Cornell University Library SB 354.C76 ceedings of a convention of fruit g AON A LT New York State College of Agriculture At Cornell University Ithaca, N. Y. Library “ON ‘asnoesks *241'SOUd GUOIVS { {yea ‘vores 4 ih i fg painjoofaunyy ry ' _ ir PROCEEDINGS OF A OF THE DOMINION OF CANADA HELD AT OTTAW A ON THE 19th, 20th AND 2lst FEBRUARY, 1890. OTTAWA: PRINTED BY BROWN CHAMBERLIN, PRINTER TO THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY, 1890. Cornell University Library The original of this book is in the Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924000276802 PROCEEDINGS OF A CONVENTION OF FRUIT GROWERS OF THE DOMINION OF CANADA HELD AT O'TTAW A ON THE 19th, 20th AND 2ist FEBRUARY, 1890. OTTAWA: PRINTED BY BROWN CHAMBERLIN, PRINTER TO THE QUEEN’S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY. 1890. INTRODUCTION. The bringing together of the representatives of the fruit interests of the Dom- inion, and the interest and enthusiasm manifested in the proceedings of the Conven? tion, cannot but be a source of gratification to all concerned. In the winter of 1887-8 the success attending the meeting of the Montreal Horticultural Society and Fruit Growers’ Association of the Province of Quebec, held in the city of Quebec, led the President of the Association, Prof. Penhallow, to suggest the desirability of bringing together, at Montreal, representatives of the various Provinces of the Dominion. The Provincial Associations were communicated with, and were unanimous in their favozr of the project. Application was made to the Dominion Government for a grant in aid of the work contemplated, and Messrs, Charles Gibb, A. McD. Allan, L. Woolverton and C, R. H. Starr took an active part in endeavouring to advance the project, but from various causes the work was not sufficiently advanced to convene the meeting during the winter of 1889. The following summer further efforts were made, and the application for a grant received the favourable consideration of the Hon. Mr, Carling and his colleagues, an appropriation being passed granting to the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture the sum of $2,000 “ to aid in the development of the fruit industry in Cunada.” Under the conditions of the grant it was found necessary to hold the Conven- tion at Ottawa, and the organization of the meeting was, by a vote of the Provincial Associations, placed in the hands of the Montreal Society. A committee, consisting of Prof. D. P. Penhallow, President; Messrs. R. W. Shepherd, jr., R. Brodie, A. Joyce, Rev. R. Hamilton and W. W. Dunlop, Secretary, was appointed, with Prof. W. Saunders and Mr. P. E. Bucke, of Ottawa, as local members. The committee was greatly aided in its work by the hearty co-operation of the various associations, and by the valuable assistance rendered by Prof. Saunders, Director of the Experimental Farms, and others. W. W. DUNLOP, Secretary. — i] CON VEN TION FRUIT GROWERS OF THE DOMINION OF CANADA HELD IN THE CITY HALL, AT OTTAWA. ON 191n, 20tu AND 21st FEBRUARY, 1890. First Day. The Convention met at 3 p.m., Professor D. P. Pennatiow, the President, in the Chair. There were present the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture; Prof, W. Saunders, Director Experimental Farms, Ottawa; P. E. Bucke, Ottawa; Prof. J. Hoys Panton, Guelph; A. Mc. D. Allan, Goderich ; Thomas Beall, Lind- say; B. Starratt, Paradise, N.S.; A. H. Pettit, Grimsby, Ont.; J. 8S. McMichael, Waterford, Ont.; Thomas Frankland, Stonewall, Manitoba; R. W. Starr, Starr’s Point, N.S.; G. W. Henry, Port Hammond, B.C.; R. Brodie, Montreal; R. W. . Shepherd, jr., Montreal; R. J. Brodie, Smith’s Falls, Ont.; W. W. Dunlop, Mon- treal; C. R. H. Starr, Wolfville, N.S.; J. Craig, Experimental Farm, Ottawa; S. L. Peters, Queenstown, N.B.; 8. D. Willard, Geneva, N.Y.; O. B. Hadwen, Worcester, Mass.; S. A. Bedford, Experimental Farm, Manitoba; N. J. Clinton, Windsor, Ont. ; Linus Woolverton, Grimsby, Ont.; P. C. Dempsey, Trenton, Ont.; G. A. Drum- mond, Roebuck, Ont.; John D. Thomson, Domville, Ont.; O. Crossfield, J. M. Fisk, Abbotsford, Que;; John M. Denton, London, Ont.; John Croil, Aultsville, Ont.; Rev. Thomas W. Fyles, South Quebec; Rev. R. Hamilton, Grenville, Que.; G. S. Mason, Hawkesbury, Ont.; G. CO. Caston, Craighurst, Ont.; A. M. Smith, St. Catharines, Ont.; Prof. R. W. Smith, Truro, N.S.; A. A. Graham, Granby, Que. ; Hon. H. G. Joly, Leclereville, Que. ; R. Mallory, Frankford, Ont.; G.M. Farley, Belle- ville, Ont.; D, Westover, Frelighsburg, Que.; W. L. Kerr, Beamsville, Ont.; J. W. Harrison, Regina, N.W.T.; W. Thompson, jr., Derwent, Ont., and others. The meeting was opened by the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture with the following address :— Ms. Presipent and GENTLEMEN,—It appears to me that I am a sort of double-barrelled gun to-day. JI was honoured by the President asking me to open this meeting, but I came here a little toosoon. While the Dairy Convention was going on I was called upon to speak, and [said something then about the fruit as well as the dairy interests of the country. However, Mr. President and gentlemen, I feel it a great honour in being called upon by you to open this Fruit Growers Con- vention, This is the first Dominion convention of fruit growers, I believe, that has been held in Canada, and I hope that it will not be the last; that as you have made a good commencement, as you have an excellent attendance here to-day with repre- sentatives present from all the different parts of the Dominion—from Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island. New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, and the North- West Territories, and with the united action of all the gentlemen that are represeut- ing the different Provinces, I am sure the convention cannot help but result in great good for the country. The fruit interests are just beginning to be appreciated by the people in other countries, as I have mentioned here this aflernoon, At the Centennial Exhibition, held in 1876 in Philadelphia, I am told Canadian fruit was awarded a number of medals; and, as I mentioned also, the exhibit of fruit sent to the Indian and Colonial Exhibition astonished the world. There were millions of people who attended that exhibition, and they were surprised at the exhibit of frutt from Canada, I only hope, gentlemen, that you will spare no effort to produce first- class fruits in the Dominion, We have many different climates in Canada and I trust that in a very short time varieties of apples as well as well as other fruits may be found ‘suitable to all of them. I am quite sure we will be successful with the small fruits, aud I think that apples may be grown in the North-West in the same way that they are grown in Russia some six or seven hundred miles further north than we are at Regina, We may not be successful at first, but we are making the effort, and all kinds of fruit trees are being experimented with at the Central Farm near Ottawa, and also at the farm in the Maritime Provinces, at Nappan, at Brandon, and at the farm at Indian Head, in the North-West Territories, and also at the farm in British Columbia. With this vast extent of country in which all varieties of climate are represented, we are testing trees in great variety from many other countries. Prof. Saunders is in communication with the principal fruit growing countries in the world, and we are experimenting with seeds from India, witb trees from Russia, from Germany and from Japan. Apple trees that have been successful in Northern Russia have been brought out and are succeeding in the Western States, and I think that by continuing this line of work we shall suceced in finding fruits which will stand the climate of our north-west, I think we have been successful in bringing out a wheat, called the Ladoga wheat, from Northern Russia. That wheat has been successful. (Applause.) It has been clearly demonstrated that it will ripen about ten days earlier than the Red Fife wheat. So far as we can learn it is equal in quality to the Red Fife but; supposing it should not be quite equal, the advantage of having it ripen ten days earlier is a matter of very great importance in the North- West. (Hear, hear.) With this acquisition, and if we can produce apples and such fruit as I have mentioned in the North-West, 1 think it will be worth the expen- diture that has been made in connection with our Experimental Farms. (Hear, hear, and applause.) These experiments are being honestly made by competent men, as I said before. We have been careful in selecting the very best men we could get in the country to take charge of the different branches, and they are conducting this work ; and we have at the head of these Experimental Farms a gentleman in whom all those who have come in contact with him have confidence, and I am sure the country has confidence in him. (Hear, hear.) With these experiments -honestly conducted and carried out they must be of vast benefit to all sections of the country, from ocean to ocean, (Applause.) Gentlemen, I do not know that I should take up your time any longer, and I thank you for the honour you have done me in asking me to open this meeting. The Dairy Convention has been successful, and there is every appearence, from the size of the Fruit Growers Convention, that your gathering will be equally successful, I have no more to say, beyond declaring that this convention is now open, and I wish you every success, (Loud applause.) THE CHAIRMAN’S ADDRESS. The Chairman, Prof. D. P, PentaLow, of Montreal, then delivered hig opening address, as follows :— To the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture and Members of the Convention : GuNTLEMEN,—Before proceeding to deal with these subjects which more inti- mately bear upon the special work of this important convention, which, as presiding officer, it falls to my lot to present to you, I venture to congratulate you all upon the successful issue of these efforts which have been directed towards bringing you together at this time and place, and under circumstances which render this the most important movement ever instituted in the Dominion of Canada for the purpose of promoting our very large and increasing fruit industry. 1 The present convention is the result of an effort on the part of the Montreal Horticultural Society to secure such a meeting at Montreal last winter. For various reasons the plans then made were not realized, but as we all felt the great necessity for some concerted action looking to the better development of our fruit industry, and especially of our export trade; efforts were renewed with the result now apparent. By a general vote of all the societies interested, the organization of the convention, with all the details relating to it, was placed in the hands of the Mon- treal Horticultural Society and Fruit Growers’ Association of the Province of Quebec, in consequence of which it devolves upon me, as President of that society, to preside over the work of this meeting. We are under obligations to many members of the House for the warm manner in which ou: application for Government assistance was supported by them. But we are more particularly and deeply indebted to the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture, Mr. John Carling, for the encouragement and sympathy he has extended to those directly in charge of this work, and for the very active and generous support he has extended in securing a special Government grant to meet expenses necessarily incident to such an occasion. And notwithstand- ing the many engrossing duties of his position, he has continued to manifest a watchful and active interest in all our work up to this very date. Whatever may be the final result of our work in the next three days, the fruit growers of Canada cannot forget that Mr. Carling has laboured earnestly and generously for the promo- tion of their interests, We should also acknowledge the valuable services of those members of the general executive and local committees without whose uniting efforts success could not have been secured. ' On behalf of our various societies, as bere represented, I desire also to extend a most cordial welcome to those representatives of kindred societies who have come to this meeting from the adjoining States of the Union. It is our hope that, as our interests are largely identical, the exchange of views to take place during the progress of this convention may result in a large measure of mutual benefit. This is the first occasion in the history of Canadian horticulture when there have been assembled at one point skilled representatives of that most noble calling, from all parts of our widely separated Provinces, We have here to-day representa- tives from Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, the North-West Territories and British Columbia, and itis hoped that such a convention of widely separated interests may lead to results of the greatest importance—results which will be felt in the remotest fruit-growing district of the Dominion, and from which, as time moves rapidly onward, new influences may spring. Our progressive neighbours to the southward, who are ever on the alert for new directions in which to apply an exhaustless energy to the development of natural resources, have for some years been carrying on a work similar to that we are now entering upon—though on a somewhat larger scale—through the medium of the American Horticultural Society, whose function it is to move about from place to place each year, and thus bring local interests into harmony with the general welfare. Whether any such broader field of work will result from this Convention and whether such work as we are now undertaking will be extended into the future, are at present open questions, the determination of which must depend upon the nature of the results we now achieve. At present our object is attained in this meeting. When it was first proposed to hold this meeting the intention was to have it at Montreal, as the great shipping port, and whence the bulk of our fruit goes to Europe. But on consideration it was found best, for several reasons, that it should be held here at Ottawa during the Session of Parliament, and thus give to the various representatives here gathered an opportunity to hear and join in the discussions, and ultimately distribute the information obtained, among their several consti- tuencies. Of the various Provinces represented here to-day, we regret to find that only four have regulary organized societies, under whose direction and encouragement the fruit interests of these various sections are fostered and promoted. In Manitoba and the North-West, where fruit, culture is yet in its infancy, or not yet undertaken, es reason for this is to some extent obvious. Not so, however, with Prince Edwar Island and New Brunswick, both of which are important fruit districts. It undoubt- edly falls within the province of this convention, and perhaps may be considered ar of our most important duties, to inquire into the causes of such a state of affairs an : if possible, suggest and encourage some improvement. British Columbia, althoug not as yet a large fruit-producing country, is yet fully alive to future pose and the necessity of giving the industry the most careful nursing while it is 1n the stage of extreme infancy. There has been established there, within the last two years, a society which has at its head one of the most active and highly respected members of the Montreal Horticultural Society, Mr. J. M. Browning. Under his guidance, we may confidently look forward to the future of the society, with the feeling that it is destined to accomplish a great and important work in developing the latent possibilites of fruit culture in the far west. oe oe If we now turn to the other extreme of this widely-extending Dominion, we find in Nova Scotia—the paradise of apples—a most active organization, known as the Nova Scotia Fruit Growers’ Association and International Show Society. The name at once suggests the broad basis on which the work of this society is conducted, and our inspection of its annual reports shows that it has accomplished a vast amount of good work. This society was established by Act of Legislature on the 10th of May, 1864, and the constitution was amended on 12th January, 1876. Its membership is not large, being only 31 in 1886, but all take a most active part in the proceedings, and feel that their personal interests and those of the society are one. : The association had its origin in the great London Exhibition of 1860, at which Nova Scotia apples were exhibited and attracted marked attention. In 1862 speci- mens of fruit were sent to the exhibition of the London Horticultural Society, where they took one silver and some bronze medals. As a result, the society was organ- ized in 1863 by men whose names are most intimately connected with the fruit interests of that Province, We find it recorded in the transactions of the society that: “It had been abund- antly proved from the very origin of the society that the best of apples could be raised in Nova Scotia; the difficulty all along had been in placing them in good con- dition in the British market. At first it had been found necessary even to preserve them, that they might appear at least of their proper size and form. Various exper- iments had been tried to overcome the formidable obstacles presented by the broad and stormy ocean and a land transit scarcely less destructive; but the problem was not yet satisfactorily solved. At the annual meeting of 1870 the matter was again brought to the notice of the association, a statement being made by Amos Black, Esq., one of its members, that he had in the preceding December sent two barrels of apples—Hutching’s and Black Red—to Liverpool, England, and that they had arrived in perfect order. Each apple was wrapped separately in paper. “In 1871 the association determined to petition the Dominion Parliament to place a specific duty on all foreign apples, green fruits and vegetables, as well as upon all fruit trees imported into the Province. In its work, since the date of its formation, the society has advised a wide and intelligent interest in the domain in- trusted to its care and management. The subjects which have occupied its attention have been very numerous and varied ; they have also been among the most impor- tant that can engage the consideration of an agricultural and horticultural region. Through its instrumentality information has been widely diffused; the fruits and other agricultural produce of the Province have been brought to the notice of even distant countries, and have created a most favourable impression as to the capabilities and resources of the colony; it has been made apparent, by the knowledge diffused, that the apples of Nova Scotia are unsurpassed, perhaps unrivalled, by those of any other part of the world; the oda of the Fruit Growers’ Association have done much towards opening up and securing a permanent market for our fruit, and thus to render its cultivation a source of prosperity and wealth. Experiments have been successfully made as to the kinds best adapted to our climate; the modes of trans- portation 10 distant countries have occupied the thoughts of the society, so that now our finest apples may be placed in the markets of Great Britain with their bloom and flavour almost wholly unimpaired. The ravages of insects and other pests, and the means by which they can be best counteracted, have been made the subject of careful research, and the labour has not been in vain. So the work has been pros- ecuted with interest, fidelity and success.” This society was also one of the most active promoters of the Dominion Fruit Exhibit at the Indian and Colonial Exhibi- tion in 1885. Turning our attention to interests nearer our own immediate locality, we find in the Ontario Fruit Growers’ Association a society of widely extended influence and importance, having in its keeping the fruit interests of one of the most highly favoured pomological districts in America. lts work has been of such a varied and important character that justice cannot be done to it in the brief space to be spared in an address of this kind, and only the more salient features can be passed in review. The membership is now nearly three thousand. The Provincial Government has for many years given an annual grant, which has steadily increased, from a minimum of $500 to a present maximum of $1,800. The association was established about 1860, and since that date has been active in promoting the fruit interests of the Province. Meetings are held at various seasons of the year and in different parts of the Province; annual reports, embodying the proceedings of these meetings, are pub- lished, together with most important contributions to economic entomology. In 1870 the society adopted the plan of distributing new varieties of fruits to various growers, for purposes of testing, a condition being that an annual report of the results obtained, should be submitted to the society for a period of five years. This plan is still in operation, and under it the sum of $500 has been annually expended. The society holds no regular exhibitions, but it offers such special prizes as seem to be demanded from time to time. In 1878 the Canadian Horticulturist was issued, under the patronage and by the aid of this association. It is the best exponent of Canadian horticulture extant, and is doing a most useful work. In 1870 the President, Rev. R. Burnet, suggested that geological conditions should be taken into consideration as influencing the success or failure oforchards. He also suggested that there should be special encouragement given to exportation, and that more intimate inter-communication should be established with other societies at home and abroad. In 1878 he again suggested that efforts should be made to extend fruit culture in Manitoba and the North-West. In 1883 President Saunders directed attention to the great desirability of secur- ing fruits of a hardy nature from similar climates in various parts of the old world. As you are all well aware, this suggestion was acted upon the following year by Mr. Charles Gibb, the results of whose labours in Russia and other parts of Hurope have been of the greatest value. The society has been directly responsible for extensive improvements in and the extension of fruit culture throughout Ontario, as well as in the promotion of forestry interests. It includes among its members, originators of valuable new varieties of fruits and vegetables, in which connection the names of Saunders, Arnold, Haskins, Mills and others are most favourably known. Throngh this society legislation favourable to the fruit industry of the entire country has been promoted, and it took the leading part in securing the fruit display at the Indian and Colonial Exhibition. The Montreal Horticultural Society was incorporated in 1849. In 1878 the society was re-organized, under an amended charter, as the Montreal Horticultural Society and Fruit Growers’ Association of the Province of Quebec. For many years no active work was undertaken, but in 1876 the first annual report was issued. These publications have beer contirued ~p to the present time, and constitute a complete record of the fruit culture ir the Province, embracing papers of the, great- est horticultural value. 10 At the time of reorganization the Secretary explained the reason for a change of name in the following terms :— ie “Strong efforts having been put forth within the last three or four years to quicken the interest in fruit-growing in this Province, it was thought that the name chosen for the new association should be explanatory of the work the society has in view. For this reason the name chosen was that of the Montreal Horticultural Society and Fruit Growers’ Association of the Province of Quebec. In purely horti- cultural matters the influence of the society will be mainly felt in and near this city, but in matters relating to fruit growing it is hoped that it will exert a useful and powerful influence throughont the whole Province.” ; : The hopes then entertained as to the future usefulness of this society have been realized in the work of subsequent years. Meetings have been held in various parts of the Province for the discussion of questions bearing upon fruit culture, and the present meeting may be properly regarded as a legitimate and natural result of the policy adopted. The Local Government has, for some years, given an annual grant of $1,000, by aid of which the society has, for many years, held annual exhibitions at Montreal, which, for extent of display and character of the special exhibits, have been unsur- passed by any similar exhibitions in Canada. The annual prize list amounts to about $1,400, of which about $700 are given for flowers, the balance for fruits and vegetables. ‘The present membership numbers about 600. Five local societies for the promotion of fruit culture, viz.: Abbotsford, Brome, Shefford, Missisquoi and L’Islet, are’operated under the patronage of this associa- tion, and practically constitute as many local divisions of it, Much valuable work has been accomplished in the introduction and testing of new varieties; the introduction of Russian fruits; the introduction of valuable ornamental and forest trees, and in the diffusion of generalinformation. The society also took an active part in the formation of the exhibit of fruits for the Indian and Colonial Exhibition. It thus appears that, aside from their purely local functions, these organizations have all accomplished a large amount of most useful work in the direction of promoting the general welfare of the country, and I have deemed it of importance, at this time, to call your attention to these facts, not only because they directly bear upon the objects of this convention, but also because they are most suggestive of work which can now be undertaken in the most thorough manner, and to the execution of which the highest authority will give its sanction, The work we are now called upon to perform is of an important character, and, although I cannot attempt to give an outline of all those subjects to be presented for your consideration, yet there are a few which, from their relation to the larger questions of export and import, I feel should be brought to your notice in a some- what conspicuous manner. Government statistics show that the value of exports and imports of fresh fruits from 1883 to 1888 inclusive, may be stated as follows :— Export, Import. IE: aire ence ene yey eee eRe ee Pete $499,185 $814,544 Pr ee igre en re 173,048 778,446 TSSS ssieres cies bound mares acenaee sasatstenooaeden ve 635,240 693,169 TCU sarlipaiceasa tama tacit lace. elas 499,598 681,740 LEST cccuie aesewiag wasearat dawtuset cheeses tee aca wae 871,188 797,581 TSSS: sianitotawensigns aban abenes dieiidun cadevece wen 857,995 780,269 From this it appears that the volume of imported fruits nearly equals the export, and in some years has been more than four times the amount. An allow- ance should be made, however, for those fruits which, like lemons and oranges, cannot be grown here, but which are consumed in large quantities. It is apparent, nevertheless, that while the Indian and Colonial Exhibition did much good in the i way of drawing greater attention to our fruits, and while, as a result, more frequent applications from England, for the shipment of apples, have been received, it has not resulted in that enlargement of our export trade which it was confidently hoped might follow, This result may to some extent be due to indifference of the pro- ducer to fluctuation of market prices both at home and abroad, and to other similar causes ; but there is good reason for entertaining the belief, as will be shown in papers to be presented for your consideration, that transportation constitutes the principal factor in determining this result. As has been amply demonstrated by the Nova Scotia fruit growers, apples can be placed on the London market in prime order, but if the shipper feels that there is no dependence to be placed upon the way in which his fruit is stored and handled, and that it is largely a matter of chance whether it arrives in good order or a mass of rotten pulp, he will prefer in most cases to take his chances with the home market, where his reputation, at all events, can be maintained. This is one of the most important questions to be brought before you, as upon it the future possibilities of our fruit trade wholly depend. The question, however, is one of many aspects and requires a thorough and unprejudiced consideration of all the facts bear- ing upon it. While on our part it is only proper to ask that the railroads shall handle the fruit with care and forward it with despatch, and of the steamboat com- panies that they provide proper storage and ventilation, the producer and the shipper must, on the other hand, be willing and ready to guarantee their part in the whole process, and see that the picking and packing are properly executed. Fruit poorly packed will suffer injury under the most favourable conditions of transport. The interests of the producers and of the transportation companies are one, in the en- couragement of an enlarging export, but each must do the part falling to them, and it has been felt that the importance of this subject deserved more than ordinary consideration. It is with a view to making some definite arrangement that repre- sentatives of the various railway and steamboat companies interested have been in- vited here to discuss this matter with you, for the same reason, also, the Dominion Dairymen’s Association will hold a joint meeting with us this evening. Another important aspect of this question is our relation to the Uuited States. Looking somewhat more closely into the exports and imports for the past two years I find that in 1888 apples to the value of $197,613 were exported to the United States and in 1889 this was increased to $284,252. The bulk of these were sent from Ontario and Nova Scotia. The imports of fruit during the same period were as follows :— 1888. 1889. cacao 66,548 40,695 Blackberries ) Gooseberries Dene. aaa 18,133 1,094 Strawberries J Cherries Cie. i Ssecetdut easel heat 5744 2,179 Cranberries Plums 4 Ie RPNRAieL tore aaa ies eseeomaE eee 36,790 36,581 Quinces Grapes, US. ancosecnateapenmmumimemmmeamrammeeees 30,452 29,532 do; -GUB) cacwexexcinemesamisaedaeereewabunizesans 22,355 22,351 52,807 51,883 An inspection of these figures in detail shows that it is not a question altogether of import to non-producing Provinces, since sume of the largest imports were to fruit-producing Provinces, and it is more probable, so far as apples are concerned at least, a question of transportation and local market values. It is, therefore, a 12 i = question if this convention should not consider some means by which any local necessity of fruit could be met by the surplusage of other Provinces, rather than from a toreign country. ieee In the list of imported fresh fruits there are doubtless some—excluding, of course, oranges, lemons and other sub-tropical fruits—which cannot be raised in sufficient quantity to meet the demands; but this is not true of the majority. On- tario can raise as good small fruits as New York, and so should British Columbia, and with a good soil and highly favoured localities for fruit culture I consider that our present import of $132,000 should not only be offset by an increasing pro- duction, but be turned to an export. With the enormous population there is to the south of us, with our relatively very small population, and with our ability to pro- duce fruit, there should be no question of import at all. I would, therefore, com- mend to your earnest consideration the adoption of means looking to this end. Among other questions to be presented to your consideration will be those relating to disease and the ravages of insect enemies; the decline of orchard culture in districts where formerly it was a profitable pursuit; and the extension of orchards into those parts of the country where they are demanded by the rapid growth of population. Fortunately for the progress of the fruit industry in Canada, the Department of Agriculture, through its experimental farms, is pushing forward a most valuable work in this direction, and we may confidently look for results in the future which will be of the most important character. ; Having thus brought before you some of the most prominent of the questions to be discussed here, I will not further detain you from the important work of this session, but will declare the Convention open, and ask you to give to its proceedings that close and undivided attention that its importance demands. HorvricurntuRAL WoRK OF THE EXPERIMENTAL Farms. Prof. W. SaunpErs addressed the convention on “Horticultural Work at the Central Experimental Farm.” He said: Mr. Chairman and gentlemen,—I am very much pleased indeed to have an opportunity of appearing before this important con- vention of fruit growers to say a few words in connection with the work of the Experimental Farm as far as that work bears upon the important subject of horti- culture. 1 realize the value and importance of such associations as these when I recall what good work the Fruit Growers’ Associations have done in this country in the way of advancing the fruit interests. Although not a very old man, my memory carries me back to the time when, shortly after the Fruit Growers’ Association of Ontario was organized, and before it received any Government aid, I remember what a struggle we had from year to year when we had no resources but the fees of the few members who paid their dollar or two dollars a year. How difficult it was to make ends meet and to keep up interest in the association at that time and to carry on the useful work which was contemplated. It may not be generally known to the members, but I think it is a matter which is worthy of mention on this occa- sion that it was the Hon. Mr. Carling, who now stands at the head of the Agricultural Department of this country, who incorporated the Fruit Growers’ Association of Ontario and got for it the first grant of money which it received —$500. (Applause.) I remember receiving a letter from him then—I was president of the Entomological Society at that time—in which he suggested that our society should organize under the Agriculture and Arts Act of Ontario, promising a grant of $400. At that time the Act was being introduced by the honourable gentleman. It was giving these grants to the Entomological and Horticultural Societies which started them in their career of usefulness, and that work has gone on ever since, to the great advantage of the whole community, not only in Ontario, but in the Dominion of Canada. The reports which they have printed and circulated from time to time have found their way over the whole country, and they have had a great effect in advancing the interests of fruit culture and improving the character of the fruit grown, and placing us ina position, as fruit growers, of commanding the respect and confidence of the markets of the worid 18 for our products, Now, with similar objects in view, namely, that of benefiting the whole community, the Experimental Farms have been organized and one of the objects contemplated in this organization is to advance horticulture ; and 1 propose, during the few moments which IJ shall occupy your time to endeavour to give you a-brief sketch of what we are doing in this respect as well as what we hope to be able to doin the future. Atthe Experimental Farm at Ottawa, which is the Central Farm, a large portion of the preparatory work is done, which has its bearing on the whole Dominion, for that 1s the distributing centre from which plants, trees and shrubs are sent to the other four farms, as well as to other points for test. One of these farms is in Nova Scotia, the second in Manitoba, the thirdin the North-West Territories, and the fourth is in British Columbia. Now, at the outset here it is very important that a good foundation be laid, and that foundation in the larger fruits consists, in the first place, of the ordinary standand varieties of apples, such as are grown with such advantage and profit in the western parts of Ontario. Those of you who are conversant with the climate of Ottawa know that we have here a very fair propor- tion of cold weather during the winter months. During the present winter two or three hundred miles west they have scarcely had any snow; but we have had continuous sleighing since November, and we expect it to continue until spring. This is the usual character of our winters. Such continuous cold weather, and especially when very low temperatures prevail, has its effect on fruit trees, and the result is, many of the more tender varieties will not endure the vicissitudes they are exposed to in this climate. Yet it may be said that the climate of Ottawa is fairly representative of the larger portions of Ontario and Quebec; for, taking the more favourable fruit areas out of Ontario, there is a very large proportion of this Province north and east where the conditions of temperature which obtain in Ottawa prevail to a like degree and stand in the way of very successful fruit culture. In the test orchard of standard varieties at the Experimental Farm many sorts will be tried which we do not expect to succeed with. This will be done so that we may be able to give the information to those who apply for it as to whether certain varieties are likely to succeed or not. Judging from the growth of the trees in the three years we have had the work carried on, there is a promise of success with a large number of varieties which it was thought likely, when the Farm was started, would not grow in the Ottawa valley. I think a very important part of our work will be to dissem- inate knowledge throughout the country as to what varieties will not succeed, as well as in regard to those which are successful, and thus save the people from spending their money in a useless manner. Beside the orchard of standard trees, we have a larger orchard in which there are 170 to 180 varieties of Russian and north- ern European trees. These are all being carefully watched, and although they have only been two years in the ground there were two trees last year which fruited and bore some nice apples. We expect during the next year that some others may be found to bear a sufficient quantity to permit of testing the quality of these fruits All such information will be reported on from time to time, giving full information as to the most promising sorts. In every case the plain truth will be given in regard to everything tested, as faras the judgment of the officers in charge will permit, and [ think that the reports we shall give from time to time as the Russian fruits progress in these orchards will be very important. There is one thing that I wish to say here as a word of caution. It is this: it is too often the case with fruit growers in the more temperate portions of the Province, in their desire to get everything that is new, to encumber their orchards with varieties which they would be better without, and I would say that there are very few of these Russian varieties of apples which it is desirable to grow in those districts where the best standard sorts can be produced, but some of them are likely to serve a most useful purpose in those districts of the country where the better and higher flavoured fruits, for which Ontario is now so noted, cannot be successfully grown. If we can place eventually such information at the disposal of every settler in the more distant settlements, which will enable him to grow fruit, even though it is not of the very highest quality, it will be much appreciated; it will add to his 14 comfort and to the health of his family, and give him some of the enjoyments which we are so favoured with in the older districts in which we live. Besides the tests which have been referred to of apples, similar work is being done with pears, plums and cherries. With regard to cherries, I think they are the most promisi ng, next to apples, of all the hardy fruits with which we have to do. They grow very vigorously, and judging from the few samples of fruit we have had on the trees I think they are likely to be very acceptable indeed, and especially in those districts where fruit is scarce, ‘The orchards occupy a considerable area. The standard varieties of apples are planted thirty feet apart, and all the other trees twenty feet. There are at least twelve or thirteen hundred in all, consisting of about three hundred and fifty varieties. Careful notes will be taken of these as they fruit, and information that is needed or thought of sufficient importance will be given to the public from time to time in the form of bulletins, which every one who desires can have on application. In small fruits also very much is being done. We have one hundred and fifty varieties of grapes of the named sorts, besides a great many new seedings which have been originated on the farm. In currants, gooseberries, raspberries and strawberries the varieties will count probably two or three hundred more, that is, the named varieties. These are being carefully tested and compared from year te year, and as the results are noted and opinions formed the information is given to the public. In addition to this, we are endeavouring to originate Canadian varieties (seedlings produced) on the Experimental Farms. We had fruit in Ottawa last year ; we fruited quite a number of seedling strawberries and raspberries, some of which are very promising. Samples of some of the best of these will be found in the exhibit when the fruit is arranged. I think I may safely say that we have among the new seedling raspberries some red varieties of remarkably good quality, which will do credit to the Experimental Farms. Several hundred of these new varieties have already been produced, and each year will see large additions to their number. After their merits have been fully investigated the best of them will be sent first to the Experimental Farms, and after that to other points, to be tested by practical fruit growers, as soon as the material for that purpose is available, and I think in this way we shall be able to produce in the course of time, not only varieties that will do us credit, but varieties that will be particularly well adapted for the colder districts, for the reason that they have originated here, and are acclimatized to their sur- roundings. The continuance of such work will make Experimental Farms exceedingly in- teresting places for fruit growers to visit, and the interest will be increased from year to year. The Central Experimental Farm is intended to serve the purposes especially of Ontario and Quebec; the Maritime Province Farm, situated at Nappan, near the point of junction between the Province of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and very near the centre of Prince Edward Island opposite, will serve for these three provinces. Nova Scotia fruit has acquired a good reputation in the markets of the world, and it has gained that name from the superior quality of the productions of the famed Annapolis Valley. That is a valley which extends for about 100 miles, and varies in width from two to six miles. The idea is prevalent in Nova Scotia that if you want apples you must go to the Annapolis Valley; but recent experience has shown that this is not the only district in Nova Scotia where good fruit can be grown. In New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island there are promising orchards, and there are good grounds for the opinion that many useful and good varieties of fruit may be grown in these Provinces in sufficient quantities to supply the home demand and leave a surplus for foreign shipment. The idea that good fruit can only be grown in the Annapolis Valley is being gradually eradicated. Very good fruit is grown there, no doubt; but there are other localities in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island where fruit can also be grown to good advantage, and this extension in the area over which fruit is grown will lead to a larger and more general consumption of fruits of every sort throughout those Provinces. When the site tor the Experimental Farm was chosen at Nappan I was told there would be no use in trying to grow fruit there; but from the way the trees are thriving | am 15 satisfied we shall be able to show that that district is capable of growing good fruit. Passing westward, there is an Experimental Farm in Manitoba, at Brandon; and another at Indian Head, in the North-West Territories. As most of you know, there are serious climatic difficulties to contend with in the North-West in undertaking to grow fruit trees. The temperature is very low during the winter, sometimes remain- ing below zero for a month or more at atime. In looking over the records of tem perature received from three Experimental Farms, I find that for as much as a fort- night at a time the thermometer has remained as low as 25° to 35° below zero. It requires very hardy fruit trees to stand such sustained cold. An occasional dip, fol- lowed by warm weather, does not seem to have the same effect on the vitality of the trees, as do these continuous low temperatures, especially when they are accom- panied by strong drying winds. Small fruits can be grown without much diffi- culty in the North-West, for the reason that there is usually enough snow to protect them and they do not suffer to the same extent from the low temper- ature and drying winds as do the trees Up to the time the Experimental Farm work began, I have not heard of any trees being taken to that country which were hardy enough to endure the climate. Some three years ago I visited Sir Donald Smith’s place at Silver Heights, near Winnipeg, and examined the trees which were planted there. There were apple trees of the Duchess variety, which had been planted for some years, but every year they had been killed down to the snow line. When I saw these trees again last year J found very little change in them; they were about the same height as they were two years before; so that the prospect of growing the Duchess apple there is not very encouraging. I think that in the Red River Valley there always will be a very considerable difficulty in the way of growing fruit trees, for the reason that the soil is so rich and strong and deep that a late growth is sometimes induced in the autumn, and this soft new wood will not endure growth when succeeded by severe cold. I think this will not be found to be the case so often in those parts where the soil is lighter further west. On the bluffs and along the river valleys there are thousands of acres which, I hope, it may be practicable, before many years, to plant with fruit trees. We have had two summers’ and one winter’s experience at Indian Head and a summer's experience at Brandon, with about fifty or sixty varieties of Russian trees planted there of the hardier sorts of apples, and a considerable proportion of them have passed through the very trying seasons referred to and promise fairly well. Our experience so far has, on the whole, been encouraging. The statement just made by the Honourable Minister of Agriculture, that we may be able to find an apple, as well as other varieties of fruit, that will endure in the North-West Territories, is quite. likely to be verified; indeed, I think, there is good reason to believe we shall find, not only one, but a good many varieties that will succeed there. It is scarcely to be expected that the North-West will ever do much in the way of exporting fruit, but . we may expect that as the taste for fruit becomes more general the demand will be greatly increased. The people will want these hardier sorts for cooking, and will still desire to buy the high flavoured sorts grown in the east for the tables. If they cannot grow these hardy varieties at home, many persons will be compelled to go without fruit altogether, and that is a very great deprivation. The success of small fruits on the western farms has been more encouraging. I think there is no doubt that at Indian Head, during the coming season, we shall have quite a crop of small fruits. Gooseberries, currants, raspberries and strawberries have made fair growth, although, on account of the dry weather, they have not reached that development whichisusuallyscen. I must alsosay afew words about British Columbia, for there we have a territory which, I think, will soon produce sufficient fruit for home consumption and a large surplus for export to the mining districts and small towns in the mountains, and to those parts of the Territories where fruit may not be so easily grown; also, to China, Japan and other Asiatic countries. I have never seen, anywhere, such crops of apples, pears, plums and cherries as those of British Columbia. At first I was a little doubtful in regard to the quality of these fruits, but when I visited the fairs last year at New Westminster and Ashcroft, and had opportunities of tasting the 16 fruit and of comparing it as well as I could from recollection with Ontario samples, they impressed me as being very good, and if they were at all inferior in quality to similar varieties grown in the east the difference was not sufficiently marked to enable me tc detect it. I took such varieties as the Spitzenberg, Ribston Pippin, Fameuse and Gravenstein, and several other highly flavoured sorts for test, and In point of size they much surpass those grown in the east. The climate is of that character which induces slow and regular growth all through the season, and the growth is continuous during a long period. As a rule, the high flavoured varieties of fruit are produced of better quality as we get further north, and with the proportion of cold they get in British Columbia they are able to grow fruits of higher flavour than can be produced in the more southern districts of California. We sometimes produce large crops, but I have never seen anywhere else trees so heavily loaded with fruit as I have there. They are also free from most of the insect pests and the pear blight. They have the twig blight on the apples, but this is not a very serious trouble. I think that with a climate that will produce such crops of the fruits named, and grow, also, peaches, apricots, walnuts and many other products to advantage, which may be shipped to different parts of Canada as well as to Asiatic ports, Bri- tish Columbia must soon become a fruit exporting Province. The climate is not warm enough in any part I have visited to grow good grapes; it is probable that in many localities the earlier ripening sorts may mature, but there is not enough heat during the summer to ripen the higher flavoured varieties of grapes. There will, no doubt, be a great opening there for the canning industry and the drying of fruits. Should the supply at any time exceed the demand, the surplus can easily be disposed of by the use of fruit evaporators, as the dried fruit will bear shipment to any part of the-world. The object in view at all the Experimental Farms is to encourage the people to grow the very best quality of grain, and fruits and do the very best for themselves, so that they may have products of high quality to sell, which will com- mand good prices. At the. present time, while they grow plenty of pears in British Columbia, there are not very many of them that are of very good quality. People usually want, at first, something showy and big, and in almost every garden you will find such varieties as the ‘‘ Belle Angevine,” specimens of which will some- times weigh as much as two pounds. By boiling a long time they may be made ser- viceable as a cooking pear, but as a table fruit it is a worthless sort. Better varieties are now being rapidly introduced, and the people there will, no doubt, soon be supplied with the very best sorts obtainable. An active fruit growers’ association has been recently organized there, and a _repre- ‘sentative of that association, Mr. Henry, is with us to-day. I visited Mr. Henry’s place last September, and was astonished at what I saw. He had Cuthbert rasp- berries which had made nine feet of growth in a season, and he told me that they had been gathering fruit all season off those bushes, and there was fruit still on them. I saw grape vines that had made fifteen and twenty feet of growth, while trees in. nursery rows showed an annual growth of four to six feet. From this it may be inferred that orchards could be got into bearing in very much less time than can be done in the east, and that the progress of fruit-growing may reasonably be expected to be very rapid. A large orchard has been started at the Experimental Farm in British Columbia, where it is proposed to test all varieties of fruit which give pro- mise of success, so that we may be prepared to give information with respect to the growing of fruit and other products, so thas we may help the settlers to make the most of their products, and cultivate their land with the greatest advantage and profit to themselves and to the country. 1 have now given you a very brief outline of some of the features of the work being undertaken at the Experimental Farms bearing on the advancement of horticulture. The convention then adjourned until 8 o'clock. 17 EVENING SESSION, A joint meeting of the Dominion Dairy Association and the Dominion Fruit Growers’ Association was held at the City Hall, Oltawa, on the evening of Wednesday, 19th February, Prof. Penhallow occupying the chair, The Council Chamber was well filled with members of the associations and visitors, Tue Cuairman.—The meeting which we hold this evening is to be regarded as a joint convention of fruit growers and dairymen. We have amalgamated this evening to discuss those questions of common interest to us, and those questions relate to export especially, so far as concerns the handling of fruit and dairy pro- ducts and shipment in cold storage in steamships, As this matter concerns the transportation companies quite as much as it does ourselves, we have made special arrangements for the representation here of the various companies concerned. I have pleasure in stating that the Allan Line is represented by Mr. Watt, the Beaver Line by Mr. Shaw, the various London lines by Mr. Gedd, and the Dominion Line is to be represented by Mr. Torrance. The Canadian Pacific Railway is represented by their local representative in Ottawa, and the Grand Trunk Railway has also a representative here, but unfortunately I have not the name of this gentleman at present. The Canadian Express Company is also represented by a letter which I have from the President, stating such features of the transportation as concern his coripany, and which will be read in proper course. The proceedings I think we will open by the presentation of two papers which have been prepared specially for this subject, and on the basis of these papers we hope that the representatives of the various companies and those particularly interested in the question of exportation will enter upon a free discussion. I would therefore call upon Mr, A. McD. Allan, of Goderich, to read his paper about the transportation of fruits. Mr, A. McD, Atuan.—Mr, President and gentlemen: I have no paper on the transportation of fruit. There was some misapprehension regarding this subject, if it was understood that I would read a paper or lead off with a discussion of this subject. Idid not understand it in that way until this morning. Under the cir- cumstances, I am taken at a disadvantage. However, I am willing to do what I can towards introducing the subject in as fair and square a way as I possibly can, and I have no doubt there are parties here quite competent to correct me in any mus- statements I may possibly make. I look upon the question as one of the most important questions affecting the fruit interests of this country, and looking at it in that way I am willing to allow the agents or representatives of the transportation companies who may be present to take the usual method adopted by some of them of avoiding this question, and I will begin by admitting the points that they usually advance in order to avoid the main points at issue—that is, lam willing that we shall take a certain proportion of the blame on ourselves, Indeed, I am willing possibly to go further than a good many will admit. I know I find parties not willing to go as far as J am willing to go in this respect. I believe that there are points connected with this subject that we ourselves as growers and as packers and as shippers can remedy to a very large extent, so that 1 am unwilling to place the entire blame upon the transportation companies by any means. There is blame enough resting there, as we shall see probably before this discussion has ended, and there are a good many points, if they are willing, they can remedy. In the first place, the blame rests away back with the fruit grower himself. The first point of blame is that the fruit grower does not grade the fruit properly to begin with. We have already discussed those subjects. We have discussed them in every hall and on every corner in every town and village in this country. We have tried our best to drum the different points into the fruit growers and farmers of this country. We have not only then to make a specialty of fruit culture, but we must grow fruits as they should be grown for the markets, and it is only in this way that shippers can get fruit of such a kind and quality as can be packed for the European and other markets. So, I say, in the first place the growers themselves are to blame for not growing the fruit properly, and the point I make there is simply this: with that 2 18 fruit that is not supplied with the necessary elements to produce fruit of proper quality that fruit will not carry as well as it would otherwise. Then the ee oe aa I consider that probably one of the greatest secrets of the whole apple trade, ee apples are the chief commercial fruit of this country. Probably the greatest sect et in the whole trade is the simple secret of knowing when to pick the apples. There is a point the people have not considered sufficiently. There is a right time to pick the apples and there is a wrong time. If you leave that fruit upon the trees until you consider it is ripe then the ripening process isa decaying process, and it has gone so far that that fruit will not carry to a distant market—no, or it even will not carry toa very near market. It has lost a large proportion of its proper keep- ing quality. Now, that is a point that is well worth studying. I have found this frequently after picking up good windfalls that of course have fallen about the time an apple begins to get its colour, about the time the apple has reached its maturity, so far as growth is concerned. Taking these windfalls and packing them away care- fully in the same cellar with picked apples, I find that the culls or windfalls will keep longer than the others. Why? Because the windfalls are picked by nature in the windstorm in proper time, and the others lefttoo long on the tree. What we want is to have our fruit keep for the longest possible time and reach the furthest mar- ket. Then the packers are to blame. There is a certain amount of blame there for looseness in packing. The packer should be a scientific man; he should understand each individual variety he is packing, because a variety slightly spongy will re- quire a little more to tighten the barrel properly than a variety that is crisp. There is a certain amount of give to it, and it will require a little more to fill that barrel and have it tight. On the other hand, a great many packers put too much ina barrel. There is no necessity for that at all. Thatis not good packing. Then, pass- ing from that, I would give certain points I would fix in the matter, perhaps nct strictly according to the text given me. However, they are points that come in in introducing the subject, and should receive a great deal of care. We have heard a great deal about the packages in which cheese and butter are sold; we saw a speci- men on the table to-day of a package of cheap butter—good butter made cheap on account of the package. We want the same thing in fruit; we want a good package, a neat package and a clean package, because when we go to the distant market the buyer is going to judge what is inside by the package. [fhe sees a good package that has caused some trouble and expense to manufacture, a neat package and aclean package, he naturally concludes that the owner of that could not afford to put up a mean, contemptible article inside. He has something worth while there, and he is very willing to buy on the chances; whereas, in the other case they would not buy; if they did so it would be at low prices. It is necessary in shipping that we should have cars perfectly clean. There is a point wherein we have found very great diffi- culty. As well as having cars clean, those cars should be supplied to us with dis- patch. When we have fruit to ship we want the cars there, and in some sections where we have not competition we find a great deal of trouble in getting clean cars. I have seen shippers ship in cattle cars, in open cars used for shipping cattle, and they were bound to get the fruit off in some way, to save it from perishing. These are points that are necessary to be looked after, and these are points we want the railway companies to look after. We want the railway companies to look after these points in proper season, and they should know the fruit districts and the quantity which willrequire shipment. They can easy know in proper time about the ship- ping quantity from the different sections, judging from what, they can tell the amount of car room that will be required during the season. They can get these particulars for the summer, fall, and winter fruits, and know pretty near the approximate amount to be furnished, and they can judge the ears they want to supply. Itis absolutely necessary to look to the supply, and have enough of the cars on hand to carry that fruit away. Then we have found fault frequently with the railway companies and other carrying companies for delay. A great deal of the delays on the railway company’s hands is owing to the company’s employees shunt- ing the cars off here and there, where there is a car or two to be got here and more at 19 anotherstation, There isa great deal of delay in that respect. Probably these cars are lying at the station goodness knows how long—sometimes days—and the cars will not reach the seaboard in time for shipment on the vessel. There is a great deal of unnecessary delay, J think, in a great many if not the majority of cases. Of course, the railway companies claim that they cannot, unless that they have a train-load, atford to run directly to the seaboard, Perhaps that is true. I was proposing that they should run fruit trains on certain days of the week from certain fruit points, for the purpose of reaching the seaboard in proper times for transhipment on certain vessels. The difficulty can be overcome in that way, and in discussing it amongst themselves these suggestions can be urged. There might be a remedy to some extent there at allevents. IJ think the railway company, when they look into that matter properly, will be able to provide a remedy to some extent. If they cannot remedy the wrong totally, if the growers and shippers meet them half way or part of the way, we will be doing something. We want them to try and do something. That damage in shunting is a damage we have discussed before. I have mentioned it several times, and that damage continues, and it isa very much more serious damage than the rail- way companies are willing toadmit. Thereis a damage there, and a serious damage, even if the barrels are not battered together or if they are not smashed open, They are, however, frequently broken open. That isa very common thing, and I have no doubt the agents here present will have noticed this at the point of transfer. They will have noticed that on opening the cars and transferring the goods to the vessel that there is scarcely a car without some barrel smashed open. That is done by shunting. Thereis damage to the fruit in the barrels, owing to rough shunting. We know how roughly they jostle us about sometimes on the passenger cars, We have suggested the remedy adopted in England of using buffers between the cars, and it seems to remedy the difficulty there most thoroughly, and the railway companies have complained of the expense of this remedy. I don’t know, but I should fancy it would save them considerable in their own rolling stock, in the damage to their own rolling stock, by the adoption of some scheme in that line, let alone the damage to the goods in transhipment. ; Then there is often delay and very often damage in the transfer from the rail- way company to the stedmships. That is a point that has been discussed often, and is a point that some have paid a good deal of attention to. I could mention some steamship companies that have paid a good deal of attention to this matter and have done considerable towards remedying this defect. Still there appears to be a good deal of damage there, which I think, with proper care, might be remedied to a considerable extent. Then a leading point would be this: The accommodation of the steamship companies. I believe there is a point that a great deal can be done with respect to. The fact of the matter is, that the fruit culture of this country is practically at a standstill, Why? Simply because we are not able to take the crop and land it in the markets of Great Britain by means of steamships in anything like the condition that it is when picked or even when it reaches the seaboard. There is great damage on the ship, there is no doubt about that. There is a damage by heating. Now, it is necessary to stick as close to nature as possible, and in order to get a little closer to nature than we used to be, some of us are going to try a new form of barrel, called the ventilated barrel. Some of us who have looked into the matter have great hopes of this barrel. We want proper ventilation for our fruit. We want fresh. air in the compartments of the vessel. That has got to be provided, and this fan system, as I have examined it in some of the vessels at Montreal, seems to me to be a step in the right direction, and will remedy the defect to a great extent, if not entirely. Probably if that system be carried out to perfection it will meet the point perfectly. Itis an atmospheric blast that we want. We do not want ice storage. We had a test of that at the time of the Indian and Colonial Exhibition. It carried the fruit well across the ocean, but being an unnatural atmosphere, when the fruit leaves the vessel it perishes more quickly than if it had been all the while in a natural atmosphere, That can be seen by keeping fruit in an ice-house. You will find that when you take it out it will decay much more quickly than it does 23 20 when kept in a more natural atmosphere. We want the steamship companies to provide clean accommodation. There must be nothing there that will give an odour to the fruit, and there is nothing that will take an odour quicker than fruit. The moment the fruit takes the least odour, that moment it begins to decay. It will not keep under such circumstances at all. If there be any disagreeable smell on board aship the fruit will be very apt to take it up, and anyone with a sharp taste, will quickly notice it it in high favoured varieties. I refer, particularly, to vessels carry- ing cattle. In vessels of that description they have to be very particular indeed—in fact, I almost question whether they will be able to separate the cattle and the fruit departments so as to keep the fruit free from contamination. It is possible that they can, and I hope they can. This matter of vessel accommodation is one that we should press very strongly, and I believe that if our steamships plying between Montreal and British ports would pay more attention to this—and we have brought it before them several times—it would be an easy matter for us, as members of the Fruit Growers’ Associations, to go to the people and advise them to go into fruit culture on a much larger scale than now. Moreover, we would be able not only to ship our winter fruit in much better condition than heretofore, but we would be able to ship our fall fruit and summer fruit. We ought to be able to ship those varieties. I tell you, there is more money in summer and fall apples in Great Britain than in the best winter apples, if we can land those apples there in anything like fair order. The people of Great Britain want fruit at that particular season, and they are willing to pay for it at that time. We have fine var- ieties of summer and fall fruit that we can ship now—varieties that would take the eye of the Britisher at once. But we must have the accommodation in order to do that. I believe we can get that in the way I have mentioned, and also by means of ventilated cars, They have cars enough of that description, and they would supply us with these if the steamships plyirg across the Atlantic would give us thorough accomodation in carrying the fruit. This is a matter lying with the steamship com- panies. If they want to extend the fruit trade of this Dominion, that is one of the most important points to take into consideration for the accomplishment of that end. If they do that it will enable us to go to the fruit growers all over the Domin- ion and advocate an increase of cultivation. There is no trouble in getting that if we have these arrangements satisfactorily made with respect to ventilation. I might say that the line I examined was the Beaver Line, at Montreal. I went over one of their vessels and examined their system of ventilation, as well as their system of cold air by the fansystem. I must say right here that I believe in giving honour to whom honour is due, and when we are dealing with these public corporations I do not want to put one against the other, but I wish to give honour where it is due. In my experience, the Beaver Line has done more for fruit growers than any line ply- ing across the Atlantic, simply because they have put that accommodation on their vessels. Since they have done that I have not heard a single complaint nor a bill of damages presented for a single cargo carried yet. We cannot say that of the other lines. Against the Allan Line and others, too, bills upon bills for damages have been presented. Cargoes that have been watched to their vessels and watched while being taken on were found on arrival to be damaged, and badly damaged. Mr. Torrance.—I would like you to establish that. Mr, ALLAN.—You can have the floor when I am through. Since the cold blast was put in the Beaver Line steamers we have not received notice of one single claim for damages. . If the representative of that line is here he can say if they have received any such notice; but we have not. We have heard of innumerable cases with the other lines. Then there is another difficulty when we come to the bills of lading. The difficulties with respect to the bills of lading have no end to them. The bills of lading of the present time were evidently invented about Adam's time or thereabouts. Ido not know of a more one-sided contract than the bill of lading than we are compelled to use. Itis not a fair contract. The carrying company is not willing to undertake anything, and when there is a bill of damages they always meet you with this bill of lading. They are protected at once, while the poor 21 shipper or fruit grower, whoever he may be, who is prosecuting this business, has no remedy. I instanced in my last annual address to the Fruit Growers’ Association of Ontario an actual case that occurred with the Allan Line. I took that one case as a substantial case. Two hundred barrels of apples were bought by a firm in Covent Garden, London. In the first place, they were about a month in transit, and the damage upon those 200 barrels was something like £106. I know what condition they were in, 1 saw them and examined them for the party who was selling, and also examined them on behalf of the parties who were buying them. I say that those apples were in the proper condition to be shipped: I saw as to the packing, and I know they should have landed in perfect order; but the result was the report we got back. I published that, and it will appear in my annual address with the names of the parties concerned, The report was that there was a large quantity of cattle manure immediately above—I presume, on the deck above—the apples. The report said over the apples, and I take that to mean on the deck above. A complaint was made to the steamship line, but they could not see where they were liable. The apples were all safe. When they were taken out, however, they were at a boiling heat. They were in cider, and hot cider at that. Still, there was nothing wrong there. No negligence—everything was done all right. In that case, however, I blamed the Grand Trunk more than I blamed the Allan Line. The Allan Jine were to blame for allowing the apples to go upon the steamer in such a state, as they were evidently not in a condition to be shipped. The bill of lading should give us the guaranteed count. I see no reason on earth why it should not; yet we are refused that all the time. IfI ship ten barrels to a friend in any town in England I get a bill of lading for ten barrels. If there is any reason why I should not get a bili for 10,000 barrels if I ship them, they should give us a guaranteed count. We find a loss there, because we do not get that count, We invariably find a shortage. I do not wish to suggest where that shortage comes in; but we say this much, that we do, through an arrangement with the agents once in a while get the count. We have succeeded in getting the count, and never knew a shortage under the circumstances. I presume there was no shortage. In fact, the report we got from the vessel was, that there was no short- age. I have not known a case yet where they had a count where they did not get the proper number of barrels of apples; yet, on the other hand, where there is no count but the shipper’s count marked on the bill of lading there is a shortage almost every time. It scarcely ever happens that we find the correct thing. They naturally say our account is astray then. I see no reason on earth why the railway or steam- ship companies should not give us acount. It is very little trouble, and it would encourage us to go on in the shipment of fruit, and encourage us to go on in the growth of fruits. We have, on the whole, lost in this very matter. It is quite a heavy loss. Another point that works against us is this: I believe the railway companies and the steamship companies here have considerable difficulty in getting the rail- way companies in Britain to give the rates corresponding with the through rates that we get here. In other words, as “I understand it, the railway companies in Britain charge local rates, and we can get no advantage, therefore, in going to the inland market anywhere. Frequently where we want to ship to Manchester or Birmingham or a market of that description, where it has to go from the sea- board by rail, the companies here almost always, so far as I know, repeat to us that the rate will be so-and-so, and it is local freight from the water delivered to the oint where we want to ship. That is one point, but how best to call for a remedy there I don’t know. I believe our companies here could do a good deal towards remedying that by working with the companies there. Probably they could do a great deal more than we could, because we cannot get hold of them on the other side of the Atlantic. That is one point. Then the bills of lading seem to be all on the side of the company. I have one here—one used by the Grand Trunk, They are not liable for delays in the carriage of perishable goods; neither are they liable for shortage. Take, for instance, a case: If you ship a car-load of apples and they are shunted off at a station, a hundred and fifty miles away, it is a simple matter to open these cars. They are simply sealed with a little lead button and 7 is an easy thing for anyone to help himself to a barrel or two barrels of apples, an: there will be a shortage then. It is found repeatedly that this is actually bee We have counted carefully at the shipping point and found a shortage at Montrea : What other way can we account for it? The parties say they are perfectly cer Vaid of their count, that itis correct, and it comes back that there isa shortage at Monti eal, The goods must have been taken out in the meantime, somewhere during the shunting. I cannot see that it is fair that they should ‘not be liable for the delays to some extent. It would not be fair that a railway company should be liable for delays in every case, because there are some delays that cannot be avoided, but there are some delayssurely that they should be liable for—unnecessary delays. There are unnecessary delays; we know that. Another drawback is heat. A steamship company is not liable for heating the apples. If they packed them right around the boiler, they would be in fine condition when they got to the other side, yet, I presume they would tell us they are not liable for anything. They are not liable for shortage. We have heard a good deal of stealing going on up the Thames, and a great many complaints have come to us. We find that shortages are increasing in the Atlantic trade. We have wondered how that could occur. I do not know, but I do know that shortages have occurred and damages have occurred. Well now, I think I will leave it at that, in the meantime, except this point, that I think probably it is possible to lower the rates, I would like the representatives of the’ companies present to consider that matter. Are the present through rates on apples as low as the rates upon other corresponding goods—for instance, on flour? I understand the rates are very much lower on flour. I under- stood that, but Ido not know how itis, and I would like some of the gentlemen present to answer that question. Are the rates not lower upon flour than upon apples? If this is so, I think that is wrong, because I think apples are a much closer freight to handle than flour. I should say apples should be much lower. The gentlemen present will be able to tell us whether they are at present. I have been told that this was so, Taking even these points I have mentioned from simple jottings I have made, I think the representatives of the railway and steamship companies should look at this matter fairly and squarely, and meet us like men, and do something towards remedying some of these difficulties. Let them do what they can. We are willing to wait. We are willing to put up and be satisfied with some improvement if we can see some improvement going on. We do want to see some improvement. We cannot go to-morrow and ask people to extend their orchard area, We cannot advise them to do such things unless we get the accommodation necessary to place that fruit in competition with other countries in Great Britain, We must come into competition with other countries. We have the fruit here. We know that there is no country in the world can grow a commercial apple, a winter apple of as high a flavour as we can in this Canada of ours, The finest apples in the world are Canadian apples. We challenge the world to meet us in any market for apples. We have the flavour, and some seem to have struck the happy medium in apple culture. We want the carrying companies to assist us in building up this trade to which there is practically no limit. After the British market is supplied I can understand that there are other markets we can go to. We are willing to meet with the fruits of other countries in all these markets and compete for a place, and I believe we can compete successfully if we can get the arrangements to suit us for fruit in transportation. (Applause). Mr. P, C. Dempsey.—Mr, Chairman and gentlemen,—The selecting and packing of fruit for the market is something like the old fashioned recipe for cooking the bear— catch him first;” so we want to consider what we are to do to get the fruit first. If we cannot get good fruit it is nonsense for us to talk of selecting and packing properly for the foreign market, because our foreign markets don’t want our fruits unless they are good. Attention should always be given to the thinning of our fruits. The fruits are easily thinned now, and in dealing with it we can accomplish two or three different points. One is, that when we thin out the branches and remove a large propor- tion of the fruit buds and a large proportion at the same time of wood buds we are accom- plishing two objects. Another is, that we prevent our trees from exhausting themselves in blossoming. We hear so many people say when we are looking over the country in the spring of the year: “We are not likely to have a good crop of fruit this year. We have an abundance of bloom, but the bloom is pale.” Why is it pale? The tree is actually exhausting itself in blossoms, and the result is there is no vitality in them or in the tree to induce the flower to properly seed. This accounts for the failure and people can see it in the paleness of the blossoms. The petal of the blossom does not properly develop. Again, the colouring of our fruit comes through the foliage. The flavour, or that saccharine matter which gives to our fruit its good flavor, comes from the foliage, and by thinning the wood buds, we lessen the quantity of foliage and by this mcans increase the size, the strength and the health of the foliage. So this 1s the season of the year to thin out our fruit. We have more time to do it now and it is easier done. I could not see how I could get at my subject without laying the foundation first. Now, when we get the first quality of fruit we can calculate that we are quite safe and can depend on fancy prices. I will just quote a few of the fancy prices that have been obtained this year for certain varieties of apples in Covent Garden, London. Qualities of Newton Pippins on the same day varied from thirty shillings to eighty per barrel. Why should there be such a difference? The one lot evidently was properly selected, properly packed, and arrived in good order. I have seen barrels of apples opened there, and you would see one barrel from which they had neglected to pick out the blemished apples—those not fit for that market. These blemished apples ought tot to be sent there at all. Perhaps every apple in the other barrel is perfect. It does not matter so much about the size of the class so much; consequently we should carefully pick over our apples if we are going to ship them to England and put in nothing but first-class specimens, uniform in size throughout the barrel and as uniform in colour as possible. Under no circumstances should we allow our- selves to be influenced to have poorer apples in the centre of the barrel than the barrel is faced with. So much for selecting our apples. Now, if we go there we will see how careful they are—that is, the growers—even in selecting their potatoes for market. ‘he potatoes are never sent to market in England without being rid- dled. They send none but perfect specimens; nothing but comes up to a certain style. All the smaller ones are out. By this means the purchaser has confidence in the potatoes without examining them—confident that they are all going to be like the sample. We want to have our apples all like the sample that appears on open- ing the barrel. If they open one barrel, let that be used for an index of our ship- ment. Now, in preparing the barrels for packing where we are packing in barrels, for foreign shipments, we want to cut the stems off. We must not pull it out. | have in my hand an apple from which the stem has been pulled, and the result is that the apple has begun to decay where the stem was removed. That is invariably the result. Ina short timeit will spoil. They will lay it to the bruise that always takes place at the end of the barrel, that is caused from pressing the head on. An apple scarcely ever takes injury from the pressing it gets. The injury is caused from pulling out the stem. Now, by taking a pair ofscissors and cutting off the stem, we prevent the stem from pressing on the apple or cutting the skin, and we also pre- vent it from rotting by the pulling of it out. Then they should be carefully placed in closing the barrel. Allow me here to say, that it pays to line the end of the barrel with paper; and white paper is better than any other. It does not cost much. If we line the end of the barrel with paper, simply getting this light building paper and cutting it out to the proper size of the head of the barrel, and place it in first, they will open up very much pret- tier and the bruises will not show as much as if you had not used the paper at all. When we get this done, we try for foreign shipment to set our barrel ona large flat stone or plank, so that we can shake it every time we put in a peck or halfa bushel of apples in the barrel. It does not get the same jar if it be not on something hard, We continue this shaking until we get the barrel full, and by thoroughly 24 shaking them we do not have to raise the applies so high nor to press them 80 heavily, and consequently not to bruise them in putting on the head. Where these points are observed we find no difficulty with respect to slacking. [ did have one shipment that was twenty days on the Atlantic, and they were all slack when they arrived, I fancy that accounts for a great deal of slack packing, and what will apply to forfeign markets will apply to our own as well. At our home markets we can afford to take less for second quality apples. I should not ship any seconds across the Atlantic, but I would ship nothing but firsts. There is a market for second quality here, which does not amount to so much, and they can be sold cheaper. I have noticed in our markets that there is very little difference in what we realized for first and second quality. We generally mark our apples in three qualities: X, XX, XXX. The XXX is generally only fit for the foreign market. The XX we ship to our markets in Canada, and we find very little difference between the receipts from them and from the better quality. But the X, of course, has gone down so that the difference is noticed. Here is a point we want to notice very particularly in packing fruits. A certain quantity of apples went from one part of the country to Montreal this year. They were all seconds or thirds, but were marked firsts. Now this should never be done, from the fact that it has a tendency to lead dealers to suspect that all fruit growers are rogues. They are not all that. There are honest men among fruit growers as well as among other classes of people; but that man who would mark a second quality barrel of apples as first should not be countenanced by this association or anybody else. (Applauce); because he demoralizes the trade and his conduct has a tendency to arouse suspicion against other fruit growers who wish to be honest. Now as to theform of package. J noticed in London the French people were shipping pears in boxes—a certain number to each box. The boxes were made to hold a certain number in proportion to the size of the fruit; but only one tier of pears was put in each box. The boxes contained 4, 6, 8 or 12 pears. Twelve was the most I saw in one case. You may have noticed from quotations in the London markets this year that a great many cases of pears were sold from 3s. 6d.—that is the lowest I heard of in selling at—to 16s. per case. Now I saw in one instance between Christmas and New Years, where a case containing four Glout Morceau pears sold for 1és. There is 4s. apiece for pears. Will it pay us to grow them carefully and pack them carefully in any style of package we see fit to use and ship at that price? It will pay at 3s. 6d a case well. The way this is done is to have a shallow case made, which they get up very neat and nice. They line them with cotton batting and place the pears in, and put a little tier of batting between each specimen, so there is no chance for the pears to move while in this little case. Then there is a layer of batting put over them again and tissue paper cut ornament- ally put about the border. There is a little lid with wire hinges and a hvok to hold it down. This little box is easily opened and easily closed; it looks very neat, and the pears are very attractive when it is opened up. These cases are packed in larger crates, so that they are quite easily shipped—just as easily as barrels of fruits, I fancy it would pay us to send our finestapples that way. It would pay us to grow the very finest. You may have noticed that somewhere between the 12th and 15th Janu- ary the last English apples were sold there. Take Cox’s Orange Pippin. It is a small apple; yet these apples sell for 4 pence each. That amounts to $25 per bushel. Only calculate for a moment if it will pay to grow apples at just a quarter of that price. We can grow in our orchards here just as fine Cox’s Orange Pippins with ordinary cultivation as they can in England and Wales. I know this to be a fact, because I have shown Cox’s Orange Pippins grown in my orchard against the same variety grown on the wall in Engiand. I could not see any difference, and they acknowledged they could find no difference in the flavour. Those which wero grown in the open orchard there were very inferior to ours both in flavour, form and colour. Now, what applies to Cox’s Orange Pippin applies to any other variety. A question arises right here, which we had better settle at once, because it is important. Why is it there are not more of Cox’s Orange Pippin and fine varieties grown in this country than there are? Do not misunderstand that question, Why is it thereare no more? I will tellyou. It takes a nurseryman four years to raise one of these trees four feet high. It is a little growing thing then. It is quite hardy, but it grows so slow that farmers will not have them. If an agent came to deliver Cox’s Orange Pippin, such as the best nurserymen grow, the farmer would kick him off his premises. Thus the farmers are destroying their own trade by wanting an extra fine looking tree. They simply compel nurserymen to grow worthless varieties because they make the finest tree. We want to do away with this idea. A Mrmprer—W hat is the season for Cox’s Orange Pippin? Mr. Dempsry.—December and January. It may be kept easily through Jan- uary with care. It is avery fine apple in November. From all the accounts that I have been able to gather, the fruits grown in the interior of Russia are dwarf-grow- ing. They grow low. I have a tree in my garden that is very hardy, It origin- ated in the north of Scotland and has been producing a good crop of apples every year for the last 12 or 15 years; yet itis no bigger than a currant bush now. It makes a healthy growth every year. It is a very hardy variety, and would grow in Ottawa or anywhere in Canada. The snow protects it. Nearly the whole tree is under the snow. The apple is also very fine; but we do not want to grow such little trees. We can grow something that becomes larger and more profitable—not more productive on the whole, because you could grow these trees four feet apart, and I believe an acre of them would be remunerative. Now, I have it in my mind that nothing woull pay us better than to adopt the principle of packing our fruits in these little boxes ready for the retailer to sell in this market or the Montreal market, or in any other marketin the world. Iam satisfied we cannot getsuch prices here for fancy pears and apples as in Covent Garden Market, London; but we can certainly get better prices by shipping them in that shape. The cost would not exceed ten cents for a box that would hold a dozen Bartlett pears or a dozen Flemish Beauty pears, Supposing that box would sell in our market at 30 or 40 cents, would it pay us very much more than the prices we receive by the barrel, even by leaving out all our culled fruit to feed to the pigs, such as we sometimes ship in barrels? I fancy that these little boxes can be gotten up for perhaps four cents apiece, because they can be made ofa thin stuff, such a8 we make baskets of, and cheaper than the crate basket holding the same quantity. Now, for shipping in baskets I find invariably that the basket that is a little slanting keeps the fruit better and stands shipping better than one that is perpendicular. It should be alittle slanting to the bottom and arranged some way that that part is always kept down. The fruit is wedged in that way, and if that one side can be kept down, the apples can never roll and chafe about. You can understand the advantage of hav- ing a package a little slanting where there is more than one thickness or one tier deep. Now something has been hinted about perforated barrels. I don’t want to oppose any enterprise of that kind, It may be proved to be of very great advantage to us to use the perforated barrel or the open package, but that is not in accordance with my experience. I find that if our fruitis packed a little warmer than the temperature is likely to be when it leaves our hands in a close package it invariably carries better and is safer than where it is in open packages and the fruit cooler than when we pack it. When the fruit is cooler than the surrounding atmosphere, you will almost invariably find condensing moisture from the surrounding atmosphere, and the pack- age becomes wet, and the result is decayed fruit. Almost invariably, I fancy, ifour fruits could be packed in the same temperature that they would have when they are put in the hold of the ship they would carry perfectly safe, but as a general thing they go to the hold of the ship cool and they are put in this warm place. They condense a large amount of moisture, and in a short time you will,find water running out of the package on board the ship. I have seen this thing, and [ know what the effect is exactly. My friend, Mr. Allan, was speaking to you about delays in ship- ping. Just here I want to give you an idea. The steamship companies are not all to blame, and a practical illustration is better than any other way for you to under- stand how these things work. A certain gentleman whom I know started out with a carload of apples last fall to come to Ottawa with them. He had a stove in the 26 oo eS car, and when he got to Brockville he was shunted off. He was out of wood and could not get any wood. The fellow evidently had not ever been very far from home, or something else. He was the owner of the carload of apples. They let him there until his whole carload of apples became frozen, and he had the pleasure of looking at it. He did not know how to get the wood. He did not know how to keep the fire up, although it was easy for him to smash the head out of a barrel and treat the men. Another man started out with a carload of apples, and I said to him. when he was starting out: “What are you going todo?” He replied: “lam filling up these two baskets just fcr the men’s account. I am not going to be stopped along the road at all.” Sure enough, he had a few baskets of apples with him. When he got to Brockville he was shunted off. Some cars were going to Montreal and his car was going to Coteau around to Ottawa. When he was shunted off he said: “Gentlemen, you ain’t going to leave me here; are you coming in to eat some apples with me?” They had a jolly time there eating apples, and his car was hitched on and he came on, while the other fellow was left there. He got out of wood, when he got on his coat and said: ‘Here men, come in and have some apples.” In a few minutes he said: “Iam out of wood,” and in a few moments more he had plenty of wood thrown in. If you send a car of fruit it is shunted off at Brockville, on its way to Montreal, and it stands there four or five days for these fellows waiting to be. tipped. That is the result of my experience. There is no doubt that barrels have suffered considerably after they get on board the ship, though I must confess that all I have ever shipped went in perfect order, with the exception of some that were twenty days on the Atlantic. They were all black and bad. The Prusipent.—We have now listened to these two papers on the transporta- tion, selection and packing of fruits. The gentlemen have each noted in their own way important points for consideration. The most important points that we have to take up, I think, in connection with them, are those which concern the railroad and steamship companies, and so we have representatives of these companies here who are prepared, no doubt, to give us their views on the matter. I hope that we may arrive at some satisfactory result. In discussing those papers I will ask you to hear in mind that it is our object this evening to arrive at some mutual under- standing by which the difficulties presented to you may be overcome, and that the transport of fruit may be facilitated, and that the large foreign market which is now open to us, but of which we cannot avail ourselves at present, may be rendered valuable. I will, therefore, ask you to consider the points raised in these papers, and I trust those representatives of the transportation companies who are here will favour us with their views on the matter. Mr, Wartt.—Mr. Chairman and gentlemen—I have never had occasion to attend so large a convention as this, but I have been at conventions of the kind, in which the steamship people were made butts more or less; but there is one thing—nothing like show. A short time ago I was amongst some flour gentlemen, and there was nothing wanted but flour. The cattle men in Montreal just now are having con- siderable discussion. In fact, there is nothing to transport across the Atlantic but cattle and cheese. Mr, Allan objects to sending fruit with cattle. I have heard men object to sending their flour with fruit, cheese or other commodities. Hach gentleman thinks his commodities are all that we have or should have. The ship is the final deliverer, so to speak. She has to stand the trouble of all previous carriers who have carried the commodities to port by rail. The goods are carried partly by rail and partly by steamship, and the steamship happens to be the last one, and she generally gets the kicks. That is her experience on that sco:e. There is nothing which we carry as carriers which is more perishable than fruit. There is nothing more likely to suffer in course of transit. The difficulty we have is its short-lived character. The steamship people have, as a matter of course, to estab- lish the steamship service. We begin at the beginning of the season and carry on business weekly or fortnightly the year through. You gentlemen are not ready to give us anything in May, June, July or August. You have nothing to vive us in September; but in October and November you expect the whole steamship service wo wT at Montreal to be placed in the service of fruit. This is a very difficult thing to do —a very difficult thing, from the steamship point of view. Last year, 1889, I think we shipped only 140,000 or 150,000 barrels of fruit out of Montreal, while the pre- vious year we shipped 260,000 barre.s. Mr, Atian.—The rest went by New York. Mr. Warr.—Not at all. It was not in the country to ship; you had not the fruit to ship this season—that is perfectly well known. The New York shipments are precisely to the same effect. I only give these facts to show’ that the steamship. people have to take a wider view than the fruit people, the cheese people or the flour people. They have to formulate their rates to all classes of traffic, and they have to assimilate their space to all classes of traffic, and do their best with this multiplicity of business that comes to accommodate the freight. In the autumn it is especially difficult. The freight, so far as material is concerned, is confined to two months, during the time during which the harvest crop moves, and the dealers in every special expect just the same service as the freight which has been giving the service during the whole season; so we have to cut down our best customers, in a certain sense and disappoint and shove them out in order to make a service for that two months’ business. We want to encourage all the business we can in the St. Lawrence of this varied character, because if one class of business fails another will keep up. We want to assimilate the fruit, just as cheese, flour or other products of the country. Ido not think I need answer the complaints made by Mr, allan, as they are matters of detail that can be discussed by the parties. I believe it is true that the railway companies prefer giving bills of lading at shippers’ risk; but we receive fruit on the steamships just the same as other things. We count the pack- agés and give receipts by the package. So far as the steamship companies are concerned, I think I may say we will do our best to serve the interest of fruit growers. Mr. Bucke.—What is the difference between the freight on a barrel of flour and a barrel of apples ?—A. I do not think we have carried flour in barrels for five or six years: but the prices in October would be about the same. You might suppose that the apples would be cheaper, but they occupy the same space, I think we would carry it no cheaper. Ido not think we would ask any less, unless there were a great many barrels of apples and no flour. Broadly speaking, I should say the freight was the same. Mr. Torrance.—Mr,. Allan—I believe that is his name, although I have nut the pleasure of his acquaintance—has made some statements which I call in question. He says he visited Montreal, I suppose in the interests of the Fruit Growers’ Association, and had gone on board a steamer of one of the lines, That was all right. He did not callon me. I had not the pleasure of a visit from him. As the representative of the Dominion Line, I should have been only too glad to have gone on board one of our ships and shown him the accommodation; but he evidently did not think it worth his while. I leave it for this meeting to say if his business was in the general interest, and if he did the right thing in thus acting. He made some strong statements about the shipment of fruit. Did he ever ship a barrel of apples? The bills for a great many thousand barrels of apples have passed through my hands, and I have never seen his name. Does he ship any? Mr. McD, Ati.an—I think the fruit growers of Ontario will answer that. Mr. WooLterton—He is one of our largest shippers. Mr. Torrance—That is news to me. He made a statement about the damage from boilers. Was he ever ov board a vessel, and has he ever seen where the boilers are? I think if he had taken the pains to look into that question he would have seen that the chance of damage from that is very slight indeed. Then he made another statement about the place where cattle are kept, and the chance of damage there was from smell. Well, I simply want to say, as far as regards the Dominion Line, we never make a practice of putting apples where we put cattle. Then about the handling of apples in Montreal, he gave the impression that they were handled better by one company than another. I would simply state the handling is the 28 SSS same by them all. The fruit is delivered by the railway to the steamship companies in the usual way, and each company handles apples alike. Then he made another statement of the very great number of claims. Now, I may say, as far as I am con- cerned that the claims we get are very small indeed, I do not think this yeara claim has come for ten barrels, as regards quantities. Then there is another state- ment I would like to make. The receivers of apples on the other side have frequently made the statement to the Dominion Line that no steamers arriving in Liverpool deliver their fruit in better condition, The fact is, that this winter from Portland, thousands of barrels per week were going forward by this line in preference to any other. Mr. Watt has made a statement that the steamship com- panies were only too anxious to do everthing in their power to facilitate business, and make it as pleasant as possible for shippers. I can only say the same thing. Mr. McD. Atian.—I am called upon to reply to these remarks. The first remark was that he wished to know the reason I did notvisit the Dominion Line. I was not invited, I was invited to visit the other lines. He says I made a statement that apples were placed where the cattle were. I made no such statement. I do not profess to know exactly the names of the various compartments of the vessel; but I never presumed that apples were put in precisely the same compartment with cattle. Mr. Torrance.—I did not mean that. ; Mr, AuLan.—They are placed in the same vessel, and what we are afraid of, and according to our reports, is that the apples are damaged in flavour. We get these reports from the other side. We get them, we think, from reliable sources, and a simple denial is not sufficient. We get these reports and we infer that there must be some way ot the stench from these cattle reaching the fruit. I do not know whether the compartment is close enough or not. There must be some way of clos- ing it, so that this stench will not reach the fruit. Ifthere is any crevice and the smell reaches the fruit, 1 can assure you that it will damage it. I merely throw that out, There is no insult offered, and I think it was unmanly to get up and make the statements we have just heard, to try and creep out of this matter in the way endeavoured. We put the thing fair and square, in the hope that these gentlemen who are here representing the steamship companies will see that no crevices are left open by which the stench from the cattle could possibly reach and damage the fruit. It is of no consequence whether I know where the boilers are or not. We have the reports that the fruit is heated on arrival, and that the heat has come from the boil- ers. Whether the fruit has been packed exactly up to the boilers or not 1 do not know; but I presume it must have been sufficiently near to do a certain amount of damage. The fruit has certainly been damaged by heating. It is possible it may be in some other part of the vessel. where it is surrounded by other things, but at all events we know it has been heated, If some system of introducing the atmospheric blast, that has been spoken of, were adopted in that part of the vessel, it might remedy that. Ifit is cheap, it is a good thing in any case. It would satisfy the fruit grow- ers and shippers. It would bea boon tous. It would help to carry the fruit in proper shape. There was another point that occurred to me, while one of the gentle- man was speaking, that there must be considerable damage to the apples from piling them tier on tier inthe hold. We have heard that complaint frequently. I intended to suggest that the steamship owners should look into that, and see if there is not some simple remedy ; by relieving the pressure by means of cross bars—something that would bear up the pressure from the barrels beneath. We have had reports that the apples in the lower tiers could only be sold as “ wets.” __ Mr. Torrancz.—As fur as regards the placing of cattle, they are placed on a different deck from the apples. It is water tight and must be tight, and it is utterly impossible for the effluvia to get down. Mr. AtLan.—There is no doubt but that the damage is there. The Presipent.—The object is to present these facts to the shippers, in order that we may have an impartial discussion, so as to endeavour to arrive at some means of meeting the difficulty. I trust that no statement will be made to reflect on any one, 29 Mr. THoms,—When you were good enough to invite the representative of the Beaver Line to be present we felt it was a good opportunity to meet the fruit growers of the Dominion, and I am here to-night. Mr. Watts seems to have covered the steamship ground pretty thoroughly, and before going into anything further in that direction I desire to thank Mr. Allan for the kindly way he spoke of the Beaver Line. I have no bones to pick with him; anyway, not just now. It had been mentioned before that the handling of fruit at Montreal did not compare favourably with New York. Now, I have had considerable experience in New York as a steamship man, and I have no hesitation in saying that I consider the handling of fruit in Montreal is equal if not better than at any other port along the Atlantic coast. I think every care is given to it. I am satisfied that steamship men are only too glad to bring all the fruit by way of Montreal and not allow it to go to New York. They take special care in the handling. I think my friend Mr. Allan felt, a couple of years ago, that there was no place like New York, and he ventilated his ideas pretty freely. It was then I first took up the subject and introduced fans into our boats. As regards claims, we have not had a single claim for apples. The question was asked and that is the answer. Mr, Watt stated that apples were received and a receipt given on the actual count of the packages. The railway companies put in “ shipper’s count,” but we pay no attention to that when once the reach us. You say that ventilated cars will be provided, and I am satisfied that the steamship companies from Montreal can carry the fruit forward in as good condition as it can possibly be taken across the Atlantic. It has been suggested to me that I ‘should mention that the St. Lawrence route would compare favorably from the fact that we have several days after the steamer leaves Montreal before you are at sea, whereas you are at sea in an hour or two after leaving New York and Boston. With reference to apples, the rate being higher than on other cargoes, I think the rate on apples, considering that they take the same space, is just as low and just as cheap other cargoes. There is one point I would like to call the attention of shippers to. They do not realize the necessity of advising the steamship agent when shipments are made. A man will ship five cars, and the first intimation that the steamship company has is that there are so many barrels of apples for us at the Canadian Pacific or the Grand Trunk yards. They cannot expect that the fruit can be attended to in a hurry unless they give us some advice. If the steamship com- panies had advice by wire or by postal card that they had shipped the goods it enables the steamship companies to trace these cars, and the railway companies are only too anxious to assist us in getting these cars forward. In many cases they have gone to a great deal of trouble to get them forward in time for our steamers. I have no doubt the railway companies will do all they can to get these cars forward. We have every desire to get them away, to keep up our reputation on the St. Lawrence as against any other port. Regarding the statement of Mr. Allan about the tiering of apples, I might say that apples are in no case stowed in the lower hold of the steamer. The decks are 6 ft. 6 in., 7 ft. 2in., and I think the Lake Ontario is 8 ft.2 in. That is exceptionally high. It is not possible to get over four tiers in, and I don’t think four tiers too much. They are never stowed in the lower holds. You cannot possibly get more than four on the decks, I don’t know that I have anything more to say, but to thank the fruit growers for having suggested to the steamship people better modes of carrying forward their fruit. I am sure we will only be too glad to carry out their suggestions as far as we can. I thank you for the opportunity of being present. Mr. Attan.—I may mention one point. When the agitation was got up some years ago for shipping by New York, I believe there was quite a large amount going by New York. The New York railways were exceedingly good to us, and forwarded everything with a view to drawing traffic. Since then we have noticed that the handling at Montreal has greatly improved. That fact shows just what agitation has done. We have done it by agitation. We want this agitation to bring us some gain. Mr, McMituan.—There is another thing which ought to receive attention here. I find in the western part of Ontario, in a locality that has no railway competition, 30 s that we do not get the same favourable rates as those localities which have com- petition receive. I ship a considerable quantity to the seaboard. After I ship my freight I get back from the men who receive it the way-bills. People to the north and south of me where they have competition, pay 95 cents per barrel, while we pay $1.05. That is 10 cents a barrel difference on a lot shipment of barrels, Whenever I ship apples to Montreal I advised the steamship companies and my apples were transported more rapidly than if I had not done so, I ship all my apples by the Donaldson line, and I made an arrangement that the apples were to be shipped in the front or the rear of the vessel. 1 am perfectly aware that the apples packed in the centre of the vessel, unless on the upper deck, will spoil. I have crossed with fruit and with cattle, and I am satisfied that unless apples are away from the boiler you cannot adopt any means to have them perfectly safe. All the apples I shipped arrived in perfect order, and if all those who ship apples will adopt the system of notifying the steamship companies their apples will be forwarded without being kept by the railways. I think the localities which have no competition should have the same means of getting as cheap rates as those which have competition. Mr. Gepp, representing"the Donaldson, Temperley & Thomson Lines, said: This is the first time that I have had the pleasure of addressing a meeting of this kind. I was much pleased at hearing the last speaker mention one of the lines I represent in such a favourable way. As regards the rates which he spoke about, I may say that ocean rates from Montreal during the whole of the fall of the year are fixed weekly by the agents of the several lines meeting together, and this rate, in the case of apples, was made early last September, I think it was at a minimum rate of 35 cents. This was maintained during the whole season, notwithstanding that the rates on other cargoes pointed to an increase. We recognized the fact, amongst the whole of us, that to try and increase the shipment of apples to the old country it was necessary that we sbould have a regular rate, I can assure the gentlemen present that the rate from Montreal to the other side is the same for all shippers. There is no discrimina- tion between any of the lines, as far as I know. There isa point or two that has been brought up by the discussion this evening, andI may mention the packing. Last fall we had a number of barrels of apples come to Montreal, and they were mostly chime hoops, and it is not possible for either the railways or the steamship companies to do justice to the shippers in these. ‘They should see that the barrels are properly headed and the heads sufficiently strong that they won’t break, because I have known a number where it was impossible to handle such barrels without knocking out the heads. The handling in Montreal is the same by all lines. We all take equaily great care to see them properly handled while in our custody and to see that they are properly handled by our separate stevedores. There has been something said regard- ing ventilation on board steamers. This has been an important factor, and we have considered it as fully as the Beaver Line, as has been stated by Mr. Allan. They pro- vided for ventilation in the lower holds, by which not only flour but butter and cheese are kept as cool as it is possible with the outside air. I don’t say we keep ice chambers but we do try to keep the holds of the vessels as pure as the outside air. Regarding the shipment of cattle, they have an impression that cattle and the cargo always go together. Only a few ships out of the port of Montreal donot carry cattle, Of the steamers sailing out of the port of Montreal the only ones that don’t carry cattle are the mail boats. The other boats all carry cattle, and we make it a point to keep the cargoes separate from the cattle. Invariably the steamer going out has cattle on one or two decks, and the cargo is placed below, as Mr. Thoms tried to explain to you, the oar- lock deck. It is perfectly water-tight and air-tight, and no effluvia nor any of the dung from between decks can reach the apples. With regard to the complaint about delays with the railway companies, the shipper, in notifying the railway company should take care to have the numbers and the initials of the cars, giving us the route by which they are shipped. Ifthe shippers do this they will find that the agents at Montreal are always ready to see that their freight receives proper dispatch. But this very important item is very often left undone. Sometimos it requires repeated telegrams to tell the initials of the corporation owning the cars, so that we can trace 1 31 the cars and see that they do arrive in Montreal in good time for the steamers, It has already been mentioned that we guarantee the count, and if there is any short- age we pay it. — Mr. Attay;—Would your agents throughout the country, at the different points on the bills of lading taking the goods by rail to Montreal ? Mr. Gzpp.—All the railway companies, as far as I know, will grant you guaran- teed bills of lading, provided you load your cars at such a station where they have a tally on your barrels. We get the repeat bills of lading guaranteed, and the steamship company checks the goods with the bills. Sometimes, as I understand it, these apples are shipped at out, of the way stations, on the siding, and they are simply loaded into the cars at the shipper’s direction and sent two, three or four hundred miles, and may come on the bill of lading “shippers count.” I think, Mr. Chairman, these are all the points necessary for me to bring up. We shall in every way try and forward the interests of the fruit growers and shippers of Canada, and anything you want done we will only be too happy to try and do it, as far as prac- ticable. Mr. Hugston, of the Canadian Pacific Railway.—I cannot state what our com- pany can do further than what they have done in the past. If there is any sugges- tion that any of the gentlemen wish to make that they think will facilitate the shipping of fruit we shall only be too glad to adopt it, as far as it is practicable todo so. There have been a good many points raised by Mr. Allan. One was that there was a shortage of cars. That is a matter which theoretically looks very easy; but when you come to a practical solution it is sometimes a little difficult to meet the requirements of all the localities, We have car distributors at different pointe along the road, and as this is perishable freight we give it the preference over other freight. In regard to the question of granting bills of lading at shipper’s count, I do not know that there is any objection to giving a clear receipt in any case, where it is practicable to count the shipment of apples. There may be some exceptions where apples ure shipped from sidings where it is not practicable for our men or agents to count them; but in no case where it is practicable for them to be counted is there any objection to giving a clear receipt. I have listened with a great deal of interest to the remarks of Mr. Allan with regard to the transportation of fruit, and I shall take pleasure in placing the views expressed by him before our manager. I have no doubt that, as far as itis practicable, everything will be done to facilitate the shipment of this important freight. Ido not know that there is anything further that I can state, but I shall be pleased to answer any questions that may be asked me with regard to freight, The Presipent.—We interviewed the Canadian Express Company with reference to such transportation of fruit as they are in the habit of dealing with, and J have a letter here from the President touching upon that point. It may be of some inter- est in this connection, although the whole volume of freight which they carry is com- paratively small. The letter is as follows :— “ MonrreaL, 17th February, 1890. Prof. PennaLtiow, McGill College, Montreal. “ My Dzar S1r,—I understand there is soon to be a meeting at Ottawa of those directly interested in horticulture and fruit growing, the different parts of the Dominion to be represented. Iam glad to know this, as it can scarcely fail to increase the interest in this important industry. For many years I have felt much interest in our local association for the Province of Quebec, and have done whatI could in my small way to encourage it, and I feel sure that anything to awaken the interest of the general public will be in the right direction. I believe that the finest fruit can be grown at a profit in many parts of the Dominion. Iam not aware what parti- cular points will be discussed, but presume the growth of the different kinds of fruit, the mode of packing, the transportation and the markets will be considered.. These seem to me important. 32 “As for myself, I do not feel competent to deal with this, except perhaps to say a word on transportation for such as may besent by express. The Canadian Express Company, which I have represented for many years, have done much to facilitate the quick and safe despatch of the smaller and more perishable fruits, furnishing venti- lated cars with proper shelving for packing the larger shipments to most distant points, all fruit being forwarded on fast express trains at rates consistent with cost, and we shall continue to do so, and will be glad at any time to meet authorized repre- sentatives in the trade for conference as to future transactions. The whole amount cartied by express, however, as compared with other modes of transportation, is very small, and may not claim the attention of the meeting; but should shipments for Europe be sent vid the St. Lawrence, we will be glad to offer the best facilities from inland to shipping point, in quantities consistent with our mode of forwarding. “ Hoping you will have a successful meeting, “JT remain, yours very truly, “G, CHENEY, “ President.” The Prestpent.—I think we have heard pretty fully the views of the transportation companies concerning what facilities they offer, but it seems to me that it would be desir- able if we could reach some definite conclusion with reference to the improvement of existing methods, so far as that may be possible. Undoubtedly, as far as we can judge from the evidence that reaches us from abroad, some improvement may be made at least, and if such can be made within reasonable bounds it seems to me one important object of this meeting will be accomplished. I should like to hear from some of the representative shippers, both of fruit and dairy produce, what they would suggest in connection with what has been said, and then we may possibly get from the representaves of the transportation companies some statements as to future movements. Mr. McD, Atian.—In speaking of the express companies, that is one of the points we had not touched upon before at this meeting; but it is a point which has been touched upon at other meetings. It is an important point. I do not know any other way by which you can get your basketed fruit, or fruit in boxes, more completely smashed up than by sending by express. They do it most beautifully. I remember at the time of the Indian and Colonial Exhibition, the Dominion Gov- ernment had their fruit all over the various Provinces, and dispatched to the sea- board by express, thinking, in the innocence of their hearts, that because the express companies charged a high rate they would take better care of the goods. What was the result? We did everything in our power to induce them to take care of the goods. The packages were labelled “To be handled with care;” “This side up.” They were packages that had been specially prepared for easy and safe hand- ling. We appealed to them personally and by letter, as Canadians, as men interested in the welfare of this country, to do what they could to place the products of this country before the world at the Indian and Colonial Exhibition in good shape. The result was, that out of two tons of grapes that might have been handled easily, and would have arrived there if handled properly in very good order, we had a mass of pulp and juice. The baskets were turned and twisted, and any side up or any end up. We saw that ourselves. We saw the agents handling them, I saw them at Goderich handling these goods, and called their attention to the fact that they were handling them as if they were stones, flinging them about in any sort of rough way. Our experience with express companies has been terrible, Our experience at that exhibition, in regard to the handling of the fruit, was most dis- couraging. We find the same experience has been met with by some of the shippers of small fruits. Parties sending packages of peaches or pears, how often do we get them as they were sent? How otten as full as they were sent? This last summer I got three or four baskets of peaches, as we had no peaches or very little fruit of any sort in our section. The baskets were full of good fruit when they left, but when they reached me the gauze was torn off and quite a number of the peaches 383 extracted. We do not find the packages specially opened and the fruit extracted in « that way but we do miss packages in the count. As some of the gentlemen have sug- gested, if the steamship companies will give the count, and if the agents of the rail- way companies at the stations will take these goods and give us bills of lading on that count it willbe all right. You cannot get the railway agent or any of his men to give the count; they won’t do it. They have done it on rare occasions, under pressure; but as a rule they won’t give you the count. Mr. J. T. McBripz, of Montreal_—I have made money out of apples, and I can make more. I think, perhaps, we are a little too hard on the steamship companies and the express companies. I have shipped fruit to Liverpool and other ports, and have never asked a favour of a steamship or an express’ company that I did not get. Last year I had $48,000 worth of the finest California fruit. My claims for the year were $76. This year 1 shipped to Liverpool, and my claims were only $10. They paid it at once. Ifthey knew what we wanted, I think they would give it tous. For several years the California fruit coming down to Montreal was badly handled. For years it was badly handled in the west, and they ran aspecial car. They cannot always getgood men, | cannot get good men in my warehouse; I make rules, and every day they are broken. I cannot get good men to pack my apples, although I pay them all they ask. Over 2,000 barrels of apples got to Liverpool rubbish. I have orders from the biggest house in Britain for apples, and they say: “ If you cannot ship by Montreal, don’t ship me any apples.” They won’t have them from New York. I have had thousands of barrels of apples arrive in New York, and I never had them handled as well as in Montreal. I think the steamship companies can keep the bar- rels where there is no heat. They cannot afford to give us thecattle decks, because the cattle pay far better. I have worked in the ships all night and all day, and where they knew what we want they have always given it. Mr. Starr.—I have been very much interested in the discussion so far. I will not detain you with any remarks at any length. While I agree in the main with the first two speakers, there are some of their views to which I take decided objection. In view of the fact that so many steamship representatives have been heard to-night, possibly I might not have the same opportunity of meeting them again. I would like to ask one or two questions which possibly they can answer. One is with reference to the bills of lading. I have observed that the bills of lading contain a clause that a charge of 1s. 6d. per ton was made on all fruits of a certain class—that bears upon apples—tfor discharging at the docks in London, I would like to askif this is custom- ary with you in Montreal. Another-question I would like to ask is with reference to a clause which I find in the bills of Jading used by the steamship companies, that the freight is payable ship lost or not lost. This is the usual clause. If this is the case is it fair play to the shippers to insert such a clause in any bills of lading ? Reference has been made to the difficulties and delays in the handling at ports, and soon. I may say thatthat don’t apply to many cases in NovaScotia. We have more fault to find with the steamship companies or their agents on the other side than we have with our agents in Nova Scotia, in the handling offruit. We can ship our fruit in Nova Scotia and in four or five hours they have it in the boat, In cold weather we usually accompany the fruit and look after it. We have no fault to find with the handling of the fruit going into the boats, but we have a decided objection to the way the fruit is handled when it is being taken out of the boats. Take, for instance, a shipment of 3,840 barrels a short time ago, at London; there were 130 barrels broken open. This, it appears, was done in the discharge of the cargo, in the hurry. They handle them from six to ten at a time, and hoist them by steam winches. Coming up through the hatchways, if they catch anything they break off the hoops, the heads come off, and the apples are scattered to the four winds of heaven. If a claim is put in the steamship company claims that it is not responsible. I instructed my agents in London to enter suit against a steamship company at a cost of $300. A short time ago an opinion of the best counsel in London was taken upon the matter. I have the written opinion of Aberley Muir, the celebrated counsel in London, as to the case in hand, that in view 3 34 of the bills of lading which were presented and the claims made, that he could not advise us, under any circumstances, to prosecute, as we had nota leg to stand upon— that, so long as we accepted these bills of lading we should have to bear the loss. There are times when we can put up witha loss of this kind. When fruit is bringing high prices, we don’t mind if we lose a few dollars, but when fruit is comparatively low it is a serious matter, and if it is a matter that agitation will do anything to help I should say continue the debate, and let us have a remedy if it is possible. There are many other points in the addresses that were made which | should like to discuss, and possibly I may have an opportunity at a future session; but I shall not take ap any more time to-night. I hope to hear a reply from some person present as to the question I have asked with reference to bills of lading. Mr. Wart.—I am quite free to confess I can throw very little light on the ques- tion asked. The ship,has no rights at London. She goes into port and is fastened up alongside the wharf. The dock companies discharge her and put the goods into their own storehouses and deliver to the consignees. They charge the ship so much and the shippers so much; but we are perfectly powerless. The clause referred to is put in at the instance of the receivers there. We can do business fairly well at Liverpool, but at London we can only do business as the Londoners choose to do it. If ships will consign to London they will be continually under these disabilities. As to the payment of freight whether the ship is lost or not lost, that applies to freight prepaid. If you prepay your freight, then the losses rest with the shipper. Mr. Starr.—We are not in the habit of prepaying our freight. Mr. Wart,—Then the clause is inoperative. Mr. Starr.—I would gather from these remarks that Mr. Watt wishes to in- timate that better facilities are offered at Liverpool than London. That has not been our experience, either in marketing or shipping. I am not here to stand up for any port or house; still, 1 am free to state that I have represented respectable houses in London, and my experience has not been, as it has been hinted, that if we are sending fruit to Covent Garden Market we will have to pay dear for our whistle. Mr. Gepp.—There is just one question asked by Mr. Allan that I would like to reply to: that is, as to shipping apples to Montreal and getting a clear receipt. If Mr. Allan will take out a local shipping rate and send it to any one of the steamship companies, we, on receipt of it, will always be happy to give the shipper a clear bill of lading for what we receive. Then we guarantee quantities. The Presrpent.—Have any of the shippers of dairy produce anything to say? Mr, Broprz.—The rough handling the fruit gets in Montreal is between the railway station and the ship. I have seen apples carted along in trucks at a rate that would shake the apples to pieces. My opinion is that there is no better way of carrying apples than in spring waggons. When these carts are loaded, these barrels roll off sometimes, and they generally have a cooper there to fix them up. General Lavrire.—I shall not have an opportunity of speaking again, and I must ask you to pardon me if I say a few words now. I have spent a considerable time in England during the last winter, and in passing around constantly among the green grocers I did not see as many good-looking apples anywhere as I have scen here to-night. I do not say this to butter up the fruit growers, but to warn them that they are not taking the means to get their apples to London properly, If it pays to wrap up every orange in paper, which is afterwards sold for a half-penny in London, it would pay to pat an apple in paper and sell it for four pence. To put a piece of paper at the top and bottom of a barrel is not, however, enough. The apples that are exhibted in London have been addressed to shipping companies, and are not acceptable because of spots and bruises. That is the fault of the shippers. A more miserable lot of apples than those offered for sale in J.ondon I have never seen, I grant you that they are nearly all labelled “ American Apples,” and it is in your hands to see that all apples are delivered in London go that the name of Canadian apples will rise. Have them properly marked. Nine out of ten apples are bruised or spotted this year. I have been at the Army and Navy co-oper- ative stores, where a very large business is done, and also at the Civil Service 35 co-operative stores, and they told me they knew very little about Canadian goods. The quantity of American goods there is very large. One of the gentlemen told me, icking up a spotted and bruised apple, that that was as good as they could get. hy, if Canadian goods are as good as it is stated, cannot Canadians send them home in decent shape? I have taken the liberty to speak of this, having but recently returned from England. | do not know enough of apples to speak of sorts; but the vast majority of apples offered are sold as Newtown Pippins. There are as many different sorts as there are on these tables sold as Newtown Pippins. Now, I repeat, if it pays to pack oranges separately in paper and sell them for a half- penny, it would pay us to get eight times that price by taking care that our apples arrive in good shape. The Prusrprnt.—It has impressed me, as this discussion has progressed, that one of the great difficulties of getting fruit to England properly is that our packages are too large. It strikes me, if the size of the packages were reduced by one-half, and were square in shape, it would pay us better, Mr, Saergerp.—My experience has been very limited as compared with that of the large shippers in Montreal. For three years past I have been shipping fine table apples of the highest class, such as the Fameuse and Wealthy, which any gentleman would care to have on his dinner table. Ido not ship in barrels. I class my apples as Al, and these are put into cases. These cases aresuch as were produced by the Cochrane Patent Case Company some years ago, I think it was patented, but I have manufactured boxes, notexactly like it, but which answer the purpose just as well, and they are packed as eggs are packed, in the cases, with pieces of paste- board, with twelve to sixteen dozen apples in acase. Last year I shipped, I think, sixty or seventy cases of Fameuse and Wealthy that brought $3 a case in Montreal. I think it pays to take special care in packing your fruit. We took the precaution in some cases of wrapping each apple in tissue paper, and the reports I have received of the condition in which the fruit arrived in England are very favourable. I received a letter a little while ago from a gentleman, stating that the fruit would be worth in Covent Garden, London, from three to six shillings a dozen. I shipped on the order of the Montreal agent, and he shipped to his agent in London, who sent back an answer to the agent in Montreal, and I saw the letter, in which the London agent stated that that fruit would be six shillings a dozen in Covent Garden. Mr. Autan.—I believe the question of the package is an important one. I think a two-bushel barrel would be large enough, and 1 think a one-bushel barrel would pay better still. If our law, instead of requiring a three-bushel barrel, would require a two-bushel barrel, or part of it, we would be in a better position for shipping. The neater the package the better. A square package is not so good, in my opinion, as the barrel package—that is, if you are going to fill it and make it tight, and with a closed top. I would not approve of a box package. Mr. SuepHerp.—Of course, in a compartment case there is no possible chance of the fruit being disturbed at all. Itis just like an egg case. There is no possible chance of the fruit being moved about. Of course, it would not pay to pack these cases; except with the highest quality of fruit, and mark the case A No. 1. Mr. Srarr.—There is a difficulty of crushing in these pasteboard boxes. During the summer of 1886 there were some apples sent to the Colonial Exhibition packed in these boxes, and the result was very unsatisfactory indeed. We found entire boxes in which the fruit had decayed, and the box was weakened and the fruit was crushed together. Have you found much difficulty? Mr. Saepuerp.—I cannot say I have experienced anything of that kind. We were particular in seeing that the case was secure, and that the apples just fitted in. You must be careful that the apples fit the squares, and they must be just of the exact size to fit the squares. That is why much time is taken up filling the cases. If it were not for that you could fill the cases much quicker. There is another advantage in it, for the reason that the purchaser knows there are no smallones in it or no extra large ones. They can be perfectly well assured that the bottom layer 33 36 is the same as the top layer. Ihave never experienced the objection you mention at all. I never had any complaint made about shipments in cases, and I have shipped apples for three or four years in cases. ; Mr. Starr.—I would like to see the smaller package. We in Nova Scotia are accustomed to using barrels of the same size as the common fruit barrel. This is the standard our law requires. We have used half barrels, half the other size, to a con- siderable extent, but they are not received with favour for some reason or other. We have attempted to use the square cases. You cannot pack the boxes, and press them in and have them tight, and have them turn out in good condition. With half barrels there is no difficulty of that kind, but a very limited number of half barrels will do in London. Prof, Barnarp.—A very important matter is the barrels. I don’t fancy that the twenty-four gallon barrel is very much too large, I don’t think the difficulty arises from that; but if you notice the law says that they shall be as nigh cylindrical as possible. The barrels are always made of light material, and have no centre hoops, and sometimes accidents will occur while loading them on board the ship when some- thing will give way and the barrel willroll down. If the barrel is made strong with good hoops, so that the barrel always rolls on the hoops, there is very little reason fordamagesfromthem. Ifthey are packed five or six deep there is very little danger of their flattening on account of the weight on the bottom ones. I contend that it is our own fault if we allow coopers to make barrels with too large a bilge. They should be made as straight as possible, so straight that the barrel always rolls on the hoops, and noton the staves. Then we will hear little complaint of bruised or slack apples in the barrel. We did not have many to ship this year, but we did ship some, and I am proud to say they arrived in perfect order. We selected the barrels. We would not use a barrel with a big bilge, and we decided not to use a barrel at all which had a large bilge after that. Ifthe coopers don’t wish to make them strong enough we don’t want them. Let them keep their barrels. Rev. Canon Funrton,—There are one or two points that have been omitted by the gentleman who has spoken. One point is as to the non-keeping of the apple. The apple on the tree, and when it is taken off, is a live, breathing thing. Our grand- fathers used to put the apples in two-bushel barrels; but the greed of the consumers insisted on three bushels, and to have as large a bulge as possible. These apples are, very often packed on a warm day in the fall of the year. They are heated up by the sun and then put ina hot car. From that time forward they are rapidly matur- ing, and by the time they are taken off the vessel they have begun to decay. I must say of the Allan Line, that I have shipped as early as any man in this room, and Mr. Smith, of that line, years ago took great pains to see that there was coldstorage. I went to him two years ago and told him Iwas going to ship as an experiment an early apple, and wished to have a cool place provided. I shipped some of the Duchess apple, and they went home and were received in perfect order, and I was very well satisfied with the return. There was one point which Mr. Dempsey made about clipping the top of the apple. You can see, however, Mr. President, and understand that the stem being plucked out it allows the microbes to get in and begin the work of decay in the apple. If we could sterilize the apple and pack them in medium size packages there would be no trouble in taking them across the ocean. I have used a package—one of the first, I suppose, that was shipped—that held half a bushel. I packed them first in oat hulls, but the apples being of fine quality the flavour was affected. It requires a great deal of trouble—in fact, almost 2s much as Mr, Shep- herd’s package—to have them perfectly level and prevent bruises, It needs great care to get them in all right. Across the pond they say: “We much prefer to have a barrel;” but I got very nearly as much for halfa barrel as they would have given me for a barrel, Iam satisfied that all this difficulty would not occur if proper care were taken in putting the apple into the barrel. There is one other point I wish to speak of, although not personally interested, and that is the shipment of butter, I must say that when I was at the Paris Exhibition I got one of the creamery men to send me over twelve packages, and out of the twelve there were three that were 37 broken. I feel perfectly satisfied that unless you get an air-tight package and one that is secure it will be a great detriment to the community. I have been appointed lately as Protestant chaplain at the penitentiary, and there is an ingenious man there—one of my students—whom I told I was coming here, and asked him to see if he could not invent some sort of package that would do for butter. I have here two boxes that it would be worth while for any shipper to look at. They could be made -of maple or some other suitable wood, aud are perfectly air-tight. This box is made without a single screw. He has made an estimate of the probable cost, and I do not think it would exceed the cost of the ordinary package. It can be made in shooks so as to fit, and if you cover the butter with a layer of paraftine paper it will be per- fectly air-tight. If we had as good a package as that for our apples I am satisfied that it would be a great blessing and benefit to the country. The Presrpent.—Considering all the facts that have been brought forward this evening, it appears to me we may reduce the requirements of the shipper to the following terms: First, there should be special freight trains provided that will give rapid transit and gather the cars from various stations along the route, and when the train reaches proper dimensions it will go straight through. In the next place, these cars should be provided with buffers. In the next place, lower rates, and then modifi- cations in the billsof lading. It strikes me these are all the points we can appreciate and reach a common understanding about. It also strikes me that it would be quite proper to have a committee, or any other body, appointed to take this matter in hand and make such representations in the name of this convention to the transporta- tion companies as may be necessary for the satisfaction of the shippers in these respects. It is desirable that something should come out of this discussion. We do not want to leave it where it began. I take leave to move a committee on transporta- tion, to report to-morrow. That committee will consist of Messrs. A. McD. Allan, R. W. Shepherd, jr., A. M. Smith and C. R H. Starr. The Convention then adjourned until the following morning. Tuurspay, 20th February. MornineG Szssron. The Convention assembled at 10 a.m. The Presipent.—We have received since last session a letter from the Grand Trunk Railway Company, from the traffic manager, with reference to the points that were raised. I will ask the Secretary to read that letter for the information of the meeting, and then, I think, we may refer it to the Committee on Transporta- tion for action. The Secretary read the letter, as follows :— “Granp TRuNK RaILway CoMPANY OF CANADA. ‘“Trarric MANAGER’sS OFFICE. “ MontreaL, February, 17th, 1890. “Dear Sir,—At a recent conference with Messrs. Penhallow and Shepherd, reference was made to the meeting of fruit growers proposed to be held at the City Hall, Ottawa, on 19th inst., and two following days. ‘“You are no doubt aware that as regards the more delicate and perishable des- criptions of fruit we are able, in connection with the Canadian Express Company, to give as satisfactory despatch as practicable by passenger trains. To accommodate the friit growers we have also organized fruit specials, to commence running so soon as the apple, &c., season sets in. These specials can be increased in number as the traffic requires and the necessary arrangements made to prevent delay in transit. We purpose this year to continue and, if needs be, extend the system, and 1 hope that the requirements of the case may thus be satisfactorily met. “There are considerations connected with the gathering and packing of fruit affecting its condition on arrival at destination with which the fruit growers can 38 alone deal; but speaking for the Grand Trunk, I may assure you that any reasonable transportation requirements will be met by the company, and when the time arrives for resuming this year’s operations we shall be happy to confer with representatives of the association, in view of meeting their wants, and making Montreal the port for fruit shipments. “Yours truly, “TL, J. SARGEANT, “ Trapfie Manager. “WW. W. Duntop; Secretary, City.” Mr. Bucke—In regard to shipping rates: We have heard a good deal about shipping to the old country but there is one point that has not been touched upon, and that is the shipping of fruits from Ontario to Manitoba. The Canadian Pacific Railway rates are so high that the people cannot ship from Ontario to Manitoba, and this is a question that should be ventilated by this meeting. , The Prestpent.—I think that is an important point, and 1 think the committee will keep that fact in mind. I understand they are to have a special conference with the transportation agents and the agents of the other companies, This matter will be discussed at that conference. We will refer that letter to the Committee on Transportation. Mr, L. Wootverton.—Would it not be well to express some appreciation of the kindness expressed to us in that letter—our appreciation of the efforts made by the Grand Trunk Railway Company in making arrangements for this special train. I move that a reply be made by the secretary, expressing our appreciation of the efforts being made to accomodate the fruit shippers. The Presrpent.—That might properly come in with the committee’s report. Mr. A. McD, Attan.—Would it not be in order to move now to add to that Com- mittee on Transportation? We only have four members on that committee. I think we should have more. Further, a desire has been expressed on the part of the steamship companies here to meet with that committee and discuss the whole sub- ject. I think it would be proper to ask the Chair to extend an invitation to all the representatives of the railway, steamship and express companies to meet with us. I think it is nothing but fair and right to all concerned that we should meet together and discuss the whole matter before we frame our report for the general meeting. I would suggest that the name of Mr. A. H. Pettit be added to the committee, and I suggest that some one else would name other gentlemen who would be serviceable from other districts. Several other gentlemen were numed, and the following added to the committee: Messrs. A. H. Pettit, W. L. Kew, A. G. Thorburn, Thomas Frankland. The Presipent.—In view of Mr. Allan’s suggestion, I will notify the representa- tives of the companies interested to meet with the committee for aconference. [may say just here that in the very short space of time that was allowed us to interview these various transportation companies before leaving Montreal there were one or two of the express companies notincluded, unfortunately, especially the Dominion Express Company. Now their representative is here, and I hope he will take this as a special invitation to represent his company at this conference between the committee and the transportation agents. Mr, Shepherd was on the committee—the interviewing com- mittee—in Montyreal. Mr. A. McD. Attan.—Some of the representatives of the various carrying com- panies, I understand, cannot make it convenient to be with us here this forenoon. We want the committee to meet and discuss the different points this forenoon. As it will take some time, I suggest that we proceed with work on the report in the meantime, and we can then meet the agents and go over the report. We would like to have the conference with the committee before the report is finally presented to the conference. (The suggestion was agreed to.) Mr. J. T. McBripz, Montreal, read the following paper on “Tue Export oF Winter AppLes—Prorits AND DRAwBacks”: 39 Regarding the profits and drawbacks in connection with the export of winter apples, allow me, as briefly as possible, to give you a few facts gained by fifteen years’ practical experience in British and foreign markets. “The most profitable apples for export are: King’s, Cranberry Pippins, Bald- win’s, Gravensteins, Bishop’s Pippins, Ribston Pippins,and Golden Russets. Occasion- ally Spies and Greenings make money abroad, but, as a rule. they sell for more money in Canada. All apples should be picked and culled with the greatest care. We are advancing in the department yearly, but still there is room for improvement. The more care in this respect the better name will our fine Canadian apples gain, and they are second to none, and the more profit will be obtainable for either local or foreign buyers. Cease to purchase fruit that has been carelessly culled before being eat Many a buyer.has ordered his men away from an orchard where the grower has carelessly picked his apples, and wisely so, for no packer can make first-class shipping stock with such fruit. Only No 1 standard sized barrels should ever be used. They ought to be kept perfectly clean and when packed should be head-lined and distinctly branded. A fancy package will command more money than one with which less care has been taken. It is better to mark our apples No. 1 and No. 2; I mean, use a different stencil. No.1 should be strictly choice apples; No. 2 ought to be good, clean, sound selected apples ; the balance should be dried, evaporated or made into cider, for all of which a market can be found. All shipping apples must be carefully faced, well shaken and lightly packed. A barrel that shows the least slackness on this side the Atlantic will make no money for the shipper on the other side, where they often make and sell as slack, what here would be considered tight and in firm order. Now, we have our fruit properly gathered and packed, the question is, where had we better sell. Our advice would be to sell to some one on this side of the water. When we require foreign fruit we are compelled to buy. So, if Europe wants our grains and fruit we would say come across, examine, buy, and we will ship and draw for amount, ailowing no claims whatever. Take your risks, as we are compelled to do when we purchase oranges, lemons, grapes, &c. When consigning, our apples as a rule are shipped io Liverpool, London, Glas- gow and Bristol. They generally go into a dealer’s hands, who hands the bill of lading to an auctioneer, by whom they are offered at first sale after being landed. The auction system is all right in itself, but the charges are far too high. Six- pence per barrel to the consignee, sixpence per barrel to the auctioneers, to which they add cartage, dock and labour dues, postage, bill stamps, cables, &c., &c., which together make another sixpence. So it costs generally 1s. 6d. to sell a barrel after it is landed, to which we would have to add 3s, 6d. to 4s. 6d. per barrel freight. Asarule, we have to pay more freight from Montreal than our neighbours have to do from New York, Boston or Philadelphia. Why is thisso? Some ofour worthy steamship friends will no doubt explain, but we hope soon to see a 2s. 6d. freight from Montreal to Liverpool. Another drawback in Britain is the law, which allows a buyer to refuse any number of barrels (out of any purchase in the sale room), which he calls slack. Almost any barrel can be made to give somewhat after the way they are piled on their docks, two and three high, on their ends; also, after a rainy night or heavy fog any barrel showing the slightest moisture is called damp and wet, and sells from 2s. to 10s. per barrel less than dry tight barrels, The Canadians who have made money by consigning apples can be easily counted; those who have lost money by the same practice, their name is legion. Our railway companies have done considerable for us by supplying better cars, in greater quantity, and granting through bills of lading; but still greater care could be taken in the loading and unloading. They should not be unloaded until the day the steamship company is ready to load, for frequently we have seen thousands of barrels on our wharves, some inside and often outside of the sheds, 1o be 40 wet, pilfered and generally disfigured, sometimes frozen, which, of course, rae heavy loss to the shippers. Our steamship companies could also assist shippers i making profits by more careful handling and judicious stowing, many a thousan barrels of apples have been ruined by being misplaced in a steamer. Wherever pos- sible, the steamers should be ventilated, and apples should have the coolest and driest compartment on the ship, because they require it; also, because they pay a first-class freight rate. We are not complaining of our steamers friends; they have ne greatly during past few years, and are still willing to do all in their power to tee e wants of our ever-growing trade; but we demand better positions, better ventilation and lower rates, and I believe we will secure them. There is a British law against American apples being shipped under Canadian marks and names, but last fall thousands of barrels of Michigan apples were shipped and sold as Canadian apples. This ought to be stopped. Some Maine apples, shipped this winter in the same manner, were detained in Liverpool, and thereby a loss made. Next season this ought to be looked after and prevented. Let all fruit be shipped and sold under true colours. If so our apples will command more money. ont Our friends in Nova Scotia have grand apples and unsurpassed facilities for shipping. We think if they used a more modern, better barrel their fine fruit would bring still higher prices. Their apples as a rule are shipped by local speculators and growers to London and Boston to be sold on commission. ; Regarding when to sell or ship apples, we would recommend, after a suc- cessful experience, sell as soon as apples are ready for shipment, or, if convenient, ship as soon as packed, and regularly. The first to market of all fruit makes most money, not the last. Then, if we wait until the close of navigation, and forward by Portland or Boston, there is great danger of frost. It is almost impossible to ship in winter without doing some damage to the apples. A frosted or heated apple will never make any money, either here or in other markets. Mr. L. Woonverton (Grimsby).—I would like to ask Mr, McBride where the change in the brand of apples was made? Mr. McBripz.—-Last year I brought in a great many apples from St. Louis and Michigan, in bond, and shipped them through to Montreal. A great many of the dealers, when the apples arrived at Montreal—between the unloading from the train and loading on to the vessel—would put on their own brands, and these apples were shipped on Canadian steamers as Canadian apples. These apples were not as good — as ours, and when it got to be known over there what had been done, it did usa great deal of harm. ‘The apples went to Edinburgh and sold as Canadian apples, and the sellers had to take them back, because they could not prove that they were Canadian apples. I think that this is a practice which should be stopped, and could be stopped. I am bound to say that seven-eighths of the Montreal men will not stoop to this kind of thing. Mr. R. W. Starr (Cornwallis, N.8.)—Did you handle any Nova Scotia apples last year? Mr. McBrrpr.—I was in your part of the country last fall.and tried to see you; I went there to place an order for 25,000 barrels of your apples, but my order said they must be put up in Canadian barrels, which you could not get made in time. Our people in Liverpool would not take your apples in the Nova Scotia barrels. Your barrels are good and strong, and will do very well, but they are not presentable. Rey. Canon Futton.—The most important thing that has come before this con- vention, so far, is what Mr. McBride has just stated in reference to the propriety of having some distinction made between the Canadian and the American apple. We are troubled here by the importation, in the spring of the year, of the Missouri and Tennessee apple, which are really not fit for human food. They have the same names as our own apples; they are used as quotations, and are on our market from the beginning to the end of the season. If we are to have any credit for our apples, as we have for our cheese, these importations of American apples, which are shipped vid the St. Lawrence route, should be branded by the officers of the Canadian Customs as they pass through. 41 Mr. Wootverton.—I think we should have a Committee on Legislation. As these points come up this committee would be able to take them into consideration and suggest to us the best method for dealing with them. The sooner we have such a committee appointed the better. I would move that such committee be appointed. The PresipEnt.—Would you nominate such a committee, Mr. Woolverton? . Think over some names, and we will then put the motion to the meeting later on. Mr. Broprz.—In connection with the packing of apples, I would suggest that all the apples should be branded with the packers’ names. Our millers have brands for their special grades of flour, which is sold according to those brands, and why should not our apple packers have bra:ds established, so as to enable them to get up a reputation for their apples? Rev. Canon Furton.—The only trouble with that would be that some of the barrels would be re-packed with apples that did not come from the particular orchard. The only way to obviate such a difficulty would be to put a card at the bottom of each barrel, inside the barrel. Mr, A. McD. Attan.—l have listened to Mr. McBride’s paper with a good deal of pleasure. The points he makes are most excellent. ‘They are golden points, which should be remembered by all. His advice regarding the packageis good. In my opinion we should be most particular about the package, and have it neat, tidy and clean, and presentable in the market. Such a package means money on the fruit. The point he raises about the American apples passing through Canada and going forward to British ports as Canadian apples is one that we have had a good deal of controversy on. It is a most important point indeed. I do not know whether there are any of our American friends present, but we are always willing to meet them, and we find them very fair in discussion on this point. We do claim, and I think fairly and rightly, that we have, within the limits of this Dominion, in the different sections of the country, taking all things into consideration, the finest apples in the world. It is unfair to us, then, to allow American apples of inferior quality to pass through here and be re-branded at Montreal as Canadian apples and shipped to England as such. I have known Canadian dealers who have purchased apples in Michigan, and these apples have gone forward as Canadian apples. This is a very serious injury to this country. Perhaps no one here would be able to explain scien- tifically why it is that Michigan apples are not as good as ours, but the fact remains all the same that they are not. They are different in grain. They grow them beauti- fully, they are fine-looking, probably to look at them they seem the best apple. They appear hardy and fine apples when picked, and in all external points may be equal to and sometimes excel ours, but when it comes to quality and flavour they are away behind us. It is certainly time, as Mr. Woolverton states, that this point of false branding was looked into, aud if a Legislative Committee could be formed we might bring the matter to the notice of Parliament, so that it could be made law, that in passing through the Customs, or in some other way, these fruits could be branded, so as not to go forward to British ports as anything else but what they are. It is no credit to us to have them known as Canadian apples; but, on the contrary, it works us positive injury. Mr. C. R. H. Starr, Secretary Nova Scotia Fruit Grower’s Association.—In this connection I may say that we have reason to believe that Nova Scotia apples have been shipped to New York and re-shipped from there as American apples. That is putting the boot on the other foot. Butinregard to re-branding American fruit as Canadian —if they wish to take credit for our apples as their own, to do us injury thereby, it is not a very desirable state of affairs; but I do not know that we can control this in any way. Mr, B. Srarrart, Annapolis, N.S.—I was in London three years ago, and I saw there Nova Scotia Golden Russets, shipped from Annapolis County to London in barrels, re-packed and put into boxes in a fruit shop, and branded as French apples. They have an apple in France which closely resembles our Golden Russet. Whether it has the same points or not I do not know; it is the same in shape, colour and flavour, and it is apparently the same. These apples are shipped largely from France 42 : ; : d to England. They are put up in boxes, 56 apples in a box. The boxes are arrange in ied layers, is lower lever consisting of four rows, with 7 apples in eke making 28 apples in the lower layer, and the upper layer is the same. These app es are exactly alike in shape, size, colour, and everything. You may pick Wot sie apples and you could not tell one from another apart. Fifty-six apples just fi bad 18 box. Seven apples go into it lengthways, and I have seen our apples re-packed In these boxes as French apples. Mr. McEway.—In regard to the subject of branding barrels, I do not know that we could decide upon any plan to prevent the re-branding of American apples, I think that question should properly come under the consideration of the Committee on Transportation. I think the committee consulting together and studying the matter seriously would probably recommend some plan to overcome the difficulty. I merely make that as a suggestion, so that the Committee could take it into con- sideration as one of their subjects. Mr. Broptz.—Why should not we have an apple inspector, as well as a flour inspector, in our shipping ports? The Prestprnt.—I may say that when the committee set about arranging for the work of this convention, we felt that we ought to have some expression of opinion, not only from our own exporters, but from some one who handled our apples on the other side of the water. The Secretary was therefore instructed to com- municate with some of the large importers in England to get their views and opinions. As a result of that, we have the opinion of a large firm of importers, Messrs. Wood, Ormerod & Co., Edinburgh. The paper will be read by the secretary. Mr. Duytop, Secretary, then read the following paper on ‘CAPPLES FOR EXPORT. “In what follows we address growers only, believing that there need be no medium between them and the distributor to the retail trade. “We would urge on growers to select one or more reliable firms (according to the quantity of fruit exported) who are in contact with the retailers, and to send regularly to said firm, or firms, all the season through. The advantages are, that such consignments are not left to the mercy of the auctioneer (sometimes competing auctioneers), the market gluts are largely avoided, and, where growers pack practi- cally the same each consignment, the brand becomes known within circles where (always supposing the fruit merits it) a demand for it, more or less steady, is created, and a good standing price secured. “The grower is also brought into immediate contact with the distributor of his goods, and is therefore sure to be advised of any defect therein, when a remedy can be applied and the defect guarded against in future. “We think there are three headings under which we may arrange the few remarks we have to offer, viz.: Quality, Packing and Varieties. And here permit us to remark that pressure on our time forbids any elaborate production and neces- sitates our confining ourselves to a few practical suggestions. “ Quality.—Whatever may be his wishes, the grower knows right well that he cannot grow fruit to order. Even with his best efforts to produce fine fruit he finds that each season brings him a proportion which does not fall under that heading. This brings in the question— What shall I ship, and where ? “The market prospects at home and abroad, as far as he can ascertain them, are before him, and many considerations must influence his decision. “In shipping to Britain, however, the consideration of freight and charges, competition and the small attention paid to second-rate goods, should lead growers to be wary of shipping hither that class of apples. “From all our experience, during the last eighteen years, we can with con- fidence say: If you wish to secure good results, ship only good, reliable fruit, and where chotce can be added, so much the better. 43 “ Under this heading we may include ‘Condition ’—that is, condition on arrival at destination, which, of course, is due to condition on leaving and packing (the latter we shall speak of later). This is all-important. The choicest fruit. out of condition, is of small value, “Tt is a point, moreover, on which few suggestions of value can be given— what will and what will not stand the journey, etc., being matters which experience only can teach, coupled with careful observation. “ Here again direct communication from the distributor would be a great gain. “We may remark, however, that neither very green fruit nor fruit almost ripe —that is just ripe—should be packed. “ The former meets a bad market because of its appearance; the latter is almost sure to be bruised and ‘chippy,’ and also sells at a low price. “ We now come to ‘ Packing.’ “ Tt is not likely that the ‘barrel’ can be improved upon as a package, though the barrel itself may. “ We hear of a ventilated barrel recently invented in America, which, if all said of it is borne out in practical experience, bids-fair to supercede the present close one. “ There is only one thing perhaps which may prove an objection. We refer, however, to its peculiar feature, fearing that the free passage of the air through it may cause shrivelling of its contents when kept in it for any lengthy time, and as this point is more for the retailer to decide it would not show till, say, the next season, so that growers may find it useful not to ship all their early consignments in this new package—should it come into use—until they are satisfied as to this possible objection. Honesty of packing, that is, ‘the same quality thrcughout,’ cannot be too strongly urged. The grower who persistently—yea, occasionally— transgresses this rule, will have cause to repent his folly. We observed a strong case in point only last month. The apples of a well known shipper were badly topped.