University of California • Berkeley Regional Oral History Office University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California California Horticulture Oral History Series Toichi Domoto A JAPANESE -AMERICAN NURSERYMAN'S LIFE IN CALIFORNIA: FLORICULTURE AND FAMILY, 1883-1992 With Introductions by Julius Nuccio and Ernest Wertheim Interviews Conducted by Suzanne B. Riess in 1992 Copyright • 1993 by The Regents of the University of California Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well -placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the Nation. Oral history is a modern research technique involving an interviewee and an informed interviewer in spontaneous conversation. The taped record is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The resulting manuscript is typed in final form, indexed, bound with photographs and illustrative materials, and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Toichi Domoto dated November 20, 1992. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, 486 Library, University of California, Berkeley 94720, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. The legal agreement with Toichi Domoto requires that he be notified of the request and allowed thirty days in which to respond. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Toichi Domoto, "A Japanese -American Nurseryman's Life in California: Floriculture and Family, 1883-1992," an oral history conducted in 1992 by Suzanne B. Riess, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 1993. Copy no. I Toichi Domoto, 1992 Photograph by Suzanne B. Riess Cataloguing information DOMOTO, Toichi (b. 1902) Floriculturist A Japanese -American Nurseryman's Life in California: Floriculture and Family. 1883-1992. 1993, xiii, 360 pp. Domoto family: members, history, traditions; Domoto Bros. Nursery, imports, quarantine, incorporation; Toichi Domoto 's childhood, education at Stanford and University of Illinois; Domoto 's Nursery in Hayward since 1927: land and location, financing, camellia business, customers; Japanese imports in garden shows, "backyard gardeners," southern California nursery business, Domoto patents, other growers; membership in California Association of Nurserymen, California Horticultural Society; marriage, Japanese -American relocation period, and work in Illinois; discussion of work with bonsai, tree peonies, and other plant materials. Appended Domoto Family tree; 1925 college report; 1981 interview on Lurline Roth and Filoli; 1987 interview on Blake Garden, Anita Blake and Mabel Symmes. Introductions by Julius Nuccio, Nuccio's Nursery, Altadena, California; and Ernest Wertheim, ASLA, Wertheim, Van der Ploeg & Klenmeyer, San Francisco. Interviewed 1992 by Suzanne B. Riess for the California Horticulture Oral History Series. The Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley. Donors to the Toichi Domoto Oral History The Regional Oral History Office, on behalf of future researchers, wishes to thank the following organizations and persons whose contributions made possible this oral history of Toichi Domoto. Mai K. Arbegast Gerda Isenberg S.D. Bechtel, Jr. Foundation Paul Doty California Assn of Nurserymen, Peninsula Chapter Julius Nuccio Carla Reiter Pete and Amy Sugavara Warren Roberts Feyerabend & Madden, Landscape Architects Brian Napolitan California Horticultural Society Friends of Filoli Robert and Evelyn Ratcliff Daniel Woodward Adele and Lewis Lawyer Paul and Norma Uenaka Frank Ogawa California Association of Nurserymen California Association of Nurserymen, Central Chapter Western Horticultural Society TABLE OF CONTENTS --Toichi Domoto INTRODUCTION- -by Julius Nuccio i INTRODUCTION- -by Ernest Wertheim iv INTERVIEW HISTORY- -by Suzanne Riess Ix BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION xiii I FAMILY AND CHILDHOOD 1 II THE NURSERY BUSINESS, DOMOTO BROTHERS, INC. 5 Quarantine 37 5 Tom Domoto 's Start in San Francisco 6 Methods of Shipping, Fumigation 9 Kid Glove Oranges 10 The New Ranch, Greenhouses 11 Ikebana, and Japanese Culture 13 Employees at the New Ranch 14 III TOICHI DOMOTO 16 Learning Kan-ji 16 Early Schooling 17 Career Hopes, and Reality, Ted Sakai 18 Mechanical Solutions, Rose Growing 19 Fertilizer Mix 21 Environmental Cleanup 22 Third Generation 24 Story of the Interpreter 26 Generation Gap 27 Early Childhood Memories of the Nursery 28 Grammar School 30 Embarrassing Moments 31 Nicotine Use in the Nursery 34 Discrimination in Plant Inspection 35 Kurume Azaleas 37 IV BONSAI, AND ROSES AND BEETLES 40 V JAPANESE GARDENS, FAMILY, AND HOME 58 Rock Gardens , Kanej i Domoto 58 Japanese Gardens, Expositions 62 The Fair, 1915, and the Cousins 62 Home Training, Religion, Social Groups 64 Mother's Life, and Traditions 66 The House at New Ranch 67 VI NURSERY BUSINESS, CONTINUED 69 Azaleas 69 Camellia Trees 71 Plant Enthusiasms, and Determinants 72 More on Azaleas 75 Tom Domoto's 1917 Trip to Japan 76 Typhoid Fever and Other Illnesses 78 VII ANTI- ALIENISM 82 Incorporation 82 Names 83 Education at Stanford 85 Testing the Stanford-Binet Test 86 Asian Students at Stanford 87 Transferring to the University of Illinois 88 Floriculture Course 90 Schramm's Nursery, and Feeling Alien 92 Getting Nursery Business Experience 94 New Growing Methods 95 "Passport" to Home, Spring 1926 97 Acacias in Bloom 98 VIII TOICHI DOMOTO'S NURSERY 100 Domoto Bros., Inc. Closes 100 The Depression Era; Good Neighbors 101 Family Move to Hayward 103 Joining Nurserymens' Associations 105 Choice of Location in Hayward; Water, Manure 107 Financing and Refinancing 109 Sorensen Family 110 "Backyard Gardeners" 111 The Camellia Era 113 Camellia Corsages 114 A Working Day; Peter Milan 115 Father and Son 116 Nursery Equipment, Forging, Sharpening 117 Clearing the Land, Workers 118 The Whitman Road Area 120 WPA, Mills College, Deodar Cedars 121 On Not Visiting Gardens 123 Jobbers: W. B. Clarke 125 IX GARDEN SHOWS, JAPANESE PLANT MATERIALS POPULARIZED 127 Location, Logistics, Funding 127 Some Nurseryman Contemporaries 129 Japanese Gardens Popularized 130 Sunset Magazine 133 More on Backyard Gardeners; Tin Cans 136 Nursery Business, Northern and Southern California 138 Flowering Quince, Forced Acacias 139 Patents, Camellias 141 Boyce Thompson Institute, and Keeping Current in the Profession 143 Gerberas, and Some Thoughts on Changing Lifestyles 145 The "Experts," and the Case of the Camellia Petal Blight 147 X CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF NURSERYMEN 150 Some Thoughts on Trust 150 Association Opens Membership, 1929 151 Activities 153 Central California Association 154 Nakashima Nursery 155 The Social Side 156 American Association of Nurserymen 157 Italian Families, and Others, in Cut Flower Business 157 Bill Schmidt 159 Julius Nuccio 160 Flying Around 162 Geneva's Nursery with Dick Plath 164 Mixed Pots 165 More on the Social Side; Drinking 166 XI RELOCATION 168 Pearl Harbor 168 Marriage to Alice Okamoto 169 Move to Livingston, California; Settling the Business 172 True Friends 173 Calling Names 177 Livingston, Assembly Center 178 Family Break-up 179 Father's Death 182 More on Schramm's Nursery 184 XII TREE PEONIES 187 XIII CALIFORNIA HORTICULTURAL SOCIETY 203 Meetings 203 Victor Reiter 204 Other Members 205 About "Forgetting Race or Color" 207 W.B. Clarke, Lilacs 208 The Bonsai Pace of Life 209 XIV DOMOTO FAMILY 211 Japanese Names 211 Who's Who, Issei 213 Who's Who, Nisei 215 Good Family Life 218 XV OTHER GROWERS 220 Japanese Families 220 Flower Market, Specialization and Standardization 222 Growers and Grower Groups 224 Southern California Nurseries 225 Exclusives? 226 Paul Doty, George Budgen, Herman Sandkuhle 227 Pot Plant Growers 229 Agriculture Commissioners, Inspectors 230 Saratoga Horticultural Foundation 231 Albert Wilson, Walter Hoff 233 XVI VALUES 236 Thoughts on "Going on My Own" 236 Plant Talk: Daphne Odora 238 JACL 241 More on Land Law and Incorporation Issues 241 Family Values, Home Training 243 Three Generations at Stanford; Changing Times 246 TAPE GUIDE 250 APPENDICES 252 A. The Domoto Family. A family tree. 253 B. "Floricultural Inspection Trip," St. Louis, March 1925, by Toichi Domoto. 260 C. "Friends of Mine," University of Illinois Memory Book, 1926. 275 D. History of the California Spring Garden Show, from catalogue of the Eleventh Annual California Spring Garden Show, 1940. 278 E. "Toichi Domoto, Nurseryman," by William E. Schmidt, California Horticultural Journal. July 1969. 281 F. "An Interview with Toichi Domoto," conducted by Suzanne Riess in 1981 for Matson and Roth Family History: A Love of Ships. Horses, and Gardens. Regional Oral History Office, 1982. 285 G. "Miss Blake and Miss Symmes, Horticulturists," an interview with Toichi Domoto conducted by Suzanne Riess in 1987 for Blake Estate Oral History Project. 1988. 324 H. Domoto plant accessions at Filoli. 346 INDEX 356 INTRODUCTION- -by Julius Nuccio The privilege and honor to introduce Mr. Toichi Domoto is a task I thought would be quite simple. After all, I've known him most of my life, as a fellow nurseryman, as a plantsman, as a great friend, and as a competitor. Although competitor is not the proper word for Toichi because he was always as contributor, never a competitor. The fact that Toichi has always been the same steady, quiet, humble person, but with strong opinions of plant evaluation, and never controversial, is what makes this a difficult introduction. I have nothing but good to say about him. He brought to the nursery industry integrity and a continued search for new and better varieties with honest evaluations. I first met Toichi in the late 1930s. I had experienced several years of working in a full-line nursery and soon found myself hooked on the two greatest flowering shrubs on the earth, the camellia and the azalea. Camellia popularity was just coming in to a new, lively market with many interested gardeners and camellia hobbyists, all searching for new and better varieties. The availability of varieties was quite limited; hence, my first trip to Hayward, California and business with Toichi Domoto. At that time he was the leader in available stock as well as varieties and, of course, knowledge of both the camellia and azalea. This man was open, with no secrets, and shared his knowledge and made many varieties available. I couldn't believe his sincerity, and the humility that has been his trait all the many years of our friendship. The demand for camellias of new and better varieties grew so rapidly that it created thirty or more camellia specialty nurseries in the southern California area alone, and many throughout the entire state. The race was truly on, and Toichi was ready with stock and an established nursery. However, along came Pearl Harbor --that's right, he was interned. I couldn't believe it! These were very difficult years for Americans of Japanese descent, especially those with established businesses such as Toichi. His lost business opportunities because of the war were truly tragic. Toichi never wavered, even though being interned only proved to be half the battle. Upon his return at war's end he found that many in the ii industry continued to discriminate against the Japanese Americans, hoping to keep them out of competition. This, too, was very hard to believe. It was in these early years after the war that I realized what a great and sincere friend this man was. We, at Nuccio's, were able to get back into the camellia world, but not so for Toichi. Toichi called me one day in 1948. In order to get back in the race he wanted to know if we would supply him with some of the newer varieties . Of course , our answer was that we would be more than happy to. Upon completion of the order he said that his truck would pick up the plants at 6 a.m. This was fine, but then I wondered why such an early hour. Toichi gave us several such orders, and each time the truck arrived at 6 a.m. for pick-up. Finally, I asked him why the early pick-up. His reply was that he didn't want anyone to see a Japanese in our nursery for fear of hurting our business. This respect and consideration for others was always a trait of Toichi. Needless to say, this man was soon back in the competition, and contributing to the world of camellias new varieties such as Ecclefield, Destiny, Scented Gem, and Shiro Chan, to name a few. Shiro Chan was and is, without a doubt, one of the finest mutations ever developed. His testing of this camellia and preparation for distribution was truly outstanding. Along with his own introductions, Toichi 's distribution and confidence in the sasanqua camellia must be told. He was one of the first to predict that some day the gardeners of America would benefit from the great fall color and versatility of this camellia species. It has taken years, but today the sasanqua is accepted as one of our finest flowering evergreen shrubs. The varieties that Toichi valued highly many years ago are still the most popular today. To name a few: Hana Jiman, Hiryu, Momozono Nishiki, Narumigata, Nodami Ushiro, Setsugekka, Shinonome, Shishi Gashira, Show no Sakae, White Doves, and Yae Arare. It should be obvious that our relationship grew well beyond fellow nurserymen and good friends. We became interested in each other's families and their futures. At each one of our meetings over the years, regardless of business, the conversation always was, "How are the kids?" This is where Toichi 's life took another turn: his children chose different roads and are doing very well. Mine stayed to carry on the nursery business. ill A nursery that produces and introduces new varieties should be family- oriented to be successful, and Toichi, with all his wisdom and knowledge, knew this. He realized that if he sold the nursery the Domoto tradition would no longer be and he would certainly not be happy away from what he has loved all his life. Hence, his decision to phase out his stock to a comfortable size that he could be relaxed in. In doing so he has given the young people at Nuccio's all of his selected seedlings for them to evaluate and market. In the early years of his phasing-out program, the 1970s, he sent us two fine selected seedlings. One was a hybrid cuspidate, and the other a sasanqua, Shishi Gashira seedling. In our testing it was quite obvious that both would be great new varieties and should be named and marketed. I called Toichi and told him that he had two fine camellias and that he should name them. I suggested to him that the boys at the nursery felt that his name would be perfect for either one, as they both represented excellent qualities that he always strived for. His answer was firm: he did not want his name used, and to tell the boys that whatever name they decided on, other than his, would be fine. The cuspidata hybrid was named Spring Festival, and the sasanqua, Dwarf Shishi. Both have been marketed and have won acclaim all over the camellia world. They represent what Toichi worked for, excellent landscape plants for the gardens . At this time many of Toichi 's seedlings are being propagated for future introductions. His nursery has phased down considerably, but not the man. His interests are still high for the new varieties. Recently we received another group of his seedlings for testing, and know from his track record that they will all have merit. Hopefully I have conveyed to the reader my feelings of respect and admiration for Toichi Domoto, and his contribution to the horticultural and nursery industries. Julius Nuccio Nuccio's Nurseries January 9, 1993 Altadena, California iv INTRODUCTION --by Ernest Wertheim It has been fifty- four years to the month that I was invited to attend my first meeting of the California Horticultural Society. I had arrived in San Francisco from Berlin two weeks earlier, via bus from Philadelphia- -the Job as a landscape architect I was offered at Swarthmore College would not materialize until spring and I could not afford to wait- -and I had just been employed on the Atherton estate of Mrs. Sigmund Stern as "one of the three Mexicans to spade the estate." My first meeting of the California Horticultural Society is as fresh in my mind as if it were yesterday: members were coming in, some bringing beautiful specimens from their gardens or nurseries. Everything was displayed in containers with proper botanical names and the names of the exhibitors. Following a lecture there was an intermission during which I was introduced to persons such as Sydney Mitchell, the first president of Cal Hort, Victor Reiter, W. B. Clarke, William Schmidt, Bob Sachs--a postal service employee whose interest was primroses --and many other wonderful people . The second part of the evening was devoted to a discussion of selected items from the large display brought in by members. That was when I first saw Toichi Domoto, who discussed the new flowering quince hybrids, the most memorable of which was 'Sunset'. Toichi was reserved in his presentation, but very clear about the information he gave to the members. Although we did not meet in person during that meeting, my interest in Toichi was sparked. During subsequent Cal Hort meetings we did speak to one another, and I found that not only was Toichi a wonderful person, but also an excellent horticulturist, a very good listener, and a person who only spoke out when he really knew what he was talking about. The highlights of my life in 1939, 1940, and 1941 were attending meetings of the Cal Hort Society where I could listen to experts share their knowledge, and Toichi was one of those people who made it most worthwhile to attend the meetings . During the first year of our acquaintance my only transportation was a bicycle, so it wasn't until I had a car of my own that I could finally go to Hayward on a regular basis to visit Toichi and see his plants. After establishing my own office of landscape architecture I became a regular customer of his. In the years prior to the war there weren't many landscape architects in northern California; it was just the end of the Depression, and landscape architecture was not known to the average homeowner, nor was transportation what it is today. Few people, including landscape architects, were aware of the plant material Toichi was introducing to California, and the plants and specimens available in his nursery. December 7, 1941 changed the lives of many Americans, including Toichi. My life as a landscape architect came to an abrupt halt when I was inducted into the U.S. Army, where I served for four years as an intelligence officer under General MacArthur. The Japanese became our enemies, and it was natural for servicemen to develop a hatred and fear of the enemy. When I returned to my wife in San Francisco at the end of the war I harbored this anti-Japanese feeling, although I had been brought up to see people as individuals and not group them together. Not long after my return, and the re -establishment of my landscape architectural practice, I received a call from Toichi, who asked if I would assist him with the design of the landscape for the First Congregational Church in Hayward. I was most impressed that this man who, with so many other Japanes,. Americans, had been so mistreated during the war years, had the heart to forgive and offer his services to his church . I did assist Toichi, and working with him gave me the opportunity to re -evaluate my experiences in the Southwest Pacific; I soon recognized that the feelings I had while serving in the army needed to be forgotten- -they didn't belong on the shores of the United States. I am grateful to Toichi for providing me with the opportunity to refresh my feelings, and it was a great pleasure to work with him on the church landscape design. Toichi and I both served on the board of directors of the California Horticultural Society for many years. In 1957 Toichi was elected president. I served as his vice president, and during that year we worked very closely together and developed a lasting friendship. Toichi initiated informal gatherings after each meeting, which were originally held in my home. We invited old-timers, new members, and the speaker of the evening, and my wife served coffee, tea, and wonderful pastry- -those were the years when we didn't know about cholesterol, calories, and fat. During those gatherings everyone became better acquainted, and a great bond developed. Although Toichi had a long drive home to Hayward, he always came to the gatherings and helped to make the evening an unforgettable experience for all. There was another personality, Eric Walther, director of the Strybing Arboretum, who at times came to our evening gatherings. Mr. Walther was a walking encyclopedia, and Toichi, Roy Hudson, director of vi Golden Gate Park, and San Francisco nurseryman Victor Reiter would enter into great discussions on new introductions, on how to propagate, and on how to use such plants in gardens and parks. Although Roy, Eric, and Victor were San Francisco residents, Toichi hailed from Hayward where there were very different climatic conditions. Perhaps because of his location, Toichi was much more tuned to the climate of the total Bay Area; he always had good information on whether a plant would survive the heat of Walnut Creek or San Jose, or the cold of Lafayette or San Rafael, or the wind in Point Reyes or Half Moon Bay. The California Horticultural Society used to have an exhibit in the Oakland Spring Garden Show and Toichi generously contributed specimen plants. I can recall one evening, the night before the grand opening, when we were short of help due to the illness of some committee members, and there came Toichi, on very short notice, to work with us a good part of the night setting up the exhibit. Toichi introduced many varieties of Acer palmatum. which I regularly used in my landscape designs. Because most Acer palmatums would not tolerate the heat or wind in places like Walnut Creek or San Rafael, he specifically grew multi- trunk Acer truncatums for me. A. truncatum. which resembles an A. palmatum. grows well in places like Sacramento and Chico and will take the heat and wind, but it becomes a large tree. By pruning the A. truncatums at an early stage to create multi- trunks , Toichi made it possible to keep the tree to a height of about ten feet, and a wonderful sculptural effect could be created when the inside was opened to view by additional proper pruning. Toichi had many sources throughout the world, particularly in Japan, and he continuously imported plants. One such plant was a Viburnum japonicum. However, in other California nurseries a different Viburnum was sold under this same name. For ease of our identification Toichi and I called his V. japonicum var. 'Domoto' . Toichi 's viburnum had a lovely leathery, deep green foliage and fragrant white blossoms, while the other had shiny light green leaves. To clear up the confusion, botanist Dr. Elizabeth McClintock made a study of viburnums and concluded that Toichi 's Viburnum was V. japonicum. while the others on the market were mislabeled. For the annual dinners of the California Horticultural Society, Toichi would bring many cut camellias to be used to decorate the many tables. It was Toichi who introduced us to Camellia reticulata. and the first hybrids that entered the market. I learned from Toichi how to grow his gerbera hybrids successfully in the garden, and which tree peony to use as a specimen plant. He also introduced me to Azalea 'Snowbird', a vigorous white azalea that in my experience always blooms in April at the same time as Azalea 'Ward's vii Ruby' . The lower A. 'Ward's Ruby' . which is red, looks very effective with A. 'Snowbird' used as a background. At one time Toichi was asked by Mrs . Roth to help her with a flower show at her estate, Filolt. He asked me to assist him, and we visited Mrs. Roth several times --what a lovely lady, and so well versed in art and horticulture! As a result of these visits, Toichi and I felt there was a real need to preserve the Filoli estate for future generations. Ue were the first persons to openly discuss the subject with Mrs. Roth. There were discussions about establishing a southern branch of the Strybing Arboretum and several other ideas. The final result was that the gardens have become a part of the National Trust. Credit for initiating the idea to preserve the beautiful gardens must go to Toichi Domoto. Obviously others did a lot of work, but Toichi was responsible for the basic concept and for first approaching Mrs. Roth many years ago. In the late fifties my office became known for designing garden centers, and Toichi approached my partner and me to ask if we could assist him with the creation of an enclosed sales area for bonsai plants, pots, and accessories. The time spent planning his rather small facility was precious. It was a real pleasure to work with Toichi; he listened to our proposals, carefully evaluated them, and then introduced his own thoughts in a kind but precise manner. In 1962 the California Horticultural Society recognized the many contributions made by Toichi and awarded him their annual award. In the July 1962 Cal Hort Journal Victor Reiter wrote an article covering the award titled "A Tribute to Toichi Domoto." Another article was written in the July 1969 Cal Hort Journal by William Schmidt, "Toichi Domoto, Nurseryman, Over Sixty Years Experience with Flowers." These are only a few of the recognitions that Toichi has received, and I'm sure that there are many more laurels he could be given for his generosity in sharing his experience and knowledge, and his kindness. During the eighties it became difficult for Toichi to attend California Horticultural Society meetings, and I suddenly realized that the younger generation was missing out in not knowing this fine man. I approached Tom Bass, at that time the president of Cal Hort, and suggested that we have a field trip to the Domoto Nursery and call it A Visit with Toichi. We then drove to Hayward to propose our idea to Toichi, who agreed to let members of Cal Hort visit him on a Saturday. What a wonderful visit we had that day! We all brought our brown-bag lunches, the older members had a chance to see him again, and the younger members had the opportunity to meet and talk with the man who had been in horticulture for over seventy years. There are many past experiences that I have shared with this wonderful man during the past fifty- three years, most recently our chat viii in December 1992 when we reminisced about past times. I would like to take this moment to say how privileged I feel to be asked to write this introduction, and I hope I will see Toichi continuing to enjoy his work with plants, particularly bonsai, for many years to come. Ernest Wertheim, ASLA Uertheim, Van der Ploeg & Klemeyer February 22, 1992 San Francisco, California ix INTERVIEW HISTORY- -by Suzanne Riess The California Association of Nurserymen in 1970 honored Toichi Domoto with their Pacific Coast Nurseryman Award, the highest recognition given for an individual's contribution to horticulture and the nursery industry. He was the first nurseryman of Japanese descent to be so honored in the twenty- two year history of the distinguished award. Owner of Domoto' s Nursery, a combination retail and production nursery that provided plants for many of the area's most illustrious gardens, Toichi Domoto had achieved fame for his introduction of tree peonies, camellias, gerberas, fuchsias, trailing azaleas, and many other plant varieties. He was active in his profession, a past-president of the California Horticultural Society, and winner as well of that group's highest award. The Domoto name in the nursery business, starting with Mr. Domoto' s father, Kanetaro Domoto, has for over one hundred years been associated with excellent plant introductions, selected and hybridized and made available to a grateful trade. Today at age ninety-one Toichi Domoto lives quietly on the nursery land that he purchased in Hayward, California in 1927 when he was a twenty-five year old, newly out of college and going into business for himself. Though the gates to the Domoto Nursery still swing open at 9 a.m. for the occasional determined customer, and welcome visitor, Mr. Domoto has been retired from business for many years. His day now is organized around supervising a last few employees, studying and tending his bonsai collection, reflecting on the news of the world, sharing what he knows with the next generations, and serving as a constant lodestar for family and friends. Toichi Domoto was born in Oakland, California in 1902, the first son of Kanetaro Domoto, who emigrated to this country in 1882. He grew up, one of thirteen children born to Teru Morita Domoto, in an Oakland that would be unrecognizable to residents now, known by district names vanished into history. Domoto Brothers greenhouses spread over forty-eight acres in the Fitchburg district. The nursery had a fine reputation, and a name as "Domoto College" because of the horticultural education and experience and start in life it gave to sons of Japanese and Japanese -American families. Toichi 's father was known in the business as "Tom" Domoto, typical of the practice at that time of "simplifying" Japanese names by changing them. Young Toichi grew up in the family nursery, very aware of and involved in his surroundings- -his first education. His formal education was inaugurated in Oakland schools that served a remarkably heterogeneous population. For this Issei son, school was a chance to excel, and a place to shape a sense of himself. He felt different and separate, isolated sometimes, called names sometimes, but he was never diminished. He entered Stanford University in 1921 where he enjoyed life in the Japanese student house on campus, took a general course, manned the rooting section at football games, and was consummately collegiate. Then in 1923 Toichi Domoto transferred from Stanford to the University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana. The floriculture program at Illinois was one of the best, and it was a logical change. Toichi needed to get training in a field where work would be possible, and mechanical engineering, his first choice, was unlikely to offer promising jobs to a Japanese American. At Illinois he joined the Cosmopolitan Club, and while those associations did not prepare him for the experiences of prejudice that were ahead, the group gave him freedom to grow, more good college years to enjoy, and more memories of banquets and football games and rallies and collegiate traditions. The new graduate came home from Illinois in February 1926 after a train tour to the East Coast where he posed in front of Niagara Falls. That was to be the last time he would be so far from home. Back in California, Toichi bought twenty-six acres in Hayward and opened his nursery business, first specializing in camellias. He soon was working with tree peonies, and in a photograph in the oral history he is shown standing proudly in his blooming fields. This was the 1930s, and while the business was a success, new demands were being made of Toichi. In the oral history he explains his responsibility to his family, undertaking that each sibling should have the opportunity for a good education. The burden of that financial responsibility, discriminatory land laws, the Great Depression and Domoto Brothers foreclosure, and in 1941 the shock of the relocation of American citizens of Japanese ancestry, followed in what seems, looking back, to be rapid succession. Toichi Domoto had married Alice Okamota in 1940, and their two children were born in the war and relocation years. The family returned to Hayward in 1946. In 1991 one of the Domotos' three granddaughters wrote lovingly about her grandfather in a college essay. She said, "My grandfather has the most admirable spirit I have ever felt. He has a wisdom. .. from a lifetime's growth through innocence, loss, perseverance, betrayal, loneliness, love, hard work, and joy... He is able to reach beyond himself to see that he has not been alone in life's struggles. He is sympathetic and open to others' experiences. He gives the respect to others' differences that he learned to appreciate from his life as a Japanese boy and man who was abused by prejudice." In 1992, with the news that an oral memoir with Toichi was proposed, the nursery community's admiration and affection for Toichi Domoto was equally clear. Friends in garden groups, in professional nursery associations, in horticultural societies, knew how they had benefitted from Toichi 's plant introductions, and his expertise in floriculture- -and from knowing him. Toichi Doraoto dealt as sensitively with his fellow man as he ever did with a rare and tender cutting. Careful not to offend or xi presume, he learned to create an atmosphere where ignorance and prejudice dissolved in the face of decency. In 1981 and in 1987 Toichi Domoto had been interviewed briefly by the Regional Oral History Office. The focus in 1981 was on his recollections of Lurline Matson Roth, the owner and dedicated gardener of Filoli, in Woodside, California [now in the National Trust for Historic Preservation]. In 1987, when doing the Blake Estate oral history, we turned again to Mr. Domoto for his memories of Anita Blake and her sister Mabel Symmes. In this current 1992 oral history, which includes in the appendices the 1981 and 1987 interviews, we have reached for a wider scope than the previous two interviews. As the interviewer in California horticultural history for the office, it was my privilege to work with Mr. Domoto on these three assignments. I was happy to be back at the nursery on July 22, 1992 for the first of eight interviews. Mr. Domoto led the way out to the enclosed porch, and we sat down at a table, in front of three delightful bonsai plants. For the next interview sessions, the pattern was the same. Monday mornings at 9 a.m. Mr. Domoto would greet me, we would talk about whatever beautiful small plant was on show, and then we would interview. The sessions were two hours long. As persimmon season came along I accepted Mr. Domoto 's invitation to climb aboard his electric car for a tour around the nursery, and a stop by the cold storage to box up a generous supply of persimmons, the beautiful fruit very much associated with Domoto Brothers in its earlier days. Because of difficulties in Mr. Domoto 's speech due to a stroke in recent years, the taped interviews in some places presented a challenge to the transcriber. And because Mr. Domoto 's vision is deteriorated, and he could not undertake the usual step of the interviewee reading and reviewing the oral history, I read the transcript back to him, questioning for clarification, and incorporating in the text his additions and corrections. If errors of fact appear in the volume that follows they are likely due to the less -than- ideal circumstance of the interviewee being unable to give a detailed visual review .of his memoir. In the essay mentioned above, Mr. Domoto 's granddaughter describes her grandfather's day. "Every morning at five a.m. Toichi patiently gets dressed, picks up his cane, and walks to his office... He walks through the dew on the morning grass and scattered leaves as birds are singing and flying to and from the hundreds of trees that fill the nursery, while an occasional cat watches or follows him from behind. . . he reads the newspaper and bonsai magazines with a giant magnifying glass, naps, checks on the health of his plants, and feeds the stray cats that the neighboring apartment tenants have thrown over the nursery fence... The busy days of the once twenty-six acre nursery are now over..." xii But good friends remain, and visitors stop by, and calls come in for advice on the subjects Toichi knows best. Every time I visited Toichi Domoto, to interview, to read back the transcript, and most recently to borrow material to illustrate the oral history, I found myself in the disconcerting position of learning about an aspect of his work- -some plant introduction or some act of unsung generosity- -that was not pursued on tape. When I marveled at the magnitude and scope of his knowledge he said how fortunate he was that instead of just doing one thing in his chosen field of floriculture, conditions necessitated that he had to "travel with the times." Such a positive view of being forced to change by what were often far from ideal circumstances! The Regional Oral History Office is fortunate to have had the help of landscape architect Mai Arbegast in convincing Toichi Domoto that it was important to do the full memoir. In addition to Mai's help as advocate for the Off ice- -a role she also played for the Roth-Filoli oral history- -Ed Carmen of Carmen's Nursery in Los Altos was essential to the success of this undertaking. Strongly behind having an oral history done with Mr. Domoto- -he knew about the oral history office because of the series of interviews completed in the California Horticulture Oral History Series with Owen Pearce , Gerda Isenberg, Adele and Lewis Lawyer, and Wayne Roderick- -Mr. Carmen was a most effective fund- raiser. He knew who to ask, and how. Our thanks, and Mr. Domoto' s, to Ed and to Mai. Julius Nuccio, of Nuccio's Nursery, Altadena, California, and Ernest Wertheim, landscape architect, both expressed how honored they were to be asked to write introductions to their friend Toichi Domoto. Thanks also to Barbara Pitschel at the Helen Crocker Russell Library of Strybing Arboretum for her research help, to Lucy Tolmach at Filoli for providing the comprehensive list of Domoto plants at Filoli, and to Jim Kantor, University Archivist emeritus, for his volunteer proofreading of the volume. The Regional Oral History Office is under the direction of Willa K. Baum, and is an administrative division of The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Suzanne B. Riess Interviewer/Editor April 21, 1993 Regional Oral History Office The Bancroft Library University of California, Berkeley I FAMILY AND CHILDHOOD [Interview 1: July 22, 1992] Riess: You were born in 1902. Were you born at home? Domoto: Yes. I was born on December 11, 1902, in Oakland, on what used to be called Central Avenue, and it is now 55th Avenue, near East 14th Street. My mother told me that I was born exactly at twelve o'clock noon, because there used to be a fuse manufacturing company in Fitchburg [the Fitchburg district of Oakland] in those days, that used to have a factory. Their whistle would blow at noon- -and at morning and night. I was born just as the whistle blew, so I even know my exact time of birth. Riess: Did your mother have a doctor in attendance? Domoto: I think the birth certificate had a doctor's name on it, but in those days, I'm not sure whether she had a midwife or the doctor. Probably the midwife was there, but the doctor's name is on the birth certificate. Riess: Did your mother help your father in the business? Domoto: Not directly. She came from Japan in--I'm not sure just what year, but my father went back and they were married in Japan, and then came over. I think it was 1901 or so. She never went back to Japan. Riess: Was that something that she talked about, that she was sad about? V/// This symbol indicates that a tape segment has begun or ended. a guide to the tapes, see page 250. For Domoto: Yes. At one time, she always had hopes of going back and seeing the folks. Much later, she said, "I have no desire to go back there." The friends she knew and the relatives she wanted to see were gone, so no sense in going back any more. So she never got to go back. We had a big family. I think there were—must have been either ten or eleven of us children, almost year by year, that many. So she never got a chance to go back, and then the war--. Riess: You had many sisters, didn't you? Domoto: Yes. Only one brother still alive. I think I had one brother born and died in infancy. Riess: Was that typical, that a Japanese family would be so large? Domoto: Not all, but most of the earlier Japanese families- -maybe not as large as ours, but all had more than one or two children. If they didn't have children, it was thought there was something wrong. It's like your first generation Europeans, Italians, they all had big families. Riess: Because they wanted to place themselves on the land? Domoto: No, it wasn't that. I think, as we look back on it now, we know about birth control, but those days, they didn't know anything about birth control. Riess: And then your father's brother, did he have a large family also? Domoto: Yes. At least three of his five brothers all had good-sized families. Riess: Henry is the name of the brother who was in the business with your father? Domoto: Yes. He was a younger brother, and he was in charge of the more or less merchandising of the cut flowers side in San Francisco, the flower market side. Riess: When did they learn to speak English? Domoto: I don't know about my uncles, but my father and his older brother, they spoke very little English when they came here. I guess they were taught by some missionary in Japan before they came, but see, they came at quite a young age. My dad was I think only sixteen when he came. His older brother, maybe a year or two older. Then they learned in school; I think it was some person they worked with that taught them, probably a Missionary. But I know that whatever English they picked up would be here in the States and not in Japan, because they were over here at too young an age to have any teaching in Japan. Riess: Did your father talk much about his childhood in Japan? Domoto: Little, which was typical of most of the first generation. Now, I hear from several of the second and third generation Japanese that they have little knowledge of their family history. Some of them don't even know what area their parents came from. They know they came from Japan, but outside of that, they don't know. Riess: Why do you think that they were so quiet about the past? Domoto: Looking back now, I think it's mostly they were too busy trying to make a living, and had no time to talk to the youngsters. The curiosity wasn't there. And then especially if they were into the agricultural side, they were out in the country. You see, in the cities, where they had a settlement of Japanese, some of them might ask, "What Ken" --a Ken is a state in Japan- -"did you come from?" But otherwise, there was very little history written about the family tree. Although, some of the older families in those days, if a child was born here in the States, they were supposed to report their birth to the Japanese Consulate, and then they [the consulate] would register the birth in Japan in the village where they came from, in their records. There's a period when the second generation of Japanese, I think after the age of seventeen and before they were twenty-one, had to denounce their allegiance to Japan, and we had documents sent to erase the registry in Japan. That's why, in some of the history, you'll see mention about "dual citizenship." But in many cases the second generation didn't even know they had dual citizenship. Riess: At what point were you advised to do that, to renounce? Domoto: I think it was previous to the Alien Land Law. Riess: Do you think that your father came to this country expecting eventually to return to Japan? Domoto: I'm not sure. Most of the first generation of that period all had dreams of making enough money to return to Japan, or the home country. But as they kept working and establishing, families were born here, and it made it harder and harder to go back. Some of them went back, and if they had families here already, they'd come back again. Particularly I remember my in-laws, my wife's mother and father, at the time of the exposition in Japan- -that was '40, '41 or some thing- -their sons and daughters got some money together and told them to take a trip to Japan and see Japan. It was the first time that her father had been there in fifty years. Her mother had been back once or twice before. But they went there, and I think at that time they planned for them to stay past the New Year period, so they could enjoy the New Year and then come back. But before that [New Year], they phoned and said, "He's coming back." His daughter said, "Hey, Dad, we gave you the money to go and enjoy yourself over there." They insisted that he stay until after the New Year. The first thing we knew, we had a phone call from the airport, "Come and get me." Afterwards, "Why did you come back?" Well, you see, after fifty years, the people that he knew there, they had either gone or- -he had nothing in common with the people, even relatives. His family and his friends are all over here, so they came back. That's the story of a lot of the first generation. In another instance --this was mostly the families I knew around the Bay- -they had taken their, I think, two daughters back to Japan on a visit to see Japan. When they arrived in Japan, and looked around, pretty soon the daughters said, "Hey, when are we going to Japan?" They were in Japan. They said, "No, this isn't Japan. This is too dirty." They expected what they saw in the picture postcards, and what their mothers had told them, how beautiful it was. But get into a seaport town, you know, and youngsters, they felt it was just dirty, and they wanted to come home right away. [laughs] And I think that's true--. At that time there used to be some Italians from the first generation in the flower business, and Germans I used to know, we would get talking. I think they thought that way pretty much in common with the other nationals. Riess: Because when their parents talked about these places, they romanticized their memories? Domoto: Yes. And pictures, postcards, of like Fujiama or some shrine or something, they are really beautiful. Then when you arrive in a seaport, you go into the worst part of the city. Even on American railroads, you go into a big city, the railroads used to go into the poorest part, like New York. And Chicago, you go into a stockyard area. In San Francisco it used to be South San Francisco or Oakland- -the poorest part, not very beautiful to look at. II THE NURSERY BUSINESS, DOMOTO BROTHERS, INC. Quarantine 37 Riess: When did you first go to Japan? Domoto : Never been there . Riess: Have you come close? Domoto: No. The furthest I've been out is a trip out to the Farallones. [laughter] It's probably the way the nursery industry developed. If it wasn't for Quarantine 37, which stopped importing of plants from all over- -not just from Japan, but all over — for propagating purposes, to prevent disease and insects from coming in, I might have been inclined to go. But that stopped all chance of importing, because my father's business was started mainly in importing plants from Japan. Riess: In unlimited quantities? Domoto: Yes. Riess: To sell directly from that stock? Domoto: Yes, from the stock that came in, or they would take import orders and bring them in. The shipment wasn't year-round; it was generally through fall and early spring, when the plants were dormant . Riess: He must have needed a huge nursery to accommodate these grown plants. Domoto: The nursery on Central Avenue in Oakland, as I remember, the plants would come in in big crates, and we would unpack them, and sell the plants. The plants that came in from Japan at that time --the ones I remember as coming in in quantity were camellias, daphne, aspidistra, those were the main things. Then later, the fruit and nut trees from Japan. Some of the first persimmon trees and Japanese pear, summer plums. And chestnuts. Riess: Would people buy those trees as ornamental trees? Domoto: No, no. He was importing those mostly for not directly retail, very little retail. Most of them were sold to other nurseries in California for planting. One of the older nurseries was up in Newcastle, California, the Silva Bergholdt, they were fruit tree growers mainly. Then they were distributed through there. Riess: This would be two-year-old stock? Domoto: I guess it would probably be --we used to call it two-year, bare- root trees. They'd come in boxes, about three by three by six or seven feet. Those boxes, they used to be called ton baku. Ton baku. I guess it was more or less equivalent to our one ton, and baku means box. Since they came by boat, that was the unit of measurement for charging the freight. If it was heavy, they'd weigh it. If it was light, they'd be charged by the cubic feet. Riess: And it was spelled t-o-n as in ton? Domoto: As I remember. Riess: This sounds like one of those interesting examples of the Japanese -English mixed word. Domoto: Yes, where they kind of went together. Whether there is a term for Japanese meaning ton- - . I remember over the years when they talk about it, and then learning what the cubic measurement was, I understand that that was the way they determined it. The combination of English and Japanese together. • Tom Domoto 's Start in San Francisco Riess: Had your father made connections in the nursery business back in Japan when he was younger than sixteen? Domoto: No, no. Riess: So how did he develop these connections? Doooto: Mostly through correspondence with nurserymen in Japan. Riess: Can you imagine how he decided--! mean, to start in a business when you're sixteen is pretty impressive. Domoto: Probably because he came from an agricultural family. The older brother who came from Japan with him at the time, he was more interested in the business side. Eventually he went into the importing and exporting of Japanese goods, provisions and so forth. My father and his younger brothers, they came over later, and decided to go into the flower business. Riess: The older brother led the way. Domoto: My father did, as far as the nursery business. Riess: But in terms of coming to this country. Domoto: No, my father came with his older brother, because when they left for America, he felt that just going by himself wasn't safe, so my father came along with him. I think he was only sixteen when he came. And then the only work--. I know they were working either as houseboys, or I think they did some work for the old Palace Hotel in those days. And then Dad started doing gardening work for the Sutro family out near the Cliff House, where they had a big home and garden. He started taking care of the garden there. Riess: Did he live with that family? Domoto: No. They had a cottage place for the workers there. One of the instances that he remembered--! guess they had to do their own cooking, and one of the instances 1 remember him telling about, they used to like to cook pork chops. And the son --I don't know, being Jewish, they're not supposed to eat pork, but he liked the taste. He would come over and eat. Dad said he used to give him some cash and tell him, "Next time you buy some mutton, buy me a couple of pork chops," and then he would come down and eat with them. [laughter] Those are some more of the familiar items that Dad mentioned. I guess it's true, because several years later one of the sons came out to buy some plants from me. We started talking, and he said, "Yes, I'm the one that used to enjoy the 'lamb' chops." [laughter] I guess he [that son] was kind of a rascal. He used to do certain things around the garden that you're not supposed to do. He said he remembered my dad turning him over his knee and spanking him. [laughs] Not hard, but corporal punishment! Riess: Your dad wasn't that much older, either. Domoto: No. He was then probably --must have been about eighteen, nineteen. Riess: There was an example where he would pick up English, just talking to a young boy. Domoto: Yes. And some of the family he worked with, they would teach him English. Then I think the Salvation Army might have had some influence in teaching, because he was always very generous in giving a donation whenever anyone came around for the Salvation Army. He never said anything about it, but I think that's where he learned some . Riess: And they had missions, didn't they? Domoto: Yes, missionaries, yes. And they may have had some little training in the missionary schools in Japan. Very little, though. When he was sixteen- -you' re not much into other things. So we know very little about the early family history. Riess: Did your father keep the patronage of the Sutro family? Did he keep up that connection? Domoto: Yes. The Sutro family, and in Oakland the Chabots. And one of the older fruit merchants, he talked about--! think the name must have been Jacobson, but he used to call him Jacoby. Riess: Do you know whether any of those families were still around and were able to be helpful during the relocation period? Domoto: Oh, no. No, the second and third generations, the younger children were [around], but as far as any help that way, I don't think so. Riess: The connection was not there any more. Domoto: No. As far as when it comes to the time of relocation, I can tell later. Methods of Shir>Dine. Fumieation Riess: Domoto ; Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Did your father write in English? No. The only things he used to write were --he got to know how to write the names of plants. Letters in Japanese--. He knew what he wanted, and then the bookkeeper used to do the writing in Japanese letters, the ordering. No telephones, almost all letter correspondence . How long was the gap between an order and getting it filled? The fastest steamer in those days, 1 think we had to figure at least a month on the steamer. So the plants that came in, it would mean at least a month and a half from the time it was packed to the time it got to Oakland, San Francisco. There must have been a whole business of caring for the plants on shipboard, then? No, there was no care. They were all in enclosed boxes. But they didn't need to get moisture to them? No, they could still come in with the soil at that time, so the roots would be wrapped with spagnum moss, and then wrapped very tightly with rice straw, and rope, wound around, and made a tight ball, and then packed into crates. One crate, they would have maybe three sections where the ends of the balls would be up against the end of the box, and then each group was squeezed in very tightly. fl Was there was a process of fumigating at this end? Quarantine 37? This is before Oh, yes, way before. I think there was very little in the way of inspection. They were supposed to be clean plants when they came, but after they came to San Francisco, we had to fumigate them in the nursery. What kind of equipment did you use to fumigate? Actually there was very little fumigation in that period, the early period. Just they'd open up the box and look at it. But sometimes --there was a quarantine on chestnut trees and some of the fruit trees. And some of the boxes would come in, and they 10 Riess: Domoto : wouldn't even open them if it was not permitted, and we'd have to pour fuel oil over the top of the box and burn it. That was before 1910. After 1910 or '12, the nursery went from there, from 55th Avenue, to 79th Avenue [7921 Krause Street]. We had built a new glass house --this would be between about 1910 and 1914, I guess. This was the time we made a room for fumigating. Then we would take the plants out of the box, pack them in this room, and then I remember we would fumigate them. We used to have an old white porcelain chamber pot- -they had that in there. They used to measure sulfuric acid in there, and then the cyanide weighed out, and they used to have a little trap door and we'd dump the cyanide pellets into it and then close the trap door, and then they had to be left in there overnight and then opened up. That was the only fumigation. There was very little spraying done; they used to all fumigate. Was that a very hazardous practice? It was, and [there were] nowhere near the precautions you have to take these days. In fact, I used to drop the cyanide in. Later it got a little better, and the cyanide, instead of being in lumps and we had to weigh it out, it used to be made into little pellets—not pellets, but bricquets, like a bricquet. They must have weighed--! don't know the weight, but each of those was supposed to be one ounce or something. So you'd drop two or three depending on the size of the room, and the degree of strength that they'd use for fumigating. Kid Glove Oranges Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : You said your father came from an agricultural family. of agriculture? What kind The family, I guess they were mostly rice, and mostly--! don't think they raised any, but they were in the section where the Mandarin oranges were being grown. I don't know how soon after the brothers came from Japan, but they had some oranges that came from Mandarin- -they used to call it Kid Glove oranges. Kid Glove? Because of the feeling of the texture? Yes. And they said they used to stand out on the street there in San Francisco and sell them. They used to peel the orange and 11 show it to the people, let them taste it and buy it. It went over really good. So the next year, when the season came in, the two brothers decided to get a bigger shipment, and for some reason 1 understand that the shipment was delayed, or something went wrong with the packing, I don't know, but the things had rotted en route. They had to clean out the ship's hold where it was kept, but they had no money to pay for the cleaning, so the two brothers had to go in there and clean it out themselves. Riess: Good luck, bad luck! What prefecture did they come from? Domoto: I think it was Vakayama Ken. Riess: Your father sounds gutsy. Domoto: Most of the earlier generation that came in along that period, they were all very adventurous. The ones I knew, most of them came from- -and several around the Bay Area here, they were into agriculture or farmed- -they were all from the same area. Riess: He was a person willing to take some risks, certainly. Domoto: Yes. I think in that respect probably yes. The New Ranch. Greenhouses Domoto: About the last of the big import orders came from Japan for the 1915 Fair. That was the last of the big import orders that came in, either from Japan or from Europe. Riess: By 1910 your family had moved to what you call the New Ranch, at 79th and Olive in Oakland. Where is that? What's there now? Domoto: What's there now, it's a park. I don't know what it's called. It's between East 14th and Foothill Boulevard. The New Ranch I think was purchased about the year I was born, around 1901 or 1902, at that time. It was owned by a family called Dowling. Riess: Did your family purchase it outright? Domoto: Oh, no, it was on contract. 12 Riess: The Dowlir.g family held the mortgage? Domoto: Yes. Eventually It was paid off. Then I guess after that, the banks held the mortgage. Riess: It sounds like it was a huge undertaking. Twenty- five greenhouses, twenty-eight by two hundred feet in size. (California Flower Marketing book says fifty- two greenhouses on thirty- five acres.] Domoto: My cousin wrote up an article. She saw some of the pictures in the catalogues. So as far as greenhouses, twenty-eight by two hundred, that was about the largest one. The other hour were much smaller, and instead of being--. Nowadays modern greenhouses all are- equal span, but in those days the forcing greenhouses were three-quarter span. Big sunny side and a short side. And those would be what they call the range houses, one next to each other. It wasn't until much later .t even-span houses were being built. Riess: Tell me about the technology of that. Why did they decide the even span was better? Domoto: Because of the sunlight. Riess: But it sounds like getting three-quarters of the sun is getting more sun. Domoto: The morning sun. I think that most houses used to run east and west. So the morning sun would hit on the short side, and the angle being sharper, it let more light into the house than the afternoon. The afternoon sun, the longer sunlight, would come in on the sloping side. And even the tables in the houses in those days were on elevated benches . The plants would be about an even distance away from the roof, but the slope of the benches, the benches would go the length of the house, but they'd have one tier, and the next tier. Then we used to have planks to walk on in between the benches, just mainly for the rose houses, the cut flower, rose growing. Riess: Was that the style of the greenhouses in Japan? Domoto: No. Those greenhouses probably came from back East or even maybe Europe . Because greenhouses as such in Japan are a much later thing. Riess: What did they use for protection in Japan? Domoto: I don't know. Horticulture in Japan, commercial production, is- -I wouldn't say primitive, but probably from what I know, have heard 13 about, it was on a ouch smaller scale. I think the horticulture, greenhouse, and nursery practice in California followed more the European practice, adapting it to the California climate. Ikebana. and Japanese Culture Riess: When I think of flower arrangement in Japan, it's certainly on a smaller scale. Domoto: You see, ikebana and bonsai as such really didn't come into prominence until way after the war. Riess: In Japan? Domoto: No, I mean here. Riess: But I was trying to think about why in Japan there would not be a big floriculture business. Domoto: Ikebana was more the practice of the elite group. It was like someone in the upper class in the US, they'd be taking music and dance lessons, stuff like that. Riess: A leisure class activity. Domoto: I would think it would be class -related. You had to be rich in order to be able to have those vases and things. The other flower arranging, probably if they had the alcove in the home, would be very simple. The art of flower arranging, it wasn't until much later that the practice started to get going, where you had different schools of ikebana. Riess: That's interesting. I guess what I think of as typical Japanese activities, like writing haiku, and ikebana and playing samisen or something, are all more related to the upper classes? Domoto: I think the koto in Japan could be compared with our piano. If they're taking koto lessons, why, that was the culture lesson. Whereas if they played the samisen or the banjo, that would be probably the instrument of the middle class. The well -trained geishas used to entertain with the samisen or the koto. A good geisha would probably be able to play the samisen really well. It was only the- -I'm not sure whether the older generation of the women really played much samisen. I more or less- -I may be wrong, because I never studied history there, but I have a feeling that 14 Riess: Domoto: the samisen was connected more with the happy times and the drinking, entertainment side. In the U.S., the average family, the son or daughter was taught piano lessons — or probably in the deep South, they might take banjo or violin. Violin, of course, someone in their family might, if they wanted to be a famous violinist or something. But otherwise, piano was the jazz music here, both for the common man and the elite. Since we're speculating about culture, was the composing of haiku an upper-class thing? I don't know. I didn't care too much about any of this. It's probably like your old English poets, the bards, in comparing the history, that was probably about the same. As far as the older generation, some of them would have pretty good voices, and they'd sing. I didn't know what they were singing, but most of them probably might be connected with the ballads of the South, country mus ic . Employees at the New Ranch Riess: I know that you didn't live in Japan, so I wonder, is your knowledge of the ways of Japan from reading? Have you enjoyed reading novels or literature of Japan? Domoto: No. My idea of reading Japanese is torture. Riess: I don't mean in the language, but translations of books? Domoto: No. Most of it [knowledge] is from hearing people talk about it, and knowing what they did- -from that angle. As far as studying history, that would be mostly from my Stanford days, and that would be much later. This [what we are talking about] would be what I heard from the employees of my father. In those days, quite a number of the men that worked for my dad were younger men from Japan who were here so they wouldn't have to go into the compulsory military training. Riess: What age is that? Domoto: I guess it must have been in the late teens to the early twenties, I guess- -maybe just out of high school, or just into college- -so that they won't have to go and take compulsory training. Most of 15 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: them, they were earnest enough, but I never could see how they were very practical. Do you mean that they were conscientious objectors? No. Conscientious objectors, that's a word that was coined in World War II. World War I, there were no conscientious objectors They were just called draft evaders. "Conscientious" is more of the next generation, when they wanted to have a little better connotation of what it meant. But for these young Japanese men who wanted to avoid military training, was it a matter of principle or was it that they just wanted not to have to do that at that time? The military training is very rigid, and tough, get away from it. They wanted to Along after 1917, I guess the first of the persons from Japan supposed to be a guy from an agricultural school that was any good as far as nursery was from a school in northern Japan, in a section called Chiba. He was trained as a pot plant grower. We used to raise cyclamen in those days, and he was put in charge, and I think produced some of the best cyclamen plants at that time for the flower market. Did those young men, workers, go back to Japan after a certain period of time? Domoto: The first group, most of them went back in old age, I think. The earlier ones that came from Japan and were with my father, they were more agricultural, and a good many of those people went into the flower business around the Bay Area here. Some, one or two of them, probably went to Los Angeles in the cut flower business, growing carnations or chrysanthemums, roses, but they were mostly around the Bay Area. [See discussion, chapter IX.] Riess: I started to ask earlier what kind of training your father would have had in Japan, by the time he was sixteen. Domoto: No training. When you're sixteen, you don't have much training. 16 III TOICHI DOMOTO Learning Kan- 11 Riess: One thing I wanted to pursue: you said it would be "torture" to read a novel in Japanese. Do you read Japanese? Vere you brought up to be bilingual by your parents? Domoto: We were taught a little bit, but I never cared for any of that. By 1916, '17, when Quarantine 37 went in, I had this idea, if they want to buy plants, if they want to sell plants to me, they've got to read English. That was my attitude as a youngster. "If they can't read my English, I'll get them from somebody else that can." Riess: That's a pretty tough stand. Domoto: That was my thought. As far as trying to learn Japanese- -not that I wanted to learn Japanese, but because my mother wanted us to be able to learn Japanese --the only thing I remember in those days was we had a teacher, a hieroglyphic teacher rather than a language teacher. He was an ex-principal of a Japanese school, and he was a good teacher. So I learned the Kan-ji, or the Chinese hieroglyphics, and I can get these Japanese books [on bonsai] now, and I'm thankful I learned that, because I can count the strokes and look in the dictionary to find the name of the plants. But as far as reading the text, I can't read it. Riess: What is Kan-ji? Domoto: Kan-ji means "Chinese word." "Kan" is I think Chinese, and "ji" is word. In Japanese, when you say Kan-ji, it would be [spells]. But translated, it means --the characters in Chinese are block- letters. That's the Chinese hieroglyphic, their alphabet. That went to Japan. r 17 Riess: Is learning Kan-ji part of the education of the Japanese student? Domoto: Oh yes, it was, but it became less and less. The Japanese language in reading even the bonsai books now, it's entirely different. Riess: This is Kan-ji? [looking at bonsai book] Domoto: Yes, this is Kan-ji. Yes. You see, each of those is a stroke, and in a Japanese dictionary they're separated by number of strokes. In Kan-ji, the "sal" [in bonsai] means art. But the Kan-ji is made up of words. Even the carvings on your walls in South America, some of those hieroglyphics, like the hieroglyphic for tree, has the same meaning there in Chinese. It would be this [demonstrates] - -that's your tree. Then for a man, it would be just the two strokes. Then some of the more complicated letters are made up of a composition of the different strokes. For instance, anything that's wood or tree would have a symbol like that; that means wood. [demonstrates] "Ki." Riess: A vertical shape plus the tree, the growing form. Domoto: Yes. That would be the left side. Then the right side would be whatever strokes would describe the name, like tsuga or cryptomeria, or pines. Earlv Schooling Riess: You were willing to learn Japanese to that extent. That's what your mother made sure that you learned. Domoto: Veil, I learned that from the teacher. Riess: Was that after school? Domoto: All after school. The thing [is] that, the thought would run through--. If I was writing a composition in English, and then going to Japanese school after school, my English composition, if I got a good grade in that, no corrections, I was thinking in English. And then sometimes the teacher would say, "Grammatically correct, but rather stilted in form." I remember those comments I used to get back, and I couldn't understand why I would do that. Here I was doing my best to do 18 it, but then when my interest in the Japanese language side got so I was thinking more that way, why, then it would relate to my English writing, compositions. Riess: Somewhere in your head you would translate? Domoto: Yes, without knowing what you were doing. You're thinking either what you're reading in Japanese or English. So as far as composition, I used to have to spend almost- -I'd wait until the last minute to do my composition papers, I'd stay up half the night to get them done. Riess: Were you the scholar in your family? The smartest child? Domoto: I was the only son. My brother was much younger; he was ten years younger, so it's a different decade already. But I don't know, I was the only son; the rest were daughters. Career Hopes, and Reality. Ted Sakai Domoto: I didn't have a chance to go out, since we were in a rural area, didn't have much chance to go out and play, so I used to be around the nursery more, following my dad or fooling around there. But as far as being a nurseryman, 1 had no desire at the time to be a nurseryman. I wanted to be something connected with- -a mechanic. Riess: Had some teacher told you that you had a good feeling for mechanics? Domoto: No, it was just that around the nursery we had a lot of things and I used to like to fool around with mechanics. Riess: There are lots of things to fix, aren't there? Domoto: Yes. In the nursery you had to be a plumber, and then anything else that would be along that line- -steamf itter , carpenter. So you follow along, you learn. It's funny, my neighbor, Ted Sakai, from the Sakai family in Richmond, he was in college in engineering. And yet he was the oldest son, and he went to work in the family business growing roses. He probably has the largest rose range in the Bay Area here now. Riess: He's adjacent to you? 19 Domoto: Just the other side, going towards Tennyson Road. There's the high school, right next to the high school, the big range of greenhouses there, and that's all they raise is roses. Riess: Did he have the sane experience as you, that he wanted to get into mechanics? Domoto: Yes, and then his thinking--! had talked to him, I think we ran up against the same thing: there's little chance for a college graduate in engineering to get a good job because of discrimination, even now. • So even though we had that knowledge, in the love for tinkering with the cars and things of that type, why, the only thing where we had any chance to do and make a living was in the nursery. And being the oldest in the family, more and more the job of the nursery was shifted onto us; the second generation, the younger ones took it on. Mechanical Solutions. Rose Growing Riess: When we looked at your college photo albums, 1 admired how wonderfully they were put together, the placement on the page, and your lettering, and a sort of collage. Are you sure you didn't want to go into some design profession, or architecture? Domoto: No. My interest was always around mechanical things. I thought I would be some kind of engineer, but the way the society was, there wasn ' t much future . Just the other day I was talking with Ted Sakai. He said as far as interest in mechanics --and I guess in my case too --any time anything came along that we thought we could mechanize to make it easier for us to work with, we could see the difference, we would put it in. We were willing to try it-. Having that inclination- -like in the greenhouse you use boilers for heating, steam boilers, and I noticed whenever any new, mechanical idea for safety came along, he was one of the first ones to put it in the greenhouse. Where some of the older fellows operating, they would hesitate putting anything new in because they couldn't see it. Riess: What is an example of something in your nursery? 20 Domoto: In my case--. We used to have to change the soil in the rose houses every two years, put fresh soil in to plant the roses. And in order to take the soil out, we always used to use wheelbarrows. But after seeing the cart deal the fruit dryers used--. The carnation growers had fixed a method where they would have a two-sided box for the plants they were growing outside during the early part of the season. Then when it was time to bring them into the greenhouse, that section would come in. And they had those, like the fruit-drying carts, the four wheel, the rail-like track, they put them on that and rolled it in. We had carpenters in those days and they built sectioned track, like toy electric train tracks, you know, same idea, so we could roll them [boxes] in, put that on top of the bench, and throw the soil into the box and haul it outside and dump it into the dump wagon and haul it out to the field. Riess: Were you preparing new soil to replace it? Domoto: Yes, in those days we'd have a field area, and the area that the soil would be brought in, they would plant cover crops in there ahead, and get ready. And even get some cow manure and plow it and work it in, and bring that soil in. Then where we took the soil- -we would just rotate the soil from the greenhouse out there in the field, and the fresh soil would go into the benches. Riess: And how many years between rotations? Domoto: In those days about two, or three. Now they hardly ever change the soil. They steam the soil. Rose growing is entirely different now. Before, if the rose varieties went for more than a couple of years the production got poor. Now they prune them back, and in the greenhouses now you can see where they get real tall, and they still get good [production]. Riess: The Sakais were growing roses when the Domotos were growing roses? Domoto: Yes, there was quite a group over in the Richmond area, several families over there, Sakais, Nabetas, Adachis. Riess: This Sakai who is your neighbor, did he have his greenhouses here? Domoto: No, he built here in- -it must have been after the war. They were expanding over here. They still have a place in Richmond where his two brothers operate the old place. And Ted came out here, and started to develop this place over here. They are, I would say, the best rose -growers around here. They timed it right. 21 Riess: How long was that a part of your operation? Domoto: After I came back from college, in 1926, 1927, I had very little to do with the cut flowers then. I was mostly into nursery pot plants . Riess: Then when you were talking about mechanizing the soil replacement, are you referring back to before college? Domoto: That was before, during around 1915, 1916, 1917. Early. Fertilizer Mix Riess: Are there other mechanical innovations you brought in when you established this place? Domoto: I don't think anything really different too much. Probably the first thing that evolved in the nursery part there as far as growing was the fertilizing method. That has changed. In Dad's placo, the old place, you used to have a tank house, a water tank on top, and then you would have a concrete basin underneath, and you would throw fertilizer into there, and then pump the liquid out of that for liquid feeding. Just a hit and miss idea. Later, much later, the growers got a lot more scientific, more by analysis, rather than hit or miss. Shimmy [Yoshimi] Shibata was one of the first to bring in an outside expert. He had studied at Ohio State and he got an expert from Ohio State to come out and supervise the fertilizing. That must have been along in the early thirties. And I think also McLellan earlier had hired [this man] to consult. Instead of just pumping liquid out, hit or miss, it got so that the newer ones, they get the simple elements in maybe four or five different tanks, and they use a proportioner to feed whatever 's going in. And that's because instead of growing a varied crop, they were Just growing one crop- -roses, or carnations. And then they'd also find out that at a certain time they were supposed to feed. Riess: Did they learn method from the smart young sons coming back from college? Domoto: Some of it was because some of them studied floriculture, like I did. But the other part is the change in the industry itself. 22 They used to have the fertilizer salesmen coming in, trying to sell the fertilizer. But I guess the innovation of nore the mechanical, scientific side, really didn't come in, really scientific, until much later when the younger students graduated from college in floriculture, or agriculture. And then they started to put those things in. Not the first generation, but the beginning of the older second generation that took over the growing. Like Shimmy. That's the cut flower side. The nursery side probably almost correlates, but a little differently. The cut flower side, the pot plant side, they were more intensive growers, whereas the nursery side, very few second generation went into the retail nursery. They had little nurseries, but not so much in production. They were more buy and sell. In southern California they got fairly large, growing one item. But in the Bay Area we never had any really large nursery growers. Mostly around the Bay Area they went more into the greenhouse, either the cut flower or pot plant side. So actually there was a divergence of commodity they were raising. Environmental Cleanup Riess: Driving to this interview I heard a discussion on the radio of methyl bromide, eliminating its use because of the damage to the ozone . Domoto: Oh, everything! Even fertilizers. Mt. Eden Nursery- -that's the Shibatas, 1 was talking with Jerry Shibata- -they had a place down past Decoto, on the highway going into San Jose, on the left-hand side. They went into production growing chrysanthemum cuttings, just selling their cuttings to the growers. They called it Cal- Florida. Then when most of the growers moved on to the Watsonville-Salinas area they decided to move their propagation down there because there was no sense in growing the cuttings and taking them down there. So they had the place for sale. Since the area has been zoned residential, or high density, where they had a fuel tank buried in the ground, and it was leaking, they had to take out 28 feet of soil. And the growing area, where they had the plants outside, because they had been using different fertilizers, and methyl bromide and some of the other things, in order to sell that property for residential they had to remove the top two feet of soil, or else they could reverse 23 It with three feet of soil below that, put that down—but if you did that you had to wait two years before you could use it. Riess: You think this is overly conscientious? Domoto: I think so. Like in his place, and ours around here, in order to save heat all the stean pipes, the heating pipes, we used to cover with asbestos. Well, portions of that were probably thrown out, but any part of that could drop down, and asbestos now is a no-no. Even in the buildings, we used to have asbestos board for insulation in the older houses, and probably even here, I don't know. But that's a no-no. Riess: I interviewed Ruth Bancroft about her cactus and succulent garden in Walnut Creek. The land used to be covered with walnut trees, and when they removed the trees to start the garden in 1971 they fumigated with methyl bromide. I was interested in whether you went through any similar process when you removed the apricot trees here. Domoto: No. Riess: Why would she? And why wouldn't you? Domoto: Different era. Riess: Not having done it, did that mean you were constantly battling certain funguses? Domoto: The only battle--. The only thing we were probably worried about around here was being able to pull the old stumps out, the apricots, because some of the roots might have oak root fungus, something like that. Riess: You didn't feel you had to sterilize the soil? Domoto: Oh, no. That was a matter of merely planting a cover crop and buy cow manure and spread it over the field and plow it in. Sterilizing the soil, that didn't come in until much later. And in the cut flower side, instead of moving all that soil outside and changing it, they started to steam-sterilize the soil, and put in additives, either some fresh soil or fertilizer, and work that in. They found out they could produce the same crop and eliminate all that labor of changing the soil. Riess: And on that Bancroft land they prepared the soil by mixing compost and soil and sand, and they laid out the beds, and in two weeks 24 they were awash in weeds , and were spraying for weeds , and handpicking weeds. What did you use to fight weeds? Domoto: Oh, 2 4-D. And now, of course, we have Roundup. Not 2 4-D. But composting the soil, and mixing that compost pile, it is gradually changing. History is changing, from field preparation- - the old days when they used to buy fresh soil, and put a layer of soil and a layer of manure and a layer of soil and then having to turn it over by hand. Then more modern, they got so they used a rototiller to mix it in. It's been a gradual evolution all the way along the line without even noticing. The younger ones going in, they won't even know what they did before. Riess: The ones who didn't grow up on the farm, or in the nursery. Domoto: Even if they grew up in the nursery they might know what was happening there, but they wouldn't know what their fathers had done before. Unless they were old enough to kind of remember what happened. Third Generation Riess: We were talking about generational changes. Domoto: The third generation now, very few are going into the nursery business. Like Sakai's family, I think there are several children- -male and female- -and only one member of the family is still with the nursery side of the business. And he's in the selling side rather than the growing side; he's one of the younger ones . The rest are- -one of the sons is a fiscal administrator for Stanford. Recently he resigned and went to take a job in Hawaii. One of the daughters is a physical therapist, and the other is a medical doctor. They're all in the professions. The other one is an attorney. Very few are going into the nursery business as such. Riess: Domoto: Do daughters ever take over the businesses? And I mean from the growing end. Can you think of any? No. Of course, a lot of them used to have to work around the greenhouses, if the family operated the thing in a small way, like any small business. But as far as them going into it, I don't know of any. 25 Riess: It wouldn't be encouraged? Domoto: I don't think so. They were probably more into teaching or into independent things, social work, things like that. Not because they got any encouragement from the family or not, it was just they were more independent. And less parental influence, getting away from parental influence. Riess: One of the reasons probably that it was hard when you graduated, or when Sakai graduated, to get a Job is because you graduated into the Depression. Wasn't that part of it, rather than discrimination? Or do you think it was really discrimination? Domoto: Even before the Depression, I remember several of the graduates from Cal and Stanford at that time had masters, and some of them even had Ph.D.s. At that time, back in '21 at Stanford, they had a number of graduate students from Japan. They were taking electrical engineering and mechanical engineering, and then they went back, because they came from Japan. But the younger ones that graduated in the same class in June had a hard time getting a job here, and eventually, I think, one or two of my classmates here went back to Japan and got a job there. But there again, if they were American-born they were discriminated against. So their chance of getting a job was very slim. At that time I think Vestinghouse had a branch in Japan, and they were sending some of the students to study at Stanford. When they went back eventually they ended up being one of the administrators, so anybody that graduated from Stanford in engineering would have a fair chance of getting a job there in Japan. As far as the university clubs, at Stanford you had a much stronger club in Japan than California did. So the graduate students from Cal, because we used to be on very friendly terms too, they used to ask me to attend the Stanford alumni club there, and they, of course, have their own club. In those days, they used to have a club together. Riess: That's interesting, that there was that sort of route back through Westinghouse. Domoto: Right now they talk about international trade, you can see how way back even then, how the business world is different entirely from the social world. [tape interruption] 26 Story of the Interpreter [discussing another interviewer-visitor to Mr. Domoto] Domoto: [Assistant Professor] Chang at Stanford University, he and Iwata came over just a little while before you started these interviews and wanted to interview about Professor Ikihashi. I talked with them for two hours. They asked questions, talking. Riess: Ikihashi was at Stanford? Domoto: Yes, he was professor there in Japanese. He was one that had gone to the [Paris] peace conference [League of Nations] in those days, interpreters for the Japanese government. One of my roommates at Stanford, George Mizota, he was Japanese-born and came to California at a very early age, and he was brought up by a Caucasian family down in Brawley. He really worked his way through Stanford, and later he went back to Japan. He graduated in commercial or international law. At the time after [World] War II when they signed the surrender by Japan, he was there attending it, because he was Admiral Nomura's interpreter when he used to make a trip to the conferences. During War II, George told me later, all they had to do was sit around and talk and try to learn how to play golf, because they didn't trust Nomura. He had been trained in the American Naval Academy. He was not pro-Japanese, but he was of the opinion that Japan lacked the natural resources, and that in a long war Japan could never win. Whereas the other group, they figured they could win, so they didn't want him with that feeling, being in the consulting group. So during the war, they didn't even get into- -except for the time of the signing of the surrender, he [George] was brought in [with Nomura] because I think the thought was that he'd know more about the way the Americans were feeling, that it would be a little easier for him. At least that's the way George told me. I think he [George] was --being an attorney, he probably knew- -the reason he got along with the admiral was because he wouldn't give his own interpretation. He would interpret just the thoughts that the admiral had. 27 Generation Gap Doraoto: That's the trouble with so many interpreters, they like to put their impressions in there. Actually, we're not getting true interpretation from a lot of these interpreters per se. When you listen to the TV or radio, when the interpreters come on, why, you know it's different from what the thought must be behind it. And that is irregardless of what language they have. I think a lot of them, unless they 're --well, I feel now, unless they are the same generation, you're not going to get the same interpretation. Because each generation, and now probably the generation gap is probably getting less and less --the older generation there is probably fifteen, twenty years before there's much difference in the generation gap. But now it's much closer. Like the hippie generation, now I see the sociologists have divided it into the early, middle, and late hippies. Because they all have different ideas. My wife used to tell my son about the hard times we had during the first Depression, how little we had to live with, or work with. His answer, and 1 still remember it, was, "Mom, aren't you glad you're living with us now?" You can tell them all you want about the first Depression, the second Depression, they don't know because they haven't been taught that way. Their lifestyle is different. So probably a man earning a dollar, two dollars a day, had to support a family on two dollars a day- -it's just a figure, it doesn't mean anything. Riess: But you have had the experience, I think you told me, of suddenly another generation becoming interested in the past. Perhaps your son is not so interested, but your grandchildren are. Isn't that what you were saying to me, that there's more interest in the past? Domoto: As far as history, yes, but as far as going into the nursery business, no. Riess: Yes, history. Domoto: Right now, I find not only in the Japanese but other nationalities, I find that they're interested in the family tree. Not even doing anything about it, but they like to know what happened, where they came from. A lot of the European immigrants, they don't know where they came from either, especially if they came in without a- -illegally- -like some of them did. Riess: Changed their names. 28 Domoto: Changed their names, and they don't know what area they came from, especially if their parents were born and they passed away here, they don't know. Riess: Very often there's an unhappy story. Domoto: Most of them, or else they're very adventurous and came. Either way. Riess: Have you had a chance to talk with any of the Southeast Asian immigrants, who are now taking over some of the agricultural work, the Cambodians or Vietnamese? Domoto: No. Riess: I wondered if you had any impressions of what this new wave of Asian immigrants meant. Domoto: All I know is what I hear. Most of the new immigrants as such are coming in are going into like the restaurant business. The Koreans have taken over the Chinese restaurants that were owned by Cantonese, the Koreans are taking them over. And then also, some of the fruit sellers, fruit and vegetables. I think for a while there were some Koreans that were going into doing gardening work; a few of them are going into the business on their own. Recently, there has been- -I noticed in Bonsai [magazine]--! guess they're either from Korea or from Hong Kong, they're importing plants and things, going that line. Most of the others, if they do come from Japan, they're more interested in the business side, industry. Earlv Childhood Memories of the Nursery Riess: I'd like to go back to your first memories of life around the nursery. Domoto: My first impression I have of the nursery, I never was very much interested in plants per se. The thing that I know is my father and mother told me when I first started to walk around, when we were getting plants from Japan, importing at that early period, it was plants that I remember as camellias, daphne, aspidistras, the different fruit trees--. And fern balls. The davillia fern that would be wound around with a moss ball, and they'd soak it, and the dormant roots would come out in fronds . 29 Riess: What kind of fern? Domoto: Davillia [squirrels foot fern]. That was the common one, in the ball shape. They'd soak them in the tub overnight to get the moss really wet, and then hang them in the warm greenhouse, and eventually the fronds would come out, and then they'd sell them. We used to ship them out. Riess: And that's one of the things you remember seeing when you were very young? Domoto: In the early days that they were importing. And then later, the camellias- -not too many varieties at that time. I don't remember the flowers in those days, but the first camellia I remember, I came back from the glass house and I had pulled a lot of the buds off, and brought them- -I called them momo, it means peach. I didn't know it. I guess if it wasn't for the fact I was a kid and I was really cute, why, I would have probably gotten spanked, [laughter] Because they were importing these plants with the buds, to sell them so they'd flower in the spring, and the variety—it was 'Pink Perfection,' which is even now still sold-- is one that drops the buds very easily. 'Pink Perfection' is the name that my father gave to it — they call it 'Usu-Otume' in Japan. So he gave it the name 'Pink Perfection. ' There are about three or four varieties of the early camellias. There is 'Pink Perfection,' and 'Red Otume,' which is supposed to be the Perfection type. Then there was the 'Purity,' or 'Shiragiku.' 'Shiragiku' means white chrysanthemum, and that was named 'Purity.' And 'Daikagura [Azalea macrantha, or Rhododendron indicum] . ' 'Daikagura' is still called 'Daikagura.' Riess: So there you were, with this handful of buds --momo. Domoto: Yes. I guess it must have been a small handful, because small hands don't hold very much. Riess: Do you know the story of Momotaro? Vould the story of the Peach Boy have had a kind of magic quality for you? Domoto: I don't- -the name probably might have. I know some of the Japanese fables like Momotaro because Mother used to relate them to us. Riess: So until you were ready to go to school, you spent a lot of your time-- Domoto: Just playing around the nursery. I had no interest in plants at that time. I knew what was grown, but as far as interest--. 30 Grammar School Domoto: I didn't start graanar school until I was eight years old. Riess: Was that because of the language, or because you were so far out in the country? Domoto : Too far away to go to school . Riess: What happened when you were eight? Was this a new school? Domoto: It was called Melrose Heights. It was on 50th and Melrose Avenue. I went there and of course- -all I knew was when I wanted to go to the bathroom, I had to "go to the toilet." Riess: Was it kind of a torture in the beginning? Domoto: Oh, yes, because I didn't understand a word. I had to learn the alphabet, and you didn't learn it "A, B, C," it was like the sounds-- [phonetically] "ah, bee, cee, dee, eh, eff, gee [hard g] , aitch, i"- -phonetic sounds. So when I'd get home, my dad was trying to help me with my English, and so A, B, C--and I didn't know what he was talking about. Riess: It sounds hard. Were you in a class with other Japanese boys? Domoto: I was the only one. There were very few Japanese at that time. My cousin, she took me to the school the first day of school, but as far as any other time around the school, I never saw her. So I was pretty much on my own. Riess: And were you left out of the play of the other children? Domoto: I don't remember that part so much, because there wasn't too much play. Probably the only recess, you'd go because you wanted to go to the bathroom. Recess play as such, I don't remember until about the third grade at Lockwood Grammar School. Then they used to have- -you'd go out and play tag or something like that. Riess: And then was it possible for you to join in at that point? Domoto: Not too much, although in most of my association with school I'd get along with a few students, not try to get along with the whole bunch. I was not particularly a loner, but I was not physically endowed, shall we say, to go into athletics or anything like that. So I was more of a bystander. 31 Embarrassine Moments Domoto: One of my embarrassing moments in the grammar school was, we were turning our papers, and the corner of the paper happened to get in my eye and tears started to run. The teacher saw me, and I couldn't tell her what happened. She thought I must have a stomachache, so she called my cousin and told her to bring me home, find out *? something was wrong. [laughter] Riess: Because you still hadn't enough English to explain that you had cut yourself with the paper? Domoto: No. I couldn't tell her. Riess: Oh, dear. Was the teacher nice to you? Domoto: Yes, most- -my first and second grade teachers, most of my teachers I got along with very well. That was in the first and second grade. Then we moved to the New Ranch in the Lockwood School District. Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : When we were looking at your albums I was struck by the great mixture of ethnic types in the students at Lockwood Grammar School. The first grammar school, Melrose Heights, in Oakland, that took in the students from the Foothill area of Oakland, between 50th and 55th Avenue, about Foothill Boulevard. That was more of what you might call a straight white group. There were very few other nationalities there, and I was probably the only Japanese. A few others, probably of German descent. When it came to Lockwood- -we moved to Lockwood in 1910- -that was much more a mixed group. Portuguese, some Italian, German- very few Negroes at that time. I think there was one boy in our class, and he wasn't all black, and we never thought of him as black. And there was a Swedish family. So, quite a mixture. The students looked polished and prosperous in the picture. Well, that was just for the picture, dresses, and suits, for the picture, that. They tried to have uniform The parents tried to provide Do you know any of those classmates now? Did they prosper? I don't know. Even my high school group I don't remember. If they did, I don't know. 32 In the Lockwood School, the teachers were of German descent. The first principal who was there I think was German. His name was Greenman. Big heavy set man. The punishment in those days, if you got sent to his office, you'd get a beating with a strap. I never got a beating from him. I could never carry a tune, and so when they'd have a music lesson, I guess it was in fourth or fifth grade, grammar school, and we were supposed to have a singing lesson, each one would get up and try to sing "do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do." They said to me, "No, you're off key." I said, "I'm doing my best." I guess she thought that I and a few others were deliberately not doing what we were being told. So we'd be sent out of school by the grass, we'd go out in the playground. At that time there used to be a big old cypress tree that we could climb, and we could get up on top of that, and when we got there, we would yell our head off singing, you know. I don't think you could hear that much, but we were out there singing. I think there were about five of us who always would get sent out, one after the other. Riess: Then would you tell your parents after school when this had happened? Domoto: Oh, no. I'd get a lecture. But actually, at that time I wasn't able to carry a tune. I was doing my best, but I thought well, if they don't want me in there I'll go outside. The second principal we had, we used to line up there- -this is the third or fourth grade- -we would line up during recess to go into the classroom, and when we were in line we were not supposed to talk. We had a substitute teacher, and I think the student in front of me or back of me was talking. I and another student right next to me, we were picked out as the ones talking in line, and we were sent to the principal. We had to hold our hands out like this [demonstrates]. He said, "Hold out your hands," and he'd get a leather strap and whip our hands. I never knew [that] if I yelled or cried he would stop. As long as I didn't, he didn't stop, he kept hitting me. This was before lunch. I couldn't hold my sandwich at lunchtime. I was hit so hard, my hands were swollen. I didn't talk. I figured something I did was wrong. Riess: You thought to be strong would be good. 33 Domoto: A boy was not supposed to cry. A woman would cry, but no matter if I was hurt, I was not supposed to cry. That was being a silly kid, that's the way we were taught. Riess: That's the same in Japan as it is anywhere else, that stoicism for boys. Domoto: Yes. And even in European countries. If you're a cry-baby, why, you're a sissy. Riess: Would your father have been angry if he had heard about all this? Domoto: No. Family discipline was left up to my mother. I guess we followed the same way. If it was a matter of discipline that she couldn't handle, or something that she thought that my father could do better, she'd say, "Go see Papa." We knew we'd better shut up. Riess : Did your parents spank you? Domoto: I don't remember. In fact, in the big family if my sisters got into a fight Mother would get them together and she'd whack them on the bottom, and then afterwards she'd make them sit down and find out what the trouble was about. We used to say, "I'd rather get a whack on the back than listen to her talk." [laughter] A lot of things you have to learn the hard way. When we were kids , there was this creek running through the place , and a weed that was called wormwood would grow there. We used to roll that up like cigarettes, smoke it. And then I would see my dad smoking a cigar. "Hey, that looks so good." One day, he was out, I knew he was in the nursery. I picked one up, sitting in the living room there--. It didn't taste so good. I don't see how he enjoyed it. In my mind, I still remember it. I didn't hear him come in. So he said, "Oh, don't stop, enjoy it." I don't know if I ever finished it. I think I got sicker than a dog. [laughter] Riess: Very smart! Domoto: He used to smoke quite a bit in those days. Riess: Just cigars? Domoto: No. Well, cigars, only occasionally. You rolled your own, the one called Pedro, used to be you'd get little cans of tobacco. So he used to roll them up and smoke quite a bit. But that was the only time- -I never had any more inclination to smoke. 32a Lockwood School Graduation Progran PROGRAM Verdi OVERTURE— "Rigoletto" Lockwood Band PROCESSIONAL INVOCATION • • Rev. Griffith Griffilhs RESPONSE - • • Graduating Class SALUTATORY • • • Gladys Lefler BASS MELODY— "The Mighty Deep" • Jude Bassoon, John Deasy Helicon, Ferris Wallace Adam Kirlh Sullivan Lang Motherwcll PROPHECY - • - CLASS CHORUS— (a) "Pirate Chorus (b) "White Butterflies" (c) "Gipsy Camp" - ADDRESS - - • Mr. Robert Robertson DOUBLE QUARTETTE • Pastoral-French VALEDICTORY • - - Alice Guild RESPONSE .... Emma Mattos BARITONE SOLO— "Miserere" from "II- Trovatore" James Thompson PRESENTATION OF DIPLOMAS— Principal C. H. Greenman RECESSIONAL GRADUATES FRED DALE ARCHER GEORGETTE MARY BAS HAZEL HANNAH BURROWS NORMA GRACE BOSCACCI MARY CATHERINE CEDZO ARABELLA HARRIETT CARTER EUGENIE CLAIRE COMBATALADE STANLEY ALEXANDER COOKSON JOHN HEXRY DEASY TOICHI DOMOTO ALICE GUILD AURORA MARGARET GUSTA ASTA IDA HARRISON FRED CLARE HUTCHIXS ADAM JOSEPH KIRTH GLADYS VIOLET LEFLER ROSE 11ULLER PHILOMENA DOROTHY MATTHEWS CHARLES LE BRETON PLAMBKCK ANDREW REUBEN RASMUSSEN ALVIXA SCHMIDT MAX JOSEPH SCHMIDT LAURA BEATRICE SEARS ARTHUR SIMPSON- JAMES THOMPSON CHARLES WESLEY THOMPSON RALPH FRANCIS VICTOR FERRIS WAYNE WALLACE CHARLES OWEN WALKER Toichl Domoto, upper right, with his graduating class, Lockwood Intermediate School, 1917. 34 Nicotine Use in the Nursery Domoto: The other thing that relates to nicotine is we used to have a big greenhouse full of palm, and about once or twice a year we'd have to go into and spray that with whale oil soap and nicotine. When I was in my teens then, I didn't do the spraying, but the nan who was spraying would be right next to the palm trees and spray under this and that, and move on, turn the plants over and move on down the line. I used to pull the hose for him. Along about noon, I didn't feel so good. But the man that was spraying, he took the job because he was a regular cigarette smoker. He said, "No problem." Then I guess around noon he went outside and never came back, so I went to look for him. He was sprawled out on the ground from inhaling too much of the nicotine. Riess: [laughter] Out cold? Domoto: Yes. I knew I didn't feel good, but it never knocked me out. Riess: When did they stop using that combination? Domoto: As far as going to the greenhouse and spraying, that wasn't until a much, much later date. And also Blackleaf 40 came in, which is the nicotine extract. Before that, the wagon that used to go to San Francisco with the flowers, about once a month, or once maybe every six months or so, the cigar factory in San Francisco would have the stems that they pulled off when they made these cigars. So then they'd come back with a wagon full of stems, and we used to have them in a big shed. Then we would put that in the greenhouse, pile it, soak it a little bit, and then light it and let it smoulder. That was the fumigation for aphids control in the greenhouse. Riess: That sounds kind of good, actually, if you stayed away from it. Domoto: After I knew more about it- -I think sometimes the [control] was more not from the nicotine, but from the smoke. We would light it and then go out and leave it until the next morning, and open it up. It wasn't until much later that Blackleaf 40 came in. Even then, they used to make a sulfur paste and put it on the steam pipes, and when the steam was turned on, the sulfur would burn, and that was for mildew. Then at the same time I'd put two drops of Blackleaf 40 in the pipes, and that would evaporate. 35 Riess: These remedies for mildew and blight and fungus and all that, how were they known? Domoto: The agricultural experiment stations. Riess: Oh, you were getting advice from local agricultural experts? Domoto: Yes. Inspectors would come out and they'd tell us what to use. Even cyanide fumigation in the nursery, that stopped when the commercial fumigators started. Then we used to have to send to a place in San Francisco where they used to do the commercial fumigation. Riess: So these are not old home remedies? These were what everyone was using at the time? Domoto: Yes, at the time. The Blackleaf 40 was probably the first of the insecticides. Then for a while, pyrethrum powder came into prominence. Then there was a time when controlling ants, we had to mix honey and I forget what other ingredients for ant control. Discrimination in Plant Inspection Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: I want to talk about the kind of help you got over the years from the agricultural services in California. That sounds like an interesting subject. In the early days, dealing with importing, it was mostly just a routine examination. But some of it I think was discriminatory. I can't prove it for sure. You were talking about the chestnuts. Now, would that have been an example? I think so. But there was a period in this country of chestnut blight, wasn't there? Yes. Oh, that probably could have happened because of that blight. They didn't want any more coming in. Did it make a difference whether it was coming in from Japan or Holland, or was it the fact that it was coming in to a Japanese merchant? 36 Domoto: No. The type of plant that was coming from Europe, Holland were mostly tulip bulbs. That was the main crop from Holland. Belgium used to export azaleas , araucarias , boxwoods , and bay trees . Those were the main things that used to come in from Belgium. Riess: But would the inspectors attack that kind of an import if you were receiving it? Domoto: No, most of the other things would be- -if they were looking for scale and other things, I think they- -all of them were treated pretty even. But locally, just about in that era of change, we used to grow- -my father grew cut flowers, like mainly roses. By that time the chrysanthemum growers and the carnation growers , the earlier generation all went on their own. That's when the cheesecloth houses started over towards San Mateo County. Shade houses, that's when that got started. Before that my dad was growing roses in all of his greenhouses. Going back to how they [discriminated] - -cyclamen and primrose, those were the main things for pot plants. At that time, mealy bugs were the main pests they were looking out for. I know a couple of times, having made some shipment down to, I think, a florist in Fresno or something, they came back, the crate wasn't even opened up. They said, "Infested with mealy bugs." We couldn't find any on it, but they said it was. I know Dad said, "I can't see how they can inspect it without taking the burlap covering off. " That was I think probably discriminatory, because the agricultural inspector knew someone down there--. Their family, I think the grandsons, used to be in the florist business. The agricultural commissioner had a flower shop in Oakland. The buyers from San Francisco would come over early and order a block of poinsettias, so they would get the first choice out of the block we had, because they used to buy the biggest quantity. But then this one from Oakland would come in, and he would want so many number ones, number twos. He said, "I want it out of this block." "Well, that's sold." "But I want those." And if he didn't get them--. I know that was true, because the deputy that came out was either a son-in-law or a brother-in- law, and he didn't know a damn thing about inspecting anything. He had the whole greenhouse condemned until we got in touch with a federal inspector to come over. He [the local inspector] saw the spores on the back of the Boston ferns, and he thought he had to condemn the whole house ! Riess: Oh, that's stupid! 37 Domoto: Well, that's your political job. See, now, they have to pass an examination to be an agricultural inspector, but those days, especially at the county level, why, it was all a political job. I know we did have nealy bug at certain times, but most of the foreign plants, even though people had it, most of the inspectors would let it go because as soon as the flowers are gone, the plants are gone. But in this particular case it was just a box of plants in there, crated with burlap, and if the burlap had been ripped open or tacked off to inspect it, they could see--. And the plants, we were very careful to make sure that they didn't have any on there. I don't have any theories, but I remember those things that I knew were happening. Riess: I wondered if you could remember any times when it was made clear to you that if you gave them a favor, that they would overlook something? Domoto: No. Nothing that way. The only pressure was-- Riess: Just to sell them the best plants. Domoto: Yes. I don't think in any case there was any definite attempt to do what in our present day we would call bribe. It was just the pressure brought to us indirectly that way. I think cut flower-wise, during the war [World War II], there were some cases in the beginning of the war of open expression of anti-- [Japanese feelings]. Riess: You referred to the time of the quarantine. In an article that I read about Domoto Bros., Inc., it referred to importing quantities of English laurel and other laurels and boxwoods, all trained to shape, and that was the last real major shipment, for the Panama- Pacific Exposition. Domoto: Yes. That was when the last ones came in. Kurume Azaleas Domoto: The Kurume azaleas and aspidistras- -almost any of the ornamental plants that could come from Japan, the war was on, and the quarantine was already going into effect- -wasn' t effective yet, but there was no way of getting the plants from Japan to here because of the war. At that time Mr. [Charles W. ] Ward, who was president of Cottage Garden Nursery back in Long Island, he told 38 my dad, "When you are in Japan, you buy all the plants you can get. I'll take care of the permits.* Getting the permits to bring them in. That meant getting the permit to ship on board, not so much the plants, but cargo [permits]. He would get the permits, and Dad would buy all the plants that he could to bring over here. They were talking about Quarantine 37 going in. He would get them in before the quarantine went in. What they did was, they would divide the shipment in half, the costs would be divided in half. The plants would be divided half to Cottage Gardens, and half to us. The Cottage Gardens half, most of it was shipped to Eureka, California, where Cottage Garden had started a nursery there. Then they in turn shipped part of theirs back to the Queens, Long Island Nursery, and they divided some of the azalea plants there, between Henry [A.] Dreer in Philadelphia, and Bobink & Atkins. Riess: Had your father been doing business with Ward for a long time? Domoto: Oh, yes, and I remember Vard. He used to come out and buy plants. It came out in a scandal sheet, and I remember reading--. Actually, he was rather a playboy, and they sent him out to California because they didn't want him around the nursery there [Long Island] . His idea was they would start this bulb farm up in southern Washington and a nursery in Eureka. Private property. There they would grow azalea plants . They would train boxwood- - azaleas, boxwood, and a few bay trees, and araucaria. Those four items that would grow in Eureka. And rhododendron. Eventually, they got rid of the boxwood and just grew azaleas and rhododendron . Mr. Ward used to come out to the nursery in a chauffeur- driven car, and I could never- -being a youngster and not too well acquainted with worldly ways- -could never understand why he had two or three good-looking women with him in the car all the time, [laughter] He was a womanizer, I guess. Riess: Did your father enlighten you? Domoto: No, he didn't say anything. He'd come and talk to my dad about what he wanted and what he got , so we ' d divide the plants . I guess two or three times he would come out with a woman. The only other womanizer -type I remember, I think he was from the Talbot family. What is now Knowland Park, that area, I think it used to belong to the Talbot family. They used to come to the nursery to buy plants, and his bride--! remember her as being tall 39 and good-looking, but in the day tine she seemed to have an awful lot of paint, and I couldn't figure out why she was painted up. Then later, when I got older, I found out that she was a chorus girl! 40 IV BONSAI, AND ROSES AND BEETLES [Interview 2: July 29, 1992] ## Domoto: [looking at bonsais on the table where the interview is taking place] If you are at table-height [when you are looking at a bonsai], you're probably at about a third or fourth of the way up. In my pruning I feel --the big trees, you never look down on a big tree unless you're in an airplane, you're always looking up. So if you're trying to miniaturize it, you should imagine it as seen from the ground level, looking up. But in all the pictures -- [pause, looking through book] See there? Riess: The angle is down, yes. Domoto: Yes. Evidently, according to this article, if they're working on the plant, they're supposed to be training to a triangle. Riess: These are changing styles? Domoto: Definitely. I was surprised. Mr. [Dick] Derr is Chinese, and they have a book in Chinese- - this book just came out, and I had a glance at it last week- -their style is a lot more severe right now. That is, instead of being full, the branches show very distinctly. Riess: That's what I see here, a lot of layers. Domoto: Yes. They show the layers and you see the branches. That was, I'd say, maybe about twenty years ago, the style of twenty years ago. Riess: So they're returning to that style? Domoto: Depends on where they're coming from. Whereas the Japanese ones, they were quite old and well -shaped- -though now, they tell you the "quickie" way of doing it. 41 Riess: Domoto: The trees are a lot younger in the Chinese ones. But they take an old stump or a stem or a root and graft a young stem on there, and then instead of waiting for the young stem to grow, they start twisting the young stem right away, and so the stump is visible. It looks all right, but when you know the age and everything, why, you see what you're camouflaging. [Mr. Domoto, when this and some of the following passages are read back to him, is distressed that the average reader will not be able to make sense of what the fine distinctions are in different styles of bonsai.] Everyone has a different idea. Commercially, if they put too much time in it, and they have to make it commercially pay, they can't do it. So everything is hurry up, in order to make it pay. And then the buying public doesn't know, so the result is that they can get by with murder. But you would know? Oh, I could tell what I like, and what amount of work it's taken, and what was camouflaged. But then, most of the others wouldn't know. Because, unless they know how much work is on there--. Like I haven't seen the ones now, but Mr. Djer--he's not a bonsai expert or anything, he just likes plants, he works for AT&T- -he tells me about the new Korean nursery that has opened down near San Martin, and they're importing plants from China, and pots from China. They copy the Japanese pots, but they're softer temper, so they are able to sell them a lot cheaper. The glaze isn't as good, but for the novice who doesn't know, it's a bonsai pot. Domoto: Bonsai is increasing in popularity- -that's why you see all the magazines and books coming out. But it takes a lot of time and patience, and not everybody has that. It's like any craze--I'd say it was a craze . Eventually you find some group that has patience enough to work with it, a group develops. But right now it's like any new fad that comes along, like cars, or anything that pertains to life. It's a difference in the nature of the person. When you get so you can't move around too much, and you have a feeling for certain plants, and you're working with it, and you're not worrying about making anything out of it, but just for the fun of working with it, to see how it evolves--. One grower over on the San Mateo side, we were talking one day at a bonsai show. He used to be a chrysanthemum grower, and 42 he retired from that, so he was working with bonsai, and he had some pretty nice little ones. At that show they had a section that they called suisaki or water rock culture, rock display. They go out to the different areas , rivers , and collect rocks in certain forms that they imagine look like a mountain or oceanside, and they make nice little stands for it. And that's another hobby in itself. I said, "Gee, how'd you get into rocks? From chrysanthemum to bonsai to rocks?" He said, "Well, I'm getting older. And I can't always get out to work on my plants, and nobody else will do it for me. And rocks," he said, "I don't have to water. And yet I can reminisce where I picked it up, or where 1 got it. Memories of happy moments get reflected back from the rock." Riess: That's lovely. It's interesting that you say bonsai has reached a new popularity now. Yet, you were offering bonsai in 1940, in the nursery. They were left from your father's stock? Domoto: Some were, a few, but most we were starting to grow here. Riess: Did you start them? Or did you buy them? Domoto: No, there weren't any to buy, unless some person had some and wanted to sell some extra. I was getting one of the gardeners who was supposed to know something about it do the training for me. Riess: One of your employees? Domoto: Or our outside gardeners, whoever. Riess: Did you start any from seed? Domoto: No, very little from seed. Although I did later. The early part, I started buying mostly young plants that were already started, like what we call liner cuttings, one or two-year old seedlings. L-i-n-e-r-s. It means they were ready to line out in a row. Riess: Did you ever buy from those people who go dig out old naturally - bonsaied plants in the Sierra? Domoto: No, that's much later. Probably after the war. We were more into getting the landscape -size trees. That's why some of these trees I had, they were kind of Or iental- shape . But bonsai actually are supposed to be small. 43 Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: I have seen you posed beside a two-hundred-year-old Japanese maple in a tub. What is the history of that tree? That came in 1913 from Japan, [looking at picture] That's up at the Veyerhauser Pacific Basin Bonsai Collection. How old is that tree? Well, when it came in 1913 from Japan for the 1915 Fair it came that way, in a terra cotta pot. The age --someone used to say, oh, it was about two hundred years old, and someone said one hundred. When the top of it died I had to cut it off, cut it down to where it looked clear, and stabilize it. A professor at Berkeley came to look at the plant. He asked me what I was going to do with the branch that was cut, and I said I didn't know I was going to do anything, but it had enough of an interesting shape that I might do something. He said, "Could I have it?" I said, "Sure, what do you want to do with it?" I thought he wanted to do like I did, train something else on it. He said, "I want to count the rings." So he took it, and he said as near as he could find out- -he said actually, the annual rings are not always true because sometimes it doubles up- -but as near as he could figure it was between seventy- five to eighty years old, way up there at the top. The crown- - [laughs] it's like a bald-headed man, but with hair [brushed] back over. This [in picture] is the crown from the other side, covering it. So I would judge that must be now at least two hundred years old. When you were relocated during the war, Peter Milan kept these Oriental -shaped landscape trees going? Yes, it was just a matter of keeping them watered. So if some of them lost their shape, it was just a matter that 1 had to get someone to come and re -prune it and shape it. They were really not bonsai -shaped. They were more like irregularly- shaped plants. A bonsai issue of the California Horticultural Journal came out in 1960 [Volume XXI, April-June I960]. Yes, that was really the beginning. In fact, I think it was Harriet Agard, she was one of the first of the group that had some plants that were really nice . She used to come out and look around, and if she would find a small one, she would buy a small plant to work on. 44 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Would the plant already have started to take a shape? Some have, some haven't. They all would ask me what shape, and usually it was no shape at all. Oh, some would adhere to one of several styles of bonsai. If a branch was growing a certain way, branching, I would utilize that natural growth there and try to make it as close to that as possible. Obviously if it was growing with no shape at all 1 just let it grow. If they would ask me what style, "I don't know." Like all these plants here, they're not any style. Just let them grow like Eva- -what is it, "grow like Topsy?" But you would have made a first couple of cuts? No, most of the cuts are later, grow out and show something. When they were in the liners? They come after they started to When I started to get liners, that was when I used to have, like some of the bonsai people, the gardeners doing bonsai, come in and train those for a quick sale , the small plants . Of course they weren't bonsai people either, they had just had a little artistic skill in the garden, and they'd come and work. And with the main part of the business I didn't have the time to do that. What kind of gardeners were these? Just gardeners , taking care of yards and things , and that was part of their hobby. Mr. H. Iseyama, whose garden is shown in this 1960 magazine, was he a friend? I think he was a graduate of the University of Japan., and also a teacher, teaching art in Japan. He was quite an artist besides. And he was one of the- -not the first of the ones making Japanese gardens, I think he was a little later era. But I think he was probably the first one that really started a bonsai study group, and he used to have people come to his home and he gave them lessons in bonsai. He started some of my big trees, planting them out, showing me how to get started. So he had something to offer you. He didn't have any plants to offer. But his skill and his art. In fact when I really got to know him, that was the period- -you probably remember- -when the florists used to carry all kinds of 45 ivy? I call it the "ivy rage," when everybody collected different kinds of ivy. At that time they were looking for different shapes, not just plain hanging. So then I got an idea of foraing the ivy in the bonsai shape. My first form was using five strands of baling wire and then twisting it to get branches, three or four or five tiers up. It was rather crude, but then when I told Mr. Iseyama, he designed one for me. I had some frames made up by a wireworks, and I trained Hahn's ivy, that small-leaf ivy, and grew them in the greenhouse. I think the first ones I grew- -I didn't grow very many- -I sold them all to Podesta's. They took the first bunch--! think the first year they showed them here- -back to New York for the flower show back there, Macy's. Podesta used to do the Macy's show. Riess: The New York Macy's show? Domoto: Yes. They started out here, and then Macy's wanted them to do the show back there for them. They were doing the work here and then they would go back and supervise the flower show there . Riess: How big were the trained ivy plants? Domoto: Oh, they were small, nothing big. Although there were some --there was a fellow down in southern California, Japanese, but his was not bonsai, it was more topiary. He had the ivy in shapes of animals. Some of them were three feet, and some of them were larger. When Podesta's wanted to buy some from him to take to that show back there he wouldn't [was not equipped to] pack and ship them, so he trucked them up here to me to combine with the plants that I had sold to them to go to New York. That's how I happened to see these plants . Riess: Did that take off as a sideline for you? Domoto: Oh, it was a one-time interest. Riess: We were tracking the bonsai craze. It has increased since 1960? Domoto: Oh, yes. [shows interviewer a stack of the magazine, Bonsai Todavl . This is a monthly. What number is this? Riess: Twenty -one. Domoto: Twenty-one would be about two years. It was a small magazine back there, and this man bought the magazine and has been publishing it 46 since. Actually, within the last ten years it is really becoming of more popular interest. Riess: I see that the original edition of Bonsai Today is from Kyoto. Do they reproduce it? Domoto: A lot of the pictures are reproduced, and some of the pages. Translated into English. You'll see here, the thing that happens, almost all the nice- looking trees, they [the captions for the magazines] all state the age. That's because the popular belief is--. The first thing they ask, if it looks kind of good is, "How old is that tree?" That's the first question novices will ask, because they have been stressing the age of these specimens that they have. So everybody thinks that age has to be good. Mr. Iseyama, at a Hort meeting, he was demonstrating with a cedar. And during the demonstration somebody asked, "Mr. Iseyama, how old is that tree?" He didn't answer her. Then whoever was down there in the audience at the time asked, "Mr. Iseyama, this lady wants to know how old is that tree?" And Mr. Iseyama said, "When you see a beautiful woman walking down the street, do you go up to her and ask, 'How old are you?'" [laughs] I think that was the best answer. When a customer comes in and asks how old is a tree I relate that story to them. Age is there, but the beauty is not the age, it's the shape of the thing you're looking at. If you're looking for age, you can go out and buy a big old stump. Riess: Or go see the ancient bristle-cone pines that I saw about a month ago at 10,000 feet in the Eastern Sierra. Domoto: But you know, the bristle -cone pines, some of the seedlings that are growing stunted, those are runts of the ones that they go out and try to collect- -if they can get a place where it's not a national park or something, and then try to establish that. In southern California, not the pines so much, because pines are hard to move, but the junipers, both in southern California and in northern California, junipers, they've been collecting those, and they've found some big old plants, weather-worn, and they've been working with those. Riess: Like looking for pearls in oysters. Domoto: Yeah, same idea. And at first, everything you find is good, but later you find out that when you bring it all home, you wonder, 47 "Why the hell did I bring this thing back? with it at the time. " You are so enthused Actually, the collecting of the native trees started in northern California, and then the southern California group took it over, and they went to the foothills there, the hills, to get these things. And more lately I understand that they used to have hunting trips or digging trips, and they organize the group, and they pack in and they get all the plants back—one expedition they had where they had a helicopter come in and bring the plants out for them, so that they could be brought back and taken care of right away. And they would pack in and pack out. Riess: Was that partly that they didn't want anyone to see their loot? Domoto: No, it was, if you have to pack in these plants, how many can you pack out? Actually, the fellows that are going in, most of them are middle-aged or older, and to pack in their own food and tools, and to try to bring the plants out--. They probably couldn't bring more than one or two plants out. Riess: I wonder how many people who buy bonsai become true students of bonsai. Domoto: I think you could get one out of a hundred. That's my guess, that really stick with it. Most others, they come and buy one, they see it, it looks good, go and buy it for a friend or somebody for a gift, not knowing whether they like that or not. Riess: Would you ever discourage someone? Domoto: Yes. I try not to do much retailing, it's too hard. But some of them that come, I ask them, "Where do you want it, for indoors or outdoors?" If they say, "Indoors," I say, "Well, you can't keep it indoors forever." Then if they still want it, I try to discourage them of it. Quite often you get a novice who's just starting, and is all enthused after seeing a bonsai show, and I say, "Well, before you get too far into it, first what kind of plants do you like?" You have to make up your mind what you like: do you like a conifer, or deciduous tree, or shade tree? Or grasses, and so forth? And also whether you like small plants or larger plants to work with. Then after they make up their mind, then see what particular plants you like to work with. Don't try to be a master of all of 48 them. You can't. It's just like being an artist. You're either a modernist or a surrealist or cubist or whatever. Riess: Do your customers stay in touch with you, then, after you make that contact with them? Domoto: Some come back. I have ones that keep coming back maybe every other year to buy material. But others, most of them just- -I'd say the average are one-time deals. Of course, I don't advertise I have bonsai, because that's more or less the last thing I started to do after I got out of the general nursery business. Riess: What is most of the business here now? Domoto: Nothing. Just getting rid of the stock I have. I'm not buying anything, I'm not even propagating. If someone wants to give me a rare cutting or something like that, which in the past I would grab at, right now I just cut that out all together. Riess: How many people come in because they see your sign? Domoto: I discourage that. I don't have the energy to teach them, to go around. Once in a while some come out, someone who really knows bonsai, and then they'll either bring them [other visitors] out or something like that. But otherwise, retail-wise- -before, we didn't have that many people interested in bonsai. But now they go to a bonsai show, or read a magazine. Even the state fairs, county fairs, they have a bonsai section now. When it first started, there was just- -like the Alameda County Horticultural Society would have one section at the fair, at the Oakland Garden Show, and that was like someone who would exhibit a fern or geranium, whatever, the bonsai was Just like one of those. I think the first show they held in the Exposition Building in Oakland is when they had really one section devoted to bonsai. That was I think Jack Dutra. Riess: When was that? Domoto: It was soon after the Exposition Building was finished. I think it was about the first or second show that they had there. That was in the days when Howard Gilkey was the designer for the shows. Riess: Well before the war. Domoto: Oh, yes. That must have been in the twenties, I guess. And then the background--. They set up a table, and that's the first time they set up a background, a neutral background, 49 designed by I think Henry Matsutani, who was a landscape man. He designed the backdrop, and that was the first exhibit that the Garden Club of America awarded a prize to [in] a garden show west of the Mississippi. Riess: It was the first time that bonsai had been displayed in a way that showed that they stood by themselves? Domoto: Yes, especially in enough of a quantity to appreciate as such. They had been in a few other little exhibits, like in their own room where the club members were showing it. But that was the first one I'd seen where they really had a real display as such, as far as I know around here. They may have had some in southern California, but I think ours was the first, I guess it was, with the Garden Club of America giving out a trophy or medal or whatever they awarded, to an exhibit like that, associating themselves with it. • Riess: After Japan, and China, is America the first country where bonsai has been practiced? Or did it go from Japan to other countries? Domoto: I think the European countries probably before US. Riess: There are some Swiss practitioners. Domoto: I think within the last, say, five years even, it's getting more international. Even the plants that my dad used to import from Japan for sale weren't brought in on a large scale. The few that were brought in used to go to New York for sale. Riess: Yuur father was importing fully-grown bonsai? Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Not fully- -mostly the smaller ones. And then most of them were cedars . The cedars were the most popular after the Chamaecyparis . But how many years of growth would they have on them? Oh, they were well -trained plants. Which would mean about how many years? Maybe the youngest one would probably be at least three or four years, the smaller --the younger plants. And the bigger ones, they were probably ten or fifteen years old. But even those, the ones that he got in, they weren't real big. The biggest ones probably would stand about table height. It wasn't until the time of the 19 Fair that we brought the real big trees In, and that was brought in for the fair. 50 Riess : Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Do you think that in the early days when people were purchasing these trees, that they also- -how much of the "mysterious East" did they think that they were going to get with it? Importing plants from Japan really stopped in '17 with the quarantine. Quarantine 37 went into effect right after War I. Then no more big plants coming in, nothing larger than eighteen inches. And they had to be plants that weren't too old, young plants, and they had to be brought in bare root and fumigated. That was just to get stock plants in for propagating. Bonsai plants, plants shaped like bonsai, [were] almost impossible to bring in. You could bring it on on a permit, but the chances of survival were kind of poor. I didn't ask my question right. I was asking more whether when someone buys a bonsai- -it doesn't make any difference whether it's grown here or there- -are they buying it because of an intrigue about Japan? No. I'd say it has nothing to do with East or Vest or south or north, it's getting to be international now. And the public itself, in fact even some of the commentators, didn't know the difference between bonsai and banzai! See, that's the era. It's only within the last- -when these publications have been coming out- -probably twenty years, they've started to talk about it. To do bonsai, you have to have a state of mind, state of mind thing that I'm talking about. And it's that Well, that's not racial. It would be just an artist, whether he's American, English, German, Japanese, Chinese, a person who has the artistic--! don't necessarily say artistic, but eye for proper proportion, to create or see something that's pleasing to the eye. And not to rush. Well, that part comes later. If you don't have the patience you might as well forget the bonsai, and grow annuals so you can go from seed to flower in six months, and that's it. What if someone came to your nursery and you asked them what they liked, and they said they liked roses? Well, they can get roses. And even rose bushes, if they wanted to make bonsais out of them, they can. But it's going to take a lot more work. Now we have those miniature roses, and you can work those up into a shape. But a rose, every time it flowers you've got to prune it back. Whereas a conifer you keep shaping one way, 51 Riess: Domoto: roses, even if they're not that small, they have to be treated just the sane as you'd do there in the garden, and prune them. I would say, except for the fact you get flowers to show, it's harder to- -well, I've seen one magazine that I think says something about pruning bonsai with roses. But I haven't seen any except the miniatures that really looked like a- -they used to show them in the flower shows at the nursery garden, in tubs or pots. You don't see any more now, but in the past, for Easter, we used to have these roses that were trained into a ball? I don't know if you remember those or not. And there used to be the Perkins rose, a climber, that we used to twist around this way or this way. [demonstrates] So it's like one big bouquet? Yes, or more like a sphere. There were some pyramids, but most of them were spheres , because the rose would be hard to make a cone out of it. They were mostly the small Perkins type, small multiflora type of roses. They were trained, and then forced for Easter. That used to take time, and I don't think--! haven't seen any of those anymore. They went out with cost and handling. Then they got to forcing the regular hybrid teas, and they're showing them. But you see, your rose show here by the clubs right now are mostly individual flowers that they're showing. Then they have a test garden, to show which variety will do well in that area. Outside of a few new ones that they will show, it's more of a bud vase show, where the individual flowers, or maybe a group of three or a dozen flowers of a variety will be shown. Roses as such in a garden, you don't have so much specimens. You have a rose garden, you have a bed of roses. Riess: Did you ever handle roses? Domoto: Yes. Not here, but when I started. That was the time when the Talisman rose first came out. That was the orange tri- color, copper-colored, very spectacular at that time, one of the first of the hybrids that came out. Everybody liked the flowers, so I grew some of those just sort of as pot plants. Most of it as pot plants. But outside of that they don't--! think that was about the only rose I was growing in my place here . My folks, in Oakland, we used to buy these dormant roses for the garden sale. Dormant roses generally, like Talisman, were bought for one spring sale, like Easter, and we used to train the roses for Easter. But most of the roses in the greenhouse were for cut flowers. 52 Riess: Roses have lots of problems. Domoto: Veil, it's such with anything else that you grow. Riess: [laughs] One of my summer jobs was removing Japanese beetles from our roses in Pennsylvania. How did the Japanese beetle get to this country? Domoto: Probably came in on some plants or something. They say that it may have come in when the plants were imported with soil intact, the ball. I never followed up on that. There are different versions of how it might have come in. Riess: It's a beautiful, hard, green beetle. Domoto: Oh, as far as beetles, I think if a person is interested in collecting beetles, they're the most interesting of insects. Even more beautiful than the butterflies. Butterflies are spectacular, but little beetles, their colored designs are a lot more interesting. Riess: That's a good attitude for a nurseryman, too. [laughs] Domoto: Well, nature — the thing you like, it might be a pest, but it's part of- -if I had just gone from the nursery without having had to take a course in entomology I probably wouldn't notice the details of a beetle. But in college we had to take one basic science course, and the one I went into was entomology. And they had good professors, and the class was small, so we had to collect all different kinds of insects and then mount them for a semester program. A lot of them went in for butterflies, and I liked the butterflies fine, I used to pin them up too, but when I started to see the different collections of beetles that they had at Stanford, especially even some of them you had to look under glass to see the color, I said, "Well, that's a lot easier. I don't need a big box. I can just have a bunch of them on a small tray." I used to know the different families or species. I've forgotten all those. I remember the markings of most of the beetles. Riess: It sounds like an important class to take for someone interested in horticulture, because it's an important relationship, beetle and plant. Doraoto: These days, they don't spend that much time. They might have a general course in whatever, gardening, they go into, and all they have to know is whether it's a flying insect or a burrowing insect or a beetle, or whatever. 53 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Or they might even get more simple-minded and say whether it's a good one or a bad one. That's basic, whether it's a harmful or non-harmful. And then the next thing is, how you control it, if they're going into a nursery. So that they might now- -you bring a sample in and ask them, they should know whether it's a beetle or a sucking insect or something else, and know what spray to sell. But even the sprays are getting more general, so the buyer doesn't have to know- -Just spray it, and it's an all-purpose spray. I have been fighting strawberry root weevil, and the books say that they're practically impossible to eradicate. In fact I finally had to give the plant up, because I couldn't fight it. Well, you can, but you have to be persistent. I fought it by taking the individual beetles off, but I had no way of dealing with the larval stage. No. You have to control the beetles as they emerge and get them at that stage. If you decimate the adult population, then you don't have any more eggs or whatever comes. We used to have trouble with that, with camellias, and azaleas and rhododendron, they would girdle the bark on the stem. And as soon as that girdling was complete, the tree would go. My dad used to raise both azaleas and camellias in the ground, and we trie'd sprays and that, but it didn't do much good. Finally, the only thing was just to hand-pick them. I got so that-- ff You said he was paying you so much a bug for these . And then I found out that they only emerged from the ground up into the trees or the bushes about just after dusk, around seven o'clock. By ten o'clock they had gone back into the ground again. So I used to take a flashlight and go .out there, pick them up in a can. Like on the camellias and azaleas, they'd eat the perimeter of the leaf, and if there was a full moon scallop on the end, you'd know that you had the beetle. If it was a big scallop, you'd know it was a cutworm. But if there was only a half -moon around the edge, real dainty, you had that. So you had to go and instead of trying to catch them on the top, put your hands underneath them before you try to grab them. Otherwise, they drop to the ground, and you won't find them. Because most bugs, when they hit the ground, they try to scatter. If they drop, they just 54 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: stay there, and they're the same color as the soil at night, and you can't find them. My neighbors have seen me out at night, in the dark, in my nightgown, with the flashlight! Yes. You're nuts! And it's still a kind of a last-ditch effort. Yes. But if you keep at it for several years, the population doesn't increase. And then, gradually it decreases, and then [combining] that with spraying something on the foliage, something that they eat, it would poison them. But it's hard to get the spray on the foliage, and I forget what the spray was, but it kind of discolored, like the camellia or rhododendron, the foliage; if you spray it, customers wouldn't buy it, because it had the spray on it. Is my notion correct that if the conditions are really good for a plant, and it is really healthy, that it is not vulnerable to strawberry root weevils? Oh, they'll thrive more! It's a matter of food. Sure, because they have more to eat. But scale, for instance, only comes on a sick plant, doesn't it? No. The plant gets sick because the scale is on there. It's the other way around. Any foliage or vegetative matter, whatever it is the insects or pests want, they like the most lush, just like human be ings . The plant may go into distress because it gets dry, or the insect starts disturbing some part of the structure, either the foliage or stem or root. Then if the plant looks kind of distressed, and you look and you find insects, you blame the insects, but [the real cause was] you might have allowed the plant to get dry in the first place. Before the machine was on we were talking about this tree on the table, and I want you to describe it for the tape recorder. Tell me what it is. You said it was not a Norway spruce? It's a cultivar. I think it's listed in the catalogues as a dwarf Norway spruce. fPicea alberliana conical Riess: Did you start it from a cutting? 55 Domoto: No. We used to buy those In the Northwest. This is one of the dwarf conifers we used to buy for gardeners. And still, in some of the older gardens, they will be a very even cone shape, and very compact. In fact, I have a couple of them. I think you noticed the last time in the first section of the trees we have one there. It's about this high. Riess: About five feet. Domoto: Four or five feet. It's a very slow grower, and it more or less makes a natural cone. The only difference [with this bonsai] is I just thinned out the branches to open it, so instead of being a full tree it gives more of a feeling of age when you see the trunk . Riess: And the two spurs? Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess : Domoto: I was trying to make a grove, and one of them is dead. I think this one's surviving. It's like that big redwood seedling out there in the garden. That's a good example. They both started off the same, but one got all the nourishment. You know, sometimes in a multi- trunk deal they'll strip one branch to make it look like a tree that's been struck by lightning or something, so that you have a live tree and dead tree. I thought that was what you were trying to do here. No, not actually. It was accidental-- [laughs] incidental to trying to hurry up and get a grove of three growing again. That's part of what I'm talking about, about the mystery of it. I would just assume that everything that is there is exactly what you intended, but you're saying to me, not quite. No. Because you work with plants--. If you're an artist, you can sketch it, and if you don't like it, you can blot it out. Plants, you can't do that with, you just have to wait for it to grow. And the other, of course, even if you plant a bunch of seedlings together, it's like people with children. You can have triplets, all the same mother and father, and yet they can have different sizes, different habits. Trees are the same way. Even though they're the same species, one starts growing faster. What are all the tags that are hanging from this plant? Oh, I put that on at the time when I transplant it or when I first prune it, or feed it, so I know what has been done. When you have a lot of them, you can't remember what you did when. While I was 56 doing a lot of pruning I'd use a certain color tag, and I knew that was the spring pruning or summer pruning. Like now I'm pruning some junipers, and it's really too late now for the spring pruning but I just have to do it when I have a chance to do it. Riess: You have to think about seasons when you have bonsai? Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Oh, definitely. For instance, a flowering tree, if you prune at the wrong time you're cutting the flowers off, so you don't get any flowers. If you prune it too late, you only get the new growth, so you don't refurbish. And if you transplant at the wrong time you'll either have a setback or it will die. So you have to be a plantsman besides just shaping. You can't assume that because you've taken over the life of this tree, that it's not going to hear the call of nature? Well, generally, in the animal world, suppose you buy a young puppy. Someone tells you when to feed it, how much to feed it, when to worm it and all that. But you don't know the basics behind it, how it was bred or anything like that. You Just got a puppy, and if you have time with it you'll probably train it to fetch the ball or something, or get the paper. And the trees are the same way. Unless you get to know the nature of how it's treated, the tree is going to die. Only, it doesn't tell you, "I'm hungry, I'm thirsty." A live animal, at least if you get to know them, they let you know when they're hungry or when they're thirsty. It's amazing to look at that and realize that it's growing, seems so finished. It The whole thing is, in bonsai, you're supposed to have the plant look as though it was that plant in miniature . And I think that the reason that the bonsai as such in Japan appeals to Occidental taste is because it's a more finished miniature. Where the bonsai first started, it evolved from China into Japan, and they've cultivated it. It's like many of the Chinese artists' pictures, they're very simple. Unless you know what you're looking at, it doesn't mean anything. The same with some of the Chinese bonsai. After the war, there were some brought in from China, by way of Hong Kong or wherever they came from. Some were just like that piece there [points], a stem about eighteen to twenty-four inches long, and heavily carved, a deciduous tree, I don't know what it was. It looked just like a piece of stump to me. I didn't know why they would call that bonsai, but well, I guess that's what it is. 57 . Later, much later, within five, «ix years or so, maybe four years now, a man from Hong Kong came, well-educated. We started talking about bonsai. I said, "How come the Chinese bonsai pictures as such are so severe?" "Oh," he said, "bonsai actually is trying to reproduce nature in the miniature." That's what it is. They're trying to miniaturize or make a replica of trees and shrubs that are growing in nature, in their own area. And in most of China, it being an old country, all of the woods have been cut off, forests have been cut off, and the stumps are left. And when they can't get wood they go out and chop parts of the dead wood for firewood. So that's where the slashings on the wood [came from]. They don't see what the tree was before it was cut down, the next younger generation, several generations younger. And so if they're trying to make something look like nature, why, here is this old stump that's been chopped off. That was the first time I understood why there was a difference in the shapes of bonsai. Even this—not this book that just came out, but in this--I think they must have a Chinese library in Oakland where they have books you can take out. This book here is one that I think was written by someone in China, and it was financed by some rich banker in Hong Kong. And the offer came out in one of the first American magazines: anyone donating I think it was either fifteen or twenty-five dollars to the Methodist missionary group in China, they would send you the book free. (Later they re-edited it and decided to sell it direct from there.) But in this book, they had a Chinese section, and then the Japanese section of the bonsai, and they're almost entirely different. It was just like looking at modern art and surrealist art and cubist art. Riess: The Japanese were trying in their bonsai to do something that was intrinsically beautiful? Domoto: No, it wasn't that. I don't think so much beautiful, but I think that- -you know, beauty, you don't try to make anything beautiful. That comes with it. It's a by-product. You don't try to make something beautiful. You're trying to reproduce something which you think looks good. I think most of that is they were trying to recreate the trees in miniature of what they saw in Japan. And a lot of the trees, the shapes were the ones they would find on the mountain sides. They hadn't been cut down. They were more or less copying nature as they saw it. And because of the size, the area, of the homes, they had to make the plants smaller in order to make them fit into their gardens. 58 V JAPANESE GARDENS, FAMILY, AND HOME Rock Gardens. Kaneli Domoto Domoto: About thirty years ago, I got to know a Chinese artist who was in one of the groups that had to leave China when the Communists took over. They went to Japan, they went to Brazil. When I got to know them, they had built a home on the 17-Mile Drive. You couldn't buy a home [right] on the 17-Mile Drive, but the subdivision just before the 17 -Mile Drive. They built a home there , and they had one of the local nurserymen put in a Japanese, Oriental rock garden. Even after he finished, something was wrong. He didn't like it. My brother was doing landscaping back East, and he knew about this artist, he had seen some of his paintings back East. And he went to see what the garden was doing, because [the Chinese man] was buying plants at the same time my brother came out here . My brother looked at the garden and he [the Chinese man] asked him what was wrong. He said, "The shape is there, but something's wrong." My brother looked at it and he said, "The rocks are placed wrong." He asked [my brother] if he could stay and fix it, but my brother had a job that he was working on back in New York, and he said he had to finish that first. He said, "After that, I'll probably come out." So he said, "What do you charge?" He said, "Oh, I won't charge you, but you have to pay my fare out." But he told the Japanese nurseryman doing the landscaping the kind of rock he should try to find, to place in the garden. He asked about the size, and the shapes, and said when he came back, he'd help place it. I think my brother said he [the nurseryman who had laid out the garden] had been making small Japanese gardens in an average 59 residential home, which was very small, where this was a real big garden. Putting the rocks in the same way, it didn't do anything. The main mistake he had made was, when he made the pool you could see the cement. That's what hurt, that the artist didn't like. He didn't want to see the cement. The main rocks that my brother had the nurseryman get for him were large enough to go over the pool edge, and then there would be rock and water, but no cement showing. And especially in the main spot. If it had been quarried, you could arrange for the walls, so they wouldn't show so much. But since it was made like a swimming pool, he had to kind of hide it. When they got through replacing the rocks and putting a few major plants in, the artist was so pleased. He had a financial interest in a Chinese restaurant that was just going to be built in Monterey, and so they had a dinner in his honor. Riess: In your brother's honor? Domoto: Yes. Because he was so pleased with the garden. Riess: That's a good story. Where did your brother study? Domoto: He went to UC Berkeley- -Cal-- for a while. Then, when the '39 Treasure Island exhibit came in, the Exposition, the garden group from Japan, the artisans that came, they wanted workers to help do the manual work in the garden. So they came out in this area and hired I think about five or six boys in their twenties or college age, most of them sons of nurserymen or farmers in this area. I think there were six or seven of them. One of them was a son of a laundryman, and I think the other two, or three, were flower growers, and one was a farmer's son. Anyway, they worked in putting in a garden on Treasure Island. The group that came [from Japan] --one knew how to place rocks , another one about the plants , and the other was a PR [public relations] man. One designed the general design. The building part was a different group from the landscaping part. My brother had been doing some work around before in gardens. Then when he got working, he liked working with rocks, and the fellow that was placing the rocks, he worked under him. So he learned about the placement and everything. And certain kinds of trees to choose. When they finished installing the garden on Treasure Island, they were going to New York to start the garden there for the World's Fair. They said to him, "Why don't you come to New York 60 and help us?" They had difficulty speaking English, and my brother couldn't speak too much Japanese, but at least they could communicate and translate what had to be done in English to the laborers that had to come in. So finally he went to New York there, and he found out he couldn't get in to work in the World's Fair because they had a union. But it so happened that the nurseryman there, a Japanese nurseryman supplying the plants for the Japanese exhibit, was unionized, so he signed him up, and he was able to work there. He had two major garden displays of different kinds of rock and things to work with. Then after that I think he --he was studying architecture, so then he went to Frank Lloyd Wright in Taliesin [in Wisconsin] and studied there, and then he went down to Arizona [Taliesin West], and worked there. And they were building it in the early days, so they had to learn carpenter work and everything. Riess: You mean he was a regular student of Frank Lloyd Wright's? Domoto: Yes. Riess: So he went back into serious study of architecture at that point. Domoto: Oh, no- -he didn't go back to college any more. I think he had two years of college. Riess: But he was an apprentice of Wright's for a while? Domoto: Yes. They were --they had another name for it. But actually, it was apprentice worker on the buildings. Riess: I went to Taliesin recently, and they talked about the building of it, and how they were trying to mix the building blocks out of the local materials. It was a great challenge for the students. What is your brother's first name? Domoto: Kaneji. Riess : You and your brother have both kept your Japanese names . Your father and his brother took American names. Domoto: Both I and my brother never got a Christian name. They used to call it Christian names; the Anglo-English name would be called Christian name. We never--. He just shortened his name to Kan, and my name is always any name they could figure out out of the letters I had. 61 Riess: Was it was necessary in some way for your father and his brother to get along in business to have Christian names? Domoto: It wasn't a matter of getting business. The workers they worked with, it was hard to remember their names, so they decided to give them the easiest names they could remember, like Tom, Henry, Frank, Joe, Harry. tt Domoto: And then their name became part of their legal names, too. Instead of Tom, it was Thomas, Harry was Harry, of course, and Frank was Frank. Riess: Did they get so they called each other by their Christian names? Domoto: No. It would be Kane-san, Motono-san, I guess. I don't remember otherwise. Riess: And your brother, after he finished his apprenticeship, or his period of working with Wright, then he went into business in landscape architecture? Domoto: Yes. And I think because of his association with Wright, he decided that if he would ever design a house for anybody, unless he got the contract to do the landscaping along with it, that he wouldn't take the job. I think there's one house he designed that way. Then he got more and more into the landscape side of it. Riess: And he stayed on the East Coast? Domoto: Yes. Riess : Where was he during the war? Domoto: In camp, same as we were. Then when we went out, he went East. Most of the work he did was up in Connecticut, and Florida, and down into--. I think he had a job in Jamaica, one of those West Indies islands; he went down to do the landscaping for the hotel complex, and then also he put in the garden for the owner down there . One of the first gardens he did in New York was for a professor who was interested in gardens, and my brother did some gardening work for him. Riess: Did he work with any of the botanical gardens? Domoto: No. I don't think so. Not as such. 62 Japanese Gardens. Expositions Riess: There is a quite wonderful garden near Philadelphia called Swiss Pines, that is a Japanese garden. Domoto: Most of those early [Japanese] gardens back East and in the middle West, they were started- -if you look up the history you find out it was in connection with some fair, like international fairs sometimes. Riess: I'm sure you're right, because it's along Fairmont Parkway and that's probably from some Philadelphia exposition. Domoto: The one he built on Treasure Island of course was taken down altogether, because the war came along and that became a naval station, so they needed buildings and so forth. Those gardens have changed. Even the ups and downs of the tea garden in Golden Gate Park. See, that was really for the Exposition in I think 1890 [1894 California Midwinter International Exposition]. But then the '15 Fair came along, and they kind of enlarged it a little bit and did some remodeling. And then during the '39 Fair --buildings deteriorate and they had to rebuild part of it. But the old Moon Bridge --that's the picture you see, "Japanese Tea Garden," that's the thing that they emphasized. Riess: Did your father have anything to do with the Japanese Tea Garden? Domoto: Oh, the plants he imported in '13 from Japan, one of the maples, a Pacific Basin maple. But the big cedars that were imported from Japan--. My father got the contract to supply the plants for the Formosan exhibit, but the Japanese garden was by another landscape man. My father supplied the plants, he didn't do any designing of it. The Fair. 1915. and the Cousins Riess: That gets us back to where we stopped last time. What do you remember of the Fair? How much time did you spend there? Domoto: I think there was one trip we took over as a student group, school group. And the other time, the family group would go. Some of the buildings I remember, one was the Hawaiian building, in a very tropical setting. And then the Zone. And, the other was-- 63 Riess : Domoto: Riess: Domoto: [pause] not the science building, but food, or something, where they passed out a lot of free samples. [laughs] The Hawaiian building I remember because 1 went with my cousin and their tutor in Japanese from Japan who was an ex- lieutenant in the army. He'd take us around to make sure [we saw what we should] --but in sort of the leisure time in the afternoon, my cousin was a natural musician, and we would sneak off to the Hawaiian building and hide there and listen to the Hawaiian music. That's the ukelele and the guitar with that soft, drawly music. We'd stay there and just listen. Then this tutor would come looking for us. He knew where to find us. And I still remember the remark that he made to my cousin. He said, "For you young Japanese sons to be in the Hawaiian building, you'll never become men." He used this word, in translation, he said, "Your testicles will drop off." [laughter] In other words, you won't be a man if you stick around for that lazy [music] . You ought to be more militant and more strident, not lazy, letting the world come by. He was the tutor? Yes, he was employed by my aunt [Matsue] to tutor her children. He didn't tutor us, but when they were taking their family over to the fair, I was included to go with them. And he talked in Japanese with us . Your aunt did this so that her children would not lose the old ways? Well, she had an entirely different outlook, I guess you'd say, on life. I think she was from the Kyoto part of Japan, and she always said they had to learn Japanese . Her family used to travel quite a bit. They had a home in Oakland, Oakland, and then they moved back East. two homes I know of in Her children all went to private schools, that kind of thing. My older cousin, they had a military academy in Belmont, and he went there, and then they went back East. I think neither one of them [boy cousins] finished college, but the oldest girl, she was a Vellesley graduate. And after the war in Japan, she was doing the screening for the scholarships for Japanese students coming to the US, and then also American students going to Japan. She was the Fulbright director in Japan. My folks always used to say, "Too bad she wasn't born a male instead of a female." Riess: Because she could have gotten even further? 64 Domoto: Well, gone into their business, which was importing and exporting. Their boys, they were ordinary, they didn't have the drive and the insight that she did. But she made a place in history. Riess: The role of the oldest child in the Japanese family is very important, isn't it? Domoto: Well, it's like any of the older civilizations, the oldest one generally- -like the royal family, the oldest son becomes the next in reign- -and it's the same in Japan. Riess: You say that this aunt had a different attitude. How would you characterize that attitude? Domoto: Veil, probably it's the difference between a merchant and a farmer. My father and mother, they were both from more or less the agricultural group, and she [my aunt] felt that for her children to succeed, they had to learn to get along with the people who were higher up, sort of high society. Riess: So she was doing everything to move them up a step. Domoto: Yes, in a foreign country, or in Japan to be international. My father and mother felt that if you were going to make a living in America you have to live with the common people, to know them. Otherwise you'll have a hard time, unless you have funds or something, or go into international work. I'd say they were more realistic, because he was in a nursery and he was importing and exporting. So, instead of going to private school I went through all public schools. In fact, the school I went to in Oakland had just been completed, the first one I went to, Melrose Heights, in about 1910, I guess, because I was eight years old when I first went to grammar school. Home Training. Religion. Social Groups Riess: Yet your parents were ambitious for you? Domoto: I don't think they were trying to tell us anything, but they just brought us up the way they did, instead of trying to tell us that we should be this way or that way. 65 My aother taught us the Japanese alphabet very early. Later the families were able to get other people who were either teachers or good scholars who could teach Japanese. But my basic Japanese, learning the alphabet, what little I knew of the Japanese alphabet, I learned from my mother. We were building greenhouses at the time, and when they cut the bars off there would be little pieces of wood shaped like a flat building block, and she had us cover them with rice paper. She showed us how to mix the rice paste, take the rice, boiled rice, and make glue out of it, and then we would paste the Japanese rice paper over the top of it. Then she was the one that used to write the alphabet on each block. That was the A, B, Cs of Japanese on those blocks. That's how I learned my fundamental Japanese. . Riess: Did your family attend a Buddhist church? Domoto: No. I was never a church-goer. Riess: And they were not either? Domoto: No, my folks were not. I have gone to several different churches, but that was because of my association with Caucasian friends, and going with them. I've gone to Lutheran, Methodist. The most severe was Seventh-Day Adventist. And I visited Catholic churches, I just kept going as a visitor, and when they wanted me to take communion, "Nah." I couldn't see it. Riess: Were you looking for a religion? * " Domoto: No. I went because my friend's family, or friend, probably had to go, to attend Sunday school. Because of companionship he'd say, "Come on with me," and because there was nothing else to do on a Sunday . Riess: That was during grade school. Domoto: Oh, yes, grade school. By the time I got to high school I never went, and college, church-wise only through the- -I guess it was called International Club. Riess: What was the International Club? Domoto: International used to be sort of a social club at Stanford, any denomination- -it was more really international, trying to get students from different nations, nationalities, to attend it. I think the fellow who was the leader in that was- -I don't even remember what denomination he was. 66 Mother's Life, and Traditions Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Did your parents belong to Japanese clubs or organizations when they came here? No, there was nothing like that. And they were all the way out in the country, and any of the clubs were in the city, San Francisco. Nothing was in Oakland. So my mother grew up almost like an exile in that respect. Feminine companionship was limited except for one or two woman servants that came in to help the family. Is that something you think about now? unhappy about it? Do you think she was I think at times--! never realized it then, because we were busy all the time in the family—at times, I think she felt a little lonesome. But she had the ability to try to do things for people, and I think that was her outlet in there. Never trying to be a show-off or a boss or anything, but in her quiet way, she used to help whoever was in trouble. And that would include your Caucasian neighbors? Some, but most of them were Japanese, workers or wives or some of the other people here from Japan for a while. Probably they'd come to see her because they were lonesome. The Japanese church as such- -I guess the Buddhist churches were about the first to get started, have a branch, and that was probably in San Francisco. Then in the Oakland area- -in San Francisco too, but in the Oakland area- -I guess the Methodists were about the first. And to have a sermon with a Japanese -speaking minister? Oh, most of those, the Methodists and the Buddhists were in Japanese, because the attendants were mostly older people. And the youngsters, if they had to go. The Buddhist group had- -I think there were two divisions, just like the Methodist north and Methodist south, two entirely different outfits. It was two groups of those . At home, did you have — is it a takenomo- -the shrine? No. Because I think basically my father and mother were both Christian. Riess: They had been converted in Japan? 67 Domoto: No, I don't think they were there long enough to be converted really. They came before they got--. But I think parti.ally because some of the friends or associations here. You know, as far as the--. We used to have some of the things they used in the shrine, like for burning incense. About the only time I remember burning incense is when we went to a funeral . Riess: How about Boys' Day and Girls' Day? Domoto: That we used to celebrate when we got older. My mother had some Girls' Day toys from Japan that she had sent to her, and then we imported some others, bought some. Then for the Boys' Day she had the carpenter that was building our buildings, building greenhouses for my dad, a Japanese carpenter, he made a nice little stand for both different days, and we had the different dolls. And I think later, after War II, what we did, we divided the toys. My sisters took the girls' dolls and each one took a choice to divide those. The boys '--I think most of them we donated to some museum. Because some of those were quite old by the time we got them. Riess: And the other thing on Boys' Day is to have the carp flying? Domoto: Yes. Most of those are made in Japan, of course. To me, it didn't mean anything, except I thought that it did, so we did it. Of course, later, I learned what was carp was supposed to symbolize . Riess: Long life? Domoto: Well, not so much long life as --probably that was one of the things, but I think just the ability of the carp to swim upstream against the obstacles. At least, that was one of the things I was taught about the carp . The House at New Ranch Riess: What was your house like when you were at the New Ranch? Did you build it? Domoto: At that time my uncle [Mitsunoshin] - -that was my Uncle Harry- -was getting married, and they had built one of those big, high two- story buildings for them to move in as newlyweds. But they never moved in at all. They went to Japan, because I think he got TB; 68 they went to Japan and never came back. Although it was built for them, we moved in. We had moved it from one corner of the nursery property to the other, to be closer to the greenhouse area, and we had moved into that house. Riess: Really? Oomoto: Yes, from 78th Street. We moved it what would have been about six blocks, across the forty-eight acres of the nursery property. It was one of my mother's dreams when we were going to the New Ranch to have a house more like the one she would like, rather than a house that was built for nursery convenience where you had living quarters that were on the second floor, and one of the bigger rooms downstairs was used to feed the help- -the help would feed off the same kitchen. In the new place, a kitchen was set up separately for the employees . This house, I guess my aunt was instrumental picking out the design. But it was one of those high Victorians with a high basement, so it was almost like a three -story house. And between the second and third story there were eighteen steps, and a banister, and I used to like to slide down the banister. But that was a long way down, and if you went too fast you'd fall on your butt! Riess: Did it have nice Victorian details? Domoto: In some respects. Kind of scalloped [eaves]. An upper porch where you could go outside, and a second, main porch. And a big living room. And then another room, and later that room was cut, partitioned, so you could have a study room- -a room where you could study. Riess: Did your mother keep a garden there? Domoto: She didn't have much time for that. That was done by whoever was helping around the house. They would put the garden in. I don't know if she did too much of that. The help used to do the vegetable garden. 69 VI NURSERY BUSINESS, CONTINUED Azaleas Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : When we finished last week, you shoved me a photograph of a nursery in Japan that had a complete collection of Kurume azaleas? It wasn't a nursery; that was the exhibition of the Kurume Society in Japan that had this show. That was prior to my father getting the exclusive import right for the Kurume azaleas to the West. Does that mean that your father's was one of the biggest operations here, that he got that? I would say in importing plants from the Orient, we were about the largest. He went back to Japan to negotiate this business? His brothers used to go back, but most of the process was by mail. Even for the plants that came for the Exposition, the 1915 Fair, that was by correspondence . We used to import things every year- -fruit trees and so on-- but I would say his main contribution was the introduction with the Cottage Gardens of the Kurume azaleas from Japan. They were first importation of Kurume azaleas to the U.S. Prior to that our main importing was the commoner shrubs of that time, like camellias, daphnes, and the red- -I think it was called the Sunrise azalea. Riess: These Kurume azaleas, are they a parent strain of the azaleas we see all over now? Domoto: No. Azalea was very wide -spread. They have azaleas all over this country . 70 ft Domoto: Even In Japan, the azaleas in the southern part of Japan, and the Kurume from the northern part, the species are entirely different. They have small flowers and are very coapact. And in fact I guess a lot of the Japanese themselves, they didn't know too much about the Kurume azaleas until they started to have a show there. Riess: Vas there a lot of color variation in the Kurumes? Domoto: The Kurumes are the first ones I think that had color variation. Most of the others, like your Southern Indicas, they were mostly purple, white, the two colors. But the Kurumes have more of the shape -- shape , size, and color—and then habit of growth. They were more compact growing. You can see from pictures, they were more like the bonsai type. Riess: Vas his intention when he got the license to do some hybridizing too? Domoto: No, no hybridizing. We got them in, and then it was a matter of propagating from those plants, and then introducing them to the trade. We did our own propagating. We kept the Japanese name on them to sell here, but we were never able to do much propagating. Riess: Why not? Domoto: Well, the conditions, and not knowing how to propagate. We didn't know anything about peat moss; we just planted them in heavy adobe, and we lost a lot of stock plants. Whereas, the plants we sent to Eureka, they [Cottage Gardens] had started a nursery up there because they were looking for a section in the U.S. where the climate would be more equal to the climate of Holland or Belgium. And also, where they could find the right kind of soil. They used to bring in redwood leaf mold from the forest in big truckloads to put the plants in, so they grew well. We didn't know about peat moss until much later. Then we started to get the German peat moss, and started to work that into the soil, but that wasn't until much, much later. We were just planting in the heavy adobe, and the heavy adobe earth didn't- -the plants would survive , but then never improve . Riess: So that didn't turn out to be very successful? Domoto: As far as the commercial propagation of azaleas, that's right. We were never able to get into full force with them. We could buy the plants from Cottage Gardens for resale a lot better than we could grow ourselves. 71 Riess: Cottage Gardens is Charles Ward's company in Eureka? Domoto: Yes. Camellia Trees Riess: When we looked at your album, we also saw some of the handsome plantings at the state capitol building in Sacramento. What were you telling me about them? Domoto: In US history, plants go through various stages of popularity. Those trees I guess are probably not the first camellia trees that were planted in California, but some of the varieties were some probably that my dad had imported before. But then before that, a number of them used to be imported from either Germany or England, and they were planted. Those trees in the capitol grounds, when Sacramento was being developed, eastward out of the capitol area, some of the old homes, just like in Oakland or Berkeley, the old, fashionable homes where either people had passed on or the buildings were going to be demolished to put new buildings in, and the trees- -the capitol building I think had just been built, and the area was rather barren, and the landscapers decided that they would get the camellia plants that people didn't want. The state would pick them up and plant it. The gardener at that time was a camellia enthusiast, and 1 guess the Camellia Society of Sacramento also thought it was a good idea, so they helped instigate the popularity of that idea. A number of the old trees were donated. Even some of the- -I guess they used to plant camellias in the graveyards, cemeteries, and some of those would get too big, so some of those were even taken out of the cemetery. The cemetery association would let them take it out, and the plant was either taken out altogether or replaced with some lower growing plants, because they were getting too big. So they went into the capitol area there. Riess: Was your father the contractor for that? Domoto: Oh, no, no. That was just an incident in history. We got to know about it because that was the period where camellias were getting popular. We used to go around to shows, or wherever we could find out what variety that we could get, plants that we either could buy or get cuttings from. 72 Riess: How long can a camellia live? Donoto: Long. I don't know if they still have it, but the Coe collection in, I think, Massachusetts, the Coe family, they have one of the first 'Alba Plena' [Japonica] camellias in there, and over there they're a strictly indoor plant, because it gets too cold. Also they had the reticulata. And I understand the greenhouse has had to be heightened at least three times to accommodate the growth habits of the original plant. plant Enthusiasms, and Determinants Domoto: You see, there again, the period of plant popularity- -I can kind of visualize the stages of different things that are popular. I remember as a youngster, the only plants we got from Japan or imported from Belgium or Holland would be these very tight azaleas. You don't see many in the florist shops now, because they're too expensive. The azaleas- -mostly azaleas, a few rhododendrons. That was when the 'Pink Pearl' rhododendron first came out, and the botanists couldn't figure it out. The rhododendron was so large that it just took over. Riess: I thought 'Pink Pearl' was an azalea. Domoto: 'Pink Pearl' has a lot of different plants named after it. And then the other plant as a house plant- -and then also planted outside- -was the araucaria. You know, they're very tiered. They used to get it and think it would be nice for a house plant, and then they would plant it out in the garden somewhere. Those are more or less the popular plants. And then along about '14 or '15, that's when they used to start getting the trimmed boxwoods --boxwood, bay trees- - Riess: Oh, and the laurels. Domoto: Grecian laurel. Riess: People started wanting these trimmed shapes? Domoto: Oh, that was what was available. They came already trimmed. They had the regular pyramid shape, and then they had the globe, and then they had the standards. Globe was the common shape, and once or twice they had some that were trained into more or less animal or bird shapes, but those were more as a novelty deal. 73 Riess: And where would they be coming from? Domoto: Most of them were already grown and from Belgium. Riess: Is there any tradition in Japan of animal-shaped trees? Domoto: I don't think so. Shaping a tree into animal shapes I think must be European, either German or English. But as far as commercial exportation to the U.S., Belgium was the country that got into the production of those plants. Riess: Quarantine 37 was a quarantine against all countries, not Just imports from Japan, was it? Domoto: No, no, worldwide. It was international. Riess: When did hydrangeas become popular, and did your father deal in hydrangea, too? Domoto: It was really for the 1915 Fair, I guess, was the double one that they named Domoti, that was the double otaksa variety f Hydrangea macrophylla otaksa var. domotil . Riess: Is that still available? Domoto: It comes on the market every once in a while. I think about four or five years ago some nursery catalogue was introducing it as a novelty. [laughter] But the otaksa varieties, the garden varieties don't force too well for pot culture. That's when the shorter, more compact varieties came. And those were introduced I think from- -they were either English, or hybrids introduced by one of the Eastern nurseries. Riess: What is your impression of why these popularities come and go? What's the driving force behind it? Domoto: I think it's economic, economics. Riess: For instance, bay trees? Domoto: That was one formal period where nothing was being grown. Most of those were being imported, and very few being grown here. And then after that the landscapers were using veronicas, different kinds of veronicas, and cotoneasters and pyracantha. And eugenia. That's one period. Almost every nursery, those were the main plants that were being sold, outside of conifers. And conifer- wise, it would be- -oh, Italian cypress along about that time became very popular. 74 But before the Italian cypress, the trees--. That's connected with a lot of the tall growing things that are more or less part of the planting for streets. Like we had the Dracaena palm. And then we had a period when the Phoenix palm was used. But that got too big and too wide for sidewalk planting, so they used to be planted in the middle of a lawn. The old homes in parts of East Oakland and parts of Alameda used to have the big Phoenix palms there, very tall, and the trunks got big. That was the era of the palms, and then palms went into shade trees, and then shade trees--! think there was sycamore, poplar, and some acacia. Riess: In what way was that driven by the economy? Domoto: Well, streets got wider, and people had to have sidewalks, and you would walk down there, the tree would get in the way. So you'd want a smaller trees that would get tall. Riess: I live in a part of Berkeley where there's a lot of the cinnamon camphor, the Chinese camphor tree. Domoto: Yes, that was a period when they were planting camphor trees. Riess: And all the sidewalks are bulging with roots. Domoto: Yes. There was a time when camphor trees were very popular, and then because of the way it was growing, the gingkos came in, and parts of San Jose, you see just all gingkos. And then after that the flowering trees came in, like the hawthornes, and crabapples and peaches and plums, those flowering trees came in. . Riess: For street trees? Domoto: Street or yard trees, even. Riess: I guess you know that eugenia has suffered a major setback now, with the psyllid. After all the years of eugenia hedges. Domoto: Yes, and they used to have scale, but for some reason they were able to control the scale, with spray or other predators. But there are several varieties of eugenia, too. Riess: It just shows how dependent people have become on that plant, when you see how many devastated hedges there are. Domoto: I think there again, you see, they wanted something to grow fast that they can produce at an economic price. That's why, you see, it depends on the economy. And then the yards were getting 75 smaller. They didn't have room for big trees, and people didn't want to wait until the trees would get big. They were in a hurry. They're getting more and more so now. That's why these tree farms like the ones they have --two or three in Sunol, and in southern California- -they grow trees just for street tree planting, so they're large trees, or for immediate subdivisions. That era started in southern California, Del Amo, I guess he was Spanish descent, one of the big subdividers down there. He couldn't find trees for his planting at the nursery in quantity for his planting, so he started a subsidiary on Del Amo land called the Del Amo Nurseries. They grew plants mainly for their own subdivisions. The surplus they had they would sell to other nurseries . So the whole economy has changed. Like conifers, the style will change. There are very few Italian cypress being planted. Once in a while I see some of the gardens where they want something tall. More on Azaleas Riess: Back to these Kurumes, your father had the exclusive sales rights between 1917 and 1921. Domoto: We had the rights, but we were never able to make use of them, except to bring a few in for variety that we needed for propagating. Riess: But 10,000 were sold? That sounds like a lot. Domoto: Veil, if you divide that in two, half went to Cottage Gardens, and that went East, and they in turn would either divide it two or three ways back there. And then they started to propagate--. I think over there it ended up by just one of the nurseries propagating. Out here we depended on Cottage Gardens to produce the plants. But the Kurume were slow-growing, and their popularity at that time was--. While they were pretty- looking, they wanted more of the showy Indica ones. They call it the Christmas azalea, the potted azalea, the forced variety, with a nice brilliant shiny foliage and deep red flowers, so it was a good Christmas plant. Then we had the weaker growing Vervaena, the larger -flowered, double. They were white and pink and variegated. Those were the main forced azaleas we used to have. Gardenwise the only one we 76 had out here was the one they call Hlnodegiri-- garden azalea. And then about the time the azalea craze came in, there was one called Hino-crimson. Hinodeglri is sort of a lavender-red, and made a splash in the garden, but it's a hard color to use. And now, I guess the Hino-crimson has taken over and is still in demand. Riess: Some gardens are really splendid azalea displays in springtime, but the colors are wild. Domoto: Well, if they're dirty magenta--not magenta, it's a dirty pink, neither rose nor pink nor white --in a mass it's all right, by itself, but it never fits in with anything else. Over in Lake Merritt Park they used to have a big bed- -I don't know if they have it there or not- -and in Berkeley, too, and in Piedmont, the old gardens, they have Hinodegiri. And that blooms I think a little earlier than the Hino-crimson. The Hino- crimson is much later. Tom Domoto 's 1917 Trio to Japan Riess: When your father went back to Japan in 1917 to make this purchase, I have read that he was also dealing in junk steel. Domoto: That was incidental, because my uncle was importing- exporting. My father mainly took plants, because he hadn't been there--! guess that was the first time he went since he came, since he brought my mother from Japan, his first trip back to Japan. Riess: Do you remember your father's departure, the excitement about that? Domoto: Departure in steamers in those days was quite an event. Everybody would go down to the pier to see them off, and throw serpentines, and they would keep on tying the serpentines to see how long--. They were in rolls, and if you threw it right, you would hold one end of it, one long streamer, and then it comes out, and just before the ship would start sailing, let it down off of the side of the deck, and then grab it, and as they move away from the wharf, at about the end you'd tie another one on, and try to keep that going as long as possible. And, of course, the steamers, they had to be backed away from the pier. They had to go out into the Bay, and then head towards the Golden Gate with the tugs, so it would take a little time. And then they had an orchestra playing. It was quite colorful. 77 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess : Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: The whole family cane? Oh, not necessarily everyone, but whoever could- -friends --would go out and see them off. Could you go on board before? Oh, yes, certain ones that had permits to visit there, especially if they were first or second class. How did your father travel? First or second class? When they were going that time I think they went either second or first. Third-class steerage, you were below deck all the time, whereas the first class would be above-deck. Did you say "they?" Who went? Your father and his brother? My father and his brother, the two of them. How long were they gone on that trip? It must have been at least maybe a year and a half or two years. Really? And who was responsible at this end, then? Oh, as far as the nursery part went we had different foremen and superintendents . I see . Why was he gone so long? Well, the wartime, and they were busy otherwise. And travel in those days, it was at least one month traveling, so even if you go there and back it's two months out of the year. That's ten months left. If you wait for one season to get the plants together, and then the wartime, it's not easy to travel. I think he was gone- -I know through one season. Did the plants come back with him on that crossing? No. It would be a different kind of a boat? Oh, there might be some on the same boat, but most of them, after they were purchased, they had to be boxed, crated, and put on board. That first purchase that came in, he had to check on it to make sure that the people that were boxing them were doing it properly. Some of the plants we used to get, especially I 78 remember on peonies, the ones we were getting from one grower, they were pretty true to name. But some of the otiieis'were way off. Tvohoid Fever and Other Illnesses Riess: I remember noticing in your photo album, and asking you about it, a picture of your father in a full beard. You said that was because you had typhoid fever? Domoto: Oh, that was- -I didn't know exactly why he did it, most of the time he just had a mustache—but I had gotten typhoid fever. Riess : When? Domoto: I think in about 1916. Riess: From what? Domoto: The nearest thing that I could connect with it was in those days when they used to get these big blocks of ice from the lakes for the cut flower storage, for the San Francisco Flower Market. My dad had a store over there in San Francisco, and I was over there visiting, and the iceman was just putting the big blocks of ice in the compartment above the place where they stored the flowers. I guess I picked up some shavings, pieces, and stuck them in my mouth- -and just enjoyed the ice. I think that's the only place we could figure out where I could get the typhoid fever. The ice had come in from lakes somewhere, frozen, and not artificially made. The ice that was sold to the restaurants, that was all artificially frozen. But these big blocks for the butcher shops and the flower shops- -they had a big cold storage area, they were the ones that had come in from the storage area- -they were the ones that were cut out from the lakes or wherever they were frozen. In those days they didn't know too much about typhoid, and everybody said you can't go near typhoid because you're likely to catch it too, so they were all afraid. It was just lucky that the man that was a chrysanthemum grower for my dad from Japan, Mr. Suto, he had nursed his son through typhoid fever and he offered to take care of me. I guess at the time, why, they thought that was the end, and that's why my father grew the beard. [foregoing said with deep emotion by Mr. Domoto] 79 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: I must have been sick at least nine months, or maybe longer. Do you remember that? I remember part. I don't remember being sick, but I remember I got to be all skin and bones and wasn't able to walk, even. I had to be taught how to walk, even, in the beginning. Those are the kind of things I remember. Where did you sleep? In the family home. They wouldn't take me to a hospital. They put me in one room and kept my sisters away. They couldn't come in until after the danger of contagion was over. Such a long recovery. In those days, no antibiotics or anything. Just a matter of care. High fever. And having to be taught to walk. I thought I could walk right away, but I had to be taught. Could you read? I just lay in bed for a long time, I don't know how long it was. And your father's beard? I found out afterwards, he said, "I'll leave it growing until he gets well. Then I'll shave it." What a celebration they must have had when you were well! They had a party when I got well enough to walk around again. That's one of your nine lives. Yeah, that and a busted appendix. I've had pretty near everything . [ laughs ] That was a real emergency. Were you young? I think that must have been 1917. I had a busted appendix, and I went to the hospital, and I was in a hospital I guess almost a month . What else don't I know about? Double hernia. 80 Riess: When was that? Domoto: Around the nursery, when we importing these stone lanterns from Japan. And I think I had pretty nearly every kid disease that came around from school. The epidemics would go through, and I'd bring it home—I'd get it first, and then the rest of the family would get it. Riess: Your poor mother. And then your sisters would bring home diseases? Domoto: Very little. I don't think so. Most of them had already had it by the time they got it through me. We had mumps, and scarlet fever . Riess: What a responsibility you had! Domoto: I guess I was a carrier, huh? And then there was a period where we had the colds where you used to get earache and they'd have to puncture the ear. I got so I used to help the doctor hold the ear, and I could almost pierce the ear for him. Riess: Did that damage your hearing? Domoto: No, it hasn't so far! I think my hearing is better than my eyesight. Riess: I can really sympathize with your mother. Domoto: And trying to treat them [children] all equal, you know. She never said anything, like she'd like to go back to Japan to visit her folks. But after one of her very close relatives, an aunt I think, died, she was kind of sad. She said, "Well, I don't have to go back. There aren't any more." Riess: She made a very remarkable family. She must have been remarkable. Domoto: Not only our family, but for other families, close friends, the wives used to come to her with a sob story, you know. They talked, and she tried to comfort them. Riess: I'm glad I asked about all that. I know it is hard for you to think back to that time. 81 Domoto: Little things like that, it's back here [gesturing to back of the head], and you ask them, and it comes out. 82 VII ANTI- ALIENISM Incorporation [Interview 3: August 5, 1992] ## Riess: How did you, personally, feel at the time of the Japanese Exclusion Act of 1924? Domoto: Feeling wasn't toward Japan so much then, it was more against the Asian immigrants. That was most of the anti- thing there, as far as my part is concerned. The thing that concerned us, as far as agriculture, was the land law, because it dealt with the land ownership. The anti-Alien Land Law was a California thing; it wasn't national.1 The main feature of that was that Japanese, Asians, could buy a home or rent an apartment, buy a home in the residential districts, but as far as agricultural land--. They were able to buy before that, but when the law went in, it was written so that if the family had purchased land before the Alien Land Law, at the time the husband passed away the state would escheat the property lH...the crusade against the Japanese mounted in intensity. ... The first major salvo of the campaign was the Alien Land Law, the Vebb Act of 1913. The burden of this measure was that aliens who were not eligible to citizenship would not be permitted to acquire farmland or to lease parcels of agricultural land for more than three years. Ostensibly it applied to all Orientals and to other aliens who could not or would not seek United States citizenship; practically its application was to the Japanese alone. ... It developed. . .that there were many ways to escape its full rigors, through indirect leasing, through the device of incorporation, and through vesting ownership in California Japanese who had already acquired citizenship." John W. Caughey, California. Prentice-Hall, 1961, pp. 470- 471. 83 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: and sell it, and the proceeds would go to the widow or heirs. But the widow would not be able to get title to the property, even though it was purchased before the land law. I think there was a chapter where a corporation, provided, I forget, 50 percent of the shareholders are American or something, a corporation could buy land. They could give the shares to the heirs or whoever they wanted, but they couldn't escheat the land. That was the main part of the thing. They couldn't what the land? Escheat. That's the term they used- -actually, almost like confiscating the property. Escheat sounds better. Did many corporations form then? Oh, yes. And would they have Asian members of the corporation? Well, most of the corporations that were formed earlier- -they were at different stages- -the earlier ones were to protect land that they already owned, or were in the process of buying. What did your father do specifically? We had to form a corporation. That's when it became Domoto Brothers, Incorporated? Yes. It was Domoto Brothers before that, long before that. But it wasn't incorporated until 1913, whenever the anti- Alien Land Law came in as law. That's when pretty near all the greenhouses and nurseries around went into incorporation. Names Riess: When did you begin to feel prejudice? Domoto: Certain kinds- -well, you know, the first feeling you get really when you start going to grammar school. The term they used to have for a Japanese was "skippy yellow-bellied Jap, skippy yellow- bellied Jap," and I guess those were the--. The youngsters, they would call you that. 84 The older ones, even their surnames, nicknames--. At that time, my father's and brother's were more common: Frank, my uncle; Tom, my father; Henry, Harry, and Joe. And for a long time, "Charlie" and "John" used to be names that they used to call the Chinese. Now by the second- and third- generation Japanese youngsters, they have John and Charlie first names already. But at one time, I remember when they called an Oriental, "Hey, Charlie," or, "Hey, John," he was Chinese. And the other names were more or less given to the first - generation Japanese, unless they had already taken a Christian name. It's hard for people to remember Japanese names, so they got so where, "Oh, we'll call you Frank or Tom." Eventually, even the legal papers, some of them, like my father's papers, it was Thomas Kanetaro Domoto. In other words, the Japanese name preceded by the Christian first name. Some of the second generation, what they used to do was get their Japanese name first, and the middle name. Or you'll see it vice versa, the middle name would be the Christian name. If they're baptized in the Christian church, then you get the English name , so the Japanese name would be the middle name . But then the youngsters, instead of using the Japanese name, they Just use the Christian name. Riess: When you were called names, was it hostile, or was it just kind of name -call ing? Domoto: Youngsters, like when you're going to school, after a while you get used to it. I can remember, I was never very athletic, but the grammar school would have an inter-school baseball team. I used to go along with them, help, maybe mascot or whatever it was, when we played one of the other grammar schools . I used to go to Lockwood School, and Highland Grammar School, they were around 84th Avenue and East 14th Street in Oakland, when we played the games they used to come and play, and they started calling me, "Hey, yellow- belly," and one of my classmates got up and started a fight. He said, "You don't call my friend that." As far as where I was concerned, it was different. You got to know them. That's the way it goes. Like even later, when the [Nurserymen's] Association- -the older generation in the business and that --"Well, he's different." You are singled out, not as a group, but as a single person. Sometimes you kind of have a feeling of resentment, not necessarily a feeling that you're poorer, but just resentment. And then you just learn to accept it and make the best of it. I always felt that way. 85 Riess: Domoto : Later in the business life, the nursery--! don't know about all of the others, but in the early days of flower shows, the Japanese growers, especially in the fall season, chrysanthemum season, they weren't allowed to compete in the show because they used to grow too good a flower. They'd get all the blue ribbons. But that didn't stop the exhibitors from buying the flowers from the Japanese growers and exhibiting them as their own grown! How long was that going on? Oh, that probably ended--! don't know just when, but that was during the early days of the society. Then later they got so that they used to let them come in. I've forgotten the name of the society. Maybe Pacific Coast Horticultural Society. That was in my father's time. But 1 was old enough to know what was happening. Education at Stanford Riess: Did you get very good grades in school? Domoto: Yes. Riess: Straight A's? Domoto: Well, not all straight A's, but it was good grades. Riess: How did you decide about Stanford? Why Stanford? Domoto: I could have gone to Cal or Stanford, I applied to both Stanford and Cal, but at that time Cal did not have a good horticultural type of education. Although 1 still then had no intention of going into the nursery business, 1 wanted to be something on the mechanical engineering side. Riess: So you weren't looking really for a horticultural education. Domoto: No. 1 wasn't, no. Riess: Was it your father who was telling you that there was no future in that profession? Domoto: No. It was left to us. But see, we had a tutor in Japanese who was a premedical student in Stanford, and that [must have been an influence]. And I didn't know until much later that my high school advisor was a Stanford graduate. So when it came to 86 putting in my application for entry, I had applications to Cal and Stanford, but 1 went to Stanford. I guess that was the period when Stanford first started their general education [course] . Whatever you call it. For the first two years you didn't go into your regular college to study. You would have a general citizenship course. The only ones who were taking electives were the engineers and those who were going into chemistry. They would have the electives that would go towards the degree in those two departments . But all the others , econ or history, all that, you just took a general course. That was the beginning of the idea that to be a success you had to have more knowledge than just a knowledge in one part. Testine the Stanford-Binet Test Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: In fact, that was the period when I think I told--. We had the Stanford-Binet test, did you hear about that? We were the beginning, one of the beginning groups. You mean they tested the Stanford-Binet test on you? On us, yes. Also, along about that same time, since we used to have the group of children from the Japanese nurseries around my father's place, and we had a teacher teaching them Japanese, they came and gave them all a test. The first test that they gave was individually. They found that there were a lot of things in the tests that we had no knowledge of, because of the different cultural upbringing. So they gave a different set of tests, or deleted part of it and tested those. And they thought that was valid? I don't know, but listening to the TV once in a while now-- It's still an issue. Yes, it's an issue. But I know at that time, when they first started the tests, there was a difference. I know they came and wanted permission to- -I think there were about ten or twelve, maybe more, youngsters there that took this group of tests. We took the tests even in high school, not individually but as a class, a group, the Binet test they were testing out. And some of our tests must have gone on into the test there, and for further study. I never knew whether they did it or not, but from what I understand, they may have followed up certain students. 87 Riess: Domoto : Rless: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Asian Students at Stanford Did you have a scholarship, or did you have scholarships offered to you? No. Those days, there wasn't much in the way of scholarships. We had to either work our way through or- -in fact, the tutor we had for Japanese, he was working his way through. Was that a problem for your family, to put you through Stanford? Oh, in those days--. Well, yes, actually, it wasn't like it is now, but I entered the year that they raised their tuition from $60 a quarter to $96. I didn't know about it. I went there and registered in the regular fall session, but I entered a class there with most of the students who had already been there through the summer session. Those that entered in the summer session were able to maintain the $60 tuition until they graduated. Whereas, I had to pay my $96. They didn't tell me anything about that, because I just went down and registered. Were there students from the East Coast at Stanford in those days, or was it more of a California school? I don't know where they were from. Mostly Californians, I guess. And were there other Japanese? Surely there were. Yes. We were limited I think--. [Quota?] We had a Japanese Club there, and there was a Chinese Club, living quarters. Was that where you lived? Yes. We had a clubhouse, and the Chinese had a clubhouse, just like the fraternities. Their houses were in Fraternity Row, so- called. Did this give you a sense of yourself as part of a Japanese elite? No. Just figured, well, taking my lessons, [laughs] What do you mean? Took them in stride. Without making any issue of it. Although they used to- - . I never felt just because I was there I was any better. But just to show you, during the summer vacation period some of the 88 Riess: Domoto: fellow [Japanese] students, they said they would be working out in the fields to earn money for tuition- -their summer work was mostly agricultural work. They would go out to groups there. Nonstudents, [fellow field workers], Japanese, they'd want to either buy or trade or whichever, the Stanford or California buckle, so they could wear it. They'd go parading around with it, and nobody would ask them if they were going there or not, but they assumed if they were wearing the belt, why, they were a Stanford or Cal man! The buckle was a traditional thing to buy when you were a freshman? Well, you didn't have to buy it, but most everybody else were wearing them. Of course, the freshmen designation was the beanies . Transferring to the University of Illinois Riess: You told me the first time we talked that you wanted to do the mechanical engineering, but you were pretty much discouraged from pursuing that because the job opportunities you knew were slim. Domoto: Yes. Of the ones [Japanese] that graduated before, or that we heard of that had got degrees here at Cal or Stanford, they had a hard time getting any jobs in their line. Riess: What made you change? Vas it the conversation with Frank Oechslin? [Frank Oechslin, a German grower in Chicago, was in California and visited Domoto Nursery where he and Toichi had a conversation. ] Domoto: I guess that was just one of the turning points. More than that was the fact that if I was going to go into horticulture or whatever, I should spend my time getting more knowledge in a school where they would offer that kind of courses. But I didn't know about it until talking with Oechslin. He said, "Well, if it's floriculture--" at that time it was either Cornell or Illinois, and on the cut flower side, pot plants, Illinois would be better. "If you're a general horticulture major, I think Bailey at Cornell." Riess: Oh, the famous Liberty Hyde Bailey. 89 Domoto: Yes. If I was going more into horticulture, he suggested going to Cornell. Riess: Why didn't you go to Cornell? Domoto: I went back to Stanford in the fall quarter for registering, and then found out that there was nothing in the classes there that interested me. Then 1 remembered the conversation I had in the summer with Oechslin, when I was talking to him. At Cornell they had already started. But the registrar at Stanford contacted the registrar at Illinois and he said, "Come right away." That week, or the first part of the week, I could get in; I could still register for that year. Riess: They really were helpful at Stanford. Domoto: Oh, sure, that way they were. And it just happened that the registrar and the department head over at Illinois said, "If you come right away, you'll be in time for the mid-quarter exams. But we'll give you time to prepare that exam." So I packed up and went to Illinois. Riess: That was the first time you had really been away from home. Was it a big trauma at this end? Domoto: Oh, sure. Home life and first time away experience. Like now, you go back and forth in a matter of five or six hours, or maybe ten hours of traveling time. Those days, you'd leave here, and in about three days or forty-eight hours--! think forty-eight or fifty-one hours- -go to Chicago, and then another half a day down to Urbana. And then you couldn't telephone; you could, but long distance telephones weren't in operation. So it was a kind of trying time. Riess: And you were more isolated, I suppose, from other Japanese? H Riess: The other Japanese, you say, were mostly from Japan? Domoto: Yes, graduate students. Riess : And planning to go back to Japan? Domoto: Yes. Or else they were sent by scholarship, or paid by some company back in Japan. Riess: What did you do for a place to live? 90 Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: After I got there they had to find people with rooms to rent or where I could go. So after they gave ne the names, address, I'd go there, and find a room in one of the professor's homes. The floriculture group was a very small group, so the professor there was very helpful in getting me oriented. The home was more or less a bedroom, and I had another place for boarding, 1 had to go there for the meals. You were long since used to American food, I guess, strange to have to eat at a boarding house table? or was it No, food was no bother to me. Except on the Vest Coast we're spoiled being able to eat a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables. The first place I used to go to for my meals , they were farm folks, so it was a good hearty meal, but very plain, Western, like cornmeal mush or whatever, in the morning, toast, eggs, and pork chops . [laughs] Like you're going out to work. Yes, regular farm menu. And lunch used to be--. 1 missed my vegetables more than anything else. In California, we're spoiled that way. Of course, at the folks' place, they used to have a vegetable garden around. And even fish, I never liked fish, but when you don't have it, you miss it. Floriculture Course Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Was there a famous professor at Illinois? Bailey at Cornell. Like Liberty Hyde It was a very small department, and the man that headed that was [Herman] Dohner. Dohner was the head of the department, and Dr. Veinard was the pathology, entomology professor. Stanley Hall was in charge of the greenhouse, the practical side of the horticulture . How can you still remember these names? I don't know. They're just there. Hall was a Vorld War I- -I think he must have been a lieutenant or something in the army, ex-army, but he never said too much about it. Once in a while he'd talk about how he hated war. But he never got into it much. But those three, and it 91 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : being a small group- -at that time I think there were five or six students in floriculture in my class, so it was a very informal group. We had some women that were in it, studying for landscape. Did they have a landscape degree there? Oh, yes. That was a separate degree, but the women took the floriculture classes? Yes. And some of the classes, like gardening, planting a garden, they figured that landscape people should know that, and the same with the ones in horticulture. So they had the classes together. But that didn't work out too good, because the landscape people- - there were too many of them there . Whereas those of us in floriculture either came from floricultural families, or those that had really wanted to go into that kind of work, in a small group, so we were more intense in our desire. The others were in there because landscaping was one of the easy courses, like in L&S [Letters & Science], so they would be in there . Then they decided to separate, so except for lecture courses in plant design or something like that, we were separated. 1 was lucky in having a small group as our group to work with. So we almost had like a personal tutor. When you talk about floricultural families, are you talking about members of families with names like Burpee? Most of them there were mostly in the wholesale cut flower growing or pot plant group, or related. Have you kept in business contact with your classmates there? No, mostly not. Of the group that graduated with me, I think one went to teach at Texas A&M. Another one came out to southern California, and he went into wholesale cut -flower shipping. And then another one, he graduated highest honors in the whole college at that time, he went into I think commercial law. He was a straight-A student all the way through college. Very sociable fellow. They had friends that were in the florist business, and 92 so he thought he'd like It. But after he finished- -I think he was getting ready to graduate, I think it was about the second year-- he went into the law, changed. Riess: You lost track of these people? I'm thinking of when life got hard during the Second Vorld War, did any of these people reach out to you and make contact? Domoto: As far as my classmates, they were all scattered in different places. Schranun's Nurserv. and Feeline Alien Domoto: But for my job relation during the war in Illinois, Professor Dohner and the staff there helped me staying with the family I worked with. Dohner, his father had a family flower-growing business in Illinois. His family, or rather he, was the one that made, that crossed one of the first named carnations at that time, called Laddie. It was a carnation with a strong neck, not too many flowers, a good pink. Anyway, he knew this family in Illinois that was in cut flowers. Riess: That's the Schramms? Domoto : S chr amm , ye s . Riess: Professor Dohner made the contact with you, or you had to write and ask him for that? Domoto: They started looking around for someone, the Schramms, they wanted somebody who knew about camellias. I had been in contact with Dohner. He thought of me right away, and he knew the conditions. So then they found out that if someone vouched for you, you could leave camp and go to work. So they in turn talked to the Schramms , and then they wrote a letter to me . But at that time the few that went out from camp to work, they weren't received too well. So I thought, "Well, what do I get by going out there? Nothing, so I might as well stay with the family." Later I got another call, from a man who was secretary of the American Association of Nurserymen, who worked for the D. Hill Nursery. I got to know him through a convention meeting in California with the California [Association of Nurserymen] . He wrote me a letter and said, "I'll verify that you'll get good treatment with the Schramms." 93 I thought, "Well, I can't lose anything. I'll go out for a couple of weeks or three weeks, and if I don't like it, I can go back." That's how I happened to go. The man that was in charge, that was running the Schramm greenhouses, was Mr. Arena. When I went there they met me, and instead of trying to find a place to stay, I stayed right in their house with them, lived with them as one of the family. I was fortunate in that case, because they were about my age, and they had been through War I, when those of German descent were in the same position that we were, only not quite as- -not concentration camps, but they were --you know, "the Huns" and that. They understood. Riess: Did they talk to you about that? Domoto: No. Riess: Or you just are understanding that. Domoto: Later some things come up, and they kind of mentioned that they knew what kind of feeling- -they never expressed too much, and I didn't either. I wasn't bitter or anything. I might have felt bitter, but I never expressed myself that way, about being treated as an alien. Because more or less, I was used to it. Riess: You say you're more or less used to it? Domoto: Yes. You get hardened to it. You're not happy with it probably, but when you get hardened as a youngster, you get used to little things. Like water off of a duck's back, it just rolls off and you don't let it bother you. If it bothers you too much, then it's bad. I found out later that I was never the type, or physically able to fight with anyone. You know, when you tease somebody, unless you get a reaction there's no fun doing it. So it stops. Whereas , a very good friend of mine , he was about my age , and he was very wiry, but he was very aggressive, and the minute they wanted to have some fun, and started to call him names, right away he wanted to fight. So, "Take off your coat." I used to have to hold his coat for him. [laughter] But in all my life, I've never had a really good fight with anybody. Only once, when I was doing something in grammar school and I happened to pull my hand back or something, and I happened to hit someone, just accidentally hit him. [Another guy] said, "Leave that guy alone. He knows jujitsu." [laughs] I didn't 94 know a darn thing about Jujitsu, but--, [laughs] Things like that. Riess: That's a good reputation to get! Getting Nursery Business Experience Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto : I was interested to look at the nursery trade catalogue that you loaned to me and to think about what goes into putting together a nursery business now. When you were in school were you learning all the practical stuff about how to start a nursery? Oh, that was part of the courses, but they didn't have all the things that they have now. You were supposed to be able to start growing things, or else knowing about greenhouse construction. Out here in California, a lot of the houses were built by a family or somebody that knew, because they're wooden houses. But in Illinois the weather conditions are a lot tougher, and they had to be better built, and they cost more, and very few growers built their own greenhouses. They had construction firms that did that kind of work, like back East in New York it was Lord & Bernham. They even had a branch in Mt. Eden here for California building after the war. What about the business end? running a nursery? Did you learn business skills for In college you don't get much, except at Christmas holidays. Christmas is a long holiday, and most of the florists would employ us to go and work during the holiday week. Those that were lucky enough, we used to go to work in a retail flower shop [on State Street], which I did in Chicago. The others, one of my classmates went to work at Garfield Park in Chicago --that's one of the older public parks, conservatories --during the vacation. After he graduated, he kept his job there, and I think later, he was in charge of the greenhouses . That's how you got your hands-on experience. Well, as far as my part, it was in preparing and caring for camellias for the retail market there, for wholesale market. Riess: In Chicago? 95 Domoto: In Chicago. And growing under their greenhouse conditions. They were in gardenias, so I was able to help them sizing right at the beginning. Like grading the flowers, I could grade pretty fast. So I got so I was more or less in charge of the packing room, did the packing. Riess: You didn't go home for that whole period of time when you were in Illinois? Domoto: There was no home there. I couldn't go back home. My home was here [Hayward] . And soon after I got there, I guess it was less than a month after I left, then they were trying to get the people out of the camps, so they were paying them to go out of camp. Riess: Excuse me. I mean when you were a student at Champaign-Urbana, did you come home during the summers? Domoto: The summertime I did, yes. Riess: That's what I meant. I didn't mean during the camp time. Domoto: No. That would only be two summers I came back home. The rest of the time, Christmastime, I just was working. And the last time, I came back home. New Growing Methods Riess: Yes. And when you came home, then, you were put right to work? Domoto: Oh, yes. I worked in my father's place. Riess: Were you able to incorporate new techniques and learning about fumigants and things when you came home? Domoto: Not that as such. But I'd help the boys do something, and, "Oh, university man, he knows how to do it." You know, slurs. "Oh, he knows how to do it, because he's a university graduate." Riess: They probably were just dying to have you make a mistake. Domoto: Yes. Well, even if I did make a mistake, unless it was real bad they wouldn't say anything about it. I more or less got used to that before, because when the workers wanted to buy buckles, you know, you kind of learned what's happening, and since my father employed quite a few students from Japan, I got to know the quality of work some of them did, and some of them didn't. Some 96 were students- -they probably got the family to send them there so that they wouldn't have to get into the draft in Japan—military training, not draft, military training. Some were pretty good growers . I learned several things from them. But as far as horticulture, only one man, and he was from a small agricultural college that started in northern Japan, my father said he was the first one he ever got from a Japanese agricultural school that was worth anything. The others used to make fun of him, just like the early days, anyone who had graduated from Davis, he wasn't the same as a UC graduate. Davis was part of the UC, but at that time it was considered an "ag school." And so when you graduated you were a degree under, in the grade standard. Riess: But was it really true that the material they were learning [at Davis] was not as valuable? Domoto: I would say some things they were ahead, but most of them were for the conditions there [Illinois] that I learned. But then as far as other parts, certain parts, the mechanical and other features, it was good. So when the nurseries around here in California got larger or modernized, a lot of the things they followed were things that they were doing back East. Out here the foremost greenhouse teaching was at Cal Poly. The competition between California- grown flowers and greenhouse -grown flowers in the Middle West, especially in chrysanthemums, was pretty pronounced, and the California growers were getting the top price, because we would be able to get them in earlier than the Middle West. They had experiments [at Ohio State] to shorten the days. They were starting to use black cloth, or satin cloth, over the cheesecloth. That experiment was made , and some of the more advanced growers here took that up right away. I was still in college at the time, and you'd hear. "Those damn Japs out there, we made an experiment, and they do it before we do." It was done for them, but they didn't get into doing that; they got so they could produce early, but out here, they're producing earlier. Riess: That sounds also like a familiar attitude of Americans. Domoto: Right now your auto industry --that's an example of this, more than anything else. And not just Japan, but Germany too. The same. Some country gets far ahead, and for a long time- -even now, I think- -some of them think, "Oh, there's nothing like English horticulture." Well, they're living on their laurels, not only in agriculture or horticulture, but as far as the historical prominence of England as such. 97 After War I, and War II, they [the British] were already decayed, as far as history. You had the Roman Empire, and then the others going on, Teutonic era. At one time England was --"The Union Jack flies over the world," or something like that. And right now, we're in that position. The U.S. is the- -not only financial, but militarily, we're the number one country so far. Riess: I'd say militarily more than financially! Domoto: Oh, financially, ten, fifteen years ago, we were still the giant in finance, too. But times have changed. Riess: The next number one is going to be what? Domoto: I don't know. I remember my history class at Stanford, and the professor was an ex-army man, teaching modern history. I think his name was Professor Lutz. He said, "Modern civilization has traveled from Asia through Europe, and then finally to U.S. And it's traveling westward now." At that time, the United States was just coming into being on an equal with England, because England still had all those big colonies. "After it hits the United States," he said, he would hesitate to know which way the civilization would go, whether it would go back to the East or Southeast [Asia] or down into South America. Civilization is going that way, and it's hard to tell which way it was going to go at that time. 'Passport" to Home. Spring 1926 ## Riess: What was the degree you received from Illinois? Domoto: I think that it was a bachelor's degree, and I think they had a horticulture [department], so it would be in horticulture. Riess: Did your parents come back to see you graduate? Domoto: I didn't even go back there. I finished in mid- term, because I had to transfer in the fall- -I had three courses that I had to finish in order to get my degree, so I finished in February, or January. Then I made a trip. I knew it would be the last trip I would take that way, so I took the train to Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., New York, went to Niagara Falls, and I went to the Statue of Liberty. 98 At that time, it being winter, there were very few visitors to the island, so I was able to go up into the statue way up. There was a point where they had an observation platform, and most of the visitors would only go that far. From there up, there's another series of ladders that go up into the torch, and I was the only one on. The fellow said, "I'll stay here, you can go up, but don't take too long." I was able to go up into the torch. Riess: Did you have a camera with you on that trip? Yes. I took some pictures then. At Niagara Falls, that was the year that it was really cold, and almost frozen over. So I didn't take pictures there. Domoto: And then into Canada, and the train, when it came back to the States, it came back and the conductor said, "Where is your passport?" He thought I was supposed to have, but I didn't need one, being a citizen, see. But because I was Oriental, they started checking. I said, "No, I'm just on the way home from college." Then he asked me other questions, finally said, "Okay, come on back. " Riess: Those must be strange moments. You feel at home, and then suddenly someone makes you feel not at home any more. Domoto: Yes. But after a while you get to the point where you're questioned about a lot of things because they're not sure. I'd accept it and not be resentful , except when they woke me up at night in my berth. [laughs] Then you get kind of mad, start telling them--. Sometimes you get kind of exasperated, because the people that are questioning are so dumb. Riess: You said when you were woken up at night? Domoto: Yes. On the transcontinental train, at the time that you're asleep, and it so happened that was the period where the train would come back from the Canadian side into the U.S., and the border, immigration group, you know--. Riess: They would sort of rattle you out of bed, and say, "Who are you?" Domoto: Yes. Acacias in Bloom Riess: On that trip what else did you do? 99 Domoto: I went to Cornell, visited there, mostly on the horticulture side. I wanted to see what ay other college would have been. [laughs] I saw my first ice hockey game there. Riess: Did you have any family members on the East Coast? Domoto: No, all our families are out here. My cousin's family, they were all most of them—during that period, I guess they were in Japan, except the older cousin, he was in- -this is War II, he was already in Denver. I think the rest of his family were in Japan. Riess: On that trip were you seeing the world through the eyes of a nurseryman? Do you get excited when you see different plants and trees? Domoto: Oh, yes. Different things. Like going to the New York Botanical Garden. I was impressed with some things, and some things I kind of sniffed at. And now, in a trip back it's mostly by plane, and you don't see much from the airplane. You just go by. Riess: Were you considering locating anywhere else other than California? Domoto: Only time that came up was at the time of the evacuation. My brother took a trip to the southern states where camellias were being grown in quantity, seeing if there was any place where we might relocate to. But he didn't find much of anything, and then I came back here and started going on from where I left off here. I don't know how train travel is now with Amtrak, but in those days, a trip from here to the Middle West or East, the Plains area is the most monotonous part of the ride. But the rest of it is quite interesting. So instead of going back the same train every trip, I made use of [the choice]. My first trip over I tried to get there as fast as possible. That was Western Pacific. Then coming back, I came back the Santa Fe. Next trip, Southern Pacific, again to get to Chicago to get back to school, leaving home as late as possible. Then coming back I came back by the Canadian Pacific. You go through the Canadian Rockies, and then down. The things I remember about California is being asleep at night as you come in on the train. Then in the morning you wake up in the Sierras, and this was the spring, and you see all the acacias in bloom all at one time. I remember the fall colors in the East, but the bloom of the acacias in the spring, coming from the snowy country, sloshing around in the snow, and all of a sudden it's spring and you feel the difference. 0) O (0 O fc A 10 §§ U = (0 0) • •H S >i O O A C.C «J •H .Q H Q> = H +J 0) •H ns WHO 0) ^ 4J • •HMO C fc Q ^0 JS *O O-H -POO 0*J t" O M >O D -P tt) C -P •H Q) b J3TI-H 0 0 M •H 4J W ^^ -l >1 d O W •H £ •< (**»>•« ]_ *>±- ••St-H*' •3^eVA^- 255 o in I u> to £ a (ft ^',j I * II 7S (t 3 O (I *« O O o u re a -1 1 i 1 1 1 I 1 r° — Cn *• f^ to •^ «— c 3 — ( a O -1 — 1 7S O O Q 7S *. n" ^- ^ ~ 1» = f § 5 o Domoto 2. 3 n £ S Q O a. o o 3- _ n l» 3 re _ 33 9: I I • a g S 3 I S -i; ^D i tj i i f S» 5 c- "' *A* s1 — a -e. ^ ^J fc ? * f 256 I? 9 o o o O § $$ }r •» * * [ u I I o B. ° o -I O 9. 3 E I li = O 2 o o o !T 3 O c *- O -5 _ c 59 ° (t 2. -P Q. g_ ^ I 9 6 Q. q s: ^°: CO O ^ o n ri If ss H If n O * »• * » * 1 I o o * O o * Q O ^B •* ! ** * Q S" O o o o 2. o" O c O n 8- 257 c- 1 i i s 3 5 o o g a. o | 3 0 ? o ^ 5 § § € ^»)^ | 9- s. a » 1 i \ * 5*> 1 ^ f 7T -S 1 n o ? £ o° ' £ 5 25- 81 ' n r \ rt n C ( 3 S^l i- 1 ?§> ||f 11 | S § 1 30 S- S oo 0 C > — I *f e* E *1 1 ' fc. s. s» " *• L n o_ 2 - to u to - CO so f | 1 I o2 ? 1 i r ? i So S o g g "o <§ = •< —r Z? o Z o 3- ° -7 :T *" 2l c c ~< ', ~7 O C 0 o =- > ° "= |f I 3 ^* — • o £.. i ! 3- » a*. fr (V ^" t I tl f « ^* * c • Q S • o S" o o o x' 0 8 a- ?: o 6 g 0 « £' I § ^n O -H O i ° n o. -i a a* ^6 n Q. I I L 5 3= sii, C M -fi °" ^ l» S 5s * ? o 2" o" o ^ o o i: p 4» <§ | o 5 3 | o ? •§ 1^ I i 258 Q 3 Q o o o Q. 5' Q. ? ~ 8- O A 3" ft ^. (5 -» z -< 1 1 1 CO ro — — ( I o 8- 0 o! 0 n 5> ^^ i^\ n ^^ ft 3- n 3 0 3- r Q o Q. o O O o g a 3 Q~ n o O o o o i. QL O n o o T CO n Q o_ 0> o o 3 3 O 8 259 vv S D w> o =: 3 I KJ sr r i'? o o 1 7 2P S I O i? 3- 3 3: o •*> t/> -< 3-0 s- o — •< frs *f -<• o If t o o o. S. I L — t •< £ Q I s- c O i a o o \ o o (? Q. ° O O O S' O (O o I n o re a n' o 2. m o_ 0 0 q o o 3 o' Q. O O l/l c o o •< »«- c jj O n O o — i O O O 0 o o cc o o. - g- ' C o (O O Q ^:- v> a. mo Q. -D 3 Q Q. = o 3 re <* o 3 O o Q o o 5. o o n V. u §• o o Appendix B The University of Illinois floriculture students took annual inspection trips to major garden flower shows. This was Toichi Domoto's report from his March 1925 trip to St. Louis. The final words, THE END OF A PERFECT INSPECTION TRIP, are followed by the words, typed in red, "Will be remembered by 'Squee gee To ma ta1 for some time." *»* * o %$&&. o 261 "All aboard", called the conductor on the "I. C. Milk Special*1 for Decatur and thus started the annual f loricultural students-inspection trip. St. Louis wae the objective, and"£tan"Kall and"Doc "7,'einard were our guardians. The bunch Boon settled down to the old pastime of "hearts" to while away the time as we passed thru the level cornfield district on the way to Decatur. Mr. Hall for some reason seemed tS be a champion in the game of "hearts" and carried the sweepstakes during the entire journey. Ke was able to scow Kiss Williams how to get tne queen later during the trip. We were greeted at Decatur by Vr.Daut and by that heroie group of rough riders who wore red tied instsad of bendana handkerchiefs. Our first stop was at the retail store of Daut Brothers. -3 he windo display was typically "springy". Eulbous stock and spring flowers with a smirking of Easter goods made the window very attractive. .A large handle basket filled witn Butterfly roses, dyed the color of Burpee's Orange sr;ee peas, made many of us ask, " what is the n&n.e of thic beautiful rose?". In the rear or' tne store a bride's bouquet was in the caking; a. completed Veid's bouquet of ths dyed Butterfly roses" snowed the possibil ties of coloring roses to n:atch the cclcr- of towns, should natural colors oe unsuitable for the purpose. ( c-12 incurs is tne tize required to dye) The basement of the store is used for mossing designs and packing room during the busy season. A Xroeschell cooling ir.achine in the bcse-Ler.t furnishes the coolint tedium for the ice box. One could easily see from the wraps hanging up in the mezzanine floor tnat tne help in the store was composed mostly of women. Baskets of th* types called for. commonly by the trade filled the remainder of this % floor. The second floor is a store rooa for shipping boxes, odd baskets, files, and etc. As we were going out J'ary l'.illiaa.s spotted the store pet, a gay polly, and tried to get acquainted by saying hello, but was greeted by & raucous "Good Eye". Tne time being short, we hurried on to the pot plant range of Deut Brothers. The houses in tnis range v;ere of Koninger construction, semi-iron ridge and furrow. Part of the;:, were east and west houses, end the others | notth and south. A few things of note at this range were the callas growing in pot. plunged in manure; the sweet pea house, with its ground beds ar.3 rows abo three feet apart. Wires stretched parallel along the groung and at the toj with strings running vertically and across furnished the supports for the -•' - o 262 peas; and the metnod of growing cyclamens in benches in light soil until of a size suitable for 3 or 4 inch pots. Tnis is a method found in use at the various establishments visited during the trip. - The new range a couple of blocks away «ss devoted to out roses and carnations with intercrops of spring bedding stocks. Tne first house entered, a semi-iron one 32'xi50' served for propagating house. Tne 6 other nouses were all iron framers ofi the American Greenhouse Co. make. Each house being 37'x 300'. The heating plant consists of two boilers 150 horsepower each. Mr. Daut told us tnat they ere going to heat the pot plant range from this new heating plant and thus do away with the hot water heating system in use at the old range. All the cut floors are sold in there own store, no selling is done at the new range. Spring bedding stock is not handled at the stoee in town but from the pot plant range. Re arrived at tne station and left Decatur at about 10:40 on a more pretentious and cleaner coach for Pane. /gain, J,he nrcu{_h riders" beat us into torcn. However, this time they were waiting for us at the hotel. Sedans galore carried us to the St. Francis Hotel where we were the guests of the V,. A. Ami ing Co. for luncheon. It seemed as tho the whole town nad come out to greet us, such was the air of cordia lity end welcome. LJusic was provided and everyone BBS satisfied, except Eeudy who was ratner downcast, because the " Girl in Fed" did not tarry long enough after playing, to. hear niu, 1st loose with :iis es.crcus lines. The first range visited was that of the An.ling Co. This range consists of four units of seven nouses each. These are ridge and furrow, Iron framers 37'*300' long. This is a very good width as it rill accomodate seven benches each 43" wide and leave an 18"incn walk. Four rows of roses are planted in the bench and the house when filled nas in it about 52,000 plants. Two gnits have separate grading and cool rooms, while the two otners are combined in one large ouilding wnich nouses the heating plant and the offices. Ten men and a foreman take care of each unit. Tne cut from the unit at tne time of our visit being in tne neignbornood of 210,000 per aay with a crop of about 250°000 or 260, OOO et Mother's $ay. Four Horizontal tubular boilers of 150 h.p. each furnish the steam necessary for tne four units, but during tne coldest months ($ec. 1§ -April 15 tfa) steam is used from tne heating plant of tne Eana Flftcal Co. to heat our of toe1 units , as in this way it will not be an ovev.load on the boilers. o O 263 Nine to ten thousand tons of coal is necessary to heat this modern ."rose factory ". The roses are graded by arranging them on the tables according to length and then bunching from the ihe end with the long stems. The bunches have 25 flowers in them and are wrapped around the buds with a special butter paper to present the petals from bruising. These are shipped to the wholesale market in corrugated boxes, heavily wrapped in paper in winter and lighter and iced during the summer. St. Louis and Chicago are the two main markets to nbicn they snip. Mr. jimling gave us an idea as to phe production of the different varieties being grown: Colunbias 34 flowers per year Premiers 32 » " " Butterfly ~-^--- — 4* " " " (third year) "Sensation does very well with us. Re have no trouble with the color tnis we attribute to the fact tnet we grow it in g&° until buds form end then increa»e to 62° cefore bloom in order to get the good color". The Columbia roses are run thru without resting. The blind wood is thinned out in May and trie piants fed. The roses a»3e syrinfeec" regardless of v.eether, end as yet they haa?e had no trouble with Black spot. If the sun ie not shining on the cay they are to syyinge, the temperature of the house is slightly increased and the ventileto'rs at the top opened to alloy: the iiioisture laitier air- to escape. o? A1 TA5JA, 3LV1KOTS S. Service and grading rij with cooler B. Boiler House B Boiler roose of Pana F The service building con neeted with the boil-; serves for the two units ifl Pana Floral Co. Boil«i o o 264 Pans Floral company's rose range were the next ones to be visited by ue. The houses run east and west and are of the even span type, but built with a large house alternating with one about one half its size. .A large.. detached iron frame house 60feet bj 400 feet WL.B on the south side of this range This size house is not the best size for commercial houses as the cost per souare foot of ground space covered increases considerately after the 40 foot limit is reached. Another thing which is against this house is the feet tnet the two north benches are always shaded during the winter. Elevation of Pana Floral Cocpany Range. A short v.-alk across the field of about one block brought us to the factory of the /aericar. Greenhouse manufacturing Co. v;iiere Mr. F. J. Impey was our guide. Tnis company Duilds about 1,000,000 square feet per year. Due to the increase in the ouildint, of greenhouses in the East, another factory is being built in ^eK Jerspy. Clear tank cypress is the only wood used in construction of the wooden members of the greenhouses put up by this concern. A nerc drip proof gutter of galvanized iron of the modified V type seemed to be quite satisfactory, judging from the eppearance.s of tne Amling and other ranges. The cost per square foot of glass area is about $1.00 for the standard type house. The iron structural members are all painted with brushes, and the wooden members are painted with an air brush. Sweet peas, tne finest that I have ever seen were in bloom «,at the mum and sweet pea range of Meton Brothers. The peas were growing in the beds prepared right on the floor of the houses. A six inch board served to hold the soil in place. The beds are 4 feet wide, and the peas are planted across the beds, the rows are 14 inches apart, with four groups in a row. The seeds are started in pots after clipping tne seed coat to insure even germination. Five seeds are planted and later thinned out to three. Bone meal is used on the benches at the rate of 50 pounds to 150 feet of bed. TJie unusually O •;•-: *• o 265 long stems and large flowers were accounted for by, the fact that tne flowers had been pinched until a short time before our visit to the place. A full crop was expected for Easter. The peas are started in 42° tempera ture and gradually increased to 5£° night temperatire. The peas are buncned and shipped to the Stj Louis Wholesale cut flower market. The rose range of Aser Erotners was visited ne»t and then that of Webb and Spanbauer. Mr. Epanoauer is an experienced grower, having been with E. G. Hill and Joe hill for twenty five $ears. Two of their houses had been ^planted into young stock while; the other two were filled with young rose plants and othes: miscellaneous crops. Souvenir de Claudius Fernet budded on Eosa cdorata rcere ir. good condition. V.r. Spanbeuer is in fever of grafted while wnile the Anlinfe Co. had own root stock or. their range. An idea as to cost of this range was given by Mr. Impey. the four 37'X300' houses together »;ith toiler room and cooling rooa, and a l^Oh.p. boiler cost 360,000. This an.ount does tot include the cost of plants, but practically everything that is necessary for the running of the range. Vie were verj fortunate in being allowed to visit the coal ir.inee oi the Penisell Coal Wining Co. After being fitted out v.ith rr.ir.ers hets, cerb: lamps, electric torches, ve entered the sine by riding down a cage 750 f< into the ground. This is the deepest operating mine in Illinois. The cueei sensation of falling is akin tc that of going dowr. in a. swift elevetor, b» after a few seconds the feeling is reversed and I felt as the I was going be shot out of the mine. These cages are balanced and the ceble measured so that when one cage is at the top, the other is at the bottom. The mine was well ventilated and much cleaner tnan 1 expected. An " electric mule" pulled the two straw laden toal trucks to the end of the V mine where the coal was being dug. "Eooms"are opened up varying dister.ees and the coal taken out, after which the mouths ere sealed for safety and better ventilation. The boring is done with hand and machine drills, aft which the vein is blown down with dynamite. The coal is loaded in as lar a lump as possible into the trucks which hold in the neighborhood of thre tons. These loaded cars are drawn by moles to the loading platform from wnere the llectric locomotives pull it to the shafts. The miners ere pai from $1.75 to $2.25 per ton. for mining. Our trip underground covered abo five males. All the mine is propped with braces of pine end other wood. pot costing from ten to forty cents each. The electric current necessary for lighting the mine and opereti the electic motors and locomotives is generated at this plant. 250 volts - , .. . O. O " : ';•- : -r O 266 ie the voltage required to operate the electric care. Tge ventilating apparatus consists of a large blower wnich blows the air into the mines. the foul air comes out thru the shaft. In order to prevent any explosions from coal dust the mines are sprinkled in the winter, this is necessary in this mine because it is a very dry mine. The mine. was an interesting place to visit, but persanlly I was glad to get away from it. Our visit in Pena, ended with supper at the £t, Francis, with appropriate songs and speeches, kr. Amling celled upon the boys with the red ties to sing. v.Taey were1 ably accompa'Eied:on^the3pianorby the ••. "Girl im.red". Mr.' ; Jordan* of the > Fana-Pelladium then sang a selection, followed by one from Buds, who insisted on stalling around the piano esen after his piece had been selected. We left Pana at- 0: 52 on tne Eig Four and arrived in St. Louis about 9. We desired to live in class and consequently took a room on the second flooe of the Stetler, ( even the it was a sample room). o\ Xue ¥\TE\ perfect Y;o\j. tte started out cr. tae second cay of inspection from the Etetler hotel at about ei^ht o'clock, /Ithc I daresay 3!&ny ivould have been late for ar. "j.Eight o'clock" if it had teen held in Urbane. Mr. L. A. Hcerr ai,a his brother, F.. f.'. Kcerr tcck us in their ccrs to the wholesale cutflcv;er market, district. K. G. cerning! B was the firnt place visited. Here v.e were able to see the roses fron Amling1 s being unpacked. The train service is very good and. the cut of the previous day is shipped out ofi Pana at five in the corning and arrives in time fcr the morningB business. The sweet pees of the Jiaton Eros, is also handled by thi firm, lae stock handled by this company is sold on a commission basis. Of the roses, Premier far outnumbered any of tne others. Eutterfly Columbias, Coolidges, end Double white Killarney were the other varieties. Carnations — Laddies rrith stems *$ inches long were in the marke$. TJ«e miscellaneous stock consisted of lupines, calendulas, snapdragons, callas, narcissus varieties, tulips, srceet peas, delphiniums, and greens. The St. Louis Wholesale Cut flcvrer Company's handles besides cv;t flovcsre, florist supplies and pot plants, h fine assortment of potted bulb stock ,v. Jistilbes..:. a f ew Easter lilies, and hydrangeas maoe a very pretty window display for a wholesale house. Wr. Pfender, the manager of the store conducted us thru the place. Long stemmed Uarviin tulips with perfect large O 267 flowers, and the rather scarce jonquil narcissus created considerable com ment on the part of the students. We learned thac tuiips can be stored for 12 days in storage after cutting without any harm. Gardenias, greenhouse grown, and lily of the valley, gave suggestio of flowerssfor weddings. Most of tns flowers shipped to this concern come in corrugated pape boxes, pome very carefully packed and others miserablj. Kr. Pfender stated that the grower would be money ahead if they would use a little more cere i packing as bruised flowers do not keep as long or sell as well. The boxes should be properly lined, and tne stems braced in so that there will be no chance for^the bunches to move around inside of the boxes while in transit. When asked afcout shipping beck empty boxes to the ^rov:ere, Mr. Pfender said that it did not pay the grower to use the old boxes if they nad to be shipp back to him. A 48" *20" bom costs 45 cents, and the cost of flattening and shippingAis at least 10 cents. If cy using the old box a fev; rose buds are broken off, the loss is greater that the difference between the cost oft an ola and new box. Ihese boxes ean, however, be used by the wholesaler at an advantage in shipping out orders for local trade. In this wey the grower ca be reinbursed for, the boxes. A sample room for caskets occupies about one tnird of the a.ain flo space. The second floor is used for s store room for supplies, end everythi is in "apple pie order." Jfhe inspection of tne wnolesele being over (in tize schedule) we le for Lariniore where tne rose range of the St. Louie Bose Cc. is situated. Tb Hcerrs drove us thru the scenic part or the city on the wey to Leriaore, ar. even stopping at Chain of Kocks park to vier; the Mississippi and the new water settling plant. The city of St. Louis nurseries, situated along the r river sida had many young stock coming aloo.g. The range of the St. Louis Rose Co. is situated dm a well drained site, with plenty of room for expansion in tne future. This is the firfct gc example of a well planned, greenhouse renge, built v.ith the thoughts for the future. Space had been, left for an extra boiler in the boiler building, the smoke stack is large enough to take care of the extra boiler. The pumps for pressure and water are in duplicates, FO that should the electric current fail for some reason, the steam pumps can be operated. The water esed is pumped from wells and also from the storage resevoir. During the winter, th water is preheated by the eahau»t steam of the pumps, to make the task of watering easier and also to prevent any checking of growth in plants. ( Last point is theory, nas not been tried experimentally) o 268 The luncheon at the Golf club was evertning thad could be asked for, and many were the happy Bjighs that were given by the students, because we would not have to listen to a lecture in a warm room, but have ever changing scenery as we proceeded on our inspection trip. The pot plant range of the St. Louis fiose Co at Collins Road was in charge of Mr. Day, an experienced Englisn grower. The plants in the houses gave good evidence that quality plants could be grown in a poor house, pro vided that the man knew bow to grew plants. Of the newer things at this range were Double yellow margaerites called double Golden Sounders, fhe bright crimson bracts of the Crimson Lake Eouganvillea and the sweet odor of the Gardenias only helped to empaaeize the beauty of flowers. Calceolarias are sown in August to insure a good percentage of germina tion. Yellow csllas which had been started in the fall were in hj.oom at this tige. Eegonia Melior cuttings potted up in light soil enatiled us to see an example of whole leaf cuttings where the plant develops from the base of the petioles. Giganteum lilies were coming along in fine shape for Easter. In the nev.ei house, cyclamens in pots and in tne cenches, showed thet the bench method of growing young stock of cyclamens is the better method for that. part of the state. The other crops oeing grown did not differ from the general run of plants found in the ordinary greenhouses of size. Fancy leaved caladiums added quite a bit of color to that part of the bench which it oeeupied. Bedding stock for tne spring plantings, filled the major part of the range. Roses for the cut rose range at Larimore is propagated at. this place. OY ST. LO\5IS BOS1 B. E. B. Cooling room Employees dwelling houses Boiler room Engine room Greenhouses Resevoir for water Siding Well The resevoir by the boiler is of oonerete. one part is for liqaid manure QE DP DD o 269 Kirkwood, Missouri was a nice ride from the Collins Road Range. The n. A. Rowe Co. has a two unit range devoted mostly to carnations. There are eight houses 37" * 300' in each unit, all of them being iron framers. The benches in these houses are 42" wide thus allowing seven benches instet of the usual six for one of this size. Judging from the houses seen, the 37* house seems to be the most economical and popular. One range is given over entirely to carnations while the other had four houses of carnations and the remainder in bulbous and spring flowerinj plants. The house known as ."Mr. Rove's Experimental House" was planted in Iris tingitana, Dutcn iris, freetias, and Lupines. V.T. Rowe is very inter ested in the question of bulb growing and it is in this house fchet he is carrying out some of his tests on the bulbs. Iris tingitana produces from sixty to seventy five per cent, whicn is a very good percentage for this bt Lupines in all colors are fine fir novelty decorations but they are hard to handle. A fine cut of daffodils, tulips, and hyacinths were in the cooling room A house of sweet peas, altho they did not compare with those < the ftaton Brothers at Pana, was producing some fair flowers. Mr. Hoerr toll us that tne difference was in the feet that the crop was about over at thii range while thai at pana was just coming into crop. Tnis is another case where it is necessary to keep an accurate record in order to find out the difference in profit between cutting snort stems from November until about March or Cutting fancy stemmed peas from the first of i/arch onward. The changing of soil in the greenhouses is done by the regular help. no other being employed. It is possible to hatoe the soil in these houses changed in two weels time. Soil for the nouses is prepared from sod land. .A* a prevention againct red spider, a salt solution in the strength 4 pounds to 50 gallons of water was being. sprayed on the foliage of the carnations. A paragon sprayer was used. The first azalea plants to be seen on the trip was at the £t. Louis Municipal greenhouses. .. Kinodegiri, He*e» Cfaiistmas Cheer and coral bells being some of the varieties on display in the show room. The feast two ate plant of the Kurume variety. Ficus nitida,a rubberAthat is being used for window boxes worked in very nicely witn the variegated Evonymous japonica argentei variegata to form a background for tne spring show. The pot plant houses are used to grew the plants necessary for the show house and to take care of the bedding stock neeessary to plant the pai of St. Louis. Abutilon Savitzii.a variegated bedding plant was found, in large numbers here. The plants after being in the houses are 'lardsris;1. off cold frames which axe to the south of the greenhouses. o 270 How not to build cold frames was our next lesson, followed by a talk on the use of clcium cyanide for fumigating one half ounce to 1,000 c-ubic feet is a safe dosage to use on tender plants. Mr. Kellog wno is in charge of the propagation of shruHs was net ._ . present, but we were able to see thai he nas good success with mtast of his cuttings. .A ligustrum Quihoui with its very fine leaves looks as tho it might make a good plant for trimming in pots like boxwood. In the old original wooden £ha»; houses, many ofi the bedding stock is propagated, £eed« are mostly sown in sand, pcheveries are planted in light soil in oenches,the tops cut off and tne side buis which develop used for cuttings. Tne alternantheras are coxed up with soil on the bottom and dand on top so teat cuttings can be taken from the tops if necessary. These are pot ted into two or two and one quarter inch pots. SeraHtostigma plumbagonoides, a deep blue perennial blooming in Aug. the Erantnemum atropurpureuiu, a deep ox clood colored foliage plantwere two things not usually seen as Deeding plants. The orcjnid houses, of wiich there are several were provided with a Skinner sprinkler to moisten the air in the houses. \'ents ate at the top, s side, and in tne masonry of tne houses, in order to allow maximum circulation with little opening. The cross houses in this range are used for growing and storing tropical lilies. For this, eorcrfeee ter.ke of varying depths and sixes with bottom heat are used. Pot washer, utilizing water for the motive power had been installed in the service building, but Mr. Kohl told us that tne watear is too cold for use in winter and that in summer tney are too cusy to be washing pots. Peaches, plums, apples, nectarines, pears, and grapes were trained on the walls and fEeifclises in the fruit house, using the method very common in Englisn greenhouse. Pern Houses, tropical nouses, and the sticky cactus house were all very well kept. The large conservatory for tne snow house was rilled mostly with cinerarias. Prom these houses we passed thru the model gardens, the rose gardens, and then the Library. The Hoerrs :..net us and then escorted the group to the famous "Eeso Will" for luncneon. This mall is desigeed on the order of a Dutch V.'indmill and the interior is finished off on tne style of the German Eetskeller Steins and porcelain decorations completed the atmosphere. Tne boys helped carry out some of the atmosphere when they eere served withnsteinsH . 271 Flower pots being a necessary evil for the grower, we visited the Missouri Pottery and Supply §o. Eere- we. saw pots in practically all stgges Clay fortthe red pots is dug from the mound in back of the pottery. The clay for the red pots is mixed in the following proportion 20% white claj lOg dark snafte, and 70% surface loess(free of sand} This clay is then put thru a mixer and roller, which consists of two large PaQdstone wheel eacn weighing 2, 80O*°~pour.ds. and revolving in a steel drum. .After eighteen minutes all the particles are ground into a fine mass and of the proper moisture content* nThis clay is then thrown out by an automatic device ontc a wheelbarrow and is then carted to a compressing machine, which forces tl particles together. The compressed clay comes out of this machine in the f of rolls about 8 incnes in diameter. Tnis clay is then cut to the proper amounts and dipped in a Mixture of 12 parts kerosene, and 1 part lard oil. ( the purpose being to prevent the clay from sticking to tne die. ) For pot smaller than 7 inches, the clay ie again broken up and put thru a cocpre* whicn forces the clay into a diameter of aiout 3 inches. The die consists of two pieees, tne one that is at the base of the machine^ shaping the outside of t.ie pot) and the part that is revolving em comes down to for* tne inside. After a couple of stamps the excess clay is taken off at the sides, and the pot is raised out of the die so that they can be handler- without danger. These pots are laid upon boards and allowed to dry from five to Hen days depending upon the weather, the rough edges rubbed off with;, a piece < canvass and tne pots stacked in the kilns. Tne Kilns are round domed affairs with tile floors upon which the poi are stacked. Toe ourning process takes about ten days. The Kiln is closed and the fires started outside. Tne temperature is gradually raised to aBc 500° or 650" to accustom. the clay to tne temperature and tnen the firing interval is increased so that wnen they end up, they are firing every 2£ minutes, with the temperature in the neighborhood o£ 1$50°. The pets are allowed to coc'i. Coal is tne tuel used. -*, ;sof ooo - 4 272 . • In order to insure an more even and better circulation of beat, white porcelain cups with noles in tne bottom are laid side by side upon the tile floor. , «nd tne pots stacked upem these^ A kiln of S2-f eet inside diameter will fire akout ±50,000 four inch pots, 5'he, brick kiln is reinforced with wide strips of strap iron. Jules Bourdet'-ss Pot plant range is close to Shaw Botanicel Gardens. The semi-iron houses ere of Foiey construction, and even span ridge and fur row type. Tnis modern range is one that has oeen remodeled from an old one which Mr. Bourdet took over. The service house extends clear thjt one end of the houses and is wide enough so that trucks can drive right in an load up in front of the various houses. Hydrangeas, Lilies, pot roses, and bulb plants filled the major part of the Bange. The Hydrangeas ere all pot grown, oeint plunged into the •_ . ground during tne summer to prevent drying out. When asked whether he fed or treated the nydrangees in order to feet the deep fclue color, Mr.Eourdet replied tnet he did not . Tne iausenschoei-., Ideal, Dorothy Perkins, Excelsa ar.d a fev; other Eush roses are all eastern and California grown stock. Eor.e meal is not used, the only ccairercial* fertilizer used -being & a liquid fertilizer w;iich he gets fro::. Chicago. This applied with a special pump rigged up on a wooden carrel from e Ford vreter puirp and a email electric motor. Kith this rigging he is afcle to feed in less then one half the time formerly required to feed. The propagating house, ienches are made of concrete, with wood bottom. The bottom neat is furnished from a three inch pipe and from two two inch pipes. The temperature oelow the bench gets very high ( ) but he is alfcle to Keep the sand at the right temperature. Many things such as~coleus can be roofeec in a little over a week with good percentage. The cool house for iis outside stock consists of a greenhouse fran:e covered over with boards. Some lilacs and hydrangeas were being kept back in here for Motheds and Memorial Day. "Oteheit oranges in pots are good sellers when the fruit sets on themj'seid Mr. Eourdet. Eief f enbachiastHiay make good house plants but are not edible, is the verdict rendered t>y W-ayy Williams and " Teddy" Eaer. u That we might follow the course of the plants, MB. Eoerr took us to Grimm and'Gorley's retail store. This is probably the beet equipped retail store in the Diddle west. The Pour stories of the building are all useei by the company. The basement for design work; Wain floor for sales and dispiay the second floor for display and salesroom during the rush season* and the o 273 floor for the office force. This firm not only does florist work, but caters to large outdoor and ballroom decorating. For instanee, the setti, for a Venetian Party reqired over two months to build, "but was tore down less than a week, another Elaborate decoration was one in ahich 50,000 balloons were used to simulate bunches of grapes. This firm employes over men, an increditable number for even a store of this size. Vie were all presented with a rose to show that we had been guesta Grimm and Gorley's. A tag with"Eat, prink and be verry for tomorrow you may get a wreath Crom Grimm and Gorleys", gave us the necessary excuse fo returning to the hotel'.in order to clean up for the Florists Uinstrel Sho and dance. The Merry makers di.<4 not return until way after the time ahen most people are in bed. The crowa however was well taken care df because Doc and Mr. Hall did not return until after the crowd. VO.TCU 2$. £ea«\,!(\i; £t. Lcu\s at 9:OO A. '••'.. was net very Difficult but many of us took npps on the way to Springfield. i'.r. Kail had to Hake a few of us to show & picture of his old "ar.r.y boss?. Y.'e visited the retail store of A. C. crcv;n in Springfield end then proceeded out to hex hone where we were their tuests for lunch. The greenhouses of !.'r. Erown are located on a hillside. Roses, fcre the main crop, with bulb stock and bedding plants to fill up the mum hous Eussell, a pink rose which is the standby on the Pacific coast was being grown here. The next place to be visited in Springfield was the store of Hembreiker and Cole. The Window decorations were fitting for Easter. I di not see mmch of it, because of the fact that I ran away to get a picture the Capitol. Spareas for Easter, tulips in cool houses, ferns, young cyclamens,, and carnation mants were at tne first pot plant range of Kemoreiker anfl Cole. At the second range, pot plants and roses are grown. A very even an good sized nouse of Lilium giganteums were coaing in for Easter, the lili; of the Erabu type wnich they had growing did not impress me as being any better than the otner Formosums. The beading stock is all sold from this range, none of it being handled at the store because it musses the floor , • too much. The new rose range wnich was built recently is to be paid for in a short wnile. Mr. t-.embreiker stated that there would be a celecration in connection with it am they nad the money to pay it off already. o 16. w 274 A record of tne number of flowers cut is kept on the -wall of each house. fie were then driven thru the better residential district of Springfield and arrived at the I. I. S, station just in time for the train to Champaign, .A game of hearts was started and continued until we arrived in the old town ofl Champaign, a tired and a probably a more intelligent crowd. IS Tft? fcttt 0? A V.ill be re,:.e'oerec c;. "Ecv-ec bee for ECUS ti:i.e. 275 o Appendix C From Toichi Domoto's University of Illinois memory book 276 LI I c 0 SB441.S C2 Oa4 1940 278 Appendix D OFFICIAL CATALOGUE QaAtiett May 1st to Preview Evening April 30th 5th, 1940 OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA 279 PRESIDERT'S HlESSflGE ABE P. LEACH California Spring Garden Show, Inc. The 1940 California Spring Garden Show represents the cumulative effort of the Pacific Coast to build a per manent flower and garden exhibition for the western section of the United States. And, within eleven years, the Garden Show has expanded to the point where it now receives international recognition. The event is made possible by the unselfish devotion of citizens, organized in horticultural associations and informal garden clubs, as well as nurserymen and own ers of private estates, who have combined their energies in the spirit of community enterprise. The exhibition is unique in that the individual ex hibits are harmonized to present a unified picture or "theme" of unusual beauty, covering some 45,000 square feet within the spacious Exposition Building of Oakland. The 1940 theme, "Gardens of Fairyland," is the second mystical subject portrayed in the medium of flowers. The motif, "Shangri-La," taken from James Hilton's novel, "Lost Horizon," was used as the 1939 Spring Garden Show theme, with a result so appealing that over 100,000 visitors thronged the Exposition Building. "Gardens of Fairyland" are designed to exemplify the charm of a "Midsummer Night's Dream," in which such devices of landscape artistry as fountains, statues of the regal Titania, arches wreathed with climbing roses in bloom, and murals depicting glimpses of a legendary world complement the loveliness of flowers. It was in 1929 that a group of Oakland gardening enthusiasts conceived the idea of producing a show. Their intention was to vary their venture from the cur rent trend in floral displays by introducing garden scenes in which flowering plants would be shown growing in artistic beds within an attractive landscape. Mr. How ard Gilkey, landscape architect and designer of the Cali fornia Spring Garden Show for many years, was of this original group, as were Elsie Gilkey, the late Harold Austin, Arthur E. Navlet, William F. Steinmetz, A. F. Schulte, Henry M. Butterfield, R. C. Bitterman and Joseph L. Callaghan. The latter has often been referred to as the "father" of the California Spring Garden Show. During the first years, his support was one of the chief reasons for the Show's amazing success, and his guid ance throughout its history has been of inestimable value. The first California Spring Garden Show appeared in 1930, the sponsors charging no admission. It was held in the Earle C Anthony Building, through the courtesy of Mr. Anthony. Over 47,000 people attended and many others were turned away. Thus it was proved that the public felt the need of a garden show, rather than the cut flower type of exposition then in vogue. In fact, many people made voluntary contributions, in the hope of encouraging a more lavish display for the following year. With a second show in view, the problem of finding adequate space was submitted to Redmund C. Staats, then chairman of the Board of Supervisors of Alameda Coun ty, who made the suggestion that an admission fee be chareed. Mr. Staats advised the sponsors to make us; of the Civic Auditorium, and it was here that the secon-' California Spring Garden Show was held. It so happened that the design of the second presen tation of garden scenes showed a Renaissance tendency. As a consequence, the 1932 Show was developed with a definite theme in mind, being called "Gardens of the Alhambra." By 1932, public interest made it necessary to seek larger quarters. The new Exposition Building, with twice the capacity of the Auditorium, had been recently com pleted, and it was chosen as the future home of the Cali fornia Spring Garden Show. The "Semi-Formal Gardens" of 1933 were followed, during subsequent years, by "Gardens of the Orient," "Manor Gardens of England" and "Chateau Gardens of France." In contrast to the historical themes, the 1937 Show was designed as "Nature's Gardens." The immense appeal of the wild vista, which included mountain cascades roaring over giant rocks, and hillsides covered with the rosy blooms of rhododendrons and azaleas, brought a repetition of the same theme, with variations in design for the 1938 California Spring Garden Show. Coincident with the floral interpretation of "Shangri- La," last year, which made evident the possibilities of the legendary theme, a radical change was made in size of the Show. It was extended beyond the interior pag eant, to include approximately three-fourths of an acre out of doors. This was given over to garden clubs of northern California. To each group was assigned the pleasant task of creating a small model garden, replete with suggestions for beautifying the outdoor surround ings of the average home. At this point, a third section was included, namely the marque, which houses the trade exhibits of national manufacturers of gardening equipment and accessories. Arthur M. Crugar, who joined the show officials last year, as business manager, has this section under his per sonal supervision and, in addition, acts as general busi ness manager for the organization. This year an elaborate illustrated catalogue has been edited by Dr. T. Harper Goodspeed, Professor of Botany and Director of Botanical Garden, University of California, and prepared for publication by Mr. Crugar. Among over 100 floral exhibits of extraordinary charm, that of the University of California Botanical Gar den always attracts much notice. Discoveries of a Botani cal Garden exploring expedition to the Himalayas and to temperate South America of Joseph F. Rock are included in this year's exhibit. Another display of rare and unusual plants is of fered by the California Horticultural Society, whose ac tivity in introducing new material has resulted in many unique additions to California gardens. Professional flower arrangements of exquisite de sign are always included in a separate section of the Ex position Building, while the Cut Flower Section enlists the special interest of th; home gardener. Here he may exhibit his home-grown blooms, with hope of winning an award. 17 (Turn to Page 78) 280 PRESIDEflT'S IllESSflGE (Continued from Page 17) Cash prizes, totaling approximately $10,000, go to the winners in the various classifications, making it pos sible for the exhibitors to meet, in pan at least, the ex pense involved in creating the individual displays. Prizes awarded to winning exhibitors come from the California State Pari-Mutuel Race-Track Fund, and are authorized and allotted to the Show by the First District Agricultural Association, of which Bestor Robinson is president. Directors of this Association include Dr. Warren Allen, Joseph L. Callaghan, M. G. Callaghan, Peter Hoare, Phil C Riley and Hollis R. Thompson. The steady growth of the Show has been due, in large measure, to the financial support received from the Board of Supervisors of Alameda County, as well as the Council of the City of Oakland. The Board of Directors of the California Spring Gar den Show has insisted that the organization remain non commercial throughout its history, thus perpetuating the ideal of community enterprise which distinguishes the endeavor. All proceeds of one show are reserved toward the end of creating a more elaborate spectacle for the following spring. The Board of Directors meets each week through out the year, the services of all members being donated It has been my pleasure to preside over this energetic organization for a number of years. Other members of the Board are Walter H. Clark, secretary-treasurer; R. C Bitterman, O. Homer Bryan, Julius O. Dohrmann, Edward T. Faulkes. Dr. T. Harper Goodspeed, Arthur E. Navlet, William F. Steinmetz and A. F. Shulte. 281 California Horticultural Journal , July 1969 Appendix E p- » • **M — mm *< vi ,-i ?; p a f^ll^- 8 |p|lr|p :*5'S-=.5-§i-0 l*Jff*i«IJr* , „.„ J£ S-i K 5T. 3- 2.7* «» « =• « «^ „ ~**:i!rll S B-* S- § _6 — S 9 W*$mf hill o s-^ " c *_, 5- S * 2 c n v S 2 's " = sf oil z 88-3 §• =1 => o oo rr r: O O » 2 O «£> i * =e g- i s W £ i.i i g-a °-5 > «>• a a or _ a 3 0= H — = ula j -i s •< ' e 9i B- <** i «r£ « S =" Sa?ps; sS'S s^g-g'H-g' o5aoS-scaa-es::Si^:tt.> ^ e » 1*1 C ' r^^SB-^oSg" » !.«* H-.S = - a-"* '« " g i|-"f ss.S 5 -- ° OQ S S.qo o- o 3SS = = 3as. llllllll Ii!l6"£ 2 jr j; _. _ ' — < 5' 2 » p S ^5T» n ?»-a- >2 S c S : .1* Sad • «H - 3^ « g" §*£-§ * srr a- < •« ™ c o s g" - JroS^V^!!! c f.-:rtf«J|f O r*s S' ** S S>! » o » S S Sg-=:o *^ u ^ . i? v> S-3. ^ii. .srl S-HO C " 2 So-1, §§ S:a § n g o 1 9f g s o. o. s oo n mi -. S.?"5' r B ^— w» « *< rr Jf-g Fc g _.? o- o. re 9 o. 3 ." :S«.»>o-''>(£S3"1 .s.5 lira ? 5 JTS ?1 3 B-P = S c » CTOQ s* 3 *o <* cr cr o 2K-«35^-o5S -•^OKJ^^tXvi -^ *< SoSl^ss-re^l^-s-S" E«ntlftf "l^iti o IP 2 -. 'S S3 3 o-. 0--U ^ .<" 3_ "tfc 55-i's IX P* 3 C 3" " P*B • JC K a ^. rt — ^ o z c 171 JO O -o a iiuwm zn - 5- - a *i g 3 5 *f r.a TJ ' ?' 3 re ' : n 3 os-o- «8BtVfs:*8s- nirfulr 3.C. ^ = 2 "-S '• 2 • ?• x-3_3 E 5 2. o D W. a*:* 2 5'°^ osiss. 1D-^2. s- 8 5-^--" I ^ f ,o g""-*^ •^50= §13 f«?ll 1" SV T tb « rt ll| c^s- •Ill 3I2 8J-B.R 3 S o o- S a 3 8 S ? 282 * o :•«"•„ o 11 • • d s. ^3?lg £& HIM' *WLftS'5« &.£"«» t=o - N> =" b i C. f o n ,*.•§ jf 3 :_i " S; o S ar>SR" '^s «s-S^£ § ^s ll^-t -g. ci|8.& :sg: nO-S'? i?2r)=a-i a.-*- KJ °- NJ-*k- S 55 H =-« E-3- =e «.- ?s-g .0=.§*=<"' „ - q o " • M L. C*a• cwog'Sas-- i*="* s^slso" !'?!:>:, S 2 3-3-5 S.gS S 9.^5 =''1-23 s rf J ^ ^ G n z c g to S Z . 283 s-ifri:s" = ~5-=s s-8,58.3o«>:33_~ ITr*i£""l._f rl £,§' i?1 STS:* • « -o cr p < "S-H-Jas, arlb^lP sf "i H" ^ 2 *^" 5 -• K rt^—- C3 = 3 " 8 " r>2.= a.S s _ ^ ET| " * !?»" §" l|s^ls--3 .fg^Hr . a „ - 8s,i-§-' S 3 a o PS :SJTI •^ *r = 2. Pf £ V) VO » 3 r* 3- „ v>* »i o *< £L v * J °°§iHS-" ,15 rllrif ~- §'*** «-t^^o2. («*Ua*rt'*ttw5 £L-i c-g-g 3:2.3 ||T| » ri* : I I z I tn » •< > 284 *** s--H|gd Ere'-aSH? fflrfe - g O Z-3 S |-Ssa8S» ilsp;** |$l 8 gsS* >|5-*sr5' ~ K-B a ; . » 5'3-s st" S 8 5-2. 3° = fIL§ -S-8 ~j? l!**e »^*al rs trs-8 rc'-ol" *H*-. $ Q 9- t n y ^ n • 5 " o — ri£ 5 3 v. s = =.g S°° a 44tN£i 5rs-««S^is1«S KiHtHsF! 3 ifS- kt-l-i li&ri 5'^3 c^"- C. J° W V0~< r. ^9!3 l^stf0 »I I5*l-12 •fl 2.\o O .^ g js w o p\ =•••: B.S S ftfi-1 Pg- S'&S s ffi s.S- a S,8'5P< rs ilfflklilff E. B 8 B B !T B" * <" £.- S a- * ^s o g %*1fjrc»| IblmJ^ 2 n <5 5-7 2 'S E =T _ 2 5-s4 *" 3 1 sr- W° S Eipf«ia±Ilffi*' 5 r^Ss-a^Eg-3:-^13^^- c H:§- filler 3 a =.-« fr^s s =<_. S <= a S S.-3 s tllLil|Irff|l^lJ|iin^ a*I,i, R-^^S-^S s sr S S c S- S -o DTl 1 O < » S.?- = 3^ f5^ OB- o>- ac ' riSar s7' K» ?^v '«J»ii Iks-' i*?:iii — < H". ° * " S S c ; 5 » r> « O- = I rii Irislft "i-^i^fi • • • rt 2. ; ^2 •b. £ PS " 3 w 3 3- ft.R 5'o. ii J1 S«. 3 I o c o 50 3 •o B 2 =r-o " 'L? S So §•1 •1 *X1 -xo » ' «.' CO 2 Ki I' » ss-9- a- I Z I >8 K ^ 3 3 El • 3 o 285 Appendix F AN INTERVIEW WITH TOICHI DOMOTO Conducted by Suzanne Rless in 1981 Copyright fcT) 1982 by the Regents of the University of California All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between the Regents of the University of California and Toichi Domoto dated June 5, 1981. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California at Berkeley. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, 486 Library, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. The legal agreement with Toichi Domoto requires that he be notified of the request and allowed thirty days in which to respond. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows : Toichi Domoto, "An Interview with Toichi Domoto," an oral history conducted 1981 by Suzanne Riess, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 1982. 287 TABLE OF CONTENTS — Toichi Domoto I DOMOTO BROTHERS NURSERY Customers Japanese Gardeners Bulb Salesmen The Persimmon Quarantine Number 37 Cottage Garden Nursery, Eureka II TOICHI DOMOTO' S EDUCATION Jobs for Japanese Stanford, and University of Illinois Cosmopolitan Club Tom Domoto, Propagating and Hybridizing Chrysanthemums III FILOLI, POST WORLD WAR II Bulbs Toichi, Troubleshooter IV MISS ISABELLA WORN V APPRECIATING THE CHARACTER OF GARDENS VI TEACHING THE SKILLS; FLORICULTURE SCHOOLS VII ITALIAN GARDENERS VIII PRUNING AT FILOLI 288 I DOMOTO BROTHERS NURSERY [Interview 1: May 26, 1981 ]//# Riess : Domoto; Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess : Domoto: Yours is the name that always comes up in relation to Filoli, no other supplier. The other ones that were supplying services there — did Mrs. Roth mention, while I think about it, a tree service man from Davey? No, they used Davey? I think he was connected with Davey or they may not have used Davey, but he was a Davey-trained man, let's put it that way, and I think he lives in Palo Alto. We can supplement if I find out because this man was probably advising them along in the fifties, I guess. I don't think before that. There was someone else before [Leslie] Thiringer. [Louis] Moraconi? No, Moraconi is [not it], another — He was the last of the — there was Do you mean as head gardener? Head gardener, yes. Moraconi was in charge of the Italian group there, more or less in the bedding plant group, but as far as I remember, I don't think he was in charge of the full yard area. Customers #//This symbol indicates that a tape or a segment of a tape has begun or ended. 289 Domoto; Rless: Domoto: Rless : Domoto: Riess : Domoto: Rless : Domoto: Riess: We supplied — my father's nursery, Domoto Brothers, Inc., and Toichi Domoto Nursery — plants to Filoli long before I got to meet Mrs. Roth, because it went through Miss Worn. A lot of it Miss Worn would pick up in her own truck and take it on down. So you were sort of wholesaling to Miss Worn? Miss Worn, yes, and not knowing where they were going, just like a lot of the plants she was buying went to the Hearst estate at San Simeon, and after she bought them, "Well, this is going to the Hearst estate." Her idea when she was dealing with my dad — see, Dad was the old school: if he knew that someone wealthy was going to buy it, maybe the price would go up! [laughs] Really, that is the old school? too, I'm sure! That sounds like the new school, I've forgotten who the Piedmont customer was that came down one day in an old car. Dad said, "What is the matter? Did your other car break down?" He said, "No, I thought if I came in this car, you would give me a better price!" [laughter] Those were the days of the Pierce Arrows and the Locomobiles — that was a prestige car in those days. If they came in a Pierce Arrow, you know that they had the wealth to go with it. But plant materials seemed very, very cheap then. or were they very cheap? Is it relative No, good materials were still high. Yet as far as it was cheap in the point of view of the dollar, but then you figure out a person working all day is only getting a dollar. Yes, but in this article, when the maples were 35 cents and a hundred for $35. Yes, but you are only getting a dollar a day. But your trade was not the dollar a day trade. Japanese Gardeners * "Toichi Domoto, Nurseryman," by William E. Schmidt, California Horticultural Journal, Vol. XXX, No. 3, July 1969. 290 Domoto: No, but your help — that means your economy is at that point, so that your trade and everything, they are thinking in those terms. We have the trouble right now even, the older generation, they will say, "Hey, Domoto, find me a good Japanese gardener or a gardener who knows something about it." I say, "Yes, I can find you one probably, but I won't promise you anything." "Oh, I get gardeners but they don't know anything." I say, "The ones that know are going to cost you some money." He says, "How much?" Well, they are used to thinking in terms of the prewar or postwar when their gardeners , they got two and a half or three dollars an hour they thought they were paying them a good price. Now if a gardener charges him six to ten dollars for just pushing the lawn mower they think they are getting robbed. Yet they will go to the garage or a plumber — Riess: Oh sure, but we kiiow we're getting robbed by the plumber! [laughs] But actually there are gardeners and gardeners . I mean if it is just go ing to be mowing the lawn, then would you expect that gardener to know plant materials? Domoto: They should, but unfortunately they don't. Too many of the young ones that have gone in either are of a group that had no other openings and went in for gardening either because economy-wise or else — I hate to put it this way — mentally they are not sufficient enough to do anything else but pushing the lawn mower. Riess: You are saying this is almost traditionally the case? Domoto: No, the original Japanese gardener that came here, they had nothing that they could go into that was better. So I would say that their I.Q., if such a thing can be measured, was higher and not only that, I think their interest was a lot more intense because their livelihood depended on being able to keep that job. You don't have a welfare state to depend on. If they didn't get that job, they would have to go back [to Japan]. They can't say, "I'm hungry. I need an extra few dollars for my family." There was nothing like that. Riess: What was your father like? A real entrepreneur it sounds like. 291 Domoto: Yes, and then I think of what they did. We talk about the older — the second — generation, those that did make a name for themselves, when we think back to what they did, why, I don't think any of us would have had the guts to do what they did or the way they did it. They were really gamblers. Riess : Was the community very supportive when your father took the risk of starting the nursery? Domoto: No, no, they were really anti. They had to buck everything. It was the only way. Riess: Was there a Japanese community already? Domoto: No, when my father came there was no Japanese community, just a small [group], very small in 1883. Riess: So he took a risk at the beginning. Domoto: Yes. Most of the plants that came were unknown here. The fact that plants were coining in from Japan, [there was] interest in plants from Japan, and then the plants from Europe, probably the salesmen from those countries were good and that is the way they came in, started in. Bulb Salesmen Riess: I wondered how he got his connections with the bulb dealers in Holland. Domoto: The Hollanders used to send their salesmen over every year and it used to be quite a thing. Each bulb company would try to send their bulb salesman in. They were supposed to leave at about the same time. Of course, there were no planes. There were boats and, of course, there could only be a certain number of boats coming in. Then the Transcontinental and the Pacific Coast, there was a race to see who was going to hit the market first. They know which of the growers buy the most bulbs, so they will try to hit him first and see if they can get the bulk of the bulb order. That was the race for the Dutch bulbs. The plant business before quarantine was mostly not so much Hollanders but the Belgians. Riess: That was the azaleas? 292 Domoto: The azaleas, English bays, Araucarias, they were all grown trees. They would come in by boat to New York and then come overland by freight all crated up and then they would uncrate them and they would use them like in the front of the Palace Hotel, the Fairmont Hotel in those days, some hotels even bigger — most of the hotels, very few apartments, and even the private residences would all have these — you see in some of the old pictures these Bay trees, Laurus nobilis, those were the standards or pyramids. They came all ready in these cedar tubs, already grown. Riess: At that point, your father had his catalogue? Domoto: Yes, he had put out a catalogue earlier. They were sort of an import catalogue and evidently what they did was, the orders were taken against the import stock and as the stock came in, the orders were filled. In the fall of the season when they came in, the orders would be filled as they arrived. So actually, my father's letterhead used to read "importers and exporters." The Persimmon Domoto: A lot of the things he did [was] import work, mail order. For instance, the things that came in any quantity were like persimmons, chestnuts, some of the fruit trees, like the pears, but mainly the biggest amount of that type of fruit was some of the varieties of persimmons and some of the prunes. Then even they bought some of the oranges, the Satsuma oranges. In the other ornamental line, we would get quantities of camellias. Riess: Let me stop you for a second on the fruit and ask whether this was the introduction here of Japanese persimmons? Domoto: Oh yes. Riess: Through your father's business? Domoto: Yes. They were sold to other nurseries like, oh, Fancher Creek, in Fresno. There is a nursery up in Newcastle, Fowler, I think. Those are some of the nurseries. Then down south into the Los Angeles area. Actually, I guess the commercial — others may have imported some, I don't know. But I know that my father was importing a lot of those original persimmons into the states for distribution. Riess: For home gardens? 293 Domoto: No, for commercial planters. So some of the original plantings in California were from trees that my father imported. Riess: Did they know the range of conditions that the persimmon would grow under? Domoto: No, a lot of it was experimental. But by that time some of the orchardists had Japanese foremen or men working for them on the crew. So because of that they would know about planting, but a lot of it was experimental. Then also the USDA was interested in the persimmons, like they were in bamboo shoots — bamboo we imported. Up at Chico, they had I have forgotten how many varieties of persimmon at the USDA Experiment Station. They had pretty near every variety of persimmon they could find from Japan as a test to try out for the area and at one time, the ones that came from Japan originally were all grafted on persimmons understock. Then they found out somewhere along the line that the persimmon understock takes too long to come into fruit and it was hard to transplant. So then they went into a cousin, one they called the lotus, a related tree for understock here in California. Now they are going back to the persimmon again because they say that the lotus is not really compatible, the tree is short-lived and the fruit isn't quite as good. So they are going back to the older persimmon understock again. But Chico, and this is back in it must have been in the fifties. It was before that, I guess. I know that some of those trees may still be there. They had one large persimmon that the man in charge (I've forgotten his name now) said that they just had finished picking over a half a ton of fruit from that one tree. Riess: That's amazing. I have a persimmon and the trunk is so weak that I have to keep cutting that tree back. Domoto: No, this trunk goes about that wide. I don't know what the spread was, but they got the big fruit from there, and every year since they've been up there — the heads of the department used to be shifted around from different stations — they said they were sending a box to the President, and boxes to the secretaries of agriculture and commerce. I said, "Do you mean all of those?" "Oh no, not all of them, but certain ones." Then, of course, no air. It had to be shipped by railway express and it would be at least five days on the road — at least that; more likely a week. They were really — I never saw them that big. Of course, they would pick out the biggest ones. 294 Riess: Oh, and they are so beautiful. Then they would have to send along somebody to educate all of these people about when you eat a persimmon, when it's ripe. Domoto: Probably over there, when they got them they would probably look at them and then, of course, they have a Japanese embassy, or the consulate people that they could find out what to do with them, or else probably they just came with somebody to look at it, admire or have some fun puckering them. Speaking of educating, I was in Illinois in school and my folks sent me some persimmons, both Fuyus and Hachiyas. My roommate, when the box came in, I didn't recognize the Fuyus right away and I started to bite into it (and I had a few Hachiyas in the box). He said, "What are those?" I said, "Persimmons." He kept watching my face and he said, "Toichi, you are a damn good actor but you can't fool me!" I said, "Okay," and I kept eating one. When I got through, he said, "No, there is something else to it. Can I try one?" I said, "Sure." He bit into it, and pretty soon he sort of laughed. Then one of the other fraternity brothers came in and he said, "What are you eating?" "Persimmons." "Ooh ! " "Yes," I said, "do you want to try one?" "Nah! It's too good for those guys!" [laughter] But that was the general impression of persimmons and even now it is that way. Persimmons are puckery and if you grow up eating persimmons back there it is the small, native persimmons, the wild persimmons. They say that they have to be real ripe before they are good. Of course, the southern group, they know what they're talking about. They eat persimmons with possum meat cooked together. So it's just a matter of getting educated. Riess : The experimental work was done by the USDA. How about the University of California Agricultural Extension? 295 Domoto: No, that is a much later development. That Importation work was mostly done by USDA first. Then they had one down in Santa Barbara, too, but they closed that out back in about '35 or '40 when they had to enlarge one of the campuses. They had to knock out a lot of the trees they had there. But they were experimenting with some in Florida, too. The two experiment stations were in Florida and Chico, and some of the early pamphlets or early books on persimmons that the USDA has put out, is from either Chico or Florida. Just like the bamboo. See, they had an idea of growing bamboo for food and also for structural purposes especially in the Louisiana area. But with labor costs and whatever it was too costly. Quarantine Number 37 Riess: Domoto : Riess: Domoto: Riess: When was the quarantine? That was in '17. But actually there was an embargo before that because the war was on and there was no space available for bringing the plants in. So the actual quarantine, number 37, did not go into effect until '17. But the limitation of imports was already on because of the war. The only way you could get their coming into the States either from the Orient or from Europe was by getting a special permit from the War Trade Board to use the boats coming this way if they had room, and that was very limited. Then because 37 was going to go in, the nurserymen here were just coming out of World War I and still trying to cope with their home propagation. They were trying to keep [out] the competition that would be coming in from Europe or Asia or wherever that used to come in, that is to work up a home industry in the meantime. Are you talking about the non- Japanese nurserymen? Yes, all over the United States; that is, azaleas and conifers and so forth back in the New Jersey area and the New York area and some in California. Not so much in the Midwest — one or two in the Midwest. But it was an industry and they were trying to keep the competition from coming in. Of course, there was a fear of insects and diseases coming in. Which do you think was more important though? real issue? Which was the 296 Domoto: When I come to think back over what happened and the way things are, politics as it is, I would say [pause] — they used the fact that there was a danger of disease coming in as a means of putting quarantine 37 in. Riess : Yes, I would imagine you would think that. Was there enough warning though so that you could get a really adequate back stock? Domoto: No, because if you did, then they would say, "Look, disease could come in with that box of stock." So they wanted control over the stock that was coming in already, that would be coming in under the quarantine, so they would have control over that. They had to be brought in and inspected, or come from a country where they had rigid inspection, and then come in for resale. Certain things could be resold right away, others would have to be kept under one or two or three-year post-entry quarantine measures to see if nothing develops on those plants that came in. Cottage Garden Nursery, Eureka Domoto: Now, that's where Cottage Garden Nursery in Eureka started. My father, being on the importing side, import licenses — special licenses — were hard to get. Mr. [Charles W. ] Ward told my father, "You go to Japan and get all of these. You want so many thousand of this, so many thousand of that, and this and that, all of the things that we are importing in whatever size you could get, the bigger the better; whatever you could get." [My father] said, "We can't get that permit." He said, "Never mind the permit. I'll get the permit and you go to Japan and get the plants over there." Riess: Because he had the political power to get the permit? Domoto: Yes. Riess: His name was Ward? Domoto: Yes, Charles W. Ward. Riess: Was that the case often, that your father went over to pick out the materials. 297 Domoto: He was in Japan at the time, not only to buy plant material but at wartime there was some war material — junk steel and stuff like that — that could be sold at a profit. Riess : You father is some smart man! He was in on all of those things? Domoto: There was — what do you call it, a junkie? — yes, they called him a junkie, in Oakland and San Francisco [that] my father knew. They would get together a bunch of scrap iron and things to send and you could take orders over there. Of course, they had no trouble sending that over, the scrap material. But Mr. Ward's idea in the Cottage Gardens, which was near Eureka, was to start a new Belgian-Holland concept up there. They were going to grow all of the conifers , the Araucarias . Riess: Spell that for me. Why don't I know that name? Domoto: The Norfolk Island pine, Araucaria. Coastal blue spruce, all of the types of conifers that we used to import and the hollies, the English bay, and then bulbs. He was going to grow the Dutch bulbs — the tulips and daffodils and all that sort of thing. Then the azaleas, of course, and rhododendrons, of course, were going to be one of the main things that they were going to raise up there because they figured the climate up there was closest to the climate of Holland and Belgium. He even started a purebred dairy to get the manure for his nursery operation. The theory was quite good, but probably a little too much for him to oversee at one time. The dairy operation started to fold up because he had a dishonest superintendent or manager or whatever you might call him. Everytime a calf was born, they would substitute a nondescript cow or whatever for a thoroughbred and he would sell the thoroughbred. I think they were Jerseys, I think that was the breed that they were in. But at the time they should have had a nice, big herd, why they just had a mangy, olfl herd. . So [there was] that and then the bulb deal didn't turn out so good. They found up further north in Washington, in Bellingham, the government started to make some bulb experiments up there. They found the weather condition was better up there. But they didn't go into tulips either. They had trouble. I don't know what line they had, but daffodils they went into pretty heavily, the narcissus group and that area. 298 II TOICHI DOMOTO'S EDUCATION Jobs for Japanese Rless: Domoto: Domoto: If there hadn't been the quarantine, do you think that you would have gone into the hybridizing and so on that you did or did the quarantine create a kind of need? Actually, I liked plants in a way, in the beginning, think back to things that might have influenced me. if I kind of I used to like annuals, especially pansies. I know that one of our workers used to raise some pansies at home, just to sell to the different florists, and he brought me a couple of plants in this little four-inch pot and I thought more about that and trying to get some seed to set. I never got it to because I didn't know anything about growing these things. But I enjoyed that more than any of the shrubs that we had. Importing camellias — I didn't know anything about [them] . I clipped all of the buds off of them and I never got a licking for it, but I know I got a lecture for it! [laughter] Of course, they were brought in with the buds to sell. The other thing possibly, as far as the Japanese are concerned, there weren't too many things that you could go into for a living. By that time I had been talking with several who had already graduated from college with a college degree and [they] had no place to go. But those who were from Japan or ones who had been sent over by the big companies to further their knowledge in the different branches, of course, as soon as they finished their study here they would go back. But the local fellows and the ones who didn't have that connection — like we used to say, "There were more college graduates selling art goods or pumping gas." Grant Avenue, the art goods stores, knicknack stores. They used to have college graduates selling that type of material. 299 Domoto: Then the only other outlet was gardening. The carpenters — you had no chance of getting a carpenter's job. Riess: The unions were closed. Domoto: Yes, so that was the only outlet there was. Even gardening, In the larger construction jobs, there was no new landscaping. There was no room there. Riess: Who had that business by then? Domoto: Most of that was by the old firms like McRorie and McLaren. McLaren was the father of Golden Gate Park. Riess: It sounds like the Scotsmen had that business! Domoto: Yes, the Scotch and Irish. Riess: Were the Italians taken seriously as gardeners? Domoto: The Italians were later. You see, a generation as it comes in, most of the first gardeners around here, the better gardeners that came in as head gardeners, were English, Scotch, Irish, and German because they were the ones that had the training in the European countries that had bigger estates. These larger estates were people of that ancestry, so naturally they would be inclined to — I was trying to think of the name of the fellow that was in charge of Filoli. Riess: Yes, in an article about early Filoli, written by Albert Wilson, he talks about Phil Graves. But I don't know that he was the manager. Domoto: But I think Graves might have been the man that followed after. Riess: This was 1927. [reading] Albert Wilson, "fresh out of Stanford."* Did you know him? Stanford, and University of Illinois Domoto: He was a classmate of mine at Stanford. I started at Stanford, so we were together. In fact, in a class in morphology we used to be together. Riess: So with the two years at Stanford, had you thought that you would graduate from Stanford? *"The Gardens of Filoli," by Albert Wilson, California Horticultural Journal , Vol. XXXI, No. 3, July 1970. 300 Domoto: Mess: Domoto: Rless : Domoto: Rless: Domoto: Rless: Domoto: Well, I thought so but I was in the group at the beginning of the cycle where they are supposed to have a general interest group instead of a specialized study. In other words, unless you were going into engineering or chemistry or medicine, if you were in anything else, you had to take what they called social — Sort of a liberal education? A liberal education, and we were the first class to be — Liberally educated! Yes, and then after the two years I found out that I was going to have to study some structural botany or something that wasn't in line with the things that I was going to do. I went back in the fall and I couldn't find anything and all of a sudden I decided to go back to Illinois because they did have a floriculture course. I always felt that college education as such wasn't too practical anyway from what I have seen of the fellows who had come in working for my father. It gave them the ability to be something, but as far as their ability to do things right away it was zero. There was always a conflict there between the fellows who did and didn't go. you needed? go- So you had to go as far as Illinois though to get what That was nearest, yes. It had a reputation? They were one of the few universities that was offering a flori culture course. It wasn't a nursery course. It was a floriculture course. It happened that I was working in the summertime for a florist from Chicago, Illinois. His name is Frank Oechslin. He came out for a florist nursery convention in San Francisco, and visited the nursery. He talked with me and said, "What are you going to do?" I told him what I was going to study. "Are you going to be a professor?!) I said, "No." He said, "Ah, you're in the wrong school! You should come to Illinois." That's all he said. He said, "There is a nice school there for horticulture." 301 Domoto: Rless: Domoto: Rless: Domoto: At that time, we were raising cut flowers and pot plants and the importation part had been cut out altogether. We were still importing bulbs, but that was about the only thing we were able to import to sell and we were starting to try to raise a few camellia plants. But most of the import was Just limited to new varieties for propagating stock, not to import to sell right away. So I thought, "Gee! So far as income was concerned, cut flower business was pretty good." I thought, "Maybe that might be the answer." Were you an only child? No, I was the oldest. So after starting the quarter at Stanford I found out I could go to Illinois. They said if I came right away I could get [there] in time for the first big midterm test for that semester. So I packed and went, and I never regretted it. Because of my connection with the professor there, I was able to get a job during my relocation period with Schrarom's Nursery in Illinois because they knew of my camellia knowledge. It so happened that the Schramms were of German descent and they had experienced the same thing that we were going through in World War I. How good that that made them sympathetic, remember what the Germans went through. People very seldom Of course, they were young at the time, but they still remembered that part of it. Of course, their parents, those of the older generation — but he remembered pretty much when they went into Chicago at the time some of the things that happened to him. So I was very fortunate in being able to go there. Cosmopolitan Club Rless: Domoto: Did you experience prejudice in Illinois in the late 1920s? weren't very many Japanese there, were there? There No, but in certain areas — of course, social-wise it still was not as heavy as out here on the coast, but still, [laughs] Some of the funny things! How narrow people think. 302 Domoto: Riess: Domoto: I was president of the Cosmopolitan Club. We were going through initiation with the young freshmen that we were going to pledge. Of course, when you are in the Cosmopolitan Club you have a lot of students from other countries. So naturally, initiation would never be the kind of initiation that Greek-letter fraternities go through. We'd make believe we might have, but it was never a hazing type of initiation. But this professor's son, he wanted to get to know the kids. He wanted to go into the diplomatic corps. He looked up the group and one of the other freshmen asked him to become a member, so we gave them [the initiates] a long initiation period of questions and answers, to see what their attitudes were, more than anything else. It was past midnight. There came a phone call and someone said, "It's for you, Prex." "This is Professor So-and-So and if you are keeping my son there, I don't want him to join anywhere some damn old foreigner is giving them the works." And boy, did he read the riot act to me! Fora professor, to say those things, they were supposed to be knowledgeable! So then I told him, "Look, you can say what you want. If you don't want your son to join, that's up to you. But your son asked to become a member of his own free will and I think he would make a good member. But if you don't want him to, you talk it over with him when he gets home. If he still doesn't want to, we'll abide by it. But as far as any hazing, like you think that you've gone through in your fraternity, we're not a bunch of damn fools like you were." And that shut him up. He didn't say anything. About two years after, about graduation time, we had a farewell dinner and he apologized. It sounds like it was an interesting group. Club have many chapters? Did the Cosmopolitan I think there were only about two chapters in the States then that had living groups. The rest of them were just social groups. Actually, unless you live with the group you don't get to know it; it's just a social group that would get together, like your YMCA, or any of the groups where you just meet once a month, and you get to know a person superficially. It is only when you live with them and fight with them and talk with them or you have to work with them together that then you get to know a person. But at that time, Cornell and Illinois were the only two that really had full accommodations where you lived in the house together. Chicago had what they called International House, which is a part of the same group, but they more or less kind of limited their membership to the Christian faith. It didn't have to be, but it was, more or less. So I don't think that they got the full cross section of what a cosmopolitan group should be. 303 Tom Domoto, Propagating and Hybridizing Chrysanthemums Rless: That is very interesting. Your father was doing some hybridizing, or was that more your interest? Domoto: My father's early propagation and hybridizing work was with chrysanthemums. His early catalogue shows some of the early varieties and some of the awards that were received and some catalogue letters that show, and the correspondence 1 have found, were on the varieties that he had introduced. Carnations he worked with some, but mostly chrysanthemums. Riess: Was he self-taught? He and his brother hadn't had training in this? Domoto: No, he was the only one that really went into it. The other brother that came with him from Japan at the same time went into the mercantile brokerage business. Riess: I thought that when it said Domoto Brothers — Domoto: Yes, the "brothers" was a younger brother; there were several younger brothers that came after he got going. I think one of them was with us for quite awhile. The other ones were {with us] just a short while and [stayed] maybe five or ten years and then left for health reasons or just went back to Japan. But one of them stayed until we lost the property. But most of his education [in] growing was all from self education. Riess: When he had the booming business in 1910, what was called the New Ranch and the twenty-five greenhouses, how many employees were there? Domoto: They must have had [pause] nineteen or twenty people there, I guess. They used to have bunkhouses for them, I know that. The bunkhouses, I remember, I think there were at least twenty-one or twenty- two rooms in the bunkhouse for the men. Riess: These were single men who had just come over from Japan? Domoto: Yes, and then there were a couple of other rooms for — the married couples were mostly — the wife was probably helping to keep house and the man worked in the nursery; not all of them, but in some instances 1 think that was the way it worked. Otherwise, in some cases the man would be the cook for the bunch and the wife would either help the cook or they would be nursemaid. Those things kept changing. 304 Do mo to : Rless: Domoto: Incidentally, Filoli had a big bunkhouse, too. Where the Italian gardeners lived? Yes. I don't know whether it is still there or not, but it was quite an impressive building there, with a recreation kind of room and everything. It was not the kind of ranch house — bunkhouse- that you connect with the average farm commercial area. It was really nicely put together. Rless : Domoto: Riess: Filoli is so isolated, everything. I guess they really had to provide Domoto: Yes, I guess the nearest — if they wanted to get down — they had to go from there down that old road down into San Mateo or to the railroad to get into San Francisco. We really have to concentrate more on Filoli, much as I have a whole lot more little questions for you. Domoto Brothers, Inc., closed at the time of the Depression and that was about when your father was retiring anyway, or did that just knock him out completely? No, that's probably what knocked him out more than anything else. He was at the age when his health was bad. But I think that's probably what did it. 305 III FILOLI, POST WORLD WAR II Bulbs Domoto: The other name that comes into my mind now at Filoli [is] Peter Valinga. He was a Hollander that came over right after the war, he and his wife. Riess: After the First World War? Domoto: Second. They sold Dutch bulbs and he put in quite a nice display. He used to put in a display at the Oakland garden show, the spring garden show, and I remember because he used to put on the regular Dutch costume with the clogs, their wooden shoes. Before that, I think they used to buy their bulbs through one of the other bulb dealers — I don't know where he used to buy them — but because of the garden exhibit they put in, he was able to break in there and sell her an order of bulbs. He also made it a point that he would like to set those bulbs out for her. I know that the first year they came up, they were planted very carefully and of course came up — and after that, why, he was in, because the arrangement and the varieties and everything, he really made the show. Riess: That would have been just his specialty though? Domoto: Just bulbs and then other things that they wanted. Along with that, I think that this is about the period when Mrs. Roth started to spend a little more time at Filoli instead of traveling or else in the spring, when she would be there when the gardens were in bloom, because they were traveling around all of the time because of her interest in horses and the harness racing. Quite often that season kind of tied in with the spring season, and the result was that I know that the gardener said, "Mrs. Roth doesn't see the prettiest time of the garden because she is out or she comes in at night," and at night time, unless they have the lights on, she didn't see it. 306 Toichl. Troubleshooter Domoto: Riess : Domoto: When she started to enjoy the garden more, that is when I started to get called out more and more to come down to see what — and as far as the design, I am not a designer, but when they were having trouble about where they should plant it where it would grow, I could tell them the location. So that was my feeling, and that is the way I have always told any of my customers, "1 don't know if they are going to look good there. That is not my business. But if the soil or something is there, I can tell you about the environment in relation to buildings or sunshine. I can tell you whether it will grow there or not. But whether that is going to be right plant for there or not, 1 don't know. You have to get somebody else to do that." With the soil, do you just go by feel or were you doing tests? No, I could do some tests but most of it [was] from seeing what is growing. Most of the gardens are not new. They are old gardens and seeing what is growing there otherwise. If there is like azaleas or rhododendrons, they are making the beds anyway. So if they wanted to plant rhododendrons or azaleas there, why, we'd go ahead and do it. But some of the things were learned there, In the front garden, the court garden, over the years, that whole section, they used to have a lot of Hinodegiri azaleas in there. They started to go out and then gradually we replaced them once and they still kept [failing]. We couldn't figure it out. I think it was just before Mr. Thiringer. He may have already been there, but I think it was a man before him, as I recall. What is Thiringer 's first name? Mess: Leslie. Domoto: No, it was someone else, short time. [pause] But this man was there just a What we found was that the roots of those big maples in the courtyard were coming up into the beds . So they decided to put a false bed in there and make a bed and put the azaleas on top. They put four-by-fours I guess in and some planks on there and put the peat moss on top, and they closed the ends off so it wouldn't show the boards. [With] the humidity in there, the roots still went up through air space up to the top. So then later they had to leave an air space where the roots would be air pruned because it was coming through and the air would dry the roots before it had a chance to go up into the top. 307 Domoto: I don't know if they have still kept it, but that was the only way they could keep — the annuals, they didn't have too much trouble, because they would dig a hole and the flowers come up and they are gone. Most of the annual flowers were grown in the greenhouse and then as soon as they are ready to flower and Mrs. Roth was having a party or something, they would bring it down and set it around the base of the trees. Then when two or three days are over, they would take it back and the greenhouse would have to supply some more plants to keep that cover going. But the permanent plants, when the roots are in competition, that's when they start to get into trouble. That's because the trees got bigger and bigger. Riess: That's interesting. I can't remember whether they still have azaleas around there. Domoto: They still have the azaleas, but whether they still kept that false bottom in there or not, I don't know. But that was the solution for it and then I think one of the magnolias they had in there finally died. We are not sure whether it was oak root fungus. It could be, because by that time oak root fungus started to grow in there and we weren't sure whether the azaleas were going from oak root fungus or they were in competition with the maple tree roots. Riess: I never thought about oak root fungus, but of course the whole area could have been infected. Domoto: Yes, it could be but without having an actual autopsy of the thing ahead of time, until after they were gone and destroyed, we have no way of telling what caused it. Riess: Is your philosophy in general to replace or do you try to save? Domoto: Yes, I think so, to just go ahead and replace. You are familiar with the area down there? Riess: Yes. Domoto: Do you know where the garage is? There is a little planting, a court circle there, a sort of a border. I don't know what is planted there now, but at one time I think they had Raphiolepsis or something in there and the deer used to eat it up. So then they found that the Sasanqua camellias were not being chewed by the deer. So she planted that whole bed with Shishi Gashira and the edging, I think, is boxwood if I remember — either boxwood or myrtle, but I think it is boxwood. They got just above the boxwood 308 Domoto: and they started to make a nice cover for that mound there and then all of a sudden they started to get chewed on. They couldn't figure it out. It wasn't the old deer, it was the young deer that started to chew on it! [laughter] Riess: They already had developed a little taste for it! Domoto: Yes, I guess so. They didn't mind the bitterness or whatever it was of the foliage. 309 IV MISS ISABELLA WORN Riess: What do you personally remember of Isabella Worn? Domoto: Personality-wise, she was very decisive. Riess: That is not very good in a woman maybe? Domoto: No, she wasn't [bad]. Like my sister said, she would arrive and say, "Where's your father?" [sharply] "Go call him." And my sister says, "I never liked her, because she was too bossy." fi Riess: Do you think that was her behavior with everybody? Domoto: Yes — and not inclined to be too talkative until later. She knew just exactly what she wanted and she made up her mind what she wanted and that was what she wanted. But I noticed in her later years when she came, she used to ask me, or ask Mrs. Domoto, "What do you think of this or that for color?" Alice used to say, "Gee, Miss Worn is getting older, she is asking," and before, that was the last thing she would do, ask what you thought about this or that. She would make the decision and that was final. Riess: Was there a way of introducing her to new varieties? After all, she was coming to a place where new things were happening all of the time. Domoto: She would ask, "What do you have new?" Or she would spot the new things. She had an eye for new things, or things that would fit into the different areas, or for different customers that she had in mind. Actually, landscape-wise was a little later thing for her. First, mainly she was an interior decorator. Riess: Yes, that's what I've heard, making arrangements for parties. 310 Domoto: Making floral decorations. I remember going over to — I saw the effects afterwards and heard about it later — that we had supplied her with a lot of Van derCraysen azaleas that had been forced for this big party that was going to be held in I think it was the Fairmont Hotel. There was this whole big mass on the wall and I couldn't figure out how they were all stuck up there. After, we found out she had just broke them and stuck them up in there because this was an over-night affair. Someone said that at that tine sort of a competitor of hers — not a real competitor, but trying to do the same kind of work — was a florist maned Stein in San Francisco. I understand he happened to be watching her starting to do it and she saw him and they tell me that she said [firmly], "Get that man out of here and close that door! I'm not going to work anymore until you get him out of the room!" [laughter] That's what they told me the next day when I was looking at that. And that was her. She would do what she had in mind. She had a certain way she had to go and it would either be Miss Worn's way or no other way. But she had the good taste of doing it and when she got through, it looked good, so she could get by with it. I think when you are dealing with society league people that are spoiled — not all, but a lot of them have had their way and they want their way or rather they think they know what they want — to be able to go in there and tell them, "No, that's not the way it should go, [it should go] this way," and to do it and get by with it, you have to have the personality that she did in order to be able to do it. Riess: Yes, I think you are right. Domoto: I think she was a good psychologist. But inside she was a very warm person. Riess: How do you know? Domoto: Being an old maid and putting her nieces and nephews through school and paying for their family and everything, without their knowing too much about it. I don't know to this day whether — sometimes, a couple of times, in talking, the others seem to kind of slight her, but knowing what she was doing, after her talking to my father about what she had done or was doing, I have a feeling that a lot of things she was doing for them was on the sly. Riess: So she opened up to your father. 311 Domoto: Oh yes, because my father was pretty much that way, kind of brusque sometimes. He would be very frank to some people, and maybe he was too frank, but what he did say, why most of the time was the truth. So that was it. Riess: She had a nephew who has a nursery in San Anselmo, Donald Perry? Domoto: Yes, he still has it, I think, or he may have sold it. But the nursery I think is still operating, the Sunnyside Nursery. He may have sold it and the name may still be kept there. Riess: I was wondering how many nurseries did she use? Did she use you all exclusively? Domoto: Oh no, no, she went all over, wherever she could get potted plants, she would go to Geneva, Evergreen, James. Cut flowers she would get, like roses if she needed a bunch of roses for a home, a lot of cut roses, Avansino's for cut flowers. She knew who to depend on for the best in the line of materials she needed. Riess: How about some of the eastern mail order places? Did western gardeners use Burpee, Wayside? Domoto: I think some of them did. I think Wayside, to what extent they did out here I don't know. Riess : Would there be things that would be exclusive to those like Burpee or Wayside? Domoto: Wayside, most of their things until recently were material that was more or less geared for the middle western [and] eastern states, The Pacific Coast area, we were always the outcast. In other words, west of the Milwaukee and mountain states we had another price and unless it was really something good, we were kind of balking at that extra tax they stuck on. Riess: So it wasn't that the materials were not adaptable to western — Domoto: No, but you see most a lot of the things that they had were deciduous things. Once an easterner comes out to California and stays out here for awhile, outside of maybe lilacs and peonies, they want flowers all the year around. They want a shrub. [They will say], "Gee, only one time of flower? No flowers all year around?" They get spoiled, just like with the weather. They forget that there is four seasons. But they do miss their four seasons once in awhile. 312 Rless: Do mo to: Rless: Do mo to: Rless: Domoto: Rless: Domoto : Yes, I have read a lot about your development of tree peonies and yet still I don't see peonies that much in California. Well, you won't find them any other place either because their propagation is so difficult, [pause; looking in phone book] Yes, there is a Sunnyside Nursery in San Anselmo. It is still there. It doesn't say who the owner is any more, but it is still there. That is interesting to know. Did you deal also with Miss Worn when you were in your own business or was she retired by then? No, she was still buying materials not only for Filoli but for the other people down the peninsula and San Francisco. In fact, she worked for San Simeon, did you say? connection with Julia Morgan? It was the Yes, she came out, as I remember, to my dad's place, with Julia Morgan. But Miss Worn went around the San Leandro area at that time picking up a lot of the trees in the yards that were available. We were buying plants, too, at that time. We used to go out and, with like magnolias and camellias, we used to go out with a crew and dig them up and bring them in and establish them for sale. But quite often we would go in there to buy something and then they would say, "It's already sold." I would say, "Who bought it?" "I don't know, some lady came and bought it." Almost invariably of course she would pay more than we would because of going direct and that was the time when San Simeon was being developed. Some was freighted down, but some of the bigger plants were barged down, especially after the fair. A lot of the things had to be barged down. The roads weren't that good and the trucks now, of course, they have these big semis but in those days they were so small that you couldn't transport more than one or two trees . But you could put them on a big barge in San Francisco or in Oakland and the barge could go on down and land right down there because Hearst built a dockside down there for all of these European things to come in. So a lot of the camellias that are down there came from the San Leandro-Sacramento area. So she was the designer also, you are saying, for most of the big estates on the peninsula side? I don't think so much designing. I think most of that design part was already in. I think she was more actually helping to fill in. Like Filoli, the main part was already in. There wasn't too much to change. But, for instance, she would want some plants for in the corridor or the room or for this jar or that jar in there or 313 Domoto: if they were going to have a party in the ballroom she would want some plants for the decoration for the party that was going to be held in the ballroom, that type of material, that was what we were called on mostly to supply. Then, as far as the camellia varieties that went down there, Mrs. Roth used to come on her own in the camellia season. Riess: And see them in bloom here? Domoto: See them in bloom or ask which was in and ask me to send them over and then select them. Riess: How was it to work with Mrs. Roth? Domoto: Oh, very easy. Riess: She would defer to you or would she have a point of view that was very — Domoto: Oh no, there were certain things that she, as long as it would fit into her garden, why, that was it. But I think, unless it didn't fit in and didn't grow, if it wouldn't grow there, she would say, "Would it fit some other place?" That was the way she would ask. Riess: Because she would be attracted to the plant itself? She was drawn to it? Domoto: Yes. . 314 V APPRECIATING THE CHARACTER OF GARDENS Riess : It occurred to me to wonder whether you would send any of your customers then to see something in a site or location at Filoli. People might say to you, "How does this really look? How does it grow?" Domoto: No, I don't do that. Neither Filoli nor some of the other places. No, I feel that the garden is their own place. If it's like a park, it's different. But a private home, unless they have a very rare tree that they are very, very proud of and I know that they are showing it to people, I will say, "There is a garden in Piedmont where it is growing" or "There is a garden in Berkeley I know where it grows well." But as far as telling them that they should go see it, I don't, I never did. Quite often — and I always felt the same way — a person puts a garden in and you don't like to have every Tom, Dick and Harry. The thing is, that the people that you would like to have come in are the ones that respect that. The ones that you would just as soon not come in are the most brazen that come in. Riess: Yes, I'm sure! Domoto: So I feel they are not going to miss anything. The other thing, the ones who are the most brazen are the ones who don't always absorb what they should see. Riess: Perhaps so; that sounds very Japanese. Domoto: Their ego is, "I went to see so-and-so's place." "What did you see there?" "I don't know," or what they tell you they saw is kind of superficial. Riess: That is interesting, because when you think of the way tours of gardens are run, it is often a tour of the names of things. This, I think, is very western, this kind of checking off the names of things, rather than experiencing it. 315 Dome to: Is it? I don't think so. I think it all depends on the person. I don't think it's a matter of race or color. You go into a certain garden and the way it is put together, they say, "Gee, this garden has a certain feeling." If it is really an intimate garden, it reflects the feeling of the person that has done it or his character. But if it is done by an architect, it doesn't reflect the owner's character sometimes. Now it is changing quite a bit, but for awhile I could go up to any of the peninsula gardens — of all the gardens we have supplied materials to, I have never visited but very few of them. But I could go into the garden and say, "This is Tommy Church's garden, this is so-and-so's garden, or this is so-and-so's design." There would be certain ways the plants were put in, the type of materials put in there, that would almost be the same as putting a signature at the bottom of a painting. Riess: I guess what I was thinking about is the question, when you go through a garden, whether it is even necessary to name what things are. Domoto: The only time it would be necessary is if someone is interested in recording it for planting themselves or finding out what it would do and also, the picture as a whole you appreciate as an ensemble, not as each piece of a costume. Riess: Yes, I think so and yet Filoli seems to be like a real sort of garden club because there are so many things to learn. Domoto: Yes, and it has been changed. For instance, the natural garden, over the years they have tried to keep things in there that would be growing naturally, that garden up in back of their tennis courts. Then the rose garden, of course, was the formal garden. They used to have — I don't know if they are still there — a row of espalliered fruit trees going back. Riess: Yes, I think that has kind of fallen by the wayside. Domoto: Yes, that takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of work to keep it pruned up. Riess: I think their intention is to start that again actually. Domoto: But where are you going to get the men to do it? By men I mean the skill to do it. 316 VI TEACHING THE SKILLS; FLORICULTURE SCHOOLS Riess: You must know Mai Abergast. Doiaoto: Yes. Riess: Mai Abergast has hopes that it will be a school. Domoto: Yes, but then who is going to teach this school? You could put up a school and get the dollars for it, but who is going to teach it? Where are the teachers? Riess: I don't know. Where are the teachers? Do people use you as a teacher? Domoto: No, I refuse to teach. Riess: And the School of Floriculture at the University of Illinois? Domoto: Well, that's the old group. See, the schools like that go in cycles, It is only as good as the man in charge that knows something and then it passes the prime and unless they have some of the younger people coming in that have the same dedication, it passes on. At one time in the line of floriculture it was Cornell, then it was Illinois, and then it became Ohio State, then it became Michigan. I don't follow it that closely, but is so happened that at Ohio State was one of the students of Professor Dohner from Illinois. Then Michigan became quite prominent in floricultural work because of a classmate of mine in Illinois [who was there] . The same as Davis now. For a long time we used to kind of turn up our noses at Davis. But now it has come right up because they have people up there that are [not only] experimental minded, but more on the side that will apply to either the nursery or forestry or to the garden group. They have to be able to sell themselves, not only the knowledge that they know. Unless they can sell themselves, the knowledge doesn't go over. 317 Riess: Do you mean more so than in the other trades because they deal with the public so much? Domoto: Yes, I think so. I think in anything, besides just the knowledge, unless you can impart that knowledge to someone else, unless it is something that can be written down and you can absorb it like a math problem or a chemistry equation. But in other things you have to be able to impart that enthusiasm for that subject. Riess: Yes, right, but on the other hand, some people might argue that everybody now has a little of this knowledge through Sunset Magazine and through horticultural journals. Domoto: But that is the sad part of it. They have just a — you know, when you are cooking, you have a smattering but the last bit that goes in that gives that little difference in the taste that [makes you] say, "Gee, this is good," or "Why doesn't this one taste just as good?" That is what's missing. I think there is a possibility, as they go along with Filoli — I have high hopes for Filoli, I like the place, the environment is good — and it is only a matter of time that I look forward to seeing it as a western arboretum, because it is big enough, and the climate is a lot better than Golden Gate Park. Golden Gate Park is fine for rhododendrons, just that type of material. But for general nursery stock, nursery ornamentals, not so good. They [Filoli] could develop, for instance, a collection of almost any kind of shrubs. You were talking about peonies. Now, peonies down there where they planted them have done well . Look how well the maples have done in their court over the years, [how] the magnolias have done. Granted some of the soil has been made over, but after that original made-over soil is used up, and the roots go out, and you see how some of the other things are growing, that means that the surroundings and the basic structure is good. 318 VII ITALIAN GARDENERS Riess: Did the Italian gardeners really develop as garden experts, do you think, or were they more just laborers? Domoto: There is a cycle there. I may be wrong, but originally, if you check — I think he is still alive — Clarence Hoff in Oakland near Mills College, you might check with him on the original membership of the Pacific Coast Horticultural Society. That used to be all white — all white and mostly Scotch and Irish, very few Italians in there, almost none. Of course, there are some florist groups like Podesta-Baldocchi. But the rest of them are outsiders. But the other group, the horticultural society itself, if you look at the names there, [they are] Irish, some German, but there are few other names in there. You might ask him. He is retired now. He used to be at Hallowell's for a long time, but he is retired now. I think he has his buttons still and you could just ask him. Riess: Actually, that reminds me, when I was doing a Thomas Church oral history, that I interviewed a nursery man who was near Colma who was an Italian.* Domoto: Tommy Church used to buy a lot of plants from Pacific Nursery at Colma. Lou Schenone was in that, but then Lou was about the fourth generation there. Before Lou his boss was Kempf . But you see the son [Paul] served in the army in the group there and he wasn't interested too much in the nursery and Lou was his foreman, so he took over the operation and did a good job of it. But the original Kempf was a German with a German accent and he was the one who had the Pacific Nursery and they used to grow a lot of shrubs and bedding plants. Before that, there used to be, I think we had an old catalogue — I think I sent that over to the Strybing — was Ludemann. Riess: So this doesn't prove anything about Italians. *Thomas D. Church, Landscape Architect, Two volumes, Regional Oral History Office, University of California, Berkeley, 1978. 319 Domoto: No, and as far as the flower market is concerned, at first there was no market at all. Probably flowers were being sold here and there. My father started in selling some and then people started to bring them in. The carnation growers from this side of the bay, and down the peninsula — the peninsula was mostly chrysanthemum growers. The original Japanese growers were mostly in chrysanthemums, and some carnations, but mostly chrysanthemums. On this side, a lot of them were in carnations and roses. They used to have these bamboo baskets that were about four feet long and two by two. They would pack the flowers in there and put them on their back and take the steam trains to the Mole, and take the ferry over to San Francisco, and then sell them over there. Then at that time, the first place that I remember was Lick Place where they had the store and that was where Miss Worn used to have her business on the second floor above the store for quite a while. The original flower market was in the basement. Then from there they moved over to Bush Street, on the corner of Bush and St. Anne where the telephone exchange is. That used to be the big market. Then from there they moved down to Fifth Street, and from Fifth they moved up to Brannen. But at the time between I would say Lick Place and even up to the early days of St. Anne's, mostly the Italian growers came in with the maidenhair fern. They were raising maidenhair and violets. Most of their violets were for shipping out. In those days McLellan, Domoto, Enomotos, used to do a big shipping of violets and chrysanthemums. Domoto: The Italians, I think, were mostly growing vegetables first. Then my feeling is that most of them being devout Catholics, they have to have flowers to take to the cemetery. Riess: Yes, and to the altar. Domoto: —Or to the altar. If they can't go and buy them and the woman is quite good, she will plant a few seeds to grow some flowers for decoration day or whatever day to have some. Pretty soon they find, when they go to market with the vegetables to the vegetable market, they take some into the market. They found out that bunch of calendulas around there or whatever they brought in was bringing in more than the bunch of radishes that they were bringing in. So gradually the flowers took over, and the same with your original maidenhair growers that used to grow maidenhair and asparagus and also, in those days, the smilax in long garlands for decoration. It was used in festooning the dinner tables. Those were mostly grown in those long houses by the Italian gardeners. 320 Domoto: Then from there they started getting into pot plants. But up till that time most of the pot plants were being raised by the Japanese growers and some of the German growers. Then the Italian growers got in. Geneva was one of the biggest ones that got in, the Podesta Brothers and some of those came in. But I think all of It ties in with the availability of cheap labor. When my father was operating, we had a number of trainees, so-called, where they had agricultural training in Japan, coming over here either wanting to study or there were some that came over with the idea of evading the conscription — compulsory military training. Of course, that stopped and then pretty soon the immigration laws stopped them from coming in — quotas. Then for a while there the Italian group — there was no restriction on those. They came in quite heavily. So they were being used quite heavily like in Geneva's there. Along in '28, '29, and the thirties I used to go over to the market there to go down to Geneva's to buy some potted plants to sell. If I went over there at lunch time and they were having lunch, it was fun to sit down at the table with them. They would have this long dinner table and the spaghetti and macaroni was being served in these great big tin wash trays or casters. They would take it [demonstrates rolling it] right on down the line. Then right next to it were these big casks of wine. They could go up there and get all they wanted. Then the unions came in and then they had to change that because they couldn't have no more free time to go and drink their vino whenever they wanted to. They had to have a rest period and all of this, different things that they wanted. So then they cut out going to the wine bar whenever they wanted. They cut the time down. They used to work from dawn to dusk. They would go up there in order to drink the wine or eat there or whatever they wanted to do. They used to make it kind of tough for me because when I would go out to buy something at the place, they always insisted that I have a cup of vino and since I don't drink, at first — after they got to know me, but before that they thought I was refusing their hospitality. But those are the changes that you see. 321 VIII PRUNING AT FILOLI Rless: I wondered how many people were brought in from the outside or whether they tried, when Filoli was rolling, to have a completely self-sufficient crew. Domoto: My first trip down there, I think at that time they said, "We don't use the bunkhouse as much as we used to." But even then I think they had about nine or eleven gardeners . Riess: Yes, that is what I've heard. Domoto: Yes, because to keep up the formal beds with the annuals and planting the annuals — and they used to grow all of those annuals themselves — that took a lot of help. When the costs started to go up, then they found out that they could go out and buy the plants a lot cheaper than they could grow them themselves and get better plants that were more uniform. Riess: How about pruners? Domoto: The heavy pruning of the trees, I think, was done by this Davey tree man that would come in about once or twice here or whenever it was necessary, especially [for] the low hanging branches that were dangerous, they would have them come in. The garden pruning, some of it was I would say — there was one period there when it was neglected pretty bad. When Mr. Thiringer finally took over, I went down and some of the camellias were way out into the walks and everything. He said, "Do you think it would be all right to prune these back to give more room to the walk?" I said, "Yes, it won't hurt any." So he said, "I'm going to prune them when Mrs. Roth isn't around." I said, "Just forget about that, but do it when the season is right and when I see Mrs. Roth I will tell her that they should be pruned back," and I was pretty sure that she would agree with me. 322 Domoto: I think one thing that really kind of impressed Mrs. Roth was they had one big weeping cherry tree in the yard. I think it's gone now. The borers finally got hold of it. But at the head of the formal gardens there was a big weeping cherry. At the top borers or something — it got sunburned and borers had gotten it. They were about ready to take it out. The tree man had said, "Take it out." Thiringer asked me. Well, I said, "Maybe if you clean it out and shade it a little bit, you might be able to save it. But it's going to look bad for awhile," because whereas it used to cover maybe about twelve or fourteen feet, it was down to about three feet. He said he would try. Fortunately, I guess, in that following season it started to come up, because in the meantime, if we had found another replacement, I know that that would have gone out and we would have put the tree in. But the biggest replacement they could find, the head was no bigger than the tree they were putting in. So we did send one down there, but to be kept as a reserve to put in there later. When that one started to come out with having a root system there, it really took over again. I think she had quite a bit of confidence in him then because not having a full gardener's training — but he was very thorough — I think he was an attorney or a judge before he came over. Riess: I didn't realize that he had that background, but I knew that he was sent to horticultural school here, wasn't he? Domoto: No, he used to go to horticultural classes at night. I forgot who the teacher was, but he [Thiringer] asked me questions. [He'd say], "You know, that guy don't know nothing." He said, "I can pick up that stuff from the books. But he don't tell me the nitty gritty. The thing I want to find out, I ask him and he kind of puts me off." So I would say, "I can't tell you, but I'll try to find out for you," and I would give him the information. But he was very thorough. Everything he would write down in his own notes. Like the camellias [were] in there, the different ones — he made a list of their names and where they were located and then if some of the labels were gone, he would start to relabel them so that he could remember what they were. When the big wisteria that goes around the top of the building was getting all viney and rough, and then I think it was the eugenia on the side, it got too big — and now 1 think they took that out, because it could be taken out, and put something else in — anyway, 323 Domoto: the wisteria was getting so viney and that was when I was able to get Mr. Okasaki, the man I had doing my bonsai work, to go down there and do the pruning on the [wisteria] . I would say that he probably might have been the first Japanese gardener to work on the place as far as I know. There may have been others but most of the others were Italian because the head gardener was Italian and I doubt very much if there were any Japanese on there before that. Riess: So when Mr. Okasaki was there, did he then just come in by day? Domoto: He just went in there for that time for the wisteria. Because he did a good job on the wisteria, there was a big chamaecyparis obtusa [Hinoki cypress] in the front that had come over on both sides and had really outgrown itself there. Mr. Thiringer wanted to have him prune that out and it was on the edge of the stairway. It closed off about half or better than half, I guess, of the small walkway. When they cut that back, of course you had almost a full sweep of the steps. Underneath all of the branches that came across — I forget what it was. It was either an old Italian vase or a figure that was supposed to match one of the others that they thought was lost and here it had been underneath all of the branches there. Then when that came out, of course, it really looked good. So I think since then, they have had him back to do some of that topiary type of pruning and then some of the pruning of the trees, the bonsai trees [that were] around, that type of pruning. I think he had gone back for that. But the big trees and the roadway tree pruning, I think that is still Davey or some other tree group comes in for that. I think for a while there Stocking Roses in San Jose was supplying them with roses. Transcriber: Michelle Stafford Final Typist: Steven A. Wartofsky 324 Regional Oral History Office The Bancroft Library Appendix G University of California Berkeley, California Blake Estate Oral History Project Toichi Dotnoto MRS. BLAKE AND MISS SYMMES, HORTICULTURISTS An Interview Conducted by Suzanne B. Riess in 1987 Copyright ("c) 1988 by The Regents of the University of California 325 TABLE OF CONTENTS — Toichi Domoto INTERVIEW HISTORY 212 BIOGRAPHY 213 Mabel Symmes and Anita Blake at the California Horticultural Society Meetings 214 The Search for Uncommon Plant Material 218 The Nurseryman's Point of View 221 Tom Domoto and the Piedmont Customers 221 Floyd Mick. George Budgen, and Thomas Church 223 Competitiveness in the Garden 224 Anita Blake and the Relocated Japanese Families 226 Pricing and Bargaining 228 326 INTERVIEW HISTORY Toichi Domoto's nursery in Hay ward is an oasis in that sprawling southern Alameda County city. Located between the railroad tracks and Whitman Boulevard, it exists in a tranquility of birds, bonsai, and bamboo. Towering trees and stout-trunked stock form jungle-like allees. There is sufficient flora that the place may well create a weather system of its own. Daily Mr. Domoto tends his acre or so of bonsai of all the standard descriptions and then all the variations thereon. His house is tucked behind fruit trees in the center of the oasis. His office in a small structure off the parking area is dated by its cash register and its files, but Mr. Domoto's memory more than makes up for his lack of computer-era »ss." In 1981 I had interviewed Toichi Domoto for the Lurline Matson Roth oral history. At that time he discussed the plant material at Filoli, Mrs. Roth's estate in Woodside, California. He also talked about his father Tom Domoto's nursery business in East Oakland and the stock, such as persimmon, he introduced to California. Toichi Domoto studied at Stanford University, transferred and graduated in horticulture from the University of Illinois, in 1926, and spent the World War II relocation years in Crystal Lake, Illinois. For the Blake House History Project I wanted to talk to Mr. Domoto about the California Horticultural Society, "Cal Hort" as he calls it, of which he had been a member since the late thirties, and president in 1957 — in particular about the Blake Garden specimens that Anita Blake brought or sent to meetings of the Society. But the bonus in this interview was Mr. Domoto's childhood memory of Mrs. Blake and Miss Mabel Symmes coming to his father's nursery and buying stock, between 1925 and 1930. The insider view of the horticultural trade is fascinating. Mr. Domoto's choice made long ago not to visit gardens he serves was a disappointment: I expected he would be able to offer informed recollections of the Blake Garden at various times in the forties and fifties. But that choice came from some wisdom of Mr. Domoto's that I think must have to do with the amount of ego that gets tied up in gardens. While it frustrated many a proud garden lover, perhaps that pride was what dissuaded him. Serenity is what I found at Domoto's Nursery, and an absence of ego, desirable qualities in gardens, good reasons to make gardens. Suzanne B. Riess Interviewer-Editor October 29. 1987 Regional Oral History Office 486 The Bancroft Library University of California. Berkeley Regional Oral History Office University of California Room 486 The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California 94720 BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION (Please write clearly. Use black ink.) Your full name o ( e- I T O Date of birth T)^C. I \. jSpl Birthplace Q Cf 1<1 fl,y\ £( _ Cs:\ Father's full name \ WowA G < \\(Z ^ -P T (\ V O -^> O ^^ Q V O Occupation K tA,V S-£V M Vw-<^vi _ Birthplace v3 O^ (O Q^Nxt _ ~ ~ Mother's full name V •&_*> u C^A. Cry\ T Q_ T3 Q^^x (i^T 6? Occupation W^e? U Ag U-J »^TV _ Birthplace __ -^ Your spouse f\[\ C, -e» _ l\\J<5L\?t O ' Q ua \ OL *** < HI CVV t 1 Your children Q ua \ OL *** < CVV t VV> . Where did you grow up? C ^X^ytJ--" Present community _ r^ CXAi CX_D ^ . J "V ~T"^~ \ Occupation(s) 7\[ Areas of expertise Other interests or activities Organizations in which you are active_ 328 Mabel Symmes and Anita Blake at the California Horticultural Society Meetings [Date of Interview: June 8. 1987] Riess: When did you join Cal Hort? Domoto: I don't remember exactly. I didn't join in the beginning because 1 wasn't too much interested in going all the way to San Francisco for it. I was more interested in the nursery side of the business, rather than the non-commercial side, which the Cal Hort was in the beginning, until my arm was finally twisted by different people that were members of society. Riess: It began in 1935, and then — I've forgotten where you were during the war. Domoto: I was allowed to leave the relocation center for Crystal Lake, Illinois. Riess: You were active before the war? Domoto: Yes, I was active in Cal Hort before that. I used to go to meetings and bring material in. But it wasn't until after the war some time that I really got active in it. Riess: Do you remember seeing Anita Blake and Mabel Symmes before the war? Domoto: Oh. yes. They used to come to my father's nursery in Oakland. That I remember as a youngster, that they used to come in — probably that would be between 1925-1930 they used to come in. I never waited on them, because I was a youngster then. But my father used to wait on them. I remember them talking, and sometimes they'd talk about a certain plant. Then Mrs. Blake would say, "Tom," — that was my father's name, Thomas, but they all called him Tom — "I think that this should be named so-and-so," or, "Do you 329 Domoto: know that?" My father would say. "No, I know this is the way I bought it. so-and-so." I'd heard them talking about it. That was mostly with Mrs. Blake. Miss Symmes was very quiet, and I knew her later when she used to come by. Those times when she was buying something for the garden, Mrs. Blake would pick out or look at the plant, and then she'd ask her sister, "What do you think about this?" Her sister would say, "I think it would be all right." She was buying plants for her client, and there seemed to be a sort of a very quiet sort of a dividing line there. One would make the comment, and the other wouldn't, you see. I remember at the Cal Hort meetings it was the same way. I don't think Mrs. Blake ever went up to the podium to discuss the plant material. The plants were exhibited up on the stage, and whoever was chairman then would say, "Now this material was brought over from the Blake Gardens," and then the person would go up there and talk about the material. They'd go on and describe it, and how it grew. That was the way the program was conducted. Riess: You mean. Mrs. Blake wouldn't get up and describe it herself? Domoto: I don't remember her getting up. Miss Symmes, I think, did a couple of times. I remember the Blake Garden material more later, after [Walter] Vodden came. He used to bring the materials over, and he used to describe them. Riess: Why do you think Mrs. Blake didn't get up? Domoto: Well, she was very unassuming. As I remember, some of the East Coast society type customers who'd come out — some of them were very demanding, and some were very quiet and unassuming. I think the difference was there. She never tried to show off her knowledge. Riess: But your father thought that she was very knowledgeable. Domoto: Oh, yes. she was, because when they started to discuss certain plants they could converse on the botanical names and more on the culture of the garden material. Riess: Would you think that she was, in fact, head and shoulders above other society people about plants? Domoto: I think so. Well, she never tried to show it off. Riess: For instance, some of the other "society customers" — are you thinking of someone like Mrs. [Lurline Matson] Roth? 330 Domoto: Well, Mrs. Roth really didn't get into her garden itself until after she gave up her racing. You see, she used to exhibit those horses. I think not so ouch riding, I think she was — Riess: Harness racing. Domoto: Harness racing. She was active in that. After she gave that up, then her efforts became more active into the garden. The early part of it, 1 think, she was more interested just in having somebody come over, order the plants for her, and put them in the garden. At that point, when she retired to the garden and gave up the society side of life, that's when she became interested. Riess: It's interesting to me who might have been comparable to Mrs. Blake and Miss Symmes. What other fine, old gardening ladies do you think of? Domoto: Well, going back, of course, the person that was quite active in the introduction of plant materials was Professor [H.M.] Butterf ield. Riess: Butterf ield. I saw his name in early Cal Hort journals. Domoto: I called him professor, but I don't think he was full professor. But he was of the Extension Division, and very active in the Alameda County Horticultural Society. Riess: But any amateurs that you think of? Domoto: Oh, in the amateur line, in the early part of the Cal Hort Society, was Mrs. Scannavino — she was very active in the Alameda County Horticultural Society way back. I think her husband was a dentist, and they had a home down near Saratoga. They had quite a collection of irises and lilacs and different plants. She was very knowledgeable plantwise. Riess: How would you characterize the garden at Blake Garden? Domoto: Well, you know, I have often been invited by these people to come: "Will you come to look at my garden?" I thought that if you go, you get to the point where you felt there was a certain amount of rivalry between these people, these customers. If you went to one, you had to go to the other if you want to keep them as customers, you know. So I said, "Well. I know how to grow the plants, and I can tell you if you give me a location whether they grow there, or not. But as far as design," I said, "I don't know anything about it." I maintained that so that I never went. My father also would not visit customers' gardens. 331 Domoto: The only visit I had to Blake Gardens — she had some Clematis armandi variety growing in the garden. Evidently she grew some from seed, and had one that was an improvement over it. She exhibited it at the Hort Society, since the clematis was in vogue. I wanted to get some cuttings to propagate it, but the exhibited material was not the type that would be suitable for propagating. She said, "Well, if you'd come up to the garden you can take what you want." That was the only time I went. And even then I didn't take the whole tour of the garden. I just ignored it. The vine was climbing on a tree trunk. As I remember it, the garden was kept up, but — this was just my impression, I may be wrong — but my impression was that it was a garden you liked to be in. but not to show off in. That was the feeling I had, and that would be her personality, that she was knowledgeable and would do her duty in whatever she does. She wasn't bragging to the community that she was doing this or doing that. She had different things planted in different areas wherever they would do well. I think that's the impression I have of the garden. - 332 The Search for Uncommon Plant Material Riess : When she was asking you, and when she was asking your father to come and visit, wasn't she asking because she thought you would love to see her plants, not the design, but just the plants? Domoto: Yes. I don't know if she was importing, or friends would send her things from someplace like England or other areas and she'd have it in the garden. My father always was importing a lot of different things. So she would say, "I just got such-and-such from Japan," or wherever, and, *ttow is yours doing? Did you get this and that?" If my father had something that she hadn't gotten and got ready to sell, if it was interesting she'd always buy a plant. But how or where she planted, I never knew. I wasn't interested that much then. Riess: If your father got something in that was new and exotic, would he automatically tell her? Domoto: He never used to phone or anything. They'd come 'out, and they'd start talking. See. generally new plants from abroad used to come in in late winter or early spring, because that was about the only time you could bring them in safely. Riess: Bare root, is this? Domoto: Bare rooting wasn't done until much later, after plant quarantine 137 went into effect. Then they had to bare root. Before that, why, you would bring the plants in with soil on the roots. Riess: So people like Mrs. Blake would know that in winter they should check out Domoto's to see what's new. Domoto: Even now most of the new material that the nurseries import would come in in the fall. They try to stock them in the fall and have it ready for the spring sale. It was a very seasonal business. Now. of course, the merchandising nurseries try to make it as even as possible, without a lot of big tips and downs. 333 Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto Riess: Domoto: She had people she corresponded with, and she would get seeds in the letters — I don't know that part of it, but I know that she used to get different plant material that other people hadn't gotten yet. Whether she traveled, or' corresponded — a lot of the plant amateurs in those days were in correspondence with other people and other botanical gardens, or someone, not necessarily the gardeners, but the person that's in charge. They would exchange notes: "Do you have this?" or, "When I get back, I'll send you a seed or a cutting." That's about the way, I think, a lot of that was done. Of course, some of the English nurseries used to send catalogues out to those people, just like Wayside Gardens does to the society type, where their prices are way above the normal garden prices. The prices are way above what a normal nursery charges? If you look at the Wayside Garden catalogues, they are beautiful catalogues, but their prices are way above. They prided themselves in sort of being the best. They have good material, but I don't think it warrants the high prices they get for them. Did you see, when you were in Cal Hort, a lot of competitiveness among the gardeners? No, I don't think they — there may have been, between some of the people trying to outdo the other on some things. But on the whole I don't think there was. I would say that most of the members that came to the Hort came to see and be educated. Riess: And to share. Domoto: Yes. And there was always a problem to keep enough of the active members bringing in material. Some of the membership, unless they were into a certain hobby which they were very familiar with, they hesitated bringing something in, unless they were encouraged to bring it in. And on that score I think Mr. [Ernest] Wertheim was very good in trying to encourage people. He was active and he was forceful. I think he came from Germany, and being trained that way, he was very thorough. He was active in it, never a person that would make you feel you were being pushed at all, but he would see that things were organized. I call it the German thoroughness in getting detail worked, out. He and Victor Reiter, who has passed away, they were very active. Riess: So the horticultural society also would be more interested in plant material than they would be in looking at gardens? 334 Domoto: Yes, plant material. And, of course, if they went on a field trip they would go to someone's gardens, or something like that. But most of the interest was in plant materials. The meetings would be — if new material was being brought in we would discuss it, and have a speaker. Most of the time you'd have a speaker first. You would have, say, one hour or forty-five minutes to talk on certain things, like on — oh, anything exotic, or even commonplace, irises, or whatever. They would have a talk on it. Mostly, they did more uncommon material, rather than common, because you had special societies. Like they had the Rose Society, African Violet Society, and Orchid Society. So those things were kind of held on the short side, because if they were interested in that, it would be possible for them to go to those special societies. So it was more the new and unusual plants that were being tried or brought in. The speaker would know some botanist, horticulturist, or visitor from another area. They would arrange to have him on the program of the meetings. The last half would be discussing the plant material that was displayed up there on the stage. The material that came in was put in the foyer rack, and the people would put their name displayed there on a little card. Then the committee would go through that, and while they were speaking, they would try to go through and pick out the material that would be of interest or different. That material would be picked out by a committee of maybe I think about three or four people — and there was a chairman — and as they were picked out they would be brought up to the stage and exhibited so that the whole thing would not be discussed. Then the chairman would say, "In the plant material back there there's such and such a display of iris, or something, brought in by so and so, that you should look at." The special material would be brought up to the stage, and each one would be discussed as it's brought up by whoever brought that in or someone speaking for them. Meeting places changed as the membership increased, but the format of the Hort Society and meetings remained stable. Riess: When Walter Vodden came, it was because Mrs. Blake was so old that she didn't want to come, or what? Domoto: I don't exactly know just when that thing changed, but Mr. Wertheim would know. He was very active, and still is active. Riess: When Miss Symmes was there, did she talk? Domoto: Sometimes. 1 know they used to come there, and bring the material in, but 1 don't remember either one of them going up too often. 335 The Nurseryman's Point of View Riess: It's very nice that you knew them, or at least you saw them when they were young. You were very young. Domoto: Yes. Most of the people that would come out to buy from my father, a good many would drive their own car. I remember in those days they would come with chauffeurs. Riess: Mrs. Blake and Miss Symmes came with a chauffeur? Domoto: I think they had chauffeurs mostly. Not until later did people of society decide to drive their own cars. There used to be the feeling that in order to get around in the car. you had to have someone that knew how to drive it. It wasn't until much later that everybody would drive a car. Riess: Did Mr. Blake come out with them? Domoto: Hardly. A couple of times later to my nursery in Hay ward. I remember him coming out with her to look at the tree peonies. I don't think that his interest was quite that much into the garden. He knew of the plants, but I don't think too much of it. Riess: Did he come to Gal Hort meetings? Domoto: No. I don't remember him coming to the Cal Hort. Tom Domoto and the Piedmont Customers Riess: Where was your father's business first? Domoto: The nursery was first in Oakland. He started the nursery down at Third and Grove. That was just in the beginning. Then he moved out to East Oakland, that's on Fifty-Fifth Avenue. In those days it was known as Central Avenue. That's where he really got the nursery started. 336 Riess: Do you remember any of his comments about the Blakes? Domoto: No. He hardly ever made any comments that way. The only thing I know that I remember is in the discussion of plant material, that they were talking on equal level. Some of the other people, they were asking about whether this plant grows better than that plant. Riess: I wonder if your father supplied them with any of the plants that they had before they moved to Blake Estate. First they lived on Piedmont Avenue where the Memorial Stadium of the University later was built. Domoto: He must have because, as I remember — I don't know when they moved up to Blake Gardens. Riess: Nineteen twenty-three or twenty-four, I think. Domoto: It would be before that when they were buying it. I always used to think of them as Piedmont customers. Like the Blakes and — Riess: Well, the [Duncan] McDuffies maybe? Domoto: Yes. The old McDuffie place, and the Crockers, and [Herman] Nicholses. Riess: These were the Piedmont customers? Domoto: Yes. And some of them even later, to my Hayward location. I remember the Nicholses, both the parents and the daughter used to come out. I don't remember the granddaughter, but the daughter, until several years ago. Riess: Did your father, or do you, ever keep records by the customers so you could go back and pinpoint everything that they had bought over the years? • Domoto: I did at one time. Not my father's records because those belonged to the corporation in Oakland. But in Hayward I did until I needed storage space. My auditor said, "Well, you don't have to keep too many records." He gave me a list of material which I would have to keep. I looked up some of my old invoices for this meeting, and they only go back to about '69-'70. Riess: It would be interesting. Domoto: Certain ones from Piedmont would come in at azalea season to buy azaleas or camellias. General plant material went to those gardens when they were in the formative period; not so much the owners themselves but whoever was doing the landscaping would come out and buy the plants for them. 337 Floyd Mick. George Budgen, Thomas Church Domoto: Very few of those people. I remember, did their own gardening, so somebody, the gardener or someone, came with them. If they liked the plant they would buy it and put it in. Most of the gardens were all designed. Floyd Mick in Berkeley, he did a lot of those gardens here. Riess : Domoto: In fact. Miss Symmes was a professional landscape architect. she doing other peoples' gardens? Was Oh. yes. She was doing that mostly. I don't think the home garden much, because there I think her sister more or less decided what she'd like, and then she had it planted. I think that was the way it was then, judging from the conversation that they used to get into when they were out looking around. Mrs. Blake would like a certain variety, and Miss Symmes would say, "Yes, I think we could use them." If Mrs. Blake liked it, all right, she'd find a place for it. Riess: I see. Did you ever, though, see Miss Symmes come in with any of her other customers? Domoto: I may have, but generally I don't remember so much. Riess: Did the sisters look alike? Domoto: I would say, as far as stature, they were built pretty much the same way. I guess their demeanor about the same too. Miss Symmes always kind of deferred to Mrs. Blake as though — I'm not sure, I think she was the older sister. Anita was the older sister. Miss Symmes was like a younger sister, you know. I always had that feeling. Riess: The Blakes had had Walter Vodden in 1957. He came because of the University. But before that was there a gardener you associated with the gardens? Domoto: I don't know who the gardener was then. They must have had a gardener there before. Riess: Apparently there was an Indian fellow they had who used to work for them. Domoto: Mr. Mick is available. He lives in, I guess, Oakland. It's Floyd Mick. Riess: Yes. I think I talked to him once a long time ago. You think he would remember? 338 Domoto : Riess : Domoto: Riess: Domoto: He might. You see, he and George Budgen of the Berkeley Hort — they are about the same period. George started a nursery out there in Berkeley. I think Mr. Mick was getting started in the landscape design business. Tommy Church along about that period too. I know that as far as the gardens over in Piedmont and other areas in the Oakland hills, that Mr. Mick was instrumental in doing a lot of the gardens there. Was he a designer on the scale of Tommy Church? I don't think he wac that he had done. -actually I've never gone to all the gardens As 1 have them classified, there are those that do the gardens to be doing a good garden, and others would like to do a garden to show off. The one garden is a garden that's designed to make it feel like it's not the designer's garden, but the person they're designing it for. In other words, you have a show garden, the personality is not displayed, but the architect's personality is displayed. The other is a home garden. I think Mr. Mick was the type that more or less designed a garden that would make the person feel like it was his own garden, whereas Tommy Church was designing the kind to show Tommy Church off. That's what his customers wanted, probably. "That's a Tommy Church garden." They wanted to say, Well, it starts out that way, but later on, why, you're still not satisfied with it. It's just like you go and buy a Gump's piece of furniture, and you don't like it. But just because it's from Gump's — . [laughter] Competitiveness in the Garden Domoto: It's the same as when people used to come out and buy certain plants from my father. They'd say, "Did Mrs. So-and-So buy that? What [did] she buy?" My father would say, "Well, I don't know." He never used to say exactly what. Then they'd say, they would go on, "What about this plant? Is this good?" "Do you think it would look good in my garden?" *Vell, it should grow there." And they would buy it. Sometimes two or three people would come out together. One person would buy the plant. The next one would say, "Oh, I must have one too." [laughs] But in most cases before delivery they would say, "I've changed my mind about that plant. I don't think I want it." We'd laugh because the one that was already there had the funds. The other one was climbing and trying to be up there but she didn't have the funds to spend. 339 Riess: That's a very interesting observation. Domoto: Anyone buying, most of the time if they were serious buyers they'd never bring anybody else, they'd come on their own. If they were coming as a group you'd always make a sale to someone, but it would never be on the basis of 'actually wanting. Sometimes they'd want to show off. and they'd buy. If they had the funds they would buy. Different personalities. Mrs. Roth was never that way. She'd always come out and say, "I want something for my garden," and this and that. A lot of things were left up to me to pick out for her. Colorwise, why, she knew which colors and what shades she liked. Otherwise, plantwise — . Most of the time she used to come by herself, not even with a gardener. Riess: Interesting. When Mrs. Blake and Miss Symmes came to you, were they looking for plants that were associated with the Orient? I don't think so. In my place I was more in camellias and azaleas than I was in some of the other plant material. Almost always in camellia season or azalea season they would come out and see if they could find a new variety to introduce to the garden. Incidentally, since I liked oddball plants, I'd find something. She'd say, "Well, what else do you have that's new?" or something like that. I'd say, "Well, this, and this." She'd say. "Oh. yes. I have that from a seed that I got from Australia," or something. "Mine is only about so high, and it never has flowered." We'd get into a discussion that way. Domoto; Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess: Domoto You had mentioned peonies, garden? I don1 1 think so. Did they have an interest in a cutting It was mostly perennial, shrubby — ? As I remember, I think mostly shrubs, maybe perennials too. But since I wasn't into the perennials at all, why, I don't know. But I have the feeling that certain parts of the garden were perennials and flowers. The Piedmont [Avenue] garden, the way it was laid out I don' t know. So your specialty was flowering shrubs. Shrubs, yes. 340 Anita Blake and the Relocated Japanese Families Riess: I came across correspondence in Mrs. Blake's letters that are in The Bancroft Library, with Japanese families who were relocated. I wondered if you knew about that. Domoto: I heard that she was very good that way. But she was never one to say. "Well, I did this or that." Riess: How did you hear it then? Domoto: I think it was either one of my father's customers or something saying that, "I had a pretty tough time, and she helped me then." There were several people of that pre- relocation period that got talking to my dad. They wouldn't say who they were doing it for, but, "I have a family I'd like to get this for," or something like that. Riess: Was it unusual then? Domoto: I think so. And as far as I remember, some of the customers who came out would be dressed high fashion. As I remember her, she was always well-dressed, but never the flamboyant type. You know, some like to show off their clothes. She probably had — it was good material, but it wasn't one that said, Tiere I have the — " you know. That type. I never got that feeling at all. Riess: And so it was very natural for her to help the Japanese family? Domoto: Or any other one that was in the group that would be in need. Riess: By "in the group" you mean that she met these people through Cal Hort? Domoto: I don't think so. I don't think Cal Hort. Riess: How many Japanese gardeners were in Cal Hort? 341 Domoto: Riess: Domoto: Riess : Domoto: Riess : Domoto : Very few. I remember only about one or two used to come in once in a while to the meeting. Most of them not. either because of the language difficulty or else they weren't — . I remember Pete Sugawara, he used to come in. I don't know whether these families that she helped were working at the Blake Garden. I think most of the Japanese who came in as gardeners came usually as a couple. The wife would work in the house, and the husband would either work in the garden, or sometimes, if he was good, he'd be hired as a chauffeur. And then they would have a room there in the house to live in. Yes. I haven't heard of that up there, though. Blakes had that. I don't think the I don't think by the time they went up to Berkeley. Maybe when they were in Piedmont [Avenue], they may have. As far as helping that way, they may have some other — . The people that were actually helping the Japanese during the evacuation, those that did very seldom talk about it because it wasn't the proper thing to do. It would be very much on the quiet side, and you were surprised where you got help from — the people that you least suspected that you would get any help from. The ones that you thought were friends, they shunned you, and not even a word from some of them. That was my experience, and I understand that's the way it was with a lot of the others too. I would think Mrs. Blake would have done it because of a personal relationship with the family, and she wouldn't speak much about it. She bought a lot of Chinese scrolls and she had Asian art in her house. Maybe she really had an unusual sympathy with the Orient. Well, with that type of material, whoever she bought the material from, she probably got to know the dealer pretty well personally. Because of that connection, why, she may have bought more things that way. 342 Pricing and Bargaining Riess: I've been reading about the beginning of Gump's, because I'm going to do an oral history with Richard Gump. A lot of the early history of Gump's talks about how A.L. Gump learned how to deal with the merchants in China, and how he convinced them to show him their best things. Was it the same when Mrs. Blake came out here? Would your father only show her something if she really looked like she knew her business? And do you feel the same way? Domoto: No. See, my father's actual business experience was learned the hard way here in the United States. I think his interest in the person was more from the standpoint of whether they were interested in the plant itself. But the rest of the time, if they came in and were interested to buy, his idea was to sell on that basis. Riess: He didn't hold back special things for special customers? Domoto: No. I don't remember him doing that. I'm not sure of the name now, but I think it was a Mr. [James K.j Moffitt, he always used to come out with a chauffeur. "When you go out to Demotes." he used to say, "if you go out with a chauffeur and a Fierce-Arrow, he's going to charge you one price, and if you go out with a Ford, it's another price." I think my dad used to do it that way. [laughs] Funny thing, one day Mr. Moffitt came out in the chauffeur's car, driving it himself. My father, when he got through laughing, he said, "You don't fool me." [laughter] My father was laughing with Mr. Moffitt, and he says, 'KJkay." But as far as most of the prices, there'd be one price he'd quote and it would be the same price he'd quote to anybody else. My father was a good psychologist, I think, in thinking back. The old Hellman Estate, which is now the Dunsmuir House, next to that was the place where the zoo is now, that used to be the Chabot place, I think — . 343 Riess: I don't know the family — Chabot is an Oakland name. Maybe you'll get it and can fill it in. Why don't you tell the story. Domoto: There were a number of people that owned the place next to the Hell man's. Anyway, he married a chorus girl, and I remember them coming out to father's place to buy. She was very outspoken. I remember one day, everything my father'd quote, she'd always say, "That's too high. Make it cheaper." I remember going around sometimes behind them to tag some of the things they'd pick out, for my father. When they got through my father told her, "You want to pay your price or my price?" She said, "My price." "You sure?" "Yes." "All right," he says, "here's your price; here's my price." His price was a lot lower because he had jacked the price up. [laughter] She didn't know the material. In other words, she was strictly on the basis of bargaining. In most of the old countries you go to, it's a bargaining basis. If you buy it at the first price, why, you're losing face. After that when she used to come up and buy, she'd always tell him, "I want that. I want this, and I want that," and never a question about the price. She was a good psychologist too; having grown up the hard way, she knew that if you trust them you get the right plant. Riess: Yes. Well, that's something that's difficult to figure out in some situations. Domoto: If you don't know the material, and if you don't trust the person, don't buy from them. If you trust the person you go by what he says. If you don' t 1 ike it, why, youjust leave it. Riess: For the Blakes, money was not an issue? Domoto: I don't know that part of it. But I know as far as — we used to have what they called clean buyers and some buyers who always used to try to bargain. Of course, those that used to buy from my father wanted it to come out the same way. I said, "No. I don't do it that way. I quote one price, the wholesaler price, and the retailer price. It's the same whether you come today or tomorrow. If the plant gets bigger, it'll be more. If the plant gets poorer or out of date, you get lower." Whether they come in a Fierce- Arrow or anything else, it makes no difference." Riess: Actually, because Miss Symmes was a professional, she might have a different price. Domoto: Well. yes. See, there'd be a retail price. Landscape people would get, depending on the volume, mostly a 20 percent discount off of the retail. Or in some cases, if they were big volume they would 344 Domoto: get the regular wholesale price. But I think in most cases, until about the NRA days, along after the Depression when the government was trying to regulate prices and everything, until then most nurseries had what they called a volume deal, or else they'd each have an individual price. There were no definite price structures. You could go to one nursery and buy a gallon at one price, and you'd go to another nursery and it's another price. Riess: What other local nurseries were there? Domoto: The Sunset Nursery. It used to be in Piedmont. They supplied a lot of the smaller shrub type of material to the Piedmont area. Then Berkeley Kort got into shrubbery too. He was at first quite a bit of the perennial type of material. The Sunset was — their nursery was operated quite a bit — I think that was really, I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that they were operated by people who were maybe gardeners at first. Then Sandkeule and Carlson, the two partners, they became Sunset Nursery. They had a lot of the gardener trade there in Piedmont. I know the bedding plant people liked to supply them because they were always good pay. Then shrubwise, right in this area, my father's place. Then California Nursery, in Niles. Riess: Over the years did they come out every year, Mrs. Blake and Miss Symmes? Now we're talking postwar and the '50s. Domoto: Yes. At least once a year in the season, when things were in blossom, I used to see either one or the other. Riess: Would they make an appointment ahead of time to say that they were coming? Domoto: No. About the only one that ever made any appointments like that to come in was Mrs. Roth, and Andrew Welch in San Mateo. They were part of the Welch pineapple people. You know, the Hawaiian people. The Nichols family in Piedmont, they were part of the Hawaiian group too. Riess: Well, are you tempted to go out and look at the Blake Garden now. after all these years? Domoto: No, my interests are limited now. I have gone to some afterward. Like all the Japanese gardens, they always want me to look at them. Well. I look at them as plant material, not the design. I appreciate it. But my interest is not that way. My brother went into the design part, and he's doing landscaping back east now. But as far as the flower shows, there were days when I used to put in the displays and help. Riess: So you're really interested in the individual plant. 345 Domoto: More on the plant side than the design. But since I like to draw and things like that. I guess I had a feeling for certain arrangements. I never tried to follow any design pattern or any set rule. If it pleased my eye. I was satisfied. Transcriber: Catherine Woolf Final Typist: Elizabeth Eshleman 346 Appendix H Toichi Domoto Accessions to the Filoli Gardens* Received 1977 1977 1986 & 1987 1987 1987 1990 1992 Before 1977 Plant Styrax japonicum (Japanese snowbell) by gate into Woodland Garden. Planted by.. L. Tolmach. Prunus subhirtella 'Pendula' (2) ungrafted seedling selections N. and S. of Wedding Place. Single pink. Planted by gardeners, Jim Bennett, L. Tolmach, John S imada . Japanese Maple Collection. See two Filoli lists following [Japanese Maples 4/21/87]. Euonymus alata 'Compacta.' Walled Garden. Syringa vulgaris. Unusual dark ruby color. Center path through bulb slope East side Yew Allee. Tree Peonies. See Filoli map of Tree Peonies in the Cutting Garden, 10/24/90. Japanese Iris Collection (Komo Variety) . About 1000 seedlings hand-pollinated by Toichi Domoto. Planted out into the vegetable gardens and into pots for the garden pools. No records exists of Domoto Accessions prior to 1977, but in discussions with Toichi I feel that the following plants could have come from his nursery because he has asked me about their condition: Osmanthus fragrans 'aurantiacus. ' Tree Peony Bed. Wisteria cultivars of sinensis, floribunda, and venusta. Throughout . Camellias --reticulata, japonica, sasanqua. Throughout Walled Garden. Toichi told me that they supplied the cherries. 347 Kurume Azaleas -- Ward ' s Ruby, Hinodegiri, Hino-crlmson, etc. Mr. Ward was Mr. Domoto's business partner and worked with Tom Domoto importing the Kurume azaleas from Japan. Mr. Ward owned Cottage Gardens Nursery in Eureka, California. Paeonia suffruticosa. Original tree peony found here and there in Walled Garden and Sunken Garden Area. Also the bed of old plants in SW corner of Cutting Garden. Citrus reticulata 'Owari.' Dutch Garden Wall. Laurus nobilis. Walled Garden by Teahouse. Acer palmatum. Many cultivars. Throughout gardens. information compiled by Lucy Tolmach, Garden Superintendent [1978-present] Filoli Center, Canada Road, Woodside California 94062. [Handwritten notes typed by Regional Oral History Office.] 0u/oC& to tfie Gardens 349 36 35 34 5 w » 2 32 t 31 = 30 « 29 28 27 .£ BCD X X &# ^F I L 0 L I PEONIES IN THE CUTTING C.\RD£N 36 35 34 33 j. +* 32 £ 31 30 29 28 4 D - Itoh hybrid, Yellow finperor 5 B - Ooffloto hybrid 5 D - Souvenir Maxin Cornu 6 D - Lutea hybrid, Alice Harding 7 D - Argosy 3D- Stardust 9 D - Wine de Or 10 C - Donoto hybrid 10 0 - Argosy 11 D - Yellow not identified 12 B - Donoto hybrid 14 o - Donoto hybrid 16 D - Golden Era 17 D - Age of Gold, Lutea hybrid 18 U - Golden Mandarin, Lutea Hybrid N 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 16 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 Op op 26 25 23 22 21 20 5 19 <£ 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 A •»* 5 4 a Extended Page — - - _____.. -.„.„_„......., —.•»%.*• 11JUA4.U 19 D - High Noon, Lutea hybrid 350 20 D - Marchioness. Lutea hybrid 21 B - Domoto hybrid 21 D - Zephyr us 22 D - Thunderbolt, Lutea hybrid 23 A - Domoto hybrid 23 C - Leda 23 D - Gauguin 24 A - Domoto hybrid 24 B - Domoto hybrid 25 A - Domoto hybrid 2ft A - Domoto hybrid 29 C - Domoto hybrid 31 C - Domoto hybrid All unidentified plants (except 11 D) are unnamed Domoto seedlings Symbols used in Plot Plan; X -> Space available ©- Plant 0 - Space not usable 5 - Sprinkler Head F - Faucat £ - Electric Outlet FT - Fruit Tree Sh - Shrub i. 4 tiWfT JAJ;ANESE MAPLES Japanese Maples received from T. Domoto. Reference: "Japanese Maples" by J. D. Vertrees, and the page numbers listed herein are referring to that book. Plant numbers *re from the Master List of plants received, Plant No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Acer griseum, Paper Bark Maple Acer griseum, Paper Bark Maple Acer palmatura Acer palmatum 'Tatsuta gawa' 'Matsu kazef Acer - unknown S-79 Acer palmatum linearilobum ' Atrolineare1 Reference Page 152 152 80 60 89 351 ° «• — . 9 Acer palmatum 'Scolopendrifolium* 91 13 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 14 Acer palraatua 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 15 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire1 128 16 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 17 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 18 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire* 128 19 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 20 Acer palraatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 21 Acer paJmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 22 Acer palmatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire' 128 23 Acer palraatum 'Seigai' 'Bonfire* 128 25 Acer palmatum 'Beni kagarai ' 76 26 Acer palmatum 'Beni kagarai' 76 27 Acer palraatum 'Orido nishiki' 115 28 Acer palmatum 'Orido nishiki' 115 29 Acer palraatum 'Orido nishiki' 115 30 Acer palmatum 'Orido nishiki' 115 - 1 - „ Plant m f Referenc No. *~ Page 31 Acer palmatum 'Okushimo' 126 32 Acer palmatum linearilobum 89 33 Acer palmatum 'liatsugae* 113 34 Acer palmatum 'Oshu beni' 56 36 Acer palmatum 'Shishigashira' 129 37 Acer palmatum dissectum atropurpureum 'Ever Red' 65 38 Acer palmatum dissectum atropurpureum, 64 Red Lace Leaf Maple 39 Acer palmatum dissectum 'Viridis' 74 40 Acer palmatum dissectum 'Waterfall' 74 41 Acer palmatum 'Sango kaku' 127 42 Acer Japonicum f. aconitifolium, Fern Leaf Maple 135 43 Acer palmatum 'Osakazuki* 55 44 Acer palmatum 'Chiahio* 119 45 Acer palmatum *•£•£* 'Aoyagi' 47 AO to 352 Extended Page 1. 6 49 Acer - unknown - red, large leaf 50 Acer palmatuB 'Tatsuta gawa' ou 51 Acer palmatum 'Chiahio' 52 Acer palmatum 'Seigmi' 'Bonfire' 4/21/87 JAPANESE MAPLES Location of Japanese Maples received from T. Domoto. 45 Maples received 2/14/86, and all planted in the Gardens in March, 1987. Locations are on "Plant Guide for Filoli Gardens". Plant numbers refer to Master List of Maples received. Plant No. A. Entrance Courtyard and Driveway. A.I North Side of Courtyard. A.I, page 1 22 North of Portico (already on your list) A.I, page 1 19 Back in the corner (already on your list) A.I, page 1 20 Just East of Ballroom steps A. 2 South Side of Courtyard. A. 2, page 2 21 South of portico (already on your list) A. 2, page 2 23 Under servants' wing (already on your list) B. Area North of House. B.I Against House B.I, page 6 52 Just West of Handicap Ramp B.2 North Walk from Driveway to North Terrace Steps. B.2, page 6 16 Daphne Walk 21 (should be 17) Daphae Walk 18 Daphne Walk B.2, page 7 14 Daphne Walk 13 Daphae Walk B.2, page 9 15 Under Iron Balcony H. Western Walled Garden. H.5.5, page 6 4 38 Al«o in II. 5. 5, page 6 - Weeping cnerry 353 I. Woodland Garden. 1.3, Bed 2 43 1.4, Bed 3 25 26 27 28 29 30 33 royc it J. Pool Pavilion Area. J.3 Behind Pool Pavilion. J.3, page 2 41 By Rhododendron 'Cary Ann1 On J.3, page 3, there are 2 Japanese Maples Acer palmatum 'Sangokaku'. These were planted last year and are not from Doraoto. One is already on your plant list. J.4.1 In Shade North of Yews. J.4.1, page 8 1 Near Philadelphia* 2 Near English Holly K. South Side of Walled Garden to Beginning of Chart res. K.2, page 2 37 K.8, page 4 9 L. Entrance to and Area West of Yew Alice. L.5, page 6 3 Hydrangea Bed, South of Path 5 Hydrangea Bed, South of Path 44 North of Path 45 Hydrangea Bed, South of Path 51 North of Path 0. High Place. 0.1, page 11 50 0.2, page 11 34 49 Q. Chartres Cathedral Window Garden. Q.I.I, page 1 8 R. East of Tea House. R, page 5 36 By gate to Green Truck area S. South of Carriage House. S.I, page 1 6 East side of path 7 West side of path 32 East side of path Note: Plant #48 has not yet been placed in the gardens, but is in a tub by Area #2 tool shed. 354 Extended Page 1. 6 voi/n onocx NO — OUR OftOEII NO. 24S21 WHITMAN STUEtT TOICHI DOMOTO " PHONS 582-9550 HAYWAID. CALIF SOLD TO ADDRESS SHIP TO — ADDRESS _ DESCRIPTION WHEN BMlF AMOUNT" I _1>^ __ ;• __ $ fiJ ^ ' — — 1 OKI _5Jhj\tLft . 1' 1 L * Y* « cv\- ^ o b]/vvj _ _L... - "I ____ ~ ••T""'- ___ -b.&r,i Of BE* NO. OU» OttDBR NO., TOICHI DOMOTO 24511 WHITMAN STREET (Off Sore™ "Tkt H«ITH PHONE S82-9S50 HAYWARD, CALIF« Soto TO- ADDRESS- \ \ D-\ -(- SHIP TO- ADDRESS. TFRMB HOW SHIP QUANTITY DESCRIPTION WHEN 6HIP PRICE |( AMOUNT v ~v Extended Page i, 356 INDEX- -Toichi Domoto Adachi, family, 20; Adachi Florist and Nursery, 221 African Violet Society, 144, 147 Agard, Harriet, 43 agricultural commissioners , 148-149, 230-231 Agricultural Extension, UC Berkeley, 148 Ah Sam [Mabel] Florist, 147 Alameda, Alfred, 116 Alameda County Horticultural Society, 48 Alien Land Law, 1913, 82-83, 237, 241-243 Amache Relocation Center, Granada, Colorado, 179ff-185, 216 American Association of Nurserymen, 157, 176 American Peony Society, 187, 200-201 Anthony, Earle C. , Packard Building, Oakland, 127 Araki, Frank, 116 Asai, Mr. [gardener for Andrew Welch family] , 130 Bank of Italy [Bank of America], 237 Berkeley Horticultural Nursery, 129, 228 Blake, Anita Symmes [Mrs. Anson Blake], 205 Blake Estate, garden, Kensington, California, 205 Bobink and Atkins Nursery, New Jersey, 38, 196-197 bonsai, culture, 13, 40-57, 209-210 Boyce Thompson Institute, New York, 143-144, 199 Browse, Philip, 232 Budgen, George, 129, 228 Burpee Seed Co . , 144 Burr, Charles, 113, 154, 160 Butterfield, Harry M. , 148 Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, 96 California Association of Nurserymen, 106, 151ff-167; Peninsula chapter, 160, 176; Central chapter, 106, 154, 160, 224-225 California College of Arts and Crafts, Oakland, 215 California Flower Market, San Francisco, 157-158, 162 California Horticultural Society, 46, 124, 134, 145, 159-160, 198, 203-207, 239-240 California Native Plant Society, 208 California Nursery, Niles, 154, 220, 225 camellias: growing, 6, 28-29, 53-54, 69, 141-143, 160-161; camellia trees, 71-72; camellia era; 113- 116, 126, 146; patents, 141-142; reticulata; 142-143; camellia petal blight, 148-149 Camellia Society, 161, 206, 224 Garden, Merle, 162, 173 Carmen, Ed, 142 Chabot family, Oakland, 8 Chinese, discrimination against, 150, 183 Christian Scientists, 174-175 Chrysanthemum Growers Association, 224 Clarke, W.B., 125-126, 139, 142, 152, 175, 203, 208-209, 227, 238 Clarke [W.B.] Nursery, San Jose, 125 Coates [Leonard] Nursery, Santa Clara, 138-139, 230 Cornell University, 88-89, 99 Cosmopolitan Club, University of Illinois, 218 Cottage Garden Nursery, Eureka, 37- 38, 69-71, 75 Del Amo Nursery, 75, 209 Depression [Great Depression], 101, 121-122 357 Derr, Richard, 40-41, 150 Dohner, Herman, 90, 92 Domoto, Alice Okamoto [Mrs. Toichi Domoto], 27, 162, 169-172, 184- 185, 248; parents, 171-172, 248 Domoto, Allison, 247 Domoto, Douglas, 27, 245, 248-249 Domoto, Imako, 212 Domoto, Kaeko [Kaeko Nakajima], 180- 181, 212, 215 Domoto, Kaneji, 58-62, 130, 179, 215-216, 218-219, 245 Domoto, Kanetaro [Tom], and family, lff-40, 58ff-85, 100ff-105, 116- 117, 167, 179-184, 210, 211-219, 229 Domoto, Kichinoshin, 214 Domoto, Marilyn Teruko [Marilyn Webb], 178, 185, 245-249 Domoto, Matsue [Mrs. Takanoshin Domoto], 63-64, 215, 238, 244 Domoto, Mitsunoshin [Harry], 67-68, 214-215 Domoto, Motonoshin [Henry], 2, 103, 167, 182, 214, 218 Domoto, Sonoko [Sonoko Riusake] , 211-212 Domoto, Takanoshin [Frank], 2, 7, 76, 180, 182, 214, 237-238 Domoto, Teru [Mrs. Kanetaro Domoto], 1-2, 28-33, 65-68, 80, 217-218, 237-238, 243 Domoto, Toichi, on: discipline, 32- 33; discrimination, 19, 25, 35, 135-136, 150-151, 183, 207-208; English language, 17-18, 30; family relations, 181-182, 218- 219; flying, 163; friendships, 173-177; illnesses, 78-81; Japanese language, 14, 16-18, 65; pace of life, 209-210; racial slurs, 177; religion, 65-67, 174- 175, 213; schooling, Oakland, 30- 33, 64, 84; social drinking, 166- 167; travel by steamer, 76-77; typhoid fever, 78-81; values, moral system, 236ff-249 Domoto 's [Toichi] Nursery, lOOff- 126, 236-238; location, 100-105, 108; workers, 114-116, 119; equipment, 117-118; clearing the land, 118-119 Domoto, Tokuko [Tokuko Kishi] , 172, 178, 212, 215 Domoto, Wakako, 211, 215-217, 245 Domoto, Yuriko, 215-217 Domoto Bros., Inc., 5ff-105; employees, 15; incorporation, 83; bankruptcy, 100-105, 237; "Domoto College," 220-224 Doty, Paul, 227 Doty, Walter, 133 Doty and Doerner Co., Oregon, 227 Dreer [Henry A.] Nursery, 38 du Pont, Bunny [Mrs. Nicholas R. ] , 197-198 Dutra, Jack, 48 Enamoto, Bill, 221 entomology, 52-54 environmental cleanup, 22-24 Felsen, Don, 102 Ferry-Morse Seed Co., 144 Filoli, garden, Woodside, California 124, 133 floriculture, professional associations, 144 flower shows, 127-129, 140 Flowerland Nursery, southern California, 226 flu epidemic, 1917, 216-218 Geneva Sunnydale Nursery, 164-165, 229 Gilkey, Howard, 48, 127-128, 140 Gillespie, Norvel, 234-235 Gladiolus Society, 144 Goepner, Eddie, 147, 175, 222, 237 Golden Gate Park, 204; rhododendrons, 132 Guadalupe, California, Japanese families, 171-172 Hall, Stanley, 90 Hartman, Ray, 208, 230-231 Hawkins, Lester, 207 Hayashi's Nursery, 164, 229 358 Hayward, California, history, lOOff- 111; Portuguese, 102, 119-120; Whitman Road, 120-121 Hoff, Walter, 225, 233-234 Howard, Paul, 226 ikebana, 13 Ikihashi [professor, Stanford University] , 26 Iseyama, H. , 44-46 Italian growers in flower business, 157-158, 164-165; in camellias, 160-162 Jacobson [ " Jacoby" ] , 8 James [Frank James] Nursery, Oakland, 164, 229 Japanese American Citizens League [JACL] , 241 Japanese Americans : backyard gardeners, 107, 111-113, 136-137; Christian names, 61; cut flower business, 15, 20-22, 34, 36, 101; discrimination, 19, 25, 35-37, 135-136, 150, 152, 231; traditional celebrations, 67 Japanese beetles, 52 Japanese evacuation, WWII, and relocation, 8, 92-93, 168ff-186; Merced Assembly Center, 172-174, 178-179; post-war, 114-115, 216 Japanese gardens, in public parks, 62, 124; private, 130-131 Japanese grower associations, 156, 168 Japanese Tea Garden, Golden Gate Park, 62, 124 Kishi, Tokuko, 172, 178, 212, 215 Klehm, Roy, 193-194 Laemerts, Carl, 209 Lakeside Park, Oakland, 132 landscape design, women in, 91 Lang, Gordon, 149 League of Nations, 26 Livingston, California, 172-173, 178-179, 21-2-213, 224 Longwood Gardens, Pennsylvania, 197- 198 Matsu, Uye, 106, 151-152, 154-155 Matsutani, Henry, 49 McDonnell, nurseryman, 154 McLaren, John, 132, 204, 234 McLellan [Rod] Nursery, 21, 114, 140 McRorie -McLaren, landscaping, San Mateo, 234 Mick, Floyd, 129 Milan, Peter, 43, 116, 173, 182 Mills College, Oakland, 122-123, 215 Mitchell, Sydney, 207 Mizota, George, 26 Monrovia Nursery, 226 Mt. Eden Nursery, 22 Nabeta family, 20, 221 Nakajima, Kaeko, 180-181, 212, 215 Nakashima Nursery, Watsonville, 155- 156 Nomura, Japanese -American admiral, WWII, 26 Nuccio [Julius and Joe] Brothers Nursery, Altadena, 160-162, 166 nursery business: corsages, 114-115; economics , and landscape material popularity, 73-74, 145-147; fertilizer, 20-22, 108-109; field-grown flowers, 157-158; fumigation, 9-10, 34-35; fungicides, 23; garden centers, 153, 207, 226; grades and standards, 222-223; greenhouses, 12, 94, 96; prejudice in nursery business, 136-138; shipping plants, 9, 77-78; southern California, 138-139, 225-226; tin cans, plant containers, 112-113, 136-137 Nursery Metal and Container Co. , 112-113, 137 Oakland, California, neighborhoods, 1, 11, 30-32 Oakland Business Men's Garden Club, 129 Oakland Exposition Building, 48, 127 359 Oechslln, Frank, 88-89 Okamoto, Alice [Mrs. Toichi Domoto], 162, 169-172, 184-185, 248; family, 171-172, 248 Olbrich, Marshall, 207 Pacific Coast Horticultural Society, 85 Panama- Pacific International Exposition, 1915, 11, 37, 49-50, 62-63 Past, Howard, 226 Payne, Theodore, 208 Pearl Harbor, 168 Peterson, Alfred, 175, 225 Pilkington Nursery, 125 Pimental [Hayward neighbor of Domoto' s], 102 plants and trees discussed: acacia, 140-141; African violet, 147; araucaria, 72; aspidistra, 6, 28; azalea [Kurume azalea], 37-38, 53, 69-72, 75-76, 132; bay tree, 72; Boston fern, 147; boxwood, 72; California native plants, 208; camphor trees, 74; ceanothus, 208; cedar [Deodar cedar], 49, 120-122; Chamaecyparis , 49; chestnut, 6, 9-10, 28, 35; chrysanthemum, 22, 85, 158, 222-223; clematis armandii, 205; cypress [Italian cypress], 74-75; daphne odora, 6, 28, 69, 238-240; eugenia, 74; ferns [Davillia fern], 28-29; flowering trees, 74; fuchsia, 146; gerbera, 145-146; gingko, 74; hydrangea, 73; ivy [training Hahn's ivy], 45; laurel [Grecian laurel], 72; lilac, 208-209; Mandarin orange, 10; orchid, 146, 195; palm, 34, 74; persimmon, 6, 28; plum, 6, 28; poinsettia, 36; pot plants, 159; quince, 139, 141-142; rhododendron, 53-54, 132; rose, 19-20, 36, 51-52, 142, All-America, 227, 233; tree peony, 78, 187-202; violet, field-grown, 157-158; wisteria, 238. Also see bonsai, camellia plant patents, 141, 227, 232-233 plant brokers, 160, 162, 175, 201, 225, 227 Plath [Dick] and Sons Nursery, Colma, 159, 164 Podesta Baldocchi florists, 45, 145- 147, 222 Quarantine 37, 5, 9, 16, 37-38, 50, 73, 113, 191-192, 196 Raabe, Robert, 148 Reinelt, Frank, nurseryman, 206 Reinhardt, Aurelia, 123 Reiter, Victor, 204-206 Restani, brothers, 165, 229 Riusake, Sonoko, 211-212 rock gardens, 58 Rock, Joseph, plant explorer, 189 Roeding, George, 220, 225 Roth, Lurline Matson, 124 Sahlbach, Carl, 207 Sakai, Ted, 18-20, 24, 221 Salvation Army, in Japan, 8 San Francisco Flower Growers Association, 165 Sandkuhle, Herman, 228 Saratoga Horticultural Foundation, 208, 231-233 Saunders, A. P., 187, 200 Sawada, Shuho [Joe], 213-214 Schmidt, William, 159-160 Schramm's Nursery, 92-93, 184-186 seed companies , 144 Seulberger [Fred] Florist, Oakland, 230-231 Shibata, Yoshimi, 21-22 Shibata, Jerry, 145 Shibuya [Roy] Riohitsu, 220, 222 Silva Bergholdt Nursery, 6 Smirnow, peony hobbyist, 201-202 Sorensen, Hans, family, 102, 109- 111, 121 Spring Garden Show, Oakland, 48, 127-129 Staley, Esther, nurseryworaan, 174 360 Stanford University, 1992, Japanese students, 25-26, 85-88; International Club, 65; living codes, 246 Stanford-Binet test, 86 Star Nursery, Montebello, 106, 151, 223 strawberry root weevil, 53-54 Strybing Arboretum, San Francisco, 142, 206 Strybing Arboretum Society, 148 Sturtevant, Butler, 128 Sugawara, Pete, 223 Sunnyside Nursery, 146 Sunset magazine, 133-136, 209 Sunset Nursery [ formerly Piedmont Nursery] , 228 Suto, Mr. [chrysanthemum grower who cared for Mr. Domoto during typhoid fever] , 78 Sutro [Adolph] estate, San Francisco, family, 7-8 Symmes, Mabel, 205 Talbot family, 38-39 Treasure Island, 1939 Fair, 59, 62 Tsurui, Joy, 115 Uneka, Its, nurseryman, Carpenteria, 176 University of Illinois, floriculture studies, 88ff-97 Valinga, Peter, 129 Walther, Eric, 204 Ward, Charles W. , 37-38 Webb, Alexandra, 246 Webb, Cristina, 179, 245-246 Webb, Marilyn Domoto [Mrs. Eugene], 178, 185, 245-249 Weinhard, professor, University of Illinois, 90 Welch, Andrew, 130 Wertheim, Ernest, 153, 206-207 Western Hills Nursery, Occidental, 207 White, Dick, 157 Williamson, Joe, 133 Wilson, Albert, 233-235 WPA, 121-123 Wright, Frank Lloyd, 60 Yamato Colony, Livingston, 172-173, 178, 212-213 Yock, Florence, 208 Yoshida, Heichi, 146-147 West Coast Nursery, Landscaping, 225, 234 May 1993 HORTICULTURE, BOTANY, AND LANDSCAPE DESIGN The following interviews related to landscape architecture, garden design, horticulture, and botany have been completed by the Regional Oral History Office. Through tape recorded autobiographical interviews with scholars and professionals in these fields, individuals working in a wide range of gardens and arboreta, and members of native plant conservation groups, we are documenting over a half -century of growth and change in wild and cultivated California and the West. The interviews, transcribed, indexed, and bound, may be ordered at cost for. deposit in research libraries. Individual Memoirs BANCROFT, Ruth (b. 1908), The Ruth Bancroft Garden in Walnut Creek. California: Creation in 1971. and Conservation. 1993. Interviews with the owner-designer of a four-acre dry garden in Walnut Creek, California, the Ruth Bancroft Garden, the first garden designated under The Garden Conservancy. BRACELIN, N. Floy, The Ynes Mexia Botanical Collections. 1982. An interview with N. Floy Bracelin on the Mexia botanical collection and on Mrs. Mexia' s Mexican and South American expeditions. Interview conducted by botanist Annetta Carter. CONSTANCE, Lincoln (b. 1909), Versatile Berkeley Botanist: Plant Taxonomy and University Governance. 1987. Dean and botanist discusses research in the biosystematics of umbelli ferae; recollections of colleagues and graduate students. DOMOTO, Toichi (b. 1902), A Japanese -American Life in California: Floriculture and Family. 1883-1992. 1993. Life story of eminent nurseryman, tree, shrub, and flower breeder, bonsai practitioner; family, education, experience of racial discrimination; membership in California nursery and horticultural groups. GREGG, John W. (1880-1969), Landscape Architect. 1965. First head of the Department of Landscape Architecture at UC Berkeley, professor from 1913- 1946, talks about the relationship of landscape design to architecture in the early days of the profession. ISENBERG, Gerda (b. 1901), California Native Plants Nurseywoman. Civil Rights Activist, and Humanitarian. 1991. History, through interviews with owner -founder, of Yerba Buena Nursery, a California native plant and exotic fern nursery in Woodside, California. LAWYER, Adele (b. 1918) and Lewis (b. 1907), Lawyers. Inc: Partners in Plant Pathology. Horticulture, and Marriage. 1990. Husband and wife plant pathologists discuss research work for Del Monte Corp.; developments in fruit and vegetable varieties; breeding Pacific Coast native iris. MCCASKILL, June (b. 1930), Herbarium Scientist. University of California. Davis . 1989. Discussion of curatorial functions, and public service role, of the UC Davis Herbarium, 1935-1988. PEARCE, F. Owen (b. 1897), California Garden Societies and Horticultural Publications. 1947-1990. 1990. Founding of Strybing Arboretum Society; editing California Horticultural Journal: membership in garden organizations, and memoirs of plantsmen. Interviews conducted by Adele and Lewis Lawyer. RODERICK, Wayne (b. 1920), California Native Plantsman: UC Botanical Garden. Tilden Botanic Garden. 1991. Family history and career of lifelong gardener, nurseryman; head of California section, UC Berkeley Botanical Garden, 1960-1976; head, East Bay Regional Parks Botanic Garden, 1976-1983. ROTH, Lurline Matson (1890-1985), Matson and Roth Family History: A Love of Ships . Horses . and Gardens . 1982. History through interviews of landmark estate, "Filoli," house and gardens in Woodside California; Matson family history. Includes interview with horticulturist Toichi Domoto. SCOTT, Geraldine Knight (1904-1989), A Woman in Landscape Architecture in California. 1926-1989. 1990. Distinguished practitioner's personal statement of her education and career choices; private practice for over thirty years, clients and convictions; lecturing in UC Berkeley's Department of Landscape Architecture. WIESLANDER, A. E. (b. 1890), California Forester: Mapper of Wildland Vegetation and Soils. 1985. Forestry management, education; soil and vegetation studies, mapping; native plants, and manzanita specimen plantings; history of East Bay Regional Parks Botanic Garden. Multi- interview Volumes BLAKE ESTATE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. 1988. Interviews with family members, architects and landscape architects, gardeners, staff, and two presidents of the University of California to document the history of Blake House, since 1967 the University's presidential residence, and the Blake Garden, a ten- acre horticultural mecca utilized as a teaching facility. Interviews with Mai Arbegast, Igor Blake, Ron and Myra Brocchini, Toichi Domoto, Elliot and Elizabeth Evans, Anthony Hail, Linda Haymaker, Charles Hitch, Florence Holmes, Clark and Catherine Kerr, Janice Kittredge, Geraldine Knight Scott, Louis Stein, George and Helena Thacher, Walter Vodden, and Norma Wilier. CALIFORNIA WOMEN IN BOTANY. 1987. Interviews with botanist Annetta Carter on the UC Berkeley Herbarium, 1930s to 1980s; Mary DeDecker, botanist and conservationist, on the desert flora of the Owens Valley region; Elizabeth McClintock, botanist, on the California Academy of Sciences Herbarium, collecting and interpretation, and conservation of rare native species of the San Francisco Bay Area. THOMAS D. CHURCH, LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT. Two volumes, 1978. A study of Thomas Dolliver Church (1902-1978), landscape architect, through interviews with colleagues in architecture and landscape architecture, staff, clients and friends, landscape contractors and nurserymen, and with Elizabeth Roberts Church. Volume I: Interviews with Theodore Bernard!, Lucy Butler, June Meehan Campbell, Louis DeMonte, Walter Doty, Donn Emmons, Floyd Gerow, Harriet Henderson, Joseph Howland, Ruth Jaffe, Burton Litton, Germane Milono, Miriam Pierce, George Rockrise, Robert Royston, Geraldine Knight Scott, Roger Sturtevant, Francis Violich, and Harold Watkin. Volume II: Interviews with Maggie Baylis, Elizabeth Roberts Church, Robert Glasner, Grace Hall, Lawrence Halprin, Proctor Mellquist, Everitt Miller, Harry Sanders, Lou Schenone, Jack Stafford, Goodwin Steinberg, and Jack Wagstaff . LESTER ROWNTREE, CALIFORNIA NATIVE PLANT WOMAN. 1979. Memoir about Lester Rowntree (1878-1979), horticulturist, naturalist, and seed collector. Interviews with horticulturists, botanists, and family members: Margaret Campbell, Skee Hamann, Heidi Rowntree Melas, Robert Ornduff, James Roof, Cedric Rowntree, Harriette Rowntree, Lester Rowntree, Lester Bradford Rowntree, Nancy Rowntree, Rowan Rowntree, and Jo Stallard. Suzanne Bassett Riess Grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. Graduated from Goucher College, B.A. in English, 1957. Post-graduate work, University of London and the University of California, Berkeley, in English and history of art. Feature writing and assistant woman's page editor, Globe -Times . Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Volunteer work on starting a new Berkeley newspaper. Natural science decent at the Oakland Museum. Free-lance Photographer. Editor in the Regional Oral History Office since 1960, interviewing in the fields of art, environmental design, social and cultural history, horticulture, journalism, photography, Berkeley and University history. 1 18445 . C. BERKELEY LIBRARIES