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c-span.org or to download as a podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ntinues. host: we welcome back to the program rich lowry, he spent a lot of time thinking and writing about the college campus protests over israel and the war in gaza. they are not over yet. there is an article in the "wall street journal" about harvard, penn and m.i.t. are struggling to quell the protests, what do you think the lasting image of this wave of college campus protests this spring? guest: lasting image is a great question. tense as people with loudspeakers next to them is the image of this bout of protests. and quite shameful. the groups organizing them are

frankly imation asked in their aims against israel and we have heard a lot of hateful and disgusting things. and the administrators generally and there have exceptions, they have been very craven. the first reaction was we will give you a warning and then restou. and thethe faculty walks out in the support of the students and on the s comes right back and they are not arrested for two weeks and there are sets of negotiations and they end taking a building and on they really have to be arrested again. this is a blow to the reputation of elite and ivy league colleges. they had a lot of reputational capital to burn but they have burned a considerable amount of it. host: we showed this headline, the piece from the national review to the viewers in the previous segment calling it an advertisement for anti-americanism. what do you say to those folks who say protesting, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly

are quintessentially american values? guest: sure. yes. lawful protest is a fundamentally american value. but, these have not been lawful. the university of chicago which has handled this issue and free speech issues with incredible daftnes -- deftness, the president had a great letter pointing out the examples that several months ago pro-palestinian or pro-hamas students came to the administration saying that we want to to unfurl a huge palestinian flag on the quad and the administration said that is fine. you can do it for two days and you can have an information table and when people want to learn more they can talk to you and that is how you do it. you do not illegally occupy space where you are not allowed to encamp for good reason because it can be threatening it is a disruption, it requires a police presence that is better deployed elsewhere. all sorts of reasons.

but the people legality is the point and that is what makes it transgressive and makes it feel like more of a protest if you are breaking the rules. and the occasion for the headline of which you just read was the protest earlier this week in manhattan. they were going to be disrupt the met gala and they come across the world war i memorial and do they just pass by respectfully? no. they graffiti it and climb all over it with palestinian flags and burn in american flag at the base of the statue educated to the memory of these doughboys who sacrificed an incredible amount. that is an important collective commitment of the nation to honor and to remember such men. and i often do not praise new york city officials for their reflexive reactions to things. but they are absolutely right. they are so harsh about it as one deputy commissioner at the nypd call and heinous crime and eric adams had a press

conference and said we had to hunt these people down. the next day there was a street artist that put an american flag on it which is the appropriate response. host: will show viewers your tweefr wednesday when you went over there and took a picture of that memorial, the 107th memori. the world war merial. viewers can see it cleaned up and with the flag on it. this war between israel and hamas has been going on since october. why do you think these protests sprang up in the past three weeks? why has this come to a head on college campuses in the past three weeks seven months into the war? guest: that is a great question. there were protests in the immediate after -- there were not protests in the immediate aftermath, that within d days of the israel suffering unspeakable crimes against civilians, it was not like hamas was trying to

kill israeli soldiers. they would have killed and kidnapped many more if they had this in the immediate aftermath. after that anti-israel protests sprang up. this pressure has been building over time and the case against israel has been building over time based on the ridiculous charge and smear that israel is guilty of genocide. i am not sure exactly -- columbia was set off by the testimony of the columbia president before the house. she was trying to avoid the problem that her ivy league colleagues had had a couple lost their jobs after they sounded so wishy-washy. she tried to sound tougher but that set off this reaction among students or a faction of her own students. and then that, social media being what it is, the images spread and everyone else gets the idea and before you know its

a nationwide event. host: you are with us until 8:45 eastern time. here are the phone numbers. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. in holding a special line open for college students or professors or administrators, if you want to talk with rich lowry, 202-748-8003. i spoke -- as folks are calling and i want to take you to the senate floor from tuesday as senator bernie sanders talking

caller: how is it ok to kill thousands of these other people? how does this make sense?

it's like one of them needs something and the whole nation has to suffer. that doesn't make sense. guest: that's not as though israel is saying 1200 is really died, let's kill 1200 civilians in gaza. that's not what this is about. that would be deeply wrong. they are trying to root out hamas and the problem is hamas doesn't wear uniforms or fight like a lawful army. it hides among civilians and this is the key point, wants's to die, not just israeli civilians to die but civilians in gaza to die. they consider it a beautiful propaganda point and that turned bernie sanders against israel bit energized bernie sanders and others against israel and those civilian cats are hugely useful to hamas.

there's all sorts of things they can do to avoid them but they don't want to. warfare in a highly dense urban environment with an enemy that's using civilians as shields is going to be destructive and have all sorts of collateral consequences you don't want. that's ultimately on hamas. host: california, joe, good morning. caller: good morning, can you tell me the motto of mossad? host: do you know it? caller: yes i do, it's by way of deception they'll just that we shall create war. it's a commitment as an organization to do false flag. are you familiar with the term false flag? guest: i am. what's your theory? caller: my theory is that the good news is that benjamin netanyahu and mossad led 9/11 and attacked america. host: