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HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
/ ^
VIOLATION OF STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL REGULA-
TIONS AND PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
IN THE UNITED STATES
PART 4
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGKESS
FIRST SESSION
OCTOBER 16 AND NOVEMBER 18, 1963
INCLUDING INDEX
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Un-American Activities
JSiTED :
UNIltD STATES GOVERNMENT
JAN 8 1964
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
98-765 O WASHINGTON : 1963
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
Uniteh) States House of REa>BESENTATivEs
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana, Chairman
WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan
JOE R. POOL, Texas DONALD C. BRUCE, Indiana
RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri HENRY C. SCHADEBERG. Wisconsin
GEORGE F. SENNER, Je., Arizona JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio
Francis J. McNamara, Director
Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., General Counsel
Alfred M. Nittle, Counsel
n
CONTENTS
Faga
Synopsis 811
October 16, 1963 : Testimony of—
Arnold Indenbaum 830
June Anita Gard 836
Peter Gumpert -___ 838
Durane U. Sherman 842
Nicholas Bateson 847
June Anita Gard (resumed) 857
Afternoon session :
Brunhilde Linke 858
Edward R. O'Neill 860
David Perham 865
Harold J. E. Gesell 867
Arnold Indenbaum (resumed) 871
November 18, 1963 : Testimony of —
Harold Glenn Wilkes 886
John Robert Glenn__ 898
Afternoon session :
John R. Glenn (resumed) 914
Marcia Haag Glenn 921
Index '. i
m
Public Law 601, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946] ; 60 Stat.
812, which provides :
* Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTE3:S
* • • * * • •
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to malte from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Consti-
tution, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents,
and to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued
under the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or
by any member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any
person designated by any such chairman or member.
* * * * * •
Rule XII
LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES
Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem
necessary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Repre-
sentatives shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the
administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which
is within the jurisdiction of such committee ; and, for that purpose, shall study
all pertinent reports and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the
executive branch of the Government.
IV
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 88TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 9, 1963
* * * * ■ * * *
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,
* * * * :|c « *
(r) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
» * * . * * * *
18. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American activities. ,
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
* * * * 4c :|c *
27. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government.
SYNOPSIS
A subcommittee, composed of Representatives Joe R. Pool, chair-
man, of Texas; Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri ; and August E. Johan-
sen, of Michigan, continued hearings on the subject of unauthorized
travel of U.S. citizens to Cuba at a public session in Washington, D.C.,
on October 16, 1963. On this occasion, the subcommittee was particu-
larly interested in establishing the true identity of one "Jay" or "J."
"Jacob" or "Jacobs," who had been mentioned in earlier hearings as
the purchaser of air travel tickets used by the U.S. students who
traveled to Cuba by way of Prague, Czechoslovakia, in the summer
of 1963.
The first witness to appear at the subcommittee's morning session
was Arnold Indenbaum, for 10 years a brakeman on the New York
Central Railroad until furloughed from his job on September 2, 1963.
Mr. Indenbaum invoked the fifth amendment and other constitu-
tional reasons in declining to say whether he was aware that a person
using the names "Jacob" aand "Jacobs" on June 10 and 11,
1963, had deposited more than $36,000 at the Ottawa, Canada, offices
of the British Overseas Airways Corporation and the KLM Royal
Dutch Airlines for flight reservations to Paris, France. He also de-
clined, for the same reasons, to tell the subcommittee if he was aware
that a person using a North Carolina driver's license to identify him-
self as "Jay Jacobs" had collected refunds on unused flight tickets
from the New York City offices of BOAC and KLM in late August
1963.
He declined to answer when asked if he had ever used or been
known by the name of "Jay Jacob" or "Jay Jacobs."
At this point Mr. Indenbaum was instructed to stand aside tem-
porarily while the subcommittee heard other witnesses.
Miss June Gard, an employee in KLM's main New York City
office, testified that Levi Laub had visited that office on at least five
occasions making arrangements for the flight of a group of U.S.
students to Paris by way of Amsterdam in June 1963.
Miss Grard said that in June 1963 she had received a telephone call
from the KLM office in Ottawa and talked to a man who identified
himself as "Mr. Jacob." He told her he was at the Ottawa KLM
office to pay for tickets which had been reserved for a group of stu-
dents by Levi Laub at KLM's New York office.
The witness also testified that shortly after the students departed
from New York for Cuba on June 25 she received a telephone call
from a person identifying himself as "Mr. Jacob," who asked that
a refund for unused KLM tickets he had purchased be sent to his
bank account. When she asked for his bank account number, he said
he had several and would call her back. She also requested that he
come to the KLM office in person and present identification of
himself.
811
812 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
It was not until about August 26, Miss Gard testified, that a man
who introduced himself as "Mr. Jacob" and produced a driver's li-
cense bearing his photograph as identification came to her office and
applied for a refund from KLM.
Miss Gard said that the man who had identified himself as "Mr. Jay
Jacob" and Arnold Indenbaum, the preceding witness, were one and
the same person.
Peter Gumpert, a graduate student at the University of North
Carolina, testified that he had met a person he knew only as "Amie"
or "Arnold" on July 25, 1963, when the latter spent the night at the
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, residence in which he (Gimipert) shared
a room with Nicholas Bateson, another graduate student at the univer-
sity. He said he had no known Indenbamn by the name of "Jacob" or
"Jacobs" while the latter was in Chapel Hill. (Bateson, according
to subcommittee information of which Mr. Gumpert said he was not
aware, had played a leadership role in the formation of a student
Progressive Labor organization at Chapel Hill.)
Mr. Gumpert told the subcommittee he had been introduced to a
Jacob Rosen by Mr. Bateson in late 1962 or early 1963. The witness
said no information had been brought to his attention, however, con-
cerning Rosen's affiliation with any Communist group. He said he
may have learned from Mr. Bateson that Mr. Rosen was connected
with Progressive Labor.
Mr. Gumpert testified that he was not a member of either Progres-
sive Labor or the New Left Club, a group which preceded the Pro-
gressive Labor organization at Chapel Hill.
He told the subcommittee that on July 26, 1963, he had obtained a
rented automobile for Mr. Indenbaum, who needed a vehicle with
which to take an examination for a North Carolina driver's license.
That same day, said the witness, he drove Indenbaum to Carrboro,
N.C., where Indenbaum completed the required tests. Mr. Gumpert
said he waited outside while Indenbaum took his examination in the
driver examiner's office and did not accompany Indenbaum during
thelatter's road test. He did, however, drive tlie visitor back to
Chapel Hill, after which he did not see him again until the hearing.
A short time after Mr. Indenbaum's visit, according to the witness,
Mr. Gumpert and Mr. Bateson ceased to share the same residence,
each moving to a new location.
The next witness was Durane U. Sherman, license examiner for the
North Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles. He testified that on
July 26, 1963, he had received and processed an "Application for
North Carolina Driver's License" submitted and signed in his pres-
ence by "Jay Jacobs." The man identifying himself as Mr. Jacobs
told him that he had not previously been licensed to operate a motor
veliicle in North Carolina or any other State, said the witness.
Mr. Sherman said that after "Jacobs" completed the required
examinations, he collected a fee from the applicant and gave him a
receipt, which could have served as a temporary license for a period
up to 30 days. Mr. Sherman testified that he forwarded the applica-
tion to the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles in Raleigh, N.C., from
which the permanent license would have been sent directly to the
applicant at Bateson's post office box, the address "Jacobs" gave on
the application.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 813
The subcommittee's counsel introduced the North Carolina driver's
license application of "Jay Jacobs," bearing stamped number 1230513,
identified by Mr. Sherman. The witness testified that, under normal
operating procedures, that number would be the number of the perma-
nent license issued to "Jacobs" by the Department of Motor Veliicles
at Raleigh.^
Mr. Sherman told the subcommittee that Arnold Indenbaum,
the man who had preceded him on the witness stand, was the person
who had represented himself as "Jay Jacobs" when he was examined
for a driver's license in North Carolina on July 26, 1963.
The next witness was Nicholas Bateson, an employee of the Univer-
sity of North Carolina who had immigrated to the United States from
liis native England in 1958, the year after his graduation from Oxford.
Mr. Bateson said he had had not applied for U.S. citizenship.
Mr. Bateson invoked the fifth amendment when asked if he
knew Arnold Indenbaum; whether Indenbaum had visited him on
July 25-26, 1963, and discussed the need for obtaining a North
Carolina driver's license; and whether he had been informed by
Indenbaum that he would represent himself as "Jay Jacobs" for the
purpose of acquiring the license.
According to the subcommittee's information, a North Carolina
driver's license was issued to "Jay Jacobs" on July 29, 1963, and
mailed to Nicholas Bateson's post office box.
Mr. Bateson declined to answer for the same reason, when asked
if he had involved Peter Gumpert in helping Indenbaum obtain a
license under the name of "Jay Jacobs" without Gumpert's knowl-
edge of the scheme, and whether he knew that Indenbaum had intended
to pose as "Jacobs" for the purpose of receiving refunds from KLM
andBOAC.
Mr. Bateson said a report in the University of North Carolina
student newspaper. Daily Tar Heel^ of November 29, 1962, which
had indicated he planned to accompany a student group to Cuba in
December, 1962, was erroneous.
He invoked the fifth amendment when asked whether he had been
one of the organizers of the Progressive Labor Club at the University
of North Carolina, but said he had no knowledge that the club had
recruited and organized students for travel to Cuba.
The witness cited both the first and fifth amendments in declining
to say whether he knew Larry Wilford Phelps to be a member of
the Progressive Labor group at Chapel Hill. In explanation of his
refusal to answer, Bateson admitted being what he called a "guest"
member of the Progressive Labor Club and said he felt bound to "the
rules of this club, and one of the rules of this club is that one is under
a very solemn and sacred honor not to discuss the names of other
people who are also on the political left."
He continued to cite the fifth amendment when asked about sub-
conmmittee evidence that the Progressive Labor Club was not recog-
nized by the University of North Carolina and was, therefore, barred
from using the university's facilities for meetings.
Mr. Bateson refused, again claiming fifth amendment privileges,
to confirm or deny a Daily Tar Heel story of September 25, 1962, that
1 Documents Introduced later In the hearings revealed that the license Indenbaum sub-
sequently used to identify himself as "Jay Jacobs" was numbered 1230513.
814 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
he had granted it an interview as a "spokesman" for the Progressive
Labor Club. For the same reasons, he declined to say how the Pro-
gressive Labor Club was organized at Chapel Hill; to identify the
individual from the national office of Progressive Labor with whom
he conferred in regard to the formation of a Chapel Hill branch; to
state whether he had been in attendance at the national organizational
meeting of the Progressive Labor Movement on July 1, 1962; and
whether, in connection with the formation of the Chapel Hill Progres-
sive Labor Club, he had conferred with Jacob Rosen, Milton Rosen,
or Mortimer Scheer.
Counsel for the subcommittee was requested by the chairman to
refer a copy of the transcript of Mr. Bateson's testimony to the
Bureau of Immigration and Naturalization for appropriate review.
Miss June Gard was recalled by the subcommittee to elab-
orate upon her earlier testimony. She said that in her capacity
as an employee of KLM's New York office she had received two tele-
phone calls from a person or persons identifying themselves as "Jay
Jacob." The first call was received from Canada in mid-June in
connection with the payment in Ottawa of money for flight tickets
for the students. The second telephone call, she explained, was ap-
parently a local one (made in New York) and concerned a request
for a refund for tickets which had been purchased but not used. The
second call was received several days after the June 25 departure of
the students on their roundabout trip to Cuba.
Miss Gard testified that the man who later came to the KLM office
in New York and identified himself to her as "Jay Jacob" was the
same person who had been the first witness before the subcommittee
that morning ( Indenbaum ) .
Following Miss Card's return appearance, the subcommittee re-
cessed until 2 p.m. the same day. '
The first witness during the afternoon session was Miss Brunhilde
Linke, a ticket agent for the KLM Royal Dutch Airlines office at 609
Fifth Avenue, New York City. She told the subcommittee that in
the last week of August a person representing himself as "Mr.
Jacobs," accompanied by another man, came to the KLM ticket office
to check on a refund request that had already been initiated. He
presented a letter from the KLM refund department, she said, which
had instructed him either to come to the office himself to collect the
refund or to authorize someone else to do so. Miss Linke said this
man also presented as identification a driver's license with his picture
on it, made out to either "Jay" or "J." Jacobs.
Miss Linke said no company official in a position to authorize the
signing of a refund check was present on that occasion, so
"Jacobs" was asked to return the following morning, which he did.
She told the subcommittee that the refund check was then given to
"Jacobs" 'by the KLM ticket office manager, Mr. van der Jagt.
Miss Linke testified that the day's first witness, Arnold Inden-
baum, was the person previously known to her as "Jay Jacobs," the
man who had received the KLM refund check from Mr. van der Jagt.
Edward R. O'Neill, ticket counter manager of the British Overseas
Airways Corporation's office at 530 Fifth Avenue, New York City,
was the next person heard by the subcommittee. From records in his
possession subpenaed for the hearing, Mr. O'Neill testified that the
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 815
Ottawa BOAC office had telephoned the New York office on June 10
and 11, IDGS, advising tliat it had received deposits of $5,000 and
$17,739.20, respectively, from a Mr. "J. Jacobs." The deposits, accord-
ing; to BOAC records, were to hold 60 seats for travel from New York
to London to Paris. Reservations for these seats, Mr. O'Neill told
the subcommittee, had initially been requested by Mr. Levi Laub in
May, and the deposit on them was supposed to have been made on
June 6. On Saturday, June 8, however, according to the witness, a
person identifying himself as Levi Laub had telephoned BOAC's
New York office from Canada and explained that he was not able to
make the deposit in Montreal on that date because the BOAC office
there was closed.
Mr. O'Neill also testified that on June 13, 1963, Mr. Laub came to
the BOAC office in New York with a Miss V. Ortiz, who purchased
a ticket for herself and another for "A. Indenbaum," for a BOAC
New York-London-Paris flight departing June 16, with an open
return date. The Indenbaum ticket had previously been reserved
under a "no-name" booking, the witness explained.
The subcommittee counsel recalled for the record that on Septem-
ber 12, 1963, witness Barry Hoffman had testified that the students
who departed from New York for Cuba on June 25 were joined in
Prague, Czechoslovakia, by a girl named Victoria Ortiz.
The counsel for the subcommittee presented to Mr. O'Neill, for
identification, a copy of a document dated August 26, 1963, signed
by "Jay Jacobs," acknowledging receipt of a BOAC check num-
bered D000149, in the amount of $4,134.40. The witness said
"Mr. Jacobs" had signed this receipt in his presence on the date indi-
cated at the time he gave the alleged Mr. Jacobs a refund check for
unused tickets. Mr. O'Neill told the subcommittee he had first estab-
lished "Mr. Jacobs' " identity from North Carolina driver's license
number 1230513, which he noted on the refund receipt "Jacobs" had
signed. The witness also identified a cancelled check shown him by
the subcommittee as the one he had signed and given "Mr. Jacobs"
on August 26, 1963.
Mr. O'Neill further testified that the person with whom he had
dealt as "Jay Jacobs" was the same person who had testified before the
subcommittee earlier in the day under the name of Indenbaum.
David Perham, an employee of the First National City Bank of
New York, testified that on August 27, 1963, a person identifying
himself as "Jay Jacob" had appeared at the bank's branch office at
640 Fifth Avenue to cash check No. 6001, made payable to him, in
the amount of $2,067.20 by the KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Mr.
Perham, who was the branch officer in charge of approving checks
up to $250 on that occasion, said he took both the check and "Mr.
Jacobs' " driver's license to another bank official who was authorized
to approve the cashing of checks m higher amounts. The check
was approved by the other official and returned to "Mr. Jacob"
by Mr. Perham, who noted on the back of the check that "Mr.
Jacob's" identification had been established by a North Carolina
driver's license. Mr. Perham said "Mr. Jacob" endorsed the check
in his presence.
Mr. Perham testified that the person who had negotiated the check
at his bank, payable to "Jay Jacobs," was the same man who had
816 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
been identified and had previously testified at the subcommittee hear-
ing as Arnold Indenbaum,
Harold J. E. Gesell, chief of the Veterans' Administration's Iden-
tification and Detection Division and an expert examiner of question-
able documents, was the next witness heard by the subcommittee.
On October 8, 1963, the Committee on Un-American Activities had
submitted to Mr. Gesell for examination four documents bearing
the signature of "Jay Jacobs." They were: (1) a BOAC check,
D000149, dated Au^st 26, 1963, endorsed by "Jay Jacobs ;" (2) a KLM
Royal Dutch Airlmes check, dated August 27, 1963, endorsed by
"Jay Jacobs;" (3) a receipt, dated August 26, 1963, on a BOAC letter-
head, signed by "Jay Jacobs;" and (4) the application for a North
Carolina driver's license signed by "Jay Jacobs."
After testifying in detail as to the reasons for his findings and
conclusion, Mr. Gesell said that, in his opinion, the "Jay Jacobs" sig-
natures had been written by the same person in all four instances.
Arnold Indenbaum was then recalled for further interrogation.
He invoked the fifth amendment in response to all questions concern-
ing the other witnesses' testimony about his activities under the name
of "Jacob" or "Jacobs."
In addition, he declined for the same reason to admit that it
was not he who, identifying himself as "Jay Jacobs" and a friend
of Levi Laub, had telephoned the New York KLM office from the
KLM office in Ottawa, Canada, stating he had deposited money with
KLM's Ottawa agent for the purchase of flight tickets to Paris.
Mr. Indenbaum also invoked the fifth amendment when asked if
he had gone to North Carolina and obtained a driver's license under
the name of "Jay Jacobs" in order to establish identification with
which he could collect refunds on unused airline tickets purchased
under that fictitious name.
At this point in the proceedings, the subcommittee counsel intro-
duced an affidavit from H. J. van der Jagt, ticket manager of the
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines office in New York City, who was out
of the country and unable to appear at the hearings. In this
statement, Mr. van der Jagt said he had given a KLM refund check,
dated August 27, 1963, in the amount of $2,067.20 to a person who
presented a North Carolina driver's license in identifying himself as
"Jay Jacobs," the purchaser of unused fligl?t tickets. Mr. Inden-
baum declined, for the same reason, an invitation to say if there
was any inaccuracy in Mr. van der Jagt's affidavit.
Repeatedly citing the fifth amendment, the witness refused to dis-
cuss his acquaintanceship with Nicholas Bateson ; to confirm or deny
tha,t, when he applied for a driver's license in North Carolina and
claimed never to have been a licensed operator, he actually possessed
a valid New York chauffeur's license; to say if he had been aware of
arrangements made by Levi Laub for travel to Ottawa, Canada, via
Trans Canadian Air Lines on June 8, 1963, two days prior to the
date when deposits were made in that city for ticket purchases from
KLM and BOAC; to testify whether he had flown via BOAC to
Paris with Vickie Ortiz in mid- June 1963 to make arrangements
for the reception of Cuba-bound U.S. student groups which arrived
at the French capital later that month; to explain the source of the
funds deposited at the KLM and BOAC offices in Ottawa; and to
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 817
reveal what disposition had been made of the more than $6,000 in
refunds he had obtained under the names of "Jabab" and "Jacobs"
from the KLM and BOAC in New York City.
Mr. Indenbaum continued to invoke the fifth amendment in declin-
ing to answer questions pertaining to the following subcommittee in-
formation concerning his background :
In the New York City primary on August 22, 1950, Arnold Inden-
baum was elected a delegate from the 21st Assembly District to the
Second Judicial District Convention of the American Labor Party
(ALP). .
In the fall of 1951, Indenbaum's name appeared on an American
Labor Party petition as a candidate for membership on the ALP's
County Committee for Kings County, New York. Heading the
ticket on which he ran was a well-known Conmiunist, Clifford T.
McAvoy, who sought the presidency of the City Council of New
•York.
The witness again invoked the fifth amendment when asked if he
had been advised to seek office in the American Labor Party by
anyone known to him to be a member of the Communist Party.
The subcommittee counsel pointed out for the record that the New
York City section of the American Labor Party was cited as sub-
versive by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities in 1944
and the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee in 1956.
Mr. Indenbaum, for the same reason, refused to acknowledge hav-
ing filed with the State Department in 1959 a passport application on
which he failed to answer questions pertaining to past and present
membership in the Communist Party. He likewise declined to in-
form the subcommittee whether he had been a Communist Party
member at the time he filed the application for a passport in 1959,
during the time he was a candidate for the ALP County Committee
in 1951, or when he was a delegate to the ALP convention in 1950.
The witness also refused, invoking the fifth amendment, to say
whether at the time of liis testimony he was a member of the Progres-
sive Labor Movement.
NO\rEMBER 18, 1963, HEARINGS
Public hearings on violations of State Department travel regula-
tions and pro-Castro propaganda activities in the United States were
continued in Washington, D.C., on November 18, 1963, by a subcom-
mittee composed of Representatives Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri,
chairman ; George F. Senner, Jr., of Arizona ; and August E. Johan-
sen, of Michigan. Of primary interest to the subcommittee were
the activities of Mr. and Mrs. John R, Glenn, a young couple who
had traveled to Cuba with the group of 58 students in June 1963,
but who did not return to the United States until about 6 weeks after
most of the others had returned at the end of August.
The first witness was Harold G. Wilkes, a warehouse supervisor
for a manufacturing company in Bloomington, Ind. He said that
for a 9-month period, beginning about the middle of August 1962, he
had rented an apartment in his home to Mr. and Mrs. Glenn, who
answered an advertisement he had placed in a local newspaper.
Mr. Wilkes said the apartment occupied by the Glenns was located
directly beneath his kitchen and dinmg room. He explained that
818 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
the same heating ducts and a common forced-air register served both
living areas, making it possible for him, while in his own quarters, to
overhear conversations taking place in the apartment below.
The witness testified that the Glenns had received numerous visitors
and that by January 1963 regular meetings were held in their apart-
ment. He said he hadn't become particularly concerned about the
nature of the meetings prior to one which was held in mid-March
1963. On that occasion, Mr. Wilkes told the subcommittee^ a group
referred to as the "YSA" was addressed by an instructor identified
only as "a comrade from New York."
Mr. Wilkes recalled that the New Yorker addressed members of
the group as "comrades" and urged them to remain faithful to the
YSA, which the witness later learned was the Young Socialist Alliance.
He testified that the speaker called our present form of government
an "imperialistic, capitalistic system," and stated it was only a matter
of time before the system would be replaced through the efforts of
the YSA and other groups.
The witness told the subcommittee that the meetings, held about
once a month, continued until the latter part of May 1963. He
said the gatherings in the Glenns' apartment had been attended
by groups of from 7 to 15 persons. He recalled that, in addition to
John and Marcia Glenn, some of the participants had been Ralph
Levitt, Jim Bingham, Tom Morgan, Bill and Paulann Groninger,
Jack and Betsy Barnes, and Don and Polly Smith.
Information developed by committee investigation of the persons
named by Mr. Wilkes was entered into the record of the hearings, as
follows :
Ralph Levitt was the president of the Young Socialist Alliance at
the University of Indiana in Bloomington, Indiana, in 1962. During
the period 1961-63 he was associated with the Fair Play for Cuba
Student Council at the university and was the original lessee of the
Bloomington post office box used by that organization.
James Bingham was treasurer and later chairman of the Fair
Play for Cuba Student Council at the University of Indiana in 1961
and 1962. In 1962 and at least part of 1963 he was secretary of
the Young Socialist Alliance at the university.
Thomas G. Morgan has held offices in both the Young Socialist
Alliance and the Fair Play for Cuba Student Council at the
University of Indiana.
Levitt, Bingham, and Morgan have been indicted for conspiring to
overthrow the Government of the State of Indiana, in violation of
an Indiana st-atute.
Paulann and William Groninger, husband and wife, are members
of the Young Socialist Alliance. Paulann Groninger is also secre-
tary of the Committee to Aid the Bloomington Students (the in-
dicted threesome) .
Jack Barnes is or was a student at Northwestern University and
is an organizer for the Young Socialist Alliance in the Midwest.
According to the testimony of Mr. Wilkes, Marcia Glenn was the
corresponding secretary for the Young Socialist Alliance. He said
he became aware of this fact in May 1963, when he overheard Mrs.
Glenn asking James Bingham whether she should resign as corre-
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 819
spending secretary, because of adverse local publicity the YSA was
receiving.
At this point in the hearing, the subcommittee coimsel introduced
13 publications which Mr. Wilkes had found in the Glenns' apart-
ment and recently delivered to the Committee on Un-American Ac-
tivities. The witness described them as samples of quantities of
such material he had observed in the apartment on an occasion when
he entered it to do some repair work.
Nine of the samples were products of Pioneer Publishers, 116 Uni-
versity Place, N.Y.C., the same address maintained by the Socialist
Workers Party and the Young Socialist Alliance of New York City.
(In 1948 the Socialist Workers Party was cited as subversive and
(yommunist by the Attorney General of the United States and as a
dissident Communist group by the Committee on Un-American
Activities. )
The titles of some of the sample pamphlets were Trotskyism and,
the Cuban Revolution — An Answer to Hoy, In Defense of the Cuban
Revolution, • An Answer to the State Department and Theodore
Draper, The Theory of the Cuban Revolution, and The Socialist
Workers Party, all written by Joseph Hansen, secretary to Leon
Trotsky until the latter was assassinated by Stalinist agents in
Mexico in 1940.
Another pamphlet was entitled IQIfS Manifesto of the Fourth
International Against Wall Street and the Kremlin, published by
the Workers Press for the Canadian Section of the Revolutionary
Workers Party.
Still another item Mr. Wilkes had obtained as a sample from the
Glenns' apartment was a song sheet, entitled "Revolutionary and
Workers' Songs," which contained verses of the "Internationale,"
"The Red Flag" and "Solidarity."
Mr. Wilkes told the suboommitt«e he had seen four stacks, each
8 or 4 feet high, of pamphlets in the Glenns' apartment. He said
he had also seen copies of The Militant (official organ of the Socialist
Workers Party), the Young Socialist Forum newspaper, and what
appeared to be a YSA constitution or charter.
The witness testified that in the Glenns' apartment he had observed
a bulletin board which displayed a Cuban flag, a post office wanted
poster of a person named "Williams," and newspaper clippings about
Communist and socialist victories in the United States. He said
there had been a mimeograph machine in the apartment from time
to time.
The next witness was John R. Glenn, 34, who maintained a post
office box in Bloomington, Ind., where he formerly resided, but said
he had been staying with his wife's parents "since we got back from
Cuba." Mr. Glenn related the following information about his edu-
cational and employment background.
He was graduated from high school in Huntington, Ind., in 1947,
and worked in various laboring and administrative capacities for
the Erie Railroad until he entered the University of California at Los
Angeles in January 1949. He transferred to the University of Indi-
ana in September 1950, but went into the U.S. Air Force '^^fore
completing a semester.
While in the service, Glenn received training in the Russian lan-
guage at Syracuse University and became a Russian linguist for Air
820 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Force Intelligence, with security clearance for secret, top secret, and
cryptographic information. Meanwhile, he continued his regular
college studies through night school and correspondence courses.
By June of 1953, he had completed all but 6 months of the academic
work necessary for college graduation and became eligible to partici-
pate in a unique Air Force program that would permit him to earn
his degree. Under this program, members of the Air Force who re-
quired only 6 months of studies in order to qualify for a college
iegree could be assigned to temporary duty at appropriate schools to
complete the necessary courses. Thus Glenn, while still receiving
regular military service pay, including food and housing allowances,
returned to full-time studies at the University of Indiana where he
obtained a degree in business administration in January 1954.
He then resumed active duty with Air Force Intelligence for
2 more years, including 16 months overseas, before being discharged
in January 1956, after reaching the rank of staff sergeant.
Following his separation from the service, Glenn again enrolled
at the University of Indiana to do graduate work in economics
and completed all but two papers necessary for obtaining his master's
degree in this field.
In the fall of 1957, Glenn entered Indiana University Law School
as a student. At the same time he taught introductory economics at
the university.
During the summer of 1958, he visited the Soviet Union, Czecho-
slovakia, and Poland for about 40 days as a guide for the Tom Mau-
pintour Associates, an American travel agency. The next summer
he toured the same countries, plus Yugoslavia and Rumania, in a
similar capacity for another travel organization.
Early in 1961, Glenn received his degree from the Indiana Uni-
versity Law School and subsequently was admitted to the Indiana
Bar.
The witness admitted that in April 1961 he had participated in
a protest demonstration against the attempted invasion of Cuba.^
In response to interrogation by the subcommittee, Glenn freely
acknowledged the following facts :
On October 23, 1961, at Bloomington, Ind., he filed a passport
application with the Department of State, listing Cuba as a country
he intended to visit. In a letter from the State Department, dated
November 7, 1961, he was notified that his request for a passport was
refused.
On November 14, 1961, Glenn sent a letter to the Cuban Embassy
in Ottawa, Canada, in which he requested a visa for Cuba. In
a reply, dated November 21, 1961, the Charge' d' Affaires of the em-
bassy informed him that, as an American citizen, he would have to
apply for a Cuban visa at the Czech Embassy in Wasliington, which
was handling Cuba's business in the United States. He was also ad-
vised in the same communication that it would be necessary for him
to have passport validation by the U.S. State Department in order
to travel to Cuba.
Glenn told the subcommittee lie contacted the Czech Embassy
in Washiugton, but was informed by an official there that his request
for a Cuban visa would have to be forwarded to Cuba, inasmuch
as the embassy was not empowered to grant it. The Czech diplomat
^ Bay of Pigs invasion on April 17, 1961, by Cuban exiles.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 821
told Glenn, however, that he had heard Americans could readily
obtain Cuban visas from the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City.
The witness confirmed information obtained through an investi-
gation by the Committee on Un-American Activities that he had
traveled to Mexico in the spring of 1962 in an unsuccessful attempt
to get a Cuban visa. Glenn said he learned in Mexico that in
order to get a visa, someone then in Cuba would have to recommend
to the Cuban State Department that he be given one. Accordingly,
Glenn told the subcommittee, he sent a telegram from Mexico to
George Shriver, a friend and a leader of the Indiana University
Fair Play for Cuba Student Council. He asked Shriver to write
Robert Williams, who had fled to Cuba to avoid prosecution by
U.S. authorities, to see if Williams could initiate action to obtain a
visa for Glenn. Glenn testified that Shriver knew Williams, whom
Glenn had met only once in Bloomington.
The witness said he received a return wire addressed to "Jack
Glenn, care of the Cuban Embassy to Mexico," which said: "Letter
sent to Williams. Keep in touch. Venceremos" (a Cuban revolu-
tionary slogan meaning "We shall conquer"). The message was
signed "G. S.," making it appear to have been sent by George Shriver.
Glenn said he later found out the telegram had, been sent by two
other friends, James Bingham and Ralph Levitt, after Shriver pro-
crastinated in contacting Williams.
In any event, Glenn was not successful in getting to Cuba from
Mexico in the spring of 1962, according to his testimony. He claimed
to have paid his own expenses for the trip to Mexico.
Glenn testified that during the Cuban crisis, an Ad Hoc Committee
to Oppose U.S. Aggression was created by the Fair Play for Cuba
Student Council and the Young Socialist Alliance at the University
of Indiana, even though the YSA had not yet been recognized by
the university at that time. He said that on October 24, 1962, the
ad hoc committee held a protest march against the United States-
imposed blockade of Cuba. The witness said that, although he sup-
ported the march, he did not participate because he had just opened
his law office in Bloomington and "that would not have been too smart
a thing to do, of course."
It was at about this time, the fall of 1962, Glenn told the subcom-
mittee, that he joined the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. He had
been a sympathizer of the group much earlier, he said. He admitted
having written a letter printed in an Indiana University publication,
dated February 10, 1962, in which he said that "the people in Fair
Play are willing to argue to anyone who will listen that our govern-
ment and our press are lying through their teeth [about Cuba]."
Glenn said that he and liis wife were frequent listeners to Radio
Havana, and from this source, in December 1962, first heard about a
trip to Cuba being planned by a group of U.S. students. The
Glenns were interested in the trip but the Cuban radio had failed
to say by whom it was being organized in the United States. Ac-
cordingly, the Glenns wrote inquiries about it to both the Cuban
Mission to the United Nations and the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee. He told the subcommittee they did not receive a reply directly
from either of these groups, but one or both of them had apparently
forwarded the inquiry to the Ad Hoc Student Committee for Travel
98-765 O — 63^— pt. 4 2
822 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
to Cuba, from which the Glenns did receive correspondence contain-
ing the desired information. -
The witness admitted that, without having applied for U.S. valida-
tion, he traveled to Cuba with the group of alleged students who
departed from New York on a BOAC plane on June 25, 1963.
Glenn acknowledged the accuracy of the subcommittee's informa-
tion that on the return trip, after arriving in Spain with the main
body of U.S. "students" on August 26, 1963, he left the group and
traveled to Morocco. He said that after he and his wife had learned
they could stay abroad for a while, they had decided to travel to
Algeria to observe the political developments there, which were sup-
posed to be similar to what they had witnessed in Cuba.
Glenn told the subcommittee that he and his wife requested their
parents to send money for them to Algiers and that they planned to
travel in Western Europe as long as the money held out.
When the Glenns arrived in Morocco from Spain, the witness testi-
fied, they received an entry permit to Algeria from the Algerian Gov-
ernment. While hitchhiking their way to Algeria, however, they
were arrested by the Moroccan police and ordered deported to Spain
as undersirables. He said he learned from both the American consul
in Rabat, Morocco, and the Moroccan police that the deportation was
ordered by the United States Government.
On the voyage back to Spain, according to Glenn, he and his wife
threw their Spain-to-U.S. flight tickets, which had been purchased
by the Cuban Government, into the Mediterranean Sea. They de-
cided to do this, he said, because they were being returned to the
United States unwillingly and wanted the U.S., not Cuba, to bear
the cost of the transportation under those circumstances.
On October 15, 1963, according to investigation by the Committee
on Un-American Activities, Glenn reported to the American Embassy
in Madrid, Spain, that he and his wife did not have a ticket for
return transportation to the United States. The embassy purchased
a ticket for them, and they were flown to the United States on an
Iberian Air Lines plane.
Mr. Glenn told the subcommittee he did not know who purchased
the ticket on wliich they were actually transported home. He said
he had told Iberian Air Lines, however, not to use "our right" to the
transporta.tion which had been purchased as a gift by the Cuban
(xovernment. He said he informed Iberian representatives that the
transportation gift from Cuba was "our property" and was not to be
used to transport the Glenns "against our express will."
During the course of his appearance before the subconmiittee, Mr.
Glenn was quizzed on a variety of additional matters. A summary
of certain of his responses follow^ :
John Glenn and a student named Jack Marsh were living at the
same apartment address in Bloomington at the time Glemi applied
for a U.S. passport for travel to Cuba in October 1961. Glenn was
responsible for Marsh's'initial interest in Cuba, which led to the lat-
t«r's joining both the Youn^ Socialist Alliance and the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee. (Accordmg to investigation by the Committee on
Un-American Activities, Marsh rented a post office box for the Y.S.A.
in Bloomingtoji, Ind., on September 20, 1962.)
Ralph Levitt attended meetings of the Young Socialist Alliance
held m the apartment of John and Marcia Glenn, rented from
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 823
Harold Wilkes in Bloomington. James Bingham and William and
Paulann Groninger were others who had visited the Glenns' apart-
ment on different occasions, probably including meetings of the
Young Socialist Alliance and the Committee to Aid the Blooming-
ton Students. Mrs. Glenn was a member of the latter group. Mr.
Glenn believed Mrs. Groninger was the secretary of the Committee
To Aid the Bloomington Students as well as a member of the Young
Socialist Alliance.
Continuing with a summary of Mr. Glenn's testimony:
He never was a member of the Young Socialist Alliance or the
Socialist Workers Party. Nevertheless, he accepted the Trotskyist
viewpoint and cooperated with and worked for the benefit of the
YSA and the Fair Play for Cuba Student Council. Glenn was not
always in agreement with the Young Socialist Alliance and the
Socialist Workers Party. He said he had disagreed with their
opposition to the student trip to Cuba and their thinking that it was
unnecessary for persons to have to visit Cuba in order to under-
stand the revolution transpiring there.
Wlien Glenn was asked if he had made his apartment in Blooming-
ton available for YSA meetings and traveled to Cuba for the purposes
of supporting the Cuban revolution, he replied :
Yes, I do support the Cuban revolution. * * * I support
the Cuban revolution and I will defend it.
Glenn related incidents of the frequent jailing of Trotskyists in
Cuba. He said the Soviet Union had tried to force Castro to smash
the Cuban Trotskyists in order to receive aid from the U.S.S.R. The
witness stated that although Castro had refused to smash the Trot-
skyists, Cuban authorities did pick them up for a few hours at a time,
or overnight, without ever filing charges against them. Glenn said
this did not stop the Trotskyists from supporting the Cuban revolu-
tion. He said:
They realize Cuba has to have Russian aid. If little
things like this have to happen they feel it is no reason to
stio^ the revolution.
Glenn attempted to justify mass executions in Cuba by saying all
of the victims "were murderers under the Batista regime," and they
"had the blood of Cuban people on their hands — ^,000 of them."
He acknowledged, however, the same type of charge was made by
the Communist regime in the Soviet Union to justify mass liquida-
tions in the 1930's.
The final witness was Marcia Haag Glenn, wife of Jojin R. Glenn.
A native of New York City, she was graduated from Cranford High
School in Cranford, N.J., in the spring of 1957 and entered the
University of Indiana the following fall. She remained at the uni-
versity as a student or employee, and sometimes in both capacities
simultaneously, until 1962. Her employment included positions in
the Chemistry and History Departments of the university. She also
was engaged in a Latin American studies program at the University
of Indiana as she worked toward her master's degree.
Mrs. Glenn confirmed the subcommittee's information that, under
the name of Marcia Haag, on December 18, 1962, while in Blooming-
ton, Ind., she had filed for a U.S. passport, which she received on
824 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
December 21, 1962. She acknowledged that on the passport applica-
tion she had listed Venezuela, Colombia, and Peru as countries to be
visited and indicated December 24 or 25, 1962, as the probable date
of departure. She told the subcommittee she had been aware of
the possibility that she might take part in a "student" trip to Cuba
tentatively scheduled to depart in December 1962, but did not list
Cuba on her passport application because she was dubious that the
trip would take place.
She admitted, nevertheless, that she had not subsequently traveled
to Venezuela, Colombia, or Peru and that she had traveled to Cuba
at a later date.
Mrs. Glenn was queried about a news story which appeared in the
July 6, 1963, issue of Sierra Maestra^ a Cuban newspaper, and which
identified her as an American student who had visited Cuba's "Hall
of Martyrs." She said she had been improperly quoted in the story
and proceeded to tell the subcommittee what had occurred at that
time.
She said she had visited the Hall of Martyrs in Santiago and that
during the visit, she and her husband were sitting right behind a
group of Cuban women whose sons had lost their lives in the revolu-
tion. Mrs. Glenn told the subcommittee that this was a very emo-
tional experience which made her cry. She stated that at this point
an American student stood up and said the Americans were to blame
for the loss of a lot of Cuban lives, because the Americans had initi-
ated the fighting against the Cuban people. Mrs. Glenn told the
subcommittee she agreed with the statement.
When the Sierra Maestra story of the incident appeared, it at-
tributed to Mrs. Glenn these words: "We shall do what is possible
when we return to our country to initiate a socialist revolution."
Mrs. Glenn testified that she had not made that statement at that time.
However, she informed the subcommittee, she subscribed to the goal
and objective of seeing a socialist revolution in America.
In response to questions concerning meetings which had taken
place in the apartment the Glenns rented from Harold Wilkes in
Bloomington, Mrs. Glenn testified that the Young Socialist Alliance
had met there only once, and that had been in January. Other meet-
ings, she said, were held by the defense committee for the three stu-
dents who had been indicted at Bloomington. Meetings of the de-
fense committee, she stated, were attended both by persons who were
and were not members of the YSA.
She said Ealph Levitt and James E. Bingham, two of the three
indicted YSA leaders, were usually in attendance at meetings held in
the Glenns' apartment. She said further that Levitt, Bingham, and
Thomas G. Morgan, the third YSA leader under indictment, were all
personal friends and had been in the apartment on many occasions.
The witness was questioned about a meeting which Mr. Wilkes
testified had been held in the Glenns' apartment in mid-March 1963
by the YSA, at which time the group was addressed by a "comrade"
from New York. Mrs. Glenn said "this gentleman" had stayed in the
apartment and was present for several social gatherings, "but these
were not meetings." She said the New Yorker was a YSA member
and she thought ne was the secretary of the organization.
Mrs. Glenn admitted that Jack Barnes, Midwest organizer for
the Young Socialist Alliance, had attended meetings held in her
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 825
apartment by the defense committee for the three indicted students.
Mrs. Glenn denied she had been the recording secretary of the
Young Socialist Alliance in Bloomington or that she was presently
a member of the group. She admitted having been a YSA member
from January until June, in 1963, but said she had resigned because
the YSA had a policy of "not permitting" its members to ^o on the
student trip to Cuba. She said she had learned of this policy
from the national secretary of the YSA.
She said she had talked to no one from the Socialist Workers
Party concerning her participation in the trip to Cuba.
Mrs. Glenn said the YSA's attitude on the student trip notwith-
standing, there was no doubt the YSA supports the Cuban revolution.
She admitted having belonged to, and performed services for, the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee and the Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose
U.S. Agression, the latter being organized for a one-time demonstra-
tion agamst the U.S. blockade of Cuba in October 1962. She said the
latter group had met once in her apartment prior to its protest demon-
stration, after which it went out of existence. The ad hoc group,
Mrs. Glenn testified, included students from the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee, the Young Socialist Alliance, the National Associa-
tion for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Young People's
Socialist League.
Mrs. Glenn denied that an undated statement by the Ad Hoc Com-
mittee to Oppose U.S. Aggression had been reproduced on a mimeo-
graph in her apartment. She admitted she had participated in the
demonstration on October 24, 1962, during which time the state-
ment was distributed, "we oppose united states threat to world
peace" was the heading of the ad hoc group's statement, which
accepted the words of Fidel Castro against those of the President
of the United States, when it said :
Premier Castro has stated that there are no "offensive"
weapons in Cuba. This indicates there is no immediate
threat to the United States.
Mrs. Glenn admitted she had made no request for State Depart-
ment validation of her passport for travel to Cuba before going
to Cuba with the alleged student group in the summer of 1963.
She testified that her supj)ort- of a socialist revolution in the
United States would not include forceful overthrow of the
Government.
VIOLATIONS OF STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL REGU
LATIONS AND PRO CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIV
ITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 4
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1963
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D,C..
public hearings
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office
Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chairman of the sub-
committ^B, presiding.
Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas;
Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri; and August E. Johansen, of
Michigan.
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Ichord, and
Johansen.
Committee members also present : Representatives Donald C. Bruce,
of Indiana ; Henry C. Schadeberg, of Wisconsin ; and Jolin M. Ash-
brook, of Ohio. ( Appearances as noted. )
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; Frank S.
Tavenner, Jr., general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; and Louis
J. Russell, investigator.
Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.
The subcommittee is convened to continue hearings, begun here in
Washington on May 6 of this year, on certain matters and for the
legislative purposes set forth in a committee, resolution adopted April
24, 1963. I will read the text of that resolution for the record.
BE IT RESOLVED, that hearings by the Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties or a subcommittee thereof, be held in Washington, D.C., or at such other
place or places as the Chairmafi may determine, on such date or dates as the
Chairman may designate, relating to (a) Communist propaganda activities in
the United States conducted in support of the Communist regime in Cuba, or for
the purpose of advancing the policies and objectives of the world Communist
movement in Latin America generally, (b) the activities of United States citi-
zens acting on behalf ef, or in the interest of, foreign Communist principals, and
(c) foreign travel uadertaken by United States citizens in connection with such
activities and in violation of State Department travel regulations for the fol-
lowing legislative purposes :
1. To provide factual information to aid Congress in the disposition of pres-
ently pending legislation (including, but not limited to Sections 709 and 712 of
H.R. 9o8), or in the proposal of remedial legislation, in fulfillment of the direc-
827
828 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
tions contained in the mandate to the Committee by House Resolution 5 of Jan-
uary 9, 1963, and Public Law 601 of the 79th Congress.
2. The execution, bj4 the administrative agencies concerned, of the Foreign
Agents Registration Act of 1938, travel control laws (particularly Title 8 U.S.C.
1185), and regulations issued pursuant thereto, to a^ist the House in appraising
the administration of such laws and regulations.
3. Consideration of the advisability of amending Title 22 U.S.C. 611, by ex-
tending the definition of the terms "foreign principal" and "agent of a foreign
principal" so as to remove any doubt as to the true test of the agency relation-
ship or its application to activities within the intent of Congress as expressed in
thp Act
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the hearings may include any other mat-
ter within the jurisdiction of the Committee which it, or any subcommittee
thereof, appointed to conduct these hearings, may designate.
At the opening of the hearings in Washington, D.C., the chairman
read a very complete statement concerning the purposes and subject
matter of these hearings. I will now summarize that statement :
Over 12 years ago, on December 16, 1950, the President of the United
States proclaimed the existence of a national emergency. That proc-
lamation has not been altered or repealed by succeeding Presidents.
The emergency continues. Today we must be concerned not only about
communism in Korea and other distant countries, but in Cuba — just
90 miles from our shores.
Fidel Castro has converted Cuba into an advance Communist base
in this hemisphere. It is supplying inspiration, propaganda, train-
ing, communications, and technical assistance to Communist and revo-
lutionary groups in the whole of Latin America. It is also serving
as an outpost of the Soviet Union from which that country is directing
certain activities against the United States.
Central Intelligence Agency Director John McCone, in an appear-
ance before the House Committee on Foreign Affairs on February 19,
stated :
The Cuban effort at present is far more serious than the hastily organized
and ill-conceived raids that the bearded veterans of the Sierra Maestra led into
such Central American countries as Panama, Haiti, Nicaragua, and the Domini-
can Republic during the first 8 or 9 months Castro was in power.
Today, the Cuban effort is far more sophisticated, more covert, and more
deadly. In its professional trade craft, it shows guidance and training by
experienced Communist advisers from the Soviet bloc, including veteran Spanish
Communists.
Mr. McCone also pointed out that approximately 1,500 persons went
to Cuba during the year 1962 from other Latin Ainerican countries to
receive ideological indoctrination and guerrilla warfare training. He
said that some of the courses given in Cuba last as long as a year and
include intensive training in sabotage, espionage, and psychological
warfare and that the so-called visitors to Cuba also serve as couriers
for Soviet communications and the financing of Communist subversion
in various countries.
United States citizens, too, have been involved in these activities.
In an effort to prevent such activity by citizens of this country — and
because, following the severance of diplomatic relations, it could not
protect U.S. nationals in Cuba — the Department of State issued regu-
lations, effective January 16, 1961, prohibiting travel to Cuba by
citizens of the United States unless they possess specially validated
passports (22 CFR Pt. 53.3, as amended). These regulations are
based on the security provisions of the Immigration and Nationality
Act of 1952, regulating travel of citizens and aliens during war or
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 829
national emergencj', and empowering the President to impose re-
strictions and prohibitions, in addition to those provided by the
applicable section of the Act (8 U.S.C. 1185) .
Present regulations generally require no passport for travel in
North, Central, or South America. However, when a U.S. citizen
travels to Cuba, he is then required to have a passport for travel in
other nations of North, Central, or South America through which
he may pass in traveling to or from Cuba.
Despite the ban on travel to Cuba unless a specially validated pass-
port is obtained, committee investigation has determined that over
100 American citizens have traveled to Cuba without validation. Com-
mittee investigation has also revealed that U.S. citizens who had
traveled to Cuba, some with and some without validation, have been
rendering propaganda assistance to the Communist Cuban regime
after their return to this country.
On January 9, 1963, the late chairman of this committee intro-
duced H.E. 958, which was referred to the Committee on Un-American
Activities. Sections 709 and 712 of H.R. 958, dealing with passport
security and travel control and restrictions on the issuance and use
of passports, are directed particularly toward the travel of persons
associated with subversive organizations and with subversive objec-
tives or aims.
Other bills have been introduced in the House in an effort to resolve
these difficulties and have been referred to the Committee on the
Judiciarj^. The Committee on Un-American Activities has under-
taken this investigation and hearings pursuant to its mandate to con-
duct investigations that will aid the Congress in disposition of pending
legislation.
Today the committee will inquire particularly into the identity of
a person or persons who, in financial transactions relating to the visit
to Cuba last summer by 59 so-called students, used the name, "Jay
Jacobs" and/or "J," the initial, "Jacob" or "Jacobs."
The committee's September 12 hearings on this subject revealed that
the receipt given KLM Royal Dutch Airlines by Levi Laub for the
student groups' airline tickets bore the notation that they had been
paid for in Ottawa, Canada, by a "Mr. Jacob." The BOAC, British
Overseas Airways Corporation, airline receipt signed by Mr. Laub
identified the person who paid for them in Ottawa as Mr. "J." — that is,
the initial "J"— "Jacobs."
Further investigation by the committee indicates that a person us-
ing the name "Jay Jacobs" has since collected refunds from BOAC
and KLM Airlines for unused tickets.
I will now read for the record an excerpt from the minutes of an
executive session of the Committee on Un-American Activities desig-
nating the subcommittee to conduct these hearings :
The Committee on Un-Ameriean Activities met in executive session on Tues-
day, October 15, 196.3, in Room 225, Old House Office Building, at 3 p.m. The
following members were present : Edwin E. Willis, chairman ; William M. Tuck ;
Joe R. Pool ; Richard H. Ichord ; George F. Senner, Jr. ; Augxist E. Johansen ;
and Henry C. Schadeberg. The staff members present were: Francis J. Mc-
Namara, director ; Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle,
counsel ; and Donald T. Api)ell, chief investigator.
A motion was made by Mr. Senner, seconded by Mr. Tuck, and unanimously
carried that Mr. Joe R. Pool be designated as chairman and Mr. Richard H.
Ichord and Mr. August E. Johan.sen, asso<'iate members, be designated as a sub-
830 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
committee of the Committee on Un-American Activities to conduct the hearings
in Washington, D.C., October 16, 1963, at 10 a.m. on certein matters and for the
legislative purposes set forth in a committee resolution adopted April 24,
1963.
Mr. Nittle, will you call your first witness?
Mr, Nittle. Will Mr. Arnold Indenbaum, please come forward?
Mr. Pool. Will the witness stand and be sworn ? Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the t>uth, so help you God ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I do.
Mr. Pool. Do you aiRrm or swear ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I affirm.
Mr. Pool. Proceed Mr. Nittle.
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Chairman, this morning, I made a request
through Mr. Nittle that there be an executive session with respect to
my client.
Mr. Pool. Let us identify the witness and you as counsel.
TESTIMONY OF ARNOLD INDENBAUM, ACCOMPANIEDi BY COUNSEL,
STANLEY FAULKNER
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Indenbaum, would you state your full name and
residence for the record, please ?
Mr. Indenbaum. Arnold Indenbaum, 224 Riverside Drive, New
York.
Mr. Nittle. Would you spell your name in full for the benefit of the
reporter, please ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I-n-d-e-n-b-a-u-m.
Mr. Nittle. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I am.
Mr. NrrrLE. Would counsel kindly identify himself for the record,
stating his name and office address ?
Mr. Faulkner. Stanley F-a-u-1-k-n-e-r, 9 East 40th Street, New
York 14, New York.
Mr. Pool. IVff. Nittle, I think counsel wouM like to address the
Chair now.
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Chairman, this morning I requested through
Mr. Nittle that my client be provided, first, with an executive session
before appearing before this committee sitting here this morning.
Frankly, I feel that the same legislative purpose can be served by
whatever testimony he may give at such executive session. That is my
first request, and I have a second to make after ypu have ruled on
that one.
Mr. Pool. The Chair would like to state that the committee has re-
ceived a letter asking for a continuance of this hearing and the com-
mittee, with all members of this subcommittee present, met yesterday
and considered your request that this hearing be postponed because
your client, Mr. Indenbaum, was still under subpena by a Federal
grand jury in the Eastern District of New York.
I wish to inform you that aft«r full consideration of your request,
the committee voted, with all members of this subcommittee concur-
ring, that the hearing should not be postponed.
Let that show in the record.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 831
At this time, I "will order about a 5-minute recess to consider your
request, for an executive session.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Chairman, I would first like to inquire of counsel
as to the reason for the request for an executive session.
Mr. Pool. I will withdraw the statement about the recess. We are
still in session.
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Congressman, I think I indicated that any
testimony that my client may give in executive session or in public
session will serve the same legislative purpose that this committee
seeks to achieve and I cannot conceive of any reason to have him
publicly testify when he can give the same information, if he gives
any, in executive session.
Mr. Pool. The committee will now go into a short recesss.
^ A brief recess was taken at 10 :46 a.m.)
(The subcommittee reconvened at 10:51 a.m. The same members
were present as at convening of hearings.)
Mr. Pool. For the record, I would like to read from the rules of
the House, section 26 (g) of Rul6 XI :
All hearings conducted by standing committees or their subcommittees shall
be open to the public, except executive sessions for marking up bills or for voting
or where the committee by a majority vote orders an executive session.
"Wlien the committee met yesterday it also took under consideration
that, when you were informed that a postponement had been denied,
you might request that your client be heard in executive session.
The committee weighed the pros and cons of that matter carefully.
Because a request for an executive session had not yet been made — and
because it would be up to this subcommittee to decide the question
should it be made — the committee merely expressed its recommenda-
tion that, if a request for an executive session were made, it should be
denied.
Since you made your request for an executive session, the subcom-
mittee has considered it, and reconsidered the issues involved, and it is
our decision that this hearing should be held in public, rather than in
executive, session.
Mr. Faui^kner. Mr. Chairman, may I put in my second request and
then I will try to keep quiet for the rest of the hearing as much as I
possibly can.
I respectfully ask that my letters, dated October 4 and October 11,
1963, regarding this witness be made a part of the record. Those are
the letters which you just referred to, Mr. Chairman. This witness
has testified before a Federal grand jury sitting in the Eastern Dis-
trict of New York regarding the recent trip to Cuba by certain
individuals.
He has convinced me that he is still under subpena, subject to recall
at any time that this jury directs his appearance. In my opinion, I
believe it is wholly improper to question this witness under these
circumstances. It is a direct interference with the judicial processes
which, in this instance, have preference.
This witness cannot be ordered and directed by this committee to
testify to anything he has already testified to before the grand jury.
To order and direct this witness to testify to what he said before a
832 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
grand jury would be taken the same as destroying the secrecy of the
grand jury.^
Mr. Pool. We will decide the question of the admissibility of the
letters at a later date in the session.
Go ahead and proceed, Mr. Nittle.
(The subcommittee subsequently decided that, although the general
content of the letters had been revealed in the record, it would comply
with Mr. Faulkner's request and include the text of the letters in the
record. They are as follows:)
STAIiTLEY FATJLKNEB,
COUNSELOE AT LiAW
9 East 40th street, New York 16, N.Y.,
October 4, 1963.
Hon. Edwin E. Wilxis,
Chwirman, Un-American Activities Committee,
Eouse Office Building,
Washington, D.C.
Dear Congeessman Willis :
I have been retained by Mr. Arnold Indenbaum who was served with a subpoena
to appear before your Committee on October 16, 1963.
I would like to advise you that Mr. Indenbaum is still under subpoena before
a federal grand jury in the Eastern District of New York. It would seem to
the writer that in the circumstances it would not be appropriate for Mr. In-
denbaum to testify before your Ck)mmittee and you might consider whether you
might not wish to postpone his appearance until he is discharged from his sub-
poena before the said grand jury.
May I hear from you at the earliest possible date regarding the subpoena of
your Committee.
Sincerely yours,
/s/ Stanley Faulkneb.
Stanley Fattlknee,
COUNSELOE AT LaW
9 East 40th Street, New York 16, N.Y.,
October 11, 1963.
Hon. Edwin E. Wilms,
Chairman, Un-American Activities Committee,
House Office Building,
Washington, D.C, Re : Arnold Indenbaum.
Deae Congeessman Willis :
On October 4th I wrote you regarding the subpoena that was served upon my
client, Mr. Arnold Indenbaum which is returnable on October 16, 1963. In that
letter I advised you that Mr. Indenbaum is still under subpoena before a Federal
Grand Jury.
I have not heard from you regarding my request for an adjournment. Would
you please be kind enough to have your oflSce telephone me on Monday, October
14th so that I may know whether there will be an adjournment.
Sincerely yours.
/s/ Stanley Faulkneb.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Indenbaum, would you please state the date of
your birth ?
Mr. Indenbaum. October 15, 1927, in the United States.
Mr. Nittle. Were you born in Brooklyn, New York ?
Mr. Indenbaum. That is right.
Mr. Nittle. Have you in 1950 and 1951 resided at 763 Ocean Park-
way, Brooklyn, New York ?
^ Relative to this clalmv see statement of chairman, part 3, pp. 702, 703.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 833
Mr. Indenbaum. I believe I might have. I don't recall the exact
dates, but I lived there for a number of years.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate the extent of your formal education,
giving the dates and places of attendance at educational institutions
and any degrees you may have received ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I received a high school degree from Midwood
High School. I went to Brooklyn College for approximately 4 years
from 1947 to 1951.
I believe my term in high school was from — ended in 1945 — 1941
to 1945.
Mr. NiTTLE. That was the Midwood High School in Brooklyn ?
Mr. Indenbaum. That is right, and Brooklyn College.
Mr, NiTTLE. What is your present occupation ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I am an unemployed railroad worker.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you been employed since 1953 as a brakeman on
the New York Central Railroad ?
Mr. Indenbaum. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. I believe you were furloughed on September 2, 1963.
Is that correct ?
Mr, Indenbaum. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, I assume that you are aware that the
committee is presently investigating Communist propaganda activities
in the United States conducted in support of the Communist regime
in Cuba, and foreign travel undertaken by United States citizens in
connection with such activities.
The committee has specifically inquired, in the course of these hear-
ings, into the travel to Cuba of 50-odd alleged students, commencing
this June, undertaken under the sponsorship of a group called the
Permanent Student Committee for Travel to Cuba.
In the course of the investigation, testimony was heard that the
expenses for this travel to Cuba were allegedly advanced by the Cuban
Federation of University Students. The committee deems it of im-
portance to determine the circumstances under which the expenses
for this trip were assumed and paid.
We believe that you can assist us in this investigation.
Now, Mr. Indenbaum, are you aware of the fact that a person
using the name of "Jay Jacob" or "Jay Jacobs" on June 10, and 11,
1963, deposited the sum of $22,739.20 in American currency with the
BOAC office in Ottawa, Canada, for 40-odd reservations for trans-
po ation to London and Paris ?
IVa . Indenbaum. I would like to first state, since my lawyer has
already indicated that I am under subpena by the grand jury and
they are investigating some violation of some law and since I am
involved, it is quite obvious to me and apparent that any answers I
givej since I haven't the slightest idea what this committee is in-
vestigating, what law is being proposed to investigate, or what law
is being violated, it is quite obvious that any answer I may give may
be incriminating.
It may not be. That is one part of my answer.
The other part of my answer is, since this committee does not divulge
its specific purpose in calling me to trial and asking me specific ques-
tions, that I can only deduce from what has been said by the com-
mittee and from what has been going on here that the nature and
834 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
the conduct is entirely political and has very little to do with legisla-
tive processes.
Therefore, I wish to state that it is this committee that is in viola-
tion of the laws of this country and, specifically, the Constitution of
this country by attempting to prevent American students, Americans
and citizens, from exercising their right to travel, and the purpose
that they are trying to do, that is, to prevent Americans from finding
out the specific nature of the Cuban regime and thereby informing
the American people that what this Government and this committee
says about Cuba is an outrageous distortion and lie.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Indenbaum, counsel sisked you a question, and it is
all right for you to give your reasons for your answer, but you are
getting into a long-winded discourse here that is not responsive to
his question.
Will you answer his question ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. More specifically I must say that I refuse to an-
swer that question unless it can be shown that it serves a legislative
purpose.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, you have heard the opening statement
of the chairman ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I have.
Mr. Pool. For the record, I believe the witness was late in arriving
at the hearing and I do not believe he heard all of the opening state-
ment. Were you here when the opening statement was read ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I did come late, but I think I heard a good por-
tion of it.
Mr. Pool. Then, I think I had better read it to you again.
(The opening statement was reread by Mr. Pool. See pp. 827-829.)
Mr. Pool. "Today the committee" — I believe that you were here as
I read the constituting resolution setting up the subcommittee?
Mr. Indenbaum. Yes.
Mr. Pool. I will not read that further. That serves the purpose
for the hearing.
The committee has considered the Delaney and Hutcheson cases
and feels that the Congress has the power to interrogate you.
Mr. Indenbaum. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask you a question
with respect to what you just read.
Mr. Pool. We have asked you a question and we want an answer
to it.
Mr. NrTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be directed to
answer the outstanding question.
Mr. Pool. You will answer the question.
Mr., Indenbaum. Since you read this statement to my previous
answer I would like some clarification under point one.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness is attempt-
ing to be argumentative and I suggest the Chair again remind him
that he is directed to answer the question.
Mr. Pool. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Indenbaum. I have every intention of answering the question.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Do you plead the fifth amend-
ment on this question we just asked you ?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 835
Mr, Indenbaum. I will answer the question in a way that I will
answer it, but you read a statement to me to explain the nature of this
hearing and you read that one of the reasons was disposition of section
709 and 712 of H.R. 958. I haven't the slightest knowledge of what
those laws are.
Mr. Pool. You have a lawyer there who can advise you. I direct
you to answer the question for the last time.
Mr. NiTTLE. I think also, Mr. Chairman, the witness should be
advised that in the event he fails to answer, or refuses to do so, with-
out giving legal justification, he will place himself in the position
of possible contempt prosecution.
Mr. Pool. You are so advised and you are directed to answer the
question for the last time.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. Since this committee refuses to clarify to me what
its position is and what particular laws it is investigating and as they
pertain to me, if they do, and for the reasons previously stated by my
lawyer and myself, I now exercise my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Counsel, to the next question.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbamn, are you aware of the fact that on
June 11, 1963, under the name of "Jay Jacobs" an individual
deposited the sum of $13,436.80 in American currency with the KLM
offices in Ottawa for 26 reservations for transportation to Paris via
Amsterdam ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I believe that question is a reiteration of the first
one and I merely repeat the same thing I said before.
Mr. Pool. You are relying on the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Indenbaum. For my reasons previously stated.
Mr. Pool. And you are pleading the fifth amendment now ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I am.
Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you aware, Mr. Indenbaum, that on or about
August 26 and 27, 1963, a person identifying himself as Jay Jacobs
and with a North Carolina driver's license titled to that name ap-
peared at the New York offices of BOAC for a refund due for eight
unused reservations and at the KLM offices for a refund due on five
unused reservations ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, have you ever used or been known by
the name of "Jay Jacob" or "Jay Jacobs ?"
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that under the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Pool. Proceed.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, I am now going to request of the
chairman that you be permitted to stand aside while the committee
interrogates other witnesses whose testimony, in part at least, will
relate to your activities, after which you will be recalled for further
testimony.
836 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Pool. With those instructions in mind, you will temporarily
step aside. You will remain in the room. Do not leave the room.
Mr. Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would June Gard please come forward ?
Mr. Pool. Would you stand and be sworn? Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miss Gard. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JUNE ANITA GAKD
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you please state your full name for the record,
please ?
Miss Gard. June Anita Gard.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you spell it, please, for the benefit of the
reporter ?
Miss Gard. G-a-r-d.
Mr. NiiTLE. You are a resident of the State of New York, are you
not?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. NiiTLE. By whom are you presently employed ?
Miss Gard. By KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you employed by KLM Airlines at the main of-
fice, 609 Fifth Avenue, in May of 1963 ?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you recall meeting a person known to you as Mr.
Levi Lee Laub in May of 1963 ?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you describe the circumstances under which
you met him?
Miss Gard. He came to the office accompanied by two other gentle-
men and requested seats to Paris via Amsterdam for approximately
40 students at the time. Then the names finally came down to ap-
proximately 26.
Mr. NiTTLE. Approximately how many times did you see Mr. Laub
visit the KLM offices and discuss airline ; reservations for a flight to
Paris by his group ?
Miss Gard. At least five times.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Gard I hand you a photograph of five persons.
The photograph is credited to the UPI. It was taken September 30,
1963, and we have marked it for identification as "Gard Exhibit No. 1."
Can you identify any of the persons appearing in the photograph ?
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Miss Gard. The one in the center.
Mr. NiTTLE. I beg your pardon ?
Miss Gard. The one in the center is Levi Lee Laub.
Mr, NiTTLE. You are pointing to the person who is the third from
the left in the photograph ?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. You identify him as Levi Lee Laub whom you just
identified in your testimony ?
Miss Gard, Yes.
(Photograph marked "Gard Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 837
Mr. NiTTLE. Subsequent to the appearance of Mr. Laub in the offices
of IvLM in May of 1963, did you have occasion to discuss the student
travel with a Mr. Jacob ?
Miss Gard. To discuss the student travel, no.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you have occasion to meet a Mr. Jacob in connec-
tion with airline reservations at KLM ?
Miss Gard. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you meet a person named Mr. Jacob or identified
to you as such ?
Miss Gard. No, not at that time.
Mr. NiTTLE. Subsequent to June 1963, when did you meet him ?
Miss Gard. In August, the last part of August.
Mr. NiTTLE. Of what year ?
Miss Gard. 1963.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you explain the circumstances under which you
met a Mr. Jacobs ?
Miss Gard. He came to the office and applied for a refund for the
four or live tickets which were unused when the students traveled
to Cuba, via Paris.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was he accompanied by anyone ?
Miss Gard. Yes. He was accompanied by someone I met previously
with Mr, Laub.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was that person identified to you ?
Miss Gard. He identified himself to me previously when he ap-
peared with Mr. Laub as a Mr. Randolph.
Mr. NiTTLE. In what way did you come to know Mr. Jacob?
Miss Gard. When he introduced himself to me at the office. That is
the first inclination I had of who he was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Prior to Mr. Jacob introducing himself to you, had
you received any contact by telephone or otherwise from a person
identifying liimself as Mr. Jacob?
Miss Gard. Yes. When the tickets were purchased in Ottawa, I re-
ceived a call from the KLM office. The party on the other end of the
line identified himself as Mr. Jacob. He was there to pay for the
tickets for the students that Mr. Laub had made travel arrangements
for.
Mr. NiTTLE. Could you tell us wher you received that call from
Ottawa?
Miss Gard. I don't know the specific date. It was in June of 1963.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you receive any other telephone calls from any
person identifying himself as Mr. Jacob after this initial June 1963
telephone call ?
Miss Gard. Yes, shortly after the students had left, a Mr. Jacob
called and applied for a refund and requested that the check be sent
to his bank account.
I asked for the number of the bank account, and he said that he had
several and he would call me back in a few days.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Gard, have you had an opportunity to view the
first witness who testified just prior to you and who identified himself
as Arnold Indenbaum ?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Had you, prior to today, known him as Arnold Inden-
baum?
98-766 O — 63— pt. 4 3
838 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Miss Gabd. In the previous investigation of this matter the name
was mentioned to me,,yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Who is Arnold Indenbaum ?
Miss Gard. The gentleman who identifies himself as Mr. Jay Jacob.
He was identified to me at the time.
Mr, Pool. When did he identify himself as Mr. Jacob ?
Miss Gard. I believe it was August 26 when he came to apply for
the refund in our office.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Gard, could you tell us whether you had any
conversation with Mr. Jacob on the telephone in June, when he
requested refund, relating to the necessity lor his appearing at your
office?
Miss Gard. We had no indication of who he was. We did know
that the receipt was signed by a Mr. Jacob in Ottawa, or that the
money had been received from Mr. Jacob, excuse me. We needed
identification from this gentleman to prove that he was Mr. Jacob
in order to receive the refund check.
I requested that he come to the office and present his identification.
Mr. NiTTLE. Following that call he did come, I believe you testified,
in August ?
Miss Gard. In August, yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. What identification did he give you that he was Mr.
Jacob?
Miss Gard. It was a driver's license.
Mr. NiTTLE. He exhibited a driver's license to you ? Do you recol-
lect whether you observed the State of issuance of that license ?
Miss Gard. No, that I am not positive of.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you recollect seeing the license ?
Miss Gard. Yes, and seeing the picture on it.
Mr. NiTTLE. What name appeared upon this license?
Miss Gard. Jay Jacob.
Mr. NiTTLE. The staff has no further questions of this witness.
Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. Call your next witness, Mr.
CJounsel.
Mr. NiTTLB. Would Peter Gumpert come forward, please ?
Mr. Pool. Would you stand and be sworn ? Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, tlie whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Gumpert. I do.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF PETER GUMPERT
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name and residence for the
record, please ?
Mr. Gumpert. My name is Peter Gumpert, G-u-m-p-e-r-t.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Grumpert?
Mr. Gumpert. No, I am not.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you desire to be represented by counsel ?
Mr. Gumpert. I do not.
Mr. NiTTLE. You are aware that you are entitled to be accompanied
by (X)unsel according to the rules of this committee ?
Mr. Gumpert. I am aware of this, yes.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 839
Mr. NiTTLE. Will you state the date and place of your birth ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes. I was bom May 5, 1934, in Bielefeld, Germany.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you spell the name of the place in Germany
where you were born for the benefit of the reporter ?
Mr. GuMPERT. It is B-i-e-1-e-f-e-l-d.
Mr. NiTTLE. When did you enter the United States ?
Mr. GuinpERT. In 1938.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you a citizen of the United States ?
Mr. Gtjmpert. Yes, I am.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate the extent of your formal education,
giving the dates and places of attendance at educational institutions
and any degrees you have received ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes. I went to high school in Yonkers, New York,
graduated there in 1950 and went to the University of North Carolina
from 1951 to 1954, received a bachelor's degree from the University of
North Carolina in 1960. I have attended graduate school at Stanford
University and at the University of North Carolina since then.
Mr. NiTTLE. What years did you attend Stanford ?
Mr. Gtoipert. 1960 to 1962.
Mr. Nittle. And you have been at the University of North Caro-
lina since, I assume, the fall term of 1962 ?
Mr. Gumpert. That is correct.
Mr. Nittle. Did you state your present residence ?
Mr. Gumpert. No, I didn't.
Mr. Nittle. Would you do so ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes. It is Homestead Road, Route #2, Chapel Hill,
North Carolina.
Mr. Nittle. Did you have any period of military service, Mr. Gum-
pert?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nittle. Would you state what it was ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, sir. I was in the United States Air Force from
1955 until 1958.
Mr. Nittle. What rank did you attain ?
Mr. Gumpert. I was discharged as a first lieutenant.
Mr. Nittle. Are you presently in a reserve status ?
Mr. Gumpert. No, sir, I am not.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Gumpert, were you present during the testimony
of the first witness who identified himself as Arnold Indenbaum ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, I was.
Mr. Nittle. Have you previously met him ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, I have.
Mr. Nittle. By what name or names was he known to you prior to
today ?
Mr. Gumpert. Prior to today he was known to me as Arnie or
Arnold, and I did not recall until subsequent to our meeting what his
last name was.
Mr. Pool. "Arnie" or "Arnold," is that what you said ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nittle. When did you first meet Arnie ?
Mr. Gumpert. I believe it was on the 25th of July of 1963.
Mr.IcHORD. 1963?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes.
840 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
Mr. Pool. Would you talk just a little louder, please?
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you ever known Arnie as Jay Jacob or Jay
Jacobs ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No, sir, I have not.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did he ever introduce himself by that name ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did anyone else introduce him by that name ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Not to me.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you ever hear that name mentioned in your
presence ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Not while he was in Chapel Hill. I have heard it
once since then before he came to this room.
Mr. NiTTLE. When did you first hear that name ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I first heard that name when I was asked where I had
ever heard that name by two special agents of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Gumpert, according to the records of the U-Drive-
It Auto Company, Durham, North Carolina, on July 26, 1963, you
rented a 1962 Ford Sedan bearing North Carolina license number 29C.
Would you tell the committee, in detail, the circumstances leading up
to the rental and the purpose of it ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes. Mr. Indenbaum came to Chapel Hill
Mr. Pool. A little louder, please.
Mr. Gumpert. Mr. Indenbaum came to Chapel Hill on, I believe,
the 25th of July 1963. He was introduced to me as an acquaintance
of my then roommate, Mr. Nicholas Bateson, and I believe he spent
the night, that night, the night of July 25, at the house which Mr.
Bateson and I occupied at the time.
Mr. NiTTLE. You say that you were introduced to him on the night
of July 25?
Mr. Gumpert. I believe so.
Mr. NiTTLE. By your roommate Nicholas Bateson ?
Mr. Gumpert. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is spelled B-a-t-e-s-o-n ?
Mr. Gumpert. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. That was at the residence ?
Mr. Gumpert. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. Where was the residence located ?
Mr. Gumpert. At Box 141-B, Route #1, Durham, North Carolina.
Mr. NiTTLE. Proceed.
Mr. Gumpert. I don't recall whether it was on the night of July
25 or on the following morning, but at some time I was made aware
that Mr. Indenbaum required a driver's license in the State of North
Carolina. On the following day, Mr. Indenbaum asked me to aid him
in obtaining a driver's license.
I agreed to do so, and I was asked whether my car could be used
for this. I declined the use of my car. It was then suggested to
me by Mr. Indenbaum that we might rent an automobile.
I agreed to help Mr. Indenbaum do so. At that point we pro-
ceeded to Chapel Hill to the Hertz licensee there at a Texaco station,
who informed us that they didn't have automobiles available there at
that time. I agreed to drive the first witness to Durham, North Caro-
lina, to obtain a car. We went to Durham, and I rented the car under
my name at the Hertz office in Durham.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 841
We then drove both cars back to Chapel Hill, I driving my car and
the first witness driving the Hertz car. We proceeded to Chapel Hill.
I parked my car and drove the Hertz car to Carrboro, North Caro-
lina, where the office of the driver's license examiner is.
When we had arrived there, he, Amie, went to take his driver's test,
during which time I stood outside and waited for him.
He then came out with the driver's license examiner and took the
practical portion of the driver's test after which, when he returned, he
and I returned the car to the Texaco station in Chapel Hill.
I am quite sure that Amie paid for the rental of the car at that
point. Subsequent to that time, I did not see the first witness, Mr.
Indenbaum.
Mr. N1TTI.E. Now, was there any reason, brought to your attention
or knowledge by Mr. Indenbaum or by your roommate, Nicholas Bate-
son, as to why Bateson did not assist Mr. Indenbaum in obtaining this
license ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes, there was. One reason was that Mr. Bateson's
car could not be made available for the purpose. There was at that
time, I recall, some difficulty in the registration of Mr. Bateson's
automobile due to the fact that he had misplaced or lost the title to
it. Furthermore, I believe that Mr. Bateson was occupied with some
research at the time Mr. Indenbaum wanted lo obtain a license.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did Bateson participate in any of these discussions
between you and Indenbaum as to who should assist him in obtaining
the license ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I don't entirely recall.
Mr. NrnxE. Did Bateson ask you to do this for him ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No, he didn't.
Mr. NrrrLE. I hand you a photostatic copy of rental agreement
Number LA 650306, dated July 26, 1963, which appears to be executed
between you and the U-Drive-It Auto Co. I ask you if your signature
appears thereon ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes, sir, it does.
(Document marked "Gumpert Exhibit No. 1." See next page.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Looking at the agreement, is the vehicle which was
rented to you identified thereon as a 1962 Ford sedan bearing North
Carolina license plate 29C ?
Mr. GuMPERT. It is identified as a Ford sedan bearing license num-
ber 29C, yes. I don't see the year on here.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long have you and Bateson lived at Route 1, Box
141-B, Durham, at which you ment Arnie?
Mr. Gumpert. We had lived there together. I had moved in with
Mr. Bateson, I believe, in October of 1962.
Mr. NiTTLE. And resided there continuously from that date to and
including July 26, 1963 ?
Mr. Gumpert. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long thereafter ?
Mr. Gumpert. Not very long.
Mr. Nittle. Where does Mr. Bateson now reside ?
Mr. Gumpert. He resides at, I believe, 119 Longview Street, Chapel
Hill.
Mr, NiTTLE. You are no longer roommates ?
Mr. Gumpert. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. But had you been roommates continuously since 1959 ?
Mr. Gumpert. No, sir.
842
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
GuMPHERT Exhibit No. 1
HEt
H.C
,:><.
AR LiCENSefi
RENTAL AGREEMENT
LAf^Sn?(iR
IWJfclVEJT AUTO COMPANY
DUS.H,*M, ') C
J.
f-l , li
,\ c
.; ^^^>'; ^ L^
I "in" I !? 0 / r
I OUT / 6> <^ f t
L
vr ^v^c
,-> '^ INITIAL, ..^^
-V i HERE 4^^
^/.
->:, .i
( AC 1 NAMf
LA650306
^
J* .-?6
HERTZ
ruSTOMf ft r- ( HflU_ta*».A».
bocfc — SAffty?
PEAD TERMS & CONDITIONS ON PAGE 1 (OFHER SIDE)
I
9, /
J^
Mr. NiTTLE. How long have you been his roommate ?
Mr. GuMPERT. From October 1962 until approximately midsummer
of 1963. . , . 1 TVT- 1 1
Mr. NiTTLE. Wlien did you first become acquamted with J\ icholas
Bateson ?
Mr. GuMPERT. In 1959.
Mr. NiTTLE. Where was that?
Mr. GuMPERT. At the University of North Carolina.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 843
Mr. NiTTLE. Were yon aware of the leadersliip role played by Mr.
Nicholas Bateson in the formation of an organization known as Pro-
gressive Labor at Chapel Hill, N.C. ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No, I was not.
Mr. Nrrri^. Had you at any time been introduced to a Jacob Rosen
by Mr. Bateson?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes, I had.
Mr. NiTTLE. When did you first meet Jacob Rosen ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I am not sure, but it was, I believe, either late 1962
or early 1963.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was any fact brought to your attention as to whether
Rosen was affiliated with any Communist group ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No such factors were brought to my attention.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was any fact brought to your attention that he was
affiliated with, or an organizer of. Progressive Labor?
Mr. GuMPERT. I am not sure whether that was brought to my atten-
•tion verbally.
Mr. NiTTLE. How did that come to your attention ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I am not quite sure.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was that fact communicated to you by Nicholas
Bateson ?
Mr. GuMPERT. Yes, I believe he did. I couldn't tell you for sure.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you a member of, or affiliated with, Progressive
Labor ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I am not.
Mr. NiTTLE. With the New Left Club ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No, sir.
Mr. Pool. Have you ever been ?
Mr. GuMPERT. I have never been.
Mr. NiTTLE. Had Jacob Rosen resided at the residence of Nicholas
Bateson for any period of time ?
Mr. GuMPERT. No, sir, not to my knowledge more than one night.
This might have happened once or twice where he stayed for just
one night.
Mr. NiTTLE. The staff has no further questions of this witness.
Mr. Pool. You are excused.
Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Durane U. Sherman.
Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about
to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Sherman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF DURANE U. SHERMAN
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name and residence for the
record, please ?
Mr. Sherman. Durane U. Sherman.
Mr. NiTTLE. Spell your first name.
Mr. Sherman. D-u-r-a-n-e ; Route 1, Fuquay.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state the date and place of your birth ?
Mr. Sherman. Orange County, North Carolina, June -3, 1929.
844
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat is your occupation and by whom are you
employed ?
Mr. Sherman. I am employed by the North Carolina Department
of Motor Vehicles as a license examiner.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you thus employed on July 26, 1963 '?
Mr. Sherman. Was I in the employ of the State at that time?
Mr. NnTLE. Were you employed as a driver examiner on July 26,
1963 ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. I hand you a document titled "Application for North
Carolina Driver's License," official form DL-240, upon which the
signature of the applicant "Jay Jacobs" appears and to wliich you,
Durane Sherman, as examiner, witnessed his signature.
Did you receive and process this application on July 26, 1963 ?
Mr, Sherman. Yes, I did.
(Document marked "Sherman Exhibit No. 1" follows.)
Sherman Exhibit No. 1
iW DL-MO
APPUCATION for north CAROUNA DRIVER'S LICENSE
<
udIdct Bxmifaier UAmlncr
RESTRICTIONS:
Jay (None) Jacob a
Rt. # 1 - Box 141-B
Stovct or Ra«tc MAr^m
Digham. N. C.
Wdifct
\^_
Color
Hair
BR
Lieen*e Nambcr
123051
No
I II i0^ 1. Have you ever been licensed as an operator or cfaaof-
feur? When Where
I \\^^2. Did yoQ ever have an operator's or chaoffear's license
canceled, denied, revoked, or suspended ?
When 19 Where
I [[^•Ib. Have yoD any physical impairments? Describe
I ll ^^^ Have you ever suffered from epilipsy, heart trouble,
paralysis, fainting, dizzy spells, been addicted to
narcotic drugs or intoxicating liquor? State which
Are you now cured
1 l( ^^nS- Have you ever been committed to or entered an in-
stitution for alcoholism or as a mental patient?
Wheft Name of institution and location
Were you discharged as cured-
VThen.
r^
a^
4a.'C'a^
Si^aturc of Applicant
Slsnstnre of Parent (Goardian) of Uin
2-2-32
Ho. Dot Yoi
-8
Ina.
HZ
^ m^^v T>ox
_ AFFIDAVIT OF APPUCATION
niie above aigM^ applicant statea that the information
le^^^ornrand subscribed to before me
"iy of .j^jL_
, ^y of ^ 1_
>rw Notary Pablic— C. 0.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
845
Sherman Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
J«^oobs, Jay (None)
DUPLICATE
OR
RENEWAL
DATES
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate to the committee the step-by-st^ep
procedures followed by you from the time the applicant named on that
form, Jay Jacobs, entered your office?
Mr. Sherman. Mr. Jacobs entered the office somewhere between 11
and 11 :30 and quarter of 12 on July 26, 1963, desiring a North Carolina
driver's license. At that time I advised the individual that it was near
lunch hour and we may not have enough time to complete the practical
part of the test, the driving test; that I would appreciate it if he would
come back at 1 o'clock and I could run him through without too much
difficulty. At that time he insisted that I give him the test before I
left for my lunch hour. He also stated that he had a rental car and
he didn't want to run the cost of it up too much for the purpose of
taking his test.
846 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES EST U.S.
Of course, I got him to affix his signature here to this application
and asked the preliminary questions which are outlined here:
"Have you ever been licensed to operate a motor vehicle before?"
And his answer was, "No."
Mr. NiTTLE. He answered that he had not previously been licensed
as an operator ?
Mr. Sherman. That is right, in North Carolina or any other State.
Mr. NiiTLE. What response did he give as to his birthday ?
Mr. Sherman. He gave me February 2, 1932.
Mr. NiTTLE. Proceed.
Mr. Sherman. Upon filling out the application, on which I re-
corded the make and model of the car, the result of the eye test, his
apparent physical condition, the results of the sign test and the results
of the mental part of the test, I then typed this form up using the
name of "Jay," no middle name, "Jacobs," Box 141-B, Durham,
North Carolina ; white ; hair, brown ; weight, 150 ; birth date, 2-2-32 ;
male ; 5-8 ; color of eyes, hazel.
Upon completion of this form, we proceeded to the car for the
purpose of the practical examination. I found a 1962 Ford bearing
the license plate number North Carolina registration 29C. It took
approximately 10 minutes to complete this driving test. . .
At the completion of the test, at which 10 points were deducted, I
then wrote him a receipt and collected his fee, and he was through.
Mr. NiTTLE. Following the examination and road test, does the
applicant receive his license directly from you?
Mr. Sherman. No, sir. It is not a license until the application is
forwarded to the Department, checked, numbered, and signed by the
Commissioner of Motor Vehicles.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was a license subsequently issued to Mr. Jay Jacobs ?
Mr. Sherman. To the best of my knowledge. I have no way of
knowing that because it does not come through my office again.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do the facts appear upon the application as to
whether or not a license has been issued to him upon that application ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir, it does. There is a number which was
assigned in the Raleigh office. The license would bear the number
of 1230513.
Mr. Johansen. Mr. Chairman, if I may interrupt, it is my under-
standing that the application is forwarded to the State Department of
Motor Vehicles and the actual license issued directly to the individual.
Mr. Sherman. It is mailed out by the department.
Mr. Johansen. What address did this individual give for the for-
warding of the actual license?
Mr. Sherman. He gave me Route 1, Box 141-B, Durham.
Mr. Johansen. Do you, under North Carolina law, issue a tempo-
rary license?
Mr. Sherman. We issue a temporary receipt, yes, sir, which is
honored there for a period of maybe 30 days, more or less, while this
can be processed.
Mr. Johansen. Thank you.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Sherman, were you present today when the first
witness testified, who identified himself as Arnold Indenbaum ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, I was.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 847
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you have an opportunity to observe him?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Had you ever seen this person before?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. ^Yho is he?
Mr. Sherman. Jay Jacobs.
Mr. NiTTLE. The individual who appeared at your office on July
26, 1963, and made application for this license?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Counsel, would you like to introduce that in evidence
now?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the applica-
tion into evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it will be received.
I believe you had another exhibit from a previous witness which you
want-ed introduced into evidence.
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce that, also.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it may be received.
You are excused.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. Will Mr. Nicholas Bateson come forward, please?
Mr. Pool. Stand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Bateson. I do.
rESTIMONY OF mCHOLAS BATESON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
IRA GOLLOBIN
Mr. NmxjE. Will you state your full name and residence, for the
record ?
Mrt Bateson. My full name is Nicholas Bateson. My residence
is 118 East Longview.
Mr. NiTTLE. Will you repeat that address, and speak up, please?
Mr. Bateson. My address is 118 East Longview, Chapel Hill, North
Carolina.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes, I am.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would counsel identify himself for the record, stating
his name and office address, please ? ' i
Mr. GoLLOBiN. Ira Gollobin, 1441 Broadway, New^ York 18, N.Y.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you a permanent resident of Chapel Hill, or do you
maintain a domicile in New York State ?
Mr. Bateson. I am a permanent resident of Chapel Hill.
Mr. NiTTLE. You have previously resided in New York, is that
correct?
Mr. Bateson. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. At no time ?
Mr. Bateson. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state when and where you were bom ?
Mr. Bateson. I was born in London, England, on September 29,
1935.
848 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES IN U.S.
Mr, NnTLE. When did you enter the United States?
Mr. Bateson. In 1958.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did yon come to the United States as an immigrant or
for temporary residence?
Mr. Bateson. As an immigrant.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you presently a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Bateson. No, I am not,
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you made application for citizenship ?
Mr. Bateson. No, I have made no application.
Mr. NrrrLE. Beg pardon ?
Mr. Bateson. I have not made an application.
Mr. NiTTLE. You have not made an application ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes, I have not made an application.
Mr. Nittle. Would you relate the extent of your formal education ?
Mr. Bateson. I went to an English prep school Knoll, and I went to
an English public school, which is the equivalent of an American pub-
lic school, in Brighton, Then from 1954 to 1957, I went to Oxford
College, from which I received a B,A, degree.
Mr, I^ooL, Counsel, could the witness speak into the microphone,
please. The committee can't hear you.
Mr. NnTLE. After coming to the United States, did you have further
schooling?
Mr, Bateson. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. Would you state what that was ?
Mr. Bateson. I am a graduate student and have been, since 1960,
at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and for one semester
in 1959 1 was a specialist at that school.
Mr. Nittle. How do you support yourself ?
Mr. Bateson. I am a research assistant.
Mr, Nittle, You are employed by the university ?
Mr, Bateson. Yes.
Mr, Nittle, Have you had any other employment since entering the
United States in 1958 ?
Mr, Bateson, Yes, I worked for a year as a librarian.
Mr. Nittle. Where?
Mr. Bateson. In New Haven, Connecticut, at Yale University.
Mr. Nittle. Did you have any other employment?
Mr. Bateson. No.
Mr. Ntttle. Mr, Bateson, do you know an individual by the name
of Arnold Indenbamn ?
Mr, Bateson, I feel that due to the fact that has been brought
out today, that Mr. Indenbaum is part of a; legal judicial hearing,
and so far the proceedings today have been conducted so far in the
form of a judicial legal hearing, it is impossible for me to answer
that question before this legislative body, and I feel, therefore, I must
decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Pool. You are refusing to answer the question on the grounds
of the fifth amendment?
Mr. Bateson. I understand that is the appropriate plea.
Mr. Pool. You are refusing on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U^. 849
Mr. NriTLE. Do you honestly believe if you were to testify truth-
fully as to whether or not you know a person by the name of Arnold
Indenbaum, that that would incriminate you ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Or might subject you to a criminal prosecution ?
Mr. Bateson. I think that there is a possibility. I don't know if
there is a real possibility that it will incriminate me.
Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question, Counsel.
Mr. NmLE. Did Arnold Indenbaum, the first witness to appear
here today, who identified himself as such, visit you on July 26, 1963 ?
Mr. Bateson. Again I must decline to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Pool, On the grounds previously stated ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question.
Mr. NnTLE. There was testimony received here from Peter Gum-
pert that a person known to him as Arnie — and who has identified
himself as Arnold Indenbaum on the witness stand and has been
identified by the witness, Mr. Sherman, as Jay Jacobs — appeared at
Durham, North Carolina, in your company on July 25, 1963.
Mr. Bateson. Who was this, and what was the date ?
Mr. NriTLE. July 25, 1963, at Chapel Hill.
Mr. Bateson. Who appeared with me?
Mr. NnTLE. Arnold Indenbaum himself, known as Jay Jacobs.
Mr. Bateson. Again I must decline to answer. I cannot answer
any questions about Mr. Indenbaum.
Mr. Pool. You refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes, sir.
Mr. NnTLE. Did Arnold Indenbaum on or about July 25, 1963,
discuss with you Ms need for a North Carolina driver's license?
Mr. Bateson. I have told you already that I cannot answer any
question concerning Mr. Arnold Indenbaum on the groimds previously
stated.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Nittle.
Mr. Nittle. Did Arnold Indenbaum at that time inform you that he
would represent himself as Jay Jacobs for the purpose of obtaining a
North Carolina driver's license ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Pool. You what?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination. I decline, as I declined
before, on the same grounds.
Mr. Nittle. It is the committee's information that a North Caro-
lina driver's license was issued to Jay Jacobs on July 29, 1963. This
was mailed to your box, Route 1, Box 141-B, Durham. Did you mail
the license on to Arnold Indenbaima ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Pool. You make the same declination ?
Mr. Bateson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. You will have to speak up. We can't hear you.
850 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. Peter Gumpert testified that you talked to him about
Amie, who has been identified as Arnold Indenbaum. Did you tell
Gumpert, on or about July 25, 1963, or July 26, 1963, the facts as you
knew them about Arnold Indenbaum ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was Gumpert a roommate of yours at that time?
Mr. Bateson. Since Gumpert is not the subject of any legal investi-
gation, I think I am free to say "Yes," he was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was he a friend ?
Mr. Bateson. He was a friend, a colleague.
Mr. NiTTLE. If Gumpert was a friend, did you tell him what was
the real purpose of enlisting his support to obtain a driver's license
for Indenbaum ?
Mr. Bateson. Since this again relates to Indenbaum, I am unable
to answer that question, and I make the same declination as before.
Mr. NiTFLE. Did you, according to the testimony of Peter Gumpert,
involve Gumpert, without his knowledge, in this fraudulent perform-
ance of Jay Jacobs, also known as Arnold Indenbaum ?
Mr. Bateson. I think my answer has to be the same as before since
you are again involving Indenbaum.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Bateson, did you know that Arnold Indenbaum
intended to pose as Jay Jacobs for the purpose of receiving a refund
of travel funds from KLM and BO AC ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. Are you personally familiar with the circumstances and
the identity of the individuals who put up the money in Ottawa,
Canada, in July of 1963?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. If you are not familiar with the circumstances and had
nothing to do with those individuals and truthfully said so, how
could that possibly incriminate you ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Bateson, I show you a photostatic copy of the Uni-
versity of North Carolina student paper. Daily Tar Heel^ of Novem-
ber 29, 1962, which we have marked for identification as "Bateson
Exhibit No. 1." You will note an article appearing there titled "PLC
[Progressive Labor Club] Members Hold To Plan For Cuba Trip."
It identifies you, Nick Bateson, as planning to accompany the student
group to Cuba last December. Is this a correct report ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr, Nittle. Does the article correctly report you as planning to
accompany the group to Cuba ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. No, the article does not correctly quote me.
Mr. Nittle. Did you plan to accompany the student group to Cuba ?
Mr. Bateson. I did not plan to accompany the student group to
Cuba. If you would like some explanation about the article, with
which I am familiar, and the circumstances in relation to this
Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, do you want to offer those as exhibits ?
Mr. Nittle. Yes, I think that should be offered, subject to a ruling
upon the explanation. I think he should be entitled to explain why I hat
is incorrect.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
851
(Document marked "Bateson Exhibit No. 1" follows.)
Bateson Exhibit No. 1
Daily Tar Heel— Nov. 29, 1962
PLC Members
Hold To Plan
For Cuba Trip
According to DenH^ King,' a
■mber of the local Progressive
T iifftn4jlll^' ^6 plans for sever
students
over the Christmas holidays have
been resumed
King said that there are now six
people who definitely plan to
travel to Cuba if they can arrange
to get support from the Castro
government.
The group, which has been deal-
ing with the Cuban government
through Castro's New York law-
yer, is not likely to get State De-
partment clearance to travel in a
communist nation.
Those presently planning to make
the trip, according to King, ara
himself, Larry Phelps, John Salter.
Charles Pratt, Valerie Armstrong.
and 'Nick Bateson.
Mr. NiTTLE. Certainly you may make any explanation if you declare
that the report is inaccurate.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I would like to say, first of all, that this appeared in
the student newspaper and, like many student newspapers, this news-
paper is staffed by amateurs who do not necessarily always stick to the
strictest accounts of journalism.
I inquired into this story when it came out and I inquired of the
editor, and it turns out it was the result of gossip at coffee shops in
Chapel Hill, and several of the people who were listed were completely
responsible ; and as far as my own situation goes, as a British citizen
and one who is not at present planning to apply for American citizen-
ship, and bearing in mind that the trip to Cuba was a trip that was
designed to test the validity of the travel ban on American ciiiAcns,
my own part was completely irrelevant, because I am not an American
852 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
citizen. There is no ban in Great Britain for travel to Cuba. There-
fore, my own participation, if it had taken place, would have been
completely irrelevant, and I never had any plans at all to take part
in any trip to Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. However, do you know who recruited the North Caro-
lina participants for this Cuban travel ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I do not know if anyone did and, if so, who.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Bateson, I hand you a copy of a letter marked for
identification
Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, let's get the article into evidence. Without
objection, it will be received in evidence.
Mr. NiTTLE. The copy of the letter just handed to you is marked
for indentification as "Bateson Exhibit No. 2." It is dated Decem-
ber 7, 1962, and signed by Charles Henderson, Jr., a dean at the
University of North Carolina, I believe, and it is addressed to Progres-
sive Labor Club, care of Nicholas Bateson, 146 East Rosemary Street,
Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Are you the Nicholas Bateson to whom
this letter was addressed, and did you receive the original of it ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I decline to answer that on the gi'ounds of the fifth
amendment.
(Document marked "Bateson Exhibit No. 2." See p. 854.)
Mr. Npttle. Were you one of the organizers of the Progressive
Labor Club at the University of North Carolina '?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. NiTTLE. Didn't the Progi'essive Labor Club participate in the
recruiting and organization of students for travel to Cuba ?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Bateson. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. NiTTLE. What?
Mr. Bateson. The answer is, "Not to my knowledge."
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you know Larry Wilford Phelps to be a member
of the Progressive Labor Club of the University of North Carolina ?
Mr. Bateson. My answer to this question must be that, bearing in
mind the nature of this committee and bearing in mind the very clearly
understood feeling that exists among Americans who might be said
to be the political left and bearing in mind that, as a visitor to this
country and as sort of a guest member of this informal club, I must
abide by the rules of this club, and one of the rules of this club is that
one is under a very solemn and sacred honor not to discuss the names
of other people who are also on the political left. I do not do this out of
any sense of expediency or any practical sense because the name of the
person you mentioned is extremely well known in North Carolina. I
do it purely on the basis of conscience and principle and feel that this
is a very sacred bond of honor that I cannot violate and, therefore, I
decline to answer this question on the grounds of the first amendment.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to
answer the question.
Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. Am I to understand that this body
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN TJ.S. 853
Mr. Pool. You will have to talk a little louder. We can't hear
you.
Mr. Bateson. Am I to understand that this body is going to revoke
my privilege under the first amendment of the Constitution?
Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, did I understand the witness to
testify that he is under an oath or a pledge not to identify or disclose
information with regard to his associates in this organization ?
Mr. Bateson. I am not talking about any formal oath. I am not
talking about any particular organization. It is an oath of my
own choosing, a voluntary oath. It is not a formally given oath of
any kind. It is just on the grounds primarily of conscience, an oath
to my own conscience, and I feel myself unable to go through names
of other people who are on the political left in the United States.
Mr. Johansen. In other words then, you are invoking the fifth
amendment because, under the ruling of the court, you cannot merely
and exclusively invoke the first amendment in refusing to answer this
question involving other persons.
Mr. Bateson. In that case, it seems reasonable that I should also in-
voke the fifth amendment, since you are revoking my right to invoke
the first amendment.
Mr. Pool. You are invoking the fifth amendment?
Mr. Bateson. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. The letter which I just handed you advises that "the
Progressive Labor club is not recognized by the University of North
Carolina and is therefore barred from the use of University facilities
for meetings," and so forth.
Had you, as an official of the Progressive Labor Club, made applica-
tion to the university for recognition of this Progressive Labor Club ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination as before.
Mr. Pool. Do you want to introduce the letter in evidence?
Mr. Nittle. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I offer the letter into evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is received.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Bateson, I hand you a photostatic copy of an article
we have marked for identification as "Bateson Exhibit No. 3," titled
"New Leftist Club 'Solidifies' View," which appeared in the Daily
Tar Heel of September 25, 1962. You will note that you are identified
as the "spokesman" of the Progressive Labor Club. Would you tell
us whether you granted that interview to the Daily Tar Heel as the
"spokesman for the Progressive Labor Club ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
(Document marked "Bateson Exhibit No. 3." See p. 855, 856.)
Mr. Nittle. Would you tell us how the Progressive Labor Club was
organized at Chapel Hill ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. With whom from the national office of Progressive
Labor did you confer in forming the Chapel Hill branch of the
Progressive Labor Club ?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. Were you in attendance at the national organizational
meeting of the Progressive Labor Movement, held on July 1, 1962?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. Nittle. Did you confer with Jacob Rosen
Mr. Bateson. What?
98-765 0^613— pt. 4 4
854
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES EST U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. — about the formation of the Progressive Labor Club
in Chapel Hill?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. NrrTLE. Did you confer with Milton Rosen ?
Mr. Bateson. Same declination.
Bateson Exhibit No. 2
December 7, 1962
Progressive Labor Club
c/o Nicholas Bateson
146 E Rosemary Street
Chapel Hill, N.C.
Dear Mr. Bateson:
I should like to put on record the understanding
we have up to this point maintained, namely that the Progressive
Labor club is not recognized by the University of North Carolina
and is therefore barred from the use of University facilities
for meetings, etc.
Would you please relay this Information to your
membership?
Sincerely yours.
Charles Henderson, Jr.
cc: Dean William G. Long
'k^
\y^
\
\
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
855
Bateson Exhibit No. 3
Daily Tar Heel. September 25, 1962, p. 1/
Plans Po»tieal Acaon
New Leftist Club
'Solidifies^ View
1t9 VANCS BAftMn
IzatMo. the Proer^ane Ubor
Club, was fomMd bm tfa^ auxir
mer espotusiag a A^unifit-Le^nist
brand of socialism. Vaa club
pkas to advance its beliefs
through political action.
The group conaiato xHiAdpally
of pec^Ie from the New Left Chib
^liidi dtebanded last spring. The
chd> has much more solidified
views, however, than the "any-
ivhere left of Kennedy" wMch
was the orientation of the New
Left Chib.
In an interview ye>terdQr, chib
spolcesman Nick Batesoo said
that the purpose of Um Progres-
sive Labor Chib was to "act po-
litically" in an op«B and above-
board manna*.
The orientation of the dub. he
said, was Marxist-Leninist, but
that. "Marxism-Leniniara as a
philosophy was devised to deal
wit hthe problems <rf Europe one
hundred years ago. It can only
be applied by logical inference
to America today."
"Conmwnlst Eaemy"
When aslced whether the group
had an affiliation with the Com-
munist Party. Mr. Bateson re-
plied that the Communlats con-
sider the Progressive Labor
movement as a "very deadly
He said "Political Affau-s" the
official organ of the Commun-
ist Party, had severely de-
nojinced the Progressive Labor
organization in an unsigned ar-
ticle. The unsigned articles are
taken to be official statesmenta
of party policy.
Several members of the Na-
tional Progressive Labor move-
ment have been members of the
Commimiit Party* he said, but
all were either expelled or left oi
their own accord. None of the
local members have ever been
afntiated with the Communist
Party, he stated.
Objectims To Cotimniatam
Batescon said that he hunself
was dissatJstied "Wtth the Com-
munist Party. "We don't object
because they are Communists."
he said "but i)ecaus.e they are
a bureaucratic organization, and
hocause they are an organization
that lias made very few at-
tempts to make meanm^^ul con-
tacts with the American people
aa a wiiolo.
"Another reason i& that it is
sort of a corrupt orsasizatkon.
Tliere arc fewer than two thou-
sand members in America now.
The leaders are reputed to liw
at a degree of opuloBce iacom-
paCttto with fbe idoala of social-
ism.
"The Communist Party hasii't
been subversive, it's just beeo
lazy." He said tlut the party has
done ootking whatihtM MMcd
e^abUahiag rinrf<!»n mA iMi
856 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
Bateson Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
and tl^ namtng of cMtMOim
ar«M fn which it mlgM ta^B
bees eftfective.
T Jaala ■■■■
MOSMtgy
When quizzed alMut Utte ideohv
gy of the chib, Bateson said flat
it was "a democratic organte-
tioo— with a small 'd.' We b^
lieve that the U.S. is a vqy
anti-democratic nation." No troe
denv>cracy can exist, he said.Jn
any country with anuy kind of
economic anxiety.
"Freedom can only exist nbare
there is economic security," ht
said. "There is no true froates
until yea have a complete Utk.
of anidely."
The New Lefi. which was dis-.
baadod <m campus last spttaiC
had DO connection with the Fro-
gressive Labor Club. accQr<^ng
to Bateson. He said that the New
Left was a political discusakm
group in which anyone "left of
Kennedy" was welcome.
"However, we are organized
for political work, not just poIU
tical talk." He said that file
New Left had no ideology ^k1
didn't need one. It was for "coy'
one wiw was moderately VbenL**
No Fomal (^aiiisatlon
The chib is not organized W
yet. but Dennis King and Qavid
Bind tenv been appaiotad 4)^
ficial spokesmen. The member-
ship now consists of eleven per-
sons, among them Larry Phdps,
an independent candidate lor
president of the student body in
last spring's election. The group
I^ans to be open and above-
board in it:> operation.
Bateson said that there wadd
be a limit to the extent that ^
public could b^ admittel ta Ihft
P^^m**?i|*; but that this is trod
of all pditical parUes. "Wo asm
not as underground iftg^x^xar
tion."
I^iile the dub has no deEisite
^BQi far the future, theie are
areas in which it plans to op^^r-
ate extensively, according to
Bateson. Top priority is to work
nt unionizing the industries in
North C:ii</lina.
He quoted a number of figures
to the effect that North Carolina
has the smallest percentage of
unions in the country, with less
than eight per cait of the work-
ers unionized. He also quoted
Covemor "Terry Sanford as say-
ing that Noi-th Carolina has the
lowest industrial wage average
in the country. "I feel that these
two are ultimately related," he
said.
The other area in which the
club plans to work is integra-
tion. Batt'son said that any
union would have to be fully in-
tegrated or it could never amount
to anything. "There must \ye
some kind of unity among tlie
workers, lliis basic disunity is
harmful to both whites and Ne-
groes.
B.iteson said that anyone could
join the club, but thcrt it would
have to be done with full aware-
ness of the consequences. He
said he realized membership
might mean total social ostra-
cism. He also sak) that in order
10 understand Marxism-Leninism
one would have to l)e prepared
to do a great deal of study and
perhaps go through a reorienta-
has been .scheduled for this fall,
tion of one's thinking.
"A k)t of people don't realize
that We have a class system in
the U.S. It is going to be a slow
process to undergo a change in
our thinking."
In July the club sent a dele-
gation to a national Progressive
Labor meeting in New York. The
purpose of the meeting was to
discuss the formation of a politi-
cal party on a formal basis.
Thife was not done, but the
but the delegates returned to
"expforihg the pos.sibilities of
starting such a party and broad-
ening our activities," according to
David Bland.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 857
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you confer with Mortimer Scheer on that same
subject?
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.*
Mr. NiTTLE. I offer the article in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so received.
Mr. NiTTLE. As a result of your association with Jacob Rosen, have
you stated that he changed you from a "Stalinist" to a "Maoist," that
is, a follower of the Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. I make the same declination.
Mr. NiTFLE. The staff has no further questions.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I ask the chairman to direct the
committee counsel to refer the transcript of this testimony to the
Bureau of Naturalization and Immigration for appropriate review
by that agency. t
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Chairman, I have one question.
Mr. Pool. It will be so done, Mr. Johansen.
Mr, IcHORD. I have one question of the witness. You gave a very
lengthy explanation as to why you did not intend to travel to Cuba.
I would like to ask the witness whether you aided or assisted any
American citizens in the organization or arranging of a trip to Coiba?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. Since this seems to be a question that is designed to
involve Arnold Indenbaum, I feel I must make the same declination
as before.
Mr. IcHORD. Did you talk to any students or try to persuade anyone
to make a trip to Cuba?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Bateson. No, I did not.
Mr. IcHORD. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Pool. You are excused.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Chairman, we would like to recall Miss June Gard,
to clarify certain testimony. Would you come forward, please ?
IVIr. Pool. Miss Gard, you are still under oath.
TESTIMONY OF JUNE ANITA GARD-^Resumed
Mr. Nittle. Miss Gard, you testified, did you not, that you received
two telephone calls for persons identifying themselves as Jay Jacob ?
Miss Gard. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. The first call was from Canada ?
Miss Gard. That is right.
Mr. Nittle. And concerned the payment of money for the tickets
in Ottawa, is that not correct ?
Miss Gard. That is correct.
Mr. Nittle. Do you recall the date of that call ?
Miss Gard. No, I am sorry, I don't. It was in June, mid-June
[1963], I believe.
Mr. Nittle. The second call, apparently a local one, contained a re-
quest for a refund for unused tickets ?
Miss Gard. That is right.
858 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. It was on this occasion that you informed the caller
that he would have to appear in person and that he would have to
have appropriate identification with him ?
Miss Gard. That is correct.
Mr. NrrTLE. Do you recall the date of this call ?
Miss Gard. That was shortly after the students had departed. It
was at least 3 or 4 days after.
Mr. NrrTLE. That would be in late June ?
Miss Gard. lyatejune.
Mr. NrrTLE. Late June of 1963 ?
Miss Gard. That is right.
Mr. NiTTLE. Or possibly the early part of July ?
Miss Gard. Possibly.
Mr. NiTTLE. The man who subsequently came to the KLM office and
identified himself to you as Jay Jacob is the same man who was the
first witness to testify before the committee this morning ?
Miss Gard. That is right.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is all,
Mr. Pool. There will be a recess until 2 o'clock.
All the witnesses will report back here who have not been excused.
(Whereupon, at 12 :30 p.m. Wednesday, October 16, 1963, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1963
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m.. Honorable Joe R. Pool,
chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
(Members present : Representatives Pool, Ichord, and Johansen of
the subcommittee, and also Representatives Bruce, Schadeberg, and
Ashbrook.)
Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Brunhilde Linke come forward, please.
Mr, Pool. Stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear that the
testimony that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Miss LiNKE. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BRUinilLIXE LINKE
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Linke, will you state your full name for the record
and spell it for the record, please ?
Miss LiNKE. B-r-u-n-h-i-1-d-e L-i-n-k-e.
Mr. NiTTLE. By whom are you employed and in what capacity ?
Miss LiNKE. I am employed by KLM Royal Dutch Airlines at 609
Fifth Avenue as a ticket agent.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you so employed on August 27 of this year ?
Miss Linke. Yes, I was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you ever known a person identified to you as
"Jay Jacob" or "Jay Jacobs" ?
Miss Linke. Yes, I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you residing in the city of New York ?
Miss LiNKE. Yes, I am.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 859
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate the time and circumstances under
which you first met Jay Jacobs ?
Miss LiNKE. It was when Mr. Jacobs, accompanied by another
gentleman, came to the KLM ticket office to check on a refund pro-
ceeding that he had initiated there.
Mr. NiTFLE. Do you recollect the month and the day on which this
occurred ?
Miss LiNKE. I believe it was the last week in August.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was it on or about August 26, 1963 f
Miss LiNKE. Yes, I believe so.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was the gentleman with Jay Jacobs identified to you ?
Miss LiNKE. I cannot remember for certain, but I think he said
"Mr. Bennett."
Mr. NiTTLE. Did Mr. Jacobs make any request of you with respect
to the refund on tickets ?
Miss LiNKE. It had been initiated at the time he came in to see me,
and he asked me to check upon it further, why it had not come
through.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did he at that time identify himself ?
MissLiNKE. Yes, he did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat did he say ?
Miss LiNK^. He had a driver's license, which had his picture on it,
and he also had a letter from the refund department of my company
requesting him either to give authorization or to come in person to
collect the money, and that is what he was there to do at that time.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you personally see the driver's license?
Miss LiNKE. Yes, I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Whose name was on it?
Miss LiNKE. It was made out to Mr. Jay Jacobs or J. Jacobs, I am
not sure, and it had a picture of the gentleman on it who was sitting
in my office.
Mr. NiTFLE. After that first meeting with Jay Jacobs, did you see
him again ?
Miss LiNKE. Yes, I saw him the following morning.
Mr. NiTTLE. Could you tell us what happened then ?
Miss LiNKE. At that time he was asked to return. There was no
one in the company to authorize the signing of the check so he was
asked to return the next morning, which he did, and at that time the
check was handed to him.
Mr. NiTTLE. The check was handed to him on the occasion of his
second visit to you ?
Miss LiNKE. That is correct.
Mr. NiTTLE. By whom was the check handed to him ?
Miss LiNKE. The manager of the ticket office handed him the check
personally.
Mr. NiTTLE. What was his name ?
Miss LiNKE. Mr. van der Jagt.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you see Mr. van der Jagt hand him this check?
Miss LiNKE. Yes, I did.
Mr. NriTLE. Miss Linke, have you had an opportunity to observe
the first witness, who identified himself in the course of his testimony
this morning as Arnold Indenbaum ?
Miss Linke. Yes, I did.
860 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTL^. Is Arnold Indenbaum the same person known to you as
Jay Jacobs?
Miss LiNKE. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is there any doubt in your mind about that?
Miss Ijinkk. No. He was the gentleman to whom the check was
handed in my presence.
Mr. Pool. You are referring to the gentleman who was the first
witness here this morning?
Miss LiNKE. Yes, sir.
Mr. NrrTLE. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Pool. You are excused.
Call your next witness, Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Edward R. O'Neill, please come forward.
Mr. Pool. Stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear the testi-
mony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. O'Neill. I do.
Mr. Pool. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF EDWAED R. O'NEILL
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. O'Neill. Edward R. O'Neill.
Mr. NiTTLE. You are a resident of New York ?
Mr. O'Neill. New York ; yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. O'Neill, by whom are you employed and in what
capacity?
Mr. O'Neill. I am employed by British Overseas Airways Cor-
poration as ticket counter manager at 530 Fifth Avenue.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long have you been employed by BO AC airlines ?
Mr. O'Neill. Since September 1959, a little over 4 years.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. O'Neill, at the time you were subpenaed you were
requested to bring certain records with you. Have you brought
them?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you examine your records to determine whether
they show what deposits were made in Ottawa, Canada, in the office
of your airline on June 10 and June 11, 1963, by a Mr. Jay Jacobs?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes. On June 10, 1963, our Ottawa office called and
they advised us that they had received a $5,000 deposit from Mr. Jay
Jacobs and that the balance would be paid on June 11.
On June 11, Mr. Morgan of our office in Ottawa called to say that
the remainder of $17,739.20 was paid, bringing the total amount into
us.
Mr. NiTTLE. What do the records show to be the purpose of this
deposit ?
Mr. O'Neill. The deposit was requested actually to be paid on
June 6 that we might hold the 60 original seats that Mr. Laub had
requested earlier in June — in fact, in May — for travel from New
York to London to Paris.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do your records show the full name of Mr. Laub ?
Mr. O'Neill. We do have that on our records. Yes, Mr. Levi Lee
Laub.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIYITIES EST U.S. 861
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you recall whether your New York office received
any telephone calls from Ottawa, Canada, in June of 1963 which were
made by a person identifying himself as Mr. Laub ?
Mr. O'Neill. Mr. Laub called on June 8 — which I believe was a
Saturday. — to tell us that he could not pay the deposit on that date in
Montreal because our office was closed.
On June 10, Monday, when our office advised us that the $5,000
deposit had been paid, Mr. Laub had spoken at that time to Mrs.
Gonzalez, who is the agent in my office who was handling the trans-
action.
Mr. NiTTLE. In connection with your official duties as manager at
the BOAC ticket office, did it come to your attention that on June 13,
1963, reservations had been made on behalf of one V. Ortiz and an
A. Indenbaum ?
• Mr. O'Neill. Yes. At that time Miss Ortiz came in with Mr. Laub
to purchase a ticket for herself and at the same time a ticket for a
"no-name" booking that we had ; a "no-name" is given when you are
not sure who is traveling.
When she came in to pick up her own ticket, she substituted the
name of A. Indenbaum for the no-name booking we had.
Mr. NiTTLE. A. Indenbaimi did not call personally at the office?
Mr. O'Neill. No, he did not not call personally at the office.
Mr.- Nittle. Was the purchase price of these tickets paid and, if
so, when and in what manner ?
Mr. O'Neill. The purchase price, I believe, was paid in cash over
the counter by Miss Ortiz. Let me check that. I believe it was cash.
Yes, in cash.
Mr. Nittle. In what amount ?
Mr. O'Neill. $516.80 each, $1,033.60
Mr. Nittle. What was the destination indicated on these tickets and
for what date were the reservations made ?
Mr. O'Neill. The tickets were reserved for New York-London-
Paris leaving on June 16 on BOAC to London and connecting with
, British Overseas airlines to Paris, with an open return.
Mr. Nittle. I hand you a photostatic copy of the tickets purchased
on behalf of V. Ortiz and A. Indenbaum, marked respectively as
"O'Neill Exhibit Nos. 1 and 1-A." Is that a true cx^py of the records
in your office and of the actual tickets?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, it is.
Mr. Nittle. Executed for those persons ?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibits 1 and 1-A in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(Document marked "O'Neill Exhibits Nos. 1 and 1-A," respectively.
See next page. )
Mr. Nittle. It may be recalled that Barry Hoffman, a witness
before this committee on September 12, 1963, testified that he had
departed from New York with the student group on June 25, 1963,
and that one Victoria Ortiz joined the group in Prague, Czechoslo-
vakia, but had not departed from New York with the student group on
June 25.
Mr. O'Neill, I now hand you a copy of a receipt dated August 26,
1963, marked for identification as "O'Neill Exhibit No. 2." It appears
to be signed by one Jay Jacobs, acknowledging receipt of check
numbered D000149 for the sum of $4,134.40.
862
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN tJ.S.
O'Neill Exhibit No. 1
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Mr. NiTTLE. Was this receipt executed by Jay Jacobs in your pres-
ence on August 26, 1963 ?
Mr. O'Neill.. Yes, sir, it was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit No. 2 in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so ordered,
(Document marked "O'Neill Exhibit No. 2." See next page.)
Mr. NiTTLE. I direct your attention to the notation on the receipt.
Exhibit No. 2, preceding the signature of Jay Jacobs, by which it
appears Jay Jacobs' identification was established by a North Carolina
driver's license number 1230513. Was this license exhibited to you by
Jay Jacobs ?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, sir, it was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you make the entries upon the receipt ?
Mr. O'Neill. I made the entries myself on the receipt.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did Jay Jacobs sign that in your presence ?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, sir, he did.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 863
O'Neill Exhibit No. 2
BOM
British Overseas Airways Corporation
530 FIFTH AVENUE - NEW YORK 36 • N. Y.
Telephone: MUrrey Hill 7-8900 • Cables: 'Speedbird' New York
/ft/^ 2- 4.^ f f -6j
This is to acknowledge that I have received ch^ijae
#IX)(.iOlJi9 for the amount of $U13U.U0.
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Identification/^^ ^/?//^ySS l/C - /ZJaS^S
Date
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ALSO OFF/CES AT,
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MONTREAL • NEW YORK • PHILADELPHIA • PITTSBUROH • SAN DIEGO • SAH FRANCISCO . SEAHLE • ST. LOUIS • TORONTO • VANCOUVER ■ WASHIHBTON . WINNIPEB • ryuiRiT^
864
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. I hand you a photostatic copy, Mr, O'Neill, of a check
dated August 26, 1963, numbered D000149, payable to the order of
Jay Jacobs Koute #1, Box 141 B, Durham, North Carolina, in the
amount of $4,134.40, drawn under your signature for BOAC, upon
the First National City Bank of New York, 42d and Madison Avenue
Branch.
We have marked the exhibit for identification as "O'Neill Exhibit
No. 3." Is this the check you delivered to Jay Jacobs for which he
gave you a receipt?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. I offer that in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection it is so ordered.
(Document marked "O'Neill Exhibit No. 3" follows.)
O'Neill Exhibit No. 3
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Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. O'Neill, have you recognized the recipient of this
check (Juring the course of the hearings today ?
Mr. O'Neill. Yes, sir, the Mr. Jay Jacobs who was in my office is
the Mr. Indenbaum who testified this morning.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. ' 865
Mr. Pool. Let the record show that the three exhibits were offered in
evidence, and there being no objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. Pool. Does any member of the committee have any questions ?
If not, you are excused.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would David Perham please come forward ?
Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about
to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God ?
Mr. Perham. I do.
TESTIMONY OF DAVID PERHAM
Mr. NiTFLE. Will you state your full name for the record, please,
and spell it^?
Mr. Perham. David Perham, P-e-r-h-a-m.
Mr. Nittle. You reside in the State of New York, is that correct?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nitfle. Mr. Perham, on August 27, 1963, were you employed
by the First National City Bank of New York at its branch office
located at 640 Fifth Avenue, New York City ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you presently employed by that bank ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, I am presently employed by the bank. I am
no longer located at that branch.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you had an opportunity to observe the first wit-
ness who testified before this committee this morning, identifying
himself as Arnold Indenbamn ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you ever known this person ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, I knew him as Jay Jacob.
, jMr. NiTTLE. Mr. Perham, I hand you a photostatic copy of a check,
dat€d August 27, 1963, numbered 6001, payable to the order of Mr.
Jay Jacob, Rout« 1, 141 B, Durham, N.C., in the amount of $2,607.20,
drawn against the account of the KLM Royal Dutch Airlines upon
the 640 5th Avenue branch of the National City l^ank of New York.
Does this check refresh your recollection of the circumstances under
w^hich you first saw it ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir. I was on the platfonri at the time as an
officer on the platform approving checks, and Mr. Jacob came over
with this check and wanted to have it approved. I asked him for
identification. He gave me the North Carolina driver's license which
was referred to earlier. His picture was on the back of this item.
I was only authorized to approve checks up to $250, so I made my
approval and then I took it to an officer with higher signing powers.
He asked me if the gentleman's picture was the man at my desk.
I said, "Yes," that it was. I went back to my desk and gave the
license and the check back to Mr. Jacob.
Mr. NiTTLE. Does the check bear any notation relating to the means
of identification utilized by Mr. Jacob?
Mr. Perham. Yes. We are usually required and it is bank policy
to take down any identification on the back of the check.
This is my handwriting, and I took down North Carolina driver's
license number such-and-such.
866 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES EST U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is in your own handwriting?
Mr. Perham. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Does an endorsement appear upon that check in the
name of Jay Jacobs ?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was that executed in your presence?
Mr. Perham. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. That was executed by the person who was identified
today as Arnold Indenbaum?
Mr. Perham. Yes, sir.
Mr. NriTLE. I offer that in evidence, Mr. Chairman, as Perham
Exhibit No. 1.
Mr. Pool. If there is no objection, it is so ordered.
(Document marked "Perham Exhibit No. 1" follows.)
Perham Exhibit No. 1
ICbM ROYAL & U r € H A I It I ^ ^ ::5
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Route 1. 141 B
Durhaa. N. C.
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Mr. NiTTLB. No further questions.
Mr. Pool. The witness may be excused.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. Harold Gesell.
EXHIBIT 'J „,
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 867
Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD J. E. GESELL
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name for the record, please,
and spell it?
Mr. Gesell. Harold J. E. G-e-s-e-1-1.
Mr. NiTTLE. Where do you live?
Mr. Gesell. I live in Takoma Park, Maryland.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your occupation, the type of position
you hold, and what your duties are?
Mr. Gesell. I am the chief of the Identification and Detection
Division of the United States Veterans' Administration at the central
office here in Washington. My duties are principally to examine docu-
ments and other evidentiary matters for identification purposes for
not only the Veterans' Administration but also for other Government
agencies.
Mr. Nittle. 'Wliat study or preparation have you made for your
profession and work ?
Mr. Gesell. I read the principal textbook on the subject and also
attended various schools regarding the identification of documents.
Mr. Nittle. How long have you been engaged in this work ?
Mr. Gesell. About 33 years.
Mr. Nittle. How much of your time is spent in this work ?
Mr. Gesell. All of my time.
Mr. Nittle. Do you hold any degrees and, if so, would you state
what they are?
Mr. Gesell. An LL. B. degree.
Mr. Nittle. From what university ?
Mr. Gesell. Valparaiso University in Indiana.
Mr, Nittle. Have you been admitted to any state bar and, if so, for
what state?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, sir. The Indiana State Bar, the Iowa State Bar,
and the United States Supreme Court.
Mr. Nittle. What other educational qualifications do you have?
Mr. Gesell. I have attended various schools, short courses, on the
subject of scientific crime detection, principally documents. I am a
graduate of the scientific crime detection laboratory school at North-
western University, Chicago, and I am a graduate of the law enforce-
ment school of the Treasury Department, United States Treasury
Department. I am a graduate of the FBI National Police Academy.
Washington, D.C. I am a graduate of the Office of Special Investiga-
tions Training School of tlie United States Air Force and I also
instructed there for a year and a half.
Mr. Nittle. What positions have you held pr^or to your present
position?
Mr. Gesell. I have been chief of the identification division of the
Office of State Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification
located at Des Moines, Iowa, and also a deputy sheriff at Des Moines,
Iowa, Polk County, for 6 years in charge of the identification bureau
in that office.
868 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
Then, I spent 2 years with the United States Treasury Department
as a special agent of the intelligence unit and was farmed out to an-
other division of the Treasury Department as an examiner.
I transferred oter to the Veterans' Administration. I have been
with Veterans since 1943 except for about 4 years and 7 months while
1 was in the Air Force.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you delivered lectures on identification of doc-
uments ?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, I have given numerous of them throughout the
country — at Iowa State, for instance, peace officers' courses 4 or 5
years and, of course, the OSI ^ training school, training lecturer in
crime detection. In fact, I was just over in Europe last April and
lectured to our OSI people in London, Wiesbaden, and Paris.
Mr. NnTLE. Have you ever qualified and testified as an examiner of
questioned documents in any of the courts ?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, sir, on numerous occasions in about 15 States of
the United States and several district courts in the United States and
in 6 foreign countries.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Gesell, on October 8, 1963, did you receive from
the Committee on Un-American Activities certain documents con-
taining the signature of Jay Jacobs ?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, I did.
Mr. NrriLE. I now hand you four documents which are identified
respectively as "Gesell Exhibits Nos. 1 through 4," inclusive.
Exhibit 1 is a check drawn on the First Natioijal City Bank by
the British Overseas Airways Corporation numbered, D000149, dated
August 26, 1963, endorsed "Jay Jacobs" [previously introduced as
O'Neill Exhibit No. 3. Seep. 864].
Exhibit No. 2 is a check drawn on the First National City Bank by
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, dated August 27, 1963, endorsed "Jay
Jacobs" [previously introduced as Perham Exhibit No. 1. See p. 866].
Exhibit No. 3 is a receipt on the letterhead of the British Overseas
Airways Corporation dated August 26, 1963, signed "Jay Jacobs" [pre-
^'iously introduced as O'Neill Exhibit No. 2. See p. 863].
Exhibit No. 4 is an application for North Carolina driver's license,
official form DLr-240, signed "Jay Jacobs" and witnessed by D. J. Sher-
man [previously introduced as Sherman Exhibit No. 1. See p. 844].
Mr. Gesell. Yes, I have them.
Mr. Nittle. Are those the documents delivered to you on October
8,1963?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, sir.
Mr. NriTLE. Did you have occasion to examine the signature of Jay
Jacobs appearing upon the four documents ?
Mr. Gesell. I had.
Mr. NriTLE. Have you reached any conclusion with respect to the
authorship of the signature "Jay Jacobs" upon the four exhibits handed
to you ?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, I have.
Mr. Ntttle. Would you state your opinion as to the authorship ?
Mr. Gesell. All four of the "Jay Jacobs" signatures described as be-
ing on Exhibits 1 through 4 were written by one and the same person.
Office of Special Investigations (Intelligence branch of the Air Force).
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 869
Mr. NiTTLE. Could you kindly tell the committee upon what you
base that conclusion, briefly, please ?
Mr. Gesell. Yes, sir, I will be very happy to. If there is any ques-
tion in the exaanining of any document, like anything else, certain well
defined principles which are the basic factors which serve to dis-
tinguish one handwriting from another — enable one to detennine the
genuine from the fake.
I find that it is ver-y simple to state the basic elements of analysis,
and it is simply based on the word "due" — d-u-e — you see; (/escribe
what you see, i/nderstand what you see, and evaluate what you see.
And then report on it.
If some of the gentlemen would like to know what some of our
basic identification requirements are : there musit be a strong combina-
tion of handwriting similarities and there must not be any unexplained
major differences in these.
Cliarts were prepared, which I prepared myself, showing the four
signatures. I have several with me here if the committee would like
to follow me.
Mr. NiTiLE. Kindly hand them to me and I will pass them tx) the
committee members.
(Copies of chart handed to committee members.)
(Chart marked "Gesell Exhibit No. 1." See next page.)
Mr. Gesell. I might explain this chart, gentlemen. The top sig-
nature I will refer to as No. 1, the next as No. 2, the third one No.
3, and the last one as No. 4.
The first two are those endorsements on the two checks in question.
The third is from the BO AC receipt form and the fourth one is from
the North Carolina driver's license application.
The charts are made principally for the purpose of viewing the
signatures side by side, so that you can see your similarities or dif-
ferences as they exist.
Would you care for me to explain how I arrived at some conclusions
and the things I used here to arrive at my conclusions ?
Mr. Pool. Go right ahead.
Mr. Gesell. I would be very happy to if you gentlemen prefer,
I would say there are many, many similarities and also there are
several variations I noticed in the four signatures. I would, first of
all, like to say just a word about the writing of the individual who
wrote all four signatures. The writing ability is good, and it is writ-
ten probably with the same speed all the way through.
I would say there are combinations or variations that we might see,
and I would like to point them out in the first two signatures.
You will notice that the two "A's" in the first signature are printed
and so is the "A" in the "Jay" in the second signature. The "a's" in
the third and fourth signatures are the normal style "a." Notice that
in the entire writing, the entire writing movement is in a circular
clockwise fashion. There are some variations here, which is true,
but you will see that in the second "Jacobs" — the "a" in "Jacobs"
compares very favorably with the other "a's" in three and four, and
the variation really does not amount to much in that I would say the
first two signatures, in laymen's terminology, would probably be his
Sunday signature, so to speak, because there is a lot of money involved
in these two signatures.
©8-765 O — 63 — pt 4 5
870 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
The last one I would say was written more in an informal manner
because I would say that the person was probably in a huri-y to get out.
That is why the ending "y" in "Jay" has not been finished. That is
the outward thrust and the thnist to the right.
Gesell Exhibit No. 5
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN V.S. 871
I would also say if you turn the chart over to your left and hold it up
with the 10-inch right side on the top, notice the bottom of ajll of the
"b's" in the "Jacobs," like the bottom part of a cereal bowl, nice and
rounded in all four of them ; very good agreement.
I would also say that the "c's" are very good in the writing agree-
ment, particularly in signatures two, three, and four.
You will notice the way they slant in, both the "J's" in "Jay" and
"Jacobs" are practically the same. There is hardly any deviation at all
in slant. Notice another similarity, all of the capital "J's" in "Jay"
have long swinging loops, the final loops, as compared to the final loops
in the "J" in "Jacobs" and that is another very good similarity, a very
strong similarity of identity.
You might also compare the distances, that is, between the letters
"J" and "A" and "J" and "a" both in "Jay" and "Jacobs." Notice
there is equal distance practically all the way through.
By the way, these are all enlarged to the same size, so as far as size
is concerned they are all of the same length. You will notice that the
length is the same. They are all about the same length. I could prob-
ably spend a little more time pointing out spme of the similarities.
I do not see any other variations, gentlemen, but I think, therefore,
you gentlemen recognize the similarities I have pointed out and I
think, as a consequence of this study, most anyone could come to the
conclusion, and you don't have to be a handwriting expert, that all
four signatures were written by the same person. That is, in my
opinion.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, may we mark the photographic chart as
"Gesell Exhibit No. 5" and receive it in evidence?
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. NriTLE. The staff has no further questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Pool. Thank you for appearing as a witness.
Counsel, call your next witness.
Mr. NiTTLE. We would like to recall Arnold Indenbaum. Would
Arnold Indenbaum please come forward ?
Mr. Pool. You are still under oath, Mr. Indenbaum.
TESTIMONY OF ARNOLD INDENBAUM— Resumed
Mr. NrrrLE. Mr. Indenbaum, have you heard the testimony of the
witness June Gard, ticket agent for KLM airlines ?
Mr. Indenbatj3I. I have.
Mr. Nitfle. Miss Gard testified that in June an individual identify-
ing himself as Mr. Jacob telephoned her from the KLM office in
Ottawa, Canada, and represented himself as being a friend of Mr.
Laub, known to this committee as Levi Lee Laub. This call related
to the deposit of funds with the KLM agent in Ottawa, Canada, for
the purchase of airline tickets to Paris, France.
The question we would like to ask you is : Are you the Mr. Jacobs
who made the telephone call to Miss Gard from Canada ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
872 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Pool. That would be the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Indenbaum. It involves the question of my being under sub-
pena by the grand jury and any testimony I make here becomes part
of the public record.
Mr. Pool. Do you plead the fifth amendment on this ?
Mr. Indeostbaum. I said also what I "previously stated." Yes, that
includes the fifth amendment.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, is it not a fact that you are not the
person who identified himself as Jay Jacobs in Canada, that that
person was someone else?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Gard also testified that, when she later received a
local call from a Mr. Jacob asking that the refund be mailed to him,
she advised the caller that KLM would be unable to send him the
refund and it would be necessary for him to come into the KLM office
and identify himself as Jay Jacob.
Did not ner request for identification lead to your going to North
Carolina to secure a driver's license under the false name of Jay
Jacobs?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. You heard Miss Gard identify you as the person intro-
duced to her as Mr. Jacob in the latter part of August of this year.
Did she correctly identify you ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, I have before me the affidavit of H. J
van der Jagt, ticket manager of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Mr.
van der Jagt has returned to Holland for a brief stay and was unable
to appear personally before the committee today.
In his affidavit, marked for identification as "Indenbaum Exhibit
No. 1" which I hand to you, Mr. van der Jagt identifies you as the
person known to him as Jay Jacobs and to whom he turned over a
check, dated August 27, 1963, in the amount of $2,067.20, as a refund
due in connection with a student trip to Cuba.
Mr. van der Jagt also said Mr. Jay Jacobs presented a North Caro-
lina driver's license for identification when he received the refund
check.
Is there any inaccuracy in the affidavit of Mr. van der Jagt?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr, Chairman, I offer Exhibit No. 1 in evidence.
Mr. Pool. If there is no objection, it is so ordered.
(Document marked "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, I hand you a photostatic copy of the
check of the KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, to which I have referred,
dated August 27, 1963, and made payable to the order of Mr. Jay
Jacob, Route 1, Box 141 B, Durham, North Carolina, which is marked
for identification as "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 2." Is that not the
check which was delivered to you by Mr. H. J. van der Jagt at the
offices of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines on August 27, 1963 ?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACmVITIES IN U.S. 873
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NriTLE. Mr. Chairman, I oflfer the exhibit in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(Document previously marked for identification as "Perham Ex-
hibit No. 1." See p. 866.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you after receiving that check then appear at the
First National City Bank, 640 Fifth Avenue, New York City, for
the purpose of cashing it ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you not endorse that check as Jay Jacobs?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. There is a notation likewise upon the check made by the
paying teller that you identified yourself by a North Carolina driver's
license, number 1230513. Did you exhibit a North Carolina driver's
license of that number to the paying teller ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, were you also in attendance as the wit-
ness Peter Gumpert gave his testimony today ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I was.
Mr. NrrrLE. He testified that he accompanied you to Oarrboro,
North Carolina, so that you might make application for a North Caro-
lina driver's license. Did he correctly relate the circumstances under
which you made this application for a license?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was Peter Gumpert introduced by you to Nicholas
Bateson the evening of July 25, 1963 ?
]\Ir. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did not Nicholas Bateson and Peter Gumpert at that
time reside at Route #1, Box 141-B, Durham, North Carolina?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you ever resided at that address ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long have you known Nicholas Bateson ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr, NiTTLE. Do you know him to be a member of the Progressive
Labor Movement?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us why you, a longtime resident of the
State of New York, would choose to obtain identification as Jay
Jacobs in the State of North Carolina, at Carrboro particularly ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I would like to ask you what particular legisla-
tive purpose that question has.
Mr. NiTTLE. We want to inquire whether you did so upon your own
initiative or at the request of someone else connected with the Pro-
gressive Labor Movement, a Communist organization, which, accord-
874 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
ing to testimony before this committee, played an important role in
organizing this student travel to Cuba.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I still don't see to my satisfaction that this serves
any legislative purpose, and you did not answer the question I raised.
Mr. Pool. The Chair orders you to answer the question.
Mr. Indenbaum. I will have to refuse to answer that on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Let the record show that the witness does not "have
to" refuse. The witness elects to invoke the fifth amendment,
Mr. Pool. Let the record show that.
Mr. Indenbaum. Let the record show the protection the Constitu-
tion provides me.
Mr. Pool. That is right.
Mr. Nittle. Weren't you in possession of a valid New York chauf-
feur's license?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. Wasn't your New York chauffeur's license titled to
Arnold Indenbaum, your name ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Indenbaum, did you hear the testimony of D. U.
Sherman, the driver examiner for the North Carolina Department of
Motor Vehicles ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I did.
Mr. Nittle. He identified you as the Jay Jacobs to whom he gave a
driver's examination and road test on July 26, 1963, and as the person
who made application for a driver's license at Carrboro, North Caro-
lina. Was there any inaccuracy m the testimony of Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. I now hand you a copy of the application for a North
Carolina driver's license, form DL-240, which bears the signature of
Jay Jacobs, the applicant, and that is marked for identification as
"Indenbaum Exhibit No. 2-A." Is that your signature?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. I would offer this exhibit into evidence, Mr. Chair-
man.
Mr. Pool. Withoutobjection, it is so ordered.
(Document previously marked for identification as "Sherman Ex-
hibit No. 1." See p. 844.)
Mr. Nittle. In this application, Mr. Indenbaum, Mr. Sherman testi-
fied you responded to the question, "Have you ever been licensed as an
opera;tor or driver," that you had not ever been licensed. This was not
true, was it ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Sherman also testified that you gave him informa-
tion as to your birth date being February 2, 1982. This wasn't true,
was it ?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 875
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Pool. State your answer again.
Mr. Indenbadtvi. I said I refuse to answer 'that on the same grounds.
Mr. NiTTLE. Having made application on July 26, 1963, for a driver's
license at Carrboro, this license was not immediately issued to you by
the Department of Motor Vehicles, was it ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. The committee's investigation shows that the license
was actually issued on July 29, 1963, and mailed to Jay Jacobs at Route
#1, Box 141-B, Durham, North Carolina, which was the address
you gave.
Would you tell the committee, please, by what means and by whom
the license was delivered to you after it was forwarded to that address
in Durham ? '
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer on the grounds I previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is it not a fact that you made application for this
driver's license at Carrboro, in North Carolina, for the purpose of ob-
taining an identification as Jay Jacobs so that you might obtain the
refunds claimed from BOAC and KLM Airlines ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the groimds I previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. You have also heard the testimony of Miss Brunhilde
Linke, an employee of KLM Airlines ; have you not ?
Mr. Indenbaum. Yes. I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. Miss Lirtke testified that you appeared at the KLM
offices in New York City in the latter part of August — August 26,
1963 — at which time you were seeking a rebate for the tickets. She
testified that you identified yourself as Jay Jacobs.
She further testified she was present on August 27, 1963, and ob-
served her superior, Mr. van der Jagt, hand the check to you.
Do you have any coiTection to make in the testimony of Miss Linke?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you present during the testimony of Mr. Edward
O'Neill, manager of the ticket office of BOAC?
Mr. Indenbaum. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. He testified he issued a check to you as Jay Ja obs in
the amount of $4,134.40. Do you deny the testimony of Mr. O'Neill ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. I hand you a photostatic copy of the check to which I
have just referred, dated at New York August 26, 1963, drawn by
BOAC, payable to the order of Jay Jacobs, Route 1, Box 141 B,
Durham, North Carolina, payable through the First National City
Bank of New York. The check is marked for identification as "Inden-
baum Exhibit No. 3."
Is it not a fact that this a copy of the check that was handed to you
by Edward R. O'Neill on August 26, 1963 ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I previously
stated.
876 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit No. 3 in evidence.
Mr. Pool. Without objection it is so ordered.
(Document previously marked for identification as "O'Neill Exhibit
No. 3." Seep. 864.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you not later endorse tliis check with the name
"Jay Jacobs" at the National City Bank at 42d and Madison Avenue ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. I direct your attention to the endorsement on Exhibit
No. 3. Is that not your signature ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that quesftion on the grounds I
previously stated.
Mr. NnTLE. I also direct your attention to the endorsement appear-
ing thereon, that the teller identified you from a State of Nor<th Caro-
lina driver's license number 1230513. Did you exhibit that driver's
license to identify yourself at the time you sought to cash this check
at the bank?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds that I pre-
viously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. O'Neill also testified that his business records
demonstrate that BOAC issued tickets to two individuals on June 13,
1963, in the name of A. Indenbaum and V. Ortiz for travel to London
and Paris. He did not meet with A. Indenbaum or V. Ortiz, on
whose behalf the ticket was purchased. Are you the A. Indenbaum
for whom a ticket was purchased from BO^.C at New York on June
23,1963?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Barry Hoffman, who participated in the student
travel to Cuba, testified that one Vickie Ortiz joined the student group
in Prague, Czechoslovakia, at the time of the arrival of the student
group there in the latter part of June, but that Vickie Ortiz did not
travel from New York with the student group.
Did you travel to London and Paris witn Vickie Ortiz on June 16
and 17, 1963?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer tKat on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you travel on to Prague, Czechoslovakia, with
her?
Mr. Indenbaum. It sounds like the same question, but I repeat my
answer.
Mr. Pool. You what ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I repeat my answer to the previous one.
Mr. Pool. You refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment?
Mr. Indenbaum. That is right, on the grounds also that I pre-
viously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. When you departed aboard BOAC on June 16, 1963,
to London and thence to Pans, was it your purpose to travel to Paris
to make advance arrangements for the reception of the 50-odd stu-
dents who left New York on June 25, 1963, by BOAC and KLM ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 877
Mr. NiTTLE. From whom did you receive financial assistance in ac-
quiring your ticket for travel to London aboard BOAC on June 16,
1963?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr, NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, did you hear the testimony of David
Perham, an employee of the First National City Bank at 640 Fifth
Avenue, New York ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I did.
Mr. NiTPLE. He testified that when you applied to the bank to.
cash the KLM check of August 27, 1963, you exhibited to him your
North Carolina driver's license and a photograph of yourself. Thus,
you identified yourself as the Jay Jacob named as the payee in the
check.
Was there any inaccuracy in the testimony of Mr. Perham ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, the committee's investigation discloses
that Levi Lee Laub obtained travel reservations and purchased a
ticket upon Trans Canadian Air Lines Flight 621 for travel to Ottawa,
Canada, June 8, 1963. This was 2 days prior to the time we are in-
formed payment was made at Ottawa.
Were you aware of the arrangements made by Laub for this travel ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Investigation made by staff members of this com-
mittee has disclosed that the Bank of Cuba has funds on deposit
with the Royal Bank of Canada at Montreal and with the Bank
of Nova Scotia in Torr i to, Canada. Our investigation has further
disclosed that funds from these banks have been transferred from the
Bank of Cuba account to persons here in the United States, as well as
in Canada.
We are also aware that Mr. Laub, together with another person, was
in possession of large amounts of United States currency while in
Canada, currency carried in a brown leather briefcase for payment
to KLM and BOAC in Ottawa.
Do you have knowledge whether or not the American currency was
obtained in Canada and, therefore, paid in Ottawa rather than in
New York?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds I
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us what disposition you made of the
refund which you obtained from the offices of KLM and BOAC at
New York amounting in excess of $6,000 ? What did you do with it ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. Did you deliver this cash to any person known to
you to be an agent of Fidel Castro ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds I previously
stated.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Indenbaum, I have before me a photostatic copy
of a certification of the Commissioners of Elections of the City of
New York dated August 25, 1950, marked for identification as "In-
denbaum Exhibit No. 4," which certifies to the election of Arnold
878 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES IN U.S.
Indenbaum of 763 Ocean Parkway as a delegate to the American
Labor Party, Second Judicial District Convention, representing the
21st Assembly District in the County of Kings at the primary election
held August 22, 1950.
Are you not the Arnold Indenbaum who was elected on August
22, 1950, as a delegate to the American Labor Party convention?
You may review the certification if you wish, I hand you thai
exhibit.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Now, would you answer the question, please ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds I
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. I also have before me, marked for identification as
"Indenbaum Exhibit No. 5" a photostatic copy of the American Labor
Party 1951 Fall Primary Designating Petition. I hand you this
exhibit and direct your attention to the name Arnold Indenbaum,
which appears upon the petition as a person seeking the party posi-
tion of Member of the County Committee of the American Labor
Party from the 21st Assembly District of Kings County, whose ad-
dress is given as 763 Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn, New York.
Are you not the Arnold Indenbaum who is named thereon ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. You will also note in the exhibit that the candidate
for the office of President of the Council of the City of New York is
named as Clifford T. McAvoy. Mr. McAvoy was a well-known Com-
munist Party functionary.
Did you know Clifford T. McAvoy to be a member of the Communist
Party at the time you sought office with him and others named upon
the petition?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. I also hand you a photostatic copy of the American
Labor Party 1951 Fall Primary Designating Petition, marked for
identification as "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 6." I direct your attention
to the affidavit contained at the lower portion of the petition by the
witness Arnold Indenbaum, who makes affidavit that he was a duly
qualified voter and residing at 763 Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn, New
York, and that the voters whose names are subscribed to the petition
subscribed to the same in his presence.
Is the signature of the witness Arnold Indenbaum, appearing upon
the exhibit, your signature?
Mr. Indenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Indenbaum, the New York City section of the
American Labor Party was cited by the Special Committee on Un-
American Activities on March 29, 1944 —
Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, just a second. Are you offering these as
exhibits now ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Pool. It is so ordered, without objection.
(Documents marked "Indenbaum Exhibits Nos. 4, 5, and 6," re-
spectively, and retained in committee files. )
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIYITIES IN U.S. 879
Mr. NiTTLE. I was pointing out to Mr. Indenbaum that the New
York City section of the American Labor Party was cited by the
Special Committee on Un-American Activities on March 29, 1944,
and by the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee of the Senate
Judiciitry Committee on April 23, 1956, as a subversive organization.
The latter committee reported as follows :
Communist dissimulation extends into the field of political parties forming
political front organizations such as the * * * American Labor Party. The Com-
munists are thus enabled to present their candidates for elective oflSce under other
than a straight Communist laljel.
The question I would like to ask you, Mr. Indenbaum, is: Were
you personally counseled or advised to seek office in the American
Labor Party by any person known to you to be a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Indenbaum. Is the American Labor Party so designated as a
subversive organization by the Attorney General ?
Mr. JoHANSEN. I siiggest the witness be directed to answer the
question.
Mr. Pool. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Pool. You are refusing to answer on the grounds of the fifth
amendment and other grounds which you previously stated ?
Mr. Indenbaum. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. I also have before me an application for a passport
filed by you on April 2, 1959, with the agent of the Department of
State at New York City. This application we have marked for iden-
tification as "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 7," which I now hand to you
and ask you whether or not that is a true copy of your application?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
I previously stated.
(Document marked "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 2." See pp. 880-883.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Is not the signature "Arnold Indenbaum," subscribed
to the affidavit on page 4 of the application, your signature ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. I direct your attention to page 2 of the application
where the questions appear : "Are you now a member of the Communist
Party ? Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?"
I note that you did not respond to those questions. Was there some
reason for your not doing so ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Indenbaum. What was that question again, please ?
Mr. NiTTLE. You did not respond to the questions in your passport
application form where the inquiry is made of you, "Are you now a
member of the Communist Party? Have you ever been a member of
the Communist Party ?•' Was there some reason for your not doing so ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Tndeiibaum, were you a member of the Communist
Party at the time yon filed your passport application on April 2, 1959 ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I dexiline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
880 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
(Document marked "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 7" follows.)
Indenbaum Exhibit No. 7
r8nn DSP-ix
(lJ-ll-47)
furw •
Bodfcl
larfmu No. 47-Ra61.7.
aCPAMTMCMT OT *TAT«
PASSPORT APPLICATION
All QMraMry iDfomMtkm and ffuldsncr will be dvrn applicaot br the clrrfc of tbr Prdenl or wtbortvd
8Ut« Court, or tht PMtport A(eDt befor* whom this applicmtLon mint br rumtM. Th« k«al fev (or • pus-
port U 19 plm II for rweattaK applloiloQ (Clrrts of Stat^ Courts arr aathorlxcd to oolkct O for mcutlai
appllfttoa ) OoD't tmf uiy otb«r k« to aurooe for OUIdk to or fiecutlnf this appllcfttloD or for obuininc
the pacsport cicrpt piftlagf asd/or necfts^ry irlrphooe or telecrapb chufw.
f AIT I— TO n COMPtETED lY m APfUOJITS
' THE I
iMfui. smaouTmMHPMDmcsBvNotoaoittrM^v)
rt^c 1 1? j^^' .^^y^^i ^ .-I
or THE UNnXD STATES (BY MITTH) (TNROUGH NATUIULIZATIOM). DO HEMBY Am.T TO THE
OETARTUENT Of STATE FOR A PASSTO«T
400 aOT UH TUB VACH
>
ruMAHCNT RcsiocMciiniBT acoKss . CTTT. nan)
D.-i-^U
J ^1
t^.::^..
OATCtfWITH
njict or iniTii (mm oi
'AST 5 '
/^/><"^ t
unoitauRVT)
±
- ^> ^
I HAVE BEEN ASSENT .FROM THE U S. DURING THE PASTS YEARS AT THE FOLLOWING PLACES FOR THE PERIODS STATED (LIST ABSENCES OF
MORE THAN 2 MONTHS' DURATION) (IF ADDITK3NAL SPACE IS NEEDED A SUPPLEMENTAL SHEET SHOULD BE USED AND ATTACHED i
nioil (aami otr lUK
.St.iM »ii..ii.A >t..i.
TO (mmi OAT TUB)
^^
FATMR-S NAHC
rtTwii'S nja ar«imi
£3 U.S. ciuuii
D i«ul U. n Clliirn
rATMOi's DAii or Hmt
n/i>i
f ^/
■oTMn^wun
7
/■e SA J yi^:Utt/i^n
Fstlwr nsMrd lo V S.
^ U S. Citiun
D ^•"' ': 8. Ciuien
WTMni UTi or mrra
LHAM
Motb«r ivsMfd in V. S.
From /^<. Vj
L^
0^1 «u never BiarTlad
OATCOritAMttASf
OF H(;SSAMO OR WIFE
HUSBAND'S OR W1FE3 ftACE OF OIRTM,
HUSIAND3 O* wm-S DATE OF HRTH
QwaSKa or Wife Is U. 8. ClUttil
iD^Smtrad or wilt H WOT U. 0. CIUmm
HUStANOO« WIFE NOW RCSIDme AT
Q.Mtrmc*oo< KnnlnUfld
C]-MwTlfl«« uiuiUiMed by (d€aM> (dlrijiOl)Uil —
DESCRIPTION OF APPLICANT
HtWHT
0rf O ^V
/^,lei^,^
VISIBLE 0ISTIN6UISHIN6 MARKS OA FEATURES
FIACC or BIRTH
Bp-^)>-L,.i,' jjy ^1 ^SA
JFAtnM
SATE OF BIRTH
(■ONTNJ (DAY) (ItAR)
H/t/f -*-
MY LAST PASSPORT WAS OBTAINED FROM (NOTE IF mCLUOCO^NABOTHER S
FASBPORT STATE HAME of BEARER)
LOCATION OF ISSUING OFTICC
OATEOFOSUANCC
Nuaber:
D Sobnlttcd for csneeUntlon
D OUwd
ft^
J y
MAIL PASSPORT TO
/f^/yOl^P ^^/Ou/i-K^/t'-M
f-?7 fl^^l /^Uc.
^y^U-l^jiCy^ /C. A-'. -I
(DO NOT UU TMK <PACt)
'.-rh'
FEE EXEC. TWX POST.
Mr. Pool. You decline to answer it on the grounds of the fifth
amendment, is that correct ?
Mr. Indenbaum. On the gi-ounds of the fifth amendment and the
other grounds I previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Proceed.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
881
i D8P-11 (l»-l^i.')
(M«T I— CeaOnaO
PROPOSED TRAVEL PLANS
TUVtlMe IT OMANIICD TOUR'
D v«
KIT or MMriTUIIC
^ 'C<^ '/iA'-
NAME OF SHIP OR AIRUNE
yCAPtS OF TRANSK>ftTATION
SNIP AIR OTHER
Dtptftura D ^ D
Rftum Q ^i D
PURPOSE or TRIP
PROfOSCD LEHGTM Of STAY
3-fv4 /ft,^ (^'^
p^
APfllOXIMATC DATI Of OCPARTUM
NUMBER OF PREVIOUS TRIPS
ABROAD WITHIN LAST M MOMTHS
/6>.-
WCULO YOU nCASC INDICATf WHrTHCR YOU
CXPECT TOTAKE ANOTHER TRIP A9R0AD IN THE
NEXT
D VfAT D 2 tttn O » Yean
LIST EACH CtXIHTRY TO BE VISITED
ARE YOU NOW A MEMtER OF THE COMMUMlSTntffTVT
(WHITE ■•YES" OR ' NO ) ^^^""^
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY?
(WRITE "YES OR ' HO ")
IF even A MEMBCR. STATE RCRIOO Of MEMBERSHIP
^
PERSONS TO BE INCLUDED IN PASSPORT
THIS SECTION OF PART I TO BE COMPLETED IF WIFE OR HUSBAND OF APPLICANT (WHOSE PHOTOGRAPHIC UKEHESS MUST BE INCLUDED IN GROUP PHOTO WITH
APPLICANT. ATTACHED TO THIS PAGE) IS TO BE INCLUDED IN APPLICANT S PASSPORT
(WIFrSt (HUSBAND SI FULL LEGAL NAME
(WIFE'S) (HUSBAND'S) LAST U. S PASSPORT WAS OBTAINED FROM
tOCATION Of ISSUING OFFICE
DAI EOF ISSUANCE
Number:
D 8ubniitt«d h«n«ltb
D Other dlspoeltloo (Sutc>
THISSECTION OF PART 1 TO BE COMPLETED IF CHILDREN OF APPLICANT (WHOSE PHOTOGRAPHIC LIKENESSES MuST BE INCLUDED IN CROUP PHOTO ATTACHED TO THIS
PAGE) ARE TO BE INCLUDED IN APPLICANT S PASSPORT
NAME IN FULL
PLACE OF BIRTH (CITT. STATE)
DATE OF BIRTH
RESIDED IN FROM TO
THCU S
HOW RESIDING AT
NAME IN FULL
PLACE OF BIRTH (city STATf)
DATE OF BIRTH
RESIDCD m FROM TO
THE U S.
NOW RESIDING AT
NAME IN FULL
PLACE OF BIRTH (OTY. STATt)
DATE OF BIRTH
RESIDED IN FROM TO
THE U S
NOW RESIDIN6 AT
ATTACH SHEET GIVING ABOVE INFORMATION ON ANY ADDITIONAL CHILDREN TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS PASSPORT
NOTE IfAppllcaniorany minor Included In Ihls application was born ouliidelhernUtdStftles on Of »/ler May34. 1«M. of An 9X\tn pai-fol and an AmerUan pvtat.
> supplemrnUl affldavU will be required rlvinf th« n&mr and date and place of birth of American parent as well as complete daU concerning how and on what date
parent acquiird American dtltenViip uid tbe periods of resldenoe Lo tbe I'nited States aad ahroftd (Unless such intormatlon 1> already (tlveo In thb application.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1950
when you held the position of delegate to [Second Judicial District
Convention] the American Labor Party ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
882
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
rotm DSP-ii (ii-ia-sn
IF »NT OnKHMtWTS INCIUOEO. ;T*M Ht«E OWIY-
MIIT II— TO IE COMPinED lY M *fH.ICMIT WHO lECOME * CITI2EN THK0U6H OWW WWUmiWiOM
IIUMtCIUTCDTOTHEU S
I XeSIOCD COMTINUOUM.T M THC U S
FIIO«(TUIU TO (nM)
CERTIf ICATC or NATUMUZATIOM
NO
D Submliud iMrwItb
Q Pravlouslr lubinltuil
I WAS MATUMLnCD KTOOE THE (Mat Or CSUn)
I HESIDCD AT (CfTC Vkmi
DATE NATURALIZED
riACE NATUMIUCD (Omr. tlAII)
KroME NATURALIZATION I WAS A NATIONAL or (NANC EACH COUNTRT)
PART III— TO BE COMPLETED IT AN APPLICANT WHO CLAIMS CITIZENSHIP THROUGH PARENT(S)
PMT IV^TO IE COMPLETED IT AN APPLICANT WHOSE WIFE (II UN li to ta IwluM In »>s«er1). ACQUIRED CITIZENSHIP THROUGH
NATURALIZATION OF HERSELF. HER FATHER. OR A FORMER HUSIANO
1 IMMI6MTC0 TO THC U S
MOKTH VtU •
1 RESIDED CONTINUOUSLY IN THE U. S
FnOW(VCAR} TO (TEAR)
IF FATHER NAruRALIZCD (DATEI
CERTlFtCATt OF NAtURALlZATION
MA
Q Submitted hmvith
O PravtouBly mbmliMd
FATHCR NATURALIZED KPME (mw Of CDUin)
RIACC NATURALIZED <Cirr. STATE)
FATtttft IteSIDCD COMTIHUOUSLY IN
THCU S
MOTHER RESIDED CONTlNUOUSLt IN
TMEU S
FROM (TIAR) TO (YEAR)
IF MOTHER NATURALIZED (DATE)
CERTIFICATE OF NATURALIZATION
HA
O Submitted banwltb
O Pnvloiuly Kibmittad
MOTHER NATURALIZED BEFORE (NAMC OF COURT)
PLACE NATURAUZED (OTT. STATE)
MV WIFE IMMIGRATED TO THE U. S ON
(DATE)
O SHE WAS NATURALIZED ON
Q HER FATHER WAS NATURALIZED ON
Q HER FORMER HUSBAND WAS NATURAUZED ON
BEFORE THE (MHI or COUNT)
FLACE NATURALIZED (OTT. STATt]
AS SHOWN BY THE ACCOMFANVIMG CERTIFICATE OF NATURALIZATION NO .
SINCE NATURALIZATION MY WIFE HAS BEEN ABSENT FROM THE U S. AT THE FOLLOWING PLACES FOR THE FOLLOWING PERIODS
PLACE (NAiiC EACH C0L>NT1IT VfSITEO)
FMOM (OATl OF DCMimjnC fNOM TIC U S ) TO (DATE OF NETUIM TO TW a S.)
PART V— TO BE COMPLETED BY A FEMALE APPLICANT WHO HAS BEEN MARRIED MORE THAN ONCE OR BY MALE APPLICANT
WHOSE WIFE IS TO BE INCLUDED IN PASSPORT (Strlkt out Ittms In paranthssas below whIcD do not apply)
(MY) (HER) MAIDEN NAME WAS
(1 WAS) (SHE WAS) DATE OF PREVIOUS MARRIAGE
Q Not previously marrlMl
D Previously marrM on
NAME OF FORMER HUSBAND
PLACE OF PREVIOUS MARRIAGE
FORMER HUSBAND S FLACE OF BIRTH
MARR
s
AGEWASTENMINATEOn gjATE
D<mlh
Divorce
(If married more than twic*. set forth facts in t supplemental siatemenli |
PART VI— TO IE COMPLHED IT A FEMALE APPLICANT WHOSE HUSIANO OR FORMER HUSIANO WAS NOT lORN IN THE U. S.
MY Q HUSBAND IMMIGRATEOTOTHEU S. ON
(OATl)
U FORMER HUSMND
Dhe
g his father (intuit name}
WAS NATURALIZED (EFORE THE (MHE OF COURTI
PLACE NATURALIZED (CITT. STATE)
DATE or NATURALIZATION (H0N1H. OAT TEAR)
AS SHOWN BY CERTIFICATE OF NATURALIZATION
NO fl fiilhmlll**1 h^PMunih Q Pr«vinii«ly «iihmiiiMl
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1951
when you sought the party position as member of the County Com-
mittee of the American Labor Party for the 21st Assembly District,
as appears on the 1951 Fall Primary Designating Petition of the
American Labor Party ?
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 883
rvrm D(U«-ii ii>-ia-«7)
I havf not (and my wife and/«ir my children have not). Rince acquiring Americas cttisenship, been naturaliged aa a
citiion or asi citizeiui of a foreign «talo; taken an oath or made an Affirmation or other formal declaration of allexiance to a
foreign state; entered or served in the armed services of a foreign state; accepted or performed the duties of any office, post,
or employment under the government of a foreign State or political subdivision thereof; voted in a political election In a
foreign state or participated in an election or plebiscite to determine the sovereignty over foreign territory; made a formal
renunciation of nationality either in the United States or before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a
foreign state; ever sought or claimed the i>enefits of the nationality of any foreign state; been convicted by a court of
competent jurisdiction of deserting the armed services of the United States in time of war, or ol committing or of conspiring
to commit any act of treason against, or of attempting by force to overthrow, or of bearing arms against the United States;
departed from or remained outride of the jurisdiction of the United States for the purpose of evading or avoiding training
and service in the armed services of the United States.
(//any of Ote above-mentiontd arte or condilunu kate keen ptrformtd by or apply to Uu applitant, or to kit tcift or hit childnn
{when included in this application), the portion which appliet thould be struck out, and a tuppUmentary itplanatory itatemeru
under oath should be attached and made a part hereof.]
I solemnly swear that the sUtemenU made on all the pages of this application are true and that the photograph attached
hereto is a likeness of me and of those people to be included in my passport.
OATH OF ALLEGIANCE
Further, I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,
foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I take this obligation freely, without
any mental reservations, or purpose of evasion: So help me God.
(TO K sesm ST urucun m aUKZ or > odk ofCxmon
MSSran ACCNT)
Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of , ig .
(bkal or conBT)
Clerk ttfOu i;GEMI..i).^..JjL'.'.';.VCourt a< ....,
Patsport Agent, Department of SlaU, at'^V.ii.2. y^i^)f. j/K.l.Srr.^
AFFIDAVIT Oli^BtTlrnMa WITNESS
I, the undersigned, solemnly swear that I am a citizen of the United States; that I reside at the address written below my
signature hereto affixed; that I know the applicant who executed the affidavit hereinbefore set forth to be a citizen of the United
States; that the statements made in the applicant's affidavit are true to the best of my knowledge and belief; further, 1 solemnly
swear that I have known the applicant for years.
IF arTNESS HAS BtEN ISSUED A PASSPOST. GIVE MUMKR IF KNOWN AND DATE OR A^ (to St SICWO BT wmcss IN nssENCX cr A CIISK Of COURT OR PASSKRT ACENT)
RROXIMATE DATE OF ISSUE.
. DATE OF ISSUE
(KlATiaN»aP TO AmJCAMT. r NOT MLATID. » CTATf}
No iRwyer or oUitr pen«n win br Accepted aa witnMA to A poASPort Appllestloo
If tie t)A3 received cr eipecte to receive a lec for hb lervloeA lo oonnectlon vltli
the execution of t)ie APpllCAtlon or obtolnlnf the pMiport.
B AfiORBAOF afTmS)
Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of , 19..
(seal or coubt)
Clerk of the _ Court at
Patsport Agent,- Department of Slate, at
I S GOVERHHEm MINTING OFTKE 1914—0-456072
Mr. Pool. Do you now offer that application for passport into
evidence ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you now a member of the Progressive Labor Move-
ment ?
884 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Indenbaum. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, this concludes the staff interrogation
of this witness. However, in view of the fact that our investigation
is continuing, it may be desirable to offer additional documentation
and reports for the record. We request permission to make such
additions to the record as may appear desirable at a later date.
Mr. Pool. If there is no objection, it is so ordered.
Are there any questions from the committee ?
You are excused.
The committee is adjourned, pending the call of the Chair.
(Wliereupon, at 3 :20 p.m. Wednesday, October 16, 1963, the sub-
committee recessed, subject to the call of the (/hair.)
VIOLATIONS OF STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL REGU-
LATIONS AND PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVI
TIES IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 4
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1963
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D.C.
public hearings
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Room 445, Cannon House Office Build-
ing, Hon. Richard H. Ichord (chairman of the subcommittee) pre-
siding.
Subcommittee members: Representatives Richard H. Ichord, of
Missouri ; George F. tenner, Jr., of Arizona ; and August E. Johansen,
of Michigan.
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Ichord, Senner,
and Johansen.
Committee members also present: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of
Texas; Donald C. Bruce, of Indiana; and Henry C. Schadeberg, of
Wisconsin. (Appearances as noted.)
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; Alfred M.
Nittle, counsel ; and Louis J. Russell, investigator.
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
The Chair observes that members of the subcommittee, Mr. Johan-
sen and Mr. Senner are present ; therefore a quorum is present.
The subcommittee is convened to continue hearings, begun here in
Washington on May 6 of this year, on certain matters and for the
legislative purposes set forth in a committee resolution adopted April
24, 1963. I will read the text of that resolution and a summarization
of the chairman's May 6 statement concerning the purposes and sub-
ject matter of these hearings.^
I will now read for the record the order of appointment of the sub-
committee conducting these hearings :
NOVEMBEE 14, 1963.
To : Francis J. McNamara,
Director, Committee on Un-American Activities.
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the rules of this Committee, I
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, con-
1 For resolution and summarization of chairman's opening statement of May 6, 1963, see
pp. 827-829.
98-765 O— 6S— pt. 4 6 885
886 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN tJ.S.
sisting of Honorable Richard Ichord as Chairman, and Honorable George F.
Senner, Jr., and Honorable August E. Johansen as associate members, to conduct
a hearing in Washington, D.C. on Monday, November 18, 1963, at 10 a.m., on
subjects under investigation by the Committee and take such testimony on said
day or succeeding days, as it may deem necessary.
Please make this action a matter of Committee record.
If any Member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.
Given under my hand this 14th day of November, 1963.
/s/ Edwin E. Willis,
Edwin E. Willis,
Chairman, Committee on Vn-Amcrican Activities.
A quorum is present. Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed?
Mr. NiTTLE, Yes, sir. Will Mr. Harold Wilkes please come for-
ward ?
Mr. IcHORD. Will the witness remain standing to be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this committee will be the trutli, the wliole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Wilkes. I do.
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD GLENN WILKES
Mr. IcHORD. The witness may be seated. Is the witness represented
by counsel ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Is your counsel present in the committee room ?
Mr. Wilkes. No, not by legal counsel.
Mr. IcHORD. You are not represented by legal counsel ?
Mr. Wilkes. No.
Mr. IcHORD. You do not desire to be represented by counsel?
Mr. Wilkes. No,
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with the preliminary questions.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Wilkes, would you state your full name and resi-
dence for the record, please ?
Mr. Wilkes. Harold G. Wilkes, Glenn is my middle name.
Mr. Nittle. Harold Glenn Wilkes?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes. My residence is Rural Route 9, Bloomington,
Indiana.
Mr. Nittle. Would you state the date and place of your birth ?
Mr. Wilkes. Vincennes, Indiana, March 29, 1982.
Mr. Nittle. By whom are you employed and in what capacity?
Mr. Wilkes. I am employed by the Franklin Manufacturing Com-
pany at Bloomington, Indiana. This is a division of the Studebaker
Corporation. I am employed as the warehouse supervisor.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Wilkes, you are appearing here under subpena
today ; are you not '?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. In connection with your dwelling at Bloomington, Indi-
ana, you have an apartment therein which you rent to other persons;
is that true?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. Do you recall renting this apartment to persons identi-
fying themselves as Mr. and Mrs. John Glenn ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 887
Mr. NiTTLE. How did you happen to get the Glenns as tenants ?
Mr. Wilkes. I inserted an ad in one of the local newspapers, and
they responded to that ad.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us when this rental to the Glenns took
place?
Mr. Wilkes. Around the middle of August.
Mr, NiTTLE. Of what year ?
Mr. Wilkes. 1962.
Mr. NiTTLE. Approximately how long did they remain your tenants ?
Mr. Wilkes. Approximately 9 months.
Mr. NiTTLE. After you rented this apartment to the Glenns, did it
come to your attention that numerous persons were visiting the
apartment ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. "\^nien did you take particular notice of this fact?
Mr. Wilkes. We noticed a regularity in the meetings around Janu-
ary. We didn't take particular notice of it until around the middle of
March.
Mr. JoHANSEN. What year was that?
Mr. Wilkes. 1963.
Mr. NiTTLE. 'Wliat drew your attention to the meeting in March
1963?
Mr. Wilkes. The meeting in March had a spokesman from another
organization in attendance.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us the circumstances?
Mr. Wilkes. This person was an instructor from out of State —
New York, specifically. His manner of speaking, the subject matter,
and the terminology that he used concerned us very greatly.
Mr. Nittle. Would you tell us about that in more detail ?
Mr. Wilkes. Specifically, he encouraged the other people in attend-
ance to be faithful to the membership in the organization that he was
addressing.
He referred specifically to the present system of government as an
"imperialistic, capitalistic system." He encouraged the members also
of the group that he was addressing — he didn't encourage them, but
he stated that it was only a matter of time until, through their efforts
and other groups' efforts, the system would be replaced.
Mr. Nitfle. In what manner was he addressed by the group, and in
what manner did he address the group ?
Mr. Wilkes. He was identified only as "a comrade from New York."
He, in turn, addressed the members of the group as "comrades."
Mr. Nittle. Was any reference made to the name of the group he
was addressing?
Mr. Wilkes. TheYSA.
Mr. Nittle. Were you in a position to overhear the conversations
which took place in the apartment ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. Would you tell us what made that possible?
Mr. Wilkes. Through a common system of ductwork — by common,
I mean the Iieating ductwork for their apartment was the same as the
ductwork for our living area and the house proper.
Mr. Nittle. Would you describe their apartment in relation to your
dwelling?
888 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Wilkes. It is below our living area and on the same plane with
our basement. In other words, due to the lay of the ground, the front
entrance is on ground level, but the back [basement] entrance is also
on groimd level. The ground level in the front extends to the back and
is the second floor in the back.
Mr. NiTTLE. "VVliat system of heating do you have in your home?
Mr. Wilkes. Coal furnace; forced air.
Mr. NiTTLE. Your living room was directly above the apartment?
Mr. Wilkes. Our kitchen and dining room were directly above.^
Mr. NiTTLE. Your kitchen and dining room were directly above the
apartment ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is there a connection between the apartment and your
kitchen and dining room ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, that particular room has not only common duct-
work, but a common register. The register in the floor of our living
area is the same register that's in the ceiling of their living room.
Mr. NiTTLE. You described the organization mentioned in the course
of the instructor's convereation with the group as "YSA." Did you
later learn what the initials "YSA" stood for?
Mr. Wilkes. The Young Socialist Alliance.
Mr. NiTTLE. Following this meeting in March, did you observe the
frequency with which these meetings were held in your apartment?
Mr. Wilkes. Once a month, generally within the first week of the
month.
Mr. NiTTLE. Ordinarily, how many persons were in attendance at
these meetings?
Mr. Wilkes. The attendance would vary from 7 to 15 persons.
Mr. NiTTLE. Over how long a period of time did you observe these
meetings to take place?
Mr. Wilkes. Until the last of May.
Mr. NiTTLE. Can you tell us the names of the persons who attended
these meetings?
Mr. Wilkes. There was Ralph Levitt ; Jim Bingham ; Tom Morgan ;
Bill and Paulann Groninger; the Glenns, of course; Jack and Betsy
Barnes; and, on some occasions, the Smith couple — that is, Don and
Polly — attended. On other occasions people attended who I can't
identify.
Mr. Nittle. Were Marcia Glenn and John Robert Glenn in at-
tendance at these meetings?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Chairman, committee information identifies the
persons mentioned by Mr. Wilkes, as follows :
Ralph Levitt is or was the head of the Young Socialist Alliance in
Bloomington, Indiana. He was also associated with the Fair Play for
Cuba Student Council at the University of Indiana during the period
1961 to 1963, and was the original lessee of the post office box in
Bloomington, Indiana, for the Fair Play for Cuba Student Council.
James Bingham, in 1961 and 1962, was, respectively, the treasurer
and chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba Student Council of the
University of Indiana. In 1962 and 1963 Bingham was secretary of
the Young Socialist All iance at the University of Indiana.
PRO-CASTHO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 889
Paulann Gronino^er is a member of the Young Socialist Alliance in
Bloominofton, Indiana. She is also the secretary of an organization
known as the Committee to Aid the Bloomington Students, the latter
having: been set up by the Young Socialist Alliance in Bloomington
to defend three Indiana University students who have been indicted
for conspiracy to overthrow the government of the State of Indiana,
in violation of an Indiana statute.
The indicted students are Ralph Levitt, James E. Bingham, and
Thomas G. Morgan, all officers of the Young Socialist Alliance and the
Fair Play for Cuba Student Council of the University of Indiana.
William Groninger is a member of the Young Socialist Alliance in
Indiana at Bloomington and is the husband of Paulann Groninger,
secretarv of the Committee to Aid the Bloomington Students.
Jack Banies is or was a student at Northwestern University. He is
identified as an organizer for the Young Socialist Alliance in the Mid-
west area of the United States.
Mr. Wilkes, can you state whether, as a matter within your knowl-
edge, that from time to time the meetings held by this group in the
Glenn apartment were addressed by persons who came from other
States or localities?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Will you tell us about that ?
Mr. Wilkes. On at least one occasion there was a guest speaker from
New York. The Barnes were also from out of State.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliile the Glenns resided at your apartment, did you
ever hear Marcia Glenn refer to herself as the recording secretary of
the Young Socialist Alliance ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Could you tell us when that was and the circumstances ?
Mr. Wilkes. This was in a conversation with James Bingham.
They were getting a lot of adverse publicity locally at that time, and
she asked whether she should or should not resign as the correspond-
ing secretary.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wlien did this conversation take place, approximately ?
Mr. Wilkes. In the middle of May, around the 20th.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Wilkes, I am going to ask Mr. Russell to hand you
certain publications marked for identification as "Wilkes Exhibits
Nos. 1-13," inclusive, which you have delivered to the committee
recently.
Exhibit 1 is a pamphlet entitled 1948 Manifesto of the Fourth In-
ternational Against Wall Street and the Kremlin^ published by the
Workers Press for the Revolutionary Workers Party, Canadian Sec-
tion, 4th International, 87 King Street West, Room 5, Toronto, On-
tario.
Exhibit 2 is a pamphlet entitled Trotskyism and the Cuban Revolu-
tion— An Answer to Hoy by Joseph Hansen, reprinted from The Mili-
tant by Pioneer Publishers, 116 University Place, New York City.
Exhibit 3 is a pamphlet entitled In Defense of the Cuban Revolu-
tion: An Answer to the State Department and Tlieodore Draper by
Joseph Hansen, published by the Pioneer Publishers, 116 University
Place, New York City, New York.
Exhibit 4 is a pamphlet entitled The Truth About Cuba by Joseph
Hansen, also published by Pioneer Publishers.
890 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Exhibit 5 is a pamphlet entitled A List of Puhlications on Socialism
and the Labor Movement, published by Pioneer Publishers.
Exhibit 6 is a pamphlet entitled The Theory of the Cuban Revolu-
tion by Joseph Hansen, published by Pioneer Publishers.
Exhibit 7 is a pamphlet entitled Too Many Babies? by Joseph Han-
sen, published by Pioneer Publishers.
Exhibit 8 is a pamphlet entitled Only Victorious Socialist R&ooliir
tions Can Prevent the Third World War!, published by Pioneer
Publishers.
Exhibit 9 is a pamphlet entitled The Long View of History by Wil-
liam F. Warde, published by Pioneer Publishers.
Exhibit 10 is a pamphlet entitled The Socialist Workers Party by
Joseph Hansen, published by Pioneer Publishers.
Exhibit 11 is a booklet entitled History of the International Social-
ist Youth Movement to 1929, a Younjr Socialist Forum publication.
Exhibit 12 is a pamphlet entitled Why Can't Everybody Ha/ve a
Job? by Fred Halstead, bearing the stamp of YSA, P.O. Box 915,
Bloomington, Indiana.
Exhibit 13 is a song sheet headed "Revolutionary and Workers'
Songs" carrying the verses of the "Internationale," "The Red Flag,"
and Solidarity."
Mr. Wilkes, would you tell us how these publications came into your
possession ?
Mr. Wilkes. I had occasion to enter the apartment one time to make
repairs and I saw these things existed in quantity in the apartment.
This, in line with what I had heard and saw before, made me seek to
select, as best I could, a copy of everything there.
Mr. IcHORD. This was John Robert Glenn's apartment?
Mr. Wilkes. That is correct. I was not fortunate enough to get a
copy of everything there because the periodicals were stacked — I saw
four stacks that probably stood 3 or 4 feet high. I did notice in these
stacks that there were multiple copies of the same pamphlets.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you also observe copies of a newspaper known as
The Militant?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes , and another one called the Young Socialist
Fonmt:
Mr. NiTTLE. Approximately how many copies of those publications
did you see?
Mr. Wilkes. There were more than 10 copies of each.
Mr. NiTTLE. They were in quantity, were they ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, in connection with these exhibits I
ought to state for the record that The Militant is the official publica-
tion of the Socialist Workers Party.
The Socialist Workers Party was cited as subversive and Com-
munist by Attorney General Tom Clark in 1948, and as a Trotskyist-
Communist organization by this committee in the same year. It
has also been designated by the United States Attorney General under
Executive Order 10450, which is President Eisenhower's security or-
der, superseding President Truman's loyalty order of March 21, 1947.
Pioneer Publishers, which has printed the greater portion of the
Exhibits 1 to 13 identified by Mr. Wilkes, maintains its offices at 116
University Place, New York City, which is the address of the Socialist
Workers Party and the Young Socialist Alliance of New York City.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
891
Joseph Hansen, the author of several of the exhibits, is identified
in Exliibit 10 as the secretary to Leon Trotsky until the time of his
assassination in Mexico by Stalinist agents.
Mr. Chairman, I ask that Exhibits 1 to 13 be received in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. All of these exhibits were gathered by you personally
in the apartment of John Robert Glenn ?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcnoRD. The exhibits will be admitted into evidence.
(Documents marked ''Wilkes Exhibits Nos. 1-13," respectively.
Exhibits Nos. 1-12 retained in committee files. Exhibit No. 13
follows.)
Wilkes Exhibit No. 13
REVOLUTIONARY AND WORKERS' SONGS
INTERNATIONALE
"SeLIDARITY"
Arise, ye prisoners of StsirvationJl
Arise, ye wretched of the earth.
For justice thunders dondemnation,
A better world's in blttho
No More tradition's chains shall bindus.
Arise, ye slaves; no more in thralli
The earth shall rise on new foundations;
We have been naught, we shall be all,
'Tis the final conflict.
Let each stand in his place.
The International party shall be
the human race.
RESEAT CHORUS.
THE RED FLAD (Tiien Tannenbaum)
The workero ' flag is deepest red.
It shrouded oft our martyred dead •
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold
Their life-blood dyed its every fold,
CHORUS
Then raise the scarlet standard high;
Beneath its folds we'll live and die.
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here,,
Jiook 'round, fi the Algerians love its bla
The fighting Viet-Cong chants its praise;
In Cuba's vaults its hymns are sung.
The Mid West swells its surging song.
It waved above our Infant might
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a dded and vow
We will not change its color now.
When the Union's inspiration
: thru the workersS blood shall
■ run
I There shall be no power greater
! anywhere beneath the sun
jYet what force on earth is
I weaker than the feeble
I strenghlti of one
I But the Union makes us strong
I Solidarity forever
I Solidarity forever
I Solidarity forever
I For the Union makes us siroir>6
It is we who plowed the
prairies
Built the cities where they
trade
Dug the mines and built the
worlrrhops : endl&ss miles of
railroad laid.
Now we stand outcast and
starving 'mid tthe wonderc
we have made
But the Union makes us strong
( chorus )
They have taken uintold will lens
that they've never toiled
ze to earn
But without our brain and
mupoles not a single wheel-
can turn
We can break their haughiy
power, gain our freedom
when we learn
That the Un6on makes us strong
( chorus )
In our hands is placed a
power greater than their he
hoarded gold;
Greater than the might of
armies magnified a
thousand fold.
We can bring to earth a new
world from the ashes of ths o] '
For the Union makes us strong
892 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Wilkes, did you observe any other facts of interest
in connection with the tenancy of the Glenns ?
]\Ir. Wilkes. There were numerous copies of, I suppose you would
call it, the constitution of the YSA or the charter for the YSA. There
was a bulletin board in the apartment that had at the very top of it
a Cuban flag displayed. Immediately below that, and a little to the
right, there was a wanted poster from the post office for a "Williams."
There were other miscellaneous newspaper clippings and articles, and
so forth, concerning so-called communistic and socialistic victories in
various areas of the United States.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you observe any equipment within the apartment ?
Mr. Wilkes. They had, on occasion, a mimeographing machine
there. By "on occasion," I mean this mimeograph machine was kept
in circulation, so to speak. Various members or various people that
T mentioned before had possession of this piece of equipment at dif-
ferent times.
Mr. NiTTLE. Before we conclude your interrogation, I want to ask
you in what way you identified the particular persons whom you have
named as in attendance at the meetings at the Glenn apartmen^ "
Mr. Wilkes. When I firet saw them, the first few times I saAv them,
I didn't know who they were. I knew only their faces and their
physical characteristics. Later on, they would identify themselves
in general conversation in the apartment area. I knew names and
faces, but I had no wav of connecting them until such time as their
pictures were published in the paper.
Mr. NiTTLE. The staff has no further questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. JoHANSEN. I wondered if, at this time or later, you planned
to make any entry into the record as to information the committee has
regarding the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, sir, we propose to do that in the following
interrogation.
Mr. IcHORD. Does the Member from Arizona have any questions?
Mr. Senner. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Pool ?
Mr. Pool. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Bruce?
Mr. Bruce. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Schadeberg ?
Mr. Schadeberg. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Call your next witness.
There will be order. The Chair would suggest that the conversa-
tions cease. Mr. Counsel, call your next witness, please.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would John R. Glenn come forward please?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know why they want to talk to me. I suppose
it is because they have heard they have completely eliminate racial
discrimination in Cuba and tliey want to do the same tiling here.
Mr. IcHORD. Are you Mr. Glenn ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give be-
fore this committee will be the truth, the wliole truth, and notliing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Glenn. I would like to take an affirmation.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 893
TESTIMONY OF JOHN ROBERT GLENN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
DAVID I. SHAPIRO
Mr. IcHORD. The witness may be seated. Are you represented by
counsel ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I am.
Mr. IcHORD. Will counsel identify himself?
Mr. Shapiro. David I. Shapiro, 1411 K Street, Washington, D.C.
Mr, IcHORD. Proceed Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. Glenn. John Robert Glenn.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wlien and where were you bom ?
Mr. Glenn. Evanston, Illinois, July 26, 1929.
Mr, NiTTLE. W^here do you now live ? .
Mr, Glenn. Well, our furniture is stored in Bloomington. We
stored it before we went to Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliere do you maintain your address ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, Post Office Box 625, Bloomington.
Mr, JoHANSEN. You are living in Bloomington ?
Mr. Glenn. Our furniture is stored there,
Mr. NiTTLE, Will you tell us where you presently reside ?
Mr, Glenn, We just came to town here on subpena. We have been
staying with my wife's parents since we got back from Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, would you relate the extent of your formal
education, giving the dates, places of attendance at educational insti-
tutions, and any degrees received ?
Mr, Glenn. Starting with college ?
Mr, NiTTLE, Starting with high school.
Mr. Glenn, Huntington High School, Huntington, Indiana, 1943
to 1947. I graduated in 1947, I started college at UCLA, University
of California at Ivos Angeles, in January of 1949, I was there for
three semesters. Then I transferred to Indiana University in Sep-
tember 1950.
Before that semester was out, even though I got full credit for the
semester, I went into the Air Force, Air Force Intelligence, where I
was a Russian linguist for 5 years, receiving training m the Russian
language at Syracuse University.
Wlien I got out of the Air Force in January of 1956 I returned to
Indiana University. No, I am sorry, I will have to go back a little.
When I was in the service, the Air Force had a program whereby, if
you could complete your degree within 6 months, that you would be
put on temporary duty to do so while in the service, and I had done
enougli correspondence work and night school work while I was in
the service so that I was able to do that.
I went back to Indiana University in June of 1953 and received a
degree in general business administration in January of 1954.
Mr. NiTTLE, Were you assisted by the Government in offsetting the
expenses of your education ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I got my full service pay and housing and food
allowance.
Mr, NiTixE, Did you attend Trinity College at San Ant-onio, Texas?
Mr, Glenn, Yes, I mentioned a couple of night schools. That was
one of the night schools I went to shortly after I went into the service,
894 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
in San Antonio. It was just the summer session of 1951. As I say,
I took correspondence courses from the United States Armed Forces
Institute while I was in the service.
Mr. NiTTLE. Could you speak up, please, so that members of the
committee can hear you ?
Mr. Glenn. I received full college credit for those. When I got out
of the service in January of 1956, I returned to Indiana University
where I was accepted to do graduate work in economics there. I went
for two semesters and a summer session and I completed all of the
work for my ma^sters in economics, except for two papers.
I have two incomplete courses there, so I never did get my degree.
I resumed — I went to law school in September — started law school
in September of 1957.
Mr. NiTTLE. At the Indiana University Law School ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, Indiana University Law School. I received my
degree in January or February of 1961. "WHiile I was going to law
school I taught economics at Indiana University for 2 years — be-
ginning economics.
Mr. NiTTLE. What years did you teach economics ?
Mr. Glenn. 1957-1958 and 1958-1959, the first 6 hours of intro-
ductory economics.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you receive training by the United States Air
Forc« in Germany?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is another one. I studied some German at
night school — University of Maryland extension — when I was sta-
tioned in Frankfurt, Germany. Also I had a 1-week refresher course
in Russian in Manheim, Germany, while I was there. It was an Air
Force-operated school.
Mr. NiTTLE. "\Aniat is your present occupation ?
Mr. Glenn. I am a lawyer.
Mr. NiTTLE. Of what bars are you a member ?
Mr. Glenn. Indiana Bar.
Mr. NiTTLE. I would like to return for a moment to your Air Force
career. Would you tell us what your major duties were while serving
in Air Force Intelligence?
Mr. Glenn. You are not supposed to tell anybody that, and I
never have.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you in intelligence work while serving abroad?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us where you were abroad and for how
long a period of time ?
Mr. Glenn. Total time was in Germany, I&Y2 months; and I was
in Frankfurt, Germany, for, I would say, 11 months, and Berlin 5
months.
Mr. NiTTLE. During what years ?
Mr. Glenn. Let me see. I went over in September or October of
1954 and came back just before being discharged in January of 1956.
Mr. NiTTLE. Since your graduation from high school in 1947, would
you tell the committee what have been your principal employments?
Mr. Glenn. Well, there have been quite a few jobs. I worked for
the Erie Railroad as a section hand, as a fireman, as a truckdriver
carrying railroad personnel, and also in the office at different times.
Usually I would work in the summer.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 895
Mr. NiTTLE. When did you hold that employment?
Mr. Glenn. It is hard to remember.
Mr. NiTTLE. Approximately.
Mr. Glenn. 1947 to 1950, 1 guess.
Mr. NiTTLE. Then what was your next employment ?
Mr. Glenn. As an economics instructor at Indiana University.
One other thing. When I was in law school, I wrote a U.S. travel
agency here. I saw an advertisement for American citizens to visit
the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and Poland and I wrote thern and
asked them if they had any need for a guide. They said they did, so
I went to those three countries for about 40 days in the summer of
1958 and those three countries plus Yugoslavia and Rumania in 1959.
Mr. NnTLE. Had you previously visited any of those countries for
which you applied for the position of guide?
Mr. Glenn. No — No, I didn't. The reason I hesitated, of course
we passed through East Germany when I was stationed in Berlin,
but East Germany was not one of the countries visited. Well, that is
not true either. The first trip we did come from — back through —
East Berlin to West Berlin from Czechoslovakia.
Mr. JoHANSEN. What was the name of the travel agency?
Mr. Glenn. Tom Maupin.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is that M-a-u-p-i-n
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I think that is the name.
Mr. NiTTLE. — tour Associates ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, and the second year was some Association for
Academic Travel Abroad. I believe that is the name.
Mr. JoHANSEN. These were not Government- financed ?
Mr. Glenn. No, private U.S. travel agencies that arrange with the
travel agencies in the Soviet-bloc countries to facilitate tourists visit-
ing those countries — American tourists.
Mr. NiTTLE. The Tom Maupintour Associates had their offices in
Kansas City, did they not?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. How did you establish your contact with them ?
Mr. Glenn. I saw an ad in the student newspaper of Indiana Uni-
versity to take a tour. I thought with my language competence I
might have a chance to see these countries myself.
Mr. JoH ANSEN. You went as an employee or as a tourist ?
Mr. Glenn. I was an employee, I guess. I was kind of a liaison
between us and the tour guides provided by the various Soviet-bloc
tour agencies. In other words, when difficulties arose, I was to try to
see that these difficulties would be alleviated.
Mr. Johansen. The distinction I was trying to make is. Were you
on the payroll of this firm ?
Mr. Glenn. No, not really on the payroll. I was given expense
money and that is all.
Mr. Johansen. You were given your tour by reason of your duties ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, in a sense it was not even the tour agency that
gave the tour because if you have over 15 going in a group, all of
these countries provide another person, say as a guide or whatever, to
go free and the airlines do the same thing, going from here to Europe
on these tours.
896 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
If you have 15 or over, the 16th person can go free so, in a sense,
it didn't cost these companies anything to send me, except for the
expense money.
Mr, JoHANSEN. Again to clarify the matter, your trip, of course,
involved expenses. Was that expense met by the tourist organization
or by the countries that you visited ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, I don't know. How would you figure this ? I
simply described what happened. If you get 15 going in a group, it is
an advantage to them to get a larger number going.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Whom do you mean by "them" ?
Mr. Glenn. The socialist countries, I suppose, the tour agencies
there.
Mr. Johansen. It was the Communist countries that actually pro-
vided or financed this additional person ?
Mr. Glenn. If you want to look at it that way.
Mr. Johansen. It is not a matter of how I look at it. Do you know ?
Mr. Glenn. As I say, it is the same thing the U.S. airlines do here
for tours going.
Mr. Johansen. But it was the host countries that provided it.
Mr. Glenn. It was also the U.S. airlines that provided the sub-
sidy for these trips to the Iron Curtain countries, if you want to look
at it that way.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Nittle. Did you not, for a time, operate a small coffee shop in
Bloomington, Indiana, as well ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, in conjunction with a friend. We owned it ; we
didn't operate it.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, Mr. Russell will hand you a photostatic
copy of a passport application dated October 23, 1961, filed with the
Department of State, bearing the signature of the applicant John R.
Glenn, marked for identification as "John Glenn Exhibit No. 1."
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Are you not the John R. Glenn who executed this ap-
plication ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I am.
Mr. NrrTLE. On October 23, 1961, at Bloomington, Indiana?
Mr. Glenn. That is the approximate date.
Mr. NriTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit 1 in evidence.
(Document marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr, NiTTLE. In this application, Mr. Glenn, you state in response
to the section headed "LIST each COUNTRY TO BE visited" that
you intended to visit "Cuba (also, perhaps a number of other Latin
American countries) ." At the time you filed this application, did you
not also make request for a validation of your passport for travel to
Cuba?
Mr. Glenn. I don't remember whether I asked for a validation of
the passport. I would not be surprised if I did. I thought that would
be implicit in the request to go to Cuba. I am not sure whether I did,
Mr, NiTTLE, Do you recollect whether the Department of State on
or about November 7, 1961, responded to your request by refusing
such validation for travel to Cuba?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, they refused me to go to Cuba.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 897
Mr. NiTTi-E. I hand you a phototrraphic copy of a letter dated No-
vember 7, 1961, from the Department of State addressed to you, for-
warded by Edward J. Hickey, Deputy Director, Passport Office,
marked for identification as "Jolm Glenn Exhibit No. 1-A," in which
you are advised of that refusal. Did you not receive the original of
that letter?
Mr. Glenn. That is true, I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer "John Glenn Exhibit No. 1-A"
in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It will be admitted in evidence.
.(Document marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 1-A" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. NiTTLE. After recei%ang notification that your request for
validation had been refused, did you then contact the Cuban Embassy
in Ottawa, Canada, by letter dated November 14, 1961, requesting a
visa for travel to Cuba ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. I hand you a photostatic copy of a letter dated Novem-
ber 21, 1961, addressed to you by the Charge d'Affaires of the Cuban
Embassy in Ottawa, marked for identification as "John Glenn Exhibit
No. 2." This letter, as you will see, acknowledges receipt of your letter
of November 14, asking for an application for a visa to Cuba and ad-
vises you that, as you are an American citizen, you must apply for the
visa at the Embassy of Czechoslovakia in Washington, which is in
charge of Cuban business in the United States. The letter also ad-
vised you that you would need a validation from the United States
State Department.
Did you not receive the original of that letter from the Cuban Em-
bassy in Ottawa ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit 2 in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It is so admitted.
(Document marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 2" and retained in
committee files. )
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you, as the letter advised, get in touch with the
Czechoslovakian Embassy in Washington, D.C. ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you granted a visa
Mr. Glenn. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. on behalf of the Cuban Government ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I wasn't.
Mr. NiTTLE. Nevertheless, have you traveled to Cuba at any time
since October 23, 1961, the date of your last passport application ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us when you traveled there ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, it was the months of July and August of this
year, 1963.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is, you were one of a group of persons who de-
parted from Idlewild Airport aboard BOAC airlines for London,
Paris, Prague, Czechoslovakia, and thence to Cuba ?
Mr. Glenn. 'J'lial is true.
898 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. And you departed from New York on June 25, 1963,
with a group of alleged students ?
Mr, Glenn. Approximately.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliile in Cuba, you were interviewed by the press and
radio ; were you not ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. On July 4, 1963, a Havana radio broadcast in English
to Europe carried the following announcement :
In place of our regular youth program, today we present an interview with
Marsha and Jack Glenn, two of the 59 U.S. students who arrived in Havana
last Sunday.
Do you recall being interviewed at Havana by Cuban radio on
July 4, 1963?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I do. •
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Eussell will hand you a transcript of that inter-
view in Cuba, marked for identification tis "John Glenn Exhibit No.
3."
Mr. Glenn. Do you have a copy I can keep ?
Mr. Russell. I suppose we can mail you one.
Mr. NiTTLE. It begins in the middle of the page. I ask you to
examine that. Do you have any correction to the statements reported
of you ?
Mr. Glenn. I have not read it that carefully. I thought you just
wanted. me to examine it.
Mr. Shapiro. Can he read it all ?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes.
[Witness studies document.]
Mr. Glenn. It looks accurate.
Mr. IcHORD. Has the witness had an opportunity to read the tran-
script ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. And you say it looks accurate?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, sir.
Mr. NiTTLE. I offer Exhibit 3 in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It is so admitted.
(Docimient marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 3." See pp. 899, 900. )
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, you made the following statement during
the radio broadcast of July 4, 1963, in answer to a question as to how
you had learned of a student trip to Cuba :
Well, Marsha and I listen to Radio Havana quite often and we heard the trip
announced last December, when the first attempt was made to come to Cuba.
The announcement on Radio Havana did not say what group was organizing
the tour, or what their address was, but we wrote a letter to the Fair-Play-for-
Cuba committee asking them if they knew about the tour and asking them to
forward our letter of inquiry.
Do you recall making this statement on Havana Radio on July 4,
1963?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, it is true, but it is not quite complete. Marcia
later reminded me that we not only wrote the Fair Play Committee
but we also wrote the U.N. Mission asking them if they knew about
the trip. We wrote those two, and I don't know which of those two
forwarded the letter on to the Student Committee [for Travel to
Cuba].
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 899
John Glenn Exhibit No. 3
^OujT Youth program)
) In place of our regular youth program, today we present an
ew wlthitersha and JackGlenn, two of the 59 U.S. students who
Sunday. ! All the microphones of Radio Havana a-na
MTlved in Havana last Sunday ^_j — - .
ot Oar Youth program are very proud tonight to have Mr. and Mrs. OJena,
Jack end ftirsha, who are members of the group of 59 students which ha^
cane to Havana to visit Cuba. We'll start with Marsha.
*Annoancer: l*u-8ha, what are the reasons that have brought you to Cuba
daaplte the official repression and coercion, and so forth?
l^raha; Well, for the past several years we have seen so many conflicting
reports in the U.S. press on exactly what is going on in Cuba that we
benn to doubt very much what the U.S. Government was saying on what
r»lly wa« happening. When we heard that this trip of U.S. students was
organized, ve were very intc-rested, and we made every effort to
on the trip to see for ourselves what the Cubans are doing, what
is really like today. '
*
Annoxincer: I see. Jack, we would like to know, how did you Join the
group, how the idea sprang up?
Jack: Well, Marsha and I listen to Radio Havana quite often and ve h«ard
the trip announced last December, when the first attempt was mada to
come to Cuba. The announcement on Radio Havana did not say what group
was organizing the tour, or \rtiat their address was, but we wrote n letter
to the Fair- Play,-For- Cuba committee asking them if they knew about the
tour and asking them to forward our letter of inquiry.
Marsha: You see, (word indistinct) thit: was the tour that had oi iginally
been scheduled for Christmas vacation laet December, and was supLJOsed to
leave from Toronto. A Cuban plane would pick up these students in
Toronto and ccme to Havana. At the last minute the Canadian Covommcnt
refused to let the Cuban plane land in Toronto, and therefore the trip
has been postponed until now.
Announcer: I see. What way did you take to come here to Havanc?
Jac}:: VJe left from New York, There were two planes. One \m.B YIM to
/jr.st^-iam and then on to Paris, euid the other group went by the British
A:.i\'^-\-z, ■^GAC, from New York to Shannon and London and then on to Paris.
In I' -lis W3 stayed overnj,~ht, and then went on to Prague by the
Czscho^lo -akian airline, end stayed there two night;;; and then came to
Cala by the Cubana Airlines.
Annc'once.-: Did you have any interference by U.S. authorities when you
left?
Marsha; We.H, not when we left New Ycrk. There was a release made
purposely tha^^ ve vrere Koinp; via Toronto, and there-^ore tne officials in
Sw York did net stop us, 5ut vnen we aid reach loi-lc.i, and whan the
other group reached Amsterdam, there were officials from the U.S..
Embassies — and also in Paris and Prague — officials wno told us that it
was aga_.ist the State Department ruling for U.S. citizens to go to Cuba,
and that when we came back we would be in trouble, that there was a
5,000 dollar fine ond/oi' a penalty of five years in prison for U.S.
citizens traveling to Cuba.
900 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
John Glenn Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
Jack: I might add to that, the reason the authoHties did not tiry to I
stop us in New York vhen they thought vj were going by way of Toronto,
•was triat they knew that the Canadian Government would not permit the trip tt
go from Canadian soil, as it did not permit the trip to go last December.
/:L-ijiinc.;r: Jack; what do you do in the states?
Jack: I cm a lawyer.
Announcer: How about you, Marsha?
Maraba: I an a student at Indiana University, in Latin Anerican studies,
Announoer ; I see. Of course, you have been here in Cuba a very short
tima^ but have you seen anything?
^ck: Well, I think the thing that strikes me and strikes nost of the
group most of all if the overwhelnlnc and spontaneous support of the
Cuban Government by the people. Just everybody that you run into is
Just (pauBe~Ed.)— the enthusiasm is Just (another pause~El.)~well,
you don't know what to make of it. I think there is probably more
esthUBlasm of the Cuban people for their govcrcaent than for any other
gtwernment I have ever seen—any other people for any other jovernrjent
2 have ever seen.
Announcer: How about you, Marsha?
Mareba: Yes, I second that wholeheartedly. One other thing we did this
, aoarning was to travel through Havana by bus and then stop for about
an hour in the East Havana housing project, which has been entirely built
by the revolution, about fctr years aco— about three and a half or
four years ago. And this is a proj3ct that h:lds — how many fanllies?
(Jack whispers In background: 1,600— Ed.) 1,600 families. People
vho were taken primarily frci slum areas that now have been removed.
And moved into the housr.ng p"oject. Most of tl.>e apartments are thrce-
bedrocQ apartments with a batnroom and a kitchen that Is fully equipped,
iilth modern refrigerators and stoves, and a dining room- living room
ooablnatlon aiad a patio. And these people pay 10 percent of their salaries
-Oa rent per month for these apartments. It is Just pheronenal. Also
the fact^ too, that these are very highly integrated: there Is no
apparent difference between white Cubans or black Cubans or people of
other national! tie s— they all live together as one and are extremely
happy.
Announcer: How long do you plan to stay around in Cuba?
Jack: The trip is planned for one month: Me will be leaviiag about
1 August, We'll spend about two weeks altogether In Havana, and t-,;o
veeks In the countryside, but I'm sure we'll be back in Havana fof the
tenth anniversary of the 26 July movement.
Announcer: Our Youth program and Radio Havana have spoken to a couple,
Ack and Ifeirsha Glenn, who are here in Havana as members of a student
tfl^ai^Xtmt is visiting Cuba. And we can only hope that their visit will
y^M Vta7 enjoyable one. V/e are very glad to have then here.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. - 901
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you receive a response to your letter ?
Mr. Glenn. Not from the ones we wrote to, but apparently one of
them forwarded the letter on to the Student Connnittee. Somebody
knew, and we got a response from (he Student Committee for Travel
to Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was that from the Ad Hoc Student Committee for
Travel to Cuba that you received a reply ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you recall who w^as the author of the response to
you, what particular individual ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I don't.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was it Levi Laub?
Mr. Glenn. It could have been, but I am not certain.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you, prior to June 25, 1963, correspond with, or
receive any communication from, Stefan Martinot concerning this pro-
posed trip to Cuba ?
IVIr. Glenn. Well, I just don't remember who it was. It could have
been either one or both of those or it could have been someone else.
Mr. NiTTLE. I am attempting to refresh your recollection. Did you
have any correspondence with Anatol Schlosser or Phillip Abbott
Luce ?
Mr. Glenn. There might well have been. I don't remember which,
if any. Names, of course, became very familiar to me on the trip, and
I don't remember who it was that we coiTesponded with.
Mr, NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is true,
Mr. NiTTLE, How long have you been a member of that committee ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, I have been a sympathizer longer than I have
been a member, but I would say I have been a member for about a
year.
Mr. NiTTLE. Commencing when ?
iMr. Glenn. Sometime last fall.
Mr. NiTTLE. Inland you a copy of a letter to the editor of the iTidl-
(ina Daily Student^ a campus publication of the Indiana University
Department of Journalism, issue published February 10, 1962, a date
prior to your visit to Cuba, which is signed by "John R. Glenn, At-
torney-at-Law — Law, '61." The exhibit is marked for identification
as "John Glenn Exhibit No. 4." Are you the author of that letter?-
Mr. Glenn. That is true. I thought that was a rather good letter,
as a matter of fact. I
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit 4 in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It is so admitted.
Mr. NiTTi.E. Your letter states, in part :
I am fully aware that all straight-thinking Americans are supposed to hate
Castro by now, and think that Cuba is a nightmare of oppression. But the people
in Fair Play are willing to argue to anyone who will listen that our government
and our press are lying through their teeth.
Were you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee at the
time you wrote that letter?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know. Let's say I was. It doesn't make any
difference to me.
(Document marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 4." See next page.)
98-765 O — 63 — pt. 4 7
902
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
John Glenn Exhibit No. 4
i^^Taters
Indiana Daily Student
2/10/62
Treatment of FPCC Decried
To the Ediitcr:
I'm aJltaiasit aipoipHeCtJic wi'Lh
rage. Some fi^iends of mi'nte in
Pair Play foi- Cu^ba have just
T&lalted to me the difificulties
they've had in amiang'ing' a
showing of Cubati films this
weekend, and getting- 'the flact
aJdvertiseid on campus.
It won't be necessary to
nalme names or state in deltail
the evasi'oois, the 's'tlalling, and
the trans'parerit hypoei'^iSy on
the part of numerous adniini-
stiiat'ive offioials Aiith respect
to this reicognized campus
oi-'g'aniziation ; one only has to
try to imag'ine these same tax-
sup'poi-ted 'oifficials, with the'ir
Boy Scout mentality and
islitapile-imMed "patr'iotism", ac-
oor^ding slimilar treatment to
one of the conseirvaltive gtroup's
alt the Univer'sity — with their
neo - faxiist, anti - demoCra:tic
ideias. (Naturally it can't he
i'mag^ined, since the powerful
in our cbuntry, the peiople 'w'ho
"oount," stand behind these
m iSla.nthroipdc oi-iganizaJti ons. )
namesimple- mis-
If s all right for taxes to
be taken from left-leaning
citizens to promote the dis-
semination of right-wing
blather at a public institu-
tion, but of course tax
money taken from the
good, conservative, patriotic
citizens of Indiana can't toe
used io "further radical
causes."
I'm profoundly ashamed of
• my alma mater. If a sclroiol, or
even a country, wants to be-
lOome totalitarian and thi^ottle
un'poipular minority vie'ws, it
can do sio if it wants. I would
not be iq. favor of this, bult it
can do it if its inclinations are
' such. But what is moslt galling
and insufferable is to is«e a
c'ounti-y or la university no^t
•only drape itself in the trap-
pings df freedom but endlesisily
pimtle »dn aib'out t'heiitr superior-
iity to others in this respe'ct —
and at t'he same time use eveiy
delaying tactile, eveiy clhildish
teldhnicaUty, evei-y dishonoriable
trick in the b6ok to prevent an
opposition vtiewp6int from
being presented and judged by
the citizeni-y, or student body.
I have always wondered w^hy
iHadioals always seemed so
touchy, w'hy they always
seemed to have a chip on their
shoulder. I think I know why
now.* Who wouldn't become in-
fui-iated, seeing the society all
aiV>und them use every lousy
defvice ever Tieard of to isiolate
them ajnd keep them fi^om
hiaVing an audience — even in
flagr*ant violation oif the pro-
fesseid high ideals and piinioi-
ples that society supposedly
^ands for?
My only consolation, as I
sit here in a state of high
dudgeon, is in the know-
ledge that these petty
tyrants, with their «mall
souls and morally obtuse
view of the universe, stand
in the company of the syco-
phants and satraps who
have immemorially snuffled
and groveled to do the bid-
ding of the mighty, in the
hope that a few crumbs
may fall to them. They
have done their part, how-
ever small, to make human '
history the wretched chron-
ical that it' is, and it is in
this role that they will be
C judged by in the future.
I'm fully aware that all
straight - thinking Americans/
are supposed 'to bate CaBtro by
. now, and think tlhalt Cuba is a
nig'htmare of oipipreis:^ion. But
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
903
John Glenn Exhibit No. 4 — Continued
the peoiple in Fair Play are
■Will in g to argue to anyone who
will listen thalt our "goveti'mment
and our press are lying thix>uigh
their teethlwhy is it that th«
people w'ho say that the Flail'
Pliay'ers ai^e themselves liairS
always trying to jusit simiyly
elinilnate them instead 'o>t deail-
inlg witJh their arguments? Wihy
so mudh enecrgy devoiteid to
squeezing down the already
stifling narrow limits Cf ef-
fective p^HtiOal discussi'on (for
a "free" country) to such pro-
found, pi'incipled lanld 'bal^t cion-
trovea-sy aJs "shiall we haVe
more Socilal Security, or less?"
Weill, I have a word ■olf warn-
ing to all the 110 per cent
Ameri'cains and theiir inkjinur
meiital ignorance oif wlhQJt's
going on in the World, their
tomplaicerit arrogance and
myopic chauvinism, their
child-like confidence in the"
good faiith of their govern-
meht'3 foreign p'oihcy: If
Americans helieve "'tlheir" gov-'
ei-nment and coniniunioalta'ons
niedia about Cuiba, the rieisit of
the world no longer does.
The fact is that the vast
bulk of humanity is begrui-
ning to turn against
America. This process has
picked up markedly in the
last two weeks, mainly as a
result of our machinations
at Punta del Este and sub-
sequent increased tempo of
preparations for a new, full-
scale invasion of Cuba,
which may well come yet
this month. *
Evein if this war, which will
ndt be declared by Congress
just as the Korelan "police
adtion" 'waJs not-Jin contraven-
tion to the U.S. Constitution —
does not develop into 'a nufelear
Third World War, many hun-
dreids of thousahds of dea'ths
and casualties will be suffered
by American sei'Vicemen in
order to subdue Cuba. The
Cubans melah it w*he'n they Say"
they Will fi'ght to the last maa
— to itihe death — to prevent!
America fr6m re-^im posing its
cOlonlilal systetai ion them. Sev-
enltynfive to 90 per cent of Ithd
Cu'ban piopulaltion w411 haVe to
be physi'oallly eliminaJtled in
oi-der for us to have a regime
that suits us 'tJhere.
But those of you who are
of draft age should remem-
ber that it is not going to
be the officers and chief
stockholders of the expro-
priated companies who will
be fighting and dying to re-
gain these honorable gentle-
men's "rights" in Cuba. I
recommend that you drop
in to Whittenberger AudS-
toriwn at 8 o'clock tonight
or Sunday night to get an
idea of what you will be
fighting against — and for.
JolVn R. Olenn
Attorii ey-<aJt-La*w
Law, '©1
Mr. JoHANSEN. What was the date of the letter, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. NiTTLE. February 10, 1962.
Mr. Glenn. No, I wasn't a member then.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you associated with the Fair Play for Cuba Stu-
dent Council at the University of Indiana at the time you wrote that
letter?
Mr. Glenn. Associated?
Mr. NiTTLE. Or affiliated in any way ?
Mr. Glenn. I say I was a sympathizer. I think I donated a dollar
a couple of times to them. I used to go to their meetings, if tjiat is
what you mean.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, the committee's investigation reveals that
after leaving Cuba on August 25, 1963, you traveled to Spain, then to
Morocco, and while in Morocco you sought to enter Algeria. Is this
correct ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
904 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
Mr. NriTLE. It is a fact, is it not, that you received an entry permit
from the Algerian- Government, but you were prevented from using
it because you were arrested by the Moroccan police and expelled as
an undesirable?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you not then deported from Morocco and re-
turned to Spain ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. The committee's investigation reveals that on Octo-
ber 15, 1963, you claimed in Madrid, Spain, that you did not have a
return trip ticket from there to the United States. The American
Embassy in Madrid, at its own expense, then furnished you with a
return ticket. Is that correct?
Mr. Glenn. A return ticket to the United States ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes.
Mr. Glenn. No, that is not true at all. They apparently forced
the Iberian Air Lines to use the ticket the Cuban Government paid
for.
Mr. NiTTLE. The American Embassy bought a ticket for you. You
did not receive the ticket in your possession. You were returned to
the United States aboard the Iberian Aii- Lines ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. The committee's investigation now establishes that you
actually had a return ticket to Idlewild Airport at that time.
Mr. Glenn. Yes. Well, we didn't have the physical — wait, what
was the date on that ?
Mr. NiTTLE. October 15, 1963.
Mi*. Glenn. No, we didn't have a ticket. We threw it overboard
into the Mediterranean on the way back.
Mr. NiTTLE. You threw it overboard ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, we figured if the U.S. wanted us back in this coun-
try, they were going to pay for it, not the Cuban Government, and we
had many things stolen from us by the Moroccan police, such as
Cuban pictures and souvenirs which we considered our private prop-
erty.
Mr. NiTTLE. Nevertheless, the United States furnished you with
transportation from Madrid to New York ?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know who served it.
Mr. NiTTLE. And asked you to sign a waiver of rebate on any un-
used ticket that you might have possessed ?
Mr. Glenn. No.
Mr. NnTLE. Didn't you refuse to sign the waiver so that the United
States Government could not reimburse itself for providing you with
transportation ?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know what it was. I refused to sign anything.
Mr. Johansen. May I interrupt, Mr. Counsel ? I am trying to get
this straight in my own mind. You did not use the ticket that had been
paid for and furnished by the Cuban Government to return to the
United States, is that correct ?
Mr. Glenn. If you mean the physical ticket, no. I don't know who
paid for the flight back. I assmned that Iberian was talked into using
our right to a ticket. That is, our right to get a loss or destroyed
ticket. Perhaps the Government did pay for it. I don't know.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES EST U.S. 905
Mr. JoHANSEN. But you did not use the ticket you previously had?
Mr. Glenn. No, we tore it up and threw it in the Mediterranean
as we were being shanghaied back.
Mr. JoHANSEN. You did not return on any ticket for your return
from Spain to the United States?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Would you tell the committee whether, since re-
turning to the United States, you have made any effort to obtain a
refund upon this ticket which you had possessed but had destroyed?
Mr. Glenn. No, I simply told Iberian that I considered if they had
used our ticket — which we considered legally would have been a gift
from the Cuban Government — and it was made out in our names and
Ihere were no conditions to our using it, and it was good for a year.
They said — in fact, if we had in fact used our right to that ticket we
would consider them to a law suit for the value of the tickets, because
we distinctly told representatives of Iberian in Madrid if we were on
that plane it was against our express will and they were not to use
our property in that way.
Mr. JoHANSEN. But this was property you had already destroyed?
Mr. Glenn. We had not destroyed — I mean basically the right to
the ticket exists. The physical ticket was destroyed because we didn't
want the U.S. Government using it.
Mr. JohanSen. May I ask what was the reason for your unwilling-
ness for the United States Government to use this ticket?
Mr. Glenn. We wanted to travel in Europe. We were on our
honeymoon. We wanted to come back, but when we were ready to-
Mr. JoHANSEN. You were returning unwillingly at the time?
Mr. Glenn. Definitely.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, on October 24, 1962, a group called the Ad
Hoc Student Committee to Oppose United States Aggression held a
protest march against the United States blockade of Cuba, which went
into effect on that date. Did you participate in that demonstra-
tion ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I didn't.
Mr. IcHORD. T^Tiat was the date of that demonstration ?
Mr. Nitfle. October 24, 1962, Mr. Chairman, at the University of
Indiana.
Mr. Glenn, I would have no objection to participating in it, but
we liad just opened our law office in Bloomington and that would not
have been too smart a thing to do, of course.
Mr. NiTTLE. It is our information that the Ad Hoc Student Com-
mittee to Oppose United States Aggression was created by the Fair
Play for Cuba Student Council and the Young Socialist Alliance
at the University of Indiana. Do you have knowledge of this fact?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I think that is true. However, the Young Social-
ist Alliance was not really an Indiana University alliance at that
time. I think that came out in the recent articles in Bloomington.
They were an organization there, but they had not been recognized by
the university at that time.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Have they been since?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
906
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN "^ f"
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, I hand you a phr' '.ph of a portion of
the protest march taken on the day of tnai cmonstration, marked
for identification as "John Gleim Exhibit No. 5." Could you identify
for the committee the person who appears there carrying a camera at
the left center of the photograph ?
Mr. Glenn. Tliat is myself.
(Photograph marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 5" follows.)
John Glenn Exhibit No. 5
Arrow indicates John Glenn.
Mr. NriTLE. Mr. Glenn, I understood you to say that you had not
taken part in the protest march on that date ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, I didn't. I think that picture must be from the
protest march that was held at the time of the April ^ invasion.
Mr. NiiTLE. A protest march sponsored by the same or^nization,
the Ad Hoc Student Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggression?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know. I think it was kind of an ad hoc com-
mittee. I think people that were interested in it were simply just
calling other people who would be interested. I don't think they even
gave themselves a name.
Mr. Johansen. This was what invasion ?
Mr. Glenn. The April invasion of Cuba.
Mr. NriTLE. Would you examine that exhibit again, and I ask
whether you are acquainted with the person in the center of the photo-
graph carrying a sign and marching on your left?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is George Shriver.
1 Bay of Pigs, April 17, 1961, invasion by Cuban exiles.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN V£. 907
Mr. NiTTLE. Is not George Shriver the former president of the
University of Indiana Fair Play for Cuba Student Council ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you ever have contact with him on matters relat-
ing to demonstrations, picket lines, letter writing, or any other activity
in support of the Indiana University Fair Play for Cuba Student
Council ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, he is a good friend of mine, and I have talked to
him about many things, but any letters I have written have been
strictly on my own initiative.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Counsel, I suggest the answer is not responsive
to the question. Could we have the question repeated and the wit-
ness given an opportunity, to repeat his answer ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes. Did you ever have any contact with George
Shriver on matters relating to demonstrations, picketing, or any other
activity in support of the Indiana Fair Play for Cuba Student
Council ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, at the time of the attempted April invasion, I
just knew George more or less by name. It was some time after that
that I became better acquainted with him so I doi;i't think I could have
had any contact with him regarding this demonstration or any picket-
ing or any letters.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Again, Mr. Counsel, as I understood the question,
it was not limited to this particular demonstration.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is correct. Did you have any contact with re-
spect to any of the activities of the Fair Play for Cuba Student
Council ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. When did your contact for that purpose take place ?
Mr. Glenn. Most of the people who are in the committee are friends
of mine, and we talk all the time.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long have you known George Shriver ?
Mr. Glenn. I think I first met him some time before the April
invasion; but, like I say, that was just a speaking acquaintance. I
really didn't know him very well then. It was later that summer,
after I had taken the bar exam, that I got to know him better. That
was when I first read C. Wright Mills on Cuba — Listen Yankee —
and got interested in Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, we pointed out that, in November o^^ 1961,
the United States refused to validate your application for a passport
to Cuba. You then admitted that you made application to the Cuban
Embassy in Ottawa, Canada, which referred you to the Czechoslo-
vakian Embassy in Washington, and you were again refused a visa.
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Nevertheless, it is the committee's information that
you went to Mexico in the spring of 1962. Is this true ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you then in Mexico preparatory to traveling to
Cuba in some way or other ?
Mr. Glenn. We hoped to, but we did not get our visa.
Mr. NiTTLE. You did not travel to Cuba at that time ?
Mr. Glenn. No.
908 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. While in Mexico in the spring of 1962, were you then
in contact with George Shriver?
Mr. Glenn. We sent a telegram to him asking him to write Robert
Williams in Cuba, seeing if he could help us get a visa because George
knew Robert Williams. The thing was that you had to know some-
one presently in Cuba in order to get a Cuban visa, and they had to
recommend to the Cuban State Department that the person be granted
a visa. I don't know if that is still true or not. I met Robert Wil-
liams once in Bloomington, but I knew he wouldn't remember me.
Mr. NiTTLE. George Shriver has been an officer of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee and he would, of course, be the man from whom to
receive a recommendation, and by whom you might be recommended
to the Cubans ; is that right ?
Mr. Glenn. That was the only thing I could think of.
Mr. NrrTLE. You received a cablegram from George Shriver, did
you not, in response to your telegram to him ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, it was signed "George Shriver."
Mr. NrTTLE. I hand you a copy of a cablegram, marked for identi-
fication as "John Glenn Exhibit No. 6," which was sent April 1, 1962,
at 6:48 p.m., datelined at Bloomington, Ind., which is addressed as
follows : "Jack Glenn, care the Cuban Embassy to Mexico" and which
reads as follows:
"Letter sent to Williams. Keep in touch. Venceremos." The
cablegram is signed "G. S."
Would you examine that exhibit and tell the committee whether
you received the original of that cablegram in Mexico through the
Cuban Embassy?
Mr. Glenn. I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. I offer that in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It is admitted.
(Document marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 6" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr, JoHANSEN. Am I to gather from an earlier question that you
have reason to doubt that this telegram came from Shriver?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I found out later that two friends of mine, who
were also friends of George Shriver's, in Bloomington were after him
to write this letter to Williams in Cuba, He was just very negligent
in doing it. He just kept putting it off, and finally these guys just,
sent the telegram themselves.
Mr. NiTTLE. Who were "these guys" ?
Mr. Glenn. James Bingham and Ralph Levitt.
Mr. NiTTLE. The "Williams," to whom reference is made there, is
Robert Williams?
Mr. Glenn. That is right.
Mr. NiTTLE, He is presently a fugitive from justice, wanted by the
FBI for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. He was then in Cuba ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I met him when I was in Cuba.
Mr. NrTTLE. He is now lately in Communist China, is that right?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you have knowledge that he is still there ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I don't.
Mr. NiTTLE. Have you heard from him ?
Mr. Gleijn. No, I had just heard that he had gone.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 909
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, would you explain to the committee what
meaning was conveyed to you by the word "Venceremos" in the cable-
gram?
Mr. Glenn. It is a Spanish word that is used as a Cuban revolu-
tionary slogan now, which means "We shall win."
Mr. NiTTLE. Or "We shall conquer"?
Mr. Glenn. "We shall conquer."
Mr. NiTTLE. From the Latin "vincere," meaning "to conquer"; is
that right?
Mr. Glenn. That is right.
Mr. Johansen. Mr. Counsel, before we proceed, as I understood it,
vou testified that these "two guys," as you described them, wrote Wil-
liams. Is it your knowledge that they also were the ones who sent you
the cablegram ?
Mr. Glenn. They said they sent the cablegram. They told me later
after I had returned from Mexico. They said that George was putting
it off, you know, and we were waiting down there to hear whether or
not he sent the letter, and they knew we would be anxious to hear.
Mr. Johansen. Did you ever discuss with George his procrasti-
nating habits in this connection ?
Mr. Glenn. I had the idea he didn't want us to go to Cuba and I
have the idea that that was a subconscious block on his part.
Mr. Johansen. I gather, then, that the other two did want you to
go, or at least were agreeable to it.
Mr. Glenn. We were down there trying to go, and they sought to
help us if they could. At least, they knew we were waiting for some
reply because we asked for it in the letter.
You see, the reason we went to Mexico was, when we talked to one
of the fellows in the C-^.e^ih Embassy in Washington, he said that they
would simply have to forward information on to Cuba to see if you
could get a visa, but he had heard in Mexico City visas were granted
quite readily to Americans down there. But when we got down there
we found out that that was not true at all. As a matter of fact, it was
very difficult to get a visa.
Mr. Johansen. So the record is complete, you did not get a visa at
that time through that approach ?
Mr. Glenn. That is true.
Mr. Ichord. Can counsel estimate how long the interrogation will
continue ?
Mr. NiTTi.E. I would say about 15 more minutes.
Mr. Shapiro. Excuse me. May I inquire whether or not you are
going to be calling the next witness, Mrs. Glenn ?
Mr. IcHORD. The House will be in session at 12 o'clock. Will the
committee be agreeable to meeting again at 2 o'clock? We will con-
tinue until 12 o'clock, Mr. Counsel, and recess until 2 o'clock this
afternoon.
Proceed with your questioning.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, I now hand you another photograph,
marked for identification as "John Glenn Exhibit No. 7," also
taken at the University of Indiana, and we would like you to identify
the individual to the extreme left of the photograph, standing by the
automobile and wearing a dark jacket or windbreaker. Is it not Ralph
Levitt?
910
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Glenn. It looks like him. I would say it is.
(Photograph marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 7" follows.)
John Glenn Exhibit No. 7
Arrow indicates Ralph Levitt.
Mr. NnTLE. Were you in attendance on that occasion ?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know, I don't know what occasion it was. I
don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. That must have been at the
time of the April invasion.
Mr. NiTTLE. You identify that as at the time of the April invasion ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, because I was not in the protest demonstration
last October. Well, it came by the office. I walked out to look at it as
the remnants of it came by. That is all.
Mr, NiTTLE. The committee's investigation reveals that Kalph Levitt
in November 1961 was the original lessee of post office box 912 in
Bloomington, Indiana, which was the address of the Fair Play for
Cuba Student Council of that city. He was also president of the
Young Socialist Alliance at the University of Indiana in 1962.
Is it not a fact, Mr. Glenn, that Ralph Levitt attended meetings of
the Young Socialist Alliance held in the apartment which you had
rented from Mr. Wilkes ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. I hand you yet another photograph, marked for identi-
fication as "John Glenn Exhibit No. 8." Do you recognize the person
in the center of the photograph holding a sign which reads, "Leave
Cuba Alone"?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, it looks like Jim Bingham.
Mr. NiTTLE. That is James Bingham, is it not ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 911
(Photograph marked "John Glenn Exhibit No. 8" follows.)
John Glenn Exhibit No. 8
Arrow indicates Jim Bingham.
Mr, NiTTLE. It is not a fact that James Bingham also attended meet-
ings in your apartment ?
Mr. Shapiro. Just a minute.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Glenn. Well, he was at our apartment a number of times.
There were meetings occasionally. Sometimes there were meetings
of the Defense Committee for the Bloomington Students. At other
times it was just parties and social gatherings.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was he not in attendance at your home also as an
officer of the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mr. Glenn. I think that there was a meeting or two of the YSA.
There may have been several.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, postal records show that one Jack Marsh
rented post office box 915 as the lessee for the Young Socialist Alliance
for Bloomington, Indiana, on September 20, 1962. Mr. Marsh then
listed his address as 621 North College Avenue, Bloomington, Indiana.
Your passport application filed in October 1961, Exhibit 1, contains
this same address.
Did Jack Marsh reside with you in October 1961 ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is true.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you then know him as a member of the Young
Socialist Alliance ?
912 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
Mr. Glenn. No. I was the one that got him interested in Cuba, as
a matter of fact. After I moved in that apartment, some of the people
that lived there later moved out ; and I didn't want to move out so I
asked people that I thought might be interested in moving in. There
were several rooms up there, and Jack Marsh and his brother moved
in and he got interested in Cuba as a result of various literature and
books that I encouraged him to read.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you encourage him to join either the Young Social-
ist Alliance or the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, or both ?
Mr. Glenn. He didn't need any encouragement.
Mr. NiTTLE. By that, I take it you mean he joined both organiza-
tions ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Wilkes also testified this morning that William and
Paulann Groninger attended meetings of the Young Socialist Alliance
held in your apartment on Rural Route 9, Bloomington, Indiana. Did
the Groningers attend ?
Mr. Glenn. I suppose they did. Like I say, there were undoubtedly
several meetings of the YSA there. Mostly, it was the meeting of the
Defense Committee for the Bloomington defendants because my wife
was on that committee. Thev were social gatherings. T don't know
which and when they were out there, but they were certainlv out there.
Mr. NriTLE. Was Paulann Groninger secretary of the Committee to
Aid the Bloomington StudentvS?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I believe that is right.
Mr. NrrTLE. She was also a member of the Young Socialist Alliance,
is that correct?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know. I believe she did join, but I am not really
certain.
Mr. NrpTLE. Mr. Glenn, you are a member of the Young Socialist
Alliance; are you not?
Mr. Glenn. No, that is not true.
Mr. NrpTLE. Have you ever been ?
Mr. Glenn. No, T never have been.
Mr. NrrTLE. Are you a member of the Socialist Workers Party?
Mr. Glenn. No, I am not.
Mr. NriTLE. Have you ever been ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I never have.
Mr. NnTLE. Whether or not you have ever been formally enrolled
as a member of either the Socialist Workers Party or the Young So-
cialist Alliance, that is to say, whether or not you have ever been
technically and officially enrolled as such, have you ever been in any
way affiliated with either organization ?
Mr. Shapiro. Excuse me. Counsel. Would you please define for
the witness what you mean by "affiliated" ? It is a pretty broad area,
subject to a great deal of legal dispute.
Mr. NiTTLE. I thought, being a member of the bar, he would have
no difficulty with that question.
Mr. Shapiro. He is just a recent member of the bar and he has dif-
ficulty with it. I have been a member of the bar for a long time and
I have difficulty with it.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 913
Mr. NiTTLE. I will quote for you from the Supreme Court case of
Killian v. The United States, which had to construe the meaning of
that term in connection with a prosecution under the Taft-Hartley
Act. That case was decided December 11, 1961 :
A person may be found to be "affiliated" with an organization, even though
not a member, when there is shown to be a close working alliance or association
between him and the organization, together with a mutual understanding or
recognition that the organization can rely and depend upon him to cooperate
with it, and to work for its benefit, for an indefinite future period upon a fairly
permanent basis.
Now, conceding that definition and using that as the basis and
guideline for your response, were you not affiliated both with the Fair
Play for Cuba Student Council and the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I would say so if what you mean by this is: Was
Trotsky right? I think Trotsky was definitely right. I think any-
one who is educated recognizes this.
Mr. NiTTLE. You accepted the Trotsky viewpoint, and you agree
that you did cooperate with, and worked for, the benefit of these two
organizations I have mentioned ?
Mr. Glenn. I would say so ; yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Based upon that explanation and definition of
"affiliated," would you also say that you are affiliated with the Socialist
Workers Party ?
Mr. Glenn. Based on that definition — well, that isn't quite true, for
instance, the position of the Young Socialist Alliance and the So-
cialist Workers Party was that you shouldn't go to Ctiba, and Marcia
and I went, knowing that they were opposed — generally opposed to
people going to Cuba. They thought it was unnecessary.
Mr. NrxTLE. You do concede affiliation with the Young Socialist
Alliance, however?
Mr. Glenn. Well, if you want to define affiliation that way. I
wouldn't mind doing things that they think are right and that I agree
with them on. I thought that they were wrong about traveling to
Cuba and I went anyway — in fact, in defiance of it, and they don't
like it.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you, with respect to the Young Socialist Alliance,
closely work with it?
Mr. Glenn. Well, not very closely.
Mr. Nittle. You permitted meetings of this organization in your
apartment, did you not ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, yes. I said, in a sense
Mr. Nittle. You concede you are affiliated with the Young Social-
ist Alliance ?
Mr. Glenn. By this definition of affiliation, yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, how much further questioning do you
have ? It is now 12 o'clock. The Chair will announce that the com-
mittee will be in recess until 2 o'clock and the witnesses under sub-
pena can return at that time.
(Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m. Monday, November 18, 1963, the sub-
committee was recessed, to be reconvened at 2 p.m. the same day.)
914 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S.
AFTERNOON SESSION, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1963
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :37 p.m., Hon. Richard H.
Ichord, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
(Members present: Representatives Ichord, Senner, and Johansen
of the subcommittee, and also Representatives Bruce and Schadeberg.)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
Two members of the subcommittee being present, a quorum is pres-
ent.
At the recess the witness, John Robert Glenn, was testifying. Mr.
Counsel, you may proceed with the questioning.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN R. GLENN— Resumed
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, do you know Edward W. Shaw ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I have met him.
Mr. NiTTLE. I asked that question because it is the subcommittee's
information that he spoke on the campus of the University of Indiana
imder the auspices of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee on March 2,
1961. Mr. Shaw, who testified before this committee in hearings in
May 1963, has been identified as a member of the Socialist Workers
Party in testimony before another committee of the Congress. He, as
of the May 7 hearings, revealed that he also traveled to Cuba — to be
specific, in September of 1961.
Now, can you explain why he did so if the Socialist Workers Party
is opposed to such trips ?
Mr. Glenn. I said they were not completely opposed to it. In gen-
eral, they were opposed to it and they were specifically opposed to this
student trip.
Mr. NnTLE. You mean only that the Socialist Workers Party was
opposed to this mass public student violation of the ban on travel, but
not to covert trips by such individuals?
Mr. GiiBJNN. No, not that. They were opposed generally to people
traveling to Cuba, not necessarily as a challenge to the travel ban.
I don't know. I may be wrong about this. This is just my under-
standing.
Mr. NiTTLE. When you say it is your "understanding," you do not
mean to say that you have received directives from the Socialist Work-
ers Party to that effect ?
Mr. Glenn. No.
Mr. NiTTLE. And you do not mean to say that you have received in-
ctructions or suggestions from members, or persons known to you
to be members, of the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Glenn. I have just heard that this was their position. I don't
remember who I heard it from.
Mr. NriTLE. But you will not say that you either read that in official
directives of the Socialist Workers Party, or heard it from persons
known to you to be members of the Socialist Workers Party?
Mr. Glenn. No. I don't know where I heard it, and it may be en-
tirely inaccurate.
Mr. NiTTLE. Now, for a moment I would like to return to the subject
of affiliation with the Socialist Workers Party. You admitted affilia-
tion, as that term is defined by the Supreme Court, with the Young
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 915
Socialist Alliance. You denied affiliation, however, with the Socialist
Workers Party-
This is a point we would like to explore because the distinction be-
tween your admitting: affiliation with one group and denying it with
another was not too clear.
Mr. Glenn. By your definition, I don't see how it could be, because,
so far as I know, there were no members of the Socialist Workers
Party around Bloomington.
Mr. NrrTLiE. Would you not describe the Young Socialist Alliance
as a youth group of the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Glenn. My understanding of this is that they say they are in
''political solidarity" with them, but technically there are no organiza-
tional ties. They are two separate oi'ganizations.
I don't claim to be an authority on this. This is just my under-
standing of it. This is what they have said anyway.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you have any knowledge to the contrary ?
Mr. Glenn. No, I don't.
Mr. NrrTLE. The mere fact that a person disagrees with, or even
defies, a position adopted by a certain organization would not mean
that they could not be affiliated with it. That would not amount to
proof of lack of affiliation of any person. Actually, members of an
organization may disagree on one question or another and still remain
members.
Mr. Shapiro. Do you still mean "affiliated" ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes.
Mr. Glenn. Frankly, I don't care if they are the youth group.
What difference does it make? The Socialist Workers Party could
have a youth group if they wanted to, so far as I can see.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is it true, as Mr. Wilkes testified this morning, that
quantities of The Milifant, the organ of the Socialist Workers Party,
were kept in your apartment ?
Mr. Glenn. I don't know where he got that literature. I doubt very
much about the quantities, because my wife and I could never afford
more than one copy of each issue. I doubt that there were quantities
that he picked from.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was this literature placed in your apartment by you ?
Mr. Glenn. Whatever literature we might have had there we pur-
chased to read.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you accumulate several copies of those editions
for distribution at meetings of the Young Socialist Alliance held in
your apartment?
Mr. Glenn. Not that I recall.
Mr. NiTTLE. You do not deny there was, in your possession, numer-
ous copies of the Socialist Workers Party organ ?
Mr. Glenn. I would not take a principle stand against having lit-
erature there for distribution, if that is what you mean. As a matter
of fact, I don't think it happened, but it might have.
If it is literature that I read and agree with, I would want other
people to read it, too, to see if they agree with it.
Mr. NiTTLE. You said the Socialist Workers Party had been op-
posed to visits to Cuba, which is the subject of these hearings. Could
you tell us why ?
Mr. Glenn. What was that?
916 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVTTIES EST IT.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. You said the Socialist Workers Party was opposed to
these visits to Cuba. Could you tell us why ?
Mr. Glenn. I said they were opposed specifically to this group.
I don't know what the Socialist Workers Party position was on it.
I know that I was told that the YSA's position on it was that they
were against this particular trip and I got the impression that, in
general, they were against people going down to Cuba on the grounds
that it was unnecessary.
You don't have to go down there to understand the Cuban revolu-
tion. I think they are wrong on this, but that is my understanding
of their position. I think it would be good. The more people that
go down there, the better.
Mr. NiTTLE. I have before me a copy of The MiUtant, the official
orsran of the Socialist Workers Party; and in its issue of January 23,
1961, they publish a lead editorial, titled "The Ban on Visiting Cuba."
This editorial attacks the State Department's regulation for travel
to Cuba without especially validated passports, and supports the Fair
Plav for Cuba Committee.
Mr. Glenn. Fair Play for Cuba ? I didn't know they were taking
an active role in trying to get people to visit Cuba. I don't know,
mavbe they are.
Mr. NirrLE. You are not aware, then, of the position of the Socialist
Workers Party on travel to Cuba and its support of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee's activities in trying to get as many people as it
can to visit them ?
Mr. Glenn. I think they are opposed to the travel ban, but they are
not in favor of people going down there right now and challenging
it, even though occasionally — well, apparently some of the leaders go
occasionally. I don't think they are, in general, in favor of the rank
and file in their organization going down there.
Mr. NrrrLE. I pointed out to you that the official publication of the
Socialist Workers Party states its position to the contrary.
Mr. Glenn. What exactly does it state ?
Mr. Shapiro. Might we see the article, please, as long as you are
quoting from it or characterizing it ?
(Document handed to counsel.)
Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Chairman, on the basis of the document that was
just handed the witness, I am going to have to object to Mr. Nittle's
characterization because I believe it is completely inaccurate and I
would like the Chairman to see the document.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the Chair see the document, please.
(Document handed to chairman.)
Mr. IcHORD. I think perhaps counsel can rephrase his question there.
I understand the witness is not a member of the Socialist Party
organization.
Mr. Shapiro. Socialist Workers Party. He so testified.
Mr. IcHORD. He also testified that he does not know the official policy.
Mr. Shapiro. That is corr««t.
Mr. Ichord. I think it is outside the knowledge of the witness. Pro-
ceed with your questions, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should reveal at this
point that the Young Socialist Alliance, formally established at a
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN TJ.S. 917
founding convention held in Philadelphia in 1960, has stated in its
founding declaration that it "bases itself on the traditions of Marxian
socialism as developed by Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg and Lieb-
knecht." • ^
The declaration also stated that the Young Socialist Alliance and
the Socialist "Workei-s Party are the "only revolutionary socialist
groups in the United States today," that the Young Socialist Alliance
is in "basic political solidarity, on the principles of revolutionary
socialism," with the Socialist Workers Party, which is the only political
party "capable of providing the working class with political leader-
ship on class struggle principles."
The Young Socialist, official publication of the Young Socialist
Alliance, issue of May 1960, stated that members of the organization,
"as revolutionary socialists, reject completely the concept that social-
ism can be brought into existence piece-meal. Socialism can only
come through the complete overturn of the present capitalist
states * * *. Such a revoluntary development is the end result of
a irrepressible struggle between the capitalist class and the working
class."
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Glenn, the International Socialist Review^, a pub-
lication of the Socialist Workers Party, in the fall 1963 issue, contains
an article by Farrell Dobbs and Joseph Hansen, previously mentioned
Socialist Worker Party leaders.
The article states that : "The Cuban Revolution was marked by the
predominance of action over conscious revolutionary theory," and that
the Cubans in turning to Trotskyism "have blazed a trail for millions
of youth around the globe."
It also states : "A generation of youth armed on a sufficiently wide
scale with Trotskyist theory would signify the finish of the capi-
talist system."
Do these statements explain your making your apartment available
for meetings of the Young Socialist Alliance and your travel to Cuba?
Mr. Glenn. I think it is rather absurd for them to say the Cuban
revolution has turned to Trotskyism because when we were down there
we talked to several Cuban Trotskyists, and they said they were picked
up by the Cuban police for distributing literature and they were not
permitted to use the press. They claim they support the government,
but they support it critically. I don't see how they could say the Cuban
revolution is Trotskyist. Maybe it is partly, but when you put them
in jail —
Mr. Nrrn^. Nevertheless, was your travel to Cuba and the making
available of your apartment for meetings of the Young Socialist Al-
liance done in support of, or to lend support to, the Cuban revolution ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, I do support the Cuban revolution. I thought
you understood that. I support the Cuban revolution and I will de-
fend it.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you agree with the statement published in the
International Socialist Review, with regard to the cliaracterization of
the Cuban revolution by the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Glenn. The one where they say it is Trotskyist ?
Mr. NiTTLE. Yes.
98-165 O — 63 — pt. 4 8
918 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. Glenn. Well, it is certainly more Trotskyist than the Soviet
Union is. The Soviet Union is not Trotskyist at all.
Mr. NiTTLE. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. loHORD. Mr. Senner.
Mr. Senner. What was the highest rank you att^iined while you
were in the Air Force?
Mr. Glenn. Staff sergeant.
Mr. IcHORD. What was the nature of your security clearance ?
Mr. Glenn. I had a secret, top secret, and cryptographic clearance,
which is the highest one granted.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Bruce.
Mr. Bruce. Mr. Glenn, you support the Cuban revolution. You
have made that plain.
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. Bruce. You also, iust a moment ago, testified that dissension
from the police state of the Cuban revolution is punishable by jail.
Mr. Glenn. I would like to qualify that a little. The people that
we talked to made it very explicit. They said that the maximum
that any of their members had ever been in jail was for 50 days and
then this person was deported to Argentina.
Mr. Bruce. What were the grounds of the jail sentence ? "
Mr. Glenn. Well, there is a certain Communist Party influence in
the government down there. I don't think it is predominant.
They said that Russia tried to impose conditions on getting Cuban
aid and that conditions were that they smash the Trotskyists, but
Fidel has refused to do that. But usually they get picked up for a
few hours or just overnight, but they have never had any charges
leveled against them.
Mr. Bruce. In other words, you say you support a Cuban revolu-
tion which, in its application, has attained a measure of success and
uses a police-state measure against the citizens.
Mr. Glenn. The main reasons I supported it down there is that the
Trotskyists supported it down there, and the police would throw them
in [jail] with the counterrevolutionaries and argue why the Cuban
state* had to be supported, even though they were picked up and were
put in jail.
They realize that Cuba has to have Russian aid. If little things
like this have to happen they feel it is no reason to stop the revolution.
Mr. Bruce. It is like the liquidation in the thirties ; it is like a means
to an end. The principle is basically the same.
Mr. Glenn. If it developed into that, this would be a very serious
turn for the revolution. I personally don't think it is going to happen.
It might. I think this is why the Cuban Government ought to change
this particular policy because this could be the beginning of Stalinist
development.
Mr. Bruce. Being a supporter of what is termed the Cuban revolu-
tion, do you also support the "To the WalF' cries and the execution
of the opposition in Cuba, or is that just a thing
Mr. Glenn. So far as I know, the only people who have been exe-
cuted— in fact, I have never seen in the U.S. press specific details
about a particular man who was executed or put in jail for a long
period of time because he opposed the revolution verbally. All of
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. ' 919
these people were murderers under the Batista regime. They were
Batista's henchmen and they had the blood of Cuban people on their
hands— 20,000 of them.^
Mr. Bruce. Wasn't that the same charge that was held against those
who were liquidated in the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, that is the significance of Trotsky's exile and
death.
Mr. Bruce. Then vou would justify the liquidation of Leon
Trotsky?
Mr. Glenn. No, of course not.
Mr. Bruce. Why?
Mr. Glenn. Because he represented the interests of a majority in
the Soviet Union.
Mr. Bruce. Wasn't he charged with being an enemy of the state ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, he was. I say I think tliis is a bad development
in Cuba. I think it should be gotten rid of, because this is the sort of
thing that leads into what happened in Russia. I think the balance
of world forces are such that this is not going to happen in Cuba be-
cause they are not completely isolated. They get support from the
Soviet Union even though the Soviet Union is not able to make them
do everything they want them to do. In fact, the Soviet Union is
extremely angry because they won't sign the test ban treaty. Cuba
has kept quiet about it, and this gives support to China and the
elements in the Soviet Union that think the test ban treaty is wrong.
Mr. Bruce. What intrigues me is how you can brush away the
police-state methods.
Mr. Glenn. I support it critically. If the Russians don't like it —
I am going to say Trotskyists picked up there and they have not
formed workers councils, which is the basis of socialism, and I think
this is the reason they have organizational problems and ineiSciency.
Mr. Senner. By what means and from what sources did you obtain
fijiflnces for your trips to Cuba or attempted trips to Cuba? As I
understand it, you worked part time in the summer and went to
school. Where did you get your sources of funds ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, from working but, of course, the trip to Cuba
that actually succeeded was at the invitation of the Cuban Student
Federation.
Mr. Senner. Wliat was the source of the money for the trip to
Mexico where you attempted to get into Cuba ? Wlio financed that ?
Mr. Glenn. Myself.
Mr. Senner. Was that from income or savings ? ■
Mr. Glenn. Yes, from savings. I think I had about $900 when I
went down there.
Mr. Senner. What was the purpose — I didn't quite follow your
argument — for wanting the United States to pay your transportation
back to the United States when you were in Spain ?
Mr. Glenn. Well, if they were going to force us back, and they
certainly did — the American consul in Rabat admitted to us that
iDepartmert of State Publication 7171, "Cuba," released April 1961, states:
"The hlstOi.7 of the Castro Revolution has been • • * the history of the dissolution,
persecution, imiprlsonment, exile, and execution of men and women who supported Dr.
Castro — in many cases fought by his side — and thereafter doomed themselves by trying to
malce his regime live up to his own promises." (p. 5)
920 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
orders had been out to pick us up and to have us shipped back, and he
said at one point, he said, "Look, we know they are here, get them."
It was not Morocco that wanted us out, and the police kept letting it
slip all along the line both in Morocco and Spain that all of the orders
were coming from the U.S. Embassy and nobody could do anything
about it.
As a matter of fact, the police were very sympathetic with us and
were appalled at the way we were having to be treated.
Mr. Senner. Assuming that the United States is to blame and as-
suming further that they controlled the Government of Kabat
Mr. Glenn. I wouldn't say they controlled it, but in this particular
instance the Moroccans seemed willing to go along with the U.S.
Government.
Mr. Senner. Let's assume the U.S. had no part in this and you
were permitted to go about your business. Where did you want to go
next?
Mr. Glenn. Down to Algeria. We were hitchhiking, which was
the only way we could go ; and then we intended to go back up through
various Western European countries as long as our money held out.
We wanted to see Algeria, particularly, because we understand the
political development in Algeria is similar to that of Cuba and we
thought it would make a good point of comparison.
Mr. Senner. I take it when you got to Algiers your money went
out, because when you got to Spain you didn't have enough money to
come back to the United States.
Mr. Glenn. We had our return tickets.
Mr. Senner. I thought that was in the sea.
Mr. Glenn. We would apply for another ticket.
Mr. Senner. How would you continue your travels in the various
countries if you had no money ?
Mr. Glenn. That was part of the problem. When we found out we
were able to stay in Europe for a while, we wrote our parents and asked
them if they would lend us some money and we had it sent to Algiers
because we were sure it would be there when we got there. We were
running out of money actually, but we had enough to get to Algeria.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Glenn, when you were in Cuba on the student trip,
where did you stay ?
Mr. Glenn. Do you mean in Havana ?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes and other places. Did you stay in a hotel in
Havana ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. With the remainder of the students ?
Mr. Glenn. Yes, the whole group stayed there.
Mr. IcHORD. Were you present when Mr. Castro visited the group ?
Mr. Glenn. At the hotel?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes.
Mr. Glenn. No, we didn't know he was coming and we were up
asleep. It was fairly late at night.
Mr. IcHORD. There was some testimony that he played ping-pong.
Mr. Glenn. That wasn't then. That was at this resort area, Vera-
dero, which is about 50 or 60 miles away. We went out to see tliis
resort area, and he came by while we were eating lunch.
Mr. IcHORD. You did not see him ?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES EST U.S. 921
Mr. Glenn. I saw him then, but not at our hotel in Havana. We
saw him a couple of other times.
Mr. IciioRD. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. NiTTLE. No, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. If not, the witness will be excused.
Mr. NiTFLE. Would Marcia Haag Glenn please come forward.
Mr. IcnoRD. The witness will remain standing to be sworn. Do
you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Glenn. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MARCIA HAAG GLENN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BAVID I. SHAPIRO
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you state your full name for the record, please ?
Mrs. Glenn. Marcia Glenn.
Mr. NiTTLE. Your maiden name was Marcia Haag, H-a-a-g?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. Nitfle. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I am.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would counsel kindly identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Shapiro. David I. Shapiro, 1411 K Street, Washington 5, D.C.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mrs. Glenn, you are the wife of the prior witness ?
Mrs. Glenn. That is right.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell us when and where you were bom ?
Mrs. Glenn. I was bom in New York City on March 5, 1939.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliere do you now live ?
Mrs. Glenn. Well, as my husband testified, we just returned from
Europe and we have a post office box as a mailing address and we
don't liave a residence right now.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate the extent of your formal education ?
Mrs. Glenn. I went to high school and went to college and the last
year I was working on my master's degree. This was all at Indiana
University.
Mr. NiTTLE. Of what high school are you a graduate ?
JSIrs. Glenn. Cranford High School in Cranford, New Jersey.
Mr. Nitfle. What year did you graduate?
Mrs. Glenn. 1957.
Mr. NiTTLE. What years were you in attendance at the University
of Indiana?
Mrs. Glenn. I started there that fall.
Mr. NiTTLE. Fall of what year ?
Mrs. Glenn. In the fall of '57 and went for, I think, about 3i/2 years
or 4 years and then I worked at the university, but I think, at the same
time, I was taking one or two courses each semester. So, I guess I was
in school all that period of time except for a couple of semesters I was
employed there and was not going to school.
Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat employment did you hold there ?
Mrs. Glenn. I was working in the Chemistry Department as a
technical secretaiy.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you do any work on a project or program called
the Lilly program ?
922 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I was doing that last year. It was in the History
Department.
Mr. NiTTLE. What is your present employment ?
Mrs. Glenn. I am miemployed.
Mr. NiTTLE. Would you advise the committee what other employ-
ment you have held since graduation from high school ?
Mrs. Glenn. Just jobs during the summer when I was out of college,
which have all been secretarial jobs.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you at any time employed by the Girl Scouts as
a camp counselor ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, but that was while I was in high school. I think
it was the summer of my junior year in high school I was a camp
counselor. The summer before that I was what they call a counselor
in training at this Girl Scout camp, which did not pay any money,
but the next summer I was employed as a counselor.
Mr. NiTTLE. While at the University of Indiana, did you engage
in a Latin American studies program of any sort ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I was working on my master's in that field.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mrs. Glenn, Mr. Russell will hand to you a photostatic
copy of a passport application dated December 18, 1962, bearing the
signature of the applicant, Marcia Haag, marked for identification as
"Marcia Glenn Exhibit No. 1." Did you, as Marcia Haag, execute
this application at Bloomington, Indiana, on December 18, 1962?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes. I am not sure of the date. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was that the approximate time that you filed it ?
Mrs. Glenn. December of 1962, yes.
Mr. NrrrLE. Mr. Chairman, I oifer Exhibit 1 in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. It is admitted.
(Document marked "Marcia Glenn Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Based on that application, you received a United States
passport on December 21, 1962 ; did you not ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Your application for a passport contained a section
headed : "LIST EACH COUNTRY TO BE VISITED." Under this section
you listed Venezuela, Colombia, and Peru as the countries to be visited,
and you placed a question mark after Colombia and Peru.
Was this a true statement of your intended travel at the time that
you filed your application in December 1962 ?
Mrs. Glenn. Well, there was a possibility that I would be going and
that is why I put the question mark, because it was not absolutely
certain.
Mr. NiTTLE. The question mark is only after Colombia and Peru.
Mrs. Glenn. I am sorry, I did not make myself clear. There was
a possibility I would be traveling to South America in conjunction
with my studies, and the trip would be to Venezuela and northern Latin
America, and there was a question of continuing on and, if it were
possible, I would have done so because I was interested in these areas.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you travel to Colombia, Venezuela, or Peru ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I did not.
Mr. NiTTLE. Actually, at the time you executed your passport appli-
cation, you intended to travel to Cuba with members of the student Ad
Hoc group?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S. 923
Mrs. Gr.ENN. I knew about this trip and I knew there was the possi-
bility of it, but I was not too sure of the chances of the successof the
trip, but I knew about it.
Mr. NiTixE. Didn't you file that application because you thought you
were going to travel to Cuba, and had no intention at that time to
travel to Venezuela, Colombia, or Peru ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, that is not true. I had the intention of traveling
to Latin America whenever the possibility arose.
Mr. IcHORD. Including Cuba?
Mrs. Glenn. Including Cuba.
Mr. NiTTLE. l^Hiy did you not list Cuba as an intended place of
travel ?
Mrs. Glenn. As I said before, I was not certain and I even had
doubts in June that the trip to Cuba would come off. I was very
dubious about the whole thing.
Mr. Nittle. You gave your approximate date of departure as
December 24 or 25 for those countries. Do you wish to examine your
statement to that effect in your application ?
(Document handed to counsel.)
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you not state that you intended to depart for those
countries on December 24 or 25 ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, as I said before, there was a possibility that I
would have gone. This is the field that I am studying and I am
anxious to go to Latin America at every opportunity.
Mr. NiTTivE. We realize that.
Mr. Shapiro. Would you mind not interrupting the witness. I have
to object. I think the witness has an opportunity to answer.
Mr. IcTiORD. Let the witness go ahead. I don't think counsel in-
tended to push the witness too far.
Mrs. Glenn, There were continually arising programs for encour-
a^ng people to travel to foreign countries. There was also a possi-
bility I would have gone to Chile for a year on a research grant. I
did not get the research grant so I did not go.
Mr. NiTTT.E. Have you traveled to Cuba since December 18, 1962?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I have.
Mr. NiTTLE. The Cuban newspaper Sierra Maestra in its issue of
July 13, 1963, at page 6, column 1, carries an article pertaining to a
visit made by a group of students to the Cuban "Hall of Martyrs."
This article, in part, states :
Marsha Glenn, a student of the University of Indiana who travels with her
husband, also a student, embraced with mothers of the martyrs, Hector Pavon
and Emiliano Corral. In between sobs which drowned her words exclaimed:
"We shall do what is possible when we return to our country to initiate a
socialist revolution . . ."
Mre. Glenn, did you visit the Hall of Martyrs while in Cuba ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, we did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you correctly quoted ?
Mrs, Glenn. No, I wasn't.
Mr. Shapiro. Just a moment. May we see the article you are quot-
ing from ?
Mr. IcHORD. Does counsel have the article?
924 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Chairman, this is a translation made of the article
in the Sierra Maestra. We do not now have before us the original
issue of this publication,
Mr. IciiORD. Did the witness make such a statement ?
Mr. Shapiro. She denied it. She said she was inaccurately quoted.
That is the testimony, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Could the witness summarize to us what she did say?
Mrs. Glenn. I don't know exactly, except I remember tliis was a
misquote, because this was in Santiago where this took place in this
Hall of Martyrs, and we w*ere there for, I don't know, 3 or 4 days and
we were stationed in Santiago and we traveled by bus to different
places in that region to visit different factories, schools, or what haVe
you, and on the bus we talked to the reporter for the Sierra Maestra
and Jackie became quite friendly with liim. He asked me after this
paper came out how I liked the article. I did say I thought I was .
misquoted. That is why I remember the situation very well. What
did happen was there were six or eight mothers there of boys who
had lost their lives in the fighting of the revolution. Some of them
had lost all of their sons, four or five, and it became quite an emo^^'onal
experience, and one of the American students stood up and sa. i tnat
really the Americans were to blame for a lot of the Cubans who lost
their lives because they initiated the fight.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Because of what?
Mrs. Glenn. Because it was the Americans who initiated the fight-
ing against the Cuban people and in one sense the Americans were to
blame for the loss of these Cuban sons.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Did you associate yourself with that statement?
Mrs. Glenn. Not at the time, but I agree with it. I didn't have
anything to do with it, but this is how the meeting became very
emotional.
These women were sitting right in front of my husband and myself,
and I was upset by all of this. I do agree with the statement, and we
were crying. I know I said that I hoped — that Jack and I had just
gotten married — but I hoped this would never happen to our sons
and we hoped we would never be in this position of having our sons
killed for what I think is a just cause but in an unjust way, and that
is the basis of what I said.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you make any comment upon your intent to effect
a socialist revolution in the United States?
Mrs. Glenn. I am a Socialist and, not only being for socialist
revolution, I think it is inevitable.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Then, in effect, you do subscribe to that goal and
objective ?
Mrs. Glenn. I am sorry, I didn't understand the goal and objective.
Mr. JoHANSEN. I say you do then, in fact, subscribe to that goal and
objective?
Mrs. Glenn. Of what, seeing socialist America ?
Mr. JoHANSEN. A socialist revolution ?
Mrs. Glenn. In America ?
Mr. JoHANSEN. Yes.
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I think so.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Then in what particular was this statement in error ?
Mrs. Glenn. It was just that I didn't say it then.
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 925
Mr. JoHANSEN. You didn't happen to say it then ?
Mrs. Glenn. No.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
IVfr. NiTTLE. Mrs. Glenn, were you present this morning when Har-
old Wilkes testified ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I was.
Mr. NiTTLE. He testified that during the period you and your hus-
band rented an apartment from him in Bloomington, Indiana, meet-
ings of an organization known as the Young Socialist Alliance were
held in your apartment. Was this a true statement of fact on the
partof Mr. Wilkes?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I don't think it is.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you hold meetings in your apartment?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, there were meetings in our apartment.
Mr. Nfttle. Were the persons who attended these meetings mem-
bers of the Yoimg Socialist Alliance ?
Mrs. Glenn. There were many people who came to our apartment
who were not members of the Young Socialist Alliance. There were
people who I know were members of the Young Socialist Alliance.
Mr. NiTTLE. How many persons were in attendance at these meet-
ings?
Mrs. Glenn. As many who came. Sometimes there were 5 people,
10 people. We had parties and there might be 30 people.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you meet during the first week of the month?
Mrs. Glenn. I think I should clarify one thing. The meetings
held in the apartment were the meetings for the Defense Committee
for the three students who were indicted in Bloomington, and there
were many people who were interested in the indictment of these-
three students who had nothing to do with the Socialist Alliance and
were not Socialists. In fact, the dean of the University of Indiana
donated a number of dollars to the defense of these students.
These were meeting and they were not involved with the Socialist
Alliance at all. I have to contradict my husband on this because he
was not a member and does not know.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you deny they ever held a meeting in your home?
Mrs. Glenn. I believe they held a meeting at one time when my
husband was not there. The Young Socialist Alliance was a recog-
nized organization and it had complete recognition of the university.
The meetings were held at the miiversity campus in the University
Building and they were always announced.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Wilkes identified Ralph Levitt as being in attend-
ance at these meetings.
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, he was. He is one of the defendants.
Mr. NiTTLE. He was the head of the Young Socialist Alliance in
Bloomington, was he not ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was James E. Bingham usually in attendance at these
meetings ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. Shapiro. Excuse me. I hate to interrupt counsel but I would
like to know — I have read this very carefully. This is the scope of
the inquiry here, and I would like to know how this question or series
of questions, this line of questioning, in any way relates to the subject
926 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES EST U.S.
matter under inquiry this morning. I may be wrong but I would like
to know.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, the Chair stated in the statement at the
outset of the hearing that the purpose of the legislative inquiry pri-
marily embraced two things : One, to look into the possibility of tight-
ening up restrictions of travel abroad for United States citizens and
also the possibility of broadening the definitions of persons who are
required to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
Testimony before the committee has revealed, and the committee in-
vestigation has led the committee to believe, that the idea of the trip
originated in Cuba ; that the money which was used to buy the tickets
on the student trip to Cuba probably came out of Cuba.
The witnesses today have been very cooperative in giving the com-
mittee the information that they have about the trip to Cuba. I do
believe that the question is pertinent and within the scope of the legis-
lative inquiry, and the Chair will so rule.
Mrs. Glenn. Let me make it clear, Mr. Nittle, these three students
who were indicted were officers of the Young Socialist Alliance and
they were indicted because they were officers of the Young Socialist
Alliance. I was working on the Defense Committee, and it is only
normal that the three men who were indicted would come to these
meetings although they were not always there. Besides that fact,
these men were personal friends of my husband and I, and they were
in our apartment on many occasions.
Mr. Nittle. Weren't they indicted in May of 1963 ?
Mrs. Glenn. That is right.
Mr. Nittle. Mr. Wilkes mentioned March 1963. He testified with
respect to a person addressed as "Comrade" speaking on the subject
of the Young Socialist Alliance, a man described as being from New
York. Was he in attendance prior to May 1963 ?
Mrs. Glenn. There were no Young Socialist Alliance meetings in
our apartment. Mr. Wilkes does not live in our apartment. Granted,
he lives upstairs. He trespassed in the sense that he listened to what
we were saying ; he took tape recordings of what was going on in our
apartment; and he has entered our apartment illegally and, by what
has been given here, he took literature from our apartment, which is
stealing ; and I hope we get it back.
Mr. JoHANSEN. The witness said a few moments ago there was at
least one meeting.
Mrs. Glenn. One that I can remember and my husband was not
there. The one I can remember was in January, and it was held there
at that time because it was in between sessions of the university and
the universify rooms were not available.
Mr. JoHANSEN. I am just t^ing lo clear the record so there is not
a conflict.
Mrs. Glenn. This gentleman from New York that you mentioned
did stay in our apartment. He was there, and there were several
social gatherings but these were not meetings.
Mr. Nittle. Was this gentleman an organizer for the Young So-
cialist Alliance ?
Mrs. Glenn. He is a member. I don't know if he is an organizer.
T think he is a secretary.
Mr. Nittle. Was not Jack Barnes in attendance at these meetings ?
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 927
Mrs. Glenn. No. No, Jack Barnes, as nearly as I recall, was not
there.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was he never in attendance at a meeting of your
group ?
Mr. Shapiro. Excuse me. Wliich group are you referring to ? You
have referred to several.
Mr, NiTTLE. Was he not present at any of the meetings which took
place in your home?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, he was present at meetings of the Defense Com-
mittee.
Mr. NiTTLE. Is Jack Barnes known to yoti as a Midwest organizer
of the Young Socialist Alliance ?
Mrs. Glenn. I believe that is correct, yes.
Mr. Nittle. Did James E. Bingham attend these meetings?
Mrs. Glenn. I have already testified to that, Mr. Nittle.
Mr. Nittle. Was he not known to you as the secretary of the Young
Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. That is public knowledge.
Mr. Nittle. Were you not the recording secretary of the Young
Socialist Alliance ?
Mrs. Glenn. I most certainly was not.
Mr. Nittle. Did you hold any position in the Young Socialist
Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I was not.
Mr. Nittle. Are you a member of the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I am not.
Mr. Nittle. Were you ever a member of the Young Socialist
Alliance?
Mrs, Glenn. Yes, I was.
Mr. NiTFLE. Wliat months were you a member of the Young Social-
ist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. From January until June.
Mr, Nittle. Of what year?
Mrs. Glenn. Of this year.
Mr. Nittle. What caused you to discontinue membership in the
Young Socialist Alliance, if you discontinued it in June of 1963 ?
Mrs. Glenn. The Young Socialist Alliance has a policy of not per-
mitting its members to go on the trip to Cuba. I was against this
policy and I oflfered my resignation, which at the time was accepted.
Mr. Nittle. Did you receive instructions from any member of the
Socialist Workers Party not to undertake this trip to Cuba?
Mrs. Glenn. I talked to no one from the Socialist Workers Party
concerning going to Cuba.
Mr. Nittle. From what official source in the Young Socialist Alli-
ance did you receive information that they opposed this particular
student trip ?
Mrs. Glenn. I received information from people in New York who
form the executive committee of the Young Socialist Alliance — the
national secretary, I think his title was.
Mr. Nittle. This is a matter of interest to the committee, Mrs.
Glenn, because testimony received by the committee indicated, with
respect to certain activities, that there was a united-front action be-
tween the Socialist Workers Party and other Communist groups.
928 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACnVITIES IN U.S.
And, of course, the committee has received information that this stu-
dent travel to Cuba was largely planned and principally led by mem-
bers of the Progressive Labor Movement, a splinter Communist group
under the leadership of two fonner candidates for the National Com-
mittee of the Communist Party — Mortimer Scheer ahd Milton Rosen.
You say you received information at the headquarters of the Young
Socialist Alliance in New York that you were not to undertake this
particular trip to Cuba. You did not understand that information
to be stating a policy that the Young Socialist Alliance was opposed
to support for the Cuban regime ?
Mrs. GliEnn. No, the Young Socialist Alliance supports without a
doubt the Cuban revolution.
Mr. NriTLE. They support it ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, without a doubt. Their policy position on the
trip to Cuba was they were against their members going on that trip.
Mr. NiTTLE. On that particular trip ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. But not generally against travel, under certain circum-
stances, to Cuba by members of the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I think I would say that generally they were
against it, but not many members of the Young Socialist Alliance have
the money to make a trip to Cuba on their own finances.
Mr. NiTTLE. They would not oppose members of the Young Social-
ist Alliance going if they went not in association with the Progressive
Labor Movement ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, no, no. I am not sure. This has never come up.
I have never asked the Young Socialist Alliance if they would object
to my going to Cuba on my own finances, but it is my understanding
that they do not feel — that it is sufficient enough to know what is going
on in Cuba in this country, that is', it is not necessary to go to Cuba.
It had nothing to do with working with the PL or anything.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Student
Council ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes. I think it is the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
It is not called the Student Council.
Mr. NiTTLE. How long were you a member of that committee ?
Mrs. Glenn. I joined that this time last year and I suppose the dues
I paid were for 1 year. I don't know. I may not be a member now
because I have not paid any dues.
Mr. NiTTLE. You have not given notice to the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee that you desire to terminate your membership ?
Mrs. Glenn. I don't desire to terminate my membership.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you perform any services for the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee while at the University of Indiana ?
Mrs. Glenn. I am sure I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Were you a member of the Ad Hoc Committee to Op-
pose U.S. Aggression ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I was.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you perform any services for the Ad Hoc Com-
mittee to Oppose U.S. Aggression ?
Mrs. Glenn. Well, the Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggres-
sion held a meeting in our apartment. I took part in a demonstra-
tion held by the Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggression on
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 929
October 24, 1962. Tlien the Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S.
Ap:gression went out of business.
Mr. NiTTLE. Was it not, in fact, created by and was a front for the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee and the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. I disagree with that. The Ad Hoc Committee to Op-
pose U.S. Aggi-ession was made up of a group of students who be-
longed to various organizations, including the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, the Young Socialist Alliance, NAACP, YPSL,^ which is
another Socialist youth organization of the Social Democrats. One
lady even said she was a member of the PTA.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you participate in the organization of the Ad Hoc
Committee ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I did. Well, in that it was just a group of stu-
dents getting together. That is all there was to organization.
Mr. JoHANSEN. Was it a specific "aggression" that this Ad Hoc
Committee was formed to oppose ? ;
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, it was to oppose the aggression of the U.S. at the
time of the Cuban crisis, to oppose the aggression of the blockade.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Russell will hand you a copy of a mimeographed
throw-away of the Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggression,
entitled "WE OPPOSE united states threat to world peace."
I ask you to examine the document. It is marked for identification as
''Marcia Glenn Exhibit No. 2."
Mrs. Glenn, it is the committee's information that you mimeo-
graphed that document at the University of Indiana during the time
you were working, I believe, on the Lilly project or program ? Is this
information correct ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, it is not correct,
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you mimeograph it ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I didn't.
Mr, NiTTLE. Could you tell us by whom the document was mimeo-
graphed ?
Mrs. Glenn. I am really not sure. I think this was a document that
was distributed during the demonstration, but at the time this Ad Hoc
Committee was formed, I was working a number of hours a day at the
time I was going to school, and right up to the time of the demonstra-
tion I was working. In fact, I got to the demonstration late and I
didn't have this and I didn't see, but I am pretty sure that that is
what it was; and in this particular demonstration I did not help to
make any of the signs or mimeograph this or have anything to do
with that part of undertaking, I am not sure, but I think that is prob-
ably what it was used for.
(Document marked "Marcia Glenn Exhibit No. 2." See next page.)
Mr. NiTTLE. Mr. Wilkes testified there was in your possession in the
apartment a mimeograph machine. Do you know whether that docu-
ment was mimeographed on this mimeograph machine of which you
were in possession?
Mrs. Glenn. No.
Mr. Shapiro. The witness said she didn't know.
Mr. IcHORD. She can answer the question.
Mrs. Glenn. The demonstration was in October, and Mr. Wilkes
did not testify when the mimeograph was in our apartment.
> Young People's Socialist League.
930 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
Marcia Glenn Exhibit No. 2
WE OPPOSE UNIT:ID STATP:S threat to WOPiD PEACE ■
VThen President Kennedy announced that the United States
would enpct a "quarentint,"' against "all ofreiiSlve arms and
oth-^r mctt-rlale, if necessary,"' he not only endangered the
llvtis of Ar.erlcrn servicecen, but he willfully and drfastically
mlsrepr -sented the actual situation within Cuba today. The
Cub^.n psopLe hews announced that they ere villing to die
defer.din<5 their country. Remenber the April invssioni The
Cubrn sov^rnment has announoec time and time again that all
weapons in Cuba tor^sy are for the defer^e of the Cuban people
end' their soverei'^ity as guarentecd by the U.N. Charter, the
Charter of the Cr^erizntion of thta American States, the Rio
Pact, ancj traoltioml i.itsrnatlonrl Ipw.
The ratlo3;ele for the bloc'sadr i.2 the alleged presence
of olfenrive missile air] bomber c -j: :■-■'■ t" in Cube. President
Kennedy's spe'rch, however, merely i^ro -:*."■ out does not make
clecr the fcturl presence of such weoo:- "^ That is, the
President'^ mefsciji? doe.s not nfke cle^r Lh^t there are now
offer.f^'.ive weapons in Cubr, All thl" nrje&ch said definitely
was th'Tt there ar^ boec cissle site_3 built and some under
conrtruction which have been interpreted as beinj^ abl'. to
acccmitodrte mcQium and lon'3;-ran3e missies , Yesterday, Premier
C?ctro hts steted that there are no "'offensive" v;eapons in
Cube. This Indicates thrt there is no inuDodiato thrsat to
the United States, Therefore, the inter.tion of President
Kennedy's soeech I-Iondpy nisht Eust be ruepect, since his
iaolic^tion h'-s re:- alt- d 3n th-3 intcrpretatior that such
cl Soles ere oresenlly bc!=ed in Cube,
Pi>€sident Kernedy hr<3 act'^d v.-ithcut any regard for inter-
national law. On Mry 1, 1961, Ksnnedy srid, "Law is the
Btror.353t liuk betw-^en rr-n .- nc freedom fnd by strcni5th£nin<5
the rule of Irw we strengthen freedom and justice in our ov/n
cour.try rnd oontribute by sxruple to the 30,-1 of Justice
under l^v: for f 11 lurnkind," Wh?t hops is there for rll inan-
kind if the U.S. has th-~ strcn-ra^t rrJlit^rv cower delibsr'itely
and consciously octo in contradiction cf internctionf^l law
vithcut first consultivi^- any int -motion-- 1 organization? The
U.S. presented the Unitc-d Nations with a fait ,.g,c,c9.n;,?.l,i »
BsGcuss the bloclcpde was alr.^ady in p o " 1 1 i o^^vhs n tlie^U . 3 •
present3d its case before the O.A.S. and the UN, the U.S. in
fact has seriously restricted other possible alternatives
to the Caribbe£n situation^
The storniu^ of the U.S. E^ribassy in London, the rioting
and deaunstratin3 in Caracis, Rio, S-ntlaje, snd through out
Latin Aifiertca inJIcatss thrt v/oric opiiJon is not entirely
sapi.orfcing the US rction against Cuba. Francs is (ouote)
"indigant'^.
As reroonsible citizens we ir.u°t ao'-'e^l to the rationality
of the people in the Arjerioan ixovernraert. Pll Air-ericans must
realize that they are Vv?rld citizens exd aust therefore assume
respon:-lbillty for wor'lc"^=a^£o The -"i::--? ent course of action
euibfc.r'£ed upon by the'"'"j^>ovirn'L:;nt 13 proven to be a direct
thrept to >iorld_ocac3 and Iz , ■'n-refore, irresponsible v
Join us in nr o tL's t inc; the US block-- ee of C.'ubai SUPFORT
WOli L Pi/ CE . ^
'.3 TiOo Cr-pjjit.tee to Cpp:..s6 Uv£^c Aeress.'.cn
PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S. 931
Mr, NiTTLE. You were in possession of the mimeograph at one time.
Could you tell us if that mimeograph was utilized to mimeograph that
throw-away ?
Mrs. Glenn. I said, "No."
Mr. JoHANSEN. Did this Ad Hoc Committee oppose the Soviet
threat to world peace also ?
Mrs. Glenn. I. am quite sure that that is the statement of the Ad
Hoc Committee and I did not read it while I was sitting here, but I
think the sole purpose of the committee was to oppose the U.S. block-
ade of Cuba. It wasn't a pro-Cuba position. It was simply an anti-
blockade position, and many people accepted that view regardless of
what they thought of Cuba. They thought the blockade was wrong
and they thought the U.S. was wrong for organizing the blockade.
Mr. Johansen. Do we have the approximate date of this?
Mrs. Glenn. It was October 24, 1962.
Mr. NiTTLE. The latter part of October 1962, at the time of the in-
stitution of the blockade by the President.
Mr. Johansen. I note with interest the statement: "Yesterday" —
which, if this was issued the 24th, would mean the 23d or the 22d at
the earliest — "Premier Castro has stated that there are no 'offensive'
weapons in Cuba. This indicates there is no immediate threat to the
United States."
It is obvious that this was after October 22, because it refers to the
President's Monday night speech which was the 22d, so, apparently,
this document was still promoting the allegation that there were no
offensive weapons there, in contradiction to the statement of the
President.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. NiTTLE. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not Ex-
hibit 2, the throw-away to which we just referred, was distributed on
the University of Indiana campus by Ralph Levitt, then president of
the Indiana University Young Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. I just said, as nearly as I know, that that leaflet was
distributed by those in the demonstration. Mr. Levitt was in the
demonstration. I was in the demonstration, but I didn't distribute
any leaflets because I did not have them to distribute. I don't think
anyone in the demonstration was in a position to demonstrate any-
thing, if you have read anything about the demonstration at all.
Mr. NiTTLE. I believe you testified that you took part in this dem-
onstration, is that right ?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes, I did.
Mr. NiTTLE. Mrs. Glenn, it is the committee's information that Jack
Barnes is the Midwest organizer of the Young Socialist Alliance, and
I believe you testified that you knew him. Is that right?
Mrs. Glenn. Yes.
Mr. NiTTLE. And you know him to hold the position of Midwest
organizer of the Young Socialist Alliance?
Mrs. Glenn. I knew that last spring that w&, 3 his position. That
may not be now ; I don't know.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did anyone known to you to be a member of the
Socialist Workers Party or Young Socialist Alliance urge, advise, or
recommend that you travel to Cuba without a validated passport?
Mrs. Glenn. No. In fact, as I testified before, the YSA was very
much against this on this particular trip. I don't think I ever talked
932 PRO-CASTRO PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN U.S.
to them about it, about going on my own, because that opportunity
never arose.
Mr. NiTTLE. Did you make any request for a validation of your pass-
port for travel to Cuba ?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I did not.
Mr. NiTTLE. The staff has no further questions of this witness.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Senner, do you have any questions ?
Mr. Senner. No, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Johansen ?
Mr. Johansen. I just want to ask one further question. In looking
through this handbill, I find no reference to any threat to world peace
imposed by the Soviet Union. Are you in a position to say whether
or not it was the position of this Ad Hoc Committee that Soviet Russia
imposed no threat to world peace in connection with the Cuban situa-
tion as of October 22, last year ?
Mrs. Glenn. The Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggression
had no policy on anything except one thing, and that was that they
opposed the U.S. blockade of Cuba — to my knowledge as an Ad Hoc
Committee.
Mr. Johansen. They certainly had some ancillary policies, includ-
ing the false claim that the President of the United States merely
implied there were offensive weapons in Cuba and that, in doing so,
he "willfully" misrepresented the facts and jeopardized the lives of
American servicemen. Evidently, it is the United States that is all
wrong, but the position of Soviet Russia in the matter did not concern
your committee. I think that is obvious.
Mrs. Glenn. I just said that.
Mr. Johansen. I just wanted to reinforce it. I find myself in this
rare instance in agreement.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Bruce.
Mr. Bruce. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Schadeberg.
Mjr. Schadeberg. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has one question. You stated that you were
formerly a member of the Young Socialist Alliance and that you would
support a socialist revolution in the United States. Would that in-
clude support of a socialist revolution by force and violence if neces-
sary?
Mrs. Glenn. No, I am not trying to say I advocate the forceful
overthrow of the Government. No, I do not.
Mr. IcHORD. Does counsel have any other questions ?
Mr. NiTTLE. I would like to ask that John Glenn Exhibits 5, 7, and
8, be received in evidence, and that Marcia Glenn Exhibits 1, and 2 be
received in evidence.
Mr. IcHORD. They will be received in evidence.
Mrs. Glenn. May we be able to retrieve the literature which Mr.
Wilkes took from our apartment ?
Mr. IcHORD. The committee does have possession of the literature.
As I understand, the literature was not taken by a police officer. It
was handed over to the committee by Mr. Wilkes. We will take that
under consideration at a later time.
The committee will stand adjourned until further call of the Chair.
(Whereupon, at 3 :15 p.m. Monday, November 18, 1963, the commit-
tee was adjourned, subject to call of the Chair.)
INDEX
Individuals
A Page
Armstrong, Valerie 851
B
Barnes, Betsy 818, 888
Barnes, Jack 818, 824, 888, 889, 926, 927, 931
Bateson, Nicholas 840-
843, 812-814, 816, 840-843, 847-857 (testimony), 873
Batista y Zaldivar Fulgincio 823, 919
Bennett 859
Bingham, James E. (Jim) 818, 821, 824, 888, 889, 908, 910, 911, 925, 927
Bland, David 856
C
Castro, Fidel 823, 825, 828, 877, 901, 902, 919, 920, 930, 931
Clark, Tom 890
Corral, Emiliano 923
D
Delaney, Denis W 834
Dobbs, Farrell 917
Draper, Theodore 819, 889
E
Eisenhower (Dwight D.) ^ 890
F
Faulkner, Stanley 830, 832
O
Gard, June Anita 811,
812, 836-838 (testimony), 857-858 (testimony), 871, 872
Gesell, Harold J. E 816, 866, 867-871 (testimony)
Glenn, John Robert 817-824, 886-892, 893-921 ( testimony ) 924
Glenn, Marcia Haag (Mrs. John Robert Glenn) 817-
819, 821-825, 886-889, 892, 893, 898-900, 912, 913, 921-932 (testimony)
Gollobin, Ira , 847
Gonzalez, Mrs 861
Groninger, Paulann (Mrs. William Groninger) 818, 823, 888, 889, 912
Groninger, William (Bill) , 818, 888, 889, 912
Gumpert, Peter 812, 813, 838-843 (testimony), 849, 850, 873
H
Halstead, Fred , 890
Hansen, Joseph , 889, 890, 891, 917
Henderson, Charles, Jr 852, 854
Hickey, Edward J 897
Hoffman, Barry 815. 861
Hutcheson, Maurice A 834
i
98-765 O — 63 — pt. 4 9
ii INDEX
I
Page
Indenbaum, Arnold (Arnie) {see also J&cobs) 811,817,830-836
(testimony), 837-841, 846, 849, 850, 859-862, 865, 866, 871-884 (testimony)
Indenbaum, Philip 880
Indenbaum, Rose (Mrs. Philip Indenbaum) 880
Jacobs (or Jacob), J. (or Jay) (see also Indenbaum, Arnold) 811-817,
829, 833, 835, 837, 838, 840, 844r-847, 849, 850, 857-866, 868-877
K
Kennedy (John F.) 855,856,930
KlUian, John Joseph 913
King, Dennis 851, 856
L
Laub, Lee Levi. ( See Laub, Levi Lee. )
Laub,Levi Lee (born Lee Levi Laub) 811,
815, 816, 829, 836, 837, 860, 861, 871, 877, 901
Lenin, V. I 917
Levitt, Ralph 818, 821, 822, 824, 888, 889, 908-910, 925, 931
Liebknecht, Karl 917
Linke, Brunhilde 814,858-860 (testimony), 875
Long, William G 854
Luce, Phillip Abbott 901
Luxemburg, Rosa 917
M
Mao Tse-tung 857
Marsh, Jack 822, 911, 912
Martinot, Stefan (Steve) 901
McAvoy, Clifford T 817, 878
McCone, John 828
Mills, C. Wright 907
Morgan 860
Morgan, Thomas G. (Tom) 818,824,888,889
O
O'Neill, Edward R 814, 815, 860-865 (testimony), 875,876
Ortiz, Vickie (Victoria) 815, 816, 861, 862, 876
P
Pavon, Hector 923
Perham, David 815, 865-866 (testimony), 877
Phelps, Larry Wilford 813, 851, 852, 856
Pratt, Charles 851
R
Randolph 837
Rosen, Jacob 812, 814, 842, 843, 853, 857
Rosen, Milton 814, 854, 928
S
Salter, John Frederick 851
Sanford, Terry 856
Scheer, Mortimer 814, 857, 928
Schlosser, Aantol Isaac 901
Scoggins 842
Shapiro. David I 893, 921
Shaw, EJdward W 914
Sherman, Durane U 812, 813, 843-847 (testimony), 849, 868, 874
Shriver, George 821, 906-909
Smith, Don 818, 888
Smith, Polly (Mrs. Don Smith) 818, 888
INDEX ill
T Page
Trotsky, Lev (Leon) 891,913,917,919
Truman (Harry S.) 890
V
van der Jagt, H. J 814, 816, 859, 872, 875
W
Warde, William F 890
Wilkes, Harold Glenn 817-
819, 824, 886-892 (testimony) 910, 925, 926, 929, 932
Williams 819,892
Williams, Robert F 821,908,909
Organizations
A
Ad Hoc Student Committee for Travel to Cuba {see also Permanent Stu-
dent Committee for Travel to Cuba) 821,822,898,901,922
Ad Hoc Committee to Oppose U.S. Aggression 821,
825, 905, 906, 928-932
American Labor Party 817, 878, 879, 881, 882
New York State :
New York City Area 817,879
Kings County 817
Twenty-first Assembly District 817, 878, 882
Association for Academic Travel Abroad 895
BOAC. {See British Overseas Airways Corp.)
British Overseas Airways Corp. (BOAC) 811,
8ia-817, 822, 829, 833, 835, 850, 860-864, 868, 869, 875-877, 897, 899
O
Committee to Aid the Bloomington Students— 818, 823, 824, 889, 911, 912, 925-927
Cuban Federation of University Students 833,919
F
Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC) 821,
825, 898, 899, 901-903, 908, 912, 914, 916, 928, 929
Fair Play for Cuba Student Council, University of Indiana 818,
821, 823, 888, 889, 903, 905, 907, 910, 913, 928
K
KLM Royal Dutch Airline 811-817,
829, 835-837; 850, 858, 859, 865, 866, 868, 871, 872, 875-877, 899
M
Maupintour Associates 820, 895
N
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) __ 825, 929
New Left Club (University of North Carolina) 812,843,855,856
Permanent Student Committee for Travel to Cuba {see also Ad Hoc Stu-
dent Committee for Travel to Cuba) 833
Pioneer Publishers (New York CityL- 819,889,890
Progres.sive Labor Club (University of North Carolina). {See entry
under Progressive Labor Movement.)
Progressive Labor Movement 814, 817, 843, 853, 855, 873, 883, 928
Progressive Labor Club (University of North Carolina) 812-814,
842, 850-856
IV INDEX
R Page
Radio Havana 1 821, 89&-900
S
Socialist Party-Social Democratic Federation :
Young People's Socialist League (YPSL) 1 "825,929
Socialist Workers Party 819, 823, 825, 890, 912-917, 927, 931
T
Tom Maupin tour Associates. (/See Maupintour Associates.)
U
United States Government :
Senate, United States :
Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee 879
University of Indiana ( Bloomington, Ind.) 905,914,931
See also:
Fair Play for Cuba Student Council, University of Indiana.
Young Socialist Alliance, University of Indiana.
University of North Carolina 813,853,854
Progressive Labor Club. (See enitry under Progressive Labor Move-
ment. )
Y
Young People's Socialist League (YPSL). (See entry under Socialist
Party-Social Democratic Federation. )
Young Socialist Alliance (YSA) 818,
819, 823-825, 887, 888, 892, 912-917, 926-929, 931, 932
New York City 819, 890, 928
University of Indiana 818,821-825,888,889,905,910-913,925,926,931
Publications
H
History of the International Socialist Youth Movement to 1929 890
I •
In Defense of the Cuban Revolution, An Answer to the State Department
and Theodore Draper 819, 889
International Socialist Review 917
Internationale (song) 819, 890, 891
List of Publications on Socialism and the Labor Movement 890
Long View of History, The 890
M
Militant, The 819, 890
N
1948 Manifesto of the Fourth International Against Wall Street and the
Kremlin ^ 819,889
O
Only Victorious Socialist Revolutions Can Prevent the Third World War. 890
P
Political Affairs 855
B
Red Flag, The (song) 819,890,891
INDEX V
S Page
Socialist Workers Party, The 890
Solidarity (song) 819, 890, 891
T
Theory of the Cuban Revolution, The 819, 890
Too Many Babies? 890
Trotskyism and the Cuban Revolution — An Answer to Hoy 819, 889
Truth About Cuba, The 889
W
, Why Can't Everybody Have a Job? 890
T
Young Socialist, The ^ 917
Young Socialist Forum : 819. 890
o
ERRATA SHEET FOR "VIOLATIONS OF STATE DEPART-
MENT TRAVEL REGULATIONS AND PRO-CASTRO
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES,
PART 4"
Page 812, lotli line from top, "no known" should read "not known".
Page 815, last line, "Jay Jacobs" should read "Jay Jacob**.
Page 817, 2d line from top, "Jabab*' should read "Jacob*'.
Page 8G1, 12th line from bottom, "Document" should read
"Documents".
Page 868, 15th and 16th lines from bottom, "D. J. Sherman" should
read "D. U. Sherman".
Page 869, 22d line from top, "Gesell Exhibit No. 1" should read
"Gesell Exhibit Xo. 5".
Page 873, 23d line from bottom, "introduced by you to" should read
"introduced to you by".
Page 879, 22d line from bottom, "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 2" should
read "Indenbaum Exhibit No. 7".
o
MiV
9&-765
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