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HARVARD  COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 


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GIFT  OF  THE 


GOVERNMENT 
OF  THE  UNITED  STATES 


us  Doc  2.791 


Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
House 
86th  Congress 


Table  of  Contents 

(Since  these  hearings  are  consecutively  paged 
they  are  ariranged  by  page  number,  instead  of 
alphabetically  by  title) 


1.  American  National  Exhibition,  Moscow,    "^njd 
July  1959 

2.  Communist  Training  Operations,  pt.l     "^IQ  ' 

5.  Testimony  of  Clinton  Edward  Jencks        S)'^^ 

k.   Testimony  of  Arnold  Johnson,  Legislative    ^  .| 
Director  of  the  Commimist  Party,  U.S.A. 

5-7.  Western  Section  of  the  Southern  California   .  ^^ 
District  of  the  Communist  Party,  pt.1-5 

8.  Issues  Presented  by  Air  Reserve  Center      ^i^^s'" 
Training  Manual 


9-10.  Communist  Training  Operations,  pt.  2-5 

11-12.  Communist  Activities  Among  Puerto  Ricans  in 
New  York  City  and  Puerto  Rico,  pt.1-2 


^^^6 


;'  D 


L 

WESTERN  SECTION  OF  THE  SOUTHERN  CALIFORNIA 
DISTRICT  OF  THE  COMMUNIST  PARTY 


HEARINGS 


BEFORE  THE 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMEKICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OE  REPEESENTATIVES 


EIGHTY-SIXTH  CONGRESS 

FIRST  SESSION 


OCTOBER  22,  1959 


PART  3 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
(INCLUDING  INDEX) 


HARVARD  COLLEGE  LIBRARY 

DEPOSITED  BY  THE 
UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 

MAY  23  1960 

UNITED  STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
48192  WASHINGTON  :    1960 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
United  States  House  of  Representatives 

FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania,  Chairman 
MORGAN-  M    MOULDER,' Missouri  DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California 

CLYDE  DOYLE,  California  GORDON  H.  SCHERER   Oh.o 

EDW  N  E    WILLIS.  Louisiana  WILLIAM  E.  MILLER   New  York 

WILLIAM   M.  TUck,  Virginia  AUGUST  E.  .TOHANSEN,  M.clugan 

Richard  Arens,  Staff  Director 

n 


CONTENTS 


I'AKT    1 

Page 

Synopsis vi 

Oc-tober  20,  15)59  :  Testimony  of— 

Daniel  Fram-is  Cohen 1118 

Aai'on   K.   Cohen 1125 

Daniel  Bessie 1127 

Moiselle  (J.)  dinger 1133 

Afternoon  session : 

Moiselle  (J.)   Clinger   (resumed) 1137 

William   Rubin 1155 

Ralph  Hall 1158 

Adele  Allen 1162 

Dr.  Murray  (Julius)   (Joldberj; 1162 

Gilbert  Drumniond 1166 

Adele  Allen   (resumed) 1168 

I'AKT    2 

Synopsis.      {8cc  Part  1,  p.  vi. ) 

October  21.  1!>5!) :   Testinuaiy  of — 

Robert   Duff  Brent 1171 

Harriet    Blunienkranz 1174 

Lona  Wells 1177 

Milton  Kagan 1179 

Joe    Sniderman 1181 

Paul  Geiselman.  Jr 1182 

John    (F. )    Kranen 1187 

Afternoon  session  : 

Marion    Miller 1189 

Phyllis    Lebow 1214 

Eleanor  Maas 1219 

Donald   Ornitz 1221 

Eleanor  Maas  (resumed) 1223 

I'ART    3 

Synopsis.      (See  Part  1,  p.  vi. ) 

Octolter  22.  1959:  Testimony  of — 

A.  L.  Wirin   (Statement) 1227 

Harper   (W.)    Poulson 1229 

Afternoon  session : 

James  George  McGowan 1250 

William  Wallace  Norton.  Jr 1253 

Mark  Eugene  Sink 1261 

Jack    Burstein 1263 

Adele  Kronick  Silva 1264 

Index i 

m 


uBLic  Law  601,  79th  Congress 

The  leo-islation  under  which  the  House  Coinniittee  on  Un-American 
Activities  operates  is  Public  Law  601,  79th  Congress  [1946],  chapter 
753,  2d  session,  which  provides: 

Be  it  enacted  by  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  of  the  Untied  States 
of  America  in  Congress  assembled,   *   *   * 

PART  2— RULES  OF  THE  HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule  X 

SEC.   121.    STAXDINO    COMMITTEES 
******* 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  Members. 

Rule  XI 

POWERS    AND    DUTIES    OF    COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q)  (1)   Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(A)    Un-American  activities.  .    „,,,„,.. 

2)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommit- 
tee, is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (i  the  extent, 
character,  and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  btateb, 
(ii)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  iin-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and  attacks 
the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitution,  and 
(iii)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  m  any  necessary 

''The  CommiUee"on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation  together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For 'the  purpose  of  anv  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  or  anv  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such 
tlmerand  places' within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting, 
hS  recessed  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  y)e  served  by  any  person 
designated  bv  anv  such  chairman  or  member. 

***** 

Rule  XII 

LEGISLATIVE    OVERSIGHT    BY    STANDI.XG    COMMITTEES 

Sec  136  To  assist  the  Congress  in  appraising  the  administration  of  the  laws 
and  in  developing  such  amendments  or  related  legislation  as  it  may  deem  neces- 
sarv  each  standing  committee  of  the  Senate  and  the  House  ot  Representatives 
shall  exercise  continuous  watchfulness  of  the  execution  by  the  adn^inistrative 
agencies  concerned  of  any  laws,  the  subject  matter  o  which  >%Y'^  rn^nt^  rpnnS; 
tion  of  such  committee;  and,  for  that  purpose,  shall  study  all  Pertment  reports 
and  data  submitted  to  the  Congress  by  the  agencies  in  the  executive  branch  ot 
the  Covernment. 


RULES  ADOPTED  BY  THE  86TH  CONGRESS 
House  Resolution  7,  January  7,  1959 

Rule  X 

STANDING    COMMITTEES 

1.  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  House,  at  the  commencement  of  each  Con- 
gress, 

(q)    Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  Members. 

*  H:  *  *  *  *  * 

Rule  XI 

POWERS    AND    DUTIES    OF    COMMITTEES 

ij:  :J:  :);  Hi  =i=  *  5f! 

18.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(a)  Un-American  activities. 

(b)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee, 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent,  char- 
acter, and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(2)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  prop- 
aganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion, and  (3)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress 
in  any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  times 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  has 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  maj-  be  served  by  any  person 
designated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

:*:  :t:  :(:  *  :^  :J:  H« 

26.  To  assist  the  House  in  appraising  the  administration  of  the  laws  and  in 
developing  such  amendments  or  related  legislation  as  it  may  deem  necessary, 
each  standing  committee  of  the  House  shall  exercise  continuous  watchfulness 
of  the  execution  by  the  administrative  agencies  concerned  of  any  laws,  the  subject 
matter  of  which  is  within  the  jurisdiction  of  such  committee;  and,  for  that 
purpose,  shall  study  all  pertinent  reports  and  data  submitted  to  the  House  by 
the  agencies  in  the  executive  branch  of  the  Government. 


WESTERN  SECTION  OF  THE  SOUTHERN  CALIFORNIA 
DISTRICT  OF  THE  COMMUNIST  PARTY 

Part  3 


THURSDAY,   OCTOBER   22,    1959 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Los  Angeles^  Calif. 

PUBLIC   hearings 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
met,  piu-siiant  to  recess,  at  10  a.m.,  in  Courtroom  No.  1,  United  States 
Post  Office  and  Federal  Building-,  Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  Hon.  Morgan 
M.  Moulder  (chairman  of  the  subcommittee)  presiding. 

Subcommittee  members  present:  Hon.  Morgan  M.  Moulder,  of  Mis- 
souri, and  Hon.  Donald  L.  Jackson,  of  California. 

Statf  membere  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel,  and  Wil- 
liam A.  Wheeler,  investigator. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  subcommittee  will  be  in  order. 

This  morning  i\\&  subcommittee  received  the  following  telegram 
from  Mr.  Wirin,  counsel  for  the  American  Civil  Liberties  I^nion.  The 
telegram  reads  as  follows : 

Pursiiant  rules  your  committee  and  statement  at  opening  of  Los  Angeles  hear- 
ings tliat  any  person  named  in  course  committee  hearings  be  given  early  op- 
portunity appear  to  deny  or  explain  adverse  testimony,  I  desire  appear  briefly 
in  behalf  American  Civil  Liberties  Union  with  respect  testimony  of  Marion 
Miller  mentioning  American  Civil  Liberties  Union. 

A.  L.  WiBiN,  Counsel. 

In  accordance  with  the  rules  and  the  practice  of  the  committee,  Mr. 
Wirin,  would  you  care  to  come  forward  as  a  witness  and  be  sworn  ? 

Mr.  W^iRiN.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Do  you  solenndy  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole 
truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  do. 

STATEMENT  OF  A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr.  Wirin.  Mr.  Chairman,  you  don't  want  to  interrogate  me.  May 
I  state  our  position  ? 
Mr.  Moulder.  Proceed. 

1227 


1228    IN\^ESTIGATION  OF  COjVEMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  WiRix.  I  was  present  yesterday  when  ]Mrs.  Miller  gave  her 
testimony,  and  I  shall  make  no  comment  on  any  of  the  testimony  ex- 
cept that  portion  which  referred  to  the  American  Civil  Liberties 
Union. 

As  I  recall  her  testimony,  it  was  to  the  effect  that  there  had  been 
vandalism  at  her  home  in  opposition  to  a  position  she  had  taken,  and 
that  her  husband  liad  communicated  with  the  American  Civil  Liber- 
ties Union  seeking  help  and  didn't  receivo  it. 

Subsequent  to  the  hearing  I  checked  in  my  own  office.  I  am  counsel 
for  the  American  Civil  Liberties  Union  of  Southern  California.  And 
I  checked  with  the  officials  at  the  office,  the  main  office  of  the  Ameri- 
can Civil  Liberties  Union. 

First,  there  is  no  record  of  any  kind  at  the  office  of  the  American 
Civil  Liberties  Union  in,  in  contradistinction  to  mine,  of  any  claim 
made  by  any  person  with  respect  to  alleged  vandalism  at  the  home  of 
the  Millers. 

Moreover,  if  such  a  claim  were  made,  it  would  come  to  my  attention, 
as  counsel  for  the  American  Civil  Liberties  Union.  I  have  been  coun- 
sel for  more  years  than  I  need  now  mention ;  in  any  event,  for  a  period 
longer  than  the  Millers'  testimony,  and  not  only  do  I  recall  no  com- 
[)laint  or  claim  of  vandalism  at  their  home,  but  I  am  confident  that  no 
such  claim  came  to  my  attention;  and,  finally,  had  such  a  claim  come 
to  my  attention,  as  counsel  for  the  American  Civil  Liberties  Union,  or 
to  the  American  Civil  Liberties  Union,  it  would  have  been  treated  ex- 
actly as  any  claim  of  vandalism,  of  vigilantism  against  any  person; 
it  would  have  been  thoroughly  investigated,  and  a  protest  w^ould  have 
been  made  with  respect  to  such  vandalism,  whether  or  not  we  disa- 
greed Avith  the  views  of  the  person  who  was  involved,  and  we  would 
have  either  made  a  public  protest,  or,  if  the  facts  warranted,  filed 
civil  suit  for  damages,  a  procedure  with  which  this  committee  is  not 
completely  unacquainted. 

So,  insofar  as  the  American  (^ivil  Liberties  Union  is  concerned,  we 
draw  no  distinction  with  respect  to  any  person.  If  any  person's 
rights,  no  matter  his  race  or  his  opinion,  are  violated,  we  take  exactly 
the  same  action,  and  we  would  have  in  this  instance,  although,  need- 
less to  say,  many  of  us  personally  do  not  share  the  view  as  to  the  role 
of  informants  and  as  to  their  value  that  others  in  this  room  have,  but 
that  is  entirely  beside  the  point. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  questions. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  ]\IouLDER.  Call  the  next  witness. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  ]Mr.  Plarper  Poulson. 

]Mr.  ]MotiLDER.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  trutli,  the  whole 
truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  (xod  i 

Mr.  PoT'nsoN.  T  do. 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1229 

TESTIMONY  OF  HARPER  (W.)  POULSON,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
COUNSEL,  A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr.  Tavennek.  Will  you  state  your  uanie,  please,  sir  \ 
Mr.  PouLSON.  My  name  is  Harper  l*oulson. 

Mr.  Tavenxep..  Will  counsel  acconipanying  the  witness  j)lease 
identify  himself  for  the  record? 

Mr.  Wiring.  A.  L.  W^irin  of  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  and  when  were  you  bom,  Mr.  Toulson '. 

Mr.  Poui.soN.  I  was  born  in  Lincoln,  Nebr.,  August  4,  1913. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVhere  do  you  now  reside? 

Mr.  PouLSOx.  In  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  a  resident  of  the  State  of 
California? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  came  out  here  short Iv  after  I  got  out  of  the  Ariny  in 
AVorld  War  II.     I  guess  it  was  April  10I(). 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  vou  serve  in  the  Armed  Forces  of  the 
United  States  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  Two  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your 
formal  educational  training  has  been  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  The  usual  grammar  school  and  high  school.  That 
was  East  Orange,  N.  J.  Then  I  studied  at  Oberlin  College  in  Ohio, 
and  then  completed  a  B.A.  at  Western  Reserve  University  in  Cleve- 
land, Ohio. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  that  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  To  the  best  of  my  recollection,  it  must  have  been 
somewhere  around  1935.  I  don't  think  you  want  me  to  stop  now-  and 
count  fingers  on  it,  do  you  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  accurate  enough. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  After  that  I  worked  for  a  while,  and  then  went  to 
the  University  of  London,  where  I  studied  for  a  little  more  than  2 
years ;  no  degree  as  a  resvdt. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  Ehodes  scholar  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Xo,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  period  of  time  in  which  you  pursued 
your  educational  training  in  London  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  That  would  be  the  autunni  of  1936  through  early  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  had  a  number  of  witnesses  be- 
fore it  who  did  receive  part  of  their  educational  training  in  London, 
wdiere  they  became  acquainted  with  the  activities  of  the  Communist 
Party  in  London.  Did  you  have  any  experience  with  the  Communist 
Party  in  England  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  am  going  to  answer  that  question 
right  away.  In  fact,  the  answer  is  yes.  But  I  would  like  to  explain 
something,  if  I  may,  briefly. 

I  am  an  unwilling  witness  here.  However,  I  intend  to  answer  any 
and  all  questions  pertaining  to  myself,  my  actions  or  beliefs  at  any 
time.  I  am  not  going  to,  however,  answer  questions  relating  to  my 
associations  with  any  other  individuals.  I  am  going  to  invoke,  on 
advice  of  counsel,  the  protection  of  the  first  and  fifth  amendments  to 
the  Constitution,  and  there  may  be  at  times  some  question  of  relevancy. 

48192—60 — pt.  3 2 


1230     lN^■^:STI(iATION   of   communist  activities  in  CALIFORNIA 

I  Avoiild  like  to  explain,  still  briefly,  that  I  have  never  done  anything, 
I  am  sure,  that  would  give  me  any  cause  to  have  fear  about  testifying 
about  anything  I  may  have  ever  done  or  thought. 

However,  I  liave  observed  that  acts  which  in  themselves  are  in  no 
way  illegal  sometimes,  when  wrapped  up  in  conspiracy  charges,  be- 
come acts  which  have  the  efl'ect  of  making  a  person  liable  legally,  and 
I  have  no  control  ovei-  the  acts  of  others  with  whom  T  may  have  asso- 
ciated, and  I  therefore  feel  that  I  need  the  protection  of  the  fifth 
amendment  of  the  Constitution  with  regard  to  such  questions. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Mr.  Chairman  'i 

Mr.  Moulder.  Yes,  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Following  on  the  statement,  I  am  sure  that  counsel 
has  advised  the  witness  of  the  possible  jeopardy  of  the  course  of  action 
lie  proposes  to  follow. 

Is  this  the  case,  do  you  i-ealize  that  by  answering  certain  questions 
in  a  given  line  of  questioning  and  declining  to  answer  others  having 
to  do  with  the  same  subject  matter,  that  conceivably  you  will  have 
waived  your  rights  under  the  interpretations  of  the  law  i 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Congressman  Jackson,  as  you  know,  my  attorney  is 
Mr.  Wirin,  who  has  a  lot  of  experience  in  these  things.  I  am  guiding 
myself  by  his  counsel.  However,  it  is  also  true  that  I  think  the  com- 
mittee would  want  to  know  whethei-  I  am  fully  aware  of  the  possible 
consequences  of  my  course  of  action.  To  the  best  of  my  belief,  my 
course  of  actions  do  not  place  me  in  jeopardy,  but  I  am  aware  of  the 
fact  that  there  may  be  differences  of  opinion  here,  that  there  are  even 
ambiguities,  perhaps,  in  the  legal  ])icture.  "What  I  am  doing  I  am 
doing  because  I  feel  that  I  have  to  do  it,  having  been  summoned 
liere. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  I  have  no  quarrel  with  whatever  course  of  action  you 
feel  desirable  to  take.  However,  again,  we  must  make  the  record 
clear,  and  for  that  reason  T  did  want  to  know  whether  you  were  aware 
of  possible  jeopardy. 

Ml'.  PouLsox.  Yes.  I  understand  this,  and  I  understand  the  neces- 
sity for  you  to  say  certain  things  for  the  record. 

Ml'.  Jacksox.  Tliank  you. 

Afr.  AViRix.  May  I  confer  for  just  a  minute'^ 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Yes. 

Mr.  Poui.sox.  May  I,  on  advice  of  counsel,  add  a  word  to  what  I 
just  said?  I  repeat  tliat  I  appreciate  fully  and  I  think  T  understand 
your  position.  I  do  think  that  it  should  be  clear  that  counsel  advises 
me,  and  I  believe  that  I  am  not,  in  fact,  waiving  my  rights,  and  I 
cei'tainly  don't  want  to  waive  any  of  my  constitutional  rights  by  the 
course  of  action  I  pui'sue. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Tliat  decision,  of  course,  would  not  be  made  in  this 
foi'um. 

However,  the  i-ecord  nnist  be  made  clear  to  the  extent  that  you  have 
knowledge  of  a  possibility  of  jeopardy. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Mr.  Poulson,  we  have  learned  through  other  hear- 
ings that  we  have  conducted  in  this  area  within  the  recent  past  about 
the  reorganization  of  the  Communist  Party  in  Southern  California, 
the  division  of  the  CVimmunist  Pai'ty  of  the  State  of  California  into 
two  districts,  the  Northern  and  tht^  Southern  District,  and  that  the 


INVESTIGATION    OF   COMMUNIST   ACTIVJTIKS    IN    CALIFORNIA     1231 

Soutliei'ii  District  is  (•.<>mj)<)s<'fl  of  appi-()xini;ih>ly  2S  seel  ions.  Arc 
you  a  menihei'  of  any  one  of  tIif)S('  iiS  sections  ? 

Ml".  PonLsoN.  No,  1  am  not,  Mr.  Tavennci-,  and  the  lirst  lime  I 
liad  knowled^-e  of  all  of  the  organizational  infoniiation  of  which  yon 
just  s})oke  was  when  1  read  about  it  in  (he  newspapers,  as  alleged  dnr- 
ing  the  course  of  these  hearings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  attended  any  district  council  meeting 
of  the  Southern  California  District  of  the  Communist  Party  since 
April  1957? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Perhaps  we  could  simply  facilitate  matters  here  if 
I  explain  that  I  left  the  Connnunist  Party  in  Januaiy,  the  first  week 
of  January  of  1957.    This  would  make  it  simpler  to  couch  questions. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Well,  have  you  attended  a  district  coinicil  meeting 
of  the  Communist  Party  since  April  1957? 

Mr.  PouLSox'^.  Well,  it  would  follow  that  I  have  not. 

Mr.  Tavex'ner.  It  would  not  necessarily  follow. 

Mr.  PouLSOx-^.  I  beg  your  pardon.  I  didn't  mean  any  disrespect, 
really. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  undei'stand,  but  I  just  want  to  know  whether  you 
attended  a  meeting. 

Mr.  PouLSOx.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  He  will  tell  you. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  time  in  Januaiy  1957  did  you  sever  your 
membership  with  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  It  is  almost  beyond  human  power  to  be  exact  about 
it,  but  I  would  say  it  was — if  I  said  January  1,  1957,  that  would  be  a 
very  truthful  answer.    It  may  have  been  the  3d  or  the  2d. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  prior  to  the  Sixteenth  National  Conven- 
tion of  the  Communist  Party  or  subse(|uent  to  it? 

Mr.  PouLSOx\  I  honestly  am  not  sure  about  the  date  at  wdiicli  the 
convention  was  held,  but  it 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  February  9-12, 1957. 

Mr.  PouLSOx^  But  it  seems  to  me  that  it  was  prior  to  it,  because  part 
of  my  complete  decision  to  leave  the  party,  as  I  recall,  included — was  a 
conviction  on  my  part  that  that  convention  was  not  going  to  change 
anything. 

Mr.  Tavex^xer.  In  other  words,  you  were  disagreeing  at  that  time 
^\'ith  the  objectives  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  you  thought  those 
objectives  would  not  be  changed? 

Mr.  PouLSOx\  I  Avas  disagreeing  at  that  time  with  some  of  the  con- 
duct of  the  part}',  some  of  its  objectives,  and  I  was  of  the  opinion  that, 
while  there  were  many  people  who  did  disagree,  they  were  not  going 
to  be  able  to  make  their  views  effectively  felt  within  the  organization. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Because  of  the  domination  of  the  policies  of  the 
Communist  Party  from  the  top,  is  that  what  you  mean? 

Mr.  PouLsox.  Yes.  I  believe  that  the  Communist  Party  was  organ- 
ized in  a  way  which  made  it  very  difficult  for  individuals  within  the 
organization  who  did  diifer  to  gain  support  for  an  effective  expression 
of  their  views. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nx"j:r.  Now,  what  were  the  objectives  of  the  Commimist 
Pai'ty  at  that  time  with  which  you  disagreed  ? 


1232    IISr^^ESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Not  in  order  to  sidestep  your  question,  but  in  order 
to  facilitate  matters,  would  it  be  all  right  if  I  answered  in  the  form 
of  stating;  what  my  beliefs  were  ^     I  think  it  a  little  easier  to  organize. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No.  I  am  not  interested  in  what  your  beliefs  were. 
T  am  interested 

Mr.  Pori.soN.  I  mean  on  that  subject. 

Mr.  TA^•ENNER.  I  am  interested  only  in  what  the  objectives  of  the 
Communist  Party  were. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  All  right.     I  will  try  to 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  it  would  be  very  interesting  to 
hear  the  witness'  statement  in  the  form  he  proposes  to  make  it,  going  a 
step  further,  and  pointing  out  specifically  as  you  go  along  these  things 
to  which  you  took  exception  or  to  which  you  objected. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  This  would  inevitably  come  out,  and  I  felt  that  it 
might  be — give  a  more  completely  truthful  picture. 

Mr.  MoiTLDER.  You  may  proceed  along  that  line. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Thank  you.  I  found  myself,  by  the  time  at  which  I 
left  the  Communist  Party,  convinced  that  while  there  might  be  many 
good  things  to  be  said  about  a  Socialist  method  of  organizing  the 
economy  of  a  country,  it  was  inconceivable  that  we  in  America  would 
ever  have  a  form  of  organization  politically  and  in  other  respects 
which  would  resemble  that  of  any  other  country,  the  Soviet  Union, 
or  any  other  country.  I  came  to  the  conclusion  that  in  America,  the 
United  States,  we  are  so  wedded  to  democracy,  to  both  its  contents 
and  its  forms,  whatever  weaknesses  our  democracy  may  have  and 
however  often  we  may  slip  in  enforcing  it,  we  are  so  wedded  to  it  that 
any  economic  changes  that  would  come  in  this  country  would  have 
to  come  about  through  constitutional  processes,  and  in  ways  which 
are  native  to  our  United  States  way  of  life. 

Now,  I  had  believed,  that  is,  by  and  large,  all  of  the  time  that  I 
was  in  the  Communist  Party — and  you  may  think  me  mistaken — that 
it  had  been  my  impression  that  all  Communists  in  the  United  States 
believed  this. 

I  am  aware  that  historically  there  was  a  time  when  this  was  not  so, 
but  that  ))redated  my  being  in  the  Communist  Party. 

As  you  know,  the  constitution  of  the  Communist  Party  of  the  United 
States  carried  a  provision  against  advocating  the  overthrow  of  the 
Government  by  force  or  violence  and  said  that  anyone  who  did  do  so 
should  be  expelled  from  the  party,  and,  believe  me,  when  I  read  that, 
I  believed  it  fully,  as  I  felt  many  other  Conmiunists  did. 

But  what  happens  in  life,  you  see,  is  that  you  may  believe  in  a  prin- 
ciple, and  yet  when  you  are  v/orking  out  practical  day-to-day  tactics 
or  attitudes  toward  other  people,  you  find  that  you  are  being  led  into 
taking  tactical  positions  which  may  be  interpreted  by  others  as  not 
concerned  with  the  principle  you  believe  in,  and  you  may  find  that 
some  of  your  fellow  workei-s  in  an  organization  are  so — how  will  I  put 
it — lopsided  in  their  weighing  of  the  evidence,  as  regards  this  coun- 
try or  other  countries,  that  with  the  best  will  in  the  Avorld  they  sim- 
ply can't  come  out  to  what  you  consider  to  be  an  objective,  correct 
eA'aluation  of  the  situation. 

I  would  like  to  distinguish  liere  between  two  things  for  the  sake  of 
r-larity.  It  was  always  uncomfortable — I  think  any  Communist  would 
tell  von  this  if  he  were  talking  about  it — to  be  a  member  of  the  Com- 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1233 

numist,  Pai-ly,  because  it  was  hard  work,  and  il  was  a  pretty  dedicated 
proposition.  It  wasn't  a  populai-  tliino-  to  <lo,  and,  you  know,  if  you 
did  it,  usually,  you  wei'e  tied  up. 

But  we  are  all  used  to  putting  up  with  certain  curbs  on  our  individ- 
ual freedom,  w-hatever  oro-anization  or  situation  we  find  ourselves  in, 
and  so,  even  thouffb  one  might  not  like  the  idea  of  being  limited  in  the 
expressions  of  one's  opinions,  you  will  put  ujo  with  it  if  you  felt  that 
t  he  goals  justified  it,  if  you  felt  that  over  all  the  goals  were  fine,  good, 
luuuan  goals. 

1  don't  mean  to  paint  a  comparison,  but  you,  for  exam})le,  as  an 
office  holder,  certainly  submit  every  day  to  certain  kinds  of  disciplines. 
You  don't  say  everything  you  feel  like  saying  as  an  individual  or  do 
everything  you  feel  like  doing.  There  are  problems  of  good  manners, 
l)roblems  of  getting  along  with  other  people,  problems  of  this  kind  of 
thing. 

So  that  mere  impatience  or  annoyance  with  this  kind  of  difficulty,  I 
don't  think  woidd  have  been  enough  to  make  me  leave  the  Communist 
Party. 

There  had  to  be  a  change  of  belief  as  to  how  history  was  moving 
and  as  to  what  direction  I  as  an  individual  wanted  to  see  history 
moving. 

There  was  a  time  wdien  I  did  feel,  although  I  didn't  think  socialism 
or  communism,  if  it  came  in  the  United  States,  would  resemble  that 
in  the  Soviet  Union,  you  know,  to  the  letter;  there  was  a  time,  never- 
theless, when  I  did  feel  that  we  w^ere  caught  in  the  world  today  in  a 
struggle  between  reaction  and  progress,  and  to  me  at  that  time  a  move, 
as  I  saw  it,  forward  to  socialism  and  communism  represented  progress. 

I  felt  that  history  couldn't  stand  still,  and  if  we  didn't  move  for- 
ward we  Avould  move  back,  and  like  a  lot  of  people  I  felt,  for  example, 
back  in  the  1930's,  that  commmiism  by  its  behavior  in  the  League  of 
Nations,  by  its  general  philosophy,  represented  the  only  effective  al- 
ternative to  fascism,  and  I  hated  fascism,  and  there  is  no — I  made  up 
my  mind  wdiich  way  I  wanted  to  go. 

I  don't  believe  that  that  is  the  choice  with  which  we  are  confronted 
any  more.  I  am  not  sui-e  whether  I  believe  that  it  ever  was,  but,  at 
any  rate,  at  the  moment  I  am  convinced  that  the  big  issues  for  all  of 
us  today  are  the  problems  of  the  preservation  of  peace  and  retention 
of  the  greatest  freedom  of  the  individual  that  we  can  possibly  retain, 
because  I  feel  that  that  is  part  and  parcel  of  making  life  rich  and  full 
and  meaningful  to  the  human  race. 

If  that  is  true,  then  to  get  bogged  down  in  hot  and  heavy  battling 
over,  you  know,  the  Socialist  form  of  economy — this  is  the  capital 
fomi  of  economy,  and  letting  this  develop  into  a  kind  of  life  and  death 
struggle,  which  could  lead  to  a  third  world  war  if  it  were  not  confined 
to  debate,  or  within  this  comiti*y,  which  could  lead  to  Americans  los- 
ing trust  in  each  other — and  shoving  each  other  instead  of  commimi- 
cating  with  each  other,  then  I  think  that  is  dangerous,  and  I  think  that 
is  putting  one's  emphasis  on  issues  which  history  has  already  moved 
away  from. 

It  is  my  impression,  frankly,  that  the  Soviet  Union  and  the  United 
States  both  have  tremendous  problems.  I  think  their  problem,  where 
individual  liberty  is  concerned,  is  greater  than  our  problem  here.  I 
think  we  have  more  of  it  here.    But  we  both  have  it. 


1234    INVESTIGATION  OF   COMIMITNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN   CALIFORNIA 

I  think  both  countries  are  concerned  with  the  kind  of  problem  that 
seems  to  be  bothering  all  outstanding  thinkers  today,  how  can  the 
individual  remain  free  in  a  world  which  is  becoming  highly  popu- 
lated, highly  technicalized,  industrialized,  urbanized,  so  that  it  is  so 
easy  for  the  individual  to  feel  that  he  counts  for  nothing,  but  only  the 
elite  governs  his  country,  and  nothing  he  does  can  make  any  diU'erence. 

Mr.  Moulder.  May  I  interrupt  ^    Is  that  an  answer  to  the  (piestion '? 

Mr.  WiRiN.  It  is  a  little.    May  I  speak  to  the  witness  for  a  moment  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  And  give  some  legal  and  other  advice? 

I  reminded  him  what  the  question  was. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  hadn't  forgotten,  but  I  apologize  if  I  have  been 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  find  the  testimony  extremely  interesting. 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  I  hope  the  committee — I  think  the  committee  under- 
stands that  these  are  such  complex  questions  that  if  you  begin  to 
oversimplify,  it  is  very  easy 

Mr.  WiRiN.  However,  he  is  a  lawyer  and  I  am  a  lawyer  and  Mr. 
Jackson  is  a  lawyer.    The  question  is 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  am  no  lawyer,  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Xo? 

^Ir.  Jackson.  We  have  been  ai'guing  all  these  years.  A  lot  of  law- 
has  rubbed  oil'  on  me.     But  I  am  no  lawyer. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  You  certainly  sound  like  one,  like  the  best  of  them,  I 
mean. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Mr.  Tavenner,  if  I  may,  to  return  to  what,  after  all, 
was  the 

Mr.  Moulder.  Yes,  let's  tiy  to  be  as  directly  responsive  to  the  ques- 
tion as  you  can. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  To  return  to  what  I  think  was  the  essence  of  the 
question,  you  can  see  that,  feeling  as  I  did,  I  felt  that  the  Connnunist 
Party  had  lost  its  relationship  to  reality  in  America,  if  it  evei-  had 
it,  and  in  the  world,  and  was  bound  to  become  more  and  more  an 
ineffective  set  of  peoj^le  who,  no  matter  how  sincere,  simi)ly  didn't 
understand  the  times  in  which  they  were  living,  and  that  this  w^as 
going  to  lead  continuallj^  to  seek  to  mount  campaigns  and  to  take 
positions  wdiich  w-ere,  in  some  cases,  academic  and  in  others,  in  my 
opinion,  provocative.  They  weren't  going  to  win  adherence  to  their 
l)osition.  If  anything,  they  Avere  going  to  alienate  })eople  from  even 
those  parts  of  their  program  wnth  which  generally  most  Americans 
wouldn't  disagree  and 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  it  actually  ham])ered  good  causes? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  This  was  part  of  my  conclusion,  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  I  gather  from  your  statement  that  you  also 
disagreed  violently  with  the  Communist  Party's  exercising  of  control 
over  the  individual,  that  the  individual  didn't  have  the  freedom  of 
action  Avithin  the  Communist  Party  that  you  thought  he  should  have? 

Mr.  WiRiN.  "Violent"  as  a  figure  of  speech,  I  take  it?  I  don't 
understand  the  question. 

Mr.  Taat':nxer.  I  think  the  witness  understands. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  All  right. 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  Let  me  try  to  answer  it  as  I  understand  it,  and  if  I 
have  misunderstood  then  you  will  correct  me. 


INVKSTIGATJON    OF    COMMUNIS'!'    AC'iniTlKS    IN    CALIFORNIA     123') 

I  linve  jili'pndy  in<lic;i(ofl  llial  I  reel  that  hinnnii  hciiifrs  pnl  up  with 
curbs  on  (heir  iudividunl  tVccdoui  in  oA'crylhiu^- 1  hey  do;  in  tlu' slioj)  I 
dou'l  talk  back  (o  the  foicman  whenexei-  I  feel  like  it.  1  want  to  keep 
my  job. 

itowever,  I  am  not  tryinii-  to  split  hairs.  It  is  (juite  obvious  that  in 
an  orii-anization  like  tlie  Conununist  Puily  the  deoree  of  conformity 
which  tends  to  be  produced  «roes  far  beyond  that,  as  most  oi-jLjaniza- 
tions,  and  mi^ht  be  likened  only  to  the  most  dedicated  religious 
groups  or  other  moral  crusades. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  They  called  it  democratic  centralism,  didn't  they? 

Mr.  PocLsox.  There  is  a  procedure  theoretically,  and  actually  it  is 
adhered  to  in  the  letter,  whereby  any  member  of  the  party  makes  with 
a  dili'erence  in  the  groui)  of  which  he  is  a  member,  and  if  he  isn't 
satisfied  with  the  outcome  of  the  decision  there,  he  can  go  an  echelon 
higher,  and  all  the  way  up  to  the  central  committee,  or  whatever  it  is 
now,  and  the  national  convention  of  the  party. 

But,  in  practice,  eA'en  when  you  adhere  to  this,  the  letter,  it  does 
place  the  dissenter  in  the  position  of  being  an  individual  bucking 
committees  or  grouj)s  which,  by  and  large,  do  adhere  around  an  estab- 
lished line  or  position,  and  there  is  a  ban  on  what  is  called  forming 
a  faction,  which  means  a  group  in  opposition  to  an  established  policy. 

And  my  experience  has  indicated  to  me  that  nnless  you  are  going  to 
form  groups  in  opposition  to  established  policies,  you  have  no  way  of 
changing  policy.     You  have  effectively  stifled  opposition. 

Mr.  TA\Ti:NNER.  You  were  aware  even  before  the  holding  of  the  Six- 
teenth National  Convention  of  the  Communist  Party  in  New  York  in 
P^ebruary  1957  of  the  situation  of  Joseph  Clark,  the  editor-in-chief  of 
the  Daily  Worker,  and  also  John  Gates,  weren't  you? 

Mr.  PorLsox.  Seems  to  me  Gates  was  the  editor-in-chief  and  Clark 
was  a  foreign  correspondent  and  columnist. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  Correct. 

Mr.  PouLSOx-^.  May  I  confer  with  my  attorney  ? 

Mr.  Tavexx'er.  My  question  was  whether  you  were  familiar  with 
this  situation  in  which  they  found  themselves  in  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  PouLSOX'.  I  was  reading  at  that  time  not  only  the  People's 
Woi'ld  but  also,  when  I  got  ahold  of  copies  of  it,  the  Daily  Worker, 
and  the  Sunday  Worker,  and  1  was  reading  their  statements  and  edi- 
torials, and  I  was  aware  of  the  situation  in  which  they  found  them- 
selves, yes. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  When  you  objected  to  a  Conmiunist  Party  line, 
you  immediately  became  a  revisionist? 

Mr.  PouLsox.  Yes,  that's  true.  It  is  hard  for  me  to  get  too  indig- 
nant, because  I  was  guilty  so  often  on  the  same  thing.  1  called  other 
people  revisionists  and  got  self-righteous  and  called  them  names,  but 
it  is  a  fact 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  The  point  of  it  is,  you  reacted  unfavorably,  although 
it  took  some  time  to  translate  that  into  real  action  on  your  part,  to  the 
lack  of  freedom  that  the  individual  had  within  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  Yes,  that  is  true. 

Mr.  Tavexxer,  And  that  was  one  of  the  practices  of  tlie  (^onunu- 
nist  Party  which  caused  you  finally  to  break  with  it? 


1236    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTWITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  PouLSox.  That  was  extremely  uncomfortable,  and  I  disliked  it 
very  much.  But  I  have  to  say  in  honesty  that  I  don't  know  whether 
that  alone  would  have  been  enough  to  get  me  out  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  No,  I  didn't  mean  to  indicate  that  alone 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  point  you  raised^ — maybe  I  got  an  erroneous 
impression — but  you  favored,  if  any  changes  were  to  be  made  in  our 
form  of  Government,  that  they  be  achieved  through  our  constitutional 
processes;  did  I  understand  you  to  believe  or  to  understand  that  in 
the  Communist  Party  they  did  not  or  do  not  wish  to  follow  that 
procedure  ? 

Mr.  PouLSOx.  Sir,  it  was  always  my  belief,  and  I  am  being  fairly 
honest,  that  the  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States,  while  I  was  a 
member  of  it,  believed  in  following  constitutional  processes,  and,  to  the 
best  of  my  knowledge  and  belief,  this  was  the  opinion  of  the  party,  and 
certainly  was  my  opinion. 

Mr.  Moulder.  I  got  the  impression  that  was  your  opinion,  but  not 
that  of  the  party. 

Mr.  PouLSox.  No,  but  I  had  this  feeling,  that  some  of  the  membere 
of  the  party  had  evidently  lost  faith  in  these  constitutional  processes 
to  the  extent  that,  while  even  in  their  own  mind  they  might  say  that 
they  still  believed  in  them,  they  lacked  the  conviction  which  would 
enable  them  in  the  American  arena  to  try  to  accomplish  the  changes  in 
that  way. 

Of  course,  I  thought  the  result  was,  they  just  weren't  going  to  get 
anywhere.  It  wasn't  that  I  was  afraid  or  thought  that  these  people 
were  going  to  try  to  organize  the  forcible  overthrow  of  the  Govern- 
ment; I  just  felt  that  they  were  accomplishing  nothing  and  couldn't 
accomplish  anything  because  of  their  lack  of  real  w^orking  faith  in  the 
processes  by  which  we  thrash  out  political  questions  in  America. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Well,  that  arrives  to  about  the  same  conclusion  that 
I  made;  that  was  your  opinion  that  you  had  of  the  members  of  the 
(^ommunist  Party. 

Mr.  PouLsox.  I  am  not  trying  to  hedge,  sir. 

]\[r.  Moulder.  I  understand. 

Mr.  PouLsox.  But  the  part  is  that  I  do  not  happen  to  agree  with  the 
committee  that  the  ("ommunist  Party  is  an  illegal  conspiracy,  and 
therefore  I  can't  pennit  myself  to  be  put  in  a  position  of  seeming  to 
agree  with  that. 

Mr.  jMoi'ldek.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Let's  add  a  little  something  to  the  record.  That  is 
not  a  determination  made  solely  by  this  committee.  This  is  a  deter- 
mination that  has  been  made  by  all  three  branches  of  the  Federal 
Government,  and  the  chairman  reminds  me,  on  several  occasions  by  the 
Supreme  Court  of  the  ITnited  States.  So  it  is  not — I  want  the  record 
to  show — we  didn't  think  up  this  idea  that  this  was  a  conspiracy. 

Mr.  PouLsox.  I  didn't  mean  to  indicate 

Mr.  Jacksox'.  I  realize. 

Mr.  PouLSox.  I  happen  to  feel  that  the  court  decisions  are  still 
somewhat  contradictory.  In  the  Schneiderman  case  the  Supreme 
Coiu't  held  it  was  possible  to  be  a  Communist  and  that  this  was  com- 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1237 

pletely  compatible  with  believing  in  constitutional  changes  in  the 
United  States  and  wasn't  illegal  in  itself  per  se. 

It  is  a  muddy  picture.     I  wish  it  weren't  so  muddy. 

Mr.  Jackson.  We  operate  as  a  committee  in  this  area  at  the  behest 
of  the  House  of  Eepresentatives  and  the  Congress  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  understand  that. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Which  is  a  fact  that  is  frequently  overlooked  for  one 
reason  or  another.  We  are  not  self-appointed  judges  to  determine 
whether  or  not  it  is  a  conspiracy.  Our  job  is  to  attempt  to  find  out  to 
the  extent  we  can  whether  or  not  it  is.     That  is  our  sole  function. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  you  wish  the  question  were  not  so  muddy  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  am  not  talking  about  your  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  I  understand,  the  question  of  the  validity  of  the 
Communist  Party.  This  committee  has  never  gone  to  the  extent  of 
recommending  so  far  that  the  Communist  Party  be  outlawed,  but 
what  would  be  your  position  on  that?  Do  you  think  it  should  be, 
in  light  of  what  you  know  of  it  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  In  the  light  of  what  I  know  of  the  Communist  Party, 
as  far  as  the  last  two  years  are  concerned,  very  little,  but  I  don't 
know  of  any  reason  to  suppose  that  it  has  changed  very  essentially. 
In  the  light  of  what  I  know,  I  feel  that  while  there  are  certain  con- 
sequences that  no  constitution  is  going  to  protect  you  from,  if  you 
espouse  an  unpopular  idea — this  follows — that  by  and  large  the  Com- 
munist Party  is  composed  of  sincere  men  and  women  who  are  try- 
ing to  be  patriotic,  although  their  opinion  as  to  what  is  patriotic  may 
be  at  loggerheads  with  even  that  of  most  other  Americans,  and  I  feel 
that  they  shoidd  not  be  outlawed. 

Moreover,  I  feel  that  the  attempt  to  outlaw  the  party  in  fact,  if 
not  in  law,  de  facto  if  not  de  jure,  by  making  it  very  uncomfortable, 
economically  and  in  terms  of  social  pressure,  to  be  a  member;  I  feel 
that  the  attempt  to  do  that  is  impractical. 

I,  for  example,  suffered  a  lot  of  consequences  from  being  a  Com- 
munist when  I  remained  one,  but  these  sanctions  didn't  drive  me  out 
of  the  Communist  Party.  I  am  normal  and  I  am  human  and  I  am 
nervous  about  adverse  economic  consequences  that  might  affect  my 
family  and  so  on,  but,  nevertheless,  they  didn't  drive  me  out  and  I 
don't  think  they  would  drive  anybody  else  out,  and  they  may  even 
have  the  effect,  you  know — here  is  where  American  tradition  comes 
into  play  again.  Somebody  says  to  you,  "You  can't  say  that,"  and 
one's  reaction  is,  by  golly,  I  am  going  to  say  it. 

It  is  not  an  altogether  bad  thing.  Sometimes  it  can  be,  lead  to 
adolescent  behavior,  childish  behavior.  You  let  yourself  get  pro- 
voked. But  it  is  a  kind  of  stubborn  belief  that  everybody  has  a  right 
to  his  opinion  and  to  speak  his  piece. 

]\Ir.  IMouLDER.  What  is  the  next  question  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  stated  that  your  disagreement  with  the  Com- 
munist Party,  exercise  of  control  was  one  of  the  reasons  tliat  caused 
you  to  leave  the  Connnunist  Party.  What  other  policy  of  the  Com- 
munist Parly  was  it  witli  Avhidi  you  objected  and  which  i)layed  a  part 
in  your  leaving  the  party  ?     So  far  you  have  onh'  stated  one. 


48192 — 60 — pt.  3- 


1238    INVESTIGATION  OF  CORIMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  felt  there  were  several  fields — I  think  it  is  a  little 
too  close  now — I  felt  there  were  several  fields  into  which  I  can  break 
down  n\\  objections,  and  of  conrse  they  related — these  things  always 
did — I  felt  that  the  Commiuiist  Party  had  become  too  arrogant,  too 
self-righteous  in  its  relation  to  other  groups  of  Americans;  that  it 
didn't  have  proper  regard  for  or  respect  for  or  understanding  of  the 
opinions  of  Republicans,  Democrats,  the  Negro  people  and  their 
organizations,  the  Jewish  people  and  their  organizations,  the  trade 
unions.  I  felt  that  it  was  insisting  on  its  own  dogmatic  interpreta- 
tion and  was  therefore  presuming,  like  a  government  in  exile,  for 
example,  as  one  writer  put  it,  to  hand  down — condescending  to  these 
other  groups  of  Americans  what  kind  of  a  position  they  should  take, 
and  I  thought  this  was  not  only  self-defeating,  but  flatly  Avrong. 

This  was  in  the  field  of  its  relations  with  domestic  groups. 

Then,  with  regard  to  the  fight  for  peace  in  the  world — and  I  don't 
think  there  is  much  question  but  Avhat  the  Communists  that  I  knew 
wanted  peace — there  was  always  a  disposition  to  explain  away  any 
show  of  power  politics  by  the  Soviet  Union  as  somehow  or  other  a 
great  blow  for  peace. 

Now,  our  country  sometimes  plays  power  politics ;  all  governments 
do;  and  I  get  a  little  ashamed  when  we  are  hypercritical  about  the 
things  we  do,  that  I  thought  that  a  movement  which  prided  itself  on 
being  honest  and,  you  know,  very  morally  highminded,  ought  not  to 
confuse  itself  by  confusing  what  seemed  to  me  to  be  power  politics 
with  unselfish  work  for  peace,  and  I  am  referring  to  a  whole  number 
of  things. 

I  felt  that  any  statement  by  government  leaders  of  the  Soviet  Union 
or  the  United  States — I  am  talking  now  about  the  Commmiist  Party 
beliefs — which  were  bellicose  or  provocative  were  dangerous  in  to- 
day's world,  and  I  felt  that  if  they  wanted  to  help  the  cause  of  peace 
they  ought  to  confine  themselves  to  peaceful  moves  and  peaceful  state- 
ments, and  even  might  sometimes  have  a  slap  in  the  face  now  and 
then  and  not  be  provoked  by  it.  I  thought  that  that  would  be  very 
much  truer  of  a  government  which  wanted,  above  all  things,  to 
preserve  world  peace,  and  I  felt  that  the  refusal  or  inability  of  other 
Communists,  some  of  them,  at  any  rate,  to  understand  the  actions 
of  the  Soviet  Government  in  what  I  felt  was  an  objective  and  critical 
way  had  an  adverse  effect  on  the  reputation  of  Communists  in  the 
eyes  of  other  people,  and  had  an  adverse  effect  on  their  own  clarity 
of  thought. 

I  felt  that  they  were  kidding  themselves. 

Then  take  a  particular  thing  like  the  Negro  question  or,  you  know, 
the  struggle  of  the  Negro  people  in  the  United  States  for  full  and 
equal  citizenship  without  discrimination.  I  happen  to  be  one  of  those 
who  think  that  the  Negro  people  have  been  doing  a  magnificent  job 
on  this  score  for  themselves.  I  think  they  have  shown  great  restraint; 
they  have  shown  tremendous  knowledge  of  how  not  to  be  provoked, 
and  nevertheless  make  their  own  point  and  make  it  with  increasing 
effectiveness,  and  yet  I  felt  that  the  Communist  Party  was  still  trying 
to  advise  in  a  manner  I  felt  was  ]Dresumptuous,  and  now  I  think  it 
was  presumptuous  all  the  tioie  T  was  in  the  Communist  Party,  in  some 
re.sperts  and  some  degrees. 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES   IN   CALIFORNIA     1239 

Mr.  Moulder.  You  think  they  were  trying  to  advise;  you  mean  also 
agitate,  to  encourage  racial  strife?  The  Communist  Party  lias  done 
that. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  The  Communist  Party  believes  a  certain  course  of 
action  is  a  correct  one,  unless  some  of  its  members  are  too  tired  or  too 
nervous  or  inept;  it  tries  to  forward  this  course  of  action  by  agitation, 
by  publication,  by  statement,  and  actually  by  participating  in  cam- 
paigns, and  so  on. 

Mr.  Moulder,  You  made  a  very  voluminous  statement,  you  could 
write  a  book  about  when  you  referred  to  it  as  a  government  in  exile. 
I  think  that  is  very  descriptive. 

Mr.  PouLso>r.  I  think  it  is  a  descriptive  statement  for  the  ponder- 
osity of  Communist  Party  statements  on  occasion.  I  can't  claim  credit 
for  the  phrase. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  imagine  we  could  probably,  Mr.  Poulson,  find  a 
great  many  more  areas  of  disagreement  than  we  could  find  in  agree- 
ment, but  I  was  particularly  impressed  by  your  reference  to  the 
Negroes  having  met  their  own  problems  in  this  country.  The  prob- 
lems are  many,  and  many  of  them  we  don't  like,  and  we  see  no  reason 
for  their  existence. 

There  was  a  colloquy  here  yesterday  between  one  of  the  witnesses 
and  myself,  and  I  thought  afterwards  that  here  in  the  city  of  Los 
Angeles  there  was  given  one  of  the  finest  demonstrations  in  the  Los 
Angeles  Memorial  Coliseum  when  93,000  members  of  every  race,  every 
creed,  eveiy  color,  turned  out  to  do  honor  to  a  Negro  baseball  catcher. 
That  was  a  great  demonstration. 

Wliat  we  like  to  think  of  as  the  American  spirit  was  demonstrated 
there  better  than  in  any  single  thing  that  has  happened  in  this  com- 
munity for  a  long  time. 

The  records  of  this  committee  are  replete  with  testimony  fi-om 
Negroes  who  have  been  in  the  Communist  Party  and  who  have  come 
out  of  it  frustrated  and  embittered  by  what  they  found,  as  opposed  to 
what  they  had  hoped  to  find  when  they  went  in.  I  think  that  because 
of  the  many  difficulties  which  the  Negroes  have  experienced  in  this 
country,  that  the  record  they  have  achieved  in  handling  many  of  their 
own  problems  is  a  remarkable  one,  and  I  was  very  happy  to  hear  you 
say  so. 

Mr.  PouLsox.  I  assume  you  would  agree  also  with  me  that  we  will 
be  very  happy  Avhen  the  day  comes  when  no  Negro  membei-  or  any 
other  such  minority  group  is  ever  subjected  to  indignity  or  discrimina- 
tion because  of  his  color  or  his  race. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  a.m  sure  that  all  of  the  members  of  the  committee 
would  be  in  full  accord  with  you  on  that  point. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Our  records  show  that  even  though  the  Communist 
Party  has  concentrated  its  attentioii  on  the  Negro  ])eople  or  groups 
in  this  countiy,  has  tried  to  prey  upon  the  prejudice  and  so-called 
discrimination,  it  has  had  less  success  with  the  Negroes  in  that  respect 
than  any  other. 

Mr.  Poulson.  I  don't  want  to 

Mr.  Moulder.  Let  us  not  prolong  the  discussion. 

The  next  question,  please. 


1240    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  would  like  to  say,  if  I  may,  that  I  don't  subscribe  to 
the  view  that  Communists  have  been  trying  to  use  Negroes.  In  my 
opinion,  there  has  been  a  sincere  desire  to  help.  I  feel  it  has  often 
been  misguided  and  misdirected  and  has  led  to  the  pursuing  of  tactics 
which  could  easily  enough  be  interpreted  as 

Mr,  Moulder.  We  have  evidence  where  they  have  deliberately  agi- 
tated trouble  and  created  trouble  in  the  guise  of  racial  discrimination, 
which  they  themselves  have  created,  in  order  to  agitate  and  stir  up 
trouble  with  the  Negro  people. 

Proceed  with  the  next  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  there  any  other  objective  of  the  Communist 
Party  which  played  a  part  in  your  resignation  from  it? 

Mr.  PouLsox.  Well,  specifically,  as  you  know,  following  the  Twen- 
tieth Congress  in  the  Soviet  Union,  where  that  famous  secret  non- 
secret  report  was  made,  there  was  an  awful  lot  of  discussion  in  the 
left  wing  in  this  counti-y,  and  even  in  liberal  and  conservative 
circles,  an  attempt  to  evaluate,  what  does  this  mean.  A  lot  of  people, 
some  of  whom  I  suppose  have  subsequently  left  the  Communist 
Party — others  of  whom  may  not  have — began  to  develop  the  idea  of 
trying  to  create  a  different  kind  of  radical  movement  in  the  United 
States,  which  could  give  some  kind  of  leadership,  as  they  felt  in  the 
ideological  fight  to  win  the  American  people's  thinking. 

An  awful  lot  of  discussion  took  place  on  the  question.  Well,  should 
there  be  a  new  kind  of  Communist  Party  or  should  there  be  a  new  kind 
of  Socialist  Party,  or  should  there  be  a  new  kind  of  Progressive 
Party,  or  what  in  the  world  should  there  be. 

But  I  came  to  the  conclusion  that  all  of  these  proposals  were  ineffec- 
tive and  stillborn,  and  missed  the  main  point,  which  was  if  you  want 
to  look  for  radicalism  in  American  life  you  look  for  it  in  the  same 
places  that  you  find  diehardism ;  you  find  radicalism  in  the  Republi- 
can, in  the  Democratic  Parties ;  you  find  it  in  the  Protestant  Churches ; 
you  find  it  everywhere. 

In  other  words,  if  you  want  to  find  people  who  have  advanced  un- 
derstanding and  the  need  to  fight  for  peace  in  the  world  today,  you 
can't  look  to  any  one  sector  of  Americans  to  find  this;  you  find  it 
everywhere,  and  if  you  want  to  find  people  who  are  terribly  and 
deeply  concerned  with  human  freedom,  you  find  it  not  only  among 
radicals,  but  you  find  it  among  people  whom  radicals  sometimes  call 
reactionaries,  very  often  a  wellspring  of  the  motivation  of  people 
that  radicals  call  reactionaries,  is  their  deep  concern  with  human 
freedom. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Let's  proceed  with  the  question,  get  off  this  discourse 
of  philosophy. 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  I  am  sorry.  What  I  meant  was  that  I  just  couldn't 
agree  that  there  was  any  effective  role  in  America  today  for  an  or- 
ganization which  could  be  called  a  vanguard  organization  or  radical 
organization.  I  don't  object  to  other  people  being  in  it.  They  have 
a  right.     But  not  for  me. 

Mr,  Tavenner,  There  has  been  a  very  strong  indication,  in  fact,  it 
can  be  documented,  that  an  effort  was  to  be  made  to  organize  the 
people  who  withdrew  from  the  Communist  Party  into  another  or- 
ganization of  some  type,  which  would  still  continue  to  cooperate  with 
the  Communist  Party  in  its  objectives.    That  note  was  sounded  in  a 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMJVIUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1241 

list  of  grievances  signed  by  22  people,  members  of  the  Communist 
Party  here  in  Los  Angeles.  Do  you  Know  anything  about  that  move- 
ment ? 

Mr,  PouLSON".  I  only  know  that  what  you  say  may  be  true,  simply 
on  the  basis  of  the  fact  that  I  know  that  there  were  people  who  were 
discontent  with  the  way  the  Communist  Party  was  being  run,  but  in 
general  felt  that  there  might  be  some  other  way  of  forwarding  its 
objectives.  I  don't  know  at  firsthand.  Nobody  has  ever  asked  me 
to  join  such  a  group,  maybe  because  I  have  made  my  disinterest  very 
clear  from  the  start.     I  don't  know. 

I  have  no  direct  first-hand  knowledge  or  even  second-hand  hearsay 
knowledge  of  the  existence  of  any  such  group  or  any  attempt  to  form 
it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  been  aware,  since  severing  your  connec- 
tion with  the  Communist  Party,  or  prior  to  your  leaving,  of  an  effort 
to  avoid  the  provisions  of  law  relating  to  membership  in  a  Communist 
Party  group  by  withdrawing  as  organizational  members  but  still  being 
affiliated  with  the  Communist  Party  in  a  way  to  carry  out  their  Com- 
munist Party  duties  in  every  way  except  that  of  being  members? 

Mr.  PoTJLSON.  Mr.  Tavenner,  you  know  that  two  horse  race  players 
can  read  the  same  form  sheet  and  then  decide  to  put  their  money  on 
different  horses.  You  can  make  two  interpretations  of  the  same 
thoughts.  I  know  of  instances  where  people  who  probably  did  not 
change  their  personal  inner  convictions — I  want  to  be  consistent — • 
Let's  say  I  know  of  an  instance  where  I,  not  having  changed  my 
inner  personal  convictions,  nevertheless  ceased  to  be  a  member  of  the 
Commmiist  Party.  I  became  a  member  later.  This  was  when  I  went 
into  the  Armed  Forces  of  the  United  States. 

Now,  as  far  as  I  was  concerned,  this  was  a  perfectly  sincere  and 
practical  move.  When  you  are  fighting  a  war,  you  know,  for  your 
country,  and  you  are  a  soldier  in  an  army,  you  have  one  allegiance, 
that  is,  to  the  Army.  You  may  have,  you  know,  moral  feelings  about 
how  to  personally  behave  and  so  on,  but  you  certainly — you  can't  take 
orders  from  two  places.     It  is  out  of  the  question  and 

Mr.  Ta\tenxer.  You  thought  the  two  things  would  be  inconsistent  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  felt  that  at  that  time  it  might  be  open  to  misin- 
terpretation, at  any  rate.  It  might  be  thought  by  some  people  to  be 
disloyal  if  I  were  a  Communist,  and  I  simply  didn't  want  to  get  into 
that  situation.  I  wanted  to  see  that  war  won  and  I  wanted  to  take  a 
full  part  in  it  and  I  left  the  Communist  Party. 

I  think  this  is  the  kind  of  situation  such  as  you  are  describing,  and 
I  think  many  people  might  feel  that  I  did  it  for  subterfuge,  dishonest 
motives,  and  I  couldn't  prevent  their  feeling  that  way. 

Mr.  Ta\tennee.  Yes,  but  I  had  reference  to  those  persons  who  with- 
drew as  actual  members  of  the  Communist  Party  but  who  continued 
in  their  Communist  Party  work  and  support  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  At  this  point,  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  want  to  be  careful  to 
be  consistent  in  the  position  that  I  am  taking  here. 

Mr.  Ta^'enner.  Now,  it  isn't  a  question  of  being  consistent ;  it  is  a 
question  of  giving  us  facts. 

]\Ir.  PouLSON.  I  don't  want  to  talk  about  my  associations  with  other 
individuals,  and  if  I  were  to  say  that  I  have  specific  knowledge  of  some 
such  person  other  than  myself  in  such  an  act,  this  would  be  talking 


1242    IN\'ESTIGATION  OF  COMJVIUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

about  my  associations  with  other  individuals,  and  I  frankly  am  not  at 
all  clear  as  to  what  extent  I  can  g-eneralize,  without  spoiling  my  con- 
sistency in  this  matter. 

Mr.  TA^^ENNER.  Well,  that  is  a  very  vital  question  in  this  hearing. 
We  are  attempting  here,  among  other  things,  to  determine  whether  or 
not  the  definition  of  membership,  as  contained  in  the  laws  relating  to 
subversion,  should  be  tightened,  whether  or  not  the  conditions  set  forth 
in  Article  5  of  the  Communist  Control  Act  of  1954  as  to  wliat  the 
courts  should  consider  on  this  question  should  be  enlarged, 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  understand  the  purpose. 

Mr.  Tavenker.  So  the  question  I  am  asking  you  is  very  vital  to  that 
issue,  and  we  want  to  know  how  it  is  that  persons  who  ai-e  members  of 
the  Communist  Party  can  withdraw  membership  and  still  cooperate, 
aid  and  support  the  organization  in  every  way  except  that  of  being 
technical  members.     That  is  the  question  that  I  am  asking. 

Mr,  PouLSON,  I  recognize  that  the  thing  you  are  describing  is  per- 
fectly possible  of  being  done. 

Mr,  Moulder.  Do  you  have  any  knowledge  or  infoimation  about  it, 
of  it  actually  existing  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  But  even  if  I  were  talking  about  otlier  pei'sons,  I 
don't  know,  in  all  sincerity,  how  one  could  decide,  how  one  could  crawl 
inside  somebody's  mind  and  know  whether  they  "were  sincere  or 

Mr.  Taa^enner.  You  continually  come  back  to  that.  I  am  not  talk- 
ing about  thoughts  or  beliefs.  I  said  action  and  support,  active  sup- 
port,    I  am  not  talking  about  beliefs  at  all. 

INIr.  PouLSON.  Well,  I  am  not  trying  to  sidestep  you  at  all,  either. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  come  right  to  the  direct  question  of  continu- 
ing to  support  the  Communist  Party  in  its  activities. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  would  like  to  consult  with  my  counsel  for  just  a 
moment,  if  I  may. 

I  wanted  to  get  my  counsel's  advice  at  this  moment,  because  I  made 
it  clear  at  the  outset  that  I  am  willing  to  talk  about  myself,  and  I  am 
doing  it  and  have  done  it,  and  I  feel  that  this  question  involves  the 
conduct  of  others,  and  that  I  had  better  decline  to  answer  the  question 
on  the  grounds  that  I  laid  out  at  the  outset. 

jNIr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  no  recourse  except  to  suggest 
you  direct  him  to  answer. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  will  be  directed  to  answer.  I  am  not 
clear  as  to  wdiat  grounds  you  claimed  as  a  reason  for  declining  to 
answer. 

Mr.  Poulson.  At  the  outset^ 

Mr.  Moulder.  Did  you  claim  the  provisions,  invoking  the  first  and 
fifth  amendments  of  the  Constitution  ? 

Mr.  PouLSOx,  I  think  that  I — with  regard  to  answering  questions 
about  associations  with  other  persons,  I  claim  the  protection  of  the 
first  and  the  fifth  amendments  to  the  Constitution,  From  time  to  time 
questions  of  pertinency  might  arise,  but  I  haven't  made — that  is  a  com- 
plicated thing, 

Mr,  Jackson,  You  decline  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
previously  stated? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  Yes. 

Mr.  M(tiri,DER.  The  witness  is  directed  (o  answer. 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA     1243 

Mr.  PoTiLsoisr.  T  must  rospectfully  inaintain,  I  decline  to  answer 
the  quest  ion. 

Mr.  MouLDEK.  The  committee  will  recess  for  a  period  of  5  minutes. 

( Short  recess  taken. ) 

Mr.  Moulder.  Proceed. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Mr.  Chairman,  Mr.  Tavenner,  the  members  of  the 
press  tell  me  that  they  understood  me  to  say  that  I  was  in  the  Armed 
Forces  for  2  days. 

Mr.  Moulder.  That  you  what  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  That  I  was  in  the  Armed  Forces  for  2  days. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  said  2  years, 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  thought  I  said  2  years. 

Mr.  Ta\'enner.  You  said  2  years. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  But  I  thought  anybody  can  make  a  slip  of  tliis  kind, 
and  I  thought  I  better 

Mr.  Jackson,  Anybody  who  can  stay  in  the  Armed  Forces  for  only 
2  days  is  a  genius. 

Mr.  WiRiN,  But  I  had  told  him  the  press  is  never  wrong. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Proceed  with  the  next  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  occupation  i 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  am  an  unsuccessful  writer  and  a  fairly  successful 
machinist,  to  earn  money  while  I  am  trying  to  be  a  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  ^Vhat  has  been  the  period  of  your  membership  in 
the  Commmiist  Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  initially  joined  the  Commmiist  Party  back  in  the 
midthirties.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  was  approximately  1935,  It  is 
difficult  to  be  sure. 

I  remained  in  the  Communist  Party  or  in  the  Communist  League 
or  considered  myself  a  full-fledged  member  of  the  Communist  move- 
ment from  then  until  the  time  I  told  you  I  left  the  party — that  was 
January'  1957,  with  the  exception  of  the  time  that  I  was  in  the  Armed 
Forces,  the  Army. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  connection  with  that,  during  the  time  that  you 
were  in  the  armed  services,  the  period  of  2  years,  did  you  continue  in 
any  way  in  your  Communist  Party  activity  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  The  answer  to  that  question  would  be  ""No,"  unless 
you  could  construe  trying  to  be  a  good  soldier  in  a  war  that  was  sup- 
ported by  the  Comnumist  Party  an  implementation  of  Communist 
Party — - 

Mr.  Jackson.  No.  I  had  reference  to  any  contact  with  any  Com- 
munist meeting,  Communist  gi'oups,  during  the  period  of  your 
servdce. 

Mr.  PouLSON,  Here  I  want  to  be  very  explicit,  because  I  don't  want 
to  be  in  a  position  of  perhaps  telling  an  untruth. 

Mr,  Jackson.  I  have  no  information.     I  don't  mean  to  entrap  you. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  was  informed  at  one  time  by  an  officer  in  the  divi- 
sion to  which  I  was  attached  overseas  that  it  was  their  understanding 
that  while  I  was  on  furlough  after  my  basic  training,  prior  to  being- 
shipped  overseas,  that  I  attended  a  young  Conununist  meeting.  At 
that  time  I  honestly  could  not  recall  having  done  so.  If  I  did,  I  am 
sure  it  was  because  people  I  was  ac(|uainted  with,  friends  of  mine, 
were  there,  and  I  was  liome  on  furlough,  and  it  was  a  chance  to  see 
them. 


1244    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

I^  didn't  have  any  organizational  significance,  with  the  possible 
exception  of  that.  The  answer  to  your  question  is  an  unqualified 
"No."'  I  had  no  contacts  or  organizational  relationship  at  any  time 
during  that  period  with  other  Communists  or  Communist  groups  or 
anything  of  the  kind. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Thanli  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  the  general  understanding  among  mem- 
bers of  the  Communist  Party  who  went  into  the  service,  one  of  the 
armed  services,  that  lie  should  during  that  period  of  time  be  considered 
as  a  non-member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  It  was  my  understanding  at  the  time  that  this  was 
the  normal  and  correct  thing  for  any  Communist  to  do. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  Did  the  Communist  Party  consider  it  as  a  militaiy 
furlough;  had  you  heard  it  spoken  of  in  that  way? 

Mr.  PoTJLSOJsr.  I  think  the  Communist  Party — I  never  heard  the 
phrase,  although  it  may  have  been  used ;  I  think  the  Communist  Party 
felt  that  everything  should  be  subordinated  to  seeing  that  the  Avar 
was  won,  and  that  it  would  be  foolish  and  unrealistic  for  Communists 
who  went  into  the  Army  to  try  to  function  in  any  way  which  might 
distract  from  their  purpose  of  being  there,  which  was  to,  you  know, 
carry  on  the  fight. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Of  what  unit  of  the  Communist  Party  were  you  a 
member  at  the  time  you  withdrew  in  1957  ? 

Mr.  PouLsox.  At  the  time  tliat  I 

Mr.  Ta\t3nner.  Withdrew  from  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  was  not  a  member  of  any  club  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tamsnner.  Were  you  a  member  at  large  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  suppose  you  would  call  me  a  member  at  large. 

Mr.  Ta-vtsxner.  How  long  had  you  been  a  member  at  large? 

INIr.  PouLSON.  I  think  it  must  have  been  about  2  years,  the  length 
of  time  that  I  was  a  reporter  for  the  Daily  People's  World,  and  keep- 
ing all  kinds  of  hours  on  that  job.  It  wasn't  practical  to  belong  to 
a  party  club. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Tell  the  committee  what  is  meant  by  memberehip 
at  large. 

Mr.  PouLSON".  In  this  instance,  all  that  was — what  was  meant  was 
that  I  was  considered  to  be  fulfilling  any  organizational  responsibili- 
ties that  I  might  have  by  the  kind  of  job  I  was  doing. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  you  began  your  membership  in  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  1935.     Wliere  was  that  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Cleveland,  Ohio. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  in  Cleveland  ? 

Mr.  PoTjLSON.  Well,  it  couldn't  have  been  too  long.  I  joined  when 
I  was  working  on  the  Cleveland  Press,  and  at  the  time,  if  you  will  re- 
call, it  was  the  time  of  the  Seattle  Post-Intelligencer  and  the  Milwau- 
kee Journal  strikes,  which  the  Newspaper  Guild  was  forming,  and 
then  already  in  September  1936 1  went  abroad  to  study. 

Before  that  I  spent,  if  I  recall,  I  spent  the  summer  on  vacation. 
So  that 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  name  of  the  group  or  the  name  of  the 
Communist  Party  cell  to  which  you  were  assigned  in  Cleveland  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  Believe  me,  I  haven't  the  faintest  idea.  This  is  hon- 
est.    It  is  like  another  life,  so  far  ago. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1245 

JMr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  say  you  were  a  member  at  large  for  a 
period  of  2  years.  "Wliat  club  or  gi'oup  of  the  Communist  Party 
was  it  that  you  were  a  member  of  prior  to  your  becoming  a  member 
at  large  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  I  was  a  member  of  a  club  or  a  group  which  centered 
generally  in  the  Bay  area,  and  I  don't  honestly  remember  whether  it 
had  a  name.     I  am  not  trying 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  period  of  2  years  when  you  were  a 
member  at  large,  who  was  tlie  superior  to  wiiom  you  had  to  report  as 
a  member  at  large  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Of  course,  Mr.  Tavenner,  on  this  question  I  must  de- 
cl  ine  to  answer  on  the  grounds  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  to  ask  for  direction. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  committee  directs  the  witness  to  answer  tlie 
question. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Again,  I  respectfully  decline  to  answer  the  question 
on  the  grounds  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  ask,  Mr.  Counsel,  wdiat  was  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  question  was,  the  name  of  his  superior  during 
the  period  of  time  that  he  was  a  member  at  large. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  name  of  his  superior  in  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  PoiTLSON.  Perhaps  it  will  clarify  the  record,  I  decline  to  an- 
swer on  the  grounds  of  the  first  and  fifth  amendments  of  the  Consti- 
tution and  possible  pertinency  of  the  question. 

Mr.  Moulder.  His  immediate  superior  ? 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  His  immediate  superior.  My  question  said,  the 
person  to  whom  he  reported  or  was  responsible  to. 

]Mr.  Wirin.  Would  you  permit  me  just  a  moment,  Mr.  Chairman,  to 
say  this :  That  if  a  witness  appears  here  and  is  willing  to  talk  about 
liimself  and  give  you  extended  information  concerning  himself,  and 
then  there  are  very  refined  and  technical  distinctions  drawn  as  to  when 
lie  waives  his  privilege,  that  is  why  so  many  persons  are  required  to 
take  the  absolute  fifth  and  give  no  information  at  all. 

It  seems  to  me  the  committee  is  confronted  with  a  very  serious  choice 
as  to  whether  it  is  going  to  be  technical  and  insist  upon  a  person  nam- 
ing others,  when  many  persons  of  conscience  refuse  to  do  that,  or  in- 
vite information  and  give  a  person  reasonable  freedom  from  going  to 
jail  in  doing  so. 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  make  a  comment :  I  think  there  is  considerable 
validity  in  what  counsel  has  to  say.  However,  I  think  that  it  is  per- 
fectly clear  that  the  menace,  if  any,  in  a  conspiracy  is  not  the  simple 
idea,  but  the  people  who  implement  the  idea.  The  committee  cannot 
leave  the  judgment  to  a  witness,  whether  or  not  any  given  individual 
is  or  is  not  a  conspirator,  or  whether  he  is  or  is  not  presently  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party.  It  is  the  people  who  take  the  idea  and  move 
forward  with  it  who  constitute  the  danger,  rather  than  the  simple 
idea  itself,  which,  without  people,  would  be  useless  and  void. 

For  that  reason  the  committee  has  taken  the  position  that  while 
such  information  as  is  being  presently  given  by  the  witness  is  valuable, 
growing  as  it  does  out  of  his  own  experience 


48192— 60— pt.  3- 


1246    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Moulder.  And  that  the  committee  doesn't  accept  the  proposi- 
tion that  the  witness  has  the  discretion  of  deciding  whether  or  not 

Mr.  WiRix.  I  am  not  making  that  contention. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Exactly,  moral  compunctions  may  be  and  are  a  very 
fine  thing. 

Mr.  WiRix.  They  are,  no  question  about  it. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  They  are  indeed,  but  tliey  do  not  constitute,  and  as 
I  think  you  will  agi'ee,  a  legal  ground  for  declining  to  answer  a 
question. 

Mr.  WiRix.  They  did  in  the  Watkins  case. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  For  my  part,  Mr.  Chairman,  because  we  have  reached 
the  crux  of  this  matter  in  the  declination  of  the  witness  to  answer, 
I  would  respectfully  request  that  the  witness  again  be  directed  to 
answer  the  question  as  to  what  individual  in  the  Communist  Party  he 
reported  his  activities;  his,  sliall  we  say,  immediate  superior  or 
reporting  superior. 

Mr.  Moulder.  In  accordance  with  the  request  of  Mr.  Jackson,  the 
witness  is  directed  by  the  committee  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  PouLsox.  I  must  again,  Mr.  Chairman,  respectfully  decline 
to  answer  the  question,  not  only  because  I  don't  wish  for  moral  reasons 
to  be  in  the  position  of  talking  about  others  but  because  I  feel  that  I 
require  the  protection  of  the  first  and  the  fifth  amendments  to  the 
Constitution,  and  there  may  be  some  doubt  in  my  mind  as  to  the  ques- 
tion of  pertinency,  as  well. 

May  I  speak  with  him  ? 

Mr.  Moulder.  Yes. 

Mr.  PouLSOx.  My  counsel,  after  conferring  with  him,  advises  me 
that  I  ought  to  point  out  flatly  that  I  feel  that  the  question  is  not 
pertinent  to  the  bona  fide  purposes  of  this  investigation,  in  addition 
to  the  other  statements  made. 

Mr,  Ta\^xxer.  Have  you  read  the  opening  statement  that  the 
chairman  made  at  the  beginning  of  this  hearing,  which  includes  the 
resolution  ? 

Mr.  PouLSOX.  Yes,  I  have. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Of  the  committee.  I  think  then  it  is  not  necessary 
for  me  to  make  any  further  explanation  of  the  question  of  pertinency. 

Have  you  held  any  position  of  leadership  in  the  Communist  Party 
in  Los  Angeles  during  the  past  5  years  ? 

Mr.  PouLSox.  Answering  the  question  in  two  parts,  on  technical 
positions  of  leadership,  you  know,  where  one  nominally  holds  an 
office,  I  believe  there  was  a  time  within  that  5-year  period  you  speak 
of,  during  the  first  of  those  5  years,  when  I  was  a  chairman  of  a  Com- 
mmiist  Party  club. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  What  club  was  that? 

Mr.  PouLSOX.  It  was  the  club  to  which  I  told  you  I  belonged  before 
1  became  a  member  at  large. 

]\Ir.  Tavexxer.  As  to  which  you  do  not  recall  its  name? 

Mr.  PouLSOX.  I  honestly  do  not,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Was  it  in  a  particular  area,  composed  of  members 
from  a  particular  area  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  It  was  composefl.  of  pfoplc  who  in  ii-enoral  lived  in 
the  Bay  area. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  AVhat  part  of  the  Hay  area,  was  it  Santa  Monica, 
for  instance  ? 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN   CALIFORNIA    1247 

Mr.  PoiiLsox.  When  I  say  the  Bay  ai-ea,  I  iiichule  in  my  mind  Santa 
Monica,  Venice,  West  Los  Angeles,  Mar  Vista,  Brentwood,  even — 
yon  know  liow  these  lines  of  gerrymander — perhaps  even  parts  of 
Culver  City  of  Beverly  Hills,  1  am  not  sure;  that  general  area  which 
some  people  refer  to  as  the  North  Bay  area. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  If  you  would  identify  the  places  where  the  meet- 
ings were  held,  that  may  be  of  some  assistance  to  us  in  understanding 
what  group  of  the  Communist  Party  it  was  that  you  were  connected 
with. 

Mr.  PouLSox.  I  think  meetings  were  generally  held  in  Venice  or 
Santa  Monica.    I  think  there  may  also  have  been 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  chairman  of  that  group? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  would  have  to  do  some  real  scratching  to  give  you 
an  accurate  answer,  but  I  would  estimate,  offhand,  that  I  was  chair- 
man of  that  group  for  perhaps  a  half  a  year,  maybe  even  a  year,  some 
kind  of  period  in  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  had  any  other  position  of  leadership  in 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  have  never  held,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  any 
other  nominal  position  of  any  kind  in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  last  two  years  of  your  membership  as 
a  member  at  large,  did  I  understand  you  to  say  you  had  some  con- 
nection with  the  Daily  People's  World? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  I  was  a  reporter. 

Mr.  Ta^t;nner.  A  reporter. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  For  the  Los  Angeles  Bureau  of  the  Daily  People's 
World,  1955, 1956. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  write  a  column  for  the  paper  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  There  was  a  period  of  time  during  which,  among 
other  things,  I  wrote  a  column. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  your  going  with  that  paper  result  from  any 
conference  that  you  had  with  Communist  Party  leaders  in  this  area  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Yes,  it  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  the  Communist  Party  organization  desired 
you  to  take  this  position  with  the  paper? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  That  was  my  understanding. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  find  other  persons  engaged  in  staff  work 
with  that  paper  wlio  were  known  to  you  to  be  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  That  question,  sir,  I  must  decline  to  answer  on  the 
grounds  I  have  already  indicated,  where  questions  of  association  Avith 
others  are  concerned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  May  I  have  a  direction? 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  is  directed  to  answer. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  I  must  again  respectfully  decline  to  answer  the 
question  on  the  grounds  indicated,  Mr.  Chairman, 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Was  the  Daily  People's  World  the  official  organ 
of  the  Communist  Party  in  this  area  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  To  the  best  of  my  knowledge  and  belief,  it  was  not. 
Many  people,  however,  thought  that  it  was,  both  those  people  in  the 
Commmiist  Party  and  people  outside  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  We  have  received  a  great  deal  of  evidence  indicating 
that  it  was  understood  in  the  Communist  Party  that  each  member 


1248    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

engage  in  some  particular  work  in  a  mass  organization.  That  was 
expected  of  him  as  a  member  of  the  Conmiunist  Party. 

Did  that  principle  have  anything  to  do  with  your  taking  this 
position  with  the  Daily  People's  World  ? 

Mr.  PouLsoN.  You  mean  did  the  Communist  Party  regard  the  Daily 
People's  World  as  a  kind  of  mass  organization  participation  which 
would  fulfill  the  desire  for  a  mass  activity  for  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Not  quite.  I  refer  to  the  fact  that  that  was  the 
practice  of  the  Communist  Party,  as  we  understand,  to  have  its  mem- 
bers to  go  out  into  mass  organizations  and  perform  services  for  the 
Communist  Party  there. 

Now,  my  question  was  whether  or  not,  in  going  into  the  work  of  the 
Daily  People's  World,  you  considered  you  were  performing  that  duty 
as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Primarily,  it  never  occurred  to  me  to  think  of  that  as 
a  mass  activity. 

Mr.  Ta-\tenner.  It  is  a  little  different. 

Mr.  PoFLsoN.  I  felt  that  in  becoming  a  reporter  for  the  Daily 
People's  World  I  was  fulfilling  a  function,  including  Communists  or 
non-Communists  who  might  read  it,  in  trying  to  report  what  was 
going  on  and  give  the  readers  an  accurate  picture  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVlien  you  resigned  from  the  Communist  Party, 
did  you  resign  from  the  Daily  People's  World  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  No,  I  had  already  left  the  Daily  People's  World 
shortly  before  resigning  from  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Would  you  say  that  the  two  acts  were  virtually 
joint? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  At  the  time  that  I  left  the  staff  of  the  Daily  People's 
World,  the  paper  was  in  financial  difficulties.  It  was  necessary  to  cur- 
tail stock.     There  was  a  question  inevitably  arising  as  to  who  should 

I  indicated  that  I  would  be  willing  to  go,  and  this  was  accepted  as 
the  basis  for  a  decision. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  you  did  not  consider  the  Daily  People's 
World  as  a  mass  organization,  in  which  I  think  your  position  is  cor- 
rect. But  there  were  mass  organizations  in  which  you  participated 
as  a  result  of  what  you  considered  to  be  your  duty  as  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party,  were  there  not  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Maybe  I  am  in  a  little  different  position  from  some 
people,  in  that  although  during  my  time  as  a  Commmiist  I  frequently 
was  not  in  a  position  to  shout  from  the  housetops  that  I  was  a  Com- 
munist, nevertheless,  I  usually  seemed  to  be  engaged  in  some  kind  of 
activity  which  led  almost  everybody  to  assume  that  I  was,  and  this 
put  very  severe  limitations  on  my  ability  to  join  any  kind  of  organiza- 
tion.    It  is  true 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  had  already  been  disclosed,  so  to  speak? 

Mr.  PotjIjSOn.  Or  I  was  self-exposed.  You  know,  maybe  I  had  a 
personal  lient  in  tliat  direction,  anyway,  because  it  is  rough  to  believe 
in  something  and  be  able  to  say  what  you  believe  in,  and  hear  people 
talk  about  it  and  not  be  able  to  talk  back,  and  I  was  pretty  constantly 
letting  my  views  be  heard  and  know^n. 

I  am  not — I  have  been  a  member  at  a  couple  of  occasions  of  what  1 
would  call  general  mass  organizations,  but  it  just  happened  that  1 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1249 

got  into  them  through  some  other  facet  of  my  life,  some  problem,  and 
not  as  a  result  of  being  sent  there  or  urged  there  by  the  Conmiunist 
Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  if  you  had  not  already  gotten  into  those  mass 
organizations  because  of  the  special  interest  that  you  referred  to,  you 
probably  Avould  have  been  sent  there  anyway,  wouldn't  you? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  That  is  speculation,  Mr.  Tavenner.     I  am  not  sure. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  That  was  the  practice  in  the  Communist  Party, 
\vasn't  it,  to  send  members  to  the  place  where  they  were  best  fitted? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  When  I  was  a  Communist,  I  used  to  constantly  urge 
m,y  fellow  Communists  to  go  out  and  join  what  we  called  mass 
organizations,  so  that  they,  in  the  first  place,  could  know  what  the 
people  in  the  organizations  were  like  and,  secondly,  could,  I  hoped, 
Avin  the  respect  of  their  neighbors  and  friends  in  the  work  of  these 
organizations. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  eventually  get  them  into  the  Coiinnunist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Yes;  I  hoped  very  much  that  out  of  t!ie  contacts 
that  were  established  in  that  way  som^e  of  my  fellow  members  would 
find  others  who  agreed  with  them  and  would  ultimately  join  the 
Connnunist  Party,  there  is  no  question  about  it. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  And  that  was  the  common  practice  and  rule  with- 
in the  Conmiunist  Party,  not  just  with  you  individually,  but  with 
the  party  as  a  whole  ? 

Mr.  PouLSON.  It  was  my  understanding  that  it  was  the  common 
practice  and  rule. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Mr.  Jackson  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  just  one  question.  I  have  found  the  testi- 
mony extremely  interesting  and  I  think  in  some  respects  helpful. 

The  question  I  would  put  to  the  witness,  if  he  cares  to  answer  it, 
there  are  a  number  of  bewildered  and  somewhat  befuddled,  I  think — 
young  liberals  in  the  country  today.  I  know  througli  my  contacts 
with  many  of  them,  in  talking  at  universities  and  so  forth,  that  they 
are  bewildered.  I  should  like  to  have  some  comment  from  you,  grow- 
ing out  of  your  own  personal  experience  in  the  Communist  Party 
over  a  period  of  years  as  to  whether  or  not  the  Communist  Party  is 
the  instrument  which  is  going  to  serve  to  bring  order  into  their  dis- 
ordered minds  or  whether  or  not  they  might  better  take  their  chance 
with  American  institutions,  as  imperfect  as  they  may  appear  to  be 
in  the  present  state  of  world  affairs. 

Mr.  PouLSON.  Well,  Mr.  Jackson,  although  I  am  a  willing  witness, 
I  am  unwilling  to  remain  silent  to  any  question  which  I  feel  I  can 
answer,  once  I  have  been  brought  here. 

Of  course,  I  think  it  is  pretty  clear— I  hope  it  is  clear  from  the  kind 
of  testimony  I  have  given — that  I  would  above  all  urge  these  people 
not  to  make  up  their  mind  on  the  basis  of  fear  of  consequences,  but  on 
the  basis  of  conviction,  do  the  things  they  felt  it  was  right  to  do,  even 
though  it  might  cost  them  something.     Everything  costs  something. 

it  happens  to  be  my  personal  opinion — and  I  am  only  one  person ; 
I  am  not  speaking  from  high  tribunal — it  is  just  my  personal  opinion 
that,  as  I  have  stated  before,  that  those  people  wiio  want  to  see  this 


1250    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMIVIUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

country  become  ever  freer  and  stronger  and  greater  and  continue  to 
live  in  a  world  of  peace — and  I  think  of  my  son  and  my  daughter — 
will  not  find  the  most  effective  way  of  accomplishing  this  by  associ- 
ating themselves  with  relatively  ineffective  and  unrealistic  groups, 
such  as  I  consider  the  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  today 
to  be. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Thank  you  very  much.     The  witness  is  excused. 

How  many  more  witnesses  do  we  have  this  afternoon  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  five. 

Mr.  WnuN.  I  have  a  couple  that  will  be  brief. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  committee  will  recess  until  1 :30  p.m. 

(Whereupon,  at  12  noon,  Thursday,  October  22,  1951),  the  subcom- 
mittee recessed  to  reconvene  at  1 :30  p.m.  of  the  same  day.) 

AFTERNOON  SESSION— THURSDAY,  OCTOBER  22,  1959 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 

Call  the  first  witness,  Mr.  Tavemier. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Mr.  James  McGowan,  will  you  come  forward, 
please,  sir? 

Mr.  Moulder.  You  are  Mr.  James  McGowan  ? 

Mr.  McGowAX.  That's  right. 

Mr.  ]Moulder.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  committee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth, 
and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  McGowan.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  JAMES  GEORGE  McGOWAN,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
COUNSEL,  BEN  MAKGOLIS 

jNIr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

i\Ir.  McGowan.  James  George  McGowan. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  counsel  accompanying  tlie  witness  please 
identify  himself  for  the  record  ? 

Mr.  Margolis.  Ben  Margolis. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  McGowan.  In  New  York  City,  July  6, 1908. 

Mr.  Ta\'enner.  Where  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  Elsinore,  Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  State  of  California  ? 

Mr.  McGowan.  Koughly,  since  1930  or  1931. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  the  committee,  please,  briefly  your 
educational  backgromid  ? 

Mr.  McGowan.  I  graduated  f I'om  high  school  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  occupation '? 

Mr.  McGowan.  Self-em]:)loyed  television  repairman. 

]\Ir.  TA^•ENNER.  Mr.  jNIcGowan,  we  have  learned  through  the  hear- 
ings we  have  conducted  in  Los  Angeles  that  there  was  a  rejuvenation 
of  the  Communist  Party  after  the  decision  in  the  Yates  case,  as  a  re- 
sult of  which  the  Commmiist  Party  for  the  State  of  California  was 
divided  into  a  Northern  and  Southern  District . 


INVESTIGATION    OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN   CALIFORNIA     1251 

Tlie  Soutliern  District  lias,  we  understand,  28  different  unitvS  com- 
|)risino:  that  disti-ict.  Are  you  at  this  time  a  member  of  any  one  of 
llioseunits? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  I  will  not  answer  the  question.  1  consider  that  it 
is  an  invasion  of  my  rights.  The  committee  which  is — you  claim  to 
set  up  to  investioate  pertinent  material — has  no  reason  to  infjuire  into 
my  associations  or  my  beliefs.     I  will  not  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  May  I  have  a  direction  ? 

Mr.  ]\IouLDER.  The  witness  is  directed  to  answer  the  question.  Your 
response  is  not  satisfactory. 

]Mr.  McGowAN.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  rights 
protecting  my  rights  of  the  first  amendment  of  the  United  States  and 
the  fifth  amendment  to  the  United  States  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  attended  any  of  the  district  meetings  of 
the  Communist  Party  for  the  Southern  District  of  California  since 
Aprill957? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  This  question  and  the  question  before,  and  I  assume 
questions  foUowmg  I  consider  an  invasion  of  my  right  of  association, 
and  I  will  not  answer  such  questions.  I  will  not  answer  on  the  grounds 
that  I  gave  to  the  previous  question. 

]Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  report  of  Dorothy  Healey 
relating  to  the  program  for  work  among  youth  in  this  area? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  This  question  is  the  same  as  the  two  before  it.  I 
will  not  answer  questions  that  tend  to  probe  into  my  tliinking,  my 
association  and  my  activities.  This  is  an  invasion  of  my  right  guar- 
anteed by  the  first  amendment,  and  I  will  not  answer  on  the  gromid 
of  the  first  amendment  and  the  fifth  amendment,  because  these  mat- 
ters are  not  within  the  purview  of  this  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  not  asking  you  any  question  regarding  your 
beliefs  or  your  opinions,  but  I  am  as  to  your  activities. 

Now,  haven't  you  been  active  in  the  youth  work  of  the  Communist 
Party  for  a  number  of  years  ? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  This  question,  like  the  others,  you  are  inquiring  in 
an  area  which  you  are  not  entitled  to  inquire,  and  I'll  not  answer  on 
the  grounds  already  given. 

^ir.  Tavenner,  I  hand  you  a  theimofax  copy  of  a  page  taken  from 
Xew  Frontiers,  and  down  in  the  right-hand  coi-ner  there  is  a  reference 
to  you  as  an  associate  editor  of  New  Frontiers. 

Will  you  examine  it,  please,  and  state  wliether  you  were  an  asso- 
ciate editor  of  that  magazine  ? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  This  question,  like  the  ones  before,  attempts  to  pry 
into  my  beliefs,  my  associations,  and  to  this  question  I  will  also  add 
the  right  of  freedom  of  press. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  read  from  the  article : 

New  Frontiers  is  tlie  official  yearbook  of  the  Young  Commnuist  League  of 
California,  issued  on  the  occasion  of  the  First  Annual  State  Convention  of  the 
Young  Communist  League,  held,  at  Los  Angeles  on  November  .5,  6,  and  7,  1937 ; 
editor,  G.  P.  Hitchcock ;  business  manager.  Chai'les  Sanford ;  associates,  Ed 
Alexander,  Jim  McGowan. 

I  desire  to  offer  the  document  in  evidence,  ask  that  it  be  marked 
"McGowan  Exhibit  1." 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  document  referred  to  by  counsel  Avill  be 
admitted  into  evidence. 


1252     INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN   CALIFORNIA 

(Docimient  marked  '"McGowan  Exhibit  No.  1"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  Taaexner.  Were  j^ou  the  executive  secretary  for  the  Com- 
munist Party  of  Fresno,  Tulare,  and  Kings  Counties  in  California  in 
1942? 

Mr.  McGowAx.  You  are  asking  questions  aljout  association.  You 
ask  questions  about  association.  They  involve  the  matter  of  free 
speech,  and  since  I  do  not  consider  that  you  have  the  right  to  inquire 
into  my  ideas  and  my  associations,  I'll  not  answer  that  question  on 
the  grounds  given. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  The  same  grounds,  first  and  fifth  amendments? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  Yes. 

i\Ir.  Tavenxer.  In  1943  were  you  a  member  of  the  Plarbor  Section 
of  tlie  Communist  Party  of  California  ? 

Mr.  McGowAN.  Same  kind  of  question.  Do  you  want  me  to  repeat 
the  answer  ? 

Mr.  Ta\t]nner.  No,  if  you  say  the  same. 

Mr.  McGowan".  Same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavex^ner.  In  1947  were  you  the  literature  director  of  tlie 
Venice  Club,  16th  Congressional  District,  Los  Angeles,  (Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  McGowAX.  The  same  question,  the  same  answer. 

^Ir.  Ta^t^^tner.  What  position  do  you  hold  in  the  Communist 
Party  now? 

Mr.  McGowAx.  Same  question,  kind  of  question,  the  same  answer. 

Mr.  Ta-^texx'er.  I  believe  you  said  your  present  residence  was 
Elsinore  ? 

^Ir.  McGowAx.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  Are  you  at  this  time  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  group  at  Elsinore  ? 

Mr.  IMcGow^AN.  Now,  continuing  to  ask  questions  of  this  kind 
strengthens  in  me  the  conviction  that  the  purposes  of  the  investigation 
are  quite  different  from  the  purposes  that  you  profess. 

I  believe  that  you  would  intend  to  use  this  committee  to  try  to  intimi- 
date me,  to  try  to  intimidate  other  people,  to  try  to  proscribe  ideas,  and 
I'll  not  lend  myself  to  this. 

You  may  think  that  reading  this  resolution  as  to  the  purposes  and 
the  pertinence  of  your  investigation  is  the  final  answer.  I  don't  tliink 
it  is. 

I  think  more  and  more  greater  numbers  of  people  are  becoming  dis- 
satisfied with  this  kind  of  activity,  resisting  and  investigating. 

Mr.  Tavenx'er.  What  kind  of  investigations? 

Mr.  ]McG(nvAN.  Into  those  and 

Mr.  TA^^:x"XE^v.  You  weren't  referring  to  Communist  Party  activ- 
ities? 

Mr.  McGowAX^.  No,  the  activities  of  your  committee. 

IVIr.  Jacksox".  I  would  suggest  that  the  witness  is  being  given  every 
op])ortunity  to  express  himself,  but  that  his  answer  is  not  in  any  way 
responsive  to  the  question  asked  by  counsel,  and  I  think  it  is  time  to 
get  an  answer  from  the  witness,  as  to  whether  he  pro])oses  to  answer  tin- 
question  or  not, 

Mr.  McGowAN.  It  is  obvious  that  I  will  not  answer  questions  dealing 
with  association,  with  ideas. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1253 

Mr.  Jackson.  This  is  obvious,  we  understand  this.    Do  you  decline 

to  answer? 

JNIr.  JNIcGowAX.  Oli,  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  On  the  first  and  fifth  amendments? 

Mr.  JNIcGowAN.  Yes,tliat's  riglit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Moulder.  I  can't  understand.  You  make  a  lon^r  statement  of 
reasoninc;,  but  then  hiter  you  add  the  first  and  fiftli  amendments. 

]Mr.  McGowAN.  One  can  have  several  reasons  for  not  answering 
questions  of  this  kind.    I  can  state  a  number  of  reasons. 

]\Ir,  Jackson.  You  have  already  stated  a  number  of  reasons.  You 
have  stated  the  most  pertinent  one  in  exercising  your  constitutional 
privileges. 

I  ask  the  witness  be  excused. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  wntness  is  excused. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  Mr.  William  Wallace  Norton,  Jr. 

INIr.  Moulder.  Do  you  solemnly  SAvear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole 
truth,  and  notliing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  WILLIAM  WALLACE  NOETON,  JR.,  ACCOMPANIED 

BY  COUNSEL,  A.  L.  ¥7IRIN 

Mr.  Tavenner.  TNHiat  is  your  name,  please,  sir  i 

Mr.  Norton.  My  name  is  William  Wallace  Norton. 

I  would  like  to  know  what  the  charges  are  against  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  There  are  no  charges  against  you. 

ISIr.  Norton.  Well,  sir — — 

Mr.  Taatsnner.  You  have  been  subpenaed  here  because  the  com- 
mittee was  informed  that  you  are  in  possession  of  some  facts  which  it 
desires  to  hear. 

Mr.  Norton.  In  other  words,  I  am  not  charged  with  a  crime  or  you 
liave  not  presumed  that  I  am  guilty  of  anything;  is  that  true? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  you  are  not  chai'ged  with  any  ci'ime. 

Mr.  Norton.  And  you  pi-esume  I  am  innocent  ? 

]Mr.  TavennePi.  Innocent  of  what? 

Mr.  Norton.  Well,  whatever  this  entire — circus  is  about. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  JNIay  we  have  order  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  There  is  no  presumption — excuse  me  for  a  moment, 
Mr.  Wirin — I  don't  know  how  long  you  have  contemplated  this 
opening  attack.  There  is  no  presumption  on  my  part  of  anything — 
just  a  moment 

Mr.  Norton.  Considerable  pressure  of  something. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Just  a  minute,  please.  There  is  no  presumption  on 
my  ]3art:  certaiidy,  I  know  of  no  charges  against  you. 

Mr.  Norton.  I  am  happy  to  hear  that. 

]Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  not  conferred  with  the  staff  as  to  3'our  appear- 
ance or  as  to  any  allegation  that  might  possibly  have  been  made  under 
oath  by  others.  You  are  starting  from  scratch,  INIr.  Witness,  and 
your  conduct  on  the  stand  will  demonstrate  to  what  extent  you  your- 
self may  feel  that  some  charges  are  properly  laid  against  you. 

So  far  as  I  am  concerned,  there  are  no  charges  pending. 

48192— GO — pt.  3 5 


1254    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMJVIUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr  Norton.  Thank  you  very  much,  sir.  I  am  happy  to  have  the 
Cono-ress  of  the  United  States  make  an  announcement  of  my  nmocence. 

]Mr.  Jackson.  Just  a  moment.  We  find  you  neither  guilty  nor  inno- 
cent of  anvthing.  ^  ,      „^.„  -  ,.     ^ 

Now  let's  go  on  from  there,  Mr.  Counsel.  Will  you  ask  questions 
which  may  tend  to  clarify  this  matter,  and  let  whatever  assumptions 
may  be  drawn  be  drawn.     I  have  drawn  none  to  this  time. 

Mr  WiRiN.  ]Mr.  Chairman,  would  you  instruct  persons  not  to  en- 
o-ao-e  in  laughter,  whether  it  comes  from  counsel  table  or  anywhere 

else^ 

Mr  Moulder.  Yes.  We  have  made  that  announcement  before. 
Will  those  in  the  hearing  room  conduct  themselves  in  a  dignified  way 
so  as  not  to  make  audible  sounds  or  any  interference  by  laughter  or 
remarks  concerning  the  witness  or  the  hearing  ? 

:Mr.  Tavenner.  ^Y[\en  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Pardon? 

J^Ir  T  WENNER.  When  and  where  were  you  born  i 

Mr  Norton.  May  I  tell  Mr.  Moulder,  as  the  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee, that  this  is  very  serious  business,  and  I  intend  no  laughter  and 
I  didn't  have  anv  such'motives  in  view.  I  am  an  ordinary  sort  ot  man, 
and  I  am  attempting  as  best  I  can  to  clear  this  thing  tlirough  and  state 
my  purpose,  and  I  certainly  would  agree  that  laughter  has  nothing 
to  do  with  this. 

Mr.  Moulder.  All  right.     Let  us  proceed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  will  you  answer  the  question,  please,  sir? 
Wlien  anci  where  were  you  born ?  ,     ^r  ^       - 

Mr.  Norton.  I  was  born  in  Ogden,  Utah,  tlie  Mormon  country,  m 

1925 

Mr.  Ta%^nner.  It  is  noticed  that  you  are  accompanied  by  counsel. 

Mr  WiRiN.  I  don't  want  to  go  ignored  completely. 

Mr.  Tamsnner.  I  have  never  been  guilty  of  ignoring  you. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Completely,  I  said. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  not  to  any  extent. 

Mr.  IMouLDER.  Counsel  will  identify  himself. 

I^Ir.  WiRiN.  A.  L.  Wirin,  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  A\niere  do  you  reside?     ^        ,        ,      ^       , 

Mr  Norton.  I  reside  in  Encino  here  m  Los  Angeles  County. 

Mr!  TA^^2NNER.  How  long  have  you  been  a  resident  here  m  t.ali- 

'^Mr^  Norton.  Since  1935,  when  my  parents  came  here  from  Utah. 

Mr  Wirin.  May  I  talk  to  the  witness  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  occupation?  •,,_  fi,,f 

Mr.  Norton.  Sir,  I  have  prepared  a  report  to  the  committee  that 
lists  mv  occupation  and  other  pertinent  facts  surrounding  it,  and  1 
would  like  to  ask  permission  to  submit  this  for  the  record  of  the  com- 
mittee althou<rh  Mr.  Wheeler  and  the  investigators  of  the  committee 
iJIiow  ;Cri^  and  I  would  like  to  submit  this  to  the  committee 

as  a  record  of  where  I  work.  .  i  •       -j.       ut„ 

Mr  Wirin  May  I  iust  say  to  the  committee  that  making  it  public 
might  injure  him  in  his  employment.  You  have  said  ^?^"^.;;;;^\^^f  "J 
you  have  no  such  purpose,  and  you  may  have  his  information,  but  we 
Would  appreciate  it  if  you  do  not  make  it  public  at  this  time. 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES   IN   CALIFORNIA     1255 

Mr.  Moulder.  May  I  say  to  you,  Mr.  Norton,  that  I  ]iave  con- 
ferred with  my  colleague,  Mr.  Jackson.  It  is  not  the  purpose  or  intent 
of  the  committee  to  cause  any  unfair  publicity  to  yourself  or  is  it  our 
intention  to  do  anything  to  affect  your  employment.  These  hearings 
are  conducted  in  accordance  with  and  at  the  direction  of  the  Congress 
of  the  United  States.  The  hearings  are  public,  and  what  may  result 
from  your  testimony  in  the  form  of  publicity  can't  be  controlled  by 
the  committee.     We  have  no  authority  to  do  that. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Would  you  give  me  a  word  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  ask  a  question :  As  I  look  at  this,  the  material 
that  has  been  sent  to  the  desk,  1  see  only  one  matter  which  is  in  any 
way  related  to  any  reasonable  fear  of  reprisal,  and  that  is  the  one 
having  to  do  with  your  employment. 

Mr.  Norton.  I  included  these  other  factors  as  they  may  be  of  interest 
to  you,  as  further  points  of  my  background. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Why  should  your  Army  service  or  being  a  combat 
infantryman  in  France,  Germany  and  Austria  be  in  any  way  privileged 
matter  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  I  don't  ask  for  that. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Are  there  some  of  these  he  is  asking  and  some  of  these 
he  is  not  asking  ? 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Yes.  The  only  matter  which  he  requests  not  be  made 
public  at  this  time  is  the  matter  of  the  name  of  his  employer.  Every- 
thing else — incidentally,  I  haven't  seen  the  list,  but  this  is  my  under- 
standing— everything  else  he  will  testify  to  publicly,  and  you  have  on 
past  occasions  held  executive  sessions,  and  in  other  instances  not  dis- 
closed information  which  you  felt  was  harmful  to  a  person.  That  one, 
single  bit  of  information  may  affect  him  adversely  in  his  employment. 
In  litigation  which  we  have  had  the  conmiittee  has  said  it  does  not 
want 

Mr.  Moulder.  You  are  proceeding  along  the  lines  or  with  the  as- 
sumption that  your  testimony  is  going  to  have  an  unfavorable  public 
reaction  to  yourself.  Now,  you  can  avoid  that,  of  course,  by  being 
a  loyal,  patriotic  American  citizen  and  testifying  in  such  a  way  that 
it  will  not  be  unfavorable  to  you.  Your  appearance  before  this  com- 
mittee in  itself  certainly  is  not  any  reflection  upon  you.  We  are  asking 
you  for  information,  and  by  acceding  to  your  request  here  would  be 
giving  you  a  different  consideration  than  has  been  accorded  to  any 
other  witness  that  has  ever  appeared  before  this  committee.  The 
request  is  overruled. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  proceed  with  your  question. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  May  I  look  at  this  paper  first?  Mr.  Moulder,  no  wit- 
ness that  I  represented  at  these  hearings  has  been  asked  as  to  his  em- 
ployment. A  number  of  witnesses  whom  I  represented  have  not  been 
asked,  so  it  is  not  true  that  every  witness  who  has  appeared  has  been 
aslced  with  respect  to  his  employment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  didn't  ask  him  about  his  employment.  I  asked 
him  about  his  occupation. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Inevitably 

"Sir.  Tavenner.  Every  witness  has  been  asked  that  question,  as  far 
as  I  know,  for  ten  years. 

Mr.  ISIouLDER.  Let  us  proceed  in  an  orderly  way.  The  question  is 
what? 


1256     ENA'-ESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tan-enxer.  The  question  is,  What  is  your  occupation  ? 
INIr.  WiRiN.  May  I  confer  with  him  for  a  moment? 
Mr.  ^yiouLDER.  Yes.     The  witness  is  directed  to  answer  the  question. 
Iklr.  Tavenner.  I  seldom  ask  for  addresses  and  employers'  names, 
very  seldom. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Let  us  proceed.     Confer  with  your  client. 

Mr.  NoRTOX.  I  am  a  public  employee  in  Los  Angeles  County. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  That  is  his  occupation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  character  of  work  do  you  do  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Chairman,   I  would  respectfully  suggest  that 

that 

Mv  Moulder.  That  is  a  very  evasive  response  to  the  question. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  don't  think,'  Mr.  Chairman,  that  we  can  profitably 
pursue  this  matter  further,  except  I  would  make  an  addendum  that 
the  record,  as  handed  in  by  counsel,  should  appear  in  the  full  record 
of  the  hearings.  I  don't  "know  that  it  will  serve  any  purpose,  Mr. 
Chairman,  at  this  time  by  disclosing  it,  but  I  do  think  that  if  the  com- 
mittee accedes  to  his  request,  the  information  should  become  part  of 
the  public  record. 

:Mr.  WiRiN.  I  don't  object  to  that,  and  this  is  agreeable. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  so  request,  Mr.  Chairman,  in  the  interest  of  time. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  I  appreciate  Mr.  Jackson's  position. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  interest  of  time,  I  request  that  this  informa- 
tion be  incorporated  as  a  part  of  the  public  record.  I  think,  for  the 
purpose  of  what  we  are  trying  to  determine  at  the  moment,  that  this 
is  not  a  matter  of  transcendental  importance. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  withdraw  the  question. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  Thank  you. 

jSIr.  Jackson.  May  I  ask  consent,  ]\Ir.  Chairman,  that  this  material 
be  inserted  in  the  transcript  of  the  record  at  this  point. 

Mr.  INIouLDER.  It  is  so  ordered. 

(The  document  above  referred  to  is  as  follows :) 

William  Wallace  Norton,  Jr.,  16756  Moorpark,  Enoino,  Calif.  Born  September 
24  1925,  Ogden,  Utah.  Employed  as  State  park  ranger  by  State  of  California. 
Presently  assigned  Los  Encinos  State  Historical  Monument,  same  address  as 
above  Army  Service  No.  39716586.  Combat  infantryman  in  France,  Germany, 
and  Austria  during  World  War  II.  Educated  at  public  schools  in  Los  Angeles 
since  1935.  Graduated  El  Monte  High  School,  attended  Redlands  University 
but  did  not  graduate. 

Mr.  Moulder.  That  is  a  very  unusual  proceeding.  Even  in  court 
proceedings  it  is  unusual  to  read  into  the  record 

Mr.  Wirin.  There  are  exceptions  to  any  rule,  and  it  is  nice  for  you 
to  make  an  exception. 

Mr.  Jackson.  If  I  felt  we  were  going  to  get  any  appreciable 
amount  of  information  from  the  witness,  I  might  take  a  different 
position.     I  don't  at  the  moment. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  think  you  ought  to  treat  him  tlie  same  way,  if  he 
has  certain  rights  the  Constitution  gives  him,  whether  he  does  or  does 
not  assert  those  riglits.     But  let's  argue  that  somewhere  else. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Let's  see  how  he  answers  the  rest  of  these  questions 
and  reserve  our  decision  on  that  until  then. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understood  you  to  say  you  were  in  the  Armed 
Forces  of  the  United  States? 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1257 

Mr.  NoKTON.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  what  period  of  time  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  World  War  II. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Over  what  period  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  This  was  from  1943  to  1945.  I  was  in  Company  A  of 
tlie  Fifth  Infantry,  and  we  fought  in  France,  Germany  and  Austria. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your  edu- 
cational training  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  The  public  schools  in  Utah  and  here  in  Los  Angeles, 
high  school  here,  and  I  attended  the  University  of  Redlands  for  a 
short  period  of  time,  and  I  have  availed  myself  of  the  public  libraries. 

Mv.  Tavenner.  What  college  was  that,  or  university  'i 

Mr.  Norton.  Redlands. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  complete  your  work  there? 

Mr.  Norton.  I  didn't  complete. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  stop  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  This  was  in  194G. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Norton,  we  have  heard  that  there  are  28  differ- 
ent sections  of  the  Communist  Party  for  the  Southern  District  of 
California  under  a  revised  plan,  organizational  plan  of  the  Commu- 
nist Part3^  Are  you  at  this  time  a  member  of  any  one  of  these  units 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

jNlr.  Norton.  May  I  ask  if  this  is  a  crime,  and  if  it  is  I  would  like  to 
request  a  trial  by  judge  and  a  jury,  rather  than  a  political  hearing? 

Sir.  TA^"ENNER.  I  am  certain  your  counsel  has  advised  you  that  it  is 
no  crime. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  I  am  not  so  sure.     I  am  glad  to  have  you  say  it,  though. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  not  a  crime.  Mere  membership  is  not  a  crime. 
The  courts  have  so  held. 

Mr.  Norton.  Well,  thank  you,  sir.  I  am  happy  to  have  this  kind 
of  information.  f 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right,  now,  will  you  answer  the  question,  then  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  I  am  going  to  respectfully  decline  to  answer  and  de- 
cline to  really  be  cooperative  along  those  lines,  and  primarily  because 
I  am  a  Den.ocrat,  and  my  fellow  Democrat,  President  Truman,  came 
out  here  to  U.C.L.A.  some  time  ago,  and,  as  Mr.  Moulder,  a  fellow 
Missourian  and  Democrat  certainly  well  knows.  President  Truman 
spoke  very  sharply  and  very  strongly,  so  there  could  be  no  mistake, 
against  the  course  of  action  that  this  committee  has  taken,  and  there- 
fore I  agree  with  President  Truman.  I  don't  think  that  good  pur- 
poses are  being  carried  out  here. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  decline  to  answer  the  question,  though,  your 
agreement  notwithstanding  ?     Do  you  decline  to  answer  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  On  the  grounds  previously  stated  ? 

Mr.  Norton,  And  also  on  the  grounds  of  the  United  States  Con- 
stitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  provision  of  the  Constitution  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Well,  sir,  I  am  not  a  law^yer.  I  am  an  ordinary  man. 
I  say  on  the  basis  of  the  United  States  Constitution,  as  I  understand 
it.     This  includes  all  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  relying  on  the  provision  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment which  exempts  you  from  testifying  regarding  anything  that  may 
tend  to  incriminate  you  ? 


1258    LlSrVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  EST  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Norton.  I  am  rel3^ing  on  the  entire  United  States  Constitution, 
and  I  am  not  going  to  cut  it  into  bits  and  pieces  and  specify  this 
portion  and  that  portion,  because  I  feel  that  this  is  a  fairly  Ameri- 
can and  fairly  honest  and  correct  thing  to  do.  Mr.  Moulder  used  the 
phrase 

Mr.  Tavenner.  jNIr.  Chairman,  in  view  of  the  witness'  answer,  I 
ask  that  you  direct  him  to  answer. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  is  directed  to  ansAver. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  don't  think  you  can  pussyfoot  with  the  Constitu- 
tion in  that  manner. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  I  don't  think  the  witness  is  pussyfooting. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Wirin,  please. 

Mr.  Wirin.  He  makes — all  right,  all  right,  I  guess  I  don't  have  the 
same  rights  as  he,  of  course. 

Mr.  Norton.  Sir,  this  is  one  of  the  things  that  I  can't  help  feeling. 
This  is  not  a  court  of  law,  and  my  attorney  can't  speak.  Now,  surely 
this  means  something.  That  is  why,  if  I  am  guilty  of  a  crime,  I  would 
like  to  be  in  a  court  of  law  where  evidence  is  presented,  and  a  jury 
and  a  judge  hears  it,  but  in  direct  reply  to  Mr.  Moulder,  I  decline  to 
answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  United  States  Constitution  and  on  the 
obligations  and  protections  that  are  afforded  to  me  as  a  citizen  therein. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  siibmit  this  is  invoking  every  privilege,  including 
the 

Mr.  Moulder.  As  I  understand,  you  are  invoking  and  claim  the  pro- 
tection of  all  the  provisions  of  the  Constitution  without  specifying  any 
particular  provision  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Wirin.  And  all  the  privileges,  too. 

Mr.  Norton.  All  of  the  protections  and  the  privileges  and  the  ob- 
ligations of  the  United  States  Constitution. 

Mr.  Wirin.  There  is  something  new  all  the  time. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  perhaps  we  have  allowed  the 
distinguished  counsel  representing  the  present  witness  as  much  lati- 
tude as  we  have  allowed  any  counsel  ever  appearing  before  this  com- 
mittee. I  say  this  with  no  animosity  whatever.  But  I  am  sure  that 
the  gentleman  has  a  full  knowledge  of  the  mles  of  procedure  of  the 
committee,  wliich  confines  counsel  to  advising  his  client  and  advising 
him  only,  not  to  engage  in  debate  or  suggestions  or  asides  over  and 
above  and  beyond  that  function  of  advice. 

I  would  certainly  hope  that  counsel  would  abide  by  the  rules  of  the 
committee.  I  think  the  committee  has  treated  him  and  his  clients 
with  courtesy  and  consideration.  Perhaps  he  might  not  agree.  But 
I  Avould  certainly  hope  that  counsel  for  the  American  Civil  Liberties 
Union  would  confine  himself  to  advice  to  his  client. 

Mr.  Moulder.  That  is  correct,  Mr.  Wirin,  and  may  I  say,  too,  that 
we  are  trying  to  conduct  hearings  in  a  very  dignified,  orderly  man- 
ner. However,  in  view  of  your  statement  and  statements  made  by 
counsel,  I  am  inclined  to  believe  that  you  are  using  a  very  clever  tech- 
nique to  embarrass,  ridicule  and  to  degrade  this  committee;  and  in 
response  to  your  question  or  statement  a  wdiile  ago  about  former 
President  Truman,  I  want  to  say  that  he  did  criticize  the  committee, 
but  was  referring  to  the  conduct  of  it  many  years  ago,  when  it  prob- 
ably was  justly  subject  to  some  criticism.  ]3ut  he  had  no  reference 
whatsoever  to  the  present  membership  or  the  manner  in  which  the 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALTFOIINIA     1259 

committee  hearings  are  now  being  conducted.  I  made  this  very  clear 
upon  the  floor  of  the  House. 

I  also  want  to  say  tliis  to  you,  you  also  said  tliat  you  were  a  Demo- 
crat. Now,  if  you  arc  a  Democrat  you  sliould  have  no  liesitancy  in 
denying  your  affiliation  or  connection  with  the  Communist  Party,  if 
any  you  have. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  May  I  speak  to  my  client,  please,  a  moment  ? 

Mr.  Moulder.  I  want  to  add  this :  There  are  many  members  of  the 
Communist  Party  who  have  claimed  and  actually  registered  as  Re- 
publicans and  also  as  Democrats  in  order  to  purposely  embarrass 
both  major  political  parties. 

Proceed  with  your  question. 

Mr.  NoRTOX.  Sir,  may  I  say  a  short  thing  in  relation  to  President 
Truman  ? 

Mr.  INIouLDER.  No.  We  don't  wish  to  carry  on  any  continual  argu- 
ment liere. 

Mr.  Norton.  It  is  not  argument. 

INIr.  IMouLDER.  We  are  seeking  information  which  we  think  you  can 
give  to  us  if  you  will. 

Mr.  Norton.  I  just  want  to  say 

Mr.  ]MouT.DER.  A^^iat  is  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Counsel  was  not  aware  of  this,  and  it  docs  not  repre- 
sent his  view.     That's  all  I  wish  to  say. 

Mr.  WiRTN.  I  knew  nothing  about  it. 

Mr,  Norton.  He  knew  nothing  about  it. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  INIr.  Norton,  we  understand  that  the  Venice  Club 
of  tlie  Connnunist  Party  is  within  one  of  these  areas  whicli  I  spoke  of, 
the  Western  Section  of  the  Communist  Party.  Were  you  transferred 
to  that  club,  the  A^enice  Club,  in  1954  as  a  member  of  that  club  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Sir,  I  read  very  carefully  the  statement  of  the  com- 
mittee, and  I  would  like  to  make  this  offer,  that  I  would  be  very  happy 
to  write  a  20,000  word  research  paper. 

INIr.  TA^^NNER.  You  can  answer  it  in  just  three  words.  We  don't 
need  20,000  to  get  that  answer. 

Mr.  Norton.  Well,  in  that  case,  if  I  can't  offer  such  a  full  explana- 
tion of  what  my  opinions  or  views  or  knowledge  may  be  of  the  sub- 
ject matter  contained  here,  if  I  can't  offer  that  to  the  committee  so 
they  may  publish  it  in  the  Congressional  Record,  if  they  like,  or  what- 
ever, then  on  the  basis  of  the  procedure  and  the  fact  that  this  is  not  a 
courtroom,  I  choose  to  continue  to  say  that  I  decline  to  cooperate  or 
to  answer,  and  I  do  this  on  the  basis  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr,  Chairman,  I  will  make  a  proposal  to  the  wit- 
ness. He  says  if  he  can  have  20,000  words  in  which  to  explain  his 
answer,  after  he  gives  it,  he  might  give  it.  I  suggest  tliat,  although 
time  is  short,  I  am  willing,  if  he  will  answer  the  question  "Yes"  or 
"No"  to  listen  to  20,000  words  in  explanation  of  an  unequivocal  answer 
to  the  pending  question. 

Mr.  Norton.  I  am  sorry.  I  didn't  make  it  clear.  I  apologize.  I 
wanted  to  do  a  research  paper  and  write  on  this  subject.  I  would 
research  the  matter  as  efficiently  as  I  would  be  capable  of  and  write 
20,000  words  on  tlie  history  of  i-adicalism  in  the  United  States  and  in 
Los  Angeles  County. 


1260    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Jackson.  This  Avas  not  the  question.  You  were  asked  whether 
you  were  a  member  of  the  Venice  Club.  This  is  not  a  matter  of  the 
history  of  anything.  Were  you  or  were  you  not  a  member  of  the 
Venice  Chib  of  the  Western  Section  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
Southern  California? 

Mr.  NoRTox.  Then  on  the  basis  of  the  purposes  and  activities  of  the 
committee,  in  contrast  to  the  United  States  Constitution,  I  claim  all 
of  the  privileges  and  the  obligations  contained  therein  and  respectfully 
decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Ta\t.xner.  Including  the  provisions  of  the  fifth  amendment, 
in  regard  to  immunity,  your  privilege  not  to  testify  to  any  matter 
which  may  tend  to  incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Norton.  Sir,  I  haven't  had  your  many  years  of  legal  experi- 
ence, and  I  am  not  a  Philadelphia  lawyer,  but  I  don't  intend  to  cut 
the  Constitution  into  bits  and  pieces.  1  am  satisfied  with  the  courts 
and  with  American  justice,  to  say  that  I  make  this  statement  respect- 
fully on  the  basis  of  the  entire  United  States  Constitution,  and  as  an 
ordinary  citizen  I  have  confidence  that  the  courts  and  the  justice  of  this 
country  will  recognize  that  as  a  clear  and  sensible  thing. 

Mr.  Ta^t:nner.  The  courts  have  been  perfectly  plain  in  the  matter 
that  the  witness  must  be  just  as  plain  in  invoking  the  fifth  amendment 
as  the  committee  must  be  in  directing  him  as  to  the  subject  matter  of 
his  inquir}''.  But  I  think  tlie  witness  fully  understands  it.  I  am  will- 
ing to  let  it  go  at  that. 

Mr.  Norton.  I  certainly  don't  exclude  any  of  the  amendments,  any 
of  the  words,  any  of  the  privileges  or  protections  or  obligations  con- 
tained in  the  supreme  law  of  the  land,  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

ISIr.  Moulder.  Mr.  Jackson,  do  you  have  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No,  I  have  no  questions. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  is  excused. 

]\Ir.  Norton.  Thank  you  for  your  kind  and  cooperative  attitude.  It 
wasn't  nearly  as  bad  as  I  had  feared. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  is  frequently  the  case. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Mark  Sink.    Will  you  come  forward,  please? 

Mrs.  Rosenberg.  At  this  time  may  I  make  a  request  of  the  same  na- 
ture that  I  made  yesterday,  and  that  is  to  the  effect  that  these  hear- 
ings be  held  in  executive  session,  and  that  this  witness  not  be  sub- 
jected to  a  public  hearing,  and  further  that  no  photographs  be  taken 
of  this  witness  during  his  testimony. 

Mr.  INIouLDER.  The  second  request  will  be  granted.  Photographers 
will  not  be  peiTnitted  to  take  pictures  during  the  course  of  the  witness' 
testimony.    The  first  request  is  denied. 

Mrs.  Rosenberg.  Before  there  is  a  ruling  on  the  first  one,  may  I  call 
to  the  attention  of  the  Chair  that  with  regard  to  the  executive  sessions 
it  is  my  understanding  that  there  will  be  such  sessions  tomorrow,  and 
that,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  this  Avitness  ought  to  be  entitled,  upon  a  re- 
quest, to  have  that  courtesy  and  that  right  extended  to  him,  and  we 
press  that,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  request  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Moulder.  That  is  for  the  committee  to  decide,  and  we  have  al- 
ready made  our  decision. 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES   IN   CALIFORNIA     1201 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testiniouy  you  are  about  to  give  be- 
fore this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  truth,  tlie  whole  truth,  and  nothing 
but  tlie  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  SixK.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OP  MARK  EUGENE  SINK,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  COUNSEL, 

ROSE  S.  ROSENBERG 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  name,  please,  Mr.  Sink  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  ]\Iark  Eugene  Sink. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  Will  counsel  please  identify  herself  for  tlie  record  ? 

Mrs.  Rosenberg.  Rose  S.  Rosenberg. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Sink  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  I  was  born  in  1920  in  the  State  of  Indiana. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliere  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  In  Santa  Monica,  Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  California  ? 

Ur.  Sink.  Since  1947. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  the  committee,  please,  your  educa- 
tional background,  a  brief  statement  ? 

JNIr.  Sink.  I  received  a  Bachelor  of  Fine  Arts  degree  from  Carnegie 
Institute  of  Technology  in  1942.  I  have  completed  two  years  at 
Santa  Monica  City  College,  and  I  have  completed  one  month  at  the 
University  of  California  at  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  complete  that  one  month  ? 

Mv.  Sink.  As  of  today, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  learned  of  the  existence  of  28 
units  of  the  Communist  Party  comprising  the  Southern  California 
District  of  the  Conununist  Party.  We  have  received  testimony  that 
there  is  a  club  of  the  Conununist  Party  at  Santa  Monica  at  this 
time,  constituting  one  of  those  28  units.  Are  you  a  member  of  that 
unit  of  the  Communist  Party  at  this  time  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  basis  of  the  fii*st 
and  fifth  amendments  to  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  of 
America. 

Mr.  Ta'v^nner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  whether  or  not 
you  have  ever  been  in  the  undergTound  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
this  area?  Were  you  ever  assigned  to  an  underground  unit  of  the 
Connnunist  Party? 

Mr.  Sink.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  basis. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
in  this  area  as  long  ago  as  1950  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Do  you  mean  continuously  since  that  period  of  time? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  I  didn't  ask  him  that.     But  I  probably  should. 

Have  you  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  continuously 
since  1950? 

Mr.  Sink.  Again,  I  decline  to  answer  any  questions  as  to  my  beliefs 
or  my  political  activities  or  any  organizations  that  I  may  have  been 
a^ffiliated  with  on  the  basis  of  the  first  and  fifth  amendments. 

Mr.  Moulder.  May  I  ask  this:  Do  you  consider  the  Communist 
Party,  as  it  exists  in  this  country,  a  political  party  ? 
Mr.  Sink.  Are  you  asking  my  opinion  ? 


1202    lAVESTIGATlON    OF   COIVIMU^JIST   ACTIVITIES  IN   CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Moulder.  Yes. 

Mr.  SixK.  I  decline  to  discuss  my  opinions  Avith  anyone  on  this 
committee  at  this  time  or  at  any  other  time. 

Mr.  Moulder.  How  can  you  take  tlie  position  that  you  decline  to 
answer  (questions  on  the  basis  that  you  have  the  right  to  keep  your 
political  affiliations  secret  and  that  we  have  no  right  to  delve  into  it 
or  ask  you  questions  concerning  it,  if  you  also  take  the  position  that 
you  can  not  tell  us  wliether  or  not  the  Communist  Party  is  a  political 
party.  It  seems  rather  inconsistent.  You  can't  take  both  sides  of 
that. 

Mr.  Sink.  I  choose  to  claim  tlie  protection  of  the  first  and  fifth 
amendments  on  this  question  at  tliis  time. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  one  question  only.  Do  you  consider  the  annual 
drive  to  raise  funds  to  combat  cancer  to  be  a  desirable  thing  or  not? 

Mr.  Sink.  It  was  my  understanding  that  the  committee  was  after 
facts  and  not  opinions.    Are  you  asking  me  my  opinion  on  this  matter  ? 

Mr.  Jacksox^.  I  am  simply  testing  your  good  faith  in  the  use  of  the 
amendments  which  you  have  invoked, 

Mr.  Sink.  If  you  have  a  question,  please  state  it  to  me  as  a  question. 

Mr.  Jacksox^.  I  have  stated  to  you,  do  you  consider  that  this  is  a 
good  thing,  to  raise  f  mids  for  the  drive  against  cancer  ? 

Mr.  Six^K.  As  I  have  stated,  I  do  not  choose  to  discuss  any  of  my 
personal  opinions  with  you  in  this  forum. 

Mr.  Jacksox^.  You  decline  to  answer  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Six'^K.  I  have  declined  to  discuss  my  opinions  with  you  in  this 
forum. 

Mr.  Jacksox".  And  you  decline  to  answer  the  question  ?  There  is  a 
question  pending. 

Mr.  Sink.  May  I  ask  the  pertinency  of  this  question  ? 

Mr.  Jacksox^  Yes,  testing  your  good  faith  with  reference  to  the  use 
of  the  amendments  to  the  Constitution  which  you  have  invoked. 

I  will  withdraw  the  question. 

Let  me  put  it  in  a  different  way :  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Ku  Klux 
Klan? 

Mr.  SixK.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  basis  of  the  first  and  fifth, 
also. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Y.M.C.A.  ? 

Mr.  Sink.  I  would  like  to  ask  the  pertinency  of  this  question  ? 

Mr.  Jacksox^.  To  test  your  good  faith  in  taking  the  constitutional 
provisions. 

Mr.  Six-^K.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  basis  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Jacksox-^.  Do  you  seriously  contend  that  to  give  me  a  truthful 
answer  as  to  whether  you  are  a  member  of  the  Y.M.C.A.  would  tend 
to  make  you  liable  to  criminal  prosecution? 

Mr.  SiXK.  I  can  only  claim  my  constitutional  privileges  as  guar- 
anteed me  in  respect  to  any  organizations,  which  I  may  or  may  not 
have  belonged  to. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  will  take  respectful  difference  with  you  and  say 
that  to  use  the  constitutional  prerogatives  in  answer  to  whether  or  not 
you  are  a  Boy  Scout  is  a  violation  of  every  concept  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment I  have  ever  heard. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1263 

Mr.  Sink.  I  consider  that  in  this  fornni  it  is  dangerous  to  discuss 
any  afliliation  or  any  association  of  any  kind. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  believe  if  you  were  to  tell  me  that  you  were 
an  athletic  instructor,  a  member  of  the  Y.M.C.A.,  it  would  lay  you 
open  to  prosecution  on  a  criminal  charge? 

Mr.  Sink.  If  this  question  is  not  pertinent,  there  is  no  reason  for 
me  to  answer  this  question. 

Mr.  Jackson.  One  of  the  most  pertinent  questions  I  have  asked  to- 
day, because  I  want  to  find  out 

Mr.  Sink.  I  haven't  finished,  please. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Sink.  If  this  question  is  not  pertinent,  then,  of  course,  I  am  not 
required  to  answer.  But  if  it  is  pertinent  then  I  claim  the  privilege 
of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  consider  it  very  pertinent.  I  consider  it  pertinent 
inasmuch  as  it  relates  to  the  good  faith  in  which  you  invoke  the  provi- 
sions of  the  fifth  amendment. 

The  fifth  amendment  provides  that  no  one  shall  be  required  to  give 
testimony  against  himself  which  may  result  in  a  criminal  action 
against  him  or  place  him  in  jeopardy. 

Wlien  you  refuse  to  answer  my  question  as  to  whether  or  not  you 
are  a  member  of  the  Y.M.C.A.,  the  Young  Men's  Christian  Associa- 
tion, and  you  invoke  the  fifth  amendment,  it  is  like  a  schoolchild 
taking  the  fifth  amendment  after  breaking  a  window  in  the  school- 
house.  It  is  not,  I  contend,  taken  in  good  faith,  and  it  is  very  relevant 
and  very  pertinent  to  ask  you  this  question. 

Mr.  Sink.  You  are  raising  questions  which  I,  inasmuch  as  I  am  not 
a  lawyer,  I  cannot  discuss.  I  would  like  the  privilege  of  my  lawyer 
to  present  this  point  of  view. 

Mr.  Jackson.  No.  I  am  asking  you  a  question.  Your  counsel  has 
every  right  to  advise  you,  as  your  counsel  knows.  She  has  represented 
a  great  many  witnesses  before  this  committee.  You  can,  of  course, 
persist  in  your  declination  to  answer  whether  or  not  you  are  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Y.M.C.A.  by  invoking  the  provisions  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment to  the  United  States  Constitution.  Invocations  of  this  kind 
before  a  Senate  Committee  and  House  Committee  and  school  boards 
and  other  authorities  throughout  this  country  have  served  to  bring 
a  great  amendment  into  very  low  repute. 

I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  is  excused. 

Call  the  next  witness. 

Mr.  Taa^nner.  Mr.  Jack  Burstein. 

Mr.  Moulder.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  subconnnittee  sliall  be  the  truth,  the  whole 
truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  JAMES  "JACK"  BURSTEIN,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
COUNSEL,  A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr,  WiRiN.  This  witness  is  quite  deaf  in  his  left  ear. 

Mr.  Moulder.  So  am  I. 

Mr.  WiRiN.  You  don't  have  to  sit  as  close  to  me  as  he  does. 


1264    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenker.  Will  you  state  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  BrRSTEix.  James  Burstein. 

Mr.  Tam3Nner.  Will  counsel  accompanying  the  witness  please  iden- 
tify himself  ? 

Mr.  WiRiN.  A.  L.  Wirin.    This  is  my  last  Avitness  this  afternoon. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Burstein  ? 

Mr.  BuRSTEix.  Detroit,  Mich.,  OctobarlS,  1916. 

jNIr.  Tavexner,  Where  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  California  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  Since  1940. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  Liquor  clerk. 

Mr.  Ta^tnner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  your  educational 
training  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  Yes,  grammar  school,  high  school,  and  3  years  of 
college. 

Mr.  Ta'\t:xxer.  The  committee  has  been  undertaking  to  determine 
what  present  activities  of  the  rejuvenated  Communist  Party  are  in 
Southern  California.  We  have  learned  of  the  existence  of  28  units 
of  the  Communist  Party,  apparently,  tightly  organized;  and  pre- 
paratory to  our  asking  you  questions  regarding  the  activities  of  these 
units,  I  want  to  ask  you,  first,  whether  or  not  you  are  a  member  of 
one  of  them. 

]\rr.  Bursteix.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  first  and 
fifth  amendments. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party, 
of  any  unit  ? 

Mr.  Bursteix.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Burstein.  Same  answer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  quite  apparent,  Mr.  Chairman,  there  is  no  use 
asking  him  questions  if  he  i-efuses  to  answer  regarding  his  member- 
ship. 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  witness  is  excused. 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  be  excused,  too  ? 

Mr.  Moulder.  You  are  excused,  too. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  IMay  we  have  five  minutes  ? 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  a  period  of  5 
minutes. 

(Short  recess  taken.) 

Mr.  Moulder.  The  next,  please,  INIr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Adele  Silva,  will  you  take  the  stand,  please? 

Mr.  ]\[oiLDER.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole 
truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ADELE  KEONICK  SILVA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Silva,  will  you  state  your  name,  please? 

Mi-s.  Silva.  My  name  is  Adele  Kronick  Silva. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliere  do  you  now  reside,  Mrs.  Silva? 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES   IN   CALIFORNIA     1265 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Oakland,  Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenni:r.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 
Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes;  I  have  been. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  what  period  of  time  were  you  a  member? 
Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  was  a  member  of  the  Commmiist  Party  part  of  the 
year  of  1949  and  most  of  the  year  of  1950. 

Mr.  Ta\t3XNer.  What  was  your  reason  for  joining  the  Communist 
Party,  how  did  it  happen  that  you  did  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  The  reason  for  joining  the  Communist  Party  started 
some  time  in  the  year  1948.  At  that  time  I  lived  in  the  Territory  of 
Hawaii  and  the  Communists,  through  the  I.L.W.U.  and  gi'oups  in  the 
Territory  there,  were  infiltrating  into  all  different  political  organiza- 
tions, and  I  was  a  member  of  one  of  the  organizations  they  infiltrated 
and  worked  very  arduously  to  keep  them  out. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Did  you  confer  with  the  Federal  Bureau  of  In- 
vestigation in  regard  to  the  matter  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  I  did.  I  and  my  brother  were  both  in  Hawaii  in 
1948.  We  continued  on  with  our  work.  We  were  going  to  get  the 
fate  that  Hitler  got,  and  I  relayed  this  message  to  the  F.B.I. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Well,  during  the  period  of  time  that  you  Avere 
actually  in  the  Communist  Party,  were  you  there  at  the  request  of 
the  Federal  Bureau  of  Invastigation  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Yes,  I  was,  and  at  my  request.  I  wondered  how  I 
could  get  in  to  help  my  country. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Tell  us  a  little  more  in  detail  what  led  up  to  your 
becoming  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  Silva.  Well,  I  spoke  to  the  F.B.I,  and  joined  other  organiza- 
tions in  Hawaii  and  found  that  the  work  that  was  being  done  was  at 
the  time  somewhat  ineffective,  not  in  the  F.B.I.,  but  in  the  organiza- 
tions. No  one  felt  the  need.  Possibly  I  was  young  and  these  people 
talked  to  me;  my  brother  was  interested  in  his  country,  his  Nation, 
and  he  felt  the  need,  too.  So,  in  talking  to  the  F.B.I.,  they  checked 
into  my  background  and  my  family,  and  they  thought  that  I  might  be 
able  to  follow  my  inclination  to  want  to  help,  and  I  made  a  round- 
about turn  and  went  into  the  Communist  Party  in  Hawaii,  the  Ha- 
waiian Civil  Liberties  Committee,  and  became  a  hard-working  member 
in  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  asked  to  become  associated  with  some  of 
the  prominent  Communists  in  Hawaii  ? 

ISIrs.  Silva.  Oh,  yes.  I  not  only  was  asked,  but  I  was  very  much 
accepted  by  them. 

I  felt  that  I  had  intimate  conversations  and  intimate  contacts  with 
Mr.  Jack  Hall,  Harriet  Boiislog,  Myer  Symonds,  friends  of  mine.  I 
am  not  pointing  them  out  as  Communists,  because  I  was  never  at  a 
Communist  meeting  with  Harriet  Bouslog  or  Myer  Symonds,  but  they 
were  representatives  of  the  Communist  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  to  Harriet  Bouslog,  she  has  been  identified  to 
this  committee  by  a  number  of  witnesses  as  having  been  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  and  having  served  on  a  lobbying  committee 
in  Congress  on  behalf  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  Silva.  From  her  activity  I  presumed  that  she  had  been,  but  I 
could  not  have  said  it  because  I  have  not  been  with  her. 


1266    INVESTIGATION  OF  COIVIJVIUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  What  about  Adele  Keusinger? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  She  was  a  Communist  and  wanted  me  to  join  the  Com- 
munist Party  when  I  came  to  California. 

Dr.  Reinecke  gave  me  letters  of  introduction  to  prominent  Com- 
munists in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Ta%^xner.  Dr.  Reinecke,  we  understood  very  well  from  our  in- 
vestigation conducted  in  Hawaii  in  1950,  was  ousted  as  a  professor 
at  the  university  there  because  of  his  Communist  Party  activities. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  don't  believe,  sir,  it  was  only  his  activities.  To  my 
knowledge,  he  conducted  schools  all  through  the  Territory  on  Marx- 
ism and  communism  and  was  using  the  school  system  in  Hawaii,  and 
not  making  any — he  wasn't  embarrassed  by  doing  it. 

Mr.  TA^'EX"NER.  You  say  you  received  letters  of  introduction  from 
him? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  I  did,  and  pictures  taken  of  him  with  various 
Communists  in  the  Territory.  So  I  came  on  to  Los  Angeles,  where  I 
had  lived,  where  I  had  a  home,  Hollywood  section.  I  felt  my  work 
would  be  more  effectual  if  I  came  on  here. 

]Mr.  TA^^:xxER.  So  you  came  here  armed  with  letters  of  introduc- 
tion from  the  leading  Communist  in  Hawaii  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  and  was  told  who  to  call.  If  I  didn't  have  letters, 
I  was  told  who  to  contact ;  and  I  had  become  acquainted  with  Celeste 
Strack,  who  was  an  educational  director  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
the  Territory  of  Hawaii,  and  went  to  many  social  affairs  with  Dr. 
Reinecke  when  she  was  there. 

She  told  me  when  I  came  to  San  Francisco  to  contact  her  for  in- 
structions. 

I  went  to  San  Francisco  and  contacted  her,  and  she  told  me  the 
steps  to  take  to  get  into  the  Communist  Party  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Well,  just  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  you  did 
in  Los  Angeles. 

Mrs.  Silva.  Well,  I  came  to  Los  Angeles,  and  apparently  the  mes- 
sage hadn't  come  from  Celeste  because  she  had  gone  to  New  York,  as 
she  said,  to  a  trial,  and  I  contacted  a  lady  who  she  said  to  call  and 
help  her  out,  Marva  Bovingdon  of  the  Civil  Rights  Congress. 

Mr.  Jacksox".  What  was  the  name  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Bovingdon. 

]\Ir.  Ta\t:xxer.  Spell  the  last  name. 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  believe  it  is  B-o-v-i-n-g-d-o-n.  Her  husband's  name 
is  John  Bovingdon.  And  I  contacted  her.  I  contacted  Lillian  Ripps, 
of  the  California  Labor  School. 

Mr.  TA^^EXXER.  Lillian  Ripps  of  the  California  Labor  School,  who 
was  an  intimate  friend  of  Celeste  Strack? 

What  is  her  name,  will  you  spell  it,  please? 

Mrs.  Silva.  R-i-p-p-s.     Shall  I  go  on? 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Yes ;  proceed. 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  did  some  work  for  the  Civil  Rights  Congress.  I 
didn't  feel  that  I  could  do  much  for  them;  I  wasn't  very  well  ac- 
quainted with  them. 

Lillian  Ripps  in  the  California  Labor  School  wanted  all  of  the  help 
that  seemed  to  be  possible  to  get,  and  I  became  acquainted  with  Mr. 
Hicks  and  Dr.  Goldner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  Mr.  Hicks'  first  name? 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES   IN  CALIFORNIA     1267 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Julian  Hicks,  and  Dr.  Sanford  Goldner,  California 
Labor  School.  He  is  a  director,  and  also  an  instructor  at  the  Cali- 
fornia Labor  School  of  Jewish  Studies,  which  they  were  starting:  in 
the  Wilshire  district  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  individuals  you  mentioned  were  known  to  you 
to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party ''. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  knew  them  to  be  friends  of  the  j^eople  who  were  Com- 
mmiists  in  Hawaii.  However,  at  that  time  I  did  not  say  that.  Nor 
did  it  become  known  they  were  Communists  until  sometime  later 
when  we  got  to  laiow  each  other  better. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Subsequently  you  determined  that  they  were  both 
members  of  the  Communist  Pai-ty  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  point  I  make  is  that  we  want  to  be  extremely 
careful  in  the  use  of  names,  unless  you  knew  them  to  be  members  of 
the  Communist  Party,  out  of  your  own  laiowledge. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  In  that  area,  sir,  early  this  morning  I  sat  down  and 
wrote  down  from  memory  those  people  whom  I  had  met.  I  said  to 
myself,  were  they  there  or  weren't  they  there.  Did  they  say  some- 
thing to  you  that  you  could  still  remember  that  Avould  be  important 
enough  to  relate  to  this  committee,  and  these  are  the  only  facts  I 
intend  to  present  today,  and  nothing  more. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Ta^^nner.  Will  you  just  proceed,  please,  with  what  took  place 
after  beginning  to  do  various  types  of  work  here  in  Los  Angeles  % 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Well,  I  was  active,  somewhat  active  at  the  California 
Labor  School.  At  that  time  they  were  on  West  Eighth  Street,  up- 
stairs from  the  Progressive  Book  Store,  and  I  was  starting  to  study 
some  communism  or  the  things  that  they  had  to  say,  and  I  was  in  the 
bookstore  quite  a  good  deal  and  had  occasion,  during  that  time,  to  have 
a  cup  of  coffee  or  a  sandwich  downstairs  with  Miss  Ripps  or  JSIr. 
Hicks. 

They  had  meetings  and  lectures.  I  took  several  of  their  coui"ses. 
In  fact,  I  took  courses  for  about  a  year  with  them,  and  one  day — of 
course,  my  whole  purpose  was,  I  hardly  could  believe  these  people 
were  actually  Communists  at  this  point.  I  heard  Celeste  Strack  say 
she  was  a  Communist  and  bragged  about  it  before  people. 

I  heard  Jack  Hall  say  that  he  was  going  to  the  Red  and  would  stay 
Red  all  of  his  life.  But  it  vras  difficult  to  believe  that  these  people, 
who  had  good  things,  were  Communists. 

I  thought  Communists  were  not  these  kind  of  fellows.  So  I  would 
sit  with  tliese  people  and  talk  Avitli  them. 

So  I,  by  that  time,  had  become  acquainted  with  tlie  man  in  the  book- 
store, the  Progressive  Book  Store.    His  name  was  Hank  Morley. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Hank  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Morley,  M-o-r-l-e-y. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Oh,  Morley. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  went  there.  He  gave  me  a  card,  and  I  signed  the 
card,  gave  him  my  address  and  my  phone  numbei-,  nnd  lie  said  tliat 
someone  would  be  in  touch  with  me. 

Several  days  went  by,  and  one  evening,  unannounced,  several  men 
came  to  my  dooi-  with  a  lady.  They  came  in,  they  walked  around 
my  house,  took  quite  an  appraisal  of  it,  and  they  instructed  me  to  be 


1268    ENVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

at  a  meetino-  of  the  Independent  Progressive  Party  that  evening  at 
the  home  of  a  Sylvia  Blankfort. 

Mr.  Jackson.  AVliere  were  you  living,  where  was  your  home  at  this 
time? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  My  home  was  at  14351/^  North  Crescent  Heights  Boule- 
vard in  Hollywood.    That  was  up  near  the  Strip. 

So  I  went  to  the  home  of  the  Blankforts,  and  one  of  these  gentle- 
men asked  me  for  fifty  cents  for  my  dues,  the  party  dues,  and  the 
other  one  asked  me  how  it  felt  to  be  a  Communist. 

Of  course,  I  said,  "I  feel  no  different  than  I  ever  felt  before.  I 
have  always  been  one  of  you.'' 

I  sta3'ed  at  the  meeting  and  they  drove  me — it  was  only  a  block, 
but  they  took  me  home,  and  they  told  me  to  be  at  the  home  of  Milton 
Konove  up  in  the  Woodrow  Wilson  Pleights. 
Mr.  Tavexner.  Spell  the  name,  please. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  K-o-n-o-v-e.     On  Saturday  night,  and  I  went  to  this 
home.    It  was  a  party ;  to  my  knowledge  at  the  time,  it  wasn't  a  party 
meeting. 
Mr.  Ta\'exxer.  It  was  or  was  not  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Xo ;  it  Avas  a  gathering  of  party  functionaries. 
Mr.  Tavenxer.  Let's  stop  there  just  a  moment.    Did  you  know  that 
]:)erson  to  he  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  that  time,  or  did 
you  learn  later  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  No.  He  was  the  gentleman  who  came  to  my  house  and 
I  ook  the  money  for  the  party  dues. 

And  at  this  home  Avas  a  Mr.  Emil  Freed,  and  he  spoke  about  his 
time,  being  in  prison  for  being  a  Communist;  and  they  all  spoke  of 
their  experiences  with  the  law  and  with  law  enforcement. 

And  I  came  on  home  with  a  lady  I  had  gone  up  with,  and  I  Avas  told 
(o  be  at  a  meeting  on  Wednesday  night,  and  that  would  be  my  party 
n  ight — the  niglit  to  be  at  my  club  meeting. 

On  Wednesday  night,  Wednesday  evening,  Mr.  Konove  stopped  by 
my  house  and  told  me  just  Avhere  tlie  meeting  would  be,  and  I  went 
over  there.  It  was  quite  close  to  Avliere  I  lived.  It  was  the  home  of 
Ben  and  Penny  Rinaldo,  at  the  meeting  house  project  in  the  Wilshire 
district. 

It  seems  I  came  in  at  a  time  Avheii  the  full  club  was  beinc:  reorgan- 
ized, new  members  were  coming  in,  some  were  being  switched  and 
some  Avere  being  sent  into  other  territories,  into  other  work;  and  I 
became  a  member  of  the  Theodore  Dreiser  Club  of  the  party. 
Mr.  Taa'enxer.  Theodore  Dreiser  Club  ? 
Mrs.  Silva.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Taat.xxer.  Noav,  Avill  you  tell  me  AAdiat  type  of  Avork  that  club 
was  engaged  in  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  SiLA'A.  At  that  time  they  Avere — I  AA^ould  say  that  they  Avere 
re-forming  their  club,  although  I  later  found  out  that  they  were  con- 
tinually re-forming  the  club  for  ncAv  action  and  new  actiA'ity. 

I  Avas  put  into  a  split  part  of  (he  club  which  was  a  cell,  as  I  knoAv 
it  to  be  noAV  and  shortly  thei-eafter,  and  our  activity  was  developed 
as  to  Avhat  the  orders  Avere  in  tlio  party,  what  articles  Ave  AA-ere  to  read — 
Mainstream,  Avhat  the,  People's  World  Avas  Avriting  about,  all  these 
things  Avere  correlated  by  our  educational  director — so  they  Avorked 
in  many  and  A'arious  things  and  continually. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA     1209 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  assignments,  if  any,  were  given  tlie  Commu- 
nist Party  members  in  addition  to  that? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  In  addition  to  that,  I  would  say  I  could  go  along  with 
this  gentleman  Avho  testified  before  lunch  today.  Ke  said  that  he  con- 
sidered, or  I  believe  he  meant  to  say  that  he  considered  working  for 
the  People's  World  was  part  of  his  mass  organizational  work,  and 
such  it  was,  as  a  Communist  member  myself.  Coming  to  the  meet- 
ing was  expected.  It  was  expected  of  me  because  I  had  been  a  member 
at  large.  I  was  not  a  professional  who  seemed  to  be  relieved  from 
coming  to  the  meetings.  Selling  the  People's  World,  getting  sub- 
scriptions was  expected.  We  reported  continually  on  the  sul)scrij)- 
tions  we  sold,  who  we  sold  them  to.     Buying  literature  was  expected. 

It  was  brought  to  the  club  in  boxes  this  size,  and  a  good  member 
bought  it  and  read  it  and  studied  it. 

These  were  all  the  things  that  you  just  did,  without  doing  any- 
thing else. 

Then,  on  top  of  that,  there  were  committees  continually  being- 
formed,  committees  to  do  various  types  of  things  to  further  these  aims 
that  were  being  laid  down  by  top  echelons  of  the  party,  coming 
through  the  literature,  which  was  then  decided,  how  to  activate  it  by 
the  section  organizers  and  the  section  educational  directors. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  various  members  of  the  party  go  out  into  mass 
organizations  to  carry  out  their  duties  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes.  There  was  a  time  in  the  early  part  of  1950 — and 
I  recall  this  meeting  most  specifically,  it  was  a  meeting  called  by 
Mr.  Kinaldo  himself.  He  was  the  president  or  the  chairman,  the  top 
commandant  of  our  ]3articular  part.  All  of  the  members — not  just 
the  cell  that  I  was  in,  maybe  eight  or  nine  people  and  myself — but 
members  from  the  Dreiser  Club,  which  maybe  were  25  or  30,  and  he 
took  us  to  task  for  the  things  that  were  not  being  done,  the  things 
that  had  to  be  done,  and  we  all  sat  and  had  a  round-table  discussion 
and  told  what  we  were  doing,  what  organizations  we  were  in,  what 
effect  we  were  having  in  these  organizations,  and  this  was  every  mem- 
ber of  the  club  that  was  present. 

There  were  a  few  members  not  present  at  the  time,  but  it  was  under- 
stood so-and-so  wasn't  there ;  he  is  at  his  organization.  He  won't  be 
here  tonight.  His  organization  is  having  a  meeting,  not  the  Commu- 
nist organization,  the  front  organization  that  he  was  working  with. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  was  it  the  understanding  that  each  member 
should  go  out  and  do  a  particular  work  in  mass  organizations? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  This  was  part  of  the  program,  and  it  was  laid  down  very 
strictly  by  our  chairman  and  by  our  educational  director  that  the 
party  had  to  get  busy  and  do  this  kind  of  work,  that  they  weren't 
doing  enough  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  it  is  important  for  us  to  understand  just  what 
character  of  work  these  members  were  doing,  that  is,  in  what  organ- 
izations they  were  working  and  how  they  got  into  them,  or  any  infor- 
mation that  you  can  give  us  as  to  that  type  of  objective  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  and,  in  telling  us  about  that,  give  us  the  names  of 
any  persons  that  you  know  were  engaged  in  any  particular  assign- 
ment of  that  character. 


J  270    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mrs.  Selva.  Well,  Mr.  Tiivenner,  that  Avould  have  covered  over  a 
year.  I  know  that  I  could  talk  on  and  on  and  on  for  days  as  to  vrhal 
these  people  did  and  what  they  Avere  doing. 

So  I  this  morning — if  the  committee  doesn't  mind — I  wrote  down 
one  organization  which  was  just  shocking  to  me  as  an  individual,  what 
was  being  done  and  how  they  organized  this  one  organization.  If  you 
AA-ouldn't  mind,  it  Avould  help  me  if  I  could  kind  of  go  along  with  my 
notes. 

]\Ir.  Tavexner.  Surely. 

]\Irs.  SiLVA.  One  reason  why  this  was  shocking  to  me,  because,  as  a 
Jewess,  I  Avas  sent  in  to  organize  a  group  of  JeAvish  people.  We  Avere 
using  Jewish  organizations,  innocent  organizations,  fine  organizations, 
which  I  knew  OA'er  the  history  of  my  entire  family  we  had  supported, 
that  were  not  Communist,  kneAv  one  to  haA^e  been  a  beneficial  society 
at  one  time,  helping  people  out  of  work,  who  were  sick;  and  Avhen  I 
sat  at  the  meeting  and  found  out,  as  time  Avent  on,  that  all  of  these  dif- 
ferent comrades  had  to  tell  Avhat  clubs  they  were  in,  Avhat  they  AA^ere 
doing,  and  for  that  purpose,  it  Avas  so  shocking  and  traumatic  to  me 
that  I  haA^e  never  forgotten  it. 

I  haA'e  put  it  doAvn  here,  member  to  member,  a]id  then  I  could  tell  you 
about  how  Ave  were  taught  and  had  to  go  into  these  clubs  and  what  Ave 
did  to  organize  one  organization  alone. 

"Sir.  Tavenner.  Very  good. 

Mrs.  SiLA^A.  All  right, sir? 

Mr.  Taat:nnek,  Yes. 

Mrs.  Silva.  In  the  club  there  Avas  a  young  lady  named  Penny 
Rinaldo. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Perhaps  you  had  better  spell  these  names  for  the  re- 
})orter. 

Mrs.  SiLAA.  P-e-n-n-y  R-i-n-a-l-d-o  and  Ben  Rinaldo.  He  seemed 
to  be  the  apparent  chairman  of  the  Theodore  Dreiser  Club.  He  Avould 
attend  to  the  Arts,  Sciences  and  Professions  Council.  He  Avas  at  large. 
He  would  go  to  the  different  cells  on  Wednesday  night  to  see  how  Ave 
Avere  doing  in  our  club  meetings. 

So  Avhat  other  attachments  he  had,  I  do  not  knoAV. 

There  Avas  Rose  Marshall.  I  found  that  she  Avas  an  instructor  at  the 
California  Labor  School.  She  was  also  a  A^ery  vociferous  member  of 
the  Arts,  Sciences  and  Professions  Council.  She  also  Avas  going  to 
join  the  JeAvish  Peoples  Fraternal  Order. 

There  Avas  Bessie  Halpern,  who  Avas  a  secretary 

Mr.  Taa^nxer.  Spell  the  name. 

Mrs.  Silva.  H-a-1-p-e-r-n,  who  Avas  the  secretary  of  the  JeAvish  Peo- 
ples Fraternal  Order. 

NoAv,  from  Avliat  I  understand  and  Avhat  I  am  quite  sure  of,  most  of 
these  organizations  in  a  community  as  large  as  Los  Angeles  had 
Ijranclies,  so  these  people  Avould  have  1)een  in  only  the  branch  in  my 
neighborhood,  possibly  the  Avest  section  of  the  J.P.F.O. — it  might  have 
been  the  east  section.  So  I  could  possibly  assume  that  if  one  of  our 
comrades  from  Dreiser  Avas  going  to  the  J.P.F.O.  and  Avas  a  secre- 
tary there,  that  practically  every  J.P.F.O.  officer  Avho  had  been  with 
the  Communist  Party,  Avas  working  through  these  various  organiza- 
tions. But  I  speak  for  only  the  ones  that  I  knoAV  out  of  my  party  who 
said  in  my  presence  that  night  this  is  Avhere  they  were  working;  and 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1271 

we  were  on  the  hot  seat,  and  they  came  up  and  defended  themselves 
and  said  they  were  doing  enoii<»:h  work. 

There  is  Morris  Anatole,  who  was  head  of  a  Jewisli  veterans  grouj). 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Spell  the  name,  please. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  believe  it  is  A-n-a-t-o-l-e  or  A-n-o-t-o-l-e.  It  was 
Anatole. 

There  was  Jessie  ('arufo.  Her  husband  was  nn  oi-ganizer  in  tlie 
aircraft  iiidustry. 

There  was  Kuth  Offer,  who  was  attached  to  the  Arts,  Sciences  and 
Professions  Council. 

There  was  Fargo,  who  was  freed  from  the  meetings ;  he  came  maybe 
once  in  two  months  just  to  say  hello,  because  he  was  working  strictly 
within  the  Jewish  Peoples  Fraternal  Order. 

There  was  Irene  Hyer,  the  choral  group,  I  guess  we  would  call  thax, 
of  the  California  Labor  School. 

Sylvia  Blankfort,  Independent  Progressive  Party. 

There  was  a  young  man  whose  name  was  Hal.  I  don't  remeniuKi 
his  last  name — Daily  People's  World. 

^V  girl  named  Deborah  Weinberg,  Jewish  Hadassah,  Congress  of 
Jewish  Women;  she  was  affiliated  with  that. 

There  was  a  Ruth  Slade,  who  was  touring  Europe.  I  didn't  know 
what  her  affiliation  was. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  What  is  the  spelling? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  S-1-a-d-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understand  these  were  all  members  of  the  Dreiser 
Club  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  each  one  w'as. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  this  period  did  you  help  create  any  Com- 
munist Party  group  or  front  organization? 

Mrs.   SiLVA.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  During  this  particular  period  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ta\tenner.  TVIiile  you  were  a  member  of  the  Dreiser  Club  ? 

Mrs.   SiLVA.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Ta\-enner.  Will  you  tell  us  about  that,  please? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes.  I  helped  to  organize  and  create  the  West  Side 
Committee  Against  Renazification  of  Germany,  and  this  was  done  by  a 
call  to  my  home  by  Milton  Konove,  who  was  the  section  organizer"^  of 
the  Communist  Party,  Westside  Section  of  Los  Angeles. 

The  purpose  was,  following  up  these  meetings,  following  up  articles 
that  were  in  the  People's  World  and  New  Masses  that  the  party  was 
not  doing  effective  work  within  the  Jewish  groups,  as  effective  as 
the  party  wished  done. 

So  it  was  decided  to  organize  clubs  which  would  interest  the  Jewish 
people. 

As  a  Jewess,  I  know  that  the  Jewish  people  get  somewhat  shook  up 
when  they  hear  the  word  "naziism,"  or  all  of  these  things.  And  they 
used  this  particular  thing  for  the  purpose  of  using  the  emotions  of  the 
Jewish  people  to  get  them  involved  into  their  organizations. 

Now,  it  was  my  belief  that  they  didn't  want  them  all  as  Communists, 
but  in  going  into  the  groups  they  were  able  to  get  their  labors,  their- 
efforts,  their  projjaganda  over,  and  to  get  their  money,  to  get  their 
dues  from  them.     The  J.P.F.O.  would  give  so  much  of  their  dues  to 


1272    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

their  officers  who  were  Communists  to  buy  tickets  and  to  give  sub- 
scriptions. They  did  this  in  the  West  Side  Committee  Against 
Renazification  of  Germany. 

So  jMr.  Konove  told  me  that  I  "U'ould  be  relieved  from  my  work  in 
the  l^art}',  going  to  meetings,  while  I  Avorked  on  getting  this  committee 
headed  up  and  started. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  you  would  say  the  accomplishment  of  that 
group  was  to  tap  sources  of  revenue  that  otherwise  wouldn't  be  avail- 
able to  the  Communist  Party,  as  well  as  to  form  a  ground  for  recruit- 
ing members  in  the  Communist  Party  ? 

JNIrs.  SiLVA.  Exactly. 

Mr.  Jackson.  During  this  time  you  were  making  reports  to  the 
Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Yes,  I  was. 

Mr.  Jackson.  With  what  frequency  did  you  send  j^our  reports? 

;Mrs.  Silva.  Well,  when  I  had  something  that  I  thought  was  im- 
j)ortant,  that  I  thought  should  be  known,  I  would  get  it  to  them 
immediately — sometimes  the  next  day  or  a  couple  of  days  after, 
whenever  time  permitted  me  to,  I  would  have  my  report  and  deliver 
it  to  them. 

jSIr.  Jacksox.  Were  you  concurrently,  while  you  were  working  for 
the  Bureau,  working  in  any  other  occupation  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Oh,  yes.  I  was  working  as  a  bookkeeper.  I  was  not 
a  full-time  employee  of  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  had  meant  to  pursue  this  a  little  more.  We  hear  a 
lot  about  paid  informers  and  hirelings.  To  what  extent  did  the 
Bureau  help  you  meet  expenses?  Did  you  get  rich  working  for  the 
Bureau  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Well,  Congressman,  I  will  say  this:  If  I  didn't  work, 
or  when  I  was  ill  if  I  didn't  have  a  small  income  from  a  little  home 
that  I  owned,  and  hadn't  been  able  to  subsidize  myself,  believe  me, 
for  the  mass  of  the  Communist  Party- — because  they  thought  I  had  a 
little  something- — I  could  never  have  pursued  my  work.  I  knew  that 
I  took  my  resources  at  times;  I  couldn't  go  to  the  Bureau  and  say, 
"I  want  money  for  this,"  and  "I  want  money  for  that."  They  would 
say  to  me,  "AVe  just  can't  believe  that,  $25.00  to  give  to  the  Civil 
Rights  Congress." 

I  said,  "Yes,  but  they  told  me  they  wanted  fifty." 

I  went  to  dinners  at  Ciro's,  the  Beverly  Wilshire  Hotel.  I  had  to 
buy  clothes  like  these  other  people  were  wearing,  dress  just  as  well  as 
they  did.  The  members  of  my  party,  they  lived  better  than  I,  all 
of  them.  I  was  within  their  group,  and  I  tried  to  even  keep  up  to 
iheir  social  standards,  and  it  was  very  difficult  for  a  working  girl  to 
do  that. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  were  traveling  in  pretty  high-class  company 
around  Beverly  Hills.     Where  were  the  Beverly  Hills  meetings  held  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  When  we  got  together  to  form  the  West  Side  Commit- 
tee Against  Renazification  of  Germany,  we  met  at  a  person's 
swimming  pool.    The  maid  served  cocktails,  a  colored  maid. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Cocktails  served  by  a  maid  beside  a  swimming  pool  at 
a  Communist  Party  meeting  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  AAHiile  the  comrades  were  meeting  to  form  something  to 
Involve  the  Jews. 


INYESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1273 

Mr.  Jackson.  This  is  the  proletariat  revohition  brought  right  down 
to  cases.     How  many  attended  this  meeting? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  The  first  meeting,  there  were  about  five  of  us;  this 
man's  home,  tlie  next  meeting,  there  were  ten. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Beside  the  swimming  pool  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  No.  The  first  meeting  was  beside  the  swimming  pool. 
The  next  meeting  was  in  the  home. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  same  place  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  In  the  same  home,  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  There  were  servants  working  in  the  home  where  {lie 
party  was? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Yes,  served  dinner;  at  one  affair  there  was  a  cocktail 
]5arty  given  for  Dr.  Howard  Selsam,  who  was  the  educational  direc- 
tor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  name? 

Mrs.  Silva.  S-e-1-s-a-m,  given  by  a  gentleman  for  Howard  Selsam, 
who  was  the  educational  director  of  the  Jefferson  School  of  Social 
Science. 

Tliis  was  for  donations  to  keep  the  California  Labor  School  in 
business. 

There  was  a  party  at  his  home,  and  he  had  hired  a  bartender  for 
the  cocktail  party  given  at  his  private  home;  I  believe  it  is  on  June 
Street,  in  the  vevy  exclusive  Wilshire  neighborhood. 

Mr.  Jackson.  These  affairs  were  for  the  purpose  of  raising  funds 
for  various  Communist 

Mrs.  Silva.  At  times.  This  was  to  raise  funds  for  the  California 
Labor  School. 

Mr.  Jackson.  They  charged  for  various — ■ — 

Mrs.  Silva.  There  were  donations,  and  they  charged,  I  think  it  was 
$5  or  $7.50  for  the  ticket. 

Mr.  Jackson.  To  go  in? 

Mrs.  Silva.  To  the  dinner,  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Any  other  charges  while  you  were  there  ? 

JNIrs.  Silva.  There  were  donations  at  every  meeting,  mass  meeting, 
organizational  meeting,  except  the  time  at  the  party  meeting.  They 
didn't  ask  us  for  money  at  the  meeting.  The  hat  was  always  passed. 
Many  a  time  I  passed  the  hat  myself. 

Mr.  Jackson.  This  was  pretty  expensive  company  for  you  to  keep 
up  with,  wasn't  it  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  It  was,  it  certainly  was.  I  was  quite  shocked ;  in  fact, 
it  was  a  shocking  experience  to  find  that  they  were  exploiting  the 
working  people.  They  were  exploiting  the  Jewish  people.  They 
were  exploiting  the  Negro  people,  talking  from  both  sides  of  their 
faces,  and  yet  they  were  living  in  the  very  laps  of  luxury. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  the  Dreiser 
Club? 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  remained  a  member  of  the  Dreiser  Club  until  Sep- 
tember of  1050. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  transferred  then  to  another  club  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  No.  I  went  up  North.  My  mother  had  passed  away. 
My  family  wanted  me  home,  and  I  w^asn't  feeling  too  well.  I  found 
it  almost  impossible  to  keep  up  w^ith  my  duties  as  a  Communist,  keep 


1274    ESrVESTIGATION  OF  COMJVrUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

in  a  position  to  support  myself  and  to  work  for  the  Bureau,  and  so  I 
thought  that  I  had  done  all  I  possibly  could  and,  if  I  did  any  more, 
it  would  injure  my  health.  I  talked  to  the  Bureau  and  they  said  it 
would  be  all  right;  they  realized  that  my  health  was  suffering,  because 
I  worked  day  and  night  for  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  I  should  have  thought  the  least  the  F.B.I,  could  have 
done  would  be  to  transfer  you  down  to  Boyle  Heights  where  it  would 
be  a  little  cheaper  to  keep  up  with  the  "Joneskis." 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  presume  they  are  taking  as  much  money  out  of  the 
people  in  Boyle  Heights  as  they  are  taking  out  of  the  people  in  Bev- 
erly Hills. 

Mr.  JacksojSt.  But  in  smaller  bites. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  know,  but  it  would  hurt  them  just  as  much,  maybe 
in  smaller  amounts ;  these  people,  most  unsuspecting ;  they  don't  know- 
where  it  is  going. 

I  helped  count  the  money  that  was  given  when  they  took  the  money 
in  for  Dr.  Howard  Selsam  that  night,  and  someone  took  five  and 
someone  took  ten.  There  was  enough  taken  out  to  pay  for  the  hotel, 
the  Mayflower  Hotel,  and  the  next  day  I  spoke  to  Miss  Ripps,  and  she 
said  they  gathered  up  $117.00.  Now,  she  could  get  her  wages  and  they 
could  pay  Sanford  Goldner's  wages  that  particular  week;  they  had 
to  draw  against  wages.  This  was  a  dinner  to  get  the  wages  for  the 
people  who  were  running  the  California  Labor  School.  They  didn't 
care  about  the  David  Hedley  memorial.  They  used  David  Hedley 
and  all  of  these  things  to  further  their  own  needs. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  go  back  a  moment:  You  referred  to  this 
front  organization  which  you  helped  organize,  and  you  said  there 
were  some  three  or  four  people  who  came  to  your  home  where  you  did 
that  work  of  organizing. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  No,  sir.  Milton  Konove  came  to  my  home.  He  was 
the  section  organizer.  He  told  me — he  instructed  me,  rather,  and 
directed  me  to  meet  with  members  of  tlie  Shafi-an  Club,  the  Eva  Shaf- 
ran  Club  of  the  Communist  Party. 

I  was  to  meet  at  the  home  of  Jack  Flier  or  to  call  Jack  Flier,  whom 
I  did  know,  tell  him  that  I  was  calling  to  make  a  date  for  our  first 
meeting. 

Mr.  TA^^sNNER.  Spell  the  name  Flier. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  F-1-i-e-r,  and  he  told  me  Sylvia  Evanston,  whom  I 
knew,  would  be  there — I  knew  that  she  belonged  to  the  Shafran  Club 
because  she  had  already  told  me,  meeting  her  at  one  time,  that  she 
belonged  to  Shafran,  and  she  was  there. 

There  were  several,  about  two  other  people,  and  another  lady  came 
in. 

There  we  started  building  up  an  organization  that  had  no  name, 
that  had  no  format,  but  there  were  things  that  were  brought  in,  and 
we  decided  upon  a  name  and  how  to  get  the  thing  off  on  its  feet. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  do  you  recall  any  other  person  whose  name 
you  have  not  given  who  participated  in  that  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  a  Mr.  Morris  Linn  came  over  there,  and  I  recall 
these  names  because  I  wrote  down  the  officers  of  this  organization; 
we  elected  each  other  officers  that  night.  There  was  Jack  Flier,  who 
was  chairman ;  Morris  Linn,  treasurer. 

Mr.TAVENNER.  Linn? 


INVESTIGATION   OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITII^S  IN  CALIFORNIA    1275 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  L-i-n-n,  I  believe  it  is.  I  am  not  sure.  Robert  Metz- 
ger,  myself,  publicity  chairman,  and  a  lady  luimed  Sylvia  Major 
was  going  to  participate.  It  wasn't  until  the  brochures  were  printed — 
I  don't  know  if  she  ever  got  her  name  on  there.  I  think  it  was  taken 
off.  But  she  brought  all  of  the  material  necessary  for  us  to  use  to 
start  getting  this  organization  off  on  its  feet.  This  very  same  ma- 
terial had  been  circulated  through  the  ])ai'ty  club  the  week  before, 
when  I  was  at  the  Theodore  Dreiser  Club. 

I  would  like  to  go  a  little  bit  more  in  detail  about  this  connnittee. 
Would  it  be  all  right? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  In  meeting  this  handful  of  people,  they  were  to  go 
back — we  had  chosen  part  of  a  name  that  we  wanted ;  we  wanted  to 
appeal  to  the  Jewish  people,  particularly,  the  Jewish  people  on  the 
west  side.  This  was  a  movement  through  the  party  in  New  York 
already.  It  was  published  in  the  Cominform.  This  was  somewhat 
of  a  call  from  the  Communist  Party ;  and  we  got  this  pilot  group,  each 
one  of  us,  the  following  Monday,  were  to  meet  and  bring  one  more 
person  or  two  more  people  to  the  next  meeting,  and  they  were  to  be 
peo])le  brought  out  of  the  organization  that  they  belonged  to. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  "What  type  of  organization? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  want  to  make  this  clear:  It  wasn't  the  Communist 
organization,  because  we  were  already  sent  from  the  Communist  Party. 
We  would  have  already  been  there.  So  then  this  would  be  a  front 
organization  or  possibly  some  comrades  who  were  in  the  front  and 
active  in  the  front. 

At  this  next  meeting,  which  was  the  home  of  Morris  Linn — and 
this  is  one  of  the  homes  that  w^as  surrounded  by  a  very  lovely  swimming 
pool  and  most  comfortable — at  this  meeting  we  had  somewhat  of  a 
democratic  process  of  picking  a  name.  It  was  already  chosen  as  the 
West  Side  Committee  Against  Renazification  of  Germany,  and  a 
Mr.  Jack  Ayeroff  was  there. 

]\rr.  Ta^"enner.  Jack  who? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Ayeroff.  He  was  in  the  printing  business.  I  don't 
recall  the  name  of  the  organization  that  he  represented. 

Mr.  Jack  Flier  was,  I  believe,  on  the  Jewish  Veterans  Committee. 

Sylvia  Major  was  working  through  the  Jewish  Congress.     That's  it. 

That  night  at  that  meeting  Jack  Flier  came  in  and  told  us  that  he 
h;id  gotten  his  organization,  his  front  organization,  to  vote  $100  to 
the  West  Side  ( 'ommittee  Against  Eenazification  of  Germany.  Every- 
one subscribed  as  to  what  their  grou]'>  was  going  to  do,  that  had  gotten 
commitments.    We  were  sent  out  and  told  to  get  further  commitments. 

This  finally  built  itself  up  into  a  large  meeting  of  about  200  people 
at  the  Beverly  Hills  Hotel,  and  that  night  it  was  read  off  to  us  the 
commitments,  the  amount  of  money.  We  would  meet,  after  a  meeting 
like  this,  in  the  group  and  get  together ;  the  pilot  group  had  a  social 
contact  by  this  time. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  Communists? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  That's  right.  Those  who  met  tlie  first  time  under  the 
(liiection  of  Mr.  Konove — we  didn't  ever  ha^e  these  other  people  with 
us  lifter  the  meeting. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  wouldn't  want  to  let  them  in  on  the  fact  this  was 
a  Communist  operation;  it  would  hnxe  been  very  foolish? 


1276    DSrVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  CALIFORNIA 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  No.  There  might  have  been  some  who  might  have  been 
Avorking  in  these  organizations  that  were  not  known  as  Communists. 

Mr,  Jackson.  Let  me  get  this  thing  in  context  now  :  The  Communist 
Party  decided  to  start  a  movement  or  a  Committee  Against 
Kenazification  of  Germany  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  No.  They  didn't  decide  to  start  this.  They  were  in- 
structed to  involve  the  Jewish  people  in  this  particular  section,  and 
how  to  involve  them,  so  they  thought  up  this  committee. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  committee  was  to  be  the  agency  by  which  they 
Avere  to  be  brought  in  and  interested  in  the  committee,  non- 
Communists  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  other  words,  Communists  were  to  go  out  and  get 
to  non-Communists  and  bring  them  l^ack  in  and  use  their  per- 
suasion to  get  money  and  sell  tickets  and  get  funds  for  their  front 
organization;  and  it  all  builds  up  to  a  big  meeting  where  there  are 
200  people  there,  the  large  part  of  whom  were  not  Communists,  but 
who  were  honestly  concerned  about  the  renazification  of  Germany. 

After  the  non-Communists  went  home,  the  Conmiunists  sat  down 
and  talked  about  what  a  success  it  had  been. 

Mrs.  Silva.  It  was  a  greater  success  than  that.  It  was — they  were 
able  to  enlist  the  president — who  was  told  to  me  to  be  the  president — 
Mrs.  Sylvia,  president  of  Hadassah,  who  was  sending  out  all  of  their 
literature  for  them,  posted  over  the  Hadassah's  letterhead. 

Mr.  Jackson.  A  non-Communist  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  don't  know  what  she  was.  I  cannot  say.  You  could 
pick  up  the  phone  and  call  her  direct.  She  might  have  been  a  Com- 
munist at  large. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  no  knowledge  as  to  her  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  No,  I  didn't  meet  her,  never  saw  the  woman  at  any 
time.     She  never  made  an  appearance. 

Mr,  Jackson.  But  letters  did  go  out  over  her  signature  on  Hadassah 
stationery  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Yes,  yes,  the  mailing  list  and  the  names  of  all  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Hadassah.  To  belong  to  Hadassah,  the  Rotarians,  let  us 
say  they  belonged  to  the  Knights  of  Columbus,  to  get  something  en- 
dorsed by  any  organization  that  you  think  a  great  deal  of  gives  cre- 
dence and  importance  to  it,  and  it  became  important,  so  they  had  a 
mass  rally.  It  was  at  the  stadium  near  Farmers  Market.  I  had  to 
go  up — my  mother  had  passed  aw^ay  by  that  time.  She  had  been 
very  ill.  1  understand  that  there  were  over  2,000  people  at  this  par- 
ticular rally,  and  they  sold  tickets  and  took  donations  at  this  par- 
ticular rally.  This  all  started  from  direction  from  Milton  Konove 
to  get  something — it  came  out  of  a  directive,  as  I  said  before,  of  our 
party  chairman,  telling  us  we  weren't  doing  what  we  should  do  with 
our  mass  organization.  Here  we  sat  in  a  Jewish  neighborhood  section 
and  did  nothing  about  it.  And  this  was  the  ultimate  end.  This  was 
what  it  did.  I  am  sure  that  thousands  of  people  came  and  heard. 
There  was  to  be  an  annihilation  of  Jews— the  piclures  that  avcic 
^hown — Sylvia  Major  brought  picdiros 

Mr.  Tavknnkk.  Sy]  via  who  ? 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1277 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Major.  That  made  my  blood  curl.  We  were  reading 
again  all  about  the  Nuremberg  trials.  Yes,  they  happened  under 
fascism.  They  don't  happen  in  this  country,  but  these  were  the  things 
that  were  being  stimulated,  something  that  would  touch  the  hearts 
and  feelings  of  the  Jewish  people. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  know  what  disposition  was  made  of  the  funds 
derived  from  the  mass  meeting? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Well,  I  know  that  some  of  the  funds  were  going  to  Mr. 
Bob  Kenny  to  help  him  become  elected  to  Congress.  I  believe  it  was 
Congress  or  Senate. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Fmids  from  this  mass  meeting  went  into  a  i:)olitical 
campaign  to  help  in  the  election  of  a  candidate  for  public  office^ 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Plow  was  this  related  to,  or  equated  with,  the  renazi- 
fication  of  Germany  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  It  had  no  relationship  of  any  kind.  It  had  no  connec- 
tion of  any  kind.  The  only  connection  was  that  this  was  a  way  to  get 
money.  There  no  doubt  wer-e  people  who  wanted  to  get  paid.  Maybe 
the  California  Labor  School  got  some  of  it,  possibly  the  party  got 
some  of  it.  The  People's  World  had  big  ads,  so  we  could  pay  the  Peo- 
ple's World  ads.  They  could  get  their  lingers  into  it.  This  was  a 
chance  for  Mr.  Kenny  to  speak.  This  did  all  the  things  tlie  party 
wanted  done,  and  this 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  the  Communists  got 
lists  from  some  of  these  legitimate  organizations  of  their  membership  ? 

JNIrs.  Silva.  From  all  of  them.  They  had  them  from  the  Jewish 
Congress,  from  the  Hadassah.  They  had  them  from  the  National 
Council  of  Jewish  Women.  They  had  them  from  some  of  the  syna- 
gogues, from  everywhere.  You  wondered  just  how  they  Avere  getting 
them.  Of  course,  I  knew  they  had  plants  in  eveiything.  They  had  me 
planted  in  here,  and  they  had  the  next  person  planted  in  there.  They 
worked  until  they  became  officers,  until  they  finally  got  these  lists  out 
to  their  friends. 

Mr.  Ta\^nneb,  I  suppose  a  lot  of  the  members  have  always  won- 
dered hoAT  they  happened  to  be  getting  so  much  literature  of  a  certain 
character  ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Probably  so,  and  they  never  knew  where  it  was  coming 
f  rouL  They  thought  many  times  their  organization  was  backing  this. 
They  would  think  it  is  good.  They  get  something  in  the  mail.  It  says 
this  is  good.  Do  this  or  don't  do  it,  and  they  read  it  and  go  along 
with  it,  particularly  if  they  think — well,  if  they  are  president  or  chair- 
man of  an  organization.  I  know  15  years  ago  if  I  got  something 
from  an  organization  I  belonged  to,  I  would  assume  I  would  just  do 
Avhat  they  said;  I  thought  this  much  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  You  said  some  of  the  money  may  have  gone  to  the 
California  Labor  School.  Did  you  liaA^e  any  special  connection  or 
experience  Avith  the  Labor  School  ? 

Mrs.  SiLA^A.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  I  AA^ould  like  you  to  tell  us  about  that,  unless  you 
have  something  more  to  say  about  the  matter  we  have  just  been  dis- 
cussing. 


127S    INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Well,  I  don't  know.  T  hoi)e  T  hiive  made  myself  clear. 
I  have  tried  to  explain,  as  I  have  tiied  before,  to  point  ont  Avhat  the 
Commnnist  Party  club  is,  what  a  Communist-infiltrated  club  is,  what 
organizations  can  have  happen  to  them  and  has  had  happen  to  them 
through  m}^  experience.     This  was  one  classic  example  of  it. 

I  don't  know  if  I  have  made  myself  clear.    1  have  tried. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  would  say  I  think  this  is  one  of  the  clearest  exposi- 
tions I  have  ever  heard  of  how  a  few  dedicated  people  can  cari-y  out  a 
l)roje€t.  Mr.  Chairman,  it  could  very  well  be  a  lesson  to  every  Ameri- 
can to  watch  his  organizations  a  little  more  closely  than  many  Ameri- 
cans have  been  prone  to  do  in  the  past.  I  think  it  is  an  excellent 
exposition,  and  I  hope  that  it  has  wide  circulation  when  the  committee 
hearings  are  published. 

Too  many  Americans  are  apathetic  about  the  use  of  their  names 
and  their  organizations,  the  letterheads  of  their  organizations,  the 
purposes  to  which  they  lend  their  prestige,  and  I  personally  think 
this  is  one  of  the  most  graphic  examples  that  I  have  any  knowledge 
of,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  You  asked  me  about  the  California  Labor  School. 

I  spent  some  time  around  the  California  Labor  School.  That,  again, 
is  a  whole  other  story.  It  is  not  a  labor  school;  it  doesn't  teach  a 
craft  or  didn't  teach  a  craft  or  a  trade.    It  didn't  get  a  person  a  job. 

It  was  a  place  whei'e  they  could  get  out  (^onnnunist  propaganda. 
That's  all  I  found  at  the  Labor  School. 

I  took  a  course  in  journalism.  If  I  had  to  go  out  in  the  world  and 
make  a  living  from  what  I  learned  there,  I  could  never  have  eai-ned 
any  form  of  a  living. 

They  taught  inter}:) retative  dancing,  ceramics,  for  which  they  were 
getting  Federal  funds  inider  the  G.I.  Bill  of  Rights,  and  they  gave 
courses  all  with  a  real  down-the-line  left-hand  deal. 

While  around  there,  I  would  say  I  was  a  hard-working  Govern- 
ment agent,  and  learning  from  the  Communists  to  work  hard  in  an 
organization.  I  took  a  i)age  out  of  their  book  and  I  worked  hard  in 
their  organization,  so  I  went  down  to  the  Labor  School  and  gave  them 
a  lot  of  my  time,  filled  envelopes,  typed  letters,  and  sj^ent  money  on 
Lillian  Ripps,  this  one  and  the  next  one,  and  they  Avere  very  glad  to 
have  me  around  them.    So  I  got  to  know  a  great  deal  about  them. 

I  went  to  their  dinners,  their  parties,  their  club  meetings. 

After  being  around  there  foj-  a  while,  they  were  going  to  have  a 
meeting.  I  was  in  the  party  by  this  time.  They  knew  it,  because 
there  was  a  close  connection  between  the  party  and  the  Labor  School. 
By  this  time  I  wouldn't  be  addressing  envelopes  and  being  inside  theii- 
inner  sanctum  if  I  weren't  a  Connnunist  Party  meml)er.  I  was  in- 
vited to  an  afternoon  affair  to  be  held  at  the  home  of  a  Mr.  Hay, 
H-a-y.  I  believe  it  is  Harry  Hay.  He  was,  if  I  recall  properly,  a 
musical  teacher  of  some  kind,  and  I  was  at  his  home  for  the  purpose 
of  mapping  out  and  formulating  the  format  for  the  next  season's 
school  curricuhun.  At  this  meeting  with  the  instructors — one  of  the 
instructors  was  one  of  my  comrades,  Rose  Marshall — at  this  afternoon 
and  evening  meeting,  it  was  decided  how  Marxism  would  be  taught 
to  the  peoi)le  that  they  would  get  to  join  the  California  Lal)or  School. 
It  advertises  itself  as  a  school  to  help  the  working  man.  Peoi)le 
whom  I  had  met  befoi'e  and  after  thought  it  was  good  to  help  them 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1279 

develop  their  potential  in  life  ajid  bo  able  to  iiu'ioase  (heir  cainiii^s. 
Tliis  was  tlie  tiling  that  one  would  presume  it  was  d()in<i:.  Fi'oni  uiy 
experience  it  was  not  doino-  that  at  all.  It  was  completeiy  a  Mai'xist 
school. 

Mr.  Taxknner.  May  we  have  just  a  few  minutes  ^ 

Mr.  jNIouldek.  The  committee  will  recess  a  feAv  minutes. 

(Short  recess  taken.) 

Mr.  Jackson  (presiding).  The  committee  will  be  in  oidei'. 

The  witness  will  resume  the  witness  stand.  Mr.  Mouldei',  the 
chairman  of  the  subcommittee,  has  been  called  away  on  oflicial  busi- 
ness. The  chair  will  be  occupied  for  the  balance  of  the  hearings  by 
the  member  from  California. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  You  spoke  of  the  meeting  that  was  held  which  you 
attended,  regarding  the  curriculum  that  was  to  be  taught  the  suc- 
ceeding year. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  were  policies  of  the  California  Labor  School 
generally  settled  or  agreed  upon  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  I  speak  of  this  particular  meeting  for  setting  forth 
the  curi-iculum  for  that  term  coming  up.  At  the  meeting,  after  dinner 
was  served,  we  waited  for  a  while,  two  gentlemen  came  in,  and  we 
all  sat  down,  and  sitting  at  the  head  of  the  round  room,  the  room 
where  we  all  sat  around,  was  a  Dr.  Goldner,  director  of  the  school. 
Dr.  Sanford  Goldner, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  that  'l 

Mrs.  Silva.  G-o-l-d-n-e-r.  I  have  been  trying  to  spell  the  names, 
because  certainly  I  woidd  not  want  to  see  anyone  with  a  similar  name 
be  used  here,  because  it  would  be  a  terrible  thing  to  associate  them  with 
that. 

Sanford  Goldner,  G-o-l-d-n-e-r. 

There  was  Julian  Hicks,  there  was  Lillian  Eipps,  there  was  Rose 
Marshall,  there  was  Silan  Chan. 

Mr.  Ta^-enxer.  \s\\o  is  that ? 

Mrs.  Silva.  Silan  Chan,  I  think,  or  Chin ;  C-h-a-n,  I  believe  it  could 
be.  She  was  teaching  interpretative  dancing  at  the  school.  There 
was  Farol,  the  Harbor  Division  of  the  California  Labor  School.  That 
was  down  in  Wilmington  or  San  Pedro. 

There  was  Harry  Hay  in  whose  home  this  meeting  was  held. 
There  was  his  wife,  whose  first  name  I  don't  know.  There  was  myself. 
Let  me  look  at  my  review  here  and  see  if  there  were  any  others. 

There  was  Marva  Bovingdon,  who  was  on  the  faculty,  or  her  hus- 
band, John,  who  was  on  the  faculty.  John  had  been  on  the  faculty 
before. 

There  was  a  chap  named  John,  whose  name  I  do  not  recall  and  a 
man  by  the  name  of  Welanko.  Sitting  on  the  other  end,  all  the  way 
towards  the  end  of  Dr.  Goldner,  was  Mr.  Henry  Black,  who  I  will 
identify  in  a  few  moments,  and  a  Mr.  William  Taylor. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Can  you  further  identify  Mr.  Taylor? 

Mrs.  Silva.  I  can  identify  him  this  way,  that  I  didn't  presume  that 
these  people  were  any  such  thing,  but  we  introduced  ourselves,  and 
Dr.  Goldner  introduced  himself.  Julian  said  what  he  was,  Lillian 
said  what  she  was,  and  I  said  what  1  was,  and  we  got  around  to  Mr. 
Henry  Black,  and  he  said  he  was  a  librarian  of  the  Jefferson  School  of 


1280    INVESTIGATION  OF  COM]VrUNIST   ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Social  Science,  and  there  was  Mr.  William  Taylor,  who  was  the  educa- 
tional director  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  They  are  not  uncommon  names. 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  So  in  round-table  discussion  each  one  talked  about 
whether  Marxism  was  being  taught  the  right  way,  not  whether  it  was 
being  taught  theoretically  the  right  way,  but  whether  it  was  being 
taught  the  way  it  was  getting  to  the  people  in  the  school,  and  whether 
it  was  going  to  get  more  people  in  the  school,  how  to  teach  it  to  get 
more  people,  more  members. 

It  was  wliether  it  would  be  implied  Marxism,  implication  and 
theory,  or  whether  they  were  going  to  come  right  out  and  say  this 
is  Karl  i\Iarx  and  this  is  a  revolutionary  thing,  and  you  are  going  to 
go  after  this  and  you  are  going  to  do  this,  or  whether  it  was  going  to 
be  watered  down,  and  this  was  the  word  used,  or  we  were  going  to 
build  it  up.  And  finally  it  came  around  to  Mr.  William  Taylor,  and 
he  said  this  is  what  the  party  wants  out  of  the  school,  and  there  was 
no  longer  any  doubt  in  my  mind  that  the  California  Labor  School 
was  a  school  run  by  the  Communist  Party. 

Now,  I  don't  say  that  this  was  the  only  school  run  by  the  Commu- 
nist Party ;  this  was  the  kind  of  a  school  that  Joe  Doe  or  Mary  Doe — I 
am  just  using  names  that  I  hope  are  not  existent — they  wanted  to  get 
these  people  to  the  school  and  keep  a  certain  front  up.  This  is  not 
the  other  school  that  I  had  started  to  go  to  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.  I  went  to  the  California  Labor  School  and  I  was  put 
as  a  student  adviser.  I  am  sure  I  Avas  a  very  poor  adviser  to  the 
students  there,  because  I  coiddn't  advise  them  heartfully  to  go  to 
C^alifornia  Labor  School. 

While  I  was  in  the  party,  Mr.  Morris  Anatole  and  Milton  Konove 
told  me  that  they  wanted  me  to  go  to  the  school  where  I  would  learn 
strategy  and  tactics;  and  from  week  to  week,  each  week  I  was  going 
to  be  told  where  to  go,  and  finally  one  dusky  evening  I  was  told  this 
is  the  night  to  go,  Tuesday  night,  and  I  dropped  everything.  He 
stopped  by  the  house  and — he  went  to  the  house  and  let  me  off;  he 
told  me  to  walk  up  a  block,  go  around  the  corner  another  block,  around 
the  corner  another  block,  and  then  go  to  a  home  which  had  a  back 
stairs — this  sounds  almost  like  something  out  of  a  page  of  fiction,  but 
it  is  so — and  go  up  the  back  stairs  and  go  into  this  apartment,  there 
would  be  a  girl  there,  a  couple  of  other  people,  and  there  we  would 
have  a  class. 

And  when  I  got  there  he  was  already  there.  I  went  over  alone,  and 
he  went  alone,  and  this  other  lady  was  there,  and  a  very  sad  part  to 
find  was  Ruth  Greenberg  was  there,  and  she  was  one  of  the  officers,  I 
understood  to  be  an  officer  of  the  Pioneer  Women's  club.  She  was 
at  this  little  class  taking  tactics  and  strateg3^ 

I  went  to  this  class  twice  and  I  went  home  ill  and  very,  very  sick 
and  I  couldn't  lend  myself  to  it  any  longer,  and  it  was  just  by  that 
time  that  I  retired  from  my  work.  I  didn't  want  to  know  their 
strategy  and  I  didn't  want  to  know  their  tactics,  because  I  know  I 
could  never  do  it;  I  could  never  be  a  counterspy.  I  was  completely 
for  my  Government  and  my  people  and  I  just  think  it  was  terrible. 
So  I  didn't  pursue  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  leave  then  and  go  to  San  Francisco? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Yes,  I  did.     I  went  back  home  to  Oakland. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA    1281 

Mr.  Tavennek.  I  failed  to  ask  you,  as  1  usually  ask  witnesses,  what 
your  occupations  have  been.  I  think  you  have  been  a  public  account- 
ant, haven  t  you  ? 

Mrs.  SiLVA,  Yes.  I  am  a  public  accountant  and  after  I  left  the 
party,  my  work  at  the  Bureau,  I  wanted  to  further  my  studies,  and 
I  Avent  to  nursino-  school.  I  did  nursing  for  a  while,  and  now  I  am 
back  doing  accounting,  and  I  might  want  to  do  nursing  again. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Does  that  about  cover  your  knowledge  while  work- 
ing for  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation,  of  things  that  you  think 
would  be  pertinent  to  this  hearing? 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Well,  sir,  I  could  reiterate  another  meeting  and  another 
group  and  another  instruction  and  things  that  happened  in  Honolulu ; 
after  all,  a  year,  when  you  are  meeting  once  a  week  in  your  club  and 
you're  meeting  in  front  organizations  and  you  are  selling  tlie  Pe()})le's 
World,  many,  many  things  happen. 

Mr.  Jackson.  ( 'ounsel,  I  assume  the  witness  will  be  available  to  the 
committee  staff.  Tlie  hour  is  getting  late.  Do  you  have  any  more 
direct  questions  at  this  time  ? 

Mr.  Tavennek.  I  think  we  should  ask  her  to  give  the  benefit  of  that 
information  which  she  just  spoke  of  to  the  investigators  so  we  may 
make  a  record  of  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes.  You  will  be  willing  to  do  that,  confer  with  our 
investigator  ? 

Mrs.  Sieva.  Yes.  I  will  say  this:  I  have  not  felt  imposed  upon, 
cooperating  with  your  committee.  I  have  been  embarrassed  for  the 
people  who  refused  to  say  whether  they  were  or  were  not,  but  this  is 
party  strategy  and  party  tactics.  And  I  am  embarrassed  for  those  who 
might  be  of  my  faith  who  would  do  this  in  this  beautiful  country  of 
ours,  and  I  hope  that  they  don't  continue  to  pursue  that  sort  of  thing. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  were  not  here  yesterday.  I  addressed  a  brief 
statement  to  Mrs.  Marion  Miller,  who  appeared  and  who  had  also 
served,  as  you  served,  as  an  undei'cover  agent  within  the  Communist 
Party  for  a  Government  agency.  Those  of  us  who  have  served  for 
many  years  on  this  committee  have  listened  to  considerable  testimony 
from  people  who  have  undergone  the  same  experiences.  We  know  tlie 
personal  sacrifice  that  is  the  lot  of  those  who  do  this  work.  You 
will  be  berated  and  vilified  and  anathematized  by  the  comrades  be- 
cause you  have  seen  it  as  your  patriotic  duty  to  defend  American 
institutions.  That  is  the  lot  of  anyone  at  any  level  of  Government 
or  private  life,  from  housewife  to  J.  Edgar  Hoover,  wlio  undertakes 
to  combat  the  Communist  conspiracy. 

However,  speaking  on  behalf  of  the  committee,  the  committee 
staff,  and  your  Congi-ess,  I  want  to  express  our  appreciation  and  say 
to  you,  as  I  did  to  Mrs.  Miller  yesterday,  that  second  only  to  your 
service  to  your  counti^y  is  your  service  to  your  own  people,  the  Jewish 
people,  who  are  frequently  maligned  in  connection  with  their  activities 
in  the  Communist  Party. 

I  think  your  act  has  been  the  act  of  a  good  American,  and  you  leave 
the  committee  room  with  the  best  wishes  of  all  of  the  members  of  the 
committee  and,  I  am  confident,  the  vast  majority  of  the  people  in  the 
hearing  room.  There  may  be  a  few  exceptions,  but  I  wouldn't  worry 
about  them.     Thank  you  very  much. 


1282     INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  CALIFORNIA 

Mrs.  SiLVA.  Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  Chair  wishes  to  make  a  brief  statement  on  the 
conc'hision  of  the  current  hearinos. 

Until  such  time  as  the  testimony  taken  durino-  the  past  three  days 
can  be  evaluated  and  analyzed,  the*  subconunittee  will  not  be  in  a  posi- 
tion to  set  forth  its  general  tindings  nor  possible  recommendations  to 
the  full  committee.  Nonetheless,  several  general  conclusions  can  be 
drawn  from  the  testimony  of  the  witnesses  who  have  been  heard  to 
this  time. 

It  is  apparent  that  the  Communist  operation  nationally,  as  well  as 
the  local  groupments,  have  undertaken  a  reassessment  of  their  posi- 
tion and  of  the  methods  to  be  used  in  the  future  to  achieve  the  ultimate 
goals  of  the  Communist  conspiracy.  That  the  new  emphasis  on  cer- 
tain phases  of  Communist  tactics  has  unquestionably  caused  dispute 
and  dissension  in  the  ranks  of  party  workers  and  adherents,  resig- 
nations from  the  Communist  Party,  as  such,  should  not  be  interpreted 
as  mass  defection  from  Connnunist  principles.  The  main  stream  of 
Communist  doctrine  is  in  no  manner  influenced  by  minor  eddies  and 
whirlpools  along  its  edges,  and  the  entire  body  of  philosophy  continues 
to  move  toward  a  world  sea.  of  Red,  in  spite  of  occasional  ebb  and 
flow  in  the  tidal  basins  of  Marxian  philosophy. 

Communists  are  not  only  dedicated  fanatics,  but  they  have  per- 
fected their  techniques  of  confusion  and  frustration  to  near  perfec- 
tion. Those  who  have  followed  the  course  of  the  present  hearings  will 
recognize  the  continuing  intransigeance  of  individual  Communists,  a 
characteristic  which  has  marked  the  movement  since  its  inception. 
Direction,  tactics,  techniques,  and  personalities  may  change,  but  the 
basic  tenets  of  the  movement  remain  innnutable  and  dangerous  to  free 
governments  and  individual  liberty  under  law. 

The  testimony  of  those  witnesses  who  have  disclosed  to  the  sub- 
connnittee  facts  within  their  own  knowledge  concerning  the  operations 
of  Communists,  have  added  materially  to  the  general  knowledge 
possessed  by  the  American  public  of  the  operations  of  the  Communist 
movement  in  this  country.  The  connnittee  expresses  its  appreciation 
and  that  of  the  Congress  to  these  witnesses.  It  expresses  the  hope 
that  others  who  availed  themselves  of  their  constitutional  privileges 
not  to  testify  will,  in  the  months  or  the  years  ahead,  reassess  their 
positions  and  come  to  a  more  complete  recognition  of  what  most 
Americans  consider  to  be  their  own  responsibilities  as  American  citi- 
zens to  a  nation  which  has  assumed  world  leadership  against  political, 
economic,  and  military  aggression.  So  long  as  the  world  continues  to 
witness  Communist  aggression  on  the  move  in  Tibet,  North  Viet  Nam, 
and  on  the  frontiers  of  India,  we  must  continue  our  eternal  vigilance, 
to  insure  that  our  own  institutions  and  those  of  other  free  men  are  not 
i-endered  defenseless  by  the  machinations  of  the  conspiracy. 

The  printed  testimony  of  the  ])resent  hearings  will  be  available  on 
request  from  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  within 
the  next  several  weeks.  Those  desiring  copies  should  address  their 
request  to  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  House 
Office  Building,  Washington  25,  D.C. 

The  subcommittee  wishes  especially  to  express  its  appreciation  to 
the  press,  the  radio,  and  television,  who  have  given  coverage  to  the 
hearings;  to  the  U.S.  Marshal  and  to  the  deputy  marshals  who  have 


INVESTIGATION    OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES   IN   CALIFORNIA     1283 

bi't'ii  assijLi-iied  to  tlie  lieariiiiL;,"  room;  to  the  Slu'rill'  and  the  dopul  ies  of 
tlie  TjOS  Aiiavh's  County  Slierilf's  Odice;  to  (lie  Chief  of  Police  of  Los 
Aufjeles  and  to  tlie  Chief  of  Police  and  the  l*olice  Department  of  the 
City  of  Santa  Monica;  to  the  Superintendent,  of  J)nildin<rs  and  to 
other  P^ederal,  State,  and  local  agen("ies  which  have  made  it  possible  to 
conduct  these  hearintjs;  and  to  the  audience  which  has  cooperated  with 
the  committee. 

We  want  esi)ecially  to  ex[)ress  oiu-  a|)preciat  ion  to  Chief  .lud<i'e 
Peii-son  Hall  and  to  the  members  of  his  staff  for  their  fine  cooperation 
and  for  making-  available  the  Judjs^e's  chambers  for  the  use  of  the  com- 
mittee and  the  staff. 

The  connnittee  recoo-nizes  that  the  (piality  of  its  work  and  the  effec- 
tiveness of  its  recommendations  through  the  House  of  liepresenta- 
tives  must  be  founded  upon  the  careful  and  intelligent  performance 
of  duties  by  membei's  of  its  own  staff.  The  subcommittee  commends 
the  diligence  and  conscientious  preliminary  investigations  conducted 
by  William  Wheeler,  staff  investigator;  Donald  Appell,  special  inves- 
tigator assigned  to  these  hearings;  Mrs.  William  Wheeler;  and  Miss 
Patricia  Donnelly. 

The  subconnnittee  also  extends  its  appreciation  to  Mr.  Frank  Taven- 
ner,  committee  comisel. 

Those  persons  desiring  to  communicate  any  factual  information  re- 
garding subversive  activities  within  the  Southern  California  area  are 
encouraged  to  connnunicate  those  facts  to  the  Federal  Bureau  of  In- 
vestigation or  to  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  in 
Washington,  D.C. 

The  hearings  are  adjourned. 

(Whereui)on,  at  4:45  p.m.,  Thursday,  October  22,  1959,  the  hear- 
ings in  the  above-entitled  matter  were  closed.) 


INDEX 

Individuals 
A 

PllgC 

Alexander.    Ed V2'>1 

Allen,  Adele  (Mrs.  Booker  Van  Allen:  aka  Van  Allen) 1ir>2, 

1162,1168-1170  (testimony) 

Allen,  Booker  Van  (also  known  as  Van  Allen) 1152 

Anatole,    Morris 1271, 1280 

Avers,    Aaron . llHl 

Avers,  Gertrude    (Mrs.  Aaron  Avers) 1151 

Ayeroff,    Jack 1275 

B 

Baskin,    Jack 1213 

Baskin,  Virginia    (Mrs.  Jack  Baskin) 1213 

Bessie,   Daniel 1127-113;!    (testimony) 

Black,    Henry 127!) 

Blankfort,    Sylvia 12(>S,  1271 

Blumenkranz,  Bob.      (See  Brent,  Robert  Dnff. ) 
Blumenkranz,  Harriet.     {See  Brent,  Harriet.) 
Blumenkranz,  Walter  Duff.      (See  Brent,  Robert  Duff.) 

Booth,   Marlowe 1151 

Bouslog,    Harriet 12(55 

Bovingdon,   John 1266, 1270 

Boviugdon,   Marva    (Mrs.  John  Bovingdon) 1266,1270 

Bowers,    Henrietta 1151 

Bowers,   Noah . 1151 

Brent,  Harriet   (nee  Rappaport ;  Mrs.  Robert  Duff  Brent) 1151, 

1167.  1172. 1174-1177  (testimony) 

Brent,  Roliert  Duff  (  born  Walter  Duff  Blumenkranz) 1151. 

1171-1174  (te.stimony) ,  1176 

Brod.sky,  Merle 1141,  1142, 1148, 1155 

P>rodsky.  Se.vmour 1148 

Browder,    Ear! 1121 

Brown.  Susan 1150 

Burrell,  O.  E 1147 

Burstein,  James  (Jack) 1152.  1187,  126.3-1264  (testimony) 


Carlisle,  Harry 1202 

Carufo,  Jessie 1271 

Ceis,  Philip 1160 

Chan,  Silan 1270 

Chernin,  Rose.     ( See  Kusnitz,  Rose. ) 

Clark,  Joseph 1121, 1235 

Clinger,  Moiselle   (J.) 1133-1155  (testimony). 

1165.  1166-1169, 1173.  1176,  1177.  1181 

Cohen,  Aaron  K 112.5-1127  (testimony) 

Cohen,  Daniel  Francis 1118-1124  (testimony) 

Cohen,    Kalman 1125, 1126 

Connelly,  Dorothy  Healey.     {See  Healey,  Dorothy  Ray.) 

Cormack,    Charles 1151 

Cormack,  Teresa  (Mrs.  Charles  Cormack) 1151 


ii  INDEX 

D  ragp 

Di  Maria,  Samuel 118:^.1184 

Doraii.    Lillian 1198, 1202 

Drnmmoud,  Elaine 1141,  1142,  1148-1150,  1153 

Driimmond,  Gilbert  (Gil) 1141,1142,1147,1149,1150,1166-1167  (testimony) 

Dulles,  John   Foster 1121 

E 

Ellis,  Charles 1151 

Ellis,  Shirley   (Mrs.  Charles  Ellis) 1151 

Epstein,    Pauline 1201 

Erger,  Liz 1193 

Evanston,  Sylvia 1274 

F 

Fargo 1271 

Farol 1279 

Fenster,  Leo 1118, 1127, 1162 

Fleishman,  Stanlev 1201 

Fletcher,  Elizabeth 1148, 1150, 1151 

Flier,    Jack 1274,  1275 

Fogg.  Adaline 1151 

Forest,  Dorothv 1213 

Foster,  William  Z 1120-1122 

Frankel.  J.  Allan 1201 

Frankel.  Seymour 1201 

Freed,  Emil 1268 

Friedman.    Joe 1193.  1195 

G 

Gates,  John 1120-1122,  1235 

Geiselman,  Lucia.     (Sec  Kres,  Lucia.) 

Geiselman,  Paul.  Jr 1182-1187    (testimony) 

Geiselman,  Paul.  Sr 1184.1185 

Gilbert,  Pauline 1142 

Goldberg.  Murray    (Julius) 1149,  1150,  1162-1165    (testimony) 

Goldberg,  Terry  (Mrs.  Murray  Goldberg) 1149,  1150 

Goldner,  Sanford 1266.  1267,  1274,  1279 

Goodman,  Morris 1192,   1196 

Gordon,  Mary 11.36.  1140.  1144.  1145 

Gray,  William  P 1155 

Greenberg,    Ruth 1280 

H 

Hall.  Gus 1133 

Hall,  Jack 1265.  1267 

Hall,  Peirson   (M.) 1283 

Hall,  Ralph  (also  known  as  Carl  Swanson)___  1158-1162  (testimony),  1177,  1188 

Halpern,    Bessie 1270 

Hartle,  Barbara 11,58,  1151) 

Hay,  Harry 1278,  1279 

Hay,  Mrs.  Harry 1279 

Healey.  Dorothy  Ray  (Mrs.  Philip  Connelly;  nee  Rosenblum;  also  known 

as  Dorothy  Ray) 1116,  1122,  1126.  1128,  1169.  1105.  111)8,  1221,  1222.  1251 

Hecht,    Minnie 1195 

Hicks,  Julian 1266,  1207.  1279 

Hitchcock.  G.  P 1251 

Hoover,  J.  Edgar 1281 

Huff.    Henry 115!) 

Hyer,  Irene 1271 

Hyun,  David 1199, 1202 

H.vun.  Peter 1199,1202,  1204 


INDEX  lu 

K  l'"*-'*" 

Kagaii,  Milton UTy-llM   (te.stiiuony) 

Kenny,  Robert   (W.) l^^'^ 

Kensintfer,   Adele l-iGb 

Kessler,   Mike ll^'^ 

Kievits,  Elsa H'^^ 

Konove.  Milton 1268,1271,1272,  1274-1270,1280 

Kranen,  John  F 1186, 1187-118!>  (testimony) 

Kres,  Lucia  (nee  Geiseliuan) 1183,1185 

Krupin,   Nathan H'^-'^ 

Knsnitz,  Rose  (nee  Chernin) 111)8, 1191),  1202, 1205 

L 

Lebow,  Jerome 1195 

Lebow,  Phyllis 1195-1197, 1214-1219  (testimony) 

Lewis,  Walter  K 1120 

Lindesmith.  Rosalind 1149 

Linn,  Morris 1274, 1275 

Lipton,  Lawrence 1145, 1152 

Ludel,  Lennie 1151 

M 

Maas,  Eleanor  (Mrs.  AVilliam  L.  Maas ;  nee  Argula) 1219- 

1221  (testimony).  1228-1225  (testimony) 

Mahaney,  Wilbur  Lee 1184,  1185 

Major,  Sylvia 1275-1277 

Margolis,  Benjamin  (Ben) 1158,  1187,  1250 

Marshall,  Rose 1270,  1278,  1279 

McGowan,  James  George 1250-1253   (testimony) 

McGowan,    Jim 1151 

McGowan,  Lucille  (Mrs.  Jim  McGowan) 1151 

McLaughlin,  Bill 1151 

McLaughlin,  Goldie  (Mrs.  Bill  McLaughlin) 1151 

McTernan,  Anne  Perpicli 1202 

McTernan,  Francis  J 1219,  1223 

Metzger,    Robert 1275 

Miller,  Marion  (Mrs.  Paul  Miller) _  1189-1214  (testimony),  1215,  1227,  1228,  1281 

Miller,  Paul 1190,  1192,  1193,  1200,  1213 

Mitchell,    Hart 1142 

Morley,  Hank 1267 

X 

Norton,  William  Wallace,  Jr 1253-1260   (testimony) 

O 

Offer,   Ruth 1271 

Olson,  Ben.     (See  Olson,  John  Bennett.) 

Olson,    Dorothy    (Mrs.   John   Bennett  Olson;    also  known    as   Mrs.    Ben 

Olson) 1151 

Olson,  John  Bennett  (also  known  as  Ben  Olson) 1145.  1151 

Ornitz,  Donald 1221-1223  (testimony) 


Perpich,  Anne.     (See  McTernan,  Anne  Perpich.) 

Pestana,    Frank 1174 

Porter,  John 1201 

Poulson,   Harper    (W.) 1147.   1149,   1229-1250  (testimony) 

R 

Reinecke  (John  E.) 1266 

Rice,   Craig 1145 

Richards,  Silvia 1145,  1151 

Rinaldo,  Ben 12(38-1270 

Rinaldo,  Penny 1268,  1270 


tv  INDEX 

Page 

Kipps,  Lillian 120U.  1266,  1267,  1274,  1278,  1279 

Rivers,  Les 1146 

Rosenberg,  Ethel 1154 

Rosenberg,   Julius 1154 

Rosenberg,  Rose  S.  (Mrs.  Sol  Rosenberg) 1125, 

1151, 1171, 1177, 1179, 1181,  1182, 1201,  1261 

Rosenberg,  Sol 1151 

Rubin.  William 1155-1157  (testinioiiy) 

Kykoff.  Richard 1201 

S 

Samuels,   William 1201 

Sanford.  Charles 1251 

Sehaek,   David 1195 

Schack,    Nora 1195 

Scharf,    Ron 1151 

Scharf.  Mrs.  Ron 1151 

Schoiehet.  Nathan  L 1221 

Schulberg,    Budd 1146 

Schwartz,    Harry 1121 

Selsani,    Howard 1273, 1274 

Shafran,    Eva 1136 

Shandler,  Esther 1201 

Silva,  Adele  Kronick 1264-1281  (testimony) 

Sink.  Mark  Eugene 1261-1263  (testimony) 

Slade,  Ruth 1271 

Smith,  Delphine  Miu-phy 1191,1192,1198,1202 

Sniderman,  Ellaine  (Mrs.  Joe  Sniderman) 1150,1151 

Sniderman,  Joe 1150,1151,1181-1182  (testimony) 

Sproul,  Jean  Riibin 1142 

Strack.   Celeste 1266,  1267 

Swanson,  Carl.      {See  Hall,  Ralph.) 

Sylvia,   Mrs 1276 

Symonds,    Myer 1265 

T 

Tannenbauni.  Jerry 1152 

Taylor,  William 1279, 1280 

Tenner,     Jack 1201 

Timofeyev,    T 1121 

Titleman,  Elaine 1142 

Tobey,  Berkelev 1151 

Truman   (Harry  S.) 1257,1258 

V 

\au  Alien.      (Kcc  Allen,  Booker  Van.) 

W 

AVeinberg,  Deborah 1271 

Welanko   (Abraham) 1279 

Wells,  Lona 1152,  1177-1179  (testimony) 

AVhite,  Carl  F 1182 

Wilby,  Celia 1142,  1146 

Wildman.    Leonard 1160 

AVilkinson,    Frank 1204 

AVirin,  A.  L 1168,  1214,  1227-1228  (statement),  1229,  1253,  1263 

Y 

Yanez,  Josephine 1202 

Young,  Bill 1148 


INDEX  V 

Organization  8 

A  Pagft 

American  Civil  Liberties  Union 1210,  1211,  1227,  1228 

Southern  California 1228 

American  Committee  for  Protection  of  Foreign  Born 1189,  120.'J 

American  Peace  Crusade,  Southern  California  Peace  Crusade 12(>4 

Arts,    Sciences  and  Professions  Council.      {See  National  Council  of  the  Arts, 
Sciences,  and  Professions.) 

B 

B'nai    B'rith 1196 

Brentwood  Club 1213 


California  Emergency  Defense  Committee 1134,  1189,  1204 

California  Labor  School 1135,  1266,  1267,  1270,  1271,  1273,  1274,  1277-1280 

School  of  Jewish  Studies 1267 

Central  Labor  Council,  Santa  Monica 1148 

Citizens  Committee  to  Preserve  American  Freedoms 1203, 1204 

Civil  Rights  Congress  (Los  Angeles) 1191,  1204,  1260 

Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg  Case.  {See  entry  under 
National  Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg  Case,  Los  An- 
geles. ) 

Communist  Party,  Hawaii 1265, 1266 

Communist  Party,  Soviet  Union 1121 

Communist  Party,  USA : 
National  structure : 

National  Committee 1123 

Sixteenth  National  Convention,  February  ^12,  1957,  New  York 

City 1119-1122,  1130 

District  organization : 

Southern  California  District.  1116,  1122, 1126.  1221,  1231,  12.n.  1257,  1261 
Bay  Cities  Section.     {See  Western  Section.) 

Convention,  April  13-14,  1957,  Los  Angeles 1126, 1128 

District  Council 1119,  1127,  1185,  1221,  1231 

Western  Section  (also  known  as  Bay  Cities  Section) 1115. 

1116, 1126,  1127, 1133,  1156,  1163 

Educational  Committee 1181 

Labor    Club 1180 

Santa  Monica  Club 1174, 1261 

Venice  Club  (Venice.  Calif.) 1160,  1177,  1188.  12.")9,  1260 

State  organization : 
California : 

Fresno  County 1252 

Harbor  Section 1252 

Kings   County 1252 

Los  Angeles  County : 

County  Convention,  January  5-6,  1957,  Los  Angeles 1128, 

1167, 1188 

Eva  ShafranClub 1274 

Santa  Monica,  Cell  Within  Douglas  Aircraft  Co 1137, 

1138, 1140 

Theodore  Dreiser  Club 1268-1271,1273 

Western  Division 1177,  1188 

Executive  Committee 1185 

Mar  Vista  Club 1193-1195 

Sixteenth  Congressional  District,  Venice  Club 1252. 

1259. 1260 

West  Los  Angeles  Club 1194, 1195 

Westside  Section 1271 

Tulare   County 1252 

New  York  State 1121 

Bronx  Section 1188 

Washington  State 1158 

Congress  of  Industrial  Organizations 1137,  1138 

Congress  of  Jewish  Women 1271,  1275,  1277 


^  INDEX 

Democratic  Party,  Los  Angeles,  Calif IIJJ- 1144 

Douglas  Aircraft  Co 1134,1137-114- 

F 
Fund  for  the  Repiiblic ^~^l 

H 

Hadassah  (Los  Angeles  Chapter) 1271,  1276,  1277 

Hawaiian  Civil  Liberties  Committee ^-^^ 

I 

lndei>endent  Progressive  Party 1144,  lir.4, 1166,  1271 

Central  Committee —- j^^''  |f '^ 

International  Association  of  Machinists  (lAM) 113 '.  n^.s,  ii4rf 

J 

.Jefferson  School  of  Social  Science 1273,  1279,  1280 

Jewish  Peoples  Fraternal  Order ^'-'"'  |^';^ 

Jewish  War  Veterans  of  the  United  States -^-'-^ 

L 

Labor  Youth  League : .- — T"777w7T7  ^oa- 

Longshoremen's  and  Warehousemen's  Union.  International  (ILWU) Ubo 

LOS  Angeles  Committee  for  P-^ection  oi^For^ 

'  I'^O"' 

Steering    Committee -"  ~ 

Los  Angeles  Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg  Case.     (>c<> 
entry  under  National  Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg 

Lo?Angeles  Sobell  Committee.     (.Set-  entry  under  National  Committee  To 
Secure  Justice  for  Morton  Sobell  in  the  Rosenberg  Case.) 

N 
National   Association   for   the   Advancement    of    Colored    People,    Santa 


1147 

1204 
1204 


NaSafcomm"it^To"Seci^rrjGitTc;7o7^rortor7sob;^^^ 

CUSG     

Los  Angeles  Sobell  Committee — -,----- 

National  Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg  (  ase . 

Los  Angeles  Committee  To  Secure  Justice  in  the  Rosenberg  Case  1204 

Xaticmal  Council  of  Jewish  Women V-tI-V" --""^^nHirn  Cnli 

National  Coiuicil  of  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Professions,  feouthein  Cah_   ^^^^ 

fornia  Chapter ~         -    ,    - 

P 

Pioneer  Women's  Organization H-^O,  1212,  1213,  1280 

political  Prisoners  Welfare  Committee-         _-—-— ^-"* 

Progressive  Book  Shop  (or  Book  Store)   (Los  Angeles) ll.>^,  1-6^ 

Progressive  Youth  League,  Los  Angeles  County -^^-^^ 

S 

-1090 

San  Francisco  State  College I~~~,^~r-V~~~~~T'^^~rr. 

School  of  Jewish  Studies,  California,      {tiec  entry  under  California  Labor 

Southern  ^California  Peace  Crusade.     {See  entry  under  American  Peace 
Crusade. ) 

Thomas  Jefferson  Bookshop 1143,  1144 

Tom  Paine  School  of  Social  Science  (Philadelphia) li»4 


INDEX  vu 

PaK« 
riiiversity  of  California  at  Los  Anyoles 1-'"'l 

W 

West  Side  Committee  Against  Kenaziticatiou  uf  (Jeniiany   (Los  Angeles, 

(!alif.)__ - 1-'<1.  1^"^-  1-"' 

Y 

Younj?  Commimist  League.  ("alif(»rnia 1--'1 

('(mvention,  First  Annual  State,  Nov.  .V7,  15>37,  Los  Angeles 12.)1 

Young  Women's  Christian  Association  (YWCA)   (Los  Angeles) 319<> 

Publications 

Daily  People's  World 1244,  1247,  1248,  12U<.»,  1277 

Washington   State H^JO 

Daily  Worker 1121,  1235 

Korean  Independent 11^^''' 

New    Frontiers 1251 

Partiuaya  Zhizn 1121 

Sovetskaya  Rossiya 1121 

o 


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