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Full text of "Western section of the Southern California District of the Communist Party. Hearings"

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Vf/ 



HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 



GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



us Doc 2.791 



Committee on Un-American Activities 
House 
86th Congress 



Table of Contents 

(Since these hearings are consecutively paged 
they are arranged by page number, instead of 
alphabetically by title) 



1. American National Exhibition, Moscow, ^Hc> 
July 1959 

2. Communist Training Operations, pt.l "^i<^ ' 

5. Testimony of Clinton Edvard Jencks \1'^^ 

k. Testimony of Arnold Johnson, Legislative iiv/^ 
Director of the Communist Party, U.S.A. 

5-7. Western Section of the Southern California ^ ^^ 
District of the Communist Party, pt.1-5 

8. Issues Presented by Air Reserve Center ^JU^' 
Training Manual 



9-10. Communist Training Operations, pt. 2-5 

11-12. Communist Activities Among Puerto Ricans in 
New York City and Puerto Rico, pt.1-2 



^i^fi 






WESTERN SECTION OF THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA 
DISTRICT OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-SIXTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



OCTOBER 20, 1959 



PART 1 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
(INDEX IN PART 3) 




HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY 

DEPOSITED BY THE 
UNITED STATE8 GOVERNMENT 

MAY 17 1960 

UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
48)92 WASHINGTON : 1960 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

CLYDE DOYLE, California GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

EDWLV E. WILLIS, Louisiana WILLIAM E. MILLER, New York 

WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan 

Richard Akens, Staff Director 
II 



CONTENTS 



Part 1 

Page 

Synopsis vi 

October 20, 1959 : Testimony of — 

Daniel Francis Colien 1118 

Aaron K. Cohen 1125 

Daniel Bessie 1127 

Moiselle (J.) Clinger 1133 

Afternoon session : 

Moiselle (J.) dinger (resumed) 1137 

William Rubin 1155 

Ralph Hall 1158 

Adele Allen 1162 

Dr. Murray (Julius) Goldberg 1162 

Gilbert Drummond 1166 

Adele Allen (resumed) 1168 

Part 2 

Synopsis {See Part 1, p. vi) 

October 21, 1959 : Testimony of— 

Robert Duff Brent 1171 

Harriet Blumenkranz 1174 

Lona Wells 1177 

Milton Kagan 1179 

Joe Sniderman 1181 

Paul Geiselman, Jr 1182 

John (F.) Kranen 1187 

Afternoon session : 

Marion Miller 1189 

Phyllis Lebow 1214 

Eleanor Maas 1219 

Donald Ornitz 1221 

Eleanor Maas (resumed) 1223 

Part 3 

Synopsis ( See Part 1, p. vi) 

October 22, 1959 : Testimony of— 

A. L. Wirin (Statement) 1227 

Harper (W.) Poulson 1229 

Afternoon session : 

James George McGowan 1250 

William Wallace Norton, Jr 1253 

Mark Eugene Sink 1261 

Jack Burstein 1263 

Adele Kronick Silva 1264 

Index i 

ni 



Public Law 601, T9th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides: 

Be it enacted ly the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of Ameriea in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Cninniittee «tn Fn-Amorican Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTB^ES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee,""is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces- 
sarv remedial legislation. , tt / *. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to 
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such 
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

I<\>r the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities or aiiv subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of '^uch witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the ciiairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
menilKjr designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated bv any such chairman or luemlber. 

* ■ * * * * * * 

PvULE XII 
LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec 136 To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it niay deem neces- 
sary each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent 
reports and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive 
branch of the Government. 

IV 



RULES ADOn^ED BY THE 86TH CONGRESS 
House Resolution 7, January 7, 1959 

****** 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

IS. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 

(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

******* 

26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee: and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive l^ranch of the Government. 



SYNOPSIS 

Hearings regarding Communist Party activities in southern Cali- 
fornia, with special reference to the structure and objectives of the 
"Western Section of the Southern California District of the Commu- 
nist Party, were held in Los Angeles, Calif., on October 20, 21 and 
22, 1959. The Western Section of the Southern California District 
of the Communist Party roughly covers the western portion of Los 
Angeles County— a large geographical area which extends as far 
south as Kedondo Beach, as far north as Malibu Beach, and includes 
the area known as West Los Angeles, as well as part of Beverly 
Hills. . , ^ , 

In the course of the hearings the coimnittee obtained a wealth of 
information on contemporary Communist tactics. Particularly valu- 
able testimony was presented by Mrs. Moiselle J. Clinger, Mrs. 
Marion Miller, and Mrs. Adele Kronick Silva, all of whom had 
served as undercover operatives for the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion within Communist Party units in western Los Angeles County. 
Mrs. Clinger, of Santa Monica, had served in the Communist Party 
from 1942 until 1956 ; Mrs. Miller, of West Los Angeles, was in party 
activities from 1952 mitil late 1955; while Mrs. Silva, now living 
in Oakland, had worked with Communists in West Los Angeles in 
1950, The committee also heard testimony on recent internal prob- 
lems of the Communist Party from Harper Poulson, of Los Angeles, 
who left the party in January 1957 in disagreement with certain of 
its policies. Mr. Poulson invoked the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment against self-incrimination, however, when questioned regarding 
other individuals active in the Communist conspiracy. 

Startling illustrations of Communist efforts to enter and influence 
non-Communist organizations and institutions were presented in the 
course of the hearings, which also included testimony on the mechanics 
by which Commmiists have set up their own "front" organizations to 
lure support from non-Communist Californians. The testimony 
furthermore revealed various tactics by which the party protected its . 
conspirators from possible legal consequences of membership. A 
multitude of Communist techniques for raising funds for the party's 
work were also described in striking detail. 

These tactics and techniques were revealed not only by those wit- 
nesses who testified fully, but were disclosed by indirection from the ' 
fragmentary testimony elicited from the some two dozen witnesses 
the committee had subpenaed for the hearings who are currently, or 
were recently, engaged in Communist activities in the Western Section 
of the Southern California District of the Communist Party. 



WESTERN SECTION OF THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA 

DISTRICT OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY 

Part 1 



TUESDAY, OCTOBER 20, 1959 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles^ Calif. 
public hearings 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Courtroom No. 1, United States Post 
Office and Federal Building, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Morgan M. 
Moulder (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present : Hon. Morgan M. Moulder, of Mis- 
souri, and Hon. Donald L. Jackson, of California. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and Wil- 
liam A. Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Moulder. The subcommittee will come to order. 

At a duly constituted meeting of the Committee on Un-American 
Activities it was unanimously agreed that hearings by the Commit- 
tee on Un-American Activities, or a subcommittee thereof, be held 
in Los Angeles, Calif., or at such other places as the chairman may 
determine, including the conduct of investigations deemed necessary 
by the staff in preparation therefor, relating to : 

(1) The extent, character, and objects of Communist Party activi- 
ties in Southern California, with special reference to the structure 
and objectives of the Western Section, Communist Party, Southern 
District of California ; and 

(2) The strategy and tactics of the Communist Party with regard 
to membership in and affiliation with it. 

The legislative purposes of " ( 1 ) " and " (2) " are — 

{a) to obtain additional information for use by the committee 
in consideration of a proposed amendment to Section 4 of the 
Communist Control Act of 1954, prescribing a penalty for know- 
ingly and willfully becoming or remaining a member of the Com- 
munist Party with knowledge of the purpose or objectives there- 
of, and to add to the committee's over-all knowledge on the sub- 
ject so that the Congress may be kept informed and thus prepared 
to enact remedial legislation in the national defense and for in- 
ternal security ; 

(&) to consider the need for an amendment to Sees. 4 and 5 
of the Communist Control Act of 1954, amending the Internal 
Security Act of 1950, regarding the term "membership" as used 
in the Act ; and 

1115 



IIIG INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

((,') to consider tlie need for an amendment to the last men- 
tioned sections of the said Act so as to include "affiliation" as an 
element of the Act and to define its meaning. 

(3) The execution by the administrative agencies concerned of the 
Internal Security Act of 1950, the Communist Control Act of 1954, the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act, and all other laws, the subject mat- 
ter of which is within the jurisdiction of the committee, the legislative 
purpose being to exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution of 
these laws to assist the Congress in appraising the administration 
thereof, and in developing such amendments or related legislation as 
it may deem necessary. 

(4) Any other matter within the jurisdiction of the committee which 
it, or any subcommittee thereof, appointed to conduct this hearing, 
may determine. 

The order of appointment of a subcommittee for the purpose of 
conducting this hearing is as follows : 

September 17, 1959. 
TO : Mr. Richard Arens, 
Staff Director, 

House Committee on Un-American Activities. 
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and tlie rules of this Committee, I hereby 
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, consisting 
of Representative Morgan M. Moulder, as Chairman, and Representatives Edwin 
E. Willis and Donald L. .Jackson, as associate members, to conduct hearings in 
California, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Tliursday. October 20, 21, and 22, 1059, at 
10:00 a.m., on subjects under investigation by tlie Committee and take such testi- 
mony on said days or succeeding days, as it may deem necessary. 
Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 
If any Member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 
Given under my hand tliis 17th day of September 1959. 

r Signed] Francis E. Walter, 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

For the record, may I say that there is now a quorum of the subcom- 
mittee present, consisting of myself as chairman of the subcommittee 
and my colleague, Donald L. Jackson, as a member of the committee ; 
therefore, a quorum is present. 

On June 19, 1957, the Los Angeles Herald-Express carried a report 
of an interview wdth Dorothy Healey Connelly, chairman. Communist 
Party, Southern District of California, whose conviction under the 
Smith Act had just been reversed by the Supreme Court of the United 
States in its decision in the Yates case. She is quoted as saying : 

This decision will mark a rejuvenation of the party in America. We've lost 
some members in the last few years, but now we're on our way again. 

The degree and extent of this renewed activity was deemed of such 
importance to the national welfare and the defense of the country 
that the Committee on Un-American Activities conducted extensive 
hearings in Los Angeles in September 1958 and February 1959. These 
hearings related to the extent, character, and objects of the renewed 
activities of the Communist Party in the newly organized Southern 
California District of the Communist Party. 

The current hearings will relate principally to Communist Party 
activities within the Western Section, also known as the Bay Cities 
Section, one of the twenty-eight component parts of the Southern 
California District of the Communist Party. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1117 

Committee investigations conducted in the Los An<,a^les area liave 
pointed up the strategy and tactics resorted to by the Communist Party 
in evading the legal consequences of '"membership'' in the Comnumist 
Party. Abandonment of Communist Party lists of members and 
abolition of Commmiist Party cards and other indicia of member- 
ship have necessitated another look at the definition of "membership" 
under Section 4 of the Communist Control Act of 1951: ; enlargement 
of indications of membership as listed in Section 5 of the Act; the 
strengthening of Section 7 of the xVct defining "Communist-infiltrated 
organizations," and the inclusion of "affiliation" as an element of 
the Act, 

The committee resolution authorizing this hearing states the subject 
under inquiry and the legislative puqioses with such particularity 
that there is no need for repetition. 

Novs^, when I refer to the Communist Party in this statement, as 
it exists in this country, I want to clarify and emphasize the fact that 
it is comiected with, and a part of, the international Communist 
conspiracy to rule and dominate the world. Unquestionably eveiy 
device is now being used in this country to portray the Communist 
Party and its activities in the position of innocence and doing no 
harm to us, and also to weaken the people's opposition to its activities 
in this countiy. The Communist Party movement and its dangers are 
as serious now as they were years ago and will continue to be ever 
a threat to our American way of life. And our committee will carry 
on its work in exposing communism wherever it may exist and make 
every effort we can, as Members of Congress, to protect the American 
people and our American way of life and our Government that we 
have enjoyed for so long. 

It is the standing rule of this committee that any person named in 
the course of committee hearings be given an early opportunity to 
appear before a subcommittee, if he desires, for the purpose of deny- 
ing or explainmg any testimony adversely affecting him. 

I would remind those present in this hearing room that we are 
here at the direction of Congi-ess to discharge an important legislative 
fimction. 

Congressman Jackson and I have conferred at great length in the 
preparation of this statement, and we hope that we will have the 
indulgence and the respect and the cooperation of the people here in 
the hearing room. 

I trust you will conduct yourselves as guests of this committee. A 
disturbance of any kind or audible comment during the course of 
testimony, whether favorable or unfavorable to any witness, will not 
be tolerated. For infraction of this rule offendei-s will be immedi- 
ately ejected from the room. We are here at the courtesy of the 
GoveiTunent Services Administration, and you are requested to ob- 
serve its rules against smoking. 

Do you wish to add anything to the statement? 

Mr. Jackson. No, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to call, as the first witness, Mr. Daniel Francis Cohen. 

Mr. Moulder. IMr. Cohen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you come forward, please, sir ? 

48192— 60— pt. 1 2 



1118 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. ^Moulder. Do you solemnl}' swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give before the subcommittee of the United States Con- 
gress will be the truth, the whole truth, and. nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr, Cohen. I do. 

Mr. JklouLDER. Will you proceed ? 

TESTIMONY OF DANIEL EEANCIS COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, LEO EENSTER 

Mr. Tavenner. ^Vliat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. CoHEX. Daniel Cohen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ? 

Mr. Cohen. C-o-h-e-n. 

Mr. Ta\tnner. It is noted that you are accompanied by comisel; 
would counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Fenster. Yes, may the record indicate that Daniel Cohen is 
represented by Leo Fenster, F-e-n-s-t-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Cohen? 

Mr. Cohen. Trenton, New Jersey, June 22, 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. "^Vliere do you now reside ? 

Mr. Cohen. In Los Angeles County. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles County ? 

Mr. Cohen. Approximately 7 or 8 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you leave your native State of New Jersey at 
that time to come to California, or did you live at another place? 

Mr. Cohen. No, I moved directly here from New Jerse3^ 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Have you resided at any other place in any other 
state than New Jersey and California ? 

Mr. Cohen. May I consult with comisel ? 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Surely. 

Mr. Cohen. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer that ques- 
tion based upon my rights under the American Constitution, as 
amended, including the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you refer to the fifth amendment, are you 
referring to that part of the fifth amendment relating to the privilege 
of not testifying regarding any matter that may tend to incriminate 
you? 

Mr. Fenster. If the record may indicate that I have advised the 
witness that he is not to testify on the basis of the fifth amendment, 
which provides that no person is required to testify against himself, 
and that in regard to the question of incrimination, as you know, the 
Constitution pro^ades that he is not required to testify against himself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the answer of the witness ? 

Mr. Fenster. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Cohen. That is the answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am addressing my remarks to the witness. 

Mr. Cohen. The witness has confidence in counsel, and concurs in 
the answer. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee advises and instructs the witness to 
respond to the question propounded by counsel for the committee. 

Mr. Cohen. Wiich question are you referring to ? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1119 

Mr. Moulder. The question which counsel has asked you; will you 
repeat the question, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Cohen. As to the question of counsel is my answer- 

Mr. MouLDEK. No, the counsel cannot speak for the witness. 

Mr. Cohen. Well, I have stated that 1 concur in the answer of 
counsel that that is my answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that there may be no misunderstanding, let 
me repeat my question. 

Are you relying on that part of the fifth amendment to the Consti- 
tution regarding the right to refuse to answer a question which may 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Cohen. I am relying upon all of my rights under the Con- 
stitution, as amended, including the first and fifth amendments ; and 
my understanding is that the fifth amendment includes the right not 
to bear witness against myself. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. All right. 

What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Cohen. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer the ques- 
tion for the same mentioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the coimnittee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Cohen. Upon advice of counsel I decline to answer based 
upon — excuse me, shall I go through the entire formula each time? 

Mr. Tavenner. You may say on the same grounds, if you desire. 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you served in the Armed Forces of the United 
States? 

Mr. Cohen. I believe that Government records will show that I 
did not serve in the Armed Forces of the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you believe, are you in doubt about it ? 

Mr. Cohen. No, I have no doubt about it; I did not serve in the 
Armed Forces. The only reason I stated my answer that way is that 
the conunittee has adequate records on these questions, and I see no 
reason for raising them here at the hearing. 

Mr. Tavenner. At a previous hearing of this committee in Los 
Angeles in September of 1958, the committee learned of the reorgan- 
ization of the Communist Party for the Southern District of Cali- 
fornia. We learned, as a result of that hearing, that there was es- 
tablished in the Southern District of California a District Council 
composed of 62 members. It is the committee's information that you 
were a member of that council, the District Council. Were you such 
a member? 

Mr. Cohen. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of that District Coimcil of the 
Communist Party, Southern California District now ? 

Mr. Cohen. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not this council, com- 
posed of 62 members, is responsible for the conduct of the affairs of 
the Communist Party in the Southern District of California at this 
time? 

Mr. Cohen. Same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed that you were a dele- 
gate, one of the California delegates to the National Convention of 
the Communist Party held in New York City from February 9th 
through the 12th of 1957 ; did you attend that convention ? 



1120 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. CoiiEX. Same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. TA\'E]srNER. In examining public information relating to the 
conduct of the 16th National Convention of the Communist Party 
of the United States held in New York on the dates mentioned, we 
find there is an article written by Walter K. Lewis, entitled, "U.S. 
Communists Convene" (New Leader, Feb. 25, 1957). A paragraph 
from this article reads as follows : 

The real key to the political tone of the convention lay in a seemingly small 
incident which was never reported to the daily press. Delegates close to the 
Morning Freiheit, Yiddish-language edition of the Daily Worker, introduced a 
motion to condemn the Soviet assault on Jewish culture * * *. In the interest 
of "Party unity" the motion was quashed in the resolutions committee. Since 
the same consideration had led U.S. Communists to applaud the worst horrors 
of the Stalin era, it is difficult to see any significant change in the Party's es- 
sence as a result of the 16th convention. 

Did you play any part in the quashing of the resolutions committee 
condemning the Soviet Union for its action toward Jewish writers 
and Jewish culture ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the above-mentioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavexnek. Do you have any knowledge on the subject which 
you could give the committee the benefit of ? 

Mr. Cohen. Will you please explain your question more? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes. Do you have any laioAvledge of the action 
of that committee which quashed any criticism of the Soviet Union 
for its treatment of the Jews which you could give to this committee ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the same reasons. Would coun- 
sel excuse me a moment, please ? 

Mr. Fenster. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is public knowledge that at the 16th National 
Convention there was a factional fight within the Communist Party 
with what were known as the Foster supporters on the one side, and 
revisionists led by John Gates on the otlier; which side were you on? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not, during 
the course of that convention, you observed anything to indicate a 
pressure on the part of the Soviet Union to support the Foster faction 
in this factional figlit that existed ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for tlie above-mentioned reasons. 

Mr. Moulder. As I understand, you are invoking all provisions of 
the Constitution in refusing to, or declining to, answer any and all 
questions which are propounded to you by counsel for the committee? 

Mr. Cohen. I thought the Chair had ruled that I could so answer 
to cover the previously made statement of invoking all constitutional 
provisions. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Jackson. Counsel made that provision. 

Mr, Fenster. Yes, of course, utilization of the first and fifth. 

Mr. Cohen. Do I have the Chair's permission to so answer? 

Mr. Mout.der. Yes, you may answer by merely referring to the same 
reasons which you previously claimed. My point is, that you come 
before the committee premeditatively prepared not to answer any 
questions or to give the committee any information. 

Mr. Cohen. That, sir, is not true. T think 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1121 

Mr. JMouLDER. Sq far you haven't answered any (question except by 
stating your name. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Mr. Cohen, there is a very enliglitening article writ- 
ten by Plarry Schwartz, which appeared in the February 4, 1957, 
issue of the New York Times. I would like to read you a few para- 
grajohs from that article, and elicit from you the information as to 
whether or not it is correct, or any other observation that you can 
truthfully make regarding it. 

The Soviet Communist party made unmistakably clear yesterday that it favored 
victory for William Z. Foster's faction at the United States Comnuinist Party 
"national convention," which opens here Saturday. 

In language similar to that employed by Mr. Foster in an article published last 
October, the Moscow newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya, attacked "rightwing ele- 
ments" among American Communists and singled out for particular criticism 
Joseph Clark, foreign editor of the Daily Worker here. 

As reported by the United press, the Soviet newspaper linked Secretary of 
State John Foster Dulles and rightwing Communists here as advocates of a 
'■national communism" that would "divide and conquer" the Communist world. 

Yesterday's attack was the third recent indication of Moscow displeasure with 
some groups of American Communists, particularly those associated with the 
Daily Worker. 

The two earlier indications had been an attack on the Daily Worker's editorial 
disapproval of the Soviet military intervention in Hungary last November, and 
a short, but bitter, onslaught on "Rightists" among Ajnerican Communists by 
the Soviet Communist Party magazine, Partinaya Zhizn. 

There has been much speculation recently that the rightwing elements among 
American Communists, whose leader is generally taken to be John Gates, editor 
and chief of the Daily Worker, were weakened under the pressure of Moscow's 
displeasure. One sign so interpreted by some observers was the decision of the 
New York State Communists, where rightwing elements are particularly strong, 
a week ago not to press for immediate conversion of the Communist Party into 
a Communist political education association. 

Since yesterday's Moscow attack came after the concessions made by the 
rightwing at the New York meeting, the inference would seem indicated that the 
Soviet leaders were still unsatisfied and demanded both the victory of Mr. Foster's 
group and the serious rewriting of the draft resolution. 

Did you observe any of those three efforts on the part of the Soviet 
Union to affect the policy of the 16th National Convention of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think the public generally and, of course, all mem- 
bers of the Communist Party are thoroughly acquainted with the 
Duclos letter back in 1945, which was designed to influence the action 
of the Communist Party of the United States in overthrowing Brow- 
der and in the reconstitution of the Connnunist Party according to 
the lines of its original formation. Duclos also makes such an effort 
at the convention of the 16th National Convention. 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Even after the convention had terminated there 
was, according to an article published in the Soviet Union, a definite 
effort made to influence the future action of the Communist Party of 
the United States. This is contained in an article over the name of 
T. Timofeyev, appearing on page 104 of the March 1957 issue of 
International Affairs, published in Moscow, and I would like to call 
to the committee's attention and your attention what he had to say. 

An overwhelming majority voted [in speaking of the 16th National Conven- 
tion] against the idea of turning the Communist Party into a "political or educa- 
tional association" and called for the strengthening and consolidation of the 
Communist Party of the United States. 



1122 nsWESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

The convention reaffirmed its loyalty to the principles of proletarLau inter- 
TinHoLlism This point was made in the main reports and delegates' speeches, 
o^H oiS^" thP reiliuons in one of ^Yhich the convention reemphasized the 
T nn Pn^ fv'. ?ovaltv to the '^-reat principle of proletarian internationalism." 
The pSLble to th^new pa^^^^ at the convention npholds the 

?ardinalTScip?e that thei? common interests are the link uniting the workers 
of all countries. 

Are you familiar with that article ? Have you seen it before ? 

Mr. Cohen. On the advice of counsel, same answer, same reasons. 

^ Mr' TrvEKNER. Is it not true, Mr. Cohen, that the November 1957 
declaration of the twelve Communist Parties made m Moscow, m 
which Yugoslavia refused to join, was another method used by Moscow 
to support the Foster faction of the Communist Party m this country ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the same reasons, i don t sup- 
pose I can add anything to this ? , J- • i.^ 

Mr. Moulder. Where was this convention you are referring to, 

Mr.Tavenner? ^. , , , -r^ i n + 10 lOf^T 

Mr. Tavenner. In New York City, held Febraary 9 to 12, 1957, 
the 16th National Convention of the Communist Party, to which our 
information is that this witness was a delegate from California. 

Mr. Moulder. Let's see, what is your occupation f 

Mr. Cohen. I believe the record will show I declined to answer that 
for the same reasons. 

Mr. Moulder. Any other questions ? 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. Yes, sir. 

Was Dorothy Healey also a delegate to this same national conven- 
tion^ 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the above-mentioned reasons. _ 

Mr Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the Southern Caiitornia 
District held after the national convention, in which the factual mat- 
ters to which I have referred were fully discussed ? 

Mr. Cohen. Which matters are you referring to? 

Mr Tavenner. The four or five instances m which the Commu- 
nists, the Soviet Union attempted to influence the action of the Com- 
munist Party of the United States in behalf of the Foster faction, and 
against the so-called revisionists led by John Gates. 

Mr Cohen Decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr Moulder. Were there other instances or knowledge that you 
have about the meeting that you could give the committee? When 
you asked counsel which instance, or what information he was asking 
you about, do you have any other knowledge ? . 

Mr Cohen. Just wasn't clear as to what the question was, sir, so i 
asked for the thing to be stated more definitely ; after all, counsel had 
read from quite a number of documents. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. • ^1 o ^i 

Mr Twenner. Mr. Cohen, do yon know whether m the Southern 
California District the Communist Party met with difficulties m the 
resignation of members after the beginning of the trials in the Smith 
Act cases in New York ? 

Mr. Cohen. Declinetoanswer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavennek. The committee has obtained a copy of a letter 
wiitten in Decem])er of 1958, signed liy twenty-two members of the 
Communist Party in the Southern California District, which is in the 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1123 

nature of a letter of grievances, to the National Committee of the Com- 
mimist Party regarding the factional matters that arose in the na- 
tional convention, and which I may say led later to some resignations 
from the Communist Party in this area. Have you ever seen that 
letter? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who composed it ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is one matter of particular importance deal- 
ing directly with the purposes of this hearing which appears in that 
letter. The position is taken in this letter of grievances, without 
quoting its exact language, that persons who have withdrawn from 
the Communist Party should be recognized as participating in the 
Communist Party movement, although no longer organizational mem- 
bers of the Commimist Party. Will you tell the committee what you 
know about a plan of that kind, as to whether such a plan existed or 
not? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is part of the language on the subject as con- 
tained in that letter. They advised "making the present structure of 
the party more flexible so that membership in the present type of 
party club is not necessarily a requirement for adherence to the 
organization." 

Now, are you aware of the names of persons who have withdrawn 
from the Communist Party, that is, from actual membership in it, but 
who are still supporting tlie Communist Party and are active adherents 
to its objectives? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. I 
would just like to add one thing, there has been quite a number of 

Mr. Tavenner. Add something, did you say ? 

Mr. Fenster. That is what he said. 

Mr. Cohen. Yes. "Would counsel be pleased with my adding some- 
thing? I obviously have answered a number of times that I decline 
to answer for constitutional reasons. I would just like to state at this 
time that I would object to anybody concluding from my refusal to 
answer that I give credence to the questions or to the nature of the 
questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well now, let us be a little more specific about that ; 
are you a member of the Commimist Party now ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer for the aforementioned reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you repeat the statement that you would not 
want anyone to think that you are a member of the Communist Party 
because you refuse to answer ? Answer it, please. 

Mr. Fenster. Would you restate that question ? 

Mr. Cohen. May I understand your question first before I answer? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Do you wish the committee not to consider 
that you are a member of the Communist Party because you have 
refused to answer that question ? 

Mr. Cohen. Quite obviously I have no power over what the com- 
mittee chooses to think or not think, 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Cohen. The committee is operating under its own procedures, 
which do not give me the right to cross-examine witnesses, which do 



1124 ESrV'ESTIGATIOiSr OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

not give me due process of law, as I understand it to exist under our 
Constitution; therefore, I have not stated in any way what I expect, 
or do not expect, the committee to miderstand. I am powerless under 
the situation 



Mr. Tavenner. You are just addressing 

Mr. Cohen. To make such a statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are addressing your remarks to the public, is 
that correct, not to the committee ? 

Mr. Cohen. No ; I am putting in the committee's record my opinion 
of this. I don't, as I say, expect the committee to become convinced 
because I have not stated, but I want the record, I want to have the 
record show 

Mr. MouXiDER. Mr. Tavenner, may I inquire of the witness, what 
witness do you wish to cross-examine ? 

Mr. Cohen. I would like to cross-examine any witness who con- 
nected me in any way with the proceedings and who is responsible for 
bringing any evidence that I am being questioned about. 

Mr. Moulder. You have the opportunity now to deny these ques- 
tions that have been propounded to you. 

Mr. Cohen. It is only before a committee of the House of Kepre- 
sentatives, or the Senate of the United States that the due processes of 
justice in this country are reversed, and the burden of proof is upon a 
witness and not upon the accuser. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any forum before which you would deny that 
you are a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cohen. Excuse me, may I consult ? 

I decline to answer that question also on the aforementioned 
grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. It isn't a question of the forum, it is the nature of 
the question to which you object, isn't that true? Isn't it a fact that 
\ou could not, under oath, state affirmatively before any forum that 
you are not now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds, and 
add that I was not — that I was objecting to the nature to the hearings ; 
yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. But the answer, your declination, the invocation of 
your constitutional privilege, is not to be interpreted by anyone to 
mean that you are a member of the Communist Party, that is one 
of the points you are making, is it not ? 

Mr. Cohen. I made a rather blanket statement, if the Congressmen 
will remember. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. Cohen. And I would prefer to leave it that way. 

Mr. Moulder. Any other questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no other questions, 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Call the next witness, please. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Aaron K. Cohen. Will you come forward, 
please, sir ? 

Mr. ]\Iout.der. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which 
you are a])out to give before this subcommittee of the United States 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1125 

Congress will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so helpyou God ? 
Mr. Cohen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF AARON K. COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
ROSE S. ROSENBERG 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Cohen. Aaron K. Cohen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ? 

Mr. Cohen. C-o-h-e-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not any relative to the Mr. Cohen who 
preceded you on the witness stand, are you ? 

Mr. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are represented by counsel; 
would counsel please identify herself ? 

Mrs. Rosenberg. Rose S. Rosenberg, b-e-r-g. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Cohen ? 

Mr. Cohen. July 8, 1904. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where, I say ? 

Mr. Cohen. Odessa. 

Mr. Moulder. Where ? 

Mr. Cohen. Odessa, Ukraine. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Cohen. Mr. Chairman, it is impossible to discuss, with all 
these pictures here. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. The witness requests the photographers to 
refrain from taking pictures during the course of his testimony. 

Mr. Cohen. I would appreciate that. 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was, when did you first come to this 
country ? 

Mr. Cohen. 1921. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. Cohen. I am naturalized by act of Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. By act of Congress ? 

Mr. Cohen. That is as a minor, I came here as a minor. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a minor ? 

Mr. Cohen. Under act of Congress, automatically. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat do you mean by being naturalized by an act 
of Congress ? 

Mr. Cohen. That is right ; it is also known as the derivative. 

Mr. Tavenner. Derivative citizenship ; in other words, your father 
was naturalized ? 

Mr. Cohen. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was he naturalized ? 

Mr. Cohen. I really don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the approximate date ? 

Mr. Cohen. I couldn't even do that. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what court was he naturalized? In what State? 

Mr. Cohen. In New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. And under what name ? 

Mr. CoiiEN. Cohen, same name. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What was his first name? 

48192— 60— pt. 1 3 



1126 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. CoHEx. Kalmaii. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Will you spell that ? 

Mr, Cohen. K-a-1-m-a-n. 

Mr, TA^'ENNER. How long did you live in New York City ? 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on the first and fifth amendment s. 

Mr. Ta^'enner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Cohen. I reside in Beverly Hills, 120 South Hamel Drive. 

Mr. Taatenner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Mr. Cohen. Since 1945. 

JSIr. Ta\t:nner. "Wliat is your occupation ? 

Mr. Cohen. I am self-employed. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a salesman? 

Mr. Cohen. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your formal educational training? 

Mr. Cohen. I had no formal education. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
in the State of California as far back as 1946 ? 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on the same grounds and for the 
same reasons. 

Mr. Moulder. What is your occupation now, what are you engaged 
in now? What work do you do? 

Mr, Cohen. I said that I am self-employed, salesman. 

Mr. Moulder. A salesman? 

Mr. Cohen. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate from the Western Section of 
the Communist Party to the convention of the Communist Party for 
the Southern California District held on April 13 and 14, 1957 ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the same grounds and same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the Western Section of the Communist Party 
one of twenty-eight sections of the Southern California District ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer, same gromids, same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not you have 
been assigned any particular duties by the Communist Party, and b}^ 
duties I mean work within mass organizations, that is, organizations 
other than that of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the same grounds for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the meeting, at the convention of April 13 and 14, 
1957, Dorothy Healey, the chairman for the Southern California Dis- 
trict of the Communist Party, made a report relating to certain activi- 
ties to be engaged in by members of the Communist Party. I read 
excerpts from her report : 

* * * they [Communists] are working in community organizations, fraternal 
organizations, or churches. * * * A further expression of tlie way to develop 
and consolidate the antimonopoly alliance, is through our participation in 
activating the program of the people's organizations to which we belong. 

^Vhat people's organization did you belong to ? 
Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the same grounds for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I continue with her report : 

During the last few years, a myth developed that our leading role was dis- 
played only if we came up with program and issues initiated by ourselves. 
Such an idea has nothing in common with Marxism — Leninism * * * So we 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1127 

start by trying to unite the members on issues already projected by their own 
organizations [that is, organizations other than the Communist Party] and 
continue by finding the way to unite that organization and its members, with 
others. 

This would indicate a very definite plan on the j)art of the Com- 
munist Party under its rejuvenated activity to conduct special cam- 
paigns within other organizations. Now, I want to ask you what 
other organizations you were directed to work in, in conformity with 
her plan? 

Mr. CoHEisr. Decline to answer on the same grounds for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the same grounds for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. TA^^3NNER. Are you a delegate from the Western Section of 
the Communist Party to the [Southern California] District Council 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cohen. Decline to answer on the same grounds for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Call the next witness, please. 

Mr. Taitinner. Yes, sir. 

Daniel Bessie, will you come forward, please ? 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bessie. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DANIEL BESSIE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

LEO FENSTER 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Chairman, are statements permitted to be made 
before this committee ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. You can file the statement with the committee. 

Mr. Bessie. But you do not 

Mr. Moulder. But under the rules, the witness is not permitted to 
make a formal written statement. You are here to answer questions 
which may be propounded to you and to give us, the committee, such 
information as you may have concerning the subject matter about 
which the counsel will ask you. 

Mr. Bessie. Who will I file that with, please ? 

Mr. Moulder. You may file it right here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please? 

Mr. Bessie. My name is Daniel Bessie. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ? 

Mr. Bessie. B-e-s-s-i-e ; just like a girl's first name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Fenster. Yes, the record may indicate that Leo Fenster repre- 
sents Daniel Bessie. 



1128 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mr. Bessie. I was bom in the town of Land Grove, Vermont. 
August 28, 1932. 

Mr. Tavtinner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Mr. Bessie. Let me thirJi a minute, about 13 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside ? 

Mr. Bessie. I reside in Santa Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Bessie. I am self-employed. I am a free-lance animator, I do 
television commercials. 

Mr. JNIouLDER. Do what ? 

Mr. Bessie. Television commercials ; you know, buy such and such 
a beer. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your formal educational training? 

Mr. Bessie. I attended the public schools of Connecticut, Pennsyl- 
vania and New York, and Santa Monica, Calif. I am a graduate of 
the high school in Santa Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in Pennsylvania ? 

Mr. Bessie. Excuse me? 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in Pennsylvania ? 

Mr. Bessie. Gee, that was a long time ago, I was only about 8 years 
old at the time. I am not really sure of the name of the town. It 
was somewhere near Philadelphia, but I don't remember the town. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you live in New York ? 

Mr. Bessie. In New York City and in Poughkeepsie, upstate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bessie, our information is that you attended the 
Ijos Angeles County Communist Party convention on January 5 and 6, 
1957 ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Bessie. Any questions such as this, concerning any associations 
or affiliations I may have, I feel are improper questions in that they 
violate the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States ; 
therefore, I will decline to answer this question on the first amend- 
ment and on the fifth amendment, the provision, the specific provision 
being that a witness shall not be required to, shall not be required to 
be a witness against himself. 

Mr. Tavenner. The convention of the newly created Southern 
California District of the Communist Party was held on April 13 and 
14, 1957 ; did you attend that convention ? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Tavenner, this is a similar question ; and since I 
have already answered the previous one on my constitutional 
grounds — stating it — I really see no necessity for asking any further 
questions along this line. This is your privilege to ask them, but I 
will again decline this question on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, we live in the hope that you may change your 
mind about that and give the committee the benefit of information 
which you may have. 

At this convention of April 13 and 14, 1957, Dorothy Healey made 
a report regarding activities which the Communist Party considered 
to be vital ; we find this, for instance : 

We are not in a position to project a definitive program of work among youth. 
"We know that the future of our party lies in our ability to win youth to the 
cause of socialism. ♦ ♦ ♦ high on the priority list on our party's program, 
should be the planned and conscious approach toward the young people in the 
mass organizations and unions in which we participate. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1129 

Did you either hear that report made, or did you at any later time 
read that part of the report ? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Tavenner, same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Moulder. That is, you decline to answer for the same reasons 
previously stated, is that correct? 

Mr. Bessie. Yes, that is correct, Mr. Chairman, that such a question 
violates my rights under the Constitution. And I also would like to 
register a protest in the attempt of tliis committee to get me to violate 
my rights under the Constitution. Tliis is my personal opinion, and 
I feel the committee is doing this, 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not correct that you have been extremely active 
in youth work? 

Mr. Bessie. Wliat kind of youth work ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Any kind of youth work. 

Mr. Bessie. May I confer with counsel ? 

Comisel advises me that I am within my constitutional rights to de- 
cline to answer this for the previously stated reasons. 

Mr. Moulder. Well, do you claim that right in good faith 

Mr. Bessie. I do so claim. 

Mr. Moulder. To the committee, and state to the committee that to 
divulge any information concerning your activites with youth work 
might tend to incriminate you and subject you to criminal prosecu- 
tion? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Chairman, I am sure you are aware that the fifth 
amendment says nothing whatsoever about self-incrimination. I am 
declining on the grounds that I do not need to be a witness against 
myself. The implication is the committee's implication, it is not my 
implication. 

Mr. Moulder. Well, you must claim that privilege in good faith. 

Mr. Bessie. I do so claim, 

Mr. Moulder. Just in order to 

Mr, Bessie. I do so claim it in good faith. 

Mr. Jackson. Let me ask, Mr. Chairman, 

Did you ever do any work, Mr. Bessie, with the Y.M.C.A. ? 

Mr. Bessie, Mr, Jackson, this is another attempt, nothing more 
than another attempt, to get me to answer a similar question like 
this ; and again I will say the same answer for the same reasons, 

Mr, Jackson, Well, I don't know that the Y,M.C.A. or that any 
activity you might have had in that connection would submit you 
to any criminal prosecution. 

Mr. Bessie, May I comment on that, Mr, Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No. I mean, you have given your answer. You 
are claiming your constitutional prerogative, and that is sufficient. 
Mr. Tavenner. Were you, in 1955, chairman of a club of the Labor 
Youth League in Santa Monica ? 

Mr. Bessie. This again is another of your questions, Mr. Tavenner, 
along this line. I have stated that I feel these questions are in vio- 
lation of the rights, of my rights under the Constitution. I feel they 
are improper questions. I feel the committee has no constitutional 
right to ask them, and under the first and the fifth amendment I will 
again decline to answer these questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Partv in 
1955? 



1130 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Tavenner, I will not attempt to, I will not aid this 
committee in its attempt to violate the Constitution ; same answer for 
the same reasons. 

Mr. Jackson. Just a moment. "Aid tliis committee to violate the 
Constitution" is a presumption of the witness, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Bessie. It is an opinion. 

Mr. Jackson. The House of Representatives by an overwhelming 
majority takes a different view. 

Mr. Bessie. I am aware of that. 

Mr. Jackson. I want to get this divergence of opinion on the record. 

Mr. Bessie. However, is it not correct, Mr. Jackson, as you say, in 
spite of the fact that a majority of our Government may offer one 
policy, it is the right of every citizen to disagree with that policy ? 

Mr. JxVCKsoN. Yes, or to agree. 

Mr. Bessie. Or agree with it as he so chooses. 
_ Mr. Jackson. Yes, that is a right you have. We have not ques- 
tioned your right to avail yourself of the amendments which you have 
taken. We have no questions as to that. 

Mr. Bessie. Thank you. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. On March 8, 1957, were you chairman of a Labor 
Youtli League meeting at which it was announced the National Con- 
vention of the Communist Party had taken action to disband the 
league ? 

Mr. Bessie. May I confer with counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Bessie. I will stand on all the constitutional grounds I have 
previously stated, the first and the fifth amendments, as well as any 
others which may apply. 

Mr. Jackson. And decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Bessie. And decline to answer the question on those grounds, 
yes. 

Mr. Tavenner, Is it a fact, as demonstrated by evidence that has 
been introduced, that the Labor Youth League was disbanded at about 
the time I mentioned. Now, isn't it true that after disbanding of that 
organization an attempt was made to start a new youth organization? 

Mr. Bessie. Same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Ta MANNER. Were you connected with any effort to organize a 
new youth organization after March 8, 1957 ? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Tavenner, the proceedings have gone on for quite 
a time now, and you have previously stated you hoped I would change 
my mind and my answers, and it is obvious that I am answering any 
questions of association, affiliation, or what-not by claiming my con- 
stitutional privileges, and it is obvious that any questions which would 
attempt to link me with any organization, group, or person that your 
committee has decided is subversive, I will continue to answer on my 
constitutional grounds. I will answer this question by saying the 
same; I decline to answer on my constitutional grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you have any loiowledge or information concern- 
ing the activities of any subversive organization in this country ? 

Mr. Bessie. Same answer for the same reasons, Mr. Moulder. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1131 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation has disclosed in- 
formation indicating that in April of 1957 you were chairman of a 
meeting of members of the Labor Youth League which decided to 
call themselves by the name of the Los Angeles County Progressive 
Youth League. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Bessie. I claim my constitutional privilege of refusing to be a 
witness against myself and also the first amendment to the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. Tavexner. Is that league in existence now ? 

Mr. Bessie. The previous answer will suffice, I refuse to answer for 
the reasons previously given. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, just in the interest of protecting the 
witness' last answer, he said the first amendment to the Constitu- 
tion 



Mr. Fenster. He also indicated the fifth. 

Mr. Jackson. I want to be sure it is on the record. 

Mr. Moulder. I just want to clarify my question. A moment ago 
when you stated you will not give us any information concerning 
your affiliation or association with any organization which the commit- 
tee deems to be subversive, would you answer any question which may 
be propounded to you by counsel about any subversive organization 
which you deem to be subversive, or do you have any knowledge about 
any such subversive organization ? 

Mr. Bessie. Well, you have asked me three or four questions in one, 
Mr. ^Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. I will ask you a very simple question. Do you have 
any knowledge or information concerning any organization which you 
believe to be subversive ? 

Mr. Bessie. You have already asked me that question, and I al- 
ready stated a constitutional reason for refusing to answer it, and I 
will again state the constitutional reason for refusing to answer. 

Mr. Moulder. We are in complete accord then on the identity of 
subversive organizations. 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Moulder, I will be glad to discuss our different 
opinions of subversion in this country off the record at any time you 
would so desire. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived in the Los Angeles area continuously 
since the time you first moved here, or have you lived for a period of 
time at other places ? 

Mr. Bessie. May I confer with counsel, please? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Bessie, No, I have not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you spend a period of time in New Mexico in 
1958? 

Mr. Bessie. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you there ? 

Mr. Bessie. It was about 6 or 7 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to the Los Angeles area ? 

Mr. Bessle. It was early of, early this year. I don't remember the 
exact month, but it was early this year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, at about the time you left in 1958, had you not 
indicated an inclination to get out of the Communist Party ? 



1132 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Bessie. "Well, this is a loaded question, I feel, Mr. Tavenner; 
you have no — if you would, well, I will just decline to answer on the 
constitutional grounds. 

iMr. Tavenxer. Let me make it more correct. 

Mr. Bessie. Yes, I would appreciate that. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you get out of the Communist Party for a period 
of time in 1958, and by getting out of the Communist Party I mean 
cease to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bessie. I will claim my constitutional rights of the first and 
fifth amendments, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenxer. All right. Now, Mr. Bessie, we have discovered, 
during the course of these hearings, a plan on the part of some persons 
connected with the Communist Party to establish the principle of 
withdrawal from membership in the Communist Party, organization- 
ally speaking, and yet continue in the relationship of adherence to 
the Communist Party and continuing to support the Communist Party 
in various Avays. Are you a person that would be under that category ? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Jackson, you are my representative in Congress, I 
turn to you. This line of questioning has gone on, and I have con- 
tinually declined any answers of this kind on constitutional reasons. 
Do you feel that this sort of questioning can continue ? 

Mr. Jacksox. I feel that your rights are fully protected if you sim- 
ply decline to answer for the reasons previously stated. 

Mr. Bessie. But you feel there is no reason for it to stop ? 

Mr. Jackson. I have no way of knowing to what point counsel is 
directing his inquiry. 

Mr. Bessie. I see. Thank you. 

Mr. Jacksox. For that reason I would not feel constrained to at- 
tempt to put any curb on him, at the same time assuring you that your 
rights will be protected adequately by simply refusing to answer. 

Mr. Bessie. Thank you. Would you repeat the question ? 

]Mr. Tavenner. Would you read the question ? 

( The question was read. ) 

Mr. Bessie. As Mr. Jackson, my representative, has informed me 
[ may claim my constitutional privileges, therefore, I will refuse to 
answer that question on the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Jackson. I dare say you knew that before that comment. 

Mr. Bessie. Knew that you Avere my representative ? 

Mr. Jackson. I dare say that you knew your rights were adequately 
protected before I advised you. 

Mr. Bessie. I had to say that, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. You are represented by counsel, and I am sure he 
so advised you. 

Mr. Fexster. Let the record so indicate, yes. 

j\Ir. Taa^nner. On your return from New Mexico in 1959, have you 
engaged in any Communist Parly activity in the Los Angeles area? 

Mr. Bessie. I would like to offer a comment as to my stay in New 
Mexico, if I may, prior to answering that question. May I do so? 

Counsel advises me that I may decline to answer that question simply 
without making any comment. On the grounds previously stated, I 
will so do. Excuse me. 

Mr. Taa-enxer. Did you return to Los Angeles prior to July of 
1959 ? I believe you stated the first of the year, but I am not certain. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1133 

Mr. Bessie. I don't think — I think it was prior to July, I am not 
sure, I think it was. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting on July 10, 1959, which 
was a reception for Gus Hall, one of the Smith Act defendants from 
the East? 

]\Ir. Bessie. I decline to answer that on the grounds that I have 
previously stated, the constitutional grounds I previously stated. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Will you tell us the purpose of the reception ? 

Mr. Bessie. It is another related question; again I will decline on 
the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mr. Bessie. Mr. Tavenner, and gentlemen of the committee, I feel 
this questioning has gone on quite long enough really, although as 
you said, Mr. Jackson, I may claim a constitutional privilege; and I 
feel there are many worthwhile un-American activities that could be 
investigated in the South, terrorism against Negro children, which 
you refuse to investigate, so I will decline to answer, Mr. Tavenner, on 
the constitutional grounds I have previously stated. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You are a resident of Santa Monica. Is Santa 
Monica an area Avithin the Western Section of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bessie. I decline to answer that on the same, for the same rea- 
sons, same constitutional reasons I previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No, I have no questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. You may claim your wit- 
ness fees from the clerk of the committee. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for a period of 
5 minutes. 

(Short recess taken.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Call the next witness, please, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Moiselle dinger. Will you come forward, 
please, Mrs. dinger ? 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give to this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Clinger. I do. 

Mr. Moulder. All right, proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF MOISELLE (J.) CLINGER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, Mrs. Clinger. 

Mrs. Clinger. Moiselle Clinger. 

Mr. Tav^enner. How do you spell your first name? 

Mrs. Clinger. M-o-i-s-e-l-l-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your last name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. C-1-i-n-g-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little more, please? 
It is noted that you do not have counsel with you. It is the practice 
of the committee to explain to all witnesses that they are entitled to 
counsel, if they desire. Do you desire counsel ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No ; I don't feel that I need it. 

48192— 60— pt. 1 4 



I 

1134 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Ta^-enner. You don't feel that you need counsel ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. Do you live in Los Angeles, Mrs. Clmger i 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes ; I live in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Ta-\t3nner. How long have you been a resident of Los Angeles i 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, 25, 30 years. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Where were you born ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Li Oklahoma City. 

Mr. Tavennt:r. What is your occupation? 

Mrs. Clinger. Housewife. 

Mr. Tav-enner. What has been your previous occupation? 

Mrs. Clinger. I have been employed by Douglas Aircraft. 

Mr. Moulder. I didn't understand you. 

Mrs. Clinger. I have been employed by Douglas Aircraft Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed by Douglas Aircraft? 

Mrs. Clinger. Approximately 11 years, but not consecutively. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you engaged in work of any type for the 
United States Government ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the nature of that work? 

Mrs. Clinger. I was undercover agent for the FBI. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. For the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time ? 

Mrs. Clinger. From approximately 1942 to 1956. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1942 to 1956. What type of work \yas this 
that you were engaged in for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 
what type of work was it that you were doing? 

Mrs. Clinger. Undercover work in the Communist Party. 

;Mr. Tavenner. In the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Have you testified on any other occasion as a wit- 
ness for the United States Government ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that occasion ? 

Mrs. Clinger. In 1957 before the Subversive Activities Control 

Board. . „ • o ^ktu 4. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the subject of your testimony? What 
matter was it that you appeared in as a witness? _ _ 

Mrs. Clinger. Covering the Commmiist activities pertaining to the 
California Defense Committee that was set up. 

Mr. Tavenner. California Emergency Defense Committee? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is this committee still in existence? 

I^Irs. Clinger. To my knowledge ; no. . . 

Mr. TxVvenner. What was the purpose of that committee to begin 

with? 

Mrs. Clinger. To raise money for the people here in Calif ornia that 
wer^-to raise money for the so-called Smith Act defendants in Cali- 
fornia, the Smith Act defendants. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which you first became associated with the Communist 
Party in your work for the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1135 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, in 1941 I became very interested politically in 
groups, through friends of mine, and attended all types of political 
meetings ; and I noticed there seemed to be a great deal of dissension, 
and questioned my friends about this, and they said, oh, we know that 
there are Communists in our group, and they cause all this dissension, 
but we can't do anything about it. We can't prove anything. 

Well, this made rather an impression on me. I wondered why noth- 
ing could be done, why didn't they do something. And the more I 
thought about this, I felt that maybe there was a possibility that I 
could do something in my very naive way. I went down to the Com- 
munist headquarters in Los Angeles by myself, and there was a woman 
in the office, and I told her that I was interested in the Communist 
Party and would like to know more about it. And she immediately 
took my name and address and said that she was there alone, was 
quite busy, but someone would contact me. 

A few weeks later someone did contact me, a woman did contact me 
and suggested that I attend what was then known as the California 
Labor School. At this point, I felt that the thing I wanted had been 
accomplished. I went to the Bureau of Investigation and told them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me a minute. Will you put that microphone 
a little closer ; I believe we will pick up your voice better. 

Mrs. Clinger. And told them how far I had gone, and immediately 
there was interest shown, and I was asked to continue. And I didn't 
want to join the party to a degree, but at that time, in fact, I was 
afraid to. I mean, I didn't know what I was really getting into. But 
the men in the Federal Bureau of Investigation asked me if I would 
continue to work as far as I could go, and this was the beginning of a 
14-year siege that was, I would say 

Mr. Jackson. This was in 1942 ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes ; the first part of 1942, as I remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you continued in the Communist Party until 
1956? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliy did you get out of the Communist Party in 
1956? 

Mrs. Clinger, Actually it was because I had had so many years, I 
felt that I had done all that I could do physically. I mean, my health 
wasn't too good at this point. I also had a little girl and I wanted to 
be able to devote more time to her, which I hadn't been able to do up to 
this point. In other words, I mean, I had had it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You had had it ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. During this period of about 15 years, did you make 
reports to the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. How frequently did, you make reports ? 

Mrs. Clinger. At least once a week. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over that entire period ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you attend the California Labor 
School? 

Mrs. Clinger. As I remember, about 6, 8 weeks. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course that school is no longer in existence. 



1136 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mrs. Clinger. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period that you attended it, what was 
the Communist Party connection with it, if any, as far as you were 
able to observe ? 

Mrs. Clinger. "Well, at that time you must realize that I was quite 
naive as to what the Communist policy was. Certain leaflets and 
booklets did have the Communist Party name in as publisher, and the 
very fact that I was finally urged by my teacher to make a decision 
to join the party was some proof. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Who was that person ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Eva Shafran. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Eva Shafran ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What positions in the Communist Party have you 
held since you became a member? 

Mrs. Clinger. Those on club level, I mean P.W. director. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat do you mean by P.W. director ? 

Mrs. Clinger. People's World, which is a local paper here on the 
West Coast — educational director, membership and dues, which is 
combined in one operation, and labor director. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Well, during the period that you held these various 
positions on the local level, what opportunity did you have to meet 
with persons from other groups of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, there would be, for instance, a literature meet- 
mg, and all the literature directors from all the clubs in the area 
would meet, and we would discuss problems. And this was true with 
every office ; I mean they would meet on sometimes section level, every- 
one in the section ; this would happen occasionally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whei*e did you reside at the time that you first 
became a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. In West Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the first group of the Communist Party 
to which you were assigned ? 

Mrs. Clinger. I don't remember the name, it was a neighborhood — 
well, when we say a neighborhood group, I mean, there are people 
from all different walks of life, but the name of the club I don't 
remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of that first 
club to which you were assigned? 

Mrs. Clinger. 2, 3, 4 months ; it was for a short period of time. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. What was the next group of the Communist Party 
to whicliyou were assigned ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, could I elaborate a little why there was an- 
other group? 

Mr. Tavenner. Surely. 

Mrs. Clinger. In this first group there were some people who did 
work in defense plants; and the chairman of this group, by the way, 
was Mary Gordon, and she made the remark that they were setting 
up particularly aircraft units of people that worked in aircraft or, in 
other words, industrial units at this time ; and there w^ere some people 
in our group at that time, and they were being moved to either air- 
craft or shipyard units, whichever they happened to be, the kind of 
work they were doing. This interested me, and I reported this in one 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1137 

of my reports to the F.B.I., and it was decided that it would be wise 
for me to go into an aircraft plant, which I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What aircraft plant was that? 

Mrs. Clinger. Douglas Aircraft Company in Santa Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is when you began your employment? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You began your employment there ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, in 1942, that was in 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, you indicated you wanted to ad- 
journ at a quarter of 12 :00. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. Wliat time do you wish to come back, 1 :30 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all right. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess until 1 :30. 

(Thereupon, at 11 :45 a.m., Tuesday, October 20, 1959, the sub- 
committee recessed to reconvene at 1 :30 p.m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 20, 1959 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Mrs. Clinger, will you come forward, please? 

TESTIMONY OF MOISELLE (J.) CLINGEIU-Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Clinger, at the noon recess we were beginning 
to discuss your employment at the Douglas Aircraft plant. I under- 
stood you to say that members of your neighborhood gi'oup of the 
Communist Party were getting out into industry at that time. 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the Federal Bureau of Investigation sug- 
gested that you get into the airplane industry ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. After you got into the airplane industry at Doug- 
las Aircraft, did you find any organized groups of the Communist 
Party within the employees of that plant ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us just what you know about that. 

Mrs. Clinger. I was transferred into the Douglas Aircraft unit of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question at this point? How did you 
determine, first of all, that there was such a unit at the Douglas Air- 
craft Co.? 

Mrs. Clinger. From the first group that I was in. 

Mr. Jackson. You were notified by the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. That such a group did exist at the Douglas Aircraft 
Company ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. And you were instructed to affiliate with that branch ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just tell us briefly your experience within the Com- 
munist Party while employed at the Douglas Aircraft plant. 

Mrs. Clinger. At this period of time the two unions, the lAM 
[International Association of Machinists] and the CIO were attempt- 



1138 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

ing to organize iii Douglas Aircraft. The members of the Communist 
group were backing the CIO ; this was the full purpose at the time of 
this unit, to get the vote of the people in the plant for the CIO, and 
the whole time was spent on this organization of the people within 
the plant. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Well, what was the result of that fight for the 
membership ? 

Mrs. Clinger. The lAM won out, and this was a great disappoint- 
ment to our unit. However, there was an attempt made, and not only 
an attempt — many of us went in and joined the I AM, but were not 
able to make any headway whatsoever in the organization. And 
right after this period, it w^as decided that the aircraft units, as a 
whole, would be disbanded and the people would go into 

Mr. Tavenxer. Just a moment, by aircraft unit, you mean units of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Clinger. Would go into local clubs wherever the people may 
live. 

]\lr. Tavenner. What security provisions did Douglas Aircraft 
plant have at that time, and what effect did it have upon the activity 
of the Communist Party within the plant ? 

Mrs. Clinger. This was a problem to the Communists in the plant. 
I mean, you had to be very careful, and because the men responsible 
for the security of Douglas Aircraft Company were quite aware of 
the problem of infiltration — and they were men that were highly 
trained in security — and eventually, I mean, it made it almost impos- 
sible to do any kind of work in the plant. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. By work what do you mean ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Even discussing anything political, shall we say, in 
any controversial 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Well, when you were talking about work, were you 
referring to Communist Party work ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, I interrupted you, you were say- 
ing it was very difficult because of the tight security. 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. To carry on the work of the Communist Party in 
the Douglas Aircraft plant. 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. So, from your observation the security officers were 
doing a good job? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. The thing is that they were aware ; 
and this is a very important thing, just to be aware. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. From time to time legislation has been offered 
in Congress endeavoring to tighten up the laws of subversion with 
relation to persons employed in defense projects. 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner, Do you consider that an important thing for the 
defense of thi s country ? 

Mrs. Clinger. A very important thing. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1139 

Mr. Tavenner. And you know, from your own experience, at the 
Douglas Aircraft plant that it was an effective job that the security 
officers were doing ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Very effective. 

Mr. Jackson. Was there any discussion in your branch meetings 
away from the plant itself as to the necessity for maintaining secrecy 
so far as your individual memberships in the Communist Party were 
concerned ? 

Mrs. Clinger. This is a foregone conclusion. 

Mr. Jackson. No discussion was necessary ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. 

Mr. Jackson. In your opinion ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. A person in defense work belonging to the 
Communist Party actually is given the protection by the party to 
be sure that their identity does not become known. 

Mr. Jackson. You have said that you believe the security people 
did a good job — I am inclined to agree with you — but how, m your 
opinion, was it possible for a group of Coimnunists to obtain employ- 
ment in the plant in the first instance? 

Mrs. Clinger. You must remember that in the period of time — • 
I have no way of knowing whether these people were Communists 
when they went into the plant, this I do not know — but you must 
remember that during the time the Soviet Union and the United States 
were allies, there was a great feeling of cooperation, I mean, at 
that particular time. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; but notwithstanding that, known Communists 
could not have gained employment. 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, no, no. I am sure of this. 

Mr. Jackson. So, the Communists were successful, in spite of this 
spirit of cooperation which existed at that time, in secretly obtaining 
employment ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. In the plants, and, on many occasions, at the direction 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. Again at this particular time there 
were not the laws, too, and people were not as aware of this problem 
of infiltration, what it would really mean. 

Mr. Jackson. You say people were not aware of this ; the security 
agencies were aware of it. 

You mean people generally ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Generally, yes. 

Mr. Jackson. The American public ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is right. 

]Mr. Jackson. As distinguished from the Federal security agencies ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course, it is true that in the earlier period you 
were speaking of, the public was not generally aware of the dangers 
of Communist infiltration ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. Wliat year are we speaking about, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. She began her employment there I believe in 1943. 

Mrs. Clinger. 1942. 



1140 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Tav^nner. 1942, and it extended for a period of 11 years. 

Mr. Jackson. I am trying to keep up chronologically so we will 
know what year we are talking about. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Now, how many different mi its of the Communist 
Party were you acquainted with during the period of your employ- 
ment at Douglas ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Do you mean aircraft units ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I mean, was there more than one, or how 
many were there ? 

]\lrs. Clinger. Well, there was one for the day shift, and one for 
the swing shift, and one for the graveyard shift; I mean, all these 
shifts were working, and there were people represented on all shifts. 

Mr. Tavenner. You left employment there about what year? 

Mrs. Clinger. I don't know, sometime between 1945, 1946, for a 
short time. I did leave Douglas. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then went back later ? 

Mrs. Clinger. And went back later, yes. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Was there any significance to your leaving for short 
periods of time? Why did you leave, if there is any significance to it? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, at this particular time, a great many of the 
Communists in the plant had left the plant, and there was some devel- 
opment that took place, there was a book shop opened in Santa 
Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. By book shop do you mean Communist Party 
bookshop ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, and a book store and art gallery combined. 
And I worked in this book shop for a period of time. 

I volunteered my services, and they were gladly accepted because 
there was just one person, and the hours were very long, and there 
was just one person operating this bookshop at the time, Mary 
Gordon. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then after several years you went back to the 
Douglas Aircraft plant ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, a couple of years. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you happen to go back to the Douglas 
Aircrafti^lant? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, I just wanted to go back to work, I mean, at 
tliis time. 

Mr. Jackson. Pardon me, Counsel. Did you receive any remunera- 
tion for your work in the bookshop ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, no, I volunteered my services there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the Communist Party's attitude 
toward your returning to work at the Douglas Aircraft plant? 

Mrs. Clinger. By attitude? 

Mr. Taa'enner. I mean, what did the members of the Communist 
Party say to you with regard to your being employed and continuing 
with your employment ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Those that loiew were very happy that I was there ; 
however, there were many people in different clubs that I belonged 
to at various times who were not aware that I was at Douglas. It 
was generally felt that it just wasn't the business of the rank and file. 
But there were certain people in the party that knew where I worked. 
You just don't ask people where they work. There was times, because 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1141 

I wasn't quite as active in the party work, that some people ques- 
tioned this. I mean, on petitions, picket lines, ringing doorbells, and 
so fortli. There was questions, why was I not required to do this. 
I knoAv it became an issue one time, almost an issue, a couple of people, 
Elaine and Gil Drummond 

Mr. Tavenner. Wait a minute. Wliat is that name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Elaine and Gil Drummond. 

Mr. Tavenner Elaine and Gil Drummond ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavener. D-r-u-m-m-o-n-d? 

Mrs. Clinger. I believe so. 

They seemed to resent the fact that I was not as active in party 
work. This was taken up with the then section organizer, I believe, 
at the time, anyway, it was Merle Brodsky, who immediately felt and 
said that I — the fact that I was at Douglas Aircraft, and certainly my 
security must be maintained. And I told him that I was a little un- 
hajDpy with the whole situation and that I wasn't really being active ; 
there was not really any work being done on it in our clubs in the Bay 
area, as far as labor movement was concerned I felt isolated being at 
Douglas. 

Maybe the best thing for me would be to quit my job at Douglas 
and go some place else and do something where I could be more active. 

He immediately said, no, that I should not do this, that I must stay 
on the job at Douglas because I might be of value. 

Mr. Tavenner. That you might be of value later ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he say in what way you might be of value 
later? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you have any discussion with him at any 
later period regarding your activities at the Douglas Aircraft plant ? 

Mrs. Clinger, Yes, at 2 or 3 different times, he and I discussed 
my job at Douglas. He wanted to know exactly what type of job 
1 had at Douglas, and I told him in the library. And he wanted me 
to explain the functions of the library, which I did, and what was 
there, the matter of classified material, the classified material with 
films, highly classified reports, and blueprints. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, who was that who was interested in having 
that information ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Merle Brodsky. 

Mr. Tavenner. "What was his position in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Organizer at the section, I believe at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, didn't that indicate to you that the reason 
why he wanted you to keep your position in the Douglas Aircraft 
plant so that you could be of future value to the party had something 
to do with information that you could obtain ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you asked at any time for specific informa- 
tion regarding classified information while employed at Douglas ? 

Mrs. Clinger. The only thing — Merle did ask me to list any names 
of engineers or technicians that I might consider being liberal. 

Mr. Tavenner. "What was the reason for that, why did he want 
that information, do you know ? 



1142 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mrs. Clixger. I can only assume for future contact work — this is 
the usual thing. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Yes. Now, you mentioned a Merle Brodsky as an 
organizer of the Communist Party. You also mentioned the names 
of two other persons, Elaine Drummond, and I believe you said Gil- 
bert Drummond ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, or Gil Drummond. 

Mr. TA\T;N]srER. And that they were the ones who had complained 
to the organizer that you weren't doing your share of the chores, you 
might say, of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know those two persons, Elaine Drum- 
mond and Gilbert Drummond, to be members of the party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Up to what x)eriocl of time did you know them to 
be members ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, until 1956 when I 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. They were still members when you got out ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you meet with these people in closed party meet- 
ings? 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, yes, they were both in my club, I mean, at one 
time. 

Mr. Moulder. How many members were in your club ? 

Mrs. Clinger. At what period of time, I mean, this varied ? 

Mr. Moulder. The period referred to. 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, at this particular time, maybe ten. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you said that there were three organized 
groups of the Communist Party within the employees of Douglas 
Aircraft plant that you were acquainted with ; who were the leaders 
among those groups, if you ran recall ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Celia Wilby, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell Wilby? 

Mrs. Clinger. W-i-1-b-y, if I remember it, and Jean Rubin. I 
believe at a later period Jean Rubin Sproul is her complete name, and 
Hart Mitchell — Hart, H-a-r-t, Mitchell; Elaine Titleman; Pauline 
Gilbert; and that right for the moment 

Mr. jNIoulder. Can she give additional identification? 

Mr. Tavenner. She said that is all she could recall for the moment. 

Mr. Jackson. I assume these were the people in positions of 
leadership ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. On one or two of these shifts, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know if any of these subsequently left the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, I don't. 

Mr. Moulder. The reason I asked the question I did^ — if you can 
identify them more particularly — is so that they won't be confused 
with other people w^lio might have the same names. 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, I am sorry, I mean 

Mr. Jackson. They were all employed at Douglas ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. During a specific period of time? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1143 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other assignments in the Communist Party 
did you have besides your work in the Douglas Aircraft plant ? You 
have mentioned the bookstore as one. Did you have any other assign- 
ments at any time? 

JMrs. Clinger. Well, over a period of time there were other things. 
Everyone was expected to work in some type of a mass organization ; 
and since I was a registered Democrat, I was asked to become active 
in the local Democratic Party, or at least attend any meetings that 
they may have. And, I also belonged to the I.A.M. 

Mr. Moulder. What did you say ? 

Mrs. Clinger. International Association of Machinists, the A. F. 
of L. And I did attend these meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, let us go back to the book store. Where was 
this book store located in which you worked for about two years ? 

Mrs. Clinger. On Fifth Street in Santa Monica. I don't remember 
just the exact address. 

Mr. Moulder. May I clarify her statement a moment ago — when 
you were given those directions, what year was that when you had 
instructions to be active in certain organizations and political parties ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, I took this over a period of years, not neces- 
sarily — I know this was over a period of years. I mean, this was not 
at this particular time that we are still talking about 1942 and 1943, 
in later period these instructions were given on the mass organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was asking you about the bookstore, and you told 
us where it was located. Now, will you describe the activities of the 
bookstore, what it did, and how the business of the bookstore was 
handled ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, this was called the Thomas Jefferson Book- 
sho]5. It was a regular bookstore. We also had an art gallery there. 
And the main thing was that this period, it was the focal point for 
the distribution of literature for the whole Bay area. In other words, 
all literature was left at this book shop and was picked up by the 
literature directors of the various Commimist clubs in the Bay area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this literature picked up openly out in the 
store, or was it something that was concealed ? 

Mrs. Clinger. The things that were to be given to the various clubs 
was kept in the back. 

Mr. Moulder. How many clubs were in the Bay area ? 

Mrs. Clinger. At that particular time ? 

Mr. Moulder. Wliat particular time are you referring to ? 

Mrs. Clinger. From 1944 through approximately 1946, something 
like that. 

Mr. Moulder. How many clubs ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, of course, this fluctuated. There was one pe- 
riod of time there were five or six, and then again, it was a matter of 
fluctuation, because there is always a continual change. 

Mr. Moulder. How many people, would you say, were members of 
each club ? 

Mrs. Clinger. At one period in that time there was as many as 
twenty, twenty-five. At another time it would be maybe only ten. 
As I say, this fluctuated for various reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean about that number in one club, or in 
all the clubs togrether ? 



1144 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mrs. Clinger. No, I mean in each club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion while employed there to meet 
representatives from the different clubs who had control of, and were 
in charge of, the literature for the particular clubs ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, at different times. I was not always there. I 
usually went in the afternoons and closed the place 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you stated that Mary Gordon was the one 
who operated the bookstore ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Noav, what was the period of time in which you say 
you were assigned to work in the Democratic Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. This was at a later period, much later, actually, 
1950, I mean, 1952. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever instructed to work in the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. In the club most people did. There was the matter 
of petitions which had to be signed and turned in to get the I.P.P. 
on the ballot. Here again because of security, I did not. Many 
people — not everyone in the party changed their registration to I.P.P. 
A lot of them did, and were asked to. I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in any way in the raising of 
money for the Communist Party? Or, let me put the question this 
way, how did the Communist Party finance its various operations? 
Where did it get the money from ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, of course, there was the dues, there was the 
sustainers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat do you mean by sustainers? 

Mrs. Clinger. People who you knew were not members of the 
Communist Part}^, but people who you would consider sympathetic to 
any cause, I mean, it didn t make much difference what it was. But 
you knew that you could get so much money from them every month. 
This is a part of the responsibility of being a Communist, being able 
to have people that you can depend on to get money from them. This 
is a rank-and-file type of thing. Now, I think the Thomas Jefferson 
Bookshop was a very good example of how to raise money. I mean, 
this bookshop had to be supported, there was rent to be paid there, 
and it was a good reason to raise money, I think, which is important, 
not that it took all the money that was raised to support this bookshop, 
but it was a reason to get out and have parties and so forth to bring 
mone}^ to support this bookshop supposedly. Certainly all the money 
that was raised certainly was not used by this bookshop. And there 
were many parties given, and very successful parties given, and a 
great deal of money was raised at various times. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat do you mean by successful parties? 

Mrs. Clinger. I mean where even as high as $400 or $500 was raised 
at one party, one that I remember very distinctly. 

Mr. Ta\tdnner. Well, I would like you to give the committee illus- 
trations of the raising of substantial funds by party meetings, by 
meetings, but I want you to confine yourself to meetings that you 
know were organized by Communists or Communist Party members. 

Mrs. Clinger. It was decided that the bookshop was not getting 
funds in fast enough, and we should have some real big publicity, a 
party with big names attached and that would draw people to this 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1145 

gathering, willing to spend money. Mary and I discussed this in the 
bookshop and then at a closed meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. A meeting of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. Of this Communist group — yes, Party — in Santa 
Monica held at the home of Ben Olson, and we were trying to make 
plans for a party. There had been a suggestion of two or three places 
that we could hold this party. One of the people there, Lawrence 
Lipton, offered his home for this party, and arrangements were made 
from then on, and we did have a party there, and quite a successful 
one. And here again the name at that time of Lawrence Lipton would 
not have been a drawing card, not at that period. He was compara- 
tively an miknown. But at that time he was married to Craig Kice, 
and so when the invitations went out they were put out in the name 
of Craig Kice, who I am sure didn't really — the party was there and 
she was there, but she certainly had no knowledge that, in other words, 
that she was being used, and her name was being used. 

Mr. Tavenner. She was not a member of the Communist Party, as 
far as you knew ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, and not very politically minded at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you said that this closed Communist Party 
meeting at which this plan was made was at a person's home by the 
name of Olson ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think I should state that this per- 
son, Ben Olson, some years ago appeared as a witness before this 
committee and refused to answer any material questions regarding his 
Communist Party activities, using the fifth amendment as his reason 
for refusing to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you say the party was actually held, and that 
it was successful ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, it was held, and financially it was very success- 
ful. 

Mr. Jackson. What happened to the money that was raised at this 
party, did it all go to the bookstore, or for whatever purpose it was 
purported to be held ? 

Mrs. Clinger. This I do not know. There were times that I did 
take money to the bank, and it was put in an account, but the real 
financial structure, I do not know. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were not connected with the financial end of 
this? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. Mary Gordon was the one that took care of 
this. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, can you give us other illustrations? 

Mrs. Clinger. There were a great many fund-raising parties held 
at the home of Silvia Kichards. At that time she lived clown on the 
oceanfront, had quite a large home, and, therefore, was able to give 
these parties at different times where money was raised one way or 
another, raffles, and so forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I might state for the record, Mr. Chairman, that 
Silvia Richards appeared before this committee some years ago and 
testified fully and completely regarding her former membership in 
the Communist Party, the fact that she had left it, and the reasons 
for leaving the Communist Party. 



1146 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

All right, proceed. 

]\Irs. Clixger. And another — this is in another period — I remem- 
ber one time, this was during the aircraft miit period, Celia Wilby told 
me that some of the Hollywood and West Los Angeles clubs were 
giving a party and that they were asking all the aircraft units to assist 
in this. And she asked me if I could go to a meeting to find out 
exactly what was going on and also, she understood there would be 
tickets there, if I would pick them up and bring them back. She told 
me where the meeting was to be held. It was at the home of Les 
Rivers ; and when I got there, he was quite surprised, apparently the 
meeting had been called off, and I had not been notified. But never- 
theless, he gave me the tickets to take back. They were to be sold for 
this party. The party was to be given, and it was finally given at the 
home of Budd Schulberg at that time. 

Mr. Tavennee, For the record, Mr, Chairman, Budd Schulberg 
appeared before this committee in Washington, I think early in 1951, 
and told the committee fully tlie pressure that had been brought to 
bear upon him as a member, former member of the Communist Party, 
to write in certain lines that the Communist Party was interested in ; 
and upon his refusal to do it, he left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. You say you reported to the F.B.I, once each week? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. That is, at least once each week ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder, What did you report ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Anj^ meetings that I had attended, who was there, 
any plans that were made for future meetings, and anything that 
took place. 

Mr. ]\Ioulder. Did you make a record of your reports, or did you 
do this orally without a record ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, they were written reports. 

Mr. Moulder. You have notes with you now, I believe? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, I do have notes. These are just notes to refresh 
my memory. I mean, 14 or 15 years, that is a little difficult. I have 
just a few notes here ; is this all right ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr, Tavenner. What was the practice of the Communist Party 
during the period of your membership with regard to assigning 
people to work in mass organizations? 

Mrs. Clinger. Almost everyone was assigned to some type of a mass 
organization. Now, there m.a,j have been something that they were 
interested in. I mean, they were all in some group that they may 
have belonged to, but if you didn't belong, you were told where or 
what to join. I remember the churches. There was one period 
where they felt it was quite necessary that different people join 
different churches, and for 

Mr. TAi^ENNER. Let me ask you, in telling about these assignments 
to various mass organizations, I would like you to designate who they 
were, if you can recall. 

Mr. Moulder. You mean who gave the assignments ? 

Mr. Tavenner. ^Yho were given particular assignments. 

Mr. Moulder. Who was giving her directions ? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1147 

Mr. Tavenner. No, who it was that was directed to work within 
a certain group. She has told what she was directed to do. Now, 
if you can recall, I would like to know what other people were directed 
to do, as far as you know. 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, Gil Drummond I know was working in a 
minority group. Harper Poulson was working with a minority 
group, was considered a minority group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you there. When you are iden- 
tifying these persons who were assigned to work in particular groups, 
did you know those persons to be members of the Communisi: Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the basis of your knowledge that they 
were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Because they appeared in closed meetings. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. With you ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, you have named a person by the 
name of Poulson, what is the first name? 

Mrs. Clinger. Harper. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Harper Poulson ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was his assignment? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, at one time he was very interested in, and was 
working at, the NAACP ; and although at that time he did not belong 
to the club that I belonged to, he did come into the club, making 
suggestions as to the work of the Communist Party in the Santa 
Monica area concerning the NAACP. There were several people who 
did go and join NAACP, and, actually, it developed into a demand by 
the NAACP on Sears in Santa Monica to hire Negro people. There 
were picket lines, and this was due to the fact that Harper Poulson 
and Gil Drummond and there was 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. O. E. Burrell. And several who had joined the 
NAACP in hopes of bringing about, in the hope of gaining control, 
actually, of the local NAACP — and I might say that there was a large 
picket line, and this was almost completely manned by members of 
the Communist Party. Fortunately, there was a strong enough move- 
ment in the NAACP who finally was able to hold their ground, and 
eventually forced the Communist group out of their organization. It 
was a battle, but the Communists were not successful in that local, 
although it looked like they were going to be for a while, but the 
strength of the people in the organization finally forced them out. 

Mr. Moulder. WTiere was this? 

Mrs. Clinger. In Santa Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Now, if you will recall other assign- 
ments, you spoke of assignments in church work. Do you know of any- 
one who received such an assignment who was known to you per- 
sonally to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. The same O. E. Burrell, I know, did quite a 
bit. I know that he belonged to the church in Santa Monica, and 
to me this was kind of an odd thing, and to many of the old-timers 
in the Conununist Party it was kind of earth shaking to have to go 
into a church. I mean, to become a member of a church. I noticed 



1148 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

it Avas mostly the younger— I wouldn't say younger, I mean the 
newer — membei*s that they were able to do this with. I noticed it was 
not the older members, long-standing members who were too interested 
in taking on this task of going into the churches to work. 

I know my husband was asked to join a church, and I frowned on 
this, so that he was not pushed to go ahead with this. 

Mr. Moulder. You are referring to "they," and people giving di- 
rections and instructions, but you haven't told us who they were. Let 
us be specific. 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, at times whoever happened to be a chairman 
of a group. 

Mr. Moulder. Who were they? 

Mrs. Clinger. Elaine Drummond at one time was a chairman of 
a group. Elizabeth Fletcher, at one time, and also she later became, 
over the period of years, an official in the division. And certainly. 
Merle Brodsky at the time. 

Mr. Moulder. Who? 

Mrs. Clinger. Merle Brodsky at the time. These people would 
appear on different occasions — if at the time they were not the chair- 
man, they were either section officials, and so forth — and if there was 
a slight change in policy or if anything new was coming up, these 
people would appear in clubs and make these statements or requests. 

There are many of them. Theie is Seymour Brodsky. And at 
one time — a period in 1944, 1945 — it was Bill Young, who was quite 
prominent in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. You say you left the Communist Party in 1956 ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. Who was the chairman or the leader of your group 
then? 

Mrs. Clinger. At that particular time Elaine Drummond, I believe. 

Mr. Moulder. Wlio? 

Mrs. Clinger. Elaine Drummond, because she was the one that I 
talked to when I left the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said Bill Young was prominent in the Com- 
munist Party. Can you identify him with greater particularity ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Bill Young was a carpenter. He was also secretary 
of the Central Labor Council in Santa Monica in about 19 — I don't 
know, 1944, something like that — and he also ran, of course, for some 
kind of a city something, I don't remember what it was, at one time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you say that at the time that you left the 
party in 1956 you were a member of the group at Santa Monica ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you been a member of that particu- 
lar group of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, about two or three years. There had been many 
changes of clubs. I mean, fi'om 1945 to 1956, there were many changes 
in clubs ; this last one, I would say two or three years. 

Mr. Tavenner. You witnessed the activities of the Communist 
Party on up through the period of the Korean War ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the principal objective of the Commu- 
nist Party here in Los Angeles, would you say, in the latter days of 
your membership, 1955 and 1956, do you recall that? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1149 

Mrs. Clinger. I will make it very short, pro-Soviet and anti- 
American. 

Mr. Tavennkk. ITow many persons were members of your jjroup 
at that time ? 

INIrs. Clinger. In my particular club ? 

Mr, Ta^tsnner. Yes. 

Mrs. Clinger. This had gotten down to about maybe eight people, 
seven or eight people. This was done for security reasons; this was 
the reason for keeping the clubs very small. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you give us the names of those you can recall 
who were members of that group of the Communist Party, your last 
group ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Of the last group, of course, I was aware that there 
were people that had been in my group that had gone into another 
club, and so forth. In the last group, Elaine Drummond, Gil Drum- 
mond, Terry Goldberg. There was Terry's husband, who at times 
attended our meetings. Now, this was Murray Goldberg. He be- 
longed to a professional group someplace else — known as a profes- 
sional group — but at times he did come into our group too, particu- 
larly if there was any extra activity or to direct us in anything where 
his help was needed, for instance, leaflet writing, which he was very 
good at. At times we did meet in his home, and he was usually 
there when we met in his home.. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Now, you spoke of preparing leaflets. Did the 
Commimist Party have access to printing equipment? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. At one time Elaine Drummond made the an- 
nouncement that the county — meaning the county headquarters of 
the Communist Party — had furnished a mimeograph machine for our 
area; that this machine would be kept in one place, or it would be 
necessary to be moved. This was what we used for duplication pur- 
poses. And they were very quiet, I mean, you didn't discuss, in 
fact, you were not supposed to discuss, where this duplication was 
being done, and so forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. And that is because it was in violation of 
Federal law for the Communist Party to be in possession of such a 
duplicating machine without having it registered. 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, there were two places that I know of. I know, 
it was moved one time ; one time it was kept in the home of Harper 
Poulson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where it is now ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, I don't. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you know where it was in 1956 when you left 
the party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No, not right at that time. It was also, at one time, 
kept in Kosalind Lindesmith's home. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. "\Miat is that name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Eosalind Lindesmith's home. 

And those are the two places that I saw the machine ; I had occasion 
to. 

Mr. Jackson. Was Mrs. Lindesmith known to you to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, she was in this later group. 



1150 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Goldberg wlio belonged to the professional 
group, what was his profession ? 

ISIrs. Clinger. A dentist. 

Mr. Jackson. A dentist ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I interrupted you in your statement of iden- 
tification of persons who were members of the Communist Party to 
your personal knowledge, when you left it in 1956. 

Mrs. Clinger. I don't know who I talked about. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned Gilbert Drummond, Elaine 
Drmnmond, Terry Goldberg. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you have a list of the names ? 

Mrs. Clinger. These are some others. No, not in this period, I 
don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Elizabeth Fletcher a member of the group ? 

Mrs. Clinger. She had moved. She had been earlier, just a very 
short time before that, yes; but it was my understanding that she had 
moved from Santa Monica right at the time I left. These were not 
members of my club at the time that I left, but were still menibers 
in another club. I mean, I had been associated with them previously 
and I knew that they had gone into other clubs. There were other 
people, but you are limiting me just to my club, and at that time we 
had broken down to where there were only just a few people. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Yes, I understand. 

Mrs. Clinger. To six, seven people, something like that. There 
were other people that had gone into other clubs to keep these units 
small. There was a Joe Sniderman, who was in another club. There 
was also his w^ if e, Elaine, and there was 

Mr. Jackson. Elaine Sniderman ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. Not at this late a period- 



Mr. Moulder. This committee will stand in recess for a period of 
five or ten minutes. 

If you can think of those names and write them down and submit 
them to the committee, we will appreciate that. 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

(Short recess taken . ) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. Proceed, Mr. Tav- 
enner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Clinger, I was asking you to identify the 
names of persons that you knew were members of the Communist 
Party when you left it in 1956. You gave us a number of names of 
those who were in your group, which by that time had been broken 
down to seven or eight members. Now, I would like you to identify 
other persons who were known to you to be members of the Commu- 
nist Party and, in doing so, to indicate the period of time in which 
you knew they were members, and any other identifying information 
you can give in regard to them as to their activities, keeping in mind 
that I only want the names of persons known to you personally to 
have been members of the Communist Party. I think that fully 
states the question. 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, at various times from late in 1945 — I believe 
from 1945 to 1948, approximately — there was a Susan Brown, who 
lived in Santa Monica. She was an artist. Elizabeth Fletcher, who 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1151 

I named before. At one time she headed a cooperative nursery, pre- 
school nursery in the Bay area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is this to whom you refer ? 

Mrs. Clinger, Elizabeth Fletcher. Elaine Sniderman and her 
husband, Joe Sniderman. He was a grocery man. Gertrude Avers 
and her husband, Aaron Avers. She was a housewife, and he was a 
sign painter at that time. Adaline Fogg. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Will you spell that last name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. F-o-g-g, who was an art teacher in a private school. 
I believe now she has an art school of her own in West Los Angeles. 

There was a Berkeley Tobey, who was a writer and a representative 
for some publisher, I don't know who. 

There was Lennie 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell Tobey ? 

Mrs. Clinger. T-o-b-e-y. And a Lennie Ludel. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell that last name ? 

Mrs. Clinger. L-u-d-e-1. He was a diamond cutter at that time. 
Charles Cormack, I believe, C-o-r-m-a-c-k, and his wife Teresa. He 
was a student part of the time that I knew him, and then later he 
was a reader for some studio. 

And there was a Ron Scharf, who w^as a student, and his wife, who 
was a social service worker in Los Angeles some place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you there. How did you know 
these persons to be members of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Clinger. Because they were members of the same clubs. Now, 
this covers a period of time of different reorganization and different 
clubs. And all these people I sat in closed meetings with. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat do you mean by closed meetings ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Meetings where only members of the Communist 
Party were present. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mrs. Clinger. There was a Noah and Henrietta Bowers, who owned 
a pet shop in Santa Monica at one time. 

I have already testified to Ben Olson and his wife Dorothy Olson, 
and Silvia Richards. At a later period there is Bill McLaughlin. 
He was a chairman at one time of a group that I was in, and his 
wife Goldie, He was in the building trades, I believe. 

There was a Charles Ellis, and his wife Shirley. Joe Sniderman 
and his wife Elaine. There was a Bob Blumenkranz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that name, please ? 

Mrs. Clinger. B-1-u-m-e-n-k-r-a-n-z. I knew him as Bob Bliunen- 
kranz. I believe also, I know I heard his wife and other people say 
Walter, and his wife Harriet. 

Mr. Jackson. Wliat was his occupation ? 

Mrs. Clinger. He was in the building trades at that time, I am 
sure, because I happen to know of one job he was doing. 

Jim McGowan and his wife Lucille. Jim worked for a concern 
that made bricks and tile. 

Marlowe Booth. He was a sheetmetal man, I believe. 

Also Sol Rosenberg, who was not a member of any club that I 
belonged to, but who did come in an official capacity some way from 
the section. He attended two or three meetings that I attended, closed 
meetings. He was the husband of Rose Rosenberg, the attorney. 



1152 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr, Moulder. Any other questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I am not sure whether she has completed her answer 
or not. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson, Regarding the party that was given to raise the funds, 
you mentioned a Mr. Lipton. Was he a member of the Communist 
Party at the time you left the party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. This I do not know. 

Mr. Jackson, What was his occupation ? Did ho have an occupa- 
tion? 

Mrs. Clinger, He was a writer. 

Mr. Jackson. A writer ? 

Mrs, Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson, Do you know what he is doing presently ? 

Mrs, Clinger. A writer. And as a profession I would say he is 
still a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a person by the name of Adele Allen ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. She was also a member of one of the clubs that 
I belonged to, and her husband also, Van Allen. I think his name was 
Booker Van Allen, but he was known better as just plain Van Allen. 
And, a Mike Kessler, 

Mr, Tavenner, Now, going back to the Aliens, do you know whether 
one of them occupied any position or office in tlie Communist Party '^ 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. Adele did. I am trying to think exactly 
what, but she was at a section level one time. 

Mr. Tavenner. At what period of time was it that you knew her 
to be a member of the Communist Party, as nearly as you can tell us ? 

Mrs. Clinger. 1950, 1951, on to the time I left, 1956. 

Mr. Tavenner. You then gave us another name that I didn't under- 
stand. 

Mrs. Clinger. Mike Kessler. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mike Kessler ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. K-e-s-s-1-e-r ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a person by the name of Jack Bur- 
stein ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Oh, yes. He was also in one of the clubs that I be- 
longed to at various times. And there was also a Lona Wells, who 
was very active in various clubs that I was in, and she, too, finally 
became active up, at least, into the section area. 

Mr. TA^^l;NNER. Were you acquainted with Jerry Tannenbaum? 

]\Irs. Clinger. Yes, I knew him. He was not in any of the clubs 
tliat I belonged to, but he did come into closed meetings at various 
times as a section official. 

Mr, Moulder. Would you give us a brief description of what you 
mean by section ? 

Mrs. Clinger. At that time there was a club basis, and then section ; 
there were some people, certain people wlio were responsible for all 
of these clubs. There were so many clubs in a section, and tliere were 
certain people wlio were responsible for certain duties covering the 
activity of the combined clubs. These were section officials. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1153 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other names that occur to you at the 
present time who were members at the time you left the Communist 
Party in 1956? 

Mrs. Clinger. Not at the moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. If later the names of others occur to you, will you 
advise Mr. Wlieeler, the investigator for the committee ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee now the circumstances 
under which you left the Communist Party, what occurred ? 

Mrs. Clinger. I made the decision to withdraw from the work as 
an undercover agent for the F.B.I, due to personal reasons, namely, 
my health and family. I wanted to withdraw from the party in a 
graceful way, and the time in 1956 when I did this seemed to be very 
opportune. So, when Elaine Drummond came to my home to reregis- 
ter me, I informed her that I was not going to reregister, that I was 
leaving the Communist Party. This took her back quite a bit, and 
she thought that maybe if someone would come and talk to me that 
I might change my mind. She knew that I hadn't been well, and 
maybe I would reconsider. I told her that this was not true, that I 
was leaving. And she made the statement that, "Well, certainly any- 
one that has been as active in the party and for as many years, you 
could not besmirch the ideals of the Communist Party, surely you 
would still continue to fight for the things that the Communist Party 
believes in and support them financially, if not physically, at this 
time." 

I told her that I was not going to support anytliing. And she said 
that she felt that perhaps the best thing, if I took a rest, maybe I 
would reconsider my decision. And I assured her I would not. And 
so, this is the way I left the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, it appears then that although you were sev- 
ering your connection as a member of the Communist Party, they 
were asking you to continue in your activity in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. I mean, that I would at least support 
them financially and, possibly later when I felt better, to do other 
things. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were expected to be affiliated with the Com- 
munist Party although not actually a member in the legal sense ? 

Mrs. Clinger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, that is one problem this committee is study- 
ing. Section 5 of the Communist Control Act of 1954 enumerates 
about fourteen different matters which the courts and the juries should 
take into consideration in determining whether or not a person is a 
member of the Communist Party, It seems now that because of the 
device which has been used in your case to attempt to get you to re- 
main affiliated, although actually not a member, this has to be dealt 
with in some manner by Congress. Have you any suggestions in mind 
as to what may be of help ? 

Mr. Moulder. Can you answer the question ? 

Mrs. Clinger. No. Not at this moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, when you were talking about sup- 
porting, continuing to support, the Communist Party, although not a 
member, I assume that meant continuance of your support in various 
front organizations. What were the front organizations of the Com- 



1154 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

munist Party, at the time you withdrew, that the party was particu- 
larly interested in, or name some of the fronts during your period of 
membership from 1950 which were deemed sufficiently important to 
cause concentration of Communist activity, 

Mrs. Clinger. There are many organizations. I would not say 
they were fronts; they are certainly not fronts, but organizations that 
members of the Communist Party went into to use their influence as 
much as possible, such as even the P.T.A. I mean, these organizations 
which many of the housewives, particularly with children, were urged 
to take, even the P.T.A. and, as I mentioned before, the churches, 
youth organizations, and major political parties certainly. And, at 
the time that I left there was a great drive on going into a major 
political party to use the influence there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat about the Rosenberg Defense Committee, do 
you recall any particular activity in that gi*oup? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. That was back a period. This, of course, was 
a money — I mean, at every meeting at this period, we were asked to 
contact more people; there were petitions; and every time you got 
somebody to sign a petition to get mone;^ from them for the Rosenbergs. 
And there is something that I would like to say on the matter of pe- 
titions, if I may. 

The petitions are used in the Communist Party in any cause that 
they may have; there is always a petition. And they go out on the 
streets, any place, to get signatures, regardless of what name they may 
be using or what is on the petition. These petitions are brought back 
to the Communist Party, and the names are copied off, because it is 
felt that anybody that would sign this petition is certainly sympathetic 
to a degree. Maybe they didn't know what they were signing, but 
the party goes on the assumption that they are sympathetic. And 
these names are kept for future use for mailing out leaflets of prop- 
aganda, or the possibility of collecting money for some other cause. 
If a person signed one petition, they certainly would support some- 
thing else. And this is true with every petition, even those that were 
used on the I.P.P. So, they do have quite a long list of names that 
can be used over and over. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Independent Progressive Party one of the 
groups that was the object of infiltration by the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes. I can remember at this particular time when 
this was being set up, and certainly in our area it was the clubs who 
got the first petitions and started getting them out, and not only to the 
membership, but many of them were taken and given to other people 
to get these petitions filled. These petitions were brought back into 
the club. 

Mr. Tavenner. What about the support of the Los Angeles Com- 
mittee for Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, certainly this was supported, and a great deal 
of discussion on it. And whenever any cases came up, there were 
other clubs in other areas that — when I say other areas, I still mean 
in the Bay area — seemed to concentrate particularly on this 
organization. 

Mr. Tavenntjr. Did the Communist Party here, your groups of the 
Communist Party, engage in the Stockholm peace crusade around 
1949 and 1950? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1155 

Mrs. Clinger. Yes, There were petitions given out, for ourselves 
and then to give to other people if we could find someone that would 
take them; and, whenever you gave them to anybody, they were to 
return them to you, and you yourself would bring them back to the 
club meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the position of the Communist Party 
here on the Korean War ? 

Mrs. Clinger. Well, here again strictly pro-Soviet and anti-Ameri- 
ican, I mean, fighting the idea of sending any troops to Korea, up- 
holding the North Korean stand completely, and a great deal of criti- 
cism on our Government stand. 

Mr. Tavenner. What action was taken in this area with regard to 
midercover activities of the Communist Party after the beginning of 
the Smith Act trials? Were people assigned to the underground or 
put underground in this area after the Smith Act trials ? 

Mrs. Clinger. There was one case that I knew. It was someone 
that I knew quite well, it was Merle Brodsky who was forced to go 
underground, as we were told, leaving the community, leaving his wife 
and family. And money was taken up, and there was a great deal 
of effort, and we were told that Merle was making this sacrifice for 
the party and it was up to us to contribute to his family in this emer- 
gency, and we all did. I mean, people gave different amounts of 
money at different times, so that liis family would be taken care of, so 
that he could continue his work as an underground agent. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to thank the witness, Mrs. Clinger, for her contribution 
to these hearings. And realizing the extent of the sacrifice which at- 
taches to entry into the party under the circumstances in which you 
did, I would like to express my appreciation, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. I join with Mr. Jackson in that statement. We ap- 
preciate deeply your cooperation with the committee and also com- 
mend you for your patriotic and loyal work which you have done for 
your country. 

You are excused as a witness, and you may claim your witness fees 
from the clerk of the committee. 

Mrs. Clinger. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. William Kubin, will you come forward, please? 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give to this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Rubin. I do. 

Mr. Moulder. All right, proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM RUBIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
WILLIAM P. GRAY 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr, William Rubin ? 
Mr. Rubin. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please 
identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Gray. Yes, my name is William P. Gray, attorney in Los 
Angeles. 



1156 INVESTIGATION OF COMMTJNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when were you born, Mr. Kubin? 

Mr.KuBiN. In New York City, 1918. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Kubin. SantaMonica, 2512 Washington Avenue. 

Mr. Ta%^nner. How long have you lived in Santa Monica? 

Mr. Rubin. Approximately 4 years. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Rubin. I am a mechanical engineer and designer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat has been your formal educational training ? 

Mr. Rubin. Graduated from New York City High School, and at- 
tended Pennsylvania State University for 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat occupations have you followed prior to your 
architectural engineering, did I understand you to say ? 

Mr. Rubin. No, mechanical engineering. I have been a draftsman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any other occupation ? 

Mr. Rubin. For a very short time, watclimaker. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any other ? 

Mr. Rubin. Nothing that I can readily recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party, 
organizationally speaking ? 

Mr. Rubin. I decline to answer on the authority of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was hoping that you would answer that question 
because I was convinced from information that the committee has 
that you are not now a member of the Communist Party organization- 
ally speaking. Won't you reconsider and advise this committee 
whether or not you are at this time a dues-paying member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rubin. I have given my answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you want to stick by that ? 

Mr. Rubin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1958 were you a member of the Western Section 
of the Southern California District of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rubin. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have been studying here, Mr. Rubin, and the 
committee will continue its study of the possibility of revising the 
definition of Communist Party membership as contained in section 
4 of the Communist Control Act of 1954, possibly enlarging upon the 
fourteen items indicating Communist Party membership as outlined in 
section 5 of that act, and possibly adding to the provisions of the 
act, affiliation with the Communist Party as distinguished from mem- 
bership. 

Now, have you been approached at any time, or have you had a 
discussion at any time with Communist Party leaders of a plan by 
which you would discontinue your membership in the Communist 
Party, but you would continue your support of the Commmiist Party 
although not being an actual member ? 

Mr. Rubin. The same answer, I decline to answer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You heard the testimony of the former witness, you 
were in the room, were you not ? 

Mr. Rubin. A very little while. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1157 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you liear her describe the proposal that was 
made to her f liat although she should withdraw from the Communist 
Party as a member, she should nevertheless continue her support of it 
financially, as well as engaging in other activities. Did you hear 
that? 

Mr. KuBiN. Yes ; I heard that part. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any other instances in which that 
type of a plan has been carried out in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rubin. Again I decline to answer that question, too, on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I am a little confused here. Did you 
ask him as to his past or present membership ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I asked about his membership now, his mem- 
bership in 1958. I did not go back earlier than that. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you ever, sir, been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Rubin. The same answer. I decline to answer that question, 
too, on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you entered into any plan with the Com- 
munist Party by which you would be considered a member, although 
you were not required to attend meetings? 

Mr. Rubin. Again I decline to answer this one, too, on the same 
basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. What is the nature of your employment ? 

Mr. Rubin. I am employed by the L.A. School District. 

Mr. Jackson. As a mechanical 

Mr. Rubin. Mechanical engineer and designer. 

Mr. Jackson. How long have you held that employment ? 

Mr. Rubin. Slightly more than 6 months. 

Mr. Jackson. At any time have you been the subject of inquiry 
of this sort into any alleged activity in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rubin. By whom? 

Mr. Jackson. By anyone, by the school authorities, let's say ? 

Mr. Rubin Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Jackson. When you accepted your present employment, did 
you sign any affidavit or make any statement relative to membership 
or nonmembershi]:) in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rubin. I decline to answer this question, too, on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, if you did sign such a statement, was it a true 
statement at the time you signed it? 

Mr. Rubin. Again, same answer. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. You are excused as a witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ralph Hall. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which 
you are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Hall. I do. 



1158 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

TESTIMONY OF EALPH HALL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, BEN 

MARGOLIS 

Mr. Ta VENDER. Wliat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr, Hall. My name is Ralph Hall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please 
identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Margolis. My name is Ben Margolis, 112 West Ninth Street, 
Los Angeles. 

I wonder if you would mind waiting until they finish with the 
photographs ? 

Mr. Ta\t3xner. Yes. When and where were you born, Mr. Hall? 

iSIr. Hall. I was bom in Corpus Christ i, Tex. Do you want the 
date? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Hall. July 12, 1915. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Where do you noAv reside ^ 

Mr. Hall. I reside in Venice. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Venice, California? 

Mr. Hall, That is correct, 

Mr, Ta-\^xner. How long have you resided there ? 

Mr, Hall, Approximately 5 years, 

Mr, Ta's^nner, Prior to that where did you reside ? 

Mr, Hall. I resided in many places. 

Mr, Tavenner, Well, the place immediately prior to your moving 
to Venice ? 

Mr. Hall. Well, Counsel, I think like many Americans I have lived 
in many places, worked at many tilings, and I don't see that this is 
pertinent to what this committee is trying to determine, therefore, I 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr, Chairman, as the name of the witness is not an un- 
common name, it is quite possible that there are a great many people 
by the same name in southern California, I think as a matter of 
proper identification these questions are pertinent and important, and 
I ask direction of the Chair that the witness be required to answer the 
question, 

Mr, Moulder, The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Hall. I decline on the basis of the rights guaranteed to me 
under the first amendment and fifth amendment to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Tavenjster. Is your refusal to answer due to the fact that you 
were assigned to the underground by the Communist Party of Wash- 
ington State? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer that on the basis of the previous 
statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Actually, you have been underground since approxi- 
mately 1950, prior to which time you were a functionary of the Com- 
munist Party in the State of Washington ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer on the previous statement, previous 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Barbara Hartle in 
Seattle? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1159 

Mr. Hall, Counsel, let's don't kid each other, I am not going to— 



Mr, Tavenner, I am not kidding anybody, I am asking you a serious 
question. 

Mr, Hall, I decline to answer on the grounds that I previously 
stated, 

]\Ir. Moulder, You might explain to the witness who this person is 
you are referring to so it might aid him in recalling whether he is 
acquainted with her or not, 

Mr, Tavenner, I think the witness knows who she is. I think the 
record should disclose that Barbara Hartle was one of the Smith Act 
defendants prosecuted and convicted, and who served time, I believe, 
as the number two Communist in the State of Washington. She 
testified fully before this committee regarding all of her activities 
within the Communist Party, including her being assigned to the un- 
derground along with a person by the name of Ralph Hall. 

Mr. Moulder. What did you say she was convicted of, Mr. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Under the Smith Act. Convicted on the charge of 
teaching communism. 

Mr. Moulder. Conspiracy to overthrow the Government by force 
and violence? 

Mr, Tavenner, Correct. Mrs. Hartle testified : 

I was furnished with $200.00 by Henry Huff when I left Seattle and some 
small sums after that ; but I went to work — I did various kinds of work, mostly 
as cook and waitress, and earned my own living. 

Question. While you were underground, did you pay dues to the Communist 
Party? 

Answer. Yes, I did. 

Question. This committee of three that you mentioned, how often did this 
group meet? 

Answer. The group was only two, at first — Ralph Hall and myself; and we 
met about once a week and later, as we went farther away and became more 
separated in point of living, about once in 2 weeks ; and it could vary — there 
might be 3 weeks for some reason that we didn't get together. 

Was Mrs. Hartle correct in identifying you as a member of the 
underground group with her in the State of Washington ? 

Mr, Hall. Counsel, there is an old saying that some things you 
wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. 

Generally speaking, stool pigeons and informers are of that char- 
acter, that no one would touch them with a, even a 20-foot pole, and 
I decline to answer on the basis of the gromids that I have previously 
stated, 

Mr, Jackson. That is one of the most adequate answers we have 
gotten from anybody today, I might add, 

Mr, Hall, That is your opinion, Mr, Jackson. 

Mr, Jackson, Yes, indeed. If I needed any conviction as to 
whether or not you were the Ealph Hall, and I tried to clarify this 
earlier, there is no further doubt in my mind but that you are the 
Ralph Hall referred to by Mrs, Hartle, 

Mr, Moulder, You are now being given an opportunity to deny 
the testimony which has been quoted to you by comisel ; do you wish 
to deny it ? 

Mr. HLall. I don't understand your question, sir. 

Mr, Moulder. It has often been said by some witnesses that they 
are accused before this committee and never given an opportunity to 
deny or affirm or explam. You are now being given that opportunity. 



1160 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Do you wish to deny the testimony that has been read to you by Mr. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Hall. AVell, sir, I think I indicated a feAv minutes ago that 
when it comes to stool pigeons, I have nothing 

Mr. Moulder. What is a stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Hall. I have nothing to do with them. I will not dignify 
them by either denying or confirming their slander and their smears 
and their charges, and certainly I do not consider a hearing like this 
an opportunity to prove one's guilt or one's innocence. I simply will 
not take any part in either denying or confirming the slander and 
the accusation. 

Mr. Moulder. You referred to a stool pigeon. Isn't a stool pigeon 
referred to usually as a person who truthfully reveals the facts with a 
fellow conspirator or fellow criminal ? 

Mr. Hall. Are you asking me for my opinion as to what a stool 
pigeon is? 

Mr. Moulder. That is what is usually referred to as a stool pigeon, 
and that is what you called this person. 

Mr. Hall. I am asking you, are you asking my opinion of what 
a stool pigeon is ? 

Mr. Moulder. No, you have evaded — ■ — 

Mr. Hall. Are you giving me your opinion ? 

Mr. Moulder. I have given you my opinion. 

Mr. Hall. But you are not asking me what my opinion is ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Hall. OK. 

Mr. Moulder. The facts are very apparent. Any other questions, 
Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Were you acquainted with a person by the 
name of Philip Ceis in Seattle ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer on the previous grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that because you consider he was also a stool 
pigeon ? 

Mr. Hall. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, he identified you in hearings in Seattle as a 
member of the Communist Party, as did also several other people, 
including Leonard Wildman ; do you recall Leonard Wildman ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Do you say that all of these people are im worthy of 
belief, and you just ignore them, and you won't dignify them with a 
rebuttal of any kind ? 

Mr. Hall. I think I stated very clearly my position. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I think you have, too. 

Are you now chairman of the Communist Party at Venice, Calif. ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer on the same grounds that I have given 
before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Before you went undergromid you were a part-time 
employee of the People's World, weren't you, say in 1949 ? 

Mr. Hall. Well, as I have stated before, I feel that this committee 
is out to further intimidate and wage cold war on the rights of the 
people, and I will not be a participant in such a project, and I decline 
to answer for the reasons that I have stated previously. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1161 

Mr. Tavenner. I have a copy of the February 24, 1949, issue of the 
People's World, in whicli it refere to you as the Northwest Washing- 
ton circulation director of that paper. Would you classify that 
publication also as a stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer on the basis I have previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Were you known by the name of Carl 
Swanson in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you attempt to conceal your i-eal identity by 
the use of that pseudonym ? 

Mr. Hall. I decline on the basis of the previous reasons given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat type of activity 

Mr. Hall. Pardon me, just a second. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Hall. I am a machine operator. 

Mr. Tavenner. Employed by whom ? 

Mr. Hall. What are you trying to do, blacklist me, get me fired ? 

Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction to the w^itness to answer the 
question ? 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. What we want to 
ivy to find out is whether or not you are engaged and working in what 
we would refer to as a sensitive or essential work in connection with 
the defense program. 

Mr. Hall. I am working in a shop that is totally nondef ense. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the name of that shop ? Maybe we can be 
the judge of that. 

Mr. Hall. I refuse on the grounds that it is not pertinent. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. May I have a direction ? 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Hall. May I ask what the purpose of it is ? Are you trying 
to get me fired ? Are you tiying to get me blacldisted from my job ? 

Mr. Moulder. Of course not. 

Mr. Hall. Well then, what is the purpose, I would like you to ex- 
plain tome? 

Mr. Jackson. I have a purpose, Mr. Chairman. I repeat that 
the name Ralph Hall is not an unusual name. There may be several 
hundred of them in the Los Angeles area. The question is perfectly 
proper as an essential means of proper identification of the witness ; to 
find out how he is employed and where, and I ask for the direction that 
the witness be required to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is again directed to answer. 

Mr. Hall. All right. Through my counsel I am asking you if you 
will accept this information off the record under oath ? 

Mr. Jackson. I have no objection. 

Mr. Hall. So I won't be blacklisted. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. What do you mean by off the record; you mean 
you don't want it in this record ? 

Mr. Hall. I don't want it to be publicized. 

Mr. Moulder. I see. Just write it down, and hand it to counsel as 
suggested by Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Hall. OK. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions ? 



1162 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Jackson. I have no questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Aclele Allen. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you be sworn as a witness, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

]Mrs. Allen. I do. 

Is my attorney, Mr. Wirin, here? He said that if he isn't in the 
room 

Mr. Moulder. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Allen. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. We will wait until your attorney comes. 

Mrs. Allen. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. The witness may stand aside. 

Dr. Murray Goldberg. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Dr. Goldberg. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DE. MURRAY GOLDBERG, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, LEO EENSTER 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Dr. Murray Goldberg ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Fenster. For the purpose of the record. Dr. Murray Goldberg 
is being represented by Leo Fenster, F-e-n-s-t-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born. Doctor ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Salt Lake City, Utah, 1918. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you now reside ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Los Angeles County. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Dr. Goldberg. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tav'enner. I understood that you were a doctor; you mean to 
give an honest answer to the question of what your profession is would 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Dr. Goldberg. I believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a dentist ? 

Dr. Goldberg. I decline to answer on the grounds of — the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. How could the practice of the profession of den- 
tistry incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fenster. Also, I don't want to argue about that, he is not 
supposed to adjudicate how that is to be, that is my job. 

Mr. Jackson. Tliat is the job of the courts, if it becomes necessary. 

Mr. Fenster. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I cannot conceive how in good faith 
any witness can decline to state what his profession is, and contend 
that he stands in real fear of prosecution on a criminal charge by 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1163 

reason of stating his profession, I ask that it be made very clear in 
the record, and that the witness be directed to state his profession, 
unless, of course, it is bank robber, or sonietliing of the sort whereby 
he can in good faith invoke his constitutional rights. 

Mr, Moulder, I agree with my colleague member of the committee. 
You are directed to answer the question, and in connection with that 
direction I wish to say that by your failure and refusal to answer you 
may be subjecting yourself to being in contempt of the Congress, I 
don't make that statement as a threat, but in order that you might 
be advised. And the question was asked you a moment ago as to 
whether or not you would be subject to prosecution, criminal prose- 
cution, as testing your good faith. You are directed to answer the 
question. 

]\Ir. Fenster. If I may indicate to the chainnan of the committee 
that Dr, Goldberg has no objection going off the record, if this is of 
any value. 

Mr, Jackson. Mr. Chairman, in the regular order, the witness has 
been directed to answer the question. He has counsel, he has every right 
to confer with counsel and arrive at his own decision. Counsel is not 
in a position to debate the matter with the committee. He can advise 
his client, his client may accept that advice if he sees fit. However, 
in light of the direction, I think the only question now is whether or 
not the witness will continue in his refusal to answer the question. 

Mr, Moulder. That is correct. 

Dr. Goldberg, Well, only in the sense that it be off the record. I 
would answer the question off the record, 

Mr, Moulder. You are directed to answer the question. 

Dr. Goldberg. Please repeat the question. 

Mr. Tavenner, I didn't hear the answer, 

Mr. Moulder. He asked that the question be repeated. 

Mr. Tavenner. As to his profession ? 

Will you repeat the question ? 

(The question was read.) 

Dr. Goldberg, Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you practice your profession ? 

Dr, Goldberg. Within the county of Los Angeles, 

Mr. Ta\^nner. How long have you been engaged in the practice of 
your profession, in what county, Los Angeles County ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Los Angeles. About 5 or 6 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you live in Los Angeles Comity ? 

Mr. Fenster. I would respectfully request of counsel and the chair- 
man of the committee for an indication on the part of the committee 
as to the legislative purpose of asking that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will be glad to explain it, Mr. Chairman. I 
thought it was quite obvious. 

The committee resolution states that this hearing is in part for the 
purpose of inquiring into Communist Party activities within the 
Western Section of this Southern California District of the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Now, I am trying to see if this witness lives within the Western 
Section also called the Bay Cities Section, and I think the reason is 
quite apparent that we want to locate him geographically so as to be 



1164 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

able to know what liis opportunities are for knowledge of Conmiunist 
Party activities in that area. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, augmenting that, I am informed that 
there is at least one more Dr. Murray Goldberg in the Los Angeles 
area. I think it is of equal importance that we determine where this 
witness has his residence in order that there may be absolutely no 
chance of any confusion on that score. 

Mr. Fenster. Dr. Goldberg raises the question, and it is conceiv- 
able 

Mr. Moulder. Let the witness speak. 

Mr. Fenster. He is confused; as his counsel I believe I have the 
right to ask. 

Mr. Moulder. You can advise your client whatever you wish. 

Mr. Fenster. He doesn't know whether the counsel is attempting 
to correlate the purported Western Section of the Conmiunist Party 
to his residence. If he will restate his question and ask him if he lives 
in the Bay Area or the Bay District, this may be helpful to the witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you wish to rephrase your question '? 

Mr. Tavenner. If it isn't perfectly clear, I will restate wdiat I un- 
derstand was the question. 

Mr. Fenster. Tlianlv you, Counsel. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live ? 

Dr. Goldberg. In the Bay Area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere, what address, that is a very general area. 

Dr. Goldberg. 1240 Yale Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yale Street, what city ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Santa Monica. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, it has been a long time finding that out. 
"V^Hiere do you maintain your office ? 

Mr. Fenster. May I indicate that— — • 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is about the fifth time that coun- 
sel has interrupted and violated the rule of the committee, and I think 
there ought to be some limit to it. 

Mr. Moulder. The rules of the committee do not permit counsel 
to argue or 

Mr. Fenster. I am not attempting to argue with you, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Or make any formal motions or 

Mr. Fenster. We are not making any motions, we are making an 
offer of proof that he be willing to give his address off the record. He 
has been placed in a position by this committee 

Mr. Moulder. You so advise liim, if you wish. You can confer 
with your client. 

Mr. Fenster. I am making an offer of proof. 

Mr. MoLTLDER. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Dr. Goldberg. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tav^enner. May I have a direction that he answer? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, with all deference, and I insisted on 
what I consider to be adequate identification so far as his profession 
was concerned, and also his address, to the end that there might be 
no possible confusion with another doctor with the same name. I 
myself do not see the purpose of asking for the address of his office. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1105 

Mr, Moui^DER. He has invoked the fifth amendment in response to 
that question, as I understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Is that the case ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Yery well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Goldberg, have you at any time been a member 
of a professional section of the Communist Party in the Los Angeles 
area ? 

Dr. Goldberg. I decline to answer on the gi'ounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you engaged in the printing of Communist 
Party literature or publications for a gi-oup of the Commmiist Party 
with the use of printing equipment OAvned by the Communist Party ? 

Dr. GoLDBERo. Same answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Have you attended closed Communist Party meet- 
ings with Mrs. Moiselle dinger ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Same answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you present during her testimony a few 
moments ago ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did you hear her identify you as having attended 
meetings of her group of the Communist Party, although you were 
not a member of that group, did you hear that ? 

Dr. GoLDBEEG. I did hear that part. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she con-ect in her testimony insofar as it 
affected you? 

Dr. Goldberg. Decline to answer on the same gTounds. 

Mr Tavenner. Are you a member of the Conmiunist Party now ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Decline to answer. 

Mr. Jackson. The last declination on the same grounds? 

Dr. Goldberg. Same grounds, yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. Have you had any assignment by the Communist 
Party to engage in Communist Party activities within any mass 
organizations ? 

Dr. Goldberg. Decline to answer on the same grounds. 

jMr. Taa-enner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. IMom.DER. Any questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Mr. Wirin here now ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gilbert Drummond. 

Mr. Moxn^DER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help jon God? 

Mr. Druivimond. I do. 



1166 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

TESTIMONY OF GILBERT DRUMMOND, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

LEO FENSTER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Drummond. Gilbert Drummond. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record ? 

Mr. FejStster. For the record, Gilbert Drummond is being repre- 
sented by Leo Fenster, F-e-n-s-t-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when were you born, Mr. Drummond ? 

Mr. Drummond. I was born in St. Louis, Missouri, September 29, 
1921. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Drummond. Los Angeles County. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles County ? 

Mr. Drummond. Sixteen or seventeen years. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said you lived in Los Angeles County, to be 
more specific, do you live in San Pedro ? 

Mr. Drummond. No, well, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat ? 

Mr. Drummond. Yes, it is all right. Yes, I live — it is not San 
Pedro, but it is near there. It is in the vicinity. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is your mailing address ? 

Mr. Drummond. Yes. We have just changed the mailing address, 
that is why I hesitated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you first come to California to make it 
your place of residence ? 

Mr. Drummond. 1942, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat is your occupation ? 

Mr. Drummond. I am a certified public accountant. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged as a certified 
public accountant? 

Mr. Drummond. I started my practice November 15, 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state what your formal educational train- 
ing has been ? 

Mr. Drummond. The high school and college training required to 
pass the C.P.A. exam. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you take your college work ? 

Mr. Drummond. In Missouri, St. Louis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever received assignments by Communist 
Party groups to work in certain mass organizations by joining them 
and supporting their objectives? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer that on the basis of the first 
amendment and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. dinger has testified here today under oath 
that you were assigned by the Communist Party to engage in work 
within certain minority groups; was she telling the truth about that? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer, same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, have you worked for minority groups at the 
instance of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever assigned by the Communist Party 
to become active in the Independent Progressive Party ? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1167 

Mr. Drummond. Decline for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of Appointment of 
Members of the State Central Committee for the Year 1952 of the 
Independent Progressive Party, in which you are named as one of 
three members of the State Central Committee to meet at Sacramento, 
August 3, 1952. Will you examine it, please, and state whether or 
not you occupied that position ? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer on the same grounds as previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer that docmnent in evidence, and ask that it 
be marked as "Druimnond Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Moulder. The document will be marked "Exhibit 1," and it 
will be admitted into evidence. 

(Document marked "Drummond Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you circulate a petition for the Independent 
Progi'essive Party of California as indicated by your signature in 
affidavit form to the paper which I now hand you ? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Is that your signature to the affidavit ? 

( Document handed to witness. ) 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence, and ask it be 
marked "Drummond Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered. 

(Document marked "Drummond Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you affiliated with the Los Angeles Commit- 
tee To Secure Justice in the Rosenberg Case? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer for the same grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of the committee's investigation it has 
been ascertained that you attended on January 5 and 6, 1957, the Los 
Angeles County Convention of the Communist Party ; did you attend 
that meeting? 

]Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Clinger has identified you as an active mem- 
ber of Communist Party groups with which she was attached; was 
she correct in her identification ? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Drummond. I decline to answer, same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr, Chairman, 

Mr, Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder, Witness excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Harriet Blumenkranz; will you come for- 
ward, please, Mrs. Blumenkranz ? 

Mr. Wheeler. We put her over until tomorrow morning. I guess 
that is all we have. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Adele Allen, may I ask you whether your 
counsel has returned ? 



1168 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mrs. Allen. I doirt see him. Will someone go out and see if they 
can find him again, so I won't have to come back another day ? J 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I didn't hear you. ^ 1 

Mrs. Allen. Would it be all right to go out and find hnn so 1 won t ■ 
have to come back another day ? • j j. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand m recess tor a period o± 

ten minutes. 

]\Irs. Allen. Thank you very much. 

(Short recess taken.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be ni order. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ISIouLDER. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Adele Allen. 

Mr. Moulder. I believe you were sworn as a witness, but we will 

do it again. . i , x • 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Allen. I do. -, , -r i i ^^ 

Mr, WmiN. I apologize for my not being here. I had a matter 
with the Judge, but I am back here now. 
Mr. Moulder. We understand. 

TESTIMONY OF ADELE ALLEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
A. L. WIRIN— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat is your name ? 

Mrs. Allen. Adele Allen. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell both names ? 

Mrs. Allen. A-d-e-1-e A-1-l-e-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the Avitness please 
identify himself for the record? 

Mr. WiRiN. My name is A. L. Wirin. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Are you Miss or Mrs. Allen ? 

Mrs. Allen. Mrs. Allen. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the state of your birth ? 

Mrs. Allen. Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mrs. Allen. Venice, California. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in Venice ? 

Mrs. Allen. About four years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Pai-ty? 

Mrs. Allen. I decline to answer on the grounds afforded to me by 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Moiselle Clmgerf 

Mrs. Allen. Yes. . 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear her testimony here this afternoon ? 

Mr. Wirin. Mr. Chairman, the witness answered before I had a 
chance to consult with her. May I consult with her with respect to 
the answer that she made to the former question ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Wirin. May she withdraw the answer to the question so I may 
consult with her and advise her? 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 1169 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, she can witlidraw. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ilowever, the record should show that she an- 
swered it, and what tlie answer was. 

Mr. WmiN. Of course, tlie record will clearly show what it shows. 

Mrs. Allen. I would like to withdraw that answer, and take the 
first and fifth amendments in response to the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. What question ? 

Mrs. Allen. To the question that you put with regard to whether 
or not I knew this woman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Knew what woman ? 

Mrs. Allen. Mrs. Clinger. 

Mr. Tavenner, I object to withdrawal of the answer. 

Mr. WiRiN. Well, I understood the chairman was good enough to 
permit us to do so, it happens often. 

Mr. Moulder. Permission has been granted to the witness to with- 
draw her answer. 

Mrs. Allen. Thank you. 

]\Ir. Moulder. And she has invoked the first and fiftli amend- 
ments as her response to the question. 

Mrs. Allen. Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson, I would suggest the witness be a little more careful 
about her answers, though. 

Mr. WiRiN. Glad to see Mr. Tavenner overruled. I think this is 
the first time I have seen it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have been overruled often, 

Mr. WiRiN. The first time I have seen it. 

Mr. Jackson. It doesn't happen very often. 

Mr. WiRiN. He is right more often than not. 

Mr. Tavenner, You heard her testimony here this morning, and 
this afternoon, did you not ? 

Mrs. Allen. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me advise you that regardless of your re- 
fusal to answer, she did in fact identify you as a person who had l>een 
in closed Communist Party meetings with her. So I want to ask you 
the question, was she testifying truthfully in regard to that? 

Mrs. Allen. I decline to answer that question on the grounds af- 
forded me by the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend closed Communist Party meetings 
with Mrs. Moiselle Clinger ? 

Mrs. Allen. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. WiRiN. Excuse me, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has received information through 
the report of Dorothy Healey as to the situation of the Communist 
Party with regard to its youtli projects, and we are trying to under- 
stand just what the Communist Party is doing, or plans to do within 
youth organizations. 

Have you at any time been engaged in youth organizational work 
for the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Allen. I decline to answer that question based on the previ- 
ously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the current plan of the 
Communist Party with regard to work within youth organizations? 

Mrs. Allen. Same answer for the same reasons. 



1170 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mrs. Allen. Same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions? 

Mr. Jackson. No. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr.WiRiN. Thank you. It was a verj^ short trip. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. , i i • . i 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will recess until 10 oclock m the 

(Whereupon, at 4 :40 p.m., Tuesday, October 20, the subcommittee 
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, October 21, 1959.) 



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