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" TIT A TSTIO " IDIS-AISTEIR
HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE Ji^"
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
It
SIXTY-vSECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECJC
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART I
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
Unitsd STA'Psa Sbnatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman.
OEOROE C. PERKINS, Oalifomia. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oragon. FRANCIS G. NEWLANDS, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W« M. McKlNSTRTf Clerk,
n
n np %
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Pag*.
Cottun, Harold Thomae 95
Crawford, Alfred HI
Iflmay, J. Bruce 2
UghtoUer, Gharlee Herbert 46
Marconi, Guglielmo 37
Ro8tzt>n, Capt. Arthur Henry 18
ni
"TITANIC DISASTER
FBZDAY, APBIL 19, 1019.
Subcommittee of the Commtttbe ok Commbbob,
Unitbd States Senate,
New York, N. T.
The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senator William Alden Smith, chairman, and Senator
Francis G. Newlands.
Present also: Mr. George Uhler, Supervising Inspector General,
Steamboat-Inspection Service, Department of Commerce and Labor;
Mr. J. Bruce Ismay, general manager of the International Mercantile
Marine Co.; Charles C. Biu-lin^ham, Esq., and J. Parker Kirlin, Esq.,
representing the White Star Line; Emerson E. Parvin, Esq., secre-
tary International Mercantile Marine Co.; Guglielmo Marconi, presi-
dent of the Marconi Wireless Tel^aph Co. ; Hon. John W. Griggs,
representing the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Co., and others.
Senator SMrm. For the purpose of executing the command and
direction of the Senate of the United States, the inquiry which we con-
template will now begin. The resolution is as follows:
In thb Sbnatb of the Unitbd Statbb,
April 17, 191t.
Rewolved, That the Committee on Commerce, or a subcommittee thereof, is hereby
Mitfaorized and directed to investigate the causes leading to the wreck of the White
Star liner Titaruie, with its attendant loss of lUe so shockmg to the civilized world.
Ruohfed further ^ That said committee or a subcommittee thereof is hereb v empowered
to sammon witnesses, send for persons and papers, to administer oaths, and to take such
testimony as may be necessary to determme the responsibility therefor, with a view
tt> such legislation as may be necessary to prevent, as far as possible, any repetition
of such a aisBster.
Retolvedfwrthgr, That the committee shall inquire particularly into the number of
life boats, Life mfts, and life preservers, and other equipment for the protection of the
passengers and crew; the number of persons aboara tne Titanic^ wnether passenger
or crew, and whether adequate inspections were made of such vessel, in view of the
laige number of American passengers traveling over a route commonly regarded as
dangerous from icebergs; and wheUier it is feasible for Congress to take steps looking
to an international agreement to secure the protection of sea traffic, including regulation
of the size of ships and designation of routes.
Ruolud further. That in the report of said committee it shall recommend such leg-
idatkm as it shall deem expedient; and the expenses incurred by this investigation
Aall be paid' from the contingent fund of the ^nate upon vouchers to be approved
by the cnairman of said committee.
Attest: Charles G. Bbnnbtt, Secretary.
By H. M. RosB, AuiHant Secretary.
I will ask Mr. J. Bruce Ismav to come forward and take the stand
1
2 ** TIIAinO " DIBASXBB.
TESTUOVT OF TO. J. BBXTCE ISXAT.
Mr. J. Bruce Ismay, being duly sworn by the chairman, testified as
follows:
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, for the purpose of simplifying this hear-
ing, I will ask you a few preliminary questions.
First state your full name, please.
Mr. Ismay. Joseph Bruoe Ismay.
Senator Smith. And your place of residence ?
Mr. Ismay. Liverpool.
Senator Smith. Aiid your age?
Mr. IsBiAY. I shall be SO on the 12th of December.
Senator Smith. And your occupation ?
Mr. Ismay. Ship owner.
Senator Smith. Are you an officer of the White Star Line !
Mr. IfiMAY. I am.
Senator Smith. In what capacity ?
Mr. Is!may. Managing director.
Senator Smith. As such officer were you officially designated to
make the trial trip of the Titanic ?
Mr. Ismay. No.
Senator Smith. Were you a voluntary passenger ?
Mr. IslCAY. A voluntary passenger; yes.
Senator Smith. Where did you board the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. At Southampton.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Ismay. I think it was at 9.30 in the morning.
Senator Smith. Of what day f
Mr. Ismay. The 10th of April.
Senator Smith. The port of destination was New York?
Mr. Ismay. New YorK.
Senator Smith. Will you kindly tell the committee the circum-
stances surrounding your voyage, and, as succinctly as possible,
beginning with your going aboard the vessel at Liverpool, your place
on the smp on the voyage, toother with any circumstances you feel
would be helpful to us in this mquiry?
Mr. Ismay. In the first place, I would like to express my. sincere
grief at this deplorable catastrophe.
I understand that you gentlemen have been appointed as a com-
mittee of the Senate to inquire into the circumstances. So far as we
are concerned, we welcome it. W^ court the fullest inquiry. We
have nothing to conceal; nothing to hide. The ship was built in
Belfast. She was the latest thing in the art of shipbuUding; abso-
lutely no monev was spared in her construction. Sne was not built
by contract. She was simply built on a commission.
She left Belfast, as far as I remember — I am not absolutely clear
about these dates — I think it was on the 1st of April.
She underwent her trials, which were entirely satisfactory. She
then proceeded to Southampton, arriving there on Wednesday.
Senator Smith. Will you describe the trials she went through ?
Mr. Ismay. I was not present.
She arrived at Southampton on Wednesday, the 3d, I think, and
sailed on Wednesday, the 10th. She left Southampton at 12 o'clock.
ti ^^ ^_L 99
Tssujnc ' jNouassB. ft
She arrived in Cherbouig that eyemng, having run over at 68 revo-
lutions.
We left Cherbou^ and proceeded to QueenstOTim. We arrived
there, I think, about midday on Thursday.
We ran from Cherbourg to Queenstown at 70 revolntions.
After embarking the mails and passengers, we ptroceeded at 70
revolutions. I am not absolutely clear what the first day's run was,
whether it was 464 miles or 484 miles. '^>^
The second day the number of revolutions was increased. I think
the number of revolutions on the second day was about 72. I think
we ran on the second day 519 miles.
The third day the revolutions were increased to 75, and I think
we ran 546 or 649 miles.
The weather during this time was absolutely fine, with the excep-
tion, I think, of about 10 minutes' fog one evening.
The accident took place on Sunday night. What the exact time
was I do not know. I was in bed myself, asleep, when the accident
happened.
Tiie ship SMik, I am told, at 2.20.
That, sir, I think is all I can tell you.
I understand it has been stated that the ship was going at full
speed. The ship never had been at full speed. The full speed of
tne ship is 78 revolutions. She works up to 80. So far as I am
aware, she never exceeded 75 revolutions. She had not all her
boilers on. None of the single-ended boilers were on.
It was our intention, if we had fine weather on Monday afternoon
or Tuesday, to drive the ship at full speed. That, owing to the
imfortunate catastrophe, never eventuated.
Senator Smtth. WiU you describe what you did after the impact
or collision t
Mr. ISMAT. I presume the impact awakened me. I lay in bed for
a moment or two afterwards, not realizing, probably, what had hap-
pened. Eventually I got up and walked along the passagewav and
met one of the stewards, and said, ^'What has happened? He
said, "I do not know, sir."
I then went back into my room, put mv coat on, and went up on
the bridge, where I found Capt. Smith. 1 asked him what had hap-
pened, and he said, ''We have struck ice." I said, ^'Do you think
the ship is seriously damaged f" He said, ''I am afraid she is."
I then went down below, I think it was, where I met Mr. Bell, the
chief engineer, who was in the main companionway. I asked if he
thought the ^p was seriouslv damaged, and he said he thought she
was, but was quite satisfied the pumps would keep her afloat.
I think I went back onto the bridge. I heard the order given to
get the boats out. I walked along to the starboard side of the ship,
where I met one of the officers. 1 told him to get the boats out
Senator SHrra. What officer?
Mr. IsMAT. That I could not remember, sir.
I assisted, as best I could, getting the boats out and putting the
women and chUdren into the boats.
I stood upon that deck practicallv until I left the ship in the star-
board collapsible boat, which is the last boat to leave the ship, so far
as I know. More than that I do not know.
'' TTTAKIC '^ DI8ASTSB.
Senator Smith. Did the captain remain on the bridge ?
Mr. IsMAY. That I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you leave him on the bridge ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. His first statement to you was that he felt she
was seriously damaged ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the next statement of the chief engineer was
what?
Mr. Ism AY. To the same effect.
Senator Smith. To the same effect ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. But that he hoped the pumps might keep her
afloat ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
^ Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with any officer other
than the captain or the chief engineer and the steward that you met ?
Mr. IsMAY. Not that I remember.
Senator Smith. Did the officers seem to know the serious character
of this collision ?
Mr. IsMAY. That I could not tell, sir, because I had no conversa-
tion with them.
Senator Smith. Did any officer say to you that it evidently was
not serious ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. All the officers with whom you talked expressed
the same fear, saying that it was serious %
Mr. IsMAY. I did not speak to any of them, sir.
Senator Smith. Except the captain %
Mr, IsMAY. Except the captain and the chief engineer. I have
already stated that I had spoken to them; but to no other officer
that I remember.
Senator Smith. You went to the bridge immediately after you
had returned to your room %
Mr. IsMAY. After I had put on' my coat I went up to the bridge.
Senator Smith. And you found the captain there %
Inb*. IsMAY. The captain was there.
Senator Smtth. In what part of the ship were your quarters ?
Mr. IsMAY. My quarters were on B deck, just dit of the main com-
panionway.
Senator Smith. I wish you would describe just where that was.
Ml, IsMAY. The sun deck is the upper deck of all. Then we have
what we call the A deck, which is the next deck, and then the B deck.
Mr. Uhleb. The second passenger deck %
Mr. IsMAY. We carry very few passengers on the A deck. I think
we have a diagram here that will show you these decks. Here it is,
and there is tlTe room I was occupying [i^idicating on diagram].
Senator Smith. What is the number of that room ?
Mr. IsMAY. B-52 is the room I had.
Senator Smith. You had the suite ?
Mr. IsMAY. I had the suite; I was sleeping in that room [indicating
on diagram], as a matter of fact.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there were any passengers
on that deck?
" TTTAKIC " DI8ABTEB. 5
Mr, IsMAY. I have no idea. sir.
Senator Smith. You say that the trip was a voluntary trip on
TOUT part ?
Mr. IsMAT. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. For the purpose of viewing this ship in action, or
M vou have some business in New York ?
Mr. IsMAT. I had no business to bring me to New York at all. I
amply came in the natural course of events, as one is apt to, in the case
of a new ship, to see how she works, and with the idea of seeing how
we could improve on her for the next ship which we are building.
Senator Smith. Were there any other executive officers of the
eoinpany aboard ?
Mr. IsMAT. None.
Senator SMrrn. Was the inspector or builder on board ?
Mr. IsMAY. There was a representative of the builders on board.
Senator Smfth. Who was he ?
Mr. IsMAY. Mr. Thomas Andrews.
Senator Smith. In what capacity was he ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not quite follow you.
Senator Smith. What was the occasion for his coming to make this
tiialtiip?
Mr. Ibmay. As a representative of the builders, to see that every-
thing was working satisfactorily, and also to see how he could improve
the next ship.
Senator Smith. Was he a man of large experience ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes:
Senator Smith. Had he had part in the construction of this ship
himself?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was he among the survivors ?
Mr. LsMAY. Unfortunately, no.
Senator Smith. How old a man was he i
Mr. Lsmay. It is difficult to judge a man's age, asyou know, but I
should think he was perhaps 42 or 43 years of age. H!e may have been
less. I really could not say.
Senator Smith. Then, you were the only executive officer aboard
rq)resenting your company, aside from the ship's customary com-
plement of omcers ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou have occasion to consult with the captain
(boat the movement of the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. Never.
Senator Smith. Did he consult you about it t
Mr. Ismay. Never. Perhaps I am wrong in saying that. I should
Kke to say this: I do not know that it was quite a matter of consulting
hnn about it, or of his consulting me about it, but what we had ar-
M2ed to do was that we would not attempt to arrive in New York
at tae li^tship before 5 o'clock on Wednesday morning.
Senator Smith. Hiat was the understanding ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes. But that was arranged before we left Queens-
town.
Senator Smith. Was it supposed that you could reach New York
at that time without putting the ship to its full running capacity 'i
6 '^ TITAlfIC '' DIBASMB.
Mr. IsMAY. Oh, yes, sir. There was nothing to be gained by arriv-
ing at New York any earlier than that.
Senator Smith, x ou spoke of the revolutions on the early part of
the voyage.
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Those were increased as the distance was increased^
M^. ISMAT. The TiJtanic being a new ship, we were gradually work-
ing her up. When you bring out a new snip you naturally do not
staart her running at full speed until you get everything working
smoothly and satisfactorily down below.
Senator Smith. Did I understand you to say that she exceeded
70 revolutions?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; she was going 75 revolutions on Tuesday.
Senator Smith. On Tuesday?
Mr. Ismay. No; I am wrong — on Saturday. I am mixed up as to
the days.
Senator Smith. The dav before the accident?
Mr. IsMAY. The day before the accident. That, of course, is noth-
ing near her full speed.
Senator Smith. During the voyage, do you know, of your own
knowledge, of your proximity to icebergs?
Mr. IsMAY. Did I know that we were near iceb^gs ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not. I know ice had been reported.
Senator Smith. Ice had been reported ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you personally see any icebergs, or any large
volume of ice ?
Mr. IsMAY. No ; not until after accident.
Senator Smith. Not until after the wreck ?
Mr. IsMAY. I had never seen an iceberg in my life before.
Senator Smith. You never saw one before.
Mr. IsBCAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been on this so-called northern route
before ?
Mr. Ismay. We were on the southern route, sir.
Senator Smith. On this Newfoundland route ?
Mr. Ismay. We were on the long southern route; not on the north-
em route.
Senator Smith. You w«re not on the extreme northern route ?
Mr. Ismay. We were on the extreme southwn route for the west-
bound ships.
Senator Smith. What was the longitude and latitude of this ship !
Do you know?
Mi. Ismay. That I could not t^U you ; I am not a sailor.
Senator Smith. Were you cognizant of your proximity to iceb^gB
at all on Saturday ?
Mr. Ismay. On Saturday ? No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about a wireless message
from the America to the Titanic
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Saving that the America had encountered ice in
that latitude ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir
" TITAKIO " DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. Were you aware of the proximity of icebergs on
Sunday ?
Mr. Ism AT. On Sunday ? No; I did not know on Sunday, I knew
that we would be in the ice region that night sometime.
Senator Smith. That you would be, or were?
Mr. IsMAT. That we would be in the ice region on Sunday night.
Senator Smith. Did you have any consultation with the captain
regarding the matter ?
Mr. I^iAT. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. Or with any other officer of the ship ?
Mr. IsMAT. With no officer at all, sir. It was absolutely out of
my province. I am not a navigator. I was simply a passenger on
board the ship.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about the working of the
wireless service on this ship ?
Mr. IsMAT. In what way? We had wireless on the ship.
Senator Smith. Had ^rou taken any imusual precaution to have a
reserve power for this wireless ?
Mr. IsMAT. I believe there was, but I have no knowledge of that
myself.
Senator Smith. Do you know how long the wireless continued to
operate after the blow or collision ?
Mr. Ism AT. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Did you, at any time, see the operator of the
wireless ?
Mr. IsMAT. I did not.
Senator Smith. Did you attempt to send any messages yourself ?
Mr. IsMAT. I did not.
Senator Smffh. Were you outside on the deck, or on any deck,
when the order was given to lower the lifeboats ?
Mr. IsMAT. I heard Capt. Smith give the order when I was on the
bridge.
Senator Smith. You heard the captain give the order ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you tell us what he said.
Mr. IsMAT. It is very difficult for me to remember exactly what
was said, sir.
Senator SMrm. As nearly as you can.
Mr. IsMAT. I know I heard him give the order to lower the boats.
I think that is all he said. I think he simply turned around and gave
the order.
Senator Smith. Was there anything else said, as to how they should
be manned or occupied ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir; not that I heard. As soon as I heard him give
the order to lower the boats, I left the bridge.
Senator Smith. You left the bridge ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes. •
Senator Smith. Did you see any of the boats lowered ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. IsMAT. Certainlv three.
Senator Smith. Will you tell us, if you can, how they were lowered ?
Mr. IsMAT. They were swung out, people were put into the boats
from the deck, and then they were simply lowered away down to the
water.
8 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Were these lifeboats on the various decks ?
Mr. IsMAY. They were all on one deck.
Senator Smith. On what deck ?
Mr. IsBiAY. On the sun deck; the deck above this [indicating on
diagram]. I do not think it is shown on this plan.
^nator Smith. That is, the second deck above yours ? - '^
Mr. Ismay. On this deck here, on the big plan [indicating].
Senator Smith. On the sun deck t
Mr. Ismay. Yes; on what we call the sun deck or the boat deck.
Senator Smith. They were on the boat deck, which would be the
upper deck of all ?
^ Mr. Ismay. The upper deck of all, yes.
Senator Smith. Was there any order or supervision exercised by
the officers of the ship in loading these lifeboats ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell just what that was.
Mr. Ismay. That I could not say. I could only speak from what I
saw for myself.
Senator Smith. That is all I wish you to do.
Mr. Ismay. The boats that were lowered where I was were in
charge of the officer and were filled and lowered away.
Senator Smith. They first put men into the boats for the purpose
of controlling them ?
Mr. Ismay. We put in some of the ship's people.
Senator Smith. Some of the ship's people ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Ismay. That I could hot say.
Senator Smith. About how many ?
Mr. Ismay. I could not say.
Senator Smith. About three or four?
Mr. Ismay. The officer who was there will be able to give you that
information, sir. My own statement would be simply guesswork.
His statement would be reUable.
Senator Smith. In the boat in which you left the ship how many
men were on board ?
Mr. Ismay. Four.
Senator Smith. Besides yourself ?
Mr. Ismay. I thought you meant the crew.
Senator Smith. I did mean the crew.
Mr. Ismay. There were four of the crew.
Senator Smith. What position did these men occupy ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Were any of them officers?
Mr. Ismay. No.
Senator Smith. Or seamen?
Mr. Ismay. I believe one was a quartermaster.
Senator Smith. One was a quartermaster?
Mr. Ismay. I believe so, but I do not know.
Senator Smith. You saw three of the boats lowered yourself ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. And throe of thorn loaded?
Mr. Ismay. Yos.
'* TITANIC " DISA8TEE. 9
Senator Smith. As they were loaded, was any order given as to
how they should be loaded ?
Mr. IsMAY. No.
Senator Smith. How did it happen that the women were first put
aboard these lifeboats ?
Mr. Ism AT. The natural order would be women and children first.
Senator Smith. Was that the order ?
Mr. IsMAY. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. That was followed ?
Mr. IsMAY. As far as practicable.
Senator Smith. So far as you observed ?
Mr. IsMAY. So far as I observed.
Senator Smith. And were all the women and children accommo-
dated in these lifeboats ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. How many passengers were in the lifeboat in which
you left the ship f
Mr. Ism AY. I should think about 45.
Senator Smith. Forty-five ?
Mr. IsMAY. That is my recollection.
Senator Smith. Was that its full capacity ?
Mr. IsMAY. Practically.
Senator Smith. How about the other two boats ?
Mr. IsMAY. The other three, I should think, were fairly loaded up*
Senator Smith. The three besides the one you were in 1
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith i They were fairly well filled ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was there any struggle or jostling?
Mr. IsMAY. I saw none.
Senator Smith. Or any attempts by men to get into the boats?
Mr. IsMAY. I saw none.
Senator Smith. Were these women passengers designated as they
went into the lifeboat ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Those that were nearest the lifeboat were taken in t
Mr. IsMAY. We simply picked the women out and put them in the
boat as fast as we could.
Senator Smith. You picked them from amon^ the throng?
Mr, IsMAY. We took the first ones that were there and put them in
the lifeboats. I was there mvself and put a lot in.
Senator Smith. You helped put some of them in yourself?
Mr. IsMAY. I put a great many in.
Senator Smith. Were children shown the same consideration as the
women ?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. Did you see any lifeboat without its complement
of oarsmen ?
Mr. IsMAY. I did not.
Senator Smith. Did you see the first lifeboat lowered?
Mr. IsMAY. That I could not answer, sir. I saw the first lifeboat
lowered on the starboard side. What was going on on the port side
I have no knowledge of.
10 TSTAKIO DI846TBE.
Senator Smith. It has bean intimated, Mr. Ismay, that the first
lifeboat did not contain the necessary number of men to man it.
Mr. IsMAY. As to that I have no knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. And that women were oluiged to row the boat.
Mr. Hughes. That is the second lifeboat. Senator.
Senator Smith. The second lifeboat; and that women wer^ obliged
to row that boat from 10.30 o'clock at night until 7.30 o'clock the
next morning.
Mr. IsMAY. The accident did not take place until H
Senator Smith. Well, from after 1 1 .30 o clock at night until between
6 and 7 o'clock the next morning.
Mr. IsMAY. Of that I have no Knowledge.
Senator Smith. Until the CarpcUkia overtook them. You have no
knowledge of that ?
Mr. Ismay. Absolutely none, air.
Senator Smith. So far as your observation went, would you say
that was not so ?
Mr. IsMAY. I would not say either yes or no; but I did not see it.
Senator Smith. When you first went on to the deck, you were only
partially clothed ?
Mr. IsMAY. That is all, sir.
Senator Smith. And, as I understand, you went asfar as to encounter
an officer or steward ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir. *
Senator Smith. And then returned }
Mr. Ismay. That is right.
Senator Smith. How long were you on the ship after the collision
occurred ?
Mr. Ismay. That is a very difficult question to answer, sir. Prac-
ticaUy until the time — almost until she sank.
Senator Smith. How long did it take to lower and load a lifeboat t
Mr. Ismay. I could not answer that.
Senator Smith. Can you approximate it ?
Mr. Ismay. It is not possible for me to judge the time. I could not
answer that.
Senator Smith. Were you on the Titanic an hour after the colli-
sion?
Mr. Ismay. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. How much longer ?
Mr. Ismay. I should think it was an hour and a quarter.
Senator Smith. An hour and a quarter ?
Mr. Ismay. I should think that was it; perhaps longer.
Senator Sbhth. Did you, during this time, see any of the passen-
gers that you knew ?
Mr. Ismay. I really do not remember; I saw a great manv passen<-
fers, but I do not think I paid much very attention to who tney were,
do not remember recognizing any of them.
Senator Smfth. Did you know Charles M. Hayes ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know of the presence of other Americans
and Canadians of prominence?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; I knew Mr. Hayes was on board the ship.
Senator Smith. You knew he was on the ship ?
Mr. IsBiAY. Yes; I have known him for some years.
4i — ..^^^^ >9
TIT4KI0 X>ISA8XEB. 11
Senftlor Smith. But jou did not see him after the aecident
occuiredl
Mr. IsMAY. I never saw him after the accident; no.
Seoator Smith. And he is unaccounted for }
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. He was not among the saved ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator SMrrH. What were the circumstances, Mr. Ismay, of your
departure from the ship ?
Mr. IsMAT. In what way %
Senator Smith. Did the last boat that you went on leave the ship
from some point near where you were?
Mr. IsMAT. I was immediately opposite the lifeboat when she left.
Senator Smith. Immediately opposite 9
Mr. IsMAT. Yes.
Senator Smith. What were the circumstances of your departure
from the ship ? I ask merely that
Mr. IsMAY. The boat was there. There was a certain number of
men in the boat, and the officer called out asking if there were any
more women, and there was no response, and there were no passengers
left on the deck.
Senator Smith. There were no passengers on the deck?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; and as the boat was in the act of being lowered
away, I got into it.
Senator Smith. At that time the Titanic was sinking ?
Mr. Ismay. She was sinking.
Senator Smith. Where did this ship collide ? Wad it a side blow ?
Mr. Ismay. I have no knowledge, myself. I can only state what I
have been told, that ishe hit the iceberg somewhere between the
breakwater and the bridge.
Senator SMrm. State that again.
Mr. Ismay. Between the breakwater and the bridge.
Senator Smith. On the starboard side 2
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see any of the men passengers on that ship
with life preservers on i
Mr. Ismay. Nearly all passengers had life preservers on.
Senator Smith. aXU that you saw ?
Mr. Ismay. All that I saw had life preservers on.
Senator Smith. All of them that you saw ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes ; as far as I can remember.
Senator Smith. Naturally, you would remember that if you saw it %
When you entered the lifeboat yourself, you say there were no
passengers on that part of the ship ?
Mr. 18MAY. None.
Senator Smith. Did you, at any time, see any struggle among the
men to get into these boats ?
Mr. Ismay. No.
Senator Smith. Was there any attempt, as this boat was being
lowered past the other decks, to have you take on more passengers ?
Mr. IsBiAY. None, sir. There were no passengers there to take on.
Senator Smith. Before you boarded the lifeboat, did you see any
of the passengers jump into the sea ?
Mr. Ismay. I did not.
a -^-...i.**^ ff
12 TITANIC DISABTEE.
Senator Smith. After jou had taken tlie lifeboat did you see any of
the passengers or crew with life-saving apparatus on them in the sea ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What course was taken by the lifeboat in which you
were after leaving the ship ?
Mr. IsMAY . We saw a light some distance off to which we attempted
to pull and which we thought was a ship*
senator Smith. Can you give the tJireetion of it ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not give that.
Senator Smith. But you saw a light \
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you attempted to pull this boat toward it ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long were you in the open sea in this lifeboat ?
Mr. IsMAY. I should think about four hours.
Senator Smith. Were there any other lifeboats in that vicinity ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. IsMAY. That I could not answer. I know there was one, be-
cause we hailed her. She had a light, and we hailed her, but got no
answer from her.
Senator Smuh. You got no answer ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rafts in the open sea f
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; none.
Senator Smith. Were there any other rafts on the Titanic that
could have been utiUzed ?
Mr. IsMAY. I believe not.
Senator Smith. Were all of the lifeboats of one type ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; there were four that are called collapsible boats.
Senator Smith. What were the others ?
Mr. IsMAY. Ordinary wooden boats.
Senator Smith. How many were there ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think there were 20 altogether.
Senator Smith. Including both designs %
Mr. IsMAY. Yes. Sixteen wooden boats and four collapsible boats,
I think. I am not absolutely certain.
Senator Smith. When you reached the Ckirpathiay was your life-
boat taken aboard the Carpathia ?
Mr. IsMAY. That I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any other lifeboats taken aboard the
Carpathia ?
Mr. IsMAY. I did not.
Senator Smith. What was the method of getting you aboard the
Carpathia ?
Mr. IsMAY. We simply walked up a Jacob's ladder.
Senator Smith. What was the condition of the sea at that time ?
Mr. IsMAY. There was a httle ripple on it, nothing more.
Senator Smith. Do you know wnether all the lifeboats that left
the Titanic were accounted for ?
Mr. IsMAY. I believe so. I do not know that of my own knowledge.
Senator Smith. I think it has been suggested that two of them
were engulfed.
Mr. IsMAY. Of that I know nothing.
<( ..w^.^*^ ff
TITAKIC PI6ASTEB. 18
Senator Smith. You would know if that were true, would you not ?
Mr. IsMAY. I have had no consultation with anybody since the
accident with the exception of one officer.
Senator Smith. Who was that ?
Mr. IsMAY. Mr. lightoUer. I have spoken to no member of the
crew or anybody since in regard to the accident.
Senator Smith. What was Mr. LightoUer's position ?
Mr. IsMAY. He was the second officer of the Titanic,
Senator Smith. How many officers of the ship's crew were saved f
Mr. IsMAY. I am told four.
Senator Smith. Can you give their names ?
Mr. IsMAY. I can not.
Senator Smith. Or their occupation ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not. The only one I know is Mr. Ldghtoller,
who was the second officer.
Senator Smith. I understand they are here.
Mr. IsMAY. I believe so; I do not know.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, what can you say about the sinking
and disappearance of the snip? Can you describe the maimer in
which she went down ?
Mr. Ismay. I did not see her go down.
Senator Smith. You did not see her go down ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How far were you from the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not know how far we were away. I was sitting
with my back to the ship. I was rowing all the time I was in the
boat. We were pulling away.
Senator Smith. You were rowing ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes; I did not wish to see her go down.
Senator Smith. You did not care to see her go down ?
Mr. Ismay. No. I am glad I did not.
Senator Smith. When you last saw her, were there indications
that she had broken in two ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you last see her!
Mr. Ismay. I really could not say. It might have been 10 minutes
after we left her. It is impossible for me to give any judgment of
the time. I could not do it.
Senator Smith. Was there much apparent confusion on board
when you saw her last ?
Mr. "Ismay. I did not look to see, sir. My back was turned to her.
I looked around once only, to see her red light — her green light,
rather.
Senator Smith. You never saw the captain again after you left
him on the bridge ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator SMrra. Did you have any message from him ?
Mr. Ismay. Nothing.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many wireless operators there
were on board the ship?
Mr, Ismay. I do not; but I presume there were two. There is
always one on watch.
vSenator Smith. Do you know whether they survived ?
40475— PT 1—12 2
14 TTTAKIO DiaASTEB.
Mr. IsMAT. I am told one of them did, but I do not know whether
it is true or not. I really have not asked.
Senator SMrrn. Were any of this crew enlisted men in the English
Navy?
. Mr. IsMAY. I do not know, sir. The ship's articles will show that.
Senator SMrrH. Can you tell us anything about the inspection, and
the certificate that was made and issued before sailing ?
Mr. IsMAY. The ship receives a board of trade passenger certificate;
otherwise she would not be allowed to carry passengers.
Senator Smith. Do vou know whether that was done ?
Mr. IsBiAY. You could not sail your ship without it; you could not
get your clearance.
Senator Smfth. Do you know whether this ship was equipped with
its full complement of lifeboats ?
Mr. IsMAY. If she had not been, she could not have sailed. She
would not have received her passenger certificate; therefore she must
have been fully equipped.
Senator Smffh. Do you know whether these lifeboats were the life-
boats that were planned for the Titanic?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not quite understand what you mean, sir. I do
not think lifeboats are ever built for the ship. Lifeboats are built to
have a certain cubic capacity.
Senator SMrrn. I unaerstand that; but I mean whether these Ufe-
boats were completed for the ship coincident with the completion of
the ship, or whether the lifeboats, or any of them, were borrowed from
the other ships of the White Star Line"?
Mr. IsMAY. They certainly would not be borrowed from any other
ship.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect whether the Ufeboat in which you
left the ship was marked with the name Titanic on the boat or on
the oars ?
Mr. IsBCAY. I have no idea. I presume oars would be marked. I
do not know whether the boat was marked or not. She was a
collapsible boat.
Senator Smith. Can you recollect whether that was so ?
Mr. IsMAY. I did not look to see whether the oars were marked. It
would be a natural precaution to take ?
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, do you know about the boiler con-
struction of the Titanict
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I do not.
May I suggest, gentlemen, if you wish any information in regard
to the construction of the ship, in any manner, shape, or form, that I
shaJl be only too pleased to arrange for one of the Harlan & Wolf's
people to come here and give you all the information you require;
the plans and everything.
Senator Smith. We are much obliged to you.
There has been some suggestion by passengers who left the ship in
lifeboats, that an explosion took place after tms collision. Have you
any knowledge on that point ?
Mr. Ismay. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. Do you think you would have known about that
if it had occurred ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes; I should. Do you mean to say before the ship
went down ?
ti ...».« ^ 99
TITANIC DISASTEE. 15
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, do you know anything about the action
of the amidship turbine; the number of revolutions?
Mr. Ism AY. No.
Mr. Uhleb. The reciprocating engines, you say, were going at 75
or 72 revolutions at one time ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Mr. Uhler. Have you any knowledge as to how many revolutions
the amidship turbine was making ?
&Ir. IsBfAY. No, sir. Those are all technical questions which can
be answered by others, if you desire.
Senator Newlands. What speed would 75 revolutions indicate?
Mr. IsMAY. I should think aoout 21 knots.
Senator Newlands. What is that in miles?
Mr. IsMAY. It is in the ratio of 11 to 13; about 26 miles, I think.
Senator Newlands. Mr. Ismay, did you have anything to do with
the selection of the men who accompanied you in the last boat?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How were they designated ?
Air. Ismay. I presume by the ofTicer who was in charge of the boat.
Senator Newlands. Who was that?
Mr. Ismay. Mr. Weyl.
Senator Newlands. And he was what officer?
Mr. Ismay. Cliief officer.
Senator Newlands. Was that done by lot or by selection ?
Mr. Ismay. I think these men were allotted certain posts.
Senator Newlands. Indiscriminately?
Mr. Ismay. No; I fancy at the time they had what they called, I
tliink, the boat's crew list. That is all arranged beforehand.
Senator Smith. Can you describe those rafts?
Mr. Ismay. There were none on board the ship.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rafts actually in service ?
Mr. IsiCAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is it customary for the White Star Line to carry
rafts?
Mr. Ismay. I beUeve in the olden days we carried rafts.
Senator Smith. Recently that has not been done ?
Mr. Ismay. Not in the recent ships; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Why?
&tr. Ismay. I presume because they are not considered suitable.
Senator Smith. Do you know what water capacity there was on
that ship ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not, sir.
Senator Smith. I mean, when she was stove in, what was the
capacity of the water-tight bulkheads ?
Mr. fsMAY. I beg your pardon, sir. I misunderstood your question.
The ship was especially constructed to float with two compart-
ments full of water.
Senator Smith. She was constructed to float with two compart-
ments full of water ?
Mr. IsMAY. The ship was specially constructed so that she would
float with any two compartments full of water. I think I am right
m saying that there are very few ships — ^perhaps I had better not
.J
16 TITANIC DISABTEB.
say that, but I will continue, now that I have begun it — I believe
there are very few ships to-day of which the same can be said.
When we built the Titanic we had that especially in mind. If
this ship had hit the iceberg stem on, in all human probability she
would have been here to-day.
Senator Smith. If she had hit the iceberg head on, in all prob-
ability she would be here now ?
Mr. IsMAY. I say in all human probabiUty that ship would have
been afloat to-day.
Senator Newlands. How did the ship strike the iceberg?
Mr. IsMAT. From information I have received, I think she struck
the iceberg a glancing blow between the end of the forecastle and
the captain's bridge, just aft of the foremast, sir.
Senator Smith. I understood vou to sav a little while ago that
you were rowing, with your bacK to the ship. If you were rowing
and going away from the ship, you would naturafly be facing the
ship, would you not ?
Mr. Ism AY. No; in these boats some row facing the bow of the boat
and some facing the stem. I was seated with my back to the man
who was steering, so that I was facing away from the ship.
Senator Smh^. You have stated that the ship was specially con-
structed so that she could float with two compartments filled with
water?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is it your idea, then, that there were no two com-
partments left entire ?
Mr. IsMAY. That I can not answer, sir. I am convinced that more
than two compartments were filled. As I tried to explain to you last
night, I think the ship's bilge was ripped open.
Senator Newlands. The ship had 16 compartments?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not answer that, sir.
Senator Newlands. Approximately ?
Mr. IsMAY. Aoproximately. That information is absolutely at
your disposal. Our shipbuilders will give it to you accurately.
Senator Newlands, She was so built that if any two of these com-
partments should be filled with water she would still float ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; if any two of the largest compartments were
filled with water she would still float.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, what time did you dine on Sunday
evening ?
Mr. Ismay. At 7.30.
Senator Smith. With whom?
Mr. Ismay. With the doctor.
Senator Smith. Did the captain dine with you ?
Mr. Ismay. He did not, sir.
Senator Smith. When you went to the bridge after this collision,
was there any ice on the decks ?
Mr. Ismay. I saw no ice at all, and no icebergs at all until daylight
Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any people were injured or
killed from ice that came to the decks ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not, sir. I heard ice had been found on the decks,
but it is only hearsay.
ii »»..«^*^ 9f
utakic disasteb. 17
Senator Smith. I think I asked you, but in oase it appears that I
have not, I will ask you again: Were all of the women and children
saved?
Mr. IsHAT. I am afraid not, sir.
Senator SMrra. What proportion were saved ?
Mr. IsMAT. I have no idea. I have not asked. Since the accident
I have made very few inquiries of any sort.
Senator Smith. Did any of the collapsible boats sink, to your
knowledge, after leaving the ship ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. What was the full equipment of lifeboats for
a ship of this size ?
Mr. IsMAT. I could not tell you that, sir. That is covered by the
board of trade regulations. She may have exceeded the board of
trade regulations, lor all I know. I could not answer that question.
Anvhow, she had sufficient boats to obtain her passenger certificate,
and therefore she must have been fully boated, according to the
requirements of the English Board of Trade, which I understand are
accepted by this country. Is not that so, General ?
Mr. Uhler. Yes.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, did jou in any manner attempt to
influence or interfere with the wireless communication between the
Carvathia and other stations ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir. I think the captain of the Carpaihia is here,
and he will probably tell you that I was never out of my room from
the time I got on board the Carpaihia until the ship docked here last
ni^t. I n3ver moved out of the room.
Senator Smith. How were you dressed? Were you completely
dressed when you went into the lifeboat ?
Mr. Ismay. I had a suit of pajamas on, a pair of slippers, a suit of
clothes, and an overcoat.
Senator Smith. How many men, officers and crew, were there on
this boat?
Mr. IsMAT. There were no officers.
Senator Smith. I mean the officers of the ship.
Mr. IsMAT. How many officeis were there on the ship?
Senator Smith. Yes : and how many in the crew ?
Mr. IsMAT. I think there were seven officers on the ship.
Senator Smh'H. And how many in the crew ?
Mr. IsMAT. I do not know the fuU number of the crew. There
were seven officers — oi nine officers; there are always three officers
on watch.
Senator Smith. And how many men were in the lifeboat with you ?
ilr. Ismay. Oh, I could not tell. I suppose nine or ten.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not. Mr. Carter, a passenger, was one. I do not
know who the others were; third-class passengers, I think. In fact,
all the people on the boat, as far as I could see, wore third-class
passengers.
Senator Smith. Did they all survive, and were they all taken
aboard the Carpaihia 1
Mr. Ismay. They all survived, yes.
18 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. You have indicated your willingness to supply the
committee with any data or information that may be necessary re*
garding the construction and equipment of this vessel ?
Mr. IsBiAT. Any information or any data the committee may wish
is absolutely at their disposal.
Senator omith. And you have indicated your willingness to meet
our full committee ?
Mr. IsHAT. At any time you wish^ sir.
Senator Smith. Alid I suppose that includes the surviving officers?
Mr. IsMAT. Certainly, sir. Anybody that you wish is absolutely
at your disposal.
Senator omtth. What are your own immediate plans ?
Mr. IsMAY. I understand tnat depends on you.
Senator Smith. I thank you, in hehalf of my associates and myself,
for responding so readily tnis morning, and for your statements; ana
I am going to ask you to hold yourself subject to our wishes during the
balance oi the day.
For the convenience of the captain of the Carpathia I am goizig ta
call him at this time.
Mr. IsMAY. I am entirely at your disposal at any time, sir. ^
Senator Smith. The committee has decided to call the captain of
the Carpathia as the next witness.
TESTIMONT OF CAPT. AKTHUB HENBT BOSTBOV.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Please give your full name and address.
Mr. RosTRON. Arthur Henry Rostron, Woodville, Victoria Road,
Crosby, Liverpool. ,
Senator Smith. What is your business, Captain ?
Mr. Rostron. Seaman. \
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in the business t
Mr. Rostron. Twenty-seven years.
Senator Smith. What positions have you filled ?
Mr. Rostron. Every rank in the merchant service up to captain.
Senator Smith. In what companies or on what lines ?
Mr. Rostron. First of all I was two years as cadet on the training
ship Conway in the Mersey, Liverpool, after which I went under safl
as an apprentice with Williams & Mill^an's ships. I was an appren-
tice for tW yea«, after which I was aecond mate, after pasa&i my
examinations. Then, after getting my mate's certificate, I went as
mate on another sailing ship. Then 1 passed for extra master and
joined the Cunard Steamship Co. in 1895.
Senator Smith. You are now captain of the Carpathia ?
Mr. Rostron. I am now captain of the Carpathia f Cunard Line.
Senator Smith. How long have you been captain of the Carpathia 1
Mr. Rostron. My appointment on the Carpathia dates from the
18th of January.
Senator Smith. Of this year ?
Mr. Rostron. Of this year; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you captain of any other vessel ?
Mr. Rostron. The whole of last year, from the 1st of January of
last year, I was captain of the Penonia.
Senator Smith. Of the same line ?
it ..^..^.^ 9f
TITANIC BISASTEB. 28
Mr. RosTBON. Of the same line. Previous to that I was \ces8arj
of seTeral other smaller cargo boats rumiing between Liverpou^ast,
the Mediterranean.
Senator Smith. What day did you sail with the Carpathia from Nev.
York last ?
Mr. RosTBON. The 11th of April.
Senator Smith. And where were you headed ?
Mr. RosTBON. We were bound for Liverpool, Genoa, Naples,
Trieste^ and Fiume.
Senator Smith. How many passen^rs did you have on board the
Carmsihia when you sailed from New x ork ?
Mr. RosTBON. That I am not prepared to answer, sir. I can not
give you the exact number.
Senator Smith. About how manv ?
Mr. RosTRON. One hundred ana fifty first; 50 second; and about
560 or 575, third. That is approximatelv.
Senator Sboth. Your first stop would have been Gibraltar ?
Mr. RosTRON. Gibraltar; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What time in the dav did vou leave New York?
Mr. RosTRON. At noon on Thursday.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee what occurred
after that day, as nearly as vou can, up to the present time.
Mr. Rostron. We backed out from the dock at noon on Thursday.
We proceeded down the river, the weather being fine and clear, and
we left the pilot at the pilot boat and passed the Ambrose Channel
Lightship about 2 o'clock p. m. I can not give you the exact time,
now, because, as a matter of fact, I have not looked at a single date or
time of any kind. I have not had the time to do so.
Senator Smith. I mean, approximately ?
Mr. Rostron. From that up to Sunday midnight we had fine, clear
weather, and everything was going on without any trouble cf any
kind.
At 12,35 a. m. on Monday I was informed of the urgent distress
signal from the Titanic,
Senator Smith. By whom ?
ifr. Rostron. By our wireless operator, and also by the first officer.
The wireless operator had taken the message and run with it up to
the bridge, and gave it to the first officer who was in charge, with a
junior officer witn him, and both ran down the ladder to my door
and called me. I had only just turned in. It was an urgent distress
signal from the Titanic, requiring immediate assistance and giving
me his position.
The position of the Titanic at the time was 41° 46' north, 50° 14'
vest. I can not give vou our correct position, but we were then
Senator Smith. Did you give the hour ?
Mr. Rostron. Yes, 12.35; that was our apparent time. I can
gire you the New York time, if vou would rather have it ?
Senator Smith. Yes; please do so.
Mr. Rostron. The ^S^ew York time at 12.35 was 10.45 p. m. Sun-
day night.
Immediately on getting the message, I gave the order to turn the
ship around and immediately I haa given that order I asked the
(^erator if he was absolutely sure it was a distress signal from the
Titanic. I asked him twice.
18 " TITANIC " PI8ASTEB.
SenaVor Smith. Just what was that signal ?
coinn;rlloBTRON. I did not ask him. He simply told me that he had
gardived a distress signal from the Titanxc, requiring immediate
^.4^istance, and gave me his position; and he assured me he was
'absolutely certain of the message.
In the meantime I was. dressing, and I picked up our position on
my chart, and set a course to picK up the Titanic, The course was
north 52 degrees west true 58 miles from my position.
I then sent for the chief engineer. In the meantime I was dr^sing
and seeing the ship put on her course. The chief engineer came up.
I told hitn to call another watch of stokers and make ail possible speed
to the TiianiCj as she was in trouble.
He ran down immediately and told me my orders would be carried
out at once.
After that I gave the first officer, who was in charge of the bridge,
orders to knock oflF all work which the men were doing on deck, flie
watch on deck, and prepare all our Ufeboats, take out the spare gear,
and have them all ready for turning outboard.
Immediately I had done that I sent for the heads of the different
departments, the English doctor, the purser, and the chief steward,
and they came to my cabin, and then 1 issued my orders. I do not
know whether you care to hear what my orders were exactly.
Senator Smith. Yes, sir; we would like to hear them.
Mr. RosTEON. As a matter of fact, I have them all written down
here.
We carry an English doctor, an Italian doctor, and a Hungarian
doctor. My orders were these:
English doctor, with assistants, to remain in first-class dining room.
Italian doctor, with«as8istants, to remain in second-class dining room.
Hungarian doctor, with assistants, to remain in third-class dining room.
Each doctor to have supplies of restoratives, stimulants, and everything to hand for
immediate needs of probable wounded or sick.
Purser, with assistant purser and chief steward, to receive the passengers, etc., at
different gangways, controlling our own stewards in assisting Titanic passengers to the
dining rooms, etc.; also to get Christian and surnames of all survivors as soon as poe-
Bible to send by wireless.
Inspector, steerage stewards, and master at arms to control oiu* own steerage pas*
eengers and keep them out of the third-class dining hall, and also to keep them out of
the way and oft the deck to prevent confusion.
Chiei steward: That all hands would be called and to have coffee, etc., ready to
serve out to all our crew.
Have coffee, t«a, soup, etc., in each saloon, blankets in saloons, at the gangways,
and some for the boats.
To see all rescued cared for and immediate wants attended to.
My cabin and all officials' cabins to be given up. Smoke rooms, library, etc., dining
rooms, would be utilized to accommodate the siu^ivors.
All spare berths in steerage to be utilized for Titanic's passengers, and get all our
own steerage passengers ^uped together.
Stewards to be placed in each alleyway to reassure our own passengers, should they
inquire about noise in getting our boats out, etc., or the workmg of engines.
To all I strictly enjoined the necessity for order, discipline, and quietness and to
avoid all confusion.
Chief and first oflicers: All the hands to be called; get coffee, etc. Prepare and
swing out all boats.
All gangway doors to be opened .
Electric sprays in each gan^ay and over side.
A block wilJi line rove nooKed in each gangway.
A chair sling at each gangway, for getting up sick or wounded.
Boatswains' chairs. Pilot ladders and canvas ash bags to be at each gangway, the
canvas ash bags for children.
a .■_.___ ^■■__ ff
TTTAiriC DI8ASTEB. 23
I may state the canvas and bags were of great assistance in^cessary
the infants and children aboard. ' past,
Cai^ falls with both enda clear; bowlines in the ends, and bights secured ak
flhip*8 sides, for boat ropes or to help the people up.
Heaving lines distributed along the ship's side, and gaskets handy near gangways for
lashing people in chairs, etc.
Forwwl derricks, topped and rigged, and steam on winches; also told off officers for
different stations and for certain eventualities.
Ordered company's rockets to be fired at 2.45 a. m. and every quarter of an hour
after to reassure Titanic,
This is a copy of what I am sending to our own company.
Senator SMrrH. We would like to have you leave a copy of that with
the committee, if you can.
Mr. RosTRON. I es, sir; I shall do it with pleasure.
One more thing:
As each official saw everything in readiness, he reported to me personally on th^
lMid|^ ihsLl all my orders were carried out, enumerating the same, and that everything
was in readiness.
This was at 3.45. That was a quarter of an hour before we got up
to the scene ot the disaster.
The details of all this work I left to the several officials, and I am
glad to say that they were most efficiently carried out.
Senator SMmi. I should judge from what you say that you made
19 J knots from the time you got the signal of distress from the Titanic,
until you reached the scene of the wreck or loss ?
Mr." RosTRON. No, it was 58 miles, and it took us three and a half
hours.
Mr. Uhler. From 12.35 to 3.45 ?
Mr. RosTRON. No; 3.45 is when they reported to me. I have not
got to the time of arrival at the scene of action yet.
I stopped my engines at 4 o'clock, and I was then close to the first
boat.
Senator SMmi. Just proceed, in your own wav.
Mr. RosTRON. After mterviewing the heads of the departments, I
went on the bridge and remained there. While I was up there I
made inquiries making sure that my orders were all being carried out,
and that everything possible was being done.
jft 2.40, I saw a flare, about half a point on the port bow, and
immediately took it for granted that it was the Titanic itself, and I
remarked that she must oe still afloat, as I knew we were a long way
ofiF, and it seemed so high.
However, soon after seeing the flare I made out an iceberg about a
point on the port bow, to which I had to port to keep well clear of.
knowing that the Titanic had struck ice, of course I had to take extra
care and every precaution to keep clear of anything that might look
like ice.
Between 2.45 and 4 o'clock, the time I stopped my engines, we were
passing icebergs on every side and making tnem ahead and having to
alter our course several times to clear the bergs.
At 4 o'clock I stopped.
At 4.10 I got the first boat alongside.
Previous to getting the first boat alongside, however, I saw an ice-
berg close to mcy right ahead, and I had to starboard to get out of the
way. And I picked him up on the weather side of the ship. I had
to clear this ice.
18 *' TITANIC " DI6A8TBE.
SenatfQQ (^^e scene of action now. This is 4.10 with the first boat
com^ide.
K^JVenator Smith. You are picking up these people now ?
^'* Mr. RosTRON. Yes.
Senator Smith. Please describe that in vour own way.
Mr. RosTRON. We picked up the first boat, and the boat was in
charge of an officer. I saw that he was not under full control of this
boat, and the officer sung out to me that he only had one seaman in
the boat, so I had to maneuver the ship to get as close to the boat as
possible, as I knew well it would be difficult to do the pulling. How-
ever, they got alongside, and they got them up all rignt.
By the time we nad the first boat's people it was breaking day,
and then I could see the remaining boats all around within an area
of about 4 miles. I also saw icebergs all around me. There were
about 20 icebergs that would be anywhere from about 150 to 200
feet high and numerous smaller bergs; also numerous what we call
"growlers.'' You would not call them bergs. They were anywhere
from 10 to 12 feet high and 10 to 15 feet long above the water.
I maneuvered the snip and we gradually got all the boats together.
We got aU the boats alongside and all the people up aboard by 8.30.
I was then very close to where the Titanic must have gone down^
as there was a lot of hardly wreckage but small pieces of broken-up
stuflF; nothing in the way of anything large.
At 8 o'clock the Leyland Line steamer Ualifornian hove up, and we
exchanged messages. I gave them the notes by semaphore about
the Titanic going down, and that I had got all the passengers from
the boats ; but we were then not quite sure whether we could account
for aU the boats. I told them: Think one boat still unaccounted
for." lie then asked me if he should search around, and I said^
"Yes, please." It was then 10.50.
I want to go back again, a Uttle bit.
At 8.30 aU the people were on board. I asked for the purser, and
told him that I wanted to hold a service, a short prayer of thank-
fulness for those rescued and a short burial service for those who
were lost. I consulted with Mr. Ismay. I ran down for a moment
and told them that I wished to do tms, and Mr. Ismay left every-
thing in my hands. •
I then got an Episcopal clergyman, one of our passengers, and
asked him if he would do this for me, which he did, willingly.
While they were holding the service, I was on the bridge, of course,
and I maneuvered around the scene of the wreckage. We saw noth-
ing except one body.
Senator Smith. Floating?
Mr. Rostron. Floating, sir.
Senator Smith. With a life preserver on ?
Mr. Rostron. With a life preserver on. That is the only body I
saw.
Senator Smith. Was it male or female?
Mr. Rostron. Male. It appeared to me to be one of the crew. He
was only about 100 yards from the ship. We could see him quite dis-
tinctly, and saw that he was absolutely dead. He was lyii^ on his
side like this [indicating] and his head was awash. Of course he could
not possibly have been alive and remain in that position. I did not
take him aboard. For one reason, the Titanic^ s passengers then were
if .-»..^*^ f9
TITANIC DI8A8TEB. 23
knocking about the deck and I did not want to cause any unnecessary
excitement or any more hysteria among them, so I steamed past,
tr^ng to get them not to see it.
From the boats we took three dead men, who had died of exposure.
Senator Smith. From the lifeboats ?
Mr. RosTBON. From the lifeboats; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know from which boats they were taken }
Mr. RosTBON. No, sn-; I am only dying you the general news now.
We took three dead men from the ooats, and they were brought on
board. Another man was brought up — I think he was one of the
crew — ^who died that morning about 10 o'clock, I think, and he, with
the other three, were bxuied at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Senator Smith. At sea?
Mr. RosTBON. At sea.
Senator Smith. Did they have anything on their persons by which
they could be identified ?
Mr. RosTBON. One of my own officers and the Titanic' s officers
identified the bodies, as far as possible, and took eyerything from
them that could be of the slightest clue or use. Nothmg was left
but their clothes. There was yery little taken, of course. But, as
regards details, I can not giye you much. I haye been too busy.
Senator Smith. You haye not the names of these men ?
Mr. RosTBON. We haye the names.
Senator Smith. You haye not them iiere with you ?
Mr. RosTBON. I haye not got them with me; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Were they men or women?
Mr. RosTBON. Men. There were seyeral ladies in the boats.
They were slightly injured about the arms, and things of that kind,
of course; although I must say, from the yery start, all these people
behayed magnificently. As each boat came alongside eyeryone
was calm, and they kept perfectly still in their boats. They were
quiet and orderly, and each person came up the ladder, or was pulled
up, in turn as they were tola off. There was no confiision whateyer
among the passengers. They behayed magnificently — eyery one
of them.
As they caipe aboard they were^ of course, attended to. My
instructions had already been giyen to that effect.
Senator Smith. Captain, how many lifeboats were there ?
Mr. RosTBON. We had 15 lifeboats alongside with passengers in
them.
Senator Smith. Of both types ?
Mr. RosTBON. Wait a moment, please.
There were 15 lifeboats alongsiae. We accounted for those with
passengers in them. There was one lifeboat that we saw that was
close to the ship, but it had been abandoned, because it had got
damaged, and was in a sinking condition. The officer had taken all
the people out of that lifeboat, and left it absolutely yacant. There
was no one in it. It was empty.
Senator Smfth. What type of boat was it ?
Mr. RosTBON. That was a lifeboat. It had been damaged. We
had two berthen boats.
Mr. Uhlbb. Collapsible boats ?
Mr. RosTBON. Hardly collapsible; it is a fiat raft boat, with col-
lapsible canyas sides, aoout two feet deep.
tt «.*«.. ...^^ ff
24 TITANIC DI8ASTEB.
Senator Smith. To hold how many people %
Mr. RosTBON. One of those boats woula hold 60 to 75 comfortably.
Senator Smith. How many of those were there ?
Mr. RosTBON. We accounted for two. One of these burthen boats
we found amongst the wreckage, capsized. That was three.
Senator Smith. As these boats were emptied, and the occupants
taken aboard the Carpaihia, what was done with the boats ?
Mr. Rostbon. The boats were kept alongside.
Senator Smith. Just in what shape were they left afloat, or were
they in some way taken on the decl^ ?
Mr. Rostbon. Yes. sir; I am going to tell you that now. As the
Eeople came out, we left the boats alongside. Of course lots of gear
ad been knocked out of the boats and thrown out of the way of the
people as thev were getting up; so, while th^y were holding this
service and wnile I was cruising around, I had bad all of my Doats
swung out, ready for lowering over, and while they were getting all
the people aboard from the boats, I got the spare men and some of
my officers, and swung my boats inboard again, and landed them on
their blocks and secured them, and swung the davits out again, dis-
connected the falls again, and got up the Tiiani&s boats. While I
was cruising around, I was also getting these boats up. I got seven
of the Tiianie's boats up in our davits, and six up on the forecastle
head with the forward derricks; so that is 13 boats in all.
Senator Smith. What did you do with these boats ?
Mr. RosTRON. We pulled them up in the davits.
Senator Smfth. Did you bring them into port ?
Mr. Rostbon. Yes; and last night, previous to coming into the
dock, we got some tenders off and lowered aU the boats in the water,
and these tenders took them away. Where they took them I do not
know. But we had three boats still left on the forecastle head, and
they would have been put into the dock during the day.
Senator Smith. Have you examined those boats personally ?
Mr. RosTHON. I liave only been in one or two of them; looked at
them.
Senator Smith. Can you tell from what you saw of them whether
they were marked **Titonic" ? •
sir. Rostbon. They were all marked ** Tttom^,'* as they came up.
Senator Smith. Were they apparently new boats ?
Mr. Rostbon. They were all brand new.
Senator Smith. They were all brand new ?
Mr. Rostbon. Yes; as far as I could see. They appeared to me
to be absolutely new boats.
Senator Smith. AQ conforming to the regulations of the British
Board of Trade ?
Mr. Rostbon. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. And as good as you would have had if you were to
specify them yourself ?
Mr. Rostbon. Quito.
Senator Smith. Did you see any bodies afloat, except as you have
described ?
Mr. Rostbon. Only one; no more— ^no o there.
Senator Smith. Did you have any information as to whether the
passengere or crew of the Titanic had made use of their Ufe preservers i
ti _.«»«^ ff
THANIO DI8A8TEB. 25
^ffr. RosTRON. I had very little opportunity of being amongst the
passengers or any of them.
To tell you the truth, I have been on the bridge, or about my duties
most of the time. I had, however, one or two conversations with
the passengers on Tuesday afternoon. That was the only time I
had anytliing to do with the people, and I heard then that all the
people on the TitaniCy as far as they could see, had Ufe belts on.
1 hey had all been supphed with hfe belts.
Senator Smith. I assume that you kept watch to see whether
there was any of these people afloat ?
Mr. RosTRON. Precisely. I was cruising all around the vicinity
of the disaster.
Senator Smith. How long did you cruise around there ?
Mr. RosTRON. In the actual vicinity of the disaster ?
Senator SMrni. Yes.
Mr. RosTRON. Half an hour.
Senator Smith. During that time was there a swirl or any unnatural
condition of the sea ?
Mr. RosTRON. Nothing whatever. The wind and sea were then
beginning to get up. There was a moderate breeze blowing then, and
a little s&p or the sea.
Senator Smith. Have you any idea how much depth of water there
was about that point t
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; about two thousand and odd fathoms.
Senator Smith. Two thousand and odd fathoms ?
Mr. Rostron. Yes; I looked on the chart.
Senator Smith. Have you concluded that you did not see the ill-
fated ship at all ?
Mr. Rostron. Oh, no; we arrived an hour and a half after she went
down; after the last of her was seen.
Senator Smith. What was the last message you had from the ship t
Mr. Rostron. ''Engine room nearly full.
Senator Smith. "Engine room nearly full?''
Mr. Rostron. Yes.
Senator Smith. At what hour was that i
Mr. Rostron. That would have been about 1 o'clock. That would
be 25 minutes after.
Senator Smith. Was that all ?
Mr. Rostron. That was the last message we got. It was either
"Engine room nearly full," or "Engine room fuD, or "Engine room
filling." The exact words I could not give you. The impression was
qidte enough for me, as to the condition the ship was in.
Senator Smith. And you then told them how near you were 1
Mr. Rostron. Yes. From the very first I sent a message to the
Titanic telling them, "Coming immediately to your assistance.
Expect to arrive half past 4 — " No; it was, "Expect to arrive in
four hours," because I iiad not then got up full speed.
Senator Smith. Did you personally Imow the captain of the
Titontc?
Mr. Rostron. I knew him ; yes.
Senator Smith. How long had you known him ?
Mr. Rostron. I had met him 15 years ago. I have only met him
about three times altogether.
26 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. In your company, who is the master of a ship at sea ?
Mr. RosTRON. The captain.
Senator Smith. In absolute control ?
Mr. RosTRON. In absolute control, legal and otherwise. No one
can interfere.
Senator Smith. I suppose if this had not been so, you would not
have felt it proper to have gone off your course quite so far ?
Mr. RosTRON. Quite so.
Senator Smith. Are there prescribed routes at sea that are so
definite in their character as to be well understood by mariners ?
Mr. RosTRON. Thejr are. I may state this: That the position
given me by the Titanic was absolutely correct and she was absolutdy
on her track, bound for New York.
Senator Smith. What would you call that course, Captain, that the
Titanic was taking for New York, as to whether it would be northerly
or southerly ?
Mr. RosTRON. Oh, she was then — I forget the true course now,
but she had passed what we call the comer on the ^eat circle.
It is some years since I was in the North Atlantic trade. I have been
in the Mediterranean trade, and I have foi^otten
Mr. Uhler. He is not speaking of your compass course.
Mr. Rostron. I am givmg the true course.
Mr. Uhler. He is asking whether the Titanic was on the northerly
course or the southerly route ?
Mr. Rostron. Oh. He was on the southerly route.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Rostron. He makes a great circle on the most southerly route,
to avoid all ice, as nearly as possible. That is 42 north and 47 west.
That is what we call the first comer. That is the great circle track
from Queenstown down to the comer. From that he takes a straight
course — I forget, now, the actual course.
Senator Smith. Do you regard the route he was taking as entirely
practical and appropriate at this time of the year ?
Mr. Rostron. Quite so. This is most exceptional.
Senator Smith. Having the warning that icebergs were in that
vicinity, could he, under those circumstances, have changed his
course somewhat to avoid them?
Mr. Rostron. That is impossible for me to tell. All I know is that
he was on the track of the western bound steamers, on his proper
track, where he ought to have been.
Senator Smith. At this time of year ?
Mr. Rostron. At this time of year.
Senator Smith. Is not that the shortest route from Liverpool to
New York ?
Mr. Rostron. No ; it is the longest.
Senator Smith. The longest ?
Mr. Rostron. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What would have been the shortest *
Mr. Rostron. The shortest route is after August, if I remember
light; from September to January. From September to January,
I think, is the shortest route.
Senator Smith. But what would that be ?
Mr. Rostron. Oh, well; up north.
Senator Smith. How far north ?
** ..»..«**^ 99
TITAKIO DI8A6TEB. 27
Mr. RosTBON. It would be probably a couple of hundred miles
north.
Senator Smtth. Would you regard the course taken by the Titanic
in this trial trip as appropriate and sate and wise at this time of the
year?
iir. RosTRON. Quite so.
Senator Smtth. What would be a safe, reasonable speed for a vessel
of that size on such a course and in proximity of iceberss ?
]^ir. RosTRON. Of course I do not know the ship. I know abso-
lutely nothing about her.
Senator Smith. How would you have felt yourself about it ? Sup-
pose you had been taking that course with your sliip; how fast would
Tou have felt it prudent to go in such a situation ?
ilr. RosTBOX. I can only tell you this, gentlemen, I knew there
was ice about
Senator Smith. How did you know it ?
Mr. RosTBON. From the Titanic,
Senator Smith. From the Titanic^ a message ?
ilr. RosTROX. Precisely. He told me he nad struck ice.
Senator Smith. Did you know it any other way \
ilr. RosTROX. No, sir; that was the first intimation I had that there
was ice there.
Senator Smith. You did not know it until you saw it yourself ?
Mr. Rostrox. I knew the Titanic had struck ice. Therefore, I
was prepared to be in the vicinity of ice when I was getting near hini;
because if he had struck a berg and I was going to liis position I knew
verv well that there must be ice about. I went full speed, all we
could
Senati)r Smith. You went full speed ?
Ifr. Rostron. I did, and doubled my lookouts, and took extra
precautions and exerted extra vigilance. Every possible care was
taken. We were all on the qui vive.
Senator Smith. You had a smaller ship, however, and it would
respond more readily to a signal ?
Mr. Rostron. No.
Senator Smith. Would it not?
Mr. Rostron. No, sir; it would not. I do not maintain that, for
one moment.
Senator Smith. How many men were on the bridge, on the lookout,
so to speak, in that situation, on your ship t
Mr. Rostron. There were three officers with me: A quartermaster,
one man in the crow's nest, and two men in the eyes of the ship — ^that
is; right forward on the deck, nearer to the water than the crow's nest.
Senator Smith. Was that the ordinary complement, or did you
put them there because of that danger ?
Mr. Rostron. I put an extra lookout on forward.
Senator Smith. An extra lookout ?
Mr. Rostron. Yes; and the officer came up extra with me. I had
another officer up with me, extra. He came up voluntarily.
Senator Smith. What would be the ordinal complement?
\ii. Rostron. The ordinary complement of a nignt lookout, two
men. We keep one in the crow's nest and one in the eyes — that is,
right forward*
28 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Was there any special suffering of the Titanic^ s
passengers after they got aboard the Carpathia ?
Mr. KosTRON. I never heard of anything special. I can not give
you any medical reports, as I have not received them yet. AH I
know is that the second day, Tuesday morning, the doctor came to me
and said he was pleased to say that there was an entirely clean bill of
health.
Senator Smith. No damage, so far as you know, was done by one
to the other, and there was no trouble or difficulty ?
Mr. Rostron. No, no; none whatever. I never heard of anything
of that kind ; never.
Senator Smith. How many lifeboats do you carry on the Carpaihia ?
Mr. Rostron. We carry 20.
Senator Smith. What is their capacity 1
Mr. Rostron. I am not prepared to say at the present moment.
I can not say; I really forget.
Senator Smith. Do you carry 20 in obedience to certain regulations
of the British Board of Trade ?
Mr. Rostron. I think it is 20; yes.
Senator Smith. What is your gross tonnage ?
Mr. Rostron. Thirteen thousand six hundred tons.
Senator Smith. That is the total capacity of your ship, the tonnage t
Mr. Rostron. Thirteen thousand six hundred.
Senator Smith. What is it as to passengers ?
Mr. Rostron. I can not tell you. I have not come here with any
data. I have not looked up anything, and was absolutely unpre-
pared for any questions. I have been too busy.
Senator Smith. What did you say was the tonnage of your ship?
Mr. Rostron. Thirteen thousand six hundred tons.
Senator Smith. What was the tonnage of the Titanicf
Mr. Uhler. It was 45,629 tons.
Senator Smith. Are these regulations of the British Board of
Trade new regulations or old regulations ?
Mr. Rostron. They are of recent date.
Senator Smith. The fact that, under these regulations, you are
obliged to carry 20 lifeboats and the Titanic was only obliged to
carry 20, with her additional tonnage, indicates either that these
regulations were prescribed longj ago
Mr. Rostron (mterposing). No, sir; it has nothing to do with that.
What it has to do witn is the ship itself.
The ships are built nowadays to be practically unsinkable, and each
ship is supposed to be a lifeboat in itself. The boats are merely sup-
posed to be put on as a standby. The sliips are supposed to be built,
and the naval architects say they are, unsinkaole under certain
conditions. Wliat the exact conditions are, I do not know, as to
whether it is with alternate compartments full, or what it may be.
That is why in our ship we carry more lifeboats, for the simple reason
that we are built differently from the Titanic; differently constructed.
Senator Smith. Approximately how many passengers are pro-
vided for on the Carpathiaf I do not ask you to be accurate about
it, but approximately how many ?
Mr. Rostron. How many did we approximately provide for on the
voyage from New York ?
Mr. Uhler. Wliat is vour British allowance?
i4 ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 29
Mr. RosTRON. Two thousand two hundred third, and about 250
first and second combined.
Senator Smith. That makes 2,450. Give us your crew complement.
Mr. RosTRON. That, of course, varies. We have about 300 aboard
now.
Senator Smith. How many oflBcers ?
Mr. RosTRON. Six officers.
Senator Smith. You say the captain of a ship is vested ordinarily
with absolute control and discretion over the movements of his vessel ?
Mr. RosTRON. Absolutely. I wish to qualify that, however. By
law, t e captain of the vessel has absolute control, but suppose we
get (>* ilere from the owners of the vessel to do a certain thing and we
do not carry it out. The only thing is then that we are liable to
dismissal.
I shall give you an illustration of what I mean by that, as regards
receiving orders, and so on. When I turned back to New York, I
sent my message to the Cunard Co. telling them that I was proceeding
to New York unless otherwise ordered, i ou see what I mean there ?
I said, " For many considerations, consider New York most advisable."
Senator Smith. And you immediately reversed vour course ?
Mr. RosTRON. I came right around for New York immediately, and
returned to New York.
Would you like to know my reasons for coining back to New York ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. RosTRON. The fii-st and principal reason was that we had all
these women aboard, and I knew they were hysterical and in a bad
state. I knew very well, also, that you would want all the news pos-
sible. I knew very well, further, that if I went to Halifax, we could
get them there all right, but I did not know how many of these people
were half dead, how many were injured, or how many were really sick,
or anytliing hke that. 1 knew, also, that if we went to Halifax, we
would have the possibility of coming across more ice, and I knew very
well what the effect of that would be on people who had had the
experience these people had had. I knew what that would be the
whole time we were in the vicinity of ice. I took that into considera-
tion. I knew very well that if we went to Hahfax it would be a case
of a railway journey for these passengers, as X knew they would have
to go to New York, and there would be all the miseries of that.
Furthermore, I did not know what the condition of the weather
might be, or what accommodation I could give them in Halifax, and
that was a great consideration — one of the greatest considerations
that made me turn back.
Mr. Uhler. And the chances for fine weather were better coming
to New York than goin^ to Halifax?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Your message to your company was practically
notice that you had done this ?
Mr. RosTROX. I had done it; but that message did not get off until
Monday evening.
Senator Smith. You were then
Mr. RosTROX (interrupting). When I sent that message we had
been on our way 12 hours.
Senator Smitii. Captain, is it customary to take orders from a
director or a general officer of the company aboard?
40475— FT 1—12 3
a —- .. ^..^ 9f
80 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. RosTRON. No, sir.
Senator Smith. From whom do you take orders ?
Mr. RosTRON. From no one.
Senator Smith. Aboard ship ?
Mr. RosTRON. At sea, immediately I leave port until I arrive at
Fort, the captain is in absolute control and takes orders from no one.
have never known it in our company or any other big company
when a director or a managing owner would issue orders on that ship.
It matters not who comes on board that ship they are either passengers
or crew. There is no official status and no authority whatever with
them.
Senator Smith. You say, Captain, that you ran under a full head
of steam ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes.
Senator Smith. Toward, the Titanic 'i
Mr, RosTRON. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Would you have done so in the nighttime ?
Mr. RosTRON. It was in the nighttime. I can confess this much,
that if I had known at the time there was so much ice about, I should
not: but I was right in it then. I could see the ice. I knew I was
perfectly clear.
There is one other consideration: Although I was running a risk
with my own ship and my own passengers, I also had to consider
what I was going for.
Senator Smith. To save the lives of others ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; I had to consider the lives of the others.
Senator Smith. You were prompted by your interest in humanity ?
Mr. RosTRON. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. And you took the chance ?
Mr. RosTRON. It was hardly a chance. Of course it was a chance,
but at the same time I knew quite what I was doing. I considered
that I was perfectly free, and that I was doing perfectly right in what
I did.
Senator Smith. I suppose no criticism has been passed upon you
for it ?
Mr. RosTRON. No.
Senator Smith. In fact, I think I may say, for my associates, that
your conduct deserves the highest praise.
I^. RosTRON. I thank you, sir.
Senator Smith. And we are very grateful to you, Captain, for
coming here.
I understand it is your purpose to leave this afternoon ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; I think we sail at 4 o'clock.
Senator Smith. If we should desire to get into communication
again, what are your plans for the future ? Are you headed for the
south of Europe?
Mr. RosTRON. We go to Gibraltar. I am just going by the same
old route as before — Gibraltar, Genoa, Naples, Trieste, Fiume
Mr. Uhler. Fifty days back to New York ?
Mr. RosTRON. A httle less than that. About 43 days back. We
sail about every seven weeks.
Senator Smith. Did I ask you about the number of passengers that
died aboard ship on your way to New York ?
(t ff
TITANIO DISASTEB. 31
Mr. RosTRON. No, sir. None died on the ship, so far as I am
aware. We took three bodies from the boats, abeady dead, and the
third man who died on board from exposure, who was taken on board
from the Ufeboat, was a seaman. I am almost sure of my statement
that he was a seaman.
Senator Sboth. In the first lifeboat you say there was only one
man?
Mr. RosTRON. No; only one seaman. I think there were one or
two more men. To tell the truth, I am not quite sure how many
men there were.
Senator Smith. Were there any ofl5cers ?
Mr. RosTRON. One oflScer.
Senator Smfth. One officer and one seaman ?
Mr. RosTRON. And one seaman, yes.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
Mr. RosTRON. I can not tell vou. I can not give you the number
of any men or seamen in any of the boats, even approximately, now.
Senator Smith. These lifeboats, of course, were being propelled by
oars?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any women using these oars ?
Mr. RosTRON. There were.
Senator Smffh. In how many boats ?
Mr. RosTRON. I saw women, I think, in at least two boats rowing.
Senator Smith. How many women using the oars ?
Mr. RosTRON. In one I saw two. It is very hard to give the exact
number, because one or two of the boats were ratner crowded,
especially one boat that had got damaged and was foundering. That
boat was very crowded. I could not say how many women were
Fulling. I saw certainly two or three women pulling at the very least,
know, as a matter of fact, in one boat there were two or three women
pulling.
Senator Smith. In what boat did Mr. Ismay come ?
Mr. RosTRON. I have not the faintest idea. The first I knew that
Mr. Ismay was aboard was when we got the last boat alongside, and
were getting the last passengers aboard.
Senator Smith. You do not remember the number of seamen in
that boat ?
Mr, RosTRON. I have not the faintest idea.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the number of men in the other
boats?
Mr. RosTRON. I can give you no details of the seamen or anything
else. Remember one thing: Unless the sailors were dressed in some
distinctive uniform, I could not tell the seamen, firemen, stewards, or
passengers.
Senator Newlands. When your ship arrived in New York, were
anv of the passengers dangerously ill ?
Sir. RosTRON. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Newlands. How many died after you rescued them ?
Mr. RosTRON. None. No passengers died. Only the one seaman.
Senator Smfth. You do not know who took the lifeboats from the
Carnaffiia ?
Mr. RosTRON. No.
Senator Smith. It was probably done by the owners ?
a , 9f
32 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. RosTEON. No; I had previously to this sent a wireless to the *
White Star Line asking them to send a couple of tugboats down to |
(][uarantine to take these boats away, as I would not be able to come |
into dock with those boats up in the davits or on the forecastle head.
There were none there, and so I was worrying about these. It was a
dirty night, coming up the river last night, and I was worrying about
what I was going to do with the boats. I had the boats lowered half
way to the water, to avoid any waste of time. When we got right off
the dock, I asked them to send some tugboats out to take the boats
away, as I could not dock until they were gotten out of the way.
After that, I do not know anything about them.
Senator Smith. Some complaint has been made because the mes-
sage of the President of the United States, which was sent the Car-
pdihia, was not answered. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. RosTRON. I heard last night that there was a message about
a Maj. Butt. I asked my purser this morning if he remembers any
message coming about Maj. Butt, and he said yes, the Olympic sent
a message askmg if Maj. feutt was on board, and it was answered:
'*Not on board. That is the only thing I know about that message
of that name. I do not remember any tfiing else.
Senator Smith. Was there any attempt to communicate with the
CarpaOiia from any Government vessel ?
Mr. RosTRON. les; from the Chester. I got a message from the
Chester. The exact words of it I quite forget now; but there w^as
something in it about the President; something, as far as I remember,
about his being anxious about the passengers, if I remember right. I
was rather worried at the time, as it was foggy, and these messages
came up to me on the bridge. I had my hands full. He gave me Tiis
position and told me he was coming to take the names of the passen-
gers ,and wanted my position. So 1 answered him with my position
and asked him if he could take the passengers' names.
I told him the names of the first and second cabin passengers and
crew had already gone. I said: '*Can you take third-class names
now?'* I got a remy back: ''Yes, yes.''
Senator SMrrn. From the Chester?
Mr. RosTRON. From the Chester. Those are the two messages I
got from the Chester.
Senator Smith. Was there any attempt made by anyone to influence
you in sending or receiving wireless messages ?
Mr. RosTRON. From the very commencement I took charge of the
whole thing and issued orders that every message sent would be sent
under my authority, and no message was to be sent unless authorized
by me. My orders were: First of all, the two official messages. Tlie
two official messages were to the Cunard Co. and the White Star Co.,
as regards the accident, telling them that I had got an approximate
number of passengers aboard and was returning to New York. That
was to the White Star Co., and the other one was to our company, of
course, telling them that I was proceeding to New York unless other-
wise ordered, and considered New York the best, for many considera-
tions.
After those two messages were sent, I sent a press message to the
Associated Press, practically in the same words as I had sent to the
companies, over my signature.
ti «^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 33
Those were the three first messages that were sent. After these
messages were sent, we began sending in the names of the first-class
passengers. This was by the Olympic on Monday evening. We got
the first, and I think all the second off by the Olympic, Then we lost
touch.
Senator Smith. You lost touch?
Mr. RosTRON. We lost touch; yes.
Senator Smith. When was that ?
Mr. RosTRON. The hour I could not tell you. It was Tuesday
morning some time, very early in the morning, between 1 and 2
I think.
Senator Smith. How many operators did you have on the
Carvathia ?
^lT. RosTRON. One.
Senator Smith. Was he in constant service from the time you
received this first message from the Titanic?
Mr. RosTRON. He was constantly at his instrument,- the whole
time.
Senator Smith. How old a man is he ?
Mr. RosTRON. He is a young man. I should think he is about 25
years old.
Senator Smith. Under whose employ ?
Mr. RosTRON. The Marconi Co.
Sc^nator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. RosTRON. I can not tell you. I do not know his name.
Senator Smith. Did you know, of your own knowledge, of the
attempt of the President of the United States to communicate
directly with your ship ?
Mr. KosTRON. Absolutely not; nothing whatever of that.
Senator Smith. I gather that there was no intention whatever of
either Lmoring his message
Mr. KosTRON (interposing). My word, I hope not, sir.
Senator Smith (continuing). Or neglecting it?
Mr. RosTRON. Absolutely no intention of any such thing, sir. It
never entered the minds of anyone.
Senator Smfth. And no one attempted in any way to put a censor-
ship over the wireless service on your ship ?
Sir. RosTRON. Absolutely no censorship whatever. I controlled
the whole thing, through my orders. I said I placed official messages
first. After they had gone, and the first press message, then the
names of the passengers. After the names of the passengers and
crew had been sent my orders were to send all private messages from
the Titanic^s passengers first in the order in which they were given in
to the purser; no preference to any message.
Senator Smith, i ou picked up a message from the Califomian, did
you not?
Mr. RosTRON. No; we did not pick up a message. Wait a minute.
We knew the Califomian was about, because the operator had told
me he had heard the Califomian reply to these signals. That is all.
At 8 o'clock in the morning he nove in sight. This was at the
wreck, and I left him when I returned to New York at 8.50, I think
it was, when I put on full speed to come back. He was searching the
vicinity of the wreckage, and I left for New York.
34 TITANIC DISASTEE.
The next day I got a message from the Calif ornian saying:
Have searched position carefully up to noon and found nothing and seen no bodies.
Senator Smith. Did your wireless work right up to the time you
intended to use it last ?
Mr. RosTRON. I do not follow your question, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your wireless fail you at all ?
Mr. RosTRON. Never. The only thing is that we were not fitted
up with a long-distance installation. It is only a short-distance outfit,
for what we call ship messages, and close to land stations.
Senator Smfth. How far can you communicate ?
Mr. RosTRON. Under good conditions, 200 miles. We only reckon,
under ordinary conditions, on 150 miles. Fog, mist, haze, snow, or
any other unfavorable weather conditions make it so that we may not
get more than 90 to 100 miles.
Senator Smith. It was rather accidental, then, that you happened
to be within the radius of your instrument when you got the Tttonicf
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; we were only 58 miles away then.
Senator Smfth. It was providential ?
Mr. RosTRON. The whole thing was absolutely providential. I
will tell you this, that the wireless operator was in his cabin, at the
time, not on official business at all, but just simply listening as he was
undressing. He was unlacing his boots at the time. He had this
apparatus on his ear, and the message came. That was the whole
tmng. In 10 minutes maybe he would have been in bed, and we
would not have heard the message.
Senator Smith. It was a very remarkable coincidence.
Mr. RosTRON. It was very remarkable, and, as I say, the whole
thing was providential, as regards our being able to get tnere in time .
Mr. Uhler. You could receive from a long distance, but you could
not send a response ?
Mr. RosTRON. We can always take from a long distance, yes.
Mr. Uhler. You have a low-powered machine i
Mr. RosTRON. Yes.
Senator Smith. From what you heard from the passengers or
crew of the Titanic, do you know whether any of tnem saw the
Titanic sink finally ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; several of the passengers to whom I have
spoken saw the ship sink.
Senator Smith. Do you remember who they were ?
Mr. RosTRON. I think Mrs. Thayer was one.
Senator Smith. Mrs. J. B. Thayer?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; and her son Jack; and Mrs. Wagner.
Senator Smith. And Col. Gracie?
Mr. RosTRON. I do not remember. I do not know the names of
any of the people who were saved. I never came across them.
Senator omith. You never talked with them ?
Mr. RosTRON. I had no opportunity to do so.
Senator Smith. You were kept very busy ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Captain, how many more lifeboats could you
accommodate on the Carpathia than you nave now ?
Mr. RosTRON. Under tne present conditions, and of course if they
were ordinary lifeboats, I do not believe we could take more than six.
n .«*-.. ^,^« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 35
at the very outside. Of course, that is absolutely lumbering the
deck up, as it is.
Senator Xewlands. It would be lumbering the deck up, and you
would only have space for 26 in all ?
Mr. RosTRON. "ies.
Senator Xewlands. And that would lumber up the deck to some
extent ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes. Not the passenger decks. It has nothing to
do with the passenger decks. It would not lumber up the passenger
decks. It would be deck space that is not utilized by passengers
that would be lumbered up, not the promenade decks.
Senator Xewlands. I see. Would that additional number work
much additional inconvenience upon that deck?
Mr. RosTRON. Xo; I do not think so.
Senator Xewlands. Take the case of the Titanic^ whose tonnage
was more than three times as great as that of the Carpaihiaj which
had, I believe, the same number of lifeboats as the Carpathiaf
Mr. RosTRON. Yes, sir.
Senator Xewlands. How many additional lifeboats could that
vessel accommodate without inconvenience ?
Mr. RosTRON. I have not the faintest idea, sir, what the Titaniic
was like. I believe she is a sister ship of the Olympic. I have seen
the Olympic once, when she was at the end of our dock. I have no
idea of her construction. That is all I have seen of her.
Senator Xewlands. You think she could accommodate consider-
ably more, do you not ?
Mr. RosTRON. If she could not accommodate them she could be
made to accommodate them. If they build the ship knowing that she
is only to carry 16 lifeboats they win utilize the space otherwise.
Senator Xewlands. How do you account for the fact that the
Board of Trade of England, as the size of these ships has increased, has
not compelled an increase in the number of lifeboats? Your maxi-
mum, as I understand, is 20 boats, is it not ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes; I believe it is. But they have compelled a
different construction of the ship itself. That is where the tning has
come in.
Senator Xewlands. You regard each ship itself as a lifeboat ?
Mr. RosTRON. Yes, sir.
Senator Xewlands. That expectation was not realized in the case
of tliis ship ?
Mr. RosTRON. It has been an abnormal experience as regards the
Titanic,
Senator Smith. Have you any kind of knowledge at all regarding
the force of the impact which wrecked the Titanic?
Mr. RosTRON. I know nothing about it, sir. I have not asked any
questions about this kind of business. I knew it was not my affair,
and I had little desire to make any of the officers feel it any more
than they did. Mind you, sir. there is only this: I know nothing, but
I have heard rumors of different passengers; some will say one thing
and some another. I would, therefore, rather say nothing. I do
not know anything. From the officers I know nothing. I could give
you silly rumors of passengers, but I Imow they are not reliable, from
my own experience; so, if you will excuse me, I would prefer to say
nothing.
36 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I think that is all, Captain, and I want to thank
you for your courtesy in appearing before the committee and giving
us the information at your aisposal.
Senator Newlands. As to tne equipment of these lifeboats, what
are the requirements as to food and compass, and so on ?
Mr. RosTRON. They are all supplied w^th compass, and with w^ater
breakers and with bread tanks.
Mr. Uhler. And with mast and sail ?
Mr. RosTRON. And with mast and sail.
Mr. Uhler. And gear ?
Mr. RosTRON. And all the necessary gear.
• Senator Newlands. Do you know whether those conditions were
coniplied with with reference to these boats on the Titanic?
Mr. RosTRON. As far as I can see, yes. I can tell you this, that I
saw myseK both water and biscuits in the boats, not all, of course,
but one or two where the men were working about when we secured
them. We put them on board our ship and we had to secure them,
and under certain conditions we had to come up against the boats
and look into them, and there were two or three boats where I did see
both water and bread in the boats; and all of the boats had the bread
tanks. That I know foi certain. And they also had water breakers.
Senator Smith. We are veiy much obliged to you, Capt. Rostron.
Mr. RosTRON. You are quite welcome, sir. If there is anything
further I can do, I shall be very glad.
Senator Smith. After the recess I should like to have Mr. Marconi
appear before us for a few minutes.
Sir. Marconi. I shall be very glad to do so, Senator.
Senator Smith. And the operator.
Mr. Griggs. He will be here by 3 o'clock, Senator.
Senator Smith. That is, the operator from the Carpathia. Also
the operator from the Titanic.
Mr. Griggs. He is not able to come. I am afraid the committee
will have to go to him.
Mr. Rostron. Both his ankles and back are injured, although the
last two days he was carried up into the Marconi operating room of
the Carpathia to assist our operator all he could.
Mr. J. A. Hughes. Mr. Chairman, I want to make a brief statement.
A statement has been made in the press with reference to myself,
concerning which I wish to say this :
I received this telegram:
Huntington, W. Va.
James A. Hughes:
You are quoted in press reports declaring, following Mre. Smith's story, that Ismay
should be lynched. Please wire us, day press rate collect, 500 words, your view of
Titanic distaster.
The Advertiser.
To that I have sent this in reply:
Huntington Advertiser,
Huntington^ W. Va.:
Press reports untrue. My daughter said nothing that would bring any such state-
ment from me. I may have said, if invCiStigation showed neglect of any officer, no
punishment was too severe for him. Ismay was somewhat criticized by some for
being among the men who were rescued. My daughter had no criticism of him. The
press report will give full information as to detafis. Ismay gave what Senate com-
mittee considerea a fair statement before the "ommittee. ' He is subject to further
ti ..« ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 37
uU {ram the Senate committee. Captain of Carpathia before Senate committee
ir-iifying now. My daughter states all possible aia was given them by the captain
1 f^patkia and officers of Carpathia.
Senator Smith. We will take a recess until 3 o'clock this afternoon.
Whereupon, at 1.20 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until 3
<• V'k»ck p. ni.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
At the expiration of the recess the hearing was resumed.
Senator Smith. The inquiry will now be resumed. I wish to ask
ilr, Marconi a few questions.
STATEMEITT OF MS. GUQLIELMO MAKCOHI.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, will you give the reporter your full
lume?
Mr. Marconi. Guglielmo Marconi.
Senator Smith. State your place of residence, please.
Mr. Marconi. London, England.
Senator Smith. Your vocation ?
Mr. Marconi. Electrical engineer and chairman of the British
Marconi Co.
Senator Smith. As chairman of the British Marconi Co. have you
men employed in wireless telegraphy?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; a great number.
Senator Smith. Did you have one of your employees on the Car-
pnih\nf
Mr. M4RCONI. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wlien she went to the rescue of tlie survivors of the
Tiionicf
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was Ids name ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe it is Cottam. I only mot this man last
nijrht. I do not know how his name is spelled exactly. Cottam, I
tliink. He is here.
Senator Smith. In the establishment of the wireless service on
h(mt< of that character, is it done under the direction of your com-
pany ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is the operator responsible to voui company ?
Mr. Marconi. He is responsible in so far as tlie commercial work
gfK»< — as to accounting for messages and the general conducting of a
commercial telegraphic service.
Senator Smith. From whom does he receive instructions as to his
hours of labor and his general work in that capacity aboard ship ?
Mr. Marcoxi. From the captain, according to the exigencies of the
^nice.
Senator Smith. Have you any specific instructitms that he is
called upon to observe in the performance of his duty?
Mr. \Larconi. Yes, there are numerous instructions which are gen-
eral rules and regulations for expediting the traffic and for preventing
interference with other ships.
Senator Smith. Can you state briefly what those instructions are?
38 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Marconi. They are^ in the main, the same rules and regula.^
tions as are enacted by the International Convention on Wireless
Telegraphy.
Senator Smith. Known as the BerUn treaty ?
Mr. Marconi. Known as the Berhn treaty, to which Great Britain
is a party.
Senator Smith. The United States is not yet a party ?
Mr. Marconi. It is not yet effectively a party^ I understand.
Senator Smith. The regulations of the international convention are
tlie basis of your regulations and instructions to your men ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; absolutely.
Senator Smith. On shipboard must the operator take his instruc-
tions as to the hours of labor from the captain of the ship ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Under these instructions are you reauired to have
more than one operator on a ship making a voyage of tnis character ?
Mr. Marconi. No — it depends. If the ship is a large one, usually
two operators are supplied.
Senator SMrrn. Do you mean the supplying of two operators
depends upon the size of the sliip or upon tne character of the appa-
ratus ?
Mr. Marconi. I mean if it is a large ship Uke the Titanic, the Olym-
mc, the Mauretania, or the Lusiiania they always carry two operators,
out the smaller ships of the class or size of the Carpathia carry one.
Senator SMnn. When you refer to large or small ships, do you
refer to the matter of tonnaee or to the matter of passenger room ?
Mr. Marconi. I refer to the average number of passengers carried.
The number carried or the number for whom accommodation is
provided. We generally presume that a ship with large passenger
accomodations wUl carry a great number of passengers.
Senator Smith. Was any eifort made, to your knowledge, to in-
crease the number of operators on the ChrptUhiaf
Mr. Marconi. It was not considered necessary, and the ship-
owners did not consider it necessaiy either so far as I am aware.
Senator Smith. With what kind of wireless service or equipment
is the Carpathia provided ?
Mr. Marconi. The (hrpaihia is provided with an equipment which
I should call a short-distance equipment; it is an apparatus which
can transmit messages, under favorable circumstances, up to about
180 or 200 miles. On the average I should say the distance is about
100 miles.
Senator Smith. Does this depend upon the weather or the sea ?
Mr. Marconi. It depends on numerous circumstances. It depends
on the state of space; not necessarily the apparent weather. It may
be a very bad day and atill the messages may go all right. It also
depends to a large extent on the skill of the operator.
Senator Smith. As to the distance within wUch communication
may be effected ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes. If he can adjust his transmitter to its best
condition, approaching its greatest efficiency, he will effect com-
munication at the greatest distance.
Senator Smith. Referring to the equipment on the Carpaffiioy its
maximum efficioncv would be about 180 miles?
Mr. Marconi. I should say perhaps 200.
tt ^, ,^^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 39
Senator Smith. Two hundred miles ?
Mr. Mabconi. Sometimes perhaps more, but on very rare occa-
sions.
Senator Smith. Do you know about the equipment of the Titanicf
Mr. Mabconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was the Titanic equipped by your company ?
Mr. ^LABCONI. The Titanic was eouipped by my company.
Senator Smith. I wish you woula describe the wireless equipment
of the Titanic, stating the character of the apparatus and how modern
and powerful it was.
Mr. Mabconi. The wireless equipment on the Titanic was a fairly
Cowerful set, capable, I should say, of communicating four or five
undred miles during the daytime and much farther dunng the night-
time.
Senator Smhu. How much farther duriuj^ the nighttime ?
Mr. Mabconi. Very often a thousand mfles. I should say almost
every night 1,000 miles.
Senator Smith. With accuracy ?
Mr. Mabconi. With accuracy.
Senator Smith. Would you say that the Titanic was equipped with
the latest and best wireless apparatus ?
Mr. Mabconi. Yes. I should say it was the latest apparatus for
that purpose.
Senator Smith. Did the company of which you are president
designate the operators for the Titanic?
i&. Mabconi. Do you mean did it choose the operators ?
Senator Smith. Yes; or assign them ?
Mr. Mabconi. They assign tnem generally in consultation with the
shipping companies. They consult the shipping companies in regard
to them.
Senator Smith. What is the ordinarj pay for a wireless telegrapher 7
Mr. Mabconi. In England, on British ships, I think they com-
mence about 30 shillings a week, and they go up to over £2 per wejsk.
In addition to that, they get their board and lodging. I am speaking
now subject to some error, because it is some time since I have been
directly connected with those matters. I have a managing director
who attends to the question of salaries.
Senator Smith. Your statement is correct, as far as you have
made it ?
Mr. Mabconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In America what is the wage ?
Mr. Mabconi. I am not aware of the exact wage paid in America.
An official of the American company is present, and lie would be able
to give you an accurate reply.
^nator Smith. How many operators were on the Titanicf
Mr. Mabconi. I believe there were two.
Senator Smith. Did they both survive, do you know ?
Mr. Mabconi. No, sir. One was drowned ; died. He was the chief
operator, I am informed.
Senator Smith. And the other ?
Mr. ]V{abconi. And the other was picked up, I believe. He got on
a raft, on a collapsible boat, and he was rescued by the Carpaihia,
having been wounded in his ankles or his legs.
40 TITANIC DISASTER. |
Senator Smith. At any time during Sunday last, were your offices
here in communication with the Titanic? i
Mr. Marconi. I can not answer that, but I can produce a person '
who can. .
Senator Smith. Have you been in communication with the Car- |
pathia since the disaster to the Tiianicf |
Mr. Marconi. I believe so; at least a great number of messages
have come through from the Carvathia to my knowledge. I sent no '
message to the (MrvaJthia, nor dia I receive any.
Senator Smith. I)id your company ?
Mr. Marconi. My company has.
Senator Smith, i our company has received no messages ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes: my company I believe has.
Senator Smith. It nas both sent and received messages ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe so; I have no personal knowledge, but I
think they have.
Senator Smith. Would you say from what you know about the
receipt of messages sent from and to the ship that the wireless was
working fairly well ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe it was working fairly well.
Senator Smith. You believe it was in good order ?
Mr. Marconi. In good order; yes.
Senator Smith. Wnere is the operator of the Titanic who survived ?
Mr. Marconi. The operator of the Titanic is on another Cunard
boat; I believe at the dock;' I think the Saxonia, He has been
removed there, but he is unable to walk in consequence of the injury
to his ankles.
Senator Smith. He has not been in the hospital ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not think he has.
Senator Smith. What boat did you say he was on ?
Mr. Marconi. I think the Saxonia. ^
Senator Smith. Do you know why he is on the Saxoniaf
Mr. Marconi. Because the Carpathia was to have sailed.
Senator Smith. To-day ?
Mr. Marconi. To-day; and of course he did not belong to the
Carpathia, He was just on board.
Senator Smith. When does the Saxonia sail ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know.
Senator Smith. It is not the intention of this operator to return to
England immediately, is it ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not think it is, and it is not my intention,
either, that he should.
Senator Smith. Have you any authority over him ?
Mr. Marconi. I have the authority that the president of a com-
pany has over one of the employees.
Senator Smith. May I request you to have him remain and pre-
sent himself to the committee as soon as agreeable t
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; I shall be very glad to instruct him to that
effect.
Senator Smith. Where is the operator of the Carpathia f
Mr. Marconi. The operator of the Carpathia was instructed to be
here at 3 o^clock.
Senator Smith. Is he here ?
<( ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 41
Mr. Marconi. I do not see him. We might have him called.
Cottam is his name.
Mr. John W. Griqqs. He is not here.
Mr. Marconi. He went on board ship to take his clothes off.
Senator Smith. And will be back here ?
Mr. Marconi. He should be back here now.
Senator Smith. I wish you would also ask him to remain.
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Griggs. Mr. Chairman, if you will allow me, I wish to say that
the operator of the Carj^hia as well as the assistant operator of the
Titanic have been detained at the instruction of the officers of the
company for the purpose of being at the service of this committee.
Senator Smith. I understand that, Governor.
Mr. Griggs. They will be detained as long as is necessary for this
committee to hoar tnem. With reference to the one from the Tiianic,
I doubt very much whether he can be removed from his present quar-
ters without great inconvenience.
Senator Smith. I understand, Governor, from the officers that that
is their disposition, but this being the president of the Marconi Co.
I thought I would Uke to get into the record his affirmative promise
that that should be done.
Mr. Marconi. Perhaps I should make one explanation. When I
say I am the president of the Marconi Co. these operators are really
in the employ of a subsidiary company of what we call the Marconi
Co., but tnis company is controUeu by the company of which I am
the chairman.
Senator Smith. But it is sufficient to say that you feel that you
have influence enough to carry out the wishes of the committee ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to know if you can tell me from your own
knowledge whether there was any general interference from the time
this collision occurred at sea on the part of experimental or rival
service to the detriment of this service.
Mr. ^Marconi. I should say, if you will allow me, that I have only
seen these operators for a few mmutes; and not having been there,
I can not give a very definite answer to that question. They, no
doubt, will DC able to reply to it fully, but in so far as my impression
goes, it is that near New "i ork there was some slight interference, but
at a distance from New York, when the Carpathia was communicating
with stations in Long Island and in Nova Scotia, there was practically
no interference.
Senator Smith. Can you tell how wide an area was communicated
\i-ith from the Carnathiaj generally speaking — considering, for instance,
a wireless of the character you describe?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. And put them m communication with your office
here. In the course of that message, how far from its original point
of destination would a message of tliat kind extend ?
Mr. Marconi. Of course, the message, I should say, does not come
direct to our office.
Senator Smith. Well, to your
ilr. Marconi. It is taken on a coast station.
Senator SmitA. To your coast station, then.
Mr. Marconi. Then it is sent on by wire to the office.
42 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. When I referred to your office, I meant coast
station.
Mr. Marconi. The wireless message, or the waves of ships equipped
in the way that the Carpathia is equipped, would affect a space which
is that contained in a circle of the diameter of three or four hundred
miles. The radius of the station being 200 miles, it will affect a
space of 200 miles all around. I am now talking about the maximum
range.
Senator Smith. Then interference would be quite possible ?
Mr. Marconi. Interference would be quite possible, assuming that
interf erent stations oY parties were using the same wave length as the
Carpathia. Fortunately they use different wave lengths; and you
can not interfere while using different wave lengths.
Senator Smith. What wave length would be required on such a
communication as the Carpathia mst made to your shore stations ?
Mr. Marconi. I should say they were using a 600-meter wave,
which is one of the international convention waves. I have not the
information in regard to that, but I assume it.
Senator Smith. Is that the minimum of the international con-
vention ?
Mr. Marconi. No; that is the longest.
Senator Smith. I mean the maximum.
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; the maximum. The shortest is 300.
Senator Smith. And the mininaum is 300 ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. This was the maximum wave length
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Prescribed by the international convention ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Would the instrument of the Carpathia have been
able to send a greater wave length than 600 ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the captain of the Carpaihia testify ?
Mr. Marconi. I heard the end of his evidence; just the latter part.
Senator Smith. Did you hear him say that they caught this mes-
sage from the Titanic providentiallv ?
Mr. Marconi. I heard him say that.
Senator Smith. That the operator was removing his shoes and
about to retire?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir- I quite admit that it was providential.
Senator Smith. And that in five minutes more communication
would have been impossible 1
Mr. Marconi. It was absolutely providential. I agree with the
captain.
Senator Smith. If this operator is not at his post of duty, has the
wireless message no signal to arouse him ?
Mr. Marconi. Not the way it is installed on most boats.
Senator Smith. Did it have on this boat ?
Mr. Marconi. It had not, so far as I am aware.
Senator Smith. Did it have on the Titanicf
Mr. Marconi. I do not think so.
Senator Smith. So that it is absolutely necessary that the operator
should be at his post all the time in order to faciUtate or give effect to
communications from ships or coast stations ?
(t ..»».«*«^ 99
TITANIO DISASTEB. 43
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; or ships in distress, I should say.
Senator Smith. Ships in distress and coast stations ?
Mr. Marconi. And coast stations. Of course, if a coast station or
ship calls another ship and the operator does not answer, he simply
waits until later, till the operator is awake or until he has come back.
I am referring to the ordinary commercial communications.
Senator Smith. Yes. But later in this instance would have prob-
ably meant that aU these passengers and crew that were saved would
have been lost.
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; I quite admit that.
Senator Smith. Do you recall any international regulations of
the Berlin convention or any provision relating to that matter ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not think there is any provision in regard to
that matter.
Senator Smith. Ought it not be incumbent upon ships at sea who
have the wireless apparatus to have an operator always at his key ?
Mr. Marconi. I think it certainly should be. Of course, it might
come rather hard on small ships. The shipowners will not like the
expense of two men.
Senator Smith. On the English basis of wage it would not be very
serious ?
Mr. Marconi. No; it would not be, but it is very much a matter
that affects the shipowners; they do not like to carry two operators
when they can get along with one.
Senator Smith. On the Titanic, if you know, was there a constant
relay ?
ilr. ilARCONi. You mean a constant lookout? Constant atten-
tion ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; there should be and there was.
Senator Smith. That was the purpose of having two operators ?
Mr. Marconi. That was the purpose of having two operators, and
also for the purpose of handlmg the greater number of messages
which come to a larger and more important ship.
Senator Smith. Are those men of equal skill ?
Mr. Marconi. Usually there is one man in charge who is an expe-
rienced man, and the other man is also a telegraphist, but a jumor
man of less experience.
Senator Smith. And less remuneration?
Mr. JVIarconi. Yes, sir. I should, if you will allow me, state that
all the wireless telegraphists employed on British ships have to get
a license of competency from the English Government, or they arc
not allowed to operate.
Senator Smith. Does that go to their competency as operators ?
ilr. Marconi. I think it does.
Senator Smith. Does it include their character as man ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And general fitness ?
Mr. Marconi. And general fitness.
Senator Smith. Do you have much difficulty in supplying your
stations with operators ?
Mr. Marconi. Sometimes we have. It takes some time to train
tliera. We train them at a srhool of ours.
44 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Do you have any regulations that touch the
question of their habits ?
Mr. Marconi. Thej^ have to be subject to the discipline of the ship.
They must obey the captain, as every one aboard a ship has to do,
and of course they have to behave in a decent manner on shore.
They must not discredit the service in any way.
Senator Smith. I shouki like to ask whether, in your opinion, the
amateur operators of wireless stations are calculated to minimize the
effectiveness of practical work on land and sea ?
Mr. Marconi. I think it does effectively minimize or hamper the
useful communications, because on an occasion like this I was told —
I always want confirmation from a man who was there — but, if I
remember correctly, I was told last night that a great number of
unknown stations called up the captain for news.
Senator Smith. Unknown stations ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir. Of course the ship would not reply except
to the authorized stations sending traffic. That causes interference
and causes trouble.
In England, of course, that is impossible, because stations are not
allowed to do that.
Senator Smith. How long has wireless telegraphy been a practical
science ?
Mr. Marconi. I think it has been a practical science since — you
mean in regard to shipping ?
Senator Smith. In regard to shipping.
Afr. Marconi. I should say since 1900. Of course, great improve-
ments have been made since.
Senator Smith. Who made the first successful experiment?
Mr. Marconi. On ships ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Marconi. I think I did myself.
Senator Smith. In what year ?
Mr. Marconi. In 1897.
Senator Smith. Since that time have you found it efficient in cases
of a similar character ?
Mr. Marconi. To that of the Titanic and Carpathiaf Yes; I am
very glad to say that it has been of paramount utility in a great num-
ber 01 cases.
Senator Smith. In what cases?
Mr. Marconi. The most important, looking backward, was the
coUision which occurred between the Republic^ of the White Star
Line, and the Florida, near Nantucket, when assistance was sum-
moned; and, fortunately, in that case practicall)^ everyone was saved.
Other cases have occurred with other ships. I remember a light-
ship in the English Channel which was run down over 10 years ago
which obtained assistance by the same means; and one of the Cimard
liners got into trouble some time ago — along time ago — and summoned
assistance by the same methods. Of course the two important and
sensational cases in which it has proved of utility have been the
wreck of the Republic and this disaster to the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Do you regard the Berlin convention as a step in
the direction of the international utility of wireless telegraphy?
Mr. Marconi. I think in regard to shipping and shore stations it
is a good regulation. It is a means for regulating the working and
i( »»».«,«^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 45
preventing interference; provided, however, that it is administered
in a fair manner by the Grovemments concerned.
^ Senator Smith. How many wireless stations are there now in th6
United States; do you know?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know exactly, but there is a fair number.
Senator Smith. What is the maximum distance over which com-
munications may be accurately made ?
Mr. Marconi. The longest distance I can recall is from Ireland to
the Argentine Republic.
Senator Smith. From where ?
Mr. Marconi. Ireland.
Senator Smith. From what point?
Mr. Marconi. Clifton, Ireland, to Buenos Aires.
Senator Smith. In the Argentine Republic?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; in the Argentme Republic. That is 6,000
miles.
Senator Smith. Have you personal knowledge of the correctness
of that ?
Mr. ^Marconi. I have personal knowledge, because I was at the
receiving end when the message was received.
Senator Smith. You were at the receiving end ?
Mr. Marconi. I was in South America, at Buenos Aires. My
assistants were in Ireland.
Senator Smith. TVTiat wave length was used in that test ?
ilr. Marconi. A wave length of between 7,000 and 8,000 meters,
25,000 feet.
Senator Smith. In that test was there any mountainous obstruc-
tions {
Mr, Marconi. There was a part of the coast of Brazil intervening
between the two.
Senator Smith. And that is mountainous ?
Mr. Marconi. That is mountainous in that part.
Senator Smith. Was the Califomian equipped with wireless ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know.
Senator Smith. It was not equipped by you ?
ilr. ilARCONi. I could not say one way or the other. I should say
that I travel about a great deal and ships are equipped in England
when 1 am not there.
Senator Smith. Have you made any experiments in transoceanic
service of that character?
ilr. Marconi. Yes, sir. It is employed at present for transmitting
messages between Canada and Ireland, a place called Glace Bay in
Canada, and another place called Clifton, in Ireland.
Senator Smith. Is that assuming a practical phase?
Mr. Marconi. That is on a practical and commercial basis, the dis-
tance being approximately 2,000 miles between the two points.
Senator Smith. What wave length is required?
Mr. Marconi. The wave length there is 7,000 meters.
Senator Smith. When was that communication between Ireland
and Buenos .\ires ?
Mr. Marconi. It was in October, in 1910.
Senator Smith. Is there any proficiency test prescribed by any
special board in England ?
40475— PT 1—12 4
46 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Makconi. Yes; the operator have to pass a proficiency test
before the post-office authorities, which control the telegraphs in
'England.
Senator Smith. Is there any in this country ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe there is now.
Senator SMrrn. How recently ?
Mr. Marconi. Since a law was passed compelling passenger-carrying
vessels to carry wireless-telegrapn apparatus.
Senator Smith. About two years ago ?
Mr. Marconi. About two years ago.
Senator Smith. There seems to be a distinction between commer-
cial business and distress or emergency business, ships' business. Why
should that be so ?
Mr. Marconi. For this reason : Tlie commercial business is paid for
and accounted for between the sliips and the shore stations and organi-
zations working the telegraphs on land, whilst, of course, for distress
messages and messages affecting the safety, of ships no charge is made
and is not in itself a commercial business.
Senator Smith. The Berlin convention, however, rather exalts the
•emergency phase of wireless telegraphy, giving to distress calls the
precedence over all other calls, does it not ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; it has copied us in that, because that was
one of our pro^asions before there was any Berlin convention.
Senator Smith. It even takes precedence of Government business,
does it not ?
Mr. Marconi. Even of Government business; ves.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, were any orders given by the Mar-
coni Co. to the operators or the operator on the Carpathian with refer-
ence to the receipt and answer of messages ?
Mr. Marconi. None whatever.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about the effort of the
President of the United States to communicate with the Carpathiat
Mr. Marconi. Except what I have read in the newspapers.
Senator Smith. But, so far as you know, there was no disposition
to censorize or control the operator of the Carpathiat
Mr. Marconi. There was none whatever; and further, I was very
much surprised at the things that were stated in the press, that a
reply had been refused or had not been transmitted.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there was a reply refused ?
Mr. Marconi. Only from what I saw in the press. I might say
that the operator, of course, can speak for himself; but I asked him
that question last night when I boarded the CarjHithia and he told
me that he never dreamed of refusing to reply to a message sent by
the President.
Senator Smith. I think that is all. We are much obliged to you
TESTIMOITT OF CHABLES HEBBEKT UOHTOLLEB.
Mr. Lightoller was sw^om by the chainnan.
Senator Smith. What is your name ?
Mr. Lightoller. Charles Herbert Lightoller.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lightoller, where do your reside ?
Mr. Lightoller. Netley Abbey, Hampshire.
Senator Smith. England ?
a ,«, .^ 99
TITANIC " DISASTER. 47
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Thirty-eight.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Lightoller. Seaman.
Senator Smith. How long have you been in that service or
employment?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Thirteen years and three months.
Senator Smith. How extensive has been your service in that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I do not quite follow you.
Senator Smith. How much service have you seen? In what
capacities?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. In all the capacities in the White Star service —
fourth, third, second, and first officer.
Senator Smith. You have been in the White Star service during all
that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What official positions do you say you have held ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Fourth, third, second, and first officer.
Senator Smith. What position do you occupy now?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Sccoud officer of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. How long have you been second officer ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Altogether, about seven vears.
Senator Smith. When did you go aboard the Titanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. In Belfast.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. March 19 or 20.
Senator Smith. Did you make the so-called trial trips ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Of what did -they consist ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Tuming circles and adjusting compasses.
Senator Smith. In what waters ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Belfast Lough.
Senator Smith. How extensive is that lough ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I can hardly say ofifhand without seeing a chart.
Senator Smith. Have you any data here that shows ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No.
Senator Smith. Just state as nearly as you can.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. It may be about 15 miles long, widening out
from a few miles wide to perhaps 7 miles. That is only approximate,
sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been in that water before ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Only passing through.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to pass through it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Going into Belfast or coming out bound to
some port. I do not mean in an official capacity; as a passenger.
I have been through it in an official capacity about 11 vears ago.
Senator Smith. Is that water usually selected for these trial tests
for new ships ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes.
Senator Smith. What was the condition of the weather when you
made this trial test ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Light breeze, clear weather, sir.
tf ..^^.,»«^ ff
48 TITANIC DISASTER. |
Senator Smith. From the time vou boarded the Titanic did vou
at any time encounter any rough weather?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were always in smooth water, so called ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Does that include up to the time of this collision?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Of what do these trial tests consist ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Turning circles.
Senator Smith. I wish you would describe that a little more fully.
Under what head of steam and how fast would the boat be moving ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Under various speeds.
Senator Smith. In how large a raaius would these circles be made ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Turning circles consists of seeing in what spac^
the ship wiU turn under certain helms with the engines at various
speeds.
Senator Smith. Was this boat tested at its maximum speed 1
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the maximum speed of this boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir. She was never put, to my .
knowledge, to her maximum speed.
Senator Smith. What did you understand it to be ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 22i to 23 knots.
Senator Smith. From whom did you get that information ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. General rumor, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you. talk with the boat's oflBcers?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From talk generally, yes. It was only an ap-
proximate idea.
Senator Smith. How much time was spent in the test?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say exactly.
Senator Smith. Approximately f
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About five hours.
Senator Smith. During that time those circles were made ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sIt.
Senator Smith. And the ship reversed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sIt.
Senator Smith. And put on a straight course ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And under full head ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir. She steamed for a certain
distance under approximately a full head of steam; but how much
steam was on I could not say, or what pressure of steam.
Senator Smith. How many engines were there in this boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two reciprocatin^ and one turbine.
Senator Smith. Were they all working on the trial test ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. So far as I know, sir.
Senator Smith. What do you know about that ? Were you in the
engine room ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I was on my station, aft.
Senator Smith. Where was your station ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The after end of the ship.
Senator Smith. Then you would not, of your own knowledge, knovr
whether its entire power was being tested out or not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should not; no, sir.
t( «^ ff
TITAKIG DI8ASTEB. 49
Senator Smith. Five hours was the length of time spent in making
those tests ?
Mr. LiOHTOLi^ER. Approximately the length of time occupied in
turning tbose circles.
Senator Smith. What was the next thing that was done with the
ship?
Mr. LiGHTOiXEB. She was run a certain distance on a compara-
tively stiaight course and back again.
Senator Smith. How fart
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I could not say without a chart, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did it take you ?
Mr. LiQHTOLX.£R. Approximately four hours.
Senator Smith. To make the straight run ?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And return ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. And return.
Senator Smith. Four hours all together, two out and two back ?
Mr. Lightoiusb. Two out and two back. That is only approx-
imate.
Senator Smith. Would you think from what you observed in the
movements of this ship that it was goin^ prettj^ fast ?
Mr. LiGUTOLLER. For a ship of that size, a fair speed.
Senator Smith. Fair speed 1
Mr LiGHTOLLEB A fair speed.
Senator Smith. What would you call real good speed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. When the ship was built, we only expected her
t4> ») 21 knots, therefore all over 21 we thought very good.
^!>enator Smith. This ship exceeded 21 knots?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. On the trials ? I am not speaking of the trials.
I do not know what the speed was; I have no idea.
Senator Smith. But I understand you to say that you expected to
get 21 knots out of her?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. The builders, I presume, expected to get 21.
Senator Smith. That was the general ruipor ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. YcS.
Senator Smith. Among the officers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes.
Senator Smith. I suppose that was the hope, too, of the officers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Exactly.
Senator Smith. What boat had you been on before you went on
board the Titanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. The Oceanic.
Senator Smith. The Oceanic j of the same line ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Of the same line.
Senator Smith. How large a boat is the Oceanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Seventeen thousand tons gross.
Senator Smith. Do you know her maximum speed ?
it. LiGHTOLLEB. Tweuty-one knots.
Senator SMrrn. I want to be sure I get the results of these trial
tests accurately. I want you to tell me how long it took to make
these tests. T^e straightaway tests and the circle tests altogether
consumed how much time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Approximately six or seven hours. I could not
say any nearer than that.
50 TITANIC DISASTER. j
Senator Smith. What time of day did you begin these tests ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. In the morning.
Senator Smith. How early ? i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 10 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Was it clear weather ? !
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perfectly clear.
Senator Smith. Was there any sea ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Very little.
Senator Smith. And after about seven hours the tests were con-
cluded ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. With the exception of full speed astern ; that is, ,
to see in what distance the ship will stop with the engines full speed |
astern — what we call the full speed astern test.
Senator Smith. Was that made that day ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did that take ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That was only the matter of minutes.
Senator Smith. A few minutes?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER, A fcw minutcs. .
Senator Smith. Do you know who was aboard the Titanic in these
trial tests ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A great number. I know some of them.
Senator Smith. Please state those that you know.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Capt. Smith; Mr. Murdock, chief officer; myself,
first officer; Mr. Blair, second officer; Mr. Pittman, third officer; Mr.
Boxall, fourth officer; Mr. Lowe, fifth officer; Mr. Moody, sixth
officer; and Mr. Andrews, of Harlan & Wolf.
Senator Smith. Representing the builders ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. I could not say anyone else with any
accuracy.
Senator Smith. Who was the chief engineer ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Bell, chief engineer;* Mr. Ferguson, second
engineer; Mr. Hasketh, also second. That is all I know.
Senator Smith. How many men constituted the crew ?
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. Seamen, you are speaking of ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 71 all told; officers and crew.
Senator Smith. And seamen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the trial test ?
Mi. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, no, sir. I am not speaking of the trial.
Senator Smith. How many men constituted the crew on the trial
tests?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 30 of the crew and about 30 of what we
call runners.
Senator Smith. Were there any guests on the boat ?
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. I belicve there were; I could not say who.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Ifr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any of the officers of the White Star
Line ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say with certainty, sir. -^
Senator Smith. You do not recall seeing any of them?
Ct „^ ,^^ }f
TITANIC DIBASTEK. 61
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I do not recall; no, sir. I believe there were
some on board, but I can not remember who they were. I was not
brought in contact witli them.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Ismay aboard ?
Mr. LdQHTOLLER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear afterwards that he was on board ?
Mr. LiGHTOLi^ER. Xo, sir.
Senator Smith. You can not recall any officer of the company that
was?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. I mean any general officer ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or director \
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there anybody aboard representing the
British Government ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xot to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any other officers of other White Star
Line boats?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xo, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any other officers of any other line of
boats?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xo, sir.
Senator Smith. After the final test, what was done with the boat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We proceeded toward Southampton.
Senator SMmi. Immediately ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Almost immediately after taking on board a few
things that had been left beliind, which were required for the com-
pletion of the ship.
Senator Smith. What ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. So far as I know, requisites down in the galley,
cooking apparatus, a few chairs, and such things as that.
Senator Smith. Was the life-saving equipment
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, no, sir; nothing like that.
Senator Smith. Was the life-saving equipment complete ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Of what did it consist ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The necessary number of lifeboats.
Senator Smith. I wish you would say how that is determined, if
you can.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By the number of people on board.
Senator Smith. You do not know how many there are on board
until you are ready to start ?
Mr.* LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is it not determined by the number of accommoda-
tions rather than by the number of people who get aboard %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. There must be liie-saving apparatus for every
one on board, regardless of accommodations.
Senator Smith. Yes; but what I desire to know is whether in each
stateroom on each deck, in all classes, whether there is any rule, and
whether it was followed at that time, so far as you know, in equipping
this boat with life preservers and life belts and anything else that
might appropriately go into the rooms and be upon the decks of a
boat of that character ?
52 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. She was perfectly complete throughout, sir.
Senator Smith. How many lifeboats were there ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Sixteen. I
Senator Smith. All of the same type ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Consisting of 14 lifeboats, 2 emergency boats, and
4 coUapsible boats.
Senator Smith. TeU us whether they were new entirely.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Entirely new.
Senator Smith. And in their proper places ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In their proper places.
Senator Smith. With the necessaiy lowering apparatus?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Everything complete, examined by the officers of
the ship.
Senator Smith. Was a test of the lifeboats made before you sailed
for Southampton ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. All the eear was tested.
Senator Smith. Were the lifeboats lowered?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smfth. Under whose orders?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The officers' ; principally my orders.
Senator Smith. Under your orders ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Smith. Did you see the work done ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I (fid.
Senator Smith. Tell just what was done.
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. All the boats on the ship were swung out and
those that I required were lowered down as far as I wanted them —
some all the way down, and some dropped into the water.
Senator Smith. I wish you would give the proportion that went
into the water.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About six.
Senator Smith. Six into the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. And the others lowered?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Part of the way — as far as I thought necessary.
Senator Smith. Part of the way?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator SMrra. Of course, part of the way would not do anybody
much good on a sinking ship. I assume you did that for the purpose
of trying the gear, and not for the purpose of testing the security of
the lifeboats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is principally the gear that we test. The life-
boats we know to be all nght.
Senator Smith. These boats were lowered from what deck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the boat deck.
Senator Smith. Is that the sun deck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is the top deck.
Senator Smith. Do you know how far it was from that top deck
to the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Seventy feet.
Senator Smith. What time did you reach Southampton i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About midnight.
Senator Smith. Of what night ?
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. I could not say.
({ «^ 9f
UTAl^IC DISASTEB. 53
Senator Smith. Think it over.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I think it was the morning of the 4th of April.
Senator Smffh. What makes j^ou think it was the morning of
the 4th ?
Mr. L<iOHTOLX.ER. Because we sailed on the 10th.
Senator SMnn. How long did it take to make the run to South-
ampton t
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About 24 hours.
Senator Smith. Did you strike any heavy weather ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How fast did you go ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About 18 knots.
Senator Smith. What was done when you reached Southampton t
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The ship was heeled for stability.
Senator Smith. Just describe that.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The builders knowing the exact weights on board,
additional weights are placed on each side of the ship. A pendulum is
suspended in tne most convenient place in the ship with a plumb on
the end of it, and a method of registering the difTerence with the
plumb line; a number of men then transfer the weights from one side
of the ship to the other, bringing all the weight on one side and trans-
ferring the whole of it back agam ; and with this, I believe the build-
ers are able to draw up a stabuity scale.
Senator Smith. From what part of the ship are these tests made ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The weights carried over, vou mean ?
Senator Smith. Yes. From the upper part f
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The **C" deck — tne third deck down.
Senator Smith. About the center of the ship ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not Quite the center of the ship.
Senator Smith. Were tnere any tests made from the upper deck I
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not that I know of, sir.
Senator Smith. What else was done at Southampton ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. We shipped coal, provisions, cargo was taken on
board, passed the board of trade tests and survey.
Senator Smith. Did some British officer make the board of trade
test?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The Southampton Board of Trade officer.
Senator Smith. What did he do ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. He carried out the requisite tests required by the
British Board of Trade.
Senator Smith. Did you accompany him ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes; I was with him part of the time.
Senator Smith. Who was this officer of the British Board of Trade ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Capt. Clark.
Senator Smith. He was an officer ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. He was purelv a representative of the British
Board of Trade, appointed by the iBritish Board of Trade, with post
at the port of Southampton; surveyor.
Senator Smith. He was assigned to Southampton ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. How old a man was he ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About 45.
Senator Smith. Of English nationality ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes.
54 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen him before ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Frequently.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he had any experience in
marine service ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. AH surveyors, I understand, have been in com-
mand. I know he had for a number of years.
Senator Smith. Wliat does that mean — that he had been *4n
command''?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In command of a British ship; captain.
Senator Smith. How much time did this officer spend on the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. How much did he spend whe^ he was with you?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About four hours.
Senator Smith. Then did you turn him over to some other officer?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To what other officer ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think it was the first.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Did he survive the Titanic disaster ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. He was chief then.
Senator Smith. He did not survive i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any other officer of the ship
accompanied this inspector during his stay on board ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say with certainty.
Senator Smith. What is your best judgment about it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should say the manne superintendent was with
him the whole time.
Senator Smith. The marine superintendent?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Of the White Star Line, at Southampton.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Capt. Steele.
Senator Smith. How old a man is he ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 50.
Senator Smith. Is he a commander ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had vou ever seen one of those ocean liners
inspected by the British Board of Trade representative before ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Frequently.
Senator Smith. How thorough are thev about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Speaking of Capt. Clark, we call him a nuisance
because he is so strict.
Senator Smith. Capt. Clark ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is he the marine officer ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is the board of trade representative.
Senator Smith. In what respect is he a nuisance?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccausc he makes us fork out every detail.
Senator Smith. I should suppose you would be quite wiUing to do
that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perfectly willing.
Senator Smith. Do you mean by that that he would call attention
to the absence of tools, implements, and devices necessary for the
ship's full equipment ?
it ^ .^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 55
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sIt. He would insist upon them all being
absolutely brought out on deck every time.
Senator Smith. On what ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Everything that contributes to the ship's equip-
ment.
Senator Smith. What would that consist of ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The whole of the ship's life-saving equipment.
Senator Smith. Life preservers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Life preservers tluroughout the ship, all the boats
turned out, uncovered, all the tanks exammed, all the breakers exam-
ined, oaiB counted, boats turned out, rudders tried, all the davits
tried — there was innumerable detail work.
Senator Smith. And the boats lowered ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The boats lowered, put in the water, and pulled
out, and brought back again, and if he was not satisfied, sent back
again.
Senator Smith. And the ropes and chains tested ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When he inspected your ship, about where would
he find these life preservers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Life belts in every room, in every compartment,
where, as we say, there was habitation, where a man could live.
Senator Smith. Would that include the steerage ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, undoubtedly; and tlie crews' quarters.
Senator Smith. In the steerage do they have rooms ?
\fr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And they are equipped ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. With the same apparatus for the preservation of
life in an emergency as the first and second cabins?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Identically the same ?
Senator Smith. You used the term '*life belt."
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would describe a life belt.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It consists of a series of pieces of cork — allow
me to show you by illustration — a hole is cut in there [illustrating]
for the head to go through and this falls over front and back, and
there are tapes m>m the back then tied around the front. It is a
new idea and very effective, because no one can make a mistake in
putting it on.
Senator Smith. Is there cork on both sides ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On both sides.
Senator Smith. Are the arms free ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Free, absolutely.
Senator Smith. And when in the water does this adhere or extend ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is tied to the body.
Senator Smith. It is tied to the body ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever had one of these on ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been into tlie sea with one of them ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yos, sir.
Senator Smith. Where?
Mr. I^GHTOLLER. From the Titanic.
56 TITANIO DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. In tliis recent collision ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long were you in the sea with a life belt on ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Between half an hour and an hour.
Senator Smith. What time did you leave the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I didn't leave it.
Senator Smith. Did the ship leave you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you stay until the ship had departed entirely t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell us whether the suction in-
cidental to the sinking of this vessel was a great deterrent in making
progress away from the boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was hardly noticeable.
Senator Smith. From what point on the vessel did you leave it t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On top of the officers' quarters.
Senator Smith. And where were the officers' quarters ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Immediately abaft the bridge.
Senator Smith. Immediately abaft the bridged
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Abaft the wheelhouse.
Senator Smith. Was that pretty well toward the top of the vessel t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were the lifeboats gone when you found yourself
without any footing ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. All cxccpt one.
Senator Smith. Where was that one. ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In the tackles, trjdng to get it over.
Senator Smith. Did not the tackle work readily ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What delaved it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was tne third boat over by the same tackles.
Senator Smith. The third boat over by the same tackles ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. From what deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The boat deck.
Senator Smith. The sun deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The sun deck.
Senator Smith. How close were you to this lifeboat at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Fifteen feet.
Senator Smith. Was it filled before starting to lower it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was not high enough to lower.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was not high enough to lower. They were
then endeavoring to get it over the bulwark, outboard; swinging it;
getting it over the bulwarks. When it was over the bulwarlM, tnen
it woiHd hang in the tackles, and until it hung in the tackles it was
impossible to put anyone in it.
Senator Smith. How far below the boat deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Abovc the boat deck.
Senator Smith. How far above the boat deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 4 feet 6 inches.
Senator Smith. And it was lowered to the boat deck ?
Mr. Lightqller. It did not get over the bulwarks to be lowered.
Senator Smith. The last you saw of it ?
it ..^».«^^ fy
TTTANIC DISASTER. 67
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was managing this tackle ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The first ofticer, Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. He lost his life ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Ismay at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you, at any time?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the boat deck.
Senator Smfth. How long before she sunk ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At first, before we started the boats, when we
started to uncover the boats.
Senator Smith. I did not quite catch that.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When we started to uncoyer the boats.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the collision ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 20 minutes.
Senator Smith. What was he doing ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Standing still.
Senator Smith. Dressed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir; it was too dark.
Senator Smith. Was he talking with anyone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. He was alone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On what deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLi^R. On the boat deck.
Senator Smith. Were there any other passengers on that deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not that I saw at that time.
Senator Smith. Did you see any there afterwards ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Plenty.
Senator Smith. Had the passengers the right to go on that deck
from below ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Every light.
Senator Smith. There was no restraint at the staircase ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nonc.
Senator Smith. Was that true as to the steerage ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The steerage have no right up there, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they on that occasion ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oil, ycs.
Senator Smith. There was no restraint?
Mr. liiGHTOLLER. Oh, absolutely none.
Senator Smith. There must have been considerable confusion.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not that I noticed.
Senator Smith. Was everybody orderly?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perfectly.
Senator Smith. How long did you see Mr. Ismay there alone?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As I passcd.
Senator SMrra. Where were you going at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was attending to the boats, seeing the men
distributed, having the boat covers stripped off.
Senator Smith, lou say you were 15 feet from this last boat when
it was lowered ?
68 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It WES not lowered, sir. I was 16 feet from it
when they were endeavoring to get it into the tackles.
Senator Smith. Did you go nearer to it than that.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Did not have the opportunity^ sir.
Senator Smith. Why not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The ship went down.
Senator Smith. Was this Doat ever lowered?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smfth. It remained in the tackle ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you see Mr. Ismay, with reference to the
attempted lowering of this boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I saw Mr. Ismay, as I stated to you, sir, once
onlv.
Senator Smith. Only once ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And* that was about 20 minutes after the collision t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. And there were no other passengers on that deck
at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not that I noticed. I should notice Mr. Ismay
naturally more than I should notice passengers.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccausc I know him.
Senator Smith. How long have you known him ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Siucc I have been in the companv.
Senator Smith. Are you quite well acquainted with the officers of
this company ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I naturally know them by sight.
Senator Smith. Does he know you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, he knew me; yes.
Senator Smith. Did he speak to you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was he with at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ouc.
Senator Smith. Neither spoke to the other ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he see you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. 1 don't know whether he recognized me.
Senator Smith. Do you know where the captain was at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him on the bridge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Prcvious to that I had seen him on the bridge.
Senator Smith. How long before that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About three minutes after the impact.
Senator Smith. Did he leave the bridge or did he remain there and
you leave your point of occupation ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I left.
Senator Smith. You left ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. VThere did you go ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Back to my berth.
Senator Smith. What for ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. There was no call for me to be on deck.
it -^—.^--^ ff
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 59
Senator Smith. No call, or no cause?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. As far as I could see, neither call nor cause.
Senator Smith. You mean from the moment of the impact ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you believe the boat was in danger ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You felt that it was not a serious accident ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I did not think it was a serious accident.
Senator Smith. What was the force of the impact ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. A slight jar and a grinding sound.
Senator Smith. From front or side ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Well, naturally I should think it was in front,
whether I could tell or not.
Senator Smith. You could not tell exactly ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there a noise ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Very little.
Senator Smith. Very little ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Very little.
Senator Smith. Did you go back to your room under the impres-
sion that the boat had not been injured ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Didn't you tell Mr. Ismay that that night ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I had not seen Mr. Ismay then.
Senator Smith. Did you tell him that afterwards ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. h eally , I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you when tlie impact occurred ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. In mv berth.
Senator Smith. Asleep ?
ilr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; I was just getting off asleep.
Senator Smith. You arose ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you dress yourself t
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you put on, if anything?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Nothing.
Senator Smith. You went out of your room ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Forward ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Out on deck.
Senator Smith. On deck ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes; I walked forward.
Senator Smith. You walked forward how far ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. A matter of 10 feet, until I could see the bridge
distinctly.
Senator Smith. You could see the bridge distinctly; and the cap-
tain was on the bridge ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The captain and first officer.
Senator Smith. Did you see any other officers at that time ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I did not notice them.
Senator Smith. Had no alarm been given at that time ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. None.
Senator Smith. How much time elapsed after the impact and your
appearance on the deck ?
60 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I should say about two or three minutes.
Senator Smith. Two or three minutes ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Two minutes.
Senator Smith. Then you returned? How long did you remain
on deck ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About two or three minutes.
Senator Smith. At that time who else was on deck at that point ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Excludiu^ the bridge, I saw no one except the
third officer, who left his berth shortly after I did.
Senator Smith. Did he join you ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Smith. Did you confer about what had happened ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you conclude had happened ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Nothing much.
Senator Smith. You knew there had been a collision ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not necessarily a collision.
Senator Smith. You knew you had struck something ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you assume it to be ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. IcC.
Senator Smith. Ice ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Why i
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That was the conclusion one naturally jumps to
around the Banks there.
Senator Smith. Had you seen ice before ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had there been any tests taken of the temperature
of the water ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. A test is taken of the water every two hours from
the time the ship leaves until she returns to port.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether these tests were made?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. They were.
Senator Smith. Did you make them ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Oh, no, sir.
Senator Smith. Were they made under your direction ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you know they were made ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. It is the routine of the ship.
Senator Smith. You assume they were made ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yos, sir.
Senator Smith. But you can not say of your own knowledge that
they were i
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not of my own actual seeing; no, sir.
Senator Smith. How were these tests made ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. By drawing water from over the side in a canvas
bucket and placing a thermometer in it.
Senator Smith. How far down did you dip tliis water; did yoi
try to get surface water, or did you try to get Delow ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. It is impossible to get water below; just th(
surface.
Senator Smith. You get surface water entirely?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
" «.^.««^ #^
VrSAMtV DVAmSB. Si
Senator Smith. Those tests had been made that day t
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. At intervals of two hours ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. This was on Sunday ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything about the rope or chain or
wire to which the test basins were attadied not reacmng the water
at any time during those tests ?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. The bucket, you speak of ?
Senator Smfth. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Would a complaint of that character come to you
if it had been true ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Very quickly, I should think, sir.
Senator Smith. How would it come to you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the person who saw it, I should think.
Senator SMrrn. It would be nis duty to report to you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Undoubtedly.
Senator Smith. Directly to you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Directly to the officer in charge of the ship at the
time.
Senator Smith. Who was in chaise of the ship on Sunday ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Each officer kept his own watch, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you in charge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. DuHug my watch.
Senator Smith. What hours were your watch ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Six o'clock until 10 o'clock.
Senator Smith. At niffht ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ahq moming.
Senator Smith. So that from 6 o'clock in the evening on Sun-
day
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Until 10 o'clock you were in charge 1
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And during that time two tests should have been
made of the temperature of the water for the purpose of ascertaining
whether you were in the vicinity of icebergs f
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. No, Sir.
Senator Smith. For what purpose were the tests made 1
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They were routine, sir. It is customary to make
them.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that you take these tests when you
are not in the vicinity of the Grand Banks ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the time we leave port, any port in the
world, until the time we get to the next port in any part of the world,
these tests are taken by the White Star Line.
Senator Smith. Did you take these tests when you were in the
Gulf Stream ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We take them all the time; every two hours.
Senator Smith. Beardless of location or circumstances)
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. 1 es, sir.
Senator Smith. Or conditions ?
40475— PT 1—12 5
62 TITAKIO DIBASTEB.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir. I may except in narrow waters, such
as rivers, or harbors. We do not take them there.
Senator Smith. Is this test taken for the purpose of ascertaining
the temperature of the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Merely?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Merely.
Senator Smith. What does the temperature of the water indicate
to you?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Nothing more than temperature of the air, sir.
Senator Smith. Does it not indicate the proximity of a colder area
or an unusual condition ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. It indicates cold water, sir, of course.
Senator Smith. Can you tell us how cold that water was ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I know what it was when I was in it.
Senator Smith. I should like to have your judgment about it.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should ssLj it was not much over freezing;
how much, I could not say. It might be 33 or 34.
Senator Smith. Not much over freezing?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the tests show ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You mean they did not report to you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is entered in a book, sir.
Senator Smith. And the fact is not communicated to you directly
after each test ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not unlcss I ask for it.
Senator Smith. And you did not think it necessary to ask for it
that night ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. *
Senator Smith. You knew you were in the vicinity of icebergs,
did you not?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Water is absolutelv no" guide to icebergs, sir.
Senator Smith. I did not ask that. t)id you know you were in the
vicinity of icebergs ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know of the wireless message from the
America to the Titanic^ warning you that you were in the vicinity
of icebergs ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the America to the Titanict
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Can not say that I saw that individual message.
Senator Smith. Did you hear of it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Would you have heard of it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Most probably, sir.
Senator Smith. If that nad been the case ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Most probably, sir.
Senator Smith. In fact, it woulH have been the duty of the person
receiving this message to communicate it to you, for you were in
charge of the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Under the commander^s orders, sir.
Senator Smith. But you received no communication of that kind ?
a ..»..«**^ ff
TITANIC DISA8TEB. 68
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I do not know whether I received the Americana;
I knew that a communication had come from some ship ; I can not say
that it was the America,
Senator Sbctth. Giving the latitude and the longitude of those ice-
bergs?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. No; no latitude.
Senator Skith. And that thev were prevalent ?
Mr. I^OHTOLLBR. Speaking of the iceoergs and naming their longi-
tude.
Senator Smith. Just tell us, if an^^thing, what you did hear about
that, and from whom, if you can.
Ifir. LiOHTOLLER. From what ship the message came I have for-
gotten; but the message contained information that there was ice
from 49 to 51.
Senator Smith. How do you know it came ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Bccausc I saw it.
Senator Smith. That is since the collision ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not that I know of.
Senator Smith. Have you seen it since the collision ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not that I know of. Whether it was the same
message or not. I have seen some. Whether it is the same or not;
I do not know. I have not seen the same to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. From whom did 3rou get that information ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. From the captain.
Senator Smith. That night?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Smith. At what time did you get that information ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I think it was that afternoon.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About 1 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Where were you then ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. On the bridge.
Senator Smith. With the captain ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Smith. Where was the ship with reference to her latitude ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I could not tell you without working it out, sir.
Senator Smith. What time was it m the day ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About 1 o'clock.
Senator Smith. You were not then officer ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I was relieving for lunch.
Senator Smith. So that from the time this communication came to
you you were not in charge of the ship until 6 o'clock that night ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Exactly.
Senator Smith. Who succeeded you as officer of the ship ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The first officer, Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate to him this information
that the captain had given you on the bridge ?
3^Ir. LiOHTOLLER. I communicated that when I was relieving him
at 1 o*clock.
Senator Smith. What did you tell him ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Exactly what was in the telegram.
Senator Smith, What did he say ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. '* All right."
64 TITANIC DI8A8TEB.
Senator Smith. So that the officers of the ship — ^the officer in
charge, Mr. Murdock, was fully advised by you tliat you were in
proximity of these icebergs
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I would hardly call that proximity.
Senator Smith. Pardon me and I will complete my question. And
you were advised by the captain that that was the case. Or, revers-
ing it, you were advised by the captain, and by word of mouth, and
communicated that word to officer Murdock, m charge of the ship,
to which he replied, *'AU right ?^^
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hold any further consultation about it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. With the first officer? No, sir.
Senator Smith. How fast was the boat going at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 21 i or 22.
Senator Smith. 21 ^ or 22 knots?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yos, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that her maximum speed?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know, sir. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether she went any faster than
that at any time on the trip ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as we understood she would eventually
go faster than that when the ship was tuned up.
Senator Smith. But that was as fast as she went on the trial tests.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know what her speed was on the trial
Senator Smith. I thought 3^ou indicated it was about that. She
was, however, running at her maximum speed at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Wc understood she was not at her maximum
speed.
Senator Smith. That is, you understood that there was still reserve
power there?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yos.
Senator Smith. That had not been exhausted ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you have any instructions from anybody to
exhaust that power ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. NoHC.
Senator Smith. Did you have any ambition of your own to see it
exhausted ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes; I dare say.
Senator Smith. You wanted her to go as fast as she could ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At SO me time or other; yes.
Senator Smith. Was that shared by your associates among the
officers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they talk about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Naturally we talked; we wondered what her
maximum speed would eventually be.
Senator Smith. You were anxious to see it tested ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not uccessarily anxious.
Senator Smith. Interested, however?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Interested; yes.
Senator Smith. When you turned the ship over to the second
officer, Mr. Murdock
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The first officer.
<< „ ft
TITANIC DISASTER. 65
Senator Smith. When you turned the ship over to the first officer,
Mr. Murdock, where did you go ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. What time are you speaking of now ?
Senator Smith. I am speaking of about noon or 1 o'clock.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Went to my lunch.
Senator Smith. And what did you do after that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I wcut bclow.
Senator Smith. Where i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bclow, to my berth or wherever it happened to
be. We call the quarters, generally, below.
Senator Smith. IHd you find anybody there when you got below?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs. The watch below I suppose was there.
Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with hun about the word
that the captain had given you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with anybody about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; not that I remember.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain in your room ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER, I dare say I was in and out of the room two or
three times during the afternoon. Later on I laid down in the after-
noon to sleep, and got up and wrote some letters, or something like
that.
Senator Smith. And took your place again in command of the
ship, or rather, as officer of the watch, at 6 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At 6 o'clock.
Senator Smith. At that time did you say anything to the other
officers who were on duty at the time about this information that the
captain gave you ?
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. Not that I remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the lookout increased that evening after you
took the watch ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER No, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the complement cf your ship that night,
in officers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You mean on deck, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mysclf and two juniors.
Senator Smith. Where were those two juniors stationed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They have various duties to perform, taking the
various parts of the ship; sometimes in the wheelhcuse; at different
periods one has to go the whole rounds of the ship and see that every-
thing is in order.
Senator Smith. When you came on watch at 6 o'clock, was the
captain on the bridge, or did you see him ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I didn't see him at 6 o'clock.
Senator Smith. When did you next see him ?
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. About five minutes to 9 was the next time I
^aw him.
Senator Smith. About five minutes to 9 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In his absence, who was on the bridge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mysclf .
Senator Smith. Did you relieve him ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The captain ?
66 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. The first officer. I beg your pardon;
1 relieved the chief.
Senator Smith. You relieved the chief ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And went to the bridge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I relieved the chief. The chief's watch was from
2 until 6. I relieved the chief officer at 6 o'clock and carried on the
watch until 10.
Senator Smith. Did you remain on the bridge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From 6 until 10 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During that time was each officer or man in his
position in the forward part of that vessel ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was there, and where were they stationed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two men in the crow's nest, one man at the
wheel, one man standing by.
Senator Smith. What was the weather that night?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Clear and calm.
Senator Smith. Were you at all apprehensive about your proximity
to these icebergs ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And for that reason you did not think it necessary
to increase the official lookout ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And that was not done ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sip.
Senator Smith. From 6 until 10 o'clock was the captain on the
bridge at all ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, Sir.
Senator Smith. When did he arrive ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Five minutes to 9.
Senator Smith. Five minutes to 9 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. But he was not there from 6 o'clock until five min-
utes of 9 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not see him, sir.
Senator Smith. You would have seen him if he had been there,
would you not?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. If he had been actually on the bridge, yes, I should
have seen him.
Senator Smith. You did not see him?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not see him.
Senator Smith. And you were there during all that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Dupuig all that time.
Senator Smith. When he came to the bridge at five minutes of 9.
what did he say to you or what did you say to him? Who spoke
first?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir. Probably one of us setid
*'Good evening."
Senator Smith. But you do not know who ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
( ( ^ . ^ f f
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 67
Senator Smith. Was anything else said ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes. We spoke about the weather; calmness of
the sea; the clearness; about the time we should be getting up toward
the vicinit^r of the ice and how we should recognize it if we should see
it — freshenmg up our minds as to the indications that ice gives of
its proximity. Weiust conferred together, generally, for 26 minutes.
Senator Smith. For 20 or 26 minutes ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yos, sir.
Senator Smith. Was any reference made at that time to the wire-
less message from the America?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Capt. Smith made a remark that if it was in a
slight degree hazy there would be no doubt we should have to go very
slowly.
Senator Smith. Did you slow up ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You would have known if it had been done, would
you not, during your watch ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xot neccssarfly so, sir.
Senator Smith. Who would give the command?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The commander would send orders down to the
chief engineer to reduce her by so many revolutions.
Senator Smith. Through a megaphone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; by wt)rd of hand.
Senator Smith. By speaking tube ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; by word of hand; notes.
Senator Smith. Did you see anything of that kind done?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I did not see it on the bridge.
Senator Smith. And the captain was on the bridge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did he remain on the bridge after coming
there at 6 minutes of 9 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He remained there until about 20 minutes past
9, or something like that.
Senator Smith. About 20 minutes past 9 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 25 minutes altogether.
Senator Smith. Then did he leave the bndge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He left the bridge.
Senator Smith. With any special injunction upon you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. **If in the slightest degree doubtful, let me
know."
Senator Smith. What did you say to him ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. ''All right, sir."
Senator Smith. You kept the ship on its course ?
^. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
* Senator Smith. And at about the same speed ?
. 'Ml. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir; as far as I know.
Senator Smith. When did you next see the captain ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When I came out of the quarters, after the im-
pact.
Senator Smith. You mean that he did not return to the bridge
until your watch expired ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
88 TITAKIO VaUkBTKB,,
m
Senator Smith. About 10 o'clock ?
Mr. LiOHTOiXBB. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You left ?
ISt. Lightollbr. Yes, sir.
Senator Sbiith. And Murdock took command ?
Mr. Liohtolleb. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know where you were at the hour that you
turned over the watch to Mr. Murdock f
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not now, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know at the time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you give us any idea?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When Tended the watch we roughly judged that
we should be getting toward the vicinity of the ice, as reported by
that Marconigram that I saw, somewhere about 1 1 o'clock.
Senator Smith. That you would be in that latitude ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Longitude.
Senator Smith. At 11 o'clock.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Somewherc about 11; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you talk with Mr. Murdock about that phase
of it when you left the watch ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About what ?
Senator Smith. I say, did vou talk with Mr. Murdock about the
iceberg situation when you left the watch ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he ask you anything about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What was said between you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We remarked on the weather, about its bein^
calm, clear. We remarked the distance we could see. We seemed
to be able to see a long distance. Everything was very clear. We
oeuld see the stars setting down to the horizon.
Senator Smith. It was cold, was it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Sharp ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. How cold was it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Thirty-one, sir.
Senator Smith. Above zero?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Tliirty-one degrees above zero, yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that unusually cold for that longitude?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, Sir.
Senator Smith. At that time of the year?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smiih. Did you see Mr. Murdock after that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, air; I saw him when I came out of the
quarters after the impact.
Senator Smith. Wliere was he ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the bridge.
Senator Smith. With the captain?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. One on one side, and one on the other side of thi
bridge; one on each side.
Senator Smith. Did you speak to him after that ?
Mr. liiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
if ».W^.L T_..^,^_ 99
TTTANIC DISASTER. 69
Senator Smith. I mean after he took the watch ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You never spoke to him again ?
Mr. Lightolleb. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were not together when you finally parted
from the sliip ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLEB. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You saw him on the bridge at that time?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Immediately after the impact; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he remain there until the end ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He was getting the boats out on the starboard
side later on.
Senator Smith. Later?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see liim at that work?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I was on the port side.
Senator Smith. How do joxk know that ne did it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I saw him at the last boat.
Senator Smith. Just what time he left the bridge, I don't suppose
you know ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where did you last see the captain?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. On the boat deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long before the vessel sank?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could Hot say, sir; I saw him about the boat
deck two or three times. I had occasion to go to him.
Senator Smith. Was the vessel broken in two in any manner, or
intact i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Absolutely intact.
Senator Smith. On the decks ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. lutact, sir.
Senatc^r Smith. When you came cut of your room after the impact,
did you see any ice c n the decks ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see or hear any exclamations of pain?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether anyone was injured ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
vSenator Smith. By ice on deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell us, as nearly as you can, just where you saw
the captain last, with reference to the smking of this ship.
Mr. L.IGHTOLLER. I think the bridge was the last place I saw him,
sir; I am not sure. I think he was crossing the briage.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Walking across.
Senator Smith. From one side to the other ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; just coming across. I merely recog-
nized a glimpse. I have a sUght recollection of having seen him
whilst I was walking. It is my recollection that I saw him crossing
the bridge. I think that was the last.
70 TITANIC DISABTBB.
Senator Smith. How large was this bridge ? How lai^e was it on
the Titanic t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It extends the width of the ship, sir.
Senator Smith. It extends the width of the ship I
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir; and 18 inches over each side.
Senator Smith. And how far forward ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In amidships, about 20 feet; in the wings, about
10 feet.
Senator Smith. When you saw him was he siving any orders ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was not near enough to Know, sir.
Senator Smith. How near were you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 60 feet away.
Senator Smith. What did he seem to be doing — pacing ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; not pacing. Just walking straight
across, as if he had some object that he was walking toward.
Senator Smith. He was walking from one side to the other ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir; from starboard to port.
Senator Smith. Did that give him a full sweep of view of the situ
ation ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If he had been giving orders would you hav
heard them ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not hear any such thing at that time
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At that time; no, sir.
Senator Smith, WTiat were the last orders you heard him give ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When I asked him, "Shall I put the women an
children in the boats?" he replied, "Yes; and lower away.'' The?
were the last orders he gave.
Senator Smith. Where was he at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About abreast the No. 6 boat.
Senator Smith. How lon^ was that before the ship sunk?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Approximately somewhere about a quarter to
say. I don't know what time it was, sir. It would be only a gues
Senator Smith. It was after this impact ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. After the collision ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. And about how long after? What time did t
collision occur ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know. I understand — I only gather it
that it occurred shortly before 12 o'clock.
Senator Smith. When you heard it, did you look at your wat
or make a note of it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How long was the vessel afloat after this collisic
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I do not know either, only from what X \'
told.
Senator Smith. ^Vhat were you told ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was told she sunk at 2.20.
Senator Smith. Who told you that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We came to the conclusion amongst the ofiie^
by various indications.
i< -^».^«,^ ff
TITAKIO PISASTBE. 71
Senator Smith. Did any officer that you communicated with know
the exact moment of this impact or collision ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Of course you had a watch with you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLBR. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have a watch in your room ?
Mr. LiiQHTOLLEB. In my room; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you keep it or is it gone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Oh, it is gone, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not know whether it was running or
stopped ? You did not look at it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I did not look at it, sir.
Senator Smith. You asked the captain on the boat deck whether
the lifeboats should take the women and children first, if I understand
you correctly ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Not quite, sir; I asked him: *' Shall I put the
women and children in the boats?'' The captain rephed, '* les, and
lower awav."
Senator Smith. What did you then do ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I Carried out his orders.
Senator Smith. Except as to this one boat that could not be
lowered ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I am speaking of the port side of the ship. I
was running the port side only.
Senator Smith. Were all the boats lowered on the port side ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. They were all lowered with the exception of one^
the last boat, which was stowed on top of the officers' quarters. We
had not time to launch it nor yet to open it.
Senator Smith. I did not get the first word. Was it injured ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No, sir; I said it was stowed on top of the
officers' quarters. And when all the other boats were away, I called
for men to go up there, told them to cut her adrift and throw her
down.
Senator Smith. How did it happen to be stowed up there ? Was
that an unusual place for it ?
Mr. LiGHTQLLEB. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Well, what happened to that boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. It floated off the ship, sir.
Senator Smith. It floated off ?
ilr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes.
Senator Smith. Without anyone in it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I Understand the men standing on top, who
assisted to launch it down, jumped onto it as it was on the deck and
floated off with it.
Senator Smith. What type of boat was it ?
Mr. IjIOHtolleb. Collapsible.
Senator Smith. Did you see it afterwards?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Eventually. It was the boat that I got on.
Senator Smith. Eventually that was the boat that you got on ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Ycs, sir* bottom up.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain after that final order with
reference to the women and children ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where?
72 '' TITAKIC " mSASTEB.
Mr. LiaHTOLLER. Walking across the bridge, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any further communication with him !
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; none.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, was that the last place that
he was seen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You don't know what occurred to the captain after
that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. This lifeboat which was taken from the top of the
officers' quarters, and that you finally reached, contained how many
people ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When it floated off the ship ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say how many.
Senator Smith. How many after you had gotten into it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We were thrown off a couple of times. It was
cleared; it was a flat, collapsible boat. When I came to it, it was
bottom up, and there was no one on it.
Senator Smith. No one on it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And it was on the other side of the ship.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you came to it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I huHg OH tO it.
Senator Smith. You floated with it merely ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that all the service it ever rendered ? Wa
that the only service this lifeboat performed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. Eventually about 30 of us got in it.
Senator Smith. Tell us just how it occurred.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the time the ship went down, you mean i
Senator Smith. No ; from the time you round this overturned Uf e
boat.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. Immediately after finding that ovei
turned lifeboat, and when I came up alongside of it, there were quit
a lot of us in the water around it preparatory to getting up on it.
Senator Smith. With life preservers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. Then the forward funnel fell down
Senator Smith. Were there any persons there without life pr<
servers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. Not that I know of. The forwar
funnel faUing down, it fell alongside of the lifeboat, about 4 inch(
clear of it.
Senator Smith. What was this that fell ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The forward funnel.
Senator Smith. Did it strike the boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It Hiisscd the boat.
Senator Smith. Then what ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It fell on all the people there were alongside of tl
boat, if there were any there.
Senator Smith. Injure any of them seriously?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. 1 could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did it kill anybody t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Was this vessel sinking pretty rapidly at that
time?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Pretty quickly, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the men who were in the
water as vou were and who boarded this lifeboat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Give their names.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Thayer, a first-class passenger; the second
Marconi operator — I can tell vou his name in a minute — ^Bride.
Senator Smith. Was that the boat that Col. Gracie
Mr. laGHTOLLER. Oh, yes; and Col. Gracie.
Senator Smith. Col. Gracie. of the United States Annv?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think I have his card.
Senator Smith. It was Col. Gracie, anyway t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Col. Gracio was on the upturned boat with me;
res.
Senator Sbiith. Was he on the upturned boat before you got it
righted around ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We never righted it.
Senator Smith. You never riglited it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, SIT; we could not.
Senator Smith. Who else was there ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think all the rest were firemen taken out of the
water, sir. Tliose are the only passengers that I know of.
Senator Smith. No other passengers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. There were two or three that died. I think there
were tliree or four who died during the night.
Senator Smith. Aboard this boat with you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir; I think the senior Marconi operator was
on the boat and died. The Marconi junior operator told me that the
senior was on this boat and died.
Senator Smith. From the cold ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Presumably.
Senator Smith. Not from the blow of this
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ; not that I know of.
Senator Smith. How many persons altogether ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should rouglily estimate about 30. She was
packed standing from stem to stem at daylight.
Senator Smith. Was there anv effort made by others to board her ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We took all on board that we could.
Senator Smith. I understand, but I wanted to know whether there
was any effort made by others to get aboard ?
Mr. LiiGHTOLLER. Not that I saw.
Senator Smith. There must have been a great number of people in
the water ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. But not near us. They were some distance away
from us.
Senator Smfth. How far ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It Seemed about a half a mile.
Senator Smith. Was not this the only raft or craft in sight ?
}St, LiGHTOLLER. It was dark, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Yes. But this was the only thing there was to
get on at that time?
74 " TliPl^ANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LioHTOLLEB. With the exception of the wreckage.
Senator Smith. With the exception of what floated off the ship t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In the form of wreckage ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Col. Gracie ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I don't know whether I saw him, sir. I met
him on the Carpaihia afterwards, of course.
Senator Smith. Do you remember seeing him in the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who took command of that overturned Ufeboat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did, as far as command was necessary.
Senator Smith. Did your judgment rule the conduct of those on it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, Sir; that is my reason for saying that I
believe it was mostly the crew of the snip, because of the implicit
obedience.
Senator Smith. When you left the ship, did you see any women or
children on board ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Noue whatever.
Senator Smith. Could you give us any estimate whatever as to
the number of first and second class passengers that were on board
when the ship went down ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any on the so-called boat deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there quite a number, in your opinion ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A number of people — ^what they were, first
second, or third, crew or firemen, I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. But there were many people still on the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And, so far as you could observe, could you tel
whether they were equipped with life preservers i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as I could see, throughout the whole o
the passengers, or the whole of the crew, everyone was equipped wit]
a life preserver, for I looked for it especially.
Senator Smith. Were the passengers on those decks instructed a
any time to go to one side or the other of the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. What do you know about that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When tne ship was taking a heaw list — ^not
heavy list — but she was taking a list over to port, tne order wi
called, I think, by the chief officer, ^'Everyone on the starboard sic
to straighten her up," which I repeated.
Senator Smith. How long before you left the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. About how long ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Half an hour or three quarters of an hour.
Senator Smith. Before you left ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Smith. How were these passengers selected in going
the lifeboats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By their sex.
Senator Smith. Whenever you saw a woman?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Precisely.
it ..w^.w*.^ ff
TlTAlfflO DIfiASTfiS. 75
Senator Smith. She was invited to go into one of these boats %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Excepting the stewardesses. We turned several
of those away.
Senator SMrrn. Except the employees ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Except the stewardesses; yes.
Senator Smith. And did you see any attempt made to get women
to enter the lifeboats who refused to go ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yos, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I couldn't say, sir.
Senator Smith. Several ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A few.
Senator Smith. What reason was given why they did not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I had not time; I didn't notice. Merely they
would not come.
Senator Smith. Did they ask that their families be taken ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes; one or two.
Senator Sboth. And were f amiUes taken, to your knowledge %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not to mv knowledge.
Senator Smith. Were the boat that was on top of the officers'
quarters that overturned, and the boat that was stuck in the tackle
both made use of in any way, or but one ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. But One.
Senator Smith. So that altogether there were how many life-
boats actually used ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nineteen.
Senator Smith. How many actually picked up by the Carpathiat
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. All accounted for.
Senator Smith. One, however, was badly injured, and another life-
boat took the passengers from it, did they not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That was the upturned one that I was on.
Senator Smith. That was the upturned one that you were on ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. And they took you into another lifeboat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. All of those who were with you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was tJie lifeboat full at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I counted 65 heads, not including myself or any
that were in the bottom of the boat. I roughly estimated about 75
in the boat.
Senator Smith. Was the boat safe with that number of people in it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Safe in smooth water only.
Senator Smith. How many of those lifeboats did you help load ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. All except one or two on the port side.
Senator Smith. Who determined the number of people who should
go into the lifeboats ?
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. I did.
Senator Smith. How did you reach a conclusion as to the number
that should be permitted to go in ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. My own judgment about the strength of the
tackle.
Senator Smith. How many did you put in each boat ?
76 *^ TJTANIC DieAfTlBB.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. In the first boat I put about 20 or 25. Twenty,
sir.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
ISt. Liohtoller. No men.
Senator Smith. How many seamen ?
Mr, Liohtoller. Two.
Senator Smith. In the first boat ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Yes, su*.
Senator Smith. Was that sufficient to take care of the boat)
Mr. Liohtoller. We wanted them on deck.
Senator Smith. For what purpose ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Lowering away the boats.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that there would not have been suffi-
cient on deck and to man the lifeboats at the same time ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Not to distribute more than two to a boat, sir.
It would not be safe.
Senator Smith. That is not the usual requirement, is it — two to a
boat!
Mr. Liohtoller. Quite sufficient under the conditions.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, women were obliged to row
those boats for hours ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Yes, a great many did, I know.
Senator Smith. That indicated that they were not fully equipped i
Mr. Liohtoller. Not necessarily, sir.
Senator Smith. How many oars in a boat?
Mr. Liohtoller. I think it is 16, the full equipment.
Senator Smith. How many persons can use an oar at one time '
I do not mean how many can, but I mean how many ordinarily would 1
Mr. Liohtoller. Do you mean during boat practice, for instance '
Senator Smith. I should like to know how many during practice
and I should like to know how many in actual danger such as tliiii
Mr. Liohtoller. We would man about five oars a side. In th«
boat I was in we could pull only three oars.
Senator Smith. You couldn't pull at all, could you, in your boat
Mr. Liohtoller. We managed to keep our head to the sea will
three oars.
Senator Smith. You mean you got hold of three oars after thi
boat was turned over ?
Mr. Liohtoller. No, sir. The one that picked us up, afterwards
Senator Smith. You did not have any means of propelling you
craft until you were taken from this upturned boat ?
Mr. Liohtoller. A couple of bits of wood we picked up, only.
Senator Smith. You say five men on a side ?
Mr. Liohtoller. As far as I remember, five a side.
Senator Smith. Does that mean that a single individual will be «
an oar ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Not necessarily. You can do what we ca
double or treble bank.
Senator Smith. Tell me what that is.
Mr. Liohtoller. Two or three pulling abreast of one another, oi
holding an oar here, anotlier there, and another one there.
Senator Smith. Abreast ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Abreast, another couple in front turned aroui
facing and pushing the oar.
a »,•.,-. «**^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 77
Senator Smith. Pushing?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Puslung, standing up in the boat.
Senator Smith. So that it is entirely possible and often the case
that men face one another in working these oars ?
Mr. LiGHTOiXER. Precisely.
Senator Smith. And therefore, in the case of a boat with its full
complement of men, one man might be where he could see the sliip,
pulhng with his back to the sea and another with his back to the ship
and his face to the sea ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Precisely.
Senator Smith. You say there were about 25 in this first lifeboat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About that.
Senator Smith. And that it was loaded under your orders ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Under my orders.
Senator Smith. Wliat happened to that lifeboat, the first one
loaded ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was loaded and sent away from the ship.
Senator Smith. Did it net return to the ship because it was only
half loaded ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nct to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact it w'as not much more than half
I«)aded, was it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You mean its floating capacity?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER- Floating capacity; no.
Senator Smith. How did it happen you did not put more people
into that boat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Because I did net consider it safe.
Senator Smith, In a great emergency like that, where there were
limited facilities, could you not have afforded to try to put more people
into that beat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not know it was urgent then. I had no idea
it was urgent.
Senator Smith. You did not know it was urgent ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nothing like it.
Senator Smith. Supposing you had known it was urgent, what
would you have done ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I would have acted to the best of my judgment
then.
Senator Smith. Tell me what you woidd have thought wise
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I would have taken more risks. I should not
Imve considered it wise to put more in, but I might have taken risks.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact are not these lifeboats so con-
structed as to accommodate 40 people?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Sixty-five in the water, sir.
Senator Smith. Sixty-five in the water, and about 40 as they are
being put into the water ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER No, sir.
Senator Smith. How ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; it all depends on your gears, sir. If it
were an old ship, you would barely dare to put 25 in.
Senator Smith. But this was a new one ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And therefore I took chances with her afterwards.
40475— FT 1—12 6
78 '' TITANIO " DISASTEb!
Senator Smith. You put 25 in ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In the first.
Senator Smith. And two men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And two men.
Senator Smith. How were those two men selected; arbitrarily by
you?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. They were selected by me; yes.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to choose those particular
meii ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Because they were standing near.
Senator Smith. Did they want to go ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not ask them.
Senator Smifh. You did not call for volunteers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They went by my orders.
Senator Smith. You clirected that it should be done ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. And they got in ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They did.
Senator SMrrn. And 23 people besides ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should say about 24; something like that.
Senator Smith. Did you see any lifeboat return to the ship and
take on additional passengers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, Sir.
Senator Smfth. How many did the second boat contain ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 30.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two.
Senator Smith. How many women and children ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 30.
Senator Smith. Women or women and children ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should say,roughly, 30, and probably grown-ups.
Senator Smtth. Do you remember whether you counted oflF 30 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I had no time.
Senator Smith. What side were you loading on ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the port side of the ship, sir.
Senator Smith. Were those 30 lowered ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes; lowered and sent away.
Senator Smith. From what deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the boat deck.
Senator Smith. You do not know, I suppose, whether they wert*
first or second cabin passengers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. There were two men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two men, as far as I remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see that boat again alongside or any placi^
else?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By the Titanic, sir ?
Senator SMrrn. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. How many did the third boat contain ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By the time I came to the third boat I was a\^ran
that it was getting serious, and then I started to take chances.
<< «— ,. ^•^^ >»
TITAJ5JIC DISASTER. 79
Senator Smith. How long did it take to lower a boat — ^fill it and
lower it ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Just filling it and lowering it, and not clearing it
away ?
Senator Smith. Filling and lowering and clearing %
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. We clear it away first, then heave it out over
the side, then lower it down level with the rail, and then commence
to fill it with people. Previous to that we have to take the covers all
off, haul out all tne falls and coil them down clear.
Senator Smith. How long do you think it took you to uncover and
lower that lifeboat?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. It is difficult to sav, sii-; 15 or 20 minutes.
Senator Smith. Were there any UfeTboats being lowered from the
other side at the same time?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. How did it happen that you had charge of that
feature ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccausc I took charge.
Senator Smith. You took charge of it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. And where was Mr. Murdock at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as I know, he had charge of the star-
board side.
Senator Smith. How many passengers did the third boat contain ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Can only guess. I filled her up as full as I
could, and lowered her as full as I dared.
Senator Smith. How many seamen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. TwO.
Senator Smith. You followed that rule ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I followed that rule throughout.
Senator Smith. You filled it full ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As fuU as I possibly dared.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in doing it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In what manner?
Senator Smith. Were the people readv to go ? .
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perfectly quiet and ready.
Senator Smith. Anv jostlmg or pushing or crowding?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. None whatever.
Senator Smith. The men all refrained from asserting their strength
and crowding back the women and children ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They could not have stood quieter if they had
been in church.
Senator Smith. If you had filled that third boat full, how many
people would you have had in it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. What do vou mean by full ?
Senator Smith. To its full capacity.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Sixty-five.
Senator Smith. Beg pardon ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Sixty-fivc, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you think you had that many in it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Certainly not, sir.
Senator Smith. How many did you have ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Thirty-five, I should say, sir.
Senator Smith. Thirty-five ?
80 TITANIC DI8ASTBB.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About.
Senator Smith. And two men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then the fourth boat. Was there any fourth
boat on that side ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. There were eight boats to a side.
Senator Smith. As to the fourth boat, you followed the same
course ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The same order; the same conditions.
Senator Smith. You put two men in each ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I tmuk I was getting short of men, if I remember
rightly. I started to putting one seaman and a steward in.
Senator Smith. One seaman and a steward ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs. That was the boat I had to put a man
passenger in. I could only find one seaman. I had started to lower
the boat. I had to put two seamen in and then I wanted two for
lowering. It is absolutely necessary to have a seaman on each fall.
No one else can lower a boat. I was calUng for seamen, and one of
the seamen jumped out of the boat and started to lower away. The
boat was half way down when the women called out and said that
there was only one man in the boat. I had only two seamen and
could not part with them, and was in rather a fix to know what to do,
when a passenger called out and said, ''If you like, I will go.''
Senator Smith. Did you know him ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. Was he an officer of the ship ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; a first-class passenger.
Senator Smith. You don't know who ne was?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I have found out who he was since.
Senator Smith. Who was he ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Maj. Pusey.
Senator Smith. Of Toronto ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Of Toronto. That is the name, yes.
Senator Smith. Is he an officer of the British Army ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I don't know what he is. He is not a Britisher,
anyway.
Senator Smith. Did he volunteer?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. He merely said, ''I will go if you like." I said
**Are you a seaman," and he said '*I am a yachtsman." I said ''If
you are sailor enough to get out on that fall" — ^that is a difficult
thing to get to, over the ship's side, 8 feet away, and means a long
swing on a dark night — "if you are sailor enough to get out there,
you can go down." And he proved he was, by going down. And he
afterwards proved himself a brave man, too.
Senator Smith. In what respect ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. From the accounts I heard of him after we were
rescued.
Senator Smith. You mean as to liis conduct ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. As to liis conduct.
Senator Smith. In the lifeboat ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. In the lifeboat.
Senator Smith. How old a man was he, about ?
i< .««». ^—^ ff
TITANIC DI8A8TBB. 81
Mr. Ijiqhtolleb. Forty-five or fifty.
Senator Smith. Did he have any family with him ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Couldn't say, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen hipi before ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEK. Never.
Senator Smith. Have you seen him since 1
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I saw him on the Carpaihia. I made it my busi-
ness to find him.
Senator Smith. How mairy did you say you had in tliis boat ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Thirty-five; about the same, as far as I remember.
Senator Smith. That is the fourth one. How about the fifth ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. As far as I know, the conditions were the same.
Senator Smith. Did you have to call somebody from among the
. passengers ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. No, sir; I can not remember anything in particu-
lar about that boat.
Senator Smeth. About the fifth ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. No, sir; no particular incident strikes me. I was
ptting along then just as fast as ever I could. I was too quick to
bother about thin^.
Senator Smith. How manv women were you caring for ? How
many did you have aboard the ship ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I could not say.
Senator Smfth. Do you know whether they were all cared for ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. All that would go ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. In the case of the last boat I got out, I had the
utmost difficulty in finding women. It was the very last boat of all,
after all the other boats were put out and we came forward to put out
the collapsible boats. In the meantime the forward emergency boat
had been put out by one of the other officers. So we rounded up the
tackles and got the collapsible boat to put that over. Then I called
for women and could not get hold of any. Somebody said, *'Tliere
are no women.'' With this, several men
Senator Smith. Who said that ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. On what deck was that ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. On the boat deck.
Senator Smith. Were all the women supposed to be on the boat
deck?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Ycs, sir; they were supposed to be.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Becausc the boats were there. I might say that
previous to putting this berthen boat out we had lowered a boat from
A deck one deck down below. That was through my fault. It was
the first boat I had lowered. I was intending to put the passengers in
from A deck. On lowering it down I found the windows were closed.
So I sent some one down to open the windows and carried it on with
the other boats, but decided it was not worth wliile lowering them
down, that I could manage just as well from the boat deck. VVTien I
came forward from the otlier boats I loaded that boat from A deck by
getting the women out through the windows. My idea in filUng the
boats there was because there was a wire hawser running along the
siile of the ship for coaling purposes, and it was handy to tie the boat
82 TITANIC DISASTER.
in to, to hold it so that nobody could drop between the side of the boat
and the ship.
Senator Smith. Which one was that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. That is. No. 4; No. 4 boat.
Senator Smith. That was filled from there ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That was filled from there, loaded, and sent
away. Then we went to this berthen boat.
Senator Smith. In the fifth boat; how many seamen were there ^
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. As far as I remember, two seamen.
Senator Smith. Two ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many people did you put into it ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I might have put a good deal more; I filled her
up as much as I could. Wlien I got down to the fifth boat, that was
aft.
Senator Smith. You were still using your best judgment?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I was not using very much judgment then; I was
filling them up.
Senator Smith. At that time you felt
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I kncw it was a question of the utmost speetl, to
get the boats away.
Senator SMrrn. To get them away ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. les, sir.
Senator SMrrn. In that situation you were quite sure that they were
fiUed to their capacity ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I cs, sir. I don't say to their floating capacity,.
I don't say 65.
Senator Smith. But about the same number of persons were in
each boat ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I should sav 35 or 40.
Senator SMrrn. Was the sixtn one loaded in the same manner ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I think the sixth one put down was this one from
A deck that I spoke of — no, the fifth one would be from A deck. I
think the chief officer, under liis direct supervision, lowered a boat
from the after end. Of course I can not be absolutely certain. But
when I came forward, as I say, I put the one down from A deck which
I told you about. Then we went to the berthen boat, which is the
last boat on the port side, the collapsible boat.
Senator Smith. The fifth boat was lowered in the same manner i
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. I tliink it was the fifth from the A
deck.
Senator Smith. With two seamen ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. And the balance women ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Womcn and cliildren.
Senator SMrrn. Women and children ? Up to this time, so far as you
recollect, no men had been permitted to get into these boats ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. None had attempted to do so; no, sir.
Senator Smith. How about the sixth boat ?
Mr. LiGTOLLER. That is the collapsible, the surfboat?
Senator Smith. That is the collapsible. Did you take the sanit
course with that ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That is a much smaller boat.
Senator Smith. How many seamen did you put in that ?
it .^^.^^.^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTER. 83
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think there was one seaman and one steward.
I could not say.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect whether there was a light on that
boat?
Mr. LiouTOLLER. No, sir; I was not looking for lights.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect whether Afo. Douglass, of Minne-
apolis, was in that boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I dou't know her at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you had any talk with her about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Never have spoken to her or seen her, to my
knowledge.
Senator Smith. How many people were put into this sixth boatt
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Fifteen or pernaps 20. Between 15 and 20.
Senator Smith. And two seamen?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know what seamen
Senator Smith. Or one?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think one seaman probably, if I had one sea^
man there. Perhaps it was two stewards. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Would the two stewards answer the same purpose ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They would have to.
Senator Smith. Did you select the men to take that boat the same
as vou had before ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You mean whether I ordered them in ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Ordered them in.
Senator Smith. But vou can not recall who thev were ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was just thinking. No, not with any degree
of certainty?
Senator SMrrn. Were any of them officers?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in filling it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. With women: yes, sir; great difficulty.
Senator Smith. But you filled it to its capacity ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I filled it with about 15 or 20 eventually mustered
up. It took longer to fill that boat than it did any other boat, not-
withstanding that the others had more in them. On two occasions
the men thought there were no more women and commenced to get
in and then found one or two more and then got out again.
Senator Smith. How long a time do you think you had been in
loading these six boats?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I don't know, sir.
Senator Smith. If it took 15 to 20 minutes to a boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About an hour and a half.
Senator Smith. About an hour and a half?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is about right.
Senator Smith. The vessel must have been going down ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I lowercd the last boat 10 feet and it was in the
water.
Senator Smith. You lowered it 10 feet and it was in the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you began lowering, the boat was about 60
feet up from the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Seventy feet.
84 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. From the water ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I mean the deck.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From the deck; exactly, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do with tne seventh boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That was the finish.
Senator Smith. What was that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The seventh boat was the one on top of tlie
quarters.
Senator Smith. That was the last boat that was lowered by your
orders ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was the last. It was not lowered.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Ismay at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Ismay, as far as I know, from what I have
fathered afterwards, was on the starboard side of the deck whoUv,
elping out there.
Senator Smith. He did not enter the boat from the port side ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many people dp you think were in the
seventh boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. There were not any in it.
Senator Smith. I mean the sixth boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The last collapsible boat ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I say about 15.
Senator Smith. Wouldn't it hold any more than that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perhaps 20. They won't hold many. They are
canvas. They will not stand many.
Senator Smith. They won't stand very much ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. 0&, no, sir.
Senator Smith. So that they really do not answer the purpose of
a lifeboat ?
Mr. IjIGHtoller. They are not as good as a lifeboat; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Have neither the capacity nor the resistance ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. They are merely stowed in a smaller
place. Perhaps you can stow at least three of those where you can
stow one lifeboat. You can stow them one on top of the other.
Senator Smith. So far as your knowledge goes, the lifeboats oii
the port side consisted of how many lifeboats and how many of
those canvas boats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Scven lifeboats, one emergency boat, which is
on the same principle as the lifeboat, practically, only it is a smaller
and handier boat, and two collapsible boats.
Senator Smith. The one that was in the tackle was the last boat
that was attempted to be lowered on the port side ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The collapsible boat ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. How many of the collapsible boats were there
altogether on the sliip ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. t our.
Senator Smith. And 16 of another t^-pe?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
it ^» 9 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 85
Senator Smith. You must liave been painfully aware of the fact
that there were not enough boats there to care for that large passenger
list, were you not?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know who had charge on the starboard
side of the lowering and filUng of the boats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir. Merely what I am told.
Senator Smith. Wliat have you been told about it. May be we
can get sometliing from that.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as I know, and I think it is correct,
Mr. Murdock. Mr. Murdock was on the starboard side. I was on the
port side, and Mr. Murdock was on the starboard side, and the chief
officer was superintending generally, and lowered one or two boats
liimself.
Senator Smith. From whom did you get that information?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Of course, I saw Mr. Murdock there when finally
I had finished on the port side.
Senator Smith. You went to the starboard side ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On top; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. For the purpose of lowering this
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Went over to see if I could assist.
Senator Smith. And you saw liim there ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I saw him there.
Senator Smith. From any tiling you have been told, did he pursue
the same course on the starboard side in reference to tlie filling of the
lifeboats, and the complement of seamen as you did?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say.
Senator Smith. Was there any rule as to that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As to the number of seamen?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; except for boat drill. Of course, that
was not boat drill.
Senator Smith. What was the number of the ship's crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Of seamen ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About 71 seamen.
Senator Smith. Wliat constituted the crew besides seamen?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Firemen and stewards.
Senator Smith. And their force ?
;Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, yes. They mustered up something like 800,
perhaps a httle under, perlmps a*^ little over. Scmewhere around
SOO. About 800, roughlv speaking, firemen and stewards. A little
less than 800. The crew altogether is about 850 or 860; that is,
including seamen, firemen, and stewards.
Senator Smith. And you had vour full complement on this voyage?
Mr. LiGHtOLLER. As far as I Icnow.
Senator Smith. How do you account for voiu- inability to get hold
of more than nine seamen to man those lifeboats on the port side i
Mr. IjIGHTOLLEr. Earher, and before I reahzed that there was any
danger, I told off the boatswain to take some men -I didn^t say how
many, lea^nng the man to use his own judgment, to go down below and
open the gangway doors in order that the boats could come alongside
and be filled to tlieir utmost capacity. He complied with the order,
ii .^„^ }9
86 TITANIC DISASTER.
and, so far as I know, went down below, and I did not see him after-
wards. That took away a number of men, and we detailed two men
for each boat and two men for lowering down.
Senator Smith. But you did not have two men for each boat, ofii-
cer. You only had
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. So far as they will go.
Senator Smith. You only had nine seamen to seven boats?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Well, I have only been telling you approximately.
As far as ever I could I put two seamen in a boat. If I aidn't have a
seaman there I had to put a steward there.
Senator Smith. I unaerstand that.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Somctimcs there would be three seamen in a
boat. As soon as the boats were lowered to the level of the rail, 1
would detail one man to jump in and ship the rudder, one man to cast
adrift the oars, and one man would see that the plugs were in, and it
would take three men.
Senator Smith. You said you chose these men and when the life-
boat is swung out from the ship and lowered it is supposed that she
has lier full complement of oflicers and seamen, is it not %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. She is swung out and lowered to the level of the
rail, sir.
Senator Smith. Level with the rail but not against the rail?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. When you are lowereng the lifeboat you are sup-
posed to have filled it to its safe capacity %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Lowering it afterwards from the rail down. You
see we have to swing it out first of all and lower it until it is level with
the rail, so that the people can have one foot on deck and the other
foot to step into the Doat. They must be level.
Senator Smith. When you called Maj. Pusey you had no seamen \
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not that I could see, and I couldn^t waste time
looking for them.
Senator Smith. When you put the two officers, if I understand you
correctly
Mr. IjIghtoller. No officers.
Senator Smith. Stewards ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Stewards.
Senator Smith. When you put the two stewards into the lifeboat,
you had no seamen %
Mr. IjIghtoller. If I put two stewards in. As I say, I might
have put two stewards in if there were no seamen.
Senator Smith. How many of the ship's crew survived?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Seamen ?
Senator Smith. Seamen and other attaches or employees ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Forty-thrcc seamen, 96 stewards and steward-
esses, and 71 firemen.
Senator Smith. Seventy-one firemen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs.
Sejiator Smith. And how manv seamen?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Forty-thrcc.
Senator Smith. So that you lost 28 seamen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Smith. And how many of the crew have been saved alto
gether? How many survived, altogether?
it ■■.___._ ■^■■.^ ff
TITANIC " DISASTER. 87
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two hundred and ten.
Senator Smith. If the same course was followed on the starboard
side with the lifeboats that you took on the port side, how were
these men saved ?
Mr. LaoHTOLLER. I don't know^ sir. I know that a ereat number
were taken out of the water. I made it my special business to
inquire, and as far as I can gather, for every six people picked out
of the water five of them would be firemen or stewards. On our
boat, as I have said before, there was Col. Gracie and young Thayer.
I think those were the only two passengers.
Senator Smith. There were no women on the boat ?
Mr. Ljohtoller. No. I am speaking of the overturned boat.
Senator Smith. I refer to that. There were no women on your
boat i
Mr. Liohtoller. No, sir; these were all taken out of the water
and they were firemen and others of the crew.
Senator Smith. How many were there on that boat ?
Mr, Liohtoller. Roughly, about 30. I take that from my own
estimate and from the estimate of some one who was looking down
from the bridge of the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. Assuming there were 24 of those among the crew ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Yes.
Senator Smith. That would still leave 190 to get over on these
other lifeboats that were filled with women and children ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Some of the boats went back and picked up
oeople out of the wreckage after the ship had gone down, mostly
nremen and stewards.
Senator Smith. What boats ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Some of the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. Some of the lifeboats went back ?
Mr. Liohtoller. That is what I understand; of course, I don't
know.
Senator Smith. How far would they have gone ?
Mr. Liohtoller. I don't know, sir. I am only going on hearsay
now.
Senator Smith. They could not have gone very far. You will
recall that the captain of the Carpathia says that the Carpathia did
not lincer about tne scene of the collision but half an hour ?
MrTXiOHTOLLER. They could not have gone very far.
Senator Smith. These boats would not have gone very far in going
back to the scene of the wreck? You do not know of your own
knowledge that any of these lifeboats were taken back to the scene of
the wrecK by anybody ?
Mr. Liohtoller. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, after rowing these boats as far
as they were obliged to row them, in some instances several hours,
they would have had little strength to have rowed back, would they
not, assuming that the men did the work ?
Mr. Liohtoller. I know that they went back, because the men
have told me that they were picked up out of the wreckage by the
lifeboats that went back.
Senator Smith. Of your own knowledge you don't know any tiling
about these lifeboats returning t
Mr. Liohtoller. No, sir.
.J
(( »««.« ^ f>
88 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. From what you have said, you discriminated en-
tirely in the interest of the passengers — ^first the women and children —
in iilling these lifeboats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Why did you do that? Because of the .captain's
orders, or because of the rule of the sea ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The rule of human nature.
Senator Smith. The rule of human nature ? And there was no
studied purpose, as far as you know, to save the crew ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Absolutely not.
Senator Smith. The fact that you only put nine seamen into the
boats that you lowered, which were half the entire complement
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. One-third ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. About a third; perhaps a little more than a
third; not half.
Senator Smith. A little more than half when you consider that you
did not fill the boat that was on the officers' quarters that was thrown
without passengers into the sea ? .. ..
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And one other boat was so entangled in the gearing
that it was useless ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. That left 18?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Smith. Did I understand you to say that 1 of the 18 was
injured
ilr. LiOHTOLLER (interrupting). Yes, you are right; I beg your
pardon.
Senator Smith. So that this really was a Uttle more than half?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I had not thought that I put out half because 1
am imder the impression that the chief officer put out a couple of th<
after ones on my deck, as well as supervising. He evidently founc
that he had the time, and put out a couple of these boats, ancf he als<
lowered the emergency boat; so I think that is 3 he put out, out o1
10 on that side. That left me 7. I think that is about what I pvii
out: 7.
bc'iiator Smith. Did I ask you how many women and children then
were aboard ship'^
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. You did, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you reply?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Is tliere any record available here of the exac
number of passengers — men, women, and childem? Mr. Franklin
have you that ?
Mr. Franklin. That will be furnished.
Senator Smith. But you are quite clear that there were no ^H^me
tliat you could put into the last boat to fill it ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not within my sight and hearing.
Senator Smith. You were on the boat deck?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I was standing in the boat. Oh, I do know tli
steward tliat went in the boat now.
Senator Smith. Tell me who he was.
a ..»«.«,«^ ff
TITANIC DISABTEK. 89
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I do not know that I could give his name. If
he is here now, I could recognize him if I saw him.
Senator Smith. That was in the fourth boat ?
Mr. LiiOHTOLLER. No; the last boat to be lowered in the tackles;
the very last boat to be lowered in the tackles.
Senator Smith. The sixth boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir. I could not tell you his name now, but
I know there was a steward there.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Smith. Did you notice any Americans ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A plenty.
Senator Smith. Standing near you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Any amount.
Senator Smith. When you were lowering. the women?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Any amount. They gave me every assistance
they could, regardless of nationality.
Senator Smith. Didyou hear any of their names ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. What do you mean ? At that time, sir ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any of them attempt to give you their names ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recall, from anything that you heard on
shipboard, the names of any that you may have seen?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; we are not brought in contact with the pas-
sengers at all beyond going our rounds.
Senator Smith. Is it the custom, or was it the custom, of your line
to print a list of the prominent passengers ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Jfo, sIt.
Senator Smith. Or the passengers in a little leaflet ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. The first or second day out ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Was this done ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes; it is done as far as possible befor ^ we leave
home.
Senator Smith. But it is not put out until after the ship has been
to sea for a day or two, it is ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think it is possibly put out the day of sailing,
sir; but really, I coidd not answer that question.
Senator Smith. I wonder if we can obtain it.
Mr. Franklin. There is always one out the day of sailing, and
there is a corrected one out later. We can give you the one out the
dav of sailing.
J>enator Smith. That is the one I would like.
Mr. Franklin. Whether we can get you the corrected one or not
is an open nroblem.
Senator omtth. I will ask you with what type of davit was the
Titanic equipped ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. What is known as the Welin patent.
Senator Smith. Where were those passengers or people congre-
o^ated when you last saw the Tiianicf Were they huddled togetlier
u)to any special part of the ship ?
90 TITANIC DISA6TEB.
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In sinking, did the ship tilt ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To the fore ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Well, roughly, the crow's nest was level with the
water when the bridge went under water.
Senator Smith. The crow's nest, at the fore point ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. That is on the foremast. The lookout cage.
Senator Smith. The crow's nest at the highest point ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was in the water ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Was just about level with the water.
Senator Smith. When the bridge was submerged ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And about what was the angle ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. I am afraid I could hardly tell you the angle, sir.
Mr. KiRLiN. Get the plan and find the height of the crow's nest
above the deck, and that would give it.
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. The plan showing the height of the crow's nest
and the bridge would give it to you, roughly.
Senator Smith. I ask vou again. There must have been a great
number of passengers and crew still on the boat, the part of the ooat
that was not submerged, probably on the high point, so far as pos-
sible. Were they huddled together ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. I could not say, sir. They did not seem to be.
I could not say, sir; I did ndt notice; there were a great many of
them; there was a great many of them, I know, but as to what con-
dition they were in, huddled or not, I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did they make any demonstration ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. None.
Senator Smith. Was there any lamentation ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. No, sir; not a sign of it.
Senator wSmith. There must have been about 2,000 people there
on that part — the unsubmerged part of the boat ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. All the engineers and other men and many of the
firemen were down below aiid never came on deck at all.
Senator Smith. They never came on deck?
Mr, LiQHTOLLER. No, sir; they were never Seen. That would reduce
it by a great number.
Senator Smith. After this impact, did you hear any explosion o
anv kind ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. None whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. What would be the effect of water at about zero
Mr. LiQHTOLLER (interposing). At about freezing?
Senator Smith. What would be the effect of water at about freez
ing on the boilers ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. It is an open question. I have heard it sai<
that they will explode, and others say they will not.
Senator Smith. Have you ev^ known or a case ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Of a case in point ?
Senator Smith. Where they have exploded ?
" TITANIC '' DTSASTEK. 91
.,^^. Lightx>ij[.c:r. I was sucked dovvTi, and I was blown out with
^nhing pretty powerful when the ship went down.
^nator Smith. After the ship went aown ?
3fr. LioHTOi^LAR. Yes.
Senator Smith- Just describe that a little more fully. You werd
-oked down i
ilr. LiOHTOLJ^£R. I was sucked against the blower first of all. As
• >»ay, I was on t;op of the officers Quarters, and there was nothing
ni'jrf to be done. The ship then took a dive, and I turned face for-
ced and also took a. dive.
Senator Smith. From which side?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER- ProHi on top, practically midships; a little to the
"twboard side, where I had got to; and I was driven back against a
Mower — which is a large thing that shape [indicating] which faces
^►rward to the wind and which then goes down to the stokehole.
But there is a grating there, and it was against this grating that I was
^iK'ked by the i;^-ater and held there.
Senator Smith. W^ your head above water?
ilr. Lightoller- No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were under water?
ilr. LiOHTOLLER- Yes, sir. And then this explosion, or whatever
i* was, took place. Certainly, I think it was the boilers exploded.
Th(»re was a terrific blast of air and water, and I was blown out clear.
Senator Smith. Was there any debris that was blown above the
warfare \
ilr. LiGHTOLLER- That I could not say.
Senator Smith. At least you took your head out of the water?
ilr. LiGHTOLi-Eit. I came up above the water; yes.
Senator Smith. And how far from the sinking ship did it throw you ?
Mr. Lightoi-ler- Barely threw me away at all; barely threw me
awav at all, because I went down again against these fiddley gratings
immediatelv abreast of the funnel over the stokehole.
Senator Smith. Was anybody else sucked down at the time?
ilr. LiOHTOLLER. Col. uracic, I believe, was sucked down in
nientically the same manner. He was sucked down on the fiddley
gratings.
Senator Smith. There must have been considerable suction ?
^I^. LiGHTOi^i-ER. That was the water rushing down below as she
*as going down.
Senator Smith. Going down into the ship ?
Mr. L1GHTOL.LBR. Exactly.
Senator Smith. How did you get released from that ?
^Ir. LiGHTOLLKR. Oh, I don't know, sir. I think it was the boilers
u^ain, but I do not distinctly remember. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Where did vou next find yourself?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Alongside of that raft.
Senator Smith- "VMiere?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Alongside of that upturned boat that had been
launched on the other side.
Senator Smith. Where had you gone at that time? Had you gone
un»un*l the ship?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir: the boat had come around.
Senator Smith. Was there anyone on it ?
Mr. Lightoller, I don't think so. I think they were around it.
(I ^.^ ^ ff
92 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Your position had not changed, but the boat's
position had ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any water-tight compartments in that
ship?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I coukl not tell you ofThand, sir; 40 or 50.
Senator Smith. Nearly 50 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Say 40 or 50; I can not tell you offhand.
Senator Smith. How were they constructed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Thcj were divisional bulkheads; w^ater-tight
doors, operated by electncity or mechanically.
Senator Smith. Were those water-tight compartments known to
the passengers or crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They must have been.
Senator Smith. How would they know it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By the plans distributed about the ship.
Senator Smith. Were tliey advised at any time that tnere were
water-tight compartments — about how many ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Forty or fifty.
Senator Smith. Were they advised that there were 40 or 50 water-
tight compartments ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You heard nothing of tliat kind and gave no such
warning yourself ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So you are unable to say whether any of the creuir
or passengers took to these water-tight compartments as a final last
resort ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I am quite unable to say, sir.
Sentaor Smith. Is that at all likely?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; very unlikely.
Senator Smith. As for yourself, you preferred to take your chance
in the open sea ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Undoubtedly.
Senator Smith. Where were those compartments with reference to
the boat deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bolow the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. How far below ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They extend from the bottom of the ship about
four decks up.
Senator Smith. Would they extend up as high as 50 feet ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About tfiat.
Senator Smith. Above the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, they are above the water line ; they extend
above the water hne.
Senator Smith. Arc they all above the water Une ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; from the bottom of the sliip up to above
the water line.
Senator Smith. Have you been m any of the water-tight com-
partments of the Titanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I havc been in all of them.
Senator Smith. Wliat are these doore made of?
it -»».«..^ yf
TITANIC DISA8TBB. 98
Mr. LiGHTouLER. As far as I understand, of metal for that purpose.
Senator Smith. And how are they fastened ? Are they locked by
bar, or bolt, or key ?
Mr. LiGHTOLiLER. The lower section of the water-tight doors fore
and aft the ship are operated by electricity and they automaticaUy
lock themselves, and can not be touched wmlst the current is on.
Senator Smith. How can they be opened ?
Mr. LiGHTOLXiEB. By switching the current off and opening them
bv hand down below.
«
Senator Smith. If there were no current how could they be opened t
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. By hand.
Senator Smith. In what manner ?
Mr. L1GHTOL.LER. By ratchet and screw, lever and cogwheel.
Senator Smith. A person would have to be rather famiUar with
that construction in order to open them ?
Mr. L10HTOL.LER. No, sir; tne handle is right alongside every
door, and the manner for opening them is obvious.
Senator Smith. But when the doors are closed and the current
is on ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I am only speaking of those at the bottom of
the ship.
Senator Smith. Let us go up a little higher, and tell me about the
doors, and the construction there.
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. They are operated by hand, closed by lever.
They can be closed from the deck above, or from the deck you are on.
There is a speciaUy constructed key that fits into the deck above.
When you turn it around, the door closes. One man can close or
open it"
Senator Smith. You must first have a key ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEK. Ycs; keys are kept alongside of the doors. When
the door is closed it so engages ^ system or series of wedges that it
is water-tight.
Senator Sbiith. What are these water-tight compartments for?
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. To shut out the water, retaining the water in one
compartment, to prevent its going fore and aft the ship.
Senator Smith. Are they intenaed as a refuge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. In no way, sir.
Senator Smith. I mean as a refuge for passengers or crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, dear; no, sir.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At no time, sir.
Senator Smith. These compartments are not lighted? They have
no lights ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Let me explain, sir. You take one section of the
>hip. and it is a water-tight compartment. It may be a passenger's
rf>om, it may be a part of the tunnel; it may be part of the stokehole,
or wherever it happens to be; that is a compartment.
Senator Smith. A passenger's room, you say?
ilr. LiGHTOLLER. A scries of rooms may be contained in this com-
partment.
Senator Smith. A suite ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A half dozen suites.
Senator Smith. Several rooms ?
40475— PT 1—12 7
€€ ->.^.^.,^ 9f
94 XITA17I0 DISASTEB.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes. Take this as a ship [illustrating]. She
may be divided across there and there [indicating], or the whole of
that across here; everything that is included in that space, all the
way down, is the compartment. The compartment consists of every-
thing there is between these two divisional sections.
Senator Smith. That compartment is so constructed that water
can not enter it ? Suppose this ship had sunk in a less depth of water,
would that kind of a compartment have been a desirable place of
refuge ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; they are to prevent the ship sinking.
Senator SMrrn. I mean with all other hope gone.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. With no more lifeboats and no relief in sight, would
that have been a place of refuge ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It is not intended as such ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; in no way.
Senator Smith. How much of the ship had gone down when vou
left it ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I Went under water on top of the officers' quar-
ters, immediatelv at the fore part of the forward funnel ; so she was
under water at the fore part oi the forward funnel.
Senator Newlands. You say that after you came up and you
attached yourself to this raft the funnel fell upon those who were upon
one side of the raft ?
Mr. LiGHLOTTER. I sav the funnel fell down, and if anybody was on
that side of the raft it fell on them.
Senator Newlands. Then by that time the entire ship was not
submei^ed ?
Mr. Lightoller. Oh, dear, no; not by considerable.
Senator Newlands. What portion of the ship was out of water
at that time ?
Mr. Lightoller. The stern of the ship was completely out of the
water.
Senator Smith. It was out of water, at an angle ?
Senator Newlands. Yes. I see.
Senator Smfth. What other officers besides yourself survived ?
Mr. Lightoller. The third, fourth, and fiftn, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you kindly rive their names ?
Mr. Lightoller. Mr. Pitman, tnird officer; Mr. Boxhall, fourth
officer; and Mr. Lowe, fifth officer.
Senator Smith. You had better give their initials.
Mr. Lightoller. Mr. H. J. Pitman, third officer; Mr. J. G. Box-
hall, fourth officer; and Mr. G. Lowe, fifth officer.
Senator Smith. We shall hold an evening session, beginning at half
past 8 o'clock.
Whereupon, at 7.20 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until 8.30
p. m.
(t «.^-.. ^^^^ fy
TITANIC DISASTEK. ft$
EVENING SESSION.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 8.30 o'clock
p. m,, Senator William Alden Smith (chairman) presiding
TESTIMONT OF HASOLD THOHAS COTTAM.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, what is your full name ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Harold Thomas Cottam.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside?
Mr. Cottam. Liverpool, England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Cottam. Twenty-one.
Senator Smith. What is your busmess?
Mr. Cottam. Marconi telegraphist.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in that busi-
ness?
Mr. Cottam. Three years.
Senator Smith. Where have you been employed ?
Mr. Cottam. In the Marconi Co. all the time.
Senator Smith. How extensively; that is, how many different
employments ?
Mr. Cottam. I went to sea first. Then I was taken off there and
worked for the British post office for a time.
Senator Smith. In wnat capacity?
Mr. Cottam. As telegraphist, on one of their land stations.
Senator Smith. Under the British post-office authorities?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Cottam. At Liverpool.
Senator Smith. How long were you thus employed?
Mr. Cottam. About 14 to 16 months.
Senator Smith. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Cottam. I was taken off there and went away to sea again, on
the Australian run.
Senator Smith. On what boat ?
Mr. Cottam. The Medic, White Star.
Senator Smith. How long were you on the Medic?
Mr. Cottam, Two voyages-
Senator Smith. Were you wireless telegrapher at that time ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Two voyages?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Out and right back?
Mr. Cottam. Yes; return voya es.
Senator Smith. From Liverpool ?
Mr. Cottam. To Australia and back to Liverpool again.
Senator Smith. What kind of apparatus was there on the Medic?
Mr. Cottam. A Marconi, sir.
Senator Smith. What tvpe of instrument or equipment ?
Mr. Cottam. A one ana a half watt set, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the maximum wave length ?
Mr. Cottam. A standard wave length, sir; 2,000 feet.
96 '' TITAKIO '' DI8ASTBB.
Senator Smith. Did you have chaise of the wireless on that boat ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Chief in charge ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Only one man, sir.
Senator SMrrn. What was your next employment?
Mr. CoTTAM. On the Carpathia, sir.
Senator Smith. How lotig were you on the CarpatJiiaf
Mr. Cotton. I joined her in Liverpool, last February, sir.
Senator Smith. You have been with the CarpcUhia ever since ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did jou ship with her from New York ?
Mr. CorrAM. From Liverpool, sir.
Senator Smith. From New York the other day ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What day ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not remember, the day. About the 10th or llth,
I think, sir.
Senator Smith. On her last outward voyage ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was she headed for ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Gibraltar, sir.
Senator Smith. Did she have a wireless equipment ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What kind ?
Mr. CoTTAM., Marconi, sir.
Senator Smith. Up-to-date equipment ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; it was an older type.
Senator Smith. What was the maximum distance with which that
equipment could be operated successfully ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Two hundred and fifty miles.
Senator Smith. Did you obtain satisfactory results from 250-iiiile
experiments ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the Carpathiaf
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You were on the boat last Sunday ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What were your hours of employment ?
Mr. CoTTAM. There are no stated hours. There is only one man
on the boat.
Senator Smith. I understand; but what periods during the day and
ni^ht are you expected to be at your instrument t
Mr. CoTTAM. It all depends on where you are. If you were in the
vicinity of New York or thereabouts you would be expected to be on
duty all the time.
Senator Smith. Night and day ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that practicable ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In making the voyage from New York to Gibraltar,
after you have gotten out to sea, there is no rigid rule which requires
you to be at your post ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
^< ».*,«. ■.*,^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 97
Senator Smith. No regulation of the British Government ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. No direction by the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; but you are more or less responsible for com-
munications which are expected.
Senator Smith. You are responsible for communication ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; if there is a ship expected, sir. If a ship is
expected to pass at 3 o'clock in the morning you should be at duty at
that time to establish communication.
Senator Smith. Has it been your custom to go to the apparatus at
re^lar times ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you employed at anything else on the boat ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What wages do you receive ?
Sir. Cottam. Four pounds ten a month.
Senator Smith. Four pounds ten shillings a month ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And board ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And room 1
Mr. Cottam. The room is attached to the operating room ?
Senator Smith. Is that the average wage of wireless telegraphers
in England?
Mr. Cottam. I can not say that it is.
Senator Smith. To whom do you report aboard ship ?
Mr. Cottam. To the captain.
Senator Smith. Personally?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And from whom do you take orders ?
Mr. Cottam. From the captain, sir.
Senator Smith. Personally.
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. From anyone else ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. From the officer on watch ? Do you take orders
from him?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not without I have the authority of the
captain.
Senator Smith. Not without the direction of the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Would you take orders from anyone except the
captain of the ship while you were aboard ship? Suppose Mr.
Marconi or some officer of the Marconi Co. gave orders to you by
wireless which you should pick up, would you consider it your duty
to take them from the officers oi the Marconi Co. while vou were at
sea?
Mr. Cottam. Not before the captain of the ship, sir.
Senator Smith. Then I am to understand you have no specified
hours when you shall be in attendance at your instrument ?
Mr. Cottam. During the whole of the day, sir; not necessarily at
night.
Senator Smith. During all the day ?
Mr. Cottam. The whole of the day, daytime, but not at nights.
98 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Are you at liberty to retire at nights when you
please ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith, And what has been your custom in that regard,
what time wouldyou retire ?
Mr. CoTTAM. While at sea I should retire about midnieht.
Senator SMrrn. Where is this instrument located on the ship ?
Mr. CoTTAM. On the Carpathia, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes; where?
Mr. CoTTAM. On the after part of the ship.
Senator Smith. On what deck ?
Mr. CJoTTAM. On an island above the second-class smoking roona.
Senator Smith. What have you there, a room ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Or two rooms ?
Mr. Cottam. One room.
Senator Smith. And you say you are at liberty to retire at night
when you please ?
Mr. Cottam. Everything depends on circumstances.
Senator Smith. What woida it depend on ?
Mr. Cottam. If I had work to get off and I could not get it oflF
before the early hours of the morning, I should have to stay up to
attend to it.
Senator Smith. That is, commercial work ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Sending messages for your passengers ?
Mr. Cottam. Or for the captain; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At night you are not open for commercial business ?
Mr. Cottam. Never have done it; only with the" captain, sir.
Senator Smith. Or official business ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you able to get the best results in the daytime
or in the night ordinariljf ?
Mr. Cottam. In the night.
Senator Smith. Can you tell why that is — why that is so ?
Mr. Cottam. Owing to a certain state of the atmosphere. I do
not know what the state is.
Senator Smith. And yet at night you undertake to do no business,
or are your customers lacking at night ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The passengers on the boat do not seek to do
business at night ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you any rules which require you to use your
instrument or put it in position to be used for distress calls every
hour of the day or any hour of the day?
Mr. Cottam. There is nothing in the Marconi system that would
detect the signals if the operator is not present.
Senator Smith. That is, no warning or alarm ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that true of the more modern equipment?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. They have an alarm ?
Mr* Cottam. No, sir.
** TITANIC ^' DISASTER. 99
Senator Smith. They have none ?
Mr. CkyiTAM. No^ir.
Senator Smith. What were you doing last Sunday evening about
10 o'clock? •
Mr. CoTTAM. Receiving the news from Cape Cod, the long-distance
station.
Senator Smith. Receiving news from Cape Cod?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What kind of news ?
Mr. Cottam. General news.
Senator Smith. General news for the accommodation for passengers
on ship?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you specified hours for that purpose?
Mr. Cottam. We are not obliged to take the news, sir.
Senator Smith. You are not obliged to take it ?
Mr. Cottam. That is right.
Senator Smith. But on this occasion you did take it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did you take it ?
Mr. Cottam. I did not start to take it
Senator Smith. How far were you from Cape Cod ?
Mr. Cottam. I could not tell vou the exact distance.
Senator Smith. About how far? What was the required wave
lenffth ? Can you tell, or did you do any sending?
Mr. Cottam. No transmitting.
Senator Smith. No transmitting; just receiving?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. After you finished the' Cape Cod business, what did
vou do then ?
Mr. Cottam. At the latter end of the news from Cape Cod, he was
sending a lot of messages for the Titanic,
Senator Smith. What time was that ?
Mr. Cottam. About 11 o'clock.
Senator Smith. What had you been doing just preceding the
message from the Titanicf
Mr. Cottam. Reporting the day's communications to the bridge.
Senator Smith. Had you closed your station for the night?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. What do you do when you close your station;
anything ?
ilr. Cottam. No; there is nothing particular done.
Senator Smith. Nothing?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. You do not have to detach any battery wires ?
Mr. Cottam. Switch the charging battery out, the storage battery.
We switch that out for the night.
Senator Smith. Switch the storage battery out ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Does that "kiir' the instrument?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Can you receive messages with that out?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
100 TITAJSriC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. But you can not send them ?
Mr. OoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. You can both receive and send them?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Well, then, what in reality have you done when
you shift this battery connection?
Mr. CoTTAM. I have taken them off charge, sir.
Senator Smith. Does that lessen the likelinood of your getting any
signal of any kind ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not in the least.
Senator Smith. I believe you told us how far this equipment on the
Carpaihia would send a message with accuracy, did you not?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. About 250 miles, I tliink you said ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was there any thunder or lightning or cloud that
ni^ht?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Sunday night ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It was a clear night?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to catch this communication
from the Titanic "i
Mr. Cottam. I was looking out for the Parisian, to confirm a pre-
vious communication with the Parisian.
Senator Smith. You had been in communication with the Parisian
that day ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not say. At some time in the afternoon, sir.
Senator Smith. Not a distress signal ?
Mr. Cottam. Oh, no, sir.
Senator Smith. Some commercial or business communication ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far was the Parisian from you ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You have no means of knowing ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Her position was not stated ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smfth. Ifou had been in communication with the Parisiaft
that afternoon ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And this Sunday evening you were looking out for
further communication from that ooat ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Well, how did you happen to be at your instrument t
Mr. Cottam. I say, I was confirming or attempting to confirm a
previous communication with the Parisian — I was not sure of her
communication.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the captain of the Carpathia to-day ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. He said you were about to retire.
tt .« ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 101
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And caught this message rather providentially i
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far had you gotten along in your arrange-
ments to retire ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Well, I was about to retire.
Senator Smith. Had you disrobed — taken off your clothes ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you taken oflf your shoes ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you taken off any of your clotliing ?
Mr. Cottam. I had my coat off.
Senator Smith. When you took your coat off, did you have any
instruments attached on your head ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. What?
Mr. Cottam. Telephones.
Senator Smfth. How did you happen to leave that on ?
Mr. Cottam. I was waiting for tne Parisian,
Senator Smith. How long would you have waited; just long enough
to undress?
Mr. Cottam. I would have waited a couple of minutes. I had just
called the Parisian and was waiting for a reply, if there was one.
Senator Smith. And you had just called Tier?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And did not know whether she had gotten it or not ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you were waiting for an acknowledgment ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So you kept this telephone on your ears, on your
head?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On your head ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. With the hope that before you got into bed you
might have your message confirmed ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that what you had in mind ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. What did you hear at that time ?
Mr. Cottam. I heard nothing, sir.
Senator Smith. How soon? You heard something pretty quick,
did vou not ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I went back onto Cape Cod again.
Senator Smith. And still left this apparatus on ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you send a message to Cape Cod ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Cape Cod send a message to you ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Then, as a matter of fact, vou did not get back to
Cape Cod ?
ifr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How ?
102 TITANIC DI8A8TBB.
Mr. CoTTAM. They were sending it for the trans-Atlantic two-man
ships. They were sending the news to the senior ships.
Senator Smith. Where f
Mr. CoTTAM. These ships that contribute to the Marconi press.
Senator Smith. An intermediate communication, intermediate sta-
tion?
Mr. CoTTAM. Xo, sir; Cape Cod, which is the Atlantic station.
Senator Smith. You got mto communication ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. With one of the Marconi stations ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I did not establish it. I was receiving the press com-
munications from Cape Cod.
Senator Smith. While you were undressing there ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I was not undressing.
Senator Smith. After you had taken off your coat ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And then did you sit down to your instrument ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And received this message ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I received about four.
Senator Smith. In how many minutes?
Mr. CoTTAM. About seven or eight minutes.
Senator Smith. You received four in seven or eight minutes ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did that include anything from the Parisianf
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Simply this Cape Cod relay service ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, , sir; sending messages for the Titanic. I was
taking the messages down with the hope of retransmitting them the
following morning.
Senator Smith. Let us understand that a little. When did you
first know anything about the Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. I had had communication with her late in the after-
noon, half past 5 or 6.
Senator Smith. A stray communication, or one addressed to the
Carpathiaf
\lr. Cottam. One addressed to the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. What did it say ?
Mr. Cottam. It was a message lor one of our passengers aboard.
Senator Smith. For whom?
Mr. Cottam. Mrs. Marshal.
Senator Smith. A commercial message, an official message?
Mr. Cottam. A commercial message.
Senator Smith. So that was the only message you received from the
Titanic in the afternoon. Was the message answered ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about how far you were
from her at that time ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you no means of knowing?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After you got through with this regular busines
then what did you do ?
Mr. Cottam. I called the Titanic,
ft -^^..^^^ >>
TITANIC DISASTER. 103
Senator Smith. You caUed the Titanic yourself?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who told you to do it ?
Mr. CcMTAM. I did it of my own free will.
Senator Smith. You did it of your own accord ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say ?
Mr. Cottam. I asked him if he was aware that Cape Cod was send-
ing a batch of messages for him.
Senator Smith. And did they reply ?
Mr. CJottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did they say ?
Mr. Cottam. ^'Come at once."
Senator Smith. Did you gather from that that they had received
your communication ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And this was the reply ?
Mr. Cottam. He said, ''Come at once. It is a distress message;
C. Q. D."
Senator Smith. Only the three words were used ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; all the lot. The whole message was for me.
Senator Smith. When you received that message, what did you do ?
Mr. Cottam. I confirmed it by asking him if 1 was to report it to
the captain ?
Senator Smith. Before you reported to the captain you asked him
if you were to report it to the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get an answer ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did it say ?
Mr. Cottam. It said, ''Yes."
Senator Smith. How did you happen to confirm it ?
Mr. Cottam. Bjr asking him if
Senator Smith (interrupting) . I know, but what prompted you to
confirm it before you delivered it to the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. Because it is always wise to confirm a message of that
description.
Senator Smith. Do you always do it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you instructed to do it 1
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or is that a matter of discretion ?
Mr. Cottam. It is a matter of discretion.
Senator Smith. Had you been misled by messages that were with-
out foundation that prompted you to confirm that message ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What would you have done if you had not received
anv confirmation?
Mr. Cottam. I should have reported the communication.
Senator Smith. You would have reported it to the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir. *
Senator Smith. How much time elapsed between the time when
you received that distress caU and the time you communicated it to
the captain ?
104 TITAKIC WSASTEB.
Mr. CoTTAM. A matter of a couple of minutes.
Senator Smith. Only a couple of minutes ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, su*.
Senator SMrrn. Did you send any messages after that to the
Titanic?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. For whom ?
Mr. CoTTAM. For the Titanic.
Senator Smith. At the instance of the captain ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrH. What messages ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Ourposition.
Senator Smith. What did you say ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I simply sent him our position.
Senator Smith. Can you state it to the reporter i
Mr. CoTTAM. I can not remember what the position was now.
Senator Smfth. You can not remember it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith, but you gave the position of your ship, its longi-
tude; is that the idea?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did that at the suggestion of the captain ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he write out a formal message for you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. He told you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you sent it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir; he wrote the position out on a little slip of
paper.
Senator Smith. And you sent that ?
Mr. Oottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get any reply to that ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long afterwards ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Immediately, sir.
Senator Smith. Si^ed by anyone ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did it say?
Mr. CoTTAM. It simply gave me ''Received."
Senator Smith. Is that all ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Signed by the operator or signed by anybody ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you next hear from the Titanic, or com-
municate with Iier ?
Mr. CJoTTAM. About four minutes afterwards.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate with her, or she with you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. We communicated with each other.
Senator Smith. Who sent the first message?
Mr. Cottam. I did.
Senator Smith. Four minutes after this last message giving your
position ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
a ..»-.«^^ f9
TITAKIO DISASTER. 105
Senator Smith. You sent another ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you say m that ?
Mr. OoTTAM. Confirmed both positions, that of the Titanic and
ours.
Senator Smith. Did you get anything back from that ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; only an acknowledgment.
Senator Smith. What did it say ?
Mr. CoTTAM. **A11 right."
Senator Smith. When did you next comntunicate or receive a
communication t
Mr. Cottam. a few minutes afterwards.
Senator Smith. How many minutes ?
Mr. Cottam. I could not say, sir, because there was another ship
calling the Titanic,
Senator Smith. How do you know 1
Mr. Cottam. Because I heard it.
Senator Smith. What did you hear ?
Mr. Cottam. I heard him calUng the Titanic,
Senator Smith. I understand, but what was said ?
Mr. Cottam. There was nothing but the call, sir.
Senator Smith. A distress call ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what boat it was ?
Mr. Cottam. The Frankfurt.
Senator Smith. A North German Lloyd boat?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know whether it is the North German Lloyd.
It is some German line ; I do not known which one.
Senator Smith. You heard this call ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. The German boat was calling the Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did that disarrange your signals ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But after that call was finished, then what did you
get, if anything ?
Mr. Cottam. I heard the Olympic calling the Titanic.
Senator Smfth. Did you hear the Titanic calling the Olympict
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not at first.
Senator Smith. But you heard the Olympic calling the Titanic?
ilr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the Olympic say ?
Mr. Cottam. He was calling him and offering a service message.
Senator Smith. Offering their service ?
Mr. Cottam. Offering a service message.
Senator Smith. Offermg a service message ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then what followed ?
Mr. Cottam. Nothing, for about a half a minute. Everything was
quiet.
Senator Smith. Nothing for about half a minute t
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. By this time you were quite alert to the situation,
were you ?
106 TITAiJIC DISASTER.
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. And giving your undivided attention to your instru-
ment?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is that right ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. After this minute^ then what ?
Mr. Cottam. I asked the Titanic if he was aware that the Olympic
was calling him, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the reply ?
Mr. Cottam. He said he was not.
Senator Smith. He was not aware of it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Then what followed ?
Mr. Cottam. He told me he could not read him because of the
rush of air and the escape of steam.
Senator Smith. That he could not read him ?
Mr. Cottam. That he could not read him; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Could not read what ?
Mr. Uhler. The Olymmc.
Senator Smith. That ne could not read the message from the
Olympic because of the rush of air ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the escape of steam ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the next thing you heard ?
Mr. Cottam. Then the Titanic called the Olympic,
Senator Smith. Was there anything urgent aoout that or anything
related to the Titanic t
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Cottam. I told the Titanic to call the Baltic,
Senator Smith. What followed ?
Mr. Cottam. The communication was apparently unsatisfactory.
Senator Smith. It was apparently unsatisfactory ?
• Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Well, go right ahead now and tell us just what oc-
curred as long as you were aboard that ship doing work to the time
of the rescue of these people.
Mr. Cottam. I was m communication at regular intervals the whole
of the time until the last communication I gained with the Titanic.
Senator Smith. You heard that ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was said in that message?
Mr. Cottam. He told him to come at once; that he was he&ci
down. And he sent his position.
Senator Smith. And do you know whether he got any reply to thctt
message ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was it ?
Mr. Cottam. ''Received." He told him the message was receive<l
Senator Smith. Is that all ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
i ( — « . ^»*^ y >
TITANIC DISASTER. 107
Senator Smith. When did you hear anything again ? What hap-
pended next ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I heard the Baltic calling Cape Race.
Senator Smith. You were in regular communication ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. With the TUanicf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Until the last communication was heard ?
^Ir. Cottam. Yes; until the last communication was heard.
Senator Smith. What was the last one ?
Mr. Cottam. The last one was, ''Come quick; our engine room is
filling up to the boilers."
Senator Smith. That was the last communication you received ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you make any reply to it ?
Mr. Cottam. I acknowledged the message and reported it to the
captain.
Senator Smith. Did you report each of those messages to the
captain ?
Air. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. By leaving your place I
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And going forward ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Or by the captain coming to your room ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I reported on the bridge to the captain.
Senator Smith. And this was the last communication vou received t
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the reply that was made was to to what effect ?
Mr. Cottam. I simply acknowledged the message and went up to
the captain and reported it.
Senator Smith. Was any other message sent to them ?
ilr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In saying that you acknowledged the message, you
just use the word ** received'* ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; we called the Titanic by the three-letter code
and signed it by our own and gave the signal for ' ^received " — ' *R. D."
Senator Smith. That indicates that the message has been received ?
Does it indicate any more than that; that it has had attention?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So that in response to this last call the only reply
they got was '* Received" ?
Jlr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But the position of your boat was not stated ?
ilr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I thought I understood the captain to say that one
of the last messages told the sinking ship that they were within a cer-
tain distance ana coming hard, or coming fast.
Mr. Cottam. I called him with that message, but I got no acknowl-
edgment.
senator Smith. Just tell us what that message was. You called
called him with that message ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
108 ' TITANIC mSASTBB,
Senator Smith. We would like to know about that; just tell what
it was.
Mr. CoTTAM. The captain told me to tell the Titanic that all our
boats were ready and we were coming as hard as we could come,
with a double watch on in the engine room, and to be prepared, whea
we got there, with lifeboats. I got no acknowledgment of that
message.
Senator Smith. But you sent it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Whether it was received or not, you don't know?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Let us understand. When you received that last
call from the Titanic, that her engine room was filling with water, you
say you acknowledged its receipt and took that message to the cap-
tarn. Did you acknowledge its receipt before you took it to the cap-
tain?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Then, after you had taken this message to the cap-
tain, you came back to your instrument and sent the message that
you have just described ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And to that you received no reply ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you never received any other reply?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or any other word from the ship ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After the Carpathia had picked up these lifeboats
and started for New York, did you receive messages {
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain at your post that night?
Mr. Cottam. All the night, sir.
Senator Smith. How much of the time next day ?
Mr. Cottam. All the day, sir.
Senator Smith. That was Sunday and Monday; how about Mon-
day night ?
Mr. Cottam. I was on all night again, sir.
Senator Smith. And Tuesday ?
Mr. Cottam. All the time again.
Senator Smith. And Tuesday niffht?
Mr. Cottam. I got about a couple or three hours sleep.
Senator Smith. You got about two or three hours' sleep Tuesday
nieht?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not say the hour I fell off.
Senator Smith. You fell oflF to sleep ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Involuntarily ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You do not know what time it was ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or how much you slept ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
it ,— ^^-^^ 99
TITAKIO DIBASTEB. 109
Senator Smith. How were you awakened t
Mr. CoTTAM. I don't know, sir.
Senator Smtth. When were you awakened ?
Idr. CoTTAM. About 20 to half past 4, ship's time, just as die
dawn was ooniing on; about half past 4 in the morning.
Senator Smtth. It was nearing aawn ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Tiiat would be Wednesday morning ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Were you at your post all day Wednesday t
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir;' with the exception of meals.
Senator Smfth. And Wednesday night ? ^
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; the junior man of the Utantic had then
been brought up out of the hospital to give me a hand for a while
with the wireless. ^ '
Senator Smtth. What was your state of mind or physical condi-
tion at that time when you got this relief t
Mr. Cottam. I was feeling very tired, and about worked out.
Senator Smtth. How long did this relief that you got from the
TUanie operator continue ?
Mr. Cottam. He gave me a hand all the way to New York. •
Senator Smith. -Ml the way to New York ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During those days beginning with Monday morn-
ing, was there an attempt made to communicate with your ship often ?
Mr, Cottam. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. That was successful t
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir. •
Senator Smith. Of course you would not know whether any
attempt were made that was not successful ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In other words, you have no means of knowing
what passed through the air except as it registered on youif
instrument t
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any successful attempt made to com-
municate with you on Monday? Did you take any messages on
Mondav ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember that I did on Monday.
Senator Smith. Can ypu remember what you did Tuesday ?
Mr. Cottam. I kept, no record of the whole work; only memo-
rized it.
Senator Smith. You kept no record of it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there no written record of those messages ? *
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When was it made up ?
Mr. Cottam. As the messages were sent.
Senator Smtth. And received ?
Mr* Cottam. And* received.
Senator Smith. So that those are on file with your ship's officer ?•
Mr. Cottam. They are m the Marconi house on the ship, sir. i
Senator Smith. Was anybody successful in getting into communi-
cation with your ship on Monday and Tuesday ?
4047&-Fr 1—12 8
110 WSAXIQ w^hsm^
Mr. C'oTTAM. I was in conununication with some station or other
the whole way from the time of the w»eck ri^ht to New York.
Senator Smith. You were in communicatiou with some ship )
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. AU the way }
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. All the way?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMriH. And often?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do ^ou recaJl having received any message from
the President of the United States ?
Mr. CottAm. No, sir; I do not remember anything about that.
Senator Smith. Do you recall getting into communication with
either the Chester or the Salemf
■ Mr. CoTTAM. With the Chester^ sir.
Senator Smith. The CheBterf
Mr. Ck)TTAM. Yes, air.
Senator Smith. What was the nature of their inquiry ?
Mr. Cottam. They were asking for a list of the paasengMs and
crew.
Senator Smith. Did you comply with their request ?
Mr, Cottam. I asked the captam. The names of the first and sec-
ond class passengers and the crew had been sent off previou^y.
Senator Smith. They had been sent to whom ?
Mr. Cottam. The names of the first and second class passengers
had been sent to the Olympicj and the list of the crew had been sent to
the Minnewaska.
Senator Smith. And therefore you did not duplicate those lists ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any message from the Ghestert
Mr. Cottam. They sent some message, but I can not remember
whether they were repUed to or not. The first message was replied to.
Senator Smith. Did this wireless instrument or equipment work
satisfactorily, so far as you know ?
Mr. Cottam. On the Oarpathiaf
Senator Smith. On the UarwUhia.
Mr. Cottam. Yes. It worked satisfactorily for what it was, sir.
,.Senator Smith. Did it seem to be an impaired equipment ?
Mr. Cottam. An old type.
- Mr. Uhlbb. What does he mean by that — that the field was
liinited or the type of machine ?
Senator Smith. The type of machine.
Mr. Cottam. The type of machine. Both the field of communica-
tion and the type of machine.
Mr. Uhler. Both were unsatisfactory ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The field was limited by the type, was it not t
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Mr. Uhleb. What was the power of the machine on the Oarpaikiaf
Senator Smith. Answer the question. What was the power?
What wave len^h was used ?
Mr. Uhlbb. No ; what was the kilowatt ?
Senator Smith. What power did you use ?
*< ».-..^^*^ 9f
mSASIC MBASTEB. Ill
Mr. CoTTAH. I can not tell you the kilowatt; it yaried according
to the source of supplip- from tne ship's main.
Senator Smfth. 1 tmnk I will just let you stand aside for a while,
but we may want you in the morning; will you be here?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrm. I should like to haye you here as early as 10
o'clock to-morrow morning.
Mr. Griogs. Shall we try to bring down the junior operator of
the Titanic at the same time ?
Senator Smith. I wish you would.
Mr. Griggs. We will haye him here in the morning.
Senator Smith. Thank you.
Do you know what time you reoeiyed the message from the Ohesterf
Mr. CoTTAM. That is hard to say, sir, but it would be about half
past 9 to 10 o'clock in the morning.
Senator Smith. Which morning! Tuesday morning?
Mr. CoTTAM. Tuesday morning.
Senator Smith. About half past 9 ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is all from you to-night. I will now call
Mr, Crawford.
TESTIMONY OF ALFRED CBAWFORD.
The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Crawford. Alfred Crawford.
Senator Smith. And where do you reside ?
Mr. Crawford. In Southampton.
Senator Smith. England ?
Mr. Crawford. England; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Crawford. Forty-one.
Senator Smith. What is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Crawford. Bedroom steward.
Senator Smith. How long haye you been engaged in that employ-
ment ?
Mr. Crawford. I haye been going to sea since 1881, sir.
Senator Smith. How long haye you been employed on the White
Star Line ?
Mr. Crawford. I haye been on the White Star Line six years.
Senator Smith. What boats haye you seryed on ?
Mr. Crawford. On the AdriatiCj the Olympic, and the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Always in the same capacity ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What are your duties ?
Mr. Crawford. Attending to all the passengers' requirements,
cleaning their rooms, and eyerything, sir.
Senator Smith. In any particular part of the ship ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; in one certain part. 1 was on B deck,
right forward.
Senator Smith. That is where ?
Mr. Crawford. In the fore part of the ship; in the bow part.
<< »^».«**^ 9 9
112 TITAKIO DIBA8TEB.
Senator Smith. That is on the second from the boat deck t
Mr. Crawford. The second from the boat deck; yes^ sir.
Senator Smith. Forward ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the passengers in your part of
this ship ?
Mr. Crawford. I know three ladies, Mrs. Rogers, Miss Rogers, and
her niece; also Mr. Stewart, that I had in my section, and there was a
Mr. and Mrs. Bishop. ^
Senator Smith. Mr.' and Mrs. Bishop ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you remember Mr. Bishop's initials ?
Mr. Crawford. No; I do not know what were his initials t
Senator Smith. Were those all ?
Mr. Crawford. They were a newly married couple.
Senator Smith. The Bishops ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. He was a man about your age ?
Mr. Crawford. No; he was a man about 24, sir.
Senator Smith. A young man.
Mr. Crawford. A young man; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were these all the passengers in your section?
Mr. Crawford. All I had in my section. There were some other
passengers up there.
Senator Smith. Do you remember them ?
Mr. Crawford. I do not remember their names, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know Mr. and Mrs. Straus?
Mr. Crawford. I stood at the boat where they refused to get in.
Senator Smith. Did Mrs. Straus get into the boat ?
Mr. Crawford. She attempted to get into the boat first and she
got back again. Her maid got into the boat.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by ''she attempted" to get in ?
Mr. Crawford. She went to get over from the deck to the boat,
but then went back to her husband.
Senator Smith. Did she step on the boat ?
Mr. Crawford. She stepped on to the boat, on to the gunwales,
sir; then she went back.
Senator Smith. What followed ?
Mr. Crawford. She said, ''We have been Uving together for many-
years, and where you go I go."
Senator Smith. To whom did she speak ?
Mr. Crawford. To her husband.
Senator Smith. Was he beside her?
Mr. Crawford. Yes; he was standing away back when she went
from the boat.
Senator Smith. You sav there was a maid there also?
Mr. Crawford. A maid got in the boat and was saved; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the maid precede Mrs. Straus into the boat ?
Mr. Crawford. Mrs. Straus told the maid to get into the boat
and she would follow her; then she altered her mmd and went back
to her husband.
Senator Smith. Which one of the boats was that?
Mr. Crawford. No. 8, sir; the port side.
Senator Smith. You mean the eighth boat to be lowered?
it .«*^.^**^ yf
TITANIC DISABTEB. 118
Mr. Cbawford. No, sir; the starboard boats were lowered before
ours were. We were on the port side; No. 8 boat on the port side.
Senator Smith. Who superintended the loading?
Mr. Cbawford. The chief officer superintended it, and myself.
Senator SsfrrH. And the lowering ?
Mr. Crawford. And Capt. Smith.
Senator Smith. All those lifeboats on the port side?
Mr. Crawford. Capt. Smith and the chief officer; Capt. Smith and
the steward lowered tne forward falls of the boat I was in.
Senator Smith. This was forward %
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far from the bridge ?
Mr. Burlinoham. He said the forward falls, Senator; that is the
forward rope, but it was the after boat on the port side.
Senator Smith. How far from the bridge ?
Mr. Crawford. It was about 20 or 30 yards from the bridge, sir.
Senator Smith. And the captain of the boat personally superin-
tended the loading and the lowering ?
Mr. Crawford. Of that one particular boat; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Of this eiehtn boat ?
Mr. Crawford. Of No. 8 Doat; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he superintend the loading and lowering of
any other boat there forward ?
Mr. Crawford. I think he went to No. 10 boat. I could not see
that being lowered into the water. He gave us instructions to pull
to a light that he saw and then land the ladies and return back to the
ship again. It was the light of a vessel in the distance. We pulled
ana pulled, but we could not reach it.
Senator Smith. Then ^^ou didn't get back to the ship ?
^ Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was the captain when you saw him last ?
Mr. Crawford. He stood up on the deck there, where we were
lowering away the falls. After we got from the boat deck I could not
see him again.
Senator Smith. After you got below the boat deck?
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. He remained on the boat deck ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many seamen or men of the crew were put
into boat No. 8 ?
Mr. Crawford. Four, sir; two were in and Capt. Smith told me
to get in.
^nator Smith. Two were in ?
Mr. Crawford. Two sailors were in the boat at first.
Senator Smith. And Capt. Smith told you to get in ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; myself and a cook got in. We were the
last to get in the boat— there were so many ladies that there wasn't
room for anv more.
Senator Smith. How many passengers were in that boat ?
Mr. Crawford. I should say about 35, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that a regular lifeboat or one of these canvas
collapsible boats ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; it was a regular lifeboat.
{ i . «w-^ 9 >
114 TITANIC mSASTEB.
Senator Smith. When you were lowered to the water, who aBsumed
charge of this lifeboat ?
Mr. Crawford. The man in the afterpart of the lifeboat, a saHor.
Senator Smith. A sailor ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And what was done ?
Mr. Crawford. We all took an oar and pulled away from the ship.
A lady — I don't know her name — took the tiller.
Senator Smith. A lady took the tiller and the men took the oarst
Mr. Crawford. Four men took the oars and pulled away.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the women or men in that
boat?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; there were only ladies. There were no
men, except four of the crew.
Senator Smith. What about Mr. and Mrs. Bishop I
Mr. Crawford. They weren't in that boat.
Senator Smith. What boat were they in?
Mr. Crawford. I couldn't say what boat they got into. I saw
them afterwards on the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Did each of the boats forward on the port aide
have four men ?
Mr. Crawford. I think they did, sir; I couldn't say. I was out
loading all the boats as we got along.
Senator Smith. So far as you observed, was there any struggle
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; none whatever.
Senator Smith (continuing) . To get into the lif eboatS; by men or
women ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; none whatever.
Senator Smith. Was the ship sinking at this time ?
Mr. Crawford. She was maldng water fast at the bows; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And was there any noticeable suction ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. About the boat ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir* I do not think so.
Senator Smith. As she began to sink ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Just tell what you did from that time that you
were lowered to the water.
Mr. Crawford. Kept pulling and trying to make a light, and we
could not seem to get any closer to it. We kept pulling and puUcng
until daybreak. Then we saw the Carpaihia coming up, and we
turned around and came back to her.
Senator Smith. What time did the day break on Monday ?
Mr. Crawford. About 4 o'clock, I should say, it began to get light.
Senator Smith. You were in the boat and pulling ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; until the time we were picked up.
Senator Smith. From 1 o'clock until about daybreak ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you were picked up, did the boat have the
same number of occupants as when she left the Titanicf
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And all were saved ?
Mr. Crawford. And all were saved; yes, sir.
i i ______ ^— ^ f f
TTTANIC DIBA&XER. 115
Senator Smith. Where were you when this collision occurred %
Mr. CftAWFOBD. 1 was right forward in B tAeck.
Senator Smith. Where is that ?
Mr. Crawford. Two decks underneath the boat deck.
Senator Smith. Tell what you experienced.
Mr. Crawford. I was on watch until 12 o'clock, and I was waiting
for my relief to come up. I was to be relieved at 12 o'clock. I heard
the crash, and I went out on the outer deck and saw the iceberg
floating alongside. I went back, and there were a lot of passengers
coming out.
Senator Smith. You went out on the outer deck?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On which side ?
Mr. Crawford. On the starboard side.
' Senator Smith. And saw the iceberg %
Mr. Crawford. I saw the iceberg going by.
Senator Smith. Was there any ice on tne deck ?
Mr. Crawford. I did not go so far forward as that, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there anybody injured that you know any-
thing about ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I went to all the ladies' cabins. They were
all rushing out, and I told them I didn't think there was any immediate
danger, and after the order was passed for the hfe belts, I tied the
life odts on the ladies, and an old gentleman by the name of Stewart,
and tied his shoes on for him.
Senator Smith. You say after the order was passed for the life
belts?
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who gave that order ?
Mr. Crawford. The captain, I believe.
Senator Smith. How long after the collision ?
Mr. Crawford. I should say about 30 minutes.
Senator Smith. Did you succeed in getting the life belts on ?
Mr. Crawford. On all the ladies, and all the passengers; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On all passengers you say ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; all that were on that deck.
Senator Smith. Did you personally look after the passengers on
that deck in that regara ?
Mr. Crawford, i es, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anybody assist you ?
Mr. Crawford. There was another man on the other side. There
was one man on each side.
Senator Smith. You say that all the passengers were fitted with
life belts?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; each person. There w«*e three or four
life belts in each stateroom.
Senator 3mith. Were there any children on that deck?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; there was none on the deck where I was.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the other passengers on that
deck?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I can not sav that I did.
Senator Smtth. Did you hefu* of any American passengers there ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On that dedc ?
116 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Crawford. No, air.
Senator Smith. I mean by that, any special names that were
suggested ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I have not heard of any.
Senator Smith. Those people you have enumerated are the only
ones you know by name ?
Mr. Crawford. That is all; yes, sir.
' Senator Smith. Did you hear any explosion or any evidence of an
explosion ?
Mr. Crawford. I heard an explosion when we were lying to in the
water, in the boat, sir.
Senator Smith. In what boat ?
Mr. Crawford. In the lifeboat.
Senator Smith. What character of explosion i
Mr. Crawford. Sort of a sharp, like as if there were things being
blown up.
Senator Smith. Was there anj outward indication ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; we did not see any, because we were pull-
ing very hard away.
Senator Smith. Did you see the ship go down ?
Mr. Crawford. We saw her at a distance ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What shape was she in when you saw her last ?
Mr. Crawford, It seemed as if her bow was going down first.
Senator Smith. At how much of an angle ?
Mr. Crawford. We saw all the lights going out on the forward
part of her.
Senator Smith. And still burning on the after part ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much of the aft part was out of the water ?
Mr. Crawford. There was a good bit of the stern part out of
water.
Senator Smith. How many decks ?
Mr. Crawford. I could not say how many decks there, sir, but it
seemed all clear right from amidships to aft.
Senator Smith. Did you see many people ?
Mr. Crawford. I saw a great numter on deck.
Senator Smith. On board of her at that time.
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What were they doing ?
Mr. Crawford. When we left they were trying to lower the other
boats; the farther-aft boats.
Senator Smith. Were you assisted ui rowing the boat that you
were in by a woman puUiQg an oar ?
Mr. Crawford, i es, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was she ?
Mr. Crawford. I don't know her name, sir. There were several
ladies there who took turns at pulling.
Senator Smith. Were they employees ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. They were lady passengers ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; lady passengers.
Senator Smith. But you don't know who they were ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You have never seen them since ?
€t .■■■.,.. ..^^^ ff
TEKANIO MBASTBB. 117
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I have never seen them since.
Senator Smith. Did you know Mr. Ismay — the managing director?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him there ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; I saw him lowering a boat on the star-
board side too, and Mr. Murdock.
Senator Sboth. He and Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do ^ou remember what boat it was ?
Mr. Crawford. I think it was No. 5.
Senator Smith. Forward.
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; it was just under the bridge.
Senator Smith. In their order of being lowered into the water,
what number was it ?
Mr. Crawford. The boat, sir ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Crawford. No. 5^ starboard side.
Senator Smith. Was it the fifth boat that was lowered into the
water?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; probably the third.
Senator Smith. Did you see him lowering any other boat? .
Mr. Crawford. No; I went around the port side.
Senator Smith. Did you see him get into a boat ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or get out of one ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I saw him assisting the ladies into this
one particular boat; he and Mr. Murdock had lowered the boat into
the waterv
Senator Smith. You saw him assist the ladies in ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Does it take two men to lower these boats ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he was performing the service of one man ?
Mr. Crawford. Mr. Murdock was running it through the blocks.
Senator Smith. And Mr. Murdock's position was what ?
Mr. Crawford. First officer.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Either before you got into this lifeboat or after
you got into it, did you see many persons in the water ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Crawford. I did not see any in the water after we lowered the
boats.
wSenator Smith. You did not ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any in the water before you lowered the
boat?
Mr. CRAWFORD. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the condition of these lifeboats ?
Mr. CRAWFORD. The one I was in was in very good condition.
Senator Smtth^ Was it new ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; and perfectly dry.
Senator Smith. Was there any difficulty in lowering the lifeboats ?
118 nxAKfo jHaMatOR.
Mr. Crawford. None whatever; sir. They went down very
easily.
Senator Smith. After the captain told you to get into this boat,
you did not see him again ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any officers in the boat that you
were in ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any of the officers get into any boats 1
Mr. Crawford. No ; I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any attempt made to get into any of
the boats ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Lightoller ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do jou know him ?
Mr. Crawford. I did not know him; no, sir.
Senator Smith. You did know Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; I have been with him on several ships.
Senator Smith. What was your emergency boat station ?
Mr. Crawford. No. 8. Each man went to his station.
Senator Smith. Was that your emergency station ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was your fire station ?
Mr. Crawford. To get the hose out on each section for the bed-
rooms.
Senator Smith. Was there anv drill ?
Mr. Crawford. Oh, yes; we have a drill every voyage, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any on this voyage I
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. Crawford. That was in Belfast.
Senator Smith. Before leaving ?
Mr. Crawford. Before leaving.
Senator Smith. Was that at the time of the trial test ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who conducted it ?
Mr. Crawford. The chief officer, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you have his name!
Mr. Crawford. Mr. Weyl, sir.
Senator Smith. I have not finished with you, but I would be glad
to have you come here in the morning. We shall not be able to get
through with these men.
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. Then we will retain them for you. Do you
want these 4 officers and these 12 men?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. BuRLiNOHAM. The rest can go home ?
Senator Smith. No; I can not say that.
Mr. Burlingham. We have about 100 of them — 95 stewards and
70 firemen — all prepared to go home by the Lapland ; at your serv-
ice, of course, at any time; but that is their home.
Senator Smith. I understand that; but I am not prepared to meet
that request.
t€ , 9f
TITANIC DI6ASTEB. 119
Mr. BuRLiNOHAH. We can not be responsible for their being kept
here for you if the ship goes. They are absolutely free from us.
They will be subject to boarding houses, or anything else. If the
committee wants to herd them up, that is one tmng. It is perfectly
impossible for a steamship company to take care of 200 people with-
out any steamer to put them on.
Senator SMrrH. I am not going to subposna all of those men. As
I understand it, we are to be guaranteed the presence of the of&cers
and these 15 men?
Mr. BuBLiNOHAM. Ycs; those that you have selected.
Senator Smith. I am not going to release the others.
Mr. BuBLiNOHAM. But they are not under subpoena.
Senator Smith. Thev are not.
Mr. BxjBLiNQHAM. Thank you. We understand, sir.
Senator Smith. I do not want to release anybody, and I particu-
larly want these 15.
iir. BnBLiNOHAM. They will be here.
Senator Smith. And the other officers of the company?
Mr. BuRLiNOHAM. They will be at your disposal to-morrow. At
what time ?
Senator Smfth. At 10 o'clock.
Mr. BuRLiNOHAM. Very well, sir.
Senator Smith. The ^rgeant at Arms says there are 12 instead
of 15.
Mr. Fbanklin. Has the Sergeant at Arms the names of the 12
men and the 4 officers ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. BuBLiNOHAM. We will have them here. They will be here at
10 o'clock to-morrow morning.
Whereupon, at 10.30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned to
meet at 10 o'clock a. m., Saturday, April 20, 1912, at the Waldorf-
Astoria, New York City.
"m
5 HEARING
BKFORB A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART II
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHIKQTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING 0F7ICS
10U
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
United States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman.
QEOROE C. PERKINS, CaUfomia. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oragoo. FRANCIS O. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTBT, Clerk.
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Pace.
Bride, Harold S 133
Cottam, Harold T. (recalled) 121,154
Pitnum, Herbert Joh 166
m
-TITANIC^' DI8ASTEK-
SATT7BDAY, APBIL 20, 1912.
suboommriteb of the committee ok commeboe,
United States Senate,
New YarJc, N. Y.
The subcommittee met at 10.50 o'clock a. m. at the Waldorf-Astoria
Hotel, New York City.
Present: Senator William Alden Smith (chairman), and Senator
Newlands.
Present also: Mr. George Uhler, Supervising Inspector General,
Steamboat-Inspection Service, Department of Commerce and Labor;
Mr. J. Bruce Ismay, general manager of the International Mercantile
Marine Co.; Charles C. Burlingham, Esq., and J. Parker Kirlin, Esq.,
representing the White Star Line; Emerson E. ParviiL Esq., secre-
tary International Mercantile Marine Co. ; Guglielmo Marconi, presi-
dent of the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Co., and others.
Senator Smith. Gentlemen, I am very sorry to have delayed begin-
ning the hearing beyond the hour set this morning, but a conference
between my coUeagues and myself made it necessary. I am going
to proceed this morning by aslong Mr. Cottam, the Marconi operator
on the Carpaihia, to take the witness chair again.
TESTIMONT OF HABOLD T. COTTAK— Becalled.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, you detailed yesterday, when you
were last interrogated by the committee, the work that you did on
the Oarpaihia up to' the time of the last message received from the
Tikinie.
Mr. CoTFAM. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. And to that message you made reply, by direction
of the captain f
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you relate the captain's last message to the
TUanief
Mr. Cottam. The captain sent a message to the effect that they
were to have their lifeboats ready. We had got ours readj and were
steaming as fast as we could in the direction of the position of the
vessel given.
Senator Smith. Was anything further said f
Mr. CoTFAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you received no further answer to that
message?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You also detailed the work that was done after
reaching the scene of the collision and sinking of the Titanief
Mr. (SxTTAM. Yes.
121
122 . «' TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any communication from either
a Marconi coast station or any other station from any officer of the
YSTiite Star line ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Do you mean as soon as we reached the spot?
Senator Smith. 1 mean from the time you reached the scene of
this catastrophe until you reached port in New York.
Mr. CoTTAM. I was m communication with some boat or other the
whole of the time, sir.
Senator Smith. You were in communication with some boat or
other the whole of the time i
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any message come signed officially by any
officer of the White Star Line ?
Mr. Cottam. I had one or two from the Baltic, sir.
Senator Smith. One or two from the BaUicf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To what effect ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Were they signed or merely transmitted ?
Mr. Cottam. They were official messages, sir; but I can not remem-
ber whether they were signed or not.
Senator Smith. I wish you would speak a little louder; I can not
quite hear you myself.
Mr. Cottam. Tney were official messages, but whether or hot they
were signed by the captain of the Baltic, I could not say.
Senator Smith. Do you recall the contents ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember. I have no record of any of them
at all.
Senator Smith. Were they messages from the Baltic, or transmitted
through the Baltic from any coast station ?
Mr. Cottam. There was communication with the Baltic and the
Carpaihia the whole of the time.
Senator Smith. And you can not recall what those messages were ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; there were too many of them, sir.
Senator Smith. I will ask you specifically whether you received
any message indicating a desire or suggestion that the true state of
thmgs be kept as confidential ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. I informed the Baltic of the whole catas-
trophe about half past 1 0 in the morning, the morning after the
wreck.
Senator Smith. At half past 10 o'clock?
Mr. Cottam, About hall past 10.
Senator Smith. On Monday morning following the loss of the
Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You communicated the facts to the Baltic?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how far out the Baltic w^as at that
time; how far from you ?
Mr. Cottam. I could not say, sir; but she was steaming in the direc-
tion of the wreck.
Senator Smith. She was steaming in the direction of the wreck 1
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
(t ...... ^^^ >>
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 123
Senator Smith. But you had no communication with a coast
station f
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And can you recall wliat was said in the message
at 10.30 Monday morning to the Baliicf
Mr. CoTTAM. I told her the distress signal received earlier on, or
the previous night, and told her that we had been to the wreck and
picked up as many passengers as we could find in the small boats,
and were returning to New York.
Senator . Smith. Did you say anything in this message about
Halifax ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or at any other time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir. les; I believe I did mention something
about Halifax, sir, simply because the captain was bound for Halifax
first, and then he changed his mind and was bound for New York.
I may have mentioned Halifax. I can not quite remember whether
I mentioned Halifax at first.
Senator Smith. You say the captain was bound for Halifax ?
Mr. C!ottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you know ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I went ana asked the captain, sir. Three or four
ships around about wanted to know where we were bound for, and
the captain said he was not decided, he thought he was bound for
Halifax; but later on in the morning he changed his mind.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I can not remember the time.
Senator Smith. About what time ? Was it forenoon ?
Mr. CoTTAM. It may have been about noon.
Senator SMrni. Was it necessary to change his course, in chang-
ing his mind ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Sliriitly, sir.
•Senator Smith. Did vou at any time on Monday send a message to
the Baltic, or to any otner office, to the effect that all passengers had
been saved, and that the Titaniic was being towed to Halifax?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or anything resemWing that ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir. '
Senator Smith. Then you did not in any way attempt to withhold
the exact facts concerning the sinking of tne Titanic f
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any message reach you on the Carvathia on
Monday, Monday night, or Tuesday, from any source, inaicating a
rumor of that kind ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. The only reference to Halifax was the reference
made in your first message to the Baliicf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir. I may have sent the same to the other
ships; I can not remember. There were three or four ships in the
vicinity, the Virginian, the Califomian, and the Baltic, I may have
sent the same message to the three; I can not be certain.
Senator Smith. But you did not send out from the Carpathia any
report that the passengers and crew of the Titanic were saved, and
that the ship, badly damaged, was being towed to Halifax ?
124 TETANIC DISASTBB.
«
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or anything of that nature ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smtth. And, if I understand you correctly, you were not
requested to do so ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. By anyone ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Either operator, or officer, or any other peison f
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you pick up on the instrument any such state-
ment from any other source ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know that a statement of that kind was
being printed ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You sent out no communication which was indefi-
nite enough to be so construed ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You aie very positive about that ?
Mr. Con AM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It would have been false woidd it not ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And of your own knowledge, you knew that it
would be false?
Mr. CoTiAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If the White Star Line sent the following telegram,
dated New York, April 1 5 —
J. A. HUOHES,
Huntingtofif W. Va.:
Titanic proceeding to Halifax. Pafisengers will probably land there Wednesday.
All safe.
WnrrE Stab Linb,
they did not obtain this information from you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Nor, to your knowledge, from any other operator
on the Carpathiaf
Mr. CoTTAM. No. sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty Monday ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much of Monday ?
Mr. CoTTAM. All the day, sir.
Senator Smith. All day ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What do vou mean by *'day"? Give the hours.
Mr. Cottam. The whole of the time, sir.
Senator Smith. Give the hour when you went on duty and when
you left.
Mr. Cottam. I do not lemember when I went on, and I did not
come off for a couple of days after I got on.
Senator Smith. Were you off duty from early evening Sunday
until Monday evening ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I was never off.
Senator Smith. Never off duty?
a ..i..^.**^ ff
TITANIC DIBA8TBB. 125
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So you were at your instrument ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; the whole oi the time.
Senator Smith. All of the time 1
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On Sunday night, and Monday all day, and, as I
understood you yesterday, Monday night all night ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And Tuesday all day ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And Tuesday night all night ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Tuesday night or Wednestmy night — I can not re-
member whether it was Tuesday night or Wednesday night — I got
about two or three hours' sleep.
Senator Smith. You fell off asleep ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. And do not know when you went to sleep %
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You awoke at dawn ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On Wednesday morning ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I suppose you were exhausted ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And involuntarily lapsed into slumber ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Sitting at your instmment 1
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When did Mr. Bride, the surviving wireless oper-
ator of the Titanic, relieve you ?
Mr. Cottam. I believe it was Wednesday afternoon when he was
brought up.
Senator Smith. Wednesday afternoon ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You slept in the early morning until dawn ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Of Wednesday %
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And got no reUef until the afternoon of Wednesday?
Mr. Cottam. I think it was the afternoon of Wednesday, sir. I
don't remember the days at all. Being up all the time, I don't re-
member what the dayB were. I know I only had about 10 hours'
sleep from the time we left the scene of the wreck until we arrived at
New York.
Senator Smith. You are positive, however, that you were in charge
of the instrument Sunday, Sunday night — all night ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Monday and Monday night, all night ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That was the day following this calamity ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator SMrm. Tuesday, and Tuesday night ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir. I believe it was Tuesday night when I fell
ofF to sleep, and I had about three hours' sleep.
126 TITANIC DIBABTEB.
Senator Smith. That is what you have stated, Tuesday night.
And you awakened at dawn on Wednesday morning ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you awakened, did you find yourself at your
instrument ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Fully dressed ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you got no relief until Mr. Bride came to your
relief during the afternoon of Wednesday, that same day ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. About what time did Mr. Bride come to vour
reUef ?
Mr. Cottam. It was late in the afternoon; I should say about 5
o'clock in the afternoon, sir.
Senator Smith. And how long were you absent from your
instrument ?
Mr. Cottam. After Mr. Bride came into the cabin i
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cottam. I was not absent at all, sir.
Senator SMrrn. You were not absent at all ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Were you lying down in your room adjoining your
apparatus ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You were lying down in the room ?
Mr. Cottam. Not when Mr. Bride came. I kept the watch all the
night — the night that Bride was there. I was up the whole night.
Senator Smith. You were up all of W^ednesday night assisting Mr.
Bride ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What I would like to know is how much rest vou
got on. Wednesday, or Wednesday afternoon ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember, sir, what rest I had; I know I
only had about eight or ten hours, I think, from the time we arrived
at the wreck until the time we.arrived in New York.
Senator Smith. During that time was Mr. Bride at the instrument ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; we were both there the whole time.
Senator Smith. But during the time you were getting the rest, did
you leave him at the instrument ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you did not leave the instrument yourself until
Wednesday afternoon ?
Mr. Cottam. I did not leave the instrument on Wednesday
afternoon.
Senator Smith. Well, you got rest on Wednesday, you say ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember whether I did or not.
Senator Smith. While Mr. Bride was at the instrument did you feel
your responsibility for the service ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not pass this responsibility over to him ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he do for you ?
t( -..-..^•**^ ff
TITANIC " DISASTEB. 12 T
Mr.CoTTAM. He carried on with the work, sir, while I was not
there.
Senator Smith. Were you at your instrument when the message
from the Chester was received ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You took that message?
Ur. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you reply to it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In the manner you stated yesterday i
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not feel any authority — ^you did not
have any authority — to designate Mr. Bnde for service f
iir. CoTFAM. No, sir; his services were entirely voluntary, sir.
Senator Smith. His services were voluntary ?
ilr. CorrAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was his physical condition ?
Mr. Cottam. He could not walk; he could not stand, sir.
vSenator Smith. He could not walk and he could not stand ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith.. From injuries ?
ilr. Cottam. From injuries; yes, sir; injuries received at the time
f'f the wreck.
Senator Smith. At the time of the wreck ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was his mental condition? Did he seem.
'•> be lucid ?
ilr. Cottam. No, sir. No, sir; he seemed to be all right.
Senator Smith. How ?
Mr. Cottam. He seemed to be all right.
Senator Smith. I say, he seemed to be all right, did he, mentally?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did he receive messages, to your knowledge ?
ilr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And answer them ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any that he sent or received ?
Mr. Cottam. It was Mr. Bride who sent the third-class names to
^\ Chester, sir.
Senator Smith. Any other message ?
Mr. Cottam. I have no record oi it here, sir; the records are all
"» the CarwUhia,
Senator Smith. No other message that you can recollect ^
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. He did send some, sir, but I can not remem-
f^r when or what thev were.
^nator Smith. Dicf you know at the time ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
. Senator Smith. And if he had sent any message such as I have
indicated, that the Titanic was being towed to Halifax and the
pa>»sen2er8 were safe, you would have known it, would you not ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you would not have permitted it?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
128 TITAKIC " mSASTBB.
Senator Smith. He did not in fact send it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Send such message ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you now tell just how long Mr. Bride was at
the instrument ?
Mr. CoTTAM. He was on and oflF the instrument, and took a watch
occasionally, sir.
Senator Smith. Took a watch occasionally ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you stand watch alone all of the time, with the
exception of this short time that you were overtaken by slumber and
the time you were relieved by Mr. Bride, from Sunday evening until
your arrival in New York ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And had the responsibility for the work of the
wireless on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Has anybody talked to you since you have been in
New York that was aboard the boat with reference to any messages
that were sent or received ?
Mr. Cottam. I heard about the message being put about, about
the Titanic being bound for Halifax, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell us what you were asked ?
Mr. Cottam. I was asked by somebody abroad, I can not remember
who it was, whether I sent the message or not.
Senator Smith. Were you asked by Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you asked by some officer of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you asked by any of the crew ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or by any of the passengers ?
Mr. Cottam. I believe it was after we arrived in New York I heard
about it, sir.
Senatoi Smfth. After you arrived at the Cunard docks you were
asked that question ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know who interrogated you ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I do not. I can not remember at all, sir. I
was too busy at the time.
Senator Smith. Would you know the man if you saw him ?
Mr. Cottam. I don't suppose I would, sir; I did not take any notice
of him at the time.
Senator Smith. Have you seen him since ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not Know, sir.
Senator Smith. How soon after you reached the Cunard dock were
you asked that question ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not say, sir; I do not recollect anything con-
cerning the question at all.
Senator Smith. Was it immediately after you reached the dock t
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember anything about it; only I remem-
ber being asked after we arrived in New York, sir.
ft .^-....^^ ff
TITAHIO DI8ASTEB. 129
Senator Smith. What were you asked ? Just state what was said to
you and your reply.
Mr. CoTTAM. 1 was asked if I had sent the message to shore to the
effect that the Titanic was being towed into Halif ax, and of course I
said I had not.
Senator SifrrH. That you had not ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smfth. Did you say anything more ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator SMrni. Did the person who addressed you say anything
more?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir. I believe it was a reporter. I can not remem-
ber, sir. I believe it was a reporter.
Senator SMrrH. You do not know who it was ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; I can not remember at all.
Senator SMrm. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Bride
about that matter ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; I did not. I never spoke to him about it.
Senator SMrrH. Did he have any conversation with you about itf
Mr. CoTTAM. No. sir.
Senator SMrrn. 1 understood you to say yesterday that the wireless
apparatus on the Carj^hia was rather out of date f
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. And not in very good condition f
Mr. CoTTAM. The set itself is in good condition for what it is, sir;
but it is an old-fashioned type.
Senator SMtrn. An old-fashioned type ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator SMrra. Have you any means of knowing what distance you
could accurately conununicate with that apparatus ?
Mr. CoTTAM. About 250 miles, I should say, sir.
Senator SMrrn. When you say that this was an old type, you mean
that it was limited in its power ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the maximum wave length that could be
employed by that insjbrument ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know the wave length, but I was using the
standard wave len£l;h of all the ships in the marine service.
Senator Smtth. i ou say the standard wave length. What was
that, 600 meters ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir. '
Senator Smfth. And you could use 600 meters, could you ?
Mr. Ck)TTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. And you understand that to be the standard wave
length that English ships, or ships under the flag of countries, parties
to the international treaty, have prescribed?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. You know that, do you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. How do you know it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I know that there is a rule established by the inter-
national convention to the effect that merchant ships are not per-
mitted to use wave lengths other than 600 and 300 meters.
180 TITAKIC DI8ASTEB.
Senator Smith. Merchant ships have the 600 maximum and the 300
minimum ?
Mr. Ck)TTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that right, Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; that is right.
Senator Smith. And you were able to meet these regulations with
these instruments, fairly satisfactorily ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir; most of the time I was not using an attuned
set at all. It was plain aerial and emitting unattuned oscillations.
• Senator Smith. Just explain that.
Mr. CoTTAM. There is no wave length at all to what we call plain
aerial, sir. Any sliips within the radms of 250 miles or under would
get it; it would not matter, hardly, what adjustment they were stand-
mg by on.
Senator Smith. Is that rehable ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is simply general transmission to offices
withiti a limited radius ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I believe you said you were 21 years of age ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that you had been an operator for four or
five years ?
Mr. Cottam. About tliree years.
Senator Smith. About three years ?
Mr. Cottam. About tliree years.
Senator Smith. And that your wages were £4 10s. ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes. sir; per month.
Senator Smith. And board?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that your room was provided for you in your
oJBBce ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I am not quite satisfied to leave your statement
yesterday to the effect that no regular office hours are prescribed by
your regulations.
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; the operator uses his own discretion, but he
is responsible if anything shoiud go wrong at all.
Senator Smith. Well, what do you do with your time when vou are
away from the instrument? How do you pass your time; where do
you pass it ? You can not find much society at the place where your
office is located on the boat.
Mr. Cottam. No. sir.
Senator Smith. Where do you go; what do you do — mingle with the
,crew ?
Mr. Cottam. Mingle with the crew or go on deck.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Cottam. On deck or in their rooms.
Senator Smith. On deck or in their rooms ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Aiid the number of times you shall go to your ofiSce
and your instrument is entirely discretionary with you ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; the Marconi Co, issues charts showing us
when the ships come along, sir.
( ( . «^,_ f 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 131
Senator Smith. Then when you caught this message from the Ti-
tanic, this distress message, you caught it not because you were there
by any regulation of your company at that particular time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But rather accidentally ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I believe you said you had the telephone on your
ear when you started to disrobe and get ready to retire for the night %
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You kept this telephone on your ear, that you might
not miss anything just before getting into bed ?
Mr. Cottam. I had just pre\'iou8ly called the Parisian and I was
waiting for a reply; to see if there was one coming.
Senator Smith. If that reply from the Parisian had been received,
that would have ended your work for the ni^ht, would it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir. I should have rephed again; I should have
finished for the night
Senator Smith. That was a commercial communication ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; it would have been if I had ever caught the
Parisian, but I did not catch him ; apparently he had jgone to bed.
Senator Smith. Apparently the operator on the Parisian had gone
to bed ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You assumed that he had gone to bed ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the hour ?
Mr. Cottam. The hour was about 11 o'clock, sir. New York time.
Senator Smith. You kept this telephone on your ear that you
might get a reply from the Parisian, if possible, oefore you retired ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith.. Now, while you had this telephone apparatus on
your head, and were preparing for bed, you caught this communica-
tion from the Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. Not just then, sir; it was about five minutes
afterwards.
Senator Smith. About five minutes ?
Mr. Cottam. Afterwards.
Senator Smith. After you had attempted to get a reply from the
Parisian?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If you had not had this telephone arrangement on
your head, and had been preparing for bed, was there anything on
that instrument that would have alarmed you or signalled you to the
board?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; nothing whatever.
Senator Smith. Nothing whatever i
Mr. Cottam. No, sir..
Senator Smith. So that the communication from the Titanic
reached you by the merest accident ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Providentially ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the first message — ^just repeat it to the
reporter.
182 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. CoTTAM. The first message was, saying, ^'Come at once. It is a
C. Q. D., old man." That is the distress call. Then he sent his
position.
Senator Smith. What was the ''old man" ? What did that mean ?
Mr. CoTTAM. It is simply a comphmentary remark that is passed
in wireless-telegraph service.
Senator Sb^ith. That was a pretty serious time for complimentary
remarks, was it not ? Did you transmit it to the captain in the form
in which it came ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; there was no necessity to put that on, sir.
Senator Smith. You struck off the 'old man' ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; but I reported it verbally.
Senator Smith. Was that 'old man' intended for you?
Mr. Cottam. For me, sir.
Senator Smith. You appropriated those two words, and took the
balance of it to the captain 1
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From that minute you were in communication with
the Titanic until the last message came about between 1 and 2 o'clock
in the morning ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; it was 11. 55, New York time, when I received
the last message from the Titanic.
Senator Smith. 11 .55 ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. That was the message which said that the boiler
room was filling with water ?
Mr, Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. "Come," or anything?
Mr. Cottam. He said, "Come as quickljr as possible." He said,
"She is taking water, and it is up to the boilers.
Senator Smith. You took that message to the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the captain repUed ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In order to have this I am going to run the risk of
repetition. We should hke to have you give the captain's reply.
Mr. Cottam. The captain told me to go and tell the Titanic he was
making toward the position ^ven as quickly as possible; that he had
a double watch on in the engine room and she was making a good 15
and perhaps 16 knots. He told me to tell her to get the boats ready,
as we had got ours all ready.
Senator SMrrn. Lifeboats ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you sound any other message after that?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; I repeated the message many times, sir.
Senator Smith. You repeated that message many times ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. But you got no answer ?
Mr. Cottam. I got no answer; no, sir.
Senator Smith. And never did receive an answer to that last
message ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get an answer to that last message from
any other ship ?
it .»— .^*^ 9 9
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 138
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or other office ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all. You may step aside. I will
ask Mr. Bride to take the stand.
TSSTUOVT OF HAXOLD S. BSIDE.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Bride. Harold S. Bnde.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside?
^Ir. Bride. London.
Senator Smith. London, England ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your age ?
Mr. Bride. Twenty-two.
Senator Smith. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Bride. Wireless-telegraph operator, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in that business ?
Mr. Bride. Since the beginning of last July, sir.
Senator Smith. What service have you seen since then ?
Mr. Bride. I have been across to America, here, three times and
down to Brazil three times.
Senator Smith. On what boats ?
^Ir. Bride. I went to Philadelphia on the Haverford, twice to New
York on the LusUania, once to Brazil on the LanjfranCy and twice to
Brazil on the ATisdm.
Senator Smith. In that service were you chief operator?
Mr. Bride. On the Lusitania I was the second man. On the other
boats I was in charge; the only operator.
Senator Smith. Had you had any previous experi^ice as an
operator?
Mr. Bride. No; none at all.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been employed by the post-office
department of England f
Air. Bride. No. I had been to a training college to learn wireless.
Senator Smith. What college ?
Mr. Bride. The British School of Telegraphv, Clapham Road.
Senator Smith. Did you receive a diploma from tnere ?
Mr. Bride. I have a Government certificate.
Senator Smith. How long were you there ?
Mr. Bride. Eight months.
Senator Smith. In whose employ were you on the 10th day of
April ?
Mr. Bride. The 10th day of April of this year?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Bride. The Marconi Co.'s, sir.
Senator Smith. The Marconi Co.'s ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In what capacity ?
Mr. Bride. Second operator on the Titanic.
Senator Smith. What wage did you receive ?
Mr. Bride. £4 a month.
40475— PT 2—12 2
134 TlTANrC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And board ?
Mr. Bride. And board; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You were second operator?
Mr. Bride, Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was your chief ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips.
Senator Smith, An older man than you ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. A more experienced man?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smiph. How old would you think Mr. Phillips was ?
Mr. Bride. He was around about 24.
Senator Smith. And he had had a larger experience ?
Mr. Bride. Larger experience.
Senat-or Smith. Do you know what wage he received ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What were your duties as assistant operator?
Mr. Bride. To take a watch with Mr. Phillips; to relieve Mr.
Phillips.
Senator SMrrn. How ?
Mr. Bride. To keep a watch of six hours, sir.
. Senator Smith. To keep a watch of six hours. And during that
time was there some one constantly at the instrument ?
Mr. Bride. Constantly at the instrument; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Upon what vessel were you employed ?
Mr. Bride. The Titanic.
Senator Smith. The Titanic f
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator vSmith. Were you acquainted with any of the officers or the
crew of the Titanic when you entered service on that boat ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you sailed with any of them before ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you acquainted with Mr. Phillips ?
Mr. Bride. Not until I saw him in Belfast.
Senator Smith. Was he in Belfast?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Once or of toner ?
Mr. Bride. I went up to Belfast to join the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Did you join her in Belfast ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on aboard the Titanic when she made
the trial tests t
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take any interest in the trial tests ?
Mr. Bride. Wo were kept rather busy, sir.
Senator Smith. At the instrument ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you call it the key ? You do not call it the key.
What do you call the instrument ?
Mr. Bride. The apparatus.
Senator Smith. And you were engajred at this instrument or appa-
ratus during those trial tests ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
t < ^» ^^^ 9 y
TITAN'IC DIBAS'tER. 136
wSt»nator Smith. Were you sending communications at that time ?
Mr. Bride. We were testingthe apparatus, sir. It had just left
the hands of the engineers. We were holding tests with Liverpool
and Malin Head wireless stations.
Senator Smith. Can you sav of your own knowledge bow long a
time was devoted to these trial tests ?
Mr. Brid£. The whole of Monday, as far as I know, sir. Monday
we left Belfast.
Senator Smith. You do not know of your own knowledge when the
trial tests ceased, I suppose ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you leave the ship at all after boarding at
Belfast «
Mr. Bride. I left the ship at Southampton, sir.
Senator Smfth. Temporarily ?
Mr. Bride. Temporarily; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And returned to the ship?
Mr. Bride. I returned to the ship day before sailing, sir.
Senator Smith. The day before sailing ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Which would have been the 9th of April ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Bride. Well, we got on board rather late. It was half past
11 in the evening.
Senator Smith. At what time was she to sail ?
Mr. Bride. Midday the next day, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, I wish you would describe, as near as you
can, the wireless apparatus with which the Titanic was equipped.
Mr. Bride. It was a 5-kilowatt, the disk discharger fitted with
magnetic detector and valve and receiver and emergency gears.
Senator Smith. Would you call it a thoroughly up-to-date
apparatus ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. It was the only set afloat with the Marconi
Co., with the disk discharger.
Senator Smith. And your tests of this apparatus worked out
satisfactorily I
Mr. Bride. Very satisfactorily, sir.
Senator Smith. How far could you communicate, with that
apparatus ?
Mr. Bride. During the daytime we reckoned to be able to do 400
niiles.
Senator Smith. That is a pretty broad statement.
Mr. Bride. When you say "no limit," sir, we are talking about
freak messages which you can get. We were lyinff off Linton when
we came around Belfast, when we exchanged the last message with
Teneriffe and Port Said.
Senator Smith. Almost any apparatus can get a freak message if it
comes within the radius of tfiat instrument?
Mr. Bride. We had a special sending apparatus which doubled our
range.
Senator Smtth. What wave length could you employ with that
apparatus
186 HIANIO DI8A8TSB.
Mr. Bride. Six hundred and 300 meters.
Senator Smith. That is the international regulation ?
Mr. Bride. Regulation; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the regulation prescribed by the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have occasion to use this wireless fre-
quently after leaving Southampton ?
Mr. Bride. Very frequently; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. For what purpose ?
Mr. Bride. Commercial traffic, sir.
Senator Smith. With English coast stations ?
Mr. Bride. With English coast stations and with other ships.
Senator Smith. And sliips at sea ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would let us know, if you can, how busy
you were kept at that work ?
Mr. Bride. From leaving Southampton to the time we had finished
with Cape Race, we had got through about 250 telegrams. That was
the evening we struck. When we had finished with Cape Race, we
had transmitted 250 telegrams, just about, since leaving Southampton
Senator Smith. Up to the time you struck; up to the time of the
occurrence of this impact i
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the weather favorable for that kind of work ?
Mr. Bride. Very favorable, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any officers of the YThite Star Line
aboard the Titanic?
Mr. Bride. The Titanic was commanded by White Star officers.
Senator Smith. I understand, but any general officers t
Mr. Bride. Any what, sir ?
Senator Smith. Any general officers of the White Star line ?
Mr. Bride. We had heard Mr. Ismay was on board, but beyond
that I do not know anything.
Senator Smith. Where did you hear that ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Philhps told me, sir.
Senator Smith. Your chief told you ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you who Mr. Ismay was ?
Mr. Bride. I knew from the name who he was.
Senator Smith. You knew who he was ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen him ?
Ikfr. Bride. Not before, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him during that voyage ?
Afr. Bride. No, I do not think I did, sir.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. Bride. No, I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Did he send or receive messages through you dur-
ing the voyage ?
Mr. Bride. I believe there were some transmitted for him, sir.
Senator Smith. Official messages ?
Mr. Bride. They would rank with us as official messages.
Senator Smith. jDid they have to do with the direction or the speed
of the ship ?
ii ..«-.. ^«^ 9f
TITANIO " DISASTBB. 187
Mr. Bride. Coming around from Belfast there were messages trans-
mitted for Mr. Ismay regarding the speed of the ship.
Senator Smfth. He was not then aboard ? Was he aboard the ship
from Belfast to Southampton ?
Mr. Bbide. I believe so.
Senator SifrrH. He was ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator SinrH. That was on the trial trip ?
Mr. Bride. Coming around from Belfast to Southampton, sir.
Senator Smith. That is, the trial tests were made in what waters ?
Mr. Bride. Belfast Lough.
Senator Smith. And then the ship was put under way for South-
ampton t
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. And while she was under way these messages from
Mr. Ismay were sent ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And received ? Did you get any reply ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. To whom were they sent, do you remember ?
Mr. Bride. They were sent to the White Star offices at Liverpool
and Southampton.
Senator Smith. Liverpool or London ?
Mr. Bride. Liverpool and Southampton.
Senator SMrrn. Can you recall what was contained in the messages ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Generally, do you know what they said ?
Mr. Bride. Generally, sir, that the trials of the speed of the ship
were very favorable.
Senator Smith. Were there any other messages for Mr. Ismay at
that time?
Mr. Bride. I can not recollect, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him aboard the Titanic after leaving
Southampton ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you send or receive any messages from or for
him after leaving Southampton ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell you. We had too many to remember
them all.
Senator Smith. If you received a message for the managing director
of the company, you might remember it ?
Mr. Bride. No; I can not.
Senator Smith. You can not say ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he come to the wireless office during that
journey?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. From Southampton to the time of the collision ?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge^ sir.
Senator Smith. Or after the colfision ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he send any word to you between Southampton
and the time of the collision ?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge.
188 TITANIC MSASTBB.
Senator Smith. Or after the collision ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he sent any messages or
received any messages wliile Mr. Phillips was at the apparatus?
Mr. Bride. I can not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear whether he did or not ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or whether he called upon Mr. Phillips or sent word
to him after the collision ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; he did not, sir. after the collision.
Senator Smith. Or on Sunday at all ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir. We had a lat of traffic on Sunday.
Senator Smith. You can not recall whether Mr. Ismay sent or re-
ceived any messages on Sunday ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you recall whether the captain of the ship
received any messages on Saturday or Sunday from any White Star
official regarding the movement, direction, or speed of the ship ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; he did not.
Senator Smith. How do you know he did not ?
Mr. Bride. Because I should have delivered it. I saw the captain's
messages. . I was delivering them for Mr. Phillips.
Senator Smith. You were not on duty all of the time during those
two days ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And during the time that Mr. Phillips was on duty
would you know what he received ?
Mr. Bride. I should know eventually, sir.
Senator Smith. Eventually ?
Mr. Bride. When I made up my accounts.
Senator Smith. Did you ever make i4p the accounts ?
Mr. Bride. Not for Sunday, sir.
Senator Smith. Not for Sunday ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or for Saturday ?
Mr. Bride. Saturday's accounts were made up; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you make them up ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you are ready to testify that the captain
received no message from any source over the wireless which in any
manner changed the course of his ship, its direction or its speed i
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Or any other officer of the ship ?
Mr. Bride. Yea, sir.
Senator Smith. Would the same answer apply to all ?
Mr. Bride, The same answer; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr, PhiUips say to you at any time that such
message had been received ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; he did not.
Senator Smith. Did the captain, or any other officer of the Tito wtV,
send any message to the White Star officers respecting the direction,
the speed, or the conditions of the weather, the sea, or its proximity
to the Great Banks?
1 1 ,^^^ >9
TITANIC DISASTER. 130
Mr. Bride. Communication had been established with the Baltic
on Sunday afternoon, and compliments were exchanged between the
two commanders, and the state of the weather.
Senator Smith. What else i Anything besides the state of the
weather ?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty when the wireless message was
received from the AmeriJca regarding the proximity of icebergs in that
longitude i
Mr. Bride. I have no knowledge of a wireless message received
from the Amerika regarding anv iceberg. There may liave been
received by Mr. PhiUips, but I did not see one myself.
Senator Smith. Have you heard that such a message was received ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did )Ir. Phillips say that such a message had been
received ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith, Did you ever talk with the captain about such a
message?
Mr. BRmE. There was a .message delivered to the captain in the
afternoon, sir, late in the afternoon, regarding
Senator Smith. OfSundav?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Bride. Regarding the ice field.
Senator Smith. From whom ?
Mr. BRmE. From the Califomiany sir.
Senator Smith. At what hour Sunday ?
Mr. Bride. It may not have been the Califomiany but I can give
you the call signal of the ship; it is ^'M. W. L.'' You can ascertain
that later.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Bride. I received that message myself and delivered it to the
captain. It stated that there were three large icebergs that the ship
had just passed, and it gave their position.
Senator Smith. What was the hour of the day ?
l^lr. Bride. Late in the afternoon, but I can not say the hour of the
dav.
Senator SMrrH. Dusk?
Mr. Bride. It was an unofticial message.
Senator Smith. From w^hom was it ?
Mr. BRmE. From this ship.
Senator Smith. The Califomianf
Mr. Bride. The ship with that call signal — M. W. L.
Senator Smith. Which was the code signal ?
Mr. BRmE. The code signal of the ship.
Senator Smith. Are you familiar with the code signals ?
Mr. Bride. I know a good few of them.
Senator Smith. Do you know what that means ?
Mr. Bride. That particular call signal means a certain sliip.
Senator Smith. ^ es. I want to know that shi{).
Mr. Sammis. It is the Californian. M. W. L. is the signal of the
Oalifomian.
140 TTTANIO DI8ABTEB.
Senator Smith. What is your name ?
Mr. Sammis. I am the engineer of the Marconi Co.
Senator Smith. What is your name ?
Mr. Sammis. Sammis.
Senator Smith. What is your first name ?
Mr. Sammis. Frederick.
Senator SMrrn. Who are you t
Mr. Sammis. I am the engineer of the American company.
Senator Smith. Of the American Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you say that this code signal
Mr. Sammis. Is the signal of the Califomian.
Senator Smith. Was it from the Califomianf
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is her signal?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is a recognized signal ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Among mariners or in the management of the wire-
less?
^ Mr. Sammis. Amongst the operators. Each ship has its own call,
and that is a distinctive call for each one.
Senator Smith. The Califomian is equipped with tlie Marconi ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And this is her registered signal i
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir; her call.
Senator Smith. Now, I would like to know just what that message
said?
Mr. Bride. In the first place the Calijamian had called me, sir,
with an ice report. I was rather busy just for the minute, and I did
not take it. ohe did not call again, ohe transmitted the ice report
to the Baltic, and as she was transmitting it to the Baltic I tooK it
down. I took it to the captain; but it was not official, because it was
not intended for me afterwards.
Senator Smith. Was the attempt made first upon you i
Mr. Bride. First on me; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And being unable to get you, they tried to get the
Baltic'i
Mr. Bride. It was about half an hour after that they transmitted
it to the Baltic.
Senator Smith. Why were they unable to get you ?
Mr. Bride. I was doing some writing at the time, sir.
Senator Smith. You mean you were taking some messages ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I was writing some accounts.
Senator Smith. You were writing some accounts ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Bride. On the operating table.
Senator Smith. On the operatmg table ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have this instrument off your head at the
time?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
t i _«. . ^«.^ 9 y
TITANIO DISASTER. 141
Senator Smith. Were you aware that the Califomian was trying to
get vou ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You continued your work on the accounts, if I
understand you correctly ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did not respond to the Califomian' 8 call ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. For 30 minutes ?
Mr. Bride. I do not think it was quite 30 minutes.
Senator Smith. How long a time was it ?
Mr. Bride. It majr have been. It would have been somewhere
between 20 and 30 minutes. I can not say definitely.
Senator Smith. Just what hour was this ?
Mr. Bride. Late in the afternoon.
Senator Smith. Of Sunday ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. I should say it was about 5 o'clock.
Senator Smith. About six hours before that cdamity occurred i
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your work continue for about 20 or 30 minutes
on the accounts ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. After you had finished, what did you do ?
^Ir. Bride. I still remained on watch imtil dinner time.
Senator Smith. Had you had any other wireless comn^unications
regarding the proximity of icebergs ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. This information that you got from the Californian
was the first information ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that you received about half past 5 o'clock,
the afternoon of Sunday ?
Mr. Bride. I should say it was nearer 5 o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. When you took it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Then, when the first call was made it must have
been about half past 4 o'clock ?
ifr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. The ship being under steam and moving all the
timet
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you got this call from the CaZifomian which
was intended for the Baltic, wnat did you do ?
Mr, Bride. I simplv waited until she informed the Baltic. It was
an ice report. Then 1 knew it would be the same one she had for me,
so I took it down.
Senator Smith. And dehvered it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. I acknowledged it to the Califomian before
I delivered it.
Senator Smith. You acknowledged it ?
Mr. Bride. I acknowledged the receipt of it.
Senator Smith. How much time elapsed while you were waiting to
confinn this report through the Balticf
142 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Bride. I did not confirm it through the Baltic. I confirmed it
direct to the Califomian,
Senator Smith. Confirmed it with the Califomian?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In your acknowledgment ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much time elapsed ?
Mr. Bride. I should say about four minutes.
Senator Smith. What did you say in confirming this report to the
Califomianf
Air. Bride. I gave the usual acknowledgment of receipt, '*R. D./'
the Marconi signal.
Senator Smith. R. D. indicates ^ * received ?"
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you said nothing more ?
Mr. Bride. Nothing more.
Senator Smith. But you are certain that the Califomian knew that
you had this message ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they respond directly ?
Mr. Bride. They simply gave the usual finishing signal **T. I. S.'* —
'^M.L.W."
Senator Smith. After you had put the R. D. on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So that you knew they were aware of the fact
that you had received this message ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, once more I would like to have you tell the
exact language of that message.
Mr. Bride. It stated the Califomian had passed three large ice-
bergs, and gave their latitude and longitude.
Senator Smith. That they had passed three large icebergs ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And gave their latitude and longitude?
Mr. Bride. Yes;' that she had passed very close to them.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect what the latitude and longitude
were ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; indeed I do not.
Senator Smith. Did you make a record of this communication ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I made it on a slip of paper and handed it to
the bridge.
Senator Smith. Intending to make a permanent record of it ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you not obliged to make a record of it ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
wSenator Smith. The reason you made no record of this message
was because it was not official?
Mr. Bride. It was not official, sir. If we kept a record of all these
messages we should never be able to get through our work.
Senator Smith. If it had been official vou would have preserved
it?
Mr. Bride. I should have preserved it.
Senator Smith. And made permanent record of it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
1 1 — — , . ^^,^ 9 >
TIIANIG DISASTER. 148
Senator Smith. You took that message to the captain ?
Mr. Brii>£. The officer on the bridge ?
Senator Smith. Who was the oflicer on the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir; I do not know the officers, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it Mr. LightoUer ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell you.
Senator Smith. You do not know whether it was the first or
second officer ?
Mr. Bride. I did not know any of the officers there; I did not
know what watches they were keeping.
Senator Smith. You did not know what watches they were
keeping?
\ir. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You took it to the officer on the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. Yes ; on the bridge.
Senator Smith. At what hour.
Mr. Bride. A little after 5, sir.
Senator Smith. A Kttle after 5 ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was that officer Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I know the officers by sight, but I do not know
their names.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock was first officer and he was in charge
of the lookout at the time. Can you verify that in any way ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate this message to the captain ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; 1 gave it to the officer on watch, sir.
Senator Smith. I just wanted to know whether you communicated
it to the captain, yourself ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You communicated it to the officer in charge of the
watch who had charge of the ship at the time ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any other communications regard-
ing icebergs ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir. •
Senator Smith. From any ship, that afternoon or evening ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. PhiUips receive a message from the
AmeriJcaf
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not receive one from the Amerikaf
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You are very certain about that ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you also very certain that the only message you
received regarding icebergs was received from the Calif omianf
Mr. Bride. Personally ; yes, sir. As to what Mr. Philhps received,
I can not say.
S^ator Smith. No; I am not asking you that. Now, once more:
Did Mr. Phillips at any time sav to you that a message had been re-
ceived from any other ship on that subject ?
144 " TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Mr. Bridb. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was on duty at the wireless station from
6 o'clock Sunday evening until the collision or impact ?
Mr. Bride. I was on duty for half an hour, sir, while Mr. Phillips
went and had his dinner.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Bride. From 7 o'clock until half past.
Senator Smith. Where were you after that, up to the time of the
collision ?
Mr. Bride. At the time of the collision ?
Senator Smith. Up to the time of the collision.
Mr. Bride. I was m bed.
Senator Smith. You had retired ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In a room adjacent to the apparatus?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you and Mr. Phillips both occupy that room ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far was it from the apparatus ?
Mr. Bride. Just next door to it.
Senator Smith. With a door between ?
Mr. Bride. There was a door between; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Could you enter immediately from the apparatus,
or operating room, to the bedroom ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You retired at what time ?
Mr. Bride. It was just about 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Were you in bed when this collision occurred 1
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you asleep ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you awakened by it ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How were you awakened ?
Mr. Bride. I woke up of my own accord.
Senator Smith. No one aroused you after that impact ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did you lie in bed after the collision ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Phillips not arouse you ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or attempt to do so ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what time you arose from your bed?
Mr. Bride. It must have been about a quarter to 12, sir; about
5 minutes to 12, ship's time.
Senator Smith. Five minutes to 12, ship's time?
Mr. Bride. Yes,* sir.
Senator Smith. What time did the collision occur?
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You remamed in bed until 12.05?
Mr. Bride. I think it was this side of 12, sir; it was about 5 miilutes
to 12.
it .^^...^^^ ff
XITANIO DISASTBB. 145
Senator Smith. Then you must have been aroused somewhat by
this impact ?
Mr. Sbide. No; I had promised to relieve Mr. Phillips earlier than
usual, you see.
Senator Smith. Earher than usual, that night ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you awakened yourself ?
Mr. Bbide. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you arise immediately ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And dress yourself ?
Mr. Bride. I went out to speak to him before I dressed. I only had
pajamas on.
Senator Smith. Before you put your clothes on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him ?
Mr. Bride. I asked him how he was getting on.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Mr. Bride. He had a big batch of telegrams from Cape Race that
he had just finished.
Senator Smith. He told you that ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Had he finished his work ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. This was after the collision ?
Mr. Bride. After the collision.
Senator Smith. Did you remain in the operating room f
Mr. Bride. I got dressed first.
Senator Smith. You returned to the bedroom and got dressed f
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During that time did Mr. Phillips tell you that the
boat had been injured ?
Mr. Bride. He told me that he thought she had got damaged in
some way and that he expected that we should have to go back to
Harlan & Wolff's.
Senator Smith. Those are the builders, at Belfast ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Bride. I took over the watch from him.
Senator Smith. You took the watch from him ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator ^^mith. Where did he go ?
Mr. Bride. He was goins: to retire, sir.
Senator Smith. Did ne retire ?
Mr. Bride. He got inside of the other room when the captain came
in, then.
Senator Smith. The captain came in?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Personally ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To the operating room ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the captain say?
Mr. Bride. He told us that we had better get assistance.
146 UTANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Can you tell us in his language ?
Mr. Bride. That is exactly what he said. He said, * * You had bet-
ter get assistance." When Mr. Phillips heard him he came out and
asked him if he wanted him to use a distress call. He said, ' * Yes ; at
once.''
Senator Smith. Who sent tliis call ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips.
Senator Smith. He responded to the captain's desire ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you turned the apparatus over to him?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the message sent immediately?
Mr. Bride. Immediately.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the message was ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Please state it.
Mr. Bride. C. Q. D. about half a dozen times; M. G. Y. half a
dozen times.
Senator Smith. Will you kindly explain the meaning of these
letters or that code ?
Mr. Bride. C. Q. D. is a recognized distress call; M. G. Y. is the
code call of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Is C. Q. D. in itself composed of the first letters of
three words, or merely a code ?
Mr. Bride. Merely a code call, sir.
Senator Smith. But one recognized by operators as important and
as a distress call ? /
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long after that call was sent out was it before
you got a reply ?
Mr. Bride. As far as I know, immediately, sir.
Senator Smith. Within two or three minutes?
Mr. Bride. You see I could read what Mr. Phillips was sending,
but I could not get the answers because he had the telephones.
Senator Smith. You knew what he had sent, but you did not know
what he received in reply ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Right at this point I am going to ask Mr. Marconi
if he will tell us what C. Q. D. means, Uterally.
Mr. Marconi. It is a conventional signal.
Senator Smith. You moan it is in accordance with the international
convention ?
Mr. Marconi. No; it is not. It is a conventional signal which
was introduced originally by my company to express a state of danger
or peril of a ship that sends it.
Mr. Uhler. It is an arbitrary signal ?
Mr. Marconi. It is arbitrary, but it is conventional. Everyone
understands it.
''C. Q.'' means ''All stations,'' does it not, Mr. Bride?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Mr. Marconi. C. Q. is the call for all stations. If you call C. Q.
on a ship it means, ''All other stations stand at attention, and reply."
I did not make the signal originally. I presume the object was*^ to
indicate, in a certain way, to all stations, the danger or peril that
existed.
fi .^.«.«^*^ 9f
irrAlSlO 0IBA8TBB. 147
Mr. KiKLiN. Or distress ?
ifr. Marconi. Or distress, yes.
I should add that the international danger signal, introduced or
decided on bv the Berlin convention, is S. O. S.
Senator Smith. What does that mean?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know what it means. It denotes danger or
iiistress. I believe that was sent, too, from the Titanic; but, of
course, Mr. Bride will tell you, if it is the fact.
Senator Smith. What is the silent signal ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know it, personally.
Senator Smith. Under the international convention, I mean.
Mr. Marconi. I do not know it.
Mr. Bride. It is D. D. D.
Mr. Marconl D. D. D.
Senator Smith. That is the silent signal ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; that means *'shut up."
Senator Smith. All other stations must cease ?
Mr. Marconi. All other stations must cease.
Senator Smith. But the danger signal, C. Q. D., is the recognized
signal for a ship in distress ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. You received a reply within three or four minutes,
but you onlv know that from what
Mr. Bride, ilr. Phillips told me.
Senator Smith. Just what did he tell you?
Mr. Bride. He told me to go the captain and report the Frankfurt.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by the FranJcfyirtf
Mr. Bride. He was in communication with the Frankfurt, sir; he
had sent the Frankfurt our position.
Senator Smith. Was the Frankfurt the first ship that picked up the
C. Q. D. ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you delivered that message to the captain?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Personally?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was he at the time ?
Mr. Bride. He was on the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. On the boat deck ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Not on the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. The boat deck being the sun deck, or upper deck ?
Mr. Bride. Being the decks where the boats are ?
Senator Smith. Where the Ufeboats are.
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say in reply when you handed him
this message ?
Mr. Bride. He wanted to know where she was, sir.
Senator Smith. Her latitude ?
Mr. Bride. And longitude, sir. I told him we would got that as
soon as we could.
Senator Smith. W^hat did you do then ?
Mr. Bride. I went back to the cabin with Mr. Phillips.
ii .-•... ^^-^^ 99
148 TITANIC DIBABTBS.
Senator Smith. What did you tell him ?
Mr. Bride. I told him I had reported to the captain.
Senator Smith. And the captain wished that the position of the
boat should be ascertained ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips was waiting for the position of the boat
then, sir.
Senator Smfth. What was the next message received by Mr.
PhiUips ?
Mr. Bride. A reply from the Carpaihia.
Senator Smith. A reply to the C. Q. D. call ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From the CarpatJiiat
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the Carpaihia give her location ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; after she had obtained it from the bridge.
Senator Smith. What did the Carpathia message say 1
Mr. Bride. She sent her latitude and lon^tuoe and told him she
was coming along as quickly as possible. She turned around and
was steaming full speed, or words to that effect.
Senator Smith. That she had reversed her course ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. .
Senator Smith. And was steaming at full speed toward the TUanicf
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. ViThat was done with this message ?
Mr. Bride. It was taken to the captain, sir. I took it to the
captain.
Senator Smith. Where did you find him then ?
Mr. Bride. He was in the wheelhouse.
Senator Smith. What ?
Mr. Bride. In the wheelhouse, upon the bridge.
Senator Smith. In the pilot house ?
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. The wheelhouse.
Senator Smith. The wheelhouse ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. He could enter the wheelhouse from the bridge 1
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the captain say when you delivered that
message?
Mr. Bride. He came back with me to the cabin, sir.
Senator Smith. He came back with you to the cabin ?
Mi. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What took place ?
Mi. Bride. He asked Mr. Phillips what other ships he was in com-
munication with, sir.
Senator Smith. He asked Mr. PhiUips what other ships he was in
communication with ?
Mr. Bride* Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And what was said ?
Mi. Bride. He interrupted Mr. Phillips when Mr. Phillips was
estabUshing communication with the Olympic, so he was told the
Olympic was there.
Senator Smith. Then what took place, Mr. Bride 1
a ^.^. ^,,^ 9 9
TITAKIC DISASTER. 149
Mr. Bride. Why, he worked out the (lifTerence between the Car-
pathians position and ours, sir.
Senator Smith. Who did ?
Mr. Bride. The captain.
Senator Smith. The captain worked out the difference ?
Mr. Bride. He roughly estimated it.
Senator Smith. Worked out the difference between the Carpathians
pi>sition and that of the Olympic?
Mr. Bride. No; the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Between the Carpathians position and that of the
Titanic?
ilr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And then what occuiTed ?
Mr. Bride. He went out to the cabin then, and we still continued to
exchange.
Senator Smith. He went out to the cabin ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the operator continued what ?
Mr. Bride. To exchange messages, sir.
Senator Smith. To exchange messages?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the next message, so far as you can
recollect ?
Mr. Bride. Well, after the Olympic, sir, we did not get any replies,
and I asked Mr. Pnillips outside — well, he went outside to see how
they were getting on, and I took the phones.
Senator Smith. I understand from you that the first response to
the C. Q. D. call of distress was from the FranJcfurtf
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What line of boats ?
Mr. Bride. German line, as far as I can remember, sir.
Mr. Marconi. The North German Lloyd.
Senator SMrrn. Did you receive any other communication from
the FranJcfurtf
Mr. Bride. Not then, sir. Wo had transmitted to the Frankfurt
our position, but we had received nothing from him in return.
Senator Smith. You transmitted to the Frankfurt your position in
the sea^
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And never received any further acknowledgment?
ilr. Bride. He told us to stand by, sir. That means to wait.
Senator SMrrn. The Frankfurt tolcl you to stand by ?
ilr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Does that mean *'! am coming?''
Mr. Bride. It means wait; he is coming back again.
Senator Smith. Where was the Frankfurt headed for ?
ilr. Bride. I believe she was bound east, sir; but I can not say for
certain.
Senator Smith. Had you been in communication with the Frankfurt
during that day or the preceding day ?
Mr. Bride. 1 can not say, sir, as to that.
Senator SMrrn. What is your best recollection about it ?
ifr. Bride. I can not say, sir. We were in communication with
several ships during the afternoon and evening.
40475— FT ^-12 3
150 TITAXIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Is it impossible for you to recall whether you had
any communication from the Frankfurt, or sent any to her, at an^'
time during the voyage from Southampton to tfie place of this
collision ?
Mr. Bride. I do not think there was any communication estab-
lished with the Frankfurt before we sent the distress si^al, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you pick up any message from the Frankfurt
intended for any other operator?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the Frankfurt's position was
when she received the C Q. D. call ?
,Mr. Bride. Tliat is what we were waiting for, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever ascertain ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone say in your hearing that they thought
the Frankfurt was in closer proximity to the Titanic than any other
ship?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; Mr. Phillips told me so.
Senator Smith. Wlio said that ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips told me that, judging by the strength of
the signals received from the two ships, the Frarvkfurt was the nearer.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Phillips tell you that he was trying to
establish such communication with the Frankfurt as would brin^
that ship to your relief ?
Mr. Bride. Well, Mr. Phillips was under the impression that when
irhe Frankfurt had heard the C. Q. D. and got our position, he would
immediately make it known to liis commander and take further steps.
Apparently he did not.
Senator Smith. Did the captain of the Titanic make any personal
reference to that matter to vou, or within vour hearing, or to Mr.
PhilUps?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; he asked us where the Frankfurt was, but >ve
told him we could not tell him.
Senator Smith. But from the force of the current Mr. Phillips gath-
ered that the Frankfurt was the nearer ship i
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the fact that it was the first to respond was
rather confirmatorv of that ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; it would not be.
Senator Smith. It would not be?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any oflicer on the Titanic a( any time express
the hope that the Frankfurt would come firet to their relief ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou have anv other communication with tlie
Frankfurt after that ship responded to the distress call ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was it?
Mr. Bride. He called us up at a considerably long period afterwards
and asked us what was the matter.
Senator Smith. How long after ?
Mr. Bride. I should sav it would be considerablv over 20 minutes
afterwards.
it . ^.^_ fy
TITANIC DISASTER. 151
Senator Smith. Twenty minutes after the message giving your
position, the position of the Titanic
Mr. Bride. And the C. Q. D.
Senator Smith (continuing). And the C. Q. D. distress call, you
got another message from the Frankfurt saying, ' ' What is the matter V^
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they say anything else?
Mr. Bride. He merely inquired, sir, as to what was the matter
with us.
Senator Smith. To that message what did you say?
Mr. Bride. I think Mr. Phillips responded rather hurriedly.
Senator Smith. Wliat did he say? I would like to know?
Mr. Bride. Well, he told him to the effect that he was a bit of a fool.
Senator Smith. Just give it in his language.
Mr. Bride. Well, he told him he was a fool, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that all?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he preface that word with anything more
severe ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator SMrm. Did Mr. Phillips then tell him what was tlie matter?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he have any further communication with the
Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. No, sir. He told him to stand by, sir — finish.
Senator Smith. In the interim you had got into communcation
uTth the Carpaihiaf
Mr. Bride. And the Olympic.
Senator Smith. And the Olympic?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Both of whom assured you they were coming?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To your relief \
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To what line does the Olmypic belong?
Mr. Bride. White Star, sir.
Senator Smith. And the Carpathia belongs to the Cunard Line ?
Mr. Bride. The Cunard; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever learn the position of the FranJcfurt?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After she had first responded to your call ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. PhiUips ask for it?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How often?
Mr. Bride. When she first answered our C. Q. D. he said, *'Go and
get your position." The FranJcfurt repHed ** Stand by."
Senator Smith. Did the Frankfurt at that time know your position (
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was your interpretation of ''stand by," in
that connection?
Mr. Bride. To wait for his position and what he was going to do
about the matter.
Senator Smith. Did you ever get the position of the Frankfurt?
152 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Phillips ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you and Mr. Phillips talk about it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say to one another about it?
Mr. Bride. We expressed our opinions of the operator on the
Frankfurt,
Senator Smith. Was it critical ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And uncompUmentary ?
Mr. Bride. Very.
Senator Smith. Was it based upon any knowledge or suspicion
that the operator was personally derelict in his duty ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it based upon any suspicion that the FranJc-
fart had not responded to this distress call as that ship should have
done?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it a matter of deep regret between you and
Mr. Phillips ?
Mi. Bride. Well, it was at the time when the Frankfurt asked us
what the matter was with us, because we realized then that we were
getting into — we realized what Had happened to the ship.
Senator Smith. But you realized at tnat time that all the lives on
that ship depended upon getting relief fiom some other vessel?
Mr. Bride. At the time the Frankfurt asked us what was the mat-
ter with us; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. After you told him that he was a fool, did you
tell him the ship was going down ?
Mr. Bride. >«o, sir; we told him to stand by, sir; to keep out of it.
Senator Smith. Keep out of what ?
Mr. Bride. Not to interfere with his instrument, sir; because we
were in communication with the CarpatJiiay and we knew that tlio
Carpathia was the best thing doing.
Senator Smith. Did you toll that to the operator of the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When you said '*Keep out of it,'' could that bo
interpreted as in any way changing the first distress call ?
Mr. Bride. Merely told him not to interfere with our communica-
tions.
Senator Smith. He had not responded as you felt he ought to
ics])ond ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. He had not indicated that they were coming ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. He had impressed vou with the lack of apprecia-
tion for your situation? Stop me if 1 am not interpreting you cor-
rectly; I am summarizing what you have said. Am I correct about
that ?
Mr. Bride. It struck me so — that he did not seem to be able to
realize the position we were in.
Senator Smith. And you are quite sure that you gave him all the
information necessary ?
a ..^«.^«*^ 9 9
TITANIO DISASTBB. 153
Mr. Bride. Wo made it very clear to him.
Senator Smcth. You mean m referring to the condition you were
in, vou referred to the sinking of the Titanicf
3lr. Bride. If you call C. Q. D. and give your position, then there
is no necessity for another ship to inquire further into the matter, if
he is coming to your assistance, because you could not call C. Q. D.
unless you were m need of assistance.
Senator Smith. Now, C. Q. D. was the strongest language that you
could use under your wireless regulations to apprise any station that
you needed help immediately; is that right?
Mr. Bride. Any operator hearing a CT Q. D., giving a ship's posi-
tion, when on the job, would immediately, without inquiring further
into the matter, go to liis captain and inform his captain. It would
be a waste of time asking anything about it. The less time spent in
talking, the more time can be spent in getting to the ship.
The last question was read by the reporter.
Mr. Bride. We could not send anything more than C. Q. D.
Senator Smith. After you told this operator he was a fool, and 20
minutes had gone by, did you tell him that your ship was sinking ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you give him any additional information ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir. He ought not to have wanted any in the first
Senator Smith. Upon the information you did give him, are you
ready to say whether the ship responded or not ?
Mr. Bride. There ought not to have been any doubt about the
information we gave him at all, sir; he ought to have known what to
do with it immediately.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, the Frankfurt did not respond ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you tell us what confirmation you have that
the operator of the Frankfurt received your C. Q. D. distress call
correctly ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips had the telephones on at the time,- sir.
He called "C. Q. D.'' The Frankfurt answered. He gave the Frank-
furl our position. He said, "Come at once." The Frankfurt said,
'*' Stand by." We waited, and that is the last we heard of the Frank-
furt until he said, "What was the matter with you ?" a considerable
period afterwards.
Senator Smith. After he said, "What was the matter with you?"
tlien what was said ?
Mr. Bride. We told him he was a fool, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that the last thing you said to him ?
Mr. Bride. To the Frankfurty yes, sir. ^
Senator Smith. You recall that you said later to him to keep out,
not to interfere with your insulation, or
Mr. Bride. We told him to keep out and not interfere with our
communication.
Senator Smith. Was that all in the one message ?
Mr. Bride. That was all in the one message.
Senator Smith. '*You are a fool. Keep out and do not interfere
with our communication."
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
(( ..^^..;.^«^ ff
154 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. That was all in the one message ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that was the last thing you said to the FranTc-
furtf '
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, did you see the Frankfurt in the vicinity of
the wreck of the Titanic, or after you were taken on board the
CarwUhiat
Mr. Bride. The only ship I saw, sir, was the Carvatkia,
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the CarpcUhia had any com-
munication of any kind from the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I can not say.
Senator Smith. You could not say ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. While you were at the key, or at the apparatus,
no message was received from the Frankfurtf
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I think right there I would like to ask Mr. Cottom
one or two questions.
TESTIMOFSr OF HASOLD T. COTTAH— Becalled.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any message from the Frartkfurt^
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; none whatever.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any being sent from the Car-
paihia to the Frankfurtf
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not pick up any stray messages ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. All right.
TESTIMOFSr OF HABOLD S. BBIDE— Eesnmed.
Senator SMrrn. Mr. Bride, do you know whether the operator on
the Frankfurt understood the English language 1
Mr. Bride. There was no necessity for liim to understand the
English language, sir.
^nator Smith. Because this call
Mr. Bride. Was an international call.
Senator Smith. And C. Q. D. means the same in the German
language and the French language and the English language ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And is the international code signal of distress ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Under the Berlin convention ?
Mr. Bride. I can not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Under tne regulations of the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Bride. It is recognized by all ships' operators as being a signal
of distress.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, I want this record to be as complete
as possible, and I desire to know why, after a message was received
from the Frankfurt asking '* What is the matter" you did not reply
<* -,— .^^,« >9
TITANIC DISASTER. 155
"We are sinking and the lives of our passengers and crew are in dan-
^er"?
Mr. Bride. You see, it takes a certain amount of time to transmit
that information, sir. If the man had understood properly, as he
ought to have, C. Q. D. would have been sufficient, sir. C. Q. D. is
the whole thing in a nutshell, you see.
Senator Smith. Yes; but it did not seem to move him.
Mr. Bride. Well, he did not know his business, that is all, sir.
Senator Smith. But in such an emergency do you not think that a
more detailed statement might have been sent ? Take, for instance,
the message from the Titantic to the Carpathia that the boiler rooms
were filling with water and the ship sinking; that could have been
sent with perfect propriety to a boat that was in proximity, could it
not ?
Mr. Bi^iDE. No, sir; I do not think it could have been, under the
circumstances.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to say that the regulations under
which you operate are such that in a situation of this character you
have such discretionary power that you may dismiss an inquiry of
that character
Mr. Bride. You use your common sense.
Senator Smith (continuing). Without fijrther word?
Mr. Bride. You use your common sense, and the man on the Frank-
furi apparently was not using his at the time.
Senator Smith. I know, out the theory upon which you were
angered was that the Frankfurt was closer to you than any other
ship i
Mr, Bride. The Frankfurt was the first one. We had not got the
position. We could not say he. was nearer. The signals were
stronger.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Bride, I would like to ask you whether
your dismissing the somewhat tardy inquiry of the Frankfurt was due
to the fact that you were in constant communication with the Car-
pathia; understand me ?
Mr. Bride. Well, it appeared to Mr. Phillips and me, sir, that the
Carpathia was the only tning we could hope for at the time we told
the Frankfurt to keep out of it.
Senator Smith. In other words, you held on to a certainty rather
than an uncertainty?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The results of vour communications with the
Carpaihia were such as led, you to believe that the operator on
the Carpathia and the officers of that ship understood fully 3'our
position and the danger you were in ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And were coming toward you at full speed ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In that situation, if the Frankfurt had been 20
miles nearer the Titanic than the Carpathia, would vou still have
thought, from what you knew of the ship's condition, tfiat it was wise
to confine your communications to the Carpathia ?
Mr. Bride. Had we known the FranTcfurVs \iO^\X\or\, having already
Kot the Carpaihia'a position, we should have used our judgment, and
had the Frankfurt been any reasonable distance nearer we should
156 TITANIC DISASTER.
have informed the Frankfurt of the whole business and repeated
each word we sent to him about a dozen times, to make sure he got it.
Senator Smith. Her position, however, was an object of some
speculation ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And your only reason for thinking the Frankfurt
was nearer, if I understood you, was because of the strength of this
wireless current ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the fact that it first responded ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. The strength of the current ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I want you to tell, in order that this record may
contain it, just how you distinguish between the velocities of currents
in wdreless telegrapK}-, the strength of the signals.
Mr. Bride. When a ship is working wireless, there is no trouble
whatever in reading her signals. You can read the signals through
the telephone. When you have one telephone off, 3"ou can read them
through one telephone. When a ship gets 100 miles off, you have to
have both telephones on and devote your attention to it; and as the
ship gets farther and farther away the difficulty in reading the signals
increases and the strength* of. the signals decreases.
Senator Smith. Decreases ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That would depend somewhat upon the equipment
or apparatus
Mr. Bride. Certainlv.
Senator Smith. With which the Frankfurt was equipped ?
Mr. Bride. Certainly.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about the character of the
wireless apparatus on the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what company installed that service ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir."
Senator Smith. You do not know whether it was the Merconi Co.
or not ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. ^larconi, do you know how the Frankfurt is
equipped ?
Mr. Marconi. The Frankfurt is, I believe, a ship belonging to the
North German Lloyd. She is equipped by a German company,
called the Debed Co. It means a lot of things in German, each letter,
which I will not go into, of which I am a director.
Senator Smith. You are a director in the German company ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you are familiar with the wireless equipment
or apparatus ?
Mr. Marconi. I am not familiar with the wireless equipment of
that particular ship.
Senator Smith. So that you would be unable to make a compara-
tive statement — to make a comparison between the equipment or
apparatus on the Carpathia and the apparatus on the Frankfurt?
ilr. Marconi. I would be unable, sir, to do it.
t( ^^^ jy
TITANIC DISASTER. 157
Senator Smith. Would the fact that the Frankfurt is equipped with
an apparatus of German type in any way lessen their interest in calls
made through the Marconi machine or apparatus ?
Mr. Marconi. No; because it is a Marconi apparatus. It is made
in Germany, but it is made under my patents under an arrangement
which we have with German interests.
Senator Smith. Let me ask you: Are the regulations of Germany,
with reference to the operation and use of wireless telegraphy, in
perfect harmony with the Berlin convention?
Mr. Marconi. Absolutely. They were enacted at Berlin and most
of them were inspired bv the German Government.
Senator Smith. Are tliese calls that are recognized prescribed in
the Berlin convention ?
Mr. Marconi. The call of the Berlin convention, which has only
been recently introduced, is this S. O. S. call, but the Marconi coni-
panies have used and use the C. Q. D. call. The Frankfurt, which
was equipped with wireless, belonged to one of what I may call the
Marconi companies, because I would not be a director of thecompany
if it was not associated with us.
Senator Smith. Would you think that any confusion would arise,
growing out of this international arrangement of signal, with the
Marconi signal \
Mr. Marconi. Xo; I should state that the international signal is
really less known than the Marconi Co.'s signal.
Senator Smith. So that the C. Q. D. call must have been under-
stood in its full simificance by the Frankfurt o))erator ?
Mr. Marconi. I have got ar)solutely no doubt as to that.
Senator Smith. And under the regulations would that be sufiicient ?
Mr. Marconi. That would be sufficient.
Senator Smith. To bring relief ?
Mr, Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. I want to know this, before I get away from it. I
want to know whether the communications between the Titanic and
the Carpaihia were not also within the radius of the Frankfurt? I
would like to know whether these communications could have been
|)icked up by the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. Certainly they could have been.
Senator Smith. Ilail the operator on the Frankfurt shown vigilance.
Mr. Bride. Certainly. He ought have hoard every word that
parsed between us.
Senator Smith. When you told him to keej) out you were guarding
against that thing?
Mr. Bride. We were guarding against his iiit<»rfering with other
communications which we might establish, and we liad already
estabUshed.
Senator Smith. How could it interfere with you ?
Mr. Bride. Because you can not read two ships at once.
Senator Smith. Have you any reason to believe that the signals
given by the Titanic to tlie Carpathian and the replies of the Carpathia
or the Olympic, were received oy the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. Xo, sir.
Senator Smith. You have no reason to assume that that was the
case?
158 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bride. I could not tell. If he was listening he would hear
them. If he was not listening he could not hear them.
Senator Smith. No messages came, involved or otherwise, that
would indicate that the Frankfurt haa gotten any other information
than the information you first gave her?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In order that the record mav contain the answer,
I would like to know whether it would have taken any longer or any
more effort for you to have sent the same message to the Frankfurt
that was sent to the Carpaihia, when you realized that you were in
imminent danger? Is there any code signal for ^^fooP' ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It would have taken no more time to apprise the
Frankfurt of your perilous condition, growing more so all the time
since the C. Q. D. call ?
Mr. Bride. He did not acknowledge the receipt of that when we
told him he was a fool and told him to keep out.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact it would not have taken any
more time to say ''we are sinking" than it would have taken to have
told him ''you are a fool"?
Mr. Bride. I assume Mr. Phillips thought that if he did not get our
first C. Q. D., which was sent slowly and carefully by Mr. Phillips, he
would not get anything else.
Senator Smith. Do you think he understood your message that he
was a fool ?
Mr. Bride. I doubt it. I think it was sent too fast for him.
Senator Smith. I gather from what you say that you have not
much confidence in tne ability of the operator on the Frankfurt?
Mr. Bride. There ought to have been no question raised, sir, as
to what he should have done as to our C. Q. D. call.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, you remained with Mr. Phillips at the
apparatus how long ?
Mr. Bride. All the time.
Senator Smith. After the boiloi-s were submerged, after the eustom-
ai-y power had been submerged, did you have a reserve power on the
Titanic ?
Mr. Bride. The customary power was not submerged.
Senator Smith. Not submerged ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; not submerged.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Was there a reserve power there ?
Mr. Bride. There was a reserve power on the top deck?
Senator Smith. But you had no occasion to use it?
Mr. Bride. The motor and alternator that was working our wire-
loss set were running when we left the cabin, 10 minutes before the
ship went down.
Senator Smith. Did you continue to send messages, or Mr. Phillips,
up to the time you left the cabin ?
Mr. Bride. When we had finished with the Frankfurt, and we had
thoroughly informed the Carpathia of our position, Mr. Phillips again
w-ent out to look and see how things w^re going outside. I tried to
establish a communication with the Baltic, and it was not very satis-
factoiy, and I judged myself, from the strength of her signals, that
" TITANIC '* DISASTER. 159
she was too far away to do any good and it was not worth taking
any trouble, and I told her we were sinking fast and there was no
hope of saving the ship.
benator Smith. Told who ?
Mr. Bbide. The Baltic.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Phillips return from the deck l
Mr. Beide. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To the room ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What tlid he say to you then ?
Mr. Bride. He told us he thought it was time we put on our life
belts.
Senator Smith. Did you act upon his suggestion ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And both of you put on life belts ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At that time had all the lifeboats been lowered ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You paid no attention to the lifeboats ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips told me that things looked very queer
outside. Beyond that I knew nothing.
Senator Smith. How did you interpret the word ''queer" ?
Mr. Bride. The sooner we were out of it the better.
Senator Smith. What did you do then, Mr. Bride ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. PhUlips sat down acain at the telephones and gave
a general call of C. Q. D., but I think that our lamps were runiuiig
down ; we did not get a spark. We could not tell, because the sparK
of our wireless was in an inclosed room. We could not hear at any
time whether it was sparking.
Senator Smith. When Mr. Phillips sat down to the instrument did
he have a life preserver on, and dia you put one on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did you put one on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Immediately ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But after he had put the life preserver on he tried
and succeeded, as I understand you, m sending a last message, and
that message was C. Q. D. ; and anything else ?
Mr. Bride. General C. Q. D., M. G. Y.; waiting for some one to
answer.
Senator Smith. What did you do then, Mr. Bride?
Mr. Bride. On Mr. Phillips's request I started to gather up his
spare money and put on anotner coat, and made general preparations
for leaving the ship.
Senator Smith. How did you expect to leave the ship ?
Mr. Bride. We had to wait until the captain told us, first.
Senator Smith. You had to wait until the captain told you ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. He came along in a very short period after-
wards and told us we had better look out for ourselves.
Senator Smith. You waited until the captain told you that you
could leave the ship ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long was that before the ship disappeared i
H ff
160 TITANIC • DISASTER.
Mr. Bride. I should say it was just about a quarter of an hour.
Senator Smith. About 15 minutes?
Mr. Bride. About 15 minutes.
Senator Smith. And the captain said you had better take care of
yourselves ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he indicate what he was going to do ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was he when he said this ?
Mr. Bride. He came around to the cabin to tell us.
Senator Smith. He came around to the cabin ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there anyone else on the deck?
Mr, Bride. Oh, there were other people on the deck.
Senator Smith. Witli you ?
Mr. Bride. Yes; they were running around all over the place.
Senator Smith. How running around ?
Mr. Bride. Several people looking for life belts and looking for
refreslmients.
Senator Smith. I want to locate exactly the position of this operat-
ing room of yours with reference to the boat deck or upper deck.
Is it at the rear of the A or B deck ?
Mr. Bride. I believe on the Titanic^ sir, the boat deck was called
A deck. There was no deck above that, with the exception of a
little deck which covered the roofs of the houses that were on A deck.
Senator Smith. These people that you say were running around
were running around these decks, all of them ?
Mr. Bride. The officers' quarters were situated together with the
Marconi cabin, the officers' rooms, and other places, and the people
were running around through these cabins. We had a woman in
our cabin who had fainted.
Senator Smith. A woman in your cabin who had fainted?
Mr. Bride. And we were giving her a glass of water there and a
chair. We set her down on a chair, which she wanted badly, and
tlien her husband took her away again.
Senator Smith. You gave her a glass of water and revived her,
aiK^ her liusband took her away? :
^Ir. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they have on life preservers ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But some of these passengers or persons were
without life belts at that time, and were looking for them?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You and your assistant had on life belts, and after
this final message, C Q D and M G Y, that was the last you saw of
the wireless apparatus ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any lifeboats after that ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there was any on the ship
at that time ?
Mr. Bride. There were no big lifeboats on the ship at that time.
There was a collapsible boat on the top deck at the side of the forward
funnel.
4< . ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 161
Senator Smith. You mean over the officers' quarters ?
Mr. Bride. Over the officers' cabm, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what was done with that ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was done with it ?
Mr. Bride. It was pushed over on to the boat deck.
Senator Smith. What was done then with it ?
Mr. Bride. Went over the side.
Senator Smith. You never saw it ?
;Mr. Bride. Yes; I went over with it.
Mr. BuRLiNOHAM. He says it went over the side.
Senator Smith. I understand what the second officer said about it.
I want to know whether you saw it again ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; it went over the side of the ship. It was
washed oflF by a wave.
Senator Smith. It was washed over the side of the ship by a wave ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And fell into the water ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Bottom side upward ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And how far were you from the water when you
saw this boat fall ?
Mr. Bride. I was in the boat.
Senator Smith. You were in the boat ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It fell, the bottom side upward ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliat became of you ?
Mr. Bride. I was inside the boat.
Senator Smith. You were under the boat ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain in the boat ?
Mr. Bride. I could not tell vou.
Senator Smith. About how long ?
Mr. Bride. It seemed a lifetime to me, really.
Senator Smith. I imderstand, but I would like to know, if possible,
if at any time you got on top of the boat ?
Mr. Bride. I got on top of the boat eventually.
Senator Smith. Eventually ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Before anyone else got on top of it f
ilr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was on top of the boat when you got on ?
yir. Bride. There was a big crowd on top when I got on. I had
to get away from imder the bottom.
Senator Smith. You remained under the boat how long?
Mr. Bride. I should say about three-quarters of an hour, or a half.
Senator Smith. Was there breathing space under the boat when it
was turned over in that way ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So that you got away from it as quickly as you
could ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
162 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. You got out free from it, or did you cling to it,
pullingyourself up to the side ?
Mr. Bride. I freed myself from it and cleared out of it.
Senator Smith. How did you get back to it, then ?
Mr. Bride. Swam back, eventually.
Senator Smith. Wliicli side of the boat was that on, port or star-
board ?
Mr. Bride. On the port side of the Titanic?
Senator Smith. Did you hear the second officer yesterday say that
that boat came around from the starboard to the port side?
Mr. Bride. I was not here yesterday.
Senator Smith. You can not say as to that?
Mr. Bride. It went straight over the port side, sh*.
Senator Smith. It went straight over the port side ?
Mr. Bride. It was on the port side of the forward funnel. We
pushed it on the port side of the boat deck, and it went over the port
side of tlie Titanic.
Senator Smith. Did it at any time get on the starboard side ?
Mr. Bride. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. You say there were a number of people on the
boat, on the bottom of the boat that was bottom-up when you got
there ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of them ?
Mr. Bride. I heard afterwards that the senior operator was on
board.
Senator Smith. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips.
Senator Smith. Was on the boat ?
Mr. Bride. Yes; I heard so afterwards.
Senator Smith. He did not survive, however ?
Mr. Bride. He did not survive.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he died going from the
Titanic to the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Bride. He died on the way; yes. He died on board the
upturned boat.
Senator Smith. What became of his body ?
Mr. Bride. As far as I know, it was taken on board the Carpathia
and buried from the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Buried at sea ?
. Mr. Bride. Buried from the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Did any one else die on that boat between the
wreck and the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Bride. There was a man lying aft that they said was dead
when tliey took liim onto the ship's boat.
Senator Smith. What did they do with his body?
Mr. Bride. He was taken on board the Carpafhiaj as far as I know.
Senator Smith. They took his body to the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many people were on that boat ?
Mr. Bride. It was estimatea between 30 and 40.
Senator Smith. Were there any women on the boat ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
{ < ^ . ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 163
Senator Smith. How many people were in the boat or on the boat
when it fell from the upper deck on to the lower deck ?
Mr. Bride. There was not anybody in it. It was pushed over
intentionally.
Senator Smitii. Was it fastened to the boat davits ?
Mr. B^iDE. No, sir; it was resting on a proper bed there for it.
Senator Smith. How did you get in it ?
Mr. Bride. When it was pushed over on to the A deck, we all
^c^aInbled down on to A deck again.
Senator Smith. You all scrambled in ?■
Mr. Bride. We did not scramble in. We scrambled down on to
A deck and were going to launch it properly.
Senator Smith. Then what happened ?
Mr. Bride. It was washed overboard before we had time to
launch it.
Senator Smith. The boat was washed over?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You then went down with it ?
Mr. Bride. I happened to be nearest it and I grabbed it.
Senator Smith. You grabbed it and went down with it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone else grab it ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You went down with it alone ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It fell in such shape that you were under it!
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say there were no women on that boat?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. VlTien it reached the Carpathia or at any other
time?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And there were about 35 or 40 people all together ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the people that were on that
l>oat besides Mr. Phillips and yourself ?
Mr. Bride. There was an officer, I believe, on the boat.
Senator Smith. An officer ?
Mr. Bride. And there was a passenger; I could not see whether he
was first, second, or third.
Senator Smith. What kind of a looking man i
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you learned wlio it was ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I heard him say at the time he was a passenger.
Senator Smith. Was it Col. Gracie?
Mr. Bride. I could not say. He merely said he was a passenger.
Senator Smith. Where did he get on?^
Mr. Bride. I could not sav. I was the last man thev invited on
b )ard.
Senator Smith. Were there others struggling to get on?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many?
Mr. Bride. Dozeng,
Senator Smith. Dozens. In the water?
164 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. With life preservers on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was this one man the only passenger?
Mr. Bride. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Did anyone say to you that anyone else was a
passenger ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; we did not have much to say to each other.
Senator Smith. You did not talk to one another?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the other occupants of that
boat were officers or seamen or stewards or employees?
Mr. Bride. I should judge they were all employees. They were all
part of the boat's crews.
Senator Smith. They were all in the water?
Mr. Bride. They had all been in the water some time or other.
Senator Smith. Thoy had been in the water at some time when they
got onto the upturned boat?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Isfmay at any time that night ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you last see the captain? When he told
you to take care of yourself ?
Mr. Bride. Tlie last I saw of the captain he went overboard from
the bridge, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Titanic sink?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the captain was at that time on the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. No, a^ir.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by overboard ?
Mr. Bride. He jumped overboard from the bridge. He iumped
overboard from the bridge when we were launching the collapsible
Ifeboat.
Senator Smith. I should judge from what you have said that tlii>
was about three or four minutes before the boat sank.
Mr. Bride. Yes. It would be just about five minutes before the
boat sank.
Senator Smith. About five minutes?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the captain had a life
belt on?
Mr. Bride. He had not when I last saw him.
Senator Smith. He had not ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the bridge go under water at about the same
time ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. The whole of the ship was practically under
water to the forward funnel, and when I saw her go down tne stern
came out of the water and she slid down fore and aft.
Senator Smith. The captain at no time went over until the vessel
sank ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. He went with the vessel ?
(( ^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 165
Mr. Bride. Practically speaking; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I would like to ask you, before I forget it, whether
as this vessel went down there was much suction there ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. There was not?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. The fact that so few of the passengers and crew
were picked up bv the Carpathia with life preservers on would seem
to inaicate that tney were sucked under these waves or this water as
the ship disappeared. What is your judgment about that?
Mr. Bride. I estimate I was within 150 feet of the Titanic; I was
swimming when she went down, and I felt practically no suction at all.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, I appreciate the fact that you are not
well. I want to thank you very much for your uncomplaining, kindly
attitude. I will not press you any further to-day, out I wish you
would hold yourself subject to the call of the committee and be ready
to respond ff we should want you again.
May I have this understanding, Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Marconi. All right.
Senator Smith. We will take a recess until 3 o'clock.
At 1.45 o'clock p.m. the committee took a recess until 3 o'clock p. m.
afternoon session.
At the expiration of the recess the hearing was resumed.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Bride, the wireless operator of the Titanic,
present ?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where has he gone ?
Mr. Marconi. He has gone to some house uptown, where he is going
to be looked after, sir.
Senator Smith. Has he gone to some hospital ?
Mr. Sammis. No, Senator. He has gone to the house of some rela-
tive of his. I heard you tell him that you were not going to question
him anj' more to-day, so I sent him along.
Senator Smith. I should like to ask him a few additional questions
this afternoon, but it will be impossible if he is not here.
Mr. Sammis. I am sorry. Senator. We understood, from what you
said, that j'ou had finished with him for to-day.
Senator Smith. In view of his ph^'sical condition, I think his fur-
ther examination may be postponed.
Mr. Sammis. You remember saying, Senator, that you would not
question him any more to-day ?
Senator Smith. Yes ; I do not hold you responsible at all for his not
coining here now.
Mr. Marconi. We thought you had finished with him for to-day.
Senator Smith. That is all right. There is no responsibility on you
at all. I merely thought that if he was here I should like to ask him a
question. The other operator is here ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir; and he will remain here if you wish him.
Senator Smith. Is the second officer of the Titanic here ?
Mr. BuRLiNOHAM. He is not in the room, Senator. He is out
around the hotel, somewhere, sir. You mean Mr. Lightoller ?
40475— FT 2—12 4
166 TITANIC DISASTEIU
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. BuRUNOHAM. Mr. LightoUer has gone out, we find, but he will
be back soon.
Senator Smith. I wanted to ask Mr. LightoUer if the ship's log was
saved.
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. Any of the other officers can tell you just as well
about that. Mr. Pitman is here, for instance.
Senator Smith. Very well.
Mr. Pitman, I will swear you as a witness, for a moment, just for the
sake of completing our record.
TESTXMOFSr OF HEEBEBT JOES PITMAIT.
Mr. Pitman was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. State your full name, please.
Mr. Pitman. Herbert John Pitman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Pitman. England.
Senator Smith. At what place ?
Mr. Pitman. Somerset.
Senator Smith. Somerset, England ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How old are you?
Mr. Pftman. Thirty-four.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Pitman. Mariner.
Senator Smith. How long have you been employed as a mariner ?
Mr. Pitman. Sixteen years.
Senator Smith. In what capacities ?
Mr. Pitman. From apprentice to an officer.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether you are sufficiently
advised, of your own knowledge, to say whether the ship's log was
preserved or taken from the Titanic?
Mr. Pitman. Not to my knowledge; I did not go into the chart
room, so I do not know.
wSenator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. LightoUer, the second
officer, Mr. Boxhall, the fourth officer, or Mr. Lowe, the fifth officer,
took possession of the ship 's log ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not say, sir.
Senator Smith. I will make a brief announcement for the official
reporter and for the press: That, after conference w4th my colleagues
of the committee, we have concluded to subpoena Mr. J. Bruce Ismav,
Mr. P. A. S. Franklin, Mr. Harold Bride, Mr. 11. T. Cottam, Mr. C. L.
LightoUer, second officer; Mr. H. J. Pitman, third officer; Mr. J. G.
Boxhall, fourth officer; ilr. H. G. Lowe, fifth officer; and others:
they being the only surviving officers of the Titanic; also others of
the crew.
We have also subpoenaed W. Perkins, E. Archer, W. H. Taylor,
W. Brice, E. Bully, S. Heming, F. O. Evans, T. Jones, Frank Osman,
G. Moore, A. Cunningham, A. Oliver, F. Fleet, G. A. Hogg, A. Craw-
ford, W. Burke, E. W. Lelton, F. Clench, Fred W. Ray, G. Crow, C.
Andrews, J. Widgery, H. Etches, G. W. Rowe, John Collins, A. J.
Bright, G. Syraons, J. Hardy, and Albert Haines, of the ship's crew.
i i . . y 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 167
AW of these witnesses have been summoned to appear in Washington
on Monday morning at 10 o'clock, and at that time this investigation
will be resumed and no further testimony will be taken at this hearing.
I have been asked to make a public statement. Before doing so I
request that no representative of the press or other person shafl ask
any question of me before beginning or during my statement or after
I have finished. What I say I desire reportea acciu'ately, and I
wish the pubUc to know that this statement is the only official utter-
ance I shall make before resuming our inquiry at Washington:
The object of this committee m coming to New York coincident
with the arrival of the Carpathda was prompted by the desire to avail
ourselves of first-hand information from the active participants in this
sad affair. Our course has been 'guided solely by this purpose — to
obtain accurate information without delay.
Information had been received that some of the officers of the
Tiiantic, and the managing director of the White Star Line, who are
British subjects, residing in England, desired and intended to return
to their homes inmiediately upon arrival at this port. We concluded
that it would be most unfortunate if we were deprived of their testi-
mony for any indefinite period, and felt that their removal beyond
the jurisdiction of our authority might complicate, and possibly de-
feat, our purpose.
We went durectly to the Carpathia upon her arrival, were received
courteously by the captain and officers of the ship, and were accorded
a prompt interview with the managing director and vice president of
the White Star Line.
We requested the attendance of these officers, the other surviving
officers, and that the crew might be held subject to our orders. We
satisfied ourselves that the promises of Mr. tsmay and Mr. Franklin
could be relied upon, felt assured of their presence at the hearing
Friday morning, and did not feel called upon to use more drastic
means to accomplish that result.
Mr. Ismay intended to return to England forthwith, but at our re-
Quest has remained here, as have the other officers and members of
tne crew.
It was found necessary to take the testimony of Capt. Rostron, of
the Carpathia, immediately, in order that ho might not be further in-
convenienced in his departure with his ship, destined for the Mediter-
ranean, after his most creditable conduct in a most trying emergency,
worthy of the highest praise. We felt that it would not be an evidence
of our appreciation orchis gallantry, thoughtfulness, and efficiency to
detain him and his ship and passengers longer after he had brought
the survivors of the Titanic voluntarily to this port.
The survivors of the Titanic and their friends throughout the world
are under a debt of gratitude to Capt. Rostron which can never be
repaid. His promptness in responding to the call of distress resulted
in a large savmg of life which, but for him, would have been impos-
sible; and, voicmg the sentiments of my countrymen, I thank him in
their name and in the name of the Government of the United States
for his unselfish and noble contribution to the cause of humanity.
We examined the second officer of the Titanic, Mr. Lightoller,
because he was in command during the hours immediately preceding
the collision, and we thought it wise to take his testimony imme-
diatelv.
(( ff
168 TXTANIO DISASTBB.
Mr. Bride, the* wireless telegrapher on the Titanic, who survives,
had been injured and was unable to be conveniently moved from New
York, And, as the testimony of the wireless operator of the Oarpathia
was so intimately related to the testimony of the surviving operator
of the Titanic, we concluded to take the testimony of both forthwith;
and in order that we might, beyond perad venture, have the statement
of Mr. Ismay officially upon our records, we decided to take his testi-
mony immediately.
At the completion of the examination all the witnesses were notified
of the fact that we had not finished with them, and were requested to
remain subject to the orders of the committee.
After conference with my associates, we concluded to exercise our
authority and formally subpcena all of the surviving officers of the
Titonir, including those just mentioned and others not sworn, together
with about 30 members of the ship's crew. This has been done, and
further testimony for the present will be taken at Washington, where
all the members of the subcommittee can be present.
In summoning the surviving passengers, many of whom were weak
and greatly distressed, some quite ill and others injured, we have
thought it wise to proceed with care and consideration for their phy-
sical and mental condition. Many of them have already been sub-
poBnaed, but returns have not yet been made, and I am unable to give
the names of those subpoenaed to the press to-day.
In closing this statement I desire to acknowledge our debt of grati-
tude to the representatives of the press for their marked consideration
and courtesy in this most trying situation, and wish to assure them
that everything that has transpired of public interest has been
entirely in their presence, and that this course will be pursued, so far
as I am concerned, in the future hearings before the conmiittee.
Whereupon, at 3.30 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned, to
meet in Washington at 10.30 o clock a. m., Monday, April 22, 1912.
/
X
"ill nil
\
1
^ ^ HEARING
BBFORB ▲
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART III
Printed for the lue of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINQTOK
GOVEBNMBNT FBOTriKQ OFFIOB
mi
SUBCOMMITTEE OP THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unitbd States Sbkatb.
WILLIAM ALDEK SMITH, Michig»ii, Chairman.
OEORQE C. PERKINS, Califomia. F. M. SIMMONS, North CaroUna.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Ongon* FRANCIS G. NEWLANDS, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKlNSTBT, Clerk.
II
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Pftfl0«
Pianklin, PhUlip A. S 169
Boxhall, Joseph G 209
m
'* TITANIC'' DISASTER,
KONDAY, APRIL 22, 1912.
SuBCOBOflTTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON
Commerce, United States Senate,
Washington, D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjourn-
ment.
Present : Senators William Alden Smith (chairman) , Perkins, Bur-
ton, Bourne, Simmons, Newlands, and Fletcher.
Senator Smith. For my associates and myself I desire to make an
announcement.
The inquiry we are making is in obedience to a direction by the
Senate, and is for the purpose of ascertaining certain important facts
connected with the unfortunate loss of the Titanic, We are not at
all concerned about the convenience of visitors upon the hearing.
We are concerned primarily in obtaining the truth, and I desire eacSi
person here to understand that they are here solely by the courtesy
of the committee; that the incjuiry is not for their entertainment, and
that any expressions of any kind or character will not be permitted.
Any violation of this injunction will force the committee to con-
duct its inquiries in such a manner as to avoid such a situation.
In view of the importance of the investigation, I bespeak for the
witnesses that courtesy and kindness that is their proper due.
As to whether these nearings can be conducted in this general, open
session, we are not fully determined; but having no disposition to
cany tnem on secretly, with the desire that each step shall be known
by tne public, this course has been adopted this morning, as it was
pursued in New York.
TESTIMOVT OF MB. P. A. S. FBANKUIT.
Mr. Franklin was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your fuU name ?
Mr. Franklin. Phillip A. S. Franklin.
Senator Smith. And where do you reside ?
Mr. Franklin. I reside in New York.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Franklin. I am the vice president in the United States of the
International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Franklin. Forty-one years of age.
Senator Smith. What composes the International Mercantile
Marine Co. ?
Mr. Franklin. In a general way, the International Mercantile
Marine Co., through its various ramifications, owns the White Star
169
170 TITANIC DISASTER.
Line, the American Line, the Red Star Line, the Atlantic Transport
Line, and the National Line, and the majority of the stock of the
Leyland Line.
Senator Smith. What is the capitalization of your company ?
Mr. Franklin. The capitalization, in round numbers, is
$100,000,000 between the preferred and common shares; $52,000,000
of 4i per cent bonds; about $19,000,000 of 5 per cent bonds, and some
underlying bonds, amounting to about $7,000,000.
Senator Smith. What is tne business of the company ?
Mr. Franklin. The business of the company is that they own
steamers which are operating in various trans-Atlantic and trans-
oceanic trades, carrying freight and passengers.
Senator Smith. Does the International Mercantile Marine own the
White Star Line or control it ?
Mr. Franklin. The International Mercantile Marine Co. owns or
controls the International Navigation Co. (Ltd.) of England,
which company owns the shares of tne Oceanic Steam Navigation Co.,
which company owns the White Star steamers.
Senator Smith. How many ships are there in the White Star Line,
so-called ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not tell you that, but I have a record here
that could give vou the information. We will produce an annual
report which will show that. We can come back to that, Senator.
It will have to be worked out of our report.
Senator Smith. I will pass, for the moment, that inquiry, and ask
if you can give us a detailed statement of the owners, officers, and
directors of these various companies composing the International
Mercantile Marine Co. ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not do that in detail without looking it
up for you, because a great many of these companies are located
aoroad; but I can give you the directors of the International Mer-
cantile Marine Co.
Senator Smith. Can jou do so now ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
These are the directors: C. A. Griscom^ E. C. Grenfell, John I.
Waterbury, the Right Honorable Lord Pirrie, George W. Perkins,
Charles Steel, J. Bruce Ismay, Percy Chubb, E. J. Berwind, Harold A.
Sanderson, P. A. B. Widener, Charles F. Torrey, J. P. Morgan, jr.
Senator S»fiTH. Who are the officers of that company ?
Mr. Franklin. The officers are: President, J. Bruce Ismay; vice
presidents, E. C. Grenfell, Harold A. Sanderson, and P. A. S. Franklin.
Senator Smith. Where do the officers of the company reside t
Mr. Franklin. Mr. Ismav, the president, resides m Liverpool;
Mr. Grenfell resides in London; Mr. Sanderson resides in Liverpool;
Mr. Franklin resides in New York.
Senator Smith. Do you hold any position in the International
Mercantile Marine Co. ?
Mr. Franklin. I hold the position of vice president, in America,
of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator SMrrn. And, as such officer, have you jurisdiction over the
aflFairs of that company in America ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Does any other person share this responsibility
with you here ?
ti .-*-.. .^^ ff
TITANIC DI8A8TEB. 171
Mr. Frankun. Not directly. Of course, we have certain members
of the board of directors here, who have meetings here, and we have a
finance committee who meet here, but as far as the management of
the company in its business is concerned I have nobody except the
v^ftiious assistants that we have all the way through.
Senator Smith. Subordinate to you ?
Mr. Frankun. Subordinate to me.
Senator Smith. Will you state to the committee what jurisdiction
and authority you have, if any, over the movement and direction of
the ships of your company ?
Mr. Franklin. We have no authority or jurisdiction over the
moYement or direction of the ships of our company after they have
left the dock of any port in the United States or Canada.
If we should at any time have an^ instructions regarding the actual
policy of the ship, we would receive those from the home office in
England, and that would be given to the commander of the steamer
in the dock here.
We have nothing to do with the ships in the way of giving the com-
mander instructions regarding the navigation, or anytliing of that
kind, of the ship, except what is passed to us by the owners of the
ships. We are simply agents.
benator Smith. How long have you been an officer of this company t
Mr. Frakki-in. Since 1892, I think it is.
Senator Smith^ Have you ever filled any other position than the
one you now occupy with your company ?
Mr. FRANKL.IN. -When tne company was first formed, I was in
charge of the business of the Atlantic Transport Line, which is a sub-
sidiary of the International Mercantile Marine Co., but I was not then
an officer, immediately, of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
Shortly after its formation, however — I should say six or eight
moDtb^ — I was made a vice president of the International Mercantile
Maiine Co.
Senator Smith. Are you a navigator by profession ?
Mr. Franklin. Not at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever had any experience in that regard!
Mr. Franklin. Not the sUgh test.
S^iator Smith. Do you know Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Franklin. I do, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you known him ?
Mr. Franklin. I have known Mr. Ismay, I should say, since about
1895 or 1897; possibly a little earlier.
Senator Smith. Have you had occasion to confer with him regard*
ine the affairs of your company ?
Mr. Franklin. Constantly since 1902.
Senator Smith. Did these conferences take place in the United
States ?
Mr. Franki.in. Some conferences took place in the United States
and some conferences in Liverpool.
Senator Smith. Did you know Capt. Smith, of the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. I did.
Senator Smith. How long had you known him ?
Mr. Franklin. I had known him ever since I have been connected
with the International Mercantile Marine Co.; and I knew liim before
172 TITANIC DISABTEB.
that, because I had crossed on one or two steamers under his com-
mand along about 1898 to 1900. Then, however, I was not in any
way officiaUy connected with the company.
oenator Smith. Will you tell the committee what ships of your
company were commanded by the late captain of the Tiianicf
Mr. Franklin. He commanded the Majestic, the Adriatic, the
Olympic, and the Titanic, That I am sure of. I am not sure of the
steamers he may have commanded between the Majestic and the
Titanic.
Senator Smith. Is the Baltic one of your ships ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Smith. He conunanded the Baltic, did he not ?
Mr. Franklin. I think he did, but I would not say positively. I
think he did.
Senator Smith. When did you last see him ?
Mr. Franklin. I last saw Capt. Smith when he was here on the
Olympic in February.
Senator Smith. In February of this year ?
Mr. Franklin. Of this year; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen or heard from him since that time,
directly?
Mr. Franklin. I have never seen nor heard from him directly; no,
sir - since that time.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, did the subordinate officers of
your company attempt to and succeed in obtaining any conmiunica-
tion from him on his last voyage from Southampton to New York or
to the point of this disaster ?
Mr. Franklin. We never had the slightest communication of any
kind from the captain of the Titanic on the last voyage or from the
time he left Belfast.
Senator Smith. From the time he left Belfast after the trial trip ?
Mr. Franklin. We had no word of the trial trip or anything regard-
ing the trial trip.
Senator Smith. You know nothing directly of the test at Belfast
Loi^h?
^C. Franklin. No.
Senator Smith. And you have had no communication and, so far
as you know, your subordinates have had no communication with him
after he left Belfast with the Titanic,
Mr. Franklin. No; that is quite right. We did not have.
I want to make it perfectly clear. We naturally received cables
from Southampton; we received a cable when the ship left Belfast;
we received a cable when the ship arrived at Southampton. Those
cables, however, were not sent by the captain of the steamer; they
were sent bv the officers.
Senator Smith. By what officer ?
Mr. Franklin. By the Southampton office; by the agent, in other
words, in Southampton.
Senator Smith. Advising you of the departure of the Titanicf
Mr. Franklin. No; the Southampton cable advised us of the ar-
rival of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. From Belfast Lough ?
i t — .— . ^-•^ f 9
TITANIO DIBABTEB. 173
Mr. Franklin. From Belfast Lough. That was simply a routine
matter.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, did you or did any of your
subordinates in this country receive any communication from any
officer of the Titanic after she left Southampton %
Mr. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you or any of your subordiates receive any
communication from Mr. Ismay after or immediately preceding the
depairture of the Titanic from Southampton ?
Mr. Franklin. I sent to Mr. Ismay as the steamer was running
between Southampton and Queenstown simply a bon voyage message:
'^Successful future to the Titanic and successful voyage a£o to your-
self," or something to that effect.
Senator SMrrn. Have you a copy of that message ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think 1 have a copy of it with me. I can
have it sent over to you, Senator.
Senator Smith. I wish you would do so.
Mr. Franlkin. Will you have a record made of everything you
want from us?
Senator Smith. Yes.
ilr. Franklin. And \ can give you a copy of Mr. Ismay's reply.
Senator Smith. So far as you can now recollect, what did he say ?
Mr. Franklin. Simply: ''Much appreciate your message," or
something to that enect.
Senator Smith. Was this a wireless or a cable message ?
Mr. Franklin. It was sent bjr cable.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any communication from any
officer, director, passenger or member of the crew of the Titanic, by
wireless, after the Titanic left Southampton and up to the time she
sank in the sea ?
Mr. Franklin. Not a word or communication of any kind or
description except this: We had the regular wire that comes through
the regular channel from Cape Race or through Cape Race, that ad-
vised us that on Sunday morning the Titanic was 550 miles southeast
of Cape Race. That is a matter that comes through the press also.
Senator Smith. Was that an official communication ?
Mr. Franklin. It is semiofficial. It is sent to the press also. We
receive an advice, and the press gets it for the newspapers and for
the records.
Senator Smith. But you have no exclusive control over that kind
of a communication?
Mr. Franklin. No; we do not get an exclusive communication.
To the best of my knowledge that was telephoned to me by one of
our people on Sunday morning simply as a matter of information.
Senator Smith. Sunday morning, preceding the collision ?
Mr. Franklin. Sunday morning preceding the collision.
Senator Smith. That was the only attempt at communication witli
that ship, and so far as you know, the only attempt by its officers,
passengers or crew, from the time they left Southampton until the
accident occurred ?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. I show you a telegram whicli I will read in order
that the record may contain it. It is dated New York, N. Y., April
174 TITANIC MSABTER.
15, 1912. It is addressed to ^*J. A. Hughes, Huntington, W. Va/'
It reads as follows :
Titanic proceeding to Halifax. Passengers will probably land there Wedneeday;
all Hafe.
White Star Line.
I ask you whether you know anything about the sending of that
message, or by whom it was authorized, or from whom it emanated ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not, su\ And since this was mentioned at the
meeting in New York on Saturday, we have had our entire passenger
staff in No. 9 Broadway office ask, and we can not find out who sent
that message. Now, what we would appreciate your committee
doing is to nave the telegraph company deliver to you the message
received from the White Star Line, and let us see where they got it
and when they got it, and what station it was delivered to. I think
it is only fair for us to explain, in connection with that, that we have
a great many people naturally employed in the passenger department
of our No. 9 Broadway office. The office was very crowded on
Monday morning, and a good many of the juniors were answering
communications, to the best of their ability, by telephone, and other-
wise, and it might be, possibly, that that telegram was sent by one of
these juniors, from something he had gotten, either from the news-
papers or something of that kmd, but so far as the White Star Line or
its officials were concerned, the officials did not authorize anything of
that kind; nothing of that kind was authorized, and we were very
guarded in advising everybody that the only authentic information
we were receiving about the horrible disaster was what we were
getting — and we had gotten one message — through Capt. Haddock, of
the Olympic.
Senator Smith. At the time that telegram was sent did you know
the actual condition of the Titanic f
Mr. Franklin. What is the time of that telegram? I think we
ought to fix that question of time. It is headed 8.27 p. m. At 8.27
p. m. on Monday 1 knew that the Titanic sank at 2.20 a. m.
Senator Smith. Monday morning ?
Mr. Franklin. Monday morning.
Senator Smith. When did you f&st get that information, and from
whom?
Mr. Franklin. That date ought to be fixed.
Mr. Bltilinoham. That may be the date of the receipt.
Mr. Franklin. I am taking that hour. In replying to the question
I am using that hour. Would you like me to give you a statement,
to the best of my ability, of how we heard and when we heard and what
we did ?
Senator Smith. I would, from the first. If vou have any memo-
randa or any of the telegrams I wish you would have them marked
for identification and filed witli the committee.
Mr. Franklin. I would like to put them right in the record.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Franklin. At about 2 minutes of 2 on Monday morning I was
aroused by the teleiJione and bells ringing. I went to the telephone,
and a reporter — I could not tell from what paper — said that they had
just heard that the Titanic was sinking, and that she had sent out a call
for assistance. I asked them how tliey had gotten this message, and
they told me that they had received it through the steamship Vir-
l< ff
TITANIC DI6ASTEK. 175
ginian and from Montreal. I immediately called up our dock and
asked them if they had heard anything at all. They told me that
several reporters had called them up.
Senator Smith. Where were you at this time ?
Mr. Franklin. At my own house, No. 41 East Sixty-first Street.
They told me that the reporters had been trying to give them some
information about the Titanic, I said, "Have you heard anytliing
authentic about the Titanic? ^^ He told me "No.'* I then called up
the Associated Press, the office of the Associated Press; they reported
to me practically about what the reporter had told me. I then asked
them whether tliey could not hold the matter and not rive out such
an alarming report until they could see whether it could oe confirmed.
They said, '* No; it has gone out.** I then called up Montreal on the
long-distance telephone. I got our representative on the telephone in
Montreal and asked him if he could not get the Allan Line aflice and
find out if tliis could be confirmed, and wTiat they had, and call me on
the telephone immediately. I then called up about four or five of our
own people and told them I had this information. I wanted to get in
touch with them and have them stand by. I got Mr. Ridgway, the
head of our steamsliip department, who lived in Brooklyn, and I
asked him to at once go out and send a Marconigram to the captain
of the Olympic. I did not want to alarm the captain of the Olympic.
So all I asked in that telegram was, " Can you get the position of the
Titanic f Wire us immediately her position." I can read you that
tel^ram. I then asked all of our important people to immediately
report at the office. When we got to the office the first tiling that I
found there was this memorandum. [Reading from memorandum:]
Titanic. Received from Associated Press from Cape Race 3.05 a. m. Monday^
April 15. 10.25 p. m. E. S. T., Titanic called C. Q. D.; reported having struck ice-
beig and required immediate assistance. Half an hour afterwards, reported that
they were sinking by the head. Women were being put off in boats and weather
calm and clear. Grave position as 41.46 north, 50.14 west. Stop this station. Noti-
fied Allan liner Vvrginianf who immediately advised he was proceeding toward
Kene of disaster. Stop. Virginian at midnight stated was about 170 miles distant
from Titanic and expected reach there about 10 a. m. Olympic^ at 4.24 a. m. G. M. T.
in latitude 40.32 north, longitude 61.18 west, was in direct communication with Titanic
and is now making all haste toward her. Baltic, at 1.15 a. m. E. S. T. reported him*
self as about 200 miles east of Titanic, and was also making toward her. Last signals
from Titanic were heard by Virginian at 12.25 a. m. E. S. T. He reported them
blurred and ending abruptly.
Then we worked out the positions. In the first place, I received
before leaving the house a reply from Montreal, saying that the Allan
line unfortunately confirmea the record. We worked out the
positions then to tne best of our ability, and the Titantic we found
1»080 miles from New York, about 600 miles from Halifax; the
Olympic we found, in our opinion, to be about 364 miles from the
T^nie, and the Baltic we thought could reach her at 4 p. m. I do
not know how far the Baltic was away.
Senator Smith. How did you fina the location of these various
ships ?
ilr. FRANiojrN. We worked out the Olympic roughly in our own
minds.
Senator Smith. On a scale ?
Mr. Franklin. We had the chart.
Senator Smith. And from the chart you worked them out ? But
did any of these ships report their exact location ?
176 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. Fbanklin. We had no communication at that time from any
ship or anybody which in our opinion was authentic. We had numer-
ous rumors from all sources.
Senator Smith. Did they pretend to give you their location ?
Mr. Franklin. Thev did not. I will reaa you the first message
sent to the Olympic, tne one I referred to a few minutes ago. This
was sent at 3 a. m. :
Make every effort to communicate Titanic and advise position and time. Reply to
Ismay, New York.
Senator Smith. Please say to whom that was addressed.
Mr. Franklin. To Haddock, Olympic.
Senator Smith. Please give the date.
Mr. Franklin. April 15, 3 a. m.
Senator Smith. -Aiid give the hour in each case. Now. in order
that we may be sure the committee understands that, please read
that again.
Mr. Franklin. This was our first endeavor to communicate with
any of our steamers, and the first attempt that we know, either one
way or the other. This was our telegram to Capt. Haddock, of the
Olympic, sent at 3 a. m. on April 15, as follows:
Make every endeavor to communicate Titanic and advise position and time. Reply
to Ismay, New York.
The telegram was sent from Brooklyn hj Mr. F. W. Ridgway. I
telephoned it to him and asked him to go right out and send it.
Senator wSmith. Proceed.
Senator Fletcher. Where was Capt. Haddock — where was the
Olympicf
Mr. Franklin. The Olympic had sailed from New York Saturday
afternoon at 3 o'clock, bound east.
Senator Smith. What was the position of the boat ?
Mr. Franklin. I can only jrive you our estimate of the position
which, at 3 o'clock, was 320 mues east of Sandy Hook and about 360
miles, in our estimate, from the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
Mr. Franklin. All during the morning — ^from that time on
Senator Smith. Monday morning ?
Mr. Franklin. Monday morning. We are endeavoring to com-
munocate or get some information from Montreal, from Halifax, from
the various papers, and we wired to the commander of the Olympic:
Keep ua fully posted regarding Titanic^ ^
That was 6.05 a. m. We had received no reply from him at all.
Then we got a telegram from the Oh/mpic:
Since midnight, when her position was 41.46 north, 50.14 west, have been unable to
communicate. We are now 310 miles from her, 9 a. m., under full power. Will
inform you at once if hear anything.
COMMANDBR.
Senator Smith. Did you understand from that that they were
headed toward the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. I understand that they were beaded toward the
Titanic, without any question. That was 9. a. m.
Senator Smith. Monday ?
Mr. Franklin. Monday, 310 miles from the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
it ...*». «^^ 99
TITANIG DISASTBB, 177
Mr. Franklin. We followed that with a telegram, as follows :
Obh you ascertain damage Titanief
Senator Smffh. What hour was that ?
Mr. Franklin. That is not the original of that. There is no hour
on that, but that was sent in the morning.
Senator Smith. Sent by whom ?
Mr. Franklin. That was sent by me.
^ Senator Smith. Had you no information at that time regarding the
sinking of the Titanic ?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely none; most emphatically. I have read
you off the first telegram from Haddock. Now, this is the second tele-
gram.
Senator Smith. Give the date and hour.
Mr. Franklin. April 15. We do not know what hour this was
received, but it was after noon. It was between 12 and 1 o'clock, or
around 1 o'clock. That could probably be traced — exactly when tnat
was delivered to us.
Pariiian reports Carpathia in attendance and picked up 20 boats of paasengezB and
BaJHe retuining to give aaaifitance. Position not given.
Senator Smith. Position of BaMc not given ?
Mr. Franklin. Position of Baltic not given. This message was
received along about 1 o'clock.
Senator SMrrn. Signed by whom ?
Mr. Franklin. Signed by Haddock.
Senator Smith. AD right, proceed.
Mr. Franklin. We repliea to that as follows:
Afro. 15» 1912.
Haddock, Olympic:
Thanks your message. We have received nothing from Titanic^ but rumored here
that she proceeding slowly Halifax, but we can not confirm this. We expect Vvrgirwrn
alongside Titanic; try and communicate her.
Senator Smith. Who signed that ?
Mr. Franklin. I did.
Senator Smith. What hour was that ?
Mr. Franklin. That was in reply to the other message, immedi-
ately after we got it. It must have been about 2 o'clock
Senator Smith. Capt. Haddock's message?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. About 2 o'clock, I would say.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee upon what rumor you based
that statement.
Mr. Franklin. We based that statement on rumors that we were
having from all sources. The press and telegrams from Montreal;
but nothing we could put our hands on as being authentic at any time.
Senator Smith. Had you not received anything from the Carpathia
at that time ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; we had not heard of the Carpathia up to
that time at all — except this Haddock telegram.
Senator Smith. Let us see what you based that rumor on ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not know that I could tell exactly on what I
based that. I mi^t by going through those telegrams.
Senator Smith. I wisn you would go through them and tell us what
you based that on.
Mr. Franklin. We had it from all sources — ^from the newspapers
particularly.
178 TITANIC DIBASTEB.
Senator Smith. And it was rumor merely ?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely. We announced it to everybody that
these were rumors, but we could not confirm them, and that we had
nothing authentic but one message from Capt. Haddock.
Senator Smith. Did you confer wth Mr. Marconi during the early
morning of Monday, personally ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; I never conferred with Mr. Marconi.
Senator Smith. Do you know w4iether any messages went from the
Marconi ofSce or from the White Star office to the CarpcUhia enjoining
secrecy until they were in communication with you ?
Mr. Franklin. We know absolutely nothing about such a commu-
nication; had nothing at all to do with it, if it was sent.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether such a communication was
sent ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. Have you ever conferrea with Mr. Marconi about it ?
Mr. Franklin. I never have mentioned it
Senator Smith. Or Mr. Sammis ?
Mr. Franklin. No.
Senator Smith. Or the operator of the Carpathiat
Mr. Franklin. No; I never talked to either one of the two gen-
tlemen in my life.
Senator Smith. Neither with the captain nor the operator -nor an
officer of any other ship ?
Mr. Franklin. Never. Our whole effort — I would like to say
this — was to get the Carpaihia to give to us the names of the pas-
sengers, of the people aboard the Uarpaihia. That is the only thing
we wanted, ana we were pressing for that all the time.
Senator Smith. That is wherever she was bound, and under what-
ever circumstances ?
Mr. Franklin. We tried to get it through the Olympic. We told
the Olympic to stand by her and pass it along to us.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
Mr. Franklin. I had better get back to the cables, had I not?
This message that I have just read is as follows:
April 15, 1912.
Haddock, Olympic:
Thanks, your message. We have received nothing from Titanic^ but rumored that
she proceeding slowly Halifax, but we can not confirm this. We expect Virgmian
alongside Titanic. Try and communicate her.
Senator Smith. Are you giving the dates and hours ?
Mr. Franklin. I have not the dates on this, but on the next one I
have. The next is 2.40, which shows it must have been before 2.40.
Senator Smith. And what is the signature ?
Mr. Franklin. This is signed ^* Franklin." Now, our next tele-
gram was to Haddock.
Mr. BuBLiNGHAM. Give the hour.
Senator Smith. Give the hour in each case and who signs it,
whether by name or cipher or initial.
Mr. Franklin. I will give them in the order they are here.
April 15, 1912.— 2.40 p. m.
Haddock, Olympic:
Endeavor ascertain where Ismay is. Advise me and convey him deepest sympathy
from us all.
Fbamklik.
i< ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTKK. 179
Senator Smith. What hour is that ?
Mr. Franklin. 2.40 in the afternoon.
Senator Smith. And addressed to whom ?
Mr. Franklin. Capt. Haddock.
Senator Smith. And signed by whom ?
Mr. Franklin. Signed oy'* Franklin."
Senator Smith. Do not forget to give the date, the hour, the name,
and the signature in each case.
Mr. Burlingham. I suggestyou start by saying, *' From So-and-so,"
and *'to So-and-so."
Mr. Franklin. The difficulty is that these are not in order exactly.
Senator Smith. Take your time and give the date and hour and
name in each case.
Mr. Franklin. The trouble about it is that they are not all in
order. Here is a marconigram, dated April 15, 1912.
Senator Smith. From Jsew York?
Mr. Franklin. New York.
April 15, 1912.
Haddock, Olympic:
Do utmoflt to ascertain inunediatelv and advise us fully disposition TiUmic's pas-
sengers and where they will be landed.
Senator Smith. Signed by whom ?
Mr. Franklin. *^ Franklin.'' I think the best way to do it is to
get the time these telegrams were filed — a statement from the Marconi
company or the Postal Telegraph Co. here — the time they were filed
with them^ to confirm all these.
Senator Smith. That is all right; but we had better take what the
telegrams show, in so far as they do show anything.
Mr. Franklin. The only trouble is they have not the times on
them.
Senator Smith. In so far as they do show the dates and hours, give
us whatever the telegrams contain.
Mr. Franklin. Now, at about 6.20 or 6.30 p. m., April 15, the fol-
lowing telegram was handed to me.
Senator Smith. By whom, and where were you ?
Mr. Franklin. Handed to me by Mr. Toppin at No. 9 Broadway.
Senator Smith. Who is he ?
Mr. Franklin. Assistant to the vice president. The record here
shows this was received at 6.16 p. m. Tliis is addressed to Ismay,
New York, and is as follows:
CarpathAa reached TiUmic^s position at daybreak. Found boats and wreckage only.
Titantc had foundered about 2.20 a. m. in 41. i(} north, 50.14 west. All her boats
accounted for. About 675 souls saved, crew and passengers, latter nearly all women
and children. Leyland Line S. S. California remaining and searching position o£
disaster. Carpathia returning to New York with survivors; please inform Cunard.
Haddock.
Senator Smith. That is from the captain of the Olympic f
Mr. Franklin. Of the Olympic.
Senator Smith. Addressed to Ismay ?
Mr. Franklin. New York; that is our cable address. Immedi-
ately that telegram was received by me it was such a terrible shock
that it took us a few minutes to get ourselves together. Then at once
I telephoned, myself, to two of our directors, Mr. Steele and Mr.
Morgan, jr., and at tne same time sent downstairs for the reporters.
180 TITANIO DiaABTEB.
I started to read the messe^e, holding it in my hands, to the reporters.
I got off the first line and a half, where it said, ''The Tiianie sank at 2
o'clock a. m./' and there was not a reporter left in the room — they
were so anxious to get out to telephone the news.
Senator Smfth. The fact that the telegram was addressed to Mr.
Ismay, and that you knew that he was aboard the Oarpathia, or
rather aboard the Titanic, warranted you — [After a pause.] That
was the cable address ?
Mr. Franklin. It was the cable address of our own offices, prac-
tically?
Senator Smith. That does not indicate that it is intended for any
particular person ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; it is for the office; it is the business of the
company.
Senator Smith. All right; proceed.
Mr. Franklin. This is our cable address — code address. The
next telegram
Senator Smith. I wish the reporter might mark these telegrams for
identification.
Mr. Franklin. I will hand the whole bundle to him in a moment.
[Reading:]
Inexpressible sorrow. Am proceeding straight on voyage. Carpathia informs me
no hope in searching. Will send names survivors as obtainable.
Yaksi,
On Carpathia.
This telegram was addressed to '^Franklin, Care Ismay, New York,"
and signed '* Haddock."
Senator Smith. The '^Yamsi'' referred to is
Mr. Fkanklin. Mr. Ismay.
Senator Smith. Was that the first information you had that he was
on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Franklin. The first information that we had that he was on
the Carpathia,
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. Givc the hour of its receipt.
Mr. Franklin. These were both received very close to the same
time; I would say about 6.30 that evening.
Senator Smith. By whom was that signed ?
Mr. Franklin. By Haddock, of the Otympic,
Senator Fletcher. Where was the Olympic f
Mr. Franklin. She was about, at that time of the day — of course,
when this message was sent it was no doubt early in the morning.
These messages were aJl fearfully delayed, apparently ; but the Olympic
at that time of the day had been at and had proceeded from the spot
of the disaster, as far as our records show.
Senator Smith. But her exact location you have not determined ?
Ikfr. Franklin. We have not determined that.
Senator Smith. That is, her latitude and longitude?
Mr. Franklin. No; I may be wrong. She could not have been
quite at the wreck at that time. We fibred it out that she would be
at the wreck about 9 o'clock Monday night.
Senator Smith. AU right. Proceed.
1 1 ^^^ 7 t
TITANIC DISASTER. 181
Mr. BuKLiNGHAM. She did not get there?
Mr. Franklin. She did not get there at aU.
Senator Smith. I should judge, from what the captain said, that
after that telegram of sympathy he proceeded on his course.
Mr. Franklin. He proceeded on his course. I want to follow this
up with these others. This is our wireless, then, to Capt. Haddock.
Senator Smith. Of the Olympicf
Mr. Franki.in. Of the Olympic. \
Senator Smith. And the date?
Mr. Franklin. April 15, 7.10 p. m. [Reading:]
It is vitally important that wc liave name of every survivor on Carpathia imme-
diately. If you can expedite thi'* by standing by Carpathia^ kindly do bo.
Franklin.
The next message we sent was 7.15, exactly the same time, as far as
the telegrams are concerned. [Reading:]
Haddock, Olympic:
Distressed to learn from your message that Carpathia is only steamer with passengers.
Uoderptood Virffini/xn and Parisian also had pa^^sengers. Are you in communication
with them, and can you get any information?
Franklin.
I want to say this: That during the entire day we considered the
ship unsinkable, and it never cjitered our minds that there had been
anything like a serious loss of life. We of course thought there
might have been something in tiansf erring passengers or handling the
passengers; but it never entered our minds that there had been a
serious loss of life until w^e got this Haddock message at 6.30. Our
next wire to Capt. Haddock was April 15, 7.35 p. m. [Reading:]
Haddock, Olympic:
Wire us name of every passenger, oflRcer, and crew on Carpathia. It is most impor-
tant. Keep in commtmication with Carpathia until you accomplish this. Instruct
Cali/omittn to stand by scene of wreck until she hears from us or is relieved or her
coal supply runs short. Ascertain Cali/omian coal and how long she can stand by.
Have life rafts been accounted for? Are you absolutely satisfied that Carpathia has
all survivors, as had rumor that Virginian and Parisian also have survivors. Where
is BaUict
Franklin.
Then w^e sent another telegram to him at 9.55, April 1 6. That must
be 15. April 15 it is. [Reading:]
Capt. Haddock, Olympic:
Don't leave Carpathia until you have wired us names of survivors or you have
azranged for somebody else to immediately telegraph us the names.
Franklin.
Senator Smith. Was there any reply to that last one ?
Mr. Fbanklin. No reply to that. [Reading:]
April 16, 1912.— 3.15 p. m.
CoMMANDSBy Olympic:
Communicate following to commander, Carpathia: "What is your present position?
When do 5rou expect reach New York?" Sumner. Stop. Anxiously awaiting
names remaining additional survivors and crew.
Franklin.
Sumner was the agent of the Cunard Line^ and authorized us^to
use his name in our effort to get the Carpathia to give us the names
40475— PT a— 12 2
182 TITANtO MftASTBB.
of the passengei-s on the steamer — survivors, in other words. Then
Haddock wires:
S. S. Ctvnc VIA Cape Bacz, N. F.,
April 16, 291 f.
IsMAY, New York:
Please allav rumor that Virginian has any Titanie'$ passengere; neither has the
Tunitian; beueve only survivcNS on Carpatkia; second, third, fourth, and fifth officers^
and second Marconi operator only officers reported saved.
Haddock, Olympic.
1.45 a. m.
After that we had no further communication with Haddock.
Senator Smith. Did you then have any communication with the
Carvathia direxjt ?
MT. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you at any time have any communicfttion
with the Carpatkia direct en route to New York ?
Mr. Franklin. I sent him a telegram on April 16.
Senator Smith. What hour ?
Mr. Franklin. 10.35 p. m.
Senator Smith. Capt. Koston ?
Mr. Franklin. To "Commander, Carpathian [Reading:]
Do your utmodt wire White Star Line, New York, immediately names of Titanic
survivors on board your steamer.
Sumner.
I sent that by Mr. Sumner's name, thinking it would have more
effect than my own name.
Senator Smith. He represented the Cunard Co. ?
Mr. Franki.in. He is the agent of the Cunard Co. He sent a
representative in to tell us we could use his name.
Senator SMrrn. Did you get any reply to that ?
Mr. Franklin. I never received any communication from the
captain of the Carpatkia direct ourselves.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any communication through Cape
Race from him ?
Mr. Franklin. Only the names of the passengers.
Senator Smith. Or through any other snip ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir. We think the names of the passengers
were sent to us through the Olympic at first, and afterwards direct.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Frantdin, did you on Monday have any
conference with Mr. Marconi or Mr. Sammis ?
Mr. Franklin. I never saw Mr. Sammis until, I think, he appeared
at the investigation on Saturday;. I never talked to him in my life,
never had any communication with him to the best of my knowledge
and belief.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge or in any
•other manner, whether silence regarding this catastrophe was enjoined
upon Mr. Cottam, the operator of the wireless on tne Carpamia, or
ifr. Bride, the surviving operator of the wireless on the Titanic?
Mi\ Franklin. I emphatically do not, and I know absolutely
nothing about any censorship of the wireless in any direction.
Senator SMrrn. Who was the first person you saw upon the landing
of the Carpatkia?
Mr. Franklin. The first person that I saw?
Senator Smith. Among tne officers of either line.
'' TITANIC '' DISASTBB. 183
Mr. Franklin. The first person after the Carpathia docked, and I
left you to go up the gang plank, that I rememb^ having seen, or
that made any impression upon me whatsoever, was the captain of
die Carpathia, as I went into the house on the top deck.
Senator Smith. Did you go directly to the house on the top deck ?
Mr. Franklin. I had never been on the Carpathia before, had no
idea where I was going; but I thought I was gomg in the right direc-
tion, and happened to meet the captain in the companionway.
Senator Smith. Where did you go from the top deck ?
Mr. Franklin. I met the captain in the companionway on the top
deck, and asked him if I could see Mr. Ismay, and he took me right
down to Mr. Ismay's room.
Senator Smith. During that time did you see either wireless oper-
ator?
Mr. Franklin. I did not.
Senator Smith. During that time did you see either Mr. Marconi,
or Mr. Samis, or any representative of the Marconi company ?
Mr. Franklin. I did not.
Senator Smith. From what you say gives the committee to under-
stand that no communication from yourself or any subordinate officer,
at your instance, by your permission, attempted in any way to con-
trol the conduct of either wireless operator ?
Mr. Franklin. Most emphatically no.
Senator Smith. Did the captain accompany you to Mr. Ismay's
room^
Mr. Franklin. My recollection is that the captain accompanied
me to Mr. Ismay's room, and knocked at the door, and then I walked in.
Senator Smith. How long were you there ?
Mr. Franklin. I was there, I suppose, about — I would not sav
more than about-r-10 minutes when I heard that Senator Newlancls
and yom^elf were there. I suppose it was about 10 minutes.
Senator Smith. During that time, was there anything said between
yourself and Mr. Ismay regarding the operators ot the wireless ?
Mr. Franklin. Not a word.
Senator Sboth. Did Mr. Ismay make any suggestion that the
operators should refrain from talking ?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of my knowledge and belief Mr. Ismay
never mentioned a wireless operator to me the whole time, or any-
thing pertaining to him.
Senator Smith. Thus far you have not read any communications
from the Carpathia?
Mr. Franklin. The only communication that I had from the Car-
Sthia was one received by us from the Cunard Line, and reads as
lows
Senator Smith. Where is it dated?
Mr, Franklin. April 16 is up here [indicating]. This is simply a
copy. One of the Cunard Line men brought the message, as I remem-
ber it, and one of our men made a copy, just on a telegram. It was
not addressed to us.
Senator Smith. Where is it dated ?
Mr. Franklin. It is dated, up in the corner, April 16. That is
jnst a memorandum, ''7.55 a. m." This is the contents of the
mess€ige, no h,onr given on the message. This is from the Carpathia,
Capt. Kostron, to the Cunard Line.
I
A
184 TITANIC DISASTBB.
^^Carpathia, to Cunard Line/' A copy of their message; just a
pencil copy [reading]:
7.55 A. M.
New York, latitude 41.45; longitude 50.20 west. — Am proceeding New York unless
otherwise ordered, with about 800, aft«r having consulted with Mr. Ismay and con-
sidering the circumstances. With so much ice about, consider New York best.
Laige number icebergs, and 20 miles field ice with bergs amongst.
To the best of my knowledge and beUef that message was the first
thing we had in any way, shape, or form from the Carpathia, and
this was through the Cunard Line.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any other message after that from
them?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Neither directly nor through the Cunard Line ?
Mr. Franklin. We were telephoning the Cunard Line, in tele-
phone communication with them frequently, and asking whether
they had any information and whatever they had they gave us; but,
their information was very meager, and they were trjring all the time
to get information from the Carpathia and could not do it. That
was their report to us. If you will allow me to suggest, I would have
the original of that message.
Senator Smith. I want it.
Mr. Franklin. You will have to get it from the Cunard Line.
Senator Smith. I understand. Now, Mr. Franklin, are you familiar
with the provisions for the safety of passengers and crew of steamers
operating on lines of which you are vice president ?
Mr. Franklin. I am not familiar in a detailed way and have no
technical knowledge of that kind ; that does not come imder us. We
are really agents in the United States for the business of these lines.
The lines are not domiciled here, in the sense that the marine super-
intendent and the superintendent engineer and the victualing super-
intendents are all located abroad, and those instructions 3l come
from those people.
Senator Smith. Under what department of your company's man-
agement or affairs, if you know, could this information be oDtained ?
Mr. Franklin. What information, exactly. Senator ?
Senator Smith, Regarding the equipment of your ships ?
Mr. Franklin. Of life-saving apparatus?
Senator Smith. Life-saving apparatus, life preservers, and other
devices calculated to minimize the dangers of sea travel.
Mr. Franklin. Your Board of Trade certificate covers that to a
very large extent.
Senator Smith. That is, the British Board of Trade ?
Afr. Franklin. That is, the British Board of Trade. And then
any further information regarding the details of that could only be
S'ven to you intelligently by either a representative of the British
oard of Trade or our marine superintendents.
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. Or the builders.
Mr. Franklin. That is all right, but it may be altered a dozen times.
Senator Smith. Does the company buUd its own ships ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; a great majority of the company's ships
have been buUt by Messrs. Harlan & Wolfe on a percentage basis.
Senator Smith. In Belfast ?
" XIIANIO " DIBASTBB. 185
Mr. Franklin. In Belfast. But there has been no economy in any
way from them.
Senator Smith. Harlan & Wolfe, a corporation ?
Mr. Fbanklin. A corporation.
Senator Smith. An English corporation ?
Mr. F&ANKLiN. An English corporation.
Senator Smith. Has the company, so far as you know, or any
officer or director interest in the Duiiding company?
Mr. Fbanklin. I have never heard of any.
Senator Smith. Have you any interest, personally ?
Mr. Franklin. Not a cent.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Ismay has any interest
or not ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not.
Senator Smith. The headquarters of Harlan & Wolfe are in Belfast ?
Mr. Franklin. Belfast.
Senator Smith. Have you an official roster of the officers in the
crew of the Titanic when she sailed from Southampton ?
Mr. Franklin. We have cabled over for that.
Senator Smith. Will jrou furnish that to the conunittee ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When may we expect it ?
Mr. Franklin. I think the cable went on Saturday, Senator; but
we have not been to our offices since.
• Senator Smith. Have you an official list of the officers and crew and
passengers of the Titanic on the day she sailed from Southampton ?
Mr. Franklin. No^ sir; but we have cabled for the officers and
crew in accordance with your suggestion.
Senator SMrrn. And passengers t
Mr. Franklin. No.
Senator Smith. I would like the passengers.
Mr. Franklin. We have a cable giving uie names of the passengers.
I'am not sure whether that covers all the first class or not; but I will
see you get it.
Senator Smith. I would like to have it cover all.
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Smith. All passengers, whether first, second, or third class.
Mr. Franklin. We will furnish to you the names of the officers,
crew, and the passengers.
Senator Smith. Also such data as will enable the committee to
know where they live, their full names, and their addresses. I be-
lieve this is one of the precautions taken by steamship companies, is
it not, to insure accuracy ?
Mr. Franklin. Those records are taken for the immigration au-
thorities; but as a rule they are taken on the ship; they make an
effort to get them before the^ sail, but they are never complete.
They are completed on the ship, and I am very much afraid they
were destrovea with the ship ; but we can get you all we have.
Senator Smith. You can get the sailings — the bookings — of pas-
sengers, can you not ?
Mr. Franklin. We can get actual bookings. We can get the
numbers from East Cort, Southampton, Cherbourg, and Queenstown
in each class.
Ct ^ >f
186 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And the place that each was located on the ship,
as far as stateroom, or otherwise ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not believe you can do that.
Senator Smith. I wish you would try.
Mr. Franklin. We will try.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any record, document, or
part of the ship's equipment has been saved ?
Mr. Franklin. I have not heard of a thing being saved.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the log of the ship has been
saved ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not.
Senator Smith. Have you heard anything about it ?
Mr. Franklin. We have.
Senator Smith. From whom?
Mr. Franklin. From the second officer.
Senator Smith. From anyone else ?
Mr. Franklin. But a mmute. You had the officer on the stand
yourself. That was the man I am referring to.
Mr. BuRLiNQHAM. That was the third officer.
Senator Smith. I interrogated Mr. Crawford.
Mr. Franklin. That is the only man we have heard from.
Senator Smith. You have not asked, yourself?
Mr. Franklin. I have not had a word with any officer or any
member of the crew.
Senator Smith. Since the landing of the crew?
Mr. Franklin. Since the landing of the ship, except just to say,
''Good morning."
Senator Smith. Of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Franklin. Of the Carvathia,
Senator Smith. Can you ootain for the committee the plans and
specifications for the construction of this ship ?
Mr. Franklin. I can obtain whatever the Oceanic Steam Naviga-
tion Co., the owners of this ship, had. But these steamers are built
by Messrs. Harlan & Wolfe on a commission basis. But their speci-
fications on that are drawn in the great detail that ordinarily applies
in steamers ooncepted under contract.
Senator Smith. Will you, through the officers of your company in
England, endeavor to obtain from Harlan & Wolfe the plans. and
specifications that were followed in the construction of this sliip?
Mr. Franklin. We will, sir.
Senator Smith. You speak of the percentage basis.
Mr. Franklin. Right.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Franklin. They charge us for each steamer ail the cost, plus
the costs plus a certain percentage for comimsskm to them.
Senator Smith. That is, you adopt the plan and authorize the con-
struction of the ship, holmng yourselves responsible for its entire
cost plus the profit or percentage which go to the builders over and
above its actual cost.
Mr. Franklin. That is quite right. Of course, they give us an
estimate, as I understand it; give the company ordering Uie ship an
estimate of about what that cost is going to be.
Senator Smith. Do you have an engineer of your own who super-
vises this work?
€t _-»«^^ yy
TTTANTC DISASTEE. 187
Mr. Fbanklin. That is all done abroad, and all controlled by the
company directly owning the boat, the steamer, who no doubt have
the engineer.
Senator Smith. Who was Mr. Anderson that perished on the Titanic?
Mr. Frakklin. I do not know any Mr. Ahderson.
Senator Smith. Andrews ?
Mr. Franklin. Mr. Thomas Andrew was one of the most prominent
men in the employ of Messrs. Harlan & Wolfe, who constructed the
Titanic,
Senator Smith. He was their representative abbard this ship 'i
Mr. Fbanklin. He was their representative aboard this ship.
Senator Smith. On the trial tnp? ^
Mr. Franklin. On the maiden voyage, I would say.
Senator Smith. The maiden voyage ?
Mr. Franklin. The maiden voyage.
Senator Sifmr. And I assume during the trial tests ?
Mr. Franklin. That I do not know; but I assume so. I do not
know.
Senator Smith. I think some one testified to that fact the other
dav.
Mr. Franklin. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Are the steamers classed in any of the accepted
classification societies ?
Mr. Franklin. They are far in excess of any classification societies.
They could be classified at any time. Whenever it has been necessary
to class any of them, it has been done without any difficulty.
Senator Smith. Do you carry insurance on the steamers ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Bv whom are your steamers designed ?
Mr. Franklin. These questions that you are asking me, about
who designed the steamer, etc., I want you to fully understand that
does not come under my jurisdiction at all.
Senator Smith. I uncierstand. I am seeking such information as
you have.
Mr. Franklin. My information, from what I have seen myself,
is that steamers are really designed by Messrs. Harlan & Wolfe's
people, and submitted to Ismay and the company, and gone over
carefimy with them constantly, not only at the time of designing, but
during the course of constniction. They are given the utmost care
and consideration, from every point of view.
Senator SinTH. What was the cost of this ship to your company?
Mr. Franklin. In round numbers she cost one million five hundred
and odd
Senator Smfth. You do not mean one million
Mr. Franklin. Yes; I am giving the amount in pounds.
Senator Smith. In pounds ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. One million five hundred and some odd thousand
pounds.
Senator Bourne. Is that complete ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; and equipped.
Senator Smith. That included all its equipment, of every kind and
character)
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
<< ft
188 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. If you know, will you tell the committee it3 tonnage
capacity ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not tell you its tonnage capacity. Its gross
tonnage was about 45,000 tons.
Senator Smith. Was that the largest ship ever built by your com-
pany ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir; this ship was of nearly 46,000 tons.
Senator Smith. What is the next in point of tonnage ?
Mr. Franklin. The Olympic, which is nearer 45,000 tons.
Senator Smith. In addition to the plans and specifications which I
have asked for, I think it desirable for the committee to know the
stability data, in loaded cnodition and in light condition and in
damaged condition, of the Titanic. Can you obtain this information ?
Mr. Franklin. I can try to get it, from Messrs. Harlan & Wolf.
Senator Smith. Of your own knowledge, can you answer that ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; I could not do it. I can give you the gross
tonnage now, exactly, if you desire it.
Senator Smith. Please do so.
Mr. Franklin. Forty-six thousand three hundred and twenty-
eight tons. Net reristered tonnage, 21,831.
Senator Smith. How many passengers would this ship accommo-
date, under your plan of operation, safely ?
Mr. Franklin. In rouna numbers, I would say, for the first, second,
and third class, about 2,200 or 2,300 passengers.
Senator Smith. How many in the first class ?
Mr. Franklin. I was referring to the Olympic, there, Senator, by
mistake. I would make that about 2,500 passengers, for the Titanic.
Senator Smith. One moment, then. Does the figure you mention
give the passenger capacity of the Olymvicf
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir; that gives tne passenger capacity of the
Olympic.
Senator Smith. Give us the passenger capacity of the Titantic,
Mr. Franklin. I could not give you that, myself. I would say
about 750 first, as you would load your passengers. If you had every
berth occupied, sKe would carry more; but, as you would load her,
about 750 first class, about 500 second class, and about 1,000 third
lass, or 1,200 third class.
It would depend entirely on the way you sell your rooms in the
first and second class.
Senator Smith. Will you, for the information of the committee,
tell us)how this distinction is made in accommodations ?
Mr. Franklin. The distinction is made, in the first place, down
below in^the house; there are partitions or doors in the companion-
ways.
Senator Smith. WTiat is that called?
Mr. Franklin. How do you mean? They are called bulkheads
with doors.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Franklin. Then, at certain places on the upper decks
Senator Smith. Are there any berths down there ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; I am speaking of the places, now, below decks,
where the cabins are.
Senator Smith. Exactly.
€( »^-..*«^ >y
TITANIC DISASTER. 189
Mr. Franklin. Then, on the upper decks, the space may be sep-
arated by a railing, or in some ships by well decks, which" separate
the houses.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Franklin. That is the only thing.
The whole equipment is entirely different. There are diflFerent
accommodations, you know.
Senator Smith. What is the difference in cost of transportation
from Southampton to New York, if any, in these various classes ?
ilr. Franklin. They all vary. Sliips are rated. Each ship is
rated with a minimum rate in the first and second class.
Senator Smith. I refer particularly to the Titanic.
Mr. Franklin. All right, sir. You want to compare the Titanic to
what ship ?
t^ Senator Smith. I do not care to compare it to any ship. I would
like to know, if you can tell me, what it costs a passenger, to come
from Southampton to New York, first class, second class, and third
class.
Mr. Franklin. That is what I was trying to get at.
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. Bv the Titanic.
Mr. Franklin. In the case of the Titanic ^ the lowest rate at which
the Titanic would carry a first class passenger was $125. That is the
minimum rate.
Senator Smith. What does that include ?
Mr. Franklin. That includes everything. In includes a berth,
in with one or two other people, or something of that sort, not a room
for a man to himself.
Senator Smith. And it includes meals also ?
Mr. Franklin. Also meals; everything. It includes everything.
It is inclusive.
Senator Smith. And service ?
Mr. Franklin. And service. It includes everything. As far as
the second-class passenger rate is concerned, I think it was $66 on the
same basis, and including everything. The third-class rate is
about $40.
Senator Smith. What about the steerage ?
Mr. Franklin. That is what I say; the tliird class or steerage rate
was about $40. It varies.
Senator Smith. And I should also like to ask about their accommo-
dations. Can you describe them ?
Mr. Franklin. They are separated in the same way, either below
a deck or they are separated by a bulkhead with doors in it; and when
you get to the upper deck, they have certain spaces on the ship which
are separated by rails.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. Never. I have never been aboard her.
Senator Smith. You have accurate descriptions of her, I suppose ?
Mr. Franklin. I have seen photographs of her, and so on.
Senator Smith. I suppose your office has been fully advised as to
her general character?
S&. Franklin. Yes; but, of course, we have not been so fully
advised about the Titanic^ because we already had the Olympic, and
the Titanic is practically a sister ship of the Olympic,
J
190 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I think I understood you to say that you did not
receive any wireless messages from the Carpathia at all until Capt.
Rostron's message to the Cunard Line ?
Mr. Franklin. In this way: We called up several times. We
called the Navy Department at Newport and asked them if they could
not ask the captain of the Carpaihia by wireless through the Navy
steamer that was going out there, the Salem, to try to get us some
further information about the third-class and the crew aboard the
Carpaihia,
We were trying in all directions, through the Cun^xd Line, through
the Navy Department, through every source of information we could
think of, to get information of the third class and crew on the Car-
pathia, to get their names.
Senator Smith. Is this Newport oflice a postal office of the Marconi
companv ?
Mr. Ibanklin. No, sir; it is a United States torpedo station, as
I understand it.
Senator Smith. And you appealed through that station ?
Mr. Franklin. We telephoned; yes, three or four times.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any results ?
Mr. Franklin. My recollection is that we got telephone replies to
one or two of those messages — that the captains had reported that
they had done everything they could.
Here is one now:
Message delivered to Carpaihia through Chester. Chester answers that complete list
of freight and second-class passengers and crew sent ashore by Carpathia. Chester
states will send list of first-class passengers when received from Carpathia. Chester in
communication with Carpaihia.
That is signed "Torpedo Station," and addressed "White Star
Line, New York." It is from Newport, April 17, 1912.
Senator Smith. I would like to have that marked for idcntification.
The telegram referred to was marked by the stenographer "F. R. H.
No. 1, April 22, 1912."
Mr. Franklin. Here is another addressed ''White Star Line,"
from Newport, R. I., April 17, reading:
White Star Line, N. Y. C:
Chester reports in communication with Carpathia repeatedly. Asks Carpafftia for
list of third-class passengers. Request not complied witn. Will try again. Carpathia
in communication with shore stations.
And it is signed: ''Torpedo Station." That was received April 17.
Our whole anxiety at the time was to try to get the names of the
people.
ilere is another telegram from the torpedo station:
Titanic passengers on Carpathia. List incomplete. Communication interrupted.
Will forward further information as received. Sending expression your wishes.
That is addressed ''White Star Line'' and signed ''Torpedo Station."
Senator Smith. AVliat date is that?
Mr. Franklin. That is dated Newport, April 17, 1912, 4.36 a. m.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about an attempt on the
part of the President of the United States to get into communication
wuth the Carpathia'^
Mr. Franklin. I do not, sir. We had some telegrams from the
President regarding Maj. Butt, and we answered them as promptly
as we could. That is all.
ti ..«.». ^^^ fy
TITANIO DISASTER. 191
Senator Smith. I would like this record to show whether yourself
or any officer of your company, at any time before the loading of the
Carpaihia, received any message from any person asking that the
Cedric should be held in New York until the arrival of the Carpathia ?
Mr. FiUNKLiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From whom ?
Mr. Franklin. Here is a telegram: '^Steamship Carpathia, April
17, 1912.''
Senator Smith. What is the hour?
Mr. Franklin. 5.35 p. m. is stamped on here.
Mo0t desirable Titanic crew aboard Carpathia should be returned horn earliest
moment possible. Suggest you hold Cedric, sailing her daylight Friday unless you
see any reason contrary. Propose returning in her myself. Please send outfit of
clothes, including shoes, for me to Cedric. Have nothing of my own. Please reply.
Yamsi.
One word in this telegram reads '^and. '' I have read it as ''any/'
l>eeause there is no douot that that is what it was. It was under-
scored when it was handed to me, showing that it was evidently a
mistake.
Senator Smith. Whose code or cipher signature is that ?
Mr. Frankun. That is Mr. Ismay's signature or cipher.
Senator Smtth. Was any reply made to that ?
Mr. Frankun. "Ismay, Carpathian April 17, 1912, 8 p. m., we
sent it.
Senator SMrm. What date is that?
Mr. Franklin. April 17. That is in reply to this other one.
Senator Smith. Tnat was Wednesday ?
Mr. Franklin. That was Wednesday evening. Did you want me
to read it ?
Senator Smith. Yes, please.
Mr. Franklin (reading) :
IsMAY, Carpathia:
Have arranged forward crew lAiplandj sailing Saturday, calling Plymouth. We all
cuDfdder most iinwiae delay Cedric, considering all circumstances.
Senator Smith. Who sent that ?
Mr. Franklin. It is signed '* Franklin."
Senator Smith. Did you get any reply to that ?
Mr. Franklin. I think the best way is just to read all these tele-
grams as they come.
Senator Smith. I wish you would.
Mr. Franklin. They are a little mixed up.
Senator Smith. I want that story in the record.
Mr, Franklin. The best way to do that is to read all these tele-
grams as they come here, and not say which is the -reply.
Senator Smith. All right. Just proceed, keeping in mind that we
want the date and the person to whom and from whom the telegram
was sent, and the signature.
Mr. Franklin. I will.
Senator Smith. Give them in chronological order, if possible.
Mr. Franklin. I am a little doubtful about that; but to the best
of wour knowledge and belief they are in order. [Reading:]
Send responsible ship officer and 14 White Star sailors iu 2 tugboats^
Senator Smith. You did not give the name of the person to whom
that message is addressed.
t( ^ }f
192 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. 'Franklin. This is via Woods Hole, Mass., steamship Car-
?athia, via Siasconsett, Mass., and addressed, ''Islefrank, New York.''
'hat is our cable address, or one of them.
Senator Smith. Were you communicating through a Government
station ?
Mr. Franklin. We did not care. We were filing the message with
the wireless people, and we did not care how they went. [Reading:]
Send responsible ship officer and 14 White Star sailors in 2 tugboats to take chaise
of 13 JSlanic boats at quarantine.
Yamsi.
u.oO A. M .
I do not see the date there.
Senator Smith. Pardon me, right there. Was *' Yamsi" a regis-
tered signature — a signature previously used — or was it in use for
the first time then ?
Mr. Franklin. It is a registered signature abroad, and it is a
signature that we all know for Mi, Ismay's address. Whether it is
registered in New York or not I could not say, but it is not used by
us very much over here. It is used entirely on the other side.
Senator Smith. And it indicates what ?
Mr. Franklin. It indicates that if you send a telegram addressed
'* Yamsi, Liverpool," it will be delivered to Mr. Ismay himself.
Senator Smith. Yes; and if signed ''Yamsi," what does that
indicate ?
Mr. Franklin. It indicates that it has been sent by Mr. Ismay.
Senator Smith. All rigjht.
Mr. Franklin. That is my understanding of it. It is not the
word we usually send over here.
This telegram is addressed to the Steamship Carvaihia, Woods Hole,
Mass., Apru 18, addressed to Islefrank, New York:
Please join Carpathia quarantine if possible.
Yamsu
3.35 a. m.
Steamship "Carpathia/' via Siasconsett, Mass.,
April 18, 1912,
Islefrank, New York:
Very important you should hold Cedrie daylight Friday for Titanic crew. Reply.
Yambi.
8 a. m.
Steamship ' ' Carpathia , ' '
New York,
Islefrank, New York:
Very important you should hold Cedrie daylight Friday for Titanic crew. Answer.
Yakbi.
Steamship "Carpathia/' via Siasgonsbtts, Mass.
Islefrank, New York:
Think most unwise keep Titanic crew until Saturday. Strongly urge detain Cedrie
sailing her midnight if desirable.
Yamsi.
That is April 18. All of these are April 18.
Senator Smith. That was Thursday, the 18th.
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir [continuing reading]:
"Carpathia," via Siasconsett, Mass«
(( ^,^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 193
And there are just the two fimires there *' 18 " after that. It does
not say anything else. It is aadressed:
Isle PRANK, New York:
Unless you have good and substantial reason for not holding Cedric, please arrange
to do so. Most undesirable have crew New York so long.
No signature.
Senator Smith. To whom was that addressed ?
Mr. Franklin. That is addressed in the usual way: ^'Islefrank,
New York/'
Tlien this telegram:
IsMAY, Carpathia:
Regret after fullest consideration decided Cedric must sail as scheduled. Expect
join Carpathia at quarantine, but can not remove boats, as everything arrangea for
Nteamer proceed dock immediately.
Signed^ Franklin."
That is all on that subject, sir.
Senator Smith. What are the other messages you have there ?
Mr. Fbanklin. The others are:
Suggest senior surviving navigating officer prepare brief statement facts ready for
us upon arrival quarantine.
That is addressed to Mr. Ismay, steamship Carpathia, and signed
"Franklin.''
The next one was one I sent to Mr. Ismay on the Carpathia. And
I wish to say that I do not think any of these later ones were deliv-
ered, that I am reading now:
1»MAY, Carpatkia:
Concine Marconigram account of actual accident greatly needed for enlightenment
public and ourselves. This most important.
Franklin.
That was sent at 4.45 o'clock p. m. April 18.
The next one is:
Steamship ** Carpathia," via Siasconsett,
April 18.
I8LEFRAXK, New York:
Widener not aboard. Hope to see you quarantine. Please cable wife am return-
ing Cedric.
Yahsi.
The next ene is:
Bruce Ismat, Carpathia:
Extremely sorry authorities decline allow me aboard steamer quarantine. We have
made all possible arrangements facilitate landing of the passengers. Will meet you
at pier.
Franklin.
Senator Smith. Are those all of the telegrams you received from
the Carpathia, or from any officer of your company aboard the Car-
pathia, or any member of the crew or any of tne passengers ?
Mr. Franklin. Right, sir. Every one.
Senator Smith. Please hand those to the stenographer.
Mr. Franexin. Yes, sir. I mean to say, in addition to the tele-
grams that we have testified to as trying to convey our wish to the
captain for information about the matter.
Senator Smith. Exactly. Was that all that you sent ?
Mr. Fbanklin. No, sir. Here is one more that I find here.
Senator Smith. Read it, please.
194 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Fbanklix (reading):
Bruce Ismay, Steamer Carpathia
Senator Smith. What is the date, please ?
Mr. Franklin. April 17, 1912, 3.30 p. m.
So thankful you are saved, but grieving with you over terrible calamity. Shall
sail Saturdav to return with you. Florence cable ends. Accept my deepest 8>Tn-
pathy horrible catastrophe. Will meet you aboard CarpcUhia after ? docking. Is
Widener aboard?
Franklin.
Where I read ^^ Florence cable ends," that refers to a cable received
from Mrs. Ismay, to convey that to Mr. Ismay. And then tre put in
these two words, ^^Cable ends."
Senator Smith. Are there any other messages there ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Those are to be filed with the committee.
Mr. KiRLiN. May we make a suggestion, Senlitor? I think Mr.
Franklin has omitted one message, from Mr. Ismay himself, announc-
ing the loss. That was not received for two or three days.
Mr. Franklin. That was a message not in connection with this
Cedric matter at all. This was a message received from Mr. Ismay.
Mr. Kirlin. When?
Mr. Franklin. This message was dated *^ Steamship Carpathian
April 17," and addressed to ^'Islefrank."
Mr., BuRLiNGHAM. And received when ?
Mr. Franklin. Received on the 17th. [Reading:]
Deeply regret advise you Titanic sank this morning after collision iceberg, resulting
serious loss life. Furdier particulars later.
Bruce Ibicat.
9.58 a. m.
That was evidently sent bv Mr. Ismay.
Senator Smith. On what date ?
Mr. Franklin. I shall give it to you. That was evidently sent by
Mr. Ismay immediately or very shortly after the accidelit, but was not
received by us until 9 a. m. of the *17th, Wednesday.
Senator Smith. Are those all of the communications received from
any officer of your company or any member of the crew, or any pas-
sengers aboard the Carvaihia, from the time of the sinking of the
Titanic until the Carpathia reached New York ?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of my knowledge and belief, they are all
of the telegrams.
Senator SMrrn. Will you file them with us ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether they are all that were sent ?
Mr. Franklin. Of course, they are all I received.
I understand, Senator, that these have nothing to do with our tele-
grams received in giving the list of passengers.
Senator Smith. I imderstand these are messages of a Uttle diflferent
character.
Mr. Franklin. These are the only messages we received from any
passengers, any member of the crew, any Marconi operator, or any-
thing of that land on the Oarpaihia,
Senator Smith. Exactly.
Mr. Franklin. Or sent to them.
ft ,^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 195
Senator Smith. In routine telegrams, do you address Mr. Ismay as
•Yamsi"«
Mr. Fkanklin. We never use, between here and Liverpool, or when
Mr. Ismay is abroad, the word **Yamsi'' at all. It is a word used in
England and abroad. We have knowledge that that is his address
that is used frequently in Engjland, but not over here.
Senator Smith. Have you instructions as to the use of "Yamsi"
or " Ismay " %
iir. Franklin. I never use the word *' Yamsi."
Senator Smith. But have you any instructions in regard to the
matter ?
Mr. Franbxin. I have no instructions.
Senator Smith. I understood you to say that the Cedric departed
in accordance with the last telegram that you sent to the Carpathia
before the arrival of the Carpathia,
Mr. Franklin. The Cedric departed at noon on Thursday.
Senator Smith. And the Carpathia arrived at the docK in New
York when ?
Mr. Franklin. At about 9.30 p. m. on Thursday.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Ismay ask you to make other arrangements
for his immediate departure for England ?
Mr, Franklin. I had no communication from Mr. Ismav about his
departure for England, except the communications that i have read
on to you here.
Mr. Ismay never mentioned his personal departure, except in the
first telegram and the telegram which he asked us to convey to Mrs.
Ismay. He left the departure of himself entirely to us — the question
of his departure — as i understood it. His personal departure was
left to us.
Senator Smith. What did you determine about it ?
Mr. Franklin. We determined it would be a very unfortunate
thing to attempt to hold the Cedric and hurry the crew on board or
agree to Mr. Ismay's sailing under the present circumstances, with
which Mr. Ismay, as we knew, was not in any way familiar. We
were here, and we were hearing the criticism. We knew what was
being said, but Mr. Ismay had no 'knowledge or information regarding
that. We realized the necessity of getting the crew off, which was
just what we wanted done in every other case of the kind and what
every shipowner would do.
Senator Smith. When did you first know of the oflicial investiga-
tion that was proposed ?
Mr. Franklin. I first knew of the official investigation, I will say,
about 2 o'clock on Thursday. I could not exactly fix the time, but
I think it would have been about 2 o'clock on Thursday.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate that fact to your company ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think I did. I may have by cable that
night to Liverpool after it was all over.
Senator Smith. That is what I mean.
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou communicate to your company the pur-
pose to make an official inquiry ?
Mr. Franklin. I may have to Liverpool that night. I think I did.
Senator Smith. And did you communicate that fact to Mr, Ismay ?
Mr. Franklin. After I got on the Carpathia,
196 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Mr. Franklin, Senator Perkins desires to ask you a
few questions.
Mr. Perkins. I want to ask you whether you had the Titanic con-
structed under the British Lloyds and Bureau Veritas ?
Mr. Franklin. I am sure she was not constructed under the Bureau
Veritas, and I do not think she was constructed under the Lloyds;
because these steamers are all in excess of the Lloyds requirements.
Senator Perkins. Is she entitled to a subvention from the
Government ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Perkins. She was constructed under the direction of a
naval officer, then ?
Mr. Franklin. Not necessarily. In my opinion, that is a
matter
Senator Perkins. If she were entitled to a subvention, it would be
necessary for her to be constructed in accordance with the rules and
regulations of the Navy Department, as I understand it.
Mr. Franklin. There is some requirement of that kind, but I can
not give you information regarding that.
Senator Perkins. As to her equipment ?
Mr. Franklin. As to her equipment. It has to be in accordance
with the Board of Trade rules.
Senator Perkins. In other words, in accordance with the British
law?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; and her equipment was in excess of those
requirements.
Senator Perkins. She was fuUv equipped in accordance with the
requirements of the British Board of Trade ?
Mr. Franklin. She was equipped in excess of the requirements of
the law of the British Board of Trade.
Senator Perkins. And that is based upon the British law, of
course ?
Mr. Franklin. That is based upon the British law, of course.
Senator Perkins. In regard to this matter of a Government sub-
vention you say you have no knowledge of her having been built under
the direction of the Navy Department ?
Mr. Franklin. I have no knowledge as to what the requirements
of the Navy Department are in connection with the subvention.
There is some provision, I believe, in regard to the strengthening of
the ship.
Senator Perkins. All merchant ships are required to be constructed
under the requirements of the British Lloyds ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir
Senator Perkins (continuing). In order to get a rating. They are
obliged to, in this country.
i&. Franklin. Not the British Lloyds in this country.
Senator Perkins. The American Lloyds.
Mr. Franklin. Not necessarily.
Senator Perkins. They have to do it, to get the advantage of the
subsidy, do they not ?
Mr. Franklin. That pohcy is piu^ued. under the British Lloyds,
in regard to the construction, very largely by people having tramp
steamers and other steamers of that type, but vmen you get down to
this more expensive and better type of st-eamers, they are so far in
t( . , ^ yf
TITANIC DISASTER. 197
excess 6f any regulations that there is nothing to be accomplished by
having that done. But they can always be put under these regula-
ions if you want them to be.
As far as the board of trade is concerned, in regard to the protection
for life, no ship can sail from England without the boara of trade
certificate. That is the law of England.
Senator Perkins. They can not be cleared from the customhouse
without the certificate ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir. Thev would not be allowed to carry any
passengers unless they had the board of trade certificate.
Senator Perkins. And entered in the customhouse, of course ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; and nailed in a prominent place on the
steamer.
Senator Perkins. That is all.
Mr. Franklin. I would like to get clearly before you that the
board of trade certificate which is the law of England is entirely
different from the classification under Lloyds, which is purely the com-
mercial problem. The one is the law. The other is purely a business
matter.
Senator Perkins. One is a set of rules and regulations ?
Mr. Franklin. The board of trade rules and regulations. That is
the law. This ship was in excess of the requirements of the law in
every particular at that time.
Senator Bourne. Is the White Star a British company %
Mr. Franklin. The Oceanic Steam Navigation Co.
Senator Bourne. I am speaking of the White Star Line itself. Is
the White Star Line a corporation ?
Mr. Franklin. It is a trade name; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. It is just a trade name ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. The company is the Oceanic Steam Navigation
Co.?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Owner of the White Star Line ?
Mr. Franklin. Right.
Senator Bourne. A British company ?
Mr. Franklin. Eight.
Senator Bourne. And the stock is held there ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. The International Mercantile Marine Co. is
interested in that stock, is it ?
Mr. Franklin. They are the holding company.
Senator Bourne. Through the subsidiary companies is the owner-
ship of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. in the International
Mercantile Marine ?
Mr. Franklin. The Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. is the managing
company, the controlling company, the owning company of the miite
Star Line. That is the trade name under which the steamers run as a
trade name.
The stock of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. is owned by the
International Navigation Co. (Ltd.) of England, of Liverpool.
Senator Bourne. And the stock of the company is owned by whom ?
Mr. Franklin. It is controlled and owned by the I. M. M. Co.,
through the bondholders.
4047^— PT 3—12 ^3
198 * TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. That is, through the International Mercantile
Marine Co. ?
Mr. Feanklix. The International Mercantile Marine Co. of New
Jersey.
Senator Bourne. That is an American company ?
Mr. Franklin. That is an American company.
Senator Bourne. Is the management ol the International Mer-
cantile Manne Co. dictated from the United States of from the
Liverpool office ?
Mr. Franklin. The policy, the management, from that point of
view, is dictated by the president, Mr. Ismay, whose headquarters
are in Liverpool.
Senator Bourne. That is, the practical management ?
Mr. Franklin. The practical management.
Senator Bourne. The general management or the general policy
would be dictated by the International Mercantile Marine Co. in
New York, would it not — ^from their office ?
Mr. Franklin. All the questions regardmg operation or manage-
ment of the company are leit to Mr. Ismay, the president.
Senator Bourne. That is, the practical management ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Bourne. If you were going to increase the stockholdings,
if you were going to invest several imllion dollars in new ships, you
would decide it in New York, would you not ?
Mr. Franklin. If we were going to invest several million dollars
in new ships, Mr. Ismay
Senator Bourne (interposing). Would make his recommendation?
Mr. Franklin. He would probably make his recommendation.
Senator Bourne. But the decision would be with the New York
conapany, however?
Mr. Franklin. Not necessarily.
Senator Bourne. Is it customarily ? In building the Titanic, who
decided the matter ?
Mr. Franklin. In building the Titanic? I could not tell you
exactly how it was decided, but it was led up to in this way: Mr.
Ismay, no doubt, consulted with the various directors, and it was
decided that it would be desirable to follow out his recommendations
and construct two steamers, the Olympic and the Titanic, That met
with the approval of the board of directors.
Senator Bourne. The action was taken by the board of directors
in New York ?
Mr. Franklin. They, in confirming Mr. Ismay's action, did that;
yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. They vitalized the action or recommendation ?
Mr. Franklin. Thev confirmed his action.
Senator Bourne. He could not have taken the action, but for their
authority, could he ? He would not have done so, as a matter of fact ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think he would have done so.
Senator Bourne. No. Was there any direction or request sent
from the management or anything connected with the International
Mercantile Marine or any of the subsidiary companies to try to make
a speed record on the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. Not the slightest, and never would be in the first
voyage. She never would be pressed.
i i .— .-. . ^*,^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 199
Senator Bourne. From the experience incident to the Titanic dis-
aster^ have you or your associates come to any conclusion as to laws.
policies, or regulations which, if internationally adopted, would
minimize the possibility of repetitions of such a catastrophe ?
Mr. Franklin. I think the fairest way for me to answer that Ques-
tion is this: That since the accident to the Titanic we have been
absolutely overwhelmed, first in distress matters, to do everything
we could for everybody, and the only precaution or action that we
have taken is that Mr. Ismay authorized, last Friday, and instructed
the managers abroad to immediately ship all of the I. M. M. Co.'s
steamers with Ufeboats and life rafts enough to carry every passenger
and every member of the crew. Further than that we have not gone.
Senator Bourne. Those new instructions were based upon your
conclusions, I assume, that it wds impossible to make a nonsinkable
ship?
!Mr. Franklin. Based upon a conclusion that nobody ever for one
moment reaUzed that an accident of this kind could have happened.
There was nothing further from the minds of evervbody than tnat an
accident of this kind could take place. We never thought, until we got
Capt. Haddock's message in the first place, that the ship could go
down, and, in the next place, that there would be any material loss
of life. This has demonstrated an entirely new proposition that has
to be dealt with — ^something that nobody had ever tnought of before.
These steamers were considered trementlous Hfeboats in themselves.
This vessel was constructed as only three other ships have been con-
structed, and they are all owned by the White Star Line.
Senator Bourne. Have you come to anj conclusion in your own
mind that an^ individual was responsible m any direction or in any
manner for this catastrophe ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not see how you can blame anybody. You
have the best commander; you have everybody aboard tnat was
interested in the ship; there is no reason to feel that every precaution
would not be taken. You had no instructions to force the ship; you
had nothing for which you can blame yourself at all.
Senator Bourne. You say the Titanic cost, complete, one million
and a half pounds, in round numbers. What was sne insured for ?
Mr. Franklin. She was insured for, in round numbers, £1,000,000,
the balance being carried by the I. M. M. Co., under our own under-
writing scheme.
Senator Bourne. You say Harlan & Wolf built your ships on a
percentage basis. They construct plans and submit them to you,
and you determine, and then your representatives, I presume, over-
see the construction of the ship, and tney get an added percentage of
the cost ? So it is to their advantage to make the ship, from a dollar
standpoint, cost as much as possible, is it not ?
Mr. Franklin. Right, sir.
When you say that I do this, you mean, of course, that the com-
pany, in its ranufications, does this. The owner of the ship does this;
the owningcompany ?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
Mr. Franklin. There is every reason why Harlan & Wolf would be
very glad to put anything under Heaven on the ship, because the
more they put on it the more they make.
200 TITANIC mSASTEB.
Senator Bourne. What percentage is customary for Harlan & Wolf
to receive on the cost ?
Mr. Franklin. I think it is 5 per cent. It is covered by an
agreement.
Senator Bourne. Have you any knowledge as to whether precau-
tionary measures were taken by the officers of the ship after word
was received of the vicinity of icebergs and ice floes ?
Mr. Franklin. I have no doubt of that, because of what we have
gotten from the testimony before you. As I say, I have not had any
talk about the matter with any of the officers and men. I have not
had any conversation with them about the matter.
Senator Bourne. Have you or your associates come to any con-
clusion as to improvements that can be made in legislation that would
minimize the possibility of the repetition of a catastrophe of this
nature ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; because, as I have just said, we have had
no time to thoroughly discuss that.
Senator Bourne. You have not had the time?
Mr. Franklin. We have not had the time to do it. We can only
say this: That everything we have is open, and we will give you
every assistance that we possibly can, in every way. If there are any
suggestions that we can make, or any matters in regard to which you
desire our opinion, or anything of that kind, we will get our experts to
give it to you.
We are not experts ourselves. That is what I would like to have
you understand.
Senator Bourne. The only deduction you have made is that it is
impossible to build a nonsinkable ship ?
Mr. Franklin. It looks so to-day, from this experience. If you
had asked me that a week ago I would have said no. I would have
said we had them.
Senator Bourne. You gave the minimum cost of the first, second,
and third class passage on the Titanic. What are the maximum
costs ?
Mr. Franklin. That would run up to anything. It depends
entirely upon circumstances and conditions.
Senator Bourne. It depends upon the furnishing of the room, I
suppose ?
Mr. Franklin. A man might want a room and bath and sitting
room for himself and his servant. Another man might come along
and say: *'I want these two rooms and bath and sitting room, and I
want to put five people in them or four people in them.*' Each of the
rooms has two smgle beds in it. It is entirely a question of what
taste each person has and what his requirements are, and what accom-
modations they want in the way of space.
Senator Bourne. And the length of purse would also be a factor?
- Mr. Franklin. We can not determme that. We Uke to get all
we can, of course.
Senator Smith. Before you leave the stand, Mr. Franklin, are you
able to answer whether tliis ship was equipped with searchlights ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think she was. 1 never heard of her being
equipped with searchliglits.
Senator Smith. Is it customary to equip your vessels with search-
lights ?
<t „«,«.. ^,.^ J9
uta^ic disasteb. 201
Mr. Franklin. I never heard of a trans-Atlantic liner being
equipped with searchlights.
Senator, have you cleared up as much as you want to in regard to
this Cedric matter? A good deal has been said about that, and I
think there has been a terrible mistake made, an awful mistake made
there; and I would like to clear it up if you care to go into it further.
Senator Smith. Right now ?
Mr. Franklin. If you wish; yes.
Senator Smith. We will take it up after luncheon, or now.
Senator Bourne. I suggest that the gentleman clear up the matter
on his own statement, stating what he thinks is necessary to do.
Senator Smith. Now ?
Senator Bournb. Let him state where the misunderstanding is and
what he thinks is necessary to clear it up.
Mr. Franklin. Criticism has been seiiously made to the effect that
those messages were sent entirely with tlie idet^ of getting the crew
away, and of Mr. Ismay's also getting away on account of what infor-
mation might come out from tiie crew.
I want to say that that was not in Mr. Ismay's mind. Everybody
realizes the importance of getting these members of the crew away
from tlie country at the earliest possible moment. We were not
sailing a Wliite Star steamer for another week, but we did change the
schedule of the Lavlamd ou Tuesday and sent her to Plymouth to
take the mails. We thought we could get them out by Saturday.
As far as Mr. Ismay personally is concerned, he left his own per-
sonal movements entirely to us.
As far as the crew are concerned, it is the duty of everybody con-
nected with the steamers to get a crew, under such circumstances,
out of the country just as quicxly as it can be done. We have always
tried to do that.
Senator Smith. On that point, have you cabled your London office
anv directions regarding the crew ?
Mr. Franklin. You asked me on Saturday night to get for ydu
the name and address of every man going home on the £aplandf
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Franklin. I told the manager of our steamship department
yesterdav morning there to assure himself that he had that and would
send it down, or to cable over so that it would be gotten before the
ahip gets there. Is that what you are driving at, Senator ?
Senator Smith, That is what I want in the record.
I would also like the statement in the record of your offer to furnish
for this committee any surviving officer, any officer or member of the
crew whom we may desire to examine.
Mr. Franklin. We assure you that we will give you all the infor-
mation you desire, and we will see that anybody under our control
tJhat you desire to appear before you does so appear.
Senator Smith. That is my understanding.
Mr. Franklin. If that is not as strong as you want it
Senator Bourne. That is a voluntary offer on th^ part of the
coinpanv ?
Mr. Franklin. We made that offer to Senator Smith the moment
we saw him at the gang plank of the Carpathia. To the best of iny
knowledge and belief, I told you that we would cooperate with you in
202 TITAKIO DIBA8TEB.
every way, and be very glad to have anybody you wanted appear
before you.
Senator Smith. Then there has been no attempt by your company
or any officer or subordinate of your company to spunt away any
member of the crew or any survivmg officer of the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of mv knowledge and belief, no.
Senator Smith. I think you haa better put into the record your
motive in wanting to get these men out of the country.
Mr. Franklin. Men arriving under these extraordinary circum-
stances, not being on articles, are vei^r difficult, at times, to control,
because a great many people are running after them for stories, and
making them presents, and taking them out in the street. They stray
away, and they get into endless trouble; and they are not controllable
as are seamen and firemen ordinarily from a ship when it is in the
dock under the command of an officer, and everytning of that sort.
It is the duty of every owner or representative of an owner of a
steamship, under similar circumstances, to get those men out of these
temptations, and to get them away to their own homes and their own
people, and where they can go back again and sign on another ship,
ana go to sea.
Senator Smith. Is that the sole motive that you had in wanting to
get them out of the country ?
Mr. Fbankon. That is the only motive I had. I never thought
anything about anything else.
Senator Bourne. In a case like that, if you have a sister ship, or a
ship of the same company, it is used as the home of your employees,
and the method of transporting them to their homes ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. As quickly as we can get them back.
Senator Bourne. That is quite the custom ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. If we have a steamer coming in from the
Mediterranean, and we do not need the crew, we send tnem on some-
body else's line, or get them to Boston; we get them away. We do
not want to have them a minute longer than we have to.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, are these men who are sur-
vivors of the Titanic to be reemployed by your company ?
Mr. Franklin. They wiU certainly be reemployed if they appear for
service.
Senator Smith. Are they still in your service ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; technically speakin£:, they are not, for the
reason that the moment a ship goes down, the men's wages cease.
But we, of course, take care of them.
There is one other thing I would like to say, and that is this: I
t^hink you gentlemen will realize that, under the conditions of this
fearful disaster, no man in the crew could tell any story that could
do us any harm. Here were all the passengers, and everybody else,
who were there, and what difference would it make to us what the
crew said? The worst thing they could say could not remedy the
matter; could not help the matter, in any way, shape or form.
Senator Smith. You consider that anything they might say would
be simply cumulative ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; as far as I am personally concerned, I can
say that I did not care a bit what the members of the crew said.
Senator Fletcher. You said that as soon as the ship went down,
the wages of the men ceased, but that you took care of them. Is
fi .^».^«.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 203
there not an English law that gives them a remedy, and provides for
the payment of so much a week under such circumstances?
Mr. Franklin. I am not clear on that, without looking it up. Wo
have to return them, and do all these things. They would nave to
go to the British consul in regard to that. I could not give you aU
the ramifications on that. The articles end when the ship goes down.
Senator Smith. I will ask you to hold yourself in readiness to
resume the stand after the recess, Mr. Franklin: We will now take a
recess until 3 o'clock.
Whereupon, at 1.30 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until 3
o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The committee met, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 3.15 o'clock
p. m.
The Chairman. Mr. Franklin, will you kindly resume the stand?
Senator Bourne, have you finished ?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
Senator Burton. Mr. Franklin, the Titanic was divided into 15
compartments by transverse partitions, as I understand it ?
Mr. Franklin. Right.
Senator Burton. Is there any way of telling how many of those
different water-tight compartments were opened up by this collision,
or what is your test estimate, if there is no way of tellinff ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think there 'is any way of telling, from
anything I have heard. You may find, in examining the officers —
you might get some information on that subject, but I doubt if you
will; and as far as I am concerned, I do not tliink you can estimate.
I think — it might be a guess — ^five or six.
Senator Burton. That is your best estimate ?
Mr. Franklin. We can show you the general plan of the Olympic,
which would show you those compartments.
Senator Burton. Mr. Franklin, you were quoted in the papers of
the afternoon of Monday as saying there was a sufficient number of
lifeboats on the Titanic to take away all the passengers and crew on
board — did you make any such statement as that ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not remember making any statement of that
kind, because I do not think anybody thought there were enough
lifeboats to move the entire ship's company, passengers and crew, at
the same time — to accommodate them all. Here are the various
compartments [indicating on plan]. Here is a plan of the steamer,
showing the various compartments. How many of those were dam-
aged and how many were admitting water immediately it is impos-
sible for me to rive you the slightest information. Anj'thing I nught
say to you womd simply be a guess.
Senator Burton. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Fletcher. I have just a few questions. When was the
International Mercantile Marine Co, organized ?
Mr. Franklin. 1902, sir.
Senator Fletcher. A foreign corporation ?
Mr. Franklin. The International Mercantile Marine Co. is a New
Jersey corporation.
204 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. You have held the position of vice president,
then, since it was organized ?
Mr. Franklin. Not immediatel}'. My recollection is about six or
seven months after the organization was completed.
Senator Fletcher. Prior to that time w^ere you connected with
any shipping interests ?
Mr. Franklin. I was connected with the Atlantic Transport Line,
which is a subsidiary company of the International Mercantile Ma-
rine Co.
Senator Fletcher. Your position is the highest office in that com-
pany in America ?
Mr. Franklin. In America; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Mr: Ismay's official relation is what?
Mr. Franklin. He is president of that company.
Senator Fletcher. He is managing director, also, of the White
Star Line ?
Mr. Franklin, Of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co., which is the
White Star Line.
Senator Fletcher. This position of managing director is one
which rather combines both the duties of a president and also a
general manager of a corporation, does it not ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir; he is the head of that particular corpora-
tion, absolutely.
Senator Fletcher. So that he was the highest official of that cor-
poration on board the Titanic at the time she went down ?
Mr. Franklin. Right, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you know when it was intended to have
the Titanic arrive at New i ork ?
Mr. Franklin. I had not the sHghtest idea. I never had any
advices on when the Titanic was expected to arrive in New York.
Senator Fletcher. Your office had no communication, then,
with respect to the time it was expected the Titanic would arrive ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You heard nothing either from Belfast or
from Southampton ?
Mr. Franklin. From nobody.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether or not the Titanic
reported from time to time during the progress of the voyage to
Southampton or Belfast ?
Mr. Franklin. That I could not tell you. I would have no
knowledge of that whatsoever.
Senator Fletcher. Would that be customary ?
Mr. Franklin. She might report for the first day out to South-
ampton or Liverpool just where she was, as a matter of form.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether the Olympic, for
instance, reports on such a voyage as that ?
Mr. Franklin. As a rule the steamers do not report except as they
are arriving. After they have left the port, as a rule, they do not
make any further reports. It is only with a view of being able to
advise the friends of passengers, and so forth, regarding the meeting
of the ship that that is done.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know why the communication that
was sent in to Cape Race was sent there rather than direct to your
oflBce in New York ?
i* — ^-..^^-^ fy
TITANIC DISASTER, 205
Mr. FRANKI.IN. For a long time these communications have been
?<nt to the telegraph companies themselves with a view of that being
the quickest way to send that information throughout to those who
ire interested, and report it to the papers, and the maritime ex-
eh&nges, and so forth. A little later on frequently we get information,
when the ship approaches Nantucket, for the sake of argument, or
Siiisconsett. We might then get a telegram ourselves from the cap-
uin saying he is in such and such a position and expects to arrive at
Sandy Hook at such and such a time, so that we can make arrange-
ments for receiving them at the dock and notify the friends of pas-
sengers. It is a pure matter of form; it is a routine business.
Senator Fletcher. As I understand, about 20 minutes before 2 on
Monday morning the reporter rang you up, and said that they had
heard the Titanic was smking, and this came through the steamship
Vimnian — that information ?
Jlr. Franklin. That was reportd to me at that time.
Senator Fletcher. Via Montreal ?
ih". Franklin. So it was reported to me.
Senator Fletcher. Can you recall how long after tliat before you
vou had confirmation of that report ?
Mr. Franklin. As I say, I immediately got tlxe dock. Then I at
once got the Associated Press, who confirmed the report. Then I got
Montreal on the telephone, and I would say in about an hour, or
probably three-quarters of an hour, they confirmed that information
over the telephone.
Senator Fletcher. What line did the Olympic belong to ?
Mr. Franklin. The Olympic belonged to the Wliite Star Line.
Senator Fletcher. And the Virginian?
Mr. Franklin. The Vir(finian belongs to the Allen Line.
Senator Fletcher. That is a competing line ?
Mr. Franklin. That is a competing line. When I say a ''com-
peting line," all trans-Atlantic lines are more or less competing, but it
IS a line running between Canada and England, as a general proposi-
tion. Some steamers go to Boston.
Senator Fletcher. And the BaMcf
Mr. Franklin. The BaMc is a steamer owned by the White Star
Line, the same line. The Baltic was bound east and had passed the
scene of the disaster.
Senator Fletcher. You spoke of your marine superintendent this
nioming, but you did not name him or give his address. Can vou do
that ?
ifr. Franklin. That was in connection witli the board of trade
iaspection, and the marine superintendent, who would have had
charge of the board of trade inspection of this ship, would be the man
located in Southampton, and his name is Capt. Steele.
Senator Fletcher. And the home office or the White Star Line is
where?
Mr. Franklin. In Liverpool.
Senator Fletcher. The Titanic was registered where ?
Mr. Franklin. I think she was registered in Liverpool.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Newlands. Mr. Franklin, how did the speed of the Titanic
compare with that of the Lusitania and the Mauretaniaf
<t _^_.^ ^ >9
206 TITANIC DISASTEB,
Mr. Franklin. The speed of the Titanic, as I understand she was
running, was between 3 and 4 miles less than the speed of the Maure-
tania and the Lusitania,
Senator Newlands. Less than the maximum speed ?
Mr. Franklin. Less than some of their average voyages^ I am
taking it, and it was never thought by anybody that the Titanic
would anything like equal tlie speed of tne mauretania and the Lttsi-
tania; it was never expected by anyone.
Senator Newlands. She had not been put up to her maximum
speed on this occasion ?
Mr. Franklin. My understanding is she had never been run at
her maximum speed.
Senator Newlands. What is the customary speed of these fast
steamers in going through fog ?
Mr. Franklin. That is entirely under the control and the jurisdic-
tion of the captain, and it is one man's opinion against another man's.
It is what the captain of the steamer at the time thinks a prudent
speed, considering the density of the fog, and so forth, and anything
else he has to govern him.
Senator Newlands. No rules regarding these matters are laid down
by the steamship companies t
Mr. Franklin. Yes; the steamship companies have very stringent
rules. I think the fairest thing is to read off the White Star rule
covering just that sort of a point.
Senator Newlands. Do you have rules covering the question of
ice as well as fog?
Mr. Franklin. It covers everything that the commander thinks
is in any way hazardous. It is a general rule.
Senator Newlands. Read the rule.
Mr. Franklin. It is rule 101, Mr. Burlingham says. It is as
follows:
Commanders must distinctly understand that the issue of these r^ulations does
not in any way relieve them from the responsibility for the safe and emcient naviga-
tion of their respective vessels, and they are also enjoined to remember that they
must run no risk which might by any possibility result in accident to their ship. It is
to be hoped that they will ever bear in mind that the safety of the lives and property
intrustea to their cafe is the ruling principle that should govern them in the naviga-
tion of their vessels and that no supposed gaining of expedition or saying of time on
the voyage is to be purchased at the nsK of accidents. The company desires to maintain
for itfi vessels a reputation for safety and only looks for such speed on the various
voyages as is consistent with safe and prudent navigation. Commanders are reminded
that the steamers are to a great extent uninsured and that their only livelihood, as
well as the company's, depends upon immunity from accident. No precaution
which insures safe navigation is to be considered excessive.
Adding to that, I would like to say that I do not believe there is
any company crossing the Atlantic that carries such a large propor-
tion of its own insurance as the subsidiary companies of the Interna-
tional Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Newlands. It is not unusual to have fog the larger part of
the way, across the ocean, is it?
Mr. Franklin. Well, I would say that it would be most unusual
to have it the larger part of the way. They may have it for a day or
two.
Senator Newlands. For a day or two ?
Mr. Franklin. Something like that, or possibly longer.
it ..«».^,*^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 207
Senator Newlands. Do you know what the custom of these fast
ships is when going through fog ?
Mr. Franklin. Again, the only thing I can say to that is that it
depends upon the commander; it depends upon the man himself
and the condition of the fog. I have no accurate information at all
on that subject. It is not a matter that comes under our jurisdiction,
or a matter that we, who are not the operating people, go into in
deUdl. But they taKe every possible precaution that they think is
necessary, and none of our commanders, I am sure, from all th&
conversations and so on that I have had with them, ever have any
idea that the company wants records made.
Senator Newlands. What is your view from your experience on
these ocean trips; is it not the fact that on these fast steamers every
trip through fog involves considerable risk ?
Mr. Franklin. Of course there is not any doubt that whenever you
are in fog there is more or less risk — a fog or a snowstorm — but never-
theless with the ocean tracks that are used, all ships going one way
using one track and all ships coming the other way using the other
track, and with the wireless telling exactly where on the sea the larger
ships are, that risk has been reduced.
Senator Newlands. The dangers that are to be encountered are the
danger of collision and the danger of icebergs ?
ifi". Franklin. The danger of collision and the danger of icebergs.
Senator Newlands. The danger of icebergs, of course, is the more
infrequent condition ?
Mr. Franklin. The more infrequent, and of course it is difficult to
say about that, because you may have a sailing vessel or something
of that kind crossing the track.
Senator Smith. This morning you spoke of the firm of Ismay &
Imrie. Do you know what firm that is ?
ifr. Franklin. It was the managing firm of the White Star'Line,
and when the business of the White Star Line was purchased the busi-
ness of Messrs. Ismay & Imrie as managers was also included in the
purchase, and now you might call it a trade name as much as anything
else. It is an empty shell as it stands to-day.
Senator Smith. Tliere is no corporate organization ?
ifr. Franklin. I don't think so; I think it is a firm, a copartner-
ship.
Senator Smith. What was their business ?
^. Franklin. They were the agents and managers of the White
Star Line.
Senator Bourne. Was the White Star Line ever a corporation, or
has it always been Just a name, a designation ?
Mr. Franklin. The White Star Line might be compared in that
respect to the Pennsylvania Railroad. The Pennsylvania Railroad
is nothing but a trade name
Senator Bourne. And the White Star was only a trade name ?
Mr. Franklin. A trade name; yes.
Senator Bourne. You made some mention of the eastward track
and the westward track for ships going east and west.
Mr. Franklin. I did.
Senator Bourne. What is the width in miles of the tracks ?
Mr. Franklin. The distance apart ?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
it ^.^ ff
208 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Franklin. I think it is about 60 miles.
Senator Bourne. Sixty miles is allowed as the width of each track 1
Mr. Franklin. The tracks are 60 miles apart, and you are supposed
to stay on the track.
Senator Bourne. That is under agreement between the different
conipanies ?
Mr. Franklin. That was a matter that was submitted to aU the
experts of all the different companies, considered by all the different
companies, and agreed upon after having taken the very best advice
upon the situation they could.
Senator Bourne. And the Titanic was in her proper track?
Mr. Franklin. The Titanic was in her proper track, and the cap-
tain of the Carpathia testified that the Titanic was in tJie exact posi-
tion that she ought to have been on the track.
Senator Bourne. Do none of the trans-Atlantic liners carry a
searchlight ?
Mr. Franklin. I have never heard of it.
Senator Bourne. Do you not think it would be an improvement if
they did, in view of the experience they have had ?
Mr. Franklin. Well, I do not know. If it was up to me, I would
rather get the advice of the technical jpeople; I would rather ask the
marine superintendents and the captains. 1 do not know just where
it could be located to advantage. The idea always is not to have the
light shining forward, because we have on each ship, as this ship had,
t&ee officers on the bridge, each one of which has an officer's certifi-
cate, a master's certificate.
Senator Bourne. They could not pierce the darkness of the fog-
Mr. Franklin. I say you would have, to be careful where you
should locate such a light so as not to prevent the officers on watch
from seeuig ahead. That is a matter of investigation and practical
people ou^t to give you that.
Senator Bourne. Trtie steamer was going about 21 knots at the
time ?
Mr. Franklin. All I know about it is what I have heard. I have
no information on that at all.
Senator Bourne. Going at such a speed, have they any evidence
as to the time required to stop her?
Mr. Franklin. They have that.
Senator Bourne. In what distance could she be stopped ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not tell you that, but the builders could
give you all that.
Senator Smith. In making your answer to my inquiry this morning
regarding the telegraphic and wireless communication between your-
seB and the officers oi your ship and the officers of other ships and the
passengera and crews of other ships, did your answer include all cable
messages as well as cablegrams and wireless messages ?
Mr. Franklin. We did not send any cable message asking for any
information or anything of that kind regarding the position of any
ship or anybody on any ship.
Senator Smith. Did you send any relating to this matter at all ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To whom 1
Mr. Franklin. To Liverpool. We sent them various cables.
Senator Smith. And you have copies of them?
'* TITANIC '' DISASTER. 209
Mr. Frankun. Yes, sir. I will put them in as a whole or read
them off, whichever you like.
Senator Smith. An right; you may file these messages with the
reoorter, unless there is some one which you desire to explain.
Mr. Franklin. Tbere is nothing here that there is anything we
eould do to explain. They are only advising them of whatever we
hid; that is really all they are. lou might glance through them
and see if anything strikes you. /
Senator Smith. Senator Bourne, \^'ill you kindly examine those
papers to see if there is anything important in them [handing papers
to Senator Bourne]. That will be all at the present time, ilr. Frank-
lin, and you may hold yourself subject to the orders of the committee.
TEsnMomr of Joseph gsoles boxhali.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Boxhall. Hull, England.
Senator Smith. What is your vocation ?
Mr. Boxhall. Mariner.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Boxhall. Twenty-eight years old.
Senator Smith. What experience have you had in marine
employment ?
Mr. Boxhall. Thirteen years' experience at sea.
Seiiator Smith. Of what has your experience consisted ?
ilr. Boxhall. Tlie first four years as an apprentice and the remain-
der of the time as an officer.
Senator Smith. On what ships ?
ilr. Boxhall. I served in William Thomas's in Liverpool, and was
then an ofl&cer on the Wilson Line of Hull; and after that on the White
Sur Line.
Senator Smith. How long have you been with the White Star Line?
Mr. Boxhall. Five years next November.
Senator Smith. In what capacity have you served ?
llr. Boxhall. As junior omcer.
Senator Smith. All of the time?
Mr. Boxhall. All of the time while on the White Star Line.
Senator Smith. Were you especially educated in marine service
before you entered the employ of the companies you have named?
Mr. fioxHALL. Yes. I had. 12 months' training in a navigation
fichool.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Boxhall. In Hull, England.
Senator Smith. What did that training consist of ?
Mr. Boxhall. Navigation and nautic^ astronomy.
Senator Smith. Please state for the information of the committee
wKat positions you have filled on the White Star Line. Please state
that again.
Mr. Boxhall. As junior officer, ranking as fifth and sixth officer,
And third officer; and then as fourth officer on the last ship.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee, so that our records may be
complete, the duties performed in each of these different employ-
ments.
(t ^^^.^^^^ ff
210 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. BoxHALL. To generally assist the senior officer of the watch in
all cases.
Senator Smith. When was this duty assigned to you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. When the Titanic left Belfast Lough. His duty is
assigned to a man when he is assigned to his ship, and he grows up
with it.' He learns the different duties he has to perform in whatever
Tank he is on board ship.
Senator Smith. Did you join the ship at Belfast Lough ?
Ml*. BoxHALL. Yes; at Belfast.
Senator Smith. Were you with her when the training tests were
made?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you tell the committee of what those tests
consisted ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because I do not know what those tests were for.
There were the builder's men on board, and I was just there to keep a
lookout and do anything I was told to do.
Senator Smith. Were you on board during the maneuvers of this
ship in Belfast Lough ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. On what deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. On the bridge deck.
Senator Smith. On the bridge ?
Mx. Boxhall. When on duty; yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know how much time was spent in those
maneuvers, turning and in a straight course, the day these tests were
made ?
Mr. Boxhall. I can tell you, approximately.
Senator Smith. Do so.
Mr. Boxhall. We left Belfast about noon, and we steamed
Senator Smith. On what day ?
Mr. Boxhall. I have forgotten the date.
Senator Smith. The 4th of April or the 5th or 6th of April ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know, sir. I would tell you if 1 knew.
Senator Smith. Or the day of the week ?
Mr. Boxhall. It was on a Tuesday.
Senator SMrra. Go ahead.
lifr. Boxhall. And we steamed until about between 7 and 8
o'clock at night. We finally left Belfast about 8 o'clock at night.
Senator Smith. Where were you headed for ?
Mi. Boxhall. For Southampton.
.Senator Smith. What time aid you reach Southampton?
Mi. Boxhall. Thursday about midnight.
Senator Smith. What was the condition of the weather on your
trip from Belfast to Southampton ?
Mr. Boxhall. The weather was fine until about 2 o'clock in the
morning.
Senator Smith. Of what day ?
Mr. Boxhall. Thursday; I should say Wednesday morning, until
about 2 o'clock. I want to correct that.
Senator Smith. What happened then; that is, how did you distin-
guish between the conditions of the weather ?
n ..«.». ^* ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 211
Mr. BoxHALL. When I came on duty at 4 o'clock in the morning
it was foggy.
Senator Smith. Was there any sea ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; there was practically no sea, and little wind.
Senator Smith. And when you say that the weather was not good
you mean that it was foggy ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. All the way ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; it cleared up about 6 o'clock in the morning.
Senator Smith. When you went on at 4 o'clock it was foggy?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. And the fog Ufted about 6 o'clock ?
Mj. Boxhall. About 6.
Senator Smith. And you proceeded to Southampton without any
change in the weather ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; without any change in the weather.
Senator Smith. And the water, the sea
Mr. Boxhall. Was smooth all the way.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you reached Southampton %
Mr. Boxhall. I kept my usual watch on board the ship. I really
do not remember what watch I did keep until the time of sailing.
Senator Smith. You did not leave the ship ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes; oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Wliere did you go when you left the ship ?
Mr. Boxhall. Well, I went around the town. I went ashore.
Senator Smith. After your watch ?
Mr. Boxhall. When my watch was over.
Senator Smith. And when did you return to the Titanic j with ref-
erence to the hour of her departure ?
Mr. Boxhall. The last tune I was ashore I returned the night
previous to sailing, about 11 o'clock, I suppose.
Senator Smith. Were there others with you at that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Other oflB.cers or crew 1
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smfth. In the performance of your duty while at South-
ampton did you have any authority over the men; and if so, over
whom?
Mr. Boxhall. When I was on duty on board a ship whilst at South-
ampton during the daytime there was always a senior officer along
witn me; so that any questions that were to be asked could be
answered by him, or ii anything was to be found out I would always
refer to him, to the senior officer. At nighttime the two junior officers
were in charge of the ship, with men on watch with them.
Senator Smith. You say there was always a senior officer on duty %
Mr. Boxhall. And a junior officer in port.
Senator Smith. But you did not give any orders
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Because there were senior officers on board all the
time up to the time of sailing ? Who were those officers ?
Mr. boxHALL. Sometimes the first, sometimes the chief, and some-
times the second.
Senator Smith. Who was the first officer ?
212 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. Mr. LightoUer was the first officer until the day
before the ship sailed.
Senator Smith. Who became first officer then ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Had he been first officer before ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; he had been chief officer.
Senator Smith. But he superseded Mr. Lightoller the night before
sailing ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At the time of departure Mr. Murdock was first
officer ?
Mr. Boxhall. That is so.
Senator Smith. What were his duties ?
Mr. Boxhall. His duties were, as officer of the watch, to keep a
lookout for the ship and see that the junior officers did whatever he
required to carry out the captain's orders.
Mr. Smith. Was it a part of his duty to have drills and inspections ?
Mr. Boxhall. No. The captain arranged all the drills and
inspections.
Senator Smith. Wore there any drills or inspections to your knowl-
edge from the time the ship landed at Southampton until her depar-
ture?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; there were inspections and drills the morning
of sailing.
Senator Smith. Of what did they consist %
Mr. Boxhall. The crew were mustered and when the names were
called the boats were lowered in the presence of the board of trade
survevoi-s.
Senator Smith. When you say ^'boats,'^ you refer to lifeboats?
Mr. Boxhall. The lifeooats were lowered in the presence of the
board of trade surveyors.
Senator Smith. Tfiis occurred the day you sailed ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; within an hour or a couple of hours of the
ship's sailing.
Senator Smith. Can you recall just who was present at that inspec-
tion?
Mr. Boxhall. The captain, all the officers, the marine superin-
tendent, and the board of trade surveyors, and the board of trade
doctor.
Senator Smith. Was there anyone else present ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not that I know of — not an official.
Senator Smith. Were any of the officers or directors of the company
present besides the ones you have named ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say; I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Ismay present?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Were all the lifeboats lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Why not ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because they do not require all the boats to be low-
ered so far as I know.
Senator Smith. The regulations do not require it ? How many
boats were lowered ?
n .-.-.. «^^ ff
TITAKIO DI8ABTEB. 21ft
Mr. BoxHALL. Two boats were lowered, I believe.
Senator Smith. One on each side.
Mr. BoxHALL. No; they could not lower them on each side. The
ship was laid alongside of the quay.
^nator Smith. So they were lowered on one side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Which side; the starboard or the port?
Mr. BoxHALL. On the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Can you give the numbers of those lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I can not.
Senator Smith. In lowering these lifeboats, did the gear work
satisfactorily I
Mr. BoxHALL. As far as I know. I was not there when they were
lowered.
Senator Smith. You were not there 1
Mr. BoxHAix. No; I was in another part of the ship.
Senator Smith. And you did not yourself see them lowered ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw them in the water, but I was not actually
on the spot when they were lowered.
Senator Smith. In lowering the Ufeboats, can you tell us just
what was done.
Mr. Boxhall. First the boat had to be cleared. After the boats
are cleared the chocks are knocked down, or dropped down by
patent levers, and the boat is hanging free. Then the davits are
screwed out and the boat is suspenoed over the ship's side all ready
for lowering away.
Senatoi Smith. Assuming that these Ufeboats are on the boat
deck, how far would they be swung off the side before they reached
their proper position for lowering ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Far enough to clear the ship's side, right away
down, and allow the boat to touch the water.
Senator Smith. The boat deck or sun deck is narrower thto the
A deck or B deck, is it not ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; oh, no.
Senator Smith. No narrower ?
Mr. Boxhall. No narrower. I never noticed it to be narrower.
Senator Smith. The same width ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; it all seems to me to be the same width.
Senator Smith. But these lifeboats are swung out
Mr. Boxhall. Absolutely clear of the ship's side.
Senator Smith. Absolutely clear of the ship's side — how far?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say bow far.
Senator Smith. Before they are swung out, are they supposed to
be occupied (
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senatoi Smith. In case of trouble ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; oh, no.
Senator Smith. After they are swung out are they supposed to be
loaded from the boat deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. That is a matter of opinion.
Senator Smith. If possible, and other things being equal, is that
the usual course ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes : I think it is.
40475-PT 3—12 4
214 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. In other words, they are not suspended, then run
to the decks below, and there filled ?
Mr. BoxHALL. We always lower the boat to the level of the rail or
the level of the deck, so the people can step in.
Senator Smith. Yes; but to the level of the deck, where it is swung
out?
Mr. BoxHALL. Where it is swung out.
Senator Smith. So that the upper deck or boat deck is really the
loading deck for the lifeboats unaer ordinary circumstances ?
Mr. BOXHALL. Yes.
. Senator Smith. Did you say whether the Ufeboats that you saw
lowered were lowered promptly and without any interference ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not see them lowered. I saw them when they
were in the water.
Senator Smith. Did you see them when they were brought back to
the deck ?
Mr. . BoxHALL. I afterwards saw them on the voyage. I was not
standing there when they were raised.
Senator Smith. You did not see them when they were raised to the
deck ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not see them lowered ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No ; I did not see them lowered.
Senator Smith. Who was officer of the watch that day ?
Mr. Boxhall. All officers; all officers were on duty.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Murdock there at this time ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; and Mr. Wevl, the chief officer.
Senator Smith. Were there any lifeboats on the Titanic that were
not securely fastened in position to be lowered in the ordinary method
of attaching that equipment ?
Mr. Boxhall. An tne boats on the Titanic seemed to me to be in a
very good position to be lowered.
Senator Smith. How many were there ?
Mr. Boxhall. There were 14 lifeboats, 2 sea boats, and 4 collaps-
ible boats.
Senator Smith. The Ufeboats were in position ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they appear to be new?
Mr. Boxhall. Thev were new.
Senator Smith. Did you notice whether the name Titanic was upon
every boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; on every boat. I will not swear to the col-
lapsible boats.
Senator Smith. What are the three types of boat that you have
just referred to ?
Mr. Boxhall. First of all, the lifeboats; then the two sea boats
Senator Smith. One moment. Take the lifeboats. Were they in
good condition ?
Mr. Boxhall. Perfectly good.
Senator Smith. How many people, under ordinary circumstances,
would a lifeboat of the size earned on the Titanic carry in such
weather as you experienced ?
Mr Boxhall. Tney were supposed to carry 65 persons.
(t f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 216
Senator Sbuth. Why do vou say they were supposed to carry 65 ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The board of trade testify to that.
Senator Smith. Is that a part of the certificate of the British Board
of Trade «
Mr. BoXHALL. I suppose that is a part of the regulations. The
cubical capacity is on tne boats.
Senator Smith. How many seats are there in a lifeboat of that
character %
Mr. BoxHALL. I am sure I could not say. I never have counted
them.
Senator Smith. How many oars are there ?
Mr. BoxHAix. I really forget how many oars there were, but there
are always two extra ones; there are always two extra oars in the
boat.
Senator Smith. Can you not think how many there were ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I can not think: because I can not remember
how many thole pins there were.
Senator Smith, Where were the oars, generally ? Under the seats %
Mr. BoxHALL. On the top of the seats.
Senator Smith. On top oi the seats; and you say there were always
two extra oars?
Mr. BoxHALL. Always two extra oars in the boats.
Senator Smith. But the complement you do not know? You can
not say what that was ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I reaUy can not.
Senator Smith. What else is reauired in those lifeboats, under the
regulations of the British Board or Trade ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Boat hooks, water, water breakers, bread tanl^,
dippers for the water breakers, balers for the boats, mast and sail,
compass — I think that is all.
Senator Smith. Lights ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes — lights and a can of oil ; a lamp and a can
of oil.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether these articles required under
the r^ulations of the British Board of Trade were in each of these
lifeboats cls required ?
Mr. BoxHALL. All the gear was in the boats when we left Bel-
fast; I know that. All the gear was in the boats, because I went
around
Senator Smith. Provisions and water ?
lib*. BoxHALL. Everything that the board of trade requires was
in the boats in Belfast.
Senator Smith. In Belfast ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether these provisions were in the
boats when the Titanic left Southampton ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say. The provisions were, I know,
because the provisions are built in with the boat. They are in a tank
that is built m the boat.
Senator Smith. You are speaking now of your own knowledge?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you ever in one of these lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Prior to the collision ?
t< ..^-..«*,^ fy
216 TITAKIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. Not in the water in one ; I was not in the water with
the boats.
Senator Smith. Where were you in the J&oats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. In Belfast, going through them to see that all the
equipment was complete.
Senator Smith. You made an inspection ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you desire the committee to understand that
all of the reauirements with reference to the equipment of lifeboats
was in these Tboats when the Titanic left Belfast?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I do not know about when she left Belfast, but
it was two or three days before we left that I went through these boats*
and saw all the equipment complete.
Senator Smith. Mr. Boxhall, you described a few moments ago the
weather from Belfast to Southampton. Did the weather continue
pleasant and the sea unruffled during the voyage from Southampton
to the place of this catastrophe ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. In such weather how many people would a lifeboat
such as you have described carry safely ?
Mr. Boxhall. That I would not like to say.
Senator Smith. You would not like to say because you do not know.
Mr. Boxhall. No; a lot depends on the people who get in the
boats.
Senator Smith. And their condition of mind ?
Mr. Boxhall. And their condition of mind.
Senator Smith. Assuming that they were in great peril and sub-
missive to the directions of those in cnarge of the boats, how many
would one of those lifeboats safelv carry ?
Mr. Boxhall. I should think that providing they did as they were
told, they would carry the 65, the comjplement.
Senator Smith. Sixty-five comfortably ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; the complement, I said of 65.
Senator Smith. What about the collapsible boats ?
Mr. Boxhall. I know very little of the collapsible boats. I do not
know what they are supposed to hold.
Senator Smith. You nave seen them?
Mr. Boxhall. I have seen them; yes.
Senator Smfth. I wish you would describe, that we may have the
record complete, what they are made of; how they are constructed.
Mr. Boxhall. The lower part of the boat is wood, and these boats
when they are loaded do not seem to me to have very much freeboard
except for the canvas which is pulled up before these boats are
lowered.
Senator SMrrn. Is this framework fitted into the canvas, or the
canvas to the framework ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; it is the bottom of the boat, and it is rather a
shallow boat with a canvas top to it which pulls up and forms a kind
of protection around the people sitting in the boat.
Senator Smith. From what point in the boat's construction does
this canvas appear; from the extreme upper part?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I think it is from the extreme upper part, from
what I remember of them. I never have been in one.
'' TITANIO " DISASTER. 217
Senator Smith. But the canvas is not intended to float the boat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, no; oh, no.
Senator Smith. How does it differ from the lifeboat in its security
and strength ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not quite understand what you mean.
Senator Smith. Do you regard the collapsible boat as safe,
well constructed, and suitable as the ordinary lifeboat for the pur-
poses for which they are intended ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not think it would stand so much knocking
about as a lifeboat. I do not know what they would behave hke in a
seaway.
Senator Smith. Do you think that they are as well suited to
resist the sea?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I should not think so.
Senator Smith. Then, according to your judgment, they do not
exactly answer the same purpose and requirement as the lifeboats t
Mr. BoxHALL. I can not say from experi^iGe, but I do not think
that they would stand the weather or tne knocking about as a life-
boat would in a seaway.
Senator Smith. Are they as easily lowered and kept in position ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I do not think so. I prefer tne lifeboats.
Senator Smith. Are they as accessible to people in peril on ship-
board as the lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It depends upon in what position they are kept.
Senator Smith. Where are tney kept ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The ones on the Titanic — there was one of them
exactly underneath the sea boat's davits on either side, on the same
level on the boat deck as the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. And as securely fastened to the davits ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; she was not securely fastened to the davits.
She was not fastened to the davits at sM, After the sea boats were
lowered, then would come the collapsible boats.
Senator Smith. Where were they ? Were they lying about on the
deck?
Mr. BoxHALL. They were on the deck.
Senator Smith. Unattached ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Unattached — unattached to the davits.
Senator Smith. How many of these boats were there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Four.
Senator Smith. You described another type of boat. What is
that?
Mr. BoxHALL. The sea boats or emergency boats.
Senator Smith. What kind of a boat is that ?
Mr. Boxhall. It is the same as a lifeboat, only smaller and lighter
built. It is always kept swung out.
Senator Smith. Is it built in the same general manner ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just so.
Senator Smith. And of the same material as the lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. Of the same material, but smaller.
Senator Smith. Smaller?
Mr. Boxhall. Smaller.
Senator Smith. How much smaller ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say how much smaller. I do not know
the size.
218 TITANIC DISASTEE:
Senator Smith. Give us your best judgment about it.
Mr. BoxHALL. It is a boat that is built to be swim^ out all the time,
the emergency boat, so that it can be lowered quicluy at a moment's
notice in case anyone falls over the side.
Senator Smith. Is it a boat between the size of an ordinary row-
boat and a lifeboat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It is considerably larger than an ordinary rowboat.
Senator Smith. Oh, yes; I understand that.
• Mr. Boxhall. It is a good, seaworthy boat.
Senator Smith. How many people will one of those boats hold ?
Mr. Boxhall. I should say about between 25 and 30; probably 30
at the most.
Senator SMrrn. Thirty at the most ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; tnat is approximate.
Senator Smith. Are these boats equipped in the same manner as
the lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; just the same.
Senator Smith. And all under the regulations of the British Board
of Trade ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. As to inspection and equipment ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Mr. Boxhall, these were all the lifeboats and these
were the three types on the TUanicf
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. When she sailed ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just so.
Senator Smith. How many people will the collapsible boat cany t
Mr. BoxJALL. I could not say.
Senator Smith. About how many ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know; I would not say; I would not like
to form an opinion.
Senator Smith. Why is it called collapsible ? Can it fold up ?
Mr. Boxhall. The upper structure oi the boat is collapsible.
Senator Smith. But the lower part is
Mr. Boxhall. The lower part is the bottom of the boat.
Senator Smith. Can you not tell us about how many people those
boats will hold ?
Mr. Boxhall. They seemed to be pretty well packed, those that
came alongside of the Carvathia, I did not count the people, but
there seemed to be quite a lot of people. I should think they would
hold more than one of the emergency boats, or about the same
number.
Senator Smith. Which one of these three types of boats were you
in?
Mr. Boxhall. The emergency boat.
Senator SMrrn. The emergency boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Officer Murdock, Officer LightoUer,
Officer Lowe, and Officer Pitman aboard the Titanic, t
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The day this inspection was made ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
< 4 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 219
Senator Smith. Can you state whether they were all present at
that time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. All the officers were on board the ship doing various
duties. I can not say whether they were present when these boats
were lowered; but they were all there on board.
Senator Smith. So far as you know did each perform his particular
duty ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. After leaving Southampton until the catastrophe
occurred?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the habits of these men ?
1^. BoxHALL. Only what I have seen since I joined the ship. I
had never seen them before, except Mr. Lightoller.
Senator Smith. And what can you say as to their habits ?
Mr. Boxhall. Grood, steady, reliable men.
Senator Smith. What about your own habits ?
Mr. Boxhall. You had better ask some one else.
Senator Smith. You must be cognizant of your own habits.
Mr. Boxhall. Pardon me.
Senator Smith. You may be too modest to describe them, but you
know whether you are a temperate man or not.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Are you ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes. ^
Senator Smith. Are you a man of family ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Between Southampton and the place where the
Titanic sank were you frequently thrown in contact with your
superior officers ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain frequently ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Had you sailed with him before ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; never.
Senator Smith. Did your duties necessitate your being near his
customary place on the ship ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, did you render any service at
any time from the bridge? Did you have the right to go on the
bndge?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Was it your duty to go there ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; it was my duty. When I was on watch I was
always on the bridge — on the bridge or inside of chart room.
Senator Smith. How often did you see the captain between
Southampton and the place where tne ship sank ?
Mr. Boxhall. Whenever I was on duty I saw him. ^
Senator Smith. And you were on duty how much of the time ?
Mr. Boxhall. Every other four hours after we left Southampton.
Senator Smith. Every other four hours after you left South-
ampton?
Mr. Boxhall. Every other four hours.
920 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. When did you go on duty Sunday ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. The oay of the accident ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. Where was your station ?
Mr. Boxhall. I had no particular station.
Senator Smith. Upon what deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. On the bridge deck.
Senator Smith. Were you on the bridge deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where is the bridge deck with reference to the boat
deck and the A deck and the B deck ?
Air. Boxhall. The bridge deck and the boat deck are all one.
Senator Smith. All oneT
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. The boat deck extended forward ?
Mr. Boxhall. It was all one deck.
Senator Smith. It completes the bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say you went on watch, and that was your
post Sunday evenii^ at wnat hour ?
Mr. Boxhall. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. Eight p. m. ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you were required to remam how long ?
Mr. Boxhall. Until midnight.
Senator Smith. Did you spend all of that time that night at your
post, on duty ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Sbhth. Were you on the bridge all that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What proportion of that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. Most of the time I was on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Most of the time ?
Mr. Boxhall. The greater part of the watch.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the customary officers were
at their posts of duty at the forward end of that boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. They were, sir.
Senator Smith. During your watch ?
Mr. Boxhall. They were.
Senator Smith. Give their names, if you can, and just what th^
service consisted of.
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Lightoller was on the bridge when I went up
there along with the sixth officer at 8 o'clock — along with Sixtn
Officer Moody.
Senator Smith. A little louder, pleaae.
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Lightoller was on watch on the bridge when I
went on watch at 8 o'clock with Sixth Officer Moody. Mr. lightoller
was relieved at 10 o'clock by Mr. Murdock. Mr. Murdock was on
watch until the accident happened.
Senator Smith. Who else was forward on that deck or on the
bridge?
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Moodv, the sixth officer.
( i — » .^^^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTBB. 221
Senator Smith. Where is the crow's nest with reference to the
bridge ?
Mr. BoxHALX. The crow's nest is up the foremast.
Senator Smith. How far forward oi the bri^e ?
Mr. BoxsALL. I should say about 120 feet.
Senator Smith. How high above the bridge ?
Mr. BoxHAix. I could not say what height it was, but the plan
wiD give it to you there.
Senator Smtth. Can you not say approximately ?
Mr. BoxHAix. No; I would not hke to say.
Senator Smith. What is the crow's nest ?
Mr. BoxHAXL. The crow's nest is the lookout box.
Senator Smith. How high up on the masthead ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Is it a part of the mast ?
&Ir. BoxHALX.. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who occupied the crow's nest during your watch
Sunday night?
Mr. BoxHALL. The lookout man.
Senator Bubton. What is that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The lookout men.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Fleet and Leigh were the lookout men at the time
of the accident. I can not say who were the lookout men before 10
o'clock.
Senator Bukton. How do you spell that first name ?
Mr. BoxHALL. F-1-e-e-t.
Senator Bourne. How do you spell Leigh ?
Mr. BoxHALX,. L-e-i-g-h.
Senator Smith. Two men were at the crow's nest ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see them there ?
Mr. Boxhall. You could not see them from the bridge.
Senator Smith. How do vou know they were there ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because tney answered the bells from the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did they both answer the bells %
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. How do you know they both answered ?
Mr. Boxhall. You can hear them.
Senator Smith. How can you distinguish between one answer and
the other ?
Mr. Boxhall. Different voices.
Senator Smith. And from that you are satisfied that they were
both at their posts !
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who was on the lookout? Who was on the look-
out, if anyone, besides these two men ?
Mr. Boxhall. On the bridge.
Senator Smith. Yes; on the bridge.
Mr. Boxhall. The first oflBcer.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; Mr. Murdock.
S^ator Smith. Anyone else ?
it -..^.^•.■>« »f
920 TITANIO DI8ASTBB.
Senator Smith. When did you go on duty Sunday ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. The day of the accident ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. Where was your station ?
Mr. Boxhall. I had no particular station.
Senator Smith. Upon what deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. On the bridge deck.
Senator Smith. Were you on the bridge deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where is the bridge deck with reference to the boat
deck and the A deck and the B decK ?
Mr. Boxhall. The bridge deck and the boat deck are all one.
Senator Smith. All one?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. The boat deck extended forward ?
Mr. Boxhall. It was all one deck.
Senator Smith. It completes the bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say you went on watch, and that was your
post Sunday evening at wnat hour ?
Mr. Boxhall. Eight p. m.
Senator Smith. Eight p. m. ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you were required to remain how long?
Mr. Boxhall. Until midnight.
Senator Smith. Did you spend all of that time that night at your
post, on duty ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on the bridge all that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What proportion of that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. Most of the time I was on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Most of the time ?
Mr. Boxhall. The greater part of the watch.
Senator SMriH. Do you know whether the customary officers were
at their posts of duty at the forward end of that boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. They were, sir.
Senator Smith. During your watch ?
Mr. Boxhall. They were.
Senator Smith. Give their names, if you can, and just what their
service consisted of.
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Lightoller was on the bridge when I went up
there along with the sixth officer at 8 o'clock — along with Sixtn
Officer Moody.
Senator Smith. A little louder, pleaae.
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Lightoller was on watch on the bridge when I
went on watch at 8 o'clock with Sixth Officer Moody. Mr. Ijightoller
was relieved at 10 o'clock by Mr. Murdock. Mr. Murdock was on
watch until the accident happened.
Senator Smith. Who else was forward on that deck or on the
bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Moody, the sixth officer.
i t ^, ^99
TITANIC DISASTER. 221
Senator Smith. Where is the crow's nest with reference to the
bridge?
Mr. BoxHALL. The crow's nest is up the foremast.
Senator Smith. How far forward oi the bridge 1
Mr. BoxHAix. I should say about 120 feet.
Senator Smith. How high above the bridge ?
Mr. BoxHAii.. I could not say what height it was, but the plan
will give it to you there.
Senator Smith. Can you not say approximately ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I would not Uke to say.
Senator Smith. What is the crow's nest ?
Mr. BoxHALt. The crow's nest is the lookout box.
Senator Smith. How high up on the masthead ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Is it a part oi the mast ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who occupied the crow's nest during your watch
Sunday night?
Mr. BoxHALL. The lookout man.
Senator Burton. What is that ?
Mr. Boxhaix. The lookout men.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Boxhaix. Fleet and Leigh were the lookout men at the time
of the accident. I can not say who were the lookout men before 10
o'clock.
Senator Burton. How do you spell that first name ?
Mr. BoxHALL. F-1-e-e-t.
Senator Bourne. How do you spell Leigh ?
Mr. BoxHALL. L-e-i-g-h.
Senator Smith. Two men were at the crow's nest ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see them there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. You could not see them from the bridge.
Senator Smith. How do you know they were there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Because they answered the bells from the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did they both answer the bells ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator SbiIITH. How do you know they both answered ?
Mr. Boxhaix. You can hear them.
Senator Smith. How can you distinguish between one answer and
the other ?
Mr. Boxhaix. Different voices.
Sttiator Smith. And from that you are satisfied that they were
both at their posts t
Mr. Boxhaix. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who was on the lookout t Who was on the look-
out, if anyone, besides these two men ?
Mr. Boxhaix. On the bridge.
Senator Smith. Yes; on the bridge.
Mr. Boxhaix. The first officer.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Boxhaix. Yes; Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Anyone else ?
<i .^».^^«^ >>
222 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. Not that I know of.
Senator Burton. I understood you were there.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes. I was not on the lopkout, though.
Senator Burton. You were not on the lookout there forward f
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I was there if I was called.
Senator Smith. One moment. I will get along to that. Was the
ordinary complement of officers at their posts of duty
Mr. BOXHALL. The ordinary complement of officers ?
Senator Smith (continuing). At the forward end of that boat^ in
the crow's nest, and on the bridge ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If this lookout had been increased on that night
you would have known it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I do not know. I am not sure whether they
were increased or not.
Senator Smith. You say there were two men in the crow's nest ?
Mr. BoxHALL. There were two men in the crow's nest; yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any increased vi^ance ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know. I did not hear of it.
Senator Smith. You did not hear of it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not hear of it, but possibly there were extra
men on the lookout.
Senator Smith. Were these men that were on the lookout the men
who performed that service customarily ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. That was their special position ?
Mr. BoxHALL. That was their special position ?
Senator Smith. Was there anyone up in the eyes, so called ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did you see anyone there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not see anyone there.
Senator Smith. Where are the eyes ?
Mr. BoxHALL. On the forecastle head.
Senator Smith. That is out forward ?
Mr. BoxHALL. As far forward as they can possibly get.
Senator Smith. Forward of the bridge, ana in the bow ?
Mr. BoxHALL. As far as they can possibly get, sir, forward.
Senator Smith. You say that you do not know whether there was
anyone in the eyes, so called ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; I do not know.
Senator Smith. Once more, for the information of my colleague, will
you state the location of the eyes on this particular boat)
Mr. BoxHALL. It is the stemhead, we usually term it. The stem-
head is as far forward on board the ship as you can possibly get — the
forward extremity of the ship.
Senator Smith. It is not in advance of the ship's bow?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But as far forward as
Mr. Boxhall. As the taffrail will allow you to go and the deck
extends.
Senator Smith. Would the occupants of that point on the boat
have been visible to you if they had been there that night ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. WTiy ?
i€ ...».««.^ ff
TITANIC '' BISASTEB. 22S
Mr. BoxHALL. Because I was not looking for it. I was not looking
for them.
Senator Smith. Could you have looked ahead and not seen them ?
\b*. BoxHALL. If I had looked ahead I should have seen them.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that you did not look ahead ?
Mr. BoxHAix. I dia not notice them. I was in the chart room
working out positions most of the evening — ^working navigation.
Senator Smith. Sunday night ?
\Ir. BoxHALL. Sunday night.
Senator Smith. But you said you were frequently at the bridge
that night.
Mr. fioxHALL. Just so.
Senator Smith. During the time that you were at the bridge, or on
the forward deck, you did not see anyone
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not look to see them.
Senator Smith (continuing). At the eyes? Well, answer my ques-
tion. I want you to answer in your own way, of course.
Mr. BoxHALL. Just so.
Senator Smith. You did not see anyone there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir. >
Senator SifiTH. And you did not look to see ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know you were in the vicinity of icebergs
that night ?
Mr. fioxHALL. No; I did not know we were in the vicinity of
icebergs.
Senator Smith. Did not the second or first officer apprise joxx of
the fact that they had information that they were in the vicinity of
icebergs ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I knew we had had information They did not
apprise me that evening of it.
Senator Smith. When did they apprise you ?
^ilii. BoxHALL. As a matter of fact they did not mention it to me.
Senator Smith. Has it never been mentioned to you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes; the captain mentioned it.
Senator Smith. The captain mentioned it to you ?
\fr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. When!
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know whether it was the day before or two
days before. He gave me some positions of icebergs, which I put on
the chart.
Senator Smith. Which you put on the chart ?
yb. Boxhall. On his cnart.
Senator Smith. Did the captain tell you that the Califomian had
wired the Titanic that they were in the vicinity of icebergs ?
Mr. Boxhall. No. The captain gave me some wireless messages
from Southampton, I think, tnat we had had before we had sailed,
and asked me to put these positions on the chart.
Senator Smith. Did you know whether a wireless had been received
from the AmeriJea that the Titanic was in the vicinity of icebei^ ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I could not say.
Senator Smith. Do you want us to understand that you had
no knowledge of the proximity of this ship to icebergs immediately
preceding the
Mr. Boxhall. I had no knowledge.
t( .^-.^«.*^ f>
824 TIIAKIO DI8ASTEB.
Senator Smith. One moment. [Continuing.] Immediately pre-
ceding the collision, or during the hours of your watch from 8 o'clock
until the collision occurred ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not realize the ship was so near the ice field.
Senator Smith. You knew you were in the vicinity of the Great
Banks?
Mr. BoxHALL. I knew we were in the vicinity of the Qreat Banks.
Senator Smith. What was the weather at that time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Verv fine and clear.
Senator Smith. Cold ?
Mr. BoxH4LL. Yes; verv ijold.
Senator Smith. Unusually cold ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; not for that time of year.
Senator Smith. Did you realize that you were out of the particular
influence of the Gulf Stream ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know that the water was taken from the sea
freouently that night ?
Mr. BdxHALL. fknew the water and the temperature of the air was
taken every two hours after the ship left port.
Senator Smith. Was the temperature of water taken at any time
to your knowledge ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Every two hours after the ship left the port. I do
not know what it was.
Senator Smith. No ; I do not think you understood me. You say
that water was taken from the sea and the temperature of the air waa
taken every two hours after you left port ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. I asked you whether you know the temperature of
the water taken from the sea every two hours was tested ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You do know it? '
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. How do vou know it?
Mr. BoxHALL. Because the sailor men and tlie quartermaster took
this temperature, and I would see them doing it sometimes.
Senator Smith. Wa^ it reported anywhere!
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; it was reported. It was reported to the junior
ofiicer.
Senator Smith. To the junior officer?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Moody.
Senator Smith. Did he survive the wreck?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it reported to any other officer ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; but their book was always there for him to see.
Senator Smith. Did the log contain any reference to' these teats?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you know ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because it was the junior officer's duty to see that
the log did contain it.
Senator Smith. That was his duty ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
€t »^«..^^^ 9f
TITANIC DiaASTEB. 226
Senator Smith. And you think that was done because that was
his duty?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take the temperature of the water
yoorself ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. At any time during that voyage ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether that water Sunday night
was colder than it was Monday night ?
Mr. Boxhall. No ; I did not know.
Senator Smith. I mean preceding.
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Wednesday night ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Do you of your own knowledge know the tempera-
ture of that water ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not.
Senator Smith. Were you in the water
Mr. Boxhall (interrupting). No, sir.
Senator Smith (continuing) . When the collision came %
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. Boxhall. At no time at aU.
Senator Smith. You do not know of your own knowledge how
cold it was ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. But you are willing to say it was a yery cold night ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes; it was a yery cold ni^ht.
Senator Smith. Do you know Mr. Bride, the wireless operator
of the THanicf
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether his feet were frozen after
the accident occurred and before he reached the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Boxhall. I knew his feet were bad, but I did not know what
"wns the matter with them. I did not know whether they were
frozen.
Senator Smith. You do not know whether they were frozen or not t
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Did anyone die aboard the boat you were on
between the scene of the smking, at the place of the sinking, of the
Titanic and the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of others dying in these lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know of any dying in the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. Do you know whetner Mr. Phillips died in the life-
boat or on the lifeboat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Only what I haye heard, that Mr. Phillips died
after he was pulled on the — whether he was puUed on or whether
he scrambled on the upturned collapsible boat I could not say. It
\s only hearsay.
Senator Smith. He died ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; he died.
SUS6 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. He was the wireless operator that was the chief of
Mr. Brady ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But so far as you know of your own knowledge
you are unable to say what the temperature test of this water in the
vicinity of the Great Banks, where this accident occurred, would
show ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I am unable to say what it was.
Senator Smith. Were there any additional officers or members of
the crew stationed in the bows or on the deck Sunday night after you
went on watch ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know about any additional members.
Senator Smith. The crew, or rather the assi^ments, were the
permanent assignments, and so far as you know, that is all ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just the usual staff, I know they would be, but
whether there were any additional men there I coufd not say.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain frequently Sunday night ?
Mr. Boxhall. I saw him frequently during the watch, sir.
Senator Smith. During the watch?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From 8 o'clock on ?
Mr. Boxhall. Up to the time of the accident.
Senator Smith. Up to the time the Titanic sank ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How frequently ?
Mr. Boxhall. On and off most of the watch.
Senator Smith. Where was he when you saw him at these times ?
Mr. Boxhall. Sometimes out on the outer bridge. I would go out
and report. I was working observations out, if you understand,
most ot that watch; working out different calculations and reporting
to him; and that is how it was I came in contact with him so much.
Senator Smith. Where was he at other times when you saw him ?
Mr. Boxhall. Sometimes in his chart room and sometimes on the
bridge and sometimes he would come to the wheelhouse, inside of the
wheelhouse.
Senator Smith. How do you know he would go to the wheelhouse ?
Mr. Boxhall. I would see him pass through.
Senator Smith. You would see him passing through ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Would you see him frequently in the wheelhouse ?
Mr. Boxhall. Frequently, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the captain on deck or on the bridge or in the
wheelhouse when you assumed your watch at 8 o'clock ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say where he was. I do not remember
seeing him at 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. How soon after you took your watch did you see
him?
Mr. Boxhall. As near as I can tell, I saw him about 9 o'clock.
Senator Smith. About 9 o'clock?
'Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. For the first time ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes. I did not say for the first time.
Senator Smith. As nearly as you can recollect t
it . « 9t
TITANIC DISASTER. 227
Mr. BoxHALL. No; but a particular instance recalls to me that I
did see him about 9 o'clock.
Senator Smith. When you saw him about 9 o'clock, do you mean
just before 9 or just after 9 ?
Mr. BoxHALL. You are trying to drive me down to the minute; and
I can not state.
Senator Smith. I just want to get it as accurately as you can give it.
Would you think it was before or after ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say.
Senator Smith. About 9 o'clock ?
Mr. Boxhall. About 9 o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. Was anyone with him when you saw him at that
time?
Mr. Boxhall. That is another thin^ that is hard to say. I do not
remember whether I saw him on the bridge or in the wheelhouse when
I reported some positions that I had worked out.
Senator Smith. Did ^ou see Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sit.
Senator Smith. With the captain ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On the bridge, in the wheelhouse, or on the deck
that night ?
Mr. Boxhall. No. sir.
Senator Smith. Alter you took your watch %
Wt, Boxhaix. No, sir; not until after the accident.
Senator Smith. Not until after the accident ?
ifr. Boxhall. No^ sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou talk with the captain Sunday night ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How frequently ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say how frequently.
Senator Smith. Do ^ou know what time he dined that night %
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or with whom he dined ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or where he dined ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, air.
Senator Smith. But you do know that about 9 o'clock you saw him
on the deck, on the bndge, and in the wheelhouse at various times.
Would you say all of the time in one of those three places after that ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not know that the captain was anywhere awaj
from the bridge the whole watch. I mean to say from the bridge
Quarters, takii^ the whole bridge together, all the chart rooms, and
Uie open bridge. They are all practically on one square, and I do not
think the captain was away from that altogether.
Senator SMrrn. When did you last see tne captain ?
Vt[. Boxhall. When he told me to go awav in the boat.
Senator SMrrn. How long was that after the collision ?
Bib*. Boxhall. I do not know what time I left the ship. I have
been trying to find the time or trying to calculate, but I can not think
what time it was.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the collision took place ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was just approaching the bridge.
228 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. On the port or the starboard side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Starboard side.
Senator Smith. Did the collision occur on the port or the starboard
side?
Mr. BoxHALL. On the starboard side, sir.
Senator Smith. And you were on deck at that time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. On the deck, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Approaching the bridge ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Just approacning the bndge.
Senator Smith. Could you see what had occurred ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; I could not see what had occurred.
Senator Smith. Did you know what had occurred ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, not at all. I heard the sixth officer say what
it was.
Senator Smith. What did he say that it was ?
Mr. Boxhall. He said we had struck an iceberg.
Senator Smith. Was there any evidence of ice on any of the decks,
to your knowledge, after that coUision ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just a little on the lower deck. On the open deck
I saw just a Uttle, not much.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether anyone was injured by
that impact ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, I do not know; I never heard.
Senator Smith. Did you continue to go toward the bridge after
the impact ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far did you go ?
Mr. Boxhall. At the time oi the impact I was just coming alone
the deck and almost abreast of the captain's quarters, and I heard
the report of three bells.
Senator Smith. What kind of a report? Describe it.
Mr. Boxhall. The lookout's report.
Senator Smith. What was said f
Mr. Boxhall. Three bells were struck.
Senator Smith. Three bells?
Mr. Boxhall. That signifies something has been seen ahead.
Almost at the same time 1 heard the first officer give the order " Hard
astarboard," and the engine telegraph rang.
Senator Smith. WTiat did the order mean?
Mr. Boxhall. Ordering the ship's head to port.
Senator Smith. Did you see this iceberg at that time? ■
Mr. Boxhall. Not at that time.
Senator Smith. Did it extend above the deck that you were on ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, no, sir; it did not extend there.
Senator Smith. A little lower?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether it struck the bow squarely ?
Mr. Boxhall. It seemed to me to strike the bluff of the bow.
Senator Smith. Describe that.
Mr. Boxhall. It is in the forward part of the ship, but almost on
the side.
Senator Smith. On which side?
Mr. Boxhall. It is just where the ship begins to widen out on the
starboard side.
it
TITANIC " mSASTEB. 229
Senator Smith. How far would that be from the front of the ship ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know.
Senator Smith. About how far ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say in feet.
Senator Smith. How far would it be from the eyes ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know; I could not say.
Senator Smith. You could not describe that ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; you could measure it on the plans, though.
Senator Smith. About how far ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say how many feet. I have no idea of
the number of feet.
Senator Smith. But it was not a square blow on the bow of the
ship?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In ordinary parlance, would it be a glancing blow?
Mr. Boxhall. A glancing dIow.
Senator Smith. Was the olow felt immediately?
Mr. Boxhall. A sUght impact.
Senator Smith. How slight ?
Mr. Boxhall. It did not seem to me to be very serious. I did not
take it seriously.
Senator Smith. SUght enough to stop you in your walk to the
bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, no, no, no.
Senator Smith. Heavy enougli to stop you, I mean?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So slight that you did not regard it as serious ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not think it was serious.
Senator Smith. Did you proceed to the bridge i
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Whom did you find there?
Mr. Boxhall. I found the sixth officer and the first officer and
captain.
Senator Smith. The sixth officer, first officer, and the captain ?
Mr, Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. All on the bridge together.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliat, if anything, wtis said by the captain?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir. The captain said, *^What have we
struck r' Mr. Murdock, the first officer, said, '*We have struck an
iceberg.''
Senator Smith. Then what was said ?
Mr. Boxhall. He followed on to say — Mr. Murdock followed on
to sa}', *^I put her hard-a-starboard and run the engines full astern,
but it was too close; she hit it."
Senator Fletcher. That was before she was struck ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; after.
Senator Smith. That was after she struck ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. He said that he put her hard-a-starboard ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But it was too late ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
40475— FT 3—12 5
230 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And he hit it ?
Afr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the captain say?
Mr. BoxHALL. Mr. Murdock also said, '^1 intended to port around
it."
Senator Smith. ''I intended to port around it" ?
Ifr. BoxHALL. "But she liit before I could do any more."
Senator Smith. Did he say anything more ?
Mr. BoxHALL. "The water-tight doors are closed, sir."
Senator Smith. What did the captain say ?
Mr. BoxHALL. jMr. Murdock continued to say, "The water-tight
doors are closed, sir."
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock continued to say, "Are they closed" ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; "They are closed."
Senator Smith. "The water-tight doors are closed" ?
Mr. Boxhall. "Are closed."
Senator Smith. Do you understand bv that that he had applied
the
Mr. Boxhall (interrupting). I saw him close them.
Senator Smith. He had applied the electricity?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
SenatoB Smith. And by that had closed the water-tight compart-
ments?
Mr. Boxhall Yes, sir; and the captain asked him if he had rung
the warning bell.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
ifr. Boxhall. He said, "Yes, sir."
Senator Smith. What is the warning bell ?
Mi, Boxhall. It is a small electric bell which rings at every water-
tight door.
Senator Smith. And he said that that had been done ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What else did he say ?
Mr, Boxhall. We all walked out to the corner of the bridge then
to look at the iceberg.
Senator Smith. The captain ?
Mr. Boxhall. The captain, first officer, and myself.
Senator Smith. Did you see it ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was not very sure of seeing it. It seemed to me
to be a small black mass just not rising very high out of the water,
just a little on the starboard quarter.
Senator Smith. How far out of the water should you judge?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not judge the size of it, but it seemed to me
to be very, very low lying.
Senator Smith. Did it extend up to B deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, no; the ship was past it then. It looked to me
to be very, very low in the water.
Senator Fletcher. Give us an idea; do not leave it there.
Senator Smith. How far do you think it was above the water ?
Mr, Boxhall. That is hard to say. In my own opinion I do not
think the thing extended above the slup's rail.
Senator Smith. Above the ship's rail ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. And how far was this rail above the water's edge ?
ft ^*^. ^ ff
TITANIC DI8ASTEK. 231
Mr. BoxHALL. Probably about 30 feet.
Senator Smith. About 30 feet ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; hardly 30 feet.
Senator Smith. The distance from the water^s edge to the boat
deck was how far ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could get that measurement from the plan.
Senator Smith. About 70 feet, was it not ?
Mr. BoxHALL. From the boat deck it was about 70 feet to the
water's edge. The boat deck is one deck above A. This rail, I mean,
is on the C deck.
Senator Smith. You say this looked like a black object ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were the stars shining that night ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The stars were shining.
Senator Smith. And the moon ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No moon.
Senator Smith. No moon ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Was it clear ?
Mr. Boxhall. Clear.
Senator Smith. And yet you wish to be understood as saying that,
standing in the bow of the ship as far forward as you could get, and
looking over directly at this oDstacle, you were unable to determine
exactly what it was ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was not standing in the bow of the ship, sir; I
was standing on the bridge.
Senator Smith. On the bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. But you could see this object, could you ?
Mr. Boxhall. I am not sure of seeing it; that is what I say, I
would not swear to seeing it. But I fancied seeing this long-lying
growler.
Senator Smith. And that it looked dark ?
Mr. Boxhall. It looked to me as if it was very, very low.
Senator Smith. And dark ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did the captain seem to know what they had
struck ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Boxhall. Mr. Murdock saw it when we struck it.
Senator Smith. Did he say what it was ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say it was ?
Mr. Boxhall. He said it was an iceberg.
Senator Smith. After these signals were turned in, what was done ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know what was done, because I left the
bridge then.
Senator Smith. Where did you go ?
ilr. Boxhall. I went right down below, in the lowest steerage,
as far as I could possibly get without going into the cargo portion of
the ship, and inspected aU the decks as I came up in the vicinity of
where 1 thought she had struck ?
Senator Smfth. What did you find ?
232 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. I found no damage. I found no indications to show
that the ship had damaged herselr.
Senator Smith. On the inside ?
Mr. BoxHALL. On the inside.
Senator Smith. Did you say you went to the steerage ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I went down to the steera^^e.
Senator Smith. But found no evidence of injury there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Then where did you go ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Then I went on tne bndge and reported to the cap-
tain that I could not see any damage.
Senator Smith. One moment, did you look farther, beyond the
steerage ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I looked in all the decks. I worked my way up to
the top deck.
Senator Smith. Looking at all of them in the forward part ?
Mr. BoxHALL. In the forward part of the ship; that is, abreast of
No. 2 and 3 hatches.
Senator Smith. Then what did you do ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I came right up to the bridge and reported that I
could find no damage.
Senator Smith. What did the captain say?
Mr. BoxHALL. He said, *'Go down and iind the carpenter and get
him to sound the ship.''
Senator Smith. Did you do so ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I was proceeding down, but I met the carpenter.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him?
Mr. BoxHALL. I said, ''The captain wants you to sound the ship.'^
He said, '*The ship is making water," and he went on the bridge to
the captain, and I thought I would go down forward again and inves-
tigate, and then I met a mail clerk, a man named Smith, and he asked
where the captain was. I said, ''He is on the bridge." He said^
''The mail hold is full or filhng rapidly." I said, "Well, you go and
report it to the captain and I will go down and see." And I pro-
ceeded right down into the mail room.
Senator Smith. What did you find there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I went down as far as the sorting-room deck and
found mail clerks down there working.
Senator Smith. Doing what ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Taking letters out of the racks, they seemed to me
to be doing.
Senator Smith. Taking letters out of the racks and putting them
into pouches?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not see what thev were putting them in.
Senator Smith. You could not see what disposition they were
making of them ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I looked through an open door and saw these men
working at the racks, and directly beneath me was the mail hold, and
the water seemed to be then witliin 2 feet of the deck we were stand-
ing on.
Senator Smith. What did you do in that situation?
Mr. BoxHALL (continuing). And bags of mail floating about. I
went right on the bridge again and reported to the captain what I
had seen.
€ € ^^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 233
Senator Smith . 'VVT:\at did he say ?
Mr. BoxttALL. He said all right, and then the order came out for
the boats.
Senator Si4XXM- Yo\i mean the order was given to man or lower the
lifeboats \
Mr.Box«:A.T^x^. To clear the lifeboats.
Senator Sm^ith. Do you know anything about what the carpenter
did after yovi left* t\iin ?
Mr. B0X11AX.X-. ^o, sir; I never saw him any more.
Senator Sm^ixh^. X>o you know anything about the wireless t
Mr. BoxiiAi^T^. ^o, sir.
Senator S^iixH. Or what the captain or any other officer did
regarding it %
Mr, BoxnALi.. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When the order was given to clear the lifeboats,
^\vat did you do 1
Mr. BoxHALL- I went around the decks and was clearing the life-
boats; helping take the covers off.
Senator Smith. Covers off?
Mr. BoxHALX. Covers off of the boats, and clearing them generally.
Senator Smith. Were they all covered ?
Mr. BoxHAUL. Yes, sir; except the sea boats; and assisting gener-
ally around the decks. Then I went into the chart room and worked
out the ship's position. I was clearing boats for a Uttle while, and
then iwent in and worked the position out.
Senator Smith. Did you report her position ?
3tfr. BoxHAUL. I submitted ner position to the captain.
Senator Smfth. What did he say ?
Mr. BoxHALL. He said, **Take it to the Marconi room."
Senator Smith. Did you do so ?
M^r. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you find the operator in charge ?
Mr. BoxHAix.. I found the- two operators there.
Senator Smith. Who ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Phillips and Bride.
Senator Smith. What did you do with your information ?
Mr. BoxHALL. There was too much noise of the steam escaping so
I wrote the position down for them and left it.
Senator Smith. You simply wrote the position down ?
ilr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. And handed it to the operator ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Left it on his table there. He saw it; he made a
call, and he was listening, and I did not interrupt him.
Senator Smith. Did you remain to see what disposition was made
of it?
Mr. Boxhaix. No.
Senator Smith. Did you keep a copy of that ? Or do you know
:actly what that showed ?
Mr. BoxHALL. That position ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I have the position.
Senator Smith. Have you a memorandum of it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I have it in my head.
Senator Smith. Give it to the reporter.
ft ,^^ f9
234 TITANIC DISA8TBB.
Mr. BoxHALL. Forty-one, forty-six; fifty, fourteen.
Senator Burton. Give that again.
Mr. BoxHALL. Forty-one, forty-six, north; fifty, fourteen west.
Senator Smith. Was that the last time the ship's position was
taken ?
Mr. BoxHALL. That is the position I worked up.
Senator Smith. Was that tne last time it was taken so far as you
know?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; that was the position at the time she struck.
Senator Smith. Was that where she sank, do you know ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know. She would just drift a little way
farther on, probably half a mile or so.
Senator Smfih. What did you do after you left the operator's room %
Mr. BoxHALL. Went around the decks assisting to clear the decks
and send distress simals off.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by clearing the decks %
Mr. BoxHALL. Clearing the boats, I should say.
Senator Smith. At that time were passengers on these decks ?
Mjc. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Men and women ?
Mr. Boxhall. Men and women; yes, coming up.
Senator Smith. What were they doing ?
I^. Boxhall. I was too busy to take notice, as a matter of fact.
Senator Smith. Did they have life preservers on, or life belts ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I think all of them had life preservers that I
saw.
Senator Smith. Would you be willing to say that, so far as your
observation went
Mr. Boxhall. They all had them, I should say, as far a^ my
observation went.
Senator Smith. Men and women ?
Mx. Boxhall. Yes^ sir.
Senator Smith. Children ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was around the bridge most of the time.
Senator Smith. I want to get your best information about it.
Mr. Boxhall. I was around the bridge most of the time sending
off distress signals and endeavoring to signal to a ship that was ahead
of us.
Senator Smith. Taking the signals from the captain ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Carrying them yourself to the operator ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; distress signals — rockets.
Senator Smith. On the ship ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you return again to the wireless room ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. You say these passengers were gathered about on
all decks %
Mr. Boxhall. I did not leave the boat deck after that.
Senator Smtth. You remained on the upper deck ^
Mr. Boxhall. On the upper deck.
Senator Smith. Where tnese lifeboats were ?
Mr. Boxhall. Where these lifeboats were.
Senator Smith. And did you take part in clearing ?
(* -,,«. ^^^^ fy
TITANIC DI&ASTEB. 235
Mr. BoxHALL. Generally assisting.
Senator Smith. Assisting in lowering these lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not in lowering them, sir.
Senator Smith. In manning them ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir, in manning them; but my attention until
the time I left the ship was mostly taken up with firing off distress
rockets and trying to signal a steamer that was almost ahead of us.
Senator Smith. How far ahead of you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It is hard to say. I saw his masthead lights and I
saw his side lights.
Senator Smith. In what direction ?
Mr. BoXHALL. Almost ahead of us.^
Senator Smith. On the same course, apparently ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; oh, no.
Senator Smith. On the same general course ?
Mr. BoxHALL. By the way she was heading she seemed to be meet-
ing us.
Senator Smith. Coming toward you ?
Mr. Boxhall. Coming toward us.
Senator Smith. Do jtou know anything about what boat that was ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you had any information since about it?
Mr. Boxhall. None whatever.
Senator Smith. You say you fired these rockets and otherwise at-
tempted to signal her ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir. She got close enough, as I thought, to read
our electric Morse signal, and I signaled to her; I told her to come at
once, we were sinking; and the captain was standing
Senator Smith. This was the signal ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Boxhall. I told the captain about this ship, and he was with
me most of the time when we wefe signaling.
Senator Smith. Did he also see it ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you to do anything else to arrest its
attention ?
Mr. Boxhall. I went over and started the Morse signal. He said,
''Tell him to come at once, we are sinking."
Senator Smith. You were sinking already, you say 1
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. ''Come at once, we are sinking?"
Mr. Boxhall, Yes.
Senator Smith. What would be that signal ?
Mr. Boxhall. It was sent in the Morse key, the Morse code.
Senator Smith. And you did that ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did you get any reply ?
Mr. Boxhall. I can not say I saw any reply. Some people say
she replied to our rockets and our signals, but 1 did not see them.
Senator Smith. Was any attempt made to get in wireless commu-
nication after you saw this boat — what you took to be a boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know what was transpiring in the wireless
room.
236 '' TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. These signals you utilized were Morse signals?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Are they recognized as standard for the sea ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Are they a part of the British regulations ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you sec any signals from this ship at all?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; 1 can not say that I saw any signals, except
her ordinary steaming light. Some people say they saw signals, but
I could not.
Senator Smith. In referring to ^^ some people/' whom do you mean ?
Mr. BoxHALL. People who were around tne bridge.
Senator Smith. Passengers ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I should not say passengers.
Senator Smith. Officers ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I tliink it was stewards.
Senator Smith. Stewards, the crew ?
Mr. BoxHALL. And people waititig in the boats, or something.
Senator Smith. They saw some of these signals ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Some men said they saw her signals ?
Senator Smith. From whatyou saw of that vessel, how far would
yoii think she was from tlie Tetanic?
Mr. BoxHALL. I should say approximately the ship would be
about 5 miles.
Senator Smith. Wliat lights (li<i you see ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The two masthead lights and the red light.
Senator Smith. Were the two masthead lights the first lights that
you could see ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Tlie first lights.
Senator Smith. And what other lights ?
Mr. BoxHALL. And then, as she got closer, she showed her side
light, her red light.
Senator Smith. So you were quite sure she was coming in your
direction ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Quite sure.
Senator Smith. How long was this before the boat sank ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It is hard to tell. I had no idea of the time then;
I do not know what time it was then.
Senator Smith. Can you recall about how long it was after the
collision ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No.
Senator SMrrn. Was tliis information communicated to the wire-
less operator?
Mr. BoxHALL. Wliat communication, sir?
Senator Smith. This information communicated to the wireless
operator ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Did you know that they has sent out a distress
signal ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. And you would expect that tliis boat would pick
it up if they had a wireless on it ?
Mr. Boxhall. If she had a wireless installation.
Senator SMrrn. You busied yourself with the Morse signals?
ii -.,»,. ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 237
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they continue up to the time you assisted in
clearing the lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I would signal the Morse and then go ahead and
send off a rocket, and then go back and have a look at the ship until
I was finally sent away.
Senator Smith. Suppose vou had had a searclilight on the bow of
that boat, and could nave tnrown it strongly against this object that
jou seemed to see, do you think that woulcf have apprised tne vessel
of its proximity to you and of your distress i
ilr. BoxHALL. Well, no doubt a searchlight might have called
attention to it then.
Senator Smith. This boat was not equipped with a searclilight?
Mr. BoxHALi.. The Titanic was not; no.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been employed on a ship that was
sf» equipped ? ^
ilr. KOXHALL. Not in the merchant service.
Senator Smith. Not in the merchant service ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Any other service ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. In the naval service ?
Mr. BoxHALL. In the naval service.
Senator Smith. Is that a part of the equipment of the British
naval service ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; all the ships that I have seen have a search-
light.
Senator Smith. But not in the merchant service ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not in the merchant service.
Senator Smith. In order that the record may be complete, will
you kindly explain a little more in detail how the Morse signal is
given
ilr. Boxhall. By means of a telegraphic key and a Morse lamp.
It Ls a series of dots and dashes.
Senator Smith. Which are reflected ?
ilr. Boxhall. No; there is no reflection at all; it is just simply
showing the light in and out — an electric light .
Senator Smith. How are the rockets exploded ^
Mr. Boxhall. The rockets are exploded by a firing lantern.
Senator Smith. They shower?
Mr. Boxhall. They go right up into the air and they tlirow stars.
Senator Smith. How strong rockets do they have on these boats —
what is the charge; do you know?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know sir; the board of trade regulations
govern that.
Senator Smith. Did they work satisfactorily ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. So that, so far as your manipulation of these
signals and rockets
Mr. Boxhall. They were quite satisfactory.
Senator Smith. The failure to arouse the attention of this ship was
not due to any impaired or partial success of these signals ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not at all, sir.
238 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. You say you continued, to fire the rockets and give
the signals ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And then retunied to the side of the ship ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And assisted in the work of the lifeboats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. All about the same time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Boxhall, how many people were on the
boat deck, the upper deck, where these lifeboats were located?
Mr. Boxhall. At what time, sir ?
Senator Smith. At the time you were clearing them, at the time
they were lowered, the first ones were lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know what time the first boat was lowered.
Senator Smith. Were you there when it was lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was around the bridge, but the first boat that was
lowered was lowered away from aft.
Senator Smith. Lowered from aft?
Mr. Boxhall. On the starboard side. I received the communica-
tion throught the telephone in the wheelhouse that the first boat had
been lowered. I did not notice the time.
Senator Smith. Who lowered it ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know who was aft.
Senator Smith. The communication did not tell you ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not know who it was that told me through
the telephone.
Senator Smith. Have you since learned who lowered it ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do vou know anything about who was in this first
boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I have not the slightest idea.
Senator Smith. You say you did not see it lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the second boat lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know where it was lowered from ?
Mr. Boxhall. I have not the slightest idea where it was lowered
from.
Senator Smith. Whether aft or on the port or starboard side?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not know. The first boat was lowered from
aft on the starboard side, I know, because that information was sent
through to me on the phone.
Senator Smith. But who sent it you do not know?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know.
Senator Smith. What did you do after receiving that commu-
nication ?
Mr. Boxhall. I went outside again and was assisting generally.
Senator Smith. Wliere did you go ? Which side of the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I went on the port side.
Senator Smith. Midsliips, or aft, or forward ?
Mr. Boxhall. Around forward.
Senator Smith. Were there any lifeboats forward ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes. ^
a -«-..«*.>« ff
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 239
Senator Smith. On each side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. BoxHALL. When I left the ship ?
S^iator Smith. When the ship left Southampton, if you can teU.
I want to find out the location of the lifeboats.
Mr. BoxHAix. They were equally divided on the boat deck — the
port side and the starboard siae.
Senator Smith. Fore and aft ?
Mr. Boxhall. Fore and aft.
Senator Smith. How many would be fore ?
Mr. BoxHALL. There were 14 lifeboats. TTiat would be 7 on either
side.
Senator Smith. Were these lifeboats all along the side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Continuously ? There was no division between
those midships and those forward f
Mr. BoxHAU.. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You say there were how many on a side ?
Mr. BoxHAix. Seven on either side. I never counted them, but I
think there were seven. There were 14 lifeboats and 2 sea boats.
They were equaUy divided.
Senator Smtth. Did you see any of these lifeboats filled or lowered
on the starboard side, either fore or aft ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw some one filling the starboard emergency boat
every time that I went and was firing off rockets. I fired them just
close to the bows of this emergency boat.
Senator Smith. There were only two emergency boats ?
Mr. BoxHAix. That is all; but that one I noticed, because these
distress rockets are dangerous things if thev explode, and I had to
keep people away clear while I firea the rocKets.
Senator Smith. On the port side you could have seen but one t
There was one on each side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. You could have seen but one, and that was at the
boat deck. Was it being lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. I saw it just before it was lowered, and then I fired
a rocket after it was lowered.
Senator Smith. Do you know who was in that boat ?
Mr. BoxHAix. No, 1 do not know who was in it. I did not notice
who was working at the boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many of the crew were in that
boat?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not.
Senator Smith. Or how many passengers ?
Mr. Boxhall. I have not the slightest idea.
Senator Smith. Or who the passengers were ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Or whether they were men or women ?
Mr. Boxhall. There were men in it.
Senator Smith. Men and women ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. In about what proportion ?
240 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHAix. I could not sav. My business — I was intent on
sending these rockets out and did not stop to look.
Senator Smith. Is that the only boat you saw lowered or filled ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not see them in the act of lowering that boat.
Senator SMrrn. Well, filling ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw the people in it.
Senator Smith. Is that the only one ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I noticed other boats being filled, but I did not
notice who was filling them. At such a time as that one does not
stop to look who is doing things.
oenator Smith. I understand that. Did you see the other boats of
the same type lowered ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I was in it when it was lowered.
Senator Smith. You were in it. When was it lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not^know the time.
Senator Smith. Could you tell the order in which they were lowered,
whether this was the second or third or fourth ?
Mr. Boxhall. When I was lowered away I was the last boat but
one on the port side. There was one of the lifeboats lowered away
after I left, a few minutes after I left, and then there were no more
boats hanging in the davits on the port side.
Senator Smith. Was there not one boat that was entangled in the
gear and could not be lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; not that I know of. I never heard about
it and I did not see it.
Senator Smith. As far as you recollect, all of the Ufeboats
Mr. Boxhall. As far as I recollect, and what I have heard, every-
thing worked very smoothly in lowering the boats.
Senator Smith. And all of the lifeboats had been lowered when the
boat that you got in was lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. All but one.
Senator Smith. Where was that one ?
Mr. Boxhall. That was the next boat to me, aft.
Senator Smith. A lifeboat or a collapsible ?
Mr. Boxhall. A Ufeboat.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything to do with filling these
boats ?
ilr. Boxhall. I was assisting to get people along there, but I was
not standing at the side of the boat, lifting them in actually.
Senator Smith. What can you say about the anxiety of people to
get into these boats; was there great anxiety?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; I can not say that I saw that.
Senator Smith. What can you say as to whether they were reluctant
to get in ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not notice that, either.
Senator Smith. Were there many people on the boat deck when
you got into this boat i
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any people at all?
Mr. Boxhall. There were some around by the other boat.
Senator Smith. Anyone you knew?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not notice.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Ismay at that time ?
ti 9f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 241
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir. The last time I saw Mr. Ismay was some
little while before I came away from the ship in my boat.
Senator Smith. Before you came away ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not see him after that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. LightoUer at that time — when
you got in, I mean ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir. I saw Mr. Weyl.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Lowe or Mr. Pitman at that time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Murdock at that time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; only Mr. Weyl and the captain.
Senator Smith. Where was the captain ?
Mr. BoxHAix. The captain was standing by this boat, this emer-
gency boat.
Senator Smith. The one you got in?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far from it ?
Mr. BoxHALX.. Ho was standing by the wheelhouse door, just
abreast of this boat.
Senator Smith. By the wheelhouse door, just abreast of this boat ?
ilr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. What was he doing?
Mr. Boxhall. Supervising the boats being loaded, I think.
Senator Smith. Loaded ?
Mr. Boxhall. Supervising passengers being put into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did ho tofl you to get in ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Mr. Boxhall. He told me I had to get into that boat and go away.
Senator Smith. Did any other officer get into that boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Any other member of the crew ?
Mr. Boxhall. One man was in it.
Senator Smith. WTio was that?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know his name, sirf I forget.
Senator Smith. What w^as his occupation ?
Mr. Boxhall. Sailorman.
Senator Smith. But you do not know he was?
Mr. Boxhall. There was one sailorman, one steward, and one
cook; that is all.
Senator Smith. There were four men in that boat?
Mr. BoxHiVLL. And one passenger.
Senator Smith. A sailorman, a steward, a cook, yourself, and one
male passenger ?
Mr. Boxhall. One male passenger.
Senator Smith. Who was that passenger ?
Mr. Boxhall. He was a saloon passenger, who did not speak
Tnglish. He had a black beard.
Senator Smith. How old a man, apparently?
Mr. Boxhall. A middle-aged man.
Senator Smith. Did he seem to have any family there?
242 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. I think he had his wife there and some children.
Senator Smith. Did she get in ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The boat was already loaded; I did not see the pas-
sengers being put in.
&nator Smith. The boat was full ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, it seemed to me to be pretty full. The order
was given to lower the boats away when I was sent to her.
Senator Smith. How long was this before the boat sank t
Mr. BoxHALL. As near as I can judge, it seems to me about 20
minutes to half an hour.
Senator Smith. Before the boat sank ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain after that ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Not at all?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How far were you from the boat when it sunk ?
Mr. Boxhall. I suppose I was about a half a mile away.
Senator Smith. Gomg in what direction ?
Mr. Boxhall. Resting on the oars.
Senator Smith. Did aU the men in that boat handle oars ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any woman handle oars ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was handling one oar and a lady was assisting me
with it. But she was not compelled to do it; she was not asked to
do it.
vSenator Smith. Do you know who she was ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you find out afterwards who she was?
Mr. Boxhall. No; 1 did not find out at all.
Senator Smith. You did not ask her to do that, you say ?
Mr. BoiHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It was a voluntary service ?
Mr. Boxhall. Voluntary service.
Senator Smith. You were resting on your oars about half a mile
from the place where this ship went down ?
Mr. Boxhall. About half a mile.
Senator Smith. When you left the ship's side, were there others
trying to get into your boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Man or women ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As you proceeded from the ship's side did you see
anyone in the water ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; not at all.
Senator Smith. Did you encoimter anyone in the water at all after
you entered the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever return to the Titanic after leaving
its side ?
Mr. Boxhall. I pulled around the ship's stem and was intending
to go alongside, and tried to see if I could get alongside of the ship
again.
Senator Smith. What for?
14 >>
TITANIC DISASTER. 243
Mr. BoxHALL. I reckoned I could take about three more people off
the boat with safety.
Senator Smith. Who made that suggestion to you — anyone ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No.
Senator Smith. Did the suggestion come from a woman passenger,
or did you do it of your own motion ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did it of my own accord. I was in charge of the
boat.
Senator Smith. And you swung it around how close to the side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I kept a little distance off the ship.
Senator Smffh. How far off ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Well probably a hundred yards or so.
Senator Smith. Did anyone make any attempt to get into the boat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No — oh, no; there was no rush.
Senator Smith. And did you halloo to anyone to come ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No. I was hoping to be able to get alongside of the
ship again.
Senator Smith. Why did vou not get close ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because wnen I got so close as that I thought it was
wiser not to go any closer, and I put it to the people
Senator Smith. Wiser for what ?
Mr. Boxhall. Because there was only one man who understood
my orders as to how to handle a boat.
Senator Smith. Did you feel you were in danger from suction ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was there any suction ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I think there was a little suction.
Senator Smith. How much ?
Mr. Boxhall. The boat seemed to be drawn closer to the ship.
I think myself that there was more suction while the ship was settling
bodily. That was shortly after we were lowered into the boat.
I think there was more suction then than there was when she actually
went down, because I pulled some distance off then.
Senator Smith. You were not close enough to know actually what
the suction was when she actually sank, or as she actually sank ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, there was not much suction,
was there %
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not think there was the suction that the
people really thought there was. I was really surprised myself.
Senator miith. You were rather surprised, and all these officers
were rather surprised, were they not, that there was so little suction t
Mr. Boxhall. By nearsay, it seems to have been a general surprise
to everybody that there was so little suction.
Senator Smith. Do you know who the passenger was who got into
the boat — the man ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen him since then ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I have not.
Senator Smith. You did not see him aboard the Carpaifiiaf
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir. There was a lady there whom I asked to
steer the boat according to my orders. I asked her to puU the tiller
toward her or away.
Senator SmTH. Was that Mrs. Douglass ?
H ff
244 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. Mrs. Douglass, and she assisted me greatly in
doing that.
Senator Smith. Then you were in Mrs. Douglass's boat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did vou see her afterwards?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; on board the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. And talked with her?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I had a talk with her.
Senator Smith. Have you seen her since ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Her husband did not survive ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; he did not.
Senator Smith. She took the tiller of the lifeboat and steered it ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you pulled on the oar?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know, with reference to the other life-
boats, when yours reacned the side of the CarpcUhiaf
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I was the first one there.
Senator Smith. Who was the first person to step out of yoor boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. That I do not know.
Senator Smith. You do not remober whether it was Mrs. Douglass
or yourself
Mr. Boxhall. It was not myself, because I handed everybody out
before I camo out.
Senator Smith. Did you step onto a little bridge there on the side
of the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. On some little steps that went up the side?
Air. Boxhall. There was a stepladder up the side.
Senator Smith. A direct ladder?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes ; a direct ladder.
Senator Smith. And you assisted the passengers to that ladder?
.Mr. Boxhall. Yes, put the rope over their heads; put their arms
through a rope, and then assisted them up in that way.
Senator Smith. Did you land all the passengers in your boat?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, everyone.
Senator Smith. Aboard the Car2>athiaf
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Can you give the hour when you went alongside?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir. They told me on board the Ckirpaihia after-
wards that it was about 10 minutes after 4, approximately.
Senator Smith. Had you been rowing or lying on your oars from
the time you left the Titanic until
Mr. Boxhall. No; I had been showing green lights most of the
time. I had been showing pyrotechnic lights on the boat.
Senator Smith. Your boat was equipped with lights ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were any of the other lifeboats so equipped or did
you see any lights of that character on the other boats?
Mr. Boxhall. Not of that character; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Between the time you left the Titanic and the
time you reached the Carpathia, I mean ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
*< .»».^**^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 245
Senator Smith. Then you can not tell exactly when your lifeboat
was lowered, as to time ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Wlxat is the full complement of a lifeboat of the size
you were in when lowered and fitted ror an emergency — the official
complement ?
Mr. BoxHALL. You do not mean for ^^Man overboard, '* or anythiug
like that ?
Senator Smith. No ; what is the rule with reference to the manning
the lifeboats, how many sailors or seamen or officers are ordinarily
required to take charge of a lifeboat in such an emergency ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Well, you want at least two men.
Senator Smith. At least two ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Two men who understand orders in a boat to do the
pulling, and one man to give the orders and do the steering.
Senator Smith. And how many were there in your boat — ^four?
Mr. BoxHAUL. I had three men pulling and myself.
Senator Smith. And youi-sclf signalling — and the male passenger ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Well, the male passenger did not do much.
Senator Smith. He could not?
Mr. BoxHALL. He did not.
Senator Smith. Do j^ou know of vour own knowledge how many
men Mr. LightoUer put into the first boat he lowered on the port side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Titanic sink?
Mr. BoxHALL. No ; i can not say that I saw her sink. I saw the
lights go out, and I looked two or three minutes afterwards and it
was 25 minutes past 2. So I took it that when she sank would be
about 20 minutes after 2.
Senator Smith. How far were you from her then ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I would say we were then about three-fourths of a
mile from her.
Senator Smith. So you are unable to tell what scenes were then
transpiring on the Titanic f
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Ismay
that night ?
Mr. SoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliere ?
Mr. BoxHALL. On board of the ship.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
ilr. BoxHALL. On the bridge, probably about ten minutes or
a quarter of an hour before I came away in the boat.
Senator Smith. On the bridge, about ten minut^ or a quarter of
an hour before you went down over the side in the lifeboat ?
Mr. BoxHAix.. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know him personally ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long had you known him ?
Mr. Boxhall. I had known him by sight for about tliree years.
He has crossed before in some ships I have been in.
Senator Smith. What did he say to you ?
Mr. Boxhall. He asked me why I did not get the people in the
boat and get away ?
4D476— FT 3—12 6
246 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I told him the boat's crew were ready, and the boat
was ready to be put away when the captain^s order was given.
Senator Smith. And the order had not yet been given ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that all that was said ?
Afr. BoxHALL. That is aU.
Senator Smith. Did he say anything about himself?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; he passed on then.
Senator Smith. Who was with him at that time.
Mr. BoxHALL. He was standing alone at that time.
Senator Smith. Did you see him on the boat deck or on the bridge
when you entered the lifeboat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No: I can not sav that I did.
Senator Smith. On which side was the lifeboat that you were on ?
Ikfr. BoxHALL. The port side.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Lightoller there ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not see Mr. Lightoller.
Senator Smith. Was he on tlie port side ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes. I think most of the time that I saw Mr.
Lightoller he was working on that side, but in the latter part I did not
see him.
Senator Smith. Do you know wliether he had charge of that side
in loading these lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. Well, I do not know that he had charge when the
chief officer was there. The chief officer, I mean, who was there when
my boat was sent away.
Senator Smith. Do you refer to the captain when you say the
chief officer?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I refer to the chief officer, Mr. Wilde?
Senator Smith. The captain was there also ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; but Mr. Wilde superintended the loading of the
boat.
Senator Smith. Mr. Wilde superintended lowering the boats on the
port side ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not say the boats on the port side; I say he
superintended the boat I was on.
Senator Smith. That boat was on the port side ?
Mr. Boxhall. That was on the port side.
Senator Smith. So, if Mr. Lightoller took charge of the port side in
lowering these boats he did so after you left ?
Mr. Boxhall. He was working down the port side most of the time
right from the first. I never saw Mr. Lightoller on the starboard
side. Whenever I did see him it was on the port side.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. On the starboard side ?
Mr. Boxhall. I saw Mr. Murdock on the port side at times.
Senator Smith. But you do not know whether he had charge of the
lifeboats on the starboard side or not?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not know.
Senator Smith. You say you did not see Mr. Ismay after you saw
him on the bridge and before the order had been given to clear the
lifeboats or lower the lifeboats ?
( I „, f 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 247
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not see him; no, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you next see him?
Mr. BoxuALL. When he came alongside in the collapsible boat
outside of the Carpathia,
Senator Smit^. Do you know what boat that was ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know any number; it was a collapsible
boat. X
Senator Smfth. How soon did it appear at the side of the Carpathia
after you reached there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It was one of the last boats that came.
Senator Smith. And it was a collapsible boat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes ; it was a collapsible boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know the number ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know any number of it.
Senator Smith. Do you know who was in it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Mr. Carter was in it. I saw Mr. Carter.
Senator SMrrn. Who was Mr. Carter?
Mr. BoxHALL. A passenger.
Senator Smith. Wliere does he reside ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I have not the slightest idea.
Senator Smith. Is he an American ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know that either.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Carter in this same boat with Mr. Ismay I
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were there any other men in that boat?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I saw some men who looked to me like Fili-
pinos.
Senator Smith. Foreigners ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. How many ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know whether there were three or four of
them.
Senator Smith. Were there any women or children in the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; it was full of them.
Senator Smith. How many were in the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I will not say that it was full of women and children.
Now 1 come to think of it, there was a foreigner there, a steerage pas-
senger who could not speak English — a man.
Senator Smith. How many of these Filipinos were there ?
Mr. Boxhall. Three or four.
Senator Smith. And Mr. Ismay, Mr. Carter, and this foreigner who
could not speak English ?
Mr. BoxHAix. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were there anv other men in there ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not that I know of; I can not say. I did not take
that much notice. One did not stop to look what men were there in
the boats or who they were; it was just a case of passing them out.
Senator Smith. Exactly; but could you see wno held the oars or
who propeUed the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; I did not notice that.
Senator Smith. About how long after you arrived before the other
boats arrived ?
Mr. Boxhall. The first boat did not arrive until at least half an
hour after I arrived there.
248 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. You arrived there and had a half hour intervene ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; and then I had passed up crews from either
two or three boats from that same gangway before Mr. Ismay came.
Senator Smith. Was it daylight ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It was quite dayUght; yes.
Senator Smith. Was the Carpathia under steam ?
• Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; not at that time.
Senator Smith. How far do you think she was from the place where
the Titanic sunk. ?
Mr. BoxHALL. When was this, sir ?
Senator Smith. When Mr. Ismay's boat appeared.
Mr. BoxHALL. I can not say that, either, because we puUed ofT a
little way, as the Carpathia was steaming toward our green lights.
Senator Smith. She saw your lights ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, were there any other Ughts
visible on the lifeboats except those on your boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I saw some lifeboat lights, but the usual lifeboat's
lights. They were very dim, small lamps.
Senator Smith. If all those lifeboats had been lighted, it would have
impressed itself upon you, would it not ?
Mr. Boxhall. Lighteil the same
Senator Smith. Tne same as yours ?
Mr. Boxhall. But this was a box of green lights that happened to
be thrown into the boat.
Senator Smith. Accidentally ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; not accidentally.
Senator Smith. Intentionallv ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; because I told the man to put them in.
Senator Smith. Was it a part of the equipment of tne boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; it was not a part of tne equipment; but I told
him to put them in for anybody that would happen to find them.
Senator Smith. I see. And after the boat was lowered you lighted
them?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did they make a brilliant light ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; a very briUiant light.
Senator Smith. You think the Carpathia steamed toward these
Ughts?
1^. Boxhall. They did.
Senator Smith. And you say that is the reason they reached you
first?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you notice any lights buminff on any of the
other lifeboats when you had boarded the Carpamiaf I assume
that you were looking at these boats.
Mr. Boxhall. When I had boarded the Carpathia^ no.
Senator Smith. No other lights were visible on other lifeboats?
Mr Boxhall. No; because it was dayUght. It was daylight be-
fore I got my passengers on board the ship.
Senator Smith. WeU, that is all right. But let us clear up the
Ught business just a httle more, so that we may have an accurate
record on that point. Could you say of your own knowledge that
any other lifeboat than the one you were in had lights burning on it
<t ^*».^**^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER, 249
when it came alongside or just preceding its coining alongside of the
Carpaihiat
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw several of the boats — in fact all of the life-
boats— ^when I was in my boat; which had lighted lamps in them.
Senator Smith. Had lamps in them ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Had lamps in them — before I saw the CarpcUhia.
Senator Smith. Before you saw the CarpcUhiaf
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Where were those lights displayed ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I was not close enoum to see.
Senator Smith. Where would they be displayed — on the forward
end?
Mr. BoxHALL. Usually by the man who steers the boat.
Senator Smith. Back of tne tiller ?
Mr. BoxHALL. In the bottom of the boat, not back of the tiller
Senator Smith. I do not mean back of the tiller, but back near
the tiller.
Mr. BoxHALL. Just in the bottom of the boat. I could see the
reflection of the lights; J did not see the Ughts themselves.
Senator Smith. But you are not ready to say that they all had
lights burning, are you)
Mr. BoxHALL. No; not that they all had hghts burning; but I saw*
several.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Boxhall, did you personally become
acquainted with any of the American passengers on that boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. On what boat?
Senator Smith. On the Titanic.
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; not until after the accident. After we
got on board the Carpathia I met one or two.
Senator Smith. But were you aware at any time between South-
ampton and the place of this accident of the presence on shipboard
of a large number of Americans ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you at any time learn who they were ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes ; by glancing through the passenger list.
Senator Smith. Can you tell anv names that you now particularly
recall?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I recall that Col. Astor and his wife were
aboard.
Senator Smith. You recall that you saw Col. Astor^s name on this
list?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see him or his wife personally ?
Mr. Boxhall. I have seen him walking on the top deck.
Senator Smith. Did you know who he was ?
Mr. Boxhall. One of the officers — I think it was one of the officers
who told me.
Senator Smith. Anv other Americans ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not know any others that I could name.
Senator Smith. Any Canadians of prominence?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senatoi Smith. Or anjr other passengers of prominence or any
other passenger at all whose name }rOu lemember?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I do not remember the names of them.
250 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you see Col. Astor atter this collision occurred i
Mr. BoxHALL. No, su*.
Senator Smith. Or nis wife ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I never saw his wife at all.
Senator Smith. Do jjou know what part of the ship they were in?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; I have not the slightest idea.
Senator Smith. I mean as to their quarters.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I understand what >ou mean.
Senator Smith. Did you know of the presence of any other Ameri-
cans than the ones you have mentioned particularly ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. About how long, if you remember, before you
reached the side of the Carpathia did you see these lights extinguished
on the Titanicf
Mr. BoxHALL. Befoie I boarded the Carpathiaj you say?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. BoxHALL. Before I boarded -the Carpathia; well, the Titanic* 8
lights seem to have disappeared some considerable time before I
boarded the Carpathia, because I saw tlie Carpathians lights for some
considerable time.
Senator Smith. After you boarded the Carpathia during that early
morning, Monday morning, or after you left the Titanic^s side, did
you see any icebergs ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not until I got within about two or three ship's
lengths of the Carpathia, when I saw her engines were stoppe<i —
then I saw the icebergs; it was just breaking daylight then.
Senator Smith. Where were they ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Close to the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. How close ?
Mr. BoxHALL. He seemed to have stopped within half a mile or
quarter of a mile of the berg.
Senator Smith. How many did you see ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Numerous bergs. As daylight broke I saw them.
Senator Smith. About how many ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I would not Uke to say.
Senator Smith. More than two ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Certainly more than twp. Several bergs.
Senator Smith. That is four or five or six ?
Mr. Boxhall. And field ice. I could see field ice then as far as the
eye could see.
Senator Smith. How large were these icebergs ?
Mr. Boxhall. Well, I did not see any of them considered large
icebergs — not Uke one sees in the Canadian trade.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the captain of the Carpaihia testify
last Friday morning in New York ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was up there when he started, but I did not stay
in the committee room.
Senator Smith. Did you hear him say that he'saw icebergs Monday
morning, or an iceberg that was nearly 200 feet high ?
Mr. SoxHALL. No, sir; I did not hear him say that.
Senator Smith. You say that you were within about half a mile of
an iceberg and that the Carpathia was within that range of one ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I should say she would be well within half a
mile of an iceberg when I boarded her.
ii »..».«« 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 251
Senator Smith. How did tliis iceberg look to you ? I mean as to
• olor ?
Mr. BoxHALL. White.
Senator Smith. Did they all look about the same color ?
Mr. BoxHALL. They looked white to me in the sunlight.
Senator Smith. Was the sun up then ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; but after the sun got up they looked wliite.
Senator Smith. In the early morning, at the dawn — daybreak ?
Mr. Boxhall. No ; at daybreak they looked quite black.
Senator Smith. Was it after daybreak when you got alongside of
the CarjHUhiaf
Mr. Boxhall. Day was breaking. I only saw them a httle while
before I got to the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. Do you care to correct your statement that they
appeared wliite when you first saw them ?
Mr. Boxhall. They did not appear white when I first saw them.
Senator Smith. How did they appear ?
Mr. Boxhall. They appeared black.
Senator Smith. After you boarded the Carpathiaj while she was
cruising around the scene of the wreck, did you see other icebeigs?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say. There were numerous icebergs;
that is the easiest way or the best way to express it.
Senator Smith. Did you 4iBtinguish between an iceberg and a
growler, or are they the same thing in the lan^age of mariners ?
Mr. Boxhall. i es, I do make a distinction oet ween an iceberg and
a growler.
Senator Smith. Let us have that distinction.
Mr. Boxhall. As I understand a growler, it is a low-lying iceberg.
Senator Smith. Partially submerged ?
Mr. Boxhall. They are aU submerged; but I mean one lying, it
might be, very largely on the surface of the water, but not nigh; it
mieht be large or it might be small, but it is low lying.
Senator Smith. And the larger it gets
Mr. BoxHAix. Then it gets !o be L iceberg?
Senator Smith. There is another kind of ice that you encounter
Mr. Boxhall. Field ice.
Senator Smith. Off the Great Banks.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. What is that?
Mr. Boxhall. Field ice is a lot ol ice all together.
Senator Smith. like a raft ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; not unlike a raft, I should say. It is a large
expanse of ice covering the water.
^nator Smith. Level with the surface ?
Mr. Boxhall. No ; a httle above the surface.
Senator Smith. Rising above the surface ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just a little above the surface.
Senator Smith. And extending over how much area i I suppose
they vary, but how much area have you seen covered ?
Mr. Boxhall. With ice ?
Senator Smith. With ice on the sea, in the vicinity of the Great
Banks.
252 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. This is the first time that I have seen field ice on the
Great Banks.
Senator Smith. You have never seen it on the Great Banks before ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No.
Senator Smith. And you have been on the Great Banks before ?
Mr. BoxHALL, Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. How often ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I have been running to New York since I was 19
years of age.
Senator Smith. And you have never seen any field ice ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I have seen icebergs, but have never seen any field
ice before.
Senator Smith. Was the ship on its usual course ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Have you ever crossed at this time of the year
before ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes; many times.
Senator Smith. Can you tell what the theory of the navigator is as
to where these icebergs and growlers and field ice come from ?
Mr. BoxHALL. As far as I understand, they come from the Arctic
region.
Senator Smith. What are they composed of, if you know ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Some people who have been ver}^ close to them tell
me that they have seen sand and gravel and rocks and things of that
kind in them.
Senator Smith. Rocks and other substances ?
Mr. BoxHALL. And earth. I have never been close enough to see
that.
Senator Smith. I suppose you mean the iceberg when you say that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The icebergs; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And those icebergs are supposed to come from the
Arctic regions ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; so I beheve.
Senator Smith. And float down into the open sea ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. How far east have you ever seen them?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know how far east I have seen them. It
has been many years since I have seen any until this time.
Senator Smith. Is it understood by mariners, navigators, that
they are more frequent in the latitude of the Great BanKs ?
Mr. Boxhall. Around 50 west; 47 to 50 west, I think, as near as
I can remember.
Senator Smith. From 47 to 50 west they are known to exist ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. And it is customary to be particularly careful in
that vicinity ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Well, how did it happen that in that identical
vicinity it was not thought necessary to increase the lookout ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know. The lookout mav have been
increased ; I can not say. I was busy most of the watch in the chart
room, making calculations.
Senator Smith. As far as you know, of your own knowledge, it
was not ?
ii ..»-.. ^— ^ ff
TITANIO DISASTER. 253
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not hear any extra lookouts reported as being
put on.
Senator Smith. You did not see any extra officers that night for-
Mrard on the bridge deck ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No.
Senator Smith. How far did the CarpcUMa run on Monday before
she was out of sight of the icebergs?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Were you not observing the situation ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Between the time that you left the Titanic and the
morning dawned did you see any icebergs?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; but I know that it was there.
Senator Smith. You loiew they were there ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Any growlers ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw nothing; but I heard the water on the ice as
soon as the lights went out on the ship.
Senator Smith. That water, you think, was on the ice, after the
boat went down? That is, you could hear something?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In that vicinity ?
Mr. BoxHALL. A little while after the ship's lights went out and the
cries subsided, then I found out that we were near the ice.
Senator Smith. You could hear it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. Does your statement also cover the field ice ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; it covers all the ice, sir. I heard the water
rumbling or breaking on the ice. Then I knew that there was a lot of
ice about, but I could not see it from the boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know what precautions the captain of the
Carpathia took when lie found himself among ice ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he doubled his lookout ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know.
Senator Smith. He proceeded toward New York how long after all
the lifeboats had been raised ?
Mr. BoxHAix. Approximately, I should say, well on in the forenoon,
when he set the course to New York.
Senator Smith. That is, 9 or 10 o'clock?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I think it was well after that. We were steam-
ing around the wreckage for quite a long time. I did not notice the
time, but it must have been quite late in the forenoon.
Senator Smith. Steaming around
Mr. Boxhall. Steaming around the scene of disaster.
Senator Smith. Where were you when they were steaming around ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was on the Ibridgo for a few minutes shortly after
we got the boats on board.
Senator Smith. For how long ?
Mr. Boxhall. About a quarter of an hour, I think.
Senator Smith. And remained on the bridge of the Carpathia after
the boats were all raised ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see any bodies floating in the water?
ii .^».«^*^ ff
854 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. BoxHALL. I remained on the bridge until he started ofF for
New York direct; I do not know what time that was.
Senator Smith. Did you see any floating bodies ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw one floating body, sir.
Senator Smith. A man or woman ?
Mr. BoxHALL. A man; sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the face distinctly ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I could not. It had a life preserver on.
Senator Smith. Dead.
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes; quite dead.
Senator Smith. How do you know ?
Mr. Boxhall. We could see by the way the body was lying.
Senator Smith. What is the ordinary position of a dead body in
the water with a life preserver on ?
Mr. Boxhall. This body looked as if the man was lying as if lie
had fallen asleep with his face over his arm.
Senator Smith. On his side ?
Mr. Boxhall. On liis side.
Senator Smith. Were you near enough to describe liis features ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that the onl}^ body you saw?
i/li. Boxhall. That is the only body 1 saw.
Senator Smith. The only body you saw either dead or alive ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; dead or alive.
Senator Smith. There must have been hundreds of bodies in the
water about the Titanic.
Mr. Boxhall. No one ever saw any at all.
Senator Smith. You say they were all equipped with life belts ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not remember seeing anybody without a life
belt.
Senator Smith. Did you know of any persons refusing to enter the
lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; only by hearsay.
Senator Smith. Did you hear that many had refused to enter the
lifeboats ?
Mr. Boxhall. I heard it on board the Carpathian that some of
them had refused.
Senator Smith. Well, those on board the Carpathia had not refused.
You heard that others had refused ?
Mr. Boxhall. I heard that others had refused.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any names given of those who had
refused ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know; I may have heard the names and
not taken any notice, not knowing them.
Senator Smith. Could you repeat them ?
Mr. Boxhall. No ; I could not.
Senator Smith. Any of them ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, I could not.
Senator Smith. Were any of the names you heard the names of
women as well as men ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Did you see any person — man, woman, or child —
who refused to get into a lifeboat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
(< «.^.^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 255
Senator Smith. Did you see any man, woman, or child refused
permission to get into a lif eboat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any man, woman, or child ejected from
a lifeboat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any man or woman attempt to reach a
lifeboat while you were on the deck or when your lifeboat was in the
water?
Mr. Boxhall. Do you mean to rush it or get in quietly ?
Senator Smith. To struggle to get in ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. To try to get in or attempt to get in ?•
Mr. Boxhall. I saw several get in, but all I saw try to get in got in.
Senator Smith. Did you see any get in from the water ?
Mr. Boxhall. No.
Senator Smith. Did you see anyone in the water attempt to get in ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not see anyone in the water. It was dark, sir.
Senator Smith. So you could not see anyone?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not see anybody in the water. I was looking
around for them, keeping my eyes open, but I did not see anyone.
Senator Smith. If you had seen some one in the water, what would
you have done ?
Mr. Boxhall. Taken them in the boat at once.
Senator Smith. No matter whether its capacity was apparently
tested or not ?
Mr. Boxhall. I should have taken them in the boat.
Senator Smith. You would not have left them ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir. *
Senator Smith. If you had seen any struggling man or woman in
the water
Mr. Boxhall. I should have taken them in as far as safety would
allow, but I did not see anyone in the water.
Senator Smith. That particular morning the water was calm ?
Mr. Boxhall. Perfectly calm.
Senator Smith. And unruffled, was it ?
Mr. Boxhall. Perfectly calm.
Senator Smith. So that each boat could have accommodated its
full capacity ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Safely ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many people were in your boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I estimate about 25, as near as I can tell.
Senator Smith. Was that its full capacity ?
Mr. Boxhall. I reckoned between 25 and 30 that the boat had in
her. I did not find out exactly how many she had. I think 30
would be about all she could carry.
Senator Smith. You did not count them ?
Mr. Boxhall. I tried to count them.
Senator Smith. But you did not succeed ? .
Mr. Boxhall. There were some people in the boat that did not
speak English, who did not answer.
Senator Smith. But you could count them ?
266 TITAKIO DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not count them.
Senator Smith. You could not see them or could not make them
answer ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not make them answer.
Senator SMrrn. You tried to count them by having each
Mr. BoxHALL. Sing out his number.
Senator Smith. Sing out his number?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you could not see with your eyes sufficiently
plainly to count them ?
lIMr. Boxhall. No, sir; I could not. Then I found out that I had
more people in the boat than I thought I had, perhaps.
Senator Smith. How many did you have ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not count tnem, sir.
Senator Smith. But you found you had more than you thought
you had ? How did you find that out ?
Mr. Boxhall. By the time it took me to discharge that boat in
smooth water — they were crawling out from under thwarts and
everywhere. That is the way I found it out.
Senator Fletcher. You were not in a lifeboat ?
Mr. Boxhall. In a small lifeboat.
Senator Fletcher. Not a coUapsible boat ?
ilr. Boxhall. No, sir; not a collapsible boat.
Senator Fletcher. A sea boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You divide them into three classes of boats:
First, the lifeboats that hold 65 people; second, the sea boats that
hold 25 or 30 ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And the collapsible boats ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. You were not in a lifeboat ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was in a sea boat.
Senator Newlands. Just let me ask you one question. You say
you could not see any of those icebergs until dawn, but you heard the
lapping of the water?
Mr. Boxhall. Will you repeat that question ?
Senator Newlands. I understand you to say that you could not
see any of those icebergs until dawn, but that you heard the lapping
of the water against the icebergs ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; that is what I said.
Senator Newlands. That was a clear night, was it 1
Mr. Boxhall. Perfectly clear; starlight; you could almost see the
stars set.
Senator Newlands. How do you account for the fact that you
could not see the icebergs, if the night was so clear ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know. I do not know what it was about it.
I could not understand. Of course, sound travels quite a long way
on the water, and being so close to the water, and it being such a calm
night, you would probably hear the water lapping on those bergs for
quite a long, long ways..
Senator Newlands. In your experience on the water, have you
come across many icebergs prior to this time?
i< .^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 257
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes ; I have come across a good few, I suppose.
Senator Newlands. It is always difficult to see them at night ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, not always; not always. On such a night as
that, even if there is no moon, you can verv, very often see an iceberg
by the water on the sides of it; that is, if there is a little breeze. But
¥men the water is in one of those oily calms
Senator Newlands. Will you speak a little louder ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It was like an oily calm when the Titanic struck,
and for a long, long time after we were in the boats, and you could not
see anything at all then.
Senator Newlands. You judge of the presence of icebergs, then, by
the appearance of the water around the icebergs and not by the sight
of ber^ themselves; is that it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. On such a night as that, yes.
Senator Newlands. And wneti the sea is smooth it i^ difficult,
then, to discern this appearance ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes. I think if there had been a little ripple on the
waters we should have stood a very good chance of seeing that ice-
berg in time to miss it — in time to clear it.
Senator Smith. We will adjourn now until 10 o'clock to-morrow
morning, and I desire to ask vou to be present promptly in the morn-
ing, Mr. Boxhall, and we will try and hasten our examination as fast
as possible.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
At 6.20 p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow,
Tuesday, April 23, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
" TIT_A.lSriO "
rr^ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF TJIE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION ,
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OP THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 4
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTOir
GOVERKMBNT PRINTINO OFFICE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OP^ THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Uniteo States Senate.
WILLIAIC ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman.
eSORQE C. PERKINS, California. F. M*. SIMMONS, North CaroUna.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oregon. FRANCIS O. NEWLANDS, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTBT, Clerk,
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Page.
Fleet, Frederick 315
Peuchen, Maj. Arthur C 329
Pitman, Herbert John 259
in
t t
TITANIC '' DISASTER.
TUESDAY, APBIL 83| 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commebcb,
United States Senate,
WasMiigtonj u. 0.
The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators William Alden Smith (chairman), Perkins, Biir-
ton, Newlands, and Fletcher.
Senator Smith. When we closed the hearing yesterday afternoon
!Mr. Boxhall, the third officer of the Titanic, was on the stand. It
had been the intention of the committee to recall him this morning
and the reason for not doing so is the following note:
April 23, 1912.
Thu is to certify that Mr. J. B. Boxhall, third officer of the Titanic j is under my
profeasional care and treatment and that, in my opinion, he is physically unable to
appear before the Senate investigating committee to-day.
Charleb C. Mabbubt, M. D.
TESTIM017T OF HEBBERT JOHN PITMAIT— Becalled.
Senator Smith. As I recall it, Mr. Pitman, you were examined in
New York with reference to the log only ?
Mr. Pitman. That is right, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you, at that time, give your full name?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. You may repeat it now, please.
Mr. Pitman. Herbert John Pitman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside, Mr. Pitman ?
Mr. Pitman. Somerset, England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Pitman. Thirty-four.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Pitman. Sailor; officer.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in marine employ-
ment?
Mr. Pitman. About 17 years.
Senator Smith. Did you have any marine education or instruction
as navigator before entering that employment ?
Mr. Pitman. None whatever.
S^iAtor Smith. In what capacities have you served ?
Mr. Pitman. Four years as an apprentice; three years as an officer
in a sailing ship.
Senator Smith. In stating your employment, will you idndly state
with what line or upon what ship you served ?
259
J
tt .-„.«^»^ 99
260 TITANIC DI8A8TEB.
Mr. Pitman. Yes. Four years with James Nourse (Ltd.), as an
apprentice; three years as an officer in the same employ: about
twelve months in the Blue Anchor Line, running to Australia; six
months in the Shire Line, nmning to Japan; and five years with the
White Star.
Senator Smith. In what capacity did you serve with the White
Star ?
Mr. PrrMAN. Second, third, and fourth officer; second officer for
two months.
Senator Smith. On what vessels of the White Star Line have you
served ?
Mr. PmiAN. On the Dolphin, the Majestic, and the Oceamc.
Senator Smith. And the Titanic t
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. When did you first see the Titanic?
Mj. Pftman. In Belfast.
Senator Smith. Can you recall the day i
Mr. Pitman. I think it was March 27.
Senator Smith. Of this year 1
Mr. Pitman. Of this year.
Mr. BuBLiNOHAM. I think he holds a master's certificate. Senator,
too, if you care to bring that out.
Senator Smith. Do jou hold a master's certificate ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir. I have had it seven years.
Senator Smith. From whom ?
Mr. Pitman. From the board of trade.
Senator Smith. You say you first saw the Titanic at Belfast ?
Mr. PmcAN. Yes, sir* March 27, if I remember right.
Senator Smith. March 27 ?
Mp. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you present during the trial tests of the
Titanic?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take any special part in them t
Mr. Pitman. Yes ; I was on the bridge most of the time.
Senator Smith. Of what did these teste consist 1
Mr. Pitman. Just steaming around and performing evolutions.
Senator Smith. Turning circles ?
^. Pitman. Turning circles and adjusting the compass.
Senator Smith. How long did those tests take ?
Mr. Pitman. About eight hours, sir.
Senator Smith. Were the tests made in the open sea, or in Belfast
Lou^h?
lifi. Pitman. Both. sir.
Senator Smith. What tests were made in the open sea f
Mr. Pitman. Oh. simply steaming trials.
Senator Smith. What trials ?
Mi*. Pitman. Steam trials.
Senator Smith. Did you try out her speed ? Did you try out the
speed of the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. It was not exactly a trial of her speed; because I un-
derstand we have none in the White Star Line.
Senator Smith. Then there was no trial of speed there to your
knowledge ?
t* ,«*».«.**^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 261
Mr. Pitman. Not as regards the measured mile.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many boilers were working?
Mr. Pitman. I have no idea, sir.
Senator Smith. After the trial tests were made, where did you go
then ?
Mr. Pitman. We proceeded to Southampton.
Senator Smith. During the trial tests aid you see any officer or
director of the White Star Line, or of the International Co., aboard
the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not know any of them, sir; so that I can not say.
Senator Smith. What time did you reach Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. At midnight on Thursday, the 29th oi March.
Senator Smith. At midnight on Thursday, the 29th of March ?
Mr. Pitman. I think that is the correct date.
Senator Smith. What was done then with the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. She was simply made fast in her berth.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Pitman. I kept my usual watch.
Senator Smith. Did you remain aboard the ship until her departure
from Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. When it was my watch, sir.
Senator Smith. And when it was not your watch you busied your-
self in other ways ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Off the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. I Wish you would teU the committee the circum-
stances of the departure of the Titanic from Southampton — whether
the weather was clear, whether there was any sea, and any other
circumstance that you can recall.
Mr. Pitman. We left the dock at 12.15. The weather was very
fine.
Senator Smith. You left at 12.15 a. m.?
Mr. Pftman. P.m. Nothing in particular happened
Senator SMnn. 12.15 p. m. of wnat day?
Mr. Pitman. Wednesday, April 10.
Nothing exciting happened, with the exception of breaking the
moorings of the New YorJcy which was caused W the backwash from
our starboard propeller. We managed to get clear of that and pro-
ceeded to Cheroourg.
Senator Smith. Was that a serious detention ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; about half an hour, sir; that is all.
Senator Smith. Did that occur immediately when you were ready
to start ?
Mr. Pitman. We had already started. We were away from our
berth.
Senator Smith. Officer, what was the weather ?
Mr. Pitman. Perfect weather. Summer weather.
Senator Smith. Was the weather good all the way to the place of
the collision ?
Mr. Pitman. From the time we left Southampton.
Senator Smith. You had no heavy sea ?
IAt. Pitman. None whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. So far as you can recall, did you have a starlit sky 1
262 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. We had a starlit sky; yes. We had sky observations
every night and every morning.
Senator Smith. You, of course, knew Officer Murdock ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, sir.
Senator Smith. The second officer ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. And but four of the officers of the Titanic survived %
Mr. Pitman. Four. That is correct, sir.
Senator Smith. Three besides yourself ?
Mi, Pitman. Three besides myself.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee what your
duties were when you were on watch.
Mr. Pitman. Mv duties comprised working out celestial observa-
tions, finding the deviation of the compass, general supervision around
the decks, and looking after the quartermasters; also relieving the
bridge if necessary.
Senator Smith. Was it a part of your duty to drill the men ?
Afr. Pitman. No, not exactly to drill them, sir; to give them work.
Senator Smith. Was it a part of your duty to go through practice
with the men ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir. I gave them their work.
Senator Smith. You gave them their work ?
Mr. Pitman. I told them what to do; the quartermasters only, sir-
Senator Smith. Are there anv specified times fixed for drill of the
men under the practice of the White Star Line ?
Mr. Pitman. What do you mean. Senator? Do you mean boat
drill, sir ? •
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. Yes. We always have boat drill leaving Southampton
Senator Smith. On leaving Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; which is witnessed by the board of trade. We
also have boat drill in Queenstown.
Senator Smith. Of what did that drill consist ?
Mr. Pitman. Lowering two or three boats into the water and pull-
ing away.
Senator Smith. It consisted of lowering two or three lifeboats %
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you present when that was done ?
Mr. Pitman. It was not done this time, sir; not in Queenstown.
Senator Smith. I understood you to say at Southampton?
Mr. Pitman. At Southampton it was done.
Senator Smith. Were you present at that drill ?
Mr. Pitman. I was, sir.
Senator Smith. How many boats were lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Two, sir.
Senator Smith. On the starboard or on the port side ?
Mr. Pitman. On the starboard side.
Senator Smfih. Both ?
Mr. Pitman. Both on the starboard side ; yes.
Senator Smith. What else was done at that drill ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, there was nothing, sir. That drill took place
simply to satisfy the board of trade that the boats were all right, and
that the men knew how to pull an oar.
<< *. ^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 263
Senator Smith. But what I would like to know is just what it was
necessary to do in order to satisfy the board of trade.
Mr. Pitman. Well, put a crew of men in the boat, lower her into
the water, and pull her around the harbor and sail her back to the
satisfaction of the board of trade officials.
Senator Smith. That was the lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. And two of them were lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Two of them were lowered.
Senator Smith. And manned 1
Mr. Pitman. Manned.
Senator Smith. And rowed about ?
Mr. Pitman. Rowed about the harbor, and sailed back. It is
done every trip, and we vary the boats.
Senator Smith. How many men were in each boat that day ?
Mr. Pitman. Approximately eight.
Senator Smith. Were there eight in each boat that day ?
Mr. Pitman. Approximately eight.
Mr. Burlinoham. Mr. Chairman, mav I suggest that you ask
whether the men on board were assignedf to the various boats ?
Senator Smith. I am coming to that. Tell me whether any further
time was spent in practice than you have described ?
Mr. Pitman. Not on this particular voyage. It is customary
every Sunday to have boat and fire drill. If we can not have it on
Sunday, if the weather does not permit that, we have it on some other
dav.
^nator Smith. As a matter of fact, no further drill was had on
the Titanic after leaving Southampton, was there?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And this drill consisted in summoning how many
officers and men to the deck ?
Mr. Pitman. All the deck department were there.
Senator Smith. And they alt witnessed, and approximately 16 of
them participated in, the practical test of two lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator SMrrn. Were they both lifeboats, or were they of a different
tyne ?
aIt. PrrMAN. They were both lifeboats.
Senator Smith. Tjiere was no test, then, of the collapsibies ?
Mr. PrrMAN. No; none whatever.
Senator SMrrn. Or of the smaller lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And both these boats were lowered from the star-
board side ?
Mr. Pitman. From the starboard side.
Senator Smith. And you saw them lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What officers were placed in charge of them ?
Mr. PrrMAN. The fifth and sixth.
Senator Smith. Who composed the crews of these lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. Quartermasters and sailors. I could not give you
their names.
Senator SMrrn. They were sailors ?
Mr. Pitman. Sailors; yes.
264 TITANIC DISASTEK.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether each officer had his
especial and particular station assigned to him on the Titanic f
Mr. Pitman. Every man in the crew had his particular station on
the Titanic.
Senator Smith. And your station was what ?
Mr. Pitman. No. 5 boat.
Senator Smith. No. 5 boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say they were assigned. You were assigned
to No. 5 boat, and had responsibility for that boat while you were
on watch in the event of trouble ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. It was not necessary that I should go in No.
5 boat.
Senator Smith. No; but you were assigned at that point?
Mr. Pitman. Yes ; that was mv boat for boat and nre drill.
Senator Smith. For boat and fire drill. Was there any fire drill
aboard the Titanic after you left Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. There was not, sir.
Senator Smith. And the only practice drill was what you have
described ?
Mr. Pitman. That is all.
Senator Smith. Were you on the bridge during Saturday or Sunday
preceding the accident ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh^es; part of the time, sir.
Senator Smith. What part of the time on Saturday ?
Mr. Pitman. Saturday afternoon from 12 to 4.
Senator Smith. During that time did you see any icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or any field ice ?
Mr. Pitman. No ice at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything about any ice on Saturday ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything about a wireless message
from the Califomianf
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On Saturday or Sunday ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; I heard something about a wireless message
from some ship. Or it may have been Saturday night; I am not sure.
Senator Smith. When you Were on watch ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I was not on watch.
Senator Smith. When did you hear it, as near as you can recoUect 1
Mr. Pitman. I have not the slightest idea, sir; it was either Satur-
day night or Sunday morning.
Senator Smith. Not when you were on watch ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; because Mr. Boxhall put on the chart the posi-
tion of the iceberg.
Senator Smith. And did you know about that ?
Mr. Pitman. I knew about that; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him put it on or see the chart ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; I saw the mark there.
Senator Smith. What kind of a mark was it ?
Mr. Pitman. He would just simply make a cross and write "ice*^ in
front of it.
Senator Smith. Which indicated ice ?
i( -.»..«^^ }9
TTTANIO DISASTER. 265
Mr. Pitman. Ice: yes, sir.
Senator Smith. THis was Sunday ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been Saturday night.
Senator Smith. Saturday night or Sunday ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, officer, did you have any talk with Mr. Box-
hall or Mr. Murdock or Mr. Lowe regarding the proximity of the
Titanic to ice ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not; sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with the captain about it ?
Mr. Pitman. It was not my place to talk with the captain about
such things.
Senator Smith. I understand; but I did not know but what you
might have done so.
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the captain speak to you about it ?
Mr. PrrMAN. He did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you with the captain on the bridge at all on
Saturday afternoon or Sunday preceding the collision ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; he used to pay penodical visits to the bridge.
Senator Smith. How often ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not particularly notice that.
Senator Smith. About now often; how many times?
Mr. Pitman. He may have been up there a naif a dozen times in a
watch.
Senator Smith. Half a dozen times in four hours ?
^ii. Pitman. Four hours; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And during those visits to the bridge you can not
recall hearing the ca|)tain speak about proximity to ice ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any ice, yourself, on Sunday ? Did
you notice any change m the temperature of the weather ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. That would not denote anything at all, sir.
Senator Smith. You do not think that would denote anything?
Mr. Pitman. No, because in this country and in our own country
we will probably want no clothes on at all, and the next day we will
want overcoats, winter clothes, and that is not due to ice.
Senator Smith. You have been a navigator for a good many years ?
Mr. Pitman. I have been an officer for about 14 years.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been up to the Grand Banks before ?
Mr. Pitman. The Banks of Newfoundland ?
Senator Smith. Yes; crossing them in the months of August to
January ? Did you ever cross them before in the month of April ?
Mr. Pitman. We never did, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen any ice in that part of the sea,
the North Atlantic?
Mr. Pitman. One small berg.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not recollects exactly where it was, sir.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, do you not know that before
ice is seen at all from the deck of a ship the ice will often indicate its
presence? Does not the reflection of the rays from the sun or the
moon tell some definite 3tory about the proximity of ice ?
266 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Pitman. It may do so in the Arctic region, but never in the
Atlantic Ocean.
Senator Smith. Never in the north Atlantic Ocean ?
Mr. Pitman. There is not sufficient ice there to cause that.
Senator Smith. On a clear day, over the ice on the horizon is it not
true that the sky is much paler or lighter in color and distinguishable
from that overhead ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In the north Atlantic ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On a clear day icebergs can be seen for a long dis-
tance, can they not ?
Mr. Pitman. It depends on their size.
Senator Smith. If they are, say, a hundred feet high.
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Readilv ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes; they can be seen some distance. Of course
it depends on the atmosphere, and whether the sun is shining or not.
Senator Smith. Does roggy weather make any difference m seeing
an iceberg?
Mr. Pitman. Of course you would not see it so far.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, during foggy weather are not
icebergs seen through the fog by their apparent olackness ?
Mr. Pitman. That may be so. I have never seen them, though.
Senator Smith. You have never seen them. Are there any other
signs known to mariners by wliich icebergs may be discovered, or
their proximity known?
Mr. Pitman. I do not think there are any signs at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Is it not a fact that there is an echo in the vicinity
of an iceberg ?
Mr. Pitman. I never heard of it, sir.
Senator Smith. From a steam wliistle or foghorn ?
Mr. Pitman. I never experienced it, sir.
Senator Smith. You heard what Mr. Boxhall said yesterday about
knowing that there were icebergs because he could hear the wash
while he was going in the lifeboat from the Titanic to the Carpathia?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, that is quite possible, because we were only
about half a mile from them then, or possibly less than that. There
was perfect silence.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard such noises as that ?
Mr. Pitman. Never, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how the proximity of an iceberg can
be tested, mathematical! v ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever hear of it ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir. As regards the temperature of the water, it
is absolutelv useless.
Senator Smith. The temperature of the water is absolutely useless ?
Mr. Pitman. Absolutely useless.
Senator Smith. In your opinion ?
Mr. Pitman. I have proven it.
Senator Smith. Has anybody ever told you that, knowing the
time between the blast of a whistle at sea and the reflected sound, the
distance in feet may be found by multiplying by a certain numeral t
(( -»,-,. ^^*., yy
TITANIC DISASTER. 267
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Five hundred and fifty ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And none of these signs were familiar to you ?
Mr. Pitman. None, whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever hear anything about them before ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How about the explosion of an iceberg? Do you
know that icebergs explode when they come down from the Arctic
region and strike the warmer Gulf stream ; that the cold and the heat
often cause a loud explosion?
Mr. Pitman. Scientists say so, but we have no proof of that.
Senator Smith. You have never found it so ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And have never heard these explosions ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Sb«th. Have vou ever thought that the absence of swell
or wave motion in a fresh breeze is a sign that there is land or ice on
the weather side of the ship?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you regard the presence of seal herds or flocks
of birds as in any way indicating the proximity of land ?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly not.
Senator Smith. Or icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly not. We have them in the southern ocean
all the way across, for thousands of miles — flocks of birds.
Senator Smith. Do you ever have any ice in the southern ocean ?
Mr. Pitman. Occasionally, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen any there ?
Mr. Pitman. I have, sir.
Senator Smith. How large a growler or berg ?
Mr. Pitman. One I saw about 18 months ago, and there were three,
as a matter of fact
Senator Smfth. Where did you see them ?
Mr. Pitman. Off the Falkland Islands. One was about 700 feet
long and BOO feet wide and fully 500 feet high .
^nator Smith. Were vou surprised to see it ?
Mr. PrTMAN. Not at all, sir.
Senator Smith. You expected to see it ?
Mr. Pitman. What do you mean? Oh, I thought you meant the
size of it. No; we did not expect to see ice.
Senator Smith. But, as a matter of fact, you found it?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir; in the daylight.
Senator Smith. How close were you to this berg you speak of?
Mr. Pitman. About a mile, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the color?
Mr. Pitman. When the sun was shining on it, it was a perfect white.
Senator Smith. What time of the day or night did you see it first ?
Mr. Pitman. In the morning, about 8 o^clock.
Senator Smith. Did you see it in the night at all ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir; when the sun was not shining on it, it
lo<Aed like a perfectly black berg, like a hug:e island, and that is where
I proved that the temperature of the water is absolutely no indication
of icebergs.
(< ».,».^*^^ yf
268 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. How about the temperature of the air ?
Mr. Pitman. No : it was not affected at all.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to say that it never is affected by the
prevalence of field ice or icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I would say that it would not be, after my experi-
ence with ice.
Senator Smith. Is it not a fact that the temperature of the air falls
as ice approaches ?
Mr. riTMAN. It may do so.
Senator Smith. What about this iceberg that you saw in southern
waters ?
Mr. Pitman. It did not affect the temperature in the slightest.
Senator Smith. Which side of the ship would be apt to realize that
fall of temperature first ?
Mr. Pitman. The weather side.
Senator Smith. The leeward ?
Mi. Pitman. No: the weather side; the windward side.
Senator Smith, l ask you whether the fall of the temperature of
the sea water is not sometimes a sign of the proximity of an iceberg ?
Mr. Pitman. I should never put any reliance in it myself, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of your own knowledge that water
was taken from the sea every two hours during the journey from South-
ampton to the place of the accident ?
Mr. Pitman. That is so, sir.
Senator Smith. What was it taken for ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, it is a custom in the ships.
Senator Smith. It is not a mere custom, is it; it must have some
meani^?
Mr. riTMAN. And it is for meteorological observation.
Senator Smith. Do you know of your own knowledge whether
any tests of the temperature of that water were made on board the
Titanic ?
Mr. Pitman. They are made every two hours, sir.
Senator Smith. I mean the temperature, tne water taken and tnen
the temperature tested 1
Mr. Pitman. Every two hours, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know that that was done ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; tne quartermaster does that every two hours.
Senator Smith. Did you personally see it done on this voyage ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir. I have seen the men going to do it.
Senator Smith. How did they do it; by lowering a bucket into
the water or lowering a bottle ?
Mr. Pitman. We usually have a canvas bucket which they lower
into the water.
Senator Smith. Did this boat have a canvas bucket on it ?
Mr. PrTMAN. It did not. We did not have time to: make one.
They were using a tin.
Senator SMrrn. What was it attached to ?
Mr. Pitman. A piece of rope long enough to reach the water.
Senator Smith. Did you see the rope %
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not see this temporary bucket put into
the water?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
*< »,*^. ^—^ >f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 269
Senator Smith. You stated a few moments ago that the second
officer, I believe, reported ice Saturday night?
Mr. Pitman. No; I said the fourth officer.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Boxhall.
Senator Smith. You said Mr. Boxhall reported ice Saturday
night, and that it was marked on the chart with a cross. Was this
mark on the chart on or near the ship^s course ?
Mr. Pitman. As far as I can recollect, it was to the northward of
the course; to the north of our track.
Senator Smith. How far ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not measure it, sir; and I have not the slightest
idea of the position of it.
Senator omith. Was the ship on its proper course ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If I am correctly advised, the course of ships now
sailing from port to port in the sea is recognized as standard so far as
the customary routes of travel are concerned. Am I right ?
Mr. Pitman. Certain firms.
Senator Smith. Did this appjly to the White Star Line ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir; a majority of the big passenger lines stick
to this particular track.
Senator Smith. It has been said that this particular ship was on
the northerly course. Now, then, will you tell the committee the
distinction between what is commonly regarded as the northerly
course and the southerly course ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, they are two different tracks. One is followed
from the 14th of Au^st to the 14th of January, and the other is
followed from the 14th of January to the 14th of August. The latter
is the southern track.
Senator Smith. One is followed by ships bound east and the other
by ships bound west \ ^ ^
" Mr. Pitman. That is right, sir. It would be much easier to explain
it on a chart.
Senator Smith. Like a double-track railroad ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. These two tracks, if I understand correctly, were
the recognized and customary tracks for ships to take at that time
of the year, the principal steamship lines?
Mr. riTMAN. Yes, sir; the principal lines that run to America.
Senator Smith. Just preceding tne sinking of the Titanic, was she
on the course commonly taken by ships sailing from Southamptoii to
New York, or was she on the course commonly taken by ships saUiog
from New York to Southampton ? .
Mr. Pitman. She was on tne course followed by ships coming from
the English Channel to New York.
Senator Smith. Do you make that statement because of the posi-
tion of the ship at the time of the collision ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not quite understand you.
Senator Smith. You know the latitude and longitude of this ship
when she struck the iceberg ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did that indicate to you that she was on the true
course ?
270 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. Exactly. She was right on the line.
Senator Smith. Then, when the course was put on the chart,
which you saw, indicating the prevalence of ice, did that indicate that
it was on the course your ship was taking ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no. It was way to the north.
Senator Smith. How far to the north ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not measure the distance, and so I can not say.
Senator Smith. Well, as a matter of fact, did you see any ice there
Sunday?
Mr. Pitman. I saw none, sir, up to Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Did vou see it Monday morning ?
Mr. Pitman. At the break of day; ves.
Senator Smith. Where were you wnen you saw it ?
Mr, Pitman. In a boat.
Senator Smith. In a lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. Where were you going — from the Titanic to the
Carpathiaf
Mr. PrTMAN. At that time; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much ice did you see then ?
Mr. Pitman. There were numerous bergs around me, maybe half
a dozen; but I was not sufficiently interested to count them.
Senator Smith. Were these bergs high above the water ?
Mr. Pitman. Some were.
Senator Smith. How high ?
Mr. Pitman. Some may have been 100 feet or 150 feet.
Senator Smith. That high above the water ?
Mr. Pitman* That high above the water; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How high was the TitaniCj about 70 feet from the
water's edge ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, the boat deck was.
Senator Smith. The upper deck was about 70 feet from the water's
edge ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. These icebergs that you saw at daybreak Monday
morning after the accident were, some of them, as high as 150 feet
hiffh?
Mr. Pitman. I should think so, sir.
Senator Smith. How many of the larger ones of that kind were
there ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not count them, sir. I was more interested in
the people in my boat.
Senator Smith. Well, one or two ?
Mr. Pitman. I really could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliere were you on Sunday evening immediately
preceding the collision ?
Mr. Pitman. In my bunk; in bed.
Senator Smith. Wnat were the hours of your watch that night ?
Mr. Pitman. I was on the bridge from 6 to 8 o'clock p. m.
Senator Smith. Whom did you see on the bridge, if anyone, that
night between 6 and 8 o'clock ?
Mr. Pitman. The commander and the second officer.
Senator Smith. The captain ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
it .-.^.^.^ 99
TITAKIO DISASTER. 271
Senator Smith. You call him the commander in that event ?
Mr. Pitman. Some do.
Senator Smith. I just wanted to be sure that you referred to the
captain. What time was he on the bridge; all the time that you
were on watch ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I could not say that, sir, because I was inside,
working out observations.
Senator SMrrn. Whenever you went to the bridge, from 6 to 8'
o'clock, do you recall having seen the captain ?
Mr. Pitman. I saw him once, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recall the hour ?
Mr. Pitman. Previous to 7 oVlock.
Senator Smith. You did not see him after 7 o'clock on the bridge ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir, no; because I did not go on the bridge
myself.
Senator Smith. Who was on the bridge ?
Mr. Pitman. The second officer, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lightoller i
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Lightoller.
Senator Smith. Did you talk with Mr. Lightoller between 6 and 8
o'clock that night?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you learn from him that the Califomian had
warned the Titanic that she was in the vicinity of icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir. We had no conversation whatever.
Senator Smith. Did vou hear am'thing about the wireless from
the Califomian on the direction of icebergs?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. No one mentioned that to you ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
SiMiator Smith. Did you have any conversation with the captain on
Sunday?
Mr. Pitman. None whatever, sir. I never had any.
Senator Smith. You never spoke to him ?
Mr. PiTBCAN. I never spoke to him; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did lie sav anything to you ?
Mr. Pitman. Not on Sunclav, lie did not.
Senator Smith. But you had spoken to him before, on the voyage ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes, sir; in reference to work.
Senator Smith. But on Sunday you did not ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. If I recollect what you have said, you saw the ice-
l)ergs, or evidence of ice, when you were on the watch from 6 to 8
o'eloek Sunday evening?
Mr. Pitman. I saw none whatever, sir, until I was in the boat, and
that was about half past 3 Monday morning. That was the first ice
I <aw.
Senator Smith. Did you look for it ?
Mr. Pitman. We were keeping a special lookout for ice.
Senator Smith. Who was ?
Mr. Pitman. The officer of the watch from 10 o'clock on.
Senator Smith. Who was the officer of the watch from 1 0 o'clock on ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Murdock.
40475— pt 4—12 2
272 '' t^TANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. How do you know he was keeping a special
lookout ?
Mr. Pitman. Because he was warned.
Senator Smith. Who warned him ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, I know that Mr. Ligh toller passed the word
along to him.
Senator Smith. How do you know that ? I merely want to get at
the fact. I am not pressing you for unnecessary detail.
Mr. Pitman. Because I nad heard some one mention it.
Senator Smith. Mention it before the collision or since ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, since.
Senator Smith. Exactly. What did you do after you left the
watch at 8 o'clock on Sunday evening?
Mr. Pitman. I went to bed, sir.
Senator Smith. Immediately ?
Mr. Pitman. Within a very few minutes.
Senator Smith. What time did you dine that evening ?
Mr. Pitman. At 6 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Just before going on watch ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. Well, no; just after I went on the bridge and
left the bridge, then I had my dinner.
Senator Smith. You had your dinner where ?
Mr. Pitman. On the boat deck.
Senator Smith. Is there a dining room up there, or anything of that
kind?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. For the oflScers ?
Mr. Pitman. Our own mess.
Senator Smith. After 8 o'clock you retired ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly, sir.
Senator Smith. Between 6 and 8 o'clock did you take any
observations ?
Mr. Pitman. Of what ?
Senator Smith. Astronomical observations ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; we took stellar observations and also observa-
tions for compass deviation.
Senator Smith. You took them yourself ?
Mr. Pitman. I took them myself. No, sir; I did not take the
stellar observations myself. I took the time for them, and Mr. Ldgh-
toller himself took the observations of the body.
Senator Smith. How many times during that watch, do you
recollect?
Mr. Pitman. How many times did we take observations ?
Senator Smith. During that watch, yes; how many observations
were taken?
Mr. Pitman. We just took a set of them at sunset, or just as it
was getting dusk, wnen the stars were visible. It was about 6 or 8
o'clock that we took them.
Senator Smith. Do you know how these observations located the
ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Do I know what ?
Senator Smith. Do you know how these observations located the
ship?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; right on the track.
ti „^ ^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. '273
Senator Smith. And that is where you got your necessary .facts to
determine the location of the ship ?
Mr. Pftman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. Am I right ?
Mr. Pftman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you give the location of the ship at 8 o'clock
that night ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or at any time between 6 and 8 o'clock?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; I have forgotten.
Senator Smith. Can you tell what speed the ship was making at
the time of these observations ?
Mr. Pitman. About 21^.
Senator Smith. Twenty-one and a half what ?
Mr. Pitman. Knots.
Senator Smith. Twenty-one and one-half knots per hour ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In miles what would that be ?
Mr. Pitman. There are 6,080 feet in a nautical mile and there are
5,280 in the geographical mile.
Senator Smith. At just what time between 6 and 8 o'clock did
you take these observations ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. I say, at just what time. You did not take them
while vou were at your dinner ?
Mr.i^iTMAN. Oh, no, sir; about half past 7. Between half past 7
and 20 minutes to 8.
Senator Smith. You and Mr. Ligh toller ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; we took a set of sights.
Senator Smith. The second officer took a set of
Mr. Pitman (interrupting). SteUar observations.
Senator Smith. And at that time the speed of the ship was about
21^ knots per hour?
Mr. Pftman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your regard that as pretty good speed ?
Mr. Pitman. No; nothing to what we expected her to do.
Senator Smith. Did you expect her to do pretty well. ?
Mir. Pitman. We thought it quite possible that she could reach 24.
Senator Smith. Were you trying to reach 24 knots ?
Mr. Pitman. No; we had to study the coal. We had not the coal
to do it.
Senator Smith. You had not the coal ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many boilers were working at
that time ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As I understood you, you made no special observa-
ti<ms for iceberra?
Mr. Pitman. 1 did not, sir; no, sir.
Senator Smith. These were stellar observations that you have
referred to ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; to determine the position of the ship.
Senator Smith.. And did you personally direct your attention to
the question of icebergs ?
276 ** TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you arouse yourself?
Mr. Pitman. I did, after a little thinking, wondering where we
were anchoring.
Senator Smith. You lay in bed a while after the impact?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. H!ow long ?
Mr. Pitman. Maybe three or four minutes.
Senator Smith. Then did you get up and dress ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I got up and walked on deck without dressing.
Senator Smith. How far on deck ?
Mr. Pitman. Just went outside of our quarters, had a look around ,
and could not see anyone.
Senator Smith. Where were your quarters; on what deck?
Mr. Pitman. On the boat deck, close to the bridge.
Senator Smith. Close to the bridge ?
Mr. Pitman. Close to the bridge.
Senator Smith. Forward ?
Mr. Pitman. Forward, yes.
Senator Smith. How far did you walk?
Mr. Pitman. Just outside the door, I should say 3 or 4 paces across
the deck.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you got out there; look
around ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. I can describe to you what I did.
Senator Smith. Do so, please.
Mr. Pitman. I had a look around, and I could not see anything,
and could not hear any noise, so I went back to the room and sat
down and lit my pipe. I thought that nothing had reallj happened,
that perhaps it nught have been a dream, or something like tnat. A
few minutes afterwards I thought I had better start dressing, as it
was near my watch, so I started dressing, and when I was partly
dressed Mr. Boxhall came in and said the mail room — ^there was
water in the mail room. I said, '*What happened?" He said,
**We struck an iceberg.'' So I put a coat on and went on deck, and
saw the men uncovering the boats and clearing them away. I walked
along to the after end of the boat deck, and met Mr. Moody, the
sixth officer. I asked him if he had seen the iceberg. He said no ;
but he said, '* There is some ice on the forward well deck." So, to
satisfy my curiosity, I went down there myself.
Senator Smith. How far down ?
Mr. PmfAN. On the well deck. So I saw a little ice there. I went
further, to the forecastle head, to see if there was any damage there.
I could not see any at all. On my return, before emerging from under
the forecastle heaa, I saw a crowd of firemen coming out with their bags,
bags of clothing. I said, *' What is the matter?" They said, "Trie
water is coming in our place." I said, ^'That is funny." I looked
down No. 1 hatch, then, and saw the water flowing over the hatch.
I then immediately went to the boat deck, and assisted in getting
boatB uncovered and ready for swinging out. I stood by No. 5 boat.
They would not allow the sailors to get anything, as they thought we
should get it again in the morning. In the act of cleanng away this
boat a man said to me, that was (fressed in a dressing gown, with slip-
pers on, he said to me very quietly, *^ There is no time to waste." I
ft ....... «».^ ff
TITANIC " DISASTER. 277
thought he did not know anything about it at all. So we carried on
our work in the usual way.
Senator Smith. Do you know who that was ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not then.
Senator Smith. Do you now 1
Mr. Pitman. I do now.
Senator Smtth. Who was it ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Ismay . I did not know who it was then ; I had
never seen the man in my life before. So I continued on getting this
boat uncovered and swinging out. It struck me at the time the easy
way the boat went out, the ^eat improvement the modem davits
were on the old-fashioned davits. I had about five or six men there,
and the boat was out in about two minutes.
Senator Smith. You are referring now to No. 5 boat ?
Mr. PrrBfAN. No. 5 boat.
Senator Smith. The boat at your station ?
Mr. Pitman. At my station; yes. The boat went out in two or
three minutes. I thought what a jolly fine idea they were, because
with the old-fashioned davits it would require about a dozen men to
lift her, a dozen men at each end. I got her overboard all right, and
lowered level with the rail.
Senator Smfih. You lowered her level with the rail of the boat
deck?
Mr. Pitman. Of the boat deck; yes. Then this man in the dressing
§own said we had better get her loaded with women and children,
o I said, *'I await the commander's orders,'' to which he replied,
*^ Very well," or something like that. It then dawned on me that it
might be Mr. Ismay, jud^g by the description I had had given me.
So I went alon^ to the bridge and saw Capt. Smith, and I told him
that I thought it was Mr. Ismay that wished me to get the boat away
with women and children in it. So he said, ^'Gro ahead; carry on."
I came along and brought in my boat. I stood on it and said, *'Come
along, ladies." There was a big crowd. Mr. Ismay helped to get
them along; assisted in every way. We got the boat nearly full, and
I shouted out for any more ladies.
Senator Smith. You shouted ?
Mr. PriMAN. I shouted. None were to be seen. So I allowed a few
men to get into it. llien I jumped on the ship again. So Murdock
said, *' lou go in charge of tnis boat."
Senator Smith. Murdock said that to you ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes ; he said, ** You go away in this boat, old man, and
hang around the after gangway." I did not like the idea of going
away at all, because I thought I was better oS on the ship.
Senator Smith. That is, these passengers thought so or you thought
so?
Mr. Pitman. I thought so.
Senator Smtth. You thought they were better off on the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. I thought I was.
Senator Smtth. That you were better off on the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Sure.
Senator Smtth. Were the passengers reluctant to get into this boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; I filled my boat fairly easily.
Senator Smith. How many ? Just go right ahead.
Afr. Pttman. About 40.
278 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. Were there about 40 ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men and how many women ? Just tell
it in your own way.
Mr. Pitman. I should say about half a dozen men there; there
would not have been so many men there had there been any women
around, but there were none. So Murdock told me. He said, ^' You
go ahead in this boat, and hand around the after gangway.'' He
shook hands with me and said, ^'Good-by; good luck;'' and I said^
"Lower away."
Senator Smith. Murdock did ?
Mr. Pitman. Murdock shook hands good-by, and said, ^ 'Good luck
to you."
Senator Smith. Did you ever see him after that ?
Mr. Pitman. Never. We then cast the boat off and pulled awav
some safe distance from the ship. It was not for an hour that I real-
ized she would go — an hour after we got into the water. I quite
thought we would have to return to the ship again, perhaps at day-
light. My idea was that if any wind sprang up we should drift away
from the ship and have a job to get back a^am.
Senator Smith. This boat was the first lifeboat lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no, it was the second one ; the second one on the
starboard side.
Senator Smith. And had vou seen the first one lowered ?
Mr. PrrMAN. Yes; it was the next boat to me.
Senator Smith. You saw that lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. I saw that lowered, yes.
Senator Smith. Was it filled from the boat deck ?
Afr. Pitman. Every boat, as far as I know, was filled from the boat
deck.
Senator Smith. Is that customary ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, to put a certain amount in, yes.
Senator Smith. Does not that give the passengers on the boat deck
a decided advantage in the escape from danger ?
Mr. Pitman. I had some saloon passengers, of the second class.
Senator Smith. What is that ?
Mr. PrrMAN. I do not think it does.
Senator Smith. I simply wanted your judgment. Who were the
men in No. 5 lifeboat, beside yoursefi?
Mr. Pitman. What do you mean; of the crew?
Senator SMrrn. Yes; men, whoever they were; crew or passengers.
Mr. Pitman. Five of the crew, and there may have been five or six
passengers — ^male passengers.
Senator Smith. And the balance were
Mr. Pitman. Women and children.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of those people ?
Mr. Pitman. I know them by name, now; I did not know them
previously.
Senator SMrrn. Do you know the names of the members of the
crew who were in this boat ?
Mr. Pitman. I have them somewhere, but I can not remember
them just now.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the second oflGicer's testimony regard-
ing the manning of the lifeboats on the port side ?
ii -„«..^ fy
TITANIC DISASTEB. 279
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; I did not hear any of his testimony.
Senator Smith. Did you have any direction over the number of
people who were put into that lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, not at the end, I did not, because Mr. Murdock
was there and he was the senior officer. It was for him to decide.
Senator Smith. Mr. LightoUer, who had charge of the loading of
the boats on the port side, has said that he put only two of the crew
into the lifeboats he loaded. How did it happen that you had so
many of the crew ?
Mr. Pitman. I thought I had only four at the time.
Senator Smith. You thought you had four ?
Mr. Pitman. Four.
Senator Smith. But you discovered you had more than that ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not discover I had five until some time on the
Carpaihiaj during the trip on the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Were there five with yourself?
Mr. Pitman. No; six.
Senator Smith. Six with yourself. Then, as a matter of fact, there
were six of the crew, officers and crew, in No. 5 boat ?
Mr. Pitman. In No. 5 boat, yes.
Senator Smith. Can you give us the names of the six ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not just now, sir. I can get them for you.
Senator Smith. Did they all survive until they reached the
Ckirpaihiaf
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Let him give them as near as he can; let him
describe them.
Mr. Pitman. I can not give the names.
_ Senator Fletcher. Officers or common sailors or what ? Can you
give their names ?
Mr. Pitman. There were one sailor, two firemen, two stewards, and
myself. No, I have not got their names.
Senator Smith. Besides those you had about 30 passengers ?
Mr. Pitman. I had about 40 passengers.
Senator Smith. Besides the crew ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. This was a large lifeboat, was it ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that lifeboat equipped with food ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; it had biscuits and water in it.
Senator Smith. Did you have occasion to use either ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. How do you know they were in ; did you see them ?
Mr. Pitman. They were put there in Southampton; and we also
went through all the boats on the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Did you find that to be the case ?
Mr. Pitman. That they were full. The boats had bread and
^veater.
Senator Smith. Did you have anv lights on No. 5 lifeboat?
Mr. Pitman. I did not have a light in my boat; no.
Senator Smith. Do you know of anv boats that did have lights on
them?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; there were several of them that had.
Senator Smith. But they did not all have lights ?
280 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. Do the regulations of the British Board of Trade
prescribe lights ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say you got into this boat and it was lowered
and you were told to go ?
Mr. Pitman. To stand by the after gangway.
Senator Smith. Did you do it?
Mr. Pitman. I did it as near as possible. I kept within a safe dis-
tance of the ship, if anything^ did happen.
Senator Smith. You kept lar enougn away so that if anything hap-
pened you would not be involved in it ? Is that the idea ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. What did you expect to happen ?
Mr. Pitman. I thought she still had about three of the compart-
ments and still would remain afloat.
Senator Smith. And if she did not float and went down, were you
expecting a suction that would draw the lifeboats down ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, yes ; I thought we might get into a bit of a wash.
Senator Smith. And that you were seeking to avoid ?
Mr. Pitman. Seeking to avoid; yes.
Senator Smith. Did an^ persons, men, women, or children, attempt
to get into your lifeboat m the water ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. Did any attempt to get out of it ?
Mr. Pitman. None whatever, sir; and I had no trouble whatever
with my boat. The women all behaved admirably.
Senator Smith. Did any of the women pull on the oars, or handle
the tiller ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; although they wanted to.
Senator Smith. Row ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; to keep themselves warm?
Senator Smith. It was very cold that morning?
Mr. Pitman. It was chilly; yes.
Senator Smith. Zero weather ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no.
Senator Smith. How cold was it ?
Mr. Pitman. It mav have been 40 — 35 to 40.
Senator Smith. Did. vou ever return to the side of the Titanic f
Mr. Pitman. No; we did not.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Titanic go down ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Describe, if vou can, how she sank?
Mr. Pitman. Judging by what I could see from a distance, she
Gradually disappeared until the forecastle head was submerged to the
ridge. Then she turned right on end and went down perpendicularly.
Senator Smith. At about what angle ?
Mr. Pitman. She went straight.
Senator Smith. Right straimt down ?
Mr. Pitman. Absolutely. That was the last I saw of her.
Senator Smith. Did she seem to be broken in two.
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no.
Senator Smith. Or was she entirely intact ? Did you hear any
explosions ?
<^ -,*».. ^««.^ yf
TITANIC DISASTER. 281
ilr. Pitman. Yes; four reports.
Senator Smith. What kind of reports ?
Mr. Pitman. They sounded like the reports of a big gun in the
distance.
Senator Smith. What did you assume they were ?
Mr. Pitman. I assumed it was bulkheads goin^, myself.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything like boiler explosions ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; I heard a lot of people say that; but I have my
doubts about that. I do not see why the boilers should burst.
because there was no steam there. They should have been stopped
about two hours and a half. The fires had not been fed, so there was
very little steam there.
Senator Smith. Are we to understand that you do not believe that
boilers exploded ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not believe it.
Senator Smith. And from the distance you were from the ship,
you would have known it if that had occurred ?
Mr. Pftman. I think so.
Senator Smith. As the ship went down, what did you observe on
the afterdeck or decks ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not see that, sir.
Senator Smith. You could not see the people ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of the people aboard this sliip
when you went down and after you got to the water, and when you
went around close to the stern of the ship, were they fitted with life
belts?
Mr. Pitman. Everyone I saw before I left the ship had a life belt on.
Senator Smith. Did you see anyone without a life belt?
Mr. Pitman. There may have been a stray one of the crew without
one.
Senator Smith. But that was a rare thing?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. I did not have one myself; I did uot want it.
Senator Smith. How long before going down were there explosions
or noises ?
Mr. Pitman. Not until she was submerged.
Senator Smith. Not until slie was entirely submerged ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. The after part of the ship as well as the forward
part ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; the whole of her.
Senator Smith. She had gone under water before these explosions
were heard ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you are quite sure that the explosions you
heard came from the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, ves; perfectly sure.
Senator Smith. When did you last see the captain ?
Mr. Pitman, When I went to the bridge and asked him if I shoukl
fill No. 5 boat with women and get her away.
Senator Smith. And what did he tell you ?
Mr. Pitman. ''Carry on," or words to that effect.
Senator Smith. Dia you ever see him again ?
Mr. Pitman; No, sir.
(t -^^.^**^ 9f
282 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Was he visible when the boat went down ?
Mr. Pitman. I was not there to the last, sir.
Senator Smith. You were unable to see from your point of view ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you shook hands with Murdock and bade
him good bye, did you ever expect to see him again ?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly; I did.
Senator Smith. Do you think, from his manner, he ever expected
to see you again ?
Mr. Pitman. Apparently not. I expected to get back to the ship
again, perhaps two or three hours afterwards.
Senator Smith. But he, from his manner, did not expect that ?
Mr. Pitman. Apparently not.
Senator Smith. Did you take leave of any other officers in a sim-
ilar way ?
Mr. Pitman. No. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Wlien you were passing from the side of the
Titanic to the Carpathiay aid you see any people in the water — men,
women, or children?
Mr. Pitman. None, sir.
Senator Smith. When you went around the after part of the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. After? 1 did not go aroimd the stem.
Senator Smith. You did not go back there ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. Wliat did Murdock tell you to go back there for ?
Do vou know ?
Mr. Pitman. Just to be handy, I suppose.
Senator Smith. To be handy to pick up ?
Mr. Pitman. To pick up again; to pick the boat up again.
Senator Smith. And you saw no people in the water ?
Mr. Pitman. None, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any cries of distress ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. What were they, cries for help ?
Mr. Pitman. Crying, shouting, moaning.
Senator Smith. From the ship, or from the water ?
Mr. Pitman. From the water, after the ship disappeared; no
noises before.
Senator Smith. There were no noises from the ship's crew, or
officers, or passengers, just preceding the sinking?
Mr. Pitman. None.
Senator Smith. Immediately following the sinking of the ship
3''ou heard these cries of distress ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. But, as I understand you, you were not in close
proximity to those who were uttering the cries ?
Mr. Pitman. I may have been three of four hundred yards away;
four or five hundred jards away.
Senator Smith. Did you attempt to get near them ?
Mr. Pitman. As soon as she disappeared I said, ''Now, men, we
will pull toward the wreck.'' Everyone in my boat said it was a mad
idea, because we had far better save what few we had in my boat
than go back to the scene of the wreck and be swamped by the crowds
that were there.
(< ^*^. * ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 283
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, do you not know your boat
would have accommodated 20 or 25 more people?
Mr. Pitman. My boat would have accommoaated a few more, yes;
certainly.
Senator Smith. According to the testimony of your fellow offi-
cers
Mr. Pitman. My boat would have held more.
Senator Smith (continuing). Your boat would have held about
60 or 65 people.
Mr. Pitman. About 60.
Senator Smith. Tell us about your fellow passengers on that life-
boat. You say thejr discouraged you from returning or going in the
direction of these cries ?
^£r. Pitman. They did. I told my men to get their oars out, and
pull toward the wreck — the scene of the wreck.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. I said, *^We may be able to pick up a few more."
Senator Smith. Who demurred to that ?
ilr. Pitman. The whole crowd in my boat. A great number of
them did.
Senator Smith. Women ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not discriminate whether women or men.
Thev said it was rather a mad idea.
Senator Smith. I ask you if any woman in your boat appealed to
you to return to the direction from which the cries came ?
Mr. Pitman. No one.
Senator Smith. You say that no woman passenger in your boat
urged you to return ?
ilr. Pitman. None.
Mr. BuRLiNGHAM. It would have capsized the boat, Senator.
Senator Smith. Pardon me, I am not drawing any unfair conclusion
from this. One of the officers told us that a woman in his boat urged
him to return to the side of the ship. I want to be very sure that this
officer heard no woman asking the same tiling. [To the mtness.]
Who demurred, now, that you can specifically recall ?
Mr. Pftman. I could not name any one in particular.
Senator Smith. The men with the oars ?
Mr. Pitman. No. They did not; no. They started to obey my
orders.
Senator Smith. You were in command. They ought to have
obeyed your orders ?
Mr. Pitman. So they did.
Senator Smith. They did not, if you told them to pull toward the
ship.
5Ir. Pitman. They commenced pulling toward the ship, and the
passengers in my boat said it was a mad idea on my part to pull back
to the ship, because if I did, we should be swamped with tne crowd
that was in the water, and it would add another 40 to the list of
drowned, and I decided I would not pull back.
Senator Smith. Officer, you really turned this No. 5 boat around
to go in the direction from which these cries came?
ilr. Pitman. I did.
Senator Smith. And were dissuaded from your purpose by your
crew
ilr. Pitman. No, not crew; passengers.
ti ...... «^^ ff
284 xixuno disastsb.
Senator Smith. One moment; by your crew and by the passengers
in your boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly.
Senator Smith. Then did you turn the boat toward the sea again i
Mr. Pitman. No; just simply took our oars in and lay quiet.
Senator Smith. You mean you drifted ?
Mr. Pitman. We may have gone a little bit.
Senator Smith. Drifted on your oars ?
Mr. Pitman. We may have drifted along. We just simply lay
there doing nothing.
Senator Smith. How many of these cries were there? Was it a
chorus, or was it
Mr. Pitman. I would rather you did not speak about that.
Senator Smith. I would Uke to know how you were impressed by it.
Mr. Pitman. Well, I can not very well describe it. I would rather
you would not speak of it.
Senator Smith. I realize that it is not a pleasant theme, and yet I
would like to know whether these cries were general and in chorus,
or desultor}^ and occasional ?
Mr. Pitman. There was a continual moan for about an hour.
Senator Smith. And you lay in the vicinity of that scene for about
an hour ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes; we were in the vicinity of the wreck the
whole time.
Senator Smith. And drifted or lay on your oars during that time ?
Mr. Pitman. We drifted toward dayUght, as a little breeze sprang up .
Senator Smith. Did this anguish or these cries of distress die away ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; they died away gradually.
Senator Smith. Did they continue during most of the hour I
Mr. Pitman. Oh, jes; I think so. It may have been a shorter
time. Of course I did not watch every five minutes
Senator Smith. I imderstand that, and I am not trying to ask
about a question of five minutes. Is that all you care to say ?
Mr. Pitman. I would rather that you would have left that out
altogether.
Senator Smith. I know you would; but I must know what efforts
you made to save the Uves of passengers and crew under your charge.
If that is all the effort you made, say so
Mr. Pitman. That is all, sir.
Senator Smith (continuing). And I will stop that branch of my
examination.
Mr. Pitman. That is all, sir; that is all the effort I made.
Senator Smith. You spoke of the firemen coming toward the upper
deck with their kits or a few things in their hands, saying that the
mail room was filling with water.
Mr. Pitman. No; no. The fourth officer told me that the mail
room was filling with water. That was previous to seeing the firemen
coming up
Senator Smith. These firemen came from the boiler room ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; from their quarters.
Senator Smith. Then they were not on duty ?
Mr. Pitman. No; those men were not.
Senator Smith. These were men that were off duty at that time 'i
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
ft »«... ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 285
Senator Smith. Did they come up toward the boat deck ?
Mr. Pitman. No: they came up from under the forecastle head.
Senator Smith. How many were there ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not say exactly; they were coming up all
the time, each man bringing his bundle up.
Senator Smith. You saia you heard noises Uke explosions. I
would like to know whether you heard any reports that indicated any
collapse of the bulkheads ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; four reports.
Senator Smith. I think you said the reports indicated that?
Mr. Pitman. There were four reports that I heard that appertained
to the bulkheads carrying away.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether a failure of the water-tight
doors to work had anything to do with the boat filling so promptly ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; the water-tight doors worked all nght.
Senator Smith. How do you know that ?
Mr. Pitman. Because I have seen them working. I saw them
working at Belfast.
Senator Smith. Before you sailed ?
Mr. Pitman. Before we sailed.
Senator Smith. On the trial t^t ?
Mr. Pitman. Before we went on the trial.
Senator Smith. I want my associates to know where this lever is,
if a lever is used, or where the electric power is that locks these water-
tight compartments? Where is that operated from; what deck;
what part of the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. The water-tight doors are operated from the bridge
by a lever close to the wheel.
Senator Smith. By whom ?
Mr. Pitman. By a lever close to the wheel.
Senator Smith. I understand, but by whom ?
Mr. Pitman. Operated by the officer of the watch.
Senator Smtth. The officer of the watch ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. So if you were officer of the watch when this colli-
sion came, it would be your duty to close those doors ?
Mr. Pitman. Immediately.
Senator Smith. I thought I understood you to say that Mr. Mur-
dock closed those doors, or was that Mr. Boxhall ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Boxhall said that, because he saw it.
Senator Smith. You do not know about that yourself ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smtth. You say you saw those doors operated at Belfast ?
Mr. Pitman. At Belfast.
Senator Smith. Did you see them operated after that ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many were there of those doors ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. About how many ?
Mr. Pitman. Of course, they are not all operated by electricity.
It is only those in the bottom of the ship that are operated from the
bridge.
Senator Smith. Those in the bottom of the ship are operated from
the bridge ?
286 TITANIC DI8ASTEB.
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How are the others opened or closed ?
Mr. Pitman. By hand.
Senator Smith. With a lock and key, and a wrench ?
Mr. Pitman. By a handle and a spindle.
Senator Smith. Are they locked with a key ?
Mr. Pitman. No one could unlock them without a key or spindle —
a brass key.
Senator Smith. I understand; but I would like to know whether
they are locked with the key, or whether they required a wTench to
turn them or unlock them ?
Mr. Pitman. They require a big wrench — a handle.
Senator Smith. Did you see any wrench or key on those water-
tight compartment doors ?
Mr. Pitman. They are all kept in a rack close alongside.
Senator Smith. Did you see them ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Pitman. In the passenger accommodations, sir.
Senator Smith. At Belfast ?
Mr. Pitman. At Belfast. They were in the passenger accommo-
dations at sea.
Senator Smith. You were quite satisfied they were there ?
Mr. Pitman. Quite, sir. It was our business to see that all the
gear was there.
Senator Smith. But you did not see that your lights were on your
lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. But we had the lights.
Senator Smith. They were not on the boats, or all of them were
not, as I understood you. But these water-tight compartment keys
and wrenches were there in their proper places 1
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. Although you never saw them after leaving Bel-
fast, you knew that they were there then ?
Mr. Pitman. Because they do not come in our department; they
are in the passenger department.
Senator Smith. All right; I just wanted to know^ if you knew
about it of your own knowledge. Is there any way for an oflScer on
watch to tell whether the doors actually close when he works the
lever from the bridge ?
Mr. Pitman. No ; I do not think there is.
Senator Smith. In order to have a perfect test, it would be neces-
sary to have some one below, would it not ?
Sir. Pitman. I can not say; I am not very well acquainted with
those water-tight doors. It is the first time that I have been with
them
Senator Smith. Did you ever operate a lever on a door of a water-
tight compartment.
Mr. Pitman. From the bridge ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; never.
Senator Smith. But it stands to reason, and your judgment as a
navigator is, that operating the lever from the bridge you can not
tell with exactness whether the doors liave closed below or not?
(( ^^^. ^^-^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 287
Mr. Pitman. No. Anyhow, the water-tight doors were of very
little assistance this time.
Senator Smith. Wlxat do you mean by that ?
Mr. Pitman. WeU, because the ice had ripped the side of the ship
out.
Senator Smith. The impact was upon which side
Mr. Pitman. The starboard side.
Senator Smith. The starboard side; and about how far from the
bow?
Mr. Pitman. I should say haJfwav along the ship that her bottom
was torn out, or at least her side, along the water.
Senator Smith. From the point where this iceberg struck the ship,
or the ship struck the iceberg, it ripped the side out ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, I would say the bilge keel.
Senator Smith. For how great a distance ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, halfway along the ship.
Senator Smith. And that rendered the water-tight compartments
useless ?
Mr. Pitman. In that part of the ship, yes.
Senator Smith. What is your judgment as to whether, if this
impact had occurred bows on
Mr. Pitman. She would have been afloat now.
Senator Smith (continuing). The boat would have survived?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly.
Senator Smith. Then it was an error to strike it sideways, if it
could have been avoided ?
ilr. Pitman. It was quite natural to try and get out of the way.
Senator Smith. Of course I understand that. I am not criticizing
that. I am just saying that a ship like that is built for the purpose
of meeting the hardest impact at the bow ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not Know. If two or three steamers had run
into her she would not have sunk.
Senator Smith. If they had run into her bows on ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; bows on.
Senator Smith. But suppose a steamer had hit her at the point of
contact where this iceberg nit her, would it have had the same eflFect ?
Mr. Pitman. No; it would have required about six steamers to
have had the same effect as that iceberg had.
Senator Smith. Six steamers of the size of the Titanic?
Mr. Pitman. It is immaterial about the size.
Senator Smith. Well, tonnage?
Mr. Pitman. Irrespective of tonnage.
Senator Smith. Do you know what part of the boat flooded first 1
Mr. Pitman. Apparently the mail room.
Senator Smith. Did you have any special report from No. 2 hold,
to your knowledge ?
Mr. Pitman. >i0t to mj knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. Was this mail room on the starboard side 1
Mr, Pitman. No; it occupied a part of the ship from one side to the
other, as I recall.
Senator Smith. About the center?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. From one side to the other, clear across?
40475— pt 4—12 3
288 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. As far as I can recollect. I do not remember. I was
only down there once myself.
Senator Smith. You spoke of the services of Mr. Ismay with the
women and children^ assisting in loadings etc.
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. And did you leave Mr. Ismay on the deck when
you were lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Ismay was on the deck when I was lowered, yes.
The next I saw of him was coming onto the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. You did not see him after you were lowered to the
water?
Mr. Pitman. Not until morning.
Senator Smith. And you say he was dressed, or partially dressed;
that he had a dressing gown on ?
Mr. Pitman. It struck me that he had a dressing gown and pajamas
on.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain out there by boat No. 5 ?
Mr. Pitman. Just the length of time it took me to get the boat
out, and
Senator Smith. Yours was the second boat out ?
Mr. Pitman. On the starboard side.
Senator SMrra. And the first boat was on the port side ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no.
Senator SMrrn. Well ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not know how many boats had gone from the
port side. Mine was the first on the starboard side. No. 7 went first,
and then No. 5.
Senator Smith. Who loaded the first boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Murdock, I think.
Senator Smith. Did you assist?
Mr. Pitman. I did not.
Senator Smith. Did any other officer assist ?
Mr, Pitman. No; not tnat I am aware of; I can not say.
Senator Smith. Were you standing by when that boat was loaded ?
Mr. Pitman. No. 5; yes.
Senator Smith. No; the first boat.
Mr. Pitman. No. 7 ?
Senator Smith. The first one?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; I was clearing No. 5 at the same time that
No. 7 was coming off.
Senator Smith. You were clearing No. 5 and some one else was
clearing No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. Right next to yours?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir; right next.
Senator Smith. Did you see that No. 7 boat manned ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I had nothing whatever to do with that No. 7
boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know who went out in No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do vou know whether Mr. Boxhall went out in it ?
Mr. Pitman. He did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Or Mr. LightoUer?
(( ^^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 289
Mr. Pitman. There was no officer in that boat, because I had it
made fast to mine for some time after we got away from the ship.
Senator Smith. Was it lowered at the same time yours was lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. Two or three minutes previously.
Senator Smith. Then, can you say whether Mr. Ismay was in
boat No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. I know he was not, for he came oflf from a collapsible
boat.
Senator Smith. And this boat, No. 7, was a full-sized lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And yours was No. 5. Do you know whether
there were more men than women in boat No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not say.
Senator Smith. But there was no officer in No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No officer in No. 7.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many sailors there were in No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou ever see No. 7 after it struck the water?
IkLr. Pitman. Yes; Ihaditmadefasttome. As there was no officer
in the boat I said, '^Look here, make fast to me and we will hang on
until daylight, as it is smooth water, and at daylight we will set our
sails, and we will be more likely to be picked up if we are together
than if one of us is over there and one over here. "
Senator Smith. After making fast, you attached the bow of No. 7
to the stem of No. 5 by a rope ?
Mr. Pitman. By a rope — a painter.
Senator Smith. And now close did you bring No. 7 up to No. 5?
Mr. Pitman. We were alongside, close alongside of each other for
some time; side by side for some time.
Senator Smith. In that situation did you notice how many of the
crew of the Titanic were in that boat ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not say, sir; it was too dark.
Senator Smith. Did you notice whether that lifeboat was filled with
people ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not think there were quite so many ill there as in
my boat. I am not sure.
Senator Smith. Would you be willing to say that there were more
than 25 in there ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. KCow many more ?
Mr. Pitman. I would say there were over 30, between 30 and 40, in
there.
Senator Smith. Between 30 and 40, in your judgment ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone on your lifeboat or on the other lifeboat
count those people ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, we did count them, but I forget how many were
really in that boat. I transferred a woman and child and two men
from my boat into that boat.
Senator Smith. After you had attached them, you balanced up the
load?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So that there was really room in No. 7 for more
people than were taken when it was lowered to the water ?
290 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr Pitman. Yes, they could have taken a few more.
Senator Smith. How many more, with safety ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, that would depend a great deal on the condition
of the water.
Senator Smith. I know, but we have concluded that the water was
smooth and the weather all right. Under those circumstances, witli
pleasant weather all the way, how many would that lifeboat hold
safely ?
Mr. Pitman. They are all supposed to contain sixty people.
Senator Smith. But none of them did contain 60 ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not say that, sir.
Senator Smith. These two boats. No. 7 and No. 5, did not contain
60 people each ?
Mr. riTMAN. No. They could have taken more, but there were no
women around at the time those boats were lowered.
Senator Smith. And no men?
Mr. Pitman. There may have been a few men aroimd there.
Senator Smith. Were there?
Mr. Pitman. There were some; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Why were they not taken ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not say why they were not taken in No. 7, but
I thought I had sufficient in my boat for safety in lowering.
Senator Smith. Is there any danger in lowering a lifeboat with the
davits and other equipment operating ? Is there such danger in low-
ering a lifeboat that you can not fill it to its capacity ?
Mr. Pitman. I would not like to fill a lifeboat with 60 people and
lower it suspended at both ends.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see 60 people in a Ufeboat?
Mr. Pitman. No; I can not say that I have, although I think some
of them had close on to 60 when they came alongside the Carvathia.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. Bride, the wireless telegrapher
of the Titanic, testify?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. LightoUer testify ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lightoller said that on the collapsible lifeboat,
turned over bottom side up, there were 35 people. If a collapsible
lifeboat, overturned, can accommodate 35 people sitting unprotected,
what would be your judgment as to the capacity of a lifeooat such
as No. 5 or No. 7, floating in its customary way; would 60 people
be the limit?
Mr. Pitman. I should think so, sir. There is no room to move
with 60 in it.
Senator Smith. No room to move ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir. She would support a lot more if she was
capsized, and people in the water just holding onto her, of course.
Senator Smith. I want to call attention again to what I suppose
you may dislike me to return to, but I want to know, because I want
the record to disclose the fact. At what time after vou left the
Titanic was No. 7 Ufeboat attached to No. 5 ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been from 1 to half past 2.
Senator Smith. How much of the hour that you lay on your oars
were these two boats together ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been an hour and it may have been two.
ti .». .« f.f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 291
Senator Smith. That you were together?
;Mr. PiTJiAN. That we were together; yes.
Senator Smith. That is, before you were picked up by the Car-
pathiat
ilr. Pitman. Oh, yes. We had cast off before the Carpaihia came
in sight.
Senator Smith. You had separated from one another ?
!Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. But you were fastened together how long ?
ilr. Pitman. Maybe two hours. I am not quite certain about that.
Senator Smith. Two hours ? During those two hours you took
some people out of your boat and put them into the other boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. That is correct.
Senator Smith. Three people, as I understood you ; men or women ?
Mr. Pitman. Both, and a child.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
Mr. Pitman. I think two men, a lady, and a child.
Senator Smith. Four people ?
Mr. Pitman. I think so.
Senator Smith. And you took them out and put them into this No.
7 boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. When you were doing that, were you aware of the
fact that there were cries of distress, and many people were in the
water near by ?
Mr. Pitman. No; there were not then. The sliip had not dis-
appeared then.
Senator Smith. When this was done the ship had not disappeared ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. And these cries were not heard hj you at that time ?
Mr. Pitman. No. There were no cries at that time, or until after
the ship had disappeared.
Senator Smith. And you did not transfer these four passengers
after the ship went down ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no. Some time before the ship disappeared.
Senator Smith. And then was No. 7 released ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. They slipped my rope.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Pitman. I simply lay still, |ust as we were.
Senator Smith. You just lay still, there ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the light of the CarpcUhiay or know she
was approaching?
Mr. riTMAN. We saw her lights about half past 3, as near as I can
recollect.
Senator Smfth. Did you row toward the light ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, we waited until we were certain it was a
steamer, and then we pulled toward her.
Senator Smith. How far awav did you see her, do you think?
Mr. Pitman. We could see the masthead light over 5 miles on a
clear night.
Senator Smith. When the CarpatJiia was about 5 miles away did
you row toward her ?
292 TITANIC DISASTER,
Air. Pitman. No; I waited to make certain it was a steamer,
until I could see both masthead lights.
Senator Smith. You knew it was an object ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; but I did not know what it was. It might
have been a star.
Senator Smith. Could it have been a star — could you have taken,
it for a star ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, quite possibly.
Senator Smith. But when you satisfied yourself from the number
of lights that it was a relief boat
Mr. Pitman. We pulled toward it.
Senator Smith, iou pulled toward it. At that time were there
anv people in the water ?
Mr. Pitman. There were no noises; no sounds then.
Senator Smith. All moaning and cries of distress had ceased ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; that must have been about 4 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Daybreak?
Mr. Pitman. It was just breaking day; yes.
Senator Smith. As you pulled your boat toward the Carpathia I
understood you to say you saw icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Several of them. Did you see any bodies in the
water?
Mr. Pitman. None whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. After that time ?
Mr. Pitman. None whatever, at any time.
Senator Smith. Did you, at any time during the time you were
lying on your oars awaiting developments, see lights of any other
character than those displayed on the Titanic or the Carpathia?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; some of our boats had lamps and green lights.
Senator Smith. Aside from the life boats, did you see any other
Kghts ?
Mr. Pitman. I saw one white Ught.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Pitman. Away on the horizon. We could not make anything
out of it.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Pitman. About half past 1.
Senator Smith. While you were lying on your oars ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. In the lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. In what position was it ?
Mr. Pitman. It was to the westward. Right ahead
Senator Smith. Right on the course of the Titanic?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Boxhall on that
point ?
Mr. Pitman. No, I did not. I have heard him speak about it.
Senator Smith. Describe what you saw with your own eyes.
Mr. Pitman. I just saw a white light, and that is all. I said,
"There is no use in pulling toward it until we know what it is." We
saw the light, but 1 said, "What is the use of pulling to it?" It
might have been one of our own boats with a white light on it.
t( ..»».« 9 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 293
Senator Smith. One of your own lifeboats ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see these lights at any time before you left
the Titanic?
ilr. Pitman. No, I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rockets or other signals of distress
sent up from the Titanicj under tie so-called Morse regiilations ?
Mr. riTMAN. Oh, no; the Morse lamp is altogether different from
the rocket.
Senator Smith. I understand. I will divide the question. Did
you see any Morse signals given from the Titanic before you left her
side, or whde you were lying on your oars in that lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I did not notice the Morse
Senator Smith. Did you see any rockets ?
Mr. Pitman. I should say about a dozen rockets were fired.
Senator Smith. What did you see ? What did they do ?
Mr. Pitman. They were fired from the rail. They make a report
while leaving the rail, and also an explosion in the air, and they throw
stars, of course, in the air.
Senator Smith. Red in color ?
Mr. Pitman. Various colors.
Senator Smith. You saw those signals of distress, did you, from the
Titanic ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you saw about a dozen or so of them ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been a dozen or it may have been more,
sir.
Senator Smith. When was this? When did you first see them;
before you left the Titanic?
Mr. riTMAN. No ; shortly after.
Senator Smith. Did you see any while you were aboard the Titanic,
any of that character ?
Mr. Pitman. None were fired.
Senator Smith. None were fired ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Smith. You do not know, of your own knowledge, whether
the Morse signals of distress were given ?
Mr. Pitman. There are no Morse signals of distress.
Senator Smith. Well, I mean Morse signals. I mean a communi-
cation from the Titanic
Mr. Pitman. To this supposed ship ?
Senator Smith. To this supposed ship, on yoiu* course ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; I heard of them Morseing to her; that is all. I
do not know for certain.
Senator Smith. You heard of that, but you did not see anything of
that kind ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smiih. And do not know anything about it of your own
knowledge ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have a watch on when you entered the
lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. I did, sir.
294 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Can you fix the exact moment of time when the
Titanic disappeared ?
Mr. Pitman. 2.20 exactly, ship's time. I took my watch out at
the time she disappeared, and I said, *^It is 2.20,'' and. the passengers
around me heara it.
Senator Smith. 2.20 a. m. ?
Mr. Pitman. 2.20 a. m., the 15th of April.
Senator Smith. Did the firing of the rockets make any noise like the
report of a pistol ?
Air. Pitman. Like the report of a gun.
Senator Smith. Did you, aboard the Titanic, hear anything of your
proximity to the Frankfurtj of the North German Lloyd, or any other
ship?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know what time the Helig Olav — do you
know a boat of that name ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I do not.
Senator Smith. You do not know anything about a boat of that
name ?
Mr. Pitman. There may be one.
Senator Smith. But you do not know ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I dio not know.
Senator Smith. I neglected to ask you whether, in fixing the
time when the Titanic cusappeared beneath the water, you gave me
ship's time ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; that is ship's time.
Senator Smith. You had the accurate ship's time ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When were the ship's clocks set ; do you know ?
Mr. Pitman. They are set at midnignt every night.
Senator Smith. 'They were set at midnight ?
Mr. Pitman. Every night.
Senator Smith. And were they set at midnight Sunday night ?
Mr. Pitman. No; we had something else to think of.
Senator Smith. Exactly; so that you got the ship's time?
Mr. Pitman. Ship's time.
Senator Smith. From midnight Saturday ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. And your watch
Mr. Pitman. Was correct.
Senator Smith. Was correct ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Midday or midnight, did he say ?
Senator Smith. Midnight.
Senator Fletcher. Midnight of Saturday night?
Mr. Pitman. They are corrected in the forenoon, perhaps half a
minute or a minute : that is all.
Senator Smith. What is that, Mr. Lightoller?
Mr Lightoller. The clocks are set at midnight, but that is for
the approximate noon position of the following day. Therefore Sun-
day noon the clocks will be accurate.
Senator Smith. That is Mr. Lightoller, the second officer. [To the
witness:] What was the Greenwich time compared with the ship's
time?
a ..^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 295
^Ir. PiTMAX. I can not say.
Senator Smith. Can you say, Mr. Ligh toller ?
yir. LiGHTOLLER. I can give you the Greenwich time.
Senator Smith. I wish you \v(>uld.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. 5.47-2.20 — 5.47 Greenwich mean time; 2.20
apparent time of ship.
Senator Perkins. Captain, what was the certificate the Titanic had
as to number of passengers and crew ?
Mr. Pitman, i do not know, sir.
Senator Perkins. She had over 2,000, did she not ?
Mr. Pitman. Passengers and crew ?
Senator Perkins. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. I think so.
Senator Perkins. And you had boats to accommodate only about
1,200 at the most?
Mr. Pitman. I could not say how many they were supposed to
accommodate.
Senator Perkins. Twenty lifeboats, with a capacity of about 60,
a sea boat, and a collapsible — lot us call the average 60 ; it would be
about 1,200 passengers and crew they were capable of carrying?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Perkins. Therefore she had life-saving appliances for only
about one-half of the passengers and crew ?
Mr. Pitman. All these details can be got from the builders, I sup-
pose.
Senator Perkins. She had a certificate from the board of trade in
London or Liverpool, did she not ?
Mr. PrrMAN. The British Board of Trade, issued from London, I
suppose.
Senator Burton. Are you quite sure, Mr. Pitman, that you saw a
white light ahead ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; but I am not certain what it was attached to.
It may have been one of our own boats.
Senator Burton. That is, one of the lifeboats that had been cut
loose ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; one of the lifeboats.
Senator Burton. Could you not tell whether it was a steamer or
sailing vessel coming on your course, or whether it was a floating
lifeboat there right near at hand ?
Mr. Pitman. No; because there was no motion in it, no movement.
Senator Burton. Whatever it was, it was not moving ?
Mr. Pitman. Not moving.
Senator Burton. How long was it visible ?
Mr. Pitman. I really could not say; I did not really take any
notice of it.
Senator Burton. When did you first see it ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been 1 o'clock or half past 1. One of
my men called my attention to the white light over there.
Senator Burton. How far distant did it seem to be ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been 3 miles.
Senator Burton, iou did not see the red light on the starboard
side?
Mr. Pitman. No; I did not?
296 TITANIO DISASTBB.
Senator Burton. You did not think, then, that that was a steamer
or a sailing vessel coming ?
Mr. Pitman. Xo; I did not, sir.
Senator Burton. I believe that is all.
Senator Newlands. What is the fastest ship you have ever
sailed on ?
Mr. Pitman. The Titanic, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Who was the chief officer on the Titanic f
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Wilde.
Senator Fletcher. And there were how many other officers ?
Mr. Pitman. Six.
Senator Fletcher. You designate them as the chief officer, and
then the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Fletcher. What are the duties of the chief officer ?
Mr. Pitman. He keeps his watch the same as the others, the same
as the first and second, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What became of him ?
Mr. Pitman. He went with the rest.
Senator Fletcher. When did you see him last, and where ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not recollect seeing him at all, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember seeing him at all that
Simday night?
Mr. Pitman. Not after 8 p. m.
Senator Fletcher. W^as ne on duty at all ?
Mr. Pitman. No; not from 6. He was due on watch at 2 a. m.
Senator Fletcher. And he went oflF watch when ?
Mr. Pitman. At 6 p. ra.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see him about the ship at all after
the accident ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir; no.
Senator Fletcher. And then the first officer was who ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Murdock.
Senator Fletcher. And you testified about seeing him last when
you lowered boat No. 5 ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Fletcher. When did he go on duty that night ?
Mr. Pitman. He was on duty then, at the time of the accident; at
10 o'clock he went on.
Senator Fletcher. Who was the second officer?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. lightoller.
Senator Fletcher. When did he go on duty ?
Mr. Pitman. He liad left the bridge at 10; he was on duty from
6 to 10.
Senator Fletcher. You saw him about the decks after the
accident ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I can not say that I did, because he was on the
opposite side of tlie ship from me. I was on the starboard side and he
was on the port side. 1 did see him once on the port side; yes.
Senator Fletcher. What was he doing when you saw him ?
Mr. Pitman. Superintending the clearmg away of the boats.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see him any other time except at that
moment when he was superintending the clearing of the boats %
ii ..^ ^ f9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 297
Mr. Pitman. No; I did not see him after that. The next time
I saw him was when we came alongside of the Carpafhia,
Senator Fletcher. What were his duties ?
Mr. Pitman. The same as tiie first.
Senator Fletcher. Where did he belong at that time? What
was his particular place on the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. At the time of tlie accident ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. PiTBfAN. He was off watch then; he was in bed.
Senator Fletcher. Were his quarters close to yours ?
ilr. Pitman. Next door.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see him when you got up and
went out, when you first heard of the accident ?
Mr. Pitman. I saw him when I was coming back; on my return.
Senator Fletcher. Did vou hear him give any orders or direc-
tions or instructions, or anybody rive him any instructions or orders ?
Mr. Pitman. No; we were inside, in our own quarters then.
Senator Fletcher. But after that ?
3klr. Pitman. No; I did not. I was not in his company after that.
Senator Fletcher. The next oflBcer was who ?
Mr. Pitman. Myself.
Senator Fletcher. You were in charge of boat No. 5 ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What were your duties in connection with that
boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Simply to get it out and get the people into it, and
get her away.
Senator Fletcher. Is the officer in charge of the boat expected to
go with the boat if it leaves the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Not necessarily so.
Senator Fletcher. Is it his duty to see that the boat is properly
loaded ?
Mr. Pitman. The senior officer will see to that, superintending the
lowering of the boats.
Senator Fletcher. Who was the senior officer that night ?
Mr. Pitman. Mr. Murdock was the senior officer on that side.
Senator Fletcher. After the boat is lowered and in command of
the officer who is placed in command of it, it is his duty to direct the
movement of that boat, is it not ?
Mr. Pitman. Exactly.
Senator Fletcher, irrespective of any suggestions or demands of
passengers or crew ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Can you draw just a rough diagram showing
the location of those boats on the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. I can show you a pnotograph of it that would be
better than a drawing. I am not a very good hand at that.
Senator Fletcher. You can show a photograph showing the loca-
tion of the boats, and their numbers ?
Mr. Pitman. I can. [Handing photograph.]
Senator Fletcher. Start, for instance
Mr. Pitman. Forward?
Senator Fletcher. Forward. You are looking at the stem here^
are you not ? How are the boats numbered on the starboard ?
298 TITANIC DISASTEE.
Mr. Pitman. Even numbers one side and odd numbers the other.
Senator Fletcher. Which is which ?
Mr. Pitman. Theport side would be No. 2.
Senator Smith. Witness, just number the boats on this diagram
[handing witness diagram].
Senator Fletcher. How are they numbered ?
Mr. Pitman. Even numbers port side, odd numbers starboard side.
Senator Fletcher. Beginning on the starboard side, you com-
mence with No. 1, the emergency boat, do you not?
Mr. Pitman. With No. 1.
Senator Fletcher. That is the emergency boat, is it not ?
Mr. Pitman. Emergency; yes.
Senator Fletcher. That boat is swung away from the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. It is always swung out.
Senator Fletcher. Then the next one to that would be No. 3 ;
that is a lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Nos. 3,5,7,9, 11, 13, and 15; this is the starboard side.
Senator Fletcher. On the port side you would begin with No. 2,
the emergency boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Nos. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16. There are no numbers
given to the coUapsibles.
Senator Fletcher. Where are the collapsible boats placed ?
Mr. Pitman. Close bv the bridge.
Senator Fletcher. Under what numbers ?
Mr. Pitman. Under Nos. 1 and 2.
Senator Fletcher. The coUapsibles are placed under Nos. 1 and 2 ?
Mr. Pitman. Two of them are.
Senator J'letcher. Then there are four of these ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; the other two of them are close by the funnel.
Senator Fletcher. Under Nos. 4 and 6 ?
Mr. Pitman. Abreast of Nos. 3 and 4.
Senator Fletcher. On the house ?
Mr. Pitman. On the officers' house.
Senator Fletcher. What officer had charge of No. 7 1
Mr. Pitman. There was no officer in that boat.
Senator Fletcher. What officer was assigned to No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No officer was assigned to it — a petty officer.
Senator Fletcher. Whose station was it ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not remember them all.
Senator Fletcher. You stated at one time that the fifth and sixth
officers were placed in charge of boats, did you not ?
Mr. Pitman. That was at Southampton.
Senator Fletcher. How about on the voyage ?
Mr. Pitman. We were each allotted a boat.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember what officer was assigned
to No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Fletcher. You testified that Mr. Murdock superintended
the loading of No. 7, did you not ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Whom did he place in charge of the boat when
it was loaded ?
Mr. Pitman. A quartermaster, I think.
t€ „«.-.. ^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 299
Senator Fletcher. Did he continue in charge ? Did he go with
the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Fletcher. He went with the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. He went with the boat.
Senator Fletcher. What assistants did he have in that boat ?
Mr, Pitman. Two or three more of the crew there with him. What
rating they were I can not say.
Senator Fletcher. I understood you to say that after you reached
the water and found No. 7 and attached your boat to her, there was
no officer in charge of her — no one able to row her ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir. No; I said there was no officer there.
Senator Fletcher. I am talking about No. 7, the lifeboat.
Mr. Pitman. There was a quartermaster in charge.
Senator Fletcher. Who were the people in No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. What do you mean — the passengers or the crew ?
Senator Fletcher. Everybody.
Mr. Pitman. I have not the slightest idea who the people were
in her.
Senator Fletcher. You saw her the next morning ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; but I do not know one passenger in a thousand.
Senator Fletcher. No; but I mean, speaking generally, with ref-
erence to the men, women, and children, now many were in the boat t
Mr. Pitman. I really could not say.
Senator Fletcher. I understood you to say that when No. 7
reached the water you afterwards had her attached to your boat,
because there was nobody in her to row No. 7.
Mr. Pitman. No; not to row it. My idea of lashing together was
to keep together, so that if nothing hove in sight before davlight we
could steady ourselves and cause a lar bigger show than one Doat only
and with far more hope of being picked up. That was my idea in
hanging together.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know how many oarsmen there were
in No. 7?
Mr. Pitman. I do not, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were there plenty of capable oarsmen in No. 7
to navigate her ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not know anything about the crew in No. 7 at all.
Senator Fletcher. Notwithstanding she was right alongside of
you?
Mr. Pitman. No; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. Did you notice her when she was unloaded on
the Carpaihiaf
Mr. riTMAN. No; I did not, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long after vour boat was reached by the
Carvaihm was it before No. 7 was reached ?
iir. Pitman. It may have been 20 minutes. I did not assist in
unloading No. 7.
Senator Fletcher. Why did you place on No. 7 two men, as you
have stated ?
Mr. Pitman. Two passengers, that was.
Senator Fletcher. Two passengers ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Why did you do that ?
300 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. Simply to even them up a bit.
Senator Fletcher. You had plenty of room on your boat for all
you had, and for more ?
Mr. Pitman. I could have taken a few more in my boat.
Senator Fletcher. And still you insisted that No. 7 should take
two of your men and a woman and a child ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not insist. They wished to do it, and so I let
them go.
Senator Fletcher. They asked to do that ?
Mr. Pitman. They asked.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know who was in charge of No. 7 then;
w^ho was commanding No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No, su*; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. Was it a member of the crew ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes; a member of the crew; a quartermaster, as
far as I can recollect.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember his name ?
Mr. Pitman. All the men were new to me, practically.
Senator Fletcher. They did not want these men to assist in the
oar work of No. 7, then ?
Mr. Pitman. No; there was no oar work to be done, anyhow; they
did not know where to pull to at that time.
Senator Fletcher. Saturday night, or Sunday morning, you said
you heard of the icebergs. Did not the commander post notice or
warning with regard to icebergs in the chart room, where the officers
could see it ?
Mr. Pitman. He had it in his own navigating room, and he also
gave some one the position to put on the chart, which Mr. Boxhall
did, I think.
Senator Fletcher. Are the marconigrams posted generally in the
chart room ?
Mr. Pitman. They are alwavs accessible.
Senator Fletcher. To all tne oflRcers ?
Mr. Pitman. Generally speaking, yes. Each commander has a
different system.
Senator Fletcher. Is there not a sort of deck log kept by the
officers ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes.
Senator Fletcher. Where these matters, warnings as to icebergs,
and things Uke that, would be noted ?
Mr. Pitman. They are stuck on the notice board. We have a
notice board, a blackboard. They stick them on there.
Senator Fletcher. Do you remember whether any such notice or
warning was posted on this blackboard prior to Sunday or during
Sunday?
Mr. riTMAN. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Fletcher. You do not recall ?
Mr. Pitman. There is one position they put on the chart. I can
recollect that.
Senator Fletcher. That position was indicated on the chart by
Mr. Boxhall ?
Mr* Pitman. I think it was Mr. Boxhall.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember exactly when that was
done i
tt ««.,«. ^^^^ 9>
TITANIC DISASTER. 301
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Fletcher. You do remember that the chart showed ice-
bergs off the route or track ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; away to the north of the track.
Senator Fletcher. How do you know what was the proper track
or route of the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. How do I know it?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
ifr. Pitman. It is simply laid down for us.
Senator Fletcher. Laii down on the chart ?
ilr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And how do you know you were precisely
where the chart showed the track to be ?
Mr. Pitman. Because we got observations at half past 7 that night.
Senator Fletcher. You biew that from your observations ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And you could see that this iceberg, as noted,
was off the track, and off the route you were traveling ?
Mr. Pitman. Off the track.
Senator Fletcher. But you do not know liow far?
Mr. Pftman. Yes; we had the exact position of it.
Senator Fletcher. How far was it off?
Mr. Pitman. I really could not sav unless I had the position of the
iceberg here now and put it on the chart.
Senator Fletcher. Was there only one iceberg indicated, or did
the cross with the word ' ' Ice " indicate the presence of ice generally ?
Mr. Pitman. I think there was only one.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know how he came to note that one on
the chart ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; we got it by marconigram from some ship.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember seeing the marcomgram ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I do not. I remember Capt. Smith showed the
position to the officer of the watch, or at least one of the junior offi-
cers, and he says, ''Take this position,'' and ho took it down and put it
on the chart and stuck the leaf up in a rack. He wrote it on a sort
of paper and stuck it on the frame.
Senator Fletcher. You do not recall exactly when that was done ?
Mr. Pitman. No. It was some time Sunday.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear any more about icebergs dis-
cussed among the officers, or in any other way ?
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Fletcher. What officer had charge of the log of the ship ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, the fifth and sixth usually keep that. Which
log do you mean? We keep two or three. The scrap log is kept on
the bridge; the fifth and sixth look after that. The cnief officer s log
is copied from that. Which do you mean ?
Senator Fletcher. All of them.
Mr. Pitman. The fifth and sixth keep the scrap log, as everything
happens on the bridge, alterations of courses, deviations, and that
sort of thinff. and it is copied from there into the chief officer's log,
which is refidly the official log.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know if any of the logs were saved ?
Mr. Pitman. None, sir. We had something else to think of
besides log books, sir.
({ ^ .^,,« ff
302 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. You say the ship was gomg about 22 knots ?
Mr. Pitman. About 21^.
Senator Fletcher. Twenty-one and one-half knots per hour.
And you say you had to study the question of coal ? What do you
mean by that? Did you take account of the amount of coal vou
had <
Mr. Pitman. Yes; I understood we had not quite sufficient; there
was not sufficient there on board to drive here on at full speed.
Senator Fletcher. How do you know that ?
Mx. Pitman. I had that from one of the engineers.
Senator Fletcher. Did you ask him whether he had enough coal
to drive her at full speed ?
Mr. Pitman. I knew we had not; he told me that we had not quit«
sufficient.
Senator Fletcher. What speed were you intending to make?
Mr. Pitman. We were intending to arrive in New York Wednes-
day morning.
Senator Fletcher. When did jou gather that to be the intention ?
Mr. Pitman. From the beginning of the trip.
Senator Fletcher. At the beginning of the trip ; and from whom ?
Mr. Pitman. That was the general impression tnroughout the ship.
Senator Fletcher. In order to do that, how many knots per hour
would you have had to make ?
Mr. Pitman. About twenty and a quarter — 21 knots.
Senator Fletcher. Had you increased the speed after leaving
Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. After we left Queenstown we had.
Senator Fletcher. How much had you increased your speed
Sunday night?
Mr. Pitman. To 21^ knots.
Senator Fletcher. What increase was that over the speed you
had been making prior to that ?
Mr. Pitman. Only about a knot.
Senator Fletcher. You had been making about 20^ ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, 20} and 20i first, after we left Queenstown.
Senator Fletcher. How long did that continue ?
Mr. Pitman. The next day, 21.
Senator Fletcher. And you kept increasing up to 21^, so that at
the time the iceberg was struck you were traveling at the highest rate
of speed at which you had been going during the trip ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; the same speed we nad been traveling for the
last 24 hours.
Senator Fletcher. The same speed ?
Mr. Pitman. The same speed.
Senator Fletcher. You were told, you say, by the engineer, that
you did not have coal enough to go at a faster rate of speed than that?
Mr. Pitman. He remarked w^e had not sufficient coal on board to
drive her full speed all the way across.
Senator Fletcher. Did you change ihe course of the ship after
leaving Queenstown ?
Mr. Pitman. Change the course of the ship ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. A number of times.
Senator Fletcher. Wliere was the last change of direction made \
'' TITANIC " DISASTEB. 303
Mr. Pitman. 5.50 on Sunday night.
Senator Fletcher. Sunday night \
ilr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Where was that change made ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not remember the position.
Senator Fletcher. Before that, were you traveUng along the
southerly track ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And then you changed to this northerly course ?
Mr. Pitman. No. We stuck to the track we were supposed to
follow from the 14th of January to the 14th of August, just as agreed
upon by the big steamship companies.
Senator Fletcher. Is tnat wliat is known as the northern track?
Mr. Pitman. That is known as the southern track.
Senator Fletcher. Which is known as the southern track ?
Mr. Pitman. The one we were coming out on.
Senator Fletcher. Known as the southern track ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. We speak of the northern track as the track
we follow between the 14th of August and the 14th of January. We
speak of that as the northern tracK.
Senator Fletcher. There is no course, to the south of the one you
were traveling, that is used for travel ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, I believe there is.
Senator Fletcher. What course were you on, if you can remember,
at 5.50 p. m., Sunday?
Mr. Pitman. No, 1 can not remember. If I had the true course, I
could make it.
Senator Fletcher. What extent of change did you make in the
course at 5.50 p. m., or about that time, Sunday?
Mr. Pitman. I am not quite certain about that.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know any such designation as the
•'corner?''
Mr. Pitman. Yes, we were supposed to be at the corner at 5.50.
Senator Fletcher. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Pitman. That is 47° west and 42° north.
Senator Fletcher. At 5.50 p. m. you turned what you call the
''corner?"
Mr. Pitman. The corner, yes.
Senator Fletcher. And you make almost a right angle change
there, do you not ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no.
Senator Fletcher. You make a considerable change in your course
at the turning of the corner ?
>Ir. Pitman. No, it is not a great deal; not a right-angle turn by
any means.
Senator Fletcher. What change does that lead you to, the north-
ward of the way you were going ?
Mr. Pitman. No; the course we were on when we struck
Senator Fletcher. How many degrees did you change ?
Mr. PriMAN. I can not remember. If I had a chart here I could
tell you in a minute. South (S4 or 86 west would be the true course
wo were making after 5.50; south 84 or 86, I am not quite certain
which, was the true course.
40475— pt 4—12 4
it -,»».. ^,^^ ff
304 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. Do you remember the course prior to that ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I can not remember it.
Senator Fletcher. Do you remember whether you increased speed
after turning that corner ?
Mr. Pitman. No ; we did not, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Ab I understand, vou sav that Mr. Ismav told
you that you had better get aboard with the women and cliildren ?
Mr. Pitman. No, no. He remarked to me, '^You had better to
ahead and get the women and children;*' and I replied that I would
await the commander's orders. I did not know it was Mr. Ismav at
the time.
Senator Fletcher. Did vou tell him what Mr. Ismav said ?
Mr. Pitman. I said I judged that it was Mr. Ismav.
Senator Fletcher. And vou told him what Mr. Ismav said ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. What did the commander say ?
Mr. Pitman. '^ Carry on.''
Senator Fletcher. That meant vou were to obev the direction of
Mr. Ismay?
Mr. Pitman. No; not bv anv means.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat did it mean ?
Mr. Pitman. It meant that I was to fill the boat with women.
Senator Fletcher. And lower the boat ? Did it include that ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes. We take no orders from anybody except
the commander.
Senator Fletcher. He said '^Cany on," and that meant for you
to go on and load the boat and lower it and get tlie people off, the
women and children '<
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. How do you account for the fact that at that
time there were no women and children around to be seen, even, let
alone asking to get on board the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not account for that, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any trying to get into No. 7 ?
Mr. Pitman. No, I did not, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any tiying to get into any other
boats on the starboard side ?
Mr. Pitman. No. Those were the only two boats coming down at
that time — No. 5 and No. 7.
Senator Fletcher. Had the others gone down?
Mr. Pitman. No; No. 7 was the first to ^o.
Senator Fletcher. And you went with No. 5, next.
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any of the others after No. 7 was
lowered ?
Mr. Pitman. From a distance.
Senator Fletcher. Did you know whether they were loaded or
not ? Could you tell whether they were full ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not, sir. I helped to discharge them when they
got to the Carpathia, but I did not take any notice of how many
there were there.
Senator Fletcher. How long did it take to lower the boat after
you got the people into it ?
it ^*^.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 305
Mr. Pitman. It may have been a minute and it may have been
two minutes.
Senator Fletcher. How manv men does it take to lower that
boat?
Mr. Pitman. Two men.
Senator Fletcher. What is the distance the boat has to go to get
to the water t
Mr. Pitman. Weil, we had to go 70 feet.
Senator Fletcher. Do I correctly understand vou to say that you
would not consider it safe to load a boat to its full capacity at the
rail before lowering it ?
Mr. Pitman. No ; I do not think it would be wise to do it.
Senator Fletcher. Well, under the conditions obtaining there,
where there were not enough boats to take care of more than one-
third of the passengers, would you not risk loading the boat to its
full capacity oef ore lowering it ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I do not think it would be wise to do so.
Senator Fletcher. Suppose the boat carries 65 people; how
many would you feel it safe to put into the boat before lowering it ?
&Ir. Pitman. That would depend a lot on the condition of the
boat, whether it was an old boat or a new boat.
Senator Fletcher. Well, I am taking conditions as they were
there that night and those people.
Mr. Pitman. I think 40 would be a very safe load. I do not think
boats are ever intended to be filled from the rail.
Senator Fletcher. How did you calculate to fill the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. It was according to the number of people to go in.
Senator Fletcher. How did vou expect to fill them ?
Mr. Pitman. With a side ladder.
Senator Burton. That is, let them down in the water and fill them
with a side ladder ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. From deck E ?
Mr. Pitman. No; it would not be E. It would be about D or C;
C deck, I should say.
Senator Fletcher. It is intended and expected, then, to fill the
boats by first lowering the boat and then letting the people down on
side ladders ?
Mr. ftTMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Or through doors ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Why was not that course pursued in this
instance ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, it was a new ship, and everything new, of
course. It takes a certain amount of risk. That was a much
quicker wav, too.
Senator J'letcher. Which is the much quicker way ?
Mr. Pitman. The way we did it.
Senator Fletcher. You say^ that you did not see any of the
boats lowered on the port side ?
• Mr. Pitman. Not one, no.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat course did you take after your boat was
lowered into the water ? Did you go to the stern of the Titxmic, to the
bow, or oflF from her ?
306 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Pitman. Just rowed off from her, that way [indicating].
Senator Fletcher. Which way ?
Mr. Pitman. To the north.
Senator Fletcher. To the north how far?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been three or four hundred yards.
Senator Fletcher. And there you lay on your oars ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, waiting for future developments.
Senator Fletcher. And No. 7
Mr. Pitman. Did Ukewise.
Senator Fletcher. And remained close by you until some time in
the morning, when she cast off your rope and took care of herself ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. About what time in the morning was that ?
Mr. Pitman. It may have been about a quarter to 3 or 3 o'clock.
Senator Fletcher. Just before you saw the Carpathiaf
Mr. Pitman. Oh, an hour before we saw her, approximately.
Senator Fletcher. You saw the Carpathia about 3.30 o'clock, you
said?
Mr. Pitman. Somewhere about then.
Senator Fletcher. Did you think it proper to take into your boat
two firemen and two stewards; were they of any use as seamen?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; thejr were.
Senator Fletcher. Why did you take those two firemen and two
stewards when you only needed four men to row the boat and you
could supply the place of one of those yourself ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, I wanted somebody in the boat that knew
something about it.
Senator Fletcher. Did they understand that sort of work ?
Mr. Pitman. Three of them did, and probably the fourth one did ;
but I never tried him.
Senator Fletcher. And you had one sailor ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. You had one sailor, two firemen, and two
stewards ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And five or six male passengers besides those ?
Mr. Pitman. Well, those three male passengers.
Senator Fletcher. After the bow oi the Titanic went down, vou
heard these explosions ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I did not hear them until the ship had disap-
peared altogether.
Senator P letcher. After the bow of the Titanic went down, she
assumed an almost upright position ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long after getting into that position was
it before she disappeared entirely ?
Mr. Pitman. I think it must have been a question of seconds.
Senator Fletcher. And then came the explosions?
Mr. Pitman. Then came the explosions.
Senator Fletcher. And after the bow was submerged the bridge
was submerged. How long was it before she went down completely ?
Mr. Pitman. I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. How long was it after your boat was in the
water before she went down, as near as you can fix it ?
t < ^ . ^ f 9
TITANIC DISASTBB. 307
Mr. Pitman. How long before ?
Senator Fletcher. How long was it after your boat was lowered
into the water before the 2 .20 hour arrived and the Titanic went down %
Mr. Pitman. I should say an hour and a half.
Senator Fletcher. You said to your men, ''Get out your oars and
pull toward the wreck'' ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were not their oars already out ?
Mr. Pitman. There may have been one out, but the others had
SuUed them in and laid them across the boat. Of course it was that
ark I really could not say.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know anything about the speed of the
TUanie after 8 p. m. on Sunday ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You mean you did not make any observations,
yourself, after that time ?
Mr. Pitman. I was in bed, sir.
Senator Burton. In speaking of a change in course, do you not
mean a change of direction, as indicated by tne points of the compass ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And that follows the track as laid down, in which
there are changes in the direction, as indicated by the compass. That
is right, is it not ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes,
Senator Burton. Now, about that light — a minute or two. You
were on the starboard side most of the time ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; all of the time.
Senator Burton. If there had been a light on the port side, you
could not have seen it ?
Mr. Pitman. That depends on where it was.
Senator Burton. If it was within 5 miles or nearer ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I could not.
Senator Burton. You were not there long enough to recognize it
even if it had been there ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Burton. You think this white light you saw was sta-
tionary ?
Mr. Pitman. I do.
Senator Burton. And it was about 3 miles away ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Burton. Would it not have been impossible for any one
of the lifeboats to have gotten that far away at the time you saw it f
Mr. Pitman. Impossible to have gotten to that light? Well, I do
not know. I do not think so.
Senator Burton. For how long a time did you see it?
Mr. Pitman. I could not really say. I did not take any particular
notice of this light ; I was not interested in it
Senator Burton. That is, you did not consider it as anything that
could afford safety ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Burton. You did not think it belonged to a steamer?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; it is only what I have heard since.
Senator Newlands. You say you were on the southerly track ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
< i —- . . ^^•^ 9 >
308 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Newlands. How far distant were you from the northerly
rack?
Mr. Pitman. Well, that varies.
Senator Newlands. About how far?
Mr. Pitman. In the position where we sank I think it is about 50
miles. You can measure it off on the chart and ^et it accurate.
Senator Newlands. Do you recall whether the iceberg, as noted on
the chart, was on the line of the northerly track ?
Mr. Pitman. No; it was to the northward of the southerly track.
Senator Newlands. Was it to the north of the northern track ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; it was south of the northern track. I think
there is more than 60 miles difference there.
Senator Newlands. Then, according to the chart, it was less than
60 miles distant from the southerly track ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not give it to you with accuracy, but you can
get it off here, sir, within a mile.
Senator Newlands. What I want to ascertain is this: Was this
iceberg, as located on the chart, between the northern and southern
tracks or was it to the north of the northerly track ?
Mr. Pitman. Between the northern and southern tracks.
Senator Newlands. Do you recollect which track it was nearest to ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not, sir.
Senator Newlands. During your experience at sea has notice been
given frequently by marconigram of the location of icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; we alwa^ pass it along from one to another.
Senator Newlands. What is the custom of the ships when they
receive word of that kind ; is it the custom to slow down or to main-
tain their speed ?
Mr. Pitman. To maintain speed, sir.
Senator Newlands. To mamtain speed ?
Mr. Pitman. Certainly.
Senator Newlands. What do they rely upon for avoiding accident f
Mr. Pitman. Picking up these bergs; as a rule, they are seen.
Senator Newlands. They are more easily seen, of course, during
the day ; and how about it m the night ?
Mr. riTMAN. I have never seen one at night, and so I can not say.
Senator Newlands. What is the custom as to the night; is it cus-
tomaiy to maintain speed even then, simply relying upon the expecta-
tion of picking up the icebergs, as you say ?
Mr. riTMAN. I think so.
Senator Newlands. How fast do these icebergs travel ? Their
Seneral course, of course, is toward the south. Have you any idea
ow fast they go ?
Mr. Pitman. That would depend upon the question of current and
wind.
Senator Fletcher. In regard to the icebergs, I understood you
to say that you saw on Monday morning a numoer of icebergs in that
vicinity?
Mr. riTMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And some of those were as high as 100 feet
above the water ?
Mr. Pitman. I should say so; about that.
Senator Fletcher. What would that mean as to the extent be-
neath the surface of the water ?
ft 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 309
Mr. Pitman. They say two-thirds of an iceberg is submerged.
Senator Fletcher. So that if the iceberg the Titanic struck was
30 feet above the surface, how much would there have been beneath
the surface?
Mr. Pitman. Two- thirds of it.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether you got a view of that
particular berg the next morning %
Mr. Pitman. No one could say that — that he saw that particular
berg.
Senator Fletcher. You could not tell, from where you were when
daylight came, precisely the direction from you in which the Titanic
was when she went down ?
Mr. Pitman. No; I could not.
Senator Fletcher. You could not do that ?.
Mr. Pitman. No.
Senator Fletcher. There was no way you could tell that, by
wreck^e or anything else on the surface i
Mr. Pitman. No; you could not say accurately which one it was..
Senator Fletcher. How far were you at that time from the place
where the Titanic went down ?
Mr. Pitman. That would be hard to say.
Senator Fletcher. You had not been rowing very much ?
Mr. Pitman. No; we had been drifting with a little wind.
Senator Fletcher. And there was not very much wind ?
Mr. Pitman. No; we got a little wind at 4 o'clock, a little breeze at
4 o'clock.
Senator Fletcher. And there was no fog that night ?
Mr. Pitman. No; no fog.
Senator Fletcher. Ana you can not give us an idea about how
far you were at daylight next morning from the place where the
Titanic went down ?
Mr. Pitman. No; because there was nothing to tell me where the
Titanic had sunk.
Senator Fletcher. You knew whether you had been exerting
yourselves to make any headway one way or the other, whether you
nad been rowing or drifting ?
Mr. Pitman. 1 would sav that we may have been a mile away.
Senator Fletcher. Could you see the ioeben^ in the direction of
what you supposed to be the place where the Titanic went down ?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes. There were several of them around there,
but I could not say with any degree of accuracy which one it was.
Senator Fletcher. You could see several of them off, could you
not?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes; in the daylight, with the sun shining on them.
Senator Fletcher. With regard to the closing of the watertight
compartments, was there any need of any lever or key in order to do
that? Would not the doors close automatically?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; from the bridge; those in the lower holds.
Senator Fletcher. Explain how that was operated. You have
been asked something about that by the chairman, and it is not clear,
I think, in the record, about the need of some one goin^ there and
using a key, and that sort of thing, in connection with tnose doors.
How do they work ?
Mr. Pitman. I can not explain the working of them down below.
310 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Nbwlands. How do you close, them ?
Mr. Pitman. There is a lever 7 or 8 inches long
Senator Fletcher. Where is that ?
Mr. Pitman. On the bridge; close to the man at the wheel. All
you have to do is to just pull it over like that [indicating by describ-
ing half a circle].
Senator Fletcher. What is the effect of that ?
Mr. Pitman. That closes the doors electrically.
Senator Fletcher. They come right down ?
Mr. Pitman. They come right down.
Senator Fletcher. They just come right down, and they do not
open and shut, out and in?
Mr. Pitman. Oh, no; stright down that way [indicating]. There
is an electrical bell beside them. You ring that a few minutes before
closing, so as to give any one a chance to get out of the way who might
be standing underneath.
Senator F'lbtcher. When you took boat No. 5, and lowered that
boat, you say you saw some men standing around the deck, but no
women or children. Were the men excited; were they desirous of
taking a boat, or was their attitude one of confidence that the Titanic
was going to float, and that they w^e in about as safe a position on
board the Titanic as they would be in on the lifeboat ?
Mr. Pitman. Well sir, there was no push to get into the boat. I
said there was no room for any more, and thev simply stood back.
Senator Fletcher. They wanted to get in i
Mr. Pitman. They would have gotten in if they had been told to
get in.
Senator Fletcher. But they did want to get in; or, would they
rather stay on the boat ?
Mr. Pitman. They did not push themselves at all.
Senator Perkins. Wlien you are approaching land, and in close
proximity to it, and think you may oe near ice floes, especially in
loggy weather, do you not double the lookout ?
Mr. Pitman. In foggy weather.
Senator Perkins. And are not the officers cautioned to be more
vigilant?
Mr. Pitman. Yes; and the lookout men are also cautioned.
Senator Perkins. Was that so in this instance, as regards cau
tioning-
Mr.riTMAN. The lookout men ?
Senator Perkins. Yes.
Mr. Pitman. I can not say, because I was not on deck from 8 until
12 o'clock.
Senator Perkins. How many officers were on the b idge at that
time?
Mr. Pitman. Two, I think.
Senator Perkins. And a quartermaster in attendance?
Mr. Pitman. A quartermaster in attendance, and a quartermaster
at the wheel.
Senator Smith. Captain, we were given the ship's time and the
Greenwich time. Are you able to give the New York time, as to
when this vessel sank ? ,
Mr. Pitman. Take five hours from the British time.
Senator Smith. That would bring it to 12.47.
tf ^ . 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 311
Mr. Pitman. There is five hours difference between Greenwich
time and New York time.
Senator Smith. Will vou figure it out? I want this definite in the
record. Give me the New York time.
Mr, Pitman. GivB me the Greenwich time, please?
Senator Smith. You can take your time to do that.
Mr. Pitman (after making calculation). 11.47 p. m., Sunday.
Senator Burton. That is not quite right, is it?
Senator Smith. It would be 12.47 a. m.
Senator Burton. The difference in solar time is 4 hours and 67
minutes, if you want to get that exactly.
Senator Smith. I would like to have the record as complete as
possible.
Mr. Pitman. It is 12.47 Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Give the ship's time from which you make the
deduction.
Mr. FtTMAN. I am working through the British mean time. That
is 5.47.
Senator Smith. You are working from
Mr. Pitman. The Greenwich time.
Senator Smith. The Greenwich time ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And assuming it to be what time ?
Mr. Pitman. 5.47 a. m., Greenwich time.
Senator Smith. It would be 12.47?
Mr. Pitman. 12.47 a. m^ Monday morning, New York time.
Senator Smith. Now, officer, did you see, while lifeboat No. 5 was
being loaded, or while lifeboat No. 7 was being loaded, any woman
step into the lifeboat and step back upon the deck ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; none.
Senator Smith. Did you hear of such an incident ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You recall nothing of that kind, so far as your
station was concerned ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the Titanic equipped with a searchlight ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith Did you ever see a mercliantman equipped with a
searchlight ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir; except small coasting steamers.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of the proximity of the ice-
bergs Monday morning following this catastrophe, do you believe that
the use of searchlights would have revealed the proximity of icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. It might have done so.
Senator Smith. That is your best judgment about it ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen searchlights used aboard naval
craft?
Mr. Pitman. I have seen them used, but I have never been on
board, myself.
Senator Smith. Where have you seen them used ; in England ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes.
Senator Smith. They equip their battleships with searchUghts, do
they not, in England ?
(t -«■.». «,*^ 'f
312 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Pitman. Oh, yes; every one of them.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether there was a fire in
the hold after leaving Southampton ?
Mr. Pitman. That is the first I have heard of it.
Senator SMrrH. You may answer in your own way. You have not
heard of it before ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether the passengers were
awakened, to your knowledge, by the officers of the ship after the
impact ?
Mr. Pitman. Not by any of us. No, that would be up to the vict-
ualing department to see them called.
Senator Smith. Did you see any calls or signals of that character
given ?
Mr. Pitman. Orders had been pa^ed before I came on deck, sir.
Senator Smith. After you came on deck, closely following the
impact, you heard none of those orders or warnings or signals given ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir. I did not come on decK until 10 minutes
after the impact; quite 10 minutes.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any reason why the«speed of the
Titanic was not slackened after the warnings of the proximity of ice-
bergs were received ?
Mr. Pitman. I do not think the speed was reduced.
Senator Smith. Do you know why it was not reduced ?
Mr. Pitman. No. It is not customary.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, of any water
entering the boiler rooms ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, of any order
given to haul fire from the boilers ?
Mr. PriMAN. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any evidences of a conflagration or
fire aboard the Titanic at any time ?
Mr. Pitman. No, sir.
Senator Smith. If there had been any order given to keep a sharp
lookout for ice, would it have been entered on an order book or the
log?
Mr. Pitman. That is usually put on the commander's night order
book.
Senator Smith. Did you see anything of that kind ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not see the night order book that night, because
it is not issued, as a rule, until between 6 and 8.
Senator Smith. Did you see it the night before ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir; I saw it the night before, because we had to
sign it every night.
Senator Smith. I understand. You saw it the night before?
Mr. Pitman. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And at that time did you see any order to keep a
sharp lookout for ice ?
Mr. Pitman. No; there was none, because we were not in the ice
region.
Senator Smith. That was not my question, exactly. Read my
question.
tf ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 318
The reporter repeated the question, as follows :
At that time did you see any order to keep a sharp lookout for ice?
Senator Smith. Recorded.
Mr. Pitman. You are speaking about the 24 hours previous; you
are talking about Saturday night ?
Senator Smith. I am.
Mr. Pitman. None that night; no.
Senator Smith. Xor at any other time ?
Mr. Pitman. No; because we were not in the ice region.
Senator Smith. Can you indicate what, if any, progress the ship
made in speed after the collision ?
Mr. Pitman. Any progress she made ? I do not follow you.
Senator Smith. I want to know whether the engines were reversed
and the ship was permitted to drift, or whether she kept under her
power.
Mr. Pitman. Oh, as far as I heard, she went full astern immediately
after the collision.
Senator Smith. She reversed her engines ?
Mr. Pitman. She reversed her engines and went full astern.
Senator Smith. She reversed her engines, then, and receded from
the point of contact?
^Ir. Pitman. She was past it then, I think. We brought the ship
to a standstill.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see that ship move after it was
brought to a standstill, except when it sank in tne sea ?
Mr. Pitman. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. To the best of your knowledge, did it move ?
Mr. Pitman. She did not move.
Senator Fletcher. She must have gone down right near the ice-
berg ?
Mr. Pitman. No; she must have gone a far distance past it. Her
speed would take her some distance.
Senator Newlands. Within what distance could the Titanic come
to a stop, going at the rate of 21 knots an hour?
Mr. Pitman. It would be very hard to say, because we never tried.
Senator Newlands. Judging from the action of ships of that size,
or of large ships, within what mstance could a ship come to a stop ?
Mr. Pitman. I never tried it, sir. That would vary considerably
according to the state of the sea and the wind.
Senator Smith. I want to clear up a few things for the record before
vou step aside. Mr. Boxhall testified that the ship struck in latitude
41° 46', longitude 50° 14'.
Mr. Pitman. That is the position that he gave to the Carpatkia.
Senator Smith. How was that determined ?
Mr. PITBLA.N. From the star position, worked from half past 7.
Senator Smith. In any other manner ?
ilr. Pitman. No; that was worked out, I understand, from the star
position at half past 7.
Senator Smith. What was the sliip^s course when she struck ? I
think you testified to it, but I want it right at this place.
Mr. riTMAN. I am not sure whether it was south 84° west or south
86° west true.
Senator Smith. How long had she been running on that course ?
314 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Pitman. From 5.50 p. m.
Senator Smith. That evening ?
Mr. Pitman. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. Did this course show that she was approaching ice ?
Mr. Pitman. No. sir; there was no ice reported exactly on the track.
Senator Smith. I want to know if this course showed that she was
approaching ice.
Mr. Pitman. We should pass the ice northward.
Senator Smith, Do you know in what position, latitude and longi-,
tude, the Carpathia found the boats?
Mr. Pitman. Found the boats, sir ?
Senator Smith. Yes. sir.
Mr. Pitman. Somewhere near that position that Mr. Boxhall gave
you with reference to the ship sinking. That is the position the Car-
pathia steered for.
Senator Smith. 41° 46'?
Mr. Pitman. 41° 46'.
Senator Smith. And 50° 14' ?
Mr. Pitman. 50° 14'. That is the position the Carpathia steered
for.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee whether the
steam whistle was used Sunday night during your watch or not.
Mr. PrrMAN. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Could it have been used to detect the presence of
ice by echo ?
Mt. Pitman. I should not think so. I should not have any faith
in it.
Senator Smith. It was not used ?
Mr. Pitman. No; it was not.
Senator Smith. In order to complete the record, the ice reported
by the AmeriJca, by a wireless message, was in latitude 41° 27' longi-
tude 50° 08' ?
Mr. PriMAN. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. If the ship was properly located when she struck
as being in latitude 41° 46', must not the course have been steered
to the northward, in the direction of the reported iceberg ?
Mr. Pitman. No ; the position of that iceberg given by the AmeriJca
is to the southward of us.
Senator SMrrn. The course was laid to the southward of ice
reported by the Amerikaf was it not ?
Mr. Pitman. No; that position is 20 miles to the south of the
position we were.
Senator SMrrn. Would you have aUowed any time for the ice to
drift?
Mr. Pitman. I do not know anything about getting its position
from the AmeriJca,
Senator Smith. You never heard anything at all about their wire-
less warning and know nothing about the longitude or latitude in
which they reported icebergs ?
Mr. Pitman. The only one was the one that was put on the chart,
and I don't know whom that came from.
Senator Smith. I think that is all for the present, Officer.
Senator Fletcher. If there had been a vessel that night within 5
miles of the Titanic^ could not her whistle have been heard that
distance ?
if — -,. ^-,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 315
Mr. Pitman. No; but you could have heard her blowing off steam
at a far greater distance than you could hear the steam whistle. She
was blowing off steam for three-quarters of an hour, I think, and you
could hear that much farther than you could hear any steam whistle.
Senator Flecther. Then it would stand to reason that if there was
a ship or vessel of any kind within a distance of 5 miles it ought to
have heard the blowing off of the steam ?
Mr. Pitman. She could have heard that 10 miles that night.
Senator Smith. Just one more question. Was the ice that was
located on the chart south of your track ?
Mr. Pitman. North of our track.
Senator Smith. Now, Witness, I have not gotten entirely through
with you. I wish you would hold yourself subject to the desire of
the committee. I want to call Mr. Fleet for a few moments.
TESTIMONY OF ME. FEEDEEICK FLEET.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Fleet. Frederick Fleet.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Fleet. jSouthampton.
Senator Smith. England ?
Mr. Fleet. England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Fleet. Twentv-five next October.
Senator Smith. Wnat is your business ?
Mr. Fleet. Sailor; lookout man.
Senator Smith. How much experience have you had in that work ?
Mr. Fleet. About four years. I was four years on the Oceanic,
on the lookout.
Senator Smith. Four years as lookout on the Oceanic, of the White
Star Line ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that all the experience you have had ?
Mr. Fleet. Going to sea?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. Five or six years.
Senator Smith. Besides that?
Mr. Fi-EET. That is all; when I was in the training ship.
Sentaor Smith. Have you ever been lookout on any otner ship ?
Mr. Fleet. No.
Senator Smith. You were lookout on the Titanic, were you not?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. And sailed with the Titanic from Southampton, or
from Belfast ?
Mr. Fleet. I fetched her around from Belfast, on the lookout.
Senator Smith. And made this voyage from Southampton, to the
time of the collision — the accident?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to get on the record the place where you
were stationed in the performance of your duty.
Mr. Fleet. I was on the lookout.
Senator SMrrn. On the lookout ?
816 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Fleet. At the time of the collision.
Senator Smith. In the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. At the time of the collision?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you tell how high above the boat deck that is?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea.
Senator Smith. Can you tell how high above the crow's nest the
masthead is?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how far you were above the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. I am no hand at guessing.
Senator Smith. I do not want you to guess; but, if you know, I
would like to have you tell.
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea.
Senator Fletcher. You hardly mean that; you have some idea?
Mr. Fleet. No; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. You know whether it was a thousand feet or
two hundred ?
Senator Smith. Was there any other officer or employee stationed
at a higher point on the Titanic than you were ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were the lookout ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where are the eyes of the ship ?
Mr. Fleet. The eves of the ship ?
Senator Smith. Tne ship's eyes ?
Mr. Fleet. Forward.
Senator Smith. At the extreme bow ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And on the same level as the boat deck or below it ?
Mr. Fleet. Below it.
Senator Smith. How far below it ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Fleet, can you tell who was on the forward
part of the Titanic Sunday night when you took your position in the
crow's nest?
Mr. Fleet, There was nobody.
Senator Smith. Nobody?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was on the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. When I went up to reheve the others ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Officer Murdock?
Mr. Fleet. First officer.
Senator Smith. Who else ?
Mr. Fleet. I think it was the third officer.
Senator Smfph. What was his name ?
Mr. Fleet. The man that was here. Pitman.
Senator Smith. Mr. Pitman, the man who just left the stand?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know the officers on the bridge.
Senator Smith. You do not recall anv more of them ?
Mr. Fleet. No; I do not know whether he was there or not.
ti ^^^.^,^^ *9
TITANIC DISASTER. 317
Senator Smith. I do not want any confusion if I can help it. I
want to get this down right. Was the captain on the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not loiow, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not see him ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What time did you take your watcli Sunday night ?
Mr. Fleet. Ten o'clock.
Senator Newlands. Whom did you relieve ?
Mr. Fleet. Symons and Jewell.
Senator Smith. Who was with you on the watch ?
Mr. Fleet. Lee.
Senator Smith. What, if anything, did Symons and Jewell, or
either one, say to you when you relieved them of the watch %
Mr. Fleet. They told us to keep a sharp lookout for small ice.
Senator Smith. What did you say to them ?
Mr. Fleet. I said ^' All right.'*
Senator Smith. What did Lee say?
Mr. Fleet. He said the same.
Senator Smith. And you took your position in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you keep a sharp lookout for ice ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell what you did ?
Mr. Fleet. Well, I reported an iceberg right ahead, a black mass.
Senator Smith. When did you report that ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not tell you tne time.
Senator Smith. About what time ?
Mr. Fleet. Just after seven bells.
Senator Smith. How long after you had taken your place in the
crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. The watch was nearly over. I had done the best part
of the watch up in the nest.
Senator Smith. How long a watch did you have ?
Mr. Fleet. Two hours; but the time was going to be put back — that
watch.
Senator Smith. The time was to be set back ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Did that alter your time ?
Mr. Fleet. We were to get about 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Senator Smith. How long before the collision or accident did you
report ice ahead ?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea.
Senator Smith. About how long ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say, at the rate she was going.
Senator Smith. How fast was she going ?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea.
Senator Smith. Would you be willing to say that you reported the
presence of this iceberg an hour before the collision ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Forty-five minutes ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smffh. A half hour before ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Fifteen minutes before ?
318 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Ten minutes before ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How far away was this black mass when you first
saw it ?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you not give us some idea? Did it impress
you as serious ?
Mr. Fleet. I re])orted it as soon as ever I seen it.
Senator Smith. I want a complete record of it, you know. Give
me, as nearly as you can, how far away it was when you saw it. You
are accustomed to judging distances, are you not, from the crow's
nest? You are there to look ahead and sight objects, are you not?
Mr. Fleet. We are only up there to report anything we see.
Senator Smith. But you are expected to see and report anything
in the path of the sliip, are you not?
Mr. Fleet. Any tiling we see — a ship, or anything.
Senator Smith. -fVny tiling you sec ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes; anything we see.
Senator Smith. Whether it be a field of ice, a ^^growler,*' or an
iceberg, or any other substance ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you trained yourself so that you can see
objects as you approach them with fair accuracy?
Mr. Fleet. I (fo not know what you mean, sir.
Senator Smith. If there had been a black object ahead of this skip,
or a white one, a mile away, or 5 miles away, 50 feet above the
water or 150 feet above the water, would you nave been able to see
it, from your experience as a seaman ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you see these things in the path of the ship,
you report them?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you report when you saw this black mass
Sunday night?
Mr. Fleet. I reported an iceberg right ahead.
Senator Smith. To whom did you report that?
Mr. Fleet. I struck three bells first. Then I went straight to
the telephone and rang them up on the bridge.
Senator Smith. You struck three bells and went to the telephone
and rang them up on the bridge?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you get anyone on the bridge?
Mr. Fleet. I got an answer straight awav — what did I see, or
'^ What did you see?"
Senator Smith. Did the person who was talking to you tell you
who he was i
Mr. Fleet. No. He just asked me what did I see. I told him an
iceberg right ahead.
Senator Smith. What did he say then ?
Mr. Fleet. He said: *'Thankyou."
Senator Smith. Do you know to whom you were talking?
Mr. Fleet. No; I do not know who it was.
Senator Smith. What was the object in sending the three beUs?
i t . i f
TITANIC DISASTER. 319
Afr. Fleet. That denotes an iceberg right ahead.
Senator Smith It denotes danger ?
Mr. Fleet. No; it just tells them on the bridge that there is
something about.
Senator Smith. You took both precautions; you gave the three
bells, and then you went and telephoned to the bridge ?
Mr. Flbbt. I es, sir.
Senator Smith. Where did you have to go to telephone?
Mr. Fleet. The telephone is in the nest.
Senator Smith. The telephone is right in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Flbbt. Yes.
Senator Smith. You turned and communicated with the bridge
from the nest ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get a prompt response ?
Mr. Fleet. I did.
Senator Smith. And you made the statement that you have
indicated ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Fleet. After I rang them up ?
Senator Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fleet. I kept staring ahead a^ain.
Senator Smith. You remained in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. I remained in the crow's nest until I got reUef.
Senator Smith. And Lee remained in the nest ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smtth. How long did-vou stay there ?
Mr. Fleet. About a quarter of an hour to 20 minutes after.
S^iator Smith. After what ?
Mr. Fleet. After the accident.
Senator Smith. And then did you leave this place ?
Mr . Fleet. We got relieved by the other two men.
Senator Smith. The other two men came?
i'xr. Fleet. Yes.
S»enator Smith. Did they go up ?
'Air. Fleet. They came up in the nest.
Senator Smith. And you got down ?
Mr. Fleet. We got clown; yes.
• Senator Smith. Can you not indicate, in any way, the length of
ti'me that elapsed between the time that you first gave this intorma-
ti on by telepnone and by bell to the bridge oilicer and the time the
J^.oat struck the iceberg ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. You can not say ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Seuator Smith. You can not say whether it was five minutes or an
hour?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say, sir.
Seoator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee whether you
apprehended danger when you sounded these signals and telephoned;
wiether you thought there was danger ?
40475— pt 4—12 5
t< ff
320 TITANIC DISASTEE.
Mr. Fleet. No; no, sir. That is all we have to do up in the nest ;
to ring the bell, and if there is any danger ring them up on the
telephone.
Senator Smith. The fact that you did ring thetn up on the telephone
indicated that you thought there was danger ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You thought there was danger?
Mr. Fleet. Well, it was so close to us. That is why I rang them up ,
Senator Smith. How large an object was this when you first saw it 1
Mr. Fleet. It was not very large when I first saw it.
Senator Smith. How large was it ?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea of distances or spaces.
Senator Smith. Was it the size of an ordinary house ? Was it as
large as this room appears to be ?
Mr. Fleet. No; no. It did not appear very large at all.
Senator Smith. Was it as large as the table at which I am sitting i
Mr. Fleet. It would be as large as those two tables put together,
when I saw it at first.
Senator Smith. When you first saw it, it appeared about as large
as these two tables put together ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did it appear to get larger. after you first saw it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes; it kept getting larger as we were getting nearer it.
Senator Smith. As it was coming toward you an(ry6u were going
toward it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. How large did it get to be, finally when it struck the
ship?
Mr. Fleet. When we were alongside, it was a little bit higher than
the forecastle head.
Senator Smfth. The forecastle head is how high above t'he water
line ?
Mr. Fleet. Fifty feet, I should say.
Senator Smith. About 50 feet ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Smith. So that this black mass, when it finally struck the
boat, turned out to be about 50 feet above the water?
Mr. Fleet. About 50 or 60. [
Senator Smith. Fifty or sixty feet above the water ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes. »
Senator Smith. And when you first saw it it looked no larger t han
these two tables ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the ship was stopped ai jtor
you gave that telephone signal ?
Mr. Fleet. No, no; she did not stop at all. She did not stop nnr.il
she passed the iceberg.
Senator Smith. She did not stop until she passed the iceberg? ^
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether her engines were reversed ^
Mr. Fleet. Well, she started to go to port while I was at tlu'|
telephone.
Senator Smith. She started to go to port?
Mr. Fleet. Yos; the wheel was put to starboard.
ii f9
TITANIO DISASTER. 321
Senator Smith. How do vou know that ?
Mr. Fleet. My mate saw it and told me. He told me he could
see the bow coming around.
Senator Smith. They swung the ship's bow away from the object ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes; because we were making straight for it.
Senator Smith. But you saw the couree altered ? And the ice-
berg^ struck the ship at what point ?
Mr. Fleet. On trie starboard bow, just before the foremast.
vSenator Smith. How far would that be from the bow's end ?
Mr. Fleet. From the stem ?
Senator Smith. From the stem.
Mr. Fleet. About 20 feet.
Senator Smith. About 20 feet back from the stem ?
Mr. Fleet. From the stem to where she hit.
Senator Smith. When she struck this obstacle, or this black mass,
was there much of a jar to the ship ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any ?
Mr. Fleet. Just a slight grinding noise.
Senator Smith. Not sufficient to disturb you in your position in the
crow's nest?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did it alarm you seriously when it struck ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; I thought it was a narrow shave.
Senator Smith. You thought it was a narrow shave ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any of this ice break onto the decks ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes; some on the forecastle light and some on the
weather deck.
Senator Smith. How much ?
Mr. Fleet. Not much; only where she rubbed up against it.
Senator Smith. Did Lee and you talk over this black object that
you saw ?
Mr. Fleet. Only up in the nest.
Senator Smith. What did you say about it ? What did he say
about it to you or what did you say about it to him ?
Mr. Fleet. Before I reported, I said, '^ There is ice ahead," and
then I put my hand over to the bell and rang it three times, and then
I went to the phone.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Mr. Fleet. He said nothing much. He just started looking. He
was looking ahead while I was at the phone and he seen the ship go
to port.
Senator Smith. Did Lee survive this wreck, or was he drowned ?
Mr. Fleet. He is one that survived it.
Senator Smith. You can not recollect just what he said to you when
she struck ?
Mr.* Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Nor when you first sighted this black mass ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who sighted the black mass first; you or Lee?
Mr. Fleet. I did. I say I did, but I tliink he was just as soon
as me.
Senator Smith. Were you both looking ahead ?
<t ^ if
322 TITANIC DISASTEE,
Mr. Fleet. We were looking all over the place^ all around.
Senator Smith. All over the sea %
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you been especially directed to look carefully 1
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. By whom ?
Mr. Fleet. By the mates we relieved; by the other two lookout
men.
Senator Smith. Were you told to do so by Officer Murdock ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir. We got our order from Mr. LightoUer, and
passed it on to the lookouts as they get relieved.
Senator Smith. Mr. LightoUer gave the order to your mates ?
Mr. Fleet. And they passed it on to us.
Senator Smith. Is that usual ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; as we get relieved we pass it on to the other
, men.
Senator Smith. If any orders come in the meantime to you, you
pass them on ?
Mr. Fleet. To the next two lookout men.
Senator Smith. Do you know what time it was when you saw that
iceberg ?
Mr. Fleet. I have no idea, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you carry a watch ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You made no record of it in any way ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You went to the lookout at 10 o'clock?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Whom did you relieve ?
Mr. Fleet. Symons and Jewell.
Senator Smith. Did they tell you they had seen icebergs ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; they only gave us the orders to look out for
them.
Senator Smith. But they did not say they had seen any?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you four men the only men that occupied this
position in the boat ?
Mr. Fleet. There were six.
Senator Smith. Who were the other two ?
Mr. Fleet. Hogg and Evans.
Senator Smith. Did they survive the wreck ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. All of the lookouts survived ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where do those last two men live ? Do you know ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; there is one here.
Senator Smith. Which one ?
Mr. Fleet. Hogg and Symons are here besides me. The other
three have gone home.
Senator Smith. Lee ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know where Lee is. He got detained in New
York.
Senator Smith. What is the watch ? It is two hours on and
Mr. Fleet. And four hours off.
1 1 .«— . ^-^^ > f
TITANIC DISASTER. 828
Senator Smith. Who was on watch from 8 to 10 that night m the
crow's nest or lookout ?
Mr. Fleet. Symons and Jewell.
Senator Smith. Who was on watch from 6 to 8 ?
Mr. Fleet. Hogg and Evans.
wSenator Smith. Did either of these mates of yours say anything
about having seen icebergs Sunday or Sunday evening ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Your last watch before 10 o'clock was from 4 to
0. was it not?
Mr. Fleet. From four to six; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And from four to six did you see any icebergs ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Up there in the crow's nest, are there any indica-
tions of the presence of ice off the Grand Banks of Newfoundland t
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Does the weather change on the Newfoundland
Banks ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir. It is all open in the nest. sir.
Senator Smith. Was that a cold night — Sunaay ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What protection against the weather have you
in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. We have nothing ahead, and there are just two bits of
screen behind us.
Senator Smith. Canvas ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And nothing ahead ?
Mr. Fleet. Nothing in front.
Senator Smith. So vour view is unobstructed I
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you given glasses of any kind ?
Mr. Fleet. We had none this time. We had nothing at all, only
our own eyes, to look out.
Senator SMrra. On the Oceanic you had glasses, had you not ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Each of you ?
Mr. Fleet. There is one pair in the nest.
Senator Smith. One pair of glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What kind of glasses are they; strong, powerful
^laj^ses ?
Mr. Fleet. No, not always, sir.
Senator Smith. What were those on the Oceanic?
Mr. Fleet. Very poor; you could see about from here to that
looking-glass [indicating].
Senator Smith. Did you make any request for glasses on the
Titanicf
Mr. Fleet. We asked them in Southampton, and they said there
was none for us.
Senator Smith. Whom did you ask ?
Mr. Fleet. They said there was none intended for us.
Senator Smith. Whom did you ask ?
Mr. Fleet. We asked Mr. LightoUer, the second officer.
a f9
324 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. Did you make the request yourself ?
Mr. Fleet. No; the station lookout men (fid, Hogg and Evans.
Senator Smith. How do you know they made it ?
Mr. Fleet. Because they told us.
Senator Smith. Where did they tell you; after leaving South-
ampton ?
Mr. Fleet. In Southampton, and afterwards.
Senator Smith. You expected glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. We had a pair from Belfast to Southampton.
Senator Smith. You had a pair of glasses from Belfast to South-
ampton ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; but none from Southampton to New York.
Senator Smith. Where did those go that you had from Belfast to
Southampton ?
Mr. Fleet. We do not know that. We only know we never got a
pair.
Senator Smith. And you had none from Southampton to the place
of this accident ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Suppose you had had glasses such as you had on
the Oceanic, or such as you had between Belfast and Southampton,
could you have seen this black object a ^eater distance ?
Mr. Fleet. We could have seen it a bit sooner.
Senator Smith. How much sooner ?
Mr. Fleet. Well, enough to get out of the way.
Senator Smith. Did you and your mates discuss with one another
the fact that you had no glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. We discussed it all together, between us.
Senator Smith. Did you express surprise or regret that you had
none?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know what you mean.
Senator Smith. Were you disappointed that you had no glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Do you know whether the officer on the bridge had
glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him using them 1
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was on the bow of that boat, if anyone, Sun-
day evening, forward of the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. There was nobody forward of it.
Senator Smith. Nobody forward of the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; we were the only ones that were forward — up
in the nest.
Senator Smith. And there was no one else ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What time did you have your supper that night;
Sunday night ?
Mr. Fleet. What ? Tea ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. Five o^clock.
Senator Smith. In the mess ?
Mr. Fleet. In the mess, sir.
<t ^»«, ,,^_ 9}
TITANIC DISASTER. 326
Senator Smith. You were not in the habit of eating your meals in
the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. Oh, no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any other business in the crow's nest,
you and your mates, except to keep a sharp lookout ahead ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And that was your business ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And has been your business how long ?
iSib, Fleet. For the last four years and a half. I went straight
from the Oceanic to the Titanic,
Senator Smith. What wages do you receive ?
Mr. Fleet. Five pounds a month, and five shillings lookout
money.
Senator Smith. What is the lookout money for ?
Mr. Fleet. It is what we get from the company. It has nothing
to do with the pay. It is just £5 'a month, and then 5 shilUngs for
the lookout.
Senator Smith. That lookout money means for your special service ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that paid to you at the end of each month ?
Mr. Fleet. Each voyage.
Senator Smith. Did all of the lookout men on the Titanic get the
same pay ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you a married or a single man ?
Mr. Fleet. Single.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee what you did after you left the
crow's nest that night.
Mr. Fleet. I went down below and I found there was nobodv
down there, and the quartermaster come down and said we were all
wanted on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did you go up to the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. I went up on the ooat deck.
Senator Smith. What did they say to you up there ?
Mr. Fleet. I did not see anyone there; I seen them all at the
boats, getting them ready and putting them out.
Senator Smith. The lifeboats ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Fleet. I helped to get the port boat out.
Senator Smith. The fourth one ?
Mr. Fleet. The port-side lifeboat. I got No. 6 out.
Senator Smith. How many of those boats did you help lower ?
Mr. Fleet. I lowered No. 6 to the rail.
Senator Smith. How many sailors or men of the crew were put
into No. 6 ?
Mr. Fleet. There was me and one quartermaster.
Senator Smith. Yourself and one quartermaster ?
Mr. Fleet, Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that all of the crew or officers that were in
that boat ?
Mr. Fleet. That is all. No officers; just us two.
Senator Smith. You and the quartermaster ?
326 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Fleet. Me and Quartermaster Hichens.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; he is staying in New York.
Senator Smith. After lowering the lifeboat to the boat deck, did
he get in first or you ?
Mr. Fleet. I was told by Mr. Lightoller to get in the boat and
help the women in.
oenator Smith. You got in by direction of the second officer ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And helped the women in ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men were in that boat ?
Mr. Fleet. Five. •
Senator Smith. Who were they?
Mr. Fleet. Three men passengers and two of the crew.
Senator Smith. Who were the passengers ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know. Tnere was one steerage and two first.
Senator Smith. You do not know who they were ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen them since ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many women or children were there in the
boat ?
Mr. Fleet. There was no children. They were all women. I
could not tell how many because I did not count them.
Senator Smith. Was the boat full ?
Mr. Fleet. It was full up, but it could have took a few more
forward, where I was.
Senator Smith. How many do you think you had in it all together ?
Mr. Fleet. About 30.
Senator Smith. Was it the regular lifeboat, the large size?
Mr. Fleet. One of the wooden lifeboats.
Senator SmiTH. You got about 30 people in there, and then it was
lowered to the water ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And what did you do then ?
Mr. Fleet. We got the oars and pulled for the light that was on the
port bow.
Senator Smith. Did you see it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.*^
Senator Smith. What happened there ?
Mr. Fleet. We could not get up to it.
Senator Smith. Why not ?
Mr. Fleet. There were only two of us pulhng.
Senator Smith. You could not get up to it ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How close could you get to it ?
Mr. Fleet. She was getting away off.
Senator Smith. At that time were there any persons in the water ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any cries of distress ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When you found you could not get up to it, what
did you do ?
(( ^. ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 327
Mr. Fleet. We kept on pulling; that is all.
Senator Smith. In that direction; away from the boat ?
Mr. Fleet. Away from the boat.
Senator Smith. Away from tYiQ Titanicf
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir/
Senator Smith. Did you keep right on pulling away ?
Mr. Fleet. We kept on pulhne:.
Senator Shith. And did not stop?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Toward what did you pull ?
Mr. Fleet. We thought we could get up to this light, but we
could not. It seemed to be getting away from us all the time.
Senator SMrrn. What light was it ?
Mr. Fleet. It was a light on the port bow. She seemed to be
abreast of us.
Senator Smith. Are you now talking of the Titanic f
Mr. Fleet. Abreast of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. From the time you started to pull away from the
Titanic' 8 side, did anyone try to get into your boat ?
Mr« Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone try to get out of it ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone step into your boat, man or woman,
and then step out of it ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir. There was just one passenger, when we was
lowering away, come in the boat.
Senator Smith. Who was that ?
Mr. Fleet. One of the men passengers.
Senator SMrrn. Who was it; do you know?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know who he was, sir.
Senator Smith. When you were lowering away ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far had you gotten below the boat deck ?
Mr. Fleet. It was not very far; just about the length of the table
down. He got over the Ufe lanyard and swung in and come down
the fall.
Senator Smith. You took no other persons aboard this lifeboat
from that time ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And landed all of your occupants of that boat
alongside of the Carpatkiaf
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During the time you were waiting for the Car-
pathiaj were you rowing the boat away or lying on your oars'^
Mr. Fleet. We puUed until we were clear of the suction of the
Titanic.
Senator Smith. Pulled away from the Titanic?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Assuming there would be suction when she went
down?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; we were too far off.
Senator Smith. Did you see her go down ?
328 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Why not?
Mr. Fleet. The Ughts were out, and we were too far away.
Senator Smith. You could not see her when she disappeared?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you picked up by the Carpathian near
the Titanic?
Mr. Fleet. Wlien we sighted the lights of the Carpaihia, we pulled
toward her again.
Senator Smith. And were picked up by her?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; right alongside.
Senator Smith, After getting alonside the Carpathia you did not
take vour lifeboat back to the scene of the wreck s
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You got aboard the Carpathia f
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there lights of any other vessels in sight whea
you came down from the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. There was no lights at all when we was up in the crow's
nest. This is after we was down and on the boats; then I seen the
light.
Senator Smith. Where did you see it?
Mr. Fleet. On the port bow. The other lookout reported it.
Senator Smith. How far ahead?
Mr. Fleet. It was not ahead ; it was on the bow, about four points.
Senator Smith. I am not speaking of that. I wanted to know
whether you saw ahead, while you were on the watch, on the lookout,
Sunday night, after the collision occurred or before, any lights of any
other ship.
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You saw no hghts at all ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rockets fired from the deck of the
Titanicf
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; when we were in the boat and when we were
on the deck before I went in the boat.
Senator Smith. But you saw no lights ahead that indicated the
presence of another vessel ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or while you were in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Nor any other object except the one you have
described ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any other icebergs, field ice, or growlers
while you were in the crow's nest Sunday or Sunday night?
Mr. Fleet. Only the one I reported nght ahead.
Senator Smith. Only that one ?
Mr. Fleet. That is all.
Senator Smith. I think that is all at this time, and if I want you
again I will send you word. Will you just remain subject to the
committee's call?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
i< ^--..^^^^ n
TITANIC DISASTER. 329
Senator Newlands. I want to ask just one question. Can you see
with glasses at night as well as during the day ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What color were the Ughts toward which you were
pulling when you were on the lifeboat ?
Mr. Fleet. A bright light.
Senator Smith. White
Mr. Fleet (interrupting). White; ves.
Senator Smith. Wliite, green, or what ?
Mr. Fleet. A white light.
Senator Smith. How many were there ?
Mr. Fleet. One.
Senator Smith. I wish you would return at half past 3, Mr. Fleet,
and I would like also to have Maj. Peuchen present at 3.30 as well.
We will take a recess at this time until half past 3.
Thereupon, at 2.25 p. m., the committee took a recess until 3.30 p. m.
AFTEBNOON SESSION.
The subcommittee reconvened at 3.55 o'clock p. m., Senator
William Alden Smith (chairman), presiding.
Senator Smith. Mr. Fleet, I will not have you resume the stand
immediately. I want to put Maj. Peuchen on.
TESTIMONT OF MAJ. ABTHUR G. PEUCHEN.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Will you kindly give the reporter your full name ?
Maj. Peuchen. Arthur Godfrey Peuchen.
Senator Smith. Where do vou reside ?
Maj. Peuchen. Toronto, Canada.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Maj. Peuchen. Fifty- three.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Maj. Peuchen. Manufacturer of chemicals.
Senator Smith. Do you hold any ofhcial rank in the military or civic
afTairs of Great Britain ?
Maj. Peuchen. I am a major in the Canadian militia.
Senator Smith. Were you aboard the vessel Titanic when it sailed
from Southampton ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was.
Senator Smith. Wlien did you board the vessel ?
Maj. Peuchen. Twenty minutes before sailing, I should say; half
an hour.
Senator Smith. What time did she sail ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think a Uttle after 12; a little after noon.
Senator Smith. What day of the week ?
Maj. Peuchen. On Wednesday, the 10th.
Senator Smith. Of April 1
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Did you make the trip from Belfast Lough to
Southampton ?
330 TITANIC DISASTER.
Maj. Peuchen. No; oh, no.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen this ship before ?
Maj. Peuchen. Never.
Senator Smith. Were you accompanied by anyone ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; several gentlemen friends.
Senator Smith. Who ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mr. Markleham Molson, a codirector of mine; was
my personal friend on the trip ; Mr. Allison and Mrs. Allison.
Senator Smith. Where were they from ?
Maj. Peuchen. Montreal.
Senator Smith. All were Canadians f
Maj. Peuchen. Canadians; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your friends survive ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; they were all lost.
Senator Smith. Where were you located on the vessel ? Where
were your quarters and where were your friends located ?
Mai. Peuchen. I was located on C deck, stateroom 104, and they
were located on A deck, I think A-2. I forget Mr. Allison's number,
but most of my friends were on A deck.
Senator Smith. That was the deck just above yours ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; two above.
Senator Smith. Two above; yes. And A deck was just below the
boat deck ?
Maj. Peuchen. Just below.
Senator Smith. The upper deck 1
Maj. Peuchen. Just below the bridge, I should tliink; just below
the upper deck. I guess you are right, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the passengers that were on C
deck?
Maj. Peuchen. No, I can not say that I do.
Senator Smith. Do you know any other passengers on A deck than
those you have named.?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, several.
Senator Smith. Who ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mr. Hugo Ross.
Senator Smith. Give his address, if you can.
Maj. Peuchen. Mr. Hugo Ross, of Winnipeg; Mr. Beatty, of Win-
nipeg; Mr. McC^affrey, of Vancouver.
Senator Smith. Where were they located ?
Maj. Peuchen. On A deck.
Senator Smith. Do you know the rooms ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mr. Hugo Ross, who was my friend, I think was
in A-12, and the others were in A-8, and numbers similar to that
close by.
Senator Smith. Did they survive ?
Maj. Peuchen. No.
Senator Smith. Did you know any other passengei*s on the Titanic
on this voyage from Southampton or from Queenstown ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mr. Charles M. Hays, of Montreal.
Senator Smith. Who was he ?
Maj. Peuchen. He is the president and general manager of the
Grand Trunk Railroad. Mr. Davidson, his son-in-law, of Montreal;
Mr. Fortune and his son, of Winnipeg.
Senator Smith. Do you know where they were located on the ship ?
tt ^. f}
TITANIC DISASTER. 331
Maj. Peuchen. No; I do not, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see them aboard ship ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; talked to them all.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether they survived ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; they were all lost, sir.
Senator Smith. If I understood you correctlv, you do not know
on which deck Mr. Hays or the other persons referred to were ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; outside of I know where Mr. Beatty and Mr.
McCaffery were.
Senator Smith. Where were they ?
Maj. Peuchen. They were in A, as I have already described. The
others, I did not know where they were.
Senator Smith. Did you know any other passengers ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, 1 met a number of other passengers.
Senator Smith. Who?
Maj. Peuchen. I met Mrs. Gibson and Miss Gibson, of New York,
and Mr. Foreman, of New York. These people I did not know as
well. The others I knew before coming on the boat.
Senator Smith. If you can recall the names of any others you met,
I wish you would do so.
Maj. Peuchen. I met a number that were saved, afterwards on
the Carpathia — on the other boat.
Senator Smith. Did you meet aboard ship any of the others who
were lost ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not think I met many more. Outside of my
own circle of friends, which were about 10 — we were only three days
out — I do not remember meeting very many more. I talked to a
number, but not to meet them.
Senator Smith. Do you recall having seen a list of the passengers ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. After you sailed from Southampton ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; 1 looked over the list.
Senator Smith. Did jrou retain the hst ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; I did not. There were only about one or
two retained bv the survivors.
Senator Smith. Do you know who has one ?
Maj. Peuchen. I saw them copying one in the smoking room of the
Carpathia; only one, I think.
Senator Smfth. Who had it?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not remember. It was a young man, a fair
young man, who was in the smoking room.
Senator Smith. You do not remember his name ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not remember; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen him since ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; not since leaving the boat.
Senator Smith. Did this list of passengers show the location of the
passengers on the boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; only the names.
Senator Smith. Just the names ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were thev taken in alphabetical order?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; in alphabetical order.
Senator Smith. Did you ask this person on the CarpaiMa to let
vou have a list of them ?
332 TITANIC DISASTER.
Maj. Peuchen. No; I did not sir. Several were making copies of
them.
Senator Smith. Major^ I wish you would tell the committee in
your own way, beginning from the time you boarded the ship, the
Titanic, at Southampton, the condition of the weather on the voyage;
whether or not any accident occurred before the collision where the
boat was lost; whether there was any fire aboard the ship between
Southampton and the place of the catastrophe; whether you saw
any drill of officers or men; and as nearly as you can, in your own
way, what took place from the time the Titanic sailed. You may
Eroceed in your own way and take your own time, and you will not
e interrupted until you finish.
Maj. Peuchen. Tte day was a fine day. Shortly after leaving our
pier our wash or suction caused some trouble at tHe hea'd of the pier
that we were going around, at which there were two or three boats
of the same company as our boat. There was considerable excite-
ment on those boats on account of the snapping of their mooring
lines, but there was no excitement on ours, tne Titanic, There was
also excitement on the wharves when the larger ship commenced to
snap one or two of her moorings. But I do not think there was any
accident.
The smaller boat, I think, was the New York. She drifted away, not
being under steam and having no control of herself. The result was
that she was helpless. At first she drifeted to our stern, and then
afterwards she drifted along and got very near our bows. I think wo
stopped our boat and we were simply standing still. They got a tug
or two to take hold of the New York and they moved her out of harm's
way. I should think we were delayed probably three-quarters of an
hour by this trouble. Then we moved out of the harbor.
The weather up to the time of Sunday was pleasant. There was
very little wind ; it was quite calm. Everything seemed to be ruiuiing
very smoothly on the steamer, and there was nothing that occurretT
There was no mention of fire in any way. In fact, it was a very
pleasant voyage up to Sunday evening. We were all pleased with the
way the new steamer was progressing, and we had hopes of arriving
in New York quite early on Wednesday morning.
Do you wish me to go on further ?
Senator Smith. Go right along. I wish you to complete vour
statement, in your own way, up to the time you went on board the
Carpathia.
Maj. Peuchen. It would be a rather long story.
Senator Smith. Well, I want it in the record, Major.
Maj. Peuchen. Sunclay evening I dined with mv friends. Marklo-
ham Molson, Mr. Allison, and Mrs. Allison; and tneir daughter was
there for a short time. The dinner was an exceptionally good dinner.
It seemed to be a better bill of fare than usual, although they are all
good. After dinner my friends and I went to the sitting-out room
and had some coffee. I left the friends I had dined with about
9 o'clock, I think, or a little later. I then went up to the smoking
room and joined Mr. Beatty, Mr. McCaffery, and another English
gentleman who was going to Canada. We sat chatting and smoKing
there until probably 20 minutes after 11, or it may have been a little
later than tnat. I then bid them good night and went to my room.
I probably stopped, going down, but I had only reached my room and
€( ».«.«,*.. 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 333
was starting to undress when I felt as though a heavy wave had
struck our ship. She quivered under it somewhat, li there had
been a sea running I would simply have thought it was an unusual
wave which had struck the boat; but knowing that it was a calm
night and that it was an unusual thing to occur on a calm night, I
immediately put my overcoat on and went up on deck. As I started
to go througn the grand stairway I met a niend, who said, *^Why,
we nave struck an iceberg.''
Senator Smith. Give his name, if you can.
Mai. Peuchen. I can not remember his name. He was simply a
casual acQuaintance I had met. He said. "If you will go up on the
upper deck/' or **If you will go up on A deck, you will see tne ice on
tne fore part of the ship." So I did so. I went up there. I suppose
the ice had fallen inside the rail, probably 4 to 4^ feet. It looked
like shell ice, soft ice. But you could see it guite plainly along the
bow of the boat. I stood on deck for a few minutes, talking to other
friends, and then I went to see mv friend, Mr. Hugo Ross, to tell him
that it was not serious; that we nad only struck an iceberg. I also
called on Mr. Molson at his room, but he was out. I afterwards saw
Mr. Molson on deck and we chatted over the matter, and I suppose
15 minutes after that I met Mr. Hays, his son-in-law, and I said to
him, '*Mr. Hays, have you seen the ice?" He said, "No." I said,
''If you care tJo see it I will take you up on the deck and show it to
you." So we proceeded from probably C deck to A deck and along
forward, and I showed Mr. Hays the ice forward. I happened to
look and noticed the boat was listing, probably half an riour after
my first visit to the upper deck. I said to Mr. Hays, *^Why, she is
listing; she should not do that, the water is perfectly calm, and the
boat has stopped." I felt that looked rather serious. He said, *^ Oh,
I don't know; you can not sink this boat." He had a good deal of
confidence. He said, *'No matter what we have struck, she is good
for 8 or 10 hours."
I hardly got back in the grand staircase — I probably waited around
there 10 minutes more — when I saw the ladies anci gentlemen all
coming in off of the deck looking very serious, and I caught up to Mi*.
Beatty, and I said, *' What is the matter ? " He said, " Why the order
is for life belts and boats." I could not believe it at first, it seemed
so sudden. I said, ''Will you tell Mr. Ross?"
He said, "Yes; I will go and see Mr. Ross." I then went to my
cabin and changed as quickly as I could from evening dress to heavy
clothes. As soon as I got my overcoat on I got my liie preserver and
I came out of my cabin.
In the hallway I met a ereat many people, ladies and gentlemen,
with their life belts on, and the ladies were crying, principally, most
of them. It was a very serious sight, and I commencea to realize
how serious matters were. I then proceeded up to the boat deck.
and I saw that they had cleared away
Senator Smith (mterposing). Pardon me one moment. Were you
still on C deck?
Major Peuchen. I was on C deck when I came out and saw the
people standing in the corridor near the grand stairway. I then pro-
ceeaed upstairs to the boat deck, which is the deck above A.
I saw the boats were all ready for action; that is, the covers had
been taken off of them, and the ropes cleared, ready to lower. This
se ^ 9 9
334 TITANIC DISASTER.
was on the port side. I was standing near by the second officer, and
the captain was standing there as well, at that time. The captain
said — 1 do ^lot know whether it was the captain or the second officer
said — ^'We will have to get these masts out of these boats, and also
the sail.'' He said, ''You might give us a hand," and I jumped in the
boat, and we got a knife and cut the lashings of the mast, which is a
very heavy mast, and also the sail, and moved it out of the boat, saying
it would not be required. Then there was a cry, as soon as that part
was done, that they were ready to put the women in; so the women
came forward one by one. A great many women came with their
husbands.
Senator Smith. Just a second, before you come to that. What
number boat did you get into ?
Maj. Peuchen. I got into — I think it was — the first large boat
forward on the port side, and I imagine, from the way they number
those boats, the emergency boat is 2, and the first large one is 4,
and the next one is 6. I am not sure about that.
Senator Smith. Beginning to count from the forward end?
Maj. Peuchen. From the forward end: from the bow.
Senator Smith. On the port side ?
Maj. Peuchen. On the port side. This was the largest lifeboat —
the first largo lifeboat toward the bow on the port side. They
would onlv allow women in that boat, and the men had to stand
back.
Senator Smith. Was there any order to that effect given ?
Maj. Peuchen. That was the order. The second officer stood
there and he carried out that to the limit. He allowed no men
except the sailors, who were manning the boat, but there were no
passengers that I saw got into that boat.
Senator Smith. How many sailors \
Maj. Peuchen. I am not sure, but I imagine there were about
four. As far as my memory serves me, there were about four. I
was busy helping and assisting to get the ladies in. After a reason-
able complement of ladies had got aboard, she was lowered, but I
did not see one single passenger get in that first boat.
Senator Fletcher. You mean male passenger.
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; male passenger.
Senator Smith. Did you see any attempt to get in %
Maj. Peuchen. No; 1 never saw such order. It was perfect order.
The discipline was splendid. The oiiicers were carrying out their
duty and I think the passengers behaved splendidly. I did not see a
cowardly act by any man.
Senator Smith. Was the boat safely lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. Tlie boat was loaded, but I think they could have
taken more in this boat. They took, however, all the ladies that
offered to get in at that point.
Senator SMrrn. Was the boat safely lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, very; the boat was safely lowered.
Senator Smith. Who was in it that you know of ?
Maj. Peuchen. I should say about — I do not know — I imagine
about 26 or 27. There was room for more.
Then, as soon as that boat was lowered, we turned our attention
to the next.
tf -^-..^.^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 885
I might say I was rather surprised that the sailors were not at their
stations, as 1 have seen fire driu very often on steamers where they all
stand at attention, so many men at the bow and stern of these life-
boats. They seemed to be short of sailors around the lifeboats that
were being lowered at this particular point. I do not know what was
taking place in other parts of the steamer.
There was one act, sir, I would like to mention a Uttle ahead of my
story. When I came on deck first, on this upper deck, there were, it
seems to me, about 100 stokers came up with tneir dunnage bags, and
they seemed to crowd this whole deck in front of the boats. One of
the officers — I do not know which one, but a very powerful one —
came along and drove these men right off that deck. It was a
splendid act.
Senator Smith. Off the boat deck ?
Maj. Peuchen. Off the boat deck. He drove them, every man,
like a lot of sheep, right off the deck.
Senator Smith, miere did they go ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know. He drove them right ahead of
him, and they disappeared. I do not know where they went, but it
was a splendid act. They did not put up any resistance. I admired
him for it.
I had finished with the lowering of the first boat from the port side.
We then proceeded to boat No. 2 or No. 4 or No. 6; I do not know
which it is called.
Senator Smith. You had stepped into the boat to assist in lower-
ing it ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; and then got out of it again.
Senator Smith. And you stepped out of it ?
Maj. Peuchen. I only got into the boat to assist in taking out the
mast and the sail.
Senator Smith. I understand. Then you got out again ?
Maj. Peuchen. Then I got out again, and I assisted in putting the
ladies into the boat. We then went to the next boat and we did the
same thing — got the mast and the sail out of that. There was a
ouartermaster in the boat, and one sailor, and we commenced to put
tne ladies in that boat. After that boat had got a full complement
of ladies, there were no more ladies to get in, or if there were any other
ladies to get in they did not wish to do so, because we were calling out
for them — that is, speaking of the port side — but some woula not
leave their husbands.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Maj. Peuchen. I only saw one or two stand by who would not get
in. Whether they afterwards left them I can not say, but I saw one
or two women refuse to get in on that accoimt.
Senator Smith. Did you see any woman get in and then get out
because her husband was not Avith her ?
Mai. Peuchen. No, I do not think I did. I saw one lady where
they had to sort of pull her away from her husband, he insisting upon
hergoing to the boat and she did not want to go.
This boat was then lowered down, and when it got
Senator Smith (interposing). Pardon me a moment. How many
were put into this second boat ?
40475— pt 4—12 fi
386 TITANIC DISASTER.
Maj. Peuchen. I did not know at the time of the lowering, but as
I happened to be a passenger later on^ they were counted and there
were exactlj^ 20 women, 1 quartermaster, 1 sailor, and 1 stowaway
that made his appearance after we had been out about an hour.
Senator Smith. Twenty-three aJl together ?
Maj. Peuchen. Twenty- three all together; before I was a pas-
senger.
After that the boat was lowered down some distance, I should
imagine probably parallel with C deck, when the quartermaster called
up to the officer and said, '*I can not manage this boat with only one
seaman."
Senator Smith. Where was this call from ?
Maj. Peuchen. As the boat was going down, I should think about
the third deck. So he made this call for assistance, and the second
officer leaned over and saw he was quite right in his statement, that
he had only one man in the boat, so they said, *' We will have to have
some more seamen here,'' and I did not think they were just at hand,
or they may have been getting the next boat ready. However, I was
standing by the officer, and I said, **Can I be of any assistance ? I am
a yachtsman, and can handle a boat with an average man.'' He said,
■^^ Why, yes. I will order you to the boat in preference to a sailor."
Senator Smith. Pardon me right there. Who was this man then
in the boat?
Maj. Peuchen. He was one of the quartermasters. The captain
was standing still by him at that time, and I think, although the officer
ordered me to the boat, the captain said, **You had better go down
below and break a window and get in through a window, into the boat."
Senator Smith. The captain said that ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. That was his suggestion; and I said I did
not think it was feasible, and I said I could get in the boat if I could
get hold of a rope. However, we got hold of a loose rope in some way
that was han^ng from the davit, near the block anyway, and by get-
ting hold of this I swung myself oJ the ship, and lowered myself into
the boat.
Senator Smith. How far did you have to swing yourself ?
Maj . Peuchen. The danger was jumping off from the boat. It was
not after I got a straight line; it was very easy lowering. But I
imagine it was opposite the C deck at the time. On getting into the
boat I went aft in the lifeboat, and said to the quartermaster, "What
do vou want me to do ?" He said, '^ Get down and put that plug in,"
and I made a dive down for the plug, and the ladies were all sitting
fretty well aft, and I could not see at all. It was dark down there,
felt with my hands, and I said it would be better for him to do it and
me do his work, and I said, "Now, you get down and put in the plug,
and I will undo the shackles," that, is, take the blocks off. So ho
dropped the blocks, and he got down, and he came rushing back to
•assist me, and he said, "Hurry up." He said "This boat is going to
founder." I thought he meant our lifeboat was going to founder. I
thought he had had some difficulty in finding the plug, or he had not
gotten it in properly. But he meant the large boat was going to
founder, and that we were to hurry up and get away from it. So we
fot the rudder in, and he told me to go forward and take an oar.
went forward and got an oar on the port side of the lifeboat ; the
t( »*».«*«^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTBB. .337
sailor was on my left, on the starboard side. But we were just
opposite each other in rowing.
Senator Smith. Who was the sailor ?
Maj. Peuchen. Hewastheman who gave evidence just before me.
Senator Smith. Mr. Fleet, from the lookout.
Maj. Peuchen. From the lookout, yes; sitting next to me on my
left. He told us to row as hard as possible away from the suction.
Just as we got rowing out part of the way, this stowaway, an
Italian
Senator Smith. Pardon me. Did the officer say to row away, so
as to get away from the suction ?
Maj. Peuchen. The quartermaster who was in charge of our boat
told us to row as hard as we could to get away from this suction, and
just as we got a short distance away tnis stowaway made his appear-
ance. He was an Italian by birth, I should think, who had a broken
wrist or arm, and he was of no use to us to row. He got an oar out,
but he could not do much, so we got him to take the oar in.
Senator Smith. Where did he make his appearance from, Major?
Maj. Peuchen. Underneath; I think he was stowed away under-
neath. I should imagine if there was any room for him to get
underneath the bow of the boat he would be there. I imagine that
was where he came from. He was not visible when looking at the
boat. There were only two men when she was lowered.
Senator Smith. Would you know him if you should see him ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, it was dark. At daylight I was rowing very
hard — in the morning — and I did not notice. As we rowed, pulled
away from the Titanic, there was an officer^s call of some kind. We
stopped rowing.
Senator Smith. A whistle ?
Maj. Peuchen. A sort of a whistle. Anywajr, the quartermaster
told us to stop rowing so he could hear it, and this was a call to come
back to the ooat. *So we all thought we ought to go back to the
boat. It was a call. But the (quartermaster said, '*No, we are not
going back to the boat." He said, ^^It is our lives now, not theirs/'
and he insis.ted upon our rowing farther away.
Senator Smith. Who made the rebellion against it )
Maj. Peuchen. I think the rebellion was made by some of the
married women that were leaving their husbands.
Senator Smith. And did you join in that ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not sav anything. I knew I was perfectly
powerless. He was at the rudder. He was a very talkative man.
He had been swearing a good deal, and was very disagreeable. I had
had one row with him. I asked him to come and row, to assist us in
rowing, and let some woman steer the boat, as it was a perfectly calm
night. It did not require any skill for steering. The stars were out.
He refused to do it, and he told me he was in command of that boat,
and I was to row.
Senator Smith. Did he remain at the tiller ?
Maj. Peuchen. He remained at the tiller, and if we wanted to go
back while he was in possession of the tiller, I do not think we could
have done so. The women were in between the quartermaster and
myself and the other seaman. The night was cold and we kept
rowing on. Then he imagined he saw a light. I have done a good
deal of yachting in my li^, I have owned a yacht for six years and
t< -.-- ^ .^ 9>
388 TITANIC DISASTEB.
have been out on the Lakes, and I could not see these lights. I saw
a reflection. He thought it was a boat of some kind. He thought
probably it might be a buoy out there of some kind, and he called out
to the next boat, which was within hearing, asking if he knew- if
there was any buoy around there. This struck me as being per-
fectly absurd, and showed me the man did not know anything about
navigating, expecting to see a buoy in the middle of the Atlantic.
However, he insisted upon us rowing. We kept on rowing toward
this imaginary Ught and, after a while, after we had gone a long dis-
tance— 1 am ahead of my story. We commenced to hear signs of
the breaking up of the boat.
Senator Smith. Of the Titanic?
Maj. Peuchen. Of the Titanic. At first I kept my eyes watching
the lights, as long as possible.
Senator Smith. From your position in the boat, did you face it ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was facing it at this time. I was rowing this
way [indicating], and afterwards I changed to the other way. We
heard a sort oi a call for help after this whistle I described a few
minutes ago. This was the officer calling us back. We heard a sort
of a rumbling sound and the lights were still on at the rumbling
sound, as far as my memory serves me; then a sort of an explosion,
then another. It seemed to be one, two, or three rumbling sounds,
then the lights went out. Then the dreadful calls and crys.
Senator Smith. For help?
Maj. Peuchen. We could not distinguish the exact cry for assist-
ance; moaning and crying; frightful. It affected all the women in
our boat whose husbands were among these; and this went on for
some time, gradually getting fainter, fainter. At first it was horrible
to listen to.
Senator Smith. How far was it away ?
Mr. Peuchen. I think we must have been five-eighths of a mile, I
should imagine, when this took place. It was very hard to guess the
distance. There were only two of us rowing a very heavy boat with
a good many people in it, and I do not thiiJ? we covered very much
ground.
Senator Smith. While these cries of distress were going on, did any-
one in the boat urge the quartermaster to return ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; some of the women did. But, as I said
before, I had had a row with him, and I said to the women, **It is no
use you arguing with that man, at all. It is best not to discuss
matters wiui him.'' He said it was no use going back there, there
was only a lot of stiflFs there, later on, which was very unkind, and
the women resented it very much. I do not think he was qualified
to be a quartermaster.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, you did not return to the
boat?
Maj. Peuchen. We did not return to the boat.
Senator Smith. After you left its side ?
Maj. Peuchen. No.
Senator Smith. And when the boat went down, were you looking
toward it ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was looking toward the boat; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see it ?
if «. 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER, 339
Maj. Peuchen. I saw it when the lights went out. You could not
tell very much after the lights went out.
Senator Smith. You were not close enough to recognize anyone
aboard ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, no.
Senator Smith. Could you see the outlines of the people on the
deck?
Maj. Peuchen. No; you could not. I could only see the outline
of the boat, you m^ht say.
Senator Smith. Do you know how she went down ?
Maj. Peuchen. While the lights were burning, I saw her bow
pointing down and the stern up ; not in a perpendicular position, but
considerable.
Senator Smith. About what angle ?
Maj. Peuchen. I should think an angle of not as much as 45®.
Senator Smith. From what you saw, do you think the boat was
intact, or had it broken in two ?
Maj. Peuchen. It was intact at that time. I feel sure that an
explosion had taken place in the boat, because in passing the wreck
the next morning — we steamed past it — I just happened to think of
this, which may be of some assistance to tnis inquu-y — I was stand-
ing forward, looking to see if I could see any dead bodies, or any of
my friends, and to my surprise I saw the barber^s pole floating.
Tfie barber's pole was on the C deck, my recollection is — the barber
shop — and that must have been a tremendous explosion to allow
this pole to have broken from its fastenings and drift with the wood.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the explosions ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir; I heard the explosions.
Senator Smith. How loud were they ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, a sort of a rumbling sound. It was not a
sharp sound — more of a rumbling kind of a sound, but still sharp at
the same time. It would not be as loud as a clap of thunder, or
anything that way, or like a boiler explosion, I should not think.
Senator Smith. Were these explosions evidently from under the
water?
Maj. Peuchen. I should think thej' were from above. I imagined
that the decks had blown up with the pressure, pulling the doat down,
bow on, this heavv weight, and the air between the decks; that is my
theory of the explosion. I do not know whether it is correct or not,
but I do not think it was the boilers. I think it was the pressure,
that heavy weight shoving that down, the water rushing up, and
the air coming between the decks; something had to go.
Senator Smith. How many explosions did you hear ?
Maj. Peuchen. I am not absolutely certain of this, because there
was a good deal of excitement at the time, but I imagine there were
three, one following the other very quickljr.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain after he told you to go
below and get through the window into the lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I never saw him after that.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of the captain, was he alert
and watchful ?
Maj. Peuchen. He was doing everything in his power to get
women in these boats, and to see that tfiey were lowered properly. I
<( »«,».^,«^ ff
340 TITANIC DISASTEB*
thought he was doing his duty in regard to the lowering of the boats,
sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the officer of the watch that night ?
Maj. Peuchen. Whom do you mean? I hardly know what you
mean?
Senator Smith. Who was the officer with you on your side of the
boat?
Maj. Peuchen. The second officer.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ligh toller ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you seen the captain before that night ?
Maj. Peuchen. I passed him in one of the companionways some
place, just about dinner time.
Senator Smith. What time ?
Maj. Peuchen. I can not be very certain as to the hour; around
7 o'clock, I imagine. I generally come out to dress about 7 o'clock.
Senator Smith. What time dia you dine that night ?
Maj. Peuchen. I dined a little after 7; I think it was a quarter
after.
Senator Smith. In the main dining room ?
Maj. Peuchen. In the main dining room- yes.
Senator Smith. Did the captain dme in tnat room ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not think so. I think he dined in the other- -
in the restaurant.
Senator Smith. But vou did not see him ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not see him dining.
Senator Smitb[. I wish you would say whether or not these lifeboats
were equipped with food and water and lights.
Maj. JPeuchen. As far as I could tell, our boat was equipped with
everything in that respect. I heard some talk that there was not
proper food in some of the boats, and when I was on the Carpathia I
maae it my business to go down and look at one or two, and 1 found
hard-tack in this sealed box.
Senator Smith. In both of them ?
Maj. Peuchen. On the boat. I did not go all around the fleet.
Senator Smith. You say you looked at one or two ?
Maj. Peuchen. One or two.
Senator Smith. Did you find provisions and water in both ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not examine the kegs, but I was assured by
the sailors there was water in them.
Senator Smith. Did you see lights in them ?
Maj. Peuchen. We nad lights in our boat, but some of the other
boats did not. I know there was a boat that hung near us that had
not lights. Whether it was on account of not being able to light their
lights I do not know.
Senator Smith. You say there were 36 or 37 people in your boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In the first boat that was lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I said I thought about 26 or 27.
Senator Smith. In the first one ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; I think so.
Senator Smith. And 23 in the second boat before you got in?
Maj. Peuchen. Including the stowaway there would be 23. I
made the twenty-fourth.
''titanic '' DISASTEB. 341
Senator Smith. Twenty women ?
Maj. Peuchen. Twenty women, yes; the Quartermaster, one sea-
man, the stowaway, and then when I got in tnere were 24.
Senator Smith. Any children ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I do not think we had any children. Later on
we tied up to another boat, toward morning, for a very short time — I
think for about 15 minutes.
Senator Smith. What boat was that ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know. Our quartermaster did not know
the number of our boat. I do not know the other. I know they
called out and asked the number of our boat and our quartermaster
did not know which it was.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony given this morning by
the third officer?
Maj. Peuchen. I heard part of it, sir. I was out in the hall while
he was giving some of it.
Senator Smith. Did you hear lum say that a lifeboat was attached
to liis lifeboat for a whde ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; but, th^n, let me see; did he not say he took
some people off of that boat ?
Senator Smith. I was going to come to that.
Maj. Peuchen. No; that was not our boat.
Senator Smith. He said he took three people out of his lifeboat.
Maj. Peuchen. And put them into the one attached.
Senator Fletcher. On the starboard side of No. 7.
Senator Smith. That was not done in your boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No. The only thing that occurred with the boat
we were tied up with was, we asked how many men they had in their
boat, and this quartermaster said he had about seven sailors, or some-
thing like that — six or seven. Then we said, ^* Surely you can spare
us one man, if you have so many,'' and we got a fireman.
Senator Smith. You got a fireman?
Maj. Peuchen. One more man out of that boat.
Senator Smith. They transferred one more man to you ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; one more man.
Senator Smith. What did he do ?
Maj. Peuchen. He assisted in rowing on the starboard side of the
lifeboat, and I rowed on the port side.
Senator Smith. Did any or the women help with the oars?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; they did, very pluckily, too. We got the
oars. Before this occurred we got a couple of women rowing aft, on
the starboard side of our boat, and I got two women to assist on our
side; but of course the woman with me got sick with the heavy work,
and she had to give it up. But I believe the others kept on rowing
^luite pluckily for a considerable time.
Senator Smith. Do you know who these women were at the oars?
Maj. Peuchen. I know one of them.
Senator Smith. Give the name.
Maj. Peuchen. If you will excuse me, I will have to look it up.
[Referring to memorandum.] Miss M. E. A. Norton, Apsley Villa,
Horn Lane, Acton, London.
Senator Smith. Is that the onlv one of the women who handled the
oars that you know by name ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I think there is another.
342 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. The other two women who handled the oars you
do not know?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know their names.
Senator Smith. Do you know any other passengers on your life-
boat?
Maj. Peuchen. There are several who put their names on the back
of that card [indicating].
Senator Smith. Can you read them ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mrs. Walter Clark, 2155 West Adams Street, Los
Angeles, Cal.; Miss E. Bowerman, ThorncUff, St. Leonards-on-Sea,
England; Mrs. Lucien P. Smith, Huntington, W. Va.; Mrs. Martin
Rothschild, 753 West End Avenue, New York; Mrs. Tyrell Caven-
dish, Driftwood, Monmouth; Mrs. Edgar J. Mayer, 158 West Eighty-
sixth Street, New York; Mrs. Walter Douglas, Deepshaven, Mass.;
Mrs. G. G. Brown, Denver.
Senator Smith. Major, at any time between leaving the side of
the Titanic and reaching the Carpathia, did Mrs. Douglas hold the
tiller ?
Maj. Peuchen. In our lifeboat? ^
Senator Smith. Yes.
Maj. Peuchen. I think the quartermaster was at the tiller all the
time, with the exception probaoly of a cou])le of minutes. I know
he asked one of the ladies for some brandy, and he also asked for one
of her wraps, which he got.
Senator Smith. The officer did ?
Maj. Peuchen. The quartermaster, not the officer.
Senator Smith. Do you know Mrs. Douglas ?
Maj. Peuchen. Mrs. Walter Douglas?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was her husband lost ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On what deck were vou when vou had this con-
versation with Mr. Charles M. Ha vs 'i
Maj. Peuchen. I was on C deck, on the deck which is one deck
above the dining saloon. I walked out and took him out to A deck.
Senator Smith. You say when the impact occurred, the ship
shuddered ?
Maj. Peuchen. When the impact occurred, describing it I would
say it would be like a wave striking it, a very heavy wave.
Senator Smith. How soon after that did tlie boat begin to list ?
Maj. Peuchen. I should think about 25 minutes afterwards.
Senator Smith. So far as you could observe, did the passengers '
have on Hfe belts ?
Maj. Peuchen. They had.
Senator Smith. Before you left the boat, so you can.say from your
own knowledge they had them on ?
Maj. Peuchen. I say if they had not them on, I think they could
have gotten them all right. I did not hear of any shortage of life
preservers, or of any complaints, rather.
Senator Smith. Did you have any light on your lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; we did.
Senator Smith. What was the color ?
Maj. Peuchen. Just an ordinary white light.
it -»^. ^— ^ >>
TITANIC DISASTB^R. 343
Senator Smith. Not a green light ?
Maj. Peuchen. No.
Senator Smith. But a white Ught ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see other lights on lifeboats ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. We could see those different lifeboats that
had lights. They were all over. They were not all staying together
at all. Some oi them were going east, west, north, and south, it
seemed to me, but there was one boat that had a sort of an electric
light, and one a sort of a bluish light, as well, which we thought at
first was a steamer or something.
Senator Smith. I believe you said you have had considerable expe-
rience as a mariner ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you say whether the Titanic listed to the star-
board or port side ?
Maj. Peuchen. She listed to the starboard side; the side she was
strucK on.
Senator Smith. Did she go-down by the bow or by the head ?
Maj. Peuchen. EventuaUy, you mean?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Maj. Peuchen. She was down by the bow. You mean the head by
the bow, do you not ?
Senator Smith. Exactly.
Maj. Peuchen. It is the same thing.
Senator Smith. No; not exactly the same thing. Where was this
impact on the bow of the ship ?
Maj. Peuchen. It was aft of the bow about 40 feet, I should imag-
ine, on the starboard side — about 40 or 50 feet, I should imagine —
from where the ice started to come oflf the iceberg.
Senator Smith. You say you saw some ice on tlie deck ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of anyone being injured by ice on the
deck ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; but I know a ^reat many of the passengers
were made afraid by this iceberg passing their portholes. The snip
shoved past this ice, and a great many of them told me afterwards
they could not understand ttus thing moving past them — those that
were awakened at the time. In fact, it loft ice on some of the port-
holes, they told me.
Senator Smith. Do you know of your own knowledge whether any
alarm was sounded to arouse the passengers from their rooms after
the impact ?
Maj. Peuchen. There was no alarm sounded whatever. In fact,
I talked with two young ladies who claimed to have had a very narrow
escape. They said their stateroom was right near the Astors, I think
almost next to it, and they were not aw^akcned.
Senator Smith. They were not awakened ?
Maj. Peuchen. They slept through this crash, and they were
awakened by Mrs. Astor. She was in rather an excited state, and
their door being open — and I think the Astor door was open — they
think that was the means of their being saved.
Senator Smith. On what deck were they ?
344 TITANIC DISASTER.
Maj. Pbuchen. I do not know, sir. It was only conveisation told
me on the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. I think you said that from your judgment and from
your own observation there was no general alarm given i
Maj. Peughen. No, I did not hear one. I was around the boat all
the time.
Senator Smith. After getting aboard the Carpathia^ did you learn
the latitude and lon^tude in ¥mich the boats were picked up ?
Maj. Peuchen. No^ sir; I did not. All I know is that when I
made inquiries for the nearest port, I was told it was 36 hours' sail
to Halifax.
Senator Smith. Did you see those lifeboats on the port side of the
ship ? Were you on the port side ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was on the port side.
- Senator Smith. Did you see tnem on the starboard side?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir. We heard afterwards that the officers
on the starboard side were more generous in allowing the men in
than on the port side. That is what I heard afterwards; that scmie
of the officers on the starboard side had- allowed some of the men into
the boats.
Senator Smith. You were on the same side with Mr. Lightoller ?
Maj. Peuchen. That was the port side; yes.
Senator Smith. The second officer?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. And on that side they did not permit but two
men to get into the first boat ?
Maj. rEUCHEN. I think there were four sailors in the first boat, sir.
Senator Smith. Not more than four?
Maj. Peuchen. I would not be certain about that, sir. They
did not allow any male passengers; that is what I mean.
Senator Smith. Did you see any Ufeboat that was caught in the
gear or tackle ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; the boats I saw lowered lowered away very
nicely, indeed, in a very short time.
Senator Smith. Did you see any collapsible boat lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I tliink our boat left before they started to
get those out.
Senator Smith. Were those lifeboats taken aboard the Carpathian
Maj. Peuchen. I think two or three boats were allowed to drift.
One, 1 think, had some dead bodies in it. I saw two, at least, drifting
away. I was afraid they could not take care of more.
Senator Smith. You saw two or three drifting away ?
Maj. Peuchen. That is, after they let them go.
Senator Smith. Did vou see anv dead bodies in those drifting boats ?
Maj. Peuchen. No;1 saw dead bodies in one of the boats that came
up, lying in the bow. I do not know whether that was set adrift or
not. I was told that one boat contained three bodies.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Ismay that night ?
Maj. Peuchen. I saw him — which night?
Senator Smith. Sundav night ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think I saw him standing for a moment without
his hat on; just a moment, on the port side.
Senator Smith. On the boat deck?
Maj. Peuchen. On the boat deck; yes.
'* TITANIC " DISASTER. 345
Senator Smith. What time ?
Maj. Peuchen. I should say it would be probably an hour after we
had struck the iceberg.
Senator Smith. An hour after you struck the iceberg ?
Maj. Peuchen. I would not be certain. I think it was Mr. Isina3\
I think I saw him standing for a moment.
Senator Smith. What was he doing ; anything ?
Maj. Peuchen. Not at that time.
Senator Smith. You did not see him after that ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not see him after that except on coming
aboard the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Hays after he passed this word
with you about the icebergs ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. I saw him a^ain on the upper deck, just before
I started to help with tne boats. E^ said, ' ' Peuchen, this ooat is good
for eight hours yet."
Senator Smith. That is the last time you saw him ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. I shook hands with him then and he said,
^'This boat is good for eight hours. I have just been getting this
from one of the best old seamen, Mr. Crossley" — I think he men-
tioned his name — '*of Milwaukee," and some person else; and he said,
' 'Before that time, we will have assistance."
Senator Smith. Did you know of the proximity of the Titanic to
ice on Sunday ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir. All I know is that there was a big change
in the temperature between the afternoon and the time I went on
deck later on in the evening.
Senator Smith. Did that indicate anything unusual to vou ?
Maj. Peuchen. I had only had experience once before among
icebergs, and it was cold, and a similar change took place in the
weather.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been in the vicinity of the Grand
Banks before ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; this was on the Gulf of St. Lawrence, just as
we were approaching the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
Senator Burton. This change in temperature would not neces-
sarily mean that there was ice in the immediate vicinity; it might
occur just as the weather changes from morning to evening, or from
evening to morning ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sif ; there was quite a change in temperature.
Senator Smith. Who was the quartermaster ? What was his
name!
Maj. Peuchen. His name was
Senator. Smith. Who was the quartermaster on your lifeboat, I
mean?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know exactly how to pronounce his name,
but it is spelled H-i-c-h-e-n. He was the man at the wheel on Sunday
evening.
Senator Smith. Have you his initials ?
Maj. Peuchen. No. He was Quartermaster Hichen. I think
Erobably you can find him; but he was tlie man at the wheel, and
e was calling out to the other boats wanting to know what officer
was on duty at that time. He did not seem to know which officer,
at the time of the sighting of the iceberg, was on duty.
346 TITAKIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. What was the movement of the sliip after the
collision with the iceberg ?
Maj. Peuchen. After the collision it seemed to me — not immedi-
ately, but after a short space of time — it sounded as though we were
reversing.
Senator Fletcher. What effect did that have upon the progress
of the ship, if you noticed ?
Maj. Peuchen. She still was going, even if they were reversing
for a certain period.
Senator Fletcher. Did you observe how long she continued to
go ahead ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; I did not.
Senator Fletcher. Did you form any idea as to how far she had
gone beyond the iceberg, after striking it, before she stopped ?
Maj. Peuchen. No. I was really too much interestea m changing
my clotlies and in my friends, and I really did not pay any attention
to that.
Senator Fletcher. Have you any idea how far you were away
from the iceberg when you took to tne lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. We took to the lifeboat — I should imagine I was
in the lifeboat probably an hour after we struck. We had been
going ahead at a pretty good rate of speed, and then we had to
reverse. I should imagine we would be 3 miles away from it, I
think — at least 2J miles, probably.
Senator Fletcher. After you took to the lifeboat you proceeded
to row in the direction in which the ship had been moving, westward ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; we started right off from the port side of the
boat directly straight off from her about amidship, on the port side,
right directly north, I think it would be, because the northern lights
appeared where this light we had been looking at in that direction
appeared shortly afterwards.
Senator Fletcher. When did you first see an iceberg ?
Maj. Peuchen. A year ago
Senator Fletcher (interposing). No, I did not mean that; I mean
on that occasion. You did not see the iceberg the ship struck, I
understand.
Maj. Peuchen. No; I did not see that.
Senator Fletcher. When did you first see an iceberg there ?
Maj. Peuchen. Just after daybreak or just a little before daybreak.
Senator Fletcher. Can you give us an idea of how far you prob-
ably were at that time from where the Titanic went down ?
Maj. Peuchen. I should imagine we would be probably 2 miles,
and we kept on rowing for this imaginary light for some time.
Senator Fletcher. How far away from you was this iceberg, and
in what dii-ection ?
Maj. Peuchen. There were several icebergs. There were at least
three icebergs that you could see plainly. Tnere was one toward the
front, the way our boat was facing, and one on the west. I should
think there was one toward the north and one toward the south. We
seemed to be in a nest of icebergs, with some smaller ones, of course.
Senator Fletcher. About how many, in all, that you can recall ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think you could see — at least to count, I think —
five.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat were about the sizes of them ?
ti »*«.«..^ yf
TITAKIO mSASTEB. 347
Maj. Peuchen. Two were large; another was sort of smaller in size.
Some were jagged, but very hign, and a number of them not so high.
Senator Fletcher. These large ones you think were about what
height above the water, and what width and length, if you can give us
an idea ?
Maj. Peuchen. They were at least 100 feet high, two of them, and
of a width I should think of 300 feet and 400 feet long; somewhat like
an island.
Senator Fletcher. Major, do vou mean for us to understand that
at the time Ufeboat No. 4 and hfeboat No. 6 on the port side of the
ship were loaded and lowered every woman in sight was given an
opportunity ?
Maj. Peuchen. Every woman on the port side was given an oppor-
tunity. In fact, we had not enough women to put into the boats.
We were looking for them. I can not understand why we did not take
some men. The boats would have held more.
Senator Fletcher. If there had been more women there they
could have found room in those boats ?
Maj. Peuchen. Plenty of room.
Senator Fletcher. Do you mean to say, too, that so far as you
knew and heard and observed no general alarm was given thoroughout
the ship, arousing the passengers, and advising them of their danger ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not hear any alarm whatever.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know what the method is of giving an
alarm in an emergency of that kind ?
Maj. Peuchen. I have never had the experience of an accident at
sea before.
Senator Fletcher. Major, can jou give us any idea why, if the
passengers were equipped with life bdts, and they were "in good
condition, those passengers would not float and live for four or five
or six hours afterwards?
Maj. Peuchen. That is something that astonished me very much.
I was surprised, when we steamed through this wreckage very slowly
after we left the scene of the disaster — we left the ground as soon as
this other boat, the Califomian, I understand, came along — that we
(lid not see any bodies in the water. I understood the Califomian
was going to cruise around, and when she came we started off, and
we went right by the wreckage. It was something like two islands,
and was strewn along, and I was interested to see if I could see any
bodies, and I was surprised to think that with all these deaths that
had taken place we could not see one body; I was very much sur-
prised. 1 understand a life preserver is supposed to keep up a person,
whether dead or alive.
Senator Fletcher. You think the CarpcUhia passed in the imme-
diate vicinity where the Titanic went down ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, I would not say the immediate vicinity,
because there was a breeze started up at daybreak, and the wreckage
would naturaUy float away from wnere she went down, somewhat.
It might be that it had floated away, probably a mile or half a mile;
probably not more than that, considering that the wind only sprang
up at daybreak.
Senator Fletcher. Have you any idea which way that drift
would tend, on account of the breeze or other conditions there ?
Maj. Peuchen. Which way the wind was blowing, you mean?
848 TXTANia DI8ASTBB.
Senator Flbtohjer. Yes.
Maj. Peuchen. The wind was blowing, I imagine, from the north
at that time.
Senator Fletcher. You heard sounds of people calling for help
when you were, you say, about five-eighths of a mile away, when the
Titanic went down ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And immediately you heard these cries and
then you heard them gradually die out f
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Is it your idea that the water was so cold that
a person could not live in it except for a short time ?
Maj. Peuchen. I feel quite sure that a person could not live in
that water very long. Those who had been in the water had their
feet frozen; that is, those who were standing up in a boat in the
water. I happened to have .the cabin with t&ee of theift who were
rescued, and they said they sustained their life by punching each
other during the two or three hours they stood up. The minute
any one got tired and sat down in the water, or at least very shortly
thereafter, he floated off the raft, dead, I believ^.
Senator Fletcher. What was the temperature of the water, if
you know?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You say people were frozen ?
Maj. Peuchen. Their feet were frozen; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was that by exposure, after being taken out
of the water on the boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. sir. A number of them swam, I know of
three cases, at least, wnere they jumped from the big boat and swam
and got on to a raft which was partly submerged in the water, and
they stood up in the raft, and those are the ones whose feet were badly
swollen or frozen.
Senator Fletcher. You assume from that that the water was very
cold?
Maj. Peuchen. I am sure it was.
Senator Fletcher. Was it below the freezing point ?
Maj. Peuchen. It must have been very near the freezing point,
anyway. It probably would not be quite freezing; but it bemgsalt
water, of course it would not freeze veir readily.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any noating ice, aside from these
icebergs ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, yes; when we started to steam away we passed
a lot of floating ice, I suppose several miles long.
Senator Fletcher. You mean the OarpcUMa steamed through the
ice?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. .
Senator Fletcher. Did you come into contact with floating ice
while you were on the lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; we did not.
Senator Fletcher. Have you any idea as to how long a person
could live in water like that?
Maj. Peuchen. It depends on his constitution, but I should
imagine that if a person could stay in the water a half an hour he
womd be doing very well.
t < -««« . ^--^ f f
TITAlSriO DISASTER. 349
Senator Fletcher. Woiild not the effort to swim, and exercise,
prevent one getting numb for several hours?
Maj. Peuchen. Up to a certain point; yes. But I do not think
a man could live an hour in that water.
Senator Fletcher. Did you observe in this wreckage any broken
pieces of life preservers, corks, and things of that sort?
Maj. Peuchen. There was a very large quantity of floating cork.
I am at a loss to understand where it came from. There were a great
many chabs in the water; aU the steamer chairs were floating, and
pieces of wreckage; but there was a particularly large quantity of
cork.
Senator Fletcher. What was the appearance of the cork ? Did
it look as if it had come from life preservers ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was not near enough to tell that. I would not
like to pass an opinion, but it looked like cork to me.
Senator Fletcher. You said, I believe, that there seemed to be
a lack of competent sailors to take charge of the lifeboats ?
Maj. Peuchen. I would not like to say that, sir. I said that they
were not at their stations, ready to man the boats. I imagine this
crew was what we would call in yachting terms a scratch crew,
brought from different vessels. Tliey might be the best, but they
had not been accustomed to working together.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any other boats filled — that is,
loaded — and lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. Those were the only two I saw filled and lowered.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the boats as the Carpathia reached
them? Did the boats come to the Carpathia or did the Carpathia
go around and pick up the boats ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know whether she came to anchor; I
think probably she did. However, she was in the lee of all the boats.
That is, we had all come down ; we were to the weather of the Car-
paihiay and so she stayed there until we all came down on her.
Senator Fletcher. Did vou observe in what manner these boats
reached the Carpathia? What position was your boat in, for instance,
amon^ the first or the last ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think there were about two or three after us.
We were almost the last. We were about the last, with the exception
of two or three.
Senator Fletcher. Did you observe the condition of those boats,
as to whether they were all loaded to their capacity or not at that
time, at the time you saw them unloaded ?
Maj. Peuchen. I saw some of the boats come in; one boat par-
ticularly was very full, had a large number of passengers. She
seemed to be crowded right down. Whether they had taken on more
in the water, I do not know.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know what boat that was — the number
of it, or the officer in charge ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; there seemed to be a lot of steerage or
second-class passengers on that boat; but atUl, I did not know them
by sight.
Senator Fletcher. Was it a collapsible boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; that was one of the regular lifeboats.
Senator Fletcher. The boat you were in, you say, could have car-
ried how many more people than you had ?
tt 9 9
S50 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Maj. Peuchen. Well^ I made inquiries, and I was told that those
boats were capable of holding from 60 to 65, I suppose according to
how they were stowed and how the boat was trimmed and the weight
of the passengers; but I should imagine they ought to hold a good
number. They seemed very solid and strong boats. I was told by
the second officer, though, that they could not lower those boats
filled to the full capacity. That was the capacity with them floating^
according to the figures given.
Senator Fletcher. And the idea was to fill them after they reached
the water ?
Maj. Peuchen. It struck me that those boats ought to have a cer-
tain capacity on the hooks, and then be loaded up to that capacity ;
and then they should have some means of filling them in the water.
Senator Fletcher. There were none attempted to be loaded
except from the rail ?
Maj. Peuchen. That is the only place I saw any boats loaded, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Referring to that light that you observed, that
you said you thought was a hallucination, did that disappear after
a while ?
Mai. Peuchen. Yes; it disappeared; but I did not think, from my
knowledge of yachting, that it was a boat light. I think it was one
of those reflected lights. The northern lights were very strong that
night. It might have been some reflection on ice. I was not sat-
isfied it was the light of a steamer, by any means.
Senator Fletcher. You could not tell, then, of course, w^hether it
might be a stern light or what sort of a light it might be on a steamer ?
Maj. Peuchen. It was a glare. It was not a distinct light, it was
a glare.
Senator Fletcher. Did Mr. Ismay give any directions or* orders
on the boat, so far as you know?
Maj. Peuchen. On which boat, sir?
Senator Fletcher. On the ship. You say you saw him there.
Maj. Peuchen. Only standing there. He did not in my presence.
Senator Xeivlands Major, you say this was a clear night ?
Maj. Peuchen. A clear night; yes.
Senator Newlands. Was it as clear while you were on the water
in this boat as it was prior to the catastrophe ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes ; it was a beautiful night. It was a dark night,
but starlight. We could see some distance. We could see anotner
boat without a light, some distance away, by the shadow.
Senator Newlands. You were how many hours on the water, do
you think?
Maj. Peuchen. I think we were rather late in getting to the Car-
paihia. I imagine that we were at least eight hours on the water.
Senator Newlands. About what time did you get on the Car-
pathiaf
Maj. Peuchen. It was after 8 oVlock that I looked at my watch;
it was something after 8 oVlock that we got on.
Senator Newlands. What time did the dawn come ?
Maj. Peuchen. We could just commence to distinguish light, I
think, about near 4 o'clock.
Senator Newlands. What was that answer?
Maj. Peuchen. About 4 o'clock.
tt ...M^...*,^ f7
TTfAJsac bibabtxb: 361
Senator Newlands. Prior to 4 o'clock, while you were drifting in
the water, did you see any icebei^s ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, we did not drift near anything; we saw
Senator Newxakds. When the dawn came, did you find yourself
near icebei^ 1
Maj. Peuchen. We found that there was a sort of a field of icebergs.
Tliere were icebergs in one direction, probably a mile away, and
another iceberg in another direction, probably half a mile away, and
another iceberg over here, probably 6 miles away.
Senator Nbwlands. Were there any ice fields ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not notice any in the morning. I was busy
rowing, because I rowed all the time. ' But when we started to steam
away on the Carpathian I could see this ice field 4 miles lone.
Senator Nbwlands. Did you observe any of these ice fields before
you got on the Carpathiaf
Mai. Peuchen. No, I did not. Well, I could see something like an
island at a distance, but not as clear as when we got on the Carpathia.
Senator Newlands. But you think when the dawn came the near-
est iceberg was about half a mile away ?
Maj. Peuchen. It was farther than that. In rowing the boat I
know we thought at first we would have to row close to the iceberg,
and we were men about 5 miles off, at least. It was a question
whether we were going to get very close to tliis island of ice or not.
The iceberg was between our boat and the Carpathia,
Senator Newlands. All the icebergs were not between you and the
Carpathiaf
Maj. Peuchen. No; this was the only one.
Senator Newlands. And the others were in different directions ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Newlands. At all points of the compass \
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How do you account for the fact that you
were not able to see any of these icebergs when you were in the water
before the dawn and you were able to see a boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Well, they were a little farther away than the
boat; but we picked these icebergs out pretty early in the morning,
before dawn. They were dark objects; in fact, we did not know what
they were at that time.
Senator Newlands. Is it your observation that on a night of that
kind glasses enable one to get a wider range of vision ?
Maj . PEtrcHEN. Yes ; we use glasses at night, especially when the
night is bright. There is such a difference in the human eye. Take 12
men on a yacht and one man will see twice as far as another.
Senator Nbwlands. Without glasses ?
Maj . Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. I mean at night, such a night as you had that
night, would glasses add very much to the range of your vision ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think they would. I can see better with glasses
at night than I can with my naked eye.
Senator Newlands. Have you any idea how much they add to the
range ?
Maj. Peuchen. For instance, if you look at the moon at night with
a ^lass you can see everything distinctly, and with the naked eye you
can not.
40475— pt 4—12 7
862 TITANIO BIBABTEB.
Senator Newlands. How is it with reference to objects on the sea ?
Maj. Peuohen. I think glasses assist you, provided it is bright
enough.
Senator Newlands. And you think that night was bright enough ?
Maj. Peuchen. I think it would assist. I really thim: if we had
had a searchlight, though, we would have saved the ship.
Senator Smith. You say the second officer told you that he could
not lower the lifeboats safely if they were filled to their capacity ?
Maj. Peuchen. The second officer sent for me on board the Car-
paihia, as he had heard some complaints from the ladies about this
Quartermaster; and while there I asked him regarding the loading of
tnese boats, and he stated that those boats were filled just nicely for
lowering from the height of the deck*
Senator Newlands. He told you this after the Titanic had gone
down?
Mai. Peuchen. Yes. I can not understand why they have such
very neavv block and tackle, if they can only put in such a small
number of people, because the tonnage of 24 people is only about a
ton and a half, EngUsh tons.
Senator Smith. Well, Major, some of these boats contained many
more people than were in your boat ?
Mai. Peuchen. Yes; but whether they were picked up afterwards
or not, I do not know.
Senator Smith. Or whether they were lowered from the TitaniCj
you do not know?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You heard nothing of that kind while these two
boats were being lowered ?
Maj. Peuchen. Heard what?
Senator Smith. Did you hear the second officer say that they couhl
only be partially filled and lowered with safety ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; he made no remark of that kind, sir. I think
it was a case that we had no more ladies to put in there.
Senator Smith. You had no more ladies to put in, and they were to
be lowered without being filled ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know exactly what '^filled'' means in that
sense — ^fiUed from the deck. I spoke to the officer about it a couple
of days afterwards, and he told me that was the reason they were not
filled, that they were just comfortably filled for lowering that dis-
tance.
Senator SMrrn. Did you see any rockets fired on the Titanic during
the 15 or 20 or 30 minutes before her sinking?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know as to that time before sinking, but
while we were lowering the boat they were sending up rockets.
Senator Smith. Sending them from your deck ?
Maj. Peuchen. From the bridge, I should say.
Senator Smith. What colored rockets — red and all colors ?
Maj. Peuchen. A good deal like an ordinary skyrocket, going up
and breaking, and the different colors flying down.
Senator Smith. Do you know why they were being exploded ?
Maj. Peuchen. Because we wanted assistance.
Senator Smith. Did you know that any assistance was available
Maj. Peuchen. No. I think if there was any assistance available
we should have been told of it when we left the Doat. We were row-
ft ff
TITAKIO DISASTER. 353
ing around there, and if we had known that some ship was coming we
would not have started off rowing for an imaginary hght, trying to
make a ^at many miles. I do not know iidiether they had that
information or not.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony that there was a light
sighted, or a boat sighted about 5 miles ahead of the Titanic^ after the
collision )
Maj. Peughen. I read in the morning paper that some evidence
was given yesterday in regard to that.
Senator Smith. 6ut you did not hear anything about that on the
ship ?
Maj. Peuohen No; and I did not see it.
Senator Smith. When you and Mr. Hays went forward to look at
the ice, how much of it could you see ?
Maj. Peuohen. I should think about 4i feet of ice, probably 1 J to
2 inches thick. That is, it would be thicker on the rail than it would
be on the bow, I heard the men walking over it, and it would crunch
under their feet.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to be understood as saying that you
saw that part of the berg that was sloughed off by the impact ?
Maj. Peuohen. Yes; sort of shaken off. As we went past, this
would scrape off.
Senator Smith. Did you look at the iceberg itself ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, I did not see that; it had passed.
Senator Smith. You did not see that %
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You could not describe its color or how it appeared ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you talk with Mr. Fleet, the man in the lookout,
who was in your lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. About this iceberg ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes. I spoke to him about it.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him about it ?
Maj. Peuchen. I was interested when I found he was in the
crow's nest, and I said, ^'What occurred?" In the conversation
he said he rang three bells, and then he signaled to the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did he say how far off the iceberg was when he
first sighted it %
Maj. Peuchen. No; he did not tell me that.
Senator Smith. Did he say what it looked Uke when he first
saw it %
Maj. Peuchen. No; he did not go into that. The only thing he
said was that he did not get any reply from the bridge.
Senator Smith. From tne telephone %
Maj. Peuchen. I heard afterwards that really the officers were
not required to reply.
Senator Smith. That is, the information is imparted from the
crow's nest to the officer at the bridge, and that is the end of that
information?
Maj. Peuchen. I spoke to the second officer on the boat regarding
the conversation, ana he told me it is simply a matter of whether
the officer wishes to reply or not. He gets the information, prob-
ably, and acts right on it without attempting to reply to the crow's
nest.
854 TITANIC PI8A8TEB.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you anything more about the iceberg
and the collision than vou have stated ?
Maj. Peuchen. That is all. They had some conversation — ^the
quartermaster was asking them who was on the bridge and they
were calling over, and they did not know which officer was on the
bridge, and the quartermaster called out to another boat, to the
quartermaster or whoever was in chaise of the other boat.
Senator Smith. Another Uf eboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From your boat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, sir; they were not far off.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Maj. Peuchen. I did not catch the answer.
Senator Smith. No ; I mean what did the quartermaster say ?
Maj. Peuchen. He said, ^^You know one officer was on duty on
the bridge at the time we struck." So far as I could gather, the
officer was in command of the other boat. He did not know; he
might not have been on dutv.
Senator Smith. And the lookout in the crow's nest did not seem
to know?
Maj. Peuchen. No.
Senator Smith. I would like to ask whether, from what you
observed, in your opinion, there was proper discipline on the part of
the crew in loading the lifeboats ?
Maj. Peuchen. xou wish to know whether there was discipline in
loading the lifeboats by the crew ?
Senator Smith. Yes; whether there was any order or discipline
about it, whether they were loaded systematically and with care,
and with consideration for the lives of the passengers, and considering
the penl in which they were placed ?
M!aj. Peuchen. Among those of the crew that I saw working, such
as loading the boats, lowering the boats, and filling the boats, the
discipline could not have been better.
Senator Smith. The discipline could not have been better t
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir; but there were too few.
Senator Smith. Too few of them ?
Maj. Peuchen. Too few, yes. That is, I am only speaking now
of the port side of the boat, where I happened to be. I can not speak
of all over the boat.
Senator Smith. No! I said from your observation.
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, just from that. I was surprised not to see
more sailors at their stations. I was also surprised that the boats
were not filled with more people.
Senator Smith. Each boat constitutes a station t
Maj. Peuchen. Yes, that is what I understand.
Senator Smith. Each lifeboat ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. And from vour observation, do I understand vou
to say that there was not a sailor at each station ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, I do not say that there was not a sailor at each
station, but there was not a full complement.
Senator Smith. There was not the full complement ?
Maj. Peuchen. No, sir. From what I gathered I understand that
these men had been told off; that is, that each man had been assigned
*< ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 855
to his station, but they had had no practice^ from what I learned from
talking with the crew.
Senator Smith. Did you see any drill yourself ?
Maj. Peuchen. Oh, no; there was no drill. As a rule Sunday is
the day they do some drilling; but I did not see any drilling on Sun-
day.
Senator Smith. Would you have been likely to see it if it had
occurred ?
Mai. Peuchen. Yes. It is very interesting and I always like to see
it. There is always the bugle sounding the call. I have seen it,
crossing, many tinies, the fire drill and the boat drill.
Senator Smith. You saw no drill from the time you left Southamp-
ton until the time this accident occurred ?
Maj. Peuchex. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you, before or after the Titanic struck, learn
that it was officially known to the ship, on Sunday, that there were
icebergs on or near her track?
Maj. Peuchen. I heard it afterwards, but not before.
Senator Smith. Not before Sunday ?
Maj. Peuchen. I heard, on the Carpaihiaj that they were expecting
icebergs or ice.
Senator Smith. From whom did you hear it ?
Maj. Peuchen. I heard the third officer just mention it, casually, to
two or three of them, that they knew that there was ice; that they
were approaching ice.
Senator Smith. What time of day was this ?
Maj. Peuchen. I do not know. It was on the fore part of the
Carpathia.
Senator Smith. The fore part of the journey on the Carpathia f
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator SMrra. Did they seem to be quite agreed that that was
the case, or was there some dispute about it ?
Maj. Peuchen. No; there was no dispute. This was just a casual
remark that was made.
Senator Smith. You do not know by whom ?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes; I know it was made by the third officer.
Senator Smith. By the third officer?
Maj. Peuchen. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is there anything further? I think that is all,
Major.
Maj. Peuchen. Could I make just a little statement, sir? It will
not be very long.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Maj. Peuchen. I have been quoted as making a great many state-
ments or as saying several things, and I would like to just put this
straight. I do not criticize Capt. Smith, but I do criticize the policy
and methods pursued by the company, for I feel sure that in this case
caution would have been of every virtue and would have averted the
terrible calamitv. I have been given the credit of saying many things
which are absolutely untrue and I wish to state that I nave not said
any personal or unldnd thing about Capt. Smith. I have been quoted
as saying some very unkind things about the late captain, but I assure
you I have never made any statement of that kind.
Senator Smith. Did you ever sail with him before ? ;
356 TITANIO DISASTEE.
Maj. Peuohen. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that all you care to sa^% Major?
Maj. Peuohen. That is all. I am here, sir, more on account of the
poor women that came off our boat. They asked me if I would not
come and tell this court of inquiry what I had seen, and when you
wired me, sir, I came at once, without being pressed in any way,
simply to carry out my promise to the poor women on our boat.
Senator Smith. The committee is greatly obliged, Major. You will
be excused.
With the committee's consent, we will take a recess until 10 o'clock
to-morrow morning.
Mr. Fleet, you wiSl be excused until 10 o'clock to-morrow.
At 5.40 o'clock p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow,
Wednesday, April 24, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
X
" TIT^A^DSriC " IDIS-A-STEIl
tts hearing
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S, RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 5
Printed for the use of the Committee on Conmierce
WASHIKQTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Umitbd States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman.
GEORGE C. PERKINS» CallfomU. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jb., Oregon. FRANCIS G. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE £. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTBT, CUrk,
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Pase.
Frederick Fleet 357
Robert Hichena 449
C. H. LiffhtoUer 421
Harold Godfrey Lowe 368
m
J
^* TITANIC^' DISASTER.
WEDNBSDAT, APRIL 24, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commeboe,
United States Senate,
Washington, u, 0.
The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman) ^ Perkins, Burton, Fletcher,
and Newlands.
TESTIMONT OF FEEDESICK FLEET— Sesuaed.
Senator Bxtbton. Mr. Fleet, while you were acting as lookout man.
were your eyes examined ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. iHow frequently ?
Mr. Fleet. We are supposed to have them examined every year,
or every two years.
Senator Burton. How long before you sailed on the Titanic were
your eyes examined ?
Mr. Fleet. About a year ago.
Senator Bubton. What was the nature of the test ?
Mr. Fleet. As to color, and looking at a distance.
Senator Bubton. That is, you would look at some point on or near
the sea, and your eyes were tested to see how you could descry
objects on the sea ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Bubton. What color can you distinguish most easily,
green, red, or white ?
Mr. Fleet. The whole lot, sir.
Senator Burton. Equally well ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Bubton. That is, red
Mr. Fleet (interrupting) . Green
Senator Burton. Green as readily as white ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton, You say you had had glasses until this trip ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. On every trip on any boat of the White Star
Line ?
Mr. Fleet. It is only the Oceanic I have been lookout on.
Senator Burton. Did you have the same glasses for night and for
dav?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And the glasses that are useful for day are also
useful for night ?
357
(( — ».. ^-^^ ff
358 TITANIC DISASTBE.
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Equally useful ?
Mi, Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. When you use the glasses you look straight
ahead only, at a part of the course before you, do you not ?
Mr. Fleet. We look all over the horizon.
Senator Burton. That is, you look around in every direction ?
That was your habit ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And until this trip you had the use of glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You were not using them on this trip. Who
conducted these tests as to your eyesight ?
Mr. Fleet. What do you mean. Senator ?
Senator Burton. When you were examined as to your eyes, as to
what you could see, who examined yoii ?
Mr. Fleet. The board of trade.
Senator Burton. An officer of the board of trade ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Were there any examinations by the officers of
the ship ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; they just asked us if we had eyesight tests.
Senator Burton. You saw some light on the horizon that night ?
Mr. Fleet. Not on the lookout, sir.
Senator Burton. Not on the lookout ?
Mr. Fleet. The only thing we saw was the iceberg. We had no
lights on that watch.
Senator Burton. You did not see this light of which mention has
been made until you got into the lifeboat?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Burton. What was it ?
Mr. Fleet. A bright light on the port bow, sir.
Senator Burton. On the port bow ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Burton. Was it moving, or was it stationary ?
Mr. Fleet. It did not seem to be moving at all.
Senator Burton. Are you sure it was a fight?
Mr. Fleet. It was a light, all right, because Mr. Lightoller, when 1
got into the boat, made us pull straight for it.
Senator Burton. Wliat did you think it was ?
Mr. Fleet. It might liave been a fisher sail, or something; it was
only just one bright light. I could not say what it was.
Senator Burton. You were in the boat with Mr. Hichens and this
gentleman who was on the stand yesterday ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Mr. Hichens thought it was a light on a boat,
did he ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes. Mr. Lightoller made us pull toward it. lie
seen it as well as us.
Senator Burton. You saw it before you got off the Titanic?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What became of that light ?
Mr. Fleet. We did not know. We pulled for it, but we did not
seem to get any nearer to it.
ti -.«..«*«^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTEB. 859
Senator Burton. Did it finally disappear ?
Mr. Fleet. No. Well, it disappeared by daybreak.
Senator Burton. That is all on that?
You did not get any nearer to it? It was not any more visible;
that is, any plainer to you ; 3^ou could not see it any rnore plainly ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; you could just see the light.
Senator Burton. You say when you first saw that iceberg that it
was about the size of these two tables, apparently ? That is the way
it looked to you ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Was it a mile away, or how far away was it?
Mr. Fleet. I can not say.
Senator Burton. Can you not give any estimate ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir. .
Senator Burton. Was it half a mile away ?
Mr. Fleet. I can not say. It was impossible to tell.
Senator Burton. Was it as far away as the boat's length ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say.
Senator Burton. Can you not say anything about it ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Immediately when you saw it, you sounded the
three gongs, did you ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Burton. Did you, then, inmiediately after that, pick up
the telephone ?
Mr. Fleet. I went up to the telephone as soon as ever I struck three
bells.
Senator Burton. And telephoned to the bridge ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And you got an answer immediately, did you ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you notice how quickly they turned the
course of the boat after you sounded the gongs?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir: they did not do it until I went to the telephone.
While I was at the telephone the ship started to move.
Senator Burton. You saw this, then, before or just after seven
bells?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Was it iust before or just after ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not thint we struck seven bells. I believe it was
just after seven bells.
Senator Burton. You said you did not believe that they struck
seven bells, and then you said it was just after.
just after half past
you saw it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you send another message to the bridge after
you had telephoned ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Could they have heard you on the bridge if you
had cried out ?
Mr. Fleet. I dare say they could.
t{ ff
360 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Burton. How soon after you telephoned to the bridge did
you strike the berg i
Mr. Fleet. I do not know.
Senator Burton. Was it one minute or two minutes?
Mr. Fleet. I could not tell you.
Senator Burton. What did you do in the meanwhile ?
Mr. Fleet. We just kept a lookout.
Senator Burton. You came nearer and nearer to it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you notice that the boat was bearing out to
the left from the berg, or was it going right ahead toward it ?
Mr. Fleet. It was going right ahead, as far as we knew; but when
I was at the phone it was going to port.
Senator Burton. You could see that, yourself?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; after I got up from the phone.
Senator Burton. You say it strucK the port bow, 60 feet from the
bow?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And it was not up as far as the crow's nest,
where you were ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Burton. It was about 50 or 60 feet high?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Burton. That is right ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. It was about 50 or 60 feet high ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Burton. Did the pieces of ice come over into the crow's
nest, where you were ?
Mr. Fleet. Oh, no; just on the forecastle head, on the well deck.
Senator Burton. I think that is all I care to ask him, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Smith. Senator Newlands, do you wish to ask the witness
any questions ?
Senator Burton. I shall ask to be excused for awhile.
Senator Smith. For how long, Senator ?
Senator Burton. Probably during the morning period.
Senator Newlands. I shall ask to be excused, also.
Senator Smith. Do you care to ask any questions first?
Senator Newlands. Not just at this time.
Senator Burton. There is one question that I would Uke to ask
this man in addition to what I have already asked him: When you
use the glasses or have the glasses to use, what part of the time do
you have the glasses to your eyes and what part of the time do you
depend on your naked eyesight ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not Icnow what you mean, sir.
Senator Burton, Suppose you had those glasses; would you have
them to your eves most of the time, using them ?
Mr. Fleet. 5^'o: no.
Senator Burton. What part of the time ?
Mr. Fleet. If we fancied we saw anything on the horizon, then we
would have the glasses to make sure.
Senator Burton. That is, if you saw anything on the horizon with
the naked eye? You understand what I mean by that, do you not i
Mr. Fleet. Yes. sir.
( < y J
TITANIC DISASTER. 361
Senator Burton. That is, you would use the glasses-
Mr. Fleet. You would use the glasses to make sure, before you
reported.
Senator Burton. Then you depend on your eyesight to see;
before you use the glasses?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Burton. And if you have any doubt about it you use the
glasses, then?
Mr. Fleet. That is it.
Senator Burton. That is all I have to ask, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Smith. Senator Fletcher, do you wish to interrogate the
witness ?
Senator Fletcher. You say that you were told by the men that
you relieved on the lookout, to watcn out for small ice?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was that the language, "small ice?^*
Mr. Fleet. Small icejves, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What did that mean to you ?
Mr. Fleet. Growlers — what they call growlers; just this lowlying
ice.
Senator Smith. You understood that to mean floating ice that
was not dangerous, as well as growlers and icebergs ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What do seven bells indicate ?
Mr. Fleet. What do seven bells indicate ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. Half past 11.
Senator Fletcher. It was, then, just about that time when you
gave the warning of the iceberg ahead ?
Mr. Fleet. Just a little after that.
Senator Fletcher. What does three bells mean ?
Mr. Fleet. Three bells ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. It is all according to what time we are up on the
lookout.
Senator Fletcher. You say that you gave three bells.
ilr. Fleet. Oh. three bells. That" means a vessel, or whatever it
is, right ahead. It indicates anything right ahead; any object.
Senator Fletcher. It indicates that there is some object right
ahead ? Is it a warning to people on the bridge that there is danger
ahead ?
Mr. Fleet. No; not always; just to let them know that there is
some object ahead.
Senator Fletcher. Yes. When you gave the three bells did you
immediately turn to the telephone ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long were you at the telephone ?
Mr. Fleet. I suppose half a minute.
Senator Fletcher. When you turned from the telephone and
observed the course of the ship, you saw she had turned to port ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did she turn immediately and suddenly, or
gradually, to port ?
Mr. Fleet. Just started to go as I looked up.
362 TITANIC DISA8TBB.
Senator Fletcher. Just started to go to port ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. To what extent did she change her course from
the direct line ?
Mr. Fleet. You mean how far did she go ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. A little over a point, or two points.
Senator Fletcher. Did she seem to respond readily to the wheel ?
Mr. Fleet. Well, we do not know that. We only know she
went.
Senator Fletcher. You could see she was going ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And did she continue to bear to port ?
Mr. Fleet. Until the iceberg was alongside of her.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell whether or not the iceberg was
moving; and if so, to what extent?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. You could not say ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. It was the submerged portion of the iceberg
that did the damage to the ship, was it not ?
Mr. Fleet. I suppose so.
Senator Fletcher. Did the ship strike the portion above the
water ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say. I know when we got up to it, it
struck our bow — a little of our bow.
Senator Fletcher. Did it strike the bow or just back of the bow?
Mr. Fleet. Just about in front of the foremast.
Senator Fletcher. Did it tilt the ship to anv extent ?
Mr. Fleet. She listed to port right afterwanfs.
Senator Fletcher. To wnat extent ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say; a slight list.
Senator Fletcher. Just immediately on striking the berg ?
Mr. Fleet. Just afterwards.
Senator Fletcher. Did it seem that the blow came beneath the
surface of the water and caused her to shift ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You say the berg was some 50 feet above the
surface, some 50 feet in height. Did you get an idea of the dimen-
sions of the berg:, as to its length and width ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Even when you hit against it ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Why not ?
Mr. Fleet. I am not a good judge of distance; I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. Could you not tell
Mr. Fleet. No; I could not.
Senator Fletcher. When you first saw it, it was as large as these
two tables ?
Mr. Fleet. W^hen we first saw it; that is about all.
Senator Fletcher. And it gradually grew in size ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Until you got right on it. Then, could you
tell how large it appeared ?
<< «,«.^,,^ 9'
TITANIC DISASTER. 363
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You say you helped to load No. 6 and No. 8
lifeboats on the port side ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Have you ever had any experience in loading
boats of that kind ; had you had any experience Def ore that ?
Mr. Fleet. We always do it on the White Star — j)racticing.
Senator Fletcher, i ou mean practicing or drill?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Had you ever had any practice or drill of that
kind on this ship ?
Mr. Fleet. We had it the day of sailing, in Southampton.
Senator Fletcher. Did you participate in that ?
Mr. Fleet. I went in one of the boats.
Senator Fletcher. You say that in No. 6 boat there were about
HO people, all told ?
5Ir. Fleet. As far as I can judge.
Senator Fletcher. How many were there in No. 8 ?
Mr. Fleet. It was too dark to count.
Senator Fletcher. But you saw them afterwards ? You went in
No. 6, did you not?
Mr. Fleet. But we did not coimt them. When she came along-
side of the Carpathia we did not count them then.
Senator Fletcher. When you went alongside of the Carpathia it
was broad daylight ?
Mr. Fleet. \es; but I did not trouble to count them.
Senator Fletcher. You just made an estimate that there were
about 30 people ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Do you think there were about the same num-
ber in lifeboat No. 8 ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say. I do not know what number went in
No. 8. As soon as I loaded Ao. 6 and No. 8, Mr. Ldghtoller made me
get in No. 6 and ship the rudder and put the women in
Senator Fletcher. Was No. 8 loaded after No. 6 ?
Mr. Fleet. It was.
Senator Fletcher. It was lowered after No. 6, was it ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. How many other boats did you see lowered?
Mr. Fleet. I did not see any more, because as soon as we got in
the water he made us pull for the light.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any lowered before No. 6 ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And that was the first time vou had seen that
light you pulled for ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Could you say whether or not vou loaded all
the people in No. 6 that could be safely loaded in the feoat ?
Mr. Fleet. Well, I loaded all the women; I got in No. 6 all the
women that were knocking around the deck at that time, those who
were around the boat at the time.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any women left on the deck who
did not get in the boats ?
364 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Fleet. I did not see any. All what was there got in the boats.
But they may have come up afterwards, when we were lowered. 1
could not say.
Senator Fletcher. Did you call for all that were about to come
and get in the boats ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any men left who did not get in
the boats ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes; there were men there, but the order was **only
women.*'
Senator Fletcher. Did men ask to get into the boats ?
Mr. Fleet. Wliat is that ?
Senator Fletcher. Did the men ask to be allowed to get into the
boats?
Mr. Fleet. No.
Senator Fletcher. During the time you have been serving as
lookout, have you been accustomed to use glasses ?
Mr. Fleet, i es, sir.
Senator Fletcher. This was the first trip you had ever taken where
you did not have glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Where did you ask for glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. We asked for them before we left Southampton — if
there was any glasses for the lookout — and they told us there was
none intended for them. We had glasses in Belfast.
Senator Fletcher. Did you after that ask for glasses ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir; before the ship left Southampton.
Senator Fletcher. But I say, after that?
Mr. Fleet. There was no use asking for them when they told us
that.
Senator Fletcher. Were there not glasses on the bridge and
other parts of the ship ?
Mr. Fleet. We did not know about that. We only knew that we
had a pair in Belfast; and then, when we asked for them after that,
they told us that there were none for us.
Senator Fletcher. What became of those glasses you had at
Belfast ?
Mr. Fleet. I do not know. I suppose they were on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the number of the lifeboat you
were in ?
Mr. Fleet. No. 6.
Senator Smith. Who was the officer in the lifeboat?
Mr. Fleet. There was none. There was only me and Quarter-
master Hichens.
Senator Smith. What is the name of the quartermaster, Hichens ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that the lifeboat that Maj. Peuchen was in?
Mr. Fleet. The gentleman that was speaking yesterday?
Senator SMrrn. The same one.
Mr. Fleet. The same one.
Senator Smith. Will you tell the committee, as far as you can,
what the quartermaster did. Did he take charge of the lifeboat ?
Mr. Fleet. He took charge.
Senator Smith. What did he do ; where did he sit in the boat i
'^ TITANIC '' DISASTEB. SeS"
Mr. Fleet. At tlie tiller; at the tiller all the time.
Senator Smith. All the time ?
Mr. Fleet. All the time.
Senator Smith. You are quite sure that a lady in that boat, a
woman, did not have the tiller?
Mr. Fleet. I am sure of it; positive.
Senator Smith. A Mrs. Douglass ?
Mr. Fleet. Nobody. Just the quartermaster who was there all of
the time.
Senator Smith. You took an oar, I suppose ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did Maj. Peuchen take an oar?
Mr. Fleet. He was right alongside of me. I was on the starboard
side and he was on the port side.
Senator Smith. What other men were in the boat ?
Mr. Fleet. We had a stowaway. Where he came from I do not
know.
Senator Smith. When did you first see him ?
Mr. Fleet. He was underneath the seat. We saw him as soon as
wo got clear. He showed himself then.
Senator Smith. As soon as you got clear. How far clear? Half a
mile or so ?
Mr. Fleet. About a mile clear. We rested.
Senator Smith. You were resting?
Mr. Fleet. And some other boat came alongside of us, and the
master-at-arms was in charge of that boat. We asked could he give
us more men.
Senator Smith. What was the master-at-arms' name ?
Mr. Fleet. I could not say. He is*the only one that survived.
Senator Smith. And you asked him if he could give you more men ?
Mr. Fleet. Could he give us another man to help pull.
Senator Smith. What did he say?
Mr. Fleet. He gave us a fireman — one of the firemen.
Senator Smith. Did any women pull the oars in your boat ?
Mr. Fleet. About two or three. One in the bow and the other
two aft, in the stem.
Senator Smith. You say this stowaway came out when you were
clear and resting?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When your oars were idle?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir; he showed himself as soon as ever we got clear
of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Did he take an oar?
Mr. Fleet. He managed to; but he could not use it on account of
his bad arm. He had a bad arm.
Senator Smith. A broken arm ?
Mr. Fleet. He had n bandage around it, and he said he could not
pull. So he put his oai in.
Senator Smith. Do you know who that man was ?
Mr. Fleet. He was an Italian.
Senator Smfth. This boat that came alongside gave you another
man, did they?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith:. And then did you separate from this other boat ?
366 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Mr. Fleet. No; we kept together for a while, until we seen the
flights of the Carpathia; then we proposed to pull for it.
' Senator Smith. Did you do it.
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far toward it ?
Mr. Fleet. I dare say she was about a mile off, or a little over.
Senator Smith. Did anybody propose to pull toward the place
where the Titanic went down ?
Mr. Fleet. AU the women asked us to pull there, before she went
down; but the quartermaster was in charge, and he would not allow
it. He told us to' keep on pulling.
Senator Smith. Did the women in your boat persist in their efforts
to get him to go back to the scene of the wreck?
Mr. Fleet. They asked him, but he would not hear of it; he told
us to keep on pulling^.
Senator Smith. Did you. say anything about it to the quarter-
master ?
Mr. Fleet. No; I never said a word; I just pulled an oar; I just
kept quiet.
Senator Smith. At that time could you hear cries of distress ?
Mr. Fleet. Very faint.
Senator Smith. Very many ?
Mr. Fleet. All together, 1 suppose, a loud cry.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the man in charge of your lifeboat
make any special comment on the men who were crying ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But, as a matter of fact, you did not go in the
direction of the Titanic at all, but in the direction of the Uarpathinf
Mr. Fleet. When we got thfe order from Lightoller to pull for the
light, we were pulling for it; but when we found we could get no
nearer and got a safe distance froin the ship we stopped.
Senator Smith. That is, a safe distance from the Uarpathiaf
Mr. Fleet. From the Titanic; and we stayed there for about a
quarter of an hour or a little over, until we sighted the Carpaihia's
lights, and then we pulled toward them.
Senator Smith. How far were you from the Titanic when you
stopped ?
Mr. Fleet. About a mile or a little over, because he come over the
place where the Titanic sank.
Senator Smith. What makes you think it was a mile ?
Mr. Fleet. Only surmising.
Senator Smith. That is your best judgment about it ?
Mr. Fleet. I suppose so.
Senator Smith. Ilow are you able to fix that fact in your mind,
that you were a mile from the Titanic in this small boat ?
Mr. Fleet. I heard people talk about it.
Senator Smith. Was that your own judgment, too ?
Mr. Fleet. I have got no judgment.
Senator Smith. I understood you to say you had no judgment of
distance at all
Mr. Fleet. No more I have not.
Senator Smith (continuing). When I was asking you alwut the
iceberg ?
Mr. Fleet. No more I have not.
1 1 .-,•« . ^-*^ f f
TITANIC DISASTER. 367
Senator Smith. So you based your conclusion that you were a
mile away upon what othere told you ?
Mr. Fleet. That is all.
Senator Smith. Could you tell how many ship's lengths you were
away, Titanic ship's lengths ?
Mr. Fleet. No; I coiud not.
Senator Smith. You could not tell that at all ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
Senator Fletcher. Were the steam sirens blowing ?
Mr. Fleet. Not as I know of.
Senator Fletcher. You did not hear them blow, at all ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the condition of the life belts on
the ship ?
Mr. Fleet. The condition of them ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Fleet. Yes; we all had one.
Senator Fletcher. Were they new ?
Mr. Fleet. All new.
Senator Fletcher. All the life belts on the ship were new ?
Mr. Fleet. I suppose so, for a new ship.
Senator Fletcher. You do not know whether they came from
some other ship or not ?
Mr. Fleet. No; I am not supposed to know that. They were all
new.
Senator Fletcher. They were all new ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And sound ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And in good order ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Fleet, before you entered the employ of the
White Star Line, were you obliged to undergo any examination for
eyesight ? Did you have your vision tested, your eyesight tested ?
" Mr. Fleet. No; only when I was going on the lookout I had them
tested.
Senator Smith. When did you have them tested last ?
Mr. Fleet. About a year ago.
Senator Smith. About a year ago ?
Mr. Fleet. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you have not had your vision tested since ?
Mr. Fleet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all. I wish you would hold yourself
subject to the orders of the committee. You may go.
I desire to make an announcement. First, I want to meet the
inquiry, so often heard, as to our purpose in this inquiry, and I want
to say th^ it is to get all of the facts bearing upon this unfortunate
catastrophe that we are able to obtain. It is, of course, verv appa-
rent that the surviving officers of the Titanic are not shipDuilders
having had to do with the construction of that vessel, and the com-
mittee have assumed that if these witnesses should tell what they
themselves know of the circumstances surrounding the ship up to the
time of the collision, and what transpired thereafter, this information
would be about all that we could obtain from these witnesses.
368 TITANIC DISASTER.
One word as to the plan. It has been our plan from the beginning
to first obtain the testimony of citizens or subjects of Great Britain
who are temporarily in this country,and this course will be pursued
until the committee conclude that they have obtained all informa-
tion accessible and useful to a proper understanding of this disaster.
Now, one word about the dimculties. To the credit of most of th
officers and crew, we have experienced no very, troublesome diffi-
culty in securing such witnesses as we felt were necessary. But
from the beginning until now there has been a voluntarj^, gratuitous,
meddlesome attempt upon the part of certain persons to influence the
course of the committee and to shape its procedure.
Misrepresentations have been made, I nave heard. Personally, I
have not seen a single newspaper since I was appointed chairman of
this committee, because I did not wish to be influenced by those
papers or unduly encouraged. Neither did I wish to take on any
partisan bias or prejudice whatsoever.
The representatives of the press have all cooperated in every way
possible to lighten the burdens of the committee and to assist in
obtaining the results we seek.
The committee will not tolerate any further attempt on the part
of anyone to shape its course. We shall proceed in our own way,
completing the official record, and the judgment of our efforts may
very appropriately be withheld until those who are disposed to ques-
tion its wisdom have the actual official reports.
I would like to call Mr. Lowe, the fifth officer.
TESTIMONY OF HABOLD GODFBET LOWE.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Will you give your full name to the reporter?
Mr. Lowe. Harold Godfrey Lowe.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you turn your chair so you are
facing the reporter.
Mr. Lowe. I am facing you, sir.
Senator Smith. Turn your chair so you will look directly at the
reporter. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Lowe. In North W^ales.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Lowe. Twenty-nine in the fall of the year, sir.
Senator Smith. Wnat is your business ?
Mr. Lowe. Seaman.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in that business ?
Mr. Lowe. Fourteen years.
Senator Smith. What experience have you had ?
Mr. IjOWE. I suppose I have had experience with pretty well every
ship afloat — all the different classes of ships afloat — ^from the schooner
to the square-rigged sailing vessel, and from that to steamships, and
of all sizes.
Senator Smith. So you have been employed on sailing vessels-^ —
Mr. Lowe. In pretty well every branch of the mercantile marine.
Senator Smith. Describe, if you will, the general nature of your
employment as a mariner, beginning with your first experience.
Mr. Lowe. As a sailor ?
Senator Smith. Yes, sir. I would like to get on the record, Mr.
Lowe, your full experience.
ft ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 869
Mr. Lowe. It will be very loi^, sir.
Senator Smith. Make it as brief as you can.
Mr. Lowe. I ran away from home when I was about 14, and I. went
in a schooner. I was in seven schooners altogether, and my father
wanted to apprentice me, but I said I would not be apprenticed ; that
I was not going to work for anybody for nothing, without any money;
that I wanted to be paid for my labor. That was previous to my
running away. He took me to Liverpool to a lot of offices there, and
I told him once for all that I meant what I said. I said, ^'I am not
going to be apprenticed, and that settles it.'' So of course I ran away
and went on tnese schooners, and from there I went to square-ngged
sailing ships, and from there to steam, and got all my certificates, and
then I was for five years on the West African coast in the service tnere,
and from there I joined the ^Vhite Star Line.
Senator Smith. When did you join the White Star Line ?
Mr. Lowe. About 15 montins ago, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the nature of your employment with
them?
Mr. Lowe. I was junior officer.
Senator Smith. On what ship ?
Mr. Lowe. I was third on the Tropic and I was third on the Belffic,,
and then I was sent to the Titanic.
Senator Smith. On what routes ? What were the routes i
Mr. Lowe. The Australian voyage, the two previous voyages.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been in the North Atlantic before ?
Mr. Lowe. Never; never. It was about the only place I had
never been before.
Senator Smith. When did you join the Titanic f
Mr. I^we. I joined the Titanic on April 21, in Belfast— March 21,
I believe; pardon me — ^in Belfast.
Senator Smith. Were you present at the trial tests in Belfast
Lfough?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Of the Titanicf
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; I was.
Senator Smith. What service did you render during those tests ?
Mr. Lowe. My service, sir, was pretty well general; to do any-
tliing we were told to do.
Senator Smith. Tell, if you can, what you did do.
Mr. Lowe. Worked out things; worked out the odds and ends, and
then submitted them to the senior officer. We are there to do the
navigating part so the senior officer can be and shall be in full charge
of the bridge and have nothing to worry his head about. We have
all that, the junior officers; there are four of us. The three seniors
are in absolute cha^e of the boat. They have nothing to woiry
themselves about. They simply have to walk backward and for-
ward and look after the ship, and we do all the figuring and aJl that
sort of thing in our chart room.
Senator Smith. What did you do that day, if you can tell ?
Mr. Lowe. What day ?
Senator Smfth. What part did you take or have to do on that day
with the test, in making the tests.
Mr. Lowe. I could no more tell you now than fly.
40476— PT 5—12 2
S70 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I will ask you specifically whether you assisted in
making any tests of the lifeboats ?
ifr. Low^E. We overhauled them.
Senator Smith. In what way ?
Mr. Lowe. Mr. Moody and myself and Mr. Pitman and Mr. Box-
hall took the port boat— that is, I took the starboard, and they took
the port, and we overhauled them; that is to say, we counted the
oars^ the rowlocks, or the thole pins, whichever you like to call them,
and saw there was a mast and sail, rigging, gear, and everything else
that fitted in the boats, and plugs, and also that the biscuit tank was
all right, and that there were two breakers in the boat, two bailers,
two plugs, and the steering rowlock; that is, the rowlock for the oar
that you ship aft when there is a heavy sea running, because you can
not steer by rudder when there is a heavy sea running, and you put
an oar over and you have greater command over an oar and can put
more power on it.
Everything was absolutely correct with the exception of one dipper.
A dipper is a long thin can about that length [indicating] and about
that mameter [indicating] — an inch and a quarter diameter — and you
dip it down into the water breaker and draw the water. That was the
.omy thing that was short out of our boats, and our boats were,
respectivdy, Nos. 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15, from 1 to 15 — odd num-
bers. Then the even numbers were on the other side; that is, on the
port side of the ship.
Senator Smith. 6ne, tliree, five, seven, nine, and eleven were on
the starboard side or the port side ?
Mr. Lowe. One, three, five, seven, nine, eleven, thirteen, and
fifteen were on the starboard side, sir, and everything was absolutely
correct.
Senator Smith. Did you personally examine every lifeboat ?
Mr. Lowe. I did, sir.
Senator Smeth. And every collapsible ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; every collapsible as well, also. I should have
mentioned them, but those were the boats I mentioned. We do not
deem the collapsibles as boats.
Senator Smith. You do not deem them as Ufeboats ?
Mr. Lowe. These are the full lifeboats.
Senator Smith. That is, the numbers you have given ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; they are the outside boats, .the boats that
liang on the ship's side. Then there are two collapsibles on each side,
two on port and two starboard, and we examined them. I could not
quote from memory what we found in them, but we found 14 oars,
and, anyhow, a set and a half of oars on one set of rowlocks. That is,
if there were six rowlocks, there were nine. oars in case of emergency.
That is, if an oar got broke there was another extra oar to replace
that oar, and there were three spare ones — that is, one and one-half
sets.
If there were 12 oars in the boat, it was fully equipped. There
would be 18 oars altogether — 6 extras — and dippers and everything
else. Everything was absolutely correct; I will swear to that.
Senator Smith. You have detailed the equipment of a lifeboat as
prescribed by the British Board of Trade regulations, have you ?
Mr. Lowe. I can, if you wish me to.
Senator Smith. Have you done it already ?
it . ^ }>
TITANIC DISASTEB. 371
Mr. Lowe. Yes; pretty well.
Senator Smith. Have you included everythii^ ?
Mr. Lowe. There is a compass
Senator Smith. Any lights ?
Mr. Lowe. A h^ht, and oil to burn for eight hours; biscuits and
water. That is all that I can think of at present.
Senator Smith. All these things that you have mentioned are part
of the equipment demanded by the British Board of Trade ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir. We went around those boats. We arrived
there about noon on the 23d, m Belfast, and on the 24th we went
around everything, taking stock of everything on board the ship, and
also noting the condition of the things. We took the starboard life-
boats and the other junior officers took the port.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Lowe, tliis inspection that you made was
on the 23d and 24th ?
Mr. Lowe. On the 23d only, sir.
Senator Smfth. When did the Titanic leave Belfast for South-
ampton ?
Mr. Lowe. That is more than I can tell vou. We left Liverpool on
Tuesday; we arrived on a Wednesdav, ana we inspected the boat on a
Thursday. I think we left on the following Tuesday for Southampton*
No; we ran around the lough, and afterwards proceeded to South-
ampton.
Senator Smith. The 23d of March was on Saturday ?
Mr. Lowe. Saturday 9 Then we are a bit mixed. [Consulting
memorandum book.] It was the 26th that I left Liverpool, and I
joined the Titanic on the 27th. I think you will find that correct. I
distinctly remember now I received a telegram from the superintend-
ent; word to the effect that I was to report to the office at 9 o'clock
on the morning of the 26th.
Senator Smith. No ; you left Liverpool on the 26th.
Mr. Lowe. On the 26th; that is, the night of the 26th. You see
we had to call there for the ticket, and then we went over by night,
and we arrived in Belfast the next morning at noon.
Senator Smith. Now let us get it just as it is. You left Liverr
pool
Mr. Lowe. We left Liverpool at 10 o'clock p. m. on the 26th.
Senator Smith. And reached Belfast
Mr. Lowe. We arrived at Belfast at about noon on the 27th.
Senator Smith. And did you go aboard ship immediately ? -
Mr. Lowe. We went straight aboard, sir, and reported ourselves
to the chief officer.
Senator Smith. When did the trial tests begin ?
Mr. Lowe. I think it was Tuesday.
Senator Smith. The following Tuesday ?
Mx, Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. That would be April 2.
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir. I suppose it would be if you say so.
Senator Smith. Well, look it up yourself. You are testifjang. I
am not testifying.
Mr. Lowe. We did not get any special notice of these things
Senator Smith. I am not criticizmg you
Mr. Lowe. We have not started our voyage yet.
372 " TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I am not criticizing you. I simply want to know
when you first saw this ship.
Mr. Ix)WE. March 2 was Tuesday, sir.
Senator Smith. April 2, you mean. Let us get this just as you
want it to appear in the record. You left Liverpool on the 26th?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; at 10 o'clock p. m.
Senator Smith. And joined the Titanic at noon on the following
day, the 27th ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When were the trial tests made ?
Mr. Lowe. They were due, I think, to be made on the Monday,
but there was a bit of a breeze and we had to postpone it because of
the Iwreeze. It was squally, in fact.
Senator Smith. So the trial tests did not take place on April 1 ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Monday, that would be. They did not take place,
then?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. And they were postponed because there was a bit
of a breeze ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; because there was danger in getting them oflF the
wharf.
Senator Smith. Off the wharf ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Well, when did the test take place?
Mr. Lowe. It took plftce the following day.
Senator Smith. On Tuesday, AprU 2 T
Mr. Lowe. On Tuesday.
Senator Smith. In Belfast Lough ?
Mr. Lowe. In Belfast Lough; yes, sir. We steamed down. After
we had done a few turns and twists we steamed down two hours. I
really forget the names of the lightships now, because I don't know
that coast, but, roughly, we went out two hours on the outward pas-
sage and then it took us the same time, naturally, to come back
again. That means four hours' total steaming. We did a few extra
twists and turns and then came back again.
Senator Smith. How long did it take ?
Mr. Lowe. We left, I befieve, at 2 o'clock and we anchored some-
where about 6.30 that evening. Altogether, the twists and turns
took half an hour, and the steaming, maneuvering the ship, and
testing her, and all that. That is what I mean by twists ana turns.
Senator Smith. Exactly; that is what I understood. During this
test was her speed tested ?
Mr. Lowe. No. She was not really put to it. She has not been
put to it yet.
Senator Smith. And never will be ?
Mr. Lowe. Never will be.
Senator Smith. You do not know how fast she could have gone?
Mr. IjOwe. I reckon she could easily do 24 or 25 knots.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many boilers were working the
dav the tests were made?
Sir, IjOWE. No, sir; I do not, because that is outside of our sphere
altogether. We have nothing whatever to do with them. We have
our own business, and we attend to it. We look after it, and attend
to nobody else's.
t4 f9
TITANIC DISA8TBB. 373
Senator Smith. Have you any idea, yourself, of the speed that boat
made during the trial tnps — trial tests?
Mr. Lowe. I believe — but I am not sure — that it was about 20i or
21 . I do not know, of course. I wUl not guarantee that what I state
there is correct or true; but I state it to tne best of my ability, that
it was between 20^ and 21 knots, that that is what she made.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many revolutions it would
require to attain that speed ?
ilr. Ix)WE. No. We were working out a slip table, and we had not
Suite finished when she went down. All of us were on, working out a
ip table, how many turns of the engine it would require to do so
many knots, and all this, and it tapered down.
Senator Smith. That was not worked out by any one, so far as you
know?
Mr. Lowe. No; it was not.
Senator Smith. If it had been, would you have known it ?
Mr. Lowe. Certainly wo would, because it would be in the chart
room.
Senator Smith. When the maximum speed was obtained in the
trail tests, was the ship in the open sea ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, between the neads — I think it is Copeland Point,
or Copeland Head — between that and, I think — mind you, I do not
say that it is — I think it was Black Rock Lightship, somewhere be-
tween ; because I do not know the coast.
Senator Smith. I do not ask you to guess at anything; I just ask
if you know.
Mr. Lowe. I just state to the best of my knowledge.
Senator Smith. When the turns or circles were made were they
made in the open sea, or were they made inside ?
Mr. Lowe. Just inside, under the Copeland.
Senator Smith. Were there any turns except
Mr. Lowe. There was only the one turn made in the open sea and
that was when we were reversing our course, or when we were turning
to make the return journey.
Senator Smith. Did you see any of the officers or directors of the
White Star Line, or the International Co., aboard the Titonic when the
tests were being made ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I did not. Anyhow, I would not know them
ifldid.
Senator Smith. Then you did not see them, of course; you did not
know them, and could not tell ?
Mr. Lowe. Because I am a stranger.
Senator Smith. You did not know any of them ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, were any of them aboard ?
Did you hear that any of them were aboard in the trial tests ?
Mr. Lowe. I was told that Mr. Ismay was on board, and two or
three more, but I do not know who they were ; and some of Messrs.
Harland & WolfFs people.
Senator Smith. Tney were the builders ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Andrews aboard ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; he was on board.
Senator Smith. Did you see him ?
374 '' TITANIC DI8ABTEB.
Mr. Lowe. He was pointed out to me.
Senator Smith. Who was Mr. Andrews ?
Mr. Lowe. As far as I understand, the working head of Harland &
Wolff.
Senator Smith. The builders; he represented the builders of the
ship?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did he make the voyage with the ship from
Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did he survive the catastrophe 7
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator SMrrn. Was there any representative of the British Board
of Trade on the Titanic during these trial tests ?
Mr. Lowe. I can not say, sir; I do not know, because we had noth-
ing to do with it.
Senator Smith. You did not understand that there was, from any-
one f
Mr. Lowe. Even if there was, they would not come and tell me.
Senator Smith. Exactly; but I mean, did you understand that
there was an^ representative of the British Board of Trade aboard;
did you hear it from anyone ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. You must understand
Senator Smith. That is enough. I do not ask you to elaborate it.
After these trial tests, that took about four hours, where did the
ship go ?
Mr. Lowe. She anchored in Belfast Lough.
Senator Smith. And how long did you remain there?
Mr. Lowe. As near as I could tell, half an hour or three-quarters of
an hour.
Senator Smith. Then what happened ?
Mr. Lowe. We sent all workmen ashore bv tender to Belfast; and
then, after sending all the workmen ashore oy tender, we proceeded
on our way to Southampton.
Senator Smith. That is, these were the workmen of the Harland &
Wolff Co. ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then where did you go ?
Mr. Lowe. We went down to Southampton.
Senator Smith. When did you reach Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. We reached Southampton, I do not know just when.
Anvhow, it was in the night, sir. I do not know of what day.
Senator Smith. What night ?
Mr. Lowe. I could not tell you, sir. I do not remember.
Senator Smith. What night, with reference to your sailing from
Southampton; the night you sailed ?
Mr. Lowe. That would be about 36 hours — Tuesday, Wednesday —
Thursday night.
Senator Smith. You reached Southampton on Thursday nighty
about midnight?
Mr. Lowe. Yes,
Senator Smith. Did you anchor or did you go to the wharf ?
Mr. Lowe. We went right up to the wharf.
Senator Smith. Did you remain on the ship ?
t( -»^.««*^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 376
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were vou on duty that night ?
Mr. Lowe. I was on duty that day, sir: that is, from half past 9.
Senator Smith. In the morning » ^
Mr. Lowe. A. m. ; until half past 5 p. m.
Senator Smith. And you were not on duty when the boat reached
the wharf ?
Mr. Lowe. I was not on duty from the time the Titanic was taken
out. It was taken in tow at half past 9 that morning. I was below.
Senator Smith. This was Thursday night, midnight ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. When did the ship sail from Southampton for New
York?
Mr. Lowe. It sailed at noon on the 10th instant.
Senator Smith. Between Thursday, April 4, or Friday morning,
April 5, and Wednesday noon, April 10, were you aboard ship per-
forminff your duties %
Mr. Lowe. We are always on board performing our duties; that is,
when it is our watch on.
Senator Smith. Exactly. And you did your work while the boat
was at Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. During the time vou were doing your work, did you
have anjrthing to do with drilling t)ie men ?
Mr. Lowe. In what way, sir?
Senator Smith. Did you have fire drill or other practice while you
were at Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Wp had it once, but I really forget where.
Senator Smith. You had it once at Belfast, before leaving?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. I do not know, sir. We had it some-
where or other.
Senator Smith. Once ?
Mr. Lowe. Where I can not say.
Senator Smith. You can not say whether it was at Belfast or at
Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I can not remember.
Senator Smith. Was it at one or the other of these places ?
^Ir. Lowe. I do not know certainly.
Senator Smith. That is, it was not on the voyage?
Mr. Lowe. It was not after we left Southampton.
Senator Smith. It was not after you left Southampton. Of what
did this <lrill consist ?
Mr. Lowe. It consists of
Senator Smith. No; not what it '* consists" of. What did that
drill consist of?
Mr. Lowe. Well, you muster your boat's crew.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Lowe. And see that everything is all right, see that everything
is in ^oing order, and then you report to the officer that is going the
rounds, and then he reports again to the chief officer, and then the
chief officer reports to tne commander of the ship.
Senator Smith. In the performance of that service does each officer
have a station ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
876 TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Where was your station ?
Mr. Lowe. My station was Ao. 11 boat.
Senator Smith. Which side of the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. That would be the starboard side.
Senator Smith. What other officers were on the starboard side ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the other officers at that time ?
Mr. Lowe. I was a total strahger in the ship and also to the run.
I was a stranger to everybody on board.
Senator Smith. Is that the reason why you are unable to tell who
the officers were on the starboard side at their respective stations ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir. I suppose it wiU have something
to do with it.
Senator Smith. Are you able to say that the officers wore at their
respective stations i
Mr. Lowe. When, sir?
Senator Smith. At the time of this drill or inspection i
Mr. Ix)WE. Certainly they were, sir.
Senator Smith. What was done at that drill ? Were any of the
lifeboats lowered i
Mr. Lowe. I was lowered away and sent around the dock — no, let
me see, now. This was at Southampton ?
Senator Smith. At Southampton.
Mr. Lowe. After the general muster at 8.80 — on the 10th that
was — we manned two boats, Mr. Moody, the sixth officer, and myself.
Senator Smith. On which side of the ship ?
Mr. IjOWE. On the starboard side, because you must remember
that we were laying alongside of a wharf, now.
Senator Smith. Exactlv. I wanted you to sav that.
Mr. Lowe. And we were sent away in two boats, with two crews,
naturally, and we turned around the dock in a row and then came
back and got hoisted up.
Senator Smith. About how long were you gone ?
Mr. Ix)we. I should say 20 minutes to a half an hour.
Senator Smith. What else was done ? Did that constitute the
practice, or drill?
Mr. Lowe. There is not only practice in the rowing of the boats,
but there is also practice in the lowering away and clearing.
Senator Smith. And altogether, it took about half an hour?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. Yes; it would take about half an hour, hoist-
ing and lowering.
Senator Smith. What else was done that day?
Mr. IjOWE. We sailed, you know, and it was about 9 oVlock in the
morning, now.
Senator Smith. Yes; all right.
Mr. Lowe. And we have got lots of other things to do.
Senator Smith. Exactly. That was all that the drill consisted of ?
Mr. Lowe. We were lowered down in the boats, with a boat's
crew. The boats were manned, and we rowed around a couple of
turns, and then came back and were hoisted up and had breakfast,
and then went about our duties.
Senator Smith. Now, will you answer me, please? Your drill or
practice consisted of lowering two lifeboats on the starboard side
and rowing about in them and returning them to position, which
took, altogether, about half an hour ?
1 1 . ^^,^ f f
TITANIC DISASTER. 377
Mr. Ix)WE. Half an hour; quite correct, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, is that correct ?
Mr. Lowe. Quite.
Senator Smith. Were there any other boats, lifeboats or collapsible
boats, lowered on the starboard side that morning ?
Mr. Lowe. No; only the two.
Senator Smith. And there were no boats lowered on the port sicje ?
Mr. Lowe. There could not be.
Senator Smith. That was the wharf side ?
Mr. Lowe. You would lower them on the wharf on that side.
Senator Smith. So that the drill consisted in doing what you have
described \
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe, if I correctly understood you, no other
drill took place after that morning — the Titanic departing about
midday — until the accident happened 1
Mr. Lowe. No drill took place from the time of departure until
the time of the disaster.
Senator Smith. Are you able to say definitely now that no fire
drill took place — no alarm and no drill that required the presence of
each man at his station — during the voyage ?
Mr. Lowe. Fire drill did take place, and it always does take place.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Lowe. When we have boat drill.
Senator Smith. When do you have boat drill ?
Mr. Lowe. When we have boat drill.
Senator Smith. When you have it?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Would you call tliis lowering of two lifeboats at
Southampton boat drill ?
Mr. Lowe. No; it was previous to that, sir. There are so many
hoses on each deck, and the water service is on, and the hoses are
manned by the men, and the commander sends word along, ''That
will do for fire exercise," and then we switch off the water.
Senator Smith. Are vou quite sure such an exercise took place
before the boat reached Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Let me see. I may be confusing her with some of the
other ships.
Senator Smith. You are testifying. I want the record to sho^
iw^hat you say about it.
Mr. Lowe. We will annul that, sir, because I am not sure.
Senator Smith. You may annul it, but I am not going to. I want
you to answer and give your best judgment.
Mr. Lowe. I am here and doing my best to help you, and I do not
remember.
Senator Smith. And you wish it to appear that you do not remem-
ber whether that took place before reaching Southampton? I do
not want to embarrass you, Mr. Lowe, at all, and I will not pursue it
any further. I just want to know whether we understand one
another.
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir. I do not remember anything defi-
nite on the subject.
Senator Smith. But you do remember, and have so stated, that
there was no drill ?
378 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. Lowe. No; no drill after we left Southampton.
Senator Smith. No drill after you left Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. No; oh, no.
Senator Smith. Were these officers strangers to one another,
practically all of them ?
Mr. Lowe. No; the most of them had met each other before.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whether they had in the main
come from the same ship, or from various ships ?
Mr. Lowe. Some of tnem came from the same ship, but which I
do not know. Some of them came from the Oceanic,
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the crew were strangers to
one another, in the main ?
Mr. Lowe. The crew, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lowe. No; I do not know anything about them.
Senator Smith. What was the weather and the condition of the
sea between Belfast and Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Fine^lear weather, smooth sea, and gentle breeze.
Senator Smith. What was the weather between Southampton and
the scene of this accident t
Mr. Lowe. Fine, clear weather; gentle to moderate breeze and sea.
Senator Smith. What wae the temperature between Southampton
and the place of the accident ?
Mr. Lowe. The temperature, sir ?
Senator Smith. Exactly. Do you know whether it was cold, or
whether it was warm ? Was it warm when you left Southampton ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; it was nice weather. I should say it would be
about 48.
Senator Smith. Above zero ?
Mr. Lowe. Forty-eight degrees Fahrenheit.
Senator Smith. Did it grow colder as you proceeded on your
journey ?
Mr. Lowe. It did not get colder — I do not know how to put
that — to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. How cold was it on Sunday afternoon ?
Mr. Lowe. vSunday afternoon it was ordinarily normal; about 48.
Senator Smith. How was it Sunday evening?
Mr. Lowe. Sunday evening it was pretty much the same; it could
not have been less than 45.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the second officer testify ?
Mr. Lowe. I did, sir; part of it.
Senator Smith. Did you hear him say that it was about 37 on
Sunday evening ?
Mr. Lowe. I went below at 8 o'clock, and I know nothing about
anything that happened after 8 o'clock. I was in bed.
Senator Smith. Did vou know that your ship was off the Grand
Banks of Newfoundland on Sunday afternoon and evening?
Mr. Ix)WE. Yes; I knew where she was, as far as that goes; but I
never hatl crossed the Atlantic before.
Senator Smith. Did the fact that you were off the Grand Banks of
Newfoundland interest you at all ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; not a bit.
Senator Smith. Did you know that that was the region of the ice-
bergs and the field ice ?
It . ^ ^ f»
TITANIC DISASTBE. 379
Mr. Lowe. Well, you must understand that I had never been there
before.
Senator Smith. You had certainly heard about it ?
Mr. Lowe. I can not say that I had, sir.
Senator Smith. You never heard about ice in the vicinity of New-
foundland ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard about ice anywhere t
Mr. Lowe. Yes; oflf Cape Horn.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen an iceburg or a growler ?
Mr. Lowe. I have seen icebergs, but I have never heard them
defined as closely as they have been here during the last few days.
Senator Smith. Where did you see them ?
Mr. Lowe. I have seen them down south.
Senator Smith. How far south ?
Mr. Lowe. Off Cape Horn and down that way.
Senator Smith. Do you know where they are supposed to come
from?
* Mr. Lowe. I suppose from the south polar re^ons.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see any icebergs m the South Atlantic?
Mr. Lows. No; I can not say that I have seen them in the South
Atlantic.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see an iceberg except off Cape Horn ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. That is the only^ one I saw until daybreak on
the Monday morning.
Senator Smith, ^ter the accident ?
Mr. Lowe. After the accident.
Senator Smith. How many did you see then ?
Mr. Lowe. I saw quite a few of them, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Lowe. I really could not tell you that. I did not count them,
but I should say anvwhere up to 20.
Senator Smith. How close were they ? How close was the closest
one; I mean how close to you, or how close were you to the icebergs ?
Mr. Lowe. I should say 4 to 5 miles.
Senator Smith. In what direction ?
Mr. Lowe. All around.
Senator Smith. In the course of the Titanicf
Mr. Lowe. What do you mean? In the course that wo were
steering before we struck ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lowe. WeD, yes; they must have been in her way if they were
all along the horizon.
Senator Smith. How lar^e was the largest one you saw ?
Mr. Lowe. Of course, it is only an approximation, sir, because we
did not go up to them.
Senator Smith. I did not ask you that. Just give us your best
judCTtient.
Mr. Lowe. I should say that the largest one was about, say, 100
feet high above water.
Senator Smith. Above the water's edge ?
Mr. Lowe. Above the water.
Senator Smith. And that was about 45 miles away, was it, from
you ? I thought you said 45.
380 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lowe. Four to five, I said.
Senator Smith. How far could you see an iceberg above the water
on a clear morning?
Mr. Lowe. It depends on your height above the water.
Senator Smith. Well, where would you say these icebergs were
with reference to your point of observation ?
Mr. Lowe. What distance off they were, at my height?
Senator Smith. Exactly.
Mr. Lowe. Four to five.
Senator Smith. What do vou mean by four to five. ?
Mr. Lowe. Between 4 and 5 miles distant.
Senator Smith. That is, beteween 4 and 5 miles away?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were they all witliin a range of 4 or 6 miles ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; all within a radius, at the outside, of 6 miles.
Senator Smith. Could you, from what you saw of them, tell in
what direction thejr were moving ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Whether from the north or from the south?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I could not.
Senator Smith. How close did you come to an iceberg yourself ?
I do not mean the one that collided with the ship, but after you w^ere
in the lifeboat or on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Lowe. The nearest I got, I suppose, would be 3 miles.
Senator Smith. What were the sizes of the other icebergs ?
Mr. Lowe. Anything I should say, averaging from 20 feet in
height up to 100 feet in height. That is, above water.
Senator Smith. Have vou ever heard, or do you know of your own
knowledge, how much of an ordinary icebei^ is supposed to be sub-
merged ?
^Ir. Lowe. Yes; there is one-eighth supposed to be above water
and seven-eighths below water.
Senator Smith. Then, if the iceberg you saw Monday morning was
100 feet above the water, it would be 700 feet below the water?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir: quite that.
Senator Smith. Is tnat recognized ?
Mr. Lowe. That is what I learned. I suppose it is right.
Senator Smith. Where did 3rou learn that «
Mr. Lowe. At school. I think it will turn out to be about that if
you test it.
Senator Smith. Did you learn at school where these icebergs were
supposed to come from ?
Mr. Lowe. There are only two places for them to come from.
Senator Smith. Name them.
Mr. Lowe. That is from the north pole and the south pole, from
the polar regions.
Senator Smith. They are supposed to come from the arctic regions t
Mr. Lowe. Yes ; the arctic regions.
Senator Smith. Do you know what an iceberg is composed of ?
Mr. Lowe. Ice, I suppose, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard of an iceberg being composed
not only of ice but of rock and earth and other substances ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; never.
it f}
TITANIC DISASTER. 381
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony of your fellow officer,
Boxhall ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not hear him describe what composed an
iceberg?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But you labor under the impression that they are
composed entirely of ice ?
Mr. Lowe. Absolutely, sir.
Senator Smith. You said that you helped make up the chart record,
did you not?
Mr. Lowe. Chart record ?
Senator Smith. Yes; you and vour fellow officers worked out the
details?
Mr. Lowe. We worked out the positions, sir; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The positions on the chart ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; we do not use a chart. If we wish to place the
Eosition on a chart so that we may know the locaUty we may do so,
ecause we have charts there.
Senator Smith. You have them there for that purpose ?
Mr. Lowe. But we work them out by tables and other things —
books.
Senator Smith. By these tables you work out the ship's position ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From the astronomical observations ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the course of the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; we work out the course, too.
Senator Smith. Do you determine from these observations
whether the ship is on its course ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any part in determining the course
and position of the Titanic on Sundfay afternoon and evening ?
Mr. Ix)WE. I worked the course from noon to what we call the
'' corner"; that is, 42 north, 47 west. I really forget the course now.
It is 60® 33V west — that is as near as I can remember — and 162
miles to the corner.
Senator Smith. From those data are you able to sav whether the
ship was on its true course at the time of the collision ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir. I- do not know where she was
steaming at the time of the collision. I was in bed.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the ship's position was at the
time of the collision ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I know what her position was.
Senator Smith. State it.
Mr. Lowe (referring to book). Latitude 41° 46' north and 50° 13'
west longitude.
Senator Smith. From the position of the ship at the point stated.
are vou able to sajr whether she was on her true course at that time i
Mr. Lowe. Which course is that ? To which course do you refer 1
Senator Smith. I refer to the course the ship was taking, which I
understand is a recognized course, or lane, and well understood by
vc^el men, and a part of the regulations of your company.
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; that is the track.
882 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith, Now answer my previous question.
Mr. Lowe. You can easily tell, sir, whether she was on the track
or not.
Senator Smith. I want you to tell me.
Mr. Lowe. I can easily tell.
Senator Smith. Do it.
Mr. Lowe. I can not without anything, sir; I must have books.
Senator Smith. Have you got a chart, so that you can ?
Mr. Lowe. I have got nothing.
Senator Smith. You say ''track'*?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; track.
Senator Smith. Are those tracks well understood by mariners,
vessel men ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; everybody knows them, and we all try to go
along that track.
Senator Smith. How many tracks are there that are recognized by
your company ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know.
Senator Smith. In the north Atlantic ?
Mr. Lowe. I am a stranger in this part.
Senator Smith. What is that ?
Mr. Lowe. You must remember this is my first voyage across here.
Senator Smith. I understand.
Mr. Lowe. And I do not know.
Senator Smith. I am not looking for any more information than
you have, but I would hke to know if you know whether there is a
north track and a south track ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; there are two tracks, a north track and a
south track.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether ships going from
Southampton to New York on this White Star Line are supposed to
take the north track or the south track ?
Mr. Lowe. That is left to the commander, sir.
Senator Smith. And you do not know ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether upon this voyage the Titanic
took the north track or the south track ?
Mr. Lowe. We can tell if you have a track chart.
Senator Smith. I am going to have you work that out, but I
wanted to clear up any confusion over these two tracks. As I under-
stand it, through the north Atlantic there is a north track, or lane,
or route, from Southampton to New York ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And there is a south track, or lane, or route, from
New York to Southampton ?
Mr. Tx)WE. It is the same track as the one the other way.
Senator Smith. What I want to know is whether this snip was on
the north track or the south track, and I will ask you to figure that
out a little later, when you get the chart.
Mr. IjOWE. I think she was on the north track.
Senator Smith. What makes you think so ?
Mr. Ix)WE. By the general run of things. But, anyhow, we can
find that out.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty on Sunday evening the night of
the accident ?
t < 9 J
TITANIC DISASTER. 383
Mr. Lowe. I was on duty on Sunday evening, sir, from 6 p. m. to
8 p. m., and at 8 p. m. I went below.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty again that night, to the time of
the accident ?
Mr. Lowe. I was not, sir.
Senator Smith. And where were you assigned; where was your
station during those two hours, from 6 to 8 o'clock ?
Mr. Lowe. From 6 to 8 I was busy working out this slip table as I
told you before, and doing various odds and ends and working a dead-
reckoning position for 8 o'clock p. m. to hand in to the captain, or the
commander of the ship.
Senator Smith. What would that indicate ?
Mr. Lowe. That was to indicate the position of the ship at that
time, 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the position of the ship was at
8 o'clock ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I do not. I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Did you make a report to the captain ?
Mr. Lowe. I handed him the slip report.
Senator Smith. Did you hand it to him personally ?
Mr. Lowe. On his chart-room table.
Senator Smith. Did you call hispersonal attention to it ?
Mr. Lowe. No; we never do. We simply put the slip on the table ;
put a paper weight or something on it, ana he comes in and sees it. It
IS nothing of any great importance.
Senator Smith. What did you do it for ?
Mr. Lowe. It has alwavs been done, so that the position of the ship
inijzht be filled in the night order book.
Senator Smith. Does not that constitute a part of the history of
that voyage and become a part of the log ?
Mr. Lowe. I am not saymg it was not important for this one voy-
age. I am saying that in the general run of things it is not of any
importance.
Senator Smith. That is, if there is no accident ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; because there are thousands of tilings done
previously
Senator Smith (interposing). But in the event of an accident?
Mr. Lowe. Oh, yes; it would play an important part then.
Senator Smith. You are not able to give the position of this ship
at 8 o'clock Sunday evening ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I do not remember.
Senator SMrrn. You then went below, after you delivered that ?
Mr. Lowe. I went to bed at 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe, you understand, of course, that if you
could give the exact position of that ship at 8 o'clock, with the
figures that you have just given of its exact position at the time of
the collision, the speed of the ship could be easily ascretained, could
it not, between those two points ?
Mr. Lowe. Quite.
Senator Smith. You see what I want it for. I want you to think
hard and see if you can give that ship's position at 8 o'clock. How
did you get the position of that ship ? You say it was by dead reck-
oning. How did you get it ?
Mr. Lowe. I got it by the chronometer.
884 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. Did you first ascertain the speed of the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. We have a fair idea of what she is doing.
Senator Smith. No; before you could obtain this position, did you
first have to ascertain the speed of the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. You are speaking of the 8 o'clock position, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. IjOWe. Her speed from noon until we turned the comer was
just a fraction under 21 knots.
Senator Smith. You say you took your watch at 6 o'clock Sunday
night?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Do not misunderstand me. You went on duty
from 6 o'clock to 8 o'clock that night ?
Mr. Lowe. Oh, yes; that is quite right, sir.
Senator Smith. When were you on duty before that, on Sunday ?
Mr. Lowe. From noon until 4 p. m.
Senator Smith. And off for two hours ?
Mr. Lowe. Off for two hours, yes; and then on again.
Senator Smith. Yoi. have fixed the position, or did fix the position,
of that ship at 8 o'clock p. m. ?
Mr. Lowe. At 8 p. m. ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did report to the captain of the ship *?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What speed did you use in getting the 8 p. m.
position ?
Mr. Lowe. I used the speed for the position at 8 o'clock, and got
it by dividing the distance from noon to the corner by the time that
had elapsed from noon until the time we were at the comer.
Senator Smith. Were you able to fix the position accurately by
taking the speed that was made by that ship at noon ?
Mr. Lowe. Within a mile or two. ^
Senator Smith. Why did you not take the revolutions at 8 p. m. ?
Mr. Lowe. Why should we take the revolutions?
Senator Smith. In order to be accurate.
Mr. Lowe. Do you mean to say you would be more accurate than
I am?
Senator Smith. You are the man that is making the statement.
I want to know whether you fixed the position of that ship at 8 o'clock
Sunday night upon the speed of the snip at noon on Sunday or upon
the speed of the ship at the time you gave her position.
Mr. Lowe. You may be out just as much or more by the revolu-
tions as I am by the hour — that is, by dead reckoning, the way I
ascertained the position of the ship at 8 p. m.
Senator Smith. In order to ascertain the ship's position accurately
at 8 p. m. you must know her speed at 8 p. m., must you not ?
Mr. Lowe. Her speed at 8 p. m. ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lowe. If you take the average speed from 12 to 6 — that is
giving her a run of six hours — she will not jump up in two hours, from
12 to 6 o'clock, from that average speed. You have six hours there
to take a mean on.
Senator Smith. Suppose the captain of your ship between the hours
of 4 and 6 o'clock on Sunday, when you w0re oflF duty, had, because of
information which had come to him from the steamship Oalifomian^
(t ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 386
that he was in the vicinity of icebergs, ordered the ship to slow down,
then would your point oi figuring be accurate ?
Mr. Lowe. He ordered the ship to slow down, you say ?
Senator Smith. No. I am not going to have you get confused. I
will have the reporter read that question.
The reporter read the question, as follows:
Suppose the captain of your ship, between the hours of 4 and 6 o'clock on Sunday,
when you were on duty, had, because of information which had come to him from the
steamship Caltfomian that he was in the vicinity of icebeigs, ordered the ship to slow
down, then would your point of figuring be accurate?
Mr. Lowe. The junior oflBlcer that I relieved would have passed on
the word to me before I reheved him, before I reUeved the ship.
Senator Smith. But you had means, had you not, of ascertaining
definitely how fast the ship was going ?
Mr. Lowe. In what way, sir? We have the log
Senator Smith (interposing) . Between 6 and 8 o'clock.
Mr. Lowe. We have the log.
Senator Smith. I am not finding fault with you. Perhaps you
were entirely right about it when you took the average speed of this
ship that day or the maximum speed ; but inasmuch as you said she
never had attained her maximum speed
Mr. Lowe (interrupting). No, sir; she never had.
Senator Smith. And inasmuch as vou did not take the revolutions,
I wondered whether you were strictly accurate when you defined the
ship's position at 8 o clock.
Mr. Lowe. As I told you, sir, we were working at our sUp table,
and that is a table based upon so many revolutions of engines and so
much per cent sUp, and you work that out, and that gives you so many
miles per hour. This table extended from the rate of 30 revolutions
a minute to the rate of 85 and from a percentage of 10 to 40 per cent
slip; that is, minus. We were working it all out, and of course it was
not finished.
Senator Smith. Let us see if we understand one another.
The position of the ship at 8 o'clock could be ascertained by
astronomical observations and the speed the ship was going. Is
that ri^ht ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; you do not really need that. You only need
that for dead-reckoning position.
Senatpr Smith. That is what you said you gave.
Mr. Lowe. Yes; but we are speaking of observations now. Obser-
vations and dead reckonings are very different.
Senator Smith. If you nad your report here, the report you made
to the captain, I would not be so particular about this, becauBe I
would accept your report, as the captain probably accepted it if
you heard no complaint about it; but I have not got the report.
The report is not available. Therefore, if you will tell just how
you got it — or if you have told it all, I will desist. I will not press
it any further.
Mr. Lowe. This is the only figuring that is required to get the
speed [handing the chairman a paper].
Senator Smith. And you are aole to say that the speed at that
time was 21 knots?
4047&— FT 5—12 8
386 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lowe. Twenty-one knots or under; it was really 20.95, about.
If the speed had been increased or reduced during the interval when
I was on duty, I would have been informed of it.
Senator Smith. It would have been very important that you
should be informed of it ?
Mr. Lowe. We are informed of all. Wlierever there is an altering
of the course, we say, ''She is doing so and so, and so and so." "All
right.'' Then you are relieved.
Senator Smith. I want to take you back just a moment to your
statement that ordinarily that report would not be very valuable.
Mr. Lowe. What report is not; about altering the speed ?
Senator Smith. No; about this 8 o'clock report you made.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; under ordinary circumstances it would not be
important.
Senator Smith. But to provide accurate information, should acci-
dent arise, that is part of the regulations and part of the duty ?
Mr. Lowe. No. It is the White Star routine. The White Star
Co. have regulations, just the same, in fact, as the Navy, and we all
know exactly what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and where to
do it. Everybody knows his business, and they do it. There is no
hitch in anything.
Senator SMrrn. Did you ever see the captain again after that
oiffht at 8 o'clock 1
• Mr. Lowe. The last time I saw the captain was just after I got
out of bed.
Senator Smith. What time ?
Mx. Lowe. I do not know, sir, what time, but as near as I could
judge it would be just before 12.
Senator SMrrn. After the accident ?
Mr. Lowe. It must have been after the accident, because the im-
pact did not waken me.
Senator Smith. What time did you retire ?
Mr. LowB. I went to bed at about anywhere between a quarter
past 8 and half past 8.
Senator Smith. Are you a temperate man?
Mr. Lowe. I am, sir. I never touched it in my life. I am an
abstainer.
Senator Smith. I am very glad to have you say that.
Mr. Lowe. I say it, sir, without fear of contradiction.
Senator Smith. I am not contradicting you, and I congratulate you
upon it; but so many stories have been circulated; one nas just been
passed up to me now, from a reputable man, who says it was reported
that you were drinking that nignt.
Mr. Lowe. Me, sir ?
Senator SiaTH. That is the reason I asked the question.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; this [indicating a glass of water] is the strongest
drink I ever take.
Senator Smith. That there might not be any misunderstanding
about it, I asked that question, x ou retired at 8 o'clock that night?
Mr. Lowe. I was supposed to retire.
Senator SMrra. You retired from your duty i
Mr. Lowe. I was relieved from the ship at 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Where was your room ?
Mr. Lowe. My room ?
*' TITANIC " DISASTER. 387
Senator Smith. What deck ?
Mr. Lowe. It was on the boat deck.
Senator Smith. The upper deck ? Did it have a number ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; it is labeled "Fifth officer.'^ There [indicating]
is a plan that I drew. This [indicating] is the bridge here. That
[indicating] is the wheelhouse, and this [indicating] is our chart room,
and this [mdicating] is the captain's apartment, and this [indicating]
is where I Uved, where it says Fifth officer.''
Senator Smith. What other officer was there ?
Mr. Lowe. There were the chief officer and the first officer — the
first, second, and third and sixth officers on that side. Then on the
opposite side of the ship — that is, the starboard side — the captain
lived and the fourth officer, namely, Mr. Boxhall.
Senator Smith. Mr. LightoUer was here [indicating] ?
Mr. Lowe. I will write their names opposite, if you wish it.
Senator Smith. Just put their names on this drawing.
The witness compUed with the chairman's request.
Senator Smith. What time did you go to bed that Sunday night ?
Mr. Lowe. I went between 8.15 and 8.30.
Senator Smith. What time were you awakened ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. I was awakened by hearing voices, and
I thought it was verv strange, and somehow they woke me up and I
realized there must be something the matter; so I looked out and I
saw a lot of people around, and I jumped up and got dressed and went
up on deck.
Senator Smith. What did you find when you got up there ?
Mr. Lowe. I found that aU the passengers were wearing belts.
Senator Smith. Life belts ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; I also found that they were busy getting the
boats ready to go overboard.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Lowe. I met somebody, and they said she had struck an ice-
berg, and I could feel by my feet that there was something wrong.
^nator Smith. What — a Usting ?
Mr. Lowe. No. I heard that term applied yesterday, and it is
wrong. It is not Usting; it is tipping.
Senator Smith. I suppose he meant tipping when he said Ksting;
but did she tip ?
Mr. Lowe. This is sideways [indicatrug].
Senator Smith. Could you feel her tip sideways ?
Mr. Lowe. No; there was no listing. Listing is the side motion
and tipping is the end motion. She was by the bow; she was very
much oy the bow. She had a grade downmll; a grade like that [in-
dicating].
Senator Smith. The bow. you say, was down ?
Ifr. Lowe. Down, and tne stem was up.
Senator Smith. Could you tell at about what angle she was at that
time?
Mr. Lowe. Do you want the perpendicular angle or the horizontal
, angle?
Senator Smith. The horizontal angle.
Mr. Lowe. I should say she was about 12** to 15** by the head.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the impact?
388 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not feel the impact ?
Mr. Lowe. I never felt anything.
Senator Smith. You do not know how long that was ?
Mr. Lowe. I have not the s%htest idea of the time, sir, because
I had Greenwich time on me, and I did not look at my watch.
Senator Smith. You were not aroused from yoiu* slumber by
anvone ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. Mr. Boxhall, the fourth officer, told me that
he told me that we had struck an iceberg, but I do not remember it.
Senator Smith. You do not remember nis telling you that ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not remember his telUng me that.
Senator Smith. That is, while you were
Mr. Lowe. It must have been while I was alseep. You must
remember that we do not have any too much sleep and therefore when
we sleep we die.
Senator Smith. Now, what did you do after you went out on the
deck and ascertained the position of the ship in the water, and saw
what had occurred ?
Mr. Lowe. I first of all went and got my revolver.
Senator SMrrn. What for?
Mr. Lowe. Well, sir; you never know when you will need it.
Senator Smith. All right; go ahead.
Mr. Lowe. Then I went and helped everybody all around. Let us
see; I crossed over to the starboard side. 1 lowered away. The first
boat I helped to lower was No. 5, starboard boat. I lowered that boat
away
Senator Smith. You lowered No. 5 boat?
Mr. Lowe. Yes. That is, under the orders of Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Murdock assist you ?
Mr. Lowe. No; he was the senior officer; I was the junior.
Senator Smith. On that side of the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was he superintending ?
Mr. Lowe. He was superintending that deck.
Senator Smith. The loading ?
Mr. Lowe. He was in charge of everything there.
Senator Smith. The loading and the lowering of the lifeboats ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many officers or men were there to assist you
with lifeboat No. 5 ?
Mr. Lowe. I could not very well answer that; but I should say that
there were about 6. No; more than 6; there must have been more
than 6. There were about 10, I should say.
Senator Smith. All around the station ?
Mr. Lowe. It takes 2 at each winch. Then there were 2 jumped
in each boat. Then there were some clearing the falls — that is, the
ropes — and you can roughly estimate it at 10 men.
Senator Smith. Who got into the boat, do you know ?
Mr. Lowe. How do you mean ?
Senator Smith. You say two got into the boat ? Who were the two 1
Mr. Lowe. Oh, I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the men who assisted you in
lowering that lifeboat ?
i t «. . ...^ f y
TITANIO DISASTBB. 389
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I do not, by name. But there is a man here,
and had he not been here I should not have known that I had ordered
Mr. Ismay away from the boat.
Senator Smith. Did you order Mr. Ismay away from the boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I did, sir.
Senator SMrrn. What did you say to him ?
Mr. Lowe. This was on the starboard side. I don't know his name.
but I know him by sight. He is a steward. He spoke to me on board
the Carpaihia. He asked me if I knew what I had said to Mr. Ismay.
I said, "I don't know Mr. Ismay." ^' Well," he said, 'Vou used very,
very strong lanmiagewith him." I said, "Did I?" I said, "I can
not help it if I did." He said, "Yes, you did," and he repeated the
ixrords. If you wish me to repeat them I will do so; if you do not,
I will not.
Senator SMrrn. I will first ask you this: What was the occasion
for vour using this harsh language to Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Lowe. The occasion for using the language I did was because
Mr. Ismay was overanxious and he was gettmg a trifle excited. He
said, "Lower awayl Lower away! Lower away! Lower away!"
I said — ^well, let it be
Mr. IsMAT. Give us what jrou said.
Mr. Lowe. The chairman is examining me.
Senator SMrrn. Mr. Ismay, you asked the witness to give the lan-
guage?
i&. IsMAT. I have no objection to his giving it. It was not very
parliamentary.
Senator SMrrn. If the language is inappropriate
Mr. Lo'^ E. There is only one word that might be so considered.
Mr. IsMAT. May I suggest that it be put on a piece of paper and
given to you, Mr. CKairman, and you decide.
Senator Smith. All right; write it down.
The witness, Mr. Lowe, wrote something on a piece of paper and
handed it to the chairman.
Senator SMrrn. You may put that into the record. You said
you
Mr. Lowe. You wish me to repeat it, sir ?
Senator Smith. You uttered this to Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; that was in the heat of the moment.
Senator Smtth. What was the occasion of it; because of his excite-
ment, because of his anxiety ?
Mr. Lowe. Because he was, in a way, interfering with my duties,
and also, of course, he only did this because he was anxious to get the
people away and also to help me.
Senator SMrrn. What did you say to him ?
Mr. Lowe. Do you want me to repeat that statement ?
Senator SMrrn. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lowe. I told him, ^'If you will get to hell out of that I shall be
able to do something."
Senator SMrrn. What repl v did he make ?
Mr. Lowe. He did not make any reply. I said, * * Do you want me
to lower away quickly?" I said, **iou will have me drown the
whole lot of them. " 1 was on the floor myself lowering away.
Senator Smith. You were on the boat deck, standing on the deck
of the boat, the upper deck; and where did he stand ?
390 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lowe. He was at the ship's side, like this [indicating]. This
is the ship — he was hanging on the davit like this [indicating]. He
said, ** Lower away, lower away, lower away," and I was slacking
away just here at nis feet [indicating].
Senator Smith. The boat was being lowered ?
Mr. IjOWE. I was lowering away the boat myself, personally.
Senator Smith. I want you to say what he did after you said this
to him ?
Mr. Lowe. He walked away; and then he went to No. 3 boat.
Senator Smith. Alongside of yours ?
Mr. Lowe. The next boat forward of mine; that is, on the same
side; and I think he went ahead there on his own hook, getting things
ready there, to the best of his ability.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Lowe, how many people were there in
the first lifeboat vou lowered ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir, because I was not the boss there.
Mr. Murdock was running the show.
Senator Smith. Was it full ?
Mr. Lowe. Well, roughly, I should say around 50.
Senator Smith. Around 50 in the first lifeboat that you lowered ?
Mr. IjOWE. Yes; roughly. I do not know, sir. You must under-
stand that I did not count them, or anything of that sort.
Senator Smith. Tell how many men were in that lifeboat, if
you can ?
Mr. Lowe. I have not the remotest idea, sir.
Senator Smith. Were they half men and half women ?
Mr. Lowe. Half men, sir? No. I should sav — well, I do not
know. I would say about 1 0.
Senator Smith. About 10 men! •
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many men were put into that boat for the
purpose of manning her ?
Mr. Lowe. I think there were five.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. \ ou must remember, it was no time to
remember faces and names.
Senator Smith. I am not criticizing you. I am trying to ascertain
what you know about it. Were there any officers among those five
men?
Mr. Lowe. Mr. Pitman went in either No. 5 or No. 3, but which I
do not remember. I heard Mr. Murdock order him to the boat.
Senator Smith. But which one you do not recall ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know whicn, but either of them.
Senator Smith. You do not know if there was any other oflicer
in No. 5 ?
Mr. Lowe. There were only four officers saved, altogether.
Senator Smith. I am not asking that. I asked if there were any
officers aside from the possibility of Mr. Pitman being in there, that
you could recall ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any male passengers ?
Mr. Lowe. I think there were a few, because we could not get any
more women.
Senator Smith. You could not get any more women in the first
lifeboat ?
i i . ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 391
Mr. Lowe. I do not know whether this was the first Ufeboat, sir.
Senator Smith. It was the first one you lowered ?
Mr. Lowe. The first I helped to launch.
Senator Smith. On your side of the boat ?
Mr. Lowe. On the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Yes; that is the first one that was lowered on the
starboard side ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes. I stated that it was the first one that I helped
to put over. I did not sav it was the first, at all.
Senator Smith. I am asking you about that boat, and I am asking
you whether there were any male passengers in that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. There may have been, but I do not
know. If there were, there were very, very few: and I do not know
ivhether it was that boat or No. 3 that we could not get any more
^"omen and we filled it up with men. It was one of the two.
Senator Smith. You are unable to tell how many men were in the
boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I am unable to tell — that is, with any degree of accu-
racy— how many people, whether they were male or female, were in
any of the boats — that is, on that side of the ship.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the men or women in that
boat bv name ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen any of them since the accident
occurred ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; unless, as I stated, it was Mr. Pitman.
Senator Smith. Did you have any conversation with Mrs. Douglas,
of Minneapolis, aboard the Carpathiaf
Mr. Lowe. Mrs. Douglas 1 I do not know her.
Sentaor Smith. Or ^m, Ryerson ? /
Mr. Lowe. I have lots of addresses here; but thev are addresses
of people who were in my boat; I do not know about anybody else's
boats.
Senator Smith. Have you a list of the persons who were in your
boatt
Mr. Lowe. I have some of them, sir.
Senator Smith. Let us see how manv you have.
Mr. Lowe. It would be a pretty big book, to take all.
Senator Smith. It will take only about fifty, in the first boat i
Mr. Lowe. Not in the first boat, sir; in my boat, I said.
Senator Smith. In the boat you were in ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. In your life boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. I will get to that in a moment. When this first
lifeboat, No. 5, was lowered; the gear and evervthing worked all
right, did it?
Mr. Lowe. Everything went all right, sir, and it could not have
been worked better.
Senator Smith. And it was lowered with perfect safety ?
Mr. Lowe. With perfect safety. That was the reason I spoke to
Mr. Ismay.
Senator Smith. When the boats and the gear are new and have
been properly tested and work as they should, how many persons vrill
392 TITANIC DISASTER.
a lifeboat the size of No. 5 hold safely, on a clear night and with no
sea?
Mr. Lowe. Do you mean to ask what she would hold in the water
or what wotdd she hold lowering ?
Senator Smith. No ; I want you to tell me how many she will hold
lowering.
Mr. Lowe. That depends upon the caliber of the man lowering her.
Senator Smith. Does it not depend upon the gear ?
Mr. Lowe. It depends upon tne gear also, sir. You will say to
yourself, **I will take the chance with 50 people in this boat."
Another man will say, **I am not going to run the risk of 50; I \iTill
take 26 or 30."
Senator Smith. All right. You were in this boat, and the question
depended upon the caliber of yourself ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; not upon me.
Senator Smith. Upon whom ; Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Lowe. Upon Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. From what you saw, was that boat loaded carefuUj^,
to its proper capacity, that night ?
Mr. lx)WE. Tne lowering of that boat was not up to me.
Senator Smith. I am not asking that; I did not ask you that at all.
Read the question. If you will answer my questions we wiU make
much better progress.
The reporter repeated the question as follows:
From what you 'saw, was that boat loaded carefully, to iU proper capacity, that
night?
Mr. Lowe. You pull me up about going around explaining matters
to you, so I do not see how I can very wefl get at it it you pull me up
on it.
Senator Smfth. I am not pulling you up.
Mr. Lowe. I say, it is a matter of opinion whether that boat was
properly filled or not.
Senator Smith. I want your opinion.
Mr. Lowe. And that depends on the man in charge of that said
boat.
Senator Smith. Let me say this to jrou, Mr. Lowe: Nobody is on
trial here, and tliis is not a court; tnis is an inquiry. You stood
there and helped load this boat, and the man who had charge of it did
not survive. Now I ask you whether, in your judgment, rio. 5 life-
boat was properly loaded to its capacity for safety, considering the
condition of the weather and the condition of the sea ! You certainly
can answer that.
Mr. Lowe. Yes; she was, as regards lowering.
Senator Smith. What is the capacity of a lifeboat like that under
the British regulations?
Mr. Lowe. Sixtv-five point five.
Senator Smith. ^What do you mean by '* point five"? Do you
mean a little more ?
Mr. Lowe. A boy, or something like that.
Senator Smith. A Uttle below 65 or a little above it ?
Mr. Lowe. More than 65; 65.5.
Senator Smith. I want that understood. Do you wish the com-
mittee to understand that a lifeboat whose capacity is 65 under the
i t « . f f
TITANIC DISABTBB. 393
British regulations could not be lowered with safety, with new
tackle and equipment, containing more than 50 people?
Mr. Lowe. The dancers are that if you overcrowd the boat the
first thing that you will have will be that the boat will buckle up Uke
that [indicating] at the two ends, because she is suspended from both
ends and there is no support in the middle.
Senator Smith. These lifeboats were all on the upper deck?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If it is dangerous to lower a boat from the upper
deck, filled to the capacity prescribed by the British regulations
Mr. Lowe. Yes; that is tne floating capacity.
Senator Smith. Sixty-five plus is the floating capacitj ?
Mr. Lowe. That is the floating capacity; Siat is, m the water,
when she is at rest in the water. That is not when she is in the air.
Senator Smith. I am coming to that. Then 50 would be the
lowering capacity, in your judgment?
Mr. C^WE. Yes; I shoula not like to put more than 50 in.
Senator SMrra. Now, let me ask you this; you have had con-
siderable experience. Mr. Boxhall says that his lifeboat contained
about 23 people, as I recollect, when she was lowered. He did not
load that lifeboat to its full capacity, did he, if it contained but 23, or
even 35, persons ?
Mr. Lowe. Half a minute, sir. You must first of all ascertain was
Mr. Boxhall in charge of that boat ?
Senator Smith. I will mention Mr. LightoUer, who was in charge.
Mr. Lowe. Who was the senior officer.
Senator Smith. He was the second officer.
Mr. Lowe. Because the junior officer does not have anything to
do but as he is told, and he does it.
Senator Smith. Mr. LightoUer was the second oflBcer. ' He was in
charge.
Mr. Lowe. He was the officer in charge.
Senator Smith. If Mr. LightoUer says that the first Ufeboats
lowered on the port side of this boat were not loaded with more than
from 25 to 35 or 37 people, they were not loaded even to their
lowering capacity, were they ?
Mr. CowE. That is another way of looking at it. I told you it
was purely personal what a man considered safety.
Senator Smith. You considered 50 safe ?
Mr. Lowe. I am different from another man. I may take on more
risk, we wUl say, than you ; or you may take on more risk than me.
Senator Smith. I wUl pursue my inquiry. Do you know what
became of lifeboat No. 5 after it reached the water ?
Mr. Lowe. It got away; that is all I know.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. Pitman's testimony yesterday t
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I was told I was not required.
Senator Smith. Mr. Pitman said that his boat contained but 35
people when he lav on his oars about half a mUe away from the Titanic
while she was sinking.
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. I have given you the knowledge
Senator Smith. If Mr. Pitman was in this No. 5 boat, he was mis-
taken as to the number of people in it ?
Mr. Lowe. Why do you say he should be mistaken ?
394 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Because he said lie was in a boat with 35 people
and you say that he might have been in No. 5 with 50 people.
Mr. Lowe. If he was in No. 3, and he says there were 35, he had a
far better chance of ascertaining than I had. His judgment goes.
Senator Smith. If he occupied lifeboat No. 5 and says that it con-
tained only 35 people, in your opinion it would have accommodated
at least 15 more in the lowering and at least 30 more, all together, on
the water ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; not 30 more, and I never said 30 more.
Senator Smith. We will not have any misunderstanding at all.
You say that the capacity of this lifeboat. No. 5, was 65 people plus
in the water ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; 65.
Senator Smith. If he says he had 35 people on his boat, there
would have been room for 30 more on his boat, would there not ?
Mr. Lowe. You first said 15 and then 30.
Senator Smith. That makes 65. So that when he lay on his oars,
if he was in lifeboat No. 5 and he heard the groaning of these people
and their cries for help, he could, if he had gone toward them, have
accommodated 30 more people safely in that lifeboat ?
Mr. Lowe. After the ship had gone down ?
Senator Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; he could not; pardon me.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. Lowe. Because he would be hazarding all the rest of their
lives. That is the thought that struck me, and I will give you a full
explanation of that if you would like to listen to it.
Senator Smith. If it is to the point and will not take too long, I
think we may well hear it.
Mr. Lowe. I have several questions here I should like to explain.
Senator Smith. Just explain this one first, that we are now on.
Then I will proceed with tne examination.
Mr. IjOWE. What is that we are at now, sir ?
Senator Smith. Read the question, Mr. Reporter.
The reporter read the pending question.
Mr. I^we. I was listening to Major — I forget his name — ^yesterday
afternoon, and heard him say that the sailors could not row and man-
age a boat.
Senator Smith. Heard who say i
Mr. Lowe. The Major.
Senator Smith. Maj. Peuchen?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. This Canadian gentleman ?
Mr. Lowe. A sailor is not necessarily a boatman; neither is a boat-
man a sailor, because they are two very different callings. I might
pride myself that I am both — both a sailor and a boatman.
A sailor may go to sea for quite a number of years and never ^o into
a boat, never touch an oar, whereas you put a boatman in a ship and
put him to do a job, and he is useless. He does not know anything
about it. That is trying to convert a boatman into a sailor. They
are both very different callings. That is the reason why many of the
sailors could not row.
Senator Smith. That is the reason why the boats were not loaded
to their full capacity ?
<{ f>
TITANIC DISASTER. 395
Mr. Lowe. No ; that is not the reason why the boats were not
loaded to their full capacity.
Senator Smith. What is the reason?
Mr. Lowe. That is about all I have to say about the sailors not
being boatmen.
Senator Smith. Can you give any reason why they were not loaded
to their full capacity ?
Mr. Lowe. Mr. BoxhalPs boat ?
Senator Smith. The No. 5 boat that you lowered or helped to load ?
Mr. Lowe. I was not in a position to see that it was loaded.
Senator Smith. You were m a position to tell Mr. Ismay to go to
hell?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; because he was interfering with us. He was
interfering with me directly there.
Senator Smith. And you told him if he would go you would be able
to do something ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. And I assume that after he went you were able to
do something ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; and we did something.
Senator Smith. I want to know from what you did, whether you
believe that the reason why these boats were not loaded to their
lowering capacity and to their water capacity, was because you did
not have skillful men to operate them ?
Mr. Lowe. No. Mr. Murdock gave the order that that was enough
in the boat. He said, ''Lower away," and I lowered away. Mn
Murdock was the senior officer in charge.
Senator Smith. You do not find any fault with the shape of the
boats, do you ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; you could not have better boats.
Senator Smith. Then you must find fault with the men that
managed them.
Mr. Lowe. I find fault with the men to that extent that I have
already stated, that they were not boatmen.
Senator Smith. That they were not boatmen ?
1^. Lowe. Neither are boatmen sailors.
Senator Smith. Why did you let them in this lifeboat, then ?
Mr. Lowe. Why did I let them in the lifeboat ?
Senator Smith. Exactly; in No. 5. If they were not able to take
charge of the boat when it took the water, why did you let them
into this lifeboat — to save their lives, or to save the lives of the
woroen and children ?
Mr. Lowe. You could not run around asking who could row —
* 'Can you row ? Can you row ? "
Senator Smith. Did not Maj. Peuchen say here yesterday that he
was asked specifically if he knew anything about it, or about handling
a lifeboat, and that when he said ne did he was ordered to get in !
Were any such questions asked by you or by anybody near you of
the men that got into this lifeboat No. 5 ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; nobody asked me, and I never asked anybody
else whether they could hanole a boat.
Senator Smith. We will leave that right there, then.
What was the drill for at Southampton ?
896 TITANIC DISASTBE.
Mr. Lowe. The drill at Southampton ? I suppose it was for the
board of trade.
Senator Smith. Each of the these lifeboats at Southampton was
manned by eight men.
Mr. Lowe. There were two of them.
Senator Smith. I understand.
Mr. Lowe. I was in one and the sixth officer was in the other.
Senator Smith. And each of them was manned in that trial test by-
eight oarsmen ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; they were fair, as far as that goes.
Senator Smith. Where were these men who had gone through the
trial test at Southampton, when that aanger arose ? Do not get away
from what I want.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Just let us understand one another. Now, you
said that each man had his station ?
Mr. IjOwe. Yes.
Senator Smith. And that each was required to go through a drill ?
Mr. Ix)WE. Yes.
Senator Smith. That drill, of course, was for the purpose of famil-
iarizing those people with their duties if any accident happened, was
it not ? Wliere were those men when you were loading tne lifeboat
No. 5?
Mr. Lowe. You must remember, sir, in the first place that we had
the full ship's crew on our hands then, at Southampton, when we
manned those two boats, and we had the choice of the men; and in
the second place, when this accident .took place there was a crowd of
men — which accounts for the shortness of sailors — a crowd of men
went down with the boatswain to clear away the gangway doors in the
hope that we should be able to send people down there when we had
lowered the boats down.
Senator Smith. That did not require much skill, to clear away the
gangway doors. Anybody could ao that ?
A&. IjOWe. Anybody could do it, but whom were we goin^ to send ?
Senator Smith. But it did reauire some skill to lower and to satis-
factorily man the hfeboats; ana vet you are leaving the impression
upon the committee and upon this record that the men who were
familiar with those hfeboats and who had gone through the drill at
Southampton, were not available when those boats were loaded and
lowered. Is that the impression you desire to leave ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; it is not.
Senator Smith. I know there was confusion ; I know there was a
great emergency there, but I wondered whether the discipline was
right ?
Mr. Lowe. The discipline coidd not have been better, and what I
mean to say is that you must remeihber that we did not have one boat
to lower away; we had and we put 19 over, and when you come to split
up 16 men between 19 boats, you have not got many men to juggle
with. Then they are all scattered aU over the place.
Senator Smith. But you did not have very many boats. You only
had 20 boats altogether.
Mr. Lowe. We nad 20, and we got 19 away.
Senator Smith. What happened to the other?
ti .»...^«,^ n
TITANIC DISASTEB. 397
Mr. Lowe. We could not get that one oflf. That is, I understand
that. I was not there at the time.
Senator Smith. Was it caught in the gear ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; it was too late, 'fte ship went down.
Senator Smith. Do jtou mean to sav there was a lifeboat
Mr. Lowe (interrupting). No; a collapsible.
Senator Smith. Wait until I finish my Question. Do you mean to
say there was a lifeboat on the upper decs at the same place where
these other lifeboats were that could not be filled or loaded because
the ship went down too soon for that to be done ?
Mr. Ix>WE. The boat I speak of was on top of the quarters, and
they managed to get the lashings cut and it floated bottom up and
they could not get it out quick enough; that is, for it to float the right
way up.
Senator Smith. That was a collapsible boat ?
Mr. Lowe. That was a collapsible boat; yes.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, was there not a lifeboat that
got caught in the gear and could not be used ?
Mr. lS)WE. No; not one.
Senator Smith. Did not Mr. Lightoller, the second officer, say the
other day in New York, that there was ?
Mr. Lowe. Not to my knowledge: no.
Senator Smith. The men whose duty it was to respond promptly
when the order was given to clear away and lower the boats did not
appear in sufficient numbers to do that work ? Is that correct ?
Sir. Lowe. You want at least 8 or between 8 and 10 men to
get a lifeboat ready, and you must understand that we are not get-
ting all the lifeboats ready at once, or getting as many ready as we
possibly can. Those that we get ready we are swinging out and filUng
with women and children. I do not really remember the number oi
sailors we had on board.
Senator Smith. If it requires 8 to 10 men to fill and lower and
pull away a lifeboat, and you had 8 or 10 men there for that pur-
pose, or to assist in that work, why were not the lifeboats filled with
their complement of men to do that work ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know how many of the crew were saved. I
know the total crew in general was 903, and I do not know how many
seamen there were.
Senator Smith. You said in the beginning that this ship was
complete.
Mr. Lowe. Complete in what sense ?
Senator Smith. That you yourself had examined these Ufeboats %
Mr. Lowe. The lifeboats were all right. There was nothing wrong
with them.
Senator Smith. But there was nobody to man them ?
Mr. Lowe. You must remember, sir, that there was a crowd went
down to the gangway doors to get them open and we were going to
load the boats and take passengers from these gangway doors.
Senator Smith. But here is a boat, with how many constituting a
crew, all together ?
Mr. Lowe. A working crew of 8 to 10.
Senator Smfth. Eight to ten hundred ?
Mr. Lowe. You mean the Titanic t
Senator Smith. Yes.
398 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lowe. Nine hundred and three, I was told.
Senator Smith. There were 903 in the crew of the Titanic?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. And yet there was no one to properly man the
lifeboats ?
Mr. Lowe. You must remember there were a lot of them down
below.
Senator Smith. I am making all allowance for that. You were on
the upper deck, and you were watching this matter. You were suffi-
ciently interested in it so that you did not want even Mr. Ismay to
interfere and did not want anybody else to interfere. I want you to
answer my question if you can.
Mr. Lowe. I knew absolutely nothing about the other departments,
either the stokehold department or the engineering department. We
know notliing whatever, only about our own.
Senator Perkins. It is in thjB testimony that there were 83 sailors.
Mr. Lowe. I do not know. We were orand new to the sliip, just
the same as everybody else.
Senator Smith. If there were 83 sailors, and the testimony shows
that there were 83 available men who did know how how to man and
how to care for a lifeboat, then there were that many, were there not,
who could have handled those boats ?
Mr. Lowe. No; they did not know how to man or care for life-
boats. That is why I say a sailor is not necessarily a boatman.
Senator Smith. I understand; but you had a complement of men
there who were selected because they could discharge this duty. I
want to know where those men were — ^whether they were at the
boats when you had finished the loading or whether they were not;
and if they were at the boats, why were they not put into them in
sufficient numbers ?
Mr. Lowe. In the first place, you must remember that I was what
ivas termed a junior officer, and I am not one of the seniors; that is,
I do as the senior tells me. Certainly I have authority if I am there
myself, and there only* but should there be anybody else, I give way
to the senior and take nis orders.
Senator Smith. Do you know in which of the Ufeboats these six
men, that were on the lookout in the crow's nest, were rescued ?
Mr. Lowe. The six men in the crow's nest ?
Senator Smith. Yes; Mr. Fleet and these others?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. But you wish us to understand from all you have
said that there were not men suitable and available at that particular
time to properly man these lifeboats ?
Mr. Lowe. Thejr were the same men as you get in every mercantile
marine, not the British alone. You will find the best sailors going in
the British marine; but that does not matter. It is the same in the
American, and just the same everywhere.
Senator Smith. I am not having a very easy time with you, because
you do not seem to be willing to answer my questions.
We have asked you, and you have said, that the Ufeboats were all
that could be expected and that the gear and the equipment was com-
plete. You have said that two of them were testea at Southampton,
and you have said that they were only loaded to partial capacity,
because there was danger in lowering, and that that danger aid not
i i y y
TITANIC DISASTER. 3d9
relate to the equipment, but to the capacity of the men who were
doing that work.
Are you ready to admit tfiat the men on that ship, whose duty it
was to report to their stations when the order was issued to clear away
the lifeboats and lower them with women and children, were not
available % You can answer that very easily, and we will not argue
about it another minute.
Mr. Lowe. Do you mean to ask, sir, if the men were at their boat-
drill stations ?
Senator SMrra. Yea.
]Mr. Lowe. No; they were not.
Senator Smith. After you had lowered the lifeboat No. 5, you pro-
ceeded to load what boat ?
Mr. Lowe. No. 3.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in filling No. 3 ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; I had difficulty all along. I could not get
enough people.
Senator Smith. Did anyone get into either of these lifeboats, No. 3
or No. 5, and get out again?
Mr. Lowe. I do not remember; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Did anyone get into either of them who was put
out by your order ?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Or anybody within your hearing?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Did any women attempt to get in either of these
boats and not succeed in getting in ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any men attempt to and fail to get in ?
Mr. Lowe. No; not one.
Senator Smith. Or children ?
Mr. Lowe. No; because we
Senator Smith. Was the conduct of the people when you were
loading these boats excited or otherwise ?
Mr. Lowe. Everything was quite quiet and calm. The" only
thing — and of course you would expect that — was that the people
were messing up the fails, getting foul of the falls, and I had to tialioa
a bit to get them off the falls. Everything else went nicely, very
nicely; quietly and orderly.
Senator Smith. Did you see families separated ?
Mr. Lowe. I did.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was there anything special that occurred at such
times?
Mr. Lowe. Well, when I was going in my boat — that is. No. 14 —
do you wish me to go on and tell it?
Senator Smith. No; I am talking about No. 3 and No. 5, when they
were being loaded and families were being separated.
Mr. Lowe. I did not see any at those boats; no.
Senator Smith. And was there any demonstration ?
ifr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. ver3rthing was cjuiet ?
Mr. Lowe. Everything was quiet and orderly.
400 TITANIC DISABTBB.
Senator Smith. Was there any weeping or lamentation ?
Mr. Lowe. No, not that I heard.
Senator Smith. And with everything quiet and orderly, who
selected the persons to fill these boats ?
Mr. Lowe. Let us see. Mr. Murdock was on No. 5 and No. 3.
Then I took one
Senator Smfth. No, do not get away from these two. I will get
to the other later. Was it a part of your duty to select the people who
were to get into lifeboat No. 3 and lifeboat No. 5 ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I aided Mr. Murdock generally, but
Senator Smith. What did vou do alK)ut it yourself ? Did you
arbitrarily select from the deck ?
Mr. Lowe. You say "select.'' There was no such thing as select-
ing. It was simply tne first woman, whether first class, second class,
third class, or sixty-seventh class. It was all the same; women and
children were first.
Senator Smith. You mean that there was a procession of women
Mr. Lowe. The first woman was first into the boat, and the second
woman was second into the boat, no matter whether she was a first-
class passenger or any other class.
Senator Smith. So there was a procession
Mr. Lowe. A procession at both ends of the boat.
Senator Smith. Coming toward these lifeboats ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did that extend beyond the upper deck ?
Mr. Lowe. No; no; there were only little knots around the deck,
little crowds.
Senator Smith. Now, as they came along, you would pass them,
one at a time, into the lifeboat ^ What orders did you have; to pass
women and children ?
Mr. Lowe. I simply shouted, ''Women and children first; men
stand back."
Senator Smith. Do you know how many woman there were on
the boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not, sir.
Senator Smith. You put them aboard as they came along, the first
being served first i
Mr. Lowe. The first, fij^t; second, second.
Senator Smith. Regardless of class ?
Mr. Lowe. Regardless of class, or nationaUty, or pedigree.
Senator Smith. If it happened to be a stewardess
Mr. Lowe. Yes; just the same, if she was a woman.
Senator Smith. Or other woman employee ?
Mr. Lowe. Any women.
Senator Smith. Or passenger; you made no distinction, but put
them into the lifeboat ?
Mr. Lowe. No distinction whatsoever. Even if we had wished to
draw a distinction, to select them, as you might call it, we would not
know who were the stewardesses and who were not.
Senator Smith. I have not asked you to go into that at all. I
think you stated it very clearly, that you took the first woman who
came and asked no questions. Now, when you fiilled lifeboat No. 5,
did the women hesitate or demur about going in, or were they anxious
to go?
( i ^ ,^^ f >
TITANIC DISASTER. 401
^^^. Lowe. Well, I do not remember about that particular boat;
but (luring the course of the evening I distinctly remember saying
' * One more woman," or * * Two more women," or ' * Three more women,
and they would step forward and I would pass them into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did you jiot ever call lor women passengers and
not get any ?
Mr. Lowe. Mr. Murdock said, *'That will do," and it was stopped.
Then, *^Lower away."
Senator Smith. 6ut you feel quite confident that there were 50
people in lifeboat No.
Air. Lowe (interposing) . I do not, sir. I want you to imderstand
that I can not judge with any degree of accm-acy how many people
there were in it.
Senator Smith. Let it stand that way. We will not talk about it
we will just let it stand that way.
Mr. Lowe. That was simply as near as I can judge.
Senator Smith. In loading boat No. 3, did you take the same
course?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; the same proceedings.
Senator Smith. Did Officer Murdock have charge of that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; he was there up to the finishing of No. 3.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Ismay assist in filling that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; he assisted there, too.
Senator Smith. You found him there when you turned from No.
5 to No. 3 ?
Mr. Lowe. He was there, and I distinctly remember seeing him
alongside of me — that is, by my side — when the first detonator went
off. I will tell you how I happen to remember it so distinctly. It
was because the flash of the detonator lit up the whole deck. I did
not know who Mr. Ismay was then, but I learned afterwards who he
was, and he was standing alongside of me.
Senator Smith. Did you say anything to him ?
Mr. Lowe. I did not.
Senator Smith. You saw him in the flash
Mr. Lowe. Of the detonator.
Senator Smith. Did you hear what Mr. Boxhall said about firing
these rockets?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any such thing ?
Mr. Lowe. Any what, sir ?
Senator Smith. Firing rockets.
Mr. Lowe. I am now speaking of it.
Senator Smith. I know you are and that is the reason I am asking
you about it.
Mr. Lowe. Yes; they were incessantly going off; they were nearly
deafening me.
Senator Smith. And you pursued the same course in loading life-
boat No. 3 ?
Mr. Lowe. No. 3; yes.
Senator Smith. How many women did lifeboat No. 3 contain ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir; I can not sav.
Senator SMrrn. Do you know any of them ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I do not know any of them; not one.
40475--PT 5—12 4
402 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Have you learned sijQce the boat was filled who any
ef them were ?
Mr. Lowe. Since the boat was filled, no; because^ as you know, one
does not seem to be interested in anybody else's boat except his own;
and when we were on board the Carpathia I would go around and see —
well, I don't know. I suppose you might deem them your friends; I
suppose you could. They were very suddenly brought together, and
alltnat. I used to go around among them; and I knew my boat crew.
Senator Smith, xes; that is quite unimportant. I want to get the
number of women, if you can tell, who were put into lifeboat No. 3.
Mr. Lowe. I can not tell. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Or the number of men ?
Mr. Lowe. 1 do not know, sir. I can not tell.
Senator Smith. Or the number of sailors ?
Mp. Lowe. I know there must have been pretty nearly an equal
percentage of men and women in No. 3.
Senator SMrrn. How do you know that ?
Mr. Lowe. Because there were not many women there.
Senator Smith. Not many women there to respond ?
Air. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And so you took men ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; so as to get the lifeboats away.
Senator Smith. And you do not know what men were in No. 3 ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any officers in it ?
kfr. Lowe. No. As I told you before, Mr. Pitman was either in
No. 3 or No. 5; which one I do not know.
Senator Smith. But there were no other officers in lifeboat No. 3 ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It was about equally filled with men and women,
you say ?
Mr. Lowe. I should say so.
Senator Smith. Any cmldren in lifeboat No. 3?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know; I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any of those men who filled
lifeboat No. 3 were of the crew; or were they passengers?
Mr. Lowe. I can not say.
Senator Smith. What is your judgment in regard to that ?
Mr. Lowe. As far as I know — of course I gave preference to the male
Eassengers, I should say, to the passengers rather than the crew.
>o you understand me ?
Senator Smith. Yes. How many were there in lifeboat No. 3, in
your opinion ?
Mr. IjOwe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it loaded ?
Mr. Lowe. She was not very heavily loaded. I should say 40 to
45. maybe. We will say 40.
Senator Smith. The same sized boat as No. 5 1
Mr. Lowe. The same sized boat; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in lowering it ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; absolutely none.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in manning her ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; none.
Senator Smith. How did it happen that you did not put more peo-
ple into lifeboat No. 3 than 45 ?
if -«-.. ^ ff
TITANIC DISA8XBB. 403
Mr. Lowe. There did not seem to be any people there.
Senator Smith. You did not find anybody that wanted to go ?
Mr. Lowe. Those that were there did not seem to want to go. I
hollered out, *' Who's next for the boat V^ and there was no response.
Senator Smith. Was the top deck crowded ?
Mr. Lowe. No. There was a Uttle knot of people on the forepart
of the gymnasium door.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the staircase was guarded
that led up to the top floor ?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Were people permitted to roam as they desired
over the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. Eveiybody was free to go where they wanted to.
Senator Smith. No restraint ?
Mr. Lowe. No restraint.
Senator Smith. And this applied to crew as well as to passengers ?
Mr. Lowe. I suppose so.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Maj. Peuchen yesterday say that a
laige number of the coal stokers came up onto tne deck and crowded
ba^ the women and a large officer came forward and drove them
away?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I heard the major say something to that effect.
Senator Smith. Did you see that ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there a large number of the crew, either stokers
or otherwise, on the top deck at any time ?
Mr. Lowe. I think I had four or five firemen in my boat; but I do
not remember seeing a crowd of them. I will say that I did not see
them.
Senator Smith. Tell me, if you can, how many men there were in
lifeboat No. 3.
Mr. Lowe. I should say, maybe — I don't know — about 25.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen any of them since then %
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of them at the time ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith.' Then if you loaded lifeboat No. 3 with about 25
men and she contained altogether about 45 people, you had 25 men
and 20 women ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; somewhere along there.
Senator Smith. Now, you wish us to understand that there were no
women available ?
Mr. Lowe. Not at that time. Whether there were women there
and they would not get into the boat is a different matter. I do not
know.
Senator Smith. Did you see any women there who would not leave
their husbands
Mr. Lowe. I saw some women there, but I did not have time to go
and drive them away. I simply shouted, "Women and children."
Senator Smith. That is all apart. You do not need to say that;
that simply takes time. Did you see any women, when you were
loading lifeboat No. 3, who were unwilling to be separated from their
husbands and their f amiUes and refused to go into the lifeboat %
Mr. Lowe. Well, they did not respond to the call.
<i . ^ yj
404 TITANIC DISASTEK.
Senator Smith. So, after 45 people had been put into lifeboat
No. 3 it was lowered ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you help lower it ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Lowe. I was standing at the side of the ship watching the after
end.
Senator Smith. Watching the after end; and was the boat lowered
without diflBculty ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see it when it struck the water ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; we lowered it right down into the water.
Senator Smith. And when it reached the water, did you see it
again ?
Mr. IjOWE. No; I did not see it again.
Senator Smith. You are unable to say what officer, if any, had
charge of it ?
Mr. Lowe. It was Mr. Pitman
Senator SMnn. There is a possibility that it was Officer Pitman
That is all you are able to say ?
Mr. Lowe. That is all I am able to say. I know it was nobody
else
. Senator Smith. What did you do next ?
Mr. Lowe. I went to the emergency boat.
Senator Smith. That is a smaller boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many will that hold ?
Mr. Lowe. She is supposed to carry, I think, 40 — that is, floating.
Senator Smith. And now many lowering ?
Mr. Lowe. I should say 30.
Senator Smith. Did you help fill that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know anybody that was in that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. No ; I think there were about five women. I think there
were parties in this boat
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Mi. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. What was the number of that boat %
Mr. Lowe. No. 1.
Senator Smith. How many women were there in No. 1 !
Afr. Lowe. I do not know whether it was three — I suppose it
would be about five.
Senator Smith. And how many men ?
Mr. Lowe. I suppose there would be, about as near as I can judge,
22 men.
Senator Smith. Any children ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not remember seeing any children.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of these men %
Mr. Lowe. I do not.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of them at the time ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I never met any of them.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there was any officer in that
boat?
{ i ^ , ^.,^ } f
TITANIC DISASTER. 405
Mr. Lowe. No; there was not any oflS^cer.
Senator Smith. Were there any sailors in .that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I think there was a quartermaster, unless I am mis-
taken.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Is this the same boat that was referred to by Maj.
Peuchen ?
Mr. Lowe. Which boat did he refer to ?
Senator Smith. I am asking you. He said there was a. quarter-
master in his boat.
Mr. Lowe. No. I think it was boat No. 3 that he went in. We
are now speaking of boat No. 1.
Senator Smith. How many sailors were in that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I think there were four or five.
Senator Smith. Who were the other men; were they passengers or
members of the crew ?
Mr. Lowe. The others were passengers.
Senator Smith. All passengers t
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; as far as I can remember; as far as I could
make out.
Senator Smith. And all men ?
Mr. Lowe. And all men.
Senator Smith. But you can not recollect anybody that was in
that boat, with the possible exception of the quartermaster?
Mr. Lowe. No, I can not.
Senator Smith. Were you particular to see that some one was put
in the boat who could handle it ?
Mr. Lowe. As far as my own judgment could tell me; yes, sir. I
remember asking, I remember I hollered down from the boat deck to
the water and said, "Who is that in the emergency boat?" And I
could not quite hear what he said.
Senator ^mith. You mean that you helped load the emergency
boat, No. 1, and lowered it down to the water, 70 feet below the
place where you loaded it, before you asked who was in it ?
Mr. Lowe. I knew that there was a quartermaster in it, but I did
not know his name.
Senator Smith. You waited until he got 70 feet below you ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. And then tried to ascertain his name ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was that the first attempt you had made to ascer-
tain his name ?
Mr. Lowe. As far as I remember.
Senator Smith. Did you ascertain his name ?
Mr. Lowe. I heard something, but I do not remember what he
said, now.
Senator Smith. And you do not know the name of any other person
in lifeboat No. 1?
Mr. Lowe. That is the emergency boat, not lifeboat No. 1. It is
emergency boat No. 1.
Senator Smith. How lon^ did it take to lower a lifeboat, or an
emergency boat, and clear Her away — lower her into the water ?
406 TITAiriC DIBASTEB.
Mr. Lowe. I could not tell you how long it would take, because it
varied.
Senator Smith. About how long ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know that 1 could tell you how long.
Senator Smith. Did it take 20 minutes ; or approximately how long ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I should say, from the start to finish of putting a
boat over, until you get her into the water, it will take you somewhere
about 20 minutes.
Senator Smith. And does that include uncovering the boat, taking
the canvas or covering off of it ?
Mr. Lowe. You will have to uncover it, and let go your gripes, and
all that.
Senator Smith. I say, does that time include that ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. You had lowered 5 and 3 and 1. If it took you
about 20 minutes on each, you were an hour in loading these 3 boats
and getting them off ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know how long I was, sir, becauae I did not
know the time, or anything else. I was anxious to do all I could to
help everybody, and I did not know anything about time.
oenator Smith Where did you next go ?
Mr. Lowe. I next went across the deck.
Senator Smith. To the other side ?
Mr. Lowe. To the other side, that is, the port side, and I met the
sixth officer. Moody, and asked Moody, ''What are you doing?"
He said, *'I am getting these boats away." So we filled both 14 and
16 with women and children.
Senator Smith. Which one did you fill first ?
Mr. Lowe. No. 14. I did not fill 16; Moody filled 16.
Senator Smith. You filled 14*
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. LightoUer, the second officer, there?
Mr. Ix)WE. He was there a part of the time, and he went away
somewhere else. He must have gone to the second boat forward.
Senator Smith. Who had charge of the loading of lifeboat No. 14 ?
Mr. Lowe. I had.
Senator Smith. And how many people did you put into it?
Mr. Lowe. Fifty-eight.
Senator Smith. How many women; do you know?
Mr. Lowe. They were all women and children, bar one passcfngor,
who was an Italian, and he sneaked in, and he was dressed like a
woman.
Senator Smith. Had woman's clothing on?
Mr. Lowe. He had a shawl over his head, and everything else; and
I only found out at the last moment. And there was another passen-
ger that I took for rowing.
Senator Smith. Who was that ?
Mr. JjOWE. That was a chap by the name of C. Williams.
Senator Smith. Where did he live?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know where he lived.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen him since?
Mr. Jjowk. Yes; I saw him since, on board the Carpaihia.
Senator Smith. Was lie one of the men whose names you have on
that paper?
ft p»-^«.«*,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 407
Mr. Lowe. I have his name: that is, his home address, but not his
New York address.
Senator Smith. I would like his home address.
Mr. Lowe. I can give you that. Will you have it now ?
Senator Smith. Yes; also the name of any other man or woman
in the boat that you know, and their address.
Mr, Lowe (referring to book). *T. Williams, racket champion
of the world,'' he has here, " No. 2 Drury Road, Harrow-on-the-
Hill, Middlesex, England.''
Senator Smith. Give all the others ?
Mr. Lowe. You want them in my own boat, sir. I
Senator Smith. Yes; you said you -had the names of all in the
boat.
Mr. Lowe. You see, I was in charge of five boats.
Senator Smith. But this is of the boat you were in yourself. No. 14 1
Mr, Lowe. Yes. I will eive them to you.
Senator Smith. This is the one you loaded ?
Mr. Lowe. You want those in tne boat from the davits, not what
I picked up ?
Senator Smith. No, I am going to ask you that later.
Mr. Lowe. The next were Mrs. A. T. vompton, and Miss S. R.
Compton, Laurel House, Lake wood, N. J.
Senator Smith. Go ahead a little faster, if you can.
Mr. Lowe. That is all.
Senator Smith. Those are the only names you took down ?
Mr. Lowe. Out of my own particular boat.
Senator Smith. I thought you had a card there that they had
signed with then' autographs.
Mr. Lowe. Who ?
Senator Smith. These passengers who were in your own boat.
No. 14.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I am no autograph hunter.
Senator Smith. I understand; but I thoilght you told me you had
a card of that kind.
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You say there were how many people in your boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Fifty-eight, sir.
Senator Smith. And that was when you left the davits ?
Mr. Lowe. That was when I left the davits.
Senator Smith. How many people got into that boat after it
reached the water, or at any other aeck 1
Mr. Lowe. None, sir. i ou see, I chased all of my passengers out
of my boat and emptied her into four other boats that I nad. I
herded five boats all together.
Senator Smith. Yes; what were they?
Mr. Lowe. I was in No. 14. Then I had 10, I had 12, and I had
another collapsible, and one other boat the number of which I do
not know. I herded them together and roped them — made them all
tie up — and of course I had to wait until the yells and shrieks had
subsided — for the people to thin out — and then I deemed it safe for
me to go amongst tne wreckage. So I transferred all my passengers—
somewhere about 53 passengers — ^from my boat, and I equally dis-
tributed them between my other four boats. Then I asked for vol-
unteers to go with me to the wreck, and it was at this time that I
408 TITANIC DISASTER.
found this Italian. He came aft, and he had a shawl over his head
and I suppose he had skirts. Anyhow, I pulled this shawl off his
face and saw he was a man. He was in a great hurry to get into the
other boat, and I caught hold of him and pitched him in.
Senator Smith. Pitched him in ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; because he was not worthy of being handled
better.
Senator Smith. 'You pitched- him in among the women ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; m the fore part of the lifeboat in which I
transferred my passengers.
Senator SMrrn. Did you use some pretty emphatic language
when you did that ?
Mr. Lowe. Xo, sir; I did not say a word to him.
Senator Smith. Just picked him up and pitched him into tlus other
lifeboat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes. Then I went off and I rowed off to the wreck-
age and around the wreckage and I picked up four people.
Senator Smith. Dead or ahve ?
Mr. I-<owE. Four alive. »
Senator Smith. Wlio were they ?
Mr. Ix)WE. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Have you ever found out?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know who these three live persons were; tlioy
never came near me afterwards, either to say tliis^ that, or the other.
But one died, and that was a Mr. Hoyt, of New \ork, and it took all
the boat's crew to pull tlus gentleman into the boat, because he was
an enormous man, and I suppose he had been soaked fairly well with
water, and when we picked him up he was bleeding from the mouth
and from the nose, oo we did get him on board and 1 propped him up
at the stern of the boat, and we let go liis collar, took lus collar off, and
loosened his shirt so as to give him every chance to breathe; but,
unfortunately, he died. I suppose he was too far gone when we
picked him up. But tlie other three survived. I then left the
wreck. I went right around and, strange to say, I did not see a
single female body, not one, around the wreckage.
Senator Smith. Did you have a light in your boat ?
Mr. Low^E. No. sir. I left my crowd of boats somewhere, I should
say, about between half past 3 and 4 in the morning, and after I
had been around it was just breaking day, and I am quite satisfied
that I had a real good look around, and tliat there was nothing left.
Senator Smith. Now. I am going to stop you there just for a mo-
ment. You can tell what you did then ?
Mr. Lowe. Then what ?
Senator Smith. After you looked around, then what did you do i
Mr. Lowe. I then thought — well, the thought flashed through my
mind, ** Perhaps the ship has not seen us in the semigloom.'*
Senator Smith. The Carpathia?
Mr. Ix)WE. Yes. I could see her coming up, and I thought, "Well,
I am the fastest boat of the lot,*' as I was saiUng, you see. I was
going through the water very nicely, going at about, well. I should
say, four knots, five knots, inaybe; it may have been a little more;
it may have been six; but, anyhow, I was bowUng along very nicely.
Senator Smith. In the direction of the Carpathiaf
ti ,^^.^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 409
Mr. Lowe. In the direction of the Carpathia. And I thought, "I
am the fastest boat, and I think if I go toward her, for fear of her
leaving us to our doom" — that is what I was scared about, and you
will understand that day was dawning more and more as the time
came on.
Senator Smith. I assume that to be so.
Mr. Lowe. And by and by, I noticed a collapsible boat, and it
looked rather sorry, so I thought, "Well, I will go down and pick
her up and make sure of her." So I went about and sailed down to
this collapsible, and took her in tow.
Senator Smith. Whom did you find in control of this collapsible ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir; because you must understand that
when we are on shipboard we do not call men, so and so, by their
names.
Senator Smith. I did not know but what you might designate him.
Mr. Lowe. If we want a quartermaster we do not say Bright, or
whatever his name is; we say '* Quartermaster.''
Senator Smith. I do not care about that feature. I wiU ask you a
straight question, whether you know anybody that was in that col-
lapsible boat.
Air. Lowe. I knew one.
Senator Smith. Who ?
Mr. Lowe. I think she was in that boat; that is Mrs. H. B. Harris,
of New York. She had a broken arm.
Senator Smith. But you did not knew anyone else ?
Mr. Lowe. You must understand that by this time my first boat's
crew had got scattered .
Senator Smith. I am not asking about that, at all; I am asking
whether you knew anyone in this collapsible boat that you attached
to your own, except this woman?
Mr. Lowe. Mrs. Harris; that is all.
Senator Smith. Did you come to know any of them afterwards ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to take you back a moment. Before you
transferred the 53 people from your lifeboat. No. 14, to other Ufeboats,
including this Itauan in woman's attire, you say you lay off a bit.
Where : how far from the Titanic?
Mr. Ix)WE. I lay off from the Titanic, as near as I could roughly
estimate, about 150 yards, because I wanted to be close enough in
order to pick up anyblody that came by.
Senator Smith. I understand; butyousaidyoulayoff a bit to wait
until it quieted down.
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Until what quieted down ?
Mr. Lowe. Until the drowning people had thinned out.
Senator SMrrn. You lay off a tit until the drownhig people had
quieted down ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smfth. Then you went to the scene of the wreck ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Had their cries quieted down before you started ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; they had subsided a good deal. It would not have
been wise or safe for me to have gone there before, because the whole
lot of us would have been swamped and then nobody would have been
saved.
410 tita:nic disaster.
Senator Smith. But your boat had, according to your own admis-
sion, a water capacity of 65 people ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes ; but then what are you going to do with a boat of
65 where 1,600 people are drowning?
Senator Smith. You could have saved 15.
Mr. Low^B. You could not do it, sir.
Senator Smfth. At least, you made no attempt to do it ?
Mr. Lowe. I made the attempt, sir, as soon as any man could do
so, and I am not scared of saying it. I did not hang back or anything
else.
Senator Smith. I am not saving you hung back. I am just saying
that you said you lay by until it nad quieted down.
Mr. Lowe, lou had to do so. It was absolutely not safe. You
could not do otherwise, because you would have hundreds of people
around your boat, and the boat would go down just like that [indi-
cating].
Senator Smith. About how long did you lay by ?
Mr. Lowe. I should say an hour and a half; somewhere under two
hours.
Senator Smith. On your oars ?
Mr. Lowe. No; we did not. We unshipped our oars, and I made
the five boats fast together and we hung on like that.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Titanic sink ?
Mr. Lowe. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. How long after you left her side in the lifeboat did
she sink ?
Mr. Lowe. I suppose about half an hour. No — yes; somewhere
about half an hour.
Senator Smith. Then vou laid an hour after she sank?
Mr. Lowe. An hour aiter she sank.
Senator Smith. Before going to the scene of the wreck?
Mr. Lowe. Before going to the scene of the wreck.
Senator Smith. You were about 150 yards off?
Mr. Lowe. I was just on the margin. If anybody had struggled
out of the mass, I was there to pick them up; but it was useless for me
to go into the mass.
Senator Smith. You mean for anybody ?
Mr. Low^E. It would have been suicide.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that if anybody had applied to you
for permission to get aboard, you would have accorded them the right ?
Mr. Ix)WE. I would have taken anybody and everybody; that is,
because we could have handled them there. We could never have
handled them in the mass.
Senator Smith. I just wanted to see what you did toward it.
IIow did the Titanic go down '?
Mr. Lowe. She went down bow first and inclined at an angle.
That is, when she took her final plunge she was inclined at an angle of
about 75°.
Senator Smith. Almost perpendicular ?
Mr. Lowe. Pretty well. On an angle about like that [indicating].
Senator Smith. Were you close enough to see whether there were
anv people on the afterdecks at that time ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. It was pretty dark, and we could not see them.
Senator Smith. Did you see any fire on the Titanic?
ti ..w^.^...^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEK. 411
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any explosion ?
Mr. Lowe. I heard explosions, yes; I should say about four.
Senator Smith. At what time with reference to your departure from
the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. That was after I left the ship.
Senator Smith. What time was it with reference to your departure
from the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. About, I should say, a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes.
Senator Smith. About 20 minutes i
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. When you left the ship's side in lifeboat No. 14, you
said you had about 53 people?
Mr. Lowe. Fifty-eieht people ; that is, 63 passengers.
Senator Smith. And wnen you lay by outside with boats 10 and
12
Mr. Lowe (interrupting). Boats 10 and 12 and 14 and the col-
lapsible.
Senator Smith. You then took out of vour boat 53 of these people
and distributed them in the other boats i
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you did that, did you feel that you were
taxing the capacity of the other boats f
Mr. Lowe. What had you to do ? You had to do something.
Senator Smith. But you did not do anything at that time ? You
took those people out and placed them in these other boats, including
the Italian that you ejected. You waited until things had quieted
doMm, an hour and a half, and then sailed around the place where the
Titanic had simk, and you foimd threepeople, all of whom you took
into your boat, one of whom died. When you went alongside the
Carpathian how many people were in your boat ?
Mr. Lowe. There were about 45.
Senator Smith. Where did you get them ?
Mr. Lowe. I got them out of the sinking collapsible.
Senator Smith. An overturned collapsible ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; it was a collapsible that some wreckage had
pierced. I was coming to that when you stopped me.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you come to it now.'
Mr. Lowe. I had taken this first collapsible in tow, and I noticed
that there was another collapsible in a worse plight than this one that
I had in tow. I Was just tninldng and wondering whether it would
be better for me to cut this one adrift and let her go, and for me to
travel faster to the sinking one, but I thought, "No, I think I can
manage it"; so I cracked on a bit, and I got down there just in time
and took off, I suppose, about 20 men and 1 lady out of this sinking
collapsible.
Senator Smith. Did you leave any bodies on there ?
Mr. Lowe. I left three bodies on it.
Senator Smith. What was the number of that boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir; it was one of the coUapsibles.
Senator Smith. But you took off of it 20 men ?
Mr. Lowe. About 20 men.
Senator Smith. And three women ?
ft ,»,«,. ^^,^ ff
412 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Lowe. One woman.
Senator Smith. And left on board how many ?
Mr. Lowe. Three male bodies.
Senator Smfth. So that m this damaged collapsible there were 24
people, all together ?
Mr. Lowe. Twenty-one and three are twenty-four, all together;
yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What became of the other three that you left
on it?
Mr. Lowe. As to the three people that I left on her — of course, I
may have been a bit hard heartea, I can not say — but I thought to
myself, ''I am not here to worry about bodies: 1 am here for hfe, to
save life, and not to bother about bodies,'' and I left them.
Senator Smith. Were they dead when you left them i
Afr. Lowe. They were dead ; yes, sir. The people on the raft told
me thev had been dead some time. I said, Are you sure they are
dead?' They said, '^Absolutely sure." I made certain they were
dead, and Questioned them one and all before I left this collapsible.
Senator omith. Did you attempt to find anything on their persons
that would identify them ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether anyone did ?
Mi. Lowe. No, sir; nobody- because they were all up to their
ankles in water when I took tnem off. Another three nunutes and
they would have been down.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of these three persons would
you say, or could you say, whether they were old or voung ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I would not like to state anytning. AU that
I can state is that they were male.
Senator Smith. They were men ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were they of the crew or passengers ?
Mr. Lowe. That I would not like to say.
Senator Smith. You could not tell ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they have Ufe preservers on, or did they not ?
Mr. Lowe. I think they had life belts on.
Senator Smith. Have you ever learned since that night who those
tliree people were ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe, after taking these passengers from that
collapsible that was injured, you headed in the direction of the Car-
pathiat
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I left for the CarpaiJiia.
Senator Smith. Did you succeed in landing them ?
Mr. Lowe. I landed everybody.
Senator Smith. AU of them ?
Mr. Lowe. And the corpse included.
Senator Smith. Including the corpse of the man that had died on
your boat ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. What, if anything, did you do after that ?
Mr. Lowe. There was nothmg to do, sir. What was there to do ?
Senator Smith. I did not say there was anything. I simply asked
what you did.
ft ..^_. **.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 413
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; there was nothing to do.
Senator Smith. I do not want to press you about the matter too
hard, nor do I want to overtax you, but I would hke to know whether,
in the early morning of Monday, you passed near or counted the ice-
berg you saw ; I believe about a dozen or so of them ?
Mr. Lowe. There must have been about a dozen; somewheres
from 12 to 20, I should say.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything more about this accident
that bears upon the question of the discipline of the men, and the
collision or impact, than vou have stated ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I clo not know any more.
Senator Smith. We will not go over it all, or any of it, for that mat-
ter. I will be very glad if you will complete the point that I made
regarding the manner in which you took the boat's position at 8 p. m.
Sunday. You said you could do that from the chart. If you will
kindly do so
Mr. Lowe. I can not do it on that tiling, sir [indicating].
Senator Smith. You can not do it on that chart ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you anything, Mr. Franklin, from which he
could make that figure ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not think so. He would have to have his
instruments and calculations and tables to do it.
Senator Smith. Then you are unable to give that information
accurately from any data you have ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I can not.
Mr. Franklin. Let him do it and submit it as part of his testimony.
Senator Smith. I would like very much if you can work it out and
hand it to me as part of your testimony. I would hke to insert it in
the record.
'Sir. Lowe. I do not remember the course that she steered, from
then on. You must have the course.
Senator Smith. Is that absolutely necessary
Mr. Lowe. Oh, yes ; if
Senator Smith. Wait a moment. Would the course at 8 o'clock
be necessary to determine the speed at noon that day ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir. The course
Senator Smith. All right; stop right there, then, if it would not.
Would the course be necessaiy at 8 p. m. to determine the astro-
nomical position ?
Mr. Lowe. The astronomical position is found independent of the
course.
Senator Smith. Exactly. Then it is necessary.
Mr. Lowe. But the position that I mentioned to you was not obser-
vation. It was D. R. — that is, dead reckoning.
Senator Smith. I know you said it was dead reckoning, but I
thought the speed was necessary.
Mr. Lowe. Oh, yes; you Ynust have the speed.
Senator Smith. If you will kindly work out and put into the record
the time from which you reckoned the speed, and give me, as nearly
as possible, such information as you had, which enaoled you to report
to the captain Sunday night at 8 o'clock the position of the Titanic, I
shall be glad to have it as part of your sworn testimony.
414 TITAJriO DISASTBB.
Do any of the other members of the committee desire to ask any
questions at this time ?
Senator Pebkins. Mr. Lowe, as assistant navigating officer, what
were the different methods by which you could ascertain the position
of the ship ? How many different methods were thero ?
Mr. Lowe. There is the sun
Senator Pebkins. That is under the head of astronomical observa-
tions. The next one ijB by means of the revolutions of the engines or
propellers; and the next one on the log. Did you take them every
two hours ?
Mr. Lowe. We have the log every two hours, and we are all the
time navigating. We do not take observations once a day. We per-
haps take 25 or 30 observations a day.
Senator Pebkins. The duty of the quartermaster is to take the
record of the log, is it not i
Mr. Lowe. The quartermaster takes the log.
Senator Pebkins. Do you compare that with the revolutions of the
engines ?
Mr. Lowe. We ring him up, and we see how she is doing with the
revolutions, whether she is going faster or going slower: and you will
find a corresponding difference in the log.
Senator Pebkins. Then vou put the position on the chart for the
information of the captain ?
Mr. Lowe. You send it in with the chit.
Senator Smith. Do you know, Mr. Lowe, whether the T^4anic
received on Sunday a wireless message from the Amerika reporting
ice, which message the Titanic repeated to Cape Race ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou hear anything about it ?
Mr. Lowe. I know there was something on about ice, but I do not
know anything about it.
Senator Smith. Did vou hear anything about it ?
Mr. Lowe. I remember there was a position there, on the chart,
something about ice, but I do not remember what it was.
Senator Smith. Do you mean there was something indicated on
the chart ?
Mr. Lowe. There was a slip that showed the position of the ice, the
latitude and longitude; but who reported 't, or anything else, I do
not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. And you did not examine it carefully yourself ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you tell me what that position was from
recollection ?
Mr. Lowe. What position, sir ?
Senator Smith. Ot the ice described in the chart room on this
memorandum.
Mr. Lowe. No, I can not. It is useless for me to try.
Senator Smith. Was this an official memorandum, evidently ?
Mr. Lowe,. What, sir?
Senator Smith. Was this memorandum that ^rou say you saw in
the chart room prepared by some officer of the snip ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir; I suppose it would have been. It could not
have been put there by anybody else, because it was in our own chart
room. The captain has a chart room of his own and we have one.
Senator Smith. Was it lying loose on the table ?
fi ..«».. ^^^^ f9
UTA^O DISASTKB. 415
Mr. Lowe. No; it was stuck in the frame.
Senator Smith. You took it out of the frame?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I did not.
Senator SMirn. Did you ^o up to the frame ?
Mr. Lowe. The frame is just above the table, and I saw it there.
Senator Smfth. Did you go up to it ?
Mr. Lowe. I saw it there casually.
Senator SMriH. What did it say f
Mr. Lowe. I do not know the words — something about 40 some-
thing— ^I do not remember now what it was.
Senator Smfth. Was that the place where they usually kept those
warnings 1
Mr. Lowe. The notice board. We have a notice board.
Senator Smfth. A rack used for that purpose ?
Mr. Lowe. It is more prominent where this chit was, for the simple
reason that you always face that direction when you are working on
the tables. '
Senator Smtth. Were you working on a table I
Mr. Lowe. Yes ; I was working at the slip table.
Senator Smith. And as you were working at the slip table, you
could look up and see this report ?
Mr. Lowe. But I did not take any notice of it. It was only just the
position, the latitude and longitude.
Senator Smith. Can you give that position ?
Mr. Lowe. And the word **ice'^ was above it.
Senator Smith. Can you give that position ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir; I can not. It is no good for me to try.
Senator Smith. You are unable to say whether that was a wireless
communication or whether that information was written down by
some officer on that ship ?
Mr. Lowe. When you come to think of it, it could not have been
anything else but wireless.
Senator Smith. Then, according to your impression, there was a
wirdess warning of that kind in the chart room, mdicating the position
in which ice niight be expected at that hour or at that time ?
Mr. Lowe. That is my conclusion; yes.
Senator Smith. And you did not examine it carefully ? .
Mr. Lowe. No. I just looked at it casually.
Senator Smith. What time of day was this ?
Mr. Lowe. That would be some time after 2, I suppose.
Senator Smith. On Sunday ?
Mr. Lowe. Two p. m., Sunday.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see that memorandum again ?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith Did you ever ask for it again ?
Mr Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Did anybody ever call your attention to it again?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether it was signed by anyone ?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the name of any ship was
attached to it f
Mr. Lowe. No. I expect it was a copy of just the position, and
some message that we received. I do not know.
416 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. No; I am not asking you whether you know all
about that, or whether it was a copy or not. I am asking
Mr. Lowe (interrupting). No; tnere was no signature or anything.
Senator Smith. There was none ?
Mr. Lowe. Xo.
Senator Smith. What did you assume that was put there for, in
that rack ?
Mr. Lowe. For us to know that the ice was there ?
Senator Smith. Was it put there as a warning?
Mr. I^we. I suppose it was, in a way.
Senator Smith. Did it have that effect on you ?
Mr. Lowe. But I am powerless to do anything
Senator Smith. I did not ask that. I asked if it affected you as a
warning ?
Mr. Lowe. I can not say that it did. It simply said that the ice
was there, and that is all I know about it.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate what you saw on that piece
of paper to anyone else ?
Mr. Lowe. 5fo, not that I remember.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the ice referred tq was on
the track of your ship ?
Mr. IjOWE. I think it was to the northward of our track.
Senator Smith. What makes you think so ?
Mr. Ix)WE. That is the idea I have. I do not know. I do not know
what inferences — I thought it was to the north of us.
Senator Smith. You assume it was to the north because the ice-
bergs were coming from the north ? Is that the reason ?
Mr. IjOwe. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. I will read to you a message that is reported to
have been communicated by the Amerika to the Titanic:
S. S. ** Amerika" (via "Tftanic" and Cape Race),
Newfoundland^ April 14, 1912.
Hydrographic Office,
Washington, D. C:
Amerika passed two large icebergs M. 41.27, N. 50, 8 W., on the 14th of April.
Knuth.
Was that the message you saw ?
Mj. Lowe. No, sir; I saw no message, only what I saw was that a
chit was struck in the edge of the frame with the latitude and longitude
down, and I saw no message whatever.
Senator Smith. Did jou hear anythiujg about any warning from
the steamship Califorman having been given ?
Mr. Lowe. No; no.
Senator Smith. Or from any other boat ?
Mr. Lowe. No.
Senator Smith. Or from any other source ?
Mr. Lowe. No, sir.
Senator Smith. This is the only warning you saw ?
Mr. Lowe. I do not say I saw that, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not take particular pains to familiar-
ize yourself with that ?
Mr. Lowe. I did not say I saw that, sir. I did not stipulate that
I saw that, sir.
t( . ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 417
Senator Smith. I did not say you did. I am not saying you saw
this.
Mr. Lowe. I simply saw, as I tell you, a position, and the word
'*Ice'' above it, and the position — ^latitude and lon^tude — stuck in
the angle of a frame on tne chart-room wall, you might say, or side;
and that is all I know about it.
Senator Smith. That was Sunday ?
Mr. Lowe. That was Sunday afternoon.
Senator Smith. Did that look hke a recent or new paper on that
rack?
Mr. Lowe. It was not strikingly so, sir. There was nothing par-
ticular about it.
Senator Smith. If it had been there before
Mr. Lowe. It must have been new, because it had not been there
before.
Senator Smith. Yes; you would have seen it had it been there
before. One more question and I will let you go. Did you hear any
pistol shots ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes.
Senator Smith. And by whom were they fired Sunday night ?
Mr. Lowe. I heard them, and I fired them.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Lowe. As I was going down the decks, and that was as I was
being lowered down.
Senator SMrrn. In lifeboat
Mr. Lowe. Lifeboat No. 14.
Senator SMrrn. What did you do ?
Mr. Lowe. As I was going down the decks I knew, or I expected
every moment, that my boat would double up under my feet. I
was quite scared of it, although of course it would not do for me to
mention the fact to anybody else. I had overcrowded her, but I
knew that I had to take a certain amount of risk. So I thought,
''Well, I shall have to see that nobody else gets into the boat or else
it will be a case''
Senator Smith. That was as it was being lowered ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I thought if one additional body was to fall into
that boat, that slight jerk of the additional weight might part the
hooks or carry away something, no one would &iow what. There
were a hundred and one things to carry away. Then, I thought,
well, I will keep an eye open. So, as we were coining down the
decks, coining down past the open decks, I saw a lot of Itahans,
I^atin people, all along the ship s rails — understand, it was open —
and they were all glaring, more or less hke wild beasts, ready to
spring. That is why I yelled out to look out, and let go, bang,
n^ht along the ship's side.
Senator Smith. How far from the ship's side was the lifeboat you
were in ?
Mr. Lowe. I really do not know. I should say — oh, 3 or 4 feet.
Senator Smith. It cleared each deck 3 to 4 feet ?
>Ir. Lowe. I mean to say she was about that much off the ship's
side.
Senator Smith. Exactly.
>Ir. Lowe. She came down just hke this [indicating], off the ship's
side, 3 feet off.
40475— PT 5—12 5
418 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. There was a space there of from 3 to 4 feet ?
Mr. Lowe. I will withdraw 4 feet and say 3 feet.
Senator Smith. There was a space of 3 feet between the side of the
boat and the ship's side ?
Mr. Lowe. That is right.
Senator Smith. And as you went down you fired these shots ?
Mr. Lowe. As I went down I fired these snots and without intention
of hurting anybody and also with the knowledge that I did not hurt
anybody.
Senator Smith. You are positive of that ?
Mr. Lowe. I am absolutely positive.
Senator Smith. How do you know ?
Mr. Lowe. How do I know? Because I looked where I fired.
Senator Smith. It was a dark night, was it not, to see ?
Mr. Lowe. Oh, but I could see where I was shooting. A man does
not want to shoot over here and look over here [indicating], or to
shoot here and look here [indicating], but to look where he shoots. I
shot between the boat and the ship's side, so these people would hear
and see the discharge. -
Senator Smith. You shot this revolver through that 3-foot space ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I think I fired three times. There were three
decks.
Senator Smith. How far were vou below the boat deck where vou
were loading the passengers when j^ou fired your first shot ?
Mr. Lowe. How far was I below the boat deck?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lowe. I was on the boat deck.
Senator Smith. When you fired the shots?
Mr. Lowe. No; when flowered the passengers.
Senator Smith. I know that. But how far were you below ti.e
boat deck when you fired ?
Mr. Lowe. There is the boat deck, 1 deck, and then 2 deck — tluit
is. A, B, and C.
Senator Smith. Were you below C deck when you fired ?
Mr. Lowe. No; I finished up at C.
Senator Smith. Were you below B deck when you fired ?
x\Ir. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to tell me that these Italians wore
crowding around the boat deck, A deck or B deck, glaring at yo\. <
Mr. Lowe. They were hanging around those open decks, with (ho
windows open, because you do not want better proof than seeing
them.
Senator Smith. You fired these shots up in that 3-foot sT^ace
between the lifeboat you were coming down in and the Titanic f
Mr. Lowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any people on the rail or close to the
ed^e of the top of the sun deck when your hfeboat was lowered ?
.vir. Lowe. Were there people on the sun deck?
Senator Smith. Wlien your hfeboat was lowered ?
Mr. I^WE. No.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Ismay there when your hfeboat u as
lowered ?
Mr. Lowe. The sun deck ? There is no sun deck.
li . ^ if
TITANIC DISASTER. 419
Senator Smith. Well, the boat deck. Some of vour officers call it
the sun deck and some of them call it the boat deck. I mean the top
deck, where the lifeboats were.
Mr. Lowe. No, I did not fire it upward. I did not fire up.
Senator Smith. Where did vou fire ?
Mr. Lowe. I fired horizontally.
Senator Smith. You only haa a space of 3 feet.
Mr. Lowe. -Oh, no. I had more. I had the width of the boat.
I was standing up in the after part of her. From the center line of
the boat would give another 2 feet or so. That would be 5 feet.
Senator Smith. But if you had fired doMmward toward the water
you would have been hmited to that space ?
Mr. Ix)WE. Yes.
Senator Smith. If you fired upward you would fire along the ship's
side ?
Mr. Lowe. Well, I fned horizontally.
Senator Smith. Upward ?
Mr. Lowe. Horizontally.
Senator Smith. In what direction from the ship ?
Mr. Lowe. Along the ship.
Senator Smith. You are positive you did not hit anybody ?
Mr. Lowe. I am absolutely positive I hit nobody. If you shoot
at a man directly you can onlv see a round blur of the discharge,
but if you shoot across him like that [indicating] you will see the
length of it. I shot so for them to know that I was fully armed.
That is the reason.
Senator Smith. -And that you did not propose to have anybody
else in your boat ?
Mr. Lowe. I did not; not a single soul more.
Senator Smfth. Nobody in addition to those who were there %
Mr. Lowe. That is all. I had quite enough.
Senator Smith. And in order that no one should make an attempt
from any deck, you fired how many shots ?
Mr. Ix>W£. I think it was three.
Senator Smith. What did you do with your revolver after that ?
Mr. Lowe. I have got it.
Senator Smith. Did you put it in your pocket ?
Mr. Lowe. I have not got it in my poctet now
Senator Smith. You put it in your pocket after you fired those
three shots ?
Mr. Lowe. Yes; I put it in my pocket and put the safety catch
on, because it is a Browning automatic. There were, I suppose, four
more remaining.
Senator Smith. What we call a seven-shooter?
Mr. Lowe. I do not know what you call it.
Senator Smith. Well, what do you call it ?
Mr. Lowe. It is an automatic. I think it carries eight.
Senator Smith. Did you have any occasion to use it afterwards ?
ilr. Lowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not use it afterwards ?
Mi". Lowe. I did not use it.
Senator Perkins. I suggest that these papers be put in the rerord.
Ihis is a Ust of the survivors [indicating], and this other paper is the
memorandum made by Mr. Pitman in regard to the ship's run.
The Chairman. They may be included as part of the record.
420
'' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
The papers referred to are as follows:
Fvrsi-cUjM passengers who sailed on '^ Titanic,**
Women.
Men
Boys...
143
177
Total
325
First-class passenger survivors.
Women.
Men. . .
Boys
131
68
3
202
Second-class passengers who saiU^ on ** Titanic.**
Men 157
Women and children 128
Total.
285
Seeond-dass passenger sunivofw.
Men
Women and children.
12
106
Total.
118
Tkird-dass passengers according to sex who embarked on the ** Titanic.*'
Southampton.
Cherbourg. . . .
Queenstown..
Total.
Numher of survivors according to sex.
Male 85
Female 93
MBMORANDUM OF MR. PITMAN.
2/20 Daunts Bock Ship.
Time.
S, 771.
24 58
2 20
22.6) 484 (20.14 knta. per hr.
326
1000
96
24.7) 519 (21.0 knta. per hour.
250
3
1st day.
22 38
24
m.
00
44
24 44
it
UTANIO " mSABTKB.
421
24.7) 546 (22.1 knts.
520
26
per
ho\ir.
2nd day.
•
3rd day.
Timo.
TL, 771.
24 00
44
24 44
20. \4
21.00
22.10
3) 63.24
Mean 21.08 hourly speed.
Thereupon, at 2.30 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until
3.30 o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The committee met, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 3.45 o'clock
p. m.
TESTIMOHT OF SECOBD OFFICEB C. H. UOHTOLLEB— Besomed.
Senator Smith. You have already been sworn. You were the
second oflScer, and are the ranking surviving officer, of the Titanic ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. My examination of you in New York went as far
as I care to go at the present time, and I will see if my colleagues care
to ask anything.
Senator Burton, do you desire to ask anything ?
Senator BuKTON. No.
Senator Smith. Senator Bourne ?
Senator Bourne. I would like to ask Mr. Lightoller a few ques-
tions. As I understand, you had 15 compartments, in effect, on the
Titanic?
Mr. Lightoller. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You had a false bottom, which Mve top doors
there to each compartment, that could be closed by electricity in 15
seconds ?
Mr. Lightoller. Quite right.
Senator Bourne. The side doors had to be closed by hand, and yoy
estimate they could be closed in about 20 seconds?
Mr. Lightoller. The upper doors.
Senator Bourne. Proviamg the men were there. Your inference
is that all those doors were closed in the compartments ?
Mr. Lightoller. Yes. I am given to understand from passengers
that every discipline was shown amongst the stewards. They all went
to their water-tight doors and closed them.
Senator Bourne. Taking the boiler room, each boiler room acts as
a compartment by itself, does it not ?
Mr. Lightoller. It does.
Senator Bourne. You had a false bottom below the boiler room
which was a compartment ?
Mr. Lightoller. Exactly.
422 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. And a protection. Was there a bulkhead beside
the boilers, between the boilers themselves and the skin of the ship i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. There was.
Senator Bourne. Could that be closed, so that if the outside should
be pierced and the water come into the bulkheads, it would not come
over and flood the boiler room ?.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not think so. That I can not answer for
certain.
Senator Bourne. Who would have that knowledge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. An engineer.
Senator Bourne. But your impression is that there was an open-
ing there so that it would flood the boiler room in case the skin of the
ship were pierced I
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is so.
Senator Bourne. Is it not customary with naval vessels, men-of-
war, to have those bulkheads between the skin and boilers, so that
there is absolute protection, and in case the skin is pierced, that they
are water-tight, and water does not get into the boiler room ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is a j)rotection from shell fire.
Senator Bourne. Would it not be a protection also from water, in
case the skin were pierced ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Providing the skin was pierced by a shell. It
would prevent the water from entering into the boiler room; but it
would not be sufficient protection against a ram.
Senator Bourne. Would it not be protection against an iceberg in
case of a disaster of this nature ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. An iceberg, I should say, in that case would take
the position of a ram. It mi^t, or on the other hand it might not,
afford sufficient protection.
Senator Bourne. The likelihood is that you would get better pro-
tection by having that bulkhead water-tight, is it not s
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Bourne. And would protect the boiler room to that
extent ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Bourne. Taking the experience that you passed through,
in your judgment as a navigator, what improvements could be made
in the maritime laws or in the rules and regulations governing the
operation of a ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not answer that without serious considera-
tion. I am not in a position — I have not been able to give the matter
sufficient thought — to justly answer that question here. There is no
doubt we might make some improvements, which shipbuilders are
trying to do all the time, and the White Star, as far as 1 know them,
in particular. We have instructions, particularly to the commander
and officers. As far as our side of it is concerned — the officers on
deck — every suggestion we have to offer is met with every considera-
tion, and is deeply considered, as I have proof, by the captain, and
anything that tends toward the improvement of the ship, or members
of the ship, is immediately carried out.
Senator Bourne. Do you not think there is an opportunity to
benefit by the recent experience, in the way of improvements, either
in legislation or in the way of rules and regulations ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No doubt.
tt .,.^^ 9 9
TITAHIO DISASTER. 423
Senator Bourne. But you yourself have come to no conclusions ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not just now, sir.
Senator Bourne. Is it your opinion that a searchlight would be a
benefit or a detriment on a ship f
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I should require practical experience with it
before I could offer any opinion on that.
Senator Bourne. It would certainly be of benefit after a catas-
trophe, or in case of a collision, would it not?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Searchhghts are beneficial; and, on the other
hand, they are detrimental in many instances.
Senator Bourne. They would be detrimental prior to the accident,-
possibly.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Scarchfights are detrimental in this manner:
They are of every assistance to the people who are behind them, but
those on whom the searchlight is shinmg might as well have their
eyes closed; they are bUnded. If we are going into a harbor, and, as
frequently happens in the Harbor of Plymouth, a man-of-war and
the shore stations may be having torpedo attack, in which case search-
lights are being used to a very great extent, we find them so detri-
mental that a signal has been arranged between the Mercantile
Marine and the Admiralty by which we can notify the Admiralty
when we come in, that they may put out their searchlights. Let a
searchlight shine on the bridge of a ship entering the port, and we are
completely blinded, and can see nothing.
Senator Bourne. Then, in your opinion, it would be a detriment
rather than a benefit to have legislation requiring ships in commerce
to carry searchlights ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; I say that it is detrimental to those on
whom the light is shining, but beneficial to those who are behind the
light.
Senator Bourne. In this case it would not have been detrimental
to the iceberg, if it was an iceberg?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Certainly not.
Senator Bourne. It would have been beneficial to the Titanic and
those on board, would it, in your judgment ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I shoulcl judge so, offhand. But I should need to
practice with it at nighttime myself before I could form any decided
opinion.
Senator Bourne. The principal reliance is placed upon the man in
the crow's nest, or the men in tne crow's nest ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. We place no reliance on them.
Senator Bourne. What are they there for.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. They are there to keep a lookout; to assist us.
Senator Bourne. Then, why is no reliance placed upon them ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Bccausc, speaking personally, I never rely on any
lookout. I keep a lookout myself, and so does every other officer.
Senator Bourne. Then, it is merelj to afford a dual opportunity of
getting sight of things that you utilize the crow's nest and the men
uiit?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. We use the men in the crow's nest for keeping a
lookout. Occasionally a man will see a light or a vessel first, par-
ticularly in daytime, when naturally we trust to them seeing.
Especially all through the daytime lookout men are keeping a keen
lookout, and will report a steamer long before she is in sight, appa-
424 TITAinC DISASTBB.
rently, by her smoke. In that instance the lookout might be very
useful, in nighttime, particularly in channels where there are a great
many lights, we may be watching one light, and there may be another
light in our course, and the man in the crow's nest will strike, say, one
bell. That signifies something on the port bow, and caUs our atten-
tion to it. So that no ship can approach close to us without the bridge
being notified, even though the omcer has not himself already seen it
The White Star Co., I may say incidentally, is the only company
in the world, so far as I know, that carries six lookout men. We carry
six men who do nothing else, night and day, from the commencement
to the finish of the voyage, except keep a lookout. They are two
hours on and four off.
Senator Bourne. Two hours on and four off ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Exactly.
Senator Bourne. And the glasses are used by the individual only
after the naked eye has picked up the object ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Eacli man uses them as he wishes. Different
men have different ideas of the glasses, and of usin^ them. Some
keep) them glued to their eyes altogether. I consider that very
detrimental.
Senator Bourne. That is all I care to ask.
Senator Burton. Would it not be worth while to carry search-
lights on trans- Atlantic liners just for the sake of picking up ice in a
locality like this?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It would be an advantage to cany a searchlight
if it is going to be of any benefit at all. If it can be proved bene-
ficial, it would be an advantage.
Senator Burton. Would it not be useful in detecting ice on a dark
night ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say without experience with it.
Senator Burton. What about the crew of the Titanicf How
many were there in the crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as I remember, 71 all told, officers and
men, on deck. The crew — I am sneaking of seamen now.
Senator Burton. Do you regara that as an adequate number ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I can not say.
Senator Burton. How large a crew would there be on the Majestic j
for instance ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We had, I think, 58.
Senator Burton, What is the tonnage of the Majesticf
3ifr. LiGHTOLLER. Ten thousand gross.
Senator Burton. Were there any women left on the deck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Of the Titanicf
Senator Burton. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the port side on deck, I can say, as far as my
own observations went, from my own endeavor and that of others to
obtain women, there were none. I can give you the name of a man
who will give testimony, who was working with me, one of our best men,
a man I picked out especially to man the falls for lowering away.
He went from the port side to the starboard side of the deck, as I clid,
and after that, when she went under water forward, instead of taking
to the water he walked aft the whole length of the boat deck previous
to sliding down the aft fall on the port side, and in the whole length of
the deck and in crossing the bridge he saw two women. They were
I
'' TITANIC " DISASTER. 425
standing amidships on the bridge perfectly still. They did not seem
to be endeavoring to get to one side or the other to see if there were any
boats or not. The whole length of the boat deck, so far as he went, he
did not see any women.
Senator Burton. Do you know what became of those two women ?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. I do not.
Senator Burton. How many compartments were opened by this
collision with the iceberg, in your opmion ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I should judge the fore-peak tank was pierced.
My reason for saying that is that the lamp- trimmer's and storekeeper's
room was on the starboard side there, and they were both turned in.
They felt the shock. They turned out and had a look around under
the forecastle head, and there seemed to be nothing doing, and they
went back to bed. They were, I suppose, closer to tne point of impact
than anyone else in the ship.
Senator Burton. That is the very forward compartment, is it?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I am speaking of these two men's room. After
thev had gone back to bed a few minutes, the junior came along and
told these men, ** You had better put your pants on." So they got
up again. This time they went forward, and the chief officer was
there, and they heard a whistling sound. On locating this^ they
found it was the exhaust pipe from the fore-peak tank; that is, the
tank down in the bottom oi the ship. They put their hands over
this pipe and found the air was rushing out, proving that water
was entering the fore peak. They looked m the storeroom and they
could see right down on the tanlc top, and it was dry, proving that
if she received any injury it was below the fore peak. Therefore,
that leaves us with the fore peak full and the storerooms dry.
I judge No. 1, of which I have no proof, was pierced, and No. 2,
and I should think No. 3.
Senator Burton. Do you think No. 4 was pierced ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. There is no No. 4. No. 4 is No. 6 stokehold.
You next come to No. 6 stokehold.
Senator Burton. Was that pierced, do you think?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Burton. So the injury was confined, in your judgment,
to the three compartments ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Burton. I understand you have some information in
regard to the messages to the Cedric, and in regard to some conversa-
tions with Mr. Ismay. Please state them both.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Previous to having the conversation with Mr.
Ismay in regard to any telegrams that were sent to our office in
New X ork with reference to holding the Cedric, the other three officers
and myself had spoken about it casually, saving we knew the Cedric
was in, and we thought it a jolly good idea if we could get home with
her if we were in time to catch her. We were very much disap-
pointed at the delay through fog. We were saying all the time,
** It is a great pity ii we will miss the Cedric, If we could only get
home in tune to get everybody on board the Cedric, we shall probably
be able to keep the men together as much as possible.'' Otlrer-
wi^e, you understand, once the men get in New York, naturally tl ese
men are not going to hang around New York or hang around any-
where else. They want to get to sea to earn money to keep their
< t .«, ^ > 9
426 TITANIC DISASTEK.
wives and families, and they would ship off. You can not find a
sailor but what will ship off at once if he gets the opportunity. They
siraplv would stand this off as a loss or stand it off as a bad debt,
and probably try to ship off somewhere. In a case like this, where
the men are brought into prominence, they are very frequently
offered berths immediately. C^ertain of the steerage passengers
were offered berths by the saloon passengers. Tliey were offered
berths to go and be servants, or whatever it was until they found
employment.
Our crew would in all probability have done the same, and we would
have lost a number of them, probably some very important witnesses.
They would perhaps ship on some yacht, which very often they do.
A great many of them, quartermasters especially, ship on gentlemen's
yachts in New York, because they know they are thoroughly capable
men. They are just as good men as they can obtain in the worldf, and
there is great demand for them ; much to our regret, because we lose
them.
On having a conversation with Mr. Ismay he also mentioned about
the Cedric and asked me my opinion about it, and I frankly stated
that it was the best thing in the world to do if we could catch the
Cedric.
Later on he remarked that owing to weather conditions it was very
doubtful if we would catch the Cedric. I said, ''Yes; it is doubtful.
It will be a great pity if she sails without us.*' '*Do you think it will
be advisable to hold her up?" I said, ''Most undoubtedly; the best
thing in the world to hold her up."
A telegram was dispatched asking them to hold the Cedric until we
got in, to which we received the reply that it was not advisable to
hold the Cedric. He asked what I thought about it. I said, '*I
think we ought to hold her, and you ought to telegraph and insist on
their holding her and preventing the crew getting aroimd in New
York." We discussed the pros and cons and deemed it advisable to
keep the crew together as much as we coidd, so we could get home,
and we might then be able to choose our important witnesses and let
the remainder go to sea and earn money for themselves. So I believe
the other telegram was sent.
I may say that at that time Mr. Ismay did not seem to me to be
in a mental condition to finally decide anything. I tried my utmost
to rouse Mr. Ismay, for he was obsessed with the idea, and kept
repeating, that he ought to have gone down with the ship because ne
foimd that women had gone down. I told him there was no such
reason; I told him a very great deal; I tried to get that idea out of
his head, but he was taken with it; and I know the doctor tried, too;
but we had difficulty in arousing Mr. Ismay, purely owing to that,
wholly and solely, that women had gone down in the boat and he had
not.
You can call the doctor of the Carpaihia, and he will verify that
statement.
Senator Burton. Is that all you desire to say ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is aU, sir.
Senator Burton. That is all I desire to ask.
Senator Newlands. I heard Mr. Lightoller testify in New York
and I simply desire to ask one question.
You say a searchlight is not aetrimental to those behind it ?
ct .^^^^,^^ ft
TITANIC DISASTEB. 427
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Burton. But it is detrimental to those on whom it shines ^
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Burton. Then would you say a searchhght would or
would not be desirable? How would the use of a searchlight be in
any sense detrimental to a sliip at sea ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. These gentlemen spoke about after we had left
the sliip,you understand, and a searchhght being used then. It was
that time to which I had reference. If you had shone a searchlight
on the boats as they were being lowered, or on the boats as they were
being unhooked from the tackles in the water it would have been ver\^
detrimental to the men in the boat. They could not have see what
they were doing. We are far better off in tlie dark, because anyone
that shines a light on us bUnds us.
Senator Newlands. In discerning objects at sea
Mr. LiGHTOLLER (interrupting). In discerning objects at sea, for
instance, I will give a case in point. If you were coming up on a
schooner, you can not see her distinctly. She shows no Ught ; around
about Nantucket and in along Long Island, I mean. They may have
a light burning, and it may be invisible, being screened by their sail
or something hke that. Tliat ship may be standing right across j'our
bows, and you may not be able to distinguish immediately which
way she is heading, in the dusk or in the dark. If you had a search-
light then to put right straight on that sliip, instantly you would be
guided as to which way to put your helm.
As it is, if you can not show any hght there is nothing to guide you ;
and you are fairly close to her, and you have to alter your lielm, and
give the ship you are in plenty of helm in case you should happen to
be crossing her bows. Of course we always go around a vesseKs
stern when we can see her stern.
Senator Newlands. In that case the use of a searchhght would be
beneficial, would it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It would be beneficial if you could use it as quick
as you can an ordinary lamp, by merely pressing a key. But you
understand they would have to be very careful with them, they have
to be k?pt covered up.
Senator Newlands. But in navigating, with a view of discerning
objects that may be in the way or near the way of a ship's course, can
vou imagine that a searchlight would be at all detrimental to that
ship?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You must take into consideration that if anyone
is going to have them, all are going to have them; and if you are in a
crowded channel, like the Enghsh Channel, and another ship has the
same idea you have, and you are flickering your searchlights around
on each other, you will cause a great deal of difficulty. There would
have to be legislation to prevent your using your searchlight in close
waters. You could not use the searchlight anywhere where the
shipping is crowded.
Senator Newlands. If two ships were approaching each other,
each with a searchlight, you think the use ot the searcnlights might
be a source of danger to each of them ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I have no doubt of it, unless they were com-
pelled— they would have to legislate and arrange it in some manner
SO that one ship would not blind the other.
428 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Newlands. That is all.
Senator Smith. You say you do not regard the lookout in the
crow's nest as important ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, no; I did not say that, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. This gentleman [indicating the reporter] will
read what I said.
Senator Fletcher. He said he did not rely on them.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I Said I did not rely on tnem.
Senator Fletcher. That is what I understood him to say.
Senator Smith. Why are the eyes of the lookouts exaiuined ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. To prove that they can see clearly and dis-
tinctly. They are there to offer us every assistance they can.
Senator Smith. Why are they furnished wth a telephone and vari-
our bells, the prompt use of wnich is intended to advise the officers
of obstacles in the way ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Tney are there to assist us and to keep a lookout.
Senator SMrrn. Are there any other men who were enaployed on
the Titanic, that you know of, or who are employed in the White Star
Line, who receive fixed pay and a certain percentage over ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Other than the lookouts ?
Senator Smith. No; I did not ask that.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The lookouts receive so much per month, the
same as the men, and then they get 5 shiUings per voyage of what
we call ** lookout money.
Senator Smith. That is lookout money ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not only that, but they get other unofficial
benefits.
Senator Smith. Do any other oflicers or members of the crew
receive that additional compensation ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not on the same scale.
Senator Smith. Not on the same scale ? On any scale ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs; the quartermasters receive 5 shilUngs a
month extra.
Senator Smith. They are the only officers that receive extra ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. They are not officers; tliey are petty officers.
Senator Smith. They are the only ones ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The only ones ; yes.
Senator SMrrn. Are experienced men usually selected for the
lookouts ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Speaking for myself, I always select old lookout
men that I know; ana as a rule, the lookout men run perhaps a year
in the crow's nest in one ship. For instance, the men I had with me
on the Titanic had been with me on the Oceanic for years, doing
othing but keeping a lookout. TJiey have their other special
duties at other times, as well.
Senator Smith. Do they get to be expert in detecting objects on
t e horizon ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. They do. They are very smart at it, indeed.
There is one man here, who has been subpoenaed, who is the smartest
man I know at it.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Symous.
Senator Smith. He has been subpoenaed ?
^* TITANIC '^ DISASTER. 429
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he in the crow's nest the night of the disaster ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. He was in there after his watch came on. Up
to that time he had not been on watch that night. He had been
on watch in the afternoon.
Senator Smith. But not on the watch extending from 10 to 12
oVlock ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. No, sir; Fleet and Lee were there then.
Senator Smith. As I understood you in your testimony in New
York, your watch expired at 10 o'clock Sunday night ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That is so.
Senator Smith. If I recollect correctly, you took charge of the
loading of the lifeboats.
Mr. LiGHTOLXER. On the port side.
Senator Smith. On the port side.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The chief oflScer also loaded some of the boats on
the port side. I may also say, in regard to the testimony in regard
to Mr. Ismay, although I can not vouch for the source, yet it was
given to me from a source such that I have every reason to believe
Its truth
Senator Smith. Before or since this occurred ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Since.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. On the Carvathia.
Senator Smith. En route to New York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Or after she had arrived ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Before she arrived in New York.
Senator Smith. Give the information.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is that Chief Officer Wilde was at the star-
board collapsible boat in which Mr. Ismay went away, and that he
told Mr. Ismay, '*There are no more women on board the ship."
Wilde was a pretty big, powerful chap, and he was a man that would
not argue very long. Mr, Ismay was right there. Naturally he was
there close to the Doat, because he was working at the boats and he
had been worki^ at the coUapsible boat, and that is why he was
there, and Mr. Wilde, who was near him, simply bundled him into
the boat.
Senator Smith. You did not say that before ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ; but I believe it is true. I forget the source.
I am sorry I have forgotten it.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Wilde survive?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He did not.
Senator Smith. Who reUeved you on watch that night at 10
o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The first officer, Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He did not.
Senator Smith. Who told you that this powerful officer, Mr. Wilde,
ordered Mr. Ismay to get into the boat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. As I now recollect your testimony — and I have it
here — ^you said you were not acquainted with Mr. Ismay.
430 UTANIC DISASTBE.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I have known Mr. Ismay for 14 years, since I
first met him.
Senator Smith. You did not speak to him that night ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I did.
Senator Smith. You told me that you looked at one another, and
said nothing.
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I might not have spoken and I might have said
*'Good evening.''
Senator Smith. I mean after the collision
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. After the collision; no.
Senator Smith. One moment. After the collision, you said, you
saw Mr. Ismay standing on the deck ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Looking out at the sea ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I do not know what he was looking at.
Senator Smith. You were standing out on the deck about 20 feet
from him?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You say now that you did not say that?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. No, Sir.
Senator Smith. Would not that be true ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I do not tliink so. I was walking along that
side of the deck.
Senator Smith. How far from Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I Walked past him, within a couple of feet of him.
Senator Smith. And he said nothing to you, and you said nothing
to him ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I might have said *'Good evening." Beyond
that I said nothing. I had work on hand; something else to do.
Senator Smith. Did he say anything else to you ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. Not that I know of. He may have said *'Good
evening.'' Perhaps I said that, and perhaps I did not. I do not
remember.
Senator Smith. In a great peril like that, passing the managing
director of the company that owned the ship, you passed him on the
ship, and said *^Good evening" ?
ill-. LlGHTOLLER. I would, as I would to any passenger that I knew.
Senator Smith. And he passed you and said ^^ Good evening" ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. He was standing still.
Senator Smith. And he said **Good evening" ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I could not say. I say I may have said *^Good
evening" and may not, and he may have said it and may not.
Senator Smith. I only want to know as well as you can recollect.
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I can not say for certain.
Senator Smith. My recollection of the testimony is that you said
you did not speak to him.
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I am not certain. If I did speak, it was purely
to say "Good evening," and nothing more and nothing less. I spoke
to Mr.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the collision ?
Mr. LlGHTOLLER. I think you will find that in the testimony.
Senator Smith. I know I will find it there, but I want it again.
Your recollection is just a little better to-day than it was the other
day, and I would like to test it out a little.
ti ».,_. « 9}
TITANIC DISASTEB. 431
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. My mind was fresher on it then, perhaps, than it
is now.
The question was read by the stenographer, as follows:
How long was that after the collision ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, perhaps half an hour.
Senator Smith. How many lifeboats had been loaded ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. None had been loaded.
Senator Smith. Had the order been given to clear away ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you started to clear away ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir; I was walking around the deck then
distributing the men all around the deck, talone off boat covers.
Senator Smith. Removing boat covers and distributing the men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Distributing the men to the boats, and they were
removing boat covers.
Senator Smith. What men were you distributing ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Seamen.
Senator Smith. How many at each boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As many as I thought necessary.
Senator Smith. How many did you think necessary ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As many as I had.
Senator Smith. How many did you get ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say. The watch below was coming
up all the time.
Senator Smith. Did you get more than three or four ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say. About three or four.
Senator Smith. Did you get 8 or 10 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ; about three or four.
Senator Smith. You were placing these men at the different sta-
tions, removing the covers from the lifeboats, and preparing to load
and lower them ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. Well, the order had been given to clear away, had
it not ?
\L-. LiGHTOLLER. YeS.
Senator Smith. What did that mean ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was in the act of clearing them. There had
been no orders to load or lower.
Senator Smith. Had there been any orders in reference to the
women and children, at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No) uot to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. How soon after that time were the orders given to
put the women and children into these hfeboats?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I dare say about 10 minutes or a quarter of an
hour.
Senator Smith. About 10 minutes?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Or a^quarter of an hour.
Senator Smith. That would be 45 minutes after the impact ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senate r Smith. How soon did you get to loading the lifeb( ats « n
J our side and under vour directit n?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As feoon as tlie boats were cleared away.
t< ..^^.^^^ ff
432 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I asked you with reference to time. Did you get
ready to lower them within an hour after the boat was struck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I dare say so.
Senator Smith. How long was the boat above the water, if you
kn(iW, after she was struck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. About how long ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As far as I know, she sank at 2.20.
Senator Smith. And what time was she struck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I am only going by what I have heard. I do not
know. About 20 minutes to 12, I believe.
Senator Smith. She struck at 11 .40.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. She was struck.
Senator Smith. She was struck. And sank, then, at 2.20 ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. 2.30.
Senator Smith. Between the hour she was struck and the time she
sank was 2 hours ?
Senator Bourne. From 11.40 to 2.20 would be 2 hours and 40 min-
utes.
Senator Smith. That would be 2 hours and 40 minutes; yes. It
took an hour to prepare the boats, did it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I cau not say; it would only be guesswork.
Senator SMrrn. You are the ranking officer, and I want you to tell
us as near as you can.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Very well. I would have to go absolutely into
all the details as to what is required in working the boat. There are
a great many details. I think also the circumstances might be taken
into consideration. I consider that the seamen did their duty, and
were as smart as anyone else, and those boats were put out. But it
is very difficult to be pinned down to a question ol a few minutes.
The boats were gotten out, and they were gotten out with all prompti-
tude, I can say; but further than that I can not say.
Senator Smith. Were they gotten out with their full complement
of oarsmen ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We were not undertaking a boat drill then, sir;
we were saving life, and were using the men to the best of my knowl-
edge and ability.
Senator SMrrn. How many men ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As a rule, I put about two seamen in a boat.
There is no use in sending too many men away and then finding your-
self short. The idea was
Senator Smfth. You knew how many boats you had ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator SMrrn. How many did you have ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We had 16.
Senator Smith. You could not send very many men away if you
sent four in a boat.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And I sent the boatswain and about half a dozen
men down to open the doors. That took some time.
Senator Smith. I heard you say that. No matter about that.
Now, let us get along a little easier. You say you put two oarsmen
in each boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two scamcH as far as they would run; toward
the latter end, I think one man and a steward.
ti r^^.^^^ ff
TITAKIC DI8ASTBB. 483
Senator Smith. You put in an officer, did you not, or two ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. Or a quartermaster or two ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrra. When you put the quartermasters in, how many of
those did you put in ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I coukl not say.
Senator Smith. Several ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Only found out later on. I could only tell by
the men who reported to me as having been in certain boats.
Senator Smith. Yes; but the point I am coming to is what you said
in your testimony the other day, that being unable to get seamen to
man these boats you took quartermasters.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Well, quartermasters, you may say, rank with
seamen.
Senator Smith. Ah. But I wanted to know whether you
Mr. LiGHTOLLER (interposing). When I speak of seamen I mean
also quartermasters.
Senator Smith. Do the quartermasters take charge in the lifeboat
drills ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Undoubtedlv.
Senator Smith. And do they handle the oars ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. They do what they are told to do.
Senator Smith. Did any quartermasters handle oars when the tests
were made of the two lifeboats in Southampton before leaving?
Mr.' LiGHTOLLER. I could not say. As a general rule there would
be enough men in a boat without the quartermaster having to take
an oar. If an officer goes in a boat the quartermaster takes an oar,
and if an officer is not in a boat the quartermaster takes the tiller.
Senator Smith. Did you put any passengers into the boats that
3-ou lowered, because of their abiUtv to handle oars and properly man
the lifeboat t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. T jDut the men in because they said they were
seamen — or rather he said he was a seaman. I put one man in because
he said he was a seaman, or rather a yachtsman.
Senator Smith. Who was he ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Maj. Peuchcn.
Senator Smith. The man who testified here yesterday?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you say that there were no seamen there to
put into that boat, and therefore he was ordered in?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did.
Senator Smith. Wliat about it; is that true?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. As a matter of fact, I ordered two seamen into
that boat, as far as I remember, and then, when I turned around to
lower away, when I asked if everything was all right, I got an answer
from the after fall, but I got no reply from the forward fall. Then
I turned around and asked for a seaman, but apparently no seaman
was there. While I was asking for a seaman some one sang out,
''Aye, aye," and then I gave the order to lower away. When the
boat was half way downi some of the women sang out that they had
only one man in the boat. This was owing to the fact that this
seaman stepped out of the boat, unknown to me, going to the fall.
He knew I was short of a man to lower away the fall, and therefore
40475— FT 5—12 6
434 TITAKIO DISASTER.
he left his station in the boat to go to the fall. Then Maj. Peuchen,
who stood right alongside, said that he would go, or offered to go.
I asked him if he was a seaman, or whether he was sailor enough to
go out to the fall from where he was. It was seaman's work to get
out to the fall and then get down to the boat, so I told him if he was
sailor enough to get out to the fall and get into the boat to go ahead,
and so he did, and he went in the boat.
Senator Smith. How many seamen were there in that boat, and
what was the number of it, if you know ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No. 6, I believe.
Senator Smith. How many people did it contain when you got
ready to lower it into the water ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I think I have given all that in my testimony.
Senator Smith. I know; but I have forgotten it.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Well, I have forgotten i , too.
Senator Smith. And you do not care to make any statement
about it ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, the first boat was rather diffi-
cult to load, was it not, on account of passengers hanging back a
Uttle ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I could not say. They were not at all eager to
get into the boat, anyway, any of them. 1 had to sing out. Natu-
rally, no one looked on it as serious and they were not in any hurry to
go down to the sea in a boat.
Senator Smith. How many people do you think you had in that
first boat, No. 6 ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Twenty ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. I could not say, sir; as near as I can recollect I
have alreadv given you.
Senator omith. What was the capacity of that boat — water ca-
pacity and lowering capacitv ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. The cubical capacity was 665 feet.
Senator Smith. How many people would that accommodate ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. In absolutely smooth water, under the most fav-
orable conditions, the board of trade allows 10 feet to each person.
Senator Smith. How many persons would that be ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That is 65^.
Senator Smith. That was a clear night, was it not ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Perfectly clear, sir.
Senator Smith. Everything was favorable for the lifeboat if it had
its maximum capacitv, so far as you know ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. When thev were in the water, so far as I could
see from the deck.
Senator Smith. How much difference do you make between the
safe capacity of the lifeboat in the water, and up at the boat deck,
hanring at the davits ? *
^&. LiOHTOLLER. Well, with a brand new ship, and all brand new
gear, brand new boats, and everything in the pink of condition, a boat
might be safely lowered — you can not guarantee it — she might go
down safely with perhaps 20 to 25 in her.
Senator Smith. But ir the boat happened to be a boat that had been
across the sea enough times to impair her as a lifeboat on such a
vessel, how many people would sucn a boat hold ?
ti „ ^ 7 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 435
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. But, in your judgment, in order to hold 25 people
safely while being lowered into the water, everything would have to
be new and in the pink of condition ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Precisely.
Senator Smith. You made a statement a few minutes ago about
Mr. Ismay which evidently was a voluntary statement. No one
asked you about it. Why did you not make that statement in New
York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccausc the controversy in regard to the tele-
F-am had not been brought up then, or brought to my knowledge;
mean all this paper talk there has been about this telegram.
Senator Smith. Has there been paper talk about a telegram ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Undoubtedly there has.
Senator Smith. And that is the reason you were prompted to make
this disclosure?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccausc I think I am principally responsible for
the telegram being sent.
Senator Smith. And you sent it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. You delivered it to the wireless ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. Who did ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did you write it out?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. Did you speak to the operator about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not.
Senator Smith. Have you spoken to him about it since ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I have not.
Senator Smith. But you wish to be understood as saying that you
urged Mr. Ismay to send it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether it was sent or not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I KHow it was sent.
Senator Smith. How do you know it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Bccause Mr. Ismay told me it had been, and
showed me the reply.
Senator Smith. What time was that that he showed you the
reply and the message with reference to the arrival of the Carpathia
in N ew York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Can not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it before your arrival in New York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was.
Senator Smith. It was on board the CarpatMaf
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Ismay apparently sent the telegram after I
had advised him. He then received a reply, as I understand, from
Mr. Franklin, which he read to me, and asfced m^^urther advice with
regard to holding the Cedric: and I advised him further.
Senator Smith. I understand you did not get into a lifeboat your-
self on the deck of the shij) ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I got in, yes; I was in them all.
Senator Smith. Did you get into them all ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs; and got out again.
436 TITAKIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. But you did not get away in a lifeboat from the
deck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. When did the Carpathia arrive at the Cunard docks
in New York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I havc not got the time, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you got the day of the week ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Thursday night.
Senator Smith. When did you suggest to Mr. Ismay that he send
this telegram ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I should think the first time was on Wednesdav —
whenever the first telegram was sent. It might have been Tuesday.
Senator Smith. But you have no recollection of the hour of the
day when this talk took place?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I could not say exactly.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he sent more than one
telegram ?
\lr. LiGHTOLLER. So I believc. Mr. Franklin replied to that tele-
gram, and another one was sent, further urging him to hold the
Cedric,
Senator Smith. But you are imable to say, of your own knowledge,
what time on Wednesday this telegram was sent ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you know at that time that an inquiry had
been ordered by the Senate ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Certainly not, or we should never have dreamed
of sending the telegram. Our whole and sole idea was to keep the
crew together for the inquiry, presumably at home. We naturally
did not want any witnesses to get astray.
Senator Smith. Did you know when the Cedric was to sail?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, Thursdav morning. I think I even sug-
gested, if they would not hold her at the dock, to exchange at
Quarantine.
Senator Smith. You made that suggestion ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did.
Senator Smith. To whom?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. To Mr. Ismay. Our whole idea was to get them
on board the Cedric,
' Senator Bourne. Your idea was to keep them together, take care
of them, and furnish them transportation back to their homes, was
it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Back to where the inquiry would be; and, natu-
rally, human nature will try to get the men back to their wives and
fanmies as soon as possible. Their income stops, you know, from the
time the wreck occurs, legally.
Senator Bourne. It was one of the ships of your line?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEi^ Which ?
Senator Bourne. The Cedric?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. YcS.
Senator Bourne. And it is customary in catastrophes of tliis na-
ture to do that, is it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is, in anything like that, to choose your own
company's ships, because everything is more comfortable lor them.
They are your own fellows, and you can borrow clothing, etc., from
them.
i( , ^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 437
Senator Bourne. You said the other da^ that you were blown
away by an explosion from the side of the Titanic twice, or by some
force?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Not exactly from the side; from the blower,
which is in front of the forward funnel.
Senator Smith. I want to ask whether, in your judgment, that was
from an explosion or from the force of the air through the blower ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. It was certainly air through the blower, and be-
hind that was a great force, and that force, in my opinion, was from
the boilers. I have heard great controversy as to Doilers exploding
owing to coming in contact with salt water, by men who are capable
of giving an opinion; but there seems to be an open question as to
whether cold water actually does cause boilers to explode. I was
speaking to a gentleman yesterday who said it was very probably the
rush of cold water goin^ down below at such a terrific rate, and then
the hot air being forceaout. I do not quite follow that, myself. In
my judgment, it was a boiler explosion — a rush of steam, anyway.
Senator Smith. You were forced away from
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB (interrupting). From this blower.
Senator Smith. And finally caught an overturned collapsible boat
and got on top of it ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Finally; yes.
Senator Smith. Your watch expired Sunday night at 10 o'clock.
Did you see in the chart room of the Titanic any memoranda in the
rack advising that you were in the vicinity of ice ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Can not remember seeing anything.
Senator Smith. Did you see a telegram from the ATnerika?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Can not remeniDer seeing any.
Senator Smith. Did you see a telegram from the Caiifomianf
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Can not remember seeing any.
Senator Smith. Did you see any such memoranda ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Can not remember seeing any such memo-
randum.
Senator Smith. Was such a notation made on the chart ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I Can not remember seeing any, myself, because
I did not look.
Senator Smith. Has anybody told you such notation was made on
the chart ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Yes; I believe it was marked on the chart. ^
Senator SMrrn. Who told you ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I thuxk it was Mr. Boxhall.
Senator SMrrn. What is his position ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. He is fourth.
Senator Smith. Fourth officer ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Ycs.
Senator SMrrn. Was he on watch Sunday night, or at his post of
duty ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. At his post of duty.
Senator Smith. On Sunday night ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. Undoubtedly.
Senator SMrrn. What time ; do you know ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEB. I beUcve he was on the 8 to 12 watch.
Senator SMrrn. That would take him two hours beyond your
watch?
438 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. More than two hours, considering what the clock
went back.
Senator Smith. The clock went back some at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Yes.
Senator Smith. I beUeve you said you did not see this chart record
of ice, yourself ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. The position marked on the chart ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No; I do not remember seeing it.
Senator Smith. And no one called it to your attention at the time
you left your watch Sunday night ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. The mark on the chart ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No.
Senator Smith. No one called your attention to any telegram or
wireless from any ship warning you of ice ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. les.
Senator Smith. Who ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I do not know what the telegram was. The com-
mander came out when I was relieved for lunch. I think it was. It
may have been earUer; I do not remember wnat time it was. I
remember the commander coming out to me some time that day and
shoMdng me a telegram, and tliis nad reference to the position of ice.
Senator Smith. Giving what ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. An approximate position and presumably the
maximum eastern longitude.
Senator Smith. A warning to you of its proximity ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Giving the position. No warning, but giving the
position — a mere bald statement of fact.
Senator Smith. Did you regard it as a warning when you got that
information ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. We get those repeatedly and various other
things, and we regard them as information.
Senator Smith, Had you received any other warning, from the
time you left Southampton, of that character?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Not that I know of.
Senator Smith. This was the first warning you got ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. As far as I know.
Senator Smith. Did it warn you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. It informed us, naturally, and warned us.
Senator Smith. What did you do about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Worked approximately the time we should be up
to this position.
Senator Smith. What did you find ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Somewherc around 11 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Did you report that fact to anyone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I did.
Senator Smith. To whom ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. The first officer.
Senator Smith. Murdock ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. YcS.
Senator Smith. What time ? »
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I think when he relieved me at lunch time I spoke
about it first. I spoke about it in the quarters, unofficially, and I also
spoke about it, naturally, when he relieved me at 10 o'clock.
" TITANIC " DISASTBB. 439
Senator Smith. What was the conversation between you ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I remarked on the general condition of the
weather, and so on, etc., and then I just mentioned, as I had done
previously, '* We will be up around the ice somewhere about 1 1 o'clock,
I suppose.'' That is all. ^
Senator Smith. That is all you said to him ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. With regard to the ice; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you say anything more to him about it at the
time you left the watch at 10 o'clock ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. Did you speak to the lookout ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. While you were on watch ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. Did you admonish the lookout men ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you say to them i
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. I told the sixth officer, Mr. Moody, to ring up
the crow's nest and tell them to keep a sharp lookout for ice, particu-
larly small ice and growlers. That was received and replied to — and
also to pass the word along.
Senator Smith. How do you know it was replied to i
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Because I could hear it.
Senator Smith. You heard it yourself ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Moody survive ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. Did you do anything else about it i
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not talk with the captain about it ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Nothing but the conversation I have already
spoken of.
Senator Smith. This conversation was with Murdock i
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. No; I saw the captain come out; I do not know
when it was, but perhaps somewhere in the morning or at lunch time,
and he showed me a telegram with regard to the position of the ice.
We spoke about the ice then. You have it in my previous testimony,
w^hen the captain came out in the evening, that we spoke about the
ice also.
Senator Smith. Aside from this warning that you sa}^ was received,
did vou have any reason to believe you were in the vicinity of ice ?
ifr. LlOHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. Are you required under the regulations of the
White Star Line to consult the chart before going on watch ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did vou do when you consulted the chart ?
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. We usually just take a glance at the chart and
the dead reckoning, and that is sufficient out in the open water. We
are usually informed bv the senior ofiicer, frequently during the
watch, of the position of the ship. We take stellar observations and
so on. We are continually in touch with the chart.
Senator Smith. What was the hour, as nearly as you can recall,
-when you were first advised of your proximity to ice i
Mr. LlOHTOLLER. Somewhcre about noon.
t< „^„. ^^^^ ff
440 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. About noon on Sunday ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Somewhere around noon; yes.
Senator Smith. And the only persons to whom you spoke regard-
ing the matter, that you can now recall, were Mr. Murdock and the
captain ? t
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And the captain ; yes.
Senator Smith. What time did you speak to the captain about it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When the captain brought it out.
Senator Smith. What time did he bring it out ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Say he brought it out somewhere about noon 1
Senator Smith. About noon ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Or possibly 1 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Wliat time did you speak to Murdock ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. When he reUeved me at 10 o'clock, and when he
reheved me at lunch.
Senator Smith. What time did you lunch?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Half past 12.
Senator Smith. Then you spoke both with the captain and with
Murdock some time about noon on Sunday, about ice ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Probably around about 12 o'clock.
Senator Smith. And you spoke to no one else about it until you
were reheved at 10 o'clock that night, just before the coUision.
Do you know what speed the ship was making when you were off
watch at 10 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator SMrrn. Do you know her position at 10 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir.
Senator Smith. My colleague suggests that j'ou state whether it is
customary for the officer of tne watch to know the speed of the boat.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Approximately.
Senator Smith. How is he informed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. By the junior officer.
Senator Smith. Are there any regulations regarding that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No.
Senator Smith. It is simply a custom of the ship?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is the custom of discipline, not only of the ship,
but everything else; it is discipline.
Senator Smith. I understand; but you say there are no regulations
regarding it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not that I can recall at the present moment.
Senator Smith. It is merely custom ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Of couFse.
Senator Smith. You are not required to know it or to communicate
it, but you may do so if you want to ? Is that the way vou sav you
doit?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You are required to do your duty, and that is
common in doing your duty.
Senator Smith. Did you know the speed of the ship during the time
you were officer of the watch, from 6 o'clock on Sunday night until
10 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Do I remember what she was steaming at that
•time? I shoukl say about 21 i knots.
Senator Smith. And how do vou reach that conclusion ?
it ..^^.^^.^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 441
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. From the information I received from the junior
officer with regard to the revolutions that the ship was making, from
my own observations of the ship, and from what they were allowing
in the dead reckoning.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you how many revolutions they were
making ?
Mr. IjIQhtoller. I can not remember.
Senator Smith. It would be quite important, in order to ascertain
the speed of the ship, that the revolutions should be known, would
it not?
Mr, LiGHTOLLER. The revolutions are always known and are
recorded.
Senator Sboth. If the officer were taking the ship's position and did
not note its speed it would be rather a difficult matter to' note its cor-
rect position, would it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The ofiicer of the watch takes the position, and
the junior officers do the navigation at nighttime, so they are con-
versant with the ship's speed, and they allow that speed for working
out. the senior officers' observations.
Senator Smith. From what junior ofiicer did you get your infor-
mation that night ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it Mr. Lowe ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was whoever was on deck at that time.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Lowe on deck at that time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xo; the fourth and sixth.
Senator Smith. Senator Perkins w^ants to ask a question.
Senator Perkins. When you were relieved on watcli, Capt.
Lightoller
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I am not ** captain."
Senator Perkins. You have a certificate as captain, have you not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Perkins. Then you are entitled to the honor.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; I do not claim the honor of the title '* cap-
tain." I am plain **mister," as yet.
Senator Perkins. When the officer is relieved on the bridge the
course should be given to him, that he may know in which direction
he is to steer, and he watches the compass during his watch to see
that the quartermaster is carrying out his instructions; is not that
the case?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Well, in a sense it is. It is not, actually, in
detail. The detail of that is this:
We have a standard compass and a steering compass. The stand-
ard compass is the compass we go by. That is, the course that is
handed over from one senior officer to another^ the standard course.
The junior officer goes to the standard compass, which is connected
i^ith the wheelhouse by a bell, or by a bell push, wire and bell, and
^rhen she is on her coui-se he rings that bell continually, showing the
ship is on her course with the standard compass.
The other officer takes her head inside the wheelhouse from the
compass the quartermaster is steering by. The standard course is
on a board, and the steering compass course is also on a board.
Therefore, the quartermaster uses the board that is there for the steer-
ing compass. The senior officer of the watch looks to the standard
compass board and pasvses that course alimg.
442 TITANIC DISASTBE.
Senator Perkins. The duty of the officer in charge of the bridgei
the senior officer, is to see that she is steering the course that nks
been given, is it not ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The senior officers can not go inside of the wheel-
house to look at the compass after nighttime; tney would be blinded.
The junior officers look at it for them. They hold a captain's cer-
tificate.
Senator Fletcher. How many voyages have you made across the
ocean ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know, sir; I have been to sea for about
24 years.
Senator Fletcher. In what capacities?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From apprentice right up to what I am — ^first
officer.
Senator Fletcher. How long have you been first officer ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. About three years.
Senator Fletcher. How long have vou been on ships sailing from
Southampton or Belfast to New York ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We do not sail from Belfast. We sail from
Southampton. I have been sailing from Southampton since our
boats went down there.
Senator Fletcher. How long is that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think it is about seven years since first we
went down there.
Senator Fletcher. Then you have had considerable experience
in navigating vessels and passenger steamers traversing the Atlantic
Ocean ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. And assisting in the navigation, yes.
Senator Fletcher. Will you state to the committee whether it is
customary for such ships to exercise any particular care or caution
when in the midst of icebergs or approaching icebergs, or when
warned and notified that icebergs are in the vicinity ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It is customary to exercise every precaution that
is deemed necessary to a seaman's mind.
Senator Fletcher. What precautions are deemed necessary to a
seaman's mind under those conditions on a passenger steamer?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Tliosc that will prevent accidents and prevent
loss of fife.
Senator Fletcher. You would consider tlxat a precaution would
be reasonable and proper and might contribute to the saving of life —
such, for instance, as the lessening of speed ?
Mc LiGHTOLLER. When it is necessary.
Senator Fletcher. Under the conditions that obtained that night
on the Atlantic Ocean, a clear night, when you were notified a num-
ber of hours aliead that icebergs might be expected, would you con-
sicler it a reasonable precaution to keep at full speed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It depends altogether on conditions, and it
finally rests with the commander's juogment.
Senator Fletcher. If the vessel had been running at a lower rate
of speed, would not the chances of avoiding that iceberg have been
increased ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Whcii a vessel .is running at a low rate of speed,
she is slower on the helm, so the conditions would be totally diflFerent.
Senator Fletcher. That does not answer my question, quite.
Read the question, Mr. Reporter.
^i .^».«^^ >>
TITANIC DISA8TEB. 443
The stenographer read the question, as follows:
If the vessel had been running at a lower rate of speed, would not the chances of
avoiding that iceberg have been increased?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. That I can not say. I merely state that the
sliip would be slower of helm, which means that she would take longer
to swing on her helm in proportion to her reduced speed.
Senator Fletcher. She would have had more tune in which to
swing, would she not ?
Mr. LiQHTOLLER. She would have had more time in which to swing.
Senator Fletcher. With reference to the changing of the route,
in crossing the ocean with a passenger steamer like that, have you
ever known a ship to change ner route by reason of the presence of
icebergs ?
Mr. jLightoller. No, sir. We receive our orders; the routes are
laid down. As a matter of fact, these routes are laid down by some
of your naval men in the United States, and we adhere to them.
We have an ice route. When ice is very prevalent and. we know that
a lot of ice is coming down from the north and Ave have been notified
of it, we sometimes are instructed to take what we call the ice track,
or extreme southern route, coming west.
Senator Fletcher. What track is that ?
Senator Bourne. Who issues those instructions ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Th6 company.
Senator Bourne. To take the other route ?
Mr. Liohtoller. The company.
Senator Bourne. Do they come from the managing director, or
does the captain use his own discretion ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ; they come from the company.
Senator Bourne. What officer of the company f
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know.
Senator Fletcher. Suppose you are in midocean when you receive
this information ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I never have been, to my knowledge. You get
it before you leave port.
Senator Fletcher. You get these orders before you leave port ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. That is, of course, when you are advised,
previous to leaving port, of the location of the ice ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Exactly.
Senator Fletcher. Where the ice is located after you have left,
and when you are warned of the fact that you are approaching ice,
have you ever known of instances when the route would be changed
by the commander in order to avoid the ice ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; I have never known the route to be
changed by the commander. When we have the absolute position
of anything, that is reliable, when the latitude and longitude is given
by a ship immediately ahead of an iceberg or a derelict — of course,
a derelict is still more dangerous than an iceberg — some commanders
will alter their course a few miles just to avoid tliis derelict, particu-
larly if it is in the nighttime. You have the position of tnat one
dereUct and if you cross there at nighttime you might haul a little
to the southward or northward.
Senator Fletcher. In other words, in the observance of proper
precautions
444 UTAKIO DISASTER.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. That is it, exactly.
Senator Fletcher. In the observance of proper precautions a
commander would not be obliged to stick to a track laid out on his
chart, notwithstanding he might be advised of icebergs or derelicts
or some obstruction on the track? He ought to vary and alter his
route?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; I do not say what he ought to do, at all.
I have never been a commander, yet.
Senator Fletcher. You are speaking as an expert?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not at all.
Senator Fletcher. In connection with the navigation of pas-
senger vessels ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. ,Every man has a different idea with regard to
navigation. Each man has his own individual idea with regard to
the safety of the sliip, which he exercises to the utmost to keep the
ship from danger in its various forms.
oenator Fletcher. You understand you are required, and the
commander and all officers are required, to exercise precautions to
avoid dangers and accidents ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Fletcher. All necessary precautions you are required to
take?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Fletcher. That is the rule you feel compelled to abide
by, under all conditions ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether or not the passengers
were notified that the ship was sinking, and were aroused from their
cabins or berths ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Of that I have no absolute knowledge. I can
merely be guided by the circumstances which occurred. The
purser — as a matter of fact, both the pursers — and the pursers'
assistants, of whom I beUeve there were lour — two pursers and four
assistants, and two doctors, were there. Both pursers I was very-
friendly with, and knew them both intimately, ashore and afloat.
They were both thoroughly capable men.
I "draw the conclusion that everyone was notified, by the maimer
and under the circumstances under which I met them last. It was
obvious to me that everything with regard to their duty had been
done by the mere fact that shortly before the vessel sank I met a
purser, Mr. McElroy, Mr. Barker, Dr. OXaughlin and Dr. Simpson,
and the four assistants. They were just coming from the direction
of the bridge. They were evidently just keeping out of everybody's
way. They were keeping away from the crowd so as not to interfere
with the loading of the boats. McElroy, if I remember, was walking
alon^ with his hands in his pockets. The purser's assistant was
coming behind with the ship's bag, showing that all detail work had
been attended to. I think one of them had a roll of papers under
his arm, showing that they had been attending to their detail work.
That is why I draw the conclusion. They were perfectly quiet.
They came up to me and just shook hands and said, ^'Good-bye, old
man." We said good-bye to each other, and that is all there was
to it.
Senator Fletcher. Did any of them get in boats ?
I
I
I
I
I
'' TITANIC '' DIBASTEB. 445
Mr. L1GHTOLX.ER. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did any of them survive?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, not one.
Senator Fletcher. You say some man told you, just before the
sliip went down, that he passed toward the stem and did not seo
anyone ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, I did not say that he did not see anyone. I
said he said he did not see any women.
Senator Burton. Pardon me, but you were to give the name of a
person who went to and fro ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, yes That was S, Hemmings, lamp trim-
mer.
Senator Burton. Is he here?
Mr. LiGHTOLLteR. He is here.
Senator Fletcher. What was the name of the person who you
say went along the ship and saw no women ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Mr. Hemming; that is the man.
Senator Fletcher. Oh, was that the man?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Burton. Excuse me for interrupting.
Senator Fletcher. I was just asking that so as to get the name of
that individual. Now, Officer, how do you account for the fact that
there were no people ? Where were the other people who were not in
the boats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I have been unable to fathom. I have tried
to find out for my own edification, but I can not fix it up. Perhaps
this man Hemmings would be able to throw some light on it. That
is why I gave you his name, so that you might ask nim. He is the
man who walked to the after end of the boat deck. I did not. He
may be able to give you some more information. He may be able to
clear it up, but 1 can not.
Senator Fletcher. You can not yourself account for the people
that were not in the boats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I can not.
Senator Fletcher. I will get you to state, not only from your
actual knowledge of the immediate effect, but also from your expe-
rience as a navigator and seaman, what the effect of that collision
-was on the ship, oe^^inning with the first effect, the immediate effect;
how it listed tne ship, if it did; what effect it had then, and what, in
vour opinion, was the effect on the ship that resulted from that col-
lision.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The result was she sank.
Senator Fletcher. I understand that. But what was the imme-
diate effect ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The immediate effect was she began to go down
by the bows.
* Senator Fletcher. But what did the boat do first ? Did she
tremble, did she shake, did she keep on her course, or what was the
immediate effect ? Was she obstructed ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not know. I was in my berth. I do not
know what course she kept on. There was a slight shock.
Senator Fletcher. You were awake ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs.
Senator Fletcher. What was the immediate effect ?
f ( .-^-, . *. > f
446 OHTANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. A slight shock, a slight trembling, and a grinding
sound. She did not make any alteration in her course, so far as I am
aware.
Senator Fletcher. So far as you could see, the blow did not come
from beneath the surface, but came straight along the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not see anything
Senator Fletcher. But so far as you could feel ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. So far as I could feel, there was a slight shock
and a grinding sound. That was all there was to it. There was no
listing, no plunging, diving, or anything else.
Senator Fletcher. What was done then with reference to the
ship; was her speed lessened then?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was below: I do not know anything about that ?
Senator Fletcher. You could not tell that ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not tell you officially ; I know I came out
on deck and noticed that her speed was lessened ; yes.
Senator Fletcher. Was she not actually stopped entirely from
going, forward ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No ; she was not. That is why I said, in my pre-
vious testimony, that the ship was apparently goin^ slowly, and I saw
the first officer and the captam on the bridge, and I judged that there
was nothing further to do.
Senator Fletcher. You said a while ago that apparently certain of
these compartments were pierced ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Tell us what you mean by a compartment being
pierced. Was it simply, in your judgment, a hole driven in these
diflferent compartments, or were sheets of steel ripped oflF the bottom
of the ship ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I can only express it as I have expressed it before.
She was ripped open.
Senator Fletcher. To what extent was the ripping, as far as you
could judge ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nos. 1,2, and 3, and the forepeak.
Senator Fletcher. What width and what lengm ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I havc not the slightest idea, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Could anything have been done to prevent the
ship sinking? • ^ ^
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nothing further than was done.
Senator Fletcher. Was there anj^thing done to prevent it ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes; the water-tight doors were closed.
Senator Fletcher. That was the only thing that could have been
done at that time?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. All they could do was to take the way off the ship
and close the doors.
Senator Fletcher. The lifeboats and the belts were all sound and
in good condition ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Perfect condition.
Senator Fletcher. Were vou running the ship with the purpose
and the view of arriving in New York at any particular time i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I had nothing at all to do with that, sir. I do
not know anything about that.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear anybody discuss it ?
CI ««-..^,.^ 99
TITANIC DISASTEB. 447
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. No; we figured to get in Wednesday morning.
There was no object in getting there any earlier.
Senator Fletcher, i ou can not say whether it is customary,
according to your experience and observation, to lessen the speed of
a ship under those conditions, approaching icebergs ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Under circumstances existing as they were then;
at other times, when I have approached ice with conditions approxi-
mately the same as they were m this case, as near as I can tell, we
have gone at the ordinary rate of speed at which we had been going
during the voyage.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any panic aboard the ship ?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. Not the slightest.
Senator Fletcher. At any time ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At no time.
Senator Fletcher. The regulations prohibit the use of any lights
on board the ship except those prescribed by law ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Steaming lights, yes; only what are prescribed
by law.
^ Senator Fletcher. Do you know what lights they are ?
]VIr. LiGHTOLLER. Masthead light, side lights, and stern light.
Senator Fletcher. Are those lights of any assistance in enabling
the lookout to look out and see an object in front %
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No; they are not for that purpose at all.
Senator Fletcher. In your opinion, a searcnlight that night would
have revealed this iceberg ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Oh, no; I did not say so.
Senator Bourne. Have you an opinion on that, as to whether a
searchlight would have revealed the iceberg ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I think it would have assisted us, under those
peculiar conditions, very probably. The light would have been
reflected off the berg, probaoly. Yet it is difficult to say. I do not
know. A seachlight is a peculiar thing, and so is an iceberg. An
iceberg reflects the light that is thrown on it, and if you throw the
light on an iceberg it turns it to white, and if you throw it on the
sea it turns it to wnite.
Senator Bourne. But would you not get the contrast with the
shadow outside ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. But, you see, the shadow will be directly the
other way; the other side of the berg from the searchlight.
Senator Bourne. But would you not get the shadow where it
goes off at the end of the iceberg ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. IIow could you, if you were looking at it directly ?
The shadow would be on the other side.
Senator Bourne. But you would get the break at the end of the
iceberg ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Well, I do not know. I dare say it might have
been an advantage. Of course it would have been an advantage to
try it, anyhow.
Senator Bourne. Taking a sliip of the Titanic^s tonnage, going at
a speed of 21 knots, in what distance could you stop it if you reversed
the engine?
Mr. LiGirroLLER. Reversed the engine full speed astern ?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
< ( . ^ ^ f f
448 TITANIC DISA8TBB.
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I foFgot what the stopping time was. We tried
it in Belfast. I suppose about a minute and a half, maximum.
Senator Bourne. And within what distance; what part of a mile ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. A quarter of a mile; about a quarter of a mile.
Senator Fletcher. I did not quite understand that. You say
if she were going at the rate of 21 knots she could be stopped in a
quarter of a mile ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. If she were going at 21 knots and you put the
telegraph full speed astern, I think that the way would be off tne ship,
as we call it when the ship is not going through the water, in about a
minute and a half, and tnat she would cover in that time approxi-
mately a quarter of a mile.
Senator New^lands. When you struck that iceberg, was the ice-
berg in the exact position in wnich it was located on the chart ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Newlands. You say it would not have been customary
under those circumstances to slow up the steamer. What did you
rely upon; simply the sight to catch any object ahead?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Seeing the object; yes.
Senator Newlands. You spoke of not relying upon the lookout.
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I spoke about relying on the lookout in this man-
' ner. This is what I wisli thoroughly uncierstood, that the ofhcer does
not rely on the lookout to the extent of sitting down and having a
smoke, or anything like that. He keeps his own lookout.
Senator Newlands. But at the same time, he utilizes the lookout ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to let you ^o, and yet I want to ask another
auestion. Do you know of any evidence or report as to water on
le upper deck of the Titanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs ; before she went down the water was up to
the top of the bridge.
Senator Smith. Wlien did vou first note water on E deck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I (Ud not note it.
Senator Smith. Did you see any water tliere at all ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I did not look there.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. Boxhall's testimony ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Part of it.
Senator Smith. Did you hoar liim say that he saw lights ahead of
the Titanic that night i
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs. I know he did, anyway.
Senator Smith. And gave signals ^
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ycs; I saw the signals.
Senator Smith. Did you see the lights on the boat ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Ahead of the Titanic?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Two Doiuts on the port bow.
wSenator Smith. About now far distant, in your judgment?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Four or 5 miles away. 1 would say 3 to 4 miles,
roughly. I did not stop to look at them.
Senator Smith. How many lights ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I could not say; one, as far as I could see with
the naked eye.
Senator Smith. In your course ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Iilo Hot kuow liow the ship was heading then.
(t ,«,«.^^^ I J
TITANIC DIfiASTEB. 449
Senator Smith, Well, was it in your course ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. You are speaking of the time after we struck ?
Senator Smith. Is that when you saw this light ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes, sir; when we were getting the boats out.
Senator Smith. You did not see it before then?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I was not on deck.
Senator Smith. You did not see it up to the time you left the deck
at 10 o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, I did not.
Senator Smith. But you did see a light
Mr. LiGHTOLLER (interposing). Two points on the port bow, dur-
ing the time in which I was getting out the boats.
Senator Smith. Do you know what it was ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not.
Senator Smith. The captain wants me to ask you if you know what
^was the compass bearing of that light ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I do not.
Senator SMrrn. Did you ever know, in your experience as a sea-
man, or have you ever known, the steam wliistle to be used to detect
the presence of ice by means of an echo ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Certainly not.
Senator Smith. Nothing of that kind was attempted on the
TUanict
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Certainly not.
TESTIXOITT OF MB. BOBEBT HICHENS.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. You have given your full name ?
Mi. Hichens. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. What is your home address ?
Mr. Hichens. 45 James Street, St. Marys, Southampton.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Hichens. Thirty, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you a family?
Mr. Hichens. Wife and two children.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Hichens. Quartermaster.
Senator Smith. How long have you held such a position?
Mr. Hichens. For the last seven or eight years, sir.
Senator Smith. On what ship were you employed on April 14th
last? [After a pause.] I will change my question, and maybe you
can get it a little quicker. Were you filling such a position on the
Titanic at the time when she suffered this coUision ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you at your post of duty the night of the
collision ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes.
Senator Smith. What was your post of duty; where was it?
Mr. Hichens. At the time of the collision I was at the wheel, sir,
steering the ship.
Senator Smith. How long had you been at the wheel when the
collision occurred ?
Mr. Hichens. One hour and forty minutes, sir.
40475— PT 5—12 7
450 TITAKIO DI8A8TEB.
Senator Smith. How long a watch did 3-ou have ?
Mr. HicHENS. We would have four hours' watch ; two hours standby
and two hours at the wheel.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell now, in 3'our own way, what
occurred that night from the time you went on watch until the
collision occurred.
Mr. HiCHENS. I went on watch at 8 o'clock. The officers on the
watch were the second officer, Mr. Lightoller, senior in command ; the
fourth officer, Mr. Boxhall; and the sixth officer, Mr. Moody. My
first orders when I got on the bridge was to take the second officer's
coinpliments down to the ship's carpenter and inform him to look to
his fresh water; that it was about to freeze. I did so. On the return
to the bridge, I had been on the bridge about a couple of minutes
when the carpenter came back and reported the duty carried out.
Standing by waiting for another message — it is the duty of the quar-
termaster to strike the bell every half hour — as the stand-by quarter-
master, sir, I heard the second officer repeat to Mr. Moody, the sixth
officer, to speak through the telephone, warning the lookout men in
the crow's nest to keep a sharp lookout for small ice until daylight
and pass the word along to the other lookout men. The next order
I received from the second officer was to go and find the deck engineer
and bring him up with a key to open the heaters up in the corridor of
the officers' quarters, also the wheelliouse and the chart room, on
account of the intense cold. At a quarter to 10 I called the first
officer, Mr. Murdock, to let him know it was one bell, which is part
of our duty ; also took the thermometer and barometer, the temper-
ature of the water, and the log. At 10 o'clock I went to the wheel,
sir. Mr. Murdock come up to relieve Mr. Lightoller. I had the
course given me from the other quartermaster, north 71® west, which
I repeated to him, and he went and reported it to the first officer or
the second officer in charge, which he repeated back — the course, sir.
All went along very well until 20 minutes to 12, when three gongs
came from the lookout, and immediately afterwards a report on the
telephone, '^Iceberg right ahead." The chief officer rushed from the
wing to the bridge, or I imagine so, sir. Certainly I am inclosed in
the wheelhouse, and I can not see, only my compass. He rushed to
the engines. I heard the telegraph bell ring; also give the order
'*Hard astarboard,'' with the sixth officer standing by me to see the
duty carried out and the quartermaster standing by my left side.
Repeated the order, '*Hard astarboard. The helm is hard over,
sir."
Senator Smith. Who gave the firet order?
Mr. HiCHENS. Mr. Murdock, the first officer, sir; the officer in
charge. The sixth officer repeated the order, **The helm is hard
astarboard, sir." But, during the time, she was crushing the ice, or
we could hear the grinding noise along the ship's bottom. I heard
the telegraph ring, sir. The skipper came ruslnng out of his room —
Capt. Smith — and asked, *^What is that?" Mr. Murdock said, *^\n
iceberg." He said, "Close the emergency doors."
Senator Smith. Who said that, the captain?
Mr. HiOHENS. Capt. Smith, sir, to Mr. Murdock; "Close the emer-
fency doors." Mr. Murdock replied, ''The doors are already closed."
'he captain sent then for the carpenter to sound the ship. He also
came back to the wheelhouse and looked at the commutator in front
it ^ ff
TITANIC WPASTEB. 451
of the compass, which is a little instrument like a dock to tell you
how the ship is listing. The ship had a list of 5° to the starhoard.
Senator Smith. How long after the impact, or collision ?
Mr. HiGHBNS. I could hardly tell you, sir. Judging roughly, about
5 minutes; about 5 to 10 minutes. I stayed to the wheel, then, sir,
untU 23 minutes past 12. I do not know whether they put the clock
back or not. The clock was to go back that night 47 mmutes, 23
minutes in one watch and 24 in the other.
Senator Smith. Had the clock been set back up to the time you
left the wheel ?
Mr. HiCHENs. I do not know, sir. I did not notice it.
Senator Smith. When do you say you left the wheel, at 20 minutes
after 12 ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I left the wheel at 23 ininutes past 12, sir. I was
reheved by Quartermaster Perkis. He relieved me at 23 minutes
past 12. I think the first officer, or one of the officers said, "That
will do with the wheel; get the boats out." I went out to get the
boats out on the port side. I think I got in No. 6 boat, sir; put in
charge of her bv the second officer, Mr. LightoUer. We lowered
away from the ship, sir, and were told to '^PuU toward that light,"
which we started to do, to pull for that h^t. I had 38 women in
the boat, sir, 1 seaman and myself, with 2 male passengers, 1 Italian
boy and a Canadian major who testified here yesterday.
Senator Smith. Were you in charge of the boat ?
Mr. HiCHENs. I was; yes, sir. Everybody seemed in a very bad
condition in the boat, sir. Everybody was quite upset, and I told
them somebody would have to puU ; there was no use stopping there
alongside of the ship, and the ship gradually going by the head. We
were in a dangerous place, so I told them to man the oars, ladies and
all, '*A11 of you do your best.'' We got away about a mile, I suppose,
from the ship, going after this light, which we expected to be a cod-
banker," a schooner that comes out on the Banks.
Senator Smith. A fisherman's boat ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir; we expected her to be that, sir; but we
did not get any nearer the light. There were several other boats
around us at this time and one boat that had no light came close up
to us. He had four to six men in his boat and I borrowed one fire-
man from him to put in my boat, to enable me to pull. We did not
seem to get any nearer the light, so we conversed together, and we
tied our boats side by side. We stopped there until we saw the
Carpaihia heave in sight about daybreak. The wind had sprung
up a bit then, and it got verv choppy. I relieved one of the young
ladies with the oar, and told her to take the tJler. She immediately
let the boat come athwart, and the ladies in the boat got very nervous.
So I took the tiller back again and told them to manage the best way
they could.
^nator Sbhth. Do you know who that woman was ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I do not, sir. They were all entire strangers to me,
sir. But the lady I refer to, Mrs. Mayer, she was rather vexed with
me in the boat and I spoke rather straight to her, and she accused
me of wrapping myseli up in the blankets in the boat, using bad
language, and drinldng all the whisky, which I deny, sir. I was
standing to attention, exposed, steering the boat all night, which is
a very cold billet. I would rather be pulling the boat than be steer-
452 TITANIC DISASTER.
ing. But I seen no one there to steer, so I thought, being in charge
of the boat, it was the best way to steer myself, especially when I seen
the ladies get very nervous with the nasty tumble on. We got down
to the CarpaUhia and I seen every lady ana everybody out of the boat,
and I seen them carefully hoisted on board the CarpaiMa, and I was
the last man to leave the boat. That is all I can tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to ask you a few questions. I would like
to ask you whether you had any trouble with the major, between the
Titanic and the Carpathiaf
Mr. HiCHENs. I had no trouble with him at aU, sir, only once.
He was not in the boat more than 10 minutes before he wanted to
come and take charge of the boat.
Senator Smith. What did vou say to him?
Mr. HiCHENS. I told him, I am put here in charge of the boat."
I said, '^You go and do what you are told to do."
Senator Smith. Did he say anything more to you ?
Mr. HiCHENS. He did not answer me, sir, but sat down; went
forward on the starboard bow, alongside of Seaman Fleet, who was
working very hard. He done most of the work himself; Fleet was
doing most of the work.
Senator Smith. That was the man who was in the crow's nest at
the time the boat struck ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. He was in your Ufeboat, too 1
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you lie on your oars off the Titanic at any
time before the Titanic went down ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long?
Mr. HiCHENS. Well, we had no time, sir; I could hardly tell you.
Senator Smith. About how long?
Mr. HiCHENS. That I could hardly tell you, sir, because our minds
was thinking of other things, sir. I do know we did it, sir.
Senator Smith . How far were you from the Titanic at the time
she went down ?
Mr. HiCHENS. When we sighted the Carpaihia we were about a
mile from her.
Senator Smith. No; when you were lying on your oars?
Mr. HiCHENS. About 1 mile, sir.
Senator Smith. About a mile from the Titanic?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Could you see the Titanic?
Mr. HiCHENS. I could not see her; not after the lights went out;
no, sir.
Senator Smith. You could see the lights ?
Mr. HiCHENS. We could see the lights go out; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you knew the location of the boat ?
Mr. HiCHENS. We heard the cries for an interval of about two or
three minutes.
Senator Smith. As the ship disappeared ?
Mr. HiCHENS. As the ship disappeared ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The major, who was in that boat with you, said
yesterday that you were lying on your oars, drifting, and before the
Titanic went down you heard cries of distress, and for help. Is that
true?
€t _,.„.*.^^ >f
TITANIO DISASTER. 468
Mr. HiOHENs. I did not hear any cries as regarding distress. We
heard a lot of crying and screaming. At one time we were made fast
to another boat. We were not lymg on our oars at all.
Senator Smith. You made fast to another boat. What boat ?
Mr. HiCHENS. The boat the master-at-arms was in, sir. I think
it was No. 8 boat. He left about the saipe time as we did.
Senator Smith. You had 38 women in your boat ?
Mr. HiGHENS. Yes, sir; I counted them, sir.
Senator Smith. And how many men ?
Mr. HiOHENS. I had Fleet, myself
Senator Smith. Fleet, the major, and yourself ?
Mr. HiCHENS. And an Italian boy, sir.
Senator Smith. That is four men ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Four, sir. But the ItaUan boy had a broken arm, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he the one who was hid away ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I do not know how he managed to get on the boat
at all, sir; I do not know.
Senator Smith. Was he dressed in woman's clothing ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No ; I do not think so, sir.
Senator Smith. During the time that you were lying oflF on your
oars, and before the Titanic sank, did the women in your boat urge
you to eo toward the Titanic?
Mr. HiGHENS. Not that I remember, sir. I am not aware of it.
Senator Smith. Did they urge you not to go toward the Titanicf
]Mr. HiGHENS. Not that I am aware of, sir.
Senator Smith. So far as you can recollect, did the women say
nothing either one way or the other about it ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir; not that I remember. In fact, under the
conditions, with one seaman in the boat and myself to pull a big boat
like that, and being a mile away from the Titanic — ^I did not know
what course to take, we had no compass in the boat — ^it seemed impos-
sible, sir.
Senator Smith. The major said yesterday when you were asked to
return to the source from which these distress cries came
Mr. HiCHENS. I read it in the paper, but that is continually false,
sir.
Senator Smith. That you said, '^ We are to look out for ourselves
now, and pay no attention to those stiffs.'^
Mr. HiCHENS. I never made use of that word, never since I have
been bom, because I use other words in preference to that.
Senator Smith. Did you say anything about it ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Not that I am aware of, sir.
Senator Smith. And you wish the committee to understand that
Jou did not refuse to go to the relief of people in the water, either
efore or after the Titanic disappeared ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I could not. sir. I was too far away, and I had no
compass to go back, to enable me to find where the cries came from.
The cries I heard lasted about two minutes, and some of them were
saying, *'It is one boat aiding the other." There was another boat
aside of me, the boat the master-at-arms was in, full right up.
Senator Smith. How long after you were lying on your oars was it
that the Titanic went down ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I could hardly tell you, sir.
454 TITAKIO DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you instruct the men in your boat to row away
from the Titanic after it went down ?
Mr. HiCHENs. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. Why did you not row toward the scene of the
Titanic?
Mr. HiCHBNs. The suction of the ship would draw the boat, with
all her occupants, under water, I thougnt, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that the sole reason you did not go toward the
Titanic?
Mr. HiCHENs. I did not know which way to go back to the Titanic.
I was looking at all the other boats; I was among all the other boats.
Senator Smith. What other boats; the lifeboats ?
Mr. HiCHENs. We were all together; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Why were you looking at the lifeboats ?
Mr. HiCHENs. We were looking at each other's lights.
Senator Smith. Did you have a light ?
Mr. HiCHENs. I did; yes, sir. We all had lights and were showing
them to one another.
Senator Smith. The lifeboats all had lights ?
Mr. HiCHENs. Most all of us. We kept all showing our lights now
and then to let them know where we were, too.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to tell me you would pass your time
in showing one another your own lights, but did not go toward the
Titanic?
Mr. HiCHENs. Yes; but before the Titanic sank we were aU pulling
for a light which we thought was to be a cod banker. We all made
for this light.
Senator Smith. You made up your mind it was not the boat you
thought it was ? You thought it was a fishing boat ?
Mr. Hichens. We all thought so, and all pulled for that light.
Senator Smith. You then pulled for that light, and finally discov-
ered you were making no progress toward it ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you stopped ?
Afr. Hichens. We stopped then; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And at that time you were a mile away from the
Titanic ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir; a mile or more, sir.
Senator Smith. And was the Titanic still afloat ?
Mr. Hichens. The Titanic was still afloat, sir, and her fights all
showing.
Senator Smith. How long after that did you see her go down ?
Mr. Hichens. I could hardly tell you. rrobably 10 minutes after
that her lights disappeared, but I did not see her go down.
Senator Smith, lou, yourself, did not see her aisappear?
Mr. Hichens. No, sir.*^
Senator Smith. Was your back toward her ?
Mr. Hichens. We could not see her at all. When I seen the lights
disappear, that was all I could see, because it was very dark.
Senator Smith. You sat at the tiller?
Mr. Hichens. I was standing at the tiller.
Senator Smith. With your back to the ship ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you did not see her go down ?
a . ^ }f
TITANIC DISASTER. 455
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After the lights disappeared and went out, did you
then hear cries of distress ?
Mr. HiCHENS. We did hear cries of distress, or I imagined so, sir,
for two or three. minutes. Some of the men in the boat said it was
the cries of one boat hailing the other. I suppose the reason they
said this was not to alarm the women — the ladies in the boat.
Senator Smith. Did the Italian say that ?
\h". HiCHENS. The Italian could not speak. I am not talking of our
own men, but the boat close, near by.
Senator Smith. Some other boat ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir; we were having conversation with thorn
and the master-at-arms.
Senator Smith. You desire the committee to understand that you
kept a safe distance from the Titanic after you got into the lifeboat;
you made fast to the other lifeboat; you went away from the Titanic
about a mile; you lav there on your oars; jou saw the Titanic go
down, or saw the lignts go out, and you did not go in that direc-
tion at all ?
Mr. HiCHENS. We did not know what direction to go^ sir.
Senator Smith. Did you, after the lights went out, go m the direc-
tion in which the lights were ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Wnen the lights were gone out, we were still head-
ing toward this cod banker, aU of us.
Senator Smith. That fishing boat was away from the Titanic* a
position ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir, a good ways, sir.
Senator Smith. You were neading for that?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. ^ATien vou left the Titanic in the lifeboat, did any-
one tell you to take that load off and come back to the Titanic f ;^ jn
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who told you that ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I think it was the first officer or the second officer.
I am not sure which officer it was. ^*^j
Senator Smfth. Mr. Murdock or Mr. Lightoller? -^
Mr. HiCHENS. One of them; I am not sure which.
Senator Smith. AVhat did you say ?
Mr. HiCHENS. All right, we was willing to puU away for this light;
but when we got down we told him we had to have one more man in
the boat.
Senator Smith. You wanted another man ?
Mr. HiCHENS. We wanted two or three more men if we could get
them.
Senator Smith. But you did not get them ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir; only this major; he came down. He got
in then, and that is all.
Senator Smith. He swung himself out and got in, didn't he?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did that call come back before the major got
into the boat, or was it when you were away from the ship and rowing
away?
Mr. HiCHENS. WTien I got down to the bottom, when we were low-
ered down in the water, wo only had one man there, one seaman
besides myself.
1 i
456 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Burton. Then you say it was the first or second officer
called you to come back ?
Mr. HiCHENs. He told us to go away and make for the light. We
had them orders before we went down below. We had no orders
when we got to the water at all; we couldn't hear then.
Senator Smith. The orders you got were to take that boat to the
water ?
Mr. HiCHENs. To that light.
Senator Smith. To the hght and return ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir; that is right.
Senator Smith. And that order was given to you by the first or
second officer?
Mr. HicHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was your lifeboat lowered from the port or from
the starboard side ?
Mr. HicHENS. The port, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not carry out that order?
Mr. HiCHENs. Yes; I did sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. HiCHENs. I pulled for that light — this imaginary light. We
were pulling for it all the time.
Senator Smith. You pulled for this imaginary light ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And never returned to the side of the Titanic?
Mr. Hichens. We could not return, sir.
Senator Smith. I think I understand you.
I want you to tell the committee, if you can, why you put the ship
to starboard, which I believe you said you did, just before the coUi-
sion with the iceberg ?
Mr. Hichens. I do not quite understand you, sir.
Senator Smith. You said that when you were first apprised of the
iceberg, you did what ?
Mr. Hichens. Put my helm to starboard, sir. That is the orders
I received from the sixth officer.
Senator SMrrn. What was the effect of that ?
Mr. Hichens. The ship minding the helm as I put her to starboard.
Senator Smith. But suppose you had gone bows on against that
object ?
Mr. Hichens. I don't know nothing about that. I am in the
wheelhouse, and, of course, I couldn't see nothing.
Senator Smith. You could not see where you were ^oing ?
Mr. Hichens. No, sir; I might as well Be locked in a cell. Tlie
only thing I could see was my compass.
Senator Smith. The officer gave you the necessaiy order ?
Mr. Hichens. Gave me the order, **Hard a'starboard.''
Senator Smith. Hard a'starboard ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You carried it out immediately ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir; immediately, with the sixth officer behind
my back, with the junior officer behind my back, to see whether I
carried it out — one of the junior of Beers.
Senator Smith. Is that the only order you received before the
collision, or impact?
Mr. Hichens. That is all, sir. Then the first officer told the other
quartermaster standing by to take the time, and told one of the
t* »,„■■> .»w^ ff
TITAKIO DIBA8TBB. 467
junior officers to make a note of that in the log book. ' That was at
20 minutes of 12, sir.
Senator Smith. You said it was pretty cold that night ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Very intense cold, sir.
Senator Smtth. What did that indicate to you — ^that you were in
the vicinity of the Great Banks of Newfoundland ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I do not know, sir. In the morning, when it turned
daybreak, we could see icebergs everywhere; also a field of ice about
20 to 30 miles long, which it took the Oarpdthia 2 miles to get clear
from when it picked the boats up. The icebergs was up on^ every
point of the compass, almost.
Senator Smfth. It was very cold ?
Mr. EboHENS. Very cold, su:.
Senator Smtth. Freezing, I beheve you said.
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you yourself take the temperature of the air or
water that night t
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where and when ?
Mr. HiCHENS. About 10 minutes before I went to the wheel, sir.
Senator Smith. How did you take the temperature of the air?
Mr. HiCHENS. We have a bucket, sir, attached to a piece of line
about 20 fathoms long, which we put over the lee side of tne ship, and
draw just sufficient water to put the instrument in to cover the mer-
cuiy to make it rise to its temperature, sir.
^nator Smith. Is that a dipper or pail ?
Mr. HiCHENS. A small bucket, leaded at the bottom.
Senator Smith. What is attached to it, a rope or chain ?
Mr. HiCHENS. A piece of Une about as thick as your black lead
pencil.
Senator Smith. Did you take that line and lower this bucket
yourself ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir; when it was my duty to do so I did it.
Senator Smtth. You did it that night just before going to the
wheel ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The bucket reached the water, did it 1
^fr. HiCHENS. Certainly, sir.
Senator Smith. You took the temperature ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes.
Senator Smith. What was it ?
ilr. HiCHENS. I could not tell at the present time, sir. We have
to enter it up in the log book.
Senator Smith. Did you enter it ?
^L^. HiCHENS. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. But you can not remember what it wa^ 'i
Mr. HiCHENS. I can not remember; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Whether it was zero i
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir; I know it was not zero.
Senator Smtth. You can not give us any idea about it ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You took the temperature of the air ?
Mr. IbcHENs. We had to do this duty every two hours. The
quartermaster was standing by. After that we don^t take no notice
it -»»..*— ^ >>
458 TIXAWIO DISA8TBR.
of it. We write it down in the log book for the junior officer, and it
is copied off in the quartermaster's log book.
Senator Smith. And it constitutes part of the log book ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir; just as we take the barometer and the
thermometer, and then the air, or the temperature of the water, and
the like.
Senator Smith. And you took the temperature of both the water
and air, but you do not remember how cola the water was, or what the
temperature of the water was ?
MI. HicHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you remember what the temperature of the
air was ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir — oh, yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you take the temperature of the water
and air — ^when had you done so before that time ?
Mr. Hichens. The last watch on deck, when it was not my wheel.
If I had the station on the bridge
Senator Smith. Wlien was it ? What time was it ?
Mr. HiOHENS. In the morning; the same watch in the morning;
the 8 to 10 watch, Sunday mormng.
Senator Smith. What did you raid the temperature of the water
and air at that time ? Do you recall that ?
Mr. Hichens. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recaU whether you found it colder at night
than you did in the morning?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir; I know the thermometer was down at 31 at
8 o^clock on Sunday evening — 31^. That is the only thing I do
remember.
Senator Smith. And both the water and the air were colder when
you made the last test
Mr. Hichens (interrupting). Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn (continuing) . Than when you made the previous
test ?
Mr. Hichens. Certainly so, sir.
Senator Smith. What did that indicate to you ?
Mr. Hichens. It had nothing to do with me. It does not concern
me, whatever.
Senator Smiih. Wliat did you think ? Did you think you were in
the vicinity of ice when you found that water so cold %
Mr. Hichens. No, sir; I didn't tliink nothing about it.
Senator Smith. Had you heard you were in the vicinity of ice ?
Mr. IIicuENS. I heard by the second officer when he repeated it.
He sent me witli liis ('om])limonts to the ship's carpenter to look out
for the slii])'s water, that it was freezing, at 8 o'clock. Then I knew.
I didn't know before, but I heard the second officer distinctly tell
Mr. Moody, the sixth officer, to re]>eat through the telephone, and
keep a shaq) lookout for small ice until daylight, and to pass the word
along for the other lookout men.
Senator Smith. You heard no officer say anything about icebergs,
or an ice field, or growlei's, or whatever they call these things, except
what you have described, when he said it was freezing?
Mr. Hichens. Yes.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been over that course before ?
Mr. Hichens. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been among icebergs before ?
(( s.^ .,_-_ 99
TITAHIC DISABTSB. 45&
Mr. HiCHENB. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Up about Norway and Sweden, and Petersburg, and
up the Danube.
Senator Smith. So they were not unfamiliar sights to you ?
Mr. HiCHEKB. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any way of your own by which you *
knew whether you were in the vicinity of icebergs ?
Mr. HiCHENS. It b^an to get very, very cold; exceedingly cold;
so cold we could barmy suffer tlie cold. I thought there was ice
about, somewhere.
Senator Smith. That indicated to you tlmt you were in the vicinity
of ice ?
Mr. HiCHENS. It did not concern me. It had notliing to do with
me at all. The officers had to do with it. I am only a junior officer.
Senator Smith. I did not ask you that. I just asked you what you
thou^t, and not what you did. You had had experience among
these icebei^, and when you found it cold and getting colder aU
the time, in the north Atlantic, you reached the conclusion that you
were coming to ice, did you ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I thought so, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you say anything about it to anyone ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the bucket with which you dipped this water
to make the tests the bucket that was supposed to be with the Titanic^
or was it something you improvised, that you found yourself, with
which to do the work ?
Mr. HiCHENS. It was a small paint tin, sir.
Senator Smith Was it new or was it old ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I was an old one, sir.
Senator Smith. An old one ?
Mr. HiCHENS. One the quartermaster got for the occasion, because
we had nothing else, sir.
Senator Smith. How was it fastened to the rope ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Bent on, like any other ordinary thing; bent on the
handle just hke a bent pin.
Senator SMrrH. How much water would that bucket hold ?
Mr. HiCHENS. It would hold about a quart, sir; if it was full up.
Senator Smith. How much would the ordinary bucket hold that
you would find on a ship of that character t
Mr. HiCHENS. They aon't get no buckets at aU. That is not the
{)roper thing. The proper thmg they use is a long piece of leather,
eaaed, the shape of that paper that is folded up on the table there
[indicating].
Senator Smith. But that you did not have ?
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any reports made to the captain or
officers as to water entering the ship ?
sir. HiCHENS. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Are vou the man who was taken off the Laplandt
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And transferred back to New York ?
Mr. Hiohens. Yes, sir; by the pilot boat.
Senator Smith. And you were taken from what boat, this morning,
in New York ?
460 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BLiOHEN. The Celtic, I have been stajdng with the Celtic f
waiting for inquiry, since last Saturday.
Senator Smith. When would the Celtic have sailed ?
Mr. HiCHENS. She was supposed to have sailed to-morrow, sir. I
have been there the last four days, awaiting the inquiir, sir.
Senator Boubne. You say you were taken oflF the UeUict
' Mr. HiGHENS. I was not taken off; I walked off. There was a man
there
Senator Smith. You were taken off the Laplandf
Mr. HiGHENS. Off the Lapland. I had no orders as to the inquiry
when I went down to the iMpland. I was like all the remainder, sir.
I am eager to go home and see my wife and children after a disaster
of this description; but when I had orders I was wanted, I was taken
ashore, and i came ashore with the pilot boat. I had a letter direct-
ing me to the Celtic, to wait there until I had orders to go, which I have
done, sir.
Senator Smith. You are going back home on the Ceitic as soon as
the committee gets through with you ?
Mr. HiGHENS. I should very much like to, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you going to ship as a sailor and work your
own passage back, or would the company pay it ?
Mr. HiGHENS. I can not very well do that yet. The company will
have to do that, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recall the testimony you gave as to the
ship's position or course ?
Mr. HiGHENS. The course was north 71® west, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that by the steering compass ?
Mr. HiGHENS. That is by the compass the quartermaster was
steering by in the wheelhouse, sir.
Senator Smith. By the true course ?
Mr. HiGHENS. The course in the standard compass and steering
compass vary two or three degrees, I think, sir; but the course we get
and the course the officers get is different. We repeat our course to
the officers, at sea, every quarter hour, and every so often that we are
always on our course. The captain comes around three or four times,
every five minutes, say.
Senator Smith. You left the wheelhouse that Sunday night at
Mr. HiCHENS (interposing). Twenty-three minutes past 12.
Senator Smith. Were you reUeved at the wheelhouse ?
Mr. HiCHENS. I was reUeved at the wheel by Quartermaster Per-
kiss. He took the wheel from me.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, all the quartermasters survived, sir, having
charge of boats.
Senator Smith. Your watch had not expired ?
Mr. HiCHENS. My watch had expired ; j^es.
Senator Smith. When he reUeved you ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir. It was my watch to go below then.
Senator Bourne. Did you have daily drills with the Ufeboats ?
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Fire drills and lifeboat drills every day; is that
customary ?
Mr. Hichens. I did not see them. The only thing I saw was the
emergency boat. There is one emergency boat on each side of the
a -»^...*«^ 9f
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 461
bridge, just abaft the bridge, which is kept, in case of accident, always
swung out.
Senator Bourne. There was a daily drill for the emergency boat ?
Mr. EbcHENS. Yes, at 6 o'clock in the evening, usually.
Senator Smith. You know, do you not, that the second officer and
the other officers say that there were no daily drills; that the only
drill took place at Southampton, when two Ufeboats were lowered?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes; as regards drilling, that is true, sir; but what I
am talking about is the emergency boat. They mustered the men
every night at 6 o'clock, in case of emergency, in case they should want
the emergency boat on account of a man falling overboard or any-
thing else.
Senator Smith. Do they muster these men every night at 6 o'clock ?
Mr. HiCHENs. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Where?
Mr. HiCHENs. On the bridge; they muster them there with an
officer.
Senator Smith. And what do they do — lower the boat ?
Mr. HiCHENs. No; I have never seen them do that. I have been
in the wheelhouse at the time
Senator Smith. You did not see them ?
Mr. HiGHEKs. No; but I have heard the report, and I have seen
the officer as I was going to the wheelhouse; and one evening I might
be on the dogwatch, from 6 to 8 o'clock
Senator Smith. But you do not know what they did — ^whether they
lowered the boat to the water ?
Mr. HiOHENS. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. And that is the drill you referred to ?
Mr. HiOHENs. No; I am not referring to any drill; I am only re-
ferring to the mustering of the men at 6 o'clock.
Senator Smith. How many men are mustered ?
Mr. HiCHENs. About 8, I think; 6 seamen and the quartermaster
and an officer.
Senator Smith. Every night at 6 o'clock ?
Mr. HiCHENs. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But they go to those two boats, one on the port
and one on the starboard side ?
Mr. HiCHENs. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And what they do when they get there you do not
know of your own knowledge ?
Mr. HiCHENs. No, sir; the boat is alwajys kept in readiness to be
gotten out at a moment's notice in case of accident.
Senator Smith. Do you say you have made arrangements to go
back on the Cedricf
Mr. HiCHENS. No, sir; I have not made any arrangements at all.
I am awaiting orders, like all the other men.
Senator Bourne. You would like to go ?
Mr. Hichens. If I possibly could; yes, sir.
Senator Smifh. It seems to be the judgment of my associates that
you should be permitted to go. Is there anything further you would
like to say ?
Mr. Hichens. I would like to make a little statement as regarding
Mrs. Mayer's statement in the newspapers about my drinkmg the
whisky, sir, and about the blankets. I was very cold, sir, and I was
462 TITANIC IHSASTER.
standing up in tJie boat. I had no hat on. A lady had a flask of
whisky or brandy, or something of that description given her by some
gentleman on the ship before sne left, and she pulled it out and gave
me about a tablespoonful and I drank it. Another lady, who was
lying in the bottom of the boat, in a rather weak condition, gave me a
half wet and half dry blanket to try to keep myself a little warm, as
I was half frozen. I think it was very unkind of her, sir, to make any
statement criticizing me. When we got to the ship I handled every-
one as carefully as I could, and I was the last one to leave the boat,
and I do not tmnk I deserve anything like that to be put in the papers.
That is what upset me and got on my nerves.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Witness, you have made a special request
to be permitted to go. I would like to know from you, if you do go
on the boat to-morrow back to England, whether you will return here
if the committee desires to have you ?
Mr. HiGHENS. I will, sir; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And we may communicate with the White Star
Line officers and you will hold yourself in readiness to return ?
Mr. HiCHENS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is all; and at their suggestion — they seem to
be united about it — you can be excused.
Senator Bourne. That is, you can go back to England.
Mr. Kbrlin. Do you include, Mr. Chairman, the other seamen
who are similarly situated, and who have been examined ? They are
most anxious to get home.
Senator Smith. Who are they ?
Mr. Kerlin. Thev are Mr. Fleet; the man who was in the other
boat, and a steward.
Senator Smith. I did not examine the steward. I only asked him a
question or two in New York. Is that Mr. Crawford?
Mr. Kerlin. Could any of the officers be allowed to go ?
Senator Smith. No, not so far as I am concerned. I would not
consent to have them go now; and I do not want to release Mr. Fleet
now. I have not finished with Mr. Crawford.
The hearing will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock to-morrow
morning.
Thereupon, at 6 o'clock and 20 minutes p. m., the subcommittee
adjournea until to-morrow, Thursday, April 25, 1912, at 10 o'clock
a. m.
ADDITIONAL STATEMEITT OF MR. ROBEBT HIGEEHS.
After leaving the witness stand, at his request, and while still under
oath, Mr. Robert Hichens, wheelman on board the Titanic^ who
appeared before the committee Wednesday, April 24, made the
following statement to Senator Smith:
Mr. Hichens. At 9.45 o'clock p. m., Sunday, the ship was traveling
at that rate and going full speed when the log was taken at 10 o'clock.
Senator Smith. You mean by full speed, 22^ miles per hour.
Mr. Hichens. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether she was running as fast as
she could run ?
Mr. Hichens. I do not know, sir.
X
" TIT.A.IsriC " DIS-A-STEI^
\s HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OP THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 6
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINllNG OFFICE
1912
. SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COBIMERCE.
United States Senate.
WILLIAK ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman. .
eEORQE C. PERKINS, CalifomU. F. M. SIMMONS, North CaioUna.
JONATHAN Bt)URNE, Ju., Oregon. FRANCIS O. NEWLANDS, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTRT, Clerk,
U
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Page.
Harold Thomas Cottam *- 494
Guglielmo Marconi 463, 516
III
"TITANIC"' DISASTER
THTXBSDAT, APRIL 25, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate,
Washington^ D, C.
The subcommittee met at 10.15 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Burton, Perkins, and
Fletcher.
Senator Smith. I would like to know if Mr. Boxhall, the fourth
officer of the Titanic^ is present?
Mr. Cornelius. He is not here, sir. He is in bed.
Senator Smith. I want to know, officially, that he is. Can you
give any announcement as to Mr. Boxhall, Mr. Burlingham?
Mr. Burlingham. Mr. Lightoller says that he is still sick in bed,
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Smith. And unable to be present this morning?
Mr. Burlingham. He can not be here to-day. We nope he will
be able to come to-morrow or the next day, at the latest.
Senator Smith. Officer Licrhtoller, you know of the illness of Mr.
Boxhall?
Mr. Lightoller. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Your fellow officer?
Mr. Lightoller. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You have seen him this morning?
Mr. Lightoller. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you say he is unable to respond to the call
of the committee this morning?
Mr. Lightoller. As far as I know from the doctor; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is all.
I should like to have Mr. Marconi take the stand.
TESTIMONY OF MB. OTTGIIELMO MAECOHI— Continued.
Senator Smith. You were sworn in New York last week, Mr,
Marconi ?
Mr. Marcx)ni. I was not sworn. Senator.
Senator Smith. I shall swear you this morning, with your consent.
Mr. Marconi. Certainly, Senator.
Mr. Marconi was duly sworn by the chairman.
Senator SMrrn. In order that we may have in the record your
official status, will you kindly state who you are, where you live, and
your business?
463
t< .^.^.^^^^ ff
464 . TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. Mabooni. Guglielmo Marconi; permanent residence, London,
England; diief engineer and chairman of Marconi's Wireless Tele-
graph Co. (Ltd.), of London. England.
Senator Smith. As such officer of the English company what have
you to do with the equipment -of wireless operators on ocean vessels
or shore stations, and wnat have you to do with the selection of op-
erators in that work?
Mr. Marooni. I am consulted with regard to all technical details
concerning the apparatus installed on ships generally, though I am
not consuUed with re^rd to the equipment of each particular ship.
Concerning the business arrangements made with shipowners, 1 am
usually not m thorough touch with what is going on, for the reason
that I am usually occupied with technical work. I travel about the
world a great deal in order to carry on experiments and to inspect
plants in various coimtries. For the business details and for the
general management of the companv there is a managing director or
general manager, who attends to all the work of engaging operators
and of negotiating with shipowners and others for the use of wireless
telegraphy.
Senator Smith. Who is that man ?
Mr. Marooni. Mr. Godfrey C. Isaacs.
Senator Smith. Where does he reside f
Mr. Marooni. He resides in London. He left New York just be-
fore the accident.
Senator Smith. Just before the Titamc accident?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; just before the Titamc accident.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, what is your official relationship to
the British Government, if any ?
Mr. Marconi. I have no official relationship with the British Gov-
ernment, except that I am called upon by them to advise them in
matters of wireless telegraphy, generally, and also I have undertaken
to be responsible for the design of the long-distance stations which
they are erecting in various parts of the British Empire, in which
my company will be interested for a period of at least 18 years.
Senator Smith. Under special contract with the British Govern-
ment ?
Mr. Marconi. Under special contract with the British Govern-
ment.
Senator Smith. Under what department of the British Govern-
ment is the work of wireless telegraphy undertaken ?
Mr. Marconi. It is under the control of the British post office, the
same department that controls the telegraph land lines of the Uiiited
Kingdom.
Senator Smith. And are you frequently brought in contact with
the head of the post office department of England ?
Mr. Marconi. Very frequently.
Senator Smith. Is he the officer of the British Government who
made this contract to which you refer?
Mr. Marconi. He is the officer responsible for it, who signs it;
but the contract, I should explain, is still subject to the approval of
Parliament.
Senator Smith. Is this an exclusive contract?
Mr. Marconi. I do not follow what you mean.
Senator Smith. Is this an exclusive contract?
ii -^-., ^^^^ f>
TITANIC DISASTER. 465
Mr. Marconi. You mean a contract only-
Senator Smith (interposing). I mean a contract that can only be
made with you.
Mr. Mapconi. For this particular purpose it is an exclusive con-
tract.
Senator Smith. And it runs for a period of 18 years?
Mr. Marconi. It runs over a period of 28 years, but the Govern-
ment has the right to terminate it, on certain conditions, after 18
years.
Senator Smith. Will you state to the committee, in general terms,
the scope of that contract? I do not mean, now, to go into the exact
details; I mean as to whether that contract requires you to install
your apparatus and supervise its operation and management, or
whether you receive compensation by an agreement which permits
the management to fall under the control of the British officials?
Mr. Marconi. This contract provides that within a certain period
of time — I think it is two years — ^we shall erect these stations for
the Government of England in Cyprus, Egypt, India, South Africa,
Singapore, and other places where the Government may decide later
to erect them.
We are paid a certain lump sum per station for the expense of
erection, and the station, before being accepted by the Government,
has to satisfy certain requirements in regard to speed of transmission,
effectiveness, and reliability.
Senator Smith. Does this contract cover any charge made by yon
for the use of patented devices ?
Mr. Marconi. It does; and, if I may explain, a sum which should
represent some manufacturing profit, payable, I think, partly before
and partly on the completion of each plant. My company has to run
each station for six months on behaff of the Government. After six
months the Government takes over the station; and for a pericxi of
28 years the Government pays to my company 10 per cent of the
gross receipts at each station and pays all expenses.
Senator Smith. Are these gross receipts from Government busi-
ness as well as commercial business?
Mr. Marconi. From all business; but they can terminate this
agreement in 18 years if they do not want to use any of my patented
inventions. If 3'^ou will allow me to volunteer, we have anotner con-
tract in regard to ship and shore stations in England. These are
long-distance stations and are generally intended for communication
between country and countrj^ more than for communication between
shore and ship.
Senator Smith. Have you the exclusive right to equip the public
or governmental stations of Great Britain with your system of wire-
less telegraphy?
Mr. Marconi. We have that right in so far as the courts uphold
the patents under which wireless telegraphy is worked in England.
We have some particular arrangements with the Government also.
Senator Smith. Have you any contract of a similar character with
the Government of Gerinanv?
Mr. Marconi. We have not.
Senator Smith. Have you had ?
Mr. Marconi. No: we have not.
466 '^ TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator S^iith. And have you had any dealings with the Govern-
ment of the Germany Empire?
Mr. Marconi. We have had some dealings with the Government
of Germany. We have equipped lightships for them.
During recent years we have come to an agreement with the Ger-
man company to work wireless telegraphy jointly on ships of the
German mercantile marine. This company is now in operation and
IS fitting German ships generally.
Senator S^iith. And works in harmony with your appliances?
Mr. Marconi. Works in harmony with us. We have a partition
of the receipts — of the profits.
Senator Smith. Have you any contract of character similar to
the ones with the British Government and the German Government,
which you have just described, with any other countries of the
world ?
Mr. MAKf'ONi. We have an exclusive contract with the Govern-
ment of Italv: at least, T should sav that I have.
Senator Smith. You, personally ?
Mr. Marconi. Personally; yes.
Senator Smith. What kind of a C(Uitract is that ?
Mr. Marconi. In consideration of not being charged for patent
rights in regard to the use of the system they undertake to equip
their shore stations and their colonies with \w\ ai)paratus and use
it exclusively for commercial purp( ses. being free for war and navy
purposes to use anything they like.
Senator Smith. Is that the cnly other Government with which
you or your companies have any contract of that kind ?
Mr. Marconi. No; there are several other Governments. There
is the Government of the Dominion of Canada, with which we have
a very comprehensive contract as* regards ship stations on the North
Atlantic coast, on the island of Newfoundland, and up the St. Law-
rence, and also as regards the staticn for communicating direct with
England across the Atlantic. I am not acquainted with the details
of this contract, but I think it is an important contract.
Senator S^kiiTH. With whom was it made — the Canadian officials
or the British officials?
Mr. Marconi. It was made with the Canadian Government.
Senator Smith. iVnd it runs over a period of years?
Mr. Marconi. It runs over a period of years — a considerable pe-
riod of vears — I should say over 10 years, at least.
Senator Smith. Is it now in force ?
Mr. Marconi. It is now in force.
Senator Smith. Have you constructed these stations?
Mr. Marconi. We have constructed a large i)roportion of them.
Senator Smith. As I understand, all these arrangements that you
have detailed are now in force?
Mr. Marconi. They are now in force, so far as I know.
Senator Smith. With what other countries have you contracts?
Mr. Marconi. We have an exclusive contract with the Govern-
ment of Newfoundland in regard to the stations on the coast of
Newfoundland, and that contract has a number of vears to run.
Senator Smith. Have you established stations up there?
Mr. Marconi. We have a number of stations up there.
Senator Smith. Where are thev located I
tt 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 467
Mr. Marconi. One north of St. Johns, one at Cape Race, one
in the Belle Isle Straits, one at Cape Eay, and one or two others, the
location of which I do not remeraDer.
Senator Smith. What is the type of apparatus installed in the
Cape Race office?
Mr. Marconi. I should call it a type of ship long-distance appa-
ratus.
Senator Smith. How far can you send the me^ssages with accu-
racy from that station?
Mr. Marconi. From that station to a properly equipped ship I
should say we could send messages with accuracy over 400 or 600
miles during the daytime and probably considerably over 1,000
miles during the nighttime.
Senator Smith. To a ship equipped like the Titanic^ would that
apparatus at Cape Race operate for a long distance, and with ac-
curacy ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; with the Titanic I should say it would
do about its best.
Senator Smfth. How about the Cai'pathia?
Mr. Marconi. With the Carpathia it would be good for a smaller
di^ance, but I certainly think over 300 miles in the daytime.
Senator Smith. To a ship like the Olympic
Mr. Marconi. It would do as well as it would do with the Titanic,
Senator Smith. At night you could communicate with the Olym-
pic from Cape Race how far?
Mr. Marconi. I should say, as a general rule, 1,200 miles or 1,500
miles.
Senator Smith. Do vou know^ with what apparatus the vessel
Frankfurt^ of the North German Lloyd Line, is equipped?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know exactly w-ith what it is equipped, but
I think it is equipped with an efficient apparatus, because they are
very careful what they put on board.
Senator S^iith. The Germans are?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. What is the w ireless equipment of the steamship
Calif ornian ?
Mr. Marconi. I am net aware of the exact type of apparatus; I
think it is a medium-distance apparatus.
Senator Smith. Do you know of a Canadian vessel, of the Cana-
dian Pacific Railway, called the Mount Temple?
Mr. Marconi. I have heard of her.
Senator Smith. Do you know. how she is equipped witli wireless?
Mr. Marconi. I think she is equipped with a medium or short-
distance apparatus.
Senator Smith. In that event, how far could slie ccmimunicate
accurately?
Mr. Marconi. Two hundred miles.
Senator Smith. By day or night?
Mr. Marconi. By day.
Senator Smith. How far by night?
Mr. Marconi. Probably 500 or 600 miles l)y night, but not very
t»ften.
Senator Smith. Do you regard the Cape Race Station as one of
the best stations you have on the coast of Newfoundland?
<( 9 9
468 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Marcoki. I regard it as a good station. It must be remem-
bered that it was equipped several years ago, and that the improve-
ments in wireless have been made very rapidly lately.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to put a station at Cape
Race ?
Mr. Marcom. Because the Canadian Government, the Newfound-
land government, and the shipowners, who use the St. Lawrence
route, were very anxious to have a station there, and also the trans-
Atlantic, Xew York to Liverpool interests.
Senator Smith. Why were they anxious?
Mr. Marconi. Because it would be useful for them in communi-
cating information in regard to where they were, in regard to fogs,
and in regard to ice.
Senator Smith. Do you know the position of the Titanic in the
North Atlantic when she sank?
Mr. Marconi. I read of her position and it has been pointed out
to me. I do not remember the actual position in degrees and minutes.
Senator Smith. Have you any means of telling how far the Titanic
was from your Cape Race station ?
Mr. Marconi. I have no direct means of telling.
Senator Smith. Have you any impression that the Cape Race sta-
tion would be the natural coast station to pick up the messages from
the Titanic?
Mr. Marconi. I think so. I would prefer to have my memory
refreshed as to the exact position.
Scnatcn- Fletcher. 41° 40' north; 50° 14' west.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I think Cape Race would be the best station.
Senator Smith. That would be the natural station to pick up the
conununications from a ship located about the place where the
Titanic sank i
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. What is the greatest distance over which you have
ever successfully operated your wireless telegraphy ?
Mr. Marconi. You mean between ship and shore?
Senator Smith. Xo; between coast and coast?
Mr. Marconi. From Clifton, in Ireland, to Buenos Aires, in South
America.
Senator Smith. I did not understand the other day in New York
what the distance was from Ireland, the point you speak of, to the
Argentine, where this message was received.
Mr. Marconi. It is approximately 0,000 miles. I would not say
exactly that ; it may be 5,900 or 6,100.
Senator Smith. And I think you said the other day that on the
coast of Brazil there were huge mountains that, if they influenced
this work, failed to destroy it on that test ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; it did not seem to interfere with the transmis-
sion of the electric waves.
Senator Smith. Did you send a message yourself?
Mr. Marconi. I received a message myself.
Senator Smith. You were at the Ireland office ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I was on shore in the Argentine.
Senator Smith. You were in the Argentine?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; and my other people were in Ireland. If you
will allow me, I should state that this is the greatest distance I'ecorded
ti -»_.^,^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 469
I know of in my experience. At the same time it was not a distance
over which, with that plant, you could carry out a satisfactory com-
munication. I mean we would get messages at certain times, when
the conditions in the space over this great distance were favorable;
and at other times we would get nothing. It was not a reliable
connection.
Senator Smith. When you got nothing did you think that the
messages had been intercepted ?
Mr. Marconi. No ; I did not.
Senator Smith. At sea or other shore stations ?
Mr. Makconi. They had been absorbed in the atmosphere. An-
other station can not intercept them so as to stop them; they can
only get a copy.
Senator Smith. Did you receive from any intermediate station, on
land or on sea, confirmation of these wireless messages that were sent
from Ireland ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I only had the confirmation of the operators
who sent them in Ireland.
Senator Smith. How long after the message was sent from Ireland
was it received in the Argentine ?
Mr. Marconi. The actual signs of the messages were received im-
mediately.
Senator Smith. How much later ?
Mr. Marconi. Theoretically, it should take, for 6,000 miles, one-
twentieth or one twenty-fifth of a second. I did not measure it, but
it did seem instantaneous.
Senator Smith. That is, within a minute?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; under a minute; one-twentieth of a second.
It traveled with the same speed as light, I should say. I was sure
that the message came from Ireland, because I got a personal mes-
sage from a friend of mine who was visiting the station at Ireland
on that day. I mean I checked it afterwards. I knew he had been
there onlv on that dav.
Senator Smith. What wave length was used in that test ?
Mr. ifARcoNi. About 23,000 or 24.000 feet: I should think about
S.OOO meters — over 7,000 meters.
Senator Smith. You have, given the name of the manager of your
company in England who has to do with the employment of op-
erators. Have you a manager who answers to that description in
America ?
Air. Marconi. Yes; I have.
Senator Smith. What is his name?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. John Bottomlev.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Bottomley here?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. Bottomley is not here. Also there is the presi-
dent of the American company. Gov. John W. Griggs, of Xew Jersey.
Senator Smith. What authoritv has Mr. Bottomlev?
Mr. Marconi. He is secretary and manager of the American Mar-
coni Co.
Senator Smith. Who is the officer next in rank in vour American
m
company ?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. de Sousa.
Senator Smith. What is his position?
Mr. Marconi. He is treasurer.
470 TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Dees he live in New York?
Mr. Maiuoni. He lives in New York.
Senator S3uth. Who is the next officer?
Mr. Marconi. Next to him is Mr. Sanimis.
Senator S^iith. What is his position?
Mr. Marconi. His position is that of chief engineer of the Ameri-
can Marconi Co., and I should say he is very intimately in touch
with everything concerning the e<]uipment of ships' and the
operators.
Senator Smith. He is very intimately in touch with the equip-
ment of ships and the operators?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; and the operation of the system.
Senator Smith. Where does he reside?
Mr. Marconi. He resides in New York. All are at 27 William
Street.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Sammis here?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. Sammis is not here.
Senator Smith. You gave Mr. Sammis's initials?
Mr. Marconi. I did not. I do not know them. L. Sammis, I
think, is his name.
Senator Smith. And his address is New York?
Mr. Marconi. No. 27 William Street, New York. We will fur-
nish these names and addresses, if you like.
Senator Smith. I would like to have the roster of the Marconi
Co. officers in America. Do you also keep a detailed roster of the
operators ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. I would like that also.
Mr. Marconi. I know that the American Co. keeps a register of
its own operators. I do not know that they have a register of all
the operators of all the other companies which have operators on
ships that come to New York. I could get a complete list of them
in a short time.
Senator Smith. Were you present at the so-called Berlin conven-
tion held in Berlin, Germany, two years ago?
Mr. Marconi. I was not present.
Senator Smith. Are you working under the terms of that con-
vention, so far as your work is carried on in England, in Germany,
in Italy, and in these other countries?
Mr. Marconi. In England. Spain, and France; yes. In Italy, no;
l)ecause Italy has not joined the convention.
Senator Smith. Italv is not a member of that convention?
Mr. Marconi. Italv is not vet a member.
Senator Smith. And the United States is not vet a member?
«
Mr. Marconi. The United States is not vet a member.
Senator Smith. In order that the record may show we are not
unaware of its present status, the convention has been ratified, I be-
lieve, 1)V the Senate, and the ratifications have not vet been ex-
changed.
Mr. Marconi. That is my understanding.
Senator Smith. I want to know, if you can tell me, who was the
first practical operator of wireless telegraphy covering long dis-
tances ?
Mr. Marconi. May I ask what you mean by long distances?
{( «, .« ff
TITANIC DISASTEK. 471
Senator Smith. I mean a distance that would require over 300-
wave lengths to communicate?
Mr. Marconi. 300 meters in ^ave lengths?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Marcoki. I think it was myself, in England.
Senator Smith. In what year?
Mr. Marconi. 1896 and 1897. I carried on tests for the army and
for the navy.
Senator S^iith. What were the circumstances surrounding those
tests ?
Mr. Marconi. I offered to demonstrate
Senator Smith. Had you been an operator before ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I had not. I had not been an operator. I took
an interest in electrical subjects generally. I had studied a great
deal. I was what I might rightly describe as an amateur.
Senator Smfth. If you can state briefly, I would like the record to
disclose it.
Mr. Marconi. I first carried out some tests in Italy with electrical
waves, which, at that time, in 1895, were well known. By a modifi-
cation of the apparatus, the distance over which these waves could be
sent and received was suddenly greatly increased in the practical
apparatus for producing waves. It was easy to send them from 20 to
80 yards. I invented apparatus which made them ai:)parent or made
it possible to detect tiiem over 2 or 3 miles. That was at the
time considered very interesting. After that I came to England,
where I had numerous relations, and I offered to demonstrate this
new idea to the British post office, the army, and the navy, and to
Lloyd's. They were very greatly interested in the system, and tests
were carried out and communication was very shortly established
over 9 miles. Tests were carried out. The first British ship that
was fitted was a yacht belonging to the late King Edward, and sev-
eral warships belonging to the British Navy and the Italian Navy.
The system worked very well up to a limited distance. It was
nowhere near as reliable as it is now. After a certain space of time,
in 1899 and 1900, some further improvements were perfected hy my-
self, and some by others, which greatly increased the range and made
it apparent at once that it would be possible to communicate over
thousands of miles, and steps were taken for the installation of sta-
tions to carry out tests to show if it were possible.
If you will allow me to state, the first tests in America were car-
ried out by myself, in 1899, at which time I also carried out experi-
ments on battleships of the United States Navy, the New York and
the Massachusetts. Communication was established, I think, up to
20 or 25 miles, or something like that, at that time.
Senator Smith, Mr. Marconi, all of these experiments finally
eventuated in your ability to communicate messages over about 6,000
miles with accuracy, as yon have described?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; although I think that at present the usefiil
reliable range is something like 3,000 miles.
Senator Smith. Has science continued to improve the method?
Has the method been improved recently ?
Mr. Marconi. It has been improved recently, and it is continuing
to be improved.
Senator Smith. All the time?
472 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Marcx)ni. All the time.
Senator Smith. AVhat do you ultimately expect of it ?
Mr. Marconi. I expect it will be one of the principal means or
methods for communicating between distant parts of the world. I
am not ^uite so certain at present whether it may be useful for com-
municating between places of short distance from each other, say,
like New York and Brooklyn or Jersey City. I think wires would
be better there ; but for communication, say, between New York and
England, or between New York and San Francisco, or between Chi-
cage and another distant place, I think that with the increase of speed
and the undei-standin^ or electricity it will some day become the chief
means of communication.
Senator Smith. Have you any idea that this system will be substi-
tuted for the telegraph in the operation of railroad trains?
Mr. Marconi. It may be. in some cases. I am not quite certain
of that. That is looking, or course, very much into the future.
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether, in the receipt of a
wireless message from shore to ship, or from ship to ship, or from
ship to shore, there is any noise or alarm accompanying this message
through which an operator sitting near woula be apprised of the
coming of the message?
Mr. Marconi. In the older apparatus, that was fitted on ships six
or seven years ago, there was an arrangement which rang a bell
and gave an alarm when the ship was called. This apparatus, how-
ever, had the disadvantages of only working over a very limited dis-
tance and of being unreliable. I mean to say that sometimes it would
not act and at other times it would give false calls. It would be
affected by natural effects, or the electricity of the atmosphere, and
it would ring up the operator at night for nothing.
Senator Smith. Let me see if I understand you. A message, per-
haps not intended for the ship Titanic^ for instance, if sent from the
Cape Race station, if the apparatus on ships had an alarm device
would alarm every ship witnin the radius of that message, as well
as the one for which it was intended ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes ; that is exactly so.
Senator Smith. There is no reliance to be placed upon the warning
simal ?
Mr. Marconi. At present there is not. Of course, it may be pos-
sible to devise something.
Senator Smith. If the operator was not at his apparatus with the
telephone upon his head he would be unable to detei^t the message, or
the fact that he was being called? Is that right?
Mr. Marconi. That is right There is no reliable means at present
that will enable him to do so.
Senator Smith. Then a ship at sea, equipped with wireless tele-
graphy, if it is to be serviceable in an emergency, should have an
operator all the time on duty ; should it not ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir. I should add the words "If it is to be
serviceable to others in distress."
Senator Smith. If it is to be serviceable to others?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; because in case of accident to itself it can
always call its operator and ask him to call for assistance — to ask for
assistance.
4£ ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER, 473
Senator Smith. The Carpathia had but one operator ?
Mr. Marconi. Only one operator.
Senator Smith. How many operators are there on the Calif omianf
Mr. Marconi* I believe there is only one, but I am not certain.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many operators there are on
the M&wnt Temple^ the Canadian boat?
Mr. Marconi. Only one, I believe.
Senator Smith. And on the Frankfurt?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know as to the Frankfurt^ because it be-
longs to a company with which I am not in close touch.
Senator Smith. Not being advised of the intention of any shore
or ship station to communicate with another ship by specified minutes
or hours previously arranged, a call might be made for assistance,
a distress call — C. Q. D. — and not heard or taken at all unless the
operator happened at that moment to be at his apparatus ?
Mr. Marconi. That is a fact.
Senator Smith. What is the pay of a wireless operator, generally
speaking, in this country?
Mr. Marconi. I am not aware of the exact pay in this country.
Senator Smith. What is it in England?
Mr. Marconi. In England it is from, I should sav, beginning at
$4 a week to $10 or $12 a week^ with board and lodgmg. Of course,
you have not asked me this, but I might say it is fairly easy to get
operators on those terms in England because it is a rate of pay which
is considerably higher than what they get on the shore telegraphs,
and, of course, the fact of going to sea is very attractive to a great
number of young men.
Senator Smith. The hazard does not seem to deter them from that
service?
Mr. Marconi. No; it does not.
Senator Smith. Can you give the wages of wireless operators in
America ?
Mr. Marconi. I can not give them accurately. I know that they
are slightly higher than the wages in England.
. Senator Smith. Was the wireless operator on the Carpathia em-
ployed in England or America?
Mr. Marconi. He was employed in England.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Bride, who survived the Titanic disaster,
employed in England or in America?
Mr. Marconi. He was employed in England.
Senator Smith. And the same is true of Mr. Phillip, who per-
ished? .
Mr. Marconi. The same is true of Mr. Phillips.
Senator Smitti. Do you know Mr. Bride?
Mr. Marconi. I have known him since the accident.
Senator Smith. Only since then ?
Mr. Marconi. Only since then.
Senator Smith. Where is he now ?
Mr. Marconi. He is in New York.
Senator Smith. What is his physical condition?
Mr. Marconi. He is still suffering from injuries to his ankles.
He is ready to come here whenever he is required, but it was thought
that until you asked for him he might remain where he is in an en-
deavor to get well.
474 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Do you know Mr. Cottam, the wireless operator
of the Cnrpafhiaf
Mr. Marconi. I do; but I have only met him since the accident to
tlie Titcmic.
Senator Smith. AVhere were you on Sunday, April 14, last ?
Mr. Marconi. I was in New York.
Senator Smith. Where were you on Monday following?
Mr. Marconi. I was also in ]Sew York City.
Senator Smith. Did you have any communication, personally or
by your orders, with the Cnrpathht on Sunday night or Monday ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I had none whatever.
Senator Smith. Did you have any communication with Cape Race
fetation?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On Sunday or Monday?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. Did you have any communication with the Ccir-
pathia^ directly or throuo:h a ship or coast station, on Sunday, Mon-
day', Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thui-sday up to the time of the arrival
of the Caiyathia in New York?
Mr. Marconi. I had no direct comnumication with the Carpathhi,
I telephoned my office at frequent intei'vals.
Senator Smith. On what days?
Mr. Marconi. On all those days: and I stated that I was yerv
anxious to obtain information of what had happened, and if there
was any mean*^ of ffettinff it
Senator Smith. To whom did you telephone?
Mr. Marconi. T telephoned to Mr. Bottomley, manager of the
American company.
Senator Smith. Did you telephone to anybody else?
Mr. Marconi. Not tliat I remember; s<imebody else may have
answere<l me — Mr. Sauunis, I thmk. Numerous newspapers tele-
phoned to me.
Senator Smith. And you telephoned to Mr. Bottomley, and pos-
sibly to Mr. Sammis?
Mr. Mar(x)xi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did a-ou get any information from them?
Mr. Marconi. I got no iniFomiation except, I think it was, on Mon-
day evening.
Senator Smith. At what time?
Mr. Marconi. About a quarter to 7.
Senator Smith. What information was that?
Mr. Marconi. The information was that the Titanic had sunk,
with a very heavy loss of life.
Senator Smith. That was about 7.80 o'clock?
Mr. Marconi. Between 7 and 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Between 7 and 8 o'clock Monday evening, the
15th of April?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I believe it was.
Senator Smith. Who communicated that fact to you?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. Bottomley communicated that fact to my sec-
retary.
Senator Smith. Your secretary communicated it to you?
Mr. Marconi. My secretary communicated it to me.
it . ^^.^ If
TITANIC DISASTER. 476
Senator Smith. That was the first information you received from
any officer or employee of your company, anywhere f
Mr. Marconi. Anywhere.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you got that information!
Mr. Marconi. I did not do anything. I was exceedingly surprised
and shocked at the news. It seemed to me almost impossible.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate the information to the
White Star Line?
Mr. Marconi. I did not, because I was told that the White Star
Line was already informed.
Senator Smith. When were you told that!
Mr. Marconi. I was told that at the same time.
Senator Smith. That evening?
Mr. Marconi. That evening. I was told that the White Star Line
was aware of the fact. I communicated it to some friends of mine
that I met.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything after Monday evening,
between 7 and 8 o'clock, from any of your officers or from any ship
or shore station regarding the loss of the Titanic up to Thursday
evening?
Mr. Marconi. I think my office informed me that the Carpathia
was returning to New York with the survivors; at least, I should
say I am certain that my office informed me of that.
Senator Smith. When was that?
Mr. Marconi. That was Tuesday evening, I should say. But I
am not aware whether they got that direct or from the newspapers.
Senator Smith. That was Tuesday, the 16th?
Mr. Marconi. Tuesday, the 16th.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the hour of the day ?
Mr. Marconi. It was late in the evening, after it was dark.
Senator Smith. Late in the evening?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you got that information?
Mr. Marconi. I did not do anything.
Senator Smith. What was done by your informant ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate that fact to the White
Star people?
Mr. Marconi. They did, or it may have come from them.
Senator Smith. Did you make further inquiry from the Carper
thiaf
Mr. Marconi. I asked my office whether they had any more infor-
mation, and I was told that it was very difficult to get it, because
the Carpathia would be very busy attending to the messages of
the captain and of the passengers on board.
Senator Smith. And you made no further attempt?
Mr. Marconi. I made no further attempt because I did not think
it was ri^ht to interfere in any way with the working of the wire-
less installations or to use any authority I might have to influence
the operators, or to try to influence the captain, who I think were
the best judges of the situation.
Senator Smith. And you made no attempt to do so?
4047&— PT 6—12 2
476 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Mr. Mahconi. I made no attempt to extract information from the
ship. I was concerned only as to whether the wireless was work-
ing well or not, and I was informed it was working well.
Senator Smith. Who informed you of that?
Mr. Marconi. Mr. Bottomley.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bottomlev, vour manager?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. But you 3'ourself made no attempt to conmiuni-
cate with the Carpathia after that ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I did not.
Senator Smith. Where were vou on Thursday, the day of the
landing of the Carpathia?
Mr. Marconi. I was in New York City.
Senator Smith. At your office?
Mr. Marconi. I called at my office. I was at mv hotel, the Hoi-
land House, most of the day.
Senator Smith. But in communication with your office?
Mr. Marconi. But in communication with my office.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the Carpathia landed at
the Cunard dock with the suryiyors of the Titanic wreck?
Mr. Marconi. I was dining with Mr. Bottomley, whom I men-
tioned. I had the intention of going on board the Carpathia as
soon as she reached dock, but she happened to get in sooner than
we expe(!ted. I therefore left the house where I was dining and
proceeded to the dock, and we got on board.
Senator Smith. What time?
Mr. Marconi. At about half past 9, just when the suryiyors were
leaving, or just when the last survivors were leaving.
Senator Smith. You got on board?
Mr. Marconi. I got on board.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you got on board?
Mr. Marconi. I went to the wireless operating room.
Senator Smith. Did you find the operator there ?
Mr. Marconi. I found the operator there.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him ?
Mr. Marconi. I said I was glad to see him and congratulated him
on what I had heard he had done. I inquired after his senior oper-
ator, Phillips.
Senator Smith. That is, you inquired of Bride about his senior
operator, Phillips?
Mr. Marconi. About Phillips. The operator of the Carpathian
Cottam, was not there.
Senator Smith. Where was he?
Mr. Marconi. He had gone ashore immediately the ship arrived.
Senator Smith. Where did he go? Do you know?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know where he went.
wSenator Smith. Did you see him that evening?
Mr. Marconi. No. I spoke to him on the telephone that evening.
Senator Smith. Where was he?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know where he was.
Senator Smith. AVhere were you when you telephoned ?
Mr. Marconi. I was at the Holland House.
Senator Smith. What did vou say to him over the telephone?
a . ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 477
Mr. Marconi. He asked me if he could give an account of what
had happened; if it would be all right; if there was anything in ihe
rules against it. I said no; certainly to give every account he could;
to disclose anything he knew about it.
Senator Smith. You told him he could give it ?
Mr. M14RCONI. Yes; I did. I should state, if you will allow me, in
regard to this question of operators, that there is a rule in these com-
panies that operators must not act as reporters. They must accept
messages from everyone in the order in which they are presented, and
they are bound to transmit them. But it is not encouraged that they
should send stories of their own; at least, they would be dismissed if
they did it.
Senator Smith. Is it not made an offense under the laws of Eng-
land to do it ?
Mr. Marconi. It is an offense, punishable by imprisonment, to dis-
close the contents of messages. On an occasion like this, of course
some latitude would have been given. I mean, I think that on an
occasion like this it would have been a good thing if some report had
been sent. But this was a matter that depended on the discretion of
the operator, and he used his discretion in such a way that he did not
send any.
Senator Smith. He did not send out anything?
Mr. Marconi. . No.
Senator Smith. Is it an offense under the laws of Germany?
Mr. Marconi. It is an offense, so far as I know, to disclose the con-
tents of messages.
Senator Smith. What did you say to him over the telephone?
ilr. Marconi. He told me that a journalist wanted a story of the
disaster, and that he was going to be paid something for it.
Senator Smith. How much?
Mr. Marconi. He did not tell me how much. He asked if he could
«rive the story, and I said yes.
Senator Smith. Where was he?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know where he was.
Senator Smith. You do not know from what place he was tele-
phoning?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not know from what place. It was very
late. It was about 2 o'clock in the morning.
Senator Smith. What time did the Carpathia arrive at New
York ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe it was Thursday evening. I forget the
date. It was Thursday of last week.
Senator Smith. Do you use anv cipher code in the transmission
of wireless messages for yourself^
Mr. Marconi. I have a cipher code with my officers in London. I
have none with operators.
Senator Smith. What is the cipher?
Mr. Marconi. It is mostly composed of Western XTnion words with
another meaning attached to them; that is, different from that mean-
ing given in the Western Union code.
Senator Smith. Is it a registered cipher?
Mr. Marconi. No; it is not. That is, part of it is registered and
part is not.
Senator Smith. Do vou use it often?
478 '' TITANIC " DISASTBB.
Mr. Marconi. No, rarely; only on rare occasions.
Senator Sbiith. Did you use it in your communication with the
Carpathia?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or with any shore station?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. Did you send a wireless to the operator on the
Carpathia and ask him to meet you and Sammis at the Strand Hotel,
502 West Fourteenth Street, saying " Keep your mouth shut "?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir; I did" not.
Senator Smith. If any message of that kind was sent in your
name, you did not send it ?
Mr. Marconi. I did not send it.
Senator Smith. And you know nothing of it?
Mr. Marconj. I know nothing of it, except some statements or
rumors I have heard of it in the press.
Senator Smith. Do you know the naval vessel Florida?
Mr. Marconi. Yes ; I have heard of her.
Senator Smith. Is she equipped with wireless apparatus?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; I think so. I think they all are.
Senator Smith. I am going to read to you the following, and ask
whether you know anything about any fact or circumstance con-
nected with it.
This is from the commanding officer of the Florida to the Secretary
of the Navy, dated April 22, and reads as follows:
On the evening of the steamship Carpathians nrrival In New York, the four
following radiograms were Intercepted by the chief operator. J. R. Simpson,
chief electrician, I'nltecl States Navy. They appear to me to be significant
enongh to be brought to the attention of the department:
" Seagate to Carpathia — 8.12 p. m.
*' Saj', old man, Marconi Co. t^iliing good care of yon. Keep your mouth shut,
and hold your story. It is fixed for you so you will get big money. Now.
please do your best to clear."
That was 8.12 p. m. Then follows this one :
.s.:iO p. M.
To Marcf/ni officer, Carpathia and Titanic:
Arranged for your exclusive story for dollars In four figures, >Ir. Marconi agre**-
ing. Say nothing until you see me. Where are you now?
J. M. Sammis. Opr. (\
1) p. M.
From Seagate to Carpathia oi)erator: Go to Strand Hotel. 502 West Four-
teenth Street. To meet Mr. Marconi. C.
0.33 p. M.
From Seagate to Carpathia: A i)er8onal to operator Carpathia. Meet Mr.
Marconi and Sammis at Strand Hotel, 502 West Fourteenth Street. Keep your
mouth shut. Mr. Marconi.
What can you say about that, Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know anything whatever about any of
those messages. They are not in the phraseology which T would
have approved of if I had passed them. I should, however, say that
I told Mr. Sammis or Mr. Bottomley — I do not remember which —
that I, as an officer of the British company, would not prohibit or
prevent these operators from making anything which they reason-
ably could make out of selling their story of the wreck. I was anx-
a .^„« >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 479
ious that, if possible, they might make some small amount of money
out of the information they had.
Senator Smith. Is that a custom of your company ?
Mr. Marconi. It is not a custom ; it is a thing that is done
Senator Smith. Is it a habit ?
Mr. Marconi. No; it is not a habit. It is done on very special
occasions. I think it was done on the occasion of a former wreck.
Senator Smith. Where?
Mr. Marconi. The Republic. I think Binns was allowed to make
a statement to the press.
Senator Smith. For money ?
Mr. Marconi. For money.
Senator Smith. Binns was the operator who stuck to his post ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. And who has been so highly conuiiended through-
out the world?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you say he was permitted to sell his story?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; it my recollection is correct, he was.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, do you wish the committee to under-
stand that you approve that method?
Mr. Marconi. I was in favor of it, or at least I approved of or
consented to his getting something out of this story.
Senator Smith. I know, but let me ask you this. With the right to
exact compensation for an exclusive story detailing the horrors of the
greatest sea disaster that ever occurred in the history of the world,
do you mean that an operator under your company's direction shall
have the right to prevent the public from knowing of that calam-
ity
Mr. Marconi (interrupting). No.
Senator Smith. Hold on a moment [continuing]. Of. knowing of
tJiat calamity except through the exclusive appropriation of the facts
by the operator who is cognizant of them ?
Mr. Marconi. I say, not at all. I gave no instructions in regard to
withholding any information, and I gave no advice or instructions in
regard to any exclusive story to anybody. The only thing I did say
or did authorize was that if he was offered payment for a story of the
disaster, he was permitted, so far as the English company went, to
take that money.
Senator Smitii. Mr. Marconi, if that is the case — vou sav vou were
an officer of the British company ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; and for that reason I was consulted about it.
Senator Smith. If his mouth were to be closed, if the mouth of this
operator were to be closed so that the details of that catastrophe could
not be printed, would not the English Government and the British
l>€ople be deprived of the knowledge which was in the exclusive pos-
session of this operator?
Mr. Marconi. With every deference, I do not quite understand
yf>ur question or what you are referring to.
Senator Smith. I have not disclosed my whole purpose, and I am
not going to. I am just seeking to get what you know about it.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; but, with every deference, I believe you are
assiuning — I may understand you wrongly — that I wished or in-
structed this man to withhold information.
480 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you know of the attempt of the President of
the United States to communicate with the Carpathia through the
Chester?
Mr. Marconi. Will you allow me to finish my answer?
Senator Smith. Certainly.
Mr. Marconi. I say emphatically that is not a fact.
Senator Smith. Wliat is not a fact ?
Mr. Marconi. That I tried to withhold any information.
Senator Smith. I have not said that you tried to withhold it. I
hope you will not draw any such inference. I am just asking you if
you did it.
Mr. Marconi. My answer is, no.
Senator Smith. Do you know of the attempt of the President of
the United States to get into communication with the wireless op-
erator of the Car pat hut through the (lovernment station on the
Chester?
Mr. Marconi. I heard of that through the papers, and when I got
on board the Carpathia that night I asked the surviving operator
Senator Smith (interposing). Bride?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; Bride — what he knew about it. He stated —
and, of course, I understand he will be called to give any further
information on the matter — ^that the Chester had asked him for a
repetition of the list of the passengers' names.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Marconi. Of the survivors" names.
Senator Smith. I imderstand ; but at what time was the request
made?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know.
Senator Smith. All right.
Mr. Marconi. I did not go into that detail.
Senator Smith. Very well ; go on.
Mr. Marconi. And that he told the Chester that this list had
already been sent and acknowledged by a shore station.
Senator Smith. And that he need not answer any further inquiry
from the Chester?
Mr. Marcx^ni. No; I understand he gave him this information, and
I understand he gave him some additional names. I asked him also
in regard to the inquiry which it was stated had been sent on behalf
of the President of the United States, and he told me that he had
I'eceived no such inquiry; that if he had received it he certainly
would have answered it, but he had not received any such inquiry.
Senator Smith. You are unable to fix the time when he said that
he had not received such an inquiry, or when he replied that he had
already furnished the information as to those surviving? Yon ai^e
unable to fix that time?
Mr. Marconi. Yes. I was unable to fix the time; but my question
covered the whole time, so far as I meant it, in which the Carpathia
was operating; that is, the whole time from the rescuing of the pas-
sengers to her arrival in New York.
Senator Smith. You say that the operator on the Carpathia, Mr.
Cottam, exercised, by your permission
Mr. Marconi. 1 beg your pardon; not by my permission.
t( ,.^^. ^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 481
Senator Smith (continuing). The right to sell the story which
came to him in his capacity as an operator for his own pecuniary
benefit ?
Mr. Marconi. I mean, sell a story.
Senator Smith. A story; but it may have turned out to be '" the
storv"?
Mr. Marconi. Xot necessarily.
Senator Smith. Not necessarily; but it may have done so?
Mr. Marconi. It may have done so.
Senator Smith. It depended on how close-mouthed he was from
the time he conceived the idea of selling his story, did it not; and it
might have been exclusive?
Mr. Marconi. It was not the intention that it should be exclusive.
Senator Smith. It was not your intention?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it your intention that the Cottam story or
the Bride story should be exclusive?
Mr. Marconi. Certainly not ; and I regret it, and I have expressed
that already, that they had not said something already, something
more explanatory, before they reached New York.
Senator Smith. You have said that from Sunday night, when you
were fir^t apprised of this calamity, you frequently called up your
office; that information was lacking; that the public were clamoring
for details; that the world was interested in this information; that
you were unable to get it satisfactorily. I would like to have you
give the committee your best judfi^ment as to whether the custom
exercised by Binns in the Repvbur (Jisaster and the privilege you gave
to Cottam in the 7V^<7w/<" disaster had anything to do with your failure
to get this information and the failure of the world to be ap-
prised of the details of this horror. Before you answer I want
that question read.
The question was read by the stenographer.
Mr. Marconi. In my opinion, it had not, because these operators
were never instructed not to give out news.
Senator Smith. Why did they not give it out?
Mr. Marconi. They should be able to answer that question them-
selves, I should say.
Senator Smith. You are the head of the wireless system, a recog-
nized authority, a man who gives it your constant care, and a man
of reputation and character, for whom the people have the highest
respect, and I would like to have your judgment about it.
Mr. Marconi. About what?
Senator Smith. You are connected up with this matter through
these intercepted radiograms, your name is mentioned, an injunction
seems to have arrived at the Carpathia coming from you and youi
manager or chief engineer, and I would like the information I have
asked for in that question, if you can give it.
Mr. Marconi. I wish to respectfully state that I have already
testified that I have no knowledfire whatever about any of these
messages which were sent or are alleged to have been sent to the
operator on the Carpathia,
482 TITANIC DISASTBE.
Senator Smith. And vou have net talked with Mr. Sammis
about it?
Mr. Marcx)ni. I state on oath that I did not talk to him on any
single occasion.
I^nator Smith. At the time or since?
Mr. Marconi. At the time or since.
Senator Smith. You have seen the rumors of this matter, have
you not, in the papers?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. I have not seen those rumors; but after seeing
those rumors did you talk with Sammis about the matter?
Mr. Marconi. I saw Mr. Sammis for a few moments some time ago,
and I told him — I said. " You know that I did not authorize that
message."
Senator Smith. When did you tell him that?
Mr. Marconi. I told him that since the survivors were landed.
I do not remember the exact date.
Senator Smith. About what time?
Mr. Marconi. Three or four days ago, I should say.
Senator Smith. Have you talked with him about it since /
Mr. Marconi. No, sir. I should state in explanation, also, of this
matter
Senator Smith. Please do ; I would like to have you, in your own
way. I am not seeking to embarrass you at all. I simply reel it my
duty to get the information I have asked for.
Mr. Marconi. What I meant and intended when I stated to the
operator that he could take something for a story or for an account
of the disaster was that newspapers and reporters would be so inter-
ested in what he had to say, and in himself personally, in view of the
fact especially that Bride had behaved in such a brave and gallant
manner, that, without withholding any general information, they
would be ready to pay him an amount for a story or a description
which he could give them.
Senator Smith. Have you finished ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, did you expect the operator to syndi-
cate this information, or to give it exclusively to one newspaper?
Mr. Marconi. I did not expect him to give it exclusively.
Senator Smith. Did you expect him to put the story up to the high-
est bidder?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you expect him to favor any particular news
agency ?
Mr. Marconi. I did not.
Senatgr Smith. Did you expect him to sell it to the Associated
Press ?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. Did you expect him to sell it to the other press
associations, or any of them — either of them ?
Mr. Marconi, ifo; I did not.
Senator Smith. You expected that he would impart his informa-
tion to some newspaper?
Mr. Marconi. To some newspaper. I did not care which.
<< 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 483
Senator Smith. And that newspaper could give him what it chose
to give him for an exclusive story containing the details of the Titanic
disaster?
Mr. Marconi. No; there was no idea of an exclusive story in my
mind.
Senator Smith. If I understand you correctly, you did not seek to
control the operator, at all, in what he would say or to whom he
would say it?
Mr. Marconi. No; I did not.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the use of the words, "Ar-
ranged for your exclusive story for dollars in four figures, Mr. Mar-
coni agreeing. Say nothing until you see me. J. M. Sammis," would
indicate ? What aid he mean by " four figures " ?
Mr. Marconi. I suppose it was something over a thousand dollars ;
but if you will allow me to repeat again
Senator Smith. Please do. I wish you would say anything you
want to about it.
Mr. Marconi (continuing). For the fourth or fifth or sixth time,
I say that I know nothing whatever about those messages.
Senator Smith. And you understand I am not saying that you do.
Mr. Marconi. Thank you.
Senator Smith. I am simply inquiring. Do you know whether
Cottam or Bride sold their story?
Mr. Marconi. I think they received remuneration for it, and that
may be called "sold," I presume. I mean that they were paid for it.
Senator Smith. Do you know how much they got?
Mr. Marconi. I do liot know how much Cottam got.
Senator Smith. Do you know how much Bride got ?
Mr. Marconi. I was told that Bride got $500.
Senator Smith. From whom?
Mr. Marconi. From the New York Times.
Senator Smith. Who told you that?
Mr. Marconi. I think it was Mr. Bottomley.
Senator Smith. The general manager of your company ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes. 1 should also say, I believe, one of the editors
of the New York Times, either Mr. Ochs or Mr. Vanander.
Senator Smith. Was it expected or did any officer of your com-
panv receive any portion of it, within your knowledge ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not believe anyone did receive any por-
tion of it.
Senator Smith. You say you do not believe it. Have you heard
thRt anyone did?
Mr. Marconi. No; I have not, but if I did hear it I would think
it would be an extraordinary thing and absolutely wrong:.
Senator Smith. Do you know what Cottam got for his story ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not.
Senator Smith. Do you know who purchased this story ?
Mr. Marconi. I think the New^ York Times got his story.
Senator Smith. The same paper?
Mr. Marconi. The same paper. But I am not absolutely certain
of that.
Senator Smith. Are you yourself interested in any way in the
New York Times?
Mr. Marconi, No.
484 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Bottomley?
Mr. Marconi. I do not think he is.
Senator Smith. Do you ivnow whether he is or not ?
Mr. Marc:om. Well, perhaps I am wrong; but I have no knowl-
edge in the matter.
Senator Smith. You do not know anything about it?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Sammis interested in the New York
Times ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Is any officer of the Marconi Co. interested in the
New York Times ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know. I do not think so, because if anv-
one was I would probably hear of it in some way.
Senator Smith. Is any director of your company interested in the
New York Times?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. Have vou heard from anv source anv statement
given as to the amount Cottam received for his story?
Mr. Marconi. No; I have not.
Senator Smith. Did you see his story?
Mr. Marconi. I saw the headlines of his story; I did not read it
through.
Senator Smith. In the New York Times?
Mr. Marconi. In the Times.
Senator Smith. When?
Mr. Marconi. I suppose on the day it was published.
Senator Smith. What day was it published?
Mr. Marconi. I can not remember that.
Senator Smith. The day following the arrival of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Marconi. I presume it was that day, but I can not say defi-
nitely.
Senator Smith. So they sold the story immediately after they ar-
rived, and it was printed the next morning?
Mr. Marconi. So I imderstand.
Senator Smith. All of which was done with your permissitm?
Mr. Marconi. I did not give my permission for that.
Senator Smith. You did not oppose it?
Mr. Marconi. I knew nothing about it. I only said that he could
obtain payment for an article.
Senator Smith. That is rather a consent, is it not?
Mr. Marconi. It is consent to the fact of obtaining payment —
nothing else.
Senator Smith. It is consent, notwithstanding it violates the laws
of the country in which you live.
Mr. Marconi. It is not a violation of the laws of the country in
which I live, with every respect.
Senator Smith. I tlicught giving out information was made a
criminal offense in England.
Mr. Marconi. I am afraid you misunderstood my previous an-
swer, (living out information of any message that passed through
the hands of an operator would be a criminal offense.
Senator Smith. This man gave it out, did he not?
(i f 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 485
Mr. Marconi. No; he did not give any information of any nies.sage
that passed through his hands.
Senator Fletcher. He means messages from other parties.
Mr. Marconi. Suppose the United States Navy nad done that.
t)f course it is a Government department and would be privileged.
But suppose an operator on another ship had given out messages
that he had intercepted, he would be liable to prosecution.
Senator Smith. The Titanic was a ship of the White Star Line i
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. The Whit-e Star Line is a British company?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. The information that Cottam received over the
wireless was from the operator of the Titanic. That information
was imparted in New ^ ork the day following the arrival of the
Car path ia for $500, was it not?
Mr. Marconi. Will you repeat that?
The stenographer repeated the question as above recorded.
Senator Smith. Pardon me. We do not want to leave vou in anv
doubt at all, Mr. Marconi. All the information regarding the sink-
ing of the Titanic^ at least the official information, was received by
the operator of the Carpathia from the operator of the Titanic?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. That was a part of the details of this horror, was
it not?
Mr. Marconi. It was; but
Senator Smith. Now, one moment, and then I will let you explain.
T want to complete my question. That information you consented
that your operators should give out ?
Mr. Marconi. No, absolutely.
Senator Smith. What did the headlines of this New York Times
article sav ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not know. I would have to have my memory
refreshed in that matter: there have been so many headlines since
the accident.
Senator Smith. If the article in the New York Times, given out
by Bride or Cottam, detailed the information or the horrors that
E'assed from the Titanic to th^ Carpathia by wireless, that would
ave been improper, would it not ?
Mr. Marconi. No; not in every case. The operator (m the Car-
pathia was at absolute liberty to disclose any information which he
personally received from the operator on the Titanic, The only
operator that I saw the night the Carpathia got into dock, as I
stated, was Mr. Bride. Mr. Bride had been, as we know, secojnd
operator on the Titanic, and had also assisted the operator on the
Carpathia after he was rescued by that ship. Mr. Bride was not
compelled by any law or regulation to withhold anything concerning
his experience on either the Tita?)ic or the Carpathia. He could
give out his story in the same way that any other of the SOO passen-
gers or crew were able to give out theirs. In regard to Cottam, the
operator on the Carpathia, as T have stated, I did not see him that
night. I gave him no instructions as to what he had to say or what
he should not say. He was perfectly entitled to tell his story. It
does not mean that an operator on a sinking ship — that the only
486 TITANIC DISASTEB.
means of making his story interesting is to disclose messages. He
was there during part of the, I shomd say, awful time, when the
survivors were rescued and brought to New York, and he had, no
doubt, a great deal which was of interest to the public. I absolutely
deny, in the most emphatic manner, that I stated or made any sug-
gestion to him to divulge anything which it would be improper or
unlawful for him to divulge.
iSenator Smith. I am \ery greatly obliged to you for that state-
ment, sweeping and broad and covering this situation, and I would
not have you gather the impression, nor have the public gather any
impression, that I am seeking to impute any motive to you that is
unworthy. Having this telegram signed " Sammis " and seeing the
figures mentioned, I think that I was quite justified in seeking to
ascertain what you might know about it; and the story that you
yourself were willing he should release was the story of the horroi^
and the details which followed this calamity, of which he himself, or
they, had personal experience, and over that you have not pretended
to exercise any censorship whatever.
Mr. Marconi. I thank you for your remarks at the beginning of
your question. I did not care whether it was through the New York
Times or any other newspaper, but I was very anxious that the public
should have the news of this disaster as quickly and as accurately as
possible; I should also state that this message signed by Mr. Sammis
and mentioning the four figures was, I believe from the information
before the committee, transmitted when the ship was practically
entering New York Harbor. It was not transmitted when the ship
was days out — a long way from shore. I do not know whether it
would have been possible, with interference going on in New York
Harbor, to have sent a story from the ship when the same was ap-
proaching the dock. I am not expressing any opinion of the mes-
sage except to state the fact that I did not authorize it ; and I might
also say that 1 do not like it.
Senator Smith. You have not approved it ?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. You are a British subject, and do not live in this
country ?
Mr. Marconi. I am an Italian, sir.
Senator Smith. Being a foreigner, I w^ant to draw your atten-
tion to the statement you have just made, that you were quite will-
ing: that the story of this catastrophe should go out to the public ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. You do not have any notion, do you, that the
public all read the New York Times?
Mr. Marconi. I mean a part of the public.
Senator Smith. Exactly. But w^ould it not have been a ^reat deal
belter if that information had been flashed from the ship to the
Marconi office, or if a reply had been given to the Chester^ which
contained all of that story, and to let it reach the world in that
wav?
Mr. Marconi. I am in absolute agreement with you; it would
have been very much better.
Senator Smith. In so far as the regulations of your company, or
its custom or habit, have gone in the past, this does not look exactly
like the right thing to do, does it?
'^ TITANIG " DISASTER. 487
Mr. Marconi. I have already stated that I did not approve of this
message, and I agree that it would have been better if the operator
had used his discretion and sent a description of what occurred at an
earlier date.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Marconi, you say you were in touch
with your offices in New York each day and night from the day
of this catastrophe, until the landing of the Carpathian seeking in-
formation. I would like to know whether you are aware of the fact
that the American Marconi Co. requested and secured the suppres-
sion of the operation of all its stations so as ,to expedite the receipt
of news?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I am aware that the American Marconi Co.
did everything in its power to expedite the receipt of news.
Senator Smith. Dia they suppress
Mr. Marconi. They stopped the operation of any station which
might interfere with the reception of news or communication with
any other ship or station which would have been directly concerned
in this.
Senator Smith. They put a silence signal on all their stations?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; except those which were necessary and essen-
tial to the obtaining of news or information.
Senator Smith. What stations were those that came within the
exception ?
Mr. -Marconi. The stations that belonged to the United Wire-
less Co., the assets of which have been absorbed by the Marconi Co.
They were requested not to operate with any ship, or not to prac-
tice. One or two Marconi stations — I can not recall which — ^which
were not essential, or which were unnecessary to communicate to
the Carpathian were asked not to transmit, and I think also some ar-
rangement was made with the United States Navy with regard to
minimizing any interference that might have occurred between the
Marconi station and the naval stations.
Senator Smith. Did the American Marconi Co. enjoin silence on
the stations of the United States Navy?
Mr. Marconi. Thej had no power of enjoining silence on them.
Senator Smith. Did they attempt to?
Mr. Marconi. They had some friendly communication with the
United States Navy in regard to what best could be done.
Senator Smith. The Marconi Co. requested it?
Mr. Marconi. I have no knowledge of exactly what passed, but I
know that my feeling and opinion was that we should request or
ask or arrange with the United States Navy to cooperate with us in
this matter.
Senator Smith. Did they do it?
Mr. Marconi. As far as I am aware, they did.
Senator Smith. So that plans were made and carried out which
were calculated to give the American Marconi Co. practically exclu-
sive control over the information about this catastrophe ?
Mr. Marconi. It was bound to have it, in this way : That the oper-
ator on the Carpa^hia was a Marconi operator, and also on the
Titanic^ and therefore he had to respond or communicate with the
(organization with which he was in touch and with which he was
accustomed to work.
488 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you yourself send anv communications to
yoiir English office or offices or stations about tlie matter?
Mr. Marconi. Not until long after the survivors had landed.
Senator Smith. Did you enjoin silence upon your English sta-
tions?
Mr. Marconi. I did not; nor would I have the power of doing so.
Senator Smith. That is under the control of the Government?
Mr. Marconi. It is under the control of the Government and it
is under the control of my codirectors in England.
Senator SMrrn. You made no attempt to do so?
Mr. Marconi. I made no attempt, and it would be contrary to
what I wished.
Senator Newi^nds. Mr. Marconi, you are a life senator of Italy,
are vou not ?
Mr. Marconi. I am not. I heard of a rumor of the desire of
electing me, but I am not eligible until I am 40 years of age.
Senator Newlands. Regarding this arrangement with Mr. Bride,
you simply expressed a willingness that he should make some monev
out of a narration of his experiences ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir. My feelings, expressed quite frankly, is
that these operators are paid a very small amount ; that certainly we
would have compensated them to some degree; but if it were possi-
ble for them to make some money out of the story that they had — I
do not say that they had exclusive information, but through permit-
ting themselves to be interviewed — I was very glad that they should
make this small amount. That was my sole feeling in the matter.
Senator Xewlands. You sav that the marconigram sent by Mr.
Sammis was sent about the time the Carpathia was entering New
York Harbor?
Mr. Marconi. So I understand.
Senator Newi^vnixs. So that would not have interfered at all with
any action on the part of the operator in giving full information
prior to that time?
Mr. Marconi. No; it would not have.
Senator Newlands. And it was not to be expected whilst they were
entering New York Harbor that the operator would be able to give
much information, however willing he might have been to do so?
Mr. Marconi. Certainly. I might also state that if the captain
had seen fit to send a report of what he knew, he could have done it
at any time; and no instructions, rightly or wrongly given, could
have held the operator.
Senator Newi^nds. I presume it would have been very difficult to
send by wireless a long and minute account of this entire disaster,
would it not, from the Carpathia while at sea?
Mr. Marconi. It would have been very difficult to send a long
account. Some short account might have been sent; but you must
remember these operators who have been before this committee are
men of not very much experience in general matters, but rely very
much upon the captain instructing them.
Senator Newlands. You had in view simply his receiving com-
pensation after his arrival for any story he might be able to give to
a newspaper?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; but I had no intention that the information
should be withheld in any way.
t( ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 489
Senator Xewlands. That is all I desire to ask.
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Marconi, is thei^e any wireless ccmipany op-
erating in England other than the Marconi i
Mr. Marconi. I should say, practically, no. There is one, or pos-
sibly there are two, companies that have tw^o or three ships, I think,
but the bulk of the ships or the great majority of the British ships
are fitted by the Marconi Co. I should say hundreds are fitted by the
Marconi Co. and a few 6 or 7, 8 or 10, by the others.
Senator Fletcher. Are there laws regulating radio communica-
tion i
Mr. Marconi. Yes; there is the English wireless-telegraph act;
and also England is a member of the Berlin convention, which is
enforced.
Senator Fletcher. Do you remember the date of that wireless-
telegraph act? . '
Mr. Maroonl I think it was 1904 or 1905 — something like that.
Senator Fletcher. Are there any other companies in Germany or
Canada ?
Mr. Marconi. In Canada there is a Marconi Co. In (Germany
there is a company the interests of which are held partly by the
Marconi Co. of England and partly by a German concern. I think
there are some Belgians interested m it, too.
Senator Fletcher. By whom were these operators on the Titanic
and Olympic and Carpathia employed ?
Mr. Marconi. They are employed by the English company.
Senator Fletcher. The wireless company ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; the Marconi International Marine Co.
Senator Fletcher. Not by the ships themselves?
Mr. Marconi. In the case of the Titanic and the Carpathia I think
they were employed by the Marconi Co. On some ships they are em-
ployed dii-ectly by the shipowners.
Senator Fletcher. But in the instances here Bride, Phillips, and
Cottam were employed by the Marconi Co., were they ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. They were under direction and control of the
Marconi Co.?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; except is so far as it does not affect the supreme
authority of the captain.
Senator Fletcher. The captain can give orders about sending
messages — when to send and what to send?
Mr. Marconi. Yes. There is a special clause in our agreements
with them that that shall be fixed so that in case of emergency or
danger the captain is absolute chief and head and ruler of everything
concerning the wireless, and all the commercial rules which hold in
ordinary times are suspended at the discretion of the captain.
Senator Fletcher. Of course, the captain can not know whether
his orders are being obeyed or not ? He himself is not able to conduct
the actual operation of an instrument in any way ?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Fletcher. He has to depend on the operator ?
Mr. Marconi. He generally orders that messages have got to be
censored by him or by one of his officers. On most ships no message
of any kind can leave the ship unless it is approved by the captam
or the officer he has delegated.
490 TTTANIO DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. But the captain himself would not know actu-
ally whether the message had been sent? He must rely on the state-
ment of the operator as to that?
Mr. Marconi. You refer to his own messages?
Senator Fletcher. Unless he is an expert himself.
Mr. Marconi. No, sir; if the captain sends a message he always
asks the operator afterwards if he has any doubt whether it has been
sent, and whether it has been acknowleoged. I, myself, have seen
that done on ships very often. He usually gets that information
very easih'. They have a telephone, as a rule, between the bridge
and the wireless operator.
Senator Fletcher. But the captain on board the ship will not
himself know whether the message which he has ordered sent has
actually ever been sent, will he?
Mr. jVIarconi. No; I should say he would know it, because if the
captain gave a message that was not sent or was not acknowledged,
it would be the duty of the operator to inform the captain of the
fact.
Senator Fletcher. Yes; but suppose the operator violated his
duty?
Mr. Marconi. Then he would not know it; but I do not think
that occurs very often.
Senator Fletcher. Then these operators on these ships which we
have mentioned here were employed by the Marconi Co., were paid
by the Marconi Co., were engaged by the Marconi Co., furnLshed
by the Marconi Co., and certified by the Marconi Co. to the ships they
were on ?
Mr. Marconi. I should add to that that they were certified by the
British Government, because they must be licensed by the Govern-
ment in order to be permitted to operate, and they were accepted
by the ship company, because the ship company fias the right to
accept an operator or refuse him, if they have any good I'eason for
so doing.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know what the law requires as to
experience of these operators and their training?
Mr. Marconi. The law requires that they should have knowledge
of the apparatus; that they should be able to repair faults in it:
that they should be able to transmit and receive with a certain speed
and accuracy ; and that they shall be cognizant of the rules and regu-
lations of the British wireless-teleffraph act and with the enact-
ments of the Berlin convention regmatmg wireless telegraphy.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know what experience these men had,
Cottam and Bride and Phillips?
Mr. Marconi. I think their experience was sufficient to enable
them to carry out their work. The Government examination is
pretty strict in the matter, and I think my company's examination.
to<j. is very strict.
Senator Fi-etciier. I was asking as to your personal loiowledge.
I understood vou to say you knew personally several of these oper
ators, and had known them for some time.
Mr. Marconi. I had not known these particular operators.
Senator Fletcher. You had not?
Mr. Marconi. Only since the accident.
4i f>
TITANIC DISASTEB. 491
Senator Fletcher. Is there any danger of interference in radio
communication, and difficulty in that respect, where messages are
being sent back and forth, and messages in other directions, between
other ships or between ships and the shore, are being sent at the
same time? Is not confusion likely to follow by such interference
as that?
Mr. Marcoki. The confusion is likely to follow unless the arrange-
ment of the stations and ship stations is properly regulated. That
is controlled by the rules which govern the wave length to be used>
and which generally compel the operators to discipline in the work-
ing of the apparatus. The result is that in England and other Euro-
pean countries ships use two wave lengths, one for communication
with shore stations. The shore stations use other wave lengths
which do not interfere with the ships communicating with each
other. The Boyal Navy, the Navy of England, uses wave lengths
different from the commercial navy, in order that there shall be no
interference with or by them. Other wave lengths are used by
the army, and still different wave lengths are used by them in com-
municating between En^and and foreign countries, like between
England and Canada. The Government, represented by the post
office, decides, after consulting the parties interested, what wave
lengths shall be apportioned to each particular service. I myself^
apart from my compan};, have an experimental station in England'
and I am given a certain wave length to work on which does not
interfere with the navy station at Portsmouth. If I want to change
it, after consultation with them they let me change it if I am reason-
able in the matter. Everything is regulated in such way as to cause
a minimum of interference, and I think so far this regulation has
been highly successful.
Senator Fletcher. And the regulation that you advise would
have reference to the wave length ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; the wave length, and what we call the damp-
ing of the wave — whether it is a wave likely to interfere or not.
There are what we call exclusive waves, and troublesome, meddle-
some waves.
Senator Fletcher. Now, in order to accomplish results in that
direction, how would you reach all interests and all parties that
might be concerned ? For instance, the laws of one country are one
way and the laws of another country another way, and shipping is
going on between those two countries.
Mr. Marconi. The Berlin convention has already arranged that
with all countries, and I suppose you are aware of it, but it is going
to meet again in June in England, and no doubt anything else that
any coimtry wants to bring forward to discuss at that meeting will
be considered then.
Senator Fletcher. Now we will pass from that. Your suggest
lion was that as the ship approached the harbor of New York it
would probably have been impossible to get wireless news from the
ship on account of interference. How would you avoid that?
Mr. Marconi. I would avoid that by legislation and regulation.
T would make it necessary for wireless stations to be licensed by the
Government. I do not presume to advise the Government in this
matter, but I am expressing my opinion.
40475— PT 6—12 3
492 TITANIC ^' DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. Yes; that is what I am asking for.
Mr. Marconi. I would apportion wave lengths to various parties
in such a manner that interference would not be created. It, how-
ever, too many oeople asked for license in a given area or district, so
that wave lengths could not be found to accommodate them all, the
authorities in that case Avould have to refuse any more licenses. My
advice would be that they should exercise their powers of discretion
and try to do their best and not stop experimentation, which might
handicap the progiess of the art. In England if some experimental
scientist or some one else w^ants to put up a station in a place where
he will interfere with the navy, he is told he can not do it ; but he is
offered another part of the country where he can carry on his work
without interferinj^ with anyone. I should say, now, in England it
is a punisliable offense to put up a station without a license. It is
something like having a still without a license of the Government
in some other countries; it is considered wrong. If you will allow
me also to state, everyone w^ho has a license, experimental or other-
wise, to operate wireless telegraphy, is enjoined to secrecy and must
not divulge the contents of any message he may happen to receive.
If he should do so his license is suspended, and he is liable to other
penalties.
Senator Fletcher. Passing from that to the subject of these com-
munications, would you feel, Mr. Marconi, that your company, or an
operator employed by your company, would have the right — the legal
right, I am speaking ot, now, irrespective of the moral right — to with-
hold information from the public m order to sell it as news'?
Mr. Marconi. You are speaking of the legal right ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Marconi. As to an operator, I should say no: he would have
no legal right to withhold it. But at the same time there is nothing
to compel him to send it. If he was ordered by the captain, or if
somebody sent a message through him or tendered a message for
transmission to shore, he would be obliged to send it; but there is
nothing, I think, which legally compels him to make up a story on the
ship and send it ashore.
Senator Fletcher. How about his answering inquiries ?
Mr. Marconi. Well, of course, the inquiries ought to be properly
addressed to the captain. The wireless operator is only a subordinate
official, whose business it is to operate the wireless. He is not usually
a man who can give very accurate information concerning matters
relating to a ship.
Senator Fletcher. Do you mean, for instance, if the operator on
the Titanic had received a message inquiring after the condition of
the siiip, that it would have been his business to communicate that
to the commander, and then answer according to the direction of the
commander ?
Mr. Marconi. That is what he should have done.
Senator Fletcher. He himself should not have replied ?
Mr. Marconi. No ; he himself should not have replied ; quite true.
That would be against the rules.
Senator Fletcher. You can concede, I presume, that if an oper-
ator is allowed to sell as news information such as these operators
had, he would be tempted to withhold information and refrain from
< i ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 493
answering inquiries in order to increase the value of his story, would
he not I
Mr. Marconi. He might be; but I never looked at it that way be-
fore.
Senator Smith. You sav that Binns made use of the information
he had of the Republic disaster, and sold it for his own benefit ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not exactly say that. I say that he received
payment for something that he said, for some story which he gave in
regard to the Republic disaster.
Senator Smith. You referred to the commendable course taken by
Bride, the surviving operator of the Titanic^ which merited the
highest praise, evidently, in your mind.
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you not think it would be wise to encourage
among your operators all over the world the same loyaltv and cour-
age ana daring and discipline that was shown by Bride \
Mr. Marconi. Yes; and I think everything that it is possible to do
in that direction is being done.
Senator Smith. Do you remember that Mr. Bride said that about
two minutes before the Titanic sank — I asked him if he left the sink-
ing ship, and his reply was, " Xo, sir," and I said to him, " Why did
you not leave ? " and he said, " Because the captain had not given me
permission." That was a pretty high order of discipline, was it not?
Mr. Marconi. Absolutely the highest.
Senator Smith. For such a service as that do you not think it
might very appropriately be left to the generosity and appreciation
of the people of the world to reward hiur instead of encouraging
him to get additional compensation by retailing his experiences to
a single newspaper for $500 ?
Mr. Marconi. I think it might be left to them. I want to just
follow up what I said by saying that in the case of Binns, he was
compensated in a special way by the company which employed him.
Senator Smith. By your company?
Mr. Marconi, By my company, and no doubt something of the
same kind will be done for Bride and Cottam.
Senator Smith. Before you leave the stand, would you care to
indicate whether in the future management of the Marconi Co. you
^would not discourage the course that was taken by these two men
i^ith regard to the sale of the stories of which they were in possession ?
Mr. Marconi. I certainly would. But I should add that I would
like that there should be no misunderstanding of this matter. I
had no intention of authorizing any exclusive story, and I was against
the withholding of any news.
Senator Smith. I understood you to say that, Mr. Marconi. You
are not under subpoena ?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You have come voluntarily?
Mr. Marconi. I have come voluntarily, and as long as I can pos-
sibly be in the United States I will be at the disposal of the committee
for any information which they may require.
Senator Smith. You expected to leave for Europe yesterday or
to-day ?
Mr. Marconi. I expected to leave Tuesday.
494 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And you voluntarily refrained from going until
you could communicate with mef
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; because I thought there might be some-
thing which you mignt require to see me about.
Senator Smith. And you came here of your own accord and are
willing to remain?
Mr. Marconi. I am willing to remain for a certain time. My
engagements in England are very pressing. Therefore I would ask
you to let me go as soon as possible.
Senator Smith. Can I asK you to have Mr. Sammis and Mr. Bot-
tomley come?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
- Senator Smith. Will vou undertake to do that?
Mr. Marconi. I will undertake to do that. I would like to know
when.
Senator Smith. Just as soon as they can get ready.
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is all. I want to thank you for your kind-
ness.
Mr. Marconi. Will you allow me to say one thing that you did
not ask me?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Marconi. In our organization a copy is kept of every message
received and sent on board a ship. Therefore, this register of mes-
sages may be of some use to the committee.
Senator Smith. Kindly get the time when each message was sent,
and the messages that passed between the Carpathian if you please,
and Mr. Bottomley and yourself, during those davs between the
accident and the arrival of the Carpwthia^ if we may have them ?
Mr. Marconi. Unfortunately the messages on the Carpaihia were
taken to the Mediterranean by the CarpatKia^ The captain would
not land them. We endeavored to get them, but the captain would
not give them out.
Senator Smith. Would it be possible for you to wire the operator
of the Carpathia and ask him to wire back copies of those messages ?
Mr. Marconi. I could ask him to do so. Of course, they win be
in the hands of the British Government very soon, these messages.
Senator Smith. Try, will you, and see if you can get them ?
Mr. Marconi. I will try.
Senator Smith. I am greatly obliged to you for your kindness in
coming. Let the officer oring in Mr. Cottam, the operator on the
Carpathia,
ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY OF HB. HABOLD THOMAS COTTAM.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, you have been sworn?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You testified in New York?
Mr. CJoTTAM. Yes, sir. ^
Senator Smith. You live in England?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you were the wireless operator on the Car-
pathia at the time the C. Q. D. distress call was received from the
Titanict
ft »*^. ^••^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 495
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. And you received that call?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir."
Senator Smith. And other messages from the Titanic before she
sank?
Mr. Cottam. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. How many other messages?
Mr. Cottam. About four, as far as I can remember.
Senator Smith. Can you recall the contents?
Mr. Cottam. I can not remember the exact purport of those mes-
sages, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, do you recall the substance of the
first message?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Just indicate what it was.
Mr. Cottam. " Come at once. We have struck a berg. It is a
C- Q. D." That was the first message.
Senator Smith. Can you fix the hour when it was received?
Mr. Cottam. About 11.20, sir. New York time.
Senator Smith. What was the ship's time, do you remember; or
Greenwich time?
Mr. Cottam. I did not look.
Senator Smith. When that message came, you had not retired for
the night?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were just about to retire?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You had taken oflF your coat?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But kept the telephone on your head ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And, as I understood you to say in New York, by
accident, merely, you caught this C. Q. D. distress call from the
Titanicf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You were merely waiting, and had kept these in-
struments on your head only in order that you might close some work
that you had been doing during the evening, or afternoon, with the
Oalifamianf
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. I was ^oing to confirm a " time rush " mes-
sa^ that I had communicated with tne Parisian during the afternoon.
Senator Smith. You were simply holding, awaiting confirmation
of a message you had sent ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And while, waiting for that, this C. Q. D. call
from the Titardc came?
Mr. Cottam. Not just then, sir. I went to the bridge in the mean-
time. Between waiting for the confirmation from the Parisian and
hearing the C. Q. D. I went up to the bridge to report the day's
communications.
Senator Smith. Did you have your coat off when you went up
there?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir ; I put my coat on again.
496 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And you reported the confirmation of the Pari-
stands message?
Mr. CoTTA3i. No; not the confirmation; the communications of
the day.
• Senator Smith. To whom ?
Mr. CoTTAM. To the officer on watch on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Who was it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Mr. Bissett, the second officer.
Senator Smith. He did not survive, did he ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; he is on the Carpathian
Senator Smith. Oh, yes. Murdock was the officer on watch that
night, was he not?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, Dean. Murdock was on the Titanic,
Senator Smith. Pardon me. You reported this information to
the officer you have named?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then you returned to your room?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And then you adjusted your telephone to your
head and laid off your coat and prepared to retire for the night?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then this call came; and what was your reply?
Mr. Cottam. I confirmed it, sir, by asking him whether I should
go to the bridge and ask the captain to turn around immediately,
and he said yes.
Senator Smith. Did you do so?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the next communication you received
from the Titanic?
Mr. CoTTAM. I confirmed our position, next.
Senator Smith. And did you j:et the Titanic* 8 f
Mr. Cotta3i. Yes, sir. The Titamc sent his position at the first
communication.
Senator Smith. The first message, the C. Q. D.?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You gave him your position?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How did you get it; from the captain or from
the officer?
Mr. CoTTAM. From the captain.
Senator Smith. What next occurred? - There were only four mes-
sages there, you say ?
Mr. Cottam. I stood by the Titanic and gave him assistance in
reading the other ships around about. He could not read the sig-
nals because of escaping steam.
Senator Smith. And you assisted?
Mr. CoTTAM. Assisted in communication.
Senator Smith. With other ships?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you assist him in communication with the
Frankfurt?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. JDid you have any commimication with the Frank-
fuHf
it . ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 497
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you assist him in communication with the
Olympic?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. With the Baltic?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any communication with the Mount
Temple?
Mr. Cottam. I had a communication with the Mount Teinple
about half -past 10; gave him good night.
Senator Smith. That night ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Before the accident occurred?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you know the position of the Mount Temple?
Mr. Cotpam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to get in communication
with him?
Mr. Cottam. As I say, I called the Parisian and I did not get a
reply and the Mount Temple gave me "Good night" as soon as I
called the Parisian.
Senator Saiith. Had you any information, or did you get any in-
formation at half-past 10 that night, as to the location of the Mou^nt
Temple?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir ; I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Did you get any communication from the Mount
Temple regarding proximity to ice ?
Mr. Cottam. No : I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Did any of these ships with which you were in
touch, around half -past 10 on that Sunday evening, say anything
to you about ice?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember anything about ice. I do in the
afternoon. I heard the Parisian and one of the other ships talking
about ice.
Senator Smith. What other one ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know whether it was the Calif omian or not.
Senator Smith. Did you get any message from the Califoimian
advising ships within the radius of that information that there was
ice at certain places in the north Atlantic?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get any telegram from the xlm^^rika about
ice, or intercept any telegram about it?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; the Amerika was a long way ahead.
Senator Smith. How do you know ?
Mr. Cottam. Because she left about the same time as we did. I
remember she got out of touch very quickly.
Senator Smith. She left Southampton about the same time vou
did?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; New York, I think.
Senator Smith. She left New York and was going
Mr. Cottam. Bound east, I think, from what I can remember. T
do not know. I know I could not establish communication ; she was
too far off.
({ -«.«.^^,^ *y
498 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And you did not have any communication at all
with the Amerikaf
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir. I do not remember having communication
with her.
Senator Smith. Then the only ships you did have communication
with were the Calif omianf
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. The Parisianf
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. The Olympic?
Mr. Cottam. Not until Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Then cut out the Olympic. The Mount Temple f
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Any other? I think I mentioned the Baltic.
Mr. CoTFAM. There were quite a number, but I can not remember
the names of the ships. There were about seven or eight, as far as
I can remember ; the United States^ for one ; and I had the Helig Olav,
I think, if I remember riffht.
Senator Smith. When did you have the Helig Olavf
Mr. Cottam. Some time in the Sundav afternoon; directlv after
lunch, if I remember.
Senator Smith. Where were they ; could you tell ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. From the strength or from the impact, or in any
other way, are you enabled to tell anything about your proximity to
n ship?
Mr. Cottam. To another ship ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cottam. Provided I know what sj^stem he is fitted with and
what power his plant is, and the time of day, I can tell roughly how
far ho is oflF — 150 or 200 or up to 300 miles off.
Senator Smith. You heard Bride, the Titanic^s operator, testify
in New York, did you not?
Mr. Cottam. Yes ; I heard most of him.
Senator Smith. After he was rescued and came aboard the Car-
pathia he relieved vou, as I imderstand, for awhile and helped you
a little in your worlc?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Notwithstanding his feet were injured and his
back was injured. You were very weary and tired and fell asleep
there in the performance of j^our duty, did you not ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And Bride took it up and helped you ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. Bride say that the strength of
the call or the message — am I stating that correctly, Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. Bride sav that the strength
of the call or the message that night impresse(\ him with the fact
that the ship from which that message came was nearer to him than
the Carpathia?
Mr. Cottam. I remember him saying that.
Senat<)r Smith. Is there any way by which an operator can tell
the proximity of a ship or coast station, by reason of the impact —
the strength of the impact?
(( . ^ ^ 99
TITANIC DISASTBB. 499
Mr. CoTTAM. Not after dark, sir.
Senator Smith. Is there in the daytime?
Mr. CoTTAM. To a certain extent there is, provided you know what
system he is fitted with.
Senator Smith. Suppose you do not know anything about it, and
you just get the impact?
Mr. Cottam. Then you can not tell.
Senator Smith. You can not tell, then?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. The Mowat Temple was equipped with wireless,
of course?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. You got a message from it — a " good-night " mes-
sage— about half past 10 Sunday evening?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. How long was Bride on duty on the Carpathia
after the Titanic went down?
Mr. Cottam. He took the telephones occasionally. He took the
short watch occasionally on the way to New York.
Senator Smith. Did you yourself receive a wireless from the
Chester?
Mr. Cottam. I received more than one.
Senator Smith. From the Chester?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During Monday?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know whether it was Monday or Tuesday.
I can not remember that; I can not remember anything about the
days at all.
Senator Smith. What did the Chester ask for, if you remember?
Mr. Cottam. It was asking for a list of the passengers and crew.
Senator Smith. What did you say in reply?
Mr. Cottam. I delivered the message to the captain, of course.
Senator Smith. What did the captain say?
Mr. Cottam. He replied some time afterwards.
Senator Smith. Beplied with the list?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not with the list. I think the purport of the
message was to the effect that he had already given the crew and the
first and second class passengers to shore, and had only the third-
class passengers to go.
Senator Smith. Do vou mean he had sent these names ashore?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. In answei; to the inquiry?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. That he only had the third-class passengers'
names yet to send off?
Mr. Cottam. Yes. He said he could have them if he liked.
Senator Smith. You did not tell the captain this message was
from the President of the United States ?
Mr. Cottam. I did not know who it was from. It was not signed ;
that is, it was signed " Commander."
Senator Smith. You did not know who it was from and you did
not tell him who it was from ?
Mr. Cottam. It was signed at the bottom by the commander of the
Chester. "Decker," I think, was the name on the bottom.
500 TITANIC DISASTEK.
Senator Smith. Did you send off, in reply to that, the list of third-
class passengers?
Mr. CoTTAM. Not immediately.
Senator Smith. When did you?
Mr. CoTTAM. Sometime afterwards; perhaps an hour or a couple
of hours afterwards. I did not send them at all ; Bride sent them.
Senator Smith. You did not send them?
Mr. Cottam. No ; I did not send them.
Senator Smith. Bride sent them?
Mr. CoTTAM. Bride sent them.
Senator Smith. How did you pass your time on the way from the
scene of this calamity to New York ? Did you rest most of the time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. How did I pass my time ?
Senator Smith. Did you rest or work?
Mr. CoTTAM. It was hard work all the way.
Senator Smith. You did not get much sleep?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. What did the work consist of?
Mr. Cottam. It was all telegraph work.
Senator Smith. In receiving messages frequently?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you get any messages from the Salein?
Mr. Cottam. I never had the Salem,
Senator Smith. Did this heavy work continue right up to the
time of your arrival in New York?
Mr. Cottam. Right up to docking.
Senator Smith. Were you in communication with the office of your
company in New York the day of the landing?
Mr. CoTPAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or before that time?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any radiograms or wireless mes-
sages from Mr. Marconi?
Mr. Cottam. I did not.
Senator Smith. Or from anyone signing his name?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any wireless communications from
Mr. Sammis?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. Or from any one signing his name?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Or from Mr. Bottomley?
Mr. Cottam. No^r.
Senator Smith. Where were you at 8.12 p. m. the night the Car-
pathia landed in New York?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know, sir ; I might have been ashore. I do
not know what time she docked. I do not remember what time she
docked.
Senator Smith. Suppose she docked at 9.40?
Mr. Cottam. I should be aboard the ship.
Senator Smith. Were vou on duty until the boat arrived at New
York?
Mr. Cottam. I was until she docked at the dock; then I went on
the deck.
£4 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 501
Senator Smith. Then you were on duty at 8 p. in. that night?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know whether I was on duty at 8.12. I do
not remember. Bride had the phones right up to docking and right
after docking.
Senator Smith. What time did Bride have the phones ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Bride had the phones while I was having my dinner-
Senator Smith. What time did you have your dinner that night?
Mr. CoTTAM. It was about 7, I should say ; 7 to half past.
Senator Smith. After dinner did you go up to your station?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; I was in the station. I had my dinner in
the station. Bride had the phones all the time after that.
Senator Smith. Bride had the telephone some time
Mr. CioTTAM (interrupting). Up to docking; from my dinner time
up to docking.
Senator Smith. From the time you went to dinner
Mr. CoTTAM (interrupting). I had it in the room — in the operat-
ing room.
Senator Smith. You had your dinner in your room ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. And your room adjoined the apparatus?
Mr. Cottam. In the operating room.
Senator Smith. Both rooms are practically together ?
Mr. Cottam. They are all one room.
Senator Smith. And you enter from the operating room into your
room ?
Mr. Cottam. It is all one room.
Senator Smith. Without going out on the deck ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. You went to your dinner a little after 7?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. You took your dinner about 20 minutes after 7?
Mr. Cottam. It would be some time around there; I can't remem-
ber the time.
Senator Smith. From the time you took your dinner, or say for
any period during two hours prior to the landing of the ship, did
you have the telephones ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; from my dinner time I did not have the
telephones until we docked.
Senator Smith. And you did not take any message ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Bride was at the instrument, or had the appa*
ratus?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And he took the messages?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know of his taking a message to this
effect:
8.12 p. w.
Seagate to " Cabpathia " :
Say, old man. Marconi Co. taking jjood care of yon. Keep yonr month shot
and hold yonr storj'- It ia flxetl for yon so yon will pet big money. Now, please
do your best to clear.
Did you hear anything like that?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; I saw something like that. Bride took it.
502 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. Bride took it and you talked with him about it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you recall this message :
8.90 p. M.
Marconi to Opehatqrs "Cabpathia" and "Titanic":
Arranged for your exclusive story for doUars in four figures, Mr. Marconi
agreeing. Say nothing until you see me.
J. M. Sammib.
Where are you now?
O. P. R. "C."
Do you remember that?
Mr. Cottam. The first one I do not remember. I never saw or
heard anything about it.
Senator Smith. But this second one, this 8.30 one, which refers to
four figures, you do remember?
Mr. CoTTAM. Something about it ; yes.
Senator Smith. What do you remember about it?
Mr. CoTTAM. I remember JBride mentioning something about it.
Senator Smith. What did he say to you ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not just remember. I believe he read that mes-
sage out.
Senator Smith. And what was said ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say?
Mr. C!oTrAM. Well, T should imagine I acknowledged it. I do not
know what I did, further.
Senator Smith. Mr. Franklin, do you remember what time the
Capathia docked?
Mr. Franklin. At 9.30 o'clock.
Senator Smith. You talked that over with Mr. Bride?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember talking it over. I acknowledged it.
Senator Smith. You were not at the apparatus?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir ; I was only in the room for about two minutes.
Senator Smith. You acknowledged it to Mr. Bride?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And did not attempt to reply to it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smfth. By wireless?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You can not recall what Bride said to you or
what you said to him about it?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I had a message from the company asking
me to meet Mr. Marconi in the Strand Hotel and I was preparing to
get ashore as she touched, sir.
Senator Smith. But you got that information, and then you got
another message a little later?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know which came first.
Senator Smith. I will read this one to you. This is dated 9 p. m.,
from Seagate to CarpatKia operators :
Go to strand Hotel, 502 West Fourteenth Street, to meet Mr. Marconi.
Did you get that message ? It was signed " C."
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you arranged to do that?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
(t . ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 503
Senator Newlands. All this was within about an hour of your
docking, was it not?
Mr. CoTPAM. It was within less than that. We were getting into
the dock when the message came.
Senator Smith. I will read this. The date is 9.33 p. m., from
Seagate to Carpathia (personal to operator, Carpathia) :
Meet Mr. Marconi and Sammis at Strand Hotel, 502 West Fourteenth Street
Kefp your mouth shut.
Mabooni.
Did you get that telegram?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not remember which it was, sir. Apparently
you have two there.
Senator Smith. I have two; yes.
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know which one it was.
Senator Smith. Did you get one sim^ "Mr. Marconi?"
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember. Bride was writing it down, and
I looked over as he was taking it.
Senator Smith. Did he write down "Mr. Marconi?"
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he write down "Sammis?"
Mr. CoTi'AM. I do not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know the telegram came from Mr.
Sammis?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember anything about it. I remember
the message. I was running about the ship at the time.
Senator Smith. Did you keep your mouth shut in accordance with
that injunction?
Mr. Cottam. Certainly.
Senator Smith. And did not talk to anybody ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not during all the voyage, from the catas-
trophe up to the time of arriving in New York, I did not say any-
thing.
Senator Smith. And you did not send out a great deal did you ?
Mr. Cottam. No; I sent out nothing.
Senator Smith. Frequent requests were made for details, were
they not?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. But you sent out nothing?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Why?
Mr. CoTiAM. Because I had the passengers messages and official
traffic to get ofif before I could provide newspapers with news. That
was not tne most important thing to do
Senator Smith. Exactly; and I do not want you to infer that I
think it was.
Mr. Cottam. The captain told me to ignore all stations other than
those I was in communication with and could benefit by.
Senator Smith. And you say you had messages from passengers?
Mr. CoiTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. And for passengers?
Mr. Cottam. For passengers. I had a few ; yes.
Senator Smfth. Were you in communication with Cape Race
Station ?
Mr. Cottam. No sir.
504 '^ TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Wore von in communication with anv shore sta-
tion ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. With what station?
Mr. CoTFAM. Sagaponack, Siasconset, and Seagate. I had five
for Sable Island, and when I offered him about 250 he ignored me
altogether.
Senator Smith. Two hundred and fifty what?
Mr. Cottam. Two hundred and fifty inessages.
Senator Smith. And were you unable to work them off through
other stations ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I was in touch with no other station. Sable Island
is a long way out to sea.
Senator Smith. When vou left the Carpathia did you ffo to the
Strand Hotel?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Whom did you meet there?
Mr. Cottam. I met nobody.
Senator Smith. Did you meet Mr. Sammis?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Or Mr. Marconi?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. But you reported there and found no one?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Then what did you do?
Mr. Cottam. I walked about and waited.
Senator Smith. How long did you wait?
Mr. Cottam. An hour or an hour and a half.
Senator Smith. Did you see anybody? Did you see either of
these men or any other officer of the Marconi Co.?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou sav anvthine: to anybody about vour
storv ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Wiere you alone?
Mr. CoTiAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where did you leave Bride, aboard the ship?
Mr. Cottam. Yes. He was lying in the cabin. He was trying to
get some of the other passengers- messages off, but he was not much
good getting them off after the ship had docked.
Senator Smith. But he continued to try?
Mr. Cottam. He continued to try to attend to official traffic.
Senator Smith. You sold your story about this disaster to the
New York Times?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When did they print it?
Mr. Cottam. I don't know sir ; about midnight, I should think.
Senator Smith. On what night ?
Mr. Cottam. On the night of docking, Thursday night.
Senator Smith. With whom were these negotiations held?
Mr. Cottam. With one of the New York Times reporters.
Senator Smith. Whdii did he say to you?
Mr. Cottam. He told me I had permission to relate my story to
the Times.
(6 _, tt
TITANIC DISASTER. 505
Senator Smith. Did he tell you what he would give you for it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he "five vou for it?
Mr. CoTTAM. I have not got anything for it yet.
Senator Smith. You have received nothing?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator S^iith. Has anybody received anything for that story?
Mr. Cottam. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Have you been told you would receive anj^thing?
Mr. Cottam. I expect something, but I don't know what.
Senator Smith. You made no contract with him?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And no figures were mentioned ?
Mr. Cottam. Oh, figures were mentioned.
Senator Smith. What figures?
Mr. Cottam. The figures in the message.
Senator Smith. That said " four figures "?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many did they mention?
Mr. Cottam. Four.
Senator Smith. Not four naughts ? ^Vhat was the figures ?
Mr. Cottam. I beg your pardon?
Senator Smith. What was the figure?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know. I do not know what the figure^
were — four figures.
Senator Smith. In this conversation w^as any amount stated?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Either bv him or by vou ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou tell liim what vou wanted?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you what he was going to give you in
payment ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You just relied upon his generosity?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And upon this telegram that you received ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. That telegram from Mr. Sammis.
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Sammis received any
money from this paper?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen Mr. Sammis since that night?
Mr. Cottam. I did not see him that night.
Senator Smith. Have you seen him since you docked?
Mr. Cottam. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Where?
Mr. Cottam. At the inquiry in New York, at the Waldorf.
Senator Smith. Did you see him at any other place?
Mr. Cottam. No; I ao not remember. I may nave met him in
the street.
Senator Smith. Did you go to the Marconi offices?
Mr. Cotiam. Yes; I went there one afternoon.
606 TITANIC DISASTEIU
Senator Smith. In New York?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Whom did you see there?
Mr. Cotiam. One of the clerks.
Senator Smith. Nobody else?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you a report of that story that you gave to
the New York Times?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever had one?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see it ?
Mr. Cottam. I saw it in the paper.
Senator Smith. When?
Mr. Cottam. The following morning.
Senator Smith. Friday morning?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you have not a copy of that?
Mr. Cottam. I may have a copy somewhere. It may be in New
York. . I believe I have a copy somewhere, but I do not know where
it is exactly.
Senator Smith. How much of a story was it?
Mr. Cottam. I gave them only a short story. I gave them brief
notes, and the brief notes were copied out.
Senator Smith. Do you know how much Bride got ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. He has not told you ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Where did they see Bride, if you know? They
must have seen him at the boat.
Mr. Cottam. They must have seen him on the ship ; yes.
Senator Smith. And you were not present when he gave his story ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you do not know how much he got for it ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know that he got anything for it?
Mr. Cottam. I do not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. Have you heard that he got anything for it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you have had no talk with him about it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I notice in the wireless messages that are sent and
received the term " old man " is often used.
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is that a cipher or code term, or is it a term of
friendly endearment, or what is it?
Mr. Cottam. It is a term of friendly endearment
Senator Smith. As recognized among the wireless boys?
Mr. Cottam. Among all the wireless fellows.
Senator Smith. And it is used as a pleasantry?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you telephone Mr. Marconi for permission to
give out this story ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
it ^^^^^^^^ 9f
TITANIC ' DISA8TBB. 507
Senator Smith. Did you receive his consent ?
Mr. CoiTAK. Yes.
Senator Smith. And talked with him personally J
Mr. CoTTAM. On the phone.
Senator Smith. Over the phone ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, I would like to ask if you will en-
deavor to obtain for the committee the wireless message sent from
the Amerika on Sunday, supposedly received by the Titanic^ warning
the Titamc that there was ice ahead.
Mr. Mabgoni. Yes, I will endeavor to obtain it; or, if I can not
obtain the original, a certified copy.
Senator Smith. We want to mow, Mr. Marconi, the time it was
sent from the Amerika^ the latitude and longitude, and, if you can
trace it, the time it was received. I might say for your information
that this message was received here at the Hydrographic Office in
Washington at 10.51 p. m. April 14, and it came from the Amerika
via the Titanic and Cape Bace to Washington. It says :
S. S. "Amebika" via " Titanic " and Cape Race, N. F..
April U, 1912.
Hydbogbaphic Office,
Washington, D, C:
Amerika passed two large Icebergs In 41.27 N., 50.8 W., on the 14th of April.
K. N. U. T.
It should be " h," but on here it is " p, 10.51 p."
I understand, Mr. Marconi, that Mr. Boaz, of the Hamburg-
American Line, says that wireless messages are not under their con-
trol ; that official inquiir must be made of the post-office authorities
at Berlin, who control the wireless on German snips.
Mr. Marconi. I suppose that is a fact. I will do my best to ob-
tain these messa^s. At the same time I should say that it may take
us a considerabll time to get them. .
Senator Smpth. We will wait on you if you will use your usual
expedition. Mr. Marconi, if you think you will have difficulty in
obtaining that message, and would prefer to have us undertake it in
our own way, I will not burden you with the responsibility.
Mr. Marcx)ni. I shall be very glad to assist the committee in any
way. I think perhaps, through the German company, I may ble
able to get it.
Senator Smith. I wish you would think the matter over and con-
fer with us about it a little later. We shall try to cooperate in the
matter.
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, Mr. Cottam, how long have you been an
operator in the wireless telegraphy business?
Mr. CoTTAM. About three years.
Senator Smith. During which time you have been in various parts
of the world?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. I would like to ask whether, from your observa-
tion and experience, there is any rivalry or hatred among wireless
operators using the Marconi system against those who do not use the
Marconi system?
40475— PT 6—12 4
508 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. CoTTAM. There used to be a certain amount, before the Mar-
coni company amalgamated with the Telefunken. There used to
bo a certain amount of rivalry between the two — the Telefunken
system and the Marconi system.
Senator Smith. Is it not a fact that matters of vital importance
are often neglected because of that rivalry and hatred}
Mr. CoTTAM. No; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. You heard Mr. Bride testify in New York that
after the C. Q. D. call was sent from the TUamc^ 9Xid it was picked
up by the Frankfurt, the Frankfurt operator waited about 20 min-
utes before replying?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And then said, " What is the matter " ? *
Mr. Cottam. That isn't so.
Senator Smith. Whereupon Bride said to him, " You are a fool.
Keep out"?
Mr. Ck)TTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You heard Bride testify to that?
Mr. Cottam. Yes ; I heard it sent.
Senator Smith. From anything you know, was there any rivalry
between the operators on the Frankfurt^ under that system, and the
operator on the Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. There ought to be no rivalry. The C. Q. D.
call ought to be quite sufficient for any man who understands the
English language, or the German language, for that matter. The
C. Q. D. call is a universal call.
Senator Smith. The C. Q. D. call means the same in all lan-
guages, does it not ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes; no matter whether it is German, French, or
otherwise.
Senator Smith. It is a cipher warning of danger. It is a cry of
distress. The C. Q. D. is the universal wireless language of dis-
tress, is it not?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. It speaks in all languages?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. You say it was the duty of that operator to come,
and not to ask questions?
Mr. Cottam. Yes; not to hesitate. He ought not to have hesi-
tated a minute.
Senator Smith. The captain of the Garpaihia did not hesitate a
minute, did he ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is the Frankfurt equipped with the same ap-
paratus that the CarpatMa has, do you know ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember, sir. I do not remember whether
she is fitted with the Telefunken or whether she has the Marconi
system.
Senator Smith. Do you know, Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Marooni. I do not know. I know it is a ship with which we
work.
Senator Smith. With which you interchange?
Mr. Mabconi. Yes, sir.
(( ^«^. «-,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 509
Senator Smith. What about this Telefunken?
Mr. CoTTAM. That is a different system. The Telefunken and the
Marconi are different systems.
Senator Smith. You know of no hatred or rivalry that would
enter into such a situation as that?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir ; there ought not to be.
Senator Smith. You know of no such thing that delayed the
Frankfurt from going to the rescue of the Titanic f
Mr. CoTTAM. So, sir; there was not another sound other than
that single communication between the Frankfurt and the Titanic;
there was not another sound otherwise. He ought to have heard it
and read it.
Senator Smith. Let us see about that. There was the C. Q. D.
that you picked up ?
Mr. CoTiAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. And that was picked up on the Frankfurt f
Mr. Cottam. I do not know whether the same one was. I do not
suppose it was.
Senator Smith. The C. Q. D. was received and acknowledged;
then 20 minutes elapsed, and the operator asked the Titanic^ " What
IS the trouble?"
Mr. CJottam. Yes, sir; he came back with his position. He said,
'^ Here is our position. What is the matter? "
Senator Smith. He gave his position and said, "What is the
matter?"
Mr. CoTTAM. He did not give it ; he offered it.
Senator Smith. Did he ever give it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know whether he gave it or not, sir. I did
not hear it.
Senator Smith. Did you receive that message from the Frankfurt
to the Titanic on the Carpathiaf
Mr. CoTrAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did it say ?
Mr. CoTTAM. It simply asked what was the matter — ^what did he
want to exchange positions for at that time of night — and wanted
to know what was the matter.
Senator Smith. The Frankfurt wanted to know what was the
matter, and did not give his position ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember whether he gave it or not ; I did
not hear it.
Senator Smith. Would you have heard it if it had been given?
You heard the balance of the message?
Mr. Cottam. Certainly. I heard all the communications with the
Titanic,
Senator Smith. You heard all the communications with the
Titanicf
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. From what ships?
Mr. Cottam. From the ships that were in communication with the
Titamc.
Senator Smith. What were they?
Mr. Cottam. There were the Ofym^pic and the FranJcfwrt. Satis-
factory communication was not established with the Baltic at all.
510 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. But satisfactory communication was established
with the Olympic and the FramJcfurtt
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whether the Olympic gave her
position ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir ; she gave it.
Senator Smith. Do you remember what it was?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir ; I did not take it.
Senator Smith. You are positive the Frankfurt did not give her
position ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I am not positive — absolutely positive. I can not
remember. I did not take much notice of it. I was helping the
Titanic.
Senator Smith. Under the regulations of the Berlin convention
the Frankfurt was obliged to give her position, was she not, upon
receipt of this C. Q. D. call?
Mr. Cottam. If he had used any common sense he would have
done it
Senator Smith. How is that, Mr. Marconi?
Mr. Marconi. They are obliged to give the best assistance possible.
I suppose that would include that
Senator Smith. What I am trying to ascertain is this: The C.
Q. D. call of distress goes out That is the most alarming call that
can be recorded over a wireless instrument?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It is as significant, as I understand it, as a red
light would be in front of a moving express train?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. A warning and a call both ?
Mr. Marconl Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What I would like to get at is this: Whether it
is the duty of any ship whose country is a party to the Berlin con-
vention to respond to that call, and whether when that response is
made the ship^s position is given as a part of the regulations. Do
you see my point?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. If the Frwnkfurt was 500 miles away and the
ship's position was known to the captain of the T'i^amV, and the Car-
pathia was 50 miles away, and the ship's position was known to the
Titanic^ then the operator of the Titanic might very appropriately
say to the operator of the Frarikfurt^ " Keep out" Do you see my
point ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. I want to know whether that is covered by the
reflations ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not recall that the regulations specify that the
positions should be given of the ships which are called, but it does
specify that they have to do everythmg in their power to assist, and
1 presume that includes what you have stated. It is several months
since I have read the regulations of the Berlin convention.
Senator Smith. At least, if they had known that the Frankfurt
was within 50 miles they would have taken some comfort from the
fact that they were not 500 miles off?
ft ..^^.^^-.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 511
Mr. Marconi. Certainly ; it would have been of the greatest utility.
I should also state that any ship of any country, even of a country
which is not a party to the Berlin convention, would reply to that
call, and would be moraUv bound to reply to that call.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, you say you said "Good night" to
the Mount Temple operator? Inat is^ at about half past 10 Thurs-
day night you said " Good night " to him ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But I have forgotten whether you said that the
Mount Temple gave you her position at any time.
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember whether she did or not.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whether the Mornit Temple re-
plied to the C. Q. D. call of the Titanic that night?
Mr. Cottam. I do not think so. I did not hear her.
Senator Smith. The captain says they did. The captain says the
Mount Temple replied to the C. Q. D. call of the Titardc.
Mr. Cottam. I neard nothing from the Mount Temple.
Senator Smith. What I am getting at is whether you picked up
any message from the Mount Temple that night in addition to these
other ships' messages that you have spoken of.
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. If the Mount Temple had replied, I would
have been bound to have heard it, because there was not a sound in
the air, and this communication of the Titanic was 'all that was
going.
Senator Smith. When you got this message from the Titanic the
Carvathia was about 58 miles from the Titardc* s position?
Mr. CorrAM. Yes, sir; about 58 or 60 miles.
Senator Smith. Why did the operator of the Titanic tell this
other operator he was a fool and to keep out? Was it because he
had not responded?
Mr. Cottam. Because if he had not done it he would have been
a nuisance, as we were in good satisfactory communication, and as
he could not get satisfactory communication with the Frankfurt he
tried elsewhere then.
Senator Smith. What would you have told him if you had been
the operator on the Titanic?
Mr. Cottam. I should have told him the same.
Senator Smith. Begardless of whether he was a Marconi operator
or a Grerman independent operator?
Mr. CooTAM. It does not matter what system. I don't care. When
a man takes 20 minutes to answer in a case like that, when two hours
is between life and death, it is about the only fit thing you can call
him.
Senator Smith. Do jou not think it would have been just as well,
not knowing the position of the Frankfurt^ for the operator on the
Titanic to have said " We are sinking " ? It would not have taken
any more words to say that than it did to say " You are a fool."
Mr. Cottam. C. Q. D. is sent out with the position. When a man
sends his position and C. Q. D. the first thin^ to do is to turn right
around and steer for that position. The position of the Frankfurt
to the Titanic did not matter at all.
Senator Smith. I know, but I would like to impress you with the
seriousness of becoming flippant or discourteous in such an emer-
512 TITANIC DISASTER.
gency as that. I am a little sorry to hear you say you would have
made the same answer.
Mr. CoTTAM. Certainly I should under the same circumstances,
because we were trying to get the Olympic^ and we were trying to
work the Olympic at that time. The Olympic was sending a mes-
sage when he came in with " What is the matter? "
Senator Smith. You know that is a pretty big responsibility for
you to exercise, not knowing the ship's position. As a matter of fact,
suppose it should turn out that the Frankfurt was nearer than the
CarpatMa to the TitarUc and that that answer of the wireless oper-
ator prevented the Frankfurt or discouraged the Frarikfurt from
coming to the Titanic when that ship might have arrived an hour
or longer before the Carpathiat
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not think she was nearer. I do not think she
was nearer than the Carpai^hia,
Senator Smith. You do not know anything about that?
Mr. CoTTAM. Only by the strength of the signals ; that is all.
Senator Smith. That is all you Know about it?
Mr. Cottam. That is all ; sir.
Senator Smith. My information does not agree with yours. The
Carpathia had but one operator on this journey?
Mr. CoTTAM. That is all.
Senator Newlands. While this conversation was going on between
the TitarUc and the Olympic and the Carpathia and the Frankfurt^
could the Fravkfwrt have heard all these messages?
Mr. CoTTAM. Certainly.
Senator Newlands. It could ?
Mr. CloTTAM. Yes. If she heard the first message from the ship,
she ought to have heard all the communications from all the others.
Apparently, she was not on watch.
Senator Newlands. So it was not necessary to apprise her of all
the details ?
Mr. CioTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. She could get direct details just as the other
vessels to whom they were specially directed would receive them?
Mr. CoTiAM. Yes, sir. I got the message, and she ought to have
done so, as apparently she was closer. Apparently she was closer,
and she ought to have had it if I got it.
Senator Newlands. When the /^ranA/wrf« operator broke in at that
time with that inquiry that you have regarded as unnecessary, that
breaking in was interfering with the messages that the Titanic was
giving, was it not?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; and interfering
Senator Newlands (interposing). That made the operator impa-
tient?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Regarding this interference?
Mr. CkwrTAM. That is so.
Senator Newlands. You and Bride received these marconigrams
regarding the press story within half an hour of your docking?
Mr. CoTTAM. I believe one or two of them were received aiter we
had docked.
Senator Newlands. After you had docked?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
(( .«»^.^««^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTER. 518
Senator Newlands. Then all the survivors of the disaster were
accessible to the newspaper men?
Mr. CoTTAM. Lots of them got ashore before I got ashore.
Senator Newlands. You say you waited at the Strand Hotel?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Newlands. For about an hour and a half ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the reporter of the Times there?
Mr. CoTTAM. That is where I met the reporter of the Times.
Senator Newtlands. You had to wait some time before you saw^
him?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Newlands. What was his name?
Mr. CoTTAM. I don't remember.
Senator Newlands. You refused to communicate with him, then,
until you got permission?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Newlands. During the time the survivors of the Titanic
were on the Carpathia were your hands full of business?
Mr. CoTTAM. 1 es.
Senator Newlands. You had many messages to send, both on be-
half of the ship and on behalf of tne passengers on the ship, had
you not?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. That prevented you from attending to a great
maiiy inquiries that were made?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir. We got the inquiries on one side and could
not attend to them.
Senator Newlands. You could not attend to them?
Mr. CorrAM. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were you able to dispatch all the messages
'which you received on board the Carpathia irom the survivors and
others on the ship ?
Mr. CoTTAM. The survivors' messages? They handed messages
in to me, you mean ?
Senator Newlands. Yes.
Mr. CoTTAM. No; I did not get them all off.
Senator Newlands. You were not able to get them all off?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. You were busy, were you ?
Mr. CoiTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you not have sufficient time, or was it be-
cause of lack of sufficient connections ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No; I had not sufficient time; I could not do an im-
possibility. It was practically an impossibility to get them off.
Senator SMrrn. Mr. Cottam, did you hear the testimony of Mr,
Soxhall, on the Titanic^ the offioer who said he fired the rockets ?
Mp. CtoTTAM. No^r ; I did not.
Senator SnrrH. The night of the collision ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; 1 did not hear that.
Senator Smith. And who said he tested out the Morse signals of
distress and that he saw the lights of a boat ahead of him about 5
miles?
Mr. Cottam. I saw it in the paper, where a boat had been seen.
614 TITANIC " DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. You did not hear him swear?
Mr. CoTTAM. No^r.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Mr. LightoUer, the second officer of
the Titame^ say that he saw lights ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; I was only in here yesterday for about 5 or
10 minutes.
Senator Smith. Suppose a boat in the vicinity of the Titanic^ or any
other boat on which you were an operator, replied to the C. Q. D. call
after a lapse of 20 minutes and said, "What is the matter? " Do
you wish us to understand that your reply would be to that kind of
an inquiry, " You are a fool " ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I should, under the circumstances, or I should have
ignored him altogether.
Senator Smith. Suppose you ignored him altogether and did not
answer his second inquiry as to what was' the matter? Let me lust
call your attention to the situation : Suppose this boat that Boxnall
and LightoUer and others seem to have seen ahead of the Titanic
had replied, after a C. Q. D. had been received, " What is the mat-
ter? " and that you had ignored them altogether?
Mr. CoTTAM. I should not ^ve up a certainty for an uncertainty
when I was working the certainty.
Senator Smith. Hold on until I get through. Suppose you had
ignored them altogether and told the operator he was a tool, and sup-
pose it had turned out that that ship you were talking with could have
reached the side of the Titanic and saved those 1,400 lives; do you
not think your curt dismissal of the second inquiry would be a pfetty
biff responsibility for you to assume?
Mr. CoTTAM. I^erhaps it would; but if a man was making a nui-
sance of himself — ^if he had been a nuisance in the case, as you say,
and he could not have got that C. Q. D. from the Titanic with the
insulation he had, the best insulation in a merchant ship, he did not
deserve to go to sea as an operator.
Senator Smith. All right. Let us go a little further than that.
Suppose this ship that was just ahead of the Titanic^ the Mount
Temple^ and was in sight of its officers from its deck, was itself stuck
in a field of ice and could not at that moment move, would that
change your view of your duty?
Mr. OxTTAM. You mean in sight of the Titanic f I do not under-
stand it. I do not understand the question.
The question was repeated by the stenographer as above recorded.
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not understand the question.
Senator Smith. Well, if the help which was called for, and was
within easy reach of the ship that was sinking, was itself struggling
with the ice and quite busy and could not respond to the C. Q- D.
call as promptly as you might think it ought to do, do you not think
it would be desirable to, explain to them the circumstances under
which the message for help was sent?
Mr. CoTTAM. The operator on the ship has no duties on the bridge
to perform, with regard to keeping a lookout or anything like that.
His duty in a case of that description is to keep a constant watch
Senator Smith. Wait a minute, now. Suppose that this ship was
stuck in the ice herself and he was taking business for his captain.
Mr. CoTTAM. I know he was not, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you know he was not?
i( .»».^^^ f>
TITANIC DISASTEB. 515
Mr. CkxTTAM. Because, as I say, when the communication with the
Titanic was going on there was not a sound otherwise.
Senator SMrfti. But you were passing from your room to the deck
delivering these messages, along about half past 10 Sunday night ?
Mr. CoTTAM. About 5 minutes
Senator Smith. Suppose that during the time you were tempo-
rarily absent from your apparatus a call had gone out from the
Mownt Temple that they were in the ice, and having a little diffi-
culty, you would have missed it?
Mr. CoTTAM. If I had not been in the room, certainly I would
have missed it
Senator Smith. And therefore you would not know all that was
taking place; and when you came back you might get the second
message instead of the first one. And, as a matter ot fact, the only
one you did get was the ^od-night message from the Mount Temple.
lAr. CoTTAM. That is right, sir. That was at 10.40 o'clock.
Senator Smith. I want to get into your mind the fact that there
are people who were on the MowrU Temple who say they saw the lights
of the Titanic when it went down, and there are people who were on
the Titanic who say they saw the lights of a boat ahead when the
Titanic was sinking, arid in that situation it is no time to be flippant
or discourteous, in such a responsible position as you held.
Mr. CoTTAM. I was not flippant. Nobody was flippant with the
Mount Temple. The Mount Temple was off watch.
Senator SMrrn. I understand that; you were not discourteous to
the Mount Temple. But you say you would have made the same
answer to the Mount Tem/ple that you made to the Frankfurt if the
Mownt Temple had asked the question the Frankfurt asked.
I do not think I will pursuie this any further. The only purpose
I have is to call the attention of the wireless people to the necessity
for some regulation which will insist that even a second call is
entitled to respectful reply.
I think that is all for the present. You may step aside ; but hold
yourself subject to the committee's call. We will take a recess
until 3.30 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 2.10 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until
3.30 o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to the taking of the adjournment,
at 3.30 o'clock p. m.. Senator William Alden Smith (chairman) pre-
siding.
ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY OF OXTOUELHO MAKCONL
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, I would like to ask you one ques-
tion. In my examination this morning I failed to ask you spe-
cifically whether between the date of the collision, Sunday evening.
April 14, and the present time, any officer, director, or employee or
the White Star Line, or of the International Mercantile Marine Co.,
had requested you or anyone associated with you, to your knowl-
edge, to delay any message, or send any silence message, or message
616 TITANIC DISASTER.
enjoining silence on the part of the Titanic^ 8 operator, Biride, or the
Carpathians operator, Cottam, with reference to the time and man-
ner in which and to which the Titanic accident was in any way
related ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I am absolutely certain that I have received no
such request.
Senator Smith. Or any officer or employee of your company,
within your knowledge?
Mr. Marconi. Yes. You may add those as part of my answer.
Senator Smith. And this answer refers to your operators, and the
managers of your company, or the officers oi your company, in any
part of the world ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes ; of course, in so far as I know.
Senator Smith. Exactly. The silence signal which I refer to is
one recognized in wireless telegraphy, is it not?
Mr. Marconi. No.
Senator Smith. Then I will add the words "any injunction of
secrecy " ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I understand. No; no request whatever has
been received, and no instructions were given, to limit or control
or suppress or stop any message which the operator or the operators
may nave thought fit to send to anyone.
Senator Smith. Did this include any special directions regarding
the transmission of messages?
Mr. Marconi. No instructions whatever were given so far as I
know. Instructions were given in every way or manner which it was
thought would expedite or facilitate communication.
Senator Smith. That is all. I would like to ask the sergeant at
arms if the witness Luis Klein, who was subpoenaed and Drought
here by the marshal's office of Cleveland, is here; and tell him, if
he is here, we are ready to use him.
Mr. Cornelius. He is not here. Senator.
Senator Smith. Where is he?
Mr. Cornelius. He left his hotel yesterday morning. We do
not know where he is. We have been unable to locate him.
Senator Smith. Have you made every endeavor to locate him ?
Mr. Cornelius. Through our officers here; yes, sir — ^through the
marshal's office here.
Senator Smith. Through the marshal's office of the District of
Columbia.
Mr. Cornelius. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you have not been able to do so?
Mr. Cornelius. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you continuing your efforts ?
Mr. Cornelius. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You may continue your efforts to find him, and
if you can find him, it is the wish of the committee that you should
do so. *
I desire to say that some rumors have reached the committee that
there is friction and lack of harmony among the members of the sub-
committee, and I have the concurrence of all my associates in saying
that that statement is absolutely untrue. No foundation whatever
exists for it. Personally, I have never heard of the slightest friction.
We are all proceeding together in our own way to get at the results
i( -,,-,. ^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 617
for which we have been convened, and while the absence of some of
my colleagues from some of the hearings might have been noticed,
I want the record to show that they have been performing a public
duty in the Committee on Commerce, which is now finally acting
upon a veiT important bill over which that committee has jurisdic-
tion, and tneir absence must not be noted as due to the slightest in-
disposition upon their part to take active and constant part in these
proceedings.
I desire to say, further, that after full conference we have deter-
mined to hear the members of the crew of the Titanic who have been
summoned, aside from the officers who have already been sworn, and
that it has been thought necessary, because of the large number of
these men, to proceed with the hearing this afternoon without the
attendance of the public, each member of the subcommittee examin-
ing his proportion or quota of these men. That does not mean that
the men will not be examined here. It means only that we must
simplify that branch of the work, and my associates feel that it can
be done more expeditiously and with equal certainty if this course is
taken, and with that announcement the subcommittee will take a
recess until to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 4.15 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned until
to-morrow, Friday, April 26, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
X
" TTT.AJISrxa " IDIS.A.STER
^ ^ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
r
S. jtES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OP THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 7
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WA8BINGT0N
QOVERyMEKT PRnfTING OFVIOE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
United Statbs Sbkatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Mlohigan, Chairman.
OEORQE C. PERKINS, Califomia. F. M. SIMMONB, North CardOtia.
JONATHAN BOUBNE, Jb., Ongon. FRANCIS G. NEWLANBS. Nevada.
THEODORE K BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Flortdft.
W. M. McKontBT, Cierk.
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Page.
A ndrewB, C. B 622
Archer, Ernest 643
Brice, W 648
Buley, Edward John 603
Clench, Frederick 634
CoUiM, John 627
Crowe, George Frederick 613
Hardy, John 587
Hogg, G. A 577
Jones, Thomas 566
Moore, George 559
OUiver, Alfred 526
Osnifui, Frank 537
Perlda, Walter John 580
Rowe, George Thomas 519
Symons, G 573
Taylor, W.H 550
Ward, William 595
Wheelton, Edward 543
Widgery, James 601
ni
I
** TITANIC' DIBASTBR,
TSUBBDAY, APBZL 90, 1019.
suboommittee ot the committee on commebge,
United States Senate,
Washington, D. C.
After the adjournment of the subconunittee at 4.15 o'clock p. m.
on this day, the following testimony was taken before Senators Smith,
Burton, rerkins, Fletcher, and Bourne, each sitting separately and
apart from the others.
TESTIMOirT OF MB. OEOSGE THOKAS BOWB.
[Testimony taken aeparately before Senator Burton on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Senator Burton. What is your name.
Mr. RowE. George Thomas Rowe.
Senator Burton. How old are you ?
Mr. Rowe. Thirty-two.
Senator Burton. How long have you sailed I
Mr. Rowe. In the merchant service 2 years; previous to that, 14
years in the Navy.
Senator Burton. Where were you the night of the collision !
Mr. Rowe. I felt a slight jar and I lookea at my watch. It was a
fine night, and it was then 20 minutes to 12. I looked toward the
starboard side of the ship and saw a mass of ice. I then remained on
the after bridge to await orders through, the telephone. No orders
came down, and I remained until 25 minutes past 12, when I saw a
boat on the starboard beam.
Senator Burton. What was the number of the boat ?
Mr. Rowe. You could not tell the number. I telephoned to the
fore bridge to know if they knew there was a boat lowered. They
replied, asking me if I was the third officer. I replied, ^'No; I am the
(juartermaster." They told me to bring over detonators, which are
used in firing distress signals.
Senator Burton. What next happened ?
Mr. Rowe. I took them to the forebridge and turned them over to
the fourth officer. I assisted the officer to fire them, and was firing
the distress signals until about five and twenty minutes past 1. At
that time they were getting out the starboard collapsible boats. The
chief officer, Wilde, wanted a sailor. I asked Capt. Smith if I should
fire any more, and he said "No; get into that boat." I went to the
boat. Women and children were being passed in. I assisted six.
three women and three children. The oraer was then given to lower
the boat. The chief officer wanted to know if there were more women
519
tt ..».^.^**^ yf
520 TITANIC 0ISABTBB.
and children. There were none in the vicinity. Two gentlemen pas-
sengers got in; the boat was then lowered. When we reached the
water we steered for a light in sight; roughly 5 miles. We pulled
away for about three-quarters of a inile, when the ship sank. We
gulled through the nighty but seemed to get no nearer to the lights,
o we altered our course back to a boat that was canyin^ a green
light. During that time daylight broke and the Carpathxa was in
sight.
Senator Burton. There was nothing special about your getting on
the Carpathiaf
Mr. RowE. No, sir. In the meantime I found that one of the two
gentlemen was Mr. Ismav. I don't know who the other was. Thirty-
nine in the boat, all told.
Senator Burton. You say there were 39 passengers in the boat ?
Mr. RowE. Not all passengers, sir; 39 all told.
Senator Burton. How many of those were crew or sailors?
Mr. RowE. Myself was the only sailor, three firemen, and one
steward.
Senator Burton. You had no trouble in managing the boat?
Mr. RowE. Not a bit.
Senator Burton. The passengers, aside from you sailors, were all
women and children ?
Mr. RowE. Except Mr. Ismay and another gentleman. When da3''-
Iip:ht broke, we found four men. Chinamen, I think they were, or
Filipinos.
Senator Burton. Were those additional to the 39 ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. All the rest of the 39 were women and children,
except two, Mr. Ismay and another gentleman ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. When day broke, you found four Chinamen or
Filipinos under the seats ?
Mr. RowE. Not under the seats then, sir. They came up between
the seats. Ours was about the ninth boat which was unloaded upon
the Carpaihia, The night was very cold; but those who were in tho
boat were very weU wrapped up and did not suffer.
Senator Burton. Now, tell us the circumstances under which Mr.
Ismay and that other gentleman cot in the boat ?
Mr. RowE. When Chief OflBcer Wilde asked if there was any more
women and children there was no reply. So Mr. Ismay came aboard
the boat.
Senator Burton. Mr. Wilde asked were there any more women an<i
children. Can you say there were none ?
Mr. RowE. I could not see; but there were none forthcoming.
Senator Burton. You could see around there on the deck, couKl
you not ?
Mr. RowE. I could see the fireman and steward that completed the
boat's crew, but as regards any females I could not see any.
Senator Burton. Were there any men passengers besides Mr. Ismay
and the other man ?
Mr. RowE. I did not see anv, sir.
Senator Burton. Was it lignt enough so that you could see anyone
near by ?
Mr. KowE. Yes, sir.
ii .— »...*«^ ff
TITANIC DI8A6TEB. 521
Senator Burton. If I understand, there were firemen and stokers
around in that neighborhood ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. But no women or children ?
Mr. RowE. No women or children, sir.
Senator Burton. And, so far as you could see, no other passengers
except Mr. Ismay and this other gentleman ?
Mr. RowE. Yes.
Senator Burton. Did you know Mr. Ismay at the time ?
Mr. RowE. I did know him, sir, because I had seen the gentleman
before.
Senator Burton. In going along on the water, did he give any
directions?
Mr. RowE. I was in charge of the boat.
Senator Burton. You were in entire charge of the boat ?
Mr. RowE. Absolute, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see any ice when on the watch ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; only when we struck, when we passed it on
the starboard side.
Senator Burton. About how high was that iceberg ?
Mr. RowE. Roughly, 100 feet, su*.
Senator Burton. Was there anything distinctive about the color
of that icebei^ ?
Mr. RowE. Not a bit, sir; just like ordinary ice.
Senator Burton. You saw it as it was brushing by ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir. It was very close to the ship, almost touch-
ing it.
Senator Burton. You do not know about how many compart-
ments were opened up ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; because I never left the afterpart of this boat.
Senator Burton. Did you see Mr. Ismay and Mr. Carter get in the
boat?
Mr. RowE. I saw the gentlemen get in; yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you hear anyone ask them to get in ?
\fr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. How were you occupied at the time they got in ?
Mr. RowE. I was occupied in attending the afterfall, sir.
Senator Burton. Were you watching Chief Officer Wilde ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see him speak to them ?
Mr. RowB. No, sir.
Senator Burton. If he had spoken to them would you have known it t
Mr. RowE. I think so, because they got in the afterpart of the
boat.
Senator Burton. And you were in the afterpart of the boat ?
Mr. RowE. I was in the afterpart; yes.
Senator Burton. Was the helm over when you passed the iceberg ?
Mr. RowE. That I could not say.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any order to abandon the ship, or
an vthing like that ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any general alarm ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you hear the sirens?
522 • TITAKKJ ©ISASnEE.
Mr. RowE. No sirens, sir; but there was an awful noise made by
the escape of steam.
Senator Burton. Was that noise below or up at the escape pipe ?
Mr. RowE. At the exhaust pipe.
Senator Burton. Were there any detonators or other signals kept
aft?
Mr. RowE. The detonators, such as the distress signal rockets,
green hghts, and blue lights.
Senator Burton. Were there any kept forward ?
Mr. RowE. Yes; on the fore briage.
Senator Burton. On the after bridge, too ?
Mr. RowE. Not on the after bridge. There was a private locker
aft.
Senator Burton. Were vou at any time on any other deck aside
from the top or bridge deck ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; not after 8 o'clock.
Senator Burton. Was there any panic that you saw?
Mr. RowE. Not a bit.
Senator Burton. Might not a number of persons have been on the
lower decks ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir; undoubtedly.
Senator Burton. There were no staterooms on the top deck, were
there ?
Mr. RowE. That I could not say.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any sign or hear any indication of
of an alarm to call the passengers ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Just where were you when you saw the iceberg ?
Mr. RowE. On the poop, sir; underneath the after bridge.
Senator Burton. You were located practically right on the stern
of the boat ?
Mr. RowE. Right on the stem, sir; the poop.
Senator Burton. And the iceberg, when the boat rubbed against
it, was right near, was it ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. How far, would you sajr?
Mr. RowE. It was so near that I thought it was going to strike the
bridge.
* Senator Burton. Did it strike the bridge ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; never.
Senator Burton. Only 10 or 20 feet away?
Mr. RowE. Not that far, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you notice the iceberg when the boat got
clear of it ?
Mr. RowE. Xo, sir; I went on the bridge then, to stand by the
telephone.
Senator Burton. Could you hear the ice scraping along on the boat
where you were ?
Mr. KOWB. No, sir.
Senator Burton. So you do not know whether it was rubbing against
the hull there or not ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. What is your best judgement about that?
Mr. RowE. I do not think It was.
<i ..»^. • ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 523
Senator Burton. You are positive you heard no rubbing !
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator BtrRTON. Do you not think that if the helm had been hard
astarboard the stem would have been up against the bei^?
Mr. RowB. It stands to reason it would, sir, if the helm were hard
astarboard.
Senator Burton. Were you able to form any judgment as to how
lone that berg was ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. How near were you to the starboard side of the
boat when you first noticed it rubbing ?
Mr. RowE. About 8 or 10 feet. I went to the side.
Senator Burton. Did you go immediately to the side ?
Mr. RowE. Y-es, sir.
Senator Burton. What were your duties as quartermaster aft?
Mr. RowE. My duties were to attend the log and night signals by
night, lo^ng ensign by day, and to look out for any accidents, a man
man overooard or something like that.
Senator Burton. Were you also to keep track of vessels that might
be coming up on the side ?
Mr. RowE. Oh, yes, sir; but that is very seldom the case that
any tiling like that happens.
Senator Burton. Were you reading the log that night ?
ifr. RowE. As soon as tne berg was gone I looked at the log and
it read 260 miles. The log was reset at noon. I had charge of the
taffrail log, which was a Neptune log.
Senator Burton. You read the log each hour, did you not %
Mr. RowE. Every two hours. I read it at 10 o'clock, but I do
not remember what it was, now, sir.
Senator Burton. Do you remember what speed she was making,
or did you make any computation ?
Mr. KowE. No, sir. We read the log every two hours, and it is
telephoned to the bridge and entered in the quartermaster's log
book. It is taken from there every watch and put into the ship's
log.
Senator Burton. How soon after she struck was it before she
started to tilt or go down by the head ? She did not list, did she ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; not at that time, I don't think.
Senator Burton. Did she at any time list over to starboard or
port ?
Mr. RowE. She did not list, so far as I know, until the time when
my boat was lowered. Then she listed to port. She listed about 5
or 6 degrees.
Senator Burton. To port ?
Mr, RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What side was your boat on ?
Mr. RowE. The starboard side, sir. All the time my boat was be-
ing lowered the rubbing strake kept on catching on the rivets down
the ship's side, and it was. as much as we could do to keep her oif.
Senator Burton. What was the beam of your boat ?
Mr. RowE. I could not say.
Senator Burton. Would it have more beam than a lifeboat ?
Mr. RowE. It had more beam than what they call the emergency
boat.
<( . ^,,^ 9>
524 TITANIC DISA8TEB.
Senator Burton. But not any more than a lifeboat ?
Mr. RowE. No.
Senator Burton. You are sure you rubbed going down ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Was the Titanic down by the head ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir. When we left the ship the fore well deck was
awash; that is, when we pushed oJ from the ship. It was 1.25 when
I left the bridge to get into the boat. When the boat was in the
water the well deck was submerged. It took us a good five minutes
to lower the boat on account of this rubbing going down.
Senator Burton. She must have sunk soon after you left ?
Mr. RowE. Twenty minutes, I believe.
Senator Burton. Did any boats get away after yours ?
Mr. RowE. One boat got away after mine, on the port side.
Senator Bubton. How long id the rubbing or grinding against
the ice last i
Mr. RowE. I never heard anything except the first contact; the
first jar was all I knew about it. I never heard any rubbing at all.
Senator Burton. Do you think the propeller hit the ice ? Did you
feel any jolt like the propeller hitting the ice ?
Mr. KowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Do you not think the propeller would have hit
the ice if the helm had been turned hard a starboard ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any revolver shots ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see the light of a boat, or anything of
that kind?
Mr. RowE. I saw the light; that was the light we were pulling for
when we left the ship.
Senator Burton. What do you conclude that light was ?
Mr. RowE. A sailing ship.
Senator Burton, miat sort of light was it?
Mr. RowE. A white light.
Senator Burton. Did you get any nearer to it?
Mr. RowE. We did not seem to get nearer to it.
Senator Burton. What did you conclude about it?
Mr. RowE. We kept on pulling for it, because it was the only
stationary light.
Senator Burton. Do you think there was a sailing boat there ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. And was she goin^ away from you ?
Mr. RowE. Toward daylight the wind sprung up and she sort of
hauled off from us.
Senator Burton. Did you see her?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see any side lights ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir. I think there was a ship there. Indeed, I
am sure of it, and that she was a sailer.
Senator Burton. The light you saw was a white light ?
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What did you judge it to be, a stem light ?
Mr. RowE. I judged it to be a stern light; yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see this light before the ship struck ?
(( ^,^.— « 9f
TITANIC WSABTER. 525
Mr. RowE. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What was its bearing with regard to the Titanic,
forward or aft?
Mr. RowE. Right forward, sir.
Senator Burton. Dead ahead?
Mr. RowE. Not dead ahead, but just a Uttle on the port bow.
Senator Burton. That was before the ship struck ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir; because I was never on the bridge until after
the ship struck..
Senator Burton. You did not see it when you were aft ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. But you say you did see her before ever the ship
struck ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. You did not mean to say you saw her before the
ship struck?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. When did you first see her ?
Mr. RowE. When I was on tne bridge firing the rockets. I saw it
myself, and I worked the Morse lamp at the port side of the ship to
draw her attention.
Senator Burton. Do you know whether the water-tight doors were
closed or not ?
Mr. RowE. I could not say.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any signal for the doors to close ?
Mr. RowE. No.
Senator Burton. You had a signal on the ship to ring bells before
t!ie doors closed, did you not ?
Mr. RowE. I could not hear that on the poop.
Senator Burton. You could not hear the tliree gongs for ''dead
ahead" on the poop, could you ?
Mr. RowE. No.
Senator Burton, Do you know whether any of tlie men were sent
down below to see whether any of the doors were closed or not ?
Mr. RowE. I could not say.
Senator Burton. You would not have known of that, really, auy-
way, would you ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Was there anj' steam coming up through any
of the hatches or ventilators ?
Mr. RowE. No, sir. The only steam I saw was coming out of
exhaust pipes.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any explosions ?
Mr. RowE. I heard one, sir, after we left the ship. It was not an
explosion; a sort of a rumbling.
Senator Burton. What do you think it was ?
Mr. RowE. I have no idea what it was.
Senator Burton. Do you think it was boilers exploding ?
Mr. RowE. It was not an ordinary explosion, you understand;
more like distant thunder.
Senator Burton. Was that before or after the ship sank?
Mr. RowE. Before she sank, sir.
Senator Burton. Were there more than one of those ex])losions i
Mr. RowE. I only heard the one, sir.
(4 ..,^.«**^ 9f
526 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Burton. How far from the ship were you when she went
down?
Mr. RowE. About three-quarters of a mile, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see her go down ?
Mr. RowE. I saw her stern disappear at the finish, sir.
Senator Burton. It was while she was still floating that you heard
the explosions?
Mr. KowE. Heard this rumbUng sound, sir.
Senator Burton. You are quite sure of that, are you ?
Mr. RowE. Positive, sir.
G. T. RowE.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 30th day of April, A. D.
1912.
[seal.] E. L. Cornelius,
Notary.
TESTIMOVT OF MB. ALFBED 0LLI7EB.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Burton on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Senator Bltiton. What is your name ?
Mr. Olliver. Alfred OlUver.
Senator Burton. How old are you ?
Mr. Olliver. Twenty-eight next 6th of June.
Senator Burton. How long have you been a sailor?
Mr. Olliver. I have been a sailor ever since I was 16.
Senator Burton. Navy or merchant marine ?
Mr. Olliver. Both.
Senator Burton. How long in the Navy ?
Mr. Olliver. Seven years.
Senator Burton. You were first on duty in the Navy ?
Mr. Olliver. I was in the Navy first, and then I came into the
merchant marine afterwards.
Senator Burton. What was your position on the boat ?
Mr. Olliver. Quartermaster.
Senator Burton. Where were you when the collision occurred?
Mr. Olliver. I was stand-by quartermaster on the bridge. I had
been relieved from the wheel at 10 o^clock, and I was stand-by after
10 o'clock. I was running messages and doing various other duties.
I was not right on the bridge; I was just entermg the bridge. I had
just performed an errand and was entering the bridge when the colli-
sion occurred.
Senator Burton. Just state what happened ?
Mr. Olliver. When I was doing this bit of duty I heard thi'ce
bells rung up in the crow's nest, which I knew that it was something
ahead; so I looked, but I did not see anything. I happened to be
looking at the lights in the standing compass at the time. That was
my duty, to look at the lights in the standing compass, and I was
trimming them so that they would bum properly. When I heard
the report, I looked, but could not see anything, and I left that and
came and was just entering on the bridge just as the shock came. I
knew we had touched something.
Senator Burton, Just describe what that shock was.
Mr. Olliver. I found out we had struck an iceberg.
Senator Burton. Did you see that iceberg ?
€ i -«.-. . ^,»^ 9 f
TITANIC DISASTER. 527
Mr. Ollivsr. Yes- I did, sir.
Senator Burton. Describe it.
Mr. Olliver. The iceberg was about the height of the boat deck;
if anything, just a little higher. It was almost alongside of the boat,
sir. The top did not touch the side of the boat, but it was almost
alongside of the boat.
Senator Burton. What kind of a sound was there ?
Mr. Olliver. The soimd was like she touched something; a long,
grinding sound, like.
Senator Burton. How long did that sound last ?
Mr. Olliver. It did not last many seconds.
Senator Burton. How far aft did the giindii^ sound go ?
Mr. Olliver. The grinding sound was before I saw the iceberg.
The grinding sound was not when I saw the icebei^.
Senator Burton. Where was the iceberg when you saw it, abeam
or abaft ?
Mr. Olliver. Just abaft the bridge when I saw it.
Senator Burton. What was the length of it alons; beside the boat ?
Mr. Olliver. That I could not say, the lengUi of the iceberg,
because I only saw the top. It was impossible to see the length of
the icebergfrom where I was standing.
Senator JBurton. What was the shape at the top ?
Mr. Olliver. The shape was pointea.
Senator Burton. You could not tell how wide it was \
Mr. Olliver. I only saw the tip top of the iceberg.
Senator Burton. Did you notice the course of the oerg as it passed
vou?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I did not notice the course of the berg as it
passed us. It went aft the after part of the ship. I did not see it
afterwards, because I did not have time to know where it was going.
Senator Burton. Do you know whether the wheel was hard aport
then? ^ ^
Mr. Olliver. What I know about the wheel — I was stand-by to
run messages, but what I knew about the helm is, hard aport.
Senator Burton. Do you mean hard aport or hard astarboard ?
Mr. Olliver. I know the orders I heard when I was on the bridge
was after we had struck the iceberg. I heard hard aport, and there
was the man at the wheel and the officer. The officer was seeiug it
was carried out right.
Senator Burton. What officer was it ?
Mr. Olliver. Mr. Moody, the sixth officer, was stationed in the
wheelhouse.
Senator Burton. Who was the man at the wheel ?
Mr. Olliver. Hichens, quartermaster.
Senator Burton. You do not know whether the helm was put hard
astarboard first, or not ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I do not know that.
Senator Burton. But you know it was put hard aport after you
frot there ?
Mr. Olliver. After I got there; yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Where was the iceberg, do you think, when the
helm was dluf ted ?
Mr. Olliver. The iceberg was away up stem.
Senator Burton. That is when the order ''hard aport'' was given ?
528 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Olliver. That is when the order ''hard aport" was given; yes,
sir.
Senator Burton. Who gave the order ?
Mr. Olliver. The first officer.
Senator Burton. And that order was immediately executed, was it ?
Mr. Olliver. Immediately executed, and the sixth officer saw that
it was carried out.
Senator Burton.' How long did this sound continue; can you tell
that ?
Mr. Olliver. I can not say exactly, but I should say it was not
many seconds.
Senator Burton. Could you tell how far aft the sound continued ?
Mr. Olliver. I could not say how far aft, sir, because I do not know
where it started and where it finished. I do not know.
Senator Burton. You could not tell about that ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Was it 100 feet? Did it rub against the boat
behind where you were ?
Mr. Olliver. Not behind where I was. It did not, to my knowl-
edge, rub behind where I was; it was before.
Senator Burton. You can not tell, then, for how many feet it
nibbed against the boat ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. But you think it got away from the boat before
t lie place where you were?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see the iceberg?
Mr. Olliver. I tellyou, sir, I saw the tip top of it.
Senator Burton. What color was it ?
Mr. Olliver. It was not white, as I expected to see an iceberg. It
was a kind of a dark-blue hue. It was not jvhite.
Senator Burton. Did you see a light ?
Mr. Olliver. On any other ship but the TUanict
Senator Burton. Yes.
Mr. Olliver. I saw lights in the boats, being displayed by the
boats.
Senator Burton. I mean of another boat ?
Mr. Olliver. I saw what I thought was a light ; but then I could
not say whether it was a proper light or whether it was a star.
Senator Burton. Did you see this before the ship struck ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; after we were in the boats.
Senator Burton. You did not see it when you were on board the
THianicf
Mr. Olliver. No; I did not.
Senator Burton. In what boat did you go down to the water ?
Mr. Olliver. No. 5 boat. That was on the starboard side.
Senator Burton. In the order in which they were lowered, which
was yours ?
Mr. Olliver. It was the third on that side.
Senator Burton. Who had charge of that boat?
Mr. Olliver. Mr. Pitman, sir.
Senator Burton. How many of the crew were there with him ^
Mr. Olliver. There was the officer, Mr. Pitman, myself, sailor,
and two firemen and two stewards.
tt ^.-.-.M.^.*^ f'
TITANIC DISASTER. 529
Senator Burton. Six in all ?
Mr. Oi-LiVER. Six in all.
Senator Burton. How many passengers were there in the boat ?
Mr. Ollivbr. When we lowered the boat there was, I should sav —
I do not know the exact number, but I should say — about 40 before
we lowered the boat.
Senator Burton. Did you have any trouble in lowering the boat ?
Mr. Olliver. There were so many people that when I got in the
boat I went to put the plug in, and tnere were so many people around
me I could not get near the plug to put the plug in. As he was low-
ering the boat I implored the passengers to move so that I could put
the plug in, so that as soon as they put the boat in the water I lot
the tripper go and water came into tne boat; but I then forced my
way to the plug and put it in. If it was not for that the boat would
have been swamped.
Senator Burton. What position did you have in the boat after
you got into the water ?
Mr. Olliver. I was rowing, sir, after I let go the tripper.
Senator Burton. Was there any rush when you got mto the boat ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; there was not. I helped to put the passen-
gers in myself.
Senator Burton. Were most of the passengers up on the top deck
at that time ?
Mr. Olliver. At the time, sir, there were some in the other boats.
Senator Burton. Was it crowded around there ?
Mr. Olliver. No; not so overcrowded.
Senator Burton. Were there firemen and stokers up there ?
Ml'. Olliver. Yes, sir; some, I think.
Senator Burton. Did you notice any passengers on the lower
decks as you went by ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I was busy looking after the safety of the
boat.
Senator Burton. Would you have seen them if they were there ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; not for what I was doing, because I did not
look toward the ship.
Senator Burton. Were your passengers all women and children?
Mr. Olliver. There were also a few men.
Senator Burton. How many do you think, about ?
Mr. Olliver. I should say tnere were about six or eight men.
Senator Burton. What was the order in which your boat was
unloaded on the Carpathiaf Was it the first, second, or third — ^what
was it t
Mr. Olliver. It was the fourth or fifth, I think.
Senator Burton. Pid you get along comfortably in the water?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir. It was cold, but we got along comfort-
ablv in the water, sir.
^nator Burton. Did you hear Pitman give an order to go back
to the ship ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What happened ?
Mr. Olliver. The women passengers implored him not to go,
because they reckoned it was not safe.
Senator Burton. How far were you away from the ship then ?
Mr. Olliver. I should say about 300 yards.
530 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Burton. Did Pitman then countermand the order ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir; he did not go.
Senator Burton. I)id only a few oi the passengers on board objec t
to his gx)ing back, or did they all obiect ?
Mr. Olliver. They very nearly au objected.
Senator Burton. Did any ask him to go back ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; not as I know <h.
Senator Burton. Would it have been safe to go back I
Mr. Olliver. To my idea, sir, no.
Senator Burton. Why not ?
Mr. Olliver. I reckon it would have been endangering the lives
of the people we had in the boat already.
Senator Burton. In what way; by being sucked down, or by per-
sons trying to climb on ?
Mr. Olliver Both, sir.
Senator Burton. Wliich would have been the more serious of the
two?
Mr. Olliver. The suction, as I thought, sir.
Senator Burton. After the ship was sunk, there could have been
no.suction, could there ?
Mr. Olliver. There could have been none, no; but this was before.
Senator Burton. After she had sunk?
Mr. Olliver We had orders to pull back toward the ship before
sh.e sank.
Senator Burton, Did you have any orders to pull back after she
sank?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; we did not; we were farther away.
Senator Burton. Were there cries and oaoanii^ from the place
where the boat had sunk ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes. It lasted about 10 minutes.
Senator Burton. Did it not laat longer than that ?
Mr. Olliver. No; not to my idea.
Senator Burton. Then, you were only about 300 yards away ?
Mr. Olliver. When the cries were heard we were farther, but
when the ship sank we were about 300 yards away.
Senator Bxtrton. About how far away were you then ?
Mr. Olliver. I should say about 500 yards uien.
Senalor Burton. So far as danger of capsismg is concerned, after
the boat had sunk you could have gone back, could you 'not ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir; we coula have gone back.
Senatw Burton. Were you afraid that the boat would be cap-
sized by persons trying to climb in ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I was not afraid.
Senator Burton. Who was afraid ?
Mr. Olliver. The passengers; the women, especially.
Senator Burton. Did they voice their fear ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you see the boat sink ?
Mr. Olliver. I can not say that I saw it right plain; but to my
imagination I did, because the lights went out before she weiit down.
Senator Burton. How did she sink?*
Mr. Olliver. She was well down at the head at first, when we got
away from her at first, and to my idea she broke forward, and the
afterpart righted itself and made another plunge and went right
<( ««*.... *«^ ff
TITANIO DI8ASTE1E. 531
down. I fancied I saw her black form. It was dark, and I fancied I
saw her black form going that way. ' '^^
Senator Burton. Did she careen over, tip over sideways, or did she
go ahead ?
Mr. Olliver. She went ahead, Uke that [indicating].
Senator Burton. Did you hear explosions ?
Mr. Olliver. I heard several little explosions, but it was not such
explosions as I expected to hear. #
Senator Burton. Were these before or after she sank ?
Mr. Olliver. Before she sank and while she was sinking.
Senator Burton. What did you think those explosions were 1
Mr. Olliver. Myself, I thought they were like bulkheads giving in.
Senator Burton. Do you know whether the water-tight doors were
closed or not ?
Mr. Olliver. The first officer closed the water-tight doors, sir.
Senator Burton. When?
Mr. Olliver. On the bridge, just after she struck; and reported to
the captain that they were closed. I heard that myself.
Senator Burton. How did you know they were closed?
ifr. Olliver. Because Mr. Murdock reported, and as I entered the
bridge I saw him about the lever.
Senator Burton. Did he have any way of telling whether they
were closed or not ?
Mr. Olliver. There is a lever on the bridge to close the water-tight
doors, and he turned the lever over and closed them.
Senator Burton. Was there an instrument there to show the doors
as they closed ? Did you ever see one of those instruments ?
Mr. Olliver. No; 1 never saw one.
Senator Burton. With little lights that bum up as each door
clos^, and then go out ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. There was no instrument like that on the
Tiianicf
Mr. Olliver. I did not see that.
Senator Burton. Would you have seen it if it had been there?
Mr. Olliver. No doubt I would, sir.
Senator Burton. Was there any steam coming out of anywhere
except the exhaust pipe ?
Mr. Olliver. I did not see any.
Senator Burton. Did you hear anybody say that they saw steam
coming out ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Were there any alarms or signals given to arouse
the passengers on the ship ?
Mr. Olliver. I was not down below, sir; I could not say.
Senator Burton. Could you have neard them from where you
were on the bridge ?
Mr. Olliver. pfo, sir.
Senator Burton. Were the engines reversed; was she backed?
Mr. Olliver. Not whilst I was on the bridge; but whilst on the
bridge she went ahead, after she struck; she went half speed ahead.
Senator Burton. The engines went half speed ahead, or the ship ?
Mr. Olliver. Half speed ahead, after she nit the ice.
Senator Burton. Who gave the order?
40475— FT 7—12 2
532 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Olliv^r. The captain telegraphed half speed ahead.
Senator Burton. Had the engines been backing before he did
that?
Mr. Olliver. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Burton. Did she have much way on ?
Mr. Olliver. When?
Senator Burton. When he put the enmies half speed ahead?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir. I reckon the snip was almost stopped.
Senator Burton. He must have backed the enjgines, then.
Mr. Olliver. He must have done so, unless it was hitting the
iceberg stopped the way of the ship.
Senator Burton. You did not hit it squarely, did you ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; a glancing blow.
Senator Burton. If there had been more lifeboats, would there
have been any difficulty in getting them out?
Mr. Olliver. No more difficult than what the others were, if they
had been the same boats and placed the same way.
Senator Burton. Suppose they had been stowed just inboard of
the present boats, Uke the collapsible boats?
Mr. Olliver. The collapsible boats are more trouble, the way they
are placed, to get out, than what the others were in their places.
Senator Burton. In your opinion as a sailor man, whim would be
the more valuable, lifeboats stowed inboard — two rows of lifeboats —
or collapsible boats stowed inboard ?
Mr. Olliver. I reckon the lifeboats, sir, would be the easiest.
Senator Burton. There would have been room for three right
Ihere side by side, would there not ?
Mr. Olliver. The way the collapsible boats were, there was not
loom for three.
Senator Burton. There was room for two, was there not ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did the boat gear work all right ?
Mr. Olliver. The boat gear worked all right m the boat I went
down in.
Senator Burton. How nxany passengers do you think could have
been safely lowered in that boat ?
Mr. Olliver. I reckon there was enough in that boat for safety.
If there had been more «t would have been dangerous.
Senator Burton. In what way? .
Mr. OujVER, Too many, sir.
Senator Burton. Danger that the boat would break in two ?
Mr. Olliver. Break, su*; and also the rope.
Senator Burton. Could the boat have held more after she struck
the water ?
Mr. Oluvbr. After she struck the water; yes.
Senator Burton. Was there any way of getting more passengers
HI to the boat after she struck the water ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I did not see any way to get passengers in
then; and we were told to stand off.
Senator Burton. Do you know whether there was any provision
in the ship for getting passengers into the boats in this way after the
boats were in the water ?
Mr. Olliver. I did not see any.
Senator Burton. Were there any small rowboats ?
tt «*«..^.«^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTBB. 538
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Were you told to go toward this light ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; we were not told to go toward this light.
Senator Burton. What officer directed the taking oflF of your boat ?
Mr. Olliver. The first officer, Murdock.
Senator Burton. Was there any stowaway in your boat?
Mr. Olliver. I did not see any.
Senator Burton. How high up was the water on the ship when your
boat was lowered ?
Mr. Olliver. When we were alongside, I could not see, because I
was busy in the bottom of the boat, and I could not see what was
about, because I was pretty near suffocated myself doing what I was
doing. When we got away from the ship I should say 25 or 30 yards,
I should say the water was about, I should say there [indicating].
She had sunk between 15 and 20 feet right at the bows.
Senator Burton. Did you notice whether her propellers were out of
water or not ?
Mr. Olliver. I noticed she was up by the stem, but I did not
notice the propellers.
Senator Burton. But you did notice she was up by the stem ?
Mr. Olliver. Up by the stem; yes sir.
Senator Burton. IHd you see the captain ring to the engines to
stop?
Mr. Olliver. To stop.
Senator Burton. How long did he go ahead half speed )
Mr. Olliver. Not very long, sir.
Senator Burton. One minute, two minutes, five minutes ?
Mr. Olliver. I could not say the number of minutes, because
I had messages in the meantime.
Senator Burton. But you know he went ahead half speed ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir; I know he went ahead half speed.
Senator Burton. Then he stopped ?
Mr. Olliver. I could not say whether he stopped. The ship was
stopped when we took to the boats.
Senator Burton. You saw the captain ?
Mr. Olliver. I saw the captain.
Senator Burton. Where was he and what was he doing?
Mr. Olliver. On the bridge. When he first came on the bridge
he asked the first officer what was the matter, and Mr. Murdock
reported, sir, that we had struck an iceberg, and the captain ordered
him to have the water-tight doors closed, and Mr. Murdock reported
that the water-tight doors were closed.
Senator Burton. Did you hear him give any other orders ?
Mr. Olliver. The captain gave me orders to tell the carpenter to
go and take the draft of the water.
Senator Burton. Where did you find the carpenter ?
Mr. Olliver. Down below, already doing it.
Senator Burton. Where, down below ?
Mr. Olliver. In the working alleyway.
Senator Burton. Forward ?
Mr. Olliver. It is like forward; it is a forward part of the ship —
not right forward.
Senator Burton. Did you see any water down there ?
Mr. Olliver. No, I dia not, sir.
584 TITANIC DISABTBB.
Senator Bubton. What deck was that on, E deck or F deck t
Mr. Olliver. It was in a place we called the working alleyway.
Senator Bubton. Is not that right along here — the working alley-
way [indicating on chart] ?
Mr. Olliver. It is on E deck.
Senator Bubton. Did you see any damage there ?
Mr. Olliveb. No, I did not, sir.
Senator Bubton. Nothing displaced ?
Mr. Olliveb. No. It was about in line here that I saw the carpen-
ter. He was taking the draft.
Senator Bubton. What did he say about the draft ?
Mr. Olliveb. He says, "All right; I am doing it."
Senator Bubton. Did he say he had found any water?
Mr. Olliveb. He did not tell me.
Senator Burton. Did you hear him report anything to the captain ?
Mr. Olltveb. No, sir; I did not wait for an answer. As soon as I
got on the bridge, I had another message.
Senator Bubton. What was the other message ?
Mr. Olliveb. A message to take to the chief engineer.
Senator Bubton. What message did you take to the chief engineer ?
Mr. Olliveb. I can not say the message. It was on a piece of paper
and the paper was closed.
Senator Bubton. Where did you find the chief engineer ?
Mr. Olliveb. Down in the engine-room.
Senator Bubton. What was he doing ?
Mr. Olliveb. He was at work down there.
Senator Bubton. Were the engines running ?
Mr. Olliveb. The engines were not running. They were stopped.
Senator Bubton. Did he say anything about any water conung in
down there ?
Mr. Olliveb. I delivered the message, and I waited for an answer.
I waited for two or three minutes. Then he saw me standingi and he
asked me what I wanted. I said I was waiting for an answer to the
message I took him. He told me to take bacK — to tell the captain
that he would get it done as soon as possible.
Senator Bubton. Do you know what it was ?
Mi. Olliveb. I do not, sir. The message was on the paper, and I
did not see it.
Senator Bubton. Did you hear any of the engineer officers down
there say anything about damage below ?
Mr. Olliveb. No, sir.
Senator Bubton. Did you see any stokers come out of the stoke
room?
Mr. Olliveb. They were coining out of the stoke rooms along the
alleyway.
Senator Bubton. Were any of the men coining out of the engine
room ?
Mr. Olliveb. I did not see any coining out of the engine room.
Senator Bubton. Did the men seem to be excited, as if they feared
the ship would sink?
Mr. 6lliveb. No, sir.
Senator Bubton. The chief engineer did not say anything more
to you?
Mr. Olliveb. No, sir.
t< ..»^.«*«^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 535
Senator Bxjbton. Did you hear any of them talking between them-
selves down there ?
Mr. Ollivbr. No, sir; I did not, because I was standing apart
from them. It is not our place to go and stand to hear what officers
are talking about.
Senator Bubton. I understand; but I thought you might have
heard?
Mr. Olliveb, No, sir.
Senator Bubton. Were they talking among themselves ?
Mr. Oluveb. They were talking as regards the work, I expect;
but I did not take notice what they were saying.
Senator Bubton. The lights were all going}
Mr. Olliveb. Yes, sir; tne lights were gomg in the engine room,
but I believe they opened the water-tight door leading to the stoke-
hole, and it looked very black inside there.
Senator Bubton. Wno opened it ?
Mr. Olliveb. I expect the engineers done it.
Senator Bubton. Which stokehole ?
Mr. Olliveb. I can not say the number of the stokehole, but it
is the stokehole next to the engine room.
Senator Bubton. Did you. see them when they opened it ?
Mr. Oluveb. No, sir; I did not see them when they opened it, but
it was open.
Senator Bubton. Was the door to the stokehole open while you
were there in the engine room ?
Mr. Oluveb. Yes. There was a man went through whilst I was
down.
Senator Bubton. Went through down into the stokehole ?
Mr. Oluveb. He went througn the door that was open.
Senator Bubton. Was that door shut when you nret got down
there ?
Mr. Oluveb. No, sir; it was open.
Senator Bubton. And it looked black in the stokehole ?
Mr. Olliveb. In the stokehole; yes, sir.
Senator Bubton. Did you see any men coming out of there ?
Mr. Olliveb. I did not see any men coming out of there; no, sir.
Senator Bubton. You saw a man go in there ?
Mr. Olliveb. An engineer went in.
Senator Bubton. You do not know what he went in for?
Mr. Olliveb. No, sir.
Senator Bubton. The electric lights were going in the engine room ?
Mr. Olliveb. Yes, sir.
Senator Bubton. You do not think they were going in that stoke-
hole?
Mr. Olliveb. No, sir.
Senator Bubton. Wliat other messages did you carry ?
Mr. Olliveb. As soon as I came on the bridge I delivered back the
message I was told to deliver to the captain.
Senator Bubton. What message was it ?
Mr. Olliveb. That he would get it done as soon as possible, the
chief engineer told me; that he would get it done as soon as possible,
and to return that to the captain. As soon as I delivered that mes-
sage the chief officer sent me to the boatswain of the ship and told me
to tell the boatswain to get the oar lines and to uncover the boats and
686 TITANIC I>I8ABTEE.
get them ready for lowering, and I done so, and came back on the
bridge. No sooner did I get on the bridge than the sixth officer told
me to go and get the boat's list, so that he could muster the men at
the boats. I went and got the sailors' boat list and took it to him.
Then somebody told me to muster the boats.
Senator Burton. That boat list has the names showing where each
man is stationed at the boats ?
Mr. Olliver. Where each man is stationed at the boats.
Senator Burton. Did you muster the men at the boats ?
Mr. Olliver. I did not muster the men at the boats. I gave this to
Mr. Moody, the sixth officer.
Senator Burton. Did he muster the men at the boats f
Mr. Olliver. That I can not say; I did not see him; but I gave him
the list.
Senator Burton. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Olliver. Then I went to my boat to muster them.
Senator Burton. Then you left the ship in the boat at which you
were stationed on the boat list ?
Mr. Olliver. Stationed at on the boat list.
Senator Burton. And you did not run any more messages t
Mr. Olliver. I did not run any mora messages.
Senator Burton. Were any of the men in the dynamo room saved,
do you know ?
Mr. Olliver. I do not know.
Senator Burton. None of the engineers were saved ?
Mr. Olliver. It is hard to recognize everybody.
Senator Burton. You do not know ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. What time did your boat get to the water ?
Mi. Olliver. I do not know the exact time. I can not say the
exact time.
Senator Burton. About when was it, do you think ?
Mr. Olliver. I should say it was near on 1 o'clock.
Senator Burton. You did not hear any orders given when you
were down in the engine room about starting any pumps, did you ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Do you know whether any pumps were started?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; because I do not know anytning about down
in the engine room.
Senator Burton. Did you hear any hissing of steam or any noise
in that stokehole to which the door was open 1
Mr. Olliver. I did not.
Senator Burton. Did you see the captain write out this order to
the chief engineer?
Mr. Olliver. I did not, sir.
Senator Burton. He had it written out when he gave it to you ?
Mr. Olliver. He had it written out when he gave it to me.
Senator Burton. In what form was it ? It was not inside of an
envelope, was it ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; it was not. It was bent at the comer, and
he told me to take that to the engineer.
Senator Burton. It was folded and bent at the comer?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir; and bent at the corner.
Senator Burton. Was it a form of order that is used ?
€< «„.^.^.« f9
TITAKIC DISASTER. 537
Mr. Olliter. I think so, sir. I think it was a form of order. I
had taken messages like that before, and they were the same orders.
Senator Burton. Were you sent to the chief engineer after the
carpenter had reported to the captain?
Mr. OixivER. 1 do not know. I do not know when the carpenter
reported to the captain.
Senator Burton. You were sent after you had been down to see
the carpenter?
Mr. Olliveb. After I had been down to see the carpenter.
Senator Burton. How long after that ?
Mr. Olliver. As soon as I got Jback on the bridge.
Senator Burton. Did you hear the pumps operating at all ?
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Bltiton. Had you ever been down- there before to take
messages ?
i£r. Olliver. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Had you ever been in this stokehold before ?
Mr. Olliver. Yes, sir
Senator Burton. Was there a light there then ?
Mr. Olliver. A faint light, sir.
Senator Burton. But there was no faint light there at this time!
Mr. Olliver. No, sir; it was black.
A. Olliver.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 30th day of April, A. D.
1912.
[seal.] E. L. CoAnelius, Notary,
TESTIMOHY OF MB. FRANK OSMABT.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Burton on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Senator Burton. How old are you ?
Mr. OsMAN. Thirty-eight, sir.
Senator Burton. You are a seaman ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What is your duty — able seaman or deckhand,
and for how long ?
Mr. OsMAN. Smce I was 14J.
Senator Burton. Navy and merchant marine both?
Mr. OsMAN. Both navy and merchant service.
Senator Burton. Which first ?
Mr. OsMAN. Navy.
Senator Burton. How long?
Mr. OsMAN. Eleven years and three months.
Senator Burton. Since then you have been with the White Star?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. On what boats have you been besides tlxis one ?
Mr. OsMAN. The Oceanic was the only one besides this one.
Senator Burton. Where were you when the collision occurred ?
Mr. OsMAN. Outside the seamen's dining room.
Senator Burton. Tell what happened.
Mr. OsMAN. I was waiting for one bell, which they strike, one bell
just before the quarter of the hour, before the four hours, when you
get a call to relieve; and I heard three bells strike, and I thought there
538 TITANIC DISASTER.
was a ship ahead. Just after that I heard the collision, and I went out
in the foresquare, that is, the fore well deck, just against the seamen's
mess room. Looking in the forewell square I saw ice was there. I
went down below and stepped down there, and seen the sliip was
getting a bit of a list. Then they passed the order that all the seamen
ad to go up and clear away all the boats. All of us went up and
cleared away the boats. After that we loaded all the boats there w^ere,
and I went away in No. 2 boat, the fourth from the last to leave the
ship.
Senator Burton. Was your^s lowered first, second, or third ?
Mr. OsMAN. Fourth from the last, about the sixteenth boat to lower.
Senator Burton. Who had command of that boat ?
Mr. OsMAN. The fourth officer, Mr. Boxhall.
Senator Burton. Did he direct the loading of the boat ?
Mr. OsMAN. No, sir; the chief officer, Mr. Murdock.
Senator Burton. How many were in that boat ? First the sea-
men and then the passengers.
Mr. Osman. There was one able seaman, sir, a cook, and a steward,
and an officer. That was all the men there was in the boat out of the
crew. There was one man, a third-class passenger, and the remainder
were women and children.
Senator Burton. You were the able seaman ?
Mr. Osman. Yes, sir.
Senator Butiton. How many women were in the boat ?
Mr. Osman. I could not say exactly how many there were, but there
were between 25 and 30. all told.
Senator Burtoi^. Including the seamen ?
Mr. Osman. Including the crew. This was one of the emergency
boats.
Senator Burton. Did you have any trouble in lowering the boat ?
Mr. Osman. No, sir; the boat went down very easy, very steady
indeed.
Senator Burton. Was it full ?
Mr. Osman. Yes, sir; full right up.
Senator Burton. Did you get along comfortably or was there
suffering ?
Mr. Osman. There was only one lady there, a first-class passenger —
I did not know her name — who was worrying. That was the only
thing that was said.
Senator Burton. In what order were you taken onto the Carpathiaf
Mr. Osman. I was the first boat back, sir. After I got in the boat
the officer found a bunch of rockets, which was put m the boat by
mistake for a box of biscuits. Having them in the boat, the officer
fired some off, and the CarpcUhia came to us first and picked us up a
half an hour before anyboay else.
Senator Burton. Did you steer for a light?
Mr. Osman. No, sir; we saw a light; but the other boats were mak-
ing for it, and the officer was not sure whether it was a light or whether
it was not, and as he had the rockets thev could repeat the signals.
Senator Burton. Did you see that light?
Mr. Osman. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What did you think it was ?
Mr. Osman. I thought it was a sailing vessel from the banks.
Senator Burton. When did you last have a sight of that light?
ii .—^...^^^ ff
TETAKIO DISASTER. 539
Mr. OsMAN. About an hour afterwards.
Senator Burton. What do you think about it? Did it sail away?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir; she saoled right away.
Senator Burton. You are sure you saw that light ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir: quite sure, sir.
Senator Burton. What was it, a stern hght ?
Mr. OsMAN. No, sir; a masthead light.
Senator Burton. Does a sailing ship have a white light on her
masthead ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You are sure that light was not a star ?
Mr. Osman. I am sure it was not a star.
Senator Burton. Just what happened when you were on the boat ?
Did you see this iceberg?
Mr. Osman. Not untu the morning.
Senator Burton. Are you sure it was the one ?
Mr. Osman. Yes, sir; you could see it was the one, sir.
Senator Burton, How high was it ?
Mr. Osman. At a rough estimate it was 100 feet out of the water.
Senator Burton. What shape was it ?
Mr. Osman. It was round, and then had one big point sticking up
on one side of it.
Senator Burton. What was its color ?
Mr. Osman. It was apparently dark, like dirty ice.
Senator Burton. How far away from it were you when you saw it ?
Mr. Osman. About 100 yards.
Senator Burton. How dfid you know that was the one you struck ?
Mr. Osman. We could see it was the biggest berg there, and the
other ones would not have done so much damage, 1 think.
Senator Burton, Was there any mark on the side, as if it had
collided with something ?
Mr. Osman. It looked as if there was a piece broken off after she
struck, and the ice fell on board. I went and picked up a piece of
ice and took it down below in my sleeping room.
Senator Burton. There was some httle time that you were down
below, was there not ?
Mr. Osman. Yes sir; a matter of 10 minutes.
Senator Burton. Not more than 10 minutes?
Mr. OsMAX. Not more than 10 minutes..
Senator Burton. I do not see, quite, how you account for all the
time after the collision before you took to the boat.
Mr. Osman. It is only just nke walking out of the door.
Senator Burton. About what time was this boat lowered in which
you went away?
Mr. Osman. I could not say exactly the time.
Senator Burton. About how long after the collision ?
Mr. Osman. About an hour, I suppose — an hour and a half.
Senator Burton. You say the boat listed. Did it list to the port
or the starboard ?
Mr. Osman. To the starboard.
Senator Burton. How much ?
Mr. Osman. A matter of about that angle [indicating]. A gradual
list, it was; four or five degrees.
t-€ •^V*. . -H»*« > '
540 TTTAK'lC TXTSAStEB.
Senator Burton. Did you take any part in loading any of the
other boats ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes; I helped load four of the boats on the star-
board side.
Senator Burton. Was there any panic ?
Mr. OsMAN. No; there was no panic at all. I was helping women
and children in the boat and the crew was lowering boats.
Senator Burton. Was there any panic ?
Mr. OsMAN. I never seen no panic there.
Senator Burton. When you were down on that lower deck, did
you see persons moving about there ?
Mr. OsMAN. No; there was nobody there at all, because Mr. Mur-
dock was singing out, *'Is there any more women and children here to
put in my boat?"
Senator Burton. I mean, before you went up to man the boat,
were there any people moving about where you were, down on the
lower deck ?
Mr. OsMAN. Oh, no, sir; there was nobody there.
Senator Burton. Where are the seamen^s quarters ?
Mr. OsMAN. Up here, underneath the forecastle head.
Senator Burton. They are on the upper deck, underneath the
forecastle head ?
Mr. OsMAN. That is it, sir.
Senator Burton. How many seamen were there ?
Mr. OsMAN. Forty-four, altogether.
Senator Burton. You did not have all the boat's crew there, then;
there are more than 44 in the crew, are there not ? You mean by
that able seamen, do you not?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You do not mean quartermasters, and such as
that ?
Mr. OsMAN. No; I do not count quartermasters with the seamen.
Senator Burton. Do you count lookout men with the able seamen t
Mr. OsMAN. Yes. They all Hve in the same place. But the
quartermaster is in a different place, on the other side.
Senator Burton. You do not mean that those were all of the
crew, even excluding the quartermasters, do you ?
Mr. OsMAN. That is all there is in the crew, sir.
Senator Burton. Just count those again ?
Mr. OsMAN. There was 25 altogether in both watches, 13 in one
watch and 12 in the other* then there was 2 deckmen, the cook of
the forecastle, 2 window cleaners, 6 lookout men, and 2 masters-at-
arms counted with the seamen.
Senator Burton. You are just counting the men in your mess ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. How many quartermasters ?
Mr. OsMAN. Six quartermasters. One boatswain, boatswain's
mate, carpenter, and joiner.
Senator Burton. How far were you away from the boat when she
sank?
Mr. OsMAN. Sixty to 100 yards.
Senator Burton. Was there much suction ?
Mr. OsMAN. There was no suction whatever. When we were in
the boat we shoved off from the ship, and I said to the officer, **See if
*€ - - - ff
you ean get alongside to see if you can get any more hands, to gee if
you can squeeze any more hands in/' So the women then started to
fetting nervous after I said that, and the officer said ^^All right."
'he women disagreed to that. We pulled around to the starboard
side of the ship and found we could not get to the starboard side
because it was hsting too far. We pulled astern that way again, and
after we got astern we lay on our oars and saw the ship go down.
After she got to a certain angle she exploded, broke in halveB, and it
seemed to me as if all the engines and eyerything that was in the
after part slid out into the forward part, and the uter part came up
right again, and as soon as it came up right down it went again.
Senator Burton. What do you think those explosions were i
Mr. OsM AN. The boilers bursting.
Senator Burton. What makes you think that ?
Mr. OsMAN. The cold water coming under the red-hot boilers
caused the explosions.
Senator Burton. Yon reasoned that out?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes; but you could see the explosions by the smoke
coming right up the funnels.
Senator Burton. Did you see any steam and smoke coming?
iSi. OsMAN. Yes.
Senator Burton. Did you see any sparks ?
lirlr. Obman. It was all olack; looKeci l^ce as if it was lumps of coal,
and all that.
Senator Burton. Coming up through the funnels ?
Mr. OsMAN. Through the funnels.
Senator Burton. That is, there was a great amount of black smoke
coining up through the funnels just after this explosion ?
Mr. OsMAN. Just after the explosion.
Senator Burton. And there were lumps of coal, etc., coming up?
Mr, OsMAN. Yes; pretty big lumps. Ido not know what it was.
Senator Burton. Did any water come up ?
Mr. OsMAN. I never seen no water; only the steam and very black
smoke.
Senator Burton. Why did you not go back to the place where the
boat had sunk after she had gone down ?
Mr. OsMAN. The women were all nervous and we pulled aroimd as
far as we could get to her, so that the women would not see, and it
would not cause a panic, and we got as close as we would dare to by the
women. We coidd not have taken any more hands into the boat; it
was impossible. We might have got one in. That is about all. The
steerage passengers were all down below, and after she got a certain
distance it seemed to me all the passengers climbed up her.
Senator Burton. Steerage passengers, too ?
Mr. OsMAN. All the passengers there were.
Senator Burton. That were left on board ?
^. OsMAN. Yes.
Senator Burton. Did you see any of them climb up there ?
Mr. OsMAN. It looked blacker. She was white around there
[indicating], and it looked like a big crowd of people.
Senator Burton. Then you think the passengers, first, second,
and third class, went up on the top deck?
Mr. OsMAN. On the top deck; yes.
542 TITANIC DIBABXEB.
Senator Bubton. Do you think there were any passengers down
in here when she went down [indicating on diagram]?
Mr. OsMAN. I do not think so. I could not say as to that.
Senator Burton. Was there anjr panic amongst these steerage
passengers when they started manning the boats t
Mr. OsMAN. No. I saw several people come up from there, and
go straight up on the boat deck. That is one thing I saw; and the
men stood back while the women and children sot in the boat.
Senator Bubton. Steerage passengers, as weU as others ?
Mr. OsMAN. One steerage passenger, a man, and his wife and two
children, were in my boat ; all belonged to the one family.
Senator Burton. You toot the man ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes; that was the only man passenger we had in the
boat.
Senator Burton. What do you think ? Do you think they believed
the shin would float ?
Mr. OsMAN. I thought so, myself. I thought it was going down
a certain depth, and would float after that.
Senator Burton. Did you hear anv conversation around among
the passengers as to whether she would sink or not?
Mr. OsMAN. No; I never heard anything amount the passengers
as to whether she would sink. The only thing 1 heara was one
passenger was saying he was going in the boat, and stand by the
ship.
senator Burton. You heard one passenger say that ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes.
Senator Burton. Would you rather have gotten into the boat, or
stayed on the ship ?
Mr. OsMAN. I was put into the boat.
Senator Burton. Which would you rather have done?
Mr. OsMAN. You see it was rather dangerous to stop aboard.
Senator Burton. The Titanic was dangerous ?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes.
Senator Burton. So in your judgment it was safer to have gone in
the boat than to have stayed on the Titanic?
Mr. OsMAN. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Burton. That was when you left?
Mr, OsMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What did you think when the first boat was
launched ?
Mr. OsMAN. I did not tliink she was going down then.
Senator Burton. Did you carry any messages for any of the officers
around the ship ?
Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. All the seamen were taking the covers off and
fetting the falls run out. They stow all the falls on the inside of the
oats.
Senator Burton. Did the boat gear run off all right?
Mr. OsMAN. The gear worked all right in my boat.
Senator Burton. How many boats did you help load?
Mr. OsMAN. Three on the starboard side, one on the port, and then
I got in my own boat.
Senator Burton. Did the gear run all right in all cases?
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir.
ii ..w».«*«^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 543
Senator Burton. Was the gear all in the boat that should have
been; in your boat?
Mr. OsMAN. In my boat, so far as I know. I do not know whether
they were supplied with biscuits in my boat. I do not think they do
that for an emergency boat.
Senator Burton. Were there biscuits in your boat?
Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. There was water in the boat, but there were
no biscuits.
Senator Burton. Do you think if Ufe rafts had been on board you
could have launched those and saved any passengers ?
Mr. OsMAN. There was plenty of time left, sir.
Senator Burton. To have launched life rafts ?
Mr. OsMAN. Plenty of time.
Senator Burton. If you had had hfe rafts, then, in your opinion,
could you have saved some more passengers ?
Mr. OsMAN. We could have saved some more. If they had had
rafts and boats, they had time enough to save every soul aboard there.
Senator Burton. Which, in your judgment, are better, the rafts or
the boats, on a steamer of that size ?
Mr. OsMAN. Rafts are as safe as anything.
F. OSMAN.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 30th day of April, A. D. 1912,
[s£AL.] E. L. Cornelius, Notary.
Thereupon, at 6.16 o'clock p. m., the testimony before Senator
Burton was concluded.
TESTDEOHT OF EDWAKD WHBELTOV.
[TMimony taken separately before Senator Newlanda, on behalf of the Bubcommittee^]
The witness was duly sworn by Senator Newlands.
Senator Newlands. What-is your age and occupation ?
Mr. Wheelton. Twenty-eight years of age. I have been with the
White Star six years, as fu^t-class steward.
Senator Newxands. Go on, and in your own way state what
occurred on the steamer Titanic after the collision with the iceberg }
Mr. Wheelton. I had just come oflf watch. I went to bed. I
was awakened between 10 minutes to 12 and a quarter to 12 by a
shock. It felt as if it was the dropping of a propeller or sometmng
like that. I got out of bed. I liftea the port and I looked out of the
port. Everything was calm. It was very cold. I went to the door
of my room and spoke to some of the men, and then I got back into
bed again. I was roused next by some one shouting. "Water-tight
doors. I came outside. The order was, ''Get your life belts. Get
up to boat stations." I went back. I put my pants on over my
pajamas, put my slippers on, and my overcoat. 1 went down to the
deck. They were just getting away lifeboat No. 5 then. I assisted
in getting away lifeboat No. 5. I was ordered to the storeroom. I
went down to the storeroom. The way I went to the storeroom was
down B deck, along B deck. As I went along B deck I met Mr.
Andrews, the builder, who was opening the rooms and looking in to
see if there was anyone in, and closing tne doors ajgain. I went alon^
B deck and used what we call the accommodation staircase, which
644 TITASnO DISAfiXEB.
goes through the ship, and is used b^r the stewards. I went down to
the storeroom and I got a bottle of biscuits, and I carried them up to
the main dining room, through the reception room, up the main
ataircase. I got onto the deck; the boats had gone. Thej were
working at No. 7. I mean No. 5 had gone. I went to No. 7 and
assisted in lowering No. 7. I think it was No. 7.
Mr. Lowe told Im*. Ismay to get to hell out of it, because I was the
steward who stood back or Mr. Lowe. We worked at No. 7 and got
her down, and then No. 9. Mr. Murdock was there, and Mr. Ismay
stood up by all of the boats I saw get away. I walked along when No.
9 went, and Mr. Murdock, the firat officer, turned around. He sent
the assistant second steward down to A deck, and he said to me
** You go, too." He got hold of me by the left arm and he said, '* You
go, too." We went down to A deck. Number 11 boat was hanging
m the davits. We got into the boat. Mr. Murdock shouted ' ' Wom«i
and children first. " He was on the top deck then, standing by the
taffrail. We loaded the boat with women and children, and took
in a few of the crew. I think there were about — well, there were
eight or nine men in tlie boat, all together. That was including our
crew. I think there were one or two passengers, but I really could
not say.
I shouted to Mr. Murdock, ''The boat is full, sir." He said, ''All
2' Ijht." He said, " Have you got your sailors in ?" I said, " No, sir."
e told two sailors to jump into the boat. We lowered away.
Everything went very nice, very smoothly, until we touched the water.
We pushed away from the ship's side and had just a slight difficulty
in hoisting the afterblock. We were not there a minute. The sailor
got at the block and loosened the tackle. We pulled away from the
ship. We pulled away until we were about 300 yards away from the
ship. I looked around into the boat. I saw the boat was pretty well
crowded, because I had some little difficulty in rowing, because the
passengers were so close together, and I kept hitting my hands
against the passengers. We bent to our oars until the ship eventually
went down.
We rowed around and tried to get to the other boats, to get close
to them. We pulled toward a Ught, but we did not seem to get any
closer to it, until daybreak. A lady back of me complained of the
cold, and I took my coat off and gave it to her. We sighted the Car-
pcUhia and put the boat about and pulled toward her. We got along^
side the Carpathia and I made the rope fast on the offside of the life-
boat. That was hanging from the Carpathia, that rope, and I stood
by until the boat was unloaded and the officer shouted "Come up."
Senator Newlands. How many boats did you see loaded ?
Mr. Wheelton. They were lowering No. 5 when I left to go to the
storeroom, and I saw No. 7 and No. 9. I went away in No. 11, sir.
Senator Newlands. What was Mr. Ismay doing?
Mr. Wheelton. He was standing aft, sir (Mr. Murdock was stand-
ing forward), and he was going like this [indicating], *' Lower, lower,
lower," lowering the boats.
Senator Newlands. Who was ?
Mr. Wheelton. Mr. Ismay, sir. He stood right by the davit with
one hand on the davit and one hand in motion to the officer lowering.
Senator Newlands. Why was he motioning to the officer ?
ii w^^^..^^ 9*
XXTANZO DIEUBIEB. 545
Mr. Wheelton. That was to let him know how far he wanted him
to go. If you are lowering cargo or anything else — stores or anything
else-^that motion of the hand means to lower, and if the man stops
xnaking that motion with his hand that means to stop lowering.
Senator Newlands. He was regulating the lowering down to the
water ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How far off was the water at that time, from
the upper deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. It was pretty dark, but I should imagine it waa
about 70 or 75 feet.
Senator Newlands. So far as your observation went, were boats
No. 5, No. 7, No. 9, and No. 11 loaded?
Mr. Wheelton. As soon as I started — I did not see the finishing
of the loading of No. 5, because I was sent to the storeroom. I ar-
rived on the deck when No. 7 was lowered, sir.
Senator Newlands. How full was that loaded ?
Mr. Wheelton. It seemed to be pretty full. I could not estimate
the number of people, because we were looking this way, and you
could only see tne front line of the boat, like that [indicatmg].
Senator Newlands. How about No. 9 ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not say as to No. 9, sir.
Senator Newlands. How about No. 11; how many were in that
boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. I should say there were about 58, all told, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did these boats all take their load on the upper
deck; or did they take part of it there and part of it on lower decks?
Mr. Wheelton. No. 5 and No. 7 and No. 9 took their loads on the
top deck — the boat deck. No. 7 was lowered to A deck.
Senator Newlands. Did it take all of its passengers from A deck?
Mr. Wheelton, Yes; barring the two sailors that jumped from the
top when the chief officer told them to man the boat.
senator Newlands. Why did it take them there instead of on the
upper deck?
Mr. Wheelton. I believe they were assisting witli the tackle on
the top, these two sailors.
Senator Newlands. Why was your boat loaded, in the main, at
A deck instead of the upper deck %
Mr. Wheelton. I could not say, sir. All the women and children
were sent down, because a steward brought them down, sir.
Senator Newlands. Prior to that time had they been on the upper
deck?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many boats were left on that side when
you left ?
ilr. Wheelton. I could not say, sir. I think there were two.
Senator Newlands. Was Mr. Ismay still there ?
Mr. Wheelton. Mr. Ismay; tlie last I saw of liim was when we
sent No. 9 away. That was when I went down to A deck to No. 11
boat, sir. He stood there at the falls.
Senator Newlands. Did he do anything besides help regulate the
lowering of the boat?
Mr. Wheelton. He helped the women and children into the boat,
sir, and told the men to mr.ke way.
546 TJTAJSaO DIBABOSB.
Senator Newlands. What did he mean by making way ?
Mr. Wheelton. They were all standing round in a circle, and a
lady would come on deck, and he meant to make a gap so tnat she
could come through.
Senator Newlands. During that trip had there been any drill of
the men at the boats ?
Mr. Wheelton. Not as regards us. We are generally ordered
below to attend to meaR before leaving port.
Senator Newlands. Well, was there a drill the day you left port ?
Mr. Wheelton. There was a general muster, sir.
Senator Newlands. How long had the crew of that boat been
together ?
Mr. Wheelton. Not very long. But I had sailed with quite a
number of the men myself before that.
Senator Newlands. But how long had the crew of the Titanic
been together on that ship?
Mr. Wheelton. From the day we signed, sir. I think it was on a
Friday, sir.
Senator Newlands. The Friday before sailing?
Mr. Wheelton. The Friday before. We sailed on Wednesday, sir.
Senator Newlands. During that time was there any drill?
Mr. Wheelton. Not that I know of, sir.
Senator Newlands. What is customary regarding drill on steam-
ships— how often do they have drills ?
Mr. Wheelton. Every Sunday at sea.
Senator Newlands. Did you have a drill Sunday before the col-
hsion ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Why not ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not say, sir, unless it was the number of
steerage passengers — third-class passengers — that we had.
Senator Newi-ands. Why should that prevent you having drill ?
Mr. Wheelton. Because if we would all go to drill, meius would
not be ready for the passengers.
Senator iSiewlands. The crew, then, was taken from different
steamers belonging to the White Star Line service ?
Mr. Wheelton. Not only the Wliite Star, but other ships.
Senator Newlands. Other services ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were you assigned to any particular boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. What boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. No. 5, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many men were assigned to each boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. That I can not say, sir, because there are 500
sailors. I have never counted them
Senator Newlands. What class of men are assigned to the boats ?
Mr. Wheelton. So many firemen, so many sailors, so many quar-
termasters, and so many stewards, sir.
Senator Newlands. Are the stewards supposed to be oarsmen t
Mr. Wheelton. WeD, you see it is supposed to be a boat's crew
that is to assist in lowering as well as in rowing, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many constitute a boat's crew ?
Mr. Wheelton. That I could not say, sir.
it -.*...^*^ 9 9
TITAKIC DISABTEB. 54T
Senator Nbwlands. How many customarily constitute a boat's
crew?
Mr. Wheelton. About eight, I should say, sir.
Senator Newlands. Is that the number that is supposed to be
available in case of emergency ?
Mr. Whselton. I should say about 8 or 10, sir; a smooth night
like that.
Senator Newlands. How many were there on your boat f
Mr. Wheelton. I should say about eight or nine, sir.
Senator Newlands. Of the crew ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir; that included a passenger.
Senator Newlands. How many of the crew ?
Mr. Wheelton. I should say about eight.
Senator Newlands. How many men were there in addition to the
eight?
Air. Wheelton. One passenger, I think. Of course there might
have been another down below. We never looked for him. We never
looked anywhere around; we were attending to our business, sir.
We had no time to search around.
Senator Newlands. Was there any disorder while you were them 9
Mr. Wheelton. None whatever, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did there appear to be a scarcity of men mi
the upper deck to man these boats ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. When your boat was loaded, were there any
women and children left on the deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. Not one. The only trouble we had was with one
lady who would not get into the boat. We attempted twice to got
her in, and the last time I said to my friend helping me, ^'PuU her
in"; and we pulled her in.
Senator Newlands. Then she remained in, did she ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes; she remained in. She turned back the first
time and went away from the rail.
Senator Newlands. Who was in command of your boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. The quartermaster, I believe.
Senator Newlands. What was his name ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not tell you what his name was.
Senator Newlands. What was the name of the man passenger in
your boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not tell. I did not ask him.
Senator Newlands. Do you know the names of any of the ladies
in your boat ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir; I never made it my business to know
their names.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the captain during that time?
Mr. Wheelton. I did not, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the ship go down ?
Mr. Wheelton. I did, sir.
Senator Newlands. Could you see the passengers on the ship when
it went down ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not, sir.
Senator Newlands. When you left the ship where were the bulk
of the remaining passengers located ?
40475— FT 7—12 3
548 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Wheelton. There was no bulk at all, sir. They were scattered
aU around the deck.
Senator Newlands. What deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. There were a very few, only our own men, left on
A deck when the boat went down, sir.
Senator Newlands. As you went down to the deck below
Mr. Wheelton. I did not see any deck below, sir, because it is aU
closed in.
Senator Newlands. That would be B deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. We passed B, sir.
Senator Newlands. How about C deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. That was closed. There was none of those lower
decks at all
Senator Newlands. Where were the steerage passengers; did you
see any of them ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir, I did not.
Senator Newlands. There were about 1,500 passengers left on the
ship, or at least 1,500 people altogether? That is the fact, I believe.
Have you any idea what part of the ship they were in when you left
the ship ?
Mr. Wheelton. I think they were all around the ship, all over the
place.
Senator Newlands. Did your boat rescue any people in the water ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir; we never saw one.
. Senator Newlands. You rowed some distance from the TUanic
did you?
Mr. Wheelton. I should imagine about 300 yards, sir. That is
a rough estimate.
Senator Newlands. Did your boat make any effort to go back ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir. «
Senator Newlands. Was your boat fully loaded ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir. I thought so, sir; because it was rather
difficult in rowing. I kept catching the people with my ore.
Senator Newlands. How about waking up the passengers; whose
duty is it to do that when an accident of that kind occurs ?
Mr. Wheelton. The bedroom stewards'.
Senator Newlands. Were you a bedroom steward ?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you know whether they did wake them up ?
Mr. Wheelton. I believe so, sir; I could not say.
Senator Newlands . Do you know how many of the crew were saved ?
Mr. Wheelton. I have" read in the papers, sir. There were 210,
all told.
Senator Newlands. What proportion of those were women?
Mr. Wheelton. I think there were about 15.
Senator Newlands. How many women were there in the crew?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not tell you. There were stewardesses
and Turkish-bath attendants.
Senator Newlands. Do vou know the number?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did they number 50, do you think?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not say. No ; I do not suppose they would.
Senator Newlands. Out of a total of 750 who were saved, there
were 210 who belonged to the crew. How do you account for the fact
that so large a proportion of the people saved belonged to the crew ?
t( ».».^.*^ fy
TITANIC DISASTER. 549
Mr. Wheeltonj I would think, myself, the men took a chance and
jumped overboard and swam for it and were picked up by boats.
We nad very powerful swimmers aboard the ship. Some of the best
men I ever saw in the water were on that ship, sir.
Senator Newlands. But you saw no men who were saved in that
Mr. Wheelton. Not in our boat, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see them being taken into any other
boat?
Mr. Wheelton. No; it was too dark. I could not see, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see anything of either of the rafts or
collapsible boats?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir. We did not sight another boat until day-
break next morning. We saw the lights, but we did not get near
enough to them.
Senator Newlands. Did you see anything of Mr. CJlarence Moore
orMaj.Butt?
Mr. Wheelton. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you know them?
Mr. Wheelton. I did not, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you know Mr. Frank Millet ?
Mr. Wheelton. I did not, sir.
Senator Newlands. Have you given vour address ?
Mr. Wheelton. Norwood House, Beimore Road, Shirley, South-
ainpton, England.
Senator Newlands. How about the steerage passengers; did any
of them come up on the upper deck ?
Mr. Wheelton. Oh. yes; they could come up just as I did. When
I went to get the bottle of biscuits, I had to go right down to their
quarters for it. The storeroom lies below their quarters. There was
nothing to prevent me from going down to the storeroom.
Senator Newlands. Out of the 210 of the crew who were saved,
only 15 were women ?
Mr. Wheelton. I think about that number. I could not say.
Senator Newlands. Is there any particular point that you would
like to speak of, or anything in regard to the collision that you know
that you think you ought to tell ?
Mr. Wheelton. I would like to say something about the bravery
exhibited bv the first officer, Mr. Murdock. He was perfectly cool
and very calm.
Senator Newlands. And he was lost ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir; he was lost.
Senator Newlands. You were on the starboard side, were you ?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How many boats were on that side ?
Mr. Wheelton. I could not say just how many there were.
Senator Newlands. How many nad been lowered before you took
No. 11?
Mr. Wheelton. I believe the emergency boat had gone; No. 3 had
gone; No. 5 was going as I went to the storeroom; No. 7 had gone;
No. 9 had gone, and No. 11 — that was my boat.
Senator Newlands. That would make six boats?
Mr. Wheelton. Yes, sir.
Witness excused.
660 '^ TITANIC '' DDSASTBB.
TESTIMOHT OF W. H. TATLOB.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Newlands on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Newlands.
Senator Newlands. State your age and residence.
Mr. Taylor. Twenty-eight years old. No. 2 Broad Street, King-
land, Southampton.
Senator Newlands. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Taylor. Fireman, sir.
Senator Newlands. You were on the TUanicf
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Tell your story, from the time you shipped
until you got on the Carpatkia,
Mr. Taylor. I was asleep when the accident occurred, sir. The
alarm bell for accidents rang outside of our door. I went up on deck,
and could not see anytliing. I went down in our room again. I
stayed in the room about 10 minutes, and somebody reported that
there was water in No. 1 hatch. Then we packed our oags, took them
in the mess room, in the alleyway, to wait lor orders. Tne officer was
coining along the alleyway, and ordered us to put on life belts. The
life belts were on the deck, on the boat deck. They shoyed out No.
15 boat and I was ordered into it. The boat was pretty full. We
pulled a distance away from the Titanic, because we were afraid of the
suction, and we kept on pulling toward the light, with the other row-
boats. About half past 7 the next morning we boarded the Carpatkia,
Senator Newlands. You got in boat No. 15 ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you help load any of the other boats ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir. There was too mucn of a crowd on There
was a crowd aroimd them at the time. This boat was the only boat
that was in the blocks when I went on the deck.
Senator Newlands. Were you one of the men charged with the
duty of appearing when the lifeboats were ordered ?
Mr. Taylor. Not at that time, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you belong to the lifeboat drill f
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Had you eyer drilled on that steamer with the
lifeboat drill ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How often was it customary to haye such a
driU?
Mr. Taylor. The custom is to haye one on Sunday morning in New
York.
Senator Newlands. How about Southampton ?
Mr. Taylor. The firemen neyer see a boat in Southampton.
Senator Newlands. Take the ordinary fireman. How often would
he engage in boat drill ?
Mr. Taylor. Once a trip, sir.
* Senator Newlands. Were you a good oarsman t
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Had you been preyiously assigned to boat
No. 15?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
t( ..»_. ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 551
Senator NBWI4AND8. That was your place ?
Mr. Taylor, That was my place.
Senator Newlanbs. How many of the crew got in lifeboat No. 15 1
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you that, sir. 1 know there were six
ordered to ffet into the boat. If there were any more, I could not say.
Senator Newlands. How many passengers were in the boatt
Mr. Taylor. I never counted them. I never beard them counted.
Senator Newlands. Was the boat full ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many would it carry ?
Mr. Taylor. I suppose it would average about 40 to 45 in the boat.
Senator Newlands. Would not the boat carry more than that?
Mr. Taylor. I suspect they would carry more if they were put in.
Senator Newlands. Why did you not put in more?
Mr. Taylor. Because the officer ordered the boat to be lowered.
Senator Newlands. Did your boat stop to take passengers from
any other decks ?
Mr. Taylor. Only one deck to be filled up.
Senator Newlands. You filled up on what deck ?
Mr. Taylor. On the upper deck, or deck A; on the promenade
deck.
Senator Newlands. Is that the boat deck ?
Mr. Taylor. No ; the next deck.
Senator Newlands. You loaded there ?
Mr. TAYI.OR. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Where were you when the boat was first
lowered ?
Mr. Taylor. I was in the boat when the boat was lowered.
Senator Newlands. Did you get into the boat from the boat deck ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Then did the other members of the crew get
on there?
Mr. Taylor. At the boat deck.
Senator Newlands. And then it was lowered down to deck A ?
Mr. Tayix)r. That is correct, sir.
Senator Newlands. Then the passengers got on ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who was directing the passengers there ?
Mr. Taylor. A lot of stewards were around directing the pas-
sengers, and there was an officer up on the boat deck then, sir.
^nator Newlands. But he could not see these people down on
deck A, could he ?
Mr. Taylor. He was looking over to see who was getting into the
boats.
Senator Newlands. Did you see Mr. Ismay during that time ?
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. Did you know Mr. Ismay at that time ?
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. What officer was in charge on that side?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you what officer was in charge on that
side.
Senator Newlands. Who was in command of your boat ?
Mr. Taylor. A fireman.
Senator Newlands. What was his name ?
562 TITANIC DIBASTEB.
Mr. Taylor. Dimel.
Senator Newlands. How many women were in your boat ?
Mr. Tatlob. Quite a number; there were mostly women and
children in our boat.
Senator Newlands. Were there any male passengers in the boat t
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you remember how many t
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. They got on at deck A ?
Mr. Taylor. After the women and children were in.
Senator Newlands. Were there any other women and children on
deck A when you left there, at the time ?
Mr. Taylor. I never saw any.
Senator Newlands. Would you have seen them if they had been
there?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, if they had been there.
Senator Newlands. Do you remember who the passengers were ?
Mr. Taylor. No. They were third-class passengers. That is all I
know.
Senator Newlands. Were there any stewardesses ?
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. There were about 750 saved in all, including
the crew, were there not ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you how many were saved.
Senator Newlands. Do you know how many of the crew were
saved?
Mr. Taylor. I do not know how many of the crew were saved, but
I know there were 73 firemen saved.
Senator Newlands. How many firemen were there in all ?
Mr. Taylor. There were 84 firemen on each watch, including trim-
mers and aU
Senator Newlands. And how many watches were there ?
Mr. Taylor. Three watches.
Senator Newlands. That would be 252 firemen in all ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes; that is, not counting greasers. I do not know
how many ^easers there are in the engine room.
Senator Newlands. You say 73 firemen were saved ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How do you account for the fact that so many
of them were saved ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were many of them put into the boats ?
Mr. Taylor. Not that I know of.
Senator Newlands. Were any of them picked up in the water by
the boats ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes ; there were some.
Senator Newlands. Many ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you how many there were.
Senator Newlands. Were all the crew on your boat firemen ?
Mr. Taylor. There were some stewards in the boat, besides.
Senator Newlands. How many firemen and how many stewards
were there in your boat ?
Mr. Taylor. About six firemen. I could not teU you how many
stewards there were. I only saw three.
(t „, ^ 9 9
TITANIC DI6ASTEB. 553
Senator Newlands. About what proportion of your entire boat-
load was composed of men ?
Mr. Taylob. I believe eight, all told; oarsmen and a coxswain.
Senator Newlands. Did any of the male passengers row ?
Mr. Taylor. Only one that I know of.
Senator Newlands. When jjrour boat got away from the ship, where
were most of the passengers that were left and where were the mem-
bers of the crew tnat were left — in what part of the ship ?
Mr. Taylob. They were all on A deck, sir, on the oeck where we
lowered from; all that I could see.
Senator Newlands. Was it crowded ?
Mr. Taylob. Oh, there was a crowd, a big crowd around the boats^
Senator Newlands. Was the order and discipline good, or was there
disorder %
Mr. Taylob. The order was good, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did these passengers belong to all classes,
steerage as well as cabin passengers ?
Mr. Taylob. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were there any on B deck ?
Mr. Taylob. I could not tell you that, sir.
Senator Newlands. Or C deck %
Mr. Taylob. I could not tell you.
Senator Newlands. Could you not see ?
Mr. Taylob. I could not see, because we kept the boat off the ship,
to keep from rubbing down her side.
Senator Newlands. How far did you row from the ship immedi-
ately after getting into the water ' . . .
Mi. Taylob. ^out a quarter of a mile; or it might have been a bit
farther than that.
Senator Newlands. Toward the l^ht, you say %
Mr. Taylob. Yes; with the other boats.
Senator Newlands. Was there any order given to you to row for
that li^t ?
Mr. Taylob. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How did you come to row for that light ?
ifr. Taylob. I kept on rowing, sir.
Senator Newlands. Where was that light ?
Mr. Taylob. A tidy way away from us.
Senator Newlands. Was it on a ship ?
Mr. Taylob. I could not tell you.
Senator Newlands. Did that light disappear %
Mr. Taylob. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Was it 5 miles away, would vou think ?
iSr. Taylob. It was a good distance away; I could not tell you the
distance.
Senator Newlands. Did it appear to be the light of a ship ?
lifr. Taylob. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. You could not see the ship ?
Mr. Taylob. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. During that night, before the dawn came,
could you see any of the icebergs 1
Mr. Taylob. No, sir; not before the break of day.
Senator Newlands. Was it a clear night ?
Mr. Taylob. Pretty clear; yes, sir.
554 TITANIC DISASTSa.
Senator Newlands. There was no fog i
Mr. Tayloe. No fog at all.
Senator Newlands. Were the stars out t
Mr. Tatlob. Yes; it was a stany night.
Senator Newlands. How do you account for it that you could
not see the icebe^ ?
Mr. Taylor. We saw them at daybreak.
Senator Newlands. Why could you not see them at night ?
Mr. Taylor. They were too far away. We were pullmg toward
them all the time.
Senator Newlands. And then you got among them in the mom-
ingy when the day broke ?
Mr. Taylor, x es, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were there many of them ?
Mr. Taylor. We saw four.
Senator Newlands. Do you know in what direction you rowed ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. North, south, east, or west ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you. in what direction. We kept on
pulling, and that is all I do know.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the iceberg upon which the ship
struck ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir. I was asleep at the time.
S«iator Newlands. Were you very much disturbed by the col-
lision ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Have you been on other ships?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. For how many years ?
Mr. Taylor. Eight years now.
Senator Newlands. During that trip were there the same drills
and mustering of the crew that you have observed on other ships ?
Mr. Taylor. No. On other ships you go through a strict drill.
Senator Newlands. You go through a strict drill ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How often i
Mr, Taylor. Every Saturday afternoon.
Senator Newlands. Did you have any drill on Saturday after-
noon on the TUanicf
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. Do you know why ?
Mr. Taylor. No.
Senator Newlands. Is it always the case that they have drill on
Saturday afternoon on other ships 1
Mr. Taylor. On a majority ol other ships, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do the firemen take part in that drill i
Mr. Taylor. Oh, yes.
Senator Newlands. Does every man in a ship's crew have a place ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. In reference to what 1
Mr. Taylor. With reference to manning a boat, I suppose to take
charge of the boat and pull the boat away, if necessary.
Senator Newlands. There were about 800 of this crew, wei« th«re
not?
ii ._«.^.*^ 9f
nryiKic disaster. 655
Mr. Taylor. I suppose so, sir.
Senator Newlands. And there were about 20 boats ?
Mr. TAYLdfe. Twenty boats.
Senator Newlands. Do you think thafc every man in that crew was
assiCTed to a particular boat ?
Mr, Taylor. Every man was ordered to a boat.
Senator Newlands. Was ordered to a boat; but did each man in
that creW; throughout the whole 800, know where his place in a boat
was?
Mr. Taylor. Yes; because there is a boat list that goes up.
Senator Newlands. YiThat was the nature of that order that night
with reference to the boats ?
Mr. Taylor. All the orders we had was to get our life belts on and
go up on the boat deck.
Senator Newlands. And then were you expected, each of you, to
go to a boat?
Mr. Taylor. We were supposed to go to the boat that our name
was down for on the ship.
Senator Newlands. Were there very many of the crew there when
you went up ?
Mr. Taylor. We were all going up, what there was of us.
Senator Newlands. Would both dining-room stewards and bed*
room stewards be assi^ed to these boats ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. And all the enginemen ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. And the carpenters ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Every man had his place ?
Mr. Taylor. Every man had the number of his boat that he was
to go to.
^nator Newlands. On the port side they put in, on an average,
in each boat only about two men of the crew, and sometimes less.
How do you account for the fact that there were so few ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you, sir. I never went on that side
of the ship.
Senator Newlands. On the other side were there a larger number
of the ship's crew ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes; there were stewards, and all.
Senator Newlands. And they were waiting there to be assigned to
their places, were they ? They were waiting, expecting to he put
into the boats ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. But no man could get into a boat before he
was ordered in %
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who selected the men to go in the boats t
Mr. Taylor. The officer, sir.
Senator Newlands. You say you found water up to No. 1 hatch ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. What is No. 1 hatch ?
Mr. Taylor. It is in the bow end of the ship, sir.
Senator Newlands. How far down ?
Mr. Taylor. Right down to the bottom, sir.
656 TITANIC DIBASTBB.
Senator Newlands. Is there a compartment there ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. A very large one ?
Mr. Tayloe. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Is that the term applied to the first compart-
ment ?
Mr. Taylor. That is the first hold in the ship. That is the first
cargo space in the ship.
^nator Newlands. Does that hatch cover more than one com-
partment ? You know what a compartment is, do you not 1
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you remember wheUier in that hatch there
was only one compartment or whether two or three t
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you that, sir, because I never saw
down there.
Senator Newlands. How did you know there was water in No. 1
hatch ?
Mr. Taylor. Because we saw it come bursting up through the
hatches.
Senator Newlands. You were there all the time, were you ?
Mr. Taylor. I was in my bunk asleep at the time, and then when
we got called up again the water was still coming up through the
hatdies.
Senator Newlands. What is a hatch ?
Mr. Taylor. A grate that covers over the hold to save anybody;
to keep anybody from getting down.
Senator Newlands. Were you in the water?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did it reach you ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, afterwards. It went into our room afterwards.
Senator Newlands. How long was it in getting in there ?
Mr. Taylor. About three-auarters of an nour, sir.
Senator Newlands. How far was your room from the bottom of
the ship f
Mr. Taylor. I could not exactly tell you the distance.
Senator Newlands. What deck was your room on ?
Mr. Taylor. On the third deck.
Senator Newlands. From below ?
Mr. Taylor. From the top; counting from the top.
Senator Newlands. Where did that stand with reference to decks
A, B, and C.
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Newlands. It was below them, was it ?
Mr. Taylor. Our deck was lower than those decks, because you
came off of those decks down to the well deck.
Senator Newlands. Did you have a hammock or a bed, or what
did you have?
Mr. Taylor. I had a bunk.
Senator Newlands. What deck was that on ?
Mr. Taylor. On the third deck down.
Senator Newlands. How far did you say that was from the bot-
tom of the ship ?
Mr. Taylor. Twenty or thirty feet, I should say, sir.
<• . ^ 9}
TITANIC WSA8TEB. 557
Seuator Newlands. Did your boat make any effort to go back
and save the lives of the people struggling in the water ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Why not ?
Mr. Tatlob. Because a majority of them said 'TuU on/' because
of the suction.
Senator Newlands. You heard the cries of the people who were
in the water ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. How long did they last ?
Mr. Taylor. Ten minutes or a quarter of an hour, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you not think that people floating in that
water, with life belts on, would survive longer than a quarter of an
hour ?
Mr. Taylor. They may have survived longer, sir. I am only
just judging the time.
Senator Newlands. Was the water very cold ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, it was cold.
Senator Newlands. Your boat did not pick up anybody from the
water ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see any other boat pick up anybody ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see any firemen or any of the crew
juinp from the ship itself into the water ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you know whether any did so jump, prior
to your leaving the ship ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. What was the feeling among the crew as to
"whether the ship would sink or not ?
Mr. Taylor. A majority of them did not realize that she would
sink.
Senator Newlands. Was that ship regarded by the crew as an
unsinkable ship ?
Mr. Taylor. So they thought.
Senator Newlands. That was the feeling among the seamen ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir; that is so.
Senator Newlands. Regarding these great iron ships, with water-
tight compartments, that is the general feeling among the seamen,
is it?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. They feel safe on them ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Even although there are not enough boats to
accommodate all the crew and passengers?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir. •
Senator Newlands. Did you ever hear that matter discussed
among them ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Then how do vou know that that is the feeling t
Mr. Taylor. Because they were all skylarking and joking about it.
Senator Newlands. After the accident were they joking about it ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
658 TirANIO DISASTSSB.
Senator Newlands. If they had realized that there was serious
danger, there would have been a terrible scene there, would there not?
}£r. Taylor. Yes, sir; everybody would have been rushing for
their lives.
Senator Newlands. When you got on to the boat did you feel
that it was safer in the boat, or remaining on the ship ?
Mr. Taylor. I thought it was safer for us in the boat.
Senator Newlands. Why did you think so ?
Mr, Taylor. Because I saw her then going down by the nose.
Senator Newlands. Going down by the bow?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. You realized then that she was sinking ?
Mr. Baylor. After we got clear of her we could see her going down
by the bow.
Senator Newlands. But you did not realize that at the time you
got into the lifeboat ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir; I only thought we were getting in in case
there was an emergency.
Senator Newlands. Did you row all the time that night, until
dawn?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did ^rou row for any particular place ?
Mr. Taylor. No; no particular place.
Senator Newlands. Why did you keep rowing then ?
Mi. Taylor. We kept on puUing along to keep up with the other
boats, all the small boats bemg together.
Senator Newlands. Was there any particular boat leading ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see any other boat save any lives of
people who were in the water ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How far could you see on the water that night;
how far off could vou see another boat ?
Mr. Taylor. About 50 yards.
Senator Newlands. Could you see the boat itself, or could you
just simply determine it by its lights ?
Mr. Taylor. We could see the boats.
Senator Newlands. Did you talk with any of the lookout men ?
Mr. Taylor. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. What was the feeling amongst the crew as to
how that accident occurred ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you.
Senator Newlands. In which direction was that light ?
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you the directions.
Senator Newlands. But aU the boats were rowing for it ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. You were sure there was a light there ?
Afr. Taylor. We discerned a light. We saw a light in the distance.
Senator Newlands. Was that the case with all the boats ?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. They could not all have been deceived by it,
could they?
Mr. Taylor. I should not think so.
^i ..^^.««,^ f9
TITANIC DISAfiTER. 559
Senator Newlands. Were they cryiiig out to each other at all, as
to where the light was ?
Mr. Tatlor. No. They only asked one another where they were
at the time, that is all. They would just pass the remark wnether
thev were all there.
Senator Newlands. Were there any women in your boat who
had lost their husbands 1
Mr. Taylor. I could not tell you.
Senator Newlands. Was there much distress among the women
in your boat ?
Mr. Taylor. They were very cool.
Senator Newlands. Were the women in your boat first-class
passengers, second class, or third class 1
Mr. Taylor. They were third class. I do not know whether
there were any second class.
Senator Newlands. There were no third-class passengers t
Mr. Taylor. No.
Witness excused.
TESTIMOHY OF GEORGE MOOBE.
[TeBtiiBony taken separately before Senator Newlands on foxtail of the subconunittee.)
The witness was sworn by Senator Newlands.
Senator Newlands. State your age and residencel
Mr. Moore. Fifty-one years old; Graham Road, Southampton.
Senator Newlands. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Moore. Able seaman, sir.
Senator Newijinds. State what drills if any there were, when you
got on the Titanic j of the ship's crew, what their character was, and
^what occurred of any significance during your trip from Southampton
to the point of the collision.
Mr. Moore. We joined the ship on Wednesday morning, the 10th
of ^i*il; &nd had boat drill and proceeded at 12 o'clock. We called
at Cherbourg and Queenstown.
Senator Newlands. How many participated in that boat drill;
how many men took part in that boat drill ?
Mr. Moore. All the able seaman, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many were there ?
Mr. Moore. I could not say the exact number, but about 30 to 40.
Senator Newlands. How many boats did you haye out ?
Mr. Moore. Two, sir. We lowered two boats in the water.
Senator Newlands. Go on.
Mr. Moore. On a Sunday it came in rather cold, Sunday afternoon.
Sunday night about a quarter to 12 I was on the watch below and
turned in, and there was suddenly a noise Uke a cable running out,
like a ship dropping anchor. There was not any shock at all. About
10 minutes to 12 the boatswain came and piped all hands on the boat
deck, and started to get out boats.
Senator Newi^ands. What did that mean, that the entire crew was
to go up on the boat deck ?
Mr. Moore. All the able seamen.
Senator Newlands. Would that include firemen?
560 TITANIC 0ISASTEB.
Mr. Moore. It had nothing to do with firemen; only the two
watches, the port and starboard watches.
Senator Newlands. How many were there of them, about 40 ?
Mr. Moore. No; 13 in one watch and 12 in the other. Then there
was a man who used to work in the alleyway, and there were prom-
enade daymen, saloon daymen, and second-class daymen.
Senator Newlands. How many in all ?
Mr. Moore. How many able seamen ?
Senator Newlands. Yes.
Mr. Moore. There were 6 quartermasters, 6 lookout men, 13 in the
port watch, 12 in the starboard watch, and 7 day hands.
Senator Newlands. Do those men constitute the crews of the boats
in case of an emergency ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Are any others included ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who are the others ?
Mr. Moore. In emergency ?
Senator Newlands. les; are they the only men who are expected
to report when there is a call for the boats ?
Mr. Moore. When there is an order, *' Boat stations," everyone goes
to boat stations — ^firemen, stewards, and all are called. There is a list
showing where each man is to go. Eyery man in the ship has a fire
station and a boat station. But in a case of emergency, where there
is a man overboard or anything like that, it is only the watch on deck,
the boat's crew, that is called.
Senator Newlands. What was the call on this occasion, simply for
the boat's crew ?
Mr. Moore. So far as I can say, all the seamen from the forecastle
were ordered up to clear away the boats and to take oft the boat covers.
Senator Newlands. That would mean about 40 men would have
to go up there ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were any others expected to go up there on
that call — ^firemen or stewards ?
Mr. Moore. I can not answer for those; they do not come under
our department.
Senator Newlands. Very well. When this call came, do you think
the 40 men were there ?
Mr. Moore. Oh, yes ; they all went on the boat deck.
Senator Newlands. If there were 20 boats, that would make about
two men to a boat ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Is that considered sufficient ?
Mr. Moore. That is the rule generally, sir; two seamen to each
boat.
Senator Newlands. Very weD. Go on and tell what happened.
Mr. Moore. I went on the starboard side of the boat aeck and
helped clear the boats; swimg three of the boats out; helped to lower
No. 5 and No. 7. When we swung No. 3 out, I was tola to jump in
the boat and pass the ladies in. I was told that by the first officer.
After we got so many ladies in, and there were no more about, we
took in men passengers. We had 32 in the boat, all told, and then
we lowered away.
it ..«».«.**^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTER. 561
Senator Newlands. How many of those 32 were men and how
many women ?
Mr. MooBE. I could not say how many were women.
Senator Newlands. Can you tell how many men there were ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir; I could not say exactly.
Senator Newlands. How manjr seamen were in the boat 7
Mr. Moore. Two seamen were in the boat.
Senator Newlands. Do you recall whether there were five or six
men passengers besides t
Mr. Moore. Yes; there were a few men passengers; and there were
some firemen in the boat.
Senator Newlands. How many firemen ?
^Mr. Moore. I should say there were five or six firemen.
Senator Newlands. How did they get in the boat ?
Mr. Moore. After all the ladies and children that were about there
got in, I suppose anyone jumped in, then.
Senator Newlands. Wnat officer was there ?
Mr. Moore. The first officer, Mr. Murdock.
Senator Newlands. Did he tell these men to go in}
Mr. Moore. No, sir; he never told them. He ^ot all the women
and children in, and the men started to jump in; and when we thought
we had a boat full there, we lowered away.
Senator Newlands. You think there were five or six firemen in
the boat, do you %
Mr. Moore. Yes; I am sure of that.
Senator Newlands. Were there any stewards ?
Mr. Moore. No; not one steward.
Senator Newlands. Were there any engineers i
Mr. Moore. No; no engineers.
Senator Newlands. Any stewardesses ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. What officer did you have in the boat ?
Mr. Moore. No officer at all, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who took charge of the boat %
Mr. Moore. I took chaise of the boat.
Senator Newlands. You had the tiller %
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Why did you not take more than 32 in that
boat?
Mr. Moore. That is not up to me, sir; that was for the officer on
top.
Senator Newlands. Did vou not think at the time that it ought
to have been more heavily loaded %
Mr. Moore. It seemed pretty fuU, but I dare say we could have
t'ammed more in. The passengers were not anxious to get in the
^oats; they were not anxious to get in the first lot of boats.
^ Senator Newlands. What was your f eeUng at the time ?
1*^ Mr. Moore. I thought, myself, that there was nothing serious the
matter until we got away from the ship and she started settling *
down.
Senator Newlands. You would have been as well pleased to have
stayed on the ship as to get on the lifeboat ?
Mr. Moore. I would at that time, sir.
562 TITAJ$IIC DI8A8TES.
Senator Newlands. How soon after getting in the water did you
see that the ship was sinking ?
Mr. Moore. After we puUed a distance away, sir, you could see
her head gradually going down.
Senator Newlands. Where were the most of the passengers on
the ship at the time you left the ship and when you could see the
passengers ?
Mr. MooBE. When we started lowering the boats all I saw was
first-class ladies and gentlemen all lined up with their hfe belts on and
coming out of the saloon. I could not say what was on the after
part of the ship at all. There was a lot of space between the boats.
Senator Newlands. Where were the steerage passengers, do you
thmk ? •
Mr. MooBE. I could not answer that. I should say that they were
making for the boat deck as well.
Senator Newlands. There was nothing to prevent them from
coming up to any part of the ship, wfl& there ?
Mr. Moobe. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did they show any disorder 1
Mr. Moobe. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Was it your view that the ship was an unsink-
able ship ?
Mr. Moobe. That was the talk.
Senator Newlands. Was that the general idea of the crew on the
ship?
Mr. Moobe. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. You knew that there were not enough boats
to accommodate the entire crew and the passenger list ?
Mr. Moobe. I knew there were only 20 boats, and I knew they
would not carry all the people.
Senator Newlands. How many did you estimate a boat ought to
carry?
^fr. Moobe. Fifty or sixty in a boat.
Senator Newlands. And 50 in a boat would make 1,000, and 60 in
a boat would make 1 ,200 ?
Mr. Moobe. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. So all the crew knew that the boats were not
sufficient to carry all the passengers and crew off ?
Mr. Moobe. I suppose thoy did, sir.
Senator Newlands. But they regarded the ship as unsinkable f
Mr. Moobe. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who was the officer in charge on the starboard
side, where you loaded these boats ?
Mr. Moobe. Mr. Murdock was one. He was the only one I recog-
nized.
Senator Newlands. Did you know Mr. Ismay?
Mr. Moobe. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. He was not pointed out to you ?
Mr. Moobe. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you know any of the passengers on the ship
by name ?
Mr. Moobe. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did aU the women who went on your boat go
there willingly, or were some of them forced on ?
ti :.« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 563
Mr. Moore. They were not forced on at all. They all went of their
t>wn wnll.
Senator Newlands. Did any of the ladies on your boat come back
to the ship after being put into the lifeboat ?
Mr. Moore. Oh, no; we got clear of the ship as soon as we were
lowered in the water.
Senator Newlands. Did you take any passengers on your boat in
the water?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How far were you from the ship when it sank ?
Mr. Moore. I should say just over" a (quarter of a mile, sir.
Senator Newlands. You heard the cries of the people in the water,
(lid you not?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir; everybody heard that, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the ship go down ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. What was the appearance of the ship at that
point of tiftie ?
Mr. Moore. I saw the forward part of her go down, and it appeared
to me as if she broke in half, and then the after part went. I can
remember two explosions.
Senator Newlands. Did your boat make any effort to go back ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Why not ?
Mr. Moore. All the people in the boat wanted to get clear of the
ship. They did not want to go near her. They kept urging me to
keep away; to pull away from her. In fact, they wanted to get far-
ther aifray.
Senator Newlands. Did you make any effort to go back to the
ship ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Why did you not go back and attempt to rescue
some of the people who were sinldng ?
Mr. Moore. Well, sir, we were about a quarter of a mile away, and
the cries did not last long. I do not think anybody could live much
more than 10 minutes in that cold water. If we had gone back, we
would only have had the boat swamped.
Senator Newlands. Do you think it would have been swamped ?
Mr. Moore. Yes; if there were any alive. Five or six puUmg on
that boat's gunwales would no doubt have capsized the boat.
Senator Newlands. How long have you been at sea?
Mr. Moore. Seventeen years, sir.
Senator Newlands. Have you seen ice frequently?
Mr. Moore. No, sir. I do not generally come this way in the
wintertime. I go on the Bombay route.
Senator Newlands. Have you ever seen ice before?
Mr. Moore. Oh, yes; I have seen ice before.
Senator Newlands. Do you know whether it is customary for
ships to slow down when they know that ice is in the vicinity, or do
they keep on, relying upon their ability to steer clear ?
Mr. Moore. I think they go more to the southward when there
is ice.
Senator Newlands. How about slowing down?
Mr. Moore. I could not answer as to that.
40475— FT 7—12 4
564 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Newlands. What did you row for? To what point did
you row, or in what direction ?
Mr. Moore. We started to pull away in the boat. There was one
bright light away on the starboard bow, 2 or 3 miles away, I should
juclge.
Senator Newlands. And you rowed for that light?
Mr. Moore. Yes sir. While we were rowing we came on small
ice; you could see small ice in the distance.
Senator Newlands. That night; before dawn?
Mr. Moore. Yes; we got away from it.
Senator Newlands. i ou were surrounded by ice at dawn, were
you not?
Mr. Moore. Yes, at dawn.
Senator Newlands. Is it your idea that when the ship struck it
was near all this ice at that time ?
Mr. Moore. I could not say that, sir.
Senator Newlands. When you looked out that night after you
struck, did you see any iceberg ?
Mr. Moore. I never saw any ice at all until after we got away in
the boat.
Senator Newlands. Did you see very much then ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir; it did not look like much.
Senator Newlands. Was it high ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir; it was low.
Senator Newlands. But the ice you saw in the morning was high ?
Mr. Moore. Yes. There was ice all around in the morning.
Senator Newlands. Was it your idea that that ice haa floated
down in your direction, or did you think you had floated down into it ^
Mr. Moore. I believe the ice we saw in the morning was to the
northward of where the Titanic had gone down.
Senator Newlands. Do you think that ice had been to the north-
ward of the Titanicf
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. And was slowly coming down ?
Mr. Moore. Yes. There were lots of bergs around, and there was
a great field of ice, I should say between 20 and 30 imles long.
Senator Newlands. Solid ice ?
Mr. Moore. Yes. The stretch of ice was very low, but there were
also big beres.
Senator Newlands. Would it have been possible for a ship to
make its way among that ice ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. It would have had to avoid it altogether?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did the Carpathia have to exercise much care
in getting out of the ice?
Mr. Moore. When we went aboard the CarpcUhia there was ice all
around, and I beUeve after I got aboard we haa to steam all around it.
Senator Newlands. And was the ice to the northward of you then t
Mr. Moore. I could not sav, because I never knew the direction
the ship's head was.
Senator Newlands. Well, the ship soon took a direction toward
the southwest, did it not?
Mr. Moore. I could not say.
t< . ^„^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 565
Senator Newlands. It must have done so in order to go to New
York.
Mr. Moore. I should say it went to the westward, sir.
Senator Newlands. Then, were tliese icebergs to the north of your
sliip at that time, or the south ?
Mr. Moore. I couhi not sav. I do not know wliat the direction of
the ship was when she started steaming away.
Senator Newlands. Take that entire crew. Do you think that
entire crew was able to work together as well as if that ship had been
running for six months or a year?
Mr. aIoore. Yes, sir. I think they were all trained men, sir.
Tliev were all able seamen.
Senator Newlands. And they knew their business ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you think they could work together with
the same effectiveness
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. There were about 750, crew and passengers,
saved, and your boats were able to accommodate about 50 per boat,
which would make 1,000, or, at the rate of 60, 1,200. How do you
account for it that more were not saved ?
Mr. Moore. Well, I should say that in the first lot of boats that
wont away people were not eager to get in them. All the people
around about were put in the boat and they were lowered away, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were they urged to go in the boat?
Mr. Moore. They were told to come along and jump in, ladies and
children first.
Senator Newlands. When there were no more ladies and children,
were the men urged to get in ?
Mr. Moore. Anyone could jump in then, as far as I know, to fill
the boat up, to get it away.
Senator Newlands. How many could you safely lower to the
water, 70 feet below, in one of those boats; what would you regard as
a wise method of loading those boats from the boat deck ?
Mr. Moore. I should say from 30 to 40 people .
Senator Newlands. And then you would expect to take on more
when the boat got in the water?
Mr. Moore. We could have taken more, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you wait there at all, for people to offer
themselves, when you got down to the water?
Mr. Moore. No; we were told to go clear of the ship.
Senator Newlands. Were you given any instruction to pull in any
j>articular direction ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir. I think everyone pulled toward this white
light.
Senator Newlands. What did you think that light was at the time ?
Mr. Moore. I thought it was a fishennan. That is what I thought.
It was only just one smgle light.
Senator Newlands, Did that light disappear?
Mr. Moore, We kept pulling for it until daylight, and we could not
see a thing of it then.
Senator Newlands. Did you have this light in view all the time
while you were pulling at the oars?
Mr/MooRE. Yes, sir.
566 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Newlands. How far do you think you pulled from tlio
point where the ship went down ?
Mr. Moore. I could hardly say.
Senator Newlands. Dovou suppose you pulled as far as 10 miles ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir. We were going against the current.
Senator Newlands. Was there a current ?
Mr. Moore. I should say so, sir. We kept the boat's head to tho
wind. We kept going toward this white light.
Senator Newlands. You were sure that the light was there ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. It was a genuine light, you think ?
Mr. Moore. Yes; one bright light.
Senator Newlands. There were 750 saved, in all, and of them 210
belonged to the crew, and of the 210 about 15 were women, stewardesses.
How do you account for the fact that such a large proportion of those
people saved belonged to the crew ?
Mr. Moore. I can onlv account for the seamen being saved, two in
each boat. That would number just about the number of seamen
who were saved.
Senator Newlands. That would be about 40?
Mr. Moore. Yes; I think there were 39 saved.
Senator Newlands. How do you account for the 79 or 80 firemen
being saved ?
Mr. Moore. I could not answer as to that.
Senator Newlands. Did they rush into the boats ?
Mr. Moore. I do not think there was anv rush at all, sir. I think
a few were picked up in the water.
Witness excused.
TESTIMOmr OF THOMAS JONES.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Newlands on behalf of the subcommilteo. J
The witness was sworn by Senator Newlands.
Senator Newlands. Where do you live ?
Mr. Jones. No. 68 Nessfield Street, Livei'pool, England.
Senator Newlands. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Jones. Seaman.
Senator Newlands. Were you one of the boats^ cpw on tlio
Titanicf
Mr. Jones. Yes sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you have any drill of the boats' crew ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes.
Senator Newlands. On the Titanic?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. When ?
Mr. Jones. Before leaving Southampton, sir.
Senator Newlands. How often is it customary to have a drill of
the boats' crew ?
Mr. Jones. Every Sunday at sea, sir; and every time before we
start, sailing from port.
Senator ISewlands. Whv did you not have it on Sunday on thin
trip ?
Mr. Jones. I am sure I could not tell you, sir.
Ct }f
TITANIC DISASTER. 567
Senator Newlands. When you had this drill, were all the 40 or
more seamen in the drill?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes, sir; everybody was there, I suppose.
Senator Newlands. You had out only two boats, did you not ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; leaving Southampton.
Senator Newlands. The ntanic^s crew was taken off from a lot
of other ships, was it not ?
Mr. Jones. I believe so; yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Had many of them been working together
l)efore ?
Mr. Jones. I know I had been shipmate with a few of them before.
Senator Newlands. Do you thiuK the crew were as well trained in
their duties as they would nave been if that ship had been in service
for six months longer, at the end of that time ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes; we had a good crew.
Senator Newlands. Experienced men ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Was that true of tlie firemen as well as the
seamen ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; I knew a lot of the firemen.
Senator Newlands. It was a good crew ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes.
Senator Newlands. Do you tliink they could work together, in
case of trouble, iust about as well as any other crew ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Had you ever experienced ice before ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; the last iceberg I saw was about six years ago.
Senator Newlands. Had you been accustomed to taking this trip
before ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; I had been on the Majestic, I ran for six years
without missing one trip across, on her.
Senator Newlands. And you only saw one iceberg during that
time?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Wliat is the custom of the ship when ice is
reported ; do tliey generally slow down the sliip or do they rely upon
seeing the ice and steering clear of it?
Mr. Jones. I could not tell you that. That is the only one I saw,
sir.
Senator Newlands. And you had been on this course how many
years ?
Mr. Jones. About seven years altogether.
Senator Newlands. And you never saw but one iceberg before?
Mr. Jones. That is all.
Senator Newlands. Was that a large one ?
Mr. Jones. A very largo one.
Senator Newlands. Wliere did you see it?
Mr. Jones. Above the Newfoundland Banks.
Senator Newlands. At about the same time of the year ?
Mr. Jones. Yes; about the same time of the year. We could fe(»l
it hours before we saw it, it was that cold.
Senator Newlands. Did you feel the cold on tliis occasion ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; not very much. It was cold, I thought.
568 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Newlands. But it was not any colder than you would
expect ordinarily, even without icebergs ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; it was not that cold.
Senator Newlands. Well, was it as cold as it was upon this other
occasion that you speak of ?
Mr. Jones. No; not half as cold, because at that time I was on the
lookout in the crow's nest, and I could feel it a long time before I
could see it. It was in the daytime.
Senator Newlands. Were you one of the lookouts ?
Mr. Jones. Not on the Titanic; no, sir.
Senator Newlands. When vou have been acting as lookout, have
you been accustomed to use glasses ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; I have always seen them in the crow's nest.
Senator Newlands. When you were a lookout, were you accus-
tomed to use the glasses ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were they much of a help ?
Mr. Jones. Not much of a help to pick anything up; but to make
it out afterwards, they were.
Senator Newlands. You would first have to pick it up, and then
make sure of it by looking through the glasses ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were these glasses as useful at night as the^-
were in the daytime ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. You could not see with the same clearness ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Were they of any use at night?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; not of any use at all.
Senator Newlands. You would rather trust to your eyes at night
than trust to the glasses ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Have you ever known a crow's nest to be
without glasses?
Mr. Jones. No, sir. We always used to go to the office and get
them when we left the port, take them into tne crow's nest, and then
upon arriving at port again, take them into the office. I never saw
a crow's nest without glasses.
Senator Newlands. Were they always in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Jones. No; we would go to the office for them. There is no
place to keep them in the crow's nest. Somebody might steal them
there, and so we would take them to the office.
Senator Newlands. And they would remain, then, in the crow's
nest during the trip ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many years were you a lookout?
Mr. Jones. About 12 months in the Majestic, and I was on the
Oceanic before I joined this ship, on the lookout on the Oceanic.
Senator Newlands. Is that a very trying position?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes; we have to pass an examination for it.
Senator Newlands. You have an examination for it, a test of
your eyes ?
Mr. Jones. Yes; by the board of trade.
<i ».». ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 569
Senator Newlands. I suppose you get the practice from experi-
ence?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you ever know a man to go to sleep when
on the lookout ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, no.
Senator Newlands. Are there generally two together, or only one ?
Mr. Jones. Two together.
Senator Newlands. When they speak of doubling the lookout,
iw'hat do they mean ?
Mr. Jones. That is, we look out on the forecastle head.
Senator Newlands. Where is that ?
Mr. Jones. That is at the bow of the ship.
Senator Newlands. Is that a better place for it than the other ?
Mr. Jones. They generally put a man there when it is too foggy;
an extra lookout.
Senator Newlands. Would they put a man there on such a night
as the night when this coUision occurred ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do they generally put an extra lookout on
the forecastle?
Mr. Jones. On the forecastle head; yes, sir. When it is calm
weather, in a fog, you can go out on the forecastle head, but when it is
rough, a man can not stay there, because the ship is taking too much
sea. Then he is sent up on the bridge to keep a watch out.
Senator Newlands. Was that night such a night as to require an
extra lookout ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, no.
Senator Newlands. Do they have only one man on the forecastle
head?
Mr. Jones. One man.
Senator Newlands. Then, in addition to that, they have the two in
the crow's nest ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. How far is the crow's nest from the forecastle
head?
Mr. Jones. It would vary according to the size of the ship.
Senator Newlands. I am referring to the Titanic.
Mr. Jones. I could not tell you. I was never in the crow's nest
there.
Senator Newlands. Do you suppose it would be a hundred feet ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. It is higher up than the bridge.
Senator Newlands. I mean, from tne crow's nest to the forecastle
deck is how far ?
Mr. Jones. I could not tell you the distance exactly.
Senator Newlands. State what occurred on the night of the col-
lision. State where you were when you felt the collision.
Mr. Jones. I was sitting in the forecastle. I heard something, just
the same as a ship going through a lot of loose ice; and everybody ran
on deck right away. When we went on deck we could see some ice on
the deck. Then 1 went forward, and I could see a lot of the firemen
coming up out of the forecastle ; and I looked down below, and I heard
a rush of water. I went down below, in No. 1, and I could see the
a ,.^^. ^^^^ ff
570 TITANIC DISASTER.
tarpaulin of the hatch lifting up the same as if there was air coming
up there; and I went on deck then, and I could see all the firemen
coming up from there. As soon as I went on deck somebody gave
the order, *' All han(b on the bridge." I went up there, and then we
were given orders to get the boats ready.
I got the collapsible boat on the port side ready. I got my own
boat, No. 8, ready. An officer sent me for a lamp, and ssl was going
forward there was a man coining with two or three lamps in his hand.
I went back again, and this No. 8 boat was there, all swung out, and
there were about 35 ladies in it. I jumped in the boat. The captain
asked me was the plug in the boat, and I answered, "Yes, sir." "All
right," he said, "Any more ladies ?" There was one lady came there
and left her husband. She wanted her husband to go with her, but
he backed away, and the captain shouted again — ^in fact, twice again —
"Any more ladies ?" There were no more there, and he lowered away.
Senator Nbwlands. Did this lady get in ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, her and a little gin. I don^t know who she was.
I don't know her name. He told me to row for the light, and land the
passengers and return to the ship. I pulled for the light, and I found
that I could not get near the light, ana I stood by for a little while. I
wanted to return to the ship, but the ladies were frightened, and I had
to carry out the captain's orders and pull for that light; so I did so.
I pulled for about two hours, and then it started to get daybreak, and
we lost the light; and then all of a sudden we saw the Carpathia corn-
ing, and we turned right back and made for the Carpathia. That is
all I know, sir.
Senator Newlands. Who was the officer on the port side who gave
you your directions ?
Mr. Jones. The captain.
Senator Newlands. The captain himself ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. How manv, in all, were there in your boat ?
Mr. Jones. I had 35 ladies and one sailor besides myself, and two
stewards ?
Senator Newlands, Why did you not take more on ?
Mr. Jones. I don't know, sir. There were no more women to
come in, they would not leave.
Senator Newlands. Then why did you not take some men?
Mr. Jones. That is what it was; there was nobody ready to come
in the boat, and they started lowering it down.
Senator Newlands. Did any men offer to get in the boat?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. How many men do you regard it as safe to
load in a boat of that kind from tne upper deck, the boat deck ?
Mr. Jones. According to what sort of falls there are. With good
ropes you could take 50 or more.
Senator Newlands. Fifty or more people ?
Mr. Jones. Yes.
Senator Newlands. Would there be any danger of the boats
buckling ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, no, sir.
Senator Newlands. And you think you could have taken in 50 ?
Mr. Jones. Easy enough, sir.
ft -^»,.^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 571
Senator Newlands. Those boats are supposed to accommodate 60,
are they not ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Or 65 ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Woidd that crowd them ?
Mr. Jones. Oh, no. They were floating quite light, with what we
had aboard.
Senator Newlands. After you got down to the water's edge, how
do you account for the fact that more men were not put in, more
passengers ?
Mr. Jones. If they had been down there we could have taken them.
Senator Newlands. As you passed down from the boat deck, were
there any open decks there from which you could have taken passen-
gers?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; all the windows were closed.
Senator Newlands. There were no windows on deck A, were there ?
Mr. Jones. I do not know what thev call the different decks.
There were big square windows, but where we went down, there
were rooms there.
Senator Newlands. Did you go down from the boat deck ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. And the passengers got on there ?
Mr. Jones. Yes; right from tne boat deck.
Senator Newlands. When your boat left, were there many
women and children left on the ship ?
Mr. Jones. I did not see any children, and very few women.
There was an old lady there ana an old gentleman, and she would
not come in the boat.
Senator Newlands. Had she got in the boat ?
Mr. JoNi^s. No; she would not come near the boat.
Senator Newlands. What did she say ?
Mr. Jones. She never said anything. If she said anything we
could not hear it because the steam was blowing so and making such
a noise.
Senator Newlands. There was a great deal of noise?
Mr. Jones. Oh, yes.
Senator Newlands. Did you see the first officer there ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; I saw him running around there.
Senator Newlands. Who was he ?
Mr. Jones. I do not know his name. There was the chief officer
and the first officer. I had never been with these people before.
Mr. Wilde was the chief officer.
Senator Newlands. Did you know Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you see him ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newxands. When you got on the boat did you think
the ship was sinldng ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; I would not beUeve it. *
Senator Newlands. You thought the ship was unsinkable, did
you?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; I thought so.
Senator Newlands. Was that the view of the crew, generally ?
572 TITANTC DISASTEB.
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Newlands. Did you think at that time it would be as safe
to stay on the ship as to go in the boat ?
Mr. Jones. I thought tney were only sending us away for an hour
or so, until they got squared up again.
Senator Newlands. Until tney got what?
Mr. Jones. Until they got her pumped out.
Senator Newlands. Can you give me the names of any passengers
on your boat ?
Mr. Jones. One lady. She had a lot to say, and I put her to steer-
ing my boat.
Senator Newlands. What was her name?
Mr. Jones. Lady Rothe. She was a countess or something.
Senator Newlands. Was her husband on the boat ?
Mr. Jones. No; I believe her husband was in New York.
Senator Newlands. Do you know the names of any other passen-
gers?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Do you know the man who was the lookout ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; I only knew him by sight.
Senator Newlands. There were 750 people saved in all, and of
them about 210 belonged to the crew and 15 of them were steward-
esses. How do you account for so large a number of the crew being
saved as compared with the number of passengers?
Mr. Jones. I could not explain that, sir.
Senator Newlands. You saw no men throw themselves from the
ship?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. Can you tell me anything that indicated that
the crew of the ship felt that the ship would not sink ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. Tlie firemen brought up their bundles, not
because they thought the boat was going to sinlc, but because they
wanted to take them out of the water, as the water was coining in.
Senator Newlands. They were confident that the ship woind not
go down ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; the last I saw of them they thought so — that
it would not sink.
Senator Newlands. And about how many boats were left on the
port side when you got on your boat ?
Mr. Jones. Two more after my boat, on my side.
Senator Newlands. Just as soon as you got to the water, did you
realize that it was a serious matter, then ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Newlands. Did you not see then that the boat was sinking
by the bow ?
Mr. Jones. When I saw the water coming up to the forecastle
head I made sure she was going down, or something was going to
happen.
Senator Newlands. Did you yourself feel that the ship was in
danger ? '
Mr. Jones. I felt so then ; I did not believe it before.
Senator Newlands. You saw that at the very first, did you not,
after you got out in the lifeboat ?
Mr. Jones. No; she took a long time before the water got there.
f t — — . •••^ 9 >
TITANIC DISASTER. 573
Senator Newlands. That was when you were in your boat ?
Mr. Jones. Yes; after we went away from the ship.
Senator Newlands. Is there anything else you would like to say
in regard to the matter ?
Mr. Jones. No; I think not, sir; I have nothing more to say.
Witness excused.
The taking of testimony before Senator Perkins was begun at 5.30
o'clock p. m.
TESTIMOHT OF G. STMOVS.
[TeBtimony taken before Senator Perkins on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Mr. Symons was sworn by Senator Perkins.
Senator Perkins. Where is your home port ?
Mr. Stmons. Weymouth.
Senator Perkins. Weymouth, England ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Were you a sailor on the steamer TiUinie that
went down ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. How long have you followed the sea ?
Mr. Symons. Eight and a half years.
Senator Perkins. As a sailor man ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Tell me, in a general way, what happened when
the ship went down, and when she was struck ?
Mr. Symons. I was on the watch below at the time. I was asleep
at the time the Titanic was struck.
Senator Perkins. It was your watch hour below, ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
I came on deck and I saw the ice, and then I dressed myself and
waited.
Senator Perkins. Wluch watch were you in on the ship ?
Mr. Symons. I was on the lookout on the 8 to 10 watcn. I came
off at 10 o'clock.
Senator Perkins. Were you one of the six lookout men ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. After she struck the iceberg you were in the
bunk below ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Was there much vibration to the ship ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; nothing to speak of, I thought. It was only
a slight jar; a grinding noise.
Senator Perkins. You state that when you came on deck there
was ice on the forecastle of the Titanic?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir; on the starboard side.
Senator Perkins. Was there any quantity of it ?
ifr. Symons. Not such a ^reat quantitv, sir.
Senator Perkins. You did not think any serious injury had
occurred to the ship ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. After that, what did you do ?
Mr. Symons. I was ordered up to the boats by the boatswain.
Senator Perkins. You were ordered up to which boats ?
574 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Symons. To the starboard boats. I went to No. 3 first. From
there we unstripped the covers right down through.
Senator Perkins. Who had charge of the boat ?
Mr. Symons. No. 3 ?
Senator Perkins. Yas.
Mr. Symons. I could not say.
Senator Perkins. Was it one of the quartermasters ?
Mr. Symons. I believe it was, sir. I could not say for certain. I
do not know.
Senator Perkins. Did you stay by the boat and go in her ?
Mr. Symons. I stayed by the boats. I helped lower No. 3. From
there I was sent down to No. 5.
Senator Perkins. How many were in the boat when she was
lowered ?
Mr. Symons. I could not say for certain.
Senator Perkins. Approximately, how many? Were there 10
or 20?
Mr. Symons. I should say, roughly, about 40, sir.
Senator Perkins. There were 40 in the boat when she was swing-
ing in the davits ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir; when she was hanging in the davits.
Senator Perkins. Who handled the falls of the boat ?
Mr. Symons. I handled the forward fall. I could not say who
handled the after fall.
Senator Perkins. How were those boats detached from your
tackle ? Did you have a patent hook on your boat ?
Mr. Symons. We had tne patent levers; one in the bow and one
in the stem.
Senator Perkins. Yes. Did they work simultaneously?
ifr. Symons. Yes; they worked together.
Senator Perkins. Were you in your boat?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; I just helped lower it.
Senator Perkins. Then you went to what other boat ?
Mr. Symons. I was sent to No. 5, and assisted there. I cleared
the fall.
Senator Perkins. Did you get in her?
Mr. Symons. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. What boat did you go from the ship in ?
JVfr. Symons. No. 1.
Senator Perkins. Who was in command of her ?
Mr. Symons. I was.
Senator Perkins. How many passengers did you have on her ?
Mr. Symons. From 14 to 20.
Senator Perkins. Were they passengers or crew ?
Mr. Symons. They were passengers. At first they put in seven of
the crew. There were seven men ordered in; two seamen and five
firemen. They were ordered in by Mr. Murdock.
Senator Perkins. How many did this boat carry ?
Mr. Symons. I could not say for certain. It was one of the small
accident boats.
Senator Perkins. After she got into the water, would she take
any more ?
Mr. Symons. She would have taken more.
Senator Perkins. How many did you have, all told ?
€t «^«.^,,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 575
Mr. Symons. I would not say for certain. It was 14 or 20. Then
we were ordered away.
Senator Perkins. You did not return to the ship again ?
Mr. Symons. Yes; we came back after the ship was gone, and we
saw nothing.
Senator Pebkins. Did you rescue anyone that was in the water?
Mr. Symons. No, s\v\ we saw nothing when we came back.
Senator Pebkins. Was there any confusion or excitement among
the passengers ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; nothing whatever. It was just the same as
if it was an every-day affair.
Senator Perkins. Was there any rush to get into either one of
these boats ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; I never saw it. I never saw any rush what-
soever.
Senator Perkins. Did you hear any cries of people in the water ?
Mr. Symons. Oh, yes, sir; I heard the cries.
Senator Perkins. Did you say your boat could take more? Did
you make any effort to get them ?
Mr. Symons. Yes; we came back; but when we came back we did
not see anybody nor hear anvbody.
Senator Perkins. Then wnat did you do after that ?
Mr. Symons. After we rowed around, we rowed around and picked
up with another boat, and both stuck together; one boat with a lot
01 people.
senator Perkins. Did you pass a painter from one boat to another ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; we went close to her. They did not want
any assistance, as the women were pulling. I asked if they wanted
any assistance, and they would not take it. They said they could
pull through.
Senator Perkins. Your boat could have accommodated more?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. How many more, probably?
Mr. Symons. I should say that she could have accommodated,
easily, 10 more.
Senator Perkins. And you made no effort to fill her; and you were
in charge of her ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir; I was. I was ordered away by Mr. Mur-
dock, the first officer. He ordered the boat to be lowered.
Senator Perkins. But you did not pull back to the ship again ?
. Mr. Symons. Not until she went down, sir.
Senator Perkins. Then you went and pulled over to the ship.
Where did you go after that ?
Mr. Symons. After she got down, I went around to one of the
other boats, and found she never had a sailor in her, and I accompanied
that boat.
Senator Perkins. How many sailormen did you have in your boat ?
Mr. Symons. Two.
Senator Perkins. And no others of the crew; no firemen or
stewards ?
Mr. Symons. No stewards whatever, sir.
Senator Perkins. And no firemen or coal passers ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir; five firemen. They were put in by Mr.
Murdock.
576 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Perkins. Before she was lowered from the davits ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. When were you on the lookout ?
Mr. Symons. From 8 to 10, sir.
Senator Perkins. Did you discover any icebergs?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; we had the order at 9.30 from Mr. Lightoller
to keep a sharp lookout for ice, and we passed it on at 10 o'clock.
Senator Perkins. Were you in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Symons. Yes.
Senator Perkins. It was a perfectly starlight night, and clear ?
Mr. Symons. Yes; it was a very clear night.
Senator Perkins. How was the sea?
Mr. Symons. It was calm, sir.
Senator Perkins. You went from the crow's nest, after you struck
the iceberg, and went down and reported to Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Symons. When I came from the crow's nest I went to my
bunk and turned in, because it was my watch below from 10 to 2.
Senator Perkins. Where were you when she struck the iceberg ?
Mr. Symons. I was asleep, sir.
Senator Perkins. You came on deck immediately?
Mr. Symons. Yes.
Senator Perkins. Then were you assigned to anv particular boat i
Mr. Symons. My name was put in for No. 1. I went into No. 1,
and from there I went to the other boats.
Senator Perkins. After the lowering; when you had assisted in
lowering the other boats ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir; after I had assisted in lowering the other
boats, then I was ordered in my own boat.
Senator Perkins. You say you made no attempt to save anv other
people after you were ordered to pull away from the ship oy Mr.
\furdock?
Mr. Symons. I pulled off, and then came back after the ship had
gone down.
Senator Perkins. And then there were no people there ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; I never saw any.
Senator Perkins. Is there any other incident that you wish to
state that would be of interest to the public ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; not that I know of.
Senator Perkins. I would rather j^ou would make the statement
without any particular questions. \ ou say there was no confusion,
no excitement ?
Mr. Symons. None whatever, sir; it was just the same as if it was
an everyday occurrence.
Senator Perkins. Where was the captain at this time ?
Mr. Symons. The last I saw of him he was on the bridge, sir. That
was just before I went away in boat No. 1.
Senator Perkins. Mr. Murdock was the first officer?
Mr. Symons. Yes; he was in charge of the lowering of the boat.
Senator Perkins. The captain was on the bridge ?
Mr. Symons. The last I saw of him; yes, sir.
'^ TITANIC " DISASTER. 577
TESTIMOlfT OF O. A. HOGG.
[Testimony taken before Senator Perkins on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Mr. Hogg was sworn by Senator Perkins.
Senator Perkins. Where is your home port ?
Mr. IIoGG. Hull, near Yorksnire.
Senator Perkins. How long have you followed the sea ?
Mr. Hogg. About 13 years, sir.
Senator Perkins. In what capacity ?
Mr. Hogg. As a sailorman.
Senator Perkins. Have you been quartermaster or boatswain ?
Mr. Hogg. I have been quartermaster in six boats. I was mate on
the White Star Line; lookout man, boatswain's mate.
Senator Perkins. Were you on the ship's articles as the lookout
man in this case ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. What watch were you on ?
Mr. Hogg. My watch was from 12 to 2, sir.
Senator Perkins. Were you in the crow's nest when the vessel
struck the iceberg?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. What time did she strike this iceberg ?
Mr. Hogg. I woke up about 20 minutes to 12.
Senator Perkins. You were in your bunk at that time ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Did you turn out?
Mr. Hogg. I turned out, with the confusion in the forecastle.
Senator Perkins. What boat were you assigned to ?
Mr. Hogg. No 6 was my boat.
Senator Perkins. By the way, I will ask you this first: After
leaving Southampton you were divided into watch and watch; and
then tne detail of the lookouts was also made, was it not ?
Mr. Hogg. I signed on the ship as a lookout man.
Senator Perkins. You did ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. You received £5 a month and 10 shillings
extra ?
Mr. Hogg. Five pounds a month and 5 shillings extra, sir.
Senator Perkins. And 5 shillings extra, for a lookout man ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Tell us, in your own way, what happened next,
after the ship colUded with the iceberg.
Mr. Hogg. I waked up, at 20 minutes to 12, with the confusion
in the forecastle. I rushed up on the deck, and I saw there was not
much confusion on deck, and I went below again, with some of my
shipmates.
1 asked the time, then, of my mate Evans, and he said, "It is a
quarter to 12. We will get dressed and get ready to go on the
lookout."
Senator Perkins. Go on and tell us, in your own way, just what
happened.
Mr. Hogg. Very good, sir. I have started it, right now.
578 TITANIC ^' DISASTER.
I dressed myself, and we relieved the lookout at 12 o'clock, me
and my mate Evans.
We stopped about 20 minutes, and lifted up the back cover of
the nest, the weather cover, and I saw people running about with
life belts on.
I went to the telephone then, to try to ring up on the bridge and ask
whether I was wanted in the nest, when I saw this. I could get no
answer on the telephone. Also my mate
Senator Perkins. Who was your shipmate ?
Mr. Hogg. My shipmate was a man by the name of Evans, sir.
He has gone home.
Senator Perkins. Go ahead; continue to tell your story, as to
what boat you went to, and what happened.
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
I went straight on the boat deck. I assisted in starting to uncover
the boats. Then I was sent for a Jacob's ladder.
Senator Perkins. You have not said to what particular boat you
were assigned ?
Mr. Hogg. No. 6 was my proper boat; what I signed for.
Senator Perkins. As to this Jacob's ladder: Did you put it over
the side and go down that ?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. Who sent you for the Jacob's ladder?
Mr. Hogg. The boatswain. 1 was told to drop it. As I got past
the No. 7 boat on the starboard side, Mr. Murdock, chief officer, said :
' *See that those plugs are in that boat." I put the plugs in, and i said :
^'The plugs are all correct," and I jumped out agam.
Senator Perkins. Who lowered away at the falls ?
Mr. Hogg. I jumped out to assist with the falls; and he said:
^*You step in that boat." I said, '^Very good, sir." Mr. Murdock
lowered one end, and I am trying to think of the man that lowered the
other end. Evans lowered the other end.
Senator Perkins. How many people were in this other boat at
this time, when it was hangmg m the davits?
Mr. Hogg. As soon as I unhooked her, I mustered her people
to see how many I had. I must have had 42.
Senator Perkins. While she was hanging in the davits ?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir; when I shoved away.
Senator Perkins. When you shoved her from the ship's side ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. This was on the port side ?
Mr. Hogg. On the starboard side, sir. I asked a lady if she could
steer, and she said she could. I said: ** You may sit here and do this
for me, and I will take the stroke oar."
I pulled a httle way from the ship, about a quarter of a mile, I
should think, sir. I went alongside another boat — I can not think of
the number of the boat now, sir — and they transferred some of the
passengers to my boat.
Senator Perkins. You had how many, all told, then ?
Mr. Hogg. I think they transferred four ladies and a baby and one
gentleman — I think it was — as I wanted an extra gentleman for oar
pulling.
Senator Perkins. That made, all told, how manv?
Mr. Hogg. About 47, and the ladies objected to having those men.
<( -^»..*,,« 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 679
Senator Perkins. This was one of the lifeboats, was it ?
Mr. Hogg. It was one of the big ones; yes.
Senator Perkins. She is measured to carry 65 people, is she not ?
Mr. Hogg. I could not answer that, sir. I did not know at the
time what they were capable of carrying.
Senator Perkins. She rode the sea cleverly ? It was smooth,
tliough.
Mr. Hogg. It was very, very smooth, sir. The sea was very
smooth.
Senator Perkins. Of your own iudgraent as a sailor man, would
vou have permitted any more people to get into the boat if they had
T>een alongside of you ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. You were ordered to pull away from the ship ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir; I was ordered to pull awav from the ship for
safety, for the time being. One lady said I should, not take any more
in that boat. I said: '*I will take all I can get.'*
Senator Perkins. Go on with your story. Tell us the balance of
that.
Mr. Hogg. I stopped alongside those two. As soon as she went
down, I went to try to assist them in picking up anybody if I could.
I met another boat on my way, and they said to pull away. Thev
said: "We have done all in our power and we can not do any more.
I can not remember the number of the boat or who the man was who
spoke to me. I laid off, then, until I saw the lights of the Carpathia,
Senator Perkins. But you pulled around in search of other people ?
Mr. Hogg. I pulled around in search of other people before I could
pull to the wrecK. One man said: "We have done our best. There
are no more people around. We have pulled all around." I said:
''Very good. We will get away now."
Senator Perkins. And you were then within about half a mile of
the Titanic?
Mr. Hogg. About that, sir.
Senator Perkins. From what quarter was the wind drawing then ? .
Mr. Hogg. I did not exactly take notice, sir.
Senator Perkins. Was it cold ?
Mr. Hogg. It was bitter cold.
Senator Perkins. There was quite a ripple on the water ?
Mr. Hogg. Not a ripple on the water, sir. It was as smooth as glass.
Senator Perkins. After that, what did you do ?
Mr. Hogg. I saw the lights of the Cwrvathia, I said: ''It is all
right, now, ladies. Do not grieve. We are picked up. Now,
fentlemen, see what you can do in pulling these oars for this light."
t was practically daylight then. Tnen the passengers could see for
themselves that there was a ship there. I pulled up and went along-
side, and I assisted in putting a bowline around all the ladies, to haul
them up aboard. After I saw all aboard the boat, me and my friend
went aooard, and I put some blankets around myself and went to
sleep.
Senator Perkins. After this accident happened, you pulled away,
ami did all you could to save life ?
Mr. Hogg. I thought of suction, first.
Senator Perkins. Yes. I understand that you did not think the
ship was mortally hurt ?
40475— FT 7—12 5
680 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Hooo. I did not think so at the time, sir, or I should not have
remained in the position I was in.
Senator Perkins. Did you see the Titanic disappear?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. What was her position when she went down?
Mr. Hogg. She seemed to go down by the head, sir.
Senator Perkins. At an angle of how many degrees ?
Mr. Hogg. Oh, her stern was well up in the air as she went down.
Senator Perkins. You are a sailor man of a great deal of experience.
In your opinion was everything done that could have been done to
save life and property for the officers and men on that ship ?
Mr. Hogg. Everything was done, as far as I can see, sir. Every-
body did their best, ladies and gentlemen and sailormen.
Senator Perkins. Was there any other incident that you can think
of that would be of interest to the public ?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir.
TESTIMOKY OF WALTES JOHir PEBKIS.
[Testimony taken before Senator Perkins on behalf of the subcommittee.]
Mr. Perkis was sworn by Senator Perkins.
Senator Perkins. What is vour home port ?
Mr. Perkis. In the town of Ryde, Isle of Wight.
Senator Perkins. IIow long have you followed the sea ?
Mr. Perkis. Ever since I was 16 years of age.
Senator Perkins. How old are you ?
Mr. Perkis. Thirty-nine years of age.
Senator Perkins. In what capacities have you served ?
Mr. Perkis. As a sailor, all the time, sir.
Senator Perkins. Were you a quartermaster or a boatswain ?
Mr. Perkis. I have been a quartermaster and an able seaman.
Senator Perkins. You were not one of the lookout men ?
Mr. Perkis. I have been on the lookout in White Star ships.
Senator Perkins. But you were not on this voyage ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. Where were you when the collision took place ?
Mr. Perkis. I had turned in, sir : I was in the watch below.
Senator Perkins. You were in tne watch below at what time ?
Mr. Perkis. From 8 to 12.
Senator Perkins. You were one of the men for the first dog watch,
from 4 to 6 o'clock?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir • from 6 to 8 ; the last dog watch I had on deck.
Senator Perkins. How many men were detailed for duty on deck
aside from those on the lookout ?
Mr. Perkis. There is a watch on deck.
Senator Perkins. How many was the watch composed of ?
Mr. Perkis. I could not tell you exactly, sir.
Senator Perkins. It was given out that there were 83 sailormen on
the ship. It was testified to before the committee here that there
were 83 sailormen.
Mr. Perkis. I could not answer as to that.
Senator Perkins. How many were there in your watch ?
Mr. Perkis. There were three in my watch; and three quartermas-
ters in the watch below.
it .»«.«*.^ 9f
TITANIO DI8ASTEB. 581
Senator Perkins. Were you one of the quartermasters ?
Mr. Peekis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. I did not understand that you were. Then,
after you turned out the same as the other men, what occurred ?
Mr. Perkis. I turned out after being called by the joiner of the
ship. He came to the room and told us we had better turn out.
Senator Perkins. The joiner or carpenter of the ship told you that t
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir. He told us, then, that we had struck some-
thing. I took no notice of it. I stayed there until I thought it was
time to turn out to relieve the deck at 12 o'clock.
Senator Perkins. Did you not feel the jar of the ship when she
struck the icebei^ ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir; I did not feel anything at all.
Senator Perkins. When you got on deck, what was the number of
the boat you were assigned to i
Mr. Perkis. No. 4.
Senator Perkins. Wlao gave you orders to take to her, Mr.
Murdock ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir; there was nobody. The boat was lowered.
I lowered No. 4 into the water, and left that boat, and walked aft ; and
I came back, and a man that was in the boat, one of the seamen that
was in the boat at the time, sung out to me, "We need another hand
down here.'' So I slid down the life line there from the davit into the
boat.
Senator Perkins. How far is the distance from the upper deck down
to the water?
Mr. Perkis. About seventy-odd feet.
Senator Perkins. And you went hand over hand dowu?
Mr. Perkis. Down the life line; yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. It is quite a distance to go down in that way.
You were a quartermaster ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. You had charge of the boat, did you not ?
Mr. Perkis. I took charge of the boat after I got in.
Senator Perkins. How manj sailor men were aboard of her?
Mr. Perkis. We left the ship with three saUormen, sir, two and
myself.
Senator Perkins. How many were there when you lowered her
down from the davits?
I^Ir. Perkis. One man was lowered in the boat ?
Senator Perkins. How many passengers ?
Mr. Perkis. AJl the passengers were lowered in the boat from the
davits.
Senator Perkins. How many passengers did you have in the boat
at this time ?
Mr. Perkis. I should say about 42.
Senator Perkins. Forty-two, all told?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. That is, besides the tliree sailor men ?
Mr. Perkis. That is, including all hands.
Senator Perkins. Did yoy take up any more people afterwards ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Where did you get them ^
Mr. Perkis. We picked up eight, sir.
582 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Perkins. You picked up eight men that were swininiinir
with life preservers?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins . How far was tliis away from the ship ?
Mr Perkis I sliould say about tlie length of the ship awav, sir.
Senator Perkins. That was soon after you went down into tlie boat,
then ?
Mr. Perkis Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. What number did your boat get away? How
many boats did you get away from the ship first ?
Mr. Perkis No 4 was the boat I got away in; the last big boat on
the port side to leave the ship.
Senator Perkins You pidced up eight in the water?
Mr Perkis Yes; and two died after^'^ards, in the boat.
Senator Perkins Were they passengers or men of the crew ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir; one wasa fireman and one was a steward.
Senator Perkins. The others were all passengers ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Tell us what you did after that.
Mr. Perkis. After that, after we had picked up the men, I couhl
not hear any more cries anywhere. Everything was over. I waited
then until daylight, or just before daylight, when we saw the lights of
the Carpathia.
Senator Perkins. Did you see the Titanic go down ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. And you were how far from her at that time ?
Mr. Perkis. Six lengths from her, sir.
Senator Perkins. Did you feel any suction ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. You heard the cries of the people around her ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir; and we picked up eight out of the water.
Senator Perkins. Did those people have life preservers on ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. All eight persons had life preservers on ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Could you not have found more of them ?
Mr. Perkis. We stopped picking up. The last man we picked up,
we heard a cry, and we did not near any more cries after we had
picked up the last man.
Senator Perkins. How was the'discipline on board ship ?
Mr. Perkis. Excellent, sir.
Senator Perkins. Every man knew his station and took it ?
Mr. Perkis. Every man knew his station and took it.
Senator Perkins. Was there any excitement among the crew ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir; none whatever.
Senator Perkins. Or among the officers ?
Mr. Perkis. None at all, sir.
Senator Perkins. Or among the firemen or stewards ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir; they conducted themselves the same as thev
would if it were an ordinary everyday occurrence.
Senator Perkins. Is there any partioular incident that occurred
that the public would be interested in knowing that you can relate
to us ?
Mr. Perkis. No, sir. *
( t — «, . ^^-« 9 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 583
Senator Perkins. All three of you seem to be pretty capable young
men, and have had a good deal of experience at sea, and yet you have
never been wrecked ?
Mr. Perkis. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Is there any other one of you who has been in a
shipwreck ?
Mr. Hogg. I have been in a collision, Senator, but with no loss of
life.
Senator Perkins. On the lookout in the crow's nest did you see
any ice ?
Mr. HooG. No, sir; I never seen any ice when I relieved that
lookout.
Senator Perkins. Were instructions given you to keep a sharp
lookout t
Mr. Hogg. When I relieved the lookout at 12 o'clock that night I
had instructions from my relief.
Senator Perkins. You men have all had experience, more or less,
as lookouts. Is it customary to furnish you with night glasses ?
Mr. Hogg. We never had night elasses.
Senator Perkins. Just the naked eye ?
Mr. Hogg. Just the naked eye. I have always had night glasses
in the White Star boats. I asked for the glasses, and I did not see why
I should not have them. I had them from Belfast to Southampton;
but from Southampton to where the accident occurred we never had
them.
Senator Perkins. You were instructed to report immediately
to the officer on the bridge anything that occurred or any object
on the horizon ?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir. I asked for the glasses several times.
Senator Perkins. What were your instructions when you went into
the crow's nest, given to you by the officer ?
Mr. Hogg. None; but my opposite member gave me instructions,
"Keep a lookout for ice.''
Senator Perkins. When you saw the ice ahead, you struck throe
bells?
Mr. Hogg. The last lookout, the 6 to 8, was my lookout.
Senator Perkins. That is the last dog watch.
Mr. Hogg. I got a warning, then, to Keep a sharp lookout for ice,
and I said, **Very good."
Senator Perkins. Did you discover any ice ?
Mr. Hogg. None, sir. It was very, very cold, and I said ''There is
plenty of ice about here, because it is so cold.'' That is what I said to
my mate.
Senator Perkins. How far is the foremast, that the crow's nest is
on, from the bridge ? What is the distance.
Mr. Hogg. I am not good at judging distances, sir.
Senator Perkins. You know pretty nearly? This room, perhaps,
is 30 feet long. Was it as far as from this door to that window [indi-
cating] ?
Mr. Hogg. I could not swear to that. I should think, however,
that it was about 50 feet. That is what I should think about it. I
could not swear to it.
Senator Perkins. There was a telephone from the crow's nest to
the oflicer on the bridge?
584 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Was the telephone always in working order ?
Mr. Hogg. The telephone was in working order : yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. And where they haa no telephone, then you
hailed, with calls to the bridge ?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir; we struck a bell. We never used the phone,
only in going into harbors, or into ports, or in the case of anything
senous.
Senator Perkins. And you struck the bell every half hour ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes. And for reporting ships you struck one, port;
two, starboard; and three, right aheaa.
Senator Perkins. That is your signal to the bridge, which is under-
stood, of course ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir; that is the signal that you have seen something.
Senator Perkins. Yes.
Can either one of you men suggest anything by which this accident
could have been avoided, or by which more lives could have been
saved ? You are all good sailormen, and have had large experience.
Could anything have been done to save more lives than were savetl i
Mr. Hogg. No, sir. The only thing I can suggest is in regard to
the glasses. If we had had the glasses, we might have seen the berg
before ?
Senator Perkins. The officers on the bridge had glasses ?
Mr. Hogg. They had, yes, sir.
Mr. Symons. It is always customary to have glasses in the crow's
nest.
Senator Perkins. That has been the custom of the White: Star
Line?
Mr. Symons. Yes. I served three vears and five months on the
Oceanic, and they had glasses all the time.
Senator Perkins. Did she belong to the Wliite Star Line?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Also in regard to other ships, do you know ?
Mr. Symons. As far as I have heard from other people, they have
glasses in all the other ships.
Senator Perkins. Your eyes were tested, were they?
Mr. Symons. Last September they were tested by the board of
trade by the new test, the latest test out.
Senator Perkins. They gave you a certificate that you were quali-
fied as a good lookout ?
Mr. Symons. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. And it was the same way with both of you men \
Mr. Hogg. Yes; about two months ago, I think, my eyes were
tested.
Senator Perkins. In an ordinary way, can you not see better with
your plain eyes than you can with artificial glasses ?
Mr. Hogg. But the idea of the glasses, sir, is that if you happen
to see something on the horizon you can pick your sliip out, if it is a
ship, for instance.
Senator Perkins. As soon as you see anything, you signal the
officer on the bridge, do you not ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir; you would strike the bell. But you would
make sure, if you had the glasses that it was a vessel and not a ])iece of
cloud on the horizon.
€( f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 686
On a very nice night, with the stars shining, sometimes you might
think it was a ship when it was a star on the horizon. If you had
glasses, you could soon find out whether it was a ship or not.
Senator Smith. As soon as you discover anything unusual, how-
ever, you caU the attention of the officer on the bridge to it, do you
not?
Mr. Hooo. Quite so.
Senator Perkins. And he has glasses, of course ?
Mr. IIoGO. He has glasses, sir; yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. Is there anything that you want to state that
could have been done to save these people, aside from that ?
Mr. Hogg. That is all that I can suggest.
Senator Perkins. If you had had life rafts on board more could
have been saved, could they not?
Mr. Hogg. If we had had more boats I dare say that we could have
got away with a lot more.
Senator Perkins. The general feeling, though, you said, was that
the ship was safe, and that she was not going to sink. Wliat was the
general opinion that prevailed as to the seaworthiness of the ship ?
Mr. Hogg. I should say that I never thought she was going to sink.
I went to relieve the lookout 20 minutes after accident. I thought
she w*as not going down.
Senator Perkins. There was a general feeling of confidence among
the sailormen that she was perfecuy secure ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. And unsinkable ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir; that she was unsinkable.
Senator Perkins, llnless you have something more to state that
you think will throw light on this subject, that will be all; and we
thank you for what you have said.
Mr. Hogg. That is all I have to say, except tliis: I think all the
women ought to have a gold medal on their breasts. God bless
them. I will always raise my hat to a woman, after what I saw.
Senator Perkins. What country women were thev ?
Mr. Hogg. They were American women that I had in mind. They
were all Americans.
Senator Perkins. Did they man the oars? Did they take the
oars and pull ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir. I took the oar all the time, myself, and one
lady steered. Then I got another lady to steer, and she gave me a
liaiid on the oar, to keep herself warm.
Senator Perkins. One of the boats picked up a lot of people that
were on the upturned collapsible boat ?
Mr. Hogg. 1 did not see that. I believe that is so.
Senator Perkins. You people had no buoy, nor anything but the
life preservers that you picked up ?
Mr. Hogg. That is all.
Senator Perkins. Is there anything else that you can think of, any
recommendation or suggestion that you have to make ? If so, we
would like to have you do so.
Mr. Hogg. That is all, sir.
Senator Perkins. I say that because you are gocul practical men,
and have had a great deal of experience.
586 TITANIC DISASTER.
I thank you very much. We will excuse you now. That is all.
To-morrow morning we wUl take up this matter^ and probably you
can go home. You want to go home to England, all of you, do you ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir; wc are all married men, waiting to get back
home.
Senator Perkins. Arc you a married man, Mr. Symons?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; but I have my mother and father waiting for
me.
Senator Perkins. You are a married man, Mr. Hogg?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. And you have a wife and children ?
Mr. Hogg. Yes, sir.
Senator Perkins. How many children ?
Mr. Hogg. Two, sir.
Senator Perkins. Your home is in Hull, also ?
Mr. Hogg. All my peo])le arc there, but my wife is in Southampton.
I make Southampton my home now. I married a Hampshire woman.
Senator Perkins. I thank you very much for your statement.
There is one other thing I wanted to ask. Are you all temperate
men? I want to ask whether there was any drunkenness among any
of the crew ?
Mr. Symons. None whatever, sir.
Senator Perkins. You are personally acquainted with the habits
of the crew. Were there any drinking men among them ?
Mr. Symons. Wc never allowed it to be served on board the ship,
sir.
Senator Perkins. No liquor whatever was allowed to be served to
them?
Mr. Symons. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. There was none in the forecastle or in the mess
room with you ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. You never saw a man under the influence of
liquor on the voyage ?
Mr. Hogg. No sir; I do not sec where they could get it from.
Senator Perkins. None was permitted or allowed on board?
Mr. Hogg. No, sir.
Senator Perkins. One of you has stated that his boat picked up
eight people and the other that ho did not pick up any. Could you
not have picked up some people just as well as this other man ?
Could you not have done it just as well as this other man?
Mr. Hogg. I wanted to assist in picking up people, but I had an
order from the boat: '^ We have done our best; go on to the Oarpathia;
we have picked up all we can find;" and I said *' Very good.''
Senator Perkins. Who gave you that order ?
Mr. Hogg. Somebody in the boat — I do not know who it was — said
not to take an}^ more, that we had done our best.
Senator Perkins. I merely asked the question because of the
natural thought that if one boat picked up eight persons, the, other
boat might liave been able to do so.
You did not get any orders, Mr. Symons, not to pick up any more
people ?
Mr. Symons. No, sir; there wore no more around about where I
was.
it ««-,.^,,^ 9 9
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 587
Senator Pebkins. Were those two boats the same size?
Mr. Hogg. They were the same size.
Senator Perkins. As I understand, one of the boats had more
packed into it than the other.
As I understand it, Mr. Symons puUed away from the ship; and
then, when he came back there, they picked up aU the people there
were around.
Whereupon, at 6 o'clock p. m., the taking of testimony before
Senator Perkins was concluded.
TESTIMOmr OF JOHBT HABDT.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Fletcher on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was duly sworn by Senator Fletcher.
Senator Fletcher. Will you state your full name ?
Mr. Hardy. John Hardy, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Hardy. Oakleigh, Holy Kood Avenue, Highfield, South-
aiopton.
Senator Fletcher. What is your age, Mr. Hardy ?
Mr. Hardy. I am 36 years old.
Senator Fletcher. Are you married or single ?
Mr. Hardy. I am married. I have a wife and two children.
Senator Fletcher. How long have you followed the sea ?
Mr. Hardy. I have been 14 years at sea.
Senator Fletcher. What is your position now ?
Mr. Hardy-. Now and for the last seven years I have been chief
steward, second class.
Senator Fletcher. With what company are jrou employed ?
Mr. Hardy. I have in the White Star Line service for 12 years past.
Senator Fletcher. With what ships were you employed ?
Mr. Hardy. I was vrith the MajestiCy the Adriatic, tne Olympic, the
Teutonic, and the Titanic.
Senator Fletcher. When did you ship with the Titanic?
Mr. Hardy. I shipped with the Titanic on her last voyage.
Senator Fletcher. In what capacitv ?
Mr. ELA.RDY. As second-class steward.
Senator Fletcher. Did anything unusual occur on that voyage ?
Mr. Hardy. Nothing unusual occurred until we struck the ice-
berg.
^nator Fletcher. What were vour duties ?
Mr. Hardy. My duties were to be around the ship until 1 1 o'clock
at night, when I would see to the closing up of the rooms and the turn-
infi; out of the lights.
Senator Fletcher. You may begin now at the time of the collision
of the Titanic with the iceberg, and state fully what happened ?
Mr. Hardy. I did not retire until 25 minutes after 11. I went
down to my room after going around the ship and seeing that all the
unnecessary lights were out. I went to my room and stripped and
turned in. I had not been in more than five minutes before I heard
this sl%ht shock. I got up and slipped on my pants and coat over my
pajamas and went on deck to see what the trouble was. I got on
588 TITANIC DISASTER.
deck and could not see anything, and I went below again and turned
in again within about 10 minutes after I had gone on deck.
Senator Fletcheb. Wliat deck ?
Mr. Hardt. I had gone up then to B deck to look over the ship's
side to see if I could see anything. I could not see anything and I
went below and retired again and was reading a few mmutes when the
chief first-class steward came to my room and asked me to get up, as
he thought it was pretty serious, that she was making water forward.
I went with him forward to see what water she was making, and on
my return to my end of the ship I met Purser Barker.
Senator Fletcher. Wlio was he ?
Mr. Hardy. Purser Barker. He advised me or told me to get the
feople on deck with their Ufe belts on as a precaution. Immediately
sent down for all hands to come up. The stewards were interested
in their own cabins, because they had all retired, and the middle
watch came on at 12. They all came along, and I went among the
people and told those people to go on deck with their Ufe belts on,
and we assisted the ladies with the belts, those that hadn't their hus-
bands with them, and we assisted in getting the children out of bed.
I also aroused the stewardesses to assist them. The whole of the men
came, and they assisted me in going around calling the different
passengers.
Senator Fletcher. On which deck ? Was it on just the one deck '(■
Mr. Hardy. On all the decks, sir; D, E, and F.
Senator Fletcher. How many men did you have ?
Mr. Hardy. I had 12. The whole class numbered 70, which, of
course, they were not interested in bedrooms, consequently it is only
the bedroom stewards that would be interested in the rooms. We
commenced to close the water-tight doors on F deck. I assisted the
bedroom stewards also in sending the people up through the com-
panionways to the upper decks.
Senator Fletcher. Who told you to close the water-tight doors ?
Mr. Hardy. We had this order also from Mr. Barker, when he told
me to rouse the people as a precaution.
I got them all up on the outer decks, and they were grouped about
the ship in diflFerent parts, and I went to my station at the boat,
which was boat 1, on the starboard side. I saw that lowered before
I myself got there; that is, I myself did not get into it, as there was
no room. By that time all the starboard boats had ^one, and I went
over to the port side and assisted the ladies and cluldren in getting
into the boats, and finally I was working on deck until the last col-
lapsible boat was launched.
Senator Fletcher. Where was that located ?
Mr. Hardy. Right forward, on the port side. We launched this
filled with passengers. We launched the boat parallel with the ship's
side, and Mr. Liglitollor and myself, two sailors, and two firemen —
the two sailors were rigging the poles and getting them in working
order and Mr. LightoUer and myself loaded the boat When the
boat was full, Mr. LightoUer was in the boat with me; and the cliief
officer came along and asked if the boat was full, and he said yes.
He said he would step out himself and make room for somebody
else, and he stepped back on board the ship and asked if I could row.
I told him I could, and I went away in that boat.
it ..^^.^^.^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 589
We lowered away and got to the water, and the ship was then at a
heavy list to port oy the time we commenced to lower away.
We got clear of tne ship and rowed out some little distance from
her, and finally we all got together, about seven boats of us, and I
remember quite distinctly Boatswain Lowe telling us to tie up to each
other, as we would be Setter seen and could keep better together.
Then Officer Lowe, having a full complement of passengers in his boat,
distributed among us what he had, our boat taking 10. We had 25
already, and that number made 35.
Officer Lowe then returned with his crew back to the ship to pick
up all he could. I found out afterwards he had picked up some. We
hung around then until dawn, imtil we sighted the Carvaihia^ pulling
now and again. We were towed up by Mr. Lowe with a sail to the
Carpathiaj not having enough men in the boat to pull. There was
only just this quartermaster and myself, two firemen, and about four
gentlemen passengers, and the balance were women and children.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know the names of the quartermaster
and firemen?
Mr. Hardy. I do not know the names of the firemen, but Bright
was the quartermaster, and he took the tiller. He was using an oar
to steer by. I myself pulled with all my might.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know the names of any of the passen-
gers?
Mr. Hardy. No. sir; I do not. They were all strangers to me.
There were a numoer of third-class passengers, that were Syrians, in
the bottom of the boat, chattering the whole night in their strange
language.
Senator Fletcher. Then you wore taken aboard the Carpathiaf
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What boat had been unloaded before you got
to the Carpathiaf
Mr. Hardy. Five or six of them, or possibly more. We were some
of the last.
Senator Fletcher. How many boats had been lowered before you
lowered the collapsible ?
Mr. Hardy. All the lifeboats had been lowered and had left the
ship.
senator Fletcher. All of the lifeboats ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And the sea boats ?
Mr. Hardy. They are lifeboats. Those are the wooden boats.
Senator Fletcher. Had the other coUapsibles gone ?
Mr. Hardy. From the port side ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Hardy. I do not know that.
Senator Fletcher. This was on the starboard side ?
Mr. Hardy. I came in the last collapsible boat that left the ship
and, greatly to my surprise, when I got on the Carpathia I saw Officer
LightoUer coming in the following afternoon. When he stepped from
this collapsible boat, I was sure ne had gone down in the ship and I
was greatly surprised when I saw him on the Carpathia,
Senator Fletcher. Did you see Mr. Ismay at any time ?
Mr. Hardy. I never saw Mr. Ismay from Southampton until to-day
in this building.
590 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletoheb. You did not even see him on board the Car-
jxUhiaf
Mr. Hardy. No; I did not see him. I was in the second class and
more interested in the second class, and was doing all I could to
pacify them.
Senator Fletcher. Did you take in that collapsible boat all the
people that you could take on her or that were there ?
Mr. Hardy. From where ?
Senator Fletcher. From the Titanic, when you were low^ered
away.
Sfi", Hardy. Yes; and we took 10 off the other boat.
Senator Fletcher. I mean when you lowered away from the ship
did you take all that she would hold safely or all who were there.
Mr. Hardy. W© took all who were there. There was nobody to
lower the afterfall until Mr. LightoUer went aboard to do it himself.
Senator Fletcher. Were there passengers on board the sliip stand-
ing there trjdng to get on board the Ufeboat ?
Mr. Hardy. There was nobody on board, because we could not get
our collapsible boat lowered from one end of it. The forward part of
the collapsible boat was lowered, but there was nobody there to lower
the afterend, which you will find in Mr. Bright^s evidence. Mr.
Lightoller stepped from the collapsible boat aboard the ship again
and did it himself.
Senator Fletcher. There were no women and children there ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; not in sight at all. There was nobody to
lower the boat.
Senator Fletcher. The women and children could not lower it ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. There were no men passengers there on tlie
deck ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; not when we were ready to lower the boat.
Senator Fletcher. When you were ready to lower that boat every
passenger in your vicinity had gone ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; they had gone.
Senator Fletcher. Which way liad tliey gone?
Mr. Hardy. I could not sav.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see passengers on the decks ?
Mr. Hardy. Afterwards f
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Hardy. We were too near the water when we lowered away.
We were not more than 40 feet from the water when we lowered.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear any passengers calling out on
deck at the time you were lowered, or lie fore, trying to get into the
boat?
Mr. Hardy. We picked up tlie husband of a wife that we had taken
off in the load in the boat. The gentleman took to the water and
climbed in the boat after we had lowered it.
I remember that quite distinctly.
Senator Fletcher. You mean you took a woman on board the
boat
Mr. Hardy. Before we lowered. Her husband took to the water.
Senator Fletcher. Jumped in the water?
Mr. Hardy. Yes; and climbed in the boat when we were afloat.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know who he was ?
<f „^».. * ^ yf
TITANIC DISASTER. 591
Mr. Hardy. I know the gentleman — but I do not know his name-
because he sat there, wringing wet, alongside of me, helping me row.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see him afterwards on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What became of him; do you know?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; I do not know, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was he an American ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; an American gentleman.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any icebergs ?
Mr. Hardy. At daylight we did; quite a lot.
Senator Fletcher. How many ?
Mr. Hardy. I should think tnere was, in my judgment, 5 or 6
miles of field ice, and any number of bergs. I could see them from
the Carpathia.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see any bergs until after you were
on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; I did not see one.
Senator Fletcher. How far away were j^ou when the Titanic went
down ?
ilr. Hardy. We could get a full view of her, unfortunately.
Senator Fletcher. You could get a full view ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. In what way did she go down ?
Mr. Hardy. She went down head first.
Senator Fletcher. The stern almost perpendicular ?
Mr. Hardy. Not perpendicular, but almost. Her stem was right
out of the water.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any passengers then on her ?
Mr. Hardy. We were too far away for that and it was too dark.
Senator Fletcher. Could you hear any cries ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes; I did, sir.
Senator Fletcher. After she went down or before ?
Mr. Hardy. After she went down.
Senator Fletcher. None before ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was there anything like a panic on board the
ship?
Mr. Hardy. Not at all, becanse everybody had full confidence
that the ship would float.
Senator Fletcher. Up to what time; up to the time your boat
left?
Mr. Hardy. Up to the time my boat left. She began to list before
we left her.
Senator Fletcher. People even then thought she would float ?
Mr. Hardy. Of course 1 had great respect and great regard for
Chief Officer Murdock, and I was walking along the deck forward
with him, and he said, "I believe she is gone, Hardy"; and that is
the only time I thought she might sink; mien he said that.
Senator Fletcher. How long was that before your boat was
lowered ?
Mr. Hardy. It was a good half hour, I should say, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Where did he go then, do you know ?
Mr. Hardy. He was walking toward the afterpart of the deck.
That was before all the boats had gone.
692 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. He superintended the loading of the boats t
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; he went to see if a particular boat was prop-
erly maimed.
. Senator Fletcher. When you left the ship you thought she was
going to sink %
Mr. Hardy. When I left the ship ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Hardy. Yes; it began to ^et serious. I still had confidence the
thing would float, though, sir, without a doubt.
Senator Fletcher, i ou could have carried more people in your
boat?
Mr. Hardy. Evidently, for we took on 10 more outside.
Senator Fletcher, i ou can not lower a boat with quite as many
people in it as you can float ?
Mr. Hardy. I can not say that. Of course they are only frail
things.
Senator Fletcher. If there had been people there trying to get in,
you would have taken them in, would you not?
Mr. Hardy. Without a doubt. Mr. LightoUer stepped right back
aboard the ship to make room for somebody else.
Senator Fletcher. Where were all the passengers, these 1,600
people ?
Mr. Hardy. They must have been between decks or on the deck
below or on the other side of the ship. I can not conceive where they
were.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any drinking among the stewards
or any portion of the crew that night ?
Mr. Hardy. Not to my knowledge, sir. In the first place, the
crew could not afford to buy drinks. There is no other means of
getting it but to buy it, so a man would not be in a position to do it if
he drank.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see any members of the crew under
the influence of liquor ?
Mr. Hardy. That is impossible to think, that is impossible to sug-
gest, that men drink while at sea; because in the first place^ if it was
possible for a man to want it he could not afford to buy it; and there
IS no hope for him to get it, because he would not be served, anyway.
Senator Fletcher. Where was your berth located ?
Mr. Hardy. Where was my room located ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Hardy. Just beyond the engine room, aft; just a little farther
aft than
Senator Fletcher (interposing). On what deck?
&&. Hardy. E deck, right amioships, as near amidships as possible.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any water coming in anjrwhere ?
' Mr. Hardy. Not until I went forward to see. Then I did not see
it, in fact; I could only hear it.
Senator Fletcher You could hear it ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was it pouring in in great volume ?
Mr. Hardy. It was making too much noise to come in -in any great
volume.
Senator Fletcher. How do you mean ?
t< ..^^.^ ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 593
Mr. Habdy. The fall of the water was not like a volume. It was
coming in fast, but you could hear it falling, which, if you get a body
of water — it was continuous — this flow of water that I heard. Of
course it was gradually coming up. We could see it coming up the
stairs gradually.
Senator Fletcher. Where did you see it coming in or hear it
coming in ?
Mr. Hardy. On the port side.
Senator Fletcher. Which side was struck — the starboard side ?
Mr. Hardy. On the starboard side, I meant. I beg your pardon;
yes.
Senator Fletcher. You saw it on the starboard side, then ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the iceberg which she struck ?
Mr. Hardy. No ; and I went up within two or three minutes after-
wards and did not see it.
Senator Fletcher. When did you first know she had struck an ice-
berg ?
Mr. Hardy. Only through hearsay.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see any ice on the decks anywhere ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; it was too dark: Our duty does not take us
on deck at all. We are intrusted with the passengere, and that
keeps us fully employed.
Senator Fletcher. How many people did you arouse ?
Mr. Hardy. The method I usea was to just open the doors and
throw them back, and go right on down through the rooms myself.
Senator Fletcher. What did you say ?
Mr. Hardy. Just, *' Everybody on deck with life belts on, at once.^'
Senator Fletcher. You gave that order ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; myself.
Senator Fletcher. How many doors do you think you opened ?
Mr. Hardy. I should think 20 or 24. Before I got there the men
were along doing the same thing, the bedroom stewards. They all
went into their own sets of rooms. They each have a set of rooms to
look after.
Senator Fletcher. How many bedroom stewards were there ?
Mr. Hardy. Twelve, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was that sufficient to arouse all the passengers
on the boat ?
Mr. Hardy. Oh, yes; because a man has no more than 12 rooms.
That was early. By tne time these men were along it was about a
quarter to 12, 1 should say.
The way we work on board ship, all unnecessary lights are out at
11, and then there are four bedroom stewards kept on from 11 untU
12. That is onlv one hour. Then two bedroom stewards come
along for the midxile watch, from 12 until 4 in the morning. Then
they are relieved at half past 5 by all hands for the day, until the
following night.
Senator Fletcher. This collision occurred before 12 o'colck ?
Mr. Hardy. Just between 11 and 12; 25 minutes to 12, I should
say.
Senator Fletcher. You began giving this alarm about what time
after the collision ?
594 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Hardy. I should think about between 20 minutes and a quar-
ter to 12. I sent for all hands at once.
Senator Fletcher. That was immediately after the collision ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. The order came to you then?
Mr. Hardy. I could prove positively, but there is not a bedroom
steward living to-day. I have 14 men out of 70. That is all I did
save, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Your recollection is that you had the order
to give the alarm to put on life belts immediately after the collision ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; within five minutes after the collision.
Senator Fletcher. How did that order come?
Mr. Hardy. F'rom Purser Barker; that is, Purser Barker brought
it himself personally to me.
Senator Fletcher. How was it transmitted, do you know ? Did
it come from the commander?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; to the two pursers. There is a first-class
f)urser and a second-class purser. They would get it direct from the
)ridge, I presume. They are our superiors aboard the ship, and we
take our orders through them.
Senator Fletcher; After the ship went down could you see the
people in the water, or just hear them ?
Mr. Hardy. Just hear them.
Senator Fletcher. Did you go back to rescue any of them?
Mr. Hardy. We were overloaded then, with ten more aboard.
Senator Fletcher. Did I^we go back ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; he did, with five or seven men in the boat to
row.
Senator Fletcher. Did he return with people in his boat?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; he did. He retumecl, I tliink, with seven.
I think three died. He can give his account later, or I think perhaps
he lias alreadv done it.
Senator Fletcher. The weather was cold ?
Mr. Hardy. Very cold, sir.
Senator Fletcher. No fog ?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did the ship's sirens blow ?
Mr. Hardy. We have no sirens. There is no whistle. The rockets
were fired. Thev were fired for some time.
Senator Fletcher. Before she went down ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. But no whistles?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. The steam was escaping ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; but they are more distinctive.
Senator Fletcher. You think there were sufficient stewards there
to awaken and arouse all hands ?
Mr. Hardy. Without a doubt. We work in three departments on
the ship. Each man is assigned to Ids different department, and goes
at once to his department. We have more than enough men to call.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know of anything further that will
throw any light on this inatter; is there anything you can suggest
that will throw any further light on it ?
i( .^p..^**^ 99
TITANIO DISASTBB, 595
Mr. Hardy. I have nothing I could suggest any further. I have
answered all I know, from 20 minutes of 12 until we went with the
boat at 12.30. That boat that went back to the ship picked up a
coUapsible boat, and took about 20 men off of a collapsible boat.
She was awash when we met her.
Senator Fletcher. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Hardy. She was waterlogged.
Senator Fletcher. There were people hanging to her or clinging
to her?
Mr. Hardy. No, sir; they were standing up.
Senator Fletcher. Some of these people were taken off by Lowe?
Mr. Hardy. They were all taken off by the boat I spoke of, that
returned to the ship.
Senator Fletcher. That was Lowe's boat ?
Mr. Hardy. Lowe was in charge of it; yes.
Senator Fletcher. Could these firemen or any of these men in
your boat row at all ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes; there were two firemen in the forward end that
could row, myself and a passenger rowed from the middle, and this
quartermaster was at the stern to keep her head on. The sea got up
early in tlie morning.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear any explosions on the ship?
ilr. Hardy. Yes, sir; I fancied I did. There were two direct
reports.
Senator Fletcher. What did it sound like, the giving way of
bulkheads or the bursting of boilers ?
Mr. Hardy. That I could not say. There were two reports or
e^losions. What it was, I do not know. I was not able to say.
Senator Fletcher. Did you feel the shock or jar when the collision
took place ?
Mr. Hardy. Very sKghtly, sir. I did not think it was anything
at all.
Senator Fletcher. You were in bed, you say ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. It did not throw you out of your bunk, or any-
thing like that ?
Mr. Hardy. No. sir. It was iust a slight jar, just a gradual jar,
and that is all. Sne did not heel over, or anything of that kind.
Senator Fletcher. I believe that is all I desire to ask you, Mr.
Hardy.
TESTIMOITT OF WILLIAM WABD.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Fletcher on behalf of the Bubcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Fletcher.
Senator Fletcher. WiU you state your full name, please ?
Mr. Ward. William Ward.
Senator Fletcher. Where do you Uve ?
Mr. Ward. Oak Villa, 107 Millbrook Road, Southampton.
Senator Fletcher. What is your experience as a seaman ?
Mr. Ward. Twenty years.
Senator Fletcher. In what capacity were you on the Titanicf
Mr. Ward. As saloon steward.
Senator Fletcher. Who was your immediate superior ?
40475— PT 7—12 6
i i —,«. . « ^ f 9
596 TITANIO DISASTEB.
Mr. Ward. The second steward. There were three second stew-
ards. Mr. Dodd was the chief second steward.
Senator Fletcher. Who were the other second stewards ?
Mr. Ward. Mr. Hughes and Mr. Wheat.
Senator Fletcher. Did they survive ?
Mr. Ward. One of them, sir; Mr. Wheat.
Senator Fletcher. Were you on duty the night of the accident?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; I had gone below. I was just turning in
when she struck.
Senator Fletcher. Where was the location of your room ?
Mr. Ward. About amidships, sir; on the port side.
Senator Fletcher. On what deck ?
Mr. Ward. On E deck.
Senator Fletcher. Did vou feel the shock of the collision ?
Mr. Ward. Yes, sir; slightly.
Senator Fletcher. Enough to unbalance you on your feet ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What did you do ? What orders did you get,
and what did you do ?
Mr. Ward. When I felt the shock, sir, I got up. I went to the
port and opened it. It was very bitterly cold. I looked out and
saw nothing. It was very dark. I got back into my bunk again.
Presently two or three people came along there where we were ail
situated and said she had struck an iceberg, and some of them went
and brought pieces of ice along in their hands. I thought at first it
was the propeller gone, the way she went. I lay there for about 20
minutes, and in the meantime the steerage passengers were coming
from forward, coming aft, carrying life belts with them. Some of
them got their grips and packages and had them with them, and some
were wet. Stifl 1 did not think it was anything serious, and I lay
there for some time, a little while longer, when the head waiter came
down — ^Moss, his name was — and said we were all to go on deck and
to put on some warm clothing before we went up, as we were liable
to oe there some time. With that I think most everybody in the
"glory hole," as we call it, got dressed and went on decic. I just put
on things to keep me warm, because I did not think it was anything
serious.
We went up the midsliip companionway , up to the top deck ; and
meeting Mr. Dodd on D deck he told us to go forward to the saloon
and see if there was anyone about, and if there was to order them up
on deck and to collect the life belts and to bring them up to the deck
cloakroom.
I went forward and did not see anyone around there and came back,
and I got seven life belts on my way up. When I got on deck, I
adjusted preservers on people that hadn't got one. I did not take it
aeriously at all. I put one on myself. Everybody was suppUed
around there at the time.
Senator Fletcher. Was there much of a crowd of passengers
around there ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; everybody was moving around and in a most
orderly manner. There did not seem to be any excitement. In fact,
there was a lot of ladies and gentlemen there that were just treating
it as a kind of a joke.
€i »^«.«,^ yy
TITANIC DISASTEB. 597
I went to my boat — I was stationed at No. 7 — and she was already
lowered to the same level as the deck.
Senator Fletcher. Which side ?
Mr. Ward. On the starboard side. They called for the ladies to get
in. Some got in, and there were a few men got into it; quite a few of
the crew up there, and they did not want them for that ooat. They
did not waivt me for that boat, although I was told off for that boat.
They just took sufficient men to man the boat. Then I went aft to
No. 9 boat.
Senator Fletcher. Who was superintending this loading ?
Mr. Ward. Mr. Murdock, the chief officer. Purser McElroy was
there, and Mr. Ismay. I do not think any other officers that I saw
were there.
I went to No. 9 boat and assisted to take the canvas cover off of her.
Then we lowered her down to level with the boat deck, and a sailor
came along with a bag and threw it in the boat. This man said he
had been sent down to take charge of the boat by the captain. The
boatswain's mate, Haynes, was there, and he ordered this man out of
the boat, and the man got out again. He stayed there for three or
four minutes, and I think the purser — I am not sure on that point —
said **Are you all ready?'' Ilaynes answered '*Yes" — it was either
the purser or Mr. Murdock — and with that he said: 'Tass in the
women and children that are here into that boat." There were sev-
eral men standing around, and they fell back, and there was quite a
quantity of women and children helped into the boat ; I could not say
how many. One old lady made a great fuss about it and absolutely
refused to get into the boat. She went back to the companionway
and forced her way in and would not get into the boat.
Senator Fletcher. Was she with her husband ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; I do not think I saw her husband; I did not
see her husband. She would not get in the boat. There were sev-
eral men in the boat then to assist in getting the women in. One
woman had already fallen and hurt herself a Uttle — a French lady.
The purser told two more men to get in and assist these women down
into the boat.
From the rail of the boat it is quite a step down to the bottom of
the boat, and in the dark they could not see where they were stepping.
Then the purser told me to get into the boat and take an oar. I did
so, and we still waited there and asked if there were any more women.
There were none coming along. There were no women to be seen on
deck at that time.
Then they took about three or four men into the boat, and the offi-
cers that were standing there thought there was quite sufficient in it
to lower with safety, and we lowered down to the water, everything
running very smoothly. We got away
Senator Iletcher. Were you in that boat ?
Mr. Ward. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. You were told to go in the boat ?
Mr. Ward. Yes, sir; the purser put me in that boat.
Senator Fletcher. Who did ?
Mr. Ward. He asked me if I understood anything about it. I
said, "I understand a little about it," and he said, "Get in there."
Senator Fletcher. Who said that ?
Mr. Ward. Purser McElroy.
698 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletoheb. How many people did you have to row that
boat?
Mr. Wabd. There were four of us rowed all night. There were
more men in the boat, but some of them had not been to sea before
and did not know the first thing about an oar, or know the bow from
the stem.
Senator Fletgheb. How many men, all told, were in the boat with
you?
Mr. Wabd. I did not count them, sir; I could not say. I should
say about seven or eight.
Senator Fletcheb. How many women ?
Mr. Wabd. We had a full boat. I do not know what women were
there. They were pretty thick. We had not room to pull the oars.
They had to move their bodies with us when we were rowing, so she
was pretty well packed. How many there were I could not say.
Senator Fletcheb. Were there any children ?
Mr. Wabd. No, sir; there were no children in the boat.
Senator Fletcheb. How many boats had been lowered before
that, so far as you know ?
Mr. Wabd. 1 do not know, sir.
Senator Fletcheb. You know of one ?
Mr. Wabd. One is all I know of, sir. I do not know how many
altogether.
Senator Fletcheb. You do not know whether the other boats on
that side had been lowered ?
Mr. Wabd. No, sir.
Senator Fletcheb. Did you see anv lowered after you left ?
Mr. Wabd. Yes, sir. No. 11 was lowered down to deck A, and
they were putting women and children into that boat from deck A.
We were already down in the water.
Senator Fletcheb. Did you see any other women and children
upon deck A ?
Mr. Wabd. No, sir; I did not notice particularly.
Senator Fletcheb. Was that boat full ?
Mr. Wabd. Our boat, sir.
Senator Fletcheb. Boat 1 1 .
Mr. Wabd I could not say.
Senator Fletcheb. Did you stay close to No. 11 after you were
botli in the water ?
Mr. Wabd. We got away from the ship's side before No. 11 was in
the water, and Haynes gave orders to pull away, and we had some
difficulty in unlashing the oars on account of them being lashed up.
No one had a knife, for some time. We pulled off about, I should
say, a couple of hundred yards, and Haynes gave orders to lay on
the oars, which we did.
Senator Fletcheb. Who was Haynes ?
Mr. Wabd. He was the boatswain's mate.
Senator Fletcheb. He was in charge of the boat ?
Mr. Wabd. Yes, sir. We lay there for some time; I could not
exactly say how long.
Senator Fletcheb. How long was it before the ship went down ?
Mr. Wabd. I suppose about an hour afterwards.
Senator Fletcheb. How long after you got out there and stopped
rowing was it before the ship went down ?
it .-^-,. ^,.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 599
ilr. Ward. About an hour, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you keep about the same distance from
her until she went down ?
Mr. Ward. Yes, sir; until Haynes thought she was goine down.
He was rather afraid of suction, and he gave orders to puD away,
wiiich we did. We pulled as hard as we could and we increased our
distance to about a quarter of a mile, or something like that.
Senator Fletcher. Was the Titanic moving all the time ?
Mr. Ward. In what way do you mean, sinking or moving ahead ?
Senator Fletcher. Moving ahead.
Mr. Ward. No, sir; I do not think she was. She had no way on,
whatever.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know when she ceased to move ahead
after the coUision ?
Mr. Ward. I would not like to say exactly when she stopped, but I
suppose about 10 minutes or so after the shock she was slowing down,
then, and almost stopping then, I suppose. It being so dark, I really
could not tell.
Senator Fletcher. Was she listing badly when you lowered boat
No. 9 ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; she was not listing at all. She was down by
the head, but not listing. I could not give you any degree she was
down to; a very sUght angle, at that time.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any suction when she went down ?
Mr. Ward. Yes, sir; a little, I think. It seemed to us there was,
in the boat. I could not swear that there was.
Senator Fletcher. Did she go down gradually after you left her,
or did she stay up and then suddenly turn downward ?
Mr. Ward. She went very gradually for a while. We could just
see the ports as she dipped. We couldf see the light in the ports, and
the water seemed to come very slowly up to them. She did not
appear to be going fast, and I was of the opinion then that she would-
not go. I thought we were only out there as a matter of precaution
and would certainly go back to the ship. I was stUl of tne opinion
she would float.
Senator Fletcher. Then did she suddenly turn down ?
Mr. Ward. She gave a kind of sudden lurch forward, and I heard a
couple of reports, reports more like a volley of musketry than any-
thing else. 1 ou would not exactly call them a heavy explosion. It
did not seem to me Uke an explosion at all.
Senator Fletcher. Could you see any passengers on her after you
got away ?
Mr. Ward. It was too dark.
Senator Fletcher. Could you hear them calling out or anything ?
Mr. Ward. After she went down we heard them calling.
Senator Fletcher. Did you make toward them then or not ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; our boat was too fuU. It would have been
madness to have gone back.
Senator Fletcher. Did you assemble with any of the other boats
after that ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir. We never got near to another boat again.
Senator Fletcher. Did the Carpathia come to you or did you go
to the Garpaihiaf
600 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Ward. We partially rowed and she partially came some of the
way. We saw her at a distance. She was headed our way. She
stopped and slued around a Uttle, and we surmised that she was then
picKing up a boat. It was hardly light enough t/o see at the time. It
was just breaking day at that time, but we could see her lights.
Then, of course, we started to pull toward her. I think we were
about the fourth or fifth boat to oe picked up.
Senator Fletcher. You were picked up aoout how far from where
the Titonic went down?
Mr. Ward. I should not think it would be more than about h&lf a
mile or so.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any icebergs there ?
Mr. Ward. Yes sir; after daybreak, but not before.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see many of them ?
Mr. Ward. There was quite a big lot of field ice and several large
icebergs in amount the field that I saw, and there were two or three
icebergs separated from the main body of the field there.
Senator Fletcher. Were they in the direction of where the Titanic
went down?
Mr. Ward. I am not competent to say, sir. I am not competent
to judge whether they were m that du-ection or not.
Senator Fletcher. Did you arouse any of the passengers that
niffht?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; there was none of the rooms I went around to
at all. I collected life belts on my way and brought them on the deck.
Senator Fletcher. Where were all the passengers ?
Mr. Ward. They were scattered all over the snip on the different
decks, and there were so many decks it is hard to say where they were.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any drinking among the crew or
passengers that night ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir; none whatever. Had there been extra dinners
or banquets, or the like of that, I certainly should have known it,
working in the saloon. There was nothing in the way of banquets
since we left Southampton, barring ordinary dinners, that I heard of.
Senator Fletcher. If there had been a banquet on board the ship
that Sunday night, you would have known about it ?
Mr. Ward. If there had been any banquet at aU, some of us would
certainly have been working for that purpose.
Senator Fletcher. Did you say you saw Mr. Ismay at boat No. 9 f
Mr. Ward. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did he get in that boat ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What boat did he get in, do you know ?
Mr. Ward. I do not know, sir. He was on deck when our boat
left.
Senator Fletcher. Was he giving any orders or directions, at all ?
Mr. Ward. None that I know of. I heard him say, "Steady,
boys,'' or something like that — it was some expression like that —
when he was standing talking to Mr. McElroy.
Senator Fletcher. Who called out for the women that were to
get in the boats ? Who called for the women ?
Mr. Ward. I think it was Chief Officer Murdock. I would not be
sure whether it was him or the purser. They were both tall men, and
I would not be sure which one it was. It was dark, you know.
(t .^^.^..^ f9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 601
Senator Fletcher. Do you know if there was any banquet on
board the ship that night in the captain's room ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir, I do not know of anything in the captain's
room at all. I did not know anything at all about it.
Senator Fletcher. What steward would serve there, or who
would have knowledge of that ?
Mr. Ward. The captain's servant, sir. There was no room in his
room for anv banquet. It would be impossible.
Senator Pletcher. Did the captain's servant survive ?
Mr. Ward. I do not think so, sir.
Mr. Hardy. No, he did not.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the captain that night ?
Mr. Ward. No, sir, I did not see him tnat night.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see him, Hardy f
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir; I did.
Senator Fletcher. Where did you see him ?
Mr. Hardy. On the bridge, before our boat left. •
Senator Fletcher. What was he doing?
Mr. Hardy. He was superintending the rockets, calling out to the
quartermaster about the rockets.
Senator Fletcher. That is the last you saw of him ?
Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir. He walked on the deck, watching the filling
of the boats. That is the last thing I saw of him.
Senator Fletcher. I believe that is all I care to ask you, Ward,
TESTIMONY OF JAMES WIDOEST.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Fletcher on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Fletcher.
Senator Fletcher. What is your full name and address/
Mr. WiDGERY. James Widgery, 67 Oxford Street, Southampton.
Senator Fletcher. What was your position on the Titanic ?
Mr. WnxjERY. In the second class.
Senator Fletcher. Second class what ?
Mr. Widgery. I had charge of the bar on the forward deck.
Senator Fletcher. You were in charge of the bar ?
Mr. Widgery. Yes; on the forward section of F dock.
Senator Fletcher. Were you up that night ?
Mr. Widgery. I went to bed about 10 o'clock. I wont to bed
right after inspection. I went to bed and- was asleep when the acci-
dent happenea.
Senator Fletcher. When did you first know of the accident, and
how?
Mr. Widgery. When I heard the noise, it woke me up. That was
about 25 of 12. I looked at the clock hanging on the bed.
Senator Fletcher. You mean 25 minutes of 12 ?
Mr. Widgery. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Ship's time ?
Mx. Widgery. I could not say that, sir. I do not know what it
was, except it was 20 and 5 of 12 when I looked at the clock hanging
by my bed.
Senator Fletcher. What did you do ?
Mr. Widgery. It woke me up, and I wondered what it was, and
it seemed to me like a grating, sir. One of the men got up and opened
(( -^-,.^ ^ ff
602 TITANIC DISASTEE.
the port, and it was blowing very cold and we told him to shut it.
We wore talking amongst ourselves for a little while, and I did not
tliink it was much, and turned over and started to go to sleep again.
An order came up that all men had to take their life belts and go up
on deck.
I went down to F deck, and when I got down there, there was
nobody there but our bedroom steward. All the passengers had gone.
I went up on deck to my boat, No. 7.
" Senator Fletchee. WTiich side ?
Mr. WiDGERY. The starboard side. 'When I got up there, it was
I'ust about to be lowered. The purser sent me along to Xo. 9. They
lad taken the canvas off of No. 9 and lowered it, and just then some
biscuits came up from the storekeeper. I helped him put one of the
boxes into the bottom of the boat, and the purser took hold of my
arm and said, ''Get in the boat.'* He said, ''Get iii the boat and help
the boatswain's mate pass the ladies in." So I got in the boat, and
stepped on the side, and we passed the ladies in. We thought we had
them all in, and the purser called out, ''Are there any more women?"
Just then some one said. "Yes." Tlxis woman came along, rather an
oldish ladv, and she was frightened, and she gave me her hand. I
took one hand, and gave it to the boatswain's mate, and he caught
hold of the other hand, and she pulled her hand away, and went back
to the door and would not get iri. One of them went after her, but
she had gone down the stairs.
The chief officer was there and called out for any more women,
and there seemed to be none, and he told the men to get in, four or
five of them. We were filled right up then. Then they started to
lower away.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any more men there ?
Mr. WiDGERY. No, sir; only the men that were put in the boat
to row.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any more men on the deck?
Mr. WiDGERY. Yes, sir; several men up on the deck, quite a lot.
There were no more women there. Then we were lowered down to
the water, and just before we went away the chief officer called out
to the boatswain to keep about 100 yards off. We got into the water,
and I cut loose the oars — I was the only one that had a knife amongst
us — and we stood off a little ways. Of course, we gradually got a
little farther away from them aU the time.
Senator Fletcher. That was the boat Mr. Ward was in?
'Mr. WiDGERY. The same boat; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And all the balance of his statement would be
your statement ?
Mr. WiDGERY. About the same; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you know about any passengers being in
their cabins and not awakened or not aroused ?
Mr. WiDGERY. No, sir; they were all out of that deck before I
went up.
Senator Fletcher. You do not know about the other decks?
Mr. WiDGERY. No, sir; because that is a separate deck of itself —
the forward section of F.
Senator Fletcher. Do vou know whether any water was coming
in?
ti _».«**^ 99
TITAiaO DISASTEB. 603
Mr. WiDOERY. No, sir; I saw no water. We were too far up for
that.
Senator Fletcher. I beKeve that is all I want to ask you, Widgery,
and that would apply also to Ward and Hardy. You had better be
in the hearing room at 10 o'clock in the morning, and the committee
will meet and determine whether we will put you on the stand at
that time.
Thereupon Messrs. Hardy, Ward, and Widgery withdrew from the
room.
TESTIMOHT OF EDWABD JOHlf BUIET.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Fletcher on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Fletcher.
Senator Fletcher. State your full name and address.
Mr. BuLEY. Edward John Buley; 10 Cliff Road, Pear Tree Green,
Itchen, near Southampton.
Senator Flecther. What was your position on the Titanic?
Mr. Buley. Able seaman.
Senator Fletcher. How long had you been serving?
Mr. BuT-EY. This was my first trip, sir. I was just in the merchant
service; I had just left the navy.
Senator Fletcher. How long have you been in the navy ?
Mr. Buley. Altogether, about 13 years.
Senator Fletcher. What pay does a seaman in the merchant
service receive ?
Mr. Buley, Five pound a month.
Senator Fletcher. And board ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Anything else ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Is there any extra money allowed any of the
crew for the saving of life or rescuing people, or anytliing of that
sort, so far as you Know, in the merchant service ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you observe anvthing out of the ordinary
or usual on board ship up to the time of tnis accident ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir. I was sitting in the mess, reading, at the
time when she struck.
Senator Fletcher. Were you on duty ?
Mr. Buley. I was in the watch on deck, the starboard watch.
At 12 o'clock we relieved the other watch.
Senator Fletcher. You were then on your watch ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Where were you sitting, reading ?
Mr. Buley. On the mess deck. If it was Sunday night, we never
had anything to do. Ordinary nights we should have been scrubbing
the decks.
Senator Fletcher. What was your first notice of the collision ?
Mr. Buley. The slight jar. It seemed as though something was
rubbing alongside of her, at the time. I had on mv overcoat and
went up on deck, and they said she had struck an iceoerg.
Senator Fletcher. Who said that ?
604 TITANIO DISASTER.
Mr. BuLEY. I think it was a couple of firemen. They came down.
One of our chaps went and got a handful of ice and took it down
below. They turned in again.
The next order from the chief officer, Murdock, was to tell the sea-
men to get together and uncover the boats and turn them out as
quietly as though nothing had happened. They turned them out in
about 20 minutes.
Senator Fletcher. How do you mean ?
Mr. BuLEY. Uncovered and turned them out. They are on deck,
and the. davits are turned inboard. You have to unscrew these davits
and swing the boat out over the ship's side.
The next order was to lower them down to a line with the ffunwale
of the boat deck, and then fill the boats with women and children.
We turned them up and filled them with women and children.
Senator Fletcher. Where were you stationed ?
Mr. BuLEY. I was over on the starboard side at first, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you lower the boats ?
Mr. BuLEY. I helped lower all the starboard boats.
Senator Fletcher. That is, to lower them as far as the boat deck,
to get the gunwales in line ?
Mr. Bui-EY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. That is the deck on which the boats were ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Not to any lower deck ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir; not to tne lower deck. We lowered all the
starboard boats, and went over and done the same to the port boats.
There was No. 10 boat, and there was no one there, and the chief
officer asked what I was, and I told him, and he said, ^' Jump in and
see if you can find another seaman to give you a hand." I found
Evans, and we both got in the boat, and Chief Officer Murdock and
Baker also was there. I think we were the last hfeboat to be lowered.
We got away from the ship.
Senator Fletcher. How many people were in that boat ?
Mr. BuLEY. From 60 to 70.
Senator Fletcher. Mostly women ?
Mr. BuLEY. Women and childien.
Senator Fletcher. How many men ?
Mr. Buley. There were the steward and one fireman.
Senator Fletcher. And yourself ?
Mr. Buley. And myself and Evans, the able seaman.
Senator Fletcher. That is all the men ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. The other passengers were women ?
Mr. Buley. That is aU there was. AQ the others were ladies and
children.
Senator Fletcher. Were any ladies on the deck when you left ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir. Ours was the last boat up there, and they
went around and called to see if there were anv, ana thej^ threw them
in the boat at the finish, because they didn t like the idea of com-
ing in.
Senator Fletcher. Pushed them in, you mean?
Mr. Buley. Threw them in. One young lady slipped, and they
caught her by the foot on the deck below, and she came up then and
jumped in.
ti ff
TITAKIO DIBASTBB. 605
We got away from the ship, and about an hour afterwards Officer
Lowe came alongside, and he nad his boat filled up, and he distributed
them amon^ the other boats, and be said to all the seamen in the boat
to jump in his boat until he went back among the wreckage to see if
there were any people that had lived.
Senator Fletcher. Did you go in the last boat ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Who had charge of the boat you were in ?
Mr. Buley. I was in charge of that.
Senator Fletcher. But when you left that ?
Mr. Buley. I left that, and I believe he put some more stewards in
the boat to look after the women. All the boats were tied together.
Senator Fletcher. You were then with Lowe in his boat and went
back to where the Titanic sank ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir; and picked up the remaining live bodies.
Senator Fletcher. How many did you get ?
Mr. Buley. There were not very many there. We got four of
them. All the others were .dead.
Senator Fletcher. Were there many dead ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir; there were a good few dead, sir. Of course
you could not discern them exactly on account of the wreckage; but
we turned over several of them to see if they were alive. It looked
as though none of them were drowned. They looked as though
they were frozen. The life belts they had on were that much [indi-
catmg] out of the water, and their heads laid back, with their faces
on the water, several of them. Their hands were coming up like that
[indicating]..
Senator Flecther. They were head and shoulders out of the
water?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. With the head thrown back ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And the face out of the water ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. They were not, apparently, drowned %
Mr. Buley. It looked as though they were frozen altogether, sir.
In the morning, after we picked up all that was alive, there was a
collapsible boat we saw with a lot of people, and she was swamped,
and they were up to their knees in water. We set sail and went over
to them, and in a brief time picked up another one.
Senator Fletcher. Another boat ?
Mr. Buley. Another boat filled with women and children, with
no one to pull the oars, and we took her in tow. We went over to
this one and saved all of them. There was one woman in that boat.
After that we seen the Carpathia coming up, and we made sail and
went over to her. I think we were about the seventh or eighth boat
alongside. During the time I think there was two died that we had
saved; two men.
Senator Fletcher. How far were you from the Titanic when she
went down ?
Mr. Buley. About 250 yards.
Senator Fletcher. Could you see people on the decks before she
went down?
Mr. Buley. No. All the lights were out.
606 TITAKIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. Could you hear the people ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes; you could hear them.
Senator Fletcher. Calling ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Before she went down ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; and we laid to, not because we could give any
assistance, but because the boat I was in was full up, and we had no
one to pull the oars. There was three only to piill the oars, and one
could not pull at aU. He was a fireman. That left but two people
to pull the oars, so I directed the steward to take the coxswain's
watch.
. Senator Fletcher. Before she went down, you could hear people
calling for help ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was there very much of that ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; it was terrible cries, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Most of the witnesses have said they could
hear no cries for help untU after the ship went down.
Mr. BuLEY. This was after the ship went down when we heard
them.
Senator Fletcher. I have been asking you about hearing cries
before the ship went down.
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir; there was no signs of anything before that
at all.
Senator Fletcher. Before the ship went down you did not hear
any cries for help ?
Air. BuLEY. ISo cries whate'wer, sir. Her port bow light was under
water when we were lowered.
Senator Fletcher. How long after you were lowered and put in
the water was it before she went down ?
Mr. BuLEY. I should say about 25 minutes to half an hour.
Senator Fletcher. Was yours the last boat ?
Mr. Buley. Mine was the last lifeboat, No. 10.
Senator Fletcher. Were the collapsibles lowered after that 1
Mr. Buley. The collapsibles were washed off the deck, I believe,
sir. The one we picked up that was swamped, I think they dropped
her and broke her back, and that is why they could not open her.
Senator Fletcher. Were there people in that collapsible?
Mr. Buley. She was full up, sir; that is the one we rescued the
first thing in the morning.
Senator Fletcher. How soon after the Titanic went down was it
before you got back there with Lowe to help rescue people?
Mr. Buley. From an hour to an hour and a half.
Senator Fletcher. And your idea is that the people were frozen.
Mr. Buley. Yes, frozen.
Senator Fletcher. Frozen in the meantime ?
Mr. Buley. If the water had been warm, I imagine none of them
would have been drowned, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Then you got some people out of the water,
and some of those died after you rescued them, did they ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were they injured in any wav ? '
Mr. Buley. No, sir. I think it was exposure and. shock.
Senator Fletcher. On account of the cold ?
t( -»»... .^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 607
Mr. BuLET. Yes, sir. We had no stimulants in the boat to revive
them, at all.
Senator Fletcher. They seemed to be very cold when you got
them out of the water ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir, and helpless.
Senator Fletcher. Numb ?
Mr. Bullet. Yes, sir. There were several in the broken boat
hat could not walk. Their legs and feet were all cramped. They
had to stand up in the water in that boat.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know of any banquets or drinking on
board the ship that night ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. So far as vou know, the crew were sober.
Mr. BuLEY. The crew were all asleep, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any of the crew arousing people or
giving the alarm?
Mr. BuLEY. That was the steward's work, sir. We had nothmg to
do wdth that.
Senator Fletcher. The question is whether you observed it, in
an V wav i
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir. We were away from the saloons altogether.
We were in the forecastle head.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know when the water began to come
into the ship ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; a little after she struck. You could hear it.
Senator Fletcher. Inunediately ?
Mr. BuLEY. You could hear it immediately. Down where we
were, there was a hatchway, right down below, and there was a tar-
paulin across it, with an iron batten. You could hear the water
rushing in, and the pressure of air underneath it was such that you
could see this bending. In the finish I was told it blew off.
Senator Fletcher. What part of the ship would you call that ?
Mr. BuLEY. The forecastle head.
Senator Fletcher. How far was that from the bow ?
Mr. BuLEY. About 20 yards, I should think.
Senator Fletcher. That condition could not have obtained unless
the steel plates had been torn off from the side of the ship ?
Mr. BuLEY. From the bottom of the ship. It was well underneath
the water line.
Senator Fletcher. And the plates must have been ripped off by
the iceberg ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. There was no way of closing that up so as to
prevent water coming in ?
Mr. Buley. It was already closed up. The carpenter went down
and tested the weUs, and found she was making water, and the order
was given to turn the boats out as well as possiUe, and then to get the
life belts on.
Senator Fletcher. Could not that ship take a great deal of water
and still float ?
Mr. Buley. She ought to be able to do it, sir.
Senator Fletcher. There was no way of filling one compartment
completely, and stiU not affecting the other part of it ?
608 TITANIC DIBASTEB.
Mr. BuLET. No. I should think if that had been a small hole, saj
about 12 by 12 feet square, in a collision, or anything like that, it
would have been all right; but I do not think they carried collision
mats.
Senator Fletoheb. What is a collision mat ?
Mr. BuLEY. It is a mat to shove over the hole to keep the water
from rushing in.
Senator Fletoheb. You think she did not carry collision mats ?
Mr. BuLEY. I do not believe she did. I never saw one.
Senator Fletoheb. Did you ever see collision mats used on mer-
chant ships ?
Mr. BuLEY. I had never been on a merchant ship before. I have
seen them frequently used in the navy.
Senator Fletoheb. You think if she had had collision mats, she
might have been saved ?
Mr. BuLEY. That would not have done much good with her, be-
cause I believe she was ripped up right along.
Senator Fletoheb. For what distance ?
Mr. BuLEY. I should say half way alon^, according to where the
water was. I should say the bottom was redly ripped open altogether.
Senator Fletoheb. The steel bottom ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletoheb. So no amount of mats would have done any
good?
Mr. BuLEY. It would not have done any good in that case. Should
the ship have had a collision or anything hke that, it would have
done some good.
Senator Fletoheb. You did not see the iceberg t
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir. I never saw any ice until morning. We
thought it was a fuU-rigged ship. We were right in amongst the
wreckage, and we thought it was a sailing ship, until the light came on
and we saw it was an iceberg.
Senator Fletoheb. Did you get very far away from where the
Titanic went down before the Carpathia was in sight 1
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir. When the Carpa4hia came and hove to, we
were still amongst the wreckage looking for bodies.
Senator Fletoheb. By that time there were none of those afloat
who were alive, so far as vou could see ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir; there were no more alive, then.
Senator Fletoheb. The life belts were all in good condition, were
they ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, all new life belts. When you once put them on,
there is no fear of them pulling off again in the water.
Senator Fletoheb. Do you think there was a sufficient number of
life belts for all the passengers ?
Mr. BuLBY. Yes, sir; more than sufficient. Of course the seamen
did not have a chance to get them — did not have time to get them.
Senator Fletoheb. The seamen ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletoheb. Did the passengers have time, after the alarm
was given, to get the belts i
Mr. BuLEY. They had the belts on a good hour before she went
down.
ii -»»..»«^ f9
IITANIO DISASTEB. 609
Senator Fletcher. You think all the passengers were notified
andjwere able to get out of their cabins ?
Mr. BuLEY. I should say so. They were all on the boat deck.
Senator Fletcher. What became of them ? You got all that were
in sight when you loaded the last boat ?
Mr. Buley. We loaded all the women we could see, and the chief
officer rushed around trying to find more, and there was none, and our
boat was lowered away.
Senator Fletcher. What became of the passengers on the boat ?
Mr. Buley. They were taken aboard the Carpathia.
Senator Fletcher. I mean all the passengers on the Titanic?
Mr. Buley. I could not say, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see them around the deck when
you were leaving?
Mr. Buley. When we left they were still working, getting rafts
ready, and throwing chairs- over the side.
Senator Fletcher. Getting rafts ready ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How many rafts were there ?
Mr. Buley. That is, what they call rafts. They did not have time
to make any rafts.
Senator Fletcher. Who was doing that ?
Mr. Buley. The stewards and the firemen.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any passengers jumping overboard ?
Mr. Buley. I never seen anyone jump overboard, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any passengers on the deck when
you left?
Mr. Buley. Only men, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were there many of those ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir; there were plenty of them, sir. If she had had
sufficient boats I think everyone would have been saved.
Senator Fletcher. Were these men that you saw on deck desiring
or wanting to get into the boats ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Or did they seem to think the ship was going
to float ?
Mr. Buley. I think that is what the majority thought, that the
ship would float. They thought she would go down a certain dis-
tance and stop there.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear any of them say that ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, several of them. They said they were only getting
the boats out for exercise and in case of accident.
Senator Fletcher. After you left her, her bow continued to go
under ?
Mr. Buley. Settled down; yes, sir. She went down as far as the
afterfunnel, and then there was a Uttle roar, as though the engines
had rushed forward, and she snapped in two, and the dow part went
down and the afterpart came up and staid up five minutes before it
went down.
Senator Fletcher. Was that perpendicular ?
Mr. Buley. It was horizontal at first, and then went down.
Senator Fletcher. What do you mean by saying she snapped in
two?
Mr. Buley. She parted in two.
610 TITANIC DISASTER,
Senator Fletcher. How do vou know that?
]Mr. BuLEY. Because we could see the afterpart afloat, and there
was no forepart to it. I think she must have parted where the
bunkers were. She parted at the last, because the afterpart of her
settled out of the wat^r horizontally after the other part went down.
First of all you could see her propellers and everything. Her rudder
was clear out of the water. You could hear the rush of the machinery,
and she parted in two, and the afterpart settled down again, and we
thought the afterpart would float altogether.
Senator Fletcher. The afterpart kind of righted up horizontally?
Mr. BuLEY. She uprighted herself for about five minutes, and then
tipped over and disappeared.
Senator Fletcher. Did it go on the side ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir; went dow^n headforemost.
Senator Fletcher. That makes vou beUeve the boat went in two ?
Mr. BLT.EY. Yes, sir. You could see she went in two, because we
were quite near to her and could see her quite plainly.
Senator Fletcher. You were near and could see her quite plainly?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any people on her ?
Mr. BuLEY. I never saw a soul.
Senator Fletcher. You must have been too far away to see that?
Mr. BuLEY. It was dark.
Senator Fletcher. Were there lights on that half part ?
Mr. BuLEY. The lights were all out. The lights went out gradually
before she disappeared.
Senator Fletcher. Notwithstanding the darkness you could see
the outline of the ship ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; we could see the, outline of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. You could see the funnel ?
Mr. BuLEY. Quite plainly.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any cinders or sparks or anything
of that sort from the funnel ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir. We were lying to there. The people in the
boat were very frightened that there would be some suction. If there
had been any suction we should have been lost. We were close to her.
We couldn't get away fast enough. There was nobody to pull away.
Senator Fletcher. How far were you when she went down ?
Mr. Buley. We were about 200 yards.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know the names of the men in the boat
with you ?
Mr. Buley. I only know one, sir. That is Evans, able seaman.
Senator Fletcher. Is he here ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir; he is coming up to-night at 8 o'clock-
Senator Fletcher. Who was in charge of your boat ?
Mr. Buley. I was, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know anything else about this matter,
or is there anything that you could think of that would throw any
light on it ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir; I think that is all I know.
Senator Fletcher. In what capacity were you employed in the
navy?
Mr. Buley. Able seaman and seaman gunner.
it „.^^.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 611
Senator Fletcheb. You do not have lifeboats in the navy ?
Mr. BtJLEY. Yes; they do, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do they have enough for the men ?
Mr. BuLEY. Oh, no; not enough for the men. They have enough
for the men just on ordinary occasions, like calm water; that is, if
they could get them out in tune.
senator Fletcher. Your opinion is, if they had had enough life-
boats here, these people could all have been saved ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, su*; they could all have been saved.
There was a ship of some description there when she struck, and
she passed right by us. We thought she was coming to us; and if
she had come to us, everyone could riave boarded her. You could see
she was a steamer. She had her steamer lights biu*ning.
She was off oiu* port bow when we struck, and we all started for
the same light, ana that is what kept the boats together.
Senator Fletcher. But you never heard of that ship any more ?
Mr. BuLEY. No ; we could not see anything of her m the morning
when it was daylight. She was stationary allnight; I am very posi-
tive for about three hours she was stationary, and then she made
tracks.
Senator Fletcher. How far away was she ?
Mr. BuLEY. I should judge she was about 3 miles.
Senator Fletcher. A\Tiy could not she see your skyrockets ?
Mr. BuLEY. She could not help seeing them. She was close enough
to see our lights and to see the ship itself, and also the rockets. Sne
was bound to see them.
Senator Fletcher. You are quite certain that it was a ship ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; it was a ship.
Senator Fletcher. IIow many lights did you see ?
Mr. Bxn^EY. I saw two masthead lights.
Senator Fletcher. No stern lights ?
Mr. BuLEY. You could not see the stern lights. You could not see
her bow lights. We were in the boat at the time.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see that ship before you were in the
water ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; I saw it from the ship. That is what we told
the passengers. We said, ''There ia a steamer coming to our as-
sistance.'' That is what kept them quiet, I think.
Senator Fletcher. Did she come toward you bow on ?
Mr. Bl^ley. Yes, sir; bow on toward us; and then she stopped,
and the lights seemed to go right by us.
Senator Fletcher. If she had gone by you, she would have been
to your stem ?
Mr. BuLEY. She was stationary there for about three hours, I think,
off our port,. there, and when we were in the boat we all made for her,
and she went by us. The northern lights are just like a searchlight,
but she disappeared. That was astern of where the ship went down.
Senator Fletcher. She gave no signal ?
Mr. BuLEY. No signal whatever. I could not say whether she
gave a signal from the bridge or not. You could not see from where
we were, though.
Senator Fletcher. Do you suppose she was fastened in the ice ?
Mr. BuLEY. I could not say what she was.
4047&— PT 7—12 7
612 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fj^etcher. She must have known the Titanic was in
distress ?
Mr. BuLEY. She must have known it. They could have seen the
rockets and must have known there was some distress on.
Senator Fletcher. The Titanic had sirens ?
Mr. Buley. Yes; she had sirens, but she never blew them. They
fired rockets.
Senator Fletcher. They did not blow the siren or whistle ?
Mr. Buley. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. But the steam was escaping and making quite
fr noise ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir; you could not hear yourself speak then. That
had quieted down. The firemen went down and drew nearly all the
fires.
Senator Fletcher. When she went down, she had no fire in her of
any consequence?
Mr. Buley. She might have had fire, but very little.
Senator Fletcher. When did you first see that boat on the bow ?
How long was it before you launched ?
Mr. Buley. When we started turning the boats out. That was
about 10 minutes after she struck.
Senator Fletcher. Did that boat seem to be getting farther away
from you ?
Mr. Buley. No; it seemed to be coming nearer.
Senator Fletcher. You are possessed of pretty good eyes ?
Mr. Buley. I can see a distance of 21 miles, sir.
Senator Fletcher. This was a clear night and no fog ?
Mr. Buley. A clear night and no fog.
Senator Fletcher. A smooth sea ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You are quite positive there was no illusion
about that boat ahead ?
Afr. Buley. It must have been a boat, sir. It was too low down
in the sea for a star. Then we were quite convinced afterwards,
because we saw it go right by us when we were in the lifeboats. We
thought she was coming toward us to pick us up.
Senator Fletcher. How far away was she ?
Mr. Buley. Tliree miles, sir, I should judge.
Senator Fletcher. When did you last see the captain that night ?
Mr. Buley. I never saw him at all, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What officers were in sight when you left the
ship?
Mr. Buley. Chief Officer Murdock was the last one I saw.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see Mr. Ismay that night i
Mr. Buley. I do not know him.
Senator Fletcher. Boat No. 10 was on the port side ?
Mr. Buley. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Who helped lower it ? I believe you said you
helped to lower all the boats ?
Mr. Buley. I helped to lower all of them. Chief Officer Murdock
ordered me into the boat, finally, and he said, **Is there any more
seamen?" I said, '*No, sir."
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Ismay got in one of the boats ?
t^ . ^ ^ Tf
TITANIC DISASTER. 613
Mr. BuLEY. I do not know which one it was. No. 12 was the last
boat before me to be lowered, and Evans was one of the men that
lowered that boat, and after he lowered that away I called him and
told him Chief Officer Murdock gave me orders to find a seaman and
tell him to come in the boat with me, and he jumped in my boat.
Senator Fletcher. Was boat No. 12 loaded to* its fufl capacity?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Mostly women ?
Mr. BuLEY. All women* and children; except, of course, a couple
pulling.
Senator Fletcher. Only two men ?
Mr. BuLEY. They generally ran two seamen and one fireman and a
steward to each boat.
Senator Fletcher. Do vou know how many there were in No. 12 ?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. Do you think there were no male passengers
in No. 12?
Mr. BuLEY. I was told afterwards that there were a couple of
Japanese in our boat. They never got in our boat unless thev came
in there dressed up as women.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know if they actually were there ?
Mr. BuLEY. I can say I never saw them there.
Senator Fletcher. When you unloaded them ?
Mr. BuLtY. I did not unload them. I was on the other boat at
the time when they unloaded. We were alongside with the rescued
people out of one collapsible boat, and towing the other boat behind
us, the one Mr. Lowe was in.
Senator Fletcher. That is one of the collapsible boats ?
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir; one we were towing, sir. There was one we
were told not to use, which was a surf boat.
Senator Fletcher. You did not have any life rafts at all on the
ship?
Mr. BuLEY. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. I believe that is all I care to ask you. You
will be good enough to appear at 10 o'clock to-morrow morning
before the committee.
Mr. BuLEY. Yes, sir.
Thereupon, at 6.15 o'clock p. m., the hearing before Senator
Fletcher was closed.
The taking of testimony before Senator Bourne was begun at 4.30
o'clock p. m.
TESTIHOBT OF GEOBGE FBEDERICK GEO WE.
[Testimony taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. Kindly state your name, age, and occupation.
Mr. Crowe. George Frederick "Crowe; 1809 Melton Road, Fitz-
hugh, Southampton, England; my age, 30; occupation, steward.
. Senator Bourne. Were you on the Titanic at the time of the
disaster ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
{( fj
614 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been on that ship ?
Mr. Crowe. We sailed from Southampton April 10; two days
previous to that I was working aboard slup, in and out, to the dock.
Senator Boitrne Had you been in the Wliite Star service before ?
Mr. Crowe No, sir.
Senator Bourne. This was your first voyage in the White Star
service ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; I had been in the International Mercantile
Marine Co ; that is connected with the American line.
Senator Bourne. How long have you followed the sea?
Mr. Crowe. For about 11 jears.
Senator Bourne. Always m the capacity of steward ?
Mr. Crowe No, sir; I have always been in the stew^ard's depart-
ment, but on my last trip I was storekeeper and barkeeper.
Senator Bourne But you were steward on the TUanicf
Mr. Crowe I was steward on the Titanic^ yos.
Senator Bourne Wliat were the duties of steward on the Titanicf
Mr. Crowe To a( t in general and wait on tables.
Senator Bourne. Under what officer of the ship w^ere you. directly
located, or to whom were you responsible?
Mr. Crowe The chief steward.
Senator Bourne Will vou please state in your own way what
knowledge you have in reference to the accident to the Titamcf
Mr. Crowe I was on duty up until about 10 30 on the night of the
disaster, and I turned in about 11 o'clock; it might have been a little
later. About 1 1.40 there was a kind of shaking of the ship and a little
impact, from which I thought one of the propellers had been broken off.
Senator Bourne You were in your bertli at the time ?
Mr. Crowe. I was in my berth; yes.
Senator Bourne. And had gone to sleep ?
Mr. Crowe. No; I was just dozing.
Senator Bourne. Did it shake you out of your berth ?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. How much of a shock was it ?
Mr. Crowe. Well, had I been asleep I do not think it would have
awakened me; that is, had I been in a heavy sleep.
Senator Bourne. What deck were you sleeping on?
Mr. Crowe. On ''E" deck.
Senator Bourne. How far away from the bow of the ship; amid-
ship ?
Mr. Crowe. About amidship; yes. Probably 50 feet forward of
amidship.
Senator Bourne. Now will you kindly go on?
Mr. Crowe. I got out of my bed. I came out into the alleyway and
saw Quite a number of stewards and steerage passengers carrying
their oaggage from forward to aft. I inquired of the trouble and was
told it was nothing, and to turn in again.
Senator Bourne. Who told you tms, the steerage passengers?
Mr. Crowe. No; somebody amongst the boys. The stewards
were making quite a joke of it. They did not think of the seriousness
of it at the time. I went back to my bunk again, and a saloon
steward came down shortly afterwards and told me to come up on
the upper deck with as much warm clothes on as I could get. I went
up on the boat deck; when I got outside of the companionway, I saw
t( ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB. 615
them working on boat No. 1. After that I went to boat No. 14, the
boat allotted to me — that is, in the case of fire or boat drill — and I
stood by according to the proceedings of the drill. I assisted in
handing the women and children into the boat, and was asked if I
could take an oar, and I said *' Yes/' and was told to man the boat.
Senator Boukne. Who told you to man the boat ?
Mr. Crowe. The senior officer. I am not sure whether it was the
first officer or the chief officer, sir, but I beUeve the man's name was
Murdock.
Senator Bourne. Was that his boat ?
Mr. Crowe. I do not think so, sir; no.
Senator Bourne. Who was in charge, during the drills, of boat
No. 14; which officer?
Mr. Crowe. The fifth officer. Mr. Lowe.
Senator Bourne. That was nis boat ?
Mr. Crowe. That was his boat; yes, sir. After getting the women
and children in, we lowered down within 4 or 5 feeV of the water and
found the block and tackle had gotten twisted in some way, causing
us to have to cut the ropes to allow the boat to get into the water.
Senator Bourne. Who called to you to do that ?
Mr. Crowe. The fifth officer, sir.
Senator Bourne. He was in the boat with you ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir. I stood by the lever. The lever releases
the blocks from the hooks in the boat, and he told me to wait, to get
away and cut the line to raise the lever, thereby causing the hooks to
open and allow the boat to drop in the water. After getting into the
water we pushed out to the other boats. Fifth Officer I^we sug-
gested standing by in case of any necessity for us to do so.
Senator Bourne. How many occupants were in there in boat
No. 14?
Mr. Crowe. Fifty-seven women and children and about 6 men, in-
cluding 1 officer; and I may have been 7; I am not quite sure about
that.
Senator Bourne. How did you come to know there were 57 women
and children ?
Mr. Crowe. When we got out a distance the officer asked me
how many people we had in the boat, thinking the other boats
had not got theu* number, and it was his idea to put our people into
their boats and return back.
Senator Bourne. Feehng that you were overcrowded?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir; his idea was to stand by in case of an emer-
gency; that is, anybody coming over the sides, with the idea of pick-
ing tfiem up. I might state in between there the boat had sprung a
leak and taken in water, probably 8 inches of water. That is, when
the boat was released ana fell, I think she must have sprung a leak.
Senator Bourne. How long after the boat fell in the water did you
discover that there was probably 8 inches of water in the boat ?
Mr. Crowe. Well, sir, we did not keep time or anything Uke that,
but I should imagine when we transferred our people was when we
discovered the amount of water that was in the boat, because just
prior to getting to the other boat a lady stated that there was some
water coming over her ankles, and two men and this lady — I believe
the lady — assisted in bailing it out with bails that were kept in the
boat for that purpose.
(( — -..«— ^ 9f
616 TITANIC BISASTBB.
Senator Bourne. Explain what you mean by when you trans-
ferred your people.
Mr. Crowe. The officerr on one of the boatf that was near to us
tola them to stand by, and be got, I think, four or maybe five boats
together. We transferred so many people from one boat to the other
boats; we distributed from here to there.
Senator Bourne. Your reason for transferring was because of this
8 inches of water ?
Mr. Crowe. No ; he decided to return to the wreckage and see if he
could pick anybody up.
Senator Bourne, i oii had 57 men, women, and children in your
boat, and 7 men in addition. You were pretty well loaded, were you
not?
Mr. Crowe. The officer said we could take 80 people in all, but the
ladies seemed to make a protest at his idea of going back again with
these people in the boat.
Senator Bourne. Would it not have been easier to take one of these
boats that was not nearly as full as your boat and have them stand by
the wreckage and have them try to pick up people ?
. Mr. Crowe. No, becauFe the other boats were without an officer.
We were the only boat out of the bunch that was there with an
officer.
Senator Bourne. Then it was discipline ?
Mr. Crowe. Just a matter of discipline.
Senator Bourne. Now, if you will, go on with the story.
Mr. Crowe. Returning back to tne wreckage, we heard various
cries, and endeavored to get among them, and we were successful in
doing so and in picking one body up that was floating around in the
water; when we got nim into the boat — after great difficulty, he
being such a heavy man — he expired shortly afterwards, (joing
farther into the wreckage we came across a steward or one of the
crew, and we got him into the boat, and he was very cold and his
hands were kind of stiff, but we got him in and he recovered by the
time we got back to the Carpathia,
Senator Bourne. Did he survive?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; also a Japanese or Cliinese youns fellow
that we picked up on top of some of the wreckage — it mi^t have
been a sideboard or table — that was floating around. We stopped
until daybreak, and we saw in the distance a raft or Berthon ooat
submerged, in the distance, with a crowd of men on it. We went
over to the boat and found probably 20, or there might have been
25, men and 1 woman; also 3 or 4 dead bodies, which we left. Re-
turning again under canvas sail — we stepped our mast at night — ^we
took in tow a collapsible boat containing fully 60 people — women,
children, and men.
Senator Bourne. How much water was there in your boat at that
time? Was there still 8 inches, or had you any water in there at
at that time ?
Mr. Crowe. After we got some people out of our boat and returned
to the wreck we did not take in so much water, because we bailed a
certain amount of water out and no more seemed to come in.
Senator Bourne. Then you infer that the strain was among the
upper timbers, near the gunwale ?
i4 ff
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 617
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; I think, the boat being new, the wood had
warped sufficiently to not prevent the water from coming in. Then
we returned alongside the Carpatkia, and then we landed our people.
That is the story, sir.
Senator Boukne. You were in boat No. 14 when it was lowered?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any shooting that occurred at the time
the boat was lowered ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Explain to tlie committee what knowledge or
information you have relative to that ?
Mr. Crowe. There were various men passengers, probably Italians-
or some foreign nationality other than English or American, who
attempted to rush the boats. The officers threatened to shoot any
man who put his foot into the boat. He fired the revolver, but either
downward or upward, not shooting at any of the passengers at all and
not injuring anybody. He fired perfectly clear, upward or downward.
Senator Bourne. Did that stop the rush ?
Mr. C^owE. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. There was no disorder after that ?
Mr. Crowe. No disorder. Well, one woman was crying, but that
was all; no panic or any tiling in the boat.
Senator Bourne. You were assigned to boat No. 14 ?
Jfr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. As soon as you joined the ship ?
Mr. Crowe. Well, we sailed on Wednesday, and 1 probably saw the
list on Thursday or Fridajr.
Senator Bourne. That is, of your assignment ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; because there was a notice there to the effect
that we would have muster and fire drill on Sunday at 11.30, and I
inquired whether we would have it or not; but we did not, however.
oenator Bourne. You joined the ship on Tuesday, the ship sailed
on Wednesday, April the 10th, and the first notification you had that
that there would De a muster or fire drill on the boat, or information
that you were allotted to boat No. 14, was what day ?
Mr. Crowe. It was either Thursday or Friday, sir; I am not quite
certain.
Senator Bourne. And that notification consisted of your seeing
the station bill which contained the information that the muster or
fire drill would be held on Sunday, at 11.30 o'clock?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. A. m.
Mr. Crowe. A. m. ; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did they hold drill that day ?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were there any musters or fire drills held on the
ship durii^ the trip, up to the time of the accident ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes; I believe it was customary for the bedroom
stewards each morning, when the captain went around for inspec-
tion, to close all water-tight doors and unroll the fire hoso, or to
stand by. I don't know exactly what they did.
Senator Bourne. That is the fire drill ?
Mr. Crowe. That is the fire drill; yes, sir.
618 " TITAKIO " DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. It is your opinion that that was done every day,
is it?
Mr. Crowe. Well, I am under the impression that it was done.
I can not answer for certain, sir.
Senator Bourne. So far as any boat maneuvers or any boat drills
are concerned, did you have any ?
Mr. Crowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Bourne. If there had been any you would have partici-
pated in the same, having been allotted to boat No. 14, would you
not?
Mr. Crowe. Exactly.
Senator Bourne. On other ships or lines in which you have sailed
have you been allotted to lifeboats ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. In such cases did they hold daily or weekly drills ?
Mr. Crowe. Once a week, sir, in port and out.
Senator Bourne. Once a week, in port and out. But there was
no drill on the Titanic?
Mr. Crowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Bourne. Explain, if you will, the procedure of your life-
boat drills that you have participated in on other trips?
Mr. Crowe. It has always been the custom to put a notice in
various parts of the ship that fire drill will be held at a certain tinie
on a certain day. Five minutes previous to this time the bugle is
sounded for fire drill, and all men go to fire drill. Either the chief
officer or the officer in charge visits the various stations and sees
that all members of the crew are present. They satisfy themselves
that all members of the crew are present, and report to the bridge
to that effect. The fog horn or siren is blown for boat drill. ^I
men proceed to boats. The captain, after the men are in readiness,
inspects all men at the boats and sees if all men are present. In
some cases he orders boats to be lowered and put baelc into their
sockets if satisfactory at the time. If not, repeat. That is the
custom of the American line.
Senator Bourne. That is the custom on the American line ?
- Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. So far as you know, there is the same custom
on the English lines, ordinarily?
Mr. Crowe. Well, I believe so, ordinarily. I have not been on
the English lines for quite a while. I ran out of London on the
P. & O. Line to Australia some 12 years ago, but since then I have
been on the American line.
Senator Bourne. The fact that they had no drills did not that
create comment among your associates and the other stewards ?
Mr. Crowe. That I could not say, sir; it appears from everybody
here that I know, that they were assigned.
Senator Bourne. Then you heard no comment among the men
on the ship ?
Mr. Crowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Bourne. Occasioned by the fact that there was no drill ?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. What explanation did you hear, if any, as to
the reason why the call for muster and fire drill for Sunday at 11.30
was not <*arried out in accordance with your notice ?
it -.^....^^ 99
TITAKIO DISASTER. 619
Mr. Crowe. Well, I can not say, with the exception that they held
held church service at 10.30 Sunday morning.
Senator Bourne. And the service continued over the time ?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir; it was over soon after 11 o'clock.
Senator Bourne. And there was no explanation given for the
suspension of the order?
Mr. Crowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Bourne. You know, however, the order was not carried
out and there was no drill at that time, and you saw the official notice
for the drill at that time ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You saw; that notice a day or two before Sunday ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; I saw two notices, one put up in the crew's
department — crew's quarters — and one in the first-class service
pantry.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear among the men or passengers any
criticism toward any officer because of the accident, in any way ?
Mr. Crowe. None whatever, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any blame centralized on the com-
pany or any individual because of the accident ?
Mr. Crowe. Not that I know of, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you yourself see the iceberg?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir; not tne one that struck the ship — or, the
ship struck the berg. Of course, there were two or three bergs around,
ana one man pointed out that that must have been the oerg, and
another man pointed out another berg. Really, I do not thins any-
body knew which one struck the ship.
Senator Bourne. When it became daylight and you could see,
were there a number of bergs around you ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; I think there were three very large bergs.
Senator Bourne. Where was the station drill for fire and boats
posted ?
Mr. Crowe. In the first-class service pantiy and in the crew's
quarters.
Senator Bourne. Do you know when the bills were posted ?
Mr. Crowe. Either Thursday or Friday ?
Senator Bourne. After sailing ?
Mr. Crowe. After sailing; yes.
Senator Bourne. Did you and boat No. 14, with those that were
with you manning the boat, return to the wreck as soon as your
passengers were shifted into the other boat ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; almost immediately. There might have
been a lapse of 5 or 10 minutes, perhaps.
Senator Bourne. For what reason was that lapse; for the purpose
of shifting your passengers to the other boat so you could return to
the wreckage ?
Mr. Crowe. Because, endeavoring to get the other boats together,
we were making a circle after each other, and consequently we lost
our bearings, and we did not know in which direction to go.
Senator Bourne. Did you know of any water on E deck ?
Mr. Crowe. Only from hearing other people speak of it.
Senator Bourne. Would you state wnat you heard in reference to
water being on E deck ?
620 TITANIC DIBABTEB.
Mr. Crowe. A stewardess — I do not know her name — said that as
she came from her cabin she could see the water coming up.
Senator Bourne. Could see it coming up ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. On E deck ?
Mr. Crowe. On E deck.
Senator Bourne. And that was all ?
Mr. Crowe. That was all; yes.
Senator Bourne. Did you see the ship sink ?
Mr. Crowe. I did, sir.
Senator Bourne. Would you explain in your own way how it
appeared to you ?
Mr. Crowe. When we left the ship her head was down in the water
probably several feet; I could not say the distance, or any angle.
Senator Bourne. And you left the ship how many minutes or
hours after she struck ?
Mr. Crowe. It might have been an hour; it might have been more.
After getting clear of the ship the lights were still burning very bright,
but as we got away she seemed to ^o lower and lower, and she almost
stood up perpendicular, and her lights went dim, and presently she
broke clean in two, probably two- thirds of the length ot the ship.
Senator Bourne. That is, two-thirds out of 3ie water or two-
thirds in the water ?
Mr. Crowe. Two-thirds in the water, one- third of the aft funnel
sticking up.
Senator Bourne. How long did that tliird stick up '?
Mr. Crowe. After she floated back again.
Senator Bourne. She floated back?
Mr. Crowe. She broke, and the after part floated back.
Senator Bourne. And the bow part, two-thirds of the ship, sank.
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; then there was an explosion, and the aft
part turned on end and sank.
Senator Bourne. Then you attribute the sinking to the explosion.
You believe it would have floated, had it not been for the explosion?
Mr. Crowe. That I can not say, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did the officer in charge of your boat express any
opinion on that, at all ?
Mr. Crowe. He said he thought it best to return back to the
wreckage and see if we could save any lives. At that time we had
not put our people into the other boats.
vSenator Bourne. How long a time after you left the ship did it
break and the explosion and sinking of the ait part of the ship take
place, would you judge?
Mr. Crowe. She sank around half past 2, from statements made
by a man that was supposed to have jumped from the poop of the
snip — that is, the quarter deck — into the water. He had a watch
on, and as his watch stopped at 20 minutes past 2, he said she was
in a sinking condition then and her stem on end — a man named Bur-
nett, a storekeeper aboard ship.
Senator Bourne. Did you, yourself, hear the explosion?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there one, or more ?
Mr. Crowe. There were several explosions.
Senator Bourne. Were they loud, like a cannon ?
ft ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEH. 621
Mr. Crowe. Not so loud as that, sir.
Senator Bourne. Muffled ?
Mr. Crowe. A kind of muffled explosion. It seemed to be an
explosion at a very great distance, although we were not very far
away.
Senator Bourne. How far, would you judge; about a quarter of
a mile?
Mr. Crowe. About a mile.
Senator Bourne. You were about a mile away ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Officer Lowe, you say, was in charge of your
boat?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir; I am certain of it.
Senator Bourne. The fifth officer ?
Mr. Crowe. The fifth officer, Mr. Lowe.
Senator Bourne. And that was his boat ?
Mr. Crowe. That was his boat.
Senator Bourne. There were six officers on the ship, were there ?
Mr. Crowe. Seven, I think, sir.
Senator Bourne. And the captain ?
Mr. Crowe. And the captain.
Senator Bourne. Now, taking the 20 boats, were there several of
the boats allotted to each officer, under his direction ?
iSr, Crowe. E^ch officer takes charge of one boat, including the
captain.
Senator Bourne. That would account for 8 out of the 20 boats.
Who had charge of the remaining 12 boats ?
Mr. Crowe. Either a quartermaster, or an engineer, or a senior
man that may likely be in the boat.
Senator Bourne. They have their allotment prior to sailing, or
soon after sailing ?
Mr. Crowe, i es, sir.
Senator Bourne. So that each man knows his station i
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And is responsible for that boat ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did Officer Lowe call for volunteers to return to
the wreck ?
Mr. Crowe. No, sir; he impressed upon us that we must go back
to the wreck.
Senator Bourne. Was there any protest ?
}At, Crowe. None whatever, sir. A second-class passenger named
Williams, the champion racket player of England, returned with us.
Senator Boxtrne. He volunteered his service ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. He was not requested by Officer Lowe ?
Mr. Crowe. Not at all, sir.
Senator Bourne. He did so of his own volition ?
Mr. Crowe. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Did you find ice on the ship before you left it ?
Mr. Crowe. I did not find it myself, sir. Another man brought
a piece along from the forward part of the ship.
Senator K>urne. On what deck ?
Mr. Crowe. On E deck.
622 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. He took it from E deck ?
Mr. Crowe. I could not be certain about that, sir.
Senator Bourne. But it is your impression he got it from E deck,
but you do not know ?
Mr. Crowe. I was on E deck when he came along with it.
Senator Bourne. Do you know of ice being found on any of the
higher decks above E deck ?
Mr. Crowe. I heard there was several hundred tons of ice found.
Senator Bourne. That will be all now, thank you.
TESTIMONY OF G. E. ANDREWS.
[Testimony taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. Please state j^our name, age, and occupation.
Mr. Andrews. C. E. Andrews; age, 20; 125 Millbrook Road, South-
ampton; occupation, steward.
Senator Bourne. How long have you followed the sea ?
Mr. Andrews. This is my fourth year, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been a steward ?
Mr. Andrews. I have been a steward now, sir — this is my fourth
year, sir.
Senator Bourne. When you started to sea, you started in the
capacitv of a steward, did you ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; officer's steward.
Senator Bourne. Were you on the Titanic on her maiden voyage ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. When did you join the ship?
Mr. Andrews. On Wednesday morning, sir, the day of the sailing;
the 10th of April.
Senator Bourne. And you were with her up until the time of the
catastrophe ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were you allotted to any of the Ufeboats or
emergency boats or rafts ?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know anything about that, sir; but a friend
of mine, a steward, second class, he told me to go and see what mv
boat was, on Sunday morning, and just before breakfast he came back
and told me it was No. 16.
Senator Bourne. Did you go to No. 16 at the time of the accident ?
Mr. Andrews. I did, sir.
Senator Bourne. WTiat officer was in charge of No. 16?
Mr. Andrews. I could not tell you what officer, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was it an officer, or one of the petty officers?
Mr. Andrews. An officer, sir.
Senator Bourne. Had you sailed with the White Star Line prior
to this voyage ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir: I had been with the WTiite Star Line just
four years.
Senator Bourne. And your service has been with them ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. In aU of the four years^ service as steward with
them have you participated in any of their fire or boat driUs ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
tt „«,,». ^^,^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 62^
Senator Bourne. How often have tliey been held ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, they have been held on Sunday. They muster
in New York, or hold muster in New York, and then there is one on
the Sunday home, sir.
Senator Bourne. During your voyages have you held anv of these
driUs?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any held on the maiden voyage of the
Titanic?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any notice of any drill ?
Mr. Andrews. That I do not know, sir.
Senator Bourne. You saw none ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. You know that no drills were held ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. If there had been, you would have had to par-
ticipate ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And you would have been censured for not being
at the drill if one was held ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Will you explain for the information of the com-
mittee what knowledge you have of what occurred innnediately prior
to and followmg the catastrophe of the Titanicf
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir. I came off watch about a quarter to 11
and went down and turned in. About 20 minutes after that I was
wakened up by a movement of the ship. Several of the boys woke
up with the shock also. So with that I got out of my bunk and went
into the w^orking alle3nvay, seeing lots of stewards out. I walked up
and down the alleyway several times with another steward. After
that I went back to the quarters. I went back and laid down for a
few minutes and then got up again. I had no sooner gotten there
than somebody came and said, *'A11 hands on deck."
Senator Bourne. How severe was the shock ? Did it awaken you ?
Were you asleep at the time ?
Mr. Andrews. I was just dozing off, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did it throw you out of your bunk?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you think that the ship was in a serious con-
dition, at all ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; I thought something might have gone
wrong with the engines.
Senator Bourne. When you went out on deck, you assumed that
there was no danger, and went back to bed again, did 3'ou ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Until the call came for '^ All hands on deck" ?
Mr. Andrews. I got out of my bunk just before that, because I
heard the rush of water, and I thought to myself, I guess I had better
dress and go out; so I had just got to the door when somebody said,
''All hands on deck."
Senator Bourne. Now, will 3'ou go on ?
Mr. Andrews. With that I walked up on deck and stood by my
boat. There were lots of people around, and I saw stores brought to
t( ..»».«**^ fy
624 TITANIC DISASTER.
the boat, and bread. I did not see the stores put in the boat. I
assisted in helping the ladies and children into the boat. After the
boat was full tne officer called out for able seamen, or any individuals
then, to man the boat. After several had got into the boat
Senator Bourne. How many ?
Afr. Andrews. Six, sir. Five, sir, had got into the boat, and I was
the sixth.
Senator Bourne. Five besides yourself?
Mr. Andrews, Five besides myself. The master-at-arms — there
was two mastera-at-arms, and one was in charge of our boat.
Senator Bourne. What was the name of the one in charge of your
boat ?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know his name, sir; he was a master-at-
arms.
Senator Bourne. How many were passengers in the boat besides
the six men manning the boat?
Mr. Andrews. I should think about 50, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was it one of the lifeboats or one of the collapsi-
ble boats ?
Mr. Andrews. A lifeboat.
Senator Bourne. Now, will you go on ?
Mr. Andrews. After they were all in the boat the officer looked
around at me and asked me if I could take an oar, and I said I could,
sir. At that he told me to get into the boat. After I got in the boat
I assisted by putting the rowlocks in. We lowered the boat to the
water and rowed away from the ship. On our way out we came in
contact with another boat, and stood bv.
Senator Bourne. That is, rested on your oars?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; we had to rest because we came across
another boat, sir, filled up with ladies. The remark was passed by
some one in the boat to go back, but as the two boats were full we
stood at a distance away.
Senator Bourne. Wfio passed the remark to go back ?
Mr. Andrews. One of the passengers, sir. The boats were full, sir.
Senator Bourne. It was in the boat you were in, No.- 16, that one
of the passengers passed this remark to go back ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What attention did the officer in charge of the
boat pay to the remark, if any ?
Mr. Andrews. I never heard nothing else, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did the passenger who made the remark express
any reason ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. He did not say why he wanted to go back ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir. When daylight came we saw a light,
which was on the Carpathiay and we proceeded to her.
Senator Bourne. Did you see any light at the time of the accident,
immediately preceding or following, from any ship, or any hght of any
kind or description other than what was on the T^nic itself ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, sir, we saw a light that seemed over the
Titanic, back of the Titanic.
Senator Boltine. Did you think it was on the Titanic or beyond
the ntanicf
it .^^.^,*^ y>
TITANIC DI8ASTBB. 625
Mr. Andrews. No, sir. The coxswain of the boat, the master-at-
arms, thought it was another ship coming up to give assistance; but
after a while the light disappeared.
Senator Bourne. How long was that after you left the Titanic?
Mr. Andrews. About an hour.
Senator Bourne. That you saw this light over and beyond the
fiiamcf
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Believing it to be a rescue ship ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You left the Titanic at what time — about what
time — according to your recollection ?
Mr. Andrews. I should think it was about half past 12, sir.
Senator Bourne. VHiat time did the accident take place ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, sir, to my recollection, about 20 minutes past
1 1 , sir.
Senator Bourne. You were in your bunk at the time?
Mr. Andrews. I was, sir.
Senator Bourne. Are you absolutely sure as to the time of the
accident or is that an impression ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, that is, so far as I know, sir, because I was in
my bunk. There was no clock about. I think I was lying down
about 20 minutes.
Senator Bourne. You were dozing at the time of the accident, and
so your idea of the exact time of the accident would be rather hazy,
a mere 'guess. More of a guess than anything specific ?
Mr, Andrews. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Will you kindly go on ?
Mr. Andrews. We transferred one of our men to the other boat.
Senator Bourne. Why ?
Mr. Andrews. To assist to row. Thev had not very manv in the
other boat to row, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you transfer any of your passengers?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; one of our crew, sir.
Senator Bourne. Your boat was lowered past the steerage
quarters, on a lower deck, was it not?
Mr. Andrews. Well, it was the after boat on that side, so far as I
know, sir, on the boat deck.
Senator Bourne. In lowering it, it went by the steerage quarters,
on the lower deck, did it not ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any effort on the part of the steerage
men to get into your boat ?
]VIr. Andrews. No, sir; I was told by the officer to allow nobody
in the boat after the last one in it.
Senator Bourne. Was there any effort on the part of anyone to
get into it ?
Mr, Andrews. No, sir; everything was quiet, sir.
Senator Bourne. Wlien the officer started to fill the boat with the
passengers, and the men to man the boat, were there any individuals
who tried to get into the boat that he would not permit to get in ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there anv confusion or panic in loading the
boat ?
626 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Andrews. No, sir: none whatsoever.
Senator Bourne. Kinoly proceed.
Mr. Andrews. On the way to the Carpathia we saw some of our
boatL- also proceeding. When we arrived there, there were one or
two boats set adrift.
Senator Bourne. Who set them adrift, and why ?
Mr. Andrews. That I do not know sir. I think tney were damaged
boats, sir.
Senator Bourne. Well, of your knowledge, after they were filled
and loaded, had any of their occupants been drowned or injured?
Mr, Andrews. Not that I know of, sir.
Senator Boitine. Your boat was as full as it would hold with
safety, was it ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You were up to the limit of your capacity ?
Mr. Andrews. I should think so, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any cries ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. At the time that the ship sank?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Immediately preceding or just following ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, sir, we haa just stood by the other boat when
we heard the cries ?
Senator Bourne. How far were you from the Titanic at the time i
Mr. Andrews. I should say about half a mile, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you see the Titanic sink?
Mr. Andrews. Well, sir, she must have been halfway sinking when
I saw her.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any explosion or noise ?
Mr. Andrews. I heard just a small sound, sir; it was not very loud,
but just a small sound.
Senator Bourne. Did it create any discussion in the boat ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. What was the impression it made on your mind ?
Mr. Andrews. I thought perhaps it was one of the boilers that had
just gone, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you think that the ship broke in two ?
Mr. Andrews. That I do not know, sir. When we got awav in
the boat at the last everything seemed to go to a black mist. All tlie
lights seemed to go out and everything went black.
Senator Bourne. Did the lights go out altogether on the whole
ship, or go out in part, and then the remainder go out?
Mr. Andrews. They seemed to go out altogetlier, sir.
Senator Bourne, x ou are faminar with the different decks of the
ship ? You know the E deck ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; I do not know them. I do not know any-
thing about the decks, sir.
Senator Bourne. E deck being the deck on which those quarters
were located, was there any water on that deck, do you know?
Mr. Andrews. Not as I know of, sir.
Senator Bourne. That is all. We are very much obliged to you.
Witness excused.
" TITANIO " DISASTER. 627
TESTIHOHY OF JOHH COLLXETS.
[Testimony taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. State your residence ?
Mr. Ck>LLiNs. No. 65 Bauy Carry Street, Belfast.
Senator Bourne. How old are you ?
Mr. Collins. I will be 18 next November.
Senator Bourne. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Collins. Assistant cook, first-class galley.
Senator Bourne. How long have you followed the sea?
Mr. Collins. This was my first voyage, on the Titanic.
Senator Bourne. When did you ship?
Mr. Collins. I signed on Thursday, and we sailed on Wednesday
next. I signed on me 4th, and we sailed on the lOtJi.
Senator Bourne. Your first voyage, then, was on the Titanic 'i
Mr. Collins. Yes.
Senator Bourne. You were on it at the time of the accident ?
Mr. Collins. I was, sir.
Senator Bourne. I wish you would tell the committee just what
you were doing immediately prior to, and what you did after, the
time that the catastrophe on the Titanic took place, in your own
lansui^e ?
Mr. Collins. I stopped work at 9 o'clock in Sunday night, and I
came up again and walked up and down the alleyway. I went into
my bunk and fell asleep. That was about 10 o'clock — about a
quarter to 10. I fell asleep, and was sound asleep, and exactly at a
quarter past 111 was wakened up. I had a clockT)y me, by my bed,
and my clock was five minutes fast, and it was exactly a quarter past
1 1 when the ship struck the iceberg, and it wakenedf me. I put on
my trousers, got out of bed, and they were letting off steam in the
stoke hole. I asked what was the matter, and it seemed she struck
an iceberg. The word came down the alleyway that there was no
harm, and everyone returned to their bunks.
Senator Bourne. How long was that after the ship struck, which
you say according to your clock was
Mr. Collins. About 10 or 15 minutes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You are certain from your clock you saw at the
time of the accident took place at exactly 20 minutes past 11, not
according to that clock, but allowing for the five minutes that the
clock was slow?
Mr. Collins. No; the clock was fast, sir.
Senator Bourne. I thought you said the clock showed 11.15, and
the accident took place at 11.20?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; the clock was 20 minutes past 11, and the
accident took place at a quarter past 11, if my clock was right. I
could not exactly say. I put on my trousers and went up on to the
deck, up forward, and I saw the deck almost packed with ice on the
starboard side.
Senator Bourne. What deck was this ?
Mr. Collins. I could not say what deck it was; it was on the same
deck we slept on. Coining from the funnels it would be C deck, I
40475— FT 7—12 8
J
t c ___..___ . « ^ f y
628 TITANIC DlfiASTER.
think. I am not exactly sure. I was not too well acquainted with
the decks.
Senator Bourne. You say the deck was packed with ice ?
Mr. Collins. Yes; on the starboard side.
Senator Bourne. How far aft from the bow?
Afr. Collins. Well, it was just — I could not say exactly how far,
but the deck came ud like this [indicating] and then came down like
this [indicating] to No. 1 alley. It was all along. I could not
exactly explain right to tell you how far it was from the back.
Senator Bourne. Now, go on with your description.
Mr. Collins. I went back into the bedroom and was told to lie
down, and I got up a^ain. I did not take ofF any of my clothes, and
I came out again ana saw the stewards in their white jackets in the
passageway; the passengers were running forward, the stewards were
steering then^, and they made a joke of it, and we all turned in then
and the word came in that we were to get out of our beds and get the
life belts on and get up to the upper deck.
Senator Bourne. At what time was it that this word came? How
long after the ship struck ?
]3r. Collins. Well, it was exactly — I am sure — half an hour, sir.
Quite half an hour, it was.
Senator Bourne. Go on.
Mr. Collins. We went up to the deck when the word came. Then
I met a companion of mine, a steward, and I asked him what number
my boat was, and he said No. 16; so I went up to No. 16 boat, and I
seen both firemen and sailors with their bags ready for No. 16 boat.
I said to myself, '* There is no chance there," and I ran back to the
deck, ran to the port side on the saloon deck with another steward
and a woman and two children, and the steward had one of the
children in his arms and the woman was crying. I took the child off
of the woman and made for one of the boats. Then the word came
around from the starboard side there was a collapsible boat getting
launched on the starboard side and that all women and children were
to make for it. So me and another steward and the two children and
the woman came around on that side, the starboard side, and when
we got around there we saw then that it was forward. We saw the
collapsible boat taken off of the saloon deck, and then the sailors an<!
the firemen that were forward seen the ship's bow in the water and
seen that she was intending to sink ber bow, and they shouted out for
all they were worth we were to go aft, and word came there was a
boat getting launched, so we were to go aft, and we were just turning
around and making for the stern end when the wave washed us off the
deck — washed us clear of it — and the child was washed out of my
arms; and the wreckage and the people that was around me, they
kept me down for at least two or three minutes under the water.
Senator Bourne. Two or three minutes?
Mr. Collins. Yes; I am sure.
Senator Bourne. Were you unconscious?
Mr. Collins. No; not at all. It did not affect me much, the salt
water.
Senator Bourne. But you were under the water. You can not
stay under the water two or three minutes, can you ?
Mr. Collins. Well, it seemed that to me. I could not exactly state
how long, but it seemed that to me. Wlien I came to the surface I
if rTT^.mrr-r^ >'
TITANIC DISASTER. 629
saw this boat that had been taken off. I saw a man on it. They had
been working on it taking it off of the saloon deck, and when the waves
washed it off the deck tney clung to that ; then I made for it when I
came to the surface and saw it, and I swam over to it.
Senator Bourne. Did you have a life belt on ?
Mr. Collins. I had, sir. I was only about 4 or 5 yards off of it,
and I swam over to it and I got on to it.
Senator Bourne. How many were on the collapsible boat ?
Mr. Collins. Well, sir, I could not exactly say; out I am sure there
was more than 15 or 16.
Senator Bourne. Did those who were on help you get on ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; they were all watching tne ship. I had not
much to do. All I had to do was to give a spring and I got onto it;
and we were drifting about for two hours on the water.
Senator Bourne. When you had the child in your arms and went
to this collapsible boat that you understood was being launched, why
did you not get into it?
Au". Collins. Sir, we had not time, sir; they had not got it off the
deck until we were washed off the deck.
Senator Bourne. After the ship struck did you see any lights over
the water anywhere before any oi your boats were lowered ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. After the boats were lowered did you see any
lights that you believed was a ship coming to your relief?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir; there was three boats lowered.
Senator Bourne. I do not mean of your own boats, but I mean any
lights away from your own boats or your own ship. Did you see any
light in the distance?
Mr. Collins. I had the child in my arms, and I looked back at her
stem end and I saw a green light.
Senator Bourne. What did you think it was, one of your own
boats !
Mr. Collins. No, sir; I did not really think of what it was until
the firemen and sailors came up and said that it was a boat.
Senator Bourne. That is, a ship ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What became of it ?
Mr. Collins. Sir, it disappeared.
Senator Bourne. How long was it visible ?
Mr. Collins. About 20 minutes or half an hour, I am sure it was.
Senator Bourne. How far away, would you think, from the
Titanic?
Mr. Collins. I guess it would be about 4 miles; I am sure, 3 or 4
miles.
Senator Bourne. You say you were swept off of the Titanic^ s deck
by a wave ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long after the accident occurred or at what
time would you judge it was that you were swept off of the deck ?
Mr. Collins. Well, sir, I could not say; I am sure it was close on to
1 o'clock.
Senator Bourne. Was the ship sinking when you were swept off?
Mr. Collins. She was, sir.
i( .»».«««^ 9f
630 TITAKIO DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. When you came up from the water and got on
this collapsible boat, did you see any evidence of the ship as she
sunk, then ?
Mr. Collins. I did, sir; I saw her stern end.
Senator Bourne. Were you on the boat at the time that you were
washed off the ship ?
Mr. Collins. Ainidships, sir.
Senator Bourne. You say you saw the stem end after you got on
the collapsible boat ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you see the bow ?
Mr. Collins, No, sir.
Senator Bourne. How far were you from the stem end of the ship
when you came up and got into the collapsible boat, would you judge ?
Mr. Collins. We were about — I could not exactly state how far
I was from the Titanic when I come up to the surface. I was not
far, because here lights went out then. Her lights went out until the
water almost got to amidships on her.
Senator Bourne. As I understand, you were amidships on the bow
as the ship sank ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You were washed off by a wave. You %vere
xmder water, as vou think, for two or three mmutes, and then swam
5 or 6 yards to tne collapsible boat and got aboard — and got into the
boat. The stem of the ship was still anoat ?
Mr. Collins. The stem of the ship was still afloat.
Senator Bourne. The lights were buming?
Mr. Collins. I came to the surface, sir, and I happened to look
around and I just saw the lights and nothing more, and I looked in
front of me and I saw the collapsible boat and I made for it.
Senator Bourne. After you got in the boat, did you see any lights
on the Titanic 1
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. When you were in the water, after you came
up above the surface of the water, you saw the lights on the Titanic?
Mr. Collins. Just as I came up to the surface, sir. Her bow
was in the water. She had not exploded then. Her bow was in
the water, and I just looked around and saw the lights.
Senator Bourne. Had she broken in two ?
Mr. Collins. Her bow was in the water and her stern was up.
Senator Bourne. But you did not see any break? You did not
think she had parted, and broken in two ?
Mr. Collins. Her bow was in the water. She exploded in the
water. She exploded once in the water, and her stern end was up
out of the water; and with the explosion out of the water it blew
her stem up.
Senator Bourne. You saw it while it was up ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir; saw her stern up.
Senator Bourne. How long ?
Mr, Collins. I am sure it floated for at least a minute.
Senator Bourne. The lights were still burning ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; the lights was out.
Senator Bourne. How could vou see it ?
Mr. Collins. I was on the collapsible boat at the time.
tt 7 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 681
Senator Bourne. If it was dark, how could you see \
Mr. Collins. We were not too far off. I saw the white of the
funnel. Then she turned over again, and down she went.
Senator Bourne. There was not much of a sea on at the time of
the accident?
Mr. Collins. It was as calm as that board.
Senator Bourne. How do you account for this wave that washed
you off amidships ?
Mr. Collins. By the suction which took place when the bow went
down in the water.
Senator Bourne. And the waves broke over the deck and washed
you off?
Mr. Collins. Washed the decks clear.
Senator Bourne. How many were around you at that time that
were washed off?
Mr. Collins. There were hundreds on the starboard side.
Senator Bourne. And you think every one of the hundreds were
washed in the water ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir; they were washed off into the water.
Senator Bourne. The order had been given that every passenger
and member of the crew should put on a life belt ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What became of those hundreds that were
washed off at the same time you were ?
Mr. Collins. I got on to the raft. I could see when I got on to
the raft. I saw the stern of the boat, and I saw a mass of people
and wreckage, and heard cries.
Senator Bourne. In the water?
Mr. Collins. In the water.
Senator Bourne. How many were rescued from the water beside
yourself, on the boat you got into, which I understand was No. 16?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; the boat we got into was not No. 16.
Senator Bourne. What was the number?
Mr. Collins. It was a collapsible boat.
Senator Bourne. Was it not numbered ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; not that I know of.
Senator Bourne. The collapsible boats were not numbered ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. How many of the hundreds that were washed
off of the ship at the same time with you got into the collapsible boat
with you?
Mr. Collins. Well, sir, the boat was taken off the saloon deck,
and the wave came up and washed the boat right off, and she was
upside down, sir, and the water washed over her. She was turned
over, and we were standing on her.
Senator Bourne. You were standing on the bottom of the boat ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. The boat being upset ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How many got on to the bottom of the boat
with you?
Mr. Collins. We lifted four people.
Senator Bourne. There were five on there; four beside yourself?
Mr. Collins. Oh, sir, there was more.
632 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. There were probably 15 on there at the time you
got on ?
Mr. Collins. Exactly, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Collins. We were drifting about there; we drifted, I am sure,
a mile and a half from the Titanic, from where she sank, and there was
some lifeboat that had a green light on it, and we thought it was a boat
after the Titanic had sunk. We thought this green light was some
boat, and we commenced to shout. AJl we saw was the green light.
We were drifting about for two hours, and then we saw the lights of
the Carpathia. We saw her topmast lights. Then came daylight,
and we saw our own lifeboats, and we were very close to them. \Ve
were about from this window here to over there, almost opposite them ;
but in the dark we could not see them. When it became daylight, we
spied them and shouted to them, and they came over to us, and there
was two of our lifeboats that lifted the whole lot that were on the col-
lapsible boats. Then the Carpathia came into sight. We saw her
masthead lights first and saw her starboard and port side lights.
When she came near us, we saw her, and we did not Know what ooat
it was. Then there was one of our own boats had got a sail, and we
put up the sail. The fellow that was guiding this boat put up the sail.
When he put up the sail, he told us he would come back and take us in
tow. He did what he said; but we rowed for the Carmthia, and
whenever we got in amongst a lot of wreckage we rowed on ahead.
The wind rose, and the waves were coming up, and we were rowing
for all we were worth. Then the Carpathia blew her horn, and we all
seen the Carpathia, She stopped in the one place. We were at this
time within a mile of her, and she did not make any sign of coming
over near to us. She stopped in the one place, and, I think, lowered
two or three of her own ooats. and her own boats were kept in the
water when one of our boats, tne sailboat, went up alongside of her.
Senator Bourne. Why did the Carpathia lower any of rier boats as
long as none of your boats were in distress ?
Mr. Collins. To take up some of the bodies that had been washed
up by the side of her.
Senator Bourne. How near was she to the place where the Titanic
sank?
Mr. Collins. I could not say; it was dark when the Titanic sank.
Senator Bourne. I understand; but it was Ught when you got on
the Carpathiaf
Mr. Collins. Yes. I could not say.
Senator Bourne. Did the men on the bottom of the collapsible
boat refuse to let others get on from the water ?
Mr. Collins. Only one, sir. If a gentleman had got on we would
all have been tumedf over. We were all on the boat. One was run-
ning from one side to the other to keep her steady. If this man
had caught hold of her he would have tumbled the whole lot of us ofT.
Senator Bourne. Who prevented him ?
Mr. Collins. We were all telling him not to get on. He said,
*'That is all right, boys, keep cool, he said; '^God bless you,'^ and
he bid us good-by and he swam along for about two minutes and wo
seen him, out did not see him moving off; we saw liis head, but we
did not see liim moving his hands. Then we were washed out of
his road.
i< ..^^.^ ^f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 633
Senator Bourne. There was only this one instance, then, when
one tried to get on ?
Mr. Collins. There were others that tried to get on, but we would
not let them on. A big foreigner came up; I tmnk he was a Dutch-
man. He came up to tne stern and he hung on to me all the time.
Senator Bourne. Was he saved i
Mr. Collins. He was, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then all those who wanted to get on and tried
to get on, got on, with the exception of only one ?
Mr. Collins. Only one, sir.
Senator Bourne. That was when you had all on the boat that she
could support ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. He was not pushed off by anyone, but those on
the boat asked him not to try to get on ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And he acquiesced ?
^Ir. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. You do not know whether he was saved or not ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; I do not think he was.
Senator Bourne. You say this was your first cruise i
'Sir, Collins. It was.
Senator Bourne. On any ship ?
!Mr. Collins. On any ship.
Senator Bourne. How do you know you had a numbered boat ?
Mr. Collins. By my companion, sir; by my companion on the
saloon deck.
Senator Bourne. By your companion you mean whom ?
Mr. Collins. My mate.
Senator Bourne. And he had sailed a number of voyages, I sup-
pose, and he was famihar ?
Mr. Collins. Yes; he was an old hand at it.
Senator Bourne. And he told vou
Mr. Collins. My number was No. 16.
Senator Bourne. Did you know where No. 16 was located, or did
he show you ?
Mr. Collins. He showed- me, sir.
Senator Bourne. You two went together?
Mr. Collins. The two of us went together, sir, until I was washed
off the deck.
Senator Bourne. Was he saved ?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. He was washed off at the same time you were ?
Mr. Collins. He was washed off at the same time.
Senator Boltine. Why did you wait until Sunday morning to find
your boat number ?
Mr. Collins. Sir, the boat had struck, sir, before I heard tell of
my number.
Senator Bourne. No one informed you that you were assigned to
any boat at all until your mate told you, the night of the accident ?
Air. Collins. Yes, sir: we were to muster on Sunday at 11 o'clock
for the fire and boat drill, and it did not come off.
Senator Bourne. That is all. We are much obliged to you.
634 " TITANIC '' DISASTER.
TESTIMOVT OF FEEDESICK CLEVCH.
[Testimony taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. Kindly state your age, residence, and occupation.
Mr. Clench. Able-bodied seaman; I live at No. 10, The Flats,
Chantry Road, Southampton.
Senator Bourne. How long have you followed the sea?
Mr. Clench. About 19 vears now, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been rated as an able-bodied
seaman ?
Mr. Clench. Well, I think I have been about 16 years as able
seaman.
Senator Bourne. Have you been altogether on steam lines, or have
you been on sailing vessels ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; I have all the time been on steam boats —
different lines, you know.
Senator Boltine. How long have you been on the White Star %
Mr. Clench. Well, I done six voyages with the Olympic. This
would make the seventh one.
Senator Bourne. Have vou sailed on other lines besides the White
Star «
Mr. Clench. I have been on the Elder-Dempster Line.
Senator Bourne. You were on the Titanic on her maiden voyage,
were you ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What day did you join the ship ?
Mr. Clench. On a Wednesaav, su*.
Senator Bourne. Was that the day of the sailing ?
Mr. Clench. The dajr of the sailing, sir.
Senator Bourne. Will you kindly explain in your own way what
occurred just prior and subsequent to the catastrophe?
Mr. Clench. I was asleep in my bunk when the accident occurred,
and I was awakened by the cruncning and jarring, as if it was hitting
up against something.
Senator Bourne. Were you sound asleep ?
Mr. Clench. I was souncl asleep.
Senator Bourne. Are you a heavy sleeper ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; it did not take much to wake me. I am a
light sleeper. If anybody touches me, I will jump quick. Of course
I put on my trousers and I went on deck on the starboard side of
the well deck and I saw a lot of ice.
Senator Bourne. On the deck itself ?
Mr. Clench. On the deck itself.
Senator Bourne. What deck was that ?
Mr. Clench. The well deck, sir. With that, I went in the allej'-
way again under the forecastle head to come down and put on my
shoes. Some one said to me, ''Did you hear the rush of waterV' I
said, ^^No." They said, ''Look down under the hatchwav." I
looked down under the hatchwav and I saw the tarpaulin belly out
as if there was a lot of ^-ind under it, and I heard the rush of water
coming through.
Senator Bourne. You heard that ?
Mr. Clench. Yes.
ti »w.».^**^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 635
Senator Boubne. How soon after you struck ? How manj' min-
utes, would you think ?
Mr. Clench. I should say about 10 minutes, ^r.
Senator Boubne. After you were awake 1
Mr. Clench. After I was awake, yes. I went down below and put
my guernsey on, my roimd hat on, and after that I sat down on a stool
having a smoke ?
Senator Bourne. Down in the forecastle ?
Mr. Clench. Down in the forecastle.
Senator Bourne. Although you had seen this water coming in ?
Mr. Clench. I seen the water coming in, and I thought it was all
right.
Senator Bourne. You thought she would not sink, Mr. Clench ?
Mr. Clench. I thought she would not sink then, sir. Then after I
lighted the pipe, I heard the boatswain's pipe call all hands out on
deck. We went up to where he stood under the forecastle, and he
ordered all hands to the boat deck. We proceeded up on the boat
deck, and when we got up there he told us to go to the starboard
side and uncover the boats. I went down to No. 1 1 boat, unlacing
the cover, and just as I started to imlace, along come an officer.
Senator Bourne. Were you assigned to No. 11 ?
Mr. Clench. No; No. 4 was my boat. We were sent there to
uncover the boat, and an officer came along and drafted me on the
other side, the port side. I went to No. 16 on the port side — the after
boat, and started getting out the boat falls to let them down; I got
out the two falls and coiled them down on the deck. When I was
putting the plug in the boat in readiness to be lowered they were
swinging the boat out.
Senator Bourne. Were you in the boat at the time it was swinging
out?
Mr. Clench. I was in the boat at the time she was swinging out.
Senator Bourne. Fixing the plug?
Mr. Clench. Fixing the plug.
Senator Bourne, i ou were the only man in the boat at that
time?
Mr. Clench. I was the onlv man in the boat at that time. I
jumped out of that boat ancf got her all ready for lowering, and
helped get the other falls out of the other boats. No. 14 boat we went
to next.
Senator Bourne. No. 14 being next to No. 16. The even numbers
were on one side and the odd numbers on the other?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; the even numbers on the port side and the
odd numbers on the starbooard. I got the three boats out, and we
lowered them down level with the boat deck. Then I assisted
Mr. Ligh toller
Senator Bourne. The second officer?
Mr. Clench. The second officer. Him and me stood on the gun-
wale of the boat helping load the women and children in. The chief
officer was passing them along to us, and we filled the three boats
like that.
Senator Bourne. You filled No. 16 first?
Mr. Clench. No; filled 12 first. After we got them already
lowered down to the deck, then we went to No. 14 to lower
Senator Bourne. How many did you put in No. 1 2 ? Have you anv
idea?
636 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Clench. I could not tell you exactly, but I should say from
40 to 50 people.
Senator Bourne. And what is the capacity, ordinarily, as you
figure; 65? *
Mr. Clench. I think the number is about 65, but, of course, I sup-
pose they were thinking of lowering them down and the falls would
not be safe enough; but at any rate, we had to go tq No. 14 and do
the same there. Me and Mr. Lightoller and the chief officer passed
them in as we stood on the gunwale; in all three of the boats, that
was. After we finished No. 16 boat, I goes out and looks at the falls
again to see that they are all readv for going down clear. When I got
back to No. 12 again, the chief officer happened to come along, and he
said, **How many men have you in this boat ?" There was one man
in the boat, one sailor, and I said, *^Onlv one, sir." He looked up,
and me being the only sailor there, he said., '* Jump into that boat," he
said, '*and make the complement" — that was two seamen.
Senator Bourne. That was in No. 14?
Mr. Clench. That was in No. 12, sir. That was the boat I went
away in. I goes into the boat, and then, of course, we had to wait
for orders to lower away. We started lowerii^ away and get down
to the water. I goes and gets the tumbler and drops clear into the
water, and drops clear of the blocks.
Senator Bourne. The tumbler being the loosener from the fall ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; pulls the hook back so we dropped clear of
the falls. Then we had orders to pull awav from the ship.
Senator Bourne. Who gave you the orcfers ?
Mr. Clench. They were shouted from the deck.
Senator Bourne. By what officer ? Do you know ?
Mr. Clench. I could not say what officer, now. He was too high
up, and it was so dark I could not see.
Senator Bourne. Who was in charge of the boat you went in to
make up the complement ?
Mr. Clench. A seaman.
Senator Bourne. He was in charge ?
Mr. Clench. He was in charge ?
Senator Bourne. Was it only a petty officer ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; an able seaman. We had instructions w^hen
we went down that we were to keep our eye on No. 14 boat, where
Mr. Lowe, the fifth officer, was, and keep all together as much as we
could, so that we would not get drifted away from one another.
Senator Bourne. So as to give relief immediately, if needed ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir. We got the boat out, I suppose, a quarter
of a mile away from the ship; tnen we laid on our oars and stood by,
and all stopped together.
Senator Bourne. How many passengers were in No. 14, would
you say, Mr. Clench ?
Mr. Clench. I think about 50, sir.
Senator Bourne. And only two seamen ?
Mr. Clench. Two seamen; that is all, sir.
Senator Bourne. Who did the rowing ?
Mr. Clench. Both seamen had to row out as far as they could, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did any passengers row ?
Mr. Clench. I could not say about No. 14 boat, sir; we had gone
ahead of them.
ii ,.»^.« ^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 637
Senator Bourne. 'Hie boat that you were in — what number was
that ?
Jklr. Clench. No. 12, sir.
Senator Bourne. How many passengers were in it ?
Mr. Clench. Between 14 and 15, in ours.
Senator Bourne. And only two seamen in it ?
Mr. Clench. Two seamen.
Senator Bourne. No other members of the crew ?
Mr. Clench. No members of the crew. There was only one male
passenger in our boat, and that was a Frenchman who jumped in,
and we could not find him, sir.
Senator Bourne. Where was he ?
Mr. Clench. Under the thwart, mixed with the women. In fact,
of course, we could not look for him just as we dropped into the
water.
Senator Bourne. He got into the boat before you lowered her ?
Mr. Clench. Before we lowered her.
Senator Bourne. Without your knowledge ?
Mr. Clench. Without our knowing it.
Senator Bourne. How do you think he was able to do that ?
Mr. Clench. I could not say, that, sir. We were, of course,
attending to the falls and looking out to see that they went down
clear.
Senator Bourne. All of the rest of your passengers were women
and children?
Mr. Clench. Women and children.
Senator Bourne. You rowed away from the ship about a quarter
of a mile?
Mr. Clench. About a quarter of a mile.
Senator Bourne. Then you rested on your oars ?
Mr. Clench. Then we rested on our oars.
Senator Bourne. According to orders ?
Mr. Clench. According to orders.
Senator Bourne. What happened then ? How long did you rest
and what did you do after you resumed rowing ?
Mr. Clench. We was rowing up there, and up come the officer,
after the ship was gone down, come up with us with his boat, and
transferred some of his people he had m his boat into two boats of
ours; I could not say the number of the oth#r boats, but he trans-
ferred his people into ours so that he would have a clear boat to go
around to look for the people who were floating in the water.
Senator Bourne. Could you, from your boat, see anybody floating
or swimming around in the water ?
Mr. Clench. Never seen anyone, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you see the ship sink ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. About a quarter of a mile away ?
Mr. Clench. About a quarter of a mile away.
Senator Bourne. Did she sink bow down ?
Mr. Clench. Bow down ; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did she break in two ?
Mr. Clench. That I could not say.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any explosion ?
Mr. Clench. I heard two explosions, su*.
(( »*,..«**^ 9y
638 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Botirne. Immediately preceding the sinking of the ship ?
Mr. Clench. Yes. Well, before the ship had sunk there was one
explosion.
senator Bourne. How long before the ship sank ?
Mr. Clench. I should say a matter of 10 minutes before she went
under.
Senator Bourne. There was ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What did you think that was, one of the boUers
bureting?
Mr. Clench. I figured that the water got up around one of the
boilers, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then in about 10 minutes there was another
explosion ?
Mr. Clench. There was another explosion, but I could not sav how
long from one to the other.
Senator Bourne. After the second explosion, you having only
heard two
Mr. Clench. Only two, I heard.
Senator Bourne (continuing). Then did the ship disappear?
Mr. Clench. The lights went out after the second explosion. Then
she gradually sank down into the water very slowly.
Senator Bourne. How long a time would you say it was after the
second explosion before she sank out of sight ?
Mr. Clench. I should say a matter of about 20 minutes.
Senator Bourne. In the sinking of the ship did she apparenth^ go
bow down and did the stern go away up in the air ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; the stern was well up in the air when the
bow was underneath.
Senator Bourne. Much higher than she was when she filled ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; so much higher that you could see the keel.
Senator Bourne. Was the distance too great for you to see whether
there were any passengers on the stern ?
Mr. Clench. You could not discern any small objects. The lights
were all out.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any cries of people in the water i
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; there were awful cries, and yelling and shout-
ing, and that. Of course I told the women in the boats to keep quiet,
and consoled them a bit. I told them it was men in the boats shouting
out to the others, to keep them from getting away from one another.
Senator Bourne. You did not look around you ?
Mr. Clench. I saw no one in the water whatsoever, whether alive
or dead.
Senator Bourne. You did not see any wreckage around you ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; we never seen no wreckage around us.
Senator Boltine. How long did you remain about a quarter of a
mUe from the ship after you reached that point? Did you remain
there any length of time, or did you keep on rowing awa}'^ ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; we remained there, I should say, up until
about 4 o'clock.
Senator Bourne. A matter of an hour and a half?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; it was just after we got the women from Mr.
Lowe's boat, and he said he was going around the wreckage to see if
he could find anybody.
a ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 639
Senator Bourne. How many did you have in your boat after you
had taken part of the load from Mr. Lowe's boat ?
Mr. Clench. I should say we had close onto 60, then.
Senator Bourne. Full up ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; we were pretty well full up then.
Senator Bourne. What direction did Mr. Lowe give you ?
Mr. Clench. He told us to he on our oars and keep together until
he came back to us.
Senator Bourne. He, in the meantime, having gone to see if he
could rescue anybody where the ship had sunk ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; and while Mr. Lowe was gone I heard
shouts. Of course I looked around, and I saw a boat in the way that
appeared to be like a funnel. We started to back away then. We
thought it was the top of the funnel. I put my head over the gun-
wale and looked alon^ the water's edge and saw some men on a raft.
Then I heard two whistles blown. I sang out ''Aye, aye; I am com-
ing over," and we pulled over and found it was a raft^ — not a raft,
exactly, but an overturned boat — and Mr. Lightoller was there on
that hoat, and I beheve — I do not know whether I am right or not,
but I think the wireless operator was on there, too. We took them on
board the boat and we shared the amount of the room that was there.
Senator Bourne. How many were there on this boat that was there ?
Mr. Clench. I should say about 20, sir.
Senator Bourne. So that you had about 60 at the time you res-
cued them, and you took on approximately 10 more?
Mr. QjENCH. Yes, sir; that made about 70 in my boat.
Senator Bourne. The 60 were all women and children, except one
man and your mate ?
Mr. Clench. Me and my mate — that is, when we came away from
the boat; but when we got transferred we had some more put aboard
from Mr. Lowe's boat. They were all men we nicked up on of the raft,
or the overturned boat. It was a raft more tnan anything.
Senator Bourne. Was it one of the collapsible boats that had over-
turned?
Mr. Clench. Some term them "collapsible'' boats, and some term
them "surf" boats.
Senator Bourne. But she was bottom up ?
Mr. Clench. Bottom up, sir.
Senator Bourne. They were all standing on the bottom?
Mr. Clench. On the bottom of the boat, sir; and Mr. Lightoller,
he came aboard of us. They were all wet through, apparently; they
had been in the water.
Senator Bourne. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Clench. Mr. Lightoller took charge of us and sighted the
Carpathians lights. Then we started heading for that. We had to
row a tidy (Ustance to the Carpathia, because there was boats ahead
of us, you see, and we had a boat in tow with us, besides all the peo-
ple we had aboard.
Senator Bourne. Wlien did you sign for the ship ?
Mr. Clench. I signed on Monday, sir.
Senator Bourne. And sailed when ?
Mr. Clench. On Wednesday.
Senator Bourne. Were you assigned to any Ufeboat at the time
or any boat?
if «*,«.^«*^ ff
640 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; I was put on the boat list as on No. 4.
Senator Bourne. You were assigned to that boat ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. As soon as you had signed your articles ?
Mr. Clench. Oh, no, sir.
Senator Bourne. When did you get notice you were assigned to
No. 4?
Mr. Clench. I suppose we had been out a couple of days before
notice had been put up.
Senator Bourne. Tney had no drills before leaving the dock?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; two boats were sent away.
Senator Bourne. But your boat was not ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. It was not. There were only two boats drilled
at the dock prior to sailing ?
Mr. Clench. That was all, sir, and they were manned by the sea-
men. They pulled around the dock and come back and got hoisted
up again.
Senator Bourne. Why did they not have a driU for all of the boats ?
Is not that customary?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; there is only two boats goes out.
Senator Bourne. Those are the emergency boats ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; not emergency boats — the lifeboats.
Senator Bourne. There were 14 of what are designated lifeboats
on the TUanicf
Mr. Clench. Fourteen lifeboats and two emergency boats.
Senator Bourne. And four collapsible boats ?
Mr. Clench. Four collapsible boats.
Senator Bourne. Making 20 altogether?
Mr. Clench. Twenty altogether.
Senator Bourne. Why should they pick out and have a drill with
2 of the 14 lifeboats and not drill witn the other 12 ?
Mr. Clench. Why, I could not say.
Senator Bourne. In your experience at sea have you always been
assigned to different boats, on aifferent lines ?
>&. Clench. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. As soon as you had signed your articles ?
Mr. Clench. As soon as you went aboard the ship there was the
boat list stuck up in the forecastle for you.
Senator Bourne. Was it customary then to have boat drills ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; we had a board of trade muster then, on the
other ships I have been on.
Senator Bourne. But you did not have any on this boat, the
Titanic ?
Mr. Clench. They just had a line up, sir, and that is all, and we
were told to go to the boats and get away.
Senator Bourne. How long after you sailed did you know your
boat?
Mr. Clench. About two days after, sir.
Senator Bourne. How did you get knowledge of your allotment or
designation for No. 4 ?
iu*. Clench. Because it was posted up on the forecastle door.
Senator Bourne. That was tne first intimation you had ?
Mr. Clench. That was the first information I haH.
<* .**«.«*.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 641
Senator Boorne. Did they have any boat drill at all during the
voyage ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Boubne. Did you see any notice of any drill that was
called for during the voyage ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Is it customary, according to your experience
you have had in the years you have been sailing on steamships, to have
boat drills during voyages ?
Mr. Clench, les, sir; every Saturday at sea, on the boats I have
been in.
Senator Bourne. But they had none on the Titanicf
Mr. Clench. No, sir. When I was on the Olympic we used to have
it on Sunday, if we remained in port on Sunday.
Senator Bourne. What did that drill consist of? Would you
explain it so that we can understand just what a boat drill is such as
those you had on the Olympic on a Sunday ?
Mr. Clench. Well, every Sunday the fire bell rang, and all like
that, and you had to attend toyour fire hose, and after that was done
we proceeded to our boats. Wnen the whistle blowed, each man went
to his boat. There was two seamen allotted to each boat.
Senator Bourne. You would iust go to the boat and walk away?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; we would walk up, line up, and get our names
called out.
Senator Bourne. You would not take the canvas off and lower the
boats and get into the boats and have any drill ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. That is never done?
Mr. Clench. That is never done. I have never done that.
Senator Bourne. But they did not on the Titanic even have
muster and the men walk up to the various boats to which they had
been allotted ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; that is, when we used to have a Sunday in
New York.
Senator Bourne. On the Titanic did they do this ?
Mr. Clench. Only in Southampton, sir.
Senator Bourne. They did not do it on the voyage?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. But on the Olympic, every voyage you took on
her they did it every Sunday ?
Mr. Clench. If we happened to get a Sunday in New York, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any shooting ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; Mr. Ijcwe was in No. 14 boat, and he sings
out, * 'Anybody attempting to get into these boats while we are low-
ering them, I will shoot them, and he shot three shots.
Senator Bourne. Did he shoot anybody ?
Mr. Clench. He shot straight down in the water.
Senator Bourne. Did not fire at anybody ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; just shot to frighten the people.
Senator Bourne. Was there any efftrt made, after he fired three
shots, by anyone to ^et into the boat ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. There was no confusion at all ?
642 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Clench. No confusion whatever, sir. Everything went as if
it was boat drill in Southampton.
Senator Bourne. Did any of the able-bodied seamen ever eo into
the crow's nest to look out, or are the lookouts specially selected ?
Mr. Clench. Special men assigned to that.
Senator Bourne. For that purpose ?
Mr. Clench. For that purpose only.
Senator Bourne. Do any of them go into the eyes of the boat to
keep a lookout ?
Mr. Clench. Only in case of a fog, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then would you or some of your mates do that?
Mr. Clench. We would have to go up in the crow's nest and re-
lieve the lookout. He would come down and go in the eyes of the
boat.
Senator Bourne. Was there anyone in the eyes of the boat at the
time of the accident ?
Mr. Clench. I could not say, sir, because I was not on deck.
Senator Bourne. Will you kindly define your duties at sea as an
able-bodied seaman ?
Mr. Clench. When I was on the OlympiCf sir?
Senator Bourne. On the Titanic.
Mr. Clench. Well, I was picked out for alleyway man, what we
term the engineer's alleyway, what we term the working alleyway.
That was to work from 6 to 5 ; keep it swept up, and all paint work
clean. That was n\y duty aboard that ship.
Senator Bourne. Did you ever take a trick at the wheel ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. They have wheel men specially selected ?
Mr. Clench. A quartermaster assigned on that, just the same as the
lookout, a special man.
Senator Bourne. Are you familiar with the boiler rooms ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any criticism on the part of any of the
men that any of the officers were mcompetent, or that there was any
intemperance or that there was anyone to blame -for the disaster?
Mr. Clench. No; I can not say that there is.
Senator Bourne. You have not heard of any ?
Mr. Clench. I have not heard of any. As for any intemperance,
you seldom saw anything on a boat hKe that. I mean to say you
can not get anything to drink there, so you are bound to be a teetotaler
there.
Senator Bourne. Have you had experience — I do not mean in the
WBLV of being sliipwrecked — with ice, before ?
Mr. Clench. No, sir; never.
Senator Bourne. Tliis is your first experience ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir. Unless it was like on other ships when we
have been laying in the river in New York.
Senator Bourne. But you had not been in the iceberg belt before ?
Mr. Clench. Never.
Senator Bourne. When it became dawn or daylight, did you find
many bergs and much ice around you ?
Mr. Clench. Yes, sir; there was a large field of ice, I should say
20 to 30 miles long, just ahead of us and there was a few bergs float-
ing around, large ones, too.
H -.,».. «„^ f9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 64ft
Senator Bourne. How long after the Carpathia reached the scene
of the disaster did it take you to get out of the field where the ice
was?
Mr. Clench. I should say about two hours and a half.
Senator Bourne. It is your opinion that the ship did not break
in two?
Mr. Clench. That I can not say, sir, because it was so dark.
Senator Bourne. You were too far away?
Mr. Clench. We was too far away to see anything hke that,
although we could not have been so far away, because when we picked
up that surfboat that was overturned she must have been pretty
well over the wreck, because they had nothing to propel themselves
alon^ with; they had no oars or nothing; they was at a standstill at
the time.
Senator Bourne. Did you learn, from those on the surfboat that
was bottom up, how she capsized ?
Mr. Clench. I do not know that she capsized at all, sir; she went
down bow first.
Senator Bourne. I mean the surfboat.
Mr. Clench. No. I never heard, sir, how it happened. The men
was too much exhausted to talk much.
Senator Bourne. Did they all survive, that you rescued ?
Mr, Clench. Yes, sir; although we thought it was a case with the
wireless operator, who was very bad. We said we thought he was
going to croak."
Senator Bourne. I think that will be aU. I am very much obliged
to you.
Witness excused.
TESTIHONT OF MB. EBNEST ABCHEB.
[TeBtimoDy taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommfttee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. Please state your name, age, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Archer. Ernest Archer; age 36; 59 Port Chester Road,
Woolston, Southampton; able seaman.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been rated as an able seaman !
Mr. Archer. About 20 vears.
Senator Bourne. How long have you sailed with the White Star
Line?
Mr. Archer. With the White Star Line, five years this month.
Senator Bourne. When did you join the Titanic?
Mr. Archer. On Wednesday, the 10th of April, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you sign the day she saUed ?
Mr. Archer. No; signed on Monday, two days before she sailed.
Senator Bourne. You were on the Titanic at the time of the
catastrophe ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Will you explain, please, in your own way, what
occurred immediately preceding and following the accident ?
Mr. Archer. I was in my bunk, asleep. I heard a kind of a crush,
something similar to when jjrou let go the anchor; it sounded like the
cable running through the hawse pipe.
40476— FT 7—12 9
644 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. Was there a shock, a jar?
Mr. Archer. No; no shock and no jar; just a grating sensation.
Senator Bourne. You were asleep at the time?
Mr. Archer. I was asleep at the time.
Senator Bourne. Are you a sound or a light sleeper ?
Mr. Archer. A pretty hght sleeper, sir.
Senator Bourne. You are easily awakened ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. So, if there had been much of a shock, you think
you would have felt it, although you had been asleep ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. It was more of a noise?
Mr. Archer. More of a noise than a shock, sir.
Senator Bourne. What happened ?
Mr. Archer. I jumped out of my bed, put on a pair of trousers^
and ran up on deck to find out what was tlie matter. I saw some
small pieces of ice on the starboard side, on the forward deck.
Senator Bourne. Wliich deck?
Mr. Archer. The fore well deck.
Senator Bourne. How much ice was there?
Mr. Archer. Not an extraordinary lot, sir.
Senator Bourne. How much ?
Mr. Archer. Not a great lot.
Senator Bourne. No heavy^ pieces ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Not any 50 or 100 ton chunks?
Mr. Archer. No; nothing Uke that; just small pieces.
Senator Bourne. No pieces any larger than your head?
Mr. Archer. No; I never saw any larger than that. After I
saw the ice I went back in the door and put on a pair of shoes, a
guernsey, and a cap. While I was doing that the boatswain ordered
us on deck.
Senator Bourne. How long after that did that occur?
Mr. Archer. About 10 minutes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What did you do ?
Mr. Archer. We went on deck to the top of the forecastle ladder,
to the boatswain, and we waited for the watch, and he gave us orders,
and we proceeded to the boat deck and proceeded to uncover and
clear away the boats.
Senator Bourne. Had you been assigned to a boat ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What number?
Mr. Archer. No. 7.
Senator Bourne. That was on the port side ?
Mr. Archer. No; on the starboard side, sir.
Senator Bourne. The odd numbers were on the starboard side?
Mr. Archer. Yes; the odd numbers on the starboard side and the
even numbers on the port.
Senator Bourne. Did you go right to your own boat. No. 7 ?
Mr. Archer. No: we did not have orders to go to No. 7; we had
orders to uncover all boats.
Senator Bourne. You went, then, to the boat you were nearest
to at the time ?
Mr. Archer. We were to start and get it ready for lowering.
<i ..^». ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 645
Senator Bourne. After you uncovered the boats, what then?
Mr. Archer. We went to them, uncovered them, and got the falls
ready for lowering. Then I went over to the starboard side and
assisted in lowering about three boats. I could not mention the num-
ber of the boats I Towered. I never taken any notice. Then an offi-
cer came along — I could not mention his name — and he sang out that
they wanted some seamen on the other side, on the port side, to assist
over there. I went over there and assisted in getting Nos. 12, 14,
and 15 out. I assisted in getting the falls and every thmg ready, and
the passengers into No. 14 boat. Then I went to No. 16.
Senator Bourne. Have you a recollection that would be suffi-
ciently distinct to be of value of the number of passengers that went
into Nos. 12, 14, and 16?
Mr. Archer. Well, I should say, sir, they would approach about 50.
Senator Bourne. To each boat?
Mr. Archer. To each boat.
Senator Bourne. Then what?
Mr. Archer. Then when I got' to No. 16 boat the officer told me to
fet into the boat and see that the plug was in; so I got in the boat,
seen that the plug was in tight; then they started to put pas3engers
in, and I assisted to get them in.
Senator Bourne. Were you still remaining in No. 16?
Mr. Archer. Still remaining in the boat and assisting the pas-
sengers, children and ladies, to the boat.
Senator Bourne. Did any men get in ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir; I never saw any men get in, sir; only my
mate.
Senator Bourne. You were directed by the officer to get into the
boat, and your mate was directed by the officer to get into the boat?
Mr. Archer. So far as I know, he was, sir. I never heard the order
for him to get in. I was busy with the children. I was busy. I did
not know who was speaking.
Senator Bourne. Then what?
Mr. Archer. I heard him give orders to lower the boat. The last
order I received after I heard that was from the officer, to allow
nobody in the boat, and there was no one else to get into the boat.
That was just prior to starting the lowering.
Senator Bourne. You and your mate were in the boat?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was the officer in the boat?
Mr. Archer. No; no officer in the boat.
Senator Bourne. Then you lowered the boat?
Mr. Archer. We lowered the boat, and my mate pulled at the
releasing bar for both falls, and that cleared the boat, and we started
to null away.
senator Bourne. Having about 50 passengers in the boat and only
your mate and yourself ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; the master-at-arms came down after us.
He was the coxswain.
Senator Bourne. He came down one of the ropes ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; came down the fall.
Senator Bourne. He was sent by an officer ?
Mr. Archer. I presume he was sent by an officer.
Senator Bourne. To help fill up your complement ?
646 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Archer. He said he was sent down to be the coxswain of the
boat.
Senator Bourne. And he took charge ?
Mr. Archer. He took charge.
Senator Bourne. And you acted under his orders, you and your
mate?
Mr. Archer. Yes.
Senator Bourne. So there were three of you and about 50 pas-
sengers ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. All women and children, or some men ?
Mr. Archer. All women and children.
Senator Bourne. While you were loading the boat was there any
eflFort made on the part of the others to crowd into the boat ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir; I never saw any.
Senator Bourne. No confusion ?
Mr. Archer. No confusion at all.
Senator Bourne. No individuals, men or others, who were repelled
from geeting in ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir; I never saw anything of that at all, sir;
everything was quiet and steady.
Senator Bourne. Then after you commenced to row away ?
Mr. Archer. We rowed, I should say, a quarter of a mile away from
the ship, and we remained there.
Senator Bourne. Why did you remain ?
Mr. Archer. We stood by the ship, sir. We would not go right
away from it. To tell you the truth, I did not think the ship would
go down. I thought we might go back to her again afterwards.
Senator Bourne. After she struck, the general impression, so far
as the ship was concerned, was that she was not going to sink ?
Mr. Archer. I did not think so myself, sir.
Senator Bourne. You remained, then, about a quarter of a mile
away, and what happened ?
Mr. Archer. I heard a couple of explosions.
Senator Bourne. You heard two ?
Mr. Archer. I heard two.
Senator Bourne. How far apart were the two ?
Mr. Archer. I should say they would be about 20 minutes between
each explosion. From the time I heard the first one until I heard
the second one it would be about 20 minutes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Wliat did you assume from the explosions ?
Mr. Archer. That the water had gotten into the boiler room.
Senator Bourne. Were you sufficiently near so that you could see
the ship itself when you were about a quarter of a mile away ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; quite distinguish it.
Senator Bourne. That is, the lights on the ship ?
Mr. Archer. Oh, yes; sir.
Senator Bourne. Did the bow lights go out first ?
Mr. Archer. They started to go out from forward.
Senator Bourne. Did quite a number of the lights in the bow, or
forward, go out at the same time ?
Mr. Ajicher. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Or were they gradually going out ?
Mr. Archer. Gradually worked along, sir.
(( 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 647
Senator Bourne. From bow to stern ?
Air. Archer. From bow to stern; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Do you think the ship broke in two ?
Mr. Archer. Well, I could not say that, sir.
Senator Bourne. There was nothing that gave you such an impres-
sion ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. You were watching the ship all the time?
Mr. Archer. Watching it settle down all the time; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long a period elapsed from the time the
lights began to go out forward, and then aft, before all the lights
w^ent out? Two or three minutes or seconds?
Mr. Archer. I should say three quarters of an hour.
Senator Bourne. You would ?
- Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; from the time they first started to go out.
Senator Bourne. You were not familiar with the boiler rooms on
the ship ?
Mr. Archer. No, sir; I never was in the boiler rooms at all.
Seantor Bourne. Did you hear any cries after the lights went out t
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; when the ship went down she seemed to
come up on end.
Senator Bourne. When she came up on end, the stern up in the air,
was her keel visible ? Did you see that ?
Mr. Archer. I could not say, sir, that I could see her keel.
Senator Bourne. W^ere the lights still visible on the stern?
Mr. Archer. No, sir; the lights were out.
Senator Bourne. How, at that time in the morning, would it be
possible for you to see that the stern was in the air and the bow down,
at a distance of a quarter of a mile ? It was just a black object, was
it not ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; just a black mass.
Senator Bourne. What time, about, did you figure this was?
Have you any idea ?
Mr. Archer. Well, I should say about 2 o'clock.
Senator Bourne. But that would be a guess on your part, would it ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; about 2 o'clock. I had no watch to see
any time, so it would be only a rough guess.
Senator Bourne. Then what did you do after the ship had sunk ?
Mr. Archer. It was spoken by one of the lady passengers to go
back and see if there was anyone in the water we could pick up, but
I never head any more of it after that.
Senator Bourne. And the boat was in charge of the master-at-
arms?
Mr. Archer. The master-at-arms had charge of the boat.
Senator Bourne. Did this lady request you to go back ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; she requested us to go back.
Senator Bourne. Wliat did he say ?
Mr. Archer. I did not hear; I was iu the forepart of the boat.
Senator Bourne. There were 50 people in the boat ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And you were rowing ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did any of the ladies in the boat ask to help to
row or take a trick at the oar ?
(t ™, ,^^ ff
648 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Archer. There was one, a stewardess.
Senator Bourne. She tried to assist ?
Mr. Archer. She tried to assist. -
Senator Bourne. And she did?
Mr. Archer. She did do so. I told her it was not necessary for
her to do it, but she said she would like to do it to keep herself warm.
Senator Bourne. Your boat was perfectly water-tight I
Mr. Archer. Oh, yes; no water in it at all, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then you stood by until the Carpathia rescued
you all?
Mr. Archer. And we fancied we saw a light, sir, and we started
to pull toward the light for a time, and then, after we had been pulling
for it half an hour, we saw the Carjmthia^s side lights.
Senator Bourne, Was it the Carpathia you thought you saw ?
Mr. Archer, Not in the first place.
Senator Bourne. What was that ?
Mr, Archer, We did not know what became of that. When we
saw the Carpathia, we turned to go back, I knew that was a steam-
boat of some kind, so we turned and made back towards the Car-
mUhia. Of course, it turned out to be the Carpaihia, We did not
Know at the time what ship it was, but I knew it was a steamboat of
some kind.
Senator Bourne. Were any of your people transferred from your
boat after you lowered her, or taken from tne water by you ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; one fireman. There was one &eman found
in the boat after we got clear. I do not know how he come there.
Senator Bourne, Was he taken out of the water ?
Mr, Archer, No, sir; I do not know how he come in the boat. He
was transferred from another boat, I think it was No. 9, after we were
puUing toward the Carpathia.
Senator Bourne. Wny was he transferred; to help row the other
boat ?
Mr. Archer. Yes, sir; to help row the other. I believe that there
was only one other able seaman in it.
Senator Bourne. Do you know his name ?
Mr. Archer. The fireman's ?
Senator Bourne, Yes.
Mr, Archer. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Bourne, What were your duties at sea ?
Mr, Archer, Keeping the ship clean; washing the paint work;
scrubbing and keeping the deck clean.
Senator Bourne, Thank you, Mr, Archer.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONT OF W. BEIGE.
[Testimony taken before Senator Bourne on behalf of the subcommitte.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Bourne.
Senator Bourne. Kindly state your age ?
Mr. Brice, Forty-two,
Senator Bourne. And your residence?
Mr, Brice, Eleven Lower Canal Walk, Southampton.
Senator Bourne, And your occupation?
Mr. Brice, Seaman, sir.
tt _^„. «.,^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 649
Senator Bourne. Able-bodietl seaman ?
Mr. Brice. Able-bodied seaman.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been rated as a first-class,
able-bodied seaman ?
Mr. Brice. Twentv-two years, sir.
Senator Bourne. iHave you been on sailing ships or steamships all
the time?
Mr. Brice. Sailing and steam ships ?
Senator Bourne. Both ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been with the White
Star Co. ?
Mr. Brice. I have been in three ships.
Senator Bourne. What ships?
Mr. Brice. The Majestic — twice in her — the Oceanic^ and the
Titanic.
Senator Bourne. WTien did you join the Titanic?
Mr. Brice. On Monday, sir. I signed on Monday and joined her
on Wednesday.
Senator Bourne. You were on her at the time of the accident ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were you on watch when the accident occurred ?
Mr. Brice. I was on watch, sir.
Senator Bourne. How long watch did they have on the Titanic?
Mr. Brice. Four hours, sir.
Senator Bourne. Four on and four ofT?
Mr. Brice. Four on, sir, and four oflp, with the exception of double
watches. Then you go two on and two off.
Senator Bourne. That is customary in all boats?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. What time did you go on watch on the day the
accident occurred ?
Mr. Brice. Eight o'clock.
Senator Bourne. You were on until 12 ?
Mr. Brice. On until 12.
Senator Bourne. Where were you at the time of the accident ?
Mr. Brice. Outside of the seamen's mess room, sir.
Senator Bourne. ^Vhat was your duty during that watch ?
Mr. Brice. W^e were doine nothing, sir, as it was Sunday night.
Senator Bourne. If it had been a week night what would have been
your duty?
Mr. Brice. We would have been washing the deck, sir.
Senator Bourne. Even though it was between 10 and 12 o'clock
at night you would have been w^ashing the deck ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. On Sundav nights vou do not do that ?
Mr. Brice. They excuse us from washing deck Sunday night.
Senator Bourne. Will you kindly tell in your own way what
occurred, and what impression it made on your mind, at the time of
the occurrence of the accident, and what followed afterwards imtil
you left the ship ?
Mr. Brice. I went outside of the seamen's mess room, when I
heard a crash and felt the effect of the crash, as it were
Senator Bourne. How severe a motion was it ? Did it throw you
off of your feet, at all ?
660 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Brice. No, sir. It was like a heavy vibration. It was not a
violent shock.
Senator Bourne, There was no jar ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir- not a bad jar, as you would call it.
Senator Bourne. But it made a noise ?
Mr. Brice. A rumbling noise, sir.
Senator Bourne. That continued how long?
Mr. Brice. About 10 seconds; somewhere about that.
Senator Bourne. What did you think it was ?
Mr. Brice. I had no idea, sir, at the time, until I went on the fore-
well deck and saw ice on the deck.
Senator Bourne. Which was your boat ?
Mr. Brice. No. 11 boat, sir.
Senator Bourne. That was your boat to which you were allotted
when you joined the ship 'i
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How soon after you joined the ship did you
receive notice of your allotment to No. 11?
Mr. Brice. I joined the ship, and the lists were put up about Friday,
you might say, sir; I will not be sure.
Senator Bourne. Was there any notice posted that any boat drill
was to take place ?
Mr. Brice. The only boat drill, sir, was on the dav of leaving.
Senator Bourne. No notice was posted as to drills ?
Mr. Brice. There was one notice given for the emergency-boat
crews. There were men told off.
Senator Bourne. What day was the notice posted for the emer-
gency-boat drill ?
Mr. Brice. That would be the same day, Thursday morning; they
were told off for the emergency boat crew in case of accident. They
were mustered at the boats every evening at 6 o'clock; mustered by a
junior officer, and then dismissed.
Senator Bourne. After you went to No. 11 boat, what did you do ?
Mr. Brice. The boat was filled from A deck, sir; there was an
officer said, *'Is there a sailor in the boat?'' Wliich officer it was I
could not say, amongst the crowd. There was only one officer that
I^^knew, and tliat was Mr. Lightoller. There was no answer. I
jumped out and went down the fall into the bow of the boat. There
was nobody in the stern of the boat. I went aft and shipped the
rudder, anj in that time the boat had been filled with women and
children.
Senator Bourne. But before it was lowered ?
Mr. Brice. It was lowered to A deck, sir.
Senator Bourne. You went down tlie fall, from where you were,
down to A deck ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And shipped the rudder ?
Mr. Brice. Shij)pcd the ruader, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then you helped load the boat with women and
children ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir; I was in the boat.
Senator Bourne. I said, you helped load it ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir; I was shipping the rudder, sir, during the time
the boat was being filled.
€t «.M..«**^ ff
TITAKIO DI8ABTEB. 651
Senator Bourne. Were you in the boat when it was lowered from
the boat deck to A deck ?
Mr. Brige. I helped to lower the boat from the boat deck to A
deck.
Senator Bourne. You helped to lower the boat from the boat deck
down to A deck ?
^Ir. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then vou went down the fall ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And j-ou went aft and began shipping the rudder 1
^It. Brice. I went aft and began shipping the ruader, and during
the time I was shii)pingthe rudder the boat was being filled. They
lowered the boat, sir. We had a bit of difficulty in keeping the boat
clear of an outlet, a big bodv of water coming from the snip's side.
The after block got jammea, but I think that must have oeen on
account of the tnp not being pushed right down to disconnect the
block from the boat. We managed to keep the boat clear from this
body of water coining from the smp's side.
Senator Bourne. What was this body of water coming from the
ship's side ? Was it the bilge water, or what was it ?
Mr. Brice. It was the pump discharge.
Senator Bourne. Then what?
Mr. Brice. When we got the block clear of the boat, we pulled
away from the ship.
Senator Bourne. Did the officer know that you were in the boat?
Mr. Brice. Well, I do not know which officer it was, sir, because I
could not see who it was.
Senator Bourne. Did you have your complement in that boat that
you were in the stern of ?
Mr. Brice. I was in the bow of the boat in the first place, and then
I went to the stern, and there I remained.
Senator Bourne. ^Vhen did the man who was in the bow of the
boat get in ? Did he get in on the A deck ?
Mr. Brice. He was not in tlxe boat above the A deck. He must
have got in from the A deck.
Senator Bourne. There were only two seamen in the boat, then?
Mr. Brice. Two seamen.
Senator Bourne. Were there any others besides those and the
women and children already in ?
Mr. Brice. Only a fireman and about six stewards.
Senator Bourne. They were directed by the officer to get in ?
Mr. Brice. I could not say, sir. I was busy shipping the rudder
during the time the boat was being filled.
Senator Bourne. How many passengers did you get into No. 11
boat?
Mr. Brice. About 60, sir.
Senator Bourne. Sixty ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then vou had, besides, 60 passengers
Mr. Brice. I mean 60 all told, sir.
Senator Bourne. Fifty-two passengers, 6 stewards, yourself, and
your mate ?
Mr. Brice. And one fireman, sir.
Senator Bourne. Then you had only 51 passengers?
652 TITANIC DI8ASTBE.
Mr. Brice. Yes.
Senator Boukne. Were there any women or children who tried to
get into the boat, who were unable to do so ?
Mr. Brice. Not that I saw, sir.
Senator Bourne. Or any other passen^rs ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir; there was no rush, or any panic whatever,
that I saw. Everything was done quietly.
Senator Bourne. There was perfect order and discipline ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were the other boats, or any of the other boats,
loaded from the A deck, except your boat. No. 11?
Mr. Brice. No. 9 went out from A deck. I lowered the boat from
the boat deck to A deck — No. 9. When it was loaded, I lowered it
down to the water.
Senator Bourne. You lowered it; but I say were any of the other
boats filled with passengers from the A deck?
Mr. Brice. I tnink they were aU lowered to A deck, as it was
easier for passengers to get in from A deck.
Senator Bourne. Then the passengers got aboard from A deck?
lifr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Who had charge of the boat ?
Mr. Brice. Mr. Humplireys.
Senator Bourne. What was his position ?
Mr. Brice. lie was an able seaman.
Senator Bourne. Who designated him to take charge of the boat,
the officer ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. He took charge ?
Mr. Brice. He took charge himself,
Senator Bourne. Why did he take charge in preference to you ?
Did he rank you ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. You were equal in rank?
Mr. Brice. The only diflference was that he was on the saloon deck.
Senator Bourne. He took chaise?
Mr. Brice. He took charge.
Senator Bourne. What did you do after you reached the water
with the boat ?
Mr. Brice. We pulled away from the ship, sir.
Senator*BouRNE. How far?
Mr. Brice. I suppose about a quarter of a mile from the ship.
Senator Bourne. Under Mr. Humphrey's direction, or were you
directed from the ship ?
Mr. Brice. Under our own direction. We had nobody to give us
any orders at all.
Senator Bourne. You pulled away about a quarter of a mile ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were there other boats pulling away about the
same time ?
Mr. Brice. There was one boat ahead of us that we could see.
Senator Bourne. Did you have a light on your boat ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir; no lantern, sir. I searched for the lantern.
I cut the lashing from the oil bottle and cut rope and made torches.
Senator Bourne. Any provisions and water in the boat at all?
tl .^^^ f>
TITANIC DI8ASTBB. 653
Mr. Brige. I could not say that, sir, because we never bothered
to look.
Senator Bourne. Was it your impression that the Titanic was
going to sink, or did you think she would float; that she was non-
sinkable ?
Mr. Bricb. I did not think she was ^oing to sink.
Senator Bourne. Did you see her smki
]\fr. Bbice. I saw her sink.
Senator Bourne. Did she go bow down first?
Mr. Brige. .Bow down first.
Senator Bourne. Did her stem rise in the air?
Mr. Brige. She went down almost perpendicular.
Senator Bourne. Were the lights stiU m the stem as she sank?
Mr. Brige. No, sir; she became a black mass before she made the
fijial plunge..
Senator Bourne. You were about a quarter of a mile away ?
Mr. Brige. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Was there any explosion that you heard ?
Mr. Brige. I heard two rumbling noises.
Senator Bourne. After she began to go bow down or before?
Mr. Brige. She was well down.
Senator Bourne. How far apart in time, probably, were the two
explosions ?
Mr. Brige. From 8 to 10 minutes.
Senator Bourne. The lights were out?
Mr. Brige. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. When the first explosion occurred, were the
lights out ?
Mr. Brige. The lights were still on in the after end of the ship after
the first and second explosions.
Senator Bourne. Have you any idea whether she broke in two
or not ?
Mr. Brige. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you figure that your boat was loaded to full
capacity when you rowed away from the «hip ?
Mr. £iRiGE. You could not get to pull a stroke on the oar at all;
she was packed.
Senator Bourne. Wliat made you assume it would have been
dangerous to take on another passenger ?
\&. Brige. It would not have been dangerous to take two or three,
but there was somebody there giving orders about the boat, whoever
he was; I do not know; I could not say. When you are loading a
boat it all depends on the weather how many you can load on a boat.
Senator Bourne. How long did you rest on your oars after you
had gotten about a mile from the ship ?
Mr. Brige. We did not do any pulling at all, sir; only keeping the
boat up head to the wind.
Senator Bourne. How long did you remain that way ?
Mr. Brige. Until we saw the Carpathia,
Senator Bourne. A couple of hours ?
Mr. Brige. I suppose it would be, sir, a couple of hours or more.
Senator Bourne. Did any other boat come in your vicinity ?
Mr. Brige. No, sir. There was one ahead of us and one directly
astern of us.
t€ —.^.•^^ 99
654 TTTAKIO DISASTER.
Senator Boubnb. None of the regular ship's officers took charge of
your boat; at all ?
Mr. Bbige. None at all, sir.
Senator Bourne. Have you heard any criticism raised on the part
of the men as to the management of tne ship, at all; or any blame
attached to anyone because of this catastrophe, in any way %
Mr. Bbige. I have not, sir.
Senator Bourne. And the Titanic was as well managed as any of
the ships you have sailed on in the 22 years you have oeen an able
seaman ?
Mr. Brioe. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did you ever serve as a lookout and go into the
eyes of a ship to look out for ice, or in a fog ?
Mr. Brice. I have served as lookout, but not on the White Star
Line.
Senator Bourne. Those are the crow's-nest men ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Had you ever had any experience with ice before ?
Mr. Brice. Never, sir.
Senator Bourne. You never went down in the boiler room ?
Mr. Brice. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. The White Star management has a good reputa-
tion among the mariners and sailors; I mean, the boys like to ship on
their line ?
Mr. Brice. I never have heard anything bad said about them.
Senator Bourne. They stand as well as any line, so far as their
treatment of their men is concerned and the wages paid, and all ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir; in all of the ships I have been in.
Senator Bourne. After you left the ship were there any of the pas-
sengers or men transferred from No. 11 to any other boat?
Mr. Brice. None at all, sir.
Senator Bourne. And you picked up none from the sea ?
Mr. Brice. We picked up none; no, sir.
Senator Bourne. Did not see any ?
Mr. Brice. We did not see any.
Senator Bourne. What was the idea of going a quarter of a mile
away from the ship when she was sinidng ? Did you fear the suction
of her going down ?
Mr. Brice. Well, that is the idea, sir; the suction.
Senator Bourne. The general impression is that in the sinking of
a ship an enormous suction is created that may take down other boats
in the vicinity ?
Mr. Brice. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. How many male passengers did you have among
the 51 passengers that you had in the boat? Were they all women
and children ?
Mr. Brice. Well, about 45 women and about 4 or 5 children in
arms.
Senator Bourne. Any male passengers at all ?
Mr. Brice. None at all, sir; not that I saw.
Senator Bourne. W^e are very much obliged to you.
At 7.45 o'clock p. m. the taking of testimony before Senator Bourne
was adjourned.
" TIT..A.lSriC " IDIS^^STEIR
^^\ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMIHEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY^ECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIQATE THE CAUSES LEADINQ TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
Appendix to Part 7
Prioted for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
(JOVKRNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
United States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Ckaintan,
QSOROE C. PERKINS, California. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jb., Oregon. FRANCIS O. KBWLANDS, Navttda.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTST, Clerk.
U
" TITANIC " DISASTER. 655
TEUBSDAY, APBIL d6, 191d.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate,
WculhinffUm, u. 0.
Testimony Taken Separately Before Senator William Alden
Smith on Behalf of the Subcommittee.
The taking of testimony before Senator Smith was begun at 10
o'clock p. m.
TE8TIM0HT OF ALBBBT HAOnSS.
Mr. Haines was duly sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Where do you live ?
Mr. Haines. In Kent. My home is in Kent.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Haines. Thirty-one, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Haines. Boatswain's mate.
Senator Smith. What are your duties on ship ?
Mx. Haines. I take charge of one watch, sir; the starboard.
Senator Smith. What watch ?
Mr. Haines. The starboard watch, sir.
Senator Smith. What are vour duties ?
Mr. Haines. I am in charge of one of the watches, doing the work
of the ship.
Senator Smith. Of what does your duty consist ?
Mr. Haines. In keeping the decks clean, and the paint work;
looking after the men, and keeping the decks clean — washing the
decks down.
Senator Smith . When did you loin the Titanic?
Mr. Haines. I joined her at Belfast.
Senator Smith. On what date ?
Mr. Haines. I was there just about a week before she came away.
Senator Smith. Before she sailed from Belfast ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were • you on board when the trial trips were
made?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything special to do during those
trips?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliere was your station or watch ?
Mr. Haines. I am stationea out on the poop. I have the watch
out on the poop going in and out of the harbor.
• Senator Smith. You went with the ship from Belfast to South-
ampton?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And sailed with the Titanic on its voyage from
Southampton on April 10?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
656 TITAl^IC WBASTBB.
Senator Smith. On tlie tiip from Southampton to the place where
this accident occurred, will you just tell what you did and what 3'ou
saw, if anything ?
Air. HAtNBB. There was nothing unusual occurred until we had
the Accident.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the accident occurred ?
Mr. Hainks. I was standing bv, down below. It being Sunday
night, the men did Aot work Sunday night, and the men were in the
mess room, and I was outside, sir. If it had been any other night,
we ^i^uld have been wiashing the decks.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by the expression ** standing
by"?
Mr. Haines. Standing by for any orders. I was standing under
the forecastle, waiting lor any orders, so that I would be available
if they wanted me.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any oniers that n^ht i
Mr. Haines. Not before she struck; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain on the bndge i
Mr. Haines. Afterwards. I saw nim when we was getting the
boats out.
Senator Smith. After the coUisionI
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him before ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I did not have tause to go on the bridge
before.
Senator Smith. He might have been there and you not have seen
him?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Officer LightoUer there that night ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or Officer Murdock ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; I was working with Officer Murdock; and
Mr. Wilde, chief officer, was working with us, too.
Senator Smith. Did they give you any orders ?
Mr. Haines. Yes^ir.
^nator Smith. What orders ?
Mr. Haines. When I first heard the blow, I heard some air escap-
ing right forward, and I ran forward to the exhaust from the fore-
peak tank. I said the forepeak tank was filling and the air was com-
ing out and the water was coming in. It was an overflow pipe.
Senator Smith. What was said about that ?
Mr. Haines. Just as I got there the chief officer, Mr. Wilde, had
gotten there, and the lamp trimmer was there, Mr. Hemming.
Senator Smith. What was said there?
Mr. Haines. We said the forepeak tank was filling; the air was
coming out and the water was coming in.
He asked if there was any water m the forepeak, and the store-
keeper went into the forepeak, and there was no water there, sir.
That is the forepeak, sir; not the forepeak tank. The forepeak tank
was full.
The chief officer then went on the bridge to report.
Senator Smith. What time was that?
Mr. Haines. The right time, without putting the clock back,
was 20 minutes to 12.
t( 9 9
TITANIC DISA8TEB. 657
Senator Smith. What was done tlien?
Mr. Haines. I went down to look at No. 1 hole.
Senator Smith. What did you find there?
Mr. Haines. The tarpaulin was bellying up, raising, showing that
the water was coining in.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Haines. I went on the bridge and reported to the chief officer.
Senator Smith. What was said then ?
Mr. Haines. I told him No. 1 hole was filling. He gave me an
order then to get the men up and get the boats out.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Haines. I worked on the boats, sir; got all the boats swung
out.
Senator Smith. The lifeboats ?
Mr. Haines. The lifeboats; yes, sir. Then I went and stood by my
own boat, sir, No. 9.
Senator Smith. On which side ? ^
Mr. Haines. On the starboard side.
Senator Smith. What happened then ?
Mr. Haines. We had the ooat crew there, and Mr. Murdock came
along with a crowd of passengers, and we filled the boat with ladies,
and Towered the boat, and he told me to lay off and keep clear of the
ship. I got the boat clear, sir, and laid out near the ship.
I did not think the ship would sink, of course, sir.
When I saw her going down by the head, I pulled farther away, for
the safety of the people in the boat.
Senator Smith. . How far away ?
Mr. Haines. About 100 yards away at first, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock told you to get into this boat ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir. I was in cnarge of that boat. That was
my own boat, there being two sailors with me.
Senator Smith. What were their names ?
Mr. Haines. One was named McGow, and there was one by the
name of Peters. That was my boat's crew.
Senator Smith. That is, your regular boat's crew?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; just the two men.
Senator Smith. Was there a station biU posted at that time on the
Titanicf
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; a boat-station bill, before ever the ship left.
As soon as the crew is known they make out the list and put it up in
the crew's quarters. Every man has a lifeboat station.
Senator Smith. Of the crew ?
Mr. Haines. The crew had; every one of the crew. They were
told off in the different boats.
Senator Smith. Then what happened ?
Mr. Haines. We saw the ship go down by the head.
Senator Smith. Did you go back near the ship ?
Mr. Haines. I had a boat load, sir, and I asked the men if they
thought it advisable to go back. They said there was no more room,
sir, and the boat was overloaded. To go back I thought would be
dangerous.
Senator Smith. How many men were there in the boat ?
Mr. Haines. We had over 50 in our boat all together.
Senator Smith. Men ?
668 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Haines. The two sailors; and then I could not exactly say
how many men, but there were three or four stewards, and three or
four firemen.
Senator Smith. Do you remember their names ?
Mr. Haines. I think the stewards are here with us now, sir.
Senator Smith. Just give their names, please.
Mr. Haines. I do not know their names.
Senator Smith. You do not remember just who they were ?
Mr. Haines. I know their faces ; but I do not know their names, sir.
Senator Smith. Besides the stewards ?
Mr. Haines. We had some firemen and two or three men passengers.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you heard, since, who they were?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; i never spoke to any of them afterwards.
Senator Smith. How many stewards were there in your boat?
MjT, Haines. There might have been half a dozen. I do not know
the exact number, sir.
Senator Smith. And how many firemen ?
Mr. Haines. I could not sav, sir; two or three, or three or four.
Senator Smith. And were there any other members of the crew ?
Afr. Haines. No, sir; no more of the crew.
Senator Smith. Then there were about 15 men, altogether?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men were there in the boat?
' Afr. Haines. I counted them. I guess there were about 45 to 48.
When there were no more women forthcoming, .the boat was full.
They were singing out for the women, and the men then jumped in the
bows of her and filled the bow up. The boat was chockablock, sir.
Senator Smith.' You had 63 in your boat ?
Mr. Haines. I could not say within one or two, but around 60,
I had.
Senator Smith. Was this the first* boat that was lowered ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On the starboard side ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir. We started forward, and I was No. 9. I was
about the fifth boat to be lowered on the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the women in this boat ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I do not know their names. I would know
them by sight; some of them.
Senator Smith. Did you afterwards find out who any of them were ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty in lowering your boat?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you handled it after you got to the water, all
right ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was this one of the largest sized Ufeboats ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir. One of the largest size, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any officer m that boat ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Murdock tell you to do an vthing with that
boatload of people and to then come back to the snip; or did any
officer tell you tnat ?
if ...,^^«**^ ff
TITAinO DISASTER. 659
Mr. Haines. No, sir; he told me to keep them away, and lay off
clear. That is what he said.
Senator Smith. How far were you from the Titanicf How far off
did you lay?
Mr. Haines. I laid off close to her at first, sir.
Senator Smith. How close ?
Mr. Haines. Within 100 yards at first, sir, until I saw her going
clown by the head.
Senator Smith. You kept within a hundred yards of her?
Mr. Haines. For a time; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Until you saw her going down by the head ?
Mr. Haines. Yes; until I saw she was graduaUy sinking farther
and farther down.
Senator Smith. You then pulled away farther?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any people in the water ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any cries for help ?
Mr. Haines. Yes. sir; we heard some cries after the ship went down«
Senator Smith. Did anybody in your boat urge you to return ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir. I called the sailors ait, and I passed the
remark to them: "There is People in the water." I said, "Do you
tliink it advisable?" I said, "We can't do nothing with this crowd
we have in the boat, ' ' because we had no room to row, let alone do
anything else, sir; and it was no good of our going back. By the
time we got back there, we could not have done anything. We could
not move in the boat, let alone row. I thought it unsaie to go back
there, sir, having so many in the boat.
Senator Smith. What did you do after the ship went down ?
Mr. Haines. I told the men it was no good rowing; that we could
not do anything until the morning, and I just lay there all night, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have a light on your boat ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; I had a lamp there, a little pocket lamp.
Senator Smith. Was the lamp lighted ?
.Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any provisions on your boat ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have water ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; biscuits and water, sir.
Senator Smith. What happened then ?
Mr. Haines. Just as it got daylight, sir, I saw the Carpathians lights,
and I pulled toward her and went alongside and put the passengers
aboard the Carpaihia,
Senator Smtth. Were the passengers all alive when you got to the
Carvathiat
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Did the women urge you to go back toward the
boat?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; the women did not, sir. I was in charge of
the boat, sir, and if I had thought it possible I would have gone back.
I took charge of the boat.
Senator SMrrn. Did you help load the other boats ?
Mp. Haines. No, sir; we were turning out the after boats while
they were filling the forward ones. As soon as we finished turning
660 XIXAKIG Di&ASTEB.
■
the boats out I went to my own station. I ^ot to my own boat just
in time, as they filled my boat. The boats warn missecl his boat, No. 7.
No. 7 was gone belore he got there. My own boat was No. 9.
Senator Smith. You did not see any of the other boats loaded ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I did not see any of them loaded. I came
back just in time to take charge of my own boat.
Senator Smith. Is that all you know about this matter ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. These dayits were of a new type, were they t
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Sbuth. Had you ever worked with them before ?
Mr. Haxnbs. In the Olympic I worked with them.
Senator SMrrn. Did they work all right ?
Mr. Haines. They worked very free.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any of them that did not work
all right?
Mr. Haines. No, sir. The screws were all in good condition, and
they keep them covered with little canvas covers. You take the cover
off and one man can haul them out or in, if they are in good condition.
Senator Smith. And when you were on the deck that night, Mar the
bridge, did you see any ice ?
Mr. Haines. I saw the ice on the forewell deck, where she hit small
ice.
Senator Smith. I mean did you sec any ice before she struck?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After she hit, did you see any ice ?
Mr. Haines. I saw a little small ice on the forward side of the fore-
well deck.
Senator Smith. In the morning, when it got daylight, did you see
any ice ?
Mr. Haines. All around, sir.
Senator Smith. You saw ice all around the boats — ^icebergs?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir; and there was a big field of ice there, too.
Senator Smith. How many icebergs?
Mr. Haines. I could not say. There was a good few of them, sir.
They were dotted about all over the place.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen icebergs before ?
Mr. Haines. I had seen them before; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Haines. I had seen them oif Newfoundland.
Senator Smith. Up in this same region ?
Mr. Haines. Furtner north, sir.
Senator Smith. Near the Grand Banks ?
Mr. Haines. I had seen them un at St. Johns, Newfoundland.
Senator Smith. . How many icebergs do you think you saw that
Monday morning following the accident ?
Mr. Haines. Well, there were anywhere from 30 to 50.
Senator Smith. Besides field ice ?
Mr. Haines. Besides the icebergs, sir, there was a big field of ice,
miles long.
Senator Smith. When you said that you saw these icebergs, did
you include large and small ones ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. ^* Growlers," in other words?
i( .^ ff
TITANIC DISA8TEB. Ml
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How high was the lai^est one that you saw ?
Mr. Haines. I should say from 80 to 100 feet Imcli.
Senator Smith. How far away from you was it when you saw it ?
Mr. Haines. About half a mile, sir.
Senator Smith. You had been on the Olympic^ had you not ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Doing the same work ?
Mr. Haines. No, air; I was quartermaster there, sir.
^ Senator Smith. Had you made a trip from SouUiampton to New
York on the Olympic?
Mr. Haines. I was in her from the time slio started right up to the
trip we went to the Titanic^ sir.
oenator Smith. Did you ever see any icebergs while you were on
the Olympicf
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many of the crew of the Titanic liad you
worked with before ?
Mr. Haines. There were several of the Olymvic's crew there. The
men that I had worked with were pretty well aU White Star men.
Some of them I had worked with in tne Adriatic, and some of them in
the Olympic^ sir.
Senator Smith. You had not been out very long on the Titauic?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you had not worked with one another ver}^
long, had you ?
Mr. Haines. Only from Southampton, sir.
Senator Smith. Is there anything more you care to say about this
matter ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
I know of one incident there, where a lady would not come into the
boat. That is all, sir. She would not come into the boat when they
were filling it. One of the ladies refused to get into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did you ask her to get in ?
Mr. Haines. The officers wore trying to get her in.
Mr. Murdock, then, was trying to get her m the boat, ami she would
not get into the boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know who it was ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I could not say who it was.
Senator Smith. How old a woman was it ?
Mr. Haines. I could not say, sir. I could not see. I only know
there was a lady there that wouM not get into the boat, and she went
back.
Senator Smith. Did she say she would not get into the boat
because of her family or husband ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I do not think it was that, at all. I think
she was afraid to get into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did the women hesitate a little about getting
into the boat ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; none of the others. I did not see any of the
others hesitate, except this one. *
Senator Smith. Did the men passengers try to get into the boats ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I did not see any of them do it, at least.
Senator Smith. Were thev told to stand back?
662 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Haines. Yos.
Senator Smith. By Officer Murdock ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say when he told them that ?
Mr. Haines. He just stood there; that is all.
Senator Smith. What did he say ?
Mr. Haines. He filled the boats with the ladies. He told me to
put all these ladies in the boat, and he filled her up, sir. When she
was full two or three men jumped in the bow of her. He said, ' *That
is enough,'' and he lowered her down.
Senator Smith*. What officer stood with you at the boat you
•lowered; that is, at the boat, and helped loaa it and lower it?
Mr. Haines. Mr. Murdock, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any other officer there ?
Mr. Haines. I never noticed any other; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Lowe ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I did not see him.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Boxhall ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir.
Senator Smffh. Or Mr. Pitman ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I never saw any of them, only Mr. Murdock.
He was in charge. He filled our boat alone, sir.
Senator Smith. And with 63 people in your boat, she lowered
all right »
Mr. Haines. She lowered from the davits; yes, sir. She lowered
from the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. Did all the occupants of your boat get in from the
boat deck ?
Mr. Haines. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did any of them attempt to get in as it was being
lowered to the water ?
Mr. Haines. No, sir; I did not see any of them. We had only to
pass one deck where they could get in. That would be A deck.
Senator Smith. Did you have a compass in your boat?
Mr. Haines. I did not see one, sir. I do not know whether there
was one in there or not. We did not require one, sir. As soon as it
got dayUght, sir, we sighted the ship.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the board of trade regula-
tions required one to be in the boat ?
Mr. Haines. They have them aboard, sir. They are aboard.
They have a place where they stow them in the lockers. But whelJier
they were put into the boat or not I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not see any ?
Mr. Haines. I did not see it, and I did not look for it.
Senator Smith. That is all.
TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL S. HE]
I ii.(t
Mr. Hemming was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you live?
Mr. Hemming. 51 Kinsley Road, Southampton.
Senator Smith. What is your age ?
Mr. Hemming. Forty-three.
Senator Smith. What is your occupation ?
it .»»..«*«^ 99
TITAKIO DISASTSB. 668
Mr. Hemming. Seaman.
Senator Smith. Have you ever had a rate as a seaman ? Have
you a rate as A. B. ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you followed the water \
Mr. Hemming. Since I was 15 years old.
Senator Smith. Have you sailed the North Atlantic before ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How often?
^iAi. JSsMMiNO. I have been with the White Star Line for five vears.
Senator Smith. On what boats on that line have you served f
Mr. Hemming. On the Tevionic, the Adriatic, the Olympic , and the
Titanic,
Senator Smith. In what capacity ?
Mr. Hemming. As a lamp trimmer, boatswam's mate, and boat-
swam.
Senator Smith. What was your position on the Titanic?
Mr. Hemming. Lamp trimmer.
Senator Smith. What were your duties ?
Mr. Hemming. To mix the paint, and all that kind of thing for the
ship, and to look after all the decks, trim all the lamps, and get them
in proper order. That is all, I think. To put the lights in at night-
time and take them off at daybreak.
Senator Smith. Where were you the night of this accident t
Mr. Hemming. I was in my bunk.
Senator Smith. Were you asleep ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you awakened bjr anybody ?
Mr. Hemming. I was awakened by the impact, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do when vou were awakened ?
Mr. Hemming. I went out and put my nead through the porthole
to see what we hit. I made the remark to the storekeeper. '^It must
have been ice." I said, "I do not see anything."
Senator Smith. What made you think it was ice ?
Mr. Hemming. Because I could not see anything.
Senator Smith. You mean you looked to see if you saw the lights
of another boat, and, not being able to see ajiy such thing, you thought
it was ice ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen ice in that part of the ocean
before ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever been through that part before, on
your route ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliat did you do then ?
Mr. Hemming. I went up under the forecastle head to see where
the hissing noise came from.
Senator Smith. What did you find ?
Mt. Hemming. Nothing.
Senator Smith. Go right along and tell what you did.
Mr. Hemming. I did not see anything. I opened the forepeak
storeroom; me and the storekeeper went down as far as the top of
the tank and found everything dry.
664 TITANIC VIBASTEEU.
I came up to ascertain where the hissing noise was still coming from.
I found it was the air escaping out of the exhaust of the tank.
At that time the chief officer, Mr. Wilde, put his head around the
hawse pipe and says: ^^ What is that, Hemming?'' I said: ''The air
is escaping from the forepeak tank. She is making water in the
forepeaK tank, but the storeroom is quite dry." He said, **A11 right,"
and went away.
Senator Smith. What did vou do then ?
Mr. Hemming. I went back and turned in.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that you went back to your bunk
and went to sle<^p ?
Mr. Hebcming. Me and the storekeeper went back and turned into
our bunks.
Senator Smith. How long did you stav in your bunks ?
Mr. HsMMiNa. We went oack m our bunks a few minutes. Then
the joiner came in and he said : " If I were you, I would turn out, you
fellows. She is making water, one-two-three, and the racket court
is getting filled up."
Just as he went, the boatswain came, and he says, '* Turn out, you
fellows," he says; ''you haven't half an hour to live." He said:
"That is from Mr. Andrews." He said: "Keep it to yourselves, and
let no one know."
Senator Smith. Mr. Andrews was of the firm of Harland & Wolff,
the builders of the ship ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the ship struck this ice ?
Mr. Hemming. It would oe about a quarter of an hour, sir, from
the time the ship struck.
Senator Smffh. What did vou do then ?
Mr. Hemming. I went on deck to help to get the boats out.
Senator Smith. On which side of the deck ?
Mr. Hemming. On the port side.
Senator Smith. Wliat boat did you go to ? To which station did
you go ?
Mr. Hemming. Mv station was boat No. 16 on the boat list.
Senator Smith. To what boat did you go ?
Mr. Hemming. I went and helj)ed turn out; started with the fore-
most boat, and then worked aft.
Senator Smith. Did you assist in turning out the boats ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What boat did vou get to first ?
Mr. Hemming. I am not sure wliether it was Xo. 4 or No. 6.
Senator Smith. On the same side, the port side?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it No. 4 or No. 6 that you went to first ? Was
it one or the other, I mean ?
Mr. Hemming. It was one or the other.
Senator Smith. Did you help to turn out both boats?
Mr. Hemming. I went on the boat deck. They were turning the
boats out. As I went to the deck, I went there where were the least
men, and helped to turn out the boats.
Then I went to the boats on the port side, to do the same, until
Mr. LightoUer called me and said, ''Come with me;" and he said,
''Get another good man." I says, "Foley is here somewhere." He
L...
(t ..—..« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 665
says, " I have no time to stop for Foley." So he called a man himself,
and he said, "Follow me.''
Senator Smith. A passenger?
Mr. HEMXTBie. No, sir; a seaman. He said: '^Follow me." So
we followed him, and he said : * * Stand by to lower this boat." It was
No. 4 boat.
We lowered the boat in line with the A deck, when I had an order
come from the captain to see that the boats were properiy provided
with lights.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you got that order ?
Mr. Hbmmiko. I called Mr. Lightoller and told him that I would
have to leave the boat's fall ; so he put another man in my place.
Senator Smith. What other man did he put in your place, if you
know I
Mr. Hemming. I do not know who it was, sir. I went away into
the lamp room, lifting the lamps, and I brou^t them up on deck.
Senator Smith. How long were you gone ?
Mr. Hemming. About five minutes.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
Mr. Hemming. Then I lit the lamps and brought them up, four at a
time, two in each hand.
The boats that were already lowered, I put them on the deck, and
asked them to pass them down on the end of the boat fall. As to the
boats that were not lowered, I gave them into the boats myself.
Senator Smith. Did you give one to each boat t
Mr. Hemming. What was not lowered at that times J^i air.
Senator Smith. How many had been lowered before you got there
with the lamps ?
Mr. Hemming. Some few, sir. I could not say how many.
Senator Smith. Three or four ?
Mr. Hemmino. Yes; quite three or four.
Senator Smith. More than that t
Mr. Hamming. I could only see one side when I fii'st came up.
Senator Smith. That was the port side ?
Mr. Hemming. They were on tne port side, sir.
Senator Smith. But several boats had gone ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Without lights I
Mr. Hemming. They were Towered. I do not know whether they
got lights or not.
Senator Smith. But they were lowered without lights ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.^
Senator Smith. What did you do with these lights or lamps that
you had ? Did you put them in the other boats ?
Mr. Hemming! For the boats that were not lowered, I gave them to
somebody in the boats.
Senator Smith. How many boats did you put them into yourself
on the port side ?
Mr. Hemming. I could not say, sir. Two or three.
iSenator Smith. What did you do, then, after that?
Mr. Hemming. After I had finished with the lamps, sir, when I
made my last journey thev were turning out the port collapsible boat.
I went and assisted Mr. Lightoller to get it out.
After the boat was out I went on top of the officers' house and helped
to clear away the port collapsible boat on that house. After that I
666 TITANIC DISASTEB.
went over to the starboard side. The starboard collapsible boat had
just been lowered.
Senator Smith. Do you mean lowered or pushed oflp?
Mr. Hehmino. Lowered. She was away irom the ship.
Senator Smith. Then what ?
Mr. Hemmino. I rendered up the foremast fall, got the block on
board; and held oa to the block while a man equalized the parts of the
fall. He said, '^ There is a futterfoot in the fall, which fouls the fall
and the block.'' I says, '^I have got it;" and took it out. I passed
the block up to the o&cers' house, and Mr. Moody, the sixth officer,
said: **We don't want the block. We will leave the boat on deck."
I put the fall on the deck, stayed there a moment, and there was no
chance of the boat being cleared away, and I went to the bridge and
looked over and saw the water climbing upon the bridge. I went and
looked over the starboard side, and everything was olack. I went
over to the port side and saw a boat off the port quarter, and I went
along the port side and got up the after boat davits and slid down the
fall and swam to the boat and got it.
Senator Smith. When you say everything looked black, you mean
that there were no boats in sight ?
Mr. Hemming. Everything was black over the starboard side. I
could not see any boate.
Senator Smith. You swam out to this boat that you saw ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far was it from the side of the Tiianicf
Mr. Hemming. About 200 yards.
Senator Smith. Did you swim that 200 yards ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you have a life belt on ?
Mr. Hemming. No. sir.
Senator Smith. When you reached the boat, what did you find ?
yir. Hemming. I tried to get hold of the grab line on the bows, and
it was too hi^h for me, so I swam along and got hold of one of the grab
lines amidships. ,
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Hemming. I puUed my head above the gunwale, and I said,
'^Give us a hand in, Jack. Foley was in the boat. I saw him
standing up in the boat. He said, ^^Is that you, Sam?" I said,
'^ Yes;" ana him and the women and children pulled me in the boat.
Senator Smith. Who had charge of that boat ?
Mr. Hemming. Perkis, quartermaster.
Senator Smith. And they pulled you in ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir. "
Senator Smith. What did you find in the boat ?
Mr. Hemming. It was full of women.
Senator Smith. How many were there ?
^lii. Hemming. There were about 40.
Senator Smith. How many men were there ?
Mr. Hemming. There were four men.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Hemming. Quartermaster Perkis, and there was Foley, the
storekeeper, and McCarthy.
Senator Smith. A sailor ?
Mr. Hemming. A sailor; yes, sir; and a fireman.
if ,«,».. ^^*^ ff
TITANIC DISAfiTEB. 667
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Hemming. I do not know his name, Senator.
Senator Smith. Were there any children in the boat ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; there were children in the boat.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Hemming. Two young ladies and a little girl.
Senator Smith. Altogether, then, there were how many; about 40
women and men and two or three children ?
Mr. Hemming. I did not see the babies until after we got on the
Carpaihia. I did not see the babies at all when I got in the boat.
Senator Smith. But they were in the boat ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. And how many were there of the children ?
Mr. Hemming. Three, sir. I think it was three. I would not be
certain, but I think it was three.
Senator Smith. I gather that there were 47 people put in the boat ?
Mr. Hemming. There would not be 47 altogether, then, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Hemming. About 40, all told, I should think, at that time, sir.
Senator Smith. What was done after you got into the boat ?
Mr. Hemming. They had been backing her away, to get out of the
zone from the ship beiore the ship sank.
Senator Smith. You did not return to the ship's side ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Not at all ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or to the place where the ship sank ?
Mr. Hemming. After the snip had gone we pulled back and picked
up seven.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Hemming. I am not able to say, sir.
Senator Smith. Who else ?
Mr. Hemming. Stewards, firemen, seamen, and one or two men,
passengers ; I could not say exactly which they were ; anyway, I know
there were seven altogether.
Senator Smith. Name what you can of them.
Mr. Hemming. There was one seaman named Lyons, and there were
one or two passengers and one or two firemen. Dillon, a fireman, was
one of them.
Senator Smith. The others of the crew; can you recall that you
picked up any of them out of the water?
Mr. Hemming. The storekeeper.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Hemming. It was the steward's storekeeper.
Senator Smith. Do you remember his name ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; I do not remember his name.
Senator Smith. Who else ?
Mr. Hemming. That is all I know of, sir.
Senator Smith. You say there were two passengers on your boat ?
Mr. Hemming. I said one or two. I could not say exactly. I
know there were seven men altogether. That is all I know.
Senator Smith. Do you know who these passengers were ?
Mr. Hemming. I know one was a third-class passenger.
Senator Smith. What was his name ?
668 TITANIC DISAflTBR.
Mr. Hemming. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was he from 1
Mr. IIemmii^o. That I could not tell you, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he an Englishman or an Ameiiean 1
Mr. Hemming. I spoke to him, and I do not thkxk he was an Eng-
lishman.
Senator Smith. Do you think he was an American t
Mr. Hemming. He spoke very good English, but I have aa idea that
he was a foreigner of some sort.
Senator Smith. You picked these seven men out of the water 9
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they swim to the boat, or did the boat go
to the men ?
Mr. Hemming. Both. They swam toward the boat, and we went
back toward them.
Senator Smith. After you got these seven men in, what did you
do then ?
Mr. Hemming. We hung around for a bit.
Senator Smith. Did you see any more ment
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator SmTH. EMd you hear any more crying t
Mr. Hemming. We heard the cries; yes, sir.'
Senator Smith. Where ? In what direction ? Toward the Titardcf
Mr. Hemming. We were moving aroimd, constantly, sir. Some-
times the stem of the boat would be toward the TUamCf luid some-
times the bow of the boat would be toward the Titanic. One
moment we would be facing one way, and a few moments later we
would be facing another way; first the bow, and then the stern
toward the ship.
Senator Smith. What did you hang around for ?
Mr. Hemming. We did not know what to do.
Senator Smith. Did you pick up any more people in the water ?
Mr. Hemming. Not from the water; no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did these people that you picked up all live until
you reached the Carpaihiaf
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many died ?
Mr. Hembcing. Two.
Senator Smith. Which two ?
Mr. Hemming. Lyons and — I do not know whether it was a stew-
ard or a fireman— one more man besides Lyons.
Senator Smith. Did the rest all live ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. How long did you lay by at that time — after you
picked these seven people out of the water?
Mr. Hemming. Not long, sir. We made for a light.
Senator Smith. You saw a light ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes; one of the boats' lights.
Swiator Smith. You mean a lifeboat light ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
Mr. Hemming. We pulled toward them and got together, and we
picked up another boat and kept in her company. Tlien day broke
and we saw two more boats.
it •?
TITANIC DISASTER. 669
Senator Smith. Lifeboats ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes. We pulled toward them and we all made fast
by painters.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain in that condition ?
Mr. Hemming. Then we heard some hollering going on and we saw
some men standing on what we thought was ice.
Senator Smffh. How far away ?
Mr. Hemming. Half a mile, as nearly as I can judge.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
Mr. Hemming. A good few seemed to be standing there.
Senator Smith. Give me the number approximately. About how
many?
Mr. Hemming. Twenty, I should think.
Senator Smith. Standing on this field of ice ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; standing on what we thought was ice.
Senator Smith. WTiat did you do then ?
Mr. Hemming. Two boats cast off — us and another boat cast off —
and pulled to them, and took them in our two boats.
Senator Smith. Where did you find them ?
Mr. Hemming. On the bottom of this upturned boat.
Senator Smith. Did you take all of the people that were on the
upturned boat into your boat ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; in the two boats.
Senator Smith. You took them into the two boats ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many were there altogether ?
Mr. Hemming. I could not say, sir. I guess about 20, 1 should say,
stood up on the boat.
Senator Smith. Were they standing up, or were they sitting down ?
Mr. Hemming. They were standing up, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do ? Did you take a portion of them
into the boat you were in, and the other portion in otiiers ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was the officer in charge of the boat that
helped you in this ?
Mr. Hemming. There was no officer, sir; a seaman.
Senator Smith. What was his name ?
Mr. Hemming. I think it was Poindexter. I am not sure, but I
think it was.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the number of the boat was ?
Mr. Hemming. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any officer in that boat ?
Mr. Hemming. Mr. Lightoller was on the upturned boat.
Senator Smith. Second Officer Lightoller was on the upturned boat?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he get into your boat ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; the other one, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you remember Bride, the wireless operator of
the Titanic?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir: I do not know the man, sir. If I saw him
I should not know him.
Senator Smith. Did you get all these people into the two boats ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any women among them ?
40475— Ap. pt. 7—12 2
670 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Hemming. I do not think so, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any children among them?
Mr. Hemming. No. sir; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Wnat did you do then?
Mr. Hemming. We pulled away. We went away a bit. Then we
pulled up until we saw the Carpathia, and we pulled to the CarpatJiia.
Senator Smith. It was then daylight?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you pull toward the Carpaihiaf
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did all the people in your boat, then, live until
they got to the Carpathia?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any dead people on this upturned boat ?
Mr. Hemming. I did not see tnem. I did not see one myself, but
I heard there was one. However, I did not see him myself.
Senator Smith, You heard there was ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes; but I did not see him myself.
Senator Smith. You finally got along by the. Carpathiaf
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you get all your passengers on board ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Hemming. I went on board myself, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take the boat aboard?
Mr. Hemming. They did afterwards, sir, I believe. I did not. No,
sir* our boat did not go aboard the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. When you saw this group of men standing on what
you thought was ice, about a half a mile away, did you, at the same
time, see ifce ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any icebergs that morning at all ?
Mr. Hemming. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Hemming. Three or four, sir, I think.
Senator Smith. Large icebergs ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; not very large.
Senator Smith. How large ?
Mr. Hemming. About a moderate size, sir.
Senator Smith. Give the size, as near as you can — the height above
the water.
Mr. Hemming. I should think they would be 12 or 14 feet. Some
more than that, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you say 30 or 40 feet high ?
Mr. Hemming. Twelve or fourteen feet, I say; somewhat more
than that.
Senator Smith. And there were a number of them ?
. Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any field ice ?
Mr, Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much of that ?
ifr. Hemming. A lot of it.
Senator Smith. Miles of it ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
II ^»^ ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 671
Senator Smith. How many miles ?
Mr. Hemming. It extended right across, as far I could see, sir.
Senator Smith. I believe you said you had been opposite the Great
Banks of Newfoundland before ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the Olympic?
Mr. Hemming. On the Olympic and on the Adriatic,
Senator Smith. And on the Adriaticf
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; and on the Teutonic,
Senator Smith. But your duties did not require you to be on deck,
did they?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As a lamp trimmer, you had duties that required
you to be in a room below, or somewhere ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Wlien you looked on the starboard side and saw it
all black, did you, after that, go back to the bridge?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; I was on the bridge, actually on the bridge,
then.
Senator Smith. You were on the bridge, then?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; I was on a side of the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; not then.
Senator Smith. Did you see him at any time on the bridge ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. Hemming. The last time I saw the captain, sir, was just as I
was coming down off the house.
Senator Smith. Just as you came down from the house? You
mean by that the top of the officers' quarters?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where this collapsible boat was ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You saw what ?
Mr. Hemming. The captain was there, and he sung out: '^ Every-
one over to the starboard side, to keep the ship up as long as possible."
Senator Smith. He meant by that to have the people all move to the
starboard side?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there many people on the boat deck at that
time?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Hemming. I could not tell you; a good many.
Senator Smith. Several hundred ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; I should not think it would amount to
several hundred. It amounted to just one or two.
Senator Smith. It amounted to one or two hundred ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Men and women?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; there were no women.
Senator Smith. There were no women there ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; I did not see any women then.
Senator Smith. How long was this before the boat went down ?
672 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr, Hemming. It was some little time.
Senator Smith. How long was it before you slipped into the water ?
Mr. Hemming. About a quarter of an fiour, I should think, sir.
Senator Smith. Was anyone with the captain ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; ne was by himself when I saw him last.
Senator Smith. And at that time did you have a life preserver on i
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have one on at all?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to tell me that you swam from the
Titanic two or three hundred yards ?
Mr. Hemming. Two hundred yards, sir.
Senator Smith. Two hundred yards without a life preserver on ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the water cold ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes. sir; it was cold, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you suffer from the cold ?
Mr. Hemming. It made my feet and hands sore, sir.
Senator Smith. Why did you not put a life preserver on?
Mr. Hemming. After I got out of my room I never got back into
my room again, sir.
Senator Smith. Did other people have life preservers on ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see any people without life preservers ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; I saw the boatswain. The last time I saw
the boatswain he did not have one on.
Senator Smith. Mr. Hemming, you did not have any part, yourself,
in either loading or lowering th^ lifeboats on either side of the ship i
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You stood by lifeboat No. 4, ready to help, when
you were ordered by the captain to get your lamps ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you went about that business ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And brought the lamps back ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At that time, several of the lifeboats had gone ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you put lamps into the others?
^Ir. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the starboard side ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; on the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Did you put the lamps into the lifeboats on the
port side ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir; one or two.
Senator Smith. You put all the lamps into the boats that were put
into the boats ?
Mr. Hemming. I passed them all in, myself.
Senator Smith. Were these the lifeboat lamps, or the ship's
lamps ?
Mr. Hemming. They were the boat lamps.
• Senator Smith. What sort of a lamp was it ?
Mr. Hemming. It was a square lamp.
Senator Smith. How big was that lamp?
<( ^, f}
TITANIC DISASTER. 673
Mr. Hemming. About that high and that square.
Senator Smith. About 10 inches high ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes; about that hign.
Senator Smith. And about 6 inches square? Was it square or
round ?
Mr. Hemming. It was square, sir.
Senator Smith. What kind of oil did you burn in those lamps ?
Mr. Hemming. Colza oil.
Senator Smith. Did you take into your boat from this overturned
boat, that was floating bottom side up with these people standing
on it, half the persons trom that boat?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smfih. How many did you take ?
Mr. Hemming. I think it was about four or five.
Senator Smfih. And the balance of them went into the other boat ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.^
Senator Smith. You do not remember the number of the other
boat?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you do not remember who it was that was in
charge of it?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir; I think it was Poindexter.
Senator Smith. But it was the boat that Mr. Lightoller, the second
officer, got into ?
Mr. Hemming. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you tliink of anytliing else in connection with
this disaster that you care to speak of ?
Mr. Hemming. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many of the ship's handy lamps did you
have ?
Mr. Hemming. We had no handy lamps. Every lamp that we had
was supplied for a certain purpose. We had none outside of that.
Senator Smith. From wnat you say, I gather the impression tliat
the lifeboat lamps were all carried in the lamp room, and not in the
lifeboats ?
Mr. Hemming. That is right, sir.
Senator Smith. You are sure about that ?
Mr. Hemming. I am sure, sir. They were all in tlie lamp room.
There was a special compartment in the lamp room to keep them in.
Senator Smith. I think that is all I have to ask vou.
TESTIMOHT OF FBAVK OUVES EVAVS.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Give your full name to the stenographer.
Mr. Evans. Frank Oliver Evans.
Senator Smith. Where do you live ?
Mr. Evans. In Southampton. St. Michael's House, St. Michaer*
Square, Southampton.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Evans. Twenty-seven.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Evans. Able seaman, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you been a seaman ?
674 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Evans. I was in the Royal Navy, sir.
Senator Smith. How long ?
Mr. Evans. Nine years, sir; nine years and six months.
Senator Smith. On what ships ?
Mr. Evans. Fourteen or fifteen ships; more than that, in fact, sir.
Senator Smith. So you have had considerable experience as a
mariner ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; as a sailor.
Senator Smith. How long have you been on merchant vessels ?
Mr. Evans. On merchant vessels, I have been in the Tintagel
Castle, of the Union Line, in the Femeo, an admiralty collier, and in
the OtympiCy of the White Star Line.
Senator Smith. And you came from the Olympic to the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. To the Titanic; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever sailed the north Atlantic Ocean
before ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; only on that trip in the Olympic, sir.
Senator Smith. What position did you fill or hold on the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. Able-bodied seaman.
Senator Smith. Did you sail in this sliip from Belfast?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. From Southampton ?
Mr. Evans. From Southampton; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell what took place, so far as
you know, of your own knowledge, on the Titanic from the time you
sailed from Southampton up to the time of the accident and your
rescue by the Carpathian and state it in your ow^n way and give me
a connected story.
Mr. Evans. Well, sir, we went on, board; we joined the Titanic on
Wednesday morning at 6 o'clock, and at 8 o'clock we had the first
muster and had an inspection by the officers and went to boat drill.
There were two starboard boats. We went away in one of those
boats. The boats were hoisted up again and then I went on shore
until half past 1 1 , sir.
Senator Smith. State the number of sailors that went in those tw^o
boats — that manned those two boats which were lowered at South-
ampton ?
Mr. Evans. Tliere were nine in each, sir. I would not be sure as
to the exact number, but I tliink there were nine in each.
Senator Smith. Which side of the ship were they lowered from ?
Mr. Evans. The starboard side.
Senator Smith. Tlie port side being against the wharf ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; up against the quay. On the way out we did
the usual routine of scrubbing the decks, working four hours on and
four hours off. On Sunday we do not do anything in regard to scrub-
bing and the like of that. Sunday night was my watch on deck,
and I was sitting at the table readmg a book, and all of a sudden I
felt a slight jar. I did not take any notice of it for a few minutes,
until one of the other able seamen came down with a big lump of ice
in his hands, and he said ^'Look what I found on the fore well deck,"
and he chucked it down on the deck; and I went up the ladder there
and I met one officer.
Senator Smith. Which officer ?
Mr. Evans. The fifth officer, I think.
tt .«■.». ^^.^ >y
TITANIC DISASTER. 675
Senator Smith. The fifth officer ? Was it Lowe or Moody ?
Mr. Evans. I think it was the fifth officer; the fifth or sixth offi-
cer. He told me to go down and find the carpenter and sound all
the wells forward, and report to the bridge. 1 went down the en-
gineer's alleyway to find nim, and I met the boatswain there, and
he said, "Who are you lookingfor, Evans ?" I said "The carpenter."
He said "He has gone up." He said "What is the matter?'^ I said
"I do not know. I thmk we have struck an iceberg." The boat-
swain went up, then. We went up and we looked down the forward
hatch, where the tarpaulin was raising up with the wind, and I seen
the boatswain again, and he told me to go down and tell the seamen
to come up and uncover the boats, and make them ready for going
out. I went up there with the remainder of the crew and uncovered
all of the port boats. I then went over to the starboard side and
lowered the boats there, with the assistance of the boatswain.
Senator Smith. What was the boatswain's name %
Mr. Evans. I forget his name, now, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you not think of it ?
Mr. Evans. I forjget the boatswain's name. We used to call him
Mick; we used to give him that nickname.
Senator Smith. Is he here ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; he was drowned, sir. He was the boatswain
of the ship. '
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Evans. We then lowered the starboard boats. After they had
been lowered I went over to the port side and seen my own boat with
the women and children being passed into it.
Senator Smith. What was the number of your boat ?
Mr. Evans. No. 12 was my proper boat, on the port side.
Senator Smith. Was No. 12 filled with women and children?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many were put into it %
Mr. Evans. I should say, on a rough average, there was about 50,
sir. There was one seaman standing in the stern sheets of it.
Senator Smith. Were there any other men in it?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I did not notice any other men in the boat.
She was swung out on the davits.
Senator Smith. And you did not notice any men ?
Mr. Evans. I could only see a seaman there.
Senator Smith. One seaman, or more?
Mr. Evans. One seaman; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That boat was lowered. Were there any male
passengers in there; any members of the crew, males?
Mr. Evans. I did not notice any. After we got them into that, I
sung out to the seaman: **''How many have you got in that boat?"
I said : " Ginger, how many have vou got ? " He said : "There is only
me here." ilowered that boat, sir, and she went away from the ship.
I then went next to No. 10, sir, to that boat, and the chief officer, Mr.
Murdock, was standing there, and I lowered the boat with the assist-
ance of a steward. Tne chief officer said, **What are you, Evans?"
I said *' A seaman, sir." He said, ^' All right; get into that boat with
the other seamen." He said, *'Get into that boat," and I got into the
bows of this boat, and a young ship's baker was getting the children
and chucking them into tne boat, and the women were jumping. Mr.
Murdock made them jump across into the boat.
676 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. How far ?
Mr. Evans. It was about two feet and a half, sir. He was making
the women lump across, and the children he was chucking across,
along with tnis oaker. He throwed them onto the women, and he
was catching the children by their dresses and chucking them in.
Senator Smith. Were any children thrown overboard or any women ?
Mr. Evans. One woman slipped and fell. Her heel must have
caught on the rail of the deck, and she fell down and some one on the
deck below caught her and pulled her up. Her heel caught in the
rail, I think, as she was jumping, and they pulled her in onto the next
deck. She was a woman in a olack dress.
Senator Smith. Do you know who she was ? Did you ever see her
afterwards ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; she came up onto the boat deck again, and then
jumped again, and she came into the boat that time all right.
Senator Smith. Into your boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; into No. 10 boat.
Senator Smith. Who was she ?
Mr. Evans. I could not distinguish her at all in the boat, and I
never took no more notice of her.
Senator Smith. We are talking about the No. 10 boat — the one
that you were in.
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many people were put into that boat with
you?
Mr. Evans. There were about 60 persons, women and cliildren.
Senator Smith. How many women?
Mr. Evans. I should say about 57, sir. There were only me and
another seaman and a steward, and two men besides.
Senator Smith. And how manv children?
Mr. Evans. Seven or eight chfldren, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men besides yourself ?
Mr. Evans. I think there were one or two; there was me and
anotlier seaman and a steward, and two men.
Senator Smith. Who were these men ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know, sir. I think one was a foreigner that
was up forward.
Senator Smith. A passenger?,,
Mr. Evans. Yes; he was a passenger. The chief officer, Murdock,
had cleared all the women and cliildren from that side of the ship,
and he asked if there was any more, and there was no reply came,
and the boat was packed, sir, and as this boat was being lowered Uiis
foreigner must have jumped from A deck into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did he catch something and throw himself into
the boat ?
Mr. Evans. No; he just deliberately jumped across into the boat.
Senator Smith. And saved himself?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. W^hat occurred then; was it lowered ?
Mr. Evans. It was lowered.
S?nator Smith. To the water?
Mr. Evans. Yes; to the water.
Senator Smith. If I understand you correctly, Murdock, who was
chief officer, loaded that boat by having the women jump from the
boat deck into the lifeboat ?
te 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 677
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. A distance of how much ?
Mr. Evans. About 2\ or 3 feet.
Senator Smith. In order to get tliem in there ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did the women hesitate about getting in ?
Mr. Evans. One or two women did, sir; but he compefled them to
jump. He told tliem that they must.
Senator Smith. Did any women refuse to jump?
Mr. Evans. One or two women refused, in the first place, to jump;
but after he told them, they finally went.
Senator Smith. When you got to the water, what did you do ?
Mr. Evans. We unhooked the falls, sir. It was impossible to get
to the tripper, on account of the women being packed so tightly.
It was impossible to get to the tripper underneath the thwart.
Senator Smith. What was done tnen ?
Mr. Evans. We had to lift the fall up off the hook to release the
spring, to get the block and fall away from it.
Senator Smith. And then what did you do ?
Mr. Evans. We unhooked it by hand.
Senator Smith. Then what did you do ?
Mr. Evans. We pushed off from the ship and rowed away.
Senator Smith. How far away ?
Mr. Evans. About 200 yards.
Senator SMrrn. What did you do then ?
Mr. Evans. We went over to where there were three more boats,
and we tied up to them.
Senator Smith. Do you know which lifeboats you tied up to ?
Mr. Evans. There was No. 12.
Senator Smfth. Your boat ?
Mr. Evans. I was in No. 10, then.
Senator Smith. Yes, I understand; but No. 12 was your own boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, she was my original boat. That was my station.
Senator Smith. What were the numbers of the other boats ?
Mr. Evans. I was in No. 10, and we tied up to No. 12. We gave
the man our painter and made fast, and we stopped there.
Senator Smith. How long did you stop there ?
Mr. Evans. We stopped there about an hour, I think it was, sir,
when No. 14 boat came over with one officer.
Senator Smfth. What officer ?
Mr. Evans. The fifth officer, I think it was.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe; No. 14 boat?
Mr. Evans. No. 14 boat. He came over in No. 14 boat, and he
says, "Are there any seamen there?'' We said, "Yes, sir." He
said, "All right; you will have to distribute these passengers among
these boats. Tie them all together and come into my boat,'' he said,
" to go over into the wreckage and pick up anyone that is alive there."
So we ffot into his boat and went straight over toward the wreckage.
We picKed up four men there, sir; alive.
Senator Smith. When you went over toward the wreckage, how
many people were in your boat ?
Mr. Evans. Eight or nine, sir. ''
Senator Smcth. And you picked up how many ?
Mr. E.VANS. We picked up four persons alive.
678 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Any dead ?
Mr. Evans. One died on the way back, sir. There were plenty of
dead bodies about us.
Senator Smith. How many ? Scores of them ?
Mr. Evans. You couldn't hardly count them, sir. I was afraid to
look over the sides because it might break my nerves down.
Senator Smith. Did these bodies have Ufe preservers on ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; from here upward [indicating] they were clear
of the water. They were like that [indicating]. They simply had
perished, sir.
Senator Smith, The boat that came to you was under sail ?
Mr. Evans. After we left the wreckage we made sail to another
boat that was in distress, farther over.
Senator Smith. That was Lowe's boat, was it not ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. When you picked up these four men, that left you
13 people in your boat?
Mr. Evans. Thirteen; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see other people in the water, or hear
their cries ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; none whatsoevei, sir, other than these four
persons we picked up.
Senator Smith. Did you not hear the cries of anyone in distress ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. For help ?
Mr. Evans. In the first place, when the ship sank I was in No. 10
boat, then, sir.
Senator Smith. When the ship sank you heard these cries ?
Mr. Evans. We heard these cries, but we took them to be the boats
that went away from the starboard side of the sliip; that they were
cheering one another, sir.
Senator Smith. Giving them encouragement ?
Mr. Evans. Giving them encouragement, sir.
Senator Smith. When you went back toward the wreckage the
Titanic had been sunk how long?
Mr. Evans. It must have been about an hour and a half, I should
think.
Senator Smith. And you laid by, about 200 yards off, for an hour
and a half ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. And then pulled over toward the place where she
sank ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; that was in No. 14 boat, sir, with the officer.
Senator Smith. And you picked up four people ?
Mr. Evans. Four people, sir.
Senator Smith. One of whom died ?
Mr. Evans. One died; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the way to the Carpathiaf
Mr. Evans. He died in the boat, sir.
Senator Smith. One of whom died in the boat 1
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was that Mr. Hoyt ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say. He was a very stout man.
Senator Smith. A large man ?
Mr. Evans. A large, fleshy man.
<t »*».«^*..^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTEB* 679
Senator Smith. He was a large, fleshy man, and you had great
trouble in getting him into the boat ?
Mr. Eyans. We had great trouble in getting him into the boat.
Senator Smith. And you had to unfasten his collar to give him a
chance to breathe ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Why did you not go over toward the wreck quicker t
Mr. Evans. In No. 14 boat or in No. 10 boat, sir?
Senator Smith. In No. 14 boat.
Mr. Evans. The officer was in command of that boat then, sir.
Senator Smith. And he did not care to go over ?
Mr. Evans. That I could not say, sir.
Senator Sboth. He did not order you to go over ?
Mr. Evans. He wanted as full a crew as he could get, to go over
there quicker.
Senator Smith. He got the crew as soon as he got alongside of you ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; he got alongside of these boats and got rid of his
passengers. We never saw him before that, so that I do not know
what he did.
Senator Smith. How many men did he have in his crew ?
Mr. Evans. In his"crew in No. 14 boat, sir ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Evans. Eight or nine, sir. There were stewards and firemen.
Senator Smith, He had eight or nine when you went back to the
wreck ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. But how many did he have in his crew when you
first saw No. 14 boat?
Mr. Evans. I could not say, sir. I could not tell you that, sir.
I never took the trouble to count them.
Senator Smith. Did he use his revolver any, going over there ?
Mr. Evans. The fifth officer used one, sir.
Senator Smith. Where ?
Mr. Evans. He fired four shots when we went to this boat that was
in distress. She was half full of water, and they were up to their
ankles in water. There was one collapsible boat that we had in tow,
and we went over to this one that was swamped, sir. Three dead
Eersons were left there, besides our taking two other people into our
oat, and one woman.
Senator Smith. I did not understand you to say that any women
were taken off of this boat — the collapsible boat.
Mr. Evans. The second officer was on the collapsible boat. We
had a collapsible boat in tow, sir. Then we went over to this other
collapsible that was swamped. There was one woman in it, and I
should say there were about 10 or a dozen men, and 3 dead bodies
were lying across the thwarts in the stern sheets.
Senator Smith. As I understand 3^ou, that boat was taking in
water ?
Mr. Evans. The collapsible boat ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And capsizing ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; sne was swamped. She was up out of the
water, but she was swamped.
Senator Smith. The people were taken out of that boat ?
680 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Evans. Into our boat.
Senator Smith. Into your boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Including one woman, and all the balance were
men?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; the remainder of them were men.
Senator Smith. Were those men seamen ?
• Mr. Evans. No, sir; I never saw any seamen there. There were
firemen and passengers.
Senator Smith. Firemen and passengers ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many passengers were there ?
Mr. Evans. There were one or two firemen I recognized, and some
of them mi^ht have been firemen, and I did not know them, sir.
Senator Smith. Would you say the largest proportion of those in
that boat which was swamped were passengers, or members of the
crew of the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. The majority of them were passengers.
Senator Smith. How many were passengers ; half of them ?
Mr. Evans. About eight of the dozen, I should think, sir, and this
one woman.
Senator Smith. I do not think I have yet got the number of that
swamped boat. Do you know what the number of it was 1
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. It was a collapsible boat, but what was the number
of it?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I could not give you the number of it.
Senator SMrrn. After you took these lour people into boat No. 14
from the water, what did you do?
Mr. Evans. I had a thorough good look around everywhere in the
wreckage.
Senator Smfth. To see if you could see any life?
Mr. Evans. To see if I could see anv live ones — anv live bodies.
Senator Smith. Did you see any alive?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. A good many dead ?
^'^r. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see any women dead in the water ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; mostly men.
Senator Smith. Was it daylight at this time?
Mr. Evans. Just breaking daylight.
Senator Smith. Did you nave a lamp in your boat ?
^ir. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there a lamp in boat No. 14 ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or a lamp in No. 10 boat?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When you found there were no live persons whom
you could rescue, why did you not take some of the deact ones aboard ?
1 ou had lots of room.
Mr. Evans. That lav with the officer.
Senator Smith. And what did he say about it ?
Mr. Evans. He did not pass any remark at all, sir. He said,
"Have a good look around, and see if vou can see anybody alive,
atall.'^
t( .«»^.^ ^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 681
Senator Smith. And when you did find anybody alive, what did the
officer say ?
Mr. Evans. The officer said, '^ Hoist the sail forward.'^ I did so,
and made sail.
Senator Smith. Hoist the sail forward ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; on the foremast; and we altered the course into
the direction of this collapsible boat which had been swamped. On
the way down we picked up another collapsible that had some women
and cmldren in it, and took her in tow, and then we sailed to this
sinking boat.
Senator Smith. What did you go out to the sinking boat for?
There was nobody on it ?
Mr. Evans. It was a boat that was swamped.
Senator Smith. Yes; but you had taken the people off of that
before.
Mr. Evans. No; we took this other boat in tow before we went to
the boat that was swamped. We picked her up on our way down
toward the boat that was swamped.
Senator Smith. This boat that was swamped you went to after
you had been around the wreck?
Mr. Evans. Yes; we came from the wreck direct in the direction of
this boat that was swamped.
Senator Smith. Then vou took those people ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; off that boat, into ours.
Senator Smith. And let the collapsible drift?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many people did you find in that swamped
boat?
Mr. Evans. There were about 4 of them and this 1 woman.
There were about 12 men and 1 woman.
Senator Smith. That made about 25 people, including the one
who died ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you take off of the swamped boat the dead
bodies ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; we left them there.
Senator Smith. You left them there to drift ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; three of them that were dead.
Senator Smith. Were those dead people passengers ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say, sir. They were lying right over the
thwarts, like that [indicating].
Senator Smith. Did you know any of them ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you look at them ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir, I did not particularly look at them. I was
assisting the other passengers off.
Senator Smith. Evidently you do not like to look at dead people
verv w^ell.
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that one of the reasons why you did not pick up
more of these dead people that were floating around there ?
Mr. Evans. If the officer had given orders to pick them up, we
should have picked them up.
Senator Smith. But he gave no orders ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
t< ^^^ 9 9
682 TITANIC DISA5TEB.
Senator Smith. There was a lot §jf cork floating around on the
water. Did you see any of it ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After you got those people out of that swamped
boat it was daylight?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you sighted the Carpathia coming?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you rgw toward her?
Mr. Evans. We did not row toward her; we made sail.
Senator Smith. You laid down your oars i
Mr. Evans. Laid down our oars and hoisted sail to make more
speed, to get rid of these passengers, to get them aboard as soon as
possible. .
Senator Smith. So thafl you went out with sail ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. To the Carpathia ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; under sail to the Carpathia, with the collapsible
boat in tow. One of the lac^^es there passed over a flash of whisky to
the people who were all wet through. She asked if anybody needed
the spirits, and these people were all soaking wet and nearly perished,
and they passed it around between these men and women.
Senator Smith. Who took it ?
Mr. Evans. Thev gave a woman the first drink. After that the
men passengers, who were wet through.
Senator Smith. Do you know the Quartermaster, Hichens?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I have never Ibeen in conversation with him.
Senator Smith. Do you yourself know him by sight?
Mr. Evans. I know him by sight.
Senator Smith. Was he in that collapsible boat ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did it take you after you sighted the
Carpathia to get alongside of her ?
Mr. Evans. About 20 minutes, sir.
Senator Smith. During the time that you lay off from the wreck,
and during the time that you cruised around the wreck, around the
place of the disaster, and while you were sailing out to the Carpathia,
did you see any icebergs ?
Mr. Evans, i es.
Senator Smith. Many ?
Mr. Evans. Five or six, I should think, sir.
Senator Smith. How big ?
Mr. Evans. Some were tremendous icebergs.
Senator Smith. How big; as big as the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. I should say about the height of that, sir.
Senator Smith. And there were quite a number of them ?
Mr. Evans. Yes- guite a number of icebergs.
Senator Smith. Did you see any growlersl
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any field ice ?
Mr. Evans. I saw the field ice after we got on the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. A great deal of it ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; at a rough estimate there was about a 21-
mile floe, sir.
it ,^».^,*^ yf
TITANIC DISAfiTEB. 683
Senator Smith. A 21-inile flo«?
Mr. Evans. Yes; floating ice; flat like the floor.
Senator Smith. What did you do after you got aboard the Car-
paihiaf Did you get all these people aboard ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; we got all these people aboard. ^
Senator Smith. Did you get all the dead people aboard ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; we got all the passengers aboard as soon as we
could.
Senator Smith. Then what did you db ?
Mr. Evans. I made fast the boat. I picked up a big satchel that
was in the bottom of the boat, and I threw it up to the master-at-arms
of the Carpathiaf and then we went on the boat deck of the Carpaihia
and got orders to hoist our boat.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain iiiat night?
Mr- Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Wliere ?
Mr. Evans. He came to the starboard action boat that I was
lowering, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say, if anything ?
Mr. Evans. He passed some remark to a tall miUtary gentleman
there with white spats on, but what it was I could not sav, as I was
attending to the fall; it was a tall mihtary-looking gentleman who
was giving orders as to lowering away forward or aft or both together.
As soon as we lowered the starboard action boat to the next deck the
giipes of the boat caught and we had to cut them with an axe.
^nator Smith. What happened to that ?
Mr. Evans. We had to cut it away.
Senator Smith. Did it get caught in the gear ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; the gripes we use in the lowering of the boat; it
caught up underneath, or else it had not been untied. I could not
look at it, because it was holding it in.
Senator Smith. It was chopped away with an axe ?
Mr. Evans. Chopped away with an axe, sir.
Senator Smith. Then what happened to it ?
Mr. Evans. It was lowered rigiit down to the water.
Senator Smith. It was lowered, then, to the water's edge ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was it filled with people ?
Mr. Evans. It was not on the boat deck, not when I first lowered
it. Whether any passengers dropped in underneatli I could not
say.
Senator Smith. You mean that this No. 1 boat that was caught was
not filled at the boat deck ?
Mr. Evans. Some ladies were passed into it on the boat deck, but
very few.
Senator Smith. How many?
Mr. Evans. I could not say.
Senator Smith. About how man}^ ?
Mr. Evans. I should say five or six.
Senator Smith. And then it was lowered ?
Mr. Evans. Then it was lowered to the next deck.
Senator SMrrn. To A deck?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. And at A deck what happened ?
a . « ^ f>
684 TITANIC DISA8TEB.
Mr. Evans. I could not tell you, because I could not see.
Senator Smith. Whether anybody got in there or not you do not
know ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say.
Senator Smith. Did you see it in the water?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see it after that time ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you sec any men in it at all ?
Mr. Evans. I saw the able seaman, Symons; I think his name is
Symons. Yes, it is S3Tnons.
• Senator Smith. The lookout ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; the lookout man.
Senator Smith. You saw him in it^
Mr. Evans. I saw him in the boat. There were some more men.
There were five in it, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men ?
Mr. Evans. Three, I think, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that all there were in it ?
Mr. Evans. That is all I could see, sir.
Senator Smith. But what became of that boat you do not know ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Symons survive ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is he here ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. This No. 1 boat was the emergency boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. On which side ?
Mr. Evans. On the starboard side. There is one on each side.
Senator Smith. This was on the starboard side ?
Mr. Evans. On the starboard side; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It always hangs ready for any emergency? It
always hangs ready in the davits, swung out ?
Mr. Evans. It is alreadv swung out, sir.
Senator Smith. All read.y for lowering ?
Mr. Evans. All you have to do is to take hold of the grips and
lower away the boat.
Senator Smith. When you saw it last it only had eight or nine
people in it ?
\ir. Evans. It only had eight or nine people in it.
Senator Smith. How many would it hold f
Mr. Evans. I should think, on an average, of near about 36, sir:
35 or 40.
Senator Smith. No. 12, your boat, and No. 10 and No. 14, in which
you escaped, were all large boats?
Mr. Evans. The largest-sized boats.
Senator Smith. The largest sized lifeboats ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many will a lifeboat of that kind hold, safely I
Mr. Evans. A large one, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mi\ Evans. It will probably hold 60, I should say, sir.
it .««».^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 685
Senator Smith. Would it be perfectly safe to lower a lai^e boat
like that, with new tackle and davits, and everything in good con-
dition, with 60 people in it ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many would it hold on the water if the water
was smooth?
Mr. Evans. You could not get more than 60 into the boat. My
boat, No. 10. was literally packed, without anj room to move, at
all. We could not get to this tripper at the time, with 60 persons
in it, or anywhere near it.
Senator Smith. Do you wish to be understood as saying that a
large lifeboat like No. 14 or No. 12 or No, 10 could be filled to its full
capacity and lowered to the water with safety ?
Air. Evans. Yes; because we did it then, sir.
Senator Smith. That is a pretty good answer.
Mr. Evans. It was my first experience in seeing a boat loaded
like that, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it your first experience with a wreck?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
At 11.45 o'clock p. m. the taking. of testimony before Senator
Smith was adjourned.
40475— Ap. pt. 7—12 3
" TIT^A^nsriC " IDZS^A^STEH
^^ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PtfRBUANT TO
S. RES. 283
' • ' • I .>
' • i .1 1
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK "
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC*
PART 8
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
QOYERNMBNT FEINTING OFFICE
19ia
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unitbd Statbs Sbnatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman,
OBOROB C. PERKINS, Cftliforaia. F. M. SIMMONS, North CaroUna.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oregon. FRANCIS Q. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER. Florida.
W. M. McKmsTKT, Clerk,
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Pice.
Evans, Cyril Funnstone 701
Evans, FVank Oliver 717
Franklin, P. A. S 656
G 11 1 , E meet 678
Lord, Capt. Stanley 682
m
^^ TITANIC^' DISASTER.
FRIDAY, APRIL 26, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commebce,
United States Senate,
New YorlCf N, Y.
The subcommittee met at 10.55 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Xewlands, and Fletcher.
Senator Newlands. Mr. Chairman, before we proceed I wish to
state that when the various members of the crew were apportioned
aiuong the members of the subcommittee yesterday, witn a view
to their examinationi I was approached by newspaper men regard-
ing the report of the hearings. 1 told them the nearings would be
executive, the testimony would be reported this morning, and that
it would be necessary for them to attend. In order to fortify myself,
I communicated with the other members of the subcommittee,
with a view to having a general understanding upon the subject.
I find that in the morning papers the statements of some of these
witnesses appear, and I regret very much there was a misunder-
standing, and wish to say to the newspaper men to whom I made
that statement that I do regret the misunderstanding. It seems to
have been an inadvertence, the cause of which I do not understand.
Senator Smith. I desire to say for my associates that we have taken
the testimony of John Hard}-, cliief steward, second class; William
Ward, saloon steward; James Widgery, second class, in charge of bath
on F deck forward; and Edward John Buley, able seaman. This tes-
timony was taken by Senator Fletcher. It has all been taken under
oath and will be treated as a part of the official record.
Senator Bourne took the testimonv under oath of George Frederick
Crowe, steward; C. D. Andrews, officers* steward; and John Collins,
assistant cook.
Senator Newlands took under oath the testimony of Edward
Wheelton, first-class steward; W. H. Taylor, fireman; ueorge Moore,
able seaman; and Thomas Jones, seaman.
The same process was followed, under oath, by myself, and I exam-
ined last nignt Haynes, Hemming, and Evans. That testimony will
be included as a part of the permanent record, and is accessible, as all
other testimony, to the public.
I have, however, five of the crew whom I was unable to examine
last night because of the lateness of the hour, and these men will be
examined either in public session to-da}' or by the same arrangement
that was followed last night. So far as the work of Senator rerkins
and Senator Burton is concerned, they did not take the testimony of
their witnesses under oath, and in all probability will desire to reexam-
ine them or submit their statements to the committee, who will pass
upon their importance.
655
656 TITANIC DISASTER.
I might add that by arrangement of the subcommittee all state-
ments and testimony taken after the close of the public session
yesterday were to be treated as executive until the next open session
of the subcommittee, which would have been this mommg, and so
far as I know, none of the members of the subcommittee gave out
any statement or statements containing this testimony.
I desire to have Mr. Franklin take the stand for a moment.
ADDITIOVAL TESTIMOITT OF MK. P. A. S. FRASKUN, VICE
PBESIDEHT nrTERNATIOBTAL MEBCA17TILE MABINE CO.
*
Senator Smith. Before examining Mr. Franklin, I would like to
have the record show that everything that transpires in connection
with this inquiry is public^ and no attempt whatever to suppress any
part of the testimony, or the circumstances surrounding it, will be
made.
I had subpoenaed the captain and wireless operator of the steam-
ship (Miforniartj supposed to have given ample warning to the
Titanic oi its proximity to ice the day of the disaster. I received from
Boston the following telegram, addressed to the sergeant at arms^
dated April 25, 1912:
Boston, Mass., April ^5, 191 1.
D. M. Ransdell,
Sergeant at ArmSf UniUd States Senate, Washington, D. C:
Your telegram matter steamship Cali/omian received 6 p. m. (apt. Stanley
Lord and Wireless Operator C. E. Evans duly subpoenaed with attested copy telegram
personally by me at 7 p. m. They express themselves willing to go but are not. 10
p. m., prevented from going by \vTiite Star officials. Believe they have important
] nf ormation . Please ad vise me further, and will bring them to Washington if necessar>' .
Guy Murchib,
United States Marshal.
When this message was received, I was called up over the telephone
by Col. Ransdell, sergeant at arms, and told of this message, and
promptly gave the sergeant at anns authority to demand the presence
of the captain and wireless operator of the Cali/omian. This has
been done, and in order that no misapprehensions may arise, or false
reports be circulated, which will in any way reflect upon the oflicers
of the Califomian or the officers of any company, 1 desire to ask
Mr. Franklin, vice president of the International Mercantile Marine
Co., controlling the White Star Line, whether he knows anything
about this matter.
Mr. Fkaxklin. I can tell you all I know about it. About 8.30, or
possibly a quarter of 9, yesterday evening, I received a telephone call
from Boston, and Mr. John II. Thomas, our representative m Boston,
said that the captain of the Califomian and tne Marconi operator of
the Califomian had both been subpoenaed to come to Washington,
and asked whether, considering the steamer was sailing, as I remem-
ber, on Saturday — although in my mind it was scheduled to sail on
Friday, that being her regular day — we could not arrange, being here
on the spot, to have their depositions taken in Boston rather than
compel tnese men to come all the way to Washington, with the risk
of not getting back in time to have the steamer sail. I told him
that I would call up Senator Smith, the chairman of the committee,
and ask if this could possibly be arranged, and would call up Boston
just as quickly as I could get a reply. I called up the Senate Office
ii -....^.^ »»
UTANIO '' DIBASTHB. 657
Building at once; and I could not reach Senator Smith immediatdy.
I called up later; and I had a conversationwith Senator Smith's secre^
tary, who advised me that he had had a memorandum passed in to
Senator Smith, and the reply was that the men would have to com6
to Washington, that their depositions could not be taken, and that
the Senator understood that the men would have time to get dowm
here so that their statements might be properly taken by the com-
mittee, and they would be allowed to return to Boston m time for
the departure oi their steamer. I immediately called Boston on the
telephone, got Mr. Thomas, told him that the men must come along
at once, that I hoped they could without doubt catch the midnight
train getting here about 1 o'clock this afternoon, and that we would
do everything possible to persuade the committee to take their testi-
mony this afternoon and allow them to return to-night.
I could not say exactly what time that telephone message was sent,
but I should say it was about half past nine or a quarter to ten; so
that, so far as we were concerned, there was no effort or anxietyjor
anything of that kind on our part to avoid having their testimony
taKen. We were only anxious to arrange to have it done in Boston,
if the committee could see their way clear to do it.
Senator Smith. Is the steamship Califomian part of your line I
Mr. Feanklin. The steamship is owned by the Leyland Line, and
the great majority of the common shares and the majority of the pre-
ferred shares of tfie Leyland Line are owned in our various companies,
with the result that tne Leyland steamers are all consigned to our
oilice in Boston, and we are their agents there.
I would like to say, further, that if you would Uke the Boston
office called on the telephone, I can have that done, and find out just
when the men left, as 1 am sure they are on their way.
Senator Smith. I know when they left, and that will be unnecessary.
In this telephone message was anything said, about the log of the
ship?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir. I can say this, that I asked Mr. Thomas
to see that the men brought with them all the documents, charts, and
so forth, that they might need in giving their testimony; anything
that they could think of that they might need.
Senator Smith. My telegram to the marshal asked for the log.
Mr, Franklin. Then there is no doubt that it will be brought.
Senator Smith. I have forgotten if you stated, and so I wfll ask
you, how long you have been an officer of the International Mer-
cantile Co. ?
Mr. Franklin. Since the early part — about the spring — of 1903.
Senator Smith. And were you prior to that time connected with
any of its constituent companies ?
Mr. Franklin. I had been; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What company ?
Mr. Franklin. The Atlantic Transport Co.
Senator Smith. What ships were a part of the Atlantic Transport
Co.?
Mr. Franklin. At that time the Minnehaha, Uie Minneapolis, the
Minnetonka, the Mesaha; all sliips with names beginning witli ^^M."
Senator Smith. Do you know whether or not a vessel of the Wliite
Star Line was lost in practically the same longitude and latitudo
S56 '/ TixAiffiG ^' imAaTEsL.
where the Titanic was lost in the north Atlantic, witii all its crew,
alxyut 1 0 years ago ?
" Mr. Franklin. I suppose ^oxi are referring to th>e steamship
NaroniCy but my recollection is that tiiat ship was lost about 1897
or i8&8, or along there.
Senator Smith. Where was it lost ?
' Mr. Franklin. I have not the slightest idea.
Senator Smith. Would anyone connected with your company be
able to give us that information ? '
: Mr. Franklin. I do not think that anvbody would be able to give
Jou the information, because my recollection is that the ship was
ever heard of from the time she left port. lam not positive about
that, but that is my recollection!
Senator Smith. No one ever heard from herr
Mr. Franklin. I think not.
Senator Smith. Can you ascertain for me, without too much trouble
who were the owners of the Naronic; whether it was a part of the
White Star Line ?
Mr. Franklin. Do you mean that you would like me to submit
some definite proof on that 1
Senator Smith. Give me some definite infoi-mation about it.
Mr. Franklin. Now?
Senator Smith. No : but at your convenience.
Mr. Franklin. It was owned by the Oceanic Steam Navigation
Co., to the best of mv knowledge and belief.
Senator Smith. Was the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. connected
in any way with what is now the White Star line ?
Mr. Franklin. It is the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. that owns
the Wliite Star line.
Senator Smith. You gave the full capitalisation of the Interna-
tional Mercantile Marine Co. when you were on the stand, but I think
I failed to ask you if you knew whether that entire capitalization was
full paid?
Mr. Franklin. The entire capitalization that I mentioned was
issued for value received, but it is not the entire capitalization of the
company. The authorized capitalization is $60,000,000 of common
stock and $60,000,000 of preferred stock. I testified that about
$100,000,000, between the common and preferred, practically equally
diviaed, was outstanding. The balance in in the treasury. That
was all issued for value received.
Senator Smith. And the bonds are the underlying obligations of
that company ?
Mr. Franklin. I gave you a description of three classes of bonds;
first, the 4^ per cent collateral trust oonds, which have been issucni
to the public to the extent of $52,000,000, or abdut $52,000,000, as
close as I can remember; then the 5 per cent bonds, which are a first
mortgage on certain specified steamers and i>ropert(es: about
$19,000,000 of those. And then there are underhong bonds of the
subsidiary companies that are expiring from time to time. For
the information of the committee, and to have it as a matter of
record, I would be very glad to furnish our report for 1911, which
would be the latest official document issued by the company regarding
its capitaUzation and assets, and so forth.
t( ..»..« ^ ##
TITANIC DISA9TEB. 669
Senator Smith. That is, that would include the report of the
International Marine Co., the parent company ?
Mr. Fraj<«ki.in. That is their report.
Senator Smith. And would emorace the salient features of the
constituent companies ?
>Ir. Franklin. The various ramifications.
Senator Smith. And wouldgive a full list of its officers and directors.
And could we obtain from that report, or in any other way, a list
of its stockholders ?
Mr. Franklin. That report would not show a Ust of its stock-
holders.
Senator Smith. Could that be obtained ? j
Mr. Franklin. The shares are voting trust certifieates; but we
might be able to obtain the names of the holders of as many of them
as we have on record.
Senator Smith. I assume that the stockholders arc scattered in
almost every part of the world ?
Mr. Franklin. They are scattered all over the world, yes. As I
have told you, there is about $100,000,000 of stock outstanding.
Senator Smith. Would it be practical for you to furnish the com-
mittee with a list of the British stockholders and the American
stockholders ?
Mr. Franklin. All I can say is that we would be glad to furnish to
the committee, as we promised you, anything in our possession.
Anything that we have that will give you any information regarding
the shareholders, we will be glad to furnish you.
Senator Smith. Well, I would like that information.
Mr. Franklin. If we can get it for you we will do so. The last
report we have issued is for 1910. •
Senator Smith. When is the next one due ?
Mr. Franklin. The next one is due in June of this year.
Senator Smith. Perhaps that might be more serviceable, in the way
of giving the officers ana the directors at the present time, than the
report of 1910.
Mr. Franklin. Our report for the year 1911 we will have ready
and issue some time in June.
. Senator Smith. I think we would like both of these reports, if agree-
able; and the last one, if possible.
Mr. Frankun. We can give you the 1910 report at once, but the
1911 report we can only give to you after we nave gotten it out-^
gotten it ready.
Senator Smith. You mean by "at once'' that you have it with you
now?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; the 1910 report.
Senator Smith. Produce it, if you have it. YoU may hie that with
the stenographer, and it may be marked for identification.
The Eight n Annual Report of the International Mercantile Marine
Co. was thereupon marked ''Exhibit A, April 26, 1912, testimony of
Mr. P. A. S. Franklin,'' and filed with the committee.
Senator Smith. Mr. Franklin, you were kind enough the other day
to furnish us with the telegrams and cabl^rams which nassed between
your company and the officers of the Titanic^ and tne oflicei-s and
passengers — which includes Mr. Ismay — on the Carpathia,
660 TITANIC DISASTER
Mr. Franklin. Not the Titanic, Senator.
Senator Smith. I asked you with reference to the Titanic.
Mr. Franbxin. We never received and never sent any message to
the Titanic that I know anything about.
Senator Smith. These messages that you have are, some of them,
over a code or cinher signature of the company. I would like to
ask vou whether tnere was any attempt made^ tiirough land or sea
wireless stations, to enjoin silence or secrecy on the part of any
officer or member of the crew, or passenger, on board the Carpathian
after the accident happened ?
Mr. Franklin. Not to the very best of my knowledge and belief;
absolutely, no.
Senator Smith. You gave the company's cipher signature in the
transmission of any messages, by wireless telegraph and cable, the
other day?
Mr. Franklin. I gave the company's signature. Generally speak-
ing, the cable address of the company, between officers, for cables
and long-distance messages of that kind, is '^Ismay.''
Senator Smith. Whetlier the communication be sent from this
country to the London office or aboard ship, or from the London
office or other British ship to a sliip or office nere, the same cipher is
employed ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not say ''yes'' to that, for this reason, that
we have a great many cable addresses. For instance, when the pas-
senger office at the Ijondon office or the Southampton office is sending
a cable purely on details of the passenger department, asking for
reservations of rooms, or something of that kind, we will use one cable
address, the result of which is that that cable, when received at the
office, will go immediately into the passenger office. If that office is
cabling about freight matters, they will use another cable address,
which will result in that cable going into the freight office. But if it
is a general cable on general busmess, as a rule the cable address
"Ismay" is used.
Senator Smith. What are the others used ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not tell them. We have a lot of them.
Senator Smith. Are they registered ?
Mr. Franklin. They are all registered with the cable companies.
Senator Smith. Ana with the telegraph companies ?
Mr. Franklin. The telegraph companies, as a rule, are practically
the cable companies; so they are witn the telegraph companies also.
Senator Smith. Have you a cipher for your own personal use ?
Mr. Franklin. If you mean Jby ''cipher" a cable address
Senator Smith (interposing). Code or cable address.
Mr. Franklin (continuing). If you mean a cable address for
cables exchanged between Mr. Ismay and myself, I have the word
"Islefrank."
Senator Smith. And that denotes yourself ?
Mr. Franklin. That denotes that the cable is for me.
Senator Smith. Did you receive or send on Sunday, tlie 14th of
April, or any succeeding day up to the time of the arrival of the Car-
pathia in New-York, any message to its officers, employees, or passen-
gers giving that signature ?
Mr. Franklin. On Sunday, no.
Senator Smith. What about Monday ?
a ....... ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 661
Mr. Franklin. No.
Senator Smith. On Tuesday ?
Mr. Franklin. No; and no other day.
Senator Smith. No other day up to that time ?
Mr. Franklin. No.
Senator Smith. And yoH received no message addressed to you in
that manner ?
Mr. Franklin. That is, I sent no message to any ship at sea, or any
place else, under the code address of **lslefrank.
Senator Smith. Did you send any to your London office under that
address ?
Mr. Franklin. To the London office I would never use it. I
would only use it to the Liverpool office.
Senator Smith. Did you use it to the I^iverpool office?
Mr. Franklin. Not to the best of my knowledge and beUef.
Senator Smith. Or to any other office of the company, anywhere?
Mr. Franklin. Not to the best of my knowledge and belief. In the
file of exliibits, or rather telegrams exchanged with Mr. Ismay, you
will probably find a message sent by Mr. Ismay after he got on the
Carpathia which did not reach us until Wednesday mommg, and I
think 3rou will find that addressed to '^Islefrank"; but that message,
as received, is in your possession.
Senator Smith. Is that the message you refer to [handing witness
tel^am] ?
mr, Franklin. Yes, sir; this is the one I mean. That is the one
St nt by Mr. Ismay. You see, that is the first message.
Senator Smith. There is another one there.
Mr. Franklin. But these were addressed; you asked me ''sent to.'^
Senator Smith. I asked you ''sent or received.*'
Mr. Franklin. I did not understand you to say received. These
are all addressed in that way.
Senator Smith. Sent or received ?
Mr. Franklin. Mr.- Ismay addressed that in that way. I said I
did not send any.
Senator Smith. Have vou filed with the committee all the messages
you received, addressedf to "Islefrank,** from the Carpathia, its
officers, crew, or passengers ?
Mr. Franklin. I have.
Senator Smith. From the day of the accident until its arrival in
New York ?
Mr. Franklin. I have.
Senator Smith. Wlio put the memorandum on that message in
lead pencil, "Received 9 a. m., 4-17-12*'?
Mr. Franklin. I did.
Senator Smith. That was Wednesday ?
Mr. Franklin. Wednesday morning, about 9.30.
Senator Smith. 9 a. m., you say here.
Mr. Franklin. 9 a. m., then.
Senator Smith. When did you receive the first tidings from the
Titanic disaster, and from whom did vou receive such tidings ?
Mr. Franklin. As I testified on Monday, at about 20 minutes of
2 on Monday morning I was aroused by the telephone and the door
bell, and was informed by a reporter, evidently of some paper, that
662 TITAKIC PI8ASTER.
they had heard this rumor or had this informatioii. Who that was
I can not tell you.
Senator Smith. But you had your first information from the
Carpathia or from Mr. Ismay, or from any other source that was
official or authentic, at what time ?
Mr. Franklin. I got my first information from any source that was
official or authentic from the captain of the Olympic, and a copy of his
message is filed with you, all of nis messages, to the best of my knowl-
edge and belief, being filed with you. They are not in that lot
[indicating].
Senator Smith. They are marked ''Haddock** ?
Mr. Franklin. '^Haddock."
Senator Smith. Is that the cablegram to which you refer [exhibit-
ing cablegram] ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; that is a cablegram that we sent to Liver-
pool. That is a copy of a message we sent to Liverpool.
Senator Smith. Find the message that came from Haddock.
Mr. Franklin. It is not here, sir. These are the cables between
Liverpool and ourselves.
Senator Smith. Have you that cablegram ?
Mr. Franklin. I have it here some place. Here is the first tde-
•am, to the best of my knowledge and belief, that I received from
[addock.
Senator Smith. Read it.
Mx. Franklin (reading) :
Via Halifax, Steamship *' Olympic,"
April IS, t9it.
Ibmay, New York:
Since midnight, when her position was 41.46 north, 50.14 west, have been unable to
communicate. We are now 310 miles from her, 9 a. m., under full power. Will inform
you at once if we hear anything.
Commander.
Senator Smith. What reply did you make to that ?
Mr. Franklin. The three messages that we dent to Capt. Haddock
that morning are as follows:
About 3 a. m., April 15, from 168 Gates Avenue, Brooklyn, by telephone: ''Haddock,
Olympic: Make every endeavor communicate Titanic and advise position and time.
Reply to Ismay, New York."
Senator Smith. That was sent from your house ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; this was telephoned by me to the manager
of our steamship department, Mr. Rodger, living in Brooklyn. I did
not want to leave my telephone or communicate with anybody except
the people in connection with the Titanic.
Senator Smith. That was 3 a. m., Monday morning?
Mr. Franklin. That was 3 a. m., Monday morning.
Senator SMrrn. After the accident?
Mr. Franklin. The next one was 6.05 a. m., the same day,
April 15:
Commander 'Olympic":
Keep us fully posted regarding Titanic.
The next one has no hour on it; no time. April 15:
pADDOCK, Olympic:
Can you ascertain extent damage Titanicf
^' TITANIC '' DI8A8TEB. 6ft3
Those are the tele^ams we sent to Capt. Haddock that morning.
Senator Smith. All of them ?
Mr. Franklin. All of them^ to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Senator Smith. Have you his replies ?
Mr. Franklin. I read you off tne first telegram. The next tele
gram we received from Capt. Haddock is as foUows:
Parisian reports Carpaihia in attendance, and picked up 20 boats of passengers, and
Baltic returning to give assistance; position not given.
Senator Smith. What time was that and what day?
Mr. Franklin. That was received April 15.
Senator Smith. Monday ?
Mr. Franklin. Mondav.
Senator Smith. What hour ?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of my knowledge and belief, it was
around about 1 o'clock; between 12 and 1. Do you want me to read
these ? They are all in the evidence verbatim.
Senator Smith. I wanted to make very sure that they contained
all the communications you had with Capt. Haddock, of the Olympic,
to him or from him.
Mr. Franklin. We have made every research, and as far as I can
find out in any way, or from recollection or anything else, they con-
tain every telegram we have exchanged witJi Capt. Haddock, from
the time of the disaster to date.
Senator Smith. And yet, as 1 understand you this morning, that is
the first authentic information you received of tjie sinking of the
Tiianicf
Mr. Franklin. The first and only authentic information we re-
ceived, not only of the sinking, but in connection with tlie Titanic
sinkings until we got Mr. Ismay's telegram on Wednesday morning^
which was to the same effect, of course.
Senator Smith. I want to read into the record from the iVnacond^
Standard, published at Anaconda, Mont., Monday morning, April 15,
1912, the following, headed —
"titanic'' strikes icebbro and is sinking.
Caps Rack, N^n/fmndlanri, April i5.— At 10.25 o'clock last night the steam^ip
Tilan ic called " S . O . S . ' * aiwl iv|)arted having struck an iceberg. The eteamer said that
immediate assistance was required. Half an hour afterwards an additional message
said they were sinking by the head and that women were being put off in the lifeboats.
Then I skip a few unimportant facts, and this follows:
The last signals from the Titanic were heard hy the Virginian at 1.37 a. m. The
operator on the Virginian aays these signals were blurred and ended abruptly.
Senator Smith. I simply quote this newspaper announcement
because it comes from the far We^t, and seems to give more informa-
tion of a definite character than you had in your possession at that
hoar.
Mr. Franklin. That is perfectly true, except that we had exactly
that same information from various telephone communications, and
Associated Press and other reports; but we had no authentic infor-
mation except what I am giving you in those telegrams.
Senator Smith. You said tiie other day that you had rumors-—
Mr. Franklin. Rumors and reports.
664 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Rumors of this character, which were called to
your attention by newspaper reporters and others that morning;
but that you had no authentic information of an official character
until the afternoon of Monday ?
Mr. Fbanklin. Until the afternoon, except the telegram wliich we
have just read from Capt. Haddock, which advised that he was pro-
ceeding. All of our telegrams and all of our information were given
at once to the press as received.
Senator Smith. At 6.15 a. m., Monday, this message was sent to
your Liverpool office [handing witness paper].
Mr. Franklin. Shall I read it?
Senator Smith. Please read it, giving the dat^ and to whom it is
addressed.
Mr. Franklin. April 15, sent at 6.15 a. m.:
IsHAY, Liverpool:
Newspaper wireless reports advise Titanic collision icebeig.
These are all code words.
Senator Smith. Give us the code words. Read the code words.
Mr. Franklin. I will just have to spell them out. The next
word is —
Iznak 41 .46 north. Joyam 50.14 west.
Women being put lifeboats; steamer Virainian expects reach Titanic 10 a. m. to-
day. Olympic Baltic proceeding Titanic. We have no direct information.
Senator Smith. Who sent that message ?
Mr. Franklin.- I sent that message mvself.
Senator Smith. How did you get the information that the Virginian
was going to the relief of the Titanic at 6.15 a. m. Monday %
Mr. Franklin. I had a telephone conversation with Montreal
about, I should say, half past 2 in the morning — between half past 2
and half past 3 — and I gathered from that, and also from other in-
formation that we were probably receiving from other sources, that
the Virginian was going tnere.
Senator SMrrn. That circumstance would reveal the fact that it
was rather an important matter, would it not?
Mr. Franklin. My understanding is that the Virginian got prac-
tically the first information passed ashore r^arding the Titanic,
Senator Smith. I understand that, Mr. FrankUn.
Mr. Franklin. And she proceeded at once.
Senator Smith. I want to know who got the first information in
your company. You said you received idle rumors that she had had
this accidfent. You considered it important enough to send to your
Liverpool office advices of that character at 6.15 Monday morning?
Mr. Franklin. Right, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you consider it of sufficient importance to in-
form the pubhc that this accident had occurred ?
Mr. Franklin. As a matter of fact, the newspapers were inforniing
me; the newspaper reporters were in our office the entire morning,
and we were giving them about every 15 or 20 minutes anything we
had received, any rumors of communications of various kmds;
and when our telegram came in from Capt. Haddock, we gave them
the contents of that. We gave the newspapers everything we had.
Senator Smith. I am not concerned about your giving out Capt.
Haddock's information. What I am concerned about is whether
(< 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 665
you considered that the information you had received from Montreal
about half past 2 Monday morning, and which was the basis of your
advices to your Liverpool offices, was of sufficient importance to nave
justified your announcement of the sources of your information to
the public at that time?
Mr. Franklin. I do not quite follow you, for this reason
Senator Smith. Read the question. 1 think I made it plain. I
do not want to be too searcning about it, but if it connects with
other things I have in my mind, I want it down.
Mr. Franklin. Quite right.
The reporter repeated the question as follows :
Senator Smith. I am not concerned about your giving out Capt. Haddock's informa-
tion. What I am concerned about is whether you considered that the information
you had received from Montreal about half past 2 Monday morning, and which waa
the basis of your advices to your Liverpool offices, was of sufficient importance to have
justified your announcement of the sources of your information to the public at that
time?
Mr. Franklin. The sources of my information at that time were
from the press, whose representatives were in our ofRce.
Senator Smith. One moment. Tlie sources of your information
were in Montreal. I would like to know what sources tliey were ?
Mr. Franklin. What we did was — we got Mr. Thom
Senator Smith (interposing). Who is ^fr. Thom?
Mr. Franklin. Mr. Thom is our agent at Montreal — on the tele-
phone, Mr. James Thom. We asked him to communicate with the
Allen Line representatives, if he could get anybody, and ask them
whether they had any information; that we had heard through the
newspapers that the Titanic was in serious trouble. Mr. Tliom, to
the best of my knowledge and belief, called up — it must have been
after 3 o'clock — and said he had gotten hold of somebody in the Allen
Line office and they had similar information. Therefore, when we
went to the office we told the reporters of the telephone conversation
with Montreal. I told them myself.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Franklin. I can not tell you exactly what time the reporters
got there, but they were there very early. It was between 5 and 6.
Senator Smith. What time would that be in London ?
Mr. Franklin. That would be in London five hours earlier.
Senator Smith. What would be the hour ?
Mr. Franklin. Five hours earlier.
Senator Smith. I ask you because you are testifying. I am not
testifying. If my question seems to reveal any inability to make any
deduction, I beg you to remember that I am not on oath. I want
your statement in the record.
Mr. Franklin. That would be between 12 and 1 o'clock in the
morning.
Senator Smith. Then your Liverpool office had this information,
all the information that you made public on Monday morning,
between 6 and 7 o'clock, or 5 and 6 o'clock, five hours in advance, and
from you, of its publication through you here ?
Mr. Franklin. Well, of course, the dLTerence in time — have I the
time wrong ?
Senator Smith. Five o^clock here would be 10 o'clock in London?
666 TITANIC " DIfiASTfiB.
Mr. Franklin. Yes; there is five hours dilerence in the time.
Now, if we understand each other, at 10 o'clock Monday morning
after this accident— —
Senator Pletcheb. Have you a translation of those code words ?
Mr. Franklin. I think we have.
Senator Fletcher. It would be better to put the translation in.
Mr. Franklin. We will ^ve a translation of each one of those
words. That is what we will do.
Senator Smith. You are satisfied that the answer you have now
made is correct ?
Mr. Franklin. No; we will have to correct that, because it is
five hours later instead of five hours earlier in I^ndon.
Senator Smith. What I want to show is this. Realizing we have
the sun five hours later than they have — that is correct ?
Mr. Franklin. That Ls right.
Senator Smith. I want to know what time the information you
communicated to your Liverpool office was received at Liverj)Ool.
1 know when it was sent from here. That is all I was trjdng to get at
about that feature. I tliink you have made it plain.
Mr. Franklin. I think we have made it j)laia, but of course I can
only tell you the time we filed the message here. Whether that mes-
sage w^ent off ])romptlv and rapidly I can not tell.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any confirmation of its receipt
at Liverpool ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any message from Liveri)ool that
indicated that they were amazed and horrified at this information
that you had given them ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you receive ?
Mr. Franklin. From Liverpool April 15 [referring to memo-
randum].
Senator Smith. Give the hour.
Mr. Franklin. I can not give you the hour unless I can get a copy
of tjie cable. Here are the cables we received from Liverpool. I will
try to get the cable itself, and got the hour.
Sensational press messages being received concerning Titonic. We have nothing
from her or yourselves'. Tek^rapn immediately.
That was the telegram. Then the next telegram was this-
Senator SMrrH. I want to fix the hour, and we will pause a moment
while your assistants find the hour.
Senator Fletcher. Was your cable sent in response to that or
before that ?
Mr. Franklin. Our cable was sent without having rec^ved this
at all.
Senator Smith. You gave them the information you liad from your
Montreal agent about four hours after you got it ?
Mr. Franklin. We did not say this information was from Mont-
real; we said ''reports.''
Senator Smith. I understand ; but you got this information from
your agent in Montreal about half past 2 o'clock in the morning %
Mr. Franklin. No; I said I called up Montreal about half past 2
in the morning. I had to disconnect, then, and wait until he called
i( , ^, 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 667
me, and when he called me up and I talked over the phone it must
have been half past 3.
Senator Smith. All right; we will take that liour. "i'ou got the
information from your Nfontreal agent at half past 3 Monday morning,
and you did not communicate wnth Liverpool or London until 6.15
o'clock Monday morning?
Mr. Franklin. That is right.
Senator Smith: Why did vou not communicate with them until
6.15 o'clock?
Mr. Franklin. As far as I was concerned, I was teleplioning in all
directions during that time, and then was getting down to the office.
Senator SMrrn. But here was a ship valued at about S7 ,000,000,
and filled with passengers, Britishers as well as Americans, and the
chief managing director of your company was aboard the sliip ?
Mr. Franklin. Right.
Senator Smith. Why did you not communicate what information
you had, so that they might receive it in the very early morning hours,
rather than wait until 10 o'clock?
Mr. Franklin. Because I was doing what I thouglit was best at the
time, to get the best possible information, and get to the office as soon
OS I could, so I could cable.
Senator Smith. I do not want you to infer that I am criticizing you,
but I am asking these questions for information.
Mr. Franklin. It was a question of expedic»ncy. I liad no idea of
sending a cable until I got to the office, and no means of doing so.
Senator Smith. But you did give your liverpool office the first
information that it had, and the first information you had ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir; and as quick as I could get to the office
and collect what information was drifting in from tlie telephone and
by Associated Press reports and otherwise.
Senator Smith. I take it you did not sleep very much Sunday
night after you got that telephone message from your agent in Mon-
treal?
Mr. Frankun. I spent the entire time, from 2.20 o'clock until I
left the house on the telephone, and then I went to the office; and then
I immediately, as promptly as we could, got off these cables and
other things.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, however, if that was the only
cable you sent to the London or Liverpool office, you held that infor-
mationyou did have about three hours before you let go of it?
Mr. Franklin. Well. I did not hold it in the sense of the word
Senator Smith. I did not mean suppressed it; no,
Mr. Franklin. I did not cable Liverpool until after we got to the
office, and got the offices opened and the people there to cable.
Senator omith. I have not seen any telegram from your London
office or Liverpool office asking particularly about the safety of pas-
sengers on the Titanic. Have I overlooked it ?
Mr. Franklin. They cabled here —
We have DOthing from here or youraelves. Telegraph immediately.
The object of that was to telegraph all the information we could
regarding everybody.
Senator Smfth. What time was that ?
4(M7&-PT a-12 2
<( ,.«.^.^**^ ff
668 TITANIO DISASTER.
Mr. Franklin. This message here shows that it was received at
20 Broad Street at 5.33 a. m.
Senator Smith. Then it was received at 20 Broad Street in New
York about an hour before you sent the information to Liverpool f
Mr. Franklin. Yes. But you must remember this, that until
we got down to the office and sent messages to each one of the cable
companies they would not deliver to us cables until a regularly ap-
pointed hour, which is about 8 o'clock. Our important cables, and
the cable addressed to me, might be delivered to our representative,
but it would not be delivered to the office, and no other cables would
be delivered to the office until about 8 or 8.30 o'clock, and what we
did is that we sent around to each cable and telegraph office that we
knew was open.
Senator Smith. Oo ahead.
Mr. Franklin. All that took a considerable amount of time.
Senator Smith. Now I will ask you, with no disposition whatever
to affront you, had you advised the cable offices in New York not to
deliver those messages to any one but yourself?
Mr. Franklin. Never.
Senator Smith. Had you advised them to whom they might de-
liver them ?
Mr. Franklin. Never. Cables and telegrams were coming in all
the time, from every source.
Senator Smith. But they were not coming in very fast until after
the cable company had a nght to deliver them at 8 o'clock ?
Mr. Franklin. Thev would not, because thev would not have
delivered them to us.
Senator Smith. You mean it is the custom of the cable office not
to deliver messages which they receive until a certain hour of the
morning ?
Mr. Franklin. I think if you will go to the cable management here
you will find that the messages for down-town people addressed to
cable addresses, which they know perfectly well what they are, are
not delivered until they think the offices will be open.
Senator Smith. Then important messages are held by the cable
company to suit the convenience of business men who may not desire
to be annoyed until they arrive at their offices ?
Mr. Franklin. I would not like to say that, Senator.
Senator Smith. That is the effect of it ?
Mr. Franklin. No; I do not think that is the effect of it.
Senator Smith. That was the effect of it on this morning, was it not ?
Mr. Franklin. Of course, so far as the cable companies are con-
cerned, they would be delivering messages at our office aU night if
th«y pursued a different policy.
Senator Smith. Oh, no; though I do not want to take issue with
you on that.
Mr. Franklin. The question is this. The cables are coming in from
all parts of the world at all hours.
Senator Smith. Are any of the officers or directors of the Interna-
tional Mercantile Marine Co., or any of its constituent companies, offi-
cers or directors of the cable company ?
Mr. Franklin. I am not sure. I think Mr. Waterbury is a director
of some of the telegraph companies and possibly of the cable company ;
but I am not sure.
ft ..»-.. «**^ 9f
TITANIO DISASTER. 669
Senator Smith. Any other officer or director of your company?
Mr. Franklin. Not that I know of.
Senator Smith. Mr. Morgan or Mr. Griscom ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not know, at all.
Senator Smith. Mr. Steele ?
Mr. Franklin. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Your answer refers to
Mr. Franklin. That is all the information I have.
Senator Smith. Your answer refers to the telegraph companies
\ well as the cable companies ?
Mr. Franklin. Quite.
Senator Smith. And does it refer to the wireless companies as
well as the telegraph and cable companies ?
Mr. Franklin. It does.
Senator SMrrH. Who is Mr. Waterbury ?
Mr. Franklin. Mr. John I. Waterbury is one of our directors.
He was president of the Manhattan Trust Co. until recently. He is
interested, I think, in some of the telegraph companies, but which
companies and how much I have not the sugfatest idea.
Senator Smith. Have you any idea how neavily he is interested
in your company ?
Mr. Franklin. No. sir.
Senator Smith. Wnat office does he fill with your company ?
Mr. Franklin. Director.
Senator Smith. Of the parent company ?
Mr. Franklin. The International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Smith. Any of the constituent companies ?
Mt. Franklin. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Ismay or any of his
associates in the business organization ^re officers or directors of the
cable, telegraph, or wireless companies ?
Mr. ii^ANKLiN. Not to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Senator SMrrH. Do you know whether Mr. Burlingham or Mr.
Kirlin \& an officer of the cable, telegraph, or wireless companies, or
whether they are counsel for any of tnose companies ?
Mr. Franklin. Not to my knowledge. But of course they are
here, and you can ask them.
Senator SMrrH. So far as your observations go, Mr. Franklin, you
want to be understood as saying there is no community of interest
of the senior company or its constituent companies, and tne telegraph,
cable, or wireless companies ?
Mr. Franklin. Afeolutely none; and we do not discriminate
between any interests at all, in our business.
Senator Smith. Have you ever given any directions to the cable
offices in New York that cable messages addressed to your company
or yourself shall not be delivered until 8 o'clock, or thereabouts, in
the morning ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not reply to you definitely on that.. It is
purely a routine matter. We have certain people, or a certain man,
set aside to receive communications during the night and on Sundays
and holidays. Just exactly what cable messages would go to him,
and what hour they would go to him, and when they would be de-
livered at the offices, and when the telegraph companies understand
they are to be delivered at the offices, I do not know; I am not pre-
670 TITANIC DISASTER.
pared to testify, but it is a mat^r of detail arrangement. We called
that man up that night and asked whether he had any information,
and he had nothing.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to call up Mr. Thorn, of
Montreal ?
Mr. Franklin. Because the report that I got over the telephone
was that this information had reached Hahfax and Montreal from
the steamship Virginian.
Knowing tnat the steamship Virginian^ s agents, or the heads of
the offices, lived in Montreal, and we having our own representatives
in Montreal, I thought I might get some authentic information more
quickly and directly by communicating with Montreal than in any
other way. That is the reason I called him up.
Senator Smith. I do not quite understand your answer to my ques-
tion as to how you happened to communicate with Mr. Thorn. I
will detail what 1 understand it to be, to see if I am correct.
You say you communicated with Mr. Thom at Montreal because
the steamer Virginian^ 8 officers lived in Montreal
Mr. Franklin (interrupting). Her owners live at Montreal.
Senator Smith. Her owners Uve at Montreal, and you telephoned
to Montreal about 2 oVlock Monday morning ?
Mr. Franklin. I would say it was after 2, Senator.
Senator Smith. After 2 o'clock Monday morning ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But at that time you had not received any com-
munication regarding the steamship Virginian? How did you know
at that time tnat the Virginian was related to this matter?
Mr. Franklin. The very first mess^e or communication that I
received was from the newspapers, and I then called up our dock and
tried to confirm, and then called up the Associated Press offices. All
these reports connected the Virginian with the rumor; that is, the
newspapers and Associated Press offices all connected the steamship
Virginian with the rumor that they had heard.
Senator Smith. I understand.
Senator Perkins. You testified yesterday that you telephoned
Montreal, and that the report that was given to you by the news-
papers was confirmed by Montreal.
Mr. Franklin. They said that, as far as they could find out, they
had the same information in Montreal. Whether our representative
was able to get anything absolutely authentic up there, any more
than we had, I am not prepared to state; but he confirmed my fear —
that is all there was to it — that the rumor was true.
I read into the record the other day that Associated Press report
that I had on my desk soon after I got to my office.
Senator Smith. Monday morning ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. I read that into the record, and I must have
handed the copy to the clerk in charge.
Senator Smith. While the chairman is looking through his papers,
let me ask you where the Virginian was then, if you can state %
Mr. Franklin. My recoUection is that the Virginian reported that
she was 170 miles from the scene of the disaster.
Senator Fletcher. Did you make an eifort to have the V%r^ni<}iin
follow up the information she had and go to the relief of the Titanic ?
(f -^^.«^,^ f>
TITANIC DISASTBE. 671
Mr. Fkanklin. Our information at that time was that the Vir^
ffinian was proceeding as rapidly as possible to the Titanic,
Senator Fletcher. Did you urge the owners of the Virginian to
have her do that ?
Mr. Franklin. Our report was that she was proceeding. We did
not urge the owners of the VirginiaUj but we urged our people in
Halifax to do their utmost to get in touch with the Parisian, which
we also heard was near the scene of the disaster, and also to keep us
advised of any information they had.
Senator Fletcher. Who are your people in Halifax %
Mr. Franklin. A. E. Jones & Co., of Halifax.
Senator Fletcher. How did you communicate with them %
Mr. Franklin. By telegram entirely.
Senator Fletcher. You urged them to have the Parisian to
keep
Mr. Franklin. To keep in touch with the Parisian^ to see if she
had some information about the matter.
Senator Fletcher. Did you get any information from Jones & C!o. I
Mr. Franklin. Nothing that was worth having.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any way you could?
Mr. Franklin. Here are our telegrams with Jones & Co. [indi-
cating]. There may be a copy of it. Here is one:
7 a. m. Keep us fully advised any information you get of Titanic. Doing our
utmost to get information.
Senator Fletcher. Those are the 15th?
Mr. Franklin. The morning of the 15th of April.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any way you could have reached the
Virginian through any wireless station that you could command ?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; because she was proceeding as rapidly as
she could to the Titanic.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know if the Virginian was in commu-
nication with the Carpathiat
Mr. Franklin. My recollection is that she was, but I jcould not
testify to that. She had the information. She was one of the first
ships that had the information.
Senator Fletcher. But the CarpatJiia was nearer the Titanic than
the Virginian?
Mr. Franklin. Oh, yes, the Carpathians captain testified he was
about 50 miles, it is my recollection, from the Titanic, and my under-
standing is that the Virginian was 170 miles from the Titanic,
We asked Hahfax at 7.45 in the morning:
Is there any Government boat or large seagoing tug available to proceed to the
Titanic if desired? Answer quickly.
We imderstood the others were going.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know the distance from Halifax to
where the Titanic sank ?
Mr. Franklin. Six hundred miles.
Senator Smith. Do you or the officers of your conapany have any
responsibility for the employment or direction of the wireless operators
on your boats or on your sliips ?
Mr. Franklin. I could not reply to that except in a general way;
that is, to tBe effect that I do not think they have. But if anything
or anybody was objectionable, I presume he would be removed.
672 *' TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Exactly. Do you think that it is prudent or
desirable to have wireless operators, upon whom rests so much res{>on-
sibility in a crisis, unoflicifiJ in their relationship to jour companies 1
Mr. Franklin. They are not unofficial, Senator, m a certam way;
that is, as regards any messages that have to be sent or received in
connection with the navigation of the steamer, they are absolutely
under the direction of the captain.
Senator Smith. But you heard the testimony yesterday as to en-
joining silence, and you heard the custom revealed permitting the
wireless operators, Binns, Cottam, and Bride, to receive pecuniary
reward for information in their possession and I would hke to know
if you approve that course ?
Mr. Franklin. I think that is rather an unfortunate course, and
I think that it mi^ht possibly be an incentive for these young men to
trv to withhold information until they arrive with the steamer.
Therefore it is an unfortunate course; but it is only human nature.
Senator Smith. What kind of human nature is that ?
Afr. Franklin. That these boys, when they get ashore, will, if
thej sit down and give a reporter a story, expect some compensation
for it. If that could be eliminated, it would be a very desirable
thing to do.
Senator Smith. Suppose your company when it installs wireless
apparatus on your snips does so with the distinct understandiiijg
ttat you are to supply operators making proper testa as to their
emciency and proper inquiries as to their character and obtammg
proper knowledge as to their fitness for the employment — do you not
think that quite desirable?
Mr. Franklin. That is a matter we would have to give careful
consideration to before expressing a definite opinion about, whether
that would be more desirable than the present plan, because these
are commercial problems; these wireless equipments are in com-
munication with the shore and they are for the use of the public;
they are not for our use exclusively. If they were for our use exclu-
sively, a part of the ship's equipment for the ship's messages only,
and for commimication in case of danger or anything of tnat sort,
then we could employ the people and regulate them absolutely.
Senator Smith. Do you not think it is of doubtful wisdom to have
any man aboard one of your ships which navigate the waters of the
world, practically charged with %e responsibility, who is not under
your immediate control and direction ?
Mr. Franklin. He is under the direction and control of the captain,
so far as the ship's business is concerned ; but he is not, so far as mes-
sages that he might receive or send are concerned, because he could
send them or receive them without anybody else knowing anything
about them. But even if we had a man appointed there, one of our
own men, he might do the same thing.
Senator Smith. He might, but if he did, you could remove him t
Mr. Franklin. Yes; so could Marconi.
Senator Smith. But you could not ?
Mr. Franklin. I think if our commander suspected anything of
that kind, and had fairly good reason for doing so, and made proper
representations to the Marconi Co., he would be discharged.
Senator Smith. Exactly; but your commander is gone, in this
instance.
(t . ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 673
Mr. Franklin. But you are talking about a general proposition.
Senator Smith. I want to ask you, now, one further question on
that line, whether you think it is wise to have an employee on one of
your ships, in an important position, subject to the direction and con-
trol of strangers to your management and business ?
Mr. Franklin. Ii you had asked me that question before this
disaster, it would have made no impression on me; but after having
heard of this telegram that went out to this operator, it does then
seem as if the operator should have instructions of exactly the same
nature as the captain of the steamer has. In other words, when the
captain leaves the port, leaves his dock, he is the master in cnarge. and
everything is up to him. If this Marconi operator, whether ne is
under the control of the Marconi man, or under our control, had simi-
lar instructions under the captain, it might improve matters ; it might
avoid a similar occurrence, if there was anything there. I do not
know.
Senator Smith. Do you in any manner, or does the captain of tlie
ship under your direction, fix rules and regulations for the conduct of
wireless operators aboard your ships ? I will be a Uttle more definite;
I mean as to the hours he shall be on duty, as to the number of times
he shall visit the apparatus, as to liis right to leave the operating room,
and as to the person to whom he must report before absenting nimseli
from his post \
Mr. Franklin. I do not think those are fixed by tlie management
of the sliip, but the management of the ship understands about what
he has to do.
Senator Smith. In tliis instance, vou recall that the operator,
Cottam, on tlie Carpathia, said that he had no fixed hours, that he
reported to no one, and was practically in the unrestricted manage-
ment of that wireless station on the Carpathiaf
Mr. Franklin. He might have been, true, in a certain sense; but if
tJie captain of the steamer found the boy was not doing his duty — the
operator — lie would very promptly take him to task.
Senator Smith. I understand tliat; but this wireless operator,
Cottam, told the committee in your hearing that he receivecf a mes-
sage wliich he did not even report to the captain of the CarpcUhia,
because he did not deem it important; the wireless operator on tlie
Titanic refused, with the telephone on his ears, to accept the warning
of the steamship Califomian for 30 minutes after communication was
attempted, because he was making up liis accounts. The only reason
for receiving the C. Q. D. call of distress from the Titanic when she
struck that iceberg was because this wireless operator happened to
have on liis head the telephone wliich would register tlie call wliile he
was undressing to get in bed ; and in five minutes he would have had
that off his head and been in bed, in wliich event the Carpathia would
have been in utter ignorance of tliis call of tlie Titanic until the
operator resumed Jus position in the operating room. Now, I ask you
wliether you consider it important that operators should be employed
directly by the owners of thes3 sliips, and regulations in great detail
made for their conduct, in order to insure the safety of your passengers
and the safety of your ships i
Mr. Franklin. In reply to that, I think that you will find that
these operators have certain regulations.
674 TITAinC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I understand what they are. You heard him say
what they were, that they were the regulations of the Berlin Con-
vention, with which he was familiar?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Senator Smith. Now, do you understand that they have any regu-
lations outside of those ?
Mr. Franklin. My understanding was that the operators were
supposed to stand by their instruments for certain times, where
there was only one operator; but this young man the other day testi-
iield that he was largely guided by the amount of business
Senator SMrm. And by his own judgment.
Mr. Franklin. Yes; and the amount of business. Now, there is
no doubt that the complete investigation of this whole thing will
evolve some scheme, whether it is best for the operator to be under
the jurisdiction of the Marconi Co. as to his hours, or whether he
should be absolutely under the jurisdiction of the steamer; that is,
as to his hours, because that is a different thing, the matter of hours,
from the matter of conforming with the ship's rules. That will no
doubt be a matter of careful consideration, and the best course to be
pursued will, after consideration, no doubt be brought out. The
steamship companies want to get as much protection from the Mar-
coni instruments for their travelers and patrons as they can possibly
get. We can see what is the best method of handling that matter
only after everything is investigated.
Senator Smith. From the testimony of Cottam, the Carpaihia
operator, we learned that he had no nours that were particularly
prescribed.
Mr. Franklin. Correct.
Senator Smith. Do you not think it would be quite desirable to have
a regulation that the operator should be in his operating room from
6 o'dock at night until davlight the next morning, or 6 o'clock the
next morning, during the liours when people are asleep, when the
vision is obscured, and when most of these calamities on the sea
occur, rather than be on duty during the daytime, when all eyes of
the ship's officers and passengers and crew are helpful and difficulties
more easily avoided ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. Of course the question — I do not know
whether I can make it clear to you, but this is the point, that the
Marconi instrument does not avoid difficulties; it only assists
Senator Smith. I understand that. I do not want you to infer
that I think it is perfect.
Mr. Franklin. I think I can answer your question in this way.
It is a question of long distance. It is not a question of daytime
or darkness. Now, no doubt this investigation will bring forth
facts. The present law of the United States is that a steamer car-
rying passengers, when the number of passengers plus the number
of the crew exceeds 50, must have a Marconi instrument and oper-
ator. You may find upon going into this matter further that it
would be well for the UnitecT States to pass some law or legislation
or regulation to the effect that all steamers carrying passengers must
have an operator at the switchboard all the time. I do not think
it is a question of nipht or day.
Senator Smith. That is what I am aiming at
Mr. Franklin. I do not think it is, night or day.
it -»^.«,*^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBIU 676
Senator Smith. You say that the Marconi apparatus is not perfect.
Mr. Franklin. No; I did not say that.
Senator Smith. What did you say ?
Mr. Franklin. I said the Marconi apparatus is not an aid to navi-
gation in the way of picking up or locating anything, and therefore
it is not a question of day or night.
Senator oMiTH. But it managed to record a call which was re-
sponded to promptly; and as a result of that wireless message which
was accidentally received the lives of about 700 people were saved.
Mr. Franklin. Further than that, it has saved a great many lives
during the time it has been on shipboard, and it is a very valuable
assistance in the case of any disaster.
Senator Smith. Now I am coming right to a point which I had in
mind when I started. Suppose the surviving operator of the
Titanic had been under the control of your company, and instead of
failing to reply to the call of the Oalifornian for 30 minutes, because
he wanted to make out his accounts, he had been required to immedi-
ately respond to a call from whatsoever source, and by responding
immediately that night the information received from the Cal^-
fomian might have avoided this accident entirely, do you not think
that that shows the wisdom of your company controlling these men
and having a little more inducement held out for competent and dis-
creet men in these important positions ?
Mr. Franklin. Of course the question of the Caiifomian would not
have made any difference, because my recollection is that lie testified
that the Caiifomian was simply wanting to pass an ice message to
him about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and he was passing it to the
Baltic later, and he picked it up
Senator Smith. That was about 5 hours and 40 minutes before
the accident occurred ?
Mr. Franklin. But they got that same information a half an hour
later, and whether they got it half an hour earlier or later in this par-
ticular case made no difference.
Senator Smith. No; but minutes count in such a situation.
Mr. Franklin. But your point in regard to declining to receive
or not receiving, or in regard to indifference in receiving, information
of that kind is of course well taken.
Senator Smith. Minutes count. You heard the testimony of the
lookout ?
Mr. Franklin. In this particular case, the minutes did not amount
to anything.
Senator Smith. And you heard the testimony of the witness Fleet,
the other lookout, that with glasses he could have avoided the ice-
berg and saved the ship ?
Mr. Franklin. I did not know that.
Senator Smith. You heard the testimony of the wheelman,
I lichens, that if he had gotten his signal to alter liis course a very few
seconds earlier he might have avoided that iceberg.
Mr. Franklin. Of course that applies to every accident — those
remarks — because he got it just the moment that the lookout got it.
Senator Smith. Yes; but neither one of them got it in time.
Mr. Franklin. No; but they got it as quickly as the human eye
could get it, apparently.
676 TITAKIO DISAflTBR.
Senator Smith. But here was a half hour that the CaliformAn was
endeavoring to give the Titanic warning that she was among the
iceberg.
Mr. Franklin. But that was five hours and a half or three quarters
before the accident.
Senator Smith. That is just 30 minutes earlier than any other notice
came to the ship, is it not ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not yet understand what time, if any time, this
Am-erika notice was received by the ship.
Senator Smith. I have been unable to ^t that, and I have been
unable to get from the officers of the Titamc the exact time when the
message from the Califomian was received, or whether there was any
message from the Cahfornian received at all. Nobody seems to know
about it, at all.
Mr. Franklin. The operator said he picked up the message from
the C^lifornian on the way from the Cahforrdan to the BaUic,
Mr. Smfth. He picked it up through the BaUiCj just as Cottam, of
the Carpathia, took a message from the TiUmic to the Frankfurt j saying
'*You are a fool; keep out," when the Frankfurt was askmg, *'What
is the matter ?" I think the direct call ought to be responded to the
moment it is made; and it ought to have been.
Mr. Franklin. I think they ought to respond to every call of that
kind they get; they ought to at once.
Senator Smith. And he did not do it in this instance ?
Mr. Franklin. I can only refer you to his testimony; I do not know.
Senator Smith. You heard it ?
Mr. Franklin. I heard it; it is a matter of record.
Senator Smith. Now, you say you think that as the result of this
inc^uiry some improvement may be made by congressional legislation
which \vill have a tendency to remove some of the causes which con-
tributed to this accident.
Mr. Franklin. That, I take it, is the very important object of this
investigation.
Senator Smith. And that, I say to you, is the direct object of the
investigation.
Now, you have been present all the time, and I saw you first of the
officials of the White Star Co. on the dock in New York when the
Carpathia arrived, and I want to ask you whether you have been
treated with consideration and courtesy throughout the inquiry ?
Mr. Franklin. Well, I certainly have.
Senator Smith. So far as vou know, have the officials of vour
company been similarly treated ?
Mr. Franklin. I tlunk they have had every courtesy and con-
sideration. The only question is that we could like it very much if,
when one of our witnesses has testified, he would be allowed to proceed
home. That is a matter of expeiliency, of whic^i you are tne best
judge.
Senator Smith. And which I have refused to allow; I refused that
permission.
Mr. Franklin. You have refusoil permission, so far as I know.
Senator Smith. I want you to know that that has not been done
in any captious way, or for the purpose of criticizing anybody, or for
the purpose of inconvenioncing anybody, but because each day's
procoeclings bring out a little more strongly than the preceding day's
n .^^.^^^ fi
TITANIC 0ISASTSR. 677
circumstances surrounding this alTair; and the body which we repre-
sent would not be satisfied, and the people they represent will not be
satisfied, if we do not make the inquiry thorough and painstaking.
As I understand you, you have no criticism to make of the course that
has been pursued ?
Mr. Franklin. We quite appreciate that, Senator, and we are very
anxious to cooperate with you in every way. We had hoped that you
would be able to proceed with the witnesses from abroad, who are
anxious to get home earUer, and we have been disappointed that that
has not been done. But we very thoroughly realize that you have
a very important problem on vour hands, and you are the l)est judge
of how that shoula be proceeded with.
Senator Smith. You will admit, Mr. Franklin, that thus far you are
the only witness outside of the Britishers who have been witnesses
w^ho has been placed on the stand? I refer to and include Mai.
Peuchen, of Toronto, Canada, whom I also regard as a Britisher. We
have placed no one else on the stand, have we, except these officers
and men ?
Mr. Fbankun. Well, Mr. Marconi.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi is a foreigner.
Mr, Frankun. I have tried to make myself clear, that we realize
the importance of this investigation; we realize the many matters
that are being put before you on all sides; your anxiety to deal fairly
with us and everybody else, and we are not wishing you to think for
one moment that we are in any way, and I do not want you to think
from what I say to you that we are, in any way, complaining. Do I
make myself clear to you ?
Senator Smith. You do, and I am greatly obliged to you. Do you
think we are holding our sessions sufficiently prolonged each day ?
Mr. Franklin. From my point of view, you could sit day and
ni^ht; but I think from the point of view of you gentlemen and the
others you are doing so.
Senator Smith. For the present I am going to excuse you, and ask
the Sergeant at Arms if Mr. Luis' Klein is here 1
Mr. CoRNEiJUS. No, sir; he is not.
Senator Smith. Is the captain of the Califomian here, or the cap-
tain of the Mount Temple f
Mr. CoRNELTUS. I have seen neither one, yet.
Senator Fletcher. I would like to avsk one or two questions.
Do you know whether the Titanic or your company give anything
in the "way of extra pay, any inducements, to the officers or members
of the crew of your ship for extra diligence in case of emergency,
accident, distress, or anything of that sort ?
Mr. Franklin. That matter would be dealt with by the manage-
ment of the ship, located abroad, after the arrival of the steamer.
But what the company does, as a matter of fact, is this: Every officer
tm a steamer which has been run free from all accidents for 12 months
gets a bonus — the captain and other officers. The slightest accident
eliminates that bonus. Therefore it is to every officer's advantage
to have his ship run absolutely free from accident.
Senator Fletcher. What do you believe, from your exi)erience in
this business, as to whether it would be practicable to run ships in
jiairs across the ocean ?
Mr. Franklin. No; I do not think that would be at all practicable
678 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. For what reason?
Mr. Franklin. The ships are all of different speeds, and I think
it would be an element of risk rather than otherwise, probably. It
it better to have the ships separated. From a commercial and. busi-
ness point of view it would be a very difficult matter to work it out
in the way you suggest.
Senator Fletcher. You do not believe, then, it would be practical ?
Mr. Franklin. I do not believe it would be, and I do not think it
would be an element of safety.
Senator Fletcher. Or even add to the safety of the passengers,
to have ships go in hailing distance of each other ?
Mr. Franklin. No, I do not think so. I do not think it is a prac-
tical matter.
Senator Fletcher. Under your arrangement with the Marconi C!o.,
did the company pay the Titanic for tne privilege of operating its
machine on the ship, or did the ship pay the Marconi Co. I
Mr. Franklin. That I could not go into detail about with you,
because the entire arrangement is made between the Oceanic Steam
Navigation Co. — that is, the Wliite Star Line — and the Marconi Co.
in Liverpool, and it is a matter of agreement between the two com-
panies, and we have nothing to do with it on this side of the Atlantic.
Senator Smith. I will ask Mr. Gill, of the CaMfomianf to be sworn.
TESTIMONY OF EBVEST GILL.
The witness was duly sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Gill. Ernest Gill.
Senator Smith. Where do you live ?
Mr. Gill. Liverpool, England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Gill. Twenty-nine.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Gill. Second donkeyman on the steamship Califomian,
Senator Smith. I want to read to you the following statement and
ask you whether it is true :
I, the undersigned, Ernest Gill, beinp: employed as second donkeyman on the
steamer CaHfomian^ Capt. Lloyd, give the following statement of the incidents of
the night of Sunday, April 14:
I am 29 years of age; native of Yorkshire; single. I was making my first voyage
on the Calif arm an.
On the night of April 14 I was on duty from 8 p. m. until 12 in the enjrine room.
At 11.56 I came on deck. The stars were shining brightly. It was very clear and
I could see for a long distance. The ship's engmes had been stopped since 10.30,
and she was drifting amid floe ice. I looked over the rail on the starboard side and
saw the lights of a very large steamer about 10 miles away. I could see her broad-
side lights. I watchea her for fully a minute. They could not have helped but
see her from the bridee and lookout.
It was now 12 o'clock and I went to my cabin. I woke my mate, William Thomas.
He heard the ice crunching alongside the ship and asked, ''Are we in the ice?" I
replied, "Yes; but it must be clear off to the starboard, for I saw a big vessel going
along full speed. She looked as if she might be a big German."
I turned in, but could not sleep. In half an hour I turned out, thinking to smoke
a ci^rette. Because of the cargo I could not smoke 'tween decks, so I went on deck
again.
I had been on deck about 10 minutes when I saw a white rocket about 10 miles
away on the starboard side. 1 thought it must be a shooting star. In seven or ei?ht
minutes I saw distinctly a second rocket in the same place, and I said to myself,
**That must be a vessel in distress."
it ...p^.^**^ ff
TITANIC DISA8TEB. 679
It was not my business to notify the bridge or the lookouts; but they could not
have helped but see them.
I turned in immediately after, supposing that the ship would pay attention to the
rockets.
I knew no more until I was awakened at 6.40 by the chief engineer, who said,
"Turn out to render assistance. The Titanic has gone down."
I exclaimed and leaped from my bunk. I went on deck and found the vessel under
way and proceeding full speed. She was clear of the field ice, but there were plenty
of bergs about.
I went down en watch and heard the second and fourth engineers in conversation.
Mr. J. C. Evans is the second and Mr. Wooten is the fourth. The second was telling
the fourth that the third officer had reported rockets had gone up in his watch i
knew then that it must have boo6 the Titanic I had seen.
The second engineer added that the captain had been notified by the apprentice
officer, whose name, I think, is Gibson, of the rockets. The skipper had tola him to
Morse to the vessel in distress. Mr. Stone, the second navigating officer, was on the
bridge at the time, said Mr. Evans.
I overheard Mr. Evans say that more lights had been shown and more rockets went
up. Then, according to Mr. Evans, Mr. Gibson went to the captain again and reported
more rockets. The skipper told him to continue t>o Morse until he got a reply. No
reply was received.
The next remark I heard the second pass was, "Why in the devil they didn't wake
the wirelewi man up? " The entire crew of the steamer have been talking among them-
selves about the disregard of the rockets. I personally urged several to ioin^me in
protesting a^inst the conduct of the captain, but they refused, because tney feared
to lose their jobs.
A day or two before the ship reached port the skipper called the (quartermaster, who
was on duty at the time the rockets were discharged, into his cabm. They were in
conversation about three-quarters of an hour. The quartermaster declared that he
did not see the rockets.
I am quite sure that the Calif omian was less than 20 miles from the Titanic^ which
the officers report to have been our position. I could not have seen her if she had been
more than 10 miles distant, and I saw her very plainly.
I have no ill will toward the captain or any officer of the ship, and I am losing a
profitable berth by making this statement. I am actuated by the desire that no cap-
tain who refuses or neglects to give aid to a vessel in distress should be able to hum
up the men.
Ernest Gill.
Sworn and subscribed to before me this 24th day of April, 1912.
Samuel Ptttkam, Notary Public.
I will ask you, witness, whether this statement is true ?
Mr. Gill. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Senator Fletcher. What direction was the Calif omian going?
Mr. Gill. We were headed for Boston, sir.
Senator Fletcher. In what direction were the rockets from the
Califomian when you first saw them ?
Mr. Gill. On the starboard side, forward.
Senator Fletcher. Was the Califomian passed by the Titanic, her
course being the same as the Titanic^ 8 course was originally?
Mr. Gill. I think slie must have passed the Titanic, The Titanic
must have passed us first, because we were floating, and that would
take a lot out of our way. We were a slower boat.
Senator Fletcher. After the Titanic struck the iceberg did the
Califomian pass by the Titanic?
Mr. Gill. The only way I can account for this, we were stopped in
the ocean, and it is not natural for a ship to keep her head one way
all the time She must have been drifting.
Senator Fletcher. How long after the rockets were sent up was
it before the Califomian got under steam and proceeded ?
Mr. Gill. I do not know what time she got under wav, sir. It
was somewhere about 5 o'clock, or in the vicmity of 5 o'clock.
s
680 TITAKIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. Was that about daylight?
Mr. Gill, Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Up to about that time the Californian was
drifting ?
Mr. Gill Yes, sir; with her engines stopped.
Senator Fletcher. And you saw the rocKets along about 2 o'clock,
or before 2 ?
Mr. Gill About 12.30; at one bell, sir.
Senator Fletcher. About 12.30 you began first to see the rockets ?
Mr. Gill Yes, sir; at first, when I saw it it was not very plain.
Senator Fletcher. Off on your starboard bow ?
Mr. Gill Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What kind of rockets were they ? What did
they look like %
Mr. Gill. They looked to me to be pale blue, or white.
Senator Fletcher. Which, pale blue or white ?
Mr. Gill. It would be apt to be a very clear blue; I would catch
it when it was dying. I aid not catch tne exact tint, but I reckon
it was white.
Senator Fletcher. Did it look as if the rooket had been sent u
and the explosion had taken place in the air and the stars spangle
out?
Mr. Gill. Yes, sir; the stars spangled out. I could not say about
the stars. I say, I caught the tail end of the rocket.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any lights on the steamer where
the rockets were sent up ?
Mr. Gnx. No, sir; no sign of the steamer at the time.
Senator Fletcher. You could not see any lights at all *
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see any Morsing from that
steamer ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you hear any noise; escaping steam or
anvthing of that sort ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. There was not much noise on the Chiifornian
at that time 1
Mr. Gill. No, sir; not much noise on the ship.
Senator Fletcher. What sort of a night was it ?
Mr. Gill. It was a fine night.
Senatr)r Fletcher. No fog ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir; a clear night; a very clear night.
Senator Fletcher. You estimate that the rockets went up not
over 20 miles away from the Californian f
Mr. Gill. It could not be 20 miles away, sir. I could not see 20
miles away. I seen the ship, and she had not had time to get 20 miles
away by the time I got on aeck again.
Senator Fletcher. As I understand, you never did see the ship,
did you?
Mr. Gill. No, sir; not without the one I seen, the big ship, that I
told my mate was a German boat — not without that was the ship in
question, the Titanic.
Senator Fletcher. You think it may have been the Titanic?
ii .^»..w*«^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 681
Mr. Gill. Yes, sir. I am of the general opinion that the crow is,
that she was the Titanic,
Senator Fletcher. When did jrou first see her ?
Mr. Gill. At four minutes after 12, exactly.
Senator Fletcher. How do you know that ?
Mr. Gill. Because at five minutes to 12 I was working with the
fourth engineer at a pump that kicked, that would not work, and
while we were interested in our work we forgot the time ; and I looked
up, and I said, **It is five minutes to 12. I haven't called my mate,
Mr. Wooten. I will go call him." And I got to the ladder to climb
out of the engine room and get on deck, lliat taken me one minute,
to get up there.
^nator Fletcher. Was this ship moving at that time ?
Mr. Gill. I did not take particular notice of it, sir, with the rushing
to call my mate. I went along the deck. It taken me about a minute,
going along the deck, to get to the hatch I had to go down, and I could
see her as I walked along the deck. Suppose I am going forward, now ;
I could see her over there [indicating], a Dig ship, and a couple of rows
of lights; so that I knew it was not any small craft. It was no tramp.
I did not suppose it would be a "Star" boat. I reckoned she must
be a German boat. So I dived down the hatch, and as I turned
around in the hatch I could not see her, so you can ^uess the latitude
she was in. As I stood on the hatch, with my bacK turned, I could
not see the ship. Then I went and called my mate, and that is the
last I saw of it.
Senator Fletchbr. How long after that was it before you saw the
rockets go up ?
Mr. Gill. About 35 minutes, sir; a little over half an hour.
Senator Flecther. Did you observe the rockets go up in the direc-
tion this ship was as you nrst saw her, from where the Oalifomian
was?
Mr. Gill. It was more abeam, sir; more broadside of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. In the meantime the Califomian, as I under-
stand, was drifting ?
Mr. Gill. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. She was not under way at all ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was the ship too far away, when you saw the
rockets going up, for you to see the lights on her ?
Mr. Gill. Yes, sir; no sign of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. What time was it when you heard these officers
discussing this matter that was mentioned in this statement ?
Mr. Gill. Tewnty minutes past 8 on Monday morning.
Senator Fletcher. Have you been discharged or dismissed by the
Calijomian ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir. I belong to the ship now.
Senator Smith. Mr. Gill, did you ever see the North German-Lloyd
ship Franlcfurif
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not see it that night or day ?
Mr. Gill. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What made you think that this ship you saw, or
thought you saw, was a Ger.nan ship ?
^_.. t< — >J
I
682 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Gill. Because the German ship would be heading to New
York at about that time.
Senator Smith. Heading for New York ?
Mr. Gill. Or from New York. It is in that vicinity we meet
those boats.
Senator Smith. I think that is all. You may be excused; but hold
yourself subject to the committee's orders.
I made a statement a Uttle while ago, and received one from Mr.
Franklin [reading]:
London, April f 6, 1912— Rp, IS.
Senator Smith,
Chairman Titanic Inquiry, Washington:
Complaints here British subjects not receiving sufficient consideration in inquir\'.
Greatly appreciate assurance denying this.
Reynolds Newspaper, London.
I do not think this calls for any denial upon my part. The chief
representative of the company whose oflBcials and employees are the
only British subjects here, has said more than it would be proper for
any member of the subcommittee to say, and I rest upon tnat stat^?-
ment.
W^^ will now take a recess until 3 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 1.20 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until 3 o'clock
p. m.
AFTER RECESS.
The committee met at 3 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking of
recess.
Senator Smith. I want the reporter to put into the record the
following note:
Note by the navy-yard operator. Carpathia would afrno time acknowledge receipt
of a message from Navy ships or stations. This station called them at 5.30 p. m.,
4-1&-12, when she was trying to get into commimication with New York stations, but
her operator refused to take any assistance from us. This was the only station ?he
could work at that time, as no other station could hear her.
Young,
Operator, U.S. WtreUss Station,
Navy Yard, New York'.
Let that be marked for identification.
The note referred to was marked "Exhibit H. H. P. No. 1, April
26, 1912.
TESTIMOmr OF CAPT. STAVLET LORD.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your full name and where do you reside I
Mr. Lord. Stanley Lord, Liverpool, England.
Sehator SMrrn. What age are you, Captain ?
Mr. Lord. Thirty-five, sir.
Senator SMrrn. What is your business ?
Mr. Lord. Master mariner.
Senator Smfth. How long have you been a mariner ?
Mr. Lord. Twenty years.
Senator Smith. In what ships have you sailed ?
Mr. Lord. As master ?
Senator Smith. As master.
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TITANIC DI8ASTBB. 688
Mr. Lord. The AntiUian, the Louisianian, the WiUia/m Cliff, and
the Califomian,
Capt. Smith. Where were you in your ship on the 14th day of
April last?
Mr. Lord. At what time ?
Senator Smith. At 6 o'clock in the morning of that day ?
Mr. Lord. On the 14th of April at 6 o'clock we have not sot it
down here, sir. [Witness looking at a book, afterwards identified as
the log of the Califomian.] I can give it to you at 9.40 o'clock and
at noon.
Senator Smith. Give it to me at 9.40.
Mr. Lord. 42, 47.
Senator Smith. A little more specifically, please.
Mr. Lord. 42 north and 47 west.
Senator Smith. Are vou reading from the log of the Califormanf
Mr. Lord. The Calijornian; the ship's log, yes.
Senator Smith. Where were you when you made the next entry in
the log ?
Mr. Lord. As to position ?
Senator Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lord. 42, 5, and 57.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Lord. 10.21 o'clock.
Senator Smith. The same date ?
Mr. Lord. The same date, the 14th of April.
Senator Smith. What other entries have you in the log, of your
position on that date ?
Mr. Lord. At 6.30.
Senator Smith. 6.30 p. m. ?
Mr. Lord. Yes; we had, 42® 5' and 49° 10', as Having passed two
la^e icebergs.
Senator Smith. What is the next entry ?
Mr. Lord. There is no position given there. The next entry was
7. 1 5 o'clock. " Passed one large iceberg, and two more in sight to the
southward."
Senator Smith. Where were you at that time ?
Mr. Lord. No position entered here, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you attempt to communicate with the vessel
TUanic on Sunday ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At what time of the day ?
Mr. Lord. Ten minutes to 11.
Senator Smith. A. m. ?
Mr. Lord. P. m.
Senator Smith. That is ship's time ?
Mr. Lord. At the ship's time for 47° 26' longitude.
Senator Burton. That was of longitude 47° 25' west?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was that communication ?
Mr, Lord. We told them we were stopped and siurounded by ice.
Senator Smith. Did the Titanic acknowledge that message ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir; I believe he told the operator he had read it,
and told him to shut up, or stand by, or something; that he was busy.
40475— FT 8—12 3
ft84 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. That was the Titamc^s reply ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou have further communication with the
Tiianicf
Mr. Lord. Not at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the Titanic have further communication with
you?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the Titanic^ 8 position on the sea when
she sank ?
Mr. Lord. I know the position given to me by the Virginian as the
position where she struck an iceberg, 41° 56' and 50° 14'.
Senator Smith. Figuring from the Titanic' s position at the time she
went down and your position at the time you sent this warning to the
TitaniCy how far were these vessels from one another ? ,
Mr. Lord. From the position we stopped in to the position at
which the Titwnic is supposed to have nit the iQeberg, 19^ to 19}
miles; south 16 west, sir, was the course.
Senator Smith. Did the Titanic operator answer at once the mes-
sage sent by you ?
Mr. Lord. I believe he did.
Senator Smith. This was at 1 1 o'clock and how many minutes ?
Senator Burton. 10.50, he said.
Mr. Lord. About 11, approximately.
Senator Smith. About 11?
Mi, Lord. Yes; approximately.
Senator Smith. Do you know what time the Titanic sent out this
C. Q. D. call?
Mr. Lord. No,. sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Did the Califomian receive that call ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Either from the Titanic or any other ship?
Mr, Lord. We got it from the Virginian,
Senator Smith. What time did you receive it ?
Mr. Lord. Six o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. A. m. ?
Mr. Lord. A. m., on the 15th.
Senator Smith. What is the average speed of the steamship Cali-
fomian under fair conditions ?
Mr. Lord. It would depend upon the consumption of coal.
Senator Smith. What speed do you attempt to make ?
Mr. Lord. On our present consumption we average 11 in fine
weather.
Senator Smith. Eleven in fine weather ?
Mr. Lord. On our consumption at present.
Senator Smith. In case of distress, I suppose it would be possible
for you to exceed that considerably.
Afr. Lord. Oh, we made 13 and 13^ the day we were going down
to the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Were jrou under full speed then ?
Mr. Lord. We were driving all we could.
Senator Smfth. When you notified the Titanic that you were in the
ice, how much ice were you in ?
(< ^.^. ^••^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 685
Mr. Lord. Well, we were surrounded by a lot of loose ice, and we
were about a quarter of a mile off the edge of the field.
Senator Smith. Were there any icebergs in view ?
Mr. Lord. No; I could not see that; not then.
Senator Smith. This ice that you were in was field ice ?
Mr. Lord. Field ice.
Senator Smith. And how large an area, in your judgment, would
it cover?
Mr. Lord. Well, my judgment was from what I saw the next day;
not what I saw that night.
Senator Smith. Exactly; but how large an area would it cover the
next morning ?
Mr. Lord. I suppose about 25 miles long and from 1 to 2 miles
Tdde.
Senator Smith. How badly were you interfered with by the ice
on Sunday evening ?
Mr. Lord. How were we interfered with ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. We stopped altogether.
Senator Smith. What did you stop for?
Mr. Lord. So we would not run over the top of it.
Senator Smith. You stopped your ship so that you might avoid
the ice ?
Mr. Lord. To avoid the ice.
Senator Smith. And did you avoid it ?
Mr. Lord. I did.
Senator Smith. When did you notify the Titanic of your condition ?
What was your purpose ?
Mr. Lord. It was just a matter of courtesy. I thought he would
be a long way from where we were. I did not think he was any-
where near the ice. By rights, he ought to have been 18 or 19 miles
to the southward of where I was. I never thought the ice was
stretching that far down.
Senator Smith. You gave him this information ?
Mr. Lord. Just as a matter of courtesy. We always pass the
news around when we get hold of anything like that.
Senator Smith. You knew it would not do any harm and might
do them some good ?
Mr. Lord. Yes. I did not know where he was; I had no idea
where he was — I mean the distance he was away from me.
Senator Smith. Capt. Lord, for the purpose of making it a little
clearer, what did you say your position was at 10.50 p. m. Sunday,
April 14?
Mr. Lord. I did not say at all.
Senator SMrm. Will you state ?
Mr. LoKD. It was the same position I was in when I stopped at
10.21, and that I gave vou before as 42*" 5' and 50'' 7'.
Senator SMrrn. You had stopped, and your position did not change ?
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith. Substantially, for how long a time ?
Mr. Lord. We moved the engines first at 5.15 on the 15th of
April, full ahead.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything regarding the Titanic dis-
aster, of your own knowledge ? Did you see the ship on Sunday ?
686 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or anv signals from her ?
Mr. Lord. Not from the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Was the Titanic beyond your range of vision I
Mr. Lord. I should think so; 19^ or 20 miles away.
Senator Smith. How long did it take you to reach the scene of the
accident, from the time you steamed up and got under way Monday
mornii^ ?
Mr. Lord. From the time we received the measage of the
Titanic^ 8 position ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord (reading) :
Six o'clock, proceeded slow, pushing through the thick icQ.
I will read this from the log book.
Six o'clock, proceeded slow, pushing throucrh the thick ice.
6.20, clear of thickest of ice; proceeded full speed, pushing the ice. -
8.30, stopped close to steamship Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Was the Carpaihia at that time at the scene of the
wreck ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir; she was taking the last of the people out of
the boats.
Senator Smith. Then from 6 o'clock in the morning you were
under steam in the direction of the Titanic for two and one-half
hours ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When you pulled alongside the Carpaihia t
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At the scene of the wreck ?
Mr. Ijord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the Carpathians position when she
received the distress call from the Titanic?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In speed, how does the Califomian compare with
the Carpathia f
Mr. Lord. I do not know anything about the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. I would Uke to ask you, Capt. Lord, to tell the
committee what kind of watch you kept on Sunday night after the
en^nes stopped. Did you keep an unusual lookout on duty?
Mr. Lord. No ; not after we stopped the engines.
Senator Smith. Did you, up to tne time you stopped ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee of what that consisted.
Mr. Lord. We doubled the lookout from the crew, put a man on
the forecastle head — that is, right at the bow of the ship — and I was
on the bridge myself with an officer, which I would not have been
under ordinary conditions.
Senator Smith. What time did you increase the watch ?
Mr. Lord. When it got dark that night.
Senator Smith. As soon as it got dark?
Mr. Lord. About 8 o'clock. I went on the bridge at 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. And you remained on the bridge how long ?
Mr. Lord. Until half past 10.
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TITANIC DISASTER, 687
Senator Smith. And this increased watch was maintained during
&U that time ?
Mr. Lord. Until half past 10.
Senator Smith. You thought that was necessary in your situation
at that time ?
Mr. Lord. Well, we had had a report of this ice three or four days
before, so we were Just taking the extra precautions.
Senator Smith. Y ou had had reports of this ice ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Two or three days before ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. From whom had you received those reports ?
Mr. Lord. From Capt. Barr, of the Corcman^ on the 13th of April.
That was the day before.
Senator Smith. From whom ?
Mr. Lord. From Capt. Barr.
Senator Smith. What further advice ?
Mr. Lord. Would you like to see the log ?
Senator Smith. No ; I want you to read that into the record, if
you please.
Mr. Lord. From Coronian to captain Californian:
"Westbound steamers report bergs, growlers, and field ice 42** north from 40** 51'
west, April 12.
Barr.
Senator Smith. Can you file those copies 1
Mr. Lord. This is the only one I have.
Senator Smith. That gives the date 1
Mr. Lord. The 13th of April, 4.36 p. m., New York time.
Senator Smith. What was the next wammg ?
Mr. Lord. The next warning was when I saw it myself at half-
past 6, I think. I do not remember any others. There may have
been somethii^. No, sir; I mistake. We had the Parisian; we
were talking with the Parisian, who was some distance ahead of us,
and I was asking if he had seen any ice, and to let me know, as he was
so far ahead, before dark came on; and he gave me reports.
On the 14 th of April— shall I read ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr/ Lord. *44th April," no time given; '^41° 55', 49^ 14', passed
three large icebergs.'' Not signed; no name to it.
Senator Smith. You know from whom it came ?
Mr. Lord. It was from the Parisian.
Here is another one we had some time before, on the 9th of April,
from the New Amsterdam:
To "Californian":
Ice field reported April 4th in 43° 20' north, 49'' longitude, extending as far to
north-northeast as horizon is visible.
M. H. B.
Those are the letters of the ship.
Senator Burton. What is the date when you received that ?
Mr. Lord. The 9th of April.
This is from one operator to another operator, what was known as
a service message. It was not addressea to me.
Senator Smith. Where did you sail from on that voyage ?
Mr. Lord. London.
688 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Bound for Boston f
Mr. Lord. Boston; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you please give the Greenwich time of your
wireless message as to ice, sent to the Titanicf
Mr. Ix)RD. Not the Greenwich time; I can give you the New York
time. The New York time is what the wireless messages are all
dated. Will that do?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. Do you mean the last message ?
Senator Smith. No; the message you sent to the Titanic.
Mr. Lord. I only sent one straight to the Titanic,
Senator Smith I understand; the message you sent to the Titanic
at 11 o'clock on Sunday night.
Mr. Lord. That would be 9.05 or 9.10. There is an hour and fifty
minutes time between New York and my noon position on the 14tn.
Senator Smith. Captain, does your log show the condition of the
weather on Sunday ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. Will you please give us the condition of the
weather at the earliest time you have it recorded and the latest time
you have it recorded on Sunday ?
Mr. Lord (reading from book). Four a. m., fresh wind, rough and
westerly; sky overcast and heavy shore showers.
Senator Smith. The next ?
Mr. Lord. Eight a. m., moderate wind, and sea overcast; clear
weather. Noon, fresh wind; moderate sea; clear weather. Four
p. m., moderate wind; smooth sea. Eight p. m., light wind; small
swell; clear weather. Midnight, calm, and smooth sea; clear weather;
ship surrounded by ice.
Senator Smith. Does the log indicate the direction of that wind ?
Mr. Lord. The hour 11 to 12, was calm; no wind at aU. Previous
to that, in the early morning it was west-northwest and north-
northwest; and after noon, until 10 oVJock, it was north.
Senator Smith. Can you give us the temperature of the water and
the air on Sunday between those hours you have just mentioned ?
Mr. Lord. I can give it to you from memory; there is no mention
of it here.
Senator Smith. Xo mention of it in the log ?
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith; Is it customary to record the temperature of the
air and water in the log ?
Mr. Lord. Not in our log book.
Senator Smith. Can you give it to me from memory?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. Please do so.
Mr. Lord. At half past 10 it was 27 — ^the water at night; the air
was 30.
Senator Smith. Did that indicate, in your mind, anything in par-
ticular? I mean by that, did it indicate in itself the presence of
ice?
Mr. Lord. I was surrounded by ice.
Senator Smith. Or proximity to ice? I understand; but I want
to know whether the temperature of the water and air indicates
proximity to ice at this time of the year in the North Atlantic Ocean t
<^ .^,». ^»,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 6S9
Mr. Lord. I suppose it would, if you were close enough. But in
the Arctic current you always get cold water, even if there is not any
ice. I always take the temperature of the water in a fog about every
5 or 10 minutes, if we are anywhere near the ice track. But, still,
if we got the Artie current, we would have very cold water, but if
i«re got within half a mile of an iceberg, I suppose it would not drop
more than another degree or two degrees.
Senator Smith. Will you tell the committee how you determine
for yourself proximity to ice, or icebergs ?
ilr. Lord. In clear weather, sir ?
Senator Smith. Yes; that is, you mean day?
Mr. Lord. Day or night.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. With my own eyesight.
Senator Smith. In the day ?
Mr. Lord. Or night.
Senator Smith. Are there any tests or precautions that may be
taken, other than by vision, to determine proximity to ice?
Mr. Lord. Not in clear weather.
Senator Smith. How about foggy weather?
Mr. Lord. I have not a great deal of experience in ice. This is
my first experience amongst an ice field. Previous to this I have
seen small oergs, in the North Atlantic, only. I have seen any
amount of it around Cape Horn, but that was when I was in a sailing
ship.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard of the steam whistle being
used for the purpose of detecting proximity to ice ?
Mr. Ix)rd. By the echo ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. I have read of it, but I have never heard of anyone
doing it.
Senator Smith. And you have never tried it yourself?
Mr. Ix)RD. No.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard of the natural explosions of
icebergs, which, in themselves, might constitute a warning?
Mr. Lord. Yes; I think I have heard about ice breaking adrift.
Senator Smith. Have you ever experienced such a thing?
Mr. Lord. No; I have had verj' little experience with ice.
Senator Smith. Would glasses m the hands of the lookout be of any
assistance in determining proximity to ice ?
Mr. Lord. No, I should not tKink so. I would never think of
giving a man in the lookout a pair of glasses.
Senator Smith. And have never done so?
Mr.' Ix)RD. I did, once. I do not think I will ever again.
Senator Smith. When did you do it?
Mr. Lord. The morniiig I was looking for the Titanic, I gave a pair
to the lookout. I pulled a man up to the main truck in a coal basket
when I heard of it, so he would have a good view around, and gave
him a pair of glasses.
Senator Smith. Let us understand each other. That was at the
lime when you were increasing your vigilance ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And when you had sent an additional lookout to
the crow's nest ?
690 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. LoKD. No; I pulled him up to the main truck, which is about
30 feet higher than the crow's nest; pulled him up in a coal basket.
Senator Smith. When you did that, you gave nim gl^ses ?
Mr. Lord. Gave him glasses.
Senator Smith. Of course, that was in daylight ?
Mr. Lord. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. And that is the only time you ever used glasses
in the crow's nest t
Mr. Lord. The first time I ever heard of it.
P Senator Smith. Let me ask, where did you get these glasses that
you gave to that extra lookout that morning ?
Mr. Lord. I took them off the bridge; a spare pair that were on
the bridge.
Senator Smith. You have glasses on the bridge for your own use ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. And yet you have no glasses in the crow's nest for
the use of the lookout ?
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know what vision tests are made of the
lookout men before they are placed in position ?
Mr. Lord. No; I believe the doctors who examine them before
they are allowed to sign articles test their eyesight. I do not know;
I have never'been there when their examination was going on.
Senator Smith. You would riot think it desirable to employ a look-
out whose vision was impaired, would you ?
Mr. Lord. If we found a man who could not see very well, we would
not let him go on the lookout. We very soon find that out.
Senator Smith. His position on the masthead is supposed to be the
best point for observation on the ship, is it not ?
Mr. Lord. Well, in clear weather it is.
Senator Smith. If you had received the C. Q. D. call of distress
from the Titanic Sunday evening after your communication with the
Titanic f how long, under the conmtions which surrounded you, would it
aave taken you to have reached the scene of that catastrophe ?
Mr. Lord. At the very least, two hours.
Senator Smith. Two hours ?
Mr. Lord. At the very least, the way the ice was packed around us,
and it being nighttime.
Senator Smith. Do you know how long it took for the CarwUhia
to reach the scene of the accident from the time the C. Q. D. call was
received by Capt. Rostron?
Mr. Lord. Only from what I have read in the paper.
Senator Smith. You have no knowledge of your own on that ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Capt. Rostron told you nothing?
Mr. Lord. Oh, no. I asked him the particulars of the accident;
that was all.
Senator Smith. It took the Carpathia about four hours to reach the
scene of the Titanic' 8 accident, after they received word.
Mr. Lord. So I understand.
Senator Smith. Do you know from your log, or from any other
source that you deem accurate, the position of the Carpathia when she
received the C. Q. D. call ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
a „ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER, 691
Senator Smith. You were about 20 miles away ?
Mr. Lord. Nineteen and one-half to twenty miles from the position
given me by the Titanic.
Senator Smith. At the hour the Titanic sank.
Mr. Lord. We were 194 to 20 miles away.
Senator Smith. And the Carpathia was 53 miles away ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
^ Senator Smith. How long after the Carpaihia reached the scene of
this accident did you reach the scene ?
Mr. Lord. Well, I don't know what time we got there.
Senator Smith. Had the lifeboats, with their passengers, been
picked up and taken aboard the Carpathiaf
Mr. Lord. I think he was taking the last boat up when I got there.
Senator Smith. Did you see any of the wreckage when you got
there ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee what vou saw ?
Mr. Lord. I saw several empty boats, some floating planks, a few
deck chairs, and cushions; but considering the size of the disaster,
there was very little wreckage. It seemed more like an old fishing
boat that had sunk.
Senator Smith. Did you see any life preservers ?
Mr. Lord. A few life belts floating around.
Senator Smith. Did you see any persons, dead or alive ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did you remain in the vicinity of the
wreck ?
Mr. Lord (looking at the log). Eleven twenty we proceeded on our
course.
Senator Smith. And you reached there at what hour?
Mr. Ix)RD. At 8.30, sir.
Senator Smith. During that time what did you do ?
Mr. Lord. I talked to the Carpathia until 9 o'clock. Then he left.
Then we went full speed in circles over a radius — that is, I took a big
circle and then came around and around and got back to the boats
again, where I had left them.
Senator Smith. That was all you saw ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What you have described is all you saw ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I will ask vou whether you saw any icebergs while
you were making that circle '?
Mr. Lord. I was practically surrounded by icebergs.
Senator Smith. How large were they ?
Mr. Lord. The ones way 'to the southeast were much larger than
the ones to the westward.
Senator Smith. How large was the largest, in your judgment, above
the water 1
Mr. Lord. I suppose the largest was about 150 feet — 100 to 150
feet.
Senator Smith. No one has described the length or width of any of
these icebergs that were seen about the place of this wreck. I do not
know how accurately you could give us this information, but you say
that one was approximately 100 feet high?
692 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Lord. That is, the farthest away, the most easterly ones, the
largest ones. The ones to the westward were not very Ixign, and they
were mixed up with field ice.
Senator Smith. How high was that iceberg above water ?
Mr. Lord. The big one I am speaking of ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. I suppose about 100 feet.
Senator Smith. How wide was it ?
Mr. Lord. I would not like to say tlie width. I could give you an
approximate idea of the width.
Senator Smith. That was all I asked.
Mr. Lord. 700 or 800 feet, it seemed to be. It was a long way off.
That seemed to be the biggest one.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen the Tiianicf
Mr. Ix)RD. Never.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen the Olympic f
Mr. Ix)RD. Only at a distance; about 5 miles away.
Senator Smith. How much larger than the Olympic would that
iceberg be; have you any idea?
Mr. ijORD. No, sir.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, it would be larger than the
Titanic if it was as large as you suggest, would it not ?
Mr. Lord. I do not know the length of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. How long was the Tiianic, Mr. Franklin ?
Mr. Franklin. 882^ feet.
Senator Smith. And it was 70 feet above the water ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; and 92 feet beam.
Senator Smith. The Titanic was 70 feet above the water and 882 J
feet long. Now, from what you know of an iceberg in the north
Atlantic, or any place else, what proportion of the iceberg is sub-
merged and what proportion out or the water ?
ilr. Ix)RD. I only tell you what I saw that morning when we were
at the mouth of the field. They were not really ben^s, but they w^ere
big chunks of ice, and I suppose they were about 2 leet above water,
when we were driving along toward the Titanic, and we would prob-
ably get to the corner of one of them and turn it over, and probably
see about 10 or 11 feet to it, and I could not see any end to it.
Senator Smith. From your observation or study as a mariner,
familiar with the sea, do you know of any rule by which you may
determine the proportion of an iceberg unaer water ?
Mr. Lord. >fo. I have always heard it was seven-eighths, but
I do not know any rule.
Senator Smith. That is, if 100 feet of an iceberg protruded above
the water, there would be 700 feet of the same iceberg below the
surface of the water?
Mr. Ix)RD. So I understand; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. My colleague suggests that I qualify that question
a trifle by adding '*in bulk,'' which I will do, in order to be
accurate. What was the color of this largest iceberg, as you saw^ it
on Monday morning ?
Mr. Lord. It looked to me to be white from where we were. Of
course, the sun was shining on it then.
Senator Smith. Do they usually show white when the sun shines
on them ?
4< . ^ ^ fJ
TITANIC DISASTER. 693
Mr. Ix)RD. When the sun shines on them they show white, usually;
ves.
Senator Smith. Do they at any time show black ?
Mr. Lord. I suppose they would at night; not exactly black, but
a grayish, a less distinguishable color than white.
Senator Smith. Blue ?
Mr. Lord. I should imagine it would be gray when the sun was not
shining on them.
Senator Smith. I do not want to seem to be impertinent, Captain,
and hope you will not so regard it, but the question arose this morn-
ing as to whether there had been any attempt on the part of anyone
to prevent you from responding to tne Senate's request ?
• Mr. Lord. I do not tnink so. I applied for permission as soon as
the marshal served me with the notice. I applied to the local
manager for permission, or rather the assistant local manager. I
could not get the manager. He said he would inquire from the
manager. That is all I know about it.
Senator Smith. The Califomian, of which you are commander,
belongs to what line ?
Mr. Ix)RD. The I^eyland Line.
Senator Smith. The Leyland Line is a member or part of the
International Mercantile Marine Co., is it not?
Mr. Lord. I believe it is; yes.
Senator Smith. And is represented in this country by Mr. Franklin ?
Mr. Lord. So I understand; yes.
Senator Smith. And in England by Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. IjOrd. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Captain, during Sunday, when you were in the
vicinity of ice, did you give any special instructions to your wireless
operator ?
Capt. Lord. No, air.
Senator Smith. Are there any rides and regulations prescribing the
conduct of the wireless operator or operators on your snip ?
Mr. Lord. No; they are kept amenable to the disciplme, just like
the rest of the crew are.
Senator Smith. Do you recognize them as subordinate to your
wishes while they are at sea ?
Mr. IjORD. To a certain extent I do; yes.
Senator Smith. Do you recognize their responsibility to the Mar-
coni Co. ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. So their responsibility is divided, somewhat?
^Ir. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. You had but one operator, had you ?
Mr. Lord. That is all.
Senator Smith. And what was his name ?
Mr. Lord. Mr. Evans.
Senator Smith. Is he here with you ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir; this is he [indicating].
Senator Smith. Do you know whether your wireless operator w^
on duty Sunday night after you sent this warning message to the
THanicf
Mr. Lord. I do not think he was.
Senator Smith. You do not think he was on duty i
694 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith. Then you are unable to say whether an attempt was
made to communicate with the Califomianf
Mr. Lord. No; I do not know as to that. I went past his room at
about a quarter to 12, and there was no light in there?
Senator Smith. Does that indicate he was out, or asleep ?
Mr. Lord. That would indicate he was asleep. As a rule there is
always a light in the accumulator burning when he is not asleep.
Senator Smith. Did he have any hours particularly prescribed for
him hj yourself or anyone else after you became aware of your
proximity to ice 1
Mr. Lord. No. ^
Senator Smith. On Sunday ?
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith. Suppose your wireless operator had been at his
post in the operating room when the C. O. D. call of distress came out
from the TitaniCy which was received by the Carpaihia and other ships,
would your ship have been apprised of the distress of the Titanic?
I mean, have you such a wireless apparatus on that ship as would
have in all probability caught this message ?
Mr. Lord. If the operator had been on duty ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. Most certainly.
Senator Smith. What has been the custom on your ship with
reference to wireless service ? Do you profess or undertake to have
the operator on duty during the daytime or in the night ?
Mr. Lord. I have never interfered with them.
Senator Smith. In anv wav?
Mr. Lord. From what I have seen Af him, he is generally around
until about 10 o'clock in the morning, and next day gives me reports
of things that happen after midnight, very frequently.
Senator Smith. If you were to have the service of a wireless
operator at a time when he might be of most service, when would it be,
ordinarily, day or night %
Mr. Lord. As it happens, there are so many one-operator ships
around that at nighttime most of those fellows are asleep; and ne
would be more useful in the daytime. We would get a great deal
more information in the daytime, as it happens now.
Senator Smith. But at night your passengers are also asleep ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Would it not be well to have your wireless operator
at his post on duty at night, when other eyes are closed, in oroer that
any possible signal of distress might not escape your attention ?
Mr. Lord. We have the officer on the bridge, who can see as far at
night as in the daytime.
Senator Smith. But the officer on the bridge could not see the
Titanic even with glasses, you said, that night.
Mr. Lord. No.
Senator Smith. The wireless operator could have heard the call
from the Titanic if he had been at nis post of duty ?
Mr. Lord. Yes ; he would have heard that.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the wireless service works
more satisfactorily at night than it does in the daytime, and with
greater accuracy ?
f€ ..^™.^.,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBB, 696
Mr. Lord. I believe it gets a longer range. I do not know that
there is any more accuracy, but you can reach farther.
Senator Smith. Do any of the other Senators desire to ask any
questions ?
Senator Bourne. I simply want to ask, Captain, whether the wire-
less operator had any regular hours or not ? If so, what were they %
Mr. Lord. No; I do not think there are any regular hours. I
understand they are usually around from 7 in the morning to half-
past 2, and then I think they lie down, because I never, as a rule,
receive any messages between half-past 2 ajid 4. I presume they
are asleep.
Senator Bourne. You think it is better to have two operators on
every ship, do you, so as to have continuous service ?
Mr. Lord. It would be much nicer. You would never miss a
message, then.
Senator Bourne. I understood you to say nobody attempted to
prevent your responding to the Senate subpoena — none of the people
with whom you are connected, or your company ?
Mr. Lord. No. As soon as the marshal came to me — he came
about half'past 7 last night — I told him I did not Uke to go without
notifying — at least I told him I would not go until my owners gave
me permission. We went to the telephone together, and I told the
assistant manager what had happened. He said, '^All right, I will
notify Mr. Thomas. Keep handy and I wiU let you know the result.*'
It was a question of whether or not they would allow me. I do
not know what the discussion was. He did not sav, "You are not
to go.'*
Senator Bourne. There was no objection made on the part of
anybody ?
ilr. Lord. Not to me; no.
Senator Bourne. Or your company ?
Mr. Lord. He said, '^Just stay around handy to the telephone until
I get hold of Mr. Thomas.'^ That is all he said.
Senator Perkins. What was the response? Did you get any
further response ?
Mr. Lord. Yes; he told me to hurry up and go.
Senator Burton. On that Sunday night, when you were stopped by
the ice, were you hemmed in by it, or was your ship floating about t
Mr. Lord. We were just floating about.
Senator Burton. You spoke wiUi reference to the use of glasses by
the lookout men in the crow's nest ?
Mr. Ix>RD. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. What is your opinion in regard to that ?
Mr. Lord. I do not see any necessity for it.
Senator Burton. Why not ?
Mr. Lord. A light is visible a great deal farther from the crow's
nest than it is from the bridge. With two men of equal eyesight and
range of vision^ the man in the crow's nest would see farther than the
man on the bridge. Once he reports that light, it has nothing to do
with him what it is afterwards.
Senator Burton. But as regards objects ahead ?
Mr. Lord. The officer on the bridge can see the objects far enough.
I very rarely hear a man in the lookout report a light before the man
on the bridge has seen it.
696 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Bourne. The object is not merely to descry light, but to
see any obstacle in the passage of the ship ? "
Mr. Lord. Yes; but I do not use glasses.
Senator Perkins. You have never used them?
Mr. Lord. Only in that case of the Titanic. The men did not see
anything that day quicker than from the bridge.
Senator Burton. That is all.
Senator Fletcher. You were asked by Senator Smith a moment
ago whether, if the wireless operator on the Califomian had been on
duty, he would have picked up this message from the Titanic giving
the alarm ?
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Could you have gone to the reUef of the Titanic
at that time ?
Mr. Lord. Most certainly.
Senator Fletcher. You could have gone?
Mr. Lord. We could have gone; yes.
Senator Fletcher. The engines were not running then.
Mr. Lord. The engines were stopped; perfectly stopped.
Senator Fletcher. But you could have gone to the Titanic?
Mr. Ix)RD. The engines were readv. I gave instructions to the
chief engineer, and told him I had decided to stay there all night.
I did not tliink it safe to go ahead.
I said, **We will keep handy in case some of these big fellows come
crimcliing along and get into it.''
Senator Fletcher. Did you keep lookout men on duty after your
engines were stopped ?
Mr. Lord. A man on the lookout; only one, the man in the crow's
nest.
Senator Fletcher. On that Sunday night, the 14th of April, one
man was relieved and the other was kept on duty ?
Mr. Lord. We discontinued the one on the forecastle head. We
just kept the one on the crow's nest.
Senator Smith. Captain, did you see any distress signals on Sun-
day night, either rockets or the Morse signals ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir; I did not. The officer on watch saw some
signals, but he said they were not distress signals.
Senator Smith. They were not distress signals ?
Mr. Lord. Not distress signals.
Senator Smith. But he reported them ?
Mr. Lord. To me. I think you had better let me tell you that
story.
Senator Smith. I wish you would.
Mr. Lord. When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed
out to the officer that I thought I saw a fight coming along, ana it was
a most peculiar light, and we had been making mistakes all along with
the stars, thinking they were signals. We comd not distinguish where
the sky ended and where the water commenced. You understand, it
was a flat calm. He said he thought it was a star, and I did not say
anything more. I went down below. I was talking with the engineer
about keeping the steam ready, and we saw these signals coming along,
and I said, ''There is a steamer coining. Let us go to the wireless and
see what the news is.'* But on our way down I met the operator com-
ing, and I said, ''Do you know anything?" He said, "The Titanic,^'
i< »•. . ^-»« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 697
So, then, I gave him instructions to let the Titanic know. I said,
^'This is not the Titanic; there is no doubt about it." She came and
lay, at half past 11, alongside of us until, I suppose, a quarter past 1,
within 4 miles of us. We could see everything on her quite distmctly ;
sec her lights. We signaled her, at half past 1 1 , with the Morse lamp.
She did not take the sughtest notice of it. That was between half past
1 1 and 20 minutes to 12. We signaled her again at 10 minutes past 12.
half past 12, a quarter to 1, anal o'clock. We have a very powerful
Morse lamp. I suppose you can see that about 10 miles, and she was
about 4 miles off, and she did not take the sUghtest notice of it. \^ hen
the second officer came on the bridge, at 12 oVJock, or 10 minutes pJist
12,1 told him to watch that steamer, which was stopped, and I pointed
out the ice to him; told him we were surrounded by ice; to watch the
steamer that she did not get any closer to her. At 20 minutes to 1
I whistled up the speaking tube and asked him if she was getting any
nearer. He said, '*No; she is not taking any notice of us." So, I
said, *'I will go and he down a bit." At a quarter past 1 he said, '^I
tliink slie has fired a rocket." He said, "She did not answer the Morse
lamp and she has commenced to go away from us." I said, 'X^all her
up and let me know at once what her name is." So, he put the whistle
back, and, apparently, he was caUing. I could hear him ticking over
my head. Then I went to sleep.
Senator Smith. You heard nothing more about it ?
Mr. Lord. Nothing more until about something between then and
half past 4, I have a faint recollection of the apprentice opening iny
room door; opening it and shutting it. I said. "What is it?" H^
did not answer and I went to sleep a^ain. I oelieve the boy came
down to deliver me the message that this steamer had steamed away
from us to the southwest, showing several of these flashes or white
rockets; steamed away to the southwest.
Senator Smith. Captain, these Morse signals are a sort of language
or method by which ships speak to one another ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir; at night.
Senator Smith. The rockets that are used are for the same purpose
and are understood^ are they not, among mariners ?
. Mr. Lord. As being distress rockets ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. Oh, yes; you never mistake a distress rocket.
Senator Smith. Suppose the Morse signals and the rockets were
displayed and explooed on the Titanic continuously for a half to
three-quarters of an hour after she struck ice, would you, from the
position of your ship on a night like Sunday night, have been able to
see those signals ?
Mr. Lord. From the positions she was supposed to have been in }
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Lord. We could not have seen her Morse code; that is an utter
impossibilitv.
Senator Smith. Could you have seen rockets ? •
Mr. Lord. I do not think so. Nineteen and a half miles is a long
ways. It would have been way down on the horizon. It might have
been mistaken for a shooting star or anything at all.
Senator Smith. Did you see anything of the Amerika during that
voyage ?
Mr. Lord. No.
698 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. Did you see anything of the Frankfurtt
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. Where and when ?
Mr. Lord. I met him 5 or 10 minutes past 12, after I was leaving
the TitaniCj the scene of the disaster. He was running along paralld
with the ice, apparently trying to find an opening, and he saw me
coming through, and he headed for the place I was coming out, and
as we came out he went in. He went through the same place toward
the scene of the disaster.
Senator Smith. Where was the Frankfurt headed ?
Mr. Lord. He was running about soutn-southeast, when I saw him,
coming away from the northwest.
Senator Smith. For what port ?
Mr. Lord. I saw in the papers since, he had arrived in Breton
Harbor. I did not know then.
Senator Smith. Had you any means of fixing his position at any
time between 10 and 12 o'clock Sunday night?
Mr. Lord. Oh, no; none whatever.
Senator SMrrn. Or between 10 o'clock Sunday night and 2 o'clock
Monday morning ?
Mr. Lord. None whatever.
Senator Smith. Do you know the captain of the Frankfurtt
Mr. Lord. I never met him.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether you
have ever exchanged wireless messages with the Frankfurtt
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir, we did; on the morning of this disaster, or the
the morning after the disaster.
Senator Smith. Where were you at that time ?
.Mr. Lord. We were stopped in this position I have given you.
Senator Smith. At the scene of the wreck %
Mr. Lord. Yes.
Senator Smith. And where, with reference t-o distance or longi-
tude and latitude, was the FrarJcfurtt
Mr. Lord. I do not know; he aid not give us his position.
Senator Smith. What hour was this ?
Mr. Lord. I suppose shortly after 5.
Senator Smith, in the morning?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Sunday morning?
Mr. Lord. No, Monday morning; the day after the accident.
Senator Smith, And what did he say ?
Mr. Lord. I think the first message we got was, "Ship sunk."
But I understand between the German and EngUsh operators they do
not always grasp one another's messages; there is a Uttle confusion
about it. Apparently we did not get it. The first report I got to the
bridge that morning, after I had sent down and had the operator
called, the chief officer came back and said, "He reports a ship sunk."
I said, "Go back and wait until you find out what it is. Get some
news about it." So he went bacK, and I suppose 10 minutes after-
wards he came back and said, "The Titanic is sunk, and hit an ice-
berg."
Senator Smith. This wireless operator told you ?
Mr. Lord. No; he did not tell me. The cnief officer was deliv-
ering the message. I was on the bridge, and he was running back-
{ ( ^^
TITANIC DISASTER. 699
ward and forward to the operating room. I said, *'Go back again
and find the position as quickly as possible/' So he went back, and
"" " bit
not
marked
off the position from the course given me by the FranJciurt in the
message just from one operator to another. I marked tnat off and
headea the ship down there.
Senator Smith. Will you kindlv give it to us ?
Mr. Lord. I gave it to you earlier.
Senator Smith. That was your position ?
Mr. Lord. That was the position of the Titanic given by the
Frankfurt.
Senator Smith. I recall that. I thought you said you had the
position of the Franlcfurt?
Mr. LpRD. No, sir; he gave me the position of the Titanic disaster.
Senator Smith. Was that the first information you got of the
sinking of the Titanic?
Mr. Lord. That was the first information.
Senator Smith. You received it from the North German-Lloyd
boat Franlcfurt?
Mr. Lord. The Franlcfurt,
Senator Smith. And that was about 5 ?
Mr. Lord. Shortly after 5; between 5 and half past.
Senator Smith. Monday morning ?
Mr. Lord. Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Did you have any further communication between
your ship and the Franlcfurt until you met later in the day ?
Mr. Lord. I do not tmnk so. A& we were trying to get official news
from the Franlcfurt the Virginian chipped in, and he gave me this
message, which I will read to you.
Senator Smith. Give the date.
Mr. Lord. There is no date on it. There was great excitement
then and no date was put on.
Senator Smith. Give the time of the. day.
Mr. Lord. 4.10 a. m., New York time.
Senator Smith. Can you tell where it was received ?
Mr. Lord. No ; it was given right away.
Senator Smith. I understand, but was it received Monday or Sun-
day night?
Mr. Lord. Well, there is nothing on it at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect %
Mr. Lord. I remember perfectly well, at 6 o^clock; here it is in
the log book :
Six o'clock, received message re Titanic,
This is from the Virginian.
(*aptain —
It does not say what ship —
Tttonic struck berg; wants assistance; urgent; ship sinking; passengers in boats.
His position 41° 46^ longitude 40° 15^
Campbell, Commander.
40475— PT 8—12 4
700 TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. You heard nothing further from that source ?
Mr. Lord. From the Virginian?
I had a message about an hour and a half after. He said, **When
you get to the scene of disaster will you please give me particulars of
what is happening V
Senator Smith. Do you know, or does your log show, or are you
able to determine from your chart, the depth of the water where the
Titanic sank ?
Mr. Lord. Well, I see it is approximately 2,000 fathoms, which
would be 12,000 feet.
Senator Fletcher. Let me ask you a question with reference to
that steamer you saw 4 miles away. What was her position in
reference to your ship
Air. Lord. Pretty near south of us, 4 miles to the south.
Senator Fletcher (continuing). As to being on the starboard or
port side. •
Mr. Lord. Well, on our ordinary course, our ordinary course was
about west, true; but on seeing the ice, we were so close we had
to reverse the engine and put her full speed astern, and the action
of reversing turned the ship to starboard, and we were heading
about northeast true. When this man was coming along he was
showing his green light on our starboard side, before midnight. After
midnight we slowly blew around and showed him our red light.
Senator Fletcher. And he passed southwest ?
Mr. Lord. He was stopped until 1 o'clock, and then he started
going ahead again; and tne second officer reported he changed from
south-southeast to west-southwest, 6i points; and if he was 4 miles
off, the distance he traveled I estimated to be 7 or 7i miles in that
hour.
Senator Fletcher. Was he ever any closer to you ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were you able to tell what kind of a ship it was ?
Mr. Lord. The officer on watch, and the apprentice there, and my-
self— I saw it before 1 o'clock, before I went to the watch room — were
of the opinion that it was an ordinary cargo steamer.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the funnels ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir. It had one masthead light and a green light,
which I saw first.
Senator Fletcher. You could not hear any escaping steam, or the
siren, or the whistle ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You have two men on duty in the crow's nest,
but only one on duty at a time 1
Mr. Lord. No; we never have two in the crow's nest. When we
double the lookout we have one man on the forecastle head. That is
right up in the bow of the ship.
Senator Bourne. What is tne tonnage of the Calijomianf
Mr. Lord. Four thousand and thirty-eight, sir.
Senator Boltine. She has accommodations for how many passen-
gers?
Mr. Lord. Accommodations for 47.
Senator Bourne. Do you have a regular boat drill on your vessel ?
Mr. Lord. Once a passage.
Senator Bourne. After you leave the dock ?
ti ..^^.^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 701
Mr. LoBD. After we leave port.
Senator Boubne. Only one ?
Mr. Lord. Well, you see we are only 13 days on a passage.
Senator Fletcher. You mean the net tonnage ?
Mr. Lord. The net tonnage is 4,038.
Senator Fletcher. And what is the gross tonnage ?
Mr. Lord. Six thousand two hundr^ and thirty-three.
Senator Smith. Senator Fletcher asked you regarding this ship that
stopped you on Sunday night ?
Mr. Lord. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have ^ou any idea what steamer that was ?
Mr. Lord. Not the famtest. At dayUeht we saw a yellow-funnel
steamer on the southwest of us, beyond where this man had left,
about 8 miles away.
Senator Fletcher. Do you suppose that was the same one ?
Mr. Lord. I should not like to say. I don't think so, because this
one had only one masthead li^ht that we saw at half past 11.
Senator Smith. From the log which you hold in your hand, and
from your own knowledge^ is there anything you can say further
which will assist the committee in its inquiry as to the causes of this
catastrophe ?
Mr. Lord. No, sir; there is nothing; only that it was a very de-
ceiving night. That is all that I can say about that. I only saw that
ice a mile and a half off.
TESTIHOKT OF CTBIL FUBMSTOHE EVAHS.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside?
Mr. Evans. Seaforth, Liverpool.
Senator Smith. How old are vou ?
Mr. Evans. Twenty years old, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Evans. Wireless operator on the Califomian, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you been a wireless operator?
Mr. Evans. Just over six months.
Senator Smith. Have you had any special training in that field ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What ?
Mr. Evans. I had 10 months at the Marconi school, the same school
as Bride, the junior operator on the Titanic.
Senator Smith. What other ships than the Califomian have you
ever been employed on ?
Mr. Evans. On the CedriCj sir; the White Star boat.
Senator Smith. Any others ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir-
Senator Smith. How long were you on the Cedricf
Mr. Evans. One trip, sir.
Senator Smith. When was that made?
Mr. Evans. I don't know exactly, sir. I have had three trips on
the Califomian.
Senator Smith. You have been on the Califomian ever since you
left the Cedricf
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
702 " TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Where were you Sunday, April 14?
Mr. Evans. From 7 o'clock in the morning until half past 8 I was
on duty. From half past 8 to 9 I was having my brealaast. From
9 o'clock to half past 12 1 was on watch. From 1 o'clock to 3 o'clock
I was on watch. From 3 o'clock to half past 5. At haK past 5 I
had my dinner. From 6 o'clock I was on watch. I was on watch
until 5 and 20 minutes past 11. I heard the Titanic working. I put
down the phones and I turned in.
Senator Smith. What time did you receive the C. Q. D. call from the
Titanic Sunday night ?
Mr. Evans. I did not receive it, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not receive it at all ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Wliat time did you communicate with the Titanic?
Mr Evans. In the afternoon, sur. I was sending a message to the
Antillian, of our line. I was sending an ice report, handed in by the
skipper, sir. I was sending to the AntiUianj and the Titanic called
me up and we exchanged signals, exchanged an official T R. We
call it a T R when a ship gets in communication with another. I
said, *'Here is a message; an ice report." He said, **It's all right,
old man," he said. '^I heard you send to the AniillianJ^ He said,
''Bi." That is an expression used among ourselves.
Senator Smith. What does it mean ?
Mr. Evans. It is an expression used. It means to say ^'enough,''
^'finished."
Senator Smith. Through ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Does it mean good-by ?
Mr. Evans No; it does not mean good-by.
Senator Smith Do you know with what operator you were com-
municating on the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether it was Phillips or Bride ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I do not know who was on watch.
Senator Smith. Bride had been in school with you ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir. I do not know who was on the Titanic^
though.
Senator Smith. And did you know Phillips ?
Mr. Evans. I had met Phillips in the London office.
Senator Smith. You do not recall which one it was you spoke with
that night ?
Mr. Evans. You never know who is on watch unless the operator
is inclined to talk and tell you his name. Then you get to know the
name of the personoperating at the other end.
Senator Smxth. When that message was sent by you, do you recall
the time, exactly ?
Mr. Evans [consulting memorandum]. It was sent at 5.30 p. m..
New York time, on the 10th of April, sir. I worked New York time.
Senator Smith. What did the message say ?
Mr. Evans. 1 have the message here, sir, but I have not had
authority from my company to disclose it.
Senator Smith. Well, I think you may disclose it with perfect
propriety. It was our understanding with Mr. Marconi that this
information would be obtained. Are you a Marconi operator ?
(t . ^ ^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 703
Mr. EvAXS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If you are willing to disclose it, with that assurance.
I will be glad to have you read it.
Mr. Evans. It is a master service message, handed in on the 14th
of April from the Caiifornian to ** Captain ArUiUian,^'
It is dated 6.30 p. m. *' A. T. S.'' which means apparent time ship.
Latitude 42 3 north, longitude 49 9 west. Three large bergs 5 miles to southward
of us. Regards. (Sig.) Lord.
Senator Smith. I would like to know the date ?
Mr. Evans. I said it was handed in on the 14th, sir.
Senator Smfth. Sxmday, the 14th?
Mr. Evans. Handed in, and sent the same day.
Senator Smfth. And is the hour given ?
Mr. Evans. The sent date was 5.35 p. m., New York time.
Senator Smith. When did you next communicate with the Titanic
and what was the message you sent or received ?
Mr. Evans. 9.05 New York time, sir.
Senator Smith. What day ?
Mr. Evans. On the 14th, sir, the same evening, New York time,
that is. I went outside of my room just before that, about five
minutes before that and we were stopped, and I went to the captain
and I asked him if there was anytmng the matter. The captain
told me he was going to stop because of the ice, and the captain
asked me if I had any ooats, and I said the Titanic. He said ''Better
advise him we are surrounded by ice and stopped.'' So I went to
my cabin, and at 9.05 New York time I called nun up. I said ''Say,
ola man, we are stopped and surrounded by ice." He turned around
and said "Shut up, shut up, I am busy; 1 am working Cape Race,"
and at that I jammed him.
Senator Smith. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Evans. By jamming we mean when somebody ia sending a
message to somebody else and you start to send at the same time,
you jam him. He does not get his message. I was stronger than
Cape Race. Therefore my signals came in with a bang, and he could
read me and he could not read Cape Race.
Senator Smith. Was that the last time you heard from the Titanic
that night ?
Mr. Evans. The last time I exchanged signals with them? I
heard them working at 11.25.
Senator Smith. Heard him working?
Mr. Evans. Working Cape Race. He was still working Cape
Race, sending messages.
Senator Smith. That was at what time ?
Mr. Evans. 11.25 Sunday night.
Senator Smith. That was 15 minutes before the Titanic struck the
iceberg, or was that New York time?
Mr. Evans. That was 11.25 ship's time.
Senator Smith. After you jammed him, as you say, you heard
nothing further from him direct ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You picked up some wireless messages from him
that were directed to Cape Race ?
Mr. Evans. I had the phone on my ear, and heard him sending,
but I did not take them down.
704 '' TITAlffIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. You had the phones on your ears ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you heard him sending those messages ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you did not take them down ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What were those messages that you heard, as
nearly as you can recollect.
Mr. Evans. They were private messages.
Senator Smith. Can you recollect what they were ?
Mr. Evans. You mean did I read these messages ?
Senator Smith. Could you read them, or can you remember them ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you got them ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Then you are unable to furnish the committee with
the contents of those private messages from the Titanic to the Cape
Race station ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether they had any reference to
ic«?
Mr. Evans. I have no recollection, sir. I generally keep my ears
open for anything about ice, if I hear anything about ice, and always
take it down — ice or derelicts. I always take it down. I would not
be positive I did not hear anything a^out ice, but I do not recollect
anything.
. Senator Smith. What time did you retire that night.
Mr. Evans. At 11.25 I still had the phones on my ears and heard
him still working Cape Race, about two or three minutes before the
half hour ship's time, that was, and at 11.35 I put the phones down
and took off my clothes and turned in.
Senator Smith. When were you awakened ?
Mr. Evans. About 3.30 a. m., New York time.
Senator Smith. And who awakened you ?
Mr. Evans. The chief officer.
Senator Smith. W^hat did he say to you ?
Mr. Evans. He said, '* There is a ship that has been firing rockets
in the night. Please see if there is anything the matter.*'
Senator Smith. What ship's officer was tnat ?
Mr. Evans. The cliief officer of our ship, Mr. Stewart.
Senator Smith. He said rockets had been fired during the night ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he would like to have you see if there was
anything the matter?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. Evans. I jumped out of bed, slipped on a pair of trousers and
a pair of slippers, and I went at once to my key and started my
motor and gave ^'C. Q." About a second later I was answered by
the Frankfurt, "D. K. D., Dft." The "Dft," is the FrankfuH's c«lJ.
He told me the Titanic had sunk.
Senator Smith. He told you the Titanic had sunl^ ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. You went to your operating room i
a , ^^,^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTEB. 705
Mr. Evans. My bunk is in the same room as the apparatus.
Senator Smith. You put the telephone on your head ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And received from the Frankfurt
Mr. Evans (interrupting). I started my motor first, and called.
I called ''C. Q.'' — C. Q. means all stations, some one answer — and
gave my own code sijgnal. The D. F. T. answered me. He said,
**Do you know the Titanic has sunk during the night, collided with
an iceberg?" I said, **No; please give me the latest position." He
gave me tne position. I put the position down on a slip of paper, and
then I said, 'Thanks, old man, to the German operator, and then
the Virginian started to call me, "M. G. M." He started to call me
up, and I told him to go. I answered him and told him to go. He
said, '*Do you know the Titanic had sunk?" I said, '^les, the
Frankfurt just told me." I sent them a message of my own, what we
call a service message, that an operator can always make up if he
wants to find out something. I sent a service message, and said,
'* Please send me official message regarding Titanic, giving position."
Senator Smith. Have you got with you the message you received
from the Frankfurt at 3.40 Monday morning?
Mr. Evans. No, sir ; that was not an official message ; that was only
a conversation. But a few minutes after that I got an official message
from the Virginian,
Senator Smith. I would like any message, if you have it, that you
received from the Frankfurt,
Mr. Evans. No, sir; 1 have none.
Senator Smith. You have none at all ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir. The only thing he gave me was the position
of the Titanic, He did not senu me an official message.
Senator Smith. He gave you more than the position of the Titanic,
lie told you the Titanic had sunk.
Mr. Evans. He simply told me the Titanic had sunk.
Senator Smith. Then he gave you her position ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir. The chief officer was in the room, and I said,
*'Wait a moment; I will get an official message." I got the official
message and the positions were both the same. The position I got
from tne Virginian and the position I got from the Frankfurt were
both the same. I sent that up to the skipper. I did not have time
to date the message. I dated my own copy of the message, but I did
not get the name of the ship on either, or the date, or who it was
addressed to, in my hurry^
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty whatever working
with the Frankfurt operator ?
Mr. Evans. Not then, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you afterwards ?
Mr. Evans. He was jamming a little afterwards, and interfering
when I was trying to get the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. Did the Frankfurt operator say anything to you
about his having received a C. Q. D. call from the Tiianic immedi-
ately after she had struck the iceberg ?
ifr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he say anything to you about having received
a rebuff from the operator of the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
706 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you understand that the operator of the
Titanic, after he had given the Frankfurt the C. Q. D. call, had waited
20 minutes before he had received any reply and then received a
reply from the Frankfurt, asking what was tne matter and that he
then said to the Fran/cfurt ^* You are a fool, keep out?"
Did you hear anything of that kind from the Frankfurt operator ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or from anyone else ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; only from the papers when I got in.
Senator Smith. Did you know the Frankfurfs position when she
gave the message that the Titanic had sunk ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir. He told me he was about 30 or 40 miles oflF.
I remember that. He did not give me the official position, no, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he give you an unofficial position ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. That is, the longitude and latitude?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. But he said he was about 30 or 40 miles off?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How did he happen to say that ?
Mr. Evans. I asked him. I forget how it happened, now, but he
said, **We are 30 or 40 miles oif. We are steaming as fast as we
can.*^ But this was after I had taken the message up, and we were
under way. I said, '*We are steaming full speed, now.*'
Senator Smith. I understand you perfectly. He told you that
after he had told you the Titanic had sunk ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he tell vou from whom he obtained the informa-
tion that the Titanic had sunV ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know from whom he obtained it ?
Mr. Evans. I did not know until I got in, sir. I only knew from
the newspapers and what I said just now.
Senator dmith. Did you tell me what the mate said when he woke
you up between 3 and 4 o'clock Monday morning?
Mr. Evans. He came into my room between 3 and 4; opened the
door. He knocked at the door, but I was alseep, and he came in.
He said he knocked at the door and then came in.
Senator Smith. Was it locked ?
Mr. Evans. No; we never lock a door on the ship. He came
into my room, and I did not wake up, and he caught hold of me.
As soon as he touched me I woke up with a start, and he said, ** Wire-
less, there is a ship that has been firing rockets in the night. Will
you come in and see if you can find out what is wrong — wnat is the
matter ?'' I slipped on my trousers and called at once. Within
five minutes I knew what had happened.
Senator Smith. I believe you had been in communication with the
Carpathia the night before, had you not ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you been in communication with the Parisian?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What time ?
Mr. Evans. I got him in the morning, sir, and then — no; I tliink I
got him the day oefore.
<< .»*».«**^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 707
Senator Smith. I think I will let you look that up a little later
unless you have it handy, there. What time ?
Mr. Evans. 6.30 a. m., New York time, on the 13th of April,
exchanged T. R.'s with the Parisian,
Senator Smith. Do you know her position at that time ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything from the Ameriha on
Sundayl
Mr. Evans. No, sir; not on the 14th.
Senator Smith. I do not want to have you take any time to look
it up, but do you recall having obtained any communication with the
Amerika on Saturday? I will not ask you to trouble yourself. If
you have it right there, I would like to know.
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. You did not have any communication with the
Amerilcaf
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have any with the Amerika after you left
the scene of the Titanic* s wreck ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. You can not now recall ?
Mr. Evans. I can not recall it.
Senator Smith. What are your wages per month ?
Mr. Evans. £4.
Senator Smith. And board ?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. You have j'our board on the ship, and room?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. Is that the regulation wage of >^areless telegraphers ?
Mr. Evans. It is for a beginner; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you paid that by the steamship company or
the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Evans. By the Marconi Co.
Senator Bourne. Did you think it at all strange when you got
**Shut up" from the Titanic or is that customary when you break
in to prevent the jamming?
Mr. Evans. If he was working. lie had a lot of messages to get off.
Senator Bourne. Do you think he got your full message ?
Mr. Evans. His signals came in with a bang; therefore my signals
must have come in to him very loudly.
Senator Bourne. Was he not already engaged in sending to Cape
Race at that time?
Mr. Evans. He was receiving at the time I sent the message, at
the time I communicated with him.
Senator Bourne. Would not his attention be directed toward the
messages he was receiving from Cape Race, he being in communica-
tion with Cape Race, rather than the messages from you, breaking in
on the message ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know about that. He must have received
that anyway.
Senator Bourne. Can you take more than one message at the
same time ?
Mr. Evans. No; but my signals were the loudest.
Senator Bourne. And thev would drown but his ?
708 TITANIC DISA6TEB.
Mr. Evans. You would not hear the other one, because, myself, I
could not hear Cape Race that night.
Senator Burton. You think he must have received your message
before he shut you off, because you had the louder note and would
have drowned out the message from Cape Race while you were trans-
mitting your message ?
Mr. Evans. He must have received my communication; yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You are very sure of that, are you? You are
confident that that must have been the fact — that he received your
message, and that while you were transmitting it the other message
would have been obscured or drowned out by your message ?
Mr. Evans. Certainlv; yes, sir. Cape Race would only be a
whisper and mine would come in \idth a bang.
Senator Burton. Just what was the message that you sent when
you received that word, *'Shut up.'' Will you read that again?
Mr. Evans. I said, '^Say, old man, we are stopped and sur-
rounded by ice."
Senator Burton. That is what you said ?
Mr. Evans. I called him up first. I said, *'MGY'' three times,
and gave him my own call signal once, which is '*MWH.'' I said,
*'Say, old man, we are surrounded by ice, and stopped."
Senator Bourne. You gave your location, did you not ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I was just giving that as a matter of courtesy,
because the captain requested me to.
Senator Bourne. You expected a reply from him, or an inquiry
as to what your location was, where the ice was, did you not ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir. I thought he was very much south of me,
because we were bound for Boston, and we were north of the track.
We were following the track of the Parisian,
Senator Fletcher. You said the Frankfurt reported she was 30
or 40 miles off ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Off from you, or off from the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. Off from the scene of the disaster.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know where the FranJcfurt was, as to
you ?
Mr. Evans. Sou thiBast somewhere. He was on the homeward track
and he must have been south of us.
Senator Fletcher. And the scene of the disaster was in what direc-
tion from you at that time ?
Mr. Evans. I could not exactly say. Between southeast and sou th-
west, I think. I would not be sure of that.
Senator Fletcher. Was the Frankfurt between you and the scene
of the disaster?
Mr. Evans. I do not know, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Have you any idea how far the Frankfurt was
from you ?
Mr. Evans. I can onlv work on that we were about 20 miles away.
Senator Fletcher. From what ?
Mr. Evans. From the Titanic, and therefore he would be 20 miles
away from us.
Senator Fletcher. You say that the operator on the Titanic was
engaged in sending private messages to cape Rice. What do you
mean by private messages ?
it ^ ^ ^ 9 9
TITANIC DI6A6TEB. 709
Mr. Evans. Messages being handed in by passengers.
Senator Fletohbr. By passengers, to Cape Race ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And Cape Race to passengers, back and forth t
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You do not know from whom they were sent,
or to whom they were sent, nor do you recall the nature of the mes-
sages ?
Mr. Evans. No; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. You are not supposed to know, anyhow, are
you ? It would be a violation of the rule if you did know, would it
not?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; because when we go up for our examiration
in England, we have to make a statement saying we will keep the
secrecy of correspondence. That is an international convention.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know Gill, who was a member of the
crew of the Califomian — Ernest Gill ?
Mr. Evans. I think I have seen him; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know him when you see him ? Did } ou
see him on the ship ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; I have seen him.
Senator Fletcher. Did you ever have any conversation with him
about that ship that was seen that night throwing up rockets ?
Mr. Evans. I think so. Practically everj'body on the ship — it has
been common talk on the ship.
Senator Fletcher. From the talk on the ship do you know when
the rockets were seen that right; from what direction ?
Mr. I VANS. No, sir; I had turned in.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know of the conversation, or statement
that was made to Gill, about which he has testified here ?
Mr. LvANs. I do not know, sir. Nearly everybody on the ship has
talked amongst themselves, and in front ol other members of the crew,
about it.
Senator Fletcher. Has he ever said anything to you in reference
to his statement or testimony in the case m this matter ?
Mr. Evans. You mean any special statement he made to me ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes. Has he ever said anvthing to you with
reference to his statement that he has made in this matter ?
Mr. Evans. No; I do not think so.
Senator Fletcher. Nothing with regard to the circiunstances under
which he made the statement, or how he came to make it ?
Mr. Evans. No.
Senator Fletcher. Was the instrument on the Califomian in good
working condition ?
Mr. Evans. It is the latest set out. It is in thorough workmg
condition. It was inspected by Mr. Binns, last trip.
Senator Fletcher. How far can vou send messages with it ?
What is its power as compared with tne one on the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. The Califomian is not a big ship and she is only fitted
with 60-volt dynamos, and our sets are made for 100-volt dynamos.
Our converter — ^motor generator — is not made to run over 100 volts.
Therefore, I get a little over half the power I should get.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know about the instrument on the
Titanic?
710 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Evans. It was practically the same pattern as mine, only, I
believe, he had a rotary spark — got a musical note. I never got a
musical note; but I think ne had a rotating spark there.
Senator Fletgheb. There was no reason wny you could not get
his messages and he yours ?
Mr. Evans. Oh, no, sir; except I had turned in. I was off from 7
o'clock that night to half past 11. It is 16 hours for a man to be on
watch.
Senator Fletcher. When the mate aroused you and spoke about
a ship having been seen sending up rockets, did he make any state-
ment about when that ship was sending, and what kind of rockets ?
Mr. Evans. No. I slipped on my trousers, and got the phones on
my ears inside of two minutes.
Senator Fletcher. That was at 4 a. m. on Monday morning ?
Mr. Evans. That was 3.40 a. m., New York time.
Senator Fletcher. What ship's time was that ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know. I have not worked out the ship's
time. I do not know if the ship's clock was changed during that
time.
Senator Fletcher. Did Gill, the donkeyman, ever talk to you
about a story he was telling about the sending up of the rockets l>y a
ship that night ?
Mr. Evans. I think he may have mentioned it to me.
Senator Fletcher. Wheni
Mr. Evans. Everybody on board has been speaking about it
amongst themselves.
Senator Fletcher. The captain, too ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir. I have never spoken to the captain about
the matter of rockets, at aU.
Senator Fletcher. None of this talk you have heard on the ship
was in the presence of the cpatain ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. In a general way, what was the talk with ref-
erence to that, that you heard on the ship ?
Mr. Evans. Well, I could not say. It was just simply the usual
talk about the rockets.
Senator Fletcher. Were the rockets described ?
Mr. Evans. Not to my knowledge, no su*. I never heard them de-
scribed.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether they were distress
rockets, or some other kind of rockets ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I do not. I did not see them, myself.
Senator Fletcher. As they were mentioned in this talk on tlie
ship ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I do not know.
Senator Burton. You say everybody was talking on board
among themselves about these rockets?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Do you mean by that that they were saying
tliat they themselves haS seen the rockets, or that there was merely
talk about it on the ship ?
Mr. Evans. There was talk about it, and some of them said they
had seen it, and some said they had not.
<l . ^ ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER, 711
Senator Burton. With how many did you talk who said the}" saw
rockets that ni^ht ?
Mr. Evans. Nobody.
Senator Burton. l5id you talk with anybody ?
Mr. Evans. No one in particular.
Senator Burton. Can you tell any one you talked witli who said
he had seen rockets that night ?
Mr. Evans No, sir
Senator Burton. What was the wave length on your ship, 300 or
600, or what was it ?
Mr. Evans. At present it is 600 meters. I have also, according to
the telegraph convention, fitted it so as to be able to be used as a
300-meter wave length, if necessary.
Senator Smith. You say this message that you got from the
Titanic came with a bang ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; he had very high power; I do know that.
Senator Smith. It came with a bang ?
Mr. Evans. It came, I should say, not absolutely with a bang, but
with fairlv loud signals. But you can not tell by the strength of the
signals wtere anybody is.
Senator Smith. I was going to ask yon whether that in itself
would indicate your proximity to the ship with which you were in
communication ?
Mr. Evans. It is very hard to answer, because it depends on how
a boat is being timed. I have had boats alongside of me sending and I
have replied to them, and their signals were the same as when they
were 200 miles away; and other Boats I have had 200 miles away
with weak signals and when they would get alongside they would
come with such a bang you would have to take the telephones away
from your ears.
Senator Smith. What wave length did you employ when you sent
that warning message to the Titanic Sunday night ?
Mr. Evans. Six hundred meters.
Senator Smith. That is the maximum wave length prescribed by
the BerUn convention, is it not ?
Mr. Evans. That is the wave length prescribed for ship's stations
and for stations.
Senator Smith. And the minimum is 300 1
Mr. Evans. Yes; especially
Senator Smith. Ana you used your 600 wave length ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You do not know the wave length employed by the
Titanic in response to that message t
Mr. Evans. His would be 600, too.
Senator Smith. That is, you think he would use his maximum wave
length ?
Mr. Evans. He could not change his wave length in that time.
Senator Smith. He could not change it ?
Mr. Evans. No. Unless a station is tuned
Senator Smith. With a maximum wave length of 600 in use
between the Titanic and yourself, did that drown out any attempted
communication with Cape Race ?
Mr. Evans. Yqu mean that my signals would drown the Cape Race
signals ?
712 TITANIC DI8ASXEB.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Therefore you are very certain that he got your
message?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you received his ?
Mr. Evans. I received his ; what he sent back.
Senator Fletcher. You started to make some statement a mo-
ment ago that once a station is tuned — and there you stopped.
Mr. Evans. Once you get your station tuned, you can not alter the
wave length, unless by special arrangement you can alter it over to
300 meters.
Senator Smith. Did you complete your full message
Mr. Evans (interposing). At 11 o'clock, approxmately; 9.05 New
York time.
Senator Smith. Did you complete your full message to the Titanic
before you got the injunction to shut up?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that is the last communication you sent to or
received from the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Smith. That was about when ?
Mr. Evans. That was exactly 9.05, New York time.
Senator Smith. That was about 30 minutes before the Titanu
struck this iceberg ?
Mr. Evans. It was 9.05; that would be about five minutes past 11,
ship's time.
Senator Smith. Did your mate say how he knew that there had
been rockets fired ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator SMrrH. The Titanic sank about 2 hours and 45 minutes
before you were called from your bed ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know why you were not called when the
rockets were first seen?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did the first mate or any other ofiicer of the
ship or member of the crew tell you about Capt. Lord being notified
three times that a vessel was sending up rockets ?
Mr. Evans. Well, we have talked among ourselv^, but
Senator Smith^ One minute. I do not want any idle gossip. If
you can recall anything that was said by any officer of your erhip about
that matter, I would like to have you state it; and if ydu can not,
say so.
Mr. Evans. I know that the mate did not say anjrthing to me; no.
Senator Smith. The mate did not ?
Mr. Evans. The mate did not say anything about the captain
being notified
Senator Smith. And the mate was the man that called yoii f
Mr. Evans. Yes; the mate was the man who called me.
Senator SmTH. Did any other officer of the Oalifornian say any-
thing to you about having notified the captain tKree times that a
vessel was sending up rockets ?
Mr. Evans. I think the apprentice did.
tt -..-,. «^,^ 9f
TITAKIC DISASTER. 713
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Evans. Gibson.
Senator Smith. Is he now on the Ctdiformanf
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did he say to you ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know, exactly. I know the effect.
Senator Smith. I would rather have the language he used if you
can give it.
Mr. Evans. I do not know his exact words.
Senator Smith. Give it as near as vou can.
Mr. Evans. Well, I think he said that the skipper was being called;
called three times. I think that is all he said.
Senator Smith. Who was meant by the skipper ?
Mr. Evans. The captain, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was being called, or had been called?
Mr. Evans. Had been called, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anyone else speak of it, any officer
of your ship ?
Mr. Evans. No; I think not.
Senator Smith. Now, witness, tell me if you heard anybody else
sav anything about the captain having been called three times and
informed that rockets were oeing sent up, the night the Titanic sank ?
Mr. Evans. Well, I do not remember any other special individual,
but I know it was being talked about a lot.
Senator Smith. Collectively ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. There was a lot of talk about it, but you can not
recall any individual who spoke to you about it ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; except the apprentice. I think he told me
that he had called the captain.
Senator SMrrn. Did this talk occur on board the Cdlifarniant
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Immediately after the accident to the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. Before we got to the Titanic; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Before you reached the Titanic? '
Mr. Evans. Before we reached the scene of the disaster.
Senator SMrrn. Monday morning ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Before you reached the scene of the disaster ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The men on the ship talked about it, did they ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Generally ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did they say ? What was said ?
Mr. Evans. From people taking up the conversation I know it was
said that rockets had been seen — had been fired. - They did not know
what rockets they were. I know they said that rockets had been
fired oJ, and the captain had been roused.
Senator Smith. How many times ?
Mr. Evans. Three times, 1 think it was, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that all you heard said ?
Mr. Evans. That is all I can recollect ; yes, sir.
J
714 TITANIC DISASTER,
Senator Smith. Was there any talk of this kind after you left the
scene of the sinking of the Tiianicf
Mr. Evans. Yes; it has been talked about all the time since then.
Senator Smith. They have talked about it all the time since then ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. As an unusual and extraordinary occurrence ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anybody, in the course of this conversation
that you heard, say anything about having seen the Morse signals
used i
Mr. Evans. Oh, no. I remember the apprentice told me that he
got the Morse lamp out and called up on that, sir. But he did not
get any reply on tnat.
Senator Smith. He started to call up the Titanic?
Mr. Evans. I do not know whether it was the Titanic
Senator Smith. But the vessel from which the rockets were being
fired — he tried to call her up with his Morse signals ?
Mr. Evans. With his Morse lamp; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And got no Morse reply ?
Mr. Evans. That is correct.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whether he made any attempt
to attract the attention of that ship by firing rockets himself ?
Mr. Evans. No; 1 do not think ne did, sir.
Senator Burton. Was there anything said about the direction in
which these rockets were seen? Did they say that they were off
where the Titanic was sunk ?
Mr. Evans. Nobody specified any special direction where they
came from. From the south they were.
Senator Burton. The direction in which the Titanic was ?
Mr. Evans. I would not be sure about that.
Senator Burton. In all this conversation, did thej say these
rockets came from that boat which the captain has mentioned or that
they came from the Titanic?
3ir. Evans. They did not know which.
Senator Burton. Was it said that the rockets were those which
had been sent up by the Titanic? Was that the talk on board ship ?
Mr. Evans. Some of them seemed to think so, and some not, sir.
Senator Burton. Has anyone told you that he was to receive $500
for a story in regard to these rockets — anyone on your boat i
Mr. Evans. 1 think the donkeyman mentioned it.
Senator Burton. What did he say ?
Mr. Evans. He said ''I think I will make about $500 on this.''
Senator Burton. Did he say that to you ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. That is the man who was a witness here this
morning ?
Mr. Evans. Gill, the second donkeyman.
Senator Burton. He said he thought ho would make $500?
Mr. Evans. Yes.
Senator Burton. When was that said ?
Mr. Evans. The night before last.
Senator Burton. Did you hear him say that at any other time ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Burton. He said that to you night before last ?
i€ HM»>^.M.^ 99
irtTAHTC DIBAfiTER. 716
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Where were you then 1
Mr. Evans. I had gone ashore, and I was outside the station, I
think. I do not remember whether it was the north station or the
south station.
Senator Burton. It was after you had landed 1
Mr. Evans. It was after I had landed; yes, air; he asked if I was
not going back any more. He said he had been up and told the
newspaper about the accident.
Senator Burton. And he said that he would make about $000 <mt
of it?
Mr. Evans. He said, ''I think we will make about S600 out of it.''
Senator Smith. I tinderstood you to say there was an apprentice on
the bridge with the officer ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that apprentice told you he saw these rockets ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; he said he saw rockets.
Senator Smith. He said he saw rockets ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he got anything for his
story, or whether he has given out any story ?
Mr. Evans. I do not think for a moment he told anybody oth^
than the people on the boat.
Senator Smith. But you got your information directly from the
apprentice who was on the bridge with the officer f
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. That he himsrif had seen rockets the night the
Titanic went down t
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the captain say that he saw rocketuS
Mr. Evans. I heard so the next day. I did not hear anythkig
about it the same day.
Senator SMrra. You heard him swear to it here a few moments ago ?
Mr. Evans. Yes^sir.
Senator Smith. White rockets, he said, did he not ?
Mr. Evans. I think so.
Senator Smith. Have you yourself been offered, or have you re^
ceived, any money from anjr person for any information in your pos-
session regarding this TUanic accident or wreck ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And the movements of the steamship Califomiant
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Let us understand a little more clearly about the
circumstances under which the fourth officer awakened you.
Mr. Evans. The chief officer wakened me.
Senator Bourne. Did he say that the rockets had just been seen
or that they had been seen during the night ?
Mr. Evans. He came to my room and said, ''Rockets have beea
seen going off." He did not state any specific time. He said,
** Rockets have been seen going off.- Will you go and call?" He
came on watch at 4 o'clock, I think. He was down below, before.
Senator Bourne. He had just been awakened himself, probably,
before he came to see you ?
40475— PT 8—12 5
716 " TITANIC '' BIdASTEB.
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Bournb. There was nothing from which you could ascer-
tain when those rockets had been seen ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Boubne. From your conversation with him you could not
determine that ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; nothing.
Senator Smith. Have you heard from anyone regarding the Titanic
disaster whether any rockets were sent up on the Titanic the night
she sank %
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You have no information of that kind ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; no information from anybody on the Titanv:.
Senator Fletcher. What were you told, when you were aroused,
with reference to these rockets ?
Mr. Evans. The mate came to mv room, and he said, ''Rockets
have been seen to have been fired off.'' He did not say when. " Will
you call and see if you can find out what is the matter?" In five
mmutes I knew what was the matter.
Senator Fletcher. The mate evidently considered that these
rockets were distress rockets, did he ?
Mr. Evans. He did not say so to me.
Senator Fletcher. But he would not ask you to inquire
- Mr. Evans (interrupting). He said to find out.
Senator Fletcher. He would not ask you to inquire unless he
apprehended there was some trouble ?
Mr. Evans. I do not know. Two or three davs before that I got
word from another operator that there was a boat wanting to be
towed, an oil tank. She was short of coal, and wanted to be towed,
and I beUeve he thought it was her, I would not say. He did not
•happen to mention it to me; he has not mentioned it to me.
Senator Fletcher. Who was that ?
Mr. Evans. The chief officer.
Senator Fletcher. When would you have gone on duty Monday
morning, April 15, if you had not been awakened by the first mate ?
Mr. Evans. Between 7 and a quarter past. The steward calls me
«t 7 o'clock.
Senator Smith. When the first mate awakened you and told you
that the first officer wanted you to get up, that rockets had been seen
Mr. Evans (interrupting). It was the chief officer that came into
ihy room, sir.
Senator Smith. The chief officer came to your room and aroused
youl
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And told you rockets had been seen ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You deemed that of sufficient importance to arise
immediately ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; I put on my trousers and called.
' ' ' Seiiator Smith. Otherwise you would have remained in your bed
until what time ?
Mr. Evans. If I had not been called, I should have remained in my
bunk until 7 o'clock, or between 7 and a quarter past.
t i — ^ . ^— ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 7 17
Senator Smith. I believe you said you never received any offer or
pajment for any information in your possession regarding the
Trlanic disaster ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you accepted any money for anything of that
character ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Would you receive any money for information of
that character f
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I would not.
Senator Smith. Why %
Mr. Evans. I do not think it is right to receive money for anything
like that.
Senator Smith. That is all; you may be excused.
Mr. Evans. Thank you.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. I would like to ask Mr. Evans, the able seaman, a
few further questions. I examined this man in my room last even-
ing, and there is one question I overlooked.
FUETHEB TE8TIM0HT OF FKAVK OLIVEB EVAVS.
Senator Smith. Evans, I think you told me you had served nine
years in the Royal Navy ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you in the lifeboat
Mr. Evans (interrupting). Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. One moment, now. Where were you in the life-
boat when lifeboat No. 14, in charge of Officer Lowe, was tied up to
your boat ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; he was not tied up to us. He came over to us.
Senator Smith. Where were you when he came over to you %
Mr. Evans. In the bow of No. 10 boat.
Senator Smith. You got out of No. 10 boat and got into No. 14
boat with Officer Lowe ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; by his orders, sir.
Senator Smith. You said you heard Officer Lowe fire four shots
from a revolver ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you at that time ?
Mr. Evans. Going to the assistance of the collapsible boat that
was swamped.
Senator Smith. On the way from the place where you joined Officer
Lowe, in boat 14, to the collapsible boat that was being swamped and
filled with passengers, men and women
Mr. Evans (interrupting). One woman, sir.
Senator Smith. They were up to their ankles in water ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; the boat was swamped within about 5 or 6
inches of the gunwale, the top of the boat, sir.
Senator Smith. You heard Officer Lowe and saw him fire his re-
volver several times ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In what direction did he point the revolver %
715 XITANIO " ©WAOTW.
Mr. Evans. In the «kir; air.
Senator Siaxn. Did you ask him why he fired ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he tell you why he fired ?
Mr. Evans. He told the people in this boat it was to warn them not
to rush our boat when we got alongside.
Senator Smith. How many people did you have in your boat, No.
Hi with Lowe?
Mr. Evans. We had one dead and three alive, that we picked up off
the wreckajse. This man died on the way from the wreokage, sir.
Senator Smith. This man was a large man ?
Mr. Evans. A very stout man, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know his name ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Smfth. Was it Mr. Hoy t ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say; I do not know his naaie.
Senator Smith. Did you unf a»tan his collar ?
Mr. £1vans. No, sir; some ot the stewards did, sir.
Senator Smith. In the end of your boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator SsirrH. In order that he might breatiiie ?
Mr. Evans. Yes^ir; in order that he might breathe.
Senator Smith. Were those all the persons in lif€4>oat No. 14 at that
moment ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; besides the crew.
Senator Smith. And of how many did the crew consist ?
Mr. Evans. I should say about ei^t or nine, sir.
Senator Smith. Then, in your boat at that time was a erew of eight
or nine, which included yourself t
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Including Offio-er Lowe ?
Afr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. This Mr. Hoyt, whom you picked up out of the
water alive, was there ?
Mr. Evans. He was alive when we got him over the side of tiie boat,
into the boat.
Senator Smith. You picked him up out of the water alive?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And two other persons ?
Mr. Evans. Three others, sir.
Senator Smith. Who were these three other persons ?
Mr. Evans. I did not recognize two of them, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you recognize one?
; Mbr. Evans. Yes, sir; the steward, youns Stewart.
Senator Smith. Were the othrav stewards ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Or firemen ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Or stokers ?
Mr. Evans. I could not say, sir, which. I did not know them, sir.
Senator Smith. You do not know whether they were part of the
crew or not ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
fi - ff
TITAKIO IHBAarXB* T19
Senator Smith. How far was this swamped collapsible lifeboat from
lifeboat No. 14 when you started to itt
Mr. Evans. About a mile and a half, sir.
Senator SMrrH. How near were you to the swamped boat when
Lowe fired those shots ?
Afr. Evans. About 150 yards, sir.
Senator Smith. Going toward it ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; about 150 jrards, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he say anything at the time he did it ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; he just mentioined the fact that they must
not rush the boat, as it was liable to capsize her.
Senator Smith. Did you hear Lowe fire three shots when he was
lowering froan the ship's deck to the water in his lifeboat ?
Mr. £vANi9. I never seen him, sir, when his boat was being low-
ered, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your Ufeboat pick up the lamp trimmer t
Mr. Evans. No, air.
Senator Smith. At the time Lowe fired these shots were there many
floatii^ bodies about your boat?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; no floating bodies, sir. We had come away
from them.
Senator Smith. You had oome away from them?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir. They were around the wreck.
Senator Smith. How manv ?
Mr. Evans. I should think between 150 and 200. We had great
difficulty in getting through them to get to the wreck.
Senator Smith. The collapsible boat, according to this evid^ice,
was from the Titanie and had been in the water from about 12
o'clock, or half past 12, that nieht, until daylight?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; it was aayhght when we seen it, sir.
Senator Smith. At dayUght this man saw about 20 people standing
upon what he supposed to be floating ice, and in company vdth Officw
Jjowe, in lifeboat No. 14, went in that direction. When they got
within 150 yards of it Officer Lowe fired these shots. They went up
to the boat and took therefrom about 25 passengers ?
Mr. Evans. Between 20 and 25. We left 3 dead ones.
Senator Smith. About 25 passengers living, including one woman,
and you left 3 dead bodies in the swamped boat. While you were
standing beside your boat, which was, I believe. No. 12, on the port
side, with Officer Murdock, you saw him load that Ufeboat f
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Did I understand you correctly last night when you
told me that the lifeboat was about 2| to 3 feet from the ship's side?
Mr. Evans. That was No. 10 lifeboat, sir.
Senator SMrrn. And that women hesitated to get into it at the com-
mand of Mr. Murdock, because they could not reach it safely ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrni. That one woman, in attempting to jump into it,
had gone over the side?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; and her foot caught on the rail, and she was
suspended in the air.
Senator Smith. And little children were thrown into it?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
720 TITANIC DISASXHR.
Senator Smith. Were pitched into it?
Mr. Evans. Yes. They had them in their arms, chucking them in.
Senator Smith. They were chucked in ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And No. 10 was not filled, was it?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; ftiU to its capacity.
Senator Smith. But you had some difficulty about getting the
people to get in in that way ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Boubne. Who caught the children as they were thrown
into the boat ?
Mr. Evans. The first child was passed over, sir, and I caught it by
the dress. It was dangling. I hsul to swing it, and a woman caught
it. The remainder of the children — there w^ a fireman there and
with the assistance of a young woman they caught the children as
they were dropped into tne boat. There were none of the children
hurt. That was the only accident, with this woman. She seemed a
bit nervous. She did not like to jump, as first, and then when she
did jump she did not go far enough, and the consequence was she
went between the ship and the boat.
Senator Bourne. She fell into the water ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; she did not fall into the water. Her foot
caught on the rail on the next deck and she was pulled in by some
men underneath. This woman went up again on the boat deck and
took another jump and landed safely in the boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know who she was ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir; I do not know her name.
Senator Fletcher. Which was the last lifeboat to leave the ship ?
Mr. Evans. The last lifeboat was No. 10. That was the last boat
to leave the ship, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Edward John Buley was on that boat — an able
seaman ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir; my mate.
Senator Fletcher. You were both ordered into the boat ?
Mr. Evans. Yes; by Chief Officer Murdock.
Senator Fletcher. How many men were in that boat ?
Mr. Evans. There were me, and Buley, a fireman, a steward, and
one foreigner. The remainder was all women and children.
Senator Fletcher. Did you have enough men in to row it, to take
care of it ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were the men all ordered in ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir ; they were ordered in by Chief Officer Murdock.
Senator Fletcher. Which was the next boat to this one to leave
the ship ?
Mr. Evans. I could not tell you, sir. I went away in No. 10, and
that was the last boat. That was a big lifeboat.
Senator Fletcher. Did you help to load No. 12 and No. 141
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir. I was on the starboard side, then.
Senator Fletcher. The boat that preceded No. 10 was what
number ?
Mr. Evans. I could not tell you, sir. No. 10 was the last boat, the
big boat.
i< fj
TITANIC DISASTER. 721
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the Titanic after you rowed away
from where she was ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, su-.
Senator Fletcher. How far did you go away ?
Mr. Evans. About 200 yards.
Senator Fletcher. How much of the bow was under the water
when you left ?
Mr. Evans.' She was about 10 feet from the port bow light; sir.
Senator Fletcher. How far did your boat nave to go to get to
the water ?
Mr. Evans. It would be guesswork if I told you.
Senator Fletcher. As near as you can tell.
Mr. Evans. I should say about 50 feet. I could not tell. I was
paying so much attention
Senator Smith. Could you see the boat well after you pulled away
from her ?
Mr. Evans. You could see her when the lights were clear, and then
until she gave the finalplunge.
Senator Fletcher. Did the boat go to pieces or come in two ?
Mr. Evans. She parted between the third and fourth funnels.
Senator Fletcher. What makes you say that ?
Mr. Evans. The foremost part was gone, and it seemed as if the
engines were all gone out.
Senator Fletcher. You could see the forepart was all gone and
you could see the stern come up horizontally ?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. After the forepart had disappeared the stern
came up and was horizontal with the surface of the water?
Mr. Evans. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And how much of the stei:n; up to what part of
the ship; to the funnels?
Mr. Evans. From the after funnel to the ensign mast.
Senator Fletcher. About how much of the snip was afloat then,
after the forepart had gone down ?
Mr. Evans. I should say about 200 feet was afloat; that is, of the
stem part.
Senator Fletcher. Could you see that clearly in the outline ?
Mr. Evans. You could see that in the outline. Then she made a
sudden plunge, and the stern went right up.
Senator Fletcher. Then she plunged forward and went right
down?
Mr. Evans. Plunged forward, perpendicular, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long was the stem afloat in that hori-
zontal position?
Mr. Evans. About four or five minutes, I should judge.
Senator Fletcher. You were too far away to see whether there
were any passengers on the stern ?
Mr. Evans, les, sir; I was too far away to see that.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any light in this boat, No. 10 ?
Mr. Evans. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. No lantern ?
Mr. Evans. No lantern at all.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any in No. 12, do you know ?
722 TlTLBflO ' DI8A837EB.
Mr. Evans. I could not say about No. 12.
Senator Fletcher. Were tnere any other supplies in No. 10 1
Mr. Etans. In No. 10, ^es, sir; there was in the tank forward, and
the aft one was loaded with biscuits and kegs of water, with a small
drinking cup.
Senator SHirH. I will ask the sergeant at arms if the captain of the
Mount Temple is here?
Mr. OoRNELnis. We have not seen bim. He has not reported to
anybody.
Senator SMrrH. Then we will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock to-
morrow morning.
At 6 o'clock the subconmiittee adjourned until to-morrow. Sat*
urday, April 27, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
" TIT_A.IsriC " IDIS.A.STEII
'^'^'f^ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OP THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 9
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WA8HING1X)N
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE
1012
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
United States Senate.
WILLIAIC ALDEN SMITH, MiohigBn, Chairman,
OEOROE C. PERKINS, California. F. M. SIMMONS, North CaroUna.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oregon. FRANCIS O. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKnrsraT, Clerk.
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Paffe.
Blight, Arthur John 799
Burke, William 789
Crawford, Alfred 794,810
CunniDgham, Andrew 758
Etches, Henry Samuel 778
Franklin, P. A. S 765
LightoUer, Charles H 723,753
Moore, Capt. James Henry 726
Ray, Frederick D 766
III
"TITANIC*' DI8A8TEK.
SATURDAY, AFBTL 27, 1912.
subgommittbe of the committeb on commerce,
United States Senate,
Washington^ D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10.20 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Perkins, and Fletcher.
TESTDfOHT OF CHABLES H. UOHTOLLEBn-Becalled.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lightoller, are you familiar with the ship's
crew of the Titamc when she left Soutnampton, and at the time of
the accident?
Mr. LiOHTOLLER. You are speaking of the seamen, are you, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever known Luis Klein?
Mr. LiOHTOLLEH. Not amongst the seamen.
Senator Smith. Was there such a member of the crew of the
Titanuif
Mr. Lightolleb. I am given to understand that there was one man
named Klein^, who was a second-class barber. That man is person-
ally known to me. He is the only Klein who was on board so far
as I know.
Senator Smith. Did he survive?
Mr. L1GHTOLI4ER. He did not.
Senator Smith. Who was the barber ? Do you recall him by name ?
Mr. Liohtoller. Klein.
Senator Smith. No ; I do not mean him. This was the assistant —
Klein, the man you speak of. I want to know who the barber was.
Who was the prmcipal barber on that ship ?
Mr. Lightoller. The first-class barber ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. L1GHTOL1.ER. I forget his name, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he survived ?
Mr. Lightoller. He did not.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you be very sure of that, sir.
Mr. Lightoller. Of which, sir?
Senator Smith. Of that last statement. Will you kindly make
yourself very certain of that? I am in communication with the
nrst-class barber, who is an American, the only American, I believe,
who was in the crew, and I would like to have you think over
whether there was more than the one first-class barber, so that we
may have no conflict about this man.
723
724 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Mr. LioHTOLLER. To the best of my knowledge and belief the
first-class barber was not saved, unless I have been misinformed.
[After consulting memorandum] I am very sorry, sir ; I see that
the first-class barber is here.
Senator Smith. What is his name?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Whitman or Whiteman.
Senator Smith. W-h-i-t-m-a-n?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. I have just been handed by a surviving passenger
a memorandum, and he says that this barber is now at Palmyra,
N. J. Would you like to correct your statement in that respect?
Mr. LioHTOLLER. Ycs; I would. The first-class barber evidently
is the survivor.
Senator Smith. But you are positive that the only Klein in the
crew did not survive ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. He did not survive, to the best of my knowledge
and belief.
Senator Smith. Did you see a man here in my office this week who
claimed to be Lewis Klein, a surviving member of the crew of the
Titanic f
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I bclicve that I did, sir.
Senator Smith. Had you ever seen him before?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Ncvcr.
Senator Fletcher. Could he have been the stowaway who was
found in one of the lifeboats ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I Tcally could not say, sir. I know the man
that Senator Smith speaks of as being in his office, and I certainlv
never saw him before
Senator Smith. You recall that the stowaway referred to as hav-
ing sneaked into the boat with a shawl and a dress on had a broken
arm? This man you saw in my office did not have a broken arm,
did he?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Not as far as I could see, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know who made up the list of the sur-
viving members of the crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I made up the list for the seamen and Hardy, the
assistant second-class steward, made up a list for the victualing
department.
Senator Smith. Was any list made on the Carpathiu of the sur-
vivors of the crew ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you feel that you have an accurate list?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I fccl that I have. I went through all the sea-
men and firemen personally. The stewards I left to Mr. Hardy to
identify.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Hardy here?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. We can get him in a few minutes. He has gone
to his hotel.
Senator Smith. I would like to have Mr. Hardy called, and I
would like to ask you if you have filed with the committee a complete
list of the surviving members of the crew, as requested ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir ; not the complete list ; not that I remem-
ber. I have given it to two or three. I do not know whether I gave
it to the committee.
ft ».*-. . ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 725
Senator Smith. Will you kindly supply the committee with a
complete list ?
Afr. LiGiiTOLLER. Yes.
Senator Smith. And I would like it, if possible, during the day.
Mr. LiGHT0Li£B. I will have it done at once.
Senator Smith. I would like to have it indicate the vocation of
each.
Mr. Lightoller. Exactly.
Senator Smith. And, if possible, give the full name of each.
Mr. Lightoller. Yes.
Senator Smith. And his place of residence.
Witness excused.
TESTIHONY OF CAPT. JAMES HENBT XOOBE.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside, Captain ?
Mr. MooRE. Liverpool, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your business?
Mr. MooRE. T am master of the steamship Mount Temple^ sir.
Senator Smith. And your business is that of a navigator or
mariner ?
Mr. MooRE. A navigator; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in that busi-
ness?
Mr. MooRE. I have been going to sea for 32 years, sir.
Senator Smith. How much of that time in the north Atlantic
Ocean ?
Mr. MooRE. Twenty-seven years, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you familiar with ice and icebergs?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee what you know about ice and
icebergs and the prevalence of ice in the north Atlantic?
Mr. MooRE. An iceberg is a piece of ice broken away from a
glacier up in the Arctic regions. It may be composed of anything;
ice, rocks, or anything it can gather up on its way to the sea.
Senator Smith. Do you know how much of an iceberg is sub-
merged ?
Air. Moore. It is generally supposed that seven-eighths of it is
submerged, sir.
Senator Smith. What is the largest iceberg you have ever seen ?
Mr. Moore. I could not say just at the moment, but I dare say I
have seen them 300 f r 400 feet long and about the same height, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you notice the National Capitol when you
came up here this morning? Did you notice that building?
Mr. Moore. Yes; but it would be hard lo judge from that, sir. I
dare say I have seen some larger than that, but I am giving that as
a conservative size.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any manner or method of obtain-
ing information regarding the proximity of vessels at sea to ice-
bergs other than by a<*tual vision?
Mr. Moore. We ii>iuilly take the temperature of both the air and
the water, sir.
Senator Smith. What does that indicate?
726 ^* TITANIC '" DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. If we are approaching an ice field, tlie chances are
that the temperature will go down; but when approaching an ice-
berg it does not make any difference whatever, sir, except you get
very, very close to it.
Senator Smith. Have you ever heard of the practice of sounding
the steam whistle in order to get an indication as to whether or not
icebergs are ahead?
Mr. MooRE. I do not think that that is generally done. I have
never tried it, but I have tried it when I have been near high cliffs.
Senator Smith. WTiat was the result?
Mr. Moore. You do sometimes get an echo back, sir.
Senator Smith. What does that indicate?
Mr. Moore. That you are close to something that is obstructing
the waves of sound.
Senator Smith. What is the purpose of taking the water, and test-
ing it, on a voyage?
Mr. Moore. We take it right along, sir. We have logs we make up
for the Hydrogi-aphic Office in Washington, sir; and we also have
them for the British Geographical Society, sir — ^the British Meteoro-
logical Society, rather — and we supply the^ with all those data.
We give them the barometer and the thermometer, the temperature
of the water, and all such things as that sir.
Senator Smith. I believe you said the temperature of both the
water and the air might indicate the presence of field ice?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But not necessarily the presence of a floating
iceberg ?
Mr. Moore. Xo, sir; because a large field of ice, I think, would
make some difference in the temperature, but just a solitary berg,
without you are close to it, I do not think makes any dinerence
at all. In fact, I tried it several times, and I did not find any
difference, I do not think it indicates the presence of an iceberg,
but it will indicate the presence of a large body of ice, such as an
ice field.
Senator Smith. From your experience and observation have you
ever heard explosions from icebergs?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen icebergs both by day and by night ?
Mr. Moore. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. What is their color by day ?
Mr. Moore. White, sir.
Senator Smith. What is their color bv night ?
Mr. Moore. It just depends on which way you have the lights,
sir.
Senator Smith. Suppose vou have merely the sky light ?
Mr. Moore. Then they will show up white, sir — white and lumi-
nous.
Senator Smith. Suppose you have moonlight?
Mr. Moore. It just depends on which way you have the moon,
whether at the back of the iceberg or not, sir.
Senator Smith. Do they at any time look black?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Under what circumstances?
Mr. Moore. When you have the light behind them from you, sir.
<f „, ^^„ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 727
Senator Smith. That is at night?
Mr. Moore. At night, sir.
Senator Smith. Where is your vessel now?
Mr. Moore. She is on her wav to Halifax, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you and your vessel on Sunday,
April 14, last ?
Mr. Moore. At 12.30 on Monday morning
Senator Smith (interposing). Give the date.
Mr. Moore. The 15th, sir. I was in latitude 41° 25' and longi-
tude 51° 15', sir. I believe that is correct.
Senator Smith. What time of day was that?
Mr. Moore. At 12.30 a. m.
Senator Smith. Was it New York time or ship's time ?
Mr. Moore. That was ship's time, sir. [After consulting a memo-
randum] 41° 25' north and 51° 41' west was my position.
Senator Smith. What hour was this in the morning?
Mr. Moore. 12.30 a. m., sir.
Senator Nbwlands. Ship's time?
Mr. Moore. Ship's time.
Senator Fletcher. What date was that?
Mr. Moore. The 15th.
Senator Fletcher. Kindly give the longitude at that time.
Mr. Moore. The longitude was 51° 14' west.
Senator Smith. When was your ship's clock set?
Mr. MooKE. At noon the day before, sir.
Senator Smith. That would be Sunday?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; or, rather, before noon. It was during what
they call the forenoon watch, sir.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you tell in your own way
what, if anything especially, occurred on that voyage of yours on
Sunday and Monday. Just tell what you did, what you saw, and
where you saw it.
Mr. Moore. At 12.30 a. m. on the 15th I was awakened by the
steward from my sleep with a message from the Marconi opera-
tor, sir.
Senator Smith. On your ship?
Mr. Moore. On my ship; yes, sir. I immediately switched on. the
light and took a message that the operator sent up to me which said
that the Titanic was sending out the C. Q. D. message, and in the
message it said "iceberg."
Senator Smith. Have you the message?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Just read it, please.
Mr. Moore. Titanic sends
Senator Smith (interposing). Kindly give the date line, if any:
the hour, if any; and to whom that message is addressed, if to
anyone.
Mr. Moore. It was a general message, sir.
Titanic sends C. Q. D. Requires asslstmioe. Position 41° 44' north, longi-
tude 50* 24' west. Come at once. Iceberg.
Senator SMirii.Who signed that, if anybody?
Mr. Moore. This is just a message he picked up, sir. He happened
to hear it. He was sending this up at onre to me.
Senator Smith. Can you file that with the reporter?
728 '' TITANIC *' DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
The message referred to was thereupon filed with the committee
and marked " Exhibit Moore, No. 1."
Senator Smith, Did yon make any reply to that message?
Mr. Moore. None whatever. We did not want to stop these mes-
sages from going out, sir. He makes a remark at the bottom, " Can't
hear me."
Senator Smith. On this message?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. You will see it on the bottom, there — ^" Can't
hear me."
Senator Smith. What is the initial under that?
Mr. Moore. That is my operator's, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do after receiving this message?
Mr. Moore. I immediately blew the whistle on the bridge. I have
a pipe leading down from the bridge, and I blew the whistle at once<.
and told the second officer to put the ship on north 46° east, sir, and
to come down at once, and I informed him what was the matter,
and told him to get the chart out. When I was sufficiently dressed
I went up to my chart room, and we computed where the ship was,
and we afterwards steered east by compass.
Senator Smith. Did you make any progress in your movements?
Mr. Moore. We turned her right around at once, sir, and then when
he came down we took the chart out and found out where the Titanic
was and steered her by the compass north 65® east true.
Senator Smith. In the direction of the Titanic f
Mr. Moore. In the direction of the Titanic; yes, sir. After I was
sufficiently dressed I went down to the chief engineer and I told him
that the fitanic was sending out messages for help, and I said " Ge
down and try to shake up the fireman, and, if necessary, even give
him a tot of rum if you think he can do any more." I believe this
was carried out. I also told him to inform the fireman that we
wanted to get back as fast as we possibly could.
Senator Smith. At the time that you got this message from the
Titanic^ judging* from the position that vessel was in and your posi-
tion, 41° 44' north, longitude 50° 24' west, how far did you estimate
the Titanic was at that time from your vessel ?
Mr. MooRE. Before we had laid the course off I received another
?iosition, which read 41° 46' north, 50° 14' west; so that was 10 miles
arther to the eastward, and it was that position that I laid my
course for.
Senator Smith. After satisfying yourself as to her position, &ow
far was the Titanic from your vessel ?
Mr. Moore. About 49 miles, sir.
Senator Smith. After you got well under way, what speed were
you making?
Mr. Moore. I should imagine perhaps 11^ knots. Of course, per-
haps she would have a little of the Gulf Stream with her too, sir.
Senator Smith. What occurred then?
Mr. Moore. At about 3 o'clock we began to meet the ice, sir.
Senator Smith. Where? From whicJi direction?
Mr. Moore. We were passing it on our course. We met ice on our
course. I immediately telegraphed to the engine room to stand by
the engines, and we double-loo kou ted, and put the fourth officer
t< . ^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 729
forward to report if he saw any ice coming along that was likely to
injure us, or, in fact any ice at all.
Senator Smith. You say you doubled the lookout?
Mr. Moose. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Let us get into the record exactly what you mean
bv that.
Mr. Moore. Before this we had only one man on the lookout^ sir.
Senator Smith. One man in the crow's nest?
Mr. MooRE. One man in the crow's nest, and we put another man
on the forward bridge, and the fourth officer we put on the fore-
castle head, so, if the ice was low down, he perhaps could see it far-
ther than we could on the bridge.
Senator Smith. Did you take any other precautions to avoid dan-
ger or accident?
Mr. Moore. Not at that time, sir. We had the lookout, and the
engines were at " stand by," sir.
Senator Smith. So you were simply protecting yourself against
ice at that time?
Mr. Moore. That is all, sir.
Senator Smith. And you had stopped your boat ?
Mr. Moore. Oh, no, sir. We had only the engines at " stand by."
Senator Smith. Were you stopped at any time?
Mr. Moore. We were stopped ; yes.
Senator Smith. So I understand you.
Mr. MooRE. At 3.25 by our time we stopped.
Senator Smith. Where were you then ; in what position was your
ship?
Mr. Moore. I should say we were then about 14 miles off the
Titanie'8 position.
Senator Smith. Can you tell me just what your position was ; did
vou take it?
Mr. Moore. I could not; I could not take any position. There
was nothing — I could not see
Senator Smith. You judged you were 14 miles from the Titanic f
Mr. MooRE. That is what I estimate.
Senator Fletcher. What time was that?
Mr. Moore. At 3.25 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Was it dark or was day breaking?
Mr. Moore. It was dark, then, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do then?
Mr. Moore. I stopped the ship. Before that I want to say that
I met a schooner or some small craft, and I had to get out of the
wav of that vessel, and the light of that vessel seemed to go out.
Senator Smith. The light of the schooner seemed to go out?
Mr. Moore. The light of the schooner; yes. When this light was
cm my bow, a green light, I starboarded my helm.
Senator Smith. The schooner was between you and the TitanU'^s
position ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And in your track?
Mr. Moore. She was a little off our bow, and I immediately star-
boarded the helm and got the two lights green to green, sir.
Senator Smith. Was this schooner coming toward you ?
J
730 TITANIC '' DISABTEB.
Mr. Moore. I was steering east and this green light was opening
to me.
Senator Smith. Was he evidently coming from the direction in
which the Titanic lay ?
Mr. Moore. Somewhere from there, sir. Of course, had he been
coming straight he would have shown me his two lights, sir.
Senator Smith. I have b^en informed that a derelict schooner was
in the sea in that vicinity that night without anyone aboard her.
Can you tell me whether or not this schooner was inhabited ?
Mr. Moore. I could not say, sir. All I could see was the lights. It
was dark.
Senator Smith. You saw a light on the schooner?
Mr. Moore. A light on the schooner; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was that light?
Mr. Moore. I could not say where the light was on the schooner,
but I dare say
Senator Smith. Whether it was fore or aft?
Mr. Moore. No, sir ; I could not say.
Senator Smith. The light, however, would indicate that it was in-
habited ?
Mr. Moore. At that time ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You had no communication with any person, and
did not see any person, on that schooner, yourself?
Mr. Moore. Oh, no, sir. It was quite dark.
Senator Smith. How much nearer the Titardc^s position do you
think that schooner was than your boat at the time you have
Mr. Moore. I should say this light could not have been more than
a mile or a mile and a half away, because I immediately put my helm
hard astarboard, because I saw the light, and after I got the light
on the starboard bow then the light seemed to suddenly go out. I
kept on and then the quartermaster must have let her come up toward
the east again, because I heard the foghorn on this schooner. He
blew his foghorn, and we immediately put the helm hard astarboard,
and I ordered full speed astern and took the way off the boat.
Senator Smith. You think the schooner was within a short dis-
tance of the Titanic?
Mr. Moore. I thought she was within a short distance of us, be-
cause I put the engines full astern to avoid her.
Senator Smith. Now, let us see if we understand one another.
How far was this schooner from you ?
Mr. Moore. Well, I should think at that time we could not have
been so far apart. I could not judge, because you can not judge by a
light at sea.
Senator Smith. At 3.25 a. m. you think you were 14 miles away
from the Titanic?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At about that time you saw this schooner?
Mr. Moore. Oh, no; it was just shortly after 3 o'clock when I saw
the schooner, sir.
Senator Smith. That is what I say — about 3.25 ?
Mr. Moore. No; just shortly after 3 o'clock I saw \he schooner.
That was before I stopped her on account of the ice getting so thick,
sir. As a matter of fact, I did not stop her altogether; I simply
(< . 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 731
latopped the engines and let the way run off the ship and then pro-
ceeded slowlv.
Senator Smith. One light, you said, was on the schooner ?
Mr. MooRE. One light. I just saw the one light. He would have
his starboard side open to me.
Senator Smith. What did you do then, after the schooner passed
and got out of the way ?
Mr. MooRE. I put her on her course again, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to be certain that the schooner was as near
the Titanic as I thought I understood you to say it was.
Mr. MooRE. I should say the schooner, from the position of the
Titanic^ would be, perhaps, 12^ to 13 miles.
Senator Smith. Exactly ; and from you at the same time ?
Mr. Moore. At that time it would be farther off, because it was 3.25
when I stopped the ship; I reckon it was shortly after 3 o'clock. I
could not give the times, because I did not take them ; but at 3.25 I
was 14 miles off. This was shortly after 3 o'clock, when I met the
schooner, and had to starboard to get out of the way. That meant I
starboarded about two points.
Senator Smith. About how fast was that schooner moving?
Mr. Moore. He could not have been moving very fast.
Senator Smith. How fast! Just give your best judgment.
Mr. Moose. I dare say she would be making a couple of knots an
hour. Some time after that the breeze sprang up until we had quite
a fresh breeze.
Senator Smith. This schooner came from the direction of the
Titanic^s position?
Mr. MooRB. Fairly well, sir. You see, I was going north 65^
east, and he angled a bit to the south, because if he had come directly
from the other, of course, he would have shown me two lights, sir.
Senator Smith. What I am trying to get at is this: One or two
of the ship's oflScers of the Titanic say that after the collision with
the iceberg they used the Morse signals and rockets for the purpose
of attracting help, and that while they were using these rockets and
displaying the Morse signals they saw lights ahead, or saw lights,
that could not have been over 5 miles from the Titanic, What I
am seeking to develop is the question as to what light that was they
saw.
Mr. Moore. Well, it may have been the light of the tramp steamer
that was ahead of us, because when I turned there was a steamer on
my port bow.
Senator Smith. Going in the same direction?
Mr. Moore. Almost in the same direction. As he went ahead, he
gradually crossed our bow until he got on the starboard bow, sir —
on our starboard bow.
Senator Smith. Did you see that ship yourself?
Mr. Moore. I saw it myself. I was on the bridge all the time.
Senator Smith. Did you communicate with it by wireless?
Mr. Moore. I do not think he had any wireless ; I am sure he had
no wireless, because in the daylight I was close to him.
Senator Smith. How large a vessel was it?
Mr. Moore. I should say a ship of about 4,000 or 5,000 tons.
Senator Smith. How large a vessel is the Mount Temple, which
vou command?
732 '^ TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. Six thousand six hundred and sixty-one tons register.
Senator Smith. And the Mount Temple is one of the fleet of the
Canadian Pacific Railway?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you come close enough to that ship to which
you have just referred to determine what she was?
Mr. Moore. As to her name, sir?
Senator Smith. Her name?
Mr. Moore. No ; I did not get her name.
Senator Smith. Or her character?
Mr. Moore. I think she was a foreign ship, sir. She was not
English. I do not think she was Englisn, because she did not show
her ensign.
Senator Smith. Do you know the vessel HeUg Olavf
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you seen that vessel since you saw her early
that morning — Monday?
Mr. Moore. I saw her until after 9 o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. But had no communication with her ?
Mr. Moore. Had no communication with her. We were trying
to pick him out in the signal book, and we were trying to signal
with him, because I think he was under the impression that I was
going to the eastward, that I was bound to the eastward, and I think
when I turned back after we both stopped, when we found the ice
too heavy, he followed me, because when I turned around, after
finding the ice too heavy to the southward, after I went to the south-
ward later on in the morning, when it got daylight, and I went
down to where he was, thinking he perhaps had gotten into a thin
spot, when I got there he had stopped, he had loimd the ice too
heavy. I went a little farther, and I turned around because it was
getting far too heavy to put the ship through. But that would be
about 5, or perhaps half past 5, in the morning, sir.
Senator Smith. You have no means of determining what the name
of that vessel is, or what the name of the commander is?
Mr. Moore. I had no communication with him whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you close enough to see whether her funnel
was of any special color?
Mr. MooRE. If I can remember rightly it was black, with some
device in a band near the top.
Senator Smith. You have never seen her since that night?
Mr. Moore. I have not seen her since the morning I saw her,
after 9 o'clock in the morning, because she followed me right around
this ice pack, you know, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get any nearer the Titamcs position
given you in the wireless C. Q. D. message than the point you have
just mentioned?
Mr. Moore. At 3.25 I stopped the engines, and then went slowly
to avoid the ice, because it was too dark to proceed full speed on
account of the ice.
Senator Smith. Did you reach the Titanic^ 8 position?
Mr. Moore. I reached the Titanic^s position. I reckon I was very
close to that position, either that position or very close to it, at 4.30
in the morning, sir.
f( . ^,,^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 733
«
Senator Smith. Was there any other vessel there at that time?
Mr. Moore. None except the tramp, sir.
Senator Smith. Except the tramp that cut across
Mr. Moore. That cut across my dow. I could see him then. He
was a little to the southward of me, but aliead of me, sir.
Senator Smith. When you were at that point what did you do
and what did you see ?
Mr. Moore. I saw a large ice pack right to the east of me, sir;
right in my track — right in mv course.
Senator Smith. How large f
Mr. Moore. In consulting my officers as to the breadth of this, one
said it was 5 miles and another said it was 6 miles.
Senator Smith. How wide was it 'i
Mr. Moore. That was the width of it.
Senator Smith. How long was it i
Mr. Moore. Of course it extended as far as the eye could reach,
north and south, sir.
Senator Smith. Twenty miles or more?
Mr. Moore. I should say 20 miles, perhaps more than that. It
was field ice and bergs.
Senator Smith. Bergs also ?
Mr. Moore. Yes ; bergs interspersed in the pack, sir, and bowlders.
Senator Smith. How many bergs were there?
Mr. Moore. I should say, altogether, there must have been between
40 and 50 I counted that morning.
Senator Smith. And varying in size ?
Mr. Moore. Varying in size.
Senator Smith. From what ?
Mr. Moore. Some were very long and square, but very low in the
water. Others were high ana of various shapes.
Senator Smith. How high was the highest — the largest one ?
Mr. Moore. I should say fully-200 feet high, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the height of the Titanic from the
water's edge?
Mr. Moore. On my boat, when she is light, it is about 50 feet from
the water line to my bridge.
Senator Smith. The Titanic^ acocrding to the testimony, was 70
feet from the water line; and you say this largest iceberg that you
saw was 200 feet above the water line?
Mr. Moore. About that, I should think, sir.
Senator Smith. How far were they from you ?
Mr. Moore. We got near to several of them, sir.
Senator Smith. How near ?
Mr. Moore. Not more than a mile or so off, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you become apprehensive when they got that
close ?
Mr. MooRE. Not a mile, sir; oh, no.
Senator Smith. You could see farther away than a mile ?
Mr. Moore. Yes. In some cases you may get close to them; in
others they have long spurs running underneath the water. In
daytime in clear water you can see the spurs, because they show quite
green under the water. Of course, my orders to my officers are to
give them a wide berth ; not take any chances whatever.
734 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. The night that you doubled your lookout did you
use glasses in the crow's nest or have a searchlight, or anything of
that kind ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you ever use glasses in the crow's nest?
Mr. Moore. Never, sir.
Senator Smith. You use them on the bridge?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. Every officer has his own glasses, and then
the ship provides glasses besides.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been in the north Atlantic on a
vessel equipped with searchlights?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I should like your judgment as to whether or not
searchlights in darkness and in fog would prove an advantage in
detecting icebergs in your path?
Mr. Moore. In fog they are utterly useless, sir.
Senator Smith. And in clear weather?
Mr. MooRE. If you had a very powerful projector it might be of
some use, but in fog it would be just like throwing that light on a
blank wall.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been aboard a British battleship
or any ship of the Britivsh Navy?
Mr. MooRE. Not for many years, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you ever been aboard any ship that found a
buoy with a searchlight?
Mr. MooRE. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know if it is not customary in tortuous
channels to search out even minute objects, like buoys marking the
course in the river or sea, with searchlights?
Mr. MooRE. I have never had any experience. Of course, I know
they use the searchlight in the Suez Canal.
Senator Smith. How do you know it ?
Mr. Moore. From conversations with others, and I have heard so
from my officers who have been through the Suez Canal.
Senator Smith. They rely on the searchlight to quite a consid-
erable extent in going through the Suez Canal, do they not?
Mr. Moore. Yes ; but the ships are going very slowly, sir.
Senator Smith. You know the British naval vessels are equipped
with searchlights?
Mr. Moore. Yes; I have seen them very often when I have been
going up the English (Channel. I have seen them very often using
those, sir. .
I should say a very powerful light would be of use in an ice pack,
sir, provided there was no fog.
Senator Smith. I want to go back to the scene of the Titanic col-
lision for a moment. When you arrived at the Titanio^s position,
it was along after 4 in the morning?
Mr. Moore. Half past 4, sir; that is, I reckoned we were at that
position at half past 4, sir.
Senator Smith. Monday morning?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. After the wreck?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
it ,.»».^««^ *f
TITANIC DISA6TBB. 786
Senator Smith. What did you see there, if anything ?
Mr. MooBE. I saw nothing whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Any wreckage from the Titardct
Mr. MooRE. I saw nothing; but I saw this tramp steamer, sir.
Senator Smith. No wreckage}
Mr. Moore. Nothing whatever, sir, in the way of wreckage.
Senator Smith. Any floating corpses ?
Mr. MooBE. Nothing at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Any abandoned lifeboats?
Mr. Moose. Nothing whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Any floating bodies?
Mr. Moore. Nothing whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did you stay in that position ?
Mr. Moore. We searched around to see if there was a clear place
we could go through, because I feared the ice was too heavy for me
to push through it. Of course, I reckoned I was somewhere near^
if not at, the Titamc' 8 position that he gave me, which afterwards
proved correct, when 1 got observations in the morning, sir. I
searched for a passage to get through this pack, because I realized
that the Titanic could not have been through that pack of ice, sir.
I steered away to the south-^southeast true, because I thought the
ice appeared thinner down there, sir. When I got down, I got
within about a mile or so of this other ship, which had already
stcmped, finding the ice was too strong for it to go through.
Senator Smith. What did you do after discovering that there was
no wreckage nor any service you could render?
Mr. Moore. When I found the ice was too heavy, I stopped there
and just turned around — slowed down and stopped ner — and
searched for a passage, and I could not see any passage whatever,
sir. I had a man pulled up to the masthead in a bowlme, right to
the foretopmast head, and I had the chief officer at the mainmast
head, and he could not see any line through the ice at all that I
could go through.
Senator Smith. Some passengers on your vessel, Sunday night
about midnight, claim to have seen these rockets from the decks of
the Titanic, Have you heard anything about that?
Mr. Moore. I have read it in the papers, sir; but as a matter of
fact, I do not believe there was a passenger on deck at 12 o'clock at
night. I am positive, because they would not know anything at all
about this, and you may be sure that they would be in their beds.
I know the steward tells me there was nobody on deck; that is, the
ni^ht watchman at the aft end. At the forward end there was
nobody on deck. The man in what we call the permanent steerage
that passes under the bridge deck — we have a permanent steerage
there, and the other, of course, is a portable one we can take down —
and nobody saw a passenger on decK, sir.
Senator Smith, x ou were on the bridge immediately following
the warning?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; I was on the bridge.
Senator Smith. And the danger call?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you make an effort to see this vessel or its
lights or signals ?
40475— PT fr— 12 2
7^6 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. Moore. Oh, yes, sir ; I had all the officers on deck as soon as
ever we turned around. I sent down and got all the officers and the
crew out and we commenced to swing the l^ats out.
. Senator Smith. And got ready to give assistance?
Mr. Moore. We had tne gangway ready for lowering, and we had
ladders ready to put over the side ; we had ropes with riggings in
the ends to lower over; we had lifeboats and life belts and every-
body was on hand and everything was all made ready along the deck-
Senator Smith. How many lifeboats did you have ?
Mr. Moore. Twenty, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the passenger capacity of your vessel ?
Mr. Moore. We could accommodate about 1,000 in the lifeboats.
Senator Smfth. About 1,000 in the lifeboats ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many could you accommodate in the Mount
Temple^ comfortably ?
Mr. Moore. With the 20 boats, sir; we reckoned we could accom-
modate 1,000 people in them.
Senator Smith. I guess we do not understand each other. I want
to know if you can tell me what the passenger capacity of the Mount
Temple is? How many people is that' ship arranged to accommo-
date?
Mr. Moore. They had no permanent arrangement
Senator Smith (interposing). Is it a passenger boat?
Mr. Moore. She is really not what you call a passenger boat. We
are an immigrant ship. We simply have passenger accommodations
I)ermanently for about 160 passengers, and 6 in the second cabin.
Senator Smith. How many in the second cabin ?
Mr. MooRE. Six. We have two rooms.
Senator Smith. Two rooms in the second cabin ?
Mr. Moore. That is our saloon.
Senator Smith. And accommodations for about 160 passengers?
Mr. Moore. 160 permanent, sir.
Senator Smith. And you carry 20 lifeboats ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Besides the life belts?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were those lifeboats the standard lifeboats ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Or were they collapsible?
Mr. Moore. There were only two collapsible boats, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any emergency boats?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many ?
Mr. Moore. There are four on the lower deck.
Senator Smith. Besides those 20?
Mr. Moore. Those are included in the 20.
Senator Smith. And two coUapsibles?
Mr. Moore. Two coUapsibles.
Senator Smith. And, altogether, your emergency boats, coUapsi-
bles, and lifeboats numbered 20?
Mr. Moore. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. How did you happen to have just 20?
'' TITANIC " DISASTER. 787
Mr. Moore. There are eight pairs of davits on each side. We had
two aft inside of the others — inside of the ones under the davits —
and there were two collapsible boats on the boat deck amidships.
Senator Smith. My question was directed to whether or not the
20 lifeboats you carried on the MownJb Temj>le^ with a passenger
capacity of 160 people, were in accordance with the reiruhtions of
the British Board of Trade?
Mr. Moore. Oh, yes, sir ; we had more than our requirements from
the British Board of Trade— that is, for the tonnage of the ship.
Senator Smith. So, if any accident had happened to your vessel,
such as happened to the Titanic^ on a clear, calm night, with no sea,
you had ample accommodations
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
^ Senator Smith. One moment, please. You had ample accommoda*
tions on the Mount Temple for your passengers, had you?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How many would those lifeboats hold?
Mr. Moore. About 50. I am giving you the permanent acconimo-
dations, sir. We had 1,461 steerage passengers.
Senator Smith. I was coming to tne steerage, and I was coming
to the crew.
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But I was talking at this moment about the pas-
sengei^s. You could have cared for the passengers, first class and
second class?
Mr. Moore. No; we had no first class, sir.
Senator Smith. What are the 160?
Mr. Moore. That is, 166 we had permanent accommodations for.
We call that the permanent steerage.
Senator Smith. In addition to that, you had your steerage accom-
modations?
Mr. Moore. Below decks.
Senator Smith. And your crew?
Mr. Moore. And the crew, sir.
Senator Smith. How many compose the crew?
Mr. Moore. About 130, sir.
Senator Smith. What will the steerage accommodate ?
Mr. Moore. We expected to have 2,200 steerage passengers, but
instead of that we had only 1,461 ; but we were fittM up for 2,200.
Senator Smffh. And you had 20 lifeboats?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; we had 22 lifeboats when we left London, so
we would have two extra boats on board, sir.
Senator SMrrn. You have given the capacity of vour boats for
passengers, steerage and crew, and that would include carrying the
immigrants?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you wish to be understood as saying that you
did not see, on Sunday night or Monday morning, any signal lights
from the Titanic f
Mr. Moore. I can solemnly swear that I saw no signal lights, nor
did my officers on the brid^ see any signal lights.
Senator SMrrn. What kind of wireless equipment has the Mount
Templet
Mr. Moore. Marconi, sir.
738 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. How many operators ?
Mr. Moore. Only one, sir.
Senator Smith. What are his hours?
Mr. Moore. He has no special hours.
Senator Smith. How did he happen to be on duty at 12.30 mid-
night, Sunday night?
Mr. Moore. I don't know, sir. I think it was just about the time
he was turning in. He just picked up the instrument just to see if
there was anyuiing coming along. It was just purely and simply an
accident that he got the ship's message.
Senator Smith. It was an accident that he got it at all ?
Mr. Moore. Simply an accident
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether you were in com-
munication with any other vessel, by wireless, after you got the
C. Q. D. call from the Titanic f
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What other vessel ?
Mr. MooRE. I think, but I am not certain, we were in communi-
cation with the Birma. In any case, we heard those three messages,
sir.
Senator Smith. Are you now reading from the log?
Mr. Moore. No ; this is from the Marconi man's report to me. '
Senator Smith. This is from the operator's minutes?
Mr. Moore. I have my own notes, sir, that he sent up occasionally
to me. Would you like to have me read them, sir?
Senator Smith. I would.
Mr. Moore. This is the second message that he received — that he
picked up, I should say.
He was sending these messages to me. He says :
Has got Carpathia, and tells him position 41 •* 46' longitude, 50* 14'.
If you will observe, this latitude and longitude is different from
the one which we first received.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. MooRE. But this message came almost immediately after the
first one.
Senator Sbcith. He is giving you the TitanuPs position?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And what was it, again, please?
Mr. MooRE. ^^ Has got the Carpaihia.^'^ That means to say that the
Titanic has got the Varpathia,
Senator Smith. Exactly.
Mr. MooRE. Position, 41° 46' north; 50° 14' west." You will
see that that is 10 miles more to the eastward than the first position
he gave, but this message came immediately after the first one*
Senator Smith. How long a time after ; imn^ediately ?
Mr. Moore. Almost immediately after, sir.
We have struck iceberg. Come to our assistance at once.
That is the message he gives the Carpathia.
Senator Smfth. Where did you get it?
Mr. Moore. Almost immediately upon turning back. That is the
position I worked to, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get it from the Titanic or through the
Carpathia?
€< -«p«.^^»^ ff
TITANIO DISASTER. 739
Mr. MooBE. It was a message passing between them, and I caught
it.
Senator Smith. You got the message that was intended for the
Carvathiaf
Mr. MooRB. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You caught that?
Mr. MooBB. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you have read it in the record ?
Mr. MooBE. Yes, sir.
We have struck ic^erg. Come to our assistance at once.
Senator Smith. Who signs that f
Mr. Moore. It is not signed at all. These were just sent up to me
as the operator received them.
This IS another message received. I can not say as to the order
in which they were received. I do not think that will make very
much difference, however, sir.
Senator Smith. If you can give the time, I wish you would do so.
Mr. MooBs:
Olumpic sends this message to Titanic: "4.14 a. m. 6. M. T. Position 40"
22' N., 61** 18' W. Are you steering southerly to meet us? Haddock." Titanic
says, " We are putting the women off in the boats."
You see that would be just 11° to the westward of our position
when we got tiie message, the C. Q. D.
Position 40' 22' N., 61" 18' W. Are you steering southerly to meet us?
Haddock.
You see he did not realize that the ship was in such a bad plight
Senator SMmi. And he asked the Titanic if he was steering
southerly to meet him ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. The Titanic says :
We are putting the women off in the boata
Senator Smith. That is signed Haddock ?
Mr. MooRE. Signed Haddock ; yes ; and the Titanic says :
We are putting the women off in the boats.
Senator Smith. Have you read all of that message?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Then, what did you pick up, or what did you send
next?
]$f r. Moore. I did not send anything at all, sir. This is a message
that we caught :
Titanic says engine room flooded. Olympic sends, "Am lighting up all pos-
Bible boilers as fast as can.''
But he was a day's sail away from him, sir.
Senator Smith. The Olympic was a day's sail away from the
Titaruc'^8 position?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. I dare say a little more than that.
Then, there is another message that the Marconi man sends to him :
Still calling distre&s.
Senator Smith. That is your operator?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. He sends a message to you at the bridge that he
is still calling distress ?
740 '* TITANIC *' DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. Still calling distress, sir.
CarpatJiia asks if he wants any si)ecial boat to wait on him. Titanic aays,
" We want all we can get."
I do not think anybody realized at the time that it was so bad, sir.
Senator Smith. Is there any date on this last memorandum?
Mr. Moore. No date. He sends these up to me as he receives them,
sir.
Senator Smith. After you went on the bridge ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. These were all received when I was on the
bridge, sir.
Senator Smith. And between the hours of 12.80 a. m.
Mr. Moore. Up to the time we received the message from the Car-
pathia saying that nothing more could be done; that we need not
stand by.
Senator Smith. What further message did you receive from any
other vessel ?
Mr. Moore. Well, I can not say whether we were in direct com-
munication, because our operator did not want to block the other
messages, because they were going around, and because we were
simply picking up these messages. [Referring to memorandum:]
He tells Olympic, "Captain says get your boats ready; we are going down
fast by the head."
Senator Smith. This was fr(mi the Titanic?
Mr. Moore. From the Titanic.
Senator Smith. You are giving these messages in the order in
which you received them?
Mr. MooRB. I do not know ; I can not say, because as I received
them I put them in my pocket.
Senator Smith. Evidently that was later than the one that pre-
ceded it in your reading, because she was going down by the head
then, he says.
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. He seems to have got hold of the Olympic
and kept on with him, sir.
Senator Smith. His communications were running with the Olym-
pic at that time?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; and we picked them up.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Moore (referring to memorandum) :
•
S. S. Frankfurt (German) gives Titanic his position at 12 p. m., 39° 47' N-,
52'* 10' W. Titanic aslis "Are you coming to our assistance? " Frankfurt aalcB
"What Is the matter?'* Titanic replies "We have struck Iceberg and sinking.
Please tell captain to come." Titanic still calling distress. Frankfurt seems
nearest to him according to strength of signals.
Senator Smith. What are you reading from ?
Mr. MooRB. This is what my operator sent up to me. These are
the messages he sent up to me, the original messages.
Senator Smith. Received by your wireless operator on the Mouni
Temple f
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And taken to you at the bridge?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that signed ?
Mr. Moore. This is signed " J. Durrant.'' He was my operator.
(4 ^ .,^,« }f
TITANIC DISASTER. 741
Senator Smith. Did you know of the Frcmkfurfs position?
Mr. MooRE. He gives his position there, sir.
Senator Smith. He does not give his position, does he?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Not the Frankfurt?
Mr. Moors. The Frankfurt says that at 12 o'clock his position is
89^ 47', sir.
Senator Smith. But this wireless message says that he judges by
the strength of his signals or messajges that the Frankfurt is nearest.
Mr. Moore. But he gives his position, sir.
Senator Smith. That is the position at the time this last message
was sent, which you have handed over; at the time that was de-
livered ?
Mr. Moore. The Frankfurt gives his position as 39° 47' N., 62^
10' W., sir.
Senator Smith. You must excuse me for being so minute about it,
but I want to find out whether the Frankfwrt made any effort at all
to reach the TitanuPa position.
Mr. Moore. Of course, this is by the operator, his personal state-
ment, that he seems to be the nearest on account of the strength of the
message. As a matter of fact, you see he was one degree to the west-
ward of my position, or pretty near it, when I first ^med around.
Senator Smith. The testimony shows that from the strength of the
wireless impact, if it may be called that, he judged that the Frank-
furt was nearest?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But the testimony also shows that the Titanic
operator, when the Frankfurt asked what was the matter 20 minutes
after receiving the C. Q. D., replied " You are a fool ; keep out."
Now, I am aslang you in detail about the Frankfurt because I desire,
if possible, to get some authentic information regarding her conduct
after receiving that C. Q. D. call.
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Now, proceed.
Mr. Moore. This is another message [indicating]. This is a note
to me from the Marconi man:
OlymfHc sent tbat message at 1.90, this ship's time.
That means the time of my ship.
Titanic acknowledged it, but has not spoken since, although Olympic, Baltic,
and Frankfurt calling him.
That is one hour after I received my first message that we caught
the C. Q. D., " He has not spoken since."
Senator Smith. Let us see what other vessels
Mr. MooBE. Perhaps I had better read it through.
Senator Smith. I think that is best.
Mr. Moore:
Olympic sent that message at 1^ this ship's time. Titanic acknowledged it
but has not spoken since, although Olympic, Baltic, and Frankfurt calling
him. American ship —
Which proved to be a Russian ship, sir —
name unknown, tells Frankfurt he is 70 miles off Titanic.
Senator Smith. This Russian ship is that distance ?
742 . '^ TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. It says here American ship, but it turned out to be
a Russian ship named the Birma^ 70 miles off, a much faster ship
than our vessel.
Senator Smith. Proceed.
Mr. Moore. That is all that I have.
Senator Smith. You hold in your hand the minutes of the wire-
less operator?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Do those minutes disclose any facts or circum-
stances more complete than the memoranda you have just filed
regarding the position of the Titanic and the position of other iships
on Sunday or Monday ?
Mr. Moore. I think those cover it; but if you like, I will read
these out.
Senator Smith. I think we had better have them.
Mr. Moore. This is a copy of the operator's book; a copy he puts
in his book :
Time remarks, p. m., Sunday evening, April, 1912.
This is New York time, sir:
9.55. Signals with M. P. A., nil.
10.25. Titanic sending C. Q. D. Answer him, but he replies " Can not read
you, old man, but here is my position — 41** 46' N., 50° 14' W. Come at once.
Have struck berg." Informed captain.
Senator Smith. " Come at once, have struck bergt "
Mr. Moore. " Have struck berg. Informed captain.'' That is my
operator who informed me, sir.
10.85. Carpathia answers " M. O. Y."
Which is the TitamCj I understand, says :
Struck Iceberg. Come to our assistance at once.
Sends position.
10.40. M. G. Y.—
That is the code of the Titanic.
Still calling C. Q. D. Our captain reverses ship and steams for M. G. Y.
We are about 50 miles off.
That is, roughly, the position I gave him, which afterwards
proved within a mile, as far as I could say.
10.48. Frankfurt answers " M. G. Y."
Which is the Titanic.
Titanic gives his position and asl^s, "Are you coming to our assistance?
D. F. T."—
That is the Frankfurt.
Asks, "What is the matter with you?" M. G. Y. replies, "We have struck
iceberg and sinking. Please tell captain to come.*'
Senator Smith. Let me see. "M. G. Y." was the message from
the Titanic f
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. He has given me the code here, according
to each ship, sir.
Senator Smith. That indicates that the second message was a
further call of distress?
t( .-^^.^..^ 99
TITANIC DISA8TBB. 743
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. Of course, the distress signal was going.
We first caught it at 12.30 by our ship's time, sir.
Senator Smith. You think we are getting what the Frankfurt
got?
Mr. Moore. These are the messages that crossed between the two
ships, sir, which we caught.
Senator Smith. The Titanic and the Frarikfwrtf
Mr. Moore. Yes. I have a code here. Perhaps I had better give
the names.
Senator Smith. I wish you would.
Mr. Moore.
Frankfurt asks, " What Is the matter with yoa? " Titanic replies, " We have
struck Iceberg, and sinking. Please teU captain to come.*' "O. K. Will tell
the bridge right away."
That means that the Frankfurt asked if the Frankfurfs operator
should tell the captain of the Frankfurt right away, and the other
man says, "O. K. Yes; quick." That is, the Titanic^s man said,
"Yes; quick."
10.55. Titanic calling S. O. S.
which is the other distress si^al — the new distress signal.
Senator Smith. The signal of the Berlin convention ?
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir ; I suppose it is.
10.57. Ditto.
10.60. Working M. R. A.
Senator Smith. Who is that?
Mr. MooRE. That must mean that he is not working with the regu-
lar current, sir; that perhaps he is on his auxiliary. I can not
understand that. I think that must be the auxiliary.
Senator Smith. I think I understand you. Captain, and I thought
I did at first, because the water had at that time submerged the other
source of electric supply.
Mr. Moore. The dynamo, sir.
Senator Smith. And he was now drawing on his auxiliary from
the upper deck?
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that is what that indicates ?
Mr. MooRE. But before that, sir, he is still calling "M. K. C,"
whatever that is. I will look that up. j| After referring to code.]
"M. K. C." means Olympic, He is calling the Olympic^ then, at
10.59.
Working M. R. A.
That must be the auxiliary, because that is not a code for any ship
he has given me.
11 o'clock. CaUing M. G. N. and C. Q. D.
"M. G. N." is the Virginian.
11.10. GaUing G. Q. D.
Senator Smith. Do you know who " M. R. A." referred to ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir; I think that must be the auxiliary, because
there is nothing here. Perhaps I have made a mistake. This looks
like " M. P. A?'
Senator Smith. Would that be the Corona^ or do you know ?
744 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Mr. Moore. I think there is a mistake there.
Senator Smith. The Carpathia is "M. P, A."?
Mr. Moore. It may be "M. P. A.," but he has "M, R. A." Per-
haps that is the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. I do not want you to guess. If you know, you
may tell.
Mr. MooRE. I think that is the Carpathiaj "M. P. A." He cer-
tainly has " M. R. A." here, but he has given " M. P. A." for the Car-
pathia, So that would be:
10.59. Working the Carpathia,
11. Calling M. G. N. (the Virginian) and C. Q. D.
That is the distress signal.
11.10. Calling C. Q. D.
11.20. Gets Olympic and says, *' Captain says get your boats ready. Going
down fast at the head." Frankfurt says, " Our captain will go for you."
Senator Smith. What hour is that?
Mr. Moore. 11.25.
11.27. Titanic calling C. Q. D. and Baltic.
11.30. Still doing the same.
11.35. Olympic sends service message to Titanic. Titanic replies, "We are
putting the women off in the boata*'
Senator Smith. Anything else?
Mr. MooRE. Titanic says:
C. Q. D. Engine room flooded.
Senator S^iith. What time is that?
Mr. MooRE. 11.41, sir.
11.43. Titantic tells Olympic, " Sea calm."
11.45. D. K. F.
I do not seem to have gotten that I expect it should be
" D. F. F." ; but he certainly has " D. K. F." He has not given me
that in this code. " D. F, F." is the only one that conmiences with
a "D."
Are there any boats around you already?" No reply.
11.47. Olympic sends service message to Titanic. Titanic acknowledges it
and sends "R. D."
I can not make anything out of that. I suppose it is " regards."
It loolcs like " regards."
Senator Smith. Does that give the hour ?
Mr. Moore. That is 11.47.
11.55. Frankfurt and Russian liner Birma calling Titanic. No reply.
A. m. Monday, April 15, 1912.
12.10. Olympic, Frankfurt, Baltic calling Titanic. No reply.
12.35. Birma tells Frankfurt it is 70 miles from Titanic.
12.50. All quiet now. Titanic has not spoken since 11.47 p. m.
Senator Smith. The last message you picked up from the Titanic
was " regards," was it not ?
Mr. Moore. I really do not know what it was. It says " Rd,"
sir. Of course, we abbreviate sometimes when we are sending
messages.
Senator Smith. I think it was very thoughtful of you, Captain,
to bring the operator's notes. It is the most complete information
we have had concerning messages from the Titanic^ their records
all being destroyed. Have you anything further to read ?
t( ««^»«.^ yy
TITAKIC DISASTER. 745
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; I have a lot, sir.
12.50. All quiet now. Titanic has not spoken since 11.47 p. m.
1.25. Carpaihia sends " If you are there, we are firing rockets."
Senator Smith. This to you %
Mr. Moore. No; he sends this to the Titanic:
If you are there, we are firing rockets.
1.40. Carpathia calling Titanic,
Senator Smith. Let me ask you right there, did you see the rockets
from the Carpathia?
Mr. Moore. I never saw any rockets whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Is it possible that this passenger from Toronto,
who claims to have seen rockets, may have seen the rockets from the
Carpathia at that time?
Mr. Moore. I do not think it possible, sir, because if the Car-
pathia was farther away it is not likely you would see her rockets.
But you see, this ships says she is sending rockets up. So it is
r>ssiDle that other ships may have seen them. I do not know,
thought of sending rockets up, but I thought it far better to let it
alone, because if other ships — they thought thev saw them — ^mi^ht be
coming to me, and I had not seen anything of the Titanic and did not
know exactly where she was; because I think, after all, the Titanic
was further east than she gave her position, sir. In fact, I am
certain she was.
Senator Smith. East or south?
Mr. Moore. East, sir.
Senator Smith. How much farther away?
Mr. Moore. I should think at least 8 miles, sir, of longitude.
Senator Smith. What makes you think so?
Mr. Moore. Because when I got the position in the morning I ^ot
a prime vertical sight ; that is a sight taken when the sun is bearing
due east That position gave me 50° 9^' west. I got two observa-
tions. I took one before the prime vertical and also on the prime
vertical. We were steering north at the time, steering north to go
around this pack again, to look out, to see if we could find a hole
through the ice, and we took these two positions, and th^ both came
within a quarter of a mile of each other; so that the Titanic must
have been on the other side of that field of ice, and then her position
was not right which she gave.
Senator Smith. Does that indicate to your mind the possibility
that after striking this iceberg, in the position that has oeen indi-
cated by these wireless messages, the Titanic drifted
Mr. Moore (interrupting^. Excuse me, sir. It was such a short
time I hardly think the drift would be anything like that, sir ; noth-
ing like that.
Senator Smith. And yoii could not imagine her going far under
her own power after that impact?
Mr. Moore. I understood sne stopped. I don't think she would
go astern on it
1.40. Carpathia calling
Senator Smith (interposing). Just one moment.
746 '' TITANIC " DI8ASTEB.
Does the fact that you found no evidence of the wreck when you
got to the Titatdc^a reported position tend to confirm you in the idea
that her position was 8 miles farther to the southward ?
Mr. MooRE. No; to the eastward.
Senator Smith. To the eastward?
Mr. Moore. Yes.
Senator Smith. That tends to confirm you in that belief?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. My observation was this: My fourth offi-
cer took two observations, and of course, he is a navigator, and, also,
an extra master's certificate is held by him^ which is a better certifi-
cate than mine^ and he took those oteervations both times, and both
of them tallied. One came 50® 9^' west and the other came 50"* 9}'.
Of course, it proved afterwards when, after coming southward and
trying to find some place I could get throurfi, on the way back again — ^I
suppose about 6 o'clock in the morning — ^ttiat I sighted the Carpathia
on the other side of this great ice pack, and there is where I under-
stand he picked up the boats. So this great pack of ice was between
us and the Titanic^s position.
Senator Smith. As given by her?
Mr. Moore. No, sir. I was in that position. I was to the eastward
of the position the Titanic gave me, but she must have been to the
eastward still, because she could not have been through this pack
of ice.
Senator Smith. As I recollect, the captain of the Califomian^ who
was sworn yesterday, and who went to the position given by the
Titanic in the C. Q. D., also said that he found nothing there, but
cruised aroimd this position.
Mr. Moore. I saw the Calif omian myself cruising around there,
sir.
Senator Smith. She was there when you were there?
Mr. Moore. She was there shortly after me, because when I came
to this great pack of ice, sir, as I remarked, I went to the south-
southeast to try to get around there, because I realized that if he was
not in that position — I had come from the westward — ^he must be
somewhere to the eastward of me still. Of course, I had no idea that
the Titamc had sunk. I had not the slightest idea of that.
Senator Smith. At that time?
Mr. Moore. No, sir. It was not until I received word^ from the
Carpathia that she had picked up the boats and the Titanic had
sunk.
Senator Smith. And then you gave it up?
Mr. Moore. I stayed there until 9 o'clock.
Senator Smith. It was not until that time that you gave the
ship up?
Mr. Moore. That I gave up hopes of seeing her, sir, because I was
cruising around all that time.
Senator Smith. How near the (7rt77?a/Am did you get that morning?
Mr. Moore. This pack of ice between us and the Carpathia^ it is
estimated, was between 5 and 6 miles. She did not communicate
anything with us at all. When we sighted her she must have
sighted us.
Senator Smith. On which side of the ice pack was the Calif omian?
Mr. MooRE. The Calif omian was to the north, sir. She was to
the north of the Carpathia and steaming to the westward, because.
it ..^.^.^^^ 9f
TITAlSnO " DIBASTEB, 747
after I had come away and after giving up my attempt to get
through that pack, I came back again and steered back, thinking I
might pick up some soft place to the north. As I was going to the
north tne Calif omian was passing from east to west.
Senator Smith. And you were also cut off from the Garpathia
by this ice pack?
" Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; by this ice pack. He was then north of the
Carpathian and he must have been, I suppose, about the same dis-
tance to the north of the Carpathia as I was to the westward of her.
Senator SMrra. Were there any other vessels in sight at the time
the Titanic was supposed to have gone down ?
Mr. Moore. We saw, as I have mentioned, this tramp steamer.
Senator Smith. And that is all ?
Mr. Moore. About 8 o'clock we sighted the Bimia.
Senator Smith. How far away ?
Mr. Moore. We could just see smoke when we first sighted hen
We just saw the smoke, and I headed that way to kind of intercept
her, and then we saw the yellow mast and the yellow funnel. I
thought it might possibly be the Olympic^ and we steered toward
her. Shortly after she was coming up very fast and we saw she
had only one mast — ^that is, one funnel, rather.
Senator Smith. I recall that, but what I want to get at is this.
The captain of the Carpathia testified before the committee in New
York that he saw but one body in the water.
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When the lifeboats came alongside.
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that he cruised around for an hour or more
after he took these people from the lifeboats on board and saw none*
The captain of the Calif omian said vesterday he saw none. You
sav thii^moming that yo'u saw none? '
Mr. Moore. I saw none whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Does that indicate that the Titanic might have
sunk in a different position?
Mr. Moore. I do not think it proves anything, as far as my going
is concerned, because I must have been at least 5 miles to the west-
ward of where the Titanic sank.
This great field of ice was 5 miles at least between us and the
Carpathia^ where she had picked up these lifeboats.
Senator Smtth. Would it have oeen possible — I hesitate to ask
you — and do you think, from what you saw, it would have been pos-
sible after the Titanic sank for that field of ice to have covered the
place ?
Mr. MooRE. It is just possible, sir, and nothing more. Of course,
that ice had been in the gulf stream and was going with the gulf
stream. The gulf stream, as we know, is always flowing to the east-
iiortheast, and it is just possible that when he struck he might have
been in that ice pack. I do not know whether he got into it or not.
Do the officers say they got into any field ice?
Senator Smith. They say they saw field ice all about them. Do
vou mean the officers of the Titanic?
Mr. Moore. Yes.
Senator Smith. They saw considerable ice — field ice ?
Mr. Moore. Did they see field ice or icebergs ?
748 TITANIC '' DISASXEB.
Senator Smith. Both.
Mr. Moore. From the time I cot there, from about 12.30 — ^the
time I received the call — ^until half past 4, there would be a drift
there of perhaps, say, half a knot an hour.
Senator Smith. There has been an impression among vessel men,
and I think that same impression has extended to the American
Navy, that a sinking ship — ^by the suction as it goes down — will
draw into the vortex quite largelv from the surface of the surround-
ing sea. That theory seems to have been exploded b^ the sinking
of the Titanicj because every officer, thus far, has said that there
was no suction and the wireless operator of the TitamCy who was the
last to leave her, about 1 minute before she sank and disappeared
under the water, says he left her by the starboard side and that
there was an overturned, collapsible lifeboat on the starboard side
that fell upon him and covered nim up in the water and in that posi-
tion— ^with the Titamc sinking — there was no suction.
Mr. MooBE. I should harcuy think that was possible, sir. Any
boat sinking in the water like that, I think, is almost bound to cause
suction. The time I heard there were so many people left on board
I said, "then it is just possible those bodies might never be re-
covered," because there were so many decks, and if these people had
been imderneath those decks, the ship going down would cause the
pressure to be very great and that pressure would have pressed them
up under those decks and it is just a matter that they would never
be released, because as they got lower down there would be such
tremendous pressure that, even supposing the ship listed in any way,
it was not possible for these bodies to withstand the pressure.
Senator Smith. This theory of suction is an old theory of the sea,
is it not?
Mr. MooBE. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It does not seem to have operated in this case
and I think I may be pardoned for saying that when I found the
Carpathian captain saw no bodies, and then found from the testi-
mony of those in the lifeboats that there were hundreds of bodies
all around in the water, I came to the conclusion that they had
either been sucked in with the sinking ship or that they were inclosed
somewhere in the ship.
Some expressions of humor have been noted — rather unusual
among the people — from an inquiry that I made as to whether or
not water-ti^ht compartments in a ship would keep out as
well as hold m water. I have received many telegrams and letters
from people who lost relatives in this accident, who prayed that the
Government might send divers to the ship, not knowing now far she
was below the surface of the water. It seemed to me that the ab-
sence on the water of these bodies that you failed to see and which
the other captains failed to see might inaicate that these bodies were
still inclosed somewhere within the ship.
Of course, I have known for many years that a water-tight com-
partment is not intended as an asvlum for passengers, because this
same captain, who went down with the T'ttomc?, ^showed me over his
ship on one of my voyages and I am quite familiar with the uses of
the water-tight compartment. But that these sorrowing people
might receive some official reply as to whether that would be possi-
ble or not, I took chances of arousing the humor of people not gen-
if . «^ ff
TITAinC DISASTER. 749
erally accustomed to much humor, by asking that question. I as-
sume all responsibility for it. In view of what you say and what
the other two captains say perhaps it had some importance.
Mr. MooRE. It may have oeen that these bulkheads with the water
coming in had collapsed. It may have been that the pressure of the
air had started something up and allowed those bodies to escape. As
the water escaped they might have been disturbed by the water under-
neath the decks or elsewhere and that may have brought these people
out, sir. Of course, she had a very heavy list, I believe. She was
struck on one side. Those compartments would fill. I dare say
some bulkheads would go, but if she took a list as she was falling
it would give some a chance to get clear of the decks, sir.
I am almost sure that when a ship goes down like that the people
underneath those decks would be held underneath them, because the
ship is sinking all the time and the fact of her sinking would bring
about that heavy pressure underneath those decks, as I have men-
tioned.
Senator Smith. Would you think it a desirable thing to have as
part of the equipment of a vessel a permanent buoy made, as far as
it could be so made, of indestructible material, fastened to an inde-
tructible chain or wire, so that in the event of a ship sinking at sea
that buoy might register on the surface of the water its exact burial
spot?
Mr. Moore. It is quite possible to do that kind of thing, unless, of
course, the chain — ^you mean to attach that to the wreck ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Moore. You see, there is such a tremendous depth
Senator Smith (interposing). I understand this boat is in 2 miles
of water ?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; over 2,Q00 fathoms of water.
Senator Smith. But even admitting that, knowing exactly the
depth of the sea from your chart, some such mark or register could
be provided ?
Mr. Moore. If it could be provided by having a ffood flexible steel
hawser, sir, that would be quite possible. It woulahave to be small
on account of the weight, but stnl I think it would be quite possible
to have such a thing.
Senator Smith. Let me ask whether when you arrived at the scene
of the Titanic^s wreck if you had known that she had been equipped
with one or two of these buoys, you would have been inclined to re-
main until you found that buoy or those buoys?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. But, as you say, if this ice had been moved
to the eastward and gone over the position where the ship sank, then
the chances are that we could not see that buoy among the field ice.
Senator Smith. But when the ice field had passed the buoy would
assert itself above the water?
Mr. Moore. Providing the ice itself would not injure the buoy.
Senator Smith. If not injured by the ice or elements it would mark
this burial spot?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you file that operator's report — or had you
finished with it?
Mr. Moore. No, sir ; I had not finished it.
750 '' TITAKIO '* DISASTER.
Senator Smith. You may continue your reading of the operator's
report then.
Mr. MooRB (reading) :
1.58. Birma thinks he hears Titanic, so sends, ** Steaming full speed to yon ;
shall arrive yon 6 in morning. Hope you are safe. We are only 50 miles now."
2.00. Carpathda calls Titanic.
3.00. All quiet. We are stopped amongst pack ice.
That is, our ship, the Mount Temple^ is stopped amongst the pack
ice.
3.05. Birma and Frankfurt working.
That is, the two of them are working together; are sending mes-
sages to each other.
3.20. Birma and Frankfurt working. We back out of ice and cruiBe around.
Large bergs about.
That is, our ship.
We back out of the ice.
3.25. Oalifomian calls 0. Q. I answer him and adyise of Titanic and send
him Titanic'8 position.
3.40. California^ working Frankfurt, Frankfurt sends him the same.
4.00 Caiifornian working Virginian,
4.25. Caiifornian working Birm^k.
5.20. Signals Caiifornian, Wants my position. Said it We are very close.
This is my ship and the Calif omian^ sir. When I get him to con-
firm my position, I ask him if ne can give me his position. I under-
stand he IS cruising, because after we go up toward him he goes to the
south and misses us, passes about a mile on, and then he gets where we
came from. Then we go over the ground, and we have not seen any-
thing of the ship, and we think we must'cruise on farther.
6.00. Much Jamming.
Senator Smith. That is, jamming his operators?
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir.
6.45. Carpathia reports rescued 20 boatloads.
7.15. More Jamming.
7.30. Baltic sends service message to Caiifornian, " Stand by immediately.
You have been instructed to do so frequently. Balfour, inspector.
That is, he sends word to the Caiifornian to stand by, and he says,
" You have been instructed to do so frequently."
7.40. Carpathia calls C. Q. and says, " No need to stand by him ; nothing more
can be done." Advise my captain who has been cruising around the ice field
with no result. Ship reversed. Standing by rest of day. Carpathia and
Olympic very busy.
Senator Smith. Is that all ?
Mr. MooHE. That is all, sir.
Senator Smith. I did not notice in that tabulated statement any
report from the Frankfurt after 12 p. m., New York time. You
picked that up, and it was intended for the Titanic^
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir ; but excuse me, sir, the Frankfort was in com-
munication with these other ships, sir.
Senator Smith. But this is the time when she gave her position ?
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The Frank furfs position?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
ft -^-..^.«^ ff
TITANIC DI8ASTBB. 751
Senator Smith. She did not give her position at any other time?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear or see anything of the Ame7ika on
Sunday, Sunday night, or Monday ?
Mr. Moore. I do not know. I did not see personally
Senator Smith. I think I asked you what you would consider
reasonable and proper precautions to take when approaching an ice
field at night. Did I ask you that ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir ; I do not think you did.
Senator Smith. Well, will you tell us that?
Mr. MooKE. I should certainly stop, sir.
Senator Smith. And increase your lookout?
Mr. Moore. I should stop. Then there would be no need to in-
crease the lookout. If you stop, you then drift with the ice, if the ice
is drifting. My instructions irom my company are that I must not
enter field ice, no matter if it seems only light. Those are my
explicit instructions from my company. If I was to go through ice
and mv ship was damaged I would have pointed out to me that those
were the instructions, that I was not to go into any ice, no matter how
thin. As a matter of fact, I would not attempt to go through field
ice if it was thick. The usual thing, on approaching ice at night, is
to stop and wait until daylight-.
Senator Smith. Captain, from your experience and observation,
extending over 30 years, 27 of which have been in the North
Atlantic
Mr. Moore. From 1885, sir.
Senator Smith. Knowing the position of the Titanic, or about the
position of that ship, when this accident occurred, would you think
it was wise or discreet to run that vessel at a speed of 12J knots
per hour?
Mr. Moore. It has been done so frequently, sir, in that position,
that they are supposed to be clear of all field ice at that time, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you mean at that time of the year?
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir. You may see bergs, but I have never in all
my experience known the ice to be so far south.
Senator Smith. Suppose you had been warned in the afternoon
of Sunday that ice was ahead; would you have considered it prudent
or wise, under such circumstances, to have continued your speed
as fast as 12^ knots per hour ?
Mr. Moore. I think it was very unwise, sir. My orders were to
come down to the same position that the Olympic was in. At least,
I was to come down to 42° north 47° west, and then to steer for Cape
Sable. Before that, I received a message from the Corinthian say-
ing that one of their vessels, the Corsican, had seen ice at 41° 26'
north and 50° 30' west. I immediately steered down to pass 60°
west in 41° 16' north, sir — that is, I was giving the ice 10 miles — and
I came down and saw no ice whatever.
Senator Smith. You received the same warning as the Titanic^
did you not?
Mr. Moore. I do not know whether I received the same warning,
but I received this from the Corinthian, one of the Allan boate.
Whether it was the same message or not, I do not know.
40475— FT 9—12 3
752 ^' TITANIC " DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. The Titanic could have received that same mes-
sage?
Mr. Moore. Oh, yes. It is quite possible that she received it, be-
cause she was bound to meet the Corinthian^ sir.
Senator Smith. And had received substantially that same message
from the Calif omian?
Mr. MooKE. Well, directly I received that message I steered farther
to the south, and I did not see any ice whatever, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you headed for?
Mr. Moore. For 42°, 47°, sir.
Senator Smith. That is, when you turned around you headed
Mr. Moore. Xo; I was coming'down to come to 41° 15', sir. Be-
fore that I was headed for 42°, 47°. sir. That was the position given
to me by my company.
Senator Smith. But when you went south, was it on your trip
toward the Titanic?
Mr. Moore. No, no; outward.
Senator Smith. Or on your route?
Mr. Moore. On my route
Senator Smith. And where were you headed for — what port?
Mr. Moore. I was bound to St. Johns, New Brunswick.
Senator Smith. Can you think of anything that will throw any
light on this sad affair that you have not already spoken of?
Mr. Moore. As to the wav the ship struck the berg or an^'thing of
that kind ?
Senator Smith. Yes; any information that would help us.
Mr. Moore. My theory would be that she was going along and
touched one of those large spurs from an iceberg. There are spurs
projecting out beneath the water, and they are very sharp and
pointed. They are like a jagged rock. My idea is that she struck
one of those on her bilge, and that she ran along that, and that
opened up her plates, the lining of her plates, and the water came
in; and so much water got in that I think her bulkheads could not
stand the strain, and she must have torn herself at a speed like
that, because apparently her speed through the water was not
stopped very much immediately, and, of course, that was a tre-
mendous boiiy, and she must have struck along on her bilge and
opened herself out right along as far as the engine room, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you studied the plan of the Titanic at all ?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Senator Smith. This opinion you are giving is the result of your
own diagnosis?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir; that is what T should say, sir. Of course.
I have been fortunate myself. I have never yet had any injury
from ice, although I have been master in this trade for a very long
time.
Senator Smith. And in the ice region?
Mr. Moore. In the ice regions ; yes sir ; because we go through the
Strait of Belle Isle in the summer time, and I have been 48 hours
in the ice and have passed through 200 miles of ice, arctic ice, just
fresh down from the coast of Labrador, and I have managed to get
through without any accident.
Senator Smith. How far south have vou ever seen ice ?
({ . >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 753
Mr. Moore. I have not been much in the southern trade, sir. Our
routes are nearly always down as far south as 42° north, but
nothing farther, sir.
Senator Smith. What becomes of this arctic ice; does it go down
into the south Atlantic?
Mr. Moore. I think in a great many cases that it is thrown back
on the land, and a great many of these icebergs are thrown into
these deep bays on Newfoundland, and no doubt a great many of
them meet their death in there, because if there is any sea they will
get crowded into these bays, and in time they will smash up and
break each other up on the rocks.
Senator Smith. Did you know the captain of the Titanic or any
of its oflBcers ?
Mr. MooRE. No; I did not.
Senator Smith. Yon do not think of anything bearing on this
inquiry that you would care to say, further than what you have said?
Mr. MooRE. No, sir: that is the only thing — and aliout the bodies
coming up, sir ; of course I never thought of it before. It may be that,
as you say, the ice has covered the spct where the Titanic sank, and
that has kept those bodias under. I think that is a very feasible
suggestion that you have made as to that.
Senator Smith. I am very much obliged for the compliment, be-
cause I am not generally regarded as a mariner, or an authority on sea
conditions.
Mr. MooRE. I think you are perfectly right, sir.
Senator Smith. Is there anything further that you can think of?
Mr. Moore. There is nothing further, sir.
Senator Smith. I am very much obliged to you for your kindness
in responding to our request to come here.
Mr. Moore. I was only too glad to come, sir.
Senator Smith. I do not want any wrong impression to get out
concerning the course of the Moimt Temple after receiving this
warning.
Mr. Moore. I assure you that I did everything that was possible,
sir, consistent with the safety of my own ship and passengers.
Senator Smith. While it mav not be anv consolation to vou, or
anybody else, I want to compliment you upon your care and solici-
tude for the passengers and the property that have come under
your care.
Mr. Moore. I thank you, sir.
Thereupon, at 12.35 p. m., the subcommittee took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The subcommittee reconvened at 2.35 o'clock p. m.. Hon. William
Alden Smith (chairman) presiding.
ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY OF MR. C. H. IIGHTOLLER.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony of Capt. Moore, com-
mander of the Mount Temple^ this morning?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Xo, sir.
754 TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. As I understood from your testimony in New
York, you said there was no suction in the sea at the time and place
where the Titamc disappeared, so far as you were able to observe?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEK. Exactly. The suctionVas hardly noticeable.
Senator Smith. When you said that you twice found yourself
against the grating at the blower, when in the water, did you mean
that you gravitated back toward the blowpipe, or were you pushed
back to it by suction of any kind?
Mr. Lightolx.br. It was the water rushing down the stokeholes
through this blower, which acts as a ventilator, and therefore gives
access to the stokehole, the force of the water rushing down this
blower which naturally carried me back with it, and against the
blower.
Senator Smith. When you last saw the Titanic did you see numer-
ous people on the decks?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Do you mean before I left it?
Senator Smith. Before you left the side of the Titanic^ and while
you were in the water?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I saw no one while I was in the water.
Senator Smith. You could not see the decks very well from that
point. You were below the decks, and could not se^. the upper part
of the ship?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. No, sir; I could not see anything when I was in
the water, at all. I mean to say, I could not see anyone on her decks.
Senator Smith. How far did you swim from the blowpipe to this
overturned collapsible lifeboat upon which you finally escaped from
the wreck?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. I hardly had any opportunity to swim. I was
blown away from this blower by a rush of air, or it may have been
steam. What it was, exactly, I can not say ; but I was blown a con-
siderable distance away from this blower.
Senator Smith. And from that?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. From there I was sucked in as^ain to what we
call the " fiddley," which leads down to the stokehole, I may say. I
presume I was blown away from there. I really can not say exactly,
Then I came up alongside of this overturned boat.
Senator Smith. How long was that before the Titanic disap-
peared ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It might be 10 or 15 minutes.
Senator Smith. And after getting aboard of this overturned life- •
boat you went out some distance from it?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. It was the action of the funnel falling that
threw us out a considerable distance away from the boat.
Senator Smith. You had no oars or other means of propelling that
boat?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. Nothing of any eflFect. We had little bits of
wood ; but they were practically ineffective.
Senator Smith. I have forgotten whether you said that at day-
break you cruised around the place of the wreck ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. At daybreak we were taken on board by one of
our other lifeboats.
Senator Smith. No. 14?
Mr. LiGHTOLLER. The number I can not remember.
Senator Smith. Was that Mr. Lowe's boat ?
(( -«.^. -.^^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 755
Mr. LiOHTOixER. There was not any officer in the boat until I
got in.
Senator Smith. And then?
Mr. LioHTOLLEB. Of course, I took charge.
Senator Smith. And did you cruise around the scene of the wreck?
Mr. LioHTOLLEB. No. sir.
Senator Smith. You then bore toward the Carpathiaf
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No, sir; we held our bow on to the wind. The
boat was too full ; in fact, she was dangerously full, and it was all I
could do to nurse the boat up to the sea.
Senator Smith. I understood you to say that What I particu-
larly desired to know was whether at that time you saw any of the
wreckage or floating bodies, dead or alive?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. I saw none.
Senator Smith. What time did the captain come to the bridge on
Sunday night while you were officer of tne watch ?
Mr. liiQiiTOLLER. 1 think I said about 5 minutes to 9, sir.
Senator Smith. And he remained until you left the watch at 10
o'clock?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. No, sir; I think it was 20 minutes past 9 I said
he left us. It was about that. About 25 minutes he was with us.
Senator Smith. I have not as yet received any information from
any of the surviving officers of the Titanic as to the composition of
an iceberg. I asked one officer of the Titanic^ and he generously
advised me that it was ice. I would like to ask you what, in your
opinion, composes an iceberg in the North Atlantic ?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. As far as I understand, icebergs greatly consist
of pieces broken away from glaciers. These naturally contain a
certain quantity of earth and stones that they have brought down the
valleys with them.
Senator Smith. Is it not a well accepted theorv among navigat-ors
that the coast of Newfoundland, or the Grand Banks, have been
largely made from the deposits of icebergs?
Mr. LiGHTOLLEB. Well, it is a saying among sailors— I can not say
that we have any authority for saying so — that the icebergs have,
to a certain extent, assisted in the formation of the Grand Banks,
centuries gone by, owing to them bringing down earth and these
stones, and meeting the warm current and depositing them.
Senator Smith. I will recall Mr. Franklin for a moment.
FITBTHEB TESTIMONY OF ME. P. A. S. FRANKLIN.
Senator Smith. Mr. Franklin, I was somewhat persistent in my
inquiries from you yesterday as to the time when you received the
first information regarding the collision between the Titanic, of your
line, and the iceberg.
Mr. Fbanklin. Quite right, sir.
Senator Smith. You have been kind enough to file with me tele-
grams, wireless, cable, and otherwise, between your offices in England
and the officers of your ships, and their communications with you.
As we figured out yesterday, your first authentic information came
in answer to a telephone message from you to your office in Montreal
about 2.30 Monday morning?
756 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Franklin. Of course, as I have said before, Senator Smith,
we considered that our first really authentic information came from
Capt. Haddock. Our telephone message to Montreal was to ask if
Montreal could confirm this rumor. Our Montreal representative
replied about an hour later saying that he had confirmation of the
rumor in Montreal.
Senator Smith. That^ comes back to my question. He had his
information from the Virgvnianf
Mr. Franklin. The inrormation in Montreal was reported to have
come from the steamship Virginian.
Senator Smith. And your first authentic information, or official
information, was received from the Montreal office about 2.30 Mon-
day morning?
Mr. Franklin. If you consider that the official information. My
statement has always been, and mv feeling has always been, that our
first authentic information was the information which we received
from Capt. Haddock. My recollection is that the reply of our Mon-
treal representative was to the effect that that rumor was also in
Montreal.
Senator Smith. I read yesterday a quotation from a Montreal
paper, published Monday morning following the catastrophe, giving
suDstantially the same information that you had from Montreal.
Mr. Franklin. Quite right, sir; the same information we had
from the newspapers and the Associated Press prior to calling up
Montreal. Also, when we got to the office we found that there again.
Senator Smith. Which was confirmed by the Montreal communi-
cation?
Mr. Franklin. The Montreal office advised that they had similar
information there.
Senator Smith. Your information from Capt. Haddock, of the
Olympic^ was received between 5 and 6 o'clock on Monday morning?
Mr. Franklin. I have given that telegram.
Senator Smith. I have it accurately; I do not care to have you
guess at it. Have you the message ?
Mr. Franklin. My recollection is the first message we got from
Capt. Haddock was about 9 o'clock, or between 9 and 10.
Senator Smith. Was not that because it was not delivered?
Mr. Franklin. No, sir; I do not think so, because prior to that
time we sent word to all telegraph offices. I would liKe to fix the
message — that is, the message from Capt. Haddock that said he
was 310 miles
Senator Smith. From the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; from the Titanic,
Senator Smith. As far as you can find out, the information you
received through your Montreal office at half past 2 Monday morn-
ing was accurate?
Mr. Franklin. It was marvelouslv correct, as it turned out But
remember, we had that information from the Associated Press before
that.
Senator S^iith. You had rumors, as you described?
Mr. Franklin. The same thing as Montreal.
Senator Smith. Not exactly, because that came through your office,
and the Virginian is owned in Montreal ?
Mr. Franklin. Owned by the Aliens, living in Montreal, or some
of them living in Montreal.
n ^^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 757
Senator Smith. So, really, that was more authentic than the
rumors you speak of?
Mr. Franklin. It seemed so to us, as it was nearer the source of
information than anything else. That is the way I put it.
Senator Smith. That is the reason you went to tnat source ?
Mr. Franklin. That is the reason we went there.
Senator Smith. I was quite persistent, and I do not desire to be
impertinent at all, and I am sure you will acquit me of that
Mr. Franklin. Correct, sir.
Senator Smith. But that I may not overlook any important reason
for the information you received at 2.30 a. m. Monday not becoming
public through any announcement of the White Star Line, and, in
view of the fact that I hold in my hand a telegram signed " White
Star Line," which you have previously seen, dated at 8.27 p. m.,
Monday, April 15, in which some member of the White Star Line
says:
" Titanic proceeding to Halifax. Passengers will probably land there Wednes-
day. All safe.
(Signed) White Stab Line.
And in view of the fact that that same information was given out
here by your agents to people who made inquiries for families and
friends on Monday, I am prompted to ask a very direct question.
Between the time that you received this information from Mon-
treal and the time you made public the information which you re-
ceived from Montreal, did your company reinsure the Titanic or its
cargo anywhere?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely, no.
Senator Smith. Did you make any endeavor to reinsure with the
Lloyd's in England ?
Mr. Franklin. None whatever.
Senator Smith. Are you speaking now for all the officers of your
company, here and abroad?
Mr. Franklin. I say this, that our insurance is handled in our
New York office, and I am sure that nobody would have taken any
action regarding it, or have done anything in connection with it, for
account of our company or anybody connected with the company, in
any way, without first having taken it up with me.
Senator Smith. You had already advised your Liverpool office, in
a message which they received at 10 o'clock Monday morning, of the
loss of the Titanic?
Mr. Franklin. I sent a message, and the memorandum on the mes-
sage shows it went about 6 o'clock, as T remember it.
Senator Smith. In the morning?
Mr. Franklin. In the morning.
Senator Smith. Monday?
Mr. Franklin. They would receive that message five hours later,
their time, barring the amount of time it would take to get the mes-
sage through, depending upon the condition of the wires. That mes-
sage you have already seen.
Senator Smith. I have it here.
Mr. Franklin. That clearly states that it was newspaper rumor.
It does not say anything else." I will read it off to you ii you want
me to.
Senator Smith. Have you a copy of it there ?
758 ^' TITANIC " DISASTER.
Mr. Franklin. I have.
Newspaper wireleps rejiorts
Senator Smith. It is addressed how ?
Mr. Franklin. To Liverpool. You have the original there, Sena-
tor. This only says, " To Liverpool," on the sheet I have.
Newspaper wireless rei>orts ndvlse Titanic collision iceberg 41° 46' nortb, 50*
14' west. Women bein^ put llfeb^ints. Steamer Virffinian expects reach Tf-
ianic 10 a. m. to-cUiy. Olympic and Baltic both proceeding TUanie. We have
no direct information.
I might say that through the entire day we told the newspaper
representatives, who were there all the time — we got our first infor-
mation from the newspapers, and we told the newspapers all the
time — ^that our only authentic information was coming from Capt.
Haddock and we were giving them that.
Senator Smith. If your officials in Liverpool or London, or any
place else, had reinsured your cargo would you have known it ?
Mr. Franklin. I would certainly have had the advice. But there
was nobody in England who was in any way .connected with the in-
surance department and nobody there who would have taken any ac-
tion in connection with insurance matters. I might say we carry
no insurance on the cargo. Senator. *
Senator Smith. None at all ?
Mr. Franklin. We only insure the freight money; the insurance
is not on the cargo itself, but on the freight money.
Senator Smith. This ship was insured for $4,000,000?
Mr. Franklin. This ship was insured with outside underwriters
for $5,000,000, in round figures. It was, in pounds, about a million
pounds. The company carried the remainder, up to about $600,000 —
between $500,000 and $600,000. That is, our insurance fund carried
the remainder.
Senator Smith. I asked you yesterdav if I had all telegrams and
cable messages and wireless messages Wtween yourself and other
officers or directors of the company ?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Either on shipboard or in any other part of the
world?
Mr. Franklin. To the best of my knowledge and belief, you have
everything.
Senator S^iith. Regarding this accident ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. On the succeeding days?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir ; and on subsequent days.
Senator Smith. That is all.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONY OF ANDEEW CUNNINGHAM.
The witness was sworn bv the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside?
Mr. Cunningham. In Southampton, England.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Cunningham. Thirty-eight.
i< . ^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 759
Senator Smith. What is your business?
Mr. Cunningham. I was stateroom steward on the Titanic.
Senator Smith. What deck were you assigned to, if any?
Mr. Cunningham. C deck ; aft, on the starboard side.
Senator Smith. How man^ rooms did you have charge of?
Mr. Cunningham. Nine, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know who occupied those rooms on the
voyage from Southampton to the place of the wreck of the Titanic?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who were they?
Mr. Cunningham. In number 85 were Mr. and Mrs. Bradley Cum-
mings, of New York City ; in 87 Mr. and Mrs. Clark, of New York
City ; in 89 W. T. Stead, the editor of the Review of Reviews, from
London ; in number 91 were a Mr. and Miss Graham, of New York
City; in 125 was a Miss Schutz, a governess to Miss Graham. The
other cabins were vacant.
Senator Smith. Where were you the Sunday afternoon and eve-
ning preceding this accident?
Mr. Cunningham. It was my afternoon oflF. I was off that Sun-
day afternoon.
Senator Smith. You were off that afternoon?
Mr. CuNNiNofeAM. Yes, sir. It happened to be my turn for the
middle watch, or from 12 to 4. So I was excused from duty from 9
until the time I was called to go on the middle watch.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty when this accident happened?
Mr. Cunningham. I was just called, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do when you found that there wa&
an accident?
Mr. Cunningham. I was stationed on D deck, forward, that night.
Senator Smith. In charge of what?
Mr. Cunningham. On the bells ; to answer bells — the wants of any
passengers.
Senator Smith. Were you on D deck at the time the impact
occurred ?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you ?
Mr. Cunningham. I was leaving the glory hole, where we lived.
Senator Smith. After the ship struck this obstacle, what did vou
do?
Mr. Cunningham. I answered one or two of the bells. The ladies
wanted to know how to put on life belts. There had been no order
passed then. They asked me how to put them on, and I showed
several of them ; six or seven probably. I do not know their names. I
looked down on E deck to see how things were there. There was a
stairway that led from the E deck to the post office, and the water
was down there then. That was level with F deck.
Senator Smith. Do you know the names of any of the passengers
on D deck whom you assisted that night?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir; it was not my section.
Senator Smith. Have you ever seen any of them since?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; I saw one maid on the Carpathia after-
wards.
Senator Smith. What was her name?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not know.
760 '^ TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Was that Miss Graham's maid?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. She was no one you had known before: no one
from your special section on the ship ?
Mr. Cunningham. No; only seeing her on the ship.
Senator Smith. Did you look about the Carpathia to see whether
anv of those passengers whom you had assisted were on board ?
Mr. Cunningham. I saw 5 of my own passengers.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Cunningham. Mr. and Miss Graham and the governess, and
Mrs. Clark, and Mrs. Cummings.
Senator Smith. Did you make diligent search ?
Mr. Cunningham. On the Carpatniaf No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the others survived or were
lost?
Mr. Cunningham. My own people? They were lost, sir.
Senator Smith. After you found that there was water in the post
office, what did you do?
Mr. Cunningham. There was another bell rung, and I came up
and answered it>
Senator Smith. Was there any signal given or order given, within
your hearing, to arouse the passengers from their staterooms ?
Mr. Cunningham. Oh, yes. AlK)ut half-past 12 all the stateroom
stewards came on duty again, to their respective stations. I went
back to my own station on C deck, and my passengers had then been
aroused. There were only three left, then.
Senator Smith. At half -past 12?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any order of that kind given before
half-past 12?
Mr. Cunningha3i. No, sir.
Senator Smith. That was about 55 minutes after the ship had
struck the iceberg?
Mr. Cunningham. Forty-five or fifty minutes; I think she struck
about a quarter to 12.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any of the passengers were
ffiven any warning by any order or by any person before that time ;
do you know that of your own knowledge?
Mr. Cunningham. Not that I know of. A sort of a general order
was passed around.
Senator Smith. At that hour?
Mr. Cunningham. At that hour.
Senator Saiith. Were you awake when this collision occurred?
Mr. Cunningham. I had just been called to go on watch.
Senator S^ii th. Were you dressed, or were you in bed ?
Mr. Cunningham. I was lying on my bunk with my clothes on.
Senator Smith. Who called you?
Mr. Cunningham. One of the other stateroom stewards.
Senator Smith. What did he say to jou ?
Mr. Cunningham. lie said, " It is time to turn out."
Senator Smith. Is that all he said ?
Mr. Cunningham. That is all he said.
Senator Smith. When did you first learn of the very serious char-
acter of the collision?
i< . ^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 761
Mr. Cunningham. From my own knowledge, when I saw the
water in the post-office deck, I thought it was pretty bad then.
Senator Smith. That was the first information that you got that
was reliable, and you then formed your opinion ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. About its seriousness? You yourself judged as
to its seriousness at that time.
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether they had an emergency
alarm on the Titanic at that time ?
Mr. Cunningham. To call all the passengers?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cunningham. I do not think so.
Senator Smith. You do not think they had?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In the absence of such an alarm, how would the
passengers be awakened in case of distress?
Mr. Cunningham. Each stateroom steward would go around and
call them, himself.
Senator Smith. Then, if they were apprised of serious danger,
they would be obliged to depend entirely upon the vigilance of the
stateroom steward ?
Mr. Cunningham. That is so, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you return to your stateroom after you
found that there had been a collision ?
Mr. Cunningham. About half past 12, when the order was given
to awaken all the passengers, I went back to my own section — C deck,
aft — and all my passengers were gone out except three.
Senator Smith. They had gone out ?
Mr. Cunningham. They had gone up on the boat deck with life
belts on, all except three.
Senator Smith. How do you know they had gone up there?
Mr. Cunningham. Because the stewardess had called the ladies
and they were not in their rooms.
Senator Smith. The stewardess told you ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes.
Senator Smith. And where were the other three ?
Mr. Cunningham. Mr. Cummings was in his stateroom.
Senator Smith. Asleep ?
Mr. Cunningham. No; he had come down for an overcoat. He
had been on deck. Later, Mr. Clark came alon^ and entered his
stateroom and he then put on a life belt. Then Mr. Stead asked me
how to fix on a life belt and I helped him put it on and that waa
the last man of my passengers.
Senator Smith. Y ou put the life belt on Mr. Stead, yourself ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That was the last life belt you adjusted to any
one?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see Mr. Stead after that ?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Then you assisted these ladies you have men-
tioned to put life belts on — four or five altogether — and Mr. Stead t
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
762 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you put life belts on any other persons?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir; not that evening.
Senator Smith. Or at any other time ?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you put one on yourself?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; when all the passengers had gone out
Senator Smith. After the passengers from your staterooms had
gone up, you put a life belt on yourself?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes.
Senator Smith. And where did you go ?
Mr. Cunningham. I waited on the ship until all the boats had
gone and then I took to the water.
Senator Smith. You waited on the ship until all the boats had
gone and then threw yourself into the water ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; into the water.
Senator Smith. How long was it before the boat sank?
Mr. Cunningham. I went in the water about 2 o'clock, I should
Bay.
Senator Smith. How long had you been in the water before the
boat sank?
Mr. Cunningham. I should say about half an hour.
Senator Smith. When you struck the water what did you do!
Mr. Cunningham. I swam clear of the ship, I should say about
three-quarters of a mile. I was afraid of the suction.
Senator Smith. You were swimming away from the suction that
you supposed would follow the sinking?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did you do then?
Mr. Cunningham. I had a mate with me. We both left the ship
together.
Senator Smith. Did he have a life preserver on ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do?
Mr. Cunningham. We saw the ship go down then. Then we
struck out to look for a boat.
Senator Smith. You swam around in the water until you saw the
ship go down?
Mr. Cunningham. Until I saw the ship go down.
Senator Smith. Then vou turned to look for a lifeboat?
Mr. Cunningham. Then I turned to look for a lifeboat; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you see one?
Mr. Cunningham. No. I heard one, and I called to it.
Senator Smith. Did that lifeboat come toward you, or did you go
toward it?
Mr. Cunningham. I went toward it.
Senator Smith. It did not come toward you ?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not think so.
Senator Smith. When you got in it, whom did you find in it?
Mr. Cunningham. There was a quartermaster in cnarge — ^Perkins
or Perkis. It was No. 4 boat. They picked us up. There was also
a lamp trimmer in it named Hemmings, and another sailor called
Foley, and a fireman. The rest were ladies. Two of my own
passengers happened to be there.
Senator Smith. Two of your passengers and Hemmings and
Foley and Perkis and yourself?
i< ^..^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC " DISASTER. 768
Mr. Cunningham. And myself; yes.
Senator Smith. That made six male passengers ?
Mr. Cunningham. Then there was a fireman there, as well.
Senator Smith. What was his name.
Mr. Cunningham. A fellow called Smith — F. Smith.
Senator Smith. Did you see any other man in the boat?
Mr. Cunningham. les. I think there was one of the galley
hands; I am not quite sure.
Senator Smith. What was his name ?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not know. The reason I know the names
of any of them is that Mrs. Cummings, one of my passengers, sent
me around to find out who was in the boat. Otherwise I would not
know their names.
Senator Smith. In addition to that fireman, were there any other .
male passengers in that boat ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes ; I think there was another fireman in the
bottom of the boat; and besides that there was my mate, who died
just after he was pulled in.
Senator Smith. How many women were in that boat ?
Mr. Cunningham. I could not tell you.
Senator Smith. Did you count them?
Mr. Cunningham. They were fairly well crowded. I could not
count them. There was not room to row.
Senator Smith. What boat was it?
Mr. Cunningham. No. 4 boat, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was in charge of it?
Mr. Cunningham. The quartermaster, Perkis.
Senator Smith. You say you foimd Hemmings in the boat?
Mr. Cunningham. Hemmings was in the boat, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know where he reached the boat?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not know where he got in, but he himself
has told me that he was picked up.
Senator Smith. He swam to the side of the boat ?
Mr. Cunningham. He swam to the side of the boat.
Senator Smith. Without a life preserver, 200 yards, and climbed
into this boat?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not know whether he had a life preserver
on or not
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell me accurately, if you can,
or approximately, how many ladies were in that boat and how many
ehilaren were in it?
Mr. Cunningham. I should say there were 40 ladies in that boat*
Senator Smith. Were there any children?
Mr. Cunningham. I did not see any.
Senator Smith. Was it the large lifeboat
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; one of the large ones.
Senator Smith. How many people do you understand a lifeboat
of that size is intended to hold on a calm mght with an unruffied sea?
Mr. Cunningham. I think 60 would be enough.
Senator Smith. And yours had 48 in it?
Mr. Cunningham. Of course, we picked up another man after I
was picked up.
Senator Smith. When you were picked up?
Mr. Cunningham, Just after.
^4 ^ ^ TITANIC ' ' DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. They picked up you and your mate and another
man?
Mr. Cunningham. Another man, yes; one of the storekeepers.
Senator Smith. That makes 49 in there. You have not yet said
whether there were any male passengers?
Mr. Cunningham. I never saw any male passengers.
Senator Smith. Did you hear the testimony of Hemmings, that
15 minutes after the ship struck this iceberg his mate came to his
room and aroused him and told him he hadXut 15 minutes to live;
that this information came from Mr. Andrews, the builder of the
ship, and to say nothing to anyone?
Mr. Cunningham. No. I never heard that until I saw it in the
papers ; last night, I think it was.
• Senator Smith. Did Hemmings say anything to you about that?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you account for a large proportion of
those in that lifeboat being members of your crew and no male pas-
sengers at all?
Mr. Cunningham. Well, as far as I understand, when the boat
left the ship's side there were only about three sailors in it, three
men to man the boat; the rest were picked up.
Senator Smith. How do you know there were only three in it?
You were not there when it was loaded, but you joined this boat out
away from the Titanic, Did somebody tell you?
Mr. Cunningham. There were only about eight or nine men in it
altogether.
Senator Smith. I understand that.
Mr. Cunningham. The majority of them were picked up out of
the water.
Senator Smith. Not after you got aboard?
Mr. Cunningham. When I come in the boat there was Smith, a
fireman: another fireman whose name I do not know: Hemmings:
Foley; and the quartermaster.
Senator Smith. Yourself and your mate, and you picked up an-
other man?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; Prentiss, the storekeeper.
Senator Smith. Did you see the barber, Mr. Whitman, in your
boat?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir; he was not in our boat.
Senator Smith. But this storekeeper you recall ?
Mr. Cunningham. I recall him.
Senator Smith. Did any other person, man or woman, attempt to
enter lifeboat No. 4 after you got into it?
Mr. Cunningham. I never saw any, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the officer in cliarge of lifeboat No. 4 attempt
to go to any persons in the water ?
Mr. Cunningham. I think his was the nearest boat to the scene
of the accident, because he picked up most of the lot, I think.
Senator Smith. But he was some distance off, in order to avoid
the suction?
Mr. Cunningham. He was some distance off.
Senator Smith. What did you next do?
Mr. Cunningham. Well, as soon as I got into the boat, I took an
oar, and we rowed about until morning, until we sighted the Car-
pathia.
tt f9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 766
Senator Smith. Did you row away from the scene of the wreck,
in the direction of the Varpathia?
Mr. Cunningham. We rowed in the direction of the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. Away from the scene of the wreck ?
Mr. Cunningham. Away from the scene of the wreck.
Senator Smith. And did you row all night?
Mr. Cunningham. Up until about half past 7 in the morning,
when we went on board the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. So that you did not lie on your oars there and
drift ; you went in the direction of the relief ?
Mr. Cunningham. Of the relief, as soon as we saw it.
Senator Smith. How far could you sight it?
Mr. Cunningham. It might have been 4 or 5 miles off.
Senator SaiiTH. Did all the passengers, or all the people in your
boat. No. 4, reach the Carpatkia alive 1
Mr. Cunningham. All alive, sir. Of course, we took the two dead
men with us. They were taken on board.
Senator Smith. While you were in the water that night did you
suffer from the cold ?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir; it was very cold.
Senator Smith. Bitter cold?
Mr. Cunningham. Bitter cold; nearly freezing, I should think.
Senator Smith. You had a regular station on the ship, did you
not?
Mr. Cunningham. On the ship; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In time of trouble?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was your station?
Mr. Cunningham. I think it was No. 7 boat, sir.
Senator Smith. On the starboard side?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes; on the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Did you respond to your station when you first
heard of the accident ?
Mr. Cunningham. Go up to the boat, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cunningham. No; I did not.
Senator Smith. Why not?
Mr. Cunningham. 1 waited down in my rooms, closed them all
and shut off the liglits, and went on deck. When I went up there
that boat had gone, I think.
Senator Smith. No. 7 had gone?
Mr. Cunningham. No. 7 had gone.
Senator Smith. Did No. 4 have a lamp on it?
Mr. Cunningham. I do not think so, sir.
KSenator Smith. Did it have water and food?
Mr. CrNNiNoiiAM. It had water, I know.
Senator Smith. Any food?
Mr. Cunningham. There may have been food forward; but I
never heard anvone ask for food. I know there was a tank in the
forward part. There was water there.
Senator Smith. What was your mate's name?
Mr. Cunningham. A man called Sidney Seibert.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, did the boat list provide for
all the crew and all the passengers?
J
766 '' TITANIC '^ DISASTER.
Mr. Cunningham. The boat list is only posted up for the crew,
not of the first-class passengers. It is only stationed there for the
stewards and the galley hands. Of course, there was another list
stationed in the firemen's forecastle for the firemen to see, and also
one stationed for the sailors to see, in their own forecastle. They
were quite distinct from our lists.
Senator Smith. Was your list posted in its proper place ?
Mr. Cunningham. It was posted in its proper place in the pantry.
Senator Smith. You had had no drills between Southampton and
the place of the wreck?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir; only fire drill.
Senator Smith. What did that consist of?
Mr. Cunningham. Getting the hose out and seeing that everything
was all right.
Senator Smith. Taking the hose out?
Mr. Cunningham. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Your mate did not survive ?
Mr. Cunningham. No. sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee the signal
that calls you to your station in case of an emergency.
Mr. Cunningham. We have not any regular signal, sir. You
mean to the boat station ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cunningham. Oh, that is a blast of the whistle from the
bridge ; one long blast of the whistle.
Senator Smith. Did you hear a blast of the whistle giving the
signal that night ?
Mr. Cunningham. No, sir. It is very hard to hear, you know,
when you are between decks.
Senator Smith. It is expected you will hear it, is it not?
Mr. Cunningham. Did I expect to hear it, sir?
Senator Smith. It is expected you will hear that signal?
Mr. Cunningham. I believe so, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any icebergs that morning as you were
rowing toward the Carpathmf
Mr. CuNNiNGHABi. Ycs, sir ; three or four, sir; and a long field of
ice.
Senator Smith. All the passengers on life boat No. 4 were safely
landed on the Cwrpathiaf
Mr. Cunningham. All safely landed, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONY OF FBEDEBIGK D. BAY.
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. What is your full name?
Mr. Ray. Frederick D. Ray.
Senator Smith. Where do you live?
Mr. Ray. No. 56 Palmer Park Avenue, Reading, Burks.
Senator Smith. England ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
t( ,^^.«,,^ 9}
TITANIC DISASTER. 767
Mr. Rat. Thirtv-three.
Senator Smith. Are you a man of family?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; married.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Ray. Steward. I was first-class steward on the Titanic.
Senator Smith. What were your duties?
Mr. Ray. To wait at the tables and see to the saloon generally.
That is all.
Senator Smith. Did you perform that service on the voyage from
Southampton to the place of the wreck of the Titanic?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty on Sunday?
Mr. Ray. Xot a-f ter 9 o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. Sunday morning or evening?
Mr. Ray. Evening.
Senator Smith. Not after 9 o'clock ?
Mr. Ray. Not after 9 o'clock, sir.
Senator Smith. Up to that hour were you on duty ?
^Ir. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. "Where?
Mr. Ray. In the saloon.
Senator Smith. Just give the location of that saloon on the ship.
ilr. Ray. As near to amidships as could be, I should imagine ; about
five decks down and between fore and aft ; about amidships.
Senator Smith. In the main saloon?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know the captain of the Titanic by sight ?
Mr. Ray. Very well, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he in that saloon that night?
Mr. Ray. I did not notice him. sir.
Senator Smith. Would you have noticed him if he had been there ?
^Ir. Ray. It is doubtful, sir. I was waiting on the starboard side,
quite close to him, but I can not remember whether he was there at
dinner that night or not. I did not make any point of remembering.
Senator Smith. Was it his custom to come there ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Often?
^Ir. Ray. To most meals.
Senator Smith. Did he. dine there that night?
ilr. Ray. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Where was his table? ^
Mr. Ray. In the center of the saloon; the sixth table on the for-
ward end of the saloon; back toward the bow of the ship.
Senator Smith. Did he have a personal waiter or steward of his
own?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was he?
Mr. Ray. A man named Phainten, I think it was; I am almost
sure.
Senator Smith. Did he survive?
Mr. Ray. No, sir. He was last seen on the bridge, standing by the
captain.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Ismay in the saloon that night?
-jn475— PT 9—12 4
768 '^ TITANIC '' DISASTEB.
Mr. Kay. I did not notice him, sir. He was on the other side. I ■
believe he had a table on the port side of the saloon, and I was wait-
ing on the starboard side. It being a large saloon and there being
a great number of people there, I would not have noticed him. be-
cause I would not go over to the other side of the saloon. I would g<]
right up on the starboard side.
Senator Smith. Did you know him by sight?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir j very well.
Senator Smith. Did you know he was on board ship ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir ; I have seen him on several occasions.
Senator Smith. I think I understood you to say you did not know
whether the captain dined at his customary place that Sunday
evening or not ?
Mr. Ray. Quite correct, sir.
Senator Smith. If you can remember, whom did you serve on that
voyage from Southampton to the place of the accident, if you know
any by name?
Mr. Ray. Who did I serve?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Ray. I waited on Maj. Butt, Mr. Moore, Mr. Millet, Mr. Clark,
and Mrs. Clark.
Senator Smith. Any others?
Mr. Ray. That is all, sir.
Senator Smith. What time did they dine on Sunday night?
Mr. Ray. Mr. Moore and Mr. Millet dined together about 7.30.
and finished dinner about 8.15. Maj. Butt was not down, because he
was dining in the restaurant.
Senator Smith. Did you know with whom he was dining?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you since heard from anyone whether he was
dining with the captain?
Mr. Ray. No, sir. I heard since that he was dining with the
Wideners. I do not know whether it is true or not, thou^ sir ; that
is only what I heard.
Senator Smith. From whom did you hear that? Just to refresli
your recollection, let me ask whether you understood from anybody
that Mrs. Widener gave a dinner in the cai4 that night, Sunday
night, to the captain of the ship, Mr. and Mrs. Carter, Mr. and Mrs.
Thayer, Harry Widener, jr., and Maj. Butt? Was this the report
that you heard?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir. I think it was Mrs. Moore. I saw Mrs. Mtwre
after I arrived here. I think it was. I heard Maj. Butt was dining
with the Wideners. I did not hear it on the ship.
Senator Smith. You do not know who waited on them in the cafe ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir. No survivor. There was only one survivor, I
believe, from the restaurant.
Senator Smith. Who was he?
Mr. Ray. He was a scullion.
Senator Smith. He was a dishwasher, was he not?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir; a dishwasher, to be more correct; and there
were two lady clerks. They would probably remember. They are
not here. They are survivors, but they have gone back to England.
Senator Smith. You say none of the stewards in the cafe survived
except
t( 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER, 769
Mr. Ray (interrupting). No stewards; the two lady clerks and
the dishwasher.
Senator Smith. How many people were employed in that cafe?
Mr. Ray. I believe over 100. I do not kaow how maay, but I
think over 100.
Senator Smith. Over 100 in the cafe ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many people were in the main saloon?
Mr. Ray. In the main dining; saloon, sir?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Ray. I heard since that thei?e were 104.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many survived among the em-
ployees in that dining room ?
Mr. Ray. I heard it was just over 40, but I do not know. I can
not speak with any accuracy.
Senator Smith. ^Vhen did you last see Maj. Butt and the other
people on whom you waited at their regular table?
Mr. Ray. I saw Maj. Butt for the last time at luncheon, when he
left, on Sunday. Mr. Moore and ilr. Millet I saw at dinner. Mr.
Moore I saw coming from the smoke room afterwards, with other
people whom I did not notice, just before going to my station. Mr.
Clark I did not see.
Senator Smith. Just before you were going to your station?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is, to your lifeboat?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Ray. Mr. Clark and Mrs. Clark I did not see at all after
luncheon that day.
Senator Smith. Where was your bunk located ?
Mr. Ray. On E deck. No. 3 room.
Senator Smith. Forward or aft or amidships?
Mr. Ray. It was about amidships, on the deck below the saloon.
Senator Smith. Who had the rooms around you at that time?
Mr. Ray. Other stewards were forward and aft.
Senator Smith. Anyone that survived, that you now recall?
JVIr. Ray. Lots of them.
Senator Smith. How were you aroused from your slumber?
Mr. Ray. By the impact.
Senator Smith. What kind of a shock was it, if any?
Mr. Ray. A kind of a movement that went backward and forward.
I thought something had gone wrong in the engine room. I did not
think of any iceberg.
Senator Smith. Did you know Mr. Andrews, of the shipbuilding
firm of Harland & Wolff, who built this vessel ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir. I was at Belfast and waited on him around
there on the OVym/pic and the Titamc,
Senator Smith. Do you know what deck his stateroom was on?
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; I do not know.
Senator Smith. Do you know where he sat generally in the main
saloon?
Mr. Ray. I could not be sure, sir; but I fancy it was on the port
side, aft.
Senator Smith. Is that where Mr. Ismay had his table?
770 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Mr. Ray. No, sir; I do not know where Mr. Ismay sat
Senator Smith. It was not at the captain's table!
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Andrews after the boat struck!
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; I did not.
Senator Smith. You were aroused by this impact?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do?
Mr. Ray. Woke up everybody in the room. I sat up in my bunk
and waited
Senator Smith (interposing). Was this a large room?
Mr. Ray. Twenty-eight slept in the room, sir.
Senator Smith. Stewards?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir; mostly saloon stewards.
Senator Smith. When this impact came, you roused yourself?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And woke up everybody in the room?
Mr. Ray. They were all awakened by the impact.
Senator Smith. All were awakened?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did they all get up?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get up?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you eo back to sleep?
Mr. Ray. I was going off to sleep again when they came in and
told us to get to the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. Who told you that!
Mr. Ray. First the saloon steward and then Mr. Dodd, the second
steward.
Senator Smith. To get to the lifeboats!
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the impact!
Mr. Ray. As near as I could make out, it was about 20 minutes.
It was around about 12 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Did you all get out then?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where did you go?
Mr. Ray. I dressed myself and put on my life belt and went along
the working alleyway to the back stairway, and waited to take my
turn with about 20 others, and we went straight on up to C deck.
I saw the second steward up there and he asked me to get a life belt.
I went through five staterooms and saw nobody there in either of
them. I found a life belt in the fifth stateroom and took it to him,
and proceeded on up to the boat deck, to No. 9 boat, which was my
boat, allotted to me.
Senator Smith. Did you find it there when you got on the boat
deck?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Uncovered?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir; just being swung out.
Senator Smith. Whom did you fina there at the boat?
Mr. Ray. Sailors and about a dozen other men.
Senator Smith. How many sailors?
i( .^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER, 771
Mr. Ray. About two sailors at each one at the winding arrange-
ment to wind the boat up.
Senator Smith. And about a dozen other men?
Mr. Rat. About a dozen other men ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith, Who were those men?
Mr. Rat. The crew in general and one or two passengers.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the passengers that you saw
there?
Mr. Rat. No, sir ; I did not take any notice.
Senator Smith. Did you see any women there?
Mr. Rat. I did not at that time, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not?
Mr. Rat. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What oflicer stood at lifeboat No. 9, if any?
Mr. Rat. There was an officer there, but I do not know what
rank he took. He did not survive, so I do not know him. I did
not know any of them, in fact, only Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. It was not Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Ray. They were new officers to me, and I did not have time to
find out what rank he was.
Senator Smith. But you know it was not Mr. Murdock?
Mr. Ray. I know it was not Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. He was the officer of the watch that night ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir. *
Senator Smith. ^Vhen you got to lifeboat No. 9 and saw those 8
or 10 men standing around it and one or two passengers and no
women, what took place ?
Mr. Ray. I went to the rail and looked over and saw the first boat
leaving the ship on the starboard side. By that time I was feeling
rather cold, so I went down below again, to my bedroom, the same
way that I came up.
Senator Smith. What did you do then?
Mr. Ray. I got my overcoat on. I went along E deck. There was
nobody in No. 3 when I left.
Senator Smith. No. 3 room?
Mr. Ray. No. 3 room, where I slept. I went along E deck and
forward, and the forward part of E deck was under water. I could
just manage to get through the doorway into the main stairway. I
went across to the other side of the ship where the passengers' cabins
were ; saw nobody there. I looked to see where the water was and it
was corresponding on that side of the ship to the port side. I walked
leisurely up to the main stairway, passed two or three people on the
way, saw tne two pursers in the purser's office and the clerks busy at
the safe taking thm^ out and putting them in bags, and just then
Mr. Rqtjischild left his stateroom and I waited for him
Senator Smith. Did you know him ?
Mr. Ray. Yes ; I had waited on him on the Olympic.
Senator Smith. Let us fix the place. You were still on E deck?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And at his stateroom?
Mr. Ray. I did not say that I was in any stateroom then
Senator Smith. I thought you saw Mr. Rothschild?
Mr. Ray. I had come through D deck and then C deck and I saw
Mr. Rothschild.
772 '' TITANIC " DI8ASTEB.
Senator Smith. All right; go ahead.
Mr. Ray. I spoke to him and asked him where his wife was. He
said she had gone off in a boat. I said, •' This seems rather serious.''
He said, "I do not think there is any occasion for it." So we
walked leisurely up the stairs until I got to A deck and went through
the door. I went out there onto the open deck and along to No. 1>
boat. It was just being filled w^ith women and children. I assisted.
I saw that lowered away. Then I went along to No. 11 boat, and
saw that loaded with women and children and then that was lowered
away. Then I went to No. 13 boat. I saw that about half filled with
women and children. They said, "A few of you men get in here."
There were about nine to a dozen men there, passengers and crew.
I saw Mr. Washington Dodge there, asking where his wife and child
were. He said they had gone away in one of the boats. He was
standing well back from the boat, and I said, " You had better get in
here, then." I got behind him and pushed him and I followed.
After I got in tSere was a rather big woman came along, and we
helped her in the boat. She was crying all the time and saying,
"Don't put me in the boat; I don't want to go in the boat; I have
never been in an open boat in my life. Don't let me stay in." I said,
" You have got to go, and you may as well keep quiet."
After that there was a small child rolled in a blanket thrown into
th^ boat to me, and I caught it. The woman that brought it along
got into the boat afterwards. We left about three or four men on
the deck, at the rail, and they went along to No. 15 boat.
The boat was lowered away until we got nearly to the water, when
two or three of us noticed a very large discharge of water coming
from the ship's side, which I thought was the pumps working. The
hole was about 2 feet wide and about a foot deep, a solid mass of
w^ater coming out from the hole. I realized that if the boat was
lowered down straight away the boat would be swamped and we
should all be thrown into the water. We shouted for the boat to
be stopped from being lowered, and they responded promptly and
stopped lowering the boat.
We got oars and pushed it off from the side of the ship. It seemed
impossible to lower the boat without being swamped; we pushed
it out from the side of the ship and the next I knew we were in the
water free from this discharge. I do not think there were any
Failors or quartermasters in the boat, because they apparently did
not know how to get free from the tackle. They called for Icnive*^
to cut the boat loose, and somebody gave them a knife and they cut
the boat loose. In the meantime we were drifting a little aft and
boat No. 15 was being lowered immediately upon us, about 2 feet
over our heads, and we all shouted again, and they again replied
very promptly and stopped lowering boat No. 15.
We pushed out from the side of the ship. Nobody seemed to take
command of the boat, so we elected a fireman to take charge. He
ordered us to put out the oars and pull straight away from the ship.
We pulled all night with short intervals for rest. 1 inquired if the
ladies were all warm, and they said they were quite warm and they
had a blanket to spare. There seemed to be very little excitement
in the boat. They w^ere all quite calm and collected.
Senator Smith. Did you return to the scene of the sinking of the
vessel at all after you left the boat's side ?
t( ».*».^-*«^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 773
Mr. Eat. No. I was not in charge of the boat, I was only pulling
an oar. I objected to pulling away from the ship at all.
Senator Smith. You objected?
Mr. Ray. Yes. I wanted to stand by the ship, but, of course, my
voice was not much against the others. We had six oars in the boat,
and several times I refused to row, but eventually gave in and pulled
with the others.
Senator Smith. How many people were in your boat, No. 13?
Mr. Ray. I did not count them. It was impossible to count them,
either then or in the morning.
Senator Smith. You never did count them ?
Mr. Ray. No; I never did.
Senator Smith. What was the proportion of men to women ?
Mr. Ray. I should imagine there were about two-thirds women
and one- third men.
Senator Smith. Did you know who the men were, or any of them ?
Mr. Ray. I know several of them ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you give their names?
Mr. Ray. I can give the name of one of them, Wright, steward.
Another was Mr. Washington Dodge, first-class passenger.
Senator Smith. Anyone else?
Mr. Ray. I am afraid I do not know anybody else.
Senator Smith. Do you know the names of anv of the women ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; I do not. They were mostly second and third
class women.
Senator Smith. WaitrCvSses or stewardesses?
Mr. Ray. There were no. waitresses or stewardesses on our boat at
all, sir. There were two or three children; one very young baby,
7 months old.
Senator Smith. Did all these people in lifeboat No. 13 reach the
Carvathia alive?
Mr. Ray. Quite safely, sir. It was about the best boat there, I
imagine, from what I heard.
Senator Smith. Was lifeboat No. 13 a full-sized lifeboat ?
Mr. Ray. Full-sized; ves, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have a lamp in it?
Mr. Ray. We did not look for it, sir. Well, we looked for it, but
it may have been in a locker; and owing to the crowded condition
of the boat, we could not make a thorou^ search.
Senator Smith. You did not find any?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You saw No. 9, and, as I understood you. No. 11
and No. 13 boats loaded?
Mr. Ray. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. And assisted in loading them ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. During that time, while you were loading those
boats, did you see any of the people whom you especially waited on
at your table in the dining room?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. At no time ?
Mr. Ray. Not at that time, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see them at all?
774 " TITANIC '' DISA8TEE.
Mr. Ray. I saw Mr. Moore coming from the smoking room, as I
stated. That was the only one.
Senator Smith. But you did not see any of these people you have
named at the lifeboats?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee how far out
from the side of the boat deck these three lifeboats that you heij>ed
to fill hung on the davits.
Mr. Ray. We did not lower them from the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. Where did vou lower them from ?
Mr. Ray. "A" deck.
Senator Smith. They were lowered to the next deck?
Mr. Ray. They were lowered to the next deck down.
Senator Smith. And loaded there?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there people on the upper or boat deck at
that time ?
Mr. Ray. I heard so, afterwards.
Senator Smpth. How many?
Mr. Ray. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You say you went to No. 9, which was your boat i
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it then suspended at the boat deck, or at
A deck?
Mr. Ray. At A deck, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any other lifeboats that were
lowered to A deck and filled from A deck?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir; No. 15^ sir.
Senator Smith. The lowering of these four lifeboats on the star-
board side to A deck suspended them by their gear how far below
the upper deck?
Mr. Ray. Four or five feet, sir — about 5 feet, I imagine — from the
boat deck.
Senator Smith. In that position was it not a little difficult to get
into the lifeboats?
Mr. Ray. That was from the boat deck. They loaded them at A
deck. You could get off A deck straight into the boat, without any
difficulty. I saw no difficulty whatever in loading the passengers
into the boat.
Senator Smith. That is, at A deck the lifeboats were out away
from the deck about 2J or 3 feet?
Mr. Ray. They certainly were not.
Senator Smith. I mean at the boat deck.
Mr. Ray. At the boat deck thev were lower than the boat deck. T
said they were about 4 feet from the boat deck — that is, lower than
the boat deck, not out from the boat deck. They hung straight
down, and they were dropped straight to A deck, and uie pe()j)le
got over the rail and got straight into them without any difficulty
whatever.
Senator Smith. Lamp Trimmer Hemmings says that the boat
he assisted in loading was out about 2^ to 3 feet.
Mr. Ray. I did not experience it, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not experience anything of that kind ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir.
(t ^^^. ^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 775
Senator Smith. The boats, when lowered to A deck, were accessi-
ble without jumping into them?
Mr. Ray. They certainly were, sir.
Senator Smith. Did anyone who attempted to get into them fall?
Mr. Ray. No, sir. We had no accidents whatever. I saw no
accident whatever.
Senator Smith. You spoke of the little baby being thrown to you.
Mr. Ray. It was just thrown about 2 or 3 feet to me, and I cauglit
it, unrolled the blankets, and found that it was a little baby.
Senator Smith. Did the boat hang against the rail at A deck?
Mr. Ray. It was not touching the rail, sir; but it was quite close
enough to get in without any exertion at all,
Senator Smith. That is, within a few inches, or feet ?
Mr. Ray. It may have been that distance [indicating about a foot].
Senator Smith.' A foot ?
Mr. Ray. It may have been a foot. There was not any difficulty
in getting into the boat, anyway.
Senator S^iitii. Did 3'ou see any male passengers, or men of the
crew, ordered out, or thrown cut, of these lifeboats on the starboard
side?
Mr. Ray, None whatever, sir; I seen no occasion for it. Everv-
bodv was very orderly, and there was no occasion to throw anvbodv
about.
Senator Smith. Did vou see Mr. Ismav in either of these boats?
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; I did not.
Senator Smith. How many boats had gone from the starboard side
when vou reached No. 9?
Mr. Ray. I could not swear to that, but I fancied they had all gone
forward. Nos. 15. 11, 9, and 13 were the last four to leave the ship.
They had all left excepting those numbers.
Senator Smith. I do not remember whether I asked you — if not, I
will now — ^how manv of the crew were in vour boat. No. 13 ?
Mr. Ray. As far as I can remember, sir. there were about four or
five firemen, one baker, and three stewards. The remainder were
second and first class passengers and third-class passengers.
Senator Smith. Do you know who they were?
Mr. Ray. I only know Mr. Washington Dodge.
Senator Smith. You do not know who the others were?
Mr. Ray. He was the only passenger that I knew by name.
Senator Smith. There were nine of the crew?
Mr. Ray. About nine, sir.
Senator Smith. And one male passenger. Were there any more
male passengers?
Mr. Ray. Onlv second and third class; no more first-class male
passengers that I saw or first-class female passengers.
Senator Smith. I would like to know how many first-class male
passengers there were.
Mr. Ray. I could not say, sir. There was one Japanese. I remem-
ber a Japanese, very well, being there. I have no idea, because I
could not discriminate second from third class passengers.
Senator Smfth. Was there any crowd on A deck while you were
loading those boats?
Mr. Ray. None whatever, sir. I do not mean to say no crowd.
There were people waiting to get into the boat, and when the boat
776 '^ TITANIC ^' DISASTER.
was filled and ready to be lowered away we left about four men on
the deck, and they went along to No. 15, and got in there quite
easily.
Senator Smith. Was there any rule of your company with which
you were familiar requiring lifeboats to be loaded from the upper or
boat deck?
Mr. Ray. I know of none, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the station list, or boat list, posted on the
upper deck?
Mr. Ray. In the first-class pantry.
Senator Smith. I would like to know, if it is possible for you to
tell me, how many you -had in lifeboat No. 13, altogether?
Mr. Ray. No, sir : I have no idea. There may have been 50, there
may have been 60, or there may have been less.
Senator Smith. It was full?
Mr. Ray. It was full. There was not room to pull the oars. We
could not work the boat with any sense of satisfaction.
Senator Smith. Who attended the tiller on lifeboat No. 13?
Mr. Ray. A fireman, I understood.
Senator Smith. You are sure one woman did not attend the tiller?
Mr. Ray. Quite sure, sir : positive. No woman touched the tiller,
sir, through the night, and no woman touched an oar through the
night. A woman offered to take my oar, but I said I was good for
another few hours.
Senator Smith. Have you any idea, yourself, and can you give any
explanation, as to how those fcoats on the starboard side — ^Nos. 9,
11, 13, and 15 — happened to be loaded at A deck?
Mr. Ray. Only from what I heard afterwards.
Senator Smith. I do not ask for any gossip about it, and I do not
want to press you on the matter ; but it you do know I would like
to know.
Mr. Ray. I do not know. Had I not gone down below — ^had I
remained on the boat deck I should not have been on A deck; but
when I came out of the door and saw they were loading boats on A
deck I remained on A deck and helped to load them with passengers.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the passengers or crew other
than those vou have mentioned in these four lifeboats, Nos. 9, 11, 13,
and 15?
Mr. Ray. No, sir. I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Do you know who had charge of these boats after
they were lowered?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. You never saw any of the persons who sat at your
table after the accident occurred except Mr. Moore?
Mr. Ray. Quite correct, sir.
Senator Smith. To whom you have already referred?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
Senator Fletcher. Was No. 15 lowered immediately after No. 13?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir ; lowered nearly on top of us.
Senator Fletcher. How many persons did No. 15 contain?
Mr. Ray. So far as I could see in the dark, it was full.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell what proportion of them were
male and what proportion female?
<< ^— . . ^* f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 777
Mr. Ray. I could not discriminate male from female, sir. When
our boat was lowered away they shouted out. " Is there any women
or children to go?" and somebody said, " No.''
Senator Smith. Did you see any passengers or hear any passen-
gers on the boat deck at that time?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; we did not hear any thing up there.
Senator Fuetchrr. Do you know whether these lifeboats swung
awav from the rail on the boat deck?
Mr. Ray. They sw^ung straight down.
Senator Flktcher. I understand; but when they were suspended
at the boat deck, what was the distance out from the rail?
Mr. Ray. It would be so they could walk straight into them.
Senator Fletcher. From the boat deck?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. The same as below?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long was it after No. 15 reached the
water before the Titanic went down?
Mr. Ray. I could not say. We had pulled away from the ship.
The man at the tiller kept on urging us to pull and get out of the
suction of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. How far away had you gotten ?
Mr. Ray. We had got about three-quarters of a mile, I suppose, to
a mile, so far as I could judge.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the lights of the Titanic?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Had you gotten as far as three-quarters of a
mile before the lights went out on the Titard^f
Mr. Rat. Yes, sir; we were about a mile off when the lights
went out.
Senator Fletcher. Those were the last boats lowered on the star-
board side, were thev ?
Mr. Ray. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know anything about any being low-
ered on the port side ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. You do not know whether the boats had been
lowered on the port side when No. 15 was lowered on the starboard
side ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; I do not.
Senator Fletcher. Who was directing the loading of the l>oats
on the starboard side?
Mr. Ray. I could not see in the dark. I do not know who was
acting in directing the loading of them. I believe there was an
officer there, but I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. Was there any one officer who seemed to have
charge of it?
Mr. Ray. If he had charge of it — if he had charge when No. 13
was lowered — he must have been on the boat deck. I did not see
anv officer on the A deck when it was lowered. There were women
and children came up and simply were put in the boat, afrd men
got in afterwards, and she was lowered away.
Senator Fletcher. Who superintended the work of loading the
boats — your boat for instance ?
778 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Ray. Nobody superintended the lowering of our boat, sir:
that I know of.
Senator Fletcher. Was there not any officer superior to you in
charge of that boat?
Mr. Ray. No, sir ; not that I know of.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the collapsible boats?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; not that I know of; I did not see any collapsible
boats.
Senator Fletcher. In the morning?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; only one that was turned upside down in the
morning.
Senator Fletcher. Where was that; how far away from the
wreck?
Mr. Ray. They were floating away. I saw that later on in the
morning after I got on the CarpatMcu
Senator Fletcher. There was nobody in that boat then ?
Mr. Ray. No, sir; they had been taken off.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Smith. You may be excused.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONY OF HENRY SAMTTEL ETCHES.
The witness was duly sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Give your full name.
Mr. Etches. Henry Samuel Etches.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Etches. No. 23-A, Gordon Avenue^ Southampton.
Senator Smith. Are you a married or single man?
Mr. Etches. Married..
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Etches. Forty, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your business?
Mr. Etches. Bedroom steward, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you bedroom jsteward on the Titanic on
the voyage from Southampton up to the time of the accident?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What deck were you on?
Mr. Etches. B deck, after end, port side.
Senator Smith. How many rooms did you have charge of?
Mr. ErciiES. Eight on B deck and one on A deck.
Senator Smith. Do you know who the passengers were on A
deck?
Mr. Etches. Mr. Andrews, sir.
Senator Smith. The builder of this ship?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What apartment did he have?
Mr. Etches. He had a separate cabin, with bathroom attached —
the only cabin. There was only one on each part of the after end
of A deck.
Senator Smith. What was the number?
Mr. Etches. Thirty-six, sir.
it »«.« . ^ ^ f9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 779
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Andrews frequently during the
voyage ?
Mr. Etches. Every morning at 7 o'clock I went to his cabin, sir.
Senator Smith. For what purpose?
Mr. Etches. I used to take him some fruit and tea.
Senator Smith. When would you next see him ?
Mr. Etches. I used to see him again when he dressed at night.
That would be about a quarter or 20 minutes to 7, as a rule. He
was rather late in dressing.
Senator Smith. Had you ever known him before this voyage?
Mr. Etches. I had met him several times at Belfast, because I
had been on the Olympic.
Senator Smith. Did he build the Olympic f
Mr. Etches. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How old a man was Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Etches. He signed himself as 38 on a paper that I gave him.
Senator Smith. Did he seem to be in good. health on the voyage?
Mr. Etches. In perfect health.
Senator Smith. Did he seem to be busy ?
Mr. Etches. He was busy the whole time.
Senator Smith. Did he have maps and drawings in his apart-
ment ?
Mr. Etches. He had charts rolled up by the side of his Iwd, and
he had papers of all descriptions on his table during the day.
Senator Smith. He was apparently working?
Mr. Etches. He was working all the time, sir. He was making
notes of improvements; any improvements that could be made.
Senator Smith. On the ship f
Mr. Etches. In any of the cabins. Anything that was pointed out
to him, he was making notes of it.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of him, you gathered that he
was giving his undivided attention to this ship on its trial trip?
Mr. Etches. I never saw him anywhere else, but during the day
I met him in all parts, with workmen, going about. I mentioned
si^veral things to him, and he was with workmen having them at-
tended to. The whole of the day he was working from one part of
t he ship to the other.
Senator Smith. Did you see him working nights?
Mr. Etches. He was very late in going to bed, sir. I never saw
him in the smoke room or in any other of these rooms. I happened
lo meet him at different parts of deck E more often than anywhere
else.
Senator Smith. Did you see him in the boiler room ?
Mr. Etches. He had a suit, and I have seen that suit thrown on
the bed when he had taken it off. I have seen him in the chief
engineer's room.
Senator Smith. You mean by that that he had a special suit which
he wore when he went into the boiler room ?
Mr. Etches. It was there for the purpose. I knew exactly what
it was. It was a suit the surveyors put on.
Senator Smith. What did you say about a suit that he wore when
he went into the engineering department ?
780 ' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Mr. Etches. He had an engineeriBg suit on then — an ordinar}
bhie suit, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you last see Mr. Andrews !
Mr. Etches. It would be about 20 minutes past 12. He stopped
me. I was going along B deck, and he asked had I waked all my
passengers. Mr. Harrison came up then, and I said: "No; I am go-
ing to see if the Carter family are up." I went to open the door.
Mr. Harrison said : " I can tell you they are up. I have just come
out of my cabin." His cabin adjoined. Mr. Andrews then told me
to come down on C deck with him, and we went down the pantry
staircase together. Going down he told me to be sure and make the
passengers open their doors, and to tell them the Ufebelts were on
top of the wardrobes and on top of the racks, and to assist them in
every way I could to get them on, which I endeavored to do.
Senator Smith. Is that the last time you ever saw him ?
Mr. Etches. No, sir. We walked along C deck together. The
purser was standing outside of his office, in a large group of ladies.
The purser was asking' them to do as he asked them, and to go back
in their rooms and not to frighten themselves, but, as a preliminary
caution, to put the life belts on, and the stewards would give them every
attention. Mr. Andrews said : " That is exactly what I have been try-
ing to get them to do," and, with that, he walked down the stairca.se
to go on lower D deck. That is the last I saw of Mr. Andrews.
Senator Smith. He never asked you to put a life belt on him,
did he?
Mr. Etches. No, sir; and I never saw him with one in his own
hand.
Senator Smith. Was he the only passenger or the only cabin pas-
senger in an apartment on A deck!
Mr. Etches. No, sir; Mr. and Mrs. Carter and the two children
were occupying 98 and 96. Mr. Harrison was next door, occupying
94. Mr. Guggenheim was occupying 84, with his secretary.
Senator Smpth. All on A deck?
Mr. Etches. Not on A deck. There were only two cabins on the
after end of A deck. One was vacant and the other was occupied.
Senator Smith. On the deck below, under your charge, what
rooms did you have?
Mr. Etches. 98, 96, 94; and then came the door. The other
rooms were empty until I came to 84, occupied by Mr. Guggenheim
and his secretary. Mr. Carter's valet was in 96, the inside cabin.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the collision came?
Mr. Etches. Asleep, sir.
Senator SMrrn. In what part of the ship ?
Mr. Etches. In our apartments, which were about the middle of
the E deck, in what we call the working alleyway.
Senator Smith. How many people slept in the same room with
you ?
Mr. Etches. Nineteen of us, sir.
Senator Smith. What time did you retire that night ?
Mr. Etches. At half past 9, sir. I was due again at 12 o'clock.
Senator Smith. Due on watch or on duty at 12 o'clock midnight ?
Jlr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How were you awakened?
t ( ,^^ . ^^^« y y
TITANIC DISASTER. 781
Mr. Etches. I was awakened by something, but I did not know
what it was, and I called to my mate and I said " What time is it
that they are going to call us next ? " It was then between 25
minutes and 20 minutes to 12. He said, " I don't know.'' I turned
over to go to sleep again. At that minute I heard a loud shout,
" Close water-tight bulkheads." I recognized it as our boatswain's
voice; it was extra loud. I looked out and he was running from
fore to aft.
Senator Smith. What was he saying?
Mr. Etches. The one shout, " Close water-tight bulkhead doors."
Senator Smith. How long was that after the impact ?
Mr. Etches. That would be under 10 minutes, sir. Seven minutes,
I would say, as near as possible.
Senator Smith. Was there any other signal that you know for
that action except the word of mouth?
Mr. Etches. That is the only word, sir. My bed was next to the
door.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether that was done or not ?
Mr. Etches. Well, a seaman was running with him from forward
to aft, and so I took it they were going along to close those doors,
but my business did not take me so far as that door.
Senator Smith. What did you do then?
Mr. Etches. I partly dressed and looked out of the door, and I
saw the third-class passengers coming along from forward with their
portmanteaus. I had gotten about 30 yards, probably, when I met
a passenger with a piece of ice that size [indicating], and he said,
" Will you believe it now"? And threw it down on the deck. With
that I went back and finished, dressing, and then went up on deck.
Senator Smith, What did you do then ?
Mr. Etches. As I was going through the door I met a bedroom
steward named Stone. I^ was the man my mate was supposed to
relieve. He was bedroom steward on E deck. I said, " Wnat is the
time " ? He said, " Never mind about that ; there is something else
for you to do. I saw them pull up bags of mail, and the water was
running out of the bottom of them." My mate called down to E
deck and I went to the other ladder to A deck, where I was to relieve
the man. When I got on A deck the bedroom steward was assisting
pa&sengers then, and most of the doors were open. That was the
forward end of A deck. I said, "Have you called all of your
people " ? He said, " Yes, but 1 can't get them to dress." They were
standing in the corridors partly dressed. I said, " I will go down on
my deck"; and with that I went down to B deck, arousing my pas-
sengers. That is when I met Mr. Harrison, and Mr. Andrews the
builder.
Senator Smith. Did you arouse your passengers in their state-
rooms?
Mr. Etches. I aroused the passengers in my stateroom; yes. I
saw them all out, except Mr. Carter's family, and Mr. Harrison told
me they were already up.
Senator Smith. Did you assist in putting life belts on them?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir: but more on C deck. I threw the life belts
down, and then threw some of them into the corridor. Mr. Andrews
said to be sure there were no life belts left. The first cabin I went to
782 TITANIC DISASTER.
was at the foot of the pantry stairs. I pulled the bottom drawer out
there and stood on it, and got out life belts, and as a gentleman was
passing there, I gave him one of those.
Senator Smith. Do vou know who he was ?
Mr. Etches. Xo: I gave him one. He was a stout gentleman;
appeared to be an Englishman. He said, "' Show me how to put this
on," and I showed him how ; and then he said, *' Tie it for me.'^ I
said, " Pull the strings around to the front and tie it," and as he was
doing it I ran outside and opened other doors, and then most of the
doors were opened along C deck.
Senator Smith. "When you got to your deck — ^to these staterooms
you have enumerated — did you find your passengers there or had
they gotten out? You have spoken of Mr. and Mrs Carter having
gone.
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What about Mr. Guggenheim and his secretary,
and others?
Mr. Etches. They were in their room. I took the life belts out.
The life belts in this cabin were in the wardrobe, in a small rack,
and the cabin was only occupied by two. There were three life belts
there, and I took the three out and put one on Mr. Guggenheim. He
apparentlv had only gone to his room, for he answered the first
laiock. lie said: "'This will hurt." I said, "You have plenty of
time, put on some clothes and I will be back in a few minutes."
Senator Smith. Did you get back there ?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he there?
Mr. Etches. Yes; he followed me -along. I then found No. 78
cabin door shut, and I banged with both hands on the door loudly,
and a voice answered, "What is it"? Then a lady's voice said,
"Tell me what the trouble is." I said, "It is necessary that you
should open the door^ and I will explain everything, but please put
the life belts on or bring them in the corridor." They said, " I want
to know what is the mattei\" I said, " Kindly open tiie door," and I
still kept banging. I passed along, and I found one cabin was empty,
and then I came to another cabin and a lady and a gentleman stood
at the door. They were swinging a life belt in their hands.
Senator Smith. When vou taiow who they were please name them.
Mr. Etches. I do not Imow anyone outside of the people in my
section.
Senator Smith. Did this women open the door when you pounded
so hard?
Mr. Etches. I did not see the door opened.
Senator Smith. Do you know who was in that room ?
Mr. Etches. Well, I don't know the name. It was a shortish
name, and I fancy it began with S. They were a stiff-built gentle-
man and a rather" short, thin lady. They were undoubtedly Ameri-
cans.
Senator Smith. Have you learned who they were?
Mr. Etches. I have made no inquiry since then.
Senator S^iith. Have you ever seen them since?
Mr. Etches. Xo, sir; but I think I should recognize them if I
saw them.
Senator Smith. You did not see them aboard the Carpathia?
(t «^«,. ^^^^ f>
TITANIC DISASTER. 783
Mr. Etches. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you do after that?
Mr. Etches. I went along to the purser's place. He said, '^ It is
necessary to go up on the boat deck," and he said, '' Tell all the other
bedroom stewards to assemble their passengers on the boat deck and
stand by." I went on the boat deck, and they were just loading boat
No. ?.• I said to the quartermaster, " Is this boat No. 5 "? He said^
" No ; it is the next boat."
Senator Smith. You were on the starboard side ?
Mr. Etches. On the starboard side; yes.
Senator Smith. You went then to No. 9 lifeboat?
Mr. Etches. No. 7, I went to, and asked him, ''Is this No. 5"{
He said, '' No; it is the next boat." I looked at No. 5^ and they were
taking the covers off and preparing her, and I assisted to launch
No. 7 boat. There was Mr. Murdock, Mr. Ismay, Mr. Pitman, and
a Quartermaster (Oliver), two stewards, and myself there.
Senator Smith. Were you all working?
Mr. Etches. My part was that I was clearing the falls. They
were catching in tne falls, or at least the falls were catching in peo-
ple's feet, as they were jumping around, and I cleared the falls as
they were lowering them away. I went down to do it
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Murdock assist in loading that boat or
lowering it?
Mr. Etches.. Mr. Murdock stood there the whole time, giving
orders.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Pitman assist?
Mr. Etches. Mr. Pitman assisted, yes; and Mr. Ismay was assist-
ing with the falls.
Senator Ismay. What did Mr. Ismay do? ^
Mr. Etches. Mr. Ismay, in the first place, was asking the gentle-
men to kindly keep back, as it was ladies first in this boat; and they
wanted to get the boat clear first.
Senator ^mith. Go ahead.
Mr. Etches. After we lowered the boat
Senator Smith. Just a moment. That boat was filled from the
boat deck?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it difficult to get into it from the deck?
Mr. Etches. There was not the slightest difficulty, sir. A child
could have stepped over.
Senator Smith. Was it a full-sized lifeboat?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And were the women put into it first?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir. The gentlemen were lined up, those that
were trying to assist, and Mr. Ismay said, " Kindly make a line here
and allow the ladies to pass througn " ; and I think it was Mr. Mur-
dock's voice that was calling out. "Ladies, this way; is there anv
more ladies before this boat goes? " The boat was three parts fuU
of ladies, to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Were there any more to get in? Did any more
get in?
Mr. Etches. There were, because No. 6 boat, which I went to
next, took over 36 ladies.
40476— PT fr— 12 6
^84 '* TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. That was the next boat?
Mr. Etches. That was the next boat, sir.
Senator Smith. And you went to No. 5 boat, then, from No. 7?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
' Senator Smith. You did not get into No. 7?
Mr. Etches. No; I did not attempt to get into No. 7. My boat
was No. 5, sir.
Senator Smith. Your boat was No. 5 : that was your station ?
Mr. Etches. That was my station, sir.
Senator Smith. What men got into No. 7, if you know?
Mr. Etches. I did not see the men that got in there, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Did Mr. Pitman get in there?
Mr. Etches. No, sir.
' Senator Smith. No officer got in?
' Mr. Etches. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. How many men were in No. 7?
Mr. Etches. I could not say, sir, because the position of the ladies
•sitting there was such that there may have been men back in the
Stern of the boat, and I was not able to see them.
Senator Smith. About how many men ?
Mr. Etches. I could only say for certain that there were three
men there, the men forward, but who they were I could not say.
Senator Smith. And those men manned the boat?
Mr. Etches. They were the men to attend the forward fall, I take
it, sir.
Senator Smith. And no other men got in?
Mr. Etches. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it lowered in safety?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir. It was lowered perfectly, and it seemed to
me that the boat went down extra level and very clear in the blocks.
Senator Smith. That was the first boat that you assisted in fill-
ing?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were there any children in that boat?
Mr. Etches. In No. 7 boat I saw one child, sir, a baby boy, with
a small woolen cap over his head. I remember it well.
Senator Smith. Then you proceeded to boat No. 5 ?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir. The next boat on the same side.
Senator Smith. What did you do there?
Mr. Etches. I assisted as r had assisted at No. 7. I stood by the
forward fall with the quartermaster and three more stewards.
Senator Smith. Who was the quartermaster?
Mr. Etches. Mr. Olliver, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he survive ?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And two others?
Mr. Etches. Two other stewards. I have not seen then since, sir.
Senator Smith. Was the same course taken .with that boat?
Mr. Etches. That was the same, sir. After getting all the women
that were there they called out three times — Mr. Ismay called out
twice, I know, in a loud voice — ^"Are there any more women before
this boat goes," and there was no answer. Mr. Murdock called out;
and at that moment a female came up whom I did not recognize.
Mr. Ismay said: "Come along: jump m." She said: "I am only a
ti J»^J... _L.__ ff
TTTANIO DISASTER. 785
stewardess." He said: "Never mind, you are a woman, take your
place." That was the last woman I saw get into No. 5 boat, sir.
Senator Smith. What men got into it?
Mr. Etches. There were two firemen in the bow of the boat, Mr.
Pitman was standing in the center on the deck waiting, and one
steward was standing with myself at the forward fall. Olliver, the
sailor, the quartermaster who had been assisting, stepped back with
myself into the crowd of gentlemen. Mr. Murdock said to me : "Are
20U the steward appointed to this boat? " I said: " Yes, sir; No. 5
oat is mine." He said : " Then jump in and assist those men with
the forward fall." I took my place. At the same moment Mr.
Pitman called out : " Is there a sailor in the boat? " I looked around
and I said : " No, sir." He said to this man Olliver, who was stand-
ing on the deck : "Are you a sailor ? " He said : " Yes, sir." He
said: "Take your place in this boat;" and he jumped in. Mr. Mur-
dock then stepped up and said: "Are you the officer going in this
boat ? " He said : " Yes, sir." Then he said : " Take your place,"
held out his hand and shook hands and said: "Good-by and good
luck ; " and he took his place and the order was given to lower the
boat?
Senator Smith. Who was that officer to whom Murdock spoke?
Mr. Etches. Mr. Pitman.
Senator SMrrn. The third officer?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What other men got into that boat?
Mr. Etches. There was a stout gentleman, sir, stepped forward
then. He had assisted to put his wife in the boat. He leaned for-
ward and she stood up in the boat, put her arms around his neck
and kissed him, and I heard her say, " I can't leave you," and with
that I turned my head. The next moment I saw him sitting beside
her in the bottom of the boat, and some voice said, " Throw that man
out of the boat." But at that moment they started lowering her
away, and the man remained.
Senator Smith. Who was he?
Mr. ETCHtes. I do not know his name, sir ; but he was a very stout
gentleman, an American.
Senator Smith. Was the boat lowered in safety?
Mr. Etches. Perfect, sir.
Senator Smith. What was done after you reached the water ?
Mr. Etches. Just as we got about 20 feet down a voice called out^
" Be sure and see the plug is in that boat," and I passed the word
around. I said, " See tne plug is in that boat." Olliver crawled into
the bottom of the boat, and I suppose he put the plug in, for when
we touched water I crawled about in the bottom oi the boat and
found no water. So I took it the plug had been put in in safety.
Senator Smith. Did the boat go away from the side of the Ti-
tanicf
Mr. Etches. He cut the trigger that released the falls, and the
order was given to pull off, to lay off from the shin. We laid off
about 100 yards and waited, and the ship started going down;
seemed to tie going down at the head, and Mr. Pitman gave us the
order to head away from the ship, and we pulled off then, I should
say, about a quarter of a mile, and laid on our oars.
Senator Smith. How long?
786 ^' TITANIO '' DISASTER.
Mr. Etches. We remained until the Titanic sank.
Senator Smith. Did you see it go down?
Mr. Etches. I saw it go down, sir.
Senator Smith. You could not see who was on the decks from
your distance?
Mr. Etches. I saw, when the ship rose — her stern rose — a thick
mass of people on the after end. I could not discern the faces, of
course.
Senator Smith. Did the boat go down by the head ?
Mr, Etches. She seemed to raise once as though she was going to
take a violent dive, but sort of checked, as though she had scooped
the water up and had leveled herself. She then seemed to settle
very, very quiet, until the last, when she rose up, and she seemed to
stand 20 seconds, stern in that position [indicating], and then she
went down with an awful grating, like a small boat running off a
shingley beach.
Senator Smith. How long were you lying off, so to speak?
Mr. Etches. Before the Titanic sank, sir?
Senator Smith. No; after.
Mr. Etches. We waited a few minutes after she had gone down.
There was no inrush of water, or anything. Mr. Pitman then said
to pull back to the scene of the wreck. The ladies started calling
out. Two ladies sitting in front where I was pulling, said, "Appeiu
to the officer not to go back. Why should we lose all of our lives m a
useless attempt to save those from the ship ?'^ I said I had no power ;
an officer was in charge of the boat, and he must use his discretion.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, you did not go back?
Mr. Etches. We did not go back.
Senator Smith. How many people were in lifeboat No. 5? Did
you count them?
Mr. Etches. We left the ship, sir. When we had gone away from
the ship we had 42, including the child.
Senator Smith. Did all survive?
Mr. Etches. All survived.
Senator Smith. How many of the crew were in your boat, Mr.
Etches?
Mr. Etches. Six, sir, including the officer.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Etches. There was a steward and myself.
Senator Smith. Give the names, if you can.
Mr. Etches. I could not do that, sir.
Senator Smith. All right ; give them if you can.
Mr. Etches. There were men there that I met that I did know
were on board the Titanic; that I had no idea were aboard the
Titanic^ although in my own department.
Senator Smith. Were there any male passengers besides the six
members of the crew ?
Mr. Etches. There were four gentlemen, to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Etches. I do not know any of their names, sir. Two we trans-
ferred, with a lady and her child, into boat No. 7, 1 believe, sir.
Senator Smith. But you do not know any of their names ?
Mr. Etches. No, sir.
(t «..«^,^ f>
TITANIC DISASTER. 787
Senator Smith. Six members of the crew and four passengers?
Mr. Etches. Gentlemen; yes, sir. I did not know the other two
genti^men were there until we were transferring them.
Senator Smith. Into No. 7?
Mr. Etches. No; I did not know they were there. They were in
the after end of the boat somewhere.
Senator Smith. You do not know any of the other men, except the
one you have mentioned, the oflScer Pitman?
Mr. Etches. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the women who were in that
boat?
Mr. Etches. I know the stewardess, but I do not know her name,
although she has a relative here at the present time. He could give
you her name and address.
Senator Smith. You mean a witness ?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Ssiith. What is his name?
Mr. Etches. Crawford, sir.
Senator Smith. Of your own knowledge, do you know whether any
general call was made for passengers to arouse themselves from their
berths; and when it was, or whether there was any other signal
given?
Mr. Etches. The second steward, sir, was calling all around the
ship. He was directing some men to the storerooms for provisions
for the boats and others he was telling to arouse all the passengers
and to tell them to be sure to take their life belts with them.
Senator SMrrn. Was there any lamp in lifeboat No. 6 ?
Mr. Etches. I saw none.
Senator Fletcher. Were there lights about the deck where the
boats were being loaded ?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir. The cabin doors and all were open, giving
a good light there.
Senator Fietcher. You had no difficulty in seeing the passengers
or the people or the means of operating?
Mr. Etches. I never saw a hitch in the lowering or the loading of
the boats. In fact, I have seen more commotion at ordinary boat
drill than there was on that occasion.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any other boat loaded and
lowered ?
Mr. Etches. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see lights while you were lying by, after
or before the Titanic sank, from any other ship ?
Mr. Etches. After the Titanic had sunk we pulled a good dis-
tance out farther from her, after the cries were all over. We pulled
away, and a light we thought was a mast headlight of a ship was
across where the port bow of the Titanic would have been at the time.
During the time the Titanic was there I saw no light. I was look-
ing at the Titanic the whole of the time.
Senator Smith. Could you see the bridge when the ship went
down ?
Mr. Etches. You could see it quite plain, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see anybody on the bridge ?
Mr. Etches. Not a soul, sir.
788 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. You probably could not distinguish objects?
Mr. Etches. They may have been there; they may have been
near the wheel house, but not on the corner of the bridge. I did not
discern anyone there, sir.
Senator Smith. After you started out to sea, away from this
wreck, did you see any lignts of other vessels?
Mr. £tch£6. Yes ^ir ; we saw a light that there was quite an argu-
ment over. Some said it was a star ; others said it was a ship. But we
{uUed toward it, and we did not seem to approach it an mch nearer,
t had every appearance of a masthead light of a ship, but rather
a faint light.
Senator Smith. Did you see any icebergs that morning?
liL*. Etches. Oh, yes, sir ; we saw a very large floe of flat ice, and
three or four bergs between, in different places; and on the other
bow were two large bergs, in the distance.
Senator Smith. How far away was this field ice t
Mr. Etches. The field ice would be from us three-quarters of a
mile at the least.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Etches. Between 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning.
Senator FiiETCHEB. In what direction?
Mr. Etches. I should say it would have been well over on the
port side of the Titanic^ in the position she was goin^. I should
say, by the way we pulled, the direct way we pulled, it must have
been on the port side of the Titanic.
• Senator Fletchek. Did you see No. 7 after leaving the Titanicf
Mr. Etches. We saw No. 7 when we got alongside of the Car-
pathia^ and they handed back the child, and I passed it aboard the
Carpathia.
Senator Fletcher. How far were you from where the Titanic
went down, as near as you can judge, when you saw this field ice ?
Mr. Etches. I should say we should be about a mile and a half
to 2 miles.
Senator Fletcher. How far was the Titanic^ when she went
down, from that field ice you mentioned ?
Mr. Etches. I could not say exactly if the ice was traveling, at
all, but it could not have been a great distance on the other side
pf the Titanic^ not from the position.
Senator Fletcher. On the port side?
Mr. Etches. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any bergs there, about that field
of ice?
Mr. Etches. There was no berg. Well, there were three at dif-
ferent points, but the field extended such a long distance, and they
were in the field, apparently. But the separate bergs that we saw
. were a long way from the field of ice, the floating ones. They were
separated from the field of ice.
Senator Fletcher. In what direction from the field of ice?
Mr. Etches. When the Caryathia picked us up the Carpathia
would be here [indicating], the field of ice here [indicating], and
the bergs across the opposite side from her.
Senator Fletcher. The bergs would have been on the starboard
side of the Titanicf
a .».».^**^ y}
TITAKIC ^ DI6ASTEB. 78^
Mr. Etches. Exactly, sir.
Senator PYetcher. That is all.
Senator Smith. That is all, Mr. Etches. You may be excused.
Witness excused.
TESimONT OF WmiAM BUBXE.
r
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. What is your full name?
Mr. Burke. William Burne.
Senator Smith. \Miat is your place of residence?
Mr. Burke. Fifty-seven Bridge Street, Southampton.
Senator Smith. What is your age?
Mr. Burke. Thirty.
Senator Smith. And your occupation?
Mr. Burke. Dining room steward. '
Senator Smith. Were you dining room steward on the Titanic?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In what dining room?
Mr. Burke. First-cla'fes dining room.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty in the first-class dining room^
on Sunday, the day of the accident \
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. r
Senator Smith. During what hours were you on duty?
Mr. Burke. During all meal hours, and aoout an hour before the
meal hours and an hour after ; breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Senator Smith. A\Tiat table did you have?
Mr. Burke. You mean the passengers?
Senator Smith. I mean which side of the boat?
Mr. Burke. I was on the starboard side forward.
Senator Smith. What passengers were you specially assigned tof
Mr. Burke. Mr. and Mrs. Straus.
Senator Smith. Mr. and Mrs. Straus alone ? ^
Mr. Burke. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. What time did they dine on Sunday night?
Mr. Burke. It would be about a quarter past 7 when they came
into the dining room.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see them again after that?
Mr. Burke. Xo ; not after they left the dining room ; I didn't seq-
them. '
Senator Smith. Did they dine alone?
Mr. Burke. Yes. sir; they had a table to themselves.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain dine that night?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see him dine that night?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the impact came?
Mr. Burke. I was in mv bunk — in bed.
Senator Smith. Were you asleep ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
V90 " TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. How many people were in your room?
Mr. Burke. I believe there were 28.
Senator Smith. All table stewards?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir ; all table stewards with the exception of one*
One was on deck, assistant deck steward.
Senator Smith. Mr. Burke, I wish you would tell in your own
way just what you did from the time that impact occurred until you
went aboard the Caryathiaf
Mr. Burke. When 1 first felt the impact I did not know exactly what
to make of it. I thought probably she had dropped her propeller, or
something. I did not get up right away. I waited for probably a
quarter of an hour. About a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes later
tne order came for life belts. The order came to get our life belts
and get up on deck and take our overcoats. Mention was made of
the fact that it was very cold. I immediately got up with everybody
else. Everybody was taking a life belt. I did not at that time bother
about a life belt. I put on my coat and dressed in the ordinary way.
As we were going out one of the last men said, " There is a life belt
near my bunk, if you want one." I went back and got this life belt
and carried it out and took it up on deck. J went to the boat deck
on the starboard side?
Senator Smith. To your station ?
Mr. Burke. I went to my station from there and found my boat
had gone.
Senator Smith. What was the number?
Mr. Burke. No. 1. I thought the next best thing to do was to
assist with some other boat. I turned around, and I assisted in two
boats on that side of the deck, and the captain gave the order to the
sailors that were working with me to go aft and assist about the last
boat which I thought was going to be launched on that side. The
sailors ran down there to assist at this boat, and I did not go. I
went to the port side from there. I assisted with No. 8 boat. I saw
her lowered down, full of women, and I immediately passed down to
the next boat, which was No. 10. As I got to No. 10 boat, the chief
oi&cer was there. I just heard him say, " How many seamen are in
that boat? " The answer came back, "Two, sir." He turned to some
man standing there and said, " Is there any man here can pull an
oar?" Nobody answered, but a man who seemed to me like a
foreigner got close to him, and I didn't hear what he said, but he
simply pushed him aside, and he said, " You are of no use to me."
I went to him and told him I could pull an oar, but was not anxious
to go unless he wanted me to go. He said, " Get right in there," and
he pushed me toward the boat, and I simply stepped in the boat and
got in.
After I arrived in the boat the chief officer seemed to be joined by
another officer, and they were shouting for women on the decks, and
as they came along, they made room, cleared the men away, and
passed the women along. Each one, as they were passed along, was
put in the boat. I remained where I landed in the boat and helped
to pass them in. There were also about three children passed in at
the same time.
When there were no more women to be had around the deck the
chief officer gave the order for the boat to be lowered. I might say
that about the last woman that was about to be passed in slippea,
€i ..*».^**^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTBB. 791
and was about to fall between the ship and the boat, when I caught
her. I just saved her from falling. Her head passed toward the next
deck below. A passenger caught her by the shoulders and forced me
to leave go. It was my intention to pull her back in the boat. He
would not let go of the woman, but pulled her right on the ship.
Senator Smith. Do you know who the woman was ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir; I did not know her.
The boat was lowered then into the water. One of the sailors
took an oar, and I took an oar, and the only other member of the
crew, a fireman, got an oar. The sailor steered the boat, and we
rowed away from the ship. We got probably about a quarter of a
mile away, and remained there. We saw pretty well the last of the
shi^— the Titanic.
We remained drifting about practically all night. At one time we
were tied up with three boats together, until I gave the order myself
in that boat to cut us adrift, that we might go to a collapsible boat
that was in distress. When they cut our boat adrift I found an officer
in another boat had come to tne aid of this collapsible boat, so we
remained there for some hours, drifting about. At daybreak, we
made fast to another officer's boat, and we arrived alongside of the
Carpathia with these two boats tied together.
Senator Smith. Who was the officer in charge of boat No. 10?
Mr. Burke. There was no officer in that boat, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was in charge of boat No. 10?
Mr. Burke. When the boat was first launched there *were two sea-
men.
Senator Smith. What other man ?
Mr. Burke. The only other man I recognized at that time was the
fireman, a member of tL crew named Ricl
Senator S^iith. Were there any other men on her?
Mr. Burke. Yes ; but I did not recognize those people.
After the two seamen left that boat some of the women in the for-
ward end said to me : " There are two men down here in the bottom
of the boat."
I said, "Are there so? " I made down in the bottom of the boat
and got hold of those two men and pulled one out. I found he was,
apparently, a Japanese and could not speak any English. I ex-
plained to him and put him on an oar. The other man appeared to me
to be an Italian, about 18 stone. I tried to speak to him in Italian
and he said, "Armenian." That was all he could say. I also put him
on an oar.
We done what we could with the boat in the meantime and made
fast to an officer's boat later on.
Senator Smith. What officer's boat ?
Mr. Burke. I could not say what officer's boat. I think it was Mr.
Liowe's.
Senator Smith. Lowe?
Mr. Burke. No; it would be the second officer; I think Mr.
Lightoller. I think it was his boat.
Senator Smith. How many people were in lifeboat No. 10, all
ioffether?
Mr. Burke. I did not count the people, sir, but the boat was
packed to the utmost capacity. I should say there would be close
to 60 people and about four children.
792 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Four children ?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir ; if I were to guess the number at all.
Senator Smith. Did you know any of the women that were in that
boat by name ?
Mr. Burke. I did not know them by name. I knew their faces,
and afterwards had their names and addresses on board the Car-
pcsthid.
Senator Smith. Can you give us the names and addresses of the
women on that boat?
Mr. Burke. Miss Andrews and 6. Longley.
Senator Smith. Give the address.
Mr. Burke. Both the same address 751 First Street, Hudson,
N. Y.
Senator Smith. Is that allyou can give ?
Mr. Burke. That is all. We irot aboard the Carpathia and every«
thing was in perfect order.
Senator Smith. That is the only name that you could get of any
women on board, or of men ?
Mr. Burke. That I could recognize; yes.
Senator Smith. Did you know any women or men in lifeboat
No. 8?
Mr. Burke. I knew the steward that got away in No. 8 : that is all.
Senator Smith. No. 1 departed before you arrived?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. t)id anyone get into your boat after you had left
the side of the Titanic?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who?
Mr. Burke. I should say about 12 men and three or four children.
Senator Smith. They were helped in from the
Mr. Burke. They were helped in by the officers; and I was in
the side of the boat^ taking them from the officers.
Senator Smith. How did they happen to be put in ?
Mr. Burke. They were callea^or on the deck, and as they came
along, one by one, they were passed into the boat by me.
Senator Smith. I guess you do not understand me. I mean after
you left the Titanic^ and before you reached the Carpathian did any-
one get into your boat?
Mr. Burke. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who?
Mr. Burke. There were several passengers. An officer's boat came
alongside during the night and gave us about 12 or 15 passengers.
He took our two seamen away, with the intention, I presume, to go
back to the wreckage.
Senator Smith. Was that Mr. Lowe?
Mr. Burke. That was Mr. Lowe, I believe. I thought I recog-
nized his voice.
Senator Smith. Did anyone trv to get into your boat after you
left the side of the Titanic^ and before you reached the Carpai^a,
that did not succeed in getting in, to your knowledge ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir; not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Or getting out of it?
Mr. Burke. No, sir ; only those two sailors.
ft ,^^^^^^^ 99
nXANIO DIBASTBB. 793
«
Senator Smith, Only those two sailors that were transferred to
boat No. 15 ?
Mr. BuBKE. Yes, sir. I do not know the number of the boat
Senator Smith. It was Mr. Lowe's boat ?
Mr. Burke. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did all the passengers in lifeboat No. 10 reach the
Carvathia alive?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. With reference to the woman who you say
fell and was taken in at deck A, did she come back and g^ in the
boat?
Mr. Burke. No, sir ; the boat was in the act of lowering then, and
was being lowered at that time, and we kept right along. This
passenger pulled the woman in.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether she succeeded in get-
ting into another boat or not?
Mr. Burke. I could not say. I supposed she got into another boat
Senator Fletcher. Because you thought No. 10 was one of the
last boats lowered ?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. There were No. 12, No. 14, and No. 16 yet on
that side of the ship. Were they lowered after No. 10?
Mr. Burke. I could not say, I saw the boat next lowered — prob-
ably No. 12. I think that got away about the same time. That was
the only boat I saw left.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see No. 14 and No. 16 lowered ?
Mr. Burke. No ; I did not see them lowered.
Senator Fletcher. Or see them after they got into the water?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How many people were there in No. 8 ?
Mr Burke. I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. What proportion were male and what propor^
tion female?
Mr. Burke. In my boat?
Senator Fletcher. In No. 8? You helped to load No. 8, and
No. 10, also ?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir; I saw most of the women in No. 8. I did
not see any men.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any women on the deck when No.
10 was lowered ?
Mr. Burke. Not after the officer had finished passing those women
to me I have just mentioned. I saw no more.
Senator Fletcher. You had not anything to do with arousing
the passengers on the ship ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. These boats that you assisted in loading, and
the one you got away in, were all lifeboats?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Not collapsible boats ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or emergency boats ?
Mr. Burke. No, sir.
794 TITANIC DISASTER,
Senator Fletcher. There was an emergency boat alongside of or
near No. 1, or under No. 1, was there not?
Mr. Burke. No. 1, 1 believe, was an emergency boat.
Senator Fletcher. No. 1, itself, was an emergency boat?
Mr. Burke. I believe so.
Senator Fletcher. And that had gone when you reached the deck?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. •
Witness excused.
TESTIHONy OF ALFRED CBAWFOKB^Recalled.
Senator Smith. I would like you to state what you did just after
the impact on the night of the accident.
Mr. Crawford. After we struck I went out and saw the iceberg
passing along the starboard side. Then I went back and went
around to all the staterooms to see that all the passengers were up
and called all those; and as I was going around Mr. and Mrs.
Bishop came out and asked me what was the matter. I said we had
run into a piece of ice. I told them to go back to their rooms and
dress; to put on as much of their clothes as they could; that I did
not think there was any immediate danger. Afterwards a gentle-
man— a Mr. Stewart — came down and asked me to help dress him
and to tie his shoes, and I did so. He went on deck and came back
again and told me that it was serious ; that they had told passengers
to put on life belts. I got the life belts down and tied one on him,
and also one on others. I gave them to other ladies and gentlemen
on the deck. After that, during that time, I saw Mr. Ismay come
out of his room, and a bedroom steward named Clark, and they
went on deck.
Senator Smith. What was the number of Mr. Ismay 's room, if
you know?
Mr. Crawford. I should say it was either B-48 or 50.
Senator Smith. On which deck?
Mr. Crawford. B deck.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
Mr. Crawford. I went around to all the staterooms and told Mrs-
Rogers and Miss Rogers to dress, and I helped tie life belts on them.
After I saw all the passengers on the boat deck, I went on the boat
deck myself, and I went to No. 5 lifeboat.
Senator Smith. Was that your station?
Mr. Crawford. No. No. 8 was my station. I went on the star-
board side to No. 5 boat. I saw Mr. Murdock and Mr. Ismay helping
to get the passengers in. They were calling out and assisting all the
women into the boat. Mr. Ismay stopped Mr. Murdock from low-
ering the boat a bit because the after end was getting hung up. Mr.
Murdock called out to the aft man that was lowering the fall to lower
away all the time, that he would beat him, and they lowered the
boat to the water.
Senator Smith. All right. What did you do then?
Mr. Crawford. After I heard they were lowering away the port
boats, I went around to my proper station.
Senator Smith. Which was No. 8?
it ,»^.^,,^ 9 9
TITANIC DI8ABTEB. 795
Mr. Crawford. Which was No. 8. Mr. Wilde, the chief officer,
was there. We filled that boat up with women first. Mrs. Isidore
Straus and her husband were there, and she made an attempt to get
into the boat first. She had placed her maid in the boat previous
to that. She handed her maid a rug, and she stepped back and clung
to her husband and said, "We have been together all these years.
Where you go I go." After that Capt. Smith came to the boat
and asked how many men were in the boat. There were two sailors.
He told me to get into the boat. He gave me orders to ship the row-
locks and to pull for a light He directed me to a light over there.
We were pullins for about six hours, I should say, and there were
four men in the ooat and a lady at the tiller all night.
Senator Smith. Do you know what lady that was?
Mr. Crawford. I have found out since. It was the Countess of
Kothe. She was a countess ; I do not know exactly her proper name.
Senator SMrm. The captain told you to get into that boat and row
toward the light?
Mr. Crawford. Yes ; the captain told me to get in the boat and row
toward that light. He told us to row for the light and to land the
people there and come back to the ship. We puued until day-break
and we could not catch the ship.
Senator FiiETCHBR. What boat was that, No. 5?
Mr. Crawford. No. 8, on the port side.
Senator Smith. Did you see the light?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; there were two lights.
Senator Smith. How far away? »
Mr. Crawford. I should say it was not farther than 10 miles.
Senator Smith. What were thejr; were they signals?
Mr. Crawford. They were stationary masthead lights, one on the
fore and one on the main. Everybody saw them — all the ladies in
the boat They asked if we were drawing nearer to the steamer, but
we could not seem to make any headway, and when day broke we saw
another steamer coming up, which proved to be the Uarpathia; and
then we turned around and came back. We were the farthest boat
away.
Senator Smith. You had not been rowing toward the Cwrpathiaf
Mr. Crawford. No ; we had been rowing me other way.
Senator Smith. Toward this other light?
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. You say you rowed how long?
Mr. C^WFORD. Until we left the ship, because the ladies urged us
to pull for the ship.
Senator Smith. Until daylight?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you got no nearer to that light?
Mr. Crawford. We did not seem to be making any headway at
all, sir.
Senator Smith. Tell the committee what you think that light was.
Mr. Crawford. I am sure is was a steamer, because a sailmg ship
would not have two masthead lights.
Senator Smtth. How far do you think it was away from the
Titanic when the captain told you to row toward it ?
796 '^ TITANIC '* DISASTEE.
Mr. Crawford. Capt. Smith could see the light QJjite plain, as he
pointed in the direction that we were to make for. We pulled toward
the light, and we could not reach it.
Senator Smith. You never returned to the ship's side after you
left it?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir ; not after we left.
Senator Smith. How many passengers were in boat No. 8 ?
Mr. Crawford. I should say oetween 35 and 40.
Senator Smith. How many women?
Mr. Crawford. All women.
Senator Smith. All women except the four men that you have re-
ferred to?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Any children?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was there any light on lifeboat No. 8, was there
any lamp?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir ; the lamp trimmer brought a light long
before we were lowered into the water.
Senator Smith. Hemmings?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you get the lamp from him ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he have other lamps?
Mr. Crawford. Yes ; he had a handful of lamps, taking them to all
the boats.
Senator Smith. He had a lot of lamps and was distributing them
to all the boats ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you saw him do so?
Mr. Crawford. I did ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he handed one to you ?
Mr. Crawford. He handed one to No. 8 boat; yes.
Senator Smfth. And was it in condition to burn?
Mr. Crawford. We lighted it and kept it burning. The wick kept
falling down, but we kept raising it and lighting it There was
plenty of oil in the lamp.
Senator Smith. Was that the only boat you assisted in loading?
Mr. Crawford. No; I was in No. 5 boat. I was over there assist-
ing Mr. Ismay to clear the falls after they were lowering it.
Senator Smith. On which side of the boat?
Mr. Crawford. The starboard side of No. 5. I did not go on the
deck until quite a while, because the order was to clear the passengers
out first.
Senator Smith. Did you see any side lights on this boat that the
captain told you to pull for? *
Mr. Crawford. No; I could not say I saw any side lights.
Senator Smith. Did you see any more of that light than you have
now described?
Mr. Crawford. No. At daybreak it seemed to disappear. We
came around and come back.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rockets?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir ; plenty of them went up from the TUani<^,
and the Morse code was used.
<{ ^,,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 797
Senator Smith. The Morse code, also?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you see any rockets from any other ship ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. After you got away from the side of the Titanic^
how long was it before that vessel sank ?
Mr. Crawford. It was sometime after we got away; probably an
hour or an hour and a half.
Senator Smith. During that time were vou pulling toward that
light ?
Mr. Crawford. Yes; we were, and some of them said not to do it;
but we said that that was the captain's order.
Senator SMrrn. You pulled right for that light?
Mr. Crawford. Right straight for the light.
Senator Smith. A^d did not turn back?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Until you turned to go to the Carpathian at
daylight?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You saw two steamer lights, Mr. Crawford, did
you?
Mr. Crawford. Two lights; one steamer light; one steamer with
two lights. A steamer carriers two lights, one on the fore and one
on the main.
Senator Burton. One was a little higher than the other?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir ; the after light was higher than the fore-
most.
Senator Burton. You can not be deceived about that, can you ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir ; I am positive. Everyone in the boats was
positive of that. We all thought she was making toward us.
Senator Burton. Did she seem then to be movmg toward you ?
Mr. Crawford. No ; she seemed more like she was stationary.
Senator Burton. You thought she was coming toward you?
Mr. Crawford. We thought she was coming toward us.
Senator Burton. Why did you think she was coming toward you?
Mr. Crawford. Sometimes she seemed to get closer; other times
she seemed to be getting away from us.
Senator Burton. Those lights remained visible until it became
daylight, did they?
Mr. Cra%vford. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. You say others in the boat recognized those
lights?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir; all the ladies. The lady with the tiller
saw it.
Senator Fletcher. How far away could you see those lights?
Have you had a^y experience to enable you to judge how far that
ship was away from vou?
Mr. Crawford. I should sa^v it would not be any more than 10
miles at the most; because, being in a low boat, you can not see like
being raised high.
Senator Fletcher. But you could see the lights very distinctly ?
Mr. Crawford. Very distinctly; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How was it that when day broke, and the sun
rose, you could not see any ship ?
798 " TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Crawford. I could not say. We saw the other ship coming to
us, and we turned around for it.
Senator Fletcher. But you could see nothing in the way of a ship
or vessel, or anything, where these lights were?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Can you not see a ship 10 miles off, under those
conditions ?
Mr. Crawford. We did not look for her after we saw the Ccurpa-
thia coming up.
Senator Fletcher. In which direction did the Carpai,Jda appear!
Mr. Crawford. She came up this way [indicating], and we were
pulling over that way.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know on what course you were mov-
ing your boat ?
Afr. Crawford. No ; I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. You could not tell?
Mr. Crawford. No.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the Northern Lights?
Mr. Crawford. I did not notice.
Senator Fletcher. You did not notice the Northern Lights?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know whether you were moving west?
Mr. Crawford. I do not know the compass, and I could not say.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember observing the Northern
Lights ?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You could not tell from the stars in which
direction you were* moving?
Mr. Crawford. No.
Senator Fletcher. Did you move in the direction in which the
Titanic was moving when she went down?
Mr. Crawford. No; we were the other way; that way [indicating].
Senator Fletcher. Which way?
Mr. Crawford. The Titanic was moving this way; we were that
way [indicating].
Senator Fletcher. Suppose the Titanic was going west; then you
went northwest?
Mr. Crawford. If the Titanic was coming along this way we went
across that way, straight for the li^ht.
Senator Fletcher. If the Titanic was moving west you moved
southwest?
Mr. Crawford. Probably so.
Senator Fletcher. Toward the light?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And then the Carpathia appeared in what
direction? •
Mr. Crawford. She came right up around and started to pick up
the boats.
Senator Fletcher. She came from the northeast from you, then?
Mr. Crawford. Probably so.
Senator Fletcher. Assuming you had been going southwest?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. She appeared from the northeast. How far
away was the Carpathia when you saw her ?
t< ««.„.. *^,« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 79§
i
Mr. Crawford. Saw the lights?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Crawford. The captain saw the lights from the bridge.
Senator Fletcher. I mean, how far away was the Carpathia whea
you first saw her?
Mr. Crawford. We did not know it was the Carpathia. We saw
a steamer coming up, and we could see she was picking up the boatai
Then we turned around- and made for her.
Senator Fletcher. How far away was she?
Mr. Crawford. Three or four miles away.
Senator Fletcher. The first you saw of her was when she ap-
peared to be picking up the other boats ?
Mr. Crawford. les, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Then you rowed back?
Mr. Crawford. Pulled right back; yes sir.
Senator Fu:tcher. How many men did you have at the oars!
Mr. Crawford. Four, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Who were they?
Mr. Crawford. Two sailors, a man out of the kitchen, and myselt
Senator Fletcher. Do you know the names of the sailors?
Mr. Crawford. I onlv know a man named Jones. The others I
do not know. ,
Senator Fletcher. Those were the only men in the boat?
Mr.. Crawford. Those were the only men in the boat.
Senator Fletcher. The others were all women? \
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Any children?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You had about how many in that boat? .
Mr. Crawford. I should say between 35 and 40, sir.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. and Mrs. Straus recognize you when they
came to your lifeboat?
Mr. Crawford. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you recognize them?
Mr. Crawford. I recognized them; y?s, sir.
Senator Smith. That is all. ]
Mr. Cr-\wfc)Rd. I thank you, sir.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONY OF MB. ARTHTTB JOHN BEIGHT.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Give vour full name and address.
Mr. Bright. Arthur John Bright, 105 Fir Grove Road, Southamp-
ton.
Senator Smith. How old are you?
Mr. Bright. Forty-one, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Bright. Quartermaster.
Senator Smith. Were you quartermaster on the steamship Titanic
on the voyage from Southampton to the place of the accident?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty when the accident occurred!
40475— PT 9—12 6 .
800 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty Sunday t
Mr. Bright. From 6 to 8 in the evening.
Senatfor Smith. Then you were relievea ?
Mr. Bright. At 8 o'clock.
Senator Smith. What did you do after you were relieved?
Mr. Bright. I turned in.
Senator Smfth. When did your next watch occur?
Mr. Bright. Twelve o'clock.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the collision occurred ?
Mr. Bright. In the bunk, asleep.
Senator Smith. How were you awakened ?
Mr. Bright. One of the watch on deck came and called me and
told me that the ship had collided.
Senator Smith. Do you remember who did that?
Mr. Bright. The man has gone to England. Wynn, his name was.
No; it was one of my own watch.
Senator Smith. What did he say to you ?
Mr. Bright. He says, " The ship is going down by the head."
Senator Smith. Was that immediately after the impact?
Mr. Bright. I do not know. I did not feel the impact at all. It
did not wake me up.
Senator Smith. What did you do? Did you rise?
Mr. Bright. I got up and dressed myself then.
Senator Smith. And what did you do after that ? I want you to
tell, in your own way, just what you did after you dressed yourself.
Mr. Bright. I went out to the after end of the ship to relieve the
man I should have relieved at 12 o'clock, a man by the name of Rowe.
We stood there for some moments and did not know exactly what to do,
and rang the telephone up to the bridge and asked them what we should
io. They told us to bring a box of detonators for them — signals.
Each of us took a box to the bridge. When we got up there we
were told to fire them — distress signals.
Senator Smith. Who fired them ?
Mr. Bright. Rowe and I, and Mr. Boxhall, the fourth officer.
Senator Smith. How long did you continue firing these rockets ?
Mr. Bright. Six were fired in all, I thir^k.
Senator Smfth. One at a time?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir; at intervals.
Senator Smith. At intervals of how long?
Mr. Bright. I could not say. After we would fire one we would
go and help clear the boats away, and then we would come back
again.
Senator Smith. This firing of rockets continued for some time,
did it?
Mr. Bright. I should say probably half an hour.
Senator Smith. In the meantime, were the Morse signals given?
Mr. Bright. I could not say.
Senator Smith. You could not see them?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What color did these rockets that were fired
[Aow?
Mr. Bright. I did not notice the color; but they burst after they
got up in the air.
tt ^ ^„^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 801
Senator Sicith. And then what colors were displayed?
Mr. Bright. I did not look to see.
Senator Smith. You saT you went to the boats after that, or.
from time to time while this firing was going on. Did you assist
in loading the boats ?
Mr. Bright. After we had finished firing the distress signals there
were two boats left. I went and assisted to get out the starboard
one; that is, the starboard collapsible boat. Kowe went away to
help to get the other one out, and I went away myself.
Senator Smith. Was the starboard collapsible boat forward!
Mr. Bright. Close to the bridge, on the aeck.
Senator Smith. And on the starboard side?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you assist in loading that boat?
Mr. Bright. I assisted to get it up.
Senator Smith. You assisted to get it up in position?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know the number of that boat?
Mr. Bright. I could not say. As soon as the boat was got up in
place I was sent away to clear another one in place.
Senator Smith. Ajid you do not know who got into the boats —
what members of the crew or passengers ?
Mr. Bright. I have only learned since that Rowe, the man that
was working with me, got into that boat. He was in charge of the
boat, Rowe was. I was in charge of the other one.
Senator Smith. You do not £iow how many people he had in it?
Mr. Bright. Not in his boat ; only my own.
Senator Smith. And vou do not know what proportions there
were of men and women?
Mr. Bright. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. In this collapsible?
Mr. Bright. No ; that one. My own boat I know about.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Ismay was in Mr.
Rowe's boat?
Mr. Bright. I have learned so since ; I could not say then.
Senator Smith. That was a collapsible lifeboat forward?
Mr. Bright. There were four coUapsibles. That was one of them.
Senator Smith. I understand. That was a collapsible lifeboat
forward, on the starboard side?
Mr. Bright. Close to the bridge; yes.
Senator Smith. Where did you go after that? You went to this
other boat ; but where was it ?
Mr. Bright. I was on the opposite of the deck to what that was.
Senator Smith. On the port side?
Mr. Bright. On the port side, right forward, close to the bridge.
Senator Smith. And what was that, a collapsible?
Mr. Bright. Yes ; identically the same as the other one.
Senator Smith. What did you do there?
Mr. Bright. We got that one out and filled it up with pa&sengers.
Senator Smith. How many passengers; how many people?
Mr. Bright. When the boat left the ship there were 25; all it
would hold.
Senator Smith. Did vou count them?
802 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bright. I did not count them then ; but after we got away there
was Mr. Lowe, the fourth officer, came alongside of us in another
boat, and told us to stick together, and then he asked the number in
the boat, and there was a steward by the name of Hardy counted
them and told him, and then they put ten or a dozen men into our
boat because it was not filled up.
Senator Smith. Ten or a dozen into your boat from where?
Mr. Bright. From some other boat. It was dark, and I cx>uld not
tell which one it was.
Senator Smith. Was it from a swamped boat ?
Mr. Bright. No: from a boat that was overloaded.
Senator Smith. You do not remember the number of it ?
Mr. Bright. No ; it was dark and I could not see.
Senator Smith. You do not remember what officer was in charge
of it, if any?
Mr. Bright. Mr. Lowe, the fifth officer.
Senator Smith. You took these passengers from Mr. Lowe's boat
into yours?
Mr. Bright. There were five boats, all close up together, and where
boats were overloaded he was taking the people out and putting them
into the boats that had room to carry them.
Senator Smith. Did he take any people out of your boat and put
them into his?
Mr. Bright. One seaman went out of my boat.
Senator Smith. When you got part of Mr. Lowe's passengers into
your collapsible boat, how many did you have altogether in it ?
Mr. Bright. If we took a dozen it would be 37. I did not count
them afterwards. There were 25 before.
Senator Smith. How did it happen that you did not load this life-
boat to its capacity before it left the boat deck?
Mr. Bright. I had nothing to do with the loading of it. The
officer w-as in charge of that.
Senator Smith. What officer was superintending the filling of this
boat ?
Mr. Bright. The last officer I saw there was Mr. Lightoller.
Senator Smith. Did it accommodate comfortably these passengers
that you took from Officer Lowe's boat?
Mr. Bright. Oh: there was room for more.
Senator Smith. Did you get any more?
Mr. Bright. No; not until some time afterwards. Just at day-
light we got some more.
Senator Smith. Where did you get them?
Mr. Bright. We saw a boat, one of the collapsible boats, that was
awash, just flush with the water.
Senator Smith. You mean being swamped?
Mr. Bright. Yes; and the same officer, Mr. Lowe, came and took
my boat in tow, because we had very few men to pull, and towed us
down to this one that was just awasn, and took 13 men and 1 woman
off that.
Senator Smith. Did you leave anybody in it ?
Mr. Bright. No; except those two dead bodies. There were two
dead bodies.
Senator Smith. They were standing in water when you came up
to them ?
" TITANIC '' DISASTER. 803
Mr. Bright. About half way — just about the ankles.
Senator Smith. Were they making signs to you ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir. They had been singing out in the dark. As
soon as it got daylight we could see them.
Senator Smith. When it got daylight you went to them ?
Mr. Bright. We rescued theih then.
Senator Smith. And you turned the swamped boat adrift?
Mr. Bright. Yes ; there was no way to do anything with it. We
left it there.
Senator Smith. With the two bodies?
Mr. Bright. AVith two dead bodies. They were covered up with
a life belt over their faces.
Senator Smith. You left them?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take up any more people after you left
this swamped boat ?
Mr. Bright. No; we did not pick up anybody.
Senator Smith. Before you reached the Carpathiaf
Mr. Bright. No; we were taken in tow and towed back under sail
to the Carpathian
Senator Smith. You were taken in tow by Mr. Lowe's boat ?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Smith. Under sail ?
Mr. Bright. He was under sail.
Senator Smith. And you were towed ?
. Mr. Bright. To the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. I will snow you that little picture [handing pho-
tograph to witness]. Do you see anything about that that looks like
your boat ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Sai ith. This boat that is ahead there is not under sail ?
Mr. Bright. No; that is a collapsible boat behind, but we were m
tow. That boat, if it had been behind, would have been under sail.
That is a collapsible boat behind, but it is not the boat I was in.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe's boat had a sail ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; it had a sail.
Senator Smith. Do you know the names of anv of the passengers
or members of the crew that were in the lifeboat in which you
reached the Carvathia?
Mr. Bright. The only one I know of is Steward Hardy. He is
up here now.
Senator Smith. What is his name?
Mr. Bright. Hardy. I knew several third-class passengers by
sight but not by name. One man was in, but has gone to Albion.
He was a passenger to Albion.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismav was not in vour boat, was he?
Mr. Bright. No, sir ; he was in the starboard collapsible boat.
Senator Smith. Were there any other lifeboats on the boat deck
when you took to the lifeboat yourself?
Mr. Bright. All the lifeboats were away before the collapsible
boats were got off.
Senator Smith. All were away before the collapsible boats were
lowered ?
804 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bright. They had to be, because the collapsibles were on the
deck and the other boats had to be lowered before they could be used.
Senator Smith. In other words, the same tackle
Mr. Bright (interrupting). The same tackle that took the other
ones took the collapsibles.
Senator Smith. The same tackle and gear with which the life-
boats were lowered and the emergency boats ?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Smith. The same tackle with which the lifeboats and
emergency boats were lowered was employed, after they had gone,
in lowering the collapsible boats?
Mr. Bright. That is right, sir.
Senator Smith. How do jou know Mr. Ismav was in the collaps-
ible that was on the other side, on the starboard side?
Mr. Bbight. I saw him standing there, and that was the only two
boats left.
Senator Smith. He was not in your boat?
Mr. Bright. No.
Senator Smith. Therefore he must have gone in the other?
Mr. Bright. I find out he was saved, so he must have gone in that
one.
Senator Smfth. Did he make any attempt to get in yours?
Mr. Bright. No ; he did not make any attempt to get in any boat.
Senator Smith. I do not think I have asked vou how many of the
56 in your lifeboat were members of the crew ? "
Mr. Bright. There was just a steward and one fireman.
Senator Smith. And all the others were women ?
Mr. Bright. There were two men passengers there. The remain-
der were women and children.
Senator Smith. Five men and 20 women and children ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir; at first; then there were 10 or a dozen more,
afterwards.
Senator Smith. Tell us exactly. I recall iust what vou said about
taking the others.
Mr. Bright. When we left, there were 20 of them.
Senator Smith. Did you see these lights on the horizon that night ?
Mr. Bright. You mean after the ship went down ?
Senator Smith. No.
Mr. Bright. Before?
Senator Smith. Yes; in any direction. I do not mean in the di-
rection of the Titanic; I mean away from the Titanic,
Mr. Bright. As soon as we got away from the ship, we were told
to keep together, if possible, to keep as close to each other in the
boats as possible. Tnere was a light sighted away, I should say,
possibly 4 or 5 miles away, oflf the port bow of the ship. It looked
to me like a sailing ship-^like a fishing boat. There were no lights
to be seen about the hull of the ship, if it was a ship. We pulled to-
ward that for a time.
Senator Bourne. What was the color of the light that you thought
you saw ?
Mr. Burke. It was a white light, like the steaming light of a
ship would be.
a ..^^.^..^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 801
Senator Fletcher. I am not clear about a statement I under*
stood you to make, that Lowe went away in the starboard collapsible
boat?
Mr. Bright. Sowe, one .of the quartermasters.
Senator Fletcher. Another quartermaster?
Mr. Bright. Yes; Mr. Lowe is fifth officer, and Rowe was quar-
termaster.
Senator Smith. Lowe was in one of the lifeboats ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; he was in one that had a sail on it ; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. The collapsible boat on the port side was the
last boat to leave the ship?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; I was in it myself.
Senator Fletcher. You know it was the last boat to leave the
ship?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How long after she left was it before the ship
went down ?
Mr. Bright. It could not have been long. We were told to puB
clear and get out of the suction, and I suppose we got out about !()•
yards, or maybe a little more, away from the ship.
Senator Fletcher. Did you lie on your oars then, and wait?
Mr. Bright. We were told to keep together, if possible, in the
boats.
Senator Fletcher. Was it 25 or 80 minutes or an hour?
• Mr. Bright. No; T should say it was as near half an hour as possi^
ble. When I left, the forecastle was going under water.
Senator Fletcher. Then the collapsible boat on the starboard
side was next to the last boat to leave the ship ?
Mr. Bright. Yes ; I did not see that lowered. I saw them getting
ready to lower it and I went to the other side to get the other one up.
Senator Fletcher. You know that was the only one left on the
ship?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; all the lifeboats went down before thai.
Senator Fletcher. The collapsible boat on the port side was low-
ered after the one on the starboard side?
Mr. Bright. Yes; the starboard one went down before the othe^
one.
Senator Fletcher. And it went down immediately before the one
on the port side ?
Mr. Bright. I could not say how long. I suppose it was 20 min-
utes or more. It was netting ready before I went down.
Senator Fletcher. Do you think that collapsible boat on the star^
board side was next to the last boat to leave the ship?
Mr. Bright. I do think so ; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. That was the one that was nearly foundered^
afterwards ?
Mr. Bright. I can not answer that.
Senator Fletcher. There was no other? There were only twe
collapsible boats, were there not ?
Mr. Bright. Two.
Senator Fletcher. Then you do not know whether the one on the
larboard side was the one that got in trouble afterwards, and the
other boat foundered ?
<
806 '* TITANIC *' DISASTER.
. Mr. "Bright. I can only answer for two. The other two I do not
know anything about. I know we picked some oflf of one that was
swamped. Which one it was of the four, I do not know.
Senator Fletcher. Was Mr. Ismay on that one ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir. They were mostly — I think there were
several firemen and stewards — I would not be certain — and there
were a few third-class passengers and one woman.
. Senator Fubtcheb. What became of the passengers that were taken
off of that foundered collapsible boat?
Mr. Bright. Mr. Lowe took them into hLs boat. It was only
manned by a crew.
' Senator Fletcher. He took them into his boat?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And none into your boat?
, Mr. Bright. No. He went around to all the boats and put as many
m the other boats as he could, so as to have a clear boat to put in any-
one he could find.
. Senator Fletcher. He had already put 10 or 12 into your boat?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; previous to that.
Senator Fletcher. Nothing happened to your boat?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You did not see any ship or vessel of any sort
next morning, in the direction of the light that vou had seen during
the night?
Mr. Bright. No. That seemed to disappear all at once. The next
we saw was the Carpathian just before daylight
Senator Fletcher. How far were you from her when vou first saw
her?
. Mr. Bright. The Carpaihiaf
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Bright. About 4 miles.
Senator Fletcher. You say that was before davlight?
Mr. Bright. Just before daylight she came in sight.
Senator Fletcher. You saw her lights?
Mr. Bright. Yes ; we could see her lights.
Senator Smith. I want to ask if you picked up Second Officer
Ligh toller from the water?
Mr. Bright. No, sir; I did not
Senator Smith. There were two collapsible boats forward near the
bridge, one on each side?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir; and one on each side of the wheelhouse?
Senator Smith. Then there was a collapsible boat on the officers'
quarters ?
. Mr. Bright. That is what I call the wheelhouse. There was one up
en each side of that
Senator Smith. Which one was the first to go to the water, the
•ollapsible boat that you were in or -the collapsible boat that Mr.
Ismay was in?
Mr. Bright. Mr. Ismay's.
Senator Smith. Then you followed?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And in his boat, how many people were there?
Mr. Bright. I have no idea. I was not there to see them.
( t ^^^ 9 y
nTANIO DISASTEB. 807
Senator Smith. And in your boat you had about how many ?
Mr. Bright. Twenty-five.
Senator Smith. As you have stated, there were 20 women and 6
men?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir; women and children.
Senator Smith. And how high was the water on the deck when
your boat was lowered?
Mr. Bright. Do you know the forecastle of the ship ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Bright. What we call the forecastle head was just going under
water. That would be about 20 feet lower than the bridge, I should
say.
Senator Smith. In other words, the boat had sunk about 50 feet
into the water ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; all of that, because when the boat was low-
ered the foremost fall was lowered down and the after one seemed to
hang, and I called out to hang onto the foremost fall and to see what
was the matter and let go the after one.
Senator Smith. Was there any suction about the Titanic when
your boat was lowered into the water?
Mr. Bright. No. There would not be any suction until she was
under.
Senator SMrrn. I understand that, but I want to know whether
there was any apparent suction there ?
Mr. Bright. I did not have any difficulty in getting away.
Senator Smith. No difficulty at all ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I have asked all of the others who were close about
when the ship went down the same question and I have had the same
reply.
Mr. Bright. I was 50 to 100 yards away, I would say, when she
went down. I could not be exact, but about that.
Senator Fletcher. Did she break in two ?
Mr. Bright. She broke in two. All at once she seemed to go up
on end, you know, and come down about half way, and then the after-
part righted itself again and the forepart had disappeared. A few
seconds the afterpart did the same thing and went down. I could
distinctly see the propellers — everything — out of the water.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any women and children on deck
when you left ?
Mr. Bright. There must have been crowds aboard.
Senator Fletcher. Where you were ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. None in hearing distance of you ?
Mr. Bright. I did not see them.
Senator Fletcher. You can not say positively that there were
none there ?
Mr. Bright. No, sir; because the lights had gone out in the fore-
{)art of the ship then. The lights went out after we got away. The
ights were burning in the afterpart of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. Could you hear any ?
Mr. Bright. Oh, you could hear some.
Senator Fletcher. Wanting to get on the boat ?
ti »«.»,. ^^^^ if
808 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Mr. Bright. I could not say as to that. There were lots that were
asked to get into the boat and they said they would rather stay on
board the ship ; lots of women said that.
Senator Fletcher. Did they say that to you ?
Mr. Bright. Not to me; but I was assisting in getting the boats
ready.
Senator Fletcher. But did any ladies refuse to get in that boat —
that last boat — any who were asked to get in?
Mr. Bright. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Fletcher. Were there some there ?
Mr. Bright. I did not see any when that boat went out.
Senator Fletcher. It was dark?
Mr. Bright. My attention was elsewhere. I was looking after
the boat getting clear. You see they got the boat clear of the ship
and then the people were put in afterwards.
Senator Fletcher. And you were on board the boat?
Mr. Bright.* Yes; keeping her in an upright position to save the
people from falling into the water.
Senator Fletcher. And Mr. Lightoller and several others were
helping the passengers in, you have said. Did they call out for
anybody to come there?
Mr. Bright. No ; I could not hear.
Senator Fletcher. If there were people there you had room for
10 or 12 more anyhow in that boat, and why did you not put them in!
Mr. Bright. I had nothing to do with putting them in.
Senator Fletcher. Why did he not put them in ?
Mr. Bright. I could not say that.
Senator Fletcher. And Mr. Lightoller was left on board ; you left
him on board the boat?
Mr. Bright. We left him on board the ship.
Senator Fletcher. Did you have a light in your boat?
Mr. Bright. There was a lantern passed into the boat, but I could
not light it. I tried to light it.
Senator Fletcher. All the lights on the ship were not out then?
Mr. Bright. No; it was only the after section, though, that was
burning. The after part of the boat had her lights burning.
Senator Bourne. After she broke in two?
Mr. Bright. Until she went under water ; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Were you the last boat to leave the ship?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And you were from 50 to 100 yards from the
ship when she sank?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. And you rowed from the ship without cessa-
tion?
Mr. Bright. Without what?
Senator Bourne. Without stopping?
Mr. Bright. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Until she sank. How long a period was it from
the time you left the ship until she sank?
Mr. Bright. I only had two oars pulling, you know.
Senator Bourne. How long a time do you think it was — ^how
many minutes?
a -»-..«.*^ ff
TITANIC DI8A6TEB. 809
Mr. Bright. I should say it was nearly a half an hour. We were
not pulling in a straight direction.
Senator Boxtbne. lou were circling around?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; trying to find the other boats.
Senator Bourne. Oh, you were not trying to get away from the
ship.
Mr. Bright. We were told to get together if we could do so, and
keep together, and as soon as I located a boat I would pull for that.
Senator Bourne. But at no time were you more than 100 yards
from the ship from the time you left it?
Mr. Bright. Not when she went down.
Senator Bourne. Did you hear any explosion after you left the
ship?
Mr. Bright. I heard something, but I would not call it an explo-
sion. It was like a rattling of chain, more than anything else.
Senator Bourne. You did not hear any explosion? You do not
think the boilers blew up?
Mr. Bright. No; it was not like that; it was not such a sound as
we would hear if the boilers exploded. It was like a rattling of
chain.
Senator Bourne. The ship went down by her bow first, and you
could see the stem and see the keel on the stern, could you ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. Then that righted itself again, got on an
even keel again after that.
Senator Boxtrne. That is, the stern?
Mr. Bright. It settled down in the water on an even keel.
Senator Bourne. But the bow had disappeared?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Hence, you assumed that she broke in two. The
bow lights were extinguished, were they?
Mr. Bright. You could not see anything of them after that.
Senator Bourne. Did you see any lights on the stem after she
settled?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir; until she finally disappeared underneath
the water.
Senator Bourne. Until the stem disappeared, after the break ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Wher^ did she break? Tell us about where
she broke in two.
Mr. Bright. Well, it was as near the middle as anything, I should
say; but it was dark.
Senator Smith. Who handed you the lamp; was it the lamp
trimmer, Hemmings?
Mr. Bright. I could not say who it was. The lamp trimmer
was assisting to get that boat out with me. I could not say who it
was.
Senator Smith. He did not hand you the lamp ?
Mr. Bright. I could not say. The boat was over the side then.
Senator Smith. Did you see the lamp trimmer?
Mr. Bright. I saw him.
Senator Smith. Did you see him with lamps in his arms going
around giving them out to the boats?
810 TITANIO DISASTER.
Mr. Bright. No; the last time I saw him he was assisting to get
that boat out.
Senator Smith. After you left the Titanic in this collapsible boat
did anyone try to board it from the water?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or did anyone try to get out of it?
Mr. Bright. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not go back to the scene of this disaster
after you pulled out into the sea, away from the Titanic f
Mr. Bright. No ; by the time we got clear we did not have time to
go back. We were told to keep together, you see
Senator Smith. You kept together and did not return again to the
scene of the disaster?
Mr, Bright. No, sir. Mr. Lowe, who gave us the order to stay to-
gether, went back.
Senator Smith. In No. 14?
Mr. Bright. I could not say.
Senator Smith. He went back in the sailboat?
Mr. Bright. He did not have anv sail up then.
Senator Smith. Well, he had sail up when you next saw him ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he took your boat in tow ?
Mr. Bright. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
I will ask the officer to call Luis Klein.
Mr. Cornelius (after calling the witness outside of the committee
room). No, sir; he does not respond.
TESTIMONY OF ALFRED GBAWFOBD— Secalleifl.
Senator Fletcher. You testified regarding that iceberg. You
said, as I recall, that you saw an iceberg passing on the starboard
side?
Mr. Craw^ford. Yes; after the collision.
Senator Fletcher. Where were you?
Me. Crawford. I was on B deck. I went out from B deck, out to
the promenade there.
Senator Fletcher. That was aft?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; forward.
Senator Fletcher. You were forward?
Mr. Crawford. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. t)n B deck?
Mr. Crawford. On B deck.
Senator Fletcher. And you saw the iceberg, the iceberg that
struck the ship?
Mr. Crawtj'ord. I saw the iceberg going along the starboard side,
sir.
Senator Fletcher. Just describe that iceberg, please.
Mr. Crawford. It looked like a large, black object going alongside
the ship.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell us about the size ?
Mr. Crawford. I could not see the top because there was a deck
above us.
Senator Fletcher. It was higher than B deck?
4 4 ,,^ 7 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 811
Mr. Crawtobd. Oh, yes; much higher.
Senator Fletcher. And how close was the side of the ship to it ?
Mr. Crawford. It did not seem very far away.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell anything about the dimensions
of it, as to the length or the width?
Mr. Crawford. No, sir; I could not. I just saw the object scrap-
ing alongside the ship.
Senator Fletcher. Did it come in contact with the side of the
ship?
Mr. Crawford. I do not think so.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. I think that completes the crew, does it not, Mr.
Cornelius?
Mr. Cornelius. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Sammis here ?
Mr. Cornelius. No, sir ; he will be here Monday morning.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Bottomley here?
Mr. Cornelius. He will be here Monday morning also.
Senator Smith. Then, with the consent of my colleagues, we will
adjourn until Monday morning at 10 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 6.10 p. m., the committee adjourned until Monday,
April 29, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
'' TIT^AuDSriC " DIS^A^STEIi
^ i'^ HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
Pt'RSUAKT TO
S. RES. !28o
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 10
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WA8HINGT0K
GOVERNMENT PRIKTIKG OmOB
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
United States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairwan.
GBOROE C. PERKINS, Californift. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oiegon. FRANCIS O. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKiNSTBT, Clerk.
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Page.
Marconi, Guglielmo (continued) 813
Sammifl, Frederick M 828
Woolner, Hugh 849
Bride, Harold S. (recalled) •. 864
Boxhall, Joseph Groves (recalled) 876
Boxhall, Joseph Groves (separate testimony before Senator Burton) 898
Cottam, Harold G. (recalled) 886
ui
"TITANIC DISASTER.
MONDAY, APRIL 29, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate,
Washington, D, C,
The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Newlands, and Fletcher.
TESTIMOVT OF GUeUELMO KABCOHI— Continiied.
Senator Smith. You were sworn a day or two ago, Mr. Marconi. I
asked you, when you were on the stand before, whether you had sent
any messages to the Carpathia during her voyage from the scene of
this catastrophe to New York, and I recall your reply. Would you
like to correct it ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Please do so.
Mr. Marconi. I said that I had not sent any message, as far as I
could remember, to the Carpathia, during her voyage to New York
with the survivors of the Titanic,
On my return to New York, after having testified, I found that I
had sent one message to the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Have you that message ?
Mr. Marconi. I immediately wrote a letter to you, Senator, stating
the fact and inclosing the message.
Senator Smith. Is that the message [lianding Mr. Marconi a tele-
gram]?
Mr. Marconi. This is the message, and a confirmation of the Sias-
conset station.
Senator Smith. Please read the message, giving the date, hour, to
whom addressed y and all other contents.
Mr. Marconi. It was transmitted on April 18, 1912, at 1 a. m., to
Cowden, Marconi station, Siasconset, Mass.:
Send following: immediately; advise us delivery stop.
Which means full stoj).
Wire news dispatch immediately to Siasconset or to Navy boats. If this impossible,
ask captain give reason why no news allowed to be transmitted.
GUGUELHO MaBCONI.
Would you like me to give the station signs also?
Senator Smith. Yes; please give the telegram in full.
813
814 TETAKIO DISABTBB.
Mr. Marconi. It is as follows:
April 18/12 StaUon sent to. Time
No. 2. M. Y. No. 2. 1 a. m.
GowDEN, Marconi Station:
Send following immediately; advise us delivery stop. Wire news dispatches imme-
diately to Siasconset or to Navy boats. If this impossible ask captam give reason
why no news allowed to be transmitted.
GuouELMO Marconi.
The Siasconset station sent to my office in New York a return of
what it actually transmitted to the Carpatkia. This is the message:
44/3. Siasconset Station, April 18, 1912.
Words D H (which means "deadhead).
Service instructions Nyk (New York).
station nnt to. Time sent. By whom sent.
MP A 3.15 a JC
To Opr. S. S. MPA.
Wire news dispatches immediately to Siasconset or to Navy boats; if this impoasible
ask captain give reason why no news allowed to be transmitted.
GuouELMO Marconi.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, what did "J. C." mean on that
message?
Mr. Marconi. It should be the initial of the operator who sent the
message.
Senator Smith. In your New York office ?
Mr. Marconi. No; in the Siasconset office; Cowden, I should say.
It was this man Cowden.
Senator Smith. Yes. Do you know who he was ?
Mr. Marconi. No; I do not know who he was.
Senator Smith. By name ?
Mr. Marconi. I understand that he was the operator.
Senator Smith. ''S. S. M. P. A.*^ was the cipher of the Carpathiat
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. And ''S. S.'' meant steamship ?
Mr. Marconi. Steamship; yes sir.
Senator Smith. April 18 was the date on which the Carpathia
arrived in New York ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir. Of course, I should call your attention to
the fact that it was 1 o'clock in the morning.
Senator Smith. The times were 1 o'clock in the morning and 3.15?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any reply ?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. Did your office receive any reply ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not think so.
Senator Smith. Did you make any inquiry about it ?
Mr. Marconi. I made inmiiry. I was told nothing was received.
Senator Smith. Who tola you i
Mr. Marconi. Mr. BottomJey, and, I believe, Mr. Sammis. But I
say, certainly, Mr. Bottomley.
Senator Smith. Have you talked to the operator about it?
Mr. Marconi. I beg pardon, Senator; which operator?
Senator Smith. Have you talked with the operator on the Car-
patkia about this ?
<( ,^^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 815'
Mr. Marconi. No- I have not. I have talked to Bride, who was
the operator of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. He was the operator of the Titanic?
Mr. Marconi. He was the operator of the Titanic and was trans-
ferred to the Carpathia,
Senator Smith. What did Bride say about it ?
Mr. Marconi. If I remember correctly — he is here to testify
himself.
Senator Smith. I know he is here
Mr. Marconi (interrupting). But if I remember correctly, he did
see something of that. The message was received.
Senator Smith. But no reply was sent to you ?
Mr. Marconi. No reply was sent. At least no reply was received,
I should say.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, do you know how the Chester and the
Salem are equipped with wireless ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the Cheater and the Salem
are so equipped that they can, with accuracy, communicate with
other wireless stations ?
Mr. Marconi. I know they can communicate with accuracy; but as
to how they communicate, or how far, or what power they have, I am
totally ignorant.
Senator Smith. Do you know anything about their operators ?
Mr. Marconi. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Have you any reason to believe their operators are
not well qualified for their work?
Mr. Marconi. I have no reason myself to believe that, except from
things I have heard from operators that have testified in this inquiry.
Senator Smith. What have you heard ?
Mr. Marconi. I heard that they worked slowly, or that they did
not seem to be well acquainted with the continental Morse code.
Senator Smith. What code did they use ?
Mr. Marconi. I presume tliey used the Marconi, but I do not know.
Senator Smith. Is tlicre' any serious difficulty in communication
between your offices and the naval offices because of the difference in
code }
Mr. Marconi. Tlicre w^ould be if different codes were adhered to.
it would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to communicate
accurately.
Senator Smith. What code do you use i
Mr. Marconi. We use the international Morse code, as used in
Europe and Great Britain, and as specified or determined by the
International Regulations on Wireless Telegra])hy.
Senator Smith. There does not seem to have been any difficulty in
the Government boat Florida and various const stations of the Gov-
ernment picking up these messages from the Carpaihiaf
Mr. Marconi. No; those stations did not appear to have any
difficulty.
Senator Smith. You desire the committee to understand that these
two telegrams I just read are the only mcssagjes you communicated
to the Carpathia on the day of her arrival in New York ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; the onl>' ones that I can trace, and the
only ones that I remember.
S16 '' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And the message that is signed by Mr. Marconi at
X).33 p. m. on the 18th you do not identify?
Mr. Marconi. I do not identify it, and I state that it was abso-
lutely unauthorized.
Senator Smith. No matter wlio signed it ?
Afr. M\RCONi. No matter who signed it; I state that I did not send
it or authorize it to be sent.
Senator Smith. You desire tlie committee to understand that you
disapprove both the language of those wireless messages and the
unauthorized use of your name ?
Mr. Marconi. Absolutely; I wish the committee to understand
that clearly.
Senator Smith. Have you anything further you care to say to the
committee, Mr. Marconi, that wall throw light on the purposes of this
inauiry ?
Mr. Marconi. I have something further to s^y. I should say I
jhave some more messages which were sent by my company to various
shore stations and to the Carpathia, and with your permission I will
read them, with a view of getting them into the record. I should also
ask you to allow me to say that the message which I sent to the
CarpcUJiiaj to which you have already referred, proves, I think, q^uite
conclusively that I had no intention of preventing United States N avy
boats from receiving any information from the CarpcUhia, I was
-exceedingly surprised, as everybody else was at the time, that no
news was coming through, and 1 was very much worried about it, and
that day I did suggest that this message should be sent, and it was
sent.
Senator Smith. I want to ask you a straight, square question:
Whether you infer that the failure of your operators to communicate
with the Salevi or the Chester or with your office, or to give this news
of the trip of the Carpaihia to New York to the public, was influenced
in any manner by the hope of reward from the sale of exclusive
information in the possession of wireless operators ?
Mr. Marconi. My opinion is it was not influenced in any way,
because I do not see that they had anv reason to believe or to hope
or to think that they were gomg to sell their story to anybody.
Senator Smith. A as Mr. Binns one of your operators?
Mr. \L\RCONi. Yes; he was.
Senator Smith. V as he one of your operators when the liepublic
went down ?
Mr. Marconi. He was.
Senator SMrrn. Mipht not the fact that he received money for his
story of that disaster have influenced these operators somewhat in
their course?
Mr. Marconi. Franklv, I should sav no.
Senator Smith (aside). Otiicer, I want Mr. Cottam to step outside
of that door while I am directing this inquiry to Mr. Marconi.
Mr. Marconi. Frankly, I should say not. Mr. Binns nas received
a great deal of notoriety, and has benefited himself by the fact of his
having been on board tlie liepublic and on duty on that occasion. I
might say that he is still employed in writing newspaj)er articles and
magazine articles about operators, and the sea, and ships, and thinirs
of that kind, wliich have absolutely nothing to do with the actual
facts of the loss of the Republic. It seems to me that the public
^' TITANIC " DISASTER. 817
interest, or the newspaper interest, becomes so great when an indi-
vidual finds himself placed in the position of these men, that what-
ever they say that has a public interest is paid for by these enter-
prising American journals.
Senator Smith. I am going to ask you one further question. You,
being the leading and most active figure in the field or wireless teleg-
raphy, probably the most prominent man in the world in that work,
and your offices being in every part of the world and on most of the
ships of the sea, I ask you whether from the developments of this
inquiry you do not feel that it is incumbent upon you to discourage that
practice; indeed, to prevent it altogether, so far as you are aWe?
Mr. Marconi. Certainly; I am entirely in favor of discouraging the
practice, and I naturally give very great weight to any opinion
expressed by the chairman of this committee.
Senator Smith. You have other telegrams there, and that we may
not omit from the record anything that ought to be in it, I desire to
ask you to read such as you ought to read and to file sucli as you
consider it unnecessary to read.
Mr. Marconi. The first is a telegram dated April 15, 1912, trans-
mitted at 10.26 a. m., addressed to '* Marconi Station, Cape Race,
Newfoundland. ' '
Keep us advi!»ed Titanic.
Marconi Co. of America.
Another message, also dated April 15, 1912. Time sent, 8.46 a. m.
Addressed, * ^Marconi Station, Camperdown, Nova Scotia."
Get us quick information condition Titniv'c. Answer this office.
Inooram.
That is the code signature of the Marconi Co. of America.
Another message, dated April 16, 1912, marked '*Rush.'' This
was sent at 8.06 a. m., and addressed to '^ Marconi Station, Camper-
down, Nova Scotia."
Wire present poeitiou Carpathia and Olympic or where you think they are.
Marconi Co.
Senator Fletcher. You got no replies to either of those messages ?
Mr. Marconi. I got no replies.
Another message, dated April 16, 1912, and marked *^Rush,''
addressed to *' Marconi Station, Camperdown, Nova Scotia."
Franklin, WTiite Star, desires know why they are not receiving me.ssage.« from Car-
pathia. Rush answer.
Marconi Co.
Senator Fletcher. What time was this ?
Mr. Marconi. It was sent at 3 p. m., April 16.
Senator Smith. Tuesday?
Mr. Marconi. Tuesday. I will read the message again.
Franklin, White Star, desires know why they are not receiving messages from Car-
pathia.
Senator Smith. This is directed through your Nova Scotia station ?
Mr. Marconi. Through the station at Camperdown, Nova Scotia.
Senator Smith. From where was it sent?
Mr. Marconi. It was sent from New York.
818 TITANIC DISASTER.
Another message is dated April 16, 1912. Time sent, 4 p. m.
Addressed to *^ Marconi Station, Cape Race, Newfoundland."
Can you give us any information of the Califomian; has she any passengers?
Mahconi i'o.
Another message, dated April 16, 1912, addressed '^Marconi Sta-
tion, Cape Race, Newfoundland."
Franklin, White Star Line, desires to know why they not receiving messages frcMii
Carpathia. Rush answer.
Marconi Co.
Another message, dated April 16, 1912. Time sent, 3 a. m. Ad-
dressed to ^'Cowden, Siasconset, Mass.''
If you have any names ol passengers on Carpathia rush here.
Marconi Co.
Senator Smith. I understand that you received no replies to these
messages ?
Mr. Marconi. I think there was a reply to some of them.
Senator Smith. Have you any replies? If so, please read them in
connection with the messages.
Mr. Marconi. I am sorry to say I have not the replies with me.
Senator Smith. If there are rephes to any of those messages I
should like to have them.
Mr. Marconi. You will certainly have them. I will teleCTaph for
them if they are not here. I have a very few more to read, but some
of them may be material, and I wdll ask your indulgence.
Here is another message, dated April 16, 1912. Time sent 8.15
a. m. Addressed to "Marconi Station, Cape Race, Newfoundland."
Can't you inform us Virginian's position or whether she has any Titanic passengers^
Rush.
Marconi Co.
I wish to call the attention of the committee particularly to this
message, in view of the fact that it shows that the company had no
intention of keeping the news exclusively for one paper. It was sent
April 16, 6.50 p. m. Marconi Station, Siasconset, Mass.
Fitting tug with plain set sailing from Newport Wednesday morning chartered by
New York American. Binns and Elenschneider aboard. Theirs will be aU collect
Give them good att-ention. Call letters "JB." Stop. Wave will probably be dbort.
Marconi Co.
The same message, the same words, were sent to the Marconi
Station at South Wellfleet, Mass.; it is as follows:
Fitting tug with plain set sailing from Newport Wednesday morning chartered by
New York American. Binns and Elenschneider aboard. Theirs will be all collect.
Give them good attention. Call letters "J. B." (advise Siasconset). Stop wave wOl
probably be short.
Marconi Co.
Another message dated April 17, 1912. Time sent 12.37 p. m.
Addressed to Christ enson, Marconi Station, South Wellfleet, Mass.
Is Carpathia in communication with Cape Cod or Siasconset?
Marconi Co
A further message, April 17, sent at 9.40 p. m. Addressed to
C'owden, Siasconset.
Do all possible, ai^ertain if Astor on Carpathia.
F. M. Sammis.
*^ TITANIC " DISASTER. 819
A further message of April 17, sent at 6.26 p. m., addressed to
"Ward, Marconi station, Sagaponack," Text:
Tug Salutation call K fitted coil plain aerial leaving New London.
Marconi Co.
I also call attention to the following message, dated April 17, sent
at 4.34 p. m., addressed to ''Marcom station, Seagate, New York."
Text:
South Wellfleet, Siasconeet, Sagaponack, and Seagate will handle Carpathians busi-
ness exclusively. All other commercial and Government stations will cease trans-
mitting while Carpathians business is being exchanged with the above-mentioned
stations. No work other than Carpathians and business from Government ships going
to meet Carpathia will be permitted.
Marconi Wireless Telegraph Co. of America.
Senator Smith. What was the date of that message ?
Mr. Marconi. The 17th of April. The time, 4.34 p. m.
Senator Smith. That was Wednesday ?
Mr. Marconi. That was Wednesday.
Senator Smith. At 4.34 p. m. ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that what you call a ''silence injunction'' ?
Mr. Marconi. I should call it an instruction to direct any station
that had no business to be working in connection with the Uarvaihia
not to interfere. This also stated that privilege or precedence should
be given to Carpathia' s business and to the business of Government
ships goin^ to meet the Carpathia. I think these instructions are
very definite.
Senator Smith. Government stations were all silenced, and South
Wellfleet, Siasconset, Sagaponack, and Seagate were left free to do
business with the CarpaMdaf
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir; and with the Government ships.
Senator Smith. These stations were left free to do business with
Government ships ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir. I think, as I stated before, that an arrange-
ment had been arrived at between us and the Government for the
purpose of expediting the receipt of any news.
Senator Smith. Yes; but no work otlier than the Carpathia'^ busi-
ness from Government ships going to meet the Carpathia was to be
permitted. That says "from" Government ships. Is that a limita-
tion on their right to receive messages ?
Mr. Marconi. Xo, sir; it wr.s intended that any communication
to or from Government ships might be had.
Senator Smith. It does not say that. It says ''from Government
ships going to meet the Carpathia.'^
Mr. Marconi. I think it would be understood the way I state it.
Senator Smith. It was intended they should have the right to
communicate as well as to receive ?
Mr. Marconi. Certainly; it was intended that way. I have here a
further message, dated April 18, 1912, sent at 1.25 p. m., addressed to
'*Sam Small, tug Mary Scully, call *JB.' "
Transfer at once Jack Binns to Carpathia; alBo Hawley and Dunn. Carpathia opera-
tor exhausted.
(Si^ed) MgGrath and Sammis.
<t 9y
820 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. What date is that ?
Mr. Marconi. April 18.
Senator Smith. Thursday ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know about what time of day that was ?
Mr. Marconi. 1.25 p. m.
A further message, dated April 18, 1912, time sent blank, addressed
to ''Ward, Sagaponack,'' i'eads as follows:
Endeavor learn for me if Isadore Straus or wife aboard.
Senator Smith. What date is that ?
Mr. Marconi. April 18, but no time mark.
Senator Smith. That indicates you had in your possession no
information whatever regarding the loss of Mr. and Mrs. Straus up to
the day the Carpathia reached New York ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Here is a further message dated April 18, 1912; time sent, 1 p. m.;
addressed to Ward, Sagaponack. Text:
Personal for me. Make every effort learn if Chas. M. Hays, Grand Trunk president,
on Carpathia. Wire me quick.
Samuis.
Senator Smith. That is the same date ?
Mr. Marconi. That is the same date, sir.
I have also a further message dated April 18, 1912 ; time sent, 12. 10
p. m., to Cowden — this is spelled '*Or-o-w-d-e-n,'' but I am sure it
should be **C-o-w-d-e-n," Siasconset. Text:
Rush definite information whether Astor, Butts, or Guggenheim on Carpathia.
Marconi Co.
Senator Smith. What is the hour and date ?
Mr. Marconi. Eighteenth of April, 12.10 p. m.
I have also a furtlier message which, on this copy, has not a date;
time sent, 10.52 a. m. ; addressed to Marconi Station, Sable Island,
Nova Scotia. The text :
Franklin, White Star Line, wishes know if his message to Carpathia reaueeting name^
of remaining additional survivors and crew was delivered ; if not try ruan delivery and
obtain reply. Inogram.
Senator Smith. If I recollect it, the list of survivors that came bj
wireless was transmitted by way of the Cape Race Station ?
Mr. Marconi. I believe so. I do not remember.
Senator Smith. Am I right that Mr. Bride was the operator who
sent those names ? Did you send those names, Mr. Bride ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Mr. Franklin. Those were only the names of the first and second
class passengers, Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. The names of the third-class passengers came by
way of the Chester, Did you send those, Mr. Bride ?
Mr. Bride. I sent those; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to know, Mr. Marconi, how you account for
your inability to get anj reply from the Carpathia to these numerous
messages sent by the chief officers of the Marconi Co. between Manday,
the day the Carpathia started with those survivors to New York, and
Thui-s^ay night, up to the landing of the Carpathia in New York?
t* -^-..^^•^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB, 821
Mr. Marconi. I have no explanation to give, except I believe the
operators were busy all the time transmitting messages from the sur-
vivors which were on the Carpathia to their families. I do not know
whether the captain of the Carpathia had any reason or any intention
not to transmit information which he had.
Senator Smith. I do. I know that the captain did not have any
such disposition or desire and that he officially disclaimed to me per-
sonally any responsibility therefor both on the night I talked with
him on the Carpathia upon her arrival, and, I think, in the testimony
given by him the following day.
Mr. Marconi, if, as a matter of fact, the wireless operators on the
Carpathia were busy transmitting other business, indeed, so busy that
they could not answer messages from the managing officers or your
company, which employed them, is there not some means of as?er-
taining that fact definitely by checking up their accounts and reports
made to your company of the exact busmess they did during those
four days ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; but that would require time, in consequence of
the fact that the Carpathia left with all records of the messages re-
ceived on the Carpathia and transmitted from the Carpathia. I have
no knowledge whether some of these messages which were sent to
shore stations for transmission to the Carpathia were received on the
Carpathia or not.
Senator Smith. According to the testimony of Yt, Cottam, he was
so weary from constant vim that he fell asleep at his post of duty,
and I have been unable to cliscover any great amount of Dusiness that
was transacted between Monday and Thursday by the operators. I
know they did some business, but just how busy they were with out-
side messages is not veiy clear to me. If there is any method by
which your office can find out Just how much business was done and
with wnom it was transacted, I shall appreciate it if you will get that
information for us. F'or instance, if Airs. Wideher or Mrs. Thayer
or Mrs. Astor or any of the other women who were aboard the ship
had naturally wanted to communicate with their homes here, or all of
the passengers, for that matter, and the wireless operators had been
doing that Dusiness for the passengers, the public would have had the
tiding from those sources; and your messages indicating solicitude
about the presence of Mr. Hays aboard the Varpathia and these other
gentlemen right up to Wednesday, indicate that their relatives were
not advised either in Canada or in this country.
I do not want to leave any uncertainty about this wireless feature
of this catastrophe, because I think it goes squarely to the crux of
this whole matter, following the collision; and your disposition to
help clear it up I appreciate. But I do not want to leave it in just
the shape it is m now. Were you going to say something, Mr. Sammis
Mr. dAMMis. I handled the messages for the vice president of the
Grand Trunk Railway and for Mr. Astor, and would have handled
them for anybody else who had come to headauarters in order to
obtain help, and I would say that both Mr. Kelly and — I have for-
gotten the other vice president of the Grand Trunk
Mr. Marconi. Mr. Hays.
Mr. Sammis. Mr. Hays, of the Grand Trunk — said that the whole
Pacific coast and Canada were waiting for confirmation of the news
which they had received by the Canadian station that Mr. Hays was
i( ».-..^,*^ ff
822 TITANIC DISASTBB.
not on board. By means of this message which has been read to
you I obtained confirmation of news whicn they already had. That
also applies to the Astor family.
Senator Smith. I am not inquiring particularly about individuals.
Mr. Sammis. I mean that all these people had received word before,
and I have learned since the Carpathia arrived that messages were
being handled at the rate of 40 and 50 an hour, sometimes, and that
probably not less than 4,000 or 5,000 words of urgent personal tele-
grams from the survivors of the Titanic were handled, and we have
copies of such messages.
Senator Smith. From what stations ?
Mr. Sammis. The four stations that have been named.
Senator Smith. Sent to the Carpaihia or from the CarpcUhiaf
Mr. Sammis. Mostly from the Carpathia, The Carpaihia would
not — or did not, apparently — wish to accept any messages to him,
because he considered, and rightly so, I think, that these had a prior
right; that the people who were most directly concerned and who
were in the greatest anguish were the people who had survivors on
board the Carpaihia, and they wanted to know that they were safe.
I think these messages were not made pubUc to any degree. I have
not as yet seen one complaint from any survivor on the Carpaihia
about ms inability to get messages ashore.
Senator Smith. It appears from Mr. Franklin's testimony that the
White Star offices were crowded all day with persons seeking informa-
tion from people on board.
Mr. Sammis. I think that could be very easily accounted for bv
the very example I have noted, that the Grand Trunk officials had
had two messages that Mr. Hays was not on board, but they still
. wanted one more word in order to make sure.
Mr. Marconi. I think I have replied to the question. I want to
say something in regard to this, if I may. I nave spoken to the
operator Bride since he arrived and he told me that several hun-
dred messages — 400 or 500 messages — had been transmitted from
the Carpathia and acknowledged by the land stations. They were
all messages to relatives of the survivors or to relatives of those who
had perished.
Senator Smith. How can we ascertain whether any messages were
transmitted by Mr. Ismay to the Olymvic from the Carpamia, and
from the Olympic to the Wliite Star offices at Liverpool ? Is there
any wav to ascertain those facts ?
Mr. Marconi. The only way is to go through the records of the
messages of these ships. I am assuming tliat I am practically before
a court of law and bound to give up these messages. There is some-
thing in the English law which prevents disclosing messages.
Senator Smith. I do not think you are committing any offense by
giving them up.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I have gone on that assumption as to every
message I have got hold of here in America; I have produced every
matenal message.
Senator Smith. How can we ascertain what messages were sent by
telephone from New York to Montreal, and from ^lont^eal to Cape
Race, or Nova Scotia stations, and then to the ship?
Mr. Marconi. I tliink as to the telephone messages you can only
fiave the testimony of those who sent them. But tne messages sent
'' TITANIC '' DISASTER. 828
to the ship should be recorded on the proper forms. Of course I am
prepared to admits perhaps due to the fact that the operators were
exhausted and tired on the Carpathian that some of tiie messages may
not have been recorded. I do not say they were not, but they may
not have been. In the ordinary course of events, however, they
should be all recorded, and I have no reason to believe they were not
recorded in tliis instance.
Senator Smith. Do you not regard it as a little singular, to say the
least, that the sinking of the Titanic should not become known at the
White Star offices until thev received official information of the fact
from Capt. Haddock of the Olympic well on toward midday on
Monday ?
Mr. iVIarconi. It doubtless appears strange to one not acquainted
with the exact facts; but if the facts as they have been reported to
me are correct, a very easy explanation can be given.
Senator Smith. All right.
Mr, Marconi. The Carpaihiay I understand, reached the position
of the disaster early in the morning and picked up the survivors. Its
wireless installation was not powerful enough to reach shore stations
in such a manner as to transmit accurate messages. What is the ship
you mentioned, the Olymjncf
Senator Smith. I mentioned the Olympic because that seemed to
be the source from which this information came to Mr. Franklin.
Mr. Marconi. The Olympic heard of the accident, and by means of
her more powerful installation was able to transmit it, I believe, to
Cape Race. But, so far as I know, the Olympic did not send this
message until late in the afternoon, or at least midday.
Senator Smith. Suppose the Olympic were between Cai>e Race
and the Carpathia, and only about 300 miles from the Carpathian do
you not think that the Olympic might have been utilized by the
Carpathia to have given information ?
Mr. Marconi. I have no report of what actually happened, but I
should say 300 miles was a little too great a distance for tne Carpathia
to accuratelv transmit messages to the Olympic,
Senator omith. What wave length were they using on the Car-
pathiaf
Mr. Marconi. I do not know; but they must have been using one
of the authorized wave lengths.
Senator Smith. They were using the 600-meter wave length ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that 600-meter wave length ought to have
put them in touch with a station 300 miles away ?
Mr. Marconi. Not necessarily. It depends on the power behind
that wave length.
Senator Smith. From the messages received and picked up from
time to time by the Califomian and by the Frankfurt their apparatus
was working fairly well.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; I think it was; but I beg to recall that the
captain of the Carpathia^ the operators, and myself, I think, have
already testified that the maximum reUable range of the wireless
outfit on the Carpathia was 200 miles.
Senator Smith. Yes; that was the reliable range; but in the
night time that range could be exceeded, with 600-wave length, by
considerable ?
824 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Marconi. Yes; but not in a reliable manner. You could not
always rely at night upon sending farther than 200 miles^ although
on occasions you might transmit messages 500 miles.
Senator Smith. Suppose I am able to demonstrate that, as a mat-
ter of fact, using 600-wave length, it was recorded 500 miles from
this place; then what would you have to say about it?
Mr. Marconi. I should say that was under exceptionally favorable
circumstances.
Senator Smith. But not very unusual ?
Mr. Marconi. I do not understand what you mean by unusual.
Senator Smith. I mean so extraordinary as to excite surprise upon
your part.
Mr. Marconi. No; not so unusual as to excite surprise, but I
should say it was a condition of things that occurs perhaps once, per-
haps three or four times during each night, as a rule.
Senator Smith. You can unaerstand, Mr. Marconi, I do not like to
seem to be so minute or to press you so hard: but holding in my hand
a telegram signed ** White Star Line," datea at 8.27 the evening fol-
lowing the sinking of the ship and saying —
Titanic proceeding to Halifax, passengers will probably land there Wednesday all
safe "
I am admonished to find out if possible, and am determined to do
it, upon what that information was based.
Mr. Marconi. I am at your disposal to help you to the best of my
ability.
Senator Smith. If there are any replies to any of these messages 3'ou
have filed, we would like to have them.
Mr. Sammis. Some replies were received with reference to the sta-
tions with which the ship was in communication, but no new^s of any
importance was obtained.
Senator Smith. I should like to see the replies, if they were replies
to these messages or replies to the messages picked up by theNavy
Department at their station, which are already in the record and with
which vou are familiar.
Mr. Sammis. I might say that one reply contained the list of sur-
vivors, which I believe was received at tne same time that the White
Star Co. received it. I know we showed it to them and thev
looked it over and thought it was about the same as they already had.
Senator Smith. You say, Mr. Marconi, that arrangements' were
made to let a tugboat put representatives of the New York Ameri-
can, and Mr. Binns, on board the Carpathia. Did you personally
have any arrangement with the New York American of anv kind ?
Mr. Marconi. None whatever, and I did not know anytning of it.
Senator Smith. Had your office any arrangement ?
Mr. Marconi. Apparently, my office had.
Senator Smith. Do you know what that arrangement was ?
Mr. Marconi. No; 1 do not.
Senator Smith. What position does Operator Binns hold with
your company?
Mr. Marconi. I believe he does not hold anv position.
Senator Smith. Do you know what he is dou^g row; I mean what
his vocation is.
Mr. Marconi. I tbi k ho is o^\q:a.r!:o(l in journalistic work.
4< „»^.« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 825
Senator SxMITH. Have you .said all you think you can say to throw
any light upon this inquiry ?
Sir. Marconi. So far as it occurs to me, ves. I should like per-
mission to correct a slight error in the record, made, perhaps, by the
stenographer by reason of my pronunciation, which changes tne sense
of one of mv answers.
At page 1217 of the testimony given on the sixth day, April 25,
at the top of the page, my answer says, that I am consulte'l with
regard to all technical details concerning operators installed on ships
generally. It should read '^conceraiiig apparatus installed on ships
generally. '*
Further down, on the same page, in the same answer, it reads:
For the business details, and for the general management of the company, there is a
managing director or general manager, who attends to all the work of engaging opera-
tors and engaging with shipowners.
That sliould read —
and negotiating with shipowners.
There are slight slips in the record, in addition to that, but they
do not change the sense of the answers and they are more or less
obvious.
Senator Smith. There is no confusion over Mr. Binns, as I under-
stand. He is the same man who was the operator on the Republic
at the time of the Republic disaster ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Is that all ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes; if you will allow me to state, iVill say that I
propose sailing for England to-morrow. I can stay in Washington
until perhaps 2 or 3 this afternoon, but it is very important for my
business that I should be able to go over to England, and therefore I
w^ish to inform you of my intention of doing so.
Senator Smith. I asked for certain information from your com-
pany the other day in New York, when you were on the stand, and
you said you would furnish it.
Mr. Marconi. I have taken steps to obtain it.
Senator Smith. And I may rely on Mr. Bottomley or Mr. Sammis ?
Mr. Griggs. You can rely on me, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Marconi
could not do it anv better than these other gentlemen.
Mr. Marconi. Of course I shall be at your disposal so far as I can
be in England in obtaining anything you desire.
Mr. Griggs. In that connection, Mr. Chairman, you will bear in
mind that these private messages that were received, sent from the
Carpaihiay are protected by law. We are precluded by the law from
disclosing such messages, and there is a penalty provided for tele-
graph operators who disclose them. Whether there is a penalty
against tne wireless company or not I do not know.
Such messages should not be disclosed unless it is necessary. We
can state how many were received and all that.
Senator Smith. I quite agree with you. Governor, that there is a
penalty for disclosing a telegram, but I do not agree that there is any
penalty or any jurisdiction that will hold you responsible for giving
us wireless messages received at sea.
Mr. Griggs. You understand, Mr. Chairman, that the wireless
messages received at sea were received on the Carpathia,
4047&-PT 10—12 2
•826 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Exactly.
Mr. Grigos. She is a foreign ship, in foreign waters, and it is
impossible for us to produce those messages now.
Senator Smith. I understand that.
Mr. Grigos. Nor do I know that we have any compulsory pro-
cess to produce them. They are not under the jurisdiction of the
American company
Senator Smith. I have not asked for any compulsory process on
the Carpathia or its officers; but I have had the voluntary pronuse
of the Marconi Co. that those messages would be produced, and if
they can be, you say you will produce them ?
Mr. Grigos. If the chairman will state now, or subsequent h%
exactly what he wants, so far as the law and circumstances permit
it, if we can do it compulsorily we will; if we can do it diplomatically
we will.
Senator Smith. The committee would like any answers received
by the Marconi Co., or any constituent company, to the messages
that have already been put in evidence. We would like the volume,
and so far as practicable the contents, of any messages sent from
the Carpathia, after the accident, to the officere of the Marconi Co.
We would like any communications received by the Marconi Co.,
or any of its stations, signed by Mr. Ismay, or his code signature,
or by Mr. Franklin or his code signature, and by any other officers
of the White Star Co. or the International Mercantde Marine Co.,
bearing in any way upon the accident which resulted in the sinking
of the jTitomc* Do I make myself clear?
Mr. Griggs. Yes. I beg to say that all service messages, that
is, to the officers of the Marconi Co., will be produced, but they yn)\
have to be collected from these various stations where they have
been received. So far as messages from Mr. Ismay to the White
Star Line and other messages of that kind, which come within the
class of ^* private" are concerned, I beg now to call attention to
the articles of the international convention, which bind the parties
to take all necessary measures for the purpose of insuring the secrecy
of the correspondence and its safe transmission; and as to those
matters the company will have to take into consideration the legality
and propriety oi producing such messages, if they have them.
Senator Smith. I think I understand you ; but I desire the record
to show that the United States Government is not yet a party to the
Berlin convention.
Mr. Griggs. That is a telegraph convention
Senator Smith. This applies to the Berlin convention ?
Mr. Marconi. This article applies to the wireless convention as
well; yes.
Senator Smith. It applies to both ?
Mr. Marconi. Yes.
Senator Smith. I will complete what I was going to say. I desire
the record to show that the United States Government is not yet a
party to the Berlin convention, and, while the treaty has been rati-
fied by the Senate, there has been no exchange of ratifications up to
this time, and consequently the United States is at this time in no
manner bound, nor the jurisdiction of the committee limited, by
that treaty.
That is all, Mr. Marconi, and I thank you for coming here.
(t ^^^ }9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 827
Mr. Marconi. I thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen.
Mr. Griggs. Any messages, if there were any — and that I do not
know — to Mr. Ismay or the White Star Line from the Carpathia,
would have been received at some wireless station and forwarded by
telegraph. Certainlj'' the laws of this country forbid the disclosure
of those voluntarily, as I understand it.
Senator Smith. Do you hold that it would prevent the disclosure
of the entire commumcation, or that part of it which reaches our
jurisdiction when it reaches the shore telegraph office?
Mr. Griggs. When it reaches the wireless office for transmission,
you mean ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Griggs. I say that I would have to take that under advise-
ment. I shall advise the company, as its general counsel, to do
whatever the law will permit to favor the wishes of the committee.
Beyond that I should advise them, if it is contrary to law, that they
could not do it.
Senator Smith. That is all we ask.
Mr. Franklin. I have been authorized by Mr. Ismay to say that
he would be quite willing, if it would facilitate matters, to have any
wireless telegraph company, any other telegraph company, or any
cable company — and you can authorize them — expose either any
message sent or any message received by Mr. Ismay at any time during
the accident or after the accident, and the same statement is made for
the International Mercantile Marine- Co. or the Wliite Star Line and
myself personally; so we open the gates wide, so far as that is con-
cerned.
Mr. Griggs. In view of that statement, I am absolved entirely, I
presume.
Senator Smith. That makes the matter very easy for us, and we
will ask for sucj^ messages as we want or need.
Mr. Griggs. We will give at once to the different stations orders to
send copies of all these messages, and will report them to the com-
mittee as soon as we can collect them. I should imagine you would
like to have them all together and not have them produced in install-
ments.
Senator Smith. We should like to have them as soon as possible.
I desire the record to show the following telegram :
Bremen, April 29, 1912.
Alden Smith,
Chairman Senate Committee Investigating Titanic Dimster, New York:
First advice from Titanic about collision 10.40 evening, New York time, 39° 47' N.,
52® 2V W. Frankfurt took position to Titanic after 30 minutes maximum speed 13
miles total distance 140 miles arrived 9.20 morning New York time.
Hattorf,
Commander Frankfurt.
I would like to have the record show that this position of the
Frankfurt practically agrees with the testimony that has been sub-
mitted to the committee, there being a discrepancy of only about 10
miles in any event in the position here taken.
Mr. Sammis, will you take the stand and be sworn ?
828 '' TITANIC " DISASTER.
TESTIHOHT OF MB. FBEDEBICK M. SAMMIS.
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Will you give your full name and address?
Mr. Sammis. Frederick Minton Sammis; 143 Mount Prospect Ave-
nue, Newark, N. J.
Senator Smith. And your business ?
Mr. Sammis. I am chief engineer of the Marconi Wireless Telegraph
Co. of America.
Senator Smith. State your age, please.
Mr. Sammis. I will have to figure it; it is something I can never
remember. I was born in 1877, anyway.
Senator Smith. You are chief engineer of the Marconi Co. i
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How far does vour jurisdiction extend ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know tfiat I quite understand the question
as Dut.
Senator Smith. How extensive is your jurisdiction ? What is your
authority, and over what territory are you supposed to act ?
Mr. Sammis. With respect to our territory, the American Co. has
jurisdiction over the United States and its possessions, and on Ameri-
can registry ships only. Mv part of the business is to see that the
ships are properly fitted, and tiie land stations are kept in good work-
ing order, and, generally, I have to do with the technical side of the
business, not the traffic; we have a separate manager for that.
Senator Smith. Are you an officer of the British Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or the Marconi Co. in any other country ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you anything to do with Mr. Marconi's per-
sonal arrangements with the Government of Italy ? •
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So that your part of the work is such as you have
just described ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. Where were you when the accident happened to
the Titanicf
Mr. Sammis. In bed, asleep.
Senator Smfth. In New York ?
Mr. Sammis. In Newark.
Senator Smith. When did you first learn of this accident ?
Mr. Sammis. My best recollection is that it was the next morning
when I got into the office. I discovered I had carried the paper in
my hand all the morning, with news of the accident in it, and x had
not noticed it.
Senator Smith. What paper did you have in your hand ?
Mr. Sammis. The New York Times.
Senator Smith. What time did you reach your office ?
Mr. Sammis. I should think it was about half past 9, my usual time.
Senator Smith. You reached your office before you heard of tliis
accident ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir. I may sav I had some very important busi-
ness with a fellow passenger, or I should not have done so.
t< .^,..«**^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTEB. 829
Senator Smith. That does not indicate the indifference of your place
of residence to incidents going on in the outside world, does it ?
Mr. Sammis. Hardly. I think I ought to be allowed to explain
that we were looking tor a trans-Atlantic site, and I had arranged with
one of my men to meet me at imr home that morning and to send him
down to the county clerk's oflace in New Brunswick, and we were
discussing this matter, and I took my paper and put it in my pocket,
and we were still discussing it when we got to the office, and for that
reason I did not open my paper or read it.
Senator Smith. It did not take you very long after you arrived at
your office to discover something nad happened in the world, did it ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir; it did not.
Senator Smith. What did you find there ?
Mr. Sammis. I was told the Titanic had struck an iceberg, I be-
lieve. I heard of the accident by some means or other, I think
probably from Mr. Bottomley. Of course, the office was all astir with
it as soon as I got in.
Senator Smith. Did you find many people there looking for in-
formation ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not think there were many people there that
morning at that time.
Senator Smith. Did you remain at the office during the day ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not think I left it very much for the next five
days.
Senator Smith. Up to the time of the arrival of the Oarpathiaf
Mr. Sammis. Yes. I did go home, but not any longer than I felt
absolutely necessary.
Senator Smith, while you were at the office were you bestirring
yourself about the business of the company ?
Mr. Sammis. Disturbing myself?
Senator Smith. Bestirring yourself.
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir; always; normally so.
Senator Smith. Did you have occasion to send any message
yourself to the Carpataiaf
Mr. Sammis. Not that I remember. Some of the messages which
Mr. Marconi has already offered in evidence, I think, were sent at
my request and by my judgment, together with that of Mr. Bot-
tomley. I knew they were sent.
Senator Smith. I will come right to the point and ask you whether
the following message, which was intercepted by the cnief wireless
operator, J. R. Simpson, cliief electrician United States Navy, is
f amiUar to you :
8.30 p. M.
To Marconi officer^ Carpathia and Titanic:
Arranged for your exclusive story for dollars in four figures. Mr. Marconi agreeing.
Say nothing until you see me. Where are you now?
J. M. Sammis, Opr. C.
Mr. Sammis. I only know about that exact message from what I
have read in the newspapers.
If you will allow me, I will describe this unpleasant business, be-
cause it is unpleasant, as it has brought upon me a country-wide pub-
licity that I little desire, and has pomted the finger of scorn at me by
my neighbors, simply because in tneir estimation, either intentionally
or otherwise, the date and time of these messages, when they were
830 TITANIC DISASTER.
first published, at any rate, were not disclosed. In the second place
because it has not been stated, I believe, thus far, that at 8.30 the
ship was either across the end of her pier or nearly so.
1 sat in my office at 8.10 on that night and was told by the operating
department that the ship had passed the Narrows, and the Seagate
Station itself is at the Narrows, New York Harbor.
It is not my desire to throw onto anybody else any responsibility
for the sense Jot this message. Mr. Marconi did agree that the boy?»
when they got ashore, should be allowed to sell the report of their
personal experiences, which numerous other people on board the ship
did. In these days, when corporations are counted as not caring
very much about their employees or what happens to them, or what
they get, it seemed to me tfiat the men who had been responsible
mainly and chieflv for saving 700 lives ought in some way to be recog-
nized substantially.
It was not I who originated this scheme or this arrangement at aU.
The arrangement was made, however, and the information was tele-
phoned to Seagate Station, which I sajr is at the Narrows, New" York,
to explain to these boys. In telephoning that I told them, ''I know
the boys are exhausted, but give them this news; maybe it will spur
them on and make them feel better." I remember definitely temng
them that.
Senator Smith. With whom were you talking at that time ?
Mr. Sammis. To Mr. Davidson, the man temporarily^ in charge of
Seagate station. He is not regularly in our employ, but was sent there
because he was an expert operator and one or the best nten we have
ever had. But he was not regularly under our control. He was sent
there, and we made use of his services, and he handled the wireless
entirely. I have a statement from him, and he made an affidavit,
that messages about which so much noise has been made were of his
own construction, and that he realises, as we all do, that thev were
not gems of English literature, but they were, on the spur of tne mo-
ment, instructions to the men, carrying out and explaimng to them the
arrangements which had been made.
Senator Smith. We are not passing upon the literary character of
these productions.
Mr. Sammis. I do not think I ought to be
Senator Smith (interposing). And the work of digging into the
story you are telling nas not been entirely pleasant to me. But
these messages were picked up and transmitted to me b}' the Secre-
tary of the Savy, and they bear your signature, and I would like to
know whether or not you are responsible for that injunction of secrecy
to the operators of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Sammis. There was no injunction of secrecy whatsoever, except
with respect to their actions after they got ashore.
Senator Smith. I will read one. "Seagate to Carpathia, 8.12." Do
you know what time the Carpathia passed auarantme ?
Mr. Sammis. I was told that night that she passed the Batterv at
8.10. I have not verified that. She was certaiilly very close,
however.
Senator Smith. As a matter of fact, she did not land until 9.30?
Mr. Sammis. You mean the passengers did not land ?
Senator Smith. No; I mean the boat was not made fast to the
Cunard Dock until 9.30. Am I right, Mr. Franklin?
<t -,.„,» ^,»^ ff
TITAi^IC DISASTER. 831
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Sammis. I should say that half an hour, or 45 minutes, possibly,
would be consumed in coming from the Battery up to the pier, in the
slow way they usually go.
Senator Smith. Here is a telegram which was intercepted by the
Xavy Department.
Mr. Sammis. May I interrupt to say that the one you have already
quoted is quite evidently erroneously copied. The initial, you may
note, is not correct. The words after the signature have absolutely
no meaning to me. I say those are self-evident facts to anybody. I
did not know what these messages contained until I read them in the
paper.
Senator Smith. I will proceed:
Seagate to Carpatkia: 8.12 P. M.
Say, old man, Marconi Co. taking good care of vou. Keep your mouth shut and
hold your story. It is fixed for you so you will get big money. Do your best to clear.
Do you know anything about that message ?
Mr. Sammis. Only what I have already stated. I read it in the
paper.
Senator Smith. And you disavow all responsibility for it ?
Mr. Sammis. Xo; I clo not. I telephoned the information to Sea-
gate— I have already stated that — that such an arrangement had been
made with reference to the boys' stories after they got ashore. It is
quite evident that in the vernacular of the wireless men the last few
words which vou have just Quoted were sent in response to my injunc-
tion that pernaps this would spruce the boys up a little bit, and make
them feel nappy, and they would clear their traflic. That is what is
meant by the sentence: '*Do your best to clear.*' In other words,
**Get your messages off, all you have, hurriedly.''
Senator Smith. He could not have been at the dock at that time, or
that could have been sent to him personally.
Mr. Sammis. I understand that the man was found telegraphing
after he was tied up to the pier, absolutely unconscious of the fact
that he had arrived there.
Senator Smith. Which operator ?
Mr. Sammis. Mr. McBride.
Senator Smith. But Cottam, the regular operator of the Carpathian
left the ship immediately when she arrived, did he not ?
Mr. Sammis. I understand so; yes.
Senator Smith. Did he do that in obedience to your request to meet
you at the Strand Hotel?
Mr. Sammis. He probably did; yes.
Senator Smith. Why did you want him to meet you ?
Mr. Sammis. Simply so that he could get in touch with the New
York Times reporter, with whom the arrangement had been made,
and give him the story.
Senator Smith. Then we may presume the arrangement he made
with the Times and carried out was with your consent ?
Mr. Sammis. With the consent of the company, Mr. Marconi, and
Mr. Bottomley, as well. I simply passed along the arrangement
which had been made.
Senator Smith. But with your consent ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes. I had not very much to say. He did not need
my consent.
832 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. With your concurrence ?
Mr. Sammis. With my approval; yes, sir. My unofficial approval.
Senator Smith. . Did ne meet you at the Strand Hotel, or was he to
meet you ?
Mr. Sammis. No.
Senator Smith. Were you there ?
Mr. Sammis. I was at the Strand Hotel; yes. That was the head-
quarters of the New York Times.
Senator Smith. Five hundred and two West Fourteenth Street ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. \\Tiom did you go there to meet — ^Mr. Cottam ?
Mr. Sammis. I went there to meet the operators; yes.
Senator Smith. To meet Mr. Cottam ?
Mr. Sammis. Not Mr. Cottam any more than Mr. Bride, particu-
larly, but to meet both of them.
Senator Smith. Did you go to the side of the Carpathia at all when
she docked ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. At what time ?
Mr. Sammis. I have not the least idea. It took me 45 minutes to
get across the street. At the time I got to the Carpathia I lost all
sense of time. I should say, roughly, it might have been a couple of
hours after she had docked.
Senator Smith. Did you find Mr. Bride there ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. But had you seen Mr. Cottam in the meantime ?
Mr. Sammis. No.
Senator Smith. Did you go to the Cunard Dock with Mr. Marconi ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was that the first time he had been there that
evening ?
Mr. Sammis. I assume so.
Senator Smith. Was he with you at the Strand Hotel ?
Mr. Sammis. No.
Senator Smith. Was anybody with you ?
Mr. Sammis. You could not be in the Strand Hotel that night
without having somebody with you. There were Times men and all
the other newspaper men.
Senator Smith. Yes; but who went with you to the Strand Hotel ?
Mr. Sammis. Nobody.
Senator Smith. Who left the Strand Hotel with you ?
Mr. Sammis. One of the Times men; I have forgotton his name.
Senator Smith. How much was Mr. Cottam, the operator on the
Carpathia J to get for that story ?
Mr. Sammis. The Times agreed to pay $1,000 for the two stories.
I do not know how they were going to divide it; I did not interest
myself in it.
Senator Smith. For his and Cottam^s story of the loss of the
Titanic?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. With whom was that arrangement made ?
Mr. Sammis. With the Nt^w York Times.
Senator Smith. I know; but who made it in behalf of these boys!
%T. Sammis. You mean what representative of the Times ?
<< . ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 833
Senator Smith. No; who made the arrangement on behalf of the
company ?
Mr. Sammis. Well, everybody had sometliing to do with it. I had
something to do with it; Mr. Bottomley had something to do with it;
it was a general conversation carried on by the New York Times
office and our office and Mr. Bottomley's house.
Senator Smith. Was the contract on the part of the operators
completed ? Did they give their stories ?
Mr. Sammis. I thiiJk they did.
Senator Smith. Both to the same paper ?
Mr. Sammis. I think so.
Senator Smith. Did they receive their money ?
Mr. Sammis. I understand they did, and more besides.
Senator Smith. How much more ?
Mr. Sammis. I understood they got $250 more apiece than was
promised them.
Senator Smith. That is, they got $750 apiece ?
Mr. Sammis. That is my rough recollection; I did not see the money
or handle it, and do not wish to. That is hearsay.
Senator Smith. In order that we may clear this up as we go along,
were you to have any part in this yourself ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. Was Mr. Bottomley to have any part in it ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. And you have had no part in it ?
Mr. Sammis. No.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam says he has not yet received his money.
Mr. Sammis. Perhaps that is Mr. Cottam's fault. Perhaps he has
not been accessible.
Senator Smith. Is the money being held for him by anybody, to
your knowledge ?
Mr. Sammis. I presume, if anybody were holding it, it would be
the Times.
Senator Smith. Nobody else ?
Mr. Sammis. I understood Mr. Cottam had received his money.
Senator Smith. He had not when he was on the stand a day or
two ago.
Mr. Sammis. I understand that he has since.
Senator Smith. Were these payments made through yourself or
anv other officer of the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Sammis. I have already stated that I did not see the money,
did not expect to, and did not wish to.
Senator Smith. Do you mean that you did not see a check or an
envelope containing the money ?
Mr. Sammis. I have not taken part in the transaction one iota, one
way or the other.
Senator Smfth. Let us clear tliis up as we go along. I think it is
a most distasteful matter to you, as it is to the committee, and I
think to the public.
Mr. Sammis. I have not done anything I am ashamed of, and if I
cAn clear my record, that the newspapers have impugned, I want to
do it,- and I am sure you want to help me.
Senator Smith. Have you done anything in this matter, about
which we have just been speaking, that you are very proud of?
834 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Sammis. I have not done anytliing I am ashamed of.
Senator Smith. I did not ask you that. I want to know whether
you are proud of it ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes; I am proud of the fact tliat, being an employer
of labor, and being the superior of poorly paid men, or mediumly paid
men — men who do not see very much of this world's goods — I will
do them a good turn honestly if I can, and that I consider I have
done. I know of no law that can forbid a man selling his personal
experience, after he comes ashore, and we have no rule by which we
could prevent them from doing it.
Senator Smith. Then am I to understand from what you say that,
so far as your opinion goes, this practice to which I am calling atten-
tion will be continued ?
Mr. Sammis. I should consider it very dangerous indeed — and I
had intended to bring it to your attention — to forbid them, by some
hard and fast rule, which you have indicated, along that line, because
the result would be that you would obtain the very results you now
have. It would seem only reasonable that if no recognition whatso-
ever, in standing or financially, should be made of the efforts of these
men to get the news off the ships, they would not stir themselves
very much to do it. I believe it could be regulated. I believe an
error was made. I believe it would have been better to have sent
this news to the Associated Press and let them settle with the boys,
if they liked. The news then would have had more general distribu-
tion, and there would not have been any sore toes.
Senator Smith. I have not seen any sore toes, and I do not know
of anybody who is complaining of any, myself. But do you not
think it would have been better to communicate this intelligence to
your office, in answer to the numerous inquiries made by Mr. Mar-
coni, from the time of the accident until the arrival of the Carpathia,
and then disseminate it to the public, that they might be relieved of
the anxiety under which they were suffering ?
Mr. Sammis. With all due deference to the question, my judgment
would not be that that w^as the best course to pursue, for tms reason,
that the international telegraph convention has already placed itself
on record as putting news dispatches last in the list; ship service tele-
grams first, paid passenger telegrams second, and then press mes-
sages.
Senator Smith. How general is this custom of receiving and ac-
cepting money for exclusive stories of sea disasters?
Mr. Sammis. I should say it was quite general. I perused the
copies of messages from the shore stations. I saw messages from
{)ractically every paper in New York City asking practically every-
)ody, from the captain down to the survivore, for exclusive stories.
Whether they got them or not I am unable to say, except that I did
see in the New York World, on the day after the Carpathia arrived,
that they had published an exclusive story two hours and a half before
the New York Times had theirs on the street.
Senator Smith. The committee are not very much concerned with
that.
Mr. Sammis. It demonstrated that there were not exclusive stories.
Senator Smith. If this custom aV)out which we are talking^ and
which was followed by Binns, the operator in the Republic disaster
Mr. Sammis. But Binns sent his wireless messages from the ship.
ft »,».«,*^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 835
Senator Smith. All right; I do not care where they came from.
(Continuing.) If this custom, which was followed by Binns, and
which you say is quite general among wireless operators
Mr. Sammis (interrupting). No; pardon me, I did not say quite
general among wireless operators; I said it was quite general on the
part of papers to endeavor to secure exclusive stories.
Senator Smith. Is it a recognized standard of ethics among
operators ?
Mr. Sammis. No; absolutely not.
Senator Smith. Injunctions of secrecy, such as these messages indi-
cate, and the hope of private reward, such as you say is often the
case — '■ —
Mr. Sammis. I do not remember of having made such a state-
ment
Senator Smith. Well, such as you do not regard
Mr. Sammis. As dishonorable f
Senator Smith. As dishonorable. I will ask the stenographer to
read the beginning of my question.
The stenographer reaa as follows :
Injunctions of secrecy, such as these messages indicate, and the hope of private
reward, such as you say is often the case
Senator Smith (continuing). Mieht cut some figure in the ability
of the public, and even owners of the ship, and the people vitally
affected, to obtain the news, might they not, if the custom be recog-
nized among operators ?
Mr. Sammis. I should say absoluteljr they would have nothing to
do with it. At such times, and at all times, our operator on the sliip
has his messages censored by the captain. It is a part of our contract
that the captain shall censor messages. The operators are there on
board in the same manner that any other officer is on board, and they
hold the position of junior officer. The captain would have nothing
whatever to do, and would have had nothing to do in this case, except
file the message, tell the man to send it, and it would have gone to
whomever it was addressed, and at any time, had it been filed.
The matter has been thrown over onto Mr. Bride and Mr. Cottam, who
did the best they knew how. They followed their rules blindly and
were worked up. The responsibility, I must say, if there is respon-
sibility existing, was on the part of the captain, ii he realized that the
people were waiting for news; and if he did not realize it, why should
our men have realized it ? He should have filed a brief account, and
the captain had such a message requesting such an account from the
White Star Line.
Senator Smith. You heard Mr. Marconi say a few minutes ago that
he did not regard it as a desirable practice and that he thought it
ought not to obtain.
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you disagree with him ?
Mr. Sammis. Not altogether. I would say that you would have to
be very careful what rules you might make or you would defeat the
purpose of the rule. I think that is self-evident.
Senator Smith. Do you fix the wages of these operators ?
Mr. Sammis. Of which operators ?
Senator Smith. The wireless operators of your company.
836 TITANIO DISASTEB.
Mr. Sammis. I have only jurisdiction over operators on American
ships, of which there are four.
Senator Smith. Do you fix their wages ?
Mr. Sammis. I have something to do with it. I m^e recommen-
dations.
Senator Smith. Wliat are the ships to which you refer ?
Mr. Sammis. The SL Paul, the St Louis, the Philadelphia^ and the
New York,
Senator Smith. How many operators are there on each ship ?
Mr. Sammis. One.
Senator Smith. How much do they receive in wages ?
Mr. Sammis. $45 a month.
Senator Smith. And board in addition ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes. It is an American scale of pay on an American
ship and not an English jscale of pay on an Engliish ship.
Senator Smith. Taeve is a difference ?
Mr. Sammis. Money goes twice as far on the other side as it does
here.
Senator Smith. How much did Cottam receive ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Or Bride ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know.
Senator Smith. What is the EngUsh scale of wages for wireless
operators ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know. I should say it is considerably less
than our scale of wages here.
Senator Smith. Suppose it were £4 a month
Mr. Sammis. I should say that is equal to $45 here.
Senator Smith. I did not ask you that. I asked you if it was
£4
Mr. Sammis. You said, ^ ^Suppose it was £4 ''-
Senator Smith. I said this: Suppose the wages were £4 a month;
that would be $20. Would you regard that as a good wage ?
Mr. Sammis. I should regard it as equivalent to the American scale
of pay of $40.
Senator Smith. Then you would regard it as a fair wage ?
Mr. Sammis. Not so good a wage as I should like to see them get.
Senator Smith. You have fixed the wages here, and you say that is
equivalent to the wage here.
Mr. Sammis. No; with all respect, we do not fix the wages here.
Senator Smith. What part do you have in it ?
Mr. Sammis. We are governed by the considerations that control
any other commercial company; we have to show a balance between
that which we receive and that which we spend.
Senator Smith. You are trying to make a profit, in other words ?
Mr. Sammis. We are trying to make both ends meet. If that were
not the case we might pay more money.
Senator Smith. You said with some pride that you paid the Ameri-
can operators on the St. Paul and these other ships $45 a month. Now
you say that $45 a month to the St. Paul operator would be about the
equivalent of $20 a month to the operator on the Carpaihiat
Mr. Sammis. I am not aware that I exhibited any pride as to the
$45 a month wage.
Senator Smith. You have exhibited by your testimony considerable
solicitude concerning the rewards of labor.
if ,^...^«^ 99
TITANIC DISASTER. 837
Mr. Sammis. Yes; I still believe in people getting paid as much as
their employers can afford to pay them.
Senator Smith. Do jou think you are paying the wireless opera-
tors on the Philadelphia and St. Paul enough ?
Mr. Sammis. We have no difficulty in getting good men at that
price.
Senator Smith. You do not contemplate any raise in wages ?
Mr. Sammis. If the steamship people will pay more for the service;
yes, by all means.
Senator Smith. I did not ask you that. I asked you if you con-
template any increased scale of wages.
Mr. Sammis. That is the only thing that could govern my contem-
plation of increased wages — increased returns.
Senator Smith. I want your viewpoint. You say that $20 a
month paid Bride and Cottam, on the English scale or wages, is the
equivalent of $45 a month on the St. PauTf
Mr. Sammis. I should say it would be the equivatent of $40 in
America. I have never been in England.
Senator Smith. I do not ask you that. That is simply a voluntary
statement that takes up unnecessary space on the record.
Mr. Sammis. I am sorry
Senator Smith. Just answer this, please: It is the equivalent of $40
a month in America, is it ?
Mr. Sammis. I have been led to believe that from hearsay, from
feople who have been on the other side and who have lived in England;
have not Uved there.
Senator Smith. Then, do you regard that as a fair wage ?
Mr. Sammis. What do you mean by fair ?
Senator Smith. Just.
Mr. Sammis. That does not help me much.
Senator Smith. Appropriate.
Mr. Sammis. It is all we can afford to pay.
Senator Smith. Exactly. Then you are paying all that you can
afford?
Mr. Sammis. Exactly; and showing a loss on the ships I have
mentioned.
Senator Smith. But you have no difficulty in getting operators ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the British ships have any
difficulty in getting operators ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not think they have. I never heard that they
have any.
Senator Smith. I am coming back to the point where you say it is
absolutely essential that these operators be given the right to sell
exclusive stories of happenings at sea, in order that their wage may
be brought to a desirable point
Mr. Sammis. I made no such statement.
Senator Smith. Well, you approximated it.
Afr. Sammis. I think not. I said you would have to be very careful
of the rules you might make against this. I am in agreement with
Mr. Marconi that it is undesirable that the thing should work out as
it has done, but you have to be very careful what rules you may lay
down, or the men would not send any news at all.
Senator Smith. They would mutiny ?
(< .-«.».. «^,« 9 9
838 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Sammis. In a polite way, I do not think they would mutiny; no.
Senator Smith. Have you nad any difficulty on that point ?
Mr. Sammis. Never.
Senator Smith. Why should you expect it ?
Mr. Sammis. I should expect a man to do that for which he would
be commended, that for which he would receive recognition. I should
say that if you forbade him receiving such compensation or return, he
would not be apt to spur himself to write up a story of his own experi-
ences for the sake of the public.
Senator Smith. Then you think the public might lose the benefit
of his experience if he were not permitted to sell it exclusively ?
Mr. Sammis. I take it that your idea is that they should send off
news messages from the ship.
Senator Smith. No, sir; I am not talking about any voluntary
action on the part of the wireless operator.
Mr. Sammis. Then I misunderstood you.
Senator Smith. I am talking about replies to messages sent by Mr.
Marconi, sent by Mr. Franlkin, sent by people representing those who
had been lost in this wreck; and I am asking you whethbr or not this
custom or habit or practice, of which you do not seem to wholly dis-
approve, of seUing the experiences of operators at sea in disasters of
that kind, had anything to do with the laUure to get that information
here promptly ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely nothing whatever. I should say that the
boys obeyed their rules, the rules of conscience and the rules of the
international telegraph convention, which they were forced to do.
They followed them bfindly. I believe I should have done the same
in their place.
Senator Smith. I will let tliis personal eulogy stand for itself and
ask you how you happened to go to the Strand Hotel with the Times
representative that mght ?
Mr. Sammis. Simply to get him in touch with the men when they
came off the ship.
Senator Smith. And to see that this news was obtained by the
New York Times ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. You have spoken of rewarding the service of these
operators. Mr. Bride is here, and at the risk of saying something
that I am not called upon to say, I want to observe that Mr. Bride
was so loyal to the Titanic and so obedient to its commander and so
courageous in its distress, that he refused to leave the Titanic in a
lifeboat, and stayed on the ship until one minute before she sank,
because the captain had not given him permission to leave; and he
remained at his apparatus all that time ticking oJ the fate of that
ship. I want to know whether it would not be more creditable to you
ana to your company to encourage that kind of gallantry and heroism
and fidelity by leavmg the question of reward for such service to the
pubUc, rather than to seal his lips with an injunction of secrecy, so
that he might receive a pittance from some pnvate source t
Mr. Sammis. We did not seal his lips. We provided the means for
unsealing them.
Senator Smith. Did you tell him to shut his mouth ?
Mr. Sammis. I did not.
(( -,»-..*^,,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 839
Senator Smith. Did you tell him to agree to nothing until he saw
you?
Mr. Sammis. Not in those words. I have told you I
Senator Smith (interposing). Answer me, now. Did you tell him
to say nothing until he saw you ?
Mr. Sammis. I gave him the information that I have already
stated — that the Times wanted him to tell the story of his own per-
sonal experiences after he got ashore.
Senator Smith. Did you tell him in any wireless message the New
York Times wanted this story ?
Mr. Sammis. No.
Senator Smith. Did you tell him to "say nothing until you see me."
Mr. Sammis. I gave the information which probably was respon-
sible for that message; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In otlier words, you put an injunction on him ?
Mr. Sammis. No • I did not.
Senator Smith, l ou expected him to disregard it ?
Mr. Sammis. He did exactly what I told him to do. There was no
injunction on him whatever. He could not possibly have sent a
message, had I desired it or had anybody desired it, in the time
available before he got to the dock. It was absurd to think such a
thing would be possible.
Senator Smith. But the Navy Department has picked up a message
that was sent 33 minutes after that.
Mr. Sammis. That is not a news dispatch of 1,000 or 1,500 words.
Senator Smith. I do not like your disposition to avoid my direct
questions. I will repeat my last question, and I wish you to be
careful with your answer.
I spoke to you a moment ago about a message at 8.12 that night,
before the Carpathia had passed quarantine.
Mr. Sammis. Has that been determined, absolutely ?
Senator Smith. I have in the record the exact moment the vessel
passed quarantine.
Mr. Sammis. I have been informed by the marine department of one
of the telegraph companies that she passed the Battery at 8.10.
Senator Smith. You can not swear to anything about it ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. So I will not take your testimony on that point.
You say the injunction you put upon this operator, '*Say nothing
until you see me. Have arranged tor your exclusive story for dol-
lars in four figures,'* did not operate to deprive the public of any
information?
Mr. Sammis. I say absolutely not.
Senator Smith. And yet, in the next breath, you say that he obeyed
your injunction ?
Mr. Sammis. Exactly.
Senator Smith. Tlien I am to infer that there was no information
to impart ?
Mr. Sammis. That would be my understanding of it. May I
ask
Senator Smith (interposing). No; you may answer me, then I will
allow you to explain as long as you want to; but I want an answer
to my question.
Mr. Sammis. Repeat the question, please.
840 TITANIC DISASTER.
The stenographer read the question, as follows:
Then I am to infer that there waa no information to impart?
Mr. Sammis. I presume that there was.
Senator Smith. That was to be imparted exclusively to the New
York Times by your arrangement ?
Mr. Sammis. After the man had gotten ashore and had discharged
his duty.
Senator Smith. That would be within an hour from the time the
injunction was issued ?
Mr. Sammis. May I ask, in all deference, if you could say to me
what I am quite at sea on in this matter? Wliat would have been
the course for him to pursue ? Would you have recommended that
at such a time he should have sent broadcast the news of his experi-
ences from the ship, or that he should have waited until he got asiiore
and was then surrounded by newspaper representatives, or should
have called for the newspaper representatives to hear him tell his
story ? I am quite at sea, honestly and frankly, to know what course
you would have had him pursue.
Senator Smith. I shall not reveal my purpose. I am not testify-
ing. You are under oath.
I am going back to that last question. Read it, Mr. Reporter.
The stenographer again read the question referred to, as follows:
Then I am to infer that there was no information to impart?
Mr. Sammis. Yes; of his personal experiences.
Senator Smith. Why was this $750 paid to him ?
Mr. Sammis. For his personal experiences.
Senator Smith. Then he did have information to impart ?
Mr. Sammis. I have said that he did.
Senator Smith. Who is ^'Opr. C"?
Mr. Sammis. I have not the slightest idea what the words mean.
It may possibly mean ^'Operator in charge," but I am not sure.
Senator Smith. Do you sign your name '* J. M. Sammis" ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you sign it ?
Mr. Sammis. Frederick Si.
Senator Smith. F. M. ?
Mr. Sammis. No; notF. M. I sign it *' Frederick M."
Senator Smith. In order that there may be no error about the
authenticity of this wireless message, I show you the original, and ask
if that is your name, and if that is the way you sign it ?
Mr. Sammis. That is not an original.
Senator Smith. We so regard it.
Mr. Sammis. I never wrote a message of that kind.
Senator Smith. Is that your name and the way you si^ it ?
Mr. Sammis. **F. M. Sammis?" ^'Frederick M. Sammis," usua%.
Senator Smith. You say you never sent a message of that kind 'i
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you admit sending one of this kind with Mr.
Marconi's consent added to it, the one I have been talking about.
Mr. Sammis. Will you read it again, please, or have it read ?
Senator Smffh.
8.30 p. m. Marconi officer Carpathia and Titanic. Arrange for your exclusive story
for dollars in four figures, Mr. Marconi agreeing. Say nothing until you see me.
Where are you now? J. M. Sammis.
t* «.»..«.^». "
TITANIO mSASISB. 841
Mr. Sammis. I say I never dictated that message. It is simply in
response to telephone advice to our man at Seagate, which is located
at Quarantine, nearly, carrying out the agreement which had been
maue for him to tell iiis story after he got ashore.
Senator Smith. With wliich you were perfectly familiar?
Mr. Sammis. You mean the arrangement i
Senator SMrrn. Yes.
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. And which met your approval ?
Mr. Sammis. At the time; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And does vet ?
Mr. Saioiis. Not in view of all that has been made of it; I tliink
not. I should much prefer to let the men make their own arrange-
ments. I think my good intentions have brought upon me a great
deal of trouble.
Senator Smith. ^\ ho signed Mr. Marconi's name, if jou know, to
the message of 9.33 p. m. from Seagate to the CarpcUhia:
Personal to operator, Carpathia. Meet Mr. Marconi and Sammis at Strand Hotel,
502 West Fourteenth Street. Keep your mouth shut. (Sig.) Mr. Marconi.
Who sent that?
Mr. Sammis. I do not believe any sucli message was ever sent or
signed with Mr. Marconi^s name. It may possibly have been signed
'*Xlarconi Co.'' The man may have made it that way, but I doubt
very much whether he signed Mr. Marconi's name.
Senator Smith. Wlio would sign it that way?
Mr. Sammis. The same man I have mentioned.
Senator Smith. The man you talked with at Seagate?
Mr. Sammis. Probably. The man has already made a statement
that he is willing to stand sponsor for the particular form the message
took.
Senator Smith. For the language?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith, That is, you are not responsible for the literary
character of the production, but you are quite in harmony with its
purpose ?
Xlr. Sammis. I never heard it that way myself.
Senator Smith. You are quite in harmony with its purpose?
Mr. Sammis. I was in harmony with its purpose at the time;
yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I dishke very much to be so persistent about
this, and I would not be so persistent except for the determination
to break up that practice which is vicious, and which your companjr
should frown upon, and which I am very glad to see Mr. Marconi
does frown upon.
Mr. Sammis. I quite agree with him, and I have simply stated
we shall have to be careful how it is done.
Senator Smith. In order not to oflTend the operators who have
grown up with the custom ?
Mr. Sammis. No; not that at all. If you taken an entirely new
man and put him on, and if you enioin him against doirg a thing
for one reason, and ho knows he will not get any pay for doing it
for another reason, 1 should say the chances are he would not do it-
Senator Smith. And if his wages were insufficient?
40475— PT 10—12 3
842 TITANIC disasteb;
Mr. Sammis. Xo; I do not think that would enter into it greatly.
Senator Smith. The wage does not enter into the matter at aU ?
Mr. Sammis. It would not seem to me it would in such a case.
Senator Smith. I mean if you tell a man he must not write his
story to a magazine, for instance, that it is against the rules of the
company, he would not be apt to send that news off by wireless, or
pubush it at all, would he?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith, The wage does not enter into it ?
Mr. Sammis. I should not think it would in that case, sir.
Senator Smith. All you have said voluntarily about your solioi-
tilde for the operators and laborers of your company does not have
very much application in this case.
Mr. Sammis. That was my sole reason for doing it in this case;
that and only that.
Senator Smith. Where is the Strand Hotel with reference to the
docks of the Cunard Co. ?
Mr. Sammis. Across the way.
Senator Smith. You remained at the Strand Hotel nearly two
hours after the Carpathin landed ?
Mr. Sammis. No; I did not. I was in the Strand Hotel 10 minutes
or 15 minutes, sir.
Senator Smith. When Mr. Cottam, your operator on the Car/xi'
thiay got this message, he considered it his business to leave the (ar-
pathia immediately and go to the Strand Hotel ?
Mr. Sammis. He did not find me there if he did.
Senator Smith. He says he looked for you, but he did not see you.
That was because vou clid not arrive there until about two hours
after the Carpathia landed 'i
Mr. Sammis. That is roughly it. My idea of time is very hazy.
Senator Smith. You were accompanied by no one?
Mr. Sammis. I started from the office with no one, but ran into one
of our office boys who was also going up. He was the only one who
accompanied me.
Senator Smith. When you arrived at the Strand Hotel you met
the Times reporter ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And, together, did you find Cottam?
Mr. Sammis. No; 1 did not see Cottam that night at all, nor the
next day.
Senator Smith. Did you find Bride ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes; I went on the steamer and saw Bride.
Senator Smith. Did the Times man go on with you ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. Through your courtesy ?
Mr. Sammis. No; I went on through his courtesy, because I never
could have gotten on the ship if it had not been for him. They were
letting no news peoj)le on the ship at the time, if they knew it.
Senator Smith. They were not letting any newspaper men on the
ship at that time, were tliey ?
Mr. Sammis. No; not if they knew it. I am afraid my guide let
them think he was not a newspaper man.
Senator Smith. You gave them to understand tou were a Marconi
man, did you not i
i( . >}
TITANIC DISASTEB. 848
Mr. Sammis. Exactly. That did not take me through, though.
Mr. Marconi was with me.
Senator Smith. And you both got through ?
Mr. Sammis. After many trials and tribulations; yes, sir. I think
it took over an hour to get on the ship.
Senator Smith. After you started ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you did not start until an hour after it had
arrived?
Mr. Sammis. I should dislike to be quoted as saying the exact
time, because I am very uncertain about it. The passengers, I think,
were pretty well all on before we got on.
Senator Smith. Was the fact that the Times man had not vet met
you the reason why jou did not go aboard the Carpathia earlier ?
Mr Sammis. No; it was absolutely impossible to get on the Car-
pathia; to get through the police lines. It took me 45 minutes to
get across the street. I could not find a poUceman who would let
nie across.
Senator Smith. I do not know that I have cleared up completely,
and if I have not I want to do so, the question of whether the Times
made this arrangement through you ?
Mr. Sammis. rart of it; 3'es, sir.
Senator Smith. And the amounts that were to be paid were agreed
upon with you ?
Mr. Sammis. And Mr. Bottomley and Mr. Marconi, I think. I do
not know whether Mr. Marconi knew the amount or not, but Mr.
Marconi agreed.
Senator Smith. He said he did not know, and we are going to
accept his word for it.
Mr. Sammis. He did give his permission that the boys should sell
their stories.
Senator Smith. He said that?
Mr. Sammis. Yes.
Senator Smith. That is, he said he made no objection?
Mr. Sammis. No; I felt that he was my superior and perhaps his
judgment was better than mine, and I simply carried out the arrange-
ment which eventuated.
Senator Smith. Let us see about that. Mr. Marconi assumes no
responsibility for that contract with the Times.
Mr. Sammis. I believe he referred it to Mr. Bottomley; that is my
recollection.
Senator Smith. And brought no pressure to bear on you to perfect
it, or carry it through ?
Mr. Sammis. Except giving his consent.
Senator Smith. You asked him if you could do that, and he said
he had no objections ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. That is substantially his testimony.
Mr. Sammis. The Times called me up and wanted to know whether
they could have the story, and my recollection is I said if there were
no objections on the part of the management; that I thought the
boys ought to get something for it. I knew that Mr. Bottomley knew
of the arrangement and that Mr. Marconi knew of it, and I assumed—
naturally, I think — that if they did not know of any reason why it
should not be done I should not stand in its way.
844 TITANIC DIBASOTJR.
Senator Smith. I want to ask you whether, after you reached your
office on Monday morning between 8 and 9 o'clock, any message was
received, to your knowledge, from the Carpaihiaj saying that the
Titanic had sunk and the lives of more than half the persons on
board had been lost ?
Mr. Sammis. I did not see such a message, and I am quite positive
that no such message was received.
Senator Smith. Did you hear of such a message ?
Mr. Sammis. I, of course, read it in the papers and the reports; but
I have no knowledge of any such message.
Senator Smith. Have you any idea of a message ^oing from the
wireless office of the Marconi Co. in reply to it, saying, "Kill this
message" ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely not.
Senator Smith. Has anvbody called your attention to it?
Mr. Sammis. No; they have not. I have not heard such a thing
mentioned before.
Senator Smith. I do not think it has been mentioned before; but
you want to deny it, do vou ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely, so far as concerns anything I have had
to do with.
Senator Smith. Co ^''ou know of any message to any of your coast
or sea stations, on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, di-
recting that any message previously sent to your office was to be
killed ?
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely not. I think I can say without fear of
contradiction that no such message was sent or considered.
Senator Smith. Have you over used any such term in wireless
telegraphy ?
MT. Sammis. Never.
Senator Smith. Have you ever tried to smother a message at its
source by the use of any other language, cipher or otherwise ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how the Chester or the SdUm are
equipped ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know the system they employ in receiving
or sending messages?
Mr. Sammis. I do not.
Senator Smith. Were you in conference with Mr. Franklin, of the
White Star Line, on Monday?
Mr. Sammis. No. I am not sure that I know the gentleman.
Senator Smith. There he sits [indicating Mr. FranUin]. Just look
at him and sec if you know him. Do you know him ?
Mr. Sammis. I never met him before.
Senator Smith. Were you in conference with any other officer of
the White Star Line on Monday ?
Mr. Sammis. I believe we talked with them over the telephone.
Senator Smith. Were you at the White Star offices on Monday ?
Mr. Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or on Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday?
Mr, Sammis. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was any officer of the White Star Line at your
office on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday ?
it «— .«,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 845
Mr. Sammis. I think aot. I did not dee them if they were.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, of any
injunction put upon your operators silencing all communication
between stations at sea or on land, except Wellsfleet, Siasconset,
Sagaponack, and Seagate ?
Air. Sammis. It was my understanding that the Secretary of the Navy
was to close all the stations north of Norfolk, and we asked the
United Wireless Telegraph Co. to do likewise.
Senator Smith. So, after that was done, if it was done, you had an
absolute, uninterrupted monopoly
Mr. Sammis (interposing). Not altogether; we should have had.
Senator Smith. Wait until I finish. (Continuing.) Except for
interference by amateurs, through these stations I nave named, of
information from the Carjfatkiaf
Mr. Sammis. These stations are never interfered with by amateurs.
I should say that I have never received a complaint frbm any one of
them. Ihey are so located that they are quite free from amateur
interference. 1 hey are out in the country.
Senator Smith. We will eliminate the amateurs. Strike out the
reference to the amateurs entirely, and the reply. Now read the
question.
Mr. Sammis. I say, we asked the United Wireless Co. to do
Senator Smith. Kead the question.
The stenographer read the question, as follows:
So, after that was done, if it waa done, you had an absolute, uninterrupted monopoly,
through these stations I have named, of information from the Carpathiaf
Mr. Sammis. I said, '*No; that these stations were instructed to
handle only urgent business.'' It is reasonable to suppose there was
some urgent business other than the Carpathians, and I know other
business was handled. But it w^ls at a minimum, and it was my
understanding — Gov. Griggs was in Washington — that the Navy ves-
sels would handle their business through Sagaponack, South Wells-
fleet, Seagate, and Siasconset; and apparently tnere was either a mis-
understanding or a mistake, and tlie Navy vessels communicated with
their own stations at Newport, I understand, and at Fire Island.
That made considerable confusion and necessitated, of course, that
the operator on the CirpatMa should keep quiet. He could do noth-
ing while they were retransmitting these names. I think it was a
great pity, as we look at it now, that the Carpathia was not either
allowed to s?nd this material uninterrupted to its own shore stations,
or, better, that the Navy stations should not have used our own sta-
tions. By putting another shore station into it you just halve the
time. In other words, you had a re transmittal. The Carpathia had
to tell the Chester y and while the Chester was in turn sending it ashore
the Carpathia could do notliing but sit still.
Senator Smith. We will now go back to my question. Read the
question and I will add something to it.
The reporter repeated the question, as follows:
Do you know, of your own knowledge, of any injunction put upon your operators
silencing all communication between stations at sea or on land except Wellsfleet,
Siasconset, Sagaponack, and Seagate, so, alter that was done, if it was done, you had
an abmlute, unmtemipted monopoly through theee stations I have named, of inform
mation from the Carpathiaf
846 TITAKIC DI8A8TEB.
Senator Smith (continuing). Or, if your advice had been taken and
the attempt you made had succeeded, you would have had absolute
control of connection with the Oarpathm as a result of this arrange-
ment?
Mr. Sammis. No; the conditions would have been very much
better. That was our endeavor, to make the conditions the best that
we could. But, of necessity, we could not deny to the one hundred
and fifty or two hundred-oad vessels running in and out of New York
the absolute right for four days to use their wireless at all, and we did
not attempt to do so.
Senator SMrrn. You did not make any attempt. I do not under-
stand that is a part of this plan.
Mr. Sammis. les; we enjoined them all. The ships were all told
not to use their wireless until they got out of this zone, any more than
they absolutelv had to. Of course, they absolutely had to, under
conditions.
Senator Smith. You said Mr. Cottam has been paid his $750 by
the Times ?
Mr. Sammis. I understand so. I do not know for a fact.
Senator Smith. I think I asked you whether you handed it to him ?
Mr. Sammis. And I said no.
Senator Smfth. You said no?
Mr. Sammis. But I understand that the Times has.
Senator Smith. I do not want any impression to prevail that I am
driving at the Times in their enterprise. 1 am driving at the companv,
and what I regard as a very bad practice. Were you cognissant of t&e
two telegrams sent by Mr. Marconi, through the Siasconset station,
demanding to know why it was imuossible to get news ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know whetner I was or not.
Senator Smith. Which you spoke of a few moments ago ?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know whether I was or not at the time. The
messages have been spoken of so much since, it is difficult to toll
just when I learned of them. I think probably I was too busy with
other things to know very much about them.
Senator Smith. Are you famihar with the message he sent asking
the captain to give a reason why no news was allowed to be trans-
mitted ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes; I just heard him read it.
Senator Smith. That would indicate that there was not any news
coming from the Carpatkia, would it not?
Mr. Sammis. Not of a general character. You know the passengers
on the ship were not sending news; they were simply saying All
safe,'* or We are here," or "Meet us,'* or something of that kind.
They were not telling very much about their experiences.
Senator Smith. In wireless telegraphy what does the expression
"Old man '* indicate?
Mr. Sammis. It is a term of endearment more than anything else.
Senator Smith. Is it well understood among operators?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir; quite often it is abbreviated, "O. M,;" it
probably was in this case.
Senator Smith. Did you or any officer of your company, or any
-operator of your company on any station, receive, or attempt to get,
any compensation oi any kind or character, or reward, from any
person, corporation, or company whomsoever, for any information in
ti .^^^.^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 847
your possession or in their possession following the sinking of the
Titanic on Sunday evening ?
Mr. Sammis. Not that I know of. I have not anything to do -with
the business end of the concern.
Senator Smith. Other than in the manner that you have described t
Mr. Sammis. Technical work, strictly; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Other than in the manner you have described
already ?
Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who employs the operators of the British company 1
Mr. Sammis. There are two British companies. The operating
company is the Marconi International Marine Communication Co.^
and they employ the men on British ships.
Senator Smith. Who is the officer of that company in America 1
Mr. Sammis. They have not any officer in America, unless perhaps
Mr. Marconi is one.
Senator Smith. Do you care to say anything more r^arding the
unpleasant side of this affair than you have referred to, or have ^ou
anvthing else of interest that will assist the committee in its inquiry t
Mr. Sammis. There is one statement I should like to make, in con-
nection with the apparent implication about the Navy operators. It
is a thin^ that has been made much of, quite innocently on our part.
I think Uie matter stands right here; that Mr. Bride or anybody else
who has spoken about this matter intended to throw no unpleasant
implications at tlie Navy operators; but simply to show that it takes
us from six to eight months to train men in our method of working,
granting that they know the code perfectly. Work can be handled
with the utmost expedition only by the shore station and the ship
thoroughly understanding the mode of procedure, and our ship opera-
tors and shore station men are experts in that procedure. In the
communication that I addressed to Gov. Griggs, which he took up
with the Secretary of the Navy, I intended to convey that idea, by
saying that our men could handle more messages than the Navy, not
because, necessarily, they are more rapid operators or better operators,
but because they are trained in our service. We handle, I suppose,
from 100,000 to 150,000 messages in a year, some of them extremely
long, and I have known our men to handle 50 paid messages an hour.
In other words, it was not necessarily because they were better opera-
tors, but because they were trained in our method of work, of handling
commercial business and handling it quick, with the utmost alacrity,
and with the least formal red tape in between messages. As an in-
stance, it is not unusual for a German ship to come along and offer 50
messages for Sagaponack. They will say ^^G," and give us 50 mes-
sages at a time, and then we will give our O. K. Rd., and that is all
there is to it. **G^' means go ahead and **Rd'^ means **Received."
Senator Smith. Are you seeking to leave the impression that the
Operator Cottam was a more experienced man, a more reliable ope-
rator, and could transact a larger amount of business than the opera-
tor on the Chester?
Mr. Sammis. I do not know anything about their individual quali-
fications, other than that he undoubtedly knew more about our
method of work.
Senator Smith. Suppose it should turn out that your operator
Cottam had only had nine months' experience as a wireless operator,
while the operator on the Chester haa had seven years^ experience I
(( >f
848 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Sammis. I should not think that would alter the case a particle.
Senator Smith. It would not ?
Mr. Sammis. No, i»r. Because if we could have the Navy man
and give him nine months' experience, he would then be a much
better man than Cottam, undoubtedly.
Senator Smith. Well, you do not see any good reason for casting
toy reflection upon the efficiency of the Navy operators ?^
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely not; and I do not thmk anyone has ever
intended it, except in the way I have mentioned, that they do not
Imow our naethods of handliog business for which we have certain
prescribed rules.
. Senator Smith. Do you know whether i* is the practice of the
Navy operators to sell their news exclusively to private parties 9
Mr. Sammis. No; I do not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. You never heard oi such a thing, did you ?
Mr. Sammis. I have seen numerous press dispatches m individual
papers from United States war vessels, from the operaUn^.
Senator Smith. They were usually official in their character, were
they not; communications from the Navy Department?
. !Mr. Sammis. It was not apparent on the message.
Senator Smith« But you have never heard of such a practice as we
Iiave been talking about, prevailing in the Navy ? *
Mr. Sammis. No; I think two occasions would hardly be called a
practice.
Senator Smith. Do you mean to be understood as saying that the
jBinns case, where he sold his information, and the cases of Mr. Bride
and Mr. Cottam, were the only ones that ever came to your notice i
Mr. Sammis. Absolutely the only ones that ever happened; yes.
Senator Smith. And I supi)ose you now hoi>e they are the only ones
that ever will come to your notice, do you not ?
Mr. Sammis. Quite so.
Senator Smith. Although we have been quite a time reaching that
conclusion. I do not know whether any of my associates care to
interrogate you or not, but you may remain subject to the call of the
committee and be excused for the present.
I asked for certain information in New York, which you promise<l.
Mr. Sammis. That I promised to furnish ?
Senator Smith. I though you responded when I asked a question
in that connecticm, but perhaps that is covered by Mr. Marconi's
promise.
. Mr. Sammis. I think so.
Senator Smith. And you will assist in carrying it outi
. Mr. Sammis. Yes, sir. I have an urgent appointment in Bost<>n
to close a $100, 000 contract on Wednesday morning, and I woidd be
very glad to leave if possible this evening.
Senator Smith. You would have to leave the night before ?
Mr. Sammis. I wanted to leave on the 4 o'clock train this afternoon.
« Senator Smith. Come in at half past 2, then, aad if wy of my associ-
ates care to interrogate you, they may do so then. We hope we will
not interfere with vour contract.
Mr. Bride, are you perfectly comfortable to-day ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; thank you.
Senator Smith. Will it be any special accommodation to you to
go on now, or will it suit you just as well to go on after luncheon?
t( «.«.^— *» ff
TTFAmC DISASTER. 849
Mr. Brede. Either way, sir.
Sttnaior Smith. Then we wiD take a recess until 2.30.
Thereupon at 1.15 p. m. the committee took a recess until 2.30
o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The subcommittee met pursuant to adjournment, Senator William
Alden Smith (chairman) presiding.
Senator Smith. I will now cau Mr. Hugh Woolner, 29 Welbeck
Street West, Conservative Club, London.
TESTIMOmr OF MB. HUGH WOOLNEB.
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Will you give your full name to the reporter ?
Mr. WooLNER. Hugh Woolner.
Senator Smith. Ana your address ?
Mr. Woolner. 29 Welbeck Street, London.
Senator Smith. What is jour business ?
Mr. Woolner. I am a director of various conipanies.
Senator Smith. Were you a passenger on the TiUmic?
Mr. Woolner. I was.
Senator Smith. On her voyage from Southampton to the place of
the accident ?
Mr. Woolner. I was.
Senator Smith. Did you sail from Southampton or Queensto^Mi ?
Mr. Woolner. From Southampton.
Senator Smith. I will ask you, in your own way, to state your
observations and experiences on the Titanic between Southampton
and the place of the accident, and your observation and experience
following the colUsion, up to the time you went on board tlie Car-
pathia.
Mr. Woolner. What sort of observation do vou wish about the
period between Southampton and the place of the accident ?
Senator Smith. I would like to know whether vou observed the
movement of the ship, whether you took interest in her equipment,
whether you noticed her speed, where you were on the boat, what
stateroom you occupied
Mr. Woolner (interrupting). My stateroom was B-52.
Senator Smith. On what deck was that ?
Mr. Woolner. That is the deck below A deck, the inner stateroom.
Senator Smith. Do you know anyone who was near you in the
staterooms on B deck?
Mr. Woolner. Nobody.
Senator Smith. Did vou have any friends aboard ship ?
Mr. Woolner. One lady was recommended to mv care by lettei-s
from friends in England. She joined the ship at Cherbourg, but I
had not known her before.
Senator Smith. Was she a survivor?
Mr. Woolner. Yes sir — Mrs. Churchill Candee.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Ismay had a stateroom
on your deck ?
850 TITANIC DI8ASTBB.
Mr. WooLNER. I do not.
Senator Smith. Tell us in y^ ur own way whether you paid any
special attention to the movements of the ship, to the weather, to
tne equipment, and any circumstance that may tend to throw l^ht
upon this calamity up to the time of the collision ?
Mr. WooLNEB. I took the ordinary passenger's interest in the
number of miles we did each day. Beyond that I did not take any
note of the speed of the ship.
Senator Smith. What were your observationa ?
Mr. WooLNER. I noticed that, so far as my memory serves me,
the number of miles increased per day as we went on. If I remember
right, one day it was 314, and the next day was 356, and that was the
last number I remember. I think that was the last number that was
put up on the ship's chart, or whatever it is called.
Senator Smith. Did vou note the equipment of the ship?
Mr. WooLNER. In wnat respect?
Senator Smith. Whether she had lifeboats ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir. I went right up onto the top deck and
looked around, and I took also particular note of the mechanism for
raising and lowering the glass windows on the A deck, and I watched
the sailors winding them up with these spanners that are used for
that purpose. It stnick me as being rather a slow job.
Senator Smith. Did you see any drills aboard ship by the men
between Southampton and the place of the accident?
Mr. WooLNER. 1 saw none.
Senator Smith. Did you have occasion to see the captain
occasionally ?
Mr. WooLNER. I asked somebody to point him out to me. Natu-
rally, one is interested to know the appearance of the captain, and I
knew him by sight.
Senator Smith. When and where did j^ou see him?
Mr. WooLNER. I saw liim at breakfast and, I think, at dinner one
evening in the saloon, but I am not quite definite about dinner; I
think so.
Senator Smith. Did you see him tJie night of the accident?
Mr. WooLNER. Xot until I came up onto the boat deck, and he was
there on the port side.
Senator Smith. Wliere was he?
Mr. WooLNER. He was on the port side.
Senator Smith. Yes; but where with reference to the port side?
Mr. WooLNER. He was between the two lifeboats that were
farthest astern on the port side, giviiig orders.
Senator Smith. The two that were farthest astern ?
Mr. WooLXER. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. How long w^as this after the collision ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not look at my watch, but I should think it
was half an liour.
Senator Smith. Did you hear liira say anything or did you say
anything to him ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; I did. I made one remark to him. He said:
''I want all the passengers to go down on A deck, because I intend
thw shall go into the boats from A deck.'' I remembered noticing
as I came up that all those glass windows were raised to the very top;
and I went up to the captain and saluted him and said: "Haven't you
ii ._».«.,^ fi
TITANIC DISASTER. 851
forgotten, sir, that all those glass windows are closed?" He said:
"Bv God, you are right. Call those people back." Very few people
had moved, but the few that had some down the companionway
came up agU, and everything went on aU right.
Senator Smith. Were the boats lowered to A deck and filled from
A deck?
Mr. WooLNER. No; from the boat deck.
Senator Smith. From the upper deck ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then the order must have been countermanded ?
Mr. WooLNBB. Immediately.
Senator Smith. If you can, I would like to have you tell the com-
mittee where you were on Sunday preceding that accident ?
Mr. WooLNER. I was in the smoking room at the time of the shock.
Senator Smith. Who was in there with you, if anyone, that you now
know or could name ?
Mr. WooLNBR. Mr. Steffanson, a Swedish gentleman, whose
acauaintance I made on board, who sat at my table.
Senator Smith. Anyone else ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; a Mr. Kennett.
Senator Smith. Anvone else ?
Mr. WooLNER. I think, but I am not quite certain, a Mr. Smith
He had been with us quite a short time before.
Senator Smith. Did you see Mr. Stead that evening ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not know him.
Senator Smith. When did you first know of the impact ?
Mr. WooLNER. We felt it under the smoking room. We folt a sort
of stopping, a sort of, not exactly shock, but a sort of slowing down;
and then we sort of felt a rip that gave a sort of a slight twist to the
whole room. Everybody, so far as I could see, stood up and a number
of men walked out rapidly through the swinging doors on the port
side, and ran along to the rail that was behind tlie mast — I think there
was a mast standing out there — and the rail just beyond.
Senator Smith. What did you do ?
Mr. WooLNER. I stood hearing what the conjectures were. People
were guessing what it might be, and one man called out, ** An iceberg
has passed astern, '' but who it was I do not know. I never have seen
the man since. .
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. WooLNER. I then went to look for Mre. Candee, because she
was the lady in whom I was most interested, and I met her outside her
stateroom.
Senator Smith. What took place ? Just detail what you did ?
Mr. WooLNER. I said: "Some accident has happened, but I do
not think it is anything serious. Let us go for a walk.'' We walked
the after deck for quite a considerable time. As we passed
Senator Smith (interposing). For how long a time?
Mr. WooLNER. I should think for 10 minutes or more. As we
passed one of the entrances to the corridor, I saw people coming up
with life belts; so I went inside and asked the steward: "Is this
orders?''
Senator Smith. That is, you asked him if the life belts were
ordered ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes. I shouted to some one going by.
852 TITANIC DI6ASTEB.
Senator Smith. An employee with a life belt on ?
Mr. WooLNER. No; standing at the entrance; and he said,
"Orders/'
I went back to Mrs. Candee and took her to her stateroom, and we
got her life belt down from the top of the wardrobe, and tied hers
onto her, and then she chose one or two things out of her baggage,
little things she could put into her pocket, or something of that sort,
and I said, ''We will now go up on deck and see what has really
happened.''
Senator Smith. Did you yourself put a life belt on ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir. I missed that. I went back to my
cabin and brought out and put one on myself, and I took the other
one — there were two in the room — with me. I met some one in the
passage who said, ''Do you want that?" and I said "No," and gave
it to him.
Senator Smith. Who was that; do you know?
Mr. WooLNER. No; I do not know who it was.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. WooLNER. I then tooK Mrs. Candee up onto the boat deck,
and there we saw preparations for lowering the boats going on. My
great desire was to get her into the first boat, which I did, and we
brought up a rug, which we threw in with her, and we waited to see
that boat filled. It was not filled, but a great many people got
into it, and finally it was quietly and orderly lowered away.
Senator Smith. What boat was that ?
Mr. WooLNER. That was the sternmost boat on the port side.
Senator Smith. It was a full-sized lifeboat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Or a collapsible ?
Mr. WooT-NER. No; it was a lifeboat.
Senator Smith. Were any officers standing near it ?
Mr. WooLNER. The captain was close by at that time.
Senator Smith. Did he assist in loading it ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; he sort of ordered the people in. He said,
"Come along, madam," and that sort of thing.
Senator Smith. Was there any difficulty in getting them to enter
the lifeboat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; there was a certain amount of reluctance on
the part of the women to go in, and then some officer said, "It is a
matter of precaution," and then they came forward rather more
freely.
Senator Smith. Did tliis lifeboat hang even with the deck?
Mr. WooLNER. From the davits ?
Senator Smith. No; not from the davits, but the deck. Did the
lifeboat hang even from the deck, or above or below it?
Mr. WooLNER. It was on a level with the deck.
Senator Smith. How far out from the side of the deck did the
lifeboat hang ?
Mr. WooLXER. As I remember it would be about that much
[indicating], I should say about 18 inches.
Senator Smith. Out from the side of the' deck?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you recall how many men were put into that
boat?
1 1 -«-. . ^^,^ 9 y
a^TANIC DlfiASTEB. 863
Mr. WooLNER. No ; I can not. There were very few, I think.
Senator Smith. Or how many women ?
Mr. WooLNER. Oh, I did not count them, but it struck me as not
being very full, but it was rather difficult to get it filled.
Senator Smith. Mrs. Candee got in that boat?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
S3nator Smith. After you had put her in the boat, what did you
do?
Mr. WooLNER. I looked around to see what else I could do.
Senator Smith. Did you find anything to do ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did what a man could. It was a very distressing
scene — the men parting from their wives.
Senator Smfth. Did you assist in loading the boats ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many boats ?
Mr. WooLNER. I think nearlv all, except one on the port side, and
Mr. Steffanson stayed by me all the time, also.
Senator Smith. This Swedish acquaintance you formed stayed by
you?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What, if any, order was given by officers, or what
did you hear regarding the filling of the lifeboats?
y[r. WooLNER. I do not think I remember any orders. I do not
think any orders were necessary.
Senator SMrrn. You mean that the men stood back and passed the
women and children forward ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. There was no crowding ?
Mr. WooLNER. None.
Senator Smith. No jostling ?
Mr. WooLNER. None.
Senator Smith. Were these boats all filled in your presence ?
Mr. WooLNER. On the port side ?
Senator Smith. On the port side.
Mr. WooLNER. Not all. I think we missed one, because I said to
Steffanson: '*Let us go down on the deck below and see if we can
find any people waiting about there." So we went down onto A deck
and we found three women who did not seem to know their way, and
we brought them up.
Senator SMrrn. Who were they ? Do you know ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Passengers, or part of the crew ?
Mr. WooLNER. No ; they might have been, I should think, second
or third class passengers, but I did not examine them very carefully.
You see, it was not very light.
Senator Smith. You took them up to the boat deck ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and they got on all right.
Senator Smith. Did you see officers at these boats besides the
captain ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; the first officer.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes. He was very active.
Senator SMrrn. From your own observation are you enabled to say
that, so far as you know, the women and children all got aboard these
lifeboats ?
864 UTANIO DI8A8TBB.
Mr. WooLNER. So far as I could see, with the exception of Mrs.
Straus.
Senator Smith. Did you see her get into the boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. She would not get in. I tried to get her to do so
and she refused altogether to leave Mr. Straus. The second time we
went up to Mr. Straus, and I said to him: *'I am sure nobody would
object to an old gentleman like you getting in. There seems to be
room in this boat." He said: *^I will not go before the other men."
Senator Smfth. What happened then ?
Mr. WooLNER. Then they eventually lowered all the wooden life-
boats on the port side, and then they got out a collapsible and hitched
her onto the most forward davits and they filled that up, mostly with
steerage women and children, and one seaman, and a steward, and I
think one other man — but I am not quite certain about that — ^and
when that boat seemed to be quite fuU, and was ready to be swung
over the side, and was to be lowered away, I said to Steffanson:
''There is nothing more for us to do here." Oh, no; something else
happened while that boat was being loaded. There was a sort of
scramble on the starboard side, and 1 looked around and I saw two
flashes of a pistol in the air.
Senator Smith. Two flashes of a pistol ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Pistol shots ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes ; but they were up in the air, at that sort of an
angle [indicating]. I heard Mr. Murdock shouting oiit, *'Get out of
this, clear out of this," and that sort of thing, to a lot of men who
were swarming into a boat on that side.
Senator Smith. Swarming into the boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was that into this collapsible boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. It was a collapsible; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That was the first collapsible that was lowered on
the port side?
Mr. WooLNER. On the starboard side. That was the other side.
Senator Smith. You were across the ship ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. You were then on the starboard side?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes. We went across there because we heard a
certain kind of shouting going on, and just as we got around the cor-
ner I saw these two flashes of the pistol, and Steffanson and I went
up to help to clear that boat of the men who were climbing in, because
there was a bunch of women — I think Italians and foreigners— who
were standing on the outside of the crowd, unable to make their way
toward the side of the boat.
Senator Smith. Because these men had gathered around this col-
lapsible boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir. So we helped the officer to pull these men
out, by their logs and anything we could get hold of.
Senator Smith. You pulled them out of the boat?
Mr. WooLNER. We pulled out several, each.
Senator Smith. How many?
Mr. WooLNER. I should think five or six. But -they were really
flying before Mr. Murdock from inside of the boat at the time.
Senator Smith. They were members of the crew?
if .^ t9
TITANIC DISASTER. 855
Mr. WooLNEB. I could not tell. No; I do not think so. I think
they were probably third-class passengers. It was awfully difficult
to notice very carefully. I got nold of them by their feet and legs.
Then they cleared out, practically all the men, out of that boat, and
then we lifted in these Italian women, hoisted them up on each side
and put them into the boat. They were very limp. They had not
much spring in them at all. Then that boat was finally filled up and
swung out, and then I said to Steffanson: *' There is nothing more
for us to do. Let us go down onto A deck again." And we went
down again, but there was nobody there that time at all. . It was
perfectly empty the whole length. It was absolutely deserted, and
the electric lignts along the ceiling of A deck were beginning to
turn red, just a glow, a red sort of glow. So I said to Steffanson:
'^This is getting rath^ a tight comer. I do not like being inside
these closed windows. Let us go out through the door at the end.''
And as we went out through the door the sea came in onto the deck at
our feet.
Senator Smith. You were then on A deck?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did you look on both sides of the deck to see
whether there were people ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You say there were none ?
Mr. WooLNER. None, tne whole length of it.
Senator Smith. The whole length of A deck you saw no people ?
Mr. WooLNER. Not a soul.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the collapsible lifeboat
that you have just referred to was lowered ?
Mr. WooLNER. Oh, quite a few minutes ; a very few minutes.
Senator Smith. You remained down there with your friend until
the sea came in — water came in — on A deck ?
Mr. WooLNER. On that A deck. Then we hopped up onto the
gunwale preparing to jump out into the sea, because if we nad waited
a minute longer we should have been boxed in against the ceiling.
And as we looked out we saw this collapsible, the last boat on the port
side, being lowered right in front of our faces.
Senator Smith. How far out ?
Mr. WooLNER. It was about 9 feet out ?
Senator Smith. Nine feet out from the side of A deck ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. You saw a collapsible boat being lowered ?
ifr. WooLNER. Being lowered ; yes.
Senator Smith. Was it filled with people ?
Mr. WooLNER. It was full up to the bow, and I said to Steffanson:
''There is nobody in the bows. Let us make a jump for it. You
go first."
And he jumped out and tumbled in head over heels into the bow,
and I jumped too, and hit the gunwale with my chest, which had on
this life preserver, of course, and I sort of bounced off the gunwale
and caught the gunwale with my fingers, and slippetl off backwards.
Senator Smith. Into the water?
Mr. WooLNER. As my legs dropped down I felt that thoy were in
the sea.
Senator Smith. You are quite sure you jumped 9 feet to get that
boat ?
856 TITANIC DI8ASTEB,
Mr. WooLNER. That is my estimate. By that time, you see, we
were jumping slightly downward.
Senator Smith. Did you jump out or down?
Mr. WooLNER. Both.
Senator Smith. Both out and down ?
Mr. WooLNER. Slightly down and out.
Senator Smith. It could not have been very far down if the water
was on A deck; it must have been out.
Ml'. WooLNER. Chiefly out; but it was suflficiently down for us to
be able .to see just over the edge of the gunwale of Uie boat.
Senator Smith. You pulled yourself up out of the water?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and then 1 hooked my right heel over the
gunwale, and by this time Steifanson was stanoing up, and he caught
hold of me and Ufted me in. Then we looked over mto the sea and
saw a man swimming in the sea just beneath us, and pulled him in.
Senator Smith. Who was he 1
Mr. WooLNER. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did you pull anybody else in ?
Mr. WooLNER. No; by that time we were afloat.
Senator Smith. Did anybody leave your lifeboat?
Mr. WooLNER. Leave it ?
Senator Smith. Yes; after you got in.
Mr. WoOLNER. No.
Senator Smith. Or attempt to leave it?
Mr. WooLNER. No. By that time we were bumping against the
side of the ship.
Senator Smith. Against the Titanic^ 8 side ?
Mr. WooLNER. She was going down pretty fast bythe-bow.
Senator Smith. You were still on the port side? Forward, or
back, or amidships ?
Mr. WooLNER. We were exactly opposite the end of the glass win-
dows on the A deck.
Senator Smith. How many men did vou find in that collapsible
boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. We found one sailor, a steward, and one other man.
Senator Smith. And your friend and yourself?
Mr. WooLNER. And the man we pulled out of the sea.
Senator Smith. That made six.
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. How many women were there in that boat ?
Mr. W^OOLNER. I did not count them. It seemed quite full of
women and children. I should think there were about 30.
Senator Smith. About 30 women and children ?
Mr. W^ooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many children ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not count them, but quite a bunch.
Senator Smith. Did 3'ou know any of the women, or do you know
any of them now ?
Mr. WooLNER. I can not remember their names. One lady had a
broken ellH)w bone. She was in a white woolen jacket. She sat
beside me, eventually.
Senator Smith. What officer, if any, did you find in that collapsible
boat when you got in ?
Mr. WooLNER. No officer.
(t ..»».« ^ >f
TITANIC DISABTEB. 857
Senator Smith. .Who took charge of that boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. There was a seaman in the stem who steered hef
with an oar, but when we got out among the other boats, we obeyed
the orders of the officer who was in chaise of the bunch of boats.
Senator Smith. ^Vho was that, if you know ?
Mr. WooLNER. I think it was Mr.* Lowe, the man who got his sail up«
Senator Smith. He got his sail up ?
Mr. WooLNER. Afterwards; not then, but later. I think his
name was Lowe.
Senator Smith. How far out from the side of the TUanic did yot
go before you stopped ?
Mr. WooLNER. We got out three oars first, and shoved oflf from
the side of the ship. Then we got her head more or less straightaway,
and then we pulled as hard as we could, until, I should think, w#
vrere 150 yards away, when the TUanic went dovni.
Senator Smith. Did you see her go dovm I
Mr. WoLLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you near enough to recognize people oa
deck?
Mr. WooLNER. No.
Senator Smith. As she went down did vou see or feel any suction I
Mr. WooLNER. I did not detect any; she seemed to me to stop for
about 30 seconds at one place before she took the final plunge, be-
cause I watched one particular porthole, and the water did not ria4
there for at least half a minute, and then she suddenly slid under
with her propellers under the water.
Senator Smith. She went down bow first.
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any explosion ?
Mr. WooLNBR. No; a sort of rumbling roar, it sounded to me, as
she sUd under.
Senator Smith. What, if anything, can you say to the committee
regarding the discipline or absence of discipUne on the part of th«
officers or crew after the impact ?
Mr. WooLNER. I saw no want of discipline.
Senator Smith. Was there any warning or si^al given, to your
knowledge, after the boat struck, to passengers in their rooms I
Mr. WooLNER. I can not tell you, because I simply went to my
room and got my life belt and came away
Senator Smith. You found Mrs. Candee ?
Mr. WooLNER. She was waiting at the door of her stateroom, and
I took her up on deck.
Senator Smith. Had she received any warning at that time from
anybody ?
Sir. WooLNER. Only from my asking the steward whether the
orders were that we should put on life belts.
Senator Smith. But, so far as you know, no special warning had
been given to her at that time ?
Mr. WooLNER. I can not tell whether the steward went to her
room; but, you see, there was no call for it. She knew what tha
orders were.
Senator Smith. Who fired those two shots, do you know ?
Mr. WooLNER. Mr. Murdock, so far as I can tell.
40475— PT 10—12
ii ^ ^ ff
858 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Mr. Murdock, the chief officer ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; he was the first officer, was he not?
Senator Smith. You are quite certain it was not Mr. Lowe i
Mr. WooLNEB. I am pretty certain. I think I recognized the
wee of Mr. Murdock.
Senator Smith. Mr. Lowe says he fired three shots as his lifeboat
was being lowered.
Mr. WooLNER. I do not remember them.
Senator Smith. You got off about 150 yards from where the ship
went down, and then you tied up with these other boats
Mr. WooLNER. We rowed on and on for some time.
Senator Smith. Was your boat alone ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; for quite a considerable time we simply rowed
•ut into the sea.
Senator Smith. For how long a time ?
Mr. WooLNER. I should say a quarter of an hour. We heard
•Cher boats around about us, and when the eyes got accustomed to
the darkness one could see a certain amount.
Senator Smith. Did you have any light in your boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. There was a lantern, but there was no oil in it.
Senator Smith. After pulling out for 15 minutes or so, what took
place 1
Mr. WooLNER. Then some officer came along and said: "I want
dD these boats tied up by their painters, head and tail, so as to make
a more conspicuous mark''; and we did that; and there was no call
to row much after that because we were simply drifting about.
Senator Smith. Did you go back to the scene of the wreck after
pulling out this' 150 or 200 yards ?
Mr. WooLNER. No.
Senator SMrrn. Was there any attempt made by your boat to go
buck, so far as you know ?
Mr. WooLNER. Not bv our boat; no.
Senator Smith. Did the women urge that the boat be taken back \
Mr. WooLNER. No.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any officer say that the boat should be
taken back to the scene of the wreck ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not.
Senator Smith. After you got tied together, what did you do ?
Mr. WooLNER. We drifted about for a long time.
Senator Smith. Drifted ?
Mr. W^ooLNER. Yes; just drifted about. There was nothing to do.
Senator Smith. And waited until daylight ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and then dawn began to break very. slowly,
aond we could see more.
Senator Smith. During the time that you were drifting about did
Eiu see any lights in any direction other than those that were on the
eboats ?
Mr. WooLNER. I could not tell; but there was a green light that
tppeared, not all the time, but most of the time, down to the south.
Senator Smith. How far awav ?
Mr. WooLNER. I could not tell, but I should tliink about half a mile
ar a mile.
Senator Smith. That was probably the green light that was on
Officer Boxhall's boat ?
ti 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 859
Mr. WooLNER. Verv likely. I did not identify it.*
Senator Smith. TAA you see any lights beside that, in any direc-
tion, that looked like tlie lights of a ship ?
Mr. WoOLNER. No.
Senator Smith. Or did you see any rockets ?
Mr. WooLNER. I think 1 saw a rocket, rather in the direction where
the Carpathia came up; but it was very distant.
Senator Smith. How long before the Carpathia came up ?
Mr. WooLNER. Considerably after the sun rose.
Senator Smith. After daybreak did you sight the Carpathia right
away ?
Mr. WooLNER. No, sir; we did not sight the ship. Other things
happened before then.
Senator Smith. Tell what happened.
Mr. WooLNER. An officer came down and said he wanted to
empty some of the people out of his boat, because he wanted to go
ana rescue some people who were on what he called a raft ; and they
put some people out of the boat, as many as our boat would hold.
Probably 5 or 6 were put in our boat, which brought us down very
close to the water.
Senator Smith. That was Mr. Lowe's boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. I think it was.
Senator Smith. And they took the people out of Mr. Lowe's boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Into other boats.
Senator Smith. And did they put some oarsmen into Mr. Lowe's
boat?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and then he got a crew, mostly of sailors, I
think.
Senator Smith. He recruited a crew from amongst those lifeboats ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; or he may have turned out certain men from
his boat and got others.
Senator Smith. And you went in the direction of this swamped
boat?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and took the men on board.
Senator Smith. Did you go with him ?
Mr. WooLNER. No, no. We were very heavily laden then.
Senator Smith. When it got daylight did you see any icebergs or
floatingice ?
Mr. WOOLNER. Yes; a number of icebergs.
Senator Smith. How near the place where the Titanic went down ?
Mr. WooLNER. It is was rather difficult to identify that unless one
took the wreckage that was floating away as an indication of where
she went down. Taking that, I would say that the nearest was sev-
eral miles away; but there were a great many of them.
Senator Smith. At daylight ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and they were of different colors as the sun
struck them. Some looked white and some looked blue, and some
sort of mauve, and others were dark gray.
Senator Smith. Did any look black ?
Mr. WooLNER. A dark sort of gray.
Senator Smith. How large w^ere they ?
Mr. WooLNER. It is very difficult to tell.
Senator Smith. Did you see any as large as the Capitol Building,
here?
(( ,^^ 9}
860 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. WooLNEK. No; there was one double-toothed one that looked
to be of good size.
Senator Smith. How high; 100 feet high?
Mr. WooLNER. I should think it must have been; but it was a
considerable distance away.
Senator Smith. About 20 or 30 feet higher than the Titanic?
Mr. WooLNER. It may easily have been that.
Senator Smith. Did you see any field ice ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. How much of that ?
Mr. WooLNER. I saw a faint line, what looked like a faint line
along the horizon; but when we got on the Carvathia, we saw it was
a huge floe which stretched out, 1 do not know now far, but we were
several hours steaming along it.
Senator Smith. Twenty or thirty miles ?
Mr. WooLNER. Quite that, I should say.
Senator Smith. And did that field ice follow closely these icebergs <
Mr. WooLNER. No; they looked more Uke scouts out in front.
Senator Smith. Out in front ?
Mr. WooLNER. By out in front I mean to the south.
Senator Smith. That is, the icebergs were out south of the field ice ?
Mr. WooLNER. That is the wav it looked to me.
Senator Smith. The field ice came down behind it how far?
Mr. WooLNER. One could not see whether it moved at all. It
seemed to be absolutely stationary the whole time; but there were
lumps on it, sort of lumps like haystacks or Uttle mountains.
Senator Smith. I have not yet been able to discover — and I hope
you will pardon me for persisting — how far to the north of these large
icebergs this field ice lay.
Mr. WooLNER. From the boat it looked hke a little white, thin line
along the horizon. I could not possibly judge how far.
Senator Smith. That is, the water line ?
Mr. WooLNER. The water fine, and then a line of brilliant ice.
From the boat I could not tell how far it was.
Senator Smith. Did the icebergs seem to be moving ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not watch them very closely.
Senator Smith. The Carpaihia lingered in that vicinity for an hour
or so?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; she seemed to come up very slowly and then
she stopped. Then we looked out and we saw that there was a boat
alongside her, and then we realized that she was waiting for us to
come up to her instead of her coming to us, as we hoped. Then, just
at that time, when we began to row toward the Carpaihiay Mr. Lowe
came down with his boat under sail, again, and hailed us and said,
''Are you a collapsible ?'' We answered, "Yes.'^ He said, '*How
are you ?" I said, '' We have about all we want.'' He said, " Would
you hke a tow?'' We answered, ''Yes, we would." So he took our
painter and towed us away from the Carpathmy and then we looked
and saw that there was another little group of people standing up in
the sea who had to be rescued, and there were about
Senator Smith. Where were they ?
Mr. WooLNER. They were standing on an upturned boat.
Senator Smith. That is, on the bottom of the upturned boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
" TITANIC '' DISASTEB. 861
Senator Smith. How many of them were there ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not know how many of them, but it looked like
a dozen or 13.
Senator Smith. Were there any women among them ?
Mr. WooLNER. One; one woman with black hair. A man helped
her in the boat first, when it came alongside.
Senator Smith. Did you go in that boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. We were onlv our painter's length away. Mr.
Lowe took them all on board his boat.
Senator Smith. Would you recognize them ?
Mr. WooLNER. The men ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. WooLNER. One man I saw was a first-class passenger whom I
had seen in the saloon.
Senator Smith. Ijook at that young man back of you and see
whetheryou saw him there ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not remember him.
Senator Smith. Who had charge of that upturned boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not know, at all.
Senator Smith. Any officer ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not recognize anybody. I did not know any
of them by sight. They were simply people.
Senator Smith. Was this boat that you jumped into hanging
straight down from the davits
Mr. WooLNER (interrupting). Rather out than straight down.
Senator Smith (continuing). On the boat deck, or was it held out
from the side of A deck by anything ?
Mr. WooLNER. No; it seemed to me to be hanging out from the
ship, because the ship liad a list to port. That is how it appeared to
me.
Senator Smith. The ship listed to the port side ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; and that is why I judge the boat was hanging
out so far away.
Senator Smith. And that threw this lifeboat out away from the
side of the ship t
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir; that is how I judged it.
Senator Smith. About 9 feet ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir; I should judge it was about that; about 8
feet 6, perhaps. It was not less than 8 feet, and probably 9.
Senator Smith. Did the Hfeboats appear to be new?
Mr. WooLNER. I could not tell. They were perfectly watertight.
Senator Smith. Did you have any food or water in your lifeboat?
Mr. WooLNER. We Kad a water breaker, I think they call it; but
there was no water in it.
Senator Smith. Did you have any food in the boat?
Mr. WooLNER. Not that I know of.
Senator Smith. Did anybody ask for food ?
Mr. WooLNER. No. A sailor offered some biscuits, which I was
using for feeding a small child who had waked up and was crying. It
was one of those little children for whose parents everybody was look-
ing; the larger one of those two.
Senator Smith. Its mother was not on this boat?
Mr. WoOLNER. No.
Senator Smith. How old was that child ?
862 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. WooLNER. I should think it was about 5, as nearly as I can
judge.
Senator Smith. Do you know of what nationality it was?
Mr. WooLNER. I could not quite make out.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether it was English or American ?
Mr. WooLNER. I should say it was not either. I should think it
was
Senator Smith (interposing). I mean whether it belonged to an
English parent or American parent ?
Mr. WooLNER. It looked hke a French clxild; but it kept shouting
for its doll, and I could not make out what it said before that. It kept
saying it over and over again.
Senator Smith. Were there two of these children in the boat ?
Mr. WooLNER. I can not tell. This is the only one that I had any-
thing to do with. There were several other children in the boat. We
handed them into a bag, and they were pulled up the Carpathians side.
Senator Smith. Have you seen them since ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; I think I saw it once on the Carpaihia. It
had very curly hair; light brownish curhr hair.
Senator Smith. Was the child identified on the CarpaiJiiat
Mr. WooLNER. Not as far as I know.
Senator Smith. From what you say, Mr. Woolner, I should judge
that you have no complaint to make about the discipline of the
crew or the conduct of the officers?
Mr. Woolner. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. And you do not know whether these men that
crowded up around there, and crowded the women back, were of
the crew or were passengers ?
Mr. Woolner. I could not possibly tell.
Senator Smith. That is the only instance where they did crowd ?
Mr. Woolner. That is the only instance that I saw.
Senator Smith. On the way out from this group of lifeboats that
were tied together to the swamped boat where these people were
standing up in the water
Mr. Woolner (interrupting). The first one or the last one?
Senator Smith. The first one. At that time did you hear any
revolver shots ?
Mr. Woolner. Yes.
Senator Smith. Who fired them ?
Mr. Woolner. I think it was then. I do not know who fired
them. Somebody fired, I think, 4 shots in rapid succession, and we
in our boat were wondering what it was, and somebody in our boat
said, ^^I suppose it is meant for a signal.*'
Senator omith. Could you see the man who fired the shots ?
Mr. Woolner. No; they were so rapid one hardly had time to
turn one's head around.
Senator Smith. You would not recognize him if I were to point
him out to you ?
Mr. Woolner. No ; he was guite a ways off.
Senator Smith. Did that firing of those shots seem to add to the
cornposure of the situation ?
Mr. Woolner. It did not excite anybody. Nobody took any
notice of it. Thejr did not know what it meant, and they did not
take any notice of it.
t< „. >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 86ii
Senator Smith. Were you looking at the Titanic when she went
down?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. As you were looking at her when she went down, d«
you think she broke in two ?
Mr. WooLNER. I did not think so.
Senator Smith. You did not hear any explosions ?
Mr. WooLNER. No, sir; only a continuous rumbling noise.
Senator Smith. As she was going down ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you where you could see the funnels ?
Mr. W00L.NER. You could not really see a thing when the lights
went out. It was all brilliantly hghted at the stern end, and suddenly
the lights went out, and your eyes were so unaccustomed to tu
darkness, you could see nothing, and you could only hear sounds.
Senator Smith. Did you see anyone on the ship at all when yo«
jumped into this lifeboat ?
Mr. WooLNER. There was nobody in sight.
Senator Smith. Nobody on your deck ?
Mr. WooLNER. Not a soul.
Senator Smith. And you saw no one on the other decks, I presuinei
as you were being lowered ? I presume it was impossible for you to
see those upper decks until you got out from the ship ?
Mr. WooLNER. Quite so. We were right up close, and it was like
the side of a house, and we could see nothing at all.
Senator Smith. Do you think 5"ou have said everything that tends
to throw any light on this inquiry regarding the ship, its crew, or
of licers, or equipment ?
Mr. WooLNER. I can not think of anything else, sir.
Senator Smith. You say the speed of the ship greatly increased I
Mr. Wcx)LNER. Judging bv the log.
Senator Smith. And you looked at the log ?
Mr. WooLNER. Quito so.
Senator Smith. Did you look at it the first day out ?
Mr. WooLNER. I was not very much interestecl, because it was not
a full 24 hours. I do not remember what that figure was.
Senator Smith. Did you look at it the second day out ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. What did it record then ?
Mr. WooLNER. As I remember, it was 514 — 514, I think it was;
either 500 or 400. I think it was 514, and then 546 the next day.
Senator Smith. You said 314 before.
Mr. WooLNER. Did I? I meant 514.
Senator Smith. You meant 514 and 546 ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. You want your statement to stand corrected in
that regard ?
Mr. WooLNER. Ifyou please; if you will kindly correct it.
Senator Smith. When did you next see the log ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not remember anv more.
Senator Smith. When did you see the record next ?
Mr. WooLNER. I do not remember any figure.
Senator Smith. You saw it twice ?
i{ ft
S64 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir; it was about 40 miles more the second
time, I think.
Senator Smith. It had increased ?
Mr. WooLNER. About 40 miles, as nearly as I can remember. I
have not thought of the figures since I looked at them, and I do not
pretend to remember them accurately.
Senator Smith. That was for one day^s run?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes.
Senator Smith. A full day's run, 24 hours?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What time w^as that? Do you know? Was it
noon, Sunday ?
Mr. WooLNER. Yes; noon, Sunday. It was put up at about 1
e'clock on Sunday, in the companionway.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Califomian at the scene of the
wreck ?
Mr. WooLNER. I saw her when she came up witliin a mile or two of
the Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Did you see any ice between the Califomian and
the Carpathia at that time ?
Mr. WooLNER. I don't think there was any between them; no. I
think there was some behind the Califomian.
Senator Smith. Did you see the Mount Temple that morning ?
Mr. WooLNER. No; I did not.
Senator Smith. This Canadian Pacific Railway boat?
Mr. WooLNER. No.
Senator Smith. I think that is all, Mr. Woolner, and we are very
much obliged to you for 3'our courtesy.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. Mr. Sammis, I will not delay you longer. We may
ask something of you later, but not to-day.
Mr. Sammis. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF MR. HAEOLD S. BRIDE— Becalled.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, you wore sworn in New York, and I
hoped to have some of my colleagues here to examine you. There are
one or two things I want to ask you. First, I would like to knoAV how
much you received for the story you gave to the New York Times.
Mr. Bride. I received a thousand aollars.
Senator Smith. I want to ask whether, on the way from the scene
of the disaster to New York, you were at the wireless apparatus aboard
the Carpathia?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; I was at the careless apparatus from Tuesday
night to the time of docking.
Senator Smith. All of the time ?
Mr. Bride. I relieved Mr. Cottam, watch and watch.
Senator Smith. How much of that time did you spend at the
apparatus ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Cottam spent a great majority of the time in the
actual transmission, and I was preparing the messages for him for
transmission, and myself I did a certain amount.
Senator Smfth. You had been injured on the Titanict
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
i4 . 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 865
Senator Smith. And notwithstanding that, you relieved him?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I want you to toll again, because there seems to be
a little confusion about it, when you last saw the captain of the
Titanic?
Mr. Bride. The last I saw of the captain of the Titanic, he went
overboard from the bridge about, I should think, three minutes before
I left it mvself.
Senator Smith. Did he have a Ufe preserver on?
Mr. Bride. I could not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You said in New York the other day that he did
not. Do you want to correct that ?
Mr. Bride. Yes; I want to correct it. He had not a life preserver
on the whole of the time when wo were workincr; when he came into
the cabin at frequent intervals. We had not a life preserver on then.
Senator Smith. How long was that before the ship sank ?
Mr. Bride. That was from the time of the beginning of the catas-
trophe to the end.
senator Smith. At no time did you see him with a life preserver on ?
Mr. Bride. No.
Senator Smith. You spoke the other day of your mate, Phillips,
who was the chief operator, I believe
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith (continuing) and yourself, putting on life preservers,
as I recollect, about 10 minutes before the boat sank?
Mr. Bride. Yes; I think it would be somewhere about that time
before the boat sank; I could not sav for certain.
Senator Smith. And you did not leave the shij) until the captain
gave your permission ?
Mr. Bride. No.
Senator Smith. Had everyone else gone ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; there were several people about.
Senator Smith. Passengers ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say. I should think they would be pas-
sengers, or crew; there were quite a number of sailors who assisted
in getting the collapsible off the top deck.
Senator Smith. Did any of them get into it ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I think I was the only one that was in it.
Senator Smith. When did you get in, before it left the side of the
Titanic?
Mr. Bride. I was not exactly in it, either; I got hold of it. That
was as far as I got.
Senator Smith. You got hold of it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. And as it fell into the water it fell over you, upside
down; is that correct ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So that vou were down under this overturned
boat ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Sboth. You swam out from under that boat, and at that
time you saw the boat sink ?
Mr. Bride. Which boat ?
Senator Smith. The Titanic.
866 TITANIC DISASTEB,
Mr. Bride. A short time after that I saw the Titanic sink.
Senator Smith. How many minutes afterwards ?
Mr. Bride. The time was long enough to give me a chance of
getting away from the Titanic itself.
Senator Smith. From the side ?
Mr. Bride. The distance I estimate at 150 feet.
Senator Smith. You had time to get 150 feet away from the side,
and then she sank ?
Mr. Bride. Yes.
Senator Smith. Then you found your way back to this overturned
collapsible boat ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And by that time you say it was crowded ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you got on ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Between the time that you got into the water and
the time that the Titanic went down I understood you to say you
saw the captain still on the deck ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I said the captain left the Titanic a minute or
two minutes before I left the Titanic myself. He left by way of the
bridge.
Senator Smith. He must have left immediately after telling you
to take care of yourself?
Mr. Bride. Jfo, sir; because we did not leave the cabin imme-
diately the captain told us to.
Senator Smith. What did you do?
Mr. Bride. Phillips gave another call of C. Q. D., I believe, and
had an answer to it.
Senator Smith. From whom i
Mr. Bride. I could not say whom the answer was from. I could
hear what Mr. Phillips was sending, but I coul4 not hear what he was
receiving.
Senator Smith. And he did not state to you from whom the answer
came?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And you had no means of fixing the source of that
message ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir. I do not think there was an answer, because
he would have told me if there had been.
Senator Smith. Was your C. Q. D. confirmed by any other ship's
operator.
Mr. Bride. Philhps called C. Q. D. and Ustened for an answer, but
whether he got one or not I can not tell. He did not tell me he had an
answer. He did not say he had not got an answer.
Senator Smith. And you never talked with him about it after that I
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see him alive after that?
Mr. Bride. I saw him walking aft as I was helping to get the col-
lapsible onto A deck.
Senator Smith. And he got aboard the collapsible, too ?
Mr. Bride. So I am tola.
Senator Smith. As I recollect, you say he died before you got to
the Carpathiaf
(t .^•.^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 867
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So you are unable to fix, by any means, the source
of this answer that he got ?
Mr. Bride. I think ne would have stated it if he had had an
answer.
Senator Smith. Was that last C. Q. D. all you said, or all he said ?
Mr. Bride. That was the last, because we were of the opinion at
the end that we were not getting a spark, owing to the poor supply of
power.
Senator Smith. The power had been impaired ?
Mr. Bride. The power was being impaired all the time.
Senator Smith. And you were not getting your full spark ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. That interfered somewhat with the results ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect being in communication with the
Mount Temple during Sunday evening %
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I can not recoflect it.
Senator Smith. I want to fix this fact in the record, so that there
can be no question about it. What was the hour when the CaUfomian
tried to get you Sunday evening ?
Mr. Bride. With the ice report ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Bride. It was in the vicinity of 5 o'clock. It may have been
before or it may have been after that time.
Senator Smith. And at that time you were figuring up your
accounts ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And did not reply to the CaUfomian for 30 minutes,
Mr. Bride. I should not say it was 30 minutes. It was nearer 20
minutes.
Senator Smith. And when you did reply, what information did
you get ?
Mr. Bride. The CaUfomian transmitted the ice report to the
BaltiCj and when the Baltic had acknowledged to the CaUfomian the
receipt of the ice report I did the same.
Senator Smith. Then the Califomian, that had been trying to get
you about 5 o'clock to give you these ice reports, was unable to give
you directly a warning about the ice ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You got it through the Balticf
Mr. Bride. No, sir; I read it as it was being sent to the Baltic,
Senator Smith, f understand ; but I think the record shows that the
message was sent out by the Califomian on Sunday about 5 o'clock
to the Titanic, or communication was undertaken with the Titanic
about that time, to warn you of ice. Am I right ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. They were unable to do so because you did not
respond promptly to their message.
Mr. Bride. To the first call.
Senator Smith. Whereupon the CaUfomian got into communi-
cation with the Balticf
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you picked up the message from the Cali-
fomian to the Balticf
868 '' TITANIC DISASTER
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Bride. I should say it would be about 20 minutes after the
Califamian had called me with the report.
Senator Smith. What did that message say ?
Mr. Bride. It stated, as far as I can recollect it, that the Calif omian
had just passed three large icebergs, and he gave the latitude and
longitude.
Senator Smith. Of liis ship ?
Mr. Bride. Of the CWi/omian, when she passed the icebergs.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect the position of the CcAifornianf
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When you received that message did you take it
to the bridge ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To whom did you deliver it ?
Mr. Bride. To the officer on watch, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know who that officer was ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Was it Mr. Murdock ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say who it was.
Senator Smith. Was it the captain ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You are positive you delivered it ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In person ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Who took it, PhUlips or yourself ?
Mr. Bride. I took it myself, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any other messages on Sunday
warning the Titanic of ice ?
Mr. Bride. Not to m^ knowledge, sir.
Senator Smith. I beheve you do not recollect having received
anvthing from the AmeriTcaf
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the captain was on the
bridge when you delivered that message ?
Mr. Bride. I did not see him on the bridge when I delivered that
message.
Senator Smith. Now let us fix exactJv the first message you
received after you sent out your first C. Q. D. call. What was the
first reply you received ?
Mr. Bride. The first reply we received was from the Frankfurt.
Senator Smith. Of the North German IJoyd Line ?
Mr. Bride. I could not say what company she belonged to.
Senator Smith. Was that an immediate reply?
Mr. Bride. I should think so, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the Frankfurt give her position ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You are positive of that?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you or did Mr. Phillips take the Frankfurt
message ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips.
<( r^r^^^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 869
Senator Smith. Were you present at the time ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What was the reply ?
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips told me to write in the log the result of the
replies as he told me, and the reply was, '*0. K. Stand by.'' That
%vas the reply the Frankfurt gave to our C. Q. D. and position.
Senator Smith. What is the meaning of ''Stand by" ?
Mr. Bride. It tells you that he has not finished corresponding
with vou.
^ MM _
Senator Smith. Did you infer from that that he had not enough
information ?
Mr. Bride. You infer from '*Stand by" that he is going to report,
or he is getting something for you, ana he will call you again in a
minute or so.
Senator Smith. Does that mean, ''Hold on; I will talk with you
later"?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did he talk with you later ?
Mr, Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator SMrrn. What did he say ?
Mr. Bride. He said: '*What is the matter?"
Senator Smith. And that is all. I do not think I shall ask you to
repeat what you said to him. You do not wish to change it, as I
understand. You did not hear from him again.
What ship did you next hear from ?
Mr. Bride. The Carpathian sir.
Senator Smith. How long after this last message from the Franks
furtf
Mr. Bride. Mr. Phillips just called "C. Q. D.," and gave our posi-
tion and the Carpathia responded immediately.
Senator Smith. At that time you did not know, and you do not
know now, how far the FranJrfurt was from you ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the Carpathia give her position ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. With the first response to the C. Q. D. ?
Mr. Brid^. No, sir; we waited aoout two minutes for the Car-
pathia^s position.
Senator Smith. What did the Carpathia say in response to the
C. O. D. call?
ilr. Bride. Mr. Phillips told her we were sinking fast, and to
report it.
Senator Smith. Wlien the Carpathia replied to this, what did she
do ? Did she give you her position ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Any thing further ?
Mr. Bride. She said she was coming to our assistance full speed,
or words to that effect.
Senator Smith. After that did you have any communication with
anv other ship ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Except the Carpathia?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; with the Olymvic and the Baltic.
Senator Smfth. I believe you said tliey gave you their positions ?
870 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I have forgotten whether you recalled them or not.
Mr. Bride. I do not recall them.
Senator Smith. At that time did you know, or did 3'^ou have any
means of knowing, or were you advised by the captain or anyone else,
which one of these ships was in closest proximity to the Titanu:f
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. We were told that the Carpathia was the
nearer; but the captain did not express any opinion on the Franlcfurt.
because he had not got their position. It was Mr. Philhps who ex-
pressed the opinion that the FranTcfurt was nearer, and he was
judging by the relative strength of the signals.
^nator Smith. How do you account for the fact that the Titanic
was not in communication with the Califomian after about 5 o'clo<'k
Sunday afternoon ?
Mr. Bride. The Titanic had not been in communication with the
Califomian because there was no necessity for it.
Senator Smith. How do vou account for the fact that the Cali-
fomian did not receive the C. Q. D. call?
Mr. Bride. The operator might not have been on watch.
Senator Smith. If the operator had been on watch on the Cktli-
fomian, and the Califomian was only 19 miles away, and your C. Q. D.
call had been received, the entire situation might have been different ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, did you receive, or did Mr. Phillips to
your knowledge receive, a wireless message from the Califomian at
11.15, ship's time, or about 10 o'clock New York time, Sunday
evening, saying "Engines stopped. We are surrounded by ice"?
Now, think hard on tliat, because I want to know whether you took
that message.
Mr. Bride. Mr. PhilUps was on watch at the time.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he received a message of that
kmd?
Mr. Bride. He did not say so, sir.
Senator Smith. And you have no means of knowing ?
The witness did not answer.
Senator Fletcher. What do you mean by saying there was no
necessity for keeping in communication with the Califorriianf
Mr. Bride. If the Califomian had anything for us he would call us,
or if we had anything for the Califomian we would call him; and there
was no necessity for us to call the Califomian unless we had business
with him, or vice versa, because it would then interrupt other traffic.
Senator Fletcher. The Califomian said he was endeavoring to
communicate with you and you stopped him and said he was jam-
ming. Do you know about that ?
Mr. Bride. No; the chances are he might have been jamming dur-
ing the evening, when the senior operator was working Cape Race.
Senator Fletcher. But you can not say that you on the Titanic
knew of all that he was endeavoring to communicate ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether when this message or com-
munication was attempted at 10 o'clock, New York time, Sunday
night, saying that the engines had stopped and they were surroundetl
by ice, tne Califomian operator was told *'Keep out; am working
Cape Race"?
it . ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 871
Mr. Bride. I heard nothing about it at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Would Mr. Phillips have made a memorandum of
such a message if he had received it?
Mr. Bride. He would have if the Califomian had persisted in
sending it.
Senator Smith. Did you ever see any record of that kind ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. The records of the Titanic are all lost ?
Mr. Bride. I had a glance at the log for that evening as I was
writing it up at the time of the disaster.
Senator Smith. At the time of the disaster?
^ Mr. Bride. But I can not recollect any communication with the
Califomian having been noted down.
Senator Smith. After 5 o'clock ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. The Califomian's log shows that they sent thfit
message to the Titanic at 11.15 ship's time, or 10 o'clock New York
time.
Mr. Bride. I mav have overlooked it.
Senator Smith. If you had heard such a message as that you would
have regarded it as important, would you not ?
Mr. !dride. I should have taken it myself; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you working with Cape Race, or was Phil-
lips, to your knowledge, just before the collision with the icebei^ ?
Mr. Bride. As far as I recollect PhiUips had finished working with
Cape Race 10 minutes before the collision ^th the iceberg. He
made mention of the fact when I turned out.
Senator Smith. I think you told me the other dav in New York
the time that elapsed after the collision or impact before you sent
the C. Q. D. call out. I want to be sure I have it, so I am asking it
again.
Mr. Bride. I could not call it to mind now, sir.
Senator Smith. What is your best recollection ?
Mr. Bride. Mv best recollection would be somewhere in the vicinitv
of 10 minutes, sir, because Mr. Phillips and I were discussing one or
two things before the captain came and told us to call for assistance.
Senator Smith. What were you discussing ?
Mr. Bride. We were discussmg what Mr. Phillips thought had hap-
pened to the ship and the working of Cape Race.
Senator Smith. Did the captain come personaDy ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. To the operating room ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he told you or told Phillips to send this caD
out?
Mr. Bride. He told Phillips to send the call out.
Senator Smith. And he came frequently to your operating room
after that and urged you to send out the U. Q. D. agam ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect the captain of the Carpathia tes-
tifying the other day that he got your C. Q. D. call at 10.45, New York
time?
Mr. Bride. I did not hear that, sir.
872 TITANIC DISA8TBE.
Senator Smith. Assuming that you got into immediate communi-
cation with the Carpaihia when you sent out your C. Q. D. call, the
message would have been completed in an inst&nt, would it not ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. If this colUsion occurred at 9.50, New York time,
and the Carpathia received your C. Q. D. call at 10.25, New York time,
considerable time had elapsed between the time you sent out your call
and the time it was received ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How do you account for that ?
Mr. Bride. Maybe it was a difference between the clocks of the
two ships.
Senator Smith. You mean that the time may have been set back
on one and not on the other ?
Mr. Bride. That is New York time you are talking about?
Senator Smith. I am talking about New York time.
Mr. Bride. You see, on these ships each operator has a clock for the
purpose of keeping New York time and Greenwich time on the way
across.
Senator Smith. I will read what the captain says, itnd see if we can
work this out.
Capt. Rostron said:
At 12.35 a. m. on Monday I was informed of the urgent distreas signal from the
Titanic.
Question. By whom?
Capt. Rostron. By our wireless operator, and also by the first officer. The wireless
operator had taken the message and run with it up to the bridge and gave it to the first
officer, who was in charge, wi9i a junior officer with him, and both ran down the ladder
to my door and called me. I had only just turned in. It was an ui^ent diatress sigo&I
from the Titanic^ re(^uiring immediate assistance, and giving me his position. The
position of tlie TUantc at the time was 41° 46^ north, 50° 14^ west. I can not give you
our correct position .
Question. Did you give the hour?
Capt. Rostron. Yes; 12.35. That was our apparent time. I can give you the New
York time, if you would rather have it.
Question. Yes; please do so.
Capt. Rostron. The New York time at 12.35 was 10.45 p. m., Sunday night.
Immediately on getting the message I gave the order to turn the ehip around, and
immediately I had given that order I asked the operator if he was absolutely sure it
was a distress signal from the Titanic. I asked him twice.
Assuming that the message was received a few moments before it
was handed to the captain — and they seem to liave responded very
promptly — they did not^et your message until 10.45 New York time,
or 12.35 ship's time. Fifty-live minutes elapsed between the time
you say you gave the signal and the time Capt. Rostron says he
received it.
Mr. Bride. There must be a mistake in the time somewhere.
Senator Smith. I wish you would think hard and see if you can
straigliten tluit out in some way. I do not like to leave tliat dis-
crepancy.
Mr. Bride. I have no recollection of the times these various inci-
dents took place, but I can give you a fairly good estimate of the times
between the incidents.
Senator Smith. No; but you have fixed as best you could the inter-
val between the time of the collision and the time the captain came to
your room and told you to send out the C. Q. D. call ?
it «„^. ^,^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTKK. 873
ilr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You have fixed that, to the best of your recollec-
tion, as 10 minutes?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But there is a wide discrepancy. We are all
a^eed as to tlie hour when the collision took place, but there is a
discrepancy of 55 minutes between the time of the collision and the
time the wireless message was received on the Carpathia,
Mr. Bride. That may be due simply to difference in the times kept
by the two sliips.
Senator Smith. When it was 12 o'clock and 35 minutes on board
the Carpathia, it should have been that same time on board the
Titanic, wliich was only 53 miles jiway.
1x4 me refresh your recollection a little. The captain of the
Mount Temple, who broup:ht his wireless records here, says that the
Mount Temple received the C. Q. D. call at 10.25, New York time,
and the Mount Temple was further away from the Titanic than the
Carpathia, Then I think Cape Race received the C. Q. D. call about
the same time the Mount Temple received it. I do not want, if it is
possible to avoid it, to leave this discrepancy of 55 minutes between
tiie time this call was sent out and the thne the Carpathia received it.
Mr. Bride. This discre|>ancy is in the shin's time. I assume. The
(li.ierence is between the time of the two ships and because the New
York time was not taken.
Senator Smith. Let us take ship's time. By ship's time the
Titanic struck the iceberg at what hour?
Mr. Bride. Twentv minutes to 12.
Senator Smith. At 11.40; everybody seems to be agreed on that.
The captain of the Carpathia received the wireless message from the
Titanic at 12.35, sliip's time.
OflScer Boxhall. vou were astir that night, as I recollect it ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And I have an impression that you said in your
testimom^ that theC. Q. D. call was sent out about 35 minutes after
the ship struck?
Mr. Boxhall. Approximately about that time, sir, as near as I
ftm tell. The Carpathians time you mentioned there a few moments
ag^o as 12.35. That was the apparent time, and his clocks had been
altered at midnight. That ship was bound east, and his clocks had
been altered.
Senator Smith. Twenty-five minutes?
Mr. Boxhall. No; it would be more than 25.
Senator Smith. The first time they were changed ?
Mr. Boxhall. His clocks were altered probably about thirty-odd
minutes at midnight that night.
Senator Smith. That may account for this one message. But your
testimony shows that the first C. Q. D. call went out about 35 minutes
minutes after the collision.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bride, did you or did Phillips do any business
between the time of the colUsion and the time when the C. Q. D.
call went out?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
40475— PT 10—12 5
874 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. You just talked between yourselves ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you attempt to do any business with the
wireless ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you take the exact time from a watch i>r
clock when the collision occurred ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have a watch or clock in your room ?
Mr. Bride. We had two clocks, sir.
Senator Smith. Were they both running ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; one was keeping New York time and the other
was keeping ship's time.
Senator Fletcher. The diflFerence was about 1 hour and n.5
minutes ?
Mr. Bride. There was about 2 hours difference between the two.
Senator Smith. Mr. Franklin, in his testimony, says [reading from
a memorandum] :
Received from Associated Press from Cape Race 3.05 a. m., Monday, April 1.5.
10.25 p. m. E. S. T.—
That is ship^s time.
Titanic called C. Q. D.; reported having struck iceberg and required immeiiiaie
assistance. Half an hour afterwards reported that they were sinking by the head.
This time, 10.25, corresponds with the time given by Capt. Rostron,
and by Capt. Moore, of the Mount Templey tiiey having intercepted
this message to Cape Race. In view of all this I would like to know
whether you care to modify or elaborate or change your statement
that the captain came to the operating room 10 minqtes after the
accident, or about that, and told you to put out the C. Q. D. call t
Think it over.
Mr. Bride. I said the captain came to the cabin 10 minutes after
the accident. The captain came to the cabin after I had turned
out 10 minutes, and I turned out after the collision had occurred.
Senator Smith. I assume you were in bed ?
Mr. Brede. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Between the time vou turned out and the time the
captain gave the order to send this message
Mr. Bride. It was just about 10 minutes.
Senator Smith. I do not know that I care to press that matter anv
further. Your statement stands that it was aoout 10 minutes, ft
might have been a little more.
Mr. Bride. As far as I recollect, Mr. Phillips did not tell me when
it was that he felt the ship striking; but to the best of my recollection
it was 10 minutes after I nad turned out that the captain came in and
told us to get assistance.
Senator ^MiTH. I think that is all, Mr. Bride. You may be
excused. Do vou want to return to New York?
Mr. Bride. Yes; I should like to, very much.
Senator Smith. I do not think we have any objection.
Mr. Bride. I would like to say, sir, that there is a rumor bein<r
circulated that Mr. Cottam and I were taking the baseball score^^
when we were returning to New York.
<i . >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 875
Senator Smith. It does not appear in the record.
Mr. Bride. It does not appear in the record, but it is unfounded,
and there is no truth in it at all.
Senator Smith. If you would like to have that appear, we should
be plad to put it in.
Mr. Bride. I should certainly like to have it in.
TESTIMOITT OF JOSEPH GROVES BOZHALL— Becalled.
Senator Smith. You were sworn the other day.
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You were the fourth officer on the Titanic?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
"Senator Smith. Senator Fletcher wants to ask you some questions.
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Boxhall, do you know whether the air
ports on the Titanic were closed at the time of the collision, or before
or just afterwards?
Sir. Boxhall. The air ports ? I do not know what the air ports
are.
Senator Fletcher. The port holes.
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, the port holes ? No; I could not say about that,
sir.
Senator Fletcher. You gave no order to have them closed ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not hear any orders.
wSenator Fletcher. You do not know whether they were closed or
not ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. If they were not closed
Mr. Boxhall. The ports I saw down below in the steerage, when
I first visited down there a few moments after the ship struck, to
the best of my memory were closed. That was in the fore part of
the ship, between the forecastle head and the bridge. Those ports,
to the Dcst of my memory, were closed.
Senator Fletcher. You did not have occasion to observe them
anywhere else ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What was the custom or practice on the ship
as to leaving them open in calm weather ?
Mr. Boxhall. I could not say about that, but in foggy weather
it had to be reported on the bridge whether they were open or closed,
and in bad weather, of course, if there was any sea at all running,
we knew then about the ports, and the orders were given from the
bridge. But in calm weather, I am at a loss to remember what was
<lf>ne about them.
Senator Fletcher. I understood you to say in your direct exam-
ination that you had no knowledge of the presence of icebergs; that
no information of that kind reached you ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not remember any information coming on
Sunday. There were icebergs reported from the caj)tain of the
Tonraine, some time previously; it might have been a couple of days
l)efore. I put their, position on the chart, and found that these
positions were considerably north of the track. In fact, I think
thev were between the northern track and the southern track.
876 TITANIC DISASTER.
Later, more positions came. I did not remember the name especi-
ally, but as soon as I saw the positions as shown at the time of the
meeting of the committee, or when some member of the committee
showed me those positions, with the name of the German boat, the
Amerikaj I recogmzed the positions. So they were evidently those
of the AmeriJca that had been sent. I put those on the chart. I
do not remember that any of them were on the track. To the best
of my knowledge they were all to the northward of the track.
Senator Fletcher. How far north ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I really did not calculate the distance. As soon a<
I saw they were on the north track I did not bother about measuring
the distance.
Senator Fletcher. How far ahead of the ship ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not measure that, either. Of course, it was
before we turned the corner.
Senator Fletcher. Did you have any information at all that
would lead you to appreciate the fact that the Titanic was approach-
ing ice fields, or a position where icebergs were liable to be found ?
Mr. Boxhall. From all the positions of icebergs that I had, of
course I knew that we should be getting close up to those positions
in the early hours of the middle watch, at least. I did not think wo
should be up to any of those positions before midnight that night.
Senator Fletcher. Have you had any experience and know^ledge
as a seafaring man whether or not there is any effect on the tempera-
ture occasioned by the presence of ice fields and icebei^s 1
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I have had quite a lot of experience in field
ice, and to the best of my knowledge I do not think the temperature
indicates anything. I do not think that is anything to go by.
Senator Fletcher. You made no observations ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I have made observations, vears ago; but on
the Titanic the sixth officer or the fifth officer had to note all those
observations, and that is why I did not know the temperatures
recorded.
Senator Fletcher. You did not know the temperature of the air
or of the water that night ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; I happened to remark that it was rather cold,
and somebody said, **It is 31 " ; but I do not know what time it was.
I think it was during my watch from 4 to 6 Sunday evening.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell whether the temperature had
been falling ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes; you could tell that.
Senator Fletcher. Since about what time ?
Mr. Boxhall. I had only gone on deck at 4 o'clock. I went on
deck at 4 Sundav afternoon and was on deck until 6, and I knew it was
considerably colder than it was at noon, when I left the bridge.
Senator Fletcher. Did you get by wireless the positions of the
icebergs that you mentioned ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. And you platted them, you say, on the chart ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Were you careful as to the locations in placing
them on the chart ?
Mr. Boxhall. With regard to the French steamer's positions, they
were of no use to us, because he was considerably nortn of the track.
it 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 877
I put them on the chart; but I remarked to the captain, *'This fellow
ha3 been to the north of the track the whole way." So they were of
no use to us; but they were on the chart, just tne same.
Senator Fletcher. As to the other positions, did anyone help you
in i)latting them ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I showed them to the captain, and I had the
wireless telegram alongside of me and saw that they were quite
correct.
Senator Fletcher. Did anyone check you up or verify your calcu-
lations or assist you in seeing that they were correct?
Mr. BoxHALL. They may nave done so ; I do not know.
Senator Fletcher. What was the course of the Amerikaf
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say whether she was east bound or west-
bound. The Touraine, I think, was eastbound.
Senator Fletcher. Could you say whether the Ameriia was taking
practically the same track as the Titanicf
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I could not say that, either.
Senator Fletcher. Do jom know whether she usually did ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I think those ships keep the track.
Senator Fletcher. The Ameriica, then, was on the same track that
the Titanic was on, practically?
Mr. BoxHALL. That depends on whether she was eastbound or west-
bound.
Senator Fletcher. Assuming she was eastbound, would she be on
the same track ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; she would be to the southward of us.
Senator Fletcher. How much ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know what distance she would be south of
us in that position. Just about the comer. Probably 40 or 50 miles.
You could take it off the chart.
Senator Fletcher. Did she locate the bergs near her ?
Mr. Boxhall. She located the bei^ that she had seen as far as I
know. Someone else may have reported them to her.
Senator Fletcher. If she had seen bergs she must have seen them
south of your track ?
Mr. Boxhall. That is, if she was eastbound.
Senator Fletcher. Yes; if she was eastbound.
Mr. Boxhall. But these bergs I did not put down in positions that
were south of the track, or else I should have made a special note to
the captain about them. If I had seen any bergs on the track or to
the southward of the track I should have done that.
Senator Fletcher. I understood you to say that you saw a steamer
almost ahead of you, or saw a light that night, about the time of the
collision ?
Mr. Boxhall. Shortly afterwards; yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you describe that light ? What was the
character of the light you saw; and did you see more than one?
Mr. Boxhall. At first I saw two masthead lights of a steamer, just
slightly opened, and later she got closer to us, until, eventually, I could^
see her side lights with my naked eye.
Senator Fletcher. Was she approaching you ?
Mr. Boxhall. Evidentlv she was, because I was stopped.
Senator Fletcher. Ana how far awav was she?
Mr. Boxhall. I considered she was about 5 miles away.
878 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. In which direction ?
Mr. Boxii.VLL. She was headed toward us, meeting us.
Senator Fletcher. Was she a little toward your port bow ?
Mr. BoxuALL. Just about half a point off our port bow.
wSenator Flrtciier. And apparently coming toward you ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. And how soon after the colUsion ?
Mr. Boxhall. I can not say about that. It was shortly after the
order was given to clear the boats.
Senator Fletcher. Did you continue to see that steamer?
Mr. Boxhall. I saw that light, saw all the lights, of course, bofon*
I got into my boat, and just before I got into the boat she seemed ?:>
if she had turned around. I saw just one single bright light then,
which I took to be her stern light.
Senator Fletcher. She apparently turned around within 5 mil* >
of you?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Had the rockets then gone off on the Titanic.^
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir. I had been firing off rockets before I saw
her side liglits. I fired off the rockets and then she got so close I
could see her side lights and starboard light.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat was the character of the rockets fired off
on the Titanic, as to colors ?
Mr. Boxhall. Just white stars, bright. I do not know whetJier
they were stars or bright balls. I think they were balls. They were
the regulation distress signals.
Senator Fletcher. Not red 'i
Mr. Boxhall. Oli, no; not red.
Senator Fletcher. Can you say w^hether any rockets fired at nig!it
by a sliip under those conditions form a distress signal, or whether
rockets may be sent up that are not distress signals i
Mr. Boxhall. Some companies have private night signals.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat are they ?
Mr. Boxhall. They are colored as a rule; stars, which you vvn
easily see. These rockets were not throwing stars, they were throw-
ing tails, I remember, and then they burst.
Senator Fletcher. It seems that an officer on the California n
reported to the commander of the Califomian that he had seen .sij^-
nals; but he said they were not distress signals. Do you know
whether or not under the regulations in vc^ue, and according to the
custom at sea, rockets fired, such as the Titanic sent up, w^ould bo
regarded as anything but distress signals ?
Mr. Boxhall. I am hardly in a position to state that, becauso
it is the first time I have seen distress rockets sent off, and I could not
very well judge what they would be like, standing as I was, under-
neath them, firing them m>self. I do not know what they would
look like in the distance.
Senator Fletcher. Have you ever seen any rockets sent off sucli
as you say are private signals ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Under what circumstances i
Mr. Boxhall. Ships passing in the night, signaling to one another.
Senator Fletcher. Were those rockets carried on the Tiiani/: for
the purpose of being used as distress signals i
ft 7 9
TITANIC DISASTEB. 879
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir; exclusively.
Senator Fletcher. They were not carried or supposed to be used
for any other than distress signals ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; no, sir. We did not have any time to use any
of those things.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any other rockets from any other
ships that night?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I did. I saw rockets on the Carpathia.
Senator Fletcher. That was in the morning ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; it was in the morning. It was quite dark.
Senator Fletcher. About what time was that ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know. I think it was a little after 4
o'clock, sometime, when I got on board the Carpathia, It might have
been three-quarters of an hour before.
Senator Fletcher. What sort of a rocket was that ?
Mr. Boxhall. An ordinary rocket. I think it was, so far as I
could see, a distress rocket in answer to ours.
Senator Fletcher. What kind of steamer was that which you saw,
that apparently turned around, as to size and character?
Mr. Boxhall. That is hard to state, but the lights were on masts
which were fairly close together — the masthead lights.
Senator Fletcher. W^hat would that indicate ?
Mr. Boxhall. That the masts were pretty close together. She
might have been a four-mast ship or might have been a three-mast
ship, but she certainly was not a two-mast ship.
oenator Fletcher. Could you form any idea as to her size ?
Mr. Boxhall. No; I coula not.
Senator Fletcher. You know it was a steamer and not a sailing
vessel ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes; she was a steamer, carrying steaming
lights — white lights.
Senator Fletcher. She could not have been a fishing vessel ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was she a s^ing vessel ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; a sailing vessel does not show steaming
lights, or white lights.
Senator Fletcher. I understood you to say all the lifeboats but
one had been lowered when the one you were in was lowered. Was
that correct ?
Mr. Boxhall. There was one boat hanging on the davits on the
port side when I left.
Senator Fletcher. Was that a collapsible boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; it was a lifeboat; No. 4 lifeboat.
Senator Fletcher. Had the collapsible boats all been lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. There was no collapsible boat touched on the port
side when I left. They could not lower them until the boat I was in
got away and left our falls clear.
Senator Fletcher. Then the collapsible boats were all lowered
after the boat in which you left was lowered ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did you say how many went in that boat you
were in ?
Mr. Boxhall. Approximately, I should judge there were between
25 and 30; 26 or 30, as nearly as I can tell.
880 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. That was one of the boats that had a capacity
of 60 or 65 ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. It was not ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; she was one of the smaller boats. She
was an emergency boat.
Senator Fletcher. What they call a sea boat or surf boat ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir; a sea boat.
Senator Fletcher. Could you tell anything about the suction
when you were half a mile away ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No; but I did find there was a little suction just as
I was pulling around the ship. I was lowered on the port side, and
pulled around to the starboard side shortly afterwards, and I found
there was suction then; that the ship was "settling down broadside.
Senator Fletcher. Were you convinced, when you took to the
boat in which you left, that the Titanic would go down ?
Mr. Boxhall. I was quite undecided about it.
Senator Fletcher. Did you say yoq talked with Mr. Ismay on the
bridge about three-quarters of an hour before the Titanic sank ?
Mr. Boxhall. I talked to Mr. Ismay a little while before I left the
ship. I do not know whether it was three-quarters of an hour or not
before the ship sank.
Senator Fletcher. Where was it ?
Mr. Boxhall. I had just fired a distress signal and was going to
the chart room to put the lanyard back in the chart room and go out
again, and Mr. Ismay was standing by the wheelhouse door.
Senator Fletcher. You had not tegun to prepare for lowering
the boats ?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, yes; some of the boats had gone.
Senator Fletcher. Some of the boats had gone ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. What was Mr. Ismay doing there ?
Mr. Boxhall. He just came to the door on the bridge, as nearly as
I can tell; walked up as far as the door. He was not there when I
went to stow the lanyard; at least not when I went to fire the distress
signal a moment before.
Senator Fletcher. That was on the boat deck t
Mr. Boxhall. On the boat deck, yes, sir; on the bridge.
Senator Fletcher. What did he say to you ?
Mr. Boxhall. He asked me why I was not getting the boat away.
Senator Fletcher. What did you reply to that ?
Mr. Boxhall. I told him I haa no orders to get the boat away. I
said the crew were ready and people were getting in the boat.
Senator Fletcher. What did you do then ?
Mr. Boxhall. I went on with my work.
Senator Fletcher. Did you proceed then to get the boats away,
and get them ready ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; the chief officer got that boat ready, and it
was just Teddy to lower when the captain told me to get in her; that Fs,
they had just started to lower when the captain told me to get in her.
Senator Fletcher. The captain told you what ?
Mr. Boxhall. I think they were either iust starting to lower or I
had heard them sing out *' Lower away," wnen the captain told me to
get in the boat. I did not load it. The chief officer loaded it and
superintended the lowering.
tt • 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 881
Senator Fletcher. You did not assist in loading any of the boats ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I was there some little time before triat; I can not
say what boat it was that I was assisting in clearing away, and I can
not say what boats they were, but they were on the port side.
Senator Fletcher. Did you assist in lowering the boat in which
you went away, that the chief officer told you to get into?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir. He did not tell me to get into that boat.
Senator Fletcher. Capt. Smith did ?
Mr. Boxhall. Capt. Smith did.
Senator Fletcher. Where was he at that time ?
Mr. Boxhall. He was standing- up on the boat deck, just by the
bridge.
Senator Fletcher. Where ?
Mr. Boxhall. Alongside of the fiddley; alongside the officers'
house.
Senator Fletcher. And not far from boat No. 4 ?
Mr. Boxhall. Right abreast of No. 2 boat.
Senator Fletcher. No. 2 boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Was Mr. Ismay there, too ?
Mr. Boxhall. I did not notice Mr. Ismay there.
Senator Fletcher. Had not the captain previously given the com-
mand to get the boats away before Mr. Ismay told you about that ?
Mr. Boxhall. He may have done so, but I did not hear it.
Senator Fletcher, ffow many of the crew went in that boat in
which you left ?
Mr. Boxhall. One steward, one cook, a sailor, and myself.
Senator Fletcher. The captain wanted you to go in order to have
some one in charge of the boat, to be sure tliat some one could use the
oars ? Was that the idea ?
Mr. Boxhall. Probably.
Senator Fletcher. Di3 he ask for anybody who could row to get
in the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Did the captain ask ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes.
Mr. Boxhall. No; I did not hear him.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the captain after that ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sirj not after I was lowered away.
Senator Fletcher. Did vou see Mr. Ismav after that ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not until he came up alongside of the boat I was
in, alongside of the Carpathia; when his boat pulled up alongside.
I was passing people out of one of the other boats. That is the first
time r saw him afterwards.
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Ismay was in the collapsible boat, was
he not ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know which one ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know, sir. There was no collapsible boat
away from the ship when I left, unless the one on the starboard side
had gone away. I can not remember whether she had gone away or
not. There was none on the port side.
Senator Fletcher. After you got in the water did you see the
light from this steamer that you had seen previously ?
882 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I saw it for a little while and then lost it.
When I pulled around the ship I could not see it any more, and did
not see it any more.
Senator Fletcher. Apparently that ship came within 4 or 5 miles
of the Titanic, and then turned and went away in what direction,
westward or southward ?
ilr. BoxHALL. I do not know whether it was south west ward. I
should say it was westerly.
Senator Fletcher. In a westerly direction ; almost in the direction
in which she had come ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Smith. Mr. Boxhall, you saw this ship with the light ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you took the rockets and fired them, to signal
to it ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. We have been figuring the distance the Califomian
was away from the Titanic, and from the i)ositions given we have con-
cluded— that is, we have evidence to support the theory — that the
Califomian was but 14 miles distant from the Titanic, Do vou think
that under those circumstances you could have seen the Califomian?
^fr. Boxhall. I do not know, sir. I should not think so.
Senator Smith. You should not?
Mr. Boxhall. No. Five miles is the tUstanco the British Board
of Trade requires masthead lights to show — that is, the white steam-
ing lights of the steamer — but we know that they can be seen farther
on such a clear night as that.
Senator Smith. Suppose the Califomian, 14 miles away, had been
firing rockets for you and you had been on the bridge or on the boat
deck, do you think you could have seen the rockets?
Mr. Boxhall. Not at 14 miles; I should not think so.
Senator Smith. You have had 13 years' experience?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes. sir.
Senator Smith. In na\ngation ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You have spent 12 months in a training school ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. At the risk of invading a field with which neither
one of us may be familiar, I want to ask you about the water-tight
compartments of the Titanic, Are you familiar with them?
^Ir. Boxhall. Yes, sir. I did not go down in the water-tight com-
artments of the Titanic, or view the electrical appliances domi
elow.
Senator Smith. Were you familiar with the water-tight compart-
ments above ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you been in them?
Mr. Boxhall. I have walked through them, sir.
Senator Smith. On which deck or decks were they located ?
Mr. Boxhall. They were located on pretty nearly every deck, I
should think, from what I remember. I can not say the liighest deck
where there were water-tight compartments. I did not take par-
ticular notice of that.
I
i( 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 883
Senator Smith. Can you tell to what decks the water-tight bulk-
heads extended ?
Mr. BoxiiALL. There were water-ti^^ht doors on E deck; I know
that.
Senator Smith. On A deck ?
Mr. BoxiiALL. On E deck.
Senator Smith. Assuming that the water-tight bulklieads extendeil
to the upper or E deck, were there hatches on E deck ?
Mr. BoxHALL. There were water-tight doors on D deck.
Senator Smith. V^ere they fitted with water-tight covers or doors ^
Mr. BoxHALL. The door, sir, is simply an iron door with clamps
on it on both sides.
Senator Smith. That could not be sealed ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; you can seal that door from either side.
The clamps work right through the door.
Senator Smith. I am talking about the hatches. Are you talking
about the hatches?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; I am talking about tlie doors.
Senator Smith. Were the hatches on E deck fitted with water-tight
covers.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; but not to keep out a rush of water like this.
They wouhl only keep out the
Senator Smith (interposing). Deck water?
Mr. BoxHALL. The deck water that would wash over the deck.
Senator Smith. They were not intended to resist the sea?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not water with a pressure; they were not intended
to resist that. They were not intended to resist pressure from under-
neath.
Senator Smith. They were fitted with coamings, in the language
of the sea ^
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And not with a water-tight covert
Mr. BoxiiALL. Yes, there is ft water-tight cover just to prevent
tlie sea going down. There are wooden hatches on the toj) beams
instead of the coamings; wooden hatches laid across the beams, and
after the hatches are put on the water tight covers are spreail over.
Senator Smith. Then you said you went down in the mail room I
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And saw the water coming in ?
Mr. Boxhall. Xo, I did not see water coming in. I said I could
hear the water coming in.
Senator Smith. Where did you explain you saw the water coming
in the mail room?
Mr. Boxhall. I was standing in the sorting room, and the water
was just then within two feet of this deck I was standing on. I
could see it through the oi)ening in the staircase which led down to
t he lower place.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there was any way of scal-
ing the hatch to the mail room to keej) the water from coming onto
E deck?
Mr. Boxhall. Xo, I do not know, sir.
Senator Smith. You did not see anything of that kind i
Mr. Boxhall. Xo, sir.
Senator Smith. You have heard some witnesses testify that tlieii^
was water on E deck ?
884 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. No; I have not heard that, sir.
Senator Smith. This Englishman who was on the stand first this
afternoon said there was water on A deck.
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; but he left the ship after I did, according to
his evidence.
Senator Smith. You heard no testimony, then, that the water wa>
on E deck ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator SMrrH. You left before there was water on E deck ?
Mr. BoxHALL. There mav have been water on E deck before I loft .
Senator Smith. But you did not see it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You do not know how it got there ?
Mr. Boxhall. I know how it would get there. It would come
up through this hole that was probably underneath the mail room.
Senator Smith. Come up through the boat ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. To E deck ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. These water-tight compartments are water tight
at the bottom ?
Mr. Boxhall. They are water tight as far as they extend, sir.
Senator Smith. They are water tight at the sides ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Are they water tight at the ceiling?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir.
Senator SMrrn. If they had been water tight at the ceiling, would
they still be afloat?
Mr. Boxhall. Not in that particular case, because there were
evidently three or four of the water-tight compartments ripped up.
They were aU damaged or else the ship would not have gone ao^Ti.
Senator Smith. There seems to be a great deal of confusion about
the water-tight compartments, and I have innumerable letters and
telegrams asKing that these compartments be searched by the Navy
Department. The only water-tight compartments that I have ever
seen were on the Baltic, and I was shown about the water-tight com-
partments by the late captain of the TitaniCj about six years ago, so
that I have not very much knowledge about them except from what
I saw then. But to be water-tight the ceiline should be able to
resist the water as well as any other part of the water-tight com-
partment, should it not ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; it should; but if the ship is going to float
after she has been damaged* the water in that one compartment will
not rise any higher than the level of the sea, so there is no strain on
the ceiling, or there is probably no strain on the ceiling.
Senator Smith. I think you have given me the information I was
seeking. The reason why the upper part of the water-tight compart-
ment is not so constructed as to resist the water is because some
means of ingress and egress must be left or provided ?
Mr. Boxhall. That is so.
Senator Smith. In the case of the water-tight compartments on the
Titanic there were staircases ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Leading out of these water-tight compartments ?
(( ^«r». ,, 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 885
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Suppose the passengers with no lifeboats and no
lights in sight were confronted with the alternative of leaping into
the open sea or inclosing themselves in these compartments to die
there, is there any means by which they could get into these com-
j^artments themselves ?
Mr. BoxiiALL. Yes; probably if they went down to the cabin they
might get into one of these compartments.
Senator Bourne. Are you familiar with the boiler room ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Are you familiar with the coal bunkers beside
the boilers, between the boilers and the skin of the ship ?
Mr. BoxiiALL. No, sir; I was not down there in tnat ship.
Senator Bourne. You have no knowledge appertaining to that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. None at all.
Senator Newlands. IIow about the ice in the locality in which you
plare<i it on the chart? Was it likely to drift; and if so, in what
particular direction ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; we should expect it to drift to the northward
and to the eastward.
Senator Newlands. And not toward the south?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not to the southward, as a rule; not in the Gulf
Stream.
Senator Newlands. So tliat, as you proceeded along the track
after you had charted this ice, your assumption would be that the
ice would drift farther away from your track rather than drift
toward it?
Mr. BoxHALL. More to the northward and eastward ; yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Mr. Boxhall, you are a practical navigator, as 1
understand?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. Would it be feasible and desirable to have a map
in the chart room, and to note each day the information that you
might acquire by wireless from other ships as to their location?
Would that be an advantage in any way in navigation ?
Mr. Boxhall. We do that.
Senator Bourne. That is not.ed on the map, as it is ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir; on the chart in the officers' chart room and
on the chart in the captain's chart room.
Senator Bourne. You keep your record, then, both of your own
position and the position of other ships with which you have been in
communication by wireless ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. IIow often are those records put down ?
Mr. Boxhall. Do you mean do we put down on the chart the
positions of the ships from which we receive messages?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
Mr. Boxhall. No; we do not put their positions on the chart. If
they report derelicts, or wreckage, or anything like that, we plait
those positions on the chart.
Senator Bourne. Would it not bring about a better correlation
between you and other ships in that vicinity if you noted on the chart
the relative positions, in conjunction with your own, at the time you
noted your own position ?
886 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. They do not always give their positions.
Senator Bourne. They do not ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Would it be any benefit to navigation if they
were required to do so ?
Mr. BoxnALL. A few of them give their positions. It is very
handy.
i^enator Bourne. It is perfectly practical, is it ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Oh, yes; certainly.
Senator Bourne. And might be, and in your judgment would he.
a benefit to navigation if required ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Mr. Boxhall, you seem to be the one upon whom
w^e must rely to give the difference between ship's time and New York
time; or, rather, to give ship's time and give the New York lime
when this accident occurred.
Mr. Boxhall. At 11. 46 p. m., slup's time, it was 10.13 Washington
time, or New York time.
Senator Smith. And that was the time of the impact ?
Mr. Boxhall. There is a question about that. Some sav 11.45.
and some say 11.43. I myself did not note it exactly, but that is as
near as I can toll. I reckon it was about 11.45.
TESTIM0V7 OF HABOLD T. COTTAM— Recalled.
Senator Smith. Mr. Cottam, you have been sworn. I desire to ask
you one question: When you were on the stand you had not received
any compensation for your article in the New York Times. Have you
since received your pay for it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How much did you get ?
Mr. Cottam. $750.
Senator Smith. On the way from the place where the Titanic sank
to New York did you receive a message from anyone, or any company,
saying, '^ Kill message containing Titanic story" ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I received no message to that effect.
Senator Bourne. What was the power of the machine on your
boat — 1 kilowatt?
Mr. Cottam. It varied according to the ship's mains. The shin's
mains ran about 95 volts. I should say it would be about one-half to
three-quarters of a kilowatt.
Senator Bourne. What wave length were you using?
Mr. Cottam. Six hundred meters; the standard. I was not usin<;
a wave length at all most of the time. It was unattuned — ^plain aerial.
Senator Bourne. What range would your power have at night and
wliat range in the daytime ?
Mr. CoiTAM. I could not say. During the day I think I would be
sure of about 250 miles. At night, I could not say. It all depends on
circumstances. *
Senator Bourne. Did you catch any messages from the Cape Cod
station ?
Mr. Cottam. Do you ask if I received them?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
Mr. CorrAM. Oh, yes.
" TITANIC ^' DISASTER. 887
Senator Bourne. You had no difficulty in taking them ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, no. We can receive from any distance provided
the transmitting station has the power to transmit the message to us;
it does not matter where we are.
Senator Bourne. What wave length were they using; 1,600?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know what the wave length is in the Cape Cod
station. It is something high. It would be about 1,600, 1 should say.
Senator Bourne. Were tney clear and distinct ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, yes; thev were plain.
Senator Bourne. You had no difficulty, while those messages were
in the air, in gettmg the messages from the Titanic at the same time ?
Mr. CoTTAM. You can not receive a message with the 600-meter
wave length and another with the 1,600-meter wave length at the same
time.
Senator Bourne. That is what I understood. During the entire
time when you were getting the Titanic' 8 messages the Cape Cod sta-
tion was silent, was it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; it was silent. There was an interval between
the first sending and the repeat. It is all sent twice. There was an
interval between the two.
Senator Bourne. Do \ou know whether or not it is customar>' for
the Cape Cod station to take one hour out of four for the sending of
]>rivate dispatches ; and if so, does that kill the opportunity of distress
signals being taken during that period ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, yes; distress signals from ships; yes.
Senator Bourne. Thev could not be taken at the same time that
the press messages were being sent out by the Cape Cod station, pro-
vided they were using the 1,600-meter wave length, could they?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any messages from Mr. Ismay for
transmittal while he was aboard the Uarpathiaf
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I>id you receive messages from him addressed to
his office in Liverpool or London, or his office in New York ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did }*ou transmit them ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. When did you receive those from him ?
Mr. Cottam. I was working for the shipping company, handhng
official messages all the time. I can not remember; I have no record
of the time or dates.
Senator Smith. You were working for the White Star Co ?
Mr. Cottam. And the Cunard Co.
Senator Smith. All the time ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you sent frequent messages from Ismay to his
Liverpool office ? How did \*ou send them to his Liverpool office ?
Mr. Cottam. They came via one of the American land stations;
the Siasconset station or the Sagaponac station.
Senator Smith. Did you send any messages from him to Montreal
via Cape Race ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir. I was not in touch with Cape Race at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect sending any messages from him
through any other shi]> to London or Liverpool ?
4i ^ . ^^,^ ff
888 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not remember, sir; I had too many.
Senator Smith. You had many from him ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I had a good many, and I had other Cunard messages :
and when I was not busy with those, I was on passenger traffic.
Senator Smith. These messages from Ismay to Liverpool were, of
course, not sent direct from the Carpathia to Liverpool. They must
have been sent to some coast station or to some other ship station ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Smith. To what other ship station, if any, do you rcn^ull
having transmitted any messages from her?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember that I transmitted anv through
any other ship. Tt is not customary to put official news through any
other ship at all, other than on the same line.
Senator Smith. And you were not in communication with the Olym-
pic that day at all ?
Mr. CoTTAxM. The day of the wreck?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Cottam. I was on the following day, Momhiy.
Senator Smith. Did you send any messages from Mr. Ismay to the
Olympic on Monday ?
Mr. Cottam. I guess I did. I do not remember it.
Senator Smith. I want you to remember. I want you to tell just
what you remember.
Mr. Cottam. I can not remetnber having sent any, but I believe
there were one or two.
Senator Smith. Were they addressed to Liverpool ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember, sir, how the messages went at
all.
Senator Smith. When did you first hear from Mr. Marconi on
Monday ?
Mr. Cottam. On Monday ? I did not hear from Mr. Marconi.
Senator Smith. When did you receive your first message from Mr.
Ismay ?
Mr. Cottam. From Mr. Ismay? I can not remember how I dealt
with the traffic at all. I have no record of it here, or anything.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whether you received a message
for Mr. Ismay from Mr. Franklin on Monday, or from "Islefrank"
on Monday ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not suppose I did on Monday, but I do not
remember. I do not suppose so, because I was not in touch with any
coast station.
Senator Smith. Did you on Tuesday ?
\.T, Cottam. I mav have done so, but I can not remember anything
at all about the traffic, sir.
Senator Smith. You say you were working for the company all the
while. Did you give preference to White Star business and Cunard
business ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; all the time. Official traffic before any-
thing else.
Senator Smith. Official traffic before everything; and you regarded
the White Star communications as official ?
YiT, Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you knew that Cunard messages were official i
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
*' TITANIC " DISASTER. 889
Senator Smith. In that event, messages from passengers addressed
to New York or other points would have to wait until ^ese official
messages were out of the way ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that was the practice vou followed from the
time of the accident, from the time you reachecf the Titanic^ 8 position,
until you reached New York ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; that is the usual course.
Senator Smith. And during that time you did have numerous com-
munications for the officers of both companies ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And messages were sent by Mr. Ismay ? Did he
send them over his name, '* Ismay,*' or did he send them over a code
name, "Yamsi"?
Mr. Cottam. ''Yamsi."
Senator Smith. All messages he sent were signed "Yamsi"?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. How were the messages sent that he received?
Were they sent to " Yamsi" ?
Mr. Cottam. I think they were to " Ismay.*' I can not remember.
Senator Smith. To Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. Addressed to Ismay?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In care of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. And signed "Franklin" ?
Mr. Cottam. '^Islofrank," I think.
Senator Smith. Do you remember what those messages were
about t
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Do you remember whetlier there was any thing
about insurance in them ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I do not believe there was anything about
insurance.
Senator Smith. Was there anything about Lloyd's in them ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not to my knowledge.
Senator Smith. Were any messages sent to Lloyd's ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or received from IJoyd's, addressed to Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I do not tliink so.
Senator Smith. I want you to be as positive as you can. I would
like to have you think it over carefully and answer as definitely as
vou are able to answer.
Mr. Cottam. I am doing so. I have no record of the traffic at all.
I was so busy at the time that I canjiot remember what happened,
at ail.
Senator Smith. Wliat time on Monday did Mr. Ismay send a mes-
sage to "Islefrank" or " Yamsi/' telling of the loss of the Titanic'i
Mr. Cottam. I do not believe there was one sent from Mr. Ismay
on Monday.
Senator Smith. You do not recall any ?
Mr. Cottam. No; because I was not in touch with land.
40475— PT 10—12 6
890 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Were you in touch with the CcUifomian that day ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you in toucli with Boston ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you transmit any messages through the
(Mifornian to land ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Smith. Or to other ships for land ?
Mr. Cottam. Some went through the Minnewa^Jca and some
through the Olympic; but I guess that was on Monday afternoon.
Senator Smith. On Monday afternoon you recollect transmitting
' some messages through the Olympic?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How about the Balticf
Mr. Cottam. The Baltic was out of touch.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any telegrams from Mr. Marconi
asking "Why can we not get news of this disaster? Ask captain."
Mr. Cottam. I remember some message to that effect, but I can not
remember when it was received.
Senator Smith. Did you answer it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Why not ?
Mr. Cottam. Because I had plenty of other work besides; official
traffic and for the passengers.
Senator Smith. But this was the head of your company.
Mr. Cottam. That was the captain's orders. I can not go beyond
the captain's orders.
Senator Smith. You took your orders from the captain ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes. '
Senator Smith. Do you mean that the captain told you not to send
the news to Mr. Marconi t
Afa". Cottam. He did not tell me that. He said, "Do not deal with
anvthing otherwise than official traffic and passengers' messages."
Senator Smith. Did you tell him that this telegram was from Mr.
Marconi, the president of your company ?
Mr. Cottam. I beUeve I did.
Senator Smith. What did he say to that ?
Mr. Cottam. He told me the same reply as indicated.
Senator Smith. Then the captain relused you permission to send
messages in reply to Mr. Marconi and Mr. Sammis ? Do you wish to
be understood as saying that ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes; to that effect.
Senator Smith. You did not feel at liberty to transmit any informa-
tion to the head office of your own company ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. On Monday ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you ever transmit any information to the head
office of your own company ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; not any, at all. There was no information at
all
Senator Smith. You did not communicate any information to them,
at all ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; I did not get any news ashore, at all.
" TITANIC " DISASTER. 891
Senator Smith. But you did receive the telegram signed by Mr.
Sanunis?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know by whom it was signed. I remember
something about a message to that effect, but i do not remember
anything about it.
Senator Smith. You received a telegram saying ''Keep your mouth
shut; it has been all arranged; you are going to get money in four
figures," or words to that effect?
Mr. CoTTAM. I did not receive that.
Senator Sboth. Who did ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Bride, sir.
Senator Smith. You talked it over with Bride ?
Mr. CottaM. I talked what over with Bride ?
Senator Smith. This message.
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That had the effect of quieting you somewhat,
did it not ?
Mr. Cottam. Certainly.
Senator Smith. That is all.
Senator Newlands. When did you first have the expectation
that you would receive money for your story from the newBpapers ?
Mr. Cottam. I think either when we were docking or when we were
in dock.
Senator Newlands. At New York?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; at New York.
Senator Newlands. Did you have any expectation prior to that
time of receiving such money ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. And did your expectation prevent you from
giving any information by wireless ?
Mr. Cottam. No.
Senator Newlands. What did you say in answer to that ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Newlands. You were in the dock when you received
this wireless message ?
Mr. Cottam. I was just^oing through as Bride took it, and I read
it as he was writing it down.
Senator Newlands. Were the passengers landing at that time ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes; I believe they were.
Senator Newlands. That is all.
Senator Fletcher. Had you received any intimation before that
that it was well for you to keep to yourself the news about the Titanic
disaster?
Mr. Cottam. No. It would not have made any difference; it would
not have had any effect, in any case, because the captain's order was
that no traffic Was to go through and no message was to be executed
otherwise than official messages and passengers' traffic. I had more
than I could handle with the passengers' traffic without this other
stuff.
Senator Fletcher. You mean that you were so occupied with
official messages and passengers' traffic that you could not answer
an inquiry regarding the disaster ?
Mr. Cottam. No; I could not.
it -»».«*.^ 9f
892 . TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Fletcher. Do you make a distinction between official
messages and accounts of dfisasters ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Certainly'.
Senator Fletcher. When you say you had official business to look
after, does that official business cover the Titanic disaster, or have any-
thing to do with it ?
Mr. CoTTAM. It would bear on the subject, certainly; but of course
I was informing the Cunard and the White Star of the disaster, I guess.
Senator Newlands. Prior to that time you had been giving, over
the wireless, lists of the survivors, had you not?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, yes.
Senator Fletcher. Do you call that official business*?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Then ' 'official business," which had precedence,
was business which gave such an account as the captain saw fit to
send forth regarding all he knew about the disaster, was it ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Do you remember telling him about this mes-
sage received from Mr. Sanamis and Mr. Ismay ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir; I informed him of it. I do not know w^hich
one it was. I do not know which message it was. It was the only
one, I believe, from the Marconi Co. No; I do remember something
about one message — asking the captain about it.
Senator Fletcher. You informed him of the only one that you
received, that you remember ?
Mr. Cottam. I did. The captain told me to ignore the me^ssages
altogether.
Senator Fletcher. I mean regarding news of the disaster.
Mr. Cottam. Yes. When I docked in New York there was one
wireless station that had between 150 and 200 messages for me that
I had not time to take on the way along.
Senator Newlands. You were crowded with the business of receiv-
ing and sending messages on official and passengers' business ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. How much time was taken up by the passen-
gers' traffic?
Mr. Cottam. All the time I had to spare when I was not deiiUng
with official traffic.
Senator Fletcher. You really had more than you could do, with
both together ?
Mr. Cottam. Oh, yes; I could not cope with the work at all.
Senator Fletcher. Can you tell how many messages you sent off ?
Mr. Cottam. More than 500.
Senator Fletcher. Wliat proportion of those would be official
business and what proportion would be passengers' business.
Mr. Cottam. I ao not know; about naif and half, I should say.
All the passengers' names had to go and the survivors' names.
Senator Fletcher. The apparatus was in good working condition
all the while ?
Mr. Cottam. I can not say it was in good condition, because the
weather was not good. The atmosphere at that time was in a static
condition. There was rain about all the time; It was wet, foul
weather all the time.
ft «,,,«. ^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEE.. 893
Senator Fletcher. Did that interfere with the transmission of
messages ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, yes.
Senator Fletcher. To what extent?
Mr. Gottam. It caused a leak — it caused a leak through the insu-
lators when they were wet.
Senator Fletcher. That made it necessary to repeat often ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I did repeat everything; I never send a telegram
without repeating it.
Senator Fletcher. Is it customary to repeat every message ?
Mr. CoTTAM. It all depends on the circumstances. If there is a
lot of static about, of course you would.
Senator Fletcher. What do you mean by "static" ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Atmospheric disturbance; an electrical atmospheric
disturbance, when there is stormy weather about.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Smith. I want to straighten out just a little your replies to
Senator Newlands. Do you know what tmae the Carpathia passed
quarantine ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not.
Senator Smith. Do you know what time you passed Sandy Hook ?
Mr. CoTTAM. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. You passed quarantine at 8.10 that night, and at
8.12 you got the message, "Seagate to Carpathia,^^ which was picked
up by the naval station, and which the Secretary of the Navy has
sent to me. That message says:
Say, old man, Marconi Co. taking good care of you. Keep your mouth shut. Hold
your etory. It is fixed for you bo you will get big money. Now please do your beet
to clear.
Did you take that message ?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember anything about it.
Senator Smith. Do you remember Bride speaking to you about it ?
Mr. Cottam. No, sir; Bride did not speak to me about it.
Senator Smith. You were not at the apparatus when vou landed in
New York ?^
Mr. Cottam. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Bride was there ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. But you left the ship immediately?
. Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And went to the Strand Hotel to meet Mr. Sammis ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you went there because you had a message at
8.30 from Mr. Sammis asking you to come there, did you not ?
Mr. Cottam. I got it, but 1 can not remember the time. It may
have been about 8.30.
Senator Smith. I will give you the time: 8.30 p. m., one hour before
you landed at the Cunard dock, when you got a telegram from Mr.
Sammis saying:
Arranged for your exclusive story for dollars in four figures, Mr. Marconi agreeing.
I do not want any doubt about this matter at all. Mr. Sammis
says that message was sent to you.
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
894 TITANIC DISASTEB,
Senator Smith. And he says that you went to the Strand Hotel.
Mr. CoTTAM. I did.
Senator Smith. At 9 o'clock you got a message, from Seagate to
Carpathia, saymg:
Go to Strand Hoteli 502 West Fourteenth Street, to meet Mr. Marconi.
Is that correct ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes, sir. I did not get three or four messages.
There were only two.
Senator Smith. You know this one; and you got it, did you not?
Mr. Cottam. The one we brought in;, yes.
Senator Smith. The one with tne four figures for the story?
Mr. Cottam. I do not remember that, sir, at all. I do not remem-
ber that one. I remember the one with the number in, to call at the
Strand Hotel.
Senator Smith. That was at 9 o'clock, and then you got another
at 9.33. The ship does not seem to have landed quite at that time.
Mr. Cottam. We were outside the dock an hour or more.
Senator Smith. It takes an hour to run from quarantine, does it
not, 8 miles, the way they run there ?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. If you passed quarantine at 8.10, it would take
until 9.10 to run down to the Cunard pier; so that before your boat
was tied up at the wharf in New York, you did have information from
Mr. Sammis, and you did have this information that I have read to
you before, saying, '^Hold your story."
I do not seek to draw any false deductions from what I am asking
you, nor do I want to press it too hard upon you; but I want the fact
to appear that you received those messages.
Mr. Cottam. I received two, sir, to my knowledge; the one with
''four figures" in it, and the one with the number of the Strand
Hotel.
Senator Smith. The one with ''four figures" in it was sent at 8.30,
and the one with the address of the Strand Hotel was sent at 9 p. m.,
which was 30 minutes before the boat tied up to the wharf?
Mr. Cottam. Yes.
Senator Smith. I have an affidavit which I will read at this point:
APPIDAVrr OP J. W. LEE.
John W. Lee, being; duly sworn, deposes and says as follows:
On the evening of Apnl 18, 1912, I was listening at the Brooklyn station of the
National Electric Signaling Co., and at 8.59 I heard the operator of the Marconi station
at Sea Gate, Long Island, send the following message to the Carpaihia:
''MP A. Personal. Hr. Mge.
"Go to Strand Hotel, 502 West Fourteenth Street, to meet Mr. Marconi.
"Mpamse.*
M P A is the Carpathians call signal, M S E is Sea Gate's, "Hr" stands for "Here's
another, ' ' and is used at the beginning of all messages. ' * Mge " stands for ' ' messafre/'
The Carmthia did not acknowledge receipt of this message, so far as I heard. I am
certain tJtiat this message was sent by Sea Gate and by no other station, for two reasonp
(in addition to the fact that the signature of Sea Gate was used), viz: (I) From my
experience in receiving messages in this vicinity, I have become familiar with the
"tune " or wave length of the Sea Gate station, and that of the station which sent the
above message was the same; (2) the Sea Gate station has a characteristic spark sound;
that is, it has a rising tone at tne beginning of sending and a falling tone at the end.
ii «^-,.^,,^ yy
TITANIC DISASTER. 895
No other station around New York has this peculiarity (which is caused by the opera-
tor's sending while his spark gap is chanpng speed), and since the message above
was sent in mis way, I am certain that it was transmitted from Sea Gate.
John W. Lee,
State of New York, County of KingSj m:
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 27th day of April, A. D. 1912.
Ehil Biele,
Notary Public, Kings County
Senator Newlands. Are we to understand that you received these
two telegrams regarding this story for the newspapers before or after
the arriyal of the Carpathia at the dock ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Apparently, by the time, we could not have arrived'
there. We could not have arrived, by the time of the telegram's
time. I do not remember anythii^ at all about it. I did not know
anything at all about the time. We were starting to get the boats
out before we got near the dock.
Senator Newlands. You started to get the boats out?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; the Titanic' 8 boats.
Senator Bourne. What is the longest distance you have ever been
able to reach with your instrument ?
Mr. CoTTAM. On the Carpathia?
Senator Bourne. Yes.
Mr. CoTTAM. I never took any particular notice, but about 300
miles, I should say.
Senator Bourne. You have been able to reach 800 miles at sea
at night ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Not from the Carpathia.
Senator Bourne. What distance from the Carpathia?
Mr. CoTTAM. About 300 miles.
Senator Bourne. I misunderstood you. What distance have you
ever received from ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I have never taken the exact distance, but you can
receive anj^ distance, providing the transmitting station has power
to transmit.
Senator Bourne. It just depends on the purity of the wave,
the length of the wave, and the p:^\7er, does it?
Mr. CoTTAM. It depends altogether on the power.
Senator Bourne. How many messages do you average on a ship
on a voyage per day, in handling, olllcial and private ?
Mr. Cx)TTAM. On an average, sir, on an ordinary voyage ?
Senator Bourne. Yes; how many a day do you average under
ordinary circumstances ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Sometimes, when there is no communication estab-
lished, of course there are none.
Senator Bourne. On days when you have communication, I mean.
I presume that most of your business is just after leaving a port,
and just before entering another port, is it not?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes.
Senator Bourne. What is the average business then ?
Sir. CoTTAM. I do not know what the average was on the Car-
pathia. I only made the roumi trip on her.
Senator Bourne. That is all the experience you have had ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Oh, no, sir; I have had experience on other ships.
(t . « ff
896 TITANIC DISASTBSE.
Senator Bourne. While on other ships, what has been your ex-
perience ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I can not say. Sometimes there would be very, very
few, and other times there would be a lot, according to the passengers
we had.
Senator Bourne. How long have you been on shift, on duty, con-
tinuously ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I do not know, sir. Twelve hours.
Senator Bourne. Would an eight-hour continuous shift be a
great strain ? Would eight hours ' duty be a ^eat strain on you 1
^, Mr. CoTTAM. It is not a great strain, but it is hard work, i ou have
to do it on coast stations. When you are working on coast stations
vou have to do it.
Senator Bourne. Would six hours on and six hours off be better,
or eight hours on and eight hours off ? Which would you prefer, if
vou had the selection ?
Mr. CoTTAM. I think I would sooner have eight hours on and
eight off.
Senator Bourne. You would rather have eight on and eight off ?
Mr. CoTTAM. Yes; I think so.
Senator Smith. That is all. I think that finishes with the members
of the crew and the officere.
Senator Burton wanted to ask Mr. Boxhall a few questions, but I
do not know of any reason why we should hold the witnesses any
longer. I think we will get through with Mr. Ismay to-morrow, and
if it is not objected to by any members of the committee, I think vou
may arrange to let the members of the crew and the officers go, ^Ir.
Cornelius. I would like from Mr. Lightoller, the ranking officer, the
information that has been especially asked for — the name and home
address of each of these men. If we should care to see them again, or
ask some further questions, we might do so at some later time.
Mr. KiRLiN. That does not mean that you want Mr. Lightoller
back to give that information ?
Senator Smith. I want to know that I am going to get it; that is all.
Mr. KiRLiN. Then we can arrange to let them all go ?
Senator Smith. So far as the committee know, there is no other
course necessary. I did want Senator Burton to see Mr. BoxhaU,
because he asked especially to be permitted to ask him some questions,
and I might suggest that if Mr. Boxhall would care to call upon
Senator Burton this evening, he might be able to get through with
him; or, he might appear to-morrow morning for a few moments.
Mr. Franklin. But the other members of tne crew and the oflTicers
may return 1
Senator Smith. So far as I know; and we will try to finish with
Mr. Ismay to-morrow morning. We will stand adjourned until 10
o'clock to-morrow morning.
Thereupon, at 6.20 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until
to-morrow, Tuesday, April 30, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
The following isa copy of the notes of the wireless operator of
the Mount Temple^ introduced during the testimony of Capt, James
Henry Moore, on Saturday, April 27, 1912.
" TITANIC " DISASTER. 897
CoFT OF Proces- Verbal Book, Steamship "Mount Temple."
Tiiue. Sunday evening, April 14, 191t.
9.55'. S%B. with M. P. A. Nil.
10.25. TVomc eending C. Q. D. Answer him, but he replies: 'Tan not read you, old
man, but here my position, 41.46 N., 50.14 W. Come at once. Have struck
beig." Informed captain.
10.35. CarpShia answers M. G. Y. M. G. Y. says: "Struck iceberg; come to our
assistance at once." Sends position.
10.40. M. G. Y. still calling C. Q. D. Our captain reveises ship and steams for M. G.
Y. We are about 50 miles off.
10.48. Frankfurt answers M. G. Y. M. G. Y. gives him his position and asks: "Are
you coming to our assistance?" D. F. T. asks: "What is the matter with
you?" M. G. Y. replies: "We have struck iceberg and sinking; please tell
captain to come." "O. K.; will tell the bridge right away." "0. K.;
yes; quick."
10.55. M. G. Y. calling S. O. S.
10.57. M. G. Y. calling M. K. C.
10.59. M. G. Y. working M. R. A.
11.00. M. G. Y. calling M. G. N. and C. Q. D.
11.10. M. G. Y. calling C. Q. D.
11.20. M. G. Y. gets M. K. C. and says "Captain says *Get your boats ready. Going
down fast at the head.' "
11.25. D. F. T. says "Our captain will go for vou."
11.27. M. G. Y. caUing C. Q. D. and M. B. C.
11.30. M. G. Y. calling C. Q. D.
11.35. M. K. C. sends M. S. G. to M. G. Y. M. G. Y. replies "We are putting the
women off in the boats."
11.41. M. G. Y. says 0. Q. D. engine room flooded.
11.43. M. G. Y. tells M. K. C. sea cabn.
11.45. D. K. F. asks: "Are there any boats aroimd you already? '' No reply.
11.47. M. K. C. sends M. S. G. to M. G. Y. M. G. Y. acknowledges it and sends Rd.
11.55. D. F. T. and S. B. A. (Russian liner Birma) calling M. G. Y. No reply.
Monday, April 15, 1912.
a. m.
12.10. M. K. C, D. F. T., and M. B. C. calling M. G. Y. No reply.
12.25. S. B. A. tells D. F. T. he is 70 miles from M. G. Y.
12.50. All quiet now. M. G. Y. hasn't spoken since 11 .47 p. m.
1.25. M. P. A. sends: "If you are there, we are firing rockets. "
1 .40. M. P. A. calling M. G. Y.
1 .58. S. B. A. thinks he hears M,
arrive you 6 in the morning.
2.00. M. P. A. callsM.G. Y.
3.00. All quiet; we're stopped amongst pack ice.
3.05. S. B. A. and D. F. T. working.
3.20. iS. B. A. and D. F. T. working. We back out of ice and orui?o annind. Large
bergs about .
3.25. M. W. L. calls O. Q. I answer him and ad\'ifle him of M. G. Y. and send him
M. G. Y.'s position.
3.40. M. W. L. working D. F. T.; D. F. T. sends him the same.
4.00. M. W. L. working M. G. N.
4.25. M. W. L. working S. B. A.
5.20. Sigs. M. W. L.; wants my position; send it. We*re very close.
6.00. Much jamming.
6.45. M. P. A. reports rescued 20 boatloads.
7.15. More jamming.
7.30. M. B. 0. sends S. G. to M. W. L.: "Stand by immediately. You liave^oen
instructed to do m frequently. Balfour, inspector."
7 .40. M. P. A. calls C. Q. and says: "No need to stand by him; nothing more can be
done." Advise my captain, who has been cniising around the ice field with
no result. Ship reversed. Standing by rest of day. M. P. A. and M. K. C.
very busv.
M. G. Y., 2Vtanw;M. K. C, Olyjnpic;M.B. C, Baltic;U. G. N., Virginian; M. W. L.,
Caii/omian; M. P. A., Carpathia; D. F. T., Frankfurt: S. B. A., Birma.
M, G. Y., so sends "Steamin^r full speed to you; shall
ling. Hope you are safe . W e are on ly 50 m iles now . ' '
898 '' TITANIC '' DISABTEB.
TESTmomr of xs. Joseph o. bozhail.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator Burton on Monday, April 29, 1912.]
Senator Burton. I understand you have testified before the full
committee about the radiograms relating to ice ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir. I have stated upstairs, or in Senator
Smith's presence, this afternoon that I did not near of any ice reports
the day of the accident.
Senator Burton. None were reported to you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I did not hear any. There were none reported to
me. I do not think any were reported during my watch on deck, or
I should have heard it.
Senator Burton. When was your watch on deck ?
ifr. BoxHALL. I was ou decK on Sunday morning from 8 o'clock
until noon, and I was on again from 4 until 6, and then I was on again
from 8 until the time of the accident.
Senator Burton. You made an entry on the chart as to ice of which
you had received information, did you not ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Burton. When was that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I can not get the day, but it was probably a couple
of days before, when we had a radiogram from the captain of La
Tourainey giving his position at 7 o'clock Greenwich time, and I
w^orked out our position at 7 o'clock Greenwich time, and wrote out
the time for Capt. Smith.
Senator Burton. You made an entry of that on the chart ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; and showed the captain the position the cap-
tain of La Touraine had given us.
Senator Burton. Do you recall what that position was ?
Mr. BoxHALL. No, sir; but I recall this much, as I remarked to
Capt. Smith, that those positions were of no use to us, because they
Fere absolutely north of our track. You will understand these
wrench boats do not keep the recognized tracks we do. French boats
are always to be found to the northward. Therefore I plotted all
these positions out. He had given us the position of a aerelict, or
something, and when I plotted this derelict and these various iceberg
he had seen I could almost form an opinion of this track he had taken,
and I said, *^They are out of our way."
Senator Burton. About how far north of your track ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I could not say; but considerably north. He had
gone right across the Banks.
Senator Burton. Twenty or thirty miles ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I would not like to say any distance. He had gone
across the Banks, and we did not get on the Banks, at all.
Senator Burton. You did not check that up with any special care
after you had put that location down, because you thought it out of
your course ?
Mr. BoxHALL. It was put down just as carefully as I should have
put it down if it had been on our course. I did not know exactly
where she was until I saw the actual position on the chart. The cap-
tain saw me, and he was there alongside of me when I was putting tne
positions down, or shortly after I put them down, anyhow. He read
the telegram and looked at it, ana those positions satisfied him.
(( ^^^. ^--^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 899
Senator Bukton. Did you receive any messages that informed you
of ice in your track ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Not to mv knowledge.
Senator Bukton. Not when you were on watch ?
Mr. Boxhall. No, sir; and I do not think there were any received
at all of ice on our track, or the word would have been passed around
right away; everybody would have known it. As soon as these mes-
sages are received, where there is ice, one of the junior officers of the
watch plots the positions on the chart.
Senator Burton. What is the custom as to making observations ?
Does the same person take the observations who also makes the com-
putations as to where you are ?
Mr. Boxhall. Sometimes. It just depends on the state of the
weather, and it depends a lot on the captam. Some captains will not
allow their senior officers to go inside oi the chart room and work these
observations out, leaving the junior officer on the bridge. Others do.
Senator Burton. What was the case on the Titanic?
Mr. Boxhall. In this case I think it was optional; of course, with
a fair amount of regard for the weather. Sometimes the officers went
inside, and sometimes they did not.
Senator Bltiton. The captain of the Mount Temple maintains that
the course as conveyed by the distress signal was wrong; that the
Titanic was actually eight miles distant from the place indicated.
What do you say as to that ?
Mr. Boxhall. I do not know what to say. I know our position,
because I worked the position out, and I know that it is correct. One
of the first things that Capt. Postron said after I met liim was, *' What
a splendid position that was you gave us.''
Senator Burton. You gave them what position ?
Mr. Boxhall. 41° 46' and 50° 14'.
Senator Burton. And you are satisfied that was correct ?
Mr. Boxhall. Perfectly.
Senator Burton. You computed it yourself, did you ?
Mr. Boxhall. I computed it myself, and computed it by star
observations that had been taken by Mr. Lightoller that same evening;
and they were beautiful observations.
Senator Burton. Who made the computations on them?
Mr. Boxhall. I did. You asked me if the officer who took the
observations and the one who made the computations compared
their results?
Senator Burton. Yes.
Mr. Boxhall. I do not see what there is to compare. The officer
who takes the observations always is the senior officer.
Senator Burton. He writes those down, does he?
Mr. Boxhall. He simply takei the observations with his sextant.
The junior officer takes the time with the chronometer, and then is
told to work them out.
Senator Burton. That is, another person works them out ?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes. If he does not think these things are correct,
he tells you to work them over, and you have to do it.
Senator Burton. Would there not be some danger of your mis-
taking a figure, or something of that kind, that is written down by
another person ?
it ^, ^ ff
900 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. When you take stars you always endeavor, as ther
did that night, to take a set of stars. One position checks another.
You take two stars for latitude, and two for longitude, one star north
and one star south, one star east and one star west. If you find a
big difference between eastern and western stars, you know there is a
mistake somewhere. If there is a difference between these two lati-
tude stars jrou know there is a mistake somewhere. But, as it hap-
pened, I think I worked out three stars for latitude and I think 1
worked out tlu*ee stars for longitude.
Senator Burton. And they all agreed ?
Mr. BoxHALL. They all agreed.
Senator Burton. What time did you do that ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I reaUv do not know what time it was. I was work-
ing these things out after 8 o'clock, and Mr. Lightoller took them
before 8 o'clock.
Senator Burton. About how long was that before the collision ?
Mr. BoxHALL. The collision was at 11.43, 1 think.
Senator Burton. And how long before the collision did you make
this computation ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I suppose about 10 o'clock. Yes; I finished before
10 o'clock, because I gave Mr. Lightoller the results when I finished.
Senator Burton. And the result as to the position of the ship was
anived at by computing your speed after 10 o clock to the time of the
coUision ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Burton. You are very sure it was right, and Capt. Rostron
said it was ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Capt. Rostron said it was a very, very good position.
After I had worked these observations of Mr. Lightoller's I was tak-
ing star bearings for compass error for myself, and I was working those
out. That is what kept me in the chart room most of the time. I
was making computations most of the time.
Senator Burton. Did you youi-self receive these messages relating
to ice ?
Mr. Boxhall. I received those I copied.
Senator Burton. What did Murdock mean by the expression ''I
intended to port around it?'' What is the meaning of tnat expres-
sion ?
Mr. BoxHALL. That is easier described than explained.
Mr. Boxhall explained on a diagram the meaning of the term re-
ferred to.
Senator Burton. How near was the wireless station to the bridge ?
Mr. Boxhall. The wireless station was in the after part, of the
officers' quarters, between the second and third funnels.
Senator Burton. And to whom did you give the longitude and
latitude ?
Mr. Boxhall. I took it in on a piece of paper, and the wireless
operator had the receivers on his ears. It is the usual thing, whenever
I go into a Marconi office, and the operators are busy listening, not to
interrupt them. Whatever I have to say I write down.
Senator Burton. You wrote it down and handed it to him?
Mr. Boxhall. Yes.
Senator Burton. And he sent it immediately, did he ?
(t iX ff
TITANIO DISASTER, 901
Mr. BoxHALL. I judge so.
Senator Burton. How much did the Titanic draw at that time ?
Mr. BoxHAUL. I could not say what the draft was when we left
Southampton; probably 33 feet.
Senator Burton. You are very positive you saw that ship ahead
on the port bow, are you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir; quite positive.
Senator Burton. Did you see the ereen or red light ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes; I saw the sidelights with my naked eye.
Senator Burton. When did you see them ?
Mr. BoxHALL. From our ship, before I left the ship. I saw this
steamer's stem light before I went into my boat, which indicated that
the ship had turned around. I saw a white light, and I could not see
any of the masthead lights that I had seen previously, and I took it
for a stem light.
Senator Burton. Which light did you see first ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw the masthead lights first, the two steaming
lights; and then, as she drew up closer, I saw her side Ughts througn
my passes, and eventually I saw the red Ught. I had seen the green,
but I saw the red most of the time. I saw the red light with my
naked eye.
Senator Burton. Did she pull away from you ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know when she turned ; I can not say when
I missed the Ughts, because I was leaving the bridge to go and fire
off some more of those distress rockets and attend to other duties.
Senator Burton. Then your idea is that she was coming toward
you on the port side ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Burton. Because you saw the red light and the masthead
lights ?
Mr. BoXHALL. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Afterward you saw the green Ught, which showed
that she had turned ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I think I saw the green light before I saw the red
light, as a matter of fact. But the snip was meeting us. I am cov-
ering the whole thine by saying the ship was iheeting us.
Senator Burton. Your impression is she turned away, or turned
on a different course ?
Mr. BoxHAJLL. That is my impression.
Senator Burton. At a later time, when you were in the boat after
it had been lowered, what light did you see ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw this single light, which I took to be her stem
light, just before I went away in the boat, as near as I can say.
Senator Burton. How long did you see this stem light ?
Mr. BoxHALL. I saw it until I puUed around the sBp's stern. I
had laid oft' a little while on the port side, on which side I was lowered,
and then I afterwards puUed around the ship^s stem, and, of course,
then I lost the light, and I never saw it anymore.
Senator Burton. Her course, as she came on, would have been
nearer to your course: that is, your course was ahead, there, and she
was coming in towara your course ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes, sir; she was slightly crossing it, evidently.
I suppose she was turning around slowly.
Senator Burton: Is it your idea that she turned away ?
f( ,^^.^^^^ ff
\
902 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. BoxHALL. That is my idea, sir.
Senator Burton. She kept on a general course toward the east,
and then bore away from you, or what %
Mr. BoxHALL. 1 do not think she was doing much steaming. I do
not think the ship was steaming very much, because after I first saw
the masthead lignts she must have been still steaming, but by the
time I saw her red light with my naked eye she was not steaming
very much. So she had probably gotten into the ice, and turned
around.
Senator Bubton. What do you think happened after she turned
around ? Do you think she went away to avoid the ice?
Mr. BoxHALL. I do not know whether she stayed there all night,
or what she did. I lost the light. I did not see her after we puUed
around to the starboard side of the Titanic.
Senator Bubton. Then you lost track of her ?
Mr. BoxHALL. Yes.
Senator Burton. And you saw her no more after that ?
Mr. BoxfiALL. No, sir. As a matter of fact, Capt. Smith was
standing by my side, and we both came to the conclusion that she
was close enough to be signaled by the Morse lamp. So I signaled
to her. I called her up, and got no answer. The captain said, ' *Tell
him to come at once, we are sinking." So I sent that signal out,
*'Come at once, we are sinking."
Senator Burton. And you Kept firing up those rockets?
Mr. Boxhall. Then leaving oflf and firing rockets. There were a
lot of stewards and men standing around the bridge and around the
boat deck. Of course, there were quite a lot of them q^aite inter-
ested in this ship, looking from the bridge, and some said she had
shown a light in reply, but I never saw it. I even got the quarter-
master who was worMng around with me — I do not know who he
was — to fire off the distress signal, and I got him to also signal with
the Morse lamp — that is just a series of dots with short intervals of
light — whilst I watched with a pair of glasses to see whether this
man did answer, as some people said he had replied.
Senator Burton. You saw nothing of the hull of the boat?
Mr. Boxhall. Oh, no; it was too dark.
I have already stated, in answer to a question, how far this ship
was away from us, that I thought she was about 5 miles, and I arrived
at it in this way. The masthead lights of a steamer are required bv
the board of trade regulations to snow for 5 miles, and the signafs
are required to show for 2 miles.
Senator Burton. You could see that distance on such a night as
this?
Mr. Boxhall. I could see quite clearly.
Senator Burton. You are very sure you are not deceived about
seeing these lights ?
Mr. Boxhall. Not at all.
Senator Burton. You saw not only the mast light but the side
lights?
ifr. Boxhall. I saw the side lights. Whatever ship she was she
had beautiful lights. I think we could s6e her lights ttiore thkn the
regulation distance, but I do not think we could sree thdm 14 miles.
Thereupon, at 7.10 p. m., the subcommittee adjourned until to-
morrow, Tuesday, Apru 30, 1912, at 10 p'clock a. m.
X
*"' TIT.A.2SriC " IDIS-A^STEJIi
' HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 11
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unttbd States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Chairman.
GEORGE C. PBBKINB, CaUfarnla. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolixia.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jb., Ongon. FRANCIS 0. NBWLANDS, NerwU.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKovaTBT, Clerk.
II
/
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Bishop, Dickinson H 968
Bishop, Mrs. Helen W 966
Dunn, Edward J 903
Gracie, Archibald 957, 972
Ismay, J. Bruce 906,949
Moigan, Charles H 905
Stengel, C. E. Henry 938
in
"TITANIC" DISASTER.
TUB8DAT, AFB.Ua 30, 1918.
subcobimittee of the committee on commebce,
United States Senate,
WashingUm, D. C,
The subcomimttee met at 10 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Burton, and Fletcher.
TESTDEOVT OF EDWABD J. DUHV.
Mr. Dunn was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside, Mr. Dunn ?
Mr. Dunn. Beechhurst, Long Island.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Dunn. Thirty-five years old.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Dunn. Salesman.
Senator SMrrn. What do you know, Mr. Dunn, with reference to
the receipt of a telegram addressed to "Islefrank,'* or "Frankhn,"
and received bv an operator on Monday morning, April 15, about 8
o'clock 1 Kindly tell us.
Mr. Dunn. On April 18, at luncheon, with an acquaintance, we
were discussing the disaster of the Titanic^ and also the supposed
reinsurance of the carco; and we wondered why it was that the news
was held back until Ifonday morning. The question arose that there
were rumors that there was a telegram deUvered at the Western Union
office to be dehvered, or a message had been received by wireless
addressed to Islefrank; and the wireless people, not knowing who
Islefrank was, in turn turned that telegram over to the Western
Union people to dehver to Islefrank. It appears that the telegram
was delivered at the White Star office between half past 7 and 8
o'clock that Monday morning.
Senator Burton. One moment. What is the source of this infor-
mation? You say: "It appears."
Senator SMrrn. I am going to run that down. Judge, in just a
moment. These questions are merely preliminary.
Go right ahead and state just what you know about the matter,
Mr. Dunn.
Mr. Dunn. That ends the conversation regarding the telegram
That ends with simply the fact that the company delivered it between
half past 7 and 8 o clock that Monday morning.
Senator Smith. I would like you to give me the name of your
informant.
The witness did not reply.
903
904 TITAKIO DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. Do you know his name ?
Mr. Dunn. I do.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you give it to the committee.
Mr. Dunn. I pledged my word that I woiud not disclose his name.
Senator Smith. Did he exact that pledge from you t
Mr. Dunn. He did.
Senator Smith. Have you since tried to be released from that
pledge }
Mr. Dunn. I have.
Senator Smith. When did you last see your informant ?
Mr. Dunn. At five minutes to 6 last night.
Senator Smith. Where?
Mr. Dunn. At the Pennsylvania depot.
Senator Smith. What did he say to you ?
Mr. Dunn. He a^eed to come on here this morning to testify.
Senator Smith. Did he come ?
Mr. Dunn. He did not.
Senator Smith. Under the circumstances^ it seems to me that it
would be very pjroper for you to give the conmittee his name, on
account of his failure to keep his word.
Mr. Dunn. The only thing I have from him is simply a telegram
received from him. Here is the telegram.
Senator Smith. Just read it, please, for the information of the
committee.
Mr. Dunn (reading) :
Regret circumstances do not pennit departure. No. sig.
Senator Smith. It is signed: **No sig."; dated, "Brooklyn, N. Y.,
April 29-12," and addressed: "Edward J. Dunn." Down in the
left hand corner is the notation, "11.45 p. m."
I ask you again, Mr. Dunn, to give me the name of your informant.
Mr. Dunn. I can not do it.
Senator Smith. I must insist upon it, Mr. Dunn. I dislike very
much to press you.
Mr. Dunn. I tried to communicate with this gentleman this morn-
ing by telephone, and I have been informed that he was not at his
place of business. Usually he arrives there very early, and it was
8.15 when I telephoned him, and he had not been there up to that
time.
Senator Smith. What is his business ?
Mr. Dunn. He is engaged in the same business I am in.
Senator Smith. What is that ?
Mr. Dunn. Importing wall papers.
Senator Smith. I think I shall insist, Mr. Dunn, that you give us
his name. My associates say that we must have his name.
Mr. Dunn. I regret it very much, Senator, but I can not give it to
you.
Senator Smith. Of course, you can see its importance.
Mr. Dunn. I realize the fact that it is important.
Senator Smith. Did your informant advise you what the result
would be if you gave his name to the public ?
Mr. Dunn. It was simply a matter of protecting his father.
Senator Smith. What did he say about his father ?
tt ,^«,a*,^^ >>
TITANIC DI8ASTEE. 905
Mr. Dunn. He said his father had been a man who was employed
by the Western Union people for a great many years, a man pretty
^well advanced in years, and he saia that if this matter came out,
knowing he was the one who was supposed to have this information,
h.e w^ouM lose his position.
Senator Smith. Just retire from the stand a moment, Mr. Dunn,
and go to my office.
I want to call Mr. Morgan for just a moment. He is the deputy
marshal from Cleveland.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
TESTIMOVT OF MB. CHABLES H. MOBOAIT.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Morgan. Charles H. Morgan.
Senator Smith. Where do you live?
Mr. Morgan. Cleveland, Ohio.
Senator Smith. 'VMiat position do you hold ?
Mr. Morgan. Deputy United States marshal.
Senator Smith. As such deputy marshal, did you bring Luis Klein
from Cleveland to Washington?
Mr. Morgan. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Was he in your custody while here ?
Mr. Morgan. Well, I was with him — trying to be with him — yes,
sir.
Senator Smith. Did he sign this paper [handing witness paper] ?
^ffr. Morgan. I did not see him personally, but I know that he did,
because it came out from the office.
Senator Smith. In consequence of that, no process was serv*ed on
him?
Mr. Morgan. I think not; no, sir.
Senator Smith. I want to read this in the lecoid, in order that the
record may dispose of this witness properly.
Senator Smith read the paper referred to in full, as follows:
Office of the Unitbd States Attorney,
Northern District of Ohio,
Cleveland, Ohio, AprU £i, 191t,
The United States Attorney, and
The United States Marshal,
Cleveland, Ohio.
Gentlemen: I hereby waive issuance and service of process and subpoena on m«
in the matter of the investigation of the so-called Titanic disaster, before the United
States Senate subcommittee, and voluntarily consent to be taken by the United States
martial from Cleveland, Ohio, to Washington, D. C, for the purpose of giving my
testimony before Raid committee.
Luis Klein.
Senator Smith. Do you know what has become of this witness ?
Mi, Morgan. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know when he departed from his tempo-
rary abode here ?
Mr. Morgan. We got here Tuesday morning, and I saw him up to
11 o^clock Tuesday night, and was to bring him up here. I was to
get him up and help him — get him out of bed at 8 o^clock; but it
seems he left the hotel at 7 o'clock, leaving what few things he had.
He went out without his collar and necktie.
906 TITANIC DISASTER*
Senator Smith. And he has not been seen since ?
Mr. Morgan. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you endeavored to find him ?
Mr. Morgan. Yes, sir. I immediately notified the people here, and
have been following instructions, trying to locate the man.
Senator Smith. You have not succeeded ?
Mr. Morgan. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Had anybody seen him during the night ?
Mr. Morgan. Nobody did; no, sir — that is, according to everybody
at the hotel; and I know that no one saw him up to II o'clock at
night.
Senator Fletcher. Did you stop at the same hotel with him ?
Mr. Morgan. I did, yes, sir; and the night clerk and the bell boys
and all said there was not anyone with him — at least to the best of
their knowledge. I am very positive they did not.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Smith. That is all. You may be excused, and you need
not remain any longer under the orders of the committee.
Mr. Franklin. Mr. Chairman, might I suggest that a copy of that
testimony be sent to the president or other officers of the Western
Union Telegraph Co. ?
Senator Smith. Which testimony ?
Mr. Franklin. !Mr. Dunn's.
Senator Smith. That it be sent
Mr. Franklin. To the president or other officers of the Western
Union Telegraph Co., informing them that this has been information
given out by one of their employees, and asking them to produce the
message.
Senator Smith. I have tried very hard to get the message, and I
have tried to get the employees. Will you take the same course in
this matter as you did yesterday ?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. You will waive all questions of right?
Mr. Franklin. Absolutely; and everj'- point connected with any
telegrams or wireless messages or cables. I should like to have this
sifted to the bottom if it can be.
Senator Smith. That has been my effort, and I have tried my best;
and I am not going to slacken any.
Mr. Franklin. That is right, sir.
Senator Smith. Is Mr. Bishop in the room ?
There was no response.
Senator Smith. Is Mrs. Bishop in the room?
There was no response.
Senator Smith. Is Col. Gracie here ?
There was no response.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, will you take the stand, please?
TESTIMOITT OF MB. J. BBUGE ISMAT— Recalled.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, you were sworn in New York.
Mr. Ismay. I was, sir.
Senator Smith. I desire to ask you a few questions in addition to
those I asked you the other day.
(< ^. ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 907
I believe you said your state room was on A deck ?
Mr. IsMAY. On B aeck.
Senator Smith. On B deck; No. 56?
Mr. IsMAY. I am not sure whether I said 52 or 56 ; but a gentleman
who was on the stand yesterday said he had 52, and if he had, I could
not have had it. I must have been in 56, I think.
Senator Smith. How long have you been the managing director of
the International Mercantile Marine Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. The general manager ?
Senator Smith, les; how long have you held the office you now
hold ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think since about 1910, sir. I succeeded Mr. Griscom.
Senator Smith. In such position, what were your duties?
Mr. IsMAY. I had general control of the steamship business of the
International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Smith. And its constituent companies ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; with the exception of the Leyland Line. I
think the captain of the Califomian said I had control of the Leyland
Line. That is not correct. The Leyland Line has its own general
manager and its own board of directors.
Senator Smith. Is its stock owned by your company ?
Mr. Ism AY. Controlled — not entirely. There is a certain amount
of stock held altogether by outside individuals.
Senator Smith. Is the majority of the stock owned by your com-
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. So that you are in a position to control the Leyland
Line if you care to do so ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And the steamship Californian is one of the ships
of the Leyland line ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How many steamship lines are under the control
of your company ?
Mr. IsMAY. There is tlie American Line
Senator Smith (interposing). In naming tliem I would like to have
you, if vou will, name the routes or principal ports of call of these
various lines?
Mr. IsMAY. Of the whole fleets sir ?
Senator Smith. Of the whole fleet; yes.
Mr. IsMAY. We have the American Line of steamers, which run
between Southampton and New York. They also have service
between Philadelphia and Liverpool.
We have the Atlantic Transport Line, which runs from New York
to London, from Pliiladelphia to London, and from Baltimore to
Antwerp and London.
There is the White Star Ijine that runs from New York to Liverpool,
from New York to Southampton; from Liverpool to Australia, and
from Liverpool to New Zealand; from New York to the Mediterranean,
and from Boston to the Mediterranean; from Montreal to Liverpool —
the White Star Line also.
We have the Mississippi & Dominion Line that runs steamers from
Montreal to Liverpool; and the British North Atlantic that runs
steamers from Montreal to liverpool, and from Montreal to Avon-
mouth.
908 TITANIC DISASTER.
The Leyland Line runs from Boston to Ijiverpool, from Boston to
London, to the West Indies, and down to some South American ports,
and to New Orleans.
The Wliite Star Line runs from New York to Antwerp, from Ani-
werp to Boston, and then down from Boston to Philadelphia and
Baltimore.
I think that is all, as far as I can remember.
Senator Smith. Have you any lines to Australia ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; the White Star Line runs from London to Aus-
tralia. They go from Liverpool to Australia, and come from Aus-
tralia back to London, and tnen on to Liverpool, calling at the Cape
of Good Hope outward and inward bound. The New Zealand steam-
ers from London go out by the Cape of Good Hope and come home
by Cape Horn.
Senator Smith. Have you any lines to Brazil ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or Buenos Aires ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I mean the Argentine ?
Mr. IsMAY. There may be tramp steamers going down there with
coal, but we have no regularly established lines.
Senator Smith. Is there any service other than that which you
have described to the Mediterranean ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; simply from New York to the Mediterranean,
and from Boston to the Mediterranean.
Senator Smith. Touching at all these principal ports of the
Mediterranean?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; Gibraltar and Naples and Algiers, and right
through to Alexandria.
Senator Smith. How many ships constitute this fleet!
Mr. IsMAY. I am afraid I could not tell you. I think it amounts to
about a million tons altogether, in round figures. I do not know the
number. You will find the number in that report for 1910 which iir.
Franklin gave you, the International Mercantile Marine Co.'s report,
showing the names of all the steamers and the tonnage.
Senator Smith. Is the investment in ships of your company its
principal and only investment?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; I should think so.
All the money we have is invested in ships or works appertaining to
the ships ; that is, works that we keep going for the ships, repair shops
and those kind of things; nothing outride of that.
Senator Smith. What I was getting at was the question whether
your company built any of its own vessels.
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. We would only do the ordinary repairs ; what
we call the voyage repairs.
Senator Smith. I think the record shows that the capitalization and
bonded indebtedness of your company aggregates about $153,000,000 i
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir. Mr. Franklin gave that in his testimony.
Senator Smith. Is this amount represented, so far as you are able
to say, by the property you have described?
Mr. IsMAY. i es, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you interested personallv or is your company
interested in the shipbuilding firm of Harland & Wolff ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
(( . ^ 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 909
Senator Smith. They were the builders of the Titanic^ were they
not?
Mr. IsMAY. Messrs. Harland & Wolff, of Belfast, built the Titanic;
yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have they built other ships for your company ?
Mr. IsMAY. They built practically the whole fleet of the miite Star
Line.
Senator Smith. Including the Olympic and the Baltic f
Mr. IsMAY. The Olympic and the Baltic and all those ships.
Senator Smith. Under whos^ immediate supervision has that work
been done ?
Mr. IsMAY. Lord Pirrie is chairman of the company.
Senator Smith. He is chairman of the building company ?
Mr. IsMAY. He is chairman of the building company.
Senator Smith. Has Mr. Andrews held
Mr. IsMAY (interrupting). He was one of the directors of Harland
& Wolff.
Senator Smith. He himself was a builder ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Was he an engineer ?
Mr. IsMAY. I would not call him an engineer. He was more of a
designer, and was superintending the building of the ships.
Senator Smith. Did he have anything to do with building the
Olympic?
Air. IsMAY. He had a great deal to do with designing the Olympic.
Senator Smith. And he designed the Titanic?
Mr. IsMAY. And he designed the Titanic,
Senator Smith. And was one of its passengers on this ill-fated
vo vage ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And he did not survive ?
Mr. IsMAY. He did not.
Senator Smith. I have forgotten, Mr. Ismay, whether you were at
Belfast when the trial trips of the Titanic were made.
Mr. Ismay. No, sir. As I came out on the first voyage of the ship,
I did not go over for the trial trips.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether Mr. Andrews was there at
Belfast when the trial trips were made ?
Mr. Ismay. I believe he was. I think he came around in the ship
from Belfast to Southampton.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether any officer or director of
your company was at Belfast when the trial trips were made ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes; Mr. Sanderson was on the snip.
Senator Smfth. What place did he hold ?
Mr. Ismay. He is manager of the White Star Line and a director of
the White Star Line. I think he is a director of tlie International
Mercantile Marine Co., and one of the vice presidents. Mr. Sanderson
was also on board the ship.
Senator Smith. He was also a director.
Mr. Ismay. Of the International Mercantile Marine Co. ; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did both of these directors make the voyage from
Belfast to Southampton on the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir; I believe so.
910 TITANIC mSASTEB.
Senator Smith. But neither of them was aboard the ship on this
last voyage ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What is the relationship of the vessels of the Inter-
national Mercantile Marine Co., or any oi its constituent companies,
to the British Navy ?
Mr. IsMAY. I am afraid I do not understand quite what ^"ou mean ?
Senator Smith. I want to know whether any of the ships of vour
fleet are, by any arrangement with the British Government, auxiliary
to their Navy ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. What mail contracts have you with the British
Gk)vernment or any other Government ?
Mr. IsMAY. We nave a mail contract for carrying the mails from
Southampton to New York, for which we receive a lump-sum pavment
of £70,000 a year; $360,000 a year.
Senator Smith. £70,000?
Mr. Ismay. That is the maximum payment that we can receive.
Senator Smith. For that payment what are you supposed to do ?
Mr. Ismay. We carry the mails from Southampton. We pick up
the mails at Southampton, and then we go on to Queenstown and
pick up any mails that &ro there, and land them in New York.
Senator Smith. In that contract is there any condition that you
shall make any specific speed between Southampton and New York ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir. We are supposed to use the fastest ships we
have in our fleet for the conveyance of the mails, but there is abso-
lutely no penalty attached to our not making any special speed.
Senator Smith. Is there any minimum ?
Mr. Ismay. I think there is. I think there is a minimum; or we
are not allowed to put the mails into ships that will go less tlian 16
knots, or something like that.
Senator Smith. Is the arrangement that you have with the British
postal authorities ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. That arrangement provides that this mail shall be
dispatched in the most direct and expeditious manner possible, and
that you shall not loiter, at a minimum speed of less than 16 knots
per hour ?
Mr. Ismay. I think it is 16 knots, sir. The contract is printed.
The contract is a public document.
Senator Smith. You say that you are supposed to carry these
mails on your fastest ships ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. Have you any mail contracts vrith the Government
of the United States ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir. Oh, I beg your pardon; I was speaking then
of the Wliite Star Line. The American Line has a contract.
Senator Smith. What kind of a contract is that?
Mr. Ismay. I think they get $4 a mile, and have to carry the mails.
I do not know whether they receive any payment for the mails.
Senator Smith. $4 per nule?
Mr. Ismay. Per mile.
Senator Smith. Only per mile?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
'' TITANIC " DISASTER. 911
Senator Smith. Not per ton ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. There is no ton requisite?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; it is per mile.
.Senator Smith. And is that for mail service between New York
and Southampton?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Have you any contract with the United States
Government for mail service between New York or Boston and other
ports than Southampton?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is there any speed condition in the contract of the
United States Government?
Mr. IsMAY. I am really not conversant with that contract, sir.
Senator Smith. I think you said you have no mail contracts with
anv other Governments ?
^fr. Ismay. We have a mail contract with the Canadian Govern-
ment. I think we get $1,000 a ship for taking the mails from Quebec
to Liverpool.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the term of years of your British
contract ?
ifr. IsMAY. It is subject to 12-months' notice.
Senator Smith. It is perpetual, with the privilege of discontinuing
on 12-months' notice?
Mr. Ismay. Either side can give 12-months' notice, and discontinue
the contract at any time.
Senator Smith. It is subject to rearrangement?
Mr. Ismay. That would be the subject of negotiation between the
post office and ourselves.
Senator Smith. Are the terms of that contract subject to readjust-
ment from time to time ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; it is an absolutely set contract, subject to
12 months' notice.
Senator Smith. In making that contract with the British Govern-
ment, were you obliged to enter into competition with any rival line ?
ifr. Ismay. No; 1 do not think so, sir. I think the arrangement
was made between the White Star Line and the Cunard Co. and the
Government.
Senator Smith. Was the Cunard Co. the only competition that you
had in that field ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes. I do not know any other British company which
has a contract with the British Government for carrying mail across
the western ocean, at least, so far as England and the United States
are concerned.
Senator Smith. Then you have an arrangement between the Cunard
Co. and your own company with reference to this contract?
Mr. Ismay. No; I would not say that. The Cunard Co. negotiated
with the Government so far as they were concerned, and we nego-
tiated with the Government so far as we were concerned.
Senator Smith. Does the Cunard Co. receive anv division of this
income; does it receive any portion of this income of $350,000 a year ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And is that the case with the American Govern-
ment ; does the same situation exist with the American Government ?
912 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. IsMAY. During the winter months we do not run four White
Star steamers. We have been in the habit of running two White Star
steamers and two American Line steamers, and the White Star Line
always credits the American Line with their share of the mail matter;
so that you might divide the mail matter into 52 weeks, one boat a
week.
Senator Smith. But there is no copartnership arrangement of anv
kind?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. Or any division of this income, as the result of an
understanding between the two companies ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In making the bid or proffering your ships for this
service were you obliged to compete witn any other company ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. In either contract 1
Mr. IsMAY. Of course, we simply get paid by the weight of the mail
we carry from here. We have aosolutely no contract with the Unit^
States rost Office Department. We are paid by weight.
Senator Smith. Has the question of the speed of your ships entered
into this postal arrangement in any way ?
Mr. IsMAY. From England ?
Senator Smith. From England.
Mr. IsMAY. It must have done so; because, naturally, they would
not give a contract to any ships which were slow ships.
Senator Smith. Is this item of $350,000 a year regarded as a
desirable part of your income ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Smith. For that alone you would not be able to operate
these big ships ?
Mr. IsMAY. No.
Senator Smith. But in connection with your general business
Mr. IsMAY. It all helps.
Senator Smith (continuing). It all goes to make an inducement to
build and operate these ships ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes; but I do not think that £70,000 a year would
induce anybody to build big ships.
Senator Smith. No; not in itself?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Has the company of which vou are the head been
afilicted with the loss of many ships at sea under your management ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; I do not tnink we have had more tnan our
share, perhaps.
Senator Smith. Do you now recall how many you have lost during
your managemf^nt ?
Mr. Ismay. The only two that I remember are the Republic and
the Naronic. I really was not the manager when the Naronic was
lost. The onl^ ship that has been lost smce I have been manager
is the Republic.
Senator Smith. Where was the Republic lost, do you remember ?
Mr. Ismay. She was lost by being run into by an Italian steamer,
I do not remember where; 1 think she was about 36 hours out of
New York, but I really do not remember the place.
Senator Smith. Do you remember where the Naronic was lost ?
{( ^.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 913
Mr. IsMAY. She was never heard of after leaving Liverpool.
Senator Smith. For what port was she destined ?
Mr. IsMAT. New York.
Senator Smith. And you have no means of knowing as to the
latitude and longitude in which that boat was lost ?
Mr. IsMAY. \o/sir; she was practically a new ship when she was
lost, and her sister ship is now running between Liverpool and Aus-
tralia.
Senator Smith. What was her tonnage ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not remember, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you remember how much she cost ?
Mr. IsMAY. No ; I could not tell you that.
Senator Smith. Do you remember how high she was insured ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not think she had been insured at all, sir.
Senator Smith. Then you have no data bv which you are able to
enlighten the committee as to where she was lost, or as to her tonnage
or value ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; but I will very gladly give you her tonnage and
her value. So far as the insurance is concerned, I can state that she
was not insured. The underwriter of the company took the whole
risk concerned.
Senator Smith. Do you know what the average revenue per trip,
gross and net, of the Olymvic is ?
Mr. IsMAY. That woula entirely depend on the time of year.
Senator Smith. At this time of year ?
Mr. JsMAY. I really could not tell you offhand, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you approximate it ?
Mr. IsMAY. I am almost afraid to answer the question, because it
mi^ht be so very misleading.
Senator Smith. I will not press it, Mr. Ismay.
Mr. Ismay. I will give it to you, gladly.
Senator Smith. Perhaps you can furnish us with that information.
Mr. Ismay. Certainly; I can give you the exact figures.
Senator Smith. Can you, in the same connection, give us your
estimated figures upon the earning capacity of the Titanic at this time
of the year ?
Mr. Ismay. What profit she would have left on the voyage ?
Senator Smith. Wnat gross return and what net return per trip
you had figured on.
Mr. Ismay. No; I could not give you that. We have the figures of
the OlymjnCj of course, which would be on the same lines as those of
the Titanic. The ships were practically sister ships.
Senator Smith. Can you tell me whether the ships or vessels of the
lines of which vou are managing director are classed in any of the
accepted classifications or societies ?
Mr. Ismay. Some of the ships, I believe, are classed in Lloyd's, So
far as the White Star Line are concerned, they have never classed any
of their ships, as the ships have always been built far in excess of any
of those requirements. We have always been in the habit of taking
out a passenger certificate on all our snips, which is a check on our
own people that those ships have been kept absolutely up to the mark.
Senator Smith. In letting contracts lor building your ships, and
particularly the Titanic^ was there any limit of cost placed on the
contractors who built the ship ?
914 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. We have never bmlt a ship with Messrs. Har-
land & Wolff by contract at all. They have carte olanche to build the
ship and put everything of the very best into that ship, and after they
have spent all the money they can on her they add on their commis-
sion to the gross cost of the ship, which we pay them. We have never
built a ship by contract.
Senator Smith. The plans that are made are made by your engi-
neers or theirs ?
Mr. Ism AY. The plans?
Senator Smith. The plans, drawings, and specifications.
Mr. IsMAir. Messrs. Harland & Wolff prepare the plans. They are
then submitted to us, to the directors of tne White Star Line or to
the manager of the \Vhite Star Line. They are carefully gone through
with the representatives from the shipbuilders. They try to make
suggestions to improve those plans. They are taken back and thor-
oughly thrashed out again, and they are submitted, I should be afraid
to say how often. You see, when you build a ship you have to start
building her probably five or six years before you want her.
Senator Smith. Who of your company directed the Harland &
Wolff Co. to build the Titariicf
Mr. IsMAY. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say to them?
Mr. Ism AY. It is verjr difficult for me to say what I said. It would
be in a conversation with Lord Pirrie, that we had decided to build
the Olympic and the Titanic,
Senator Smith. Were both ships ordered at the same time? .
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What did you say to them? Did you say, '*We
want the largest and best ship that you can build safely" ?
Mr. IsMAY. We would naturally try to get the best ship we possibly
could. We wanted the best ship crossing the north Atlantic when we
built her.
Senator Smith. And when you gave the order that was your
instruction ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you made no limitation as to cost?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely none.
Senator Smith. You were content that they should build that ship
at whatever it cost to build it?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir. What we wanted was the very best ship they
could possibly produce.
Senator Smith. You examined this ship, I assume, on the voyage
from Liverpool to the place of the accident, from time to time i
Mr. Ismay. I was never outside the first-class passenger accommo-
dations on board the ship, sir. I never went in any part of that ship
that any otlier first-class passenger had not a perfect right to go to.
I had not made any inspection of the ship at all.
Senator Smith. From that do you wish to be understood as saying
that you were not officially on board the ship for the purpose of
inspecting ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; I do not. I was there to inspect the ship and
see if there were an}^ defects in her, with the idea of not repeating
them in the otlier ship which we are now building at Belfast.
Senator wSmith. You are building another slxip of the same type
now?
1
'* TITANIC '' DISASTER. 915
Mr. IsMAY. We are now buildine a sister ship to the Olympic.
Senator Smith. Did you make these observations?
ilr. IsMAY. No, sir; 1 had not been around the ship.
Senator Smith. Did you have it in mind to do so ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes. I should have gone around the ship before we
arrived at New York.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Andrews go about the ship?
Mr. IsMAY. He was about the ship all the time, I believe.
Senator Smith. Inspecting and examining her?
Mr. IsMAY. I think so. Naturallv, in a smp of that size, there were
a great many minor defects on board the ship, which he was rectifying.
I think there were probably three or four apprentices on board from
Messrs. Harland & Wolff's shipbuilding yara, who were there to right
any small detail which was wrong.
Senator Smith. On the spot ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes. A door might jam, or a pipe might burst, or any-
thing like that, and they were there to make it good at once.
Senator Smith. Did Mr. Andrews bring these men for that purpose ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you yourself have opportunity to confer with
Mr. Andrews during the voyage from Southampton to the place of this
accident ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not. Mr. Andrews dined with me one
night. We had no conversation, really, in regard to the ship. Indeed,
the only plan which Mr. Andrews submitted to me was a plan where he
said he. thought the writing room and reading room was unnecessarily
large, and he said he saw a way of putting a stateroom in the forward
end of it. That was a matter which would have been taken up and
thoroughly discussed after we got back to England.
Senator Smith. Were you in conference with the captain during
this journey from Southampton ?
Mr. IsMAY. I was never in the captain's room the whole voyage over,
sir, and the captain was never in my room. I never had any conver-
sation with the captain except casual conversation on the deck.
Senator Smith. Were you on the bridge at any time ?
Mr. IsMAY. I was never on the bridge until after the accident.
Senator Smith. How long after the accident t
Mr. IsMAY. I should thir^ it might have been 10 minutes.
Senator Smith. Was the captain there at that time ?
Mr. IsMAY. The captain was there; yes.
Senator Smith. Was that the only time you saw the captain on the
bridge ?
Mr. IsMAY. I saw him afterwards, when I went up the second time
to the bridge.
Senator Smith. How long after ?
Mr. IsMAY. I should think it might be 35 minutes. It is very
difRcult to place the time.
Senator omith. After the impact ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What, if anything, did he say to you about the
collision ?
Mr. IsMAY. The only conversation I had with Capt. Smith was when
I went up on the bridge. I asked him what had happened, and he said
we had struck ice.
40475— PT 11—12 2
<{ ...... «*.^ fT
916 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I believe you said you dined on Sunday evening
with the surgeon of the Tiianicf
Mr. IsMAY. Yes. I was all alone, so I asked Dr. O'Loughlin to
eome and dine with me, and he dined with me in the restaurant at
half-past 7.
Senator Smith. And no other person was present at that table
except yourself and him?
Mr. IsMAY. No other persons were present excepting the doctor and
myself, sir.
Senator Smith. Did the doctor survive ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know where the captain dined on Sunday
evening?
Mr. ISMAY. He dined in the restaurant.
Senator SMrrn^* The same place that you dined ?
Mr. IsMAY. In the same room; yes.
Senator Smfth. At the same hour i
Mr. IsMAY. I do not know what time he dined. I saw him in the
room dining.
Senator SMrrn. With whom ?
Mr. IsMAY. I beUeve he dined with Mr. and Mrs. Widener.
Senator Smith. Do you know anyone else who was at the table ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think Mr. and Mrs. Karger were there, and Mr. and
Mrs. Thayer.
Senator Smith. Was Maj. Butt there?
Mr. Ismay. I did not see him. I could not see the whole of the
fable; I could see only part of it.
Senator Smith. In what part of the dining room were they dining,
with reference to yourself ?
Mr. IsMAY. They were dining at the forward end of the restaurant.
Senator SMrrn. On which side ?
Mr. Ismay. The starboard side.
Senator Smith. And you were dining
Mr. Ismay. I was dinmg in the middle of the room on the same side
ef the ship. They were dining in an alcove; part of their table was
in an alcove. I could not see me whole of their table. In fact, I was
sitting with my back toward them.
Senator SMrrn. You dined at half past 7 ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long did vou remain at the table ?
Mr. Ismay. I should think half or three-quarters of an hour.
Senator Smfth. During all that time was the captain at his table ?
Mr. Ismay. They were sitting at the table when I went out of the
room, sir.
Senator Smith. When, with reference to his time of dining, did you
next see the captain ?
Mr. Ismay. On the bridge, sir.
Senator Smith. At the time just spoken of?
Mr. Ismay. After the accident.
Senator Smith. Did you dine with the captain at all on the trip
from Southampton to the place of the accident ?
Mr. Ismay. 1 think he dmed with me on Friday night.
Senator Smith. Is that the only time ?
it ^^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTBJBU 917
Mr. IsMAY. The only time. He left us immediately after dinner.
I went into my own room with the people who were dining with me,
and we sat in my room and played bridge. But I never saw the cap-
tain after we left the restaurant. He never came near my room.
Senator Smith. Had you known the captain of that ship some time ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; I had known him a great many years.
Senator Smiih. On what ships of your line had he been captain ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think he had oeen commander of a great many of
them. The first time I remember Capt. Smith being commander of
one of our ships was when he was in command of one of our cargo
boats called the Cujic, a great many years ago. He was in command
of the Olympic, he was in the Adriatic, the Baltic, and the old Brit-
tanic, I can not remember them all, sir. We have a record in the
office of every ship he has commanded.
Senator Smith. In this journey from Southampton to the place of
the accident did he seem to be in good health ?
Mr. IsMAY. As far as I saw, sir; as far as I was able to judge, at
least.
Senator Smith. Do you know his age ?
Mr. IsMAY. I would not like to be absolutely certain about it, but
I think he was about 62.
Senator Smith. Do you yourself know anything about the con-
struction of vessels; I mean technically?
Mr. Ism AY. No; I could not say I do.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether the Titanic was classed
100-A according to Lloyd^s register?
Mr. IsMAY. It was in no class, so far as I know. We never classed
anv of the boats.
^nator Smith. Do you know whether she was fitted with an
inner skin or longitudinal bulkhead between the tank deck and the
water line ?
Mr. IsMAY. She had no midship bulkhead, but she had a double
bottom. She had a double bottom fore and aft.
Senator Smith. Fore and aft ?
Mr. IsBiiAY. Yes; the whole length of the ship.
Senator Smith. In ordering that vessel, did you give Harland &
Wolff any special instructions with reference to her safety ?
Mr. IsMAY. We were very anxious indeed to have a ship which
would float with her two largest water-tight compartments full of
water. What we wanted to guard against was any steamer running
into the ship and hitting her on a bulkhead, because if the ship ran
into her broadside on and happened to hit her right on a bulknead,
that would open up two big compartments, and we were anxious to
fiard against the possibiUty of that happening; and the Olympic and
itanic were so constructed that they would float with the two largest
compartments full of water
Senator Smith. You remember, I think, the statement of the
wheelman, Hichens, that the last thing he did before striking the
iceberg was to so turn his wheel as to avoid contact directly witn the
bow, tne extreme bow ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you recall that ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think he said he was told ''Hard aport,'' and then
"Hard astarboard,*' if I remember rightly.
n «.,.«. ^^,« 'f
918 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And then that threw the vessel-
Mr. IsMAY (interposing). He wanted to throw his quarter up.
Senator Smith. Suppose that had not been done, Air. Ismar, and
the ship had met this iceberg bows on; what would have been thf
effect, in your judgment ?
Mr. IsMAY. It is really impossible to say. It is only a matter of
opinion. I think the snip would have crushed her Ibows in, and
might not have sunk.
Senator Smith. She might not have sunk ?
Mr. IsMAY. She might not have sunk. I think it would have taken
a very brave man to have kept his ship going straight on an iceberg.
I think he should have endeavored to avoid it.
Senator Smith. What I am getting at is this, whether in the con-
struction of this ship, which was intended for the North Atlantic
and in which naturally the designers and builders had planned for
such exigencies as might occur off the Grand Banks of Newfound-
land, she Was built with special reference to her resistance at the bow i
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. For that purpose ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. I thmk the only ships in which they do that
are ships trading to the St. Lawrence. I understand that on the
forward end those ships are very often fitted with double plates bo-
cause they have to go through field ice.
Senator Smith, 'fliat has been for the purpose of concentratinj?
sufficient resistance at the bow to stand the brunt of a collision with
ice ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I think it is done for protection against the
field ice.
Senator Smith. Against field ice only ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; at least that is my understanding.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect the captain of the Carpaihia
saying that if the Titanic had hit this icebei^ dows on she woula have
been in New York Harbor instead of at the Dottom of the sea ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not remember him saying that, sir.
Senator Smith. From your experience m building ships or in
authorizing their construction, and from your knowledge of that
profession or trade, would you regard a collision on a bulkhead,
opening two compartments," as the most serious damage she was
likely to encounter.
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you accordingly provided against that ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. There has been considerable confusion about the
cost of the Titanic, I will take the liberty of asking you to state it.
Mr. IsMAY. She cost $7,500,000, sir.
Senator Smith. And for how much was she insured t
Mr. IsMAY. For $5,000,000, I understand, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything to do with the insurance ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; very httle. That is done in New York; that is
dealt with and handled in New York.
Senator Smith. I will ask you whether you know of any attempt
being made to reinsure any part of the vessel on Monday, tne 14th of
April?
<( «— . ^^.^ ff
TITAKIC DISASTBB. 919
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely none, sir; and I can not imagine anybody
connected with the International Mercantile Marine Co. endeavoring
to do such a dishonorable thing.
Senator Smith. I do not want you to understand me to assert that
it was attempted.
Mr. IsiiAY. I know, sir; but it is such a horrible accusation to have
been made.
Senator SMriH. You would regard it as a very dishonorable thing
to do?
Mr. IsMAY. It would have been taking advantage of private knowl-
edge which was in my possession; yes, sir. Yes, sir; I should so
regard it.
Senator Smith. Was the knowledge of the sinking of the Titanic that
was in your possession communicated by you to your company in
Liverpool or to your offices in New York on the journey from the
place of the collision to New York ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir. I sent the message on Monday morning, very
shortly after I got on board the Carpathia. The captain came down
to me and said, ''Don't you think, sir, you had better send a message
to New York, telling tnem about this accident?" I said, ''Yes."
I wrote it out on a sUp of paper, and I turned to the commander of the
Carpathia and I said, "Captain, do you think that is all I can tell
them?" He said, "Yes." Then he took it away from the room.
I have a copy here, sir, of every Marconi message which I sent away
from the Carpathia, I had no communication with any other ship,
and there is a record of every message wliich I received.
Senator Smith. Please read them. This is over your own signa-
ture, or your cipher or the cipher or code of your company ?
Mr. Ismay. This is a copy of every message that I sent away from
the Carpathia, I do not tnmk I have them exactly in the right order,
because I put no dates on them; but I have the date here that they
w^ere received by Mr. Franklin.
The first message I sent was on April 15, which was on Monday
morning.
Senator Smith. At what hour ?
Mr. Ismay. I have not got the hour, sir, but I should think it was
about 8 o^clock.
Senator Smith. You say that shortly after you boarded the Car-
pathiayoxi sent this message?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You boarded the Carpathia about sunrise ?
Mr. Ismay. I think that I boarded the ship Carpathia at a quarter
to 6 or a quarter past 6.
Senator Smith. Ship's time?
Mr. Ismay. Yes. 1 happened to see a clock somewhere on the ship
when I got on her.
Senator Smith. Ship's time ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
This is the message I sent, which was received by Mr. Franklin on
the 17th of April, 1912. I would like to draw your attention to the
fact that I sent the message on the 15th of April, and it did not reach
Mr. Franklin until the 17th of April.
Senator Smith. How are vou able to say that, Mr. Ismay?
Mr. Ismay. Mr. Franklin lias told me so.
ti ^^«.^^^^ ff
920 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. But of your own knowledge you do not know it ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Mr. Franklin. The original telegram is there, Senator Smith, with
the stamp of the company on the back of it.
Mr. IsMAY. I think you have the originals of all of these.
Senator Smith. They are not in evidence ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. They were introduced in bulk, were they not ?
Mr. Franklin. That particular telegram was read in evidence the
first day in Washington, and is in your possession. It was read yes-
terday a week ago here in Washington, and the telegram is in vour
possession, with the telegraph company's stamp on it, with the ^ate.
Senator Smith. It will not take long, and I think I would like to
have you read them, inasmuch as they came from you.
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; I will do so.
This is a message I sent on April 15:
Deeply regret advise you Titanic sank this morning after collision iceberg, resulting
serious loss life. Full particulars later.
That message was signed '^Bruce Ismay.'^
The next one I sent, but I do not know the date of it, but pre-
sumably it was received by Mr. Franklin on the 17th of April at 9
a.m. I wired:
Very important you should hold Cedric daylight Friday for Titanic^ s crew. Answer.
Yamsi.
This is a message sent by Mr. Franklin to me on April 17, 1912, at
3.30 p. m.:
So thankful you are saved, but grieving with you over terrible calamity. Shall
sail Saturday to return with you. Florence.
That was from my wife, and was forwarded to me by Mr. Franklin,
who said :
Accept my deepest sympathy horrible catastrophe. Will meet you aboard Car-
pathia after docking . Is Widener aboard ?
Senator Smith. Who signed that ?
Mr. IsMAY. That was signed ''Franklin.''
This is a message I sent. I have not the date of it, but it was re-
ceived by Mr. Franklin on April 17, 1912, at 5.20 p. m.:
MoBt desirable Titanic crew aboard Carpathia should be returned home earliest
moment possible. Surest you hold Cedric^ sailing her daylight Friday, unless you see
any reason contrar>'. rropose returning in her myself. Flease send outfit of clothes,
including shoes, for me to Cedric. Have nothing of my own. Please reply.
Yamsi.
This is a message I received from Mr. Franklin, which was dis-
patched by wire on the 17tli of April, 1912, at 8 p. m. :
Have arranged forward crew Lapland sailing Saturday, calling Plymouth. AVe all
consider most unwise delay Cedric considering all circumstances.
Frankun,
This is a message I sent
Senator Smith (interposing). What time was that last message?
Mr. IsMAY. Mr. Franklin sent that at 8 p. m., April 17. I have
no record of the time I received them.
Senator Smith. That was Wednesday evening ?
Mr. IsMAY. Wednesday.
Senator Smith. At 8 p. m. ?
it ^^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 921
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
I sent a message which was received by Mr. Franklin on the 18th of
April, at 5.35 a. m., as follows:
Send responsible ship officer and 14 Wliite Star sailors in two tugboats to take charge
of 13 Titanic boats, at quarantine.
Yambl
That message I sent at the request of the captain of the Carpathian
who told him it would be impossible to dock trie ship with these life-
boats on deck. He was all hampered up, and would not be able to
handle his ropes and what not. I drew up that message and showed
it to the captain and asked if that would answer the purpose, and h«
said '* Yes, and I gave it to him, and he sent it, I presume.
I telegraphed Mr. Franklin, or marconied him, and he received it ob
the 18th of April, 1912, at 5.35 a. m.:
Plea^ join Carpatkia at quarantine if possible.
I sent a further message, which Mr. Franklin received on April 1^,
1912, at 8 a. m., as follows:
Very important you should hold Cedrie daylight Friday for Titanic crew. Reply.
Yam 81.
I sent a further message, which was received by Mr. Franklin on
April 18, 1912, at 8.23 a. m.:
Think most unwise keep Titanic crew until Saturday. Strongly urge detain Cedrie
sailing her midnight, if desirable.
I sent another message, which was received by Mr. Franklin on
April 18, 1912, at 8.44 a. m.:
Unless you have good and sufficient reason for not holding Cedrie^ please arrange
do so. Most undesirable have crew New York so long.
This is a message which Mr. Franklin dispatched to me on the 18th
of April, 1912, at 4.45 p. m., and which I received when the Car^thia
got alongside the dock in New York, which was handed to me in the
room:
Concise marconigram account of actual accident greatly needed for enlightenment
public and ourselves. This most important.
Franklin.
Senator Smith. What time was that?
Mr. IsMAY. It was sent by Mr. Franklin on the 18th of April, at
4.45 p. m.
Senator Smith. That was the day you reached New York ?
Mr. IsMAY. I received it, I presume, about 9 o^clock that night,
when we were alongside the dock.
Then I sent this message to Mr. Franklin, which he received on
April 18, 1912, at 5.38 p. m.:
Widener not aboard. Hope see you quarantine. Please cable wife am returning
Cedrie.
Yamsi.
That is a copy of every message I sent and every message I received
and I had absolutelv no communication with any other ship or any
shore station, or witli anyone.
Senator Smfth. Judging from the messages, it was your intention
to return the night you landed, if possible, to Liverpool?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir. At that time, you understand, I had not the
slightest idea there was going to be any investigation of this sort.
922 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. When did you first learn of the investigation ?
Mr. IsMAY. Five minutes before I saw you, sir.
Senator Smith. Who informed vou ?
Mr. IsMAY. Mr. Franklin. I tnink you came on board the ship
with him, did you not, or about the same time ?
Senator Smith. I followed very shortly.
Mr. IsMAY. That is the first information I had that there was
going to be any investigation.
Senator Smith. The committee has before it a special number of
The Shipbuilder, volume 6, midsummer, 1911. This, presumably,
has been examined by your engineer.
Do you know whether the committee can accept this article as a
correct general description of the Titanicf
Mr. IsMAY. I can not say, sir.
Senator Smith. You are not vourself personally familiar with it ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. We will be pleased to give you any drawing?
which you mav wish to have of anj part of the ship. Any information
you want is absolutely at your disposal, if you will simply give us an
indication of what you want — all drawings and plans, and in every
incidental and detail.
Senator Smith. Some little confusion has arisen over your state-
ment in your testimonv as to the number of revolutions made by the
Titanic, I understood you to say that at certain times she made 70
revolutions, at another time 75, and, finally, 80. Am I incorrect ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; I do not think I said that. If I did, I had no
intention of doing so.
Senator Smith. How would you wish to be understood on that
matter ?
Mr. IsMAY. My recollection is that between Southampton and
Cherbourg we ran at 60 revolutions, from Cherbourg to Queenstown
at 70 revolutions, and when we left Queenstown we were running at
72 revolutions, and I believe that the ship was worked up to 75 revo-
lutions, but I really have no accurate knowledge of that.
Senator Smith. How many knots per hour would that indicate
at her maximum speed ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not tell you that, sir.
Senator Smith. How many knots per hour ?
Mr. IsMAY. The whole thing has been absolutely worked out.
Senator Smith. But you yourself are unable to answer ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; that has all been worked out, the speed of the
ship has been worked out at a certain number of revolutions. Her
speed would depend absolutely on the slip, as I understand.
Senator Smith. Was she running at her maximum speed at the time
she was making 75 revolutions ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. My understanding is, or I am told — because
I really have no technical laiowledge — that the engines were balanced,
and would run their best, at 78 revolutions. They were built for 78
revolutions.
Senator Smith. How many knots per hour would that indicate
her speed to be ?
Mr. IsMAY. I heard one gentleman here on the stand say that he
expected the ship to go 25 knots, sir. All that we expected the
Titanic to do was to have the same speed as the Olympic,
Senator Smith. You were not looking for any greater speed, and
were not crowding her for that puq^ose i
^
t ( -,,,« . ^^, ^ ff
TITANIC DISA8TEE. 923
Mr. IsMAY. We did not expect the ship to make any better speed
than the Olympic; no, sir.
Senator Smith. And you wish to be understood as saying that she
was not going at her maximum speed at the time this accident
occurred ?
Mr. IsMAY. To the best of my knowledge, the ship was not going
at full speed. I think if you will refer to my testimony which I gave
to you on Friday, you will find I then stated that, assuming all the
conditions were absolutely favorable, the intention was to have a
run-out of the ship on either Monday or Tuesday, at full speed,
assuming that eveiything was satisfactory.
Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with the captain with
reference to the speed o^ the ship ?
Mr. IsMAY. Never, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you, at any time, urge him to greater speed ?
Mr. IsBiAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any one who urged him to greater
speed than he was making when the snip was making 70 revolutions ?
Mr. IsMAY. It is really mipossible to imagine such a thing on board
ship.
senator Smith. Did you, in your position of general manager of
this company, undertake in any way to influence or direct the manage-
ment of that ship, from the time she left Southampton until the time
of the accident ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not. The matter would be entirely out
of my province.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether
the usual stability investigations were completed and curves of
stability furnished the White Star Line?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; I beUeve that the shin was tested when she was
in Southampton; I forget the proper word for it — ^inclined.
Senator Smith. She was inclined ?
Mr. IsMAY. She was inclined.
Senator Smith. Do vou know who made those tests ?
Mr. IsMAY. Ilarlana and Wolff's representatives ; I do not know
who. I beheve Mr. Andrews himself was there.
Senator Smith. That is not a part of the tests that are made bv the
British Board of Trade ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. I beheve you stated, in your testimony given the
other day, a conversation with Mr. Charles M. Hays, president of the
Grand Trunk Railway.
Mr. IsMAY. I very often talked to Mr. Ilays on board the ship.
Senator Smith. From whom did Mr. Ilays receive the assurance,
after the accident, that the Titanic was good for 10 hours, in any
event ?
Mr. IsMAY. I have no idea, sir.
Senator Smith. He did not receive any such assurance from j-ou ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Nor did you receive any such assurance from the
captain ?
\lr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any reports made to the captain
regarding the extent of the damage ?
t< ^^ ^^^ if
924 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. Or the water that had entered the vessel %
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Smith. And the captain made no report to you ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When you were on the bridge with the captain,
after the accident, did he say anything to you aoout her condition at
that time ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; as I told you on Friday, when I went up to aj^k
him what had happened, he told me we had struck an iceberg, and I
asked him whether he thought the matter was serious, and he said
he thought it was.
Senator Smith. That was the first intimation you had %
Mr. IsMAY. That was the first intimation I had.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any order given to call the pas-
sengers ?
Mr. Ismay. I did not, sir.
Senator Smith. Or any other alarm ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did tlie chief engineer of the Titanic state to you
the extent of the damage ?
Mr. Ismay. He said that he thought the damage was serious; that
he hoped the pumps would be able to control the water.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the impact?
Mr. Ismay. I should think it would be perhaps a half an hour
afterwards; 35 or 40 minutes.
Senator Smith. Did you give any instructions to either the captain
or the chief engineer of the TitaniCj either before or after the catas-
trophe ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know in what manner the officers of the
Titanic were selected ?
Mr. Ismay. The officers of the Titanic would be appointed by our
marine superintendent.
Senator Smith. Does that include all of the officers? Does that
include the captain ?
Mr. Ismay. No; not the captain.
Senator Smith. Was he the first commander of the Olympic?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Smith. It was rather a custom, was it not, that had grown
up among the officers of your company to put Capt. Smith in com-
mand of your new vessels as they appeared from time to time ?
Mr. Ismay. I think Cant. Smith had brought out a great number of
our new ships. I think ne brought out the Adriatic. I am not sure
that he did not bring out the Baltic. He was looked upon as our
senior commander. v
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he had had any serious
trouble in the management of your ships previous to this calamity ?
Mr. Ismay. Do you mean to say serious accident ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Ismay. Capt. Smith was a man who had a very, very clear
record. I should think very few commanders crossing the Atlantic
have as good a record as Capt. Smith had, until he had the unfortunate
colhsion with the Hawk.
'' TITANIC " DISASTBB. 925
Senator Smith. With the Hawk?
Mr. IsMAY. The colUsion between the Olympic and the Hawk.
Senator Smith. When did that occur?
Mr. IsMAY. It was in either August or September of last year.
Senator Smith. And where ?
Mr. Ismay. In the Solent.
Senator Smith. Where 1
Mr. Ismay. In the Solent; down by the Isle of Wight.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he at any time had had any
accidents to his ships in the North Atlantic ?
Mr. Ismay. Not that I remember, sir. I think he had an excep-
tionally clear record.
Senator Smith. Did the collision which occurred between the
Olympic and the Hawk in any way shake your confidence in Capt.
Smith?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. If it had, he would probably not have been ap-
pointed as commander of the Tiianicf
Mr. Ismay. Quite true.
Senator Smith. WTio was the chief engineer of the Tiianicf
Mr. Ismay. Mr. Bell.
Senato.* Smith. Did he survive?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; he did not.
Senator Smith. Did any of the engineers survive ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not think a single engineer officer survived.
Senator Smith. What was Mr. Bell's experience; I mean, what
experience had he had as chief engineer ?
3lr. Ismay. He had had a very long experience, and he was an
extremely good man. He was with the Olympic practically during
the whole term of her construction.
Senator Smith. How old was ne ?
Mr. Ismay. I should think he was a man of about 48 or 50. He
was sent over to Belfast, wnen the Olympic was being bui!t, and he
remained in Belfast during the whole of the time she was being built,
supe. -in tending her construction, making anv suggestions which he
thought would lead to improvements. He Drought the sliip out to
New York on her first voyage as chief enginee; on board the ship.
We put one of our other senior engineers on board the Olympic with
Mr. Bell, a man called Mr. Fleming, so that he could have the experi-
ence of the Olympic and get accustomed to her, and then he took
charge of her. I think they ran together for about two voyages, and
we then brought Mr. Bell again ashore, and he was present during the
whole time of the construction of the Titanic and brought her out as
chief engineer.
Senator Smith. How does it happen that the Titanic had but 20
lifeboats, including lifeboats, emergency boats, and collapsibles ?
Mr. Ismay. That was a matter for the builders, sir, and I presume
that they were fulfilling all the requirements of the board of trade.
Senator Smith. Do you know wnether they were ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not know of my own knowledge, but I am con-
vinced that they must have done so, because otherwise the ship never
could have left port. We never could have gotten our clearance.
Senator Smith. How is. the apportionment of lifeboats made, do
you know?
t ( -^-. . ^^-^ 9 7
926 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Is it made on tonnage ?
Mr. IsMAT. It is based on tonnage.
Senator Smith. On tonnage entirely ?
Mr. IsMAT. On tonnage entirely, I oelieve.
Senator Smith. That would not include passenger capacity ?
Mr. Ismay. Noj sir; it is on the tonnage of the ship. I think the
boatage is determined by the register of the ship — the tonnage register
of the ship.
Senator Smith. Let me ask you, Mr. Ismay, whether in view of this
experience you have just gone through you would not consider it
desirable to have the apportionment of lifeboats based upon pas-
senger capacity rather than tonnage ?
Mr. Ismay. I think the result of this horrible accident is that the
whole question of life-saving appliances on board vessels and ships
will be very carefully gone through and receive the most full and
careful consideration to see what is the best thing to be done.
Senator Smith. Have you yourself taken any steps in that direction
since the accident ?
Mr. Ismay. No, I have not. My mind has been so fully occupied
with other questions that I have not; but it is a matter that will be
taken up as soon as I get home with oiu* shipbuilding friends and with
our experts.
Senator SMrrn. Do you know of any changes contemplated by the
British Board of Trade prior to the Titanic accident in tne number of
lifeboats to be carried by passenger steamers ?
Mr. Ismay. I do not, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you familiar with a paper read at the spring
meeting of the fifty-third session of the Institution of Naval Archi-
tects, March 19, 1912, entitled, '*The Arrangement of Boat Installa-
tions on Modern Ships,'' by Axel Welin?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir. I know Mr. Welin.
Senator Smith. You do know Mr. Welin ?
Mr. Ismay. He is the davit man, the man who has these patent
davits, is he not ?
Senator Smith. I think he is the same man.
Mr. Ismay. I think they are called the W^elin davits.
Senator Smith. Yes. Do you know him ?
Mr. Ismay. I met him once, I think.
Senator Smith. I desire to read into the record a very short quota-
tion from that article.
On the boat deck of the Wliite Star liner Olympic and also of the TUanir this double-
acting type of davit has been titted throughout in \'iew of coming changes in official
regulations. It was considered wise by the o^iiers that these changes should be thus
anticipated and so make it possible to double, or even treble, the number of boat^
without any structural alterations should such increase ultimately prove to be
necessary.
Will you kindly explain, if you can, what the White Star Line had
in contemplation in so arranmig the davits ?
Mr. Ismay. Nothing that I know of, sir.
Senator Smith. Had the Titanic carried double the number of life-
boats or treble the number of lifeboats, do you consider that there
might have been an increase in the number of passengers and crew
saved ?
(( »*.«.^**>« yf
TITANIC DISASTEB. 927
Mr. IsMAY. I think that is quite probable, sir.
Senator Smith. I do not want to commit you to any special course
in your company, and presume I will not do so, by this mquiry; but
in view of all that has occurred, are you willing to say that the pro-
portion of lifeboats should be increased to more approximately meet
such exigencies as you have just passed through?
Mr. IsMAY. I thmk, having regard to our experience, there is no
question that that should be done; but I think it may be quite possi-
ble to improve on the construction of the ship.
Senator Smith. Also ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you given any instructions to increase the
lifeboat capacity of other White Star ships ?
Mr. Ismay. We have given instructions that no ship belonging to
the I. M. M. Co. is to leave any port unless she has sufficient boats on
board for the accommodation of all the passengers and the whole of
the crew.
Senator Smith. Who gave those instructions ?
Mr. Ismay. I did, sir.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. Ismay. The day after I landed from the Carpaihia.
Senator Smith. Have you any knowledge as to whether that has
been done ?
Mr. Ismay. I know, sir, that no ship of that company will sail from
any port unless she has sufficient boats to carry the number of passen-
gers she has on board. It may be necessary, and probably will be
necessary, to reduce the number of passengers in the cabins.
Senator Smith. But by that course you exceed the requirements of
the regulations of the British Board of Trade ?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely. Our ships all now conform to the board
of trade regulations, without putting the additional boats on.
Senator Smith. I understand that. But vou evidently do not
regard the regulation of the British Board oi Trade as sufficient to
protect the lives of your passengers ?
Mr. Ismay. Not after our unfortunate experience, sir; that is so.
Senator Smith. When were those regulations made ?
Mr. Ismay. I could not tell you. I could not answer that.
Senator Smith. Are they ol^ regulations ?
Mr. Ismay. I could not say.
Senator Smith. You speak of improvements in the construction of
your ships. Have you any ideas or suggestions as to improvements
in the construction of ships which you would care to impart to the
committee ?
Mr. Ismay. As I have told you, I have no technical knowledge about
shipbuilding, and this is a matter which we would take up with our
shipbuilding friends, and also with our own marine superintendents.
I do not know whether it would be feasible to carry the bulkheads up
anj higher; I do not know whether it would be feasible to build a
ship with a double hull, anyway, up to just about water line, to carry
her double bottom higher up the side of the ship. Of course, you
understand that now, with the double bottom, if the ship runs on
rocks and pierces the outside bottom, she will float on the inside
bottom. ^
928 TITANIC DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. Can you make any suggestions as to improvements
in water-tight compartments that would make more certain the ship
floating ?
Mr. IsMAY. You mean to say strengthening the bulkheads ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. IsMAT. I could not do that^ sir; because that end of it is a
questions of figures, is it not?
Senator Smith. I think in my prior examination in New York you
said you entered the lifeboat from the A deck ?
Mr. IsMAY. From the boat deck, sir.
Senator Smith. And that at the time there were no other persons
around; no women, particularly?
Mr. IsMAT. Absolutely none that I saw, sir.
Senator Smith. Was that the last lifeboat or the last collapsible
boat to leave?
Mr. IsMAT. It was the last collapsible boat that left the starboard
side of the ship.
Senator Smith. Was it filled to its capacity ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; it was not.
Senator Smith. Why?
Mr. IsMAY. I understand the full capacity of one of those boats
is about 60 to 65.
Senator Smith. Of the collapsible ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not know whether the capacity of the collapsible
is the same as that of the wooden boat.
Senator Smith. It was not filled to its capacity ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many people were in it ?
Mr. IsMAY. I should think there were about 40 women in it, and
some children. Tliere was a child in arms. I think they were all
third-class passengers, so far as I could see.
Senator Smith. And this boat was from the starboard side of the
boat deck, or top deck, near the bridge ?
Mr. IsMAY. 1 es, sir.
Senator Smith. At the time you entered it, did you say anything
to the captain about entering it ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I did not. I never saw the captain.
Senator Smith. Did he say anything to you about your entering it ?
Mr. Ism AY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who, if any one, told you to enter that lifeboat ?
Mr, IsMAY. No one, sir.
Senator Smith. Why did you enter it ?
Mr. Ismay. Because there was room in the boat. She was being
lowered away. I felt the ship was going down, and I got into the
boat.
Senator Smith. Did you yourself see any icebergs at daybreak the
following morning?
Mr. Ismay. I should think I saw four or five icebergs when day broke
on Monday morning.
Senator Smith. How near the scene of the Titanic disaster ?
Mr. Ismay. I could not tell where she went down. We were some
distance away from it.
Senator Smith. Did you see the steamship CaMfornian that
morning ?
tt . ^,,_ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 929
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Not desiring to be impertinent at all, but in order
that I may not be charged with omitting to do my duty, I would
like to know where you went after you boarded the Carpathia, and
how you happened to go there?
Mr. IsMAY. Mr. Chairman, I understand that my* behavior on
board the Titanic, and subsequently on board the CarpcUhiaj has
been very severely criticized. I want to court the fullest inquiry,
and I place myself unreservedly in the hands of yourself and any of
your colleagues, to ask me any questions in regard to my conduct;
so please do not hesitate to do so, and I will answer them to the best
of my abiUty. So far as the Carpathia is concerned, sir, when I got
on board the ship I stood up with nay back against the bulkhead,
and somebody came up to me and said, *^Will you not go into the
saloon and get some soup, or something to drink?'' J 'No," I said.
[ vou will get n
I can be quiet, I wish you would. He said, * 'Please go in the saloon
and get something hot." I said, ''I would rather not." Then he
took me and put me into a room. I did not know whose the room
was, at all. This man proved to be the doctor of the Carpathia, I
was in that room until I left the ship. I was never outside the door
of that room. During the whole of the time I was in this room, I
never had anything of a solid nature, at all; I lived on soup. I did
not want very much of anything. The room was constantly being
entered by people asking for the doctor. The doctor did i^ot sleep
in the room the first night. The doctor slept in the room the other
nights that I was on board that ship. Mr. Jack Thayer was brought
into the room the morning we got on board the Carpathia, He
stayed in the room for some Uttle time, and the doctor came in after
he nad been in, I should think, about a quarter of an hour, and he
said to this young boy, ** Would you not Uke something to eat?"
He said, ''I would hke some bacon and eggs;" which he had. The
doctor did not have a suite of rooms on the ship. He simply had
this one small room, which he himself occupied and dressed m every
night and morning
Senator Smith. Did he keep his medicines and bandages there ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; he kept them in the dispensary; in the
surgery.
Senator Smith. Right near this room ?
Mr. IsMAY. I have no idea where it was. As I tell you, I was never
outside of that room from the time I entered it.
Senator Smith. In view of your statement, I desire to say that I
have seen none of these comments to which vou refer. In fact, I
have not read the newspapers since I started for New York; I have
deliberately avoided it; so that I have seen none of these reports,
and vou do not understand that I have made any criticism upon your
conduct aboard the Carpathia?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. * On the contrary, I do not say that anybody
has. But I am here to answer any questions in regard thereto.
Senator Smith. What can you say, Mr. Ismay, as to your treat-
ment at the hands of the committee since you have been under our
direction ?
930 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. IsMAY. I have no fault to find. Naturally, I was disappointed
in not being allowed to go home; but I feel quite satisfied you have
some very good reason in your own mind for keeping me here.
Senator Smith. You quite agree now that it was the wisest thing
to do?
Mr. IsMAY. I think, under the circumstances, it was.
Senator Smith. And even in my refusal to permit you to go you
saw no discourtesy ?
Mr. IsMAY. Certainly not, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any unfair or discourteous or
inconsiderate treatment upon the part of the committee of any of
your officers connected with this investigation ?
Mr. Ism AY. No; I do not.
Senator Smith. In order that I may make the record absolutely
clear, have you any objection to me putting into the record your
letter to me and my reply to you regarding your departure ?
Mr. IsMAY. Not the slightest.
The letters referred to are here printed in full in the record^ as
follows:
Washington, D, C, April 25^ 1912.
Hon. WiLUAM Alden Smith,
ChairmaUy etc.^ Washington^ D. C.
Sir: On learning of the appointment of the committee of inquiry after the arri\-al
of the steamship Carpathiaiast Thursday night in New York, the membera of the
committee who met me at the steamer will doubtless recall that personally, and ^
managing director of the White Star Line, I welcomed this inquiry and thou^ under
severe mental and physical strain os a result of the disaster placed mjrseu volun-
tarily at the disposal of your committee, and expressed the utmost willingness to
give them all information in my possession to the best of my ability.
I voluntarily appeared before the committee the following day, Friday, April 19,
and, though not in the best of condition to give evidence, I testified at length regard-
ing all matters connected with the accident and offered to produce or have produced
before the committee any officers or persons from our technical department, or from
the technical department of Harland & Wolff, the builders, that might be thought
necessary or desirable in order to enable the committee to investigate this tn^c
occurrence in the most complete manner.
I have regularly attended every hearing of the committee held in New York and
in Washington daily since my first examination, on April 19, and have held myself in
readiness continuously to answer the call of the committee to give any further testi-
mony that might be desired, though personally I do not see that I can be of any further
assistance to the committee. If, however, after the production of the technical or
other evidence, the committee is of the opinion that I can help its deliberations in any
manner, I shall hold myself in readiness to answer its further call, upon reasonable
notice from the committee.
I am hopeful that the committee may be able to suggest ways and means for the
avoidance of similar accidents in the future, and anything that I personally or that
the company with which I am connected can do to further that object will be gladly
done.
If the committee wishes to examine me further at the present time I hope it may
be found convenient to do so promptly in order that I may go home to my family.
In view of my experience at the time of the disaster and subsequently, I hope that
the committee will feel that this request is not unreasonable.
The committee is also aware that an inquiry into this disaster has been started by
my own Government, which has jurisdiction to deal with matters of serious imporUnce
to the interests of the company, which I understand are outside the scope of the present
inquiry, and which ui^ntly require my personal attention in England.
In these circumstances I respectfully request that if the committee wishes to exam-
ine me further it will be good enough to do so at the earliest practicable moment, and
excuse me from further attendance at the present time.
Respectfully, Bbucb Ibmay.
" TITANIO " DISASTER. 931
Washington, D. C, April j?5, 191 1^
Mr. J. Bruce Ismay,
Willard Hotel, Washington, D, C.
Sir: Replying to yuur letter of this date, just received, permit me to say that I am
not unmindful of the fact that you are being detained in this country against your will,
and, probably, at no little inconvenience to yourself and family. I can readily see thai
your absence from England at a time so momentous in the affairs of your company
would be most embarrassing, but the horror of the Titanic catastrophe and its impor-
tance to the people of the world call for scrupulous investigation into the causes leadiiu;
up to the disaster, that future losses of similar character may, if possible, be avoide<L
To that end, we have been charged bv the Senate of the United States with the duty
of making this official inquiry, and, so far as I am concerned, nothing will be left undone
which may in any manner contribute to this end. As I said to you in New York on
Friday evening last, when you asked to be permitted to return home, and aeain tarn
Saturday night, when you made the same request, I shall not consent to your leaving
this country until the fullest inquiry has been made into the circumstances surround-
int the accident. This information can be fullv detailed bv voureelf and other
officers of your company and the officers and crew of your ship. I am working ni^ht
and day to achieve this result, and you should continue to help me instead of annoying
me ana delaying my work by your personal im{)ortunities.
Trusting you will receive this letter in the spirit in which it is written, I am,
Very respectfully,
Wm. Alden Smith,
Chairman Senate Subcommittee Investigating Tetanic Disaster.
Senator Smith. You have frequently assured the committee that
if, in its deliberations, it should require your presence here after we
have finished with the British witnesses, you will be quite wiUing to
hold yourself subject to the committee's orders.
Mr. IsMAY. You mean after I get back ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. Certainly, sir. I will come back any time if you wiB
give me a reasonable notice. I will be quite glad to come back.
Senator Smith. And does this include such data and information
£Ls we may desire (
ilr. IsMAY. I will repeat, sir: All information of every nature, of
every character, wliich you wish to have with regard to the ship or
her designs or her plans, or anytliing else, is absolut^lv at your dis-
posal. If you will simply tell us what you want, you shall have it.
Senator Burton. Have you experts in this country who could
answer questions relating to the snip, or give suggestions for safety
devices i
Mr. IsMAY. I am afraid not, sir. We would be very glad to send
anybody out from the other side, if it would be of any assistance to
you.
Senator Burton. That is all.
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Ismay, I believe some passengers state
that Capt. Smith gave you a telegram reporting ice.
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. On Sundav afternoon ?
Mr. Ismay. Sunday afternoon, I tliink it was.
Senator Fletcher. Is that true ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What became of that telegram i
Mr. Ismay. I handed it back to Capt. Smith, I should think about
10 minutes past 7 on Sunday evening. I was sitting in the smoking
room when Capt. Smith happened to come in the room for some
reaison — what it was I do not know — and on his way back he hap-
pened to see me sitting there and came up and said, *'By the way,
40475— PT 11—12 3
0iS£ anxiUffic mmwEB,,
sir, have you got that telegram which I gave you this afternoon?"
I said, ^' Yes/' I put my hand in my pocket and said, '^Herc it is."
He said, **I want it to put up in the officers' chart room." That Is
the only conversation I had with Capt. Smith in regard to the tele-
gram. When he handed it to me, he made no remark at all.
Senator Fletcher. Can you tell what time he handed it to you
and what its contents were*
Mr. IsMAT. It is very difficult to place the time. I do not know
whether it was in the afternoon or immediately before lunch; I am
not certain. I did not pay any particular attention to the Marconi
message — ^it was sent from the Baltic — which gave the poeition of
iK)me ice. It also gave the position of some steamer whicn was short
of coal and wanted to be towed into New York, and I think it ended
up hj wishing success, to the Titanic. It was from the captain of the
Jbaitic.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see any other marconigrams that
afternoon ?
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You do not remember seeing any from the
Amenkaf
Mr. IsMAT. The only one I saw was this one from the Baliic,
Senator.
Senator Fletcher. Did you accompany the Olympic on its first
voyage ?
Mr. IsMAY. I did, sir.
Senator Fletcher. Did anything out of the ordinary occur ?
Mr. IsMAT. No; notliing. 1 tliink everything worked entirely sat-
isfactorily, if my memory serves me. I think she arrived in New
York Wednesday morning.
Senator Fletcher. You say the captain informed you, when you
went on the bridge that he had strucK ice? I did not understand
whether that was the first time you went to the bridge, about 10
minutes after the accident, or the second time ?
Mr. IsMAY. The first time I went to the bridge. Up to that time
I had no idea what had happened.
Senator Fletcher. What was the result of that accident to the
Olympic, which I beUeve you said occurred last August or September ?
Mr. IsMAY. The result of it ?
Senator Fletcher. Yes, sir.
Mr. IsMAY. She was run into by the cruiser Hawk and very seri-
ously damaged. She had to go back to Belfast to be repaired.
Senator Fletcher. W^hat was the nature of the damage?
Mr. IsMAY. The outside of her hull was very badly damaged and
the shafting was bent.
Senator Fletcher. It opened one of the water-tight compartments ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think it did. It was in the afterend of the ship,
where the compartments were all very small.
Senator Fletcher. Do you think Capt. Smith ever quite got over
that?
Mr. IsMAY. I have no reason to doubt it at all, sir. I saw Capt.
Smith very frequently.
Senator Fletcher. You think his nerve was as good after as before
that accident ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think so, sir.
it ...•«.«^,^ 9f
TCTANIO DI8A8TBB. 933
Senator Smith. Would you not regard it as an exercise of proper
precaution and care to lessen the speed of a ship crossing the Atlantic
when she had been warned of the presence of ice ahead ?
Mr. IsMAT. I am afraid that question I can not give any opinion on.
We employ the very best men we possibly can to take command of
these snips, and it is a matter entirely in their discretion.
Senator Fletcher. You say you expected in the Titanic the same
speed that the Olympic had, but vou aid not mention that speed.
Mr. IsMAT. I should call the Olympic a good 22-knot ship. She
can do better under very favorable circumstances. I think she can
work up to 22^ or perhaps 22J as a maximum.
Senator Fletcher. At the time of the collision of the Olympic was
she in charge of a compulsory pilot ?
Mr. IsMAT. Yes, sir; she was in the hands of a compulsory pilot.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know how far the double bottom of
the Titanic extended?
Mr. IsMAY. How far up the side of the ship ?
Senator Fletcher, Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. I thould think the whole of the botton, sir; the whole
width of the ship.
Senator Fletcher. This contact with the iceberg must have been
above the double bottom, must it not ?
Ml . IsMAY. My impression is that the bilge of the ship was ripped
out by the iceberg; simply torn right along.
Senator Fletcher. The bilge is above the double bottom ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Fletcher. Did you see the ship after you left her in the
collapsible boat?
Mr. IsMAY. I saw her once.
Senator Fletcher. What was her position then ?
Mr. IsMAY. She was very much down by the head ; her starboard
light was just about level with the water.
Senator Fletcher. Did she break in two, so far as you could see ?
Mr. IsMAY. I never looked around again.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any women and children in the
vicinity of the collapsible boat when you got in ?
Mr. IsMAY. None, sir.
Senator Fletcher. How far did you have to lower the collapsi-
ble boat from the boat deck to the water ?
Mr. IsMAY. It was very difficult to judge, because we had consid-
erable difficulty in getting our boat down at all.
Senator Fletcher. You did not have enough men ?
Mr. IsMAY. The ship had quite a list to port. Consequently this
canvas boat, this collapsible boat, was getting hung up on the outside
of the ship, and she had to rub right along her, and we had to try to
shove her out, and we had to get the women to help to shove to get
her clear of the ship. The ship had listed over that way.
Senator Fletcher. Did the tackle work all right ?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely.
Senator Fletcher. Did you have enough help from the crew of
the Titanic?
Mr. IsMAY. Oh, yes; they lowered the boat away.
Senator Fletcher. How many men were in the boat ?
ii ««^.«^*^ 99
934 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. IsMAY. Three — four. We found four Chinamen stowed awaj
under the thwarts after we got away. I think they were Filipinos,
perhaps. There were four of them.
Senator Fletcher. Were those men oarsmen ?
Mr. IsMAY. I believe one was a cook, another was the butcher, anJ
another was the quartermaster.
Senator Fletcher. Did you handle the oars ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; I was rowing from the time we got into the
boat until we got out, practically.
Senator Fletcher. You had had experience in handling oars?
Mr. IsMAY. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. You did not have any more men than you
needed to take care of the boat ?
Mr. IsMAY. No.
Senator Fletcher. Were you under the care of a physician and
under treatment after arriving on the Carpathiaf
Mr. IsMAY. I was, more or less; yes. He took care of me. The
captain sent down and offered me the use of his room on board the
Carpaihia.
Senator Fletcher. What was the name of the surgeon of the
Carvathia?
Mr. Ism AY. I really forget his name. I wrote to him before I left
the ship. I forget what nis name was. McKee, was it?
Senator Fletcher. Mr. Carter, of Philadelphia, was in that col-
lapsible boat also, was he not ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; he was.
Senator Fletcher. Were there any more men you recall now ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Fletcher. That is all.
Senator Perkins. I will ask one question, if you please.
You have stated that the Titanic 8 displacement was 46,000 tons?
Mr. IsMAY. That was her gross tonnage, I think.
Senator Perkins. Do you know what her weight of cai^o was,
including coal ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I could not tell you that.
Senator Perkins. Approximately? Was she loaded down to the
plimsoU mark ?
Mr. IsMAY. Leaving Southampton ?
Senator Perkins. Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. No; we only had 6,000 tons of coal leaving Southampton.
Senator Perkins. And how much of a cargo ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not remember. We might have had eight or nine
hundred tons of cargo weight.
Senator Perkins. ^Vhat cargo would it require to load her do\m
to the plimsoll mark ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not tell you that. She could carry over 9.500
tons of coal and then not be down to the plimsoll mark.
Senator Perkins. She had about 6,000 tons of coal ?
Mr. IsMAY. She had about 6,000 tons of coal leaving Southampton.
Senator Perkins. Sufficient to make the voyage to New York and
return to Southampton ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; but sufficient coal to enable her to reach New
York, with about two days' spare consumption.
Senator Perkins. What is her daily consumption ?
<t ..^-.^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 935
Mr. IsMAY. At full speed 'i
Senator Perkins. Ordinary speed.
Mr. IsMAY. At 70 revolutions ?
Senator Perkins. Yes.
Mr. IsMAY. I think perhaps 620 to 640 tons.
Senator Perkins. It increases in what ratio up to 75 revolutions ?
Mr. IsMAY. I could not tell you. On full speed she bums about
820 tons.
Senator Perkins. That is all.
Senator Burton. Did you have any conversation with a passenger
oil the Titanic about slackening or increasing speed when you heard
of the ice ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; not that I have any recollection of. I pre-
sume you refer to what Mrs. Ryerson said. I testified in New York,
the day after we arrived, that it was our intention on Monday or Tues-
day, assuming the weather conditions to suit, and everything was
working satisfactorily down below, to probably run the ship for about
four or six hours full speed to see what she could do.
Senator Perkins. \ ou did not have any conversation on that Sun-
day about increasing the speed, did you ?
Xir. IsMAY. Not in regard to increasing the speed going through the
ice, sir.
Senator Burton. That is all.
Senator Smith. Did you have any talk with Capt. Rostron from the
timeyou went on board the Carpaihia with reference to communication
of information with New York, or with Liverpool, or with other sliips,
regarding the loss of the Titanic?
\lr. IsMAY. No, sir. The only conversation I had with the captain
of the Carpathia was that he came to me and told me he had a Mar-
coni message from Capt. Haddock to say that he was coming to him.
At that time the Carpathia was bound for New York. The captain
of the Carpathia came to the conclusion there was no use in the
Olympic coming to the Carpathia^ because he could render absolutely
no assistance, and he said he thought it was very undesirable that the
unfortunate passengers from the Titanic should sec her sister ship so
soon afterwards. That is the only conversation I had with the cap-
tain, except that he asked me to send a message to our office in New
York to have the tug boats and some White Star sailors at quarantine
to relieve him of those boats about his deck.
Senator Bi:rton. But you yourself did not attempt to put any
embargo upon news of any land while you were on board the
Carpathia?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely none, sir; and I asked for no preferential
treatment for any messages that I sent. I do not know that any was
given.
Senator Smith. You spoke of 820 tons as being the amount of coal
required to get the maximum speed of the ship. Is that 820 tons per
24 hours ?
Mr. IsMAY. It would be 820 tons on the day. It would all depend
on whether you were going east or west. If you are ^oing west, 3^our
day is 24 hours, and if you are going east your day is 23 hours — 23
hours and some minutes.
Senator Smith. It would include a day ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir.
936 TITAKIC mSASTBE,
Senator Smith. That is^ the da^'s consumption, the maxknum ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; I think it is a day.
Senator SMrrn. From noon to noon ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; from noon to noon. I will be very glad to give
you a copy of the Olympic's engine-room log if you would like to see
it and to nave it.
Senator SMrrn. Have we got it ?
Mr. IsMAY. I hope not.
Senator Smith. Have you got it ?
Mr. IsMAY. Not here, sir.
Senator Smith. I would like very much to have it as part of our
record.
Mr. IsMAY. This is information we would not want to have sent
out broadcast. We have competitors in the trade, and any informa-
tion we would give to you we would like to have treated with con-
sideration.
Senator Smith. This, however, will become public, if you give it
to us.
Mr. IsMAY. If you ask me for it, I must give it to you.
Senator Smith. I do not want to ask for anything
Mr, IsMAY (interrupting^. I think those gentlemen behind you will
know what it is.
Senator Smith. I do not want to ask for anything' that is private
property, but if you deem it proper that we should have it. and that
kind of mformation can be made public, in view of what will probably
be said before the committee regarding the speed of this ship, I think
perhaps it might become important.
Mr. IsMAY. I do not know that there is anything in it. If you want
a copy of the log, we will give it to you and you can put it in your
record.
Senator Smith. I neglected to ask whether you were on board the
Titanic with a view of improving the ship in her technical details or
with a view of improving ner passenger conveniences ?
Mr. IsMAY. It would De more the passenger conveniences, ^[y
practice has always been, during a voyage, to make notes in regard
to anything that occurred to me on the voyage, and when I got back
to Liverpool to take the matter up with our associates and with our
marine superintendents and with our superintendent of engineers, and
discuss the whole matter with them.
Senator Smith. The reason I asked that question is because I asked
you in New York if you were officially aboard the Titanic, and you
said no.
Mr. IsMAY. No; I was not officially aboard.
Senator Smith. You said that you made the journey as a matter of
personal convenience to yourself?
Mr. IsMAY. Simply \dth the idea of looking around and seeing if
there w^as anything which suggested itself to my mind which would be
an improvement in any future ship we built.
Senator Smith. Do you know wnether the Cunard Line had a mail
contract with the British Government ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not quite know what their arrangement is. C)f
course great changes were made between the British Government and
the Cunard Co. at the time of the formation of the International
Mercantile Marine Co.
it .m^m^^^^^ ff
rrtMKlC DI0A8TSR. 937
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
Senator Fletcher. What became of the lifeboats of the TUamet
Mr. IsMAY. I think they are in New York, sir. They were put out
at the end of one of the White Star docks and are probably there now^
so far as I know.
Senator Fletcher. Were all of them saved except the one that
sank?
Mr. IsMAT. There are 13 of them there now.
Senator Fletcher. The ci^tain of the Carpathia let some of them
go adrift ?
Mr.IsMAY. I think he did. I think his decks were pretty well
lumbered up when he got them all on board, because he nad no idea*
of the trouble he was going to have.
Senator Newlands. How many compartments were there in this
shiDy the Titanic f
Mr. Ism AY. I think about 16. I am not sure.
Senator Newlands. You sav the ship was so designed that if tw*
of those compartments were filled with water the ship would float J
Mr. IsMAY. Two of the largest.
Senator Newlands. Wh^e were the largest ?
Mr. IsMAY. Amidships, I think.
Senator Newlands. Was it your idea that either of these compart-
ments was affected by this accident ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not think that anybody can state exactly wha;t
did happen to her. My own impression is that the bilge of the ship
was ripped out.
Senator Newlands. Does that include these two large compart-
ments?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes ; I think it ripped the ship up, right along the side.
Senator Newlands. You refened to pumps. Those pumps were
to be used, in case any of these compartments had water m them, for
clearing any of those compartments ?
Mr. IsMAY. For clearing them of water; yes.
Senator Newlands. For dealing them of water in case there was
a leakage ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; or in case of accident.
Senator Newlands. Or in case of accident ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Newlands. You say that one of the officers said he thought
you could keep the ship afloat by the use of the pumps ? The idea
was that these pumps would keep these compartments, or some of
them, relieved of water ?
Mr. IsMAY. That they would keep the water in chock.
Senator Newlands. That they would keep the water in check.
The pumps were used, were they not?
Mr. IsMAY. So far as I know. They were put on at once, I think-
Senator Newlands. Did any officers of the ship tell you that they.
were being used i
Mr. IsMAY. Xo; but Mr. Bell told me they hoped they could keep
the water in check with the pumps.
Senator Newlands. That is all.
Senator Smith. Senator Bourne was anxious to interrogate you^
Mr. Ismav, but he has not been able to be present this morning. If
possible, I wish you would attend the afternoon session, and we will
€( ..^— .^**^ 99
938 TITANIO DI8ASTEB.
now tak(», an early adjournment, so that Senator Bourne may then
have the privilege of questioning you.
Mr. IsMAY. I am entirely at your disposal, sir.
Senator Smith. I desire to make a statement to go upon the recortl.
In my examination of .Officer Lowe the other day I asked him with
reference to iiis habits. He informed me that he was a teetotaler.
I accepted his statement as final, and congratulated him at that time.
There is not the slightest disposition on the part of the conmiittee to
east any reflection upon Mr. Lowe's habits. I think the difficulty
arose over the statement of one of the witnesses, who said that he was
very intemperate, referring to his disposition rather than to his habits,
and I am very glad to make that correction.
Mr. Ix)WE. Thank you, sir.
Senator Smith. I think, under the circumstances, we will now take
a recess until 2 o'clock.
At 12.55 o'clock p. m. the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The committee met, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 2.10
o'clock p. m., Senator William Alden Smith (chairman), presiding.
Senator Smith. I will now ask Mr. Stengel to take the stand.
TESTIMOinr OF MR. C. E. HENBT STEVOEL.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mr. Stengel. V. E. Henry Stengel.
Senator Smith. Where do you reside ?
Mr. Stengel. Newark, N.'J.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Stengel. Leather manufacturer.
Senator Smith. Were you a passenger on board the Titanic on
the ill-fated voyage from Southampton to the place of the accident?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. While you were on that voyage did you familiarize
yourself with the speed of the Titanicf
Mr. Stengel. I did, the last day; particularly the last day, I did.
Senator Smith. Particularly the day of the accident?
Mr. Stengel. The day of the accident; that is, from Saturday
noon to Sunday noon.
Senator Smith. Will vou kindly tell the committee how you
iamiliarized yourself witli the speed, and what the speed was when
you last informed yourself about it ?
Mr. Stengel. As is usual in these voyages, there were pools made
to bet on the speed that the boat would make, and at 12 o'clock,
after the whistle blew, the people who had bet went to the smoking
BOom, and came out and reported she had made 546 knots. I figured
then that at 24 hours to a day we made 22f knots; but I was told
I was mistaken; that I should have figured 25 hours.
Senator Smith. Twenty-five hours for the day ?
a ..»».«««^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTBB. 939
Mr. Stengel. Yes, on account of the elapsed time, I believe, which
made it almost 22 knots an hour. At the same time a report came —
this was the report that came from the engine room — that the engines
were turning tnree revolutions faster than at any time on the voyage.
Senator Smfth. What time was that on Sunday ?
Mr. Stengel. I should say about between 1 and 2 o'clock Sunday
afternoon.
Senator Smith. Did you have occasion to consult with anyone as
to, or did you famihanze yourself with, the speed of the ship after
that time ?
Mr. Stengel. Not after that time, any more than that I called
my wife's attention to the fact that the engines were running very
fast. That was when I retired, about 10 o'clock. I could hear the
engines running when I retired, and I noticed that the engines were
running fast, i said I noticed that they were running faster than
at any other time during the trip.
Senator Smith. How could you tell that ?
Mr. Stengel. Just through being famihar with engines in the
manufacturing business. We have bought a great many engines in
28 or 29 years, and we generally take the speed of the engine. We
want to buy an engine that will run a certain speed to do a certain
amount of work. It was just natural instinct, ttiat was all.
Senator Smith. Where were you when the accident happened ?
Mr. Stengel. I had retired. My wife called me. 1 was moaning
in my sleep. My wife called me, and says, " Wake up; you are dream-
ing;'' and I was dreaming, and as I woke up I heard a sUght crash.
I paid no attention to it until I heard the engines stop. When the
engines stopped I said, *' There is something serious; there is some-
thing wrong. We had better go up on deck." I just put on what
clothes I could grab, and my wife put on her kimono, ana we went up
to the top deck and walked around there. There were not many
people around there. That was where the Ufeboats were. We came
down to the next dock, and tlie captain came up. I supposed he had
come up from investigating the damage. He had a very serious and a
very grave face. I then said to my \\dfe, ^' Tliis is a veiy serious matter,
I behove." I think Mr. Widcner and his wife — I tlunk it was Mr.
Widener — followed the captain up the stairs, and they returned, and
I presume they went to their staterooms. Shortly after that the
orders were given to have the passengers all put on Ufe preservers.
I went back to my stateroom and put a life preserver on my ^^-ife, and
then she tied mine on. We went back up to the top deck. Then 1
heard the orders given to put all the women and children in the boats
and have tliem go oa about 200 yards from the vessel.
Senator Smith. Who gave that order ?
Mr. Stengel. It seemed to me an officer. Of course I was a little
bit agitated, and I heard them and I did not look particularly to see
who it was. While they were loading the lifeboats, the officers or men
who had charge of loading the lifeboats said, "There is no danger;
this is simply a matter of precaution." After my wife was put in a
lifeboat she wanted me to come with them, and thev said, "No;
nothing but ladies and children." iifter the five boats, 1 think it was.
or the boats as far as I could see on the starboard side, were loaded, I
turned toward the bow. I do not know what led me there, but there
was a small boat that they called an emergency boat, in which there
940 '' mtAino '' Vf^MffOSB^
were three peoj^e, Sir Duff Gk>rdon and his wife asid Miss FVancat^.
I asked the officer — I could not see them, it was so <lark, and I pre-
sume I was agitated somewhat — I asked him if I could not get mto
that boat. There was no one else around, not a person I conkl see
except the people working at the boats, and he said, '* Jump in." The
railing was rather high — it was an emergency boat and was always
swung over toward the water — I jumped onto the railing and rolled
into it. The officer then said, ''That is the funniest sight I have seen
to-night," and he laughed quite heartily. That rather gave me some
encouragement. I thought perhaps it was not so dangerous as I
imagined. After getting down part of the way there was a painter on
the boat, and we were beginning to tip, and somebody hollered to stop
lowering. Somebody cut that line and we went on Sown.
Senator Smfth. Describe this rail if you can. Was it a guard ?
Mr. Stengel. I do not know what tney call it; a fence, nke, on the
side. The other lifeboats were all loaded from the floor. You could
step right from the floor into the lifeboats.
Senator Smith. That was on the upper deck?
Mr. Stengel. That was on the boat deck; yes, sir; toward the bow.
Senator Smith. And this rail was at the outside of the boat deck ?
Mr. Stengel. It was just at the edge of the deck, just to keep peo-
pie from falling over.
Senator Smith. How high was it ?
Mr. Stengel. I should judge it was about three feet and a half,
or so.
Senator Smith. Was there any opening in it ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Persons entering that boat were obliged to go over
that rail ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did your wife go over that rail ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; my wife was loaded three or four boats pre-
vious to that. We were up there quite early; that is, we were up
there almost the first on the deck.
Senator Smith. When you got down to the water, what happened ?
Mr. Stengel. Just as I jumped into the boat someone else, a man
named A. L. Solomon, appeared. I do not know where he appeared
from, but he asked to get in and jumped in the boat with us. There
were five passeiiffors and, I understand, three stokers and two seamen;
that is, five of the crew.
Senator Smith. How many women ?
Mr. Stengel. There were two ladies — Sir Duff Gordon's wife and
Miss Francatolli — in that boat. There was no one else in sight at
that time.
Senator Smith. And there were no other occupants of that boat?
Mr. Stengel. Not of the passengers. At that time, when they
were getting ready to lower, then I jumped in, and Mr. Solomon did
also.
Senator Smith. You had five passengers. Does that include you
and Mr. Solomon ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You had three stokers ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Three seamen and two women?
tf .-*.^.«»^^ ff
TITANIO DISAfiTBB. 941
Mr. Stengel. No; three stokers and two seamen.
Senator Smith. Two seamen and two women ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. That is, 12 people all told ?
Mr. Stengel. No; 10 all together.
Senator Smith. Your five passengers included the two women ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; the five passengers included the two women.
Senator Smith. Did any others of the passengers or crew board
that boat 1
Mr. Stengel. Besides the 10 that I say were on it?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Who was in charge of that boat ?
Mr. Stengel. I do not know. As I said, there were two seamen,
one at the bow and one at the rudder at the stern, and the other three
were rowing, with myself, as I was rowing with one of the stokers.
Senator Smith. Do you know who gave directions ?
Mr. Stengel. I think between Sir Duff Gordon and myself we
decided which way to go. We followed a Ught that was to the bow
of the boat, which looked hke in the winter, in the dead of winter, when
the windows are frosted with a light coming through them. It was in a
basse. Most of the boats rowed toward that light, and after the green
lights began to bum I suggested it was better to turn around and eo
toward the green lights, because I presumed there was an officer of the
ship in that boat, and he evidently knew his business.
senator Smith. That was evidently from another Ufeboat?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; it was from another lifeboat.
Senator Smith. Did you go toward it ?
Mr. Stengel. Yea, sir; we did.
Senator Smith. Did you reach its side?
Mr. Stengel. We did not reach its side. It was toward morning
that we turned, and bv that time another man and myself thought we
saw rockets — one rocket; that is, a rocket explode— and I said, '*!
think I saw a rocket,'* and another one said, *' I think I saw a rocket,''
and one of the stokers, I think it was, said, "I see two lights. I
beUeve that is a vessel.'' Then, after that, when another green Ught
was burned, there was a flash light from a boat, and I said, ''Now, 1
am pretty positive that is a boat, because that is an answer to the
green signal," and one of the stokers said, ''The green light is the com-
pany's color," I understood him to say. That is what he said.
Whether he was right or not, I do not know. When we saw that flash-
light, it was hke powder was sot off. I said, **Now, let us give it to
her and let us steer in between the green Ught — where we saw the green
Ught — and that boat," and that being a very Ught boat we left the
other boats quite a way behind. I felt somewhat enthused to see the
boat, and I began to jolly them along to pull. I said, "Keep pulling."
We kept pulling, and I thought we were the first boat aboard ; but I
found that the boat that had the green lights burning was ahead of us.
We were the second boat aboard.
Senator Smith. What was the number of this emergency boat ?
Mr. Stengel. I do not know, sir; I did not look at that.
Senator Smith. How far out from the side of the upper deck did
that boat ha ng when you got into it ?
942 nTANIO DISASTEB.
Mr. Stengel. It was right ui) against the side. If it had not been
I would have gone down into tne water, because I rolled. I did not
stei) into it; I just simply rolled.
senator Smith. There was no difficulty in entering it when you got
over this rail ?
Mr. Stengel. Xo. There was a partition of canvas or something
or other like that to keep it from scraping the sides.
Senator Smith. Did you see icebeigs the next morning?
Mr. Stengel. I guess you could. They were all around. You
could see them. As soon as we landed down into the water, as soon
as we were afloat, you could see icebergs all around, because we thought
they were sailing vessels at first, and began pulling this wa;y, and then
turning around and going the other way. They were m sight all
along the horizon.
Senator Smith. Were you menaced in any way, after you got into
the water in this emergency boat, by ice ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Smith. How far away was it from you, apparently ?
Mr. Stengel. It was quite a ways, but you could see the outline
in the dusk.
Senator Smith. Describe these icebergs. How large were they?
Mr. Stengel. There was one of them, particularly, that I noticed,
a very large one, which looked something like the Rock of Gibraltar;
it was high at one point, and another point came up at the other end,
about the same shape as the Rock of Gibraltar.
Senator Smith. How did it compare with the size of the Titanic?
Mr. Stengel. I was a good ways off. It was not quite as large as
the Titanic, but it was an enormous, large iceberg.
Senp.tor Smith. Can you approximate its height from the water?
Mr. Stengel. Of course I might. At such a distance I should judge
it was 250 feet high at the highest point.
Senator Smith. Where was the neld ice — back of these icebergs or
to the east of them. ?
Mr. Stengel. The field ice I did not see much of until we got
aboard the CarpatMa. Then there was a floe there that I should
think was about 5 miles long, and I should say it would take 20
minutes by the CarpaiJiia to get by that field ice. It was ice all
covered with snow.
Senator Smith. How high above the water ?
Mr. Stengel. Not very high above the water.
Senator Smith. Five or ten feet, or something like that ?
Mr. Stengel. I should judge not over 2 feet; 2 or 3 feet.
Senator Smith. Do you think of anytliing more you care to say
in addition to what you have already said that might throw any light
on the subject of this inquiry?
Mr. Stengel. No. There is only one thing that I would like to say,
and that is that evidently, when they struck the iceberg, the ice-
came on the deck, and there was one of the passengers had a handful
of ice when we were up there, and showed it. Another passenger
said that the ice came into his porthole. His porthole was open.
Senator Smith. How long after the impact was it before the engines
were stopped ?
Mr. Stengel. A very few minutes.
'' TITAWIC " DISASTER. 943
Senator Smith. Give the number of minutes, if you can. You
are accustomed to machinery and matters of this kind.
Mr. Stengel. I should say two or three minutes, and then they
started again just slightly; just started to move again. I do not
know why; whether they were backing oif, or not. I do not know.
I hardly thought they were backing oft', because there was not much
vibration to the ship.
Senator Smith. Did you hear or see anyone arousing passengers
from their rooms after the impact ?
Mr. Stengel. I heard the order given to the stewards to arouse the
passengers, and afterwards I heard somebody remark, '*Did you ever
see sucn actions," or some remark like that — *'Did you ever see such
actions as the stewards are showing.'' It seems they were not
arousing the people.
Senator Burton. They were not, do you say ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir. There was a remark made like that, ''Did
you ever see such actions of the stewards/' or some remark like that,
indicating tliey were not doing their duty.
Senator Smith. What is your judgment about it?
Mr. Stengel. My judgment about the oflicers is that wlien they
were loading I think they were cool. I think so far as the loading of
the boats after the accident was concerned, sir, they showed very
good judgment. I think they were very cool. They calmed the
passengers by making them believe it was not a serious accident. In
fact, most of them, after they got on board the Carpathia, said they
expected to go back the next day and get aboard the Titanic again.
I heard that explained afterwards by an officer of the sliip, when he
said, ''Suppose we had reported the damage that was done to that
vessel; there would not he one of you aboard. The stewards would
have come up" — not the stewards, but the stokers — "would have
come up and taken every boat, and no one would have had a chance
of getting aboard of those boats."
Senator Smith. Did you see any man attempt to enter these life-
boats who was forbidden to do so ?
Mr. Stengel. I saw two, a certain physician in New York and his
brother, jump into the same boat my wiJFe was in. Then the officer,
or the man tnat was loading the boat, said "I will stop that. I wiU
go down and get my gun." He loft the deck momentarily and came
right back agam. Afterwards I hoard about five shots; that is, while
we were afloat. Four of them I can account for in this way, that
when the green lights were lit on the boat they were lashed to — my
wife's boat — the man shot off a revolver four times, thinking it was
a vessel. The man in charge said, "You had better save all your
revolver shots, you had better save all your matches, and save every-
thing. It may be the means of saving your life." After that I
heard another shot that seemed to be aboard the Titanic. It was
explained to me afterwards that that was the time that one of the
men shot off his revolver — that is, the mate or whoever had charge
of the boat shot off his revolver — to show the men that his revolver
was loaded and he would do what ho said; that any man who would
step into the lifeboat he would shoot.
Senator Smith. But you saw no attempt by a man to enter a life-
boat, except in the manner you have described ?
if . ^ f9
944 TITANIC DISASTER.
^fr. Stengel. No^ sir; I saw no attempt of anyone to get into the
lifeboats except these two gentlemen that jumped in the boat after
the boat was lowered; that is, started to lower.
Senator SMrrn. With reference to communication with shore or
ship wireless stations after you got aboard the Carp(Uhia, is there
anything you can say about that; whether there was any notice
1)u\)lisli3d or any directions given as to the manner in which the wire-
ess stations aboard the CkurpcUhia should be operated ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; there was on the bulletin board one tele-
?'am which said that they would like to have information of the
itanitf and *' Ask the captain to send it via the Navy," or they gave
the name of the land station — to telegraph it that way; to get permis-
sion from the captain to send it that way.
There was another quite large bulletin posted by the captain w^hich
said there had been rumors aboard brought to nim that the press
was using the wires, and the captain made it very emphatic, and said,
*'I wish to state emphatically that there have not been but 20 words
sent to the press.'' and that the wires were at the service of the sur-
vivors of the Titanic,
Senator Smith. And was this wire signed by the captain or the
operator ?
Mr. Stengel. That was signed by, I think, the purser.
Senator Smith. What day was that, considering the time you got
aboard the CarptUhial Was it Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday if
Mr. Stengel. I think it was Tuesday, sir. I am not sure, sir, but
I am under the impression it was Tuesday.
Senator Smfph. Did you make any attempt to communicate with
your friends or home ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; I did ; and through the efforts I made to help
the people aboard the boat there, they saia, *' We appreciate what you
are doing, and your two messages have gone."
Senator Smith. What time was that?
Mr. Stengel. I think the first message was sent on Sunday, just
stating, *^ Both aboard the Carpathia; botn safe aboard the Carpathia,''
Senator Smith. That was Sunday night ?
Mr. Stengel. I think it was Sunday — no ; I mean Monday, sir. I
mean Monday.
Senator Smith. What time Monday ?
Mr. Stengel. I should judge in the morning, some time.
Senator Smith. To whom was it addressed ?
Mr. Stengel. It was addressed to the firm of Stengel & Roths-
child, Newark, N. J.
Senator Smith. Was that message received ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; that message was received.
Senator Smith. When ?
Mr. Stengel. That I do not recollect. I could not give that defi-
nitely, but I sent another message after that, asking to have two auto-
mobiles to meet me at the Carpathia pier; that I expected to bring
some survivors home with me. 1 expected to bring several ladies, one
from Fond du Lac, and one from Green Bay, and one from North
Dakota, and another lady from West Orange; but as we left the boat
they all found their friends, and I had no use for the two machines
after that.
it _.«.. . 9f
TTDA-NIC mSASTEB. 945
Senator Smith. Can you inform the committee, either now or later,
when the message to your firm was delivered on Monday, if it was
delivered on Monday ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes; I could get that information.
Senator Smith. We would hke to have that information.
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; I vrill. There was a message sent to me
which I never received. There was a message sent aboard the Car-
pathia which I never received, but which was answered by some one
else, and it was signed
Senator Smith (interposing). Answered from the Carpathia by
some one else ?
Mr. Stengel. I do not know where it was answered from, but the
answer came back to the message from the firm, and they asked
whether I received the message, and I said no. They said it was
answered.
Senator Smith. In vour name ?
Mr. Stengel. It evidently was. I did not see the message.
Senator Smith. If possible, I would like to have vou look that up.
Mr. Stengel. All right, sir. I would say this, Senator, that my
partner afterwards called up the Western Union about that, and they
said that that message had not been delivered, and that there was a
return fee for that message.
Senator Smith. That is, the message which was sent you which had
not been delivered ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; the message sent to me.
Senator Smith. On what deck were your rooms ?
Mr. Stengel. On C deck, 116.
Senator Smith. On what deck was this ice ?
Mr. Stengel. That I could not tell you, any more than that I was
told thev got it off the deck. They did not state which deck it was
taken od of.
Senator Smith. Do you care to say anything else ?
Mr. Stengel. Nothing that I know of, sir.
Senator Bourne. The emergency boat that you got into had a
capacity for how many passengers ?
Mr. Stengel. I do not think it had a capacity for any more than
were in it. It was just a small boat. In fact, wfien we arrived at the
Carpathia it was never taken aboard the Carpathia.. It was too small
and too light a boat, and they just set it adrift. The other large life-
boats were taken aboard the Carpathia.
Senator Bourne. Were there any people left on deck when the
boat you were in was lowered ?
Mr! Stengel. I could not see a person. I think posbibly that
was because the last lifeboat was being lowered off the starboard «ide,
and 1 suppose the people had gone to the other side.
Senator Bourne. Your boat was on the starboard side ?
Mr. Stengel. On the starboard side, the right side looking toward
the bow.
Senator Borne. Your boat was the last boat to leave i
Mr. Stengel. So far as I saw. I saw no other boat on that side,
sir.
Senator Bourne. When you were refused admission into the boat
in which your wife was, were there a number of ladies and children
there at tliat time?
a .^^.^.^ >/
946 TITANIO DISASTER.
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; there were not. These two gentlemen had
put their wives in, and were standing on the edge of the deck, and
when they started lowering, they jumped in. My wife said there
were five, but I saw only two.
Senator Bourne. WHat is your impression, that no effort was
made to awaken the passengers who were asleep at the time of the
accident?
Mr. Stengel. I would not say that, any more than I heard the
comment made about the actions of the stewards. That is all I
could say.
Senator Bourne. You have no specific knowledge in that direc-
tion ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. General orders were issued for the passengers to
put on life preservers, were they?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; I heard those orders issued.
Senator Bourne. Do you know who issued the orders ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; I do not. I heard the orders issued, and
then I went down and put on a hfe preserver, and mv wife put on one.
Senator Bourne, ^\ere there any people on the aecks,- and did the
number steadily increase after the issuance of these orders ?
Mr. Stengel. They did not come up very fast; no, sir. There were
not many people on deck when my wife's boat went off, and I think
my wife's boat was about the second boat. There were not very many
people on the top deck at that time.
Senator Bourne. When you had gone down and donne<l the life
preservers and returned you retumecl to the top deck?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Bourne. So you are not cognizant of the condition on the
lower decks ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. That is all.
Senator Burton. Were there more than 10 in this emergency boat
at any time before you were taken on board the CarpcUhia i
Mrr Stengel. \^'ere there what ?
Senator Burton. You have said there were 10; 5 passengers and
5 seamen?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did any more come into that boat, and were they
taken on before you were taken on board the Oarpaihiaf
Mr. Stengel. No, sir. My wife told me the boat she was in had not
quite enough people; tliat is, it was not loaded as much as the other
boats, and tliey lashed two boats together and took some of the people
out of one boat and put them in the other and divided them up.
Senator Bltiton. But in that boat there were hot more than 10 at
anv time ? That is, in your boat, I mean ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Bltrton. And yet you say that was the capacitv of the
boat ?
Mr. Stengel. So far as I could see; yes, sir.
Senator Burton. Did you compare that emergency boat with any
of the other emergency boats to see if it was the same size ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; I did not.
ii ^^^.^^^^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 947
Senator Bubton. You did not notice it before, while you were en
voyage ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Burton. Or later?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Sejuatpr Bl^ton. Five hundred and forty-six knots was the run
as j)osted just after Sunday noon, you say ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, air.
Senator Burton. Referring to this light which you say appeared Uke
a light showing through a frosted window pane, where was that light?
Mr, Stengel. It was right toward tlie bow; it was off in the
distance.
Senator Burton. How far away was it ?
Mr. Stengel. It was a good ways; I am not familiar with dis-
tances at sea, but it w<as quite a ways oif , and most of the boats rowed
that way. There wasi a lady had a cane, I believe, with an electric
light, and she was flashing tlus light, and they were going to that boat,
and we were going toward that boat, and there were two otiier boats
around, so the two or three of us kept together; that is, all the boats
besides our own kept together.
In one of those boats I think there was an old sailor, and he after-
wards explained that he took the end of a rope and dipped it in oil
and lit that. That was a flare tight that every now and then would
show.
Senator Burton. This tight was not on any of the boats low^ed
from the Titanic?
Mr. Stengel. The light I spoke of, away off ?
Senator Burton. Yes.
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Burton. What was your conjecture about it?
Mr. Stengel. My conjecture was this, as I explained when I was
first asked what it was. I thought it was a sort of northern light,
reflecting on an iceberg. That was my impression of it.
Senator Smith. You did not tliink it was on a ship ?
Mr. Stengel. Well, no. We aU rowed for it at first, and then it
vanished like.
Senator Smith. Where was it; ahead or on the port side?
Mr. Stengel. It was toward the bow. It was just as if, if you
were ^oing to walk off the bow of the ship, you would walk toward
that tight.
Senator Smith. Toward it ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes.
Senator Smith. To the left or to the right ?
Mr. Stengel. I think a little bit to the right, sir. I am not sure
of it, but I should think a trifle to the right.
Senator Fletcher. How far were you from the TUame when she
went down?
Mr. Stengel. I could not say the distance. I saw all the move-
ments. I saw her first row of port tights go under the water; I sav
the next port lights go under the water; and finaUy the bow was aU
dark. Wnen the last tights on the bow went under, I said, *^ There
is danger here; we had better row away from here. This is a light
boat, and there may be suction when the ship goes down. Let us
pull away." The other passengers agreed, and we pulled away from
40476— PT 11—12 4
948 TITANIO DISASTBB.
the TitaniCf and after that we stopped rowing for awhile, and she was
going down by the bow most all tne time, and all of a sudden there
were four sharp explosions about that far apart, just like this [the
witness indicatmg by snapping his fingers four times], and then she
dipped and the stem stood up m the air, and then iJie cries began for
help. I should think that the people who were left on the boat began
lo lump over. There was an awful wail like.
Senator Fletcher. Could you see the people t
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; I could not see any of the people, but I
oould hear them.
Senator Fletcher. What was the character of these explosions?
Mr. Stengel. I do not know, but I should judge it would be a
battery of boilers going.
Senator Fletcher. Might it have been bulkheads giving way f
Mr. Stengel. I do not know. I have never been familiar with
bulkheads giving way; but they were auite hard explosions. She
dipped, then, forward, and all you coula see was the stern sticking
up. When I heard the cries I turned my back. I said, '*I can not
look any longer."
Senator Fletcher. You did not attempt to go back to get any of
those people ?
Mr. Stengel. We could not. We were quite a ways awav, and
the suggestion was not made, and we did not; that is all there is
about that. I do not know why we did not, but we did not.
Senator Smith. Was there any evidence of intoxication among
the officers or crew that night ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir. I have a distinct recollection of a
Mrs. Thome stating, while talking about the captain being to dinner,
that she was in that party, and she said, '^I was in that party, and
the captain did not didnK a drop." He smoked two cigars, that
was all, and left the dining room about 10 o'clock.
Senator Smith. You have spoken of this betting pool. Was any
officer or member of the crew engaged in this pool, that you know of i
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; not that I know of. I just happened to
be in the party. I had been watching a game of cards most of the
trip, and Mr. Harris, one of the ill-fated passengers, had won the
hat pool.
Senator SMrrn. This was a pastime among the passengers ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes.
Senator SMrrn. And you are quite certain that no officer or director
look any part in it?
Mr. Stengel. I did not see any of them, sir; and I did not even
go and look at the names of those who were on the list.
Senator Smith. You did not see Mr. Ismay there ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; I do not know Mr. Ismay.
Senator Smith. Or the captain ?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Smith. There is Mr. Ismay; sitting back at the wall there
[indicating].
Mr. Stengel (after looking at Mr. Ismay). I do not think 1 saw-
Mr. Ismay but one evening, I think, while the band was playing after
dinner.
Senator Smith. In the early part of the voyage ?
Mr, Stengel. Yes; in the early part of the voyage.
'' TITANIC " DISASTER. 949
Senator Smith. You said that your friends got ice in a porthole;
is that right ?
Mr. Stenoel. Not my friends. It was one of the passengers, who,
when I first came up, had a handful of ice, and he said he got that
off of the deck of the boat.
Senator Smith. Which deck t
Mr. Stengel. He did not say. He said, ^ 'I got this off of the deck
of the boat;'' and then another passenger afterwards, on the Car-
pathia, said that ice came in at his porthole.
Senator SMrrn. You do not know where that was?
Mr. Stengel. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know where his stateroom was t
Mr. Stengel. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Smith. Was there comment because of the fact that the
port hole was open; was there anj[ special comment on that fact?
Mr. Stengel. He just wanted air. He said, ''I left my port hole
open for air."
Senator Smith. And he got this ice ?
Mr. Stengel. He got some of the ice in there.
Senator Smith. That is all. We are very much obliged to you,
Mr. Stengel.
Mr. Stengel. You want the telegrams, you say; do you, sir?
Senator Smith. The telegram which you sent, and the telegram you
received. Will you Idndly send them to the committee ?
Mr. Stengel. Yes, sir; thank you.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. Mr. Ismay, will you resume the stand ? Senator
Bourne desires to interrogate you.
TESTZMONY OF J. BSUCE ISMAT— Besomed.
Senator Bourne. Mr. Ismay, will you explain, please, of what the
^Vhite Star line consists? Is it a corporation, a firm, or a trade-
mark ?
Mr. Ismay. The legal name of the line is the Oceanic Navigation
Co. (Ltd.).
Senator Bourne. Was there ever a White Star Line of sailing ships ?
Mr. Ismay. I believe that years ago there was a White Star Lme
of saiUng ships which ran to Austraha. My father, many years ago,
bought tne White Star flag.
Senator Bourne. So that it is simply a trade-mark ?
Mr. Ismay. It is simply a trade-mart.
Senator Bourne. In buying that trade-mark did any property go
with it ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; simply the flag.
Senator Bourne. No vessels went with it?
Mr. Ismay. No ; simply the right to use the flag.
Senator Bourne. Then the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. was the
real owner of the Titanic?
Mr. Ismay. Yes.
Senator Bourne. That is an EngUsh corporation ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes; that is an Enghsh corporation.
ii ^ ^ ff
950 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Bourne. Is the stock of that corporation held bj* the
public, or is all the stock, or it not all, then what proportion of it,
neld by the International Mercantile Marine Co. (Ltd.), which com-
pany, as I understand, is the holding company of the Oceanic Steam
Navigation Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. The capital stock of the Oceanic Steam Navigation
Co. is £760,000. Practically all of those shares are owned by the
International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Bourne. £750,000?
Mr. IsMAY. The capital of the White Star Line, or the Oceanic
Steam Navigation Co., is £750,000.
Senator Bourne. That company owned the Titanic, which cost
£750,000, did it not?
Mr. Ibmay. It cost £ 1 ,500,000, sir.
Senator Bourne. Yes; I mean £1,500,000.
Mr. IsjjiAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Are there any bonds of the Oceanic Steam Navi-
gation Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes ; there is an issue of £ 1,250,000 of 5 per cent bonds,
I think they are.
Senator Bourne. The International Navigation Co. owns all of
the stock of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. The International Mercantile Marine Co.
Senator Bourne. Does the International Navigation Co. own all
of the stock of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. It owns all of it ?
Mr. Ism AY. I think all, except about six shares which are in the
hands of individuals.
Senator Bourne. The International Navigation Co.'s stock is
owned by the International Mercantile Marine Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. All of it ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. The International Mercantile Marine Co. is an
American company, is it not ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. A New Jersey corporation ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. They have about $100,000,000 of stock, in round
numbers ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. And $52,000,000 of 4J per cent bonds?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. $19,000,000 of 5 per cent bonds and $7,000,000
of underlying bonds, as I understand ?
Mr. IsMAY. I believe that is it.
Senator Bourne. The bonds have no votes at all?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Is the stock held principally in the United States,
or is it widely disseminated throughout the world ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not think anybody has any idea where the stock
is held.
<( »,.«,. *,,^ f9
TITANIC DISASTER. 951
Senator Bourne. The stock books would certainly show who has
the right to vote ?
Mr. IsMAY. The stock is in the names of voting trustees.
Senator Bourne. Oh, it is ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Pooled for how long?
Mr. IsMAY. I think until this October. I think it was extended
last time for three years or five years.
Senator Bourne. It is an American flotation, is it not ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes, sir; absolutely.
Senator Bourne. Built on the plan of the absorption of other
coinpanies ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Or the transfer ol its securities for their securities ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Then the financial policy of the International
Mercantile Marine Co. is dictated, I assume, from this country, is it
not?
Mr. IsBiAY. Yes; practically.
Senator Bourne. The majority of the directors live in this country %
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; I think the only directors who live over on the
other side are Lord Pirrie, Mr. Sanderson, and Mr. Grolson, and
mjrself . There are five.
Senator Bourne. You are the manager of the International Mer-
cantile Maiine Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. I am president of the International Mercantile Ma-
rine Co.
Senator Bourne. What ia your official connection with the Inter-
national Navigation Co., if any, and with the Oceanic Steam Naviga-
tion Co., if any?
Mr. IsMAY. Of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. I am chairman
and managjng director.
Senator Bourne. And you are the president of the International
Mercantile Marine Co. ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes.
Senator Bourne. Is the policy of the company directed by you or
by a board of directors ?
Mr. IsMAY. It is really directed by a board of directors.
Senator Bourne. You are the administrator of the policy as
indicated by the board of directors ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; I might indicate the policy and get it approved
by the board of directors, and then I would carry it out.
Senator Bourne. Then the policies would initiate with you, and
would be affirmed by them ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes ; largely, with my associates and myself. We
would discuss matters and talk them over and settle on a line of policy,
to which we would get the approval of the board of directors, and then
it would be our duty to carry it out when it had once been approved.
Senator Bourne. Do you, in your ofl[ice, ever or usually give
instructions to the masters of your ships, before they sail, as to the
course or route thejr shall follow ?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; it is absolutely laid down. They have a northern
track which they use in the winter months, and during the summer
months thev use the southern route.
<< — ,-..^^»^ f
952 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Bourne. It is laid down by whom, by custom ?
Mr. IsMAY. The track was originally agreed to many years ago by
all the steamship companies in conference.
Senator Bourne. Has the captain any right to deviate from that,
or is the regulation or custom or law followed absolutely ?
Mr. IsMAT. If the commander in his discretion thought that it was
advisable to depart from the track, there would be no reason why he
should not do so. It is a matter entirely in his hands.
Senator Bourne. Do you ever indicate the speed that the ship is
to make, or to try to maKe ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. You never indicate the time that you wish the
ship to reach New York or Liverpool ?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutely not, sir.
Senator Bourne. Are you in communication with the ship by
wireless during the voyage, in any way, or is your office ?
Mr. IsMAY. No; I do not think we ever have any wireless commu-
nication with a ship, unless there is some matter which has gone
wrong on the ship. Suppose any little accident happened in the
engine room and they wanted some little piece of machinery to be
ready for them on their arrival ; they would marconi to us that they
wanted such and such a thing, and that would give us an opportu-
nity to get that thing ready for them by the time they reacned the
other side. There is communication between the ships in regard to
passengers. A very large number of our passengers have tol)e for-
warded to Norway and Sweden and Scandinavia, and we have to
make all those arrangements before the ship arrives, and they will
marconi to us the number of passengers. If the ship is going to
Liverpool and they are going to London, they wiU marconi to us so as
to enable our people to arrange for the trains for them, and matters
of that kind.
Senator Bourne. You give the captain, then, no direct specific
instructions? He follows entirely his own volition with respect to
the ship after he leaves the shore ?
Mr. IsMAY. When the captain left Liverpool or Southampton, he
would know that he had to follow either the southern or the northern
route. Our instructions to the commanders are that they are not to
do anything which will in any way imperil the ships or the lives that
are on the snip. I think that our instnK^tions in regard to that matter
are very clear, and I think they are already on the record.
Senator Bourne. As I understand, it has already been brought out
in the testimony that the life-saving boats and paraphernalia have
been based heretofore on tonnage instead of on the number of passen-
gers?
Mr. IsMAY. Yes; on the tonnage of the ship.
Senator Bourne. You think it would be a decided improvement
in law or regulation to base the same on passengers rather than on
tonnage, do you ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think so. I think the most important thing to do
wiQ be to try to build a safer ship probably, with oulkheads extended,
or to have a ship with a double hull. But I do not know whether that
is practical or not. I have not got the technical knowledge.
oenator Bourne. You are not a practical builder I
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I am not.
<( «««.«^«^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 953
Senator Bourne. Or a practical navigator?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; I know nothing whatever about navigation.
Senator Bourne. What deductions, in your own mind, Mr. Ismay,
have been made, from the experience that you have just passed
through, in the way of the catastrophe to the Titanic ^ as to improve-
ments, and where they could be maae, and the probabilities of a repe-
tition of such a catastrophe being minimized by the adoption of your
improvements ?
Mr. Ismay. I think probably there should be an extension of the
bulkheads, carrying them up higher; but I do not know whether it
will be possible to bring the douole bottom of the ship higher up. I
do not know whether they can extend the double bottom, whicn we
have now, up the sides of the ship. It may be desirable, and prob-
ably will be very desirable, to increase the boatage capacity, and it
may be also desirable to carry a certain number of life rafts which, in
the event of the ship going aown, will float off of the ship. I think
that in this case many of these people might have been saved if there
had been some life rafts, which would have floated off the ship.
Senator Bourne. I do not know where I received it, but the im-
pression is in my mind that immediately after the catastrophe you
issued orders to the ships of the lines which you represent to increase
their number of lifeboats ; is that true ?
Mr. Ismay. That is absolutely true. We have issued instructions
that none of the ships of our linos shall leave any port carrying more
passengers and crew than they have capacity for in the lifeboats. The
result of that will be, of course, that we shall have to very largely
reduce the number of passengers we carry.
Senator Bourne. I also have an impression that I have seen some-
where, or heard, that the davits that they had on the Titanic were
capable of handling three boats instead of one. and that there was no
question about those davits being able to handle twice the number of
boats that they did handle; is that true ?
Mr. Ismay. I could not express any opinion in regard to that, Senar
tor Bourne. I do not know anything about it.
Senator Bourne. Were you at aU famiUar with the boiler rooms I
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; I had never been down in the boiler rooms.
Senator Bourne. When the plans were submitted to you by the
naval architect, did the question come up of bulklieads between tlie
boilers and the skin of the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Your attention has not been directed, then, to
that point, as to whether the ship could be made more nonsinkable
by having airtight or water-tight bulkheads between the boilers them-
selves and the skin of the ship ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; that matter was never discussed. You mean
to make the coal bunkers water-tight ?
Senator Bourne. Yes ; I mean the coal bunkers.
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; that was never discussed. Of course we have
bulkheads in the boiler rooms, right across the ship.
Senator Bourne. How about the searchlights on the ship ? Have
you come to any conclusion in your own mind as to whether the safety
of the ship would be better insured by carrying searchlights ?
Mr. Ismay. I am not competent to express any opinion on that.
954 TITANIC DISASTER.
St»nator Bourne. I did not know but you might have talked over
tiie matter with some of your practical men.
Mr. LsMAY. I have not had an opportunity of doing it. You s<h\
we have all of our suf erintendents over on the other side. But I
have heard the matter discussed here amongst certain nautical gen-
tlemen, and I think you will probably find as many would be against
it as would be in favor of it. '» hat is very often the unfortunate t osi-
tion a shipowner finds himself in. lie will have a lot of people advis-
ing him to do a thing and an equal number advising him not to do it,
and it is verj' difficult to arrive at any conclusion.
Senator Bourne. As a business man, handling lai^e affairs, in a case
of that kind what would you do, where there was a difference of opinion
among experts? You would rest on the demonstration incident
thereto, would you not?
Mr. IsMAY. I would probably make a trial of it, and would not be
a good deal influenced by the gentlemen who were in favor of it or
those who were against it.
Senator Bourne. Are your ships built subject to naval inspection <
Mr. IsMAT. No, sir.
Senator Bourne. Are any of the commercial ships built that way
in England — subject to naval inspection ?
Mr. IsMAY. I beUeve some of tne Cunard ships are, sir.
Senator Bourne. Wliat inspection do your ships receive other than
that of your own representatives ? Do they receive any ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir; we have no inspection outside, unless it is bv
Harland & Wolff.
Senator Bourne. And no other lines have, either, except the
Cunard, which, as I understand you to say, is subject to naval mspec-
tion?
Mr. IsmAy. Of course the Cunard Co. are, in a way, different from
what we are. The Government advances them a very large sum of
money and the Government has really a controlling vote in the Cunard
Steamship Co.
Senator Bourne. That is the reason
Mr. IsMAY. The Government advanced the Cunard Line the money
that enabled them to build the L/asitania and the Mauretania.
Senator Bourne. Are any of your ships receiving a mail subsidy
from the British Government ?
Mr. IsMAY. We receive £70,000 a year for carrying the mails.
That is the maximum sum we can receive from the Government.
Senator Bourne. Had the Titanic survived, how largo a subsidy
would she have received per year?
Mr. IsMAY. The £70,000 which we received would be divided
amongst the three or four sliips.
Senator Bourne. On a tonnage basis ?
Mr. IsMAY. No, sir. We could apportion that any way we saw fit.
Senator Bourne. The company gets the gross amount for the
contract, and then you make your own apportionment or allotments
It is simply a matter of bookkeeping?
Mr. IsMAY. Absolutelv. We get paid by the British Government
on a poundage basis; but as soon as the payments have reached
£70,000 we have to carrv the mails fow the balance of the vear for
nothing. That is the maximum payment we receive.
Senator Bourne. Is it your opinion that you have as good naval
architects as the navv themselves would have, and that vou would
i€ «*«A»^,^ 99
TITANIC DI8A8TEE. 955
gain notliing except, possibly, in good will — public sentiment — by
naval inspection in the construction of your ships ?
Mr. IsMAY. I do not think, from the mercantile marine point of
view, any supervision or inspection by the admiraltv authorities
w^ould be of any service to us whatever; the types of sJiips, and tlie
construction of tlie ships, are so absolutely different.
Senator Bourne. Really, the naval architect would not be an
expert on the type of ship which you are constructing ?
ilr. IsMAY. I think he could advise in regard to the ship, but I
should be very sorry to have to operate a merchant sliip wnich had
been designee! by a naval constructor. I mean to say they would
approach the whole thing from an entirely different standpoint.
Senator Bourne. It is your impression, is it not, or your convic-
tion, that legislation could be enacted which would give greater safe-
guards to the traveling public in that direction, or ndes and regula-
tions could be issued by the large companies themselves; that bene-
fits can accrue from the experience you have just gone through, in
the way of an improvement in the construction or in the equipment
of ships ?
Mr. IsMAY. I think you can take it, sir, that it will be the endeavor
of every shipowner to do everything he possibly can to guard against
such a horrible catastrophe.
Senator Bourne. And vou think the demonstration has been
made that it L« impossible to construct a nonsinkable ship ?
Mr. IsMAY. I would not like to say that, because 1 have not suffi-
cient knowledge to make any statement with regard to that.
Senator Bourne. That is all.
Senator Fletcher. You stated, Mr. Ismay, that vou were presi-
dent of the International Mercantile Marine Co. antl chairman and
managing director of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir.
Senator Fletcher. What is your official relation with the Inter-
national Navigation Co. ?
Mr. Ismay. I am a director of the International Navigation Co.
Senator Fletcher. You have no other office than that ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir; none.
Senator Fletcher. What is the relation of the International
Navigation Co. with these other two companies ?
Mr. Ismay. It is controlled by the International Mercantile Marine
Co. in exactly the same way that the White Star Line is controlled.
Senator Smith. Did I ask you the other day, Mr. Ismay, about
the firm of Ismay, Imrie & Co. ?
Mr. Ismay. Ismav, Imrie & Co. were the managers for the Oceanic
Steam Navigation Co.
Senator Smith. Is that a corporation ?
Mr. Ismay. No, sir.
Senator Smith. A copartnership ?
Mr. Ismay. Yes, sir. There is nobody left in the firm except
myself. It is practically a dead letter now to all intents and purposes.
Senator Smith. That is all, Mr. Ismay, and I want to thank you for
your courtesy to the committee and for the information which you
nave given us. So far as the committee is concerned, you are no
longer under its restraint, and I only ask you to respond to any
956 TITANIC DISASTEB.
further efforts upon our part to acquire information regarding the
causes leading to this catastrophe.
Mr. IsMAY. I will be glad to give you any information I possiblv
can, any time you call upon me for it.
Senator Smith. Mr. Neale, I want to ask you a question in order
to have it in the record. You notified the Commissioner General of
Immigration April 15 of the accident to the Titanic?
Mr. S. C. Neale. Yes, sir; on the morning of the 15th a telephone
message came from New York from Mr. Franklin to my oflSce.
Senator Smtth. What time ?
Mr. Neale. Between 11 and 12 o'clock, I am informed. I myself
did not receive the message personally. Some one in my oflSce took
it down.
Senator Smith. And upon receipt of that message you wrote the
letter of which this is a copy ?
Mr. Neale. Yes, sir; at least, some one in my office wrote the letter,
and I signed it.
Senator Smith. Asking him to arrange for the landinc; of their pas-
sengers at Halifax, and to secure their release as prompter as possible !
Mr. Neale. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You gave certain figures in that letter. Are these
accurate figures ?
Mr. Neale. I take it so, sir. That letter was not prepared by me
personally, but wasprepared by one of my associates.
Senator Smith. Tnis is a statement in the letter:
There are on board about 325 first, 285 second, and 710 third class paseengen. We
estimate that about 80 per cent of the second and third claas and aK>out 10 per cent
of the first-class passengers are aliens.
Mr. Neale. Those are the figures that caftie to us from New York.
Senator Smith. Is there any objection to including this letter in our
record ?
Mr. Neale. Not the slightest.
Senator Smith. I am very much obliged.
The letter referred to is here printed in full as follows:
[American Line, Dominion Line, Atlantic Transport Line, Leyland Line, Red Star Line, White Star
Line. S. C. Neale, counsel.]
International Mercantile Marine Co.,
1306 F Street N\V.,
WashtTigton, D. C, April 15, 191t.
Commissioner General op Immigration,
Department of Commerce and Labor, Washington^ D. C.
Sir : Owing to the accident to the steamship Titanic, it is probable that her passen-
gers will be landed at Halifax.
The company will arrange to bring the great majoirity of the passengers to New York,
but 8ome may be desirous of proceeding to Western States via Montreal. Therefore,
the company i» very anxious to have the department make some special arran^mente
for passing all the passengers destined to tlie United States at Uali&x. This would
be a very great accommodation to all the passengers under the circumstances and
would be greatly appreciated by the company.
There are on board about 325 first, 285 second, and 710 third class passengers. We
estimate that about 80 per cent of the second and third class and about 10 per cent of
the first class passengers are aliens.
We trust that in view of the unfortunate circumstances which prompt this request
the department will see its way clear to extend such special facilities as are necessary
to make this possible.
Respectfully, yours, S. C. Neale, Coumel.
'* TITANIC '' DISASTER. 957
TESTIMONT OF MS. ASCHIBAID OSACIE.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Give us your full name and address.
Mr. Gracie. Archibald Gracie, 1527 Sixteenth Street NW., Wash-
ington, D. C.
Senator Smith. And your business ?
Mr. Gracie. Historian.
Senator Smith. Colonel, you were one of the passengers on the ill-
fated Titanic. Will you kindly, as succinctly and as tersely as pos-
sible, in your own way, trace the principal events leading up to the
sinking of that ship on Sunday nignt, April 14 ?
Mr. Gracie. Do you want me to tell everything of my own knowl-
edge, specifying in each case where it is outside of my own knowledge ?
Senator Smith. We are particularly anxious for such information
as bears upon the completeness of the ship, upon her management as
you observed it, upon ner equipment so far as you are able to testify
to it, and the conauct of her officers and crew.
Mr. Gracie. I was awakened in my stateroom at 12 o'clock. The
time, 12 o'clock, was noted on my watch, which was on my dresser,
which I looked at promptly when I got up. At the same time, almost
instantly, I heard the blowing oflf of steam, and the ship's machinery
seemed to stop.
It was so slight I could not be positive of it. All through tlie
voyage the macTiinery did not manifest itself at all from my position
in my stateroom, so perfect was the boat. I looked out of tne door
of my stateroom, 'glanced up and down the passageway to see if there
was any commotion, and I did not see anybody nor hear anybody
moving at all; but I did not like the sound of it, so I thought I would
partially dress myself, which I did, and went on deck.
T went on what they call the A deck. Presently some passengers
gathered around. We looked over the sides of the ship to see wheUier
there was anv indication of what had caused this noise. I soon learned
from friends around that an iceberg had struck us.
Presently along came a gentleman, described by Mr. Stengel here,
who had ice in his hands. Some of this ice was handed to us with
the statement that we had better take tliis home for souvenirs.
Nobody had any fear at that time at all. I looked on deck outside
to see if there was any indication of a list. I could not distinguish
any. At that time T joined my friend, Mr. Clint Smith, and he and I
in the cabin did notice a list, tut thought it best not to sB,y anything
about it for fear of creating some commotion. Then we agreed to
stick by each other through thick and thin if anything occurred, and
to meet later on. He went to his cabin and I went to mine. In my
cabin I packed my three bags verv hurriedly. I thought if we were
going to be removed to some other ship it would be easy for the
steward to get my luggage out.
As I went up on deck the next time I saw Mr. Tsmav with one of
the officers. He looked very self contained, as though he was not
fearful of anything, and that gave encouragement to my thought that
perhaps the disaster was not anything particularly serious.
Presently I noticed that women and men had life preservers on.
and under protest, as I thought it was rather previous, my steward
958 TITANIC DISASTEB.
put a life preserver around m3'9^and I went up on deck, on the A
deck. Here I saw a number of people, among others some ladie^^
whom I had told when I first came on the ship at Southampton that
I hoped they would let me do anything I could for them during the
voyage. These ladies were Mrs. E. D. Appleton, Mrs. Cornell, anti
ilrs. Browne, the publisher's wife, of Boston, and iCss Evans. The%
were somewhat disturbed, of course. I reassured them and pointe'i
out to them the lights of what I thought was a ship or steamer in tht«
distance.
Mr. Astor came up and he leaned over the side of the deck, which
was an inclosed deck, and there were windows and the glass could lie
let down. I pointed toward the bow, and there were oistinctly seen
these lights — or a light, rather one single light. It did not seem to
be a star, and that is what we all thought it was, the light of some
steamer.
^ Senator Smith. How far away.
Mr. Gracie. I could not judge, only by what they told me. I
should say it could not have been more than 6 miles away.
Senator Smith. Was it ahead ?
Mr. Gracie. Ahead toward the bow, because I ha<l to lean over,
and here was this lifeboat down by the side at that time, and I point etl
right ahead and showed Mr. Astor so he could see, and he had to lean
away over.
Some time elapsed, I should say from three-quarters of an hour
to an hour before we were ordered to the boats. Then a youn*:
English officer of the ship, a tall thin chap, whose name was* Mur-
phy— I think it was Officer Murphy
Senator Fletcher. Murdock ?
Mr. Gracie. No; not Murdock. Murphy, I think it was. He was
the sixth officer, or something of that sort.
Senator Smith. Moody, was it not ?
Mr. Gracie. Moody was his name. He said, **No man beyond
this line." Then the women went beyond that line. I saw that these
four ladies, with whose safety I considered myself intrusted, went
beyond that Hne to get amidships on this deck, which was A deck.
THen I saw Mr. Straus and Mrs. Straus, of whom I had seen a great
deal during the voyage. I had heard them discussing that if they
were going to die they would die together. We tried to persuade Mrs.
Straus to go alone, without her husband, and she said no. Then we
wanted to make an exception of the husband, too, because he was an
elderly man, and he said no, he would share his fate with the rest of
the men, and that he would not go beyond. So I left them there.
Just prior to this time I had passed through A deck, or perhaps it
was about this same time. Just about the time we were ordered to
take the boats, I passed through the A deck, going from the stern
toward the bow. I saw four gentlemen all alone in the smoking
room, whom I recognized as Mr. Millet, Mr. Moore, and Mr. Butt, and
a fourth gentleman was there with them whom I did not know, but
who I afterwards ascertained to have been Mr. Ryerson. They
seemed to be absolutely intent upon what they were doing, and dis-
regarding anything about what was going on on the decks outside.
Then 1 found my friend Smith, and on deck A, on the bow side, we
worked together under the second officer in loading and helping the
women and babies and children aboard the different boats. I think
we loaded about two boats there.
t( ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 959
This was on the inclosed deck.
Senator Smith. On which side did you say, Colonel ?
Mr. Gracie. This was the port side.
The only incident I remember in particular at tliis point is when
Mrs. Astor was put in the boat. She was lifted up througn the window,
and her husband helped her on the other side, and when she ^ot in,
her husband was on one side of this window and I was on the other
side, at the next window. I heard Mr. Astor ask the second officer
whether he would not be allowed to go aboard this boat to protect
his wife. He said, "No, sir; no man is allowed on this boat or any
of the boats until the ladies are off.'' Mr. Astor then said, '^Well,
tell me what is the number of tliis boat so I may find her afterwards,"
or words to that effect.
The answex came back, "No. 4."
The next scene was on the deck above.
Senator Smith. Was there a special reason why Mr. Astor asked
to get into that boat with his wife ?
Mr. Gracie. Yes; I think it was on account of the condition of his
wife. If that had been explained to the secx)nd oflicer, posvsibly he
might have been allowed to get in that boat.
Senator Smith. But that was the reason he gave ?
Mr. Gracie. The second officer did not know that it was Mr.
Astor at all. He did not know. I believe he told me that he testified
before this committee to the effect that he did not know Mr. Astor,
and when I recalled the circumstance to him and the conversation
that passed between them he said, "Oh, is that the man?'' He said,
' * Was that Mr. Astor." That was the conversation that took place.
Then we went to the boat deck, which was the deck above. There
were no men allowed in the boats that were loaded below, not one,
except the crews necessary to man the boats. On the deck above
we loaded about two boats, at least two boats. That deck was above
deck A, at the bow on the port side. When we were loading the last
boat, just a short time before it was f uUv loaded, a palpable list toward
the port side began, and the officer called out, ''All passengers to the
starboard side," and Smith and myself went to the starboard side,
still at the bow of the ship. Prior to our going to the starboard side
wo. had rushed up and down in the vicinity of the bow, calling out,
''Any more ladies? Any more ladies?" Then we went to the
starboard side. On the starboard side, to my surprise, I found there
were ladies still there, and Mrs. Browne and Miss Evans particularly,
the ones whom I supposed had been loaded into a boat from A deck,
below, about three-quarters of an hour before. There I saw also Mr.
George Widener ana Mr. John B. Thayer. I speak of them particu-
larly, because I knew them, and of course, Mr. Clint Smith was there
with me, too.
As to what happened on the other side during our departure, the
information I was given by the second officer was that some of the
steerage passengers tried to rush the boat, and he fired off a pistol to
make them get out, and thev did get out.
Senator Smith. Who firea that pistol ?
Mr. Gracie. LightoUer. That is what he told me. He is the
second officer.
Senator Smith. Are you sure it was not Murdock ?
Mr. Gracie. I am sure it was not Murdock.
960 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Or Lowe ?
Mr. Gracie. I am sure it was not. That is what Mr. Lightoller
himself told me. I did not hear the pistol. That is what I was told
by LightoUer himself. That is all hearsay, Senator.
I want to say that there was nothing but the most heroic conduct
on the part of all men and women at that time, where I was at the
bow on the port side. There was no man who asked to get in a boat,
with the single exception that I have already mentioned. No woman
even sobbed or wrung her hands, and everything appeared perfectly
orderly. LightoUer was splendid in his conduct witn the crew, anil
the crew dia their duty. It seemed to me it was rather a little bit
more difficult than it should have been to launch the boats alongside
the ship. I do not know the cause of that. I do not know whether
it was on account of the newness of it all, the painting, or something
of that sort. I know I had to use my muscle as best I could in try-
ing to push those boats so as to get tnem over the gunwale.
Senator Smith. You refer now to the tackle ?
Mr. Gracie. I refer to the port bow, at the side.
Senator Smith. Do you refer now to the tackle or to the davits or
to any narticular part of the mechanism ?
Mr. (jrRACiE. No; I do not. I refer to it in a general way, as to
there being difficulty at that point in that way, in trying to lift them
and push them over the gunwale.
The crew seemed to resent my working with them, but they were
very glad when I worked with them later on. Every opportunity I
got to help, I helped.
When I arrived on the other side, as I have said, there were these
women, and of a sudden I heard the cry that there was room for more
women on the port side; so I grabbed by the arm these two ladies,
Miss Evans ana Mrs. Browne, and conducted them to the port side.
But I did not get but half way — that is, directly at the bow — ^when
the crew made what you might caU a dead line, and said, ''No men
are allowed beyond this hne." So I let the ladies go beyond, ami
then about six ladies followed after the two that I had particular
charge of.
From Mrs. Browne I learned what happened thereafter; that she
was after Miss Evans, and Miss Evans could have gotten over first, and
could possibly have been pulled into the boat and gotten away; but
she sacrificed her own fife in order that Mrs. Browne might go first.
Mrs. Browne was able to board the boat; but this young lady I think
must have collapsed and lost her nerve, and could not dimb over the
gunwale in order to get in. If there had been some man there to help
her, she possibly would have been saved.
Senator Smith. Describe this gunwjJe, as you call it ?
Mr. Gracie. This gunwale is the side of the deck which prevents
people from falling into the sea.
Senator Smith. A rail ?
Mr. Gracie. The rail, yes.
Senator Smith. How hi^h from the deck ?
Mr. Gracie. I should tmnk it was about 3 feet or 3 J feet high from
the deck.
Senator Smith. And it was of wood ?
Mr. Gracie. It was of wood.
Senator Smith. Was there more than one rail on it.
ti „^^.^^^^ 9}
TITANIC DISASTER. 961
Mr. Gragie. There was this one rail that was about so thick [indi-
cating] on the top.
Senator Smith. What else was there between there and the floor
of the deck ?
Mr. Oracie. Between there and the floor was part of the ship that
was underneath.
Senator Smith. But would it have been possible to crawl under that
rail?
Mr. Gracie. Oh, no; no, indeed. There was no open space under-
neath the rail. It was solid.
MeanwhUe the crew were trying to launch a boat, a collapsible
canvas boat, as they call it, that was on the hurricane deck, or the
bridge deck. This was let down from the bridge deck, and we tried
to sude it along those oars that they put in there for that purpose.
There was no other boat at that time being lowered from tiie deck
davits.
Finally this boat came down on the deck. I do not know whether
it was injured or not by the fall, but we were afraid that it had been
injured.
I may say that before this happened one of the men on the deck,
when loosening this boat from tne hurricane deck, called out, ''Is
there any passenger who has a knife?'' I said I had my penknife, if
that would do, and I passed that up. For just what purpose it was
used I do not know. It struck me as rather peculiar that tii^ should
find the want of some tool for the purposes for which it was mtended.
Senator SMrrn. How long after this did the boat go down ?
Mr. Gracie. Soon after that the water came up on the boat deck.
^^'e saw it and heard it. I had not noticed in the meantime that we
were gradually sinking. I was engaged all the time in working, as I
say, at those davits, trying to work on the falls to let this boat down.
Mr. Smith and myself thought then that there was no more chance
for us there, there were so many people at that particular point, so
we decided to go toward the stern, still on the starboard side, and as
we were going toward the stem, to our surprise and consternation, up
came from the decks below a mass of humanity, men and women —
and we had thought that all the women were dfready loaded into the
boats. The water was then right by us, and we tried to jump, Mr.
Smith and myself did. We were in a sort of cul-de-sac whicn was
formed by the cabin and the bridge, the structure that is right on the
boat decK. We were right in this cul-de-sac. I have a diagram here
which may explain the position better. The top of the page is the
bow [indicating on diagram], and on the right, or on the starboard
side, is where this last boat that I speak of was, where the first officer,
Murdock, was at work trying to launch the boat. I would like to
point out to you there mv position with Mr. Smith. I will put a star
there on the diagram and tnen you can see it better [marking on dia-
gram]. It was where that star is, where I put that cross. That is
the port side and this is the starboard side, and this is the structure
that was on the boat deck, and this is the top of the hurricane deck
or the bridge deck, where the funnels came down to the top and where
I was was right where that cross is [indicating on diagram].
Senator Smith. What occurred there ?
Mr. Gracie. Mr. Smith jumped to try to reach the deck. I jumped
also. We were unsuccessful. Then the wave came and struck us,
962 TITANIC DISASTER.
the water came and struck us, and then I rose as I would rise ui
bathmg in the surf, and I gave a jump with the water, which took
me right on the hurricane deck, and around that was an iron railing,
and r grabbed that iron railing and held tight to it; and I looked
around, and the same wave which saved me engulfed everybody
around me. I turned to the right and to the left and looked? Mr.
Smith was not there, and I could not see any of this vast mass of
humanity. They had all disappeared. Officer Lightoller tells me
that at tnat same time he was on tne bridge deck, where I have marked
it **L,'' and that the first officer, Murdock, was about 15 feet away,
where you see that boat near the davits there. That boat, I under-
stand, was thrown overboard.
Senator Burton. What do you say became of that boat?
Mr. Graoie. It was thrown overboard.
Senator Fletcher. It was never launched ?
Mr. Gracie. It was never launched; no, sir.
Senator Smith. That is not the boat that was taken from the top
of the officers' quarters, the collapsible ?
Mr. Gracie. There were two; one on the port side and this one on
the starboard side. This knife which was called for may have been
wanted for the boat on the other side, on the bridge deck there. I
heard that they called for two knives. There is where the officers*
quarters were, possibly.
Senator Smith. So far as you know, was this boat to which you
have referred put to any use that night?
Mr. Gracie. Yes.
Senator Smith. Describe it.
Mr. Gracie. That is the boat that I came to when I came up from
below. I was taken down with the ship, and hanging on to that railing,
but I soon let go. I felt myself whirled arouna, swam under water,
fearful that the hot water that came up froin the boilers might boil me
up — and the second officer told me that he had the same feeling —
swam it seemed to me with unusual strength, and succeeded finally in
reaching the surface and in getting a good distance away from the
ship.
Senator Smith. IIow far away ?
Mr. Gracie. I could not say, because I could not see the ship.
When I came up to the surface there was no ship there. The ship
would then have been behind me, and all around me was wreckage.
I saw what seemed to be bodies all around. Do you want me to go
through the harrowing details ?
Senator Smith. No; I am not particular about that. I would like
to know specifically whether, while this ship was sinking, and you
were in close proximity to it, you noticed any special suction ?
Mr. Gracie. No; I noticed no suction, and I did not go down so
far as that it would affect my nose or my ears. Mv great concern
was to keep my breath, which I was able to do, and bemg able to do
that was what I think saved me.
Senator Smith. Was the water cold ?
Mr. Gracie. I did not notice any coldness of the water at that time.
I was too much preoccupied in getting away.
Senator Smith. Did it have any bad effect on you ?
Mr. Gracie. No, not then, but afterwards, on the raft. I was on
the raft, which I will speak of, all night; and I did not notice how cold
<rf ...^.^^.v. ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 963
the water was until I got on the raft. There was a sort of gulp, as if
something had occurred, behind me, and I suppose that was where
the water was closing up, where the ship had gone down; but the sur-
face of the water was perfectly still, and there were, I say, this wreck-
age and these bodies, and there were the horrible sounds of drowning
people and peo|)le gasping for breath.
While collecting the wreckage together I got on a big wooden
crate, some sort of w^oodon crate, or wood of that sort. I saw an up-
turned boat, and I struck out for that boat, and there I saw what
I supposed were member:^ of the crew on this upset boat. I grabbed
the arm of one of them and pulled myself up on this boat.
Senator Smith. Did anybody resist you at all?
Mr. Gracie. What is tfiat ? "
Senator Smith. W^as there anv resistance offere<l ?
Mr. Gracie. Oh, no; none whatever. I was among the first. I
suppose the boat was then about half full.
Senator Smith. How many were on it ?
Mr. Gracie. I suppose there must have been between 15 and 20.
Senator Smith. Was Officer T^ightoUer on it ?
Mr. Gracie. Yes; Officer LightoUer was on that same boat.
Senator Smith. At that time?
Mr. Gracie. At that same time. Then I came up to the surface
and was told by LightoUer what had occurred. One of the funnels
fell from the steamer, and was falling toward him, but when it was
going to strike him, young Mr. Thayer, who was also on the same
boat, said that it splashed near him, within 15 yards, he said,
and it splashed him toward this raft. We climbed on this raft.
There was one man who was in front, with an oar, and another man
in the stern with what I think was a piece of a board, propelling the
boat alon^. Then we loaded the raft, as we now call it, with as
many as it would contain, until she became under water, until we
could take no more, because the water was up to our waists.
Senator Smith. Just one moment. That was while you were on
the bottom of the overturned boat?
Mr. Gracie. Of the overturned boat; yes, sir.
Senator Smtth. Was that a collapsible ?
Mr. Gracie. That was a collapsible canvas boat.
Senator Smith. What was the bottom, oval or flat ?
Mr. Gracie. The top was irregular, and about 3^ feet wide, I
should say. It was like a canoe— distinct, therefore, from the liie-
boats — and it was about, I should say, between 25 and 30 feet long.
Senator Smith. Were you standing on top of this overturned boat ?
Mr. Gracie. Not at first. We did not stand on it until just before
sun up. Our concern now was to get out of the wreckage and to
get away from the swimmers in the water before they tried to get on
the boat, and all of us would be lost. You do not want the details
of that, nor the horrors of it? That does not concern you.
Senator Smith. No; that does not concern us much. I will change
that. That will not be helpful to us in our deliberations.
Mr. Gracie. We were taken through the wreckage and away from
the screams of the drowning people, and we were on the lookout then
in every direction for lights and shii^s to come to our rescue, hallooing
all the time **Boat ahoy," or **Ship ahoy," our spirits kept up au
40475— PT 11—11 6
964 TITANIC DISASTER.
the time bv what we thought were steamship lights and boat lights:
but I think most of those lights we saw were the lights of the life-
boats of the Titanic, particularly one that was steenng ahead of as,
with green lights, and throwing up rockets, I think, or maldng lights
every little while — ^not rockets, but making a light. I do not kjiow
what kind of light they had, but it was a green light that was even-
little while conspicuous from some lifeboat directly ahead of us.
Senator Smith. There were no explosions of any kind from that
lifeboat ?
Mr. Gracie. Which lifeboat, the lifeboat we saw ahead ?
Senator Smith. The one witn the green light. Was the green light
the only light you saw ?
Mr. Gracie. No; the only Ught that was right straight ahead of us:
and then right to the port side we finally did see the lights of a ship,
and that was finally the Carvaihia, and the Marconi man who was on
the raft said he thought tnis was the Carpathian because he had
conversed with the operator on the Carvathia, That was the nearest
ship, he thought, to us at the time. We had to keep the equilibrium
of the boat all night long, from half past 2. I say half past 2 : I
might say from 2.22, because my watch, that I ^poke of before,
when I looked at it afterwards on the Carpathian had stopped, anil
the time indicated was 2.22. So that would indicate the time between
the collision and the time that I went down with the ship. We stood
upon this collapsible boat in the early mom, just before dawn, so that
we might be seen the better, and also, it was not quite so cold,
although our feet were in the water. Then, as the sun came up, a
welcome sight was the four lifeboats of the Titanic on our starboard
side. Lightoller blew his whistle and ordered them to come over
and take us off of our upset boat. ^*Aye, aye, sir," they replied, and
immediately turned toward us, and two boats came right up close
and then began the difficult task of a transfer, and some w^ere loaded.
We got on the nearest lifeboat, the bow of this, and some went on this
one and some went on the one adjoining. The complement of the
lifeboat I was on was filled up to 65.
Senator Smith. How many women were there ?
Mr. Gracie. There were a considerable number of women; possibly
half the number were women.
Senator Smith. What was the number of that boat, do you know i
Mr. Gracie. I do not. I tried to find out what the number kA
that boat was, but I did not find out what number it was.
Senator Smith. On your way to the Carpaihia did you see any ice
or icebergs ?
Mr. Gracie. Away off in the distance we saw these icebei^gs, in
the direction from which we had come during the night, and toward
the port side. We were transferred successfully from the raft. The
second officer stayed until the last, lifting up the bodv of one of the
crew and putting it right down by me, where I chafed his temples
and his wrists to see wliether there was any life in him. Then ngor
mortis set in and I thought the man was dead, and there w^as no more
use trying to resuscitate him. Then it seemed an interminable time
before we got to the Carpathian the boat I was in towing another boat
behind, and after two hours, possibly, we finally reached the Car-
pathian and tlie women were put in these seats and lifted up to the deck.
(t 9 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 965
I got Jiold of one of the ladders tliat was hanging down the side and
I ran up that ladder.
Senator Smith. Do you know any of the women in your lifeboat
by name ?
Mr. Gracie. No; I do not. There was a splendid Frenchwoman,
who was very kind to us, who loaned us one of her blankets to put
ov<?r our heacis — that is, four of us. One poor Englishman, who was
the only other j)assenger bedsides Mr. Thayer and myself who was
saved on this raft^ — h« was bald, and for that reason Fie needed this
protection, which was very grateful to him. It was very grateful to
me, too. The people on the Carpathia received us with open arms,
and provided us with hot comforts, and acted as ministering angels.
Senator Smith. Is that all ?
Mr. Gracie. I have here some pictures that were taken by a cousin
of mine on the Carpathia, who had a very good camera, which will
show you the lifeboats, or some of them, as they arrived on the Car-
imthia, I hand these to you, with the distinct understanding that
they are to be returned to me immediately, if that is agreeable to you.
^nator Smith. We are greatly obliged to you for your courtesy
in responding to the committee^s wish.
Senator Fletcher. You did not state where your stateroom was?
Mr. Gracte. My stateroom was on C deck; No. 51.
Senator Fletcher. Did you yourself notice any air ports open ?
Mr. Gracie. No.
Senator Fletcher. Do you know they were closed ?
Mr. Gracie. I could not give you any information on that point,
because I did not go down to any lower deck than C deck.
Senator Fletcher. You say tnere were two collapsible boats that
were never launched ?
Mr. Gracie. They were thrown overboard from the hurricane deck,
at the bow.
Senator Fletcher. Was nobody in them ?
Mr, Gracie. There was nobody in them.
Senator Fletcher. One on each side ?
Mr. Gracie. One on each side. If vou want those pictures ex-
plained, I can explain them for you. On the back of them you can
see what they represent.
Senator Smith. How man^ men were on top of this overturned
collapsible boat when the relief lifeboat came alongside !
Mr. Gracie. About 30; I know that, because the second officer
called out, ''How many are there aboard here?*' The reply came
back, ''Thirty.'' Of my own knowledge I know there were 8 in front
of me, and my own 2 made 10. We were in column of twos.
Senator Smith. Were there any women on it ?
Mr. Gracie. There were no women on this boat, and we had to
keep the equilibrium while standing up all the time. If one of us
had fallen, we would have fallen to our Knees, and then to the water,
and that would have been the end of us.
Senator Burton. You say you were awakened about 12 o'clock?
Mr. Gracie. Yes, sir.
Senator Burton. By whom ?
Mr. Gracie. I was awakened by the noise.
Senator Burton. You were not awakened by any steward or any
employee on board the boat ?
966 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Gbacie. Noy sir.
Senator Burton. I believe Senator Smith has asked the other
question I intended to ask, as to how many people there were on the
collapsible, and you said about 30 ?
Mr. Gracie. About 30; 27 of the crew and 3 passengers.
Senator Smith. We are very much obliged to you. That is all.
Your pictures are here with Senator Fletcher.
TESTIMOHT OF MBS. HELEV W. BISHOP.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. What is your full name ?
Mrs. Bishop. Mrs. Helen W. Bishop.
Senator Smith. And what is your address ?
Mrs. Bishop. Dowagiac, Mich.
Senator Smith. You were on board the Titanic on this ill-fated
voyage ?
Sirs. Bishop. Yes.
Senator Smith. Did anything in particular occur to attract your
attention to the ship or any special feature of the ship while you were
en route from Southampton to the place of this accident ?
Mrs. Bishop. We thought of nothing at all except the luxury of the
shm; how wonderful it was.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee what you did
after learning of tliis accident.
Mrs. Bishop. My husband awakened me at about a Quarter of 12
and told me that the boat had struck something. We ooth dressed
and went up on deck, looked around, and could find nothing. We
noticed the mtense cold; in fact, we had noticed that about 11 o'clock
that night. It was uncomfortably cold in the lounge. We looked all
over the deck; walked up and down a couple of times, and one of the
stewards met us and laughed at us. He said, ''You go back down-
stairs. There is nothing to be afraid of. We have only struck a little
piece of ice and passed it.*' So we returned to our stateroom and
retired. About 15 minutes later we were awakened by a man who
had a stateroom near us. Wo were on B deck, No. 47. He told us to
come upstairs. So we dressed again thoroughly and looked over all
our belongings in our room and went upstairs. After being there
about 5 or 10 minutes one of the men we were with ran up and spoke
to the captain, who was just then coining down the stairs.
Senator Smith. Who was the man f
Mrs. Bishop. Mr. Astor.
Senator Smith. Col. Astor ?
IVfrs. Bishop. Yes. The captain told him 8omethii\g in an under-
tone. He came back and told six of us, who were standing with his
wife, that we had better put on our Ufe belts. I had gotten down two
flights of stairs to tell my husband, who had returned to the state-
room for a moment, before I heard ^e captain announce that the life
belts should be put on. That was about three or four minutes later
that the captain announced the Ufe belts should be put on. We came
back upstairs and found very few people up.
Senator Smith. When you say upstairs, which deck do you mean i
Mrs. Bishop. We were on B deck, and we came back up to A deck.
There was very little confusion; only the older women were a httle
ii ^ ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 967
frightened. They were up, partially dressed. So I sent a number of
them back and saw that they were thoroughly dressed before they
came up again. Then we went up onto the boat deck on the star-
board side. We looked around, and there were so very few people
up there that my husband and I went to the port side to see if there
was anyone there. There were only two people, a young French bride
and groom, on that side of the boat, and they followed us immediately
to the starboard side. By that time an old man had come upstairs
and found Mr. and Mrs. Harder, of New York. He brought us all
together and told us to be sure and stay together; that he would be
back in a moment. We never saw him again. About five minutes
later the boats were lowered, and we were pushed in. At the time
our lifeboat was lowered I had no idea that it was time to get off.
Senator Smfth. Tell me which lifeboat you refer to ?
Mrs. Bishop. The first lifeboat that was taken off the Titanic on
the starboard side. * I think it was No. 7. Officer Lx)we told us that.
Senator Smith. All right. Proceed.
Mrs. Bishop. We had no idea that it was time to get off, but the
officer took my arm and told me to be very quiet and get in imme-
diately. They put the families in the first two boats. My husband
was pushed in with me, and we were lowered away with 28 people in
the boat.
Senator Sbcith. Was that a large lifeboat ?
Mrs. Bishop. Yes; it was a wooden lifeboat.
Senator Smith. And there were 28 People in it ?
Mrs. Bishop. Yes. We counted on after we reached the water.
Senator Smith. How many women were there ?
Mrs. Bishop. There were only about 12 women.
Senator Smith. And the rest were
Mrs. Bishop (interposing). Were men.
Senator Smith. Yes ; but I want to divide the rest into two classes,
the crew and the passengers.
Mrs. Bishop. There were three of the crew. The rest of them were
passengers. We had no ofi^cer in our boat.
Senator Smith. Three of the crew ?
Mrs. Bishop. Three of the crew.
Senator Smith. And 13 passengers ?
Mrs. Bishop. Thirteen passengers; yes. Amon^ those there were
several unmarried men in our boat, I noticed, ana three or four for-
ei^ers in our boat. After we had been out in the water about 15
mmutes — the Titanic had not yet sunk — ^five boats were gathered
together, and five people were put into our boat from another one,
making 33 people in our boat.
Senator Smith. Do you know from what boat these persons were
transferred to your boat ?
Mrs. Bishop. No : I can not say. The man in charge was an officer
with a mustache. I have never seen him since.
Senator Smith. Did the boat from which these people were trans-
ferred seem to have more people than yours ?
Mrs. Bishop. Yes, sir; they had 38, I believe, or 37, or something
like that.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the number of the boat ?
Mrs. Bishop. No; I do not.
Senator Smith. Go ahead.
(( >9
968 TITANIC DISASTER.
■
Mrs. Bishop. We had been rowing for some time when the other
people wtuv» transferred into our boat. Then we rowed still farther
away, as the women were nervous about the suction. We waited out
in the water perliaps three-quarters of an hour after we had rowed this
distance when we saw the Titanic sink. For some time af t<?r that w<»
were separated from all of the boats except one; that tied to us and
stayed with us. We found we had no compass, no light, and I do not
know about the crackers or water; but we 'had no compass and no
lio:ht. We were out there until just before daylight, I tnink it was.
%\'hen we saw the lights of the Carpaihia and rowed as hard as we could
and arrived at the Carpaihia 5 or 10 minutes after 5 o'clock in the
morning.
Senator Smith. I suppose your experience was the same as that of
the others as to the presence of ice and your proximity to icebergs t
Mrs. Bishop. Yes; we saw a number of icebergs.
Senator Smith. Is there anything else you care to say which will
throw any light upon our inquiry as to the causes of this catastrophe
or the conduct of the officers and crew of the Titanic?
Mrs. Bishop. The conduct of the crew, as far as I could see, was
absolutely beyond criticism. It was perfect. The men in our boat
were wonderful. One man lost his brother. When the Titanic was
<joing down I remember he iust put his hand over his face; and imme-
diately after she sank ho did tne best he could to keep the women
feeling cheerful all the rest of the time. We all thought a great deal
of that man.
Senator Smith. What was his name i
Mrs. Bishop. I do not know. He was on the lookout immediately
after the boat had struck.
wSenator Smith. Was it Fleet ?
Mrs. Bishop. No: it was not.
Senator Smith. Was it Lee ?
Mrs. Bishop. I do not think I ever heard his name. I know the
name of one man in the boat was Jack Edmimds; I think it was.
Senator Smith. That was this lookout ?
Mrs. Bishop. No; the man at the other end. They were groat
friends, I remember.
Senator Smith. Is there anything else you care to say ?
Mrs. Bishop. No; that is all.
Senator Smith. Very well; you may be excused.
Witness excused.
TBSTIMOVT OF DIGKDrSOH H. BISHOP.
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Will you state your full name ?
Mr. Bishop. Dickinson H. Bishop.
Senator Smith. And your residence ?
Mr. Bishop. Dowagiac, Mich.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Bishop. The manufacturing business.
Senator Smfth. What is your age ?
Mr. Bishop. Twenty-five.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bishop, can you add anything to the statement
Mrs. Bishop has made ?
i( .^,»^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 969
Mr. Bishop. I do not think I can.
Senator Smith. Is there any information beyond that which she
has crfven which will throw any light or contribute to our investiga-
tion?
Mr. Bishop. There is one thing, in regard to the water-tight
compartments on E deck.
Senator Smith. You may state it.
Mr. Bishop. It has to do with the mechanical closing of them.
Some way or other, it had a brass plate in the deck, and from what
I know — I do not know from my own observation, but only from
what I have heard from some other people I knew on the boat —
immediatelv after the accident thev saw the membera of the crew
trvmg to do something to these holes in the deck with a key such as
they use in the shut-or!'s to the water system in cities, and placing
the key down there, they failed to turn the one on that side, and they
immediately went to the other side and could not close that. They
said, *'There is no use; we will try the other side.'' Wliat it was
or how serious it was I do not know.
Senator Smith. Did you notice any other defects of any kind ?
Mr. Bishop. Not any.
Leaving the boat as soon as we did, we had very little opportunity
to observe what happened on the deck after the first lifeboat left.
Senator Smith. Tnis plate to which you have referred was in the
floor of E deck ?
Mr. Bishop. In one of the passageways.
Senator Smith. In the floor ?
Mr. Bishop. Yes.
vSenator Smith. On E deck ?
Mr. Bishop. As I understand it, yes, sir; or else on the wall.
Senator Smith. You say the crew could not turn this bolt or
Mr. Bishop. Whatever it was; the shut-o^.
Senator Smith. And what did they do when they found it could not
be turned ?
Mr. Bishop. One of the members of the crew, who was engaged in
trying to turn this, said to the other one, *' It is no use : we will try the
other side.''
Senator Smith. What member of the crew was that, if you know ?
Mr. Bishop. I could not answer that correctly. I do not know.
As I said, my information came through other people, passengers.
Senator Smith. From what you saw of that, do you know whether
this had to do in any way witli the efficiency of the water-tight com-
partments ?
Mr. Bishop. Only in that the plates were marked
Senator Smith (interposing). W" ?
Mr. Bishop. With *' W. T." or ^^ W. T. C." The letters ^' W. T." I
remember particularly.
Senator Smith. How long were the members of the crew trying to
turn this plate or bolt ?
Mr. Bishop. I do not know.
Senator Smith. Do you know the name of the person who saw the
attempt made?
Mr. Bishop. Mr. Hardy.
Senator Smith. Wliat are his initials ?
Mr. Bishop. Georire A.
i< -..-.. ^ ^ 9f
970 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. And what is his address ? Is it the Grosvenor.
27 P^if th Avenue, New York ?
Mr. Bishop. That is correct.
Senator Smith. Who told you to get into the lifeboat?
Mr. Bishop. One of the ollicers in charge of the lowering; which
one, I could not tell. There was some confusion there at the time,
and I did not pay much attention. There was .an officer stationed at
the side of the lifeboat, and as my wife got in I followed inunediately.
and he helped me into the boat, or rather indicated, and I fell into
the boat.
Senator Smith. Did Mrs. Astor get in the same lifeboat?
Mr. Bishop. No ; she did not. I did not see Mrs. Astor except on
the A deck earlier in the evening.
Senator Smith. What time?
Mr. Bishop. Just before the order to put on the life belts.
Senator Smith. After the collision?
Mr. Bishop. After the collision.
Senator SMrrn. Did you see Col. Astor about that time?
Mr. Bishop. I did not.
Senator Smith. Do vou know in which boat Mrs. Astor left the
Titanic?
Mr. Bishop. I do not; no.
Senator Smith. Did you know anything about the people in your
lifeboat, except yourselves? Did you £iow any of them except
your wife ?
Mr. Bishop. Yes; the French aviator — they called him *' Mar-
shall"— was in our boat. I could not pronounce his name.
Senator Smith. Anybody else ?
Mr. Bishop. Mr. Greenfield, with his mother, living in New York.
Senator Smith. Did anyone attempt to get into your lifeboat,
either while it was being lowered or after it was in the wat«r?
Mr. Bishop. There was a little confusion on the deck at that time.
No one rushed the boats, at all.
Senator Smith. How long after the impact was it before the order
was given to lower the lifeboats, or clear the lifeboats ?
Mr. Bishop. I did not hear the order given.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anyone give any warning, or did you
hear any alarm given to waken the passengers after the impact ?
Mr. Bishop. I did not hear any alarm. The alarm we had was
from another passenger, a friend of ours on the ship.
Senator Smith. Wnat was his name?
Mr. Bishop. Mr. Stewart. He was lost.
Senator Smith. Do jtou remember his first name?
Mr. Bishop. His initials were **A. A." Mr. A. A. Stewart, of New
York.
Senator Smith. And he did not survive ?
Mr. Bishop. He did not.
Senator Smith. Did anyone attempt to get out of your Hfeboat
after it reached the water?
Mr. Bishop. No.
Senator Smith. Do you agree with j'our wife that there were 28
people in your lifeboat ?
Mr. Bishop. That was what the count was, after we took it.
Senator Smith. Did you count them?
<i -.,-,. ^-w« ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 971
Mr. Bishop. Each passenger was supposed to have counted one
number, starting in the bow and going oack.
Senator Smith. That is, they started with one to count, and it ran
up to 28 ?
Mr. Bishop. Yes, sir; but there were some I know who were
missed, and there is a possibility of there having been more people
in that boat at the time. It was very difficult to take the numoer
correctly on account of the scattered position of the passengers.
Senator Smith. Were there any children in that boat ?
Mr. Bishop. There was a woman with her baby transferred from
another lifeboat, I think.
Senator Smith. That is, after you reached the water?
Mr. Bishop. After the Titanic had sunk.
Senator Smith. After the sinking?
Mr. Bishop. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Can you tell how long it was after you left the side
of the Titanic before she sank ?
Mr. Bishop. I can not tell, exactly. I imagine the time the
boat was lowered was about a quarter to 1, and the only informa-
tion I have as to the time of the sinking comes through the reports,
that it was probably in the neighborhood of 20 minutes after 2.
Senator Smith. Do you know, of your own knowledge, that life-
boat No. 7, in which Mrs. Bishop and yourself left the Titanic, was
the first boat lowered on the starboard side ?
Mr. Bishop. It was. We had been on the boat deck in the neigh-
borhood of 10 minutes, watching them prepare the boats for lower-
ing. At that time there were very few people up on deck, and from
the testimony I have heard, and from what I have heard, it seems
there were a good many people who did not get onto the boat deck
until after they had started lowering the boats.
Senator Smith. Did you hear any order given by anyone for the
men to stand back?
Mr. Bishop. I heard no such order.
Senator Smith. '* Women first," or '* Women and children first*'?
Mr. Bishop. No.
Senator Smith. At the time the first lifeboat was lowered, are you
willing to say that that order had not been made ?
Mr. Bishop. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. Of the 13 passengers in your lifeboat, did you say
you knew none except your wife ?
Mr. Bishop. I knew a good many of them
Senator Smith (interposmg). Your wife and this Frenchman?
Mr. Bishop. I knew other men in there, but I can not recall their
names.
I would like to revise that statement I just made, in a way, about
the order, '* Women first." I can say positively there was no such
order given on the starboard side, near where our boat was lowered.
What Happened on the port side I knew nothing of, at all.
Senator Smith. Do you know what officer took charge of loading
and lowering the boats on the starboard side ?
Mr. Bishop. Only from what I have heard of the testimony.
Senator Smith. W as it Mr. Murdock or Mr. Ligh toller ?
Mr. Bishop. I could not be sure who it was, from my own observa-
tion; only from the testimony here.
972 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you see the captain th6re superintending that
part of the work, at any time ?
Mr. Bishop. I did not see the captain after the accident.
Senator Smith. Did you see him before the accident ?
Mr. Bishop. No.
Senator Smith. I think that is all, Mr. Bishop. We are very much
obliged for your kindness in waiting so long.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. Mr. Gracie wishes to make a further statement.
TESTIMOmr OF MB. ABGHIBAID OBACIE— Continned.
Senator Smith. Col. Gracie, would you like to make some ad<li-
tional statement beyond the one which you have just made?
Mr. Gracie. Yes, sir; if I might be allowed to do so.
Senator Smith. Please do so.
Mr. Gracie. I want to speak of Maj. Butt and Mr. Clarence Moore
and Mr. Millet. I testifiea that they were in the smoking room. I
want it understood that the time they were in the smoking room was
about 1 oVJock. That was not while the boats were being lowered.
I do not know what they did after that, after I saw them, but I did
not see them on the upper deck or on the deck at all. That is the last
I saw of them.
Senator Smith. This time that you speak of was after the collision ?
Mr. Gracie. After the collision.
Senator Smith. And about an hour before the boat sank?
Mr. Gracie. All of that. It was more than an hour.
Senator Smith. An hour and 20 minutes?
Mr. Gracie. Yes, fully that. So that whatever they did after that
is not in my testimony at all.
Senator Smith. You did not see any of them after that ?
Mr. Gracie. I did not see any of them after that. I only mention
that fact, because they were perfectly imperturbable, showing their
confidence in the ship, that no disaster was going to take place. In
fact a great deal of my testimony is given for that purpose, to show
how unconcerned everybody was about this serious disaster until the
very last.
Senator Smith. That is all. Col. Gracie.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. In view of the statement of my colleagues on the
subcommittee that a very important biU will be considered by the full
Committee on Commerce to-morrow, we will suspend at this time and
stand adjourned until Friday morning at 10 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 4.20 o'clock p. m., April 30, 1912, the subcommittee
adjourned until Friday, May 3, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
" TIT^A^l^IC " IDIS-A^STEE
^% HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIKEOTING THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OP THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 12
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINQTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unitbo States Senate.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Michigan, Ckainnan.
OBOROE C. PERKINS, Calilbniia. F. M. SIMMONS, North Carolina.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jr., Oregon. FRANCIS 0. NEWLAND8, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKmsTBT, derk,
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Eleventh day: P««e.
White, Mrs. J. Stuart 1006
Bottomley, John 1010
Twelfth day:
Buckley, Daniel 1017
Stone, Melville E 1021
Harder, George A 1027
Binns, JohnR 1031
Abelaeth, Olaus 1036
Chambers, Norman Campbell 1040
Thirteenth day:
Dauler, Frederick 1044
Bride, Harold S. (recalled) 1048
Pickard, Berk 1061
Balfour, Gilbert William 1063
^^TITANIC' DI8A8TEE.
THUBSDAY, ICAY 2, 1912.
SUBOOMMriTEB OF THE COMMITTEE ON COBfMERCE,
United States Senate,
New York, N. Y.
TESTDCOHY OF MBS. J. STUABT WHITE.
{Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee . ]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Do you make the Waldorf-Astoria your permanent
home, Mrs. White ?
Mrs. White. My home really is Briarcliffe Lod^e; Briarcliff
Manor, N. Y. That is my summer home. When I am m New York,
I am always here at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Senator Smith. I want to ask one or two questions, Mrs. White,
and let you answer them in your own way. You were a passenger
on the Titanicf
Mrs. White. Yes.
Senator Smith. Where did you get aboard the ship ?
Mrs. White. At Cherbourg.
Senator Smith. Where were your apartments on the Titanicf
What deck were you on ?
Mrs. White. We were on deck C.
Senator Smith. Do you remember the number of the room ?
Mrs. White. I do not believe I could tell you with any degree of
certainty, at aU. Miss Young and my maid could tell you.
Senator Smith. Miss Young or your maid would know the number
erf your room?
Mrs. White. Yes. I never went out of my room from the time I
went into it. I was never outside of the door until I came off the
night of the collision.
^Senator Smith. That was due, I believe, to a little accident that
you had on entering the ship ?
Mrs. White. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You went directly to your apartment and remained
there?
Mrs. White. Yes; I remained in my room until I came out that
night. I never took a step from my bed until that ni^ht.
^Senator Smith. Were you arousea especially- by the impact ?
Mrs. White. No; not at all. I was just sitting on the bed, just
ready to turn the lights out. It did not seem to me that there was
any very great impact at all. It was just as though we went over
1005
a »».«.. «^^ 99
1006 TITANIO DIBASTSB.
about a thousand marbles. There was nothing terrifying about it
at aU.
Senator Smith. Were you aroused by any one of the ship's officers
or crew ?
Mrs. White. No.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether there was any alarm turned
in for the passengers ?
Mrs. White. We heard no alarm whatever. We went immediately
on deck ourselves.
Senator Smith. You went on deck?
Mrs. White. We went right up on deck ourselves.
Senator Smith. On the upper deck ?
Mrs. White. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And Miss Young and your maid were with you t
Mrs. White. Yes; and my manservant.
Senator Smith. What were they doing then ?
Mrs. White. Simply all standing around.
Senator Smith. Was anything being done about the lifeboats?
Mrs. White. No; we were afi standing around inside, waiting to
know what the result was.
Senator Smith. The lifeboats had not then been cleared ?
Mrs. White. Nothing had been said about the lifeboats in any way.
when suddenly Capt. Smith came down the stairway and ordered us all
to put on our life preservers, which we did. We stood around for
another 20 minutes, then, I snould think.
Senator Smith. Still on that deck?
Mrs. .White. No; on deck B.
Senator Smith. You went down to deck B ?
Mrs. White. Yes; he said we must go back again, then, to deck A,
which we did, to get into the boats.
Senator Smith. Where did you enter the lifeboat ?
Mrs. White. I entered the lifeboat from the top deck, where the
boats were. We had to enter the boat there. Tnere was no other
deck to the steamer except the top deck. It was a perfect rat trap.
There was no other deck that was open, at all.
Senator Smith. Do you recollect what boat you entered ?
Mrs. White. Boat 8, the second boat oflF.
Senator Smith. On which side of the ship ?
Mrs. White. I could not tell you. It was the side going this
way — the left side, as we were going.
Senator Smfth. That would be the port side?
Mrs. White. Yes. I got in the second boat that was lowered.
Senator Smith. What officer stood there ?
Mrs. White. I could not tell you that; I have no idea.
Senator Smith. What officer siipervised this work?
Mrs. White. I have no idea. I could not even tell whether it was
an officer or the captain. I know we were told to get into the boat.
Senator Smith. Did you have any difficulty m getting into the
boat?
Mrs. White. None whatever. They handled me very carefully,
because I could hardly step. They luted me in very carefully and
very nicely.
Senator Smith. How far out from the side of the ship did the life-
boat hang ? Were you able to step into it ?
<( ^m^^.^^^^ ff
TITAKIO DiaASTSB. 1007
Mrs. White. Oh, yes.
Senator Smith. Or were you passed into it ?
Mrs. White. No* we stepped into it. It did not hang far out.
Senator Smith. Did you see how far out it was ?
Mrs. White. No, sir; I have no idea. We got into it very easily.
We got into the lifeboat without aiw inconvenience whatever. As I
said, my condition was such that I had to be handled rather care-
fully, and there was no inconvenience at all.
Senator Smith. Did you see anything after the accident bearing
upon the discipline of tlie officers or crew, or their conduct, which you
desire to speak of ?
Mrs. White. Yes; lots about them.
Senator Smith. Tell me about that.
Mrs. White. For instance, before we cut loose from the ship two
of the seamen with us — the men, I should sav; I do not call them
seamen; I think they were dining-room stewards — before we were cut
loose from the ship'thev took out cigarettes and lighted them; on an
occasion like that! That is one tmng that we saw. All of those
men escaped under the pretense of being oarsmen. The man who
rowed me took his oar and rowed all over the boat, in every direc-
tion. I said to him, **Why don't you put the oar in the oarlock?"
He said, **Do you put it in that hole? I said, ^^Certainly." He
said, **I never had an oar in my hand before." I spoke to tne other
man and he said, '*I have never had an oar in my hand before, but I
think I can row.'' Those were the men that we were put to sea
with at night — with all those magnificent fellows left on board, who
would have been such a protection to us. Those were the kind of
men with whom we were put out to sea that night.
Senator Smith. How many were there in your boat ?
Mrs. White. There were 22 women and 4 men.
Senator Smith. None of the men seemed to understand the manage-
ment of a boat ?
Mrs. White. Yes; there was one there, one who was supposed to be
a seaman, up at the end of our boat, who gave the orders.
Senator Smith. Do you know who he was ?
Mrs. White. No; I do not know. I do not know the names of any
of those men. But he seemed to know something about it.
Senator Smtth. I wish you would describe, as nearly as you can,
just what took place after your lifeboat got away from the Titanic.
Mrs. White. What took place between the passengers and the
seamen ?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mrs. White. We simply rowed away. We had the order, on leav-
ing the ship, to do that. The officer wno put us in the boat — I do not
know who he was — gave strict orders to the seamen, or the men, to
make for the light opposite and land the passengers and get back just
as soon as possible. That was the light that everybody saw in the
distance.
Senator Smith. Did you see it ?
Mrs. White. Yes; I saw it distinctly.
Senator Smith. What was it ?
Mrs. White. It was a boat of some kind.
Senator Smith. How far away was it ?
ti ^*«.*^»^ ff
1008 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mrs. Whttb. Oh, it was 10 miles away, but we could see it dis-
tinctly. There was no doubt but that it was a boat. But we rowed
and rowed and rowed, and then we all suggested that it was simply
impossible for us to get to it; that we never could eet to it, and the
thing to do was to go back and see what we could do for the others.
We only had 22 in our boat.
Then we turned and went back, and lingered around there for a
long time, trying to locate the other boats, but we could not locate
them except by hearing them. The only way they could locate us
was by m^ electric li^t. The lamp on the boat was absolutely
worth notmng. They tinkered with it all along, but they could not
^et it in shape. I had an electric cane — a cane with an electric light
m it — and tnat was the only light we had. We sat there for a long
time, and we saw the ship go down, distinctly.
Senator Sbhth. What was your impression of it as it went down }
Mrs. White. It was something dreadful.
Nobody ever thought the ship was goin^ down. I do not think
there was a person that night, I do not thimi: there was a man on the
boat who thought the ship was going down. They speak of the
bravery of the men. I do not think there was any particular bravery,
because none of the men thought it was going down. If they had
thought the ship was going down, they would not have frivoled as
they did about it. Some of them said, ''When you come back jrou
will need a pass," and ''You can not get on* to-morrow morning
without a pass.'' They never would have said those things if any-
body had had any idea that the ship was going to sink.
In my opinion the ship when it went down was broken in two.
I think very probably it broke in two.
I heard four distmct explosions, which we supposed were the
boilers. Of course, we did not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. How loud were those explosions ?
Mrs. White. They were tremendous.
We did what we were ordered to do. We went toward the li^ht.
That seemed to be the verdict of everybody in the boat. We nad
strict orders to do that from the officer or whoever started us off —
to row as fast as possible for that boat, land the passengers and come
right back for the others. We all supposed that boat was coming
toward us, on account of all the rockets that we had sent up.
Senator SiirrH. Did you urge the man in chai^ of your lifeboat to
go back?
Mrs. White. One of us did.
Senator Smith. Did you urge him to go back to seek to pick up
more people ?
Mrs. White. Not until we had gone out for half an hour and found
it perfectly useless to attempt to reach that boat or that light. Then
everybody suggested going back and we did, too, but we could not
get there.
Senator Smith. You went back ?
Mrs. White. Yes. The sailor changed our course and tried to go
back. That was after trying to reach that light for three-quarters
of an hour. It was evidently impossible to reach it. It seemed to
be going in the same direction in which we were going, and we made
no headway toward it at all. Then we turned and tried to go back.
Senator Smith. Did anybody try to get in or get out of your boat ?
( i «*— . ^^•^ y 9
TITANIC DISASTER. 1009
Mrs. White. No.
Senator Smith. Did you land alon^ide the Carpathia with the same
party with which you started from tne boat deck of the TUanict
Mrs. White. Exactly.
Senator Smith. You all landed safely?
Mrs. Whits. We all landed safely. We had a great deal of trouble,
but we all landed safely.
Senator Smith. How many were there in your party ?
Mrs. White. Three; Miss i oung, myself , and my maid. My valet
wae lost.
Senator Smith. Did you make any attempt to communicate with
your friendsy after you got aboard the Carpathia, by wireless or
otherwise t
Mrs. White. That was the first thing we did.
Senator Smith. Did you succeed ?
Mrs. White. No; we did not succeed. They never received the
telegram until last Monday night in this hotel. They took our tele-
gram the first thing when we got on board the Carpaikia, Monday
morning. They took our marconigram. I think the people on land
had a much more serious time than we had, so far as real suffering
was concerned.
Senator Smith. Will you describe what you saw after daybreak,
with regard to ice or icebergs ?
Mrs. White. We saw one iceberg in front of us. Of course, I
could not see it, because I was standing this way [indicating]. I did
not even see the Carpathia until my attention was called to her. I
stood up all night long because I could not get up onto the seats,
which were very high, on account of my foot being bound up. I had
no strength in my foot, and I stood all night long.
After we got aboard the Carpaihia, we could see 13 icebergs and
45 miles of floating ice, distinctly, right around us in everv direction.
Everybody knew we were in the vicinity of icebergs. Even in our
staterooms it was so cold that we could not leave the port hole open.
It was terribly cold. I made the remark to Miss Young, on Sunday
morning: ** We must be very near icebergs to have such cold weather
as this. It was unusually cold.
It was a careless, reckless thing. It seems almost useless to speak
of it.
No one was frightened on the ship. There was no panic. I in-
sisted on Miss Youne getting into something warm, and I got into
something warm, and we locked our trunks and bags and went on
deck.
There was no excitement whatever. Nobody seemed frightened.
Nobody was panic-stricken. There was a lot of pathos when hus-
bands and wives kissed each other good-by, of course. ,
We were the second boat pushed away from the ship, and we saw
nothing that happened after that. We were not near enough. We
heard the yells of the steerage passengers as they went down, but
we saw none of the harrowing part of it at aU.
As I have said before, the men in our boat were anything but sea-
men, with the exception of one man. The women all rowed, every
one of them. Miss Young rowed every minute. The men could
not row. They did not know the first thing about it. Miss Swift,
from Brooklyn, rowed every minute, from the steamer to the Car-
pathia. Miss Young rowed every minute, also, except when she was
1010 TITANIC DISASTER.
throwing up, which she did six or seven times. Countess Rothe
stood at the tiller. Where would we have been if it had not been
for our women, with such men as that put in charge of the boat?
Our head seaman would give an order and those men who knew
nothing about the handling of a boat would sajr, ''If you don't stop
talking through that hole m your face there will be one less in the
boat.'' We were in the hands of men of that kind. I settled two or
three fights between them, and quieted them down. Imagine getting
right out there and taking out a pipe and filling it and standing there
smoking, with the women rowing, which was most dangerous; we
had woolen rugs all around us.
Another thing which I think is a disgraceful point. The men
were asked, when they got into our boat, if they could row. Imagine
asking men that who are supposed to be at the head of lifeboats —
ima^ne asking them if thev can row.
There is another point that has never been brought out in regard
to this accident and that is that that steamer had no open decks
except the top deck. How could they fill the lifeboats properly?
They could not lower a lifeboat 70 feet with any degree of safety with
more than 20 people in it. Where were they going to get any more
in them on the way down ? There were no other open decks.
Just to think that on a beautiful starlit night — ^you could see the
stars reflected in the water — with aU those Marconi warnings, that
they would allow^ such an accident to happen, with such a terrible
loss of life and property.
It is simply unbearable, I think.
Senator Smith. There were no male passengers in your boat ?
Mrs. White. Not one.
Senator Smith. Do you know who any of the other women were in
your boat ?
Mrs. White. Mrs. Kenyon, Mrs. Dr. Leder, of Brooklyn; Mre.
Swift, and the Countess Rothe, who was at the tiller, and her maid,
and Miss Young, my maid, and myself. I did not know any other
ladies. Those were the ladies right around me.
I never saw a finer body of men in my life than the men passengers
on this trip — athletes and men of sense — and if they had been per-
mitted to enter these Ufeboats with their families tlie boats would
have been appropriately manned and many more lives saved, instead
of allowing the stewards to get in the boats and save their Uves,
under the pretense that they could row, when they knew nothing
whatever about it.
Senator Smith. I am very much obUged to you for your statement,
Mrs. White.
TESTXMONT OF MB. JOHH BOTTOMLET.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Vicc president and general manager and secre-
tary-treasurer of the Marconi Wireless Tdegraph Co. of America.
Senator Smith. What is your age ?
t€ -.— ..«^^ ff
TITANIO DISASTER. 1011
Mr. BoTTOMLET. Sixtv-three.
Senator Smith. How long have you been engaged in the business
of wireless telegraphy ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Since about 1900.
Senator Smith. In your capacity of general manager, what are
your duties ?
Mr. Bottomlet. General supervision of the work of the company,
attending to the finances of the company, putting the company on a
business basis — on a paying basis — and generally attending to every-
thing that comes into the office. I do not know exactly how to
explain it.
oenator Smith. Do you have to do with installations of wireless
apparatus on ships or at shore stations ?
Mr. Bottomlet. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you have to do with the selection of operators ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Are you familiar with the methods employed in
both of these matters t
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Where were vou on Sunday night, the 14th of
April, and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Tliursday following?
Mr. Bottomley. In various places in New York.
Senator Smith. Were you at the office of the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Bottomley. Not on Sunday. I was on the other days.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything to do with the sending or
receipt of messages concerning the loss of the Titanicf
Mr. Bottomley. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you attempt to put yourself in coxnmunication
with the operator of the Carpathiaf
Mr. Bottomley. I did, to the best of my ability.
Senator Smith. Just tell what you did in that regard.
Mr. Bottomley. I sent a memorandum — what we call a memo-
randum— to the operator of the Carpathia on Monday night through
our office — or, rather, instructed our office to send it — asking the
operator of the Carpathia to send at least 500 words of good news to
your office.
Senator Smith. Did you do anything else in connection with this
matter ?
Mr. Bottomley. On Tuesday I called up the traffic managers of
the Western Union and Postal Telegraph Cos. and asked them to
hold their lines as clear as possible, so that communication might
readily be made, as I expected a large rush of business — ^private mes-
sages and also messages for the press — and thej' agreed to do so.
I further sent memoranda to the stations at Cape Race, Sable
Island, and Halifax, asking them to furnish us any information that
they could.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything else to do with the receipt
or sending of messages by wireless telegraphy or cable connected
with thati
Mr. Bottomley. No, sir. You mean the actual sending ?
Senator Smith. Or instructions pertaining thereto 'i
Mr. Bottomley. I did not send any other message that I remember.
Senator Smith. Have you knowledge regarding any being sent ?
Mr. Bottomley. Yes.
1012 TITAKIO DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Did you in any manner undertake to influence
the course of Cottam, the operator on the Carpathia, or of Bride, thf
surviving operator of the TitaniCy regarding the sending or receipt of
information concerning this catastrophe ?
Mr. BoTTOMLET. In no way did I do so until the vessel had passed
quarantine, when, having heard from the New York Times that it would
be wiUin^ to give the operator or operators, whose names I did not know
at that time, a sum of money for their story, I said if Mr. Marconi,
whom I was to meet shortly at a social function, consented, I would
consent thereto. At about a quarter to 8 Mr. Marconi, at my house,
said that while he did not altogether care for the business, he saw no
objection to the operator giving his story to the New York Times
newspaper. But uttle conversation passed, as the matter was at a
dinner party, and all the persons were waiting. I immediately, how-
ever, rang up the office and told them that Mr. Marconi did not object
and that 1 aid not object either.
Senator Smith. With whom did you speak over the telephone \
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I cau not remember. It was either Mr. Sammis
or some person acting for him.
Senator Smith. Wnat else did you do about the matter ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Nothing further.
Senator Smith. Did you make any attempt to see the operators
on their arrival. J' J- H H
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When did you first receive information through
your own office of the sinking of the Titanic?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I think that information was received about
6 p. m. on Monday afternoon. It may have been earlier, but I can
not state definitely.
Senator Smith. Do you consider it proper to encourage wireless
operators in the manner referred to ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I think it more advisable that the operators
should give their storv to one paper than to have it scattered piece-
meal, and written up by various reporters for various newspi^ers.
Senator Smith. Might not this custom or habit lead to a general
understanding among operators, and tend to influence them in their
course foUowmg calamities of this character?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Xo, sir; I do not think so.
Senator Smith. If it were understood that they should have the
right to exclusively sell the information in their possession, would it
not weaken the confidence of the public in the accuracy and com-
pleteness of published information ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Admitted that operators are proper people to
give out information, it might do so; but operators are not capable of
giving out any proper information. That nas been established by us
m the last 10 or 12 years. Tliere is hardly an operator crossing the
ocean who can give out any news in a decent way lor pubhcation, and,
in addition, the operators are not permitted to send from the ships
anything of their own volition touching the working or operation of
the ship, or any accident or matter in relation to the ship.
Senator Smith. Would not the fact that that is so give additional
valuation to their own observation and experience in cases of great
horror, like the Titanic disaster, which, if made their own exclusive
property, would operate to public disadvantage ?
ii ,««^.«*-^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTBB. 1018
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Not in my opinion.
Senator Smith. Do you admit that the wages of wireless operators
are very low ?
Mr. 60TTOMLEY. I think they get a fair wage, considering that they
are kept at virtually no expense whatsoever. Several of our opera-
tors are married men, living comfortably on their pay.
Senator Smith. If they get just compensation, why should rewards
of this character, which may be of doubtful propriety, be held out to
them as one of the inducements for their service ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Absolutely no such rewards are held out, nor
has this ever been offered to any operator as an inducement for him
to come into the service.
Senator Smith. Did not Binns, in the Republic disaster, receive
considerable remuneration for his personal observations and expe-
rience ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I do not know what Binns received. I think
he received a very small amount indeed at that time. I beUeve he
afterwards received an immense amount of money from various
sources, such as lectures, theatrical entertainments, magazines, etc.
Senator Smith. Do you know what Bride, the Titanic operator,
received ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Mr. Van Anden, managing editor of the New
York Times, told me he was giving $1,000, to be equally divided
between the two boys; that a London paper had since given, unso-
licited, $250 for Bride; and it is said — although I have no personal
knowlec^e on the subject — that Bride also received another $250.
I believe that he admitted on the stand that he received $1,000, and
that Cottam has admitted on the stand that he received $1,250.
Senator Smith. Mr. Marconi, in his testimony, admitted that this
practice might be of doubtful wisdom, and that it was his purpose
to discourage it in the future. What have you to say about that ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Anvthing that Mr. Marconi requests the Ameri-
can company to do will be done without demur or hesitation.
Senator Smith. Did you have anything to do with arranging for
this exclusive story through the New York Times ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. No, sir; nothing further than what I have said.
Senator Smith. Mr. Bottomley, is this true, as reported in the
Ix^ndon Daily Telegraph :
The Marconi Co. will give no information to any ahip not fitted with the Marconi
wireless system, nor will it consider its calls?
Mr. Bottomley. It is absolutely untrue as far as the American
company is concerned.
Senator Smith. A passenger on the Russian sliip Birma, fitted with
another wireless system, reported, on reaching London, that the ship's
offers to help care for the survivors on board the Carpaihia were
met by repeated signals to '*Shut up." Were those answers in con-
sonance with the general orders of tne Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Bottomley. Most certainly not. The absolute order is that
everything must be communicated with, ships or anywhere, in any
time of danger or distress. That is one of the first provisions of our
general orders.
Senator Smith. That passenger gave the London Daily Telegraph
a statement, attested by the officers and wireless operators of tne
1014 TITANIC DIBASTEB,
Birma, that on the day of the disaster and on days following the ship
was refused any information whatever with regard to the wreck sur-
vivors. Was that refusal in obedience to orders or instructions given
by the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Most certainly not.
Senator Smith. Do you think tnat there is any justification for such
suppression of information of world-wide importance at such a time ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. There would be none.
Senator Smith. Is it not true that if the operator on the Carpaikia
had acquainted the operator on the Birma with some details concern-
ing the disaster the world would not have been kept in suspense for
many days ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I Can not answer that question. I know nothing
about the Birma, or where she was.
Senator Smith. Was there anything to prevent the operator on the
Carpaihia from giving the Birma a few details ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. As I have said before, the operator can only send
such news as is authorized by the captain of a ship.
Senator Smith. Are Marconi operators absolutely under the control
of the captains of the ships on which they serve ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. To the best of my knowledge, they are as long as
they are on board ship. The captain is the absolute ruler of his ship.
oenator Smith. Is it not true that your operators can talk to each
other and that, as a matter of fact, tney are almost constantly chat-
ting when in touch with each other ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. There is an absolute rule against such chatting or
talking or exchang:ing matters not of proper business connected
with wireless, but it would be impossible to fallow each operator
and find that he did not chat or speak with another. As a general
rule they do not do so. None of our best men follow that practice.
If it was discovered, the operator would be severely reprimanded,
and many times shore stations have picked up chatting between
operators which was led, in some instances to discharge^ and in
others to very severe reprimanding of the oTenders. It is one of
the rules which should be most strictly observed by operators.
They are not there for their own purposes at all.
Senator Smith. You must admit, Mr. Bottomley, that no captain
can know of these personal messages between operators.
Mr. Bottomley. Oh, no; of course not.
Senator Smith (continuing). Unless informed by the operator
himself.
Mr. Bottomley. No, sir; he would not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. The testimony in this case clearly shows that
there is more or less social ana personal communication between
operators on 8hip])oard and at coast stations as well.
Mr. Bottomley. If that is so, it is very much to be deplored, and
any instance brought to our notice will be severely dealt with.
I speak for the whole aUied Marconi companies in that respect.
senator Smith. Do you not think this practice should be regulated
by law; that it ought to be made the subject of inquiry by the Berlin
convention, in order to insure the proper transaction of public busi-
ness?
Mr. Bottomley. I think the matter might be brought up at the
Berlin conference or convention. I presume it will be.
(( ,.«».^«.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 1015
Senator Smith. Mr. Bottomley^ Mr. Marconi said he sent a personal
message to the operator of the Uarpathia two nights before tnat ship
reached New York, ordering him to send to the Associated Press a
description of what happened to the Titanic. Can you give any reason
why this request was not complied with ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. None but that the operator was unable to cope
with the business which he had in hand.
Senator Smith. And as to that you are not fully advised ?
Mr. BoTTOBdLEY. As to that I am not fully advised.
Senator Smith. Can the orders of the president of your company,
or of any of its general officers, be disregarded with impunity ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. The circumstances are so exceptional that I
would be unable to answer that question properly. I think that an
operator should do as I would do — give every possible attention to
any request sent out by Mr. Marconi; but an officer of this company
is of no greater importance than the smallest person on boara the
boat who has friends ashore.
Senator Smith. So far as I have been able to observe during the
hearings before the committee, I have as yet seen no one whose mes-
sage was either delivered to or sent from the Carpaihia for a passen-
ger. How can you account for that ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I am unable to account for it at all. We do not
control the operator of the Carpaihia in any way. He is under the
direction of Marconi's International Marine Communication Co.
Senator Smith. Do you know whether he received any injunction
of silence from that company ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I kuow that he received no injunction of silence
from that company so far as any man can know that^ because I am
confident the company sent out no such injunction.
Senator Smith. Do you think that your operator on the Carpaihia
should have put aside important messages, such as this, in order that
he might send messages bearing upon the personal comfort of pas-
sengers of that ship ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. That would be my opinion. I think the people
on the ship were suffering tremendously, and the matter of news was
of next to no importance except to satisfy the cravings of the public.
That is my honest opinion.
Senator SMrrn. Do you believe that the failure to respond to this
reouest was due entirely to the operator ?
ilr. BoTTOMLEY. I think so.
Senator Smith. What influence, in your opinion, did the plan of
Bride and Cottam to market the news which was in their possession
have in this case ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Absolutely none, in my opinion, because they
knew nothing about any plan to market the news imtil after it was
too late to send anything to the press or anywhere else.
Senator Smith. Do you not think they were aware of the success of
Operator Binns in disposing of information in his possession at the
time of the Republic disaster ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. They may have been. I do not know that they
were. It was common talk. What one operator does not know
about another one is very little. Still, I ao not believe it would
influence them in any way.
1016 TITAliaO DISASTBB.
Senator Smith. Do you not think such matters should be under
better control by your company, or bv the owners of the ships I
Mr. BoTTOMLET. If a way could be devised to find that better
control, I think so; but I doubt if it can be done.
Senator Smith. Would you favor an international agreement for
the control of information of disasters at sea ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Yes.
Senator Smith. Are you willing to submit the complete record of
all messaj^es sent bv operators of vour company from the first message
of the Titanic until the arrival of the Carpathva in New York ?
Mr. Bottomley. So far as we are permitted by law, we will give
every record in our office. We will throw our records open to Senator
Smith or any member of the committee, provided promises of secrecy
will first be made. They can then read every record that we have,
and look over everything. I am instructed by our president to say
that, and it is upon my reauest that I am permitted to say so.
Our records are absolutely open, in a case of this sort, to any mem-
ber of the committee, with tne promise of secrecy attached, as we
are not permitted to divulge any private messages which come to our
office or through our office.
Senator Smith. Do you know of your own knowledge, or have you
been informed by any person by wire, wireless, or cable, by letter,
word of mouth, or otherwise, that information regarding this disaster
did reach any office of your company, or any office or officer or em-
ployee of the White Star Line, on Monday morning, April 15, prior
to 10 o'clock?
Mr. Bottomley. No. I do not know of any such message.
Senator Smith. Have you heard of none ?
Mr. Bottomley. I have heard of none.
Senator Smith. Have you made any inquiry to ascertain this fact?
Mr. Bottomley. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Has any officer of your company made such in-
quiry ?
Mr. Bottomley. Not that I know of. No complaint or inquiry
has been made at our office on the subject.
Senator Smith. Will you make such inquiry?
Mr. Bottomley. I will make such inquiry if you will give me the
necessary particulars.
Senator Smith. The particulars are embraced in that question that
I have just asked you solely.
Mr. Bottomley. If the question is given to me to-day, we wiD put
an inquiry on foot at every station or the Marconi Co., and we will
then tell you whether a message was sent or not.
Senator Smith. Or received?
Mr. Bottomley. Or received. If it was sent or received. If it is
in Canada, you can issue an order and we can get it for you. If it is
in our files, you will get it.
Senator Smith. You wish to be understood as saying that you had
nothing whatever to do with the receipt or payment of any monev to
Bride or Cottam, from any source, for the special information wliich
they disclosed ?
Mr. Bottomley. Most emphatically, I do.
Senator Smith. What do you know about the wireless equipment
of the Titanic?
(< 9f
TITANIC DI8ASTEB. 1017
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Nothing, except from hearsay. I understand
from what I have heard that it was the most up-to-date equipment
that was ever put on a boat.
Senator Smith. What was the maximum wave length of that appa-
ratus ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I am unable to say.
Senator Smith. What is the wireless equipment of the Olympic?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I believe it is somewhat similar to that of the
Titanicj both being the most modern.
Senator Smith. What was the wireless apparatus of the Carpathiaf
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I believe it was what was termed a coil set, which
would not be as effective, either as to distance or power, as the more
modem or power sets; but it fully complies with the laws of the
Berlin conference and the United States, in that it is perfectly capa-
ble of transmitting a message 250 miles under ordinary circumstances.
Senator Smith. What do you know of the wireless equipment of
the steamship Virginianf
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Little or nothing.
Senator Smith. What do you know about the wireless equipment
of the Mount Temple, of the Canadian Pacific Railroad ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Nothing. I believe they had a Marconi equip-
ment.
Senator Smith. What do you know about the wireless equipment
of the Frankfurty of the North German Lloyd Line ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I do not know anything about it.
Senator Smith. Or about that of the Birmaf
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. Nothing at all.
Senator Smith. Or about that of the Califomianf
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I do not know anything about her equipment.
Senator Smith. Is there anvthing further you can say touching
the inquiry we are making, wliich will in any way throw any light
upon the causes leading up to this disaster or the subsequent conduct
of your officers with reference thereto ?
Mr. BoTTOMLEY. I do not think that I could add anything to the
testimony that has already been given by others, and especially by
Mr. Marconi, all of which I thoroughly indorse.
Senator Smith. That is all. I am very much obliged to you.
\T'hereupon, at 4.30 o^clock p. m., the hearing was adjourned until
to-morrow, May 3, 1912, at 9.30 o'clock a. m.
FBIDAT, MAY 3, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate, .
New Yorlc, N. Y.
TESTIHONT OF DANIEL BUCKLEY.
[Testimony taken eeparately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
Tlie witness was swom bv Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Mr. Buckley, where do you live ?
Mr. Buckley. 855 Trement Avenue, Bronx.
40475— FT 12—12 2
(( .^^.^^^ 9f
1018 TITAlsaO 0ISASTEB.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Buckley. Twenty-one years old.
Senator SMrrn. Where did you get aboard the TiUmief
Mr. Buckley. At Queenstown.
Senator Smfth. Had you been Uving m Ireland ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; 1 Uved in King WilUamstown, Town Court.
Senator Smfth. How did you happen to come over to America ?
Mr. Buckley. I wanted to come over here to make some money.
I came in the Titanic because she was a new steamer.
This night of the wreck I was sleeping in my room on the Tiiam4:,
in the steerage. There were three other boys from the same place
sleeping in the same room with me.
I heard some terrible noise and I jiunped out on the floor, and
the first thing I knew my feet were getting wet; the water was just
coming in slightly. I tola the other fellows to get up, that there was
something wrong and that the water was coming in. They only
laughed at me. One of them says: ''Get back into bed. You are not
in Ireland now.''
I got on my clothes as quick as I could, and the three other fellows
got out. The room was very small, so I got out, to give them room
to dress themselves.
Two sailors came along, and they were shouting: ''All up on deck!
imless you want to get drowned."
When I heard this, I went for the deck as quick as I could. When
I got up on the deck I saw everyone having those life belts on only
myself; so I got sorry, and said I would go back again where I was
sleeping and get one of those life preservers; because there was ore
there for each person.
I went back again, and just as I was going down the last flight
of stairs the water was up four steps, and dashing up. I did not go
back into the room, because I coula not. When I went back towuxi
the ro6m the water was coming up three steps up the stairs, or four
steps; so I did not go any farther. I got back on the deck again, and
just as I. got back there, I was looking around to see if I could get ary
of those life belts, and I met a first-class passenger, and he had two.
He gave me one, and fixed it on me.
Then the lifeboats were preparing. There were five lifeboats sent
out. I was in the sixth. I was holdmg the ropes all the time, heliTing
to let down the five lifeboats that went down first, as well as I coulcl .
When the sixth Ufeboat was prepared, there was a big crowd of men
standing on the deck. And they all jumped in. So I said I would
take my chance with them.
Senator Smith. Who were they ?
Mr. Buckley. Passengers and sailors and firemen, mixed. There
were no ladies there at the same time.
When they jumped, I said I would go too. I went into the boat.
Then two officers came along and said all of the men could come out.
And they brought a lot of steerage passengers with them; and they
were mixed, every wav, ladies ana gentlemen. And they said all the
men could get out and let the ladies in. But six men were left in the
boat. I think they were firemen and sailors.
I was crying, lliere was a woman in the boat, and she had thrown
her shawl over me, and she told me to stay in there. I believe sho
was Mrs. Astor. Then they did not see me, and the boat was lowered
down into the water, and we rowed away out from the steamer.
<t -.,«..^^,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER, 1019
The men that were in the boat at first fought, and would not get
out, but the officers drew their revolvers, and fired shots over
our heads, and then the men got out. When the boat was ready, w«
were lowered down into the water and rowed away out from the
steamer. We were only about 15 minutes out when she sank.
Senator Smith. What else happened ?
^Ir. Buckley. One of the firemen that was working on the Titanic
told me, when I got on board the Car^athia and he was speaking to
me, tliat he did not think it was anv iceberg; that it was onlywiat
they wanted to make a record, and they ran too much steam and the
boilers bursted. That is what he said.
We sighted the lights of the big steamer, the Carpathia. All tlie
women got into a terrible commotion and jumped around. They
were hallooing and the sailors were trying to keep them sitting down,
and they would not do it. They were standing up all the time.
When we got into the Carpathia we were treated very good. We
got all kinds of refreshments.
Senator Smith. Did you feel a shock from Uie collision when the
ship struck ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; I did.
Senator Smith. And did that wake you up ?
Mr. Buckley. It did. I did not feel any shock in the steamer;
only just heard a noise. I heard a kind of a grating noise.
Senator Smith. Did you get right out of bea ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; 1 dia
Senator Smith. When you got out, you got into the water ? There
was water in your compartment in the steerage ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; water was there sUghtLy. There was not very
much.
Senator Sbuth. How much ?
Mr. Buckley. The floor was only just getting wet. It was only
coming in under the door very slightly.
Senator Smith. You had two or three boys with you *
Mr. Buckley. Yes; three boys that came from the same place in
Ireland.
Senator Smith. What became of those other three boys ?
Mr. Buckley. I can not say. I did not see them any more after
leaving the room where I parted from them.
Senator Smith. They were lost ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; they were lost.
Senator Smith. Was there any effort made on the part of the officers
or crew to hold the steerage passengers in the steerage )
Mr. Buckley. I do not thmk so.
Senator Smith. Were you permitted to go on up to the top deck
without any interference ?
Mr. Buckley. Yea, sir. They tried to keep us down at first on our
steerage deck. They did not want us to go up to the first-class place
at all.
Senator Smith. Who tried to do that ?
Mr. Buckley. I can not say who they were. I think they were
sailors.
Senator Smith. What happened then ? Did the steerage passen-
gers try to get out ?
1020 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Buckley. Yes; they did. There was one steerage passenger
there, and he was getting up the steps, and just as he was ^oing in a
Uttle gate a fellow came along and chucked him down; mrew him
down into the steerage place. This fellow got excited, and he ran
after him, and he could not find him. He got up over the Uttle gate.
He did not find him.
Senator Smith. What gate do you mean ?
Mr. Buckley. A Uttle gate just at the top of the stairs going up
into the first-class deck.
Senator Smith. There was a gate between the steerage and the first-
class deck ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes. The first-class deck was higher up than the
steerage deck, and there were some steps leading up to it; 9 or 10 steps,
and a gate Just at the top of the steps.
Senator Smith. Was the gate locked ?
Mr. Buckley. It was not locked at the time we made the attempt
to get up there, but the sailor, or whoever he was, locked it. So that
this feUow that went up after him broke the lock on it, and he went
after the feUow that thraw him down. He said if he could get hold
of him he would throw him into the ocean.
Senator Smith. Did these passengers in the steerage have any
opportunity at aU of getting out?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; they had.
Senator Smith. What opportunity did they have?
Mr. Buckley. I think they had as much chance as the first and
second class passengers.
Senator Smith. After this gate was broken ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; because they were all mixed. All the steerage
passengers went up on the first-class deck at this time, when the gate
was broken. They all got up there. They could not keep them down
Senator Smith. How much water was there in the steerage when
you got out of the steerage ?
Mr. Buckley. There was only just a little bit. Just like you would
throw a bucket of water on the floor; just very little, like that.
Senator Smith. But it was coming in, was it ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; it was only just commencing to come in.
When I went down the second time, to get one of the life preservers,
there was a terrible lot of water there, in a very short time.
Senator Smith. How much ?
Mr. Buckley. It was Just about three steps up the stairs, on the
last flight of stairs that I got down.
Senator Smith. Did you find any people down in the steerago
when you went back the second time ?
Mr. Buckley. There were a number, but I can not say how many.
All the boys and girls were coming up against me. TTiey were all
going for tne deck.
Senator Smith. Were they excited ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; they were. The girls were very excited, and
they were crying; and all the boys were trying to console them and
saying that it was nothing serious.
Senator Smith. Were you crying at the time ?
Mr. Puckley. Not at tliis time. There was a girl from my place,
and just when she got down into the lifeboat she thought that tho
boat was sinking into the water. Her name was Bridget Bradley.
ft ..^^....^ 9 7
TITANIC DISASTER. 1021
She climbed one of the ropes as far as she could and tried to get back
into the Titanic aj^ain, as she thought she would be safer in it than
in the lifeboat. She was iust getting up when one of the sailors
went out to her and pulled ner down again.
Senator Smith. How many people were there in the steerage when
you got out of bed ?
Mr. Buckley. I can not say.
Senator Smith. Could you see many people around ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir; there was a great crowd of people. Thev
were all terribly excited. They were all going for the decks as quick
as they could. The people had no difficulty in stepping into the
lifeboat. It was close to the ship.
Senator Smith. I want to ask you whether, from what you saw
that night, you feel that the steerage passengers had an equal oppor-
tunity with other passengers and the crew in getting into the lifeboats ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; I think they had as good a chance as the first
and second cla^s passengers.
Senator Smith. You tnink they did have ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes. But at the start they tried to keep them
down on their own deck.
Senator Smith. But they broke down this gate to which you have
referred ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And then they went on up as others did, mingling
all together?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; they were all mixed up together.
Senator Smith. Have you told all you know, of your own knowledge,
about that ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes.
Senator Smith. Were you where you could see the ship when she
went down ?
Mr. Buckley. Yes; I saw the lights just going out as she went
down. It made a terrible noise, like thunder.
Senator Smith. I wish you would toll the committee in what part
of the ship this steerage was located.
Mr. Buckley. Down, I think, in the lower part of the steamer, in
the after part of the ship; at the back.
Senator Smith. That is all. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF MELVILLE E. STOVE.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. State your full name, please.
Mr. Stone. Melville E. Stone.
Senator Smith. You are general manager of tlie Associated Press ?
Mr. Stone. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. How long have you held that position ?
Mr. Stone. I have held the position of general manager over the
existing organization, or an organization which preceded it, for 18
years.
Senator Smith. In such capacity, what are your duties ?
it ..M.^..**^ ff
1022 TITAinO DISASTER.
Mr. Stone. I am the executive officer of the Associated Press, and
it is my duty to supervise, in a general way, all of its relations, subject
to the president or the board of directors, with its members and with
the public, and gather the news of the world, or supervise its gathering
and its distribution to the 800 members who compose the J^sociated
Press.
Senator SMrrH. In such capacity, what part did you take in the
receipt and dissemination of the news concerning the accident to the
Titanic f
Mr. Stone. In general, I had charge of the entire work. Much of
the news came automatically from we established processes of the
organization. Some of it came in response to immediate inquiries of
mme.
Senator Smfth. Can you tell the committee how you were first
apprised of this catastrophe, and from whom you obtained your
information t
Mr. Stone. The first intimation we had — I speak of the Associated
Press — came in two dispatches during the night of Sunday and
Monday, April 14 and 15. These two dispatches came from the
Marconi station at Cape Race. I shall be very glad to furnish you
the dispatches themselves.
I have in mj hand a copy of the Anaconda (Mont.) Standard of
Monday mommig, April 15, containing the two dispatches to which
I refer. They are merged in one, but they read as follows:
Cape Race, New Brunswick,
Sunday night, April 14.
At 10.25 o'clock to>night the White Star Line steamahip Titanic called ''C. Q. D/*
to the Marconi wireless station here, and reported having struck an iceberg. The
steamer said that immediate assistance was required.
Half an hour afterwards another message came, reporting that they were sinking by
the head, and that women were beii^ put off in the lifeboats.
The weather was calm and clear, t£e Titanic' a wireless operator reported, and gave
theposition of the vessel as 41.46 north latitude and 50.14 west long^itude.
Tne Marconi station at Cape Race notified the Allan liner Virginian^ the captain of
which immediately advised that he was proceeding for the scene of the disaster.
The Virginian at midnight was about 170 miles distant from the Titanic and expected
to reach that vessel about 10 a. m. Monday.
2 A. M. MONDAY.
The Olympic at an earlv hour this Monday morning was in latitude 40.32 north and
longitude 61.18 west. She was in direct communication with the Titanic and is now
making all haste toward her.
The steamship Baltic also reported herself as about 200 mUes east of the Titanic and
was making all possible speed toward her.
The last signals from the Titanic were heard by the Virginian at 12.27 a. m.
The wireless operator on the Virginian says these signals were blurred and ended
abruptly.
You will note from this dispatch that the steamship Virginian at
midnight was reported 170 miles distant from the Titanic and
expected to reach the side of the Titanic at 10 a. m. on Monday.
Early on Mondaymoming I be^an pressing^in every directfon for
additional word. We telegraphed to Cape Kace, to Halifax, and
particularly to the Allan Line at Montreal, and we waited, moment
by moment, for some word from the Virginian^ which was expected
to arrive at the side of the Titanic at 10 o'clock in the morning of
Monday.
During the day of Monday there was a most exasperating silence
in every direction. We connected our New York office directly with
TITANIC *' DISAfiTEB. 1028
Halifax, and called our Halifax correspondents to the wire, and i»ked
them to secure any possible information. We telegraphed to Cape
Race to ask them to secure any information.
Then began a series of rumors and dispatches floating through vari-
ous news^gatherin^ and dispensing agencies throughout the world.
Of course we also put ourselves mto immediate touch with the
White Star ofRcials at their office in New York, and we asked our
London office to see what could be gotten there, if anjthing.
At 10 minutes past 9 o'clock on Monday morning it was reported
to me that Mr. P. A. S. Franklin, vice president of the White Star
Line, had said that the OlympiCy of his company, had talked by wire-
less with the Titonic at 4.24 o'clock Monday morning; and our office
confirmed this statement, which first came through what is known as
the New York City News Association to us, by personally calling on
Mr. FrankUn's omce and receiving assurances oy our Mr. Helm, a
reporter for the Associated Press, that that statement was correct.
Thereupon we sent the statement out to our members.
At 9.30 o'clock on Monday morning there appeared on what is
known as the Dow, Jones & Co.'s ticker, which is an automatic
machine for reporting news and stock quotations, the following
announcement. I quote from the original, which I will give you:
A dispatch from Halifax reports that all passengers had left the Tiianic in hoats
shortly after 3.30 o'clock this morning.
At 9.43 the Montreal Star reported that an official dispatch from
Halifax stated that word had oeen received there that the Titanic
was still afloat and was making her way slowly toward HaUfax.
These and the other following messages were sent out, crediting them
to the sources from which, so far as we knew, they first appeared.
At 9.53 a. m., on Monday morning, Mr. FranUin said:
There need be no alarm for the Titanic* s passengers.
He said:
The Titanic is now in latitude 41.16 north and longitude 50.14 west. She is being
approached by the Olympic of the White Star Line, which we figure will be alongside
by 8 p.m. to-day. The Olympic has just been reported as having been in direct com-
munication with the Titanic.
Mr. Franklin was most emphatic in his assertion regarding the
safety of the passengers and the steamer.
At 10.17 the same morning our London office reported a message
received and sent out in London by the Exchange Telegraph Co.
saying that a wireless through Halifax reports that all the Titanic
passengers were safely taken off at 3.30 tins morning.
That was, of course, a repetition of the dispatch I had already
rej>orted having appeared here on the Dow-Jones ticker. That went
to London and was repeated back to us.
At 11.03 Monday morning, the following appeared on the Dow,
Jones & Co.'s ticker. I furnish the original:
Dispatch from Montreal received by Whit« Star people says Titanic was afloat at
8.30, and that women and children had not yet been taken off, though lifeboats were
ready in case of emergency.
The steamship is heading in direction of Halifax, from which the Virginian is
approaching. It is thought that bulkheads will prevent ship from sinking. Titanic
is moving under her own engines.
t i -,,— . * ^ 9 9
1024 TITANIC DISASTEB.
At 11.05 a. m., Monday, the following dispatch appeared on the
Dow, Jones & Co. ticker. It is dated 10.39, at Montreal. I quote:
Wireless received 10 o'clock this morning said that two vessels were standing by
the Titanic and that the big vessel's passengers had been taken off.
At 12.07 we received this dispatch from the Canadian Press (Ltd.),
an organization engaged in receiving and distributing news to the
newspapers of Canada. The dispatch is dated Montreal:
The local office of Hor^on Davidson, one of the Titanic^s passengers, has received
the following wireless message:
"All passengers are safe and Titanic taken in tow by the Virginian."
At 11.23, based on a statement by Mr. Franklin, which he said was
contained in a wireless message he had received from Capt. Haddock,
of the Olympic, but the text of which he declined to make pubhc,
this dispatch was sent out by the Associated Press:
Transfer of passengers from disabled Titanic is under way and 20 boatloads have
already been taken aboard the steamship Carpathia.
This dispatch which I have just read was the first and only truthful
dispatch between the hours when our two morning dispatches from
Cape Race closed and this hour of 11.23 a. m. All the oispatches in-
tervening, which I have read, were false, as were all of the statementi^
of the White Star officials respecting the safety of the passengers on
the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Do ]^ou know the sources of this misinformation,
or bv whom it was inspired ?
Mr. Stone. I only know the sources as I have indicated them in
my testimonv respecting them. I have given the source of each one
of these. The Montreal Star was the source of one dispatch; the
Canadian Press (Ltd.) was the source of another dispatch; the Dow,
Jones & Co. ticker was the source of several dispatches. Dow, Jones
& Co. DubUsh what is known as the Wall Street Journal, in the
city of New York, and it would be an easy matter for the committee
to find out from them their source of information.
At 1 o'clock on Monday afternoon Vice President Franklin, of the
White Star Line, issued tne following statement:
The Allan Line, Montreal, confirms report that the Vvrginian, Parisian^ and Car-
pathia are in attendance, standing by the Titanic.
In the light of the fact that it was reported that the Virffinian.
which belongs to the Allan Line, of Canada, was standing by and first
was to reach the side of the Titanic at 10 o'clock and then that she was
there, I telegraphed to the Allan Line at Boston and asked them to
let me know the instant they heard any word from the Virginian, and
about noon, and, I should say, fully an hour before this statement of
Mr. Franklin's, I received a message from H. and A. Allan, of Mon-
treal, saying that they had no wora whatever from the captain of the
Virginian.
There was a dispatch given out in Boston by the Boston American,
April 15, wliich you can find in the issue of that day, reading as
follows:
A Boston dry-goods house which employs Herbert H. Hilliard as buyer received
the following wireless message from him this afternoon:
"Passengers all saved. Transferred to Baltic and Virginian.*'
a ^ ^ ^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 1025
There was a curious blunder in a dispatch from London. A mes-
sage was received by tlie father of PiiiUips, who was the wireless
operator on the Titanic. Pliillips's father lived at Godalming, and
he received a message sajdng:
Making slowly for Halifax. Practically unsinkable. Don't worry..
This was supposed, for an hour or more, to have come direct from
Phillips, the Tiianic operator. Instead of that it came from an uncle
of Phillips, who lived in England, and was the docket which he fixed
up in London and which he was sending to Phillips's father to comfort
him.
In response to the telegram which I sent during Monday, on Monday
night we received from our Cape Race correspondent the list of first
and second class survivors on board tlie Carpathia.
About 7 o'clock in the evening of Monday we received a dispatch
Announcing that the Titanic had sunk with great loss of life, ana that
was, so far as we know, the first authentic information that there was
a disaster.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any attempt upon tlie part of any-
one connected with the Wliite Star Line or the International Mercan-
tile Marine or the Marconi Co. or any telegraph company to suppress
the actual state of affairs which occurred at H.50 Sunday evening?
Mr. Stone. I have no knowledge of my own on that. I do not
know that there was any attempt at suppression on the part of anvone.
Senator Smith. How can you account for the failure to get reliable
information concerning this disaster on Monday ?
Mr. Stone. I can only account for it on the theory that this disas-
ter occurred something like 400 miles from any land station of the
wireless company, and the radius of the Carpathia^ which was the
only boat upon the scene, was not sufficiently great to reach any land
station.
I have been told, and I assume that it is true, that such messages
as we did get through — for instance, the list of the survivors — came
through because they were received by tlie Olympic^ which got into
that field, and had a radius of several hundred miles, and transmitted
to Cape Race — that is, they were sent from the Carpathia to the
Olympic and from the Olympic to Cape Race.
Senator Smith. Do you believe that the value of this information
which was largely in the control of the wireless operators of the Mar-
coni Co.. Bride and Cottam, and the possibihties of reward to them
personally, operated to work a suppression of the actual occurrences
m connection with this disaster?
Mr. Stone. You ask me if it is my opinion that it did. I think the
opportunities to make money on their part would tend in that direc-
tion, but I have no Imowledge that anything of that kind was done.
I do know this: That we were striving from Tuesday morning until
Thursday night, when the Carpathia arrived, by every known means
to get some word from the Carpathia.
I recognize that, after the sinking of the Titanic and when the Car-
pathia came up, she was probably out of range of any station, and
could not send any messages, and that they were also very busy
picking up the survivors.
They then started for Xew York. On the way they came in touch,
as I understand it, with the Olymmc, and gave them the list of sur-
vivors, which was repeated and wliich we received Monday night
1026 TITANIC DISASTER.
Then the Olympic moved on to the east and the Carpaihia moved
toward the west, and once more the Carpathia was out of range. She
was beyond the reach of the Olympic or any other means of transmit-
ting her news to the shore.
I examined the map to see how soon she would come within ran^ of
the Sable Island Marconi station. I thought that she must pass within
150 miles of there and be within range during some time on Tuesday.
But we had no word. We sent messages to ner frequently from the
coast stations, which had a long range and could reach her, while she
could not respond, but received no response.
I did send a message to the Olympic and did receive a response from
a man who was a passenger on tnat ship, saying that the Olympic had
gone on to the scene of the disaster and passed on east, anci he re-
ported that they found nothing on the ground except some unimpor-
tant wreck^e.
Then on Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday we were struggling
to get some word.
On Thursday morning a representative of the Marconi Co. came to
my office and made a proposition to sell me the news that should come
in by the Carpathia respecting the Titanic disaster, and I made the
arrangement with him to buy it, and we waited all day long Thursday
to get that news, which never arrived.
The Marconi people themselves, I know, were striving in every
way to get that news, to sell it to us, because they came volun-
tarily on the morning of Thursday and made that contract.
Senator Smith. Wno came ?
Mr. Stone. Two men. I think the name of one of the men was
Hugh. He was one of their representatives. I can not remember
the name of the other man. It was not Mr. Bottomley, nor Mr.
Sammis, nor Mr. Marconi.
I talked with Mr. Bottomley over the telephone. I am perfectly
familiar with his voice and know it was he, and he said:
You understand that there is not anything that we wiU not do to try to get this
news to you. We are struggling as hard as we can to do it.
And I am sure he did do all that was in his power .to get it.
Senator Smith. Let me ask you whether you approve the practice
followed by Binns in the Beptwlic disaster and by Bride and Cottam
in this disaster, of appropriating to themselves such information as
the public were properly entitled to, in return for a reward which
they had some reason to think would await them upon their arrival
in Jifew York ?
Mr. Stone. I certainly do not. I think in the case of a great dis-
aster of this sort tlie widest possible publicity should be given.
On behalf of the Associated Press, I should not want any news-
paper which was not a member of the Associated Press to be cut out
of the possibility of getting this information, which is vital to the
whole country, and I think, and so experessed myself alike to Mr.
Marconi and Mr. Bottomley, that it was a mistake to allow anyone
to make merchandise out of that tiling; subject to this exception,
that I recognize that the Marconi Co. would be entitled to a fair
compensation for the messages that were sent out from there, and I
was ready to give it.
if «•».«,.«.« ff
TITAT;riC DI8A6TEB. 1027
Senator Smith. Was any endeavor made to get from the White
Star officials the information they received over the long distance
telephone in their office at Montreal at 2.30 Monday morning?
Mr. Stone. No; because we had no knowledge until very recently
that they had received any such information. In fact, we have no
knowledge now that they received any such information. We know
nothing about it.
Senator Smith. That is all, Mr. Stone. We are very much obliged
to you.
TESTIMOHT OF &EOBOE A. HABDEB.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. State your name and place of residence, please.
Mr. Hardeb. George A. Harder; 117 Eighth Avenue, Brooklyn.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Harder. Twenty-five.
Senator SinTH. What is your business ?
Mr. Harder. Manufacturer.
Senator Smith. Were you a passenger aboard the Titanic?
Mr. Harder. I was.
Senator Smith. From what point ?
Mr. Harder. I sailed from Cherbourg.
Senator Smith. What stateroom did you have ?
Mr. Harder. We had E-50; that is on E deck.
Senator Smith. Did you notice anything unusual between Cher-
bourg and the place of this accident ?
Mr. Harder. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You agree, do you, with all the other witnesses,
that the weather was fine and clear the night of the accident ?
Mr. Harder. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. It was clear and fine ?
Mr. Harder. Yes,^sir.
Senator Smith. What occurred Sunday night between the hours of
11 and 12 o'clock?
Mr. Harder. About a quarter to 1 1 I went down to my stateroom
with Mrs. Harder and retired for the night; and at 20 minutes to 12
w(^ were not asleep yet, and I heard this thump. It was not a loud
thump; just a dull thump. Then I could feel the boat guiver and
could feel a sort of rumbling, scraping noise along the side of the
boat.
When I went to the porthole I saw this iceberg go by. The port-
liole was closed. The iceberg was, I should say, about 50 to 100 feet
away. I should say it was a7)out as high as the top deck of the boat.
I just got a glimpse of it, and it is hard to tell how high it was.
Senator Smith. What did you do then?
Mr. Harder. I thought wo would go up on deck to see what had
happened; what damage had been done. So wo dressed fully and
went up on deck, and there we saw quite a number of people talking;
and nobody seemed to think anything serious had happened. There
were such remarks as '*0h, it will only be a few hours before we will
be on the way again.''
1028 TITANIC DISASTER.
I walked around the deck two or three times, when I noticed that
the boat was listing quite a good deal on the starboard side; so Mr>.
Harder and myself thought we would go inside and see if there was any
news. We went in there and talked to a few people, and ail of theiii
seemed of the opinion that it was nothing serious.
Senator Smith. Wlio were these people with whom you talked?
Do vou know ?
Mr. Harder. I do not know. I do not know the names.
Senator Smith. Were Mr. and Mrs. Bishop there?
Mr. Harder. Yes. I saw Mr. and Mrs. Bishop, and I saw Colonel
and Mrs. Astor, and they all seemed to be of the opinion that there
was no danger.
A little while after that an officer appeared at the foot of the stairs,
and he announced that everybody should go to their staterooms and
put on their life belts.
Senator Smith. How long was that after the collision ?
Mr. Harder. That, I think, was a little after 12 — about 12 o'clock;
that is, roughly.
So, we immediately went down to our stateroom and took our life
belts and coats and started up the stairs and went to the top deck.
There we saw the crew manning the lifeboats; getting them readv;
swinging them out. So we waited aroimd there, and we were finally
told ' *Go over this way; go over this way." So we followed and went
over toward the first lifeboat, where Mr. and Mrs. Bishop were. That
boat was filled, and so they told us to move on to the next one.
Senator Smith. On whicn side ?
Mr. Harder. The starboard side.
Senator Smith. So that the first boat was filled ?
Mr. Harder. Yes. Somebody told us to move down toward the
second one. We got to the second one, and we were told to go right
in there. I have been told that Mr. Ismay took hold of my wife's
arm — I do not know him, but I have been told that he did — and
pushed her right in. Then I followed.
Senator Smith. How far did you have to step from the side of the
ship into the lifeboat?
Mr. Harder. I should say it was about a foot^md a half. Any w^ay,
you had to jump. When I jumped in there, one foot went in between
the oare, and I got in there and could not move imtil somebody
pulled me over.
I forgot to say that when I went down into my stateroom in order
to get the life belts, when we came out of the stateroom with the Ufe
belts I noticed about four or five men on this E deck, and one of them
had one of these T-handled wrenches, used to turn some kind of a nut
or bolt, and two or three of the other men had wrenches with them —
Stilson wrenches, or something like that. I did not take any par-
ticular notice, but I did notice this. one man trying to turn this thin^r
in the floor. There was a brass plate or something there.
Senator Smith. Was it marked '^W. T."?
Mr. Harder. Yes; it was marked '*W. T.,'* and I do not know
whether it was a ' ' D '' after that or something else. A few days before
that, however, I noticed that brass plate, and, naturally, seeing the
initials ^'W. T.,'* I thought it meant water-tight doors, or com-
partments.
Senator Smith. Was that in the floor?
ti .^^.-.^.^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 1029
Mr. Harder. Yes.
Senator Smith. On what deck?
Mr. Harder. On E deck. It was on the starboard side of the boat,
in the hallway. I think this brass plate was situated between the
stairs and the elevators. The stairs were right in front of the ele-
vators, and right in between there, I think, was this brass plate.
We heard one of these men with the wrenches sav: ^' Well, its no
use. This one won't work. Let's try another one.
They did not seem to be nervous, at all; so I thought at the time
there was no danger; that they were just doing that for the sake of
precaution.
Senator Smith. Did any of those men state, in your hearing, the
importance of being able to turn that bolt or nut ?
Mr. Harder. No, sir; they did not.
Senator Smith. Did you gather from what you saw that it was
connected directly with the water-tight compartments ?
Mr. Harder. Yes, sir; I thought it was. I related the incident to
Mr. Bishop after the accident.
Senator Smith. How large was this plate ?
Mr. Harder. The plate was, I shoula say, about 10 inches or a foot
wide. It was about circular. I do not remember anything else about
it, except that it had the initials *' W. T. C' or ^' W. T. D.'' or some-
thing like that. I know it had the initials *'W. T.'' and something
else.
Senator Smith. Proceed to tell us regarding the lifeboat.
Mr. Harder. We got into the lifeboat, which was either No. 7 or
No. 5, I do not know which.
Senator Smith. Who was in charge of it?
Mr. Harder. Mr. Pitman. That was the second boat to leave
on the starboard side, as far as I could see.
As we were being lowered, they lowered one side quicker than
the other, but we finally reached the water safely, after a few scares.
When we got down into the wat«r, somebody said the plug was
not in; so they fished around to see if that was in, and I guess it
was in. Then, they could not get the boat detached from the tackle,
so they fussed around there for a while, and finally they asked if
anybody had a knife, and nobody seemed to have a knife. Finally,
one of the passengers had a knife in his possession, and they cut
some rope; what it was I do not know.
Senator Smith. Do you know what passenger that was ?
Mr. Harder. No, sir; I do not. I can not remember his name.
Senator Smith. Do you wish to be understood as saying that the
tackle or gear by which this boat was lowered did not work properly ?
Mr. Harder. You mean when we lowered down ? No. That was
on account of the crew up on the deck. They had two or three
men on each side, letting out the rope, and they let out the rope
on one side faster than the other. That caused the boat to assume
this position going down [indicating] and we thought for a time
that we were all going to be dumped out. We finally reached the
water all right.
Then the next job was to get the ropes at each end of the boat, the
bow and the stern of the lifeooat, detached. I understand there was
some new patented lever on there, some device that you pull, and that
would let loose the whole thing. Whether they did not know that was
ii .^^...^^ ff
1030 TIIAiniO IHfiAflXBB.
there or not, I do not know; I presume they did not, because they did
not seem to get it to work, ana they finally had to resort to this knife.
Senator SMriH. You got away from the side of the boat?
Mr. Habdeb. Yes; and we started to pull away from the ship.
We had, as I learned afterwards, about 42 people in the boat.
Senator Smith. How many women were in the boat t
Mr. Habdeb. I should say, roughly, about 30 women. That is just
a guess.
Senator Smith. And who composed the remainder of the people in
the boat ?
Mr. Habdeb. There was this officer, and there was a sailor, and
then there were about three men in the boat; as far as I could judge
some kind of seamen. I do not know whether they were stewards or
whether they were seamen; they were not dressed as sailors. There
was only one man there with a regular sailor's hat and blouse.
Senator Smith. Did they know anything about handling the boat !
Mr. Habdeb. Yes; they seemed to be able to row as well as pos-
sible. Of course, those boats are very unwieldly sort of things, and
have great big long oars.
Senator Smith. I want to call your attention specifically to a state-
ment made by Mr. Pitman, officer in charge of that boat. He says
that they rowed off some distance from the side of the ship. Is that
correct ?
Mr. Habdeb. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And that there were cries for help, and the pas-
sengers in that boat would not permit him, Pitman, to go to their
rcUef.
Mr. Habdeb. This is the way it was. Senator: We rowed out there
some distance from the ship. How far it was, I do not know. It
may have been as far as a quarter of a mile, and it may have been
one-eighth of a mile. At any rate, we were afraid of the suction.
So the passengers said, ''Let us row out a little farther." So they
rowed out farther, perhaps about a half a mile; it may have been
three-quarters of a mile. There we waited, and after waiting around
a while, there was this other boat that came alongside, that Pitman
hailed alongside; and that was either boat No. 7 or boat No. 5, I do
not know which, in which Mr. and Mrs. Bishop were. We tied along-
side of that, and tliey had 29 people in their boat, and we counted
the number of people in our boat; and at that time we only counted,
I think it was, 36. So we gave them four or five of our people in
order to make it even, as we were kind of crowded.
Senator Smith. This was a large Ufeboat that you were in ?
Mr. Habdeb. Yes, sir; it was the regular size lifeboat.
They say those boats hold 60 people, but we had only the number
of people 1 have mentioned; ana, believe me, we did not have room
to spare.
Then we waited out there until the ship went down. We were
out there until the ship went down. After it went down, we heard a
lot of these cries and yells. You could not hear any shouts for help,
or anything like that. It was a sort of continuous yelling or moaning.
You could not distinguish any sounds. It was more like — what I
thought it was — the steerage on rafts, and that they were all hysterical.
That is the way it sounded in the distance.
ti ,«*».««*^ 99
TITANIC DISASTER. 1031
Then we stayed around there until daybreak, when we saw the
Carpathian and we rowed the distance; I do not know how far it was;
probably 2 miles; it might have been less.
Senator Smith. You agree with the others that in the morning
the presence of these iceoeigs in large numbers was disclosed?
Mr. Harder. Yes; I counted about 10 of them around.
Senator Smith. How large, in your judgment, was the largest one ?
Mr. Harder. I should not like to make a statement in regard to
that Senator, because I am ver^ poor at guessing distances and
dimensions. They were of good size.
Senator SMrrn. Is there anything else you can sa^ bearing on
this matter that will be helpful to the committee in its endeavors
to get all the facts and circumstances leading up to and subsequent
to this accident?
Mr. Harder. No, sir; there is nothing else that I can think of.
Our boat was managed very well. It is true this officer did want
to go back to the ship, but all the passengers held out and said: ''Do
not do that. Do not do that. It would only be foolish if we went
back there. There will be so many around they will only swamp the
boat.'' And, at the time, I do not think those people appreciated
that there were not sufficient Ufeboats to go around. I never paid
any attention to how many lifeboats there were. I did not know.
Senator SMmi. Did ^our lifeboat have a light in it ?
Mr. Harder. No, sir; it did not have any light. There was a
cask in the boat to contain water. I do not know whether there
was any water in it or not. I would not say that there was or was
not. There was also a box in there, about the size of an ordinary
soap box. It was all nailed up, and I do not know what was- in it.
But we had no light. They aid not even have matches. I had a
box of matches in my pocket. There did not seem to be any matches
in the boat. We thought perhaps we might need them.
Senator Smith. That is all, Mr. Harder. We are very much obliged
to you for coming.
Mr. Harder. There is just one other point I might mention,
Senator. I have been told that all these water-tight doors operate
by electricitv from the bridge — all the doors below the decks, m the
hold — and that this one deck, F, below E deck, had doors that were
worked by hand, and that this plate in the floor of E deck, to
which I have referred, was the place where they were to be turned
bv hand.
TE8TIM0VT OF JOHV E. BDrVS.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. State your full name and residence, please.
Mr. BiNNS. John Robinson Binns. My residence is 235 West
One hundred and thirty-second Street, New York City. At present
I am on the staff of the New York American.
Senator Smith. You were in the employ of the Marconi Wireless
Telegraph Co. for some time, were you not ?
Mr. Binns. Yes; for eight years.
1032 TITANIC DISASTEB.
Senator Smith. During that time where did you serve ?
Mr. BiNNS. I have served in various parts of the world; on Grerman
ships, on English ships, and also on American ships.
senator Smith. On what ships of the White Star Line have you
served ?
Mr. BiNNS. On the RepubliCj Adriatic^ and Olympic.
Senator Smith. Were you the wireless operator at the time of the
disaster to the Republic?
Mr. BiNNS. I was; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you state to the committee whether news con-
cerning that disaster was promptly sent out from the Republic imme-
diately following the disaster ?
Mr. BiNNS. Yes; the news was sent out immediately.
Senator Smith. And in detail ?
I Mr. BiNNs. Not exactly in detail, but the exact details of the acci-
dent, in so far as they referred to the Republic generally.
Senator Smith. As I have been informed, you gave your personal
experiences to some newspaper on your arrival in New York?
Mr. BiNNS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Will you state the circumstances under which that
was done ?
Mr. BiNNS. After the sinking of the Republic we were transferre<l
to the United States revenue cutter Gresham, and thence to the Unite<l
States revenue cutter Seneca.
Coming up the coast I received wireless messages from various
newspapers asking me for my own personal story. This I submitted
to Capt. Sealby, and asked nis opmion about the matter. He said
that should the White Star Line have no objection to it, he certainly
! would not.
I During the voyage I also received a message from the Marconi Co.
asking me to reserve the story, if possible, for the New York Times,
owing to their friendly connection with the Marconi Co., by whom I
was employed at that time.
1 arrived in New York, and made a report to the White Star Line,
and asked Mr. Franklin if he had any objection to my writing my
own personal story to the New York Times, to which he said "no.*
I had the story already written out, and I had already submitted
it to Capt. Sealby, and also to Mr. Franklin, and the story was then
handed over to the New York Times. This story, by the way, was
handed over a day and a half after the passengers on the Republic
had been landed in New York City.
Senator Smith. Is there anything else connected with that matter
which will be useful to the committee ?
Mr. BiNNS. I handed in the story to the New York Times Tuesday
evening, the 26th of January, and then immediately left for Mr. Boi-
tomley^s house, where I was staying at that time.
There was some dispute with the New York Times the following
morning regarding the price to be paid for this story, which, I under-
stood, was $500. They offered me a check for $100, which I refused.
I then mentioned the matter to Mr. Bottomley, the vice president of
the Marconi Co., who took the matter up with the editor of the New
York Times, and a check for $250 was eventuallv sent me, with an
explanation saying that had the story been handed in on Monday
" TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1033
evening instead of Tuesday evening it would have been worth the.
amount they originaUy offered.
Senator Smith. From your experience as a wireless operator, can
you account for the failure to give to the public promptly this infor-
mation pertaining to the disaster to the luanicf
Mr. BiNNS. The only explanation that I could give is the general
inadequacy of the set installed on board the Carpaihia to cover the
distances required in communication with the land stations in that
vicinity. The set on the Carpaihia is what is known as a coil set, and
the combination used is what is known as plain aerial. In this com-
bination the antenna between the masts is joined directly to one side
of the spark gap and grounded to the other.
In the event of damp or rainy weather the insulators holding the
antenna between the masts, becoming moist, allow a great leakage,
and this leakage dissipates the energy produced by the coil, ana
consequently reduces the radius of communication.
At the time of the Titanic disaster the atmosphere in the vicinity
was rather moist, and the probability is that the Carpaihia was unabfe
to attain more than 75 miles communicating radius.
Senator Smith. The testimony shows that the apparatus on the
Carpaihia was adapted to communicate 200 miles under favorable
conditions, and possibly a longer distance at night under favorable
circumstances.
Mr. BiNNS. Under abnormal conditions.
The Carpaihia was equipped with the same type of apparatus that
was on the Republic at the time of the disaster to that ship.
Senator Smith. What have you to say with reference to the dis-r
cipUne of operators aboard ship ?
Mr. BiNNS. Nominally, the operator is under the command of the
captain, whose orders he must at all times obey. There are no fixed
regulations in this respect, ahd the operator, being in charge of an
apparatus that no one else on board understands, is to a great extent^
thoroughly in charge of the working of it. Where a single operator
is employed on the ship, he uses his own discretion as to the times
when he is on duty. For that purpose he is supplied with a com- '
munication chart by the Marconi Co., which he has to study and take
the times for his watch in connection with this chart. The general
practice on the Atlantic Ocean is to remain on watch throughout the
greater part of the day and take a rest at night.
Senator Smith. Mr. Binns, do you not think it would be more serv-
iceable if, on ships where it is imnracticable to have two operators,
the watch of the single operator snould be from 6 o'clock at night
until 6 o'clock in the morning, in order that he might always be ready
to take communications from other ships at a time when other means
of observation are most difficult ?
Mr. BiNNS. In cases where it is impossible or impracticable to
have two operators, I think that the operator himself should be on
duty during the night watch, and that a cadet or wireless-telesraph
learner should be suppHed to take the dav watch. A man of this
description could be very easily obtainea, and need have only a
slight knowledge of the Morse code, and also a sU^ht knowledge of
the wireless apparatus. In the event of a particular ship being
caUed and his not being able to manage the communication^ he
40475— PT 12—12 3
1084 TITANIC DISASTBB.
should immediately call his chief wireless operator. However, I
thhik, and I always have thought that in ail cases two operators
should be supplied to every vessS.
Senator Smith. Let me call your attention to the fact that the
Calif omian was but 14 miles from the Titemic when it sank. If there
had been a wireless operator on duty on the Califomian, in all proba-
bility every passenger and member of the crew of the Titanic could
have been saved,
Mr, BiNNS. Yes; that is so.
Senator SMrrn. Do you know the wireless equipment of the
Oalifamian at this time?
Mr. BiNNs. Yes. One of my last assignments in the employ of
the Marconi Co. was the overhauling of that apparatus. Some niinor
trouble had occurred at the end of the first voyage in New York, and
I was asked by the United States wireless-telegraph inspector, in mr
capacity as traveling inspector of the Marcom Co., to overhaul this
apparatus and place it in working condition. The set on the
OcUifomicm is a standard one and one-half kilowatt Marconi apparatus.
It is in every way a modem set, and is a very efficient set, and could
work to 260 miles under any circumstances.
Senator Smith. How far could it communicate under favorable
circumstances ?
Mr. BiNNS. Possibly, as a maximum, 500 to 800 miles.
Senator Smith. Why did not the CarpcMia's operator give to the
CaHfomian all the information in his possession regarding the Tiianic
disaster, and in that way reach the Olympic and some shore station
that would have been serviceable in givmg to the public this informa-
tion?
Mr. BiNNS. I do not know why. I can not conceive why he did not.
I think it might possibly have been done that way. The Califamiari
should have been able to communicate* with Cape Rac« direct from
the scene of the accident, which the Carpaihia could not do.
Senator Smith. Can you say anything else that wdl throw any light
on the inquiry we are making as to the causes leading up to this acci-
dent and the subsequent events ?
Mr. BiNNS. I will say this, Senator: Immediately a vessel gets into
communication with another vessel, and has seen or passed icebergs
of any description, a message to that effect is sent to all others, and
in this way information of dangers to navigation is always transmitted
at the earliest possible moment, as a warning.
Senator Smith. In your pract\pe, this is regarded as the most
important information that can be communicated from one ship to
another 1
Mr. BiNNS. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you observed any part of the construction of
the Olympic f on which you served, which was followed in the construc-
tion of her sister ship, tne Titanic y which you think would be of interest
to the committee ?
Mr. BiKNs. The Olympic has what is known as two expansion joints.
These joints are composed in this way: The ship is split completelr
througn the deck and also through the sides of the ship to a point
above the water line; the split is then joined over oy a curved
piece of steel, which is riveted to each side of the severed part- of the
ship. The idea of this joint is to reduce the excessive vibrations
ii «,»«.^^,^ >f
TITANIC WSASTKB. 1036
caused by the high speed of the ship. In my opinion this is an ele-
ment of weakness and tends to detract from its structural strength.
This I observed on the Olympic; and the Titanic was built in the same
way. The same feature was followed in the Titanic, which vessel I
observed prior to her launching^ and the launching of which I also
witnessed in Belfast.
I have observed steamship construction^ and am quite familiar with
the plans of the Olympic ana the Titanic, and with those of the Mauri-
tania and the Lasitania of the Cunard Line.
From the plans of the Olympic and the Titanic the vessel has been
built to meet every possible accident with the exception of a glancing^
blow such as the Ttianic received. The ship has a certain number m
water-tight compartments and also a double bottom; but according
to the plans the sides of the ship are just a single shell under the water
line, and in the event of a glancmg blow extending from one end of the
ship to the other the water-tight compartments would be rendered
absolutely useless, owing to the fact that there is no side protection.
In the plans of the Mauritania and Lu&itania, of the Cunard Line,
these vessels are shown to have double cellular sides as well as a double
cellular bottom. Also, on the inside of the inner plating of the cellular
sides are the coal bunkers, which can also be turned into water-ti^ht
compartments. In the event of a glancing blow ripping up the side
of one of these vessels, they would still remain afloat, o^oug to the
presence of the inner shell of the vessel's cellular sides. In the event
of both the outer and inner plates of the vessel's double cellular side
bein^ pierced, an extra protection is afforded by the coal bunkers,
which could be temporarily turned into water-tight compartments.
This is a very strong point in ship construction, and no vessel should
in the future be allowed to be built without this double protection,
which, in my opinion, makes a ship really unsinkable.
As nearly as I can remember, this double cellular side construction
which I have described was a condition precedent to the granting of a
subsidy by the British Government to these ships.
Senator Smith. That is all, Mr. Binns. We are very much obliged
to you.
TESTIMOHY OF OLAUS ABEISETH.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator SMrrn. How old are you ?
Mr. Abelseth. Twenty-six years of age in June.
Senator Smith. Did you sail on the Txtanicf
Mr. Abelseth. Yes.
Senator Smith. From what port ?
Mr. Abelseth. From Southampton.
Senator Smith. Where had you been ?
Mr. Abelseth. I had been in Norway. I loft here last faU.
Senator Smith. Where do you live now ?
Mr. Abelseth. My home is in South Dakota, where I have my
homestead.
ft .-M-.-M^^ 99
1036 TITAKIO DIBASTEB.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the reporter when you first
knew of this collision, and what you did, and where you were in the
ship. I believe you were a steerage passenger?
Air. Abelseth. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. In the forward part of the ship ?
Mr. Abelseth. Yes. I was in compartment G on the ship.
Senator Smith. Go ahead and tell us just what happened.
Mr, Abelseth. I went to bed about 10 o'clock Sunday ni^ht,^and
I think it was about 15 minutes to 12 when I woke up; and there was
another man in the same room — two of us in the same room — and he
said to me, **What is that ?" I said, *'I don't know, but we had better
get up." So we did get up and put our clothes on, and we two went
up on deck in the forwarcl part of the ship.
Then there was quite a lot of ice on the starboard part of the ship.
They wanted us to go down again, and I saw one of the oflBcers, and
I said to him: ^*Is there any danger?" He said, **No." I was not
satisfied with that, however, so I went down and told my brother-
in-law and my cousin, who were in the same compartment there.
They were not in the same room, but they were just a little ways
from where I was. I told them about what was nappening, and I
said they had better get up. Both of themgot up and dressed, and
we took our overcoats and put them on. We did not take any life
belts with us. There was no water on the deck at that time.
We walked to the hind part of the ship and got two Norwegian
girls up. One was in my cnarge and one was in char^ of the man
who was in the same room with me. He was from the same town
that I came from. The other one was just 16 years old, and her
father told me to take care of her until we got to Minneapolis. The
two girls were in a room in the hind part of the ship, in the steerage.
We all went up on deck and stayed there. We walked over to the
port side of the ship, and there were five of us standing, looking, and
we thought we saw a light.
Senator Smith. On wnat deck were you standing ?
Mr. Abelseth. Not on the top deck, but on — I do not know what
you call it, but it is the hind part, where the sitting room is; and then
there is a kind of a little space in between, where they go up on deck.
It was up on the boat deck, the place for the steerage passengenB on
the deck. We were then on the port side there, and we looked out
at this light. I said to my brother-in-law: ''I can see it plain, now.
It must be a light."
Senator Smith. How far awav was it ?
Mr. Abelseth. I could not say, but it did not seem to be so very
far. I thought I could see this mast light, the front mast light.
That is what I thought I could see.
A little while later there was one of the oificers who came and said
to be quiet, that there was a ship coming. That is all he said. He
did not say what time, or anything. That is all he said.
So I said to them, we had better go and get the life belts, as we had
not brought them with us. So my cousin and I went down to get
the life belts for all of us. When we came up again we carried the
Ufe belts on our arms for a while.
There were a lot of steerage people there that were getting on one
of these cranes that they had on deck, that they used to lift things
with. They can Uft about two and a half tons, I believe. These
ti ..«.-.. «**^ fT
UTANIO DISASTER, 1037
steerage passengers were crawling along on this, over the railing, and
away up to the boat deck. A lot of them were doing that.
Senator Smith. They could not get up there in any other way ?
Mr. Abelseth. This ^ate was shut.
Senator Smith. Was it locked ?
Mr. Abelseth. I do not know whether it was locked, but it was
shut so that they could not go that way.
A while later these girls were standing there, and one of the officers
came and hollered for all of the ladies to come up on the boat deck.
The gate was opened and these two girla went up.
We stayed a little while longer, and then they said, "Everybody."
I do not know who that was, out I think it was some of the officers
that said it. I could not say that, but it was somebody that said
''everybody." We went up. We went over to the port side of the
ship, and there were just one or two boats on the port side that were
lost. Anyway, there was one. We were standing there looking at
them lowering this boat. We could see them, some of the crew
helping take the ladies in their arms and throwing them into the
lifeooats. We saw them lower this boat, and there were no more
boats on the port side.
So we walked over to the starboard side of the ship, and just as
we were standing there, one of the officers came up and he said just
as he walked by, ''Are there any sailors here?"
I did not say anything. I have been a fishing man for six years,
and, of course, this officer walked right by me and asked: "Are there
any sailors here?" I would have gone, but my brother-in-law and
my cousin said, in the Norwegian language, as we wer^ speaking
Norwegian: "Let us stay here together." I do not know, but I think
the officer wanted some help to get some of these collapsible boats
out. All he said was: "Are there any sailors here?" I did not say
anything, but I have been used to the ocean for a long time. I com-
menced to work on the ocean when I was 10 years old with my dad
fishing. I kept that up until I came to this country.
Then we stayed there, and we were just standing still there. We
did not talk very much. Just a little ways from us I saw there was an
old couple standing there on the deck, and I heard this man say to
the lady, "Go into the lifeboat and get saved." He put his hand on
her shoulder and I think he said : "Please get into the lifeboat and get
saved." She replied: "No; let me stay with you." I could not say
who it was, but I saw that he was an old man. I did not pay much
attention to him, because I did not know him.
I was standing there, and I asked my brother-in-law if he could
swim and he said no. I asked my cousin if he could swim and
he said no. So we could see the water coining up, the bow of the
ship was going down, and there was a kind of an explosion. We could
hear the popping and cracking, and the deck raised up and got so
steep that tne people could not stand on their feet on tne deck. So
they fell down and slid on the deck into the water right on the ship.
{Then we hung onto a rope in one of the davits. We were pretty far
back at the top deck.
My brother-in-law said to me, "We had better jump off or the suc-
tion will take us down." I said, '*No. We won^t jump yet. We
ain ^t got much show anyhow, so we might as well stay as long as we
can. " So he stated again, "We must jump off. " But I said, "No;
(t .—^.^ ^ f9
1038 TITANIC DISASTER.
not jret. " So, then, it was only about 5 feet down to the water when
we jumped off. It was not much of a jump. Before that we could
see the people were jumping over. There was water coming onto the
deck, and thej^ were jumping. over, then, out in the water.
My brother-in-law took my hand just as we jumped off, and mv
cousin jumped at the same time. When we came into the water, I think
it was from the suction — or anyway we went under, and I swallowed
some water. I got a rope tangled around me, and I let loose of my bro-
ther-in-law 's hand to get*away from the rope. I thought then, * ' 1 am a
goner. " That is what I thought when I got tangled up in this rope.
But I came on top again, and I was trying to swim, and there was a
man — lots of them were floating around — and he got me on the neck
like that [iUustrating] and pressed me under, trying to get on top of
me. I said to him. Let go. " Of course, he did not pay any atten-
tion to that, but I got away from him. Then there was another man,
and he hung on to me for a wliile, but he let go. Then I swam; J
could not say, but it must have been about 15 or 20 minutes. It
could not have been over that. Then I saw something dark ahead of
me. I did not know what it was, but I swam toward that, and it was
one of those collapsible boats.
When we jumped off of the ship, we had life preservers on. There
was no suction from the ship at all. I was lying still, and I thought
"I will try to see if I can float on the life belt without help from
swimming," and I floated easily on the life belt.
When I got on this raft or collapsible boat, they did not try to
push me on, and they did not do anything for me to get on. All
they said when I got on there was, ^ 'Don't capsize the boat." So I
hung onto the raft for a little while before I got on.
Some of them were trying to get up on their feet. They were
sitting down or lying down on the raft. Some of them fell into the
water again. Some of them were frozen; and there were two dead,
that they threw overboard.
I got on this raft or collapsible boat and raised up, and then I was
contmually moving my arms and swinging them around to keep
warm. There was one lady aboard this raft, and she got saved. 1
do not know her name. 1 saw her on board the Carpaihia^ but I
foi^ot to ask her name. There were also two Swedes, and a first-
class passenger — I beUeve that is what he said — and he had just his
underwear on. I asked him if he was married, and he said he had a
wife and a child. There was also a fireman named Thompson on the
same raft. He had burned one of his hands. Also tnere was a
young boy, with a name that sounded like Volunteer. He was at
St. Vmcent's Hospital afterwards. Thompson was there, too.
The next mommg we could see some of the lifeboats. One of the
boats had a sail up, and he came pretty close, and then we said,
"One, two, three"; we said that quite often. We did not talk very
mucli, except that we would say, "One, two, three," and scream
together for help.
Senator Smith. Was this collapsible boat that you were in filhnt
with water?
Mr. Abelseth. There was water on the top.
Senator SMrrn. Were you on the top of the overturned collapsible
boat?
(( »^...««.^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER* 1039
Mr. Abelseth. No. The boat was not capsized. We were stand-
ing on the deck. In this Uttle boat the canvas was not raised up.
We tried to raise the canvas up but we could not get it up. We
stood all night in about 12 or 14 inches of water on this thing and
our feet were in the water all the time. I could not say exactly how
long we were there, but I know it was more than four hours on this
raft.
This same boat I was telling about
Senator Smith. The sailboat ?
Mr. Abelseth. Yes; when the Carpathia came she was picked up..
There were several boats there then. It was broad daylight and you
could see the Carpathia. Then this boat sailed down to us and took
us aboard, and took us in to the Carpathia. I helped row in to the
Carpathia.
Senator Smith. Did you see any icebergs- on that morning?
Mr. Abelseth. We saw three big ones. They were quite a ways off.
Senator Smith. I want to direct your attention again to the steer-
age. Do you think the passengers in the steerage and in the bow of
the boat had an opportunity to get out and up on the decks, or were
they held back 'i
Mr. Abelseth. Yes, I think they had an opportunity to get up.
Senator Smith. There were no gates or doors locked, or anything
that kept them down?
Mr. Abelseth. No, sir; not that I could see.
Senator Smith. You said that a number of them climbed up one
of these cranes ?
Mr. Abelseth. That was on the top, on the deck; after they got
on the deck. That was in order to get up on this boat deck.
Senator Smith. Onto the top deck?
Mr. Abelseth. Onto the top deck; yes. But down where we
were, in the rooms, I do not think there was anybody that held any-
body back.
Senator Smith. You were not under any restraint ? You were per-
mitted to go aboard the boats the same as other passengers ?
Mr. Abelseth. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you think the steerage passengers in your part
of the sliip all got out ?
Mr. Abelseth. I could not say that for sure; but I think the most
of them got out.
Senator Smith. Did that part of the ship fill rapidly with water ?
Mr. Abelseth. Oh, yes; I think that filled up; yes. There was a
friend of mine told me that he went back for something he wanted,
and then there was so much water there that he could not get to his
room.
Senator Smith. Were the three relatives of yours from Norway
lost ?
Mr. Abelseth. Yes; they were lost.
Senator Smith. You never saw them after you parted from them
at the time you spoke of ?
Mr. Abelseth. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Do you know how many people there were in that
lifeboat that you were in ?
Mr. Abelseth. I could not sav for sure ; but there must have been
10 or 12. They got saved off of this raft. There was one man from
(( ^*».«^*^ yy
1040 TITANIC DISASTER.
New Jersey that I came in company with from London. I do not
Imow what his name was. I triea to keep this man alive; but I could
not make it. It was just at the break of day, and he was lying down,
and he seemed to be kind of unconscious; he was not really dead, and
I took him by the shoulder and raised him up, so that he was sitting
up on this deck.
Senator Smith. He was sitting on a seat ?
Mr. Abelseth. He was just sitting down right on the deck. I said
to him, *'We can see a ship now. Brace up " And I took one of his
hands and raised it up Uke that [illustrating], and I took him by the
shoulder and shook him, and he said, ^'Who are you?" He said,
''Let me be. Who are you V* I held him up Uke that for a while,
but I got tired and cold, and I took a Uttle piece of a small board, a
lot of which were floating around there, and laid it under his head
on the edge of the boat to keep his head from the water; but it was
not more than about half an hour or so when he died.
Senator Smith. That is all. We are very much obUged to you.
TESTIMGITT OF MB. NO&MAIT CAMPBELL CHAMBEBS.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chairman of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
- Senator Smith. Please state your full name and residence.
Mr. Chambers. Norman Campbell Chambers, 111 Broadway, Xew
York.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Chambers. Mechanical engineer.
Senator Smfth. You were on board the Titanic on this ill-fated
voyage ?
Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. I wish you would tell the committee what you
know about the collision, and any circumstances leading up to or
subsequent to the impact, which may tend to throw hght upon this
unfortunate affair.
First, did you, after the impact, observe the condition of the water-
tight compartments ?
MT. Chambers. Our stateroom was E-8, on the starboard side;
that is the lowest berth deck, and as far as I know, we were as far for-
ward as any of the first-cabin passengers on that deck.
At the time of the collision I was in bed, and I noticed no very
great shock, the loudest noise by far being that of jano^ling chains
whipping along the sides of the ship. This passed so quickly that I
assumed something had gone wrong with the engines on the starboard
side.
Senator Smith. What did you do then ?
Mr. Chambers. At the request of my wife I prepared to investigate
what had happened, leaving her dressing. I threw on sufficient
clothes, including my overcoat. I went up, in a leisurelv manner, as
far as the A deci on the starboard side. There I noted onlv an un-
usual coldness of the air. Looking over the side I was unal>le to see
anything in any direction.
<t ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 1041
I returned below, where I was joined by my wife, and we came up
again to investigate, still finding nothin^j. However, there was then
a noticeable list to starboard, with probably a few degrees of pitch;
and as the ship had had a list to port nearly all afternoon, I deciaed to
remain up, in spite of a feeling oi perfect safety.
Upon returning to the stateroom for the purpose of completing
dressing, I looked at the starboard end of our passageway, where
there was the companion leading to the quarters of the mail clerks
and farther on to the baggage room and, 1 believe, the mail-sorting
room, and at the top of these stairs I found a couple of mail clerks wet
to their knees, who nad just come up from below, bringing their regis-
tered mail ba^. As the door in the bulkhead in the next deck was
open, I was able to look directly into the trunk room, which was then
filled with water, and within 18 inches or 2 feet of the deck above.
We were standing there joking about our baggage being com-
pletely soaked and about the correspondence which was seen floating
about on the top of the water. I personally felt no sense of danger,
as this water was forward of the bulkhead.
While we were standing there three of the ship's officers — ^I did not
notice their rank or department — descended the first companion and
looked into the baggage room, coming back up immediately, saying
that we were not making any more water. This was not an announce-
ment, but merely a remark passed from one to the other. Then my
wife and myself returned in the direction of our stateroom, a matter
of a few yards only, and as we were going down our own alleyway to
the stateroom door our room steward came by and told us that we
could go on back to bed again; that there was no danger. In this I
agreed with him, personally.
However, I fimshed dressing, my wife being already fully and
warmly clothed, and she in the meanwhile having gone out into the
passage to note any later developments, came rushing back to me,
sa3ring that she had seen another passenger who had informed her
that tne call had been given for life belts and on the boat deck. I
went out, myself, and found my room steward passing down the
alleyway, and had the order verified.
As I was at the time fully dressed and wore my heavy overcoat, in
the pockets of which I had already placed certain necessities, we
started up. My wife had presence of mind enough to take a fife belt.
I opened my steamer trunk and took out a small pocket compass, and,
sending my wife on ahead, opened my bag and removed my automatic
pistol.
We then proceeded immediately upward, my wife being rather
alarmed, as she had also been at the time of the collision. But for
her I should have remained in bed, reading.
We kept on upward, passing, at the various landings, people who
did not appear to be particularly frightened, until we arrived on the
A deck, gomg out on the port side, where I shortly found the deck
steward, joked with him about opening his little office room, and
obtained our two steamer rugs.
We then proceeded up the port outside companion onto the boat
deck. There did not at any time seem to be any particular group of
passengers around tlie boats on the port side, although there were
seamen there unlimbering the gear.
1042 TITANIC DIBA8TEB.
Owing to the list beine to the starboard, I assumed that the boats
which were lowered on the starboard side would be sure to clear the
ship, while those on the port side might have some difficulty. This
was only an assumption, as I have not heard of any such difficultv
since.
We then proceeded over the raised deck caused by the unusual
height of. the ceihng in the lounge, and came down again onto the
boat deck proper on the starboard side. There I gave my wife a
drink from my flask, filled my pipe, put on my life belt at her urgent
request, she having hers already on, and we stood at the rail for a
few moments.
I would Uke to call particular attention to the fact that from the
moment the engines were stopped steam was of course blown out
from the boilers. This, coming through one single steam pipe on the
starboard side of the forward funnel, made a terrifically loud nob^;
so loud, indeed, that persons on the boat deck could only com-
municate by getting as close as possible and speaking loudly. As a
matter of fact, I shouted in mv wife's ear.
All this time I considered that the lifeboats were merely a precau-
tion and, upon my wife's suggestion, we moved up forward to the
entry from the deck house.
There were still quite a number of passengers coming out, the
stewards standing there directing them to the boats aft.
Instead of going aft, we stepped behind the projection of this entr}*,
which was of the vestibule type, and waited until the people had
apparently ceased coming and the steward was no longer there. Then
we started forward again, and, as nearly as I can remember, 8toppe<i
at the last one of the forward starboard group of Ufeboats. This wa«?
already swung out level with the deck and, to my eyes, appeared
sufficiently loaded.
However, my wife said that she was going in that boat, and pro-
ceeded to jump in, calling to me to come. As I knew she would get
out again nad I not come, I finally jumped into the boat, although I
did not consider it, from the loolcs of things, safe to put very many
more people in that boat.
As 1 remember it, there were two more men, both called by their
wives, who j umped in after I did. One of them — a German, I believe—
told me, as I recollect it, later on the Carpathia that he had looked
around and had seen no one else and no one to ask whether he should
go in or not, and had jumped in.
Senator Smith. How many people were in the boat at the time ?
Mir. Chambers. That I can not tell.
By the time we were settled and I began to take note of the things
on the ship I noticed a tall young officer clad in a long overcoat,
whidh may help identify him, giving orders to another officer to go
into our boat and take charge of the boats on our side. As a parting
injunction he gave our officer (whom I later found to be a Mr. Pit-
man) instructions to hold onto his painter and pull up alongside the
gangway after the boat had reached the water.
Preliminarj'- to this, and before lowering, all of which was done
with absolute calm, I heard some one in authority say, **That is
enough before lowering. We can get a lot more in after she is in the
water."
t( ««.■». ^—^ ff
TITANIC DIBASTEB. 1048
I remember these conversations particularly, as at the time I
was wondering at the source of the order, being morally certain,
myself that no doors in the shij>^8 side had been opened.
We were then lowered away in a manner which I would consider
very satisfactory, taking into account the apparent absolute lack
of training of the rank and file of the crew.
Shortly before we reached the water our officer called and finally
blew his whistle for them to stop lowering, that he might find out
whether the plug was in or not. The inquiry was called in a loud
tone of voice, to which one of the crew in our boat replied that it was :
that he himself had put it in. Meanwhile a voice from above callea
down, as nearly as I can recollect it, "It is your own blooming
business to see that the plug is in, anyhow."
When we reached the water, we then had difficulty in casting
off the falls. The little cj^uartermaster had to crawl between our
legs to the amidship portion of the boat in order to reach what
was apparently called the ** trigger," which is, I beUeve, a mechan-
ism used to release both falls simultaneously.
We then put out our oars and crawled away slowly from the ship
until we lay some three or four hundred yards off.
Senator Smith. Did you observe anytning unusual regarding the
water-tight compartments ?
Mr. Chambers. I was rather surprised at the time when she struck
to hear no particular orders or signals for closing the water-tight
doors. By those I mean such as are usually closed by the stewards,
and were, when last I traveled on the Cunarders, a number of years
ago, always tested by being closed by the stewards themselves at
noon or thereabouts.
Senator Smith. At noon of each day ?
Mr. Chambers. At noon each day, yes; when the whistle blew at
noon. That was on the old Etruria and the Umbria. I never trav-
eled on the Campania and Lucania.
While I did not make a careful examination of the mechanism of
the doors, I, at the same time, had looked them over rather more than
casually, on my way to and from the swimming pool in the mornings.
I remember being somewhat surprised that these doors were not
nowadays operated by electricity, tnis being only a landsman's point
of view. As a matter of fact, they were operated from the deck
above, the E deck, by first removing a small boiler plate which fitted
flush with the deck and was unscrewed by means of the two-forked
end of a pin-spanner; that apparently giving access to the square or
hexagon end of a shaft whicn, being rotated by another box wrench
some 2 feet 6 inches in length, witn a T-handle, operated a double
series of bevel gears, the last shaft having on it a pinion meshing in a
door, rack and closing the door.
The cover plates to the mechanism of the water-tight doors, as
far as I am able to state, were not removed before our final departure
for the upper decks.
Senator Smith. Did you see any attempt being made to remove
them ?
Mr. Chambers. I did not. I saw no attempt being made to re-
move them.
Senator Smith. What else can you tell about that matter that will
be helpful to the committee ?
1044 TITANIO DI8ASTBB.
Mr. Chambers. I have no reason to believe thai} any attempt was
made by the stewards, on whom I have always understood this duty
devolved, to close these doors, particularly as a lai^e percentage of
the steward part of the crew were new. Seeing these door j>lat«
undisturbed just before our final departure to the upper decks, I
reached the conclusion that the doors had not been closed.
In connection with my statement that a large percentage of the
steward part of the crew were new, I may say that my own room
steward complained to me on the seiCQnd day out that he did not
know where anything was on the ship, and that no one would teU
hun.
Whereupon, at 6.30 o'clock p. m., the hearing was adjourned until
to-morrow, Saturday, May 4, 1912, at 10 o'clock a. m.
SATXJBDAY, HAY 4, 1G12.
subcommrttee of the commrttee on commerce,
United States Senate,
Nev) York, N. Y.
TESTIMDHY OF FEEDESICK DATTLEB.
[Testimony taken separately before Senator William Alden Smith, chainzuui of the
subcommittee.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. State your full name, please.
Mr. Daulee. Frederick Dauler.
Senator Smith. What is your business ?
Mr. Dauler. I am a clerk for the Western Union Telegraph Co.
Senator Smith. How old are you ?
Mr. Dauler. Fifty-seven years of age.
Senator Smith. How long have you been with the Western Union
Telegranh Co. ?
Mr. Dauler. Forty-one years.
Senator Smith. As such clerk what are your duties ?
Mr. Dauler. My duty is that of an attendant at the delivery
window. I attend all customers, telephones, etc.
Senator Smith. You receive mess^es from the operating room
through a chute ?
Mr. Dauler. Yes, sir; we have a chute, which is about 8 or 9
inches in diameter, which drops down from the eighth floor.
Senator Smith. You address these messages?
Mr. Dauler. We have clerks on the desk right there by the tube,
to address the telegrams.
Senator Smith. Do you address any of them yourself?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You receive these messages; and do you apportion
them among these clerks ?
Mr. Dauler. I get them when the other clerks do not know what
to do with them. I am supposed to finish them up.
ti .«».^.«**^ ff
TITAKIO DISASTER. 1046
Senator Smith. If a telegram should be received at your office and
it was so directed that the address would not be readily known, they
'Would refer it to you ?
Mr. Dauler. 1 es.
Senator Smith. And you would look it up ?
Mr. Dauler. Yes.
Senator Smith. And then you would have the message addressed
and delivered?
Mr. Dauler. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Were you on duty on Monday, April 16 ?
Mr. Dauler. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Between what hours ?
Mr. Dauler. From 7 in the morning until half past 4 o'clock in the
afternoon.
Senator Smith. While you were on duty, did any cable or wireless
message come through your hands addressed to '*Islefrank" ?
Mr. Dauler. Not on Monday the 15th.
Senator Smith. On Tuesday ?
Mr. Dauler. On Tuesday I saw two.
Senator Smith. What did they say ?
Mr. Dauler. It was in reference to the Cedric, from ** Yamsi."
Senator Smfth. Was the name **Islefrank'' known to you?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir; for the reason that it was not mown to the
other clerks, it came to me. We generally had a record of all those
code words in our book. We did not have it in this instance, and it
was referred to me, and I sent a note to our cable department, 16
Broad Street. We send things down by tube, and make it "C. O."
or "commercial." When our company has no code registration for
these particular words, they ship them over to the commercial
company.
In the meantime, I sent this note down. One of the other clerks
saw the telegrams and surmised that it belonged to the White Star
Line. Of course, I did, too. So, he had nothmg to do at the time,
and he went to the telephone and got the address from the cable office
by telephone. In the meantime mine came back, just the same.
Senator Smith. It is customary, is it not, to malce delivery of wire-
less messages through the Western Union when the addressee is
unknown to the wireless company ?
Mr. Dauler'. There are a good manv of those that come to us,
probably wireless, but not otherwise; tnat is, from London, they go
down to the cable office. Wireless messages are sent by some people
who are traveling, foreigners, for instance, going from place to place,
under a code word, although it is against the rules or the company
to accept such telegrams. For instance, a man in Detroit sends a
telegram to any particular name, and of course we are not supposed
to deliver it. We are supposed to notify him back. * ^ See rule so-and-
so pertaining to code addresses.'*
Senator Smith. But you do deliver them ? They are delivered occa-
sionally, just the same?
Mr. Dauler. Wireless telegrams we deliver.
Senator Smith. If the Marconi Co. received a wireless message, and
did not know the address or name of the person to whom the message
was addressed, they would send it through the Western Union for
delivery; and they do occasionally, do they not?
(( -,^-,. ^^^^ 9 9
1046 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Daulbb. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. And you have frequently handled such messages?
Mr. Dauler. Yes; very often. It is a aailv occurrence.
Senator Smith. And in that way you are ooliged to read the mes-
sage in order to identify it as far as you can ?
Mr. Dauler. As far as we can; yes, sir.
Senator &iith. And if there is anything in the message that dis-
closes the person for whom it is intencied^ then you pass it on, through
your messenger boys, to such person ?
Mr. Dauler. I make the inquiry from our cable office, to make sure.
Of course from reading the telegrams we get information as to whom
we think they are intended for, and if we have time we telephone those
people to find out whether they are for them.
Senator Smith. On Monday, the 15th day of April, following the
Titanic disaster you and your son talked over that disaster ?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you not see your son on Monday?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir. My son lives around the comer from w^here
I live. He calls every Sunday morning to see me and his mother.
On that Sunday mormng. that was five days, almost a week, after the
Titanic disaster, I had tne newspaper before me. I ^nerally read
the paper before he comes. He came in and he said, ' * What is new ?"
That is what he generally says after he comes in and says ''Good
morning," and so on. I said, * *There is nothing new that I know of.
only that it is (juite a disaster, this Titanic aflFair.'' He says, *'It is
awful.'' That is as nearly as I can think now.*
Senator Smith. Did you not see your son after the Titamc disaster
until the following Sunday ?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Did you know of his talk with Mr. Dunn?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir; not until I saw it in the newspaper. Then
I knew who was referred to.
Senator Smith. How can you account for that conversation be-
tween your son and Mr. Dunn when Mr. Dunn swears that this
telegram, which passed through your hands and which was known to
your son, related to the sinkmg of the Titanic?
Mr. Dauler. I can not account for any such telegram whatever.
I did not see anything. In fact, it is all new to me. I do not know
what he referred to at all.
Senator Smith. Why has he avoided for several days the plain
statement of the facts ?
Mr. Dauler. As I understand from what I saw in the newspapers
my son was afraid that I would lose my position if anything got out
about it, because I happened to talk to him about the tmi^. Of
course, I read in the papers, every day, about it. The other day I
went to my manager in the Western Union, R. G. Wilson, and I told
him in reference to what I saw in the newspapers; and I saw my son
the night before, and I told him I wished to square this thing up;
that I would like to go and see the Senator; that I would Uke per-
mission from the company to see the Senator. He asked me what
it was and I told him so and so — ^I had two minutes' conversation
with my son, and my son afterwards conversed with somebody else.
I told him the telegrams that were in the paper were the telegrams
that I saw; two of the three that were in tne paper I did see.
( ( — — . ^••^ y y
TITANIC DISASTER. 1047
Senator Smith. Did you say anything to your son about the Wliite
Star people withholding information for purposes of reinsurance ?
Mr. Daui£B. No, sir. I did not know the first thing about it.
Senator Smith. And you are very positive that you did not talk
with your son during the week following the disaster, and did not see
him at all ?
^Ir. Dauler. Yes, sir. I do not see my son except on Sunday
morning.
Senator Smith. Is it not rather unusual that you should live only a
block apart and not see each other more frequently than that ?
>Ir. Dauler. No, sir; there is nothing unusual about 4t. I do not
think I see mv son once in six months except on Sunday. I do not
^o out of the nouse myself, and he comes to see me on Sunday morn-
ing. I go to bed every night at 9 o'clock and get up at half past 5.
Senator Smith. If you had no information and had not communi-
cated anything to him and through him to Mr. Dunn, why so much
mystery about who you were and who your son was, and tne evident
desire to prevent your name from being made public ?
Mr. Dauler. My son feared I would lose my job; that is the only
thing. Otherwise he would have gone.
I honestly tell you that my son telephoned to me and said, "What
do you think that so-and-so r ' I said, " If you have the opportunity,
by all means go to see Senator Smith at Washington and tell him the
whole story. I see nothing in it."
Senator Smith. He did not go.
Mr. Dauler. He was advised differently by somebody else, I sup-
pose, and took the other person's advice.
Senator Smith. And Mr. Dunn was prevented by your son's efforts
from disclosing his name.
Mr. Dauler. I know nothing about what transpired between my
son and Mr. Dunn; but I do know that my son was on the tele-
phone
Senator Smith. Do you wish to be imderstood as saying that no
telegram passed through your hands on Monday following this acci-
dent to the Titanicy which you read and which disclosed the fact that
the ship had sunk ?
Mr. jDauler. No telegram whatever on Monday following the
Titanic disaster; and there are only two telegrams that I saw. Those
two telegrams were printed the following Sunday, four days after
the telegrams actual^ came. That is how the conversation came
along.
Senator Smith. Did you not say to your son that it was all non-
sense for the White Star people to say they did not know about this
on Af onday , because you Knew about it ?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir.
Senator Smith (continuing). And sent a wireless message over to
them W your messenger boy ? *
Mr. Dauler. No, sir; I aid not see my son from the time of the
Titanic disaster until the following Sunday.
My son formerly worked for the Western Union, and he knew that
if any operator or employe gave out any information in referencee
to a telegram he woula be immediately discharged.
For that reason he did not care to go to Washington and appear
before the committee, I guess, on account of my place being in
1048 TTTANIO DISASTER.
jeopardy, and he kept away. But when he got me on the telephone,
1 could not, for the life of me, see anything m it at all. It was simply
that I saw a telegram, and only told my own son a week after the
Titanic disaster. I said: ''By all means, if you have an opportunity,
g) on to Washington and see the Senator, and settJe the whole thin^."
ut he must have gotten advice from somebody else, who advised lum
differently. The other ni^ht he came up to my house and said he had
seen Senator Smith, and he told me just what the whole thing was,
just as I am telling you here; and I believe he said something about
your having told him to see me. I do not know anything about that.
Senator Sftrrn. I did.
Mr. Dauler. Anyhow, he did call up to see me. Then the next
morning I went to my manager and I said to him, ''Mr. Wilson, there
IB a whole lot of newspaper notoriety, and I am onlv too glad to go
and explain the whole situation to the Senator. It looks so mysterious ,
and stul there is nothing in it whatever."
Senator SMrrn. You have said everything that you care to say
bearing upon this matter ?
Mr. JJAXTLER. Yes^ sir.
Senator Smfth. You had nothing whatever to do with your son's
refusal to disclose the names, or to appear before the committee ?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir.
Senator SnrrH. And nothing whatever to do with silencing
Mr. Dunn ?
Mr. Dauler. No, sir; I know nothing of what was going on between
him and Mr. Dunn.
Senator SMrrH. Do you know that this information was given to
Mr. Dunn under the promise that he would not reveal the name of his
informant ?
Mr. Dauler. I suppose such is the case, but I know nothing about
it.
Senator SMrrn. That, in itself, might look as though the informa-
tion was important ?
Mr. Dauler. Yes; but there was nothing important about it
whatever. You have the whole thing in your nands.
Senator Smfth. That is all you want to say, is it ?
Mr. Dauler. I am willing to say anything I know.
Senator Smith. That is an you can say ?
Mr. Dauler. That is all I can say. There were two telegrams, and
I would not have dared tell it to anybody else except my own son;
and then it was only a few minutes' conversation.
Senator SMrrn. That is all.
ADDITIOlSrAL TESTIMOmT OF HABOLD S. BRIDE.
[Before Senator William Alden Smith, at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.]
«
Senator Smith. I have forgotten just the hour when you took the
wireless instrument after you went aboard the Carpathia, Mr. Bride
Did you take it right away ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir; it was Tuesday evening, about 6 o'clock.
Senator Smith. You did not take it before that time at all ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. You were not well enough?
Mr. Bride. I was in the hospital, sir.
t( . ^••^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 1049
Senator Smith. You were in the hospital on board the ship ?
Mr. Bride. On the Carpathia; yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Did vou ever see that message, signed Bruce
Ismay and addressed **lslefrank'^ ? [Exhibiting message.]
Mr. Bride. I can not say whether I have seen it or not.
Senator Smith. It is rather an important message. If you had
seen it, you would probably remember it, would you not ?
Mr. Bride. There were several important messages sent.
Senator Smith. You can not recollect that ?
Mr. Bride. No, sir.
Senator Smith. When do you expect to 20 home, Mr. Bride?
Mr. Bride. I had arranged to go home this morning; but when I
got down to the Caronia, I could not find room on board, and on the
Minnetonka they had no room for me.
Senator Smith. You mean you wanted to go as a passenger?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir. I think I shall wait and go back on the Baltic.
Senator Smith. Who is the wireless operator aboard the Baltic f
Mr. Bride. Mr. Balfour is the senior operator, sir. He is the trav-
eling inspector, also, for the Marconi Co,
Senator Smith. When is Cottam going home ?
Mr. Bride. He is going back as the third operator on the Caronia.
Senator Smith. Is that a large ship ?
Mr. Bride. Yes, sir; she is one of the best.
Here is a paper, sir, that may be of interest to you. It is a report
which I have made to Mr. Cross, the traffic manager of the Marconi Co.
Senator Smith. Yes; this is interesting. [Reading:]
No. 294 West Ninety-sbcond Street,
Xew York City, N. Y., April 27, 191t.
W. R. Cross, Esq.
Dear Sir: Hearing of the conflicting? reports concerning the loss of the Titanic,
which are being spread around, I think it is advisable for me to give you, to the best
of my ability, a true account of the disaster, so that the Marconi Co. may be in full
possession of all the facts.
I regret to say my memory fails me with r^ard to the time of the occurrence or
any of the preceding incidents; but otherwise I am sure of all my statements.
iThe night before the disaster Mr. Phillips and myself had had a deal of trouble,
owing to the leads from the secondarv of the transformer having burnt through inside
the casing and making contact with certain iron bolts holding the woodwork and
frame tc^ther, thereby earthing the power to a great extent.
After binding these leads with rubber tape, we once more had the apparatus in per-
fect working oraer, but not before we had put in nearly six hours' work, Mr. Phillips
being of the opinion that, in the first place, it was the condensers which had broken,
and these we had had out and examined before locating tlie damage in the transformer.
Owinjj to this trouble, I had promised to relieve Mr. Phillips on the following night
at midnight instead of the usual time, 2 o'clock, as he seemed verv tired.
During Sunday afternoon, toward 5 o'clock, I was called by the Calif omian (call
letters \f W L) with an ice report, but I did not immediately answer, as I was writing
up the abstracts; and also it used to take us some considerable time to start up the
motor and alternator, it not being advisable to leave them working, as the alternator
was liable to run hot.
1, however, acknowledged the receipt of the report when *'M W L" transmitted it
to the Baltic, and took it mvself to the officer nn watch on the bridge.
Neither Mr. Phillips nor t, to my knowledge, received any further ice reports.
About 9 p. m. I turned in , and woke on my own accord just about midnight, relieving
Mr. Phillips, who had just finished sending* a laiige batch of telegrams to Cape Race.
Mr. Phillips told me that apparently we had struck something, as previous to my
tuminut out ne had felt the ship tremble and stop, and expressed an opinion that we
should have to return to Belfast.
40475— PT 12—12 4
H .. ^ ff
1050 TITANIC DISASTER.
I took over the telephone from him, and he was preparing to retire when Capt.
Smith entered the cabin and told us to get assistance immediately.
Mr. Phillips then resumed the phones, after asking the captain if he should use the
regulation distress call '*€ Q D.''
The captain said "Yes," and Mr. Phillips started in with "C Q D," having obtained
the latitude and longitude of the Titanic.
The Frankfurt was the first to answer. We gave him the ship's position, which he
acknowledged by ''OK, stbdi.**
The second answer was from the Carpathian who immediately responded with h»
position and informed us he was coming to our assistance as fast as possible.
These communications I reported myself to the captain, who was, when I found him.
engaged in superintending the filling and lowering of the lifeboats.
The noise of escaping steam directly over our cabin caused a deal of trouble to Mr.
Phillips in reading the replies to our distress call, and this I also reported to Capt.
Smith, who hy some means managed to get it abated.
The Olympic next answered our call, out as far as I know, Mr. Phillips did not go
to much trouble with her, as we now realized the awful state of afitairs, the ship listing
heavily to port and forward.
The captain also came in and told us she was sinking fast and could not last longer
than half an hour.
Mr. Phillips then went outside to see how things were progressing, and meanwhile
I establishea communication with the Baltic^ telling him we were in urgent need uf
assistance.
This I reported to Mr. Phillips on his return, but suggested '^M B C* was too far
away to be of anv use.
Mr. Phillips told me the forward well deck was under water, and we got our lifebelU)
out and tied them on each other, after putting on additional clothing.
Again Mr. Phillips called ''C 9 D " and ''S O S " and for nearly five minutes got do
reply, and then both the Carpathia and the Frankfurt called.
Just at this moment the captain came into the cabin and said, ** You can do nothing;
more; look out for yourselves."
Mr. Phillips again resumed the phones and after listening for a few seconds jumped
up and fairly screamed, "The fool. He says, 'What's up, old man?*' I
asked, "Who?" Mr. Phillips replied the Frankfurt and at that time it seemed per-
fectly clear to us that the Frankfvrt*8 operator had taken no notice or misunderstood
our first call for help.
Mr. Phillips's reply to this was "You fool, stbdi and keep out."
Undoubtedly both Mr. Phillips and I were under a great strain at this time, but
though the committee inquiring into the Jhcts on this side are inclined to censure
that reply, I am still of the opinion that Mr. Phillips was justified in sending it.
Leaving Mr. Phillips operating, I went to our sleeping cabin, and got all our money
together, returning to find a fireman or coal trimmer gently relieving Mr. Phillips of
his life belt.
There immediately followed a general scrimmage with the three of ub.
I regret to say we left too hurriedly in the ena to take the man in question with
lis, and without a doubt he sank with the ship in the Marconi cabin as we left him.
I had up to this time kept the PV entered up, intending when we left the phip
to tear out the lot and each to take a copy, but now we could hear the water washing
over the boat deck, and Mr. Phillips said, "Come, let's clear out."
We had nearly the whole time been in possession of full power from the ship'p
dynamo, though' toward the end the lights sank, and we were ready to stand by with
emergency apparatus and candles, but there was no necessity to use them.
Leaving the cabin, we climbed on top of the houses comprising the officers' quar-
ters and our own, and here I saw the last of Mr. Phillips, for he disappeared walk-
ing aft.
I now assisted in pushing off a collapsible lifeboat, which was on the port side oi
the forward funnel, onto the boat deck. Just as the boat fell I noticed Capt. Smith
dive from the bridge into the sea.
Then followed a general scramble down on the boat deck, but no sooner had we si>t
there than the sea washed over. I managed to catch hold of the boat we had ])re-
viously fixed up and was swept overboard with her.
I then experienced the most exciting three or four hours anyone could reaaonabh
wish for, and was in due course, with the rest of the survivors, picked up by \\\<
Carpathia.
As you have probably heard, I eot on the collapsible boat a second time, which vra.-
as I had left it, upturned. I called Phillips several times, but g^t no response. Kttt
learned later from several sources that he was on tliis boat and expired even liefore vf>
were picked off by the Titanic's boat.
ft ».*^.^**^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 1051
I am told fright and exposure was the cause of his death.
As far as I can find out. he was taken on board the Carpathia and buried at sea from
her. though for some reason the bodies of those who had died were not identified before
burial from the Caryatkia^ and so I can not vouch for the truth of this.
After a short stay in the hospital of the Carpathia I was asked to assist Mr. Cottam,
the operator, who seemed fairly worn out with work.
Hundreds of telegrams from survivors were waiting to go as soon as we could get com-
munication with shore stations.
Regarding the working of the Carpathia.
The list ot survivors, Mr. Cottam told me, had been sent to the MinneuHuka and the
Olympic.
\Mien we established communication with the various coast stations, all of which had
heavy traffic for us, in some cases running into hundreds of messages, we told them
we ^ould only accept service and uigent messages, as we knew Uie remainder would be
press and messages mquiring after some one on the Titanic.
It is easy to see we might nave spent hours receiving messages inquiring after some
survivor, while we had messages waiting from that survivor for transmission.
News was not withheld by Mr. Cottam or myself with the idea of making money,
but because, as far as I know, the captain of the Carpathia was advising Mr. Cottam
to get off the sufvivore' traffic first.
Quite 75 per cent of this we got off.
On arrival in New York Mr. Marconi came on board with a reporter of the New York
Times. Also Mr. Sanunis was present, and 1 received $500 for my story, which both
Mr. Marconi and Mr. Sammis authorized me to tell.
I have forgotten to mention that the United States Government sent out a ship, as
they said, to assist us named the Chester.
Several messages passed between the commander of that vessel and the Carpathia^
and resulted in the captain telling us to transmit the names of the third-class pas-
sengers to the Chester.
Though it has since been reported that the most expert operator in the United States
Navy was on board the Chester ^ I had to repeat these names, nearly 300 in all, several
times to him. taking up nearly a couple of hours of valuable time, though I sent them
in the first place slowly and carefully.
I am now staying with relatives and waiting orders from the Marconi Co. here, who
have been most considerate and kind, buying me much needed clothes and looking
after me generally.
I am glad to say I can now walk around, the sprain in my left foot being much better,
though my right foot remains nuihbed from the exposure and cold, but causes me no
pain or inconvenience whatever.
I greatly appreciate the cable the company so kindly sent me and thank them for
the same.
Trusting this report will be satisfactory until my return to England, I beg to remain.
Yours, obediently,
Harold S. Bride.
Mr. Bride. I should like to have the letter back, Senator. That
is my personal copy.
Senator Smith. Certainly. I shall return it to you.
That is all, Mr. Bride. We are very much obliged to you for
coming again to-day.
TESTIMOHT OF MB. BEBK PICKABB.
[Before Senator William Alden Smith, at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Sbhth. State your name/ age, residence, and occupation.
Mr. PiCKARD. Berk Pickard; No. 229, Hebrew Immigrant Society.
At the time I took passage on the Titanic I came from London. I
am 32 years old. I am a leather worker; a bag maker. . I was born
in Russia, in Warsaw. My name was Berk Trembisky. I was for a
long time in Prance and I assumed a French name. As regards pri-
vate business, I am Pickard.
a »*-..^*^ 9f
1052 TITANIC DISASTER.
I was one of the third-class passengers on the Titanic. My cabin
was No. 10 in the steerage, at tne stem. I first knew of the collision
when it happened, about 10 minutes to 12. We had all been asleep,
and all of a sudden we perceived a shock. We did not hear such a
very terrible shock, but we knew something was wrong, and we
jumped out of bed and we dressed ourselves and went out, and we
could not get back again. I wanted to go back to get my things but
I could not. The stewards would not allow us to go back. They
made us all go forward on the deck. There were no doors locked to
frevent us from going back. I did not take much notice of it, and
went to the deck. The other passengers started in arguing. One
said that it was dangerous and the other said that it was not; one
said white and the other said black. Instead of arguing with those
people, I instantly went to the highest spot.
I said to myseli that if the ship had to sink, I should be one of the
last. That was my first idea, which was the best. I went and I found
the door. There are always a few steps from this third class, with a
moveable door, and it is marked there that second-class passengers
have no right to penetrate there. I found this door open so that I
could go into the second class, where I did not find manv people,
only a few that climbed on the ladder and went into the first class,
which I did. I found there only a few men and about two ladies.
They had been putting them into lifeboats and as no women were
there, we men sprang in the boat. We had only one woman and
another younggirl. There were two women. They stood iust in
front of me. yfe were lowered down, and when I was lowered down
I saw the whole ship, as big as she was, the right side a little bit sink-
iog, and I was far from imagining that it was the beginning of the end.
mien I was going away from the ship, of course I was rather fright-
tened; I was sorry at not being on the ship, and I said to the seaman,
*'I would rather be on the smp." He was laughing at me, and he
said, ^'Do ^ou not see we are sinking?'' I was rather excited, and
I said, **It is fortunate that now the sea is nice, but perhaps in five
minutes we will be turned over." So I was in the boat until 5 o'clock
in the morning.
In regard to the ship, I saw the ship very quickly started sinking,
and one rail went under and then another, until in a half an hour,
from my point of view, the ship sank altogether.
The steerage passengers, so lar as I could see, were not prevented
from getting up to the upper decks by anybody, or by closed tloon;,
or anything else. While 1 w^as on the ship no one realized the real
danger, not even the stewards. If the stewards knew, they were
calm. It was their duty to try to make us believe there was nothing
serious. Nobody was prevented from ^oing up. They tried to keep
us quiet. They said, * Nothing serious is the matter." Perhaps they
did not know themselves. I did not realize it, the whole time, even
to the last moment. Of course, I would never believe such a thing
could happen.
The Uteboat I got into was an ordinary lifeboat. I do not know
what number it was; I am sorry to say I did not look at it. There
was some seaman in charge of it, who belonged to the ship. What
kind of employment the seamen were in I do not know, but they
belonged to the ship.
4 i . « f t
TITANIC DISASTER. 1053
The only warning given to the steerage passengers after the col-
lision was that we were ordered to take our life belts and go to the
deck. There was no water in the steerage when I left.
That is all I know about it. I was one of the first to go. Of course,
if I had stayed until a little bit later, I would have seen a little bit
more. I was one of the luckiest ones, I think.
Witness excused.
TESTIMOITT OF MB. GUBEBT WILLIAM BALF0T7B.
[Before Senator William Alden Smith at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.]
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Will you state your name, residence, and occu-
pation ?
Mr. Balfour. Gilbert William Balfour; Stony Croft, Liverpool:
I am an inspector of the Marconi Co. I have been in the emplov of
that company three years last October; that is, practically tnree
y^ears and a half, now.
Senator Smith. In that position are you going about from station
to station of the Marconi Co. ?
Mr. Balfour. I am what we call a traveling inspector; I do shore
duty, and I am sent to fit out ships at any place where that service
is required. TraveUng inspectors at times take charge of inspec-
tions. We are attached to particular ships. For instance, I am now
attached to the Baltic. It is a part of our duty to fit up stations and
to control traffic on the ocean.
Senator Smith. Where were you on the 14th and 15th of April,
1912; that is, Sunday and Monday?
Mr. Balfour. We were just 243 miles southeast of the position of
the Titanic when we first got her C. Q. D. call, about 11 o'clock, New
York time, Sunday evening. We got the C. Q. D. call, giving his
position, just saying "Struck an iceberg,** giving his present position,
and saying that he required immediate assistance. We did not
acknowledge it direct then, but simply warned the bridge in the usual
course; the ship turned around, and we took the first opportunity,
which was a couple of minutes later, or it may have been nve minutes
later, to advise the Titanic that we were coming.
The next we heard from her was about 10 minutes later. I have
hore an extract from my book giving everything chronologically, just
as the operator on the Califomian did. These times are taken from
our ship s clock, and we subsequently found that my clock is fast.
As near as we can come to the fixed time, it was less than 1 1 o'clock.
We received this message at 11 o'clock, New York time. We work
always on New York time. We received a message saying the
Titanic had struck an iceberg, and required immediate assistance,
giving us her position, 41° 46' north, 50° 14' west. That message
\^as sent immediately to the bridge, with instruction to call the
officer of the watch immediately. Capt. Ranson, so far as I know,
was immediatelv called out, and about 11.08 or 11.09 the officer came
down from the bridge, in the usual course, to verify the position, and
to see if I had got any additional information.
a ..»».«««^ 9>
1054 TITANIC DISASTER,
At 11.10 we heard a C, Q. message coming from the Titanic — that
is, a message sent to all stations — saying, '^Capt. Smith says, 'Get
all your boats ready. Sinking.'"
I brought all the papers, in case you might want them. This is
really the log that I have here. This is an exact copy of the 1<^ that
I have made for the board of trade.
Senator Smith. I think we had better have a copy of that.
Mr. Balfour. The times given here are times by the clock, but
fou can accept these times as approximate times, if you wish to.
think I had better start to read this again. I am reading from the
log:
11.10 p. m. — ^Jamming bad, but hear TiianiCy very faint, calling Olympie. Latter
strong; ireaky. Hear Varonia calling. He telle me Titanic requires immediate
assistance.
Senator Smith. Do you know where the Caronia was at that time \
Mr. Balfoub. Yes; she was perhaps 600 miles farther east than
we were. [Continuing reading:]
He tells me Titanic requires immediate assistance. Gives position as 41 d^jet^
46 minutes north; 50 degrees 40 minutes west. I advise bridge and call Titanic, but
am unable to gain his attention. He appears to be tuned to the Olympic, and cut.<
me out.
Then comes this. At 11.20 was that message to the bridge, *^ Cap-
tain Smith says *Get all your boats out. We are sinking.
11.35. — TYtantc sends C. Q.'message, '*We are getting the women off in small boats."
I advised Titanic we are coming to his rescue — coming to his
** assistance," is what I said.
Caronia repeated my message to him, which was acknowledged by
Phillips, of the Titanic.
The next message we received from him was about 11.45, a C. Q.
message, saying ** Engine room getting flooded." That message wa.s
sent twice, and at the end of the second message, in the middle of the
word '* flooded," his motor ran down. That was probably, I sup-
pose, when the water rose to the dynamo in the engine room. After
that we simply stood by, listening to all messages.
12.10 a. m. — that is, Mondav, April 15 — I had signals with the
America and with the Prim Priedricli 'Wilhelm, and told them to
stand by. They called up after taking the long distance, and of
course we had to tell them to stand by, to give us a chance of gettincf
at the Titanic,
At 1 .05 the Virginian was calling the Titanic and the Olumvi^.
At 2.10 the Pnnz Friedrich WUhelm called C. Q. I told him to
stand by on phones for C. Q. D. call, and not touch the key.
At 3.05 the station at Eastport, Me., call letters W. Q., was asking
the Frankfurt in re G. Q. D. calls. This station had been jamming
all the night. Jamming is a term we use to indicate intenerences :
trying to get in; trying to get the way through.
They were talking about things not really having to do with the
rescue.
Senator Smith. How far was Eastport, Me., from you ?
Mr. Balfour. I could not exactly say. It is on the Bay of Fundy.
It is a very far and it is a very freaky station. You can hear it alrao'^t
half way cross the ocean.
At 3.05, as I say, the station at Eastport, Me., asked the Frankfurt
in re C. Q. D. calls.
<i ,«*^. ^,,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 1055
At 5.05 we had the first signals with the Carpathia, but were unable
to work him, owing to persistent jamming bv the CcUifamiany who was
talking all the while. That was 5.05, New Vork time. We would be,
then, somewhere about 130 miles awav from the field of the Titanic
disaster.
Senator Smith. Do you know how far away the Califomian was ?
Mr. Balfoub. Yes; I read about it in the papers.
Senator Smith. She was within 15 miles.
Mr. Balfoub. I wish we had been there. We would have had
those people.
At 5.30 the Califomian was persisting in talking to the steamship
Birma. It was impossible for us to work.
At 5.45 a. m. the AntiUian called C. Q. She was told to stand by.
V, Q. is the general call for all stations. C. Q. D. was the old call for
danger. C. Q. is the general call, and every station which hears that
call must reply; to it.
At 6.55 we signaled the Carpathiaj but could no nothing for jam-
ming by the Ciuifomian and tne Birma.
At 7.10 a. m.y in communication with Carpatkia. Exchange traffic in re passengers,
and get instructions to proceed to Liverpool. We turn around at 7.15 a. m. We have
come west 134 miles.
That was in the direction of the Titanic. We had come back 134
miles.
I saw some reports, Senator, about the messages from the Car-
jmthia. Perhaps you would like to have those.
Senator Smith. I would, and the hour when each was sent, and to
whom it was addressed.
Mr. Balfour. About 6.30 a. m. we got an unofficial message from
the Carpatkia to the Baltic:
The Titanic has sqne down with all hands, as far as we know, with the exception of
20 boatloads, which we have picked up. Number not accurately fixed yet. We can
not see any more boats about at all.
That was just sent from tlie operator of the Carpatkia to the captain
of the Baltic. That went to Captain Ranson.
In reply, the captain sent that message :
Can I be of any assistance to you as regards taking some of the passengers from you?
Will be in the position about 4.30. Let me know if you alter your position.
Commander Baltic.
At 7.10 we received a message from the Carpatkia, from the captain
of the Carpatkia to the captain of the Baltic:
Am prfKeeding for Halifax or New York, full speed. You had better proceed to
Liverpool. Have about 800 passengers aboard.
That was the last communication we had with the Carpatkia^ but
the Califomian and the Birma were talking throughout the morning
up to, practically, 1 o'clock. At that time we were out of touch with
the CarpatJiia and the other ships around there.
Senator Smith. When that message was received from the Car-
pathia at 6.30, how far were you from the Carpatkia?
Mr. Balfour. About 124 miles.
Senator Smith. What did you do with the information that you
got in that message ?
Mr. Balfour. That was sent to the commander, Capt. Ranson.
Senator Smith. What was done with it ?
it ff
1056 TITANIC DISASTER.
Mr. Balfour. It was kept in his room.
Senator Smith. Was it sent to any shore station ?
Mr. Balfour. No.
Senator Smith. Or to any other aliip ?
Mr. Balfoltr. No, sir; we never communciated with any shore
station or any ship until we got into Crook Haven, advising about
his return.
Senator Smith. Did you get at any time, over your instrument,
that message [handing witness telegram dated Apnl 17, 1912, read-
ing: ''Deeply regret advise you Titanic sank this morning after col-
lision iceberg, resulting serious loss life. Further particulais later.
Bruce Ismay"]?
Mr. Balfour (after examining telegram). No; I did not hear that
at all.
Senator Smith. Did you express any desire to communicate the
message conveying the fate of the Titanicy and the number of those
saved, to any other ship or station ?
Mr. Balfolti. No; we refused all information to all ships.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. Balfour. We were not directly interested in the Titanic , and
it is against the regulations to give that information. Another
thing, it is very undesirable to give the information to all the ships
commg along.
Senator Smith. Why ?
Mr. Balfolti. There is no use giving it to strange ships. It would
be of no use to them.
Senator Smith. What would you have done if you had been on the
Carpathia, with, this information that was so much desired by the
people of the whole world ?
Mr. Balfour. I should have advised the Marconi Co. officially in
New York, as we are supposed by the special regulations of the com-
pany to do — to advise them — and they will give it out to the press.
Senator Smith. If it had been impossible for you to have reached
a coast station, would you have sent it to other sliips which were
west of the Carpaihia and nearer to coast stations ?
Mr. Balfour. Most certainly I should have done it.
Senator Smith. It would have been perfectly practical and could
have been done under the rules, to have given that to the CaXifomian?
Mr. Balfour. Every Marconi station is supposed to assist in
relaying the traffic of other ships.
Senator Smith. How can you account for the failure of the Car-
paihia operator to do that ?
Mr. Balfour. I could not account for it, unless perhaps he lost
his head a bit.
Senator Smith. Such information as this you would regard as
pubUc information of the liighest character?
Mr. Balfour. Absolutely; the same as at the time of the Republic
disaster we took the first opportunity of advising the land of what
had happened.
Senator Smith. You could with certainty have communicated that
6.30 message regarding the fate of the Titanic?
Mr. Balfour. Yes; but we were not in touch with the land.
(( «— . *^»« >f
TITANIC DISASTER. ^ 1057
Senator Smith. Coasidering the fact that you had a powerful ap-
Karatus, it seems to me that would have been the natural thing to
ave done.
Mr. Balfour. No; we could not do it. We could not communicate
with the land at all. We had lost the land. Our range is only about
250 miles during the day, and we were something like 600 miles away
from Cape Race.
Senator Smith. So that you would have been obliged to relay it ?
Mr. Balfour. Yes, absolutely. Then, of course, the Carpathia
being the ship mostly concerned, and she going westward to New
York, being in touch with the Olympicy the natural thing for her to
do would be to relay her stuff to the Olympic^ and for that ship to
relay it to the land. If we had undertaken to communicate with
Cape Race, we would have been meddling, possiblv, with the more
important communication of the Carpathia with tne Olympic, with
the actual statement of the people. We only had this general state-
ment to go on.
The regulations under which we work distinctly state as follows:
AVOIDANCE OF INTERFERENCK.
8. Another general obligation which is imposed on all stations alike, and which is
regarded as of the highest importance, is that they shall interfere as little as possible
with the working of other stations. The rules of working are largely designee! to pre-
vent such interference.
Then we come to this other rule, under the head of ''Distress
signal," which reads as follows:
id) Failing any mention of a particular station in the signal of distress, any station
which receives the call is Iwund to answer it.
In doing this ships must beware of interfering with each other, and not more than
one ship should answer if it is found that confusion results. A ship which knows
from the strength of the signals of distress that she is near the ship requiring assistance
should take precedence in answering and taking the necessary steps with regard to the
distress signal.
That is the regulation. Therefore, under that regulation, as I had
no definite information to give, the next best thing was to stand by.
Senator Smith. Do you know of the practice or custom that has
grown up among wireless operators of monopolizing and selling the
information which they have by reason of wieir position, for their
own advantage ?
Mr. Balfour. Yes; I have heard of it and I very much resent it,
because it is a distinct infringement of their oath of secrecy.
Senator Smith. And it is bad morals, as well ?
Mr. Balfoub. It is bad morals for the service; and, as far as I am
personally concerned, I do not think it is the right thing.
Before I came into the Marconi service I was for 15 years in the
British post office telegraph service, and I consider that the selling of
information is a violation of the oath of secrecy. It most certainly
is, according to the law.
At the time of the Republic disaster, the only message we sent
ashore was by the authority and with the full permission of the
commander of the Baltic, C'apt. Ranson. We were offered from
one to five dollars per word if we would send an exclusive story
ashore. Even after receiving permission from the shore to send it,
we would not do so without the authority of the captain. That is
the strict regulation. No Marconi operator is supposed to send
H ^ ft
1058 - TITANIC DISASTER.
anything ashore referring to the ship, or anything Uke that, without
the permission of his commander.
Senator Smith. I suppose that is done, notwithstanding the in-
junction ?
Mr. Balfoub. I am afraid it is. What I have stated has been
the principle on which I have acted throughout. I have been
fightmg for the position of the Marconi operators. We have got a
very tough fight on with the shipping officials, and I believe you can
not put up a proper fight unless you have your hands absolutely
clean. We have a very, very, uphill fight. 1 do not suppose any-
anybody has had any more experience m the telegraph service than
I have, and I rather resent this thing of being put down as a junior
or petty officer on the ship. You can not possibly have the confi-
dence of your captain if you are going to do things behind his back.
Senator Smith. Looking at the message which you hold in your
hand, signed by Bruce fimay, addressed to Islerrank, New Ifork
City, containing a formal statement of the sinking of the Titanic and
the great loss of life, and with the information which I give you,
that Mr. Ismay, said under oath, that he had delivered that message
to the operator on the Carpathia between 4 and 5 o'clock Monday
morning, the 15th day of April, how can you account for its failure
to reach Halifax untu nearly three days thereafter?
. Mr. Balfour. It should have been sent through the quickest
means to Cape Race, which would have been, probably, the Calir
fomian, or some other steamer west of the Carpaihia, Frobably the
message was carried forward by some ship losing touch with Cape
Race, and sent ashore at Sable Island, That was the only way it
could get through^ to Halifax, or it might have been held by the t^ar-
jHitJiia^s operator until he got in touch with Sable Island. That was
quite feasible, and quite probable.
Senator Smith. But not very thoughtful ?
Mr. Balfour. Not very thoughtful; certainly not.
Senator Smith. Did you receive any message from Capt. Smith,
of the Titanic, during her voyage, other than the ones you have
described ?
Mr. Balfour. Yes; we received a message from Capt. Smith in
answer to our message sent about 11.50. The reply from the Titanic
was received about 11.50 a. m.
Senator Smith. On what day ?
Mr. Balfour. On Sunday, the 14th. These messages read as
follows :
S. S. ** Baltic,*' Apr, 14, 1912.
Capt. Smith, Titanic:
Have had moderate variable winds and clear fine weather since leaving. Greek
steamer Atfiinai reports passing icebergs and larce quantity of field ice to-day in lati-
tude 41 .51 north, longitude 49.52 west. I^ast nignt yre spoke German oil tank DeuUch-
land, Stettin to Philadelphia, not under control; rfiort of coal; latitude 40.42 north,
longitude 55.11. Wishes to be reported to New York and other steamers. Wish yon
and Titanic all success.
Commander.
Capt. Smith's reply, received at 12.55 p. m. on the 14th of April,
reads as follows:
April 14, 1912.
S. S. ** Titanic" to Commander, "Baltic.**
Thanks for your message and good wishes. Had fine weather since leaving.
Smith.
H — -..^••^ 9f
TITANIC DISASTER. 105ft
Senator Smith. Did you get any other messi^es from him %
Mr. Balfour. No. We gave him the unofficial ice report at the
same time as we sent the original message, simply verifying the ice
report that we got from the Prim Friearich WiUidm and from the
Amerika, I heard those ice reports goin^ to him from the Prim
Friedrich WUhelm and the Amerika, and I just verified their position
with him unofiicially.
Seoiator Smith. What time was it you sent that ?
Mr. Balfour. That would be about 10.30 a. m., on the 14th,
Sunday.
Senator Smith. What was the position of the Amerika at that
time, do you remember?
Mr. Balfour. About 40 miles ahead of us.
Senator Smith. Going the same way ?
Mr. Balfour. Going east. The Pnm Friedrich WUhelm was about
40 or 50 miles ahead of her, going in the same direction.
Senator Smith. Did you hear anything that you now recall from
the Mount Tem/ple?
Mr. Balfour. No; we never had the Mount Temple at all. She
was too far away.
Senator Smith. Four very important things occurred that night
which I want you to know, as an experienced wireless operator:
1. The first ship to respond to the C. Q. I), call of the Titanic was
the Frankfurt, which did not give its position.
2. The next thing is that Cottam accidentally caught that C. Q. D.
call from the Titanic as he was undressing for bed, and in five minutes
more he would have had the instrument off his head.
3. Third is the belated inquiry from the Frankfurt, 20 minutes after
the C. Q. D. call had been received, asking '* What is the matter V and
there was the rejoinder of the Titanic^s operator, who did not know
the position of the Frankfurt, ** You are a fool. Keep out.^*
4. The fourth thing is the fact that when the Califomian called
the Titanic to tell her of her proximity to ice, Bride was figuring his
accounts and held the message off for 30 minutes.
Can you think of anything else that will throw any light upon this
inquiry '?
ifr. Balfour. No; I can not. I would like, myself, to find out
where those messages originated, and the only thing I can suggest
about finding out about those messages is to get the copies from the
cable companies and trace them in that way.
Witness excused.
The memorandum referred to and read from by Mr. Balfour in
giving his testimony is here printed in full, as follows:
[Extract of P. V. book Marconi ofHoe, steamship BaUic, Apr. 14, 1912.]
Sunday, April 14, 19U.
10.45 p. m. — ('ailing Titanic; no respnnso.
11.10 p. in. — Jambinc; bad, but hear Titanic very faint, callinj^ Oli/m pic —laiter
.•'tron^; freaky. Hear Caronia railing. He tella me Titanic reciuires immediate
aHHistance; gives positicm.
41.16 N., 50.14 W. — I advise bridge and call Titanic, but unable to gain bin atten-
tion. He appears to be tuned U) Olympic and cuts me out.
11.35 p. m. — Titanic tells Olympic, "We are getting the women off in small boat,s."
Tells Titanic, **Baltic coming to awistanre." Car.jnia, I don't appear to reach him.
11.45 p. m. — Titanic atiys, "Engine r(M>m getting fl(H>ded.*'
1060 TITANIC WSASTEB,
Monday, April IS, 191^.
Message from bridge gives our position 243 miles east of Titanic.
12.10 a. m. — Signals Amerika and Prim Fredk. WUhelm.
1.05 a. m. — Virf/inian now calling Titanic and Olympic.
2.10 a. m.—Prtm Fredk. WUhelm calls C. Q. I tell him stand by on phones and
not call.
3.05 a. m.— Eastport, Me. (station on Bay of Fundy) asks Frankfurt re C. Q. D.
calls (he was jambmg me at 11.05 p. m.).
5.05 a. m. — Sisals Carpalhia. Unable to work owing to persistent jambing by
Calif omian^ who is talking all the time.
5.30 a. m. — Califomian persists in talking to steamship Birma such remarks a^p
'' Do you see a four-master salmon, pink smoke-stack, steamer around/' etc. Imp(>$»-
sibie for us to work.
5.45 a. m. — Antillian calls C. Q. Told to stand by.
6.55. — Signals Carpathviy but can do nothing for jambing by Calif omian and Birma,
who arc carrying on lon^, irrevelant conversations.
7.10. — In communication with Carpalhia; exchange traffic re passcngere and get in-
structions to proceed Liverpool. We turn round at 7.15 a. m. We luive come west
134 miles.
9.10.— Signals "United States."
9.20. — Two from Vir^nian,
10.15. — Signals Virginian said Antillian.
10.30. — Califomian still monopolizing the air with his remarks. Carrying on con-
versations with every station. Carpathta is trying to send me a message but conununi-
cation is out of the question owing to Calif omvan.
11. — Still impossible to work Carpathia owing ^ Califomian and Prim Adalbert,
Noon. — By on phones trying for Carpathia.
12.50. — Signals Bohemian.
1.00.— Balfour of!.
GiLBBBT W. Balfour,
Officer in charge^ Marconi Telegraphs^ SUxsTnship ** Baltic.'
f >
(Copies of messages sent anjd received with referenoe to the TiisiiJc.]
Apbil 14, 1912.
11.10 p. m. — Uigent message sent to bridge, '* Titanic struck beig — position 41 :46 N.
50 : 14 . w an ts immediate assistance . ' '
11.20.— S(»nt to bridge, "Capt. Smith says *Get all your boats ready, sinking.'"
(Received direct from Titanic.)
11.35. — Titanic sends C. Q. : "We are getting the women off in small boats.'*
11.45. — Titanic sends C. Q.: "Engine room getting flooded.'*
11.50. — From Baltic to Titanic: "Capt. Smith, Titanic^BcUtic coming; we are 243
miles east."
7.07 a. m. — From Baltic to captain, Carpathia: "Can I be of any assistance to you
as regards taking some of the passengers from you. Will be in the position about 4.30.
Let me know if you alter your position.'*
Commander "Baltic."
7.10 a. m. — From captain Carpalhia to captain Baltic: "Am proceeding for Halifax
or New York full speed. You had better proceed to Liverpiool. Have about 800
passengers aboard . ' '
Gilbert W. Balpoub, care Marconi.
" TIT^A^IsnO " IDIS^A^STEIl
HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIREGTINQ THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 13
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE
1918
BUBCOMMITTBE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unitbd States Sbnatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, MlddgMi, Chairman,
•OEOROE C. PERKINS, CaUfomia. F. M. SIMMONS, North CaroUna.
JONATHAN BOUI^NE, Jr., Oregon. FRANCIS G. NEWLANDS, Nevada.
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida.
W. M. McKmsTBT, CUrk.
n
LIST OF WITNESSES.
Fourteenth day: Pass*
Douglas, Mahala D. (affidavit of) 1098
FaireU, Maurice L., managing editor Wall Street Journal (testimony of). . . 1061
Farrell, Maurice L. (statement of ) 1093
Franklin, P. A. S. (telegrams to and from) 1093
Hosey, James A. (s^davit of) 1094
Lowe, H. G. (statement of) 1096
Quitziau, Dr. F. C. (affidavit of) 1094
Weikman, A. H. (affidavit of) 1095
Fifteenth day:
Campbell, Benjamin f tele^ms from P. A. S. Franklin) 1100
Campbell, Benjamin (testimony of) 1099
FranKlin, P. A. S. (letter to B. Campbell, vice president New York, New
Haven & Hartford R. R. Co.) 1102
Minahan, Daisy (letter from) 1105
Minahan, Daisy (affidavit of) : 1104
Ryerson, Mrs. K. B. (affidavitof) 1102
Sixteenth dav:
Cone, Admiral H. I., Engineer in Chief United States Navy (memorandum
from) 1116
Knapp, Capt. John J., United States Navy, hydrographer. Bureau of Navi-
gation (testimony of) 1106
Knapp, Capt. John J., United States Navy (memorandum from) 1113
Smitti, George Otis, Director United States Geological Survey (letter from). 1119
in
"TITANIC" DISASTER.
THXraSDAY, MAY 9, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate,
Washingtonj D. C.
[Testimony taken before Senator \Vi Ilium Alden Smith, chnlrman of the sub-
committee, sitting separately.]
TESTIMOHY OF MB. KATTBICE L. FARBELL.
The witness was sworn by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Give your full name to the reporter.
Mr. Farrell. Maurice L. Farrell.
Senator Smith. Where do vou reside?
Mr. Farrell. In New York Citv.
Senator Smith. What is your business?
Mr. Farrell. I am managing news editor of Dow, Jcnes & Co.
Senator Smith. How old are you?
Mr. Farrell. Thirty-five.
Senator Smith. How long have vou been connected with Dow,
Jones & Co. ?
Mr. Farrell. Since March 1, 1912.
Senator Smith. In your capacity as managing editor, what are
your duties?
Mr. Farrell. I have general supervision of the operations of the
news agency and the Wall Street Journal, which we publish.
Senator Sbiith. Your duties throw you in personal contact with
your reporters?
Mr. Farrell. In direct, personal contact.
Senator Smith. And thev work under vour direction and au-
thority?
Mr. Farrell. Exactly. Senator, if I may be permitted to offer a
suggestion, I have prepared a brief statement, which, with your per-
mission, I would liKe to read into the record, and which I tnink will
save time and establish the facts.
Senator Smith. I will give you an opportunity to do so, but I
want to direct your attention specifically to two things.
In your bulletin, or ticker original — is that the proper expressii n i
Mr! Farrell. Tes.
Senator Smith. At 9.33 a. m. Monday morning, April 15, you say :
Mr. Fruulkliu hmIcI lie had ret-eived a brief wirelenH disptach from the 0///m-
piCf saying she had talked by wireless with the TitaMo at 4.24 o'clock this
morning. The message gave no further information, Mr. Franklin said.
The message shows conclnsively that the Titanic was still afloat six hours
after the reported accident.
1061
1062 TITANIC DISASTER.
Then you give the names of the officers of the Titanic:.
I desire to ask from whom you obtained that information?
Mr. Farrell. I do not find that we published such a statement ad
that, Senator ; at least, not at that time : I have here a full record
of the tape from the beginning of business to the end of the day, and
that does not appear.
Senator Smith. That is what is called Local "A"-25 for identifi-
cation. Does that help you any?
Mr. Farrell. No j it does not.
Senator Smith. 1 will proceed a little further. From your bul-
letin Local " A"-3, headed " Bulletin," I read as follows :
New York, April 15.
(Add TitatUc) — A dispatch received here from Halifax, N. S., this morning
rei)or s that all the passengers of the Titanic had left the steamship after 3.30
o'clock this morning.
(Biijletin will stand.)
CSB. DR. 9.33 a. m.
Following that on your original memoranda appears the follow-
ing:
Titanic — ^A dispatch from Halifax reports that all passengers had left the
Titanic in boats shortly after 3.30 this morning.
Have you that?
Mr. Farrell. We published that dispatch on our ticker at 8.58 on
the morning of April 15. We received it from the Boston News
Bureau, our Boston correspondent.
Senator Smith. Did you make any attempt to verify that state-
ment at the White Star Line offices or through Mr. Franklin per-
sonally ?
Mr. Farrell. We did.
Senator Smith. With what results?
Mr. Farrell. Prior to that we had received from the White Star
offices a statement somewhat similar.
Senator Smith. Have you got it there ?
Mr. Farrell. I have; and with your permission I will read it
Senator Smith. Please do so.
Mr. Farrell. This was published at our tickers at 8.35, or there-
abouts. It was obtained by' Mr. Gingold, one our our reporters, who
is now in London. He went to I^ndon on a vacation very shortly
after that. I will read the statement as it appeared on our tickers,
headed " Titaruey It reads :
Officers of White Star Line stated nt 8 o'clock this inoming that passengers
on the Titanic were being talcen oCf In bonts and that there was no daager
of loss of life. The Baltic and the Iw-j/iwian, they stuted, were stand ing by to
afi'sist in the rescue worlv.
Senator Smith. Is that the end of that ?
Mr. Farrell. Then there are two more items running along on
the same story :
On Titanic there were 300 first class, 320 second class, 800 third class pas-
sengers, and a crew of 900 men.
It is not yet known whether the vessel will be ssived. White Star people are
in something of a quandary if she shonid be saved, as it is said there is no dry
dock on this side of the Atlantic to take care of her.
Senator Smith. From whom was that information received?
it ..*•.. «»«^ 99
TITAKIO PIBASTEB. 1068
Mr. Fabbell. That was received at the White Star offices from
some of the junior officials. Mr. Franklin had not yet arrived at
the office.
Senator Smith. Can you give me the name of your informant?
Mr. Fabbeli.. No, sir; I can not. Let me explain the relation of
this. This was early in the morning. The early newspaper accounts
had been published. There was a great crowd, and there was great
excitement at the White Star offices. Dozens of newspaper men and
also the relatives of passengers on the Titanic were all clamoring for
information. In response to questions, this was the information
given out by some of the representatives of the White Star line*
This particular information was not given by Mr. Franklin.
Senator Smith. Did you make any attempt to verify it?
Mr. Fabbell. Yes; we made every attempt we could.
Senator Smith. What did you do?
Mr. Fabbell. Then, subsequent to that, came the dispatch from
Boston which you have just mentioned :
A dispatch from Haliftix reimrts that nil imsften^^erR had left the Titanio In
boats diortly after 3.30 this morning.
Senator Smith. Did you regard that as confirmatory i ^ >
Mr. Fabbell. We did.
« Senator Smith. Did you talk with Mr. Franklin later in the day
about the information you had gotten from his office at the time just
referred to?
Mr. Fabrell. We had reporters at the White Star offices all day
long seeking information from Mr. Franklin and other officials, and
theT)ulk of the news we published came from the White Star offices.
Senator Smith. Did it come from Mr. Franklin?
Mr. Fabbell. Most of it from Mr. Franklin ; some of it from some
of his subordinates.
Senator Smith. I call your attention to a bulletin which we will
designate as No. 3, 9.43 a. m., April 15 [reading} :
Montreal, AprU 15,
The Montreal Star to-dny snys that an unofficial dispatch from llalifiix
stated that word had been received there that the Titanic waR Btill afloat and
was making her way slowly toward Halifax.
(Hulletin will stand.)
— ci) — aa — ck — ^9.43 a. m.
Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir; I do not find such a dispatcli in our record
here on our ticker tape. If the stenographer will note it, I will sub-
sequently go over the bulletins.
Senator Smith. I am quoting from the bulletins.
Mr. Farrell. From the bulletins?
Senator Smith. Yes. That was from a bulletin. Have you got
them numbered?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. What is that one you are l(K)king at ?
Mr. Farrell. This is No. 20. Is vour memorandum numbered?
Senator Smith. My memorandum starts with No. 1. What I have
just read was from No. 3.
Mr. Farrell. We printed nothing about the Titanir on bulletin
No. 1. We printed nothing on bulletin No. 3
Senator Smith. Perhaps you will find under this Montreal date
(his dispatch which I have just read.
1064 TITANIC DI8ASTEK.
Mr. Farrell. No, sir ; I do not find that
Senator Smith. Do you find at 9.53 a. m. an optimistic statement
by Mr. Franklin in which he said, as will be seen on page 2, which
I have already quoted :
The Olympic has Just been reported ub huviug been iu direct coiuuiuuieatiou
by wireless with the Titanic.
Mr. Fabrell. No; I do not find that either. Senator. Are yen
sure you have not sot our bulletins confused with some one else's.
Senator S^iith. No; I wanted to know about these two things. I
have here your original memorandum, from which I will now read :
Titanif^ — Di8i»atch from Moiitreul received by White Star officlHls wiys
Titanic wns afloat at 8.30. and that women and children had not yet been taken
off, though lifeboats were rejuly in c|ise of emergency.
The steamship is hoadhiK in dire<'tlon of Halifax, from which the Virffinian
is apia-oaehhiK. It iK thouf^ht that buUiheads will prevent sblp from Kiiikins;.
Titanic is moving; under her own engines.
This is dated 11.03 a. m., Monday, April 15.
Mr. Farrell. I think I recall such a dispatch as that.
Senator Smith. This is your original note, I think.
Mr. Farrell. That is ours, yes; that is our tape.
Senator Smith. 1 would like to ask where von got that informa-
tion ?
Mr. Farrell. I will tell you in just a moment. [After examining
papers. J That previous one which you read was as follows :
White .Star oliicinls reiKirt Olympic was in commnnication with Titanic at
8.34 this morning, and Titanic was still afloat.
I find that on the record here. I received that from the Boston
News Service.
Senator SMrrn. Referring to the Montreal dispatch which I just
read, where did vou get that information ?
Mr. Farrell (reading) :
Dispatch from Montreal received by White Star otfielals siiys Titanic was
afloat at 8.30 and that women nnd children had not yet been taken off, thoui;b
lifeboats were rendy in case of emergency.
The steamshli» is heading; in direction of Halifax, from which the Virgindnn
is approaching. It is thonght that bnlkhe>ids will prevent ship from sinking.
Titanii' is moving under her own engines.
We received that from Mr. Franklin. Mr. Byrne, one of our re-
porters, got that from Mr. Franklin.
Senator Smith. At the time indicated?
Mr. Farrell. Approximately ; yes. Of coui'se all these were rush
stuff. It was telephoned into the oifice and slapped on the ticker as
quickly as possible. We published it about 10.45.
Senator Smith. Monday morning?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. April 15?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. I now call your attention to a bulletin of Monday,
April 15. I am now reading from your original. It reads as fol-
lows:
10.49 a. ni. — Titanic. — Montreal. — Wiivless uiessaKe receiver! 10 o*ekK'k this
morning said that two vessels were standing by Titanic and that the hlg ves-
sel* s passengers had been taken off.
i( «-,^.« ^ ff
TITANIC DISASTER. 1065
Mr. Farrell. That was published on our ticker tape; time, 10.49.
W'e received it from the Laffan News Bureau, New York.
Senator Smith. Have you in your bulletin of April 15, at 12.07
p. m., the following:
MoNTRKAL, Aprii /J.
The local office of Horton Davidson, one of the Titanic pHHseriKern, has re-
ceived the following wireless message:
"All passengers are safe and Titanic taken in tow by the Vif'ifininn/'
Mr. Farrell. What time was that, Senator Smith?
Senator Smith. 12.07 p. m.
Mr. Farrell. No, sir; we have no dispatch on our ticker tape of
that character at that time. At 12.12 we published this:
Wireless says Titanic is under way and proceeding to New York.
Senator Smith. From whom did you receive that message?
Mr, Farrelu From the Laffan News Bureau, New York.
Senator Smith. Have you a complete transcript or copy of news
published by your company regarding the Titanic disaster, which
you now hold in your hand?
Mr. Farrell. Not complete. I have the ticker tape in my hand.
Senator Smith. And you have the bulletins?
Mr. Farrell. The bulletins we published contained some m n-
essential statements which elid not appear on the ticker, but all vi the
important items appeared on the tic'lcer.
Senator Smith. I would like to have you read into the record that
statement, and indicate, with each item of news quoted, the stjurces
of your information.
Mr. Farrell. The first item we published was at approximately
8.10 a. m., April 15, as follows :
At 10.25 Sunday night new White Star liner Titanic called (\ Q. I), and r -
ported having struck an icel)erg. Wireless received stated stt>aniMhip ih^del
immediate assistance as she was sinking at the bow.
Another message received half hour later reiiorted the women were ''p' t:
put off in lifeboats. Marconi station at Cape Uace notified Allan Line Pte ii ship
Virffinian, which Immediately hetded for the Titanic. At midnight the Viif;i'i*rn
was 11 bout 170 miles distant from the Titanic and expected to reach that vessel
about 10 o'cI(K*k this morning. Steamship Baltic is headeil toward the di-nsN*r,
being 200 miles away at mi^lnlght.
Last word received fnnn sinking Titanic was a wireless heard l)y X\ c Vir-
ginian at 12.27. The oi)erator cm board the Virginian said these signals were
blurred and ended abruptly.
Among those on board are J. .J. Astor, J. Bruce Ismay. Benjamin (iugge'.ihefui.
George B. Widener, and Isidr>r Strauss.
You understand we begin business at 8 o'clock in the morning.
This was a brief summary of what appeared in the morning papers,
principally taken from the Herald.
Senator Smith. Some of that information, however, you obtained
direct from the White Star office — that to which I have previously
called your attention?
Mr. Fabrell. I believe that one of our men, about T.^W in the
morning, went to the White Star office and got some information
there, but as I recall it, he did not get much additional to what had
been published in the morning papers. The Herald, the Times, and
some of the other papers had rather complete accounts of it up to
that time.
1066 TITANIC DISASTER.
At 8.25 or thereabouts, in what we call our summary, which con-
sists of the important developments over night, taken from various
sources
Senator Smith. That was on April 15?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; we printed this line:
White Star Liner Tii^mic, <m maiden westward royage, hit by Iceberg and
reported to be 8iuktog. PasHengers being taken off.
That Tvas taken from the general news which appeared in the
morning papers.
At 8.35, or approximately that time, April 15, we published the
following :
<;>fficers of White Star Line stated at 8 o'clock this morning that passengers
on the TiianU' were being taken off in bouts and that there was no danger of
loss of life. The Baltic and the Virginian they stated were standing by to
assist in the rescue work.
On Titanir* there were 300 first class, 320 second class, 800 third class passen-
gers, and a crew of 900 men.
It is not yet kni'wn whether the vessel will be saved. White Star people are
in something of a quandary if she should be slaved, as it is said there is no dry
dock on this 8ide of the Atlantic to take care of her.
That was obtained by Mr. Gingold, one of our reporters, from the
White Star office.
Senator Smith. From Mr. Franklin?
Mr. Farrell. No ; this was not from Mr. Franklin.
Senator Smith. From some other of the subordinates?
Mr. Farrell. From some of the junior officers or employees. Mr.
Franklin had not yet arrived at his office.
At 8.58, or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the following :
A dispatch from Halifax reports that all passengers had left the Titanic in
boats shortly after 3.30 this morning.
Tliat was received from the Boston News Bureau, our Boston cor-
respondent.
At 9.02 a. m.. April 15, we published the following:
An official of White Star Line said: "There is no danger that Titanic will
sink. The boat is unsinkable, and nothing but inconvenience will be suffered
by the passengers."
I>atest information which has come to White Star office is that the Virginian
is due alongside the Titanic at 10 a. m., the Olympic at 3 p. m., and the Baltic
at 4 p. m.
That was obtained from Mr. Franklin by two of our reporters,
Mr. Smallwood and Mr. Byrne, who both saw him at the time.
At 9.22 a. m.. or thereabouts, April 15, we published the following:
vice President Franklin, of International Mercantile Marine, says, regarding
reported aciulent to Titanic: '* It Is unbelievable that Titanic could have met
with accident without our being notified. We had a wireless from her late
Sunday giving her position, and are absolutely satisfied that if she liad been in
collision with an iceberg we should have hejird from her at once. In any event,
the ship is unsinkable. and there is absolutely no danger to ptissengers.'*
That was received from Mr. Franklin by Mr. Trebell, one of our
reporters.
At 9.25 a. m., April 15. we published the following:
Cape Race.
Wireless advices from steamship Virginian said last word from wireless
telegrapher on Titanic was received at 3.05 o'clock this morning. He said
women and children were being taken off in calm sea. It is thought that
Titanic wireless has failed, due to some local cause.
'' TITANIC " DISASTER. 1067
That was received from the Laffan News Bureau, of New York.
At 9.27 we published the following:
TX)NDON.
Lloyd's were ue reinsuring Tiianic'H cargo to-day, but demanding pre-
mium of 50 per cent.
That was received from the Laffan News Bureau.
Senator Smith. At what hour?
Mr. Farrell. We published it at 9.47; so it was a few minutes
before that that it came in.
Senator Smith. Did you make any attempt to verify the. La&B
News Bixrean item that an attempt was being made to reinsure the
cargo with Lloyd's?
Mr. Farrell. No.
Senator Smith. Did you send one of vour reporters to Lloyd's,
after receiving this information, where he had an interview with
the representative of that firm?
Mr. Farrell. I am not sure but that a reporter may have gone
to Lloyd's. Personally I did not send any, but of course the reporter
may have gone on his own initiative.
Senator Smith. Do you know what he ascertained the fact to be?
Mr. Farrell. No ; I do not.
Senator Smith. Did he ever report to you ?
Mr. Farrell. Not to my recollection.
Senator Smith. I wish you would think rather carefully about
this, because I do not want any mistake about it.
Mr. Farrell. I do not recollect any reports having been made to
me about the result of any investigation.
Senator Smith. Or to anyone else in your company or to any
other officer of your company?
Mr. Farrell. There might have been; but I could not say defi-
nitely as to that.
Senator Smith. It was the subject of some speculation and con-
versation in your office, was it not ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; it was.
Senator Smith. And was regarded as rather an unusual cir-
cumstance in connection
Mr. Farrell. At that time it was not regarded as so unusual,
because of our information that the boat was unsinkable; and we
believed that she was not going to go down.
Senator Smith. Subsequently it became rather important?
Mr. Farrell. Subsequently it became very important.
Senator Smith. Have you taken any pains to ascertain the truth-
fulness of that publication?
Mr. Farrell. I do not recollect any specific inquiry which we
made regarding that.
Senator Smith. Did you make any general inquiry of any repre-
sentative of Lloyd's or the White Star Line regarding it ?
Mr. Farrell. We made inquiries, as I recall, from the White Star
Line.
Senator Smith. When?
Mr. Farrel. I do not recall whether we published anything about
it or not, but the other newspapers had had, as I recall, emphatic
statements from the White Star Line that they had made no attempt
1068 '^ TITANIC '' DISASTEK.
to reinsure or anything of that sort ; and of coui-se it was our cui^toni.
where all the other papers had something, to let it go at that.
Senator Smith. In Wall Street, where your journal is suppo-^l
to reflect the opinion of financiers, that item was calculated to create
considerable controversy, was it not?
Mr. Farrell. Much controversy subsequently did arise on that
item.
Senator Smith. Were you criticized or threatened for publishing
that reinsurance story?
Mr. Farrell. Not to my knowledge. Any criticism of a seriou-
nature certainly would ccnie to my knowledge. I would be the c ne
to whom it should be made.
Senator Smith. Have you since been criticized for it?
Mr. P^ARRELL. Not directly. We have received no direct critici>ni.
There may have been talk, but no direct criticism has come to my
knowledge.
Seator Smith. Where is the office of Lloyds in New York?
Mr. Farrell. I really do not . loiow where their agent is in New
York.
Senator Smith. It is in Wall Street, is it not?
Mr. Farreijl. Some place in that neighborhood. I do not know
where their New York office is.
Senator Smith. Where is your own office in New York?
Mr. Farreix. At No. 44 Broad Street.
Senator Smith. In the center of the financial district?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; approximately.
Senator Smith. It would have been rather easv to have sent Mune
one to the office of Lloyd's that morning, would it not, to have a.scer-
tained that important fact?
Mr. Farreu.. It would ; but that morning we were working under
tremendous pressure, and every man we had was bent on getting the
news as to what was likely to happen to the Titanic^ and at the time
we considered the matter of remsurance a relatively unimportant
matter.
Senator S^uth. That is, you thought at the time that it was a
rather desirable hazard?
Mr. Farrell. Yes ; we thought Lloyd's were willing to gamble cm it
They wanted a high premium, but were willing to gamble, neverthe-
less.
Senator Smith. But from your own knowledge, or from any infor-
mal ion vou have received from your associates in the publication
of the Wall Street Journal, you do not know whether this was pro-
posed or consummated or not?
Mr. Farrell. I do not; no.
Senator Smith. Is there any officer or stockholder of your com-
pany who is also a stockholder or officer of the White Star Line?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir.
Senator Smith. Or of Lloyd's ?
Mr. Farrell. No.
Senator SMrrn. Or of the Western Union Co., of the Postal Tele-
graph Co., of the Marconi companies, or the cable companies?
Mr. Farrell. I could not say as to that. I know none of them
are officers or directors, I believe. Some of them may own 10 or
100 shares of stock in those companies, but not enough to be of any
it ».««.. ^.,^ ff
TITANIC DISASTEB. 1069
consecjuence. In ordinary investments a man might own almcst
anything, probably, but they have no official connection.
Senator Smith. Can you give the name of any stockholder
Mr. Farrell. Xo; I could not give any names. We have some
70 or 80 or 100 men — I guess, more than that — in oiir employ, and
some of them may have taken some Western Union stock as an in-
vestment, or some Postal Telegraph stock or Marconi stock as an
investment. That is none of our business. They are private invest-
ments.
Senator Smith. Proceed with your reading of the messages.
Mr. Farrell. At 9.28 a. m., or thereabouts, we published this item.
Senator Smith. I am going to assume, Mr. Farrell, that when you
state the time as 9.28, or any other time, vou are now speaking of
the 15th of April ?
Mr. Farrell. Oh, yes; April 15.
Senator Smith. And that when you get beyond the 15th you will
indicate that fact ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes. At 9.28 a. m. on April 15 we published the
following :
.\cl(Mtlonnl passen^erp on Titanic nre WastaiuKton I u<Ik<^, Henry B. Harris.
i\)\. Waphlnptoii UoeWhig. T. Stead. Alfred (;. Vauderbilt. J. Stuart White, John
B. Thayer, vice president of. the reunsylvania RailroMi, iind Henry Harper.
That was obtained from the passenger list.
At 10.29, or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the following :
SiASCoNBET, Mass.
Wireless station here oarly toHlay got niesHage fr«>ni .S. N. 0///m/Hr statin);
damage to Titanic was jrreat.
That was received from the Boston News Bureau.
Directly afterwards we published the following:
White Star offlclals rejKjrt Olympic w»i8 in connnnnication with Titanic
at 4.24 this morning, when Titani€' was still afloat.
That also came from the Boston News Bureau.
At 10.45, or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the following:
IMspatch from Montreal receive<l by White Star ottlcials siiys Titanic was
afloat at 8.30 and that women and children had not yet l)een taken off. though
^ifeboats were ready in case of emergency.
The steamship is heading in direction of Halifax, from which the Virginian
is approaching. It is thought that bulkheads will |)revent ship from sinking.
Titanic is moving under her own engines.
That was received from Mr. Franklin by Mr. Byrne, one of our
reporters.
At 10.49 or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the following:
MONTBEAL.
Wireless message received 10 o'clcx?k this morning said that two vessels were
standing by Titanic, and the big vessel's passengers had been taken ofT.
That was received from the Laffan News Bureau.
About 10.53, 1 should think, we published the following:
Possibility of losing Titanic is severe blow to International Mercantile Marine.
Like its sister ship, the Olympic, the Titanic started in with a run of hard luck.
However, this loss will not l>e shown in forthcoming annual report, to be issued
in June, as company's year closed December 31. It is exi)ected that Mercan-
tile Marine will earn about $3S,(XX),000 for year ended December 31 last, a net
of* alMHit $8,500,000 and final surplus of about $4,500,000. However, it is er-
1070 TITANIC DISASTER.
pected company will write off nt least $3,500,000 of this nmount for depre<'i.i-
tlon, leaving about $1»000,000 surplus for year.
Both the Titanic and Olympic are fully covered by a combination of comfmny
and outside insurance.
Of course, that had no direct bearing on the Titanic.
Senator Smith. From whom did you get that information ?
Mr. Farrell. That was written, I believe, bv Mr. Trebell. I do
not know where he got that information. Of course, it had nothing
to do with the disaster.
Senator Smith. I would like, if you could get it, to know the" source
of that information, whether it was official or was from some other
news agency.
Mr. Farrell. We did not receive it from any other news agency.
This may have been his estimate, you know. Of course, our report-
ers are supposed to keep veiy close track of the earnings of these
various companies, and frequently they are able of their own knowl-
edge to make an estimate without official information.
Senator Smith. Then you think this information was probably put
together in your office?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; I know it was put together in our office.
Senator Smith. In the item which you read just preceding that, I
did not catch the* expression, " Women and children had not yet Ijeen
taken off, though lifeboats were ready in case of emergency." Was
that in there ?
Mr. Farrell. That was not on the ticker tape in that message.
Senator Smith. It is in your original memorandum.
Mr. Farrell. It may be on the bulletin.
Senator Smith. It is in vour original memorandum.
Mr. Farrell. I was looking at the wrong one, I see. Yes: it i<
here [indicating].
At 10.5o, or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the following:
A wireless messn^ to White Star Line office states that the VirgiiUan Is uow
alongside the Titanic.
That was received from the Laffan News Bureau.
At 11.12 a. m., or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the fol-
lowing :
<
a. S. Franklin, of International Mercantile Marine, says:
" We can not state too strongly our belief that the ship is uushikable and
passengers perfectly safe. The ship Is re|>orted to have gone down several feet
by the head. This may be due from water filling forward compartments, and
siilp may go down many feet by the head and still keep afloat for an Indefinite
period.**
Interruption of wireless communication with the ship, according to comi^ny
officials, does not indicate danger.
That was received from Mr. Franklin by Mr. Byrne and Mr.
Smallwood, two of our reporters.
At 11.15 a. m., on April 15, we published the following:
London.
Information given out here states Titanic carried about $5,000,000 in bonds
and diamonds.
That was received from the Laffan News Service.
At 11.25 a. m., on April 15, we published the following:
Disimtch received at White Star offices from Capt. Haddock, of steauishlp
Olympic, says that bo.h the PaHsian and CatT>athia are In attendance on the
it ««^..».*^ 99
TITANIC DISASTER. 1071
Titanic. Carpathia has taken off 20 boatloads of passengers. The Baltic is
#Kp<ctod on the scene shortly.
That was received from Mr. Franklin by Mr. Byrne, one of our
reporters, and substantially the same message at practically the same
hour was received from Mr. Bottomley, an omcial of the Marconi Co.,
by Mr. Smallwood, one of our reporters.
At 12.12 p. m., or thereabouts, on April 15, we published the fol-
lowing :
The Sandy Hook marine operator received the following wireless on Iiis
machine at 11.36 o*clock this morning:
'* Wireless says Titanic is under way and proceeding to New York."
That came from the Laffan Xews Bureau.
At 3.01 p. m., April 15, we published the following:
P. A. S. Franklin, vice president International Mercantile Marine, says ar-
rangements have been made with New Haven road to send special train to
Halifax to meet passengers of the Titanic, Train will consist of 23 sleei)ers,
2 diners, and coaches sufficient for 710 people.
That was received by Mr. Byrne, one of our reporters, from Mr.
Franklin.
Senator Smith. That was at what hour?
Mr. Farrell. One minute past 3 o'clock p. m.
Senator Smfth. On Monday?
Mr. Farrell. April 15; yes.
Senator Smfth. You say this information came from Mr. Frank-
lin?
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smfth. Directly to one of your reporters?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. That would seem to indicate that he had at that
time absolute information as to the loss of the Titanic and the sur-
vival of only about 700 passengers from the ship's people, passengers
and crew?
Mr. Farrell. Taken at the face value, the statement would seem
to indicate that, but I will explain to you later what the White Star
people explained to me the following day.
Senator Smith. Let us get this just right. This is a direct state-
ment from Mr. Franklin, on Monday afternoon following the acci-
dent, that arrangements had been made for the survivors, mdicating
that he had some information
Mr. Farrell. I would not want you to put that in my mouth, Sen-
ator, because-i —
Senator Smith. No; I am just construing this, by way of asking
you a question.
That would indicate that he had some information upon which he
based the necessity for caring for about 700 people. What did you
publish after that?
Mr. Farrell. About 3.15 p. m. or tliereabouts, on April 15, we
published the following:
Canso, Nova Scotia.
At 2 o'clock the Titanic, having transferred her passengers to the Parisian
and Cat^paihia, was being towed to Halifax by the Virginian.
That came to us from the Laffan News Bureau.
Senator Smith. Of course, Mr. Farrell, you note the inconsistency
between that newr item and the one that just precedes it?
1072 '' TITANIC " DIfiASTER.
Mr. VarkeiJj, Yes.
Senator Smith. If her passengers had been transferred, as that last
item would seem to suggest, there would be two thousand and odd
pai^sengers, while the only provision in the former item was for 700
survivors. Between the time of the publication of that information
from Mr. Franklin and the publication of the last item to which you
have referred, did you have any personal talk with Mr. Franklin f
Mr. Farreix. I did not.
Senator Smith. What was the time of that item?
Mr. Farrell. 3.15 o'clock.
Senator Smith. And that came from the Laffan News Bureau?
Mr. Farrelu Yes. That is all we published in our news ticker
on April 15 concerning this accident.
Senator Smith. Do your bulletins for that day and the days fol-
lowing, up to the time of the arrival of the Carpathian contain sub-
stantially the same information?
Mr. Farrelu The bulletins contain substantially the same informa-
tion.
Senator Smith. As that contained on the ticker tape?
Mr. Farreij^ As that contained on the ticker tape; yes.
Senator Smith. Of Monday?
Mr. Farreu^. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you call that the ticker tape?
Mr. Farreu^ Yes.
Senator Smith. That is the ticker tape of Monday?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senatcr Smith. And the same would be ivflected in the bulletins
of the succeeding days?
Mr. Farrell. Only the story was entirely changed on the succeed-
ing days when we got it.
Senator Smith. Have you the ticker tape for Tuesday?
Mr. Farrell. I have not the ticker tape for Tuesdav, Wednesday,
or Thursday. It was only by accident I happened^ to find this,
ljecar.se we ordinarily do not save these at all. I just happened to
be able to get this.
Senator Smith. Was it vou who talked to me over the telephone
the other day from your office in New York?
Mr. Farrell. Yes ; I believe I did.
Senator Smith. I particularly wanted the tape, if it could be pre-
served.
Mr. Farrell. Yes: I know, but it had not been preserved.
Senator Smith. You have made diligent search for it?
Mr. Farrell. Yes: we have made search for it, all over.
Senator Smith. You have not been able to find it?
Mr. Farrell. We just happened, by accident more than anything
else, to find this of April 15. Oh, I beg your pardon. I am wrong
about it. I was thinking of Thursday. I have the tape for Tuesday
and Wednesday. It was Thursday I could not find.
Senator Smith. I^t us see what you have for Tuesday and
Wednesday. Had we better go through the bulletins for that day.
or have you compared them ?
Mr. Farrell. It is substantially the same stuff. All the impor-
tant stuff appeared on the ticker also.
Senator Smith. Can you let me see the bulletins of Monday?
f( .«,.«. ^-.^^ >f
TITANIC DISASTER. 1078
Mr. Farrell. Yes. Of course, we have the full list, and I picked
out the particular stuff pertaining to the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Let me ask wnat the effect was, upcn the stock
of the International Mercantile Marine Co., of the information pub-
lished in the Wall Street Journal on Monday ?
Mr. Fariusix. As I remember it, the stock declined about two
points. I think we have a record of it in the bulletins here. I am
quite sure we have.
Senator Smith. If you can give that accurately, I would like to
have it.
Mr. Fakreix. I know that from time to time during the day we
published it. Here it is: International Mercantile Marine; common
2,100 shares were dealt in; opened at $6 a share. The high was $6;
the low was $5.50 ; the close was $6.
Senator Smith. That was on Mondav ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes ; there was no net change.
The preferred opened at 20, n>se to 23^, and closed at 23^. That
was off seven-eighths for the day, net.
Senator Smith. What time does that indicate that the exchange
opened ?
Mr. Farrell. Ten o'clock. The movements occurred between 10
a. m. and 3 p. m., so that there was that substantial change in the
market value.
Senator Smith. I take it from the publication which you manage
that you are somewhat familiar with the movements of stocks.
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. What, in your opinion, was the effect upon the
market value of the stock, both preferred and common, of the In-
ternational Mercantile Marine Co., of the reports printed in the
Wall Street Journal and upon your bulletins and ticker tape that
day, giving assurance of the safety of the Titanic? ..
Mr. Farrell. There was, you might say, virtually no market in-
fluence, because the trading was very light, and, as I ]ust pointed out,
the net change in the trades for the day on the preferred was only
seven-eighths down and there was no net change for the common.
At one time the preferred was down about three points. It was
down about three points from the previous day's close and then re-
covered. The transactions were comparatively light and it really
seemed to have very little market.
Senator Smith. Suppose you had printed on that day the informa-
tion that was obtained that day by Mr. Franklin, of the White Star
Co., over the telephone from Montreal at 2.30 o'clock Monday morn-
ing, indicating that the Tita^iic was sinking and had not bolstered
r»p the unfavorable news by the optimistic reports which your ticker
and bulletin indicate, what, in vour opinion, would have been the
effect ?
Mr. Farreli>. Probably about the same, because after the full ex-
tent of the case became known the Marcantile Marine market price
changed very little.
Senator Smith. Of course it was filtei-ed out so slowlv thut tli:»
actual loss of the Tltamc was not fully known to the public for two
days
Mr. Farrell. It was known the next day, Tuesday.
4047r,— PT 13—12 2
1074 TITANIC DISASTER.
Senator Smith (continuing). After the accident occurred?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. That would have a tendency to strengthen the
market somewhat, would it not?
Mr. Farrell. It might have. A sudden and unexpected shtK'k
sometimes has more enect on the market than the same shock f<»r
which the market has been prepared.
Senator S^iith. But notwithstanding the belated news, the pre-
ferred stock of the International Mercantile Marine Co. went on on
Monday about sev^n points?
Mr. Farrell. No.
Senator Smith. How much?
Mr. Farrell. I think the maximum decline was about three points,
all of which, except seven-eighths, had been recovered before the
close, as I recall it. Maybe I can give that exactly here.
Senator Smith. What I am seeking to show, which of course you
can see very readily, is the effect of these false reports that were being
constantly sent broadcast, through your paper and your ticker and
your bulletins — and not alone by you
Mr. Farrell. And by others.
Senator Smith (continuing). But also by others — on the marked
for this company's shares. I would like to have you help me as much
as you can with any information you have there.
Mr. Farrell. The comparatively small trading in the shares
showed clearly enough that there was no suppression of news for
market purposes, I should judjj^e.
Senator Smith. Although it might have operated to affect the
market that way ? That might, however, have l)een the effect of the
course pursued, whether intentional or otherwise?
Mr. Farrell. That might have been the effect on a more active
stock than International Mercantile Marine, and one more widely dis-
tributed. But, you understand, Mercantile Marine is a very inactive
stock.
Senator Smith. It is closely held ?
Mr. Farrell. It is closely held, and never has been widely distrib-
uted, so far as I have been able to learn.
Senator Smith. I suppose you would like to be understood as say-
ing that the loss of the single ship, quite fully insured, would not
necessarily break the price of the stock very much ?
Mr. Farrell. Exactly ; yes. You see, the ship cost about $8,000,-
000; I believe it was insured for something like $6,000,000 or $6,000,-
000 ; and the net loss might be $2,000,000 to $3,000,000, which would
not break a company like the International Mercantile Marine Co.,
or ought not to do so, at any rate.
Senator Smith. Have vou figured out the real effect on that stock!
(The witness examinea a copy of the Wall Street Journal of April
16, 1912.)
Mr. Farrell. I was going over this. If you desire, I can give the
trading by hours on the stock exchange, and the prices.
Senator Smith. I would like to have it; yes.
Mr. Farrell. From 10 to 10.26 a. m. on April 15, 800 sliares of
Mercantile Marine common were traded in at 6 ; 200 shares Mercan-
tile preferred at 20, and 100 at 21.
<< fw^fw^ A ^y^^r^ 9f
TITANIC '^ DISASTEB. 1076
From 10.25 to 10.55 a. m., 100 shares of Mercantile Marine com-
mon were traded in at 6, and 100 at 5f . Of the preferred, 300
changed hands at 21^, 300 at 21f , 300 at 21|. 500 at 21f , and 100
at 21^.
From 10.55 to 11.45 a. m. on April 15, 200 Mercantile Marine com-
mon changed hands at 5^, 200 at 5f , and 500 at 5^. Of the preferred,
200 changed hands at 21^, 100 at 21f , 100 at 21|, and 100 at 22.
From 11.45 to 12.45 p. m. on April 15, 100 Mercantile Marine com-
mon changed hands at 5|, 100 Mercantile Marine preferred at 22^.
From. 12.45 p. m. to 1,45 p.m. on April 15, 200 Mercantile Marine
common sold at 5| ; of the preferred, 200 sold at 22, 100 at 22^, 100 at
22f , 100 at 22^, and 40 at 22f .
From 1.45 to 2.15 p. m., 100 Mercantile Marine preferred sold at
22|. That was the only transaction recorded during that time.
From 2,15 until 2.45 p. m. on April 15, 100 Mercantile Marine com-
mon sold at 6, 100 preferred at 22|, 100 at 23, and 100 at 23^.
Those were all of the transactions up to within 15 minutes of the
close of the market, at 3 o'clock, according to our records.
The closing price on Mercantile Manne common was at 6; un-
changed for the day. Mercantile Marine preferred closed at 23^;
down i net for the day.
Senator Smith. Mr. Farrell, the bulletins which you have handed
me are all that contain news items regarding the Titanic^ which
items appeared on the ticker?
Mr. Farrsll. I think, Senator, there is one item — one bulletin —
which we lost. This item which appears on the ticker, and which
has already been incorporated in the record, was on one bulletin
which was lost, somehow or other :
Officers of the White Star Line stated at S <»'cl(>ck this morning that pas-
sengers of the Titanic were being talcen off in boats and that there was no
danger of loss of life. The Baltic and the Virginian, they said, were standing
by to assist in the rescue.
Substantially the same thing was published in the bulletin.
Senator Smith. In all other respects these bulletins which you
have handed to the conmiittee contain all the information that ap-
peared on the ticker and, I assume, in the Wall Street Journal as
weU?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smifh. Regarding the Titanic f
Mr. Farrell. They contain more than appeared in the Wall Street
Journal, because in making up the Wall Street Journal we rewrote
the statement, partially, so as to make it more readable.
Senator Smtth. How about the succeeding days? If you have
the ticker tape for Tuesday and Wednesday, 1 would like that?
Mr. Farrell. Yes. Beiore I go I would like to compare those
with the bulletin so as to be positive. They are all numbered, so that
I can very easily check up.
Senator Smith. All right.
Mr. Farrell. This is the ticker tape for Tuesday, April 16. I
suppose that I had better give this in chronological order. Since I'
got your telegram yesterday I have not had time to carefully check
up these for Tuesday, but I think I can explain everything.
1076 '* TITANIC *' DiaASTSB.
Senator Smith. I will let you go through and check them up, if
you prefer, and we will come back at 2 o'clock.
Mr. Farrelu There is very little on this which requires in%'esti-
gation.
Senate r Smith. Very well ; proceed.
Mr. Farrbll. At 8.02 a. ni., April 16, we pubiished the following:
White Star IJiu*i- Titanic sank at 2.20 a. m. Monday, five honiK after crnsh-
inK Into an icebergs. More than 1 r>00 peT»)nR have been drowned.
Senator S^itth. This was Tuesday, the lf)th of April ?
Mr. P'arrei^l. This is the 16th, Tuesday. You recollect that thi»
information really came out after 6 o'clock Monday night. | Con-
tinuing reading:]
At 7.30 a. ni. this morning an official of the Mereautile Marine stated that
company had been receiving names of those saved aU night and that no far
they hrd i-eceived 200. He stated the captain of Carpathia estimated there were
between 800 and 850 persons saved. The names of Mrs. J. J. Astor and maid
are among those received, but no mention is made of Col. Astor or J. Archibald
Butt.
lyatest message is, Carpathui has 866 passengers aboard. Orave fears for
rest of Titanie'n passengers.
First definite message received was from Capt. Haddock, of Olympic, which
stated: *' Carpathia reached Titanic position at daybreak. l)^>und boats am]
wreckage only. Titanic sank about 2.20 a. m. in 41.46 uortli. 50.14 west. All
her bojits accounted for, containing al>out 675 souls saved, crew and [wssen^rers
included. Nearly all saved women and children. I^eyland liner Califomian
remained and searching exact ])ositiou of disaster. Tx)br likely total 1.8<^)
souls.''
That was a summary gleaned from the morning newspapers,
which were at hand, and by a reporter who visited the White Star
offices that morning ; but they had practically nothing more than all
the newspapers had at the same time.
Senator Smith. So that you based that publication on general
information ?
Mr. Farrell. Ongeneral information.
Senator Smffh. miich the papers had printed?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. In their morning editions?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smfth. And not upon any conversation that you had with
any oflScial of the White Star Co.?
Mr. Farrell. When our reporters visited the White Star offices
we got similar information, oi course. It was common property at
that time.
About 8.16 a. m. Tuesday, April 16, we published the following:
It is estimated cost of building and equipping Titanic was between |7,500,(KM>
and $8,000,000. How much insurance was carried on her has not l)een officially
announced, but is understood to have been about $5,000,000. Her cargo was
worth $750,000. Insurance men estimate loss to International Mercantile Ma-
rine Co. will be somewhere around $3,000,000.
That information I received myself from one of the officials of the
White Star Line, whose name I do not now recall. That has not
•much direct bearing.
Senator Smith. I would like very much if we could identify tlie
source of this information which came from the WTiite Star. If
you can think of the name of the man, I wish you would give it.
a nrrm^<»-r^ 9f
TITANIC " DISASTER. 1077
Mr. Farrell. I can easily find out who the man was. Of course,
ours being a financial publication, the financial end was what we
were primarily interested in, after the humanitarian end, and some
of the morning papers had vague inferences as to the loss, and desiring
to get something more definite, I myself went down to the White
Star Line, early that morning, somewhere around 8 o'clock, or shortly
thereafter, to see Mr. Franklin, but he was engaged in a conference
at that time. I wanted to inquire concerning two particulars, first,
as to the value of the vessel, and, second, as to the insurance ; and an-
other point I wanted to inauire about was as to why the information
subsequently proved to be lalse had been given out at the White Star
offices all day Monday, and on what authority he based that informa-
tion. We will come to that later. I was referred at that time to
the head of the insurance department, I believe, for this estimate on
the cost of the Titanic and the amount of the insurance.
Senator Smith. Who was he, do vou recall ?
Mr. Farrell. I do not recall his name, but I can find out his name
and let you know.
Senator Smith. I wish you would do so.
Mr. FARREiiL. I will make a note df that.
Senator Smith. And also please let me have the names of the other
persons you talked with.
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. I did not know, until I got your telegram
yesterday, that you would want to go over the news of Tuesday,
Wednesday, and Thursday, so that I have not identified that in so
close detail as I did that of Monday. Of course it is really less im-
portant, anyhow.
About 8.28 o'clock a. m., on the 16th of April, we published in the
course of our regular news summary of the morning events this item
conceiving the Titanic:
Net money loss to Inteniationiil Mercantile Marine from siukhiK of Titanic.
estimated, |3,00O.UO0. About 1.350 lives lost; around 900 wived.
That was based on general information which at that time had
become public.
Senator Smith. That was on Tuesdav, the 16th i
Mr. Farrell. That waa on Tuesday, the 16th.
Senator Smith. At what hour?
Mr. Farrell. About 8.30 a. m. About 8.45 we published the fol-
lowing:
White Star Line hiis received wireless advices so far telling that the followinjs
passengers on Titanic were saved.
Then follows a partial list of those who were saved.
At 8.57 a. m. we published this :
Among those passengers who have not yet been heard from are Col. .John
Jacob Astor. Isador Sti-ans, George D. Widener, MaJ. Archibald Butt, Beiijjunin
Guggenheim, Chjirles M. Hayes, Francis D. Millett. Henry B. Harris, WUllnni T.
Stead, John B. Thayer, and W. A. Roebling, 2d. Although early reiH)rts were
that J. Bruce Ismay, president of International Mercantile Marine, had been
saved, definite news has not yet been received confirming it.
We took the list of those who we knew were aboard or had been
booked to sail, and those reported to have been saved, and these
persons had not yet been reported.
Senator Smith. That was the onlv source of vour information?
1078 ** TITANIC " DISASTEB.
Mr. Farrell. Yes. Of course Wall Street was very much in-
terested in the fate of all those men, so that we singled those out.
About 9.20 a. m., April 16, we published the following:
Cimnrd Line people say the Carpathia is expected at New York late Thursday
night or Friday morning.
That was received from the Cunard Line offices by one of our
reporters ; I think from Mr. Stead. I am not sure about that, but it
was from one of the Cunard people down there.
About 9.25 a. m. we published this:
john b. thayeb alionost subvivob8.
Philadelphla.
Wireless dispatch just received by family of John B. Thayer, vice president
Pennsylvania Railroad, states Mr. Thayer, Mrs. Thayer, and their son were
saved, and are on board the Carpathia.
I suppose that came from the Philadelphia News Bureau, our
Philadelphia correspondent. I am not positive on that.
Senator Smith. Do you know from whom it came?
Mr. Farkell. I do not know. I am not positive. As I told yon
before, I have not had time to take up these sources of information
for Tuesday and Wednesday.
About 9.30 a. m. on Tuesday we published this:
Titaiiic's lifeboat equipment, it is said, consisted of 16 lifeboats and 4 ojI-
lapsible rafts, which could take care of but one out of every three aboard.
Officials of bureau of inspection of steam vessels say that it is customary for
vessels to carry sufficient life-saving apparatus for but one-third of its comple-
ment and passenger list.
Senator Smith. Where did you get that information ?
Mr. Farrell. I do not know exactly where we got this, but it is
a compilation which anyone in the office might have made, having
no direct bearing on the disaster itself, and I rather think that it was
prepared in the office.
Then, about 9.40 a. m., we published this:
I*olice reserves have been called to handle the crowd which filletl White Star
Line offices.
Of course that was from some of our reporters down at the White
Star offices.
At 9.42 a. m. we published this:
All securities on the Titanic addressed to Wall Street and transfer offices of
various American railroads and other coriKirations were necesKnrily Insui-ed.
In order to eflfect this insurance in Ix>udon a list must be made out, and this
is certified by the notary public before the American consul. It is necessary,
therefore, to secure n duplicate of this in order to obtain from comi>anies con-
cerneil a reissue of securities. A bond mrst be filed for twice the amouut
Involved, and there is the usual and lepal delay for public mitice by advertising
in newspapeiH before new securities can be issued.
PrcKif of k»ss must be submitted at'd actual sinking of the Titanw is uot
necessarily conclusive. Registered mall from the steamer Oregon was i»lcked
up several days afterwards, and It Is quite conceivable that resiionsible officers
of tbe TitfuUc, knowing that vessel was sinking, endea\ored to save the re>?-
Istered packages.
That was simply written up by one of our men who knew the usual
procedure in such cases.
Senator Smith. Without any definite information?
Mr. Farrell. Well, except his general knowledge of the pro-
cedure in such cases.
«< mxfwi«-VT«r« "
TITANIC " DISASTER. 1079
About 9.56 a. m. we published this:
White star officii) Is this morning say first news they had directly yesterday
was received after 6 p. m. They gave out to all inquirers the indirect infor-
mation they had received in newspaper reports from various quarters and
unofficial wireless despatches said to have been received at Montreal, Halifax,
and other place&
The news men toolc these reports from White Star office and believed them
to be official, and White Star officials believed them to be authentic, although
not directly received.
I got that message out from the White Star offices, as I men-
tioned a while ago. I went down there to find out why they had
given out these dispatches and published them, which had subse-
quently proven to be false. I went to see Mr. Franklin, but he was
held up in a conference, and I wanted to get at some one in au-
thority as soon as I could, so that I was turned over to one of his
assistants, and I asked him, '' How is it that these dispatches were
given? This information came from your office yestenky." I said,
"Did you receive that news? " He said," No; the first definite news
we received was after 6 o'clock last night, and directly after that we
called up the newspapers and gave it out." I said, " Well, our re-
porters were down here yesterday at the White Star Line offices all
dav." He said, "Well, that was not official. We had received that
information from various sources, and we just gave it out."
Senator Smith. You are now giving the conversation you had
with him?
Mr. Farreli.. Yes; that is approximately it.
Senator Smith. And when you say ''(> o'clock" you mean 6
oVlock; you do not mean
Mr. Farrell. To be exact, I think he said around 6.30.
Senator Smith. Aroimd 6.30?
Mr. Farrell. Yes. As I remember, he first said after 6 o'chx*.k,
and then I said "What time is it?" He then said that it was
around 6.30.
Senator Smith. So that that declaration stands^
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. Of course, the importance of that declaration lies
in the fact that at 7.51 that night a telegram was sent by the White
Star office to Representative Hughes of West Virginia that every-
body was saved. That is the reason why I was so anxious to have
you fix the hour.
Mr. Farrell. Yes. I guess it has been pretty definitely estab-
lished that they actually did receive the news between 6.20 and
6.30 Monday night.
Senator Smith. This information that you give is direct and
positive?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. All right
Mr. Farrell. About 10.20 a. m. on Tuesday we published this :
The Marconi office at 27 Will la ui Street received word from Cape Race sta-
tion that communication has been bad with the Virginian. They do not think
that any of Titanic's passengers are aboard. Station at Sable Island has been
in communication with Parisian and she has no passengers aboard.
That was received from the Marconi office bv one of our rei)orters
whom I sent over there. I do not remember just which one it was,
now.
1080 ** TITANIC " DISASTER.
Senator Smith. This was after 10 o'clock a. m. ?
Mr. Farrell. It was approximately 10.20 a. m., I should say;
some place around there.
We also at that same time published the following:
Cafe Rack.
Early to-day a wireless wiis picked ii]> fn)iii steauisliip OlympU; wtaieli coii-
flrnied the reiwrt that steamer Carpathia, with S(>6 survivors of Titank\ nuMFtly
women and children, is being rushed to New Yorii. The message eiidR as fol-
lows :
" Grave fears are felt for safety of balance of passengers and crew."
I do not identify, for the moment, where that one came from.
That is one that I did not have an opportunity to investigate thor-
oughly. It is innocuous, anyhow.
About 10.30 a. m. on Tuesday we published the following:
Following are among names of second-class imssengers reiiorted wu-ed.
Then follows another partial list from the list which the Wliite
Star oflSce was receiving from the Cunard office.
Also we published the following:
Up to 10.30 members of the Astor family had received uo w<»rd from iV>l.
John Jacob Astor. The Guggenheim family Wiis likewiFP without uewx from
Benjamin Guggenheim.
At 10.40 a. m. we published this:
Cunard Line received following wireless from captain of CariMthia: ".Sm pn>-
ceeding New York, unless otherwise ordered, after liaving consulted with
Mr. Ismay and considering circumstances. With so much ice alK)ut, cvmsider
New York best. Large number of icebergs and 20 miles field ice."
Message is broken here.
Another message saj-s: " Titanic struck iceberg Monday, 3 a. m., 41.46 north.
50.14 west. Carpathia picked up many passengers in boats. Will wire further
particulars. Proceeding back to New York.
Senator Smith. What is the hour of that first message?
Mr. Farrell. From the item's time, I should say it was about 10.37
or 10.38.
Senator Smith. From whom was that received?
Mr. Farrell. The first one was received from the Cunard Line.
I had two or three reporters down there all day.
Senator S3iith. And the second one was received from whom ?
Mr. Farrell. I think it likely that the second one came from the
same place, but I am not positive of that. There may be something
on it here to show.
At 10.35 a. m., under the heading " Market," we published the fol-
lowing :
Mercantile Marine 4^8, 65| ; off 2|. Mercantile Marine 5s. off H; preferred.
20f, off 2g.
So that, you see, the following morning when the news of the
disaster did come out, the bonds broke a little over two points ; the
4is and the stock was off a little over two points.
Senator Smith. It does not say what the change was in the com-
mon stock.
Mr. Farrell. No; there was probably no trading in the common
stock. However, I can give you the prices on that also for the day.
a »»r,^A<WT'r^ >J
TITANIC ' DISASTER. 1081
About 10.50, April 16, we published the following:
Officials of Anchor Line dispatched a marcoiiifirram to nteamshii) Calif ornian
Monday night ordering her to stand by on scone of Titaniv dlstaater until re-
lieved to pick up any survivors who have not already been reHcued.
Boston.
It was announced here at WhI e Star Line local office that a wireless had
been received from St. Johns, New Brunswick, stating steamship Virginian is
making for that iK)rt. Ii is tliought she may have some survivors of Titanic
on board.
At the same time a despatch from Southampton was published, as
follows :
South. \MPTON.
It is officially announceii I^ord and Lady Duflf-liordon were traveling on
steamship Titanic incognito as Mr. and Mrs. Morgan.
I have not ascertained definitely where those did come from.
Then at 10.55 a. m. on Tuesday we published an additional list of
passengers received from the offices.
At 11.07, approximately, April 16, we publislxed this:
Montreal office of Allan Line recel^-ed a wireless from the Virffinian that she
and the Parisian reached scene of Titani&n collision too late to save an.v i)a»-
sengers and that former boat resumed her course to LlveriK>ol.
I have not any note on that, as to where it came from. I have not
identified the source of that message.
At 11.17 a. m. on Tuesday we published an additional list of pas-
sengers saved.
At-about 11.32 a. m. we published this:
Representatives of Whi'e Star Line dlwredit tlie rnmor tliat there was large
amount of securities on Iniard Titanic running up to several millions. When
boat sailed the White Star people received no word that any securities were
aboard, as they usually do wlien any considerable quantity of stocks or bonds
were shipped on one of their boats.
One of our reporters got that from the AMiite Star office.
Senator Smith. Do you know the name of his informant ?
Mr. Farhell. No, I do not. About 11 oVhx^k Tuesday morning,
or I should say about 11.40 a. m., we published this:
White Star Line received message saying Charles M. Hayes, [iresident (Irand
Trunlc Railway, is among survivors.
I remember that distinctly, because I handled it myself. We were,
of course, trying to find out, as to all these prominent men, whether
they were saved or not, and I asked one of the men to call up the
Grand Tnink offices in New York, and the Grand TiMink offices said
that they had received word from the White Star Line saying that
it had advices saying that Mr. Hayes was among the survivoi's, which
subsequently proved false. He was not.
Senator Smith. Did you seek to verify that item from any White
Star official?
Mr. Farrell. We did later, but not at that time.
Senator Smith. Before its publication?
Mr. Farreix. No. The Grand Trunk office told us they had re-
ceived word from the White Star Line that the White Star had re-
ceived advices that Mr. Hayes w^as saved. Our experience has been
that in matters of that sort the railroad officials are usually to be
relied upon.
1082 TTTATnC " DISASTER.
About 11.48 a. m., I should say, on April 16, we published this:
Wblte star officials say that 318 out of 360 first-class passengers on TUanic
have been accounted for.
That came from the White Star office.
About 12.25 p. m., April 16, we published this :
According to officials of Cunard Line there is no ground for fear that Car-
pathia is overloaded because of having picked up 800 Titanic pasaeiigers^ as
vessel can accommodate nearly 2,500 persons, or several hundred more than are
now on board.
We got that by inquiry at the Cunard Line, because a rumor had
got SLUOtit that the CarpcUhia might founder on account of her
heavy load.
About 12.30 p. m., April 16, we published this :
Vice President Franklin, of International Mercantile Marine, says that White
Star Line {r holding no information back. Olymffic is now standing off Cape
Race and is relnying names of passengers on Carpathia to Cape Race.
*
With regard to that statement, in newspaper circles early that
morning, there was a general feeling that all the news had not been
allowed to get out, and some of the reporters down there went so
far as to make it pretty plain to Mr. Franklin that they suspected
he was holding something back, and that was the statement he made.
Of course, there was a large gathering of reporters there, and this
charge was made. I do not know just the details, and I am giving
the report of one of my reporters who sent it to me, but he was
asked rather pointedly, and he declared positively that he was hold-
ing no information back, and he said that he would show them the
original dispatch from Capt. Haddock. Then the reporters went
out. and he called them back, and did show them the original dis-
patch from Capt. Haddock, which conformed with the statement
which he had given out regarding it.
Senator Smith. Did you have any personal conversation with
him about the matter that day?
Mr. Farrell. No : I did not. About 1.20 p. m., April 16, we pub-
lished a general story on the International Mercantile Marine Co.
Do you want that read into the record?
Senator Smith. What does that refer to?
Mr. Farrell. It reads as follows:
mekcantilf: marine cx).
Intematiomil Marine Stetimship Co. was one of Morgan's promotions of 10
years apo, following in wake of United States Steel CJorporatlon. Steel came
out hi April, 10(H, and the steamship oomimny in October, 1902.
The big billion dolhir oorporation floated successfully In Wall Street, but
International Mercantile Marine, which performs relatively greater public
service for relatively les8 cost, has never really floated. Insurance companies
and other underwriters had to hold their bonds, which represented real value,
and they have always sold on this side of the water for far less than replace-
ment value of the property, to say nothing of good will.
On the other side of the wiiter the capture of White Star Line by American
bankers aroused storm of indignation in England, and caused heavy suMdies
for Cunard Steamship Co. and rivalry of building of big ships. In a few years
all steamship companies suffered an era of low rates and reduced or suspended
dividends.
Recently tonnage rates over the world have been much higher, and prosperity
and dividends and increased surpluses were in sight.
ii f»«^^<«r«M "
TTTAKIO " DISASTER. 1083
The record of Intenintionrl Marine Feenis to l>e thus far the iH)verty of
low ocean rates or on biffh ocean ratps Kteanisbip dlsapter.
It was flf^nred that company could cliarj^e off for 1011 $8,500,000 and raise
Its surplus account by about a million. The Titanic distister, with net Iosh
above all insurance of $2,000,000. will set back the surplus to u deficit, but not
as far back as deficit of $1,297,854 at the close of 1909.
Senator Smith. From whom did you receive that information ?
Mr. Farrelj^. That was written by a man who re^larly looks
after the International Marine Co. I suppose most of it was matter
of record.
Senator Smith. In your office?
Mr. Farrell. Yes ; in the statistical books— the Financial Chroni
cle and others in our office, and it was §imply a bringing together ot
matters of record.
About 1.54 p. m., April 16, we published this :
No word has been received as to the fate of Edgar J. Meyer, vice president
Braden Copper Co.. who was on the Titanic. He is a brother of Eugene
Meyer, jr., of firm of Eugene Meyer. Jr., & Co. Nor has anything been heard
as yet from Bradley Cumings. of Stock Exchange Arm, Cuniings & Marckwald.
or from Benjamin Guggenheim, president International Stetini Pump Co.
That information was received by our reporters from Eugene
Meyer, jr., brother of Edgar J. Meyer, and from some of the Gug-
genheim family, and from some of the Cumings family.
About 2.07 p. m., April 16, we published this :
Officials of Cunard Line Imve seiit about a dozen messages to Capt. Uostrou
of the Carpathia, but have been unanle to secure jiny answers, and do not
know whether or not the wireless ofierators have beci able tt» reach the vessel.
It is understood that when Carpathia arrives here ThurKlay night cust(»ni><
regulations will be waived »ud ship will not l>e boarded until a binding is
made at the New York pier.
That came from the Cunard offices. Everybody was wonderinjr
why they could not get more information about it.
Senator SMrrn. I am glad to have that item appear in the record.
Mr. Farrbll. About 2.20 p. m., April 16,^ we published this :
Although White Star Line has received wireless advices that SIS out of
the 350 first-cabin passengers have been saved, the names of only IKl of these
have 80 far been received. The identity of the others is still unknown. The
names of 111 second-class passengers have been rer>orted.
That was based on information we got from the White Star
offices.
There is an apparent conflict there. We received advices through
the White Star Line that 318 of the first-cabin passengers had been
saved, but only 181 names were reported. I made inquiries to find
out why the rest of them were not reported, and finally they an-
swered that their names had not been received. It occurred to me
that possibly only 181 had been saved, inasmuch as we had only that
many names.
At 2.26 p. m. we published the following from Washington :
Washington.
Expressing his horror at reports of Titanic disaster, Chairnian Alexander, of
House Committee on Merchant Marine, said that if it was shown there were
not more than enough lifeboats aboard the ship than to save one-third of pas*
sengers immediate steps would be taken to close American jiorts to all vessels
which did not carry sufficient life-saving appanitus to save all on board.
1084 '* TITANIC '* DI8A8TBB.
Regnrdlug re|)ort that wireless communieatiou with the wrecked vessel and
ships which went to lier rescue was interrupted by amateurs, Mr. Alexander
said a bill would shortly he reiiorted from his committee to regulate radio
communication and prevent such interference in future.
That we got from the Washington correspondent
About 2.55 p. m., on April 16, we published the following:
The Lapland, of Red Star Line, sailing Saturday, will take first and second
cabin passengers Niolced for the Titatiic. She will call at Plymouth and Cher-
bourg and go on to Antwerp. ^
That does not amount to much.
Senator Smith. Where did that come from f
Mr. Farrell. It probably came from the Red Star Line in a notice
they had sent out. It is inconsequential, anyway.
That is all of Tuesday's record.
Senator Smith. Mr. it^arrell, will you check up Wednesday's tape
and bulletin and come in again at 4 o'clock this afternoon?
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. I can not do very much checking up, other
than what I have already done on Tuesday's and Wedn^ay s tapes
and bulletins, because I would have to have my whole staff around
to identifv the different items.
Senator Smith. You will go as far as you can?
Mr. Farrell. Certainly.
Senator Smith. I want it all, so far as possible, and I want to go
as far as I can with vou at this time.
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. We will take a recess until 4 oVlock this after-
noon.
At 1.0r> o'clock p. m. a recess was taken until 4 o'clock p. m,
AFTER REC^ESS.
TESTDCOinr OF MB. ICAITBICE L. FABBSLL— Continued.
Senator Smith. When we took the recess you had just finished
with Tuesday's ticket tape.
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. Have you Wednesday's tape there?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; I have.
Senator Smith. Will vou kindly state anything on Wednesday's
tane that relates to the titanic disaster?
Mr. Farrell. If I may, I would like to make a statement before
weproceed.
There seems to be in some of the accounts in the newspapers a mis-
apprehension of some of my testimony this morning on one point
regarding the arrangements made by Mr. Franklin for a special train
on the iSew Haven road accommocfating practically 700 passengers.
I notice that apparently by one correspondent that was interpreted
as my saying that would indicate that he had information
Senator Smith (interposing). I think you qualified it.
Mr. Farrell. Yes; I did; out if I may add — of course you want
the facts — what simply is a matter of opinion, I do not think that
construction is necessarily justified.
Senator Smith. We will let it stand for what it is worth. The
statement of yours was specific, and I understood you to give nothing
ii f»«^A-»^«^ "
TITANIC " DISASTER. 1085
except the facts that you could testify to. As to its bearing upon
any other phase of the inquiry, I did not understand you to express
an opinion.
Mr. Farkell. No; I did not intend to, and I do not believe I did.
Senator Smith. 1 might have said to you that on its face it would
look as though they had information, and you replied, '* Yes. that
might be so "; but that would not neceshjarily indicate your opinion.
Mr. Farrbll. I would not wish to stand vn the recc rd as being put
in that position.
Senator Smith. You do not want the record to show that you have
construed it at all ?
Mr. Farrell. Exactly.
Senator Smith. I think I understand your attitude.
Mr. Farrell. If I was called upon for any construction, I would
say that did not necessarily mean that; but the first thought was to
rush a special train up there, probably such train having capacity
for 700, and probably subsequently to make arrangements for other
special trains if they were desired.
Senator Smith. I did not understand you to construe that state-
ment, and I think the record is just as you wish to have it.
Mr. Farrell. I think it is.
There is also another point. There also seems to be an idea that it
was brought out in the testimony here this morning, that the publi-
cations of Dow, Jones & Co. were calculated to bolster up the market
for International Mercantile Marine. Nothing of that sort was done.
Senator Smith. Your statement does not show that at all.
Mr. Farrell. In fact, some of the evidence introduced frrm our
bulletin ticker commented that it would be a heavy loss to the Inter-
national Mercantile Marine.
Senator Smith. You have stated your position frankly and very
plainly, and we will let the record stand just as it is.
On Wednesday, if you have your ticker-tape references to the
Titanic disaster, I would like to have you give them.
Mr. Farrell. This is the ticker tape for Wednesday, April 17.
Senator Smith. You understand, we are not prosecuting anybody.
We are just searching for truth.
Mr. Farrell. Yes; I understand. You are after facts, of course.
Senator Smith. Sometimes it seems a little hard to get at the
truth, but I have not seen any attempt on your part to hold anything
back.
Mr. Farrell. I have no desire to do so. I am quite as much inter-
ested in solving this mystery as anybody else is.
I mentioned this morning a statement which I had prepared.
Senator Smith. Do you want that to appear in the record?
Mr. Farrell. If you please. It is something in the nature of
opinion, but I think probably offers some explanation of the per-
sistent circulation of erroneous reports.
Senator Smith. We will let that follow the detailed report in
chronological order.
Mr. Farrell. The first item published on Wednesday, April 17,
\vas at o a. m., and reads as follows:
The overnight news concerning the Titanic reveals little which was not pub-
lished by Dow, Jones & Co. yesterday. No word has yet been heard from Col.
.John .Jacob Astor, Isador Straus. MaJ. Archibald W. Hutt, George D. Widener.
1086 ** TITANIC " DISASTEB.
Harry Wldener, Benjamin Guggenheim, Edgar I. Meyer, Frank D. Millet; W. T.
Stead, Washington A. Roebling, or John B. Oumiugs of stock-exchange firm of
Oumings & Marckwald, and Jacques Futrelle the author, and Henry B. Harris
the theatrical man.
That was simply a brief summary for the information of our read-
ers of the situation as it stood at 8 o'clock Wednesday morning.
About 8.25 a. m. on April 17 we published the following:
White Star Line this morning rei>orted following additional survivors from
the Titanic.
We then gave the names of the additional survivors.
At 8.30 a. m. we published a brief line saying:
Titanic*8 dead, total. 1.342 ; survivors numlier i^idS al>oard Carpathia, due New
York late Thursday or Friday morning.
That was simply a summary of the general information up to that
time.
Senator Smith. From whom did you get that information?
Mr. Farrell. From the morning newspapers, mostly. We just be-
gan business at that time, at 8 o'clock in the morning.
About 8.35 a. m. we published the following:
Doubts have arisen as to fate of C'hnrles M. Hays, president Grand Tnink
Railway, who yesterday was reiwrted to have been saved. White Star Line this
morning states that it has rec^eived no message concerning him.
We got that from the White Star Line. Mr. Smallwood, one of
our reporters, got that.
Senator Smith. As you look at those bulletins I wish you would
lav them to one side.
Mr. F'arrelx.. I will do so.
At 8.49 a. 111., (m April 17, we published the following:
Captain of I^oyland Line froiirhter Etonian, which was not eqnipijed with wire-
less and which (t(M>ked in North River last night, reports that he passed nUtng
route taken by Titanic and that number of Ashing boats w^^ In vicinity of
the disaster at the time. He says he thinks many of the passengers if they
secured life preservers may have been rescued by crews of fishing vesself^.
Number known to have been rescued remains at 868, all on Carpathia.
I do not think that was published on the bulletin.
Senator Smith. From whom was that information obtained?
Mr. Farrell. It was a summary from some of the morning papers,
as T remember it.
About 8.52 we published this:
Steamship Carpathia reestablished wireleps communication with Cape Race at
7 o'clock this morning, and White Star Line is now receiving supplementary
list of survivors.
That came from one of our reporters at the White Star Line office.
Senator Smith. Did that go on the bulletin?
Mr. Farrell. I do not see it on the bulletin. I may come to it
later if it is on there.
At 9 a. m., on April 17, we published the following:
Names of passengers not on Failing list of Titanic, but reported saved by
Carpathia.
Then follows a list of such passengers. That was obtained by Mr.
Smallwood, one of our reporters.
Senator Smith. Do you know from whom it was obtained?
'* TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1087
Mr. Farrell. Presumably from the White Star Line. I do not
have it marked here.
At 9.25 a. m., on April 17, we published the following:
Cunard Line received foHowlng wireless message from the Carpathia via
HaHfax : " Carpathia was 596 miles from Ambrose light at 11 p. m. Tuesday
All well."
That was received at the Cunard Line office by Mr. Plummer, one
of our reporters.
Senator Smith. Was that bulletined?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
About 9.52 a. m. we published this:
Carpathia 596 miles from New York Tuesday at It p. m. Should arrive
about 9 o'clock Thursday night.
That was secured by Mr. Smallwood.
Senator Smith. From whom?
Mr. Farrell. At the Cunard Line office. .
About 10.30 a. m., on April 17, we published this:
Agent Sumner, of Cunard Twines, says :
** We are making every effort to find out why there was nearly 24 hours
delay in getting wireless messages from the Carpathia, Only three have been
received so far. The first received was the second one start e<i at 7.55 a. m.
Monday from Capt. Rostron of Carpathia, ann<»unclng nhout 800 aboard and
proceeding to New York. This was not received until Tuesday. The first
one sent Monday a. m. was received as the second Marconlgram and announced
sinking of Titanic. The third wireless was received to-<iay. It was a two-
coded word, started at 11 Tuesday night and received this morning, saying all
were well, and 596 miles east of Ambrose Light."
That, I think, was obtained by Mr. Plummer from Agent Sumner
of the Cunard Line.
About 10.35 a. m. we published the following:
At 11 p. m. Sunday wireless operator of steamship CituHnnati, of Hamburg-
American IJne, which arrived In port to-day, got the C. Q. D. and S. (). S. from
Titanic calling " In great danger, rush, rush," giving latitude and longitude.
Operator of Cineinnnti had been talking with Sable Island, 400 miles away, and
told Sable Island oiierator to stop while he was talking with Titanir. While
he was still In communication, the Olympic cut In and answered same call. The
Olympic sent out message to Cincinnati, saying she was much closer and was
going to relief of Titanic.
Senator Smith. From whom did that information come ?
Mr. Farrell. I have not that noted, and I do not know where that
did come from. Presumably one of our reporters, who was on the
ship news end of it, got it. I did not consider it very important.
Along about 11.30 a. m. we published this :
Among the callers at White Star ofllce to-day were Henry W. Taft, Da Witt
Seligman, and Mrs. Benjamin Guggenheim.
That came from our reporter who was covering the White Star
office.
About 11.45 a. m. we published this:
Cunard Line oflBclals say that reason details of disaster are not forthcoming
from the Carpathia Is due to the weak wireless aboard that boat.
That was obtained by Mr. Plummer at the Cunard office.
About 11.47 a. m. this was published :
Vice President Franklin, of the International Mercantile Marine, said :
**•! have heard nothing from the Carpathia since 9 a. m. yesterday. I think
Marconi instrument on Carpathia is absolutely m^ertaxed. This probably ex-
1088 ** TITANIC '' DISASTSB.
phiiiiB reH6()n we hare had no uieassiiges. I expect f'arpathia to dock early
Friday morning. White Star Line hnn wired to Xewiiort. asking them to try
to get some newn from the ^'«/f m."
When asked what the White Star IJne would do in fntnre to safeguard lives
of passengers in way of lifeboatH, be said :
" We assnre yon. White Star Line will do everything in its power to avoid
simil ir dlRjister. ConiiKiuy has always endeavored to do everything for safety
and comfort of its passengers."
That was obtaine<l from Mr. F'ranklin by Mr. Byrne, one of oar
reporters.
Senator Smith. Was that bulletined?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
About 1.20 p. ni. on April 17 we published this:
Cunard Line has gi\en out copy of Marconi message received fi'om Winfleld
Thompson, of Boston (^lolte. who is passenger on steamship Franconia, raying:
" Steamer Framnnln ('KtabllFhed communication with Carpathia at 6.10 a. id..
New York time. letter was then 498 miles east of Ambrose (Channel, in uo
nee<l of assistance, stemming V\ knots. IOxi)eet to reach New York S Thuraday
evening. Hsis total <>f 7or» survivors aboard. Fntncoitki is relaying pernoual
ness- ges from (Uirpnlhin to Sable Island.*'
Tl at was obtained by Mr. Phnnmer. one of our reporters, from the
Cunard Line office.
At 1.18 we published a Washington dispatch referring to the action
of the House Committee on Mercnant Marine. That is not germane,
however.
About 1.-23 p. m. we published this:
LONDOX.
Following ui) demand of the Times that Central News produce originals of
wiielcss mess) ges to cfTcct that all passengers had been placed on board stetim-
shi]i Parisian and that Titanic was being towed by steamship Virffinian, Col.
Y:<te. I'nionist nieml>er of House of Commons, has given noti(*e that he wUl asii
|M)stmastcr general if his attention has been calletl to siiid message and whether
original of it c«'uld be traced.
AVe received that, 1 believe, from the Laffan News Bureau.
Senator Smith. That former dispatch which you I'ead, which said
705 aboard, seems to harmonize quite closely with the special -train
provision.
Mr. Farkell. Of coui-se. I am not competent to testify on that.
Senator Smith. They were providing for 710 on that train.
Those items which you have just read are supposed to cover all the
infc rmaticm that went to your subscribers over the tape ticker?
Mr. Faijiell. Yes. sir.
Senator Smti-h. Was there any information given to your cus-
tomers in any other manner than by the tape ticker or the bulletin
service or the Wall Street Journal?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir: except possibly a customer would call up
during the day and say. '" What is the latest news/' or, '' What do
you hear," and we would simply tell him over the telephone what
were the latest advices.
Senator Smith. I notice items of news appear occasionally on the
ticker tape that are not included in the bulletin. What is the cm-
casion of that ?
Mr. Farrell. Sometimes it is by accident. At other times an item
will go out on the tape, and before it gets printed on the bulletin
we will receive additional information which will embody the pre-
vious item.
** TITANIC " DISASTER. 1089
Seator Smith. Is the ticker tape supposed to be more authentic,
and in a sense confidential to your subscribers, than the bulletin?
Mr. Farrfll. No, sir; they are both the same in that respect, only
from the tape ticker our subscribers get the news quicker. That is
practically instantaneous. The bulletins, of course, have to be set
up in the printing depa^ftH^nt and printed and then carried around
by boys.
Senator Smith. They have practically the same information ?
Mr. Farrell. Usually the same information, except that on the
ticker tape the information is condensed.
Senator Smith. That is, it is edited when it reaches the bulletin,
and it comes in its orginal form when it comes on the ticker?
Mr. Farrell. No; it is the revei-se. Of course, the matter is edited
for both.
Senator Smith. Yes.
^Ir. Farrell. But you understand that the ticker can not carry all
the stuff which we publish in the bulletins, seo that we take the meat of
the stuff we publish in the bulletins and put it on the ticker, elimi-
nating all superfluous words and everything of that sort.
Senator Smith. All of the information that is contained on the.
ticker tape and in the bulletins is reflected in the Wall Street
Journal ?
Mr. Farrell. So far as possible. Of course, like every other news-
paper we are frequently heavilv overset, and there is not room
enough in the Journal to cover all we publish in the bulletin. That
sometimes occurs.
Senator Smith. Items appearing in the Wall Street Journal are
not necessarily the exact items that appear either upon the ticket
tape or in the bulletins?
Mr. Farrell. Usually they are. Sometimes they are revised /or
the Wall Street Journal, which goes to press, the afternoon edition,
shortly after 3 o'clock. Sometimes they have to be revised, because,
you see, an item which went out in the present tense at 9 or 10 o'clock
in the morning would be in the past tense at the time for the after-
noon paper.
Senator Smith. Stock quotations are supposed to be exactly the
same in all three of these publications?
Mr. Farrell. Yes; allowing, of course, for typographical errors,
which are corrected as much as possible.
Senator Smith. But events that happen during the day sometimes
appear in one a little more fully than in the other?
Mr. Farrell. On the bulletins they usually appear more fully
than on the ticker.
Senator Smith. Have you here the bulletins which correspond
with the items you have just read into the record ?
Mr. Farrell. I find one here which I think would be of interest
which I do not think appeared on the tape. It is headed, "Those
false reports." It reads:
I'uele of Philiipe, wireless operator of Titanic^ solved one of the mysterious
wireless messages that at first gave hope vessel was saved. He acknowledges
that he sent the following messages from I>ondon to Mr. and Mr. Phillips,
Oodalming. Surrey, Englnnd, parents of the wireless ojierator, to reassure them :
"Maklug slowly for Halifax; iiractlcally unsinkable; don*t worry."
Senator Smith. From whom did you obtain that information?
40475— PT 13—12 3
1090 '* TITANIC " DISASTER.
Mr. Farrell. From the Laffan News Bureau.
■ Senator Smith. Mr. Farrell, do you know of any news item or
information possessed by you or your company or by any of its
officers or agents that was attempted to be suppressed?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir ; I do not.
Senator Smith. Do you wish to be understood as saying that no
pressure of any kind or character was brought to bear upon you?
Mr. Farrell. Oh, absolutely none.
Senator Smith. For the purpose of suppressing news concerning
this matter?
Mr. Farrell. Absolutely none whatever. It would not have been
tolerated if there had been ; and there really was no pressure. There
was not a suggestion of that sort.
Senator SMrni. All that you printed on the tape or in the bulletins
or the paper you have given here ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. There may have been one or two further
unimportant items, but all of the iniportant items, so far as I have
been able to find them, I have submitted here.
Senator Smith. And these exhibits you leave with the committee!
Mr. Fakrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. Have you at any time had any talk with any
officer or agent of the White Star Line or of the International Mer-
cantile Marine Co. concerning what was to be said by you regarding
this matter at the hearing?
Mr. Farrell. None whatever. In fact, none of them knew that 1
was to appear here. I said nothing to them.
Senator Smith. And you have given the committee the sources of
all your information, so far as you know them ?
Mr. Farrell. To the best of my knowledge and belief, so far as
J, have been able to ascertain.
Senator Smith. So far as you have been able to do so?
Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. You spoke of one of the reporters, who turned in
several important items of news in connection with this matter, who
is now on the ocean or in England?
. Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir.
Senator Smith. When did he go ?
Mr. Farrell. I do not recall the exact date, but his trip had been
arranged some time before this occurred.
Senator Smith. On what boat did he sail?
Mr. Farrell. I can not tell you that, either. If you wish to know,
I can find out.
Senator Smith. Can you not think of it?
Mr. Farrell. No ; I do not remember.
Senator Smith. What day did he go?
Mr. Farrell. I do not remember the date. It is a matter of rec-
ord in our office. I could find out, if that would interest vou.
Senator Smith. Did he return with any of the White Star officials
or officers ?
Mr. Farrell. No ; he lias not yet returned.
Senator Smith. I mean did he go over with any of those officials?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir.
Senator Smith. And he is still over there?
Mr. Farrell. He is still there.
a r.t-rm ^ -^T-r^ J 9
TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1091
Senator Smith. On matters of his own and not on any business
connected with this affair ?
Mr. Farrell. No; nothing at all. He had made arrangements
some months before to take mis trip — for some busiiiess matter of a
personal nature — and I remember it very distinctly because he had
made the arrangement before I became managing editor.
Senator Smith. What is his name ?
Mr. Farrell. Oliver Gingold.
Senator Smith. This summary which you have handed to the com-
mittee you desire to appear as a part of your testimony ?
^ Mr. Farrell. I would like to nave it appear if you have no objec-
tion. While, as I say, it contains a good deal that is matter of opin-
ion, it seems to me it helps a good deal to explain how some of these
things got so badly, twisted.
The summary referred to^ submitted by Mr. Farrell, will be found
appended to this day's hearing.
Senator Smith. I think I asked you if you knew any person con-
nected with your company in any capacity whatsoever who was in-
terested in the International Mercantile Marine Co. or any of its
constituent companies ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. And you said no ; not so far as you knew ?
Mr. Farrell. Not so lar as I know, and if there were they would
have had nothing to do with any news we published, because I was
responsible for that and I am not a stockholder in any one of them —
in the Western Union, in the Postal Telegraph, or the Marconi. We'
simply published the news that we got from various sources which
we supposed we had reason to rely on.
Senator Smith. Do vou obtain any information for your com-
pany directly through tne wireless telegraph companies?
Mr. Farrell. No ; we do not. We obtain none directly.
Senator Smith. And you did not in this instance ?
Mr. Farrell. No, sir; except one message which one of our re-
porters got from the Marconi Co., and that was direct.
Senator Smith. Do you know of any attempt that was made by
anyone connected with the White Star Co. to mfluence the publica-
tions in your paper?
Mr. Farrell. I know very positively that no such attempt was
made by anyone. I am absolutely certain of it.
Senator Smith. You refer particularly in your testimony to the
Boston News Bureau?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. Do you know what composes the Boston News
Bureau ?
Mr. Farrell. The Boston News Bureau is a news agency for the
dissemination of financial news, operating in Boston. It is somewhat
similar to Dow, Jones & Co., in New York. They publish bulletins
during the day and publish the paper known as tne Boston News
Bureau.
Senator Smith. Are the interests of the two, of your company and
of that company, identical ?
Mr. Farrell. Thev are allied.
Senator Smith. They are allied. Do the same people own both?
Mr. Farrell. Substantially.
1092 *' TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. Is there any understanding or relationship be-
tween your company and the La£fan News Agency?
Mr. Farrell. None ; except that we receive their service.
Senator Smith. You are subscribers?
Mr. Farrell. We are subscribers to their service ; that is all.
Senator Smith. But you do not own any of their stock?
Mr. Farrell. No.
Senator Smith. What is the Laffan News Agency ?
Mr. Farrell. It is a press association which was organized a good
many years ago by the New York Sun.
Senator Smith. By Mr. Laffan himself, or did they adopt his
name as a compliment to him ?
Mr. Farrell. I do not know whether it was organized during Mr.
Laffan's regime on the Sun or before that. I rather think it was
while he was proprietor. It derived its name from him, anyway.
Senator Smith. And their function is to supply news to their sub-
scribers ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. The Boston News Bureau seems to have supplied
your company with information from Montreal — ^with news from
Montreal ?
Mr. Farrell. Yes.
Senator Smith. Have they any special facilities for getting Mon-
treal news ?
. Mr. Farrell. I do not know much about the organization of the
Boston News Bureau, because I have been with Dow, Jones & Co,
only about two months, so that I do not know their special connec-
tions.
Senator Smith. Have you any news agency at Montreal?
Mr. Farrell. We have not. Dow, Jclies & Co. have not.
Senator Smith. Has the Boston News Bureau ?
Mr. Farrell. Do you mean, have they a regular news agency, the
same as in New York and Boston?
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Farrell. No ; not so far as I know. Of course I am not in a
gosition to give positive testimony with reference to the Boston News
iureau.
Senator Smith. So the information you get from Montreal is such
information as goes out generally ?
Mr. Farrell. I shoula assume so.
Senator Smith. And not through direct correspondents of your
own?
Mr. Farrell. They may have a correspondent in Montreal. I do
not know as to that.
Senator Smith. You say that they may have?
Mr. Farrell. They may have.
Senator Smith. Who are the officers of Dow Jones & Co. ?
Mr. Farrell. C W. Barron is president, Hugh Bancroft is sec-
retary, and Joseph Cashman is treasurer.
Senator Smith. Have you given to the committee all the informa-
tion in your possession which will tend to throw any light upon the
Titcmic disaster, and the events subsequent thereto?
Mr. Farrell. I have.
Senator Smith. I am very much obliged to you.
Witness excused.
** TITANIC *' DISASTER. 1093
The Statement Submitted by Mr. Farrell.
Maurice L. Parrell, mnnafiring news editor of Dow, Jones & Co., news agency,
of New York, made the following statement to the Senate subcommittee investi-
gating the Titanic disaster:
Reports published by Dow, Jones & Co. on Monday, April 15, regarding the
Titanic disaster came chiefly from three sources — office of the White Star Line,
the LafTan News Bureau, and the Boston News Bureau. At 8 a. m. on that day,
upon interviewing representatives of the White Star Line in their New York
ofllce. a reporter received information which was summarized on the Dow,
Jones & Co. news ticlcers as follows :
" Oflicers of the White Star Line stated at 8 o'cloclc this morning that pas-
sengers on the Titanic were being taken off in boats and that there was no
danger of loss of life. The Baltic and the Virgininn, they stated, were standing
by to assist in the rescue."
On account of a misconstruction of the expression " standing by." this item
may have given rise to subsequent erroneous reports. To the lay mind ** stand-
ing by " conveyed the meaning that the vessels were in the immediate vicinity,
holding themselves in readiness to render aid. Its use, however, appears to
have been in the technical sense, indicating tliat the vessels had received the
G. Q. D., responded to it, and had headed their course toward the Titanic.
The expression used In Its nautical sense meant response to direction or the
Betting a course toward, rather than being in the immediate presence of the
Titanic.
The statement was cabled to liOndon. and later in the day at least two dis-
patches of similar purjwrt, but different verbiage, were received from different
quarters, and may liave represented merely a return of the same rei)ort from other
parts of the world. In New York they were at the time taken as confirming
the earlier statement made at the White Star office. No one was willing to
believe, and, in fact, at the time could believe, that the Titanic had sunk.
Every scrap of what purported to be news Indicating safety of the passengers
was seized with avidity and rushed by telephone, telegraph, or cable to all
parts of America and Europe. This process doubtless entailed duplication of
the same messages flying back and forth, which was erroneously construed as
confirmatory evidence.
As an example of the misunderstandings arising, I am informed that the
White Star office at Boston called up the Allen Line in Montreal by telephone
to get confirmation of a re|)ort that all Titanic passengers were transferred to
the Virginian and the Titanic was proceeding to Halifax under her own steam.
The Allen Line replied that they had such a statement meaning that they had
heard such a report. The White Star Boston office took this as substantiating
the rumor, and accordingly called up the White Star office In New York con-
firming the message to Vice President Franklin. Doubtless many similar cases
of unintentional errors occurred In the same way, the chances of error, of
course, being Increased as the rei>orts went through different channels.
Senator Smith. I wish to insert in the record a telegram sent on
May 8, 1912, to Mr. P. A. S. Franklin, vice president of the White
Star Line, New York City, and his reply, which are as follows :
Mr. P. A. S. Franklin,
Vive President, White Star Line, \eir York City:
I am very desirous that you should jiscertaln name of i)erson connectetl with
your company who sent telegram to Kei>resentatlve Hughes April !.">, at 7.30
p. m. You were to funiish certain information contniutng names of passengers
and crew sailing on Titanic from Soutluunpton, Cherbourg, and Queenstown.
William Alden Smith.
New York, Mnff S, tOJJ.
Hon William Alukn Smith,
United f^tates Senate, Waxtiinpton. /). (\:
Answering your telegram, as I testified in Washington, we have had our
entire staff of passenger deiuirtment i)olleti and can not lind anybody who admits
or has any knowledge of the sending of the tyiiewrltten telegram addressed to
Representative Hughes and signed White Star Line, supiH)sed to have been
1094 *' TITANIC " DISASTEB.
filed at 7.30 p. m., April 16. I cau not conceive how anybody In this ofSoe
could have sent that telegram af that time, as they were all well aware that
the worst had happened to the Titanic, but we had at that time at least 50 clerks
in the office doing their utmost to satisfy the public. Am mailing you to-
morrow statement giving names of first, second, and third class passengers
embarked on Titanic at Southampton, Cherbourg, and Queenstown, with as much
information regarding their address as we have, and have received cable advices
from Southampton that they have forwarded to us a complete list of the mem-
bers of crew, which will send you immediately received, hope latt^ part of this
week. Is there any further information that I can furnish you?
P. A. S. Franklin, Vice President.
I desire also printed in the record an aflSdavit from James A*
Hosey, received by me in Washington, D. C, on May 7, 1912.
The affidavit referred to is as follows :
Taunton, Mass., May 6, 19 li.
While engaged in my routine at Taunton, Mass., as a telegrapher, on Monday
morning, April 15, 1912, I received a fiash message over the land wires, t>etwcen
the hours of 8 and 11, stating Titanic sunk. A little later, probably 5 or 10
minutes, I received a " kill " on this flash, which read, to the best of my
memory :
" Kill fiash Titanic sunk. Montreal says the wireless operator at Cape Race
made a mistake in reading wireless signals."
James A. Hosrr.
Taunton, Mass., May 6, 1912,
Ck)MMON WEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, BRISTOL, 88:
Then personally appeared the above James A. Hosey and made oath before me
that the above statement was true.
[SEAL.] Frank B. Fox, Xotary Public.
Senator Smith. I have received also a letter from the vice consul
at Toronto, Canada, addressed to me, inclosing an affidavit made by
Dr. F. C. Quitzrau, which I wish printed in the record.
The affidavit is as follows:
Dominion of Canada, Province of Ontario, City of Toronto:
Dr. F. C. Quitzrau, being first duly sworn, deposes and says that he was a
passenger, traveling second class, on steamer Mount Tnnple, which left Ant-
werp April 3, 1912 ; that about midnight Sunday, April 14, New York time, he
was awakened by the sudden stopping of the engines; ihat he Immediately
went to the cabin, where were already gathered several of the stewards and
passengers, who informed him that word had been received by wireless from
the Titanic that the Titanic had struck an iceberg and was calling for help.
Orders were immediately given and the Mount Temple course changed, heading
straight for the Titanic. About 3 o'clock New York time, 2 o'clock ship time,
the Titanic was sighted by some of the officers and crew; that as soon as the
Titanic was seen all lights on the Mount Temple were put out and the engines
stopped and the boat lay dead for about two hours; that as soon as day broke
the engines were started and the Mount Temple circled the Titanic's position,
the officers insisting that this be done, although the captain had given orders
that the boat proceed on its journey. While encircling the Titanic*8 position
we sighted the Frankfort to the northwest of us, the Birma to the south, speak-
to both of these by wireless, the latter asking if we were in distress; that
about 6 o'clock we saw the Carpathia, from which we had previously received
a message that the Titanic had gone down ; that about 8.30 the Carpathia wire-
lessed that it had picked up 20 lifeboats and about 720 passengers all told,
and that there was no need for the Mount Temple to stand by, as the remainder
of those on board were drowned.
Dr. F. C. Quitzrau.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 29th day of April, 1912.
[SEAL.] William James Blliott,
Xotary Public for the Province of Ontario.
'* TITANIC '* DISASTEB. 1095
Senator Smith. I also received the following affidavit made by
A. H. Weikman, who was a barber on the Tifanic^ which covers his
observations :
April 24, 1912.
Mr. A. H. Weikman:
I certify that my occupation on the Titanic was Imown as the saloon
barber. I was sitting in my barber shop on Sunday night, April 14, 1912,
at 11.40 p. m., when the collision occurred. I went forward to the steer-
age on " G " deck and saw one of the baggage-masters, and he told me
fcbat water was coming in in the baggage room on the deck below. I think
the baggageman's name was Bessant. I then went upstairs and met Mr.
Andrews, the "builder,'* and he was giving instructions to get the steerage
passengers " on deck." I proceetled along " E " deck to my room on " C " deck.
I went on the maifi deck and saw some ice laying there. Orders were given,
"All hands to man the lifeboats, also to put on life belts." Who gave the
orders? " Mr. Dodd. second steward."
I helped to launch the boatK and there seemed to be a shortage of women.
When I was on " E " deck I met the captain returning from ** G " deck, who
had been there with Mr. Andrews, and the captain was on the bridge at that
time. I did not think there was any danger. What happened after the orders
were given? Instructions were given to get the passengers into life belts
and pet on deck from all the staterooms. Did you see Mr. Ismay? Yes. I
saw Mr. Ismay helping to load the boats. I>id you see him get in a boat?
yes; he got in along with Mr. Carter, because there were no women in the
vicinity of the boat. This boat was the last to leave, to the best of my knowl-
edge. He was ordered into the boat by the officer in charge. I think that Mr.
Ismay was Justified in leaving in that boat at that time.
I was proceeding to launch the next boat when the ship suddenly sank at
the bow and there was a rush of water that washed me overboard, and there-
fore 1^ boat was not launched by human hands. The men were trying to pull
up the sides when the rush of water came, and that was the last moment it was
possible to launch any more boats, because the ship was at an angle that it
was impossible for anybody to remain on deck. State further what you know
about the case. After I was washed overboard I started to swim, when there
was a pile of ropes fell upon me. and I managed to get clear of these and
started to swim for some dark object in the water. It was dark. This was
about 1.50 a. m.. toward the stem. How do you know it was 1.50 a. m.?
Because my watch was stopped at that time by the water. Did you hear any
noise? Yes; I was about 15 feet away from the ship when I heard a second
explosion. What caused the explosion? I think the boilers blew up about in
the middle of the ship. The explosion blew me along with a wall of water
toward the dark object I was swimming to, which proved to be a bundle of
deck chairs, which I managed to climb on. While on the chairs I heard
terrible groans and cries coming from people in the water. Was it possible
to help them? No; it was not. The lifeboats were too far away. Do you
think if the lifeboats were nearer they could render any assistance? Yes; had
the lifeboats remained close to the Titanic they could have taken 10 to 15 or
maybe 20 more passengers in each boat. There was a great number of people
killed by the explosion, and there was a great number that managed to get
far enough away that the explosion did not injure them, and these are the
people that I think could have been saved had the lifeboats been closer. Did
yon see the ship go down? I mean the TitaiUc, Yes; I was afloat on some
chairs about 100 feet away, looking toward the ship. I seen her sink. Did
you feel any suction? No; but there was some waves come toward me caused
by the ship going down, and not enough to knock toe off of the chairs. How
many lifeboats were there on the Titanic? About 18 or 20 and four collapsible
boats, and the best equipment possible to put on a ship. Do you think there
was enough lifeboats? No. Do you know anything about the water-tight
doors? Yes ; she had self-closing doors of the latest type, and they all worked,
to the beet of my knowledge. How fast was she going when she struck the
IcAerg? I think about 20 knots per hour. I was told by Mr. Ismay that
she was limited to 75 revolutions several days before.
A. H. Weikman.
Subscribed and sworn to this 24th day of April, A. D. 1012.
Bd. O'Donnell.
1096 *^ TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Senator Smith. I have also a statement from Officer Lowe, of the
Titanic, which I have been requested to put into the record. Thi>'
comes to me through the Italian ambassador and contains an ex-
Elanation by Mr. Lowe of the testimony which he gave that he fired
is gun, as his boat was being lowered into the water, because of the
glaring eyes of Italian immigrants, who he was afraid menaced his
safety in lowering the lifeboat. Mr. Lowe wants this statement to
go into the record, and the Italian ambassador wants it to go in.
The statement referred to is as follows:
Tbis is to certify that I, Harold Godfrey Ijowe, of PeiiraHt Barmouth, fifth
officer of the late steamship Titanic, In my testimony at the Senate of the Uiiit«l
States stated that I fired shots to prevent Italian immigrants from JnmiJing
Into my lifeboat.
I do hereby cancel the word '* Italian " and substitute the words " immi-
grants belonging to Latin races." In fact, I did not mean to infer that they
were especially Italians, because I could only Judge from their general ap-
pearance and complexion, and therefore I only meant to imply that they were
of the types of the Latin races. In any case, I did not intend to cast any
reflection on the Italian nation.
This is the real truth, and therefore I feel honored to give out the present
statement.
H. G. I/O WE,
Fifth Officer late ** Titanicr
Washington. D. C, ApHl 30, 1912.
jOn the n»v«*r»o.j
The declaration ou the other side was made and confirmed this day by Harold
Cvodfrey Lowe, fifth oflicer of the late steamship Titanic, in my presence and
In tlie presence of Signor Guido di Vlnceuzo, secretary of the legal office of Uie
royal embassy.
Washington, this 30th day of A|)ril, 11)12.
The Royal Ambassador of Italy,
[SEAL.] CUSANI.
The Secrktary of the Lkgal Office of the Royal Bmbassy.
G. DI ViNCENZO.
Senator Sjiith. I have alj-o an affidavit, filed at my I'equest, of Mrs.
Mahala D. Douglas, of Minneapolis, Minn. I interrogated Mr-.
Douglas in New York after the arrival of the Carpathla. Her grief
was so great over the loss of her husband that I concluded not to
attempt to take her testimony at that time. On the 2d day of May,
at my request, she made an affidavit, and T present it for the record.
Her husband's name was Walter D. Douglas, but she has signed the
affidavit as Mahala D. Douglas.
The affidavit of Mrs. Douglas is as follows :
We left Cherbourg late im aocouut of trouble at Southampton, but ouve off,
every tbiug seenie*! to go |)erft»c»tly. The boat was so luxurioua so stead.v. po
immense, and such a marvel of mec'hanisin tliat one could not believe he was ou
a boat — ^aml there the danger lay. We had smooth seas, clear, starlit nights,
fresh favoring winds; nothing to mar our i^lensure.
On Saturday, as Mr. l>ouglas and I were walking forward, we ssiw a seaman
taking the temperature of the water. The det'k seemed so high above the s«i
I was Interested to know if the tiny i»ail could reach it. There was quite a
breeze, and althcmgh the pall was weighted, it did not. This I watched from
the open window of the covereil deck. Drawing up the pail the seaman filled
it with water from the stand pii)e, placed the thermometer In it» and went with
it to the officer in charge.
On Sunday we had a delightful daj-: everyone in the i)est of si>irits; the lime
the boat was making was considered very goml. and all were interesteil in getting
" TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1097
into New York early. We dined In the reKtnurant, going in about S o'clock.
We found the people dining, as follows:
(See sketch of dining room.)
As far as I have been able to learn, not a ninn in that room; all those who
served, from the head steward down, including Mr. Gattie, In charge; the musi-
cians who played in the corridor outside, and all the guests were lost except
Sir Cosmo Gordon Duff, Mr. Carter, and Mr. Isnuiy. All stories of excessive
gaiety are, to my mind, absolutely unfounded. We did not leave the tables
until most of the others had left, including .Mr. Ismay, Mr. and Mrs. Widener,
and their guests, and the evening was passeil very quietly. As we went to our
stateroom — C-S6 — we both remarked tlnit the boat was going faster than she
ever had. The vibration as one passed the stairway in the center was very
noticeable. The shock of the collision was not great to us; the engines stopped,
then went on for a few moments, then 8topi)e<i again. We waited some
little time, Mr. Douglas reassuring me that there was no danger before going
out of the cabin. But later Mr. Douglas went out to see what had happened,
and I put on my heavy boots and fur coat to go up on deck later. I waited
in the corridor to see or hear what I could. We received no orders; no one
knocked at our door; we saw no otflcers nor .stewards — no one to give an order
or answer our questions. As I waited for Mr. Douglas to return I went back
to speak to my maid, who was in the same cabin as Mrs. Carter's maid. Now
people commenced to appear with life preservers, and I heard from some one
that the order had been given to put them on. I took three from our cabin,
gave one to the maid, telling her to get off in the small boat when her turn
came. Mr. Douglas met me as I was going up to tind him and asked, jestingly,
what I was doing with those life preservers. He did not think even then that
the accident was serious. We both put them on. however, and went ui) on the
boat deck. Mr. Douglas told me if I waited we might t>oth go together, and
we stood there waiting. We heard that the l>oat was in communication with
three other boats by wireless; we watched the distress rockets sent off — they
rose high in the air and burst.
No one seemed excited. Finally, as we stood by a collapsible boat lying on
the deck and an emergency boat swinging from the davits was being tilled, it
was decided I should go. Mr. Boxhall was trying to get tlie boat off, and called
to the captain on the bridge, *' There's a l)oat coming up over there." The caj)-
tain said. *' I want a megaphone." Just before we got into the boat the captain
called. "How many of the crew are in that boatV (Jet out of there, every man
of you " ; and I can see a solid row of men, from l)ow to stern, crawl over on
to the deck. We women then got in. I asked Mr. Douglas to come with me,
but he replied, "No; I must be a gentleman." turning away. I said, "Try and
get off with Mr. Moore and Maj. Butt. They will surely make it." Maj. Butt
and Clarence Moore were standing together near us, also Mr. Meyer, and I re-
member seeing Mr. Ryerson's face in the crowd. There were many people
about. I got into the boat and sat under the seats on the l)ottom, just under
the tiller. Mr. Boxhall had difficulty about getting the boat loose and called
for a knife. We finally were launcheil. Mrs. Appleton and a man from the
steerage faced me. Mrs. Appleton's sister was back to me. and on the s<Mit
with her, the officer. Mr. Boxhall tried to have us count in order to find the
number in the boat, but he did not succeed in getting any higher than 10, as so
many did not sjieak English — I think there were IH or 2«). There was one
other meml)er of the crew. The rowing was very difficult, for no one knew how.
I tried to steer, imder Mr. Boxhall's orders, and he put the lantern — an old
one. with very little light in it — on a pole which I held up for some time. Mr.
Boxhall got away from the ship and we stopi)e<i for a time. Several times we
6topi)ed rowing to listen for the lapping of the water against the icebergs. In
an incredibly sht^rt space of time, it seemetl to me, the boat sjiuk. I heard
no explosion. I watched the boat go down, and the last picture to my mind is
the Inunense mass of black against the star-lit sky, and then — nothingness.
Mrs. Appleton and some of the other women had been rowing and did row
all of the time. Mr. Boxhall had charge of the signal lights on the Titanw, and
he had put In the emergency boat a tin box of green lights, like rockets. These
he commenced to send off at intervals, and very quickly we saw the lights of
the CnrfMthia, the captain of which stated he saw our green lights 10 miles
away, and, of course, steered directly to us. so ye were the first boat to arrive
at the Carpathia.
1098 ** TITANIC '' DISASTBB.
When we pulled alongside Mr. Boxliall called out " Shut down your en^lnee
and take ub aboard. I have only one sailor." At this point I called out, " The
Titanic has gone down with everyone on board," and Mr. Boxhall told me to
"shut up." This Is not told In criticism; I think he was i)erfectly right.
We cllnib<»d a rope ladder to the upper deck of the Carpathia. I at once asked
the chief steward, who met us, to take the news to the captain. He said the
officer was already with him.
The history of our wonderful treatment on the Carpathia Is known to the
world.* It has been underestimated.
We reached the Carpathia at 4.10, and I believe by 10 o'clock all of the boats
had been accounted for. We sailed away, leaving the California to cruise about
the scene. We circled the point where the Titanic had gone down, and I saw
nothing except quantities of cork, loose cork floating in the current, like a
stream — nothing else.
In the nftornoon I sent n brief Marconlgram with the news that Mr. Douglas
was among the missing. I went myself to the purser several times every day,
and others also made inquiries for me in regard to it, but it was not sent
We heard many stories of the rescue from many sources. These I tried to
keep in my mind clearly, as they seemed important Among them I will quote
Mrs. Ryerson, of Philadelphia. This story was told In the presence of Mrs.
Meyers, of New York, and others.
(Mrs. Hyerson speaking.) "Sunday afternoon Mr. Ismay, whom I know
very slightly, passed me on the deck. He showed me, in his brusque manner,
a marconlgram, saying. ' We have just had news that we are in the icebergs,'
*Of course, you will slow down,* I said. 'Oh, no'; he replied, "we will put
on more boilers and get out of it' "
An Englishwoman, who was going to her sons in Dakota, told me : " I was in
a boat with 5 women and 50 men — they had been picked up from the London
unemploye<1 to fill out the crew. They would not row, told frightful stories to
alarm the women, and when the Carpathia was sighted, said : ' We are jolly
lucky. No work to-night ; nothing to do but smoke and yam. Back in T»ndon
next week with the unemployed.' "
The hiKtor>' of the quartermaster's conduct was told by many women ; his
brutality Is known. His Inefficiency is shown by his asking '* Is that a buoy? "
when they were our in the small boat on the ocean.
Ma J. Peuchen came to me just before landing in New York with Mr. Seattle,
of the London Times. They asked me to repeat some things I had said, which
I did. They took my address. Maj. Peuchen said, " I have just been called
up (I took this to mean before the officers of the Titanic) and asked what I
meant by getting testimony and stirring up the passengers." I replied, " You
have not answered my questions: I will not answer jours."
All the women told of insufficient seamen to man the boats; all women rowed ;
some had to bail water from their boats. Mrs. Smith was told to watch a
cork in her boat, and if it came out to put her finger in place of it
When \% e arrived in New York the crew of the Titanic was ordered to get off
in the lifeboats before we could dock.
I sat in a deck chair and listened and looked. The unseamanlike way of
going at their simple tasks without excitement showed me more plainly than any-
thing I had seen or heard the inefficiency of the crew, and accounted, in some
measure, for the number of the crew saved and the unfilled lifeboats. A passen-
ger on the Carpathia also spoke to me of this.
Mr. IJirhtollor and Mr. Boxhall were extremely courteous and kind on board
the Curpnihia. I think them both capable seamen and gentlemen.
Mahala D. Douglas.
Subscribed and sworn to before me, a notary public in and*for the county of
Hennepin. State of Minnesota, this 2d day of May, 1912, at Minneapolis, Minn.
[SEAL.1 A. F. Berolitnd,
Notary PuhJic, Hennepin County , Minn.
My commission expires May 28, 1917.
At 5.50 O'clock p. ni. the taking of testimony before Senator Smith
was adjourned.
*' TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1099
THTJBSDAY, MAY 16, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee of Commerce,
United States Senate,
Washington^ D, C.
Testimony Taken Before Senator Wiluam Aldbn Smith, Chair-
man OF THE Subcommittee, Sitting Separately.
TOBSTIMONT OF MB. BEVTAHIN CAHPBEIL.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
Senator Smith. Please give me your full name.
Mr. Campbell. Benjamin Campbell.
Senator Smith. What is your place of residence ?
Mr. Campbell. New Haven, Conn.
Senator Smith. What is your business?
Mr. Campbell. Vice president in charge of traffic of the New
York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Co.
Senator Smith. In that capacity did you have an interview or
correspondence with Vice President Franklin, of the International
Mercantile Marine Co., on the 15th day of April last?
Mr. Campbell. I did. If it is agreeable, I will make a con-
tinuous statement of what occurred.
Senator Smith. Do so, please.
Mr. Campbell. Mr. Franklin called me on the telephone between
11 and 11.30 o'clock a. m. Monday, the 15th, asking if we would
arrange to send sufficient equipment to Halifax to take the Titanic'a
passengers to New York, which should arrive there some time
Wednesday. He stated there were 325 first-class, 285 second-class,
and 710 third-class passengers. I told him I would take the matter
up promptly and make the arrangement. I was in New Haven and
he in New York.
I hung up the phone, then conferred with our transportation de-
partment, and we arranged to assemble sufficient equipment at Bos«
ton, consisting of 23 sleeping cars, 2 dining cars, and an indefinite
number of coaches and baggage cars, but ample to take care of the
business.
At 1.10 o'clock p. m. I called up Mr. Franklin on the telephone. I
told him what we had done ; that the equipment and trains would be
ready to leave Boston at 5 or 6 o'clock that evening; and it would
take about 24 hours to make the trip to Halifax, so that they would
arrive there Tuesday evening.
I then asked him if we should collect fares from the passengers
and for their meals, or whether we should make bill against the
White Star Line. He replied that he would let me know later in the
afternoon.
So at 4.30 o'clock that same afternoon I got in touch with him
and he said yes; that he desired the bill made against the White
Star Line.
At 6.40 o'clock p. m. I took the train for Boston— at New Haven.
On arrival at New London, an hour later, I received a telegram
1100 TITANIC ' DISASTER.
from Master of Transportation Halliday, stating that the Titanic
had sunk and that the equipment would not be required. Some of it
had started from Boston and gone a short distance out on the Bostcm
& Maine.
Upon inquiry, I learned that Mr. Halliday obtained his informa-
tion from the agent of the White Star Line in Boston about 7 o'clock.
Mr. Horn, vice president of the New Haven Co., in charge of
operation, communicated with Mr. Franklin at 7.30 o'clock p. m.
Monday and had confirmation of the report from Mr. Halliday.
As a result of the conversation with Mr. Franklin I sent a tele-
gram at 2 o'clock p. m. Monday, the 15th, to Mr. Bosworth, vice
president of the Canadian Pacific Railway, at Montreal ; Mr. Tiffin,
general traffic manager of the Intercolonial Railway, at Monct<Mi,
which I will read and leave with you if you like.
Senator Smith. Yes.
Mr. Campbell (reading) :
Passengers from the steamer Titanic are transferring at sea and are due to
arrive in Halifax some time Wednesday. Tliere will be 32.^ first class. 285 sec-
ond class, all for New York and requiring sleeper accommodations: also 710
third class, a i)ortion of which are for Canada.
This comimny has at Boston ready for immediate delivery 23 sleeping; cars
with a capacity of (532 passengers; also two dining cars and as many co«ch«»s
and baggage cars as may be required and can furnish motive power if desired.
Please advise how much of this equipment we shall deliver to the Boston A
Maine for delivery to you at Vanceboro, running sfiecial.
Vice President Horn has wired your manager, also the Intercolonial people,
full particulars.
That was sent, as I say, at 2 o'clock p. m. At 4.35 o'clock p. m.,
after my third conversation with Mr. Franklin, I sent this telegram
to Mr. Tiffin, general traffic manager of the Intercolonial Railway:
to Mr. Bosworth, vice president of the Canadian Pacific Railway; to
Mr. Berry, vice president of the Boston & Maine Railroad: and to
Mr. Hobbs, vice president of the Maine Central Railroad :
^'ice President Franklin, of White Star Line, advises TitatiM'^n imssengers
will land at Halifax Wednesday. He authorizes that railroad furnish pe»-
sen^ers with tickets and meals and the first and second class passengers with
sleepiuK-car accommodations, rendering bill against his company and not make
collection from imssengers direct.
Mr. Mitchell, agent White Star liine, Montreal, left to-day for Halifax, and he,
no doubt, will have full authority.
Senator Smith. By whom is that signed?
Mr. Campbell. That is signed by me, Benjamin Campl)ell.
At the ch>se of the last convei*sation with Mr. Franiclin, at 4.30
o'clock p. m. Monday, I asked him if he would confirm the arrange-
ment by letter, which he did; and I have here a copy, dated New
York, April 15, 1912, the day I had the conversation, and it was
written after 4.80 o'clock p. m. on that day, addressed to me:
(^onfiruiiug our couvorsatkm over the telephone to-day, this is to advise you
that we shall be glad if you will bill us for the trans|)ortation of all the
Tit aniens passeugers to whom you give passage from Halifax to New York, or
any iutennediate i)oint, and for all the meals of the imssengers en route.
We understood from our conversation with you that you were providing
SO sleeping cars and 3 dining cars for the first and second class passengers,
numbering approximately 010, and a sufficient number of day coaches for 710
third-class i)assenger8, and a sufficient number of ba^age ears for all classes.
We take this oi)i>ortunity of expressing to you our sincere appreciation of
the efforts you have made to assist us in our difficulties under these very ex-
ceptional circumstances, and we ask you to accept our thanks for all that you
have done In our behalf.
<< prrrm^<»>«^ M
TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1101
That is signed by Mr. Franklin.
That is the story.
Senator Smith. \Vhat was the capacity of the 23 sleepers?
Mr. Campbell. The capacity was 623 passengers. We afterwards
added 10 sleepers, later in the evening, so that we had 33 sleepers
to go forward.
Senator Smith. Have you any means of knowing the time of day
when this letter from Mr. Franklin was sent to you ?
Mr. Campbell. It could not have been written by him until after
4.30 o'clock p. m. Monday, the 15th, because it was at that hour that
I requested him to confirm the conversation or understanding or
arrangement that we had by telephone.
Senator Smith. In any conversation that you had with Mr. Frank-
lin did you understand that the Titanic had sunk; I mean in any
conversation which you had on Monday did you understand that the
Titanic had sunk, up to the receipt of the information from the agent
of that company in Boston?
Mr. Campbell. No, sir. Quite the contrary, I supposed that the
Titanic was afloat. The thought that passed through my mind
when I had the conversation with Mr. Franklin was that the Titanic
was disabled and that the passengers were being transferred at sea
as a measure of safety ; as a measure of precaution.
Senator Smith. Did you know from any other source the actual
condition of the Titanic?
Mr. Campbell. I did not know anything of the kind until I got
that telegram at New London, at 7.40 o'clock p. m. That is the first
information that I had of the sinking of the ship.
Senator Smith. You heard nothing through the Canadian Pacific
officials ?
Mr. Campbell. No, sir.
Senator Smith. In any commimication with them?
Mr. Campbell. No, sir; in no source whatsoever.
Senator Smith. Were the Canadian Pacific officials, with whom
you communicated, at .Montreal ?
Mr. Campbell. Yes, sir; at Montreal, Mr. Bosworth's head'
quarters.
Senator Smith. And the only information that you received from
him is contained in this statement you have just made?
Mr. Campbell. I did not receive any information from Mr. Bos-
worth, except an acfaiowledgment of tne telegram stating that they
had plenty of equipment to provide for the passengers. That tele-
gram reached me on Tuesday, however, after our equipment had
been returned.
Senator Smith. Is that all you know about the matter ?
Mr. Campbell. Absolutely everything, sir, except what I have seen
in the papers.
Senator Smith. I think that is all.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. I desire to have printed in the record two tele-
grams, both dated New Haven, Conn., April 15, 1912, and signed
by Mr. B. Campbell; and one telegram, dated New York, April 15,
1912, addressed to Mr. B. Campbell, vice president New Haven &
Hartford Railroad Co., New Haven, Conn., signed by P. A. S.
Franklin.
1102 TITANIC ' DISASTER.
The telegrams referred to are as follows :
New Haven, Conn., AprU 15, 1912. 2 p. m.
Mr. G. M. BoswoBTH, F. P. Canadian Padftc Ry,, Montreal, P. Q.
Mr. E. Tiffin, G. T, M. Intercolonial Ry,, Moncton, N. B.
Pasflengers from the steamer Titanic are transferring at sea, and are due
to arrive In Halifax some time Wednesday. There will be 325 first class, 285
second class, all for New York, and requiring sleeper accommodations; also
710 third class, a portion of which are for Canada.
This company has at Boston, ready for immediate delivery, 23 sleeping cars,
with a capacity of 632 passengers; also two dining cars and as many coachea
and baggage cars as may be required, and can furnish motive power if desired.
Please advise how much of this equipment we shall deliver to the Boston &
Maine for delivery to you at Yanceboro, running special.
Vice President Horn has wired your manager, also the Intercolonial people,
full particulars.
B. Campbell.
New Haven, Conn., April 15, 1912 — 4^5 p. wu
Mr. E. Tiffin, General Traffic Manager Intercolonial Ry,
Mr. G. M. Bos WORTH, Vice President Canadian Pacific Ry.
Mr. W. F. Bkbrt, Vice President Boston d Maine R. R.
Mr. G. S. HoBBS, Vice President Maine Central R, R,
Vice President Franklin, of White Star Line, advises Titanic's pass^igers
will land at Halifax Wednesday. He authorizes that railroads furnish passen-
gers with tickets and meals and the first and second class passengers with
sleeping-car accommodations, rendering bill against his company and not make
collection from passengers direct.
Mr. Mitchell, agent White Star Line, Montreal, left to^ay for Halifax, and
he no doubt will have full authority.
B. Camfbkix.
International Mercantile Marine Co.,
Office of the Vice President,
9 Broadway, New York, AprU 15, 1912.
B. Campbell, Esq.,
Vice President New York, New Haven d Hartford R. R. Co.,
. New Haven, Conn,
Dear Sir: Confirming our conversation over the telephone ^to-day, this la to
advise you that we shall be glad if you will bill us for the transportation of all
the Titanic's passengers to whom you give passage from Halifax to New York
or any intermediate point and for all the meals of the passengers en rente.
We understood from our conversation with you that you were providing 30
sleeping cars and 3 dining cars for the first and second class passengers, num-
bering approximately 610, and a sufficient number of day coaches for 710 third-
class passengers, and n sufficient number of baggage cars for all classes.
We take this opportunity of expressing to you our idncere appreciation of
the efforts you have made to assist us in our difficulties under these very ex-
ceptional circumstances, and we ask you to accept our thanks for all that you
have done in our behalf.
Yours, very truly, P. A. S. Franklin,
Vice President.
Senator Smith. I desire printed in the record also an affidavit re-
ceived by me made by Mrs. E. B. Ryerson, of Chicago, 111.
The affidavit referred to is as follows :
State of New York, County of Otsego, ss:
Emily Borle Ryerson, being duly sworn, deposes and says, I reside in the city
of Chicago, 111. I was a passenger on the steamship Titanic on April 14, 1912.
At the time of collision I was awake and heard the engines stop, but felt no Jar.
My husband was asleep, so I rang and asked the steward. Bishop, what was
'* TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1103
the matter. He said, " There is tails of an iceberg, ma*am, and they have
stopped, not to run into it/' I told him to keep me informed if there were any
orders. It was bitterly cold, so I put on a warm wrapi)er and looked out the
window (we were in the large cabins on the B deck, very far aft) and saw
the stars shining and a calm sea, but heard no noise. It was 12 o'clock. After
about 10 minutes I went out in the corridor, and saw far off people hurrying
on deck. A passenger ran by and called out, "Put ou your life bel.s and come
up on the boat deck." I said, " Where did you get those orders? " He said,
" From the captain." I went back then and told Miss Buwen and my daughter,
who were in the next room, to dress immediately, roused my husband and the
two younger children, who were in a room on the other side, and then remem-
bered my maid, who had a room near us. Her door was locked and I had some
difficulty in waking her. By this time my husband was fully dressed, and we
could hear the noise of feet tramping on the deck overhead.*' He was quite
calm and cheerful and helped me put the life belts on the children and on my
maid. I was paralyzed with fear of not all getting on deck together in time,
as there were seven of us. I would not let my younger daughter dress, but she
only put on a fur coat, as I did over her nightgown. My husband cauiioned us
all to keep together, and we went up to A deck, where we found quite a group
of people we knew^. Everyone had on a life belt, and they all were very quiet
and self-possessed.
We stood about there for quite a long time — fully half an hour, I should
say. I know my maid ran down to the cabin and got some of my clothes.
Then we were ordered to the boat deck. I only remember the second steward
at the head of the stairs, who told us where to go. My chief thought and that
of everyone else was, I know, not to make a fuss and to do as we were told.
My hui^and Joked with some of the women he knew, and I heard him say,
'* Don't you hear the band playing? " I begged him to let me stay with him,
but he said, ** You must obey orders. When they say, * Women and children
to the boats ' you must go when your turn comes. I'll stay with John Thayer.
We will be all right. You take a boat going to New York." This referred
to the belief that there was a circle of ships around waiting. The Olympic,
the BaliiCy were some of the names I heard. All this time we could hear the
rockets going up — signals of distress. Again, we were ordered down to A
deck, which was partly inclosed. We saw people getting into boats, but waited
our turn. There was a rough sort of steps constructed to get up to the window.
My boy. Jack, was with me. An officer at the window said, ''That boy can't
go." My husband stepped forward and said, "Of course, that boy goes with
his mother ; he is only 13." So they let him pas& They also said, " No more
boys." I turned and kissed my husband, and as we left he and the other
men I knew — Mr. Thayer, Mr. Wldener, and others — ^were all standing there
together very quietly. The decks were lighted, and as you went through the
window it was as if you stepped out into the dark. We were flung into the
boats. There were two men — an officer inside and a sailor outside — to help us.
I fell on top oik the women who were already in the boat, and scrambled to the
bow with my eldest daughter. Miss Bowen and my boy were in the stem
and my second daughter was in the middle of the boat with my maid. Mrs.
Thayer, Mrs. Widener, Mrs. Astor, and Miss Eustis were the only others I
knew in our boat.
Presently an officer called out from the upper deck, ** How many women are
there in that boat?" Someone answered, "Twenty-four." "That's enough;
lower away."
The ropes seemed to stick at one end and the boat tlpi^ed, some one called
for a knife, but it was not needed until we got into the water, as it was but a
short distance, and I then realized for the first time how far the ship had
sunk. The deck we left was only about 20 feet from the sea. I could see all
the portholes open and water washing in, and the decks still lighted. Then
they called out, " How many seamen have you," and they answered one. " That
is not enough," said the officer, " I will send you another," and he sent a sailor
down the rope. In a few minutes after several other men not sailors came down
the roi)es over the davits and dropi)ed into our boat. The order was iriven to
pull away, then they rowed off — the sailors, the women, anyone — but made
little progress; there was a confusion of orders: we rowed toward the stern,
some one shouted something about a gangway, and no one seemed to know
what to do. Barrels and chairs were being thrown overboard. Then suddenly,
when we still seemed very near, we saw the ship was sinking rapidly. I was
in the bow of the boat with my daughter and turned to see the great ship
1104 ** TITANIC " DISASTER.
take a plunge toward the bow, tbe two forward funnelg seemed to lean and
then she seemed to break In half as if cut with a knife, and as the bow went
under the lights went out ; the stern stood up for several minutes, black against
the stars, and then that, too, plunged down, and there was no sound for wh;it
seemed like hours, and then began the cries for help of i>eople drowning all
around us, which seemed to go on forever. Some one called out, "Pull for
your lives, or you'll be sucked under," and everyone that could rowed like
mad, I could see my younger daughter and Mrs. Thayer and Mrs. Astor rowing,
but there seemed to be no suction. Then we turned to pick up some of those
In the water. Some of the women protested, but others persistetl. and we
dragged in six or seven men; the men we rescued were principally strikers,
stewards, sailors, etc., and were so chilled and frozen already they could hardly
move. Two of them died In the stern later and many were raving and
moaning and delirious most of the time. We had no lights or eomiKisi*.
There were several babies in the boat, but there was no milk or water. (I
believe these were all stowed away somewhere, but no one knew where, and
as the bottom of the boat was full of water and the boat full of people it was
very difficult to find anything. )
After the Titanic sank we saw no lights, and no one seemed to know what
direction to take. Lowe, the officer in charge of the boat, had called out
earlier for i^ll to tie together, so we now heard his whistle, arid as soon as we
could make out the other boats In the dark, five of us were tletl together, and
we drifted about without rowing, as the sea was calm, waiting for the dawn.
It was very cold, and soon a breeze sprang up, and It was hard to keep our
heavy boat bow on ; but as the cries died down we could see dimly what st^uied
to be a raft with about 20 men standing on it. back to back. It was the over-
turned boat; and as the sailors on our boat said we could still carry 8 or 10
more i)eople. we called for another boat to volunteer and go to rescue them.
So we two cut loose our painters and between us got all the men off. They were
nearly gone and could not have held out much longer. Then, when the sun
rose we saw the Carpathia standing up about 5 miles away, and for the first
time saw the icebergs all around us. The Carpathia steamed toward us until
It was full daylight; then she stopped and began picking up boats, and we
got on board about 8 o'clock. Very soon after we got on board they took a
complete list of the names of all survivors. The kindness and the efficlence
of all the arrangements on the Carpathia for our comfort can never be too
highly praised.
The foregoing affidavit Is made at the request of William Alden Smith, chair-
man of the Senate investigating committee, in relation of the Titanif' disaster.
Emily Borie Ryessok.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 9th day of May, 1912.
Bessie L. W^iles, Notary Public,
State of New York, Otsego County clerk's office, ss:
I, Robert O. Marshall, clerk of the county of Otsego, and alRo clerk of tbe
supreme and county courts of said county, the same l>eing courts of record,
do hereby certify that Bessie L. Wiles, whose name is subscribed to the Jurat
of the annexed affidavit, was, on the day of the date thereof, a notary public
in and for the county of Otsego, dwelling in said county, duly authorised to ad-
minister oaths for general purposes; and that I am well acquainted with the
handwriting of said notary iiublic, and verily believe that the signature to
said Jurat is genuine.
In testimony whereof 1 have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed the
seal of the said county and courts at CJooperstown, this 9th day of May, 1912.
[SEAL.1 Robert O. Marshall, Ck*r«r.
Senator Smith. I offer also to be printed in the record, an affi-
davit made by Daisy Minaham, and also a letter received from her
by me.
The affidavit and letter referred to are as follows :
affidavit at request of SENATOR SMITH.
State of Wisconsin, Wood Coujity, ss:
Daisy Minahan, 'being first duly swoni. upon oath de|x»ses and says: I was
asleep in stateroom C-78: I was awakened by the crying of a woman in the
** TTTAKIO '* DISASTER. 1106
paRsageway. I roused my brother and his wife, and we bepin at once to dresfi.
No one came to give us warning. We spent five minutes in dressing and went
on deck to the port side. The friphtfiil slant of the di'ck toward the bow of the
tvoat gave us our first thought of danger.
An ofllcer came and commanded all women to follow, and he led us to the
boat deck on the starboard side. He told us there was no danger, but to get
into a lifeboat as a precaution only. After making three attempts to get
Into boats, we succeeded in getting into liffeboat No. 14. The crowd surging
around the boats was getting unruly.
Officers were yelling and cursing at men to stand back and let the women
get into the boats. In going from one lifeboat to another we stumbled over
huge piles of bread lying on the deck.
When the lifeboat was filled there were no seamen to man it. The officer
in command of No. 14 called for volunteers in the crowd who could row.
Six men offered to go. At times when we were being lowered we were at an
angle of 45* and expected to be thrown Into the sea. As we reached the level
of each deck men jumped into the boat until the officer threatened to shoot the
next man who Jumped. We landed in the sea and rowed to a safe distance
from the sinking ship. The officer counted our number and found us to be 48.
The officer commanded everyone to feel in the bottom of rhe lK>at for a light.
We found none. Nor was there breiid or water in the boat. The officer, whose
name I learned afterwards to be tx)we, was continually making remarks such
as, "A good song to sing would be. Throw Out the Life Line/* and ** I think
the best thing for you women to do is to take a nap."
nie Titanic was fast sinking. After she went down the cries were horrible.
This was at 2.20 a. m. by a man's watch who stood next to me. At this time
three other boats and ours kept together by being tied to each other. The cries
continued to come over the water. Some of the women implored Officer Lowe,
of No. 14, to divide his passengers among the three other boats and go back
to rescue. His first answer to these requests was, " You ought to be damn glad
you are here and have got your own life." After some time he was persuaded
to do as he was asked. As I came up to him to be transferred to the other
boat he said, " Jump, God damn you, Jump." I had showed no hesitancy and
was waiting only my turn. He had been so blasphemous during the two hours
we were in his boat that the women at my end of the boat all thought he was
under the influence of liquor. Then he took all of the men who had rowed No.
14, together with the men from the other boats, and went back to the scene of
the wreck. We were left with a steward and a stoker to row our boat, which
was crowded. The steward did his best, but the stoker refused at first to row,
but finally helped two women, who were the only ones pulling on that side.
It was Just 4 o'clock when we sighted the Carpathia, and we were three hours
getting to her. On the Carpathia we were treated with every kindness and
given every comfort possible.
A stewardess who had been saved told me that after the Titanic left South-
ampton that there were a number of cari)enters working to put the doors of
the air-tight compartments in working order. They had great difficulty in
making them respond, and one of them remarked that they would be of little
use in case of accident, because it took so long to make them work.
Daisy Minahan.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 13th day of May, 1912.
[SEAL 1 E- ^- WiTTIO,
Notary Puhlic for Wisconsin.
My commission expires October 10, 1915.
Mat 11, 1912.
Hon. Wm. Alden Smith.
Washington^ D. C.
Dear Sib: I have given you my obsenations and exjieriences after the dis-
aster, but want to tell you of what occurred on Sunday night. April 14.
My brother, his wife, and myself went to the caf^ for dinner at about 7.15
p m. (ship's time). When we entered there was a dinner party already dining,
consisting of perhaps a dozen men and three women. Capt. Smith was a guest,
as also were Mr. and Mrs. Widener, Mr. and Mrs. Blair, and MaJ. Butt. Capt.
Smith was continuously with his party from the time we entered until between
40475— PT 13—12 4
1106 ** TITANIC " DISASTBB.
9.25 and 9.45. when he bid the women good night and left. I know this time
poBitively, for at 9.25 my brother suggested my going to bed. We waited for
©ne more piece of the orchestra, and it was between 9.25 and 9.45 (the time
we departed), that (lapt. Smith left.
Sitting within a few feet of this party were also Sir Cosmo and Lady I>aff-
Oordon, a Mrs. Meyers, of New York, and Mrs. Smith, of Virginia. Mr. and
Mrs. Harris also were dining in the caf^ at the same time.
I had read testimony before your committee stating that Capt. SmitJi had
talked to an ofttcer on the bridge from 8.45 to 9.25. This is i)osi lively untrue,
S8 he was having coffee with these people during this time. I was seated so
close to them that I could hear bits of their conversation.
Yours,
Daisy Minahan.
At 10.50 o'clock a. m. the taking of testimony before Senator Smith
was adjourned.
SATTJBDAY, MAY 18, 1912.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce,
United States Senate,
Washington^ D. C,
testimony taken before senator WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, CHAIRMAN
OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE, SITTING SEPARATELY.
TESTIMONY OF CAPT. JOHN J. KNAPP, UNITED STATES NAVY,
HTDBOOBAPHEB, HTDBOOBAPHIC OFFICE, NAVY DEPART-
HENT, WASHINGTON, D. C.
The witness was swom by Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Captain, will you state your name and what offi-
cial position you hola?
Capt. Knpp. John J. Knapp. I am a captain in the United
States Navy. I am the hydrographer of the Bureau of Navigation,
Navy Department, Washington, D. C.
Senator Smith. Will you tell the committee what special branch
af the public service you have in charge ?
Capt. Knapp. I am in charge of the Hydrographic Office, which
is under the Bureau of Navigation of the Navy Department, The
duty of the Hydrographic Office, under the law, is to improve the
means of safe navigation of the seas, for the benefit of the Navy and
the maritime marine, by providing nautical charts, sailing directions,
navigators, and manuals of instruction. In carrying out this duty it
becomes necessary to collect information of all kinds that may affect
the charts of the various seas and harbors of the world, and the sail-
ing directions, which latter are what might be called the guidebooks
of the seas. To accomplish the work above outlined, the Hydro-
graphic Office collects information not only from original surveys
made under its direction, but from the surveys made oy the Coast
and Geodetic Survey of the United States, and from those made
under the supervision or direction of the hydro^aphic offices of the
Governments. In order that the charts and sailing directions may
be at all times accurate, showing the conditions that exist in the
various seas and harbors which in any way affect the navigation
thereof, our office collects from mariners ana those conversant with
a „^r,.^^^^^ M
TITANIC " DISASTER. 1107
•
the sea reports affecting the publications of the office. The office has
vohmtary observers aboard tne seagoing ships of all nations. These
observers report to the office by radiomessages or by letter, and their
reports are scanned and criticized by technical experts, and the in-
formation so gained is given to the Navy and to the merchant marine.
Whenever reports are made which have immediate effect upon the
safety of navigation^ they are given at once to the maritime com-
munity and the public generally and are again flashed out to the sea
by means of racnograms, the latter, as a rule, from the wireless sta-
tions under the control of the Navy Department.
For more than a (juarter of a century the Hydrographic Office of
the Bureau of Navigation, Navy Department, has been publishing
graphically from month to month a series of charts known as the
Pilot Chart of the North Atlantic Ocean, depicting thereon the
physical conditions of the ocean and of the atmosphere for the cur-
rent month, as well as the location of dangers to navigation as re-
ported by incoming ships. A summary of these dangers and a more
detailed description than the space on the pilot chart would permit
was in time given from week to week on a printed sheet known as
the Hydrographic Bulletin. These publications were circulated
freely among the shipmastei's and shipping people in return for their
news" of the sea, the point of contact between the office at Washing-
ton and the marine world being a chain of branch hydrographic offices
at the principal seaports.
Practically all the captains in the trans- Atlantic trade cooperate in
this work by handing in their information upon arrival in port to the
branch hydrographic offices. In recent years the collection of marine
data has been immensely accelerated by the use of radio telegraphy
and the Hydrographic Office is thereby enabled to publish daily in
a so-called daily memorandum whatever important reports of dangers
have been received. This sheet is prepared every afternoon and is
mailed to the branch hydrographic offices and there given publicity
to all concerned. By this means, Boston, New York, Philadelphia,
Baltimore, Norfolk, etc., are daily put in possession of the accumu-
lated reports of dangerous derelicts and icebergs, which have been
edited by experts in this line of work. Thus in the case of the recent
loss of the Titamc^ the shipping companies and shipmasters had been
put in possession of the experience and judgment of a trained staff
in the Hydrographic Office as summarized in a pamphlet printed in
April, 1909, entitled " North Atlantic ice movements,^' giving a study
cf the entire question with diagrams to show the usual limits of ice
for a period or 10 years. More specifically, the shipping community
had been provided from month to month with the pilot chart showing
the conditions of ice up to the time of printing and with the weekly
Hydrographic Bulletin giving all pertinent details in regard to ice
and derelicts and also the daily memorandum summarizing the col-
lected reports of each day.
A trained seaman can and does estimate the probable speed and
direction of drift of any dangerous obstruction, so that if he had
knowledge of the existence of an iceberg or a derelict in a certain
location at a given date he reckons its future position for an interval
of a few days.
Senator Smith. Captain, have you any means of knowing the ice
conditions in the North Atlantic Ocean in the vicinity of the Grand
1108 TITANIC *' DISASTER.
Banks of Newfoundland on the 14th day of April last, or on any pre-
ceding day of that week?
Capt. Knapp. The Hydrographic OflBce, prior to the 14th of April,
was constantly receiving reports of ice in the North Atlantic. Tnese
reports began to come in early in the winter, as the ice moved down
to the eastward of Newfoundland. These ice reports as received, as
heretofore stated, are given out to the maritime world daily, and
prior to the 14th of April, in what is called the Daily Memorandum
issued bv the office, there had been on several days ice so published
that had been reported near the spot of the Titamc disaster.
The April Pilot Chart, which was issued March 28, 1912, showed
that in March ice had come as far south as latitude 44 '^ N. The Daily
Memorandum prior to the 13th instant showed that the trend of ioe
was to the southward, icebergs being sighted below the forty -third
parallel on April 7, 8, 9, and 11 ; on the 9th and 11th it had reached
the forty-second parallel, and on the 11th some of it was seen south
of latitude 42^
The Daily Memorandum of April 15 contains a message from the
steamship Amerika via steamship Titanic and Cape Race, Newfound-
land, April 14, 1912, to the Hydrographic Office, Washington, D. C. :
Amerika has passed two large Icebergs \h 41* 27' N., 50' 8' W., on the 14th
of April. Knuth.
On the morning of the 15th of April, the day following the acci-
dent, the office received a radiogram sent by the steamship Amerika
via the Titanic to Cape Race, and from there forwarded to Washing-
ton, reporting ice in latitude 41° 27' N., longitude 50° 8' W. The
ice so reported was about 19 miles to the southward of where the
Titanic struck.
Senator Smith. Have you the message sent to you by the Amerika
through the steamship Titanic^ to whidi you refer?
Capt. Knapp. Yes. It was as follows:
S. S. "Amerika" via S. S. ** Titanic" and Cape Race, N. F..
April Ik, 191t.
Hydbogbafhic Office, Washington^ D, C:
Amerika passed two large icebergs in 41' 27' X., 50° 8' W., on the 14th of
April. Knuth.
Upon request, the Hamburg- American line, to which line the
steamship Amerika belongs, furnished to the Hydrographic Office
this copy (hereunto appended). As will be seen by a^ reference
thereto, the wireless message was sent from the A^nerika to the
Titanic at 11.45 a. m. (New York time, it is understood) :
Hydboobaphic Office, Washington, D. C:
Amerika passed two large icebergs in 41° 27' N., 50** 8' W., on the 14th of
April. Knuth.
Senator Smith. Captain, will you kindly tell the committee how
extensive this ice flow was, to which you have just referred?
Capt. Knapp. I submit to the committee this chart [Chart No. 1 ] ,
which shows the ice as reported by the various steamers which
passed through those waters at about that time and, in connection
therewith, the following copies of ice reports made by said steamers.
The ice reports referred to are here printed in the record, as
follows :
'* TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1109
Mabine Data fob the United States Hydbooraphic Office.
BEPOBT8 OF WRECKS, DERELICTS, ICE, AND OTHEB OBSTRUCTIONS TO NAVIGATION.
[Cjpy. Pile No. 62008-2995. British 8. S. CaUfomian. Master, Lord. Received in
branch hydrographlc ofllce, Boston, Mass., April 22. Received in Hydrographic Office
April 23.)
April 14, 6.30 p. m., latitude 42.06 N., longitude 49.10 W., sighted two large
icebergs 5 miles south of the above position. At 7.15 p. m.. latitude 42.05 N.,
longitude 49.20 W., two bergs, and 7.30 p. m. two bergs. At 10.20 p. m.,
latitude 42.05 N., longitude 50.07 W., encountered heavy packed field Ice, ex-
tending north and south as for as the eye could see and about 5 miles wide:
also numerous bergs could be seen. From above position until April 15,
2.30 p. m., latitude 41.33 N., longitude 50.42 W., almost continuously in field
ice. At the last position sighted two bergs and cleared the field ice.
[Copy. File No. 63061-2995. From Greek S. S. Afhinai. Master. John Couloniound.
Received in branch hydrographic office. New York, April 25. Forwarded and received
in Hydrographlc Office April 26.]
April 14, 11.45 a. m., 41** 60' 48" N., 49** 34' 15" W.. passed several (about
6) icebergs about 50-60 feet high and large quantity of field ice.
(Copy. File No. 63050-2995. From Parisian, Britlfih S. R. Master. WUIlam Hafns. Re-
ceived in branch hydroKraphic office. Boston. Mass., April 24, and forwarded to Hydro-
graphic Office. Received April 25.]
April 14. 4.30 p. m., latitude 41** 55' N., longitude 49" 02' W., passed first
Iceberg. 8 p. m., latitude 41' 42' N., longitude 49' 55' W., imssed last iceberg.
Between positions passed 14 medium and large Icebergs and numerous growlers.
f Copy. H. O. File 62859-2995. From German S. S. Pauia. Master, H. Rieke. Received
at branch hydrographlc office. Norfolk, Va., April 20, and forwarded to Hydrographlc
Office. Received in Hydrof?raphlc Office April 22.]
April 14. 11.40 a. m., latitude 41' 54' N., longitude 49' 32' W., one large ice-
berg. April 14, 11.40 a. m., latitude 41' 50' N., longitude 49' 33' W., one large
iceberg. April 14, noon, latitude 41' 53' N.. longitude 49' 30' W., one large ice-
berg. April 14. forenoon, from latitude 41' 58' longitude 49' 36' W.. till 41' 56'.
49' 52', heavy pack ice (one field). April 14. 5.30 p. m.. from latitude 41' 55',
longitude 50' 13', till latitude 41' 40', longitude 50' 30', heavy pack Ice and 30
large icebergs In one field.
[Copy. H. O. File 62727-2995. From German 8. 8. TrauienfeU. Master. Hupers. Re-
ceived in branch hydrofrraphlc office. Boston. Mass., April 18. and forwarded to Hydro-
graphic Office. Received in Hydrographlc Office April 19.]
April 14, 5.05 a. m., latitude 42' 01' N., longitude 49' 53' W., passed two large
icebergs about 200 feet long and 40 feet high.
April 14, 5.40 a. m., latitude 42' 01' N., longitude 50' 06' W.. to 8 a. m., lati-
tude 41' 40' N.. longitude 50' 22' W.. passing along a field of heavy, closely
packed Ice, with no openings in the field. The ice field could be seen extending
far to the northward. During this time sighted about 30 large bergs.
[Copy. H. O. File 62614-2996. Copy of telegram received from the Branch Hydro-
graphic Office, New York, on Apr. 17.]
Steamer La Bretagne from Havre reports, April 14. latitude 41' 39', longi-
tude 49' 21' and 50' 21', steamed through an ice field with numerous Icebergs
for four hours — 7.30 to 11.38 a. m.
Steamer Hrlliff Olav from Copenhagen reports, April 13, latitude 41' 43'.
longitude 49' 51'. pnsse<l three large Icebergs; same date, latitude 41' 39'. longi-
tude 50' 81', medium-size berg and field Ice.
tCopy. H. O. File 62728-2995. From S. 8. ^esnha. Master, O. P. Clarke. Received
in Hydrographlc Office Apr. 19, 1012. From Branch Hydrographlc Office, New York,
N. Y.l
April 14. 11 a. m., latitude 41' 50' north, longitude 49' 15' west, passed a
quantity of l)ergs, some very large : also, a field of pack ice about 5 miles long.
April 14, 2 p. m., 42' north, longitude 50°, passed another field of pack Ice with
1110 TITANIC DISASTER.
numerous bergs Intermixed, and extended from 4 iKiints on the starboan'
bow to abeam on the port side. Had to steer about 20 miles south to clear it.
Ice seemed to be one solid wall of ice, at least 16 feet high, as far as ooald b^
seen. In latitude 41° 35' north, longitude 50" 30 west, we came to the end of it,
and at 4 p. m. we were able to again steer to the westward. Saw no more ice
after this. Weather clear and bright.
[Copy. File No. 62496-2995. Telefn*am received by HydroRraphic Office Apr. 15 from
S. S. Amerika, via S. S. Titanic and Cape Race, Newfoundland, Apr. 14.]
Amerika passed two large icebergs in 41° 27' north, 50° 8' west, on the 14th
of April. Knuth, 10.51 p.
[Copy. File No. 62497-2995. Copy of telej^ram received in Hydrographic Office Apr. 15
from S. S. Piaa via Halifax.]
In latitude 42° 6' north and longitude 49° 43' west met with extensive field
ice, and sighted seven bergs of considerable sizes on both sides of track.
In this connection the attention of the committee is especially invited
to the report made by the master of the steamship Mesabcu wherein
he reports on April 14, at 2 p. m., in latitude 42° north, longitude
50° west, that he " passed another field of pack ice, with numerous
bergs intermixed, and extended from four points on the starboard
l)ow to abeam on the port side. Had to steer about 20 miles south
to clear it. Ice seemed to be one solid wall of ice at least 16 feet high,
as far as could be seen. In latitude 41° 35' north, longitude 60° 30'
west, we came to the end of it, and at 4 p. m. — April 14 — ^we were
able to again steer to the westward."
The ice so reported by the master of the steamship Mesaba was
directly in the track on which the Titanic is reportea to have been
steaming when she met with the accident."
Chart No. 2, submitted to the committee, shows the ice barrier as
it was on April 14, judging from the various reports made to the
office, and from the testimony as given before your committee by the
master of the steamship Mount Temple^ Capt. Moore.
The attention of the committee is further invited to the report made
by the steamship Athinai. This is the same steamer whose report by
radio of icebergs and field ice was received by the steamship Baltic^ as
testified to before your committee by wireless operator Balfour, and
which was transmitted by him to the steamship Titanic on April 14,
1912, at about 11.50 a. m., receipt of which was acknowledged at 12.05
p. m. on the 14th of April by Capt. Smith of the Titanic. This ice, as
shown on our chart, was on or near the track of the Titanic.
Senator Smith. Have you any means, from the description of
the ice to which you have just referred and the speed of the Titanic^
which was at that time making about 75 revolutions of her propeller
per minute, of knowing the force of the impact?
Capt. Knapp. It is impossible, under the testimony as given, to
state just how direct a blow the Titanic struck the ice, but an idea
may be formed as to the possible blow by using the accepted formula,
the weight multiplied by the square of "the velocity divided by twice
the gravitv. Multiplying the weight of the ship by the square of its
speed in feet per second and dividing by twice the force of gravity
will give the blow that would have been struck if she had kept .
straight on her course against this apparently solid ma^^s of ice,
Avhich, at a speed of 21 knots, would have been equal to 1,173,200 foot
ton3, or energy enough to lift 14 monuments the size of the Wash-
ington Monument in one second of time. I think from the evi-
'* TITANIO " DISASTER. 1111
dence before vour committee it is shown that the ship struck the
berg before she had appreciably lost any headway, due either to
change of helm or stoppage or reversal of engines, in which event
her striking energy would be practically that given above.
Senator Smith. Captain, in view of the strength of this blow,
can you account for the apparent absence of shock, the shock seem-
ing to have been scarcely noticeable by the pasengers and crew ?
Capt. Knapp. a comparison might be made to striking a sharp
instrument a glancing blow with the hand. There would be no ap-
parent resisting shock. That part of the ice which cut into its outer
skin was struck by the ship very much like the edge of a knife would
be so struck by the hand. If the ship had struck end on solidly
against the mass of ice, then there would have been the shock that
takes place when a moving body meets an immovable body.
I submit also another chart (chart No. 3) and the following
memorandum :
Hydbographic Office,
Washington, D. C, Afay IJi, 1912.
MEMORANDUM ON SHIPS* POSITION AS SHOWN ON CHART.
" BALTIC."
Ptige of
hearing.
S{)eed, 17 knots (Lloyd's), 15i knots at time of hearing C. Q. D. (calcu-
lated from Marine Data Report).
Bound east for Liverpool.
Positions plotted from Marine Data Report.
April 14, noon (N. Y., 9.50 a. m.), 40** 55' N., 49° 20' W.
April 15. 1.45 a. m. (X. Y., 11.05 p. m.). 42° 02' N., 45° 02' W. ; clianged
course to go to Titanic.
April 15, noon (X. Y., 9.20 a. m.), 42° 00' X., 46° 5f>' W.
This last position is probably after the Baltic hnd turned back to the
east and resumed her course toward Fastnet.
BIRMA.
Speed. 13 knots (Lloyd's).
Bound east to Rotterdam and Libau.
744 Birma reported as 70 miles from Titani&8 position April 14.
In plotting her ixisition preference is given to the western of the two ix)S-
sible positions on the course from New York to the turning point, be-
cause she wys sighted by the Mount Temple early on the morning oif
April 15.
** CALIFORNIAN."
Speed, 13 knots (Lloyd's). Four-masted steamship (Lloyd's).
684 11 to 13i knots.
Bound west for Boston.
684 9.40 a. m., 42° N., 47° W.. April 14.
684 10.30 p. m. (X. Y.. 8.40), 42° 5' N., 50° V W.
684 6.30 p. m. (X. Y., 4.40), 42° 5' N., 49° 10' W.
684 Course. S. 16° W., 19i or 19^ miles to iK)sltion of Titanic. {Calif ornian
appears to have made complete circle while engines were stopi)ed Is
42° 5' X.. 50° 7' W.)
Position from marine data report April 15, 2.30 p. m. (X. Y., 12.55 p. m.)-,
41° 33' X., 50° 42' W.
" CARPATHIA."
Speed, 15 knots (Lloyd's).
21 16i knots to Titanic; 58 miles in 3i hours.
19 Bound east for Gibraltar, etc.
1112 '* TITANIC *' DISA6TEB.
19 Heard C. Q. D. of Titanic at 12.35 p. m. April 14 (10.45 p. m. N. Y. time).
^ 20 Position obtaiued by reversing course N. 52° W., true 58 miles.
20 Distance from Titanic, 58 miles at time of C. Q. D.
" FBANKFUBT."
Speed, 121 knots (Lloyd's).
827 13 knots to Titanic (calculated from current report).
Bound east for Bremerhaven from Galveston.
740 Position, 39* 47' N., 52° 10' W., April 14, 10.25 p. m. N. Y. time.
Position, 41° 44' N., 50° 24' W., April 15, 10.50 a. m. (9.40 a. m. N. Y.)
(from current report).
Position, 41° 35' N., 50° 15' W., taken from current report
698 Seen by Califomian near this position.
Position, 41° 26' N., 49° 30' W., April 15, 2.30 p. m. (12.55 N. Y.) (from
current report).
Distance from TitanU, 150 miles at time of C. Q. D.
Heard C. Q D. at 10.40. N. Y. time.
** MOUNT TEMPLE."
Speed, 12i knots (Lloyd's).
728 Hi knots to Titanic,
Bound west to St. John, ^. B.
727 Position at C. Q. D. of Titanic 50 miles away, 41° 25' N., 51° 14' W.
728 Steered N. 65 E., true, at 11^ knots. Stopped at 3.25 a. m. (12.55 a. m.
N. Y.).
729 Schooner seen 2 miles on port bow of Mount Temple, plots 18 miles from
Titanic'8 position by time, course, and speed instead of 13, as per
testimony.
731 Tramp steamer plotted approximately in position where first seen.
727 Distance from Titanic, 50 miles at time of O. Q. D.
" OLYMPIC."
Speed, over 20 knots (Lloyd's).
Bound east for Fastnet.
175 Position at 4.24 a. m.. G. M. T., April 15, latitude 40° 12' N., 61° 18' W.,
11.24 p. m., N. Y. time.
" VIBGINIAN."
Speed, 18 knots (Lloyd's).
175 170 knots to Titanic,
Bound east for Southampton from Halifax.
175 This position, 170 miles from Titanic at midnight, is plotted on the
probable track from Halifax to turning point, 41° N., 47° W.
The Virginian is plotted west of TitaMc positl&n because she was com-
municating with Cape Race just after the time of the accident
'* PARISIAN.'*
Speed 14 knots (Lloyd's).
Speed on April 14, 12 knots (calculated from marine data blank).
Bound toward Boston via Halifax from Glasgow.
Positions plotted from marine data blank:
April 14, 4.30 p. m. (2.42 N. Y.). 41° 55' N., 49° 02' W .
April 15, 8 p. m. (612 N. Y.), 41° 42' N.. 49° 55' W.
Position from wireless report to Titanic from Califomian: April 14 (no
time), 41° 55' N.. 49° 14' W.
Position at 10.25 p. ui.. New York time, an arc of circle radius being 51
miles, for 4i hours, at 12 knots per hour.
Note. — In the above wherever ** marine data reix)rt " Is used the original of
such report from the ship In question Is on file in the Hydrographlc Office.
Senator Smith. Captain, can you think of anything else that you
desire to say that will tend to throw any light upon the inquiry being
it r,,^^.^^^^ M
TITANIC ' DISASTER. 1113
■
made by the committee into the causes leading up to this wreck, and
subsequent events, including any inemorandum or data bearing upon
the position of the steamship Califomian on the night of this
accident ?
Capt. Knapp. I desire to submit the following " Memorandum on
chart," marked " Titanic — Ice barrier — Near-by ships," which is ex-
planatory of chart No. 2, which I have introduced in evidence.
The memorandum refen*ed to is as follows :
Hydrogbaphic Office,
WashingioiK D. C^. May /.), 1912.
Memorandum on Chart.
" titanic '' — ICE BARRIER — NEAR-BY SHIPS.
6 .
The chart bearing the above heading shows the ice barrier into which the
Titanic undoubtedly steamed. The ice as shown on this chart, it will be noted,
is grouped in one barrier, and not shown scatteretl as on the chnrt headed
" Ice as rei)orted near Titanic." From all the evidence before the Hydro-
graphic Office — that Is, the hearings before the Senate committee :nid the vari-
ous reports made by steamers of ice in the locality in question — the Hydro-
graphic Office deems that the ice barrier was. to all intents and puriwses, as
shown on this chart. Copies of the above-mentioned ice reix)rts are forwarded
herewith. There may have been, and probably were, other ice fields or bergs
in this general locality, but they are not shown on the chart, as it is desired
to bring out clearly, without other confusing details, the barrier into which
the Titanic steamed.
An inspection of this chart will show that the Mount Temple ran into the
southwestern end of this ice field at 12.55 a. m. (New York time), April 15.
Thereafter to have reached the Titanic it would have been necessary for the
Mount Temple to have steamed around the southern end of this ice barrier,
and around it to the northward and eastward over 30 miles. As her highest
si)eed does not exceed 13 knots (Lloyds Register) she could not have reached
the scene of the Titanic disaster earlier than 3.15 a. m. (New York time) of
that morning, or about 2 hours and IS minutes after the Titanic sank (12.57
^ a. m.. New York time).
A further inspection of this chart shows the Caiifonuan as located by the
master thereof.
A still further inspection of the chart will show certain arcs of circles, shown
In dotted lines drawn from the following centers: The position of the Calif or-
nUm, the position of the Titanic, the " hypothetical " iwsition of the Califomian.
Tb9« arcs are drawn to represent the following: The radii of the arcs drawn
al)out the Titanic as a center and the Califomian as a center are identical, the
larger radius being 16 miles and the smaller radius being 7 miles. Sixteen
miles represents the distance at which the side lights of the Titanic could be
seen from one standing on the Califomian at the height of the latter ship's side
lights, or the reverse, the 7 miles radius being the distance at which the side
lights of the Califomian would cease to be seen by a perstm from a boat in
the water. A further reference to the chart will show, midway between the
plotted positions of tJie Califomian and Titanic, a plotted *' hy|K)thetical i>osi-
tion of the Califomian.'* With the hypothesis that the Califomian was In this
plotted position, a dotted line is drawn on a bearing SSB. given by the master
of the Califomian as the bearing in which he sighted a large steamer. This
dotted line is drawn to intersect the track of the Titanic. A line parallel thereto
is drawn to also intersect the track of the Titanic at a point at w^hich the
Titanic appears to have been at 10.06 p. m.. New York time, April 14 — at 11.56
p. m. of that date by the Californian*s time — ^at which time the large steamer
is testified to have been seen bj" Ernest Gill, of the Califomian. It thus ap-
pears that the l)earings of the steamer given by the master of the Califomian
and the testimony of Ernest Gill of that ship will fix the Califomian's position
near or about the hypothetical position shown on the chart, if the lights seen
on that ship were those of the Titanic.
1114 TITANIC " DISASTER.
•
A still further inspection of the chart will show that the Califomian, if lo-
cated in the position given by the master thereof, could have reached the scene
of the disaster in about two hours, and, if located in the hypothetical poBUion
shown on the chart, the Califomian certainly could have reached the Titanic
in a little over an hour after she struck. The evidence talien in the bearings
shows that the Titanic flouted for two and a half hours aiPtor she struck the
barrier.
John J. Kkafp.
I invited especial attention to that part of the memorandum refer-
ring to the hypothetical position of tlie Califomian^ as shown on that
chart, and, in connection therewith^ it is desirable to explain that the
arcs of circles drawn about the position of the steamship Titanic and
about the position of the steamship Califomian were drawn to
graphically illustrate the testimony of certain witnesses before your
committee.
Senator Smith. What do' these arcs indicate ?
Capt. Knapp. The outer arc around each ship is drawn with a
radius of 16 miles, which is approximately the farthest distance at
which the curvature of the earth would have permitted the side
lights of the Titanic to be seen by a person at the height of the side
lights of the Califorrdam^ or at which the side lights of the Cali'
fortimn could have been seen by a person at the height of the side
lights of the Titanic, The inner circle around each ship is drawn
with a radius of 7 miles. This is approximately the distance after
reaching which the curvature of the earth would have shut out the
side lights of the Califomian from the view of one in a lifeboat in
the water. It appears, therefore, that if the Titanic'^8 position at the
time of the accident was as fixed by the testimony ana if it was the
side light of the Califomian that was seen from the boat deck of the
Titani^^ the Califomian was somewhere inside of the arc of the 16-
mile circle drawn about the Titanic. It further appears that if the
above hypothesis be correct and if the side light of the other steamer
could not be seen, as is testified to, from one of the lifeboats of the
Titanic after being lowered, the Califomian was somewhere outride
of the circle with the 7-mile radius drawn about the Titanie,
In the case of the Califomian^ if the steamer which in the testi-
mony given by members of the crew of the Califomian^ including
the captain and the donkey engineman and others, is said to have
been seen by them, was the Titanic^ she must have been somewhere
inside of the circle with the 16-mile radius drawn around the Calf-
fomian. If that be the case, as the Califomian! s side light was shut
out by the curvature of the earth from the view of anyone in a life-
boat of the Titanic after being lowered into the water, then the
Titanic must have been outside of the circle drawn with the 7-mile
radius around the Califomian,
Further reference to this chart will show plotted a hypothetical
position of the Califomian. On the hypothesis that the Califomian
was in this position, a dotted line is drawn on the chart on the bear-
ing given by the captain of the Califomian as that on which the
steamer .was sighted. This bearing is drawn on the chart to intersect
the track of the Titanic. Another dotted line is drawn parallel
thereto from a point on the course of the Titanic where she appar-
ently was at 10.06 p. m., New York time, April 14, that being 11.56
p. m. of that date of the Calif omian^s time, at which Ernest Gill, a
member of the crew of the Califomian^ in his testimony before your
committee, stated that the large steamer was seen by him. If the
ii „rwrw^ ^ -^^-^^ 9 9
TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1115
Cdlifomian was in the hypothetical position shown on the chart, the
Titanic could have been seen by the officers and crew of the Cali-
forrdan at the time mentioned.
Senator Smith. Captain, are you able to state to the committee
whether there was any vessel between the position of the Titanic just
preceding and following the accident ana the position of the Cali-
forman at that time ?
Capt. Knapp. From being present at hearings before your com-
mittee and from reading the printed testimony of witnesses examined
by the committee I am led to the conclusion that if there was any vessel
between the Calif omian and the Titanic at the time referred to she
does not seem to have been seen by anv of the ships near there on the
following morning, nor have there been any reports submitted to
the Hydrographic Office which would indicate that there was any
such steamer in that locality. The evidence does not indicate to me
that there was any such third steamer in those waters, especially in
view of the fact that no such steamer was seen by other steamers or
by those in the lifeboats the following morning, and as the ice barrier,
from all reports, between the reported position of the Calif amian and
that of the Titatnc was impassable to a vessel proceeding to the west-
ward, and there is no testimony to show that if such a steamer was
between the Califomian and the Titanic she proceeded to the east-
w^ard, the captain of the Calif ornian^ having testified that he last saw
the said steamer proceeding to the westward and being on a bearing
to the westward of the Calijomian. Nothing appears in the testimony
to show that the steamer so seen reversed its course and proceeded to
the eastward.
Senator Smith. Captain, it appears from the testimony that there
are established, by mutual agreement between the steamship lines,
certain fixed courses, tracks, or lanes across the north Atlantic, and
that the steamship companies order their c^iptains to follow these
tracks. Has the captain of a ship any discretion in this matter which
would enable him to depart from the given track or course to avoid
danger !
Capt. Knapp. It is, of course, understood by all seafaring people,
and, in fact, it should be understood by the public generally, that the
trans- Atlantic steamers in following certain tracks in crossing the
ocean are not supposed to adhere rigidly to those tracks when good
seamanship dictates that they diverge therefrom. A seaman is sup-
posed alwavs to handle and navigate a ship in a seamanlike manner,
and no har3 and fast, rigid rules are laid down that require him to da
otherwise. The foUowingis from the International Rules, enacted by
the Senate and House of Kepresentatives of the United States:
Abt. 29. Nothing In these rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner or
master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to carry lights
or signals, or of any neglect to keep a projier lookout, or (»f the neglect of any
precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by
the special circumstances of the case.
This rule affirms a sea maxim that a captain must, in an emergency,
handle or navigate his ship in a seamanlike manner.
Witness excused.
Senator Smith. I desire to put into the record a memorandum
from Capt. Knapp regarding the drift of ice on and near the Grand
Banks, submitted Iby the Hydrographic Office May 13, 1912.
1116 ** TITANIC '* DISASTBB.
The memorandum referred to is here printed in the record as
follows :
Memobandum fob Senatob William Aldkn Smith.
in be drift of ice on and neab the gband banks.
(Submitted by the Hydrograpbic Office May 13, 1912.)
1. The Labrador Current, which brings both berg and field Ice down past
^Newfoundland, sweeps across the banks in a generally south to southwest di-
rection, flowing more westerly on its surface as it approaches the warm Gulf
Stream water in about latitude 43'. with a set of about 12 miles a day. The
«peed of the Gulf S'ream drift at its northern edge is only about 6 miles a
4lay at the fiftieth meridian and its depth is probably less than 900 feet
2. An ice field arriving at the edge of the Gulf Stream drift finds itself
Impelled less and less to southward and more and more to eastward and north-
eastward; but a deeply floating Iceberg mny continue to plow southwaixl into
the warm east-flowing current and end its career south of latitude 40* by
melting and breaking up. The reason for this is that the cold, south-moving
<;urrent actually underruns the warm surface water.
3. The southward progress of icebergs across the Grand Banks is estimated
to be a degree in five days, or about 12 miles a day ; but it seems to slack up
as the warm current near the tail of the bank is approached (lat. 42* to 44"
N., long. 49° to 51* W.) Here the Icebergs are reported with greatest fre-
quency. This may be because the largest number of passing steamers trav-
erse the region or because the bergs loiter in that vicinity owing to the com-
mingling of the two ocean currents above named.
4. The course of an iceberg in that region could be predicted if the following
factors in the problem were known: (a) Vertical section below water, (5)
what ratio of the vertical section Is in each current (polar and Gulf Stream).
(c) direction of each current, (d) velocity of each current. What these factors
«re must be estimated in each case, varying with each berg according to shape
and size, and varying with the location and date to some extent.
5. Not much is known regarding the subsurface current. This should be
studied during a hydrograpbic survey of the banks; at the same time careful
observations are needed of the surface <^urrents (direction, velocity, meeting
points, temperature, color, etc.). A thorough study of the question is desirable:
and it would be possible for a naval vessel to gain much useful information by
a season's work in that vicinity (AprllJx) August, inclusive). She could
also record direct observations of ice mo#ments, and act as a radiot<degniph
station to warn other ships.
John J. Knafp,
Captain, United States Navy^ Hydrographer.
Senator Smith. I submit for the record also a letter addressed to
Senator Perkins, transmitted to the committee, concerning certain
backing trials of the battleships Delaware and North Dakota at the
time these vessels were running ahead at about 21 knots speed.
(The letter referred to, together with the letter of transmission of
Senator Perkins, is here printed in the record as follows:)
Washington, D. C„ May 16, 1912.
Hon. Wm. Alden Smith,
Chairman Subcommittee Com>mittee on Commerce
to Investigate loss of Steamer "Titanic.**
My Dear Senator: Referring to my conversation with you. I beg to hand
you herewith the letter which I mentioned that I received from Admiral Cone,
Chief of the Bureau of Engineering, United States Navy. I think the informa-
tion he has given in this letter is quite valuable, and I hope you will l>e able to
make some use of it in your report.
Very truly, yours, Geo. C. Perkins.
[Inclosure.]
Navy Department.
Bureau of Steam Engineering,
Washington, D. T., May 8. 7P/2.
My Dear Senator:
In replying to your letter of May 7, concerning time required to transmit sig-
nals from the bridge to the engine room and have them obeyed, I furnish you
'^ TITANIC "
DISASTER.
HIT
the following data concerning backing trials of the Delaware and yorth Dakota
at the time these vessels were running ahead at about 21 knots si)eed. I would
estimate the time required to transmit the signal from bridge to engine-room
not to exceed 10 seconds. On the collier Neptune, where the engines can be
handled from the bridge, this 10 seconds loss of time would be eliminated.
The backing data for the Delaware Is as follows:
Signal raoeiyed to back. .
Engines started baoUng
Engines backing hard. .
Starboard
engine.
Pra-t
engine.
Secondt.
Seeondi.
0
O
22
10
52
60
The ship was dead in the water in 1 minute 52 seconds.
Ship making al>out 21 knots when signal to back was received.
The corresponding data for the North Dakota, which is a turbine ship, the
Delaware being a reciprocating-engine ship, is as follows :
Signal reoeived to back..
Engines started backing
Engines backing hard. . .
Starboard
engine.
Min. tec.
0
1 8
9 35
Port engine.
Min. tee^
2.
3 2^
The ship was dead in the water in 6 minutes 56.4 seconds.
The ship at time signal to back was received ^as making about 21 knots.
The machinery of the Titanic was a combination of reciprocating engines
with turbines, with the power distributed on three shafts, the reciprocating
engines being located on the outboard shafts and developing approximately
50 per cent of the full power. The backing was accomplished only with the
reciprocating engines. If we allow that the backing power of .these engine*
was equal to the ahead power, which is not the case, as on account of the effect
of the back of the propellers the backing power is always less than the ahead
power, the maximum possible backing power of the Titanic could not have
exceeded 50 per cent of the ahead power. This being the fact, her backing pos-
sibilities were more nearly like those of the North Dakota, the turbine vessel ^
than those of the Delaware, the reciprocating engine ship. As pointed out
in the first part of the letter, the probable saving in total time between the
desire to back on the bridge and the actual backing in the engine room, whichr
would be accomplished by fitting bridge handling apparatus for the main en-
gines, would probably not exceed 10 seconds.
In the above trials the North Dakota was handicapped by very bad maneuvering:
valves. Should her valves have handled as well as the reversing gear of the
Delaware, the time to bring her to a dead stop in the water would have been
redacted to approximately 5 minutes. I have selected the above vessels to quote
on account of their large size, both being Dreadnoughts, and the speed at
which they were running when the signal to back was given.
Very respectfully,
H. I. Cone,
Engineer in Chief, U. 8, Navy, Chief of Bureau.
Hon. Geo. C. Perkins, United States Senator,
Chairman Committee on Naval Affairs,
United States Senate, Washington, D, 0.
Senator Smith. I also submit for the record a memorandum re-
ceived from Capt. Knapp of the Hydrographic Office regarding the
routes traveled by steamers, and having special reference to certain
changes in these routes, or tracks, after the accident to the Titan w^
The memorandum referred to is here printed in the record, a*
follows :
1118 '* TITANIC '' DISASTER.
Memorandum fob Senator William Alden Smith. T'nited SxATts Senatk.
Hydbogbaphic Office. Navy Department,
May jr,, 1912.
There is submitted herewith a memoraudum on the steamer lanes and the icv
question prepared by the Hydroj?raphlc Office on April 20, 1912. and published
by authority of the Secretary of the Navy, which gives a brief history of the
adoption of the steamer lanes.
Following is the chronology of recent events bearing uix)n the subject of the
trans-Atlantic tracks:
January 14, 1912. changed from the accepted northerly set of tracks to the
accei)ted southerly set of tracks (the one upon whose westward route the
Titwnic was lost. This change has been made annually at the middle of
January, and the change from the southerly to the northerly lane has been
made annually at the middle of August by formal agreement entered into bj*
all the trans-Atlantic companies in 1898.
April 14, 1912, the Titanic struck ice and sunk in latitude 41" 4(5' Nortlu
longitude 50° 14' West, early April 15.
April 15 Hydrographlc Office received radio telegram from German steamer
Amrrika via Titanic and Cai)e Raee. reporting two icel>erg8 April 14. In lati-
tude 41° 27' North, longitude 50° 08' West. This news, which was receive!
early in the morning was at once telegraphed to the branch hydrographlc
office. New York.
April 16 it had become apparent from numerous reiwrts gathered by the
Hydrographlc Office that the ice season was an extraordinary one and the
office took up the question of shifting the steamer lane with its branch office in
New York and witli the Navy Department.
April 16, the steamship companies in New York announced that they had
shifted their route to cross 47° west., in latitude 41* north, w^tbound. and
to cross 47° west, in latitude 40° 10' north, eastbound.
April 18, having received the approval of the Secretary of the Navy, the
office directed Lieut. Grady, in charge of the branch Hydrographlc Offle at
New York, to confer quietly with the steamship companies and urge a still
farther southward shifting of the steamship lane. Lieut. Grady found the
companies entirely oi)en to suggestion; they cabled to their European houses,
and. i>y common agreement, the tracks were la Id to the southward, as follows?:
April 19, westl)ound, great circle to latitude 30° north, longitude 45° west:
then to latitude 39° north, longitude 50° west; then to Nantucket Shoals Light-
ship; then to Ambrose Lightship.
Mo<i I terra ilea n steamers will follow the same tracks westward of longitude
45° west.
Eastbound, Ambrose Lightship to latitude 40° north, longitude 70° west:
then to latitude 38° 20' north, longitude 50° west; then to latitude 38° 20'
north : longitude 45° west ; then great circle to Bishops Rock.
Mediterranean steamers will follow the same tracks to latitude 38° 20'
north, longitude 45° west : then the usual tracks to the strait.
Mny 9, Hydrographlc Office received another radio telegram from German
steamer Amcrika, via Cane Race, rei)orting large icebergs in latitude 39° 02*
north, longitude 47° west. The office immediately telegraphed this news to
the branch Hydrographlc Office at New York, which gave it the widest pub-
licity, and resulted in the steamship companies again taking the matter up and
agreeing to make still another change in the lanes, as follows:
May 11. westbound, lane follows great circle to latitude 38° north, longitude
45° west; thence along the imrallel of 38° to longitude 50°. Elastbound, lane
to latitude 37° 40' north, longitude 50° west; thence along the parallel of lati-
tude 37° 40' north, to longitude 45° west; thence by great circle to Europe.
The wisdom of this latest change Is demonstrated by the receipt in the Hydro-
graphic Office of reports from sea showing that numerous icebergs had reached
the thirty-ninth imrallel. and some had even passed south of that latitude.
John J. Knapp.
Senator Smith. I also submit a letter received by the committee
from the Director of the United States Geological Snr^'ey, bearing
date May 16, 1912, having special reference to the composition of
icebergs.
'^ TITANIC " DISASTER. 1119
The letter referred to is here printed in the record as follows :
Department of the Interior,
T'NITED Si^TATES (iEOLOQICAL SURVEY,
Washington, May 16, J912.
Hon. William Alden Smith,
Chairman Subcotumittee United Fttatrn Senate, Wanhington, D. C\
My Dear Sir : Replying to a letter of May 8 requesting information concern-
ing tbe possibility of the Titanic having had its hull toni oi)en by a mass of
rock imbedded in the submerged portion of the iceberg with which it collided :
As Prof. E. H. WlIliRins, jr., suggests, in liis card which you inclose, such
may {)ossibly have been the case. It certainly api)ear8 that such an ice mass,
armed w^ith embedded rock fragments, would be much more effective in rip-
ping open the plates of a ship's hull than a mass of clear ice. It is a well-
known fact, as reported by numerous Arctic exi)lorers, that some at least of the
fJreenland icebergs transport rock masses. In one of his addresses delivered
in Washington last year, either that before the Geological Society of Washing-
ton, or one before the National Academy of Sciences, Sir John Murray referred
to the abundant bowlders found by the dredging of the Challenger expedition,
scattered over parts of the bottom of the North Atlantic. He referred to these
as being so numerous in places that were the sea bottom elevated and drainetl
8o as to l>ecome land he thought geologists would be inclined to refer the de-
l>ORit to a continental ice sheet, as has been done with the drift spread over the
north half of the ^Jorth American Continent.
Dr. Ellsha Kent Kane, in his volume on the "XT. S. Grinnell Expedition,"
1S,%4, p. 113, describes bergs covered with detritus or rock fragments, varying
ill size from mere pebbles to large blocks. He writes of one as follows:
" The berg had evidently changed its equilibrium, and it seemed as if these
rocks had been cemented in its former base and had there been subjected to
attrition during its rotary oscillations against the bottom of the sea.**
On page 455 he describes the overturning of bergs due to changes in their
equilibrium, and, referring to rock-studded ice, states (p. 456) :
" In such cases the deeply embedded position of the larger fragments spoke of
their having been there from the original structure of the l>erg.*'
Further (p. 457) :
** Of nearly 5.000 bergs which I have seen there was perhaps not one thnt
did not contain fragmentary nx*k."
In his Arctic Expeditions: The Second Orlnnell Expedition (vol. 2, 185(5,
pp. 150, 157), Dr. Kane describes ice in Marshall Bay covered with millions of
tons of rock d^^bris. Oonc€»rning this he writes:
** I have found masses that had been detached in this way floating many
miles out to sea — long symmetrical tables, 2()0 feet long l)y 80 broiid, covered
with large angular rocks and bowlders, and seemingly impregnated throughout
with detrital matter. These rafts In Marshall Bay were so numei-ous that
oonld they have melted as I saw them the bottom of the sea would have pre-
sented a more curious study for the geologist than the bowlder-covered lines
of our middle latitudes."
It should be noted, however, that these ice rafts probably do not transport
their loads to such low latitudes as are reached by tlie more massive bergs.
Dr. I. I. Hayes, in his volume on The Open Polar Sea. a narrative of a
voyage of discovery toward the North Pole (1807, i)p. 403, 404). describes
tlie rock debris dropi>ed ujwn the ice from cliffs along the shore and thence
drifted away. He writes:
" The amount of rock thus transi)orted to the ocean is immense, and yet it
falls far short of that which is carried l)y the icebergs, the nx-k and sand
eiiibe<ided in which, as they lay in the parent glacier, being sometimes sufficient
to bear them down under the weight until but the merest fragments rise
above the surface. As the berg melts, the rock and sand fall to the bottom
of the ocean; and, if the place of their deposit should one day rise above the
fsea level, some geological students of future ages may, perliaps, be as much
l)uzzled to know how they came there as those of the present generation are
to account for the bowlders of the Connecticut Valley."
The amount of rock in any one iceberg is, however, iirobably small, so that
it Is not generally noticeable in the bergs which reach ttie lower latitudes,
at least in those parts of the bergs which extend al)ove the water level.
Helland (3877), as quoted by James D. Dana (Manual of Geology, Fourth
1120 '* TITANIC " DISASTER.
Edition, 1895, p. 252), states that most of the Greenland icebergs are clean,
but " now and then one is seen with bowlders upon it, and here and there small
bergs that are quite covered with stones and gravel/*
liieut A. W. Greeley, in his Three Years of Arctic Service, an Account of
the Lady Franklin Bay Expedition of 1881-84, (1886, p. 52), refers to the
transportation of rock debris by icebergs in part as follows :
" Comment has been made as to the freedom of floebergs from earthy matter
or stones, which, it is argued, must l>e found on them if they are from glaciers.
In this connection it should be remembered that of all the many miles of gla-
ciers' front seen in Grinnell Land, in but two instances were earthy substances
noted — one in Henrietta Nesmith Glacier, where perhaps a thousandth part of
its front was faintly tinged as if with earthy matter. In the other case, at the
head of Ella Bay, the glacier is advancing down a narrow valley hemmed in
by side hills thousands of feet in height, which accounts for their exceptional
presence.
" It is thus evident that there is scracely more than one chance in a thousand
for a floeberg bearing stones to be found and still less for traces of a moraine/*
Following this he describes one berg 600 feet thick and 300 square on wliich
he observed about 50 rocks.
The Greenland glaciers, extending from the great ice cap down the valleys
which notch the margin of the interior upland, as described by other observers,
do not carry a great amount of rock debris, and most of this is embedded in the
lower part of the ice. When these glaciers extend into water sufficiently deep
for icebergs to break off, most of the debris would thus be l^the basal part of
the ice and, since but one-ninth of the mass of floating ice extends above tue
water level, most of the debris in a berg standing 50 to 100 feet above the sur-
face of the sea would at first be far below the depth at which a ship's hull
would encounter it. With the melting of the ice as it floats southward, the rock
fragments are released and dropped to the sea bottom. The most distant of
this glacio-natant deposition is said to take place about the banks of Newfound-
land, or between meridians 44 and 52 and north of parallel 40° 30'. Some of
the rock is probably carried still farther south, especially in such a year as
1912, when the Icebergs are reported as having been seen much farther south
than is customary. It is thus quite possible that rock masses may have been
embedded in the berg which the Titanic encountered. While most of the debris
is probably embedded in the basal part of such ice masses, melting of the part
of the ice exposed above the water would cause the basal part to be gradually
raised toward the surface. Moreover, the tilting of icebergs from their orip-
nal positions results from the change of the center of gravity, due to disruption
and unequal melting of different parts of the mass. Such bergs are also known
to turn over, so that even though the upper part of the berg were at first free
from rock debris, the rock-shod part might be brought up to a level where a
ship's hull would encounter it
Masses of rock 50 feet or more In circumference are known to have been
transported by continental glaciers, and it Is quite possible that large masses
of rock may be carried by some of the icebergs, though probably most of the
stones are comparatively small. However, one large rock firmly embedded in
the ice at the point of contact would certainly be most effective Ui ripping open
a ship's hull under the force of a glancing impact Ice in such a great mass
as the berg which was encountered is, however, probably quite competent to
produce disastrous results experienced without calling for the presence of any
included mass of rock.
Very respectfully, Geo. Otis Smfth, Director,
At 5 o'clock p. m. the taking of testimony before Senator Smith
was adjourned.
X
" TIT..A^ISriC " IDIS^^STEIi
HEARING
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY^ECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIREGTINO THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC*
PART 14
Printed for the use otthe Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFIOE
ins
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
Unitbd Statbb Sbnatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SIOTH, Micbigui, dkoiniiaii.
QBOROE C. PERKINS, CaUfinla. F. H. BDOCONB, North GuoUoa.
JONATHAN BOURNE, Jn„ Ot^au FRANCtS O. NEWLANDS, Nevada
THEODORE E. BURTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida
w. M. utKummr, CML
n
"TITANIC' DISASTER.
EXAMINATION ON BOABD S. S. OLYMPIC, NEW TOBK HABBOB,
BT SENATOB WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, MAT 25, 1912.
Capt. Hebbkrt James Haddock, being duly sworn, deposed and
said:
Q. Will you please give your full name and place of residence ? —
A. Herbert James Haadock, Southampton, England.
Q. And your business? — A. Master mariner.
Q. You are captain of the steamship Olympic^ of the White Star
Line?-^A. Yes, sir.
Q. And were filling this same i)osition on Sunday, the 14th of
April last? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you tell me, Captain, where you were when you hearH of
the accident to the Titanic? — A. Roughly, we were west by south 500
miles of the Titanic.
Q. And from whom did you get your first information? — A. From
Mr. Moore, the wireless operator.
Q. What time of the day or night did you gjet this information ? —
A. New York time, 10.50 p. m., Sunday [quoting from the report of
wireless operator] :
Hear Titanic sipnaUng to sonif* ship about striking an iceberg. Am not sure if
it is tbe Titanic who has stniclc an iceberg. Am interfered by atmospherics
and many stations worlcing.
This was 10.50 p. m., New York time.
Q.. At that time you were about 500 miles away ? — A. About 500
miles.
Q. From whom was this information received? — A. At 11 o'clock
[quoting from report] :
Hear Titanic sending out signals of distress, and I answered his calls imme-
diately.
It was direct from the Titanic.
Q. That was a C. Q. D. call?— A. Yes.
Q. What did you do when you received that call? — A. It was 10
minutes later after I got the first call from her, and then we worked
out the course and distance to where she was, altered course toward
her, and at the same time sent for chief engineer to get up full power.
Q. Did you hear anything further from the Titanic while you
were going to her assistance ? — A. [Quoting from report :]
11.10 Titanic replies and gives me his position, 41.46 N. 50.14 W., and says:
*-We have struck an iceberg." Reported this information to bridge immedi-
ately. Our distance from the Titanic, 505 miles. 11.20 p. m. signals with the
Titanic. He says : " Tell captain get your boats ready and what is your i)08l-
tion?" 11.35 p. m. sent message to Titanic: "Commander Titanic. 4.24 a. m.
GMT, 40.52 N. 61.18 W. Are you steering southly to meet us ?— Haddock.*'
1121
1122 *' TITANIC '* DISASTEB.
11.40 p. m. Titanic says, " Tell captain we are putting the passengers off in
small boats." 11.45 p. m. Asked TitcMic what weather he had had. He says.
** Clear and calm." 11.60 p. m. Message to Titanic : " Commander Titanic,
am lighting up all possible boilers as fast as can. — Haddock."
This is the last one to TUandc.
Q. Did you have any communication with the Titanic prior to
the accident on Sunday^ — A. Not that I am aware of, sir.
Q. Did you have any information from any other vessel regardiojg
ice on Sunday? — A. On Sunday, after we were informed that this
had happened.
Q, With what vessel? — ^A. 8.30 a. m.. New York time, sir. This
is the first message we got re ice Sunday. The message is dated the
13th April : Iceberg reported in latitude 41.50, longitude 50.20.
Signed Wood. He is the captain of the Asian.
Q. That was on Saturday the 13th? — A. It is just dated April 13.
He has evidently got the report from somewhere else.
Q. Is that the only ice warning you got that day? You got this
report on the 13th, on Monday morning, the day after the accident ? —
A. Yes. At least, I understood the accident was somewhere about
midnight of the 14th or 15th.
Q. It was about 11.45, ship's time? — A. Yes.
Q. That is, Monday morning the 15th? — A. At 10.12 a. m. we
got into communication with steamship Mesdba.
Can give no Information of Titanic. Sends following service message:
** Captain OlymfHCy in latitude 42 to latitude 41.25 north, longitude 49 we^t
to longitude 50.35 west, saw heavy pack ice and a large number of icebergs,
also some field ice ; weather has been very fine and clear.
" Clark/'
Q. That was addressed to you? — A. Yes, sir (quoting from re-
port) : At 10.35 a. m. received following service message from the
PariHan:
Captain Olyinpic:
Field ice extends to latitude 41.22, heavy to the northwest of that, and bergs
very numerous of all sizes; had flue, clear weather.
Ha IKS.
Q. That is the only report of ice? — A. I sent a message to the
Parisian^ but it is merely to advise about that ice he saw. It is
not direct report of ice.
Q. When was that. Captain ? — ^A. It was 12.25 p. m. Monday, but
the next real report of ice I got from the Carpatkuju It was 4 p. m.,
Monday (quoting from report) :
Following received from Carpathia:
"' Carpathia.
" Capt. Haddock, Olynifdc:
" South point pack ice 41.16 north. Don*t attempt to go north until 49.3«>
west. Many bergs, large and small, amongst pack; also for many miles to
eastward.
" ROBTBON."
Continuing from report :
Fear absolutely no hope searching Tita^Uc's position. Left Leyland 8. R
CaHfornian searching around. All boats accounted for. About 675 souls saved,
crew and passengers, latter nearly all women and chlldr^i. Titanic fouuderetl
about 2.20 a. m., 5.47, GMT in 41.16 north, 50.14 west; not certain of having
got through. Please forward to White Star — also to Cnnard, Liverpool and
New York — that I am returning to New York. Consider this most advisable
for many considerations.
ROSTBON.
it „rr», ^ -.crvr^ t»
TTTANIO ' DISASTER. 1123
Q. Have you anything further there from Capt. Rostron? — A.
There are several messages from him, but this is the first one Sunday
or Monday morning.
Q. It was not an ojfficial message? — ^A. This is what Mr. Moore
received :
New York time, 2 p. m., was In communication with stenmshlp Carpathia.
Asked for news of the Titanic, He says : " I can not do everything at once.
Patience please."
Then continues —
I recelyed distress signals from the Titanic at 11.20 and we proceeded right
to the spot mentioned. On arrival at daybreak we saw field ice 25 miles ap-
parently solidf and a quantity of wreckage, and a number of boats full of
people. We raised about 670 souls. The Titanic has sunk. She went down
in about two hours. Captain and all engineers lost. Our captain sent order
that there was no need for Baltic to come any further, so with that she re-
turned on her course to Liverpool. Are you goipg to resume your course on that
Information? We have two or three oflScers aboard and the second Marconi
operator who had been creeping his way through water 30 degrees some time.
Mr. Ismay aboard. This Information was reported to the commander imme-
diately. I Informed the Carpathia that if he had any Important traffic to get
through I would take it for him as I was then in communication with Cape
Race. Told Carpathia stand by for service message. He informs me that he
had had nothing to eat since 5.30 p. m. yesterday. 2.35 p. m. sent following to
Carpathia:
'Captain Carpathia, 7.12 p. m. G. M. T.
'Our position 41.17 north 53.53 west steering east true; shall I meet you and
where?
" Haddock.'*
2.40 p. m., communication with the S. S. Virginian (Allan). He says:
" Please tell Carpathia we have been standing by for him since he asked us to
resume our course at 9 a. m., when we were within 25 miles of him. Have
message for him." I told the Virffinian to give the Carpathia a chance as he
was so busy. 3.15 p. m., received the following from the Carpathia:
" Carpathia.
"Captain Olympic— 7.B0. G. M. T. 41.15 north longitude 51.45 west. Am
steering south 87 west true, returning to New York with Titanic' s passengers.
" ROSTBON.'*
** Cabpathia.
"Captain Olympic:
" Bruce Ismay is under opiate.
" Rostron."
" Carpathia.
" Captain Olympic :
" Do you think it is advisable Titanic' 8 passengers see Olympic? Personally
" Rostron."
"(
I say not.
tt
Carpathia.
"Captain Olympic:
" Mr. Ismay's orders Olympic not to be seen by Carpathia. No transfer to
take place.
" Rostron."
3.35 p. m., following message sent:
"Captain Carpathia:
"Kindly inform me if there is the slightest hope of searching Titanic posi-
tion at daybreak. Agree with you on not meeting: will stand on present course
until you have passed and will then haul more to southward. Does this
parallel of 41.17 north lead clear of the ice? Have you communicated the disas-
ter to our people at New York or Liverpool? Or shall I do so and what par-
ticulars can you give me to send sincere thanks for what you have done?
" Haddock."
1124 ** TITANIC " DI8ASTEB.
Q. Have you anything further from the captain of the Car-
patMaf — A. (Quoting from report:)
4.15 p. m. Told Carpaihia that we would report the information to White
Star immediately. 4.35 p. m., following service messages sent to Cape Race:
•* Oltmpic.
" ISMAY, New York and Liverpool.
" Carpaihia reached Titanic position at daybreak ; found boats and wreckage
only. Titanic had foundered about 2.20 a. m. in 41.16 north 50.14 west; all her
boats accounted for; about 675 souls saved, crew and passengers; latter nearly
all women and children ; Ley land Line S. S. Calif omian remaining and search-
ing position of disaster; Carpaihia returning to New York with survivora
Please inform Cunard.
" Haddock.*'
Q. Now, as I recollect, that was sent at 4.35 p. m.? — ^A. Yes; New
York mean time.
Q. And no trouble getting coast station? — A. That you will have
to ask Mr. Moore, the wireless operator.
Mr. MooRE (wireless operator). No, sir; none whatever.
Q. So that that was received instantlv at the coast station?—
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At Cape Race? — A. Yes.
Q. And these same messages you have just read, Captain? —
A. These did, sir.
Q. Have you anything further from the Carpaihia f — A. Yes, sir;
4.50 p. m. following service message sent to Carpathia:
Caftaiw Gabpathia:
Can you give me names sarvlvors; forward?
Haddock.
4.52 p. m. Signals with Calif omian^ who says :
We were the second boat on the scene of disaster. All we could see there
were some boxes and coats and a few empty boats and what looked lilce oil on
the water. When we were near the Carpathia he would not answer me, though
1 kept calling on him, as I wanted the position. He kept talking to the Baltic.
The latter says he Is going to report me for Jamming. We were the nearer
boat to the Carpathia. A boat called the Birma was still looking.
5.20 p. m. Calif omian sends through following ice report :
Icebergs and field ice in 42.3 north, 49.9 west, 41.34 north, 50.09 west. He
tells us he Is 200 miles out of his course.
5.45 p. m. Received following from the Carpathia:
[Private, to Capt. Haddock.]
Olympic.
Captain, chief, first, and sixth officers, and all engineers gone. Also doctor,
all pursers, one Marconi oi>erator, nnd chief steward gone. We have second,
third, fourth, and fifth officers and one Marconi operator on board.
ROBTBON.
At the same time, sir, the following:
Cabpathi.v.
Captain Olympic:
Will send names immediately we can. You can understand we are workiug
under considerable difficulty. Everything possible being done for comfort ot
survivors. Please maintain stand-by.
ROSTKON.
5.45 p. m. Carpathia then starts sending names of survivors. He
says : " Please excuse sending, but am half asleep."
7.35 p. m. Recelve<i 322 first and second class passengers' names from him.
During the transmission of the names it was evident that the operator on
Carpathia was tired out.
ii fn-rt^A-M^*^ M
TITAITIC " DI8ASTEB. 1125
7.40 p. m. Sent five private messages to the Carpathia. He says the third-
class passengers' names and list of crew will follow later.
7.50 p. m. Trying to /read Cape Race, who has a bunch of traffic for us. His
signals very weak and am interfered with by atmospherics. .We tried for some
time, btit his signals so weak impossible to read them.
8.35 p. m. Sent one private message to Calif omian asking if they had any
survivors on board from the Titanic,
8.45 p. m. Private message from the Califoitiian saying no Titanic sur-
vivors on board. Standing by for the Carpathia and calling him frequently.
Hear nothing from him. I informed the commander that I was unable to
bear anything more of Carpathia and asked, " Should I start sending list of
names to Cape Race? " He Instructed me to s«id them. 10 p. m., on the 15th.
Calling Ciipe Race with list of survivors, but can not hear him.
Q. The message that Rostron sent to the Associated Press I would
like to have in fill. — A. The time is 8.25 p. m. on Monday, the 15th.
Q. This meassage was relayed through the Olyiwpic from the
Gorpathia^ and is as follows:
Cabpathia, Cunard "New York and Liverpool:
Tttan4c struck iceberg Monday. 3 a. m., 41.16 north, 40.14 west. Oa^athia
picked up many passengers In boats. Will wire further particulars later.
Proceeding back to New York.
ROSTBON.
Q. Was this sent to the Cunard office or to the Associated Press? —
A. It was sent to the Cunard and the Associated Press.
Q. Does your memorandum show when you transmitted this mes-
sage?— ^A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just indicate, will you, please! — ^A. I sent them after I sent
the list of survivors to Cape Kace [quoting from report] :
2.30 a. m. Completed sending list of survivors' names through to Cape Race
and then start sending Carpathia'a service messages, after which received the
following from him
Q. Did you send this message from Capt. Rostron only after you
received the list or survivors? — A. Not until after I sent the list of
survivors.
Q. Then you sent this message to Capt. Rostron immediately
after sending the list of survivors, which is about 2.30 a. m. of Tues-
day, the 16th?— A. Yes.
Q, Did you have any trouble reaching Cape Race then? — A. No,
sir.
Q. That message you turned over to Cape Race Coast Station
without any difficulty? — A. Yes; I presume there were five alto-
gether, and I sent the whole five there.
Q. Do you know the reason why it was not received at the White
Star office until the 15th ? — A. No, sir.
Q. (To Mr. Moore, wireless operator.) Did you relay a message
from Mr. Ismay to Mr. Franklin, New York? — A. No, sir.
Q. That was not relayed through the Olympic? — A. No, sir.
Q. (To Capt. Haddock.) Are fliere any messages there. Captain,
that bear upon this matter ? — A. These bear on the Titcmic disaster.
Q, Have you got a copy of them ? — A. I think I can spare a copy
of it.
Q. Now, Captain, I would like to ask you when you received the
first information about the sinking of the Titanic you got this infor-
mation from the Titanic direct, that indicated the serious condition
she was in, and you went to her relief? — A. Yes, sir.
1126 *^ TITANIC " DISASTBB.
Q. On Sunday night or Monday morning you had a message
from them? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. That impressed you with its seriousness, of Nsourse? — A. Yes.
Q. At what time and at what hour did you receive your first in-
formation, whether official or unofficial, regarding the sinking? — ^A-
I just read it out to you, sir.
Q. Was that from the Carpathiaf — A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had no information from any other source than that you
have referred to of the ship bein^ sunk? — A. No, sir; none whatever.
Q. The Virginian did not advise you of any information vou were
not in possession of ?— A. No, sir.
Q. I want to get particularly to this point. The Virginian com-
municated with Cape Race and Cape Race communicated with Mon-
treal and Montreal communicated with Mr. Franklin over the tele-
phone at 2.30 Monday morning? — A. (Bv Mr. Franklin.) I called
them up about 2.30 and they replied at about 3.30. I told them of
the rumor already heard from the Associated Press, and they advised
me — about 3.30 — that they had the same rumor in Montreal.
Q. You were in position, were you not, to communicate with the
CaUfomian early Monday morning? — A. I will have to allow Mr.
Moore to answer that.
Mr. E. J. MooRE, being duly sworn, gave the following answers on
examination by Senator Smith :
Q. What is your name ? — A. Ernest James Moore.
Q. Your residence? — A. Topsham, Devonshire, England.
Q. Your business? — A. Wireless operator for the Marconi Co. on
the steamship Olympic.
Q. 4.52 p. m. on Monday the 15th — was that the first message from
the Calif omian that told of the disaster? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. And of the sinking of the ship ? — A. It does not mention that,
sir: it only says: " Saw quantity of wreckage."
Q. After that message was received, was the coast station at Cape
Race or Cape Sable communicated with giving that information? —
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you at any time instructed by anyone not to give that
information ? — A. No, sir.
Q. (To Capt. Haddock.) Were you. Captain, at any time directed
not to give any information concerning it ? — A. None whatever.
Q. And your failure to rive information in your possession was
due to what? — A. To my desire for accuracy in such cases as that,
sir.
Q. (To Operator Moore.) The Ismay message, I believe, to Isle-
frank, New York, which was handed to the Carpathia operator,
sent after the rescue, telling Mr. Franklin what had occurred, was not
sent through the Olympic?— K. No, sir; not through us.
Q. Did you receive a message from the Carpathia —
ISLBFRANK, A'eiT York:
Deeply regret advise you Titanic sank this morning after collision iceberg
resulting serious loss life. Further particulars later.
BsrcE Ism AT.
A. No such message received by me, sir.
Q. You offered to take any messages from ih^ Carpathia and com-
municate promptly with Cape Race? — A. Yes, sir.
a »^^^-^^*^ >>
TITANIC ' DISASTER. 1127
Q. At that time you were then eastward of the Carpa/hiaf — A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did the Carpathia operator make any effort to use your offer
to transmit his messages via Cape Race ? — A. No, sir.
Q. What messages did ^vou receive from the White Star Line or
Mr. Franklin from New Vork ? — A. First message received 5.20 a. m.
Monday the 15th from New York —
Capt Haddock, Olym^:
Endeavor communicate Titanic and nsoertain time and position, reply as soon
as possible to Ismay, New York.
F. W. Redway.
7.35 a. m. on the same dav :
New York.
Commander Olympic:
Keep ns posted full regarding Titanic.
Fran KIN.
7.45 a. m. :
To ISMAY, Neto York:
Since midnight when her position was 41.46 north 50.14 west have been un-
able to communicate, we are now 310 miles from her, 9 a. m., under full power,
will inform you at once if hear anything.
Commander.
Q. Did you get that message from Sable Island ? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. I want to call youi* attention to a message at 1.40 p. m. on
Monday, reading as follows :
Cafe Race and New York.
Wireless Operator, Olympic:
We will pay you liberally for story of rescue of Titanic'8 passengers.
Was anything done about that ? — A. No, sir.
Q. You rendered no special service to the World, and received
no compensation! — A. No, sir; I have received seven or eight mes-
sages to the same effect.
Q. Can you give the names of the papers ? — ^A. New York Herald,
the Sun, and the World.
Q. Evidently you did not answer all of them. — A. I did not send
to any of them. I just made a note of that message just to show
what we were receiving from time to time.
Q. Then this message was sent. New York time, Monday, the 15th,
right after 1.40? — A. Yes, sir. I then informed the operator that it
was no use sending me messages from newspapers askmg us to .send
news of the Titanic, as we had no news to give.
Q. (To Capt. Haddock.) Captain, I know you have something to
do and I want to hurrv with vou. Did vou receive anv injunction
from the officers of your company, either in Liverpool or New York,
reqiiesting you not to give out information? — A. Absolutely,. no.
Q. And your failure to give information when you first received it,
you say, was due to your desire to make it more accurate? — A.
Yes, sir.
Q. The message that you sent a little after 4 seems to be the mes-
sage that was delivered to Franklin at 6.16? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had no suggestion from Mr. Ismay that information be
withheld? — A. None whatever.
Q. And you wish to be understood as saying that no information
was withheld? — ^A. None whatever, sir.
1128 *' TITANIC '' DI8ASTEB.
Q. Do you know how it happened that the BaUie did not make ii<e
of the information they had? — A. I did not know she had any, sir:
I had not heard anything of the Baltic.
Q. The testimony of the operator was that they wished this infor-
mation from the Carpathia and Calif ormnn early Monday morning.
She was in touch with Cape Race, but she was going east and did not
give the information^ out. I wondered whether there was any con-
certed action among the steamers. — A. She was out of touch of us, sir.
Q. And you stood ready to transmit any information from the
Calif orman or Caprpathia or any other ship to the coast station re-
garding this accident, and if it was not transmitted as promptly as
it should have been it was not due to your fault, but to the fault of
those who failed to give you the information? — ^A. Yes, sir; I do not
think that anybody failed to give us the information. The Car-
paihia had at that time a terrible job on her hands.
Q. The captain of the Carpathia wired me from Gibraltar that he
gave specific instructions to relay messages from Mr. Ismay and
other messages immediately through other vessels, and the fact that
this message to Mr. Ismay was not relayed caused us some anxiety.
We could not understand it. — A. Might I ask what time this was.
sir?
Q. Mr. Ismay sent this message two hours after daylight on Monday
morning as soon as he got aboard the Carpathia^ and it was delivered
to Mr. Franklin on Wednesday the 17tn. Do you know anything
about that, Mr. Moore? — A. None whatever.
Q. When did they begin relaying messages from the Carpathia.^—
A. This message was handed in early on Monday morning and no
doubt was sent out on Monday morning early, ana they did not have
to relay it.
Q. (To Mr. Moore.) Did you receive any injunction from the
Marconi people or anyone else to withhold information? — ^A. None
whatever.
Q. You received no consideration for withholding it? — A. No:
and none was offered to us.
Q. Tell me whether it has been your practice to accept anything
for information which comes to you as a wireless operator? — A. No:
I have never received anything from anyone.
Q. Would you consider it proper to receive anything? — ^A. No,
sir: I should not.
Q. Can you tell us anything that will tend to throw any light
upon the matter we are inquiring into that you have not been sjsked ? —
A. I do not think so, sir; my report covers the whole thing as far as
we are concerned.
LOQ AS MADE BY WIB£LESS OPE&ATOE MOOBE OH 8. S.
" OLYMPIC."
[Copy furnished Senator William Alden Smith, May 26. 1912.1
SUNDAY, APRIL 14, 1912 — NEW TOBK T1M&
10.15 a. ni. : Standing by for Cape Cod.
10.45 p. ni. : Received four messages from Cai>e Cod.
10.50 p. in.: Hear Titanic signaling to some ship about striking nn iceberg.
Am not sure It is tbe Titanic who has struck an Iceberg. Am InterHered by
atmospherics and many stations working.
'* TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1129
11 p. m. : Hear Titanic sending out signals of distress, and I answered his
calls immediately.
11.10 p. m: : Titanic replies and gives me his position, 41.46 N., 50.14 W., and
says, " We have struck an iceberg." Reported this information to bridge Imme-
diately. Our distance from the Titanic 506 miles.
11.20 p. m. : Signals with the Titanic, He says, " Tell captain get your boats
ready and what is your position?"
11.35 p. m. : Sent message to Titanic: " Commander, Titanic, 4.24 a. m. G. M. T.
40.52 N., 61.18 W. Are you steering southerly to meet us? Haddock."
11.40 p. m. : Titanic says, " Tell captain we are putting the passengers off in
small boats."
11.45 p. m. : Asked Titanic what weather he had had. He says, ** Clear and
calm."
11.50 p. m. : Message to Titanic: " Commander, Titanic, Am lighting up all
possible boilers as fast as cnn. Haddock."
11.55 p. ni. : Sable Island calling me with traffic. Tlold him to stand by for
a while, as having urgent communication with Titanic,
MONDAT, AFBIL 16, 19l2— FEW YOBK TIMK.
12 30 a. m. : Signals with the S. S. Hellig OHv, His signals strong. Asked
if he knows anything of Titanic, He says, " No." Keeping strict watch, but
hear nothing more from Titanic. Calling Sable Island at intervals. No reply
from him.
4.15 a. m. to 5.20 a. m. : Calling Titanic. Now daylight; no reply. Sable
Island calls up with traffic. Received following:
New York.
Capt. Haddock, Olympic:
Endeavor communicate Titanic and ascertain time and position. Reply as
soon as possible to Ismay, New York.
F. W. Redway.
Sent following sen-ice via Sable Island:
Opebatob, Cape Race:
Have you any particulars of the Titanic?
Commander.
5.30 a. m. : Communication with La Brctagne, west bound. Ask him for newa
of Titanic, but he knows nothing.
5.40 a. m. : Signals with S. S. Asian with German oil tank in tow for Halifax.
Says, " We are only going 5 knots." Ask him for news of Titanic. Says, " I
think the Baltic was some way abend of us, say about 200 miles. He would
be passed her {Titanic) same way, I should think, but our ship AntiUian (Ley-
land), if he was on watch, should have got Titanic. He was only about 60
miles astern, so the captain calculated. Who is *M. G. Y.'V I informed him
' M. G. Y.' is the Titanic." Continues : " I last heard him at 11.58 p. m. calling
' S. O. S.* Had heard him previous to that, very faint, working to Cape Race."
(This was sent officially again later.)
Calling Titanic at intervals until —
7 a. m. : Exchanged signals with Sable Island. Distance, 205 SSE.
7.10 a. m. : Exchanged signals with Asian,
7.35 a. m. : Received following service message from Sable Island :
New York.
Commander Olympic:
Keep us posted fully regarding Titanic.
Franklin.
7.40 a. m. : Service from Cape Race via Sable, received as follows :
Your signals good here. Watch and tune for us.
Cape Race.
7.45 a. m. : Following message sent via Sable Island :
ISMAY, New York:
Since midnight, when her position was 41.46 north 50.14 west, have been
unable to communicate. We are now 310 miles from her, 9 a. m., under full
power. Will inform you at once if hear anything.
Commdr.
1130 ** TITANIC " DISASTEB,
Called Cape Race several times, but unable to hear him.
7.50 a. m. : Following message sent :
Captain Asian:
Can you give me any information TitHMic, and if any ships standing by
her?
Commander.
8.5 a. m. : Communication with S. S. Athenai. He knows nothing of Titanic.
8.6 a. m. : Communication with S. S. Scandinavian, bound east He can
give me no information either.
8.15 a. m. : Again called Cape Race, but can not hear him.
8.30 a. m. : Following service messages received from Asian confirming
previous information:
Captain Olympic:
Asian heard Titanic signaling Cape Race on and off from 8 to 10 p. m., local
time, Sunday. Messages too faint to read. Finished calling S. O. 8. midnight
Position given as latitude 41.46, longitude 50.14. No further information.
Asian then SOO miles west of Titanic and towing oil tank to Halifax.
Wood.
13th April ; iceberg reported in latitude 41.50, longitude 50.20.
Wood.
Keeping close watch until —
9.25 a. m. : Communication with S. S. Parisian. He says : " I sent traflic to
the Titanic at 8.30 last night, and I heard him send traffic Just before I went
to bed to Cape Race. I turned in at 11.15, ship's time. The Califomian was
about 50 miles astern of u& I heard following this morning, 6 o*clock :
" * Would you like me to send service message to your commander? Accord-
ing to information picked up the Oarpathia has picked up about 20 boats with
passengers. The Baltic is returning to give assistance. As regards Titanic I
have heard nothing — don't know If she is sunk.' "
(This information was given to the commander immediately verbally.)
10.10 a. m. : Sent two messages to the S. S. Berlin,
10.12 a. m. : Oommunleatlon with S. S. Mcsaba, Can give no information of
Titanic. Sends following service:
Captain Olympic:
In lat. 42 to lat. 41.25 N., long 49 W. to long. 50.36 W. saw heavy pack Ice
and a large number of Icebergs: also some field ice; weather has been very fine
and clear.
Clabk.
10.17 a. m. : Received following service from Cape Race, via Sable Island :
"No further news Titanic; we have batch traffic for you and your sigs. Good
readable here."
10.25 a. m. : Sent following service message via Sable Island :
ISMAT, New York:
Parisian reports Carpathia in attendance and picked up 20 boats of passen-
gers and Baltic returning to give assistance. Position not given.
Haddock.
10.35 a. m. : Received following message from the Parisian:
Captain Olympic:
Field ice extends to^lat. 41.22: heavy to the northwest of that and bergs
very numerous of all sizes; had fine clear weather.
Hains.
10.55 a. m. : Communication with Cape Race ; distance. 350 miles. He is Just
audible, and knows nothing more of Titanic; working Cape Race for next hour.
Sent his three and received five messages, with assistance from the Scandi-
navian, who is able to read Cape Race. The S. S. Berlin working to other shlpe
and interfering with us considerably.
Noon : Scandinavian gives " BI " for lunch, Cape Race having no important
traffic.
** TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1131
12.25 p. m. : Following service message sent to the Parisian:
Captain Parisian:
Many thanks for message. Can we steer to 41.22 north, 50.14 west from
westward, and then north to Titanic fairly free from Ice. We are due there
midnight. Should appreciate Titani&a correct position if yoH can give it me.
Haddock.
12.50 p. m. : Receiving following senice message from Parisian:
Captain Olympic:
Safe from field ice to 41.22, 50.14 ; as the ice was yesterday, you would need
to steer from that position about northeast and north to about lat 41.42 and
50, then approach his position from the westward, steering about west north-
west. My knowledge of the Titanic's position at midnight was derived from
your own message to New York, in which you gave it as 41.47, 50,20; if such
were correct, she would be in heavy field ice and numerous bergs. Hope and
trust matters are not as bad as they appear.
Hains.
1.25 p. m. : Trying to receive from Cape Race his sigs dead week, and the
Berlin is Interfering with me bndly : told the Berlin that it would be a serious
matter for him if he kept on interfering. Scandinavian assists me in receiving
from Cape Race.
1.40 p. m. : Succeeded in receiving the following message from Gape Race :
New York.
Wireless Operator, Olympic:
We will pay you liberally for story of rescue of Titanic'a passengers any
length possible for you to send earliest possible moment Mention prominent
persons.
The World.
1 then informed Cape Race that it was no use sending me messages from
newspapers asking us to send news of Titanic, as we had no news to give. If
he had no important traffic he had better stand-by, as it was most important
that I should get hold of some ship who has news of the Titanic, Cape Race
says, " We must clear traffic, as all the messages are paid for."
Called " CQ " to stand-by.
2 p. m. : Establish communication with the S. S. Carpathia; ask him for
news of the Titanic. He says, " I can't do everything at once. Patience, please."
Then continues, " I received distress signals from the Titanic at 11.20, and we
proceeded right to the spot mentioned. On arrival at daybreak we saw
field ice 25 miles, apparently solid, and a quantity of wreckage and a number
of boats full of people. We raised about 670 souls. The Titanic has sunk.
She went down in about two hours. Captain and all engineers lost. Our
captain sent order that there was no need for Baltic to come any farther. So
with that she returned on her course to Liverpool. Are you going to resume
your course on that information? We have two or three officers aboard and
the second Marconi operator, who had been creeping his way through water
30 "^ sometime. Mr. Ismay aboard." This information was reported to the
commander immediately. I informed the Carpathia that if he had any im-
portant traffic to get through I would take it for him, as I was then In communi-
cation with Cape Race.
Told Carpathia bi for service message. He informs me that he has had
nothing to eat since 5.30 p. m., yesterday.
2.35 p. m. : Sent following to Carpathia:
"Captain Carpathia:
"7.12 p. m. G. M. T. Our position 41.17 N. 53.53 W. Steering east, true;
shall I meet you and where.
" Haddock."
2.40 p. m. : Communication with the S. S. Virginian (Allan). He says please
tell Carpathia we have been standing by for him since he asked us to resume
our course at 9 a. m., when we were within 25 miles of him. Have message for
him. I told the Virginian to give the Carpathia a chance, as he was so busy.
1132 '* TITANIC " DI8ASTBB.
3.15 p. m. : Received the following from the Carpath4a:
" Cabpathia.
" Captain Olympic :
" 7.30. G. M. T. Lat. 41.15 north, long. 51.45 west Am steering south 87
west, true. Retumjng to New York with Titanic^s passengers.
" ROSTBON."
" Carpathia.
"Captain Olympic:
" Bruce Ismay Is under opiate.
** Babtbon."
" Carpathia,
" Captain Olympic :
" Do you think It is advisable Titanic's passengers see Olvfnpicf Personally
X say not.
" ROSTBOir.'*
** Carpathia.
" Captain Olympic :
Mr. Ismay orders Olympic not to be seen by Carpathia, No transfer to take
^^^^^ " ROSTBON."
Following message sent:
" Captain Carpathia :
" Kindly inform me if there is the slightest hope of searching Titanic position
at daybreak. Agree with you on not meeting. Will stand on present course
until you have passed and will then haul more to southward. Does this parallel
of 41.17 N. lead clear of the Ice? Have you communicated the disaster to our
people at New York or Liverpool, or shall I do so, and what particulars can
you give me to send?
" Sincere thanks for what you have done. Haddock."
4 p. m. : Following from Carpathia:
" Carpathia.
"Cnpt. Haddock, Olympic:
" South point pack Ice 41.16 north. Don't attempt to go north until 49.30
west. Many bergs, large and small, amongst pack. Also for many miles
to eastward. Fear absolutely no hope searching Titanic'8 position. Left Ley-
land S. S. Galifornian searching around. All boats accounted for. About 675
souls saved, crew and passengers; latter nearly all women and children.
Titanic foundered about 2.20 a. m., 5.47 G. M. T., in 41.16 north, 50.14 west;
not certain of having got through. Please forward to White Star, also to
Cunard, Liverpool and New York, that I am returning to New York. Consider
this most advisable for many considerations.
" Rostron."
4.15 p. m. : Told Carpathia that we would report the information to White
Star and Cunard Immediately.
4.35 p. m. : Following service messages sent to Cape Race :
" Olympic.
** ISMAV, New York and Liverpool:
** Carpathia reached Titanic position at daybreak. Found boats and wreckage
only. Titamic had foundered about 2.20 a. m. in 41.16 N., 50.14 W. AH hei
boats accounted for. About 675 souls saved, crew and passengers ; latter nearly
all women and children. Leyland Line S. 8. Califomian remaining and search-
ing position of disaster. Carpathia returning to New York with survivors.
Please inform Cunard.
" Haddock."
" Olympic.
"Franklin Ismay, New York:
" Inexpressible sorrow. Am proceeding straight on voyage. Carpathia 1d-
forms me no hope in searching. Will send names survivors as obtainable.
Yamsi on Carpathia,
" Haddock.'*
4.50 p. m. : Following service message sent to Carpathia:
" C vPTAiN Carpathia :
" Can you give me names survivors forward?
" Haddock.**
'* TITANIC " DISASTER. 1133
4.52 p. m. : Signals with Calif omia^ij who says : '* We were the second boat on
the scene of disaster. All we could see there were some boxes and. coats and a
few empty boats and what looked like oil on the water. When we were near
the Carpathia he would not answer me, though I kept on calling him, as I
wanted the position. He kept on talking to the Baltic. The latter says he is
going to report me for Jnmming. We were the nearer boat to the Carpathia.
A tKiat called the Birma was still looking.*'
Informed the CalifonHan that would take note of fact that in cases of distress
nearer ships should have precedence.
5.20 p. m. : Calif omian sends through following ice report : Icebergs and
field ice in 42.3 north 49.9 west; 41.33 north, 50.09 west. He tells us he Is
200 miles out of his course.
5.45 p. m. : Received following from the Carpathia:
[Priyate. to Capt. Haddoclc, Olympic^
'* Captain: Chief, first, and sixth officers, and all engineers gone; also doctor;
all pursers; one Marconi operator, and chief steward gone. We have second,
third, fourth, and fifth officers and one Marconi operator on board.
" ROSTBON."
" Cabpatiiia.
"Captain Olympic:
" Will send names immediately we can. You can understand we are working
under considerable difficulty. Everything possible being done for comfort of
survivora Please maintain Stanbi.
" RoSTBON."
Carpathia then starts sending names of survivors. He says : " Please excuse
sending, but am half asleep."
7.35 p. m. : Received 322 first and second class passengers' names from him.
During the transmission of the names it was evident that the operator on
Carpathia was tired out.
7.40 p. m. : Seven forty sent five private messages to the Carpathia. He
says the third-class passengers' names and list of crew will follow later.
7.50 p. m. : Trying to read Cape Race, who has a bunch of traffic for us. His
signals very weak and am interfered with by atmospherics. We try for some
time, but his signals so weak impossible to hear him.
8.25 p. m. : Received following messages from the Carpathia for retransmis-
sion to Cape Race :
" Gabpathia.
" CUNABD, Ifew York, 7.55 a. m.
"New York, lat 41.45 north, long. 50.20 west. Orfanello New York unless
otherwise ordered with about Impusieron Calamarais with Mr. Ismay and
Bonplandie with so much ice about consider New York best. Large number
of icebergs and twenty miles of field ice with bergs amongst.
" RoSTBON."
" Carpathia, Cunard. Liverpool." (Text same as last message.)
" Cabpathia.
•* Cunard, New York and Liverpool.
Titanic struck iceberg Monday 3 a. m., 41.46 north. 50.14 west Carpathia
picked up many passengers in boats. Will wire further particulars later.
Proceeding back to New York.
" ROSTBON."
((
Carpathia, Associated Press, New York." (Text same as last message.)
Asked Carpathia if he had list of third-class and crew survivors ready. He
says: "No; -will send them soon."
8.35 p. m. Sent one private message to Califomian asking if they had
any aurvivors on board from the Titanic.
8.45 p. m. : Private message from the Califomian saying no Titanic survivors
on board. Standing by for the Carpathia and calling him frequently. Hear
nothing from him. I informed the commander that 1 was unable to hear any-
thing more of Carpathia and asked. " Should I start sending list of names to
Cape Race?" He Instructed me to send them.
1134 *' TITANIC " DISASTER.
10 p. m. : Calling Cape Race with list of survivors, but can not hear bim.
10.dO p. m. : Sable Island answers me and offers traffic. Told him I have
list of survivors here and ask him to take them. Sable Island gives "O. K./'
and I commence sending them to him.
TUESDAY, APRIL 16, 1012.
12.20 a. m. : Cape Race breaks in. His signals good ; says he can read me
OJ and that he has already been receiving names I have been sending to Sable
Island; so as Cape Race is strong and Sable Island very difficult to read on
account of atmospherics, I send the remaining names to Cape Race.
2.30 a. m. : Completed sending list of survivors' names through to Cape Race,
and then start sending Carpathians service messages, after which received the
following from him :
"New York.
** Capt. Haddock, Olympic:
" It is vitally important that we have names of every survivor on Carpathia
Immediately. If you can expedite this by standing by the Carpathia please
do so.
" Franklin/'
2.55 a. m. :
" New York.
" Captain Olympic :
" Wireless name of every passenger, officer, crew of Carpathia; it is most
important. Keep in communication with the Carpathia to accomplish this.
Instruct CaUfomian stand by scene of wreck until she hears from us or is
relieved or her coal supply runs short. Ascertain Califomian^s coal and how
long she can stand by. Has life raft been accounted for? Are you absolutely
satisfied that Carpathia has all survivors, as we heard a rumor that Virginian,
Parisian also had survivors? Where is Baltic?
** Franklin.'*
"New York.
" Captain Olympic :
"Distressed to learn from your message that Carpathia is only steamer
with passengers. W^e understand Virginian and Parisian also has passengers,
and are you in communication with them and can you get any information?
" B'ranklin.*'
3.10 a. m. : Now daylight. Cape Race's signals die off.
3.35 a. m. : Signals with the Virginian, He says, " We were requested by
Carpathia to resume our course at the same time as the Baltic, We got within
25 miles of the Titanic. I heard her distress signal calls, and we went to her
right away. We had 200 miles to go.'
ff
Received following service message:
8.45 a. m. :
" VlROIKIAN.
"Captain Olympic:
" Hear rumors that we have survivors of Titanic on board. This Is not so.
I have none. At 10 a. m* yesterday, when 30 miles from position of disaster,
received Marconi from Marconi, as follows:
" * Turn back now. Everything O. K. We have 800 aboard. Return to your
northern track.' I consequently proceeded on my course to Liverpool. Similar
instructions were sent at same time to the Baltic from Carpathia, I passed a
large quantity of heavy field ice and bergs. Compliment&
"GAlflUELL.''
BT SENATOB WHUAH ALDEN SMITH, OH SATUBDAT, KAY 26, DT
THE FIBEBOOH OH BOABD S. S. '' OLTHPIC," HEW TOBE.
Examination of Frederick Barrett.
Q. What is your name? — A. Frederick Barrett.
Q. Place of residence ? — A. Southampton.
ti rn^mA-M^-rr^ "
TITANIC ' DISASTER. 1185
Q. You were a fireman on the Titanic f — A. I was leading fireman.
Q. Were you on duty on the night of the accident? — A. Yes.
Q. Where? — ^A. In 6 section.
Q. Were you there when the accident occurred? — ^A. Yes. I was
standing talking to the second engineer. The bell rang, the red light
showed. We sang out shut the doors [indicating the asa doors to the
furnaces] and there was a crash just as we sung out. The water
came through the ship's side. The engineer and I jumped to the
next section. The next section to the forward section is No. 5.
Q. Where did the water come through? — A. About 2 feet above
the floor plates, starboard side.
Q. How much water? — ^A. A large volume of water came through.
Q. How big was this hole in the side? — A. About 2 feet above the
floor plates.
Q. You think it was a large tear? — ^A. Yes; I do.
Q. All along the side of No. 6 ?— A. Yes.
Q. How far alon^? — A. Past the bulkliead between sections 5 and
6, and it was a h^e 2 feet into the coal bunkers. She was torn
through No. 6 and also through 2 feet abaft the bulkhead in the
bunker at the forward head of No. 5 section. We got through before
the doors broke, the doors dropped instantly, automatically from the
bridge. I went back to No. 6 fireroom and there was 8 feet of water
in there. I went to No. 6 fireroom when the lights went out. I was
sent to find lamps, as the lights were out^ and when we got the lamps
we looked at the boilers and there was no water in them. I ran to
the engineer and he told me to get some firemen down to draw the
fires. I got 15 men down below.
Q. Did you not have fires in No. 6? — A. Yes, the fires were lit
when the water came.
Q. I would like to know how many boilers were going that
night? — A. There were five boilers not lit.
Q. How manv were there going? — A. There was 24 boilers lit and
five without. Fires were lighted in three boilers for the first time
Sunday, but I don't know whether they were connected up or not.
Q. This tear went a couple of feet past the bulkhead in No. 5.
How were you able to keep the water from reaching A. It never
came above the plates, until all at once I saw a wave of green foam
come tearing through between the boilers and I jumped for the escape
ladder.
Q. Was there any indication of any explosion of a boiler? — A.
There was a knocking noise, but no explosion, only when the ship
was sinking a volume of smoke came up.
Q. Can you tell us how long you have been on the Titanic? — ^A. I
onlv joinea it at Southampton.
Q. How did you escape * — A. I got in lifeboat 13.
Q. Was it a collapsible boat? — A. I can not tell.
Q. You were in charge of No. 13 for about an hour — how many
were in that boat?— ^A. Sixty-five or 70.
Q. How many sailors? — A. I can not tell.
Q. What oflBcer was in charge? — ^A. No officer in it. Because I
had no clothes I felt myself giving out and gave it to somebody else.
I do not know who it was.
404713— PT 14—12 2
1136 ** TITANIO *' DISASTER.
Q. Was there any objection to your getting into the boat! — ^A.
No. sir.
Q. Where was it loaded? — A. At A deck. It was lowered to A
deck. They were venr full up when we got in.
Q. Was there an officer there at the time ? — A. No, sir.
Q. You got in and took charge of the boat and remained in charge
until you got chilled? — ^A. Yes.
Q. Then who took it over? — ^A. I could not say who it was.
Q. Was there any large number of people in A deck at the time
you got up there? — A. There was not, sir.
Q. How did you reach A deck? — A. I came up alon^ the hatchway.
Q. Did you meet any third-class passengers ? — ^A. No, sir.
Q. Were they held off in any way ? — A. No, sir.
Q. They had the same privilege to go up on A deck? — ^A. Thej
had as much privilege as anybody else. About this signal [indi-
cating].
Q. The white light up there indicates full speed ? — ^A. Yes.
Q. When you received the red signal the white disappears? —
A. A bell rings when the signal appears.
Q. When the bell rings you look up there and see the signal
light? — ^A. Yes, sir.
Q. The white light indicates full speed, and that was the light
shown that Sunday night up to the time you got the red-light signal
to stop, which was just before the collision? — ^A. Yes.
Q. And that was the first time during the voyage that the 24
boilers were running? — A. Yes.
INTEBNATIONAL MERCANTILE MARINE Oo.,
yew York, May 25, 1912.
Senator William Alden Smith,
United Statea Senate, Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: Inclosed please find letter addressed to yon which we have re-
ceived from Capt. Lord of the steamer Califomian, dated Liverpool, May 11.
Yours, truly,
P. A. S. Franklin,
Vice President,
S. S. " Californdln,"
Liverpool, May 11, 1912.
Senator Smith.
Sir: After leaving Boston I found that I had unintentionally given a wrong
reply to one of your questions. You asked me, " Could I give you the temi)^*a-
ture of the water from my log book." I replied, " No ; but I could give it to
you from memory," which I did.
The log books I have always used have not had a colunm for temperature of
water, but this voyage we have had a new type of book, which has the column
in. Although I had the log book at the time you asked me, my reply ¥ras based
on the ones I had always been in the habit of using. Below I give you the
temperature of air and water from noon April 14 to noon April 15.
I am, sir, yours, respectfully,
Stanley Lord.
I Air. Water.
I
Aprlll4— Noon 50 56
4p.in 87 > 36
8p. m 90 S2
Midnight 27 28
Aprill5— 4 b. m 29 29
8 a. m
Noon 38 Si
(<
TITANIC " DISASTER. 1137.
Senator Smith. I submit, to be printed in the record, the follow-
ing affidavit of James R. McGough:
I. James R. Mc(iour1i, do depose and say that I was a passenger on the
Steamship Titanic on Smiday, April 14, 11)12. the time of the disaster; that I
live in Philadelphia, Ta. ; that I am 36 years of age; and I hereby make the
following statement:
I was awakened at 11.40 p. m., ship time: my stateroom was on the starboard
side — deck K — and was shared with me by Mr. Flynn, a buyer for Glmbel
Bros., New York, at Thirty-third and Broadway. Soon after leaving our state-
room we came in contact with the second dining-room steward, Mr. Dodd, In
the companionway, of whom we asked the question, ** Is there any danger?"
and he answered, " Not in the least,'* and suggeste<l that we go back to bed,
which we did not. however, do.
It wfis our intention to go up on the promenade deck, but before doing so
1 rapped on the door of the stateroom opposite mine, which was occupied by a
1.1 dy, and suggested to her that she had better get up at once and dress, as
there was apparently something wrong.
Mr. Flynn and I then ascended to promenade deck A, and after being up
there about 10 minutes were notified to put on life preservers as a matter of
precaution. We then had to go all the way from promenade deck back to
our stateroom, which was on E deck. After procuring our life preservers we
went back again to the top deck, and after reaching there discovered that
orders had been given to launch the lifeboats, and that they were already being
launched at that time.
They called for the women and children to board the boats first. Both
women and men, however, hesitated, and did not feel inclined to get Into the
small boats, thinking the larger boat was the safer. I had my back turned look-
ing in the opposite direction at that time and was caught by the shoulder by
one of the officers, who gave me a push, saying, " Here, you are a big fellow ;
get into the boat."
Our boat was launched with 2S people: we. however, transferred 5 from
ono of the other boats after we were out In the ocean, which as some time
after the ship went down.
When our lifeboats left the vessel, we were directed to row away a short
distance from the large boat, feeling It would be but a short time until we
would be taken back on the Titanic. We then rested on our oars; but after
realizing that the Titanic was really sinking, we rowed away for about half
a mile, being afraid that the suction would draw us down.
Although there were several of us wanted drinking water, it was imknown to
us that there was a tank of water and also some crackers in our boat, having
no light on our boat ; and we did not discover this fact — that Is, as to the tank
of water — ^iintll after reaching the Carpnthia.
The following questions are asked by Mr. O'Donnell :
Q. Do you know anything about the wireless? — A. No.
Q. Did you see the captain at any time after being awakened? — ^A. No.
Q. Did you see any neglect of duty by the crew at the offset? — A. No; they
were all calm and apparently well disciplined : there was no panic at all.
Q. Have you any complaint to make in regard to the officers or crew? —
A. No.
Q. Did you see any other ships or lights? — ^A. I saw lights, but was told they
were from our own life-saving boats.
Q. Did you hear any guns or revolvers fired? — ^A. No.
Q, Which side of the ship were you on? — ^A. Starboard side.
Q. Did you see any one drunk, or drinking, on the Titanic during your voy-
age?— ^A. I saw no one dmnk.
Q. How fast was the Titanic going at the time of the accident? — A. I do not
know.
Q. Did you see Ismay at any time after you awakened? — A. No.
Q. Did Vou see any Ice? — A. Not until the next morning, as I had gone to
bed at 10 o'clock, and was asleep.
Q. Did you hear any groans or moaning after you got into the lifeboat? —
A* Yea.
Q. Do you think if the crew on the lifeboat had gone back they could have
picked up some of the passengers who were in the water? — ^A. I could not
say; but some of the women passengers objected to our making the effort.
1138 *' TITANIC '* DISASTER.
Q. Did the captain or officers tell the steward to call the passengers on one
side only, and what was the purpose? — ^A. I do not know.
Q. State further anything else you know? — A. The above Is a complete
statement from the time of the aecidemt until the time I got on board the
Carpathia,
Q. Were you fully dressed? — ^A. I was fully dressed.
It is hereby certified that the within statement is true and correct, to the best
of my knowledge and belief.
Jakes R. McGough.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 1st day of May, A. D. 1912.
Ed. O'Donnell,
Chief Deputy United States Marshal,
Senator Smith. I submit, to be printed in the record, the following
affidavit of Catherine E. Crosby :
State of Wisconsin,
Milwaukee County^ ss:
Catherine E. Crosby, being first duly 8wom. upon her oath says that she is
the widow of Capt. Edward Giflford Crosby, deceased; that she resides at 474
Marsliall Street, city of Milwaiil«ee. which is her home.
Deponent further says that, on the 10th day of April, 1912, at Southampton.
England, she embarlced as a passenger on the steamer Titanic for the |>rtrt of
New Yorlt ; that her husband, Edward fi. Crosby, and her daughter. Harriette
R. Crosby, were with her on said steamer; that she and her husband occupie<l
stateroom No. 22 and her daughter occupied stateroom No. 26. they being
first-class passengers on said steamer. Deponent noticed nothing unusual or
out of the ordinary, either in the euipment of the vessel or in the handlUig of
her, and nothing unusual occurred until Sunday, the 14th day of April. 1912,
when deponent noticed that the seamen on board the Titanic were taking the
temperature of the water on the afternoon of that day, and it was stated by
those engaged in doing this that the temperature of the water was colder and
indicated that the boat was in the vicinity of ice fields; this was about the mid-
dle of the afternoon, as I recollect it.
At that time my husband and I were walking up and down the promenade
deck, which, as I recollect it, was the deck below the hurricane deck, and it
was while we were walking up and down this deck that I first noticed these
seamen taking the temperature of the water. My husliand was a sailor all his
lifetime, and he told me all about it, and it was from that that I knew what they
were doing. I could see what they were doing. My husband retired at about
9 o'clock that evening, and I retired about 10.30. Elmer Taylor, one of the
imssengers who went over with us on the steamer, told me afterwards, when
we were on the Carpathia, that at the time I retired tliat night he noticed the
boat was going at full speed. I had not retired long wlien I was suddenly
awakened by the thumping of the boat. The engines stopped suddenly. This
was about 11.30. Capt. Crosby got up, dressed, and went out, and came back
again and said to me, *.' You will lie there and drown,** and went out agaiu.
He said to my daughter, "The boat is badly damaged; but I think the water-
tight compartments will hold her up." I then got up and dressed, and my
daughter dressed, and followed my husband on deck, and she got up on deck,
and the oflicer told her to go back and get on her life preserver and come back
on deck as poon as possible. She reported tliat to me, and we both went out
on dock where the officer told us to come. I think it was the first or second
boat that we got hi to. I do not recollect other boats being lowered at that
time ; I did not see them. This was on the left-hand side where the officer told
us to come, and it was the deck above the one on which our staterooms were
located; our staterooms were located on the B deck, and we went to the A
deck where the officer and lifeboat were. We got into the lifebtuit that was
hanging over the rail alongside the deck ; we got in and men and women, with
their families, got in the boat with us; there was no discrimination betw^een
men and women. About 36 i)ersons got in the boat with us. There were only
two officers in the boat, and the rest were all first-class passengers. My hus-
band did not come back again after he left me, and I don't know what be<*ame
of him, except that his body was found and brought to Milwaukee and burled.
There were absolutely no lights in the lifeboats, and they did not even know
whether the plug was in the bottom of the boat to prevent the Iwat from
** TITANIC *' DISASTER. 1139
sinking; there were no lanterns, no provisions, no lights, nothing at all in
these boats but the oars. One of the officers asl^ed one of the passengers for
a match with which to light up the bottom of the boat to see if the plug was
in place; the officers rowed the boat a short distance. from the Titanic, and
I was unable to see the lowering of any other boats, and we must have rowed
quite a distance, but could see the steamer vei*y plainly; saw them firing
rockets, and heard a gun fired us distress signals to indicate that the steamer
was in danger ; we continued a safe distance away from the steamer, probably
a quarter of a mile at least, and finally saw the steamer go down very dis-
tinctly; we did not see nor hear about any trouble on the steamer that is
reported to have taken place afterwards; we got away first, and got away a
safe distance, so that we could not see nor hear what took place, until th<;
Rteamer went down, which was about 2.20 a. m. on the morning of the 15th;
I heard the terrible cries of the people that were on board when the boat
went down, and heard repeated explosions, as though the boilers had ex-
ploded, and we then knew that the steamer had gone down, as her lights were
out, and the cries of the people and the explosions were terrible; our boat
drifted around in that vicinity until about daybreak, when the Carpathia was
sighted and were taken on board; we had to row quite a long time and
quite a distance before we were taken on board the Carpathia; I was sufl'ering
from the cold while I was drifting around, and one of the officers put a sail
around me and over my head to keep me warm, and I was hindered from
seeing any of the other lifeboats drifting in the vicinity or obsen-e anything
that took place while we were drifting around until the Carpathia took us on
board; we received very good treatment on the Carpathia, and finally arrived
in New York; it was reported on the Carpathia by passengers, whose names I
do not recollect, that the lookout who was on duty at the time the Titanic
struck the iceberg had said : *' I know they will blame me for it, because I
was on duty, but it was not my fa nit; I had warned the officers three or four
times before striking the iceberg that we were in the vicinity of icebergs, but
the officers on the bridge paid no attention to my signals." I can not give the
name of any passenger who made that statement, but it was common talk on
the Carpathia that that is what the lookout said.
I don't know anything about workmen being on the boat, and that the boat
was not finished, and that the water-tight compartments refused to work; I
have read it in the papers, but personally I know nothing about it; I also
heard that there were no glasses on board the vessel ; they were loaned from
a vessel to be used on the voyage from Liverpool to Southampton and then
returned to tiie vessel, and the Titanic proceeded without any glasses; Mr.
Elmer Taylor informed me after we got on the Carpathia that a dinner was
in progress at the time the boat struck ; this banquet was given for the captain,
and the wine flowed freely; personally I know nothing about this; I do not
recollect anything of importance that occurred any more than I have stated.
Catherine E, Crosby.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of May, 1912.
Max C. Kravse.
Votary Public, Milwaukee County, Wis.
My commission expires September 13, 1914.
Senator Smith. I submit also to be printed in the record the fol-
lowing letter from Mr. William Shelley, transmitting the accom-
panying affidavit of Mrs. Imanita Shelley :
P. O. Box 597,
Deer Lodge, Mont., May 15, 1912,
Hon. William Alden Smith.
Chairtnan Titanic InvcHtigntion Committee, Washington, D, C,
Dear Sir: Inclosed herewith find sworn statement of Imanita Shelley (Mrs.
Willinni Shelley) in rejrard to the Titanic disaster. If tliere are any other iK>lnts
3'ou would like more llpht upon please send us list of questions, and Mrs.
Shelley will answer them before a notary and to the best of her ability.
In the inclosed stntement no mention wns mode of the fact that Mrs. Shelley
was charged £1 Enjrlish money for a wireless message to her husband, at Deer
Ix^dge, Mont., which aerogram was never delivered. In New York City Mrs.
Shelley was informed that several other passengers had also paid for aero-
grams which had failed to reach their destination.
1140 *' TITANIC " DISASTER.
As this subject was caused by the wireless operator on board the Carpaihia,
It was not Included in her statement of facts concerning the Titanic' s adminis-
tration.
Yours, very truly, Whxiam Shetxey.
AFFIDAVIT.
State of Montana, County of PoioeU, 88,
Mrs. Imanita Shelley, of lawful age, being first duly sworn as regards the
Titanic disaster, on her oath deposes and says:
That her mother, Mrs. Lutie Davis Parrish, of Woodford CJounty, Ky., and
herself embarked on the White Star Steamship Titanic at Southampton. Eng-
land, upon the 10th day of April, 1912, having purchased the best second-class
accommodation sold by said company.
That instead of being assigned to the accommodation purchased, were taken
to a small cabin many decks down in the ship, which was so small that it
could only be called a cell. It was imp9ssible to open a regulation steamer
trunk in said cabin. It was impossible for a third person to enter said cabin
unless both occupants first of all crawled Into their bunks.
That the stewardess was sent to the chief purser demanding transfer to
accommodation purchased. That he replied he could do nothing until the boat
had left Queenstown, Ireland, when he would check up all tickets and find
out if there was any mistake.
That after leaving Queenstown Mrs. L. D. Parrish made 11 trips herself to
the purser asking for transfer, only to be put oflP with promises. That at
0 o'clock p. m., no one having come to take them to better quarters, Mrs. Shelley
wrote a note to the purser to the effect that she had paid for the best seoond-
clasR accommodation on the ship and had the receipts to prove It; that she
was very 111 and, owing to the freezing cold of the cabin, was in great dan-
ger: that if he, the purser, refused to act she, Mrs. Shelley, would appeal to
the captain: that if neither would act she realized she would have to wait
until reaching America for redress, but most assuredly would claim damages
If she lived to reach her native land.
That the result of this letter was the arrival of four stewards to carry her
to the room paid for, who offered apology after apology.
That the stewardess, on being asked what the purser had said on reulinj;
the note, replied : " He asked first if you were really so very sick, to which
1 answered there was no doubt about that. Then the purser asked me if there
was such a cabin on board the Titanic where a cabin trunk could not be opened:
to which 1 replied in the affirmative. I also told him that the cabin was en-
tirely too small for two women, and that two men could not hardly fit In : that
it was impossible for myself or the steward to enter the cabin to wait upon
the occupants unless both of them first climbed into their berths. The purser
then told me that he would have to act at once, or the company would get into
trouble."
That after being trnnsferred to this new cabin the second-class physician.
Dr. Simpson, called from three to four times a day; that he feared the attack
of tonsllltls brought on by the chill would become dlphtheretic and ordered
Mrs. Shelley to remain in her cabin.
That this cabin, though large and roomy, was not furnished in the comfort-
able manner as the same accommodation procured on the Cunard and other
lines: that It looked In a half-finished condition: that this room was Just as
cold as the cell from which we had been removed, and on asking the steward
to have heat turned on, he answered that it was impossible, as the heating
system for the second-class cabins refused to work. That of all the second-
class cabins, only three — the three first cabins to be reached by the heat — had
any heat at all, and that the heat was so intense there that the occupants hnd
complained to the purser, who had ordered the heat shut off entirely; conse-
quently the rooms were like Ice houses all of the voyage, and Mrs. L. D. Par-
rish, when not waiting on her sick daughter, was obliged to go to bed to keep
warm.
That afterwards, when on board the Garpathia, Mrs. Shelley took pains to
Inquire of steerage passengers as to whether or not they bad heat in the steer-
age of the Titanic and received the answer that there was the same trouble
with their heating plant, too.
** TITANIC '* DISASTER. 1141
That although the servants on board were most wUllnj?, they had a hard time
to do their work ; that the stewardess conld not even get a tray to servo Mrs.
Shelley's meals and had to bring the plates and dishes one at a time in her
hands, making the service very slow and annoying. The food, though good
and plentiful, was ruined by this trouble in serving. That although both
steward and stewardess appealed time and time again to the heads of their
departments, no relief was obtained; there seemed to be no organization at all.
That hi the ladies' toilet room only part of the fixtures had been Installed,
some of the said fixtures being still in crates.
That in the early evening of the night of the accident the temperature had
fallen considerably, so that all on board realized we were In the ice belt.
There were rumors of wireless messages from other ships warning of Ice-
bergs close at hand. It was also reported that certain first-class passengers
had asked If the ship was to slow down whilst going through the ice beltR and
had been told by the captain that, on the contrary, the ship would be speeded
through.
That at the moment of the collision we were awakened out of sleep by the
shock, and especially by the stopping of the engines. That excited voices
were heard outside In the passage saying that an Iceberg had been run Into.
That after continued ringing of the steward bell a steward, but not the regu-
lar one, came and Insisted that all was well and for all passengers to go back
to bed. Afterwards, on board the Carpathia, a first-cabin passenger, a Mme.
Baxter, of Montreal, Canada, told Mrs. Shelley that she had sent her pon to
the captain at the time of the collision to find out what to do. That her son
had found the captain In a card game, and he had laughingly assured hlni that
there was no danger and to advise his mother to go back to bed.
That about three-quarters of an hour after returning to their berths a steward
came running down the passage bursting open the cabin doors and calling "All
on deck with life belts on." That this steward brought Mrs. Parrlsh and Mrs.
Shelley each a life belt and showed them how to tie them on. That tliey wore
told to go up to the top deck, the boat deck. That as Mrs. Shelley wrs very
weak. It took Feveral minutes to reach the upper deck. That Mr. and Mrs.
Isidore Strauss, who had known of Mrs. Shelley being so 111, met them on the
way and helped them to the upper deck, where they found a chair for hor and
made her sit down.
That owing to the great number of persons on the deck Mrs. Shelley was not
able to see anything of the handling of bohts except the one she herself was
placed In. There was practically no excitement on the part of anyone during
this time, the majority seeming to think that the big boat could not sink alto-
gether, and that It was better to stay on the steamer than tn'ist to the little
boats. After sitting In the chair for about five minutes one of the sailors ran
to Mra Shelley and Implored her to get In the lifeboat that was then being
launched. Tfe Informed Mrs. Shelley that It was the last boat on the ship.
and that unless she got Into this one she would have to take her chances on
the steamer, and that as she bad been so sick she ought to take to the boat
and make sure. Mrs. Strauss advlRe<l taking to the boats, and, pushinir l^.er
mother toward the sailor. Mrs. Shelley made for the davits where the bonf hung.
It was found Impossible to swing the davits In, which left a space of between
4 and 5 feet between the edge of the deck and the suspended boat. The sailor
picked up Mrs. Parrish and throw her bodily Into the boat. Mrs. Shelley jinnped
and landed safely. That two men of the ship's crew manned this boat at
the time of launching, one of whom said he was a stoker and the other
a ship's baker. That at the time of launching these were the only men in the
boat. That at the time of lowering the boat it seemed to be as full of pas-
sengers as the seating capacity called for, but owing to the excitement no
thought of numbers entered Mrs. Shelley's head. The boat appeared to be
filled with as many as could get In without overcrowding, all of them women
and children, with the exception of the two mentioned above.
That on trying to lower the boat the tackle refused to work and U took con-
siderable time, about 15 minutes. It Is believed, to reach the water. That on
reaching the water the castlng-off apparatus would not work and the ropes had
to be cut.
That just as they reached the water a crazed Italian jumped from the deck
Into the lifeboat, landing on Mrs. Parish, severely bruising her right side and
leg. This gave them one extra man.
After cutting loose from the ship the orders were to pull out toward the other
boats and get as far away from the probable suction which would ensue If the
1142 *^ TITANIC '* DISASTER.
Btenmer should sink. Orders were also ^ven to keep in sljrht of the greeu li^t
of the ship's boat which had been sent out ahead to look for help. That
on reaching a distance of about 100 yards from the TitanU- n loud exploeloD
or noise was heard, followed closely by another, and the sinking of Che big
vessel began.
Throughout the entire period from the striking of the icebergs and taking to
the boats the ship's crew behaved in an ideal manner. Not a man tried to get
into a boat unless ordered to, and many were seen to strip off their clothing and
wrap around the women and children who came up hnlf clad from their beds.
Mrs. Shelley feels confident that she speaks the truth when she says that with
the exception of those few men ordered to man the boats all other sailors saved
had gone down with the ship and were miraculously saved afterwards. Mrs.
Shelley says that no crew could have behaved in a more verted manner and
that they proved themselves men in every sense of the word. That after the
sinking of the ship the boat they were in picked up several struggling in the
water and were fortunate enough to rescue 30 sailors who had gone down with
the ship, but who had been most miraculously blown out of the wati^r after one
of the explosions and been thrown near a derelict collapsible boat to which they
had managed to cling. That after taking all these men on board the boat was
so full that many feared they would sink, and it was suggested that some of
the other boats should take some of these rescued ones on board ; but they re-
fused, for fear of sinking.
Mrs. Shelley states that she does not know what the official number of her
lifeboat was, nor the official numbers of the boots finally rescued by the Car-
pat hia; that on conversing with members of the crew and other survivors on
board the Carpathia it was told Mrs. Shelley that 13 boats had been picked up:
that the first boat to be picked up by the Catj>athia was what was called the
signal boat — the one with the green light — which all followed as a inilde and
which had been picked up about 3 or half past 3 in the morning : that the boat
Mrs. Shelley was in was picked up shortly after 8 o'clock In the morning.
That as to equipment of the Ufelwats there was none In her boat except
four oars and a mast, which latter was useless; that there was no water nor
any food; that there was neither compass nor binnacle light nor any kind
of lantern; that on questioning occupants of other lifeboats they told her the
same story — lack of food, water, compass, and lights, and that several boats
had no oars or only two or three.
That one of the Titanic^s crew Who was saved told that no positions had
been assigned to any of the crew in regard to lifeboat service, ns Is the rule,
and that that was one of the reasons of the confusion in. assigning men to
manage the lifeboats when the accident did occur.
That right after the Titanic began to sink a steamer was sighted about 2
miles away, and all were cheered up, as it was figured that they would all be
picked ui) Inside an hour or so; that, however, fheir hopes were l>lighted when
the steamer's lights suddenly disappeared. Further deponent salth not.
Mas. iMAjriTA Shelley.
State of Montana,
County of Poirell, ss.
Subscribed and sworn to before me, the undersigned, a notary public in and
for said county and State, this 15th day of May. A. D. 1912.
[seal.] Simon P. Wilson,
yotarp Puhtic for the State of }fon4ana,
(Residing at Deer T^dge, Powell County, Mont.)
My commission expires December 3, 1912.
Senator Smith. I submit also, to be printed in the record, the fol-
lowing letter from C. C. Adams, vice president Postal Telegraph-
Cable Co. :
Postal Telbobaph -Cable Co.,
BxECiTTivE Offices. 263 B bo ad w at.
New York, May fU I91i^
Hon. William Alden Smith,
United States Senator, Washin^on, D, C.
Deab Sib: In compliance with yont reqnest In regard to the wireless me«saee
from the Carpathia announcing the sinking of the Titanic, dated April 15.
but not actually delivered In New York until Ai^rfl 17, I write to 8t«te:
The Postnl Telegraph-Cable Co. received this message at Ita matn operating
room in New York City on April 17, at 8.5S a. m., by direct wire from Montreal,
*' TITAKIO *' DISASTE&. 1143
and delivered it trou} its branch office at the Produce Exchange to the White
Star office within 30 minutes from the time the message reached our lines. The
tel^raph dei)artment of the Canadian Pacific Railway, which sent us the mes-
sage from Montreal 1 at 8.58 a. m., on April 17, informs us that they received
the message from the wireless company at Halifax, Nova Scotia, at 8.26 a. m.,
on the same morning, April 17.
I would add that my company has no knowledge of any person withholding
any reports of the sinking of the Titanic,
Very respectfully, C. C. ADAMS,
Vice President Postal TeUgraph-Cablc Co.
Senator Smith. I submit also statement of Mrs. Lucian P. Smith,
to be printed in the record.
Statement of Mbs. Lucian P. Smith, One of the Survivobs of the " Titanic.**
At 7,30 p. m., as usual, my husband and I went to dinner in the caf^. There
was a dinner party going on, given by Mr. Ismay to the captain and various
other people on board shii>. This was an usual occurrence of the evening, so we
paid no attention to it. The dinner did not seem to be particularly gay : while
they had various wines to drink, I am positive none were intoxicated at a
quarter of 9 o'clock, when we left the dining room. There was a coflfee room
directly outside of the caf4. In which people sat and listened to the music and
drank coffee and cordials after dinner. My husband was with some friends
juBt outside of what is known as the Parisian Caf§. I stayed up until 10.30,
and then went to bed. I passed through the coffee room, and Mr. Ismay and
his party were still there. The reason I am positive about the different time is
because I asked my husband at the three intervals what time It was. I went
to bed, and my husband Joined his friends. I was asleep when the crash came.
It did not awaken me enoiigh to frighten me; in fact, I went back to sleep
again. Then I awakened again, because it seemed that the boat had stopped.
About that time my husband came into the room. Still I was not frightened,
but thought be had come in to go to bed. I asked him why the boat had
stopped, and, in a leisurely manner, he said : " We are in the north and havf
struck an iceberg: it does not amount to anything, but probably delay us f
day getting Into New York. However, as a matter of form, the captain ha*
ordered all ladies on deck.'* That frightened me a little, but after being rea?
sured there was no danger I took plenty of time In dressing — putting on al
my heavy clothing, high shoes, and two coats, as well as a warm knit hood.
While I dressed, my husband and I talked of landing, not mentioning th«
iceberg. I started out, putting on my life preserver, when we met a steward,
who was on his way to tell us to put on life preservers and come on deck.
However, I returned to the room with the Intention of bringing my jewelry,
but my husband said not to delay with such trifles. However, I pickecl up twu
rings and went on deck. After getting to the top deck, the ladies were ordered
on Deck A without our husbands. I refused to go; but. after being told by
three or four officers, my husband insisted, and, along with another lady, we
went down. After staying there some time with nothing seemingly going on,
some one called upstairs saying they could not be lowereti from that deck, for the
reason it was inclosed in glass. That seemed to be the first time the officers and
captain had thought of that, and hastened to order us all on the top deck
again. There was some delay in getting lifeboats down: In fact, we had
plenty of time to sit in the gymnasium and chat with another gentleman and
his wife. I kept asking my husband if I could remain with him rather than
go in a lifeboat. He promised me I could. There was no commotion, no panic,
and no one seemed to be particularly frightened; in fact, most of the peo])le
seemed. Interested in the iniusual occurrence, many having crossed 50 and 60
times. However. I noticed my husband was busy talking to any officer whom
he came in contact with: still I had not the least suspicion of the scarcity of
lifeboats, or I never should have left my husband.
When the first boat was lowered from the left-hand side I refused to get
in, and they did not urge me particularly; in the second boat they kept calling
for one more lady to fill it, and my husl>and inslste<l that I get In It, my friend
having gotten In. I refused unless he would go wiith me. In the meantime
Capt Smith was standing with a megaphone on deck. I approached him and
told him I was alone, and asked if my husband might be allowed to go In
the boat with me. He lgnore<l me pet^sonally, but shouted again through his
1144 ** TITANIC " DISASTEK.
megaplioue, "Womeu and children first." My husband said. "Never mind,
captain, about that; I will see that she gets in the boat/' He then said, "I
never exjiected to ask you to obey, but this is one time you must : il is only a
matter of form to have women and children first. The boat is tlioroughly
equipi>ed, and everyone on her will be snved,'^ 1 asked him if thai wns abso-
lutely honest, and he said, " Yes." I felt some better then, because I had abso-
lute confidence In what he said. He kissed me good-by and placed nie In the
lifeboat with the assistance of an ofticer. As the boat was beiii^ lowered he
yelled from the deck. ** Keep your hands in your i)ocket8 ; it Is veiy cold
weather." That was the last I saw of him; and now 1 remember the many
husbands that turned their backs as that small boat was lowered, the women
blissfully innocent of their husbands' peril, and said good-by with the exjiecta-
tion of seeing them within the next hour or two. By that time our interest
was centered on the lowering of the lifeboat, which occurred to me — ^although I
know very little about it — to be a very poor way to low^er one. The end I
was in was almost straight up, while the lower end came near touching the
water. Our seaman said, himself, at the time, that he did not know bow
to get the roL>e down, and asked for a knife. 8ome r>6rson in the boat hap-
pened to have a knife — a lady, I think — ^who gave it to him. He cut the roi)e.
and we were about to hit bottom when some one spoke of the plug. After a
few minutes* excitement to find something to stop up the hole in the bottom
of the boat where the plug is, we reached the water all right. The captain
looked over to see us, I suppose, or something of the kind, and noticed there
was only one man in the boat. Maj. Peuchen, of Canada, was then swung
out to us as an experienced seaman. There was a small light on the horizon
that we were told to row toward. Some people seemed to think it was a fishing
smack or small boat of some description. However, we seemed to get no nearer
the longer we rowed, and I am of the opinion it was a star.
Many people in our t)oat said they saw two lights. I could not until I had
looked a long time; I think it was the way our eyes focused, and probably
the hope for another boat. I do not believe it was anythirg but a star. There
were but 24 people in our boat — they are supposed to hold 50. During the
night they looked for water and crackers and a compass, but thej' found none
that night. We were some distance away when the Titanic went down. We
watched with sorrow, and heard the many cries for help and pitied the captain,
because we knew he would have to stay with his ship. The cries we heard
1 thought were seamen, or possibly steerage, who had overslept, it not occurring
to me for a moment that my husband and my friends were not saved. It
was bitterly cold, but I did not seem to mind it particularly. I was trying to
locate my husband in all tlie boats that were near us. The night was beauti-
ful; everything seemed to be with us in that respect, and a very calm sea.
The icebergs on the horizon were all watched with interest: some seemed to
be as tall as mountains, and reminded me of the pictures I had studied in geog-
raphy. Then there were flat ones, round ones also. I am not exactly sure
what time, but think it was between 5 and 5.30 when we sighted the Varpathht,
Our seamen suggested we drift and let them pick us up; however, the wouu^:i
refused and rowed toward it. Our seaman was Hichens, who refused to row.
but sat on the end of the boat wrapped in a blanket that one of the women bad
given him. I am not of the opinion that he was intoxicated, but a lazy, un-
couth man, who had no respect for the ladies, and who was a thorough coward.
We made no attempt to return to the sinking Titanic, because we supposed it
was thoroughly equipped. Such a thought never entered my head. Nothing
of the sort was mentioned in the boat, having left the ship so early we were
innocent of the iioor equipment that we how know of. The sea had started to
get fairly rough by the time we were taken on the Carpalhia, and we were
quite cold and glad for the shelter and protection,
I have every praise for the Carpathians captain and Its crew, as well as the
passengers aboard. They were kindness itself to each and every one of us,
regardless of position we occupied on boat. One lady very kindly gave me her
berth, and I was as comfortable as can be expected under the circumstances
until we arrived in New York. The ship's doctors were particularly nice to us.
1 knew many women who slept on the floor in the smoking room while Mr.
Ismay occupied the best room on the Carpathia, being in the center of the
boat, with every attention, and a sign on the door, "Please do not knock.'*
There were other men who were miraculously saved, and barely injured, sleep-
ing on the engine-room floor, and such placed as that, as the ship was very
crowded. The discipline coming into New York was excellent We were
** TITANIC '' DISASTER. 1145
carefully looked after In every way with the exception of a marcouigi-am I
sent from the Carpaihia on Monday morning, April 15, to my friends. Knowing
their anxiety, I borrowed money from a gentleman and took this marconigram
myself and asked the operator to send it for me, and he promised he would.
However, it was not received. Had it been sent, it would have spared my
famUy, as well as Mr. Smith's, the terrible anxiety which they went through
for four days. This is the only complaint I have to make against the Car-
pathia. They did tell me they were near enough to land to send it, but would
send it through other steamers, as they were cabling the list of the rescued
that way. He also said it was not necessary to pay him, because the White
Star Line was responsible. I insisted, however, because I thought that prob-
ably the money might have some weight with them, as the whole thing .<«eemed
to have been a monied accident.
Mas. LuciAN P. Smith (Eloise Hughes Smith).
ftuoscribed and sworn to before me this 20th day of May, 1912.
[seal.] E. a. Jobdan,
Notary Pudlic, Gabell County, W. Va,
My commission expires October 26, 1916.
Thereupon the taking of testimony before Senator Smith was ad-
journed.
X
' TIT A "NIC " IDIS^A^STEH
HEARING
BBFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE
SIXTY-SECOND CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. RES. 283
DIREGTINQ THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE TO INVES-
TIGATE THE CAUSES LEADING TO THE WRECK
OF THE WHITE STAR LINER "TITANIC"
PART 15
DIGEST OF TESTIMONY
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
1912
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE.
IJnitrd States Sbnatb.
WILLIAM ALDEN SMITH, Miohigaii, Ckatman,
GEOBGB C. PERKINS, CaUfomift. F. M. SIMMONS, North CoioUiia.
JONATHAN B0X7BNE, Jr., Oregon, FBANCIS Q. NEWLAND8, Nerrada.
THBODOBB E. BUBTON, Ohio. DUNCAN U. FLETCHEB, Florida.
W. M. McKmsTBT, Clerk,
**TITANIC^' DISASTER.
DIGEST OP TESTIMONY.
▲LABM: Page.
" No alarm sounded," Maj. Peuchen 343
"The alarm bell for accidents rang outside of our door," Fireman Taylor. . 560
''The bedroom steward's duty to awaken passengers when an accident
occurs," Steward Wheelton 548
' ' A sort of a general order was passed around . * ' Steward Cunningham 792
"Tell all the other bedroom stewards to assemble their passengers on the
boat deck," order of purser to Steward Etches 815
"I heard the order given * ♦ * to arouse the passengers," Passenger
^ Stengel 975
Whether passengers were notified or not, "I have no absolute knowledge,"
Officer Lightoller 444
C Q D CALIiS ■
Cape Race hears Titanic*s C. Q. D. at 10.25 p. m., New York time 175, 1023
Mount Temple hears C. Q. D. at 10.25 p. m.. New York time 775, 929
"Purely ana simply an accident," Mount Temple replies, but Titanic can
not read 727,738
" The Frankfurt was the first one to answer * * * , as far as I know,
inmiediately ," Bride 147, 900, 1052
Frankfurt heard, 10.40, New York time 859
Calling Titanic to say Cape Cod was sending to him 34, 100, 103
Carpathia "providentially " got the Titanic's C. Q. D 901
Carpathia was second to answer ' 1053
Carpathia answers 10.35, New York time 929
Olympic and Baltic respond 151, 158, 901
Caronia hears Titanic 1057
Mount Temple last hears 11.47 929
Baltic last hears, "Our engine room getting flooded," about 11.45 p. m.. 1063
Carpathia last hears engine room getting flooded 107
Virginia last hears signals blurred and endinef abruptly 12.27 1024
Olympic last hears Titanic about 11.43-45, New York time 1135
COLLISION, EFFECT OF:
"AfS though a heavy wave," Passenger Peuchen 333
"Just a slM:ht grinding noise, " Lookout Fleet 321
"A sound like the ship coming to anchor * ♦ ♦ just a little vibration, "
Officer Pitman 275
"Slieht impact," Officer Boxhall 229
" Dia not waken me, " Officer Lowe 386
"A slight shock, a slight trembling, and a grinding sound," Officer Light-
oiler 445
"The grinding noise along the ship's bottom, " Quartermaster Hichens 450
" I felt a slight jar, " Quartermaster Rowe 519
"A long, gnnding sound, " Quartermaster Olliver 527
"Awakened by a shock as if it was the dropping of a propeller," Steward
Wheelton 543
"A noise like a cable running out, " Seaman Moore 559
" I heard something just the same as a ship going through a lot of loose ice, "
Seaman Jones 569
"Only a slight jar, a grinding noise, " Lookout Symons 573
"I heard this slight shock," Steward Hardy 587
"A slight jar, a gradual jar; 1 did not think it was anything at all, " Steward
Hardy 595
1147
1148 TITANIC DISASTBB.
COLLISION, EFFECT OF— Continued. FM«-
"The slight jar," Seaman Buley 603
^' About 11.40 there was a kind of shakins of the ship and a little impact,
from which I thought one of the propellers had been broken/' Steward
Crowe 614
" Did not throw me out of my bunk/* Steward Andrews 623
"I was awakened by the crunching and jarring as if it was hitting up
against something/' Seaman Clench 634
'* Something similar to when you let go the anchor, * *' • Just a grat-
ing sensation, * * * More of a noise than a shock," Seaman Ardier. 644
"Like a heavy vibration, « ♦ ♦ Not a violent shock, « ♦ ♦ Not
a bad lar," Seaman Brice 050
^^A kind of a movement that went backward and forward. I thought
something had gone wrong in engine room," Steward Ray 801
"They were all awakened by the impact," Steward Ray 802
"As I woke up I heard a slight crash," Passenger Stengel 971
" I felt a slight jar," Seaman Evans 706
" I heard this thump . It was not a loud t^ump ; j ust a dull thump , ' ' Passen-
ger Harder 1028
" It did not seem ♦ » ♦ any very great impact," Mrs. White 1005
COLUBIOK, POINT OF:
*'0n the starboard bow just before the foremast, about 20 feet from stem,"
Lookout Fleet 321
*' Bluff of the bow, ' ' Officer Boxhall 228
** Just about in front of the foremast, " Lookout Fleet 362
"I have been told ♦ ♦ ♦ between the bn»kwater and the bridge,"
Ismay 11
'"I think * * * ti glancing blow between tiie end of the forecastle and
Iheji^tain's bridge, Ismay 16
DISCIPLINE:
"The discipline could not have been better," Passenger Peuchen 354
" The discipline could not have been better, " OflScer Xowe 396
"Everything was quite quiet and calm and orderly," Officer Lowe 399
" Not the sliffhtest panic aboard the ship at any time," Officer Ligh toller. . 447
" Not a bit of panic," Quartermaster Rowe 522
•"Hiere was no panic at all," Seaman Osman 540
*• No disorder wnatever," Steward Wheelton 547
''Excellent," Quartermaster Perkis 582
•'No panic," Steward Hardy 591
** No confusion whatever," Seaman Clench 642
^ I have seen more commotion at ordinary boat drill than on that occasion,"
Steward Etches 819
"They showed very good judgment ♦ * ♦, they were very cool,"
Passenger Stengel 975
"Nothing but the most heroic conduct; perfectly orderly," P&ssenger
Gracie 992
"Conduct of crew ♦ * * absolutely beyond criticism ♦ • ♦, per-
fect," Passenger Mrs. Bishop 1000
" I saw no want of discipline," Passenger Woolner 889
"They could not have stood quieter if they had been in church," Officer
Lightoller 79
"The crowd surging around the boats was getting unruly," Passenger MIbb
Minahan 1109
DISTINCTION BETWEEN PASSENGEBS:
"Women and children first * ♦ * regardless of class or nationality or
pedigree," Officer Lowe 400
"The natural order would be women and children first ♦ ♦ •. Thatwaa
followed," Ismay 9
" I think the passengers in the third class had as much chance as the first and
second class passengers," Passenger Buckley, third class 1021, 1022
"The steerage passengers, so far as I could see, were not prevented from ^t-
ting up to the wpper decks bjr anybody, or by closed doors, or by anything
else," Passenger Pickard, third class 1054
DISTRESS SIGNALS FIBED:
"About a dozen rockets were fired," Officer Pitman 293
" Roc keta fired from deck , " Lookou t Flee t 328
" They were sending up rockets," Passenger Peuchen 352
DIGEST OF TE6TIM017Y. 1149
BUTBBSS SIGNALS FIRXD— Continued. Pa«e.
" Sending off distreaa signalB," Officer Boxhail 234
" Detonatore were incessantly going off," Officer Lowe 401
^^They told me to bring over detonators. « ♦ « I assisted the officer to
fire them * * ♦ until about five and twenty minutes past 1,"
Quartermaster Rowe 619
'* Rockets were fired," Steward Hardy 594
'•They fired rockets." Seaman Buley 612
'^Plenty of rockets," Steward Crawford 828
" Fired by Rowe and I, and Mr. Boxhail, the fourth officer," Quartermaster
Bright 832
"Just white stars or balls," Boxhail 910, 914
•'Trying to signal a steamer. 1 signaled to her. Some people say she re-
Elied to our rockets and our signals, but I did not see them," Officer Box-
all 235
See " Rockets seen."
DBILL:
"There were inspections and drilb the morning of sailing." "The crew
were mustered, and when the names were called the boats were lowered
in the presence of the board of trade surveyors," Officer Boxhail 212
"Two boats were lowered, I believe," Boxhail 213
"We joined the Titanic on Wednesday morning at 6 o'clock, and at 8
o'clock we had the first muster and an inspection by the officers and
went to boat drill. There were two starboard boats," Seaman Evans. . . 674
"We had fire drill once," Officer Lowe 375
"We manned two boats. * ♦ * We were lowered down in the boats
with a boat's crew. The boats were manned and we rowed around a
couple of turns and then came back and were hoisted up," Officer Lowe. 376
"The only boat drill, sir, was on the day of leaving." "The emergency
boat crew were mustered at the boats every evening at 6 o'clock; mus-
tered by a junior officer and then dismissed," Seaman Brice 650
"No boat drill during the voyage," Seaman Clench 641
DRILL OB BOAT STATIONS :
"1 suppose we had been out a couple of days before notice had been put
up,^' Seaman Clench 640
' ' Boat lists were put up about Friday," Seaman Brice 650
* • Either Thursday or Friday boat-station bill was posted , ' ' Steward Crowe . . 617
LOOKOUT MXN: Eyes tested 357,367,568
LOOKOUT MEN, GLASSES POB:
"We asked for them, they said there was none for us. " Sec also 364, Fleet . 323
"Same glasses for night a.«» for day. Equally useful, ' ' Lookout FMeet 358
"You would use the glasses to make sure, before you reported, " Fleet 361
"Not much of a help to pick anything up, but to make it out after-
wards;" " ncit of any use at all at night, " Seaman Jones 568
"Have always had glasses in the White Star boats, ' ' Seaman Hogg 583
"1 would never think of giving a man in the lookout a pair of glasses."
Sei also 727, Capt. Lord 721
" Never use glasses in crow's nest, " Capt. Moore 766
ICE:
"Icebergs reported from Touraine several days before, " Boxhail 907, 930
"Later more positions came * * *^ evidentlv tliose of the Amerika,"
Boxhail .....! 908
"The captain gave me some positions of icebergs, which I put on the
chart, '^Boxhail 223
Baltic sends Titanic an ice report and wishes for success, Balfour 1061
"Received radiogram from Capt. Smith Sunday afternoon and returned
it to the captain Sunday evening 7.10, " Ismay 963
* ' It. ' ' the message above, ' * was sent from the Baltic, ' ' Ismay 964
" I know ice had been reported, " Ismay 6
5.35 p. m. New York time, Titanic acknowledged hearing Califomian's
ice report to Antillian. Operator states he delivered to bridge 139, 142, 703,
899, 900, 1052
I(!e message received in Hvdrographic Office, Washington, from Amerika
was transmitted through Titanic 50
" Received no further ice report, " Bride 1052
Baltic hears ice reports to Titanic from Prinz Friedrich Wilhelm and
Amerika 1061
1150 TITAlfllO DISASTER.
ICX— Continued .
9.05 New York time. Californian signaled Titanic: "Stopped, and sur-
rounded by ice." He replied, "I jammed him, ♦ ♦ * therefore my
signals came in with a bang, and he could read me and he could not
. read Cape Race," Evans 735, 905
''Carpathia heard the Parisian and one of the other sbipB talkmg thmA
ice,"Cottam 497
"1 knew that a communication about ice had come from some ship, getting
information from the captain," Lightoller 63,439
*' Mr. Boxhall said ice was marked on the chart," Lightoller 437
*'The chart showed icebergs away to the north of the track," Pitman 301
'^The iceberg was to the northward of the southerly track, between the
northern and southern track," Pitman 308
"I think it was to the northward of our track," Lowe 416
"We were keeping a special lookout for ice * ♦ ♦ from 10 o'clock on,"
Officer Pitman 271
Lookout men warned to keep a special lookout for ice 361, 439, 450, 576,583
Capt. Moore, of Mount Temple: "I have never in all my experience known
uie ice to be so far south 783
Capt. Rostron: "This is most exceptionable " 26
Capt. Hains to Olympic, April 15: "Field ice extends from 41° 22^; heavy
to the northwest of that'' 1128
ZMFBOVEMENTS IN CONSTBUCTION : 450
Mr. Ismay 959, 975
ON DUTT AT TIMS OF COLLISION: 220
First Officer Murdock lost 220,450
Fourth Officer Boxhall, survived, and testified before committee. . . . 209, 907, 930
Sixth Officer Moody lost 94,220,450
Quartermaster Hicnens at the wheel, survived, and testified before the
committee 449
Lookouts Fleet and Lee, both survived. Fleet testified before the com-
mittee 315-357
Quartermaster Rowe, on duty on the afterbridge, survived, and tesiified
before the committee 519
Quartermaster OUiver, on duty as the stand-by quartermaster on the bridge,
survived, and testified before the committee 526
BOCKETS SEEN:
"I saw a white rocket." "In seven or eight minutes I saw distinctly a
second rocket in the same place," Donkeyman Gill, of Californian 700
"The bridge or the lookouts ♦ * * could not have helped but see
them." "Reported that Apprentice Officer Gibson went to the captain
twice and reported rockets," Gill 701
"The officer on watch saw some signals, but he said they were not distreas
signals," Capt. Lord, of Californian 728
The second officer said, " I think she has fired a rocket," Lord 729
Wireless Operator Evans awakened by chief officer: "There is a ship that
has been firing rockets in the night; please see if there is anvthing the
matter, ' ' Operator Evans, of Californian ' 736, 738, 747, 748
"Everybody on hoard has been speaking aVout it, seeing rockets, amongst
themselves," Evans 742
"I think he (the apprentice) said that the skipper was being called; called
three times as to a vessel sending up rockets," Evans 745
"The apprentice said he saw rockets," Evans 747
8EABCHLIGHTS :
"Might have revealed ice," Officer Pitman 311
" I should require practical experience with it before I could offer any opin-
ion," Officer Lightoller 423
"I think a searchlight would have assisted us under those peculiar condi-
tions, " Officer Lightoller 447
SHIP UQHT IN DISTANCE :
"We waited until we were certain it was a steamer, and then pulled toward
her," Pitman 291,292
"You could see she was a steamer," Seaman Buley 611
Positive, Seaman Buley 612
"Pulled for the light that was on the port bow," Fleet 326, 328
"He," Hichens, "imagined he saw a light," Peuchen 337
"Endeavoring to signal to a ship that was ahead," Boxhall 234,235
"A bright light on the port bow," Fleet 358
DIGEST OP TESTIMONY. • 1151
SHIP UQHT IN DISTANCE -Ck>ntinued. FImpb.
'^Two points on the port bow during the time in which I was getting out
the boats," LightoUer 449
''Ordered to pulltoward that light, which we expected to be a codbanker,"
Hichens 451
''We steered for a light, in sight roughly 5 miles. * * * I think there
was a shi]^ there. I am sure of it," Kowe 520, 524
*^ I thought it was a sailing ship from the banks," Seaman Osman 538
"We ^lUled toward a light," Steward Wheelton 544
"A bright light on the starboard bow," Seaman Moore 564
"Capt. Smith ordered boats to pull for a light and dischaige and return,"
Steward Crawford 827
''It looked to me like a sailing ship, like a fishing boat," Quartermaster
Bright 836
"At first I saw two masthead lights of a steamer," etc., B<udiaU 909, 910, 934
"We saw a light, ♦ ♦ * which we thought was a ship," Ismay 12
"The light of some steamer," Gracie 990
Seen distinctly by Mrs. White 1007
"Capt. Smith was standing by my side, and we both came to the conclusion
that she was close enough to be signaled by the Morse lamp, etc.," Box-
hall..... ^;^^^^^. 934
SHIPS IN VIGINITT:
Calif omian? 19) to 19} miles away with engines stopped 716, 717
Mount Temple about 49 miles away 759, 760
A schooner between Mount Temple and Titanic, perhaps 13 miles (p. 763)
from Titanic*s position 761
Carpathia 58 miles away 20
Birma 70 miles away 774
Frankfurt 39** 47 N. 52-10 W 772
Virginian 170 miles 175
Baltic at 1.15 New York time about 200 miles 175
Baltic 243 miles when Titanic*s C. Q. D. heard 1056
Parisian 100.101
SHIP SIN&tNO:
"Went down almost perpendicular," Seaman Brice 653
"Turned right on ena and went down perpendicularly," Pitman 280
"Her bow pointing down, * ♦ ♦ not as much as 45**," Peuchen 339
"Went down bow first, inclined at 75°," Lowe 410
' ' She went down head first, almost perpendicular, ' ' Steward Hardy 591
"Went down head foremost," Seaman Buley
"Bow down," Seaman Clench 609
"The stem was well up in the air, * * * so much higher that you
could see the keel," seaman Clench 638
"Watching the ship forward, saw nothing to give impression of breaking,"
Archer 647
"Did not break in two, "Pitman 280
"Intact at that time," Peuchen 339
"To my idea, she broke forward," Quartermaster Olliver 530
"Broke in halves," Seaman Osman 541
"It appeared to me as if she broke in half," Seaman Moore 563
"She snapped in two," Seaman Bulev 609,610
' 'Almost stood perpendicular and broke, * ' Steward Crowe 620
"She parted," Seaman Evans 753
"She Droke in two, afterpart righted itself again, and the forepart had dis-
appeared," Quartermaster Bet 839
"Absolutely intact," Officer LightoUer 69
"I think it broke in two," Mrs. White 1008
SHIP BINKINO, EXPLOSIONS:
"Four. Assumed it was bulkheads going," Pitman 280
Explosions occurred after submergence 281
' I neard the explosions, a sort of rumbluag. Four" 339, 411
"One explosion, rumbling, before she sank," Rowe 525
Two explosions 669
A couple explosions, 20 minutes apart 678
SPEED:
Mr. Ismay : " To the best of my knowledge and belief, the ship was not going
at full speed" 955
n -»».^,*^ ff
1162 TITANIO DISASTER.
«
8PXED— <3ontinued. Pm^
''Previous day's run 546 miles; on account of the elapsed time, made it
almost 22 knots an hour," Stengel 971
"About 21i knots— 20J, 20J, 21, 21i,'' Officer Pitman 302
"I should say about 21^ knots, she was steaming between 6 and 10 Sunday
night." Officer Lightoller 440
More boilers lighted Sunday than before, Leading Stoker Barrett 1141
TXSTS :
Officer Lightoller's description 47, 48
Officer Boxhall's description 210
Officer Pitman 260
Officer Lowe 372,373
Operator Bride 134,135
* * Sinking 5.47, " Greenwich meridian time, or 10.47 New York time 295
Collision 10.13, New York time 918
WATS& ADMITTED TO SHIP:
Fdfepeak tank —
'* Tank full and storerooms dry," Ligh toller , 425
"Air escaping ♦ ♦ ♦ from the forepeak tank, which waa filling,'*
Haines 656
"Air hissing from forepeak tank," Hemming 663, 664
No. 1 hold—
"1 saw the water flowing over the hatch No. 1 in firemen's quarters,"
Officer Pitman 276
Fireman Taylor to same effect 550, 555, 556
"I could see the tarnaulin of the hatch lifting up," Seaman Jonee. . 569-570
"Hear the water rushing in," Seaman Buley 607
Seaman Evaiis to same effect 675
Seaman Clench to same effect 634
No. 2 hold—
"She is making water 1-2-3, and the racket court is getting filled up,''
Hemming 664
No. 3 hold—
"Beneath me was the mail hold, and the water seemed to be then
within 2 feet of the deck we were standing on and bags of mail float-
ing about," Officer Boxhall 232
"1 saw them pull up bags of mail and the water was running out of the
bottom of tnem," Steward Etches 813
"There was a stairway that led from the £ deck to the post office, and
the water was down there then. That was level with F deck,"
Steward Cunningham 791
"Trunk room fillea with water; mail clerks wet to their knees," Pas-
senger Chambers 1042
Forward nrerooms —
"The water came through the ship's side ♦ ♦ * about 2 feet
above the floor plates all along No. 6 fireroom, and 2 feet into the coal
bunker in No. 5 fireroom," Leading Stoker Barret 1141
E deck—
"The forward part of E deck was under water," Steward Ray 803
WEATHEB :
"A very deceiving night; I only saw the ice a mile and a half off," Capt.
Lord, of Califomian 733
Mount Temple put engines full speed astern to avoid schooner 762
"Like an oily calm " 25^257
"We remarked the distance we could see. We seemed to be able to see a
long way, " Mr. Lightoller and Mr. Murdock 68
WOMEN NOT ON HAND FOB LOADING:
"In the case of the last boat out, I had the utmost difficulty in findins
women. ♦ * * i called for women and could not get hold of any,"
Lightoller 81
"There were no passengers left on the deck, " Ismay 11
"There were not many women there to respond, so took men, ' ' Lowe 402
"There did not seem to be any people there, " Lowe 403
"There was a certain amount of reluctance on the part of the women to go
in, " Woolner 884
"It was rather difficult to ^ei it filled," Woolner 875
"There were no more ladies to get in, " Peuchen 335
DIGEST OF TESTIMONY. 1168
WOiCSN NOT ON HAND FOB LOADING^-Oontinued. F«S«>
** There seemed to be a shortage of women. ' ' * ' There were no women in the
vicinity of the boat, " Barber Weikman 1099
BOATS QENBBAL:
All boats lowered except one which floated off the ship 71
BOATS IN DETAIL:
Collapsible —
Canvafl not raised up 1040
10 or 12 1040
1 woman, 2 Swedes, Fireman Thompson, boy with^ name like Volun-
teer, steerage passenger Abelseth 1039
Rescued by sailboat No. 14 411,834,1040
Collapsible, starboard —
Lowered about 1.25 519
Quartermaster Rowe in charge, ordered by Capt. Smith 519
In boat, 39 all told (exclusive of 4 Filipinos, 3 firemen, 1 steward) 520-539
Mr. Ismay 247-520
Mr. Carter 520
3 or 4 Filipinos, women and children 247-520
Ninth boat unloaded ' 520
One of the last boats that came 247
Collapsible, port —
Last boat to leave ship 837
Mr. Lightoller loaded and stepped out. Steward Hardy taking his
place 588,835
25 in boat; took 10 from Officer Ix)we'8 boat 589,834
Quartermaster Bright, steward, 2 firemen, 4 men passengers, 17 women
passengers 589
Bright, steward, fireman, 2 men passengers 836
"Picked up husband of a wife we had taken off in the boat " 590
25 in boat 833
1 seaman went with Officer Lowe. Received also 13 men and 1 woman
from sinkiug collapsible 834
Taken in tow to Carpathia by Mr. Lowe 835, 892
"A lantern, but I could not light it " 840
Hugh Woolner and Steffanson jumped from A deck for empty space
in bow as boat was lowered 888
About 36 in all — sailor, steward, one other man, Woolner, Steffanson,
and man they pulled in from sea 888
A lantern, but no oil, Woolner 890
Collapsible, port —
"Washed off by a wave," Bride 161
" Never launched, thrown overboard," Gracie 994
" It floated off the ship," Lightoller 994
"Upturned, overturned, bottom side upward," Bride 995
"Between 30 and 40," Bride 162
"About 30," Lightoller 72,73,87
"About 30," Gracie 997
Gracie 73,87,963
Thayer 73, 87
Lightoller 71
Bnde 161
Philips died 73
Remainder crew 164, 897
Rest firemen taken from water 73
Cook Collins 661
Swam 632
Probably then on 15, we lifted on 4 or 5 664
" Taken off. by 2 of our lifeboats." No. 4 and No. 12 boat 639, 669, 996
" Refused to let only 1 aboard " 632
"There was others, but we would not let them on " 664, 665
Starboard emergency No. 1 —
Loaded on A deck 683
Men and women 239
5 women ; 20 to 22 men. (Undoubtedly wrong. See 574-684) 404
Quartermaster, 4 or 5 sailors '. 405
Lookout Symons in charge — 2 seamen, 5 firemen, 14 to 20 passengers. 574, 716
1164 " TITANIO " DISASTER.
30ATS IN DETAIL— Continued.
Starboard emergency, No. 1 — Continued.
** 10 in all — 2 seamen, 3 stokers, Mr. Steng^el, Mr. A. L. Solomon, Sir
Duff Gordon and wife, Miss Francatelli, '^ Mr. Stengel 972
Second boat to be picked up by Carpathia 973
" It was never taken aboard the Carpathia " 977
Port emeij^ency No. 2 —
The sixteenth boat to lower 538
'' Last boat but one on port side,'' Boxhall 240
Boxhall ordered in by captain 241
Sailorman ( 11 , Osman 538) 241
1 steward 238,241
Between 25 and 30 255, d38
Icook 238
1 male passenger (with his wife and 2 children) 238, 542
Mrs. Douglas at tiller 244, 1101
Landed passeni^ers at 4.10 244
Showed green fights 244
First boat picked up 244
" I think there were 18 or 20," Mrs. Douglas 1101
No. 3 boat —
" 40 to 45, say 40; equal number of men and women, because there were
no women to respond; somewhere about 25 men and 20 women,"
Lowe 402
"32 all told — 2 seamen, 5 or 6 firemen; Seaman Moore in chaige; a few
men passengers" 560
"Roughly, about 40" 574
"When we went aboard the Carpathia" 564
No. 4 boat (last big boatport side) —
Mrs. Tnayer, Mrs. Widener, Mrs. Astor, Miss Eustis, Mrs. Ryenaon,
maid, 2 daughters, and son, 24 women; lowered about 20 feet to
the sea; picked up 6 or 7 1107
Filled from A deck .83
About 4 sailors, no male passengers, women, about 26 or 27 334, 665
Last boat lowered, port side 240
Quartermaster Perkis took charge, and 2 sailors, Foley, Hemmings« and
39 passengers; about 40 women 581, 666, 794
Picked up ^1 fireman, 1 steward, 6 passengers, of whom 2 died after-
wards 582,666,796
Steward Cunningham, who swam three-fourths of a mile, and his mate,
Seibert, who died 765,794
About 40 ladies 795
Prentiss, storekeeper, picked up 796
Mrs. Astor in this boat, Gracie 991, 1020
"Mrs. Astor threw a shawl over me," 21-year-old Irish lad, Buckley. . 1020
Took 4 or 5 passengers from swamped port collapsible, but Lightoller
went to other boat 669
About 7.30 a. m. picked up by Carpathia 797
No lamp, but fooa and water 797
McCarthy, a sailor, picked up 666
Picked up 7 after picking up Hemming— Seaman Lyons, Fireman
Dillon, the stewards, storekeepers 666
No. 5 boat —
Lowered second on starboard side 278-1030
Boat deck, loaded at 545, 783
Loaded by Officer Pitman, assisted by Mr. Ismay 277
Air women in si^ht loaded and allowed a few men in 277
Pitman ordered in by Murdock 277
About 40 passengers 277, 279, 529
1 sailor, 2 firemen. 279
Quartermaster Oliver 528, 817
2 stewards. Etches 817
5 crew, 5 or 6 male passengers, balance women and children 278
Third officer, 6 or 8 men 529
Officer Lowe assisted 388
About 50 — 10 men about; 5 sailors about. ''A few men because we
could not get more women " 390
^'Over 36 ladies" 815
DIGEST OF TB8T£M0KY. 1165
BOATS IN DETAIL— Continued. P^S^
^^ No. 5 boat— Continued.
We had 42, 6 crew, 4 inale paaMOBSB 818
*' We tramifened 2 maie pasBengen, woman, and woman and child into
No. 7," iBtewardeas 818
Officer, Mr. and Mrs. Chambers and daughter 1043
Mr. and Mrs. Harder 1030
42people 1031
No light 1032
"When we come alongside Carpathia " 297
" I saw no lamp" 819
No. 6 boat (port)—
Quartermaster Hichens 346, 326
Seaman Fleet 325
Maj. Peuchen ordered in 326-336,433
Two other men passengers, 1 first, 1 steerage 326
Women 326
About 30 in all 326,363
No more ladies to get in 335
One qAiartermaster 45, 336
One sailor 336
One stowaway; an Italian, broken arm; 20 women 336, 337
Twenty-four m all 340
Two or three women pulled at oars 366
One fireman transferred to us from M. at A. boat. See No. 16 boat. . 341, 306
**I Itorrowed 1 fireman" 461
Hichens, Fleet, Passenger Peuchen, Italian, 38 women 461
Almost the last to reach Carpathia 349
No. 7 boat (first starboard boat)—
First starboard boat lowered 278, 288, 999
Loaded by Mr. Murdock on boat deck 288, 645, 816-999
Made fast to No. 5 after getting away 289
28 in all, possibly more than 28 (12 women, 3 crew, 1 Edmonds, 13 male
passengers, 3 or 4 foreigners, and^several unmarried men) 999-1003
Mr. and Mrs. Bishop 1000
Mr. Greenfield and mother, Aviator Marshal 1002
Mr. and Mrs. Harden 1030
**PrettvfuH" 545
Between 30 and 40, Pitman 289
2 men, 1 woman, 1 child transferred from boat 5 to balance load 289
Quartermaster in charge 298
Lookout Hogg in charge • 578
"I saw a boat on starboard beam, 12.25," Rowe 519
" I must have had 42 " 578
4 ladies, 1 baby, and 1 man passenger transferred to No. 7 578
I saw 3 men forward 816
No compass, no light 1000
Goes into detail of unloading 579
No. 8 boat —
Two boats left on port side when 8 lowered 572
Seaman Jones, ana 1 seaman, and 2 stewards (Crawford), and 35 ladies
(Lady Rothe) 114,570,799,827
35-40 women passengers 799, 828
Mrs. Strauss stepped back from boat 827
Countess of Rothe at tiller all night 827, 1010
Mrs. Strauss refused to get in 112
Picked up without any change in occupants 114, 1009
22 women, 4 men, Mrs. White and maid. Miss Young, Miss Swift. . . 1007, 1009
Mrs. White had a cane with an electric light 1008
Mrs. Kenvon, Mrs. Dr. Leder, Mrs. Swift 1010
Landed alongside Carpathia 1009
No. 9 boat —
About fifth boat lowered, starboard side 658
Loaded by Officer Murdock on boat deck 646
From A deck 662
Steward Ward ordered in 597
Boatswain's Mate Haynes in charge 597, 667
About seven or eight men 697
H56 ' TITANIC DISASTBB.
BOATS IN DETAHr-Continued. FM*.
No. 9 boat — Continued.
A full boat " 597
Sailors McGow and Peters, three or four stewaids, three or four firemen . 657
Over 50; 2 or 3 men passengers 657
Supplied with- A lamp 659
Pulled to Carpathia 659
No. 10 boat—
Last lifeboat to leave ship 604
Seaman Buley in charge; 60 to 70; Seaman Evans; 1 fireman, Rice. 604, 822
One steward, Burke, remainder women and children 676, 822
Two stowaway men 790-^22
Received passengers from Lowe; Evans was txanaferred and went back
with Lowe, confirming Lowers account (see boat 14) 605, 677, 824
Received 12 men and 3 or 4 children 824
No more women 822-825
Miss Andrews; Miss Longley 824
No lamp 812
Later made fast to Mr. LightoUer's boat 823
Passengers " were taken aboard Carpathia" 609
A woman falling — Burke 823
Also Evans to same effect 741
No. 11 boat —
Loaded by First Officer Murdock 544
Eight or nine men in all, including 2 men paasengers, Steward Wheel-
ton (about 8 crew) 547
About 58 all told 545
Loaded on A deck, not boat deck 651-545
One woman pulled into the boat 547
Two seamen (Brice and Humphreys) in chazge; 1 fireman; 6 stewards;
about 60 all told 651,652
About 45 women and 4 or 5 children 654
No lantern; cut rope and made torches 652
No other boat came in view j 653
We got alongside Carpathia 544
Carpathia officer said, "Come up" ; 544
No. 12 boat-
Loaded by Ligh toller; Seaman Clench says about 40 to 50; Seaman
Clench ordered in by chief officer; seaman in charse 636
About 50—2 being seamen; 1 male passenger, a Frenchman, who
jumped in 636
People transferred into No. 12 from Officer Lowe's boat 637
See boat No. 14 677
Rescued people from collapsible boat while Mr. Lowe was gone; Mr.
Lightoller came aboard and took charge 639, 787
No. 13 boat lowered before No. 15 (776):
Loaded from A deck 806
Some men ordered in 804
About two-thirds women; one-third men 805
Lowered past pump discharge 804
Crowded condition 805
Elected a fireman in charge 805
Steward Ray; Steward Wright; Mr. Wash. Dodge; mostly second and
third class women 805
Four or five firemen ; one baker; three steward^; one Japanese 807
No more women or children to go 809
All the people in No. 13 reached the Carpathia alive and quite safely. . 805
Barret in charge; leading stoker boat full 1141
No. 14 boat —
"Filled with women and children,** Lowe; Lowe in charge lowering
and aft«r; 58 in all; all women and children except an Italian
sneaked in dressed like a woman, and a passenger for rowing, Wil-
liams; Mrs. Compton 406
Miss Minahan 1109
Herded together, 14-10-12, and 1 collapsible; transferred 53 equally
between other boats 407
Picked up 4 people, one of whom, Mr. Hoyt, died (616); 1 Japanese,
1 steward (718) 408,678
DIGEST OF TE8TIM0NT. 1157
BOATS IN DBTAXL— Continued. PU«.
No. 14 boat — Continued.
Took a collapsible in tow (in which was Mrs. Harris) 409
Saw another *' collapsible in worse plight"; sailed to them, and took
out " 20 men and 1 lady, "leaving '^3 bodies." 5ee 893 411
**Cut the ropes to ^t in the water. Steward Crowe; 1 officer; 6 men;
57 women and children . See Crowe's testimony 61 S^20, as to return-
ing to ship 616
No lamp (1105); no bread; no water 680
Sailed to Carpathia 682
No. 15 boat-
Fireman Dimel in charge; 6 crew ordered into boat; boat was full,
mostly women and children; filled from A deck; about 7.30 we
boarded the Carpathia 561, 662
No. 16 boat-
Filled with women and children, Lowe; loaded by Moody 406
Master-at-arms in charge; 2 seamen. Archer and Andrews; 6 crew in
all ; about 50 passengers 624, 646
One of crew transferred to another boat. See No. 6 boat 626
One fireman transferred 648
Master-at-arms in charee 646
A request made to go back 647
We proceeded to Ciurpathia 624
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