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■,143.791 




vn 

1 



TRANSACTIONS 



OF THE 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION 



OF 



ENGINEERS AND SHIPBUJI^ERS. 




EDITED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INSTITUTION. 



VOLUME XVIII. 



EIGHTEENTH SESSION, 1901-1902. 



THE RIGHT OF PUBLICATION AND TRANSLATION IS RESERVED, 



LONDON AND NEWCASTLE-UPON-TVNE : 
ANDREW REID & COMPANY, Limited, PRINTERS AND PUBLISHERS. 



1902. 



ATITERTISEMENT. 

' ' The Institution merely plkcea on record, gjid i» not, M ft b*>dyi 
responiible for the 8titt«ineiit> or opinioDS »dvaDc«d in the Papera read, or 
the UiscuMloDH thereon, which occur at the Meeting! during the .Seuion." 




Ul 



CONTENTS OF VOLUME XVIII. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



^ 



I) 



Alphabetical List of Names of Writers of Papers and Speakers 
List of Publications added to Library 

Officers, 1901-1902 

Committees, etc., 1901-1902 

Honorary Members 

Members, July, 1902 

,, ^xBsociaves, ,, ... ... ••* ... ... 

«, Graduates ,, 

Proceedings at General Meetings 

Council Report for Seventeenth Session 

Financial Statement 

Annual Dinner 
Sessional Awards ... 

Closing Business of the Session 

Visit to Messrs. Charles Cammell & Company's Iron and Steel 
Sheffield 

iuXtJUOXllo ... ... .•• ••. ••• ... ... •.. 



1, 39, 61, 93, 203, 247, 



• • • • < 



>• • • • 



Works, 



> • m * 



PAGE. 
V 

• • 

Vll 

ix 

X 

xi 

xi 

xxxviii 

xliii 

297,323 

5 

12 

77 
204 
341 

347 
366 



PAPERS READ DURING THE SESSION. 
1901. 

Nov. I5th. -President's Opening Rbmabks 

"The Speed of Machine Shop Tools," by Mr. J. W. E. 

Littledale 
Discussion ... 

Discussion resumed 

Mr. J. W. E. Littledale's reply 

Dec. 13th— ** The Ballasting of Modern Tramp Steamers," by 

Mr. E. C. Chaston 

X/lBCU8810n ... .«• «.. ••• •«• ... •■• 



Discussion resumed 

Mr. E. C. Chaston's reply 



17 

21 
34 
41 
63 

61 
67 

.207,249 
261 



1902. 
Jan. 24th — ** Some Notes on Steam Turbines," by Mr. F. J 

Warburton 
Discussion ... 
Discussion resumed 
Mr. P. J. Warburton's Reply 



71 
209 
255 
266 



Peb. 7th— "Kefort on Mihdrandum bdbmittrd to the Fibst LoEtti 

or THE ADHIBALTV UN THE 16tH Ot JdLV, 1001, WITH 
BBPKKBKCR TO THH PKISBKT tmSATiaFACTOBY CONDITIOH 
OP THE EHOINKERINO BRANCH OF H.M. Navt," by 

Mr. D. B. Moriion 

DUciuuion ... ... 

Mr. 1). B. MoriBOn'fl reply ... 

Conmnniciitioii ftom Mr. D. B. MoriBon on cartain 

atdtementB msde by the Secretary to the Admiralty in 

the House of Commona 

Feb. 22iid— "On Fassehobr Accommodation in Steamships," by 

Mr. M. C. James ... ... 

Discussion 

Mr. M. C. Jkmes's reply 

March Slat— " Wobkshop Recoriih," by Mr. George Parker 

Discussion 

Discuasiou resumed 

Mr. Qeorge Parlier'a reply 

April ISth— Co-operation and Meciianicai. Aids to Workshop Cost. 

KSKPiNa," by Mr. R. K. Link ... 

DiscDsaion ... ... 



LIST OF PLATES. 




ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WRITERS OF PAPERS 

AND SPEAKERS. 



Name. 


Name of Paper or Subject under Discussion. 


Page. 


Andrew, D. . 


: The Speed of Machine Shop Tools 


i 
' 35 


Appleyard, RoUo ... 


1 The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


193 


Batey, J. T 


Vote of Thanks to Retiring Members of tJouncil 


344 


Bedbrook,R.N., J. A. 


The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


158 


Bennett, P. M. 


i The Speed of Machine Shop Tools 

1 Some Notes on Steam Turbines ... 


43 


>> • • • 


209 


Bigge, D. Selby 


The lingineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


195 


Bingham, Col. J. 


1 Dinner at Sheffield 


350 


Blow, C. 


The Speed of Machine Shop Tools 

The Engineer Branch of H. M. N avy 

Annual Dinner 


48 


Borrowman, W. C. . . 


182 


Boyd, W 


89 


Bremner, D. A. 


The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


177 


Browne, Sir B.C. ... 


Annual Dinner ... 


87 


Caims, C. W. 


Accommodation in Steamships 


266 


Ghaston, E. C. 


The Ballasting of Modern Tramp Steamers 


51 


»» 


Reply to the Discussion on the Ballasting of 
Modem Tramp Steamers 






251 


Ghiflholm, A. 


Accommodation in Steamships ... 


265 


DeRuaett, E. W. . 


Some Notes on Steam Turbines 


255 


,, 


Accommodation in Steamships 


263 


Dorinan, G. 


Annual Dinner 


78 


Dugdale, W. H. 


The En^neer Branch of H.M. Navy 

Annual Dinner ... ... 


165 


Fletcher, J. R 


85 


FothergUl, J. R. . 


Vote of Thanks to President 


4,342 


,, ... 


Financial Statement 


15 


j> 


Annual Dinner 


90 


,, 


The Ballasting of Modern 'Iramp Steamers 

The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 

Annual Dinner 


207 


Gearing, E. 


198 


Graven, J. 


88 


Griffith, E. 


Some Notes on Steam Turbines . . 


255 


Hall, W. L 


Accommodation in Steamships 


269 


Harrison, A. 


Aids to Workshop Gost-keeping 


339 


Heck, J. H 


Vote of Thanks to President 


344 


Hollia, H. E. 


The Speed of Machine Shop Tools 


44 


Inglis, J. 


Accommodation in Steamships 


274 


Innis, C. H 


Some Notes on Steam Turbines 


211 


James, M. C. 


Passenger Accommodation in Steamships ... 


239 


>» 


Reply to the Discussion on Passenger Accom- 






modation in Steamships 
The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


299 


Johnson, R.N., C. M. 


188 


Link, R. P 


Co-operation and Mechanical Aids to Work- 






shop Gost-keeping 


311 


Littledale, J. W. E. ' 

1 


The Speed op Machine Shop Tools 


21 



NA... 




I-AO., 


Littledale, J. W. K. 


Reply to the DireuMion on the Speed of 

Nfa^hine Shop Toolfl 


63 


Loudon, W. J. A. . 


Notoa ou St«am TurbineB 


212 


Lord, W. R. 


The Ballaetiiig of Modern Troini> Steamers . . . 




MacColl, Hugo 
McGIftBhun, 1. 


Workflhop Reuorda 


305 


The Balloting of Modern Tramp Stwmera ... 


249 


MorUon, D. B. 


Report OS Mbmq&andvh sobhittku to thk 

FlBHT LOBD OF THE AUMIBALTV WITH 
RlFERBHCE TO THE PRBSEHT USSATIHrACTUKV 

State of tbis ENCtHBEB Buasis op H.M. 
Nayt 

Reply to the UiBousBion or the Present Unaatia- 


95 




factory State of the Eogiueor Branch of 
H.M.Wy ^ 


215 


.„ 


Secretary to the Admiralty in the House of 






Commons . .,. 


22.3 


Mnir, B. H. 


Vote of Thanka to President 


4,343 


Piirker, G. 


WORKSHOf ReCORIIH 


275 




Reply to the UiscuBHiou on Woikshop Records 


33.1 


Pftulinl'w, J. 


The Speed of Mttchine Shop TnoU 

The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy ... 


41 


Bichardaon, Sir T. ... 


I.i4 


Ricliardaoc, Wigham 


Annual IKlmor 


84 


Rowan, Jamca 


Workshop Records 

The Speed of Machine Shop TooU 


325 


Speoce, W. G, 
Tweedy, J. 


35 


The Speed of Machine Shop Tools 

InstalUtion aa President 


46 


342 


Walker, J 




341 


Warburton, F. J, ... 


Some Notbs on Steam Tubbinks 

Reply to DiBcusaion on Some Notes on Steam 
Yorbine. 


7i 




258 


Wealberall, H. 


Workshop Records.. 


307 


Weighton, R. L. ... 


The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy . 


171 




Notes on Steam Turbines .. 


20n 


Westgarth, T. 


The Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy 


185 


Withy, H 


Repliaa to Votta of Thanks 

PKK8:nKNT'S OrEJilSU ilEMAHbU;.. 


4,344 
17 




The BuUaatinc of Modern Tramp Steamers ... 




I^H 



vu 



BOOKS AND TRANSACTIONS OF LEARNED 
SOCIETIES ADDED TO LIBRARY. 



BOOKS. 

Modem Copper Smelting, By E. D. Peters, junr. 1901. 

The NavaJ Animal. 1902. 

12 Volumes of Engineering for 1877 to 1883. (Presented by A. Maxson Wilson. ) 



COPIES OF TRANSACTIONS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED FROM THE 

FOLLOWING SOCIETIES :— 

Aoierican Society of Civil Engineers, 127, East Twenty-third Street, New York, U.S.A. 
American Soc. of Mechanical Engineers, 12, West 31st Street, New York City, N.Y. 
American Society of Naval Engineers, Navy Department, Washington, U.S. of 

America. 
Bnreaa of Steam Engineering, Navy Department, Washington, U.S. of America. 
Canadian Society of Civil Engineers, 112, Mansfield Street, Montreal, Canada. 
Cleveland Institution of Engineers, c/o A. Macpherson, Coatham, Redcar. 
Engineers and Shipbuilders in Scotland, 207, Bath Street, Glasgow. 
Genio Civile, Alia Direzione della Bibliotica, e dell' Archivio tecnico, del Ministero 

dei Lavori Pubblici, Roma. 
Hull and District Institution of Engineers and Naval Architects, Herbert 

Dunkerley, c/o M. Samuelson, Esq., Bowlalley Lane, Hull. 
Illustrated Official Journal of Patentu, Patent OflBce, London, E.C. 
Institution of Civil Engineers, 25, Great George Street, Westminster, London, S.W. 
Ipswich Engineering Society, 204, Spring Road, Ipswich. 
Iron and Steel Institute, Victoria Mansions, Victoria Street, London, S.W. 
Institution of Junior Engineers, 39, Victoria Street, Westminster, London, S.W. 
L'Association Technique Maritime, 8, Place de la Bourse, Paris. 
Liverpool Engineering Society, Royal Institution, Colquit Street, Liverpool. 
Manchester Association of Engineers, 63, Barrett Street, Old Trafford, Manchester. 
Marine Engineers' Institute, 58, Romford Road, Stratford, Essex. 
Mechanical Engineers, Storey's Gate, St. James' Park, Westminster, London, S.W. 
Midland Institute of Mining, Civil and Mechanical Engineers, Eldon Street, Bamsley. 
Naval Architects' Institution, 5, Adelphi Terrace, London. 
North of England Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers, Neville Hall, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Nova Scotian Institute of Science, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. 
Philosophical Society, 207, Bath Street, Glasgow. 
Boyal Dublin Society, Rildare Street, Dublin. 
Schiffbautechnischen Gessellschaft, Berlin, N.W. 
Soci^t^ des Ing^nieurs, &c., de Li^ge — Boulevard Savey, 20, Li^ge. 
Soci^t^ des Ing^nienrs Civil de France, 19, Rue Blanch, Paris. 
Soci^t^ Scientifiqne Indnstrielle de Marseille, 61, Rue Paradis, Marseilles. 
Society of Arts, John Street, Adelphi, London, W.C. 

Society of Engineers, 6, Westminster Chambers, Victoria Street, London, S.W. 
Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, 12, West 31st Street, New 

York, U.S.A. 
South Wales Institution of Engineers — Hort Huxham, Esq., Park Place, Cardiff. 
United States Naval Institution, Annapolis, Maryland, U.S. of America. 
Western Society of Engineers, 1737, Monadnock Block, Chicago, U.S.A. 



Vlll 

THE INSTITUTION IS ALSO PLACED ON THE FREE LIST OF THE 
FOLLOWING PUBLICATIONS, COPIES OF WHICH LIE ON 
THE TABLES IN THE READING ROOM :— 
American Machinist ^ 34, Norfolk Street, Strand, London, W.C. 
Catsier*» Magazine^ 33, Bedford Street, Strand, London, W.C. 
Electrical Engineer, 139, Salisbury Court, Fleet Street, London, E.G. 
Electrical JRevictv^ 4, Ludgate Hill, London, E.C. 
Engineering, 35 and 36, Bedford Street, Strand, London, W.C 
Engineers* Gazette, 66, Chancery Lane, London, W.C. 
Fairplay, 34, Leadenhall Street, London, E.C. 

Feilden's Magazine, Temple Chambers, Embankment, London, E.C. 
Indian and Eastern EngiTieer, 60, Fenchurch Street. London, E.C. 
Indian Engineering, c/o F. E. Robertson, Esq., CLE., 8, Gre «t George Street, West- 
minster, London, S.W. 
Journal de la Marine le Yacht, 65, Rue de Ch&teaudun, Paris. 
Marine Engineer, 3, Amen Comer, Paternoster Row, London, E.C. 
Marine Engineering, 309, Broadway, New York, U.S.A. 
Mechanical World, New Bridge Street, Manchester. 
Rivista Marittima, Rome. 

Shipping World, Efl^gham House, Arundel Street, Londou, E.C. 
Stahl und Eisen^ Diisseldorf . 

The Colliery Chtardian, 49, Essex Street, Strand, London, W.C. 
7%e Steamship, 2, Custom House Chambers, Leith. 
The Electrician, 1, Salisbury Court, Fleet Street, London, E.C. 
The Engineer, 33, Norfolk Street, Strand, London, W.C. 
The Engineering Magazine, 222, Strand, London, W.C. 
The Iron and Coal Trades Review, 165, Strand, London, W.C. 
Ihe Mariner, Effingham House, Arundel Street, Strand, London, W.C. 
The Mechanical Engineer, Hodson^s Court, Corporation Street, Manchester. 
The Practical Engineer, 31, Whitworth Street, Manchester. 
Transport, 28, Victoria Street, London, S.W. 



COPIES OF THE FOLLOWING SHIPPING REGISTERS LIE IN THE 

READING ROOM :— 

Lloyd's Register of British and Foreign Shipping, London. 
Bureau Veritas International Register of Shipping, Paris. 
Oermanischer Lloyd Internationales Register, Berlin. 
The British Corporation for the Survey and Register of Shipping. 



BOUND COPIES OF THE TRANSACTIONS OF THE INSTITUTION ARE 
PRESENTED TO THE FOLLOWING LIBRARIES :— 

The British Museum, The Superintendent, Copyright Office, British Museum, 

London, W.C. 
Literary and Philosophical Society, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
The Free Libraries of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Gateshead, South Shields, Sunderland, 

and West Hartlepool. 
The Bodleian Library, Oxford. \ 

The University Library, Cambridge. I G. W. Eccles, 16. Great James' Street, 
The Advocates* Library, Edinburgh. j Bedford Row, rx)ndon. W.C. 
The Library of Trinity College, Dublin, j 

The Patent Office Library, 25, Southampton Buildings, Chancery Lane, London. 
The Subscription Literary Society. Fawcett Street. Sunderland. 
The Durham College of Science, Barras Bridge, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 
The Rutherford College, Bath Lane. Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
The Mitchell Library, 21, Miller Street, Glasgow, 



IX 



LIST OF OFFICERS. 

EIGHTEENTH SESSION, 1901-1902. 
ptCStDCnt:— HENRY WITHY, J.P. 

past^ptest^cnts : 



WILLIAM BOYD, J.P. (1884186). 

Sib W. THEODORE DOXFORD, M.P. 

(1886-88). 
F. C. MARSHALL, J.P. (1888-90). 
WIGHAM RICHARDSON,J.P.(1890-92). 
ROBERT THOMPSON, J.P. (1892-94) 

V)ice^pce0tdent0 : 



Sib THOMAS RICHARDSON. B.A., 

M.P., J.P. (1894-96). 
Col. henry F. SWAN, J.P. (1896-98). 
Sib BENJAMIN C.BROWNE, D.C.L., 

J.P. (1898-1900). 



G. H. Bainbs, J.P. 
A. COOTE, J.P. 
John Dickinson, J.P. 
C. D. Doxfobd. 
w. h. duodale. 
j. r. fothbboill. 
Hknbt Fownbs. 

G. B. HUNTBB. J p. 



SUMMBBS HUNTBR. 

t)onorary ^reaaurcr:— g. e. Macabthy. 

dounctlmen : 

w. c. bobbowman. 
Ehnkst H. Cbaoos. 
E. W. Db Rusbtt. 
Alfbbd Habbiso.v. 
J. H. Hbck. 



D. B. Mobisox. 

JosBPH M. Rbnnoldson, J.P. 

H. B. ROWELL. 
A. G. SCHAEFFEB. 
G. W. SiVEWBIGHT. 

John Tweedy, J.P. 

Col. p. Watts. 

T. Wbstoabth. 

R. L. Weiohton, M.A. 



Andbew Laixo. 
D. R. Macdonald. 

ROBBBT H. MuIK. 

David Mylbs. 
T. S. Shobt. 



RiCHABD HiBST. 

M. C. Jamks. 



W. G. Spence. 

ROBBBT WaLLIS. 



Gi:oBOB Dob IE Weib. 

Secretary anD treasurer :— John Duckitt. 



H. BOCLBB. 



OraDuate Section: 

Chairman — H. B. Donaldson. 
Hon. Secretary/ — Gboboe Nbi^on. 

Commtttee : 

J. S. Heck. 



A. Q. Cabneoie. 
J. 'T. DrtON. 



R. Robson. 

W. L. .^HAND. 



■ L. Wood. 



voi^ XVIII.— 1902. 



COMMI t TEES. 



EIGHTBBNTlt SDdSION, 1901-1902. 



The President is ex offioio a ft^ember of all Committeea. 

jrtttance Committee: 

Ald. WiLLiAkf Boyd (Chairman). 



W. H. DUQDALE. 
J. R. FOTHBROILL. 
J. M. RENN0LD80N. 



h. b. rowell. 
Robert Thompson. 
Geoboe E. Macabthy (Hon. 
Treasurer). 



W. C. BORBOWMAN. 

M. C. James. 
R. H. Mum. 



E. H. Craoos. 
Alfbrd Harrihon. 



IRcfibim committee: 

I D. R. MacDonald. 
! 1). Myles. 
I G. D. Weir. 

Xibr^lri? Committee : 

SUMMBBS liuKTEB (Chairman). 

a. g. souaeffeb. 
Henry Walker. 



J. H. Heck. 

D. R. MacDonald. 

A. G. SCHAEFFER. 



Graduated* 2i\^atb Committee : 

Henry Walker. 

R. L. Weiohton. M.A, 



'Kepredentatiped on XlolftC^'d Sub^^Committee : 



W. H. Dugdale. 
J. W. Reed. 



John Tweedy. 
^ENBY Withy. 



'Kepredentttlt'ed on tbe Condultatkpe Committee to tbe 

Xoaxb ot n:racyt: 



Arthur Coote. 
J. H. Irwin. 



GkoitoE Jones. 
D. B. MoRisoN. 



'Kepresentatipe on Council ot Dutbam ttoUede ot Science : 

John Gravell. 

'Keptesentatipes on Sub«Committee ot fiottbft^berlanb Count!? 

XTecbnical Bbucation Committee t 

R. Ti. Weiohton, M.A. I George E. Mxcarthy. 



Ilepredentatipe on Committee on StanbatO S<Xf ions ; 

Henrv Witht. 



I 



NORTH-BAST C0A6T INSTITUTION OP ENGINEERS AND 

SHIPBUILDERS. 



Xiat of Aembers, 5uls, 1902. 



EXPLANATION. 



(A.) 


A^eiit and Accountant. 


(1. $t S. M.) 


(B. B.) 


Boiler Builder. 




(C. E.) 


Civi) and Consulting En- 


(M.) 




gineer. 


(M. S.) 


(E.) 


Engineer and Boilermaker. 


(N. A.) 


(E. A.) 


Engineering Agent. 


(R. M.) 


(E. E.) 


Electrical Engineer. 


(S.) 


(F. M.) 


Forge Master. 


(S. O.) 


(F.) 


Iron and Brass Founder. 


(SUR.) 



Iron and Steel Merchants 

and Manufacturers. 
Merchant. 

Marine Superintendent. 
Naval Architect. 
Rope Manufacturer. 
Shipbuilder. 
Ship Owner. 
Engineer & Ship Surveyor. 



HONORARY MEMBERS. 

Tihe Right Honourable the Earl of Ravensworth, Ravensworth 

Castle, near Gateshead-on-Tyne 

Sir W. H. White, K.C.B., LL.D., F.R.S., The Admiralty, White- 

hall, London (N A) 

The Right Honourable the Earl of Hopetoun, G.C.M.G., Hopetoun 

House, South Queensferry^N.B 

The Bight Honourable the Earl of Glasgow, G.C.M.G., LL.D., 

Fairlie Craig, Fairlie, Ayrshire ... 

MEMBERS. 



• • • • « • 



ELECTED. 

Nov. 1884 
Nov. 1884 
Nov. 1897 
April 1902 



A. 

Abey, Henry, Fairfield, York Road, West Hartlepool (E) 

Adams, Cecil T., c/o Messrs. The N.E. Marine Engineering | Graduate, 

Co., Sunderland Works, Sunderland (E) | Member, 

Adams, Dawgon, c/o Messrs. The National Electric Supply j Graduate, 

Co., Ltd., Bushell Street, Preston, Lancashire (E E) ( Member, 
A damson, Alex., St. Andrew's, ChiBlehurst, London, N.W. ... (S) 

Adamson, Chas. P., c/o W. Kinnaird, Esq., 175, Great ( Graduate, 

Junction Street, Leith (8) ] Member, 

Adamson, Daniel, c/o Messrs. Joseph Adamson & Co., Hyde, / Graduate, 

Cheshire (E) I Member, 

Adamson, James Young, 87 Greengate Street, Barrow-in-Furness (S) 
Adamson, L. W.,Eslington Villa, Jesmond Road, Newcastle-upon- 

Trne CE^ 

• ▼ AA^ ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ^MB^ 

_ ( Graduate. 
Agar, Alfred, 3, Nut Grove, North Parade, Belfast... (E)-j ^ . 

Aisbitt, Matthew Wheldon, 47, Mount Stuart Square, Cardiff ... (N A) 

Alder, Sydney, 34, King Street, South Shields (C E It N A) 

Allan, Jas. McNeal, The Poplars, Monkseaton, Northumberland... (E) 



Jan. 1889 
Oct. 1891 
Nov. 1897 
Oct. 1894 
Dec. 1897 
Nov. 1886 
Nov. 1897 
April 1901 
Feb. 1888 
Oct. 1894 
Nov. 1896 

Oct. 1898 
Oct. 1898 
Jan. 1902 
Oct. 1895 
Nov. 1893 
Dec. 1886 



211 



(£) Hor. 1S9» 

(S) Jan. It)O0 
(E) Nov. 1898 

(E) Nov. 1884 

(S) Nov. 1900 
(E) Nov. 1884 



1885 
1901 
(E) Nov. 1884 



Allan, William Jun., c/o McBsrs. RicUardsons, Westgarth &, Co.. 

. Scotia Engine Workfl.Sundeilaml 

Atlaii, John, u/o Messrs. Lloyd's Begister of Shipping, 12, Oriel 

Cbambere.WaMr Street. J^iverpoot ... 

AUaa, George J., 20, Villa Place, Nevircastle-upon-Tjne 

Allardes, Wm., c/o Mesara. Harland k Wolff, Ltd., Engine Woiks, 

Belfast 

Anderaon, Charles William, Uandale House, Mamlale Boad, 

Thornaby-un-Pecs 

Anderson, Joseph, 5, Weslfteld Terrace, WaUsend-on-Tyne 
AnderBon, Tboi. James, Cotton Eicbttnge Building, Galveston, 

Tezai, United States of America (E SWR) Mar. 

Andrew, D., 3^, Osborne Boad, Jesmond, Newcastle-upon-Tyne .. .(SUR) JaA. 

Andrew*, Edward W., 12, Thornhill Terrace, Sunderland (E E) Dec. 

Andrews.. Jaa., Eton Villa. Cathcart, Glasgow 

Angus, W. J., MeesiB. Vickers, tkins ii Maxim, Naval CoDStmc- 

tion Works, Barrow-in-FumesB (E) Oct. 1892 

Angus. John Chas., e/o MexBis, Roht. Ste[>heneon & Co.. Ltd., 

Hebbnrn (E) Nov. 18iJ9 

Armstrong, Adam Latimer, Portugal House, Clythft Park, Newport, 

Honmoiithihiie (8) April I90I 

Aimstrong, Joseph, 4, Balem Avenue, Sunderland (S) Nov. 18U2 

Armstrong, Robert B., cjo Messrs. Day, Summers ii, ('o., Xortlinm 

Ironworks, Southampton (E) Oct. 1887 

Armstrong, Walter, 14. Elwin Terrace, Sunderland. (S) May 1899 

Ascrott, Frederick W., !1 Park Street, Lyt ham (E) MaJ 1900 

A the vton, William Henry, M.Sc., 2, Hollj Lea. Lime Avenue, 

Urmaton, Manchester (E) Oct. 1891 

Atkinson, Alfred, 12, Pape Buildings, Newcastle- u|>on-Tyne ... (E) May 1901 

Atkinson, F. C, 37, Croydon Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1892 

Atkinson, George H.. S, Acclom Street, Hartlepool (E) Nov. 1898 

Atkinson, John Joseph, 7, Swiss Koad, Elm Park, KaiiUdd, 



Livi 






Raber, Samiiel Ernest. 9, Montross Avenue. Bedlaud, Bristol ... (E) Nov. 19U1 
Baggallay, KEibert, Messrs. Flannery, Baggallay k Johnson, 9, 

Fenchureh Street, London, B.C. (C E) May 1902 




XUl 



Barclay, James, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Swansea ... ..(SUR> Nov. 1888 

Barley, C. J., c/o Messrs. The London Electric Supply Cor- i Graduate, Feb. 1885 

poration, Stowage Wharf, Deptford,London, S.E. ...(E) 1 Member. Dec. 1886 

Bamett, James Rennie, Westfield, Crookston, Renfrewshire, N.B. (S) Oct. 1889 

Barrett, A., Dal ton House, West Hartlepool (E) May 1896 

Barron, T. Q., Hobourne, Elswick Uoad, West Hartlepool ... (E) Oct. 1888 

Bateiuan, John, Vane Terrace, Darlington (E) Mar. 1901 

Batey, John Thomas, 52, Queen'.s Road, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne ... ... ... (S) Nov. 1885 

Batliboi, Jehangir Framji, 71, Apollo Street, Fort, Bombay ... (E) Dec. 1888 

Baxter, J., 26, Simonside Terrace, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 
Beadon, D. C, " Stonieham," Beech Grove Road, Newcastle-upon- 

xyne... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... v^^J tian. looo 

Beckett, Frank, 8, Woodbine Place, Coatsworth Road, Gateshead- 

on-Tyne ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (E E) Dec. 1901 

Bell,Geo.Arthur,48,OrownStreet,Newcastle-upon-Tyne(E)| ?'^^"*^®' ^^^- ^^^^ 

i Member, Jan. 1894 

Bell, Joshua Robson, 40, Hill Street, Jarrow-on-Tyne {S) Mar. 1899 

Bell, William, Messrs. Cleland's Slipway Co., Willington Quay- 

on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1888 

Bennett, Percy M., c/o Mexican Gas Co., Calla, Santa Clara No. 7. 

Jiexico City (E E) Dec. 1899 

Berkley, A. B., 11, Croft Terrace, JaiTow-on-Tyne (E) Mar. 1887 

Berven, Ferdinandt, c/o Messrs. Bergens Mekaniske Vcerksted, 

Bergen, Norway (S) April 1901 

Bigge, D, L. Selby, 27, Mosley Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E E) Nov. 1894 
Billetop, Torben Christian, 3, Guildford Place, Heaton, Newcastle- 

apan-Tyne (E) Nov. 1896 

Bindesboll, S. C. W., Aktieselskabet Helsingors Jernskibs- og 

Maskinbyggeri Helsingor, Denmark (S) Nov. 1884 

Binns, Aubrey B., 23, Thornhill Terrace, Sunderland ...(E) | ^fra^iuate, Oct. 1894 
•^ M Member, Dec. 1899 

BUck, J., 1, Church Street, West Hartlepool (E) Nov. 1888 

Black, Wm,, 1, Lovaine Place, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Jan. 1885 

Blackett, Walter, c/o Messrs. Hawthorn, Leslie & Co., \ Graduate, Nov. 1886 
8t. Peter's Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) 'Member, Nov. 1892 
Blackie, Thomas Reid, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 71, Fen- 

church Street, London .. (SUR) Nov. 1890 

Bladon, Jas. Buckley, 12, Havelock Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 
Blake, James, Northbrook, Linthorpe, Middlesbro' ... (E) Nov. 1899 

Blaylock, Robert, 10, Green bank Crescent, Darlington (F Wl) Dec. 19<X) 

Blenkinsop, John N., Marine Snpt. Engineer, Great-Eastern Rail- 
way, Parkwton Quay (E) Oct. 1886 

Blomberg, Carl A., 2262, North 19th Street, Philadelphia. Pa., 

United States of' America (E) Oct. 1896 

Blow, Charles, Beech Grove, Benton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1898 
Blomer, Wm., Ashbrooke Tower, Sunderland (S) Dec. 1886 

Bocler, Harry, 19. Azalea Terrace South, Sunderland (S) | ^/*^°**^6' ^^^- ^^^^ 

I Member, Dec. 1901 

Boddy, John, 96, Dock Street, Newport, Monmouthshire (E) Dec. 1888 

Bodin, LauritK M., R8, John Street, Sunderland (E It SUR) Dec. 1889 



ILKCTU). 

Bone,W. J., 61, Liuskill Terrace, North ShieldB (S) Dec. 188* 

BaDnjQiaD, James Emith, 61, Plaslurton Avenue, CardiS (E) Nov. 1889 

Boolda, Jbs. H., c/o Meaars. Tickers, Sons, k Maxim, NavaJ Con- 
struction Works, Barrow-iii-FutneBB <S) Oct. 1886 

Booth, Edward Spence, Box 5124, Boston, U.S. America ...(M SANA) Oct. 1889 
Booth, John William, Union Foundry, Roiiley, near Leeds ... (E) April 1892 

Borrie, I'eter, 4, Oxford Terrace, Stockton-on-Tees {E) Nov. 1900 

Borrowman, William Cameron, Wh.Sch., Newgtead, Grange Road, 

West Hartlepool (E) Oct. 1896 

Bosi, OniBeppe, Presso Bwttelli, Sampierdarena, Qenoa, Italy {E li NA) Jan. 18U 

Bowden, John, Sheriff Moont, Qftteahead-on-Tyoc (E) | »'■»<'''"'>' J""- JS94 

' ' J \ / (Member, Oct. 1898 

Boyd, Arthur, Lloyd's Segister of Shipping, Bute Dock.s,Cardi£ECE SUR) May 1896 
Boyd, Wm., North House, Long Benton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 
Boyt, John T., 387, Bourne Buildings, Philadelphia. Pa., U.S.A. ... (E) Nov. 189S 

Bramwell, Balfout, 43, Stranmille Road. Belfast ... (E) i^™<*"»*«' ^'"'- Jf86 

^ ' (Member, Nov. 188T 
Brankston, R. T., 36, Hawthorn Street, Newcastle- upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 
Brew, Qeorgc, c/o Messrs. Furnese, Withy Sl Co.. steamship owners, 

Montreal (SUR ft C E) May 1896 

Brigham, Robert F., 0, Argyle Terrace, South Shields (E) Mar. 1897 

Broadbent, Frank, c/o 5, Bond Court, Wallbrook, London, B.C. ... (E E) Nov. 1893 
Brock, Henry W., c/o Messrs. Wm. Denny & Bros., Dumbarton (E ft S) Nov. 1899 

Brockett, Charles, 3G, Milton Road, West Hartlepool (E) Feb. 1899 

Brotherston, James, 23, Nels?n Street, Sunderlaad (E) Oct. IS95 

Brown, Engene, c/o Messrs. J. H. Holmes & Co., Portland Road, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E E) Feb. 1886 

Brown, Geo. Matthew, c/o Messrs. The British Thompson- | Qraduate, April 189S 

Houston Co., Rugby (E) I Member, Nov. 1897 

Brown, James, c/o Messrs. Palmer's Shipbuilding Co., Jarrow-on- 

Tyne (E) Mw. 1891 

Brown, Percy J., Salum Cottage. Sunderland (E) May I89S 

Brown, Robson, 32, Salmon Street, South Shields (E) Nov. 1889 

Brown, T. R., 37, Stansfield Street, Sunderland ... /gj /Graduate. May 1885 

^ ' \ Member, Oct. 1886 

Brown, WiUiam, c/o Messrs. Siemens Brothers A: Co., Woolwich... (E) April 1887 

jc, Bcuiammi:',. jiiii.. .18, BriyliU.n Grove, Sewcu=Ue- [ Gra.luii 




XV 

ELECT KD. 

Burbidge, Alfred H., Backwell Rectory, Bristol ... lE)\ ^^^^^^^' ^^^' ^^^^ 

^ ^ ^ ' Member. Oct. 1898 

Burley, M. P., U, Croft Terrace, Jarrow-on-Tyne (F) Nov. 1899 

Burnett, Norman, C, Lombard Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Oct. 1891 

Bushell, Chas. A., 1, Benton Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (N A It SUR) Nov. 1893 

Butterfield. George, 4, Kayll Road, Sunderland (8) Nov. 1884 

Butterworth, George Herbert, 41, Brook Road, Bootle, nr. Liverpool (E) Nov. 1899 

Bucban-Sydserff, Thos (E) Oct. 1888 

ByerSjWm.Lumsden, 11, Norfolk Street, Sunderland (E) May 1900 

C. 

Cairns, C. W., M. Sc, c/o Miss Brown, 31, Cheltenham Street, J Graduate, Nov. 1894 
New Barns, Barrow-in-Furness (E) I Member, Dec. 1897 

Carr, Ralph, jun., 19, Abingdon Street, Westminster, J Graduate, Jan. 1894 
London, S.W (E) I Member, Nov. 1901 

Carr, Wilson Story, 13, Mosley Street Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (C E) May 1900 

Cama, Nusserwanji Bomanji, Sleater Road, Tardeo, Bombay, 

British India (E) Dec. 1888 

Cameron, Angus, c/o Messrs. Sir James Laing & Sons, Deptford 

Yard, Sunderland (S) Nov. 1892 

Campbell, J. Jennings, Bureau Veritas Register of Shipping, 155, 

Fenchurch Street, London, B.C. (E) Oct. 1888 

Campbell, John M., 57, Osborne Road, Jesmond, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (N A) Aprill895 

Campbell, Thomas, 129, Bute Road, Docks, Cardiff (S) Mar. 1894 

^._,, ^_-^ m «. m ,«v r Graduate, Dec. 1897 

Canning, Chas. E., 29, Duan Terrace, Ryton-on-Tyne (8) { jj^^j^^ ^^^ jg^g 

Cannell, Frank, Messrs. H. Parry & Son, Lisbon (E It S) Nov. 1887 

Carnegie, Alfred Q., 21, Bldon Place, Newcastle-upon- r Graduate, Nov. 1899 

Tyne (EE)\ Member, Dec. 1901 

Carney, J. H., Glengariffe, Stow Park, Newport, Monmouth ... (E) Mar. 1897 
Carstons, Samuel, Messrs. Burmeister & Wains, Maskin-og Skibs- 

byggeri, Copenhagen, Denmark (S) Dec. 1887 

Carter, Geo. J., c/o Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., 

Elswick Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (N A) Dec. 1897 

Casey, James, 10, Philpot Lane, London, B.C (E) Nov. 1891 

Ceuvel, John L., 763, Gulgenstug, Naarden, Holland (E) Mar. 1886 

Chambers, John, 114, Sidney Grove, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Dec. 1897 

Chapman, Harry Reynolds, Messrs. Clarke, Chapman & Co., 

Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Mar. 1893 

Charlton, Henry, 1, Millfield Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 

Charlton, T., 25, Lincoln Street, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Chasten, Edward Catmore, 36, St. George's Terrace, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1894 

Cherry, Thos. Wm, Fry, c/o Messrs. Tyne General Ferry Co., 

St. Peter's, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1894 

Chicken, Christopher B., 169, Hampstead Road, Newcastle-upon- 

xyuc ••• ••. ... .«• ••• ••• ••• «.. ^b^ L/ec. Xvv/X 

Chicken, Thomas, c/o Messrs. Newport Engineering and Ship 

Repairing Co., Newport. Monmouth (E) Oct. 1892 

Chilton, Joseph, 73 Theresa Street, Blaydon-on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1899 



/ 



Chisholm. Aleutnder, o'o Ue*arti. Wigham Biclmnlson &. Cn., 

N*ptune Works, Watker-ou-Tyne (S) Mar. l: 

Cbrtstie, C. J. D., Neptune WorltR. Walker-on-Tyne (9) Nov. U 

Chriatie, J. D., WoodBide, Tynemouth (S) Not. I: 

Cbristie, Reginald, Woodaidc, Tynemoutli (E t) Har. I! 

Christie, David M., 95, Great Western Road, Qlasgo™ (E) Mar. II 

Clark, Charlei, c/o Messra. Robert Irvine & Co., Tower CTtambero, 

Wert Hwllepool (E) Jan. l: 

Clark, Qeoi^, Sonthwick Engine Works, Sunderland ... (E)Feb. U 

Clark, Henry, Routhwick Eingine Works, Sunderland (E) Oct. 1! 

Clarke, Harry, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Bank Chambers, 

Newport, Honmouth (E) iisx. l: 

Clarke, Henrj Trevisa, Deptford Shipyard, Deptfoni, Sunderland (S) Mar. 1; 
Clarke, William Henry, 21, The Terrace, Roker, Sunderland ... (E) Dec, l: 
Clark, John Harwood, Hessrs. Sir James Lsing & Sons, Uepttord' 

Yard, Sunderland ... ... (E) Nov. II 

Clegborn, Alexander, JO, Whittinghame Drive, Kelvinaide, Glasgow (E) Feb. 1: 
Coates, Matthew C, 26, nenmark Street, Gatesbead.on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1: 

Cohn, William M., 2, Marine Terrace, North Shields (S) Nov. 1. 

Coteby, James W., Cburchill Street, Willington Quaj-on- jGisduate. Oct. 1: 

Tyne (E) | Member, Jan. li 

Common, John B. A., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 71, Feochurch 

Street, London, B.C (E) Aprill: 

Coninok, Ga«tin de, 2, Summerhill East, Sunderland (S) April!: 

Conriidl, Carl, Prinsens Oade 2b, Christiania, Norway (E) Nov. I: 

Consiglio, Lnigi, 8, Via Patemo, Palermo (N A) Nov. 1 

Cookson, John A., 4, Durham Terrace, Gatcshead-on- j- Graduate, Dec. 1: 

Tyne (E) \Hember, Nov,!; 

Cookson, William D., Milton House, Albert Drive, Low Fdl.Gates- 

hcad-on-Tjne (E) Nov. I' 

Cooper, Barjorjee S. N., Sea View, Mahim, Bombay, British India (E) May 1' 
Cootc. Arthur, Measre. R. S W. Hawthorn, Leslie, & Cn., Hehhum- 

on-Tyne (S) Nov. I; 

Cornish, H. P., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 28, Eattendyk, 

Quest Qnai, Antwerp (E) Oct. ]. 

Concbe, Henry Drew, c/o Messrs. Laird Bros., Birkenhead Works, 

Birkenhead (S) C 




xvli 

BLVCTBD. 

Crookflton, John, 72, Mark Lane, London, S.E (E) Mar. 1896 

Cruddas, W. D., Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth & 

Co., Ltd., Blswick, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1884 

Cruickshank, Alexander, H.M. Naval Dockyard, Gibraltar ...(SUR) Mar. 1892 
Camming, William, c/o Mr. Hyslop, Hampton House, Grey Street, 

St. Kilda, Melbourne, Australia (E) Mar. 1896 

Cummins, W. R., 16, Western Elms Avenue, Reading, Berkshire (E) Nov. 1884 

D. 
Dale, John, 13, Bwesley Road, Chester Road, Sunderland ... (E) Mar. 1897 

Dalrymple, Alexander, 25, Rutland Avenue, Sefton Park, Liverpool (E) Nov. 1901 
Dalrymple, Wm., Myrtle Cottage, nr. Cleadon, Sunderland ... (E) Dec. 1886 
Dalrymple, William, Jun., 42, Cleveland Road, Sunderland ... (E) Dec. 1895 
Danielsen, John William, Highfield, Farquhar Road, Binning- f Graduate, Mar. 1899 

ham (E) I Member, Mar. 1902 

Darling, W. J., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Dock Chambers, 

Barry (S) April 1887 

Damey, John, c/o Messrs. Short Bros., Pallion, Sunderland ... (S) Nov. 1884 
Davidson, Alexander, 15, North View, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1900 
Dawson, Thomas Charles, c/o Messrs. Baird Bros., Bull Ring 

Engine Works, North Shields (E) May 1902 

Deighton, William, Messrs. Deighton's Patent Flue Co., Vulcan 

Works, Pepper Road, Leeds (E) Nov. 1897 

Denny, Archibald, c/o Messrs. Wm. Denny & Bros., Dumbarton ... (S) Dec. 1891 
Denny, Leslie, c/o Messrs. Wm. Denny & Bros., Dumbarton ... (S) Nov. 1899 

Denny, Peter, Bellfield, Dumbarton (E It S) Nov. 1899 

De Rusett, Edwin W., Warden House, Percy Park Road, Tyne- 

mouth (S) Nov. 1890 

Detchon, John, 116, Bell Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Feb. 1899 

Dick, F. W., c/o Messrs. Park Gate Iron and Steel Co., Ltd., 

Park Gate, Rotherham (I Ic S M) Oct. 1891 

Dickie, James, Falstone House, West Park. South Shields ... (S) Nov. 1901 

Dickie, James, 428, Mississippi Street, Potrero, San Francisco, 

California, U.S.A (S) Mar. 1894 

Dickie, John P., Falstone House, West Park, South f Graduate, Mar. 1898 

Shields (E) I Member, May 1900 

„ „ ^^ ^ , ^, ,,r ., ^1 1 /i-x (Graduate, May 1886 

Dickinson. F.T.. 23, Park Place W., Sunderland ... (E) {^^^^^^ Oct. 1886 

Dickinson, James 0., The Cloisters, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 

Dickinson, John, Park House, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 

Dickinson, W., The Club, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 

Dietze, F. G., Messrs. The Hamburg South American Steam Ship 

Company, Hamburg (E) Nov. 1893 

Dippie, Joseph Robt., 130 Albert Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) April 1900 

Dixon, Harold Raylton, Messrs. Sir Raylton Dixon & Co., Ltd., 

Shipbuilders, Middlesbrough (S) May 1902 

Dixon, James, c/o Messrs. Ropner & Sons, Shipbuilders, Stockton- 
on-Tees (E) Dec. 1893 

Dixon, John Rochester, 4, St. Nicholas's Buildings, W.,|Graduate, Oct. 1887 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E)lMember, Feb. 1893 

Dixon, John Thomas, 27, Meldon Terrace, Heaton, New- f Graduate, Dec. 1899 
castle-upon-Tyne (E) I Member, Dec. 1901 

VOL. xvin.— 1902, ^ 



DUnn, WillMo Jabn, B.!!.. H.H.S. " Pmctolm," Ctumnel , GndDBte, Har. 1896 

Bqaxlron (E)l Member, Sot. 1899 

DoljMD, Henry J>me«, ejn ittsorg. William Doheon k Co., | Gndaale, Oct. 1891 

lfeirea«tle.Dpi,ii-TyiK (8) I Member, Feb. 1898 

Dobaon. Wm. G., Tbe Cbesien. JeniioDd. Hewcastle-apoii- , Giwiuate, Feb. 1896 

Tjae (S) I Member. Dec. 1901 

Dobaon. WitlUm, (ihipbDilder, Walker-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1888 

Donald, -James, 58, General GordoD Terrao, Sanderland (S) Nov. 1884 

Iliinkin,G«jrK«,Bt.AiMlrew'iiEDgineW<irk»,Sewcat!tle-Qpon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1892 
tXiouvan, J. W., 3, A>b Place, Nen-caHtle Road, Sunderland ... (E) April ISSa 
Du* HMtttm, ApolinariK J., Kna Coronel, Sampaio 59, Kio Grande- 

iln-Hal, Brazil (SUR) Not. 1891 

DoDgls*, John F., c/o Me«r>. Bamage k Ferguson, Leith (E) Jan. 1888 

UoDglaa, William T., Mewn. DongUw Bros., Globe Iron Works, 

Blajdon.on-Tj'ne (E) Dec. 1901 

Dove. Herliert J., 25, A)>hGeia Terrace W., Newcaetle-upon-Tfne (E) Nov. 1896 
Dnwniiig, Nicholax, Olenbrookc, Victoria Avenue, Norton Row!, 

KI/wkton-oD-Tceit (I F) Oct. 1894 

Dow»en, Chaa., 21, Ciott Terrace, Jarrow-on.Tyne (E) Dec. 1885 

DoxtonJ, Albert Ernest, H.A., I, Grange Crescent, Sunder- ( Graduate, Oct. 1890 

Und <E)1 Member, Not, 1893 

Doiford, Charles D., Pallion Khipyard, Sunderland (S) Nov. 1881 

„ , , _ , „.„ .■■.„„ . . , I Graduate, Feb. 1897 

Doxtord, Robt., run., Silkiworth Hall, Sunder and (S) K. , -. ,^^. 

' " ' ' V .1 ) Member, Dec. 1901 

Doxford, Bobcrt P., Pallion Engine Works, SunderUnd (E) Nov. 1S84 

Doiford, Bir, W. Theodore, M.P., Pallion Shipyard, Sanderland... (S) Not. 1884 

Drenler, Gustav, SI, Fiscbmarkt, Altrona-on-Rlbe (E) Jan. 1900 

Uuckitt, Jno., Leaies Gate Villa, Newcastle -npon-Tjne (E) Nov. 1884 

Duvkitt, Jobn Brentnall, 179, Great Norbnr; Street, Hyde, 1 Graduate, Oct. 1888 

<:he«hire (E E) I Merabor, April 189.-. 

Duckitt, Talbot, Ha wthomdale Cottage. Paton Street. Alloa, /Graduate, Oct. 1891 

N.B (EE)tMember, Oct. 1898 

DudBCfiTi. F.B.,. SO, Great St. Helens, I,.iiic]on, B.C. (E) Feb, 188'! 

llugdalc, William H., Wear Dock Yard, Sunderland (S) Mar. 1894 

Diigiiid, lluliert, c/o Messrs. HnHand k Wolff, Drawing Oflicc 

Du|>artinent, Belfast (S) Oct. 1892 

Dunlop, John, c/o Messrs. Seott k Co., 8 bip builders, Duckyaril, 

Greenock (S) Mar. 1S98 




X12 

tLKCft&T}. 

Eeles, Robert, Queen Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) April 1889 

Eider, Edward, c/o Messrs. Frew, Elder, k Co., 9 Queen i Graduate, Nov. 1890 

Street, Newcaitle-upon-Tyne (9) j Member, Oct. 1892 

Elliott, William D., Hessle, Hull (E) Nov. 1894 

Elcringham, Harry, Messrs. J. T. Eltringham Sc Co., Btone Quay, 

South Shields (S) Feb. 1901 

Eshelby, William, 1.3, Brankingham Terrace, Norton Road, 

Stockton-on-Tees (E) Feb. 1888 

Evans, Lewis, West India House, 96 and 98, Leadenhall Street, 

London, E.C (SUR) Dec. 1890 

Evans, William, Superintendent Engineer, Rosedene, Whitchurch, 

Cardiff (E) Nov. 1889 

Eyres, Reginald J., 4, Cedars Crescent, Sunderland ... (C E) Feb. 1900 

F 
Fairbairn, Archbold, Violet Street, South Hylton, Sunderland ... (E) Mar. 1902 

Fairbairn, James, 2, Creswick Road, Bow, London, E. (E) i ^^^^a^'«» ^^y 1^86 

^ ^ I Member, April 1895 

Farina, A. J., 63, Quayside, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Farminer, A. E., c/o Messrs. Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 8, St. 

Nicholas* Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (SUR) Jan. 1900 

Farquharson, Geo. James, c/o Messrs. Elder, Dempster & Co., 

Luisenhof, Neue Groningcr St rass, 1, Hamburg (E) April 1899 

Fenwick, James, B.Sc, C.E., 19, Bridge Street, Sydney, New South 

Wales (E) Oct. 1892 

Ferguson, Wm. Deeble, Iveagh Chambers, Belfast (CE) Feb. 1901 

Ferrier, Robert M., B.Sc, University College, Bristol (E) Nov. 1892 

Fettes, James, c/o Messrs. R. E. Mudie k Sous, Marine Buildings 

Bast, Dock Street, Dundee (E) May 1899 

Field, Arthur M. C, 7, Maylield Road, Gosforth, Newcastle-upon- 

j.yne ... ... ... ••• ••• ••• ... ... ^ii b) Jan. lo9o 

Figari, Emanuel D., c/o Messrs. Barwick & Wright, 100, Bishops- 
gate Street, London, E.C. (S) Dec. 1900 

Finch, Herbert K., Greysidc, St. Edmund's Road, | Graduate, Dec. 1888 
Ipswich "... (E) ) Member, Nov. 1894 

Findlay, John Taylor, Lloyds Register, 3, St. Nicholas Buildings, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (S SUR) Mar. 1902 

Fish, Thomas Wilson, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Calcutta, 

British India (SUR) May 1892 

Fitzgerald, Durham W., Messrs. J. T. Eltringham &. Co., Stone 

Quay, South Shields ... (S) Dec. 1900 

Fletcher, Robert, Walker Forge, Walker-on-Tyne (F M) Dec. 1886 

Flohr, Justus, Director der Stettiner Maschinenbau-Actien-Gesell- 

schaft " Vulcan," Rantstrasse 9, Stettin (E) Oct. 1886 

Foley, Wm. C. le B., 3008, West Avenue, Newport News, ( Graduate, Nov. 1887 
Virginia, U.S.A (S) \ Member, Oct. 1892 

Konl, John McLaren, 70, Mount Pleasiint, Barrow-in-Furness ... (S) Nov. 1896 

Forrest, Frank, 2, Bath Terrace, Tynemouth (E E) Nov. 1901 

Foster, Henry, c/o Messrs. Patent Shaft and Axletree Co., Ltd., 

Wednesbury (E) April 1885 

Foster, L. P., 113, Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) \ ^/^"*^' ^^^- Ifl 

I Member, Oct. 1898 



Konler, M«rtiii, Clnromont, Norton, Stockton -on-Teee (F M) Hot. 1900 

Kuthoritill, J. It., 1, BaLh(,'*te Turracc, West Hartlepool <C E) Mar. 1886 

Kowler, Jm. Spolr, 27. Whltlula Road, Ayr, N.B (E) Noy. 1901 

FowncB, Henry, 6, OBliornuRoiid, Jesrabiul, NewcaBtle-upon-Tyne (F M) Nov. 188* 

Fo.,C.rUr,T,CoioDSt,,,H,t,Sin.k.rland CE)|?™^"^*"' ^''^' !f^ 

I Member, Dec. 1899 

Fox, Kamnon, Grave Houne, Harragate (Life Member) (E) Dec. I88I 

Koi, Willliim, 9, WiiiHoId Terrace, ChCBter Road, Manclioster ... (E) Aprill895 

Wanee, AIfr»l Jlrown, 12, Bright Street, MldiUesbrongh ... (E) Feb. 1300 

Freukl, J. I'., c/o Hoasrs. Murtit Dry Duck aod Engtaeering Co., 

Hydney, N.8.W.. AuBtrnlift (E) Jan. 1886 

Fnwur, John Holt, c/o Mi'MBrs. A. k R. Brown & Co., 90, ( Oradaate, Oct, 1895 

BC),'viit Riuul, Liv«r|)ual (E)t Member, Jan. 1898 

FriiHur. TliuiDftH S., la, Bdinbargh Boa.i, Annley. Leeds (E E) Jan. 1894 

FriiHlurlchB, Herbert K., 1, 8tonho|>e Avenue, West Hartlepool (E E) Mar. 1901 
Fullut, Fhilip 8., 189, Cardigao Terraee, OatCBhead-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1S99 
Furnuaux, J. U., Viuturia Kngiao Works, Oatcshead-on-Tyne ... (C) Nov. 1S8S 



Qiilne. Roger L., llartloiKiol Kngine Works, Hartlepool (E) i 



lUnidnate, Dec. 1S8T 
(Member, Oct. 1894 

Ganiiuway, H. 0„ 7, OxfonI TiTracc, Renfrew, N.B (S) Nov 1884 

Uanilli, Fabio, I'/o Heaara. Otloro fu Alesa", SeBtri-Ponente, Italy (S) Oct. 1896 
Uarmuy, John, Prince I.ino, Lid., I'tikIu™ Kxeliange, New York ... (E) Deo. 1898 
Uarthwalte,JohuR..e/oMMSiv.R.RopnerJ[SotiB.8tockton-on-Tceg (S) May 1889 
aattw, Ow)rBi-, Walworlh Terrace, Turk Road, West Hartlepool ... (E) Jan. 1899 

Uaytier. Rol.t. H., Jun., West Itoi.k. Sunderland ... (E)/'^"^""**'' "*''• 'f * 
^ , , -, V 'isiember. Oct. 1888 

Ooariiig. Kriuiit tli-orge, TenHlmrBl, Clarence Drive. Harrogate ... (E) Dec. 1893 

OwUiw, Christopher, SA.DruryUue.WrtlurStn«l, Liverpool ... (E) Oct. 1888 

Oeddes, Kr.ink. The llniyo. Shstlvy Bridge, Co. Durham (E) Mar. 1902 

OtaooDiiLixi, Virciliu. c o Mesira. NicoloCXIerofu Alessaudro. Sestri- 

l-onenli. Italy (N A) Nov. 1899 

(lilwoii. 11.. Hia, lloker Avriiue. Moukwearmouth, Buudcrlaiid ... (S) Nov. 1884 
UlUou, J. HamiUoii, e/o Mvtart. Lainl Bros., Birkenhead (Uraduate, AprilI891 

Irvu Works. Birkenheat! (.E) IMcmber, Oct. 1894 

Gibson. William Wri«h(. 16S. Roker Avenue. Sniiderland ... (S) Nov. 1900 
Oit-K.li, W. H,. 37. Tathaui Siwl, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 




xn 

ELECTED. 

Gray. A., 1, South Parade, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1888 

Green, J. W., 3, Shaftesbury Place, Gateshead-on-Tyne ... (lit S M) May 1901 

Green, W. G., Churchill Street, Willington Quay-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 
GnfBth, Edwin, Messrs. The Wallsend Slipway and Engineering 

Co., Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1897 

Grimes, Thomas Benjamin, 39, Vespasian Avenue, South Shields... (E) Mar. 1890 

Gulston, A., Clayton Park Lodge, Jesmond, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1888 
Gunn, Sir John, Chairman, Messrs. Mount Stuart Dry Docks Co., 

Cardifl (^Li/e Member) June 1896 



H. 

Hall-Brown, Edward, St. Helens Engine Works, Govan, Glasgow (E) May 1902 

Hall, Edward, 68, Grange Road West, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1885 

Hall, J. Percy, Carville, Lawrie Park Road, Sydenham, London, S.E. (E) Oct. 1885 

Hall, John, 54, Westoe Parade, South Shields (E) May 1900 

Hall, Thomas, 29, Selbourne Road, Ilford, I^ondon, E (E) Nov. 1899 

Hamilton, Andrew, 19, James Street, Liverpool (CE) April 1901 

HamUton, James, Beech House, Mile End, Stockport (E) / ^/^^**^' ^^^- H^ 

"^ { Member, Dec. 1901 

Hammar, Hugo G., Lindholmens, Verkstads Alstieholag, Goteberg, 

Sweden (S) Nov. 1890 

Hammersley, B. J., c/o Messrs. Tyne Brass and Copper Tube 

Manufacturing Co., Jarrow-upon-Tyne (E) May 1901 

Hammond, Fleetwood C, c/o Messrs. Cowpen Coal Co., Ltd., f Graduate, Nov. 1899 

Cowpen Colliery, Blyth (E) I Member, Dec. 1901 

Haramiishi, M., Jun., Mitsu Bishi Dockyard and Engine Works, 

Nagasaki, Japan (N A) Nov. 1897 

Harbottle, Thomas, 5, Alexander Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Jan. 1900 

Hardy, Henry Thomas, 10, The Retreat, Sunderland (S) Dec. 1899 

Harkness, Richard, Grange Road, West Hartlepool ... (S SUR) Nov. 1884 

Harlow, F., 8, Benton Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... ... (E) Nov. 1884 

Harman, Bruce, Messrs. The Linde British Refrigerating Co., 35, 

Queen Victoria Street, London, E.C (E) Oct. 1886 

Harper, J. H., 1, Beaumont Street, North Shields (E) Jan. 1885 

Harris, Anthony, 73, Queen Victoria Street, London, E.C. ... (E) Mar. 1892 

Harris, John, Truro House, Hotspur Street, Tynemouth (E) Dec. 1902 

Harrison, Alfred, c/o Messrs. Richardsons, Westgarth & Co., 

Scotia Engine Works, Sunderland (Life Member) ... (E) Oct. 1889 

Harrold, Alexander, 26, Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 

flarrold, F., 30, Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1888 

Harroway, George Mitchell, 18, West Terrace, North Ormesbey, 

Middlesbrough (S) Jan. 1896 

Hartley, W. A., c/o Messrs. Charles Cammell & Co., Cyclops 

Works, Sheffield (E) Jan. 1898 

• Harvey, John W. J,, 1, Richmond Villa, Chertsey Road, Redland, 

Bristol ... ... ... ... CE) Feb. 1889 

Haswell, Wm. Spence, c/o Messrs. Tangye, Ltd., 3, St. Nicholas 

Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1900 

Hanssman, B., c/o Messrs. Borneo Co., Limited, 28, Fenchurch 

Street, London, E.C (E) Feb. 1899 



Hay, Juhn, 7, Lioilcn ManHioii, HornBey Lune, Crouch End, 

Lomion, N (6) 

llayhursC, Jameii, 41, Warrington Road. Novrcastle-upoa-Tync .. (C E) 

Head, William. Manager, Victoria Shipyard. Goolo (S) 

Jlcadlam, Kobcrt, New Park Terraue, Hartburn Lane, Slockton-on- 

Teoa (E) 

Heaviaide, Arthur West, 7. (Jrafton Koad, Whitley Bay, 

Northumberland (E E) 

Heck, John H., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 3, >jt. Nicholas' 

Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (8 SUR) 

Henderson, Alex., c/o Mesars. Empttxa, Naeional, De. Nav. D'Vapor, 

Lisbon (E) A 

Henderson, A. M., 3, Greatham Terrace, West Hartlepool ... (E) ( 

Henderson, George. 54, Westmorland Road, Newcastle-u|Hjn- 

Tyne (E) 

Henderson, John, 116 Plasturlon Avenue, Canton, Caidiff (E) 

Henry, William P., Cragsidc, St. Aidan'a Road, South Shields ... (E) 
Henshnll, Samuel, c/o Messrs. Sir lUylton Dixon t Co., t Graduati', 

Middlesbroogli (S) I Member, 

Hepburn, Alfred, c/o Messrs. N.E. Marine Knginceiing Co., 

Northumberland Forge, Wallsend -on- Tyne (F M) 

Hepburn, James .M,, 17, OrosTenor I'lace. Newoastle^upon- ( Graduate. 

Tyne (E>t Member, 

Hepple, W., Messnt. Hepple 4 Co.. Wappiug Street, South 



Nov. 1901 
Nov. 1901 

Keb. 1901 

Nov. 1886 
Oct. 1696 
Nov. lBg5 



Nov. 1884 
June 1896 
April 1897 
May 1885 
Jan. 1894 



Hhieldi 
Hcppk-, W. T., Meurs. Hepple & Co., Wappiug Street, Bi 

Shields 

Hesketh, Thomas, lirjn Tiriuu, Richmond Road, Cardiff ... 
Heslop, ThomftS, 6, Eldon Place, Newcastte-upon.Tyne ... 
Hetheringion, William, 27, Co-operative Terrace, Sunderland ... 
Hewison, Herbert, 2, Kwiog Road, Queens Crescent, fiunderUnil .. 
Higginbutham, George Emerton, Glenlliorn, Mtdhurst lioad, 

Benton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 

HiggiTis C. F., c/o Messrs. T. Bichai'dsonB, Westgarfh Jc Co., 

Hartlepool Engine Works, Hartlepool 

Hildrcy, A. J., II, Ncwcikstle Road, Sunderland 

Hill, Majtwell, 7, The Side, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 



Dec. 1890 
Nov. 1896 
Dec. 1901 

(E » S) Oct. 188t 



(SURJ 



Dec. 1893 
April 1896 



Dec. 1900 
Nov. 1900 



CEE) f 
(NA) > 




ELBCTED. 

Holmes, John H., Wellburn, Jesmond Dene Road, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E E) Jan. 1888 

Hougland, Even, Lloyd's Surveyor, Bergen, Norway (E) Dec. 1896 

Houston, John, 7 Thornhill Crescent, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1894 

Hughes, Thos. Charles, 3, Summerhill Street, Newcastle- y Graduate, Nov. 1893 

upon-Tyne (E)\Member, Nov. 1897 

Humphreys, George, 24, May field Road, Gosforth, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Jan. 1902 

Hunt, Allen B., 11, St. Cuthbcrt's Terrace, Bensham, Gateshead (SUR) Feb. 1901 
Hunter, George B., Messrs. C. S. Swan, Hunter & Co., Wallsend- 

on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Hunter, George Ernest, Aykleyheads, Durham ... (S) j ^^*^"*^®' ^®^- ^^^^ 

^ ^iMember, Nov. 1899 

Hunter, Joseph Gilbert, Lloyds Register of Shipping, P.O. Box 

No. 671, Newport News, Va., U.S.A (SUR) Feb. 1900 

Hunter, J. W., 22, Argyle Square, Sunderland (E) May 1886 

Hunter, Summers, c/o Messrs. N.E. Marine Engineering Co., 

Northumberland Engine Works, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1885 

Hutchinson, C. W., 6, Park Parade, Westmorland Road, New- 
castle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Hutchinson, Wesley, B.A., 4, High Street, Newton Heath, 

Manchester (E) Oct. 1891 

Hutchison, J., Board of Trade Offices, Middlesbrough (SUR) Dec. 1891 

Hyslop, Alfred M., c/o Messrs. Boothroyd, Hyslop & Co., Akenside 

Street, Bootle, Liverpool (E) Mar. 1900 

I. 

Inglis, John, c/o Messrs. Hawthorn & Co., Leith (S) April 1887 

Inglis, John,LL.D.. Pointhouse Shipyard, Partick, Glasgow (E $t S) Oct. 1886 

Irvin, Matthew B., Government Arsenal, Alexandria, Egypt ... (E) Oct. 1900 

Irwin, J. H., Mowbray Terrace, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 

Ito, Eumezo, Mitsu Bishij Dockyard and Engine Works, Nagasaki, 

Japan ... ... ... ... ..• ... ... ... (E) Dec. 1900 

J. 

.Jack, Charles Kellie, c/o Messrs. Ropner k Sons, Shipbuilders, 

Stockton-on-Tees (8) Nov. 1897 

Jack, William C, c/o Messrs. The Hong Kong & Whampoa Dock 

Co., Limited, Hong Kong, China (E) Nov. 1894 

Jack, Fred Barrie, Messrs. Worthington Pumping Engine Co., 

32, Grainger Street, West, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Jackson, Albert S., 3, Mount Stuart Square, Cardiff (E) Mar. 1896 

Jackson, William S., Messrs. Gourlay Bros. & Co., Camperdown 

Shipyard, Dundee (S) April 1891 

James, M. C, 6, Park Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Jarvis, Harry Robert, 14, Burnfoot Terrace, Whitley Bay, 

Northumberland (S) Feb. 1901 

Jarvis, Horace William, West Dyke, Coatham, Redcar (E) May 1902 

Jennings, Frederick W., 9, New Walk, Leicester (E) Feb. 1898 

Jobling, W. J., 1, Akenside Hill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E It S O) Nov. 1884 



XXIV 

■LKOTCD. 

JobBon, Robert, Jun., Rhcnass, Clifton Avenue, West Hartlepool (8) Feb. 1898 
Johnson, Alexander A., Bank Chambers, Sandhill, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Feb. 1893 

Johnson, Johan, 7, Vestra Hamngaten, Gothenburg, Sweden ... (S) May 1886 

Johnson, Joseph, Bentham Buildings, Side, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) May 1901 

Johnson, T. Allan, 64, Cathedral Road, Cardiff (S) Nov. 1884 

Johnstone, William, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 14, Cross-shore 

Street, Greenock (SUR) Nov. 1884 

Jones, George, c/o Messrs. W. Gray &. Co., Shipyard, West Hartle- 
pool ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (S) Oct, 1888 

Jubb, Arthur, 29, Cold well Terrace, Felling-on-Tyne (E) Jan. 1900 



K. 

Reenc, H. R., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Quest Quai, 28, f Graduate, May 1885 

Katendyk, Antwerp (E)( Member, April 1887 

Rendall, Stonard 0., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Ramsden 

Square, Barrow-in-Furness (SUR) Mar. 1891 

Kennedy, William, 14, Gladstone Street, Hartlepool (E) April 1900 

Kerfoot, James, Rue Osy, 20, Antwerp ... (E) Oct. 1892 

King, John, Surveyor's Office, Board of Trade, Liver- ( Graduate, Dec. 1890 

pool (9) I Member, Oct. 1892 

Kirby, John Storm, 4, Westoe Terrace, South Shields (E) Mar. 1899 

Kirkaldy, John, 21, Ground Floor, Leadenhall House, 101, 

Leadonhall Street, London, E.C (E) Nov. 1885 

Kitching, J. F., 134, Fenchurch Street, London, E.C (E) Nov. 1890 

Kyle, Norman M. W., 26, Sandhill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1898 

L. 
« , m X L T^. T, XI- ,^x r Graduate, Nov. 1895 

Lace, Basil T., Lyncombe Rise, Bath <E){ Member, Nov. 1897 

Laidler, William, Messrs. The Upper Tyne Engineering Co., 

Skinnerburn Road, Elswick, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Laing, Andrew, c/o Messrs. Wallsend Slipway and Engineering 

Co., Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Oct. 1892 

Laing, Hugh, Deptford Shipyard, Sunderland (N A) April 1897 

Laing, John, 5, Tynemouth Road, Heaton. Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 
Landreth, Cowen, 34, Simonside Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Mar. 1896 

Larkin, James, Tyne View, East Jarrow-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Latta, James G., 78, Billiter Buildings, Billiter Street, London, B.C. (C E) Mar. 1902 

Leathard, Thomas Surtees, 9, Otto Terrace, Sunderland (SUR) April 1899 

Lee, Hugh Warren, 88, Manor House Road, Jcsmond, (E) /Graduate, Dec. 1899 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne I Member, Jan. 1902 

Lewins, Frank, Rosehill, Willington-on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1895 

Lewis, R. A., Newbum Steel Works, Newburn-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Liddell, J., c/o Messrs. W. Denny & Co., Engine Works, Dumbarton (E) Nov. 1884 

Lie, Gotfred, Det Bergenske Dampskibsselakab, Bergen (E) Jan. 1895 

Lindberg, George, Studsgarden S, Stockholm (N A tc C E) Nov. 1901 

Lindfors, Hugo, Surveyor to Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 16, 

Alexandersgatan, Helsingfors, Finland (SUR) May 1889 

Lineham, Wilfrid J., Jesmond, Leyland Road, Lee, London, S.E. (E) Oct. 1890 
Link, Rolls Percival, 126, Pilgrim Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne... (CE) Mar. 1901 



XXV 

KLICTSD. 

Lishman, Joh« J., Jun., 16, Lovaine Place, North / Graduate^ Dec. 1892 

Shields (E) I Member, May 1900 

Little, Frank, SI, Westgate Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E E) April 1902 

Littleboy, Chas. Wm., The Woodlands, Saltburn-by-the-Sea ... (S) Oct. 1887 
Littledale, John W. B., c/o. Messrs. Charing Cross & City Electricity 
Co., Cannon Street Sub-station, All Hallows Lane, London, 

W.C. ... (E) May 1896 

Livingston, Thos. L., Dunedin House, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Lohmeyer, H., 63, Crown Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Londou, William Jas. Albert, c/o Messrs. Brown, Boveri, & r Graduate, May 1898 

Co., Ltd., Baden, Switzerland (E) \ Member, May 1901 

Long, A. E., 124, Albert Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Loveridge, Wm. Henry, York Road, West Hartlepool (E) Feb. 1901 

Lowdon, John, Messrs. The Barry Graving Dock and Engineering 

Co., Limited, Barry Dock, near Cardiff (E) Dec. 1891 

Luml^, William, c/o Messrs. Witting Bros., 42, Cannon J Graduate, June 1896 

Street, London, B.C (E) ( Member, Oct. 1898 

Lumley, Gascoigne, Bonny, Southern Nigeria (E) Nov, 1901 

Lund, Pearson, Messrs. Noble k Lund, Northern Machine Tool 

Works, FelUng-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1900 

M. 

MacColl, Hector, Bloomfield, Belfast (E) Dec. 1890 

MacCoU, Hugo, Wreath Quay Engineering Works, Sunderland 

(Life Member) (E) Nov. 1896 

Maccoy, John, Springfield, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Feb. 1886 

Macdonald, Charles, 4, St. Nicholas* Buildings, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (SUR) Feb. 1898 

MacDonald, David R., c/o Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whit- 
worth & Co., Ltd., Walker Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (S) Nov. 1891 
Macdonald, John C, c/o Messrs. N.E. Marine Engineering Co., 

Northumberland Engine Works, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1899 

MacDonald, John, 9, York Street, Glasgow (E^ Dec. 1900 

Mace, W., 253, Albert Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne (E) Jan. 1886 

Macfarlane, Archibald P., 15, Beacon Street, Low Fell, Gateshead- 

ujwn-Tyne (E) Mar. 1902 

Macgregor, W. L., Board of Trade Surveyors' Offices, Blyth ...(SUR) Mar. 1899 
MacHaffie, John, 635, Terrace Place, Schenectady, New York, U.S.A. (E) Dec. 1885 
Mackay, William, 15, Camperdown Road. Scotstoun, Renfrew- 

Suire ... •.. ... ... •» • ... ••* C^y M.ar. i.o\iZ 

Mackley, Edward N., 97, Enfield Road, Blswick, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) April 1901 

MacMillan, H. M., B.Sc., 58, Fern Avenue, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (S) Jan. 1902 

Mail, M., Jan., c/o Messrs. Middle Dock and Engineering Co., 

South Shields (E) Nov. 1897 

Manaira, Gaiseppe, 4, Salita S Gerslamo, Genoa, Italy ... (E It N A) Nov. 1893 
Manning, Henry Lewis, R.N., Sea View, Ryhope, Sunderland ... (E) Dec. 1900 
Marr, James, c/o Messrs. J. L. Thompson Sc Sons, North Sands 

Shipyard, Sunderland (S) Nov. 1884 

Marshal), F. C, Akenside Lodge, Newcastle-upon-Tyne {Life Member) (E) Nov. 1884 

VOL, xmi,— 1902. ^ 



XXVI 

UsTshall, FrfuikT.,MesaTB.R.&W. Hawthorn, Leslie & Co., fQradiiBte, Jan. ISSG 

St. PeMr'8, HewcMtle-npon-Tyne (t) tuomber, Oct, 18B8 

Uarehall, R. J., 63, Larkspur Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle-npou- 

Tyne (E) Mar. 1887 

Harshall, Robert, 12, Braughton Road, South Shields (SUR) Har. 1901 

Maslen, Frank B., The Priorj, Hampstead Heath, London, i Oradnate, Nov. 1891 

N.W (E) t Member, Uaj 1898 

Hasoa, Qeorge F,, Lloydfl' Bank Buildinga, Mount Stnatt Square, 

Cardiff (E) Oct. 1896 

Mather, Charles, 60, St. Qeorge'H Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (SUR) Oct. 1888 

Mather, Clifford Basil. Lesbary House, Leebury, R.S.O. (N A) i^'''^f^*** 9^" If*? 
' ' t Member, Oct. 1898 

Mather, Thomas Biener, 13, Park Avenue, Whitley Bay, North- . 

umberland (C E) Nov. 1898 

UathesoD, William, c'o Messrs. R £ W. Hawthorn, Leslie ic Co., 

Hebbnrn-on-Tyoe (S) Dec 18S9 

MaChieson, Donald, SO, Jackson Street, Sundetland (E) Nov. 1898 

Matthews, A., Laureldyne, Midbope Road, Waking, Surrey ... (S) Nov, 1884 
Matthews, Jas., c/o Messrs. R. & W. Hawthorn, Leslie k Co., Forth 

Banks, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1886 

Maughao, Philip A., 8, Ashleigh Drove, West Jesmond, Newcastle- 

npon-Tyne (8) Dec 1900 

Maxwell, Thomas, 15, AshGeld Terrace, East, Newcaatle-apou- 

Tyne , (E) Nov, 1899 

Maxwell, WilUam Ward, B.Sc, Messrs. H. Charlton ft Co., 

Bnglneera, Gateahead-on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1896 

HcBride, William, Hartburn, Cleveland Road, Hartlepool .,, (E) Dec. 1S9( 

McCouU, Cecil, 94, Drayton Paik, HiRhbory, London, N. (EE) | ^'■'^"*'*' ^*- J^^ 
' I f: /I IV '(.Member, Dec. 1901 

McOiinvray, Peter, I4,Nonnanton Terrace, Newcastle. upon- Tyne (E) Nov. 1899 

McOIashan, Arch., Beechcroft, Clifton Avenue, West Hartlepool (S) Nov. 1886 

McGregor, Duncan, 5, Biohopton Street, (Sunderland (S) Dec. 1899 

Mcllvcnna, J. G., c/o Messrs. The Tyne Pontoons and Dry Docks 

Co., Wallsend-on-Tjnc (S) Nov. 1884 

McKcchnie, James, Messrs. Vicker^, Sons & Maxim, Naval Con- 

striretior. Works, Barrow -in-Furness (E) April 1896 

McKenna, Francis, e/o Messrs. B. F. Wailes & Co,, 4, St. rGraduate, Dec. 1S90 

NiehoLts' BuiUilugs, Neweiiatle.upou-Tjne ... CEjlMmi 




xxvii 



£LKctlb. 

Messenger, Thomas, "Greeba," Matham Road, East Molesey, 

Surrey (E) Mar. 1887 

Metcalf, Thos., 18, John Street, Sunderland (S) \ Graduate, May 1885 

^ ^ I Member, Nov. 1893 

Metcalfe, C. S.. 24, Croft Avenue, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1884 

Meuwissen, J., 18, Esplanade, Whitley Bay, Northumberland ... (E) Nov. 1899 

Micheli, Pietro, Jun., Via Sottoripu, No. 1, piano nobile, Genoa, 

Italy (E It N A) Oct. 1888 

Middlemass, Thomas, 3, Albert Place, Norton Road, Stockton-on- 

Aees... ••• ... ... ... ... ... ... «■. ^91 KJCvt xoo*/ 

Middleton, H., 20, Lynnwood Avenue, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (I It S M) Jan. 1893 
Middleton, Robert Alexander, 20, The Grove, Benton, near 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (N A) Oct. 1892 

Millar, Thos., c/o Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whit worth & Co., 

Ltd., Walker Shipyard, Walker-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Milton, James Edward, Messrs. Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 71, 

Fenchurch Street, London, B.C. ... (8UR) Nov. 1900 

Milton, J. T., Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 71, Fenchurch Street, 

London, B.C. ... (E SUR) Nov. 1886 

,, , i Graduate, Jan. 1898 

Mitchell, Wm., Glen Street, Hebburn-on-Tyne ... (S) -! ^jembe^ pe^^ 190i 

Moffatt, James, 7, Murray's Terrace, Belfast, Ireland (E) \ ^f^^^^y ^^' 18^9 
' "^ ' ^ ' i Member, Oct. 1892 

Moffatt, William Graham, 44, Lennox Avenue, Scotstoun, Glasgow (E) Mar. 1899 
Moffltt, George, c/o Messrs. The Blyth Shipbuilding Co., Blyth ... (S) Oct. 1888 
Moffoot, Alexander, 32, Eldon Street, Chester Road, Sunderland.. (8) Mar. 1898 
Moncrieff, John M., 2, St. Nicholas' Buildings, Newcastle-upon- 

xyne.a. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ^w b) uec. loUv 

Moody, Thomas V., c/o Messrs. Scott Bros., 46, Sandhill, New- 
castle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1887 

Moore, Wm. Henry, c/o Messrs. Workman, Clark, & Co., Engine 

Works, Spencer Basin, Belfast (E) Nov. 1897 

Morgan, John Osborn, Bank Chambers, Sandhill, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne... . . (CE) Feb. 1901 

Morgan, W. H., 23, Rochdale Street, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Morison, D. B., Hartlepool Engine Works, Hartlepool (E) Feb. 1886 

Mork, Peter, 3], Holsteinsgude, Copenhagen (E) Nov. 1884 

Moroney, B. F., 24, King John Terrace, Hcaton, Newcastle- f Graduate, Feb. 1892 

upon-Tyne (E) \ Member, Nov. 1899 

Morrison, Robt., Highfield, St. Aidan's Road, South Shields ... (E) Nov. 1886 
Morrison, William, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Maritime 

Buildings, Dundee (E SUR) Oct. 1890 

Morton, Richard Fraser, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 24, George 

Street, Sheffield (E SUR) Oct. 1890 

Moss, William, Kirk view. Shipley, Yorkshire ... (E)/^, . ' * ,«^, 

"^ "^ I Member, Dec. 1901 

Mould, Francis H., 37, Hawthorn Road, Gosforth, Newcastle- r Graduate, Feb. 1892 
upon-Tyne (E)\ Member, Jan. 1897 

Mountain, William Chas., Messrs. Ernest Scott, Mountain, & Co., 

Close, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E E) Feb. 1889 

Muir, Alfred Edward, Messrs. J. L. Thompson & Sons, North Sands 

Shipyard, Sunderland (S) Mar. 1893 



Uuir.Chae. H.,33, Wil1iaDi6trect,NewcaatleItoB^,SDndetlftad... (8) Ua; 1S99 
Uuir, Robert, II, Claruncc Crescent, Whitley Bay, Northam- 

berUnd (SUR) Oct. 188« 

Mnir, Robert Home, 1, Lovaine Crescent, Ncwcaatle-npon-Tyne... (S) Oct. 1892 
Hunck, Ore. Holger, c/o Messrs. BurmeiBter ft Wain, Shipbuilders, 

Copenhagen, Denmark (S) Feh. JS99 

Munro, JameS: S*, GarthUnd Drive, DennUtoun, Ola^ow ... (E) M»r. 1901 
Uarray, Charles W., o/o Messrs. Babcock & Wilcox, Ltd., Ogle 

Honse, t'arringdon Street, London, B.C ff) M»y 1901 

■Mu^ave, Evers, 8, IjtBtingbam Terraue, Friltot.l, Tort (E) / ^radnate, Nov. 1891 
^ * ' ^ -^1 Member, Oct. 18S5 
Uyles, David, c/o Mesxrs. N.B. Marine Eaginceriog Co., Northum- 
berland Eneioe Works, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1881 

N. 

Naetoupil, John, Chief Engineer, Austro- Hungarian Navy, Marine 

Casino, Pola, Austria (E) Nov. 1890 

Neill, William Reld, 15, f^alem Hill South, Sunderland (E) Dec. t89T 

Nellist, George, 2, Burdon Road, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1901 

Nelson, Qeorgc, c/o Mes:>rs. BIyth Foundry and Engineering I Oiadnate, Jan. 1900 

Co.. Blyth (E)lMeniber, Dec 1901 

Nevins, William, Haiel Rrae, Briulford Road. Shipley, Torkshire (E) Mar. 1894 

NeTison, Thomas C, 18 Milton Hond, West Hartlepool (E) April 1900 

NichoUs, H. E., 25, Churchill Street, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1898 

Nichols, Walter W.,* South View.London Road, TeterboTOUgh ... (E) May 1896 
Nicholson, P. V., c/o Messrs. K. & W. Hawthorn, Leslie, & Co., 

Hobburn.on,Tyne (8) Feb. 1901 

Nicholson, John -S., North View, Mowbray Boail, Westoe, South 

Shieil-* (E) Nov. 1898 

Nicholson, Josepli Cook, City Road Tool Works, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Feb. 1897 

Nicholson, Thos. Head, 90, Rye Hill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1897 

Hicol. John M., 16, Linskill Tcrmce, North Shields (E) Nov. 1884 




lELiEGTJEb. 

brd, Godfrey C, 4, The Esplanade, Sunderland ...(E E) Jan. 1897 

Orde, E. L., c/o Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth &, Co., 

Ltd., Walker Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1887 

Orlando, Chev. Giuseppe, Cantiere Navale, Fratelli Orlando, 

Leghorn ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .•. (N A} Jan. 1893 

Ormonde, John Grey, 35, Percy Gardens, Tynemouth (E) Nov. 1897 

Orr, John, Prof., B.Sc., Kimberley Club, Kimberley, South Africa (E) Mar. 1897 
Ortton, Alfred R., 27, General Graham Street, Chester Road, 

Sunderland (E) Nov. 1898 < 

Ostens, Joseph, 4, Jackson Street, North Shields ... (S) Nov. 1900 

Owens, J. Switzer, B.A., Carleys Bridge House, Bnniscorthy, 

Ireland (E) Oct. 1898 

Oxley, G., 51, Norman Terrace, Howdon-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Oxton, Walter, 5, Beech Lane, Stretton, near Burton-on- ( Graduate, Dec. 1890 

Trent (E) I Member, May 1894 

P. 

Paget, John W., 9, Meldon Terrace, Heaton, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (S) Dec. 1900 

Parker, James H., 11, Gladstone Street, Hartlepool (E) April 1900 

Parr, Joseph B., 21, Zion Terrace, Newcastle Road, Sunder. \ Graduate Nov. 1898 

land (S) J Member, Dec. 1899 

Parsons, Hon. Charles A., Turbinia Works, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (E E) Dec. 1887 
Parsons, Harry F., Lindenhurst, Clarence Road, Teddington, 

Middlesex (E) Dec. 1890 

Pascoe, J. R., Tyrmont, Woodford Green, Essex (Life Member) ... (S) Dec. 1889 
Patterson, Jas., c/o Messrs. Caldwell & Co., Limited, Elliot Street, 

Glasgow (E) Nov. 1884 

Patterson, Robert O., Thorneyholme House, Blaydon-on- J Graduate, Jan. 1895 

Tyne (E) I Member, Dec, 1901 

Patterson, Thomas Henry, 2, The Elms, Sunderland (S) Jan. 1902 

Pattison, Jos., Bute Docks, Cardiff (E) Nov. 1884 

Paulin, William J., 24, Oxford Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) April 1897 

Paxton, John F., 52, Walker Terrace North, Gateshead (E) May, 1899 

Pearson, James T., 21, First Avenue, Heaton, Newcastle- jGi-aduate, Nov. 1893 

upon-Tyne (S)tMember, Dec. 1897 

Peat, Herbert, 12, Cheltenham Terrace, Heaton, Newcastle-on-Tyne (E) Mar. 1902 
Penney, R. H., Board of Trade Offices, 79, Mark Lane, London, 

E.Cr. ... ... ... ... ... ••• ••. ... (S 9Un^ ^ov. loo4 

Pepper, W., 9, West Villas, Oxbridge Lane, Stockton-on-Tees ... (E) Nov. 1888 
Perrett, Jos. Richard, c/o Messrs. Sir W. S. Armstrong, Whitworth 

k Co., Elswick Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (N A) Nov. 1896 

Pesood, Joseph Hind, 1, RaUway Street, Jarrow.on-Tyne(S)lf/^^*®' ^®^- Jf^ 

/Member, Jan. 1900 

Petersen, John L., Havelock House, Victoria Road, West Hartlepool (8UR) Oct. 1888 

Petree, James, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 12, Oriel Chambers, 

Water Street, Liverpool (N A SUR) Oct. 1885 

Petterson, Carl Edwin, 7, Vestra Hamngaten, Gothenburg, Sweden (E) Oct. 1891 
Phayer, Robert P., 27, Edwards Road, Whitley Bay, Northumber- 

land ... ... ... ... ... ••■ ... •.. •«• C®) Dec. 190Q 

Philipson, Roland, Tynemouth (E) Dec. 1884 



I'ringle, Alfred, 10, Somerset Terrace. Walker-on-Tyne (S) ■ 



Phorson, P., Gten Lea, Roker, Sunderland (S) Not. IBS* 

Piand, Leon, c/o MeBsra. Delannej, BetlTJUe, k Co., St. Denis, 

France (NA)Ho». 1888 

Pierce, Robert Cecil, 14, West I'ark Oardens, Kew, ( Qradoste Dec. 1898 

Hnirey. (EE)lMember Dec 1899 

Pitt, Frederick William, br,2. CbcBter Road, Olil Trafford, Man- 

cheeter, 8.W (E SUR) Oct. 1890 

Poli, Bodolfo, Chioggia, Italy (N A) Jan. 1890 

Pollock, Walter, c/o MeBsrg. Jas. Pollock, Sods, & Co., 22, Billiter 

Btrcet, London, K.C (N A) April 1900 

Poegate, Jamea S„ Durham House, Windmill Street, Graves- / Oraduato, Not. 1896 

end, Kent (E)t Member, Dec. 1901 

Potta, CotbberL Ivan, 4, Sidney Road, Bootle, LiTcrpool (E) Oct. 1896 

Powell, James Richard, Royal Stnart Buildings, Caidiff ... .. (C E) May 1894 

Price, John, 6, Osborne Villas, Jeamond, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 1884 

I Graduate, Dec. 1891 
) Member, Jan. 1894 

Priiiffle,JameBQ., 10, Someraet Terrace, Walker-on-Tyne (S) Oct. 1893 

ProTen, George, :tS8, Leith Walk, Leith, N.B. ... (E) Mar. 1901 

Purdon, Anrlrew S,, Meesrs. Irrine'e Bhipbuilding and Dry Docks 

Co., Limited, West Hartlepool (S) Oct. 1892 

Purria, Andrew Alex., 17, Brook Terrace. Wbitley Bay, 

Northumberland (E) Dec. 1899 

PuTTli, Fred. W., c/o Messrs. Sir W. Gray * Co., Central Shipyard, 

WcBl HartlC]>ool ... (S) Aprill893 

Putnam, T., Darlington Forge, Darlington (FM) Nov. 1884 

Q- 
Quicke, Herbert Jolm, c/o Mesurs. Harfield k Co., BUydon Iron- 
works, BUydon-on-Tync (E) Feb. 1891 

R. 

Uamagc, J. T., St. Aubyn's, Bonnington, Bdinbui^h (E) April 1887 

Ramagc, John Anderson, 73. Glen Terrace, Hebburii-on-Tyne ... (S) Oct, 1892 

Itanken, UftTld. S, Brookside Terrace, Sunilerland ... (E) Not. 19CK> 

Rappaport, Kred. U„ Messrs. Russian Petroleum anrl Liquiil i Oraduato, Mar. 1891 

Fuel Co., Baku, South Russia (E) \ Member, Jan. ISQi 

Beadhead, Jas., Westoe Hnll, South Shields (S) Nov. 1881 

Beailhead, John, Bockclifle, Westoe, South Shields (E) Mar. 188G 




XXXI 

BLECTCD 

Reynolds, Charles H., c/o Messrs. Bunneister & Wain, Shipbuilders, 

Copenhagen, Denmark (S) Mar. 1889 

Reynolds, W. G., 14, Grosvenor Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Oct. 1886 
Rhodes, Joseph Henry, Stonyroyd, Oxbridge Lane, Stockton-on- 

X VCB ••• ••• ••• ••• ••■ ••! ••• ••• * 9 » I Cb J a*^ Vl T • 

Richardson, Sir Thomas, B.A., Hartlepool Engine Works, 

Hartlepool ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (E) April 

Richardson, John Lyth, Deddington Chambers, Hull (E) Nov. 

Richardson, Wigham, Wingrove House, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 

Rickaby, A. A., 27, Olive Street, Sunderland (E) Mar. 

Ridley, J. H., Park End, Wark-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 

Riley, J. H., Messrs. Riley Bros., Stockton-on-Tees (B B) May 

Riseley, Harry Lorimer, Western Villa, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 

Ritson, Maurice, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, Piazza S. Giorgio, 

32, Genoa ... (E SUR) Nov. 

Ritson, S. M., 7, Dogo Street, Cardiff (E /Graduate, Nov. 

\ Member, Nov. 

Roberts, W. C, 18, Windsor Road, Forest Gate, Essex (E) Mar. 

Robinson, Charles 0., Ingleside, North Shields ... (E) j ^'"^^^ate, Dec. 

f Member, Nov. 

Robinson, William, Delaval House, 3, Broxbourne Terrace, j Graduate, May 
Sunderland (E) iMember, April 

Robinson, Francis, The Vicarage, Willington Quay-on- (Graduate, Nov. 

Tyne (E) I Member, Jan. 

Robson, David M., 11, Village Terrace, South Shields (E) Nov. 

Robson, George, 9, Wellington Terrace, South Shields (E) Oct. 

Robson, George, 140, Aurelian Terrace, South Shields (E) Feb. 

Robson, John H., 22, Eversley Place, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 

Robson, J. M., 4, Abbey Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 

Robson, M., 20, Tavistock Place, Sunderland (S) Nov. 

Robson, Nathaniel E., 5, Park Villas, The Green, Wallsend- j Graduate, Dec. 
on-Tyne (E) / Member, Nov. 

Robson, John Hayes, 32, Pollard Street, South Shields (S) Feb. 

Rolwon, Robert, 5, St. Mary's Place, Newcastle-upon-Tyne j Graduate, Dec. 

(EE) ) Member. Mar. 

Rodgerson, Wm. John, 33, Brunswick Street, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 

Roger, Robert. Stockton Iron Foundry, West Row, Stockton-on-Tees (E) Nov. 

Rogers, Herbert M., Re<lcliffe, Durham Avenue, Bromley, Kent (SUR) April 

Rolf, George, 8, Bentinck Crescent, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E E) May 

Rolland, Alexander, Villa Ruzic, Susak, Fiume, Hungary (E) Mar. 

Ropner, Robert, Jun., Stockton-on-Tees (S) Feb. 

Rosenthal, James H., Woodville, 97, Eltham Road, Lee, Kent ... (E) Dec. 

Roseti, Capt. G. Sundblad, Callao 1442, Buenos Ayres, Argentine 

Republic ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (N A) June 

Rots, Charles, c/o Messrs. Smith's Dock Co., Ltd., High Docks, 

South Shields (E) Jan. 

Ross, William, 20, Meadow Side, Dundee (E) May 

Boutledge, Herbert J., Stapleton House, Jarrow-on- f Graduate, Mar. 

Tyne (E E) \ Member, Dec. 

Rowan, Jas., 231, Elliott Street, Glasgow (E) Nov. 

Rowell, G. W., 22, Armstrong Road, New Benwell, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Feb. 1885 



901 

888 
901 
884 
886 
884 
893 
900 

884 
887 
893 
901 
893 
899 
885 
888 
897 
902 
899 
889 
896 
885 
884 
884 
894 
897 
902 
894 
901 
901 
888 
889 
892 
892 
886 
896 

896 

898 
893 
897 
901 
886 



zxxii 

Rowell, H. B., Clengh Brae, J«unond East I^rk, Newcaitle-Dpoii- 

Tjae (Li/t atembfr) (8) Not. 1884 

Rcabni^h. Allan B.,21, QrkftoD Road, Whitley Ba;, Northumber- 
land (C) Jan. 1902 

Busden, L., 14, SanitersoD Road, Jeemond, Newcaatle-upOD-Tjne (E) Nov. 1884 

Rnseell, F. Herbert, Scotia Engine Works, Sunderland (E) Oct. 1891 

Bntherford, J. T., 39, Osborne Road, Strond Qreec Bowl, [ Gradute, Jan. 1886 

London, N (« 1 Member, Not. 1893 

BntherionI, Robert T., 3*, Denmark Street, Qateshead-on-Tyne ... (E) Not. 1S99 
Ryder, C. L., MesarB. The London Salvage A«aociation, Mount 

Stuart Square, CardiS (E) Oct. 1886 



Salman, P., G, The OAkB West, SnnderlaDd (E SUR) Nov. 

Saiideman,JohnWatt, 2,St. Nicholas' Bnildiugs, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Get. 

Banderson, J., 31, Park Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) Not. 

Sawyer, JobD, c/o Messrs. Tbos. Wilson, Sons, & Co., Hull ... (E) Oct. 

Rchaefler, A. Q., 16, Lombard Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Not. 
Bcutt, Ernest, Close Eagine Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E E) Not. 



Gcott, Oeorge, 36, Beds Burn Koad, Jurow-ou-Tync 



<S) 



J Qiaduate, Jan. 
I H^uber, May 

Scott, James, c/o Messrs. Conaett Iron Co., Blackhill, Co. Durham (E) Oct. 

Scott, Joseph, 49, Leaies Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E)|w hp ' n t 

flcott, Joseph B.| 9, Queen Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 

Scott, Walter, M, Hollybrook Boad, Clontarf, Dublin (NA) Mar. 

Scott. William, c/o Messis. R. k W. Hawthorn, Leslie k Co. 



1886 
1881 
1SS4 
1900 
1901 
1893 
1891 



i, Newcastle- opon-Tyne . 
Scott, William, Lyndhurst, 19, PlasCurton Avenue, Cardiff 
Scaburv, Edward, Burnt Mill House, Harlow, Kasex 
Seaman, C. J., Vyrintn House, Old Trafforth, Manchester 
Scaton, Albert Edward, Wilton House, Hoklcrocss Roa<l, Hull 

See, Horace, 1, Broadway, New York City, U.S.A 

Scrgcnt, William John, 4, Hereford Road, Sea forth, nc 

Shand, H., 0, Akenside Terrace. Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... 



I. i8e 



(E) Nov. 
(E) Jane 
(E) Mar. 
(E) Jan. 
(E> Jan. 1 
(E) May 1 

(E) Oct. 1: 
(E) Nov. 1 




ZXXIU 

ELKOTBD. 

Sinclair, Charles E., 18, James Street, Liverpool (C E) Jan. 1902 

Simpson, Kenneth, c/o Messrs. John Brown & Co., Clydebank i Graduate, Dec. 189H 

Shipbuilding Yard, Glasgow (S) ( Member. Oct. 1895 

Sinton, John K., 26, Sandhill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1885 

Sisson, Wm., Gloucester (E It N A) Oct. 1888 

Sivewright, G. W., 5, Radcliffe Terrace, Hartlepool (S) Nov. 188G 

Skentelbery, Charles, c/o Messrs. Jacobs, Davies, and Barringer, 

163, Mick Street, Boston, U.S.A. (E) Oct. 1900 

Skentelbery, Joseph W., 7, Washington Terrace, North Shields ... (E) Dec. 1900 

T 1. «« T> , m c. i.1. ou- ij .-.(Graduate, Dec. 1886 

Skinner, Leslie, 22, Ravensbourne Terrace, South Shields(S)-( . ^ 

Smissen, C. V. Van Der, c,o Mesei-s. Hamburg-American Steamship 

Co., Hamburg (E) Dec. 1901 

Smith, C. B., Cowesby, Clifton Avenue, West Hartlepool (E) Nov. 1888 

Smith, E. J., Brandon House, Haughton-le-Skerne, Darlington ... (E) Dec. 1900 
Smith, L. Eustace, Rose worth Cottage, Moor Road, Gosforth, ( Graduate, Oct. 1889 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) I Member, Oct. 1892 

Smith, Thomas, Steam Crane Works, Old Foundry, Rodley, near Leeds (E) Oct. 1888 
Smith, Thomas Edward, Messrs. John Smith & Sons, Newgate 

Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) April 1885 

Smith, Wm., 152, Roker Avenue, Sunderland, M (E) Nov. 1884 

Smith, Wm. Stawart, West Villa, The Green, Wallsend-on- 1 Graduate, Nov. 1893 

Tyne (S) » Member, Dec. 1897 

Sneddon, Alex. Russell, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 3, St. y 

Nicholas Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E SUR) Nov. 1899 

Snell, John F. C, Borough Electrical Engineer, Town Hall, 

Sunderland (E E) Mar. 1902 

Snook, Francis W. G., 32, Sunbury Avenue, West Jesmond, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 189r> 

Soliani, Nabor, Col., Direttore del Cantiere Ansaldo, Sestri- 

Ponente, Italy (S) Jan. 1885 

Spark, H. King, Messrs. The Anti-Attrition Metal Co., Ltd., 

Emerson Street, South wark, London, S.E (E) May 1898 

Spearman, Richanl,Eachwick House, Dalton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Feb. 1889 
Spence, W. G., c/o Messrs. Wigham llicliardson A: Co., Xeptune 

Works, Walker-on-Tyne (Lf/e Member) (E) Nov. 1884 

Spencer, J. W., Newburn Steel Works, Newburn-on-Tyne ... (E) Feb. 1885 

Squire, Charles E., 4, Eden Place, Newcastle Road, Sunder- (Graduate, Nov. 1893 

land (EE)lMember, Oct. 1898 

Staig, William Andrew, Station Road, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (E) Feb. 1897 
Stanley, John T., 70, Falmouth Koad, Heaton, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Oct. 1898 

Stansfield, George R., 1, Limlen Gardens, Harton Village, South 

Shields (E) Mar. 1891 

Stephen, A. E., Linthouse, Govan, Glasgow (E It S) June 1896 

Stephen, John Murray, Linthouse Engine Works, Govan, Glasgow (E) Oct. 1895 
Stephens, H. C. J., 94, Fortress Road. Kentish Town, ( Graduate, Oct. 1890 

London, N.W (E) I Member, Nov. 1897 

Stephens, Thomas S., 16, Archbold Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) April 1901 

Stephenson, Bernard, 33, Albert Road Kast, Crossbill, (Jlasgow (E) Dec. 1896 

Stephen.son, C, 2. Elm Terrace, The Green, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 1884 

vou xvin,— 1902, ^ 



XXZIF 

8t«*eaHiD, Robert, BeDtham Buildings, The Side, Kewcaetle-npoD- 

Tync (E) Oct. IMO 

Stevenson, Wm., Bnok Chambere, Saodbill, Newcastle- upon -T;ne (E) Nov. 1S84 
Stewart, James, 13, Otterbum Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle -upon - 

Tyne (E) Oct. 1890 

Stirling, Andrew, Jun., 1, Oreeuvale Terrace, Dumbarton (E) Feb. 18SS 

Stirzsker, J. C, 16, QrosTeoor Place, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Not. 1884 
Btoddart, A. Lane, Torfc House, Hewortb Village, Fellfng-on- 

Tyne, B,8.0 (S) Nov. 1898 

8t<Mldart, J. E., Lloyd's Regialerof Shipping, TI.FeacbuTch Street, 

London, E.C (E SUR) Oct. 1888 

Btoddart, 8winton,S,Ormonde'Street, Sunderland... (S) J ^""'""W, May 1886 
' ' ' 1 Member, Nov. 1882 

Stoney, Gerald, c/o Hessn. C. A. Parsons k Co., Tnrbinia Works. . 

Heaton, Newcaatle.upon-Tjne .,, (£y jjaj 1903 

Stuart, Jobn. 67, Heaton Park Road, Newcaatle-upon-Tyne rOraduate Dec. 189G 
<e) 1 Member, Nov. 1901 

Stapersky, Antony, ElsdoD Terrice, Percy Main (8) May 1901 

Summers, James, 1, Vicarage Terrace, Newtown, Stockton-on- 
Tees (Z) Mar. 1889 

Suneea, Charles, 4, Cordwell Street, Huker, Sunderland (S) Dec. 1900 

Surtees, B., 82, Alexander Terrace, Qatesliead-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1884 

Swainston, William, 103, Cardigan Terrace, Heatuii, NewcagtUi- 

upon-Tyne (FM) Nov. 1900 

Swan, A. S., Printing Court Bfiil.Uiigg, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 1888 
Swan, Charles Shcriton, c/o Messrs. C S. Swan k Hunter, , Uraduate, Nov. IdOO 

Wallsend-on-Tyne (S) I Member, Mar. 1894 

Swan,H.F.,NorthJeBmond,Newcaatle-upoii-Tyne(t./e*fi«'<».-) (S) Nov. 1884 
Swinburne, M. W., 117, Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne .. (E) Nov. 1884 

Swinburne, Matthew, Ktazer Terrace, Hcwoith, Felling-on- , OraduBie, May 1809 

Tyne (S) I Member, April li)01 

Swinburne, T. M., 18, ^ewick Road, Qateshead-on- I'ync (E) Jan. 188G 

Swinney, W„ 10, Wentwortb Terrace, Westoe Lane, South Shields (E) I'ec. 1888 
Syme, James, Fairfield Works, Ooynn, (llaHgow ... ... (E) Oct. 1892 

r. 

Tate, Chas. H., 7, Side, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (N A) Nov. 188* 

Taylor. AlexanJer, Maritime Buildinits, Kinj; Street, Newcastle- 




Xxxv 

feLECtED. 

Thompson, Arthur E., 10, Qowan Villas, Jesmoud, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) May 1898 

Thompson, C. E., Thornbeck, Thornhill Park, Sunderland ... ($) Nov. 1884 

Thompson, Jas., 2, Oarlton Terrace, Sunderland (E) Dec. 1886 

Thompson, John Augustus, 9, Billiter Square, London, E.C. (E It N A) Oct. 1892 

Thompson, J. L., Westholme Hall, Winston-on-Tees (S) Nov. 1884 

Thompson, Joseph Andrew, Langham Tower, Sunderland ... (S) Nov. 1901 

Thompson, Robert Norman, Langham Tower, Sunderland ... (S) Nov. 1901 

Thompson, Robert, North Sands Shipyard, Sunderland (S) Nov. 1884 

Thomson. James, M.A., c/o Messi-s. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whit- 
worth & Co., Ltd., Ordnance Works, Elswick, Newcastle- 
Thorn, W. H., 5, Waterville Terrace, North Shields (E) Nov. 1884 

Thornton, James M.» c/o Messrs. R. Gordon & Co., Post Office Build- 
ings, Hudson Street, South Shields (E) April 189» 

Thyne. John Sinclair (S) Dec. 1899 

Tinn, Fred. D., North View, Mowbray Koad, South Shields ... (S) Nov. 1891 

Tinn, George, 205, Cardigan Terrace, Gateshead -on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1897 

Tobin, Thos. Charles, 57, Gordon Terrace. Chester Road, Sunder- 
land (^S) Feb. 1901 

Tocher, J. W., c/o Messrs. Wallsend Slipway and Engineering Co., 

Wallsend-on-Tyne (S) Mar. 1898 

Todd. John P., 13, Chatsworth Street, Sunderland (E) Dec. 1897 

Todd, George William, 53, Victoria Road, Hebburn-on-Tyne ( Graduate, Jan. 1898 

(S) ' Member, Dec. 1899 
Todd, William Surtees. 1. Akenside HilL Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (N A) Nov. 1901 

Toomer, C. R., Isavenswuith, Westoe, South Shields (E) Jan. 1899 

Toovey, Alfred F., Ovington Cottage, Prudhoe, Northumberland (E) Dec. 1894 

Tose, Thomas, 30, Thornton Street, West Hartlepool (E) Mar. 1901 

Towers, Edward, Jun., 4, Latimer Street, Tynemouth (E) i^^^^^^^* ^ov- 1^86 

^ ^ ^ \ Member, Oct. 1888 

Toyne, G. A. Dryden, Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 3, St. 

Nicholas* Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (8UR) April 1899 

Trail, John, 21, Grosvenor Place, Jesmond, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (M S) Oct. 1892 

Traill, Robert, 8, Newcastle Street, North Shields (E) Oct. 1896 

Trechmann, J. E., Norton Loilge, Stockton-on-Tees (E) Feb. 1898 

Trewent, F. J., 43, Billiter Buildings, Billiter Street, London, 

Bt.Kj, ... ... ... ... ... ... .•• ••■ v,^y l^eC. Ioo4 

Trowell, Wm. John, Board of Trade Surveyor's Offices, Custom 

House, Arcade, Liverpool (E) Oct. 1894 

Tsimenis, Andrew, Durham College of Science, Newcastle- r Graduate, Oct. 1900 
upon-Tyne (N A) I Member, Jan. 1902 

Tumbull, John, 18, Meldon Terrace, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov 1898 

Tamer, Charles N., 21, Lansdowne Terrace, Gosforth, New- r Graduate, April 1896 
castle-upon-Tyne (E) \ Member, Dec. 1901 

Turner, B. J., 71, Warwick Street, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Mar. 1887 

Tarpie, David Whyte, c/o Messrs. W. Pickersgill & Sons, South- 
wick, Sunderland ... (8) Dec. 1895 

Taxen, Holger, Bureau Veritas Register of Shipping, Heibersgade, 

14, Copenhagen, K. (S) Nov. 1896 

Twaddell, James L., Green Bank, Jarrow-on-Tyne (S) Oct. 1891 



xixvl 

TwuQiiy.G. K.,l,Gro8veiior Villas, Jeamond.Newcastle-upon-Tjnc! (E) Maj 1899 
Tweedy, John, Kelso House, Femwood Road, Jesmond, Newcastk- 

iipon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1881 

Tweedy, John, 5, Bellevue Terrace, North Shields (E) April 1899 



Dim, Johu, The Arsenal, Pola, Auntria 
Uiquhart, Douglas H., 13, Oill tiide Qroi 



, Itoker, Suntierland .. 



(E) Nov. 1886 
(S) May 1899 



V. 



Vardy, Geortfi;, vjo Messrs. William Richardson & Co., fGraduate, Oct. 1894 

Neptune Workj, Newcastle-upou-Tyiie ... (E) lUeinber, 1898 

Varty, Barthotomen- Snowball, Ulassensgade 2l>, Stucii < Graduate Oct. 189S 

Poterbro, Copenhagen (5) I Member May 1901 

Vianson, N. E., tid Corsica 2i}ffi, Genoa, Italy (E) Dec. 1885 

Vick. a. W., Messrs. Furuess, Witliy i Co., Mkldletou Shipyard, 

West Hartlepool ... (S) Not. 1888 

Vowell, JoBiai, 25, Jackson Street, Sunderland (E) Keb. 1901 



Waclflgaki. VasUKo, 
Wailes, William C. 



Navy l>i.'partmetil, Tokiu, Japai 
, 23, Uichmond Road, Cardiff 



(E) Jan. 

rOradnate, Nov, 
' ' 1 Member, Nov. 
Thomas Herbert, Call's Buildings, tjuHy»ide. Newcastle- 



upon-Tyne ...(C E) Dec. U 

Wake. Tom, 2, Clifflerrnce. Hart.le|M»l ... (E) AprilH 

Walker, Archilald, U3, Leith Walk. Leith, N.B {E> April U 

Walker, Henry, 11, OxronI Terrace, Gateahead-on-Tyne (E E) Feb. 1* 

Walker, James, e/o McHsrs. River Tyne Comminsioners' OfHee, 

Bewick Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (C E) Nov. 1* 

Walker, John, e/n Mensra. R. Stephenson & Co.. Limited, South 

Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E t S) Ni 



Walker, Sept. H., 37, Washington Terrace, North Shields 

Wallan, J., 16, Woodhouse Terrace, Oateshead-un-Tyne 

Waller, Th<,ma8 Naunton, 10, Holly Avenue. Jeeniond, Newcastle- 
up(m-Tjne 

Wallia, TioLcrt, Wh.Se,, I'oint Plt:a»ant H..i.se, Wallscml 



CE) Nov. 1 
CE) Nov. 1 




xxxvii 



KLECTfiD. 

Watson, Michael, 4, St. Nicholas 'Buiklinj^s, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (C E) Oct. 1900 
Watson, Thomas Henry, 10, Neville Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (SUR) Jan. 1896 

Watts, James Arthur, 16, Westoe Parade, South Shields (E) Nov. 1900 

Watts, Philip, The Admiralty, Whitehall, S.W (S) Nov. 1885 

Wawn, Tom Noel, c/o Messrs. Lloyd's Register of Shipping, 

Franklinstrasse 30, Dusseklorf, Germany (SUR) Jan. 1900 

Webster, William Milne, 23, North View Heaton, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Nov. 1900 

Weidemann, Nils, Det-Norske Veritas, Christiania, Norway ...(SUR) Jan. 1892 
Weighton, R. L., M.A., 2, Park Villas, Gosforth, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Weir, George Dobie, Sunderland Engine Works, South Docks, 

Sunderland (E) Oct. 1894 

Weir, John, 46, Lawrence Street, Partick, Glasgow (E) Nov. 1884 

Weir, William, 190, Nithsdale Road, Pollokshields, Glasgow ... (E) Nov. 1889 

Welton, J. G., 41, Sydenham Terrace, Sunderland (E) Nov. 1893 

West, Henry H., British and Foreign Chambers, 5, Castle Street, 

Liverpool (E It N A) Oct. 1886 

Westgarth, Tom, Messrs. Richardsons, Westgarth & Co., 

Middlesbrough (E) Oct. 1886 

Westmacott, Alfred, Clairvaux, St. Helens, Isle ' of « Graduate, Dec. 1885 

Wight (E) I Member, Nov. 1892 

Westmacott, P. G. B., Rose Mount, Sunninghill, Berks (E) Nov. 1884 

Wheater, Chas. Busfield, 73, Rothbury Terrace, Heaton, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1894 

White, A. F., c/o Messrs. Nippon Yusen Kaisha, Tokyo, Japan ... (E) Feb. 1901 

White, C, 13, Mosley Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

White, R. Saxon, Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., 

Ltd., Walker Shipyard, Walkcr-on-Tyne (S) Nov. 1884 

Whitfield, Ernest, 11, Victoria Terrace, Low Fell, Gateshead-on- 

Tyne (E) Dec. 1899 

Whitfield, Thomas, Messrs. Tyne Dock Engineering Co., South 

Shields (E) April 1896 

Whittaker, Frederick W., Dockyard, Coburg Dock, Messrs. Mersey 

Docks and Harbour Board, Liverpool (E) Oct. 1892 

Why t€, James Anderson, 196, Watt Street, Glasgow ... .. (E) May 1902 

Whyte, Wm., Eastrigg, Corbridge-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1884 

Widdas, T. D., 56, Plasturton Avenue, Cardiff (SUR) April 1886 

Widdowfield. John H.. 3, Beaconsfleld Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Wight, Henry D., 7, Holmlands Park, Sunderland (E E) Dec. 1898 

Wildridge, Richard, c/o R. W. Brachead, Bury Street, N. ( Graduate, Oct. 1895 

Sydney, N.S.W (E) I Member, Oct. 1898 

Wilkin, Bmest V., 11, Appold Street, Finsbury, London, j Graduate, Nov. 1892 

K.C (CE)} Member, Oct. 1898 

Wilkinson, Thomas, 9, Laburnum Avenue, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 1899 

Willcox. Henry Walker, 15. Norfolk Street, Sunderland (C E) Nov. 1897 

Willcox, Percy F. C, 15, Norfolk Street, Sunderland (C E) Nov. 1897 

Willcox, R. J. N., 3, The Oaks West, Sunderland ... (E) -f ^J^"*^» ^^^' ^^^^ 

^ ^ I Member, Dec. 1897 

Williams, M. Lucas, 19, Barratt Street, Stockton-on-Tees (E) Nov. 1900 

WilliamB, Thomas, Messrs. South Durham Steel & Iron Co., West 

Hartlepool (llb8M)Dec. 1900 



XAXVIII 



WiUkmi, Thamas EL, Hi!, Bede Burn Road, Jarrow-oD-Tyuu ... (S) Oct. I 
Wttliaauon, Robt. TsCs, 119, Beds Burn Koail. Jarrow-on-Tynu ... (C) Oct. I 
Wilson, B.SO., Alfred Camitliera, 7, Morth View, Jarrow-on.Tjne (E) Not. 1 

Wilson, Bdtnand, Leazes Park, New caatle- upon -Tyne (E) Not. 1 

Wilson, Henr; J. H., 117, Bede Burn Road, Jarniw-on- 

Tjne (E) Not. 1 

Wilson, Henry Maxson, 42, OrosTenor Road, NewcBatls-npon-Tyne (E) May 1 
Wilson. Jamca. Messrs. Richardsons, Wes^arth & Co., Hartlepool 

Ungine Works, Hartlepool (E) Jan. 1 

Wilson, John Paul, 123, Osborne Road, Jesmond, Newcastle-on-Tyne (S) Oct. I 
Wilson, John Reginald, Lyndhurst, llosforth.Newcastle-upon- (Graduate. Mar. 1 

Tjne (EE)1 Member, Dec. 1: 

Wiiaon, William 8., 123, Osborne Road, Jesmonrt, Newcastler ( Graduate, Not. 1 

uiion.Tjne (EE)\Member. Mar. 1: 

Wimble, Arthur, 1, Queen Street, Jersay (Et Dec. 11 

WinstAnley, P. D., Bureau Veritas Register of Shipping, ISu, 

Fenchurch Street, Lonilon 

Withy, H„ Middleton Shipyard, West Hartlepool 

Wood, Henry Alfred, Oakfield Ro»d, North Ormesby, Middles- 

brough-on-Tees 

Wood, John 9cott, R. Eslington Terrace, Newcastle- upon- / Qraduate, Oct. 

Tyne (S) 1 Member, Oct. 18! 

Wood, William, 6, Bslirifrton Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... <S) Not. 18! 
Woodeson, Wm. A.. 13, Richmond Terrace, Gateshead -on -Tyne ... (E) Nov. ]!K 
Wortley, Henry B., Kent Hoqbc, Egerton Part, Rock Ferry. ) Graduate, Jan. 18( 

Birkenhead (S) I Member, Nov. 18! 

Wotherspoon, James Duughus 39, Hainton Street, Grimsby ... (E) April ItM 
Wiay, Thomas W., Board of Tra.lc OIHceB, Sunderlan.l (SUR) Jan. 18! 

Wright, Geol^e H,, 2S, Albuiy Park Road, Tynemoutb (EE) { j^^^l^^"' j^' igj 

Wright, R., 5, Hawthorn TBrraec, Newcastle-upou-Tyne (E) "Nov. 18( 

Wynd, William Adam, 8, Dilston Terrace, Oosforth, Newcastle- 

upon-T^no (NA) Feb. \SQ 

Wyse, Thomas. North Lodge, Walker-on-Tyoe (E) Not. 18S 



(S) Not. 18 
(S) Nov. 18 



(S) Dec. 18 



Voung, Andrew, Bureau Veritas, RogiHter of Shipping, 156, ) Graduate. Feb. II 
Fenchurch Street, London, K.C (S> ' Member, May 11 




XXXIX 

ELKOTBD. 

Annstrong, S., Victoria Road, West Hartlepool (A) Nov. 1888 

ArmstroDg, Thomas Henry, Blanchland House, Willington-Quay- 

on-Tyne (E A) Nov. 1900 

Amott, James, 25. Dean Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ...(8 O) Oct. 181^5 

B. 

Barklam, George, Burnt Tree Villa, Tipton, Staffordshire ... (A) April 1888 

Barr, John Smith, 16, Broad Chare, Quayside, Newc^tle-upon- 

xyuCt. ••. ... ... ... ••• ... «*• *•• i^%) ^ o V . lOvO 

Barnes, Henry, 43, Otto Terrace West, Sunderland (A) Nov. 1901 

Barwick, T. S., Ashbrook Grange, Sunderland (S O) Nov. 1884 

Beynon, Thomas, Hamburg Chambers, Quayside, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E A) Oct. 1891 

Bigge, C. W., Northern Counties Club, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A) Dec. 1889 

Bingham, Col. J. E., West Lea, Ranmoor, Sheffield (M) Mar. 1896 

Bird, William, 22, Percy Gardens, Tynemouth (A) May 1896 

Borrie, Walter, Messrs. Blair & Co., Ltd., Stockton-on-Tees ... (A) Jan. 1899 
Bowmer, John S., 8, Tankerville Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne... (S O) Nov. 1901 
Brims, D. N., 4, St. Nicholas' Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (C) Nov. 1893 
Brown, Charles Ernest, 1, Ashleigh Villas. East Boldon, near 

Sunderland (A) Oct. 1900 

Brown, Percy Ledger, 1, St. Nicholas* Buildings, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E A) Oct. 1896 

Brunton, John, 3, Prior's Terrace, Tynemouth r ...(S O) Oct. 1886 

Bullen, Tempest C, c/o Messrs. H. E. Moss & Co., K, Exchange 

Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (S O) Nov. 1891 

C. 

Carr, Ralph, Thornleigh, Clayton Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A It S O) Nov. 1886 

Caws, Frank, 22, Fawcett Street, Sunderland (C E) Oct. 1892 

Cay, Arthur, Messrs. Cay, Hall & Co., Exchange, Cardiff (SO) Nov. 1884 

Cohan, Edward Asher, 2, Rumford Place, Liverpool (SO) Nov. 1889 

Cory, John, 14, Mount Stuart Square, Cardiff (SO) June 1896 

Coull, John, Baltic Chambers, Quayside, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S O) Oct. 1886 
Coverdale, R. H., Messrs. J. Coverdale & Sons, Steamship Owners, 

West Hartlepool (SO) Nov. 1888 

Crawford, Thomas, 10, Haidane Terrace, West Jesmond, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A) Oct. 1896 

Crosier, Edward James, 3, The Hawthorns, East Boldon (A) Oct. 1889 

Culley, F. I., Northumberland Terrace, Tynemouth (A) Nov. 1899 

Culliford, J. H. W., 45, West Sunniside, Sunderland (S O) Nov. 1884 

D. 

Dixon, Thomas, c/o Messrs. Sir Raylton Dixon & Co., Ltd.. 

Shipbuilders, Middlesbrough (A) May 1902 

Dodds, E. F., 36, Side, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A) Nov. 1893 

Dodds, John B., 36, Side, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (CHEM) Oct 1888 

Donkin, Geo., Jun., 50, Grove Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A) April 1897 
Dove, Edward John, 5, St. Nicholas' Buildings, Newcastie-npon- 

Tyne ... ... ... ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• (M) Oct. 1890 

Douglas, John, c/o Messrs. Walker & Hall, 60, Grey Street, New- 

c»8tle-u|)on-Tyne ... ... ... •» • (A) Oct, 1898 



Bcclea, Kdward, Royal Inxurance Buildings, Queen Street, Sew- 

coitle-apoa-Tyae (Li/e AuMiate) ...(SO) Oct. 168T 

Evans, Fred. Qeorge, 10, Neville Street, NewcBHtle-upon-Tyne ... (A) Not. 19D1 



PcUoHK, Alfred. Bergholt HouEe, Park Road. J arrow-on .Tyne {lliSM) Nov. lyOI 
France, James A., St. John Street, Neircaxlle-upOD-Tyne ... (M) Jan. 1S9» 

Frazer, Joseph S., Biitannia BuildingB, Cardiff (M) June 1896 

Fomess, Sir Christopher, Baltic Chambers, West Han[ep*>i . (S O) Ont. 1888 
ForBter, George, 8, Warwick Street, Heaton, Newcastle-npon-Tjne Oct. 1898 



Geary, William, Parkxide, St. Aidan's Road, South Shields 
Gore, Thomas Hosktns. 52, Queen's Square, Bristol 
Graham, Frank, 21, Groat Market. Newcastle-upon-Tyne 



...{M S) May 1899 

...(SO) April 1P02 
...(E A) Nov. 1891 



Hardy, John, Jun., BrnnswicL Street, West Hartlepool ... ... (I M) Nov. 189;; 

Harland, George, 1, Westoe Crescent, South Shields (A) Dec. 1888 

Harris, John T., c/o Messrs Irviue's Shipbuilding Co., Ltd., 

Weat HartlBjiool (A) Mar. 19l>2 

Harrison, Samuel Turner, The Green, Wallsend (A) Nov. 1897 

Harrison, Thomas, 9, Bridge Street, Sunderland (A) Dec. 1894 

Hedley, John H.. 7, Aahbrook Terrace, Sunderland (S) Dec. 1896 

Hedley, Robert, 3, Summerhill Grove, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A) Nov. 1899 

Henderson. John T., 3. Logan Terrace. South Shields (M) May 1900 

Heniell. Chas. Wright, Royal Insuranve Buildings. Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (A) Nov. 1901 

Henzell, Robert, Northern Oil Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (i'/f 

A-(>riate^ (A) Nov. 189,^ 

HeBlop,RichardO.,H.A.,Alien8ideHill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (I li S M) Oct. 1886 

Hinchliffe. John, 25, Haivtborn Street, Ncwcaatle-upon- Type ... (A) Nov. 1899 
Hodges. ThomaB Wm., 8B, Oslximc Road, Newcaslle-u|)on- 

Tyae (A) Nov. 1899 




xU 
J. 

ELECTED. 

Jennings, Albert Edward, 4, The Crescent, Gateshead-on-Tyne ... (M) Nov. 1901 
Jobson, W. J., c/o Messrs. Robert Stephenson 8c Co., South Street, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A) May 1889 

Jordan, John Gteorge, 6, Cedais Crescent, Ryhope Road, Sunder- 

lanci ••■ ... ... ... ... ... ... ,,. ... \A) piov. 1892 

K. 

Kendall, Alfred H., Messrs. Northern Trading Co., Ltd., East 

Boldon, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (M) Nov. 1901 

Knott, James, Prudential Buildings, Newcastle-on-Tyne (SO) Dec. 1896 

L. 

Lloyd, John, Deptford Shipyard, Sunderland (A) Oct. 1894 

Lockie, John, 21, Dean Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (S O) Oct. 1892 

Lodwidge, Philip, Baltic Chambers, Sunderland (A) June 1896 

Lord, W. R., 41, Queen's Road, Jesmond, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ...(M M) Feb. 1900 
Lucock, George, Dean House, Tyne Dock (M) Oct. 1900 

M. 

Macarthy, George E., 54, Pilgrim Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ...(S O) Oct. 1887 
Mail, Douglas B., 3, St. George's Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (M S) Feb. 1895 

Maughan, William, 13, Mosley Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A) Feb. 1887 
McBeath, Harry C, Stromness, Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees ... (A) Dec. 1900 

Mcintosh, R. Y., 34, Dean Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E A) Nov. 1891 

Maclntyre, John, 3, Abbotsford Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne... (S O) Jan. 1885 

Meek, John George, 13, Belle Vue Park, Sunderland (A) Dec. 1894 

Milbum, J. D., Queen Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (SO) Nov. 1884 

Miller, T. R., 9, Great St. Helen's, London, E.C (A Ic S O) Nov. 1884 

Mitcalfe, John Stanley, Chairman of Northern Maritime Insurance 

Co., Maritime Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (A It S O) Jan. 1892 

Morton, Benjamin, 18, St. George's Square, Sunderland (SUP) Dec. 1895 

Moss, J. Frank. Jr., 48, Clifford Road, Sharow, Sheffield (S M) Nov. 1901 

Mulherion, G. P., Birtley Avenue, Tynemouth (A) Nov. 1884 

MuUer, J. C. F., 79, Rue Harringrode, Antwerp (SUR) Feb. 1890 

Murray, Henry H., Hastings Lodge, Hartlepool (A) Dec. 1901 

Murrmy, Matthew, The Green, Wallsend-on-Tyne (A) Nov. 1893 

N. 

Naismith, John, Neptune Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A) Nov. 1901 

Nielsen, Hans Christian, 12, Cliff Terrace, Hartlepool (S O) Feb. 1898 

Nixon, John, c/o Messrs. Blyth Shipbuilding Co., Blyth (A) Oct. 1894 

O. 

Olsen, Hans Benedick, 70, Church Street, West Hartlepool ...(SO) Mar. 1893 

voUiXvin.— 1902, / 



Part, Robert, Lfturigtoo, Blackhill, Co. DuThftm 
Parker, George, 62, Jobn Street, Sunderland 
Patterson, Thoe., 2, The Elms, Sauderland ... 



(A) Dec 1897 
(A) X>cc. 189B 

(S) Jan. ISSe 



Petersen, William, MeBsrs, Petersen k Tate, Bank Cbambers, 

Sandhill, Newcastle-upon-TTne ... (S O) Not. 1893 

Phalp, Oliver, Alnjora, 87, Richmond Eoad, Cardiff (SUR) Feb. 1889 

Pinkney, ThomaB, 3, Ashbroofc Terrace, Sunderland (S O) Dec. 1886 

PottB, TumbuU, Tyne Docks, Sonth Shields (SUR) Not. 1898 

Pringle, Qeorge Frederick, 29, Orainger 8ti«et Weat, Newcaatle- 

npon-ljne „ ^t A) May 1901 

Proctor, J. H., 22, Hawthorn Terrace, Newcastle-npon-TTue ... ' (I M) Not. 1893 
Purvis, Alexaoder, Alban; Chnmbers, King Street, South Sbietds (M) Nor. 1901 
Py bus, William M.,Jun., 86, Osborne Road, Newcastle- upon-Tvne April 1899 



Eaine, John, Baltic Chambers, Sunderland (S O) 

Ramsay, J. W„ 13, Nortbbrook Road, Lee, Kent (A) 

Ramsa;, Norman F., 20, Sanderson Road, Newcastle (B F) 

Reichwald, A., Finsbury Pavement House, Finsbnry Pavement, 

London, E.C (A) 

Reid, Sidney, Printer, Akenside Hill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 
Renwick, G., M.P., Messrs. Fisher, Renwick & Co., Maritime 

Buildings, King Street, Newcastle-upon-Tjne (S O) 

Rimer, William Thomas, Craigielea, Low Fell, Galeshead-on-Tyns (M) 

Ritsoa, Arthur, SO, West Sanniside, Sunderland (9 O) 

Robson, John William, a. King Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (M) 
Rogers, Thomas W., c/o Messrs. Sir C. Furness, Withy & Co., West 

Hartlepool (A) 



Nov. 1897 

Feb. I88S 
Jan. 1902 



Nov. 1884 
Not. 1900 
Feb. 1899 
April 1896 

Hay 1901 



Scholeficld, A., 17, Sandhill, Newcastlc-upon-Tync 

Scott, W. H., Messrs. ficott Brothers, 46, Sandhill, Newcaatlo-upon- 

T)^= 

Sisson, W. E., 9, Northumberland Terrace, Tynemouth 
Snowdon, W. F., 32, Side, Ncwcnatle-upon-Tync ... 
Squance, J. W., IS, The Avenue, Sunderland 
Stellybraas, William -S.. 30. Dean 



.. (S O) Nov. 1881 

<S 0) Nov. 1884 

(A) Nov. 1899 

(E A) Dec. 1886 

(MS) April 1868 

Mar. 11*01 




xliii 

Et.ECTKD. 

Temple, George T., 20, Beach Avenue, Whitley Bay, Northumber- 

l&Uvl ••• ... «■• •«« .a. act ,,, ••• ... ^My w &U» J.09jr 

Temple, John, Baltic Chambere, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S U R) Mar. 1901 

Thompson, John 8., 2, Claremont Terrace, Newcastle-npon-Tyne... (A) Nov. 1901 
Thompson, Wm; H., 5, Albany Gardens. Whitley Bay, North- 

nmberland .. (A) Nov. 1899 

Thompson, V. T., Baltic Chambers, Sunderland (SO) Dec. 1886 

Thorpe, Samuel, . Market Place, Chambers 74, High Street, 

Sheffield (I Ir S M) Feb. 1901 

Todd, John Stanley, Percy Park, Tynemouth (U) Nov. 1895 

Towers, Bdward, 4, Latimer Street, Tynemouth (A) Oct. 1888 

Towers, Michael G., Clementhorpe, North Shields (A A) Dec. 1899 

Trechmann, Otto E., Church Street, West Hartlepool (SO) Oct. 1896 

Tolly, Robert, 9, The Lawe, South Shields (MS) May 1900 

Turner, Bdwin, 32, Powell Road, Clapton, London, N.B (A) Oct. 1896 

W. 

Wainford, Edgar H., Oswald House, Green Lane, Spennymoor ... (A) Nov. 1899 

Wallace, H. S. {Life Associate) (S) May 1899 

Ward, Heber, Messrs. Walker & Hall, Sheffield (A) Feb. 1901 

Wardle, James, 7, Osborne Terrace, Gosforth, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (M) Nov. 1901 

Watson, Thomas W., Gisburn House, Hartlepool (MS) Nov. 1890 

Weatheral, Henry, 27, Alderson Street, West Hartlepool (A) Feb. 1893 

Weller, William, 7; Lovaine Terrace, North Shields (SO) Dec. 1899 

Wilkie, John WilKam, Prince's Buildings, Quayside, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (SO) Oct. 1900 

Willis, Thomas W., 143, Stockton Road, West Hartlepool (S O) Nov. 1899 

Wilson, F. Alfred, 45, West Sunniside, Sunderland (I M) Nov. 1893 

Wilson, James, 61, Falmouth Road, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A) Nov. 1901 
Winstanley, Robt. Hope, 8, Kenilworth Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (A) Nov. 1897 
Winter, B. G., 56, Avenue Road, Gateshead-on-Tyne (A) May 1898 

Y. 

Yeoman, F., Ship and Steamship Broker, West Hartlepool ...(SO) Nov. 1888 
Young, J. A., St. Ann's Rope Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (R M) May 1901 
Young, John Barrow, Optician, 46, Dean Street, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne ... ... ... •.. ••• ••• ••• ••• Nov. 1901 

Younger, Robert Laurie, Messrs. Greenock Steamship Co., Limited, 

Greenock ... ... ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• ••• (A) Feb, 1889 

GRADUATES. 

A. 

Allan, Percy F., Wansbeck Street, Jarrow-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Allen, John C 20, Mayfair Road, West Jesmond, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Dec. 1899 

Anderson, Thomas C, Bigges Main House, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (E) Mar. 1902 

Andrew, John Davis, 33, Osl)orne Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Jan. 1898 

Atkinson, Harry, 1»7, Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Atkinson, Thomas C, Bigges Main House, Wallsend-on-Tyne ... (E) Dec 1899 



Bailey, Ralph U., 3, South Avenue, Rytoa-on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1901 

BaiT, Robert, 40, Oxford Street, Barrow-iD-FuraeM (E) Nov. 1901 

BeDnett,Qeoi^ H., 16, Osborne Terrace, GateBhead-upon-Tyne... (S) Dec. 1900 

Berriraan, A. E., 39, West Bank, Scarborough (E E) Feb. 1900 

Bertram, S. Norman, c/o Messrs. Tbe Lilteslian Co., Ltd., Engine 

Department, Oakengaies, Shropshire (S) Feb. 1901 

Blake, Lionel J. B., Bectory Place, QateBheail-on-Tyne Nov. 1S99 

Booth, John U. M., Sberbum Hou^e. Durham (E) Not. 1901 

Bowerbank, Albert William, 52, Victoria Avenue, Whitley Bay, 

Northumberland (S) No¥. 1900 

Bonmer, Matthew M., 8, Tankcrville Terrace, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1900 

BaUen, Thos. H,, 15, Caroline Street, Jarrow Mar. 1900 

BurgeBB, Noiral H., 46, North View, Heaton, Newcaetle-npan-Tyne (8) Dec. 1901 

Burr, Percy B., 16, St. Oeorge'B Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Dec, 1900 



Chicken, Qcorge Perey, 17, Kenilworth Boail, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne 

Coaker, William F,, 19, Lovaine Crescent, Newcastle- npon-Tyne 

Cothay, Frank H., 38, The Aveoue, Sunderland 

CouUon, Bichard H. A.. 12, Kast View, South ShietdB 

Crookaton, David D., 3B. P'ountayne Road, Stoke Newington, 
Ijondon ... ... _ 

Crow, William George, 45, Rye Hill, Ncwcaatle-ui>on-Tyne 

Cniickshank, Andrew, Park Road, Hebburn-on-Tyne 

Currie, Hugh B., 48, Jesmond Roaii, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 

Curry. Alljert, 68, Itycbill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 

Cuttle, Hetiry H., 93, Coataworth Road, Gateshead- on -Tyue 

D. 

Davison, Josopli P., lOT, Clumber Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne . 
Denton, Hugh K., 63, Osborne Road, Newcastle- a pon-Tyne 

Dewar, John, Tbe Green, Wall send -on -Tyne 

Dickinson, Thomas, 38, De Grey Street, Newcaatle-upon-Tyne . 
Ditworth-Harrison, D. B., IT, Granville Street, Gaieshead-on- 



Tyne 



(E) Dec. 1898 
(E) Nov. 1901 
(E) Keb. 1901 
(E) Apiil 1697 

(E) Nov. IS99 
(E) Not. 1900 
(E) Not. 1899 
(E) Not. 1897 
(C) Not. 1901 
(E) Jan. 1902 

(8) Oct. 1S98 
(E) Dec. 1901 
(E) Nov. 1899 
(E) Not. 1901 




■LSCTBD. 

Fletcher, Arthur C, 58, Hulse Avenue, Tynemouth (E) Mar. 1900 

ForBter, Charles M., Oakfield, Rytoii-on-Tyne (E) Oct. 1898 

Fortune, Thomas C, 76, Falmouth Road, Heaton, Newcastle-upon- 

j.yne. •• .«• •■• ... ... ... ... ... ,,, C^^ Jan. l«K/^ 

a. 

Gibbons, Norman B., 15, East Parade, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Feb. 1901 
Gibbs, Alfred Percy, 8, Huntington Place, Tynemouth, North- 
umberland (E) Nov. 1901 

Glahome, John W., 43, North Terrace, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov. 1899 

Gray, Robert Bertram, 15, Victoria Villas, W., Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Oct. 1900 
Green, Fred. Wm., 4, Belle Grove Place, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Jan. 1902 
Grey, Alfred Wm., 40, Devonshire Place, Jesmond, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

H. 

Haig, William G., 1, Humbledon View, Sunderland (S) May 1899 

Harvey, Albert G., 17, Beauly Crescent, Tynemouth (E) Nov. 1901 

Heck, John S., 10, Bristol Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Dec. 1899 

Heck, William D., 10, Bristol Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Jan. 1902 
Hedley, Ralph, Jun., 19, Belle Grove Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E E) Dec. 1899 

Holmes, Stephen, 15, Park Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne (8) Dec. 1901 

Houston, Cambell, 39, Melville Street, Pollockshields, Glasgow ... (E) Nov. 1901 

Hudson, William H., 79, Westmorland Roa«l, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Hutchinson, Wm. G., Rock Lodge, Roker, Sunderland (S) May 1899 

J. 

James, Matthew C, Jun., 6, Park Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne ... (E E) May 1899 

James, Wm. E., 6, Park Terrace, Gkiteshead-on-Tyne (S) May 1899 

Jennings, Edward C, 4, The Crescent, Gateshead-on-Tyne ... (E) Nov. 1901 

Jobling, Vivian, Whickham, Swalwell, R.S.0 (E) Oct. 1898 

Joicey, Edward James, 30, Bewick Road, Gateshead (E) April 1900 

K. 

Knight, Robt. C, Blswick Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (S) Nov. 1901 

L. 

Leitch, George A., 4, Akenside Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Jan. 1902 
Lindsay, James D., Femville, Gosforth, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E E) Jan. 1897 

Little, Alvin, 39, Leazes Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (E) Mar. 1901 

Lowrison, Wm. R., Drawing Office, Elswick Shipyard, Newcastle- 

upon-l^ne (S) Nov. 1901 

Luhrs, H., 16, Labnmnm Avenue, Wallsend-on-Tyne (E) Nov, 1899 

M. 

Milne, George Murray, 18, Eirton Park Terrace, Preston Road, 

North Shields (S) Feb. 1898 

Morris, David, Haingwood Terrace, Bill Quay-upon-Tyne (8) Dec. 1900 

Madd, Pcrcival Arthur, GreencliflEe, Hartlepool (8) Oct. 1900 

Murray, Athole J., Hassendean, Beech Grove, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne ... ... ... ••• •■• ••• ••• ••• (8) Nov. 1897 



s. 

Neill, Jobn, IE, Salem Hill South, SuDtlerUnd 

SeBfield,AlberlC 

NesfieW, Arthur ,'.,' 

Nlchol, Robert, 9, Abbey Street, Gnteshead-on-Tyne 
NicholB, Ocoi^e Henry, 30, Deaiuark Streetj Oateshenil- 
Nizon, John Robert, i, Bath Terrace, Blyth 



(E) Kov. 1901 

(E) Not. 1898 

(E) Not. 1898 

(E) Feb. 1902 

(E) Oct. 1900 

(E) Feb. 1898 



Owen, Charles E. A., The White UouHe, Old Bcnwcll, Kewcaetle- 
upon-Tyne 



Posgate, James Stephen, Durham House, Windmill Street, QraveB- 

en(l,Kent (E) Not. 18U5 

PnttB, Arthur W„ 9, Beacoiisauld Terrace, Ga(«ihead-oii-Tytie .. (E) Oct. 1098 

PottB, Joseph, H, Horelaod Street, West Hartlepool (E) Feb. 1898 

Pott«, Herbert Joseph, 42, OroiTeDor I'lace, Jesmond, Nawcsstle- 

upoa-TTne (C) Dec. 1899 

Pott«, John N., 10, Ashburton Creaceut, Oosforth, Newcasile-upon- 

Tyne (E) Dec. 1900 

Pringle, R. A., 16, Regent Terrace, Newcaatle-upon-Tyne (E E) Nov. 1901 



B. 
RichanlEon. Norman bhephard, IB, Wentworth Terrace. New- 

castle-upoD-Tyne 

EoblnaoD, Frank Bertie. 10, Dickinson Crescent, Oosforth, New. 

cattle'Upon-Iyne 

fiobeon, Geo., Jan., 9, WeHingtou Terrace, South Shields 

BobeoD, Oeoigt, 32, Pollard Street, Sontli Sliields 



(E) Har. 1.699 
(E) Mar. 1899 
(G) Not. 1901 




xlvii 
T. 

SLBOnCD. 

Tate, Frank W (E) Nov. 1898 

Taylor, Arthur T., 26, Rye Hill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (8) Dec. 1900 

Taylor, John Thomas Lloyd, Dock Engineer's Office, Middleton 

Road, West Hartlepool (S) Oct. 1900 

Temperley, Nicholas R., 4, Carlton Terrace, Low Fell, Gateshead 

on-TyDe (E E) Dec. 1898 

Thew, Charlton, 80, Osborne Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ... (E) Dec. 1899 

ThompsoD, John, 16, Victoria Road, Middlesbrough (S) Nov. 1899 

Thornton, B. Fielding, 5, Catherine Terrace, Gateshead-on-Tyne (E) Dec. 1900 
Tulip, Wilfred, Whinney Hill, Choppington. Morpeth, Northumber. 

land ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (E) Mar. 1902 

W. 

Waddingham, W. H., Fembank, Port Glasgow (E) Nov. 1897 

Wardroper, Arthur K., Walker Vicarage, Walker.on-T»ne ... (E) Dec. 1901 

Watson, John G. B., 5, Nesham Street, Newcastle-on-Tyne ... (S) Jan. 1902 

Watson, Kenneth, 3, Rosella Place, North Shields (E) Mar. 1899 

Weymouth, Norman, 32, Roxburgh Place, Heatoii, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne (E) Nov. 1901 

Whyte, Charles, 10, Bellevue Crescent, Tyne Dock, South Shields (E) Nov. 1901 
Wilson, William, 117. Bede Bum Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne ... (E) Feb. 1902 
Winstanley, P. G., 6, Joannah Street, Newcastle Road, Sunder- 
land ... \... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (S) Oct. 1898 

Wood, Lionel, 4, Simonside Terrace. Heaton, Newcastle-upon- 

-l-yilc... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ^K tmj ^OV. LOa 4 

Woods, Arthur, 45, Forsyth Road, Jesmond, Newcastle (E) Nov. 1900 

Wotherspoon, William L. (E) Jan. 1898 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION 



OP 



ENGINEERS AND SHIPBUILDERS 



ElOHTEENTH SESSION, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



The Eighteenth Session of the Institution wa& opened on the 
evening of Friday, October 25, 1901, with a conversazione and ball 
at the invitation of the President (Henry Withy, Esq., J.P.)j and 
Mrs. Withy, in the Assembly Rooms, Westgate Road, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne, and was attended by a large assemblage of ladies and 
gentlemen* 



FIRST GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
LECTURE HALL OF THE LITERARY AND PHILOSOPHICAL 
SOCIETY, NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, ON FRIDAY EVENING 
NOVEMBER 15th, 1901. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J. P., Pbbsidbnt, in the Chaib. 



The Sechetaey read the minutes of the Closing Business Meet- 
ing of the Seventeenth Session, held in Newcastle-upon-Tyne on 
the 17th May, 1901, which were approved by the members pre- 
sent and signed by the President. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the President 
appointed Messrs. W. G. Spence and R. H. Muir to examine the 
voting papers, and the following gentlemen were declared 
elected: — 

TOi,. ZTm.— 19Q9. ^ 



i PBOOKKDIHOB. 

HBUBBRS, 
Baher, S&muel Ernest, iDapecting Eugineei, 9, MontniBS Arcane, Kedland, 

Bristol. 
Bladou, Ju. Backlef, Engineer DiangbUman, 12, Haielock Street, Newcutle- 

npon-Tyne. 
Clarke. John Harwood, Marine Bngineer, c/o Heaara. Sir Jas. Laing t Sons, 

Deptford Yard, Sunderland. 
CooksoQ, William D., Kngineer, 3, Bt. Bdmnnd'a Road, Qateshead.on-T7ne. 
Dalrymple, AleXHoder, Superintendent, Engineer, 19, Tower Bnildings, Wkter 

Street, LirerpooL 
Dickie, James, Shipbuilder, 36, Brinkbnm Terrace, South ShieldB. 
Forrest, Frank, Electrical Engineer. 2, Bath Terrace, Tynemonth. 
Fowler, Jaa. Speir, Engineer, li, Renfrew Road, Wallaend-on-Tjne. 
Haj, John, Superintendent Engineer, 91, Gower Street, London, W.C. 
Hayhnwt, James, Civil Engineer, 18, Kenilworth Boad, Sewcaatle-npoii-Tyne. 
Jack, Fred Barrie, Engineer, c/o Messrs. Wotthington Pumping Engine Co. 

32, Qrainger Street West, Newcastte-npon-Tjue. 
Laidler, William, Engineer, c/o Messrs. The Upper Tyne Engineering Co. 

Skinnerbnm Boad, Elswick, Hewcastle-upon-Tjue. 
Lindberg, George, Navsl Architect and Civil Engineer, Studagarden 8 

Stockholm. 
Lumley, Oascoigne, Superintendent Engineer, i, Claremont Place, Gst«Bhead- 

on-Tyne. 
Nellist, George, Superintendent Engineer, 2, Bnrdon Road, Sunderland, 
Redpath, Dand, Engineer, S9, Claremont Road. Seatorth, Lirerpool. 
Rhodes, Joseph Henry, Engineer, Stonyroyd, Osbridge Lane, Stockton-on-Tees. 
Richardson, John Lyth, Superintendent Engineer, Deddington Chambers, Boll. 
Rodgereon, Wm. John, Engineer, 33, Brunswick Street, Oateahead-on-Tyne. 
Thackrah, John, Engineer, 43, Afihleigb Grove, West Jeamond, NewcasUe^npon- 

Tjne. 
Tbompaon, Joseph Andrew, Shipbuilder, Langham Tower, Sunderland. 
Thompson, Robert Norman, Sbipbnilder, Langbam Tower, Sunderland. 
Todd, William Surtees, Naial Architect, 1, Akenside Hill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Widdowfield, John H,, Engineer, 3, BeacoDsfleld Terrace, Gateahead-on-Tyne. 
Wilson, B-Sc, Alfred Carnitbera, Engineer, 7, North View, Jarrow-on-Tyne. 
Wilaon, Edmund, Engineer, Leazes Park, Newpastle-upon-Tyno. 
Wooileson, Wm. A., Eugioeer, 174, Prince Consort Road, OateBbead-on-Tyne. 




PBOOEEDINOS. 3' 

Henzell.'Chas. Wright, Average Adjuster, Royal Insurance fiuildings, Newcasile 
upon-Tyne. 

Jennings, Albert Edward, Merchant, 4, The Crescent, Gateshead-on-Tyne. 

Kendall, Alfred H., Merchant, c/o Messrs. Northern Trading Co., Ltd., East 
Boldon, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Moss, J. Frank, Jr., Steel Manufacturer, 48, Clifford Road. Sharow, Sheffield. 

Naismith, John, Accountant, Neptune Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Purvis, Alexander, Manufacturer, Albany Chambers, King Street, South Shields. 

Swinney, Robt. Nesbit, Accountant, Messrs. Swinney Bros., Ltd., Morpeth, 
Northumberland. 

Thompson, John S., Bank Manager, 2, Claremont Terrace, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Wilson, James, Accountant, 61, Falmouth Road, Heaton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Wardle, James, Manufacturer, 17, Balmoral Terrace, Qosforlh, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne. 

Young, John Barrow, Optician, 46, Dean Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

GRADUATES. 

Allan, Percy F., Apprentice Engineer, Wansbeck Street, Jarrow-on-Tyne. 

Atkinson, Harry, Apprentice Engineer, 137. Park Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Barr, Robert, Engineering Draughtsman, 40, Oxford Street, Barrow-on-Furness. 

Booth, John M. M., Apprentice Engineer, Sherburn House, Durham. 

Coaker, William F., Engineer, 19, Lovaine Crescent, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Curry, Albert, Apprentice Engineer, 68, Ryehill, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Dickinson, Thos., Apprentice Draughtsman, 38, De Grey Street, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne. 

Durrani, Aubrey Percy, Apprentice Engineer, 86, Heaton Park Road, 
Newcastle-u pon-Ty ne. 

Oibbs, Alfred Percy, Apprentice Engineer, 6, Percy Avenue, Cullcrcoats, 
N orthumberland. 

Grey, Alfred Wm., Apprentice Engineer, 40, Devonshire Place, Jesmond, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Harvey, Albert G.. Apprentice Draughtsman, 17, Beauly Crescent, Tynemouth. 

Houston, Cambell, Draughtsman, c/o Miss Edwards, 74, Warrington Road, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. * 

Hudson, William H., Engineering Draughtsman, 79, Westmorland Road, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Jennings, Edward C, Apprentice Engineer, 4, The Crescent, Gateshead-on-Tyne. 

Knight, Robt. C, Shipbuilder, Elswick Shipyard, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Lowrison, Wm. R., Shipbuilder, Drawing Office, Elswick Shipyard, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne. 

Neill, John, Apprentice Engineer, 15, Salem Hill South, Sunderland. 

Pringle, R. A., Blectrical Engineer, Front Street West, Stanley. 

Robson» George, Engineer Draughtsman, 32, Pollard street. South Shields. 

Sanders, Harold W., Engineer Draughtsman, 144, Malcolm Street, Heaton, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Sinclair, Wm. R., Ship Draughtsman, 1, Stratford Villas, Heaton, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne. 

Stirzaker, Stanley C, Apprentice Engineer, 16, Grosvenor Place, Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne. 

Waymouth, Norman, Apprentice Engineer, 57, Meldon Terrace, Heaton, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Whyte, Charles, Engineer Draughtsman, 10, Bellevue Crescent, Tyne Dock, 
South Shields. 



4 PBOOZHDIKGP. 

yOTE OF THANKS TO THE PRESIDENT 
AND MRS. WITHY. 
Mr. J. R. FoTHEEGiLL (Vice-President) — The next business 
on the [^Dda is one I am sure will appeal to your feelings and 
to which you will most heartily respond. I have the honour to 
propose on your behalf as well as my own a hearly vote at thanks 
to the President and Mrs. Withy for the conversazione they gave 
and which was so thoroughly enjoyed. Those members who were 
not able to be present missed a great treat. The hospitalify of 
Mr. and Mrs. Withy, and the graciousness with which they 
received us all can only be expressed by our highest apprecia- 
tion, for which I now propose our most cordial thanks. 

Mr. R. H. MtriR — I have very much pleasure in seconding the 
proposal made by Mr. Fothergill, that our heartiest thanks be 
given to Mr. and Mrs. Withy. 

The vote was carried by acclamation. 

Mr. FoTHEEGiLL {to the President) — -Sir, on behalf of the 
members of the Institution, I tender to you and Mrs. Withy our 
thanks and appreciation for the most gracious and hospitable way 
in which you entertained us at the opening of the present Session. 

The Peesident — Mr. Fothergill, Mr. Muir, and gentlemen, I 
desire to thank you very much for the kind way in which you 
have spoken of the conversazione. All I can say is, I hope you 
enjoyed it as well as we did. It was an exceedingly pleasant 
evRning. It was the first conversazione I have attended, but ■ 




COdNOlL^S BBPORt. 



COUNCIL EEPORT. 

(Seventeenth Session, 1900-1901.) 



The Council has pleasure in stating that the financial position 
of the Institution is still satisfactory. 

The Seventeenth Session of the Institution was opened on 
Saturday, October 27th, 1900, on which occasion the membere 
were invited to visit the engineering works of Messrs. The Walls- 
end Slipway and Engineering Co., and the shipbuilding yards of 
Messrs. G. S. Swan & Hunter, both situated on the river Tyne. 
Tea was provided for the members on their return to Newcastle- 
upon-Tyne by the following Tyneside Past-Presidents : — Mr. 
William Boyd, Mr. Wigham Richardson, Col. Henry F. Swan, 
and Sir Benjamin C. Browne. 

At the meeting held in the evening the President, Mr. Henry 
Withy, delivered his inaugural address. 

During the session the following papers were read and dis- 
cussed : — 

"On the Stress produced in a Connecting Rod by its Motion." By Mr. 

C. H. Innes, M.A. 
" The Ventilating and Heating of Ships by a Forced Circulation of Warm 

Air." By Mr. F. W. Jennings. 
*' On some attempts to increase the Efficiency of Marine Boilers." By Mr. 

G. M. Brown. 
** Some Remarks on the Commercial Organisation of Shipyards." By Mr. 

Walter Scott. 
«* Water Tube Boilers." By Mr. Edwin Griffith. 
** A Simple Method of Preventing the Corrosion of Tail Shafts." By Mr. 

James M. Thornton. 

The engineering gold medal for the sixteenth session was pre- 
sented to Prof. R. L. Weighton, M.A., for his paper on " The 
Receiver Drop in Multiple Expansion Engines." 

The annual dinner was held in Newcastle-upon-Tyne on 
Thursday, December 18th, 1900, and was well attended by 
members and friends. 



6 COUNCIL 8 KBPORT. 

The great loss which the nation sustained by the death of our 
late beloved Sovereign Queen A'ictoria waa deeply felt by the 
members of the Institution and expressed in a dutiful and loyal 
address of condolence forwarded to His Majesty the King. 

The term of four years for which representatives for the North 
East Coast District were elected to serve on the Consultative Com- 
mittee to the Board of Trade having expired, and Mr. John Price 
and Col. H. F, Swan having expressed their desire to withdraw 
from the representation, the following gentlemen having been 
nominated by the Shipbuilders Employers' Association and the 
North East Coast Engineering Trades Employers' Association to 
serve on the Committee were duly elected by this Institution, viz. : 

Shiplniitdera:—M.r, Arthur Coote and Mr. G. Jones. 
Engitieers :'~yii. J. H. Irwin and Mr. D. E. Morison. 

Prof. R. L. Weighton, M.A., and Mr. Q. E. Macarthy were 
i-e-elected to represent the Institution on the Sub-Committee of 
the Northumberland County Council Technical Education Com- 
mittee. 

On the receipt of the new regulations of the Board of Trade 
relating to the examination of Engineers in the Mercantile Marine 
a sub-committee was appointed by the Council to consider them 
and report to the Council. A copy of the following report was 
forwarded to the Marine Department of the Board of Trade : — 

"The Council of the North-Eaat Coftat JnBtitution ot Engineers and 
Shipbuilders, by the request of the Board of Trade, have tram time to time 
eubmitled their opinion relative to regulations for the examination of 
Marine Engineers, and having recently received from the Biard of Trade 
a. copy of the revised regulations, now iaaued, this Committee recommends 
the Council to draw the Board of Trade's attention to the apparently 




COUKCIL^S REPORT. 7 

If the Board of Trade consider it, as per Kegulation 22 (a), absolutely 
necessary that three years either as an apprentice or journeyman out of the 
four years stipulated must be passed in the fitting or erecting shop, or in 
both, then the extra year or any additional time passed, particularly in any 
of the departments manufacturinji; Auxiliary Machinery mentioned in 23 (i) 
should equally count without any such penalty as referred to in Regulations 
28 and 29. 

(Signed on behalf of the Sub-Committee), 

J. R. FOTHERGILL. 

The following reply was received from the Board of Trade : — 

Marine Department, 
7, Whitehall Gardens, London, S.W., 
21st June, 1901. 
Sib, 

I am directed by the Hoard of Trade to thank you for your letter of 
the 8th itist. calling attention to paragraphs 28 and 29 of the new Regulations 
relating to the Elxamination of Engineers, providing that candidates whose work- 
shop service is not performed in fitting and erecting shops where steam engines 
are made and repaired shall produce evidence of additional engine-room service. 

The Board of Trade desire me to state, in reply, that, as at present advised, 
they do not consider that a case is made out for any further alterations of the 
Regulations referred to, but the points to which their attention is called shall be 

noted. 

I am, Sir, 

Your obedient servant, 

(Signed) Walter J. Howell. 

Certain alterations have been made in the Rules relating to 
che awarding of the gold medals, which will be found in the new 
Bye-Laws. The chief alteration occurs in Rule 5 where it is 
stated that " Papers read by authors who have already received 
a gold medal shall not be eligible for a medal till after the expira- 
tion of six years from the date of the previous paper for which 
the medal was awarded.'' 

To meet the convenience of members the times for which the 
Reading Room and Library were opened have been considerably 
increased, but the Council regrets to find that the rooms are still 
very little used. 

Professor R. L. Weighton was nominated to represent this 
Institution at the International Engineering Congress held in 
Glasgow in the month of September last. 

Invitations were received from Messrs. Dorman Long & Co., 
and Messrs. Bell Brothers for the members of the Institution to 
visit the Britannia Works and the Clarence Works, Middles- 
brough. These were accepted by the President and Council. 



8 oouitaiL'B bEpokt. 

The viait took place on May 23, 1901, and was attended by about 
200 of the members. The visitors were most kindly and hospit- 
ably entertained by the above iirms and the inspection of the 
works proved moat interesting and instructive. 

The First Lord of the Admiralty having graciously expressed 
his willingness to receive a deputation of the Members of the 
House of Commons and representatives of the various Engineering 
Institutions of the Kingdom with reference to the present unsatis- 
factory condition of the Engineer Branch of H.M, Navy, the fol- 
lowing Memorandum was drawn up and submitted to Sir 
roitescue Flannery, M.P., and other members of the House of 
Commons. The deputation waited upon his Lordship on Tuesday, 
Ihe 16th day of July, 1901, at tbe offices of the Admiralty, Spring 
Q-ardens, London, W.C. This Institution on that occasion was 
represented by Mr. Henry Withy, President ; Mr, D, B. Morison, 
Vice-President ; and Mr. John Duckitt, Secretary. 

His Lordship in reply to the statements and suggestions made, 
said " All that you have said will be most carefully followed and 
considered by us." 

MEniOR:(!'DUM aiibmitted to Kir ForteBoue Flannerj, M.P., and the Mumbvrs 
of the Houae of ComraoiiB constituting tlie Deputation to the First Lord of the 
Admiralty, by the North Eoat Coaat Institution of Engineers aad Shipbuilders, 
Nawusstle-upon-Tyne, the Institute of Marine Engineers (London), and the 
Institute of Marine Engineers (South Wales Branch), with reference to the present 
unsatisfactory condition of the Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy. 

As the result of careful considerHtion uid full discussion of Ihe accom- 
panying papers by Mr. D. B. Morison, vice-president of the North Kast Coast 
Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, the above-Damcd Engineering 
Institutions deem it their duty to record and submit their opinion, that the 
present constitution and organisation of the Engineer Branch of the Royal 




(50UlSrCIL*6 REPORT. 9 

The Engineer Branch being a large and impertant factor in the war 
efficiency of the Royal Navy, it would appear that it should be adequately 
represented on the Board of Admiralty. 

In view of the technical nature of the issues involved in Courts Martial 
affecting the engineering personnel, such Courts should comprise a proportion 
of Engineer Officers. 

The existing system under which Junior Engineer Officers are appointed 
** in lieu of" Senior Officers, and are thus called upon to undertake the duties 
and responsibilities properly attaching to the higher rank, without receiving 
that rank and the corresponding rate of pay, is obviously unjust, and should 
be suppressed. 

The proportion of Engineer Officers of higher rank than Fleet Engineer is 
at present discouragingly small. We are also of opinion that some attempt 
should be made to render the Engineer Branch more attractive by a revision 
of the scales of pay and pension. 

In view of the rapid evolution which has taken place during recent years 
in engineering as applied to naval purposes, we are strongly of opinion that 
the whole question of the education and training of the engineering personnel 
should be thoroughly investigated. 

The total numbers of the trained personnel of the Engineer Branch at 
present fall so far short of the requirements of the Service that it is 
impossible to provide ships in commission with engine room complements 
which are adequate in numbers, skill, and experience. 

Some of the causes above referred to have so far discouraged candidates, 
that the number of entries into the Engineer Branch through the normal 
channel has decreased to a dangerous extent, and the Admiralty have had to 
resort to expedients to make good the deficiency which have lowered the 
standard of the candidates, and tended to undermine the efficiency of the 
Branch. 

The important duties of the Artificer ratings in modern war-ships can 

only be efficiently performed by thoroughly skilled and experienced mechanics, 

such as the existing conditions of service have failed to attract in the required 

numbers ; we, therefore, submit that increased inducements should be offered 

in respect of pay and accommodation. 

Signed— 

For the ( Henry Withy, President. 

North East Coast Institution of -j D. B. M orison, Vice-President. 
Engineers and Shipbuilders. ( John Duckitt, Secretary. 

T 4.-4. * t\J • ^ v ^ «««„ 1 John Corry, President. 
Institute ofMw-me Engineers, j j^^^^ Adamson, Hon. Secretary. 

For the ( SiB Thomas Morkl, President. 

Institute of Marine Engineers, ~| Sir John Gunn, Past-President. 
South Wales Branch. \ Thomas A. Reed. 

\^h Jvly, 1901. 

During the year the foUowing additions have been made to 
the roll of members : — Members, 73 ; Associates, 14 ; Graduates, 
28 ; and 8 Graduates have been passed into the Members section. 

The Council regrets having to record the loss by death of the 
following : — Hon. Member : Lord Armstrong. Members : James 
Allan, George Amison, Robert Barnard, George Clark (Vice- 



w 



(JOUMOIL'S HEPOBT. 



President), Sir Raylton Uixoa, Arthur Laing (Vice-President), 
George Noble, Kobert L. Potts, John. Renton, Magnus Sandison, 
John Spear, Joseph Wood. Associates : James Osbourne and 
Frederick Itobson. 

The death of Mr. M. Sandison is deeply felt. He joined the 
Institution shortly after its formation and from the very iirst took 
an active part in its afEairs. For a number of years he was a 
member of the Council and has also sat as a member of many of 
the Bub-eommitteee, 

The Institution has also lost by resignations and other causes : 
— 41 Members, 4 Associates and 16 Graduates. 

The total number of names now enrolled is as follows : — 

Honorary Mnmbera 

Life Members 

Memben 

Life AaaociateB 

AsBOciHtes ... 

Groduatea 



GttADUATE Section. 
During the twelfth session of the Graduate section eight meet- 
ings were held. The average attendance waa somewhat less than 
that of the previous year. 

At the opening meeting the Chairman (Mr. H. B. Donaldson) 
gave his address, the subject being, " The Construction of a Modem 
Cargo Steamer," and during the session the following papers were 
read and discussed : — 

"The Comparison between Euglisb and American Locomotive Practice." 
By Mr. H. J. Potta. 




C0tJNCIL*8 RfiPOET. 1 1 

The thanks of the Institution are due to the principals and 
officials of these establishments for the kindness and courtesy 
extended to the junior members. 

The following awards were presented to the authors of p«^pers 
read before this section during the eleventh session : — 

... ••• ••• ••• t • ' ••• 

Books, etc., to the value of £2 10s. to Mr. Talbot Duckitt for his paper on 

** Enclosed Electric Motors for Traction." 
Instruments, etc., to the value of £2 108. to Mr. J. S. Posgate for his paper 

on *'Ship Resistances." 
Books, etc., to the value of £2 10s.. to Mr. B. S. Varty for his paper on 

" The Transverse Stability of Ships." 

Mr. H. B. Donaldson has been re-elected Chairman and Mr. 
George Nelson Hon. Secretary of this section for the current year. 



PINiUtCtAL STATBUENT. 

NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF 

STATKMBNT or RECEIPTS iSD PAYMENTS 



To Balance from last Accooot— 


£ 


At Bank 








2fil Members at £2 2s £648 2 




S&lMemben „ £1 la. 5S1 14 




136 Associates ., £1 Is 142 16 




laBOradoatas „10s. 6d 65 12 6 









1076 

„ Association of Foremen Engineers and Draughtsmen — 

One jcar'a Subscription 

„ Subscriptions received in advance 

„ Arrears from Session 1899-1900— 

16 Members at £2 2s. £33 12 

29 Members „ £1 la 30 9 

5 Associates ,, £1 Is 6 6 

2 Graduates „ 10s. 6d 110 



„ Transacdons sold this Session 
„ Copies of Members' l^apers supplied 
„ Tjiie Improvement 
One Year's Interest 



1 2l8t June, 1901, an £605, nt 3^ 



—Medal Fund £274 

Oraduates' Award and Lite 

Members' Fund 331 



One Year's Interest 




FIKAirOIAL STATEMENT. 



18 



ENGINEERS AND SHIPBUILDERS. 

FOB Session ending 31st July, 1901. 



pasmentd. 












By TransactionR and Papers — 






£ s. 


d. 


£ a. d. 


Lithographing 


• ■ • 


• •• 


102 2 


3 




Printing and Binding 


• • • 


• • • 


209 6 


3 


311 8 6 


„ Stationery and Circulars 


• • • 


• • • 


106 16 


7 




„ Reporting 


• • • 


• ■ • 


26 2 


6 




yy Rents — 












Offices and Electric Light Fittings 


• • • 


• • • 


112 12 


9 




Lecture Rooms 


• • • 


■ • • 


6 14 







Telephone ... 


•• • 


• • • 


7 8 


8 


259 14 6 
30 7 


„ Rates, Gas, Electric Light, and Insurance... 


•• • 


• • • 






„ Salaries — 












Secretary, Salary 


• • • 


• • • 


340 







„ Commission 


• • • 


• • • 


70 15 11 




Assis uin bS ... ... ... ... ••* 


■ • • 


• • • 


25 7 







„ Postages, Stamps, Post Cards, Parcels, etc. 


• • • 


• • • 


115 12 


1 




„ Secretary's and Office Expenses, Coal, Cleaning, 


etc. 


• ■ ■ 


86 14 


6 




„ Painting and Decorating Rooms 


«• • 


• • • 


25 19 


4 




„ Measured Mile Posts — Rent 


• • • 


• • • 


6 6 







n Auditor's Fee ... ... ... ... ••• 


• • • 


■ • • 


5 5 







„ Lantern Expenses ••• 


• • • 


• •• 


3 





678 19 10 


„ Library Account — 










i^ 6 vv XmJOKo ••• ••• ••• ■•• ••• 


■ « • 


• • • 


14 8 


4 




Bookbinding 


• • • 


• • • 


4 7 


8 


18 16 


» Furniture Account — 










Alteration to Bookcase, etc. 


• •• 


• •• 


16 8 


3 




1 on raits ••• «•• ••• ••• ••• 


• •• 


• •• 


8 10 


6 


24 18 9 



Gold Medals* Fund- 
Gold Medal awarded 

n Graduates' Award Fund — 
Amounts awarded for Papers 

*i Balance at Bank 



••• 



5 10 

7 10 
449 5 



£1,786 3 2 



BALANCE HHBET. 



si S3 Is":! 
^ ." Hi 



II -st 

S«£ si 

?. "s * 5 S 



4 1 

1| 







PBOCEEDINOS. 15 

The President — I beg to move that the Report of the Council 
and the Financial Statement be adopted. 

Mr. J. R. FoTHERGiLL — As a member of the Finance Com- 
mittee I beg to second the resolution. I think the balance sheet 
will appeal to you as a very satisfactory one. We have, accord- 
ing to the balance sheet, £1,400 invested, but to this should be 
added £115. If you look at the receipts from the Graduates 
Award and Life Members' Fund, where we have £381, which 
includes about £115 from the Members' Life Fund, etc., this 
sum should be added to the amount invested, bringing it up tq 
£1,515 invested, from which we derive an income of £44 17s. per 
annum. We have £449 balance at the bank and £300 of this has 
also been invested, making a total investment of £1,815, exclusive 
of the Gold Medals and Graduates' Awards funds. I think 
you will agree that that is very satisfactory indeed. But, if you 
turn to the assets, you will there find we are in the unfortunate 
position to which I have referred on previous occasions. It is not 
by any means a pleasant duty to have to refer to it, but it is only 
right to bring into prominent notice the arrears of subscriptions. 
We have had to write off £21 10s. 6d. arrears irreclaimable and 
have carried forward £56 3s. 6d. amount of subscriptions for 
last year still unpaid, but which we have hopes of obtaining. It 
almost seems incredible that this should take place, but it does 
year after year. It is in my memory that last year more than this 
was written off. It is a sorry picture, but I suppose we shall 
have to continue to do it year by year. Otherwise, the balance is 
very satisfactory; indeed, you will see that the Committee has 
taken the proper precaution of writing down their office and 
library furniture, which I am sure you will agree is a proper and 
business thing to do. 

There being no further remarks, the President put the reports 
to the meeting, and they were accepted nem, con. 



The President delivered his opening remarks. 



Mr. J. W. LiTTLEDALK read a paper on " The Speed of 
Machine Shop Tools/' 



OPENING REMARKS. 17 



PIIESIJ)ENT'S OPENING REMARKS. 

The President — Gentlemen, I am told that it is usual, at the 
first meeting of the second Session, for the President to make a 
few opening remarks. In the first place I cannot but thank the 
members of Council and the members of the Institution for their 
very great courtesy, kindness and forbearance during the past 
Session. The support and assistance I have had from every one 
has rendered my duties exceedingly pleasant. I may say that I 
consider the repoii; which the Council has submitted to you 
to-night a very satisfactory one. I do not need to go into details, 
the main point is that the membership has increased by 54 in the 
year, and to judge from the long list of new members passed 
to-night, it looks as if the roll would go on increasing, as I 
sincerely hope it will. Naturally, in making a few remarks, I 
am indebted to the report of the Council, as we must necessarily 
refer to the same subjects. AVe are mourning the death of Her 
Most Gracious Majesty Queen Victoria. We sent to the King 
1 dutiful memorial at the proper time. The death-roll amongst 
our members is exceedingly heavy, including such distinguished 
names as Lord Armstrong, Sir Raylton Dixon, Mr. George Clark, 
Mr. Ai-thur Laing, and Mr. M. Sandison, the latter gentleman 
coming to a most untimely end in the ill-fated ** Cobra," Mr. 
Osbourne, Mr. Arnison and others. During the year, a most able 
scholar has been removed from our midst in the person of the Lord 
Bishop of Durham. The (^ouncil has refen*ed to the alterations 
in the rules regarding the gold medals. I may say the Council 
had a good deal of discussion over these matters, and it was felt 
that the alteration would give more encouragement to the younger 
Dtembers. Then the hours during which the reading room and 
library are open have been considerably extended, but, from what 
I can gather, members do not make as much use of the library as 
they might do, and I must urge all, and especially the younger 
members, to take full advantage of the books available for refer- 
ence, and of the other means of education, We have had two 
excursions — very pleasant excursions — to Sheffield and Middles- 

VOL. XVIIL— 1902, 2 



16 OPENmO BEUARKB. 

tro': we visited the works of Meaars. Walker & Hall, Messrs. 
TLoB. Firtli & Sons, Mesara. Seebohm & Dieckatahl of Sheffield ; 
and on the occasion of our visit to Middlesbro' we inspected 
the works of Messrs. Donnan, Lonf^ & Company, and Messrs. 
Deil Bros., and I am quite sure the best thanks of the 
Institution are tlue to the^e firms for their kindness. I 
believe our thanks have already been forwarded officially. We 
had an interesting paper from Mr. D. B. Morison, one of our 
vice-presidents, respecting the status and position of naval 
engineers. 1 may say that a deputation of members of Parlia- 
ment — aloiig with certain representatives of societies such as 
our own, with whom the Secretary, Mr. Morison and myself were 
present — waited upon the First Lord of the Admiralty and urged 
the petition of which you have already seen copies. We dO' not 
know that any good result has arisen; but we know that t^e 
Admiralty are making very full inquiries, and we have reason to 
hope that some good result will be achieved in the future. 
Although the shipbuilding business is at present fairly brisk, 
there are practically no inquiries in the market. This of course 
is accounted for by the very depressed condition of the freight 
market, and I am sorry to say that at present the outlook is not 
at all reassuring. In fact, I ani (juite convinced that we are on 
the brink of a very serious depression, and it behoves us all, 
engineers, shipbuilders and workmen to do all in our power to 
minimise the cost of pioduction, so that the works may be kept 
partially, if not wholly in operation. I am pleased to say that 
the relations between masters and men during the past 12 months 
have been of the most cordial description, there having been 
practically no strikes or disputes of any magnitude. The 




OPENINQ BEMABKS. 19 

makers. Messrs. R. Stephenson & Company's new shipyard at 
Hebburn is making satisfactory progress, the sheds being now 
complete, most of the machinery in place, and a temporary power- 
house erected. The Government is at present paying special 
attention to the coaling of war vessels and the storage of coal for 
this purpose. On the north-eaat coast we have recently had two 
great amalgamations ; firstly, that of the West Hartlepool Steel 
& Iron Company, the South Durham Steel & Iron Company and 
the Moor Iron Works, in the steel trade ; and in the engineering 
trade that of Messrs. T. Hichardson & Sons, Limited, Hartlepool ; 
Messrs. Sir Christopher Furness, Westgarth & Company, Limited, 
Middlesbrough ; and Messrs. W. Allan & Company, Limited, 
Sunderland. It is hoped that by more central manage- 
ment these concerns will be able to cheapen the cost, of pro- 
duction, with benefit to both employer and employed. It is to 
be regretted that the iron works at Tudhoe cannot be carried on 
profitably, but the position of the works is against economical 
production. Few of us expected they would be closed and I do 
not imagine that the directors of this Company will quietly sub- 
mit to the loss of their plate trade, but will try to put matters 
right, so that they may be enabled to continue the manufacture 
of boiler plates and add the manufacture of ship plates. Witli 
due economy, success should crown such an effort. 

I know you will be glad to get on with the other business of 
to-night's meeting, so I will content myself with thanking you 
for your very great kindness during the past Session. 



THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 21 



THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 



By J. W. E. LITTLEDALE. 



[Read before the Institution in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 

ON November 15th, 1901.] 



Of the many and vaided methods of increasing their output 
adopted in engineering works to keep pax^e with the times, not the 
least powerful one is the working of their machine shops to their 
utmost possible capacity. Of recent years the machine shop has 
become the most vital arteiy of all engineering projects, and it has 
struck me as peculiar how loth young engineers sometimes are 
to go through the machine departments when learning their trade, 
and when induced to start in a machine shop how amazingly soon 
they get tired of it. Also what little notice is taken of the practical 
working of machines in technical colleges as a rule. To get any- 
thing like a satisfactory interest on the capital expended in pay- 
ing machine-men and cost of running machines, a works must have 
a number of automatic machines worked by a single hand, a 
monopoly on the product, or the existing machinei-y worked up 
to its full bore. I intend in this short paper to take an average 
machine shop for general engineering work, and shall not touch 
on the wide field of special machinery, such as rolling mills, 
machines for rifling and boring large guns or small arms, and 
machines for the automatic manufacture of small parts of arma- 
ment, etc. 

Machine tool-makers of late have improved their manufactures 
to such an extent that the average works' manager views with 
feelings of apprehension the rows of out-of-date tools with which 
he has to try to compete against foreign competition ; he would 
like to clear out the most of them and replace with those of new 
design. That is an expensive amusement to indulge in to any 
large extent, but in such a case matters can be greatly improved 
(1) by putting in a few new first-class machine tools, specially 



2S THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

adapted for not only the work he has in hand, but ample in size 
and design to cope with future prospects of a larger class of work ; 
(2) by running his existing plant full capacity. On going 
through the works of modern machine tool-makers, one notices 
improvements which in some cases are startling revelations — in 
others are revelations, but not startling — and often make the 
visitor ask himself : Now why don't they do that on old-fashioned 
machines ? or a query to that effect. Some of the difficulties to 
be met with in endeavouring to adopt modifications of modem 
methods on existing plant are as follows : — 

(1) The want of stiffness in some of our old type machines to 

stand a high rate of speed and heavy feed. 

(2) The want of accommodation for fixing either travelling 

rests or steadying rests. 

(3) The great variation of ratios between the steps of the 

speed cones. 

(4) The slipping of the belt. 

(5) The cutting tool becoming blunt and useless. 

(6) The man who works the machine. 

Taking the diiHculty of the want of stiffness in a machine to do 
what you consider it should do, one cannot very well patch it up 
and make it stronger ; and scrapping it is as a rule advocated. But 
one can assist matters to a certain extent by reducing the feed, or 
depth of cut, and if it does not happen to be a planing machine 
with one speed, increase the speed of the machine considerably, 
which, by using a sample of specially treated tool steel, one can 
do with success. If it does happen to be a machine of the above 




THE SPEED OP MACHINE SHOP' TOOLS. 28 

we get an improvemeat ia the steadiness of the job ; also by seeing 
that the lubricant reaches that paiii of the cutting tool where it 
is required. You will notice, in such a case, that the tool that is 
inverted, and has the lubricant dripping on to its point, will last 
longer than the one on the side that has the water dropping on to 
the shaving of material and dribbling uselessly down the side. 
Dirty water dabbed on with a stick or rag is what an old-fashioned 
lathe gets as a rule, but the modem machine, with all its fine 
automatic gear and equipment shining, must have a high-class 
sample of oil and we make comparisons between them, the one 
with every possible chance to do its work well, the other to take 
its chance. This inefficient means of applying a lubricant to 
a cutting tool can be remedied in two ways ; one a good one, the 
other a makeshift. The good one is by having your shop fitted 
with a system of high-pressure mains, leading the mixture you 
think fit to use up to your machines, as one would a gas service, 
or a pump working on each machine. The makeshift is to turn 
up the spout of the can, and have the can fixed up a height and get 
a head ; one can get a fairly good jet of lubricant on to the proper 
part of the cutting tool in this way. We can adopt the plan of 
two cutting tools diametrically opposite on a chuck lathe of any 
size and this plan steadies the job. When we have to turn a 
job with a break in the cut, and of considerable length, one can- 
not with satisfaction adopt a high rate of speed in cutting or 
a heavy feed, unless we can provide an efficient means of keep- 
ing the work steady by a rest as near to the weakest point in the 
job as possible. 

The variation in the speed ratios on the cones very often gives 
trouble. I have often spoken to a man for running his machine 
too slow, and the excuse was that the next speed was too fast ; and 
usually it was, owing to the immense difference in the ratios of the 
speeds. With, for instance, the fastest speed on with the back 
gear in and changing to the slowest direct driving we get a 
tremendous difference of speed. This cannot veiy well be 
remedied with existing plant, if we are driving off the main shop 
shafting, which will be running at a speed most suitable for the 
majority of the machines driven by it ; but if, as mentioned before, 
you happen to have an electric motor of ample capacity to take 
the maximum load of the machine tool, and equipped with the 
necessary adjustable resistances, etc., we can often in this case 



24 



SHOP TOOLS. 



get an intermediate speed between the steps of the driving cone. 
It is a point I consider to he regarded with much favour in select- 
ing a new machine tool^ — its range of speeds. If machine tool- 
makers would keep the ratio between any two successive speeds not 
greater than 4^3 and they should he constant, we could get a 
fairly good succession of speeds, but we should require a large 
number of steps on the cones, to embrace a wide range of diameters 
of turning work. This latter case is not of much account, as with 
the exception of sparsely equipped works the sizes of jobs do not 
vary considerably for one machine. 

To work machine shop tools at a high productive rate, we often 
encounter the trouble of getting the belts to take a proper grip of 
the cones; this is due in some cases to the short drive available, 
the want of sufficient width, or the excessive amount of camber 
put on the conea: this in many cases reduces the 



gher the belt speed, 
strain is put on. 
i belt should not 



amount of adhesive portion of the belt. The hi^j 

the less likelihood of slipping when an excessiv 

It is stated on good authority that the stress in 

exceed 45 lbs. per inch of width. A lathe for ordinary shop 

work absorbs about one horse-power, so that its speed in feet per 

minute ought to he at least j";';","", ,. Thus a .3 inch bell, when 

on the countershaft pulley, runs at not less than 250 feet per 

minute. 

The difficulty of the cutting tool becoming blunt : the point 
wears oti', got** gla^ted or softened by excessive heating, and will 
not cut. Vk'e can help the lasting qualities of the tools in some 
e.\tent, by attending to the matter of lubrication afore-mentioned, 
even when turning cast iron, although that is not a general 
practice, I have found it useful. Also by having the tools supplied 




THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 



25 



The following table and sketch give an example of a reliable 
machine cutting tool designed to stand a high rate of cutting speed 
with heavy feed, and has been adopted to attain as nearly as 
possible these ends ; the angle for Y should be such as to give a 
clean cut and afford the least resistance to the rotating job ; the 
angle of clearance or X should be as small as possible, to assist in 
keeping up the strength of the point of the cutting tool. In 
practice, I have usually made the angle Z less acute than is 
advised by writers on this subject. The angle should be the 
same as X, and kept small. 



] 


For Cast Ikon. 


Angle of X 
., Y 

,. z 

„ 


B • • 


3 degrees. 
... 70 „ 

... lO ) ) 

3 ,, 


FoK Steel, 


Wrought. 


Angle of X 

„ Y 

„ z 

„ 


• • • 

• • • 

• ■ ■ 

• • • 


3 <legrees. 
... 60 „ 
20 „ 




For Brass. 


Angle of X 

„ z 

M 


• • • 


3 degrees. 
... 80 „ 
... 15 „ 

3 „ 


Fob 


. Wrou< 


;ht Iron. 


Angle of X 
„ Y 

„ z 

„ 


• • • 

• • 


3 degrees. 
... 56 ,, 
... 20 „ 

3 ,, 



ta 




.t> 



To get a good result with boring for lathe work tools great 
attention should be paid to Iheir shape, for, as a rule, the tool has 
to project so far from the rest that a badly-formetl tool will give 
considerable amount of trouble in a long job ; and the hole or 
cylinder will be tapered. It is obvious that if the hole to be bored 
out is a long one, and the material hard, we cannot maintain a 
heavy cut, or high speed without loosing the cutting edge of the 
tool and doing bad work. If we can get in a stout and rigid tool 
bar, keeping tlie cutting tool as short as possible, and use a high- 
quality steel, we shall f^ei far better results. In the cas3, how- 
ever, of a boring tool, the distance of the cutting edge from the 



26 THE SPEED OP MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

tool bar reel renders the slightest yariatioa in the efficiency of 
the cutting edge enough to mateiialty affect the work. We cau 
see this if we bore out a hole half of its length, and then, merely 
pressing on the body of the tool or tool hohler with the fingers, this 
ia Bufhcient to cause a dift'erenee in the diameter of the hole. On 
I'eferring to the following sketohes, I give a few instances of the 
material differences in the shape of a tool and its efficiency to do 
good work at a reasonable speed. 





THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 



27 




Wrought Iron. 




The pressure on the cutting edge acts in two directions ; one 
vertical the other lateral. The downward pressure is always 
there and cannot be altered with the shape of the tool, but the 
lateral pressure varies according to the direction of the plane of 
the cutting edge of the tool to the direction in which the tool 
travels ; the pressure in the above, indicated by arrows, being at 
a right angle to the plane of the cutting edge. A would leave the 
cut as it became blunt, or the length would cause it to spring ; B 
would not spring away or in to the cut, but would require more 
pressure to keep it cutting ; whilst C would run right in. I have 
written over these tools the metals that they would work best in. 

If when working with milling cutters we encounter a tough 
piece of metal, or one with a chilled skin, we can help the cutting 
tool to maintain its sharpness, by feeding the metal to the milling 
cutter so that the teeth meet and cut underneath the skin, and not 
down on to the top of it, which would in such a case take the edges 
off the cutter very soon. 

To arrive at the crux of machine shop success, i.e., that of 
removing the largest amount of superfluous metal, and reaching 
accurately a given dimension in the shortest possible time — if our 
machines are average good ones and we can obtain acceleration of 
our driving speed — one must have a good sample of steel that will 
stand a high rate of speed and heavy feeds and cuts. The proper 
speed at which to run a machine is the highest it will stand with- 



28 



THE SPEED OF UACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 



out sprin^ug the job, or causing the belt to slip badly, or even 
break. 

The following tables give speeds of machine tools in general 
piacticix, which I have uaed with good results, using the ordinary 
steel and mushet for the highest speeds : — - 







TABI.K 


OF Clttiko SPBEDS.-FOE Stbbi. 














IbHibini Out 


nnlddBi Cut. 


























Soma Id t«l 




Smdln 












[«r inlDule. 


(wItDalllniib. 


IWDiln 


E& feedloolllQClL 






I in. and leu 




20 


25 


20 


30 






1 in. to 2 in. 




18 


25 


18 


30 






2 in. to 3 in. 




18 


26 


15 


30 






3 in. to S in. 




15 


20 


IS 


30 










For Wkod 


UHT Iron. 










1 in. and lees 




35 


25 


38 




30 






1 ui. to 2 in. 




25 


20 


30 




30 






2 in. to 4 in. 




25 


20 


25 




25 






e in. to 12 in. 




20 


15 


23 




20 






12 in. to 20 in. 




18 


12 


18 




16 










For Ca 


IT laoH. 










1 in. and leu 




3S 


•20 


38 




20 






1 in. to 2 in. 




.^5 


20 


35 




16 






2 in. to * in. 




30 


20 


30 




10 






4 in. to e in. 




25 


15 


25 




8 






6 in. to 12 in. 




20 


14 


20 




6 






12 in. to 20 ill. 




20 


10 


20 




4 










KuH I 


KAiiS, 










I in. and leu 




120 


120 


25 






1 in. to 2 in. 




100 




100 


25 






2 in. to 4 in. 




80 


2.1 


100 


■-•5 




^M 



THE SPEED OP MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 29 

worked out curves for feeds and speeds and there is nothing like 
a good curve to place before anyone, to grasp a subject quickly. 
These cui-ves are in most cases taken out in inches. 

The possibilities of a high rate of feed and speed with strong 
machines of a modern type, and specially treated steel tools were 
clearly demonstrated at the Paris Exhibition ; and the com- 
pany that gave the best show of high-speed cutting was the 
Bethlehem Steel Company. There is a paragraph in Engineering 
of August 17th, 1900, which states: "The American technical 
journals report that some remarkable results have recently been 
obtained in increasing the endurance of cutting tools, by a process 
of treatment recently developed in the Bethlehem Steel Company 
by Mr. F. H. Taylor and Mr. F. Maunsell White. The process 
is applicable to a number of self -hardening steels, but the best 
results are got with a particular alloy. This alloy, after subjec- 
tion to the sp^ecial process, retains its hardness even at a red heat, 
and in fact the tool is worked so hard that the chips turn blue as 
they leave the tool. The process is applied after the tool is ground 
to form, and the hardness is not superficial but penetrates to the 
centre of the bar to 4 inches square. The alloy used forges much 
easier than the ordinary self -hardening steels, and can be annealed 
so as to be machined into milling cutters or twist drills. In a 
demonstration at the works of the Bethlehem Steel Company a 
tool treated by this special process was used to take a cut 3-16ths of 
an inch with a feed of 1-lGth of an inch, at the rate of 150 feet 
per minute ; the material operated on being '010 carbon steel ; the 
experiment lasted some minutes and the point of the tool became 
red hot, but was found to be uninjured at the end of the cut. A 
tool of mushet steel, subjected to the same trial, lasted 5 seconds. 
In another experiment, hard cast iron was cut at the rate of 150 
feet per minute with the specially treated tool steel ; the experi- 
ment lasted 16 minutes. Mushet steel failed in 10 seconds.'' 

The above is a great accomplishment in the way of getting tool 
steel to withstand the high speed cutting, but the high price of 
such steel would be a drawback against its adoption to a large 
extent, unless one used tool bars and holders, and reduced the 
quantity as low as possible. 

The following are the results of some of my trials with English 
manufacture, and they compare favourably with the American 
experiments conducted on powerful modem machinery': — 



I OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 





,....„ 






























""""•■ 




























37 






10 








41 


-,\ 


ft 


6 


Tool to Grind 






29 






9 






7 


fi2 






B 




CMtlron 


ISI 


3a 


<' 


i 


13 


" 




64 


i-i 


,'. 


17 





In all the above trials the tool was as good at the finish of the 
operation as at the start, with the exception of the second teat. 
In this instance the tool had to contend with a very tough shaft, 
and partly chilled skin, the diameter also varying a good deal; 
the tool was working well within its powers. 

















NUcrl*]. 




































^ 








7t'i 


37 


* 


TTT 




Lathe stopped— 
Tool to grind 




1,\ 


37 


i 


iV 




Good 






M 












6! 


35 


.'. 


I'll 


4 


Lathe Btopped— 
Tool to griad 


















\ » 


32 


i 




H 


Lathe stopped— 
Tool to grind 








i 


'■" 


e 





We were handicapped in all the above trials ior want of power, 
the machine pulling up as soon as a heavy cut was put on; tool 




THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 81 

This tool was not adapted for high-speed cutting, but is as good 
as ordinary tool steel on a slow motion. As long as the speed was 
kept low, some fairly heavy cuts could be taken, but as soon as the 
speed was raised the edge of the tool went. 

I have noticed the same thing in drilling a hole in a grindstone 
with a high speed and small feed ; the tool lasted no time, but with 
a very heavy feed and a slow speed the drill worked well. 

The whole of the above trials were conducted under unfavour- 
able conditions to the feample, and we were fully convinced that 
of the three samples, A could do very much more than we had the 
means convenient to put it to. 

Taking the speeds at which a drill can be run, I had a few rather 
peculiar examples shown to me of the erratic efficiency of one 
sample of tool. I was using a twist drill in a pneumatic drilling 
machine, when owing to the circulating water being cut off I 
could not work the air compressor and had to put the job on to a 
radial drilling machine, with the same tool, less feed, and a 
regular automatic one at that; the tool did not stand the wear 
in the tough, material in hand as well as it did with an erratic 
hand feed and higher speed. There were two conditions under 
which this work was done. On the radial drilling machine the 
drill was working vertically, on the pneumatic driller, horizon- 
tally, and the cuttings seemed to clear themselves quicker. 

Peripheral speed of drills in general practice is about that 
given in the annexed Table : — 

Brass 25 feet — 40 feet per minute. 

Wrought Iron 20 ,, —25 ,, „ „ 

Cast Iron ... 15 ,, — 17 ,, ,» „ 

oueei ..• •.• 14,, '~~£\j ,, ,, }} 

Feeds — up to \ inch 200 revolutions to 1 inch feed. 

\ inch to \\ inches 150 ,, ,, 1 

above 1| inches 100 ,, ,, 1 



»» u 



Take the obstacle to maximum production (sometimes so) of 
the man who is working the machine. If a man is on piece work, 
and his piece price not cut, when he produces his finished job 
considerably faster than he did on time rate, you will notice his 
machine will be well taxed to get through the work both in feed 
and speed, and he does not seem to display the remarkable anxiety 
for the safety of the machine as he did on time. Can you blame 
him? I have often been told it is only pure laziness, or a mis- 



Si THE SPEED OF UACHINE aHOP TOOLS. 

taken policy oa the pait of a machine man, not to drive his 
machine to its utmost capacity ; but he will find if he works his 
machine faster, that there are events likely to occur; and at a 
hi(fh rate of spewl these events caat veiy small shadows before, 
so his mind must be on the jtib, not partly on it and paiily on his 
own ]}rivate concerns. 

Where you cannot att'onl to pay the percentage demanded by 
piece rate, hut still wish to encoui'age and stimulate your men to 
make things go, the system of premium on correctly finished work 
within a time limit is a happy medium between the two extremes 
and where adopted works well if the time limits have been care- 
fully worked out and arrived at by a competent practical man who 
can tell pretty nearly to 5 minutes how long it should take t« set 
a job, and it is generally in the setting that much time is lost. If 
we want to get machines to produce ijuickly as well as accurately, 
there is no use in having the best, and running it under the moat 
favourable conditions, if it is to waste half an hour doing nothing. 
It would be like selecting a very fast locomotive and powerful to 
take an express through on a record time, and allow a fish train 
ahead to hold it up for l^) minuter. To prevent such a case occur- 
ring in machine shops give the man a liberal amount of unskilled 
help, and help him in a few ways, such as assisting him to obtain 
suitable packing, etc. It is often the dread of having to tackle 
the setting of a heavy job just at finishing time that causes some 
men to mark time for the last hour on a nice easy " self-act.'" 

To obtain a ma.\imum output and have your machine tools 
kept up to their work, it has been advocated to have speed curves 
and tables placed before a man's machine, in some suitable 
position, and the foreman instruct him as to the meaaing of it. 




THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 



88 



the work in the machine, and the machine's strength of gearing 
and stiffness to stand the strain. 

I referred to an ordinary planing machine as being some- 
times a very inferior machine for the size of it, the amount of 
power required to drive it working and idle or reversing. We 
can help to improve this state of matters in a planing machine 
that is only fitted with one head, by putting two or three tools into 
a patent tool holder, and with the one lateral traverse remove a lot 
of material, if the job is anything of a plain surface. 

Milling machines are tools that can be run to their utmost 
capacity and that as a rule is of high productive rate; they are 
made rigidly, and except in those types where in a very long job 
the table overhangs to such an extent as to spring it downwards, 
we can get an accurate result. There is great variation in practice 
regarding these types of machines ; their advantage over the slot- 
ting machines or shapers is that the tool is cutting all the time. 
They can be run at considerably higher speed than other tools, 
because each tooth is in contact for only a small portion of the 
revolution and has a chance of getting cooled by the water or what- 
ever lubricant is used for that purpose. The following speeds are 
the results of experience, but are by no means the maximum 
attainable with new and powerful machines. 





Roughing Cut. 


FiniBhing Cut. 




Feet per 
minute. 


ReTolutions 
per minute. 


Feet per 
minute. 


Revolutions 
per minute. 


Steel 

' Wrought Iron ... 

• 

Cast Iron 

; Brass 

1 


30 

40 

60 

100 


57 
r 

€6 

r 

114 

r 
190 

r 1 

1 


40 

55 

75 

120 


76 

r 
105 

r 
143 

r 
228 

r 



.** r " radius of cutter in inches. 

Although the milling machine has many advantages over 
the slotting machine, yet there are certain jobs that a milling 
machine cannot get through with so satisfactorily as the latter can, 
and in my opinion a slotting machine well worked is a very useful 
tool ; the milling cutter cannot negotiate corners as the slotter or 
shaper can. 



34 DiscuaaioiT — tbb bpeeu up maouihb shop tools. 

The Blotting machine and the shaper are, in my experience, 
machines to take a first-class specimen of tool steel and run with 
a good cut on and fairly heavy feed, but slowly, as at a high rate 
of speed moat reciprocating machinery soon shakes itself loose in 
pa-rts that we don't notice until some mischief is done. 

The system of feed from a stepped cone and a little strap is a 
poor one, and no matter how tight one gets that little belt, its size 
allows it to stretch by being taken oS and put on again, and it 
requires constant readjusting. This is superseded in modern 
machinery by gear feed, and in the lathe I took experiment A with 
the sample, I have always had to use change wheels and the lead- 
ing screw owing to the feeding gear being so fast on the slowest 
motion even. 

English practice generally is a long time in accepting the 
grinding machine, such as emery corundum or such type of wheel, 
either as a roughing out or finishing machine, although they are 
extensively used abroad. This system is both accurate and 
expeditious, both for internal or external diameters, and the run 
at a peripheral speed of 3500 feet per minute on very hard material. 

This subject of the speed of machine tools is a wide one and 
worthy of far more able pens than mine. Yet I trust my humble 
efforts will serve to " draw the fire " of some of our members, who 
may agree with me that the machine shops are the most important 
part of a commercial engineering works. 




V. 



DISCUSSION — THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 35 

universal use in all departments of engineering, and also in skip- 
building. I would have been very pleased had Mr. Littledale 
gone a little further into the matter of pneumatic tools, and in his 
reply he might do so, because it is, in my opinion, a subject that 
comes within the scope of his paper, and would add very much 
both to its interest and value in having Mr. Littledale's experi- 
once with this class of tools. 

Mr. W. G. Spence — I think that before beginning any dis- 
cussion on Mr. Littledale's paper I can only say that personally 
I feel very much obliged to him for it. I feel doubly so for two 
reasons : Firstly, that I think it an excellent paper on the sub- 
ject he has dealt with, and secondly, it is a type of paper we ^e^\ 
far too few of. It is a paper that requires to be read, and as I have 
not had an opportunity of doing so carefully I have only been 
able to jot down notes while listening to it ; but with so many 
points we ought to get some discussion. For instance, he at the 
outset observes : ** Also what little notice is taken of the practical 
working of machines in technical colleges as a rule." That is 
one of the few points on which I feel at variance with the writer. 
Personally, I think that technical colleges are not the places to 
teach about machine tools at all. A youth had better be taught 
there to think. The actual practical work can be better 
learned in the works. He mentions \k\!& importance of deluging 
tools with an efficient lubricant. That is a point that has come 
much more to the front in the last few years. There is a wonder- 
ful difference between a machine cutting with a can dripping 
water in the old way and a machine fitted with a pump attach- 
ment deluging the tool with liquid. Especially will this be the 
case if the liquid is a good oil, preferably lard oil. The waste is 
very little if the machine is suitably constructed and fitted with 
a proper sump for the oil to drain back into, as is the case with all 
automatic tools. Another point mentioned is the great varia- 
tion of ratios between the steps of the speed cones. That is a 
difficulty in many machines. Another difficulty with the present 
high class of tool steel is to get a sufficiently great total range of 
speed, that is, a speed sufficiently high for some classes of work 
and slow enough for others. A good arrangement is to have two 
sets of fast and loose pulleys on the counter-shaft — a small pair 
for the high speed steel and a larger pair for other work. I have 



S6 DISOITBBION — THE SP£BD OF HAOHINK SHOP TOOLS. 

tried a number of these liigh speed steels and have found a good 
deal of difHculty with belts slipping, and want of power generally, 
and arrangements to meet this will require to be made in many 
works. Mr. Littledale speaks of direct attachment, electric motors 
and switches. I have seen such arrangement for light work on 
a brass lathe, it admitted of a great yariation of speed, which 
variation could be obtained by simply moving the switch handle. 
How it would answer on heavy lathes I am not in a position to say. 
Another thing Mr. Littledale deals with is the question of supply- 
ing men with proper tools. This is one of the most important 
matters in the machine shop. It is about five years since [ 
adopted the system advocated in the paper add railed in a proper 
tool and fettling shop, having a regular tool grinder, so that no 
machine man grinds a tool, he simply touches it upon the stcme, 
and when it gets bad hands it back to the store and gets another 
ready ground in return for it. The difference between a tool 
ground on a proper grinding machine by an experienced grinder 
who does nothing else but grind fools from six in the morning to 
five at night and one ground haphazard on an ordinary stone by 
anybody is as great as that between chalk and cheese. The latter 
practice is being rapidly rooted out. There are several good tool 
grinding machines in the market, and one I put down about five 
years ago, beyond renewal of the emery wheels, has not cost 
half a sovereign in repairs, and the man will grind as many tools 
in a day as can be needed for a good-sized machine shop. For 
efficiency in the machine shop such a system is of primary 
importance. Every man knows that instead of going on with a 
worn-out tool he has just to hand it in and at once get a sharp 
one. Mr. Littledale remarks upon using a number of tools for 




blSCUSSIOlt — TriB 8PBBD Of MAOttlNE SttOP TOOLS. 87 

faster than that. In speaking of piece work Mr. Littledale seems 
to consider the foreman is the better man to fix prices. The 
difiicnlty I find is this : in the machine shop the usual number of 
foremen employed have enough to do in looking after the proper 
rotation of jobs, policing the shop and other departmental work 
and have no time to properly consider piece prices, the result is 
that piece work has generally fallen into abuse more through that 
than anything else. To fix piece prices properly a separate staff 
is necessary. Mr. Littledale speaks of tables and curves being 
made out for varying diameters of work and materials for each 
machine, but the difficulty was to get these used. What I have 
done on most of the principal machines is to have proper tables 
put up having a sketch of the cone pulleys clearly shewn on same, 
each pulley being marked by a reference letter and a note as to 
whether the back gear is to be in or out. By a glance at the sketch 
and reference to the table the proper pulley on the cone and gear 
can be seen at once for any diameter in any material for rough- 
ing or finishing cuts. That is about all I have to say on the paper, 
except, perhaps, that he mentions grinding, which has come to 
the front. He says it might be useful for roughing-out. I have 
not been able to use grinding for roughing economically, but for 
finishing piston or slide rods or work where you require a true sur- 
face and accurate diameter there is no other method that I know 
of equal to grinding. Some special grinding machines may be 
able to rough out economically but I have had no experience with 
them. In conclusion I have only to thank Mr. Littledale for his 
very interesting paper, and congratulate the Institution on his 
having brought forward an useful and controversial subject. 

The discussion was adjourned and the meeting dissolved. 



PB0CEBDIN6S. 39 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS 



SECOND GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
LECTURE HALL OF THE SUNDERLAND LITERARY SOCIETY, 
FAWCETT STREET, SUNDERLAND, ON FRIDAY, DECEMBER 13th, 
1901. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J. P., President, in the Chaib. 



The Secretary read the minutes of the previous General 
Meeting, held in Newcastle-upon-Tyne on 15th November, 1901, 
which were approved by the members present and signed by the 
President. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the President 
appointed Mr. W. H. Dugdale and Mr. R. H. Muir to examine 
the voting papers, and the following gentlemen were declared 
elected : — 

MEMBERS. 

Andrews, Edward W., B. Engineer, c/o Messrs. F. Reid, Kerens Sc Co., Orchard 

Street Buildings, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Beckett, Frank, E. Engineer, 8, Woodbine Place, Coatsworth Road, Gateshead- 

on-Tync. 
Chicken, Christopher B., Engineer, 17, Kenilworth Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Douglas, William Y., Engineer, c/o Messrs. Douglas Bros., Globe Iron Works, 

Blaydon-on-Tyne. 
Harris, John, Engineer, Truro House, Hotspur Street, Tynemouth. 
Smissen, C. Van Der, Supt. Engineer, c/o Messrs. Hamburg. American Steamship 

Co., Hamburg. 



^BOOBEDlItad. 



GRADUATES TO UEMBBB8. 



Bdclei, UuTTf, S. DraughUman, 19, Azalea Terrace South, Sunderland. 

Browne, Benjamin C., jun., Engineer, 58, Brighton Grove, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Carnegie, Alfred Q.. E. Engineer, 21, Eldon Place, Nencastle-upon-Tyne. 

Coulnon, Richard H. A.. Marine Engineer, 12, East View, South Shields. 

Dixon, John Thomas, Engineer, 27, Mcldon Terrace, Ueaton, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne. 

Dobson, Wm. G., Sliipbiiiliier, The Chesters, JeBmood, Newcastle -upon-Tyne. 

Dozford, Itobt., Jan., Shipbuilder, Kilksworth Hall. Sunderland. 

HamiltoQ, James, B. Draughtsman, Beech Hoaac, Mile End, S(ock|>ort. 

Hammond, Fleetwood C, E. Draughtsman, c/o Uesars. Cowpen .(;oal Co., LUl., 
Cowpen Colliery, Blyth. 

Hepburn, James M,, Marine Engineer, IT, Grosvenor Place, Ketrcastle-upnn-Tj'ne. 

Hills, Lawrence, S. OraaghtBman, Z, Somerset Terrace, East Bolden, Newcastle' 
upon-Tyiic. 

Mi'Coull, Cecil, Electrical Engineer, 94, Drajton Park, Highbury, London, H. 

Mo<s, William, Engineer, Eirkriew, Shipley, Yorkshire. 

Nelson, George, Marine Engineer, .'il, Cardigan Tetmcc, Heatun, Newcastle-upon- 

Patterson, Robert 0., Knginecr, Thorn eybolnie House, Blaydon-on-Tync. 
PoB^ate, James S., Marine Knginecr, Durham House, Windmill Street, Gravcsend, 

Kent. 
RoutledKi', Herbert J., E. Draughtsman, Slapleton House, Jarrow-on-Tjne. 
Turner, Charles N., lOripineer, 21, Lansdow no Terrace, Gasforth, Ncwcastlc-upoQ- 

Tyne. 
Watson, John, S, Draughtsman, 24, Wandsworth Road, Heaton, Newcastle- 
Wright, George U., Engineer, 23, Athury I'ark Road, Tynemontb. 

ASSOCIATE. 

Murmy, lli^nry II., Aci:ountant, Hastings Lodge, Hartlepool. 

GRADOATKS. 

Bailey, Ralph U., Engineer, 3, South Avenue, KytoQ-oo-Tyue. 

Burgess, Norvftl H., S. Draughtsman, 46, North View, Heaton, Newcastle- 







biSCTTSSION ^THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 4l 



AUJOURNED DISCUSSION ON MR. J. W. E. LITTLE- 
DALE'S PAPER ON '' THE SPEED OF MACHINE SH(JP 
TOOLS." 

The discussion on Mr. J. W. E. Littledale's paper on " The 
Speed of Machine Shop Tools," read at the previous General 
Meeting, was resumed. 

Mr. William J. Paulin — Mr. Littledale has presented his 
views of a most important branch of engineering in an able 
and practical manner. He has pointed out the principal 
lines on which modern machinery is built, with a view of 
obtaining higher cutting speeds, greater accuracy in finish, 
with greater production. One question very much to the point 
he asks, in connection with new revelations: '*Why don't they 
do that on old-fashioned machines ? " A common enough 
answer would be that the old machine was built to cut wrought 
iron, and so had not the stiffness and rigidity possessed by 
modem machines in these days of tough steel. Where we do 
possess an old machine with sufficient belt power, and of rigid 
construction, unless the longitudinal feed is driven from the 
lead screw, we find it driven by a slow moving narrow belt, the 
power available from which is inversely as the demand upon 
it. From personal experience I have found that given these 
conditions I have just mentioned, an excellent plan to get what 
is here plainly required, a positive feed, is to use sprocket wheels 
and a chain drive. In this way I have been able to increase a 
frictional feed, whose fastest speed was 20 to the inch, to 9f turns 
to the inch pos., the lathe standing up to it splendidly, although 
the rack drive to the saddle was placed on the side of the bed 
farthest from the tool. Mr. Littledale's experiments in tool 
steels of English manufacture are very interesting and are, I 
think, more in keeping with English practice, whei-e he obtains 
an increase of over 50 per cent., still maintaining heavy cuts 
and feeds. The high rate of speed on cast iron obtained in 
test A prompts me to ask if this was not a second cut, say, over 
a plain face with no interruption in its surface, from which a 
first cut had cleared off the hard skin. So much depends on 
the cast iron itself, the amount of sc i in its composition, and 



42 DISCUSSION— THE SPEED OP MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

the kind of it, that in milling operations with cylindrical rough- 
ing cutters, with interrupted cutting edges, I have cut wrought 
iron and mild steel at 54 feet per minute with, of course, plenty of 
lubrication, and have found the same amount of wear on the 
tools aa if they had run on caat iron at 35 feet. In milling cast 
iron the first edge the tool attacks should be chipped, or, in 
small work ground, to get below the Bkiu, as this saves fre- 
quent grinding of the tool. In makung tests with special 
steel on a very powerful 16 inches centre lathe, fed by leading 
screw driven by 3J inches belt running at 920 feet per minute, 
we were able to carry a ^V cut on J inch feed on hard steel shaft 
71 inches diameter, running about 35 feet per minute for about 
1 hour, the tool being in good condition at the end of the trial. 
We could get no higher speed which would carry the cut. I 
was obliged, therefore, to come to the conclusion that to get 
the highest possible results from this steel, specially designed 
roughing out lathes were necessary ; or, as Mr. Littledale has 
suggested, independent motor driving, which would give the 
increased horsepower necessary, by increasing the driving belt 
speed, and allowing us to place the lathe in heavier gear. One 
thing seems noticeable in these trials— that the increase of 
power necessary to drive at these higher speeds seems out of 
proportion to the increase of speed. In referring to the want of 
stiffness in a machine TAt. Littledale suggests assisting matters 
to a certain extend by reducing the fee<l and depth of cut, and 
so gaining a higher speed with special tool steel. Particularly 
in cast iron I have found this of very little use, the ia- 
etjualities in the surface where the skin remained unbri^en 
rubbing down the cutting edge of the tool in no time, causing 




DlSCtrSSION — THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 48 

feed varies with the machine speed we now feed at yV inch per 
minute, and no ordinary range of feeds would enable us to gear 
up to a suitable feed. But if, on the other hand, the feed is 
driven independently from the countershaft, we are still run- 
ning at 1 inch per minute, and, if we desire, still able to 
increase, say up to 3 inches per minute. One word with regard 
to the high speeds of cutting given as American practice. We 
expect rather tall stories from America, and generally get them. 
The Bethlehem tool steel gave remarkably high si)eed8, no 
doubt, but the cut and feed for so powerful a lathe and so large 
a shaft was absurdly light, and a personal inspection of a twist 
drill about IJ inch diameter made from this steel, which had 
been driven through mild steel at a very high si)eed, convinced 
me that to do the same thing again with that drill was a mani- 
fest impossibility, as the drill was so worn on the circumference as 
to be smaller at the cutting diameter than further up the drill. 
And those members who have witnessed any drilling with twist 
drills in this condition will agree with me that the amount of 
trouble encountered hardly warrants its repetition. There is, 
however, no doubt that we are now in possession of new and 
excellent tool steels, and practical papers on the subject of their 
use such as Mr. Littledale ha« given us, with its tabulated 
experiments, widens our information in a way which is valuable, 
and it affords me great pleasure to join in the general apprecia- 
tion with which Mr. Littledale' s paper has been deservedly 
received. 

Mr. P. M. Bennet — I must congratulate Mr. Littledale 
on his paper, to which I listened on the 15th November with 
great interest. With regard to the out-of-date machinery, 
many firms, I believe, are accustomed to put away to a deprecia- 
tion fund from 10 to 15 per cent., but one often sees in these 
firms machine tools of perhaps 15 years of age. I should think 
a depreciation fund of 10 per cent, should only see machine 
tools of from 7 to 10 years of age. Some short time ago I was 
enabled to make a few tests with several tool steels, and I 
found that none of these could compare with the Bethlehem 
tool steel tests, though apparently these are not quite as good 
afi reported. I have a few photographs here with a table of 
the results which I will not trouble to read to the meeting 1 



44 DISCtrSSION — ^THE SPEED OF MACUINE SHOP TOOLS. 

will hand them over for iasertion in the Transactiotia. (See 
Plates I. to IV.) 

The photographs show two positions of each tool, and each 
tool stood one teat of a certain duration. Mr, Littledale (fives 
us three tests with three different tool steels, but the com- 
parative prices given were sample C half the price of sample 
B, and sample A a third greater than sample B, Would 
it not be better to give us the actual prices? I have attached 
to my list of tests the prices of the tool steols, and of course, the 
prices have a very great deal to Ao with it. One comes across 
tool steels which are charged sometimes three times their actual 
value in cutting tjuality. I must join in the general' congratula- 
tions to Mr. Littledale on his paper. 

Mr. H. K. HoLLLs -I do not propose to offer anything 
in tfic Hliape of criticism upon Mr. Littledale's paper, but as 
the subject with which he deals has during a period of 
close iij>on twenty years come ratlier prominently under my 
notice, and especially so during the last twelve months, I should 
like to say that I think Mr. Littledale has placed the Institution 
under an obligation to him for having brought the subject before 
it, and given an opportunity for discussion upon a subject which 
undoubtedly at the present time is engaging the attention of 
most engineers. If I did venture to make any criticism upon 
Mr. Littledale's paper I should say that in my humble opinion 
he has perhaps rather given consideration to what seem to me 
t« be comparatively unimiKirtant points, to the exclusion of the 
first principles or causes iijion which the speed of machine tools 
greatly depends. But I think that this paper ought to 




DISCUSSION — ^THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 45 

ditions and management of belting, and subjects of that sort. 
Further discussion might be interesting on power itself — ■ 
on the relative merits, disadvantages and advantages of steam 
and electric power. There are advocates of both, and it 
would be very interesting to hear these advocates thrash out 
the subject at an Institution meeting. Coming nearer home a 
further discussion might take place, or a small paper be read 
upon the use and dreadful abuse of tool steel. There is a good 
deal to be said upon this subject and the management of it. 
Mr. Littledale in his paper rightly refers to the necessity for 
setting up a proper standard or a proper system of grinding 
tools. It seems to be thought by some people that any man can 
grind a tool. Any man cannot grind a tool, any more than 
any man you meet in the street can cut your hair. There is a 
right and a wron^g grinding angle for tools, and amateur grind- 
ing ought, as far as possible, to be done away with. A grinder 
is a skilled person, and the sooner you can do away with 
amateur grinding the more likely you are to get the maximum 
results out of your machinery. Of course, supposing all these 
things are put right, I don't suppose for a moment that all your 
difficulties are over, because, after all that, you have the men 
to deal with, and there is no doubt at all that, generally speak- 
ing, they are a little suspicious and jealous about these high 
speeds. They don't altogether care about them, as I gather from 
experience, for after making numerous tests and getting highly 
satisfactory results, at the end of four, five or six weeks one goes 
back and finds that in spite of these satisfactory results the old 
speeds have been returned to and nobody seems to know exactly 
why. That difficulty can only be met by having a close system 
of inspection in your shops. It should be the duty of some 
official to keep his eye on that point — to go round the shop and 
see that the tools are working up to their capacity — as apart 
altogether from this high speed question, I venture to say, with 
the present conditions, and present appliances and ordinary 
steels there would be very little difficulty in many places in get- 
ting something like from 10 to 20 per cent, higher efficiency out 
of the tools than possibly exists at the present time. I 
do not think that I ought to trespass more uj>on the 
meeting. I ought, indeed, to apologise that I, a layman, should 
have the assurance to get up and address the meeting? at all. 



46 DISCUSSION — THE SPEED OF UACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

but I hope I may claim your forbearance, and the forbearance 
of the meeting, for having done so. I have no desire to grind 
my own axe, or to begin to institute any comparisons between 
the steel made by my own and other firms, but before I sit down 
1 would like to say, on. behalf of myself and British tool steel 
manufacturers, that there is no necessity for gentlemen 'in this 
country to go either to the States, or to France, or to any foreign 
country to obtain steel, because you can get in this country steel 
that will do all you require for the power you have got, or are 
likely to get, to give it. 

Mr. William Thompson, by invitation of the President, 
addressed the meeting. He said— As a visitor I would like to 
put before you a few remarks on behalf of my partner, Mr. 
James Rowan, who is a member of your Institution, regard- 
ing the subject which Mr, Littledale has brought before 
you. We look upon this as an exceedingly important matter 
indeed. We think too little attention has been in the past 
devoted to this subject, and I am very glad to think, and 
to see, that there is a very lively and increased interest being 
brought to bear on this important matter. Mr. Rowan writes 
me as follows: — "I quite agree with Mr. Littledale in his 
remarks near the beginning of his paper, that it has struck him 
as peculiar how loth young engineers sometimes are to go 
through the machine departments when learning their trade. 
That is also most emphatically our experience. Whether an 
apprentice engineer considers it beneath his dignity to work a 
turning lathe, or what it is, we cannot say, but we know 
assuredly he goes to a machine with a grudge. The output of a 




DISCITSSION — THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 47 

plant ; a careful selection of that plant, and, as much as possible, 
special machinery for special work. We have found by experi- 
ence that it is no use attempting to fix up old machines to do 
good work. It is cheaper to buy new ones, and certainly to buy 
the best. The last factor mentioned by Mr. Littledale is an 
important one, viz., * The man who works the machine.' I 
would suggest that the introduction of a premium system, or 
some sort of encouragement, would help matters, but it is not 
as a rule so much the men who are to blame as the manage- 
ment, which is often satisfied with dirty, badly lighted work- 
shops, and no artificial heating. In other words the men are 
often asked to work under conditions which no manager or 
employer would care or wish to work under unless he were 
compelled to. Employers are unwilling to part with old tools, 
looking upon them as good old friends, but if employers would 
have sufiicient pluck to introduce a premium system and follow 
it up closely they would soon learn the advantages of good 
machines, modern appliances and modem methods of doing 
work and would not be satisfied until they were adopted. Mr. 
Littledale states : — * You will notice in such a case, that the 
tool that is inverted, and has the lubricant dripping on its 
point, will last longer than the one on the side that has the 
water dropping on to the shaving of material and dribbling use- 
lessly down the side.' I beg to differ altogether from this 
statement. I have satisfied myself on many occasions that 
there is no appreciable difference, and I should like to hear 
from Mr. Littledale what data he has to give for arriving 
at this conclusion. Mr. Littledale states in reference to 
the premium system, that ' A competent practical man 
who can tell pretty nearly to five minutes how long it should 
take to set a job.' This is by no means our experience, 
unless it is such a simple job as putting a shaft into 
a lathe which has previously been centred; but take such jobs 
as these which are placed in slotting machines, on face lathes, 
on drilling machines, and it will be found that men themselves 
doing the same jobs will not repeat them within a far greater 
limit of time than five minutes. The speeds and feed given by 
Mr. Littledale in the table of cutting speeds are not what might 
be done or what is done every day in workshops provided with 
good machines, and speeds from 35 to 50 per cent, greater than 



48 DISCUSSION — THE SPEED OF UACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

mentioned are in every -day use in modem workshopB. Too 
much importance should not be attached to the expresBion 
' speed.' It will be found that some workmen are fond of cut- 
ting at a high speed with a light feed, and others cut at a slow 
speed with a coarser fee<1. In many cases the time taken to do 
the job will be practically alike." 

Mr. Chakles Blow said— The subject of Mr. Littledale's 
paper is one of great importance in a district like ours, in which 
are such a large number of engineering works, and I think we 
ai-e very much indebted to him for the trouble taken in pre- 
paring it. Under Mr. Littledale's headings the first is " want 
of stitfncss in a machine to stand a high rate of cutting speed 
and heavy feed." This is one of the principal factors prevent- 
ing machines being run at high speeds, but in my experience 
I have found many cases where the speeds of machines could be 
increased much beyond what has been the usual practice, with- 
out reducing the feed or depth of cut, as suggested by Mr. 
Littledale, as in my opinion the reduction of either or both of 
these defeats the object aimedat by all engineers when increas- 
ing the cutting speeds, that is, to increase the output of a 
machine in a given time. I think it is better to start with the 
largest feed and cut that a job will stand without springing and 
then put up the speed of your machine to a little within the 
limit of driving power and the failing point of your tool steel. 
Referring to the cutting speed and feed table, given in the paper, 
as iM'ing slightly in excess of the majority of English speeds, I 
think in these Mr. Littledale is a long way short of what has 
been usual in many of our local shops. Take the table for 




btsCUSSioN— THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 49 

feet per minute, the difficulty in the past has been to get a tool 
steel that would keep its cutting edge good, when heated up 
by the work done. Recently, however, as mentioned in the 
paper, English steel manufacturers have introduced steel 
mostly of the air-hardening type, which retains its cutting 
edge when heated up to an abnormal degree. This property 
enables much higher cutting speeds to be adopted with economy. 
The firm with which I am connect^ are makers of a steel of 
this class, which is easily made up by any good toolsmith, and 
is capable of keeping a good cutting edge at speeds 75 per cent, 
to 100 per cent, higher than was customary a very short time 
ago, the cuts and feeds being much the same as usual. One 
general result of my experience in introducing this steel is that 
the limit of driving power of the lathe is reached before the 
failing point of the steel. This has been realised by engineers 
and where possible they are putting down new plant with more 
driving power and to nin at higher speeds. As instances of 
what is being done with this steel on ordinary good lathes, not 
by any means new, I may say that in a number of shops on the 
north-east coast and other districts marine and similar shaft- 
ing is being roughed out at speeds from 50 to 60 feet per 
minute with the usual cut about f inch to i inch deep, and a feed 
of 8 per inch. Others, again, being limited by their machinery 
to speeds of about 30 to 40 feet per minute get over the diffi- 
cully in a measure by using a feed of 4 per inch, and some 
are working with a feed of f inch per revolution. Tools 
on work of this class will often stand for a whole shift 
without grinding. Looking on the economical side of the use 
of such cutting steel as I have mentioned you have a saving 
in time in the finishing of machine work on a job which is very 
often of the greatest value; again, I know cases where men 
have been on piecework, where the piecework price has been 
reduced by 33 per cent, to 40 per cent. To give those that 
have not seen work done at the high speeds and large feeds 
mentioned, an idea of the amount of material removed, I have 
with me here a number of shavings which have been taken 
off at different works, which speak for themselves. I thank you 
for the opportunity of expressing my opinions. 

Mr. LiTTLEDALE, in reply to a question by the Pi t, said 

e would reply on the discussion at the next gene 

lOU XYHL— loot. 



BALLASTING OF TRAMP STEAMERS. 51 



THE BALLASTING OF MODERN TRAMP STEAMERS. 



By E. C. CHASTON. 



[Read before the Instttution at Sunderland 
ON Degembeb 13th, 1901.] 



In looking over the proposed syllabus of papers to be read 
before the Institution this session, 1901-1902, the writer finds 
heading the list, ** The Ballasting of Sihips," and he was very 
pleased to see that this subject had been suggested by the Council. 
The writer cannot attempt within the limits of this paper to deal 
with this subject in all its bearings as fully as its importance 
deserves, but it is to be hoped that in the discussion, which he 
trusts will follow the reading of the paper, the whole matter will 
be gone into in all its details, and that the light thrown on the 
subject will be the means of pointing out to underwriters, ship- 
owners and others concerned in the weKare of the mercantile 
marine the short-sighted policy of sending ships to sea in an unsea- 
worthy condition, due to want of suflBcient ballast. 

If we go back to January, 1897, and take the salvage cases due 
to broken shafts, loss of rudders, etc., up to the present time, one 
can only express siirprise that such a state of things is allowed to 
exist. Writing as one who has a practical knowledge of the 
subject, the writer admits that up till about four years ago he was 
inclined to think there was something radically wrong with the 
shipbuilding and marine engineering profession respecting the 
scantlings of both hulls and machinery. But after carefully look- 
ing into the cause of shaft breakages and disabled rudders, broken 
or fractured rudder posts, etc., he came to the conclusion that in- 
sufficient ballast was and is the cause of three-fourths of the ^hole 
trouble, and that it is imperative (if the shipowner will not, and 
the underwriter does not, insist upon a vessel being sent to sea in 
proper ballast trim) that there should be an under-load line fixed 



6^ BALLASTtl4G OF tRAUF STEAME&S. 

by the Board of Trade or the authorized freeboard-asfligning 
authorities. In the present type of G.OOfl to 7,000 tonners, lenglh, 
B.P, , ;!&() feet ; breadth, 47 feet ; depth, moulded, 29 feet G inches ; 
with all tanks full, boilers full, stores mi board and 600 to 700 tons 
bunker coals, leady to sail to the westward, the ballast draft would 
be approximately 12 feet 3 inches aft and 8 feet 2 inches forward, 
or a mean draft of 10 feet 2^ inches. If we take the centre line of 
shafting at 10 feet G inches from the base line of the vessel and 
add half the diameter of the propeller boas, say 1 foot 4i inches, 
this will give 11 feet lOJ inches from the keel to highest part of 
propeller boss, or in other words the boss of the propeller would 
be submerged 4i inches. Apart from this data, which is quite 
in keeping with present-day practice, the writer has often seen 
propeller bosses two, three and four inches awash on vessels leav- 
ing continental and the lower Mediterranean ports for the United 
Kingdom coal -loading ports. 

In addition to the risks of shaft breakages, machinery damage, 
etc., vessels in the trim described above are quite unmanageable 
in a fresh breeze — due to the fact that they will not answer their 
helm — they fall oft' before the wind and become a sonirce of danger 
to navigation in such places as the English Channel, Bristol 
Channel and Irish Sea. The writer has been on board of a modem 
tramp 6,300 tons dead weight going from Liverpool to Newport, 
Monmouthshire, in ballast in a moderately fresh breeze, wind 
ahead, when the vessel kept continually falling off her course and 
turned completely round time aft«r time ; and in no case could the 
master get the vessel's head to wind under an hour. Arriving off 
Swansea at nighttime, the master would not risk taking his vessel 
amongst the tralhc in the dark but droppeil anchor in Swansea 




BALLASTING OF TRAMP STEAMERS. 53 

charter, and during tke three months freights to Aden had fallen 
48. per ton, so the vessel lost in freight alone £1,100 on her out- 
ward fixture and a further loss of £320, say eight days at £40 per 
day added to this, coaling and harbour dues, port charges, etc., at 
Corcubion, at least another £150, making a dead loss of £1,570 
to the owner on a fourteen days' run. This loss was solely due 
to insufficient ballasting of the vessel, and not necessarily to 
stress of weather, the log book recording fresh winds on bow, sea 
moderate, with swell on bow. 

This is one of, we may say, hundreds of cases proving the 
great money loss to shipowners through neglecting to have their 
vessels in proper ballast trim. It is surprising to think that ship- 
owners in far too many cases will not go to the expense of paying 
the cost of the necessary extra ballast to put a ship sufficiently 
down in the water for a run across the Atlantic light. The cost of 
sand ballast to-day is a mere bagatelle in comjmrison with the loss 
sustained by a long passage owing to the vessel being too high out 
of the water. To demonstrate the value (to shipowners) of having 
a ship sufficiently or properly ballasted, the writer gives below the 
performances of a few vessels running across to North America in 
ballast trim. Steamship (A), length, B.P., 340 feet ; breadth, 
extreme, 45 feet ; depth, moulded, 28 feet ; I.H.P., 1,234 to 1,250 ; 
speed 9 knots ; deadweight, 5,697 tons on a mean draft of 22 feet 
10^ inches. The above vessel, when water ballasted only and with 
600 tons of bunkers on board, had a draft of 13 feet 2 inches aft 
and 11 feet 1 inch forward, the distance from the base line to the 
centre line of tail shaft being 10 feet 6 inches, the diameter of 
shaft, 12J inches, and the diameter of propeller boss 2 feet 9 inches, 
thus giving 9 J inches immersion of propeller boss in smooth water ; 
the diameter of the propeller was 17 feet. This vessel used to 
take 19 to 25 days on the passage from the north-east coast ports to 
Hampton Roads, U.S., and Delaware breakwater, U.S., and invari- 
ably arrived with machinery defects and was eventually towed 
into the Azores with broken shaft and loss of propeller, the shaft 
having gone at the largest part of the cone. There was no trace 
of corrosion or other defects, the shaft was in perfect line, and the 
fracture was as clean a break as any one could wish to see. The 
cause was directly traced to want of sufficient ballast. After 
such experiences and consequent loss through delay, salvage 
and towage home, the owner decideil to have his ships sufficiently 



54 BALLASTING OF TBAMP f 

ballaated, vith the following results, in thi« particular case of A., 
of ttree succeesive voyages : — 

August, 1897. — In addition to her water ballast aad 600 tons 
of bunkers, she took 600 tons of sand ballast at la. 6d. per ton, f .o.b., 
and sailed from Blyth on August 14th, arriving at the Delaware 
breakwater on August 30th, 15J days on the paasage, with an 
average speed per day of 228'9 knots. 

October, 1897. — Left the Tyne on October 11th for Hampton 
Beads. Arrived there on October 29th. Average speed per day 
221'9 knots over a period of 17 days. She bad on this voyage 
750 tons of ssnd ballast at 2s. per ton, f.o.b., about 400 tons of 
this being on deck. The quantity of bunkers and other conditions 
were the same as previous voy^e. 

December, 1897. — Left the Tyne on December 12th for Hamp- 
ton Roads and arrived December 81st. Average speed over a 
period of 18} days, 194'5 knots. During this passa^^ some excep- 
tionally bad weather was experienced, and innumerable vessels 
put back in distress and in a more or less disabled condition. 
The writer does not wish to state any more cases in detail, but 
he has data of four ships similar to A, doing the same work or 
voyages, viz., to the United States in ballast regularly and home 
with cargo. The approximate drafts, with sand ballast, are 17 feet 
8 inches aft and 13 feet 6 inches forward, ranging down to 16 feet 
4 inches aft and 13 feet forward according to the time of the year. 
The speeds given in ship A are not necessarily given to show the 
speed of the vessel, but to show the regularity of speed or passages 
made. Machinery damage was practically nil, there being no 
shaft breakages or rudder defects during the last four years. After 
experiences like the above one would be surprised at any ship- 




BALLASTING OF TEAMF STEAMERS. 



55 



Institution in 1898, or in 'tween deck tanks as per Diagrams 1 to 
4. The writer does not advocate any special form or means of 
ballasting steamers, but he does wish to draw attention to the 
vast amount of damage done to modem tramp steamers generally, 
and their machinery in particular, due to the want of sufficient 





NOLO ft/trCM 



j-j r _--- T ^ .a -Zr-^-^J 




HOL D 








Diagram No. 1. 



\)allast, and consequent excessive racing of engines and the general 
Xinmanageableness of the vessels in not anwering their helms and 
ialHng off their courses into the trough of the sea — to say nothing 
of the great risk to life. 

Ballasting ought to be a more prominent feature in the design 
%A the tramp steamer than it is at present, and the extra cost 



66 



BALLASTina OF TRAUF STEAHER6. 



involved would be so comparatively trifling as to be scarcely worth 
considering. But apparently, up to the present time, there are 
still vessels building of the following dimensions: — 

(a) Length, B.P., 395 feet; beam, 48 feet; depth, moulded, 
31 feet ; Lloyds' highest class ; total ballast tank capacity, 1,019 




BALLASTING OF TRAMP STEAMERS. 



67 



13 feet 6 inches aft, 8 feet 3 inches forward, mean draft 10 feet 
10^ inches, tons per inch of immersion on this draft 37, distance 







Diagram No. 3. 







Diagram No. 4. 



from base line to centre line of shaft 10 feet 6 inches, diameter 
of propeller 17 feet 6 inches, vessel designed to carry over 7,000 
tons. 



58 BALLASTINa OF THAUP STEAUEBfl. 

{b) and (c) are two sister vessels. Length, B.P., 360 feet; beam, 
48 feet ; depth, moulded, 30 feet 10 iaches ; deadweight on 34 feet 
6 inches, 7,000 tons; total ballast tajik capacity, 896 tons; baseline 
of ship to centre line of tail shaft, 10 feet 6 inches, diameter of 
shaft, 15 inches. From these figures it can easily be seen that 
these two Tessels would not have the bosses of their propellers 
submerged when leaving a continental discharging port for a 
United Kingdom loading port fully equipped, stored, and with 200 
or even 300 tons of bunker coals on board. 

With figures like these it is no wonder we have continual 
breakdowns and unmanageable ships. To say the least it is a 
moat unsatisfactory condition of affairs in regard to the ordinary 
tramp steamer of to-day. The following list of mishaps* which 
have occurred during the months of July, August, and September 
last has been copied from the " Syren " for your serious considera- 
tion, and in conclusion the writer would recommend any member 
who is interested in the subject, and who has not already done ao, 
to read the veiy excellent article on ballast in Mr. T. Walton's 
book entitled " Know Your Own Ship." 

The Pkesident — The discussion on Mr. Chaston's paper will 
be taken at our next meeting. Sonic of my shipbuilding friends 
will, I am sure, be very pleased to know that an engineer has at 
last found out the reason why tail shafts break. 

The meeting then terminated. 




BALLASTING OF TBAMP STEAICEBS. 



59 



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t>k0CEBDING8. 6l 



NORTH EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEEES 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



EioUTGBNTH Sessioit, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



THIRD GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
LECTURE HALL OF THE UTERARY AND PHILOSOPHICAL 
SOCIETY, NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, ON FRIDAY EVENING, 
JANUARY 24th, 1902. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J. P., President, in the Chaib. 



The Secretary read the minutes of the previous meeting, 
held in Sunderland on the 13th of December, 1901, which were 
approved by the members present and signed by the President. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the President 
appointed Mr. G. D. Weir and Mr. W. G. Spence to examine 
the voting papers, and the following gentlemen were declared 
elected : — 

MEMBERS. 

Hnmphreya, George, Supt. Engineer, c/o Messrs. Beckingham Sc Co., King 

Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
MacMillan, H. M., B.Sc., Ship Draughtsman, 58, Fern Avenue, Jesmond, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Patterson, Thomas Henry, Shipbuilder, 2, The Elms, Sunderland. 
Roxburgh, Allan B., Engineer, Whalley House, Esplanade Place, Whitley Bay. 
Sinclair, Charles B., Consulting Engineer, 18, James Street, Liverpool. 



GBADUATSIB TO HEHBEBB. 
Agar, Alfavcl, B. Dnnghtna«ii, 3, Sat Orore, North Parade, Belfut, 
Lee, Hugh WarreD, Eagineer, 88, Manor Home Boad, Jcamoiid, Hewcaatle- 

npon-Tjne. 
Helnlle, Jamea, Marine Sagiaaei, Dnke Street, B arrow-in -Fiinieai. 
Bappaport, Fred. O., Engineer, Messrs. Busaian Petroleam and Liquid Fuel Co., 

Baka, South Bmsia. 
BoblosoQ, Francis, Marine Engineer, The Vicarage, Williugton Qnay-ou-Tjne. 
TsimeniB, Andrew, Naval Architect, Durham College of Scienoe, Newcaatle- 

upon-Tjne. 

ABBOCIATB. 
Bamtaj, Norman F., BTaeBlouuder, 80, BaoderMui Boad, Newcaatle-npon-Tyue. 

GBADDATEB, 

Cnttle, Benr; H. H. (IS), App. Eegineer, 93, Coataworth Boad, Qateshead-on- 
Tyne. 

Fortune, Thoa. C. (10), B. DranghtsmaD, TS, Falmouth Boad, Heatou, New- 
oast] e-npon-Ty ne. 

Oreen, Fred. Wm.(16), B, Dranghtgmaa,*, Belle QroTe Place, NewcMtle-apon- 
Tyne. 

Heck, William D. (30), App. Engineer, 10, Bristol Terrace, NewcaBtle-upon-Tjne. 

Leitch, Qeorge A. (20), App. Bnglneer, t, Akeneide Terrace, Newcastle-npon- 
Tync. 

Watson, John Q. B. (31), 8. Draughtsman, G, Nesham Street, NewcMtle-apon- 
Tyne, 




l)lSCtTSSldN — THE SPEED OF MACHH^E SHOt» TOOLS. 6^ 



MR. LITTLEDALE'S REPLY TO THE DISCUSSION ON 
HIS PAPER ON " THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP 
TOOLS." 

Mr. J. W. E. LiTTLEDALE replied to the discussion on his 
paper on "The Speed of Machine Shop Tools." He said — Mr. 
Andrew, in his remarks on my paper, considers that I should 
have dwelt more fully on the subject of the use of compressed 
air, in its reference to machine shop tools. I must say that I 
a^ee fully with him that the use of compressed air machinery 
has come to the front and intends to stay in that position, an 
ally of no mean repute to electricity. Comment on the many 
advantages of this system of working machinery would, I fear, 
occupy too much of your time this evening. I shall only say 
that the safety, cleanliness, and portability of apparatus as well 
as the small amount of space occupied are some of the many 
advantages indigenous to this system and to it alone. The use 
of compressed air in drilling has these advantages, the power 
acts direct on to the machine and does not appreciably drop in 
transmission if the mains are in good repair, the rapidity with 
which you can drive yoiu' drill with such power behind it and 
the portability of the machine are well appreciated in shipyards 
as well as the machine shops. The use of pneumatic drilling 
machines enabled me to increase my speed of drills 30 per cent., 
as I had definite proof the drills would stand the strain. The 
only drawback is the shifting of the gear when holes were far 
apart. I need hardly add that the less complicated a machine 
is the better, as the unskilled hand can then clean it, which does 
away with the mechanic's time wage going on to the machine 
tools for upkeep. 

The pneumatic rammer for foundry use, also the pneumatic 
brush for cleaning castings are not in their present stage 
favourites with me, but manufacturers will find the use of the 
pneumatic chipping or caulking hammers or rivetting to be well 
worthy of their extensive consideration, especially if they have 
large cast steel castings to deal with. I give h< table 



64 DISCTTSSION — THE SPEED OP UACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

of the quaatity of rivets fixed by the different types of rivetting 
hammer from notes taken in this locality, 80 I presume the state- 
ment cannot be parried. 



iohonri 
10 hours 
10 houra 



1,CN)0-1,2(IO . 



Bridge work. 

Beam knee tud frame ends. 

Deck. 



The decrease in numbers is plainly seen to be due to the inability 
of the men to go straight away with their work. 

Comparison between pneumatic and hydraulic rivetting is a 
subject for the marine architect to discuss. 

In the journal devoted io the use of and styled " Compressed 
Air" for March, 1901, there is a full and comprehensive list of 
the " speeds," air consumption and weight of four standard types 
of pneumatic hammer and the dimensions of the moving parts. 
The hammers taken are as follows: — 





Tn«Q 


,_. 


ap«rf^n^BI^-. 


»;:!„'■ 


"X**" 






Rom ... 




11,000 
11,000 
11,000 
11,000 
1I,0U0 


30 
25 
IS 
15 
13 


Hi 

IS! 
I* 






Q. und C. 


££i 


10,<IO0 


12 
12 
10 


5J 






Q. and C. 


Doable ( 


16.000 

1,200 


18 
IS 
20 


;•! 






Little r-isTil 


1 

1 


1,500 
2,000 
2,000 


10 
15 
16 


12 

1! 






Boyar .. 




1,000 
1,800 


20 
20 


2S 
13 




^M 



DISCUSSION THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 65 

area of instruction the individual subject suffers. Yet I still 

maintain that where there is mechanical instruction given in the 

engineering laboratories as it very often is, there would be time 

and most instructive as well a« genial employment for the junior 

members of such classes to experiment on tool steel, systems of 

gearing, driving of, and feeds and speeds of the ordinary lathe ; 

instead of turning or shaping test pieces at a kill time pace, 

which is only conducive to laziness. In reference to his remarks 

on my tables of speed, I admit they seem low, but am sorry to 

say they were the average at which the majority of machines 

are worked and not the maximum attainable or adopted on 

one or two. 

Mr. Paulin's remarks are both interesting and instructive, 
stnd I am indebted to him for some valuable suggestions. In 
Teply to his query relative to independent feexls for milling 
imachines I have not had much practical experience in the adop- 
tion of this plan as yet, also I can assure him that the high rate 
4oi speed in test A was not the second cut but a roughing cut in 
^very case. I tried to break down the tool sample and subject 
dt to the severest possible test. 

I attach here the information required by Mr. Bennett re the 
^rice of the material in tool steel. 

A ... ... ... ... 2s. Od. per lb. 

.M^ ••• ••• ••• ••• ^ 9 • ^ *J vX • • f 

\-/ ••• •>■ >■• ••• V/Oa V\l* j^ 

I thank Mr. Hollis for his suggestions, but I hope he does 

:not consider that I should have dwelt in full on all the subjects 

le gives. What about one for instance — the transmission of 

power. Admitting that there is a great deal omitted, yet I 

consider a general outline of the minor details gives more scope 

for criticism and discussion for mutual benefit than a long 

dissertation on mathematical deductions correctly arrived at. 

In reference to the remarks at the end of his notes, I may say 

that I have lived a few years in the United States and Canada, 

and have seen this advei-tisement in large letters over a shop 

selling joiners' tools and all kinds of steel ware : — *' We keep 

only English jnanufactured goods, what better can you get?'' 

Also that of the four pocket knives I had I disposed of three at 

200 per cent, profit owing to the SheflSeld trade mark being on 

VOL xviix.— 1902 ^ 



66 DISCUSSION — THE SPEED OF MACHINE SHOP TOOLS. 

them. Also if you refer to Mr, B. J. J. Swan's " Raudnm Notes in 
the United States," producwl in " Enffineering " of December 
27th, lie remarks that Englisli ateelmakers seem to have nearly 
a monopoly of tlie American tool ateel market. The only 
criticism I heani derogalorj' (o British manufacture was the time 
taken in filling our contracts. 

Mr. Wm. Thompson's remarks are very much to the point 
when he refers to the shops being well lighted and warmed, it 
makefl this ditl'erence that good men will tty and keep their 
situations in comfortable shops. Mr. Thompson asks for data in 
reference to my remarks on the position of tools either inverted 
or otherwise, I can only say I have frequently tried this and 
found it as I stated. I have known a man slotting a commutator 
of over IflO sections save ;i hours on the second half by being 
put on the premium system. 

The Pbksidkxt — I liave to propose that a most hearty vote 
of thanks be given to Mr. Littledale for his paper. It was a very 
interesting paper; the discussion was also interesting, and I 
think the reply was perhaps more interesting than either. 

The motion was carried by acclamation. 




mSCTSStOK — BALLASTIXG OF TRAMP 8TEA1IKR8. 67 



DISCUSSION ON MR. E. C. CHA8T0XS PAPKU 
ON 'THE BALLASTING OF MODEUX TUAMP 
STEAMERS.' 

The President — Our next business is the disoussiou on Mr. 
E. C. Chaston's paper on ** The IWIastinj? of Mtxh^ni Tramp 
Steamers." By way of a commencement I have caUed Mr. 
Chaston's attention to his list of I]9 steamers. His pa|KM' deals 
specially with ships in ballast, but if you look at his |wper you 
will see many mentioned in the list ait* apparently loaded ships. 
Under the heading of ** cargo," we have ore, general, timber, 
and so on. Then we come to ** ballast," and I think there arc 
only three or four in ballast. I have called Mr. Chastoirs 
attention to that point, and no doubt he will be dealing with it 
in his reply. Generally, I was much interested in the paper, 
and was very pleased to find that it was not the weaknewH of 
the ship, as I said at last meeting, that cau8(>d all the brok(»n 
tail shafts. 

Mr. W. R. Lord said— The imiK>rtunt qut^stion of not 
givincr sufficient ballast to modern cargo steamers is one that 
should very properly command the attention not only of 
those who have to navigate them, but that of 8hii)ownerH, 
and unden^riters alike. The ably written paper by Mr. 
Chasten gives the reader a very good grasj) of this important 
subject. The effect of not having Hufficient hal/njtf. My own ex- 
perience as a commander has given me ample proof that steamers 
of to-day go to sea seriously handicapped for the want of sufficient 
ballast. As evidence of this the master of a ship who ])ro])erly 
appreciates his responsibilities in safeguarding the proj)erty and 
lives under his care will seriously hesitate before venturing to 
a4>proach a lee shore, or place his ship in a position from which 
ibe cannot be easily extricated. I regret to say that many 
steamers oi recent construction prove themselves to }h* (juit^ 
unmanageable, even in a strong breeze. It can therefore )hi 
imagined what they are like in a heavy gale. This is not to })e 
wo&dered at when it is considered that they have such a slight 



CB UlSCLSSION — BALLASTING OF THAMP STEAMEttS. 

hold of tlie water, particularly towards tlie end of a voya^, when 
their bunkers are nearly empty. On these occasions they fall 
off into the trough of the sea, and wallop about most unmerci- 
fully. It is ueedlesa to say that under such circumstanceB they 
are quhe beyond control. I have heard of several instances of 
steamers driving broadside on to the shore, and thus becoming 
total wrecks from the causes which I have assigned. In these 
cases the person that is blamed by the Board of Trade is the un- 
fortunate mastei', for they claim that his experience should teach 
him to know when a ship is in a seaworthy condition, and when 
she is not. Therefore, if he has had the good fortune to be 
saved, his position is not a happy one, for the reason that a 
court of enquiry will assui-edly inveutigate the matter, and if it 
is found that he had not taken the precaution to ballast his ship, 
he is punished for his delinquency by having bis certificate 
suspended. Whereas on the other hand, if he act« aa his 
judgment dictates and goes to the expense of providing sufhcient 
ballast for his vessel, he stands the best of chances of being 
superseded in his command at the termination of the voyage. 
It can, therefore, be seen that the poor man is in the unenviable 
position of being between the devil and the deep sea. In this 
connection it may be mentioned that there is another danger to 
whieh au under- ballasted ship is subjected, that is, the possibility 
of having her bottom knocked in whilst poundiog on the heavy 
seas that may be encountered. As a matter of fact I have heard 
of several steamers arriving in American ports with serious damage 
contracted in this way, and when the actual damage has been 
disclosed it has been u subject tor surprise that they have kept 
uftoal until they arrived in port. As to tht heat meam of ballast- 




DISCUSSION — BALLASTING OF TRAMP STEAMERS. 69 

tanks generally, I am strongly in favour of having a longitudinal 
division between them, which not only adds to their strength, 
but eases the pressure when a ship is rolling heavily. It is 
further an effective means of trimming a ship if she should have 
the misfortune to shift her cargo. There is no doubt but that 
many steamers would have been saved from capsizing if the ballast 
tanks had been arranged in this way. What would be the extra cost 
of constructing deep tanks? From enquiries, I find that for 
ordinary large sized ships it would work out to about one pound 
(£1) per ton carried, or in other words, if it is desired to have 
tanks carrying, say, 1,000 tons it would then be necessary to add 
JEIjOGO to the ordinary cost of construction. From an economic 
point of view I have no doubt but that this outlay would be 
recovered by shortened passages and reduction in wear and tear, 
particularly in the Atlantic trade. This is apart from the ques- 
tion of reduced coal consumption and portage bills. What is the 
cause of shafts breaking? — This is attributed by Mr. Chasten to 
the fact of ships being insufficiently ballasted, at least in three- 
fourths of the cases. That it is one of the factors leading to these 
accidents I have no doubt, but if we look at the records produced 
in the ** Syren and Shipping '' for January 1st we will see that 
out of 140 cases cited only 24 are stated to have been in ballast. 
This fact points to some other cause than that ascribed, and is, 
therefore, a matter that deserves the closest attention. Looking 
at this question from another standpoint, may not this accumula- 
tion of accidents be due to general structural weakness ? I have 
noticed since the introduction of steel in the building of ships that 
they have been much less rigid, and have proved more flexible in a 
heavy sea than was the case with the older ships. An under load 
line. — It is well known that this question has commanded the 
attention of nautical men, and others, for some time, and its 
importance was deemed to be such that a Bill dealing with the 
subject was introduced in the House of Lords last session by 
Lord Muskerry. In debate it was pointed out that a measure of 
such far-reaching consequences would seriously handicap British 
commerce. Therefore on its second reading bemg reached it 
was strenuously opposed by the Earl of Dudley, who represented 
the Board of Trade. There is no doubt, however, but that the 
question will be revived at some future date, with what result 
time only can tell. How to arrive at the best means of meeting 



70 



DISCUSSION — BAULASTING OP TEAMP STEAIt£S! 



ihs difficulty f — In view of the great importance of this question, 
and to ahov that the introduction of this paper hae demanded 
that practical attention which the subject deserves, would it not 
be as well to formulate some scheme showing in which way the 
proper ballasting of ships could be accomplished, and thus prove 
to shipowners that the extra cost of doing bo would be an eventual 
economy. If this could be done, and shipowners induced to look 
at it from such a standpoint, you may depend upon it that there 
would be no need for legislation ou the matter, ajid that all sections 
of those interested in our merchant navy would be satisfied. 

\o other members present wishing to speak. 

The Phksident said — I do not want to close the discussion 
yet. I think we had better adjourn it until the next meeting. 

The discussion was adjourned. 




SOME NOTES ON STEAM TTJEBINES. 71 



SOME NOTES ON STEAM TUEBINES. 



By F. J. WARBURTON. 



[Read bbfobe the Institution in Newcastle-upon-Tvnk, on 

Januaby24th, 1902.] 



I do not think there can be any doubt that the first engineer 
who saw a jet of steam flowing from a pipe tried to blow some 
sort of wheel round with it, and, although this must have 
happened at least three thousand years ago, the problem of 
obtaining rotary motion from the direct impulse of steam con- 
tinues to have an irresistible fascination for the mechanical 
engineer. 

There are, I believe, some three ways of utilising steam for 
the transformation of heat into useful work. 

In historical sequence, firstly, by directing a jet of steam 
on to movable objects, such as the blades of fans, or, in re- 
action wheels, by allowing the steam passage itself to revolve. 

Secondly, by condensing steam in a cylinder, and allowing 
the external atmospheric pressure to force a piston inwards 
(Newcomen's engine). 

Thirdly, by cutting oft* slices of high pressure steam, and 
expanding in the cylinders of the modem reciprocating engine. 

The steam turbine designer, however, is merely concerned 
with the first and oldest method. 

A perfect gas, according to the kinetic theory enunciated by 
Bernouilli, Joule, Tyndall and others, consists of a number of 
molecules, equal in size and weight, moving in straight lines 
and bombarding the boundaries of the space they occupy. Diy 
hot steam is found to behave as a perfect gas, and is considered 
as such in this paper. 

The simplest possible steam impulse turbine must consist 
essentially of a fixed nozzle guiding a jet of steam on to vanes 



72 SOME NOTES ON STEAM TUEBINBS. 

arranged at the periphery of a rotating wheel in a very similar 
way to the bucketa of the well-knowa Peltoii water wheel ; bii* 
to turn this wheel efficiently it is necessary not only to make 
the nozzle of suitable dimensions and shape for the work to be 
done, but to form the vanes or buckets of the wheel so that they 
make the best possible use of the steam as delivered from the 
nozzle. 

The function of the nozzle is to convert the whole available 
energy of the steam into mass X velocity in the required direc- 
tion. It should therefore be designed so as to expand the 
steam to the same pressure as that of the wheel chamber before 
delivery on to the vanes. If the nozzle is improperly formed, 
either the expansion will not be complete and the jet will burst 
into a cloud at the orifice, or eddy currents will be set up within 
the nozzle itself, and retardation of flow will be the result. 

To arrive at the best shape of steam nozzle, the ratio of 
expansion required should be first decided, and the. area of 
entrance, A in Fig. 2, Plate Y., should bear a relation to the 
orifice li in direct proportion to the increased volume of steam 
when expanded. 

The curve of nozzle walla is calculated to allow gradual 
expansion, until maximum velocity, due to initial pressure 
energy, is attained. 

Fig. 1, Plate V., shows an example of what is found to take 
placf* in an. incorrectly shaped nozzle'. The st^am particles 
rebound from the walls as shown by the dotted lines, and meeting 
at a, a. a, a, form points of greatest pressure. 

Turning again to Fig. 2, Plate V., if the length C is too great 
there will be retardation of flow due to the skin friction, and if 




SOME NOTES OX STEAM TURBIXEJs 73 

The most efficient mean speed of vanes is just under half 
the velocity of the steam current, thus leaving the exhausted 
molecules relatively motionless. 

For this reason single disc turbines must revolve at enormous 
speed and be geared down for driving ordinary machineiy. 
For example, a 10 inches De Laval turbine working at TO pounds 
pressure revolves 14,000 times per minute. 

Geared motors are avoided like the plague by most engineers, 
and so the multiple step steam turbine was devised as a means 
for reducing the speed of rotation and driving machinery direct. 
This idea was first developed into a marketable commodity by 
Parsons during 1884-7. 

The earliest Parsons parallel flow turbine was a collection of 
zig-zag nozzles whose walls were formed by projecting rin^s of 
blades intermeshing, and so arranged that the **zigs '' were fixed 
to the inner circumference of a stationary hollow cylinder and 
the '' zags " to the outer circumference of a rota table cylinder. 
The modern Parsons turbines from which such notably 
economical steaming results have been obtained differ from the 
earliest (apart from improvements in mechanical and construc- 
tional detail) only in the alteration of the contour of the steam 
passages or nozzles from a zig-zag to a sinuous shape. Instead 
of turning sharp comers the steam now traverses flowing curves,, 
and the cross sectional area of steam channels increases in nearly 
exact proportion to the growing volume of steam as it expands 
to the exhaust pressure, the collective areas at each stage fulfil- 
ling more closely the conditions for a perfect nozzle as previously 
mentioned. But as expansion takes place both within fixed 
and moving blades, as the whole passage is one continuous 
nozzle, the clearances and workmanship must be of the finest 
to minimise leakage, which in the earlier machines was a serious 
trouble. 

Professor Curtis, of New York, has designed large steam 
turbines which follow Parsons very closely in theory, but are 
differently worked out mechanically. 

Few revolving discs of comparatively large diameter are 
arranged and the fixed steam nozzles only play upon part of 
their periphery, in some cases only two nozzles being employed 
on the first disc. Provision is made for altering the nozzle areas 
according to load by opening or closing their tapered walls, thus 

VOL. XVIII.-1904. 6 



74 SDJIK SOTKS OS hTKAM TliEBIXES. 

io a ciM-lain exti>iit p?imittinji correct uiaiuteiiaiice of expansion 
ratios for varying steam pi-essurcs ami loads. 

Professor ('urtis argues that his arrangement of few larfre 
nozxles anil wheels in series lessens the percentage of waste 
tliniugh Mpilliug of steam. 

In oilier to reduce the revolutions per minute as far aw 
possible Mr. Parsons appears to advocate a large number of 
turhiiies in series of small diameter, while Professor Curtis 
believes in few wheels of large diameter. Apart from relative 
economy in steam roneuniption, the former appears to lend itself 
best to considerations of weight ami space, and the latter to 
cheapness and simplicity of construction. 

Professor A, Rateau, in conjunction with Messrs. Sautter, 
Harle & Co., of Paris, has worked out a multiple step impulse 
steam turbine consisting of a number of Pelton or Laval wheels. 
. with helicoid vanes, arranged in series on a shaft, each wheel re- 
vidving in a separate chamber. Distributing nozzles convey the 
steam to the wheel vanes and the whole of the expansion is accomp- 
lished within the fixed noy./.\ps. The steam leaves the chambers 
at almost the same pressui-e at which it entered, the wheel vanes 
merely receiving the impulse due to the velocity of its particles : 
there is therefore in this rase no tendency to leakage and no 
necessity for fine fits or clearance. A machine of this type baa 
been built of l,:i(IO B.H.P., and one is now in hand of l.SOtI K.H.P.. 
from which a steam consumption of 12§ pounds B.H.P. per 
hour is expected. 

The multiple expansion steam turbine shown in Fig, 4, Plate 
VI., was ilesigned and made fur ex i«'ri mental purposes some three 
years agi), and since that lime has Wen caivtully tested under 




SOME NOTES ON STEAM TURBIXES. iO 

are cut into the inner faces of these wheels, and the walls of the 
cells form curvetl vanes. Kach wheel revolves in a separate 
chamber. Steam at 75 pounds' pressure absolute is admitted 
to the centre cham])er B (which contains no wheel) and is thence 
conducted to the vanes of the first wheel by four diagonal nozzles 
pierced throuj^^h the partition V. These nozzles are shown in 
fhe J cross section X» X (Fig. •">, Plate VII.), and also in the 
developed section of nozzles and wheel. The curved vanes as 
nearly as possible reverse the direction of the jet, and the steam 
being pasBin) over the outer periphery remains compaiativelj^ 
motionless in chamber 1. Similai' but slightly large nozzles 
guide the steam on to the wheel in chamber 2, and so on until 
Xo. 7 is reachetl, when a passage, 1), of ample area conducts the 
flow to chamber Xo. 7 A, which, like chamber B, contains no 
wheel. It should here l)e noied thai i)a]lition K is blank. From 
No. 7 A to Xo. 14 the steam expands by ecjual steps to the exhaust 
F, the collective nozzle areas being so arranged that each wheel 
-does an e(jual share of work. Steam gauge connections to each 
chamber were provided and the pressure diifei^ences lecorded. 
Each nozzle in each partition was tapered and formed to comply 
with the conditions just mentioned as far as possible. 

End packing and isolation of chambers was effected by means 
of floating packing rings of more or less L section. 

These rings fitted well but freely (m the shaft and were held 
against faces by the steam presume. AVhen running, it was 
found that thev did not revolve with the shaft but remained 
stationary, floating on an extremely thin layer of steam between 
ring and shaft. X^o int^^rnal lubrication was necessary (an 
important point for ccmdensers and boilers) and no wear was 
apparent on rings or shaft. A wheel, ring and partition plat-e 
which have been in use for some time are now on the table. 
This machine ran well at 5,000 K.P.M. and was veiy fairly 
economical in steam consumption, especially with super-heat. 

The sec<»nd machine shown on Fig. (I, Plate VIII., is a leveis- 
ible motor. It reverseel from 4,000 K.P.M ahead to 4,000 K.P.M. 
astern in five seconds, giving 75 ])er <'ent. power astern with the 
same steam pressure. 

In this case two oppositely inclined sets of nozzles are ])iercexl 
ill each chamber wall, the ** go ahead " set jdaying on the 
most <»ificient side of the whi^el vanes. 



76 SOME NOTES ON 5TEAU TUBBINES, 

If equal reversing power were desired the astern nozzles 
might have some 2-f) per cent, more area. In front of each 
partition a very thin circular valve is arranged, containing ports 
corresponding to the no^izle entrances. These valves can be 
rotated through a small angle by means of a weigh shaft and 
lever. In the J cross section (Fig. 7, Plate IX.) the lever is shown 
with the valves in the "go ahead" position, the "go astern" 
ports being closed. When the valves are in the central position 
the small hole C is thrown open for draining and warming up 
purposes, also to prevent excessive accumulation of pressure in 
front to the first partition. 

The last figure (Fig. 8, Plate X.) shows an arrangement of 
ball bearing which was used successfully up to 7,000 Il.P.M. A 
is rubber which absorbs the small vibration and allows the shaft 
to rotate in its true centre of gyration, which hardly ever corre- 
sponds with its geometrical centre on account of small inaccu- 
racies of balance. I do not, however, particularly recommend 
these for general use, as it is so difiicult to get really hard steel 
balls and races. 

The reversing valve mechanism described lends itself to 
modification. 

The same valve might be utilised for closing one or more 
noz/les in each partition plate at pleasure, thus altering the 
collective nozzle areas in use, and by maintaining correct 
expansion ratios permit the turbine to work at different spee<lB 
and pressures at its highest economy. This would be an impoi-t- 
ant consideration for torpedo boat destroyers, cruisers, and other 
vessels ivhich make long runs at half or quarter power. 

Thus the engines of a ship which worked full power at 200 




PEOCEEDINGS. 77 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



THE ANNUAL DINNER. 

The anaual Institution dinner was held in the Assembly 
Booms, Westgate Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, on the evening of 
Thursday, January 30th, the President, Henry Withy, Esq., J. P., 
ia the chair. The President was supported by Mr. Charles 
Dorman (Messrs. Dorman, Long & Co., Limited); Mr. J. R. 
Fletcher (Local President of the Institute of Civil Engineers); 
Aid. W. Boyd (Mayor of Wallsend), Mr. Wigham Richardson, 
aad Sir Benjamin C. Browne (the three latter gentlemen being 
Past-Presidents of the North-East Coast Institution) ; Mr. W. 
Jamieson (Messrs. Dorman, Long & Co., Limited) ; Mr. John 
Oravell (Bureau Veritas) ; Mr. J. Robley (President of the Fore- 
men Engineers Association) ; Fleet Engineer R. W. Edwards, 
R.X., Mr. J. R. Fothergill, Mr. H. Fownes, Mr. Summers 
Hunter, Mr. J. M. Rennoldson, Mr. A. G. Schaeffer (the five 
latter gentlemen being Vice-Presidents of the Institution) ; Mr. 
Holand Philipson, Mr. G. E. Macarthy (Hon. Treasurer), Mr. 
John Duckitt (Secretary) and others to the number of about 180. 

The following invited guests were unable to attend : — The 
Mayor of Newcastle, the Sheriff of Newcastle, The Lord Bishop of 
-^^wcastle, the Earl of Durham, Bishop Hornley, Sir A. J. 
Durston, Mr. W. R. Plummer, M.P., Mr. G. Renwick, M.P., 
principal Gumey (Durham College of Science), Mr. J. T. Milton 
(I^loyds Register), Mr. TV. T. Courtier-Dutton (British Corpora- 
hoa Register), Mr. TV. H. Panton (Messrs. Dorman, Long & Co.), 
Hr. Hugh Bell and Col. C. L. Bell (Messrs. Bell Brothei-s), the 

VOL. XVIII.-1901. 7 



i: 



78 PB0C£EDING8. 

President of the Institute of Naval Arckitecte, tlie President of 
the Institute of Engineers and Shipbuilders in Scotland, the 
Preaideut of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, the Presi- 
dent of the Institute of Marine Engineers in London, Dr. Mere, 
Dr. T. Hodgkin, and Mr. B. Plummer (Secretary of Newcastle 
Chamber of Commerce), 

An excellent repast was purveyed by Messrs A. H. Higgin- 
bottom & Co., and during the evening Mr. Robert Smith's Royal 
Orchestra discoursed a very pleasing selection of music. 

After dinner a short toast list was submitted. 

The PRESibEST said — Gentlemen, — It is my pleasing duty to 
give you the first toast of the evening, that of " His Most Gracious 
Majesty the King, Queen Alexandra, and the rest of the Royal 
Family." In a loyal and patriotic town like Newcastle it is not 
necessary for me to dilate upon the excellences of the King and 
the Royal Family. I will content myself with giving you the 
toast at once — " The King, the Queen and Royal Family." 

The toast was loyally honoured. 

Mr. Chahlks Doem.w said— Mr. President and gentlemen, — A 
great honour and a great pleasure devolves upon me to-night. I 
must admit at the same time it is tinged with a slight regret, 
perhaps with a great regret, tbat this honour has not fallen upon 
much abler shoulders than my own. The pleasant task I have to 
perform to-night is to propose the toast of " The North-East Coast 




PEOCEEDINGS> 79 

the whole world, that there i8 no need for me to say anything 
i^bout him. In the summer time you did the Company of 
which I am a member the honour of looking over our works. 
I hope you will come again. The only fault I have to find with 
you is that you did not bring Mr. Withy with you on that occasion. 
I hope the next time you come you will bring him with you. 
Since you visited our works in the summer time the employers of 
labour in this country, owing to their reluctance to tackle two 
of the most interesting problems of the day, that is to say, labour 
and railway rates (and now I think about it I may say that if 
there are any friends or ofiicials of the railway companies here, 
and the President tells me that the railway companies have no 
friends, but I do not believe him — if there are any of their friends 
here I do not wish anything I may say in the remarks I am going 
to make about the railway company to be taken amiss ; I am 
simply guided by a desire, to the be&t of my ability, to repel the 
foreign invader from these shores as far as iron and steel manu- 
facture is concerned),- -well, since you came to our works in the 
summer time the employers of labour have been, gradually, one 
after the other, diving into some morass of depression. If they 
would only combine and help one another then they would be able 
to force their way through this morass with no other damage to 
themselves than a financial " wash and brush-up " to put matters 
right ; but if they will not combine and help one another, then it 
will be many years before they finally emerge from this morass, 
and when they do emerge they will be in a terrible state of debility. 
They will be in a state of constitutional decay, and not only that, 
but they will be in a state of commercial decay. All these evils 
— labour especially, and railway rates — can be overcome by effec- 
tive combination and resolution, and they will be overcome all 
the more readily if the employers of labour will realize that the 
railway directors, and the working men of this country are not 
the intractable and unapproachable ogres and barbarous monsters 
they are commonly supposed to be, but falsely supposed to be, 
in the popular estimation, but merely intelligent human beings. 
Mr. William Garret did me the honour of criticising some remarks 
I made in a speech to the officials and men of the firm of Dorman, 
Long & Co. in December last when they very kindly entertained 
me to a dinner after my return from the United States of America. 
The remark he chiefly caught on to was that in America the 



*0 PEOCEEDINGS. 

working men are more iDtelligent than they are in England, from 
which, he Baid, he entirely disagreed. Then he went on to aa; 
that in America he found the best workmen to be the Englishmen. 
What I wish to point out to Mr. Garret is that an Englishman in 
America and an English working man in England are two very 
different people. In America an English working man has every 
inducement offered him to bring into play that keen inteUigence 
with which every Englishman is bom — the conditions there are 
entirely different — whereas in England he is only too apt to allow 
that quality to lie dormant under the fostering care of some union 
or other which does not encourage individual merit. That was 
the meaning I intended my remark about intelligence to bear. 
I myself have no quarrel with the British working man. I know 
the British working man, and I know him to be a thoroughly good 
fellow, and the soonpr employers of labour in this country realize 
that fact, and the sooner unions cease to discourage individual 
merit the sooner shall we arrive at that stage of co-operation 
between masters and men, without which works cannot be satis- 
factorily conducted. This combination will be equally effective 
in dealing with railway companies. I do not know whether 
many of you gentlemen have been reading, of late, a paper called 
The Statixt, but during the last few months Tht Statist has pub- 
lished a series of articles about the big English railway companies, 
and if you have read it you will have seen, according to the figures 
they publish, that the Xnrth-Eastem Railway charge 29 per cent, 
more per ton per mile for their mineral rates than do any other 
railway company. Xot only this, but they charge less for their 
passenger traffic than do any other railway company. I do not 
object at all to low passenger rates— in fact, I admit they are a 
■eat blessing to the public^ — but if w-e in this district are to have 




PEOCEEDINGS. 8T 

to you about means on the cost of pig iron at least 28. 6d. a ton, 
and 28. 6d. a ton means a great thing to engineers and shipbuilders. 
You must admit that although engineers and shipbuilders are 
very superior people, yet they have to deal with iron and steel. 
If you ask me why it is that the people chiefly interested in this- 
matter have not taken it up before — the people chiefly interested 
are the colliery owners, the mine owners, the blast-furnace owners, 
and the owners of steel rolling mills — the only reason I can 
assign is that in the past they have been too prosperous ; they have 
been too large-hearted ; they have not minded. They have rested 
in a state of lethargic ease. I have a kind of recollection of 
reading in the Bible about the people of some tribe who " waxed 
fat and kicked.'' W^U, the blast-furnace owners have certainly 
waxed fat in the past, but they have not yet kicked. But when 
they do kick, although their evolutions may not be particularly 
graceful, they will be quite effective. At present they prefer to 
adopt the role of the Sleeping Beauty. They are waiting for the 
awakening kiss of some bold prince. When this prince does 
come I am convinced he will be either an engineering or a ship- 
building prince. Perhaps he may come from Newcastle. Well, 
gentlemen, prince or no prince, we all of us must combine and try 
to induce the railway company to reduce their mineral rates, 
which at the present moment are so exorbitant. I feel satisfied 
that if we approached the company in a proper way the directors 
would see fit to reduce their rates to those charged by other com- 
panies, and that is all I ask they should do. But should they 
not do so, then we must take counsel with one another as to what 
we should do. We have a precedent to fall back upon. Once 
upon a time, about 250 years ago, there lived a man who, like the 
railway company, was a great power in the land. His name was 
King Charles the First. He, also, like the railway company, 
charged exorbitant rates. They wei"e not railway rates, but they 
were tonnage and poundage rates. And the people asked him to 
reduce these charges, but he would not, so they combined together 
and they cut off his head. I do not wish to complete the parable. 
I hope it will be unnecessary for me to take any such tragic steps. 
I am convinced the railway directors are too magnanimous to 
render that necessary, but we must see that our axe is sharp — an 
axe wrought by pious determination and just reason, for the rail- 
way company have a stiff neck and the operation of severance might 



82 PKOCEEDISGS, 

be more exhausting than it waa in the case of that other extor- 
tionate magnate. If thia country has maJe up its mind to do a 
thing nothing will stop it — not even railway companies. Every 
obstacle will be swept to one aide or the other and railway com- 
panies will find it is more to their advantage to fall in with the van 
than to follow in the ruck whilat the nation marches to com- 
mercial victory. As you all know, in the years 1897 and 1898 
the North -Eaat Coast Enj^ineers saved themselves, to their 
immortal glory, by their own example. I only hope in 1903 they 
will save the rest of England by their example. Gentlemen, I 
give you the toast of " The North-East Coast Institution of 
Engineers and Shipbuilders." coupled with the name of the Presi- 
dent, Mr. Withy. 

The toast was cordially honoured, three cheers being given for 
the Institution. 

The PEEstDENT, who was received with cheering on rising to 
respond, aaid — Mr. Dorman and gentlemen,— It is a proud 
privilege of mine to reply this evening on behalf of the North- 
East Coast Institution. I must thank Mr. Dorman for his all 
too flattering remarks. The Institution which I have the honour 
to preside over is one that embraces those engaged in practically 
all the tradea in connection with engineering and shipbuilding. 
We have members from the extreme south to the extreme 
north and from east and west and from foreign parts as well. 
The Transactions of our Inatitution are getting more valuable year 
by year, and I feel convinced that the papers that we have before 
ua ia our records will be valued for a long time to come. Perhaps 




PKOCEEDINGS. 83 

other excursions of a similar nature this year. The Institution of 
Mechanical Engineers propose to hold their summer meeting in 
Newcastle this year, and I am sure Newcastle will elect a repre- 
sentative committee who will give them a very hearty welcome, 
and certainly our Institution must be well represented upon that 
committee. As an Institution we have been in existence since 
1884. Eight Presidents have preceded me, and I am exceedingly 
glad to say that all our Past-Presidents are yet living and well. 
Although we are an Institution only eighteen years old I think 
we may congratulate ourselves upon that point. I would also 
like to congratulate your friend and my friend Mr. Robert Thomp- 
son, one of our Past-Presidents, on being elected to sit on Lloyds 
Committee. He has sat on the sub-committee for a numbet 
of years — twelve years I think — and I am sure his elevation to 
the General Committee will meet with everybody's approval. 
Mr. Dorman has given us his views upon railway rates. I can 
heartily endorse what he says. Any reduction we can get from 
the railway company we are most delighted to take. We all 
feel that; but I want to speak rather about steamers. I was 
looking through a report of the number of passengers carried on 
various steamship lines, and I was very much surprised to find 
that the North German Lloyd and the Hamburg-America Com- 
panies each carried nearly twice as many passengers as the White 
Star line. This is due partly to the speed of the new ships and 
partly to the geographical position of Germany ; but takin,^ the 
first and second class passengers only, the number carried by the 
White Star line is very nearly the same as the number carried 
by the Hamburg-America line and the North German Lloyd, 
although the sailings of the two latter lines greatly exceed the 
White Star sailings. If we take the first saloon only the average 
number of passengers carried out and home by the White Star 
line is 162 per trip, for the Hamburg-America line 116 and the 
North German Lloyd 115 per trip. These figures shew 
that the White Star boats are very popular. I think it 
has been proved that the running of these very large and fast 
steamers is not entirelv a commercial success, and I think it 
behoves our government to consider very seriously whether it is 
not their duty to subsidize to a certain extent some of the larger 
companies so that they may run faster steamers than are now 
running on the Atlantic service. You will know that the govern- 



84 PROCEEDINGS. 

ment have a claim upon certain of the faster steamers that are 
running to be used as armed cruisers. Now if these boats run- 
ning twenty and twenty-one knots are used as armed cruisers, of 
what Talue are they against boats that can cross the Atlantic at 
twenty-three knots, and do it regulaxly, voyage after voyage? 
I think we ought to have a service of larg^e steamers running at 
least twenty-four knots, all of them fit to be used as armed cruisers, 
and that whatever subsidy is necessary to enable the companies to 
do this should be cheerfully paid out of the Imperial revenue. I 
do not want to detain you longer, because I feel sure you 
appreciate very much the privilege of leaving your seats and 
going about the room and talking to your friends: but I want 
to impress upon the younger members of the Institution that the 
futui-e success of the Institution depends more upon them than it 
does upon those who are not, perhaps, quite into " the sere and 
yellow leaf," but who have passed the middle age. We as an 
Institution feel the graduate section is one that deserves every 
encouragement, and we hope the younger members will be 
assiduous in reading papers and paying attention to the develop- 
ment of the Institution. If the younger members do not do thia 
the Institution must fail. I thank you very much, gentlemen. 

Mr. M'ltiiiAM RiciHRD.soN proposed "Kindred Institutions." 
He said — Mr. President and gentlemen, — The toast that has been 
entrusted to me, namely, the health of the kindred societies, is one 
that it gives me veiy great pleasure to propose. I feel that to 
be a member of a learned society like this is a privilege in a great 
many ways. Vi'e all of us know the social side of the question. 
In the year that has just passed we have been at the works 




PROCEEDINGS. 85 

economy, and there is one thought in connection with that that 
has occurred to me. We have had recently in this city a visit 
from a very eminent political economist, Professor Shield Nichol- 
son, Professor of Political Economy in the University of Edin- 
burgh, and the author of a great work on the principles of political 
economy. We have also, most of us, read the astounding figures 
which Robert Giffen every now and again lays before the British 
public. He compiles millions upon millions in the accumulated 
wealth of the country. But Professor Shield Nicholson pointed 
out that the inherent skill, and the accumulated scientific know- 
ledge which is the heritage of the people of England is, as part of 
the asset of that enormous accumulated capital, by far and away 
the largest, more important even than the land of ihe country. 
It is more important than the land even if you add the buildings on 
the land, all the industi'ial enterprises, harbours, and railways, and 
all the stock in the country. That knowledge and that skill is a 
more important asset in our accumulated capital than all those 
things put together, and that inherent knowledge and skill is 
very much developed and made prominent by the action of our 
own and kindred societies. I will not detain you longer, but I 
will couple the toast with the name of my friend Mr. Fletcher, 
who represents what may be called the parent Society, at any rate 
in this country, and I ask you to drink the health of the kindred 
societies, coupled with his name. 

The toast was cordially honoured. 

Mr. J. R. Fletcher said — ^Mr. President, Mr. Wighani Rich- 
ardson, and gentlemen, — I have the honour to-night to reply to 
the toast you have so kindly drank — the Institution of Civil 
Engineers — ^the oldest, largest, and most influential engineering 
society in the world. Amongst its members must be included all 
the eminent engineers in this country. Amongst its Presidents 
are many famous names, and I am glad to say that Tyneside pro- 
vided some of them — the names of Robert Stephenson, Mr. T. E. 
Harrison, Sir George Barclay Bruce, who are all local men, and 
the present President, Mr. Charles Hawksley, who follows his 
father after about 27 years as President of the Institution, although 
not a Tynesider, has been so much identified with the water works 
of Newcastle that I think if we cannot claim him as a Tynesider we 



«fa rsOCEEDlNGS. 

can at any rate claim him as an acquaintance and as a friend. 
The Society also embraces engineers of every claaa. AVhat are 
called civil engineers proper are more connected with the making 
of large works such as railways, docks, and harbours ; but mining 
engineers, mechanical engineers and shipbuilders, sanitary engin- 
eers, electrical engineers and all the different classes of engineers 
are associated with the parent society. They are all now forming 
Associations of their own, but still they are not leaving the Institute 
nor losing their interest in it, and amongst the members of your 
own Institution there are many who are well-known members of 
the Institute in London. About 12 years ago the Institute pro- 
posed to form Local Associations, which they fortunately, and 
rightly I think, placed under the nominal care of the students of 
the Institute. There are five Students' Associations, namely, in 
Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow and Newcastle, and 
they are all flourishing to-day. The Members of the parent 
Institute who are located in the district are all affiliated with these, 
and I think they derive more benefit from them than the 
students themselves. Their papers are interesting, and their visits 
to various works are more interesting. I would like to take this 
opportunity of thanking those members of your Institution who 
have BO kindly shown the Students and their friends over their 
works and entertained them so hospitably. In preparing a paper 
on the development of railways in Northumberiand and Durham 
there was one point which struck me very forcibly, and I think it 
is a point that will interest you. It was the important and fore- 
most place that coal has taken in everything connected with 
engineering in this district. The working and distribution of 
it has not only been the initiative of invention, but it has supplied 




PROCEEDINGS. 87 

Northumberland and Durham. Then again, coal comes in in con- 
nection with the locomotive. All the early locomotives invented 
were for the purpose of conveying coal cheaply to the ports, and 
nearly all the early railways were made for the same purpose, and 
there is one curious fact in regard to the opening of these railways, 
that the first thing they did was to run a train of coals to their new 
drops for shipment. I think you will agree with me that 
coal has a great deal to do with your own Institution, for without 
coal you would not be able to get your iron or steel, and without 
the transport of coal a great many of your ships would not 
require to be built. In fact, if it had not been for coal the North- 
East Coast engineers would not have been in existence. If 
it was not for coal at the present time you could not exist, and 
you had better make hay while the sun shines, for when 
the coal is all done I am afraid your annual dinner will not be 
held on the banks of the coaly Tyne. I thank you very kindly for 
the way in which you have coupled my name with the toast. 

Sir Benjamin C. Browne proposed the toast of ** Our Visitors.'' 
He said — Mr. President and gentlemen, — I feel that whoever 
drew up this toast list drew it up on what we call the standard 
scale. First ** The Institution," which has had a real value in 
bringing together the people whose friendly criticism has had a 
material effect in increasing the prosperity of the district. But 
we go further. It brings in other Institutions which we recog- 
nised in the last toast, and I am exceedingly glad, that we are to 
have a visit this year from ihe> Institution of Mechanical Engineers. 
There is no doubt whatever these interchanges all tend to improve 
us a great deal. The great Mr. Beyer of Messrs. Beyer and 
Peacock's, used to say it is all very well to be able to scheme and 
invent, but the head trick was to find out what other people were 
dicing, because invention only gave you your own head, but when 
you found out what other people were doing it gave you the advan- 
tage of the brains of all the rest. Then comes the toast of ** Our 
Visitors," and I have to couple with this toast the name of one 
whose sympathy and kindly criticism has done a great deal to 
keep up the standard of our work, for depend upon it there is no 
dearer friend to manufacturers than the wise inspector — the man 
who sees a high standard kept up, and who won't let us produce 
any article which won't hold its own in the world. If we turn 



88 PROCEEDINGS, 

out a high-class article in this district I believe it is very much 
owing to those who have to criticise and challeoge the work we 
have to do. I have, therefore, to propose this toast coupled with 
the name of Mr. John Oravell. 

The toast was very cordially received, 

Mr. JoHS Gravell responded, and said — Mr. Chairman, Sir 
Benjamin Browne, "and gentlemen, — It is not by any means an 
easy thing for a man, without having the experience of being a 
speaker, to be able to answer to such a toast and give expression 
exactly to the feelings he has in him ; but I thank you for the 
great hospitality you have always shown to all your guests. Every 
time we have come to these meetings. we have had a good and an 
able man to answer this toast, and I am very sorry that I am not 
able to give you such a treat as you had last time. You have to- 
night amongst your guests a gentleman who, I think, would have 
done honour to this toast very much better than I can— I mean 
Fleet Engineer Edwards, who was Fleet Engineer of H.M.S. 
" Powerful " when Captain Lambton, a name well-known in this 
neighbourhood, landed the guns for Ladysmith. Those guns prac- 
tically saved Ladysmith to us. Mr. Edwards sent a large stafi and 
material up to La^lyamith, and his staff were able not only to look 
after the guns and re-mount and repair them, as necessary, but to 
construct distilling condensers for supplying the troops with fresh 
water, which materially assisted in preserving the health of the 
garrison during the pi-olonged period of the siege. We are very 
proud to have such a gentleman here to-night as one of the guests. 
I feel quite sure that Mr. Edwards would have been able to give you 




PROCEEDINGS. 89 

Aid. W. Boyd, Mayor of Wallsend, proposed the health of 
*' The Dinner Committee " — Mr. J. R. Fothergill (chairman), Mr. 
R. Thompson, Mr. H. Fownes, Mr. A. G. Schaeffer, and Mr. J. 
Duckitt (secretary). He said — Mr. President and gentlemen, — 
Although this is not regarded precisely as the toast of the evening, 
still I may be permitted to designate it in the old phraseology of 
*' grace after meat." I think that the thanks of all who are present 
here this evening are due to Mr. Fothergill and the Dinner Com- 
mittee for the very excellent dinner which they have given us 
to-night, and for the exertions and efforts they have made to pro- 
vide us with a very agreeable evening. Perhaps the toast itself 
does not afford much scope for occupying your time, and indeed it 
is one of the characteristics of these gatherings that the toast list 
should be small and the speeches should be short ; but there is one 
idea which is in my mind to-night to which this toast leads up, and 
perhaps I may be excused for one moment in calling your atten- 
tion to it. Mr. Fothergill is a representative of this Institution, 
not in Newcastle, but further down the coast, and the President 
to-night is not a representative of Newcastle, but also hails from 
further down the Xorth-East Coast. And I well remember some 
16 or 17 years ago, when we were discussing the title of this 
Institution, it was strongly urged by my friend Mr. F. C. Marshall, 
of the firm of Messrs. Hawthorn, Leslie, & Co., that this was not to 
be a Newcastle Institution ; it was not to be a Northumberland 
Institution ; it was not even to be a Northumberland and Durham 
Institution, but it was to be an Institution representing the whole 
of the North-East Coast. "And that primary principle which was 
established in those days has, I am glad and thankful to say, been 
carried out for the nearly 20 years during which this Institution 
has been in existence, and I believe that it represents the strength 
of the body which is gathered here to-night. That is to say, that 
although we may be local in the sense of being members of the 
North-East Coast we are not local in the sense that our member- 
ship is confined to any one single county or to any one particular 
district. We have had a very able speech to-night from what we 
Northumbrians would call a south countryman, down in Yorkshire 
somewhere, and that is an evidence that the principle that we 
established in those days was a sound and correct one, and that 
principle is no more strongly exemplified than in the person of 
the individual with whom I am pennitted to couple this toast^ — 



90 I'KOCEEUIXGS. 

our friend Mr. Fothergill — & gentlemaa not only pre-eminent on 
these social occasions, whether it be a visit to Sheffield, or a visit 
to Cardiff, but Mr. Fothergill haa not only the qualiflcations which 
make him most welcome and most pre-eminent in all social gather- 
ings, but he has qualifications which render him no less an import- 
ant member, and no less an acceptable member, in the scieatifie 
discussions in our meetings when technical questions are dis- 
cussed. Mr. Fothergill, as Vice-President of this Institution, 
has rendered most valuable and serviceable assistance in many 
ways, and I have very much pleasure in coupling his name with 
this toast as representing the Dinner Committee, and of which, I 
perhaps may be pardoned for adding, no unworthy member is our 
Secretary, Mr. Duckitt. 

The toast was heartily honoured. 

Mr. J. R. Fothergill, in reply said — Mr. President, Mr. 
Boyd and gentlemen, — On behalf of the Dinner Committee, I 
thank you most deeply for the manner in which you have received 
the interesting, kind, and gracious remarks that Mr. Boyd has 
thought fit to make. The remarks made in reference to myself 
are so flattering that if I were not an engineer i should blush. 
The Committee, as I think you may well realize, have done their 
best to make this evening an agreeable one to you all, and if there 
are faults which in a dinner of this description occasionally occur, 
I think that the Dinner Commitfee may feel themselves some- 
what exonerated from blame. In ref?rence to Mr. Boyd, whom 
the President had so truly said was the father of this Institution, 
I am sure you will all. with me, congratulate him on being 
nominii)t-il as thi' first Mayor uf Wullsend. The C'oi 




PROCEEDINGS. 91 

Institution, Mr. Bobert Thompson. We all hope he will be well 
enough to be with us on the next occasion. Gentlemen, on behalf 
of the Committee, I again deeply thank you for the way in which 
you have received the toast so graciously proposed by our own 
Past-President, Mr. Boyd. 

This concluded the toast list, and the remainder of the evening 
was spent by the members in sociable intercourse. 



PUOCEEDINGS. 93 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



SPECIAL MEETING OF THE INSTITUTION, HELD IN THE LECTURE 
HALL OF THE LITERARY AND PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, 
NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, ON FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 
7tii, 1902. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J.P., Pbesident, in the Chair. 



The Secretary' read the notice convening the meeting, as 
follows : — " A Special Meeting of the Institution will be held in 
the Lecture Hall of the Literary and Philosophical Society, West- 
gate Hoad, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, on February 7th, 1902, at 7*30 
p.m., when a paper by Mr. D. B. Morison, Vice-President, will be 
read on "Report on Memorandum submitted to the First Lord 
of the Admiralty on the 16th day of July, 1901, with reference to 
the present unsatisfactory condition of the Engineer Branch of 
H.M. Xavy." 

The President — As the business of this meeting is specially 
to hear a paper read by Mr. D. B. Morison, one of our Vice-Presi- 
dents, I will at once call upon him to read the paper. 

VOL. xvm-uwL 8 



THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 95 



REPORT ON MEMORANDUM SUBMITTED TO THE 
FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY ON THE 16th 
DAY OF JULY, 1901, WITH REFERENCE TO THE 
PRESENT UNSATISFACTORY CONDITION OF THE 
ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 



By D. B. MORISON, Vice-President. 



[Read before the Institution in Newcastle-upon-tyne, on 

February 7th, 1902.] 



Since I submitted my first paper on the British Naval 
Engineer to the menibei-s of this Institution, it has been very 
fully discussed by the Institutes of Marine Engineers in London 
and Cardiff. I have also read a paper on the same subject before 
the Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders in Scotland, which 
forms Appendix A to my present contribution. (See page 125.) 

It was originally intended to lay the views of the Institutions 
directly before the First Lord of the Admiralty, but, in July of 
last year, a deputation of Members of Parliament was formed by 
Sir Fortescue Flannery, which representatives of the Institutions 
were invited to join. A full report of this deputation, together 
with the Memorandum submitted by the Institutions, is appended 
to this paper. (See Appendices B and C, pages 139 and 140.) 

The centre of interest, in the report of the deputation, natur- 
ally lies in the reply of the First Lord of the Admiralty, and 
unhappily his expressed opinions on the grave questions at issue, 
relating to the engineering personnel, differ so materially from 
those of the members of the marine engineering institutions, 
that the latter would appear to have no alternative but to vigor- 
ously and persistently continue to prosecute their advocacy of 
the drastic reforms which they know to be necessary. 

The position is clear and definite. On the one side stands 
the Board of Admiralty, not one member of which has any 
engineering experience whatever, and upon which the Service is 



96 THE ENGINEER BBANCH OF H.U. NAVY. 

represented exclusively by executive officers of iiigh rank, whose 
traditional attitude towards the engineering personnel has ever 
been unsympathetic and repressive. On the other side, we find the 
united expert opinion of the naval engineer officers themselves, 
and the marine engineering institutions, which include among 
their members men of the highest attainments aa directors and 
managers of shipyards and engineering works, designers, con- 
structors, consulting engineers, and superintendents of the mer- 
cantile marine, who are undeniably competent to arrive at correct 
conclusions regarding the questions at issue. The attitude of 
the Board of Admiralty, and the inspired utterances of its official 
representatives, would imply a belief that the position, with 
regard to the engineering personnel, is perfectly safe and satis- 
factory, but it is the firm conviction of the naval and mercantile 
marine engineei-s that the existing position is, on the contrary, 
eminently unsatisfactory and dangerous. 

V NUERUANNISQ. 

The general question of undermanning was fully dealt with 
in my last paper, and the contention that the engine-room ratings 
are inadequate in numbers, skill, and experience, was amply con- 
iirraed by discussion in the various centres throughout the king- 
dom. It is, therefore, unnecessary to set forth many more 
examples, but it is important to note the glaring oases of H.il.S. 
" Hannibal " and " Repulse," belonging (o the Channel Squad- 
ron (which we are led to believe is at all times prepared for war). 
In the ■' Hannibal," which has 12,0011 I.H.P., there are, as per 
Navy List of the current quarter : — 



1 Fleet Engineer. 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 97 

The fleet engineer is in neither case supported by officers of 
adequate seniority and experience; the entire staff of engineer 
officers below the fleet engineer is composed of young men, whose 
experience and importance are considered to be so limited that 
until they attain six years' sea service they rank with sub- 
lieutenants and mess in the gun-room, where their juvenile sur- 
roundings cannot be conducive to their appreciation of the serious 
responsibilities which they are called upon to undertake. If the 
fleet engineer be incapacitated, the entire responsibility for the 
engine-room dep>artment of the first class battleship '* Repulse" 
devolves upon six youngsters, the eldest of whom is about 
twenty-six, whilst of the remainder three are about twenty-one 
years of age. It should also be noted that it is frequently 
the case that ** direct entry " or " temporary sei'vice " assistant 
engineers see a mai'ine engine for the first time when they enter 
the warship to which they are appointed. There are of course 
several engine-room artificers, but, notwithstanding the fact that 
they are in many cases first class mechanics and admirable all- 
round men, they are not responsible officers, and responsibility, 
with capacity for bearing it, are the principal factors in this 
question. Admiral Melville, the Engineer- in-Chief of the United 
States Navy, in his annual report, makes the following pertinent 
remarks on the influence of lack of experience on naval 
efficiency : — 

Without detracting, therefore, from the merits and capabilities of the 
warrant machinists, they are not altogether fitted by previous training or 
experience to take charge of an important department of the ship. 

As a result of the inadequate supervision in the engine-rooms there has 
been a perceptible decrease in the efficiency of the machinery, and a pro- 
gressive increase in the cost of repairs. Definite data upon this question 
are difficult to secure, since this retrogression is progressive in character 
and the full extent of the evil cannot be determined without searching in- 
vestigation. The condition of the machinery of the torpedo boat flotilla shows 
the trend of affairs. 

During the past year the disablement of torpedo boats has been of such 
frequent occurrence that the majority of the boats have been under repair a 
great part of the time. Many of these mishaps are serious in character, 
and the present condition of the flotilla affords an incontrovertible argument 
in favour of the proposition that practical engineering ability of high order 
is required for their successful care and operation. In my opinion the 
machinery of the torpedo boat craft would not be in its present deplorable 
condition if engineer officers of experience had been detailed for supervisory 
dutv in connection with the boats. 

m 

It is strikingly significant that the decrease in machinery efficiency has 



98 THE £NGIKE£E BAANCH OF H.M. NATY. 

been most roarlced in the case of torpedo boats. With this type of craft it 
has been attempted t« practically maintain the machinery in operation with- 
out the Bupeiriaion of trained engineer officers. With such a system in 
operation it is not surprising' that inefficiency should be the rule. Upon 
official trials the builders of such boats find it necessary to fill the engine-rooms 
with supervising engineers of ability and experience, who command bigb 
Halaries. After sucli boat« are turned over to the Government it cannot be 
expected that an iniufGcient and unskilled force will be capable of operating 
them. The depreciation of the boats will take place at a rapid rate if 
either an inadequate or inefficient personnel is to be entrusted with their 
care and maintenance. 

That efficiency beneath the protective deck is no less important in naval 
warfare than efficiency above it cannot be doubted. The boiler plant is the 
heart of the vessel, and any weakness in that direction will be followed by 
general decline everywhere else. The difference between an efficient and 
inefficient force on board a warship was shown at the battle of Santiago. The 
crowning act of that victory was the overtaking of the "' Colon " by the 
" Oregon." In this chase a battleship of 16 knots speed, manned by an 
efficient engine-room force, overtook a 20 knot armoured cruiser whose motive 
power was inefficiently handled, sinoe only about one-half the boiler power 
was developed on board the " Colon " that could have been secured by a skilled 
force of mechanics and firemen directed by a trained and educated com- 
plement of engineer officers. 

Although Admiral Melville severely condemns the practice 
of putting warrant engineer officers in full chaise of machinery, 
the fact that he is fully alive to their importance and value is 
clearly shown by the following recommendation : — 

That the warrant niachiniata be placed upon the same footing, as regards 
pay and rank and emoluments, as other warrant oflicerB. In some respects 
the warrant machiniste are discriminated against, and ao long as this distinc- 
ticm exists they will have a grievance which must interfere with the efficiency 
of the engine-room force. Every avenue to promotion and increase of 
pay that is accorded other warrant officers should be given warrant machinista. 
The responsibility and character of the duty that rests upon this claas of officers 
mportant as that devolving upon sailmakers, carpenters, boatswains, and 




THE ENGIKEEB BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 99 

^' warrant '* rank. One reason of this decrease in the standard 
of experience is that, when the warrant rank for artificers was 
introduced, the old rates of pay obtained; but the reduction in 
the rates of " charge pay '* made last year, renders promotion 
much less attractive, and consequently the senior artificers evince 
no great desire to accept it. 

The undermanning in stoker ratings is notorious, and in the 
Mediterranean Squadron recently, during full-power trials, the 
stoker ratings were largely augmented by deck hands. To quote 
actual figures, however, there was in June, 1901, a total deficiency 
of 700 stoker ratings in the reserves and depots, even on the 
Admiralty attenuated basis, whilst in December this number 
was largely exceeded, and in addition there was a considerable 
shortage of artificers. When the cruisers "Diadem" and 
"Niobe " were ordered to escort the '* Ophir," in order to ensure 
their continuous steaming, about 48 stokers were added to the 
complements of each ship, and as their normal complement is 
110, this represented an increase of 43 per cent. Extra engineer 
officers were also appointed. When additions are made in this 
manner, the official explanation frequently given is that the men 
are lent for training purposes, but experience has shown that, 
for continuous high speed steaming, these additions are absolutely 
necessary. The very important question therefore arises as to 
how they are to be found in time of war. 

Viewed merely from a commercial standpoint, undermanning 
results in : — 

(1) Increased cost of maintenance and repairs. 

(2) Decreased efficiency of machinery. 

(3) Increased liability to breakdown. 

If the Admiralty provide complements which the engineering 
profession consider inadequate, even for peace requirements, 
rarely they should be of a very high standard, and serve to leaven 
the necessary augmentation in time of war. It is ridiculous to 
suppose that engineer officers, skilled artificers, and trained stoker 
ratings can be created like yeomanry. In order to maintain the 
mechanical efficiency of a warship, an engineer officer must not 
(mly possess technical ability of a very high order, and years of 
engineering experience, but must also be a judicious and capable 
leader of men. The folly of entrusting the control of machinery 



100 THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

to those who have not received the necessary engineering train- 
ing, is made clear by the results of actual experience in the 
United States Navy, as set forth in Admiral Melville's report. 

It is also essential to safety, and the attainment of satisfaxitory 
results, that a large majority of the subordinate engine-room rat- 
ings be thoroughly trained and experienced men. Experience 
has shown that substantial differences arise in the speed of a 
ship, and the fuel cost per I.H.P. with trained and untrained 
men in the stokehold, more especially in the case of ships fitted 
with water-tube boilers. The practical importance of this be- 
comes apparent when one remembers the influence exercised by 
speed and coal consumption upon the tactical value and radius 
of action of a warship. 

Limitations of space, and the advisability of restricting the 
number of lives at stake upon any one warship, no doubt render 
it expedient to reduce the personnel to a minimum, but that 
minimum must, ii? each department, satisfy the requirements of 
efficiency, and in no department is the condition so vitally im- 
jwrtant as in the engine-room, otherwise the sole justification 
for the existence of the ship, i.e., its fighting value, may be com- 
pletely destroyed. 

The prevailing opinion of marine engineers, as disclosed by 
the discussions at the various institutions, is that the existing 
scale of engine-room complements does not satisfy the require- 
ments of efficiency, and that, in the event of a naval war, grave 
weaknesses in the engineer branch will be revealed to the Admir- 
alty and the nation. 

It is quite conceivable that inferior capacity, or insufficiency 
of numbers, in the ranks of the engineer officers, might render 
the mightiest warship in the Navy absolutely impotent at a 
critical juncture, and thereby so seriously disturb the Admiral's 
plan of action as to turn the balance of chances against him. 
There can be no possible justification for a policy that fails to 
restrict the possibility of such a national catastrophe to a 
minimum. 

Discipline. 

Judging from Lord Selbome's interjected comments and 
reply to the deputation, he would appear to be under the im- 
pression that certain of the members who addressed him intended 
to imply that, under the existing conditions, there is actual in- 



THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 101 

discipline, or in other words, insubordination, in the engine-room 
of the fleet. A perusal of the remarks of the various speakers, 
however, discloses no cause for any such impression. Many 
intermediate degrees intervene between perfect discipline and 
indiscipline, and the sole contention of the deputation was that 
the civilian rank, and accompanying restricted secondaiy 
authority, of the engineer officer, militate against the attainment 
of the very high standard of discipline necessary to cope success- 
fully with the trying and difficult conditions of work in the 
engine-room and stokehold of a warship. In spite of Lord 
Selbome's denial, the justice of this contention will be at once 
appreciated by those possessing practical experience in the 
handling of men. 

Why the Admiralty should, in this matter, so persistently 
disregard human nature and experience is almost beyond com- 
prehension. An explanation may lie in the fact that the 
Bixeeutive officers in command, having no practical engineering 
experience whatever, cannot picture an engine-room in the stress 
of battle. Their connection with the engine department is now 
limited to its inspection for cleanliness, and their experience of 
breakdowns is associated with slowing down, stopping, or return- 
ing to port for repairs, whilst their knowledge of panics is con- 
fined to the evidence at courts-martial after fatal explosions. 
The hideous possibilities of the engine-room and stokehold^ 
during a naval engagement, are fortunately perhaps a sealed 
book to them and to the public, yet all can be foreseen with 
approximate accuracy by engineers. Panic will inevitably produce 
disaster, and if the stokeholds be manned with a large percent- 
age of practically raw recruits, as they necessarily must be under 
existing regulations, the chances of panics occurring will un- 
doubtedly be far from remote. It is at the critical times when 
explosions or derangements of machinery upset the normal 
routine of working, and create nervous strain, that the dangers 
attending the presence of imperfectly trained and disciplined 
men will be demonstrated. It is also, at such moments, that the 
safety of the ship may absolutely depend upon the presence of 
engineer officers, possessing not only technical ability, mature 
experience, and ready resource, but in addition, that class of cool 
courage which inspires confidence in all around them, and whose 
rank and authority command unquestioning obedience. 



a THE ENGIKEER BR4NCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

What then is the reason for the failure of the Admiralty to 
frankly recognize the tnio position ? Is it that the executive 
officers, who rule the Navy, have failed to keep pace with the 
phenomenal advance of engineering science in relation to naval 
power, and are therefore unable to differentiate between the 
engine-driver of long ago and the professional expert of to-day ? 
Or is it that these very senior and conservative officers, of the 
predominating branch, realise only too well the rapidly increas- 
ing value and importance of the engineer, and fear the threatened 
menace to their hitherto unchallen^d supremacy, and to the 
honours and privileges at present monopolised by the branch 
to which long associatiou, training, and habit have naturally 
directed their warmest sympathies ? 

Neither of these alternative explanations of the existing 
state of things can be a source of either credit to the senior execu- 
tive officers, or satisfaction to the country, and it is to be 
regretted that the facts do not admit of the construction of a third 
alternative and more consolatory theoiy. Whether the under- 
lying cause be apathy or jealousy, it is nevertheless only too 
apparent that the actions of the Admiralty betoken a lack of 
sympathy and appreciation, and afford evidence of a policy of 
repression towards that branch of the Service, which the natural 
course of evolution is ever tending to elevate and expand into a 
position of greater and more permeating influence upon sea power. 

The essence of much of the evidence in support of these state- 
ments is contained in my former papers, hut events move rapidly 
nowadays, and in further justification of my strictures I now 
propose to adduce some additional material facts bearing upon 
the questions at issue. 

W.tRSIITPS. 

lengths to which the 

■e(]uii-e- 
1 




THE EXGINEEB BRANCH OF H.M. XAVY. 108 

oflBcers, who may ultimately become members of the Board of 
Admiralty, and it therefore enjoys much sympathetic influence 
in high quarters. 

When electrical generating plant was first introduced in our 
warships, the engineer officers were made responsible for 
its mechanical efficiency and the torpedo lieutenant for its elec- 
trical efficiency, but it was soon recognised that this division of 
responsibility was unsound, and both engines and dynamos were 
placed under the control of the engineer branch, the torpedo 
lieutenant taking charge of electric circuits, lamps, searchlights, 
€tc. On the introduction of electric motors about five years ago 
they were, however, placed in charge of the torpedo lieutenant, 
thus creating an anomalous position, whereby the engineer 
olricers are responsible for the dynamos, whilst the toipedo 
lieutenant has charge of the motors. The absurdity of the situa- 
tion has been enhanced by the rapid developments of electrical 
power on warships for auxiliary purposes. For example, in the 
case of electrical capstans, winches, etc., one half of each machine 
is under the charge of an officer of the executive branch and the 
remainder is controlled by an officer of the engineer branch, 
notwithstanding the fact that the engineer officer is in charge of 
a practically exact duplicate of the torpedo lieutenant's motor in 
another part of the ship. 

There are indications that this is simply an early stage of the 
initiation by the " Vernon " school of a scheme for placing all 
deck machinery, whether electrical, hydraulic, or pneumatic, in 
charge of executive officers and relegating the engineer officers 
to the engine-room only, but the impracticability of such a 
scheme will be at once apparent to engineers. In the keen desire 
to give active expression to feelings of departmental jealousy, 
the fact is apparently lost sight of that it is the efficiency of the 
British Navy which is at stake. 

It is on questions such as these that members of an engineer- 
ing institution are eminently qualified to give a definite and 
reliable opinion, and in this case the correct solution is so 
obvious to engineers that it is almost impossible to conceive what 
prompted the Admiralty to create such a conflict of authority. 

The distribution of duties which gives the torpedo lieutenant 
charge of electric circuits, the firing of torpedoes, laying and 
firing of mines, wireless telegraphy, and the like, is no doubt the 



104 THE ENGINEER BEANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

best in the interests of efficiency, and as none of them come 
within the scope of electrical power engineering, the training on 
the " A'emon " is probably sufficient for the requirements. 

The position, however, is very different in the case of electric 
motors driving auxiliary machinery, the driven portions of which 
are already in charge of the engineer officer, and it is difficult 
to understand how any advantages can be claimed for a sub- 
division of authority, under which the control of the motive 
power of a machine is withheld from the engineer officer, who is 
a trained mechanical and electrical engineer, and delegated to 
an executive officer who is in no sense a practical engineer. 

The basis of electrical power engineering is mechanical 
engineering ; there is no royal road to become an expert except by 
adequate technical and handicraft training, and long practical 
experience. The former is necessary in order that the officer 
may initiate and carry out repairs with certainty and despatch, 
and the latter in order that he may reduce cost of upkeep, main- 
tain maximum efficiency, and minimise accidents and break- 
downs. 

A lieutenant can, according to Admiralty r^ulations, qualify 
himself as a torpedo lieutenant, bo far as electrical knowledge is 
concerned, by ^ing through the electrical course of eight work- 
ing months at Greenwich, during which seven hours weekly 
are devoted to this subject; a preliminary course of three months 
in H.M.S, " Vernon," and a further practical course of six months 
in H.M.S. " Vernon." During this period, few, if any, oppor- 
tunities are afforded him for acquiring mechanical knowledge, 
and, at the conclusion of his training, he is obviously just as far 
from being an electrical engineer as he is from being a mechanical 




fer Uie «9fficx9it w^^^dug of ti<* pUnts 40^^ c^rit^^^ <s\M ^]] v^<nv^- 
8My rpfHOTB im conAectkm witli tJw» 4>( iiAJmtv; ^n<^ ^^n^^^^ti^ >!0V\ ii"*^. 
In his fifti year, lie jUtends a ooxxrf»^ of in^ln^otio^ i« Ovo i"^)ts^- 
trkal rniorksiiop in Devonpi^rt dock^^ixU ;Mi<l i^ iht^w ii^ny^^hl lhi^ 
prDoesses of winding and in^ulatiuiit 5Sf>nfy^ and ^hunl i^^iU. M\\\ 
also the oonstmction of diflFonnvt ty|)07^ of styi^«moi«, i^^^Moi^, 
switches, and all electrical fittinfrs in uho on h\\^\\\ n\\\\y V\\\(\\\\y 
he must, according to AdminUty iu?»truotion?», <|nttlif\ in oloo- 
trical knowledge before rocoiving hi»s oonnni><jtion «» rt^»»i!«<rtn< 
engineer. All engineer ofiieors, U8 tho oxigtMUMoi* of <ho SiMViin» 
permit, also take a short courso in (ho ** Vornon " (im |mm|o nohoul, 
but the course is very elementaiy, luul nmy juiiUy i»o tn>i:»u<lMil 
only as a means of refreshing iho nuMnory of (hnir oai ly woi l\ ttn 
engineer students. 

Of many available exiunploH tlio following ntny \\v ciiiMJ ma 
showing the general ailapiability of \\u* (MigittoiM oltlftM, mimI )Iim 
practical results of his mechanical utiil i*l(M'hif'iil tHiitiiti^. Ihtf 
ingthe operations in (vhina, un<ler Aciniiml SpytMoiir, Iho M«iaj«» 
tant engineers were employed in diNniatilliriK fin* n\i*nth dyMfUMoo 
and searchlights of H.M.S. ** (.'enturion/* iumI tMiMMrliMj; IIm'Mi 
on shore for use on an aiTnoured train, TIim wImiIm fipjiMrMhia wma 
satisfactorily fitted up, Mtc^am being taken tvniit Um* boiler of Hm» 
locomotive. Subsequently the train w^m ftban^lorfe^K n>uti Ut'unt 
set on fire by the Boxerji, the tlyusiunt w«% tt^/|/iirenHy tUfhU'^ 
ablv mined. After the Hoxer* ba/l >>#?*ffi driven >^'fe, 0^* b^irr^f 
up dynamo was rer;^j(V#fred and taken t^* the " i.^uUitUfU," yrh^t^ 
an a»4L$taal enginie^r re-inAilat/rd and ff-^*muf\ iK niff\ >> ^>r< 
in «nc<*?''i«fiil Hie donng tb#r fer/iaind^^r //f fb^ f^mtfUi'^\ott 

A<inijral«y, ai» drtntigt fK<«r p-T*?«^rftf Sr^^wiv-t;*! ^a^^^ ;% r^^-m* f^ht*^ 

&tiow>: — 

Til fi#!- a&ii»-'h#i#t;ed 7'\nngr m<*n. -sr.rh ^vp^^r ♦^-rt^** 4w •i<m>*j >i 
^uvTrztM <ihoDii. 



106 THE ENGINXEB 

Examinatian : — 

Educational-^Sixth standard ; vulgar and decimal frac- 
tions; simple interest; dictation and reading. 

Theoretical. — General construction of electrical appa- 
ratus ; instruments ; motors, etc. ; simple testing. 

Practical. — Re-lining and adjusting bearings; using a 
lathe; screw -cutting test for bolt and nut; repairs 
to an; part of electrical apparatus, instruments, 
motors, etc. 

There being a dearth of candidates with these qualifications, 
the requirements have been reduced, and this even in the short 
space of time that has elapsed since March, 1901. 

The altered qualifications are: — 

Educational. — Sixth standard ; vulgar and decimal frac- 
tions will not be insisted upon; requires a good 
general education. 

Theoretical and Practical. — Men having experience as 
fitters and being good workmen may be accepted 
even if they have very little electrical knowledge, 
which latter can be taught in the torpedo schools, 
but candidates must be good workmen at the lathe. 

The position at present may be gauged by the following para- 
graph which appeared in the Western Morning News of iFanuary 
2nd: — 

Naval Elkctbiciakb. 
The Admiralty still ezperieoce great dilGcultj in aecuring for the nav&l 




THE ENGINEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 107 

over a period of seventy-two days, and is imparted by a chief 
torpedo instructor, who is a petty officer, but who is not himself 
allowed to qualify as an electrician. The workmanship test is 
** approved " by the senior lieutenant (T) of the torpedo school, 
who is neither an engineer nor a mechanic. 

If the electrical training of the chief and other petty officers 
of the torpedo and engineer branches of the Navy is compared, it 
will be found that the engine-room artificers receive quite as 
good a practical instruction in the care and management of elec- 
trical machinery as do the armourers of the torpedo school, who 
are the instructors of the electricians, while the mechanical train- 
ing of engine-room artificers is so far superior as to admit of no 
comparison. 

Why then is it that, with mechanically-trained engineer 
officers and artificers, this new rating of " electrician " (having 
only purely mechanical qualification) should have been placed 
imder the control of an executive officer having no mechanical 
training ? It must result in further friction between the execu- 
tive and engineer branches, and therefore is to be deplored by 
those whose chief desire is to inci'ease the efficiency of the Ser- 
vice. The placing of mechanical ratings under the orders and 
supervision of a non-mechanical officer must result in confusion, 
whilst if any auxiliary machine in the engine department be 
ultimately driven by electric power, and the motors placed in 
charge of men from another branch, and under the orders of the 
officers of that branch, smooth working will be impossible. 

The hand of the engineer is everywhere in the steam navy of 
to-day, and this inevitable fact must be frankly accepted if true 
efficiency is to be created. Neither the First Lord of the Admir- 
alty nor the Parliamentary Secretary will ever realise the true 
position and its dangers until one or more engineer officers are 
placed on the Board of Admiralty and are there enabled to give 
free expression to their views as officers of military rank, and not 
as civilians and subordinates. 

Promotion. 

At present lieutenants are promoted and obtain two-and-a- 
half stripes at about twenty-nine years of age, and paymasters at 
thirty-one, but engineers do not receive their promotion until 
about thirty-eight, the result being that they have to serve seven- 



108 THE EXGINEEB BBANCB OF H.U. NATY. 

teen years before attaining the rank of chief engineer, and 
remain for nine and aeven yeai-s respectively junior in rank and 
pay to these ofScers, who are certainly not their superiors either 
in usefulness or ability. Is it not demanding too much of human 
nature to expect them to feei contented and satisfied under such 
dispiriting conditions? 

Intimately connected with this elownesa of promotion to chief- 
engineer rank is the glaringly unjust system under which junior 
officers are appointed "in lieu of" chief engineers, but are 
refused both the nominal rank and the pay of chiefs. This has 
no parallel iu any other branch of the Service. Amongst the 
many communications I have received from engineers in foreign 
navies was one from an officer in high position, who asked me if 
I would kindly confirm the truth of the statement which he had 
read, as he and his brother officers could not believe that such a 
condition could exist in the British Navy. So gross an imposi- 
tion is certainly inconsistent with the traditions of this country 
for fairplay. There would appear to he no adequate reason why 
engineers should not receive their appointments as chief engineer 
at or about the same age as that at which the corresponding pro- 
motions are granted in other branches of the Service. Such a 
change would not only possess the advantages attaching to an 
act of reason and equity, but would make it possible to appoint 
chief engineers to ships of the smaller types, as advised by 
Admiral Melville, and so permit of artificer engineers being ap- 
pointed to the junior positions on warships of the larger types, 
where the services of these valuable warrant officers would he 
utilised to the best advantage. 

The ultimate limits of promotion in the engineer branch are 
■ restricted as conmared with the txiaaibi lilies of Ihe 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 109 



Admirals of Fleet 


• • • • • • 


5 


Admirals 


" 


10 


Vice- Admirals 


• • a a a ■ 


21 


Bear- Admirals 





38 


Captains 


• a • • ■ a 


204 


Commanders 


f * ■ 


309 


Lieutenants and 


supple- 




mentary lieutenants ... 


1,205 


Sub-lieut«nant8 




354 






2,146 



Engineer-in-Chief 1 

Chief Inspectors and In- 
spectors of machinery... '20 

Fleet engineers 194 

Chief Engineers and En- 
gineers 456 

A^ssistant Engineers and 
Temporary Service As- 
sistants 283 



954 



H.M.S. ** Britannia '' and the R.N. Engineering College, 

Keyham. 

In comparing the '* Britannia," which is the training school 
for naval cadets, with the R.X. Engineering College at Keyham, 
the same inequitable state of aiiairs is found to exist, the 
** Britannia^' being evidently, and quite rightly, regarded with 
sympathetic solicitude and interest as an important national 
institution, whilst Keyham College is apparentlj^ looked upon as 
a disagreeable necessity. The "Britannia" being in commis- 
sion is superintended by a captain, who is always specially 
selected for this appointment, and the excellence of the training 
afforded by the united eft'orts of all the members of a large and 
capable staff has resulted in the attainment of a very high stand- 
ard of general efficiency, which may be justly regarded as a credit 
to H.M. Navy, and a source of gratification to the country. The 
nominal head of the R.X. Engineering College is the Admiral 
Superintendent of the dockyard, but that officer has so much 
other important work to superintend that he cannot possibly 
devote the attention to the College which it really requires and 
merits, and he rarely visits it more frequently than once per 
term. The general control is subdivided into thi-ee departments, 
viz., residential, educational, and practical, in charge of a com- 
mander, headmaster, and fleet engineer respectively. There is, 
therefore, in reality a total absence of that single-minded, 
enthusiastic, and consistent guidance which can be exercised only 
by a single supreme authority, such as exists upon the 
" Britannia'' to the great advantage of all concerned. 

In the ** Brilannia ' ' there is a residential chaplain, whose 
influence for good is apparent in all directions ; at Keyham 
religious instruction is given once a fortnight by the dookvard 

VOL XVIII .-19». 9 



110 



THE EN'GIKEKB BBAXCH OF H.M. NAVT. 



chaplain. In the " Britannia " every facility for work and 
pleasure is afforded by the sympathetic Admiralty, and £600 was 
lately granted for a pavilion. At £eyham a football ground is 
rented by the students at £20 a year, and application to the 
Admiral to have a portion of the recreation ground re-turfed 
has been refused. 

The " Britannia " fully maintains the traditions of the British 
JTavy for spotless cleanliness, but Keyham is under the Board 
of Works, and is painted about once in seven years. In fact if 
parents saw the general condition of the College in this respect 
they would be still more reluctant to send their sons there. 

The comparative costs to the country for training naval cadets 
on the "Britannia" and engineer students at Keyham College 
are as follows; — 



I Captain and allownnces 
1 Commander and allowances 
a Lieutenaots and allowances ... 
1 Senior naval ioBtnictor 
8 Junior naval inatnittors 

1 Engineer, B.N. 

2 French masters 

2 Drawing masters 

1 InstriictoT, English Literature 
1 Instructor, Natural Philosophy 

Examinatioit expenses 

Instruments and lecture-room articles 

41 VVarrHiit officers, N.C.O.'b and seamen instr 

Officers, seamen and men (wBges) 

Fleet sui^eon and allowances 

Nursing sisters and sick berth steward 
Carpenters and other civilians (nick quarters o 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 



Ill 



RoTAL Naval Engineering College, Key ham : Cost to Country per 

Annum of Staff and Maintenance. 



1 Coininander 

1 Fleet engineer 

2 Engineers 
1 Headmaster 

5 Senior, junior and temporary assistant masters 
Draughtsmen and fees to engfineers of dockyards for 

tuition 
Models, repair and maintenance of apparatus 

Prizes to students 

Swimming and gymnastic instruction 
Recreation fund and gymnastic gear repair 
Mess of Officers, men, and students 
Gas, water, electric light, and rent 
Porters, stewards, writers, cooks, boy 

labourers 
Washing 

Clothing allowance to servants 
Wages of engineer students 

Medical stores 

Naval stores and maintenance 

New works, repairs and maintenance 



servants and 



461 
567 
402 
700 
1,440 

210 

193 

38 

29 

320 

7,379 

867 

2,283 

431 

62 

846 

45 

1,095 

600 



.^17,968 



Less contributions by parents and 

guardians <£7,235 

Value of practical work by students 

as per estimate of dockyard official... 5,000 



ft 



12,235 



Total for 180 students JE5,733 

Net cost to country, £32 per engineer student per annum. 



Repression of Exgixeers. 

The list of inequities may be extended to allowances, pen- 
sions, honours and decorations. It is always the naval engineer 
who is repressed and ignored. It will be remembered that dur- 
ing the cruise of the ** Ophir *' H.R.H. the Prince of Wales, with 
characteristic kindly thoughtfulness, showed his appreciation of 
the services of the engineering personnel of the escorting cruisers 
** St. George '* and ** Juno '' by sending a message congratulating 
them on their exceptionally good work. In contrast with this 
graceful act may be cited the fact that, on the return of the 
** Ophir,'* the Admiralty promoted oflScers of each branch on 
board except the engineers. Attention was drawn in the Press 
to this glaring omission, and it was pointedly asked why it was 



112 THE ENGINEKR BEANCH OF H.U, NAVTl". 

that engineei-a came first in responsibility but last in considera- 
tion. The following paragi'aph then appeared : — ■ 

The Royal Tour. 
The Admiralty annouucci in oonnection with the Royal Toiir, that Mr. 
David Alexander Stewart-Lee has been selected for appointment to the rank 
of senior engineer in the Royal Naval Reserve, and Mr. Sydney Montague 
Gardner Bryer, engineer E.N., has been not-ed for early promotion to the 
rank of chief engineer B.N. on completing the qualifying service. 

Mr. Bryer is therefore apparently to be promoted to the rank 
of chief engineer on completing twelve years' service in the 
Kavy. He haa now completed only seven years' service, and 
may therefore have to wait for another five years before realising 
his reward for service in the " Ophir," although the officers of 
every other branch received theirs at once. 

How bitter ia the prevailing wind that blows upon the 
engineer branch from executive quarters may also be gauged by 
th& following: — 

On H.M.S. "Caesar" in the Mediterranean, three a^ssistaut 
engineers, who are commissioned officera, have no cabin accom- 
modation whatever, and have to sling in hammocks. The under- 
mentioned have cabins: — 

(1) AVash deck boatswain. I (5) Captain's coxswain. 

(2) Captain's clerk. I ((J) Master-at-anns. 

(3) Captain's cook. ■ (T) Buidmaster. 

(4) Captain's steward. (8) AVard-room messman. 

Comment is superfluous. 

G-ESERAL Aversion- to Enter H,M. Navy .\s Exgiseer 

Officers. 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 113 

serious cause for astonishment and grave concern is afforded by 
the meagre lists of candidates, and the attenuated numbers of 
actual entries into the appointments offered year by year by the 
Admiralty in the engineering branch of the Service. This too, 
in spite of the fact that during the past ten years, the rapid 
growth in the importance of naval engineering has brought the 
profession prominently before the public notice. There is good 
reason to believe, however, that the wide publicity given to the 
subject by its discussion at meetings of the engineering institu- 
tions is tending to accelerate the approach of the acute stage of 
inadequacy of supply which will render decisive action on the 
part of the Admiralty imperative. 

The extent to which public interest in the situation has been 
aroused is indicated by the unprecedented demand for copies 
of the Transactions of this Institution, whilst my personal corres- 
pondence from all parts of the Kingdom, and even from the 
Colonies, is becoming greater than I can deal with. The tenour 
of my correspondents' communications clearly shows that there 
is a distinct disinclination on the part of parents to embark their 
sons on so unpromising a career as that of an engineer officer in 
H.M. Xavy, under existing regulations. We are thus face to 
face with the deplorable fact that, as the knowledge of naval 
engineering as a profession is becoming more widely spread, the 
desire to enter it is steadily diminishing. A startling illustra- 
tion of this truth is afforded by Diagram 1 (Plate XI.), which shows 
an alarming decrease in the number of candidates for each vacancy 
at the Royal Naval Engineering College at Keyham since 1897. 
In the year 1901 forty-five vacancies were announced, yet so few 
of the candidates obtained even the qualifying marks that the 
Admiralty were unable to meet the requirements. It is perfectly 
evident that the Navy must suffer from this spiritless competi- 
tion, as the amount of material available is insufficient for the 
effective application of the selective process. 

That the authorities are naturally alarmed is evident from 
the fact that they recently issued a circular to the headmasters 
of schools urging them to send up boys for examination. For no 
other branch of the Service has it been found necessary to have 
recourse to such measures. The competition for entry into the 
** Britannia '' and Woolwich is immense, but for the Engineering 
College at Keyham it is practically non-existent. 



114 THE ENGIKEEK BE.tNCU OF H.M. NAVY. 

It will be seen from the following extract from the report of 
the recent annual meeting of the Incorporated Association of 
Hea dm asters, that they have declined to respond to the 
Admiralty's appeal, whilst the existing position of engineer 
officers remains so very unsatisfactory. 

Mr. EBBt«rbrook, in moving- the following resolution, " That this ARsocia- 
tion desires to draw attention to the UDBatis factory conditions of service of 
engineer officers in His Majesty's Navy, and to urge upon the Admiralty, 
that until the Service m made mure attractive, as to bivth the status 
and the pay o( theee ofilcera, there will be a dearth of many desirable 
candidates, and a gleat loss of efficiency to the nation," said : The 
resolution I have to propose may at first strike some of you as not being 
quite within our province ; but I hope I shall convert you. I believe that 
the majority of masters who have sent in candidates for the Naval Engineer- 
ing College, I fancy all of them, are aware that there is a great deal of dis- 
satisfaction, which has existed for a long time among engineer officers. It 
is a large question, and I cannot propose to go into it very fully, but I 
will put the main points before you. Engineer officers for the Navy, after 
passing an entrance eiamination, go throu^li a five years' course of training 
at the R.N.K. College, Eeyham. This training is obtained between the ages 
of sixteen and twenty-one, the expense to the parents of the student is 
considerable, and the student himself must pass his periodical examiaations 
well, or he endangers his chances of remaining in the service. Well! he 
sosB through at least five years of specific study before he can become an 
" aasistant " engineer, and then he may go direct to sea. Ee must study 
three years more in order to become a " professional " engineer. Two years 
alter the end of the eight years, he has a further examination before he gains 
the title of " engineer," and at a still later period he has again to fare an 
examination if he aspiren to be promoted to "chief" engfineer. When he 
goes to sea lie finds that according to the King's Regulations he is in a 
position ol enormous responsibility, for to him is entrusted what Mr. Goschen 
calls the " tiendish complications " of the machinery of our ships of war. 
He must keep all this machinery in perfect order; for example, the engines, 
torpedoes, and su on — we all know what a ship of war is, as most of us have 
— and he must see that the n 
T the best ol Ihei 




THE EXGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 115 

with the executive branch, unsatisfactory. Also the number of officers in 
the highest ranli:s of these branches is disproportionate, e.g., out of 1800 
executive comniissioned officers there are 200 of captain's rank; out of 900 
engineer officers only 20 rank with captains. Then another point is just as 
extraordinary to the ordinary mind. The engineering branch has not a 
single representative on the* Admiralty Board. Considering what the 
Admiralty Board has to decide that is a sufficiently startling statement. 
And, lastly, their pay is not satisfactoiy. Well, the natural result of the 
dissatisfaction which this state of things entails is that while the total horse- 
power of His Majesty's Navy has steadily increased of late years, the number 
of candidates for this service has just as steadily decreased. The matter has 
leen brought before the Admiralty by influential deputations, but owing 
to prejudice and service jealousies, and also red tape, nothing material has 
been done. Now the American Navy — and it is interesting for us to note 
this — has gone through just the same experience, but after enquiry by a Board 
presided over by the present President of the United States a complete amalga- 
mation of the executive and engineer officers was made, with one uniform 
scale of pay and rank, and with uniform powers and privileges. Then I may 
recall to your minds that the early history of the Royal Engineers in the 
'Army has been much the same. We all remember the old days when the 
engineer officer was considered something much below the ordinary line or 
cavalry officer. That body was finally organised and made into a military 
body, and the outcome has been the production of such officers as Lord 
Napier of Magdala, General Gordon, and finally Lord Kitchener. When the 
guns had to be taken up to Ladysmith — the guns that saved Ladysmith — the 
♦ngineer officer, the non-combatant engineer officer, was found working beside 
the executive officer, he had to help devise means for getting the guns up 
there, and he was not a combatant engineer for all that. The question is 
whether every naval officer should not be an engineering officer, and an 
Admiral said as much in a letter to the Times a short time ago. I will just 
ptate shortly what naval engineer officers ask for. It is that they should 
become combatant officers, a corps of Royal Naval Engineers being formed, 
officers to be executive in their own department, under the orders, of course, 
of the captain or officer in command of the ship for the time being, with 
powers similar to those of all executive officers. The engine-rooms of our 
fihips are already under-officered and the number of ships is increasing out of 
all proportion to the number of engineer officers. I believe myself that this 
is a matter of vital importance to the future of the Navy and to the safety 
of the Empire, and I ask you, by voting for this resolution to-day, to show 
that you consider it so. Unless the service is made more attractive we cannot 
be expected, as Headmasters, to send our best and most promising pupils to 
go through a long course of training for this service, and if the Admiralty 
have to be content with inferior men and to resort to temporary expedients 
it will be at the expense of the efficiency of the Navy and the safety of the 
Fmpire. He begged to propose the resolution. 

The Rev. Dr. Fry, of Berkhamsted, in seconding the resolution, said it was 
little less than snobbery that a naval engineer officer should not be en- 
couraged and rank higher than he did. It was part of the same silly policy 
that put distinguished Colonial leaders in the early part of the Transvaal 
war lower than some young person fresh from Sandhurst. They should con- 
tinue to press for a change in the interest not only of their scholars, but 
of the country. 

Mr. A. W. Reith, of Halifax, supported the resolution, and it was carried. 



llf> THE EXGIXEER BRAX'CH OF H.M, KAVY. 

In their efforts to cope with the difficulty experienced in 
obtaining a sufficient number of engineer ofKcers for the fleet, 
the Admiralty introiluced a scheme by which the numbers could 
be augmented by so-called "direct entry," and this proving 
ineffectual, they further reduced their standard of qualification 
by instituting enfrj' for " temporai'y seiTice.'' Without going 
into the details of these two methods, it may be explained that 
the qualification for "direct entry" consists in obtaining a 
minimum of thirty per cent, of marks for the obligatorj- subjects 
included in the final examination a.t Keyham, while for 
" temporary service " no educational certificate whatever has to 
be obtained. But even with these easy means of access, it is 
to be noted that each year a smaller number of candidates present 
themselvea for acceptance, and if any further proof be required 
of tiie straits to which the Admiralty are now put, it is to be 
found in the printed statement of the results of the examination 
held in May last of candidates for " direct entry." Only four- 
teen candidates presented themselves. Ten of these were 
accepted and the remaining four were informed that they might 
enter for " temporary service. Of these four, one wrote to the 
Admii-alty to the effect that unless he received a permanent 
appointment he would reconsider his decision to enter the Ser- 
vice at all. His request was granted. One of the remaining 
three, after some experience, resigned his position ae " temporaiy 
ser\-ice" engineer officer, and actually elected in preference to 
become an artificer. 

This last case is of special interest and shows the extent to 
which those in power have dared to lower the standard in the 
engineering branch in their ansiety to obtain the necessary 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 117 

days. Xo eligible candidates were forthcoming, and in con- 
sequence no examination was held. 

Diagram 6 (Plate XIY.) shows the number of approved can- 
didates for *' temporary service '' assistant engineers from 1895 to 
date, from which it would appear that the decline has been some- 
what proportional to the extended knowledge of the unpleasant 
facts. 

Finally, so unattractive is the life of the naval engineer that 
it is not surprising that a number of engineer students leave 
Keyham College to enter upon other and more promising careers. 
During the last nine years no fewer than thirty-two engineer 
students have resigned or been withdrawn by their parents or 
guardians, and there is a distinct falling off in the performance 
of those who remain. This has caused a reduction to be made in 
the standard of attainment required to qualify as an assistant 
engineer for the further course at Greenwich. The j>ercentage 
of marks which, according to the regulations, must be obtained 
has been reduced from 60 to 50 per cent., but at the present time 
only six of the eleven assistant engineers who left Keyham at the 
end of May last, and who are now at Greenwich, obtained the 
marks necessary according to this reduced standard ; four of the 
remainder obtained the marks necessary for a second class 
certificate (which does not carry with it the qualification for the 
Greenwich course), and one obtained only sufficient marks for a 
third class certificate. 

It is useless to mince words at this juncture. The position is 
now so serious that it must be attacked boldly in unmistakable 
language. It can serve no useful purpose to imitate the disin- 
genuous style, or to adopt the obscure and hollow language of 
official utterances in deference to official susceptibilities and 
habit. It is, therefore, refreshing to find such an eminent 
authority as Colonel Denny, M.P., Member of the Council of the 
Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders of Scotland, expressing 
his opinions so definitely at the interview with Lord Selborne. 
Colonel Denny said : — 

I do not propose to enter into any arguments why you do not get the men ; 
it is sufficient that your lordship does not get the men, and will not get them 
upon the present conditions- Whether the Admiralty desire to get them is 
another matter, but the conditions offered by the Navy to engineers are not 
such as to tempt them to come to you in preference to the Mercantile Marine. 
Their rank is not recognised, they are looked upon tacitly as an inferior class 



118 THE ENGINEEB BEANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

of men. and their status is iguored. The result of all that is. when ;ou come 
to the country foe men you do not get them. I know that recruiting has been 
eatabliahed in large towns, and on our own account, in our own works, our men 
have been strongly nrged to join Bis Majesty's Navy, but the result of the 
attempt has been total failure. I think any person with any knowledge of 
the Admiralty conditions will admit that the supply of men for the engine- 
room is totally inadequate. 

Colonel Dennj-'s views are amply confirmed by Diagrams 3 and 
4 (Plate XII.), which show the yearly increase in I. HP. for the 
last twenty years, and also the corresponding increase in the 
uviniber of engineer officers. In 1S82 the total indicated horse- 
power in the British TCavy was about half a million, and in 1901 
it had increased to three and a quarter millions. In 1882 the 
number of engineer officers was 702, and on .Tune 30th, 1901, the 
number was 9-54 engineer officers and 65 warrant officers (artificer 
engineers), making a total of 1,019. 

Diagram 4 (Plate XII.) shows that the I.H.P. per engineer 
officer of all ranks was, in 1882, 910, and in 1901 no less than 3,21 ft. 

Even to the non-technical public these figures aie impressive, 
but their real import can only be appreciated by professional 
engineers, who reaJise that the call for a continual exercise of 
technical ability and mechanical skill, on the part of the engineer 
officers and artificers, is vastly greater now than it was twenty 
years ago. 

Diagram 5 (Plate XIII.) will appeal to the commercial 
instincts of the British public, as it shows that whilst the 
expenditure on new ships was £800,000 in 1872, it had risen to 
£9.000,000 in 1901, or eleven times greater, and that although 
the technical demands of the machinery under the control of the 
engineer is an ever-increasing <iuantity, the commercial value 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 119 

retired from active service, so that he may escape the professional 
opprobrium which apparently attaches to those who advocate any 
advancement in the status of the engineer officers in H.M. Navy. 

The MEMORANDrM. 

The principal measures of reform recommended by the 
marine engineering institutions for the amelioration of the 
present imsatisfactory condition of the engineer branch of H.M. 
Navy are succinctly stated in the memorandum which forms an 
appendix to this paper. (Bee p. 189.) 

The fundamental requirement is that the engineering branch 
be formed into an independent military corps, the Royal Naval 
Engineers, which shall be treated and regarded as a combatant 
branch of the Sei'vice, having military functions and respon- 
sibilities within itself. Such a reform, bv giving to the 
engineering profession in the Navy the honourable position and 
authority due to a factor which underlies all material advance, 
and which will undoubtedly exercise a determining influence upon 
the naval warfare of the future, would render the engineering 
branch far more attractive to the class of men best suited to 
become engineer officers. This, in conjunction with its other 
far-reaching, direct and indirect effects, would result in a great 
and invaluable increase in the fighting efficiency of H.M. Navy. 

Whatever the ultimate developments may be, the members 
of the Institutions do not at present recommend an amalgamation 
between the engineer and executive branches, being of opinion 
that, by reason of the wide scope and rapid advance of engineer- 
ing science, the mechanical efficiency of a warship can be best 
maintained by engineer officers, whose whole lives are devoted 
to their profession, and who, especially when occupying the 
higher and more responsible ranks, can bring to bear upon the 
many vital mechanical problems that must arise in naval war- 
fare a mature experience and sound judgment which will inspire 
in their men that implicit confidence which is so essential in 
times of difficulty and danger, and can be promoted only by a 
recognition of superior engineering capacity. 

In conclusion, I would venture to touch briefly upon the 
responsible, and almost fiduciary, position in which the marine 
engineering institutions stand in relation to the lay public, in 
respect of that greatest of all marine engineering organisations 



120 THE BXGIXEER BRANCH OF H.U. NAVl'. 

in the Empire — the Navy. An agg:regatioa of independent 
selfish individuals cannot constitute a nation. Mutuality is 
essential to the existence of a community, and surely the special 
knowledge and influence of an individual or a class involve some- 
what proportional corresponding duties and responsihilities 
towards the community of which they form a part. Naval 
engineering being a technical and complex subject, the general 
lay public cannot of their own knowledge and unaided percep- 
tion gauge the present position of affairs in the engine-rooms of 
H.M. ships', and appreciate the dangers arising therefrom. The 
vast majority of the marine engineers of this Country are now 
fully acquainted with all the material facts relating to the 
engineer personnel of the Royal Navy, and, in virtue of their 
special training and experience, they are eminently qualified to- 
form reasonable and correct opinions upon them. Surely it is a 
patriotic duty, unmistakably devolving upon them, to sound a 
note of warning, and to do all that may lie in their power to 
bring about a better and safer state of things. Never in the 
history of engineering institutions has so unique an opportunity 
been afforded to a civilian class to perform a service of such 
value to the nation at large, as that which now lies at the hanrls 
of the marine engineering profession. 

I again appeal to the members of that profession not to let 
the call of duty die away without response, in the immediately 
comfortable belief that it is nought but an alarmist note, lest 
when the nation linds itself in the throes of a great naval 
stniggle, with the ultimate vital issue hanging precariously upon 
the realisable fighting powers of the fleet, they suffer all the 
remorse and bitter humiliation of a guilty consciousness that the 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 121 

" Guiinei*y lieutenants to have charge of and be responsible for 
the care and maintenance of all gun mountings, as well as for 
the hydraulic fittings in connection with the guns and hydraul- 
ically worked machines (outside the pumping engines) at present 
used for serving them. 

" Torpedo lieutenants to have charge of and be responsible for 
the care and maintenance of all dynamos, electric motors, electric 
lighting, Whitehead torpedoes and discharges. 

" Engineer officers to be in charge of all steam-driven 
machinery, and for the supply of water, electricity, or air, at the 
required pressure, and where dynamos are coupled to steam engines 
they are to be responsible for running them and supplying elec- 
tricity at the proper voltage at the machine terminals." 

The Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty also direct the 
captains of the " Vernon " and the " Excellent," and the chief 
inspector of machinery at Portsmouth, to consider and report upon 
the methods best calculated to facilitate the adoption of the change, 
including the revision of the courses of instruction for officers of 
both the military and engineering branches, and urge that the 
re-arrangement, whereby the engineer officers will be freed for 
work from which they can ill be spared, may take place as soon 
as possible. 

A staff of hydraulic and electric artificers is to be introduced, 
who will work directly under the orders of the gunnery lieutenant 
and torpedo lieutenant respectively. 

This is the scheme foreshadowed in my paper as a probable 
counter move, on the part of the executive branch, to the persistent 
demand from other quarters for engineering reforms of a very 
different character. 

So long as the fighting organisation of our warships is divided 
into two great military and engineering departments, controlled 
by distinct classes of specially and differently trained officers, 
it is but a truism to state that the destructive powers of the arma- 
ments can be best developed and applied by those officers who are 
by profession naval tacticians, gunners, and torpedoists, and are 
assisted by a staff specially trained and disciplined in the use 
of those armaments. 

Following the same line of reasoning, is it not equally a truism 
that the efficiency and workability of the highly mechanical 
modern armaments can be best maintained by officers who are 



122 THE EN'GINEEH BRANCH OF H.M. NAVT. 

engineers by profession, and are assisted by a staff of trained 
mechanics P 

There is, of course, no reason whatever why officers of what 
is at present known as the executive branch should not have 
sole charge of the maintenance, repair, and manipulation of 
armament*, or, for that matter, of the whole of the ship's machin- 
ery, provided that they firit become thoroughly trained and ex- 
perienced engineers. It is not a matter of conventional distinc- 
tions of class or title, it is purely and simply a question of com- 
petency to perform the duties with maximum eiEciency. 

There is no royal road to engineering proficiency, and engin- 
eers do not require to be reminded of the fact that, if the duties 
devolving upon the executive branch under the new scheme are 
to be undertaken by officers competent to fulfil them, very many 
years must elapse before the scheme cah possibly become 
effective. 

Such is the position, assuming that the scheme has been de- 
vised with a single eye to the creation of increased efficiency, 
and that an honest and thorough attempt is to be made to realise 
its face value. That, however, is the crux of the question, and 
the wording and tone of the Admiralty order, promulgating the 
new scheme, bear strong indications of an expectancy of early 
results which cannot but be premature and abortive. 

If officers of the executive branch are to undertake engineer- 
ing duties, they must be trained as engineers from their early 
youth upwards. 

Another point, which it is necessary to note, is that gunnery 
and torpedo lieutenants serve in those capacities for only a 
limited period, whereas engineer officers devote their whole lives 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 125 

training of whom no provision would appear to have been in- 
cluded in the new scheme. 

Engineering is the foundation of modem naval power ; navi- 
gation, tactics, gunnery and torpedoing constitute the super- 
structure, and any attempt to invert this natural order must end 
in failure. Therein lies the radical weakness of the new scheme. 

It is a significant and noteworthy feature of the Admiralty 
order that the radical changes which it institutes have first been 
definitely decided, and that the expert advisers of the Board have 
been subsequently called upon to bear the onus of devising 
means by which the changes may be most advantageously carried 
into effect. Had this order of procedure been reversed, it would 
at least have prevented any suspicion that the order had been 
issued in nervous haste, with a desire to forestall discussion of 
questions of naval engineering reform by the House of Commons 
and the Engineering Institutions. The interest of a consider- 
able portion of the community has, however, now become aroused, 
and will quickly develop into strong public feeling, in the face 
of any attempt to dominate the question of general naval 
efficiency by such secondary considerations as the maintenance 
of executive privileges. 

If the Admiralty propose to make some of the executive 
officers engineers, then it is obvious that they cannot consistently 
refuse to make engineers executive officers with control in their 
own department. 

One is tempted to ask why the Admiralty did not go a step 
further, and make the navigating lieutenant responsible for the 
steering gear and windlass, but perhaps this caution sprang from 
fear of a reductio ad absurdum. 

The Admiralty, in its desire to disclose some justifying motive 
for the instftution of the new order of things, advances the pro- 
position that the new distribution of duties will free the engineer 
officers "for work from which they can ill be spared." It is 
difficult to reconcile this with the reply made by the First Lord 
of the Admiralty to the Deputation on the question oi the alleged 
shortage of engineers. 

The formation of three independent corps of artificers, under 
officers of different branches, would also appear to completely 
destroy that elasticity of utility which is essential to the econom- 
ical and effective application of the services of the mechanical 



124 THE ESGINEEH BEA>"CH OF H.M. NAVY. 

staff. If an industrial concern were organised on similar lines, 
the resulting extravagance of labour would result in certain 
bankruptcy. 

Another very serious aspect of tlie case, and one apparently 
quite overlooked by the promoters of this scheme, is that the 
duties of electric artificers and hydraulic artificers will be fai 
more pleasant, and in every way preferable, to those of engineer 
artificers, so that still greater trouble will be experienced in 
obtaining men for the engine-room ratings, even if greater pay 
be offered. 

It may well be that the scheme is the initiation of a system 
whereby executive olficers will take the place of engineer officers, 
the artificers being retained, aa it is impossible to set a limit 
to the ambitious creations of non -engineering minds on engineer- 
ing matters. Machinery, however, will only respond satis- 
factorily to skilful and experienced care and manipulation, and 
the good intentions and aspirations of those attendant upon it 
will not serve to ward off the results of incompetence. The disas- 
trous consequences of entrusting warship machinery- to the care 
of officers and men, of inadequate skill and experience, are set 
forth with great emphasis in Admiral Melville's report, and as 
his conclusions are definite and based on the actual war experience 
of the l"nit#d States Navy, it would be fiying in the face of facts 
to tgnoiv them. 

Th<)se who have closely followed the workings of the Admir- 
alty in relation to Parliament and the public, can readily foretell 
the probable trend of its future action. Such action will possibly 
fake the form of some minor and unimportant concessions leav- 
ing the main question undealt with. This, however, will not 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 125 



APPENDIX A. 



THE ENGINEERING CRISIS IN THE NAVY. 



By D. B. MORISON, M.I.N.A., M.LM.E., 
Vice-President, Nobth-East Coast Institution of Engineers and 

Shipbuilders. 



(Read before the Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders in 

Scotland on 18th December, 1901.) 



The vulnerability of our wide-spread imperial position, our dependence 
upon sea-borne food stuffs, and the close connection between our maritime 
commerce and industrial welfare, should render all questions relating to the 
true and realisable value of our naval power of supreme interest and importance 
to every thinking citizen of the British Empire. 

The first essential of the thinking process, however, is the possession of 
food for thought, and the exigencies of modern life demand that this shall be 
supplied to the public in a concentrated and easily assimilated form, 
prepared, preferably, by recognised authorities, in whom the public repose 
sufficient confidence to enable them to form a conscientious opinion without 
subjecting the facts as submitted to much independent and troublesome 
analysis. The vast majority of people being almost entirely absorbed in the 
necessary and exacting task of earning a living, and having their attention 
closely concentrated within their own particular sphere of life, it is scarcely 
to be expected that any considerable proportion of them will make a study of 
such special questions /as national defence or the engineering requirements of 
modem navies. To the illiterate, such matters are necessarily a sealed book, 
whilst the bulk of the educated classes regard them as too complex and 
mysterious for their comprehension; or, what is even more regrettable, con- 
sider them to be of very abstract importance to the individual, and are 
therefore quite content to exercise that blind faith which is so conducive to 
ease of mind, and to place implicit confidence in those ministers of state and 
public officers who are specially appointed by the nation to safeguard its 
interests. Herein lies the danger that existing sources of weakness may be 
covered up and perpetuated, until a great national crisis, calling for the full 
and prompt exercise of the nation's powers, reveals in all its nakedness the 
appalling fact that the legitimate expectations of the country cannot be 
realised and that the heavy premiums for national insurance have been paid into 
public departments which are in the moments of danger incapable of fulfilling 
their vast responsibilities. It would surely be foolishly optimistic to expect 
drastic reforms to be initiated by those public servants, upon whom they 
would necessarily inflict personal loss, inconvenience, and endless worry, and 
of whom but very few could expect to reap any reward or distinction. 

In view of these facts it is the duty of the engineers of this country to 
closely study the engineering crisis in the evolution of the modem navy, and 

VOL. XVIII.->lMn. ^^ 



TilE EN'GIXEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

in tbe ediicatiou of public opiuion b; diaaeminating authoritative 
3 of this coHpctive opiniona, and tbeiF recommeiidatioiiB far the 
creation of greater efficiency in the engine-rooius of the fleet. 

It was due to a aense of thia duty that the author prepared hia first paper 
un "The Britiah Naval Engineer," which was read last March before the 
Korth-Eaat Coast luatitution of EngineerB aod Shipbuilders at Newcastle attd, 
at the conclusion of the diacuBsion, that luatitution fully eudoraed the viewa 
on thia point which bad been expreaaed, b; reaolving tbat iu view of the 
national importance of the aubject, the kindred inatitutioDa throughout the 
Kingdom should be incited to take part in ita further diacuasion. 

The President and Council of the Inatitution of Engineera and Shipbuilders 
in Scotland, with characteriBtic inaight and energy at once appreciated the 
Dational importance of the isauea involved and cordially responded to the 
invitation, by giving immediate eipreaaion of their desire to assist in the 
patriotic duty of promoting the much-needed reforms in the eogineeriiig 
department of H.M. Navy. 

It ia the primary object of thia supplementary paper to deal with aome 
of the broader aspecta of the queation, but it is alao desired to bring to your 
notice certain developments which have taken place since the reading of the 
first paper, so that you may discuaa the subject with a full knowledge of the 
up-to-date facts so far as it lies in my power to supply tliem within the 
limits of the time BTsilable. 

In an addendum to the paper on " Tbe Britiah Naval Engineer " an 
abstract was quoted from the atatcmeut of the First Lord of tbe Admiralty, 
explanatory of the Navy Estimates for 1900-1901, which explained the nature 
of certain minor conceaaions that had been made in respect of the promotion, 
status, and pay of engineer officers and were described by the First Lord aB 
the result of the deliberations of an Admiralty Committee. It may t>e men- 
tioned in passing that this committee consisted of Rear-Admiral Douglas, 
Capt. Prince Louis of Battenberg, and Mr. M'Cartney, M.P., the engineering 
branch, it will be noted, being entirely unrepresented. It is interesting to 
contrast the constitution of thia committee with the /ttrfoiinel board appointed 
in 1897 by the United States Government, to report upon the causes of the 
then eiiating disaatis fact ion of the naval eng-ineera, and the friction between 
the exerutii-e and engineering branches, and to formulate a scheme for reform 
which would establish conditions mure conducive to the efficiency of the 
U.S. Xa\-y. This bosrd conaiated of seven eieeutive and four engineer 
officers, and waa presided over by Mr. Theodore Hoosevelt, assistant secretary 




THE ENGIXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 127 

pay to engineers at the top of the list is in the aggregate very serious now 
that they have to wait so long for promotion to chief engineer rank. The 
rate of charge pay has been reduced from a maximum of 9s. to a maximum 
of 58. per day, and the decrease in the rates actually paid amounts to 44 per 
cent, in the case of large ships, and 66 per cent, for second-class cruisers. 
This too, in spite of the fact that although the maximum rate of daily pay 
for fleet engineers has been raised from 26s. to 30s.« it is still less than that 
obtainable in the other civil branches of the service, in which the daily pay 
rises to a maximum of 33s. 

The question of engineer officers' pay, however, is of subsidiary import- 
ance, as viewed from a national standpoint, and the unreality of these 
alleged concessions has only been referred to for the purpose of illustrating 
the discreditable spirit in which the interests of the engineering branch of 
the Boyal Navy are dealt with by the Admiralty. 

Although the rates of pay must necessarily have a direct and important 
bearing upon the quality of the engine-room staffs obtainable, it is quite 
certain that no radical improvements will be effected in that direction until the 
engineering branch is adequately represented upon the Board of Admiralty, 
and with a view to securing this drastic reform it is advisable that we should 
use arguments which are less subject to public suspicion than those based 
upon considerations of engineers officers' remuneration. 

Unhappily for the nation, there is no lack of material for a strong case 
against those responsible for the perpetuation of the existing inefficient 
organization. 

Becent experience with our most modem ships, fitted with Belleville 
boilers, has amply confirmed the statements made in my paper with reference 
to the inadequacy of the engine-room complements in numbers, skill and 
experience. The Admiralty do not appear to have grasped the obvious fact 
that the recent radical changes in matSriel in respect of boilers, increased 
steam-pressures, and increased complications of the machinery and arma- 
ments of our warships as a whole, demanded simultaneous changes in the 
numbers, organisation and training of the engineering personnel, and what- 
ever may be the inherent defects of the particular type of water-tube boilers 
which the Admiralty has adopted on so wholesale a scale, there is good 
reason to believe that a defective personnel has been a contributory cause of 
the very serious troubles which have been experienced. 

The following significant remarks were made by Admiral Sir Nathaniel 
Bowden-Smith, K.C.B. (Commander-in-Chief at the Nore), in the course of a 
recent discussion on " The Training of Seamen," at the Royal United Service 
Institution, and contain a highly authoritative, though no doubt uninten- 
tional, admission of the existing dangerous state of things in the engine- 
rooms of the Navy : — 

" The lecturer treats of the question of training seamen as 
though they were the only people to be considered in a modern 
fighting ship, whereas the engine-room staff are amongst the most 
important ratings, and I do not see how you can consider the training 
of seamen apart from the rest of the ship's company. As I understand 
Sir Gerard Noel, and the school which he represents, he would have 
two or nTiore training squadrons of masted ships fitted with screws 
and engines, and therefore requiring a certain number of stokers. On 
an emergency arising, these are all to be turned over suddenly to 
modem ships, so that the engine-room ratingfs would find themselves 



128 THE ENGINEEE BBAXCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

uoder new comlitiaiiB. having to contend with water-tube boilers and 
steam at 300 lbs. preaaure with all ita reaults. The conaequence will 
be a breakdown in the engine-room, and then what will be the use of 
the gunnera, even though they should shoot better than other men 
trained in modem ships, which I very much doubtP In. adTocatiug- 
Buch a Byatem, / /oncy my /rietid Sir Oerard Nod can hardly rea/iM tht 
somemhai bitter txperienet tee art mulergoing at preitent with Iht boHern and 
machinery of some of our ahips." 

Sliipe fitted with water-tube boilers require from 30 to 40 per cent, more 
atokers than ihips of the same power fitted with tank boilers, without making 
an; allowance for men sick or in cells, etc., and not only are these greatly 
increased numberH necessary, but it ia absolutely essential, if the boiler-room 
duties are to be efficiently and safely performed, that the stokers shall be 
thoroughly expert. So tardy has been official recognition of these tacts, 
that the numbers, even of untrained atokers, now available fait far short of 
the real requirements of the ships in commission, and it is only within the 
past few months that any steps have been taken to give the second-class 
stokers even a superficial training in boiler-room duties, before drafting them 
to aea-going ships. Money, and still more valuable time, have, however, 
been prodigally expended upon instructing stoker recruits in military drill 
and the use of arms. To the ordinary mind it would appear that the ability 
of a stoker to hit a. hay stack at 50 yards is of insignificaat importance to the 
nation as compared with his ability to efficiently perform his proper duties 
in the boiler-rooms of the fleet. No doubt the military instruction imparted 
ia useful as a disciplinary training, but the impossibility — if such there be — 
of combining discipline with the performance of their proper duties is not 
quite apparent. 

An excellent and very carefully prepared article, entitled " We always 
are ready," by RoUo Appleyard, which appeared in the September number of 
The, Fortnightly Etview, contains some convincing figures demonstrating the 
dangerous extent to which the engineering branch of the Navy is under- 
officered and undermanned. 

It is stated by the author that, according to the Admiralty's own admis- 
sions, 1,256 engineer officers, 3,2TT engine-room artificers, and 29,387 stokers, 
of various ranks and ratings, are required to enable the ships of H.M. fleet 
to put to sea, whereas the actual numbers at that time available were : 961 
engineer officers, 3,024 engine-room artificers, and 21,472 stokers; the deficits 




THE ENGlXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 129 

working mechanics of the fleet. Every development in machinery demands 
increased practical skill on their part, and it is necessary that they should 
not only be good handicraftsmen and competent sectional watchkeepers, but 
that they should also have a good general knowledge of the details of the 
machinery and armaments. Every advantage in pay, and comfort on board, 
should be offered to induce the right class of men to join. The Admiralty have 
recently appointed well-known engineers in different parts of the country to 
recruit artificers, and although the understanding is that they are not to be 
too exacting as to qualifications, the numbers obtained are very disappointing 
and quite inadequate to meet the requirements of the Service. My personal 
experience, in the works with which I am associated (and to which reference 
was made by Sir Thomas Richardson in the course of his contribution to the 
discussion on my former paper), has been that, although I took considerable 
trouble to induce intelligent young journeymen to volunteer as naval artificers, 
they one and all refused. To my astonishment I ascertained, however, that 
a blacksmith's striker had offered his services and had been accepted. This 
is only one typical instance of the lowering of the standard, which is not only 
dangerous by reason of the incompetency of the men enlisted, but tends to 
create discontent amongst the skilled and experienced members of the engine- 
room staffs, upon whom an unfair proportion of the work to be done is 
necessarily thrown. 

The Admiralty appears to have lost all sense of proportion in its dealings 
with the engineering personnel of the Navy, towards which its attitude is 
one of toleration merely on account of its necessity. No really honest effort 
has yet been made to grapple with the difficulties, and all concessions which 
have been gfranted have been half-hearted, grudgingly bestowed, and for the 
most part clumsily devised, as, for example, the new scheme of engineers' 
pay and charge pay already referred to. In order to cope with the shortage 
of engineer officers, recourse is about to be made to an unfortunate expedient 
which has always caused annoyance and irritation, and has, therefore, tended 
to induce inefficiency. I refer to the introduction into the Navy of temporary 
service engineers, for which an examination is to be held this month. Such a 
system of entry, through outside channels, destroys the uniformity of training 
and the homogeneity of the whole body of naval engineers, and is extremely 
unfair to those officers in their relationship to other branches of the Navy. 
It is also unfair to the engine-room artificers, the senior and more competent 
of whom should be given more rapid promotion to the warrant rank of artificer 
engineer, and thus fill some of the places which these new men are to be 
brought in to take over their heads. 

The serious dangers attending the present attenuated and insufficiently 
experienced engine-room complements which are provided on our modern war 
ships are effectively illustrated by the recent disastrous voyage of H.M.S. 
" Hermes." This ship is a second-class cruiser, fitted with twin screws and 
engines having an aggregate of 10,000 i.h.p., supplied with steam by 18 
Belleville boilers carrying a steam pressure of 300 lbs. The auxiliary 
machinery consists of the undermentioned 47 engines: — 

4 Circulating engines. 

2 Sets of distilling plant. 

2 Sets of engines and dynamos. 

1 Double-cylinder steering engine. 

2 Sets of air compressors. 
1 Refrigerating engine. 



130 THE EXGISEEB BEANCH OF H.U. HAVT. 

6 Feed engines. 

2 Hot-well engines. 

4 Bilge cnginea. 

6 Furnace air-pumping engiues. 

6 Ventilating eugiacs. 

2 Reversing engines. 

6 Dduble-cjlinder ash hoiste, 

2 Double-cjlinder coal hoists, 

1 Capstan engine. 

The armament consists of eleven 6-inch, eight 12-pounder quick-firing 
gnns, and a number of smaller machine guns, 2 submerged torpedo tubes, and 
8 torpedoes. 



1 Chief engineer. 

1 Engineer. 

2 Assistant engineers. 

engineer had only two years' aea experience and the other 
none, he having just left Keyham college.) 

Enoine-boom Artipickrb. 

2 Chief engine-room artifieera. 

4 Engine-room artificers (3rd and 4th class). 

3 Acting engine-room artificers (4th class), 

S.I'. — Aa acting E.R.A., 4th claaa, is one who does not puaaesg a stoke- 
hold watch-keeping certificate, and generally has not completed one year's 

Only one artificer had any previous experience of Belleville boilera or of 
the ship. 

The chief E.R.A. was a boiler- maker, one E.S.A. was a blacksmith, another 
a coppersmith, and the remainder were fitters; but of the entire number of 
E.R.A.'s only three had any previous sea eiperience. 




THE EXGIXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 131 

two months. Minor troubles arose in connection with the boilers and 
machinery generally, but the staff was neither adequate nor sufficiently com- 
petent, as a whole, to cope with the difficulties effectively, and the entire work 
and worry involved fell upon the few experienced men who soon became 
physically exhausted, and, as a consequence, the troubles multiplied. The 
inexperienced men did their best, but they were of course, under the circum- 
stances, of but little real assistance. The chief engineer and his assistants 
did all that men could do up to the limits of physical endurance. The chief 
became seriously ill, and in the course of a short time many of the other 
officers and leading engfine-room ratings became incapacitated. The depletion 
•of the experienced and capable members of the engine-room staff was naturally 
attended by increased liability to break down, and accident followed accident 
until the engineering department was in a complete state of collapse. During 
the later and more acute stage of the troubles, lieutenants were stationed in 
the stokeholds, presumably with the idea that, by the exercise of the superior 
authority of the executive officer, they woUld be able to keep the men under 
control, and check any tendency to demoralisation which might have been 
developed by the severe and prolonged strain to which the men had been 
subjected. This object would appear, however, to have been defeated by the 
exacting demands made upon the time and attention of these executive 
officers by the task of avoiding ashes and hot water under foot, and 
boiling water and escaping steam overhead. Courage is only comparative, 
and is largely a matter of becoming habituated to special conditions and en- 
vironment. An executive officer may be brave and undeniably capable on the 
quarter-deck, and yet be ridiculous and redundant in a sorely stricken 
boiler- or engine-room. Escaping high-pressure steam and scalding water 
possess terrors which may be demoralising to a man who has trained and 
disciplined himself to regard the possibility of dismemberment by shell fire 
with philosophical stoicism. 

This is another proof of the necessity for granting to engineer officers 
complete executive control over all men deputed to perform duties in engine- 
and boiler-rooms or bunkers, no matter whether they be drawn from the 
seamen ratings, or whether they are regular members of the engfine-room 
complements. 

This complete breakdown of H.M.S. " Hermes," attended as it was by 
the placing of the ship and its crew in a position of some peril, is by no means 
a solitary instance of the failure of our most modern types of war ships to 
maintain efficiency throughout voyages of even the most moderate duration. 
Yet with a fatalism which is incomprehensible, and — from the national point of 
view — intolerable, the Admiralty does not take, or even contemplate, intelli- 
gent measures to cope effectively with the serious difficulties with which it 
now finds itself face to face. 

Any system of naval administration must be hopelessly defective wTiich 
can result in the commissioning of ships so excessively liable to serious 
'breakdowns as typical ships of different classes, representative of the whole of 
our modem fleet, have proved themselves to be, and under which those ships 
are sent to sea with engine-room staffs that are known to be inadequate in 
numbers, skilly and experience. 

In these days of false sentiment and spurious humanitarianism, the popular 
scapegoat for all sins of commission or omission, in departments of state, 
w that nebulous and impersonal entity known as "the system." It must, 
liowever, in fairness to the present Board of Admiralty, be admitted that, the 
•existing difficulties are the result of the perpetual failure of successive preced- 



132 THE EXGIXEER BRAKCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

ing Boards of Admiralty to reaiise the fact that the revolutionaiy change from 
sail and smooth-boie muzzle- loading cast-iron guns to steam propulsion and 
highly mechanical annament, demanded corresponding drastic snd far- 
reaching changes in the constitution and training of the naval pirwirKl. Tbe 
present Board of Admiralty has been unfortunate in succeeding to power and 
responaibilitj, to reap the whirlwind, at a time when the evolutionary process 
has reached its moat critical stage. 

In time of peace, breakdowna of our war thxpts simply inToIre the lose of 
money, and the physical collapse of a proportion of the perionnti ; but in time 
of war a series of such accidents could not fail to be a serious national disaster, 
and might even imperil the very existence of the empire. It is therefore im- 
perative that the primary causes of the present dangerous inefficiency should be 
completely removed, and that a more liberal and enlightened policy should be 
adopted in the administration of the Navy. 

It is a waate of public money, and a betrayal of public confidence, to build 
ships, unless steps are taken to ensure, so far as human knowledge and fore- 
sight will permit, that each ship when completed and manned will he com- 
pletely effective. The mere construction of ships does not necessarily create 
naval power which has any existence outside the world of ink and paper, and 
until there is some indication that intelligent measures are to be taken to 
lender our existing ships really efficient, it is folly to speculate on the value 
of the increased national insurance afforded by the additional ships now being 
built. When these new ahips are completed it will be impossible, under the 
existing conditions, to provide them with the complements of experienced 
engineer officers, thoroughly skilled artificers, and trained stokers, necessary 
to convert them into efficient fighting units. 

In tbe course of a recent discussion at the Koyal United Service Institution 
on a paper entitled " The Training of Seamen," by J. R. ThursGeld. Esq., 
some interesting revelations were made of the unfortunate attitude which many 
representative naval executive officers of high rank take up towards tbe im- 
portant questions at issue relating to the engineering branch. Admiral Sir 
John O. Hopkins, G.C.B. i,late Commander-lu-Ctuef in the Uediterruieaa), 

"The officers learn a smattering oE engine work, but they should 
be in a position to take their place as engineers if called upon. I 
remember what the Khedive of Egypt did when he was bothered by 

B engine-drivers for more money. He said, ' Very well, I will give 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 133 

The first portion of this utterance, coming from an officer of such mature 
experience and responsible rank, tends to create a feeling of despair as to the 
possibility of the adoption of a liberal and enlightened policy by the Admiralty ; 
and it is indeed a happy circumstance, on which the admiral is to be con- 
gratulated, that he immediately followed it up by a statement indicative of a 
more reasonable frame of mind, and suggestive of the latent possibility of 
his ultimate complete conversion to that line of policy which can alone provide 
our ships with an efficient personnel capable of realising their full fighting 
values. 

Captain A. C. Corry, R.N. (H.M.S. " Camperdown *'), in the course of a 
somewhat involved contribution to the discussion, made the following extra- 
ordinary and contradictory statements : — 

** The life of the seaman or officer on board a modern steam man- 
of-war is about as much hedged in by humanly invented pressures as 
that of any man in the world. Not only is he amenable in the last 
resort to the ordinary laws imposed upon his countrymen, but he 
is surrounded by a network of highly artificial pressures which 
affect his smallest movement. Now, the effect of these pressures 
continued over a long period is to produce a certain set of qualities, 
good and bad. He comes in time to looK at life and at his business 
from the steamship and machine point of view, and he becomes, of 
course, daily more incapable of viewing his profession from any other 
point of view than that of the mechanic or mere artilleryman. The 
sea he may neglect. That vt dealt with for him by the constructor and the 
engineer. The icind and weather are no concern of his ; the engines drive 
him agaiiuit both he knows not how. There is no need for him to know the 
ca/pa<^ties of every man upon the lou^r deek and every officer above him." 

" Another question which has been raised in this discussion is 
that of the necessity, possibility, and advisability of giving what is 
called ' executive rank ' to the class of officers now known collectively as 
the * Boyal Naval Engineers.' What is the meaning of the word 
' executive *? Does it imply merely, as many persons seem to think, 
the wearing of more gaudy uniforms, the enjoyment of a higher 
social position, and the drawing of a higher scale of pay? If this is 
all that the naval engineers want, it is certainly not for me to wish 
to refuse it to them. But their claim to * executive rank ' involves 
a far higher pretension than this. What is ' executive,' and what 
are the attributes that it implies? It is a demand for power to 
' punish their own men.' This matter is discussed as if anybody is 
competent to punish ; the fact lies that no art requires a more search- 
ing and thorough training than the art of justly awarding punishment. 
The demand of Royal Naval Engineers is exactly like a demand that 
every employer of labour throughout the country should be allowed 
to exercise the functions which are now the exclusive property of the 
magistrate and judge. Punishment, indeed, mere punishment, the 
awarding, rightly or wrongly, of cells or other penalty, is the easiest 
thing in the world. But just punishment is, equally, probably the 
hardest. To give a man ten days cell is easy enough for any man ; to 
weigh and balance the evidence upon which he is to be, or has been, 
convicted, is entirely another thing. The glory of the * executive 
officer ' is that he shall be a man in whose hand sane and reasoning 
men will gladly place their lives at the moment of trial. If the Royal 



134 THE EXUIKEEH BKASCH of H.M. NAVY, 

Naval Engineer officer wishea to do this, and hopes ever to do it 
thoroughly, he will find that, in learning this trade, he will have 
but little time indeed left for acquiring aUo hia own." 

On the one hand, this executive officer bears testimony to the important 
influence ot the mechanical elements of the ship's constitution, and in un 
unwonted spirit of self abnegation owns right up to the fact that the con- 
structor and the engineer take the heavier portion of the burden of responsi- 
bility from off his shoulders i and, on the other hand, he refuses to grant to 
that highly reaponaihle officer, the naval engineer, that power to punish 
hia departmental subordinates which ie necessary to give him proper authori- 
tative control. Is it not a patpabte absurdity ta withhold from reaponaible 
eug-ineer officers of mature age, who have spent their whole lives in managing 
men, a power which is granted to mere youths in the executive branch P and 
that on the untenable ground that the training of the former prevents them 
from acquiring even in long years the sense of justice and proportion with 
which the young executive officer ia credited, apparently as a heaven-born gift- 
Captain Corry is particularly unfortunate in stating that " the demand of 
Royal Naval Engineers is exactly like a demand that every employer of 
labour throughout the country should be allowed to exercise the functions which 
are now the exclusive property of the magistrate and judge." I venture to 
think that the naval engineers would be only too grateful if they were 
«ndowed with the ample powers ot punishment enjoyed by employers of labour, 
who, amongst other means of dealing with ofFences against their interests, can 
instantly dismiss any incompetent or insubordinate employee. It is, however, 
scarcely worth while to subject such nonsense to destructive analysis. 

The root of the whole difficulty lies in the fact that, at the present time. 
when engineering malrriei has risen to a position of supreme importance as a 
component of naval power, a fanatical attempt is being made to maintain the 
engineering /i^rMnnel, which is ita essential complement, in a position of 
inferiority a.nd executive powerlessncaa, which bears no relation to its present 
functions and responsibilities, and is baaed on conditions which have long 
ceased to exist. The fighting' value of a modern warship is determined by the 
possession of a variety of qualities, the most important of which are dependent 
for their existence upon the efficiency and workability of the propulsive 
machinery and the mechanism of the armaments, for both of which officers of 
the engineering branch are now responsible, and for which officers who are 
engineers must always be responsible. The unjusl and prejudiced policy of 




THE EiNGIXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 135 

•expect that the well-bred, high-spirited and capable youths who are therefore 
alone fitted to become efficient engineer officers will willingly enter a service 
where they will be subjected to continual annoyance and humiliation, and 
where their ultimate grave responsibilities will be unaccompanied by corre- 
sponding powers of control. 

There is a tendency on the part of some of the opponents of reform to 
make capital out of certain statements made by Rear-Admiral Melville (in his 
able and remarkably frank report for 1900, as the chief of the Bureau of 
Steam Engineering of the U.S. Navy) with reference to the unsatisfactory 
working of the new Personnel Act, by which the former Line and Engineer 
Corps of the U.S. Navy were amalgamated. There is, however, no justifica- 
tion for interpreting the words of Rear-Admiral Melville as a condemnation 
of the enlightened and liberal policy of which the Personnel Bill was the 
practical expression. In order to prove this point, I cannot do better than 
quote Rear-Admiral Melville's own words : — 

** I am fully aware of the futility and folly of decrying legisla- 
tion simply because the desired results therefrom do not promptly 
materialise, but surely time enough has now elapsed since the enacts 
ment of the reorganisation scheme to make criticism of its effects 
upon the navy both proper and important. To any close observer it 
is convincingly evident that either the scheme was a mistake, or 
that the proper course has not been taken to carry out its intent. 

" I am free to acknowledge that the events of the past year 
have brought only discouragement to those most deeply interested 
in a successful outcome of this new law, hnt I am equally candid in the 
belief that the cauae of thU diHcouragement lien net in the Hcheme itftlf but 
in a lack offtUl appreciation an the part of the department (nary depart- 
ment) of the urgency of the need for hante, not only in providing the fullest 
opportunity for the acquirement of practical engineering knowledge 
on the part of the younger officers of the former line, but in enforcing 
their embracement of this opportunity in the most effective manner 
by departmental orders. It will not do to depend upon unaided 
individual enthusiasm, or details occasioned by the necessities of 
particular ships, such a course merely temporises with the present 
needs, fails in any rational degree to increase the force of navy 
engineers (even should it suffice to replace the annual loss), and is 
hopelessly ineffective to secure the most desirable results in the shape 
of a speedy acquirement of general knowledge of engineering on the 
part of the new line as a whole." 

And then further on in the report : — 

" Regarding the engineering departments of ships at sea in 
Hmes of peace as well as of war, compare for a moment the advantage 
of a battleship depending for the full and proper operations of her 
motive power upon the knowledge of a single officer, the chief 
engineer, with that of another ship of the same class, whereon any one 
of the line officers could in an emergency take efficient charge of the 
machinery and staff, indeed, assume and completely fill the position 
of an expert in that department. The ideal condition of the latter 
is what we are now striving for, since engineering knowledge has 
been recognised as of the most vital importance in the service, and 
it is to the realisation of this I still hopefully look despite the many 
visible obstacles." 



lab TDE E.VGINEEE BSANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

Id reading Rear-Admiral Melville's valuable and lucid report, one cannot 
help feeling tbat it would be to the advautBge of our public Bervices, and 
therefore of the nation, if it were posHible for the heads of our naval depart- 
ments to make public, in the eatoe complete, frank, and decisive manner 
the results of each year's working, and the bearing which the experience gained 
had upon the creation of greater efficiency. One inestimable advantage 
attending gucb published reports lice in the fixing of tbe responsibility upon 
individuals rather than upon an unarraignable and intangible system. That 
the engineering difficulties in the Navy, with which we are now face to face, 
are typical and not accidental ; that they are simply an acute and critical stage 
in a process of evolution, and not merely the outcome of certain special features 
of our naval administration; is proved by tbe fact that the same difficulties 
are arising in all the progressive navies of the world. The U.S. Navy was the 
first to reach an acute stage of the trouble which, in the judgment of the 
very progressive and decisive American people, demanded the immediate 
application of measures for its redress. We appear to he the next to experience 
the grave dangers attending the failure to harmonise personntl and jtuilirieL 
The others will undoubtedly follow in due course, and in view of the vast 
amount of world-wide attention which tbe whole subject is now attracting, 
progress is likely to be rapid, and we must take care that we are not left behind 
in tbe race for the acquisition of tiie enormous advantages which, in warfare, 
will accrue to the navy possessing the most efficient organisation. 

The Qrst step towards reform is a frank and intelligent recognition of the 
obvious fact that the great changes of the last fifty years, under which, our 
warships have become floating machines, necessarily involve sweeping changes 
in the organisation and training of the naval periontul. The required standard 
of increased efficiency may perhaps entail some additional expenditure, but there 
are so many possibilities of effecting economies by means of reforms in our 
whole system of naval administration, that it wonld appear more than likely 
that vastly increased naval efficiency could be obtained at an annual expendi- 
ture not exceeding that which is at present incurred for the maintenance of 
a navy which is in a chronic state of unpreparednesa for actual warfare. In 
our dockyards, the cost of production could be greatly reduced, and enormons 
sums of money saved annually, by the erection of modem tools and equip- 
ment, and tbe adoption of an organisation and methods more nearly akin 
to those obtaining in the commercial engineering world, and which have been 
evolved under the law of the survival of the fittest. Some of tbe savings thus 
effected could be advantageously devoted to increasing the efficiency of the 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 137 

everything is now done on board a man-of-war by machinery; 
manual labour is nothing; and the tendency is to increase the 
machinery, and to do nothing by hand which can be done by steam, 
electricity, or hydraulics. Not only the motive power, but the 
fighting power of our ships is all machinery. 

" In the old days ' Jack ' could repair all ordinary damages 
himself, and by the exercise of ' his profession * he could keep the 
ship as a ' going concern ' for many months, and sometimes for years, 
without falling back upon a dockyard. Now he has practically 
nothing to do with the up-keep of the ship, because it has nothing to 
do with what we are still asked to believe is ' his profession,' 
and the ship can only he kept as a * going concern ' by the enginetrsy the 
E,It.A,\ the stoker -mechaniot J the arrtiourerH^ the specially inntructed 
electricians f and in shorty by that large class in the complement of a warship 
which we may properly call artificers, 

"These men and these men alone can maintain for one week, or 
for one day, the fighting efficiency of a modem battleship or cruiser, 
or even a torpedo-boat destroyer, and the consequence is that 'Jack ' 
finds his general utility impaired because he is not a mechanic; his 
education has been faulty, and he has not learnt ' his profession,' so 
Sir Gerald Noel and some of his friends propose to improve his 
education by sending him to battle with the elements in an obsolete 
type of ship. This I consider to be illogical, because I see that 
* Jack's ' power to defeat the enemies of his country is entirely 
dependent upon his ability to manipulate skilfully various delicate 
machines (including the guns themselves), which require considerable 
mechanical knowledge and skill to work them to the best advantage. 

*^ Already the engineers are calling ont for exectUive rank and executive 
titles. This is quite natural^ as they see that they do most of the worky and 
that the maintenance of our modem ships in a state (f fighting efficiency is 
the business of mechanics and not of sailors. I do not think the engineers 
xcUl get their toish just at present^ but this agitation is a sign of the times 
which must not be ignored ; and it is not difficult to see that unless our 
Executive — both officers and men — ^receive a more mechanical train- 
ing than they do at present, they will be gradually ousted by the 
engineers and artificers. The law of the survival of the fittest is 
a universal one, and the Navy will be no exception to it. The * sailor,' 
as we have hitherto known him, cannot survive long, as there is no 
place for him on board a modem man-of-war. Steam ajid machinery 
liave battled with the elements, and defeated them far more signally 
than ever the ' Jack Tar ' did in his palmiest days, and the caricature 
of him which we have been vainly striving to keep up for the last 
twenty or thirty years must now pass away. 

"I do not feel called upon to produce forthwith a cut-and-dried 
scheme for our future training service ; but that a complete revolution 
in it, from the day the boys are first entered from the shore, is 
absolutely necessary I have no doubt, that is to say if we are to keep 
pace with the times, and not see ourselves surpassed by other and more 
intelligent nations while we are crying over spilt milk. 

" That the new training must be largely of a mechanical nature 
seems to me to go without saying, and that the manipulation of masts 
ttnd sails can have no logical place in it ought, I think, to be equally 
obvious to all unprejudiced minds." 



1S8 THE EXaiNEES BK.\NCU OF H.M. XAV^. 

On the 12th of this month Admiral Sir J. 0. Hopkins, G.G 
cHted to the Hoyal United Service Institution a most important and pregnant 
paper, entitled r " A Few Naval Ideas for the Coming Century." It also can- 
not fail to be of deep interest to all interested in. the great question which we 
now havo under coDsidcration, to read the following views expressed by 
Admiral Hopkins: — 

" And now let me touch on the vexed question of the position of 
the engineers, and suggest that the time has arrived to al^cord them 

" Their duties are purely executive and should be recognised as 
such, and the recognition cannot, in my opinion, clash in any single 
instance with the other executives, as their sphere of duty is so 
clearly defined, and an engineer wonld as little expect to be put in 
charge of the navigating or officer of the watch's duty as would these 
officers of being put in charge of the engines. 

" Then as regards power of punishment for delinquencies com- 
mitted by stokers in the engine and boiler-rooma, why should not 
chief engineers have the same power of minor punishment allowed 
them as a rommander, second-in-command, a first lieutenant, or, 
to quote an analogous case, a captain of marines for military offences, 
under the same restrictions as to quarter-deck investigations, etc.? 
If this were permitted it would t«nd largely to improve the chief 
engineer's position and strengthen bis authority. It also appears 
to me that the time is at hand to train a certain number of the blue- 
jackets to atoke. 

" Circumstances may arise in war time or seasons of epidemics 
when a long run at full speed cannot be maintained without assisting 
the engine-room party from deck, and then the advantage of the 
sped ally- trained sailor-stoker will be very conspicuous. As a coal 
trimmer also he will often be useful and obviate the present arrange- 
ments of picking up men for this duty haphazard and often unwilling 
workers. The men so trained to be paid a retaining fee as in other 

Such utterances from such quarters may be regarded as marking the birth 
of a new epoch in the history of the British Navy, and it ia to be sincerely 
hoped that young officers of the executive branch will not tail to follow in 
the footsteps of those senior officers of high rank who, in spite of aU the 




THE ENGIXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 139* 



APPENDIX B. 



MEMORANDUM submitted to Sir Fortescue Flannery, M.P., and the mem- 
bers of the House of Commons constituting the Deputation to the First Lord of 
the Admiralty, by the North East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, 
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, the Institute of Marine Engineers (London), and the 
Institute of Marine Engineers (South Wales Branch), with reference to the present 
unsatisfactory condition of the Engineer Branch of H.M. Navy. 



As the result of careful consideration and full discussion of the accom- 
panying papers by Mr. D. B. Morison, vice-president of the North East Coast 
Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, the above-named Engineering 
Institutions deem it their duty to record and submit their opinion, that the 
present constitution and organisation of the Engineer Branch of the Royal 
Navy does not admit of it efficiently fulfilling its important functions. 

The causes of inefficiency may be divided into two classes : ( 1 ) those 
which create dissatisfaction and deter the enlistment of desirable candidates, 
and (2) those which relate to the numbers, training and organisation of the 
engine room complements. 

We are of opinion that the primary cause of the unpopularity, inadequacy, 
and consequent inefficiency of the engineering department is its inclusion in. 
the Civil Branch ot the Service, whereby the executive authority and status 
of its Officers are rendered incommensurate with their duties and re- 
sponsibilities. 

We therefore recommend that the engineering department be embodied 
in the Executive Branch of the Service, and that its officers be endowed with 
executive rank, accompanied, however, by executive control restricted to 
their own department. 

The Engineer Branch being a large and important factor in the war 
efficiency of the Royal Navy, it would appear that it should be adequately 
represented on the Board of Admiralty. 

In view of the technical nature of the issues involved in Courts Martial 
affecting the engineering personnel, such Courts should comprise a proportion 
of Engineer Officers. 

The existing system under which Jimior Engineer Officers are appointed 
** in lieu of" Senior Officers, and are thus called upon to imdertake the duties 
and responsibilities properly attaching to the higher rank, without receiving 
that rank and the corresponding rate of pay, is obviously unjust, and should 
)>e suppressed. 

The proportion of Engineer Officers of higher rank than Fleet Engineer is 
at present discouragingly small. We are also of opinion that some attempt 
should be made to render the Engineer Branch more attractive by a revision 
of the scales of pay and pension. 

In view of the rapid evolution which has taken place during recent years 
in engineering as applied to naval purposes, we are strongly of opinion that 
the whole question of the education and training of the engineering personnel 
should be thoroughly investigated. 



THE ENGINEKE BRAXCH OF H.M. XAVY, 

The tot&l numbeTB of the trained perwmnel of the Engineer Branch at 
present fall ao far short o( the requirementa of the Service that it ii 
impoasible to provide ships in cootmiMion with engine room complemenla 
which are adequate in Dumbers, ikill, and experience. 

Some of the causea above referred to have lo far discouraged candidates, 
that the number oE entries into the Engineer Branch through the normal 
channel has decreased to a dangerous extent, and the Admiralty, to make 
good the deficiency, have had to resort to expedients which have lowered the 
standard of the candidates, and tended to undermine the efficiency of the 
Branch. 

The important duties of the Artificer ratings in modem war-ships can 
only be efficiently performed b3- thoroughly skilled and experienced mechanics, 
such as the existing conditions of service have failed to attract in the required 
numbers ; we, therefore, submit that increased inducements should be offered 
in respect of pay and accommodatioa. 

Signed — 

For the i Hksrt Wixer, President. 

North East Coast Institution of -I D. B. Moaisou, Vice-President. 
Engineers and Shipbailders. I, John Duceitt, Secretary. 

'"""■"• "S" ■="*■••"■ I Jr.L"AS™.iriec„u,,. 

For the ( Sin Thomas Horkl, President. 

Institute of Marine Engineers, -I Sin John Odnh, Past-President. 
South Wales Branch. I, Thomas A. Bbed. 

I5ik Jills/, 1901. 



APPENDIX C. 



REPORT OF DEPUTATION TO THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY 
IN REFERENCE TO THE CONDITION OF THE ENGINEER 
BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 



X Deputation, constituted of Members of the House of Commons and 
representatives of various Engineering Inetitutiona, met the First Lord of 




THE EKGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 141 

Mr. Chas. H. Wilson, and Mr. Gustavus W. Wolff. The following gentlemen 
also attended the Deputation : —Mr. Henry Withy, President, Mr. D. B. 
Morison, Vice-President, and Mr. John Duckitt, Secretary of the North 
East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders; Mr. John Corry, 
President, and Mr. J%b. Adamson, Hon. Sec, of the Institute of Marine 
Engineers, London ; Mr. T. W. Wailes, Vice-President, Mr. Thos. A. Reed, 
of the Institute of Marine Engineers, South Wales Branch. 

Lord Sblbobne (with whom were Admiral Lord Walter Kerr, Rear-Admiral 
Douglas, Mr. Arnold Forster, Parliamentary Secretary; Rear-Admiral 
Fawkes, Private Secretary; and Sir John Durston, Engineer-in-Chief of the 
Royal Navy), in opening the proceedings said — I am here to-day as a listener. 
I do not propose to make any statement to you at' all, though I may ask some 
questions; therefore I hope everything you have to say you will take this 
opportunity of saying. 

Sir FoBTESCUE Flanneby, who introduced the Deputation, said — Lord 
Selbome, as a preliminary to the questions which have been raised and the 
speeches which will follow, I may explain, in intxoducing this large and 
influential Deputation, that its members are here in sympathy with what 
they believe to be necessary improvements in the conditions of naval engineers, 
but they are not here for that reason alone. The reason that this Deputation 
is here is because they believe that improvements in the conditions of 
engineers' service are necessary to make the fleet as thoroughly and as com- 
pletely equipped as it ought to be. It is fifty years ago since the steam 
branch of the Navy was established, and the engineer officers of to-day are of 
an entirely different class from the workmen, who were, in the first instance, 
entered to take charge of the engines of His Majesty's ships. Not only are 
they of a different class, but they have increased enormously, both as regards 
the engineers themselves, and the men placed under their immediate charge. 
That is the case, because, as your lordship is thoroughly well aware, the 
personnel of the engine-room at present is about one-third of the entire 
personnel of the whol^ fleets Now, my lord, the question which the Deputa- 
tion would like to put as clearly as may be before your lordship and your 
colleagues, is whether or not during that fifty years the successive changes 
which have taken place in the organization of the engineering department 
have been such as are required by the improvements of the department and 
such as make it at the present time as completely equipped as it ought to be. 
The Deputation will submit, my lord, that in some respects that development 
has not been complete. They will suggest to you in the first instance that 
the number of engfineer officers is too small. (Hear, hear.) And upon that 
statement, be it right or wrong, I propose to say that the whole gravity of 
this question turns. We believe it is common knowledge throughout the 
fleet that the number of engineer officers is too small and that the establish- 
ment of engineer officers which the Admiralty in its wisdom desires shall 
exist, is not complete. Your lordship is familiar with the fact that there are 
two methods by which engineers are entered in the Navy. One is through the 
Engineering College at Keyham and students are trained there; the other 
way is by what is known as the " direct-entry " system, under which engineers 
who have been trained in workshops outside the Admiralty service are directly 
entered from that training to the Navy as engineers. I venture to remind you 
that the examinations at Keyham have been lowered, and that recently instead 
of sixty per cent, as the standard number of marks required to be obtained to 

VOL. xviit -ifloa. 1 1 



142 THE ENGINEER BUAXCH OF H.M. SAVT. 

juetifj the engineering studenta being entered, fifty per cent, has been 
adopted, but that ia only a verj trifling- BtatetDent compared with others, 
which I shall venture to put before your lordship, in support of the allegation 
that the Navy ia short of engineers. Last Christmas, my lord, there were 
200 vacanciea to be filled in the engineering branch of the fleet, and there 
were nine candidates who offered theniHelvea for eiamination to fill these 200 
vacaneiea. Three entries resulted from the eiamination of the nine candidates. 
kt Easter there was one candidate, and I congratulate the commission era on 
being- able to pass that one candidate into the fleet, and he was entered without 
any delay whatever. Then a fortnight ago there was another examination 
before the Commissioners, and fourteen candidates sat for examination for 
direct entry; four were passed and accepted and ten were rejected upon 
examination. Now, my lord, what becomes of those ten? That ia, I venture 
to auggest, one of the moet striking itlustrationa of the caae which the 
Deputation would venture to put before your lordship. Those ten rejected 
candidates were offered commissions as engineers for temporary service in 
the Navy, and I sincerely hope they will improve and become useful and 
efficient oSiceiB. Assuming that the information upon which I am making 
these statements is accurate, and I believe it to be ao, does it not prove — to 
demonstration. Brat of all, that an insufficient number of candidates come 
forward in reaponae to the announcementfl of vacancies, and even those 
candidates who are not entirely qualified by examination, however qualified 
in other respects, are, under preaaure of circumatances, accepted in some cases 
by the Admiralty? Then, my lord, regarding the agencies in Liverpool and in 
another seaport which have been eatabljshed by the Admiralty for the purpose 
of inducing mercantile engineers and others to offer themselves for commissions 
in the engineering branch, I believe I am correct in saying that these agencies 
have not been satisfactory in their result. Now, my lord, the reason that I 
have ventured, perhaps with too much emphasis, though I hope not, to dwell 
upon this fact as to the comparative dearth of engineering candidates is that 
when your lordship's attention is called to the necessity for making a change. 
you may see that the basis upon which the Deputation tests, and upon which 
their opinion rests, is the basis of making the Naval Service, as regards the 
engineering branch more satisfactory and more attractive to the best men, ao 
that BO far from there being a dearth there may be a plethora of first class 
engineers as candidates for the honourable position of engineer officers in His 
Majesty's fleet. I remember, before the outbreak of the South African War. 
there were five candidates for every position which could be given in the 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 143 

the Boyal Engineers. A separate corps was formed, and they have produced 
from that branch of the service some of the most eminent officers and some 
of the best men. In the case of the marine light infantry you have exactly 
a parallel condition of things to that which the Deputation would suggest for 
the favourable consideration of the Admiralty. In the case of the Boyal 
Marines you have a separate corps: the officers have proper sufficient distin- 
guishing titles— colonels, captains, lieutenants, and so on, of the Boyal 
Marines, who have complete control over the discipline of their men, always, 
of course, under the full authority of the captain and their superior officers, 
and who have no possibility whatever, of hoping to succeed to the command 
of the ship. One of the objections to rating engineers executively has been a 
statement that the engineers would have the ambition to command the ship, 
and would not be fit to do so, My lord, there is no such idea in the minds, 
either of the engineers themselves, or in the minds of their friends who are 
pushing this question. Just as the officer of the Marines in His Majesty's 
ships would be ineligible for the command of the ship under any ordinary 
circumstances, so would the engineer officer be ineligible in a like degree. 

Lord Selbosnb — Does not that really point to the fact that the Boyal 
Engineers do not really form a precedent on all fours? 

Sir FoBTEBCXTE FiiANNERY — ^Thc precedent, so far as the Boyal Engineers 
are concerned, was that a change had taken place by the institution of a 
separate corps, and that from being an unpopular section of the Service, it 
had become most popular; that was the parallel. Then I went on to an 
entirely different corps — the Boyal Marines, und I desired to suggest that the 
status of the engrineer may be practically identical with the status of the 
Boyal Marines, in regard to the control of the engineer officers over their men, 
and in regard to the ineligribility of their admission to the command of a ship. 
My lord, the engineer officer at the present time suffers under enormous 
disabilities as regards the control of the men who are under his care. Take 
one illustration alone : a stoker of to-day is a fighting man ; he has not only to 
work at shovelling on coal, but he has the duty of firing and of using the 
cutlass. Does it not seem extraordinary that for the purpose of being taught 
this drill, he is taken away from the control of the engineer^ who is responsible 
for his discipline, and put under a man for a time, who may be a subordinate 
officer of the executive branch, whose duty is limited to teaching him his 
drill. My lord, I venture to say that the ordinary stokers and firemen, who 
represent also one-third of the whole, I venture to think that these men go 
back from the drill to the control again of the engfineer with very much the 
same feeling felt towards civilians, and with very much the same ground- 
work of disrespect towards the authority of the engfineer officer, as arises in the 
mind of a man who has fighting duties to perform in respect of the man who 
has no fighting duties whatever. 

Lord Selbobnx — What proof have you to bring forward for that very 
strong statement? 

Sir FoBTBSCTTB Flanneby — My proof is that possibly fifty of the engineer 
officers — whom your lordship will understand I could not name — have con- 
versed with me, and have made that statement to me independently; that 
they have observed that very fact, and that sort of feeling, not in the minds 
of all those men under their care, but certainly of a proportion of men under 



144 THE E.VGINEEE BKAXCH OF H.M. NAVT. 

thair care. Is there auj reaaon why the eu^eer who has been adorned with 
a Bword should not have the actual duty of learning- aad teaching the drill 
and assiat to command the men under his care at the time of their drill, as 
well as during their engineering duties? I venture to sa; discipliiie would be 
enormousl; advantaged if that were done. 

Lord SxLBORNB — Do the engineer officers know anything about drill? 

Sir FoBCEBCUi Pi^knzbt — To the best of my opinion the; are not drilled. 
The engineer officer has a sword, bnt I think I am right in saying — though, of 
oourae, I am open to correction on these points by those who are more familiar 
than myself with the details — that the engineer officer is not drilled. 

Lord SiLBOBm — I do not think you will find that to be the case. 

Sir FoBTEBCUS Fuknxbt — In the ordinary course of ships on aerrice, I 
believe I am correct in saying that such people aa the engineer officer, the 
chaplain, the doctor, and the paymaster, are what are known aB " Idlers." and 
are not part and parcel of the drill of the ship. If I am wrong, I shall be 
glad to be corrected, but T belieTe I am correct in making that statement. 

Lord Sklbobni — Which is the more important — that a man should do 
engineering work, or drilling? 

Sir FoftTBSCUB Flahhbbt— T should say for the engineer that the moat 
important duty would be engineering work, but, my lord, the engineering work 
that can be done by his own hands is extremely small, and the utility of the 
engineer is undoubtedly through discipline. If he has not complete discipline 
very much within hia power, his power is, I submit, limited and his utility 
is limited. The whole run of what I venture to put before your lordship is, 
that the more complete the discipline of the engine-room staff under the 
engineer — with all proper discipline by the engineer to those who are superior 
to him — the more valuable, 1 venture to think, and the more effective will be 
the power of the engineer officers, and indeed all that branch of the Service, 
if the discipline were improved. Before I sit down I wish to prevent any 
misunderstanding that there is any desire upon the part of this Deputation 
to represent the American system. Americans go ahead very fast, and have 
tried an entire intermixing between the executive officers and the engine 




THE ENGIXEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 145 

service, which their service and authority alike demand in justice to them, 
and still more for the well-being of the fleet, and in order that a proper 
number of engineers may be obtained for manning. 

Lord Sklbobnx — I should like to ask just a few questions to enable me to 
really comprehend your points which you have brought so ably before me. 
What were these 200 vacancies for which there were only four candidates? 

Sir FoRTKSCUK Flanneby — It was understood that if as many as 200 
randidates at Christmas last were to apply and found to be eligible, that 
number would be appointed — that appointments would be made for them. 
I am not in a position to give your lordship my authority for reasons which 
I think your lordship will understand. That was the general understanding — 
that 200 appointments would be made if 200 candidates were found eligible. 

Lord SBLBOBxnc — Two hundred appointments? 

Sir FoBTBSCTJE Flanneby — ^Two hundred entries. 

Lord SbiiBOBNE — How was it understood ? I do not ask for names, but in 
what manner was it understood ? 

Sir Fobtbscue Flanneby — ^That was generally understood amongst those 
wHo have had to do with the recruiting of engineers in the various branches. 

Lord Selbobnb — Was there any kind of statement put forward by the 
Admiralty? 

Sir Fobtxscue Flanneby — Not any that I am in a position to put before 
your lordship. 

Lord Selbobne — Was there any notice issued? 

Sir Fobtbscue Flanneby — Without a comparison of what was voted, and 
the list, I could not say. 

Lord Selbobne — Referring to another question you raised, do you suggest 
—did you suggest — in your remarks that at the present moment the discipline 
in the engine-room and the stokehold is not satisfactory? 

Sir Fobtbscue Flanneby — I suggest that the discipline in the engine- 
room and the stokehold could be enormously improved with greater comfort 
than in obtaining the existing amount of discipline. I suggest that whilst 
there is much loyalty amongst the engineers, there is a quiet discontent to a 
large amount amongst them at the present condition of things, which has a 
restrictive effect upon the recruiting. 

Lord Selbobne — ^That is not quite the point. Did I understand you to 
suggest, in referring to the point of discipline, that the discipline between the 
officers and the men was not satisfactory ? 

Sir Fobtxscue Flanneby — I suggest it might be more satisfactory. I do 
not think there is any want of discipline; discipline is maintained, but it 
could be maintained very much more satisfactorily by the change suggested. 



146 TIIE ENGINEER BR.1NCH OF H.M. NAVY, 

Lord Sblbobhb — You do not suggest there is want of diBcipltne? 

Sir FoHTKBcuK FL.UINBBX — Oh, BO J I do not go 80 far as that. 

Lord Sklbobhb — As regards examination, 70U said that the standard had 
been lowered — was that entry into the NaTyP 

Sir FoBTKBCEB Flankbbt — Entry into the Navy with a period of five years' 
itudy. At examination formerly, sixty per cent, of the total number of 
marks was required, now the standard is fifty. 



Colonel Dbnnt, M.P. — Lord Selbome, I have but little to add to the very 
lucid statement made by Sir Fortescne Flannery, but speak with a little 
authority, having been lately President of the Institute of Marine Engineers, 
comprising a very large majority of sea-going men; and then perhaps I also 
speak as a partner in a fairly large engineering firm. I do not propose to 
enter into any arguments why you do not get the men : it is sufficient that your 
lordship does not get the men, and will not get them uppn the present con- 
ditions. Whether the Admiralty desire to get them is another matter, but 
the conditions offered by the Navy to engineers are not such as to tempt them 
to come to you in preference to the Mercantile Marine. Their rank is not 
recognised ; they are looked upon tacitly as an inferior class of men. and their 
status is ignored. The result of all that is, when you come vo the country for 
men you do not get them. I know that recruiting has been established in 
large towns, but on our own account in our own works our men have been 
strongly urged to join His Majesty's Navy, but the result of the attempt has 
been total failure. I think any person with any knowledge of the Admiralty's 
conditions will admit the supply of men for the engine-room is totally 
inadequate. 

it think that because I do not contradict these 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 147 

<;onfer with them, and who represent the engineers, and give them a sympathetic 
hearing and a consideration of what really amount to a very serious danger. 
I^Applause.) 

Mr. W. Allan — My Lord Selborne and Lords of the Admiralty, this is a 
question with which I can safely say I am acquainted. I can only tell your 
lordships that, however you may look at the matter, from the letters I have 
received — many of them from engineer officers, almost from every station in 
the world, I gather the same complaint and the same tone of dissatisfaction at 
the condition of things. That is what I find in these letters. It must be borne 
in mind that candidates and engineers in His Majesty's ships are not the same 
class of men as they were forty or thirty years ago; it must also be borne in 
mind that the ships are not the same. It must also be borne in mind that 
the modern warship is a huge mass of machinery of all kinds. You have all 
kinds of machinery in these vessels — hydraulic, electric, and steam and every 
sort of scientific appliance. Then all that machinery is practically under the 
control, and I would say its destiny is practically in the hands of the engineer- 
ing staff. Your machinery for turning your turrets and your machinery for 
working your guns, is practically all in the hands of the engineering staff. 
Therefore, engineers in your Navy are not the same as they were twenty years 
ago. What then, are we face to face with? We are face to face with the 
indubitable fact that your ships have not sufficient engineers or stokers; we 
are face to face with the fact that the engineers who are present on board ship 
are at this present moment very much, dissatisfied with the condition of things 
in which they are placed on board His Majesty's ships. The honourable and 
gallant Admiral shakes his head, and I have discussed this matter with him 
many times before, many years ago. But I feel we have been too much used 
to shaking of heads over engineering questions. That is not the way to settle 
the problem. To settle the problem in the right way, the thing must be 
gasped from its bottom upwards. How can we get the men and how shall 
we treat them. We have come to a time now. Lord Selborne, at the present 
day, we have conle to a period when you cannot place a scientific man in an 
inferior position. You cannot put him in a subordinate position, must make 
him equal to any officer in the ship ; you must give him an executive rank 
according to the period he has served, and according to the ability he has 
shown; you cannot get out of it; you must give that man control over his men. 
Ihe men are taken out of his control for a time and are taught drilling and 
firing, and when they come down into the stokehold again they laugh at the 
engineers. (Lord Selborne shakes his head.) I have it in writing — particulars 
of the condition the engineers are placed in. Many a court martial has taken 
place for petty insults to an engineer, but they do not report everything; it 
would never do, and they do not do it. I want to get out of that difficulty 
and to make the Navy what it should be. We are all Nationalists and 
Imperialists in this room, and we all want to see a great, strong, bold, healthy 
Navy; every officer pulling at one rope. At present, the position of the 
engineers is something which ought to be taken in hand and righted; the 
matter should be remedied, and could be remedied by giving them executive 
rank, and making them feel it is something of worth, and that it is an honour 
to be on board one of His Majesty's ships. That would not affect the discipline 
at all in anything but an advantageous way. The captain would be the 
captain, but the firemen and stokers would feel that the engineer was an 
officer, and a superior officer over them, and an improved system of discipline 
would thus be maintained. I am fully satisfied, Lord Selborne, that you will 



148 THE E^GIX£EIl BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 



oamestly (consider the matter we have brought before foil, and T have every 
coofidenoe in this myself. I laaj say the same to the Secretary of the 
Admiralty, and of the other honourable officials of the Admiralty — I have 
every coclidence in them, that they will grapple with subjects and with these 
matters that tend to weaken the Navy. You cannot get the men ; I know the 
difficulty which has been experienced in thia respect. In our own shop we 
have endeavoured to g^et lads, when their apprenticeship is out, to join the 
Navy, but they refuse. I would therefore say. Lord Selbomc, that all this 
shows thst the outline you must take, is this, and I Bay it with all sincerity, 
you must give these men executive rank. It will not endanger the position of 
the ship, but enhance it. Give the men a standing and make them feel that 
the uniform they wear is one to be wisely worn and honoured, and not 
degraded. (Applauee.) 

Sir JoHH CoLOUB — Lord Setbome, I have been asked to come here to-day 
and I have with great pleasure, and will now say a few words regarding the 
Deputation. You, sir, the other day, very properly remarked in the House 
of Lords how great were the difficulties with which the Admiralty had to 
deal at the present time. I have heard much about the inefficieucy of certain 
branches in the Royal Navy, and with regard to the particular question now 
raised, I regard it as one of the greatest difficulties with which the Admiralty 
have to deal with. I came here to-day because I think the time has arrived 
for really facing the difficulty in some definite way — in a more definite way at 
any rate than has as yet been done. There is a good deal of ground to travel 
over, but I will not occupy your time for more than five or six minutes. Just 
let me draw your attention to one fact; with regard to the pmoiind of the 
Kavy, and especially with regard to this part ot the question — why we have 
arrived at the jiresent state of dissatisfaction and difhculty. ^Ve have arrived 
at it, I think, through a long series of administrative compromise between 
the force of sentiment and of tradition on tlie one hand, and the force of facts 
produced by the progrese of mechanical science on the other. That I take it is 
the fact. I remember hearing a distinguished Admiral, with Bags flying, 
declare that a naval war could not be carried on with steam ; that the " Tea- 
kettle " as it was called, was useful to overtake an enemy, but the first thing an 
enemy would do when they came up with it would be to put the fires out. I 
mention that as showing the force which this tradition and this Bentiment~-I 
may call it, had on the administration in past years. Now, sir, in IS5S, 
e had the last inquiry into the ptnonntl and organization of the Navy. 




THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 149» 

branch, and in 1900, as you know, my lord, it is over 24 per cent. If you 
have examined the returns you will find in every part of that personnel there 
is — in the engineering department — an increasing ratio; for instance, if you 
take 1888 to 1900 you will find the increase in the ratio made in those twelve 
years was a great deal more than that made in the previous thirty. That is 
how you have arrived at the present state of things. There has been a great 
numerical increase, but the particular situation of the personnel and their 
position in relation to the fleet is exactly the same, precisely the same as was* 
the case in the days of the old fleet. You have therefore this fact, that the 
engineering branch is still regarded as a group of civil units put into warships, 
and has neither obtained organization nor an executive part in the ship'& 
complement complete in itself. That is the position, and I am convinced it is 
not a satisfactory position with regard to the good of the naval service. T.t is 
unsatisfactory I think to this extent — that it really repels more than attracts 
men from the engineering works of this country. Therefore, sir, I think the 
time has come for facing this question, not by any revolutionary process, but 
by such statesmanship as will remedy the difficulties at present raised. I 
would remind you, sir, that there are a great number of very distinguished 
Admirals — Sir John Hopkins, Admiral Fitzgerald, Admiral Henderson and Sir 
Edward Freemantle, etc., who agree. Sir Edward Freemantle said the other 
day that the g^reat question " above all questions " — ^to use his exact words, 
was the question of the amalgamation of the engineer with the executive 
branch. I cannot go to that extent, and I cannot satisfy myself that the step 
taken by America has been the right one, but I do certainly think that the time 
has come for recognising that some such an amalgamation must come about, 
and we have to try and see how that can come about in the easiest manner 
and in the easiest way in His Majesty's fleet, and this is the matter to which 
the earnest attention of the Admiralty is directed. I would submit to the 
Admiralty for their earnest consideration the fact that the time has now come 
for instituting an engineering branch as a corps of itself — the Royal Naval 
Engineers — and treating and regarding it as a combatant branch of the Navy 
and conferring on it executive functions and responsibility in itself for the 
special functions it has to perform, and makiug it an independent body. Then, 
I think, by taking that course, you would be rendering due importance to the 
engineering branch of the Navy, and be making it more attractive, and prepar- 
ing the way for those changes which I think mechanical science will certainly 
force upon you very soon. To delay making these preparations is not 
advantageous to the interests of His Majesty's fleet, nor to the engineering 
branch of the service. 

Lord SxLBOBNE — Another question I should like to ask. Do I understand, 
sir, that from your point of view the most advantageous solution of the question 
is amalgamation? 

Sir J. CoLOMB — I think that will come in the future. I differ from Sir 
Edward Freemantle in that respect, but it might be developed in the future. 

Lord Selbobnb — You think eventually it should be amalgamation. I 
wanted to ask you about that; you think that establishing a separate corps- 
would assist your desire for amalgamation hereafter? 

Sir J. CoLOKB — I cannot help thinking so. I think it has this advantage — 
that it certainly gets rid of many of the difficulties which you have in your 



150 THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

present position, and organises the particular branch. It is too early to deal 
with amalgamation, but it is 'easier to amalgamate between two organised 
parties than with one organised party, and the other disorganised, consisting 
of scattered units. 

Sir FoBTESCUE Flanneey — There are several other members present who 
are prepared to address your lordship, but I am unwilling that an undue 
advantage should be taken of this occasion. (Hear, hear.) I will ask Mr. 
Withy, the President of the North East Coast Institute of Engineers. 

Mr. Henby Withy — I have pleasure in coming here to support this Deputa- 
tion. I may say. Lord Selborne, that this plan was fully discussed at a meeting 
of our Institution, and the view there taken was that certain changes were 
necessary in the organisation of the Navy and in the status of the engineers. 
We felt that the position of the engineers should be made more clear, and we 
believe that the discipline of the engine-room would be much more easily 
arrived at by giving engineer officers executive rank, than of their having 
any complaint of insubordination, or anything of that sort referred to the 
executive branch of the naval officers. I am told that the Royal Marines 
number 18,000, and that the personnel of the engineering branch number 27,000, 
and I think perhaps that is an argument why the engineers might be made a 
separate executive body. I do not consider that there will be or would be any 
friction between engineer officers and Naval officers, or any more than there is 
between the Royal Marine officers and the Naval officers. The question of the 
reserve of men for the Navy is important. I am told that there is a reserve 
list of engineers who may be called upon to serve, but I am inclined to think 
there will be very great difficulty in getting them, and in time of war I presume 
they will be all over the country and all over the world. Further, the 
engineering work on board a line of battleship is so specialised that I am 
afraid the ordinary engineer of the mercantile marine would hardly be able to 
take his place on board a line of battleship, or be able to attend to any special 
machine he might be asked to look after. He would not be acquainted with 
hydraulic or electrical machinery. Another thing which would unfit him for 
doing duty on a line of battleship would be that he would probably be unfitted 
for the discipline, and would find it very irksome, as it would be to the ordinary 
mercantile marine engineer. The other question which seemed to us of very 
much importance at our Institution was the training of your engineers. 

Lord SEiiBOBNE — In reference to your remarks, do you suggest it is quite 
impossible to have a reserve of engineers? 

Mr. Henby Withy — I would not like to say it was impossible. I think 
they should be men trained in the Navy. (Hear, hear.) I do not think the 
ordinary engineer on board a mercantile vessel qualified to take charge of the 
delicate machinery on board a man-of-war. (Hear, hear.) It would be very 
difficult. I have a good deal of experience, and as years pass by, men get more 
and more specialised. Men are specialised at hydraulic machinery, or at 
electrical machinery and so forth, and we have fewer all-round men than we 
had a few years ago. With regard to the training of the young engineers, our 
Institution felt that the matter required consideration. W^e had no suggestions 
to offer, but we feel that the matter is worth the earliest attention of the 
Admiralty, and if they are able, the engineering branch of the Service should 
be made more attractive and more popular, when better men would join. I do 
not suggest there are not proper men, but there is a difficulty in getting men of 



THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 151 

the right class; if the Service was made more popular, better men would join, 
and there would be more enthusiasm to put their whole interests into the work 
and do the very best they could. We urge upon your lordship the consideration 
of our petition. 

Mr. John Cobbt (President of the Institute of Marine Engineers) — My 
lord, I had not intended speaking on this subject. I have only recently been 
connected with the Institution, but as a practical shipowner this is a subject 
I take great interest in. I know the great importance of having an efficient 
engine-room staff. In time of peace and war, the chief engineer is the most 
important man on board your ship, because all the machinery of that ship is 
under his charge, and if he is not a man of power and ability, or does not know 
how to use his power and ability, so as to impress the personnel of his staff, you 
will not have that efficiency which is absolutely necessary. It has been said, 
and said very truly, that the position of machinery has increased enormously. 
Everything now on board ship is done by machinery, and it requires a very 
able man, and a very clear-headed man, to be ready and competent at times and 
under all emergencies, and to make the best of circumstances that may arrive. 
You must have men of first-class ability, and you must give them that position 
which their training, their knowledge, and their capacity warrants them in 
expecting. With regard to economy, we all know how important it is for a 
ship to be economically managed, and if you have men who do not understand, 
and cannot understand the engine-room, you have a very inefficient ship, and 
therefore an expensive ship. With capable engineers, however, everything 
works smoothly; the whole staff work harmoniously; but you must have the 
right class of men and you must get the right class of men, and to get them 
you must give them a position which I think, and believe is, really the thing 
they require. I think matters have been fully explained already, and that I 
need say no more. I had not intended to speak, and I trust you will excuse me. 

Sir FoBTBSCTJS Flannery — There are others who are prepared to speak. 
I think that now the matter has been fully explained to your lordship, and that 
probably it will not be necessary for me to call upon anyone else, unless there 
are any of my honourable colleagues who would wish to speak. 

Lord Selbobne — My time is entirely at your disposal. 

Sir FoBTESCUB Flannery — If there are any of my honourable colleagues 
who wish to speak, I am sure Lord Selbome will be ready and pleased to hear 
them. Sir Edward Reed is unable to be present to-day, but writes me a letter 
from which I will read an extract. He says : — 

** You and the other Members of the Deputation should quite 
understand, I hope, that my interest in the question of the Royal 
Naval Engineers is in no way abated, and that I believe the Naval 
Service is running the greatest risks by withholding from the engineer 
officers their rights, and that executive authority of engine-room and 
stokeholds, which are as essential in time of peace as they will be in 
times of war." 

My lord, I think we have said now all that is necessary or proper, in order 
to fully lay the matter before you. 

Mr. Mather, M.P. — I would just like to add a word or two, although I 
liave not been invited to do so. I would' suggest to the First Lord of the 



152 THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

Admiralty this fact, that we have not arrived at any finality in the mechanism, 
required on board. So far as the future is concerned, it is a question of speed 
which lies at the root of all the organization, I think, on board ship. The 
fleetest fleet must necessarily be the commanding fleet of the future, and to 
achieve that end, of course, mechanism of a more and more perfect character 
will be required as time goes on. Therefore the importance of the engineering 
staff for a man-of-war, and for vessels of war becomes, and will become, a 
matter of increasing volume. I venture to think that much of the trouble that 
has arisen in the Navy of late in connection with the use of the water-tube 
boilers — if my friend, the honourable member for Gateshead, will forgave me 
for introducing the point — ^I think that much of that trouble might have 
been avoided had the engineering staff possessed that executive rank which 
would have enabled it to utilise the knowledge of its engineers for the purpose 
of advising the captain of the ship and others in authority, and responsible for 
the charge of this branch of the naval equipment; if the staff had had those 
opportunities, I think much trouble and danger might have been avoided, and 
many valuable suggestions might have been given from the engineering staff 
had they possessed that rank and position which would have enabled them 
to speak to their superior officers. 

Another point I wish to lay before your lordship, is that this Deputation 
is not pleading for a matter of personal vanity. (Hear, hear.) We are not 
here to express to you that we have as engineers great responsibilities in our 
profession, coupled with duties of enormous importance, and that that fact 
is not sufficiently recognised by the Admiralty. It is not upon that point 
that the matter turns; we urge that if a proper rank was given to engineers, 
and an executive power invested in them, that there would be a largely 
increased number of men than at present rush to serve His Majesty's Navy. 
It should be urged that such a position is a highly honourable employment, 
and from that point of view the question of rank becomes of some importance 
certainly. We have been told that gentlemen in this room have not been 
successful in inducing men in their employ to join the Navy, but this would 
not be the case were it told them that in joining the Navy they would have an 
officer's rank g^iven them, which the man could follow up and improve according 
to his ability. That would have an enormous effect upon the personnel we 
are concerned with, and more and better men would be willing to join, if they 
felt that in doing so they were rendering an important service and filling a 
responsible position in joining as an engineer in His Majesty's Navy. I would 
therefore urge upon your lordship to look upon this matter from the point 
of view of the loyal service rendered to the country by the engineers. They 
are a profession of men developed by national methods, and a much higher 
class of men than thoy were forty years ago. That class of men is certainly 
required in the Navy in increasing numbers in view of the increasing amount 
and complexity of the mechanism and the multiplicity of mechanical operations 
on board a man-of-war, which are being added to day by day and will increase 
more and more. I think that with the changes as suggested there will be 
increased utility and satisfaction amongst those who have to serve that 
department. 

Lord Selbobne — There is a misapprehension in what you said about the 
Belleville boilers. Engineer officers have had the most ample opportunities 
either through the captain of the ship or through the engineer-in-chief of 
making any observations they chose, and that was done from time to time. 
(Hear, hear.) 



THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 158 

Mr. Matheb — They may have the opportunity now, but I am only just 
pointing out that by introducing this executive power amongst engineers 
you not only give them the opportunity to make suggestions, but it becomes 
a matter of direct responsibility. 

Lord SsLBOBNB — Every engineer considers he is responsible for making 
what suggestions experience suggests; I think he is responsible for that. 
Oentlemen, I ventured to say when we commenced this very interesting meeting 
that I was not going to make you any speech, but that I was going to listen, 
and I shall, with your permission, maintain that line. All that you have 
said will be most carefully followed and considered by us, though if I do not 
contradict any of the statements it must not be inferred from that that I 
admit them. For instance, I must not pass over the suggestion which has 
been made that the engineering branch of the Royal Navy does not adequately 
perform its important functions. I cannot admit that for a single moment; 
nor do I admit for a single moment that there is any want of discipline in the 
engine-room or the stokehold; I do not think that is really so. I must also 
at once deny the suggestion that the stokehold and engine-room artificers 
do not show that strict respect which discipline enjoins towards the engineer 
officers. Of course, the contention which I think has run through many of 
the speeches is that the whole Department is undermanned, and that there 
ought to be a great many more engineer officers in the Navy. That, of course, 
is a matter of opinion, though I do not admit the fact. It is also perfectly 
fair for gentlemen of experience to express an opinion, and to say that we 
admit as officers into the Navy some gentlemen who do not come up to the 
standard. It is, of course, perfectly legitimate to hold and to lay down that 
opinion, though I do not admit the truth of it. Again I do not admit that 
we do not get the numbers that we ask Parliament for, and though we may 
make our standard easy we get the men up to it, and we get those we ask 
for according to our standard. The numbers in July were 978, and 963 were 
obtained, and we expect to make the other 15 up before the close of the year. 
I only mention that in order to differentiate between what do seem to me to be 
fair subjects for an expression of opinion, and what represent misrepresenta- 
tions. There is only one point I wish to refer to, although it has not been 
alluded to in the speeches that we have heard to-day, but it is included in 
the Memorandum. That is a suggestion which has been repeatedly made, 
not only with respect to the engineering branch of the Navy, but in other 
branches of the Navy also— that there ought to be a representative of the 
branch on the Board of the Admiralty. Now, that suggestion is only made out 
of a complete misunderstanding of what the Board of Admiralty is. The Board 
has not been and never will be a collection of the Heads of Departments, but 
consists of the Lord High Admiral, or a number of gentlemen selected by 
the Crown. The Lord High Admiral you might compare to the Secretary 
of State for War and the Commander-in-Chief rolled into one; those are his 
functions and what the Board of Admiralty has always been. When it has 
not been the Lord High Admiral, it has been a number of gentlemen selected 
by the Crown who hold that particular office under commission. It is open 
to the Crown to change members of the Board, and to elect members on the 
Board. The Comptroller, for instance, has been on and off, and when he is 
on he may be off again. A civil engineer has been placed on the Board at 
one time, but he is not there now. I merely point to that to show you that 
it is a misrepresentation to state or to assume that the Board of Admiralty 
is a collection of Heads of Departments. It is no more that than the Secretary 



154 



;USSION— THE 



BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 



of State for War and the Coinmander-in-Chief themselvea represent the Heads 
of Departmente. The Heads of Departments — the Head of the Engineers, the 
Head of the Marines, and the head of any other branch of the Service have 
exactly the same means, and the same power of representing their case, and of 
putting forward their points to the Board of Admiralty as the Quarter-master 
General, the Paymaster-Oeneral, and the Inspector-General of tlie Forces 
have to the Commander-in-Chief and the Secretary of State for War. Of 
course, it may be a matter of opinion as to whether or not there should he a 
collection of Heads of Departments, but that is another point with which 
however, I do not agree. The point I want to put forward is that to have a 
collection of Heads of Departments would be to have a complete reversal of 
the whole of the history of the Admiralty and of its origin. I have nothing 
more to say to^ay, gentlemen, but to thank you for the able and full manner 
in which you have put your case before me. 

Sir FoBTBSCUB Flanwebt — It now but remains for me on behalf of the 
Deputation to express our deep gratitude to your Lordship for the attention 
wiUi which you have listened to every one of our arguments and for the very 
great courtesy with which you and your colleagues have received us on this 



These remarks were received with applause, and the Deputation withdrew. 



DISCUSSION. 

The Preside.st — -I have a. few letters of apology to read. Mr 
W. R. Plummer, M.P., writes to regret it ia impossible for him 
to be present, but expresses his sympathy with Mr. Moriaon's 
views. Mr. George Macfarlane, of GHasgow, regrets that lie is 
not able to be present, as he has to be in London. Mr. Mather. 
M.P., is away from home, and his secretary writes to say that he is 
sorry he cannot be here. I have a telegram from Mr. Bobert 
Thompson, one of our Past-presidenta, which says : — " I cannot 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 165 

Morison ou " The British Naval Engineer," and our best thanks are 
due to him for returning to a subject of such national importance, 
for the expectation that the efEorts of members of engineering 
institutions following his first pai)er would be the prelude to 
energetic action on the part of the Admiralty, has been grievously 
disappointed, and anything that has been done has only been 
trivial and of a spasmodic character, and apparently we are where 
we were. In the course of the able paper to which we have had 
the pleasure of listening this evening, Mr. Morison clearly in- 
dicates one important direction in which — to quote the words of 
the Prince of Wales at the Guildhall banquet^ — ** England must 
wake up," and throws a flood of light upon the fool's paradise 
inhabited by our somnolent Lords of the Admiralty. The epithet 
'* Somnolent " is, I think, a charitable one, for it would be a 
grave injustice to attribute "Wakefulness" to them in face of 
the alarming facts disclosed in the diagrams we have before us, 
and which have grown under their supervision and are directly 
and necessarily the result of their policy in regard to the engineer- 
ing branch of the Navy. Judging from the past, however, the 
deep sleep of that august body is unlikely to be seriously dis- 
turbed unless the members of engineering societies, such as ours, 
back up the patriotic appeal of the author of the paper. Let us 
make up our minds to do so with our whole energies alive to 
the importance of this question, which is the efficiency of the 
Navy. Our best thanks, I am sure, are not only due but are 
gladly tendered to him for the trouble and patient research that 
he has expended in collecting and putting before us this ex- 
haustive, though pitiless exposition of facts and figures. As 
engineers, we cannot but deeply regret that our brothers in the 
profession, who have elected to sei-ve His Majesty afloat, should 
be subjected to such disabilities in carrying out their numerous 
and onerous duties, and must be concerned to know that the 
country is not getting even the number of engineer officers and 
men that the authorities themselves admit are necessary to 
man and work our ships. It is truly alarming to think for a 
moment even that our Navy, which is the main insurance for the 
safety of our person and property to-day, and on which our exist- 
ence as a nation may some day depend, should have any weakness. 
We cannot look at a daily paper without this reflection being 
forced upon us, and so the details that Mr. Morison has brought 



156 DISCrSSION— THE EXGINEEK BEA-JCH OF H.M. XAVY. 

before us are lifted away from all question of mere personal, or 
even professional importance, into matters of national interest. 
Although not well versed in the history of the Xavy, I have been 
able to follow the growth of the engineering branch, and the 
worst aspect of this important and complicated question is the 
fact that it has been under the consideration of the Admiralty 
several times with no practical result. An Admiralty Committee 
sat to consider the manning of the Navy over ten years ago, and 
the result of their deliberations was to reduce the complement 
■over 12 per cent. Since then it has been accepted that assistance 
in coal trimming is to l>e rendered, whenever a ship is required to 
steam at anything above a small proportion of her full speed 
power, by men whose duty it is to work the guns and supply them 
with ammunition. What must happen when both the full power 
of the engines and the fighting of the guns are simultaneously 
required? Can any thinking man, whether he knows anything 
about a ship or not, seriously contemplate that we shall tight a 
bit and stoke a bit, and do both successfully ? To put it mildly, 
is there not a risk of our being unable to do so, and is there any 
necessity for our running this risk? Suggestions for reform 
have, time after time, been made by the engineering world and 
are once again reiterated by Mr. Morison in his paper. There is, 
as we all know, a repugnance for the word " cannot " on the pait 
of every engineer worthy of the name. It is an essentia] part of 
his training to tackle all difficulties and overcome them, and this 
very quality has, I fear, been traded upon in the case of our Xaval 
brethren, by gradually increasing their duties and relatively 
reducing their staff in numbers and quality, till the pi-esent 
dangerous state of affairs has been reached, as is instanced by 




DISCUSSIO' THE EXGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 167 

ling must have an end, for a time will come when we shall not 
get through, and every day this condition exists multiplies the 
difficulties eventually to be faced. Mr. Morison now gives us 
a further insight into the existing difficulties, and it is clearly 
our duty, in the best interests of the country, to follow his example 
and not be satisfied until this dangerous state of the engineering 
branch of the Xavy is remedied. As Mr. Morison points out, 
naval engineers have had serious grounds for discontent for many 
years, and their claims have been repeatedly brought before tlie 
Admiralty Board with little, if any, result, and this magnifies 
the danger, for no body of men, however loyal, can so efficiently 
serve when they labour under such disadvantageous conditions. 
Events move rapidly in these days, and the services of our Xavy 
might any day be suddenly required. The bad moral effect 
brought about by many years of neglect will take many years of 
serious attention to remedy. That the effect is extending further 
is being very strongly emphasised at the present moment by the 
scarcity of engineer students. So marked is this decline that the 
Admiralty, as Mr. Morison points out, have had to ask the head- 
masters of our schools to advocate the engineering branch of the 
Navy as an opening for the youth of the country. The timely 
rebuke administered by the headmasters should be a warning to 
the Admiralty that the liritish public is awakening to the peril 
of the naval situation of to-day. Mr. Morison gives a further 
instance of the short-sighted policy pursued by the Admiralty, 
when he refers to their recent action with respect to the electrical 
appliances and fittings on board a warship. Under the best con- 
ditions some confusion is likely to occur during a naval engage- 
ment, but it is terrible to contemplate the hideous possibilities 
when confusion has been rendered inevitable by a short-sighted 
and wrong-headed policy. The sister service has been, and is, on 
a severe trial in South Africa, and apparently it is the custom, 
when a breakdown occui's, and some have been experienced in 
South Africa, to attribute it to a fault in the system hitherto 
pursued, which breaks down in the hour of trial. A few shufflings 
of positions amongst those responsible for the system and the 
incident is considered closed. Surely these breakdowns are due 
to a want of foresight on the part of men placed in responsible 
positions, whose duty it is to exercise foresight. We have a 
system with regard to the engineering branch of the Xavy pur- 

VOL. XVIII.-1902. 12 



]58 Discrssiox — THE engixeee beaxcu of h,m. navy. 

sued which, as long ago as 1858, tJie Admiralty were warned 
against, and now, I may say, universally condemned by engineers. 
Apparently this system is to be pursued until we have a great 
naval disaster. Other nations are becoming alive to the necessity 
of action, for whilst some have decided to form an Engineer Corps 
in connection with their navies others are considering the advis- 
ability of doing so. Let ub hope ours will do the same before 
it is too late. In conclusion, I would personally heartily con- 
gratulate Mr. Morison on the courage and ability with which he 
has tackled what must be a distasteful subject, for it is always 
more pleasant to praise than to find fault. The facts are mar- 
shalled before us in a manner capable of being understood by 
those to whom enp-ineering and its difficult work is a sealed book. 
The question of our food supply in time of war was raised and 
discussed in the House of Commons early this session, and one 
speaker I saw, remarked that we must depend for our bread and 
butt*r in time of war, not on granaries, but on our fleet. 
Anyone reading Mr. Morison's paper must feel that all is not being 
done to make this dependence sure. 

Mr. -T. A. BEnriHOOK, R.N., Chief Inspector of Machinery 
(retired), said — This paper I consider a very valuable con- 
tribution to the subject of naval efficiency. I think, too, 
that the author is to be congratulated upon the clear and 
hicid manner in which the facts are brought forward, and 
that without any exaggeration. It expresses the views I hold on 
this question in better language than I am able to command, 
and it also treats the subject in a very able and comprehensive 
!r, so that there is little I can add to enhance the value 




DISCUSSION— THE ENGIXEKR BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 159 

without saying, that where the competition for entry is less keen, 
more lads of less ability and intelligence gain admission. The 
same is more marked with regard to engine-room artificers. The 
standard is practically lowered, for when I had the duty of exam- 
ining candidates about 28 years ago we had a very keen competi- 
tion fol- vacancies. The men entered were not only highly skilled 
workmen, but men of superior intelligence. Now, unfortun- 
ately, the number of candidates do not anything like come up, and 
sometimes are almost nil, for the number of vacancies that exist, 
and consequently you are obliged to pass those who can merely 
scrape through — moderate workmen only, who can just do the 
trial work that is placed before them, and who can just pass the 
educational requirements. Lastly, the stoker ratings are not 
of the same physique and intelligence as they were. So that one 
cannot help noticing that, while the Admiralty specify, when 
ordering ships and machinery, that every part shall be of the 
l)est material and workmanship, they in effect specify that any 
^ne is good enough for the personnel of the engine-room. Re- 
"verting again to numbers it should be noted that, apart from the 
lack of men in ships now in commission, the utmost difhculty 
is always felt in finding sufficient men to rill up the restricted 
^3omplements of ships for the manoeuvres. I can speak correctly 
^:>n that point, because I happened to be associated with the Man- 
^toing Committee for some years. Formerly the engine-room com- 
]J>lement provided sufficient men for continuous steaming at 70 per 
^z^eiit. of the full power, and extra men for other duties; subse^ 
c^uently the complement allowed was for only 50 per cent, of the 
full power, and no extra men for extraneous servicer. But when 
Expostulated with the reply was, " You can always get deck 
liands whenever you require a higher speed." In peace time we 
^rnay get the men, but in war time can we get the mea? I am 
iDold enough to say that the deck officers will require their men 
for preparing guns and various other things, and as long as that 
csritical period exists pending a naval engagement we shall not get 
a. man from the deck to assist the stokers below. Besides the 
difficulty experienced in ships on ordinary service the utmost 
difficulty is found in commissi oning' extra ships, such as during 
the time of the summer manoeuvres, when the Xavy is supposed to 
be put into a condition for war time ; not only are men taken from 
many duties for which they are actually required on shore, but 



160 mSCCSSIOS THE ENGINEUE BEANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

even thea sliips have to go with still further reduced compleineats. 
Another very serious point to consider is this — that having depleted 
the whole of your depots or reserve of men we have absolutely no 
reserves of men or ofRcerB to fall back lipon should we be engaged 
in war, when there would be a great wastage of officers and men, 
and there would be considerably more in the engine-room depart- 
ment in proportion, because they have greater risk. Then on 
the question of discipline which has been referred to, I am glad 
Mr, Morison has drawn attention to that point because everjone 
who has had command of men knows the great difference between 
a cheerful and willing obedience and a sullen and grudging one. 
Even the best of men are sometimes tempted to yield to the latter 
when they feel that their energies are being over-taxed, while the 
lazy and indifferent will certainly require the exercise of un- 
doubted authority to prevent the appearance of resentment, and 
these are the men who are ever ready to question the restricted 
authority of the engineer officer. There is in the regulations some 
subtle difference made between giving a command and giving 
an order. An engineer otficer belonging to the civil branch is 
never to command, but he may give orders in his department, and 
every facility, they toll us, is to be given to the officers to ensure 
their orders being obeyed. But they are never to give a command. 
I do not understand the difEerence myself, but it is so. On the next 
point, with r^ard to promotion, Mr, Morison has compared the 
ages at which engineer officers attain the several ranks as com- 
pared with other officers, but I should like to add that it must also 
be borne in mind that the duties carried out by the engineer officers 
are performed under conditions which severely fax their physical 
endiirance. It is a different matter serving on deck in the fresh 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 161 

should receive better pay, lunk for rank, considering his high 
responsibilities. I would just like to put Mr. Morison right on 
one point. He compared the " Britannia " with the Engineering 
College at Keyham. He mentions the fact that the Admiralty 
Superintendent is regarded as the head of the College. Well, 
so he is, but he forgets to put down that the " Britannia " has a 
similar head, that is, the Commander-in-Chief at Devonport, who 
is more than a nominal head, for he exercises a considerable amount 
of interest in and supervision over the *' Britannia.'' That is a 
X)oint that should not be lost sight of. The next point upon which 
3 wish to say a few words is the military status in respect to the 
engineer officer. The raison (Vetre of a ship of war is that it 
should be a fighting machine, therefore everything in such a ship 
should be considered from that point of view. This is the case 
so far as the construction and arrangement of the ship is con- 
cerned, but we see that it does not, unfortunately, obtain in 
respect to the personnel. It is surely an anomaly that anyone 
serving in a ship of war should be considered a non-combatant. 
Everyone on board has to do his share in making the ship as 
effective as possible for attack or defence, but this does not appear 
to be the view of those in authority when a large proportion of 
the crew are said to belong to the civil or non-combatant branch, 
and in effect told that they have no paii or lot in furthering the 
end for which the ship really exists. Surely the nation would 
expect that the whole of the crew should be available for and 
capable of carrying out any duties which will tend to place a man 
of war in the highest state of efficiency as a fighting machine, 
and that every officer and man on board, whatever his usual 
occupation may be, should be available for taking part in military 
operations both afloat and on shore. Especially should the officers 
and men of the engineering department be considered as combat- 
ants who in their usual avocations contribute so large a share in 
rendering the ship efficient for attack or defence, and as the 
numbers in the engine-room department form, or should 
form, a large proportion of the ship's crew, there may be circum- 
stances at some critical moment during an engagement when some 
of them would be required for service outside the machineiy de- 
partment, that is, for purely military duties ; and in the event of 
a naval contingent being landed for operations on shore, a large 
proportion of the engine-room complement might be available to 



162 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BKANCH OF H.M. NATT, 

join the contingent. Tliia is not a mere fancy but has actually 
occurred in every fight we have taken part in. That being so the 
position of the engineer officer should be such as to demand 
implicit obedience from all naval ratings, and this is only possible 
by his being given a military status. It should further be borne 
in mind that engineer officers have a large number of petty officers 
and men serving under their orders, and that they, with their 
men, during their ordinary duties are called upon to submit to 
risks greater than many others of their shipmates, in view of the 
probability of the boilers, engines and steam pipes being damaged 
by shot or shell or torpedo; and the possibilities of the vessel 
being rammed. I may remark, for instance, in the case of the 
" Victoria," not in war time, only one engineer officer was saved 
whereas only one lieutenant was drowned ; and we know with 
regard to the unfortunate men a large proportion of the engineer- 
ing department perished in that ill-fated ship. It is consequently 
necessary that the engineer officers should exhibit to their men 
an example of courage and coolness for the preservation of 
discipline and the ensuring of prompt attention and obedience to 
orders, but it becomes difficult to exhibit these necessarj' qualities 
if the spirit of these officers is crushed by the continual repression 
and n on -recognition from those in authority. The engineer 
officers and the engine-room artificers during their junior time, 
and the stoker ratings during their career, go through a certain 
amount of drill in small arms, etc., and this might be extended 
with advantage to the sen-ice for both officers and men to give 
them greater proficiency in small arms practice and they should 
also be exercised with the larger guns. The proposals to give a 
militaiy status to the enginf-room complements have been stig- 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 163 

therefore, should officers and men already subject to naval dis- 
cipline, and already partially instructed in military drill and 
practice, be made, during leisure from their ordinary occupations, 
fully competent to undertake military duties when called upon. 
The engineer officers and the engine-room ratings, I feel sui*e, 
will yield to none in their devotion to duty and their loyalty to 
their King and country. What do you understand by a military 
manP Most dictionaries will tell you it is a man belonging to 
the army, but the true definition is a man who bears arms, and 
whose business and duty it is to defend his country or attack its 
enemies. It is not only that naval engineers should be classed as 
military men, but what is quite as necessary is that they should 
receive the titles indicating their rank. Perhaps I may explain 
to you what the present engineer ranks are. An engineer student 
is said to rank with a naval cadet ; an assistant engineer with a 
sub-lieutenant in the navy or a lieutenant in the army ; an engineer 
with a lieutenant in the navy or a captain in the anny ; a chief 
engineer with a lieutenant of eight years' seniority in the navy or 
a major in the army ; a fleet engineer with a commander in the 
navy or a junior lieutenant-colonel in the army ; an inspector of 
machinery with a captain under three years in the navy or a 
lieutenant-colonel in the army ; a chief inspector of machinery' 
with a captain of three years in the navy or a colonel in the army, 
and engineer-in-chief of the fleet with a rear-admiral in the navy 
or a major-general in the army. The executive officers in the 
navy are designated by their titles and their rank is actual, but 
the rank of the engineer officer is only relative. "When an 
engineer enters the ser\'ice he is plain Mr. So-and-So, and when 
he leaves the service with a higher rank he is also plain Mr. 
So-and-So, giving no indication to the general public what his 
position may be. In fact, his rank is a bogus rank more than a 
real one, for he is excluded from receiving the full tokens of 
respect which are onlere<l for officei's holding actual rank. 
AVhile I was in conversation with a naval officer of 
high rank not long ago he actually did not know the difference 
between the different ranks in the engineer department. He did 
not know which was the higher rank — whether staff engineer or 
fleet engineer. If, then, a naval officer does not know the differ- 
ence, how in the world are the general public to know. It is 
very different in the army, because to whatever department of 



16i mscussio.v — the kngin'eee beanch of h,u. kavy, 

the army aa officer may be attached, whether the Ordnance Service 
Corps, the Commissariat Corps or the Medical Service Corps he 
has titles which clearly indicate the rank he holds and there is 
no reason why an engineer officer should not have a similar diatinc- 
lion. I mi)fht ffo on to speak of the power to inflict pMnishment, 
but if once the militaiy status is settle^l many other things will 
follow in natural course. I should also like to say a word or two 
on one proposal which has been advanced by opponents to the 
suggested reform of the status of the engineers of the Royal Na^-j-, 
and that is that eoiue of the executive officers should take up the 
study of engineering and take over the duties of the present 
engineer officers — who should be allowed to die out — and we see 
the beginning of such a scheme in the order referred to in the 
Addendum (o the paper. Such an arrangement, like the amalga- 
mation scheme, can only lead to the establishment of a body of 
imperfectly trained engineers, or amateur engineers if you like, 
who will naturally shun the most disagreeable and unpleasant 
part of the duties and leave that to tlie mechanic, warrant and 
petty officers. These men will soon find that the greater part of the 
onus and responsibility of maintaining the machinery in an 
eflicieut condition will devolve upon them, and then will begin 
to agitate for rank and status commensurate with their responsi- 
bilities. It is to be hoped, however, that the countrj- will demand 
that the costly machinen,- of our ships of war shall be entrusted 
to the care of thoroughly competent engineers of the highest skill 
and attflinuieutij, who must be traine4l from their youth up and 
who Hiust devote their lives to engineering. This is the only 
way to maintain our ships coutioually in the highest state of 
etKciency, and this is the condition of the X avy which the country 




DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 165- 

Mr. W. H. DuGDALE (Vice-President) said — I am sure 
every one of us who has listened to Mr. Morison's paper 
to-night must feel most indebted to him for the enormous 
amount of time and trouble which he has expended in pro- 
ducing this further contribution to such an important sub- 
ject, and thereby enabling this Institution once more to express 
its views upon those matters which are of such vital importance 
to the efficiency of the Navy and the safety of the British Empire. 
The necessity for another discussion is undoubtedly accentuated 
by the extraordinary Admiralty Order contained in the Addendum 
to Mr. Morison's paper, and which, although it may form a basis 
ior replies to unpleasant questions in the House of Commons, only 
proves to the engineering mind the utter inability of the 
Admiralty to realise the importance of the situation and the 
"terrible risk we shall run if we do not promptly and emphatically 
:raise our voices against the stubborn egotism of the present 
xegime. We, who live in an engineering world and whose lives 
»re devoted to the design and construction of the machinery, hulls 
^nd warlike equipment of warships, or of the fleets of merchant 
steamers which carry our flag into all parts of the world and upon 
xrhose regularity of transit our prosperity as a nation of traders 
^nd colonizers mainly depends, can fully realize the transcendent 
importance of this subject of naval engineering and its bearing 
Xijxjn the efficiency of the Navy. The history of engineering in 
"tr-he British Navy has been one of rapid development, a develop- 
^*3ient which has resulted in the mammoth battleships and cruisers 
"Vvith whose construction and manipulation we are all familiar ; 
^4nd has given to the nation a fleet of fast auxiliaries in the shape 
^^f our famed Atlantic liners, a development which has made the 
Existence of the fast torpedo boat possible, and which has brought 
^^dvantages and blessings in its train that were undreamt of fifty or 
^ixty years ago. Upon a previous occasion I pointed out how 
"^le evolution of a man of war during nearly 2,000 years had been 
^^radual and tentative until the introduction of iron and steam,. 
^ ince which the development has proceeded by leaps and bounds. 
XUntil nearly the middle of last century there was nothing on board 
l^is ship the sailor could not do: the manipulation of his vessel 
"^^as essentially an art, to-day it is most distinctly a science; a 
Condition entirely due to engineering — and yet, as Mr. Morison 
^iiost truly states, the naval officer of to-day either cannot or 




166 DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

will not differentiate between the engineer of to-day, with his 
innumerable duties and responsibilities, and the engine driver of 
fifty or sixty years ago. He cannot or will not put aside his 
fondly cherished feeling that he is the " Deus ex machina '' who 
not only knows everything, but can do everything. We are quite 
prepared to admit that in the early days of the poor old engine- 
driver he (the executive officer) might, with a certain amount of 
training, have taken charge of the department had it not been 
beneath his dignity. But that state of affairs^ soon passed away. 
The evolution or development of engineering has been much too 
rapid and the performance of the duties which now devolve upon 
the engineer can only be accomplished by experienced men with 
scientific attainments, convei'sant with the principles involved 
in the various branches of engineering under their control, and 
it is to the engineer more than anyone that we must look to retain 
and safeguard the old and proud position of Britain's principal 
bulwark of defence. And yet the history of the naval engineer 
has always been one of indiiference on the part of the responsible 
authorities at the Admiralty. It has frequently been a history 
of repression, and may have occasionally appeared to those who 
perhaps sympathize more warmly than others with the engineers 
in their unfortunate position, that it has also descended now and 
then to a history of persecution. As long as steam as an auxiliary 
either to the motive power of our warships, or as an aid to the 
manipulation of their weapons, remained in the inferior position 
it occupied for the first fifteen or twenty years after its introduc- 
tion into the Xavy, the matter might seem to be one that con- 
cerned the personal feelings of the naval engineers themselves 
rather than the public interests of the British nation. But the 
question has got far beyond the personal stage now, everything 
depends now in the British Navy upon the efficient performance 
of the naval engineers' duties, and upon the ability, zeal and 
determination which the engineer staffs bring to bear upon their 
important duties, and, therefore, any weak point either in the 
organization, administration or training of the engineer depart- 
ment of the Xavy calls for immediate remedy. I have already 
stated that the adaptation of engineering science has increased 
by leaps and bounds during the last few years, and the author 
of to-night's paper has informed us of the enormous increase in 
the horse-power of the propelling machinery alone and the conse- 



DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 167 

quent increase in the duties and responsibilities of the engineer 
staff during the same period. We are therefore in a position 
to gauge to a degree the disastrous effect which a policy of re- 
pression and a desire to depreciate the value of the engineer 
branch must have upon its members and upon the fighting power 
of our first line of defence. I mention propelling machinery 
only (although there are countless other machines on board a 
man-o'-war for which the engineers are responsible) because it 
is the intention of the Admiralty to relieve the naval engineer 
of certain duties with regard to the care and maintenance of 
hydraulic gun machinery and mountings and of the charge of 
dynamos, Whitehead torpedoes and their discharge tubes — I say 
nothing about the wisdom of such a step, it may be an advantage, 
but a captain of a merchant vessel would hardly allow an officer 
to repair his chronometer because he is in the habit of winding 
it up. The suggestion is too stupid to waste time in considering, 
though it would be somewhat entertaining to see the torpedo 
lieutenant taking to pieces and repairing* the delicate mechanism 
of a Whitehead toi'pedo. The author of the paper has pointed 
out the dangers of entrusting the care of machines to imperfectly 
trained mechanical officers — and he has drawn attention to the 
probable friction and certain disasters that are likely to result, 
and to the inconveniences that are likely to arise from the multi- 
plication of separate mechanical departments in a warship. 
The present step, whereby gunnery and torpedo lieutenants are 
to take charge of machines, is another indication of the determina- 
tion of the Lords of the Admiralty to repress the engineer and 
minimize his importance. It would be of interest to know 
whether the responsible engineer officials at the Admiralty were 
consulted about this change or whether they advised it. Person- 
ally I am of opinion that the head of the engineering profession 
at the Admiralty could never have been consulted on this matter, 
but that their Lordships have with their usual innate egotism 
ignored him and have referred the consideration of the ways 
and means to carry out their desires, to a small body consisting 
of the captains of the " Excellent " and " Vernon," and the Chief 
Inspector of Machinery of the Portsmouth Reserve. The two 
former officers are naturally advocates of any scheme which will 
enhance their own importance, and the latter is the subordinate 
professionally of the engineering head of the 'Srvj, In any 



168 OISCUSSIOX — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

case, if it ia necessary for all the working officers of the Britieh 
Navy to be engineers (and I believe that the formation of a 
separate engineer corps would be the most efficient step), why 
cannot the Admiralty have the courage of their opinions and 
amalgamate the two branches and so have eventually only one 
class of officer in the Navy, who must be perfectly trained in 
engineering as well as other duties? If the proposed alteration 
is an attempt to cut away the pretensions of the engineer to better 
treatment and to prevent engineering from attaining that position 
which is necessary in the true interests of the Navy, and which 
is as sure to come as it is certain that the sun will rise to-morrow, 
such an attempt will recoil upon the heads of the class of officers 
who are responsible for its introduction. But it will have a 
worse effect than this, it will strike a blow at tbe efficiency of the 
Navy in which we, as engineers, are vitaJly interested, and which 
we, of all other professions, are better able to appreciate and desire. 
iiov^ the point I wish to make in this matter is this — It does not 
matter one jot, so far as the importance of the object of Mr, Mori- 
SOI18 paper Js concerned, whether such a small portion of the 
engineers' duties are transferred to other officers or not. The 
engineers' importance to the Navy will still remain virtually as 
great : but I consider the Lords of the Admiralty, by their sudden 
determination to transfer certain duties to officers of their own 
branch, shew that they do not realise the importance of the sub- 
ject under consideration. Ever since the introduction of 
torpedoes, dynamos, and heavy guns worked either by hydraulic 
or by steam power, the engineer staffs of the various ships of 
H.M. Navj- have kept these things in a high state of efficiency 
notwithstanding the disadvantages they have from time to time 




DISCUSSION} THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 169 

But it is absolutely the fault of the official regime and this is 
the way in which the Admiralty are now endeavouring to screen 
their delinquencies in a matter which has extended over a period 
of many years, and are trying to cover their retreat because public 
opinion is becoming too strong. It is difficult to understand the 
spirit of cheerful optimism, amounting almost to levity, with 
which the Admiralty always appear to treat such an important 
matter. We have already seen what this kind of thing has led to 
in our experience in South Africa, and I have no hesitation in 
saying that this indifference — or worse — of the Admiralty towards 
engineering matters is just as likely to lead the nation into serious 
difficulty, if not disaster, should the Navy unfortunately be put 
to the same strain that the Army has been lately subjected to. 
The weakest link at present in the chain of naval defence is the 
unsatisfactory condition of the engineer branch. I cannot believe 
that the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty are relieving the 
engineer officers of the duties I have previously mentioned with 
any hope of increasing the efficiency of the Navy. It seems to 
me it is another attempt to keep the engineers in the background, 
not perhaps from any antagonism to the profession, but purely 
and simply to still further postpone, if possible, the re-organiza- 
tion of that branch, the necessity for which has now become acute. 
But after all the reason is not far to seek. The old-style naval 
officer of whom we have been so justly proud, with his glorious and 
historic traditions, is an almost extinct species ; the stem necessity 
for his existence is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. He 
undoubtedly recognizes this fact and is therefore determined to 
do all in his power to discourage the new naval officer whose pro- 
fession makes him so necessary for the efficiency of the Navy. 
Without whom in fact henceforth, the Navy cannot be ! And 
apropos of the question of naval efficiency, we cannot do better 
than carefully consider the remarks upon the sul)ject by Admiral 
Melville, the engineer-in-chief of the United States Navy, 
because his views are based upon actual war experience. We 
must remember that we have had no naval war exj)erience since 
the introduction of steam, whereas the United States Navy not 
only had the trying ordeal of their civil war, but their more 
recent experience against the Spanish fleet, and if anything can 
serve as an object lesson as to the advantages of engineering 
efficiency over inefficiency under conditions which were otherwise 



170 DISCrSSIOK — THK EXGIXEER BH-4XCU OF H.U. NAVT. 

essentially e<]ual, we have only to remember Ijie engagement at 
Santiago ami tlie chaae of the swift cruiser " Criatobal Colon " 
by the slower battleship "Oregon." The melancholy results 
of the opposition to the well-being and efficiency of the ^avy by 
the executive branch has been most eloquently told by Mr. Mori- 
son to-niffht and in the most impressive manner l^ the diagrams 
before us. Having taken up so much of your time I will only 
refer to two, viK,, that shewing the relative increase in horse- 
power and the decrease in applications per vacancy at the Royal 
Xaval Kngineers' College at Keyham, and that showing the 
decline in candidates for temporary service assistant engineers 
whien by Januarj-, 1902, has fallen to zero. What an admission 
to make to the universe, viz., that we who pride ourselves in our 
engineering progress and attainments have actually by arrogant 
and egotistical opposition succeeded in making one of our most 
honourable and important professions the most unpopular. But 
it is no use attempting it any longer, we might as well try to stem 
the flowing tide with the proverbial pitchfork, and if the necessary 
reform cannot be gracefully accomplished at Whitehall it behoves 
us to bring such pressure to bear as may be necessary' to enforce 
our just demands. AVe cannot afEord to sacrifice the prestige of 
our Na\"y and the safety and dignity of our Empire although 
this is surely what will happen unless the errors to which we 
draw attention are promptly rectified. One of the most import- 
ant of our demands is that the engineer, beinjn responsible for the 
etficient working and maintenance of practically all the material, 
should have military rank and control over his department. You 
will at once realise that it is absolutely impossible to maintain 
tlic necessary discipline and morale of a department if the 




DISCUSSIOX — ^THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 171 

portions of auxiliary machinery connected with respective duties. 
For instance, the gunneiy lieutenant has the hydraulic fittings 
connected with the guns and hydraulically worked machines con- 
nected therewith. But he has nothing to do with the hydraulic 
pumping machinery. The torpedo lieutenant has electric motors^ 
electric lighting, torpedoes and dischai^ges, but he doesn't generate 
the electricity nor yet take the responsibility of the air-com- 
pressing machinery. In fact, the engineer is responsible for the 
production of all the motive power. It is a matter for deep dis- 
appointment that no answer has yet been vouchsafed to the repre- 
sentatives of the combined parliamentry and engineering 
deputations which waited upon the first Lord of the Admiralty 
last Tuly, but the membera of the engineering profession will, 
I think, feel assured that the step which was taken then by the 
engineering institutions will be followed up until the present 
blot on the engineering administration of the Navy is effectually 
removed. I am sure that engineers of all shades of opinion and 
everybody in the country who takes the slightest interest in the 
Xavy must be convinced of the absolute necessity of the reforms 
in the engineer branch so ably advocated in the paper we have 
heard read this evening. 

Professor R. L. Weigiiton, M.A. (Vice-President) said — I con- 
gratulate Mr. Morison on this the second paper he has presented 
to the Institution on a subject of most pressing national import- 
ance. I am perfectly certain that all who have carefully read it 
will agree that the several points are well and tersely put, in 
language which could not be improved upon. The present paper 
adduces many new facts in supjwrt of the contentions of the first 
paper. To my mind the opinions expressed and the statements 
made in the Memorandum submitted by the deputation to the First 
Lord of the Admiralty in July last are amply justified, and proved 
in accordance with all the accepted laws of evidence. As the un- 
satisfactory nature of the reply of Lord Selbome to the deputation 
is the reason for the present paper, one naturally turns to the 
terms of that reply as the centre of interest. On page 153 of the 
paper, Appendix C, the gist of the reply will be found. 

In spite of all that has been already adduced. Lord Selborn(» 
states in language which admits of no ambiguity that he si ill 
holds : — 



172 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

(1) Tliat tlie engineer branch of the Royal Navy adequately 

performs its functions. 

(2) That there is no want of discipline in the engine-room 

or stokehold. 

(3) That the department is not undermanned. 

(4) That the Admiralty get the numbers they aak for, 

and they get them according to their own standard. 

(5) That it is not advisable to alter the constitution of the 

Board of Admiralty, so as to include the engineer 

element. 
These five points enbrace the principal questions raised in the 
Memorandum, and upon them the First Lord expresses himself 
clearly at variance with the Memorandum and the deputation. He 
said, and rightly so, that some of them dealt with matters of 
opinion. Hut with regai-d to others he used the words " misrepre- 
sentation." It is to be presumed he meant unintentional misrepre- 
sentation. But if this was the kind of misrepresentation to which 
he referred, why were these misrepresentations not corrected by 
some kind of evidence ? In all cases, evidence in detail was ad- 
duced in the paper on which the statements in the Memorandum 
were based. 

All the points except No. 4 may in a sense be considered as 
being largely matters of opinion. No. 4, however, deals with a 
pure matter of fact, and ought, therefore, to be susceptible of 
proof by evidence readily accessible to the Admiralty. The First 
Lord says — I assume he is correctly reported — "We get those we 
askforaccording to our standard." If this is so, then the standard 
must be a standard of failure. In this matter it so happens that 
I can speak from personal knowledge. I believe I can bring for- 




DISCUSSION ^THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 178 

may here say, that in this part of the country we have usually 
had several students each year qualifying at the local College for 
sitting the examinations for direct entry into the engineer branch 
of the Navy, but for some years back the numbers have been 
dwindling, and during the present year there are none at all. So 
much for the assertion that they get applicants up to their stand- 
ard. But there is another point here calling for explanation. 
The standard itself has been admittedly lowered of recent years. 
Why has it been lowered ? I don't suppose it was lowered in 
the interests of the candidates. The whole tendency of modern 
education is to raise standards in all professions. It has recently 
been distinctly raised in medicine, and in the Universities and 
Colleges with which I am acquainted it is almost continually 
being raised for Degrees or Certificates in the engineering facul- 
ties. In the case of the Admiralty it could only have been lowered 
because of the difficulty experienced in filling vacancies in the 
ranks of the engineers. Why does not the Admiralty franklj- and 
openly admit this, instead of attempting to obscure the issue by 
asserting that they get the numbers they ask for, and that they 
get them up to their standard ? Reverting to the questions which 
may be considered as involving, more or less, matters of opinion — 
viz., Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 — it is obvious that if the department is 
undermanned it cannot possibly adequately perform its functions, 
to that Xos. 1 and 3 may fitly be considered together. The Admir- 
alty — through the First Lord — does not admit undermanning. 
Outside expert opinion in the engineering profession of the 
country holds that there is undermanning in the engineer branch. 
Which is the better judge in this matter ? Had the present Board 
of Admiralty been thoroughly up-to-date, and thoroughly repre- 
sentative of the Navy of the present day, there would have been 
very good reasons for allowing that the Admiralty was the better 
judge. But, even on the First Lord's own shewing, the Board of 
Admiralty does not pretend to be in the least of a representative 
character. It is utterly destitute of that element which is the 
pre-eminent chai'acteristic of a modern Xavy — the mechanical 
element. Whereas the engineering mind of the country is un- 
doubtedly an excellent authority on this subject, seeing that it 
includes the very men who not only design and build almost the 
whole of the propelling and other machinery of His Majesty's 
ships, but who also run that machinery under most exacting ron- 

VOL. XVUX.— IMS. 13 



174 DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OE H.M. NAVY. 

dhions of trial. In this connection one wondei's if the members 
of the Admiraltj- Board ever get the opiniona of their own engin- 
eer officers afloat? If they did get those opinions they would 
hear some very definite views not at all agreeing with any of those 
enunciated by the First Lord. With regard to Lord Selbonie's 
denial of any lack of discipline in the engine-i-oom and stokehold, 
of course, as Mr. Morison points out in the paper before us, the 
discipline referred to was obviously not mere blind unreasoning 
obedience to orders. It is that higher kind of discipline which 
may be expected to result from organized training under a supreme 
dii-ecfiug mind, and under which bodies of men instinctively 
continue to discharge their accustomed duties efficiently in times 
of great excitement and probably of great danger. Such dis- 
cipline as this one would suppose would be most essential beneath 
the protective deck during the excitement and stress of operations 
in naval warfare. And here the Admiralty do not seem to realise 
the facts of human, nature. Every manager of men, eveiy foreman 
or superintendent, knows that unless he has the power of reward- 
ing or punishing those under him — in industrial works by increase 
or diminution of pay, or by discharging or promoting men, and 
so on — he cannot hope to have that kind of control over them which 
is vital to successful work. This is an elementary principle which 
the merest tyro very quickly appreciates when he first obtains the 
management of men. The British naval engineer has not got thia 
power over his men, and until it is given him in some adequate 
shape or form, he will never have such an influence over those 
under his orders, as to secure from them the highest and best 
work in emergencies, not to mention ordinary conditions. The 
case brought forward by Admiral Melville is in this connection 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 175 

machinery, i.e., less weight of machinery, thus making it possible 
for her to either steam faster or to carry more armour or armament. 
It is of course a truism that the power- value of a ship depends not 
upon her rated power but upon the actual power her staff manage 
to develop in her. But it is a truism which in this connection 
would seem to be worth more attention than it usually gets. For, 
the ship with the powerful machinery and the defective staff is 
worse off than the ship with machinery of less power but which 
is worked up to its utmost by a competent staff. We now come 
to the last expression of opinion on the part of the First Lord — 
that relating to the constitution of the Admiralty Board itself. 
The description of the Board given by the First Lord is so interest- 
ing that I will quote his own words : — " The Board has not been 
and never will be a collection of the Heads of Departments, but 
consists of the Lord High Admiral, or a number of gentlemen 
selected by the Crown. The Lord High Admiral you might com- 
pare to the Secretary of State for War and the Commander-in- 
Chief rolled iuto one ; those are his functions and what the Board 
€)f Admiralty has always been. When it has not been the Lord 
Bigh Admiral, it has been a number of gentlemen selected by the 
Crown who hold that particular office under commission. It is 
open to the Crown to change members of the Board, and to elect 
*xembers on the Board. The Comptroller for instance, has been 
^U and off, and when he is on he may be oft' again. A civil engin- 
eer has been placed on the Board at one time, but he is not there 
>w. I merely point to that to show you that it is a misrepresen- 
:ion to state or to assume that the Board of x\dmiralty is a collec- 
tion of Heads of Departments. It is no more that than the Secre- 
>xj of State for War and the Commander-in-Chief themselves rep- 
sent the Heads of Departments. . . . Of course, it may be a 
^tter of opinion as to whether or not there should be a collection 
Heads of Departments, but that is another point with which, 
*^Ciwever, I do not agree. The point I want to put for\^'ard is that 
^^> have a collection of Heads of Departments would be to have a 
Complete reversal of the whole of the history of the Admiralty 
^Xxd of its origin.*' Passing without further comment the extra- 
^Winary description here given of the various possible, and seem- 
^^gly hap-hazard fonns which the Board may assume, and which 
description is reminiscent of Gilbert and Sullivan and H.M.S. 
I^inafore, one naturally asks whence comes the authority for any 



1(6 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

one individual to lay down Ui© dictum m to what "never will 
be?" Further on the War Office is referred to as an analogy. 
Surely this is a most unfortunate comparison at the present junc- 
ture. Must the country wait for a naval Boer war to reveal the 
shortcomings of the Board of Admiralty ? 

We are told the Board is not a collection of Heads of Depart- 
ments. It is certainly not a collection of the Heads of all Depart- 
ments, but according to its composition at the present moment, it 
is to all intents and purposes, a collection of the Heads of one 
Department, which department goes by the title of the Executive 
Department of the Navy. Its present-day constitution is virtually 
a survival of the days of the wooden walls, when there was ont 
department, and one only, in the Fleet. Now there are several 
departments, and which is the most indispensable it would be 
impossible to say. All are essential, and if experts in one branch 
are to have a voice in the supreme management and control, then 
experts in other important branches ought, in the interests of 
efficiency, also to have a voice commensurate with their import- 
ance. I am strongly inclined to believe that until the present 
constitution of the Admiralty Board is altered, the evils com- 
plained of in the fleet will never be thoroughly eradicated. The 
source of the disease is the Admiralty Board, and unless the source 
is attacked, the cure can only at best, be temporary. It is not 
reasonable to expect that a body of experts in one branch can do 
full justice to other branches, with the abstruse technicalities of 
which they cannot be expected to be acquainted, and with which, 
as experts, they are out of sympathy. To attempt to manage a 
highly specialized and technical organization like the Royal Na\-y, 
including as it does within itself representatives of several differ- 




. DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 177 

would stand an equal chance of receiving that consideration and 
position to which its importance would entitle it. Under a Board 
as at present constituted, it is hopeless to expect such impartiality 
and justice. The more one ponders this subject, and the closer 
one examines it, the more firmly does one become convinced that 
the Admiralty has, so far, failed to fully realize the essential 
character of the machines they administer. A modem warship 
is a floating box of machinery. It is the greatest and most awe- 
inspiring aggregation of power in one unit, yet devised by man. 
On its operation on the day of stress may depend the security and 
even the very existence of the Empire. Naval tactics are neces- 
sarily of the utmost importance — they are indeed of primary im- 
portance — but futile indeed will be the most brilliant tactics, if 
the floating mechanism fail in the hour of trial. To minimise the 
risk of such failure, it surely behoves the Admiralty to adopt all 
possible precautions. They have at their service the highest 
marine engineering talent the country can produce, if they like 
to enlist it. They require this talent, and they require abundance 
of it, not only afloat, but at headquarters ashore. In concluding, 
I would venture to summarize by giving three reasons for reform 
in the directions indicated : — 

(1) The discontent which exists amongst the engineer 

officers of the fleet. 

(2) The practically unanimous opinion obtaining amongst 

the marine engineers of the country. 

(3) The chronic state of inefficiency of the machinery of a 

large proportion of His Majesty's ships. 

The first and second are facts which are ominous, and the 
existence of which ought surely to cause grave searchings of heart 
at the Admiralty. As regards the third, I contend the truth of it 
can be proved by evidence which will satisfy any impartial mind, 
and we suggest it is due largely and chiefly to undermanning and 
want of executive authority in the engineer branch, and to the 
inadequate, antiquated and abortive constitution of the Admiralty 
Board itself. 

Mr. D. A. Bremner said — In view of the lateness of the hour 
I will endeavour to be brief, and therefore, if I do not lay much 
Btress upon the privilege which I have in addressing this meeting. 



178 DISCUSSION — THE ENQINEEB BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. . 

nor refer in terms of praise to Mr. Morison's paper, I trust jou will 
accept my assurance that it is not due to any lack of appreciation 
but simply to a desiry to economise your time and patience. 

I take it tKat the object of contributors to the discussion should 
be to reveal new facets of the subject, or to shed new light upon 
facets wbich have been previously exposed, rather than to merely 
reiterate the author'^ statements. 

Mr. Morison's papers carry exceptional weight and convic- 
tion, by virtue of the fact that tbey are not a mere string of critical 
generalisations and pious opinions, but present a formidable array 
of definite statements of fact, and reasonable deductions there- 
from in support of his allegations, and embody specific recom- 
mendations constituting a complete scheme of reconstructive 
reform. 

Such an array of facts and specific recommendations should 
afford tempting tilting for the champions of an outraged 
Admiralty, The case for the engineers has been so completely 
disclosed and substantiated by a recital of material facta, and has 
been so fully endorsed by a large and representative body of 
expert engineering opinion, that it will scarcely suffice for the 
Admiralty to resort to the usual official tactics of mystical silence 
and aloofness. They must either refute the allied facts or else 
stand convictwi of a grave dereliction of duty. The existing con- 
dition of the engineer branch is not accidental and peculiar to 
His Majesty's Navy ; it is typical of the state of affairs wbich either 
has existed or now exists in the principal navies of the world, and 
is simply a stage in an evolutionaiy process. I do not think we 
need bother our minds very much about many of the minor dis- 
abilities and discomforts to which engineer officers are subjected ; 




DISCUSSION ^THE ENGIITEEB. BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 171 

The Admiralty, and the conservative section of the executive 
hranch, cannot prevent the ultimate completion of the evolu- 
tionary process, but they may retard it, and by so doing, postpone 
the realisation of maximum efficiency. 

The nation, however, cannot afford the risk and waste of time 
and money attending such retarded progress towards efficiency, 
and the internal artificial forces retarding* the natural course of 
evolution must be neutralised by equal and opposite external 
forces. I suggest that the creation and effective application ol 
such forces is the work which lies before the marine engineering 
Institutions in connection with this important question. 

It is, to say the least, disquieting to find that external pressure 
should be required to induce the Admiralty to act in accordance 
with the dictates of reason. 

Changes in organisation and method, to meet the require- 
ments of changed conditions, should emanate from within, and 
be inspired by an intelligent honest desire to attain the highest 
possible naval efficiency. 

The attitude of King Canute towards the rising tide was 
sane, as compared with the attitude of the Admiralty towards 
the growing importance of engineering in relation to sea power. 
King Canute's risk was limited and personal, whereas the risk 
undertaken by the Admiralty is unlimited and may involve the 
whole empire in irretrievable disaster. 

When subjecting the executive branch to criticism, it is only 
fair to admit that there are many executive officei-s, in the Navy 
to-day, who are sufficiently enlightened and liberal-minded to 
frankly recognise the true position, and support the suggested 
reforms in the engineer branch of the service. 

With a few notable exceptions, the progressive spirit is un- 
fortunately restricted to the younger executive officers, who are 
not in a position to influence the action of the Admiralty. Certain 
admirals after retiring from the Board have been seized with 
an attack of virtue, and have given unmistakable expression to 
the opinion that the demands of the engineer officers are per- 
fectly reasonable, but what we require is that the admirals who 
are in power on the Board at the present time should find salva- 
tion. Those are the men who alone can institute measures of 
reform. The explosions of virtue which sometimes take place 
when the restrictions of active service are removed, afford some 



180 DISCUSSION — THE ENGI\EEH BEANCH OF H.M. NAVY, 

indication of the Btrength of the written and unwritten laws which 
tend in the ±iavy, even in defiance of reason and experience, to 
always maintain the status quo. 

It is easy to advance theories, as to the or^^anisation and train- 
ing of personnel beat suited to fulfil the requirements of modern 
steam naviea. It must be remembered, however, that, with a 
huge navy already in existence, it is impossible to start de novo, 
and it may be quite impracticable to carry into execution, a 
scheme which may be indisputably correct from a theoretical 
standpoint. 

Any practical scheme for reform must, even in its earliest 
stages, preserve at least the existing d^ree of efficiency and pre- 
paredness for war. 

The transition from existing to higher eflSciency must be con- 
tinuous, even though slow. Any intermediate retrogressive stage 
is impermissible. 

The great merit of the scheme of reform submitted by Mr. 
Morison, and endorsed by the marine engineering institutions, 
lies in its moderation, and in the fact that it fulfils the practical 
requirements to which I have just referred. Whilst on this 
subject, I would state that, whatever may be the limitations 
imposed by practical considerations upon immediate reforms, I 
have no doubt that, at some future time, our naval personnel 
will be much more fluid and adaptable than at present. I do not 
believe it possible to perpetuate a system of oi^^nisation which 
might result in a ship having to strike her flag, owing to disable- 
ment of guns' crews, whilst one- half, or more, of her total comple- 
ment still remained injured and full of fight. To some ext«nt 
the principle of adaptability has been recognised in the military 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEEE BEANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 181 

engine-room. It would seem only reasonable, to so train tire men 
that surplus in any department would be available to fill up 
depleted ranks in any other department of the ship. 

When considering the question which is now under discussion, 
it is helpful to one's sense of proportion to remember that there 
are under one thousand engineer officers of all ranks in His 
Majesty's Xavy, and that their total annual cost is only about 
£282,000. The number of officers and the annual cost are, there- 
fore, so trifling, as compared with the vastness of our naval 
organisation as a whole, the £30,000,000 which we expend 
annually upon it, and the magnitude of the interests under its 
protection, that in view of the great influence exerted by engineer 
officers upon the fighting value of the fleet, it would appear to 
be absolute folly to neglect any effort to insure that their numbers 
shall be adequate and their quality the highest that the country 
can produce. 

It has been shown that the granting of executive rank to the 
engineer officers is the fundapiental necessity in any practical 
scheme of reform, and it is upon this point that the fiercest oppo- 
sition has been centred. 

I do not propose to take up your time by entering upon any 
lengthy arguments and explanations relating to this question, but 
it may be suggestive to draw your attention to the following^ 
relationships : — 

Rank, authority, discipline. 

Discipline, efficiency. 

Bank, honours, sentiment, esprit de corps. 

Sentiment, esprit de corps, fighting efficiency. 

Rank, honours, number and quality of candidates. 

Number and quality of candidates, efficient operation 
of selective process, high standard of officers 
entered. 

High standard of officers, efficiency. 
The disastrous effects of the short-sighted policy of the 
Admiralty in the past, upon the number and quality of candidates^ 
for appointments as engineer officers in His Majesty's Navy, are 
clearly revealed in the excellent diagrams which accompany Mr. 
Morison's paper. We could have no better illustration of the 
inevitable Nemesis which follows any violation of the laws of 
good sound common sense'. 



182 DISCUSSION— THE ENGINEEK BHANCH OP H.U. NAVY. 

Judging from the ambiguity of its wording, the new Admiralty 
Order would appear to have been issued in haste, and I venture 
the opinion that it will be repented at leisure, as, in direct viola- 
of all engiuearing experiences, it delegates engineering duties to 
executive officers, the senior of whom are too old to learn engineer- 
ing and the younger of whom cannot possibly become competent 
engineers in less than ten years. 

Responsible ministers and officials of our great departments 
of State seem to expect the blind confidence of the public, without 
making the efforts necessary to deserve it. 

The age of fetish worship haa passed however; we have 
J)ecome accustomed to the shattering of idols, and few of us have 
many remaining delusions as to the association of high ability 
with high position. AVe can only admit the association when 
convincing evidence of its existence has been forthcoming. Gal- 
lant admirals, who are at present blocking the roa<l to progress, 
would no doubt die patriotically enough for their country, but 
human nature is complex, and experience shows that so amiable 
a. virtue may be allied with other and less admirable qualities. 
We do not, however, wish aged and gallant admirals to die for 
their country. 

We wish them, in the interests of naval efficiency, t» pass into 
honourable retirement, and live in enjoyment of the honours and 
rewai'ds, which a rightly grateful country has bestowed upon them 
in recognition of valuable services rendered to the country when 
they were in tlieir prime, and were, by training and habit, more 
in harmony with the requirements of the age. 

Vi'p, dare not permit our supremacy as a sea power to be 
destroyed through deference to hoary traditions and personal 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 188 

to throw fresh light on a subject he has made so completely 
his own, or to add to the magnificent series of papers he has read 
to this Institution, will find his task difficult indeed, if not im- 
possible. It would certainly be impossible to state one's views 
with more force or clearness than. Mr. Morison has done, and one 
almost fears that in the attempt to say anythinor at all he will be 
guilty of mere iteration. We can all do one thing, however, and 
and that is to express our entire sympathy with the cause which 
Mr. Morison has so ably taken up, and to record in our minutes 
of proceedings our dissatisfaction and indignation at the deter- 
mined attitude of what we must call an effete Admiralty Board 
towards a staff which deserves the best encouragement and con- 
sideration they can have extended to them. I have not previously 
taken any part in the discussion on Mr. Morison's paper, not 
because I am not alive to the magnitude of the question that 
it involves, but because I felt I did not know the subject fully 
enough to be able to speak with any degree of confidence upon it. 
I also know there are members of the Institution more able than 
I am to take up the cudgels in support of the paper and wield 
them to better purpose. But believing as I do that the questions 
involved are of national importance, and that a mere passive 
acceptance of information put before us does not tend to the for- 
warding of the matter in hand, I have recently, on my own 
behalf, and for my own satisfaction, made some private investi- 
gations in the matter, and I can confidently say this: that the 
picture Mr. Morison has put before us of the state of affairs in 
His Majesty's Navy, especially of the branch of it concerning the 
engineers, is in every respect a 'periecily true pictui'e. He has 
given us a clear and true statement of the whole case, his communi- 
cations have formed neither more nor less than a statement of the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. He has said 
that the question is of national importance. I should say that 
it must become of the intensest interest to every member of the 
community. If the occasion should ever arise when the British 
Navy should be put to its ultimate use, Great Britain would 
depend, for her very existence, upon the strength and efficiency 
of the Navy, and her position as a first power amongst the nations 
of the world would depend, priinarily, upoa' what her Navy 
could do, and I believe there is no more potent factor making 
for the general peace of the world at the present time than the 



184 DISCfSSION — THE ENGINEES BRANCH OF H.M, NAVY. 

manifestly pre-eminent strength of the British Navy. If this i& 
8o, and if it be S fact, as is alleged by our moat severe critics — 
even those critics who are most maJignantly critical — that we 
possess the most magnificent materiel that the skill of any country 
can produce, is it not almost maddening to find that throughout 
the Xavy its personnel is not composed of members that the 
highest breeding and training can produce ? And why ? Simply 
because we have a Board of Administration that will continue 
an attitude of laissez fnire and will not recognize that things as 
they are are not coincident with thin^ ae they ought to be. It 
is a fact that the administration of the Admiralty is to-day not 
esseotialiy different from what it wa« half a century ago. 

Opinions in favour of the assimilation of the executive and 
engineering branches of the Navy are ^rowiny, and we have had 
examples of it in the Ignited States Govemment. I believe there 
they have carried the idea too far, and it has so far proved un- 
successful. AV'e have, however. Admiral De Beaumont, one of the 
most distinguished officers in the French service, advocating such 
a policy. He has not a high opinion of his engineer officers, 
because he is advising the so-called executive officers to learn 
engineering. I think these branches of service sufficiently differ- 
ent and distinct to allow of their being treated as distinct services. 
Jack -of -all -trades makes master of none, and I have no doubt 
this simple homily will apply in the ranks of the Admiralty, as 
truthfully as in the humbler walks of life, and those who would 
have executive officers learn engineering as well as navigation 
and tactics talk in ignorance of the requirements of the engine- 
room. AVe have recently had sufficient evidence of the capabil- 
ities of deck officers to look after severely technical details. It 




DISCUSSION THE ENGINEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 185 

being trained and fired, however, the executive officer is in 
absolute charge and the poor engineer ranks simply as a con- 
venient mechanic, and is treated as such. So much so is this 
the case, and so great is the risk of being snubbed for interfer- 
ing that in the present instance the engineer, although present 
at the time of the catastrophe, dared not offer his assistance. What 
he did do was to grasp at once the situation and acting promptly 
in his own particular sphere prevented the flooding from spread- 
ing to the other compartments of the vessel. 

The interchange of officers between the bridge and the start- 
ing platform would be disastrous to general efficiency, as has been 
proved in the American navy ; and the propK)sed transfer, in our 
Navy, of the supervision and repair of the machinery associated 
with guns, shot hoists, torpedo-firing machinery, air-compressors 
and such to gunnery lieutenants, will be disastrous both to the 
efficient upkeep of these details in themselves as well as to their 
ultimate use. No matter how attractive the idea is of engineers 
having the privilege of doing a little navigation and of bridge 
officers undertaking a little engine-driving neither can {yossibly 
be done well. 

I can only add my note of congratulation to Mr. Morison upon 
the magnificent series of papers he has put before this and other 
institutions, and express the hope that, in the near future, these 
wrongs that are being suffered by our brethren in the Navy may 
be righted. 

Mr. T. "Westgarth (Vice-President) said — I consider that the 
Admiralty have long ago given away their case and admitted ours, 
but unfortunately have not the courage of their convictions. I 
refer to the fact that they gave the engineer officers in the Navy 
relative rank, but have not been able to make up their minds to 
make that rank actual. The executive officers profess to believe 
that the engineers have no grievance and the matter is of no im- 
portance, but suppose it were suggested that the titles of executive 
officers, which are really military titles, were done away with, and 
captains called masters and commanders and lieutenants masters' 
mates, what objections would be at once raised. After much 
consideration it was found necessary and advisable to cany out 
the arrangement in the army which we wish for in the navj-, so 
that now in the army an officer has the same title and rank what- 



186 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEEB BBANCH OF H.M. NAVY, 

ever biaucL he belnn)^ to, even including the medical corps, and 
aa it happens the engineer bi-anch in the army is considered the 
senior, surely, therefore, reasoning by analogy, the engineers in 
the navy should have a position equal to any other branch of the 
service and should have the same titles. We alao claim that the 
engineer officers should have the same emoluments and recog- 
nitions as other branches of the service. During the present -war 
bushels of medals and no end of titles have been conferred, many 
of these upon naval officers who have taken part, but how many 
have been given to the engineer officers ? 

A Member — None at all. 

Mr. Westgaeth — Take a case in point, viz., H.M.S. " Ophir," 
referred to in the paper. The captain was promoted to com- 
modore and granted two honours, viz., C.B. and M.V.O. ; the 
commander wan pr-ojnoted to captain and made an equerry to the 
Prince of Wales, the first lieutenant was promot«<l to commander, 
two sub-lieutenants to be lieutenants, the surgeon to be staff- 
sui^^eon, and the assistant paymaster to be paymaster. The 
naval engineer on board was promised that some day he might 
receive an award, which by the time it came would probably be 
his due for length of aervice. However, there is one consolation 
that in t.hi' long run the public must and do get what they make 
up their minds to have. It is sometimes troublesome and iHfficuIt 
to cany a necessary reform, and pitiable that it should be so, 
therefore I say more honour to Mr. Morison for the fight which he 
is leading, but if we agitate and shew the Admiralty that we are 
determined to have a fair measure of reform undoubtedly wo shall 




DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 387 

branch say that this is a small matter but that is not so. What 
would a major of infantry say if he had to appear before an 
artillery captain to punish or reward his men ? and yet something* 
very like this takes place in the Xavy, where an eng-ineer oQicer 
may have to take a man on deck before an executive officer, junior 
to him in rank and possibly many years in age. I think we 
should protest against the insinuation thrown out by the First 
Lord of the Admiralty when he met our recent deputation and 
suggested by questions that the discipline and loyalty of the 
engineer officers might not be all that it should be ; was ever such 
a cruel thing* said ? The men who for twenty years have carried 
on the duties of our ships and year after year have had piled on 
their shoulders more complex and arduous duties and yet have 
loyally and properly carried on their work notwithstanding their 
unsatisfactory position certainly deserve great credit and must 
be most loyal officers. It is no wonder that candidates cannot 
be found who will enter the Navy as engineers under the present 
state of things; I am very freqiientlj^ consulted as to the career 
of young engineers, unfortunately it was impossible that I should 
recommend them to join the Navy. This ought not to be so, and 
if the conditions were reasonable, what a splendid opening there 
would be for great numbers of young* engineers in the country. 
It is often stated that the naval engineers' wishes are only a 
matter of sentiment; well, suppose it is sentiment, where is the 
relation in life where sentiment does not come in? What is it 
that holds men to their duty, and what will keep the engineers 
below in time of action, when possibly the engine and boiler- 
rooms may be like an infernal region ? Sentiment ! 

The President said : I am sorry the time for discussion is 
all gone, and there are only about two minutes left for me to point 
out a few facts. To put the result of this meeting into a concrete 
form it is proposed to send to the Admiralty a new Memorandum. 
The Memorandum which is printed in the Transactions, page 139, 
was presented to the Admiralty and a deputation waited upon 
them and spoke upon it. The present proposed Memorandum is 
only slightly altered from that, but it is improved, so we think, 
and this Memorandum will be placed before the next meeting of 
the Council. After the Memorandum is approved by the Council 
and has been sent to the various institutions it will come before 



hii DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.li. NA\T. 

the next general meeting of the InBtitution which will be held 
at West Hartlepool on Saturday, the 22ad February, at which 
meeting Mr. Morison hopes to be able to present his reply to the 
(UscjisBion. I hope then the Memorandum will be confirmed, and 
that at the same time we shall have the consent of the other institu- 
tions, so that it may be sent to the Admiralty without delay. I 
thinkitonly remains for me now to present the thanks of this meet- 
ing and of the Institution to Mr. Morison for his very able paper. I 
am quite sure that the feeling on the part of the members of the 
value of this paper is very sincere indeed. There is only one 
word I wouhl say on the discussion. I do not think it is quite 
right to take the remarks made by the First Lord to the deputa- 
tion as being a reply to the Memorandum. He told us in the 
first place that he did not intend to make a speech. These remarks 
were not a prepared reply to the Memorandum, and I say we have 
had no reply. We want a reply, and we expect some sort of reply, 
and, we hope, a satisfactory one to the revised Memorandum. 

The meeting then concluded. 



The following couiiiiunioations have been received by the 
Secretary : — 

February (ith, 1902. 
Dear Mr. DrcKiTT, 

liy the courtesy of the executive of your influential Institution, 
I have been invited to lay before your members the results of my 
oxperieures and observation (during the .'(7 years of active service. 



DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGIXEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 189 

This question is one deeply affecting the whole British Empire. 
It is not a question of what the engineers of the Navy want. It 
is not a question of professional etiquette, or of class legislation, 
but it resolves itself into the far more important one — " How does 
it affect our Xavy?'' My answer to that question is this, that 
** the efficiency of our Navy is so intimately entwined and bound 
up in the question we are considering, that the safety of this nation 
may be secured or forfeited by the action which the authorities 
may or may not take on your initiative." For years the Admiralty 
have been advised and entreated to deal with the engineering 
question in a broad, liberal and impartial spirit. To lift it above 
class prejudices and the traditions of a Navy dating back to the 
days of Nelson. The proof — if proof were wanting — that they 
cannot emancipate themselves from these traditions, from the 
cherished belief that the British Navy belongs by right to the 
successors of Nelson, and that no others may aspire to any military 
or naval command or control therein, is to be found in the latest 
order emanating from the Admiralty, directing three officers to 
form a committee to draw up a scheme, whereby torpedo and 
gunnery lieutenants may be put through a course of practical in- 
struction, which will fit them to take charge of all machinery 
outside the engine-room. We do not need to beat about the bush, 
in the endeavour to find a reason for such an extraordinary fiat, 
it lies upon the surface, where he who runs may read. It is this : 
the authorities can no longer shut their eyes to the fact, that the 
complements of engineer officers, artificers, and stokers allowed to 
our ships of war, are utterly inadequate to deal with the multi- 
farious duties which fall to their lot. They are continually being 
told that defects are increasing; that our ships cannot do what 
they ought to do as regards speed, because the engine-room staff 
is too small for the work it has to perform ; that our ships have to 
spend more time in harbour, and in dockyard hands, making good 
defects which would have no existence were the complements 
adequate to the work devolving upon them. You will say to me, 
" But why not increase the engineer staff?" Ah ! that is a ques- 
tion I put to myself many years ago, but the answer was long in 
coming. When it did come, it staggered me. The command or 
control of men means power and authority. Fifty years ago the 
engine-room staff of a big battleship was probably not more than 
from three to seven per cent, of the ship's company : to-day, if our 

TOL. xviii.-igoa. H 



190 DISCUSSION — THE BNGDIEEK BHANCH OP H.M. NAVY. 

engine-rooms were adequately manned, the proportion would pro- 
bably be nearer fifty per cent. Now if the chief engineer of a big 
ship had as many men under his control as the executive officer, 
don't you see that by every sense of right and justice the engineer 
should stand at least on an equality with the executive officer. 
But the control of an equal number of men is not the sole claim 
of the engineer to equality with the executive officer, for the 
engineer can appeal to the greatly enhanced importance of the 
duties and responsibilities resting upon hia shoulders, in com- 
parison with which those of the executive officer cannot be weighed 
or measured, so great is the disparity. Something had to be done. 
Either the engine-room staff had to be augmented and brought up 
to the point of efficiency, or the engineer must be relieved of some 
of his duties, etc. Which ia it to \>e? I almost fancy I can 
overhear the confidential chat between the First Lord and his 
Xaval colleagues. AVhat is to be done?" says Lord Selborne, 
" you acknowledge that the duties of the engineer department 
are beyond the powei-s of the existing staff to cope with. Can 
we not increase their numbers ? I confess that seems to me to 
be the simplest way out of the difficulty." That is what we should 
all probably suggest as a practical, commonsense way of getting 
over the difficulty, because, mind yon, there is no question of the 
engineer's ability to cariy out all his exceedingly important duties, 
if only a sufficient, and thoroughly efficient staff were allotted to 
his department. In the whole course of my service I never beard 
that question raised. It has always hinged upon the difficulty 
of finding accommodation for the added numbers. Well, this 
new order shows that the commonsense solution was not approved. 
It was much too plain and straightforward a way out of the diffi- 




DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 19 

ery outside the engine-room. Most of, if not all, those torpedo 
lieutenants are now serving in the higher ranks of captain or 
c^miral, and some of them are to be found in offices in the Admir- 
Sklty itself. Is it any wonder then, that the policy of 1877 is being 
introduced? The first step in this direction was taken about a 
year ago,^ when it was decided to enter one hundred electrical 
litters. These men were to be placed under the orders of the tor- 
I>edo lieutenants, not under the chief engineer, and their qualifica- 
't^ions were to embrace a practical knowlelge of machineiy gener- 
ally. Where was the necessity for such knowledge at that time, 
seeing that all steam-engines, hydraulic machineiy, and dynamos 
^were then under the charge of the chief engineer ? In the light 
odf the new Admiralty order that henceforth all machinery outside 
"tlie engine-room is lo be in charge of the torpedo lieutenant, the 
i*€»quirement of such qualifications on the part of the new electrical 
€i,Ttificer rating is easy to be understood. But what a revelation 
is this of the solicitude of the Admiralty authorities, that the 
X>€rsonnel of the Navy shall be the very best that can be provided. 
CI>ur cousins across the Atlantic have had a similar difficulty to 
sxirmount. We do not find that they have shirked it or gone 
^•ound the corner to find a way out. No ! they have grasped the 
Xiettle danger, and have solved the problem in a rational and 
strraightforward manner. They saw that the demands of their 
XI aval engineers were just and reasonable, and like sensible busi- ^ 
^i ess men they granted them fully and generously. As there 
Oould be no peace as long as the two branches of the sei^vice were 
^"t: riving — the one to maintain its supremacy, the other to obtain 
J vistice — the American legislature cut the Gordian knot, by amal- 
^^^mation. Henceforth, sailor and engineer are equals. 

I do indeed rejoice that a large and influential Institution of 
i British engineers and shipbuilders has taken up this important 
«itional question, and is dealing with it on the broad and un- 
ssailable basis of what is best for the country. That is Un- 
doubtedly the line which all speakers and writers must take when 
^-pproaching any service question. It is the only one which will 
^'Xiable them to hold the balance evenly. 

Before concluding, it will perhaps not be out of place if 1 state 
briefly what in my opinion are the pressing needs of the engineer- 
ing branch of the Navy, to place it in a condition of thorough 
efficiency. There are three points which stand out prominently 



192 Discnssiow — the engixeee branch of h.m. navt. 

before me like headlaad li^kte. First, training ; second, a suffi- 
cient and an efficient staff, and third, an adequate measure of 
naval authority for the engineer officer. 

With regard to the first, it is no exaggeration to say that as 
far as practical eificient training is concerned it is non-existent. 
It is true that a training of a kind — I hardly know whether to 
treat it seriously or not, because when one discusses it with an 
Institution of Engineers one is expected to treat of things at any 
rate from a sober and practical point of view, and for some time 
I wa« of opinion that some wag had been getting at the Admiralty 
over this matter. Well, a training has been recently inaugurated 
at one or two of our principal ports for stoker recruits, consisting 
of what may very well be termed " shovel, stones and sand drill." 
The drill consists of filling the furnace of a boiler with atones 
evenly and equally distributed. The drill is, I believe, carried 
on by means of numbers, something like this : at the order " one, " 
the recruit stoops down and grasps the shovel firmly with both 
hands ; at the order " two " he plunges it into the heap of stones 
and sand which lie at his feet on the stokehole plates ; at the order 
" three " he pitches the stones and sand into the open furnace 
mouth, and no on and so on. I confess that on first hearing of it, 
I felt half inclined to laugh, but then the pitifulness of the miser- 
able subterfuge struck me with all its paralysing force, and I 
realised that it was too serious a matter for mirth. Just try and 
picture the scene, and ask yourselves the question, "AVhat can 
the raw recruit learn from such a travesty of training, which will 
fit him to face the roaring fiery furnace of actual service?" In 
seeking for the genesis of this order I was informed that the 
proposal emanated from a naval engineer, and considerable mirth 




DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 193 

pounds in the training of our blue-jackets, in a trade or profession 
which is as dead and buried as the dodo, it has never been con- 
sidered necessary to provide any systematic training for the men 
who have taken their place in the propelling and manoeuvring of 
our warships. 

With regard to my second point, " A sufficient and an efficient 
staff ; '' I think the question has been so thoroughly thrashed out 
in Mr. Morison's paper that all I need say is that the lowest reliable 
estimate puts the required increase of numbers at thirty-three per 
cent, of the existing staff. If we should unfortunately find our- 
selves involved in a naval war I should expect to find that these 
numbers had to be still further augmented. 

With regard to the third and last point, *' An adequate measure 
of naval authority for the engineer officer ; " I have for nearly 
thirty years advocated amalgamation of the two great branches 
of the service, and in that matter I was heartily supported by our 
lamented late Engineer-in-Chief, Mr. Richard Sennett, a name 
which must be very familiar to many members of your Institu- 
tion, as it is generally throughout the engineering profession. 
I observe, however, that as a preliminary step you advocate an 
independent military corps of engineers. If the absolute effici- 
ency of the engineering department of the British Navy can be 
secured by the adoption of the proposal contained in your 
Memorandum, I shall be quite content to relinquish the point, so 
long as the end desired is attained. 

I thank you for the opportunity of expressing my views on this 
momentous subject, to so influential a body of professional 
engineers and shipbuilders. 

Yours faithfully, 

Charles M. Johnson, R.N., 

Chief Inspector of Machinery (retired). 

February 6th, 1902. 
Deak Mr. Duckitt, 

Mr. Morison's paper is a valuable contribution to the literature 

of this much-needed reform ; it is a clear statement of the case, 

strengthened by new evidence and bearing the clean-cut stamp 

of an engineer. As long ago as 1875 the necessity for this reform 

was precisely indicated by Admiral Cooper Key, in 1877 it was 

again advocated by Lord Goschen, and in the same year by Sir 



194 DISCUSSION THE ENGIKEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

Edward Reed. Since that time reformers have been many, the 
case has been brought repeatedly to public notice, but because it 
has lacked one piece of evidence it has always failed to impress 
itself upon the man in the street. I mean that it has lacked the 
grim evidence that would be immediately forthcoming in the 
event of naval war, and for this reason it has found no adequate 
response among the people, and no proper consideration at the 
hands of the Government. It has been shelved, like the old 
melodramas of Nelson's time, some day to be re-enacted with 
terrible force and circumstance. Admirals, statesmen, and the 
press have urged for these concessions in vain; diplomacy and 
eloquence are no match for tradition. But now that the lever 
has been applied by civil engineers, something must shift, and 
progress must be made ; for the public will realise that the pre- 
sent system stands condemned by the men best able to judge of 
its defects. If the great body of qualified civil engineers makes 
the statement that the present system spells ruin to the fleet, we 
may hope for some result. I understand that it is Mr. Morison's 
desire to obtain an expression of opinion from civil engineers 
generally — never was technical opinion called for to better purpose. 

The case as presented by Mr. Morison is carefully drawn up 
and leaves little room for criticism. He speaks of ** departmental 
jealousy," meaning of course to call attention to the treatment 
that the " non-combatant " " civil " branch receives at the hands 
of a wholly military Board of Admiralty. It may be well to point 
out that as ship-mates this jealousy is practically never allowed 
to shew itself between officers of those two branches : there is no 
more striking evidence than this of the perfect amalgamation 
that would take place if parity of rank were granted. 

Mr. Morison tells us that according to Admiralty regulations, 
a lieutenant can qualify himself as a torpedo lieutenant, so far as 
electrical knowledge is concerned, by going through the electrical 
course of eight working months at Greenwich, during which 
seven hours weekly are devoted to this subject ; finishing up with 
a preliminary course of three months in H.M.S. " A'ernon '' and 
a further practical course of six months in that ship. This is in 
all seventeen months, a very short term in which to acquire a 
sound knowledge of electrical engineering. But assuming that 
this is sufficient, the riddle arises : If it takes seventeen months 
for a lieutenant to learn electrical engineering, how long will he 



DISCUSSION — TK£ ENGINEER BJIANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 195 

require for hydraulics, aud for mechanical engineering? The 
answer is : ¥ive years. This answer will be agreed to by every 
<|ualified civil engineer, and it is of special importance to note 
it at a time when the Board of Admiralty ai'e proposing to hand 
over to such lieutenants the hydraulic and other gear on deck 
and elsewhere. 

Mr. Morison does not seem to advocate the American system, 
whereby executive and engineer officers are combined in men of 
a single type. I am of opinion that a better plan would be to 
adopt a system of common entry for deck and engineer officers, 
and for the first two years to submit them all to the same course 
•of training at a Royal Naval University, afterwards by selective 
methods allowing them to specialise in the various branches of 
engineering and deck duties. The naval officer of the future 
must be a specialist at his own particular job — that first, and 
afterwards, a handy man all round. 

Yours faithfully, 

RoLLO Appleyard, 

A.M. Inst. C.E. 

February Utfi, 1902. 
Dear Mr. Uuckitt,^ 

Owing to pressure of business at the time of the recent meet- 
ing in Newcastle, I am complying with the Chairman's request 
that those who were unable to speak should send written com- 
munications on the subject. 

The paper which Mr. Morison has read is one of vital import- 
ance to the well-being of the Navy, and everyone must admire 
the perseverance and pluck with which he has tackled his subject 
with a view to the reorganization of the engineering branch. 

It appears that the engineering branch represents about 27 
per cent, of the total naval strength in personnel, and in spite of 
this the officers remain with no positive rank attached to them, 
nor have they direct control over their men ; such a state of things 
might possibly continue in a time of peace, but surely the strain 
of war would inevitably expose such a weak spot in the organiza- 
tion. 

The title and rank of the naval engineer is practically un- 
known to the man in the street. 

The question -of rank is a very impoi-tant one and operates to 
a very much greater extent than would appear on the sui-face, i)i 



106 mSCCSSION— THE ENGIXEER BBASCK OF H.M. NAVY, 

tlie way of observing discipline and maintaining control amongst 
large bodies of men. The engineering force in some of our 
largest cruisers numbers at least 300 men, and in our battleships 
it numbers 180 to 200. The engineer officer has to maintain 
discipline amongst his numerous staff under conditions which are 
unknown on the upper deck, and which are not always appreciated 
by the deck oHicers, and certainly are entirely unknown to the 
general public. One manner in which the want of rank ajid 
direct control by the engineer officer over his men operates against 
discipline is clear from the fact that the men themselves see that 
their officers are not considered worthy of being entrusted with a 
proper dignified position, nor yet of toeing grant«d means to either 
reward or punish their own men for departmental matters; this 
be>Iittling of the officer in the eyes of his men cannot tend either 
to respect on their part towards their officer, or towards the main- 
tenance of proper ordei and discipline amongst the men. 

The term of " relative " rank is unknown in the Army, and 
there does not appear to be the necessity for it in the Navy; real 
rank seems to be just as much a necessity for a naval engineer as 
for any officer in the military service of the country; he has con- 
trol over large bodies of men, who at any time may he brought 
into active service. 

One thing Ihal has struck me on page 97 of the paper Ib 
the wide gap in age which appears to exist between the fleet 
engineer and his next assistant; it is quit« possible that in re- 
spect of age the assistant may hardly have been born at the time 
the fleet engineer entered the Navy, and faking as an example 
H.M.S. " Hannibal " and " Repulse," in the case of the fleet 
engineer being incapacitated during action the whole of the 




DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGIKEEB BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 197 

tricians, as they are called, who are being entered to look after 
uhe whole of the electrical equipment on board ships. Having 
been all my life connected with electrical machinery of different 
sorts I certainly think that in the case of warships, which have 
to keep themselves efficient for a great part of their time on their 
own resources absolutely, it is of the very highest importance that 
the electricians should be men of unquestioned skill and experi- 
ence; the state of things as depicted in Mr. Morison's paper in 
this respect is most unsatisfactory. 

It would appear at present that the Admiralty aie experiencing 
the greatest difficulty in getting men of any qualifications whatso- 
ever to join this new electrical branch. Electricity is daily be- 
coming a greater factor in the war efficiency of our Navy, and 
surely it would be wiser to continue to entrust the electrical 
machinery to the people who have hitherto kept it efficient than 
to risk any inefficiency by placing it in the charge of what appears 
to be a new rank, possessing, according to the Admiralty's own 
advertisements, very little, if any, electrical knowledge whatso- 
ever. In the Admiralty's advertisements it states candidates 
must be good workmen at the lathe, surely the mechanics of the 
engineering branch possess these qualities to a much higher degree 
than those they propose to enter. It is alleged by the Admiralty 
that the reason of the changing of these duties to a new class is 
that they are short of engineers. The aversion to enter H.M. 
Service as engineering officers must naturally be a veiy pronounced 
one, especially as regards electrical matters, when so very much 
better forms of employment and chances of success and promotion 
are to be found in other branches of the electrical engineering 
profession at home. 

Speed is as great a factor in naval efficiency as is the armament 
of the ship, and it seems to me, therefore, that in reality the engin- 
eer is as important a factor as the naval executive officer, and 
requires military rank to duly control the actions of his men. 

As a member of this Institution, I must also add my protest 
to the veiy unsatisfactory reply which was made to the engineer- 
ing and parliamentary deputation of July last, and that a change 
in this deplorable condition of affairs will have to come appears 
to be certain, if we are to maintain our first line of defence in the 
highest state of efficiency. 

Yours faithfully, 

D. Selby Bigge. 



]9S mscrssiox— THE exginekk bbanch of h.m. jjaw. 



Leeds Forge, Leedm, 

February ISth, 1902. 

DeaH Mr. DlTKlTT, 

As I was unable to be present at the reading of Mr. Moi'ison'»- 
paper at Xeweastle on the 7th inst., I beg to forward the follow- 
ing remarks upon the Hubject under discussion — with reference 
to the mueh-needed re -organisation of the engineer branch of 
H.M. Xavy: - 

I would begin my remarks with the statement that I consider 
it absolutely necessary that some such change as that advocated 
in the paper must be made, and that very soon, if the British Sa\-y 
is to become thoroughly efficient, and ready for immediate war 
service if required. 

The weakness of the organisation of the Navy appears to be 
due to the attempts made from time to time to bring it up to date. 
As our Xavy increased, and as sails gave place entirely to steam 
the inetftciencies of the old type became more and more apparent ; 
but instead of a entirely new system being introduced which 
would take account of the advance of modern naval engineering, 
the old system haa been patched here and doctored there, till 
neither the engineer officer, the artificer, nor the executive oifioer is 
satisfied. The executive officer feels the day fast approaching when 
he will no longer be as supreme as in the paat: the engineer 
officer feels he is absolutely essential, but is treated as if he 
were an interloper ; and the artificer, knowing the principal work 
devolves on him, wonders why he is treated like a mechanical 
doomiat. This perhaps is excusable owing to the rapid growth 
and development of engineering science, as applied to war navies. 
In every important na%-y of the world it has lately been made 




DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 199 

"would, however, venture the opinion that the highest efficiency 

in any branch of a war navy can best be secured by specialisa- 

"Cion. It seems to me that it will be an extremely difficult matter 

^o make all naval officers equally expert, in the highest degree 

"tx) which expert knowledge can be brought, in all branches of 

^ naval officer's duties ; besides it should not be lost sight of, if this 

<»ould be done, that their value as measured by the salary they 

<?ould command on shore would be much more than their present 

jjosition at sea. And for this reason, although I feel sure that the 

^Vmerican system of amalgamation will produce better results 

in the Navy than the arrangement which it has supplanted, 

H think that much more efficiency will be .secured by the 

liormation of a mechanical or engineering corps, on the lines 

suggested by Mr. Morison ; but to make such a corps thoroughly 

^f^fficient and capable of offering attractions to the youthful 

engineering talent which this country possesses in an almost 

"^anlimited .quantity, a re-organisation of the naval engineer branch 

is absolutely necessary. 

The day has now arrived to effect a radical and satisfactory 

^^hange in this branch of the service, and the naval engineers 

"Should be given identity of rank, identity of representation 

'^pon the Admiralty Board, identity of authority over and control 

'^Df the men of their department, and identity of consideration in 

"t^he rewards and privileges of the naval service that are bestowed 

'^apon the present military branch of the Navy. I have referred 

^o the changes which have taken place in the navy of the Ignited 

States. The navy has, rightly or wrongly, made the change which 

'^he wisdom of the American Congress deemed necessary. In 

-^Dther navies, such as the French, or the Russian, the same spirit 

^if discontent and inefficiency exists amongst the officers and men 

'^^f their engineer branches, and the discontent seems to me to be 

^)ne of the features of the natural evolution which all navies are 

^mdergoing. 

So much for general remarks. Mr. Morison has cited some 
Aery startling examples of the youth and inexperience of the 
engineer officers of some of our newest and largest battleships. 
This juniority on the part of the great bulk of officers below the 
chief engineers of our warships is a direct result of the under- 
manning and starvation of the naval steam department. No 
Atlantic liner or large mercantile marine steamer dare put to 



sou DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BBANCH OF H.U. NATY. 

sea under the conditions wliicli are shown to exist in our battle- 
ships and cruisers ; and yet it may happen, on the declaration of 
war, that these very vessels would be called upon to do quite as 
hard steaming as the Atlantic liners now do with unfailing 
regularity. It would be absolutely suicidal for any of our large 
steamship companies to send their vessels to sea with such a lai^ 
proportion of their engine-room complements as inetzperienced 
and youthful as are the engineer complements of many of our 
finest newly -com missioned men-o'-war, and certainly this unsatis- 
factory condition of affairs gives much force to the assertion that 
these things could not happen if the engineers' branch of the 
Navy had adeouate and authoritative representation upon the 
Admiralty Board. 

As things go nowadays, and as they have gone for many a 
long day, the engine department of the Navy has the least cmi- 
sideration given to it of any department. It has to take, as far 
as materiel is concerned, in weight or space, practically just what 
the other departments of the naval service do not require : and 
as far as personnel is concerned the same unsatisfactory state of 
affairs obtains. 5!niall wonder is it, therefore, that trouble always 
occurs aboai'd our new vessels of war. I have just been reading 
the explanatory statement of Lord Selborne on the navy estimates 
foi- this year. I find that, although no lees than forty-nine 
vessels of war of various sizes, from battleships and cruisers to 
submarines, have been added to the Navy during the past year ; 
that, although there are to be no less than sixty vessels of war 
under construction on the 1st of next April, and that during the 
next financial year it is proposed to commence the constructiou 
of twenty-seven additional vessels of various types, all that it is 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGIXEEB BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 201 

It must be remembered too that these men will require a 
certain amount of training before they can become of much use, 
and that it takes just as long, if not longer, to train an artificer 
or a stoker to become efiicient as it does to build a vessel. 

Mr. Morison's x^tper touches upon so many points in this 
detail of organisation of the engineer branch that I hesitate to 
comment upon them all, but I certainly think he has proved all 
his conclusions up to the hilt in the admirable paper he has 
recently contributed to this important subject. I am forcibly 
struck with the diagrams he has prepared, showing the gradual 
declination of entries into the engineers' branch. This fact alone 
proves much more conclusively than any other that the adminis- 
tration and conditions of this department of the Navy is eminently 
unsatisfactory. The entries of engineers who have been trained 
in the technical college and in the private engineering establish- 
m.ents of the country appear to have stopped altogether. And 
further, the competition for engineer studentships at Keyham, 
where youths are entered at the ages of 14 to 16 years, has 
decreased to an alarming extent of late years. 

There is no getting away from this pitiless array of cold facts, 
and that this should happen with the engineers' branch, when 
competition for other departments of the public service is so 
very keen, and when parents are at their wit's end often to know 
what to do with their boys, certainly shows the esteem, or rather 
the lack of it, in which naval engineering is held generally. 

It is surely time that a drastic reform should be made, and 
that naval engineering should be given the honourable position 
in H.M. Navy which its value and importance entitle it to. 

Yours faithfully, 

Ernest Gearing. 



PBOGBEPINOS. 20S 



NORTH-EAST COAST IXSTITUTIOX OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



FOURTH GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
LECTURE THEATRE OF THE TECHNICAL COLLEGE, HART 
ROAD, WEST HARTLEPOOL, ON SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 22nd, 
1902. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J. P., in the Chair. 



The Secretary read the minutes of the Third General Meet- 
ing of the Session held in the Lecture Theatre of the Literary and 
Philosophical Society, Xewcastle-upon-Tyne, on January 24th, 
1902, and also of the Special Meeting of the Institution held in 
the Lecture Theatre of the Literary and Philosophical Society, 
Xewcastle-upon-Tyne, on February 7th, which were approved by 
the members present and signed by the President. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the President 
appointed Mr. T. R. Fothergill and Mr. Tom Westgarth to examine 
the voting papers, and the following gentlemen were elected : - - 

MEMBERS. 

Edwards, Robert William, R.N., Naval Engineer, 4, Livingstone Road, 

Soathsea, Hants. 
Robson, John Hayes, S. Draughtsman, 32, Pollard Street, South Shields. 
Wynd, William Adam, Naval Architect, 8, Dilston Terrace, Oosforth, 

Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

GRADUATE TO MEMBER. 
Olsen, Hans B., Jun., Engineer, .Victoria Road, West Hartlepool. 



FB0CKBDIN68. 

GRADUATES. 
Nichol, Robert, Apprentice Engineer, 9, Abbej Street, Oateehead-on-Tyne. 
Sanson, Robert D., E. Draughtsman, 20, Oranville Street, Oateahead- 

on-Tyne. 
Schaeffer, Paal P., Engineering Student, Portland Villa, Forest EalL 
WiUon, William, Apprentice Engineer, 117, Beds Bum Roa'l, Jarrow- 

on-Tyne. 



NOTES FROM THE COUNCIL. 
The Phesident — There are cei-tain notes from the last Council 
Meeting that I have to put before you. 



Mr. Robert Thompson, Paat-PrcBident, having been elected a 
member of Lloyds' General Committee, has resigned his seat aa 
one of the representatives of the North-East Coast District in 
Lloyds' Technical Siab-Committee and the Council has elected Mr, 
W, H. Dugdale, Vice-President, to fill his place. 



A letter was received from Mrs. Marshall, wife of Mr. F. C, 
Marshall, one of our Past Presidents, saying that owing to ill- 
health Mr. Marshall waa compelled to resign his membership. 
The Council thought, considering the great services Mr. Marshall 
has rendered to the Institution, that it would be very fitting to 
appoint him a Life Member, and that has accordingly been done. 



The Institution of Mechanical Engineers having decided to 




PROOBBDINGB. 205 

Awards to Graduateis: — The following awards have been 
given in the Graduate Section for papers read during ihe last 
Session : — The sum of £3 to Mr. George Nelson for his paper on 
" The Design of Large Thrust Blocks ; " the sum of £2 10s. to Mr. 
R. Robson for his paper on the ** Wiring of Ships for Electrical 
Installation ; " the sum of £2 to Mr. H. B. Donaldson for his paper 
on " The Construction of a Modern Merchant Steamship." 



The discussion on Mr. E. C. Chaston's paper on " The Ballast- 
ing of Modem Tramp Steamers " was resumed and adjourned. 

The discussion on Mr. F. J. Warburton's paper on *' Some 
Notes on Steam Turbines " was opened and adjourned. 

Mr. D. B. MoRisox replied to the discussion in his paper on 
^* The Present Unsatisfactory Condition of the Engineering 
Branch of H.M. Navy." 

Mr. M. C. James read a paper on " Passenger Accommoda- 
tion in Steamships." 



TOL. XYIII.— I90f. 



15 



DIBOUBBION— THE BALLASTING OF TBAJlP STEAMERS. 207 



ADJOURNED DISCUSSION ON MR. E. C. CHASTON'S 
PAPER ON " THE BALLASTING OF MODERN TRAMP 
STEAMERS.'' 

Mr. J. R. FoTHERGiLL (Vice-President) said — I regret that 
Mr. McGlashan is not with us to-night, because he had intended 
to speak on this paper. We all remember the paper he read with 
so much interest, and being so conversant with the whole subject 
it would have been interesting to hear his remarks. I agree very 
fully with Mr. Chaston's paper, and I think it may be said to be a 
most interesting and a most important one. The question of 
ballasting steamers when light, and insuring their having a 
reasonable and safe draught, is an underwriters' question, and 
one that can be readily dealt with by them on the lines mentioned 
a few days ago at a meeting of underwriters in Liverpool. If 
anything has to be done in the nature of assigning a light line 
freeboard then the Board of Trade and Lloyds would undoubtedly 
have to act; but this necessity would be entirely due, as in the 
ease of the load line, to the absolute indifference of owners to 
act themselves, and owners would certainly find it more to their 
interest to do something to meet the requirements than allow 
the whole question to drift into the hands of the Board of Trade 
and Lloyds. Mr. Chaston has shewn many serious results to 
steamers in ballast due to the small percentage of ballast carried ; 
and those who are at all conversant with steamers cannot help 
but fully realize the serious nature and the possibilities of acci- 
dent, due to want of deeper draft in light ships. The greatest 
risk is not so much in crossing the Atlantic, because as a rule 
additional ballast, generally sand, gravel, etc., is taken on board. 
They leave with a considerable quantity of bunkers, which in 
itself has its effect in ballasting the ship, although as the passage 
proceeds you bum up your bunkers. But probably the danger 
is greatest when coming from the continent say to Cardiff. You 
come down Channel with a fair wind and you no sooner turn 
the Land's End than you get a head wind with probably a nasty 
chop of Bin Atlantic sea, and drawing so little water the position 



f — TEB BALIuLSTIBO OF TBAHF STEAHEBB. 

becomes dangerous and Hie machinery suffers materially. No 
doubt the majority of those who are acquainted or associated with 
steamers have comprehended that position, but it ia imperative 
tiiat the shipowner should realise — not only the danger to ship 
and machinery — but that it pays him to ballast his ship even for 
a short voyage. When recently down at Cardiff and Barry dur- 
ing my visit a number of steamers coining from continental ports 
took in some cases 14 or 15 days to make the passage. The 
loss of that time is a very serious matter indeed to the shipowner. 
If shipowners took the question up from no other consideration 
than that of economy, so far as the trading of the ship is con- 
cerned, it would pay them to provide for suitable ballasting. 
The question of the best nature and application of ballast it is not 
my intention to touch upon, but it is most desirable to emphasize, 
and strongly emphasize, the interest that owners themselves would 
gain by ballasting their ships when light. I fully endorse the 
value of this paper. 

The subject was adjourned until next general meeting for 
Mr. Chaston's reply on the whole discussion. 




DISCir8SI0N--S0>!E NOTES ON STEAM TUEBINES. 209 



ADJOURNED DISCUSSION ON MR. F. J. WARBURTON'S 
PAPER ON '' SOME NOTES ON STEAM TURBINES." 

Tke Pb^sijdent invited further discussion on Mr. F. J. War- 
burton's paper on ** Some Notes on Steam Turbines." 

Professor R. L. Weighton (Vice-President) said — I have just 

bad an oppKjrtunity of having a conversation with the writer of 

this paj>er, and I have had the questions I intended to ask 

answered. But in order to give Mr. Warburton an opportunity 

of satisfying the possible curiosity of other members I may say 

the particular question I wished to ask was as to the efficiency of 

this turbine going astern. Of course it is well known that 

l^arsons' turbine is irreversible, and it is a very important matter 

to get a turbine to reverse at all. This one is reversible, and in 

SL paragraph on page 7() it is said that the go-ahead set of 

^ixozzles plays on the most efficient side of the wheel vanes. The 

cjuestion I asked had regard to the efficiency of going astern. It 

i« obvious to anyone that when the turbine is going astern the 

^team jets are playing on the reverse sides of the blades, which 

^ides have a curvature which seems to me to be less adapted for 

iticiency than even radial vanes would be. 

Mr. P. Mayson Bexnett said — On congratulating Mr. 

"arburton on his paper one cannot but feel the magnanimity 

ith which he has put before the Institution the details of his 

vention and experiments. Unlike some inventors Mr. Warbur- 

^Dn evidently does not believe in the, to my mind, fatal policy 

z± ** hiding one's light under a bushel," but exposes it to the full 

^ast of the engineering profession. If it is strong enough it will 

ot be put out. In speaking of the shapes of orifices Mr. Warbur- 

^^n does not say to what extent the velocity of flow is affected by 

iie length and shape of the nozzles, which he says are calculated. 

^oes this shape approach the hyperbolic curve, and is the 

rmula for velocity of the form- - 






210 DISCD8SI0H— 60MK N0TX8 ON BTEAH TUBBDUS. 

where v = velocity iu feet per second ; j»o *i*i P — pressure inside 

and outside orifice ; c = — ; where w^ = weight of a cubic foot 

Pa 
inside; y = ratio of specific heat at constant volume and 
pressure? The angle of nozzle to vane, i.e. 20°, agrees, I believe, 
to some extent with that taken in the Parsons' steam turbine, in 
wliich the " angle of approach " is somewhere aboiut 20° and 
the " Lngle of exhaust " is about 90°. The theory that the speed 
of vanes, being half that of initial steam, will leave exhaust steam 
relatively motionless is very nice, but how does ihis come out in 
practice? I would su^j^^st that there is a certain amount of 
"slip," greater at full load, which must leave the steam with 
some velocity, and this must produce frictional and eddy current 
losses in the exhaust chambers of each element. Mr. Parsons' 
steam turbine takes advantage, not only of the impulse or 
momentum of the steam as in De Laval, but also of the expansion 
which takes place throughout the whole length of cylinder as 
though it were a huge nozzle, whereas this expansion is entirely 
lost iu the impact turbine as described by the author. 

Mr. Warburton gives 12J pounds per B.H.P. expected with 
the impact turbine of the Bateau patent; what consumption 
does he get with his turbine? 

I believe Mr. Parsons' turbines give a consumption of; — 
18 to 25 lbs. per K.W. hour, or 
l;i-5 to 18-7 lbs. per E.H.P. hour, or 
12-8 to 18 2 lbs per B.H.P. hour, or 
10-8 to 15-2 lbs. per I.H.P. hour, 
allowing an efficiency of : — 

75 per cent. K.W. to E.H.P. 




DISCUSSION — SOME N0TB8 ON STEAM TURBINES. 211 

not put enonnous strain on the working parts? What leakage 
occurs past isolation rings, which Mr. Warburton states do not 
rotate, but float on a thin layer of steam ? If they have weight, 
is it not against the theoretical laws of a fluid that it should sup- 
port the weight of these rings, i\e.y the weight of ring is supported 
by upper layer of steam, which is consequently at a greater 
pressure than the fluid in the lower portion ? Centrifugal action 
may produce this floating, and from the specimen which Mr. 
Warburton submitted to view at the last meeting it would seem 
that no frictional wear had taken place. From the sectional 
drawings of the engine one cannot judge very well as to its 
mechanical construction, and I shall be glad when I am able to 
see one of these compact and interesting steam turbines at work. 

The discussion was adjourned till the next meeting. 



The following communications have beien received by the 
Secretaiy : — 

Rutherford College, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 

January 28th, 1902. 
Dear Mr. Duckitt, 

I have read with much interest Mr. Warburton's paper on 
steam turbines, but am sorry to see that he has given no experi- 
mental results on those he describes. In the design of water 
turbines, much use is made of a quantity called the hydraulic 
efficiency, which is the ratio of the work done by the water on the 
wheel, per pound of water, to the total fall of water in feet; a 
similar quantity which would be of great service in the design of 
steam turbines would be the ratio of the work done per pound of 
steam on the wheels to that which would be obtained from the 
steam in an ideal engine working in Rankine's cycle. From 
experiments published on Mr. Parsons' turbines I have obtainexl 
three values of this quantity. The Eberfeld trials give it as 708, 
and those by Mr. W. Hunter, engineer to the Newcastle and 
District Electric Lighting Company, made in January, 1897, give 
•676, and -59 for non-condensing engines, the latter supplied with 
Buper-hieated steam. In making these calculations, I have allowed 
mechanical efficiencies of 95 for the dynamo and 85 for the 



212 DISCUSSION — BOMB NOTES ON STEAM TDEBINBa. 

turbine, as the consumptioos of steam are g-iven per electrical 
horsepower. It would be of great interest if Mr. Warburton 
could give some of the results of experiments made by himBelf 
on steam consumption from which this quantity could be 
calculated. 

Yours faithfully, 

C. H. Innes. 

Baden, 
Switzerland, 

February nth, 1902. 
De.\r Me. DrcKiTT, 

I have carefully read tJie interesting paper recently delivered 
by Mr. Warburton before the Institution, aad regret I will be 
unable to be present at the discuasion. 

As there aie one or two points in the paper on which I should 
like to make a few remarks, I should be obliged at your placing 
this lett*;r before the Institution at your next meeting. 

AVith reference to the Rateau turbine, which has been so 
extensively advertised of late upon the continent and in Eifgland 
also, excellent steam consumptions, surpassing in some cases 
those actually obtainwl by Parsons' and by the best reciprocating 
engine -builders, are being claimed. As the progress of this 
engine is naturally being watched with keen interest both at 
home and abroad it is indeed disappointing that no : ctual results 
of tests should appear. The machine of 1,200 H.P. mentioned 
in the paper as being actually completed and run, together with 
the fact that it has led to the construction of another 50 per 
cent, larger, seems, however, to show that this engine has now 
resolved itself, to quote the author's language, into a market- 




DISCUSSION — SOME NOTES ON STEAM TUBBINES. 2 1 & 

My principal reason for dwelling on this point is that during 
my viait to Paris, at the time of the exhibition, I found it 
absolutely impossible to obtain any satisfactory information 
regarding Bateau turbines actually at work. It may be 
mentioned that a stall was set apart for the exhibition of this 
machine, but only individual parts were to be seen. 

It also strikes me as being curious that, in spite of the favour- 
able criticisms that appear from time to time in the continental 
press, no one has ever been able to tell me where a turbine of this 
type is at work. 

Perhaps Mr. Warburton or some other gentleman would give 
us some definite information, thereby removing the doubts that 
have so long existed in continental engineering circles that the 
Rateau turbine has not yet passed the laboratory stage. 

Concerning the other turbines mentioned in the paper, it is 
to be regretted that the author did not give us any data as to the 
results of these new engines and I hope that before long he will 
give us some actual figures, which are of the greatest interest 
after hearing the description of any new machine. 

There is one other point on which I should like some informa- 
tion. In the advance copy of the paper a turbine is described 
as stopping from and reversing to 4,000 revolutions per minute 
in the wonderfully short space of time of five seconds. Consider- 
ing that the kinetic energy or flywheel effect of a mass of 1 pound 
at a radius of 1 foot rotating at the above-named speed is some- 
thing like 2,750 foot-pounds, it would be interesting to know 
what was the size of the engine in question, whether it was any 
the worse after this severe strain, and whether such a reversal 
is possible under ordinary working conditions. 

Hoping I have not encroached too much upon your valuable 
time, and thanking the author for his interesting paper, 

Yours faithfully, 

W. J. A. LoxDox. 



DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGIXEEB BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 216 



MB. D. B. MORISON'S REPLY TO THE DISCUSSION ON 
HIS PAPER ON THE " PRESENT UNSATISFACTORY 
CONDITION OF THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. 
NAVY." 

Mr. D. B. MoRisoN (Vice-President) said — The most gratify- 
ing feature in connection with the paper I have had the honour 
of submitting to this Institution is, that it has resulted in 
expressions of opinion from several gentlemen well known in the 
engineering world, who are undeniablj' qualified to form reliable 
conclusions on the great national problem of naval engineers and 
naval efficiency. 

The importance of the subject is ably set forth by Mr. C. M. 
Johnson, R.N., Chief Inspector of Machinery (retired), who says, 
" The efficiency of the Navy is so intimately entwined and bound 
up in the engineering branch, that the safety of the nation may be 
secured or forfeited by the action which the authorities may take, 
or may not take, on the initiative of the North-East Coast Engin- 
eering Institution." 

For years the Admiralty has been advised and entreated to 
deal with the engineering question in a broad, liberal and im- 
partial spirit, but in the words of Mr. Dugdale " they have by 
arrogant and egotistical opposition succeeded in making one of 
our most honourable and important professions, the most un- 
popular in the entire Navy.*' Reference to the diagrams included 
in my paper testify to the truth of these severe criticisms, and it 
is evident that the authorities must either refute the alleged facts, 
or stand convicted of a grave dereliction of duty. 

Two years ago this subject was discussed in plain and unmis- 
takable language by the marine engineering institutions, but 
the fact that practically nothing has been done is a clear indica- 
tion of the bitterly hostile attitude of the all-powerful opponents 
of engineering reform. There is no attempt to disguise the 
hostility, it is traditional and intense, and will remain so as long 
as the constitution of the Board of Admiralty is wholly executive. 

Opposition to naval developments, on the part of admirals 
who serve on the Board, has always been a factor to be reckoned 



216 DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGIKEEB BKANCH OF H.M. NAV^-, 



with. They opposed steam, opposed armour, optposed breech- 
loading BJid quick-firing gnus, opposed the increase of the fleet, 
opposed the removal of masts and yards, but they undoubtedly 
did so from an honest coavictioa that they were acting in the best 
interests of the country, and the explajiation is, that they were 
then, as they are now, completely out of touch with engineering 
progress. 

Sir John Colomb, M.P., at the interview with Lord Selborne, 
said, " We have arrived at the present stage of dissatisfaction and 
difficulty through a long series of administrative compromiseti 
between the force of sentiment and tradition on the one hand, and 
the force of facts produced by the progress of mechanical science 
on the other." 

This may explain the attitude of Lord Selboine towards the 
parliamentaiy and engineering deputation. On that deputation 
were a large number of influential members of the House of 
Commons, and also the representatives of the engineering institu- 
tions. 

The gentlemen who addressed Lord Selbome undoubtedly 
expressed the views of the marine engineering profession, 
and yet a perusal of his lordship's reply clearly shows how hope- 
lessly out of sympathy are the members of the board of Admiralty 
with the engineering profession generally. Lord Selborne 's 
opinions on this highly technical question are naturally inspired 
by his executive colleagues. It is from them he derives his know- 
ledge of the internal economy of the naval service, and to him 
they impart those prejudiced views, on this very question, which 
are so effectually blocking reforms, and which have established a 
position wholly urlififial and highly dangeroi 




DISCUSSION ^THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 217 

ality and justice. The more one ponders this subject, and 
the closer one examines it, the more firmly does one become con- 
irinced that the Admiralty has, so far, failed to fully realise the 
essential character of the machines they administer. 

" A modern warship is a floating box of machinery. It is the 
greatest, and most awe-inspiring aggregation of power in one 
unit yet devised by man. On its operation on the day of stress 
may depend the security and even the very existence of the 
Empire. Naval tactics are necessarily of the utmost importance 
— ^they are of primary importance — but futile indeed will be the 
most brilliant tactics, if the floating mechanisms fail in the hour 
of trial. To minimise the risk of such failure, it surely behoves 
the Admiralty to adopt all possible precautions. They have at 
their seivice the highest marine engineering talent the country 
can produce, if they like to enlist it. They require this talent, 
and they require abundance of it, not only afloat, but at head- 
quarters ashore." ^ 

In dealing with the subject of administration in this yearns 
report on the Navy Estimates, Lord Selborne says: — '* Most 
important of all, the development of the i>eace administration 
must be on such lines as make for efficient war administration. 
The Board are keenly alive to the importance of this aspect of the 
question." 

The great reform which is absolutely necessary for the 
efficiency of the Navy is, that engineer officers should be placed 
in military control over their men. After a life's experience in 
the Navy, Mr. Bedbrook, R.N., Chief Inspector of Machinery 
(retired), said, at the Newcastle meeting: — ** The position of the 
engineer officer should be such as to demand implicit obedience 
from all naval ratings, and this is only possible by his being given 
a military command. It should further be borne in mind that 
engineer officei*s have a large number of petty officers and men 
serving under their orders, and that they with their men 
are called upon to submit to risks greater than many others of 
their shipmates, in view of the probability of the boilers, engines 
and steam pipes being damaged by shot or shell or torpedo ; and 
the possibilities of the vessel being rammed. I may remark, for 
instance, in the case of the * Victoria,' not in war time, only one 
engineer officer was saved, whereas only one lieutenant was 
drowned; and we know with regard to the unfortunate men a 



218 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BaANCH OF H.H. NAVY. 

large proportion of the engineeriog department perished in that 
ill-fated ship. It is consequently necessary that the engineer 
ofBcers should exhibit to their men an example of courage and 
coolness for the preservation of discipline and the ensuring of 
[ffompt attention and obedience to orders, but it becomes difGcuIt 
to exhibit these necessary qualities if the spirit of these officers is 
crushed by the continual repression and n on- recognition by 
those in authority." 

Mr. Rollo Appleyard says: — "As long ago as 1875 the 
necessity for this reform was precisely indicated by Admiral 
Cooper Key. In 1877 it was again advocated by Lord Goschen, 
and in the same year by Sir Edward Reed. Since that time 
reformers have been many, the case has been brought repeatedly 
to public notice, but because it has lacked the grim evidence that 
would be immediately forthcoming in the event of naval war, it 
has found no adequate response among the people, and no proper 
consideration at the hands of the Government. It has been 
shelved, like the old melodramas of Nelson's time, some day to 
be re-enacted with terrible force and circumstance. Admirals, 
statesmen, and the press, have ui^ed for these concessions in 
vain ; diplomacy and eloquence are no match for tradition." 

With reference to these exceptional admirals, Mr. Bremner 
says:- — "Certain admirals after retiring from the Board have 
been seized with an attack of virtue, and have given unmistak- 
able expression to their opinion that what the engineers are ask- 
ing for is perfectly reasonable, but what we want is that the 
admirals who are in power on the Board at the present time, shall 
find salvation. Those are the men, and these explosions of virtue 
which take place when the restrictions of active service are 
indication of the sttengUi »f Ihe written 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 219 

The decision of the Admiralty to appoint warrant officers in 
full charge of machinery should undoubtedly be considered in 
conjunction with Admiral Melville's experience and recommenda- 
tion. I do not infer that artificer engineers are not capable 
warrant officers but I strongly contend that their services would 
be of maximum value on ships carrying engineer officers, and 
especially is this the case in view of the lowering of the standard 
of experience of artificer engineers recently ordered by the 
Admiraltv. 

In the next paper on this subject which I hope to submit to 
the Institution, I propose to devote a section to the questions asked 
in the House of Commons on engineering matters, together with 
the replies given by the Admiralty. 

In conclusion, I would again thank the special committee and 
the many gentlemen who have given me their whole-hearted 
assistance during the preparation of my paper, and have recorded 
their opinions so forcibly in the discussion. We have undertaken 
this work from a national standpoint and the public expects us 
to do our duty by carrying it through. Mr. Appleyard says : — 
" Now that the lever has been applied by civil engineers, some- 
thing must shift, and progress must be made ; for the public will 
realise that the present system stands condemned by the men best 
able to judge of its defects. 

"If the great body of qualified civil engineers makes the 
statement that the present system spells ruin to the fleet, we may 
hope for some result." 

That the public has lost confidence in the Admiralty methods 
is clearly proved by my diagrams, but I strongly suspect that many 
parents will speculate on the ability of the engineering Institu- 
tions to solve this problem, and that we shall see an increase in 
the number of applications for Keyham college this year. If 
such is the case then we have still another reason for persistence. 
Our cause is a good one ; we are fighting for the efficiency of the 
British Navy. 

The President (Mr. Henry Withy) said — In reviewing the 
valuable paper of Mr. Morison, which was read before the North- 
East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, at the 
Literary and Philosophical Institution at Newcastle-on-Tyne, 
on the 7th inst., I am sure I can say that everyone must have been 



220 DISCUSSION — THE ENGIKEEE BRANCH OF H.M. NATT. 

very vividly impressed with tlie importance of the matter dealt 
with ia that paper, and ita bearing upon the efficiency of our Navy. 
I need scarcely remind this meeting that this last paper of Mr. 
Morison's forms a continuation of the paper on the " British Naval 
EuRineer," which was first of all read before the Institution at 
Xewcastle the year before last, and which was subsequently dis- 
cussed by the Institute of Marine Engineers at London and 
Cardiff. Mr. Morison also contributed another paper entitled 
" The Kngineering Crisis in the Navy," which was read and dis- 
cussed by the Institute of Engineers and Shipbuilders of Scot- 
land. As a result of the great interest — which was naturally 
taken in naval engineering matters by all these Institutions — 
and the importance of the serious defects known to exist in our 
naval engineer administration, a large and influential deputation 
of members of Parliament, and officials and representatives of 
the North-East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, 
and the London and Cardiff branches of the Institute of Marine 
Engineers, thought it their duty to place the unsatisfactory con- 
dition of the engineer department of H.M. Navy before the atten- 
tion of Lord Selhome and his colleagues at the Admiralty. I may 
mention in this connection that about 50 members of Parliament 
signified their appreciation of the magnitude of the national 
interests involved in the question, by assenting to form part of 
the above deputation and many of them attended personally at 
the Admiralty on that occasion. Although that took place as 
long ago as last July, no answer beyond the few remarks which 
were made to the deputation by Lord Selbome, has been 
vouchsafed by him, and the matter practically remains where it 
stood when Mr. Morison with the energy and determination which 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 221 

in marine engineering is due entirely to the genius, skill and 
determination of the mechanical engineers of the United King- 
dom. We, therefore, as engineers, feel it our plain and impera- 
tive duty to insist that the engineering branch of the Navy shall 
be made capable of bearing satisfactorily the first brunt of a 
naval war, and of efficiently continuing the naval service of the 
country. No one can know better than the members of this and 
kindred Institutions, that in these days of steam engineering the 
safety of our Empire may hang upon the initial efficiency of our 
naval engine-rooms on the outbreak of war. What we have to 
insist upon is the paramount value of complete efficiency in our 
warships, either with regard to their machinery or with regard 
to the organisation and administration of the officers and men 
who are entrusted with its care and maintenance. We believe 
that the highest engineering efficiency of a warship is to be 
secured by entrusting the machinery to the care of engineer 
officers who shall have, under the supreme authority on board 
the ship — the Captain — the military control and management 
of their own particular department. We have, therefore, in 
accordance with the resolution which was passed at the meeting 
held at Newcastle on the 7th inst. considered and adopted a 
Memorandum embodying the salient points of the matter dealt 
with in the paper of Mr. Morison, read on that date, and of the 
subsequent discussion. This Memorandum it is intended to 
forward to Lord Selbome, as embodying the views of the members 
of the North-East Coast Institution of Engineers and Ship- 
builders. 

Mr. Morison has shown in the most graphic and telling 
manner, by the diagrams which he published at the end of his 
paper, the rapid decline of candidates for engineer appointments. 
It is necessary for the efficiency of the Navy that this should be 
altered, but it never will be altered until the engineer branch is 
represented upon the Admiralty Council and until naval engineer- 
ing is given the status which its importance entitles it to. The 
work of the engineer is most arduous, exhausting and important. 
Because it is performed below decks, out of sight, it is often out 
of mind. 

Gentlemen, I cannot say how highly I appreciate the magni- 
ficent efforts which Mr. Morison has put forth in this matter, 
and I am sure that in the end he will carry his point, and that 

YOL."XVlII.-lW. 16 



222 DISCUSSION THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

he haa done so will be a matter of proud congratulation to the 
North-East Coast Institution in particular, and the engineerinf^ 
profession of the country generally. We thank Mr. Morison for 
his paper. 

The following Memorandum was put to the meeting and 
adopted. 

(I. I The engineer branch, in apite of the fact that it compriaea ne&rl; 
one-thinl of the total personnel of the Navy, and umaistB of 27,439 officers anil 
men, performin); duties upon which the mechanical efficiency of the Navy 
depends, ja totally unrepresented upon the Board of Admiralty. 

(2.) The preatnt civilinn status of the engineer branch deprives its officers 
of the necessary military control over their men, and ia not conducive to the 
attainment of that high standard of discipline in the engine rooms und stoke- 
holds whith will be of vital importance in time o£ war. 

(3.) The nnn -representation of the engineer branch upon courta martial, 
when officers or men of that branch are being tried for technical offences, is an 
anomaly and an injustice, which ia detrimental to the true intereats of the Navy. 
(4.) The existing numbers of engineer officera,artiticera, and stoker ratings 
fall so far short of the actnal requirements that it is impossible to provide ships 
with engine-room complements of the numbers, skill and experience necessary 
for the proper working and maintenance of the machinery. 

(5. ) Tlie results of the unsatisfactory conditions of tarviee in the engineer 
branch of H.M. Navy are, that an adequate supply of qualified candidates is not 
forthcoming and that a feeling of discouragement exists amongst the engineer 
oflicers, which is most detrimental to the efficient performance oF their duties. 
The extreme unpopularity of the engineer branch can be gauged by the fact 
that at the January examination for engineer ofRcera no caniiidates presentnl 
tliemselves, and in March there were two candidates, but only one was accepted. 
(8.) The discouraging stagnation in promotion to the rank of "chief 
engineer," whereby ofiicera are not advanced to that rank until they are 37 or 38 
years of age, should be remedleil, especially as the officers of the executive 
branch can obtain equivalent rank at ages varying from 27 to 32. Closely 
associated with Che stagnation of promotion to chief engineer rank, is the 
system of appointing officers of junior rank "in lieu of chief engineers," without 
according them the rank and pay of chief engineers. By the acceleration of 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 223 

the engineer officer should also be appended to all official documents relating to 
the engineer branch, thereby putting an end to the existing suppression of the 
signatures and individuality of the engineer officers. 

(11.) The proposed transference of the care and maintenance of hydraulic, 
electric and torpedo machinery to executive officers, on account of the shortage 
of engineer officers and men, is a step fraught with grave danger to the 
mechanical efficiency of the fleet. 

(12.) The obvious, and only eflFective remedy, would be to increase the 
engineer branch, and not to create a multiplicity of semi-mechanical depart- 
ments in our war vessels. 

(13.) The present conditions of service of the engine-room artificers are 
unsatisfactory with regard to accommodation and remuneration, and should be 
remedied. 

(14.) The absence of any satisfactory action by the Board of Admiralty in 
response to the representation of the Parliamentary and engineering deputation, 
which waited upon the First Lord in July, 1901, leaves the engineering institu- 
tions no alternative but to prosecute their efforts in the cause of reform until 
the existing evils and their attendant dangers to the Empire have been removed. 

The President — It now merely remaiiis for me to tender to 
Mr. Morison on your behalf our sincere thanks for the labour 
he has spent upon this paper. 

The resolution was carried by acclamation. 



COMMUNICATION FROM MR. MORISON REFERRING 
TO THE STATEMENTS ON THE SUBJECT OF NAVAL 
ENGINEERS MADE BY MR. ARNOLD FORSTER 
(SECRETARY TO THE ADMIRALTY) IN THE HOUSE 
OF COMMONS, DURING THE DEBATE ON THE NAVY 
ESTIMATES, FEBRUARY, 1902.* 

(1) " / believe tliat the difficulties that exist in this country 

are less both in qiuility and in degree than the 
difficulties which have arisen elsewhere^ and are per- 
plexing the authorities of other countriesy 

If this 18 in accordance with facts, then the difficulties of solu- 
tion are also less and should be grappled with before they attain 
a greater magnitude. 

(2) " We do not find complaints from officers commnn>Hng ships 

of the condition of then enqines'' 

This is a tribute to the loyalty and zeal with which the engineer 
officers and their men endeavour to carry out their duties under 
the existing trying conditions. They can but do their best and 
they do it. The labour involved in maintaining efficiency of 

• Mr. Arnold Forster's statements in italioi. 



224 DISCUSSION — ^THE ENGINEEH BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

machinerj- aeems to be ignored, but ita amount can be gauged by 
the coat of ropairB. The following extract from the speech of 
Mr. W. Allan, M.P.. in the House of Commons, on the Navj- 
Kstimatea, is, therefore, of striking interest: — "A sum of 
£2,195,52S, has gone in one year in repairs, or what is commonly 
known as reconstruction, whatever that meant." The immensity 
of thia sum affords an indication of the condition of the machinery 
in some of H.M. ships, and of the worries and anxieties of those 
responsible for the maintenance of ita efficiency. 

( 3 ) "We^io not find that when a strain is put upon the engineern 
they liavi- failfd to respond to it." 
That the engineer officers are not always able to respond even 
to the intermittent strains of peace times is beyond question. 
H.M. " Hermes " (see page 1^0) ia a case in point. The chief 
engineer broke down under the great physical strain, the engineer 
department utterly collapsed, with the deplorable result that this 
modern warship had to be towed into Bermuda. The health of 
the chief engineer was ruined and he has since been invalided 
from the service. 

In war time this disaster will be repeated again and again 
under existing conditions, and yet those in authority ignore the 
repeated warnings of the engineering profession, and misinterpret 
all endeavours to obtain greater efficiency. 

(+) " They did vol find that absence of authority liad ted to 

indiscipline in the engine-room^' 

The Timen and other reports of Mr. .\rnold Forster'a speech 

contained this statement, but he has omitted it in the Hansard 

version- The statement Ja a distinct admission that there ia an 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 226 

materiel, to a degree of danger, which (in their entire ignorance 
of engineering requirements) they cannot appreciate, but which 
is, nevertheless, of such a magnitude as to be incredible. Admirals 
who have studied this great question realise its grave importance. 
Admiral Sir J. 0. Hopkins, G.C.B., in a paper submitted to the 
United Service Institution, remarks : — 

And now let me touch on the vexed question of the position of the engineers, 
and suggest th»t the time has arrived to accord them executive rank. 

Their duties are purely executive and should be recognised as such, and 
the recognition cannot, in my opinion, claah in any single instance with the 
other executives, as their sphere of duty is so clearly deflned, and an engineer 
would as little expect to be put in charge of the navigating or officer of the 
watch's duty, as would these officers of being put in charge of the engines. 

Admiral Fitzgerald, in a contribution to the National Review, 
also makes the following significant statements : — 

Already the engineers are calling out for executive rank and executive 
titles. This is quite natural, as they see they do most of the work, and that 
the maintenance of our modern ships in a state of flghting efficiency is the 
business of mechanics and not of sailors. 

Why the Admiralty refuse to give engineer officers 
military rank with a limited military control over their 
men is beyond comprehension in view of the immense issues at 
stake. Every thinking man must admit that this reform will 
result in a higher standard of discipline, and in no part of a war- 
ship when in action is the highest obtainable standard of dis- 
cipline more essential than in the engine department. The hostile 
attitude of the Admiralty on this question is also responsible for 
the deplorable fact that engineers of education and experience 
positively refuse to join H.M. Navy as civilian officers. It is 
rumoured that the next irritating subterfuge devised at the 
Admiralty will be to alter the titles of engineer officers in service 
documents so that Mr. Smith, engineer, R.X., will become 
Engineer Smith, R.N. The value of the change is ;///, as it conveys 
nothing to the 2(),()()() men under their orders. One wonders if it 
ever occurs to those who scheme these petty invasions, that they 
are trifling with the efficiency of the Navy of the British Empire. 

(5) *' Three more of the highest posts apen to em/ineers are to he 
created — Chief Inspectors of machinery,'''' 

The following appears in Engineering, February 28th, 
page 288 : — 



226 DISCUSSION— THE ENGlNEEfi BBANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 

Mr. Arnold Forrter in his optning atatement on Friday last, devoted 
■everal minutea to tbe engineering branch, and took much credit to hiinaelf 
and hia colleaguee on the Board that " three more of the bigheet posto open 
to engineers will be created — chief inspectors of machinery." It is needloas 
to remark that the " concession " t« engineer ofHcers is abeolutel^r trivial. 
Out of the whole number of engineer officers now enrolled, each man has a 
three hundred and thirty-thiid part of a prospect of gaining a step in promo- 
tion towards the cr.d of hie career. This fraction of a chance is the average. 
Of course, the young men just entering the service have a far smaller share 
than the seniors, who are nearer the goal. There would naturally be the 
corresponding opportunities for promotion lower down were it not the 
Admiralty have an unpleoaant way of appointing junior engineer officers for 
responsible positiong without giving them promotion or advanced pay, on 
the plea that they are only acting " in Uen of " officers of the position 
which the duties demand. 

(6) " ThesB Oncers (the Chief Inspectors) will retire wttk the 
rank of Rear AdmiraV 
Engineer oflScera in H.M. Kavy throughout their career remain 
plain Mr. and are retired as civilians with no mark or outward 
sign whatever to denote that their Lives have been spent, as officers 
in a military service. Their so-called rank is a sham. Endless 
instances may be given to show the sharp line of demarcation 
between officers of relatively the same rank. If, for example, 
one of these chief inspectors of machinery served on a board of 
enquirj", of which a captain was also a member, and each went 
on board the ship on which the enquiry was held, the captain 
would be received by a guard of honour, as a mark of respect for 
the position he occupies, and the uniform he wears, but the chief 
inspector of machinery would go on board as a civilian and would 
receive no such recognition, although wearing a uniform identical 
with that of the captain with the exception that he would have no 
curl in the braiding of his coat sleeve. And yet Mr. Arnold 




DlSCtJSSlOK — TH£ ENGINEER BRANCH OE H.M. NAVY. 227 

active listj and in the engineering branch there is only one officer, 
the en^ineer-in-chief, who has a nominal rank equal to the most 
junior of them. There are also 204 captains in the executive 
branch, but in the engineer branch there are only 30 officers of 
an equal nominal rank including the ten now added. 

(8) " We have given a further allowance to the engineer officer of 

the flagship, even where there is an inspector of machinery 
on hoard,''' 

It is not a further allowance. If granted in full it will be but 
the restoration of a former allowance of which these officers — some 
8 in number — have been lately deprived. 

(9) " We have also increased the allowance to tfhe officer in cJiarge 

of torpedo boat destroyers from 2s, to 85." 

This extra allowance of one shilling per diem is given to the 
engineer officer in consideration of the extra clerical work in tak- 
ing charge of the stores, not only for his own department, but 
for those of the boatswain, carpenter, gunner, naval ordnance, 
torpedo and medical, in fact all the stores on the ship. This extra 
shilling is less than is paid to an executive officer of equal rank 
who takes charge of stores on warships of the larger classes, such 
allowance ranging from 48. to Is. 8d. per day. 

(10) " We have increased the number of artificer engineers from 

138 to 200." 

All engineers will agree that artificers should receive the same 
opportunities of advancement to warrant rank as men in the 
executive department, but it must not be lost sight of, however, 
that these 67 men cease to be workers when they become warrant 
officers, so that, unless their places are filled by men equally com- 
petent as workmen, the standard of the artificers will again be 
lowered, and we have Chief Inspector of Machinery Bedbrook as a 
reliable authority for the statement that the average artificei*s 
now being accepted for service in H.M. Navy are of a lower 
standard as skilled workmen than at any period during the last 
30 years. 

(11) " TTg have allowed engine-room ^artificers to obtain warrant 

rank at an earlier age than formerly,'^ 

This step will meet with general approval as there can be no 
doubi that the services of capable artificer engineers will be of 



228 rascifssros — ^tiie engineer branch op h.m. savt. 

great value on ships of large power carrying commissioneil 
engineer officers, and in which there must necessarily be con- 
tinuous overhauling and minor repairs in order to maintain a high 
standard of mechanical efficiency. The Admiralty are moat cer- 
tainly wrong if they assume that there is bo distinction between 
a highly scientific engineer officer and an artificer. Individuals 
of both claases may overlap, as an artificer of exceptional ability 
may lift himself up to the plane of an engineer, but the truth 
is undoubted that as a whole the two elasaes are absolutely dis- 
tinct. Kot only is it true that the naval engineer officers cannot 
be replaced by artificers, but it is equally true that the engineer 
officers cannot exactly fill the place of the artificers, who are, or 
should be, trained and skilled handicraftsmen. Both hold tlieir 
worthy and necessary place, with the engineer officer superior in 
all that breadth, resource and capacity which goes with higtier 
development. Admiral Melville after practical experience in the 
United States Navy severely condemns the practice of putting 
artificer engineers in full charge of machinery, yet the following 
ships in H.M. Navy are in entire charge of artificer engineers and 
carry no commissioned engineer officer, viz. ; — 



Table I.-The following Ships is H.M. Navit cabby no 

EN.IINKKR OFFICEHa AND THB MaCHWERY IS IN CkAKCB 

EM<!iM:r.RS (Wabbant Officbbs). 


COMUISI 

or Abi 


inCEB 


K.n«ol8Wp- 


T.n.r. ! Tmrf Boiler. 




Alert 

, Bramble 

1 Britamart 

■ Cockatrice 
1 Candurdost, 

Contest 

CurlBw 


1,400 1 Cyliiuliioal. 

1,300 1 Yarrow Water-lube, 

1,300 Yarrow Water-tube. 

1,000 1 Cylindriial. 

-.i.lOO Belleville Water-tube. 

4.400 1 "While Water-tube. 

I,2u0 1 Cyliniirioal. 








BiSCtTSSlON — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OP H.M. NAVY. 



229 



Table I. — Continued. 



Name of Ship. 


I. HP. 
1,000 


Type of Boiler. 


Lizard 


Cylindrical. 


Lynx 

Idagpie 
Melita 


4,4(iO 


Normand Water-tube. 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Mutine 


2,100 


Belleville. 


Opossum 


4,000 


YaiTow Water. tube. 


Partridge 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Penguin 


i,o:)0 


Cylindrical. i 


Porcupine 

Rambler 


3,900 


Reed Water-tube. ' 


975 


Cylindrical. | 


Ranger 


4,000 


Yarrow Water-tube. 


Rattler 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Redbreast 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Rinaldo 


2,100 


Belleville Water-tube. ' 


Rosario 


2,100 


Belleville Water-tul)e. ■ 


Seagull 


4,600 


Niclausse Water-tube. ' 


Seahorse 


1,650 


Cylindrical. ' 


Sharpshooter 


4,500 


Belleville Water-tul)e. 


Shearwater 


2,100 


Belleville Water-tul)e. 


Sheldrake 


4,500 


Babcock and Wilcox Water-tube. 


Snapper 

Spitfire 


3,600 


Yarrow Water-tube. 


4,50 » 


Yarrow Water-tube. 


Starfish 


4,000 


Blechynden Water-tube. 


Sturgeon . . 


4,00) 


Blechynden Water-tube. 


Teaz^r 


4,800 


White Water-tube. ! 


Thistle 


1,300 


Yarrow Water- tube. 


Thrush 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Tyne 

Vestal 


1,800 


Cylindrical. 


1,400 


Belleville Water- tube. 


Wizard 


4,800 


White Water-tube. 


Wye 

Zebra 


1,050 


Cylindrical. 


4,800 


White Water-tube. 


Zepliy 


3,850 


Reed Water-tube. 



(12) " Two claims have been put forward, and I think it is the 
duty of those who speak on behalf of the engineers to 
reconcile these views. There is a claim for more promotion 
and a claim for an increased finmber of enf/i/ieers, — 
7'here is no compatibiliti/ about those two propositionsy 

The two claims are perfectly compatible and will be readily 
umlerstood by those who are in any way familiar with the con- 
ditions. The increase which has taken place in the number of 
vessels of H.M. Navy necessitates a corresponding increase in the 
number of engineer officers. Instead of creating a sufficient 
number of chief engineers by promoting them at about 28 to 30 
years of age, as is the case with lieutenants and paymasters, the 
Admiralty promote them at about 38 but appoint them as officers 
** in lieu of chief " many years earlier without giving them the 
nominal rank or pay of the ]X)sition which the duti demand. 



230 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEEE BEANCH OF H.M. NAVV. 



Table II — Ships in H.M. Navy is which 

parailtl in any other Branch of (Ke Seriri' 



Enuinebb Officebb bxlow thb 

IN LlKl' I'V" Chikf Enoinkeks, 
Chief Ghoihebr^ 'J'liii ha^ no 





Nuui.. of Mhip. 


IHP 


Trtm 01 Boil««, 
Cylindrical. 






Alacrity 


3,000 








3,500 


Cylindrical. 

Thomyoroft Wat«r.tube. 
Cylindrical. 






Arfeu't^ '■'.. "■■ 


4,300 








3,000 






Bat 


6,900 


Reed Water-tube. 






Beagle 


2,000 


Cylindrical. 

Thomyoroft Water-tube. 
Cylindrical. 
Normand Water-tube. 






Bittern 


6,300 






Black Prince 


6,000 






Blanche 


3,000 






Boner 


4;300 


Thomycroft Water-tube. 






Broiaer 


4,300 


Thomycroft Water-tube. 






Ballfinch 


5,800 


Yarrow Water- tube. 






Buizard 


2,000 








Calliope 


^•T 








Calyp«. ... .... 

Cheerful 


4,000 
6,100 


Tliumytr..ft Water-tube. 






Conflict 


4,800 


White Wat«r-tube. 






Coquette 


5,700 


Tligrnycroft Water-tube. 
Ree.l Water-ta!>e. 






Crine 


5,900 






Desperate .. 


5,700 


Thoriivcroft Wftter-lul». 






DovV 


5,800 


Yarrow Watev-t»l.>e. 








5.800 Normand Waler-tobe. 






Fakon 


a.250 Normand Water-tuiw. 






6,260 1 Thomycroft Waler-lube. 






Fame 


6,200 1 Reed Water-tube. 






Fawn 






Fdud 


Sjm Thomynroft Water.tube. 






Hart 


4,000 


Thomycroft WotPr-tube, 






Hasty 


3,700 


Yarrow Water-tul.c. 








3,900 


Beed Water-tube. 








3,500 


Normanrl Water-tube. 






Keatrel ■■■ 


5,800 






Lee .. 


6,000 


Ydjtow Water.tubB. 






Uven 


6,300 


Thomycroft Watw-tube. 

Cyliniirical. 
Normand Wat«r-tube. 






Onyx 

Orwell 


3,500 

6,300 






(Jtter 


6.300 


I'honiycroft Water-tube. 






Becrnit 


B,8()0 


Normand Water-tu1>o. 






Renard 


3,500 


Cylindrical. 




^1 



DISCDSSION — THE ENGI?i'EEK BEAKCH OP H.K. NAVY. 



331 



It has been suggested that the Admiralty will now meet the 
recommendation of the Institutions that this grossly unjust 
system should be abolished, by simply omitting the words " in lieu 
of" and making these ships jippdiiiliiiciits for of&cere of rank 
junior to chief engineers. It may safely be assumed, however, 
that the Admiralty would not adopt such a course, especially as the 
title " in lieu of chief " implies increased responsibility. 

Taxis III. — Ships in H.M. Navy in which Enoikekr OrwictsBS bblow the rauk 
OF Chief EN(ii!<EE& ars in bol^e charoe of the Machinekv, but abb not 

STATED IN NaVT LIST TO BE " IN UED OF CuiEF ENQINBERS. " 



N>a..o(Sbti>. 


I.H.P. 


Tipeofltoilvt.- 


AUrm 


3,500 


Cylindrical. 

Thorny croft Water- tube. 

Cylindrical. 


AlbatroBB -. 


7,500 


Alberta 


1,500 


Algerine 


1,400 


Cylindrical. 


ADgUr .. 

Arib 


5,700 


Thomycroft Water-tube. 


S,600 


Normand Water-tube. 


Arid 


5,700 


Thorn voroft Water-tube, 


Avon 


6,000 


Thomycroft Water- tube. 


Bknihee 


4,400 


\oriiittnii Water- tube. 


Brazen 


5,800 


Kornmnd Water-tube. 


Charger 


3,100 


YimiwWater.tube. 


ChsmoiB 


6,200 


Hpyd Watar-tulie. 


Chwnpion 


3,000 


Cylindrical. 


Cleopatra 


3.000 


Cylindrical. 
Thomycroft Water tu1«. 


Cygnet 


5,700 


cJSthia ... 


5,700 


Thomycroft Water- tulw. 


Daaher 


3,800 


Vaiiiiw WfttLT-liibe. 


Dragon 


4,400 


^'nriMWlil WiltHlMubK. 


I>ry»d 


3,500 


Lin'i.molJve. 


Easiest 


6.300 


^uLuwidUhter-tube. 


Fairy 


6,300 


Thoruycroft Water-tube. 
Cylindrical. 


Foarles* 


3,200 


Flying Fish 


6.200 


Reed Water-tube. 


Gipey 


6,300 


Thomycroft Water -lube. 


(ilSier 


3,500 


Locom'itive. 


Goldfinch 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


GoiBamer 


3.500 


Reed Water-tube. 


GriJon 


6.000 


Yarrow Water-tube. 


6,300 


Normand Water-tube. 


Harrier 


3,500 




Hazard 


3,500 




Hearty 


3,160 


Cylindrical. 


Hnuar 


3,500 


Locomotive. 


Io*ro, 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


Jaaeur . 


3,500 




KangBToo - 


6,100 


Reed Water tube. 


Led/ 


3,500 


Locomotive. 


Leopard 


6,300 


Thomycroft Water-tnbe. 


Lively ... 


6,250 


Normand Wuter-tube. 


Mallard 


5,700 


Thomycroft V* ater-tube. 




6,100 


Thomycroft Water- tube. 


Myrmidon 


6.200 


Reed Water-tube. 


0«pr«y 


6,300 


Thomycroft Waler.tube. 1 



DISCUSSION — THE £NGIN££E BBANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 
Table llJ.—Conlinitai. 



N>Dii^ of Ship. 


I.HP. 


Type of Boilcm. 
Tbornycroft Water-tuU. 


Oatrioh 


(>,-2J0 


Panther 


6,300 


Normand Water- tube. 


Peacock 


1,E0U 


Cylindrical. 


Peterel 


6,200 


Phtenii 


1,400 


Cylindrical. 


Pigeon 


l,20() 


Cylindrical. 


Pigmy 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 


PlasBV 


3,500 


Locomotive. 


Plover 


1,200 


Cylindrical. 
Kormand Wster-tnbe. 


Quail 


8,3 


Kacehoree 


8,000 


Yarrow WaUr.tube. 


Racer 


850 


Cylindrical. 


Raven 


540 


Cylindrical. 


Rettpole 


1,200 


Cylindrical 


Reaeai'ch 


675 


Cylindrical. 
Yarrow Water.tube. 


R«ebu.=k 


6,000 


Skipjack 


6,300 


Reed Water-tube. 


Spanker . 


3,600 


Tu Temple Water- tube. 


Sparrow 


1,200 


(Aasiiatant Engineer in sole charge). 


Sprightly 


6,250 


Nonnand Water.tube (Laird). 


Success 


6,000 


Tbornycroft Water.tube. 


& ::: .:: 


4,100 


Nonnand Water.tube. 


6.300 


Yarrow Water- tube. 


Taku 


6,000 




Thorn 


6,400 




Thrasher 


e,:i00 


Normand Water.tube. 


Tiger 


8,400 


Normand Water.tube. 


Torch 


1.400 


Cylindrical, 


Victoria and Albert 


2.400 


Cylindrical. 
Normand Water -tube. 


Vigilant 


6,400 


Viten 


6,000 


'■ Eipreaa " Water-tnbe. 
Reed^Water-tube. 


Whiling 


5,900 





_ . _ 


_ _____ 



(13) '^ I futve not heard it stu/i/esled that engineers iltould wuln 
any ctroimsfances fake rommand of ships." 
It hits never yet been suggested either by the engineering 
institutions, or by the engineer oificers themselves, that the 




DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 233 

Then as regards power of punishment for delinquencies committed by 
stokers in the engine and boiler-rooms. Why should not chief engineers 
have the same power of minor punishment allowed them as a commander, 
second-in-command, a first lieutenant, or, to quote an analogous case, a 
captain of marines, for military offences, under the same restrictions as 
quarter-deck investigations, etc.? If this were permitted it would tend 
largfely to improve the chief engineer's position and strengthen his authority. 

It is just this strengthening of the authority of the engineer 
officers which is the keystone of the position, as it will undoubtedly 
result in gi'eater efficiency and be of inestimable value in actual 
warfare. 

(15) " My otvn view is that it is a lamentahle thing that the 

engineer officers should feel impelled to look outside the 
Navy for their future^ and the fulfilment of tJmr 
amhitiony 

The Engineering Institutions hold no brief on behalf of ihc 
engineer officers. If Mr. Arnold Forster intends to insinuate that 
the Institutions are investigating the subject of ** Naval engineers 
and naval efficiency," on behalf of the engineer officers, then his 
insinuation has no foundation in fact ; the basis is national, not 
individual. 

(16) " There is only one trades union that is good for the Navy, 

and tluit is the Navy itself ^ 

It is regrettable that the Secretary of the Admiralty should 
have confused scientific societies with trades unions. The pro- 
fessional engineers who are investigating this question have the 
efficiency of H.M. Navy at heart to an extent quite equal to Mr. 
Arnold Forster, and the Board of Admiralty, and they are unques- 
tionably their superiors in their knowledge of marine engineer- 
ing both as regards materiel and personnel. 

(17) " These men (engineer officers) sJwuld feel that they have a 

part in the traditions of the Navy,^^ 

This is impossible as long as the repression of their branch is 
persisted in. The methods of the Admiralty have brought 
engineering in the Navy into such disrepute that after 8 months' 
advertisement, no candidates for engineer officers presented them- 
selves at the January examination. To thus trifle with Imperial 
interests is nothing short of a national crime, and the first naval 
war that this country is engaged in will prove the truth of this 
strong assertion. 



-THE ENGINEEB BRAIfCH OF H.M. KAVY. 

(18) " / Ihink the Admiralty would be on right Unes in meowag- 

ing this feeling amongei engineer officers that they are a 
part of the Navy, and making them feel that there is a 
future for them there, and thai they need not look to any 
other Kource. For that reason I deprecate any suggestion 
that another corps should be formed ; it is unnecessary." 

It IB simply a calamity that the Admiralty persist in refusing 
to differentiate between engineer officers aa individuals and 
engineer officers as factors in naval efficiency. Rank, pay, promo- 
tion, etc., are simply means to an end, and that end is efficiency 
in the engineer branch of H.M. Navj-. It is the engineer branch 
which, in actual warfare, will have a determining influence oil 
naval success. Mr. Arnold Forster's argument is apparently based 
on the plane of the individual, but that of the Institutions ia based 
on the higher plane of naval efficiency, and, therefore, of the 
nation. 

(19) " 7%* case has recently been put before the public in a 

manner which I know has been present to the mind of 
many members, and though it may have been a vseful 
contribution to the solution of the controversy, it is not 
the most valuable contriliHlion that e-ould be marie. There 
are highly coloured statements and exaggerations in it." 
The following letter was addressed to Mr. J. A. Bedbrook, 

R.N., Chief Inspector of Machinery (Retired), and Mr. C. M. 

Johnson, E.N., Chief Inspector of Machinery (Retired) : — 

Habtlbpool Ehoink Workb, Hahtlepooi,, 

March 6th, 1902. 




DISCCSSION — THE ENGINEER BItAXCH OF H.M. NAVY. 285 

(Copy.) 

Habssfielo, Blbnkabne Road, S.W., 

6th March, 1902. 
D. B. Morison, Es^., 
Dear Sir, 

In reply to your letter of the 4th inst., re your paper, which was read 
before the North-East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders, I 
beg to say that I have carefully re-read the paper, and I find no exaggerations 
or inaccuracies in it; the paper consists largely of plain statements of facts, 
the comments made and opinions expressed being moderate in tone and fully 
borne out by the facts mentioned. There are certainly sufficient facts brought 
forward to make a highly coloured picture of the unsatisfactory state of the 
engineering branch of the navy, but the case is already so strong that there 
is no need of any embellishment to make members of the engineering pro- 
fession understand the exact condition of affairs. 

You are at liberty to make what use you please of this letter. 

I am, yours very truly, 

J. A. Bedbbook. 

(Copy.) 

" Ramenskoe," Madeiba Road, Stbeatham, S.W., 

8th March, 1902. 

D. B. Morison, Esq., Vice-President, North East Coast Institution of 

Engineers and Shipbuilders. 
Dear Sir, 

Since receiving your letter of 5th inst., I have carefully re-read your 
paper submitted to the North-East Coast Institution of Engineers and Ship- 
builders on the 7th February last, with the express intention of detecting 
any possible inaccuracies or exaggerations which might have crept into, its 
pages, through misunderstanding on your part, or from incorrect informa- 
tion supplied in all good faith, but nevertheless erroneous. I am bound to 
say that the most careful examination of its pages has failed to reveal any 
single statement or deduction which errs on the side of exaggeration. In 
fact, I am of opinion that seeing the mass of information you must have 
collected, and the evident sympathy with which you have carried your work 
to completion, you have exercised a strong self-control, where there must 
have been g^eat temptation to deepen the colours though ever so little. 

Speaking from the experience gained in the Navy as a sea-going engineer 
of nearly thirty-eight years continual service, I am satisfied that no abler 
contribution to the literature which the engineer question has produced 
during the past forty years, has ever issued from the press, than this of 
which I am writing. The line of action foreshadowed by your Institution 
cannot but be productive of good results in the interests of the country at 
large, and of the Navy in particular, if the taxpayers will only rouse up from 
their lethargy, and take an active interest in a subject which involves the 
safety of the national policy of insurance. 

Thanking you for the very great personal interest you have displayed 
with reference to the naval engineer question, and with a sincere hope that 
your efforts may be productive of good from the national point of view, 

I am, dear sir, yours faithfully, 

Chas. M. Johnson. 



286 DISCUSSIOX— THE ENGINEER BEANCH OF U.M. NAVY. 

(2ft) " I find a table td out for tki information, not of th* peopU 
informed upon the subject, but of Ike general public, pur- 
portinfi to give the increase- in horsepower in the Navi/. 
and Ike corresjionding increase m the engineering staff, 
and the moral in drawn Ikit the increase in personnel is 
wholly inadequate." 
The table ie correct in every particular and unfortunately fur 
the British Na^'y the moral is also only too true, 

(21) " But it it not rather an unreasonable thing that in this con- 
neetion no mention should be made of the fact Ihnt during 
the time this increase liad been going on nearly 4,0(10 
engine-room artificers had been added." 

In Appendix A, page 125 of the paper to which Mr. Arnold 
Forster refers, the number of artificers is not only mentioned, but 
it is contended that the number ia inadequate. A complete table 
ffiving the numbers of artificers from 1878 to 1900 is also clearly 
set forth on page 4 of the paper 1 submitted to the North-}iaal 
Coast Institution in 1900. 

(£2) *'/; is most important that there should be no justideation 
for a feelivg of discontent in this branch of the Royal 
Navy. I do not admit that discontent exists." 

If the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty admitted 
officially that he knew of diaconteat in this branch of the public 
service, it would be his bounden duty as a responsible official to 
remedy it; if he ia not prepared to apnly the remedy he will not 
admit the complaint. 



DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEER BRANCH OF H.M. NAVY. 237 

The engfineer officers of Her Majesty's fleet consider it their duty to make 
known to all those interested in the efficiency of the Navy, the int<'nse dis- 
satisfaction prevailing amongst them with regard to the unduly subordinate 
position their department holds in that service. 

This dissatisfaction is of long standing, affects all ranks and ratings, and, 
owing to the development of modem ships of war, leads those officers who 
are responsible to entertain grave doubts of the ability of their department 
to bear the stress to which it must be subjected during actual warfare. 

It is this discont^^nt which has driven the Admiralty to the 
adoption of all kinds of unworthy metho<ls in order to attract 
engineers to the Navy, but without success. 

Finally this question was given special prominence in the 
speeches of the following members of the House of (^ommons dur- 
ing the recent debate on the Xavy Estimates : — 

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY Mr. W. ALLAN. 

TO THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. Mr. E. M. ARCHDALE. 

Arnold Forster). Mr. JNO. DILLON. 

The EARL OF DALKEITH. Mr. H. E. DT'KE. 

Sir JAS. JOICEY, Bart. Mr. H. E. KEARLEY. 

Sir J. COLOMB, K.C.M.G. Mr. F. PLATT-HKMHNS. 

Sir J. FORTESCTTE FLANNERY. Mr. JNO. FENN. 

Colonel DENNY. Mr. W. PLUMMER. 
Colonel ROPNER. 



yOl^ XVIIL— 1901. 



rASSENGEE ACCOMMODATION IX STEAM SHIPS. 289 



ON PASSENGEE ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM SHIPS. 



By M. C. JAMES, Member of Council. 



[Read before the Institution in West Hartlepool on 

February 22nd, 1902.] 



Shipbuilders on the Noi^tli-East Coast having for so many years 
been for the most part chiefly concerned in the building of vessels 
intended almost exclusively for cargo canying pui*xx)ses, that it is 
to be feared such subjects as the arrangement of the passengers' 
cabin accommodation, and the details of fittings of the cabins 
themselves, have not received in this district such close and care- 
ful attention as they have in those shipbuilding centres which 
have been more closely identified with the building of passenger 
steamers. Within the last decade, however, there has been a 
rapidly growing disposition on the part of many of the leading 
shipbuilding firms on the North-East Coast to enter more largely 
into the construction of the best class of passenger steamers, and 
as a result some magnificent vessels of this type have been turned 
out of shipyards on the northern shipbuilding rivers. It has, 
consequently, occurred to the writer that the members of this 
Institution might with advantage devote some attention to the 
consideration of the cabin arrangements of passenger vessels and 
the details in connection therewith, and the present paper has 
been prepared, not so much with the object of advancing any very 
novel ideas or proposals on the subject, but rather to review it 
in such a way as to, if possible, incite a useful discussion on the 
points involved. 

Quite apart, too, from this purely local aspect of the matter, 
there is, also, the larger and more important national view which 
has to be borne in mind, more especially considering the very 
grave fact to which our attention was drawn by the President in 
the remarks made by him at the recent dinner of the Institution, 
when he stated that statistics showed that by far the larger num- 
ber of the passengers crossing the Atlantic are now carried by 
the German and French lines, whilst only a comparatively small 
number are patronizing the English boats, and this highly un- 



240 I'ASSKNGEH ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM SlIlPs. 

satisfactory state of things has undoubtedly been brought about 
by the very thorough manner in which the foreign companies 
eater for the passengers, and to the intelligent and careful atten- 
tion which they give to the ari-angement of cabins, attendance, 
cuisine, and more particulai'iy to their giving due regard to the 
moat trivial detail which in any way affects the comfort and 
convenience of the voyagers ; modern regular ocean travellers, 
especially Americans, being most exacting in their requirement*. 
The forward line of action adopted by the foreign lines stands 
in marked contrast to the conservatism, indifference and neglect 
characteristic of many of the leading British passenger lines. 

From tJie earliest ages there has been constructed on shipboaid 
accommodation of one kind or other for those navigating or 
working the vessel, and rooms or cabins have been provided in 
special cases for those simply journeying on the ship. Such 
accommodation, as far as we know, was generally of a severely 
plain and simple character, though in some ships of the ancients 
very luxurious quarters seem to have been fitted, such, for in- 
stance, as those referred to by Athenius in his description of that 
marvellous, if somewhat mythical, vessel said to have been built 
by Archimedes about 250 years ii.c. This craft is reputed to 
have had on the middle deck !ll) rooms, in each of which were 
four beds, and there were besides baths, gardens, a library, and 
many other conveniences too numerous to mention. The decora- 
tions, too, wore extremely elaborate, the stanchions supporting 
the upper deck represented statues of Atlas, and the ceilings 
represented the star spangled heavens. 

Cabins were first introduced into English ships about the 
middle of the 13th century, and in the year 1242 orders were 




PASSENGER ACCOMMODATlOX IN STEAM SHIPS. 241 

given to the accommodation for the passengers, for in the year 
1838 we find the advertisement of the first voyage of a new 
Atlantic steamer, staling, among other advantages, that her accom- 
modation was *' capacious and well arranged for comfort;" later 
on in the same year another new Atlantic steamer is described 
as having state-rooms ** exceedingly handsome and commodious, 
each having two berths or beds, except two rooms, which are 
fitted for the peculiar accommodation of a party, with three 
beds." There was also some attempt at artistic decoration, for 
the description states " the colouring of these nH)m8 is a warm 
delicate pink, with gorgeous damask silk hangings to correspond, 
of French white, with crimson satin stripes/' 

Notwithstanding these improvements, a trip across the 
Atlantic in a steamer at that period does not seem to havt* been 
a very comfortable journey, for we find that givat author, the 
late Mr. Charles Dickens, writing from New York in 1841? to his 
friend John Foster in London, as follows : ** We mean to return 
home in a packet-ship, not in a steamer. AVere I to tell you all 
that I observed on board the 'Britannia' you would not wonder 
at my determination never to trust myself upon the ocean in a 
steamer again.*' 

In 1850 important advances appear to have been made, for 
in a description of a new Atlantic steamer completed in that 
year it is stated '* two of the state-rooms for first-(dass passengers 
have four berths in each, all the others have only two," and the 
description of the passenger accommodation is summed up with 
the statement that *' nothing has been left undone which sc^ience 
and ingenuity can suggest to add to the comfort and con- 
venience of the passengers." 

Another important improvement was announced in 1871, 
when the White Star Line advertised steamers whose ** State- 
rooms with saloon and smoking rooms are placed amidships, and 
cabin passengers are thus removed from the noise and motion 
experienced at the after part of the vessel." 

During the last 20 years considerable changes, mostly for the 
better, have been introduced into the arrangement of the passen- 
ger accommodation, chiefly with respect to the dimensions and 
positions of the state-rooms and saloons, the grouping of the 
rooms, number of be<ls, and to numerous details of the cabin 
and other fittings. 



ii2 FASSKNGEE ACCOMUOSATION IN STEAH SHIPS. 

Ab to the situation of the quarters for the different claseee of 
passengers the old plan was to [dace the first-class accommodation 
aft, generally in a poop, the saloon being in the centre, with the 
state-rooms next to the ship's sides, and leading directly off the 
saloon. In well arranged modern passenger boats the tirst-clafls 
rooms are located amidships, the second-class cabins are placed 
aft in the poop, and the third-class or emigrants' quarters either 
right forward or in the after 'tween, decks, the latter being in 
certain services a very satisfactory arrangement on sanitary and 
other grounds. The first-class dining- saloon is now invariably 
placed amidships, this airangeuieDt having been first introduced 
in the A¥hite Star s.a. Oceanic in 1871. 

With respect to the groupinfi: of the state-rooms the old plan 
ot having an uncomfortable stuffy saloon over the propeller, 
flanked by rooms on either side and leading directly oS it, as 
shown in Fig. I, Plate XV., was very objectionable for many 
obvious reasons, and this in time gave place to an arrangement 
such as is shown in Fig. 2, Plate XA'., where the rooms are placed 
with alleyways between, from which they are entered. This 
arrangement gives much better ventilation and light, and in 
ships of large beam the rooms stand in blocks of four, as shown in 
Fig. ;{, Plate XV., the inner rooms depending for light and ventila- 
tion from hipped skyliglits fitted in the sides of deck houses and 
casings. These inner rooms have not been popular in long voyage 
sen-ices, and especially in warm climates, on account of their 
indifferent light and their general stuffiness. 

A new arrangement of tandem state-rooms has recently been 
patented by Mr. A. W. Bibby, of Liverpool, a gentleman who is 
prominently identified with the Bibby Line and the Pacific 
Steam Navitration ( 




PASSENGER ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM SHIPS. 243 

arranging certain cabins *' en suite " for the convenience of 
families, and nowadays a much larger number of single-berthed 
rooms are fitted than was formerly the practice. A noticeable 
feature, too, is the great improvement in the general get-up and 
arrangement of the second and third-class quarters. In many of 
the leading liners the second-class cabins are so well fitted as to 
be nearly equal to the first-class, whilst the modern third-class 
quarters are frequently quite equal to, if not better than, ^he first 
class cabins were in many of the older ships. A prominent 
example of this is to be found in the third-class accommodation 
as fitted in the Tyne-built Cunard liner *' Ivernia/' (See Fig. 7, 
Plate XVIII.). 

Complaints have frequently been made that far too much 
attention is given to the arrangement of the saloons, smoke room, 
social halls, library, etc., and excessive expenditure lavished on 
their furnishings and decorations. It has been advanced that this 
might with advantage be curtailed, and the money be more use- 
fully and effectively spent on the state-rooms, the absurdity of 
luxuriating in a palatial saloon during the day only to retire to 
a cramped-up, dark and indifferently ventilated state-room at 
night being only too apparent. Besides, passengers in the throes 
of mal'de-mer have perforce to spend more of their time in theii 
cabins than in the saloons, and high art decorations, though 
possibly things of beauty, yield but little joy or comfort to the sea- 
sick passenger. 

The writer having for some years been actively concerned in 
the designing of cabin accommodation and in the aiTanging of 
state-room fittings, etc., as well as having himself voyaged in 
the vessels of some of the leading passenger lines, spent some rest- 
less nights and gasped for air in some of their state-rooms, as the 
result of his observations and experience would submit the follow- 
ing points as being deserving of very special attention and con- 
sideration : — 

Height of 'tween decks : this in the old passenger boats was too 
restricted, in most modern ships it has been considerably in- 
creased, giving greater cubic capacity to the rooms and adding 
enormously to the comfort of the occupants. Size of state-rooms : 
even yet rooms are frequently much too cramped, rendering the 
operation of getting into or out of bed extremely risky, the 
passenger either barks his knees or ankles, or a portion of the scalp 



244 PASSENGER ACCOMMODATION IN STEAU SHIPS. 

is removed from his head. The writer was much struck when 
looking over an Italian passenger steamer in Genoa, where she 
was built and engined, to note the great length of the state- 
rooms ; they were quite two feet longer than ordinary English 
practice, and the rooms were thereby much more commodious. 
Number of beds in each room : as has been pointed out already, a 
much larger number of aiagle-bedded rooms are now provided in 
the best ships ; these are a great boon, particularly where 
passengers are picked up at intermediate ports, and the passenger 
who wa^ put into a double-bedded room at the tirat port of de- 
parture has an unexpected, and to him unknown and perhaps highly 
objectionable, berth companion thrust into his room at the first 
port of call. This is a standing grievance in the South American 
passenger service. An ingenious arrangement of single-berthed 
room, though somewhat cramped, is shown in I'ig. S, Plaie 
XVIII. : it has been adopted in some Atlantic liners. 

Regarding the details of the room fittings : wood linings over 
ironwork, and elaborate woihI fittings introduced for mere appear- 
ance sake, should be reduced to an absolute minimum. The space 
between the lining and the ship's side or the deck becomes a lodg- 
ing place for foul air and vermin, and largely contributes to the 
peculiar closeness so often experienced in state-rooms. The hulk- 
heads forming the sides and ends of the room should be fiuite flat 
and plain, not panelled. Venetian framing is undesirable, it 
gives but little ventilation, and forms a lodgment for dust, dirt 
and vermin. Natural ventilation is best obtained through grat- 
ings in the doors and framing, and by leaving the framing short 
by depth of the beam, the space having a perforated metfil filling 
tf. prevent rats, etc., getting through. Xo permanently fixed 




PASSEKGEB ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM SHIPS. ^4I> 

eteats should fold np to facilitate the washing and sweeping out 
of the room, and no floorcloth should be laid on the floor ; the deck 
fJanks should be simply planed, scrubbed white and clean, and a 
loose rug overlaid. 

Quickly-shutting pivoted ports of large diameter should be 
fitted to each room, and in addition to curtains, there should be 
Venetian shutters to keep out brilliant sunshine. Folding wash- 
stands have proved a great convenience, and they economise 
space, but where there is more than one bed in a room the wash- 
stand should be double, and their fronts should be fitted so as to 
fold down and form little tables. The need of the latter is much 
felt in most state-rooms. Wardrobes are usually much too small ; 
they should be quite twice the usual size, so, too, should the 
chests of drawers. Careful attention ought to be given to the 
numerous smaller fittings, such as folding racks, ajar hooks, hat 
and coat hooks, watch pockets, etc. They should be fitted in 
sufficient quantities, and in well selected positions. The pushes 
for the call bells and the electric light switches should, also, be 
placed in the most convenient positions, and the best location for 
the electric light itself ought to be duly considered. In many 
instances the racks for lifebelts are fixed in awkward situations 
above the beds, thus taking away the headroom, or sometimes the 
lifebelts are stowed under the beds, they are not then readily 
accessible in time of need ; the most compact and convenient 
arrangement is to dispense with the ordinaiy cork lifebelts, and 
supply instead combined bolster lifebelts stuffed with reindeer 
hair, these can be placed under the pillow in each bed, and no 
racks are then necessary. 

There are many other important points which the writer 
would have liked to have touched upon, but he fears he has 
already gone beyond the limits of length of an ordinary paper. 
Some of these points would indeed require separate papers to do 
them anything like justice. The questions of electric fittings, 
lighting, and ventilation have already been ably and fully dealt 
with in papers read before the Institution. As to the warming 
arrangements usually employed, the writer considers steam 
heating for cabins an abomination, and it is an endless source of 
worry and expense. A simple yet effective system of warming 
by means of heated air has yet to be devised. 

The sanitary arrangements of a passenger ship is an intricate 
question which the writer trusts some member will deal with in 
VOL. xvni.— Moai 18 



246 PASSENGER ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM SHIPS. 

a special paper. So, too, is the large and interesting subject of 
the decorative treatment of saloons and cabins. Our Council has 
already suggested these as suitable subjects for papers, and it is 
to be hoped they will soon be forthcoming. 

In conclusion the writer craves the indulgence of the 
members for the very incomplete manner in which the subject 
of passenger accommodation has been treated in this paper. He 
trusts, however, it may serve the purpose of opening out the 
subject for discussion, and draw forth some interesting and 
valuable contributions to the Transactions. 

The President said — ^Mr. James, in his paper, refers to some 
remarks I made at the annual dinner. The statement that I saw 
in one of the newspapers showed something like 21,000 passengers 
carried by the Hamburg-America line, 21,000 carried by the 
North German Lloyd, and only 7,000 carried by the White Star 
line. Since that time I have had an opportunity of inspecting 
the official statistics of the number of passengers landed at New 
York by the various steamship lines, and am pleased to tind the 
difference is not so great. The number instead of being 3 to 1 
was perhaps 2 or 2^ to 1, yet an explanation throws a good 
deal of light on the difEerence. The number of steerage 
passengers carried by the German lines is enormously in excess 
of the number carried by the White Star line, and perhaps that 
is only natural, seeing there is so much emigration from Russia 
and Germany, and, in fact, all Europe. But taking the number 
of first and second class passengers carried it is altogether differ- 
ent. The number of first and second class passengers carried 
by the White Star line is almost exactly the same as the 
number carried by the Hamburg- America or the North German 
Lloyd lines, although the sailings of the two latter lines greatly 
exceed the White Star sailings. Again, taking the first and 
second class, the average number of passengers carried out and 
home by the White Star line is 163 per trip, the average for 
the North German Lloyd is 115 per trip, and the average for 
the Hamburg-America line 116 per trip. These figures show 
that the White Star line is still a veiy popular one for this class 
of passengers. 

The discussion was adjourned until the next general meeting. 
The meeting then dissolved. 



PROCEEDINGS. 247 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



FIFTH GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
MARINE SCHOOL, OCEAN ROAD, SOUTH SHIELDS, ON FRIDAY 
EVENING, MARCH 21st, 1902. 



Ald. JOSEPH M. RENNOLDSON, J P., Vice-President, in the Chair. 



The Vice-President said — I regret that the President, Mr. 
Withy, is absent in London and cannot be with us to-night. 
I am sure we would have been verj- pleased if he had been able 
to visit South Shields. 

The Secretary read the minutes of the Foui-th General Meet- 
ing held at West Hartlepool, on the 22nd February, 1902, which 
were approved by the members present and signed by the Vice- 
President. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the Vice- 
President appointed Mr. George Donkin, jun., and Mr. William 
Paulin to examine the voting papers, and the following gentle- 
men were declared elected : — 

MEMBERS. 
Fairbairn, Archbold, Engineer. Violet Street, South Hylton, Sunderland. 
Findlay, John Taylor, Ship Surveyor, Lloyds Register, 3, St. Nicholas' Huild- 

ing8, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 
Oeddes, Frank, Engineer, The Grove, Shotley Bridge, Co. Durham. 
Latta, James G., Consulting Engineer, 78, Billiter Buildings, Bill iter Rtreet, 

London, B.C. 

TOL, zynL-iMi. 19 



PBOCEEDINGB. 

Miictarlane, Archibald P^ Supt. Eneineer, 15, BeacoD Street, Low Fell, Gatcs- 
heai)-on-Tjne. 

Peat, Herbert, Engineer Inspector, 12, Cheltenharo Terrace, Healon, New- 
castle-upon-Tyne. 

Snell, John 1''. C, Electrical Engineer. Borongh Electrical Engineer, Town 
Hall, Sunderland. 

ORADDATB TO MEMBER. 
Daniel*en, John William, Engineer, Highfield, Farqnhar Road, Birmiiigiiam. 

ASSOCIATES. 

Harris, John T., Accountant, Messrs, Irvine's Shipbnilding Co., Ltd., West 

Hartlepool. 
Taylor, Edward, Manufacturer, Tyneside Works, Scots wood -on -Tyne. 
Taylor, Swainson T., Mannfacturer, Tyneside Works, ScotBWood-on-Tjne. 

GRADUATES. 

Anderson, Thomas C, App. Eogincer, Biggea Main Honae, Wallsend-on-Tync. 
Tulip, Wilfred, Engineer Draughcaman, Wbinney Hill, Choppington, Uorpetb. 



PHESENTATION. 
The Vice-Prksidknt preseiited Mr. Edwin Griffitt with the 
engineering gold medal awarded to him for his paper on " Water 
Tube Boilers " read before the Institution last session. 



The diHirussion on Mr. E. C. Chnstoii's paper on " The Ballast- 
iQfr of Modern Trnnip Steamers " was resumed. 




DISCUSSION BALLASTING OF TRAMP STEAMERS. 249 



RESUMED DISCUSSION ON MR. E. C. CHASTON'S PAPER 
ON "THE BALLASTING OF MODERN TRAMP 
STEAMERS/' 

The Secretary read the following communication : — 

Beechcroft, Clifton Avenue, 

West Hartlepool, 

20M March, 1902. 
Dear Mr. Duckitt, 

As I cannot be present at the meeting to-morrow I beg to 
offer the following remarks on Mr. Chaston's paper: — The sub- 
ject of it, " Ballasting of Modem Tramp Steamers,'* is receiving 
more attention now than it did a few years ago. It is now 
generally acknowledged that insufficient ballasting has a lot to 
do with the breaking of shafts, propellers and steam pipes, and 
straining of machinery. Owners fully realise this, and are 
making enquiries as to how best to get sufficient water ballast 
capacity in new ships. 

The examples given in Mr. Chaston's paper show that 
modem cargo steamers of 5,700 tons deadweight capacity with 
only the ordinary provision for water ballast are not seaworthy 
without additional weight in them. They also show that 500 
tons to 750 tons of additional ballast judiciously placed on 
board of such vessels makes them seaworthy and enables them to 
voyage in ballast with the certainty of not being driven out of 
their course by stormy weather, and also of reducing the risk of 
straining the machinery. 

Some authorities have advocated a very large increase of 
ballast capacity, which would add considerably to the cost of 
vessels, but the examples given by Mr. Chasten, and borne out 
by experience with other ships, show that safety is ensured by 
a moderate increase of ballast. 

During the recent storms, and since Mr. Chaston's paper 
was written, two steamers stranded on the noTth-east q^ 



250 DISCUSSION BALLASTING OF TEAMF STEAMERS. 

at the Board of Trade enquiry in each case the vessels were 
pronounced to be unaeaworthy by reason of their not having had 
sufficient ballast on board, and the captains were held respon- 
sible. I^ow it is manifestly unfair that captains should be held 
responsible for taking ships to sea insufficiently ballasted when 
there is no regular standard of draft of water or other measure 
to guide them as to what is sufficient ballasting. And it does 
not seem honest on the part of the Itoard of Trade to prosecute 
captains for the insufficient ballasting of their ships when even 
the courts which are called upon to adjudicate have no standard 
to guide them in arriving at their decisions. 

It is no doubt of advantage that enquiries should be held 
into the causes of the stranding of ships and that the facts 
should be ascertained in cases of insufficient ballasting, for the 
guidance of the Board of Trade in framing regulations. 

Some progress might be made in the matter if the Board of 
Trade were to get a committee appointed consisting of ship- 
owners, shipbuilders, underwriters, register societies and others 
to formulate and recommend a general underload line scale which 
need not be compulsory, but could be tried and revised after- 
wards, if experience showed that to be necessary, before being 
finally adopted. 

Captains would then have a guide to the ballasting of their 
ships, and in building new vessels owners could, if they desired, 
stipulate for sufficient wafer ballast capacity in case they wished 
to l>e free from the necessity of shipping rubbish ballast. The 
courts also would have a recognized standard by which to trj' 
cases nf alleged under-ballasting and some show of reason in 
finding owners and captains responsible if their disi'egarding 



DISCUSSION — BALLASTING OF TEAMP STEAMEES. 251 



MR. E. C. CHASTON'S REPLY. 

Mr. E. C. Ch ASTON replied to the discussion. He said: — 
Before directly replying to the discussion, I take the liberty of 
deviating somewhat, by putting before the members the 
Plates numbered XIX. and XX. Fig. 5 (Plate XIX.) shews 
the ballast trim water line AA of the present type of cargo 
steamer as originally designed, with a double bottom water ballast 
capacity of about 813 tons. The ballast trim water line BB shews 
the trim with about 780 tons additional water ballast in 'tween 
deck tanks. Fig. 6 (Plate XIX.) is supplemental to Fig. 5, and 
shews the drafts through the three mid-ships sections under the 
conditions as before stated, l^his diagram fully demonstrates the 
helpless and dangerous conditions under which a vessel is placed 
on a lee shore with a light load draft as shewn on water line AA, 
and the huge freeboard exposed to the full force of a gale. 
Plate XX. shews the general aiTangement of 'tween deck 
ballast tanks, and is only put before the members of the Institution 
in the hope that it may be of some use to them. 

Regarding Mr. AVithy's remarks as to the number of ships 
stated in my paper as having come to grief through want of 
ballast (see pages 59 and (iO), I have looked carefully into the cases 
of the 39 steamers on the list, and the nature of their trades, and 
have come to the conclusion that at least 22 of the 39 mishaps can 
be traoed to want of sufficient ballast. It is quite a common thing 
for a vessel of 5,000 to 7,000 tons to be threshing away across 
the Atlantic for from 16 to 19 days in ballast and arrive at her 
destination safely, take her cargo, sail homeward and lose her 
propeller, etc., or break her shaft before she gets across the 
Atlantic again. Although the vessel is loaded at the time of 
the mishap, it can safely be assumed that the defects developed 
when the vessel was outward bound in ballast. This is common 
knowledge among superintendents and marine sui-veyors. In 
further proof of this theory it is a remarkable fact that oil boats 
seldom have shaft breakages, etc. 

With reference to Captain Lord being in favour of the deep 
tank, I may say that in my paper I did not advocate any special 
means of extra ballasting, but I have recently gone very closely 
into the matter as to what is the best type of ballast tank. No 



'2i>'2 DISCUSSIO.V— BALLASTING OF TBAUF STEAJlElLS. 

doubt the deep tank is ttie simplest and perhaps the cheapest 
type, hut 90 far as I can find, the following are its objectionable 
features : — 

(a) Liability to have leaky bulkheads. 

(b) Necessity of having Hmall hatches into one of the prin- 

cipal holds. 

(c) Difficulty of cleaning and drying as compared with 

'tween deck tanks. 
{•/) Loss in stowage if longitudinal divisions are fitted, 

increased comparative cost, and additional weight of 

material. 
(e) The ship is not so eaay in a sea-way. 

The following, to my mind, are the features in favour of 
'tween deck tanks: — 

(«) Weight of water being more longitudinal than vertical, 
there is less pressure against the bulkhead and con- 
sequently less risk of leaking, the 'tween deck beams 
practically taking the place of bulkhead extra stilf- 
eners. There is less broken stowage in measurement 
cargo. 

(?*) SiKe of hatch into lower main hold is not interfered with. 

(k) Less trouble to clean and dry, due to the fact that they 
can be cleaned and dried while the vessel is loading 
in her lower holds. 

(fl) 'Tween deck tanks as shewn in Fig. 7 (Plate XX.) give 
better trimming facilities than might be necessary when 
bunkering for any particular voyage, i.e., the approxi- 
mate 800 tons in two tanks instead of one deep tank ; 
ad one tank only cun iheiffure bo ulili/e<l if renuirwl 




Discussion — ballasting of tramp streamers. 268 

It is to be regretted that those members of this Institution 
who have experience with oil tank steamers have not come for- 
ward to state their opinions as to the behaviour of that type of 
vessel in various trims and also to give us some data relating to 
the low percentage of machinery defects as compared with ordin- 
ary tramp steamers. 

Since reading my paper, I notice that this question of ballast 
is receiving more attention from shipowners and their advisers. 
I therefore hope and expect that Lord Muskeny*s proposed 
Under-load Line Bill will not be necessaiy. The economic 
value of having our tramps built as it were to face anything and 
go anywhere in ballast trim, should be apparent to any one who 
is interested in the welfare and prosperity of British shipping, 
without having Bills passed in Parliament to teach interested 
parties practical common sense. 

The proper ballasting of steamers seems to be rather a ques- 
tion of cost than lack of knowledge, and I feel sure that any 
shipowner who is properly advised will face the cost, knowing 
that it will eventually be to his own interest, in considerably 
reducing sea risks, and I believe that it is only then that we 
shall hear less of the loss of vessels through stranding, long pas- 
sages and consequent missing of cancelling dates and markets, 
not to mention time lost in repairing abroad with consequent 
heavy repair bills, all of which are incidental to the present day 
type of 6,000 to 7,000 tons tramp steamer. 

Regarding Mr. McGlashan's remarks in relation to ballast 
in side tanks, I carefully read his paper some time ago, and to 
my mind maintenance when the vessels so fitted have got a little 
age on them appeared to me to be rather costly. As to the two 
steamers stranding, in one case the owners were held responsible. 

I regret that my reply to the discussion has been somewhat 
hurriedly drawn up. I therefore crave the indulgence of the 
members of this Institution towards any weak points which they 
may detect. 

The Vice-President — You have now heard Mr. Chaston's 
reply. I move that the best thanks of the meeting be given to 
him for his very able paper. I am sure you will all agree that 
it is a subject which needs the very closest attention of every one 
interested in naval architecture. 

The motion was carried by hearty acclamation. 



MscussioN — Notes on steam tubbInes. 255 



RESUMED DISCUSSION ON MR. F. J. WARBURTON S 
PAPER ON • SOME NOTES ON STEAM TURBINES." 

The Vice-President — Mr. Warburton's paper is now open 
for further discussion. 

Mr. Edwin W. De Rusett — I should like to ask a question 
on Mr. Warburton's paper. AVould he kindly explain to us how 
the thrust of the propeller is taken up? 

Mr. Edwin Griffith said — I wish to make a few remarks 
upon Mr. Warburton's paper, chiefly because I have been asso- 
ciated with him in connection with some tests of the tur- 
bine which he has described. I would suggest to Mr. War- 
burton that perhaps he might be able to give some of the results 
he has obtained with the experimental turbines. These possibly 
are not yet in a form that he can give any valuable information 
of a quantitative character, but he may perhaps be able to state 
some results of an interesting nature. For example, in a tur- 
bine that he tested at Liverpool when I was present we measui'ed 
the water used for half an hour with the turbine ininning at 
about 3,000 or 4,000 revolutions per minute. AVe then stopped 
the engine by tightening the brake, leaving all other conditions 
unaltered, and measured the water used during the next half- 
hour, which we found to be the same quantity as when the tur- 
bine was running. I think that statement is correct. 

Mr. Warburton — Yes. 

Mr. Griffith — I think that is a fact which will interest the 
meeting; I do not think it is in the paper. 

Mr. Warburton — No, it is not. 

Mr. Griffith — The result I have referred to does not in- 
dicate that the turbine was necessarily wasteful, though at first 
it might appear to do so. I can bear testimony to the 
quick reversibility of the turbine. In an experiment of a tur- 



256 DISCISSION — NorKS OS STEAU TUHBINE8. 

bine I saw, it was rcTcrsed fiom several thousand revolutions 
per minute one way to several thousand the other in a few 
seconds, and it must be very apparent to every engineer that 
this kind of turbine is a very governable engine, because in vary- 
ing the positiou of the reversing lever which admits steam into 
each compartment you govern at every stage. Supposing thei-e 
are fifty compaitments you govern eveiy one of them instantan- 
eously. So I should say that this turbine is one of the moat 
governable as well as the most reversible engine that Las ever 
been proposed. In this district, just now, there will be an oppor- 
tunity of comparing the economy of the turbine with the recip- 
rocating engine in rather an iiitei-eating way. At the Neptune 
Power Station there haa been working now for a short time a 
Pai-sous' turbine of 2,000 I.H.P., and it so happens that there is 
an ordinary reciprocating engine there of 1,000 I.H.P., installed 
by the Wallsend .Slipway and Engineering Company, in which the 
bed rock of economy has been reached for such engines. I shall be 
rather surprised if the economy of the turbine on actual service will 
come up to that of the engine referred tu, especially taking the 
varying loads into account. It might possibly approach it on 
a good load. Of course, bearing on that question, the turbine 
probably will not be used except at a high load, whereas the other 
engines will be used at more varyiug loads, that being the most 
serviceable way of using turbines in conjunction with an ordin- 
ary engine. Let the ordinary engine have the low and moderate 
loads, then put on the turbine for a spurt for a few hours, and 
knock it oS again when the loa^ls go down. I think it is recog- 
niKpd that existing turbines are not economical at low loa^ls, while 
there is comparatively little difference in the best reciprocating 




DISCUSSION — XOTES OX STEAM irRHlXKS. -«»7 

much more efficient than the radial form, the reverse siile of the 
curved vanes is about equal in eftect to the radial shape. It is 
possible that the steam current forms vortices in the eoruers of 
the cells which, as it were, fill up the spaces, giving much the 
same effect as if the vanes were straight. 

Any reversible steam turbine, however, is bound to he more 
or less of a compromise according to the nature of the work 
expected of it, and it is for the designer to decide, iu cousiih'r- 
ing his shapes of vanes and dimensions of nozzles, how far this 
compromise is to be carried out, as it might well be advisable, 
in the case of a vessel requiring quick mauceuvring qualities, to 
sacrifice a certain amount of steam economy ahead, foi* rapid 
and powerful reversibility. 

In reply to Mr. P. Mayson Bennett one may perhaps he 
permitted to congratulate him on the high *' inechaiiical elli- 
ciency" of his remarks, for the maximum number of (jiicslioiiH 
is undoubtedly compressed into the minimum amoiiiil of space, 
and I am very much afraid that the time at our (lis|)osaI will 
not permit of a full and comprehensive reply to carh one. 

Shapes of Orifices. — I will refer Mr. ]^»nn(»tt to I'ndcHMor 
Rankine's book on AjipUed Mechanics, page 070 and following, 
to be obtained at the Xorth-East Coast Institution library, and 
also to the works of Napier and CottMill. The Hubji»r't of <h<* 
flow of gases through orifices and nozzles is fully i*\iiu\\\\i*i\ in 
these works, and the turbine designer follows theM(» contluHionH, 
Apart from making small allowances for partieuhir eaM*H, fh<» 
writer has always pinned his faith to the above. 

Theory of Speed of Vone^. -In a simple impuU*' (urbin<% 
such as shown in Fig. '> (Plate V.;, I)r, Laval hah nhown 
years ago that the best sj>eed for th** whe^d van<"r jtt about 1*0 
per cent., or *" just under half" th<' hjj^fed of tin* ^.U'ntn a»? ^tiaiiul 
in the paper. Any <>tafjdard work on wat^T lijrbin<'»^ qiiot4'*> 
about the same for Pelton whe*d*s, Uateau, in bin Kntjhf.h I'tihnt 
Sptcificaiionfj g^ive?? 40 i>ei cent, a** \t**Mi ♦►jx-ed, but lhi>r i** bw auMf 
his moving vane* are to a c^-rtaifj nxiffui bifli'oidal in ariang*'- 
ment and the whole •►team *:ufstfui /o!Joh> a t^piral ijim^* tloy^it 
the turbine cylindei in a fev«-rM? tlin^ttiou to tU*i loti^Kha «ih;iit, 

Exjfantion tntir^Jy fo4 w lad Impoii 'rarhms dtttr/htd, 
Beferring ICr. Bennett itui-M a;<a;ij u^ tij«' La%aJ \m\i\u^', \ ^m-^/ ^o 
again quote Dr. Laval'*? o«ij ^J^ijuj* v^'hi^h ait- j«ii?f >5.«'<; }y\ ii*- 



258 Dlt<CUSSI0I4^MuTKS OlS UtEAM TURBtNES. 

excellent Bieam economy obtained by him. This will lead to my 
point re expansion in the last turbine described in the paper. 
"The function of the steam nozzle is to convert the whole avail- 
able energy of the steam into mass X velocity in the required 
direction. It should therefore be designed to expand the steam 
to the same pressure as that of the wheel chamber before delivery 
on to the vanes." That is to say, that the whole expansion is 
accomplished within the fixed nozzle and none whatever between 
the moving blades. In this connection the equation /*!' = con- 
stant is useful, together with certain co-efficients according to 
the particular case. Now it is equally possible to sub-divide 
this one stage or fall from initial to final head into a number of 
smaller stages or steps by arranging several Laval wheels in 
series on one shaft, using only a poi-tion of the head or pressure 
at each step. This shaft thus collects the total available output 
of useful work at much fewer R.P.M. for the same diameter 
wheels. The speed then depends on the number of wheels 
arranged in series and has obvious practical advantages; it 
cannot therefore for a moment be maintained that the steam is 
not expanded just as much in one case as in the other. 

Steam Ct/nsumptivn. — Some figures are mentioned by Mr, 
IJennett relating to steam consumptions obtained by Mr. Par- 
sons, but as no pai-ticulars are given as regards the conditions 
of running, sizes and power of machines referred to it is not 
easy to discuss them. It is of coui-se well known that Mr. Par- 
sons' Klbei'feldt machines have given results which compare well 
with the best reciprocating engines of equal power. It is also 
becoming generally recognised that steam turbines below say 
50 It.H.P. cannot compare in steam consumption with a good 
jrocating engine- Thp tuturt- resulls of the steam turbir 




' DISCUSSION — NOTES ON STEAM TURBINES. 259 

which, when boiled down and licked into shape, will, I hope, 
form the subject of a further paper to place before the Society. 

Condensing. — A large increase in efficiency is obtained by 
condensing, especially at from 24 to 27 inches vacuum, as at 
these low pressures the steam increases very rapidly in volume. 

Balance. — The machine illustrated in Fig. 4 (Plate VI.) 
was found to be almost perfectly balanced endways, and the 
little differences, if any, were taken up on the bearings. 

Reversing. — ^I will refer Mr. Bennett to my reply to Mr. 
London. 

Floating Packing Rings. — The leakage past the floating rings 
was usually about 5 per cent, of the total steam passing through 
the machine, but this will be improved upon with better work- 
manship. 

Weight of Floating Packing Rings. — Mr. Bennett will find, in 
the North-East Coast Institution library, a contribution to the 
.Journal of the American Society of Naval Engineer s^ vol. ix., 
1897, by Professor Albert Kingsbury, entitled, " An Air-lubri- 
cated Journal," where the behaviour of a film of st^am or other 
gas between fixed and moving surfaces is very fully discussed, 
and where it is clearly shown that a film of steam will support, 
a very considerable rotating weight. 

Experimental results. — In reply to Mr. C. H. Innes — I will 
refer him to my reply to Mr. Bennett. 

Hydraulic efficiency. — I quite agree that the ratio of work 
per pound of steam done on the wheels to that which would be 
obtained from the steam in an ideal engine working in Rankine's 
cycle which might, to coin a convenient term, be called the 
" Rankine ratio," for a steam turbine would undoubtedly be a 
most useful quantity not only in the design of steam turbines, 
but also in comparing the various efficiencies of blade forms on 
which this co-efficient depends. 

Rateau Turbine. — In reply to Mr. C. J. A. London — The 
sources of information from which I extracted my observations 
on these turbines are as follows : — M. Rateau and Messrs. Sautter 
Harle of Paris, English Patent Specifications, several communica- 
tions by Prof. Rateau in the leading French technical papers, a 
descriptive pamphlet and photograph of a 700 K.W. turbo- 
dynamo which is, I believe, running in their own works, and in 
this and last week's Engineer M. Rateau describes a very inter- 



260 UlSCUSSION — NOTES ON NTEAH TrRBINBS. 

eating turbine- driven fan, which, accordin^^ to the figures pub- 
lished, is extremely efficient for high air presaures such as are 
used for cupolas, etc. I have also heard on good authority that 
a vedette boat in the French Navy is being fitted with these 
turbinea. 

Rapid Reversal. —-The reversing turbine tested by the writer 
was quite small, giving about -3 B.H.P., and waa none the worse 
for the strain, as the cellular form of wheel is strong and the 
shaft was of ample dimensions. Moreover, as there were 20 
wheels in series and 4 nonzles to each wheel, the steam pressure 
waa very evenly distributed, and when the lever was thrown 
over, opening the reversal ports, the steam acted as a perfectly 
elastic cushion, bringing the machine to reat without the slightest 
shock or injury. 

Large marine turbines of course revolve much more slowly, 
and the writer sees no reason why the mechanism described 
should not be a convenient and practical means for their control 
and reversal if due attention is paid to the proper distribution 
of the steam jets over the revolving discs and to the proportions 
of the rotating parts. 

In reply to Mr. E. AY. de Rusett— End thrust might be taken 
up by an ordinary thrust block or balanced by admitting steam 
to the space between the sets of large and small floating rings 
at the ends of the shaft. 

K.r pcrimental rtsiiUx, — Tn reply to Mr. Edwin Griffith — I 
will refer Mr. Griffith to my reply to Mr. Itennett under this 
heading. The rate of steam tiow in all steam turbines remains 
practically constant whether running or held stationary, as 
described, just as in the case of a water wheel or turbine held 




DISCUSSION — NOTES ON STEAM TURBINES. 261 

into the questioa raised, I only have to add that if any of my 
remarks have succeeded in stimulating some train of thought 
which might otherwise have lain dormant the purpose of these 
notes on turbines will have been amply fulfilled. 

The Vice-President — I have much pleasure in moving that 
the best thanks of the meeting be given to Mr. Warburton for 
his excellent paper. 

This motion was carried with cordial acclamation. 



DISCUSSION ACCOMMODATIOX IN STEAMSHIPS. 263 



niSCFSRION.OX MR. M. C. JAMES\S PAPER ON "PAS- 
SENGER ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSHIPS." 

Mr. Edwin W. De Rfsett said — I have not had the pleasure 
of hearing the paper read, neither have I heard any remarks 
which may have been made. Therefore, if in any way I touch 
on ground that others have already touched upon, possibly you 
will forgive me. There is one remark in the early part of this 
admirable paper which I certainly cannot fall in line with. It 
occurs at the bottom part of the second paragraph, in which the 
author states : " The forward line of action adopted by the foreign 
lines stands in marked contrast to the conservatism, indifference, 
and neglect characteristic of many of the leading British passen- 
ger lines.'' I must at once challenge that word *' neglect." 
Speaking for myself as a British naval architect, I have travelled 
a great deal in all sorts of liners for the purpose of finding 
out what passengers really need and what should be done to 
meet their requirements, and doubtless others in my profession 
have done the same. Besides, surely neglect can hardly be coupled 
with the honoured name we have earned as the foremost maritime 
nation. The histoiy of the development of passenger cabin 
accommodation is very interesting. No doubt we have learned 
some interesting facts when reading through the historical 
portion of the paper. With regard to the various cabins referred 
to, I am conversant with all of them, but there are some not 
mentioned, and with your permission I w411 add one or two illus- 
trations, which although designed some 18 or 20 years ago for 
vessels of 43 to 44 feet beam may still be of some practical in- 
terest (see Plate XXI.). The designs are somewhat similar 
to the patent berths illustrated in Figs. 4 and 5 (Plate XVI.), as all 
the berths had side ventilation and side light. Each formed a 
gi-oup of three cabins, with doors opening into a lobby for privacy. 
In plan A are shewn three cabins, each with two fore and aft 
berths and an athwartship sofa seat, also fold-up lavatories. 
Two cabins have wardrobes with drawers under, and the third 
has drawers under the sofa seat. In plan li there is also a 
group of 3 cabins, with a total of 5 bei*ths and 2 sofa berths, all 
placed fore and aft. Fold-up lavatories and chests of drawers, 

vol* XTII|.-liOI. ^^^ 



264 DISCXISSION — ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSHIPS. 

also sofa seata with drawers under are provided. The peculiarity 
of design B is that the berth in the inner cabin is placed suffi- 
ciently high off the deck to enable part of the foot end of each of 
the sofa berths to project under it, so saving fore and aft space, a» 
illustrated by the elevation. The fore and aft passage ways were 
lighted by skid skylights and other suitable means. I think 
where we naval architects are at a disadvantage is that we do not 
as a body travel enough. We read our text-books and attend 
classes and meetings like these, but we need more than these aids 
to fit us for our work. We need to come more into contact with 
those whom we seek to 8en"e, hence, with this object in view, we 
should travel about and see as much as possible, I understand the 
German students lay themselves out for this, and put themselves to 
a good deal of inconvenience to see what is being done, far more so 
than we do. We nee<l to see absolutely what is going on afloat, 
to get amongst the passengers, speak to thera and learn their ideas, 
acquaint ourselves with the various working departments of 
the ship, give up your dinner now and again, and see how the 
dinner is served. See how the stores are stored and issued, anil 
leam the routine work. I speak of passenger ships. By po 
doing a lot of valuable information will be obtained. In a 
word, when designing put yourself in the place of those who 
travel and of those who work the ship. I think we naval archi- 
tects have done veiy well, but we can do better. Our friends the 
foreigners have wisely copied us, and from experimental know- 
ledge have improved on what we have done, but they have had 
the money, derived from larger subsidies and bounties. Con- 
sequentiy they can afford to spend more than we can do, who 
have Imt little more to depend on than the unaided eamiiif^ 




DISCUSSION — ^ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSHIPS. 266 

author. They are a most desirable provision, but you cannot 
afford to provide many such cabins unless you have revenue de- 
rived from other sources than passengei-s. I believe, had our 
Government assisted our mail steamship lines as foreign Govern- 
ments have theirs, we should still have held the blue ribbon 
of the seas. There is another point I should like to refer to, 
viz., the value of details. The Americans are ever alive to 
details, as instanced by their trade catalogues, etc. Comfort, 
like life, is made up of little things, a jarring door li(K)k for 
instance. Did you ever endeavour to sleep in a cabin with a 
jarring door hook? You cannot sleep, liut the thing is remedied 
at once by a little piece of indiarubber inserted in the eye 
in which the tapered door hook catches. An unsecured door is 
banging to and fro as the vessel rolls. A little automatic spring 
will catch the door and cure it. A piece of felt or rubber placed 
at bearing ends of hard wood framing where liable to creak will 
keep it quiet. These may seem but trivial matters, but I am 
sure passengers appreciate them, and they tend materially to 
give a vessel a good name for comfort. For otherwise the moat 
beautiful apartment will be discounted in the burst of temper 
provoked by the jarring and banging door or creaking woodwork. 
We need to pay more heed to these things and get the little 
details right as well as the broad ideas of our general scheme. 

Mr. A. CniSHOLM said — I rise with great diffidence to speak 
on a paper by such an able member as Mr. James, and especially 
after our able friend Mr. De Rusett. He has covered some of 
the remarks which I had wished to make with reference to the 
cabin, but there is one more remark which I would like to add 
which has suggested itself to me. When Mr. James mentions 
the Bibby arrangement of cabin it seems such an extravagant 
thing, if we can get light and air without going exactly to the 
side. In cases where we have deck houses I think that an 
arrangement of a double coaming might \>e utilised. (Mr. 
Chisholm made a sketch on the blackboard showing a span coam- 
ing with the incidence of light falling into the inner cabin 
below— see Plate XXII.) You do not get such a direct light 
with a square coaming. That is one of the principal items I 
wished to bring before this meeting, and ]>robably the siiggc^s- 
tion may be carried out by some one. 



2Gfi DISCDSSION ACCOMMODATION I\ STEAMSHIPS. 

The Skcretary~I have the two followinff communications 
upon this paper. One ia from Mr. Caims, who is with Messrs. 
Vickera, Maxim & Co., at liarrow-in-Furness, and the othor is 
from Mr, W. L. Hall, of Birmingham, who, I believe. ha« had a 
great- deal of experience in the setting out of cabins. 

1 J A REO W - I»I - F r RX KS S , 

March nth. 1902. 
Dear Mr, Dickitt, 

Mr. .lames's paper will no doubt be of great interest to naval 
architects. Perhaps the engineering members may in this dis- 
cussion represent the travelling public as well as themselves, 
and make a few comments. 

I hope Mr. James is not too seiious in his contrasting of con- 
tinental perfection as against Itritish backwardness. 

It must not be forgotten that the man (or company) with the 
latest ship has the advantage of coming into the business when 
somebody else has shown the way. The moat famous of the 
foreign built passenger ships are of very recent date, whilst in 
the Atlantic trade, which Mr. -Tames cites, the ships of the greater 
British lines are in most cases considerably older. Anotlier 
jioint to remenil>er is that in many fields of German enterprise, a 
gi-eat deal of go-ahead extension has been done on bonxiwed 
miiiiey, easily obtained at the time, but on which present oiiTum- 
stances do not seem to promise much return, I do not know 
whether this applies to Gennan shipping, but it seems to be ver>- 
geiieral in German industrial atfairs. Most of the improve- 
ments anil advances mentioned by Mr. -lames are stated to lie 
of British origin. In the face of tills, and many other facts, it 




IJISCCSSION— ACCOMMODATION IN STKAMSlitPS. 267 

tioii insepai-able from high-speed reciprocating engines, even 
where four-crank arrangements are adopted. 

The vibratoiy etfects are usually local in character, i)erhap8 
severely felt in one state room, and unnoticeable in another; and 
unfortunately spring beds as at present fitted respond to the 
vibrations at any point where they occur : woi-se than that, they 
magnify them. 

The principle which this nuisance follows may be simply 
understood by holding up a weight by a spring or by a string of 
rubber. If the band be held stationary, and the weight set to 
vibrate up and down, it will be found that the weight so sup- 
ported haii a natural period or rate of vibration, say (iO times per 
minute. 

If the weight be now brought to rest and a slow regular 
movement of the hand up and down be made, say 'M) times per 
minute, the weight will be found to follow the hand, and copy 
its motion, with a travel about one- third greater. If the hand 
be moved, say 50 times per minute, the motion will again be 
copied by the weight, but magnified over three times, whilst if 
the hand be moved (iO times per minute, the motion will become 
too wild to be dealt with. 

Increasing the vibrations per minute of the hand will be 
found (beyond this rate which coincides with the natui-al un- 
forced rate) to reduce the motion of the weight, until at 120 per 
minute the weight will be found to move only about one-third 
as far a^* the hand, and beyond this rat« still farther decrease 
takes place, until the weight may even remain practically steady 
a8 if oblivious of the movement of the upper end of its elastic 
support. 

More elaborate apparatus for this experiment can be easily 
devised. 

I cannot at present make the experiment mentioned above, 
although I have made several similar to it, with no more elaboi- 
ate apparatus than sticks, string, a weight, and a spring such as 
may be obtained from any ironmonger. So I have taken the 
factoids for comparative motion of hand and weight from a chaj)- 
ter in Professor Perry's Applied Mechanics — a chapter which 
lends an added interest to one's experiences while pei-forming 
the part of weight, while a ship's berth fills the role of spring 
and the vibrating state-room starts the shaking process. 



^68 DISCUSSION — ACCOMHUDATION IN ST£AMSHI1>S. 

Here the effect is modified by the friction of the hedding, 
but in general the case complies with the principles exemplified 
by the weight and spring just mentioned. We may, therefore, 
conclude at once that a cure would be found by constructing 
the beds so as to have a smaller natural frequency of vibration, 
measured when loaded with a passenger of average weight. 
This could be done by; — 
(«) Increasing the length of spring mattresB. 
{b) Dispensing with spring attachment at sides; supplying 
instead loosely hanging safety loops to prevent the 
passenger from falling through between the mattress 
and frame. 
{c) Decreasing the tension of the bed, that is, making it of 
a weaker texture, so that an occupant of a given weight 
will produce more "sag" than at present. 
A combination of these methods would probably "slow" (he 
bed sufficiently to let it cease to mi^^ify the vibration of its 
points of attachment. They would probably be cheaper than any 
possible anti-vibration attachment to the ship. A few experi- 
ments by those immediately concerned would settle the matter. 
I fear I have taken up a lot of time with this appaiently 
trivial matter; but hope it will meet the eye and approval of 
those that <!eal with these matters either as superintendents or as 
bed manufacturers, bo that some day we may hope not only for 
rapid transit, but for a comfortable sleep on the way, free from 
the senaations of a ride over rough cobble stones. 

With regai-d to the subject of heating, perhaps some of our 
electrical members could give figures as to the results obtained 
rith electrical heatera, either of the incandescent lamp type, 




msctjsslon — accommodation in steamships. 269 

Tranmere, St. Bernard's Road, 

Olton, Near Birmingham, 

March 19M, 1902. 
Dear Mr. Duckitt, 

Mr. James's paper has oi>ened up a veiy interesting subject, 
especially deserving consideration of North-East Coast ship- 
owners and shipbuilders, to whom in many cases the comfort of 
the " living freight " has in the past been a ** thing of no im- 
portance.'' 

Touching first the advances made in passenger cabin accom- 
modation, Mr. James has gone to much trouble in obtaining and 
giving illustrations of the improvements made in our important 
passenger lines ; and he gives, concisely and clearly, his views 
(much in advance of the practice of the north-east coast) of what 
botn passenger and general accommodation should be. 

Thei*e are one or two other systems, however, which may not 
have come under his notice, and as I think they are worth atten- 
tion, by request, I now give the particulars, to include in your 
discussions upon the original paper. 

I am not one of those who are always eager to compare them- 
selves with the foreigner, to the pi^aise of the latter — we as a rule 
set the example, and he, the foreigner, tries to go ** one better." 
In no country has this been more evident than in Germany. I 
shall show a little further on what they did in their emigrant 
carrying steamers. 

It is interesting to notice first the " expansion of ideas." In 
former years an oblong wooden box, not more than G feet by 2 
feet by 7 or 8 inches, without a lid, was all that was allotted to 
a sleeper, were he tall or short, fat or lean. Then, gradually, it 
was found that 2 feet 2 inches to 2 feet 3 inches was more suit- 
able for width, and a few inches was occasionally added to the 
length, until, at the present time, the berths in the New Pacific 
S. N. Co.'s steamers are all ^^ feet wide, and range from (J feet (i 
inches to 6 feet 9f inches in length. For the P. and O. Co.*s 
steamers their minimum length and width is feet 3 inches by 2 
feet 2 inches inside. In the recent steamers of the Compania Sud 
Americana de Vapores the lower berths are G feet inches to G 
feet 3 inches by 2 feet G inches to '\ feet 3 inches inside width, 
and I could give several other instances of a like chai^acter. All 
these berths are metallic and folding, of the character recom- 
mended by Mr. James. 



270 



DISCt'SSKIX^ACC-OUUUDATIOX IX STKAMSUtPE. 



In the Ihik'h lines to the West Indies they arrange their 
beiths 80 that there is fi-ee breathing space for each passeuffer: 
this is accomplished either by placing one berth fore and aft and 
the other athwartship, tlie foot end only of one being over the 
other, or by having two separate berths in the same level. The 
rooms are large, n-hich allows of an end standard to one or both 
berths : thus the sleepers lie foot below foot or independently with 
open head spaces. There is usually a single berth room in suite 
with the two berth cabin a very convenient anangement (sei- 
[•'iga. 1 and ■>, Plate XXIII.)- 

In one of the lines referred to, from which Fig. 1 (Plate 
XXIII.) is taken, a cot is provided in several of the cabins for a 
child. This cot is fixed in a convenient position on one of the 
bulkheads, and being on the folding principle is out of the way 
when not wanted, 

Fio. 3, 




Disci'ssiox — accommoj)ati()n in steamships. 271 

are of iron, with special white metal lee rails, having a space in 
the centre for ingress and egress, so that the sleeper can lie with 
head at either end. These lee rails fold closely down to the mattress 
for stowage ; therefore when only one person occupies a room 
the upper berth is removed altogether, simply by lifting it out 
of the sockets. These sockets being of the same white metal 
are no disfigurement to the bullvheads. 

Some companies trading to Australia adopt a form of berth 
which enables the rooms to be used as comfoi-table private day 
cabins, where the passengers may retire with their friends of the 
voyage away from the public rooms. In. this case the berths are 
made to revolve and also fold up ; one side is upholstered, com- 
pletely hiding the spring bottom, and on the other side the bed- 
ding is confined by the lee rail secured down upon it; in this 
way, with the lower beHh revolved upholstered side up, and the 
upper berth turned down upholstered side out, there are sofas 
only in evidence. Private whist parties on long voyages find 
this an acquisition. 

The Italian lines, more particularly the Navigazione Genei'ale 
Italiana^ in addition to folding bei-ths, adopt veiy largely one of 
a cot type, with veiy elaborate white metal lee rails on each side 
to keep them free of bulkheads, and they do not stint the width, 
which is overall 2 feet (i inches. 

I give you in Plates XXV., XXVI. and XXVII. some 
up-to-date state-room furnishings. The berths in each are 
metallic, the lee rails and more prominent parts being of white 
metal (known as Xeptune silver). The berths in Plate XXV. aie 
on the folding principle, with reversible lees, and were first fitted 
in an Indian troopship. In Plate XXVI. the berth shown below 
the pK>rt is really a sofa. The bed is the sofa back turned down ; 
it is pivotted to the bulkhead and sofa ann ; and for day use the 
lee rail is folded in the bedding, and w^hen turned up in the 
housing of the shelf all is out of sight except the upholsteiy. 

Mr. James gives it as his opinion that ** berths should be 
entirely of iron or brass with wire mattresses and somew^hat 
wider than usual." All the instances given above are embodi- 
ments of this opinion ; the berths are all metallic and in most 
instances the lee rails are of an exceedingly handsome and 
elaborate character, made of special white metal, having the 
device or badge of the Company incorporated in the design, and 



272 DISCUSSION — ACCOM UODAl'ION I.V STEAMSHTPS. 

in all cases they are either folding bertlis or standing away from 
bulkheads, with good air space all round, securing cleanliness 
and sanitation, which cannot be obtained with the old aystem 
of wood berths. 

On the question of lavatories : here again metal is prefei'able 
to wood, and brass or white metal basins are more durable than 
those of earthenware; but in the construction of these fittings 
there should be no projections internally, or covered in parts 
where scum can be secreted — this is a very important factor — 
and the waste should discharge into a receiver. The latter, suit- 
ably constructed, is in all cases preferable to leading into a main 
drain. Fold-up lavatories, as described by Mr. James, are the 
best, and these should contain the chamber lockers instead of 
having them in a corner of the berth space. 

Whilst the foregoing will show the advance made in accommo- 
dation for cabin passengers, equal, if not greater, strides have been 
made in that for third class or steerage, and in this i-espect Ger- 
many no doubt took a very strong lead, with the result that her 
ships show so favourably in the numbers carried. 

About twelve or fourteen years ago the Hamburg-American 
Line commenced in earnest to comi>ete for this traffic, but they 
hesitated on the point of how far to go in discarding wood for 
iron. They commenced with their steamer "Russia," built at 
Laird's, Birkenhead, to tit up iron berths with wood lee and end 
boards, the prevailing system at the time being wood shelves in 
two tiers divided oft' by wood boards, the better type of accommoda- 
tion being, for want of any more fitting description, a series of 
canvas slings with stretching bars supporting the canvas divi- 
sion. I well remember that the firm I was with at the time had 




DlSCtrSSlOK — ^ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSHIPS. 27B 

prevailing where the effects of mal-de-mer cannot so easily be 
cleaned away ; and now the system is general. 

But here again England actually led the way in the Indian 
troopship " Clive/* but of course this was not an emigrant vessel. 

Continental emigration laws were less stringent at the period 
referred to, but America stepped in with such regulations for 
those clearing from her ports that it became necessary to adopt 
her standard, and so it has gone on — one better each time — until 
at the present moment third class — we do not like to call them 
emigrants — are better catered for than were first class in the 
earlier days of steam. 

Tabular statements have recently been published giving the 
number of passengei*s carried to and from America by the various 
lines. In considering these figures we must go below the sur- 
face. For instance, some of the German vessels are fitted for 
2,500 steerage passengers or more, chiefly in block form arrange- 
ment, and, where divided off, there are 10 or 12 in a compart- 
ment, whereas in the American Red Star, Holland-America and 
some Liverpool Lines the bulk of their third class accommoda- 
tion is in rooms, for 2, 4 and in a room. These rooms are 
formed by patented portable bulkheads, so arranged that only as 
many as are wanted may be erected for each voyage, leaving any 
surplus space clear for cai'go or promenade. This portable cabin 
system is now becoming more general, and soon there will be 
very little open block arrangement in the higher class vessels. 

Portable and folding washstands have been introduced in 
connection with these rooms, the fittings being capable of easy 
stowage in small space, a matter of great consideration from a 
freight earning point of view. 

Of course in any new system it is of primary importance that 
the novelty should be an efficient one, but unfortunately in the 
case of metallic berths they have in a few cases got into dis- 
repute owing to the ever repeated cry of cheap, cheap, cheap, 
inducing people who know nothing of the subject coming for- 
ward to meet this demand. A good berth is always cheap, a 
cheap and inefficient one is always dear, and it therefore behoves 
every one interested to make such enquiries as will ensure his 
obtaining the right .article from the workshop of those who have 
made the subject a specialty. 

Yours faithfully, 

W. L. Hall. 



274 UIBCUSSION — A.CCOUltODATION IN BTEAIfS&IPli. 

PolNTUOrSK Slill'YAED, 

Glasgow, 

March 'Ziith, lyir>. 

]Jkai{ Mr. l)i CKi'iT. 

Tlio " tandem" airau^iikeut of state-i-ooins shewn in one ot 
the illustrations to Mr. -lauies's paper on " Passenger Accommoda- 
tion " bears some resemblance to the plan sent herewith (sei' 
Plate XXVIII.), and which we adopted fourteen years ago. The 
single looms were ukuch appreciated by passengers. 

Yours faithfully, 

Jonx IxcLi.s. 

The discussion wua adjuurued. 




WORKSHOP RECORDS. 275 



WOEKSHOP EECORDS : A REVIEW AND COMPARISON 
OF EXISTING METHODS, WITH SPECIAL REFER- 
ENCE TO THE USE OF CARD8 AND FILES INSTEAD 
OF BOOKS. 



By (4E0RGE PARKER. A.C.A. (A&sociate). 



[Rkad hepore the Instithtion in South Shields on March 218t, 1902.] 



This paper has been compiled to some extent from personal 
experience, but mainly from published sources. The major por- 
tion of the literature on the subject is of American origin, and 
indicates that their methods are much more ingenious and 
scientific than are generally to be found in this country. For the 
benefit of those gentlemen who may wish to pursue the subject 
further than the limits of this paper permits a list of all the 
most important books and papers relating thereto is given in 
Appendix I., page 291. 

Much has been written lately concerning American com- 
petition in every branch of engineering, and many explanations 
have been offered as to how they are able to undersell British 
firms ; but, so far as the writer is aware, their much more universal 
knowledge and appreciation of the benefits acci-uing from a 
thoroughly efficient system of internal organisation has never 
been mentioned in this respect. Yet may not this be an import- 
ant factor in their success ? 

In America ** the principles of the organisation of workshops, 
including methods of ascertaining and keeping costs, etc.," are 
taught at many of their technical colleges, and in addition some 
of their best known firms have published full descriptions of 
their methods of organisation, so that all who cere to read may 
benefit thereby. In Great Britain, however, this subject has 
received but scant attention, little or no attempt being made to 



276 WOBKSHOP BECOKDS, 

teach tie young enf^ineer anjrthing of the commercial aide of his 
profession, and most firms in this country believe in keeping their 
methods of organisation rigidly to themselves. 

This reticence and conservatism on the part of British firms 
is greatly to be deplored, for it is only by being able to make 
comparisons that the best methods can be arrived at. The 
advantages to he gained by making such comparisons far out- 
weigh any personal considerations, and in no caae need involve 
the publication of trade secrets or other matters of a private nature. 

A modern industrial establishment has been aptly compared 
to the human body, and there are many points of resemblance; 
the manager being the brain, the workshop records the nerves, 
the machinery the bones, and the workmen the muscles. The 
bones and muscles are dependent on the brain for the initiation 
of every movement, and in the same manner the employment of 
the machinery and the workmen is initiated by the manager. 
In order that these movements may be properly controlled it is 
necessary that the nervous system should be in proper order, 
therefore it is a matter of paramount importance that there should 
be a thoroughly efficient system of workshop records in use in 
the factory. 

So long as a firm continues to make large profits the need of 
efficient workshop records does not come acutely home, but as soon 
as competition begins to tell, and these profits decrease and per- 
haps disappear altogether, the question naturally arises: How 
and where, if possible, can the cost of production be reduced? 
This rjuestion, a thoroughly efficient system of workshop records 
alone can satisfactorily answer. 

A system of workshop reeonls should have three objective 




woekshop eecords. 277 

Records of Orders for Work to be Done. 

These, so far as the factory is concerned, initiate with the 
manager, who, on receipt of an order from a customer, by the issue 
of production-orders to the different departments, authorises the 
work to be done by each. 

As nearly eveiy firm has a different system of dealing with 
these orders, it is quite impossible to do more than sketch the 
general procedure. The most usual plan is to provide an order 
book, in which every order is entered as received and its con- 
secutive number put opposite, together with any necessary refer- 
ence to the estimate book, tender book or letter book. This book 
is accessible only to the manager and his clerk, no one else being 
allowed to see it, and its precise form will vary with the class of 
work turned out by the factory. The first step necessary for 
putting an order into effect is to give instructions to the head 
draughtsman to prepare or collect the drawings required. This 
should be done in writing, either by letter or by direct entry in 
the drawing office order book. In the drawing office the necessary 
drawings and working-lists are prepared, so as to provide the 
officials having charge of the work with full instructions for ful- 
filling the order, down to the smallest detail. A copy of the work- 
ing-list, which is really a specification of everything required on 
the order, is sent to the manager, to the storekeeper and to each 
foreman who will be employed on the work. The manager has 
his copy written into the order book, where space is provided for 
it, and the progress of the work noted. The storekeeper, on 
receipt of his copy, requisitions the office for all parts, etc., which 
are not in stock, and they are then ordered from outside in the 
usual manner. In addition to the working-list copy, general 
instruction sheets are often issued to the foremen, giving full 
pai'ticulars of the work to be performed and the time in which it 
must be completed. 

The above is briefly a very usual method of procedure, vary- 
ing in detail to suit different classes of manufacture. Most 
managers will agree that it has many shortcomings, yet there are 
many firms much worse off in this respect. 

Where cards are used for the purpose of recording orders the 
procedure Inay be as follows : On receipt of an order from a 
customer it is entered on a card, which is filed in the manager's 



278 WORKSHOP BECORDS. 

office. From this card othor cards called prod ucti or- orders are 
made out, on? for each piece or aerrice which is required to make 
up the order, commencing with the drawings. In the drawing 
office a list of pieces iwiuired to complete the order is made out: 
this list being requii-ed to assist in making out the other pro- 
duction -order cards, which may be of different colours in order 
to facilitate reference. These cards are sent into the shops with 
the drawings and follow the work from department to department, 
having the date of their receipt by and transfer from each depart- 
ment endorsed on them. "Where separate cards are used to order 
each part, they may also I» made to collect the cost, as will he 
described later. The records of orders from the foremen to the 
men really form part of the " Reconls of Labour" and will \ie 
referred to under that heading. The writer is afraid that but a 
faint idea of the procedure under this heading has been given, but 
it is difficult to do more while only dealing with geneml methods. 

l{Ka)RI)S OF Lahove. 

1- — The record of each man's time of arrival at and departure 
from w()rk. 

The ohlest method of getting this information is probably 
by means of the giving (mt and return of the men's time-boartis 
as they pass the time office window on arrival and departure. 
These boards being numbered consecutively, those left in the 
office utter the giile is ehwed denote the men that are al>sent. 
(In leaving work each man hands his Ixiard in at the time office, 
if. being ii fixed ruli'-no board, no pay. This method has been 
in H!4e for the past fifty years or more and is still used by some 
finiis. 




WORKSHOP RECORDS. 279 

In both the '^ board " and " check " systems a time book is 
necessary to record the actual time each man has worked per day. 
This book is ruled with columns for each day of the week, and 
the time entered therein for each section of the day. There are 
various methods of doing this, some preferring to use marks of 
some kind instead of figures. Thus in Great Britain the day is 
usually divided into three sections, in which the working hours 
may vary at different times of the year, but the exact duration 
of which is alwa^'s known to the timekeeper ; then three strokes 
may be used, one for each section of the day, / for time before 
breakfast, \ for time after breakfast and — for time after dinner, 
a complete day being lepresonted by a triangle thus A. Owing, 
however, to the diflSculty of convincing the men in the case of 
dispute, this method is not to be recommended. Where figures 
are used each day column is divided into four sections, the actual 
hours worked being entered therein and the fourth section 
reserved for overtime. 

There are now several time-recording clocks on the market 
which greatly facilitate the keeping of these records, l^y the 
use of one of these clocks the time book and its consequent clerical 
labour is entirely done away with, each man making his own 
record with the aid of the clock, as he arrives at and leaves the 
factory. A list of most of the time-recorders now on the market, 
together with a brief description of their respective capabilities, 
is given in Appendix III., page 29'1 

2. — The record of the allocation of each man's time to the 
proper processes or jobs on which he has been employed. 

There are many different methods of making these records, 
the time-board, with its modifications, being the oldest and the 
one in most general use in this country. In this system each 
man is given a time-board (which may l>e a wood board painted 
white, a slate, a card, or a slip of paper) on which he is supposed 
to record how he has spent his time during the day. This is 
examined and, if correct, signed by the foreman and handed in 
at the time office every night. 

The result is, that, as the majority of men have a great aversion 
to clerical work of every description, they leave the filling in 
of their time until the last moment; consequently the details 
furnished are in most cases little better than guess work. It is 
quite impossible for the foreman to detect errors unless they are 

VOL. xviir.~wo^. 21 



280 WORKSHOP RKCORDS. 

of a veiy glarinfr natuie, in fact the moat he can do is to see that 
the proper jobs are ent^jed on ihe time-board ; thus one job 
often benefits at the expense of another, and heavy losses are 
incurred on future work through unreliable estimates based on 
these figures, or work lost owing to too high a price being quoted. 
These time-boanls are tran8<;ribe<l into a book usually called the 
work book, then, after being agreed with the time book or clock 
records as to total time, are used in making up the wages analysis, 
from whence they are posted to the debit of the different orders 
in the cost ledger. 

There are three distinct systems of using cards for this purpose, 
each of which possesses certain advantages. 

1. — The job order system, in which a separate card la used for 
each job on which a man works. Two examples of job order 
cards are given in Appendix TV. {Plates XXIX. and XXX.). The 
first of these cards is used as follows: On entering the shop in 
the morning each man is furniHhed with a card, i-epresenting 
the job he is busy on or is to proceed with, which he perforates 
at the time of commencing work and hangs in front of him. If 
the foreman wishes to give a man a, second job before the first 
is finished, he fills in the order number and operation to be per- 
formed on a second card, which is hung next under the one in 
use. When a job is finished its card is examined by the fore- 
man, who approves it by signing it, or preferably by punching 
it with a ticket punch. The second card is used in identically 
the same mannc]-, except that the times of commencing and finish- 
ing ail- to be entei-ed in writing either by the man himself or 
by the foreman. If by the foreman, a lime-stamp may be use-l, 
in which case each foreman slumld be provided with one for 




WORKSHOP RKCORBS. 281 

work book or wages analysis. After this the coupons are avail- 
able for comparative cost purposes of every description. 

3. The collective or piece order system, in which a separate 
card is used for each member or piece of work, irrespective of 
the number of operations involved in its completion. In this 
system the card may follow the piece of work, which it repre- 
sents, through the factoiy and have recorded on it the time spent 
in the different processes and operations performed on it ; and in 
addition may be used as the means of transmitting orders as 
described under the heading of " Eecords of Orders for Work 
to be Done.'' The great objection to this system lies in the diffi- 
culty of agreeing the men's gate-time with the time charge<l to 
the different jobs on which they have been engaged during the 
day. This difficulty, however, may be overcome by using advice 
cards and writing up the collective order cards from them. The 
men have then nothing to do with the allocation of their time. 
The foremen are provided with advice cards (an example of which 
is given in Appendix lY., Plate XXIX.), and one is filled up 
every time a man finishes one job and commences another. These 
cards give the time (which may be stamped with a time-stamp) 
and particulars of the job finished and the new one commenced, 
and are forwarded to the job clerk at stated intervals every day. 
The job clerk posts up the collective order cards from them and 
they are then available for agreeing the men's allocated time 
with their gate-time. The collective order cards are filed when 
finished under the heading of the product of which they form a 
part. 

Records of Material. 

Speaking generally there are in all factories raw materials, 
materials in progress, finished parts and assembled or completed 
products. A '" rough store " and ** finished store," it will be 
found, are therefoivi essential to getting accurate records, all 
material starting from the " rough store " and working its way 
to the ** finished store " before being finally issued to the assembl- 
ing room or erecting shop. 

Raw materials are ordered as required through the office and 
are received on arrival by the storekeeper, who is required to make 
an independent record of what he leceives. This record is sent 
up to the office, where it is checked against the invoice and 
original order, A more general system than the above js for the 



282 WORKSHOP RECORDS. 

invoice to be sent to the storekeeper, who is supposed to check it 
off with the material actually received, but this is a very loose 
system, especially as the storekeeper then knows exactly what 
material he has to expect and there is consequently always a 
direct incentive to scamp the checking. Nothing should be given 
out by the storekeeper except on properly authenticated orders, 
such records being kept as will show to whom and on what account 
materials have been issued. 

The most usual method adopted for keeping a i^ecord of raw 
materials is for the storekeepei* to be provided with two books 
named respectively ** stores received " and ** stores issued.'' In 
order to facilitate the checking of the invoices and the posting of 
the stores issued to the different orders two sets of these books are 
often provided for use on alternate days or weeks. 

Raw materials are issued to the men as required on requisition 
orders, signed by the foremen, stating the quantity of material 
required and to what order it is to be charged. Each foreman is 
usually provided with a requisition book made up of alternate 
thick and thin leaves and used with a carbon sheet, so that a copy 
of each requisition always remains for reference. Material 
ordered specially for an order is often charged direct to the order 
in question without putting it through the '' rough store," but 
although this may seem to be a saving in clerical labour it may 
cause a great amount of trouble and worry in order to locate the 
material when it is required. Where there is a '* finished store," 
practically the same procedure should be observed, the finished 
parts being received fiom Ihe shops and issued to the assembling 
room or erecting shop. In cases where there is no ** finished 
store/' finish(»d parts are sent direct into the erecting shop on 
completion, with the result that a great deal of confusion and 
worry is oft-en caused when they come to be assembled. 

The raw materials issued are posted to the debit of the different 
orders in the cost ledger either direct from the stores issued book 
or through the medium of a journal, in which latter case a con- 
siderable amount of clerical labour will bo involved. 

In order that the " rough store " mav be worked with anv 
degree of efficiency it is essential that a stores ledger should be 
kept, in which accounts should be opened for each class or kind 
of material stocked and the receipts and issues posted up from the 
stores received and stores issued books. This of course means 



tVOEKSUOP RECORDS. 288 

a tremendous amouut of clerical labour, but the advantaji^es gained 
will in most cases far outweigh the extra expense incurred. Some 
diiiiculty will be met with in opening this ledger in regard to 
some of the items, such as waste, oil, tallow, etc., but as these 
are only chargeable to establishment charges account, this ditti- 
culty may be overcome by the exercise of a little ingenuity and 
determination. In arranging the store-rooms it will be well to 
remember the old adage, ** a place for eveiything and everything 
in its place,'' and have properly labelled bins and pigeon holes 
provided for storage purposes, for on these the etticiency of the 
store-rooms will to a great extent depend. 

By the use of cards the stores received and issued books may 
be abolished entirely. All material received is recorded on cards, 
which are filed and sent into the office every day, wheie they are 
checked against the orders and the invoices, after which they are 
filed for the use of the stores ledger clerk. This ledger, consist- 
ing of canls filed in a cabinet, is kept in the office on the theoi-y 
that if the storekeeper wants to know what is in his room he 
should look in the proper place and find it. Material is issued 
on receipt of card requisitions from the foremen, these cards also 
being filed and sent into the office every day for the information 
of the stores ledger clerk. The storekeeper, having thus no 
clerical work to perform except on the receipt of material, is able 
to pay much more attention to his ordinary duties. Another 
method is to provide a ** material card cabinet " in the store-room 
and require the storekeeper to enter all issues on their proper 
order card, but this plan cannot be i-ecommended, although it is 
undoubtedly better than using books for the purpose. In some 
cases, as a check on waste and careh^ssness (m the part of the fore- 
men, the storekeeper is piovided with a list of everything re<iuired 
on each order and is required to honour the foremen's demands 
to the extent of this list but no further. Should any material be 
spoiled or lost the foreman must obtain an order from the office 
before the storekeeper will deliver the material. 

No values are inserted on any of these cards at first and the 
stores ledger is kept in quantities only. A card index file is kept 
in the office, showing the fluctuations in price of each commodity, 
a separate card being used for each, and the prices at which they 
are to be charged varied accordingly at stated intervals. This 
makes the cost accounts of much greater value, as market fluctua- 



284 *\oRKSiior kkcueds. 

tioiiM are at once apparent. Ah a check on the accuracy of the 
stores ledger i-ecords the stores ledger clerk is required to send 
to the storekeeper the names of several articles which are in stock, 
n-itii a request for an actual count of each. This is done every day 
so that in the course of a month evei-y stock account is checked at 
least once. 

RkCOHKS (H- EsTAIILISllMtXT OHAH(iK.S. 

Although the keeping of these i-ecords is often deemed a very 
.simple matter, it is in i-eality very difKcult to carry out properly. 
It may be done of course veiy simply hy charging everything, 
which cannot he charged direct to orders, to an account in tlie 
eommeri'ial hooka calletl establishment charges account, hut this 
will afford no information when it is desii-ed to find out when- 
Iheap charges may he reduced. It is only hy splitting estahlish- 
meiit charges up into their composite items that this information 
may he arrived at, and it is in this respect that the practical 
utility of a modern system of workshop records will perhaps he 
most appreciated by manufacturers. In this country as a rule 
veiy little ett'ort is made to subdivide these charges, although 
the " standing order " system ifl fairly well known, while in 
America they are split up into the minutest details, over a hundreil 
subdivisions being quite usual. 

In the standing order system a list is prepared of the differ- 
ent headings under which all work done for the fai'torj' itself is 
to b«' charged, these headings being numbere<I and called stand- 
ing orders, and records made by any of the methods already 
described for customers' orders. There are, however, many other 
items coming under the heailing of establishment charges which 




wokKshop records. '2S6 

the amount which is necessaiy to cover it, or as to the manner 
in which it is to be computed. In this country the usual method 
adopted is to write oft' a certain percentage every year from plant 
and machinery (usually 5 per cent.), from buildings (usually 2^ 
per cent.), and from loose tools (usually 10 per cent.), no attempt 
being made to depreciate any of these individually except in very 
rare instances, although that is a matter of the greatest import- 
ance. Thus it is quite a common occurrence to find, in this 
country, machine tools in use twenty and thii-ty years old, firms 
being loth to part with them because their records don't show that 
their individual values have been written oft'. If a record of each 
machine tool was kept, showing the depreciation off every year, 
firms would be far more willing to get rid of old-fashioned, and 
costly in upkeep, machine tools. 

Individual records of buildings, and machinei*y and plant may 
be kept either in books or on cards, but pi-eferably on cards, as 
dead records can then be at once removed. In the case of many 
small tools a minimum individual value may l>e agreed, and those 
coming under it recorded in groups. An example of a plant 
record card is shown in Appendix lY. (Plate XXX.). 

Loose tools are a very important item, and the American plan 
of providing a tool-room, or branch store, for their reception is 
beginning to be largely adopted in this country. This tool-room 
is provided with suitable racks for storing the tools and with 
grinders, etc., to keep them in working order, and is in charge 
of a skilled workman. Tools should never be issiled to the shops 
without a recoixl of the taker, and for this purpose the check 
system is often used. Each man is provided with five or six bi*ass 
checks stamped with his individual number, one of which is given 
to the tool-room keeper whenever a tool is required, and the tool- 
room keeper places the check in the vacancy left by the tool in 
its rack. The check thus makes the man stand charged with 
the missing tool until it is returned to the tool-room, and the 
man has his check returned therefor. The only objection to this 
plan is that the men are wholly at the mercy of the tool-room 
keeper, who is liable to place the checks in the wrong racks, and 
for this reason cards used as in a library are preferable. As a 
matter of accounting, loose tools are treated in a variety of ways, 
the safest being to write oft' all additions and replacements eveiy 
year, letting the value stand the same from year to year until some 
marked increase or decrease is made. 



286 \VOKKSUOL' bUCOUDS. 

Attvr the total of cstablislimeiit chargee has been ariiveil at, 
it becomes neceasaiy to consider how they are to be taken intu 
account as affecting the coet of the difiei-ent products turned out 
and commenced during the period which they cover. This leaiils 
(o the consideration of the difEereat methods of determining the 
oncost to be borne by the finished and partly finished products. 
In valuing work -in -progress for balance sheet purposes often no 
account is taken of oncost, and although this is undoubtedly an 
error on the safe side, it is nevertheless an enor and may seriously 
injure one year's profits at the expense of another's. Whei-e the 
question of oncost is properly considered and scientifically dealt 
with, thei-e is no reason why it lihanld not be charged to the product 
in an eijuitahle manner at each stage of its manufacture. 

There ai'e many different methods of determining oncost, but 
they all belimg to one or other of three classes. 

J. -Ity a p<'rcentage on direct or productive labour, based on 
past or current records. 

Thia is the method in most general use in this country, although 
owing to its overburdening highly-paid skilled labour and under- 
burdening cheap unskilled labour it gives in many cases far from 
reliable results. This disability may be somewhat minimised by 
adopting a different percentage for each class of work. 

'^. -liy an hour rate based on the average number of hours of 
direct or productive labour. 

This is the metho<l usually adopted in America, and except 
in shops where there is a great diversity in the she. and cost of 
individual toids it will be found to give very reliable results, the 
loss incurred on cheap labour as in the " percentage method '" 
not having to be made gocnl at the expense of work requiring 




IVORKSllOP flECORl)S* 287 

This is far and away* the most scientific method, for it enables 
the machinery used to be taken into account in costing* work, and 
this is a most important advantage, especially now that machinery 
is becoming more and more uspd in every branch of industry. 
Many will object to this method as involving too many complica- 
tions, and except in shops where there are both veiy large and very 
small machines it may hardly repay the trouble of installing it, 
although on the other hand tlie information afforded will be an 
undoubted advantage. Applications of the above methods are 
given in Appendix V., page 29' 5, and it will be obsennnl what a 
ditt'erence there is shewn in the component cost^. 

The Card System. 

Having described applications of cards for various purposes 
a brief description of the origin of the system will not be amiss. 

The card system has been described as a method of recording, 
classifying and indexing facts, figures or names of every descrip- 
tion by means of cards, uniform in size, arranged on edge in 
drawers or trays, according to some defined order, with projecting 
guide cards to facilitate immediate reference. The system 
originated in Boston, Mass., where it was used for the purpose of 
indexing library books and recording whether they were out on 
loan or not. Captain Henry Metcalfe, Ordnance Department, 
U.S.A., was probably the first to use cards entirely for workshop 
record purposes. He devised and introduced a system of card 
records in place of books, while in charge of Frankford arsenal, 
U.S.A., in 1881, and so far as the writer is aware his system is 
still is use. 

Perhaps the greatest advantage which the card system possesseei 
over books lies in the fact that, by making only one record on 
each card, the number of possible combinations is practically 
unlimited, and in addition, except for summaiy purposes, the 
record once made serves a variety of purposes without transcrip- 
tion. Writing of this advantage Captain Metcalfe says : — 
** Generally speaking, the lower in the scale of combination the 
unit is, the easier it is to treat it independently in forming such 
new combinations as may be required. This applies to many 
examples in everyday life. Take, for example, the printer's type, 
divided into single letters, how much better it lends itself to form- 
ing the great variety of words it is intended to multiply and 



288 i\uRKKUor eecoeus. 

preserve than if whole woitls or even their couetituent syllables 
wei-e cast as single pieces like the ideographic characters of the 
Chinese or the hieroglyphic* of the old Kgyptiana " In fact, 
was not the ffPim of Guttenbei^'s invention not that of printing 
only, with which ne and his asaociates are credited, although it 
is as old as the use of the signet ring, but the printing with mov- 
able letters?" This unity of reconi is invaluable for colleclin^ 
and collating details of cost both for summaiy and departmental 
purposes. Take, for example, a steam engine ; each member or 
part has its cost properly inscribed on a can.1 (or series of cards 
according to the exact method adopted) and the total of these 
canla (or series of cards) when collected forms a c'omplete 
descriptive cost of the engine. 

PoI.VTS Tl) HK t'oXSIUKRKn ll.V IXTKOIUClXti A NeW SvSTKM. 

The adoption of more mo<lern methods of organisation anil 
workshop i-ecoril has probably been contemplated by most 
managers during recent years, but the absence of reliable informa- 
tion on the subject, together with the fear that work in the shops 
will be delayed owing to the men not being able to understan<l 
them, has undoubtedly deferred many from procee<ling further 
with the matter. In America tliese difficulties have been over- 
come, even in shops employing men of different nationality. That 
being so, why should not the same thing be done here? 

In designing a system of workshop records it is essential: — 

1. — That all orders, in connection with the expenditure of 
labour or material, should emanate from one central source. 

2. — That all reconls of work dono and expenses incurred under 
these orders should finally converge towards that same central 




WotlKSllOr RECORDS. 289 

Tlie exact methods to be adopted will depend to a large extent 
on the nature of the product turned out, and to some ext-ent, as 
regards the time records, on the system of remunerating labour. 

In working the system its value will, to a large extent, depend 
on the judicious issue of the cards. Thus, if costs are required 
to the smallest detail, separate cards must be used for each piece 
and each operation performed on it, but this is not often required, 
the collective order system genei^ally givii>g all the i-equisite 
information. 

In using the collective order system, which is the most suit- 
able for marine engineers and the heavy trades, a separate card 
is used for each component part of the product. The advantages 
of this are twofold : first, it enables the card to follow the part 
which it represents right through the shops, going t-o each man 
who has work to do on it, and serving the purjx>se of ordering 
everything in connection with it ; second, it gives the cost in 
detail, so that when a similar job comes in, an estimate of cost 
may be made, even though there is some vai-iation in details, by 
means of appropriate deductions and additions, which will be 
much more accurate than mere guess work. 

As an example of the number of uses to which these piece 
order cards may be put, it may be mentioned that the Bickford 
Drill and Tool Company, Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A., who use this 
system, make them serve seven distinct purposes before using 
them for cost-keeping, viz: — *' (1) They furnish the necessary 
authority for the ordering of material, (2) their i*eceipt by the 
general foreman tells him that the piece is in the shop ready to 
be proceeded with, (3) their delivery to departmental foremen 
indicates the order in which the work is to be done, (4) their stay 
in the hands of the departmental foremen shows them exactly 
what work they have ahead, (5) their return to the stock clerk 
authorises him to issue the material to the shop, (6) their appear- 
ance in the drawing office shows that the work has been taken 
out of the stores, and (7) their location in the job clerk's file 
signifiee whether or not the work is actually in progress. On 
receipt of an order the job clerk makes out the i^equisite numlMM* 
of piece order cards from the list furnished by the drawing office. 
These are sent to the stock clerk, who foi^wards those for which 
he has the material in hand to the general foreman and orders* 
the material required to fill those retained." 



200 MUEKSIKll- Uecorus. 

llaviug decided on the methods to be puraued iu I'egai-d to 
diieet expenditure, the method to be adopted for deterniininf? 
oncost rcniaiiis to be tlecidcil on, and method Xo- -i is undoubtedly 
the moat i-eliablc for marine engiaeers, especially where there is 
a large amount of repair work. 

As regards shipbuilders it will be found somewhat more diffi- 
cult to introduce the card system. In fact many nianagers will 
rE^ard the advantages to be gained therefrom as questionable. 
Yet it is uniloubtedly a great advantage to be able to follow the 
actual cost of each section of a ship during its progress, without 
having to wait until the ship's account in the commercial bookH 
bus been dissecte*! and the detaile<l cost taken out. This the 
card system will admit of being done, for by its use tbe I'ecortls 
may be made as tbe work progresses, tbe coat of each section of 
tbe ship being shown on a card (or series of cards), which, being 
filed together, represent, the total cost of the ship. Opinions 
diffei' as to the mode of determining oncost to be adopted by ship- 
builders, but methoil Xo. 1 for all purely yanl charges, uupplo- 
inented by a rate in proportion to the tonnage or the cubiv 
niimbers of the ships turned o»it, will give reliable results. In 
addition to this tbe coals used may be kept separate! and charged 
in proportion to the weight of steel or iron worke<l into the ships. 
Methods Xo. 2 or ■'! are (juite unworkable in a shipyard, as tbe 
majority of the men are on piece. 

In conclusion the writer ventures to hope that this paper may 
prove of interest to the Institution and l>e the forerunner of maiiy 
othei-s on kindred subjects, for it is to this biuncb that attention 
will be most needed iu dealing with foreign competition. The 
writer wouhl alsci like to suggest that this Institution should 




WORKSHOP RECORDS. 291 

APPENDIX I. 



LIST OF BOOKS AND PAPERS RELATIN(i TO THE SUBJECT. 

ItOOKS. 

YEAR. 

** Factory Accounts.*' Third edition. By E. Garcke and J. M. Fells ... 1889 

** Engineering Estimates and Coat Accounts." By F. (I. Burton 1896 

'* Engineering Elstimates, Costs, and Accounts." Secon<l edition. By 

A Works' Manager 1896 

"The Commercial Organisation of Factories." By J. Slater Lewis 1896 

"The Commercial Management of Engineering Works." By F. G. Burton 1899 

"The Management of Engineering Workshops." By A. H. Barker ... 1899 

"The Cost of Manufactures and the Administration of Workshops.'' By 

Captain H. Metcalfe, U.S.A. ... 1900 

" The Complete Cost Keeper. " By H. L. Arnold 1900 

PAPERS. 

The IVansactions of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers : - 

" The Nomenclature of Machine Details." By Oberlin Smith 1881 

" The Shop-order System of Accounts." By Captain H. Metcalfe ... 1886 
" A Short Way to Keep Time and Cost." By Henry Leon Binsse 1888 

" Estimating the Cost of Foundry Work." By George L. Fowler . 1888 

" An Accurate Cost-keeping System." By H. M. Norris 1897 

The Engineering Magazine : — 

" Modern Machine Shop Economics." Six papers. By H. L. Arnold 1893 
*' Cost-keeping in Machine Shop and Foundry." Four papers. By 

H. Roland ^... 1897 

" Effective Systems of Finding and Keeping Shop Costs." Eight 

papers. By H. Roland 1S98 

"A Simple and Effective System of Shop Cost -keeping." By 

H. M. Norris 1898 

"Machine Shop Management in Europe and America." Eight 

papers. By H. F. L. Orcutt IS99 

"Shop Cost-keeping and (Jeneral Expense." Three papers. By 

H. M. Norris 1899 

** Works' Management for the Maximum of Production. " Four papers. 

By J. Slater Lewis .. 1899 

"The Commercial Organimtion of the Machine Shop.'' Six papers. 

By Hugo Diemer 1900 

"Cost-keeping: A Subject of Fundamental Importance." By 

J. N. Gunn 1901 

"The Proper Distribution of Establishment Charges." Six papers. 

By A. H. Church 1901 

Nortli-East Coast Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders: — 

" On Works' Organisation." By T. Westgarth 1898 

"Shop and General Establishment Charges in Engineering Works and 

their relation to Costs and Estimates." By W. E. Co wens ... 1898 
" Some Remarks on the Commercial Organisation of Shipyards." By 

Walter Scott 1901 

The Institation of Shipbuilders and Engineers in Scotland : - 

" Workshop Administration. " By David Cowan IIKH) 



292 



IVORKSHOP HKC<IEDS, 
in of Workshops, with '■pecial R«ferencbtoOnvoat." 



"ThuAdtiuiitstL'a 

By U«vi<I Cowai 
The International Time-Reooriiing Coiii|>aDy : — 

" How to Do It : The Rochester Card System." By \V. S. Rogers ... IftOO 
The American Machinist : - 

"Cost-keeping at the Chicago Worlts of Fraaer & Chttlmera." Two 

Papers. By J. A. Thoinaa 1000 

"The Principles of Cost Aeconnting." Two papers. By F. A. Hatsey l9iH 
The Institution of Junior Knginaera ; — 

"The Management o[ Bngineering Workshops." Six papers. By 

A. H. Barker 1901 

The International Kngineering Congress, Glasgow : 

" Workshop Methoils." By W. Weir and J. R. Richmond 1901 

"A Premium Kysbem oE Remunerating Labour. " By James R*) wan ... 1901 
The ShettieW Incorporated Society of Chartered Accountants : — 

"The Cost Accounts of an Engineer and Iron founder." By J. W. 

Beat, F.C.A. 1901 



APPF,NDIX II. 



/'. 



DKFINITIONS OF TKRMS. 

■1 -wN. -Property of every description. 

Ilnliisirr Shri-l.- A summary or statement showing a lirm's tSnanoiat position at a 
given datp. 

''ommt-rTlii/ Ilimt'. The books relating to the oflfioe accounting, such as the 
ledger, journal, and cash book ; as distinguished from the factory books. 

"ml (./' /'nul'ii-linii. -The total ex|)enditiire inuurreil in the production of a com- 
modity. This term is distinguished from |>rime cost in that the latter l«rin 
does not cover the wh'ilc c<ist iif production. 
■rinliiiii. The falling olT in I'alue of machinery, plant. buiUUngs, loose tools, 

ry Arrititnliii;/. The systematic ri'coril of itll transactinns incidenlal ti> 

manufacture. 

Y)' or K'rinUI'Jtmriil t'/itinj--. - The expenditure incidental to maintaining an 

industrial establish nieut in a proper state of eOicicncy, and which cannot be 

ilirectly chai^cil to any particular process or oriler. 




WORKSHOP RECORDS. 293 



APPENDIX III. 



LIST OF TIME-RECORDINd CLOCKS, Etc. 

The Rochester Card Recorder. — This clock records on cards, each man being 
provided with a card which he places in a slot in the clock on arrival at, and 
departure from, work, and the time is printed on the card by pushing down 
a lever. The same procedure is observed in dealing with the cost cards, the 
men printing their time of commencing and finishing each job by the aid of 
the clock. 

The Bnndy Key Recorder. — This clock records on a strip of paper inside of the clock. 
Each employee is provided with a key, which is inserted in the clock on 
arrival at and departure from work. The objection to this system is that the 
records are in the order in which they are made and consequently awkward 
for reference. 

The ^^ Detj'^ Time Reginter. — This clock is provided with a dial numbered round 
its circumference and a movable pointer in the centre. The men on arrival 
at, and departure from, work move the pointer round to their distinctive 
numbers and press, and the clock prints the time on a strip inside. 

The Autograph. — This clock records on a strip of paper inside on pressing a lever. 
Each employee pulls down the lever, which opens a slide disclosing the paper 
strip, signs his name, and the clock prints the time opposite. 

The Dial Recorder. —This clock is similar to the **Dey," the records being 
made on a circular piece of paper. 

7 he SimjJex Time Recorder, This clock records on paper strips inside and is 
provided with numbered buttons, which, on being pressed, perforate tlie 
paper strip, and thus record the time. 

The Stockall Time Recorder. —This clock is similar in many respects to the Rochester 
described above, and it is claimed as an advantage that the card, when placed 
in the slot for recording, disappears out of tlie sight and control of the 
workman. 

The Standard Time SfamjK— This stamp is provided with clock mechanism and it 
prints the date and time of day. It is chiefly for tlie use of foremen in 
stamping the job tickets. 



APPENDIX IV. {see Plates XXIX. and XXX.). 



APPENDIX V. 



EXAMPLES OF THE THREE METHODS OF DKTERMININO ONCOST. 

A firm of engineers turn out, during the year, work costing £8,320, whiirh 
they dispose of for £10,000, leaving a proHt of £1,680. 

This output is made up of four contracts as follows : -No. 1 for £1,600, No. 2 
for £1,500, No. 3 for £2,400, and No. 4 for £4,500 ; total, £10,000. The costs of 
these contracts in material and labour are as follows ; — 



WtfttKSHOP RECORDS. 



CONTEAliT 

Material 

Uboar 


No. 1. 

... ^ 'o 4 

,., .-*o 


Contract 
Material ... .. 
Labour 

Prime Cost .. 

CONTBACT 

Material 

Labour 

Prime Cost ... 


No. 2. 

... 600 6 b 
... 4O0 


Prime Cogt ... 


£1,000 


£1,000 


CONTRACT 

Material 

Lftboar 


No. 3. 

... ^ % "6 

,. 860 


No. 4. 

£ > .1. 
..1,000 
...1.120 


Prime Cost .. 


£1.320 


£2,120 



The establiahment charges amount to £2,880, and on referenoe to the com- 
parative statement (page '293} it will be obiierveil that this is equal to: — By the 
(lerceiitage method, 100 per cent, on direct labour ; by the hour -rate method, 8cl. 
\ier hour of direct labour ; and by the machine-rate and overhead-rate methoil. Is. 
]ier hour for heavy machines, 6d. per hour for light machines, .'hi. per hour fcr 
hand work, and Id. per hour overhead rate (assamlng of oourse that there are 
only two classes of machines). Applying these factors, the following reanlti uill 
be sliovin :— 





^ 


o.™., 


Tow Cert 


PAm. PruBl 




Method No. 1. 

Contract 1 

Contract 2 . 
Contract S 
Contract 1 .. 


£ 

1,000 
1,000 
1,330 
2,120 


£ s. d. 
500 
4U0 
860 
1,120 


£ s. d. 
1,500 
1,400 
2,180 
3,240 


£ £ e. d. 
1,600 100 n 
1,500 100 
3.400 220 (1 
4.S03 1.260 




Totals 


5,440 

1,000 
1,000 
1,320 
2.120 


2,S80 

503 6 8 
44e 13 4 

NiO 
1,110 


8,320 


lO.OOri I.GSO 




MethwlNo. 2. 

Contract I ... 

CoutriLCt2 ... 

1 l^ontraotS 

■ Contract 4 


1.503 6 H 
1.446 [3 4 
■2.140 

3,2.10 I' 


1,600 90 13 4 
1,600 fi3 6 M 
2,100 260 
4,500 1,270 

10.000 1.880 




Totals 


5,440 


2,880 8,320 














j^H 



WORKSHOP HECOBDS. 



I l=s 



I 'sisi 



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ll 



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«l 11k 



«l ills 



i illl 



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u 



-i lis 



llll 



illl 



i lis 

» ■ -J ' " 

I , ill 1 1 

111 == ^ 



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I ilii " 






11^ 



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L 3 3 
Us 'I 



PROCEEDINGS. 297 



NORTH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINP^ERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902. 



PROCEEDINGS. 



SIXTH GENERAL MEETING OF THE SESSION, HELD IN THE 
LECTURE HALL OF THE SUNDERLAND LITERARY SOCIETY, 
FAWCETT STREET, SUNDERLAND, ON FRIDAY EVENING, 
APRIL 18th, 1902. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J.P., President, in the Chair. 



The SEcaETARY read the minutes of the previous meeting, 
held in South Shields on March 21st, 1902, which were approved 
by the members present and signed by the Chairaian. 

The ballot for new members having been taken, the President 
appointed Mr. G. 1). Wear and Mr. Hugo MacColl to examine 
the voting papers, and the following gentlemen were declared 
elected : — 

MEMBERS. 

Coninck, Gastin de, N.A. Student, 2, SummerhiU East, Sunderland. 

Liitley Frank, Electrical Engineer, 31, Westgate Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

ASSOCIATE. 
Gore, Thomas Hodgekin, Steamahip Manager, 52, Queen's Square, Bristol. 



398 PBOGBSDtNGB. 

NOMINATIOXS FOR COUNCIL. 

The PHKsiDKKr announced that in accordance with Article X. 
of the ConBtitutton, the following gentlemen would retire from 
(he (.'ouncil :- - 

President — Mr. Henry Withy (not eligible for re-election). 
V iee-Preniileiits —"iir. G. H. Baines, Mr. John Tweedy, and 

Col. P. WattB (eligible for re-election). 
71m. Treiifiirer- Mr. G. E. Macarthy (eligible for re-elec- 
tion. 
OriUnnry Members of the Council — Messrs. W, C. Borrow- 
inan, E. H. Craggs, Alfred Harrison, Andrew Laing, 
David Myles (not eligible for re-election as Councilmen). 
In accordance with Itye-Law 11, the President, on behalf of 
the Council, nominated the following gentlemen to be balloted 
for to till the vacancies, and intimated that members could add 
to the list: — 

President—iir. John Tweedy (Xeptune Works, Walker). 
Vire-Presideiits—Mr. 0. H. Baines, Mr. W. C. Borrowman, 
Mr. E. H. CiaggB, and Mr. Alfred Harrison (three to be 
elected). 
Hoi>. Treasurer— TAt. G. E. Macarthy. 

Oriliniiry Memhers iif the ('ouncil— ilr. John Allan, Mr, 
George Clark, Mr, Edwin Griffith, Mr. Geor^ Jones, 
Mr. .1. H. Perrett, Mr. J. L, Twaildell (five to be elected). 

Mr. (j. 7). Wkih nominated Mr. 1). Myles as a Vice-President. 




DISCUSSION — ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSIJIPS. 299 



RESUMED DISCUSSIOX OX MR. M. C. JAMES'S PAPER 
ON "PASSENGER ACCOMMODATION IN STEAM- 
SHIPS." 

The Secretary said —At our last meeting, I submitted a 
communication from Mr. W. L. Hall, of Birmingham, on this 
subject. Since then Mr. Hall has sent me a number of drawings 
of arrangements with regard to state-rooms, etc., in ships, which 
I have added to his communication. Mr. Hall has taken a great 
deal of pains, one way and another, to give us what he knows 
about the matter, and he has also written me to the effect that he 
is in communication with shipbuilders on the continent with the 
hope of getting more drawings from them on the subject. These 
will enhance the value of the paper that has been put before 
us by Mr. James. 

Mr. James said — I must first of all tender my thanks to our 
esteemed President for his explanatory statement regarding the 
statistics he quoted in his post-prandial remarks made at New- 
castle in January last. The figures as they originally appeared 
in the daily press were somewhat misleading, and tended to 
cause one to draw erroneous deductions from them. By the 
courtesy of Messrs. Ismay, Imrie & Co., I have been put in 
possession of very complete analyses of the Atlantic passenger 
traffic. These tables by permission of the Council will be 
embodied in the Transactions* and they will be found well 
worth careful study. They go to show that the preponder- 
ance in numbers of the steerage passengei-s carried by the Geiman 
steamers is due to the heavy emigration consequent on conscrip- 
tion, and also to the geographical position of the German lines. 
I am afraid I must plead my somewhat timeworn experience of 
wedlock as my excuse for having forgotten to refer to the bridal 
chambers which are so popular and so frequently patronised on 
the modem liners. In this connection I also neglected to men- 
tion that centuries ago old Archimedes thoughtfully provided 
on that marvellous ship of his a very elegant room for Venus. 

* See pftgee 302, 303 and 304. 



300 DliCLSSlOX ACCOMMODATION IN' STEAMSHIPS. 

Mr. De Hut^ett's remarks are very interesting, and they ai'e 
of special value on account of hia intimate knowledge of the 
subject. I am sony that I aroused his patriotic ire by the use 
of the word " neglect." I certainly never intended it to apply 
to all British Passenger Steamship Companies- The White Star 
Line, for instance, is far and away ahead of any other passenger 
line in the Atlantic passenger trade, and is Immensely and 
desei"vedly popular even with the hypercritical American voyager. 

I quite concur with Mr. De Rusett on his opinion that it is 
very desirable for naval architects to get experience on board 
ship, for they aie then better able to justly appreciate the im- 
portance of what are apt to appear superficially as trivial and 
unimportant details. 

The double coaming described by Mr. Chisholm is a most 
ingenious arrangement for getting light and air to inner cabins, 
but in practice it is found that ports in skid skylights are never 
so satisfactory either for atfoitling light or ventilation as ports 
fitted on the ship's siile. 

Mr. ('. W. Cairns has partly missed the point of my strictures 
on the tendency to conservation displayed by some British lines; 
it was not necessary for me to take my cue from pressmen- - 
who, by the way, generally get hopelessly at sea when dealing 
with maritime matters my opinions were formed, rightly or 
wrongly, liy intei-course with ocean travellers and actual experi- 
ences of my own. I had no intention to cast any slur on the 
ability of the laeii who design and build British passenger ships. 
They wci-e the pioneers, and as such have much to be proud of, 
hut unfortunately they rarely have a free hand in arranging 
cabin accommudatioii or fittings, each shipping company having 




DISCUSSION' ACCOM.MODATION IX STEAMSHIPS. 301 

tions of the special berth arrangements to which he refers are 
most instructive, and will form a useful addition to our Trans- 
actions, . Mr. Hall has had exceptional opportunities of noting 
the changes and improvements effected in passenger accommoda- 
tion, and I observe with much satisfaction that he sustains my 
complaint as to certain British Lines having been slow moving 
in the matter. 

In support of my statement respecting the progressive policy 
of the German Lines, I cannot do better than (^uote the follow- 
ing extract from an article which appeared only this week in the 
Shipping Gazette. Summing up a review of the recently pub- 
lished Annual Report of the Xorth German Lloyds, it goes on 
to say: — 

" Equally does it suggest that the CJermans intend to be second to none in 
the contest for ocean supremacy. The Norddeutscher Lloyd has adopted wireless 
telegraphy, and is making further experiments with German systems of the same 
means of communication. The Hamburg- America Company has made extensive 
experiments with oil fuel, which have proved satisfactory from a technical stand- 
point, but less so from a financial aspect. Both companies meantime are taking 
steps to assure for themselves independent coal supplies. The Norddeutscher 
Company reports a series of interesting experiments in towage, which have led to 
material alterations in the shape of hulls, and have given new ideas even to the 
Imperial Navy. Contemporaneously with these excursions into the field of naval 
architecture, the company's workshops at Bremen and Bremerhaven have been 
enlarged and re-organised, new m{U3hine tools introduced, and the latest American 
notions in the shape of factory installation adopted. The energy of the Teutons 
is, in a word, surprising. Much of it is doubtless due to the fact that, whether in 
shipowning or shipbuilding, they are less hampered by tradition than ourselves." 

The sketch sent by Dr. Inglis shows a similar arrangement 
to that described by Mr. De Rusett, and it is interesting to note 
that it was fitted so long as 14 years ago. 

In conclusion I beg to thank all those gentlemen who have 
been good enough to come foi^w-ard with comments or communi- 
cations on my paper, and I sincerely hope it has served the pur- 
pose for which it was written, namely, to open up this important 
subject, for that full consideration and criticism which so many 
members of this Institute are so well able to bestow upon it. 

The Peesident said — I am sure the meeting will wish me to 
propose that a most hearty vote of thanks be given to Mr. James 
for his paper. It has been a very interesting paper, and the dis- 
cussion also has been interesting. 

The proposition was carried by acclamation. 



—ACCOUUODATION' IX STEAU8H1FS. 



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DISCUSSION ACCOMMODATION IN STEAMSHIPS. 



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UlSCirSSIOX— ACCPMMODATION IX STEAUSHIPS 




DlSCrsSIOX WORKSHOP EECORDS. SO') 



DISCUSSION OX MR. GEORGE PARKERS PAPER OX 

" WORKSHOP rp:cords. 



:i '> 



Mr. Hugo MacColl said — I think we are much indebted to 
Mr. Parker for bringing this subject before us. It is a subject 
of great interest to all engaged in engineering manufacture. In 
one of his remarks, Mr. Parker says that we English engineers 
are rather reticent in giving our experience and disclosing our 
methods of costing, therefore if my remarks appear egotistical 
my excuse is that they are made with the object of combating 
this statement. The most efficient method of costing must vary 
in different establishments, according to the size of the works 
and the nature of the manufacture carried on. I regret that 
Mr. Parker has given us no idea as to cost of costing under the 
different systems he has put before us. 

In the little establishment with which I am connected the cost 
of costing comes out at less than one-half per cent, of the value of 
the material and wages dealt with, including the distribution of 
stores and the allocation of wages, materials and stores to what- 
ever they have to be charged to. I should like to know 
how the cost of costing under those more scientific methods Mr. 
Parker advocates works out in comparison with the figure I 
have given. I may say that to some extent I am still a disciple 
of the old time-board system, and I think it will require to be 
clearly proved that more complicated methods are better before 
they will be generally adopted. As I already remarked each 
establishment has its own special requirements, but I know that 
costing is a thing that is carried too far in many workshops, that 
is to say, there is too much money wasted upon it. It is neces- 
sary to f^et the accurate costs of certain details for estimating, 
but average results are more reliable for this purpose than the 
cost of many separate items. 

One of the methods I have adopted to reduce costs is to do 
away with the half -penny in all accounts. Where wages are 
over a half-penny the men get the penny, and where they are 
under the half -penny they do not get it. Another system I 
introduced was in regard to the method of keeping the time 



306 DISCUSSlOX — WOBKSHOP BECOBDS. 

book. I have before me a sheet of the book we use which we- 
had to get up specially for ourBclveB. There is one book of tbia 
kind used each week. There is a space for each man, givinf? 
his name, board number, and hie occupation, then the hours he 
works in each day, the rate in another column, and the total 
wages paid per week. There are columns for each particular 
contract under which the men are working, and the amount 
allocated to different jobs must agree with the total that is paid 
to any man. Then the columns for each particular contract are 
totalled down, carried forward to the next page, and in the end 
we Iiave a statement shewing so much wages paid and the 
amount chargeable to each contract or repair. From these 
weekly statements costs are grouped together once a month and 
carried to the proper account in the ledger. The material ia 
dealt with in an exactly similar manner, a statement shews the 
materials paid for each month and the contracts to which they 
are chai^eable. All material is in this way chained directly to 
the contract for which it is ordered, with the exception of such 
material as is chargeable to general stores which are divided 
under different sections according to certain classiScations. 
Materials are charged to these sections, and fr^a- -these are 
charged by the storeman to particular contracts on orders given 
by the foreman in exchange for these stores when issued to 
the shops. 

The working out of the wage cost involved many calculations 
of the value of so many hours at different rates per week, to be 
charged to the different work in progress. 

I was unable to find a satisfactoi? ready reckoner for this 
purpose, and we had to make one. The difficulty we experienced 
i-ith the ready reckoners in the iiiai-l;et waa thai aboi 




DISCISSION — WORKSHOP RECORDS. 307 

tut with a little practice even for our cumbrous system it is 
exceedingly useful. I do not wish to condemn a system I know 
very little about, but one has one's own ideas, and I should like 
to know where the system of sending round tickets with each 
piece of work is adopted, how often these tickets go astray and 
are lost. I should think frequently. I have often had great 
assistance from foremen making suggestions as to improved 
methods and appliances by which costs can be reduced, and 
would much rather encourage foremen to use their brains in 
that direction, than to have them running all over the place 
punching tickets like a tramcar conductor. 

Another theory which I take objection to is contained in the 
statement that '^ so long as a firm continues to make large profits 
the need of efficient workshop records does not come acutely 
home ; " wherever there is a sharp manager he will always be on 
the look-out to reduce his costs even in good times. I do not see 
why a man must be forced to do so. He should be constantly 
alive to the advantages of, and constantly looking for, methods 
by which savings can be made. As a works manager, I have 
often discovered methods which have saved hundreds of pounds, 
without even referring to cost sheets at all. Although differing 
from some of the statements in the paper, I feel that great credit 
is due to Mr. Parker for the manner in which he has placed this 
subject before us, and I hope a good discussion will take place 
upon it. 

Mr Henry Weatiierall said — I would like to say that I 
welcome the introduction of this subject by one who is, like 
myself, not an engineer, because clerical men are usually timid 
in entering the arena of discussion among practical engineers, 
but Mr. Parker having broken the ice, we can, without seeming 
•egotistical, take part in this discussion. I have been connecteil 
with Richardsons, Westgarth & Co., Ltd., of Hartlepool, for 
thirty-four years. During that period I have gone through every 
deparbnent, and gained some experience in the taking of time 
from workmen. There is no doubt the time-board system is 
bad. We have twice tried the system of sending a man round 
the works each day to take the time from the men. Many 
years ago we tried the experiment in the lathe shop, and found 
it worked well. We are now working a similar system in 



SOS DlSCrSSIOX — -WORKSHOP EECOEDS, 

tlie iron fnumliy, and think it is very good. ^Ve have 
(ibtatiifd most accurate data for coats in this way. I think 
the card system niiffht work in a small place; but in a place 
like oui'9, with sorapthing like 1,000 different jobs every week, 
if these cards should go fi-oni one department to another, as has 
been suRKeBted, what would they he like? Take a small notf 
that may have Ut be sent up to any of the departments, for aa 
answer, the answer is generally scribbled on the same piece of 
paper, and when it comes back you can scarcely read it for 
grease and dirt. AVhat would be the state of a card going 
throiigli every department' The gentleman who has just spoken 
has hit upon the weakness of the caixl system as far as it aiEects 
the foremen. It seems to me it would place too much clerical 
labour upon them. Our manager has always been trying to 
reduce the cleiical work of the foremen. Speaking of time- 
rec<ifding clocks, we have tried one for the general and drawing 
ufHce, and it works well, but it is of no assistance in the alloca- 
tion of time. I believe the day will come when clocks will be 
introiiuced into eveiy shop. Speaking of cards Mr. Parker said, 
" In tliis system the card may follow the piece which it represents 
throu);li the factory, and have recorded on it the time spent in 
the (lift'prent processes and operations performed upon it." I am 
afraid when it gut hack into the office there would be little to 
Im' seen on it. We. like the gentleman who had just spoken, 
founil that the calculators placed upon the market to calculate 
the men's time when the 6^ hours was introduced were veiy 
cumljpfsome and slow. I, however, made a calculator myself, 
and we liave used it ever since. We find it of considerable 
a.Hsistance. and I am now putting it on the market. I feel ver;v" 




DlSCrSSIOX — ^\VORKSHOP RECORDS. 30^ 

worked in the shops by a draughtsman and a staff of apprentices, 
and as ihe system is only on trial, I cannot venture an opinion 
upon it yet, but believe it is working satisfactorily. 

The President said — I do not propose to close the discussion 
on this paper to-night. One of our membera, who is an engine- 
Duilder on the Clyde, and who does a good deal in the way of 
the card system, has expressed his intention of speaking, and 
would have been here to-night, but has met with an accident. 
He says be hopes to be at the meeting on the 9th of May, and 
therefore I will not close the discussion, but leave it open in the 
hope that he may be able to come. You may i^emember his 
partner, Mr. Thomson, spoke here in this room on the paper 
dealing with the speed of tools. 

The discussion stood adjourned. 



AIDS TO WORKSHOP COST-KBBPING. 311 



CO-OPERATION AND MECHANICAL AIDS TO WORK- 

SHOP COST-KEEPING. 



By R. p. link. 



[Read before the Institution in Sundert-and, on April 18th, 1902.] 



How to obtain the co-operation, of the workpeople has been 
at all times a matter of paramount interest to employers, becaiise 
it is the harmonious working of employer and employee that 
engenders the atmosphere of confidence, which ultimately leads 
to success by assisting the iniroduction of notions and methods 
and machines which would otherwise be very frequently welcomed 
only by signs of dissatisfaction, obstinacy, and in some cases by 
open rupture. Therefore it behoves every employer to call into 
existence that feeling of good fellowship which should exist 
between master and man, whereby both receive something for 
which they have been striving, and which will be advantageous 
to each. 

How to make a start, or go about the work is a puzzle. Many 
managers lack experience, or have not the time to grapple with 
the subject in a successful manner. This may be due to the fact 
that industrial conditions are constantlj^ changing. The employer 
was to be found working with his men at one stage of industrial 
history. Growth of business has been such thai to-daj^ the 
employees in large concerns seldom if ever come into direct rela- 
tions with the responsible head, and an intermediary has long 
since become essential. This intermediary, originated by the 
huge growth of our present day works and mills, has assumed 
various names and guises. 

In small concerns the mediation is personal — it takes the 
shape of a foreman or manager, but in larger concerns, it is repre- 
sented by a system — a whole set of controlling factors whose efforts 
all tend to the same ends, viz., the better management of the 
business, a close record of what is actually being done, and a sharp 
look-out for possible economies and improvements. 

TOL. XVnL-1909. '^^ 



312 AIDS TO W0KK8H0P C08T-KBBPIHQ. 

The widespread inteiest that masters axe evincing in this 
question has lead to the introduction of improvemente whereby 
the condition of the workman or workwoman is brought undei- 
more refining influences. But thouirh it is quite an easy matter 
for business men to take the initiative and give to their employees 
opportunities for bettering their moral and social conditions, it 
ia not so easy to obtain in return co-operation of the particular kind 
required for the management and progress of the business. 

This probably may be due to two causes — lack of time on the 
part of the employer to properly organize hia works, or possibly, 
a lack of knowledge as to how to go about it. 

If such a movement is to grow and become of lasting benefit, 
it must ha^e elements of interest (o the employer as well as to the 
workman. This is the great and difficult problem that faces 
every employer who wishes to improve the condition of his hands, 
not only during the time they arc under control, but so that the 
germ thus planted may at the same time create an interest on the 
part of the employee that will be considered, and deeply worked 
out, and thought over by the latter — a process of evolution which 
will tend to make an all-round improvement in his position. The 
solution cannot be found by making a few employees concessions 
of the more pleasing and interesting kind, such as libraries and 
mutual improvement societies, and letting it rest there. Some- 
thing of a more practical nature is necessary, wherebj' the work- 
man is induced not only to give his best endeavours to his master, 
but by so doing create for himself a distinction which will bring 
liim lo the front. To obtain this result I woidd suggest to the 
business man who is coiitctiiplating doing something for the 
iiihistrial belteniient of his einidoyees, that he should approach 




Ait)8 TO WORKSHOP COST-KEEPING. 313 

betteiment of conditions and opportunities for advancement in 
the way of greater production, but mainly in the co-operation 
which will be offered by the employee in the direction of providing 
the necessary record of what is actually going on. Therefore 
the relations in each case are the same, l^oth combinations — man 
and food, and betterment and the introduction of new methods — 
work for the same object, force, energy and knowledge. 

How to obtain accurate data upon which to base prime cost 
calculations has always been a burning question. The strenuoiis- 
ness of present day competition has rendered it more than ever 
imperative that an exact account of the cost of labour should be 
kept, as it is only by strict attention to minute details of the cost of 
production that economies in construction can be effected and 
profits increased. 

All systems of shop cost- keeping have for their ultimate object 
the placing of the manufacturer in the position (1) of being able 
to fix his price on the article manufactured : and (2) of being 
able to see in what direction savings and economies can be effected. 
Every establishment engaged in manufacture must therefore have 
some system or method of keeping shop costs. The methods at 
present in use are for the greater part imperfect, and whilst fur- 
nishing sufficient data on which to roughly base selling prices, they 
do not go far enough in the direction of giving details. In other 
words, they do not particularize, and thus do not enable the manu- 
facturer to determine the processes or parts in which saving may 
be effected. This particularizing is the essence of the ** card 
system " of shop cost-keeping, and is the argument which will 
appeal most to intelligent managers or manufacturing concerns. 
A well-thought-out and elaborated system of shop cost-keeping 
will not only eft*ect a large saving, but will, by its accuracy, enable 
the concern using it to estimate with such certainty, that loss on 
tenders and contracts will be next to impossible. The first 
essential in producing a system of shop cost-keeping is that it 
should furnish an accurate return of the time taken by anv worker 
or gang of workers to produce any given article, and when this is 
realized the details can be worked out with comparative ease. 

The general plan or idea of all card systems of shop cost-keep- 
ing is the same, the variations depend entirely upon the conditions 
obtaining in the factory to be equipped. 

The past three years have shown us that it is America and 



SU AIDS TO WORKSHOP COeT-KBEritlfl. 

Germany which will for tlie future bs our rivals and competitors 
for the world's trade, therefore it behoves us to coasider the 
mothods in vogue in their most successful industries, tliat we 
may. pprchance, find amongst them improvements and advances 
upon our own. It will be admitted that America's success in the 
enffiiiPLTing and allied trades is largely if not wholly due to the 
existence of the standardizing system of manufacture which 
obtains there. This will be the more readily understood and 
allowed when we consider how much this is the day of the 
specialist. In all walks of life men are aiming to do one thing 
well, rather than many ihings fairly— the physician, the surgeon, 
the aurist, Ihe oculist are now directing their energies towanls 
distinction in one branch of their respective professions. 
American engineers have realised this to the full, and by confin- 
ing themselvcB to the manufacture or construction of one type of 
tool or engine hare brought their methods to a high state of 
efficiency. 

I do not propose to discuss the question of the relative values 
of American and British manufactures, but merely to draw atten- 
tion to evidencpB of success of American methods and to try to 
discover liow such success has been gained. It is a sine qua noji 
to successful trading that accurate and exact returns of the actual 
cost of any sjwoific article in material, establishment charges and 
labour should be available, and such returns should furnish the 
minutest details of the cost of performing any operation on any 
part of any article. 

It has been my endeavour therefore to find if it is possible 
to bring before you any practical system of shop cost-keeping 
which will furnish all the data I have alluded to, I may here say 




AIDS TO WORKSHOP C0ST-KEl5PlNQ. 316 

These machines when used in combination with one another 
give such positive results, with such accuracy, that prime cost, 
instead of being the bane of the employer's existence, becomes a 
pleasure, because he learns that when he has such infallible 
workers, mistakes and errors are not possible. It is not my 
intention to describe during this reading the various ways in 
which these machines are operated (although I shall be pleased 
to do so at some future date, should the subject be deemed a 
sufficiently interesting one to the members of this Institution), but 
simply to illustrate the working of the most important of 
automatic clerical machines, viz.: — The Time-Recorder. These 
machines are driven by clocks, and I will endeavour to describe 
to you some of the uses to which they are put. 

There are many classes of machines, but the object aimed at 
in all cases is precisely the same — a more accurate result, and the 
economising of time which is the most expensive part of shop 
practice, and a subject which every master is open to discuss. 

To come to the machines proper. There is the simple time- 
recorder, which is used for the purpose of obtaining the exact 
time that each man commences and finishes his day's work. There 
is the machine that can be applied to cost-keeping, and upon which 
nearly all details can be worked out, such as the time taken to 
perform any operation on a given article, to make any given part, 
and to produce the completed article. Then there is the machine 
that gives the time that a tool commenced and finished work, the 
depth of ciit, and whether the tool on which the performing 
apparatus is set has been running without working. So that it 
will be evident to you that the clock of the present day is made 
not only to keep time but also to keep records. 

Wherever these clocks are used in connection with the record- 
ing of costs they are also used in connection with the card system. 
Now the card system of handling shop costs is the most elastic 
of any kind known, as it can be adapted to local conditions to any 
desired extent, with the one result, correctness. For this work 
the cards are drawn up so that full details of the particular job 
are given, and at the same time space is provided for the registra- 
tion to show the actual time spent on the job or operation specified 
on the card. The recorders are fixed at various points throughout 
the works, selected so as to be most convenient and accessible to 
the men. 



SIS AIDB TO W0KK8R0P 008T-KBRPIKO. 

Before llie coniniencemont of manufacturmg operations can 
take place, a production oriler has, under any aystem, to be issued 
from llie oflGee to tho shop. AVhat becomes of that order once it 
has entered into the shop for mauufacture, and the unsatisfactory 
way in which time spent upon it ia recorded on the system known 
as the hoard system, ia beat known to those 'who have the mis- 
fortune to depend on such a method. I think I can say without 
risk of contradiction, that in any works or factory where the board 
system is in use, it is not only impoaaible to obtain data of cost 
that is con-cct in every detail, but that it never has been and 
never will be possible, until the rouditiona that now exiat are com- 
pletely swept away and an entirely new system be adopted, namely, 
the card system. 

The (liaad vantages of the board system are many, but the most 
serious is its nttcr want of reliabililv. 

Suppose tor instance an employee has operated npon a ilozen 
difterciit jobs duriup: the course of the day. Can it be reason- 
ably expected that he will be able at nig^ht when ho makes up his 
time-board to remember how long he operated upon each article? 
The aversffe man is born honest and is honest, but he cannot avoid 
errors in the calculation of his time for the reason that few 
memories arc infallible. 

Xow to obtain prime, or lis it is sonieiimes called production, 
cost of imy article, two factors aie necessary : — (1) Cost of material, 
and i'Z) accurate kmiwleilffe of what ev<'iy process on every part 
has cost. Tnless these at- least are known, it is impossible to dis- 
cover whether any particular line of manufacture ia payinff or 
not. And how this nceesaary accuracy is to be attained when tho 
recordinff of time is left U> the wnikman — who rarely looks upon 




AIDS TO WORKSHOP COST-KEEPING. 317 

following established routine as closely as is compatible with 
efficiency, unnecessary^ irritation and friction may be avoided. 
Efficiency is what must be aimed and arrived at, and upon no 
account must it be sacrificed ; bearing in mind that it is only by 
having an efficient cost-clerk that such perfect systems of control 
can be carried out. Probably it will involve the services of an 
additional clerk, but a good business man is open to take up any 
proposal if he can perceive a return for his trouble and expenditure. 

But the outlay is after all a trifling matter compared with the 
results obtained, the risks avoided and the saving generally 
effected by having modern and perfect systems in use. The 
recording of the time of employees by machine instead of by 
memory is sufficient in itself to commend the method to employers. 

Look, for instance, at the usual method of taking time at the 
gate of a factory having one entrance, and the d liferent shops 
scattered about, as in a shipyard, or all contained under one roof, 
but on different floors. The employee enters by the gate, and 
possibly not feeling as energetic as it is iisual for him to feel, 
takes a stroll round the works, or visits diiferent floors to discuss 
a question of weight with a fellow-employee. What is tho result ? 
He does not arrive at his bench or machine until a considerable 
time after having passed the gate and taken up his board. 

In some cases the shops are as much as five miniites walk from 
the entrance, so that if a man is of such sound principles that 
he wishes to commence his laboiir at the stated hour, he is not 
able to do so owing to his having five minutes' walk ahead of him. 

Now, with the machine system, the recorders are fixed in the 
shops themselves, so that the men are compelled to be in their 
workshops by the stated time of commencing, so as to enable them 
to register. This in itself is sufficient to compel notice. The 
loss of five minutes per man on a hundred men entering and leav- 
ing a factory four times per day, amounts to £75 per annum, and 
On 1,000 hands to the considerable sum of £750. 

What is to stop this leakage, and save these golden hours and 
sovereigns? Only '* system " is necessaiy. 

I will now give you some details of such a system, with its 
three different variations in method. In the first of these, time 
is registered on cards against each man, day by day, in the manner 
already familiar to users of the time-board system : in the second, 
a separate job card is provided for each item of work ; and in the 



318 AIDS TO WORKSHOP COaT-KEEPIKO. 

third a card is apportioned to each piece of work or part, and 
follows thia part throughout ita whole career in the shops from 
thp time when the casting is issued to it* final arrival in the 
finished stores, all time spent on it being recorded on the card. 

Let us consider the first of these. The records of time being 
on a card enable the record to be ari'anged in such a way that 
it will accommodate any particular class of work or labour. The 
entering of piece work, premium work, or the distribution of 
ordinary time worked on several jobs, can all be reconled on such 

The checking of the total time of employees, as I will now 
describe it, is being successfully carried out in hundreds of 
engineering sliops to-day. Kacb man ia furnished with a card, 
or rather two cards. The first or Xo. 1 card bearing the times 
of arrival and departure on Thursday, Saturday, and Tuesday ; 
the second or No. 2 card being devoted to Friday, Monday, and 
Wednesday. 

On his arrival on Thursday morninf; the workman takes his 
card from a rack placed alongside of the machine, inserts it in 
a slot, thus registering his time, and then places the card in a 
small tin case, which he also takes from the rack or some con- 
venient place. On the back of the cards space is provided for the 
particulars of the different jobs, upon which he has been engaged 
during the morning. The man carries the card and case in his 
pocket all day long. 

AVhen he returns after the dinner hour he again registers hib 
time by means of the recorder, using the back of the card, as 
before, to record particulars of jobs worked on during the after^ 
noon. Then when leaving work for the night he registers his 




AIDS TO WORKSHOP COST-KEEPING. 319 

he can make them there ami then while the matter is fresh. Again 
the time office is not troubled with disputes, because it holds 
absolute evidence as to the actual hours of work, while the prime 
cost department gets its data fresh, and fresh every day, and, 
by posting time closely, the cost accounts can be kept really 
up to date, and the expenditure on any job which may be in 
progress is readily ascertained. 

This last is an all-important result, which goes far to ensure 
success in business. To know what is being done, what it costs, 
and why it costs what it does cost, is the most valuable informa- 
tion that a manufacturer can have, and as this knowledge can 
be readily obtained by intelligent use of automatic time-recorders, 
I think it will be admitted that we have here an important advance 
in method. 

In the second variety of coet-koeping on this method already 
mentioned, a separate job card is provided for each item of work 
performed. To successfully work this system a sufficiently large 
number of recorders must be used to guard against loss of time 
by the workmen having to go a long distance to and from the 
recorder, or on the other hand, what is still worse, loss of time by 
having to wait in turns to use the machine. 

Presuming that the foreman in charge of the shop is efficient 
and is able to keep his men fully employed, the system works out 
in the following way : — The men are furnished with cards, last- 
ing usually for a whole week, upon which they register their time 
of arrival and departure much in the same way as in the first 
method just described. But in addition to this the system pro- 
vides for the automatic control of the allocation of the man's time 
to the jobs he is working on. This is effected by means of a job 
card. When the foreman puts a man on a new job he gives him 
a card on which the job number, the symbol, and particulars of 
the part and process are indicated. When it is delivered to him, 
the man registers the time of commencement by inserting it into 
the slot of a recorder, and similarly when he finishes the job the 
time of completion is recorded by the clock in just the same way. 
He then returns the card to the foreman, who should of course 
have another job (with its accompanying card) in readiness for 
him. At the end of the day all these job cards are collecte<l, and 
the time as shown on each totalled and agreed with the time shown 
on the men's ordinary attendance time card. The job cards are 



8S0 AIDS TO W0HK8HOP COST-KBEPntO. 

then sori ed into their respective order nnmherB by the cost depart- 
Dient, thus providinj? an exact account for each order ; not only 
of what it has cost for labour in the aggregate, but showing 
exactly of what details such aggregate is made up. 

In dealing with a system of this kind it mnst be borne in mind 
that failure is bound to result if an insufficient number of machines 
are provided, and the very object aimed at will be defeated. Th» 
success of all such organization depends on the completeness with 
which its essential features are recognized and introduced. 

For repetition work, or for jobs lasting a fair length of time, 
this method is admirable, but for small work and repairs I have 
in my mind a plan which employs a mechanical device of a differ- 
ent style, and which I hope to describe to you on some other 
occasion — I refer to the iime-etamp. 

The third method of keeping costs on cards registered by time- 
recorders is sometimes known as the "way-bill system," because 
each piece of work (such as a piston rod) is accompanied in its 
progress through the shop by a single card on which are registered 
the particulars of all work done on the job. This plan applies 
where work is issued and re-issued from the rough stores, until 
it is finally completed and entered in the books of the finished 
store. The cards are ruled so as to provide spaces for registration 
over a considerable period, such as a month. The registration 
of time of commencement and finishing of each process is con- 
ducted on exactly the same plan as in the second system just 
described. The main difference between the two systems being 
that these way-bill cards are not collected daily but remain along 
with the work they represent until the latter is finally completed. 

It will frequently happen that before the job is completed it 




AIDS TO WORKSHOP COST-KEEPING. 321 

cumbrous systems which are used to-day, the clearness and 
definiteness of the information provided by such a system as this 
is remarkable. 

These brief outlines of systems of checking labour-cost are 
based upon personal knowledge of methods actually in use in 
England, America and Germany, and there can be no doubt 
that if such methods are gradually and tactfully introduced good 
results are inevitable. The whole question is one of education, 
and I am sure that the British workman with all his faults is 
capable of being educated and trained to a higher pitch than that 
which he at present reaches. 

My object in reading this paper was simply to endeavour 
to bring to your notice the superiority of the machine control 
system over the method most generally in use at the moment, 
namely, the board system. There is at present a manifest feel- 
ing of dissatisfaction with existing methods of dealing with prime 
costs. This in itself is a healthy sign. Every manager therefore 
owes it to himself and to his company to investigate every system 
that is brought to his notice, as it is only by such investigation and 
by comparison with his own methods that weak spots are laid 
bare, and when once these are discovered means can usually be 
found to strengthen them. 

I should like to take this opportunity of saying that any 
experience I have, or any information I can obtain, I shall be 
pleased to hold entirely at the disposal of any of the members of 
this Institution. 

Mr. Link submitted a number of cards which are actually 
in use in American, German, and Englisli workshops. 

The discussion on the paper was adjourned until the next 
meeting. 

The meeting then dissolved. 



PBOOBBDINGS. 328 



NOETH-EAST COAST INSTITUTION OF ENGINEERS 

AND SHIPBUILDERS. 



Eighteenth Session, 1901-1902, 



PROCEEDINGS. 



SEVENTH AND CLOSING BUSINESS MEETING OF THE SESSION, 
HELD IN THE LECTORE THEATRE OF THE LITERARY AND 
PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, ON 
FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 9th, 1902. 



HENRY WITHY, Esq., J.P.. Pbesidbnt, in the Chair. 



The Secretary read the minutes of the previous General 
Meeting held at Sunderland on the 18th April, 1902, which were 
confirmed by the members present and signed by the President. 

The Secretary said — AVith regard to the ballot for new 
memberSy four other gentlemen have been nominated as members 
of this Institution since the nomination circulars were issued. 
Their names were brought before the Council, by whom they have 
been approyed. What we have generally done in a case of this 
sort is to put the names before you, and, if approved of, they are 
elected as if ballott«d for. The names of the gentlemen are : — 



PBOCBBDDiaS. 

3 Meaara. Bkird Brotfaen, Ball Ring 

Henry Maxaon WiUon, Coniulting Engineer, 42, Groavenor Road, Kewcaatle- 

upon-Tyne. 
K. HiLll-Brown, En^^ineer, St. Helena Engine Works, Uovan, Glwgow. 
(leralil Storey, Engineer, u,'o Measra. C. A. Psraona & Co., Heaton, Newcantle- 

upon-Tyne. 

'I'hc meeting unanimously approved of the names, and they 
were declared elected. 

The I'ekmdkxt appointed Mr. A. Harrison and Mr. R. H. 
Muir to examine the voting papei-s, and the following; ^teutlouien 
were also declared elected : — 

MK.MBKRS. 
Uaggalltty, Koliert, Coniulting Engineer, Meaara. F tannery , Baggallay A. 

Jnhnaoii, 9, t'envhurcli Street, London. E.G. 
Dixon, Harold Rnylton, Shipbuilder, Measrs. Sir Raylton Dixon t Co., 

Limiteil, Khi]>l>uildci'>j. Middleabrough. 
.FarviB, Hurivii William. Engineer, West Dyke, Coatham, Keduar. 
Whyte,JaiiieaAnder8on, Superintendent Engineer, 196, Watt Street, Ulaagow. 

ASSOCIATE. 
Dixon, Tliomaa, Socrotarj-, McearH. ISir Raylton Dixon & Co., Limited, Ship. 

huiiderH, Middleslirougli. 



The discUMMion on Mr. (Jeorge I'lirker's paper on " Workshop 
Itecordit " wum rewumcd iind closed. 



Tlifi discussion on Mr. U. P. Link's piiper on " Co-operittion 




DISCUSSION — ^WORKSHOP SECOBBS. 826 



DISCUSSION ON MR. GEORGE PARKER\S PAPER ON 

" WORKSHOP RECORDS/' 

The President said — Mr. Parker s paper would have been 
closed at the last meetiiij^:, but as Mr. Rowan expressed by letter 
a desire to speak the discussion was adjourned until to-night to 
afford him the opportunity of so doing. 

Mr. James Rowan (Glasgow) said — America, American 
machineiy, American organisation and everything American has 
undoubtedly been the fashion in engineering circles during the 
last few years, and, like many people associated with engineer- 
ing, Mr. Parker has fallen a victim to this fashion. In the very 
first paragraph of his paper he tells us that the major portion of 
the literature on the subject '* Workshop Records " is of American 
origin; yet, in Appendix No. I., of the eight books quoted, six 
are published in this country, and by English authors, and only 
two in America. Five Institutions and magazines in this 
countiy and four in America are responsible for the papers 
quoted. These figures indicate that the subject has received the 
fullest appreciation in this country. He nays : — '* In Great 
Britain, however, this subject has received but scant attention 
. . . and most firms in this country believe in keeping their 
methods of organisation rigidly to themselves. This reticence 
and conservatism on the part of British firms is greatly to be 
deplored, for it is only by being able to make comparisons that 
the best methods can be arrived at." On this point everyone 
can, of course, only speak from his own experience. AVe have 
compared, as manufacturers of marine engines and boilers, 
weights, prices, cost-keeping, book-keeping and organisation, 
with many firms, the principals of some of which are members 
of this Institution. We have exhibited to them our books in 
evei-y detail, and they have been equally frank and open with us. 

Mr. Parker also states that ** so long as a firm continues to 
make large profits the need of efficient workshop records does 
not come acutely home, but as soon as competition begins to 
tell, and these profits decrease and perhaps disapjx^ar altogether, 



SS6 OlSCUSStOir — WOBKSHOP KECOBIM. 

the questiou naturally arises, How and where, if possible, cui 
the coat of proiluction be reduced ? This question, a thoroughly 
etficient aysteni of woikahop records aloue can satislactorily 
answer." The pinmineuce given here to records is out of all 
proportion to their value. The question of how and where cost 
of production can be reduced can only be answered satisfactorily 
by a combination of improved workshop management assisted 
by workshop records. Xo system of i-ecords, however ccmiplete, 
will reduce the cost of production in the slightest degree if the 
administrative powers be deficient. All that can be claimed 
for a I'ecord system is that it may be of assistance in bringing 
before the notice of the management details which might other- 
wise be overlooked. The importance which Mr, Parker attaches 
to reconls frequently leads to mischievous results, as thei-e is 
generally a tendency to rely upon the records to the extent of 
making them serve the purpose of personal supervision. A 
great deal of recoi-ding is done which may be of interest but of 
uo value, as for example:--! get a, return of every fortnightly 
pay after the wages are allocated shewing how the money has 
been spent. It takes our clerk about an hour to make up this 
return for me. If it took him two hours I should stop it, as 
it is really of no value. Again, on the lOfh of the month, I get 
a return of the money spent <luring the previous mouth on the 
wages and material for each job. This is also intei'esting, but of 
no value. 

On " IteconU of Labimr" Mr. Parker tells us that " by the 
use of time-recording clocks, the time book and its consequent 
clerical labour is entirely done away with, each man making bis 
own ii'cord with the aid of tlie idock as he airives at and leaves 




DISCFSSIOK — ^WORKSHO^ BECOEDS. 827 

TJiider '' Records of Material " Mr. Parker considers " Bough 
Stores '' and " Finished Stores '' essential to accurate cost-keeping. 
It will be apparent to those conversant with the requirements 
of a marine engineering or heavy work establishment, that to 
pass everything through these stores would involve a great deal 
of unnecessary labour, and besides these are not essential to 
giving accurate results. The usual practice in such works is for 
all material bought against contracts to arrive at the works 
distinctly marked with the contract number for which it is 
intended, and for the material to be taken direct, if possible, to 
the machine where it is to be operated upon ; and it is certainly 
much more convenient to send direct to the erecting shop finished 
parts, rather than pass them through a finished store. Raw 
materials on arrival should be accompanied by receive notes 
bearing quantities and weights, and these receive notes, after 
being checked, should be sent to the counting" house and there 
compared with the orders and with the invoices, and if scamping 
takes place the responsibility rests with the management. There 
is no advantage to be gained, but a great deal of trouble would 
be caused, by the foremen's requisition books being made to be 
used with a carbon sheet so that a copy of each requisition might 
be kept by the foi^eman. It is unnecessary to keep a copy of 
these requisitions for reference. Our method of requisitioning 
stores and recording their issue is somewhat as follows : — 

The foremen have books of requisition fonais arranged with 
provision for date, job number, description, quantities and 
weights of goods required, and for the foreman's and storeman's 
initials. The foreman fills up an order, say for twenty studs 
and nuts, specifying all these particulars excepting weight, and 
hands it to a workman. The storeman executes the order, tills 
in the weight, and initials it. These ordei-s are sent to the 
counting house every evening and constitute the stores issue 
records. The stores ledger shews the goods received and issued 
by storemen. This book is regularly posted in the counting 
house, is sufficient check on the storemen, and does not involve 
a tremendous amount of clerical labour. As a matter of fact, we 
find that the labour involved amounts to very little. It is done 
for us by a young lad of sixteen or seventeen years of age ; he 
does it correctly, and is able to do a good deal more work, and 
this stores ledger contains eveiy variety of article fully detailed. 



828 DISCUSSIOW — ^WOEKSHOP aZCOBDB. 

In the card system mentioned by Mr. Parker it is stated 
that (1) " all material received is recorded on cards which are 
filed and sent into the office daily where they are checked af^ainst 
the orders and invoices ; (2) material is issued on receipt of 
cai'd reijuisitfons fcoiu the foremen, these cards also being filed 
an<l sent into the office every day ; (3) the etoreiteeper having 
thus no clerical work to perform except on the receipt of 
material." It will bo noticed here that the storeman would 
receive onlera from the foi-eman, he would see that these orders 
were executed, but thor,' is no mention of any record being kept 
of the quantity or weight of goods supplied to tJiese orders. 
The forenion cannot fill in this data, and I think Mr. Parker 
must take it for granted that the storekeeper must have this 
clerical work to perform. The proposal he puts forward of a 
methiHl for checking waste and carelessness on the part of a fore- 
man would have the tendency to keep the foreman and storeman 
" at daggers drawn.'" This is not workshop management by 
any means, and a far better way is for the principals of a fimi 
to revise the oi-ders given out by the various foremen periodic- 
ally. AVe instituted a book so that we might find out which 
men were wasteful in u^ing oil, waste, tallow, and after keeping 
it in u.sc for about a yeai- and satisfj'ing our needs, we gave it 
up. The same miglil be ilone for foremen. To charge out stores 
according to periodical Hiictuafions in prices would involve 
serious dithculties, and besides, would not be good business 
practice. The stores kept in an eugineeiing establishment are 
i-cally piirchases in mlvance to meet i'e<|uii-ement8 for contracts 
or other work, and these should be charged out against the 
various jobw they are sUp])liod to at the rate at which they are 




DISCUSSION — ^WORKSHOP RECOBDS. 829 

is much better to divide these in proportioii amongst the con- 
tracts on hand, week by week, or fortnight by fortnight, as the 
pays occur. An oncost records book should be kept in which 
all oncost charges should be entered separately. The keeping 
of this oncost records book is really to enable any increase in any 
particular item to be looked into when it occurs, but it is well 
in the case of a book of this kind to avoid being too minute. 
The total oncost may be arrived at from a trades' ledger, where 
it may be split into a reasonable number of heads embracing, 
say, feu-duties, rents, taxes, or other similar items. In the trades 
ledger of a marine engineering shop a separate account should 
be opened for each contract, and one account to take in all 
jobbing or repair work. Each of these accounts should shew the 
material bought direct, the material taken from stock, and the 
labour spent upon the contract. The sum of these will shew the 
amount of material used in the course of a period, the amount of 
labour paid for, and the oncost accounts totalled together for 
the same period will shew the amount of oncost on the work done. 
This oncost will represent a percentage of the total material and 
labour, or of the total labour, and this figure over a number 
of years should be approximately the amount necessary to add 
for oncost when estimating for new work. In a balance sheet 
the oncost will appear on the debit side, and the difference 
between the total labour and material for each contract and the 
selling price will represent the gross profit on the cre<lit side. 
The difference between gross profit and oncost will represent the 
actual profit or loss on the period's trading. The oncost on work 
in progress for balance-sheet purposes should be carried forward 
at the ratio of establishment charges actually incurred for the 
period during which the work is done, and this is easily arrived 
at from the trades ledger by taking the output, including work 
in progress, for that period and striking the percentage of oncost 
for the same period. The manner of charging oncost is unim- 
portant, but it is preferable to do so with one percentage on 
material and wages or on wages alone, and upon no account can 
the system of splitting this figure into special factors be con- 
sidered advisable. 

On ** Depreciation " Mr. Parker is very strong that machinery 
should be depreciated individually, and gives his reason for 
attaching so much importance to this in the next two sentences. 



380 DISCOSSIOM — W0EK8H0P 

" Thug it is quite a common occurrence to find, in this isotuitiy, 
machine tools in use twenty or thirty years old, finuB being 
loth to pai-t with them because their records do not shew that 
their individual values have been written. ofE. If a record of 
each machine tool were kept, shewing the depreciation ofE every 
year, firuiH would be far more willing to get rid of old-fashioned 
an<l costly in upkeep machine tools." This is tantamount to 
saying that an engineering firm would not replace an old tool 
with a more modern ime if the depreciation records did not shew 
that the old machine had been written off to its full value. The 
((uestion of depreciation is one of book-keeping and nothing 
more. We have during tJie last three or four years thrown out 
something like a hundre<l machines and have never referred to 
book value when we proposed replacing them with new ones. 
We have thrown out machines ranging from sis months to 
thirty years old, and we sold most of them by auction, so that no 
matter what we had depreciated them to, it would not have 
aflfected our purpose nor the price we realised for them in tbe 
very slightest. Mr- Parker does not look at this from a work- 
shop manager's point of view, otherwise I imagine he would 
have modified his statement vc^ry much. 

" Loose tools are a veiy important item, and the American 
plan of providing a tool room or branch store for their reception 
is beginning t^ be largely adopted in this country." Mr. Parker 
shouhi have left out the word " American." If he were to visit 
5U0 workshops in tliis country and oUU workshops in America 
he woulil find i'av more of the workshops in this country pro- 
vided witli tool rooms than in America, and he would also have 
found to(d rooms in this country loug before tool rooms were 




DISCUSSION — WORKSHOP RECORDS. 381 

takes the check with that number on it and replaces the article 
with it, and the liability of the storekeeper to place the checks 
in the wrong place is much more remote than for cards to be 
lost or not to be properly used. The method proposed of using 
cards, as in a library, for loose tools is too troublesome to be of 
practical use in a workshop. From an accounting point of 
T^iew the method proposed, of writing off all additions and 
replacements each year and letting the value stand the same 
from year to year, is extremely loose, as in eveiy establish- 
ment fluctuations in requirements frequently occur, and it is 
"therefore advisable to have a regular yearly revaluation. I do 
not wish to take up much of your time in referring to the card 
system. We have now had a considerable experience in the use 
of cards and have adopted them in several directions in our works, 
and we have come to the conclusion that books are much 
superior to cards for all strictly book-keeping and also for final 
cost-keeping purposes. The best results are obtained by a 
judicious use of both systems. In our works eveiy man is given 
a card on which is recorded the work he is required to do and 
his time allowance to do the job. This is written out in the 
rate-fixing department. "When the work is finished the fore- 
man examines it, and, if right, initials and records time of day 
upon the job card. The inspector also examines the work after 
it is taken out of the machine, and if correct, initials the job 
card. This is all the clerical work beyond writing out requisi- 
tions, which our foremen have to do, and the workmen have no 
clerical work. These cards are abstracted into a book — everv' 
operation on an article having a page to itself. AVe have, there- 
fore, the records of the same operation on similar articles on one 
page, viz., time allowed, time taken, etc., and if we wish to get 
the cost of machining any piece of a marine engine, say a 
cylinder or a condenser, we can have it collected in a veiy few 
minutes. We recognise, by comparison with the previous times 
taken, how a man is progressing with his job, and if taking too 
long the matter is investigated on the spot. Instead of looking 
to slump figures, if our costs are low or excessive, we look to 
the details and watch them in progress. 

In points to be considered in introducing a new system some 
of the books quoted by Mr. Parker are now what may l)e termed 
old books, 80 there has been no want of reliable infonnation on the 



382 DISCUSSION — WOEKSHOP KECOKDS. 

subject durin); recent years. I question Mr, Parker's state- 
ment that these iliffieulties have been overcome in America any 
more than they have been overcome in this country. I do not 
think that any finii will ever be satisfied, or should ever be satis- 
fies!, with its present arranjrements. I know from our own 
experience that changes should be made almost constantly, 
generally speakinff, tending towards simplification. 

Mr. Parkei' states that " all orders should emanate from one 
central source and that these orders should finally converge 
towanls that same central source, and that this central source 
is, of course, the office." But something ought to have been 
said as to the manner in which this should be done. Orders may 
go through one book and the result may be shewn through 
another, but this is an inconvenient and somewhat clumsy 
method of making comparisons. The estimate, which is really 
the source, should be made on sheets and the costing system 
anangeJ in such a way that the final returns of costs will be 
entered on the sanie sheet and side by side with the estimate. 
We split up our estimates and costs for marine engines and 
boilers into nineteen sections, and the difPerent items of material 
for each section are fully detailed, one entry being ma^lc for 
wages against each section, so that when a job is completed the 
quantities, weights, rates, etc., are shewn beside each other, 
item to item, estimate and cost. 

On page 289 it is stated that " in using the collective oriler 
sytem, as described, the a^lvantages are twofold ; first, it enables 
the card to follow the part which it lepresents right through the 
shops, going to each man who has work to do on it, and serving 
the purpose of ordering everything in connection with it; second. 




DISCUSSION — WORKSHOP RECOEDS. 333 

material in the works. A card is sent from the drawing office 
to the smithy and another one to the pattern shop authorizing 
work to be proceeded with, also to the counting house for material 
to be bought. When the smith has manufactured an article, he 
initials the card and passes it on to the engine works manager, 
who determines in which machine shop it is to be machined and 
puts it in the proper cabinet. The foreman of that department 
initials this card whea he is finished with it and so on. The 
foreman patternmaker, when he sends a pattern to the foundry, 
initials his card and passes it on to the engine works manager, 
who directs the receiver of material to initial it when it comes 
into the works, if good, and also to put it into the cabinet of the 
foreman who is to machine it. 

Mr. Parker has read to the Institution a most interesting 
paper. While there is a great number of points mentioned with 
which I do not agree, I take it that we have both had some 
experiences. There is no doubt that the subject is a most inter- 
esting one. Office work is generally interesting, but to manu- 
facture cheaply, records of cost-keeping, etc., will not help any 
firm to do so when the workshop management is careless. I 
tave been interested in this subject for a long time past, and 
aam most pleased to have an opportunity of disrussing and criti- 
cizing a paper of this kind at this Institution. 

MR. GEORGE PARKER'S REPLY. 

Before dealing seriatim with the remarks made on my paper 
3 should like it to be clearlv understood that the methods dealt 
>nrith are described simply from a general standpoint, no particular 
^branch of engineering being in view, it being my endeavour to 
give as many known methods* as possible of keeping workshop 
records by means of cards. Therefore some of tlie methods 
described, although of no use in a marine engineering establish- 
ment, are of value in other workshops. 

In reply to Mr. MacColl I am sorry I am able to give him 
but little information as regards the cost of cost-keeping under 
the various methods I have described ; but Mr. Cowan in his 
reply to the discussion on his paper on " Workshop Administra- 
tion," read before the Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders 
in Scotland, gives the cost, in an establishment where a card 



881 oiscussiotr- -wobsshof recobds. 

HyHtpm liaci been in operntion. for three years — the work being 
liffht, and the proportion of materials to labour 4 to 1 — ^for 
keeping the gt<nei-al accounts of the establishment and the coet 
arrountfl of tlio work (costing about £30,000 per annum) as 
Nlightly over 1 per cent, on the cost of the work. There are 
Ht'vcrn! other iiiteivsting xtalements in reference to the card 
xyHtein in the tliooiiHtiion on the almve paper. 

Ab regards the old tinie-boani system I am surprised that Mr. 
Mnc('ol1 c-nu have anything to say in favour of it, f<»- however 
it may 1m' UKcd an<I whatever laeans be adopted to make it more 
nocumie there iit bound to be a lai^e element of guesswork 
al«iut the tiiupB reeonled. Mr. MacCoU objects to foremen 
using u ticket (miii'li, but surely a hole punched in a card is 
much nioiv accunite than initials made with a stubby piece of 
}H'neil, especially as foremen are not usually engaged for their 
ability as iieiimeii. I quite agree with Mr. HacColl that a 
manager .xhoulil always Im' on the look out for methods by which 
savings can be made, but unless he has accurate records with 
which to work lie will often l>e imaware of losses which are being 
ineuri'ed pveiy day. 

In reply to Mr. Weatherall I should like to refer him to some 
of the piipers given in .VpjH'ndix I., page 'i^l, of my paper, espeoi- 
nlly to the ■t'oiiiplete Cost Keeper." by H. L. Arnold, and the 
pjjlK'r entitled " ('ost-Keeping at the rhieagt) "Works of Fraser & 
Chiilmers," when^ he will find full descriptions of card cost- 
keeping systems in use by firms employing 1,000 to 1,500 men 
and making a great number of aiwcialties. I am pleased to hear 
Mr. \\'eallierall condemn the l>oard system, and as regards canls 
getting diitied in their jmssage through the shops, this can be 




DISCFSSION WORKSHOP RECORDS. 885 

major part of the literature on the subject " Workshop Records '' 
is of American origin, but if he will refer to Appendix I. again 
and take the authors of the papers into consideration he will 
find that out of a total of eight books and seventy-two papers, 
only six books and twenty-four papers are by English authors, 
while there are two books and forty-eight papers by Americans ; 
and if the amount and value of the information afforded be taken 
into account there is no comparison at all. I quite agree with 
Mr. Bowan that ** How and where the cost of production can be 
reduced can only be satisfactorily answered by a combination 
of improved workshop management assisted by workshop 
records," but given two com]>eting firms, one of which has good 
management but inaccurate records, and the other indifferent 
management but accurate records, the firm with the inaccurate 
records, despite it« clever manager, will soon be put out of the 
market, provided, of course, that the quality of the work turned 
out is the same in both cases. In reference to " rough stores " 
and ** finished stores " I again quite agree with Mr. Rowan that 
it is impossible to work a " finished store " in a marine engineer- 
ing establishment, but the principle will be the same, for in 
all manufacturing establishments raw material should come in 
at one end and be gradually passed through the shops until it 
issues at the other end as a finished product, and the straighter 
this line of progress (all other factors being equal) the more 
economical the cost of production. As regards Mr. Rowan's 
method of dealing with raw material I should like to ask him 
how he is able to locate the whereabouts of every little casting 
and forging which comes in, if they are simply delivered on the 
shop floor in the vicinity of the machine which is to operate on 
them ; and also in the case of many duplicate parts, how he is 
to prevent a workman helping himself when he happens to 
spoil a part. 

I am sorry to hear Mr. Rowan say that he considers the 
subject, " Establishment charges," has been very much over- 
rated by most writers, for in my opinion it is to the treatment of 
this item that the most attention must be paid in order to make 
the cost accounts accurate. Mr. Rowan goes on to say that 
" oncost or establishment charges should, of course, be reduced 
as much as possible by charging to the jobs in hand direct 
instead of to the oncost accounts.'* This is a most pernicious 

VOL. XV1II.-M02. 25 



-WORKSHOP BECOHDS. 

practice and generally means that articles are charged out against 
a contract or job and are afterwards used on other contracts or 
jobs, the first contract or job bearing the whole chaise ; or the 
contracts or jobs are charged with some arbitrary proportion 
of the total charges each week or fortnight Many UrmB by 
adopting this plan think they are reducing their establishment 
charges, whereas they are only increasing the cost of some con- 
tracts or jobs to the benefit of others, I am surprised that Mr. 
Rowan, as the avowed advocate of the premium plan in this 
country, should be satisfied with such a rule of thumb method 
of dealing with "establishment charges," especially as jobs 
taking a short period of time but highly paid skilled labour are 
burdened with the same percentage as jobs taking a much 
longer period of time and cheap unskilled labour. 

As an accountant I shoulil like to draw Mr. Rowan's attention 
to his use of the term " balance sheet," A balance sheet cannot 
show profit or loss, and the account wherein "oncost" would 
appear on the debit side would be either manufacturing account 
(as representing the whole outpiit of a firm) or contract No. — 
(as representing any specific contract). As I said in my paper 
oncost is very often omitted in valuing work-in-progress for 
balance sheet purposes, but there is no reason why it should not 
be taken into account when it is scientifically dealt with. The 
method Mr. Rowan proposes is vei-y far from being scientific, 
and I should not consider a balance sheet, with a lai^e sum far 
work-in -progress (made up in this way) amongst the assets, as 
being a fair statement of the position of a firm. Mr. Rowan 
also evidently considers "depreciation" a subject of secondary 
importance and dismisses it as " a matter of book-keeping only," 




WSCUSSION — WORKSHOP EECORDS. 887 

it is undoubtedly advisable to revalue the tools occasionally. 
As regards the " collective oi*der s:ystem '' Mr. Rowan says : '* I 
am sure if the cards were going through five or six workmen's 
hands very little of the card would be left by the time it was 
returned to the rate-fixing depai-tment. Here again Mr. Rowan 
omits part of the method proposed, viz., the use of advice cards 
by means of which the collective order card need never go into 
the workmen's hands. I must also refer Mr. Rowan to my 
reply to Mr. Weatherall on this point. 

I feel extremely indebted to Mr. Rowan for the time and 
trouble he has exjjended in criticising my paper, and I am sure 
all who are interested in the subject will agree with me that his 
remarks, coming as they do from one who has had so much 
practical experience of the card system, will be of great service 
to any of us, who may be contemplating the introduction of 
more modern methods, as showing some of the pitfalls to be 
avoided and difficulties which may be met with. At the con- 
clusion of my paper I ventured to express the hope that this 
Institution might see its way to do something to promote the 
further study of the commercial side of engineering, for after 
all no one builds ships or engines for love, and the man who can 
do a given thing cheapest (everything else being equal) is the 
one who will come out on top. We have an engineering section 
and a shipbuilding section, wliy not a coiumercial section also!*^ 
Then perhaps we would have more papers on commercial sub- 
jects and more discussion. 

On the motion of the President a hearty vote of thanks was 
accorded by acclamation to Mr. George Parker for his valuable 
paper. 



i)180U88lON — AIDS TO WORKSHOP COST-KBBPING. 339 



iJiSGUSSION ON ME. E. P. LINK'S PAPEE ON * CO- 
OPEEATION AND MECHANICAL AIDS TO WOEK- 

SHOP COST-KEEPING." 

Mr. Alf. Habbison, speaking on Mr. Link's^ paper, said — I 
did not intend speaking on this paper but would like to make a 
few remarks. The writer stai-tles us by introducing that most 
important subject on the social relations between mastei-s and 
employees. All employers regret the ever-increasing difficulty 
of keeping in touch with their men. We recognise that the way 
to get the best out of our men is by getting hold of their heai-ta 
and 1 feel sa-tisiied that the maximum of success will be with 
those employers who are in closest harmony with their men. 
The writer of the paper anticipated some difficulty on the pai-t 
of the members in being able to connect this interesting problem 
with the question of * How to Keep Cost/' and 1 do not see that 
any time-recording clock will help towards a better feeling 
between workmen and their employers. The unfortunate paia- 
graph describing the workman starting his work suggests that 
consideration for the workman had better not have been enter- 
tained. 

The main poHion of the paper is a comparison between time- 
recording clocks and the old-fashioned time-boaids. Eor thii'ty- 
two years we have been working on a cost-system by which the 
whole of the work on a set of engines and boilers, from booking 
the order to delivering the machinery after trial at sea, is divided 
into about eighteen sections distinguished by schedule letters. 
A separate cost-book is kept for each contract and the costs are 
posted in such a way that the actual cost of labour' and material 
can be seen at any time during the progress of the work. On 
completing the work a cost analysis sheet shewing details of each 
separate section is prepared for every contract, so that we can com- 
pare any section with the results of other similar or duplicate jobs, 
and should there be any diiferences they can be localised and 
explained easily, ^'v'hen we require costs of small details, we 
issue a special number and follow the job carefully thiough the 



340 DIHC0S8IOH — AIDS TO WORK»HOP OOST-EHBPlNO. 

sliops. After tbirtj-two years' working witli this aystem it fltill 
appeals to uie as being simpler and better than an.y card system 
I have seen. After visiting a number of works in Scotland to 
eiuiuire into this system I came away feeling that it was far 
t«o elaborate and that it was not necessary to be constantly 
repeating throughout the whole year tbe cost of a lai^e number 
of duplicate parts, when the occasional cost seems to be all that 
is requii'e<l for useful purposes. I am glad to hear Mr. Rowan's 
excelleut remarks to-night and am not surprised to find that 
some of these methods which I saw in operation were not so 
useful as the people represented, in fact, in some of the woricB 
they had been dropped. 

As to the tirae-recor<ling clocks, I do not see any necessity 
for a man having to enter as far as a dozen jobs on his time- 
board. (Jul' avei'age number of entries is thiee and a half and 1 
see no reason why a man should not be given as much work of 
one kind as will keep him going half a day. Our system of time- 
keeping is as follows ; — PJvery time a man starts work he draws 
a check with his number on at the time-c^ce and drops it into 
the time-office again. After all men are in and the doors closed 
the timekeeper eiiters the numbers of the remaining checks into 
a book HO that a caieful record is kept of all absentees. After 
the day's work is done the time-boards are filled up by the men 
and dropped into the time ofHce when leaving. The night watch- 
man sorts them into certain groups corresponding to each class 
of men employed, and after the works are started next momiug 
ciixh (i^roup is carefully gone over by their foreman or charge- 
man and if coiTeet tliey are initialed and handed to the time- 
keeper who enters them into his time-book. We have a separate 



PBOOBEOINGS. M 1 



CLOSI^^G BUSINESS. 



The meeting then proceeded to transact the custom aiy clos- 
ing business of the session. 



APPOINTMENT OF AUDITORS. 

Mr. J. R. FoTHERGiLL — I havc pleasure in proposing that 
Messrs. R. W. & J. A. Sisson be re-appointed auditors. They have 
been our auditors for many years, I think since the Institution 
commenced, and they have given everv^ satisfaction. The Council 
has been completely satisfied with their balanc<> sheets. There- 
fore I have great pleasure in proposing their re-appointment. 

Mr. J. H. Heck — I have veiy much pleasure in seconding 
that. 

The proposition was carried unanimously. 



THE NEW COUNCIL LIST. 

The Presidext — The result of the balloting on the list of 
vaoanciM in the Council is as follows : — 

President — Mr. John Tweedy, J. P., (Messrs. Wighani Richard- 
son & Co.), Newcastle-upon-Tyne. 

Vice-Presidents — Mr. G. H. Baines and Mr. AV. C. lioiTowman 
(Central Marine Engine AVorks), AVest Hartlepool ; and 
Mr. Ernest H. Craggs, Shipbuilder, Middlesbrough. 

Honorary Treasmrr — Mr. G. E. Macarthy, Newcastle-upon- 
Tyne. 

Members of Council — Mr. James M. Allan (Messrs. Hawthorn, 
Leslie & Co.), St. Peter's Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; 
Mr. George Clark, Southwick Engine AVorks, Sunder- 
land; Mr. George Jones (Messrs. Sir AVilliam Gray 
& Co.), West Hartlepool ; Mr. J. R. Perret (Elswick 
Shipyard), Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; and Mr. J. L. Twaddell 
(Messrs. Palmer's Shipbuilding Co.), Jarrow-(m-Tyne. 



342 PHOCSBDrBGS. 

INSTALLATION OF NEW PRESIDENT. 

T]ie Prekident (Mr. Henry Withy) — The next busiaeBs is the 
mstallation of our new President, I am sure you will all be very 
pleased with the appointment of Mr. John Tweedy, and all know 
that he will be able to oaiiy on the business of this Institution 
with the greatest ease and pleasure. I have told him what heai-ty 
support the President is certain to receive from the members and 
from the Council — perhaps I might say especially from tlie 
Council — and I am sui-e we all hope that he will have a happy 
time of office and not find the labours at all a burden to him. 
There is not very much more business to do to-night, but it is 
for the new President to take tlie chair. I therefore now ask 
Mr. Tweedy to take the chair. 

Mr. Tweedy took the chair amid hearty and general applause. 

The Presidkst (Mr. John Tweedy) said — I thank you very 
much for the honour you have conferred upon me in placing me in 
the position of President of this Institution. I scarcely think 
you have been so happy in your choice this year as you wei'e 
two years ago when you elected my predecessor. It is a com- 
fort, however, to know from Mr. Withy and other predecessors 
in the chaii- that tlie Council are so indulgent and so generous 
in the assistance they give to their Presidents, and I hope, if 
they will continue that indulgence a year or two longer, the 
Institution will not suiter during the time 1 occupy this position 
of President. 




PROCEEDINGS. 343 

second to none, and I specially desire our thanks to liim should 
include our appreciation of his constant and regular attendance 
in the chair, not only at our General Meetings, but equally at 
our Council Meetings. 

The work of the President is more in the Council than at 
the General Meeting, and occasionally when knotty points come 
forward affecting the well-being of the Institution the Council 
look to the President for guidance, and it is with satisfaction 
I say Mr. Withy has the kind thoughts and feelings of every 
member of the Council for the practical common-sense manner 
in which he has conducted the business of the Council. Although 
we much regret losing Mr. Withy as President, yet the rule tiiat 
after a certain term of office the President must retire is undoubt- 
edly a wise one and to the best interest of the Institution. 

Our new President will find the Council a very democratic 
body, but always ready and willing to have their President's 
views and guidance. There is one feature of the Council most 
gratifying, and 1 can speak with some authority having been a 
member of the council for fourteen years, and that is, there 
never has been any form of cliquism, each one has onh' the 
Institution's interests at heart and this materiallv lessens the 
difficulties of the chair. I do not think It is necessan' for me 
to enlarge upon Mr. Withy's capabilities in the chair. You 
all know him and vou have all met him. You have heard him 
at our various meetings and you will bear me out in saying he 
has been a chairman whom it will be very difficult to keep abreast 
of. Allow me to say one word on behalf of the Hartlepools* 
members : — ^We were all very proud when Mr. Withy was elected 
President and we are all very satisfied and pleased with the 
manner in which he has filled the office. 

I now ask you all to give a \ery hearty vote of thanks to 
Mr. Withy for the very capable manner in which he has filled 
the chair during his term of office. 

Mr. R. H. MuiR — I have very great pleasure in seconding 
the vote of thanks proposed by Mr. Fothergill. I think I can 
say for the members, as I am perfectly certain I can say for 
the Council, that we part with Mr. Withy with regret. He has 
filled the chair at our meetings with the utmost satisfaction to 
every member, and that is saying a goo<l deal. Our President 
VOL. !nrn 1^1901 ^B 



SU PltOCEEDINOS. 

has fulfilled eveiy ihity thai waa asked of him. He was a little 
Lit diitideiit a-nd sliy of eoniinK into tlie chair, Lut he has had 
some pleaHure, as well as ffiven us pleasure, d\irmg' the time he 
lias occupied tliat position. 

Mr- .7, H, Heck I should just like to any a few words. I 
have been a meiiiher of the Council for some years and a member 
of the Institution since it started, ajid I have known most of the 
Presidents that have been here, but during the time I have 
known Mr. Withy 1 consider him a President among Presidents. 

The motion was carried with conlial acclamation- 
Mr. WiTiiv — 1 hardly know what to say in reply to all these 
flattering remarks. I have told you before it has been a veiy 
pleasant time to me while I have be^-n in office, but in any case 
the two years' labour has been amply repaid by your very hearty 
vote of thanks to-night. 



THAXKS TO RETIRING MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. 

Mr- .loiiN Walkkh was asked to propose a vote of thanks to 
the retiring members of the Council. He said — I feel highly 
honimred by l>eing called upon to propose this vote of thanks. 
I think I am peculiarly fitted — more than some other members 
of this Institutiim — for the duty I am asked to perform, because 
it wa*i my high distinction, on one occasion, to be a member 
of Ihe (.'iiuncil of this Institution. Conseijuently, being well 




PROCEEDINGS. 845 

ing members of Council. There is no doubt there is a lot of work 
done which the ordinary members are unaware of. There are 
many meetings to attend, and many sacrifices to be made by a 
Council man, and I think our thanks are due to them for the 
way in which they have carried out the work. 

The motion was heartily carried. 

The Prksid.ent — I have the formal duty now to perform of 
declaring that this session is closed. I hope we will meet again 
in the autumn, refreshed by our summer holiday. 

The meeting then dissolved. 



DINNER. 

ilie works vehicles were in atteiul- 
ts to the Cutlers' Hall, where, at the 
1111(11 & Co., dinner was served. Mr. 
n.iL;-iiig director, received the guests, 
III' was supported by Mr. John 
ntution, on the right, and Mr. F. C. 
lirivtorate of Messrs. Cammell & Co., 
• ))ro*ent: Mr. Henry Withy, Past 
iTjfiil, Vice-President; Mr. W. C. 
; Mr. J. M. Allan, Member of 
rtliy, Hon. Treasurer; Mr. Joha 
ifiil nbout 200 memberB of the Institution. 

k tlie conciuaion of tlie repast, said^ — -We 
S U will not tax your patience. The first is 
ifl Lihioui', hut will doubly do so in view of 
cllk'li all of UB have borne during the last few 
■ lieaUh of the first personage in the realm. 
t itiiw pronounced to be out of danger, and 
f lir«ii-t what I am sure you will receive with 
^Iid lli« other members of the Royal Family." 

llruuk with musical honours. 



r«llill— The next toast is one which almost 

rmcerued as we all are in our defences. 

le in South Africa is an index of what 

'iii!e<l upon to serve this country in other 

What the navy could do is a question of 

mrtnJn that we all of us are sure that if the 

■ wiTf rerjuired it would be equal to all the 

I pdflsibly be mad© upon it. With regard to 

— tha volunteers — if it should so happen their 

are equally confident they would hasten 

f tkeiv part lu becomes Britons in the defence 

» there is some little stress upon our time I 

* longor, and T would ask Captain Martin, of 



348 TI8IT TO BHRFniLD. 

but it ia not often such an ingot is required. Ordinarily tliey 
make them up to 70 tons or 75 tons, for crank shafting. 
Although when finished the crank shafts do not weigh that much, 
it ie neceasary to cast that amount of steel to allow for waste in 
the various processes which follow in the development of the 
finished article. The ingot under notice was large enough, how- 
ever, to impress the visitors. Fasaing on, the visitors witnessed 
the manufacture of steel shells, and also of steel tyres, the latter 
beiuff for Midland Railway carriages. The process of convert- 
ing a square block of metal into a carriage tyre, finished all but 
the turning and boring, was novel to many present and was 
followed with great interest. The forging of an armour plate 
slab under the 6,000 tons hydraulic press was next seen. The slab 
weighed 35 tons, and is intended for the citadel of the " Com- 
monwealth." Another interesting operation was the forging of a 
large shaft for H.M.S. " Devonshire," one of the new cruisers, 
under 2,600 tons hydraulic pressure. The apparent ease and 
absolute effectiveness with which these huffe pieces of steel were 
manipulated was admitted to be remarkable. The manufacture 
and testing of springs, buffers and other accessories of a railway 
train formed another feature of these shops, after which the pai-ty 
rc-putered the train and were conveyed to the Cyclops works 
(west forge) where they arrived at about half-past two. Here 
again was witnessed a further process in the development of an 
lunumr plate of great thickness. It measured 19 feet by 8 feet 
!* inches, and was rolled down to a thickness of 9 inches. The 
carburising anil sprinkling of these plates, the hydraulic bending 
prt'Ms for bringing them into exact and proper shape, and the 
(iiiialiing shops all formed matters of extreme interest to the 




VISIT TO SHEFFIBLD. 849 



THE DINNER. 

At the main entrance to the works vehicles were in attend- 
ance, and conveyed the visitors to the Cutlers' Hall, where, at the 
kind invitation of Messrs. Cammell & Co., dinner was served. Mr. 
A. G. Longden, the senior managing director, received the guests, 
and afterwards presided. He was supported by Mr. John 
Tweedy, President of the Institution, on the right, and Mr. F. C. 
Fairholme, of the managing directorate of Messrs. Cammell & Co., 
on the left. There were also present: Mr. Henry Withy, Past 
President; Mr. J. R. Fothergill, Vice-President; Mr. W. C. 
Borrowman, Vice-President; Mr. J. M. Allan, Member of 
Council ; Mr. G. E. Macarthy, Hon. Treasurer ; Mr. John 
Duckitt, Secretary, and about 200 members of the Institution* 

The Chairman, on the conclusion of the repast, said — ^We 

have a toast list, but it will not tax your patience. The first is 

ono which you will all honour, but will doubly do so in view of 

"the load of anxiety which all of us have borne during the last few 

weeks relative to the health of the first personage in the realm. 

JEappily, the King is now pronounced to be out of danger, and 

H give you from my heart what I am sure you will receive with 

'* The King, and the other members of the Royal Family." 

The toast was drunk with musical honours. 

The Chairman said — The next toast is one which almost 
ually appeals to us, concerned as we all are in our defences. 
^HVliat the army has done in South Africa is an index of what 
i t is capable of doing if called upon to serve this country in other 
arts of the globe. What the navy could do is a question of 
elief, but I am certain that we all of us are sure that if the 
^rvices of the navy were required it would be equal to all the 
emands that could possibly be made upon it. With regard to 
e other branch — the volunteers — if it should so happen their 
^rvices were needed we are equally confident they would hasten 
the fray and play their part as becomes Britons in the defence 
their country. As there is some little stress upon our time I 
«ed not detain you longer, and I would ask Captain Martin, of 



350 VtBIT TO SHBFFIBLD. 

the Royal Engineers, to be good enough to respond on behalf of 
the Army and Xavy, meEnuuch as Mr. Manning, of the Boyal 
Navy, has been prevented from being with us this evening. 

Captain J . Martix, E.E., said — In response to the toast of the 
Army, Navj- and Volunteers, I think I had better refer you to 
the press. As a rule it gives a very fair account of the doings 
of the army and navj' and volunteers. As regards the army, 
I thinlt the past deeds in South Africa tend to show that they 
still retain the dash ami courage as of old. As regards the n&vy, 
I think what they did in South Africa shows that they are quite 
as capable of lighting on shore as on the water. And as regards 
the auxiliary forces, I think they have proved themselves capable 
of standing shoulder to shoulder with the regulars. I am quite 
sure their duties have been made much more pleasant by the 
kind assistance of the civilian population of the British Isles 
in rendering to them, their wives and families, the financial 
assistance which they have done, and I feel it is a kindness they 
will never forget. 

Col. BixcHAU, also called upon to respond, said — If this toast 
needs some one to strengthen it in the response I think a Colonel 
here of the name of W'oo<lman, who has been to the front, should 
have a<Idressed j'ou. As to the army, it is really going through 
tho same phase again. The regular army are engaged to fight 
our battles, and they do it. The volunteers have the praise of 
being volunteers, and they have done it. As to the fleet, it is a 
specialty, I think, of our own. We know what the handy man 




VISIT TO SHEFFIELD. 381 

Mr. FATBjaoLME said — I have the very pleasant task of pro- 
posing the health of the members of the Institution who are our 
guests this evening. As Mr. Longden has remarked, time presses, 
and therefore I will not do more than express the very great 
pleasure which my colleagues of Messrs. Cammell & Co. and my- 
self feel in welcoming the members of an Institution which is 
representative of industries so closely allied to our own, and in 
which we cannot fail to have considerable interest. I have great 
pleasure in giving you the toast of "The North-East Coast 
Institution of Engineers and Shipbuilders." 

Mr. John Tweedy, President of the Institution, said — I am 
sure I only express the wishes of those present when I thank you 
for the great kindness you have done us in allowing us to see 
your magnificent works to-day, and especially for the handsome 
entertainment that has followed that visit. I am sure we must 
all have derived very great benefit from seeing these large works, 
and seeing the facility with which huge masses of steel are mani- 
pulated. We are all acquainted with the launching of large 
steamers, but I doubt if we are so well acquainted with seeing 
launched a huge armour plate. We could not pass through the 
works without seeing that Messrs. Cammell had put themselves 
to great inconvenience and considerable expense for the purpose 
of bringing together interesting operations just at the right 
moment, and I think that alone deserves our heartiest thanks. 
I am told that time presses, and I must conclude by thanking 
Messrs. Cammell & Co. for the great kindness they have done to us, 
and the great technical and physical benefit they have given us. 

Mr. Hexry Withy, Past President, said — Almost the best 
toast has been resei-ved to the last. It has been given to me to 
propose a vote of thanks to Messrs. Cammell & Company for their 
great kindness in throwing open their works to-day. We have 
paid many visits of this kind before, but I am sure none have 
been more interesting to us than to-day's proceedings. AVe 
are all accustomed to see operations of tne nature of those which 
we have seen to-day, but the magnitude is the difference, (jur 
operations are comparatively small, and I am sure we must all 
have learned a great deal from the verj^ fine machinery and appli- 



852 VISIT TO SHEFFIELD. 

ances we have seen. As this is the last toast I am privileged to 
put it in very few words — " Messrs. Cammell & Company." 

The toast was very cordially honoured. 

The Chairman said — On behalf of my colleagues and myself 
I thank you most sincerely for the way in which you have received 
this toast. It has been a pleasure to my colleague in the manag- 
ing directorship, Mr. Fairholme, and all associated in the control 
of what I may call a vast establishment, to open our doors to-da^ 
and to show you what can be seen within the walls of the works, 
or part of the works, of Cammell & Company. You have not 
seen them exactly in the shape in which we might have allowed 
you to have viewed them, because we are not so busy as we have 
been, and we are to some extent suffering from the falling away 
in business which is before us. You gentlemen connected with 
shipbuilding are too well aware that your industry is threatened 
with invasion, and the steel industry is threatened in the same 
fashion. Let us hope we will all stand together and mutually 
help each other, and if we do so I think it will be found that old 
England is not yet done for, and that in years to come we will still 
manage to hold our own as we have been able to do in years past. 
I thank you very much. It has given us great pleasure to have 
you with us to-day, and I hope it will not be your last visit. 

Mr. Tweedy said — The organization of this most interesting 
trip is mainly due to Mr. Duckitt and Mr. Hodges. Before 
separating I think we should certainly thank these gentlemen for 
their work in this matter, and say how much we appreciate their 
labours. 

The proposition was received with cheering, the health of 
Mr. Duckitt and Mr. Hodges being drunk. 

Mr. Duckitt said — There seems to be some misunderstand- 
ing with regard to this toast. I do not know how it has occurred^ 
but I believe the toast was to have been the health of Mr. Hodges, 
yet my name is connected with it. AVith regard to this trip, I was 
approached bj^ the representative of Messrs. Cammell & Company, 
and they kindly invited us to come here. So far as the greater 



VISIT TO SHEFFIELD. 868 

part of the arrangements is concerned, they have been in the 
hands of Mr. Hodges. In regard to what I have had to do, well, 
it has been a light piece of work, while I am very much afraid 
Mr. Hodges has found it has caused him a good deal of labour. 
I thank you for the way in which you have received the toast. 

Mr. Hodges bowed his acknowledgments to the company. 

This concluded the formal proceedings. 

The company then drove to the Midland Railway station and 
left by special train at 6*40 p.m., reaching Newcastle-upon-Tyne 
shortly after eleven o'clock. 



EXTRACTS FROM THE HISTORY OF THE FIRM OF 
MESSRS. CHARLES CAMMELL & CO., LIMITED. 

The Company was established in the year 1837 by the late 
Mr. Charles Cammell in partnership with Mr. Thomas Johnson 
and they traded as Johnson, Cammell & Co., Steel and File Manu- 
facturers, Fumival Street, Sheffield. Just about this time the 
railway systems of England, the Continent, America and else- 
where were undergoing great changes and were being developed 
with marvellous rapidity, thereby putting within the reach of 
iron and steel manufacturers such an opportunity of extending 
their business as had never before occurred. The firm took 
advantage to the full of the changed order of things, and their 
undertaking expanded with extraordinary rapidity. Increased 
accommodation became absolutely necessary, and experience had 
already shown the impoi-tance of being in touch with the local 
railway systems and through them with the outer world, so that 
the raw materials might be more readily and economically 
received, and the finished work more easily and promptly 
despatched. A plot of land covering eleven acres was secured in 
Savile Street, adjoining the Midland System, and upon it the now 
far-famed Cyclops works were erected (see Plate XXXI.). They 
were entered upon in 1845, and with increased facilities for pro- 
duction the scope of the firm's operations rapidly extended. 



354 VISIT TO SHEFFIELD. 

In 1852 Mr. Johnson died, and Mr. Edward Bury, then loco- 
motive engineer of the London and Birmingham Railway, was 
received into partnership as his successor. Three years later Mr. 
Bury retired and the firm became ** Charles Cammell & Company." 
The business was converted into a Limited Company in 1864. 
Mr. Cammell was appointed chairman of the Company and Mr. 
George Wilson, who had some years previously joined the con- 
cern, became managing director. When Mr. Cammell died, in 
1879, Mr. George Wilson was elected to the position of chairman. 
He occupied both offices with considerable ability, and with great 
advantage to the Company until his somewhat sudden death in 
1885. He was succeeded in the chairmanship by Sir Henry 
Watson, J.P., D.L. ; and as managing director by his brother, 
Sir Alexander Wilson, Bart., J.P. An incident illustrating Mr. 
George Wilson's shrewd business foresight may be mentioned. 
In 1880 and 1881, finding there was no prospect of securing a 
reduction in railway charges, and that the competition of rail- 
making firms was becoming increasingly keen, he urged the 
establishing of works for their manufacture on the Cumberland 
coast, a place within a few miles of extensive ore-fields, where 
there was ample harbour accommodation ; and whence their 
production could be sent to Liverpool by sea at less than half 
the cost of railway rates. His suggestions were carried out 
and proved an entire success. When Sir Alexander Wilson, 
the present Chairman, came to the Cyclops works it was a 
private undertaking, employing some five hundred people. He 
has seen it develop into one of the most gigantic concerns of 
the world, having a capital of over one million pounds sterling 
and employing upwards of ten thousand men. In bringing 
about this marvellous progress Sir Alexander Wilson has 
taken a very active and prominent part. With the armour-plate 
industry his name is indissolubly associated. Prior to the rolling 
at the Cyclops works, in 1862, of the first iron plate, he had given 
his closest attention to the subject of armour for battleships, and 
in 1876 he introduced the " Wilson Compound Plate,'' which for 
so many years, notwithstanding the severest tests, held the field 
against all other inventions. Indeed it is only in quite recent 
years that it has been improved upon. It has already been 
stated that the Cyclops works wore commenced early in the forties. 
They were extended as the business prospered until the utmost 



VISIT TO SHEFFIBLD. 35^5 

limit was reached. At the present time they are devoted to the 
manufacture of armour plates, axles, tool steel, files and all kinds 
of small forgings. In them is also the crucible steel plant. More 
accommodation being needed to meet the growing connections of 
the Company, the Yorkshire Steel and Iron Works at Penistone 
were acquired in 1864. In them is carried on the manufacture of 
steel rails, railway, locomotive, carriage and wagon tyres and 
axles, locomotive crank axles, shafting of all descriptions, marine 
crank and straight shafting, piston and connecting rods, and forg- 
ings for all purposes and of all weights up to twenty tons. Even 
with this important addition to their means of production the 
Company were still cramped for room, and commodious works were 
erected at Grimesthorpe (see Plate XXXI.). Here they have 
their large hydraulic forging press and Siemens-Martin steel 
plant, and here they produce steel forgings and castings of any size 
and weight up to 120 tons. It is worthy of note that Messrs. 
Cammell & Co. were the first to introduce in England the system 
of forging steel ingots by hydraulic pressure. This was in 1863. 
In 1882 the Company purchased the Derwent works at Working- 
ton, in Cumberland, where they are manufacturing steel rails 
through all stages, from the ore to the finished rail. The Old and 
New Oaks Collieries were purchased in 1872 and the Company are 
able to furnish their works with an ample supply of the finest 
quality of coal from their own pits. 



VOL. xnif.— 1902. 28 



MR. MAGNUS SANDISON. 

The late Mr. Magnvs Sandisom was bom at Eighlaws, Ber- 
wickahire, on the fjth Setpemher, 1857. He was the eldest BOn 
of Mr. Magmts Sandison of Caithness, who in his day did much 
useful work in building sections of the Waveriey and East Coast 
railway routes. After his father's death he resided with his 
maternal grandfather, the late Bev. William Munro of Hawick, 
where in 1867 bis schooldays began. From Hawick he was sent 
in 1869 to Penrhyn House School, Birmingham ; his first glimpses 
of Newcastle being on passing through on his various journeys 
there. From Birmingham he proceeded in 1872 to the Madras 
College, St. Andrews, from which, after a thorough grounding, 
he entered the United College of St. Salvator and St. Leonard's, 
completing his academical course therein. His engineering 
training began in the Anchor Line engine works, Glasgow, where 
in 1875 he siguerl articles for a six years' apprenticeship, the 
latter part of which was passed in the drawing office, wherein 
he gained much experience in designing and fitting up machinery 
in connection with the Bell Coleman Dry Air Refrigerator. Dur- 
ing this period he was a regular attendant and very successful 
student at the classes conducted by Mr. AV. J. Millar, C.E., and 




MEMOIRS. 357 

On his return in 1884 he was appointed Superintendent 
Engineer for the Elswick shipyard of Messrs. Sir W. G. Arm- 
strong, Mitchell & Co., after sixteen years in the service of which 
firm he met his untimely end. The loss of H.M.S. " Cobra " 
and the death of Mr. Sandison are too well known to the members 
of the Institution to need recapitulation. Suffice to say that on 
the evening of the 17th September, 1901, the vessel left the Tyne 
for Portsmouth, encountering very bad weather throughout the 
night. About seven o'clock the following morning, when 
about thirty miles off the coast of Lincolnshire and near the 
Outer Dowsing lightship, a shock was felt throughout the vessel, 
within a few minutes of which she parted amidships and sank. 
The rapidity with which the vessel settled down and the rough- 
ness of the sea allowed of only the dinghy being successfully 
launched, and the " Cobra " disappeared, carrying with her Mr. 
Sandison, Mr. Robert Barnard, who was also a member of this 
Institution and who represented Messrs. Parsons Steam Turbine 
Works, the Commander, Lieut. Alan W. Bosworth Smith, and 64 
men. The dinghy, containing the chief engineer and 11 men, 
succeeded after great danger and privation in reaching Middles- 
brough in safety. 

The Elswick firm furnishes the following statement of his 
sixteen vears' connection with them : — 

'* Between 1884 and the present time, nearly one hundred war 
vessels of every class have been built at Elswick, and the 
machinery for each of them has been constructed under the super- 
vision of Mr. Sandison, who represented Mr. Watts and the 
Elswick firm in all questions relating thereto. 

" The vessels built during Mr. Sandi son's connection with the 
firm included : — 1st class battleships of the largest tonnage and 
power for the British and foreign navies. A number of 1st class 
armoured cruisers of exceptional power for the Government of 
Japan. Several very swift protected cruisers for the Governments 
of Chili, Argentina and Brazil, in addition to a number of cruisers 
for the Chinese Government. 

'' A number of smaller vessels of varying types were built at 
Elswick and engined there during Mr. Sandison's term of office^ 
including : — 



358 HEU0IE5. 

The Britirii cruiMra " Sinaa " and " SpartaD." 

The AustrftUftn cniiBera " Katoomba," " MUdun," and " Wallaroo." 
The Britiah torpedo gunboatB (compoaite) "Rattler" and "Wasp," 

built for servlL-e in the China eeaa. 
The Britiah torpedo gunboats "Swordfish" and "Spitfire," each of 27 

knots speed. 
The Australian cniiaera "Panther" and "Leopard" [which were tbe 

first two vesseU of war built at Elswiok}. 
The Indian gunboats " Plassey " and " Assaye," each of 27 knots speed. 

" Among the larger and more important vessels may be men- 
tioned : — 

The British battleship " Victoria " of 10,400 tons displacement. 
The Japanese battleship " Yashima" of 12,300 tons and 19^ knots ipeed. 
The Japanese battleship " Eatsuse " of 15,000 tons and 19 knots sp^. 
The Japanese first class armoured cruisers " Asama " and "Tokiwa," each 

B,750 tons and 23 knots speed ; " Idzumo " and " Iwate," each 9.750 

tons and 23 knots speed. 
The Argentina cruisers " 9ih JiUi/ " aad "25/h Slay" of 3,500 and 3,300 

tons and 22J and 22J knots speed, respectively. 
The Chilian armoured cruisers "li^raeralda" of 7.000 tons and 23 knoU 

speed, and ■' O'Higgina " of 8,500 tons and 21i knots speed, as well 

as the Chincflo cruisers " Hai Chi " and " Hai Tien " of 4,500 tona 

and 24 knots speed. 

" We sliull not be far wrong in stating that Mr. Sandieoi] was 
present at everv- trial carried out by these and many other vessels 
built at Elswick. 

" The whole of the machinery used in building their vessels at 
Elswick shipyard was under the lare and supervision of Mr. 
Sandisou, who, throughout his sixteen years of servit-e, enjoyed 
the good will anil esteem of the whole of his colleagues." 



The (|Ucstion (if tlie economical propulsion of warships at low 




MEMOIRS. 85^ 

Mr. Sandison ivas one of the earliest members of our Institu- 
tion and always took a keen interest in its success. In 1886 he 
contributed, along with Mr. James Paterson, a paper on " Forced 
Draught," and later in 1890 another on " Main Steam Pipes,'* 
both of which were well received and elicited good and useful 
discussions. 

His death was universally regretted by all who came in 
contact with him and much sympathy is felt for Mrs. Sandison 
and her four children. 



MR. ROBERT BARNARD. 

Mr. Robert Barxard, who lost his life in the ill-fated *' Cobra,'^ 
was the manager of Messrs. Parsons Turbine Co. He was a naval 
architect and engineer of unquestioned skill. He came to Tyne- 
side from the south of England, and assisted in the designs of 
the "Turbinia," superintending her construction. Next to the 
inventor himself, he contributed most eagerly to the success of 
the vessel during her trial. He became manager when the pioneer 
company was merged in the present company, and superintended 
the erection of their works at Wallsend. He supervised the con- 
struction of the ''Viper,'' the *' King Edward," and also the 
" Cobra." Mr. Barnard was a firm and enthusiastic believer in 
the possibilities of the turbine. He became a member of this 
Institution in 1899. 



MR. R. C. C. HAMILTON. 

The late Mr. Robert Charles Clements Hamilton was the 
second son of the Venerable George Hans Hamilton, D.D., Arch- 
deacon of Northumberland, and the Lady Louisa Hamilton. He 
was bom at Eglingham Vicarage on the 15th of May, 1871. 
After completing his education at Repton School he spent three 
years in the engineering works of Mr. Robert Thornewill, 
Burton-on-Trent. At the end of this period he entered the em- 
ployment of Messrs. Wigham Richardson & Co., Neptune Works, 
Low Walker-on-Tyne. Subsequently he was employed by 
Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Mitchell & Co. in their works at 
Naples. At the commencement of the South African War he 
joined the Elswick Battery of volunteers and started for the seat 
oi war. Early in the summer of 1901 he returned home to 
England greatly shattered in health after the many hardships 



360 MEMOIKS. 

he had undergime. His laat and fatal journey was undertaken ■ 
in the autumn of the same year, when he Bet sail on board the 
s.a. " Para," bound for the West Indies. The " Para " had been 
fitted with a new appliance for preserving fruit on the voyage, 
and Mr. Hamilton was employed as engineer under the inventor, 
Mr. Lawton, who was also on board. When ofF Jamaica and vhilst 
at sea there was an explosion which killed the inventor, Mr. 
Hamilton and another outright and wounded several others. This 
occurred on the 21st of November, 1901.* Mr. Hamilton joined 
the Institution as a graduate in 1892 and entered the members' 
section in 1895. 

MR. WILLIAM HENRY SCOTT. 
The late Mr. William Henry Scott was one of the best known 
and esteemed figures in the commercial life of Tyneside. He 
was the head of the firm of Messrs. Scott Brothers, Limited, coal, 
chemical and metal merchants, of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and had 
been connected with the trade of the Tyne for more than half-a- 
century. He was, indeed, widely known as the "Father" of 
the Quayside, and was everywhere beloved for his courtly manners 
and genial dispoeitiou. He resided at St. Oswin's, Tynemouth, 
where he passed away on Saturday afternoon, August 16th, 1902, 
with some degree of suddenness, for although he had not been in 
good health since the beginning of the year, following upon a 
serious illness, he had recovered suflEeiontly to be able to journey 
frequently to his business in Newcastle, and was, in point of fact, 
at his office four days before his death. The deceased did not 
take any active part in public affairs — so fur, at any rate, as 
sei-viiig on representative bodies is concerned, but on more than 




MEMOIRS. 361 

MR. EUSTACE SMITH. 

Mr. Eustace Smith, who was born in 1861, was the second 
son of Mr. Thomas Eustace Smith, late M.P. for Tynemouth; 
grandson of Mr. William Smith, of the firm of Messrs. Thomas 
and William Smith, and great-grandson of Alderman Smith of 
Heaton Hall. He was owner of the St. Lawrence Ropery— a 
business established by one of his ancestors in 1781. Under his 
guidance and enterprise this business has of late years been greatly 
developed, the manufacture of steel wire rope being carried on 
on a very large scale. 

In 1881 he joined the firm of Messrs. T. and W. Smith of 
North Shields. At that time the firm possessed a large ship- 
building yard and one dry dock. This firm was latterly merged 
into the firm of the " Smith's Dock Co.,'' and Mr. Smith became 
the managing director. 

As managing director he joined with the firm of Messrs. H. S. 
Edwards & Sons, of South Shields, the amalgamation of the two 
dry-docking concerns being effected under the auspices of the 
Smith Dock Company by Mr. Smith a few years ago. A year or 
two ago, he acquired the shipyard and business of Messrs. Edwards 
Bros, and at the same time extended the shipbuilding premises 
of the Smith Dock Company in North Shields for the building of 
steam trawlers and herring drifters ; and the combined concerns 
were merged under the title of the ** Smith Dock Company,'' 
which is now one of the largest producers of this class of craft in 
the country, turning out from 20 to 25 steam trawlers and 
herring drifters per annum. 

The steam herring drifter was an innovation in which Mr. 
Smith took a particular interest. It was the necessary con- 
sequence of the substitution of steam for sailing craft in the 
fishing trade, and during the last two or three years in particular 
the yards of the Smith Dock Company have turned out quite a 
quantity of this type of fishing craft which, we understand, proved 
very successful, and well adapted to the purpose intended. 

The deceased gentleman was a most energetic and enterprising 
man, and the many improvements and additions which have been 
earned out in connection with the firm are mainly attributable 
to his fine business capabilities. He was of a most courteous and 
genial disposition, and was always very popular with his workmen. 



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362 MEUOIRS. 

While on a visit to London he was taken serioualy ill with a 
severe attack of pneumonia, to which, after ahout three weeks' 
illness, he succumhed on the morning of Saturday, June 14th, 1902. 

He was one of the earliest members of this Institution, having 
joined when it was founded in November, 1884. 

MR. GEORGE RUTHERFORD. 

Mr. Geobge ErTHEHFOHD was bom at Newlands, Peebleshire, 
in 1855. 

In 18T0, he was apprenticed to Messrs. A. & J. Inglis of Glas- 
gow and in 1876 went to Japan as manager of the £obe Iron 
Works. 

Returning home in 1881 be superintended the building of two 
steamers for Messrs. "The Queenslands Steam Shipping Com- 
pany " afterwards being appointed general manc^er of branch 
works then being erected at Cardiff by Messrs. The Wallsend 
Slipway and Engineering Company. 

These works were in 1887, enlarged by the addition of a Pon- 
toon Dry Dock and formed into a separate Company of which 
Mr. Rutherford retained the management. 

After a short severance of his connection with the Pontoon, 
during which time he was general manager of the Messrs. Bute 
Shipbuilding and Engineering Company of Cardiff, he obtained 
control of the former Company, which was re-organised as the 
Mercantile Pontoon Company, with Mr, Rutherford as managing 
director. 

This position he held until the close of the year 1901, when 
the interests of the company were merged into those of Messrs. 
The Itutc Shipbuilding and Engineering Company at a verj- hand- 




VOL. XVJJI., PLATE I. 

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