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ANNALS
TBE COWGEESS 01 TEE UNITED STATES.
FOCHTB COnOREBS-FIRBT SESSION.
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DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS
CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES;
AN APPENDIX,
I5W0RTANT STATE PAPERS AND PUBLIC DOCUMENTS,
THE LAWS OP A PUBLIC NATURE;
WITH A COPIOUS IND£X.
FOURTH CONGRESS— FIRST SESSION.
1 THE PEBIOD PROM DECEMBER 7, I7SA, TO J
INCLUSIVE.
UOMrilJID PROM AUTHENTIC MATERIAIJ).
WASHINGTON:
PHIKTBD AKD PdBI.IMIK.D BV OALRS AND .■lt:AT(IK
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PROCEEDINGS
THK SENATE OFTHE UNITED STATES*
AT THE FIRST SB8BI0N OF THE FOUIITH CONOREBe,'HELD IN THE CITY OF
PHILADELPHIA, DECEMBER 7, 1796.
Monday, December 7, 1795.
The following Snwton appealed, sod took their
seata:
JloBN Larodoh and Sahdel Livbrmore, frooi
New Hampabire ;
Caleb &rRONfl and Gboroe Cabot, from Mas-
sachusetts ;
Theodore Fosteh. from Rhode Island ;
Oliver Ellbwohth and Johathan Trombdll,
fyoai Connecticut;
MoaEa Robinson, from Vermont ;
RuFUB KiMQ, from New York;
James Roas and William BiMCHAH.from Penn-
sylvania;
Henry Latimer, from Delaware;
Henry Tazewell and STEPHENa T. Mason,
from Virginia;
ALBXAHDBn Mabtin and Timothy Blood-
worth, from North Carolina;
PiBBCE Bdtlbb and JACob Read, from South
Carolina.
The Vice Prbsidemt being abseni, the Senate
proceeded to the election of aPaBBinENT pro tem-
pore, as the Constitution provides, and Henry
Tazewell was duly elected.
Ordered, Tfaat the Secrelarf wait on the Pre-
BiDENT OF THE United Stateb. and acouaiot him
that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and that,
to the absence of the Vice President, they have
elected Hbnry Tazewell President pro tempore.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House
of Representatives that a quorum of the Senate is
awemoled, and ready to proceed to buiiness; and
that, ia the absence of the Vies President, they
have elected Hbnry Tazbwbll President pro
Ordered, That Mews. Read and Cabot be a
joioi committee on the part of the Senate, toge-
ther with inch committee as the House of Repre-
waiatirei may appoint on their part, to wail on
tbe President OP the United States, and notifv
binthat aquorumof the two Houses is assembled,
aad really to receive any cotnmunicattons that be
Diay be pleased to make to them.
A mesiacc from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that a quorum of the House
4th Con.— 2
is assembled ; that they hare elected Jonathan
Dayton their Speaker; and that they have con-
curred in the appointment of a joint committee to
wait on the Fhebident op the United Stateb,
and acquaint him that the two Houses of CoDgren
are assembled, and are ready to receive any com-
munications tnat he may be pleased to lay before
Mr. Read, from the joint committee appointed
for that purpose, reported that they had waited on
the President or the United States and had
notified him that a quorum of the two Houses of
Congress were assembled ; and the President of
the United States acquainted the commiitee
that he would meet the two Houses in the Repie-
Chamber at 13 o'clock ti
TttEBDAT, December 8.
Hdmphrev Mabbbavi., from the Stale of Ken-
tucky, attended.
A message from the House of Representatires
informed the Senate that the House are now ready
to meet the Senate in the Chamber of that House,
to receive such communications as the Pbesidbnt
OF THE United Stateb shall be pleased to make
to them.
Whereupon, the Senate repaired to the Cham-
ber of the House of Representatives for the pur-
pose above e^ressed.
The Senate then returned to their own Cham-
ber, and a copy of the Speech of the Przsident
OP the United States to both Houses of Con-
gress was read, as follows:
FtUmn-dHzau of the Senate, and
of the Hoate of R^imenlalivtt ;
I trait I do Dot deceiTs mjielf. while I indulge the
perMuiou that I hkve never mel jou at iny poiiod,
when, mare than st tha prueDt, the situktion of our
public ai^n his afforded jiul cauae for mutual con-
gratulation, and for invitiufc you to join with me in pro-
found gratitude to the Author of all Good for the nume-
raiu and extnordinary blcannga vie enjoy.
The temiinalioa of the long, expensive, and ^diatreaa-
ing war ia which we have been engaged with certain
IniUans Notthweal of the Ohio, ia placed in the option
of the United Statea, by a Trea^ which the CoDimander
281^41
abjGoOgIc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Senate.]
Speech of the Prendent.
fDECEHBEH, 17W.
of OUT Arnij haa concluded, proyiooiuUy, with the
hostile tribea in Ui*t region.
Id the ■djuatment of the teims, the Mtiabction of tbi
Indiuu nu deemed an object woTtb; no \tm of the
policy than of the liberality of the United States, ta the
tMceswiy banji of durable tnnqnilitj. The object, it ii
beUered, hu been faHj attained. The aiticiea igieed
• upon will immadiatel; be laid before the Senate, for
their connderatioQ.
The Cnek and Cherokee Indiani, who slone, of the
SoDthern tribes, had annoyed our fhintien, have lately
confirmed their pre-eiiiting Treatiee with tu, and were
giTJng eridence of a aincere dispoBtlon to cany them
into efiect, by the aumnder of the priaonen and pro.
perV they had taken ; but we havq lo lament that the
bii protpect in thia quarter has been once more clouded
by wanton monlera, nhich aome dtizena of Geoigia are
repreaented to hsTe recently perpetrated on hnnting
putiea of the CreeVa, which have again aubjectod that
frontlet lo disquietude and danger ; which will be pro-
dnctiTe of further eipanae, and may occaaion mi "
ajon of blood. Messuree aie purauing to ptf
mitigate the luual consequences of such outrages, and
with the hope of their succeeding, at least, lo
entl hoatilily.
A Letter from the Emperor of Morocco
ne hiiTecognition of our Treaty made with bis &ther
the bte Emperor, and, consequently, the continuance
of peace with that Power. With peculiar aatiafBcllon
I add, that intbrmatioD has been received from an agent
deputed on our part to Algiers, importing that the terms
of the Treaty with die Dey and Regency of that country
had been adjusted in such a manner as to aulhorite the
expectation of a speedy peace, and the restoration of
our nnfbrtunate fellow-citiiena from a grieTous captj-
The Uteal adTtma from our Edtc^ at the Conn of
Madrid give, moreover, tiie pleaaing infimnation that he
had received aaannnoaa of a speedy and aatisfactoty
eoneluaion of hia negotiation. Wlulo the event, de-
pending upon Dnadjuated partieulara, cannot be regarded
as ascertained, it ia agreeable lo cberiah the expectation
of an issue which, aecuring, amicably, veiy eaaential
intereats of the United Statea, will, at the same lime,
lay the foundation of laiting harmony with a Power
whose friendahip we have unifbnnly and ainoerely de-
sired tocoltivata.
Though not before officially duclosed to the Houae
of Repreaenlatiies, you, gentlemen, are all apprised that
■ Trea^ of Ami^, Commerce, and Navigation, has
been negotiated with Great Britain ; and that the Se-
nate have advised and eooseitled to its ratification, upon
a conditian which excepts part of one article. Agree-
ably thereto, and to the best judgment I was able lo form
ofttie public intereat, siler fiill and mature deliberation,
I have added my sanction. The result, on the part of
Hii Britannic Majesty, is unknown. When received,
the subject will, without delay, be placed before Con-
greM.
This hlteresting nommary of our aHiiire, with regaid
to the foreign Powers between whom and the United
Statea controvemcii have subsisted, and with regard
also to Ihoec of our Indian neighbors, with whom we
have been in a stale of enmity or miannderstanding,
o|Mna a wide field for consoling and gratifying reflec-
tions. Jf, by prudence and moderation on evoiy aide,
the cilingDishment of all tbe causea ofeitemal discord
which have herelofoM menaced our tranquility, on terms
compatible with onr national rights and honor, shall be
the happy result, how firm and how precioas ■ founda-
tion will have been laid for acceienting, maturing, and
establishing, the pioaperity of onr country !
Contemplating the internal situation, aa well aa the
external relations, of the United States, we diacovei
equal cause for contentment and sadafiurtion. While
many of the nations of Europe, with their American
dependencies, have been involved in a contest unumally
bloody, exhausting, and calamitous ; in whidi tbe evib
of foreign war have been aggravated by domestic con-
vulaiona and inaurrection ; in which many of the arts
moat uaafiil to aociety have been expoaed hi discourage-
ment and decay ; in which scard^ of aubaiatence hia
embittered other aufTerings ; while even the anticipa-
tions of a return of the bleaainga of peace and repass
are alloyed by the aenae of heavy and accumuhdiDg
burdena which presa upon all tbe departments of indua-
tiy, and threaten to clog the liiture springs of Oovem-
ment ; our &vorad country, happy in a striking eontrvat,
has enjoyed general tranquility — a tranquility the more
aatislaetoiy. because maintained at the expense of do
du^. Faithful to ourselves, we have violated no obli-
gation to others. Onr agricoltuie, commerce, and manu-
bcturea, proaper bey and former ex ample; the molealaliona
of Dor trade (la prevent a continuance of whidi, how-
ever, very pointed remonstrances have been made) being
overbalanced by the aggregate benefita which it deriv£
from a neutral position. Our population advances wid)
a celerity which, exceeding the most sanguine calcula-
tionSiproportionally augments our strength and reaourcea,
and guarantees our future security. Evec^ part of tbe
Union displays indications of rapid and vanous improve-
ment 1 and with burdens so light as scarcely to be per-
ceived ; with resourccH fully adequate to our present
eiigencies ; with Governments tbanded on the genuine
of rational liberty ; and with mild and whole-
■ — is it loo mudi to say, that oor eonntiy
exhibits a spectacle of national IwppineBs never sur-
flaed, if ever before equalled !
Plae«d in a aituation every way so auapidous, motivca
of commanding force impel ua, with aincere acknow-
ledgment to Heaven, and pure love lo our country ,
' '■ ifiWls to preserve, prolong, and impiovs,
advantages. To co-operate with you in
this desirable work, is a fervent and favorite wish of my
'. ia a valuable ingredient in the general eatimale of
wetfiire, that the part of our country which was
lately the scene of disorder and insurrection, now enjoys
tbe bleaainga of qliict and order. The misled have
abandoned their errors, and pay the respect to our Con-
and taws which is due from good dtiiens to
the public autiiorities of the sodety. These drcum-
■tances have induced me to pardon, ^nerally, the
oflenden here referred to, and lo extend forgiveneea to
those who had been adjudged to capital punishment.
For, though I shall always think it a sacred duty to
exercise irith firmness and energy the Constitutional
powers with which I am vested, yet it appears to me no
less consistent with the public good than it is with my
personal feelings.to mingle, in the operations of Govern-
ment, every degree of moderation and tenderness whidi
the national justice, dignity, and safety, may permit.
Gentlemen .■
Among the objects which will claim your attention
in the coune of the session, a review of onr Military
Bstsblishmentianot the least important, tlis called fin'
by the evenla which have changed, and may be expected
still fiirthar to chsngn.tbs tdativs situation of oor fron-
VM>\
abjGoOgIc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Dbcembbb, I79S.]
apeeeh of tht Prtrndent.
lim. In lliia Teriaw, joa will doubtlan allow due weight
ts Itae cmuidentioiu thit tlie qa—tigm between u* and
ontain foreign Powas ubdM TetflnallTadjiuteil; that
ihe war in Europe ia not yet teiminated ; and that ooi
Waatsro poeta, when recovered, will demand proriaion
ka gairiBning and •acoring' them. A atatenient of our
neaent milituy fbroe will be laid befbte jou by the
DepartniBnt of War.
Willi the reviaw of onr Anny Eatabtialunent ia natu-
rally eoDflectcd that of the Militia. It will merit inquiry,
what imperfeetiotu in the existing plan further experi-
ence may have unfolded. The subject is of h> much
'n luy SBlimalion, as to excite a mnstajit toli-
dtude that the coiuideration of it may be renewed until
die greateet Bttainable perfection ahall be acromplished.
Time ia wemiing away aome advantages for forwarding
the object, while none better deserrea the peraeveiing
■itention of Ihe public eoundla.
While we indulge the aatii&ction which Ihe actual
eondilion of our Weatem bordera ao well authoriiea, '
ii nerp—aiy that we should not loee nght of an important
truth, whicb continually recei<reg new confirmations,
namely : that Uie proviaions heretofore made with a riew
to the protection of the Indians from the Tiolences of the
lawleaa part of our frontier inhabilsnta are insnfficient.
It ti deraoDstrated that these Tioleneea can now be per-
petrated with impunity ; and it can need no argument
■o pitiTe, that, nnleaa the mardeting of Indiana can be
lestrained by brin^g Ihe murderera to condign pun-
iihmeDt, all Ihe exertions of the Goremment to prevent
deatructiTe rataliattons by Ihe Indiana will prove (niitleaa,
and all oni preaent agreeable proapecta illusory. The
Irequent destruction of innocent women and children,
who are diieny the netima oTrclali.-itian.mui'l continue
to afaock humanity, and an enarmoua eipenae to drain
the Treaaury of the Union-
To enforce upon the Indiana the abaervance of juatii
it is indiapenaable that there ^all be competent means
of rendering justice to them. If thew means can '
devised by the wiadom of Oon<tress, and especially
there can be added an adequate proviaion for supplying
the neceaaitiea of the Indians, on rmmnable termi —
a measure, the mention of which I the more readily
repeat, as in all the conferences with them they urgi "
with aolidtade — I abould not hesitate to entertaii
Kiong hope of rendering onr tnuiqnifity permanenL I
add, with i^easure, that the probabiiity even of their
enihiation ia not diminished by the oxperiments whidi
b»* been thus tu made under the auspices of Qovem-
"leoL Tlie accomplishment of this worit, if practicable,
will rriteet unrfecaying lustre on our nation^ character,
sad adrainiater the most gralefiJ consolations that vir-
tuous minda can know.
(hntkmtn of the Hoiue of Rtpraaitatiees .-
The state of our revenue, with the auma which have
been borrowed and reimbuiaed pursuant to different ads
tf Congreas, will be submitted from the proper Depait-
aeat, together with an estimate of the appropriations
neenaai; to be made for the service of the eniuing
Tnr.
Whether measure* may not be advisable to re-cntbrce
'^ imnision for the redemption of the Public Debt,
*>11 naturally engage your riamination. CongreaahaTe
dernenitratod their sense to be, and it were superfluous
tarrpeat nine, that whatsoever will tend to accelerate
the hoDoralile eitinction of our Public Debt, acconjs as
■BOrJi with the true interest of our eonnby aa with the
Gentlemen of lie Senate, and
of the Hottee of Rq>reientathtt -
The statements which will be laid before jou relative
to the Mint will show the aituation of that institution,
and the necessity of some further Legislative provisions
for carrying the busineaa of it more completely into
eSect, and for checking abuses which appear to be aris-
g in particular quarters.
The progress of providing materials for the frigates,
id in building them ; the stats of the Eirtificatioris i^
ir harbors ; Ihe measures which have been pursued for
obtaining proper sites for arsenals, and for replenishing
nsgazinea with military stores ; and the steps whicli
been taken towards the execution of the law far
opening a trade with the Indiana — will likevrise be pre-
sented (br the information of Congress.
Temperete discusaiDn of the important subjects which
may ariae in the coume of the sesaion, and muliisl
fortiearance where there is a diflerence of opinion, ate
too obvious and necessary for the peace, happiness, and
il&re, of onr country, to i '
Ordered, That Messra. Kino, Ellbwohtb, And
Cabot, be a Committee to report the draft of an
Address to the President of the United States,
in answer to his Speech this day to both Homes
of Congress.
Wednesday, December 9.
The Vice Phebidbnt of the United States at-
teadt^d.
The following motion was made by Mr. Mab-
" Retohed, That, in conformity to a resolution of the
Senate of the United Stales, passed the SOth day of
Febniaiy, 1794, the gallery of the Benata Chamber be
permitted to be opened every morning, subject lo the
restrictions therein mentianeil,R suitable gallery having
been erected and provided in the Senate Chunber, in
the late raecas of Congreas, for that purpose."
And, the motion being amended, it was
Reiolved, Tbal, in coDforniity lo a resolution of
[be Senate of cbe United States, passed the 20lh
day of February, 1794, the gallery of the Senate
Chamber be peimiited to be opened every moio-
ing, subject to the restrictions lu said resolulioa
mentioned.
that two Cbapl a ins, of different denominations, be
appointed 10 Consrcss for the present session, one
by each House, Who shall interchan^ weekly ; in
which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
Whereupon, the Senate proceeded lo consider
the said resolution ; and
Retdved. That they do concur therein, and that
the right Rereteud Bishop WHrre be ihc Chaplain
on Ihe pari of the Senate.
BesoiveJ, That each Senator be supplied during
the present session with copies of three such news-
papers, priDied in any oi the Stales, as he may
choose, provided that the same are mrntahed at
the rate of the usual annual charge for such pa-
pera.
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Bin ATI.]
Addrest to the PretiderU.
Tbursdav, December ID.
JoHM Bbown, from the State of Kentucky, and
Fhbdbriok FRELiNOBnYSBN, from the State of
New Jersey, severally attended.
Mi. Kiko, from itie committee appointed for
that purpose, reported the draft of an Addr"
to the PREaioBKT op the United States, in
swer to his Speech to both Houses of CoDgresi, at
the opening of the session, which was read, and
oideied to lie for coDsideration until to-morrow.
Friday, December 11.
Elijah Paine, from' the State of Vermont, at-
tended.
ADDRESS TO THE PRESmBNT.
The Senate took into consideration the report
made by the Committee, of an Address to ll
Prrbident or trb Ukitbd States, in answer
nceiTe cnir carefbl attention, lad, wUb a trne ical for
the public wvl&M, we shall ohovflilljoo-opante ir
17 meamra that duU apfwu to tta bert a
his Speech to both Houses of Cftairess, at the
opening of the session, which is as follows :
81B ; It is with peculiAjr satis&ction that we a
foimed by joor Speeeb to tlu two Housea of Uongim,
that the long and sxpensive war in which we have been
■ngaged wi& the Indiana Northwest of the Ohio
Htuation to be finally terminated; and, though we view
with concern the danger of an JnterruptiDa of the peace
■o lecentl; conBnoed with the Creeks, we indulge the
iMpe, that the measurea that you havo adopted to pre-
Tent the aame, if followed by thoae Litgialative proiia-
iona that juatiee and humani^ equally demand, will
■occeed in laying the foundation of a laating peace with
the Indian thbea on the Southern u well ai an the
Weatem frontier*.
The confirmstion of our Treaty with Man>ci», and the
adjustment of a Treaty of Peace with Algiers, in conae-
quence of which our capdve fcllow-citizena absll be de-
livered from slaveiy, are events that will prove no less
interesting to the public humanity, than they will be
important in eitendlngand accuring the navigation and
commerce of our country.
As a just andeqnitable cunclusion of our depending
negotiationa with Spain will essentiallj advance the
interest of both nationa, and thereby cheriab and con-
Snn the good understanding and fnendahip which we
have at all times desired to maintain, it will aflord oa
real pleasuie to receive an eariy confirmatiad ofonrex-
pectations on thia aubject.
The intereating prospect of onr al&ira, with regard to
the fiireign Powers betwerai whom and the United
States cantroveraiea have sobaiited, is not mors aatistac-
tory, than the review of our internal situation : if ihim
the former we derive an eipectation of the exlinguiah-
ment of all the causes of external diacord, that have
heretofore endangered our tranquility, and on terms
consistent with our national honor and aafel)', in the
letter we diacover those numerous end widc-aprcad to-
kens of prosperity which, in so peculiar a manner, diatin-
gui^ our happy country.
Circumstaneea thoa every way auapidous demand
our gratitude, and sincere Bcknowledements to Almigh-
,ty C&d, Imd require that we should unite our efibrta in
imitation of your enlightened, iimi, and persevering ex-
ample, to EStafaliah and preserve the peace, Ireedom,
and prosperity, of our country.
The objects which you have recommended to the no-
lice of the Legislature will, in the course of the session.
JOHN ADAMS,
Ftes FrttUknt of Oe Vnittd Stata.
and Preridrnt of the Senate.
The Address was taken up by paragraphs.
The fourth and fifth paragraphs were tooted to
be struck out by Mr. Maboh.
Mr. Mason oDserredj that he had hoped nothing
contained in the Address reported as an answer
to the Prebidekt's Speech, would have been such
as to foDce the Senate to precipitate decisions.
The two clauses be objeiitea 10 disappointed him
in that hope. They were calculated to bring
again into view the important subject which oc-
cupied the Senate during their June session.
This he conceived could answer no good purpose ;
be expected to recede from the opinions they
then held, and they could not therefore join in
the indirect self-«pprobatioa which the majority
appeared to wish for, and which was moat cer-
tainly involred in the two clauses which he should
hope would be strack out. If his. motion were
a^eed to, the remainder of the Address would, in
his opinion, stand nn exceptionable. He did not
see, for his part, that our situation was every way
auspicious. Notwithstanding the Treaty, our trade
is grievously molested.
Sir. KiNQ observed, that the principal features
observable in the answer reported to the Prebi-
DENT'a Address, were to keep up tbal harmony
of intercourse Which ought to subsist between the
Legislature and the FRESinENT, and to express
confidence in the undiminished fifmness and love
of country which always characterize our chief
Executive Magistrate. He objected to striking
out especially the first clause, because founded on
uodeoLabJe truth. It only declares that our pros-
pects, a.s to our external relations, are not more
" factory than a review of our internal situation
Id prove. Was not this representation true,
he asked j could it be controverted 1 This clause,
nded. contained nothing reasonably ob-
jectionable ; it did not say as much as the second,
to which only most of the objections of the mem-
ber up before him applied, an answer to which
he should defer, expecting that a question would
be put on each in order.
The clause he said appeared to him drawn up
such terms as could not offend the nicest feeU
ings of the minority oil the important decision in
June ; it wasparticularly circumspect and cautious.
If liable to objection It was in not going as far as
tlif (ruth would warrant.
Some conversation took place as to the mode
requiredby order of pulling the question; whether
it should be put on each clause separately, or
whether upon striking out both at once.
The Chair requested that the motion should be
reduced to writing. Mr. Mason accordingly t<;-
duced it to writing, and it went to striking out
both clauses at once.
Mr. Mason agreed most cordiall y that the siiua-
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Decembbr, 1795.]
Addrtm to the PreaiderU.
[Ssy&TE.
tioD of OUT external lelatioiis were not more a
cause of joy ihaa oqt situBlioo at home. But the
obvioDs meaning of the clause, he conceited,' was
an indirect approTsl of our situation relative to
external concenis; and to this he could not give
bis assent, as he did not consider their aspect as
appointed to draft an answer, be hoped they would
hare used such general terms as to have secured
an unr.nimous vote. He was willing tu give the
Chief Magistrate such an answer as respect to his
station entitled him to, but not sucb a one as
would do Tiolenee to his tegaid for the Constitu-
tion and his duty to his constituents. He could
not approve of long and detailed answers, how-
be from whom it came. He had hoped, from tbi
peculiar situation of the country, and of the Sen-
ate, that nothing would have been brought for-
ward in the answer, on the subject wbicb agitated
the June Executive session, calculated to wound
the feelings of members. He had been disap-
pointed ; it was evident that some members of the
Senate could not give their voice in favor of the
Address in its present shape, without involving
themselves in the most palpable inconsistency.
He had long since, tor his own part, declared
himself against every article of the Treaty, be-
cause in no instance is it bottomed on reciprocity,
the only honorable basis. Afier this declaration,
how could he, or those who coincided in opinion
with him, agree to the present Address without
involving themselves in the most palpable inci
sistency 1
He did not jgiee with the gentleman of Ni
York in his Apoiition of the meaning of the
clauses objectea to. They certainly declare our
situation as to our external relations to be favor-
able. Out situation, as far as it respects Qreat
Britain, he contended, was not in the least ame-
liorated. Their depredations on our commerce
have not been less frequent of late than at any pe-
riod EioCB the beginning of her war with France.
Her orders for the seizure of all our vessels laden
with provisions cannot surely be a subject for
eoDgratalarion. When it became authenticated
that our trade was relieved from these embarrass-
ments, then he was confident the members of the
Senate, 'who were with him in sentiment, would
readily express their satisfaction at the auspicious
prospect opened for this country to the enjoy-
ments of tranquility and happiness. But, until
that happy time should arrive, be could not ^ive
his voice to deceive the inhabitants of the United
Stales, remote from the sources of information, to
hoodwink them by sanctioning with his vote a
tiateneDt unwarranted by truth, and presenting
to them a picture of oar public happiness not sanc-
ticDcd by fact.
The Mntence objected to, notwithstandiu the
UlJanation of the gentleman from New York,
appeared to him so worded as to lead the citizens
■t large 10 believe that the spoliations on out com-
merce wen' drawing to a nrttuate close. This
was noL he ponceived, warranted by the existing
state of ihiues. Indeed, he protested, he knew
no more ol the actual situation of the Treaty ne-
gotiation than the remotest farmer in the Union ;
could he then declare, he asked, that it was draw-
ing to a happy close? Indeed, from the latest in-
formation received, far from our situation having
been ameliorated by the negotiations of our Kxe-
'trade as much in jeopardy
As to the internal prosperity^ he owned there
was some cause i'or congratulation ; but even in
this bis conviction could not carry him as far as
the clauses in the Address seemed to go. In a
pecuniary point of view, the coimtry had made a
visible progress i but he saw in it no basis of per-
manent prosperity. There were no circumstances
attendant on it that gave a fair hope that the pros-
perity would be peroianenl. The chief cause of
our temporary pecuniary prosperity is the war in
Europe, which occasions the high prices out pro-
duce at present commands; when that is termi-
nated, those advantageous prices will of course
fidl.
Mr. B. now came to speak of the second ob-
jeciional clause. He regretted whenever a ques-
tion was brought forward that involved person-
ality in the most indirect manner. He wished
always to speak to subjects unconnected with
men;. but the wording of the clause was unfortu-
nately such as to render allusion to official charac-
ter unavoidable. He objected princip^y to the
epithet _^rm. introduced into the latter clause, as
applied to tne Supreme Executive. Why j!rm-
net»? he asked. To what ? or to whom ? Is it
the manly demand of restitution made of Great
Britain for her accumulated injuries that called
forth the praise ? for his own part he could dis-
cern no firmness ther^. Is it ior the urukaaUed
and energetic countenance of the cause of France,
in her struggle for freeing herself from despotic
shackles? F^ saw no finameaa displayed on that
occasion. Where then is it to be found ? Was
it in the opposition to the minority of the Senate
and the eenerai voice of the people against the
Treaty that that jJrmnfiM was displayed? If it
never, said Mr. B., leave the walls of the Senate
with n^ approbation.
He could not appove, he said, that firvineu
that prompted the Executive to resist the unequi-
vocal voice of his fellow-citizena from New
Hampshire to Georgia. He would have applaud-
ed the firmness of the PaHBinBiiT, if, in compli-
ance with the nneqnivocal wish of the people, he
had resisted the voice of the majority on the
Treaty, and refused his signatnre to it.
This was, he understood, ^aod it should be men-
tioned in honor of the PREainBiiT,) his first inten-
tion ; why he changed it, time, he said, tntut dia-
He concloded by proposin|[ an amendment to
be substituted in lieu of tlie objectionable claiues,
should they be struck out.
Mr. RiAD said, he was not ifi the habit of giv
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
8.».T,.]
Addna* to the Presidmi.
[DEcBM«am, 1796.
ing a silent vole, and, as many of his conslitueats
were adverse to the insirumeat to which he had
given his assent, he thought this a fit opportunity
to sap something on the subject.
Oeatlemen oo the other side had spoken of
their feeliugH; did they suppose, he asVed, [hat
those who were in the majority bad not feeling: 1
Also, gentleoieii declared ihey would not recede
from their former determinations; did they ex-
pect that the majority would recede?
He had, he said, taken the question of the Treaty
in alt its aspect!,, and considered il maturely, and
though he lamented that he differed in opinion on
that subject with his colleague, and a portion of
the [wople of his State, he nevertheless remained
convinced that the ratification of it was advisable:
Il rescued the country from war and its desolating
borrors.
After reading that part of thepBESiDENT'H Speech
to which the clauses objected to were an echo, he
asked, whether any one could say, under the con-
Tiction that the measarea of Government bad
prevented a war, that our view of foreign rela-
tions was not consolatory? On all hands, he ob-
served, the idea of a war was deprecated; both
sidesof the House wished to avoid it; then is it not
a consolatoTy reflection to all that its horrors have
been averted? Is thereanian who does not believe
tiiat, had the Treaty not been ratified, we should
bave had war ? If the country had been plunged
intd a war, would it be as nourishing as it is?
The trifling vexations our commerce has sus-
tained are not to compare to the evils of hostili-
ty. What good end could have been answered
by a war? The Address, iti the part under dis-
cnssiou, says no more than that we rejoice at the
prospect that the blensings of peace will be pre-
served ; and does not Ibis expectation exist?
Great Britain, in the plenitude of her power,
had availed herself of the right she had. under the
Law of Nations, of seizing enemy's goods in neu-
tral vessels ; but has allowed compeDsetion to
some Americana, and a system ot mild measures
OD oar part is the best security for fiulher.
He adverted to that part of Mr. BirrLER'a ob-
servations which related to the probable fall of
provisions at the peace. We ought ool to be
grieved if Butope was rid of the calamities of
war at that price. But he contended that, from
the measures of the Administration, permanent
advaniwes were secured to this country. The
value olour soil has beett enhanced ; wealth has
poured in from various parts of the globe, and
many permanent advantages secured.
There had been one assertion made, which, by
repetition, had by some almost been taken for
granted, but which required proof to induce him
to believe it, and that was, that a majority of the
citizens of the United States are opposed to the
Treaty. In the part of the country he came from,
he owned there might be a majority of that opin-
ion, but he believed the contrary of the United
States at large { he expressed a conviction that,
when his constituents came to consider the mea-
sure maturely, they would change their opinions,
«nd, indeed, he miderttood that the false impres- ,
sions by which they were at first actutiied, were al-
ready wearing off.
But the Senate and President are the Constitu-
tional Treaty-making powers. If misiakeninlheir
decisioiis, they cannot be accused of having been
misled by sudden and iromatured impressions. He
should conceive himself unfit to fill a chair in the
Senate, if he suffered himself to be carried away
by such impressions. The people could not, in
their town meetings, deprived ol proper informa-
tion, possibly form an opinion that deserved weight,
and It was the duty of the Executive not to be
shaken in their determination by tumultuous pro-
ceedings from withouL Upon this gtouna he
much approved the PaBBinENT's conduct, and
thought It entitled to the epithet, firm.
In local questions, affecting none but the inter-
ests of his constituents^ he should attend to their
voice, but on great national points, he did not con-
sider himseil us a Representative from South Ca-
rolina, but as a Senator for the Union. In ques-
tions of this last kind, even if the wishes of his
constituents were unequivocally made known to
him, he should not conceive himself bound to sa-
crifice his opinions to theirs. He viewed the
Phebideht as standing in this situation;and though
he might bear the opinions of the people from ev-
ery part of the United States, he snould not sacri-
fice to them his own conviction; in this line of
conduct he has shown his firmness, and deserves
to be complimented for it by the Senate.
The Address reported, he said, contained no-
thing that could wound the feelings of any meia-
ber. The Senate would not, in his opinion, act
irrproperly if they expressed opinions coincident
with their act in the June session. The feelings of
the majority should be as much c^snlted as tnose
of the minority. The minority ne not asked to
retract ; but there is a propriety in the Senate's
going as far in their Address as the Speech went,
though il should be styled a vote of self-approba-
tion. He hoped the clauses would not be struck
Mr. Ellhwohth was opposed to striking ouu
The clause records a fact, and if struck out the
Senate deny it. The Pre eioENT asserts it, in the
Address reported, the Senate assent, a motion ia
made to strike out, is il becauxe the truth of
it is doubted? It cannot be called an unimport-
ant fact, therefore its omission will not be imput-
ed to oversight. The latter part of the clause ex-
presses our gratitude to Almighty God. WiU
the Senate refuse to make an acknowledgment of
that kind? Do theynotadmitthatHeisthesource
of all Giood, and can they refuse to acknowledge
it? And if to, is it possible that, in admitting the
fact and expressing the sentiment, which so natu-
rally flows from it, the Senate should wound the
feelings of any friend to his country 1
The truth of the fact is as clear as that the sun
now shines; the sentiment is unexceptionable;
he,therefore,recommendedtohis friend the mover,
not to insist upon striking out merely, but that
he should vary the motion, and propixe a sub-
To bring the miiid to the point with precision,
.d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Decehbeb, 1795.]
Addreu to the Pretideta.
[Sei
it was necessary to attend to the wording of the
clause. He read it. As la the sigQi&ca.tioD ol
that part which relates to our foreign coDcerns.
he did not cooiideT it a& hypothetical, but a posi-
tiTe declantion of a cunTicUou that iheir situa-
tion is satisfsctoijr, and od that ground he wished
to meet the question.
The clause objected to ezpiesseG an expectation
that the causes of external disagreemeot which
bare unh^pily existed, will be peaceably done
away. He said he had that expectation ; many
hare it not. Those who have ii not will nega-
tire the clause ; t^ose who have it will rote in ils
farorj the result will be the sense of a majority ;
the Senate could not be expected, more than on
other occasions, to be unanimous; if the declara-
tions contained in chose clauses arc supported,
they will be considered as the sense of the majo-
rity of the Senate, others may dissent; but be-
cause unaoimity could not hv obtained it was no
reason why the majority should sire a virtual
negative to the declaration which tney conceived
founded on truth.
He examined in detail the situation of our
external relations, to show the foundation on
which he rested bis expectation of a satisfactory
arrangement of ttiem, and of our general pros-
perity in that respect. With Morocco, our trea-
ties are renewed. With Algiers, assuraoces ate
Siven by the Executive that a peace is not far
tstanl. With Spain, on the same authority, it ii
understood tbai our prospects are favorable in that
quarter. With the hilfaerto hostile Indians, a
peace is within reach; and the only quarter in
which doubt can arise is from Great BriUin. But
even with respect ^o that nation, his expectation
wxa, that our differences there would terminate
amicably ; anfhe believed this to be the expecta-
tion of the Senate, as a collective body.
Mr. E. then went into the examination of some
other parts of the clauses objected to, and vindi-
cated the propriety of the epithets, enlightened,
firm, persevering, and concluded by lamenting
that there existed a difference of opinion, but
hoped that this would not deter the majority from
*n expression of their sense.
Hr. Tazewell said, the discussion had taken a
tarn different from that which be expected when
he heard the motion. He understood the motion
at the time it was made, and still so understood
It, as not intending to question the propriety of
any thing which was contained in the Prebi-
DEirr'a communication to both Houses of Con-
fess. But from what had been said (by Mr.
Read, of South Carolina) that part of the answer
lo the pREBinENT's communication which had
K'ven rise to the motion, was intended to have a
rther operation than he originally believed. He
asked whathadgiven rise to thepraclice ofretum-
isgan answerofanykind to thePRESiDBNT'Bcom-
muaication to Congress in theformof an Address?
1'htre was nothing, he said, in the Constitution.
or in any of the fundament^ rules of the Federal
Ooremment, which required that ceremony from
cither branch of the Congress. The practice was
wt an imitMion of the ceremooie* used upop Uke
occasions in other countries, and was neither re-
quired by the Constitution, uor authorized by the
principles upon which our Government was erect-
ed. But having obtained, he did not intend now
to disturb it. To allow the utmost latitude to
the principle which had begotten the practice, it
could only tolerate the ceremony as a compliment
to the Chief Magistrate. It could not be permit-
ted to arrest all opinions previous to regular dis-
cussions, nor to operate as a means of pledging
members to the pursuit of a particular course,
which subsequent and more full inquiries might
show to be extremely improper. Every answer,
therefore, to the Pbebident's communicaticm
ought to be drawn in terms extremely general, nei-
ther seducinKtheFHESiDEHTintoa belief that this
House would pursue a general recommendation
into points not at first contemplated by them, nor
pledged themselves to the world that that state
of thines was just, which time bad not permitted
them thoroughly to examine. The clauses now
under consideration had, at least in one instance,
deviated from this principle. They declare to
the world, ''That the interesting prospect of our
affairs with regard totheforeignPowers, between
whom and the United States controversies hare
subsisted, is not more satisfactory than the review
of our internal situation." The communications
from the President have not uttered so bold a
sentiment, nor is there any thing in those com-
munications thai justifies the assertion of this
fact : Placing the Treaty with Great Britain out
of the question, which seems to have been the up-
permost consideration when this sentence was
penned, the seizure of our provision vessels since
the signature of that Treaty, aqd the unwarranta-
ble imprisonment of our seamen, are acts which
cloud our prosperity and happiness. The minds
of [he Americans must He brought to consider
these things as trivial incidents in our po-
litical affairs, before the sentence under consider-
ation can be approved. He said he must, there-
fore, vote for the motion to strike out the two
clauses of the answer, in order that some more fit
expressions might then be introduced to succeed
them. He hoped the answer might be couched
in terms just and delicate towards CaePnEeinENT,
without wounding the feelings of any Senator;
and he believed both might be done without any
difficulty af^er the two clauses were expunged.
After some further observations from Messrs.
MAaON, BitTLCB, and Bloodwohtr, in which the
latter expressed the opinion chat he did conceive
the terms of our peace with Great Britain con-
sistent with the dignity and honor of the United
States, the question was put, and decided for strik-
ing out — ayes 8, noes 14.
On a further attempt to amend one of the
clauses some conversation look place more re-
markable foringenaity than interesting for solidi-
ty, being chiefly a debate upon words. The Senate
divided on it~7 to 15.
On the question, of agreeing to the Address, il
was carried — 14 to 8, as follows:
YsAs.— Means. Bingham, Cabot, EUnvoith, FoMw,
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF C0NGBE8S.
SlNATG.]
FrelinBhnyBan, King, LatimeT, Lirarinara, MudwU,
Paine, Read, Row, Smnig, and TnimbulL
NiTi. — Means. Bloodwaith, Brown, Butler, Lang-
don, Martin, MaaciD, Robiiuan, and TazewelL
Ordered, That the Committee who prepared
the Address nut on the PBEBiDEirr op thb
United States, mud desire him to acquaint the
Senate at what time and place it will be moat
conreoient for him that it ahould be presented.
Mr. Kino reported, from the committee, that
they had waited on the President of thr Umt-
XD States, and that he would receive the Address
of the Senate to-morrow at 12 o'clock. Where-
upon, resoWedj that the Senate will, to-morrow at
12 o'clock, wait on the PiiEerDEMT of THBUHtTED
States accordingly.
A messace from the House of RepresentstiTes
ioformed the Senate that the House have pro-
ceeded to the choice of a Chaplain to Congress on
theit part, and the Rev. Ashbel Green i& duly
elected.
Saturday, December 13.
Agreeably to the lesolutioik of yesterday, the
Senate waited on the PRBSinENT of the United
States, and the Vice President in their name,
presented the Address then agreed to.
To which the President of tbb United
States was pleased to make the following reply :
Oinniicin : With real pleasure I receive your Ad-
dtMB, recognising the proeperaus aituatioD of our pub-
lic t&ilH, and givintf ssauiances of your careful atten-
tion to the objectd demanding Legietative comnderation ;
■nd that, witb a true zeal lor Che puUic welfare, jon
win cheerliilly co-operate in every meaauie which ahiil
appear to you beet calcolateii to promote the same.
But I derive peculiei eatia&ction fiom yoia cc
rence with me m the eipressiona of gr^itude
mighty God, which a review of the auspicious ci
stances that diatinguish our happy countiy ha'
.cited; and I trust the uneerity of our acknowledg-
ments will be evinced by a union of efibrts to establish
and preserve its peace, freedom, and prosperity.
G. WASHINGTON.
The Senate returned to their own Chamber,
and soon af^er adjourned.
Monday, December 14.
John Rdthbrpdrd, from New Jersey, attended.
The petition of Jojin Blanch was presented and
read, praying Congress to grant him a patent, for
executing and vending a new hydrostatic pump
or engine, for such length of time as may be judged
expedient
Ordered, That this petition be referred to
Messrs. BuTLEB, Strong, and Read, to consider
and report thereon to the Senate.
The Vice President laid before the Senate a
communication from the Secretary for the De-
partment of State, with copies of two reports,
made by the Directors of the Mint, to the Prebi-
DBHT or tbe United States ; which were read,
and referred to Messrs. Cabot, Binohah, and Ru-
TBBBFDHo, to consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
ToesdaY, December 15. '
Aaron Bdrr, from New York, and John Vih-
frmn the Department of Wat,
with the following statements :
No. ]. Of the present Military force of the
United States.
No. 2. A report of the measures which have
been pnrsued to obtain proper site« for Arsetials.
No. 3. A report of the measures which have
been taken to replenish the magazines with mili-
tary stores.
No. 4. A report of the measures taken for opett-
inK a trade with the Indians i and.
No. 5. A report of the progress made in pro-
viding material)! for the frigates, and in biiilaing
Which statements were severally read, and or-
dered to lie for consideration,
Wbdheboay, December- 16.
I Bbadfobd, from Rhode Island, at-
WlLUA
tended.
Ordered, That Messrs. Bubr, Bac
Ellsworth, be a committee to take ii . .
deration the report ftom the Department of War,
of the measures taken for opening a trade with
the Indians, aci^ report thereon to the Senate.
The petition of Samuel Jones, and others, in
behalf of some hundreds from Wales, who have
left their native country with a view of forming
a peroianent establishment in America, praying
liberty to purchase a certain tract of land men-
tioned in the petition, was read, and ordered to
lie on the table.
Trdbbday, December 17.
The Vice Prebident laid before the Senate a
Letter from Samuel Meredith, Treasurer, together
with his accounts, ending 31st December, 1794,
31st March, 1795, and 30ili June, 1795.
Also, his accounts in the War Department, end-
ing 31st March, 30ih June, and 30th September,
1795; which were read, anil ordered to lie for in-
spection.
Ordered, That Messrs. Stbonq, Liveruobk,
and BdrRj be a committee to inquire what busi-
ness remained unfinished at the last session, and
report such part thereof as is proper to be taken
into consideration the present session.
On motion, that it be
"Rantetd, That the Saoetaiy of War be teqnerted
to lay belbre the Senate an account of the expenditoraa
It was agreed that this motion lie until tiMnot-
row lor eonaideraiLon.
Friday, December 18.
Obobob Walton, appointed a Senator of the
United States by the Biecutive of the State of
Georgia, in place of Jambs Jackcon, :
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
Dbcbnbes, 1795.]
Proctedingt.
[Sbnatk.
rduced Ilia credentials, and, the oath required
law being administered, he took bis seat in the
The motion ouide vesterdav, that the Secretary
of War be requested to lay before the Senate an
iccount of the expenditures in the late miliiarv
operalioDi against the insurgent*, was resumed,
and it was agreed that the consideratioD (hereof
be furCher postponed.
Mr. Stkonq, irom the committee appointed to
inquire what business remained unfinished at the
last Kssion, which, in their opiliion, it is proper
sbonld be taken into concideratioB at the preaeut
session, reported —
That the following- bills oriffinated in the Sen-
ate, and were postponed until the present Con-
tiKs, or had oDiy two readings, and remained un-
anished, viz :
1. A bill sutborizing the purchase of Indian
goods.
2. A bill to pnnish frauds committed on the
Bank of the United Slates.
3. A bill to regulate proceeding in cases of out-
4. A bill dectarine the consent of Congress to an
■CI of the Stateof Virginia, passed the 25th of De-
cember, 1794, for the support of a marine hospital.
5. A bill to autborise the holding of special
Courts in certain cases.
Which bills, upon the motion of any member
of the Senate, may be taken up at the present
The Vica PasaiDaHT laid before the Senate the
Report of the Commissioners of 'the Sinking
Fand ; which was read, as follows :
■' The Comauvionen of the SiuUii« Fund raqiacl-
Eollj report to Congress :
" That, ponuant to th« act, antillvd ' An act snpplo-
neatary to the act malung pioTision tor the Dslrt of
the United States,' and in confoinut; to resohitiona
■(reed upon by them, and uvenUy spproted by the
PreBdent of tha United States, they tuTe caused pni-
diuet of Iha aaid Debt to be made, through the agaacy
ef Swnael Meredith, Esq., Trcainiar of the United
Btitet, mbMquent to dieii report, dated the 18tb day
Nonmber, 1T94, to the anoiuit of $42,639 14, for
which iheie have beet) paid, including a sum of 9160
•Uowed iat commiMiotis on pordiases Ibnneily made
■nd tiported, the sum of 9373lS 37, in specie.
" That the docomenta accompa
Buked A, B, C, show ll
1; and in detail, ineladiE„
■hen, the prioea at which, t
he poichaies w
-That the D
1 the pnrchaaea now and haretelbre reported
■inonnt, together, to 93,307,861 71, for which there
bn been pud, in apade, tl,S18,936 04, as will more
psnienlsriy appear bata iha docomeat naikad A.
"That there mnuns at thia time In the hands aC
^■id Agent the sum of 970,M81S,ariainK from dK
^^^•ndi nihnqnent to the 1st day of April last, an stock
hnvtofan rauduaad and redeemed, which torn, with
the diTidends to be made thereon, at the dose of the
^■■•Bt jMi, and other fluids appropriated by law, will
» WBed, on the 1st day of Janiiaiy anaulng, to the
'■wwtriiHsat ofthe wa pe« eant stock, bearing a pra-
~' ~' ' '» Iha dinctiMS conlunadia
the act, entitled ' An act nuking Authet pconatDa t^f
the anppoit of Public Credit and for the rodenptioii of
the Public Debt.'
" On behalf of the Board,
-Dumber IS, 1796. JOHN ADAMS."
MoNDAT, December SI.
The motion made on the 17th instant, "that
the Secretary of War be requested to lay before
the Senate an account of the expenditures in the
late militaryjiperalioits against the insurgents,"
was withdrawn, and the following motion anb-
sUtuted :
" That the Secretary of War be reqaested to lay be-
fore the Senate a statonent c4 the uUitaiy tooe aetn*
ally empk^ed sgsinst the inaorgaata in the fmn: Waat-
em conntiea of Penn^lrania, and an account of the
expenditores in that expedition; dmnng, in parlicn-
lar, the perioda of tiaie for which the mihtia of lbs la-
spectiTE States drew pay ; alao, a list of the general
and regimental staff, with the pay reepectively received
by tham, and an account of the pa; and diabutseaiBnts
M the Commaudat-io-ChieC"
Ordered, That this motion lie for consideration.
TcEBDA.r, December 22.
The ^euate took into consideration the motion
made yeslerdajr that the Secretary of War be re-
quested to exhibit eertaiD accounts of the expend-
itures for the militia employed a^inst the insur-
gents in the four Western counties of Pennsylva-
nia: Whereupon,
JtexAved; That the Secretary of War be re-
quested to lay before the Senate a statement of
tne military force actually employed against the
insurgents m the four Western counties of Penn-
svlvania, and an account of the expenditures in
tnat expedition ; showiOK, in particular, the pe-
riods of^time for which the mihtia of the respect-
ive States drew pay ; alsa a list of the general
and regimental staff, with' the pay respectively re-
ceived by them, and an account of the pay and
disbursements of the Commander-in-Chief.
Mr. Bubr, from the committee to whom was
referred the report from the De[nrtment of War,
of the measures taken for openine a trade with
the Indians, reported, " Tiial, in the opinion of
the committee, it will be expedient to appiopriate
a further sum for the purposes of Indian trade g
and that a bill should be introdnced fat that
And, the report being adopted, the comnlnet
was directed to bring in a bill accordingly.
WEDHaenaT, Deeainbei 23.
Mr. BcBH, from the committee yesterday in-
structed to that purpose, reported a bill making
Srovbion for the purposes of trade with the In-
ians; which was read, and ordered to a second
Or^rtd, That Messrs. ELLewoRTn, Stbono.
and Tazbwbll, be a committee to prepare and
report a bill to regulate proceedings in cases of
outlawry.
;dbvGeogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Presentation of tAe Colon of France.
• Ordered, That the Secretary for the Deparl-
ment of Treasury be requested to lay before the
Senate returns of the imports and exports of the
United States, similar to those heretofore eihibil-
ceived the accounts Iroin the several districts, and
commenciDg from the last returns made.
Thubsdav, December 24.
and, alter debate, the further consideralioa there-
of was postpoDea.
Ordered, by uoaoimous conaent, that Mr. Taze-
well have pennisnioQ to introduce a bill declar-
ing the consent of Congress to "An act of the
State of Vii^nia, passed the 25th of December
1794, for the support of a Marine Hospital ;"
which bill was read, and ordered lo a second
reading.
Mr. BtJTLER reported, from the committee to
whom was referred the petition of Joha Blanch,
and the report was read, and ordered to lie for
coosjderatioD.
MoNDAT, December 28.
The bill declaring the consent of Conffress to
" An act of the State of Virginia, passed ine 35th
of December, 1794, for the support of a Marine
Hospital," was read a second time, and referred to
Messrs. Tazewell, Stbono, and BiHoaAH, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill making jirovisioo for the purposes of trade
with the Indians.
Ordered, That this bill be referred to Messrs.
Ellbwobth, Tazewell, Burr, Rose, and Browh,
to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
Tdesday, December 29.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee on the petition of John
Bfauch; which is as follows:
" That, in their opinion, it will be proper to penoit
■bcni, irbo are rendenti in the United Btates, to obt '
•n axcluiTB property in an; lueflil ut, machine,
naUDbctare, thej may hiiTe invented, in ciae n
•lieuj), before their application ibr guch eiclnmTa pro-
par^, ahsll have taken an oath that it ia their intention
to become ddiem of the United States, in the manner
pointed out tn the Grat section of the act, entitled ' An
act to establish an uniibrm rule of nktunlixation, and
to repeal the act hereloiOTe passed on that subject;'
and that a Inll be brought in tor that pacpose."
On motion to amend the report, by adding, af-
ter the word "subject," the following words:
"and^ also, that he has not obtained a patent for
such mvenlion or improvement from any foreign
Prince or State," it passed in the negative.
Ordered, That the report be adopted, and that
the committee be instructed to bring in a bif
cordingty.
Wednesdav, December 30.
The Senate assembled, but transacted r
Thursdav, December 31.
The Senate assembled, and, in order t(
committees opportunity to perfect theii
adjourned to 12 o'clock t(
Friday, January 1, 1796.
Mr. Ellsworth, from the committee appointed
for the purpose, reported a hill to regulate proceed-
Ss in cases of outlawry ; which was read, end
ered to a second reading.
Monday, January 4.
The bill to regulate proceediogs in cases of out-
lawry was read the second time, and its further
consideration postponed until to-morrow.
The following Message was received from the
REaiDENT or THE UNITED STATES, by Mr. DaD-
dridge, bia Secretary. Captain Sedara, of the
first Suh-Legion, bearing the Colors mentioned in
the Message :
the Senate, and
Hmitt of Sepretenlaiivet:
A Letter from the Miniitet Plenipotendary of the
French Bepublic, received on the SSd of the lut month,
covered an Addrera, dated the Slit of October, 1704,
&OID the Conunttt«e of Public Safety to the RejHreaen-
tativae of the United 8tatei in Congreas ; and also in-
formed me that he was instructed by the Committee to
preeent to the United Statsg the Colors of France. I
therelbre proposed lo receive them lut Friday, the Br>l
day of the new year, a day of general joy and congia-
tnlstiott. On that da; the Minister of the French Re-
rbtic delivered the Colon with an Address, to which
returned an answer. Bj ^e latter, the Senate will
*ee that I have informed tiie Minister that the Colors
will be deposited with the archivee of the United States.
But it seemed to me proper previouit; to exhibit to the
two Honsea of Congreaa these evidencea of the con-
tinued friendship of the French Hepublic, together with
the sentiments expressed by me on the occasion in be-
half of the United Slates. Tfiey are herewith com-
mttnicatod. O. WASHINGTON.
UniTiD Btatbs, January 4, 17M.
The Message and papers were read i after which
the Colors were withdrawn, and the Message and
papers ordered to lie for consideration.
Tuesday, January 5.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill lo regulate proceeding in cases of outlawry,
and proceeded to the consideration thereof in pa-
ragraphs; and, after progress, the bill was post-
poned until to lo-morrow. '
PRESENTATION OF FRENCH FLAG.
A motion was made by Mr. Tazewell, second-
ed by Mr. Lanodon, that it be —
-Remkudby the Senate of the VnitedSMei in Con
greet attenbled. That the ProMdent be iafbnned th
.dbyGoogle
JlNOART, 1796.J
HISTOHT OF CONGRESS.
Pretentation of the Colon of Prantx.
SmuIc li»Te received, widi the pureat plesmire, the evi-
denen of the continDed friendihip of the French Re-
paUic, which aecompuued his Menage of yeatard&y.
" That he be reqaeRed to umre that magnanimoaa
nation, IhroDgh the pmper orgvn, that the Seusla anite
with him in all the teeling* eipreaaed to the Minister of
Fnnco, aa tlie pnnentation of the Colon of hii NalioD,
and denwtlj wiah that this ^mbol of the triumphii and
en&anchiiemantof that p«» people, given as a pledge
of bithfitl frieadahip, and pUoed among the evidencea
s alJeclioD by -which the two Repnblica
ue K) hap[nly united."
Ur. Eu-avoRTH moved that these resolutions
ihould lie oa tbe table until to-morrow, tbut mem-
beis should ttave an opportunity of perusing atten-
iiTely the papers accompanying the Message of
(he PRESIDEHT.
Mr. BoTLBR said, iliai lit abould Tcry reltict-
latly, in general (»ses, oppose a motion of the
kmd now made; but^ on tne present occasion, he
could not give it his aasent. If tbe resolutions
were intricate, or by ihe question the judgment
of the Senate couid be committed, be should ac-
cord in ihe wish expressed by tbe mover; but, as the
iNolutions go merely loan expression of the senli-
loenis of the House respecting the French Republic,
their feelings and judgment must be aa ripe for such
expression now as they can be at any future period.
It wfts not like a law that was to affect the Senate
btreafter ; it had nothing to do with the internal
Muatiou of tbe country or municipal regulations ;
lut they only went to express a sympathetic feel-
ing for the French Republic, and a wish to see
ihem enjoy every happiness under the form of
Government they have lately chosen.
This CHDiiot coqimit the Senate, he conceived.
If the motion for postponement prevailed, it might
convey a distrust of the sense of the Senate re-
tpeeiiog that Republic. He fell a lively sense
towards that nation on account of the glorious
cause in which they had embarked ; of their gal-
lantry and spirit in their arduous struggle to place
men uoon a footing they were entitlaf to. raising
them from a state of tbe most abject and aebasing
slavery.
He declared himself always ready to express
his feelings oa tbe magnanimity of such a prople.
If other members of the Senate possessed not
those feeUngs, they could now ^ive the resolations
their negative. He did not wish for a postpone-
ment, as it mifht be viewed as in a mannei sligbt-
iiiE the Republic.
Mr. ELLawoHTH believed there was no real dif-
ference of opinion on the subject. Alt fell an ar-
dent friendship for tbe French; but one mode of
apressing it might be more proper than another.
Besides, it might be a doubt whether an eiprev
lion of the feeUngs of the Senate on this occasion
**i necessary — tne Representatives had already
spoken. He was not, as tbe member who spoke
before him, ready on ^ occasions to express his
■entiments ; but only on fit . occasions, and then
he wished to do it in the most proper manner.
The oparatinw <iS bis nund, he eoniened, were
slow. He wished more time for the perusal of
tbe documents laid before tbe Senate by tbe Pbe-
91 DENT.
Mr. LivBRHORB was also in favor of postpone-
Mr. Lanodon observed, that since members did
so earnenily req^uire lime, he should not urge an
immediate decision; he should no longer object
to a postponement (ill to-morrow. He was happy
to bear gentlemen say there was no difference of
sentiment upon the present occasion ; he hoped
that, upon subjects relative to France, this might
always be the case, and that the Senate would
not confine itstlf to empty professions of attach-
ment, but would evince it by substantial deeds.
Mr. Tazewell did not wish to press tbe busi-
ness to an immediate decision, since members de-
sired time. He confessed he did not expect a
motion for n postponi^ment would be made, as the
rrsolutiuns he offered contained notbinfi: more
than the Phebidbnt had expressed on the occa-
sion. However, if it was wishod that tbe Senate
should express their sentiments in still stronger
language than the PnEBinBNT, be should not
The opposition to the motion for postponement
being withdrawn, it was agreed to.
Wbdmesiui, January 6.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
motion made yesterday on tbe Message of the
President of tbg Uniteo States, of the 4th
instant, and the presentation of the flag of the
French Republic; and,
On motion of Mr. C*hot, seconded by Mr.
ELi.awDRTiJ, to expunge these words from the se-
cond paragraph of tbe motion : " that he be re-
quested toassure that magnauimousnation, through
the proper organ" —
Mr. Stborq was in favor of striking out. He
observed that the communication made to the Se-
nate by die Presidbnt consisted of (wo distinct
parts, the letter from tbe French Committee of
Safety and the address accompanying the flag.
In the letter not one word was said about the flag;
it was written in October '94, and there was pro-
bably then no idea of sending one. Tbe letter and
the flag only happened to be delivered at the same
time ; there was no other connexion between
them. The letter, he said, was in answer to one
from this country, and was meant to close a com-
plimentary correspondence. It required no an*
Bwer; it would puzzle any one to make an an-
swer to it. An attempt was made by the resoln-
tion ofiered, which proved it impossible to answer
it. The resolution forsook the contents of the
letter, which he repeated, closed tbe correspond-
ence. Tbe United States had presented to tbe
National Convention our flag ; or rather our Min-
ister (and he was unwilling to question tbe pro-
priety of his so doing) presented it on behalf of
(his Onvemment s a French flag was sent in re-
turn ; then the propriety of an answer ^on this
ground became the sole qneation.
been delivered tc ' "
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Sbnatb.]
Preientaiion of the Colon of Frcmex.
[JiMOARY, 1796.
answer on the presentation of it — a complete aud
perfect answer. He commuuicated his answer to
the Senate. Then was it proper, he asked; that
the Executive should be requested to make a se-
cond answer^ and nearly in the same words 1 The
President, in bis answer, expressly says, that be
sneaks not onW his own sentiments, but those of
tne citizens at large, including, no doubt, the Se-
nate. Id this situalioo of the traosaction toothing
can be proper to be done by the Senate but (o ex-
press their opioioa of the propiiety of his answer;
and this would be accomplished by adopting the
substance of the resolution, aAer striking out the
words proposed.
There could be (he concluded, by obseTTing) no
differeace of feeling in the Senate on the occa-
sion. The only dinerence was in the mode of ex-
pressing it, and he iuclinedj for the reasons giren,
to that which was the object of the motion for
strikingout.
Mr. Ellbworth was also of opinion that the
Hubjeci divided itself into two distinct parts. The
first object was an expression of the pleasure of
the Senate at this new evidence of the friendship
of Fraece, and joining with the President in ail
the feelines he had expressed on the occasion.
This would be efleclually done by entering on the
Journals the resolution as proposed to be amend-
ed. The PRESIDEKT received (he ftag and an-
swered, then communicated the transaction to the
Senate.
It appeared, by the papers communicated, he
contended, that there vras no connexion between
the letter of the Committee of Public Safety and
the flag. He would not say that both were not
very important transactions, but they were dis-
eonnectea. The letter was written moeh ante-
eedent to the sending of the &&g — it was written
io '94, and was intended to close a correspond-
ence. The correspondence began bjr an aadrass
from the Convention, while Robespierre was an
active member of it This address was to Con-
gresi : the President transmitted it to each
House, and they sent it back to the Executive, re-
queeting he would answer it. with expressions of
the friendly dispositions of the United States to-
wards France. The resolutions of the Houses
and the letter of the Executive were transmitted
through Mr. Monroe. The letter now in the view
of the Senate is in answer to that, and closes the
complimentary correspondence, if it ever can
close. Propriety did not require another word
from the Senate j indeed, decenev did not admit
it, for it could not be coDtendea that the corre-
spondence should be kept upod v^m^m.
As to the fla^ how can it require an answer
from the SenateK It was not presented to them
by the French Minister, but to the Pbsbident,
who had answered, not only for himself, but for
the citiieiu of the United States j and he im-
agined it would not be contended that the mem-
bers of the Senate were not citizens.
It is not advanced, be said, that the President
did not express the sentiments of the Senate in the
answer to the Minister; on the contrary, his
woxda are botiowed in this resolution. But it is
wished he should answer again in thesame strain,
and this was, in hb opinion, neither necessary nor
Mr. Ellsworth next combated the resolution
OS originally uSered as unconstitutional. Nothing,
he contended, could be found in the Constitution
to authorize either branch of the Legislature to
keep up any kind of correspondence with a foreign
nation. To Congress were given the powers of
legislation and the ri^bt of declaring war. Ifau-
tbority beyond this is assumed, however trifliiig
the encroachment at first, where wilt it stopl fi
might be said, that this was & mere matter of ce-
remony and form, and, therefore, could do Do
bann. A correspondence with foreign nations
wa? a business of difficulty and dehcacy— the
peace and tranquility of a country may hinge on
It. Shall the Senate, because they may think it
in one case trifling, or conceive the power ought
to be placed in them, assume it 7 If it was not
specially delegated by the Constitution, the Senate
might, perhaps, but it is positively placed in the
bands of the Executive. The people who sent
us here, (said Mr. B.,) placed their confidence in
the President in matters of this nature, and it
does not belong to the Senate to assume it.
So forcibly^ he said, were bothHouses impress-
ed with the impropriety of the Legislature cor-
responding with any foreign Power, that, when
it was announced to them that the unfortunate
Louis XVI. had accepted the Constitution of 'S9,
the communication was sent back to the Presi-
But even this, he considered, they had not strict-
ly a right to do. It was only savii^ appearances.
Neither branch had a right to dictate to the Pre-
amsHT what he should answer. The Constitu-
tion left the whole business in his breast. It was
wroog to place him In the dilemma of disobliging
the Legislature or sacrificing his own discretion.
But if such practices had inadvertently been fol-
lowed, it was full time to recede from them.
He recapitulated, in a few words, and con-
cluded, by observing, that should the motion for
striking out prevail, members would still be in or-
der to amend the resolution, if they chose, by ad-
ding to the warmth of expression it already con-
Mr. Butler considered the situation into which
the member up before him seemed desirous that
the Senate should be placed, as highly degcading ;
they were to be deprived of the right of express-
ing their own sentiments, they were to have no
voice, no wilL no opinion of their own, but such
as it would please the Executive to express foi
. The only fault he fonnd in the resolve was, that
it was not full and expressive enough. He ob-
served, that it appeared the studied desire of one
part of the House to cut off all communication be-
tween the people of the United States and the peo-
ple of the French Republtc. Their representatives
are now told, that they can have no will, no voice,
but through the Executive. Their constituents
never intended that they should be placed in this
;dbvG00gle
fflSTOHY OP 0ONGBE8S.
jAwnAiT, 1796.J
PreteKtatun of the Colerm o^ /Vmce.
ridicaloaspoint of new. Eind be declared be nerer
eoutd sit tinder it siieutly.
He turned to tbe Journals of tbe Senate to show
that in the proceed inzB ia the case of the answer to
the coDUDunicacion from Robespierre and others,
tbere was a considerable division in tbe Senate,
but did not meet the suue oC the Senate rery
genttaily.
Upon tbe presentation of the flag to the Presi-
DENT,lhe Minister particularly obserTes, that it is
far the people of the United States. The Prem-
DENT in bis answer, epeaks of himself and his own
feelings. He read part of his answer — "Born in a
laod of Liberty," &c. He does intimate, he ob-
Kired, in a cursory manner, that be trusts be
ueaks the sentiments of his fellow-citizens : but
does not attempt to make any professions of either
branch of the Legislature, ihioKing, no doubt, that
when the subject came before them, ihey would
ipeak for themselves.
Suppose, he asked, that tbe ezwession of friend'
ihip contamed in tbe Presisbht's Address on tbe
occasion, fell short of tbe feelings of the Senate,
would they, he asked, adopt the expressions for
theii own i For his own part, he declared, he
could not leave it to others Co speak bis sentiments,
but cbose to reserve tbal right to himself. Sven
if no communication Imd been received from the
French Republic, no token of attachment, tbe
present period in their affiiiis, the establishment
ofa new Government, would warrant an address
of coagratulalion. There could be no impropriety
in it, unless there were objections to drawing
Higher to the Republic. Besides, the address of
the Committee of Safety, was certainly intended
for the Legislature, being directed to the Repre-
seaiatives, imless it coula be denied that the Sen-
ile were Representatives of tbe people of the
United States.
There was nothing in the Constitution, he con-
tended, that could prevent the Legislatare from
eipiessing their sent i meats : it was not an Eieeu-
■ive ict,butain ere complimeularyanswertoa com-
plimentary presentation. If ibis right was denied
tbcm, where would tbe princi[de stop, tbe Senate
mighibemade in time mere automata. It wasas
proper, he contended, for tbe Senate to express an
(^nion on tbe occasion as for the President or
House of Representative.
He concluded bv obs
*» ofiered, said as little
euion, and he never could consent to the striking
out. which would cause it to be entered only on
the Journal, and would be an indirect slight of
tbe French Republic, as (he sentiments of the
Stnaie would not be communicated to them.
Mr. Tazewell was happy to find no difference
in the Senate as to the substance of the resolution.
Aiihe form, however, bad been made matter of
detate, some importance had been given to it
vliichitB intrinsic consequence perhaps did not
desprre. mi it became tbe Senate to weigh well
their decision. It certainly, he said, could not be
ynkoown to the Senate that unfavorable impres-
lioDs had traveled abroui respeating their feding*
and sentimmts towards the French, and he sug-
gested to their considnation whether if the pre-
sent motion for striking out prevailed, even in tbe
face of their own precedents, it would not give
countenance to the surmise. On a former occa-
sion he stated a comraimication was made to tbe
Senate through the PBBatDDNT, informing that the
King^of France had accepted the Crown under
tbe Constitution of 1789. The Senate were not
content on that occasion with barely approving
what the PREaincNT had done, but requested ciie
PaESinenT to say in their behalf, that they were
happy at the event, and to assure tbe King, of
their good will for the prosperity of the French
naiioQ and his own. What diflierence, he asked, '
was there on that occasion and tbe present, when
the French just adopted and organized a new Oo-
vemment7 Will it not be said, he asked, that the
possess in their eyes, if on the present occa-
sion they should deviate from a precedent estab-
lished before royalty was abolished ? This would
be naturally implied, and the Senate, be conceiv-
ed, should avoid the imputation, ^heie was no
necessity pleaded in favor of strikmg out, if the
motion was not insisted on, it would remove im-
pressions which it was nseful should be removed,
and which he trusted would be removed.
He dwelt on the impropriety of the Senate's re-
jecting a form of proceeding in this ease, not only
sanctioned by their own precedent, but by the
practice of both the Pbebident and Senate. Why,
especially, he asked, should they give rise to in-
vidious comparisons between themselves and the
other branch? He hoped the motion for striking
out would not prevail.
Mr. Ellbwobth conceived there existed a ma-
terial difference between the present case and tbal
cited by the member last up. Tbe communica-
was Aea to Congress, now to the PnEsiDEifr, who
had only given given an account of the transaction
to the Senate. He added, however, that the line
of conduct pursued by the Senate on the former
pressed hopes which be never thought ci
realized, and in the event it proved so ; for before
the sentimentBof tbe Senate could cross the Atlan-
tic, the unfortunate King and Constitution were
both overthrown. This, he argued, should make
the Senate wary in their proceedings in enalogona
cases. Upon the communication from Robespierre,
Barrere, and others, the Senate were more cau-
tious, they said noIhiDg about the Constitution,
but only requested the Prbbidbnt to express in
their behalf the sentimenta of friendship, &e.,
which (he Senate entertained for France. The
Senate gave the PaEaiDENT a short text on that
occasion ; and be wrote according to his own dis-
cretion, and perhaps expressed more than tbe
Senate would have said. If a short text was given
Ibis objection occurred ; if the Senate amplified,
then they dictated improperly to the Presidbht
wbai he should write.
The example of the House of Re|a'esentativei
id been mentioned; he conceived it was no rule
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
SiHATB.]
PTfentatum ^ the Color* of fVoMtce.
[Jandart, 1796.
ol proceeding for ibe Beiuite. The fkct was, that
the resoWe eairied in that House was upon a rerr
slifffat view indeed of the papers commuDicated.
Indeed, it would appear upon the face of it. that it
was penaed before toe papers were read. This was,
in his opiQiun, no example for imitationi the Sen-
ate ought to proceed with their usual deliberatioD.
It bad been said that doubts had ^one abroad,
whether the Seoate were frieodlf to France.
Those doubt* had been raided hy writers among
us, the same who also endeaToi toconftnce the
Ainerieans that the friendship of France toward»
them was not cordisl. This must appear unfoucd-
ed from the proceeding now the object of debate,
and the former suspicion must be removed by an
iuHertion of the snostance of the resolution now
before the Senate on their Journals.
Mr. Tazewell said a few words to show that
there was no difference between the case he had
already cited, the proceeding of the Seoate, when
they expressed their satisfaction at the manner in
which ibe National Convention had honored the
memory of Benjamin Franklin, and the present
Mr. RoBH differed. In the former instances, the
pRESinEHT made the original communicatians to
the Senate before he had answered them ; now
be has answered and only communicates an ac-
count of the transaction.
Mr. Bdbh whs against striking out. The Na-
tional Convention, he observed, might, when they
received the answer to their first communication,
Live said, as i<{ now said on the floor of the Sen~
ate, that the correspondence there ended, and that
it was not necessary to make us a reply ; but they
acted differently, and he hoped the Senate would
acknowledge tlic receipt of their pledge of friend-
ship. Indeed, he said, he could not sec that any
great harm would arise in the two branches of the
Legislature interchanging even once a year a let-
ter of friendship and goodwill with the Republic.
It was objected that l^p present resolution was no
answer to the letter. A few lines would make it
M, and Ihey might easily be added. The amission
did not prove, as had been asserted by one mem-
ber, that it was impossible to answer it. That it
was not impossible was testified by the proceedings
of the other branch. He did not Intend to slight
the dignity of the Senate, however, he said, by
quoting the proceedings of the other House as a
binding rule of proceeding for this; but iheir pro-
ceedings certainly proved the possibility of mak-
ing an answer ; and besides, there was full as much
propriety in looking for precedents in their con-
duct, asm the proceedings of a British Parliament.
Bach, however, in Iheir place might deserve
weight though not implicit reliance.
He advocated the rights of the Senate to answer
for thems^ves, and the propriety of acknowledg'
ing the receipt of the Colors, which were not sent
to the Executive exclusively.
He concluded by citing the Senate's own prece-
dents inanalogous cases, and he hoped, that it w "
not be insisted that the practice of two or I
successive years deserved to be laid to the charge
of inadvertency.
After a few words more from Measrs. Stronq,
Bdhh, Reed, and Bdtleb, the yeas and nays were
called upon striking out, which were taken and
itood — yeas 16, nays 8, as as follows:
YvAi. — Messrs. fiinghun, Bradford, Csbot, EUswortb,
Koater, Gann, listimcr, Livanum, Msnhall, Paine,
Reed, RoH, Rothnfard, Strong, TnuuboU, uid Walton.
Nats— HsMia. Bloodwwth, Brown, Bmr, Butler,
Luigdan, Martin, Robiiuon, and Taiewell.
Whereupon, it was
Reiehed, unanimouaiy, that the Pbesident be
informed the Senate have received, with tiie pu-
resipleaKure, theevidencesof the continued friend-
ship of the French Republic, which accompanied
his Message of the 4th inst.
That the Senate unite with him in nil the feel-
ings expressed to the Minister of France on the
presentation of the Colors of his nation, and de-
voutly wish that this symbol of the triumphs and
enfranchisement of that great people, given as a
pledge of faithful friend^ip, and placed among
the evidences and memorials of the freedom and
independence of the United States, may contrib-
ute to cherish and perpetuate the sincere affection
by which the two Republics are so happily united.
OrdertS, That the Secretary lay iliis vesolu-
>n before the PRESinENT of the United
', January 7.
The Senate lesumed the second reading of the
bill to regulate proceedings in cases of outlawry,
paragraphs ; and, after consideration, the bill
s further postpooed.
FmnAy, January 8.
The following Message was received from the
E United States:
Oavemment of the United States," on the subject of
the pablie buildings under their directicHi.
Since locating a district fer Ibe paimanent Iteat of
the Oavemment of the United States, as heiBtofoi«
announced to both Housca of CongrM*, I have ac-
cepted the grants of monej and of luid stated in the
memorial of the Commissionera. I have directed tlia
buildings therein mentioned to be commenced, on
plans which I deemed coosistent with the liberally of
the gruits and proper for the purposes intended.
I have not been inattentive to this important biui-
neaa intrusted b; the Legislature to my care. I have
viewed the reaources placed in mj hands, and ob-
MTved tile manner in which they have been applied :
the progresa is pretty fully detailed in the memorial
from the CommiMioners ; and one of them attends to
give further infomiBtion if ie<]Dired. In a caae new
and atdnoua, like the prcHtit. difficulties migbt natn-
railj be eipected : mne have occurred ; bot thej are
in a great degree suranoantad ; and I have no doubt, it
the temaioing naouroea are ptsperij chariahed, ao aa te
pwaat the loaa itf pnqMrty 1^ ^t; and numeroiu
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OP CONGRESS.
J*iiiiABT,1796.]
Procttdmgg.
[Sbhatb.
ale*. Ihat all the btdldiDga raqairad foi the
ditkin of tiie OoirainmeDt of the Unttad StaUa ia*j
be ompleted in iMJon, without lid &om ths Federal
Trewury. The *ub)ect U thetefore recommended to
the nmMdeiatiiui of CongiCB, and the reault will de-
tenoine the msaaara nhich I ihtll cauae lo be punued
with reniecl to the propiiTtv ramuning aiuold.
G. WASHINGTON.
UlTiTiB Stith, January 8, 1796.
Tbe Message and memorial therein refe^d to
were read, and ordered to lie for coosideTation.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill lo regrntale pioceedings in cases of ontlawry,
ud, af^er progress, the further cunaideration
thereof was postponed.
The pRESiDEirr laid before the Senate a Letter
from Samuel Meredith, Treasurer of the United
States, together with bis specie account for the
quarter ending the 30th December, 1795iTChicb
were read, and orderd to lie on tbe table.
Monday, January 11.
Richard Potts, from Maryland, attended.
The ViCB PHBHinBHT laid nefore the Senate a
communication ftom the Secretary for the Depart-
menl of Treasury, in consequence of the order of
the S3d of December last, with a return (marked
A) of the exports of the United States, supple-
mental to that IraDsmiltedonthe36thof Fehiua-
7, 1795, -which completes the returns of exports
lo the 30th of September, 1794:
A Btateoient (marked B) showing liie apeciuc
■nicies imported into the United Slates in each
calendar year, commencing with the estabtish-
meni of the revenue, and ending on the 30th of
December, 1794 ^ and
An abstract (marked C) containing a list of the
triicles of merchandise enumerated in the laws
of the United States, as being subject to ad valo-
lem rates of duty, prior to the year 1795 ; which
papers were read.
Ordered, That they lie for consideration.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill to regulate proceedings in cases of outlawry,
ud, after agreeing to sundry amendments, tbe
bill was ordered to a third reatliog.
Tdbsdav, January 13.
The bill to regulate proceedings in cases of out-
Itwry, was read the third time, and passed.
WEDHESDAy, January 13.
Ht. BtTTLBR, from the committee iuatmcted to
that pnrpote, reported a bill to amend an act. en-
■idrd "Ad act to promote the progress
. „ Useful
heretofore made for
read and ordered to a
Arts, and (o repeal the
^u purpose; which
wcDDd reading.
The roUowlng Message was received from the
President of tbe United Statbb :
Ointkmn of the SenaU, and
>/ Uu Hottte of Repraenlatht* ;
' !>} bdne you an official atalanuuit of the azpnidi
■mtoiheaidof Iha jaai 1796, ftcan lh« anM ba»
iystem of the United
States, and to report what alleratio) '
r amend-
tafi»e granted to defray the eontiiigent ehaigea of the
Goiemmant.
O. WASHINGTON.
UxiTiD Stitis, January 13, ITH.
The Message and statement were read, and or-
dered to lie for consideration.
Ordered. That Messrs. Reah, Ellswobth,
RoBB, Strono and Livebhore, be a committee
"V sys
may be necessary i^ the same.
TatiRHDAv, January 14.
The bill to amend an act, entitled "An act to
promote tbe progress of Useful Arts, and to re-
peal the act heretofore mxde for that purpose,"
was read the second time, and tbe further con-
sideratioa thereof postponed until lo-morrow.
Pbidav, January 15.
The Senate resumed the censideration of the
bill 10 amend the act, entitled "An act to pro-
mote the progress of Useful Arts, and to repeal
the act heretofore made for that purpose."
Ordered, That the further consideration there-
of be postponed to Monday next.
M ON DAT, January IS.
The Senate resumed tbe second reading of the
bill to amend the act. entitled " An act to promote
the prwress of Useful Arts, and to repeal the act
heretofore made for that purpose," and having
agreed to the first paragrapli thereof, tbe bill was
ordered to a third reading.
The Vice PasBcDBirr laid before the Senate a
Report of the Secretary for the Department of
War, on the state of the fortifications, which wss
read and ordered lo lie for coitaideration.
ToBBDAT, January IS.
The bill to amend the act, entitled " An act to
promote the progress of Useful Arts, and to re-
peal the act heretofore made for that purpose,"
was read the third lime.
On motion to amend the bill, by subjoining the
following proviso:
" That inch alien or aliens before he, she, or thsji
■hall obtain mch letters patent, ahall take an oath, b«-
fore the Secretuy of State, that mch invention has not
bean publidied and tued, so &r >■ his, bor, or their
knowledge eitenda, in any foreign countryi and that
he, ahe, or they, have not obtained letters patent fbr
the same from any ibreign Power :"
It passed in the negative.
On the gueilion toagree to the bill, it passed in
the af&rmative — yeas 13, nays 11, as follows:
Ybab — Meaaa. Bloodmnih, But, Butler, Elbworth,
Prelinghajaen, Langdon, Marriiall, Martin, Petis,
Read, Sotrinson, and RnthaiAud.
Nats— Mean*. Bingham, BnuUbid, Brown, CtixA,
Henn, Latimer, Liverntore, Paine, Stnnf , Trnaibnll,
and Walton.
So tbe bill was pwaad.
;dbyGoogle
HISTOKY OP CONGRESS.
Proeeedingt.
Wednebdav, January SO.
Ho bnaiaess was transacted in the Senate to-
<i«T-
TarRBDAY, Januarr 21.
Mr. Kino attended to^iay.
Ordered, That MessTs. Ellsworth, Brown,
and Bradford, be a committEe to inquire what
laws wLll expire before the next se&sioD of Con-
gress, and report thereon to the Senate.
Mr. Ellsworth reported, from the committee
appointed to consider the bill making provision
for the purposes of trade with the Indians, that
the bill p«s8 without amendment.
Ordered, That this bill lie on the table.
Fbidav, JaDUary 22. ■
Mr. Ellswobth, from the committee appointed
yesterday, to inquire what laws will expire before
the next meeting of Coagress, reported the fol-
lowing :
The " Act for allowing compensation lo the
members of the Senate and House of Repteseuia-
tives of the United States and to the ffiScers of
both Houses;" passed September SSd, 1789.
The " Act declarinff the consent of Congress
to a certain act of the State of Maryland, and to
eontinu^ for a longer time, an act declaring the
assent of Congress to certain acts of the States of
Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode Island and Prori-
dence PlantationB, so far as the same respects the
States of Qeorgia, and Rhode Island and Provi-
dence Plantations," passed March 19ih, 1702.
Tbe " Act to regulate trade and intercourse
with the Indian tribes ;" passed March 1, 1793.
The " Act making further provision for the
expenses attending the intercourse of the United
States with foreign nations; and further to con-
tinue in force the net, entitled 'An act proriding
the means of intercourse between the United
Stales and foreign nations:" passed March 20(h,
1794.
The "Act directing a detachment from the
militia of the United States;" passed May 9th,
1794.
And tbe '' Act to continue in force for a limited
time the acts therein mentioned;" passed March
2, 1795.
Tbe provisions of the *'Act to regulate the
compensation of clerks," extended only to the
31st of December last; passed March 3, 1795.
The report was read, and ordered to lie for con-
sideration.
MoNDAy, January 125.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate, that the House had pasted a
bill, entitled " An act making appropriations for the
support of Oovemment for the Vear one thousand
seven hundred and ninety-six ;" in which they de-
sire the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read, and ordered to a second
reading.
The Vice Prebioent , laid before the Senate a
Letter from the Secretary for the Department of
Treasury, with a statement from the Commis-
sioner or the Revenue, of the exports of the
United States, to the 30th of September, 1795,
which were read, and ordered to lie for considera-
tion.
Tdbbdat, January 26.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act making
appropriations for the support of Government, for
the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-
six,'' was read the second time, and referred to
Messrs. Rutherford, Ellswortb, and Cabot,
to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
Weomesdav, January 27.
On motion,
" That the proper officer be directed lo fhniiah Sen-
ate with an Bccurate retnm of the imports and exports
into and from the United States, from the periml to
whidi ths last retDrm were made, tuid, in a amilar
uatiner, to the Uteit psriod to whicb rtlumi are mada
by the different districts:"
It was agreed that this motion should lie until
to-morrow for consideration.
TntriteBAT, January 28.
Mr. RuTBERPURD, from the committee ap-
pomted to take Into consideration the bill, sent
froia the House of Repreaentat:
thousand seven hundred and ninety-six," reported
amendments, which were in part adopted; and
the consideration of that part of the bill wHIch
respects the appropriations for the Mint was post-
poned until to-morrow.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
motion made yesterday, for a return of the ex-
ports and imports of the United States, which
was amended, by inserting " Secretary of the
Treasury," in lieu of " proper officer."
Ordered, That the further consideration of this
motion be postponed until Monday nexL
FamAY, January 29. '
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
concurrence, entitled " An act making appropria-
tions for the support of Govarnmeat, for the year
one thousand aeven hundred and ninety-six," and,
having agreed to the amendmenta reported by the
committee, the bill was ordered to a third reading.
The following Messages were received from the
Prebioent of the United States :
Oentlemta of ike Senate, and
of the House of Repretentalita .-
In pursuance of the authority veited in the Prcrndpnt of
the United States, by an act of CongreH pused the third
of March lut, la radnce the weight of the copper coin of
lltB United Btataa, whenever be should think H for the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Febhdaby, 1796.]
December; 1
belief t of Ote United Sutea, piorided ttist the redaction
Aoold not oxeead two peiufweighta in esch cent,~Bnd
in Ae like proportioD in ■ half cent, I \aye catued the
e to be leduced, lince Ihe twenty-seventh of lait
to wit, one pennyweight and aiileen grains
in escD cent, snd in the like proportian in a half cent.,
uid I hxre grren notice thereof I7 proclamation.
By the Letter of the Judges of the Circuit Court of
the iTnited States held at Boaton in June last, and the
encloMd ipplicBlion of the under-keeper of the jail at
thai place — of which copiea are herewith tranamilted —
CongreH will perceiTe the neceaaity of making a mit-
•ble proTision for the maintenance of piiaoners commit-
ted to the jaila of Ax aeireTal Slalee, under Ihe authiHity
of the United atatea.
G. WASHINQTON.
UaiTiB ^TATBa, January 39, ITSfl.
GtntUmen of the Stnaie, and
of tie Houitof Rtpraerttativa !
I send herewith, (or the infbimatioa of Uongieaa —
1. An Act of the LegialatUfC of the State of Rhode
Island, i«ti^ng an amendment to the Constitution of
the United Stain, to preTent miiu in oerUin caaea
igainat a Slate.
3. An Act of Ihe Sute of North Carolina, making
the like ratificatian.
3. An Act of the State of North Carolina, aaaenting
10 the purchaae, by the United State*, of ■ auffident
quantity of land on Shell Caatle laland, far the purpose
of erecting a beacon thereon, and ceding the junididion
tberoof to the United Slates.
4. A copy from the ionmal of praceedingaof the Go-
Kmor, in hia Exeeatin Department, of the Territory
»f the United SlatN Northweal of the rifsr Ohio, '
hlly 1, to Deeembor 31, 1794.
1795; and
B and 7. A copy of the journal of the fnoceediaga of
the GoTemOi,in tua Eiecutife Department, of the Tei-
rilory of the United States South of the river Ohio,
torn September 1, 1794. to September 1, 1796.
8. The Acta of the lat and 2d aeaaiDiuof Ihe General
Asaembly of the same Territory,
G. WASHINGTON.
UxiTiD Bmtt, Januarr/ 29, 17S0.
Ordered, That the last recited Messages of Ihe
pREsrUENT OP THE United States, wiib the ]
Srs iberein menlioDed, be severally referred
^rs. LivEBHOBE, Walton, aod Marshall,
consider ajid report thereon to tbe Senate.
Mr. Cabot preseaied the pelitioa of Jose Roiz
Silra, praying that the officers of the revenue for
ibe Stale of New York may be autborized to le-
faod him two thousand five hundred and twealy-
one dollars, overrated duties, on a car([o of Qraci-
01a wines, imported in the brigantine Mary, in
June, 1793.
The petition was read, and ordered to lie on the
uUe.
MoRitAT, February 1.
Tbcbili. sent from tbe Hoose of Representatives
for coocDrrence, entitled " An act ranking appro-'
priaiions fur the support of GoveroraeDt, for [he
yearooe thousand seven hundred and ninety-six,"
Wat read the third time and passed.
4th Con.— 3
nga. [Senate.
The Senate resumed the consideration of thi
motion made on the ii7th of January last, that tbe
Secretary of the Treasury make a return of im-
ports and exports *, and, 00 motion, permission was
given to witndiaw the motion, for the purpose of
substituting the following :
That the Becretair of the Tieanuy be directed to
flirtuah, for the use of the Senate, a Malement of the
importa into the United States, from the 30th of Sep-
tember, 17SI, to the latest period to which he may have
f eceived returns from the different districts i apedJying
therein, aa particularly as the returns admit of, the arti'
cleo imported ; the cost thereot^ and the countries from
which Ihey hale been imported ; together with the ton-
nage employed in the import trade, and the Kingdoms
or States to which the venels tielaBg.''
Onmotion, it was agreed tliat thia motion dkould
be referred to Messts. King, Butlbr, Ellbwortb,
Cabot, and Lanodok, to consider and report there-
on to the Senate.
TuEBDAT, February 2.
A messagd from the House of RepresentatiTes
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled " An act for esiabliafaing trading
houses with the Indian tribes," in which ibey de-
sire the concurrence of the Senate.
Thebilllaft mentioned was read, and ordered to
a second reading.
The Vice pBEsinEirr laid before the Senate a
Letter from the Secretary of Ihe Department of
War. in reference to the order of Senate of the
22d December last, respecting the expenditures on
the expedition against the insurgents in the foui
Western counties of Peansylvania.
Ordered, That it lie for consideration.
The following Message was received from the
Prebioent of tbe Unitbu States:
Gentlemen of Ihe Senate, tmd
of the Houte of Rtprttentataiei .•
ogna of certam peraona to take posaesawm of land* be-
longing to the CheiokeM, and which Qm United StatM
hare, by treaty, scdemnly gnarantaed to that nation.
Hie injoatice of inch intmaionB, and the mischievous
eaaaeqaencea which mnst necMaarily leanlt IbeiefroiB,
demand that efleetoal proviaion be made to prevent
Q. WASHINGTON.
UviTiD Statss, February i, 1796,
The Message and Letter were read, and ojtdeicd
to lie for consideration.
WEnNEBDAV, February 3.
The biU, sent from the House of Representativee
for concurrrence, entitled '' An act for establishing
trading houses with the Indian tribes," was reaa
the second time ; and, afler consideration, the bill
was postponed until lo-mortow.
Thursday. February 4.
The Senaie resumed the second reeding, and
coniideration in paragraphs, of the bill, sent from
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OP CONORESS.
U
Prvceedingw.
the House ot RepteaeotatiTes for concurreoce,
entitled "Ad act tor establishing tmdiog houses
with the Indian tribes j" Bnd,haviDg amended the
same, the bill was ordered to a. third readiciff.
Mr. BuTLEB presented the petition orjohn
Howell, commaDder of the revenue cutter of the
United States for the port of SsTannah, and the
coasts of the Stale aforesaid, which was read,
prafiog that he, and the other commanders of
the rerenue cutlers, may be placed on the full
Naval Establishment.
Ordered, That it be referred to Messrs. Bdt-
LES, Langdon, and Walton, to consider and re-
port thereon to the Senate.
Fbidat, February 5.
The bill, sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled "An act for estHblisbiof
trading homes with the Indian tribes," was reac
the third time ; and on motion, it was agreed to
expunge the 5th section, which is as follt
" And bt il fiirlher enacted. That six thoiuand dol-
lan be approjmatad, ander the dirsctioli of the Preci-
duit of the United State*, far the purpoae of paying the
agents and deA>; which igenl* abali be allowed to
diaw out of the pnUic Mippliei two rations each, and
each dark, one lation per day."
On motion, it was agreed to amend the last sec-
tion, by adding, after the word "years," the words,
"and to the end of the next session of Congress
thereafter." .
On motion, to add, after the word " aforemen-
tioned," section 6j these words, "and to defray all
aalaries. commissions, and charges, attending the
same," it passed in the negative.
On motion^ to amend the proviso, in theTih sec-
tion, by addinc, after the word " reside," these
words, " or he found," it passed in the negative.
On motion, it was agreed to commit the bill to
Messrs. Ro8B,Kma,and Mabok. to consider gei
rally, and report thereon to the Senate.
Ordered, That the Message of the Phesideht
or THE United States, of the 29th of January,
with a copy of a Letter from the Judges of the
District Court, held at Boston in June last, to-
gether with the application from the undcr-keeper
of the iail there, be referred to the committee ap-
pointed to consider the petition of Jeremiah Allen.
The Vice PaEaiDBifT laid before the Senate a
Letter from the Treasurer of the United Slates,
with hb account of receipts apd expenditures in
the War Department, for the quarter ending the
31st of December lasL
The Letter was read, and ordered to lie on the
table.
The Vice PREBinBNT laid before the Senate,
from the Secretary for the Department of War, a
return of invalid pensioners.
Ordered, That it lie on the table.
MoKDAV, February 8.
Mr. LivBRMORE, from the committee to whom
was referred the memorial of Jeremiah Allen,
Sheriff of the County of Suffoll^ in the State of
Massachusetts, reported : I
under ths aathDiitT of the United States, in order ti
demnijy the sheriff or koeper of the Jail for their coet
and eipensee in such nippoit. The commiltee have
consideied the subject, ana examined the l&wi reiativa
thereto, and are of opinion that the existing lawi an
sufficient for the purpose sibreeaiil; and, theieibie, that
the memoiialist have leava to withdraw hii memoriial."
And the report was adopted.
Tdebday, February 9.
Mr. Roes presented the memorial of Thomas
Leiper A, Co., and others, manufacturers of snuff,
atatmg the disconrasements they meet with in
the prosecntioD of the business, and praying an
entire repeal of the existing excise upon that arti-
cle: which was read, anif ordered to tie on the
table.
Wbdmbsdat, February 10.
Ordered, That the memorial of Thomas Lei-
per & Co., and others, manufacturers of snuff, be
referred to Messrs. Reao, Bloodwobth, and Ltv-
1, to consider and report thereon
the
Senate.
A messa^ from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate ^hat the House have passed
a bill, entitled " An act further extending the lime
for receiving on Loan the Domestic Debt of the
United Stales ;" in which they desire the concur-
rence of the Senate.
This bill was read, and ordered to a second
reading.
Mr. Kino reported, from the committee appoint-
ed the first of February, on the motion that the
Secretary of the Treasury make return of imports
andexports; and the report was adopted. Wnerc-
Heaolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury
do cause to be annually prepared, and reported to
the Senate in the month of January in each year:
A statement of the tonnage of the shipn and
vessels employed in the trade of the United Stales
for one year, ending the first of October preceding
such report ; distinguishing the foreign from the
domeacic foDoage, and ihc quantity belonging to
each foreign nation ; distinguishing, also, the do-
mestic tonna^ employed in foreign trade, from
that engaged m the coasting trade and fisheries ;
Also, a statement of ibe quantity and estimated
value of the exports ot the United States, for the
like term of one year, showing- the amount ex-
ported to each foreifrn nation ;
Also, B statement of the goods, wares, and mer-
chandi.te, imported into the United Stales, for the
like term of one year, distinguishing, in classes,
those which pay an ad valorem duty from those
denominated enumerated articles, showing the
value of the former,and the quantity of the latter;
and showing, also, the amount of each imported
' am each foreign nation.
Mr. RoHB, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled "An act for establishing
trading bousea with the Lidian tribes," reported
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OP CONGRESS.
[SiMATB.
tundry imendmeDta, which were rekd ; and, after
debate, the further cODsideraiioa tbeieof was post-
poDcd until lo-morrow-
Tbdbsday, February 11.
The Senate resumed the consideratioa of ibe re-
CDrt of Ilie committee to whom was referred the
111, sent fiom the House of Reprei«Dtati?es for
concurrence, entitled " An act establishing trading
houses with the Indian tribes;" which was i
adopted as follows :
Sec. 3, line 9, strike out " of this act,'' and
"aforesaid-" Line 10, after the word ''shail," insert
"npoD coHTiction thereof." Same line, strike out
the words, "a sum not exceeding." Line llj
strike out the words " upon convictiL'n thereof."
Line 13, after " United Suies," strike out the re-
mainder of the section.
Make a new sectiou, as follows :
tied,
, , 1 the Ciicuit
DiMrict Courta oTtfae United Sl«t«s,or in the 8uprei__
« BuperioT Court! of die Territorioa of the United
8l>t«, oi in an; State Court having juiisdictiDn over
like oSsncea ; ilthaugh thi misdemeaiior shsU not hftve
been committed within the bounds of their diBtrict
ordinmij juiiidtctiDn. And all torieitures seeming u
tier thie act ihall be one hslf to the nee of the inforrouit,
ind the other half to the um of (he United Statea ; ta
apt whwa the pRMecntion ahall be fint imtituted 1^
public proaecatOT, on behalf of the United States, i
which cue tlif whole ihall bo to their lue."
The hilt was amended, a^r^^ably lo the above
recited rep«rL
On moiioD, it was agreed lo eipnuge the 7th
lection of the bill.
IS agreed to add these words to
» section reported by the com-
ihe end of the n
mittee :
"And it ■ball be the duty of the aupKiiiitcndenta of
Indian a&ir«, and their deputies, respectively, to whom
inlbrmation of e*er; auch offence shall be given, to col-
lect the reqninte evidence, if attainable, and proaecute
the oSender without delay."
On motion, lo reduce the appropriation, from
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars lo one hun-
dred thousand dollars, it passed in the negative.
On motion, to substitute the following in lieu
oTtbeltb section:
' And U a /luiktr etuKted, ThatitahaU be Uwlbl
far the Piesdast of the United Statea to apply, of the
money! herainaAer appropriated, auch lum as he may
judge to be neceaaary, not exceeding the rate of ten
tbmmud di>llsx> per anoUDi, fbr the compenaation of
■he agenta,'aiid ako of their clerks, where he shall au-
thoiite the employment of derki ; which agents ahall
bt iHowed to draw out of the pnUic euppliea two nliou,
■od each derfc one ration par day;"
It passed in the negative.
Oq motion, it was agreed lo ezpuuge, from sec-
lion 3d, these words; "is provided by this act;"
■nd^n lieu thereof, insi\ri, " shall be authorized by
tbe PRtaioF.KT OF thk United Statbs."
Whereupon, Jlegotned, Thut this bill pais as
Fhidav, February 18.
Mr. Lahodof
the Scammel, praying an allowance of rations and
wages during the time he superintended the build-
ing and filling out said cutter ; which was read.
Ordered, Thai it be referred to the committee
appointed the 4th insUint, on the petition of John
Howell.
Ordered, That Messrs. Lanqdon, Ellswohtb,
and Qdkn, be a committee to report a bill to re-
gulate the compensation of clerks.
Mr. Roaa presented the memoria] of the clerks
under the Government of the United States, who
remained in the city of Philadelphia and attended
to the duties of their station, during the preralence
of the yellow fever; which was read, and referred
to Messrs. Roea, Bbadpobd, and Livebmobb, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
MoNDAT, February 15.
The bill, sent from the HouU of Representatife*
for concurrence, entitled " AB act further extend-
ing the time foi receiving on Loan the Domestic
Debt of the United States," was read the second
time, and ordered to a third reading.
Mr. Lanooon, from the committee appointed
for the purpose, reported a bill to regulate the
compensation of clerks; which was read and or-
dered to a secoud reading.
Tdbb
r, February 16.
The bill to regulate tbe ):ci|npeiisation of clerka
from the House of Representa-
rence, entitled "An act further
extending the time for receiving on Loan the
Domestic Debt of the United States," was read
the thitd time, and passed.
Wednebday, February 17.
TJie bill to regulate the compensation of cterka
was taken into consideration, and the third read-
ing of the bill was posipoued.
Ordered, That Messrs. Stbono, Pottb, and
Walton, be a committee to consider the ex-
pediency of amending "the act for the relief of
persons imprisoned for debt," and, if they think
proper, to report a bill for that putrpoee.
Thurbdat, February 18.
n of the Executive business.
FaiDAY, February 19.
n motion, that the bill to regulate the com-
pensation of clerks be recommilted, it was agreed
to refer it to a special committee,and Messrs. Ca-
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OP CONGRESS.
Smatb.]
Proceedinga.
[M*i«cB,1796.
BOT, Ellswoktb, and Rosa, were appointed
theieon.
. A message from ihe House of Representatives
informed tne Senate that the House baye passed
a bill, entitled " An act for the relief of cerlain
officers and soldiers who have been wounded or
disabled io the actual service of the United States )"
sIeo. a bill, entitled " An act lor the relief of Ben-
jamu Strother,-" to which bills, respectively, they
desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The bills last brought fiom the House of Repre-
aentatives for concurrence were severally read,
and ordered to a second reading.
Monday, February 32.
' The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act for the relief of
Benjamin Strother," was read the second time,
and referred to Messrs. Livermore, Paine, ana
Lahodon, to consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
The bill, sent frobi the House of Representa-
tives for concurrenqp, entitled " An act for the re-
lief of certain officers and soldiers who have been
wounded or disabled in the actual service of the
Cniled States," was read the second lii
referred to Messrs. Ellsworth, Strong, and
Foster, to consider and report thereon to the
flenate.
TuEsnAT, February 23.
Mr. Livermore, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill sent from the House of Re-
presentatives for concurrence, entitled " An act
for the relief of Benjamin Strgther," reported, that
the bill pass without amendment, and the report
was adopted. And, by unanimous consent, the
rule was dispensed with, and the bill read the third
time, .ind passed.
WEnNEBUAY, February M.
Mr. Strono presented the petition of Rufui
Putnam and others, in behalf of the Ohio Com
pany, prayini; for Legislative aid in making usi
of the reserved rights ; which was read, and re
ferred to Messrs. Brown, Cabot, and Ross, u
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
TaoRBDAY, February 25.
The Senate assembled, and, after the eonitidera-
tion of the Biecutire bminetis, adjourned.
Pridat, February 36.
The Vice Prebideht laid before the Senate a
Letter from the Governor of the Stale of Ken-
tucky, with divers papers accompanying the same.
Tne Letter and papers therein referred to were
read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Strong, from the connnittee appointed for
that purpose, on the 17th instant, reported a bill
for the relief of persons imprisoned for debt ; which
wak read the llrst time, and ordered to a second
reading on Tuesday next.
The Vice pRESinENT laid before the Senate a
Letter from Samuel Meredith, Treasurer, accom-
panied by his account of expenditures in tne qnar-
ending the 31st of December last, which was
Ordered, That the Letter and account lie for
Monbav, Februbry S9.
On motion, by Mr. Marsball,
•< That the Letter from the Goremoi of the State of
Kentucky, with divers papers ■ceompanyisg the same,
communicated to the Senate oD the 26th instant, be re-
ferred to m eommittae :"
It was agreed to postpone the consideration of
the motion until to-morrow.
A mes.«aBe from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
n bill, entitled "an act for atlowin? compensatirai
to the members oi the Senate and House of Re-
presentatives of the United States, and to certain
officers of both Houses;" a bill, entitled "An act
for the relief of Jose Roiz Silva ;" a bill, entitled
" An act providing relief, for a limited time, in
certain cases of invalid registers ; and a bill, enti-
tled " An act for the relief of Israel Loring j" in
which several bills they desire the coDcurrence of
the Senate.
The bills last mentioned were severalty read,
and ordered to a second reading.
Toes o AY, March 1.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for eoDcurrence, entitled " An act for the relief of
Israei Loring," wns read the second time, and
referred to Mes-srs. Stronq, Lanqook, and Li-
vermore, to consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act for allow-
ing compensation to the members of the Senate
and HouseofRepresentativesofthe United States,
and to certain officers of both Houses^" was read
the second time, and the consideration thereof
postponed.
Tne bill for the relief of persons imprisoned for
debt, was read a second time; and, after debate,
it was agreed to postpone the further consideration
of this bill.
The foUovring Message was received from the
President of the United States :
Ge»ilemtn of the Senate, and
of the Hotiae of JiepreMenlaiivet .-
The Tieatj of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation,
concluded betwaen the .United States of America and
Hia Britannic Majesty, tiafing bMn duly ntifled, and the
ratiGcatiani having been exchanged at London on the
S8th day of October, !7Bfi, I have dirwtm] the same to be
laomnlgated; and herewith tmnunit a copy Ihervoflbr
the information of Congress.
G. WASHINGTON.
Uhttid Statis, JUvtA 1, 1796.
The Message wa.t re .d, and ordered to lie on
the table.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Proceeding:
[SsNAn.
Wbdnesdat, March 2.
Mr. Stbon& Trom the coramitlee to whom was
referred the bill, sent from .the House of Repre-
senuttives for coacarreDce, entitled "An act for
the relief of Israel Loring," repotted that the bill
pass withoat amendmeDt. Andj by unanimous
cooseui, the rale was dispensed with, and the bill
was read the third time, and passed.
Tbe1)iU, sent from the House of Represi
lires for concnrrence, entitled " An act providmg
relief, for a limited time, in certain cases of invalid
rasters," was read the second time, and ordered
to a third reading.
The hill, sent from the House of Representa
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act Jorthe re
lief of Jose Roiz Silva," was read the second lime
and referred to Messrs, Kino, Ellbwobth, am
Bbadpord, to consider aad report thereon to (hi
The Senate resumed the consideration of thL
motion, made on the 29lh of February, respecting
the Letter and papers from the Governor of ihi
State of Kentucky ; and
Ordered, That they be referred to Messrs. Lt
TERMOHE, Robs, Kino, Rotherfdrd, and Strong
to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
A messwe from the House of Representatives
informed the Senmte that the House agree to wme,
and dintgree toother amendments of the Senate
to the bill, ehiitled " Ad act for establishing trading
houaes with the Indian tribes."
Thdrbdav, Much Z.
Mr. BuBH attended to-day.
The Senate proceeded to the consideration of
their amendmenLs disagreed to by the Houte of
Representatives, to the bill, entitled "An act for
establishing trading houses with the Indian tribes."
Resolved, That they insist on their said amend-
ments.
The bill, sent from the House of Represenla-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act proTiding
leliel^ for a limited time, in certain " ■" '
Ud registers,""" m-A ii.- ti,;_j .:„
"■ . -E^.LiLEis, nds read the third time, and passed.
_ The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, ealiiled " An act ior allow-
ing compensation to the members of the Senate
and House of Representatives of the United Slates,
and to certain officers of both Houses," waa read
the second tirae ; and aAer agreeing to an amend-
ment.
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill for the relief of persons imprisoned for debt.
On motion to amend the bill in the second sec-
tion by inserting the word '■persons," in lieu of the
words " Justices of the Peace ;" it was determined
w the affirmative— Yeas 23, nays 1, as follows :
^«u. — MeMt>. Binghwu, Bloodworth, Bradftird,
"y^ Cabot, EUnviHth, Forter, Uanry, King, Lug-
•w. Ltdner, Linmoi*, Muon, Puoa, Poin, Robin-
•^ KoM, RoUuiAud, Stmii^ ThbwbU, Tnunbnll,
''uung, ud Wahon.
Mr- MartiB «(it^ in tenecatiw.
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
Mr. Mabok presented the memorial of Bichard
Claiborne praying that such encouragemen: may
be granted to original, procurers of inventions, be-
ing Americans, as may be thought eipedient;
wnich memorial was read, and ordered to tie on
the taUe.
Fbiday, March 4,
The bill for the relief of persons imprisoned for
debt, was read the third time, and pa^ed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives far concurrence, enlilled "An act for allow-
ing compensation to the members of the Senate
and House of Representatives of the United States,
and to certain officers of both Houses," was reads
third time, and passed.
MoNUir, March 7.
A message from the House of R^resentatives
informed the Senate that the House bave passed
a bill, entitled " An act makins a partial appro-
priation for the support of the Military BstaMish-
ment, for the year one thousand seven hundred
and ninety-six," in which they desire the con-
currence of the Senate.
The bill kst broi^ht from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence was read, and ordered
to a second reading,
ToESDAV, March S.
The Vicd pREBiDEHT communicated a Letter
from Oliver Bllswortb, in which he states that
he hath accejited the appointment of Chief Jns-
ticeof.the United States,which, of course, vacates
his seat in the Senate; which Letter was read,
and ordered to lie on file.
The hill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act making a
partial appropriation for the support of the Mili-
tary EstablishHLeBl for the year one thousand se-
ven hundred and ninety-six," was read the second
time, and, by unanimous consent, the rule was dis-
pensed with, and the bill was read the third time,
id passed.
Mr, RuTBERruRn presented the memorial of
Anthony Walton White. Colonel of the first re-
giment of dragoons in the service of the United
States, praying the reimbursement of a sum of
money advanced to his command in the year 1780;
and the memorial was read, and referred to
Messrs. Sthonq, RuTHEBFOBn, and Frelinohdy-
""N, to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The following Message was received from the
Fhesidgnt of the Uniteo States :
Genltemen of the Senate, and
of tie Haute of SepretentaOtiei .•
I send, herewith, for the information of CongieM, On
Tmty conoloded bMwesn the Unilsd StatM and Iha
Dey and Regency of Algiers.
G. WASHINOTOW.
n«nBD Statm, Bbrch 8, 17M.
.d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
9 reftd, and ordered to lie a
Wednesdat, March 9.
Ordered, That the Vice Pbbsioent be request-
ed to notily the Execative of the State of Codd<V'
ticut that Oliver Ellswobtb hath accepted the
appointmeDt of Chief Justice of the United Slates.
and that his teat in the Senate is of course va-
cated.
TRaRsnAr, March 10.
The Senate assembled ; and, on motion, ad-
journed.
Pridav, March U.
Mr. LivEHMORG reported, from the committee
to whom was refertea the Letter of the Governor,
and the memorial of the RcpreaeDtatives of the
State of Kentucky, with the papers accompanying
them ; and ihe report was read, and ordered to lie
cm the table.
Mr. Kino reported, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill entitled " An act for the re-
lief of Jose Roiz Silva,'' that the bill pass; and,
afler debate.
Ordered, That the consideration of this bill be
postponed until Monday next.
Mr. Rose, from the committee to whom was
referred the memorial of the clerks under the Go-
vernment of the United Slates, reported a bill
making an extra allowance to certain clerks in the
public offices, and to the widows of certain de-
ceased clerks; which was read, and ordered to a
second readings
Mr. Sthoko, from the committee to whom was
referred the memorial of Aothooy Wallon White,
reported a bill authorizing the settlement of his
demands against the United States ; which was
lead, and ordered to a second reading.
On motion,
" That a oommitlM be appouited to bring in ■ bill
nviving, fbi a limited tima, the set, entitled " An act
fimiting the tima for pisaenting daims for destroyed
certifiotM of ee)
It was agreed that the n
Monday, March 14.
Mr.LivERMOHE presented the memorial ofCath-
arine Qreeoe, widow of General Greene, praying
the interposition of Coogresa in respect to a de-
cree of the Court of Equity of the State of South
Carolina, obtained by Harris and Blackford, mer-
chants, of Great Briuin, against the heirs of her
late husband ; which was read, and ordered to lie
on the table.
The Vice President laid before the Senate a
Report of the Secretary for the Department of the
Treasury, with a return of exports for the year
ending 30th September, 1795.
The report was read and ordered to lie for con-
•ideration.
On motion,
" That M mtwh of (he naolnlion of the Senata, of the
tenth day of Febmar; i^Mt, ■■ raquires Ihe stBlamenls
tharein mentioned to be reported to the Senate, in the
month of Juiutry, BDniully, and to bs made up to tlie
fint day of October nex t, preceding, be repealed ; and
ihmt the said itsteioenta 1^ report^] to the Senate In
the month of December, annually, and made np to the
first day of October, of the year preceding such
Ttforta:"
It was agreed that the motion lie on the table.
The bilfauthotizi^the settlement of the de-
mands of Anthony Walton White against the
United States, was read a second time ; and, after
debate^
Ordered, That the further consideration of the
bill be postponed.
The bill making an extra allowance to certain
clerks in the public- offices, and to the widows of
certain decc.-i!>ed clerks, was read the second time ;
and. afler debate.
Ordered, That the further consideration of thia
hill be postponed.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
motion, made on the 11th instant, that a commit-
tee be appointed on the subject of destroyed certifi-
cates. Whereupon,
Ordered, That Mr. Kino have permiieion to
introduce a bill reviving, for a limited time, the
act, entitled ''An acilimiting the timerfor present-
ing claims for destroyed certificates of certain
descriptions."
Ordered, That the Secretary of the Senate de-
liver to the Chairman of the Committee of the
House of Representatives, on the subject of
Weights and Measures, the Standards transmitted.
by order of the Committee of Public Safety o(
France, to the President of the United States,
and, with his Message, transmitted to Congress,
during the last session.
The Senate resumed the second readiogof the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives, for
concurrence, entitled: ''An act for the relief of
Jose Roiz Silva."
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
The Senate proceeded to the consideration of
the report of the committee, to whom was refer-
red the letter of the Governor, and the memorial
of the Representatives, of the Slate of Kentucky,
with the papers accompanying them ; and, afler
debate.
Ordered, That the further consideration there-
of be postponed until to-morrow.
, March IS.
Oenllemen oj
House of RepreMtntative* .•
By the ninth aection of the act, entitied " An act to
provide a Naval Armament," itiienxcted, "Tbatjifa
peace shaulil take place between Ihe United Btatei and
the Regency of Algien, that no farther proceedings be
had under this act"
The peace which ii ben contemplatad having tidkm
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mahch, 1796.]
[Senate.
pUts, it u incumbnil Dpon the EiecntiTC to ■oapend
•il aider* ro^iecliiiB the buDding of the higtiea, pro-
curing iDateri>l< Idt tbetn, or prepuing materiala d-
nadj obtaiiMd, whidi loaj be done witboat entrench-
JDg upon contnuTta and igTeeinenta, made uid entered
mt« bebia tbia erent.
Bat, inumuch u the loaa whidi the public wonid
inenr mt^t be conaidereble, ftmn the dianpition of
workmen, from ceitun works or opentioni being lud-
denlj dropped or left unfiniihed, and ftom the deranga-
tberefbre thought adTuaUe, before taking nich a itep,
to nibmit the labject to the Senate and the Home of
ReprearatatiTce, that aoch meunna ma; be adopted, in
the premiaea, aa maj beat comport with the public
intsreat.
G. WASHINGTON.
Uhitbd Statu, l^rek IS, 1796.
The Message wan read and ordered to lie for
consideration.
The bill Eent from the Honae of Representa-
tives, for concurrence, entitled "An act for the
reLef of JoseRoiz SilTa,"wa<i read the third time,
and passed.
Mr. Strokq. frora the comrailteeta whom was
referred the bill, entitled '' An act for the relief of
certain officers and soldieTs,who hare been wound-
ed or disabled in the actual serrice of the United
States," reported that the bill pass wiihoot amend
ment; whereupon, the bill was ordered to a third
The second reading of the bill authorizing
settlement of the demands of Anthony f^lton
White, against the United Stales, was resumed .
and, on theqnestian to agree to the enacting clause
in the bill, it passed in tne negative. So the hill
was, rejected.
On motion, it was agreed that the motion made
yesterday, respecting returns from the Depart-
ment of Treasury, of imports, exports, and ton-
nage, should be further postponed.
• The Senate resumea the consideration of the
report of the committee, to whom was referred the
letter of the Qovernor, and the memorial of the
Representatives, of the State of Kentucky, with
the papers accomnanyiog them ; and, after de-
bate, th« Senate attjonnied.
Wedhebdav, March 16.,
The Vice pREHinEXT laid before ibe Senate a
Report from the Secretary for the Departtnent of
War, on the case of cerlam invalid pensioners of
the State of MflssBcbusetts; which was read and
ordered to lie for consideration.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act for tho re-
lief of certain officers and soldiers, who have been
wounded or disabled in the actual service of the
Oaited Stales,''wasread the third time, and passed.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill making an extra allowance to certain clerks
io the public offices, and to the widows of certain
deceased clerks; and, having agreed to an amend-
ment, the bill was ordered tu a third reading.
Ordered, Thai the consideration of the report
of the committee, to whom was referred the letter
of the Governor, and the memorial of the Repre-
sentatives, of the Slate of Kentucky, with the pa-
pers accompanying them, be further postponed.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
olion made the 14th instant, respecting the re-
turns from the Department of Treasury, of im-
ports, exports, and tonnage : whereupon,
R^oUed, Thatsomnch of the resolution of the
Senate, of the tenth day of February last, as re-
quires the statements therein mentioned to be re-
ported to the Senate, in the month of January,
annually, and to bemadeuplo the first day of Octo-
ber next preceding, be repealed ; and that the said
statements be reported to the Senate in the month
of December, annually, and made up to the first
day of October,of the year preceJing such reports.
Ordered, That the Message of the Pbebidbnt
)F THE Uniteo States, of the I5th instant, re-
specting the equipment of the frigates, be referred
to Messrs. BiNOHAU, Read, ana Cabot, to con-
sider and report thereon to the Senate.
TnnHSDAY, March 17.
The bill making an extra allowance to certain
clerks in the public offices, and to the widows of
certain deceased clerks, was read the third time.
On motion lo insert the names of William Lam-
bert and Bernard Webb, il passed in the negative.
On motion to strike out " one hundred dollars,"
the provision for the widows of deceased clerks,
for the purpose of insettingalarger sum, iipaued
in the negative.
Regolved, Tnat this bill pass ; that it be engross-
ed ; and that the title thereof be " An act making
an extra allowance to eertitin clerks in the public
offices, and to the widows of certain deceased
Mr. BiNOBAD reported, from the committee to
whom was referred the Message of the PaEBi-
DENT OETBE United STATEBiOfthe 15lh inslaut,
respecting the equipment of the frigates. The re-
port was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
The Senate resumed the consideration of (he
report of [he committee to whom was referred
(he letter frora the Giovernor, and the memorial of
the Representatives, of the State of Kentucky,
with the papers accompanying them, which is as
follows :
"That the Tepnaentstivea of the freemen of Ken-
tucky itate, in their manMRial, that, in Febmary, 1796,
Appeal!,) in which they uy that Hnmphrey Marshall
had a loit in chaitcny, in the said Court of Appeals,
abjGoOgIc
fflSTOBT OF CONGRESS.
Sbnate.]
Proceedings.
[MAf
1, 1796.
publication, replied, thM he wii» guilty of P01J017 in hia
nuswet to the liiU in chancer;, exhibited agunat him
by James Wilkinson, and that they would plead jusli-
flcation to any suit brought againHtthem therefor- That
no andi anit, as the said ReproKntRtives coald learn,
had been bron^l. The said RepreseDtatireB liirther
•ay, that they do not mean to giie an opinion on the
jOBtioe of the nid charge, but reqaeet that an inTeati-
gMion msy inunediately l^e place relative thereto.
" Your comnuttM obseire that the said rait was tried
■ightam montha betaie Mr. Marshall was choaMi a
member of the Senate, and that, previona to hii elec-
Ijan, mutual accusations had tslien place between him
and the Judgea of the said Court, relating to the same
" The RejMwseatBtiies of Kentucky have not fumiahed
any copy of Mr. Marshall's answer on oath, nor have
the; staled any part of the testimony, or produced an;
of the said records or documents, or the copy of any
paper, in the cause, nor have thev intimated a de-
dgn to bring forward thoee or any other proofs.
"Your coramitleeare informed, by the other Senator
•nd two Hepreseatalivei in CoiigreBS, from Kentncky,
that they heie not been requested bj Ae Legislature
of that State to prosecute this intjuiry, end that they are
not possessed of any evidence in the ease, and that they
believe no person ia autfaonied to appear on behalf of
the Legislatnre.
" Mr. Manhall is soIidtouB that a full investigation of
the subject should lake place in the Senate, and urges
the principle that consent lakes away error, as apply-
ing on ttna occasion, to give the Senate jiursdiction;
but, as no person appears (o pnteecute, and there is no
evidence adduced to the Senate, nor even a specific
charge, the cotnmitlee think anyfiuthei inquiry by the
Senate would be improper. If diere were no objectionB
of this sort, the committee would still be of opinion
that the menoiial cooldnot be suaiained. They think
that, in a ease oflhia kind, no peraon can be held to an-
■wer for an iniamoua crime, unless on a praaentmenl
01 indictment of a grand jury, and that, in aU such pros-
ecutions, the accused ought to be tried by an impartial
iuiy of the State and diaCrict wherein the ertme shall
bave been committed. If, in the present case, the par-
tj has been guilty in the manner suggested, no reason
has been alleged, by the memorialists, why he has not
long since been tried in the State and district where be
committed the offence. Until be is legally convicted,
the principles of the Constitution and of the common
law concur in presuming thaChe is innocenL And the
committee arc compelled, by a sense of justice, to de-
clare, that, in their opinion, this presumption in favor
of Mr. Marshall is not diminished by die recriminat-
ing publications of two men, who take no pains to con-
ceal their personal resentment against him.
" Whatever motives induced the Legislature of Ken-
tacky to call the alUnlion of the Senate to the sbove
BBOtioned publicatioaa, the committee are of opinion
that, as the Constitutton does not give jurisdiction to
the Senate, the consaat of the par^ cannot give it, and
llwt,thereibre, the said memorial aQght to be diamissed."
On motion to postpone the consideration of (he
report unijl lo-morrowj it passed In the iregalive,
and, after debate, on motion to reconsider the
question for postponement, it passed in the ne-
On motion to ex))uaKe all the words from '^ if in
the present case," inclusive, to the end of the re-
port, a moltoQ was made to amend the part pro-
posed to be struck out by expunging these words:
" of two uien who take no pains to conceal their
persoaal resentmeac," and it was agreed that thia
motion was not in order.
A motion was made to divide the original mo-
tion for striking out, and retain the words from
" if in the present case," inclusire, to the word,
"innocent," at the endof the first paragraph; and,
after debate, the Senate adjourned.
Frioav, Match 18.
Mr. ViNlMQ presented the petition of Charies
King and others, citizens of the State of Delaware,
praying the establishment of an office to license,
enily placed than at Wilmington ; which petition
was read, and referred to Messrs. Vtning, Hbnrt,
and BiNOHAH, to consider and report thereon 10
the Senate.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
letter from the Governor, and the memorial of the
Representatives of the State of Kentucky, with
the papers accompaayins ibem, together with the
motion made thereon, and imder debate yesterday ;
and a motion was made to amend the motion by
expungins from the report all that follows the
words '' tne memorial could not be sustained."
And, after debate, the Senate adjourned.
March 19,
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
letter from the Governor, and the memorial of the
Representatives of the State of Kentucky, with
the papers accompauying them ; also, the motion
made thereon, and under debate yesleiday, to-
gether with the motion for amendment, by ex-
punging from the report all that follows the wordi
" the memorial could not be sustained ;" and ^
motion was made to posipoue the report, and the
motions made thereon, and to take into considera-
tion the following resolution :
" Whareas the honorable the Legislature of the State
of Kentucky have, by their memorial, transmitted by
the Qovemor of said Slate, informed the Senate that
Humphrey Marahall, a Senator &om the said Blate,
bad been publicly charged with the crime of peijuty,
and requested that an inquiry might be thereupon in-
stituted, in which request the said Humphrey Manhall
has united ; and it being highly interesting, aa well to
the honor of the said Stale as to that of the Senate, and
an act of justice due to the character of the said Hum-
phrey Marshall that such inquiry should be bad : Iheie-
■■ lUaahed, That the Senate wilt proceed to the ex-
amination of the said charge on the day of the
next session of Congress ; that, tn the opinion of the
Senate, a conviction or acquittal in the ordinary courts
of justice of the said State would be the most satia&c-
tor; evidence on this occasion i but that, if this should
not be attainable, by reason of any act of limitation or
other legal impedhnent, such other evidence will be re-
CMved aa the namre of the case may admit and require
,db,Googlc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
M*RCH. 1796.]
Proceedinga.
" Bfohtd, That the Vice Freadent be requested to
tranimEt ■ copy of the Ibregtuiif tevolntion to the Go-
Temar of the aid 6uie."
Aiui, after debate, the Senate adjourned.
MoNDAT, Much 21.
A message from the Hou«e of Representatives
mformed lEe Senate that the House have pa.^sed
a bill, eutilled " Ad act auihorLzing and directiog
the Secretary of War to place ceriaiu persoos
therein aamed on the pension list ;" aod a " RsbO-
lutioQ directing further returns in the cases of
claimants for invalid pensions ;" in vbicb bill and
reiolutioa they desire the concurcence of the Se-
The Senate resumed the coosidentioa of the
motion, made on the 19th instant, to postpone the
report of the comniiitee to whooi was referred the
letter from the Governor, and the memorial of
the Representatives of the Slate of Kentucky,
with the papers accompanying them, together
with the motioBs of ameiHlment made thereon, in
order to coiuider the following resolution :
" Whmu the hoDonble the LBgulatnre of the Stale
gf Kentucky hare, bj their menuniai, tnnamittnl bj the
Goremoi of the Hid State, inlbrmed the Senate that
Humphrey Minhall, » Senator &om the said Slala, h&d
been publicly charg^ with the crime of peijury, and
icquesied that in inquiry niight be thereupon injititut-
ed, in wluch requcat the said Humphrey Manhall hai
Halted ; and it being highly inteteiting, as well to tlw
henor of the (aid State as to that of the Senate, and an
■ct of justice due to theebaracler of the said Humphrey
Harahall that such tnquiiy should be had : iLeietore,
" Raohed, That the Senate will pioceed to the ex-
■mioation of the said charge an the day of the
leit sesuon of Congren ; that, in the opinion of the
Senate, a conviction or acquittal in the Quinary couiti
oTjiutice of the said State would be the most salisfac-
viry evidence on this occasion ; but that, if this should
not be attainable, by reason of an; act of limitatian or
Mbei legal impediment, such other evidence will be re-
ceived u the natute of the case may admit and require.
" Itaolved, That the Vice President be requested to
tnnimit a copy of the tbregoing resolution to 'im C!o-
•nnor of the said State."
And, on the questioo for postponement, it pass-
ed in the negative — yeas 7, nays 17, as follows ;
Yiiii. — Measrt. Bloodworth, Bronn, BuiT, Lang-
doQ, Mason, Robinson, and Tazewell.
N'lti. — Measrs. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Foster,
FrsUnghnysen, Gunn, Heuiy, Latimer, Livermore,
Martin, Paine, Read, Boss, I^therlurd, Strong, Trum-
bull, and Vinijig.
TtTEflDAV, March 22.
The bill sent from the House of RepreMotaiives
for concurreoee, entitled "An act authorizing and
Uieeting the Secretary of War to place certain
Persons ihereiit named on the pension list," was
lead, and ordered to a second reading.
Tne resolution directing further returns in the
^■ses of claimants for invalid pensions, was read,
and ordered to lie for consideration.
, A message from the House of Representative*
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled " An act to continue in force 'An
act foraacertaininglhe fees in Admiralty proceed-
ings in the District Courts of the United States,
jnd for other purposes;" and a bill, entitled, "An
act for the relief of Henry Messonnier ;" in which
bills ihey desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The hills last mentioned were read, and ordered
to a second reading.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
letter from the Governor, and the latafloiJal of the
Representatives of the State of Kentucky, with
the papers accompauyiJiig theto.
On the question to expunge these words: "if
there were no objeetiona of this sort, the commit-
tee would still be ol* opinion that the ntemorial
could not be sustained," it passed in the negative
On the question toexpunge the following words:
" They think that in a case of this kind no person
can be held to answeF for an in&mous ciime unless on
a piesentment or indictment of a grand Jury, and that
in all such prosecutions the accused Ought to be tried
by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein
the crime shall have been committed. If in the present
case the party has been guilty, in the manner suggested,
no reason has been alleged why he has not long since
been tried in the Slate and district where he committed
the ofience. Until he is legally convicted, the princi-
ples of the ConBtilutiDn and of the cotumoo Law concur
in presuming that he is innoccnl :"
It passed in the negative.
On motion, it was aereed to amend the next
paragraph, to read as foUows :
" And the committee are compelled, by a sense of
justice, to declare that, in their opinion, this presump-
tion In bvor of Mr. Marshall is not diminished by le-
cruninating pubLcationi, which msnifest strong resent-
ment against him."
And on the question to expunge the paragraph,
as amended, it pa^ed in the negative.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the last
clause of the report to read as follows:
" And &tej are also of opinion dial, as the Constitn-
lion does not give jurisdiction to the Senate, the consent
of the party cannot give it ; and that, therefore, the said
memorial ought to be dismissed."
On motion to eixpunge the clause last agreed to
be amended, it passed in the negative — yeas 7,
nays 16, as follows ;
Yiu. — Messrs. Bloodworth, Bmr, Lsngdon, Martin,
Mason, Robinson, and Tazewell.
Nais.— Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Foetcr,
Fralinghuysen, Ounn, Hann, Latimer, Livsimore,
Paine, Read, Ross, Rntherjunj, Stnmg, Trumbull, a^
Mr. Brown requested and was excused from
voting on the question.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the last pa-
ragraph hut two of the report, besinniog with the
words, " If in the present case," by inserting the
words "by the memorialists," after the word ''•l-
On the question to adopt the report,
ed, it passed in theaffirmativfr— yeaslfi.nays 8
;dbvG00gle
fflSTOBT OF CONGRESS.
Sbkatc]
[March, 1796.
Ti«i.—M«Hn. Binghun, Bitdbrd, Cabot, FoMci,
PraUnghujMiii Onnn, HeniTi Lktimer, Livennorc,
Paisr, Read, Rom, Rulherfurd, Stmiig, TnunbuU, and
NiTi. — Mfwim. BloodwOTtb, Brown, Bntr, Langdon,
Mutin, Mhoii, Robiiuon, and TaieneU.
So the report vas adopted, as follows:
" Hie cotninitM ta whom were refbrred the letter of
the OoiemoT, and the memorial of the Reprc«enta-
tives of Kentud^, with the papera accompanying
them, report :
" Thlt the Representativaa of the freemen of Kan-
tnekj >ti.te, in their memorial, th*t, in February, 1796, a
pamphlet wu published by Geoige Klitei and Benja-
min Sebastian, (who were two Judges of the Conit of
Amwak.) in which they aay tliat Humphnr Marshall
hM a luit in chancery in the laid Cooit al Appeals, in
which it appearing manifeat, from the oath of &e com-
plainant, from diaiDtereited teatimony, from recorda,
Bom document! fiimiahed b; himpelf, and from the con-
tradictions contained in his own answer, that he had
committed a groea fraud, the Court gave a decree
against him ; and (hat, in the coune of the inTestiga-
called for a speci£cation of the charge; to wliich thi
said George Mnter and Benjamin Sebastian, in a like
publication, replied, that he waa guilty ofpeijury in his
answer to the bill in chancery exhibited against him by
James Wilbinaon, and that they would plead justifica-
tion to any suit brought against them therefor. That
DO BDch anit, aa the said RepresentatiTes could leam,
had bean brought. The said Representalivei further
say, that they do not mean to give an opinion on the
justice of the said charge, but request that an investiga-
tion ma; immediately tahe place relative thereto.
" Your committee obeerre that the said suit was tried
eighteen laonths before Mr. Marshall waa chosen a
member of the Senate, and that, previous to his elec-
tion, mutual accus^ons had taken place between him
and the Judges of the said Court, relating to the same
"The Kepresentatives of Kentucky hate not (ui-
niahed any copy of Mr. Marshall's answer on oath, nor
have they stated any part of the testimony, or produced
any of the said records or docnmenta, oilhecopy of any
paper, in the caose, nor have they intimated a design to
bring forward ^ose or any other prooft.
** Your committee are informed by the otjier Sena-
torand the two Representatives in Congress from Ken-
lucky, that they have not Ifeen requested by the Legis.
htnre of that Stale to prosecute this inquiry, and Sm
Ihay are not possessed of any evidence in the esse, and
that they beheve no person is autboriied to appear on
bdialfof the Legislature.
" Mr. Manhall is solicitous that a Ml investigation of
the subject should take place in the Senate, and urges
m principle that consent tabes away error, ss applying,
on this occasion, to give the Senate jurisdiction; but,as
no person appears to prosecute, and their is no evidence
adduced to the Senate, nor even a speciGc charge, the
committee think any further inquiry by the Senate
would be impreper. Iftheie were no objectjons of thii
sort, the committee would still be of opinion that the
memorial could not he sustained. They think '* '
a case of tliis kind, no person can bo Jield to an
•n inbmouB crime, nnless on a presentment or indict.
ment of a grand jury, and that, in all msA prosecu-
tions, the accused ou^t to ba tried by an impartial jury
of the Slate and district wherein the crime shall havs
been committed. If, in the present case, the party boa
been guilty in the manner suggested, no reason baa
been sUeged by the memorialists why he has not long
since been tri^ in the Stale and district where he com-
mitted the offence. Until he is legally convicted, the
principles of the Conslituluni and of the common law,
concur in presuming that he is innocent. And the
committee are compelled, by a sense of justice, to de-
clare that, in their opinion, the presumption in bvor ot
Mr. Maiahall is not diminished by tlw recriminating
puUications, which manifest strong resentment against
sent of the party cannot give it ; and that, theiebre, the
said memona] ought (o be dismissed."
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
The report of the committee to whom was te-
feiredlhe communi cation from the PREeiDEHT op
THE UniTEn STaTES. on the subject of the Naval
AimameDt; was read, u follows :
" That it is the opinion of the committee it will be
expedient to authorize the President of the United States
to cause lo be completed, with all convenient expedi-
tion, two of the said frigates of foity-fbur, and one of
thirty-sii guns.
" That a discretionary power be committed to the
President of the United Stales to cause the others to he
finished, having a due regard to the exisling price of la-
bor and materials.
" That so much of the sum of six hundred and eighty-
eight thousand eight hundred and eigbty-eigbt dol-
lars and thirty-two cents, as, by the act of June, 1794,
waa appropriated lo p» the expenses lo be incurred by
the act to provide a Naval Armament, remains unex-
pended, aa well as so much of the sum of eighty thou-
sand dollars, appropriated for a provinonsl equipment
of galleys, by the hefiwe-recited act, be appropnated for
carrying into effect the piovisiona of the aforesaid reso-
Whereupon, ii was ordered, that the commiitea
be instructed to bring in a bill conformable to the
report of (he commillee.
-, March 23.
Mr. Bingham, fmm tbe committee instructed
to that purpose, reported a bill suppleEQeiilary to
an act, enlttled " An act to proviae a Naval Ar-
mament;" which was read, and ordered to sea-
coo d reading.
Tbe bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act for the relief of
Henry Measonnier," was read the second time, and
referred to Messrs. BsAnroBD, BiNOHaM, and Frb-
LiHaHDVSEN, to Consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
Tbe Vice PaESiDEKT laid before the Senate a
Report from the Secretary of War, of the claims
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
HiBcB, 1796.]
[SEf
nmdrr p&pers ; which were read, aad ordered to
lie for eoQtideralion.
Order^, That Messrs. Martin, Livermore,
ind Blood WORTH J be a commiltee to bring io a
bitl makiDg certain provisions in regard to the
Circuit Court for the District of North Carolina.
The bill, sent from the House of Represenla-
tives for coDcurrence, entitled "An act to continue
in force an act 'for ascertaining the fees in Ad-
miraltr proceedings in the District Courts of the
Uaited States, and for other purposes." was read
the second time, and ordered to a third reading.
T HUBS DAY, March S4.
Mr. Martin, from the committee instructed to
that purpose, reported a bill making certain pro-
risioDs in reK>rd to the Circuit Court for the dis-
trict of North Carolina; which •was read, and, by
uiianimona consent. thf> mlt> was dispensed with,
And the bill was read the secoud aod third tiiaes,
and paawd.
A message from the House of Represents tives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
■ bill, entitled "An act for the relief of George
Snowel Jackson," and a hill entitled "An act de-
claring the consent of Congress to a certain,
of the State of Maryland, and to continue an
declarini; the assent of Congress to certain acts
of the States of Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode
Island and Providence Plantations, so far as the
the same respects the States of Georgia and
Rhode Island and Proridence Plantations;" in
which bills they desire the concurrence of the
Senate.
The bills last mentioned were read, and ordered
to a second reading.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act to continue
ui force an act 'for ascertaining the fees in Ad-
miralty proceedines in the District Courts of the
United States, ana for other purposes," was read
the third time, and amended.
Besolved, That thin bill pass as amended.
On motion, by Mr. Mason, it was agreed to re-
consider the vote passed the 13th instant, on the
second reading of the bill antboriaing the settle-
ment of the demands of Anthony '^^ton White
against the United Stales, and that the bill be still
coDtidere^ as in its second readings
Pbidav, March 25.
The bill supplementary to an act, entitled "An
■ct to provide a Naval Armament," was read the
Mcond time, and amended.
Ordavd, That this bill pass to the third reading.
The following Message was received from the
PaEBinENT OP TBB Unitbd States :
ItKltemen of tfu SenaU, and
of Ine Houtt of Reprttenlativet :
I Mnd herewith, fbr jour inibniiktioD, the tiansUtian
■ft Letm- fram th« Minister Plenipotentiary of the
"BKh RepubLc to the Secretary of Stale, announcing
^ ptiM niftda by the Republic with ibe ICingi ol
Pnaia and epwi, the Grand Dnke of TuKany, and
the Landgrave of Hene Casael; and that the repub-
lican Conititution, decreed by the National Conven-
tion, had been accepted by the people of France, and
opeiBtiou. I eJeo send you a copy of the an-
swer given, by my direction, to this communication
from the French Minister. My aentimenta, therein ei-
preeaed, I un persusded will haimoniiB with yoon, and
with thoae of all my lellow-citiienB.
G. WABfflMGTON.
UniTiD Statii, March 3«, 17tM.
The Message and papers therein referred to
were read, and ordered to lie for consideration.
Mr. Brown presented the memorial of Ebene-
-ji Zane, praying liberty to locate such military
bounty lands, lying at the crossing of certain
rivers, mentioned in the said memorial.as may he
necessary to. enable him to establish ferries and
rn a road through the Territory Northwest of
Ohio to the State of Kentucky ; which me-
morial WHH read.
Ord&^ed, That it be referred to Messrs. Browm,
Ross, and LivBBuoBB, to consider and report
thereon to the Senate.
MoNUAV, Mirch 2S.
The bill supplementary to an act, entitled "An
act to provide a Naval Armament," was read the
third time, and passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act authoriz-
ing and directing the Secretary (^ War to place
certain persons therein named on the pension
list," was read the second time, and referred to
Messrs. Tazewell, Stronq, and TaoManLt., to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
Ordertd, TMt the " resolution directing far-
ther returns in the cases of claimants for invalid
pensions," be referred to the last-mentioned com-
mittee, to consider and report ibereou to the Se-
The bill, sent Irom the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act for the re-
lief of^^orge Knowel Jackson," was read the
second time, and referred to the last-mentioned
committee, to consider and report thereon to the
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act declaring
the consent of Congress to a certain act of the
State of Maryland, and to continue an act declar-
ing the assent of CoiigTeBS to certain acts of the
Stales of Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode Island
and Providence Plantations^ so far as the same
respects the States of Georcia and Rhode Island
and Providence Plantationss'' was read the second
time, and referred to Messrs. Hbnrv, BaAnpoRO,
TCEBOAY, March 29.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled "An act far the relief and protec-
tion of American seamen," in which they desire
the concurrence of the Senate.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF C0NGHES8.
Sbhatb.]
Proceeiiingt.
Mr. Fbelinqhiivbem preseated the memorial of
Stephen Say re, praying compensation for his lime
and services as Secretary, acting under the Coui-
missioners at Versailles, in the year one thousand
seven hundred aijd seveaty-sevea; which memo-
rial was read, and ordered to lie ou the table.
The bill last brought from the House of Repre-
sentatives fut concurrence was read, and ordered
to a secDod reading.
Mr. Tazewell reported from the committee to
whom was referred the bill, seat from the Hoiise
of Representatives for concurrence, entitled "An
act for (he relief of George Knowel Jachson ;" and
the report was adopted. Whereupon,
Re»olved, That this bill do not pass.
Tbe following Message was received from the
.Pbesidemt or the Uhitbq States:
Otntlemen of the Senate ;
I lend heiewilh * copy at the Treonr of Friendship,
Limits, and Navigation, between the United 81«t«a and
Hii Ckthalic Majesty, which has been ratified by me,
with jour advice and consent. A copy ol the Treaty
will be immediately commnnicaled to the Honoe of Re-
pieaentatives ; it being necessary to make provision, in
the preaent Beadon, for canying into execution the third
and twenty-flrn articles, pKttJi^lariy the farmer ; seeing
of Congress.
Eatimales of the moneys nncnisnij to be provided fi>r
the purpeaea of this and sevfral other TnaUes with fo-
reign natioDs and the Indian trilxa, will be laid before
fou by the proper Depaitment,
G. WASHINGTON,
The Message was read, and ord^ed to lie for
consideration.
Mr. BHAoroRD reported, from the committee to
whom was referred the bill, sent from the Mouse
of Representatives for concurrence, entitled "An
act for the relief of Henry Messonnier," that the
bill do not pa«.
Ordered, That the report lie until to-morrow
for consideration.
We ONES DAT, March 30
The bill, s«it from the House of Representa-
tives for coDcurrence, entitled "An act for the re-
lief and protection of American seamen," was read
the second time. On motion, that the bill be re-
ferred to a committee, it passed in the negative.
Ordered, That this bill lie on the table.
Mr. Cabot, from tbe committee, reported a bill
to reouUle the Mint of the United States, and to
punish frauds by counterfeiting the coins thereof,
or otherwise ; which was read, and ordered to a
second reading.
TnunaDAr, March 31.
Mr. LivERMORE reported, from the committee
to whom were referred the Message from the Pre-
aiDEHT OP THE UniTEn Stateb of the 89th of Ja-
nuary last, with the papers accompanying the
same—
" That the laws and Joumals of the respective
Titoriee of the United Statee Northwert and Southwert
of tl
red, should lie fer coiuidetalian. And ll
the State of Rhode Island, ratifying an amendment to
the Constitution, reepecting the euabih^ of a Slate;
also, ui act of North CaroUim, to the ume ethti,; and
act at the same State, ceding the Jniisdictian of Shell
Castle Island, ibr the purpose of erecting a beacon, be-
ing the residue of the said papera referred, shoold lie
tor the infbrmatian of the 6«iate."
The report was read.
FRinAY, April 1.
A message from the House of Rej^esentatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
uilli entitled "An act authotiziog a loan lor tbe
use of tbe City of Washington, in the District of
Columbia, and for other purposes therein men-
tioned ;" a bill, entitled "An act authorizing the
of a light-house on Baker's Island, in tbe
State of Massachusetts;" and a bill, entitled ''An
irovide for the widows and orphans of eer-
iceis who have died of wounds, received
ervice of the United States, since the fourth
of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-
which bills, severally, they desire the
concurrence of the Senate.
The bills last brought from tbe House of Re-
presentatives for concurrence were read, and or-
dered to a second reading.
The Vice pREeiDEKT laid before the Senate a
Letter from the Hon. Oliver Wolcoit, Lieutenant
Governor of the Stale of Connecticut, in answer
to the notification from the Senate that the seat
of the Hon. Uliver Ellbwortb is vacated by
his appointment to the office of Chief Justice;
which letter was read, and ordered to lie on file.
Mr. Cabot, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill to regulate the compensation of
clerks, reported amendments; which were read,
and ordered to lie for consideration.
Mr. Brown, from the committee lo whom was
referred the memorial of Kbeoezer Zane, made a
report; which wasread,and ordered tolie for con-
sideration.
The Vice PRKainENT laid before the Senate k
confidential communication from the Secretary
of the Department of Slate, with sundry esti-
mates referred to in the Message of the PREaii>EiiT
OP THE United States of the 39th of March
last ; which were read, and ordered to \'.e for con-
sideration.
Monday, April 4.
Tbe bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act authorizing
a loan for the use of the City of Washington, in
the District of Columbia, and for other purposes
therein mentioned," was read the second lime, and
referred to Messrs. Kino, Henbv, and Tazewell,
10 consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled ■' An act to provide '
for the widows and orphans of certain officeta who
have died of wounds received in the service ot
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
AFaI^ 1796.]
[Semati:.
the United Btatei, nnee die 4tli of March, ode
thousand seven bundled and ei^htv-nine," was
read ihe sectHKJ time, and refeTred to Messrs.
Stroho, HE/(BT,and Liverhore, to consider and
report thereon to the Senate.
The Vice Prebideht laid before the Senate an
tbstiact from the Department of Treasury, to the
3d instant, of the compeosations of certain officers
employed in the collection of the duties of impiat
■nd tonnage ; which was read, and ordered to he
for consideration.
The bill, sent from the House of Repreaeata-
tJTCs for concurrence, entitled " An act author-
izing the erection of a light-house on Baker's
Island, in th« State of Massachusetts," was read
tbe second and third times, and passed. ■
The Senate resumed (he second reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
concurrence, entitled " An act for the relief and
protection of American seamen;" and, ailer de-
bate, the Senate adjonrned.
Tdesday, April 5.
The Senate resumed the sectmd reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
cDocUTTence, entitled " An act far the relief and
protection of American seamen."
A motion was made to expunge the 6nt sec-
tion ; and, on motion to postpone the considera-
tion of this motion, it pawed in the affiimatire.
And it was agreed Co postpone the further consi-
deration of the bill until Tnursdav next.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House insist on their
disagreement to sundry amendments of the Sen-
ate to the bill, entitled *' An act for establishing
trading houses with the Indian tribes," ask a con-
ference thereou, and have appointed managers at
the same on their oart.
The Senate tooK into consideration the resolu-
tion of the House of Representatiyes, insuitine on
Ihrir diaagreeraent to simdry amendments of the
Senate to the bill, mtitled ''An act for eatabliah-
ioB trading hanses with the Indian tribes," and
asking a conferettce thereon.
Ruoteed, That the Senate agree to the pro-
tmed coiif«rencfc «nd that Messrs. Rohb and Kino
be managera at tne game on dieir part.
The ^nate ]»oceedetl to the conMderation of
the report of the committee to whom was referred
the bul to r^^late the compensation of clerks,
and Iwving agreed thereto, uid amended the bill
accordingly, it was read the third time, and parsed.
Wednebday, April 6.
thorizing and directing the Secretary of War to
t^ace certain persons therein named on the pen-
sion list;" which was read, and ordered to lie for
conside ration.
Tbe eoDlmittee to whom was referred the peii-
lioD of Ebcnezer Zane, sUtea-—
" That ttB polilMncr Mti totb, that ha hadi, M «an-
Bidmable tronble and eipeme, explored, and in part
opened, « rend Northwest' of tbs river Ohio, between
Wheeling and Limerione, which, when completed, will
^really contribnte to the acconunodition of the pnblic,
u well ae of iadrndaals. But, Hal eeveral rivers in-
tervening, the ro&d proposed cannot be nsed with safety,
nntil teniea shall be established theison. That the pe-
titioner will engage to have snch ferries erected, pn>-
vided he can obtain a right to the I&nd which is now
the propertj of the United Slates. And therefore prays
Chat he may be authorized to locale, and survey, at Ua
own eipeiiBe, military bounty wamuits, Upon as much
land St Muskingum, Hockhocking, and Sciota liven,
as may be sufficient to support the necessary establish-
ments ; and that the same be granted to him by the
United States.
" That they, having received satis&ctoiy iuGinnation
in support of the above statement, are of opinion that
the proposed road will be of general utili^, that the
petitioner merits encouragement, and that his petition
being reaaonsble, onght to be granted.
" The committee dierefi>re submit the following reao-
"Btaotned, Tliat Ihe petitioD of Ebeneier Zane ia
reaaiHiable; that be be anthoriied to h>cale wananti
granted by the United States tor military services, upon
three bacCs of land, not exceeding one mile aqnare
each, at Muskingmn, Hockhot^ingi and Sdota, where
the proposed road shall eroas those rivets, for Uie pOT^
pooe of establidiing ferries thereon ; and that leave be
given to bring in a iall fin that purpose-
On motion, it was agreed that ibis report be
adopted, and that (he committee who were ap-
pointed on the petition be instructed to bring in a
Dill accordingly.
A roessaee from the House of Representatives .
informed the Senate that the Honse have passed
a bill, entitled " An act providing for the sale of
the lands of the United Stoles in the Territory
Northwest of the river Ohio, and above the mouin
of Kentucky river ;" in which they desire the con-
currence of the Senate.
The bill last meDCioned was read, and ordered
to a second reading.
The Senate proceeded to the consideration of
An act for the relief of Henry
Messonnier." And, after debate, the further con-
sideration thereof was postponed.
Mr. Brown, from the committee instructed for
the purpose, reported a bill to authorize Ebenezer
Zane to locale certain lands in the Territory of
the United .Stales Nonfawcst of the river Ohio ;
whitih was read, and ordered 10 a aecond reaiinjf,
Tbursdat, April T.
The bill to aathoriae Ebenezer Zane to locate
certain lands in the Territory of the United Stotes
Northwest of the river Ohio, was considered.
Ordered, That the second reading of this bill
be the order of the day for Monday next.
"ihe Senate resaroed the second reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
concurrence, entitled " An act for the relief and
protection of American seamen."
On motion, that it be committed, it passed in
the idSnaatir^-^yeaa It, nays 10, as follows :
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGHESS.
Senatb.]
[April, 1796.
I, Bead, RiMB, Stroog, and
Guiin, King,
Trumbull.
NiiB.— Mewn. Bloodwoith, Brown, Burr, Butler,
Langdon, LiTsnoore, Mwtin, Mmou, HcAiiuoD, and
Tuewell.
On motion, that this committee consist of fire
for the sale of the landf of the United StateS;
the Territory Northwest of the rivei Ohio, and
above the mouth of Kentucky river," was read
the second time.
Ordered, That this bill lie for coDsiderttiioD.
The Senate proceeded to the consideTation of
the lepOTt of the committee to whom was referred
the bill, entitled " An act authorizing and direct-
ing the Secreury of War to place cetixia persons
therein named on the pensioii list."
Ordered, That thefucthfrconsiderationthereof
be the order of the day for Monday next.
Fhidat, April 8-
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill, sent from the Hoose of Representatives for
concurrence, entitled " An act providing for the
sale of the lands of (he United States, in the Ter-
ritory Nurthwesi of the river Ohio, und above the
month of Kentucky river."
Ordered, That this bill be referred to Messrs.
■ Robs, Kinq, Brown, Marbball, and Strono, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
Mr. Sthoho, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill sent from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence, entitled " An act to
provide for the widows and orphans of certain
officers who have died of wounds received in'tbe
service of the United States, since the fourth of
March, one thousand seven nundrcd and eighty-
nine, reported amendments; which were read,
and ordered to lie for consideration.
Mr. Roaa reported from the managers on the
part of the Senate, at the conference on the bill,
entitled "An act for establishing trading houses
with the Indian tribes ;" and the report was adopt-
ed, as follows;
" The ntanageca on the put i>f the Senate have con-
fen«d with those on the put of the Honae, and do re-
commend that the Senate recede from their ameud-
tnent* diaagreed to bj the Hooae.
" And that the fifUi gection be amendsd to read u
follow* :
State! be, and he in hereby, authoiiied to draw annually
ftom the Treasury of the United Steles a sum not ex-
ceeding ei^I thoannd doUan, to be applied under bis
direction, for the purpoee of paying the agents and
elerki, vihich agents shall be allowed to draw, out of
the public aupplies, two rationa each, and each clerk ono
" And in aection S, liiw S, aAer the word ' dollan,'
inaert theae worda: 'exdnaive of the aUawanoea la
agent* and clerka.'
'' Section 7, Line 6th, (trite out the worda, ' a aum not
exceeding,' sod ineert ' the •um of "
The Senate resumed the coDsideration of the
report of the committee to whom was Teferred
the bill, entitled " An act for the relief of Henry
Messonnier." Whei«upon,
Retolved, That this bill do not pass.
Monday, April 11.
Geniiemtn of the Senate, and
»/ the House of Bepraattativet ;
By en act of Congreaa paiaed on the 38th of May,
IT»0, it waa declared that the inhalHtants of the Terri-
toiy of the United Statea South of the river Ohio
■bould enjoy all the iwivil^ea, beneftia, andadvantaga^
set finth in the ordinance of Coogceae for the govern-
ment of the Territory of the United Statei Niwthweet
of the river Ohio ; and that th» government of aekl
Territory South of the Ohio ehould be aimilu to thai
which wae then exercised in the Territory Norlhweal
of the Ohio ; except w) fitr aa wa* othervriaa provided
in the eonditiou eiprenad in an act ofCongreM paa*-
ed the 3d of April, 1784, entitled " An act to accept a
Gaanon of the clums of the SUte of North Carolina to
a certain district of Weitem territory."
Among the privilegea, benefite, and advantages, thua
■ecured to the inhafaitanta of the Territory South of the
river Ohio, appear to be the right of forming a perma-
nent Constitution and Stale Government, and of ad-
minioii, as a State, by it* delegate*, into the Congreaa
of the United States, on an equal footing with the
original Slates, in all re*pecls whatever, when it ahould
have therein sixty thousand free inhabitants: Provided
the Constitution and Government so lo be formed
should be Rntublican, and in conlbrmity to the princi-
ples contained in the artidea of the said ordinance.
As prooEi of the aeveral requisites to entitle the Tet^
ritory South of the river Ohio to be admitted, ai a Slata,
into the Union, Oovemor Blount has traaamitted a ro-
tum of the enumeration of its inbatntanta, and a printed
com of the ConalitutiaD and Arm of piveniment <«
nbldl they have agreed; which, with hii lettera aeccmi-
panying the aame, ara herewith laid before Congreaa.
O. WASHINGTON.
UniTBii ST.iTas, April B, 1796.
The Message and paperawere read, and ordered
to lie until to-morrow for consideration.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senaielhat the House have passed
the bill, sent from the Senate for concurrence,
entitled "An act supplementary to an act, enti-
tled ' An act to provide a Naval Armaneni,'' with
amendments : in which they det^ire the concur-
rence of the Senate. They have passed a bill, en-
titled " An act in addition to an art, entitled 'Ad
act making further ptrovision for (he support of
Public Credit, and for the redemption of the Pub-
lic Debt;" in which thev desire the concurrence
of the Senate.
The Senate resumed the cooaideraiion of the
report of the committee to whom was referred
the bill, entitled " An act autborizing and direct-
ed byGoOglc
fflSTOBY OF CONGRESS.
70
ApRI^ 1706-J
[San ATI.
ing the Secretary of W»r lo place certain persoDS
therein named on llie pensioD litt ;" which was
adopted, and the bill amended accordingly.
Ordered, That this bill pus to a thiid reading.
The amendments of the House of Representa-
Ures to the bill, entitled " An act supplementary
10 an act, entitled 'Anact to provide b Naval Ar-
mament," were read, and ordered to lie until to-
morrow for consideration.
The bill, lost brought from the House of Repte-
seutatiTes for concurrence, was read, and ordered
to a second reading.
The 3enate proceeded to the consideretion of
the report of the committee lo whom was referred
the bill, entitled "An act to proTide for the
widows and orphans of certain officers who hare
died of wounds receired in the serrice of the
Uoiied Slates, since the fourth of March, one
ihousaod seven hundred and eightr-nine." And,
iTter debate, the Senate adjourned.
Joan
Tdesday, April 12.
a Tattnall, elected a Senator by the Le-
gslature of the Sute of Georgia, in plue of Mr.
Walion, appointed by the Executive of the said
Slate to succeed Mr. Jackson, produced bis cre-
dentials, and, the oath required by law being ad-
ministered, look his seat in the Senate.
Mr. Hemry. from the committee to whom was
leferrcd the hill, entitled " An act declaring the
consent of Congress to a certain act of the State
of Maryland, and lo continue 'An act, declaring the
issent of Congress to certain acts of the States
of Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode Island and
Providence Plantations,' so far as the same re-
spects the Slates of Georgia and Rhode Island,
ind Proridence Plantations." reported an amend-
ment. which was adopiea, and the bill was
unended accordingly.
The bill was then read the third lime, and
passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " Ad act authoriz-
ing and directing the Secretary of War to place
certain persons therein naiDea on the pensidn
lislj" was read the third time.
On the question to concur in the bill as amend-
ed, it passed in the affirmative — yeas 15, nays 8,
IS follows :
rcis— Mmds. Bkwdworth, Bradford, Buit, Cabot,
FoMn, Prelinghinacn, Gunn, King, Livennore, Mu-
tin, Paine, Re*d, fiobiiuon, Strong and Tnunbull.
^ATi — Mnan. Bingham, Brown, Henry, Manholl,
MsKHi, Row, Rnthnf^ and Tasewell.
Mr. TattnaU eiouail.
So it waa Removed, That this bill pass with
imendmenU.
The Senate resumed the conaidetation of the
"ie>olutioa directing further returns in the cases
o' claimants for invalid pensions;" and
Kttidted, That they do concur therein.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
Rpori of the eommitlee to whom was referred
the bill, entitled "An act to provide for the wi-
dows and orphans of certain officers who have
died of wounds received in the service of the
United States since the fourth of March, one
thousand seven hundred abd eighty-nine. .
On the question Vt agree to the last amendment
reported by the committee, as followeth :
Line 13, after the word "State*," insert "and to
the widowa and orphans of those eammiasioned offieei*,
in the late Cantinantalarmy, who diitd by raaaon of
wound* received before the gfteenlli daj of Haj, one
tbousHod (even hundred and wveD^-eight, in the ac-
tual aervice of the Uailed States, and for whom no pro-
vision has been made ;"
It passed in the nt^tive — yens 6, nays 16, as
follows :
YiAi — Mara. Qimn, Henry Ltvennore, Martin,
Muon, Potts, Read, and TaOnall.
Nil* — Mean*. Bingham, Bloodworth, Bndfiml
Cabot, Foster, FmlinghuyBen, King, ManbcU,
So the report of thecommittee was not adopted.
On the question. Shall this bill pass to the third
readine? il passed in the affirmative — yeas 13,
nays 13, as follows:
Tub — Henn. Bingham, Bloodworth, Brown, BniT,
Frelinghujaen, Gunn, Benij, Martin, Mason, Potta,
Rosd, Rou, and Tattnall.
NtTi— Mean*. Bradford, Cabot, Poatar, King,
Langdon, Uveraan, HaidlaU, Puna, Rolrinaoa, Ku-
Iberflird, Strong, Tazewell, and TnunbnlL
The number of votes being equal, the Vica
PsEsiDBNT determined the question in ibeaffirm-
The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ments of the House of Representatives lo the
bill, entitled "An act supplementary loan act,eiv>
titled 'An act to provides Naval Armament;"'
Retohed, That they do concur therein.
Ordered, That the bill to regulate the Mint of
the United States, and (o puni^ frauds by cdud-
terfeiting the coins thereof, or otherwise, be re-
committed.
WXDNEeoAy, April 13,
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "Anact in addi-
tion to an act, entitled ' An act making further
provision for the support of Public Ciedil, and for
the redemption of tne Public Debt, was read the
second time, and referred lo Measrs. Livermohb,
Cabot, and Kino, to consider and report thereon
to the Senate,
The hill to authorize Ebetiezer Zane to locate
certain lands in the Territory of the United States
Northwest of the river Ohio, was read the second
time, and referred to the committee, appointed on
the 8lh instant, on the bill, entitled "An act pro-
viding for the sale of the lands of the United
States in the Territory Northwest of the river
Ohio, and above the mouth of Ketitncky river,"
to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
Mr. Bdtlbr preaented the petition of Charlea
ColvU, mate ana carpenter of the ship Dauphin,
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
[Apbii^ 1796
aod late ft prisoner Id Algiers; n-hicb was read,
praying Congress lo enable him to refund ihe prin-
cipal and inteiesl of the money advanced for his
ransom.
Ordered, That it be referred to Messrs. Bot-
LERj Read, and Mason, Ki consider and report
thereon to (he Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act to provide
for the widows and orphans of certain officers who
have died of wounds received in the service of
the United Slates since the fourth of March, one
thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine, was
read the third time.
On motion, that the words, "and of the militia,"
lines 6th end Tth, be expunged, it passed iu the
negative — yeas 12, nays 16, as follows;
Tiis.— Measn. Bndibrd, Butler, Cabot, Foster, Ren-
TJ, King, Langdon, Latimei, LiTenaaie, Paine, Strong,
and TnunbuU.
NiiB.— Me»n. Bingham, Bloodworth, Brown, Burr,
FtelinghuTUD, Gnnn, Manhall, Martin, Muon, Potts,
Read, Kobinson, Rosi, Rutherford, Tattnall, and Taze-
well.
On motion to add the following words, line 7th,
after the word " died," " or who may hereafter
die;" it passed in (he negative.
On the question to concur in the passing this
bill, it was determined in the negative — yeas 13,
nays 15, as follows :
TaAB^Men*. Bingham, Bloodworth, Brown, Bnrr,
NAiB^-MeMra. Bradfittd, Butler, Cabit, Foatei
King, Langdon, Latimer, Livnmoie, Manhall, Paine,
BobuMDn, RnOiarfani, Btrong, Taiewell, and Tmm-
bnU.
So it was Sesolved, That this bill do not .
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House agree to all
Ihe amendments of the Senate to (he bill, enti-
tled " An act authorizing and directing the Secre-
tary of War to place certain persons therein
■tamed on the pension list," except the seventh, ti
which they oisagree. They have adopted thi
r^ort of the Committee of Conference on the
bill, entitled, "An act for ettablishinK trading
houses with the Indian tribes." and they have
pasaed a bill, entitled " An act to regulate trade
and intercourse with the Indian tribe?, and to
preserve peace on the frontiers;" in wuich bill
tiny deaire the concurrence of the Senate.
TanKBDAT, April 14.
The Senate proceeded lo the consideration of
the Message of (he PHBaioBHT OF the United
Stateb, of the 8(h instant, and of the papers ac-
companying the same. On motion, that they be
referred to a committee, to consist of a member
from each State, it passed in (he negative.
On motion, that they be referred to a commit-
e to consist ot five members, it passed in the
negative. And it was agreed that they be referred
to Messrs. Kino, Read, and RcTHEftrT;HO,to con-
sider and report thereon to the Senate.
FniDAT, April 15.
_ _r. K(H0,from the committee to whom wm
referred the bill, entitled " An act for the relief
and ptoteclioD of American aeameu," reported
amendments.
Ordered, That they be printed for the use of
the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act to regu-
late trade and intercourse with the Indian lrib«s,
and to preserve peace on the frontiers," was read
the second time, and the further consideration of
the bill was postponed.
MonOAV, April 19.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill sent from (he House of Represen(aUves for
concurrence, entitled " An act lo regulate trade
and intercourse with (he Indian tribes, and to
preserve peace on the frontiers."
Ordered, That this hill be referred to the corn-
tee, appointed on the 8th instant, on the bill, enti-
tled An act providing for the sale of the lands
of the United States in the Territory Northwest of
the river Ohio, and above the mouth of Ken-
tucky river," to oonsider and report thereon to
the Senate.
Mr. BoTLER presented the memorial of a num-
ber of (he merchants of Charleston, in the Stale
of Soulli Carolina, praying (hat spet'dy measures
may he adopted wnereby they may be compen-
saled for the depredations committed by the Bri-
tish cruisers on (heir vessels and property in ihe
West Indies: and the petition was read, and or-
dered to lie on the table.
The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ments reported by the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled " An act for the relief
to a second reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tion of the House of Representatives, disagreeing
to the seventh amendment of the Senate to the
bill, entitled " An act authorizing and directing
the Secretary of War to place certain persons
therein named on the pension list ;" And,
Jieaalved, That they do recede from tiieir aaid
ameodmeni.
postponed.
TiraaitAT, April 19.
The Senate resumed the eonaidemtion of tlt«
amendments reported by the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled " An act for the re-
lief and protection of American seamen."
The third section, proposed to be sabstituted
by the committee, was read, as follows ;
" 8iG. 8. And, in order that full and speedj informa-
tioD may be obtained of the ssiiaie and detention, tty
Ligizoc J, Google
mSTOBT OF C0NGR£9&
Ai-Bihl796.]
Prooeedinga.
vrj iunign Power, of uij Mcmen amplajed on boaid
■n; ihip or tumI of the United State* :
"St tlfuH^ enacted, TbaX it iluai, and hereby ii
dcdired to be, the dut)r of the master of eveiy ship or
nmtl of the United Statei, any of the crew whereof
rilall hBT« been impresBed or detained bj uij forei^
Power, at the flnt port at which mich ship or veaael
riiafl anire, if mch impremnent or detention happened
on the hi^ leBe, or, if the same happened within an;
knign port, then, in the port in which the wine hap-
pened, imnwdiBteij to m^e a proleat, atating; the man-
ur of each jniunaiiuetit or iOBatMta, bj whom made,
together with the nuMe and place of reaidmae of the
peraon trnpreaaed or detained, diatinKiiiihing, alao,
whether he was an American dtiieu, and, if not, to
what natiaa he belonged."
On motion, to amend this section, by rxponging
these words, " distin^iithinff, also, whether he
was an American citizen, ana, if not, to what ua-
lioti he beloneed ;" it was determined in the ne-
gative— yeas 3, nays 16, as follows :
Ym. — Mesan. Btoodworth, Buit, and Batler.
Niii^-MemrK Bradford, Cabot, Porter, Fnling-
hojaen, Gann, Henr; , King, Lathner, Lntnoore, Mar-
tin, Fotta, Bead, Rom, Butlwifuid, Tattnall, mi Tram-
boll.
And Ibe repurt of tfaeconKnitiee being amend-
td, was adopted ; and it was agreed that the hill
be amended accordtngly.
Ordered, That this bill pan to the third reading.
Wedwebdat, April 20.
The bill, sent from the House of RepreseDtatires
for concurrence, entitled "Ad act for the relief
ind proieclioD of American seamen," was read
liie third time.
On motion, it was agreed to insert, after thi
first section, the following amendment :
"Sic. 3. Andbeilfiirther enaeled, Tltt, Hit ibD\ili
be eipedient to employ an additiond agent or age: '
far the purpoaea anthonied by thi* law, during the
Mai of the Senate, the Preaident alone be, and hereby
ii, anthortced to appnat rach agent or agenta."
On motion, it was Eiereed to amend the last acb'
tioo of the bill, by striking out these wotds: "the
Grslaud second sections of."
Retolved, That (his bill pass with the amend-
mrats.
A meiBsage from the Hoose of Representatives
infoniied tae Senate thai the House have passed
■ UU, entitled " An act makins an appropriation
for defraying the expenses wnich may arist
cjrrying loto effect the Treaty made between
tTni ted States and the King of Spain;" and a bill,
falLtled " An act making appropriations for de-
Tiayine the expenses which may arise in carrying
ioio effect a Treaty made between the' United
States and certain Indian tribes Northwest of
>W tifei Ohioi" in which bills they desire the
Mcnrrence of the Senate.
The bills were severally read twice, by unani-
aoQs consent.
Ordered. That these bills, together with the
eooGdential communication from the Secretary for
the Department of State, with susdry eaiimates
4lh Con. — 4
referred to in the Mesuge of the Phebideiit or
THE UsiTEn STATE8, of the 29lh of March last,
be committed to Messrs. Kino, Liverhore, Potts,
BiNOflAM, and Read, to consider and report there-
on to the Senate.
TuORsiiaT, April 21.
Mr. LivEHMORE, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled " An act in addition
iBct, entitled 'An act making further provv-
for the support of Public Credit, and for the
redemption of the Public Debt," reported that the
bill pa.ts without amendment ; and the report wa*
adopted.
Ordered, Thai this bill pass to the third reading.
FRit>AY, April 22.
ThebiU,«entfrom the House of Representative*
for concurrence, entitled " An act in addition to
an act entitled 'An act making further provision
for the support of Public Credit, and for the re-
demption of the Public Debt," was read the third
Mr. Kino, from the committee to whom wai
refured the bill, entitled " An act authorizing a
Loan for the use of the citv of Washington, in
the District of Columbia, and for other ourposes
therein meactoued," reported that the Dill paw
ithout amendment.
Ordered, That the report lie for consideration.
MoHDAV, April 35.
The Senate proceeded to cooaider the report of
the committee to whom was referred the hdl, en-
tilled " An act authorixiog a Loan tot the use of
the city of Washington, in the District of Colum-
bia, and for other purpoees therein mentioned."
On motion, that the bill be referred to a special
ctHnmittee, to examine the estimates and expeinl-
itures, and report generally thereon, it passed in
the negative — yeas 12, nays 13, as follows:
YaiB.— Meena. Bingham, Cabot, Foater, Prriing-
huy«en. Gaim, King, I«timer, Liveimore, Bead, RiMi,
Butherford, and Tnunbnil.
Nira^-Meaara. BtaodwMth, Bradford, Blown, Bmr,
Batler, Henry, Marahall, Maitiii, Maaon, PoUa, Robin-
■on, Tattnall, and TaieweU.
And, after debate, the further considention of
the bill was poetponed,
A mesmge from the House of RepreMntatives
informed t£e Senate that the House have paaaed
a bill, entitled "An act making an appropriation
for defraying the expenses which may arise in
carrying into effect the Treaty made between the
United States and the Dey and Regencjr of Al-
giers;" and a bill, entitled "An act making fiiT-
tber provision relative to the revenue cutters ;" in
which bills they desire the eonciuience of the
Senate.
The bills last brought from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence were read, and ordered
to a second reading.
;d'bvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Senate.]
[Mty, 1796.
Tdbbday, April 26.
The bill, seat from the Houseor RepreseDtatives
for cODcurrence, entitled " Ad act muing further
provision relative to the revenue eutten," was
lead the second time, and referred !□ Messts. Ca-
bot, BiMQfl&u, and Bloodwobtb, to consider and
report tbereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act making an ap-
propriation Sot aefraying the expenses which may
arise in carrying into effect the Treaty made be-
tween the Uiiited Stales and the Dey and Regen-
cy of Algiers," was read the second time, and re-
ferred to ibe cotnmiltee appointed the SOth instant,
on (he bills respecting the Treaty with the King
of Spain, and with certain Indian tribes North-
west of the river Ohio, to oonaidet and report
thereon to the Senate.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
bill, entitled " An act authorizing a Loan for the
nse of the city of Waihingion, m the District of
Columbia, and for other purposes therein c
■hall prove inBdequate to the payment of the principal
and interest of the auma borrowed under this act, then
tlie defidency ahall be peid by the United States, agree-
ably to the terma of the said Iioan."
Whereupon, a motion was made to postpone
the motion for amendment, loKether with the re-
port of the committee, until this day se'nnight ;
and on the question to a^ree to the postponement,
it passed in the affirmative — yeas 13, nays 11, as
foUows :
TiAi. — Menrs. Bingham, Biadtbrd, Cabot, Foster,
Frelinghnysen, Ounn, King, Latimer, Lirermore, Read,
Hoia, Rutherford, end Trumbnll.
Nats. — Moan. Bloodworth, Brown, BulJer, Henry,
Harriiall, Mattin, Hawin, Potta, Robinaon, Tattnall,
and Tawwell.
On motion, that Hr.BoBB be permitted to vote
on the question, having been absent when it was
taken, il passed in the negative.
WfiDNEaDAY. April 27.
Mr. Rosa, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled " An act providing for
the sale of the lands of the United States in the
Territory Northwe^ of the river Ohio, and above
the mouih of Kentucky river," reported amend-
mentn ; which were read, and ordered to be printed
fbr the use of the Senate.
Mr. Rosa, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill "to aulhoriae Bbenezer Zane to
locate certain lands in the Territory of the United
Stales Northwest of the river Ohio," reported
amendments, which were read and adopted ; and
the bill was amended accordingly, and ordered to
a third reading.
Mr. Binohah presented a memorial, signed bv
Walter Stewart and others, raerchnnts. which
was teadjStaiiog, thal,in theyears 1793, 1794, and
1795, they exported provisions, to a larve amotml,
to the French West Indies, and sold them to the
officers of the Colonial Administration of the Re-
public of France; and that other property was
taken from them W force, by tbe said officers, at
prices arbitrarily &ed by themselves; for all
which the petitioners remain unpaid ; and thev,
therefore, pray the interposition of Congress m
their behau.
Ordered, That the memorial be referred to
Messrs. Binoham, Kmo, and Bdtl^b, to consider
and report thereon to the Senate.
.TntTRBDAT, April 38.
The bill to aathoiize Ebenezer Zane to locate-
certain lands in the Territory of the United Statea
Northwest of the river Ohio, was read the third
time., and. being further amended, was passed.
The following Message was recetvea from the
Prbhidgnt of tbb United States :
to tbe Attorneys of the United States in tbe aaversJ
Disttids, which is recommended to yonr conaideratioiL
G. WASHIWGTON.
UaiTiD States, ^rrii 2B, 17B6.
The Message and Letter referred to were read*
and ordered to lie for consideration.
Pbidat, April 29.
Mr. Cabot, from the committee to whom was
referred tbe bill, entitled " An act making further
provision relative to the revenue cutlery" reported
amendments, which were read and adopted.
Ordered, That this bill pass to the third reading.
The VicB pNBsiDEN-r laid before the Senate k
Report from (he Attorney Geoeralj of the 28th
instant, respecting the lands situated in the South-
western parts of Uie United Stales; and the Re-
port and papers therein referred to were read.
Ordered, That they be committed to Messrs.
Kino, Tazewell, and Oohn, to consider and re-
port thereon (o (he Senate; and that the commit-
tee he instructed to bave them printed.
Ordered, That the Message of the Presideitt
OF TBE United States, referring to the Report
of (he Attorney Gpueral, on ihe compensation to
the Attorneys of the several Districts of (be Uni-
ted States, be referred to Messrs. Bloodwobtb,
Bdrr, and Liverhore, to consider and report
thereon to the Senate.
' MoNnaT, May 2.'
The bill sent from the House of Repreteotativea
for concurrence, entitled " An act making further
provision relative to the revenue cutters," was read
the third time, an*) passed.
A message from (he House of Representa(ive»
informed (lie Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled "An act to continue in force, for a
limited lime, an act, entitled ' An act declaring
.dby'Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mat, I7S6.]
Proceedings.
[S.,
the coasea( of Congress to an act of (ha Stale of
Muf land, paued ihe 28th day of December, om
thousaod seven hundred sod nineiy-ihree, for iIjl
appointmeDl of a Healtt; Officer 'aiid a bill,eQtilled
' Ad act to ascertain and fli the Military Esiab-
Iishmeoi of the United Slates" iii which bills
they ilesire the concurrence of the Senate. They
have also passed aresolutioa,aDdapp(jioied a com-
mittee on their part, jointly with such committee
as may be appointed on the part of the Senate, to
consider snd report what further business is neces-
sary to be done during the present session, and at
what time it will be proper to adjourn ; in which
V[ ^^^j"' ^^^ concurrence of (he Senate.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act to ascertain am'
fix the Military Establishmeo t of the Uni red States,'
was read, and ordered to a second reading^.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolution
bsi brought from the House of, Repres
for concurrence.
Raoloed, That they concur therein, and that
neasTs. KtNfl and Pottb be of Ihe joint
lee on their part.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
the committee to whom was referred the bill, en-
titled " An act providing for the sale at the lands
of the Umled States in the Territory Northwest
of the river Ohio, aod above the mouth of Ken-
tucky river;" and, after debate, the further consi
deration thereof was postponed uutil
Tdbbdav, May 3.
On request, the Vice PxEaiDBNT was excused
A menue from the House of Representatives
informed t£e Senate that Ihe House have passed
1 bill, entitled "An act making an appropriation
towards defrayingthe expenses whicn may arise
in carrying into effect the Treaty of Amity, Com-
merce, and Navigation made between the United
Slates acd the King of Great Britain " and a bill
eaiitlcd "An act providing relief to tne owners of
ttills within the United Slates, for ■ limited time,
■n certain casc3;''inwhichbillsthey desire the con-
enrrence of the Senate. They disagree to all the
iDiPDdmeuts of the Senate to the bill, entitled,
" An act for the relief and protection of American
•eatnen,"! ^^*'''s ^ conference on the subject-matter
<^ the said amendments, and have appointed man-
ners at the same on their part.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
ffporl of the committee to whom was referred the
oiil, entitled " An act authorizing a Loan for the
«<• of the Citv of Washington, in the District of
Culumbia, and for other purposes therein men-
tioned."
. On maiion, further to postpone the considera-
tion of this bill, it passed m the negative — yens 4
naya 16, as follows:
y^i.^Mowra. Bingham, Frslinghnyssn, Rosl and
"ulnerfBuJ.
N^t*.— Henrs.B[Bdfi)rd, Blown, Burr, Cabot, Hon-
ry, King, Laiimn', Livermon, Manhall, Muon, Potti,
Read, Robmson, Tattnall, TazeweU, anil TrambuU.
On motion to ezpuitge the following words from
the 2d section, line 16 to 20:
" And if the prodact of die nies of all the said lob
■hall prove inadequate la Ihe payment of the principal
■nd intereat of the sums botrowed uadei' this act, tban
Ihe deficiency abtlt be paid by the Cnitad State*, agne-
abl; to the tenns of the said loan*"—
It passed in Ihe negative — yeas 8, nays 16, as
follows :
YcASi; — Messrs. Bingham, Burr, Bntlei, Fretinghay-
■en, Latimer, Rdiinwn, Koea, and Ratheriiird.
Niis. — Mesars. Bloodnorth, Bndford, Brawn, Cabot,
Poater, Henry, King, Livermne, Manhall, Martin, Ma-
Kin, VoOm, Bead, Tattnall, TaznveU, and TrombnU.
On motion to inseri these words in the 1st sec-
tion, after the words " six per centum per annum,"
"including all charges and ezpeDses,''ii passed in
the negative — yeas 10. nays 14, as follows:
-Mum a, Bingham, Bntler, FnlinghoyMn ,
Gimn, King, Latimir, Martin, Robinaon, I^aa, and
Rmheiiitid.
NiYB.— Memra. Bloodworth, Bndfbrd, Brawn, Cabo^
Poaler, Henry, Livermon, Marshall, Maann, Polta^xadi
Tattnall, Tuewetl, end TrotobulL
Ordered, That this bill pass toalhird reading.
The second reading of the bill aulhorizing the
settlement of the demands of Anibooy Waltoni
White against the United Stales was resumed ;
and, after debate, on motion that this hill be refer-
red to a special committee, it passed in the negti-
Ordered, That the further consideration thereof
be postponed until to-morrow.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resola-
jn of the House of Representatives disagreeing
all the amendments of the Senate to the biJT
ititled "An act for the relief and protection of
American seamen," and desitiog a conference on
the subject-matter ol the said amendments.
Re»oloed, That they do insist on their said
amendments^ and agree to the proposed confer-
ence; and that Messrs. Kma and Bobb be mana-
gers at Ihe same on iheir part.
The bill sent from the House of Represanlalives
r concurrence, entitled " An act providing relief
to the owners of stills within the United Siate^
for a limited time, in certain cases," was read, and
ordered to a second reading.
The hill sent from the House of Representative* ■
r eoocurreuce. entitled " An act making an ap-
propriation towards defraying the expenses which,
nlay arise in carryiog into effect the Treaty of
Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, made between
the United Stales and the King of Great Britain,"
was read the first time, and ordered to a second
reading.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
r concurrence, entiilcd " An act to coutinue in
force, for a limited tioi?, an del, entitled ' An act
declaring the consent ol Congress to an act of the
Slate of Maryland, passed the twenry-eighlh of
Decembpr,ooe thousand seven hundred and nincty-
;dbvGoogle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Senate.]
Proceeding*.
[Hat. 17M.
three, for the appointment of a Heslth Officer,'
ma read twice, and ordered to a third Tea^jpg.
The petition of John Nieholson was presented
and read, stating that he is a mannfactuier of gla^-
ware, and praviDg Can^eea to lay a duty of twenty
pet centum ad valorem on imported glass, for the
ODCouragement of the manufacture.
Ordered, That this petition lie on the table,
WEDMEaBAY, May 4.
Mr. Kino reported, from the joint commit...
appointed for that purpose, the business necessary
(o be passed upon previous to a recess j and that
Congress may adjourn on the 20th instant; and
the report was read, and ordered to lie for consi-
deration.
The bin sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " Ad act making an ap-
propriation towards defraying the expenses which
ma^r arise in carrying into effect the Treaty of
Amity, Commerce, and Navi^tion, made beti
the United States and the King of Great Brit
was read tbe second time, and referred lo the l . _
mittee appointed the 20th of AptiL on the several
bills making appropriations for carrying into effect
the Treaties between the United States and the
King of S^in, between the United States and the
Dey and Regency of Algiers, and between tbe
United States and certain Indian tribes, to c
der and report thereon to tbe Senate.
Tbe bill sent from the House of Representatives
br concurrence, entitled " An act providing relief
to tbe owners of stills within the United States,
for a limited time, in certain eases." was read the
second time, and referred to Messrs. Roes, Foe-
TBB, and PoTTB, to consider and report thereop
10 the Senate.
The bill sent from the Houae of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled "An act authorizing a
Loan for the use of the City of Washington, in
tbe District of Columbia, and for other purposes
therein mentioned," was read the third time ; and,
\ the q
, Shall thU bill.
1 the affirmative — yws ft, nays 7, ai
follows :
Tub.— Messrs. BloodwwA, Bradford, Brown, Csbol.
Foster, Onnn, Henry, Knif , Livermore, Msrshall, Msr-
lin, Potts, Read, Tattnall, Tszewell, and Tmrnban.
N4TS. — Meorm. Bingham, Bnrr, Frelin^nysen, Lat-
imer, Robinaon, Rom, and Ratherfbrd.
So, it was resolved that this bill pass.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled "An act to continue in
force, for a limited lime, an act, entitled ■ An act
declaring the consent of Congress to an act of the
State of Maryland, passed the twenty-eighth De-
cember, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-
three, for the appointment of a Health Officer,"
was read the third lime, and passed.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of tbe committee to whom was referred the
bill, entitled " An act providing for the sale of the
lands of the United Sute.« in the Territory North-
west of the river Ohio, and above the mouth of
Keatucky river;" and the report being amended,
was adopted, and the bill amended accordingly.
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
Mr. Kino, from the committee to whoin were
referred the following bills, to wit: the bill, en-
titled "Ad aft making an appropriation towards
defraying the eipenses whicn may arise in carry-
ing into effect the Treaty of Amity, Commerce,
and Navintion, made between the United States
and the ELmg of Great Britain ;" the bill, entitled
"An act mEtkinean appropriation for defraying
the expenses which may arise in carryitur into
effect the Treaty made between ihe United States
and the Dey and Regency of Algiers ;" and the
bill, entitled "An act making appro^iations for
defraying the expenses which may arise in carry-
inginio effect the Treaty made between the United
States and certain Indian tribes Northwest of the
"An act making an appropriation for defraying'
the eipenses which may arise in carrying into
effect tne Treaty made between the United States
and the King of Spain," pass with amendments ;
and the report being adopted, the bill was amended
accordingly.
On motion, it was apreed, by unanimous con-
sent, to dispense with the rule, and that these bills
be now severally read the third lime.
Betolvtd, That these hills severally pass, agree-
ably to the report of tbe committee.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House
of Representatives with the concurrence of the
Senate to the bills providing for carrying into
effect the three Treaties first mentioned ; and de-
sire their concurrence in the amendments of the
Senate lo the bill respecting the Treaty with the
King of Spain.
Mr. Bloodwobth reported, from the committee
who had under consideration the Message of the
pBEStOEHT OP THE UsiTEn Statbh, iipferriog to
the Report of the Attorney General on the com-
pensation to the Attorneys of the several Districts
of the United States ; which report was read, and
ordered to lie for consideration.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act to ascertain
and hi the Mtlitary Establishment of the United
Slates," was read the second lime, and referred to
Messrs. Qunm, Fselinobcvben, and BaAnFORD,
' consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act providing
for the sale of the lands of the United Slates in the
Territory Northwest of the river Ohio, and above
the mouth of Kentucky river," was read the third
On motion to amend section 7th of the report,
that the forfeiture of the money paid in case of
failure in the contract be one half, instead of the
whole sum advanced ; it passed in the n^aiive.
On motion to restore the words " -
.d by Go Ogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Hit, 1796.]
ProetetUngt.
[Suu-n.
a^nd frooi seetioQ 7th of the original bill; it
puM in the negative.'
On motifm to affix the price of the Uad til two
Wkn like aere ; it passed in the negatire.
OBnodou, that tbe bill be further amended, it
WIS agmd to postpone the oooaidemtion thereof
until bymorrow..
A neaagc from the House of Represeatalires
inibiMed ^e Senate that the Honae hsve passed
k MM, entitled "An act for compensating Jona-
ttii Hastings, Deputy Poatmaslet at Bo»loa, for
uln services ;" a bill entitled "An act for the re-
hcfofMoM3Myers;"abiUeDtilled "An act for the
relief of SamtieL BrownV a bill entitled "Aq act
■ntbohu&g the eiectioa o( a liffht-house on Cape
Cod, in the State of MassachtuetU ;" a bill enti-
iJed ''Ab act allowing eompenratioa for borsea
killed in battle beloa^ng to of&eers of the Army
of the United Stales,-" and a bill entitled "An act
ia addition to no. act entitled 'An act suppiement-
Sr to the act entitled 'An act to provide more
ectnally for the oollectioa of the duties on
snods, wares, and merchandise, imported into the
United Stalea, and m tfae-tonnage of shipE
leb;" in which bills they desire the
o€ the Senate.
Tbe bills last brought from the House of Re-
presentatives for concunence were seTerelly read,
and c»deied to a second reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
tke eonunittce to whom was referred the NUssaM
»rf *^« Pbmidbkt op thb Uhitbd STATsa, of ins
28tfa t>t April last, respecting tbe compensation to
t&« I&tnet Attorneys of the United States ; and
b^Tim^ adopted the same, the bill was recommit-
Ced. mtb an instruction to the committee to re-
port n bill accordingly.
Or-Jertd, That the bilj anthorizing the setile-
meni of the demands of Anthony 'f^lton White
against the United States, be postponed until the
next session of Congress.
Mr. KiHG reported from the , -^
pointed to consider the Message of the PHEaroENT
OF XHB UHrTED States of the 8th of April last,
respeciing a new State Southwest of the
Ohio ; and the report was read, and ordered
printed for the use of the Senate.
FninAT, May 8.
Tbe VicB PHEBinCNT being absent, the Senate
proceeded to the choice of a President pro temr-
pare, a* the Constitution pro' ' ' ' "
LiiTKBMoae was duly elected.
A message from the House of Representatives
infonned the Senate that the House ha7e passed a
Ul,pntitled "An act making provision for the pay-
Bent of certain debts of tbe United Slates ;" and
1 biU, entitled "An act to repeal so moch of an
M, entitled 'An act to establish tbe Judicial
Cairta of tbe United States,' as directs that al-
(enaie tieasions
of the Circuit Court for the Dii
uiet of PennsylTania shall be holden at York-
town, and foe other purposes ;" in which bills they
i. -_ th» concarreoco of the Senate.
Tfc^ WlTi^** ^°^ theHoase of Representa
, entitled "An act to repeal
mnch of an act, entitled 'An act to estabUak
tbe Judicial Courts of the United States,' as di-
rects that alternate sessioiks of tbe Circuit Court
for the District of PennsylvaDia shall be holden
at Yorktowo, and for other purposes," was read
the first time, and ordered to a second leading.
The bill, sent from the House ot Repieseata-
liTes for concurrence, entitled "An act making
~ravision for the payment of certain debts of the
'njted States," was read twice, and referred to
Messrs. Bihoham, Cabot, and Sino, to considor
thereon to the Senate.
30woBTH,fron) the committee appoint
ed for thai purpose, reported a bill to provide for
tbe compensation of the District Attorneys of the
United States ; which was read, and ordered to a
second reading.
The bill, sent from tbe House of Representa-
res for concurrence, entitled "An act allowing
Xnsation for horses killed in battle, belonging
:ers of tbe Army of tbe United States,"
was read the second lime, and referred to Messrs.
lose, Mahtin, and Bbadfokd, to consider and
;port thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the Houae of ReprwenM^
rtves for concurrence, entitled "An act in addition
[. entitled 'Ad act supplementary to the
;led 'An act to provide more cflfectuoHy
for the collection of tbe duties on goods, ware^
and merchandise, imported into tbe United Slates.
and on the tonnage of ships or vessels," was read
tbe second time, and referred to Messrs. Pottb,
Cabot. andBinotiAH,to consider and report there-
on to tfie Senate.
The bill, sent frwn the House of RefneseDta-
tires for concurrence, entitled "An act for the r^
lief of Moses Myers," was read the second time,
and referred to Messrs. FH^LiNOBirvSEN, FofTTEB,
and Tattmall, to consider and report aereoB to
the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House irf Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act authorising
the erection of a light-bouse on Cape God, in the
State of Massachusetts," was read the teeoud
lime, and referred to Messrs. Rctbehfubo, Bbad-
FORD, and Cabot, to consider and report thereon
to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act for the re-
lief of Samuel Brown," was read the second tim^
and referred to the committee last named, to con-
sider and report thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act for com-
pensating Jonathan Hastings, Deputy Postmaslei
at Boston, for eitra services," was read the second
time, and referred to Messrs. Qunn, Bbaopobd,
and Cabot, to consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
The Senate resumed the third reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
concurrence, entitled "An act providing for tha
sale of the lands of the United Stales in the Ter-
ritory Northwest of the river Ohio, and above th«
mouth of Kentucky river."
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Sbrati.]
Procfeding*.
[Mat, 1796.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the second
Mction reported by. the committee, line 15th, by
inserting, sJFler the word 'by,' the wards following:
*■ Running through the nine each way, pinllel
line*, *t the end of ever; two milei; and by m&rktng '
earner on each of the uid line*, at the end of evei.
. mlk, the aectiona ihall be numbend, reepectively, be-
ginning with the number one, in the northeait eection,
•nd proceeding weet uiil east allenialalj, thiough the
lown^p, trith pingntFUve numben, tdll the thirn-iijth
be completed. And it Bbell be the da? of the Deputy
Surveyor!, refpectirely, to caiue to be maihed, on t
tree, near each eomer made ai afbiewid. and within tht
Motion, the number of eucb eection, and aier it the
Bomber of the township within which such eec^on mi;
be; and the said Deputise shall carefully note in tbeii
respectirc Eeld-booki the name* of the comer tn»i
inarked, and the nomben » made."
On motion, it was agreed to reconsider the
UBendment to the 4th section of the original bill,
and to concur in fixing the price oi the land at
two ddlois per acre.
On motion, to insert a nev Motion, as follows
Mmt be it matted, That alieiu, rending nithm the
ITniled 8tal«* or elMwhera, ahall be capable of pur^
fhtiinff and holding the landa directed to be sold by
ftia act, and thnr hHi* may mccesd them ab itUettato,
In Ihe —ma tnaitner a* if they were dtuwus ; and they
Bay grant, eell, and deriae, the saoie to whom they
please, whether citizens or alien*, and that neither they,
their heirs, or aingns, ihall, so far as may respect the
aaid lands, and the legal remedies incident thereto, be
Ngarded a* aliens ■"
It passed in the negative — yeas 11, nays 11, as
follows :
Tau^-MesMS. Bb^iam, Bradlbrd, Burr, Cabot,
Foster, Onnu, Manhall, Potts, Read, Roaa, and Ruther-
fad.
Nats,— Mean*. Bloodworth, Brown, Prelingbttyeen,
Benry, King, I^timei, Martin, Strong, Tattnall, Taw-
well, and Tmmbnll.
The PBESinENT determined the question in the
Bentive.
Betoloed, That this bill pass with the amend-
MoNDAY, May 9.
On motion, that a paper purporting to be the
appointment ofWiLUAU Blocht and William
Cocke, respectively, to seals iii the Senate, should
be read, it was agreed that the motion be post-
poned until to-morrow.
A message from the House of Representatives
Joformed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled "An act laying duties on carriages
for the conveyance of persons, and repealing the
former act for that purpoiie ;" aod a bill, entitled
"An act for the relief of Sylvanus Bouroe;" in
which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
Mr. Robs, from the committee to whom was
. referred the bill, entitled "An act allowing com-
peoaation for horses killed in battle, belonginr to
officers of the Army of the United States," re-
ported that the bill pa.is without amendment;
and the report was adopted.
The bill was then read a third time,and passed.
Mr. Gdkh, from the committee to whom waa
referred the bill, entitled "An act to BFcerlaiD
and fix the Military Establishment of the United
States," reported amendments ; which were read.
Ordered, That the amendments be printed for
the use of the Senate.
Mr. BiHOBAH. from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled "An act makingpro-
vision for the payment of certain debts of the
United States," reported amendments ; which
were read, and in part adopted.
Ordered, That the further consideration there-
of be postponed until to-morrow.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act to repeal
so much of an act, entitled 'An act to establish
Judicial Courts of the United States,' as directs
that alternate sessions of the Circuit Court for the
District of Pennsylvania shall be boldEo at York-
Iown,and for other purposes," was read the second
time, and ordered to a third reading.
The bill, sent from the Htause of Representa*
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act for the re-
lief of Sylvanus Bourne," was read, and ordered
a second reading.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
les for concurrence, entitled "An act laying du-
ties on carriages for the conveyance of persona,
and repealing the former act' for that purpose,"
was read twice, and referred to Messrs. Rdtbbb-
rvBD, Tazewell, and BrRa, to consider and re-
port thereon to the Senate.
ThePBEBiDBNT laid before the Senate a Letter
from the Treasurer of Ihe United States, accom-
TtiEaniT, Mat 10.
Mt. GoNN. from the committee to whom was
referred the bilL entitled "An act for compensa-
ting Jonathan Hasting, Deputy Postmaster, at
Boston, for extra services," reported an amend-
ment, which was read, and the consideration
thereof postpon ed .
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred
the bill, entitled "An act making provision for
the paymen tof certain debts of the United States."
Ordered, That the further consideration there-
of be postponed.
The bill to provide for the compensation of the
District Attorneys of the United States was read
the second time, amended, and ordered to a third
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill,enlitled "An act altering the sessions of the
Circuit Courts in the districts of Vertoont and
Rhode bland, and for other purposes," in which
they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill last mentioned was read, and ordered
to a second reading.
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OP CONGRESS.
Proceeding*.
The bill, sent from the House of Represeuta-
tires fot concurrtQce^ entitled "An act lo repeal
so much of uiBCl entitled 'An act toestablish the
Judicial Courts of the United Stale;,' &s directs
ibat alternate sessions of the Circuit CouTt. for the
district of FeoasylTania, shall be holden at York-
town, and for other purposes ;'' was read the third
time and passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tiTes for cODCuiceace, entitled " An act for the re-
lief of Sylvanus Bourne," was read the second
time, andrefened to Messrs. Foster, Martin, and
Lanqdoh, to consider aod report thereon to ihe
Senate.
Ordered, That the consideration of the paper.
■le, respectively, be postponed until Friday next.
The Senate took uto cousideration the lepoil
ofthr ■ ......
to whom was referred the Mes-
M^ of the President ot the United States,
oT (he Bih of April last, respecting a new State
South of the ri»er Ohio ; and, after debate,
Ordered, That the further consideration there-
of be postponed.
Wbdhesdat, Mat 11.
Ordered, That the bill, entitled 'An act making
e'ovision for tbe payment of certain debts of the
nited Slates," be recommitted.
The bill to provide for the compeosalion of the
District Allomevs of the United Stales was read
a third time, and postponed to the next session of
Congress.
The Senate resumed (he consideration of the
report of the committee to whom whs referred the
Message of the pREaiDENT, of .the Sth of April
last, respecting « new State South of the rirer
Ohio.
A motion was made to strike out of the report
the following words: "and providing for an enu-
' 1 of the inhabitanis thereof, in ibe man-
„ ir the enumeration of the inhabitants of the
United Stales,' passed on the first day of March,
one thousand seven hundred and ninety i" aJid, af-
ter debate, tbe further consideration Ihereoi was
postponed.
ssage from the House of Represeutati
t the iSeaaie that the House agree to
amendments of the Senate to the bill.
:t providing for the sale of the lands of the
United States, in the Territory Northwest of the
river Ohio, and above the mouth of Kentucky ri-
ver," with amendments ; in which they desire the
concurrence of the Senate. They have passed a
bill, sent from the Senate for concurrence, entitled
''Ad act to authorize Ebenezer Zane to locale
certain lands in theTerritory of the United States.
Northwest of the river Ohio," with amendments^
in which they desire the concurrence of the
Senate.
Mr. RoTHBRrDRD, from die committee to whom
wu referred the bill entitled " An act authorizing
the eraetioD of a light-houie cm Cape Cod, in the
State of Massachusetts," reported that the bill
pass, with amendment.
Tne Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ments of the House of Representatives to the bill,
entitled "An act to authorize Ebenezer Zane to
locate certain lands in the Territory of the United
States, Northwest of the river Ohio."
Retotoed, That they do concur in the amend-
amendments of the Senate, to the bill, eniiuen
'' An act providing for the sale of the lands of the
United Stales, in the Territory Northwest of the
river Ohio, and above the mouth of Kentucky
Ordered, That they be referred to the commit-
tee who were originally appointed to consider the
hilt, who are lo report thereon to the Senate.
Mr. Cabot gave notice that he would to-morrow
ask permission to introduce a bill, providiiu pass-
ports for the ships and vesselsof the United Stales.
The bill sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled" An act altering
the sessions of the Circuits Courts in the Districts
of Vermont and Rhode Island, and for other pot-
poses," was read the eecond time and referred to
Messrs. Bradford, Robikbon, and Poster, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
THORSDAy, May 12.
The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ment reported by the committee to whom was
referred tbe bill, entitled " An act authorizing tbe
erection of a light-house on Cape Cod, in the
State of Massachusetts^" which was adopted.
Ordered, That the bill pass to the third veadiitg.
Mr. Ross reported from the committee to whom
were referred the amendments of the House of Re-
presentatives to the amendments of the Senate to
[he bill, entitled '' An act providine for the sale
of the lands of the United States, in the Territory
Northwest of the river Ohio, and above the moutn
of Kentucky river," that the Senate agree to all
the amendments to the amendment except to the
first, and that they disagree to the fi^rst, add ask a
conference on the disagreeing votes of the two
Houses; and the report was adopted.
Ordered. That Messrs.RoasandKiNGbeman-
agers at the conference on the part of the Senate.
Mr. Ross reported, from the committee to
whom was referred tbe bill, entitled. "An act to
'gutale trade and intercourse witn Ihe Indian
irines. and to preserve peace on the frontiers,"
that the bill rass without amendment.
Ordered, That the consideration of this report
be postponed.
Mr, RoTKERFURD reported, from Ihe commit-
e to whom was referred tbe hill, entitled "An
act for the relief of Samuel Brown," that the hilt
ot pass; and the report was agreed to ; and
on the question that this bill be read Ihe third
time, It [ussed in the negative. So the biU wu
rejected.
Conformable to notice given yesterday, Mr
.dbyGoogle
m
BISTORT OP CONGRESS.
Sbmatb.]
[M»r,1796.
Cabot had permiMion to introduce ■ bill i«0Tid-
ing passports for ihe ships and Tesaels of th« United
States ; vhich bill was read, and ordered u> a se-
ooDd reading.
On moiioo, it was agreed, by unanimous ooa-
sent, ibat Mr. STaoHO nave permission to intro-
duce a bill to continue in force, fora Umited cim
the acts therein meutioaed.
Mr. BiNQHAM reported, from the committee
whom was recommitted tne bill, entitled " An act
making provision for the payment of certain iehtu
of the United States i which report was in part
rejected; and, after debate, the further considera-
tion of the report was postpoaed.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
IdessageofthepKEStoENT opthe United States.
of the 8th of April last, respecting a new State
South oftherirer Ohio.
Ordered, That the further consideration thereof
be postponed.
A. niessage from the House of Represeotativi
informed die Senate that the Hotue hare passt
a bill, entitled "Anact to prevent the sale oi^prizes
brought into the United States, br vessels belong-
ing to any foreign Prince or State;" in which
they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
They recede from their amendment, disagreed
to by tne Senate, to (heir amendment to tbe bill.
entitled "AnactproTidingfor tbe sale of the lands
of the United Slates in the Territory Northwest
of the river Ohio, and above the mouth of Ken-
tucky river."
Tbe bill last brought from the House of Repie-
sentatives for concuti«Dce was read, and ordered
to a second reading.
Fhu)*y, May 13.
The bill^seat from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "Anact authoriz-
ing the erection of a light-house on Cape Cod, in
the State of Massachusetts," was read the third
time and passed.
The bill providine- passports for the ships and
vessels of the Unit^ States, was read the second
time, and the further coDsideration thereof posl-
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
the committee to wbom was referred the biU, en-
titled " An act to regulate trade and intercourse
vith the Indian tribes, and to preserve peace on
the frontiers j" and the reportof^the committee be-
ing adopted, the bill was ordered toa tbirdreadiog.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entided "An act relative to quarantine," in
whiea tbev desire the concurrence of tbe Senate.
_ The bill, entitled " An act relative to quaran-
tine," was readIwice,Bnd referred to Messrs. Bdtb-
BBFDBD. BiHOHAH aod Lanodon, Io cousider and
rutort thereon to the Senate.
Mr. PoTTe, from the committee to whom was
referred tbe bill, entitled "An act in addition loan
act^ entitled 'An act supplementary to the act,
euitled, 'Ad act 10 provide more effectually for
the coUeclioD of the duties ob goods, wares, and
merchandise, imported into the United States,
and on tbe tonnage of ships or vessels," reported
amendments.
The Senate resumed the coosideiation of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
bin, entitled " An act making provision for the
payment of certain debts of the United States;**
and, after debate, the further consideration there-
of was postponed.
The Senate resumed the consideration ot the
report of the committee to whom was referred
the Message of the pRsainaxT or thi Utirrss
States, of the 8th of April last, respecting a new
State South of the river Ohio ; together with the
motion for amendment on tbe 11th instant tmder
consideration ; and a motion was made to post-
pone the proposed amendment to the report, is
order to introduce a more general one; and,auer
debate, the Senate adjoamed.
Satdkday, May 14.
The bib, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act to regu-
late trade and intercourse with the Indian tribe^
and to preserve peace oix the frontiers,'' was read
tbe third time.
On motion to subjoin the following to the end
of the third section :
"Provided, lha,t the said penalty eball not be inflicted
I an; person or person! who may have cmwed the
te in search of atr*; hoiBes, cattle, Oi an; othei stock ;"
It passed in the negative — yeas 11, nays 13,
as follows :
YsAs. — Messrs. Bloodwoith, Brown, Burr, Bntler,
Gnnn, Heniy, Ltngdon, Martin, Robinson, Tattnall,
and Tatewell.
Nits— Measn. Biniham, Biadfbrd, Cabot, King,
Ladmar, Livermore, Manhall, Potts, Read, Ron, Rnth-
erford, Strong, and TnunbuU.
On motion to expunge from the 3d and 3d lines
of the 3d sectionj the words " South of the river
Ohio," it passed in the negative.
On motion to expunge the 3d section, which is
follows :
" Sm. 3. And be <t farther enaeted. That, if any
such dtiien or other person shall go into any count!;
which ii allotted or secured by Trea^, as a(br<s«id, to
any of the Indian tribes, South of the river Ohio, with-
OQt a passport first bad and obtained, from the Oovem-
■ot of >ome one of tbe United States, or tbe ofGcer of
the troops of the United Statea comnianding at Ote
nearest post on the Erontiera, or indi odiei person as
the Prestdent of tbe United States may, from time to
time, aathoriie to grant tbe same, shall forfeit a Rum not
eioeeding Gily dollars, or be imprisoned not eiceedtng
three months i
YiiB. — Measie. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Botler,
Oitnn, Langdon, Marriiall, Martin, Robinson, Tattnall,
and Tazewell.
Nav*. — Messrs. Bin^iais, BradliiTd, Cdrat, Foster,
Heniy, King, Latimai, Livermora, Potts, Read, Ross,
Rutherfurd, Strong, and TraoibttlL
;d by Go Ogle
BISTORT OP CONGRESS.
Hit, 1796.]
[8 DM ATS.
The ifReation on the bill tras determined m the
affirmative — y«ms 17, naf* 8, u MIows:
TsAt^-Mewn. Hngham, Bradford, C&bot, Potter,
Heniy, King, LuiKdon, Latnner, Lirermore, Mtnliill,
Mutin, Poto, Beu], Ron, RntherAiid, Strong, and
TnimbnU.
NiTi. — Mam. Bloodwortii. Biowd, Buit, Butler,
Gunn, RobinnD. Tattnall, and Tuewell.
So it was liegolved, That this bill pass.
The bill to continue in fotce, for ^limited time,
the acts therein meulioned, was read the i^ccuiid
asd third times, and paued.
The bill, sent from the House of Represenia-
tiresfot coiM:iirieBee,eBtitled "An act to prevent
the sale of the prlzea brought into the United
States by vessels bekmging to any foreign Prince
or Stale," was read the second time, and referred
to Meavs. Read, Bubh, and Cabot, to consider
and report thereon to the Senate.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred the
Mesoageof [he PBEarDEWT OP THE United States,
of the 8th of April last, respecting a new Slate
South of the rivet Ohio ; together with the motion
for amendment, made on the 11th; and on the
question to agree to the proposed amendment, it
passed in the negative.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the report
by inserting, after the firnt para|^raph, immediate-
ly subsequent to the words '^original Slates," these
" On the Mh of July, 1TS7, the Stale of Sonlh Caro-
^a ceded, ivitboat anj condition whatever, their tiaiau
to all land* lying betwoen the MiniMijipi and the ridge
of moontaini whidl di*idea the Wertem frotn the Bast-
em waten; the nme being Sanlh of; and contifnoua
to, the Tenilory ceded br Nrath CaroKna, and Bniaha-
hited except by Indiaiu."
Also, to add, after the words "act of cession,"
in the second instnnc.e, the words " rf North Caro-
lina ;" and, in the same line, to strike out the word
"same," and insert "Territory 'thereby ceded."
It was further agreed, to expunge the words,
"ceded by North Carolina," and insert, " South of
the OhiD.^
On motion to expunge the whole of the report,
after the word ''distric[,"and to substitute he fol-
•■ 1b the year 17»-, pmob ntiAclMy to the Qevem-
•r of the Mid TflRilon hating been given that thoa
4 the aaid Temlon h>
e iwra than five thoue
Ibe prawiaiMi of the nid ordhtanoe in aueh caae declared ;
the Governor and Coqncil being appointed by, and re-
wtrabla at the pleanue of, Iba Prendeut. Onthailth
gf Jaly, 1T&6, an act wai pMMd by tha Legialatare of
■^ nid TenilaTyfcr taking a eanfiuof the inbabitanta
"The peTHDB ■• eboacB, Bel in CenvevHaB, « the
lllbof JauBuy, nee; dseUred the people of that part
of the said Tenilory irtaefa wm ceded by North Cara-
biia to be a &ce aikd independent Stats, by the name of
the Stale of Tenneaaee, (a great majority of the aaid
inhabitants having aiprened tbeii wish to bum toge-
ther one Stale,) and Ibr tbeii permanent Gaienment,
eipteuly recognising the aforenid Ordinance of C<«-
greis, formed a Constitution conaiatent with the prin-
<dplee and articles thereof,
"By the provisions of the Constilution, »o formed,
the Legislature thereby directed to be chosen wss re-
quired to meet on the laet Monday in March then next,
tor the sToned puiwse of obtaining a representation in
Congreea dming the present sesnon. The Legislature
met accordingly, and the temporary Government ea-
tablished in the said Territory has erased and been na-
pended. Due notice of ail ^ aforeadd acta and pro-
ceedings has, from time to dme, been given by the Go-
vernor of the said TenitoTy to tbe GovenmaBt of the
United StaCea, and no diasatia&etian Ibranpon «x>
pressed by the latter.
" Upon the preceding state of facts, tbe eommitlaa
remark, 1st. That, slthongh Congreea have not, by
■nj formal and direct act declared that the Tenitfo;
Sonth of the Ohio should, for the purpose of permanent
Goienuoent, be one Stale; yet, inasmuch ai it doth
appear to be the desire of a great m^orily of the inha-
bitants thereof, that so much of the said Territory as ii
conUined within the cession of North Carolina ahonld
be formed into one Stale ; and, as the Government of
the United Stales hath acquiesced in the proreedinga
bonded on that idea : conddoipg, also, tbe iti— tiffs r
tion and tempm-ary anarchy which would probably be
produced by the attempt to dEsaolte the permanent Go-
vemment, so formally eataUiabad, and to divide the aaid
Territory into two or ■mm States, aol^ect to tbe tsn-
porary Government of the United Stalea : it Mb ap-
Eesr to tbe committee to be highly expedient, if not ob-
gatory on the United Stales, to lay out into one State
the whole of the Territory aided by North Carolina.
" Sd. That, although Uie law diroctiog the said cen-
sus doth not, BO &r as regards the enmnoration of tran-
sient persons, provide the check contained in the act
for the enumeration of the inhabitaDts of the United
pointed fay, and removable at, the pleasure of the Oo-
vemmantoflhe United Statea, and exectitod by affieets
also appointed by the saate authority — aeeing that aa
mateiul error in &cl can probably have been made b]r
reason of the supposed inaccoraey of ibe said law, and
that, by the enumeration afbiaaaid, there doth appear
to have been, in the month of November, 1786, np
wards of 67.000 fi«a inhabitants, and upwBida of lO.tM
slaves, in the aaid Teiriloiy, the eonniittee an of opin-
ion that the census, so lakaa, is and ought to be deem-
ed sstis&ctoiy evidence that the said TKritmy doth
contain 60,000 fret inhatatanta.
" The "™-im>" dMrebre reeommBid the foUowtnf
rsMiotiolis:
" Rttohtd, Tbat the Territeiy ef the United Statea
SoDtb of the Ohio, wbieh hath been ceded by NorA
Carolina, be one Stale, and that ^ aame be and ber»
by is aolmowledged as one of Ae United States, by Hm
nameofllHSIateof Tennessee, and entifled to arepi*-
sentalion in Congrsaa, " on an equal fboting irith Ae
original States in all reapeeta whatsoever," according to
the Conatitntionaf tbe United Slataa.
.dbyGOOgle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
93
Sbratb-J
{Mil
1796.
" 3. Stmktd, That, nnti] the neit Genenl Ceiwiu,
the State of Tennenee ibal] be entitled to weaA
nemben lo the Home of BepmentaliTea."
And, on the question to af ree to this amend'
ment, it passed in the negative — yeas 9, nays 14i
as follows :
Ytta—Kemn. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butlen
Heni;, L&n^on, Martin, Robinwin, and Tazewell.
NiLTS. — Meun. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Foater,
Gnnn, King, Latimer, Liiermore, Fotta, Read, Roai,
RathetAud, Strong, and Tmmbull.
MoHDATf May 16.
On motion, the Senate resumed the second read-
ing of the bill, entitled "An actmakine provision
for the payment of certain debts of the United
States."
On motion, to add at the end of the third sec-
tion, in lieu of the proviso, the following wom!':
" And it ahall be lawful (or the CommissioneTB of the
Sinking Fund, if they sbalt End the aame lo be moat
advantageoua, to cell aueh, and go rnanj, of the ihareB
of the stock of the Bank of the United Statea, belong-
ing to the United States, aa the; ma; think proper ;
and that thej applj the proeeedi thereof to the paj-
ment of die ujd debta, ijutead of aelling certificatea of
■tock, in the manner pieacribed in this act :"
It passed in the affirmative—yeas 13, naya 12
as follows:
Tub. — Meaata. Bhwdworth, Biown, Borr, Butler,
Henry, Langdon, Maiahall, Martin, Rotdnson, Roea
Buthecflird, Tattnall, and Tazewell.
Nats. — Meaara. Bing;ham, Bradfind, Cabot, Foater,
Oann, King, Latimer, Livennore, Fotta, RewJ, Strong,
and TrumbnlL
And tbe bill being further amendJ^d, it was or-
dered to a third reading.
The Senate resumed tbe consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred thi
Messageof the Prgbident of the Uniteu States
of the 8tb of April last, respecting a new State
Soutbof the river Ohioj and sundry other amend-
ments beiny agreed to, a motion was made lo in-
sert, after Inc word " district," the following;
" In the year 1 79-, proob aatiifactoi^ to the Governor
of the said Territory haTing been given, that there were
lDor« than ' five thouaand free male inbabitanta in the
aaid laat mentioned Territory, Re^^eaentatiTea were
ehoaen, and a Government orgsniied, porauant to the
proviaion of the aaid ordinance in auch case declared ;
(he Governor and Council being appointed by, and re-
movable at the pleaanre of, the Preaident Un tbe Ilth
<rf Joly, 1796, an act waa passed by the Legielalore of
tte aa^ Territory for taking a censua of the inbabitanta
ttereofi and it appearing from the censoa, »o taken, that
lime were more than aiity tbouaand free inhabitants in
fto said Tarritoty, the said Governor, on the 38th of
November, 1 796, iaaued bie proclamation, aa by the said
last mentionad acta is preacsibed, requiring the aaid in-
habitanta lo chooee peiwms to represfeut them in Con-
vention, for the purpose of fiitming a Constitution or
permanent form of Government. The perK>nB aa eho-
aen, met in Convention, on the Ulh of January, 1796,
declared the people of that part of the swd Tenitory
which naa ceded by North CaroUna to be a free and
indefiendent State, by the otme of the State of Tennea-
aee, (a great oiajoritr of the aaid inbabitanta having ei'
preaaed their wiab to form together one Stale.) and, for
their permanent GoTprnment, expressly recognising the
aforesaid ordinance of Congrea*, formed a Conatitution
consistent with the prindplea and artidea thereof
" By the provinona of the Constitution, so formed,
the Legislature, thereby dirocted to be choeen, waa n-
qnirad to meet on the last Monday in March then next, for
the avowed purpose of obtaining ■ repreeentation in
Congreai during the present session. The Legialatora
met accordingly, and die temporary Government ea-
tabliahed in the said Territory has ceased and been an-
peraedcdi Due notice of all the aforesaid acts and pn-
eeedinge has, from time to time, been given by the Go-
vernor of the said Territory to the Government of Iha
United Btates. and no diaatitfoction thereupon ex-
praaaed by the latter :"
It passed in the negative — yeas 9, nays 15, ai
follows ;
Yais.— Mossn. Bloodworth. Brown, Burr, Butler,
Henrv, Langdon. Martin, Robinson, and Tazewell.
Natb.— Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Foater. Gunn,
King, Latimer, Lirennore, Fotta, Read, Roaa, Rnther-
flird. Strong, Tattnall, and Trumbull.
And, on the queslicm to agree to the report, aa
amended, it passed in the mrmative— yeas, 14,
nays 11, as follows:
I.— Me«ni. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Foater,
Gunn, King, Latimer, Livermore, Fotta, Read, Rosa,
Rutherfurd, Strong,' end Trumbull.
Nits.— Mosars. Bloodworth, Brown, Bnir, Butler,
Henry, Langdon, Msrshall, Martin, Robinaon, Tattnall,
and Tazewell.
So the report was adopted, as follows :
" The report of the committee lo nhom was referred
the Meaaage of the Fnaident of the United Statea of
the 8lh of April, 179fi, relative to theTerritory of the
United Statea South of the river Ohio.
" By the Deed of Ceiaion of the State of Virginia,
tbe United Statea are bound lo lay off tbe Terrihny
Northwest of the river Ohio into Statea, not less than
one hundred nor more than one hnndrsd and fifty milea
squire. And, by the Ordinance of the 1 3th day of Ju'
1y, I78T, Congress re«>lved that, so aoon aa Virginia
should, by law, consent to the laying off the said Ter-
ritoty, so as to farm three Statea, that the same dionld
be bounded in the manner therein spedGcd. By the
same Ordinance the whole of the Territory of the Unit-
ad States Northneal of the Ohio la made one diatrict
for the purpose of lemponuy Government, and it ia
therein declared that, so soon aa any one of the said
Statea, so to be laid out as aforesaid, ^ould contain six-
ty thousand free inbabitanta, the same ahould be admit-
l«d by their Delegatea into Congress on an equal foot-
ing with the original States.
" On the 9th of July, 1767, the State of South Caio-
lina ceded, without any condition whatever, their clainu
to all landa lying between the Miaaiadppi and the ridga '
of mountaina which divides the Western from the Baat-
walers ; the same being South o£ and contiguooa
to, the TeiTttoiy ceded by North . Carolina, and unin-
habited except by Indiana.
" By the liesd of Ceeaion of the Sb
Una, of the lands therein described, i . .
tion that the Territory as ceded shall be laid ont, and
formed into a State or Sf ' ' "
.dbyGOOgle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Hat, 1796.]
pTWxertingt. [Sematb, 1796.
ofteiriloTj; Ihs inhibibiits of which ifaall enjo; all the
priiUtgM vt fbrthfnlhe Ordinuicefor the goremment
of the Wortem Toniloi; of the United Bum. B;
the let for the gorernment of the TmHorj of the Unit-
ad Slktea Booth (rf'the niet Obio, the whole of the nU
Territorjp, for the purpo« ort«niponi7 Government, ii
Diede one diibricl, ma it in declsred, that the iahabit-
int* thereof aheJI enjoy ill the piivilegec set tbrth in
Ihe OnJinuice for (ho Gotemment of the Territory of
the United States Norlhweel of the Ohio. Ai. ia the
Tmilorf Northwest of the Ohio, it ia necewarf that the
mmt ihtjt, by Congreaa, be laid out into States, accord-
ing to Ihe conditiona of die act of ceaaioD, or to the pro-
lirioni axpiuaaiid in the Ordinance of Congieee, and
tlitt roch State* alull each contain ality thouaand free
iihabitanta before they are entiUed to be admitted into
Ae Union; eo,!!! IfaeTerriloiy Southoftha Obio.Con-
peM aie obliged, ^ die act of oepion of North Ciro-
liiu, to lay ont the the Tenitoiy thereby ceded intb one
> more StMes, the inhdiitanli of which, aoioon aathey
rinll amount to nKty ihoiuand free pcnona, will be en-
lilled to be admitted into the Union.
" Congress hiTe deeUted that the whole of the Ter-
rilDfy Northwest of the Ohio shall, for the ptirpoee of
ttniparary GovemmeQt, cniopoae one diitrict ) and, like-
viar, that the whole of the Territory South of the Ohio
itall, for the like purpose, compose one district ; but
llitj have not deGnitivelj laid out the Territory Moith-
■nl of the Ohio into Statea, nor have they decided
■lielher the Territory South of Iho Ohio ahall be laid ont
■ito one or more Stetes. If the district Northwest of
titt Ohio contained more than aiity thousand tree in-
labitanta, it would not, from thence, follow that the
Datrict could demand admiaakin as a nenr Stale into
iIk Union, became lbs District moat, by the terms of
m (tasioD, be ^iceriowaly dtrided into a number of States,
it free inhabitants of each of which must amoiuit to
■ity thonsand, before sudi State wovM hate arigbt of
•^iaaion into the Union; in lika manner, although
the Diatrict Booth of the river Ohio should contain aiity
thouaand free iabsbitsnta, it eannat from thence be in-
fc^red, that the District, or that portion thereof, ceded
tij North Carolina, would have a right to be admitted
u a new Slate into the Union, - beeanae Congress have
HOI decided whether the same shall compose a single
State,or be laid out into two or more States. Thenum-
W ol inbsbiuntB which eit&bliahes a claim of -admiaaien
nut be the number of inhabitants of a State pre^onalj
laid oal, and defined in its bonndsriea by Congresa, and
w>t the number of inbabitanla of a Territory which, for
the pnrpoae of temporary Government, composes a Di>-
tnct which may be dividsd by Congreaa into aevaral
Btalas.
' Hence ranlts this cendtiBion ;
' That Congress mnat have previously enacted that the
■hole of the lenilory ceded by North CaiTdiiia,and wliidl
■ Hily a part of the Territory of the United Stalea
&Bth of the Ohio, ahoold be laid out by Congress for
ne Stale, befine the inhabitants thereof (sdmitting
them to amount to sixty thouaand frea peraona) could
<^ain to be sdmilled ai a new State into the Union.
" Had the Territory Bonth of the Ohio, which, for
the pnipoae of temporary Oovemment, composes
'itntt,b(en laid out by CongrsH into one Stale,
mo mention of the inlubilants, in order to ascer
vhelher nich Suio was entitled to be received into
<he original State*, (iiT the pnrpese of apportioning the
Repreeenlatives, and ascertaining a rule for Ihe appor<
tionment ol direct taiea, must, by the Constitution, be
made by Congress, and cannot be made by tfae indivi-
dual Stales. And, aa the rights of the original States,
aa membera of tbe Union, are affected by the admiaeio'D
of new States, tbe ssme principle which enjoins the
eeiuos of thoir inhabitants to be taken under the ao-
Ihori^ of Congreae, reqnirea the enumeration of the
inhalntanta of any new Slate laid out by Congreaa, in
like manner to t>e made under their authority. Did
not the principles of tbe Constitudon aeem to leave
Congrtes wilhoDt discretion on this point T 'Yet Ihe
propriety of the enumeration being made under their
authority will be manifeet, on comparing the fifth aeo-
tion of the law for Ihe enumeration of the inhabitants
of the United Slates with Che [sw under which the cen-
ani has lately been taken in the Territory South of Ihe
Ohio. By ^ia compariaon it nill be perceived that the
guarda sgaisat error, provided in tbe former law, are
omitted in Ihe latter, and that, inalead of confining
the enumeration to the free mhabitants of the Territory
South of the Ohio, the law authoriiea and requires the
enumeration of £1 the peopte within the said Territory
at any time within the term allowed to comjdeto the
same, including as well Ihepersons casually within or
paanng throngh the said Territoiyt aa tlie mhabitanla
" From Ihe preceding view of the snlyect, die oom*
mittee are of ofunion tlut tbe iabatutant* of that pail
of Ihe Territory South of Ihe Ohio, ceded 1^ North
Carolina, are not at this time entitled to be received as
a new State into the Unioo.
" But, as the said tarrilory ceded by North Carolina
may, by Congress, be Isid out into one Stale, although,
from Iha distance between its extreme parts, the inha-
bitants thereof may thereby be eiposed to some woOD-
venience, and, as it appeals to be the demre of a majo-
rity of the inhabitants of the saiil Territory to be re-
ceived as a new Slato into the Union, the committee
recommend that leave be given to bring in a bill laying
ont the whole of the said lerritoiy ceded by North
Carolina into one State, and providing for an enumera-
tion of the inhabitants thereof, in the manner prescribed
in the act, entitled ' An act^ providing for the enumera-
tion of the inhabitants of the United Stales,' paaaed on
the 1st day of March, 1790."
Ordered, That the report be recommitted, and
that the committee be iikitructed to bring in a bill
accordingly.
The bill providing posspotta for the ships and
vessels of the United States, was read tbe second
time and amended.
Ordered, That thisbill pais to the third reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report o[
the commiiiee to whom was referred the bill, en- .
titled " An at:! in addition to an act, entitled < An
act supple meatary to the act, entitled ' An act to
Srovide more eflectually for the coUectioii of the
utiesoQ goods, wares, and roercbandise, imported
into the Uoiled Slates, and on the tonnage of
ships or vessels;" which waa adopted, and the bill
amended accordingly.
Oriieret^ That this bill pass to (he third reading.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that tbe House have passed
a bill, entitled ** An act makins an additional al-
lowance to certain public officers for (be year
.dbyGoogle
9S
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Proceeding:
[MiT, 1796.
1796," i« which they deure the concuiieuce of
the Senate.
The bill last brought fioDi the House ofRepre-
aenlatiTes for ecacarrence, was read, and ordered
Ui a tecsnd reading.
Tetsels of l1
timft and nassed.
The bit! sent from the House of Representa-
Htcs for concurrence, entitled " Aij act making
an additiooal allowance to certain public officers
for the year 1796," was read the second lime, and
referred to Messrs. Gun«, Butleh, Brown, Bohb,
and SiKONOito considei: and report thereon to the
Senate.
The bill sent frooi the Hou.se of Reptesenta-
tive^ for concurrence, entitled "An act making
provision for the payment of certain Debts of the
United States," was read the third time.
Oa motion to sxpunge the ckuse, agreed to
J'esterday, in addition to the third section, as
nUovs:
" And it ihall be lawful fer the CommiasioiMra of the
Sinking Fond, if they shaU find the aame i
■dimntageoui, to hU ntch aad w maoy of
«f the bMh^ of the Bank of the VaUxA States, bekmiB-
'mg to the Uutcd Statea, »■ tfaey may tlunk proper ; i|id
diat they awly the pnmedi thereof to the peymsnt of
the said Defata^ inetead of aellin( ceitifioalea at stock,
in the manner pieicnbed in this, act:"
It pMsed in the negatire — yeas 8, nays 12,
Tkas. — Memo. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Onnn,
Latimer, Lirennore, Strong, and Trumbull.
Nati. — Mean*. Bloodwarth, Brown, Butler, Henry,
Lang^n, Handiall, Martin, Potta, Robinson, Ruther-
ftird, Tattnall, and TaieweU.
On motion to insert, lu the ajaendment agreed
to yesterday, to the third section, after the word
" proper," tne following words : " ao far as may be
consistent with existing laws .'" it passed in tbe
negative — yeas 12, nays 13, as follows :
Yiis. — Meaars. Bingham, Bradford, Burr, Cabot,
Ounn, King, Latimer, Read, Rosa, RuthoiiWd, Blrong,
and Trumbull.
Nati. — Hesar*. Bloodworth, Brown, Butler, Foiler,
Heniy, Lsngdoa, Liveimore, Manhall, Martin, Potts,
Robinson, TaUnall,and Tazewell.
On motion to insert after ibe word "thai," sec-
tion third, line first, tnese words: "for two mil'
lioiks of the aforesaid five millions :" it passed in
tbe Degatire.
On motion, it was agreed to insert, at the end of
the amendment to the first section, the following
words: "and to sell the stock received for sucn
loan."
On the question to agree to the bill as amended,
it was determined in the afBtitiatiTe — yeas 14,
nays 10, as follows;
Yiis. — Meoin. Bingbam, Brown, Burr, Heniy,
Langdon, Latimer, MaraliBll, Martin, Pottt, Bobinsou,
SoM, Rotheiflud, Tattnall, and Taiewell.
Naib— HeMra. Bradford, Bntlei, C^rat, Foato,
Gunn, King, Liveimore, Read, Btiong, and TrambuU.
So it was resolved that this bill pass as amended.
A messBge fnira the Honse of RepresentatiTcc
informed the Senate that tlie House have passed
a bill, entitled " An act regutating tbe grants of
land appropriated for military services, and for
the Society of the United Brethren for propagat-
ing the Gospel among the Heathen ;" and a bill,
entitled " An act altermg the compensation of the
Accountant of the War Dcparlmentj in which
'.ey desire the concurrence of tbe Senate.
The bills last mentioned were severaUy read,
&Dd ordered to a second reading.
motion, it was agreed, by unanimoos con-
to dispense with the rule, and that the bilL
entitled " An act regulating the grants of land ap-
propriated for military services and for the Society
of the United Brethren for propagating the Oos-
pel among the Heathen," be now read a teccwd
OnUred, That this bill b« referred to Messrs.
Rosa, Read, and Kino, to consider and report
thereon to tbe Senate.
The bill sent from the House of Representa-
res for concurrence, entitled "An act in addition
an act, entitled 'An act supplementary to an
;t, entitled 'An act to provide more effectually
for the collection of the duties on goods, wares,
and merchandise, imported intci the United Slater
and on the tonnage of ships or vessels," was read , ^
the third time, and sundry amendments agreed to. ,
Ordered, Thai the furtner cousidetation thereof |
be postponed until to-morrow.
The Senate proceeded to consider tbe report of
the committee to whom was referred the bill, eO'
tilled "An act to ascertain and £z the Military
Establishment of the United Slates ;" and, atter
debate,
Oratred, That the bill, together with the amend-
ments, be recommitted ; and that Mr. Robs be of
the committee in place of Mr. Frelinqbutbeit,
absent by permission ; and the committee are in-
situeced to report generally thereon.
WEunEHDAY, May 18.
The bill sent from the House of Representa-
res for concurrence, entitled "An act altering
the compensation of the Accountant of the War
Department," was read the second time, and re-
ferred to the committee appointed on the bill, en-
titled "An act making an additional allowance to
certain public officers fur the year IT96," to con-
sider and report to the Senate.
Mr. BiNOHAHifrom the committee to whom was
referred the memorial of the citizens of the Unit-
ed States who have sufiTered from French spolia-
tions, reported :
" That, considering the ailTanred period of tbe see-
lion, it will be expedient to refer the eaid memorial to
the Becretaiy of Stale, in order thi.t be nsj inveatigat*
the nature and extent of tbe claims cibibited therein,
■nd report on the same at the neit meeting of Conr
And the report was adopted.
;dbvGoogle
m^rosr of congbebs.
98
May, 1796.]
[Sn
Mr. RcTHERPCHD. from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled " An act Itying da-
ties on caTriages for the cqnveyance of person^
and repealing the fonnei act for that purpose,"
reported ameDdments; which were in part adopt-
ed ; and the bill ins ametided accordingly.
Ordered. That Ais bill paas to the tfaird reading.
Mr. KtNQ, from the committee instructed for
that parpose, reported a bill laying oat into one
State the territory ceded by the State of North
Carolina to the United States, and providine for
an enumeration of the inhabitants (hereof; wnich
bill was read, and ordered to a second reading.
Mr. Cabot, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill to regulate the Mint of the Unit-
ed States, and to punish frauds by counterfeiting
the coins thereof, or otherwise, reported a new
bill ;< which was read and ordered to a seotmd
reading.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a resolution that the pBesinEirr of the Senate
and Speaker of the House of Representatives be
■nihorized to close the present session, by adjourn-
ing their respectire Houses on Wednesday, the
25(h instant ; also, a bill, entitled " An act in ad-
dition to an aat, entitled ' Ad act to establish the
Post Office and Post Roads within the United
Scales;" in which bill and resolution they desire
the concDiTence of the Senate.
The resolution last brought from the House of
SepresentatiTes for concurrence, was read, and
ordered to lie for consideration.
The bill last brought Iram the Honse of Repre-
■eataltrei for concurrence, was read twice, and
Ua consideration postponed to the next seasion of
CoDffress.
Toe Senate resumed the third reading of the
bill sent from the Honse of Represent atires for
eoDCDrrenee, entitled "An act in addition to an
act, entitled 'An act supplementary to the act,
entitled ' An act to provide more effectuaUy for
the collection of the duties on goods, wares, and
merchandise, imported into the United States, and
on the toimage of ships or Tessels."
On motion, it was agreed to inaerl the foUow-
■og words after " vessels,'' in section four, line
Ibor, " and, also, all proviaons by law relative to
expwis and drawbacks."
On iDotiott to add the following to the end of
the fourth section :
•■ PnaUed akauy*. That ^iiifdirtHed fma donas-
lit ■ ilMislii. taporUd Itj WS7 of As Miasisrafii, shall
ks •■tttUd to a ^wteek, dthoa^ eapoitad m veaasls
«r Ism Aan thirty tooa boidsa :"
It passed in the negative.
Retalved, That this bill ptsu as amended.
TuBflOAY, May 19.
The bill s«nt from the House of Representa-
tives for eoncnrrenee, entitled " An act laring du-
ties on carriages for the eonvejrance of persons,
and repealing the former act for that purpose,"
was read the third time.
On motion, tp strike oat, from section 1st, line
ith, these words : " And upon every other two
wheel carriage;" it passed in the negative.
On motion, to insert in section lU, line SSth,
af\er the words, " two dollars," the following
words: "for and upon ever^ other two wheel
carriage, the yearlv sum of one dollar and a
half:" it passed in Ine negative.
" I motion, it was ^eed to amend the first
an, line 14th, by inserting, afUr the words
" top carriage," Che following words; "and upon
every two wheel carriage having or resting upon
steel or iron springs ; and, aUo, to insert in the
same section, line 15th, aiier the word '- carriage"
' the first place, (he following words, "the yearly
im of two dollars."
Retolved, That this bill pass with the amend*
ents,
Mr. Tattnall, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled " An act for the re-
lief of Moses Myers," reported that the bill pass
without amendment.
Ordered, That the consideration of the report
be postponed.
Mr. Ognh, from the committee to whom was
recommitted the amendments to the bill, entitled
"An act to ascertain and fix the Military Estab-
lishment of the United States," reported further
amendments, which were adopted, and the bill
was amended accord in^l v.
Ordered, That this bill pass to the third read-
ing as amended; and that the amendments be
printed for the use of the Senate.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House had passed
the bill, sent from the Senate for concurrence, en-
titled " An act for (he relief of persons imprisoned
for debt," with amendments; in which they de-
sire the concurrence of the Senate. Also, that
the House had passed a bill, entitled " An act
making further provision for the expenses attend-
ing the intercourse of the United States with
foreign nations, and to continue in force the act,
entitled ' An act providing the means of inter-
conrse between the United States and foreign na-
tions:" also, a bill, entitled "An act directing
certain experiments to be made to ascertain uni-
form standards of Weights and Measures for the
United Statei" in which bills they desire the
concurrence oi the Senate.
The bills last brought from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence were read, and ordered
to a second reading.
FaiMTiHay SO.
The bill, sent fVom the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled "An act altering
the compensation of the Accountant of the War
Department," was read the third lime, and passed.
Mr. Qchn, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled " An act m^ing an ad-
ditional allowance to certain public officers for
the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-
six, reported, that the further consideration there-
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Sbhatb.]
Prwxedatgt.
[Mat, 1796.
of be posipoDcd until the next semion of Cdd-
giesa.
Ordered, That the coaaideration of the report
bepostponed UDtil to-morrow.
The Senate reaumed the coDsideration of the
report of the committee to wbom was referred
the bill, entitled " An act for tbe relief of Moses
Myers," aod ibe report waa not adopted.
On motion to agree to the bill; as follows:
" Be tl enacted by the Senate and Hmat of Repre-
tentative^ of the Untted Staiet of Ameriea in Congrtu
auembltd. That tba CoUnctor of the Cnitonu for the
port of Noilblk and PortamDutli be, and ha ia berebjr,
antiiorized to have aaceitained the late of damage lui-
tained bj Moae* Mjeta, on the gooda contained in the
twan^-^iree baJea, eaaes, and trunk*, of inerchandlH,
nnladen &om on board the French ihtp-of^war, dis
Jean Bart, and which were damaged by the OTeraet-
ting of the acliooner Quantico; and remit to the aaid
HiMea Mjara the duties, in proportion to the damage
anataiued on the good* damaged aa albiesaid :"
Taas^-Meaars. Bloodwoith, Brown, Butler, Foater,
Heniy, Langdon, Martin, Strong, Tattnall, and Taie-
wen.
Nats. — Heatra. Bradfind, Burr, Ounn, King, Lati-
m«r, Livermore, Potta, Read, Roai, Rutherfuid, and
Tnunbnll.
Od the qiiesiJoD that the bill pass to the third
reading, it passed in the negative.
So it waa, Resolved, That the Senate do not
concur in this bill.
The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ments of the House of RepresentatJTes to the
bill, entitled "An act for the relief of persona
imprisoned for debt," and on motion, it was agreed
to concur is the nrst of the proposed amend-
On the question to agree to the following
amendment, to wit: strike out the second anG
third aecltons, and insert the following :
" And bt it further enaeted. That ponona impriaoned
for debt, under procoaa from the Courts of the United
States, shall have the aame benefit of the laws of their
respective States, tor ^e relief of persona imprisaned
for debt, and the aame right of diachargs from con-
finainent, which thej would have if imprisoned nnder
prooea of their reapactivB States : And that the Judges
of the District Coarta in the Sutea, respectively, shall
be, and are herebj, authorited to commission such per-
son* as thaj maj think proper, and give them the
powers neeessaij fbr eiecuting the provitians of the
•aid law* a{ their mpective States: Proeided, That
nothing herein contained ahall prevent the suing ant
process against the estate of a driitor, at any time after
his diacharge; anj thing in the laws of the reapectivo
State* to the contraij nolwitfastanding :"
It passed in the negative — yeas 7, nays 14, as
folio
Ttaa— Heaan. Bloodworih, Brown, Barr, ManAall,
Martin, Robinson, and Taiewell.
Nats, — Mesara. Binghnm, Bradfonl, Foster, Gnnn,
Henrj, Latimer, Livermore, Potts, Rnad, Roas,Ruther-
fhrd. Strong, Tattnall, and TmtnbulL
Saolved, That the Senate agree to the first,
and disagree to all the other amendments to the
said bill.
A message from the House of Repreaentatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled '' An act concerning the post road
from Portl^d, in Maine, to Iftvannah, in Qeor-
eia;" in which they desire the coticurrenee of the
Senate. They disagree to the Grat, and agree to
the other amendment of the Senate to the bill,
entitled "An act altering tbe compensation of
the Accountant of the War Department
The bill last brought from tbe House of Rep-
referred to Messrs. Potts, Gdnh, and STBonoito
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The Senate proceeded to consider the retiolu-
tion of the House of Representatives, disagree-
ing to their first amendment to the bill, entitled
''An act altetiDK the compensation of tbe Ac-
countant of the War Department i" and.
Retoleed, That they do recede from their said
first amendment.
The bill respecting the Mint was read the sec-
ond and third times, and passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled " An act to ascei^
tain and fix the Military Establishment of tbe
United States," was read ihethirdtime,and passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, entitled ''An set directing
nprtain experiments to be made to ascertain uni-
form standards of Weights end Measures for the
United States," was read the second tim>, and
referred to Messrs. Rdthbbpdbd, TazEVBLt^ and
Mabtih, to consider and report thereon to the
The bill, laying out into one Slate the territory
ceded by the State of North Carolina to the
United Slates, and providing for an enumeration
of the inhabitants thereof, was read the. second
Ordered, That the consideration of this bill be
the order of the day for to-morrow.
Mr. Bdrb, from the committee to whom was
referred the Report of the Attorney General, of
the 38th of April last, respecting the lands situated
in the Southwestern parU of the Unit^ Statea,
together with the papers therein referred to, re-
ported, aa follows:
"Whereas, fivm documents laid before Congreia,
punniant to a reaolution of the third day of March, one
thoosand aeven hnndred and ninety-five, ([UaatioD* ap-
pear to ariae aa la a claim of the United Sutea, as weD
of property as junadictiDn, of certain land* within the
bounds loUowing, to wit : nftth by the co«aiop of Sooth
Carolina, west 1^ the Miaaiasipju, sooth bj the thirty-
fiist degree of latitnde, and east by the riveir Chatahaa-
dice and a line from the head Ihereof doe north to tbe
South Cannula cessioni the jarisdictlon of which tar-
rili»7 is also claimed by the State of Georgia, and the
IHoperty thereof, or of certain parts thereof, as well by
the State of Georgia, ts by ',«rtaia individual* claiming
under the aaid State; and wharaaa it ia highly expe-
dient that the right* of the partioa, as well to property
t to juriadicljon, should be aacertainad and declanid,
,db,Googlc
101
HI8T0HT OP CONGRESS..
Mat. 1796lJ
Pneetdingt.
[Sbhati.
■d A>t Ih* HUi^af Ihoaa eUnung or hriding ilianld
bi iptklaj, Mtd mal piDTUuMi aboiild be muie for the
leat|fiy GoranuiMiit of the inlubiUnts of tha tsni'
Hn ^Rnid ; il is Uurefbre
Maohtd, That the PresiJeDt of the Unlled 8Ut«
te Kalharasd to tntat and conclude (aubject tn the nti-
teatido SI dineDt of CoDgrsM) with the State of Geoi-
fia, far (be coaion of the dtiiD of laid Btate to jnriB-
Action in and trwm the said temtor;, and to adopt inch
mtmniM aa to hun ahall aeeai cipedieal (aubject to the
fatoi* ijjiirobatioa cf Congreai) for aaeertainins, de-
dannc oomfinninK, bj an agreement to be entered in
iM^iaaiB the partioa albreaud, their mpective elaima
tlwtamtny afiWHaud.
Saooadlj. That, aa aoni u the taliieatunu of tl
Treaty ta*^ ooDdndad with Hia Catholic M^^ ahall
be caAaaced, the Praddent of the United Btatea be
awtfami— I to ealabHah a tenipararr Ooraniment in and
0<iar tha inhabitsnta of all that tract of country lying
within tba terfitoij aforaaaid, and bounded aa follows,
» wit: weat faj the Miaaiaaippi, nwth by a line lo be
^awn doa eaat from tba month of the Yaioo lo
T^alahiiaii hiai. fiaat bj the Chatahouehae, and aouth bj
■hw tfab^-ftnit d^Tse of lahtude, oiKifbimablj widi the
I of CongnM at the Ihirteenlh day of July,
I hundred and oi^tfTaeVen ; auch
ent to cootinna until Ihe end of the
of CongTEB, without prejudice to the right
^ any Slata or ipdiridual whataoever."
Or^red^ Thit the report be printed for the
■M of the Semite.
SiTDHDir, May 31.
fhe bill, aenl from the Houae of Representa-
nves for eODCorrence, entitled ■' An act mahiiiic
fBTthcr proviaiaD for the expenses attending the
■Btf reonne of the United Stare* with foreign na-
tions ; and to continue in force the act, entitled
' An tici proTidJDf; the means of intercourse be-
(■ecu the United States and foreign natioaa,' "
was read the second lime, and referred to Measrs.
BmoBAii, Takbwbll,, and Stbong, to consider
ind report thereon to the Senate.
On motioD, to take into considention the reso-
btioo of the House of Representatirei, to ad-
)oam on the 25th instant; it wat agreed thai it
dtoold be postponed.
The Smate resumed the second reading of the
biU. bying otii into one State the territorf ceded
br (be State of North Carolina lo the United
Bales, and proriding for an enameration of the
lohabilants thereof.
A letter, signed William Cocke, purporting that
WisappoinlrtI ■ Senator for the State of Ten-
iriiii. and claiming' a seat in the Senate, was
pmeBiedand read-
Ordend, Tbmt il lie oo tbe table.
MoHDAT, May 23.
Mr BaAi>roBD, froai the committee lo whom
«. ».-.rrMJ the bUl. entitled "Au act altering
" Ztrted «ooeDdmciit8. which were read.
•^"^Itaki from themanagen at the conference
*'r „r.'of »»»• ScMie, 00 the disagraeiog
n tbe p»'* "'
rotes of Ihe Iwo Houses, on the hill, entitled
" An act for ihe relief and protection of Americaa
seamen," repotted certain roodi£catioDs to the
bill, as agreed to by the joint conunillee of con-
A message from the House of RepreseDlatires
iiifoimed the Senate thai the House hare passed the
bill sent from the Senate for concurrence, eoiilled
"An act to regulate the compensation of clerlu;"
yith an amendmeni, in which they desire the
concurrence of the Senate. They aicree to the
amendments of the Senate to the bill, entitled
"An act laying duties on carriages for the coO'
reyance of persons, and repealing the former act
for that purpose;" with an amendment to the
seventh amendment, in which they desire the
concurrence of the Senate. They agree to the
report of the joint committee of conference, re-
specting the amendments proposed by the Senate
to the bill, entitled "An act for Ihe relief and
protection of American seamen." They insist
on their amendments, disagreed to by the Senate,
to the bill[ entitled '■ An act for the relief of per-
sons imprisoned for debt ;" ask a conference there-
on, and hare appointed managers at the same on
their parL They agree to some, and disagree to
Other, amendments of the Senate to the bill, enti-
tled "An act to ascertain and fix the Military
Establishment of the United States." They have
passed a bill, entitled " An act lo suspend, in part,
the act, entitled ' An act lo alter and amend the
act, entitled 'An act laying certain duties upon
anufi* and refined sugar;" and a. bill entitled ' An
act limiting the time for the allowance ot draw-
back on the exportation of domestic distilled spi-
riis, and allowing a drawback npon sucb spinia
exported in resads of leas than thirty tons, by the
Mississippi ;" in which bills they desire the con-
currence of the Senate.
The Senate took into consideration Ihe resoln-
in of the House of Representatives adopting the
report of the joint commillee of conlerence, on
the bill, entitled "An act for the relief and protec-
tion of American seamen ;" and,
Raaived. That the consideration thereofbepoet-
poned until to-morrow.
The Senate took into consideration the resoli»-
tion of the House of Representatives, itisiating OB
their amendmenta, disagreed to by the Senate, to
the bill, entitled " An act for the relief of persons
ipiiaoned for debt;" and asking a conference
thereon.
Beaolved, That Ihey do agree to Ihe proposed
conference, and that Messrs. Strong and Potts
managers at the same on the part of the Se-
nate.
The bills last brought from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence were severally read,
and ordered to a second reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ment of the Honse of Jtepresenlaiives to the bill,
entitled " An acl to regulate the compensation ot
ilerks ;» and.
meat of the House of RepreseniaiiTea lo their
.dbyGoogle
.HISTOBT OF C0N6BES8.
Proceeding:
CMat. 1796.
lerenth amendmeDt to Che bill, entitled " Ad act
laying duties on carriages for Ine conveyance of
petsotis, and repealing the former act for that pnr-
Raolved^ That the Senate conciu in the said
amendtnent.
The Soiate proceeded to conxtder the amend-
in«K3 diMgreea to by the House of Representa-
tives to the bill, entitled " An act to ascertain and
fix the Militai; Establish men t of the Unite^
Sutes;" and,
Raolved, That the Senate insist on their amend-
ments disagreed to.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
the committee to whom was referred the bill, en-
titled "'An act making- an additional allowance to
certain public officers for the year one thousand
aeven hundred and ninety-six ;" which wa£ adopt'
ed, and the bill was accordingly postponed to the
next session of Congress.
A message from the House of KepresentaliTes
informed ine Senate that the House insist on
their amendment to the bill, entitled '' An act to
r^nlale the compensation of clerks." They in-
tiat on their disablement to the ameudmencs of
the Senate to the bill, entitled " An act to ascer-
tain and Ox the Military EstabUshmanl of the
United States," ask a conference thereon, and
have appointed managers at the same on their
part. T^ey agree to the first, and disagree tc
the other amendmentsof the Senate to the bill,
titled " Anactinadditiontoanact.enlitled ' Aua.:t
supplementary to the act, enlillea ' An act to pro-
vide more eS^tually for the collection of the du-
ties on goods, wares, and merchandise imported
into the United States^ and on the tonnage of ships
or vessels." They have passed the hill, sent from
the Senate for eoncurrenoe, enliiled "An ac
specling [he Mint," with an amendment ; in which
they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Senate resumed the considenition, in para-
graphs, of the bill laying out into one State the
territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to
the United Slates, and providing for an ennn^ —
tion of the inhabitants thereof.
A letter, signed WiUiam Blount and William
Cocke, was read, staling chat they have been duly
«nd legally elected Senators to represent theState
of Tennessee in the Senate.
On motion,
" Th&t Mr. Blonnt uid Mr. Cocke, who claim to be
Senators of the United Suies, be receiTsd u apeclkton,
snd that chairs be pnrrided for that poipose until the
final ieaaon of the Senate shall be given on the bill
proporing to admit the Soudiwestem Tenitor; into ~
A motion was made to refer the consideration
thereof to a committee ; and it passed in thi
gative.
On motion to agree to, the original motio
oassed in the affirmaUve — yeas 12, nays 11, ai
Tiia. — Meiers. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler,
Foster, Henry, Langdon, Martin, Fotts, Robinson., Talt-
BaU,aBdTaMWBll.
N.>Ta<— lIeasra.BiB^iim,BBdfeid,6wu, LMbdw,
Lirermore, Marshall, Head, Boaa. Hulhsifunl, Stmnft
and TrambnU.
After debate, the further consideration of the
bill last mentioned was postponed until to-mor-
A letter from Rnpne Kiho was read, stating
that he bad accepted the appointment of Minister
Plenipotentiary at the Court of London, and te-
(igninghis seat in the Senate.
Mr. FoTTB, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled "An act concerning the
post road from Portland, in Maine, to SaTaonsJi,
in Gewgia," reported that the bill pass without
amendment.
ToESDAT, May 24.
The Senate considerad the report of the eom-
ittee to whom was -referred the bill, enlttled '' An
act concerning the post road from Portland, ia
Maine, to Savannah, in Georgia;" and the report
was not agreed to.
On motion that this bill pass to the third read-
ing, it was determined in the negatire. Bo the
bifi was rejected.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives,
entitled " An act to suspend, in part, the act, en-
titled ' An act to. alter and amend the act, entitled
'An act laying certain duties upon snun and re-
fined sugar^' was reed a second time, and referred
to Messrs. Biiidhah, Stbono, and Henbt, to con-
sider and report thereon to the Senate. .
The bill, sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act limiting the
time for the allowance of drawback on the export-
ation of domestic distilled spirits, and allowing a
drawback upon such spirits, exported in vessels of
less than thirty tons, by the Mississippi," was read
the second time, and referred to the committee
last mentioned, to consider and report thereon to
the Senate.
Mr. Stroko reported, from the manasersatthe
conference on the bill, entitled "An aclfor the re-
lief of persons imprisoned for debt," that they had
agreed to sundry amendments.
Mr. RuTHGHFCfin. from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, sent froni the House of Re-
presentatives for ctHicurrenee, entitled " An act
relative to quarantine," reported, that the bill be
amended, by inserting after the word "that," ''un-
til general regulations relative to quarantine are
made by law." And, on the question to agree to
the report, it was determined in the negative.
Ordered, That the bill pass to the third reading.
The Senate proceeded lo consider the report of
the managers at the conference on the disagreeing
votes of the two Houses, on the bill, entitled " An
act for the r^ief and protection of American sea-
On motion, to postpone the further coDsideia-
lion of this bill to the next session of Congress, it
passed in the negative.
On motion, lo modify the report of the confer-
ees, so as that the surveyor, inilead of the collect-
ed byGoOglc
fflSTORY OP CONGRESS.
Hat, 1796.]
Proceeding t.
[Shhlti,
or, be the certifyiiig offioef, it was ruled not lo be
in order. Whereupon,
Ituolved, That the Senate Agree to the report
of [fae jdiat cominiltee of coofereace on the said
bill. Bad thai the bill be aiaeaded accordiiiKly-
The Senate proceeded to convider ihe amend-
mem of the House of Representatives to the bill,
entitled '' An act respecting the Mint."
iUtobied, That they do concur therein.
The Senate proceeded lo consider the resalu-
tion of the House of Representatives, insistjog on
their amendment to the bill, entitled '' An act to
regulate the compeBWtion of clerks;" and^
AMofwd, That they insist on their disagree-
ment Co the &aid amendment.
The Senate caaHidered the resolution of the
House of Representatives disagreeing to sundry
tmendments of the Senate to the bill, entitled " An
Kt in addition to an act, eaiitled ' An act lupple-
mi;ntary to the act, entitled ' An act to provide
more effectually for the oollection of the duties on
toods, waret, and merchandise imported into the
Uoited States, end on the tonnage of ships and ves-
Rfoivtd, That they do recede from their said
tmendments.
The Senate eoasideied the reaolution of the
Hause of Reprettntatives, insisting on their disa-
greement to the amendments to the bill, entitled
-An act to ascertain and fix the Hiliury Kstab-
iisbment of the United States," and asking a con-
ference thereon ; and,
Rtaolved, That tbey do agree to the proposed
Nnference, and that Messrs. Gunn and Rosb be
managers at the same on the part of the Senate.
The Senate considered the report of the com-
mittee to whom was referred the bill, entitled
~&n act alietingthesessioasof the Circuit Courts
ia theDistrictiof Vermont and Rhode Island, and
Sw other purposes," which was adopted ; and the
bill was amended accordingly.
Ordered, That this bill pass to the third reading.
The Senate resumed tne consideration of the
bill laying oat into one State the territory ceded
W the Slate of N(»th Carolina to the United
Stales, ami providing for the enumeration of tbe
iakabiiaats thereof; and, after debate, the further
UDsidetation thereof «ras postponed until lo-mor-
Wednbbday, May 2S.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tires for coDcurrence, entitled ^ An act relative to
IBsrantine," was read the third time, and passed.
The bill, sent from the Honse a[ Represeuta'
ti'ei for concurrence, entitled " An act altering
■be Kssions of the Circuit Courts in the Districts
of Vermont and Rhode Idand, and for other pur-
ptW:" was read the third timfe, and passed.
Hi. BiaaaAH, from the committee to whom
wu referred the bill, entitled " An act making
farther provision for the expenses attending the
toiercourte of the United States with foreign na-
UoB*, and to continue in force the act, entitled
Aoaci providing the maaoi of intercourse be-
4tb Con.— S
Iween the United States and foreign nations," re-
ported that thebill pass without amendmeut ; and
the report being read, was adopted.
Ordertd, That this bill pa^s to the third reading.
Onmolioti.by Mr.BnHR,
Ordered That the Presldbnt be requested to
notify tbe Eiecutive of the Stale of New York
that R[;ru3 iCino hath accepted the appoialment
ofMinistcr Plenipoienliary from the United Stales
lo the Court of London, and that his seat in the
Senate is vacated.
Tbe Senate jjroceeded to consider the report of
the joint commillee of conference on the hill, en-
titled " An act for the relief of persona imprisoned
for debt:" whereupon,
Retolved, That they concur in the amendments
to ibe bill accordingly.
The following MeEsagc wa!> received from the
President of the United States:
Gtnlltnitn of the Saiate, and
of ikt Hoate of ReprtteniaHvt* .-
The nies*aies now in operation for taking possession
of the ptwta of Detroit and Mtehilimsckinac, render it
proper that proviBion should be made for ejtendtng to
these placet, and any otben alike circuinitanced, the crrQ
authoii^ of the NorthneMem Tenitoi;. To do this
will require an eipense, to defr»j whidi the otdinaty
salaries of the Goveinor and Secretary of that Tenito-
rj appear to be incompetent.
The forming of a new eonnlj or new eonnties, and
the appointmant of the various officers, which the just
exercise of Government mnrt require, will oblige the
Governor and SKretaiy to vint th«M places, and to
spend cooaidetablB time In making the utangements
necesBBiT for introdneing and estabhslnng the Govem-
nwit of the United States. Congreaa will OMuidar
wbat proviaion will in this case be proper.
G. WASHINGTON.
Uarrin Statu, May, 1T06.
The Message was read, and ordered to lie for
consideration.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill laying out into one State the territory ceded
by the Slate of North Carolina lo the United
Slates, and providing for the enumeration of the
inhabitants thereof.
On motion to strike out, from the word "in-
habitants," section 1st, line 33d, to the end of the
bill, and insert as follows :
** And whereas satis&etory evidenee has been reeeiv
ad that the aid State did, on the 1 Itfi January, 1790-
contain a greater number of free inhabitants than 60,000,
all leapeeta accord with the Aitidei of the Compact be-
tween the United States and the said inhabitants :
" Be it therefore fiirtAereiiaeted, That the said State
ahallba, and the aome is hereby, reeetved into the Union
as a fires and independent S^te, under the name and
tide of The State of Tenneaeee,' on an equal tboting
with the original Statea, in all leqMct* whatevar.
•' And be it furiher enaeied, That, until the noit
general censoa, the said State of Tennessee ahall be en-
titled to one Repreeentative in the House of Kepno^
tativea of ^le United States, and in sU olhei reniects,
as Eu a* they may bespphcabte, Ihe laws of the tfnitad
Btalsa dull aitend to, and have force in, the State of
.dbyGOOgle
lor
raSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Prwxedingt.
[Mat, 1796.
TemiMBee, in tlie mae muiner h if that State had
origiiull; been a membei of the Union."
A motion was made and agreed to, that the
queation be divided, and be taken on striking out
from the word " iohabiiants," section 1st, line 33d.
And o>i the question for striking out. il pasced
in the negative— yeas 11, nays 12, as follows:
Ytu. Hewn. Bloodwoitli, Brown, Bun, Butlei,
Heniv, Langdon, Hanlull, HartiQ, Robinaon, Tattnall,
and TaMwell.
NiTii—Meaara. Bingham, Bradfiud, Foatsr, Ounn,
Latimer, LivenoOTB, Potl^ Bead, Roes, Rutheiford,
Strong, and Trumbull
And after agreeing lo sundry amendmeots, the
bill was ordered to a third reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tion of the House of Representatives, of the 8lh
instant, proposing that the two Houses adjourn on
this day; and,
Revived, That they do not agree thereto.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
report of the committee to whom was referred
the bill, entitled " An act for compensating Jona-
than Hastings, Deputy Postmaster at Boston, for
On the question to agree to the first enacting
claaw, il passed in the negative.
On the question to agree that the bill pass to
the third reading, it passed in the negative. So
the bill was rejected.
Tbubbdat, May 26.
Mr FoBTEB reported from the committee to
whom was referred the bill, entitled " An act for
the relief of Sylvanus Bourne," that the bill pass
without amendment; which report was adopted.
The bill was then read a third time, and passed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled " An act tnaking further
provision for the expenses auending the inter-
course of the United States with foreign nations,
and to continue in force the act, entitled 'Ao
act providing the means of interconrae between
the United Stales and foreign nations," was read
the third time, and passed.
A message from the House of Kepreaeniatives
informed the Senate that they agree to some, dis-
agree to some, and have amended other, amend-
ments of the Senate to the bilL entitled "An act
making provision for the rayment of certaii
Debts of the United States." They have passed
bill entitled "An act lo indemnify the estate of
the' late Major General Nathaniel Greene, for
ceruin bond entered into by him during the la
war;" in which ihey desire the concurrence of the
Senate. , . , ,
The hill last mentioned was read, and ordered
to B second reading.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tions of the House of Representatives, disagreeing
to Mme, and amending oiher, amendments of the
Senate to the bill, entitled ■' An act making pro-
vision for (he payment of certain Debts of the
United Slates." Whereupon,
Retolved, That the Senate insist oio their amend-
ment to the IKh line of the first section of the
bill ; that they insist on their ameadmenl lo the
third section for striking out the proviso; that
they disaxree to the amendment of the House of
Reptesentai.ves to their amendment of the third
section, as follows:
" And BOch of the ravsnua of Ois United St&tM
heretofore appropriated for (he payment of inlereat of
debts IhDB ^Bcharged, ahaU be, and the nme are ha»-
by, pledged and appropriated tMVudi the payment of
the intaraat ajnd initahnMUa of the principal, nhitb
ahaU hereafter become due on the Loan obtainid of the
Bank of the United Statei^pumant to the llthaection
of Ae act for mcDtpoiBting the aufaecribera lo the nid
Bank."
The Senate insist, also, on their amendment to
the 5lh section of the bill, and ask a conference
on the subjects of disagreement, and have ap-
pointed Messrs. BiFfOBAH and Strono managers
on the part of the Senate.
A message from the House of Representative*
informed the Senate that the House desire a con-
ference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houaea
on the bill, entitled "An act to regulate the com-
pensation of clerks^" and have appointed managers
at the same on their part.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tion of the House of Representatives, desiring a
ConTerence on the disagreeing votes of the two
Homes on the bill, entitled "An act to regulate
the compensation of clerks." Whereupon,
Raolved, That the Senate do agree to the pro-
posed conference, and that Messrs. Sthohq and
RoBH be managers at the seme on the part of the
A mes.'iage from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House have passed
the bill, sent from the Senate for concurrence,
entitled "An act to continue inforce,foralimitea
time, the acts therein mentioned," with amend-
ments ; in which they desire the concurrence of
the Senate.
The Senate proceeded to conuder the amend-
ments of the House of Representatives to the t»U
mentioned in the above message ; and,
ReMotved, That ther do concur therein-
Mr. Gdnn reportea from the ioint committee
of conference on the bill, entitled " An act to as-
certain and fix the MihCary Establishment of the
United States," certain modifications, as agreed
to by the committee ; which were read.
Ordered, That the report lie for consideration.
Mr. Robs, from the committee to whom waa
referred the bill, entitled " An act regulating the
grants of land appropriated for military services,
and for the Society of the United Brethren, for
propagating the Gospel among the Heathen,** re-
ported amendments; which were read, and the
consideration thereof postponed until to-morrow.
The bill laying Out mio one State the territory
ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United
States, and providing for an eoumeration of the
inhabitants thereof, was read the third lime.
On motion, that the bill be amended, so that
the State be called and known by the name of
Tennessee, it pasted in the negative.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY or CONGRESS.
110
Proceedingt.
[Sbhatk.
Aod, after agreeing to lundry ameDdmeots, on
motioD, tbat the following be an additional section
to the bill :
••And be it further maeted. That if, on tbe retnnu
^ the BaptnmoT of the Revenne for the Diitrict of
TentuMee, ■■ directed by thi* iLCt, it •hall ippeai to
the Pnodent of the United Stalea that the tenitory b;
thii act laid ont, and fbrmed into a State, doth cnntain
nxtf Ihooeand free tnb*bitant>, that then it ahall be
lawAil bt the Pieaident, by Itii PrDcJamation, to declare
the ■ame ; and that, in that event, and on their forming
a Conititntion conatrtent with the oidinance of Con-
gnai of the thirteenth daj of July, one thousand eeren
hundred and eighty-eeTen, the awd State, by the name
and style of 'The atate of Tenneaaee,' (ball be re-
caiTed and admitted into thd Union ae a new anil entire
member of tbe United Stalea of America. And, nntil
an enumerstioD ahall be made, under the anthinity of
Coagren, tar the porpoM of apportioning Hepmenta-
lirt^ the aaid State of Tannenee ahall be entitled to
dkOMe one RepreaentatiTe ;"
A motion was made to amend.thiH motion, by
tttiking out tbe following words ;
** And on their forming a Conatittition conaistant
with the ordinance of Congrm of the thirteenth day of
July, ooB thonaand aetan hiuidrad and aighty-aefen :"
It passed in the negati?e — yeas 11, naya 18, as
follows :
Ynm. — Meyrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Bun, Butler,
Heniy, Langdon, Livennote, Martin, Botdnson, Tatt-
nall^and Taiewell.
Hat*. — MeaRa. Bingham, Bradford, Foater, Oiuin,
Latimer, Marshall, Potla, Read, Boss, Rutheifiird,
Strong, and Trumbull.
And, on tbe question to agree to tbe motion
without ameDdmeni, it passed in the u^atire —
yeas 10, nays 12, as follows:
Y«AB. — Meaan. Burr, FoWet, Gnnn, Henry, Lali-
mar, Livermore, Martin. Potts, Tattnall, and Tnimbntl.
Sa.1: — Means. Bingham, Bloodworth, Bradford,
Bmwn, Laligdon, Marahall, Reed, Robinaon, Rosa,
Kutheffiud, Strang, and Taiewell.
On ihe question, that the bill pass, it was deter-
mined in the affirmatire — yeas IS, nays B, as fol-
lows:
TiAT. — Meaara. Bingbam, Bradford, Brown, Foater,
Gnnn, Latimer, Martin, Potta, Bead, Roaa, Rntherfhrd,
Birong, Tattnall, Taiewell, and TmnbaU.
Naii. — MeMta. Bloodwwth, Burr, Butler, Heniy,
Langdon, LivernHne, Manhall, and Robinam.
Bo it was resolved, that this bill pass ; that it
be engrossed ; and that the title thereof be " Ac
act laying out into one State the territory ceded
by the State of North Carolina to Ihe United
States, and proriding for an ennmeraiion of the
iababitants iliereof "
A messase from tbe House of Representatives
inforaied the Senate that the House have passed
U. entitled "An act to empower the Secretary
making an appiopriation to satisfy CKlain de-
mands aCteniliug the late insurrection, and to in-
cieaie the compensation to marKhals, jurors, and
wilneases, in the Courts of the United States, and
to allow a further compensation to tbe Attorney
for the District of Kentucky ;" in which ihey de-
sire the concurrence of tbe Senate. Tbey agree
to the report of tbe joint committee of conference
on the amendments to tbe bill, entitled "An act to
ascertain and fii the Military Establishment of '
tbe United States." They also a^ree to the pro-
posed conference on the disagreeing votes of tbe
two Houses on the bill, entitled " An act making
B'ovisiou for the payment of certain Deks of tbe
niled Stales ;" ana hare appointed managers on
their parL
Mr. Sthono, from the joint committee of con-
ference on tbe amendment to tbe bill, entitled
"An act to regulate the compensation of clerks,"
reported, tbat it will be proper for the House of
Representatives to recede from their amendment;
which was read, and ordered to lie for considera'
The biUgSent from tbe House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled '' An act to empower tbe
Secretary of the Treasury to lease the Salt
Springs reserved for the United States in the Ter-
ritory Northwest of the river Ohio," was read the
first and second times.
Ordered, Tbat the bill last mentioned be re-
ferred to Messrs. Roes, RcTBERraHo, and Bdrb,
to consider and report thereon to tbe Senate.
On motion, that it be
Reaolved, Tbat the Pbbsideht of tbe Senate
and Speaklh of tbe House of Representatives be
authorized to close tbe present session, by ad-
journing their respective Houses on Wednesday
tbe latof June next.
It was agreed that tbe consideration thereof be
postponed until to-morrow.
Mr. BiKQHSM, from the c6mmittee to whom
was referred tlie bill, entitled " An act to suspend,
in part, the act, entitled < An act to alter and
amend tbe act, entitled 'An act laying certain du-
ties upon snufi* and refined sugar ;" reported
amendments, which were read. And, on the ques-
tion to adopt them, it passed. in the negative.
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
The bill, sent from tbe House of Representative*
for concurrence, entitled " An act making an ap-
propriation to satisfy certain Remands attending
the late insurrection, and to increaae the compen-
sation of marshals, jurors, and witnesses, in the
Courts of the United States, and to allow a fur-
ther compensation to the Attorney for the District
of Kentucky," was read tbe first lime, and or-
dered to a second reading.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concurrence, enlilled "An act to indem-
nify the estate of the late Major General Na-
thaniel Greene, for a certain bond entered into by
him during the late war," 'was read the second
time, and referred to Messrn. Tazewbli., Stbohg,
and HENSy, lo consider and report thereon to tbe
Senate.
The Senate proceeded to cooaider the report of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Senate.]
Proceedinga.
[May, 1796.
the joint committee of coofereDce, on tlie disa-
gieemt' rotes of the two Houses od the bill, enti-
tled "An act to ascertain and fix the Military Es-
toblishmenl of the United States;" which was
adopted, and the bill amended accordingly.
A message from the House of Represf
iafonned the Senate that the House have jiusseu
a bill, entitled "An act providing pasaporta tor the
ships and vessels of (he United States f in which
they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
the comminee to whom w»a referred the bill, en-
titled "An act reeolatiog the graots of land ap-
propriaBd tor military serTices, and for the So-
ciety of the United Brethren for propagating the
Gospel amoog the Heathen ;" which was in part
adopted.
Ordered, That the remaiDder of the report be
recommitted.
The committee agaio repotted, and it wsa
u teed to postpone the consideration thereof un-
A Letter from the Treasurer of the United
States, with his account to 31st March la&t, was
read, and ordered to lie for consideration.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House recede from
their amendment to the bill, entitled "An act to
regulate the compensation of clerks."
The Senate look into consideration the .report
of the commitlee, appointed on the 29th of April
last, 10 consider the report of the Attorney Gene-
ral, of the 28th of April, on the subject of the
lands situated in the Southwestern jarls of the
United States; and, after debate, the eonsidera-
tioD thereof was postponed.
The bill last sent from the House of Repre-
sentatives for concurrence, entitled "An act pro-
viding passports for the ships and vessels of the
United States, was read the first and second times,
and referred to Messrs. BiwaHAH, BRADroan, and
Lahodon, to consider and report thereon to the
Senate.
Saturday, May 28.
The bill, sent from the House of Representa-
tives for concorrence, entitled "An act making an
appropriation to satisfy certain demands attend-
ing the late insurrection, and to increase the com-
pensation to marshals, jurors, and witnesses, in
the Courts of the United States, and to allow a.
farther compensation to the Attorney for the Dis-
trict of Kentucky," was read the second time, and
referred to Messrs. Brown, Bdtler, and Rosa, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate,
Mr. BiNGHiM,from the joint commiitee of con-
ference on the bill, entitled "An act making pro-
vision for the payment of certain Debt.* of the
United States." made a report; which was adopt-
ed ; and it was agreed to amend the hill accord-
ingly.
The Senate proceeded to consider the report of
the committee, to whom was referred the bill, en-
titled "An act resulatiog the grants of land ap-
pro^Hriated for military services, and for the So-
ciety of the United Brethren for propagating the
Gospel among (he Heathen ;" which report, Seine
amended, was adopted ; and the bill was amended
accordingly.
Ordered, That this bill pass to a third reading.
A message from the House tA Representatives
informed the Senate that the Honse have passed
a bill, entitled "An act for satisfyino- the claim of
the executors of the late Frederick William de
Steuben ;" and a bill, entitled "An act for the re-
lief of John Sears ;" in which bills they desire the
concurrence of the Senate.
The bill last mentioned was read twice, and re-
ferred to Messrs. BiiADroiin, Potth, and Strong,
to consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The following Message was received from the
Pbesideitc of dig United States:
Gentlmten of the Seitale, and
of the Hoate of Bepraenlattvet i
The eitraordinuy eipenaea, to be incurred in the
present year in support of oiir foreign intereoutje, I find
will require > proTudon beyond the ordinary appropria-
lion, and the additional twm^ tbomutd doUan lately
I have directed an edunate to be made, wfaidi is Mtit
herewith, and will exhibit the deficiency, for whidi an
appropriatian appean (o be neceeaaiy.
G. WASHINGTON.
Unitin erATBB, May S8. 1796.
The Message and estimate were read, and or-
dered to lie for consideration.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed the Senate that the House agree to [he
report of the joint committee of conference on
the bill, entitled ''An act making provision for the
^yment of certain Debts of the United Stales."
Tliey have passed a bill, entitled "Anacttoauthor-
;e thePRBaiDEHT oftheUnitedStateb to cause
I be located one mile square of land, at or near
the mouth of the Great Miami river, reserved out
of the grant to John ClevesSymiiies,and for other
purposes ;" in which they desire the concurrence
of tne Senate.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
otion made yesterday in respect to an ai)jonrn-
On motion, to expunge '"Wednesday," and in-
ri ** Tuesday," it passed in the n^ntive. Where-
Beaolved, That the President !of the Senate
and Speaker of the House of Representatives
be authorized to close the present session by ad-
journing their respective Houses on Wednesday,
the first day of June next.
Ordered, That the Secretary desire the con-
rrence of the House of Rep^esenIative^ in this
resolution.
The bill last brought from the House of Repre-
ntatives lor concurrence was read twice, and re-
ferred to Messrs. Bdrr, Brows, and Potts, to
consider and report thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Reprei^enta-
res for concurrence, entitled ''An act foit satisfy-
e the claim of ihe executors of the late Frede-
ik William de Steuben," was read twice, and
;dbvGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
Hat, 1T96.]
Proceedingt.
[Sbmatb.
referred to tbe committee last mentiODed, to con-
sider and report thereon to the Senate.
The bill, sent from the House of Represents-
lires for concurrence, entitled "An act to suspend.
in part, tbe act, entitled 'An act to alter and amend
tbe act, entitled 'An act laying certain duties upon
snuff and refined sugar," was read tlie tbird time.
On motion, it was agreed to amend tlie bill
agreeably to the report of the committee made
fesierday, and then rejected.
Hetoived, That tbis bill pass as amended.
Mr. BtNOBAM, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled "An act providing
passports for the ships and vessels of the United
Stales " reported amendments; which were read
and adopt^ ; and the bill was read the third ti
and passed.
MoNOAV, Maj 30.
The memorial of William Somarsall and s ,
and John Rice, merchants, of Charleston, South
Carolina, was presented and read, stating certain
spoliations to have been made on their property
Of a privateer from the Island of Bermuda, and
portati<m of domestic distilled spirits, and allow-
'drawback upon snch spirits exported in ve»-
less than thirty tons, by the Mississippi,"
reported that the bill pass without amendment.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the bill, and,
by unanimous consent, the bill was read the third
time, and passed.
The Senate proceeded to consider tbe resoliH
tiou of the House of Representatives, disaereeiog
to their amendments to the bill, efititled "An act
ipend, in part, the act^ entitled 'An act to
alter and amend the act. entitled, 'An act laying
certain duties upon snufi* and refined sugar ;" and,
Resolved That tbe Senate insist on their amend-
ments, and ask a conference thereon, and that
Messrs. Binqhau and Stbono be managers at the
same on their part.
A message from the House of Representatives
intbrmed the Senate that the House agtee to the
proposed conference on the bill, entitled " An act
to suspend, in part, the acL entitled 'An act loa^
ter and amend the act, en tided 'An act laying car-
tain duties upon snuff and refined sugar;" and
hare appointed managers at the same on their
part.
Mr. Read, from the
therein mentioned be referred to the Secretary of
the Department of State.
The bill, sent from the House of Represenla-
tires for concurrence, entitled "An act regulating
the grunts of land appropriated for military ser-
vices, and for the Society of the United Brethren
for propagating tbe Gospel among the Heathen,"
was read the third time, and passed.
Mr. BrowHj from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled "An act making an ap-
propriation to satisfy certain demands attending
the late insurrection, and 10 increase the compen-
sation to marshals, jurors, and witnesses, in the
Courts of the United States, and to allow a fur-
ther compensation to the Attornev for the Disltict
of Kentucky," reported that the dill pass without
amendment.
On motion, sundry amendments to the bill
were adopted; it was then read the third time and
passed.
A message from the House of Representa-
tives i&fonn«d the Seitate that the House have
paned the bill, sent fVoro the Senate for coneur-
leitee, entitled "An act laying out intn one State
the territory ceded by the State of North Caro-
lina to the United States, and providing for an
enumeration of the inhabitants thereof," with
amendments; in which they desire the concar-
rence of the Senate. They agree to tbe resolu-
tion of tbe Senate to adjourn on Wednesday, the
first day of June next. The Honae of Representa-
tives disagree to the amendments of the Senate
to the bill, entitled ''An act to suspend, in
the act, entitled 'An act to alter and amen
act, entitled 'An act laying certain duties upon
snatT and re&ned BUgar."
Mr. BiNGRAM, from the committee 10 whom
was referred tbe bill, entitled "An act limiting the
tinke for the allowance of drawback on the ex-
?ndlhe
, __ .. whom was
eferied tbe bill, entitled " An act to prevent the
sale of prizes brought into the United Slates, by
vessels belonging to any foreign Prince or Stale,*
reported that tbe bill do not pass.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the bill,
and that it pass to the third reading as amended.
Mr. BoBB, from the committee to whom was
referred tbe bill, entitled " An act to authorize
the Phesident of the Ukited States to cause
to be located one mile square of land, at or near
the mouth of the Qreal Miamiriver, reserved out
of the grant to JohnCtBvesSymmes,andfoi other
fiurposes ;" and the bill, entitted " An act for satis-
ying the claim of the executors of the late Fre-
derick William de Steuben," reported that they
On the question, that these bills severally pass
to the third reading, it was determined in the ne-
gative. So the bills were lost.
Mr. BRAOFoan. from the committee to whom
was referred the oill, entitled "An act for the re-
lief of John Sears," reported that the bill do not
On the question, to agree to the third reading
ot this bill, it was determined in the negative.
So it was resolved that this bill do not pass,
A message from the House of Representatives
informed tbe Senate that the House have passed
a " resolution appointing a committee, jointly,
with such as the Senate may appoint, to notiry
the PRBBinENT OF THE Uhited States of iheprtj-
posed recess of Congress.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resdn-
lion last sent from the House of Representatives,
in relation to tbe proposed recess.
Resolved, That the Senate concur therein, and
that Messrs. Henut and BcTLEa be the commit-
tee on their part.
The Senate proceeded to consider die amend-
nients of the House of RepresenUtiTei to the bill
;dbvG00gle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
SlNATB.]
Prwxedmgt.
[MiT, 1796.
entitled "Aq act laying onl into one State the
territory ceded by the Blale of North Carolina
to tlie United States, and proriding for an
■Deration of the inhabitants thereof. '
SewOeed, That they disagree to the first, aiid
0 all the other amendments to the said
^'
Mr. BiMOBAM, from the joint committee of c(
ference on the hill, entitled " An act to suspend,
part, the act entitled ' An act to alter and amend
5ie act entitled ' An act laying certain duties upon
snuff and refined sugar," reported that the Senate
recede from their amendments, ai)d the n •
was adopted.
Mr. Brows, from the committee to whom was
referred the memorial of the Directors and Agei
of the Ohio Company, reported —
" That >o mndi of the wid memorial aa prays that
rendations may l>e •([opted by CongreH, whereby the
■nib of certain loti reaerred by contract for the sale of
ontain Unds lo said Comptmy, for the support of
■chooli, and for rehgious purpOBOi ; also, of two com-
plete lownablpe reaerrod for the endowment of an lim-
Tenity, may be bronght into .peedy operanon, Uld the
beneTolent intwidons of the Go™mmant thereby more
fully •n.wered. ii reasonable. But the committee are
of opinion that it U aipedient that the further oonmder-
atioD thereof be poatponed to the neit seaaion of Lon-
gicM, when soma general wgulationa on thia subject
may be made.
" That, in the opinion of the committee, so much of
the a<ud memorial as praja to be allowed to take from
the lota reaerrod out of Ae grants to aa>d Company, for
the future dispoaidon of Congress, twenty lots, of one
mile square each, as an allowance for an equal number
of lota appropriated by the aaid said directors and agents,
for the support of schoob and religiona pnipoaes, and
tuA pro»idod for in said contract ; also, so much there-
to as K^klU the ri8*t of pr»«m[ilian to tha whole of
the reserved lots within the trada granted to the said
Company, be rqected."
Oniavd, That this report lie on the table.
Mr. Rose, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled " An act to empower
the Secretary of the Treasury to lease the Salt
Springs reserred for the United States in the Ter-
ritoryNorthwest of the river Ohio," reported that
the bill do not pass. , i. ,
On the queation, that this bill pass to the third
reading) it was decided in the negaiire.
Mr. BobB, from the committee to whom wai
referred the bill, entitled "An act providing re-
lief to the owners of stills within the United
Slates, for a limited time, in certain cases," re-
ported amendments, which were adopted. And,
by unanimous consent, the bill was read the third
time, and passed.
On mouon, il was agreed, by unanimous con-
sent, that Mr. RcTBEHPcnn have permission lo
introduce a bill to amend "An act for the more
general promulgation of the laws of the United
States," and that it he now read the first and se-
cond limes.
Ordered, That this bill pass to the third reading.
And the House adjourned.
TcBsnAT, May 31.
A message from the House of RepresentntiTes
informed the Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled "An act to alter the time of the
neitannuatmeetingof Congress;" in which they
desire the concurrence of the Senate. They insist
on their amendment, disagreed to by the Senate,
to the bill, entitled An act laying out into one
State the territory ceded by the State of North
Carolina to the United Stales, and providing for
the enumeration of the inhabitants thereof;" ask
a conference thereon, and have appointed mana-
gers at the same, on their part. They agree to
all the amendments of the Senate to the bill, en*
titled " An act regulating the grants of land ap-
propriated for military services, and for the SO'
ciety of United Brethren, for propagating the
Ckvpel among the Heathen ;" except to the last,
to which they disagree.
The bill, sent from the House 6f Repreaenta-
tiyes for concurrence, entitled ■" An act to prevent
the sale of prizes brought into the United States
by vessels belonging to any foreign Prince or
State," was read the third time.
On motion, lo expunge the proviso agreed lo
yesterday, ai an amendment, it passed in the ne-
gative.
So it WHS Sesoltied, That this bill pa« with an
amendment.
The Senate proceeded to consider their amend-
ment disagreed to by the House of Representa-
tives to the bill, entitled " An act regulating the
grants of land appropriated for military services,
and for the Society of the United Brethren for
propagating the Gospel among the Heathen ;" and,
Baolvei, That tliey do insist on their said
amendment.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tion of the House of Representatives, desiring a
conference on the bill, entitled " An act laving out
into one State the territory ceded by tne State
of North Carolina to the United States, and pro-
viding for an enumeration of the inhabitants
thereof."
1 motion, to postpone the further consideration
thereof until the next session of Congress, it pass-
ed in the negative — yeas 10,<*iay3 13, as follows:
YBiB.—Heasn. Bingham, Bradford, Foster, Latimer,
Potts, Read, Bosa, Rntherfiud, Strong, *nd TnunhulL
lts. — Messia. Bloodweitb, Brown, Burr, Butler,
Ounn, Haniy, Langdon, Livmmore, Maidiall, Martin,
Robinson, Tattnall, and TaiewelL
Retolved, That the Senate agree to the propos-
conference, and that Messrs. Burr and Stronq
be managers at the same on their part.
A message from the House of Representatives
informed tne Senate that the House have passed
a bill, entitled '' An act making anpropria lions for
the support of the Military and Naval Esta blish-
mentsfor the year one thousand seven hundred and
ninety -six ;" in which they desire the concurrence
of the Senate.
The bill sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled "An act to alter the
.dbvGoogle
mSTOIkY OP CONGRESS.
lUT,179e.J
[Sbnatb.
time of the next anitiud meeting of Congreu," was
lead and ordered to a second readiog.
The bill toataead "Anactfoi the moreseaeral
promulgatioD of the Laws of the Uaited States,"
was read the third time and passed.
The bill seat from the House of Representatives
for coDCUrience, entitled " An act makitig appro-
piialioDs for the support of the Military and Na-
nl SstablishmentB for the year one thousand
seven hundred ninety-sii," was read twice and
referred to Messrs. Potts, Bkowh, and Stroho,
to eoDsider and reporl thereon to the Senate.
Mr. RtTTBERFDHD reported from the committee
to whom was referred the bill, entitled " An act
direct! Off certain experiments to be madeto ascer-
tain uniform standards of Weights aud Measmes
for the United Stales,"
Ordered, That the report be printed for the tise
of the Senate, and that the consideratiaa of this
nfer-
bill be referH^ to the next session of Congr
Mr. BcHH. from the joint comraittee of i
ence on the oill, entitled " An act laying o
one State the territory ceded by the State of
North Carolina to the United Slates, and provid-
ing for au enumeration of the inhabitants thereof,"
!, that the Senite
agreement to the amendment of the House of Re-
presentatives. Whereupon,
Jteaolttd, That the Senate recede from their
diaaigreetaeut to the said amendment.
A motion was made by Mr. BoRa, as follows :
" Raohtd, That say eounnsIioD oftbe inhsbitcnts
of anr district nnder the temporary Government of the
United States, for the purpose of fomishlng evidence Xo
CongTcas that *ach district contains the number which
nay entitle it to tdiniarion into the Union, ihall have been
taken and nude, under a law to be made bj the Legii-
latare of the said diatrict, of the &•• tnhabitanla only,
and, in «U other TS^adSipanraantto theproviaioiiacon-
taiiMd in the set, entitled •■ An act providing for the
' n of the mhabitantB of the United State*:"
Which motion was read and ordered to lie until
to-morrow for consideration.
Mr. Tazewell reported from the committee to
whom was referred tne bill, entitled "An act to in-
demnify the estate of the late Major Qeueral Na-
thaniel Qreene, for a certain bond entered into by
him during the late war ;" which report was read,
IS foUowa :
" The committee to whom the bOI to indemnify the
estate of the late MaJOT Oenerat Greene, for a certain
bond entered into In him during the late war, was com-
Hitted, submit the loilawing report to the Senate :
" It a^^ean to the committee that, some time in the
Ulnftbeyear 1783, the DepattotntofWarantboriiad
Gtnend OreBJie la contract for the clothing of the army
dxn vider his command. That, sometime in Novem-
ber 01 December, of ihe same year, be did contnct with
John Banka, a member of the house of Hunter, Banka,
*nd Co., trba aiMd for that honae, to furnish the neces-
mrnppBeaofdothingfortheannj. That John Banks,
sAer eatering into the contract, procnred apon credit, of
Mrlsin British merchants then in Cfaatleaton, the neces-
*Bj aiticlea of clothing. That General Greene, at the
!■» be mads this contract, paid down to the aaid Banks
the sum of eleven hundred guinea and drew Ulla in
his favor on the Snperintendent of Finance for the re^
due of the money neseHaiy to complete the contract.
That, about the same time. General Greene received au-
thority to contract for the necessary snppliea of provi-
sion for the army, which he found condderable difficnl-
tj in accomplishing. That, after exhausting the time
which sdmilted, of delay in making ttus latter contract^
he entered inlo an agreement with the umo John Banka^
as a member of the house of Hnnter, Banks, and Co.,
for the provision supplies of the army, someliiDe in die
month of February, 178S. That, aboat this time, the
creditore of Banks, aa he had djaappointed and deceived
them in hia prtnnised pajmenta, became prwsing in
their demands, and threatened, apon his r^iual either
to p^y them or secue their dcMa, the nu of meana that
might have disobisd htm frdm fulfilling his provisitm
contract. That General Greene, in order to prevent the
inconvenience which the loss of the provision contract
would oocanon to the snny, and to leave Banks at hber-
ty (o pursue it, fay mtiafylng his crediton, on the Sth of
April, 1783, agreed to become his security, and, aeuad-
ingly executed bonds with the said Baidu to Ids credi-
tors, for the amotut at their debts; otw of whidi bmde
isthe debt that gave riseto the present hill. Hat, in order
to indemnify himseU; he compdled Banks, at the same
time, to give order* on Cbajlea Pettit, his (Banks's)
agent in Philadelphia, for the full amount of the debts
for which he had become bound, to be paid ont of the
public money that would become due to Banks in vir-
tue of bis contracts. That these orders woold have been
productive enough lo utis^ all the debts, if Banks had
not ■continued to divert the funds to other pnn>OBes.
That, after (he death of General Greene and of^anks,
Harris and Blackford instituted a soit sgainit the exe-
cnlars of General Greene, and have obtained a judgment
for the sum itsted in the bilL No satisfactory endenee
has been offered to the committee to prove that Hunter,
Banks, and Co., are insolvent ; but. on the other band,
there is reason to beUeve that some, at least, of Aat
company are folly able to pay the debt due to Hania
and Btackfbrd, from the poUic notification of one of
thecompany, in (he newspapen of Virginia, requiring
theereditotB of Hunter, Banks, and Co., to come in and
settle their claims, and receive payment Nor doe* it
a(^)ear that the execnton of General Greene have ever
attempted, at law, to recover the debt in question of
Hunter, Banks, and Co. Some of the papers Bubmitted
to the eommittee intimate that General Greene was a
member of the house of Hunter, Banks, and Co., in thia
transaction ; and it appean (hat General Greene gave
DO notice cd' his suretyship to the Government until
■eveial yean after, nor until he was called upon to pay
the bond ; but the committee have not discovered any
satiafacto^ evidence that General Greene was a part-
ner with Hunter, Banks, and Co. If Hnnter, Banks,
and Co., were actually insolvent, and if General Greene
was not a partner in the house of Hunter, Banks, and
Co., m this transaction, the committee would not hesi-
tate in behoving thit the United Stales ought to indem-
ni^ General Greene's estate against the eflecta of dua
securitfship \ sinee they do not discover any other mi^
which eontd have govemedhim, in beoomingseen-
fbr Bsnks, but that of esMmtislly promoting the
rhe committee further observe, thst they have not
dme fiiHy to investigate all the &cts in this case ;
jeing desirous that justiee should be flnally done,
they submit to the Senate the propriety of referring the
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mSTOHY OF CONGRESS.
SntATfi.]
ProcetdiMgt.
a of thb nifaiael to llw neond Mood^ of
■wzt MOioii of Congnm."
And, afler debate, the coDsideratton of the bill
was pOElpoDed nnlii to-morrow.
A messaf^e from the House of Represei
informed the Senate, iliat the House have passed
a bill, entitled " An act making further appropria-
tions for die year one thousand seven nundred
and ninety-sii ;" in which they desire the concur-
lence of the Semtte.
The bill was read twice, and referred to ih.;
committee appointed ihie day on the bill, sent
from the House of Representatives foi concur-
rence, entitled " An act making appropriations for
the snpport of the Military and NaTal Establish-
ments ror theyear-on^ thousand seven hundred
tmd ninety-si J."
Wedhesday, June 1.
Mr. PoTTB, from the committee to whom was
referred the bill, entitled ''An act making appro-
priations for the support of the Military and Ha-
Tsl Establish men ta for the fear one thousand
•ereii hundred and ninety-six," reported amend-
ments ; which Were read and adopted. The bill
was then read the third time and passed.
Mr. PoTTB, from the committee to whom
referred the bill, entitled " An act making further
appropriations for the year one thousand seven
hundred and ninety-six," reported that the bill
pass. Andj by unanimous consent, the bill was
read the third time and passed.
Thebill,sentfrom the House of Representatives
for concurrence, eji titled " An act to alter ihe time
:nn', and But^
.0 the Senate.
IS adopted.
of the next annual meeting (if Cong]
and referred to Mesi^rs. Potts, Gi
K£h, to oonaidei and report (hereon I
Mr. PoTTB reportecl, from thi
the bill do not pass, and the rept
A message from the House of Representatives
iuCormed the Senate that the House nave passed a
bill, entitled " An act to authorize the PHBaioENT
OF THE UHrrsn States to lay, regulate, and re-
voke embaiwoes, during the ensuing recess of
Congress;" in which they desire the concurrence
of the Senate.
The consideration of the motion, made yester-
day, for regulating the enumeration of the inhabit-
ants of any district, under the temporary Govern-
ment of tbe United States, was resumed. Chi
Ordered, That it be postponed.
The bill, sent from the House of Representatives
for concurrence, entitled "An act to authorize the
PsEoiDEHT OF THE Unctbd States Io lay, rcgu-
Ute, and revoke embargoes, during the ensiung
r«eess of Congress," was read twice, and referred
Ut Messrs. Bihohau, Butler, and Pottb, to con-
aider and report thereon to the Senate.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the
bill, sent from the House of Representatives for
eoncurrencSj entitled ''^n act to indemnify thi
i with the rule,
third time.
On motion, to add the following proviso to tbe
nilh
"Proeitlediabo, Thati^atan^timebereaAer, it sbaD
appear that the said Oenetal Greene vru jntireated in
this transaction, as a member of tbe bouse of Hontor,
Buika, snd CoDipan;, either directly or indiivetly, tke
ettata of the uid Ooienl Greene disJ) be liable to re-
imburse the Unitod BUUr the money, with intersat,
fanrrtij directed U> be advanced to his axeculina."
It passed in the n^ative.
On motion, it was agreed to amend the bill, by
adding these words, after the word " bond," "not
exceeding the aforesaid sum of eleven thousand
two hundred and ninety-seven pounds eight shil-
lings and eight pence, with interest from the 31st
of December last."
Rtiolved, That ibis bill pass with amendments.
Ordered, That the Message of tbe Pbebideht
OF THE UiriTED STATES, of tbe 25th of May last,
be referred to Messrs. Robs, Rctherpdiid, ant)
Brown, to consider and report thereon to the
Mr. BiNQBAM, from the committee to whom
was referred the bill, entitled "An act to author-
ize the PaEaioEw-r of tbb Uhfted States to lay,
regulate, and revoke embargoes, ddring; the ensu-
ing reeess of Congress," reported, that the bill pass
without amendment. And it was agreed, by unani-
mous consent, to dispense with the rule, and that
this bill be now read tbe second time.
On motion, to agree, by unanimous consent, to
dispense with the rule, and that this bill be now ■
read the third time, it passed in the negative —
yeas 14, nays 5. The consent not being unani-
mous. The yeas and nays beine required by one-
fii^h of the Senators present, tnoee who voted in
the affirmative, are :
Mestn. Bingham, Bloodworth, Bradford, Foater, L«tt>
mer, Livennore, Marshall, Martin, Potta, Read, Roaa,
RnCheriiinl, Strong, sad TnunbulL
Those who voted in the negative, are —
Measrs. Brown, Bdit, Butler, Langdon, and T«ie>
wril.
Wedneiday Evening— 5 ffdoek
On motion, that it be
" Raehtd, That tbe sum of one bandied doltaia eadt
be allowed to tbe principal and engroaiing clerks in the
oOica of the Becretaiy of the Senate, to be paid faj tho
Seeretary out of the money appropriated ka the contin-
gent expenses of the Seuftte:
The motion was objected to, as not in order, and
determined by the PnEsinEMT ; and, on an ap-
peal to the Senate, the determination was over-
ruled. Whereupon, the question being taken on
the original motion, it passed in the negative.
On motion, by Mr. Martin, that it be
'|Aao^, That the hononthle William Blount,
Cocke, Esquires, who have produced a
estate of tbe late Major General Nathaniel Greene, dentials of being duly elected Senators fcr the Sute of
for a cartam bond entered into by him during the Tenneswe, be admitted lo take the oath necossai; for
Ute war;" and, it being amended, it was agreed | their qnalification, and their seats accordingty:"
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fflSTOHT OF CONGRESS.
[Sg»
And, on the qoesdoa to agree to the resoluiioii,
it passed in the negntive — yeas 10, nays 11, as
follows:
Ytu—MmoB. Bloodwoith, Brown, Butt, BatloT,
Gnnn, l-aagdoa, Idartin, Bobiiuon, Tattnall, and Tbib-
irdL
JiAtw. — HeaaM. Bingham, Bradfoid, Foatar, LatiinsT, .
Lirannoni, Manhall, Fotta, Read, Rosa, Bntherfhid,
■nd TmmbalL
A message from the Honse of RepreseDtatives
mformed the Senate, that the Honse, hsTing fin-
ishetl the husiness befoie them, are about to
adioura to the first Monday in December next.
Mr. BnTLGR.fram the joint committee appointed
to wait on the FBEaioENT or tbe United aTATGa,
and notify him that, unless he had any further
commnnicAtionsto make to them, they were ready
to adjourn, reported, that the President or the
United Statbb had no further communication to
make, except the nomination of certain persoiu
to execute toe laws passed the present session.
Ailer the cODsideratioD of the Executive busi-
ness, the President adjourned the Senate to the
first Monday in December next.
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DigilizMwGOOglc
PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES,
AT THE FIRST SESSION OP THE FOURTH CONORESS, BEQDN AND HELD AT THE CITT
OF PHILADELPHIA, DECEMBER 7, 17B6.
MoMDAT, DecembeT 7, 1795.
The following membera appeared and took (heii
Prvm New Bamjuhire. — Abiel Foster, Ni-
CBOLAs OiLHAN, John 3. Sbbbbubme, and Jebe-
NUB Smith.
/Vom MeutachuaetU. — The ophildbBhadhobt,
Henby Dearborn, Dwiobt Fobter,N&thahibl
Fbeehan, Jr., Benjamin GoaDHUB, Qeoroe Leo-
KiBD, Samdel Lvmah, William Lyman, John
Rebd, Tbeodore Sbdowick, George Thatcher,
Joseph B. Vahhdu, and Feleo Wadswobth.
Pram Rhode hliaid. — Benjamin Bodhnb and
Francis Malbonb.
From Coimecticut. — Joshda Coit, Chacncev
QooDRicB, RooebObiswold, Zephaniah Swift,
ud Uriah Tracy.
Frotn Vermonl. — Israel' Smith.
Prtnn New Yen-*:.— Theodobob Bailey, Wil-
UiH Cooper, Ez|:KiEi.QaBEBT, Henby Glen,
JONATBAN N. HATBIfB. EdwABD LlVIHOBTON,
JoBN E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cobtlandt,
ud John Wiluamb.
From ^Sno Jertey. — Jonathan Dayton, Aabon
EiTc hell, Isaac Smith, and Mabk Thompbon.
From Pemuyhama.—T)AyiD Baibd, Albbbt
QiLLATiN, Daniel Heibtbr, John Wilkes Kit-
TEBA, Samdel Maclay, Fbedebice AuaUBTCB
Udhlehbero, Sahdgl Si to reaves, John Si
ViCK, and Richard Thomab.
from Delaware. — John Patten.
From Jtorylorul— Gabriel Christib, Georqe
Deht, Gabriei. Ddtall, William Hihdman,
■nd William Vanb Mcbrat.
From Virginia. — Samdel J. Cabell, John
Clopton. Isaac Coles, William B. Giles,
Gkoroe Hancock, Carter B. Harbison, John
Heath, Gboboe Jackson, Jambs Madison, An-
DiEw MooBE, JoBLAB Parkeb, Robbbt Ruther-
roBD, and Abbabau Venablb.
From North Carolina.— Tso mas Blodnt, Na-
TBAN Bbvah, Dempsey Bdrqes, Jesbe Frank-
UN, William B. Gbotb, Jambs Holland, Mat-
thew LocKB, Natbakibl MUcon, and Absalom
Tatom.
Fnm SphM Carolina. — Samdbl Earlh, Ro-
■IBT QooDLOB Harper, and William Smitb>
From GWtyia^-ABB AB am Baldwin.
And a quomm, conaisting of a majority of the
whole nnmbcT being present,
The Huuse pioceeded, by ballot, to the choice
of a Speaeeh ; and, upon examining the ballots,
a majority of the voles of the whole House was
fbund in favor of Jonathan Datton, one of the
conducted to
the Chair, from whence tie made his acknow-
ledgments to the House, as follows;
GurTuHiH : It is with real diffidence tlmt I under-
take the eieentioii of the duties whieh joa luve done
me the honor to aflngn to me.
In discharging them to the beet of m; abilittM, I u»-
tidpate, on jour put, » Ubenl and indulgent temper
towtrda those dttdsians which may ba required mm
the Chair, >nd flatter myaslf dmt I shaD eip«iien««,
npon all oocasiona, your 0(M>paration and sUf^it.
The House proceeded, in the same manner, to
the appointment of a Clerk ; and, upon ezaminmg
the baliota, a majoritv of the vote« of the whole
House was found in (avor of John Bbcklet.
The oath to support the ConstitutioD of the
United Stales, as prescribed by the act, entitled
" An act to regulate the time and manner of ad-
miaisieiing certain oaths," was then administered
by Isaac Smith, one of the Representatives from
the State of New Jersey, to the Speakeb, and
then by Mr. Speaker to all the members present
The same oath, together with the oath of office
prescribed by tfae said recited act, were also ad-
ministered by Mr. Speaker to the Clerk.
A message was received from the Senate, in-
formioK the House that a quorum of members of
that body is assembled, and the Vice President
being absent, they have proceeded to the choice
of a Pbebidbnt pro tempore, and that Henry
Tazewell has been duly elected.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate
to inform that bodr that a quorum of this House
is assemhied, and nave elected- Johatban Day-
ton their Speaker ; and that the Clerk of this
House do go with the message.
Another message from the Senat« was received,
informing this House that they have appointed ■
committee on their part, to act jointly with sueh
committee aa may be appointed ny this House, to
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fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
Address to the Pretident.
[D.
1, 1795.
wail on the President of the United States,
to inform him (hat a qnorum of the two Houaes
is assembled, and ready to reoeiTe aoy eommuni-
cation he may think proper to make to (bem.
Ordered, Tbal Mr. Madison. Mr. Sedgwick,
and Mr. Sitgrbaves, be appoioted a commiltae
on the part of this House, for (he purpose eipiess'
ed in the message of the Senate.
Petitions fiom sundry persona, preying to be
appointed [o the offices of Sergeant-at-Arms and
Doorkeeper, were presented to the House and
read : Whereupon,
The House proceeded, by ballot, to the choice
of a Sergeant-al-Arms, Dowkeeper, and Assist-
ant Doorkeeper; and, upon pxaminiitg the ballots,
a majority oi the Totes of tbe whole House was
lound in favor of Joseph Wheaton, as Sergeant-
at-Arroe, Tbomas Claxton, as Doorkeeper, and
Thomas Dunn, as Assistant Dooi^eeper.
Ordered, That the said Joseph Wbbaton,
Tbohas Claxton, and Thomas DnHM, do seve-
tally give their attendance accordingly.
Mr. Madison, from the joint committee ap-
E'nled 10 wait on the Pbesiiient op the UmTsn
ATES, and notify him that a quorum of the two
Houses is assembled, and ready to receire any
oammunication he may think proper to make to
ibem, reported that the committee nad, according
to order, performed that service, and that the Pre-
sident signified to them that he would make a
communication to both Houses of Congress to-
morrow, at 12 o'clock, in tlie Represeotatives'
Cliamber.
ders 1^ proceeding as are proper to be observed
this House ; and that Mr. Muhlenbehq. Mr.
MnRRAT, and Mr. Balpwin, be the said com-
Besolved, That the Rules and Orders of pro-
ceeding, established by the late House of Repre-
seniatives. shall be deemed and taken to be tbe
Rules and Orders of proceeding to be observed in
this House, until a revision or alteration of the
same shall take place.
Resolved, Thai a Standin* Committee of Elec-
tions be appointed, whose duty it shall be to ex-
amine and report upon the certificates of election
or other credentials of the members returned to
serve in this House ; and to take into their consi-
deration all such matters as shall or may come in
question touching returns and elections, and to re-
port their proceedings, with their opinion there-
upon, to the House.
And a committee was appointed, of Mr. Vena-
BLE, .Mr. Dent, Mr. Eittera, Mr. Swift, Mr.
Deubobn, Mr. Habpeb, uid Mr. Blopht.
ToEenAY, December 8.
Several olher members, to wit: from Maryland]
Samubl Smith j from Virginia, Richard Brbnt}
and from Geoivia, John Millbdue, appeared, pro-
duced tbeir credentials, and took their seats in tiie
Honae) the oath to aupport the Constitution of
the United States being firstadm
by Mf. Spkaker, according to law-
Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate
to inform (hem (hat this House is now reaxly to
attend (hem in receiving the communication from
the President of the United States, agreea-
bly to his notification to both Houses yesterday ;
and that the Clerk of this House do go with the
said message.
The Clerk accordingly went with the said mn-
sage ; and, being returned.
The Senate attended and took seats in the
House ; when, both Houses being assembled, the
Pbbsideht of the United Btateb came into the
Representatives' Chamber, and delivered his
Speech to the two Houses. fFor a copy of this
Speech, see the Proceedings of the Senate, ante
page lOJ
The PazsiDEHT or the United States then
withdrew, and the two Houses se[iarated.
Ordered, That the Speech of the President
or THE United States to both Houses be com-
mitted to a Committee of the Whole House to-
A petition of Matthew Lyon, of (he State of
Vermont, was presented to the House and read.
complaining of an undue election and return of
Israel Smitr, to serve as a member of this
House for the said State.
Ordered, Thai the said petition be referred to
the Committee on Elections ; that they do ex-
amine the matter thereof, and report tne same,
wilh their omnion thereupon, to the House.
Ordered, That the Clerk of this House cause
ihe members to be furnished, during the present
sessLOTL, with three newspapers, printed in this
city, such as the memlKrs, respectively, shall
choose. ID be delivered at their lodgings : Prwri-
ded. Tney do not exceed the price at which sub-
scribers, citizens of Philadelphia, are furnished
with them.
Wbunsbpat, December 9.
James Hillhoubb, from Cotmeciicut, appeared,,
produced his credentials, was qualified, and took
ADDRESS TO THE PRESIDENT.
The House, according to the order of the day,
resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the Speech of the Pubsident of the Unitbp
States to both Houses of Congress, Mr. Mch-
LENBEBo in the Chair ; when, tne Speech being
Mr. Vans Mdrray moved the foUowiog reso-
lution :
" Remhed, That it ia die opinion of this committee,
that ■ renectii)! Addtess ongfat to be prcMnted by the
Hoiue of H^raMtitativei to the PrMldcnt of die United
BtttM, in annrer to hi> Speech to both Hon*ee of Con-
Sreu, at (he coiDBMDoement of this ■cmkib, eontabiing
umisDcei that this Houie will take into coiuideratian
the variooa and impoitaM autten Tecommanded Id iJtetr
Mr. Sgdowios seeonded the motim.
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HISTQRT OF CONGRESS.
130
Decembbb, 1796.]
Oimmtiitet of CSaiiiu.
[H. opR.
Hi. Parses oSered an unendroeDt, which mi
seconded by Mr. Maook.
Tbe rabstance of this amendment was, to strike
oal all that pan or the rewlution which ^oes h^-
fore the word oMUrancM; in place of which, Mr.
Parkir proposed to appoint a committee, who
should penonally wait oa the Prebident, and
sssure him of the atlention of the House, dec., and
concluding »s above. Mr. P. had the highest
respect for the President, but he had aiways dis-
approved of this practice of making out Addresses
in answer to these Speeches, and of the House
leaving their business to go m a body to present
them. Last session, the framiaz of this Address
had cost very long debates and produced very
great irritation. Some of the most disagreeable
things that happened during the session occurred
in these debates. He wished unanimity and the
despatch of business, and so, could not consent
that aoy Address should be drawn up, as he pre-
ferred ending the a&ir at otiee by sending a com-
Ditiee,with a verbal answer.
Mr. MnaRAY replied, that the pncttee of draw-
ii^ up such an Address was coeval with the Con-
stitution. It was consistent with good sense ; and
he did not see that any arguments had been em-
ployed by the gentleman who spoke last against it.
It was true that the House might send a verbal
iii$wer, and it was likewise true that the Prbbi-
DENT might have sent them his Speech by his
Secretary, without comiug near them at ell. He
kad come to Congress, and Mr. M. could perceive
u> impropriety in Congress relUming the compli-
nent hy waitmg on him.
The Committee divided on the ameadmeni
proposed bf Mr. Pabseb. Siehteen tfiembrrs rose
ID support of it; so it was lost. The Commit-
tee then agreed to the resolution as offered by Mr.
HcBRAY. They rose, and the Chairman reported
progress. The resolution was agreed to by the
House. The next question was, of how many
members the select committee should consist that
were to be em^oyed in framing a draft of the
Address. The different numbers of five and three
wete proposed. A divisioQ took place on the for-
mer motion, when onlj thirty-one gentlemen rose
in its favor. The motion for a committee of three
members to report an Address was of course car-
ried. Mr. MinieoN^ Mr. Beoowick, and Mr. Sit-
flBEAVEs, were aiqminted.
It was then moved that two Chaplains should
be named, as usuali which was agreed to.
A motioD was next aude for referring the Pre-
■HMn-r's Specoh to a Committee of the Whole
HoBse on tne state of the Union. An explana-
tion as to a point of order here took place between
Mi. McHLBHBBHa and Mr. SEirawiaK. The result
wta, that the Speech was referred to a Committee
of the Whole House to-morrow.
On aeeoant of some casual coDversalioa, the
SrEAUB then read a rule of the Hou£e, which is :
"Tlvt Um imfiiiiriied borinen m which the Hefosc
*■■ eogiged at the tttne of the last sdiooinment aball
kive ilw pnftrenefl in die ordeta of the day ; and no
special leave of the Honae, nntil the ianaei is diipowd
at"
A committee of three members was appoinwd
to report the unfinished business of last session;
and the House adjourned.
TavRBDAY, December 10.
Fhamcib Preston, from Virginia, appeared
was qualified, and took his seat.
COMMITTEE OP CLAIMS.
It was proposed and. agreed to appoint a Com-
mittee of Claims. Seven members were named.
Mr. Tract, Chairman of the same comtnitlec in
lost Congress, was also flrsl named this day. He
rose, and observed, that he had been extremely
hard employed last year, and had undergone mucn
trouble about this business of claims. He would
therefore, if agreeable to the House, be very glad
ofbeias left out of the nomination; and for that
reason he objected to the motion.
Mr. Sbdqwiok wished the member to continue
his services. These claims were now diawinglo
a conclusion. The task would not probably be so
arduous as it had been. He thought tliat the Honse
could not excuse Mr. Tract, from his known abi-
lities.
Mr. Giles said, that Mr. Tracy was, perhaps,
better qualified tnan any other member in the
House for expediting that business. He had been
at much trouble about it, for which the House
were obliged to him. It was somethin? of a sys-
tematic nature, and new members would not be
able to go on it with the same degree of informa-
tion and experience.
The Speaker (Mr. Dayton) remarked, that he
had under the latter idea named tbe same gentle-
men at this time as those who were in the last
committee — only two members were not here, vii :
Mr. Mo ^TOOjjEHY and Mr. Mebane, in the room
of whom he had named Mr. Heibter and Mr.
Macon.
Mr. Hgatb, a member both of the old and new
Committees of Claims, observed that he would
very willingly be excused, if tbe sense of the
House were in that way. At the some time, he
came to Congress to do his duty and the business
of his constituents, and if the House entertained
an opinion (hat he ought to undertake the same
office a second time, he had nothing to urge
against it.
The House divided on the question, whether
Mr. ToAcy should be a member of the Commitlee
of Claims. It pau«d in the affirmative.
Mr. Cbristie, another member of the old and
new canHnittees, then roae, and ohterved that,
notwithstanding the negative passed on the pn>-
ponl of Mr. Tract, he should trouble the Hoose
with an application of the same nature upon his
own account. The state of his health required
that he should ride every morning, and the time
necesMry for despatching the business of the Com-
mittee of CUims put it out of his power to take
the requisite exercise. On that account alone he
bemed the indulgenoe of the House.
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131
raSTORY OP CONGRESS.
H-opR.]
Qmtt^ed EUclim—PraitUnt't SpeeeK— Rules of the finite. [Dec
1,1795.
Hr. Tbaot attested that Mr. CHRiaTiB had ex-
eited himself verjr conaiderably to acceletate the
buaiuess of the claims. He knew that the gentle-
maahad suffered much ia hia health by that meaiis.
He should be Tetf sorry to lose him as an assist'
ant, for he had attended almost constantly last
vioter to the business. Sometimes want of health
had indeed compelled him to be absent.
The House agreed to the request of Mr. Chbis-
The Committee of Claims, therefore, consists
of Mr. TBAcy, Mr. Malbone. Mr. D. Fohter,
Mr. Heath, Mr. Macon, Mr. Hbibteb, and Mi.
DOVALU
A message was receired from the Senate, an-
Douocing the election of the Right ReT. Bishop
WHtTB as Chaplain on its part.
Mr. W. Smitb presented a petition for Ed-
mund Hogan, requesting to be admitted as Ste-
nographer to the House. Mr. Shitb also moved
that a committ«e should be appointed to receive
proposals on that subject. Mr. W. Smitr, Mr.
Giles, and Mr. Swift, were appointed a commit-
tee to this effect.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr. SiTaRGAVEs presented a petition for John
ntv of Montgomery, claiming
He had, as he alleged, been
some of the reaolutioDs required endence before
the House proceeded on them.
Mr. W. Suits said, that the resolution for or-
ganizing the militia did not require eTideace.
Mr. SwAHWicK moved an additional reaolution,
which wa£ for inquiring into the present situation
of the American Navy. It was a point on which
he fell himself extremely interested.
Mr. Baldwin made some remarks, wherein he
alluded to the awkward outsevof the House last
session. They bad been for three weeks before
they could get at the papers laid on the table be-
fore them. He did not wish to see the House in
situation, or to make such a heginiiiag
again.
Mr. GoODHUH saw no use for hastening the
resolutions on the Committee just now.
The Committee rose. The UBAmiiAii reported
that they had made some progreas, but had come
' ' no resolution.
Mr.SwAMWicK then moved that the resolutions
ad in the Committee on the state of the Union
should be printed. He said that it was difficult
'' I members to form an opinion upon them, with-
it they had an opportunity of reading them.
The Speaker oUerved, that as they were only
read in the Committee, aud not regularly before
the House itself, to prmt them would be against
Mr. W. Smith did not see the necessity for this
moved that (be petition be referred to the Com-
mittee on Elections- The motion was agreed to.
Also a petition of Burwell Bassett, of the State
of. Virginia, complaining of an undue election and
return of John Clopton, to serve as a member of
this House, for the said Stale. Referred to the
Committee of Elections.
After the reception of several petitions of a pri-
vate nature, the House went into a Committee of
the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. Mo
USKBEKG in the Chair.
PRESIDENT'S BPBECH.
Mr. W. Smitb presented a set of resolutions,
substance as follows:
" Betthied, u the a[nnbD of this Committee, that
mora eSectnsl provicion ought to be mads for org
ing, disciplining, and arming, the Militia of the Ui
States.
" Reiohed, as the opinion of Ihii Committee, thai
fhrlher protiaion ought to be irade fiir lbs sacuri^ of
the fronlian, and for pioUctiDgthe Indians agamst oei-
tain lawless inhabitants of the frontier.
" Rttoioed, as the opinion of this Committee, diat
pnivisian shonid ba msde fte snp^ying the nacei '
of the IndiuM in timea of peace.
" Boohed, ■■ the cninion of this Committee, that
infuiryoni^ to be made whether fiuthei means should
be provided to ninforoe the piovinons heretofore made
br the extJndiDn of the Public Debt.
"Retoked, as theofnnion of this CDmn>itlea,thL .
inqnby ought to be made into the state of the Mint,
and whether any further provisioas are nnmmsrjin that
depajtmeot
Mr. QiLBB thought it better to let these resolu-
(ioaa lie on the table for thia day. He thought
rule.
Mr. Macon objected to taking up the resolo-
lions at all. He sucjxMed them toM bottomed
on the PansiDEN r'a Speech, on which there is an
order for a Committee of the Whole House. It
would thence be improper to proceed with them
till the Speech itself had been discussed.
Mr. HiLLHOUSE was of (pinion tha* there was
I occasion for being in such a hurry with print-
g the resolutions.
The Speakeb repeatedly observed that this
whole conversation was irregular and improper,
because there was in reality no question belote the
House. He informed them that there was now a
motion to adjourn. This was made br Mr. Shitb.
Mr. SfinawicK wanted him to withdraw it- He
refused; andihe House, athalfafter twelve o'clock,
adjourned.
FatBAT, December 11.
Several other members, to wit : from Vermont,
Danibi. Bdcs; from New Jersey, Tbohas Hgn-
DEHBOH;from Pennsvlvania, William Fikdlevi
and from Virginia, Jobn Nicbolah — appeared,
produced their credentials, were qualified, and took
their seats.
BULE8 OF THE HOUSE.
Afler the reception and reference of several
petitions —
Mr. MnnLBMBEBfl made a report from the com-
mittee named to draw up Standing Rules and
Orders for the Hou!>e. He observed that they dif-
fered in some respects from those of last Congress-
He moved that they should be printed, with the
new Tariationa separately marked, for the coiui-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Dcomn, 17S5.]
Chaptain
-The MitO—AddrtM to the Prtndent.
deration of members, ind referred to & Committee
of the Whole House. This waa agreed to, and,
m another molioD, Monday mw appointed for
taking them up.
CBAPLAIH TO THB HOUSE.
It was next moved and resolred to proceed to
the choioe of a Chaplain. The Speaker directed
the HoDse to prepare their ballots. Mr. Hili.-
BoosB said that it would first be proper to make,
13 on former occasioDs.B nomination. The House
contented, and Mr. Hillhousb named Dr. Aahbcl
Green. The SpEAKSBtbenremindedtbeHouse that
uy other gentleman was at liberty lo make what
other nomination he should think fit. Mr. Giles
ind Mr. W, Smith were appointed tellers. Sizty-
tbree were ad faror of Dr. Green, besides seven
scattering TOtes. Hewas declared dulyeleeted.
After transactinjK some other ordinary busi-
ness, the House adjonmed to Monday next, at 11
o'clock. '
Mdndat, December 14.
Two other members, lo wit : from Feansylra-
nia, Tbomab Habtlbt, and from Virginia, Am-
THOMr Nbw, appeared, produced their credentials
ud took their seats.
report therefrom such matters of business as were
then depending and undetermined; and also to
examine and report such laws of the United Sistes
ts have eipired, or will expire before the neztses-
BOD, made a report ; which was read, and ordered
to lie on the table.
Mr. Vbmable, from the Standing Committee of
Blections, reported, that the committee had, in
[Brt, examined the certificates and other creden-
tiils of the members relumed to serve in this
HoDse, and had agreed to a report ; which was
nad. and ordered to lie on the table.
The SpBAKsa laid before the House a Letter
fmnthe Secretary of the Treasury, accompanying
u account of the receipts and expenditures of the
United States, for the year one thousand seven
kondred and ninety-four; which were read, and
ordered to lie on the table.
The Spkakbb laid before the House a Letter
from the Seoretary of the Treasury, accompanied
with estimates of the sums necessary to be appro*
pnated tor the service of the year one tboosaad
Rven hundred and ninety-six; also, statements of
the tpplicaiion of certain sums of money granted
by law; which were read, and ordered to lie on
the table.
The Speakbb laid before the House a Letter
Ironi the Secretary of War, accompanying sundry
slaieaients and reports relative to £e present mill'
t«| force oi the United States '
to Teplemstk the maeaziues and military stores,
to the measures which have iKen taken for open-
■Dg a trade with the Indians ; and to the progress
nade in providiog materials for the frigates, and
in building them ; which were read, and ordered
THE MINT.
A letter, enclosing some papers, was received
from Mr. Tihotht Pickebino, Secretary of State.
This communication renrded the Mint. It was
moved to be referred to the Committee on the slate
of the Union.
Mr. HiLLHODSE wished to know what it was
about The Clerk read the letter to the Fbb0-
iDEHT, from Mr. William Hehsy dg BAoasuBB,
late Diieclor of the Mint, which stated it will, if
properly supplied with bullion, be able to make a
million and an half of dollars, in silver, and an
e^ual value of bullion, in the course of a year,
with as much copper as shall be necessary for cir-
culation. The price of copper has risen, and from
causes that are expected to be permanent. He
therefore hinted that it might perhaps be proper
to reduce the weight of the cent, to prevent its.
being melted down. The second paper read was
a memorial ftom Mr. Elias Boddinot, present
Director of the Mint, dated 3d of December cur-
rent. Hestaled various circumstances, from which
the operation of coinage is, at present, in a state
of suspense. The papers were referred to the
Committee on the state of the Union, and, on mo-
tion by Mr. BooBHB, were ordered to be printed.
AQDRE88 TO THB PRE8n)ENT.
. Mr. MAoiaoN, from the select committee ap-
pointed to draft an Address in answer to the Speech
of the PBEaioBNT, made a report, which was read
by the Clerk.
Mr. Giles moved that the usual nnmbei of co-
pies of the Address should be printed for the use of
the members.
Mr. SEDOwtcK objected, but with some degree
ofhesitatian,becausehecouldnot distinctly charge
bis memory as to the accuracy of the circutnatance
which he wasgoingto relate. It ran in his memory,
that, on some former occasion, similar to the pres-
ent, a printer got hold of one of these J^Mdresses.
printed for the use of members. He had published
it, and some improper consequences ensued, but of
which Mr. Seoqwice bad not a distinct recollec-
tion. He was rather averse to printing the draft
of the Address, though hewasnot disposed to give
the proposal a direct negative.
Mr. Giles considered the printing of such drafts
as having been a common practice.
Mr. Pabker said, that iftbe Address was to be
considered as the work of the House, it would be
improper to print it, because their only business
then was to wait upon the Pbesidbnt with it.
But as it was only the production of a select com-
mittee, it should be printed, that the members
might read it, before tney adopted it as their own.
With every proper feeling of respect for the gen-
tlemen of that committee, he could not give up
his own opinion. He hoped that the draff would
be referred to a Committee of ibe Whole House,
and when once corrected, and given in to the
P BBS iDBHT, then let it be published as coming from
the House. No member, from only hearing it
.dbyGoogle
mSTOBT OP COMGBBSa
Private daunt— Atfet if the Houae.
[Decdmmb, 1795.
read bv the Cletk. would be able to tell wbelhet
01 not he approved entirely of its contents, so that
it was requisite to priut it, before the House could
be sure that they understood it.
Mr. OiLEB wuhed to leafD, from the Clerk of
the House, what the practice of the House hith-
erto had been.
It appeared that the naual practice was to prist,
but (hat it was sometimes departed from.
Mr. W. Smitb saidthat it was wrong to divulge
Id the public the particular Eentiments of the gen-
tlemen who drew up the sketch of the Address.
It was unfinished, and as such, if printed for the
Use of the members, it micht be piicted in the
newspapers, a natural or prohable effect.
Mr. SwANWicE recommended the printing.
Mr. Pareeb, in reply to Mr. W. SMrrS', hoped
that noihing would ever be done in the House
tending to infringe the freedom of the press, .The
Sublic are entitled to know the sentiments of the
lommiltee individually, as well as of the House
collectively.
Mr. Tracv said that the draft of the Address
bad indeed been last year printed for the use of
members. But it had been agreed, without one
dissenting voice, that to print it in the newspa-
Cs would not be right. Nay, when be himself
: in the House expressed apprehensions on that
head, a printer of one of the papers had taken him
up in a reply, and assured him that (he printers of
Philadelphia had too much value for life time of
their readers to publish any paper which they
knew to be incomplete, and on the point of being
perfected. As to the libertT of the press, wiiich
the member last up had spoken about, it migbt be
in greater danger bow than last year, but he was
not acquainted with its being so.
It was then unanimously agreed to print this
pwer for the use of the membt^ ; and, on motion
of Mr. Parked, it was referred to aCommittee of
the Whole House. To-morrow was agreed upon
for taking it up.
^ PBIVATB CLAIMS.
On a motion from Mr. Tsact, the House took
up a report from the Committee of Claims, which
was read,and which stated, that at the rising of last
session, many petitions m& never been examined,
from their bavrng bean presented at so late a pe-
riod, that time was xvaniing to go through with
them. The report closed with recommending
the adoption of a resolution, the substance of which
was, that these unexamined claims be recom-
mended to a new Committee of Claims. This
recommendation was agreed to.
RULES OF THE H0U8E.
A motion was made thai the House should go
into Commitiee of the Whole, on the report from
the Select Committee on the Stsnding Rules and
Orders of the House. This was accordingly done,
Mr. McBLEnBERO in the Chair.
The Chairman inquired if it vras the pleasure
of ihe Committee that this report should be read
over again, as a prioied copy was already in the
hands of every gentleman. It was the sensed
the House that the report diouU be read over
it shall be determined by *
again, which was done, partly by die Chatmuut,
and partly by the Cleik of the House.
The following clause was the firat in any ways
objected to :
" When the rsadiiif of > p^mt is called fbr, tcAtcA
had btjore dten read lo the ommc, u
jeded lo by any member, j ■ - ■
vole of Ihe House."
The 8[>EAKER, (Mr. Dayton,) did not under-
stand thoroughly ttie inieiit of this clause.
A member explained that formerly the custom
had been to read any pepei as otten as it was de-
sired by a member. The consequence was found
to be, lut papers of more length than importance
Iwd been read over and over again^ in the course
of a session, to the great waste of time. The rule
in question was one of those of last session.
The Speaker replied that papers had sometimes
been road, which, as it appeared afterwards, had
much better not have been read at all. He r^er-
red to a particular instance in the last session.
He, theretore, hiahly approved the idea of the
Commillee, but objected that it did not go &r
enough. He, on this accouiit,proposed to strike out
the words in itaUcki, by which means, if the pa-
per was of an improper description, even a first
reading would be prevented. The member, if he
has any doubts, may communicate its contents to
some other gentleman, previous to his laying it
before the House, and, if it appear^ improper, the
nature of its contents being thus indirectly con-
veyed, members can easily form their minds, with-
out the trouble of reading it.
Mr. GtLEB approved the proposition of Ml.
Dayton, which was agreed to by the Committee.
The words in ilalicks were thus to be struck out.
Mr. W. Smith moved to strike out the follow-
ing clause:
" No -""■'"" shall a(, dnnog the ntting of lUa
House, without qiaoal leave."
Mr. Smith had no obiectiMi to the rule, if the
House seriously iaiended to adopt and enforce it j
but if they did not, it was diminishing the reapeei
due 10 the House. It was entirely improper to
make rules, knowing that thev would be broken.
He moved to strike out the clause only thai be
might obtain the sense of the House whether ifaey
chose 10 adhere lo the rule or not. We might as
well have no rules as not observe them.
Mr. MoBLENBEBo remarked that the Commit-
tee on Enrolled Bills, from the nature of their
business, can only ait while the House itself is
sitting.
Mr. KiTCHBLL said that if the House were to
have no rules made, but such as were never broken,
they would have no rules at all, for he believed
that they never made a role,whichwas notirans-
gressed on some occasion or other. He was for
keeping in the clause.
Mr. Dayton was for leaving it in the power rf
the Speaker to send for committees into the House
when Ibey might be wanted. Excepting as lo
the case of Enrolled Bills, already noticed by tbe
Chairman, others very seldom had occasion to sit,
while the Hoose was sittiiig. But when such a
.dbyGoogle
mSTOllY OF CONGRESS.
Dhsbhbgii, 1795.]
BuUm of the HouK.
necesnty happened, there was no doabi ihat the
permission wonld be eranied.
Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Mdbbav. and Mr. Giles,
said a few words, and, in the end, Mr. Smith with-
drew his omeodinent.
Another mle was read, which directs clearioc
the House of all persons, except ihe luembFts ana
ihe Clerk, when confidential coiomuDicationa are
reccired from the President. Mr. W. Suith
inquired why the Sergeant-at-Atms was not, as
romierty, to be admitted. Mr. Mobrat refuied
that the cotumittee had not thought his presence
esseatiallf necessary. No motion was made on
this subject.
'The reading of the Rules was then finbhed.
The Committee rose, and the Chairman reported
that there had been one amendmeni adopced.
The House then took up the rales. One of
them bath these words:
"A SetKeant-at-Amu ahall eiacnte
ofllie House, from tiioe to tune, athtr by hivudfi
fpeeiai rneMtaigtr,U>be by Urn t^>painted fir that ptir-
pote."
Mr. HiLLBOCSE objected to the words iaitaUei,
19 they nowGiand, because they give the Serjeant
1 discretionary power of going idle, and hiriQE
•QOther person to do his business. He proposed,
is an amendment, to add these words, "or in cote
(fticknetM."
Mr. Venable preferred, as an amendmeot, to
strike out all the words in italics.
Mr. HiLLBOCBE had ODce thought of that; but
be recollected that the Sere^nt might be sent to
Georgia to arrest a member. After proceeding
ihree fourths of the way, he falls sick ; and not
being able to proceed further himself, nor having
lime at such a distance to consult (he House, the
result will be that, unless he is qualiSed to appoint
■ delegate in his room, the orders of Ihe House
will not be executed.
Mr. Venable still thought it better to leave out
the clause, than suffer a Sergeaat-at'Arms to ap-
point an officer for that House. The words were,
on a motioo to that effect, struck ouL
Another clause was for appointing a Committee
of Commerce. On motion, it was agreed to add
the words and Agricniture.
Oae of the rules is in these words :
oighl be wanted, were it only to take care of the
Mr. Sepowick said that then there would be
cca!!ioa to make him swear an oath of secrecy,
and to form a rule to that effect. The proposal
'gatived.
rules were then, on motion, agreed to by
the House, as follows :
BTANDING HULB8 AND ORDERS OF THE
HOUSE OF EBFRE8ENTATIVE8.
Fimt^Touehing ike Duty of tht ^eaker.
I (hail take the Ch*ir eveiy day at the horn' to
which the House ahiU have adjounied on the preced-
ing daj ; shall iimDedistelj call the members to order,
and, on the ^^Msnuiee (tf a qaorum, iliaU cauM the
Journal of the preceding day lo be read.
" ~ idull pfcaerve decorum and order ; ma; speak U>
I of Hder, in prefeielice to Dlhet memtnr*, rising
^m his seat firr that purpose, and shall decide qoes-
of order, aulgeet to an sf^Msl lo die Hoose by ai^
"N,
0 petition to coalroiert the elect
led to serve in this Houae, ihsll
electioa of ■ member
n for this re-
Mr. Oils a wished
*thction, in point of time, from any of the gentle-
nro, who were on the committee that framed the
report before the House. He had doubts of
propiiety.
Ml. SEnawicK inclined to think that the rule
should be expunged. It was a delicate mailer
to piss restricijoos, wherein they might be per-
sonally inierested. The clause was struck out.
Mr. OooDBDE objected that the Doorkeeper
should not he excluded from the House during '
reading of confidential commiuiicatioas.
4th Com.— 6
Bed
ting.
shall be djitinelly pat in this ibrm, to wit:
many as are of ofHrnmi that (as the qoeslion may
be) saj Ay ;" and sAer the affirmative voice is«aprass>
ed> " As maoy ■■ are of a contrary oianion, wy No."
If the Speaker doubts, or a dirisian be called for, the
House shall divide; those in the sffirmstive of the qnea-
tion shall fint rise from their seats, and sfterwards those
in the negative. If the Speaker atiU doubts, or a eonnt
be required, the Speaker ^all nsme two members, otw
bam each side, to tell the nnmbers in the affirmative;
which being lepoited, he shalt' then name two othen,
one £nun eu^ side, (o tell those in the negative j which
being also reported, he shall rise, and state llw daO'
' the Uonse.
committees shall be appointed by Ihe Speaker,
unless otherwise specially directed by the Hoose ; in
which case the; shall be appointed b; ballot ; and i^
Xa such ballot, the number required shall not be elect-
by a majority of the votes given, the Houae shall
proceed to ■ second ballot, in which a jdurality of votes
shall prevail ; snd in case a greater number than ore
required lo compose or complete the committee, shall
have an equal number of votes, the House diall proceed
to a further ballot or bsllots.
In all cases of bsUot by the House, the Speaker shaD
vote I in other eases he shall not vote, unless the HoOM
be equally divided, or unless his vole, if given lo the
minority, will msJie the division equal; and, in case td'
such equal diviaion, the question shall be lost.
Alt acts, addresses, and joint resolutioiu, shall be
signed by Oie Speaker ; and all writs, warrants, or sub-
pceius, issued by order of the House, shall be under his
hand and seal, attested by the Clerk.
In cose of any disturbance or disorder^ c<Hiduct in
-' " ■ 'ir Chslrman of the
order the same to be cleared.
^Sttondly. — Of Dteantm aai Debatt-
When any member is about to speak in debate, or
delivei an; matter to the House, he shall rise from his
seal, and respectfully address himself to Mr. Speaker.
If any member, in speaking, or otherwise, transgieas
the rules of.the House, tlie Speaker shall, or an; mem-
ber may, colt to order ; in which case ths member so
,db,Googlc
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
RuUtofthe Hove.'
[Dbobi
1, 1795.
mitted to explain; *aA the House alutU, if appeal*
dedde on the ewe, but nitbout debste. If there be
appeal, the decision of the Choir thall be aubmltted
If the decuioD be io bvoi of the membei called to order,
he shall be at tibertj to proceed ; if otherwise, and the
caw requiie it, he shall be liable to the censure af the
When two or mole members happen to rise at once,
the Speaker shall name the nieniber who is fini Io
No member shall speak more than twice to the same
quealiim, witbont leave of the House; noi more than
onca, until every member chooein; to speak shall hsTe
puttiDg anj qnestion, or at
e thall walk out of, or acnN
I caae, or when a membor i
Whilst the Speaker i
drowing the House, no
the House ; n
Chair.
No member shall *ole on anj questioit in the event
of which he ii immedialel; and particularly inlerealed;
ttt in any o^ier caae where he was not present when the
question was put.
Upon a diviaiot) and count of the House on any qaes-
tion, no msmbw without the bar shall be counted.
Eveijr member who shall be in the House when a
SaatioQ is put, shall give his vole, unless the House,
nedat reuons, sImII excuse him.
When a mntion ia made and seconded, it shall be
itated by the Speaker, or, being in writing, it shall be
handed to ^le Chair, nod read aloud by the Clerk, be-
fcn debated.
Every motion ahall .be reduced to writing, if the
Speaker or any member desire it.
After B motion is sUted by the Speaki
Ae Clerk, it shall be deemed to be in possession of the
House, bat may be withdrawn at any time before a de-
cision or amendment.
When a question is under debate, no motion shall be
MCeived, onlees to amend it, to commit it, for the pre-
noiu queatiaa, to postpone it U> a day
The |n«vioils qneetion i
the main qnestion be no
n Ihisfbnn; "Shall
e now put V It shall only be ad-
mitted when demanded by Gve niemb^ri.i and, until it
IB dedded, shall predude all amendment and further
debate of the main queatinn.
On a previous question, no member shall speak more
.than once without leave.
Any member may call (or the i^vinon of « question,
wheie the senae will admit of it.
A motion for commitment, until it is decided, shall
predode all amendment of the main question.
HotioDs and repOTta may be committed at the plea-
■nre of tiie Hoose.
No new uKtion or jnoposition ahall be admitted un-
der coIm of amendment, a> a sabetitule (tn the motion
or proposition under debate.
When the reading of a psfMr ia called for, and the
same is objected to by any member, it shall be deter-
mined by a vote ot the House.
The unAnisbed business in which the Hoose was en-
rad at the time of the lost adJoummBnt, shall have
preference in the Orders of the Day ; and no motion
on any other buunesa shall be received, without special
leave of the House, until the former ia diqiosed ot
In sU othai cases of ballot than for committees, a ma-
jority of the votes givea ohatl be aecessary to an elee-
tion ; and when there shall not be Eudi majMl^ on the
first ballot, the ballot ahall be repeated until a majori^
be obtained.
In all caaef whan others than members of the House
mt^ be eligible, there shaU be a previous nomination.
If a qnestion depending be lost by adjoiunment of
the House, and revived on the gucceeding day, no mem-
ber who has spoken twice on the day preceding ahall be
pennittad again to iq>eRk without Irave.
Every order, resolutioD, or vote, to which the coneur-
renCe c^ the Senate ahall be necessary, shall be read io
the House, and laid on the table, on a day preeaUng
that in which the same shall be moved, unleai the House
shall otherwiae eipresdy alkiw.
House, shall be presented by Hie Speakn, or I7 •
member in his place, and dkall not be debated or dsdded
on the day of their being first read, unless where ttts
Honse shall direct otherwise ; but sfaall lie tm the table.
Upon calls of Ihe House, or in t
nays on any question, the names of
be called alphsbeticallj.
Any member may eicnae himself from serving on
any committee at the time of his appointment, if he ia
then a member of two other committees.
No member shall absent himself from the service of
the House, nnlesa he have leave, or be sick, and unable
to attend.
Upon a call of the House, the names of the members
shall be called over by die Clerk, and ihe abaanteas
noted) afterwhich, the names of ths absentees diall he
again called over, the doom shall then be shut, and those
for wham no excuse, or insuffident eicnses an mad«,
may, bj order of the House, be taken into custody, as
they appear, or may be sent for, and taken into custody,
wherever to be found, by ^cial meaaengets to be ap-
p(Hnled for that purpoae.
When a member shall be discharged from custody,
and admitted to his seat, the House sbal! deteimiDS
whether such discbirge shall be with, or without, pay-
ing fees; and, in like manner, whether a delinquent
member, taken into custody by a spedal messenger,
shall, orahall not, be liable to de&ay the expense of sudl
■pedal messenger.
A Sergeaift-at'Arma sball be ajratonted, to h<^ his
office during the pleasare of the House, whcrc dn^ it
shall be to attend the House during its atting ; to ex-
ecute the oommands of the House, fiom time to time,
together with all such process issued by authority there*
of, as shall be directed to him by the Speaker.
The fees of the Sergeant-at-Arma shall be, for every
arrest, the sum of two dollars ; for each day's CDStodj
and releaaement, one dollar \ and for traveling expeii*
•ea of himself, or a special messenger, going and return-
ing, one-tenth of a dollar per mile.
Four standing commitleea shall be appointed at Iha
commencemeal of each seaaion, viz:
A Committee of Electiorui, a Committee of Claims,
a Committee of Commerce and Manuiacturea — Io con-
siit of seven members each; And a Committee ol Re-
visa) and Unflniahed Busineaa — to consist of IhiM)
It ihsll be the du^ of the nid Committee of ElectitHia
10 ezamne sad report npoa the eertifiestes of elMtion
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
DlCBH BBK, 1795.]
Ruhg of the Amw.
[H.Oi
OT otW credeDlUli of Iha mamban letumed to wrre
tlu* HooBe, and to Uke into IhciT coiundanUoii all auch
petiliaiu uid otbar matten touching election, on'
tunia, aa ahall or may be preiented, or come in i
(km, and be luftuiud to ^tem by tha Hoaae.
It Aaa be llie duty of the aaid Cknnmiitee of Claims
Ut take into conaideration all inch petitioitB and matters
or diing* toadiing claims or deoianili on the United
Stalca^ aa ahall ba preasnlcd, or aliaU or may o^ne
queatioit, and be TeMrred to them by the Hi>u«e, and
report theiT opinion thereupon, together with snch pro-
-nitiona for relief therein, as to them Bball seem expe-
I( dial) be the duty of the aaid Committee of Com'
nerce and MannJacturea to lake into consideration all
Mch petitiona and mattera or thiDga, toudiing the
merce and matniftclum of the United States, aa
be pmenleal, or ahaU or may come in question, end be
referred to them b^ die Hoiiae,and to report, femi time
ta time, their epinion IfaeieoB.
ItdkaUbathedD^oftheaaidConimittMOf Heriaal
and Unfinidhrd Buaineaa to examine and report whet
laws have expired, or are near GipiriBg, and requiia
be revived or fiirtlier conttnued ; abo, to ezemine ai
report from the Journal of the last seaaion, all such mi.
ten as were dien depending and undelermined. It
diall abo be the duty of die aaid eommittee to rerim
the laws for the eatabliahment of offioaa, and to report,
buo time to time, auehproriaioaB or expanaea attending
Ibem, at may a^qieai to have become neceaeaiy-
No conimitte" dull sit, during the siuing of the
Houae, without special leave.
The Clerk of the House itiaU uke an oeth for the
true anil fiiithfiil diachargo of the dntieii of his office,
to the best of his knowledge and abitttiea ; and shall
be dettmed to continue in office until anotter be ap-
It shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Houae, at the
<Dd of each aeaiion, to send a printed copy of the Jonr-
nil thereof to die Executive, and to each branch of the
Legislature, of even Stale.
Whenever eonfijential oommun'eations are lecetTed
from the Pieaidflnt of the United Statea, the Honaeshall
be deared of all . peraona, except the msmbera and the
CleA, and ao continue during tha reading of auch
commanicatiatis, and (unleas otherwiae directed by the
Houj*} during all dabelei and pioeeedinga to be had
tbereon. And when the Speaker, or any other member,
■ball iofbrm the Houae that he has communicstjons to
mske, which he conceives ought to be kept secret, iLs
House shsll, in like manner, be cleared till the commn-
oication be made ; the Houae shall then determine whe-
ther Ihe matter communicated lequiiea secrecy or not,
•nd take order accordingly.
TUrdfy^Of BilU.
Every bill ahall be introduced by motion for leave, oi
I7 an order of the House, on the report of a committee ;
uid. in either case, ■ committee to prepare ihe same
IS appointed. In cases of a general nature, one
Etmy bill ahall receive ^iree several readings in the
House previoDs to its passage ; and all bills shall be
deapalaad in order aa diey were introdnced, unless
where tba Houae ahaU direct othnwiae ; but no irill
AaU hs twice nad on the sane day witbMt necial or-
<>« of the Home.
The first reading of a bill ahaU be for in
and, if oppoaillon be made 10 it, ttie question dieH be,
"Bhall the biil be rejected 1" If nooppodtion bemad*,
or if the quertion torejeel be negatived, Ihe bill shall go
to its second reading withoDt a question.
Upon the second reading of a bill, the ^leaker shall
state it already for commitment or engumwiient; and,
if committed, then a question dnll be, whetbn to ■ a»
tect committee, or to ■ Committee of Ihe Whole ; if M
• Cammittee of the Whole House, flte House shaD de-
tenniae on what day. But, If the UB be ordered to be
engroaeed, the House shall appoint the day when H
ahall be read the third time. After oommitment' and
report thereof to the House, a bill may be lecommHIed,
or at any thne beftrm its passage.
All biUs ordered to be engrneed shall be exeoated in
a bir round hand-
When a bill abdl pa«, it ^all be oartified by the
Clerk, noting the day of its [t~*'tb at the foot IhereeC
Fi>uH%.— 0/ ComniUeet 0/ the Whole Houtt.
It shall be a standing order of the day, throu^Mit
the sesaiM), for the House to reeolve itself into a Com-
miHaattftlw Wlule Houae on the sUle of tha Union.
Id forming a Oemmltee of (be Whole Houae Aa
Speaker shall leave hie Chair, *i>d a Chaiiman to pie-
aide in Committee shall he appointed by the Speaker.
Upon bills committed (o a Commitlee id the Whide
House, iba bill shall be first read throughout by (he
Gle^ and then again read and debtfad by dawea,
leenug theprewntde tobelasloenaidaiedi the body «r
the bin shall not be debod or interlinad ; Irat all imui^
menta, noting the page and line, dkaH be dldy entered by
ibe Clerk on a separate paper, aa the Mine AtB tie
agreed to by the Ctmunittee, and ao reported to tiw
Houae. After report, the hill shall again be (Uligect to
be driiated and amended by danaea b^re a qnealioil to
•ngroas it be taken.
All amendments made- to an original motion in Com-
mittee, shall be incorporated with the motion, aiMl ao
reported.
All amendments made to a report committed to m
Coounittee of the Whole House, shaU be noted and re-
ported as in the caae of ImIIb.
All questions, whether in Oonmittee or in l}ia House,
shall be propounded in the ord* in which tb^ noM
moved, except diet in filling up blanks Ihe largest sum
and longeat time ahaB be firat put.
No moiiDn m proposiliDn for a tax or charge upon
the People shall be d«cuMed the day in whidi it ia
made or oflered, and every such praposition ahall racetre
its fiiat diacusiun in a CoBunitteeof the Whole Houae.
mittee of the V
Houae, until the ntolion or pMpoaition fin such iniaes—
shall be first discussed and ToUd in » Committee of the
Whole House ; and ao in respect to Ihe time of its cdd-
dnnanee.
All jn'oceadings teucbing appropriations of Boiiey,
shall be first moved and discussed in a CommiUce of
the Whole Bouse.
The rules of proceeding in Ule House AtU be ob-
rved in Cammittee, so for aa they may be applicable,
except the rale limiting the times of speaking.
No standing rule or order of the Houae i^all be re-
acindad without one day's notice being given <^ Ihe
motion there for.
Jbtnl Rule* mtd Orden^ Ike tw> Ham*.
In eiwry case of an tmandment of a bill agreed to tn
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
R.J
Addreit to the Preaidttd.
one Home tod diMonted to in the athn, if eitlier Heiue
■bsU raqneit a conterence, and i^poiiit B conunitUe lor
that purpoM, and the other Hoiue (hall ako ai^xnut
ooDunittee (o confer, auch conuniUeea ahall, at a codtc
nient ho\ir, to be agreed on bj their Chsinnan, meet i
the Conftnnce Chamber, end state to each other veil
ally, or io miliiig, u either ahall chooM, the reaaona t
their reapective Houaea for and againat die ameDdment,
and confer freely thereon.
Wbea a menage dull be gent trom the Senate
the Houaa of RepreaentatiTea, it aball be aimouneed at
the door of the Home by the Doorkeeper, and ahall be
leapectAilly communicated to the Chair by the peraon
^ whMn it may be sent.
The aame ceremony (ball be obaerved when a meaaage
ahall be aent irom the Houae of Repreaentativea to the
Senate.
Measagea ahall be aent by lucb peraona aa a aeiue of
propriety in each Houae may detarmine to be proper.
While bill* are on their paaaage between the two
Houaea, they ahall be on paper, and luider the signature
of the Seoetaiy or Clerk of each Hoiue, reapeeSJTelj.
Alter a bill ahall have paaaed both Houaea, it ahall
be doljr eiuolled on parchment by the Clerk of the Houae
of Repreaealativea, or the Secratary of the Senate, u
tte hill may have originated in Che one or ' the o^er
Bonae, before it ahall be preaentad to the Prcaident of
Om United Bute*.
When billa an enrolled, they ahall be eiamiijed by a
Jomt Committee of one from the Senate, and two from
the Hooae of BenreaentatiTea, appointed as a Standing
Comnittee for that pvrpoae, nho ahall csietiilly com-
pare the enrobnent wid) the engm— ed billa ai paaaed,
m ^ two Houaea, and, eonectiiig any enora that may
be diacoiered in Oie enroUed biUa, make their report
ferthwilh to the reapootiTe Houaea.
After examination and report, each bill ahall be aigned
in the reapective Houaea, flrat by the Speaker of the
Houae of BepresentatiTea, and then by the Pieaident of
the Senate.
ARcr B bill ahall have thui been aigned in each Honae,
it shall be presented by the aaid eommitlee to the Pre-
aident of the United Statea tat hie approbation, it being
firat endoraed on the back of the roll, certifying in which
Houae the aame orl^nated ; wbieli endoraBmeOt ahall
be aigned In the Becretaiy or Cleik (aa the caae may
be) of the House in which t&e aame did originate, and
ahall be entered on ihe Journal of each Honae. The
aaid committee ahall report the day of preeentation to
die President, which time ahall alao be carefully entered
oa the Jonraat of each House.
All ordera, reaolutioiiB, and votes, which are to be
^!Csenled to Ae President of the United Statea fi>r hia
nptobatioD, ahall also, in the aame manner, be pre-
TMUiJy enroUed, examined, and signed { and aball be
pnaanted in the aame manner, and by Ihe same com*
mittea, as morided in case of Ulla.
When the Senaleand Houieof RepresentatiTeashall
judge it proper to make a joint Addreaa to the Presi-
dent, it shall be presented to him inhia Audience Cham-
ber by the Pmideni of die Senate, in the presence of
the Speaker and both Hodbcs.
Ordered. That a Committee of Coi
and Manufactures be appointed, pursuant
Standing Rules and Orders of ibe House ; when
Mr, GoonsuE, Mr. BouHNE, Mr. LcvcNoaroNiMr.
SwAHWtcK, Mt. S. Shitb, Mr. Farkeb, and Mr.
W. Smith, wet« appointed, and the House ad-
joaimed.
TtrBflDAT, December 15.
Raohed, Thu a committee be appointed to inqoir*
whether any and what amendments may be neceasaiy
to Ihe act regulating processes in the Courts of thie
United States.
Retohtd, That a committee be appointed to in-
quire and report whether any and what alteratioiu,
diould be made in the penal laws of the United Statea,
by substituting milder punishments
't which infiunous and
.Sicted.
capital punidunents ai
Rfohed, That a committee be appwntsd to inqaii«
and report what pniceedinga had been had in punniance
of the act paaaed at the last aearion for the promulga-
tion of the lews of the United Stales, and whether any
and what ameodmenta may be nsceaaaiy to the said act.
ADDRESS TO THE PRESIDENT.
Sundi? memoriaU and petitions having be«D
presented and relerred,
The House then resolved itself into aCommitiee
of the Whole, Mr. Mdhlenbero in the Chair, on
the draft of an answer to the PRBsmEtrr'a Speech.
The following senieoce being under eonsidera-
Contemplating that probably unequalled spectacle
of national happineas, wbicb our countiy eihibita, t»
Ihe interesting summary which you, atr, have been
pleased ta make, in justice to our own leelings, permit
ua to odd the benefits which are derived froru your pre-
siding in our coundla, resulting as well &om the undi-
minished confidence of your fellow-dtiienB, as from
your zealous and successful labors in their serrice."
Mr. PsRKER moved to strike out the words
probably unequalled," and from the word " coun-
ils," to the end. H« owned that the United
States owe much to the PaEaiDCNT tor bis ser-
occBfdons ; but he had sometimes
erred as other men. He could not for his own
part subscribe to the expressions contained in the
words which he had moved to strike out; his con-
in the President was diminished in con-
Shbrbkrke called for a division of the
question ; that a question should first be nut upon
the words " probably unequalled," and anerwards
upon striking^ out the latter ^rt of the clause.
The question was accordingly put npon the
words ''probably unequalled," and they were
itruck out 43 lo 39.
Mr. Mdnrav rose to make a few observations
n the motion for striking out from (he >rDrd
councils." As a Representative from Maryland,
he said, he could not on this occasion be coniesied
to give a silent vote. The Leaislature of that
State had not long since declared, that their coD-
6dence in the Psebidgnt remains imdiminished *,
and though his single sentiment might be deuaed
unimportant when viewed in connexion with the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Dbcbmbh, 1765.]
AddrtM to tht pTMident.
LH.orR.
e of his Slate, yet he was free to
decliie, that his eoafidenee id the Chief Magii-
tnie had experienced no dimimition. The Legis-
latuie of Maryland, he observed, had foreseen inat
attempts wotud be made, and saw that unjustifi-
able allempis were actually making to diminish
the coafidenee of the people in the President;
the^ iherefore resolved to give the sanction of
tfaeit unanimous vote to his character, declaring
tkal the PazaiDEHT retained their confidence, and
thai he had merited it. Thoueh not bound by the
■ opinion of the Legislature of that State, he con-
ceived it his duty not to give a silent vole on the
Mr. GTI.E8 had hoped that nothing woold have
been brought before the House calculated to dis-
turb the harmony that ought to iiibsisi, by involv-
ing the discussion of delicate points. He had as
much zeal as any man for the preservation of the
Pbesidgnt's fame and reputation ; but he cmitd
not go the length of the eipressions in the clause
objected to. He could not agree to it in its pre-
sent shape, because the assertion in it does not
correspond with the fact. After this remark, there
could not, he conceived, be any inconsistency in
voting against the word and still feeling a regard
for the PREiiDENT. He hoped his fame and repu-
tation might never receive a stain, but pass un-
impaired to posterity. He should vote for
>r strik-
. Frbehak wished the motion might be m>
modified as to involve the strikingoutof iheword
" undiminished" only. Though be for himself, he
observed, might sar that his confidence in the
Phebidekt was undiminished, he could not uttei
the same sentiment in behalf of the people ai
large. In his opinion the confidence of a part (a
very small one perhaps) of the people was dimin-
ished ; though that of a majority might be iin-
sbaken.
Mr. Harper said he had np difficulty in de-
claring, that his own confidence in the Pbbbidemt
was undin^inished, but he could not go so fe
to pledge himself that that of all the people
so. He never, he said, bad been in the h
of worshipDing the President. He considered
him as a man, not infallible, but as 4 wise, honest.
and faithful public servant, and he was prepared
in all places and situations to declare this opinion ]
but he was not ready to pronounce eonceminff the
opinion of the people of the United Slates. Some
time hence they tnay become unanimous in their
confidence ; but he could not say that it was not di-
minished. He was ready to declare for himself
but not for others. If called upon 10 declare
whether a majority, whether four-fifths of the
people retained their confidence in the PRsaiDENT,
be could declare it as his opinion in the affirma-
tive ; Inii the clause as it stands inclades the whole,
and he declared as it stood could not command
his vote. He concluded by expressing his inten-
tion, when it would be in oraer, to introduce a
modification of the clause, so as to express the un-
diminished confldeDce of the House in the Phebi-
Mr. Freeman, agreed to confine his motion to
striking out the word "undiminished."
Mr. SEnowicK doubted whether,after a division
of the question, and a question being taken on the
first part, a modification of the second part would
The Chairman declared it in order.
Mr. Sedowick viewed the present moiioo as
ren more objectionable than the first; it went
directly to a denial of undiminished confidence for
the President on the part of the House and the
public. There was a time, he said, when no man
could have suppose that the period would have
arrived, that in the popular branch of the Qovein-
ment, the confidence of the people and their Re-
presentatives ij that man could have been ques-
Having been on the committee that framed the
answer, and maturely considered the subject in
every part, he would mention some of the obser-
vations that occurred to his mind particularly in
favor of the part now objected to. Lest in the
course of them his sensibility on this subject
should betray him into some warmth of expres-
sion, he begged leave to premise that he wished
to wound the feelings of no man.
It was proper he said to inquire into facts on
which the expression nowobjected to was ground'
ed. Is the confidence of the people in the services,
and patriotism, and. wisdom, of the Chief Magis-
trate diminished 1 His experience ted him to say
no ; then, in the existing circumstances, is it not
right for the Representatives to make the declara-
tion to their constituents and the world 7 To sup-
joy.
the people, who, at the present n
d so many blessings under the Presidbht's
1. could feel their confidence in mm
impaired, wouLd suppose a baseness of disposition
unworthy of them and of the services he has ren-
dered. Who could rCview iheglorious conduct of
our Chief during the conflict ofthe Revolution, his
unwearied labors for the public good, his bravery,
moderation, and humanity; whocould observe him
in his happy retirement, covered with glory, and
accompanied by the blessings of his country ; then
forsaking his retirement, putting at hazard the
mighty mass of his, reputation, and be insensiMe
of his services 7 Who conld review the critical
situation in which he preserved our peace and
prosperity durine a glorious administration of six
years ; who could review these things and not
have his heart filled with gratitude and esteem?
He expressed his belief, that a late measure of the
Executive was less the object of the dislike of
some, than afibrding the opportunity for the vent
of passions and feelings deep-rooted before.
As to the sense of the people of the PRESinENT,
he believed it nnultered, as to his immediate con-
stituents he was sure it was; and if so, it was the
duty of the House to make the declaration to the
world— a duty the House owed to themselves and
their constituents, and the more binding from the
nature ofthe Government the people had chosen.
Though the Presioent had twice been called
to the Presidency by the unanimous and unsoli-
cited voice of his feltow-eitizena ; though in obe-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY O^ CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
AddreM ta tht Pretident.
[DsoBMBBH, 1795.
dieace to tbai voice be had made a ucridce
other man would have made ; though the only
reward he has received ibi his services baa been
the approbatioD of his country, yet, neverlhelesa,
licentious presses had lately (eemed with infa-
mous and scandalous abuse of bim. Is this, he
asked, consooaDt to ihe feelings of the House, and
shall they not attempt to counleract its effects in
the only Constitutional mannerl Shall ihey nol
declare cheir own and their conatituenis' confi-
dence undiminished in that officer of the Govern-
menti
He ha^ told the Legislature that he wbhes to
co-operate, to preserve unimpaired the blessing
we e^)oy. Does the House believe ihisi then is
it wrong to express their confidence?
He believed, he said, that the efibrts made to
destroy the character of this first of men, instead
of producing the mischief intended, would effect
the contrary ; and he also expressed his belie! that
the tide of bis popularity at the present moment
flowed with unusual strenslh.
It has been intimated, ne observed, that sanc-
tioninr the vote of confidence contemplated in
the cmuse of the Address, under consideration,
would implicate an approbation of a late measure
of the Executive, and would preclude the possi-
bility of a free opinion when that measure might
come under the considemtion of the House. He
declared, upon his honor, that he bad nointention
that the vote now contemplated should hare that
effecL He did not conceive, that the vote of un-
diminished confidence, which be now pressed, in-
volved an approbation of all the measures of the
Executive ; it did not exclude the idea of fallibili-
ty; for what man is infallible? It only implied,
according to bis conception, an approbation of the
general tenor of the conduct of the Executive.
When the House express their confidence in a
Eblic officer, they cannot mean that they believe
n infallible, but only that his characleT, ground-
ed on his ^neral conduct, receives their approba-
If, when the Chief Magistrate is attacked in
the mauoer the Pbesideht has been attacked, be
if left to be overwhelmed with unmerited abuse;
what man with talents to be .useful, a reputation
tg be injured, or feelings to be wounded — what
man will hazard all to serve an ungrateful coun-
try ? It will render the station of Ciiief Magis-
trate sought only by mercenaries. If confidence
ii denied to the Executive, it will only create
Taoancie< in the high offices of Government to be
'filled by those harpies who prey upon the vitals
of the State.
Another consideratitni, he said, should have an
influence on this occasion. The fame of the Chief
Magistrate's character has filled the whole world;
the Americans are particularly distinguished as a
gople for their uniform attachment towards him.
, at this limeofday,they indirectly declare their
want of confidence in that man, Ihey will justify
Ihe malignant predictions which have been ut-
tered against our system of Oorerament.
These considerations, he said, had weighed on
ills mind. If the motion for striking out prevailed,
be declared it would distress him beyond any cir-
cumstance that had occurred to him during hia
public life, especially at this period, and under
the present circnmstances of afikirs. He should
consider the prevalence of this motion as tanta*
mount to a declaration, that the House and their
consiiiuenis did not feel their coofidence in the
Pbbbident unimpaired.
Mr. LiviNoaTON lamented the situation which
the drafted Address reduced the House to ; but he
could not give his assent to it as it stood ; he-
should vote for striking out the word "undimin- *
ished," if a question on it should be urged. He
did not conceive himself called to a seat in the
House to express opinions, much less the opinions
□f others, but to make laws. He felt so much the
delicacy of the situation which the wording of
the Address had placed the House ih. that he
wished the dilemma of a vote might be avoided.
The gentleman lust up also lamented tbi! situation,
and justly observed, that striking the word out
was tantamount to a declaration that the confi-
dence reposed in the PnEaioENT was diminished.
But he begged to remind him that it was the
framers of the Address, and he was one of them,
that involved the House in iiisdiiogreeBblesitiu-
■ )n.
Hedeelaredhimself Boyoungin the parliament-
y proceedings, as not exactly to know bow to
'oid a question on the present motion. He de-
dared he was not prepared to say what the opin-
ion of his constituents concerning the PaasniEMT
vras. The confidence of many of them be knew
WGis shaken ; that of others was increased.
He moved, if in order, that the Committee
should rise, and the Address be recommitted.
This was carried, and Messrs. Freeman and
Baldwih added to the cocnmittee.
Adjourned.
WcDNEsnAr, December 16.
Thomas Claibornb, from Virginia, appeared,
produced his credentials, was qualified, and took
ADDHE88 TO THE PRESIDENT.
answer to Ihe PBESinEMT's Speech, brought in a
report. The clause now added comiisted of a
modification of the clause objected to yesterday.
On motion, the House ^vent inttf a Committee of
the Whole, Mr. Mdhi.Enbbbq in the Chair. The
amendment was unanimously agreed to. Mr.
GiLEB then moved an amenament in the third
lineof the last paragraph. Itwasthus: for "the
several interesting subjects which you recom-
mended to our consideration will receive every
degree of tf," read of attention. The Committee
then rose, and the House agreed to the report.
It was then moved and agreed to, that the
Speaker, attended by the House, do present the
Address, as amended, to the Prgbiuent, and that
a committee should be appointed to wait on the
President, to know where and when he wiU be
ready to receive the Address of the Hoose.
.dbyGoogle
HI8T(»r OF CONGRESS.
DscxmxEK, 17^-2 Survey of Southern Onut—Sni^ Mam^actttre—Magnut King.
[H.o
Tbe nme geDtlaaeB, viz : Mr. MAMaoN, Mi.
SsDawicK. aod Mr. Sitoebatbb, who had been
fini appointed (o draft the Addreu, were named
for waiting on the Pbibident.
eUHVET OF THE SOUTHEHN COAST.
Mr. HiRPEB moved that a committee should
be appoialed to report on the memorial presented
to tlte House, last session, by Messrs. Parker.
HoPiciNS, and Meers. These gentlemen haa
been empbyed in making drafts of some part of
.the coast of the Southern States. The fuods
were not adequate to defrayiog the necessary es-
pensesj and, as (he undertakiag was ia reahty of
serious national concern, the memorialists enter-
tained a hope that Congress would interfere, and
grant them some aid towards completing the
charts. This is a summary of the Dusioess, as
laid before the House of Representaiivcs a short
time before the end of la<:t session. The memo-
rial was now read over by the Clerk, and reR-rred
to a committee of five members.
Mr. Tracv submitted a resolution relaiire to
the law for receiving subscriptions to the last
loan of the Governtnenl of the United States,
which law is now nearly expired. The resolu-
tion was laid on the table.
Mr. QiLES moved that a committee should be
appointed to bring in a bill for establLshlns; an
uniform system of bankruptcy in the United
States. This was agreed to. It was then asked
of what number -the committee should consist 7
Mr. Hahpeii hoped that three, the smallest ni
ber proposed, would be preferred, as it was c
stanlly found that the more numerous a come
tee was, the less probability there would be of
their going speedily through the business. Mr.
Gii^e, Mr. HiLLitaoaE, and Mr. Ddvall were
named as the committee.
Mr. HiLLHODSE moved a resolution that a com-
mittee be appointed to examine whether any
and what alterations ought to be made in an act
entitled, an act for laying a duty on carriages for
conveying of persons. The resolution, passed,
and a committee of three members was named.
Leave was asked to bring in a bill for aJlowina;
compensation to members and officers of both
Houses of Congress, from the 3rd of March next.
Mr. GooDHDE, Mr. Nicholab, and Mr. Eable,
were appointed.
It was next moved for leave to bring In a bill
for the relief of John R. Livingston. Mr. Tha-
cv stated, that the business was now before the
Committee of Claims, and he thence coaeeived,
that in this state of the business, it was improper
to name a committee for bringing in of such a
bill. On motion, a former report of the Commit-
tee of Claims was referred to a Committee of the
Whole House, and made the order of the day for
Mr. W. SuiTB staled, that by order of the
House, ike had brought in a bill, last session, for
opening a Lftnd 0£Sce, but it was too late in the
session to get the business eone through. He
now gave notice thai he would move fur leave to
bring in a bill for opening a Land Office.
Mr. Habtuiy called the attention of the Honae
several petitions, presented last session, fhim
sundry persons settled on lands in the Western
territory, and gave notice that he slionld bring
the subject beiore the House lo-moirow.
The committee that had been appointed to
wait on the Pkesidbkt, returned with notice that
he would be ready to receive their Address, at hia
own house to-morrow at 12 o'clock.
The House then adjourned.
Thdhbsat, December 17.
Wadb Hampton, from South Carolina, and
John Hatborn, from New Tork, appeared,
produced their credentials, were qualified ana
took their seats.
The Clerk read a letter from Mr. Samuel
Meredith, Treasurer of the United States, to the
Speakbr of the House. It was accompanied
wiih statements of public expenditure of money,
of which the nsnaJf number were ordered to be
printed.
8NUFF WANUFACTURB.
There was then presented and read by Mr.
Sedgwick, the petition o[ Francis Wright, snuff*
maker in Boston. He complained, in very
strong terms, of the present excise law as to snuff
manufactured in the United Stales, as in the
highest degree uneqnal and oppressive to the
manufacturer. He represented, that there was
the utmost facility in smuggling, while the duty
on foreign snuff imported was too small to pre-
vent an aluming competition. He considered
the Jaw altogether as a prohibition of working.
The reader will observe, that by ibe first act
passed in 1794, the duty was imposed in propor-
tion to the quantity of snuff manufoctured ; many
objections and comfdaints having been made
against this mode of collecting the revenue, the
duly was transferred to the mills, mortars, and
hand-milla employed, which now, by the act of
1796, pay a certain stipulated sum. whether they
work much or little, and this is the basis of the
complaint made by Mr. Wright, who states thai
by exacting an arbitrary sura, the great manu-
facturer and the lesser one are placed upon a level
in regard to the quantum of excise, and of this
circumstance, Mr. Wright warmly complains.
He concludes by earnestly soliciting that the new
law may he repealed, and the old one restored in
its place. The petition was, on motion, referred
to the Committee of Commerce and Moanfoc-
tures.
MAGNUS KING.
Mr. Tbacy moved that the report of the Com-
mittee of Claims of last House of Representa-
tives, on the petition of Magnus King and others,
should be taken up for the purpose of permittiug
the petitioners to withdraw their petition. This
was agreed to.
The House then resumed the consideration of
the report on the petition of Magnus King and
others. Mr- Gallatin wanted to hear the papers
on this subject read before the petition should be
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
U-ofR.]
Speech of the President.
pBCBMBBB, 1795.
rejected, that the Hoase might know with eer-
t&iDiy what they were doing.
Iq reply, il was obseryed by Mr. Tracy, that
the motion for grantioK leave to withdraw the
petition was made at the desire of the parlies
themselves, who had been with Mr. Tb&cy this
moFuiog, and requested leave to withdraw their
pelitioa. He hoped that, afYer ihia expUnBtion,
no objection could be made. Leave was accord-
ingly granted.
T)n motion of Mr. W. Smith, the resolutiua
for opeoing a Land Office, was taken up and
passed; and Mr. Smith, Mr. Habtlet, Mr. Ni-
cholas, Mr. KiTCBCLi., and Mr. Glen, were ap-
prepare and bring in a
bill
lill.
A memorial was presented aitd read against
theelection of Mr. John Swan WICK, present Repre-
sentative of the city of Philadelphia in Con-
gress.
Mr. SwAHwicK obaeived that he had, some lime
ago, heard of the intention to bring forward this
memorial. He felt himself extremely interested
to have the facts stated in it examined with Ehe
utmost celerity, and should move that the memo-
rial may be immediately referred, for this purpose,
to the Committee of Elections. The memorial
was referred accordingly.
PRESIDENT'S SPEECH.
The Houu then went into a Committee upon
the resolutions proposed by Mr. W. Smith, some
On tae article which mentions the farther pro-
vision which oueht to be made for tbe security of
the frontiers, and for protecting tbe Indians from
the disorderly inhabitants of the frontiers,:'
Blount observed that the expressions used __
this subject by Mr. Habfeb, and by a member
from Connecticut, bad gtveo very great offence
to the frontier people. He said this from having
lately been in that country, where he learned the
circumstance. He was glad to hear that the gen-
tlemen in question did not wish to use the same
words arain. He was for striking out the ofien-
sive implication in the clause. Mr. Findlet and
Mr. Nicholas concurred in this opinion, which
was agreed to.
Mr. Tracy said that he was roatly to vote for
the resolution thus curtailed, if gentlemen would
declare it as being understood, that tbe Indians
were to be protected against the frontier people.
He did not think that we were to protect them
against the Spaniards, who never, to his know-
ledge^ had attempted to disturb them. It was not
certainly against the other Indians. If, then, it
was not against the frontier people, the resolution
had no meaning.
Mr. MiLLEDOE stated the impropriety and im-
prudence of offending the frontier people, many of
whom, if not the best, were amone the best peo-
ple in the United Stales.
Mr. Heath stated, as a notorious fact, known
to every person in the United States, that there
■re lawless persons on tbe frontiers, who have
committed very great enormities against the In- 1
dians. He did not wish to irritate. There may
be many very good people upon the froiitiet;'he
was satisfied that there were many very had ones.
The resolution was agreed to as amended.
The next resolution was for making provision
to supply the Indians in time of peace, and on
such principles as might tend to promote mutual
tranquility.
Mr. Venable thought, that instead of taking
up this tesolution, it would be better to lake up
the law of last year, and see if it wants amend-
ment.
Mr. Deasbobn moved ihata special committee
should be appointed to inquire if any alteration
was necessary in the act, passed last year, for es-
lablishiog trading houses with the Indians.
Mr. Swift said that no law had been passed,
so that there could be no alteration of it. There
was only an appropriation of fifty thousand dol-
lars for tbe establishing of Indian tradine houses.
Mr. Parker stated that this was the fact. He
bad given a great deal of attention, last year, to
this business. No law had passed,
Mr. Smith said, in the last session there was
only provision made of a fund for trading with
the Indians. The matter was finally referred to
a special committee, to bring in a bill.
The next resolution taken up was, that inquiry
ought to be made whether farther means should
be provided to reinforce the existing operations
for the discharge of the Public Debt.
Mr. Gallatin gave in a long amendment. Its
object was to appoint a committee to superintend
the general operations of finance. No s^jbject,
Mr. G. said, more required a system, and great
advantages would be derived from it. The mo-
tion was seconded by Mr. Finoley.
Mr, W. Smith did not object to the amend-
ment in itself, but as embracing a quite distinct
object from the original resolution, he appre-
hended that, in tbe shape of an amendment, it
would be out of place. The re.iolulion was with-
drawn.
The resolution suggested by Mr. Swanwick. as
to an inquiry into the state of the American
Navy, dtc, was like wise agreed to. The Commit-
tee then rose, and the Chairman reported that
they had gone into consideration of the slate of
the Union, and come to sundry resolutions, which
were again read over by the Clerk.
The first resolution, for inquiring into the state
of the Military Establishment, passed, and a com-
mittee of five members was appointed to report.
The resolution regarding the Militia of the
United Slates was likewise agreed to, and a com-
mittee of fourteen members named.
The resolution for the protection of the Indians
gave occasion for a few words as to the mode of
wording the clause. A committee of three mem-
bers was proposed for preparing and reporting a
bill.
Mr. Blount thought this number too small.
He would wish for a much larger one, consisting
of at least seven. He thoneht that some of the
members from the frontier should be in it, as they
ounld give considerable information on the sub
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OP CONGRESS.
Dechnbeb, 1795.]
Addrem to the Pretident.
[H.orR.
jeet, and because, if not named in the committee,
II coald not be so certain th&t thej would giie
(heir usistmnee. The motion for seven memben
wa$ seconded bv Mr. Nicholas. On a division
of the House, tte numbers on each side were
thirty-eifht, and the casting voice of the Speaker
wu for Ibe larger number. It was proposed by
Mr, W. Smitb, that Mr, White, delegate from
ibe Territory Southwest of the Ohio, should be
added to the committee, as his local knowled^.
and peculiar opportunities of information, pointed
bin out as an extremely proper member of it.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. Blount hav log observed that he himself
could cait considerable light on the state of the
frontiers, from a recent journev throuirh that part
of ibe Union, he was named by the Speaker as
uoeof the committee of seven. He requested to
be eicused, as he was already on the Committee
of Elections, which would engross much of his
aiiention, but assuring the House, at the same
lime, that he should, if his name was permitted
10 be withdrawn, give the committee every aid in
bis power. Leave was granted.
On reading the resolution a* to a committee for
inquiring about the existing operations on the
Public Debt, Mr. Nicholas moved to reject it
tbat the resolution by Mr. Qallatin might be
■dopted in its room, as it comprehended the object
oTMr. W.Smith in its own.
Mr. Ven ABLE seconded the motion, on the same
ground.
Mr. Harper approved the idea, but did not see
:be use of rejecting the resolution of Mr. Smith.
Hf would rather have that of Mr. Gallatin add-
^ as an amendment. Mr. Swanwick, was of the
Mr. Gallatin himself, on further consideration,
'bought his resolutiwi not sufficiently digested for
KUas upon. He desired a postponement until
Monday next of the resdution before the House.
Mr. SEnawiCK would readily have consented to
ibii. if it had not been out of order.
Mr. Gallatin read a rule of the House to show
ibat the motion was in order. The Speaker de-
clared the same ihiitg. The motion for postpone-
ment was then adopted.
The follomne is a copy of the resolutions, as
<ni at the Clerk's table :
JUtoited That ii
Itaohtd, Tbat it i* the opinion at this committee
^ more efbctuai proTiiion ought to be nude lor or-
t^oiiiiig, Aiming, and diaciplining the Militia of the
I-'iiiud States.
Kfeital, That it i« the opinion of this committee
lui «&Ki(ui prwriMtn ought to be made for the seen-
'^T of Um frontuta, and for the pnleotioD of the In-
'oni tnan uy inimies bj any at the inhabitant! of
t>» United Bute*.
"opfaed, Tbat it is the opinion of tfaia eommittse
<Wp*oTiaan onght to be made Ibi nip[^ng the ne-
■■wtiM of lb* Indian natknia within otu limit*, on such
innony between those nations and the United State*.
Saoiitd, That it is the opmion of this comoiittee
that inquiry ought to be made whether Anther mea-
*ure* are neeeeaary to reinforce the exiBting proiioon
hr the redsmption of the Public Debt.
ReMhed, Tbtt it it the opinion of this committee
that an inquiry ODght to be made, whether any, and
whit, further pTOTinions are necesiaiy for carrying the
operations of the Mint more completely into eil^t.
Saolved, That it is the opinion of thia mmmittee
that a committee onght to be appointed to inquire into
the stale of the Naval Equipment oidered by a tormer
law of the United Steteai luid to report whether any,
and what, Airther provimon ii necessary to be made on
that sntjecC
The first, aecuod, third, and fourth lesolulions
severally read the s ' "' ■ . . -l_
Mr. Maclay, Mr. Wadswohtb, and Mr. Ghib-
WDLn, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the
first resolution.
Ortlered, That a bill or bills be brought in pur-
suant to the second resolution.and that Mr. Giles,
Mr. GiLMAN, Mr. Dearborn, Mr. Malbone, Hr.
Buck, Mr. Tracy, Mr. Van Cortlandt, Mr.
Thompbon, Mr. Heibtes, Mr. Pattem, Mr. Sam-
nEL Smith, Mr. Locke, Mr. Hampton, and Mr.
MiLLEDOE. do prepare and bring in the se
and Mr. Wbite, do prepare and bring in the same.
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pur-
suant to the fourth resolution, and tbat Mi. Par-
ker, Mr. Samuel Lvman, and Mr. Tatoh, do pre-
pare and bring in the same.
Ordered, That the consideration of the fifth re-
solution be postponed until Monday next.
Ordered, That the sixth and 'seventh resota-
tioDs do lie on the lable.
ADDRESS TO THE FKE8IDENT.
At twelve o'clock, the Speaker, attended by
the House, waited upon the Prebidbht of tub
United States, and delivered to him the follow-
ing Address, in answer lo his Speech lo both
Houses at the opening of the session ;
Sib : As the Reprauntatives of the people of the
United SlaUi, we cannot but participate in the stioilg-
eet senaibUity lo every bieuung which they enjoy, and
cheerfully join with you in profound gratitude lo the
Author of all Good for the numerous end eitraordinaiy
bleaainga which he has conferred on our favored counliy.
A final and formal termination of the diatresring war
which ha* ravaged out Noithweatem Frontier, will be an
event which muat aSbrd aatislaction proportioned to the
anxiety with which it has long been aought ; and in the
adjustment of (he term*, we perceive the true p<^cy of
making them satisbctoiy to the Indiana aa well a* to
the United States, M the best basia of a durable tran-
quility. The diapoatian of such of the Southern tiibsa
a* had abo heretofore annoyed onr frontier, is another
C^ieel in out ntoation ao important to the inlerert and
pinaa* of the United Slataa, llut it i* much to b« U-
;dbvGOOgle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H. dp R.]
Cmtuted EUetton.
[Dt>cuiBER,1795.
moilad that anj clonda iluHild ba throaf n over it, moia
c^Bciallj by eroMww on the put of our ovn citizcuia.
While our popuUtian u wlvudng irtth & celerity
which exceeds the nuMt gaiiguiiie cKiculcIioiu — while
T put of the Untied SCatea diqilaya indicationa of
} rarioua improTement — while we am in the
emoynient of protection and eecority, by mild and
Trholeaame lawa, sdminiitered by Govemmenta found-
ed on the genuins piinciplee of rational liberty, a •ecure
fbundation will be laid ioi accelerating, maturing, and
catablishing the proiperity of oar country, if by treaty
and amicable ot^odation, all thoae caugea of external
discord which heretorore menaced onr tranqnili^ shall
be extinguiahed, on teriDa compatible with our natioDal
lighta andhonor, with OUT ConstitulioD and greatcom-
laercia] intereats.
Among the variona circumatuicu in our internal ail-
uatioii, none can be viewed with more sitiBfactian and
exultation than that the late acene of disorder and in-
nureclion haa been completely leetored to the enjoy-
ment of order and repose. Such a triumph of reaiion
and of law ii wordiy of the free 'Ooiemment under
which it happened, and waa justly to be hoped from the
enlightened and patriotic apirit which peiradea and ao
tuatea the petals of the United Statea.
Id contemplatiDg that apeetade of national happinees
whldi ow eonnti; exhibila, uid of whieh yon, air, hare
bem pleaaed tomakeanintereetingBniiunuy, permit na
to aeluMwledge at>d dedare the very great ahare whidt
youi zealona aw) bilhAil eervicei have contributed to it,
and to eipren the afiectionate attachment which we
feel tot your character.
The aeveraj interesting aubjecta which yon recommend
to ouj coniideration will receive BTery degree of atten-
tion which ia due to them. And whilst we teet the obli-
gation of temperance and mutnsl indulgence in all our
diacuadoru, we trual and pray tiuil £e result to the
happiness and wdlare of our country maj correspond
with the pure affection we bear to it.
To the foregoing Addiess the President woe
pleased to make the fallowing leply r
Gbhtlikim: Ctaningaayoq do from all parts of the
United States. I receive great aatia&ction bom the con-
currence of your testimony in ^e juitneas of the inte-
resting summary of our national happineaa, which, as
the result of my inquiries, I preaentnl to your view.
The santinients we have mutually eipreaaed of profbond
gntitode to the source of tbMe numerous bleaaingB —
the AulhoT of all Good — are pledges of our obligations
to unite OUT sinoiTe uid icatous endeavors, as the in-
struments of Divine Providence, to pteaerve and per-
petiute them.
'Accept, gentlemen, mj thanks for your declaration,
that to my agency yon aacriba the enjoyment of a great
diaro of these benellts. So &t as my servicfia cmtri-
bate to the hslqiinesa of my country, the acknowledg-
ment of my fellow-citizens, and their aiftctionale attach-
meul, will ever prove an abundant reward.
O. WASHINGTON.
PiiiDAy, December 18.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
_Mr- Venablb pve in a report from the Com-
—■—i of Electtons i.„ ™^ ,■.=«,„,«, ui johi.
KICBARD8, rewectug the coDteated election be-
tween him and Jahgb Mobs — ' — '
: the memorial of JoHi
Itemed election
1, now deceaaed.
The report was read by the Clerk, which was
that the seat ot Jambs Moaaie is declared vacat-
ed ; and it is recommended that the Oovemor oi
" eansylTaaia should issue writs for a new election-
Mr. SiTOBGAVEe moved that the report of the
Committee on Elections should be read a second
time. This being done, the member stated that
Mr. RicHABDa had gone back to the countr; tin-
der an idea of acquieeciugin the report. Upon this
ground he moved that the report should be ap-
proved of by the House.
Mr. Heibter stated that he had seen a letter to
Mr. RicBAttDB, informing him of sickness in hia
family, and that was the only cause of his imme-
diate return to the country, as he had no design of
submitting tacitly to the repuit.
Mr. Vehable entered into a detail of the cir-
cumstances attending this election. He recom'
mended that the House should avoid precipitation-
He ^aid that the committee, in their report, had
not completely decided the business.
Mr. KiTTERA likewise entered into a minute
discussion of the circumstances attending the
election.
Mr. SiTOHEAVEH expUuned, that he had propos-
to the House to take up the report of the commit-
tee, under an impression that Mr. RioBABoa, by
leaving town, was satisfied and willing to submit
lo it. He withdrew his u: '
the c:
J, when h
that there was do question before the House.
Mr. GALt.ATiN then moved that the report
should be re-committed to the select committee,
fur which ,he gave vuious reasons. Mr. Sit-
□REAvEs seconded the motion.
Mr. Harper was for the re-commitmenL He
observed that the arguments of Mr. Qallatin
had been adopted andacted upon by the ci
The report was, on motion, read a second time.
The cause of this contested election appeare to
have been chiefly the absence of a great number
of elecUMi in this district of Pennsylvania, upon
the Western expedition. They were authorized,
by a particular law to that effecC| to vote for a Re-
pteseDtative in Confess, provided that the re-
turns were made withmaspeciBedlegallime. The
votes returned within that time for the deceased
Mr. Morris were 1,648, and those for Mr. Ricb-
AHDB 1,635. This gave to the former a majority
of 13.
Mr. BiTQRBAvEe understood the complaint of
Mr. RicHARnB to be, that the unsound votes ob-
jected to were comprehended in the preceding
numbers, whereas Mr. BrroRGAVes himself a
member from the same district, aod who beJne
on the spot at the lime of the dispute, could speak
with accuracy, knew that the fact was otherwise.
Mr, Swirr said, that as the gentleman who waa
last Dp spoke from personal Knowledge, he sup-
posed of course thai his assertion was troe ; butMr.
Richards himself had said to the committee that
all the unsound votes had been returned after the
time prescribed by law. Perhaps he had oiianB-
deruood himself, but Mr. Swiit thought a re-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Ui^muked Btmnet*.
[H.0
It DAceenry for the Mtke of explBnalton.
Mr, FiHDLBv argued oa the aaoie aide. The
report wat re-eoinoiilted.
UNPINIBHED BUSINESS.
The House, on motion of Mr. Goodhde, took
npthe report of ihe Committee on the Unfinished
nuiiies:!. The leport was a^aia lead.
The Grsc law recited as being near expiring, is
ilie law for receiving on loan the Domestic Debt
of the United Sialea ; this law expires the 3Ist
December, 1795. A committee of three was ap-
pointed. !□ report by bJI or otherwise on the ex-
pediency of extending the term of the law.
The next article in the report refers to simdry
Hts which will expire at the end of the present
These sets are for establishing a Health Office,
ibe act respecting light-houses, beacons, dtc.
On motion, they were referred to the committee
lul appointed.
The several acts providing for the itLtereourse
of ihe United Stales with foreign natioiis, will
tipire at the end of the present session.
On motion, referred Co the same eommiitee, to
''insider H.nd report onihe propriety of continning
The act for renewing lost or destroyed certifi-
'iics will expire in June next. It wjs laored that
'^li ^ould be referred to the same committee, to
'tpori on the expediency of continuing the same
«!oad that period. This motion was withdrawn.
' upearing that the object of this Jaw would then
Vtiilly accomplished.
The unfinished business of the last session was
^iien recapitulated.
Mr. Seihiwick moved that the opinion of the
'ixnmitiee, annexed to the report, which is, that
>U Tepoits and petitions depending or undecided
upon by the last House, should be taken up on
muiion of individual members or application of
!tiepetitioners, should be adopted by the House.
fhii proposition was agreed to.
The House then proceeded in the consideration
^ the tesclotions reported by the Committee of
'lie Whole on the stale of the Union.
The resolution rdaliv« to the Mint was passed
liter. Ii appearing that the subject was before
w Senate.
The resolution relative to the Naval Equipment
'na then read.
Mr. BoORNB proposed that the Committee
'wuld be iostnicied to extend their inquiries to
Estate of the foitificatitms of the ports and bar-
il^ It appeared that inforroation on the subject
n the Naval Equipment was preparing to be laM
wfMB the House.
On motion of Mr. Sherburne, it was voted that
'Be tewlnticMi should lie over till Monday. Mr.
SwiMwicK laid on the tablea resolution foT a eom-
niitee to inquire into the state of the fortifica-
'loas; [he proereas' made relative to procuring
'itrs for anenals ; also, in relation to procuring
ttms and miliury stores.
it was moved thM the Committee of the Whole
^<lischarged from the consideration of the letter
from the Secretary of War, accompanied with
sundry statements and reports. The motion was
agreed to.
The House then attended to the reading of the
papers received from the Secretary of War. The
Erst paper readwasareDort relative to the Military
Estaolishment of the United btaies.
2d. Report of the^measurcs that have been pur-
sued lor obtaining proper sites for arsenals.
3d. Report of the measures that have been ta-
ken for replenishing the arsenals with arms, ord-
nance, and military stores.
4th. Report uf the measures taken for opening
trade with the Indian tribes.
5th. A statement of the progress that has been
made in the building the frigates generally :
The 6lh, Tth, 8th, 9th, and 10th particular state-
ments of the progress made in building the fri-
^tes constructing in Philadelphia, New York,
Boston, Norfollt, Ballimore, and Portsmouth, New
Hamjahire.
On motion of Mr. SwAitwiCK, the letter of the
Secretary of War, with the accompanying state-
ments and reports, were referred to the Commit-
tee of the Wnole on the state of the Union.
There was next received and read a report, dat-
ed this day, from the Commissioners of Uie Sink-
ing Fund, slating tbe progress which has been
made in redeeming the Puolic Debt. The ust^
number of copies of the report, and statements
which accompanied it, was cHtlered to be print^
for the use of the members.
Mr. Hbath laid on the table a motion for ap-
pointing a committee to inquire if any, or what
aiteratioua are necessary to be made in the act
for establishing Poet Offices and Post Roads in
the United States.
Mr. Gallatin also laid on the table his resolu-
tion respecting tbe esiablishmeot oS a Commil-
of Finance, which is to be taken up on Man-
'V.
LiviHoeroN called up his motion, laid o
tee to inquire and report whether any, and what,
alterations ought to be mode in the penal code of
the United States.
.^f^er an amendment, the resolution was adopt-
ed, and a committee of three members appointed
to report
Mr. Harfbr called up his motion that a select
committee should be appointed to examine and
report on the petition of Parker, Hopkins, and
Meers, reUtive to a Survey of the Southern
Coast. The report of the select committee oflast
session was read. Mr, Ltman saw no ass for
referring to a new committee. He would have
the report referred aa it stands, to a Committee of
the Whole.
Mr, Hajifer persisted in his motion for a new
select committee. As far as he had been able to
learn the rules and practice of the House, a new
committee wa* requisite. Perhaps they might
adopt the old report, without altering a word of it.
'"hey were at libettv to do so.
Mr. Macok said that it was the practice to make
everything begin de wno. The resolntioti -was
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HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
Proceedings.
tecotd'mgiy cftmed, and a committee of three
members; TJz ; Mr. Hirrisor, Mr. MAUFTOH,Bnd
Mr. Havens, were nomiiiated for ihai piupoie.
The House then adjourned till Monday next.
Monday, December 81.
A petition was presented by Mr. Brent, from
sundry inhabitaols of Loudoun and Fairfax coun-
ties, Virginia, praying the extension of the post
road through tbose districts. Laid on the table.
Tlie House took up the resolution respecting
the Post Office law, laid on the table last week by
Mr. Hbath. Ttiia resolution was agreed to, and
a committee appointed to make the necessary in-
quiry whether any, and what, alterations are ne-
cessary in that law. Nme members were nom-
inated on the committee. The petition presented
by_ Mr. Brent was referred to the above com-
mittee.
Mr. Gallatin called up his resolution for the
appointment of a standing -Commitlee of Ways
and Means. This motion was agreed to nem.
It was moved thai the committee consist of se-
ven; this vfas objected to, as being too small a
number. Fourteen were moved for.' The incon-
veniences of so large a committee were stated ; it
was difficult to convene them; much time was
wasted in wailing. The result had been, that a
sub-committee had generally done the business.
The advantages of alarge committee were urged ;
more general information would be obtained ; the
objects were numerous and important; the settle-
ment of principles wonld be more satisfactorily
determined in a large committee, while the de-
tails and examination of accounts might be attend-
ed to by a sub-commit lee.
The motion for fourteen was agreed to, and the
following gentlemen were appointed, viz ;
Messrs. William Smith, Seoowick, Madison,
Baldwin, Gallatin, Boobnb, Giluan, Mdrrat,
Buck, Gilbert, Isaac Smith, Blodnt, Patten,
and HlLLBOCBE.
To this committee are to be referred all reports
from the Treasury Department, all propositions
relating to revenue, and they are to report on the
atate of the Public Debt, revenues, and expeud-
TcESDAY, December 22.
Nathaniel Smith, from Connecticut, ^pear-
ed, was quaUfied,and took his seat in the House.
Among the petitions presented to-day was one
from Nathaniel Appleton, Loan-uHice Commis-
sioner for the State of Massachusetts ; which pe-
tition waa referred to a Committee of five.
Mr. Sbdowick moved, that this committee bt
directed to report whether any, and if any, what
additional compensation ought to be allowed to
the Commissioneis of Loans and their clerks, for
1796.
Thehi^ priceofliving was pleaded in favor of
notion. In opposition, it was mentioned, that
the Slates can get men to fill their most important
offiaes, reputably, for sums which Federal officen,
less responsible and easier stations receive. This
Seience creates inviduous distinctions, which
might be increased, if the motion should prevail.
The motion vras lost.
A report was then read from the Committee of
Claims, on a variety of petitions.
1 motion, from Mr. Tract, the first of these
petitions was read a second time. The petitioner
was Colonel Benjamin Titcomb. By a law of last
session, an officer cannot be entitled to a future
salary, till he shall have returned the commuta-
tion formerly received. Mr. Titcomb had sold
his commutatioa, and he could not retom it.
The report of the Committee of Claims was,
that the prayer of the petition could not be grant-
ed, but trie petitioner have leave to withdraw it.
Mr. Shebbcrne moved that the report shoald
lie on the table for the present. He had heard of
the petitioner's ease, that it wasan extremely hard
one, and that he was, in every way, a worthy and
deserving man. Mr. S., the motion not being in
order, varied it, and moved that the report should
lie on the table till Monday.
Mr. Tracy said, that wtien the report came to
be taken up, he hoped it would be on the priDcij^e
which had actuated the committee. He, as well
as the other members^ wasfull^ impressed with a
sense of the merits of the petitioner, and if it was
possible to devise a mode of granting him relief
without contravening the act, it should be done;
but the committee had thought themselves bound
by the former act. The report lies on (be table
till Monday.
Mr. Harrison laid the following motion on
the table.
" That >o much of the report »f the Secretuy ofSlste
of the 131h of June, 1T90, and of the Mewage of the
President of the United States of the 8th of January
Isrt, u relatM to Weights and Heaaurea, be referred to a
commiltoe to eiunine nnd report lo the Honss."
Mr. Venable moved that the Committee of
Elections should hare power to send for persons,
papers, and records, as former committees haJ
Wednesday. December 2S.
Mr. Goodbde moved that anew member should
be added to the committee appointed to bring iit a
bill respecting compensatien to members oT both
Houses of Ctmgress, and their officers, after the
3d of March next. The cause of this motion was,
that Mr. Earlb, one of their number, was iadis-
Mr. Giles recommeuded that a member should
be added without laying aside Mr. Barle, so that
in case of his recovery, he might still afford his
services to the committee. Agreed to.
Divers petitions of sundry citizens and inhabit-
ants of the State of Virginia, whose names are
thereunto subscribed, were presented to the House
and read, praying that the Representatires of the
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Daniel OoodtBin.
[H.ofR.
people, i[
doni, ado]
, , ID CoDKiess assembled, will, in their wis-
doni, adopt hocq measures, touching the Treaty of
Amitf, Commerce, and NavigatioD, between the
United States and Great Britain, lately neRoiiated
by authority of the PRBStDENT or the Umitgd
States, and coadilioDally ratified by the Senate,
u shall most effectually secure, free from encroach-
ment, the Constilutionaldelegated powers of Con-
gress, and the chartered rights of the people, and
preserve to our country an uninterrnpted continu-
ance of the blessings of peace.
Also, a memorialofsiuidrycitiieDi of the State
of New York, whose names ace thereunto sub-
scribed, praying to be indemnified by the Oovem-
menl of the United States, for the property which
has been unjustly taken from them by the armed
vessels of the British, when in the regular pursuit
of their commerce.
Ordertdj That the said petitions and memorial
be committed to the Committee of the Whole
House on the state of the Union.
The House then went into a Committee of the
Whole, on the report of the Committee of Olaiios.
DANIEL GOODWIN.
The report on the petition of Daniel Goodwin,
was taken up and read. It recommended that, in
opposition to the act of limitation, the Secretary
of the Treasury should be appointed to settle the
debt, agreeably to the desire of the petition.
\Ir. SwiPT wished lo know the motives for this
distinction infaTorof Mr. Qoodwiu.
Mr, Tbacv, as Chairman of the Committee of
Chims, rose to give this eiplanation. The snb-
lUnce of the case was shortly this: During the
Itte war, Mr. Thomas Cashing, a gentleman in
niblic service, had received orders for building, at
Boston, a seventy-four gun ship. On this occa-
sion, he occupied a wharf and some buildings be-
longing to the late Mr. Benjamin Gh>odwia, father
to the petitioner. The sum due by him, as com-
pensation, had been determined by arbitration.
Both Mr. Gushing and Mr. Goodwin died, some
years after; and the award and other papers, which
were in the custody of the former gentleman, were
mislaid ; and could not be found, till after the act
of limitBlion took place. The Committee consi-
dered this circumstance as forming an excuse for
the omicsioD of presenting the claim within the
time preuribed by law. They had no doubt that
the debt was, in itself, just and fair ; for, on exami-
nation, they found thai Mr. Gushing had not re-
ceived, at the settlament of his officiui accounts,
any money on that head from the Treasury of the
Doited Slates. The amount reaUy due was like-
wise ascertained by the award. Mr. Tract staled
ihat this report was not a favorite with the Com-
mittee of Claims. They wished for the direction
of the Mouse, to serve them as a rule in similar
cases, to which ihey would pay the strictest re-
fard. The Committee had thought that it was
y an act of Providence that Mr. Goodwin had
been jve vented from lodging hisclaim, not by any
negligence of his own. Mr. T. then went mto a
ioDg statement of the measures taken by Govern-
ment to satisfy ita creditors. From this detail, he
inferred the necessity for a statute oi limitations.
Government had done everything possible to warn
its creditors. It had almost gone to the highways
and hedges to compel them to come in. There
was great pleasure and honor in looking back upon
such conduct. One cloud only hung over the
transaction. This was Ihe necessity for paying
with certificates, which bad frequently been re-
sold, at-a very law rate, to the great loss of the
real creditor. It was an object of regret, but could
not possibly be helped. The Committee of Claims
had, in general, been very cautious of admitting
exceptions to the statute of limitations. In this
instance, they had not thought themselves author-
ized positively to reject a demand that was un-
questionably just in itself, but had left the matter
lo the decision of the Hou^e.
Mr. CKBieTiE was opposed to the report. He
had at first thought the actof limitation an unjust
one ; but when one of (his committee, last winter,
he was convinced of the necessity for something
of the kind. There had been negligence in some
quarter about this demand, for it lay asleep six
years and eis-bt months. He would have no par-
tial repeal of the statute.
Mr. Swift saw no act of God which had inter-
vened to prevent the petitioner from prosecuting
the claim within the legal time. Thousands 5
other cases, just as equitable, might be admitted
on the same ground as the present one. It would
be endless (o open such a door. He hoped that
the committee would not agree lo the report, be-
cause shoals of demands would arise, of which it
was impossible, from the distance of tmie, to prove
whether they were just or not. To enforce the
statute of limitation might seem rigorous upon
individuals, hut it was a real act of equity to the
public. There were reasons to believe that many
thousands, if not millions of dollars had been paid
for dishonest demands, and on fictitious evidence.
The House might sit all the year round, if they
look op such a principle, and yet never get
through.
Mr. Gilbert was opposed to the resolution, ai
reported by the committee. He said that the claim
oflhe petitioner was either Inrred or not barred
by the act of limitation ; if it was not barred by
such limitation, there needed no such Legislative
interposition ; if it were barred by the acl of limit-
ation, he could not agree to Ihe resolve, because
he could never consent to a partial repeal or sus-
penstoQ of that act ; he doubted of the justice or
policy of repealine the act of limitation partially,
and much more of repealing it generally. The re-
port of the committee, he said, shows that the
claim of the petitioner is barred by the act of limit-
ation, and therefore he could not consent lo the
resolu ti on proposed.
Mr. B. BocRNE was satisfied to stand by the law
in general ; but urged that there might be reason-
able exceptions, of which the present formed one.
He denied that there had been any negligence on
the side of the petitioner, and entered mto an ex-
planation to demonstrate that there' had been none,
and where there wa« none, the Gorertiiiient were
justice boimd lo pay.
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HISTORY OP C0NGHE8S.
164 '
H-opR.]
Darnel Goodvin.
[Deoembsr, 1795.
Blr. DsABSOBHBbowed tbe unfaimen of debar-
liog a persm from pay m«iit of a d«bt admitted to
be due. because, t)j tia accident which he could
not hel^ bia ^pers had been for nome lime mie-
laid. He inauted thai no Tolantary delar had
taken place on tbe part of Mr. Goodwin, and tbat
there oagbt to be a distinction belireen those who
wei« n^Ligent and those who were not so. He
obseiTed that, fora loo^ time, there had been very
little encoura^ment, indeed, to make any de-
mands on (he American Treasury. He put the
case of a private person, who is unable to pay his
debts } few people would choose to be at the ex-
pense of prosecuting him, merely for the sake of
aaeettaimng the amount of a claim from which
nothing can be hoped for. In the progress of hu'
man affairs, he improves in his circumstances, and
then his creditors are entitled to state their de-
mands. Sometbiog like this happened to the
United Stales, from about 1779 till 1789. The
Kospectof apublic creditor was unpromising, and
! would not undertake a journey of some bun-
dredi of miles to present a claim apparently worth
little or nothing. Mailers have since altered for
the better, and now it is but fair thai those*
who wsnt money shonld come forward and
claim it.
Mr. HtLLRotrsE was decidedly against the re-
Krt. The reasoDS^Tenbytbememnerwhospoke
It. might apply to many other petitions as well
an that on the table. The lodging of a ciai
not have been either troublesinue or expcnsivp.
There was no necessily for a journey of some hun-
dred miles, for it might have been sent by post.
He WHS convinced of Degligence on the part of
Goodwin. Why did he not lodge his claim as di-
rected by the statute'? Il was said that he had
applied personally lo the public officer for pay-
ment ; of this application, tnere was no proof !t
was (dead, that tr_is was a strong case. If we agree
on that account, there will soon be another so
closely resembling tbe former, that it will be hard
to point out the difiereoce. Then we shall have
a third, and so on, till tbe whole statute is in fact
repealed. It would be much better to repeal the
law at once. He bad voted against allowing some
claims, which he would otherwise have supported.
but that the precedent would have had a general
and dangerous operation. He was for adhering
rigidly to the law.
Mr. DovALt. insisted that there was no neglect
on the side of the petitioner. He regarded the
people of the United States to be as much obliged
■o pay this debt, as any ooe against them. The
Touchers bad been left in the hands of the public
officers, so that the blame did not attach to the
private pany.
On motion by Mr. Malbohe. tbe petition was
read.
Mr. SwiPT then contended that proper applica-
tion had not been made by Goodwin ; no case could
more justly come within the statute.
Mr. Lthan was against the clause.
Mr. GAiXATiH rose to inquire if Mr. Gushing,
as Com inental Agent, was the proper officer to set-
tle Mr. Goodwin's account. If he was so, Mr. Q.
would not consider the claim as bound by tbe act
of limitation.
Mr. Sbdowiok. — Unless we adhere to the sta-
Inle of limitation, the derangement will be end-
less. He was convinced that, to pay this demand,
we most get over the statute. He could look on
the awara as nothing more than evidence of the
amount of the debt. It should have been pre-
sented in proper time to tbe officer of the Treasu-
ry. It was not ; and the creditor, in consequence
01 his neglect. Is now precluded from doing so.
Mr. HiLLBOOBi thought that there never was,
nor could be, a clearer case.
Mr. VBHAB1.B warned the Committee of the
danger of granting one claim which could not fail
of producing multitudes.
On dividing, the ayes in favor of the report
were only twenty-nine. It was therefore lost.
Tbe Committee then rose. The Chairman re-
ported, and the House agreed to tbe report.
An address wis then presented and read from
certain merchants and underwriters in New York,
who complained heavily of British depredations,
and entreated the intetfereoce and protection of
Congress. It was, on motion, referred to the Com-
mittee of the Whole on the state of the Union.
Tbdi
iBDAY, December 24.
Qbeendp, from Kentucky, ap-
puured, was qualified, and took his seat.
Mr. Seoowicu laid on the table a resoluiimi,
that, when the House adjourn this day, the Pbb-
aiOBHT of the Senate, and the Spbikeb of the
House of Representatives, be authorized to ad-
journ both Houses, respectively, till Monday next.
Mr. GiLse recommeuded that ihe House, with-
out this formality, should at ouce adjourn them-
selves from Thursday till Monday. They were
authorized to do so by the Coostilulian.
Mr. SBnawicK preferred the idea of Mr. Gilbb,
for his own opinion, but b« some very respectable
gentlemen entertained scruples on the point, he
was wilting to obviate them by his own resolution,
as above stated.
As to the present adjonrnment, there was not,
(Mr. QiLBB tnought) much importance attached
to the mode of it ; but, as forming a precedent
against the privileges of tbe House in future, it
might be of consequence.
Mr. Tract bad been disposed for simply ad-
journing till Monday..
Mr. W. Shitb was of ibe same opinion.
The resolution of Mr. Sedowicr vras then nega-
tived, and another for adjourning till Monday,
when the House rises this day, was proposed by
Mr. QooDHnE, and adopted.
Mr. HiLLBonaB then moved that, for one week
to oome, twelve o'clock shall be the hour of meet-
ing. The reason for this alteration was, that the
numerotis committees into which the House is
divided, may have leisure to prepare their reports.
It was then moved, and agreed to refer to the
Committee of Ways and Means, the estimates of
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Dbcbhbh, 1705.] Land* tn ffyr1kv>ettem TerrUmy— Robert RandaU.
[H.ofR.
appropiutioiiE for the support of Qorerament, for
the jtM 1796.
It was also moved that so much of the report of
theSecretarr of State, of the 13th July, 1790, and
the Message of the PaBaipeNT, of the 8th of Janif
•rr last, as relates to Weights and Meatiures, be
nfened to a select comnuttee ; and Mr. Habbi-
80N, Mr, Srerbdrnb, and Mr. Maclat, were ap-
pointed.
After receiving and disposing of a number of
petitions —
The report of the Attorney General, on the fees
in the Courts of the Uitited States, was commit-
ted to a committee of three members, to prepare
ud bring in a bill.
On a motion hj Mr. Giles, one member
added to the Committee of Ways and Means, and
inother to tbe Committee on Oiganizing the '"
litii.
Monday, December 38.
Akdbew Qbeoo, from PeansylTania, appeared,
produced his credentials, was qualified, and took
nil seat.
Mr. VENABue,frDm the Stondiog Committee of
Elections, reported that the committee had ex-
unined several other certificates and credentials
of ibe niembers returned to serve in thin Houm,
ind bad acceed upon a report, whicb be delivered
in at the Clerk's table, where the same wan rend,
ud ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Vbnailje^ from the Committee of £iec-
lioDB, ]»id on the table a resolution, that the com-
mitiee should be empowered to take the deposi-
tions of the witnesses who canoot personally at-
Itad the committee, and that tfaey should be
authorized to point out the mode of taking such
tiidence. The resolution passed.
Mr. W. Smith, from the Committee of Wayi
uid Means, presented a reaolmioo, that an appro-
Miation of moneys be made, ior tbe service of the
Civil List, during tbe yeai 1795. It was referred
to a Committee of the Whole House to-morrow.
LANDS IN NORTHWESTERN TERKITOHY.
Apeiition from certain persons lequesting lands
in tbe Northwestern Territory, on which they
uaied that they had already made various im-
ptOTements, was preaented by Mr. Fostbb, read,
ud referred to the Committee of Claims.
The Clerli then proceeded with reading the re-
port of that committee.
Tbe name* of the petitioners are, Joseph Ca-
■nu, Francis Proctor, NoUe Benedict, James
Clarke, John Slrawfaridge, William Morris, and
<»bei!^, legal representatives of Thomas Morris,
Jacob Shoemaker, Thomas Bovd, Andrew John-
»B, Jesse Colea, Jane Godfrey, Henry Shade, Isaac
8hcTDUD,JohD Hollinshead, William M'Kie, Tris-
tram C<£n, and John Turner. The report was.
u eitrf instance unfavorable. Tbe Hotiae took
Of tbe report and a^^reed to it, with the exception
H the eases of WiUiam Morris and John Toroer,
*hieh wen posqwud to Hondfty nazL
Wnen the petition of Noble Benedict, James
Clarke, and John Strawbrid^, was read, which
prayed compensation for iheir arrears of pay in
the Continental Army, and which bad been paid
in depreciated paper^ a motion was made fur grant-
ing leave to the petitioners to withdraw it.
Mr. Otles did not wish to bring tbe House into
difficulties, but he wished, for the sake of informa-
tion, to defer considering the cane for a week, to
which the House consented.
ROBERT RANDALL— CA8B OF BRIBERY.
Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, requested the
attention of the House, for a moment, to a subject
of a very delicate nature. He understood that a
memorial was, this morning, to be presented from
some individuals, applying for a grant of a large
tract of Western territory, and as the House had
referred all such applications to the committee for
bringing in the Land Office bill, of which he was
Chairman ; and, as it was probable that the me-
morial, about to be preaented, would be disposed
of in toe same manner, he conceived it a duty in-
cumbent upon him to disclose to the House, at
this time, some circnmstances which had come to
his knowledge. Mr. Smith then said that, on
Tuesday evening last, a person of tbe name of
RandaU called on him, requesting an hour of
confidential conversation. In the interview which
took place, Randall made a commanication to
the following effect: He intended to present a
memorial, on the Monday tbllowine, to Congress,
for a grant of all the WesieiataDdslying between
Lakes Michigan, £rie, and Huron, to tbe aiuouni
of about twenty millions of acres. He, and his
associates, some of whom were Canada merchants,
who had great influence over the Indians, pro-
posed to term a company, and to undertake the
extinction of the Indian title, provided ConKress
would cede to them the fee simple of the land.
The property would be divided into forty sharea,
twenty-four of which should be reserved for such
members of Congress as might favor the scheme,
and might be inclined to come into it, after the ad-
jourameot of Congress, on the same terms as the
original associators. Randall himself had the
disposal of twelve shares, lor members from the
Southern States, and a colleague of hia, a like nun^
ber for those of the Eastern Slates. A certain
number of shares were to be the property of those
Canada merchants, who had an unbounded in-
fluence over the Indians occupying those landi,
and who would, if this plan succeeded, pacify
those Indians, who were the most hostile to the
United States; that Gen. Wayne's treaty was a
mere delusion, and that, without the co-operation
of those infiueniial persons, the United States
would never have peace in that quarter. Mr.
Smith said that he communicated this overture,
the next morning, to Mr. Mdbrat, one of the
members from Maryland, requesting hin advice
how to proceed on so delicate an occasion ; that
Mr. MuBBiT reeororaeoded a disclosure to Mr.
Hbhbt, of the Senate, and that, on a consultalion
with those gentlemen, it was resolved that it waa
'.mm«diate coi»-
h those gentlemen, it was resol
. Smith's duty to make an it
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167
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
JttAert JbmdaU—Oue of Bribery.
[Decemveb, 1795.
D of the matter to the PaGeiDEHT, which
was accordiogly done.
Mr. Mdbrav rose next. He had received an
applicauoD'Oflhe samenature, but having already
beard of the piojioEat, " 1 was," said he, " m a state
of preparation, and my virtue had not such a
shock lo encounter, as thai of the gentleman last
up." Mr. M. corroborated what Mr. Smith had
said aaio ihe communicalion of this affair to him-
self. He added, that he had advised Mr. Smith
to give RaDdall another meeting, (or the pur-
pose of d eve! opine his schemes and expectations
mote fully. Mr. M. said that Mr. Smith informed
him on Wednesday mornina;; neit day, in the
morning, he informed Mr. Henht, of the Senate.
Mr. Smith, on that day, informed the President.
On that day. (Thursday,) Mr. Randall was in-
troduced to him, and asked an interview at his
lodging; he gave him an appointment, at five in
(he aflemoon. Mr. Henbt and he were together
when Randall came in. Randall talked about
the policy of extingui shine the Indian title to the
Peninsula formed by Lates Erie, Huron, and
Michigan, containing about eighteen or twenty
millions of acres of very good land ; and talked in
terms that he might have employed from a pulpit.
He did not make any corrnpt overtures, till Mr.
M. had carried him into his own apartment.
There Randall opened his proposals, a.s had been
before mentioned by Mr. Smith, observing chat if
Congress would sell ihis land to him and his com.,
pany, they intended to divide it into forty or torty-
one shares. Twenty-four shares were to be appro-
priated to such members of Congress as chose to
support the memorial, which would be presented
on Monday. The members were to have their
shares upon the same terms on which his company
should obtain the land. The company would give
five hundred thousand, or perhaps a million of
dollars; but on Mr. M.'s apparent acquiescence in
his views, he said that the shares would be given
to the members who advocated the measure, if
they pleased to accept them, after they returned
to their homes. Mr. M. started a difficulty about
the embarrassment of land speculationR, for which
he, personally, had no genius i and then Randall
instantly turned out the cat, and told him that if
A« did not choose the share of land, he should have
cash in hand for his share. Mr. Smith and Mr.
Mdbbay had resolved to disclose this to the House.
lest some innocent member mighl offer a memorial
and become liable to suspicion. Randall had
hinted that larger proportions would be assigned
to the more active members, and lesser ones for
^e small fish.
The Speakbh then rose, and expressed a wish
that some genileman would move for an order to
apprehend Randall. Upon this Mr. Smith again
rose, and said that a warrant to this effect had yes-
terday been issued by the PiiBsinBNT, and to sup-
port which Mr. S. had made oath before a magis-
trate to the particulars above mentioned. He
hoped that by this time the person was taken.
Mr. O11.B8 next rose, and observed that an ap-
^oation from the same Idr, Randall had been
made to himself. Beaidesa repetition of some par-
tienlars already stated, he told Mr. G. that he had
already secured thirty or forty members of this
House, but he wanted to secure three other mem-
bers, if Mr. G. recollected ri^ht He added, that
he had already secured a majority of the Senate.
When this proposal was first made, which Mr. Q.
thought was about ten days ago, a member from
New York[Mr.LiviNOHTOw]was present. Ran-
dall had even gone so far as to say, that a written
agreement was drawn out, and subscribed by a
number of Eastern members, and he wished Mr.
G. to extend another obligation of the same kind
for the Southern members; the purport of which
paper was understood to be, that the members who
voted in support of the disposal of the lands, were
to be secured in a stipulated share of them, with-
out having their names mentioned in the deed.
Mr. G. was solicitous to learn the names of the
tives of delicacy, he durst not communicate any
of the names. Mr. G. then desired a sight of the
agreement, that he might be able to comprehend
its meaning, before he should attempt to draw any
similar paper. The men called a second time,
and, as Mr. G. conceived, about four days ago,
but had never produced the deed or any draft otit.
Mr. G. had already communicated the proposal
to several members, and, in particular, to the
Speaker.
The SpBAKEB [Mr. Datton] mentioned, thai
Mr. GiLGH had, some time ago, informed him of
the proposal. He replied, that if an opportunity
offered, he would lake care to select a committee
consisting of members sure to detect the guilty, if
any such could exist; adding that he eipecced the
House to believe that he would not have used
such words, but on so extraordinary an occasion.
Mr. Christib said, that he was (he person who
had introduced Randall to Mr. Smith and Mr.
McRHAv. He had long known him, as a respect-
able man. Randall had mentioned to Mr. C.. in
general, that it was a landed speculation, and hint-
ed that he, Mr. C, might accept of a share. In
reply, Mr. C. had assured him that he could not
possibly have a concern in any such transaction.
Randall had not, lo Mr. C., insinuated that any
undue advantage would accrue to members sup-
porting the intended purchase.
Mr. Buck, a member from Vermont, mentioned
that a person of the name of Whimey, who ap-
Eears to have been an associate with Randall,
ad called upon him in the country with a pro-
posal of this kind.
Mr. Madison said, that the person referred to
had also called upon him, and told him of his
having waited upon many members, and, among
the rest, upon the Spbakeb. Mr. Madison said,
that the conversation was rather short, owing,
perhaps, to the coldness with which the advances
of Mr. Randall were received. Mr.MAninoN had
already learned, through his friend from Virginia,
[Mr. GiLEB,] the state in which the business was.
He did not wish to alarm the person by ton much
abruptness, and, at the same time, he did not wish
to give himself any unnecessary trouble about it,
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Deceueer, 1795.] Case oj Randall and WhUney— Indian Trading Houses, fc.
fttorR.
as he understood thai it nrould be prope.-ly ma-
naged wiihoul his interference.
Mr. Ltmah mentioDed, that Whttne; had
called un him, but spoke only of the plan geac-
lally. He was lo have seen Kim again, but had
Mr. Heister wished to know whether any geo-
dcman to whom Whitney had made proposals
Ud made a communication to the Executive
about it.
A resolution was thou passed for directing the
SergeaQt-at-Arms, by an order from the Spbakeh.
elude Randall. It was objected, that he was al-
ready in custody of the City Marshal.
Mr. VEifABLE doubted whether an order from
the Speaker of the House would have the effect
to recover him from the custody of that magis-
Iiale. He likewise wished that a more particular
description of Whitney could be given to the
Sergeaat-at-Arms. In the courseofsoiacconvcr-
i^iion. It appeared that the House were not ac-
quainted with the Christian names either of Ran-
dall or Whitney.
Mr. SwANWiuK was of opinion (hat Randall
should also be included in the warrant, as he
might tell something which would cast light on
the share of Whitney in this transaction.
Some debate ensued on the privileges of the
House, and how far they were warranted lo ap-
prehend Randall.
Mr. W. Smith said, that there was yet no offi-
cial notLce of his being apprehended ; he there-
fore wished the warrant to run against him. If
the Sergeanl-ai-Arms returned for an answer, that
he was already in custody, then the House mis;hl
discuss the propriety of interfering with the office
of the ciril magislmlc.
Mr. Sedgwick had been informed by one of the
Doirkeepers of his having seen Randall in cus>
tody. He implicitly believed the intelligence to
Mr. Madison said, that since Randall was al-
ready in custody, he did not perceive the neces.sity
for iuuing the writ against him in.stantly. It was
a Dew case; and he would give his vote with
more satisfaction if he was permitted to wait till
to-raorrow.
Mr. LiviNOSTON considered the offence as hail-
able. By this m^ans Randall mi^ht in the in-
ifrim escape. This would cast a serious reflection
on the House. He advised to proceed immedi-
itely. The resolution to this effect was put, and
carried.
Tuesday, December 29.
CA8B OF RANDALL AND WHrFNEY.
A return was made by Mr. Joseph Wiieaton,
S'.Tgeanl-at-Arms to the House of Representa-
tives. Mr. Whea-Ton stated that, agreeably loibe
urdLT fMia the Speaker, he had tak>?n into cus-
lody Che bodies of Robert Randall and Charles
Whitney, and kept them at the disposal of the
4th Con.— 7
Mr. W. Smith mored, that a Committee of
Privileges, consisting of seven members, should
be appointed, and instructed to consider and re-
port with respect to the proper mode of proceed-
ing in thii case as to Robert Randall, aa;l that the
said committee shall have leave to sit immedi-
It was likewise moved that the name of Charles
Whitney should be comprehended in the resolu-
tion, because he also was taken into custody. The
resolution, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. Bald-
win, Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Murray, Mr. Coit, Mr.
GiLBB, Mr, LiviNoaTOB, and Mr. Goodbde, were
named for a
INDIAN TRADING HOUSES.
Mr. Parker made a report from the C'
appointed lo prepare and bring in a bill for es-
tablishing iraaiag houses with the Indians. Mr.
Parkeh moved tliat it should be referred lo a
Committee of the Whole House, and recemmended
an early day, because he btlieved the present pro-
visions expire about the end of ibis year. The
bill was referred lo a Committee of the Whole
House on Thuraday next.
SURVEY OF THE SOUTHERN COAST.
The report of the special committee on the pe-
tition of Parker, Hopkins, and Meers, was nei>
taken up and read. Mr. Harrison moved that
it should be referred to a Committee of the Whole
House on Thursday next.
Mr. Bourne observed, thai it would be proper to
hare the report printed for the use of members;
and that conaeqnenliy Thursday would he too
early a day. On this, the consideration of the re-
port W3.1 postponed till Friday.
THE TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
A letter was then delivered to the Speaeeb,
enclosing a petition, subscribed by two hundred
and forty inhabitants of Bennington, in the State
of Vermont, which he was requested by the letter
to communicate to the House. The Mibiect of
this petition was the late Treaty with Britain,
which the subscribers censure in severe terms.
They state that they now look up exclusively to
ihe House of Representatives, as tbe guardians of
the public peace, welfare, and prosperity. . They
considered the House a.s more immediately con-
cerned than any other branch ot Government, in
the interest of the United Stales. The petitioners
were apprehensive of boing involved in European
Klitics, and in a contest with the magnanimous
:puhlic of France. They cuumcraled many ar-.
tides of the Treaty, which they regarded as ob-
jectionable. Among others, tney sj>ecified the
arbitrary deBnition of piracy, and the interference,
by various clause.? of the Treaty, wilh the Legis-
lative power of Congress ; an interference which
they dreaded, as tending to overturn and effect a
total change in our present happy Couttitution.
Mr. Cooper wished to have the names of the
subscribers read over by the Clerk, that he mi^ht
know whelber every one of them could subscribe
his name, and whether some of them signed only
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R.]
Out of Randall and ffUtney.
tDccBMBBR, 1795.
bfinaiki. ThepeCition wurerenedto titeCom-
nittee of the Wiole House uo the state of the
Union.
Mi. VEHiBLEgtmmediBtely after, presented two
other petitioaa oq the lame topic, and after the
same teoor, from certain citizens of the Stale of
Virginia. They were referred to the same com-
EXCISE DUTIES ON SNUFF.
Mr.MnBLGNBEaa presented a petition from Mr
Stimble, a snuff maker, in or near Philadelphia.
He stated the oppressive and destructive conse-
qaencesof the excise upon snuff. Besides which,
tne late heavy rains, in the end of last Bammei,
lud swept away bis mill, and a Urge gOftDtity of
manufactured snuff. His mill, for which he paid
a large annual sum (t560) of excise, had stood idle
for a considerable time, and the petition pointed
out, in atroDff terms, the hardship of (Hying an ei<
else upon a neap of ruins. Referred to the Com-
mittee on Commerce and Manufactures.
APPROPRIATIONS FOB 1796.
The House, on moti<m of Mr. SenawToB, then
went into a Committee of the Whole, on the re-
port from the Committee of Wars and Means.
The resolution reported was as follows :
This resolution being read, Mr. Sedowick
moved that the Committee should consent to it,
and rise ; which they did. The Committee rose,
and reported progress. The House agreed, and
die report was recommitted to the Committee of
Ways and Means, to prepare and bring in a b
this effect.
Union r Vide, Proceediogs of Thursday, Decem-
berl7.]
The resolution as (o enforcing the existing ope-
uiions for the discharge of the Public Debt was
read, agreed to, and referred to the Cotntuittee of
Ways and Means.
The resolution respecting the Mini was referred
to a committee. of three members.
It was then moved that the Committee of the
Whole should be discharged from further consider-
ation of the Letter from the Secretary of Slate,
and the other communications by him formerly
stated on this head, that they migot be referred to
the above commitlee. Boln these motions were
* The resolution as to the Naval Department was
then read, and referred to a committee of five
members. On motion, by Mr- Pabkeb, the letter
on this head, from the Secretary of War, and the
papers that accompanied it, were referred to the
same committee.
CABE OP RANDALL AND WHITNEY.
Mr. B&ti>wtn brought in a report from the Com-
mittee of Privileges. It was, in substance, that
Robert Randall and Charles Whitney should be
' brought to the bar of the House, and interrogated
by the Speakeb, touching the information lod^^
against them, on written ioterrogatortes. which,
with the answers, were to be entered on the Jour-
nals of the Hoi)se ; and that then, every additional
question proposed by members should be reduced
to writing, and puL on motion, by (he Sfcakeb.
Thereafter, if any turCher measures were thought
necessary, that Iney be proceeded in by a com-
mittee, to be appointed for that purpose. The
report was agreea to by the House.
Mr. HiAFER next moved a resolution, that the
two prisoners shall be brought to the bar of the
House to-morrow at 13 o'clock ;, and, in the meati
time, that the Committee of Privileges be ordered
to prepare interrogatories to be put lo them. He
feared that time would be lost, if the prisoners
were, this day, brought before the House.
Mr. Blodht was against the delay, for which
he stated several reasons. He insisted that, at
least, all intermediaEe communication between the
prisoners should be prevented.
Mr. Sgoowick recommended avoiding precipi-
tation. He thought it better to delay the exanu-
natioo till to-morrow.
Mr. W. Smith said, that it was usual for mat-
ters touching privilege to be determined immedi'
ately. From what was already known, he be-
lieved that the Speaker was sumcienlly informed
to>put the reqiusiie queries. He wisbra Randall
and Whitney to be directly brought lo the bar.
Mr. Havenb had been applied to by Randall.
He did not mention this circumstance yesterday,
because so many other gentlemen had spoken in
that way, that he fell himself unwilling to encroach
on the time of the House. He was ready to cotn-
municHte the particulars, when necessary. The
proposals made to him were, in sum aud substance,
the same with those communicated yesterday.
Mr. Harper argued strongly against being in
haste. The culprits were felTow-citizeDs, and en-
titled to time. It was alleged as an usual practice,
to decide instantly on ques'ions of privilege. It
might be so, and perhap^^ this custom was not the
more commendable for that. He thought that
there was scarcely lime before to-morrow, to pre-
Sare the necessary interrogatories. He was for
claying till to-morrow, but would cheerfully ac-
quiesce m the vote of the House.
Mi. Sedowick, in answer to the precedenl urged
by his friend from South Carolina, [Mr. Wm.
Smitb.] observed, that the promptitude to decide
questions of privilege arose, very likely, from the
impulse of passion every appearance of which
ought to be avoidea.
Mr. Nicholas understood the end of this affair
to be, exculpating the members, and satisfying the
public min^ . He was for beginning the eiamiaa-
tioD immediately, without giving the prisoners
time to prepare answers.
Mr. HARpERwiibdrewhis motion, to make room
for one brought forward by Mr. Blocnt, which
was for eiamining the prisoners immediately.
Mr. H. did not recede from bis original opinion,
but by taking the sense of the House on Mr. B.'s
motion, he would be directed as to his own.
.dbyGoogle
173!
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
. 174
DiCEMHB, 1795.]
Cat) of RandaU aiut WAOfMy.
[H. OP R.
The Honse agreed to briag in RamUll iB>medi-
aielf . In the mean time, a member observed that
(bere wna a material omiHton in the JourDal of
/eslerday, as read thia day hy the Clerk. It bad
stated the attempt to corrupt members, but
unprepued. What if herefusea toi
Confataion amooDts, in this case,
He was Tor giBUtiag iDdulgence.
Mr. Venablb felt as much
B for the
that Raadall had pretended thirty or forty of ihem
to be eaiaed already. This theeeotteman thought
si crimioal part of the charge. He there-
fore moved for an ameodmeut of the Journal.
This motioQ produced a long and desultory
debate.
The Sfeakes had never known an instance
of this sort, after the Journal was, aa in the prea-
eat case, read over and already agreed to. He did
not think that it coold be done at all, luless the
Hoiue were unanimous in iL
Mr. Th&tober said, that, as there was not any
nilr on the subject, he would be for adhering to
the old practice, and not be for altering the Jour-
nals.
Several gentlemen now spoke. Mr. Jerbhiah
^vrrn saw no necessity for an amendment in the
iournals at all. The additions proposed may be
enlered on the Journals of this day, and make a
part of ii } and, if it is needful, addtiioas may be
made, in this way, for tea days to come. It was
not like an indictiocnt, which must be found by
liie jury all at one time.
lundall was now brought in. by Mr. Wheitoh,
3ergeant-at-Arms, and the City Marshal. That
pajt of the Journals which refers to his couduot
was read to him.
The UpCAKm then interrc^.ii3d tlie prisoner,
whether these cfaargei were true or false ? Raa-
dill replied that be was not [H-eparrd to answer.
He hoped that time would be given him. The
Speaker asked what time he wanted 7 He could
not positively tell ; perhaps till the day afler to-
morrow.
Mr. W. Smith was disposed to give him the
liote required.
Mr. B1.0CNT said, that he felt for his own dig-
nity asa member of the House, and for the dignity
ff the House. To suffer the prisoner to go away
from the bar till he had said guilty, or not guilty,
when thirty or forty members are positively
charged with such eooduct and we suEEer the cal'-
prit (o withdraw, without obliging him. to explain,
Till eicite public suspicion that guilt is here.
Ktndail was then ordered to withdraw, till the
discussion stiaald be over.
Mr. Rdtbbbpord was for making him say yes
or DO, directly, as to the guilt. Il he wants to
lure time for pleading any thing in mitigation of
hii punishment, that is a quite different affair.
Bui the honor of the House was concerned in
uiaking him give an immediate answer to the
queries now put.
Mr. HiLLROoaB was for bringing Ran ilall for-
ward directly. He ought not to be allowed time
10 think of an anvwer.
Mr. Haipbb felt as much as any man for the
d<;ni[)r of the House, but this would not induce
KiiQ lo proceed in a hurry. Mr. H. enlarged on
iht dauber of iudulgiug passion on (hissubjeet. it
would be wrong to forae the pciaoner to anawer
himself abore snspteion, and the Houie above iL
He would not wish to trample on the rights of an
individual. He saw do danger that could arise to
the House from a short delay. He referred to
what Mr. Hasfbr had said about the hardship of
making any man convict himself.
Mi. Olaibobnb was also against hurrying the
prisoner. .He recommended that ctwlness and
moderation should distinguish the proceedii^ of
the House.
The qnestioB was then put, whether the pris-
oner should be obliged to answer immediately.
Ayea i2, noes 48.
It was then moved, by Mr. W. Smith, that he
should be allowed till twelve o'clock, to-morrow.
Mr. Blount proposed the yeas and nays on the
latter question. A member observed that tbe^
should talker have been put on the one immedi-
ately preceding. The motion was supported only
by four or five members. A fifth part of the
House are requisite for calling the yess and nays.
Mr. Blodnt then laid on the table a long reso-
lutifM. It was, in substance, that before Randall
was recomjuitied, he should be interrogated as to
who were the thirty or forty members that had
been gained to the scheme.
Mr. Habpbr thought it extraordinary to bring a
culprit before the House for contempt of it, and
then encourage him to criminate members. He
should ever pr>>tes( against persons being brought
to the bar for that purpose. He therefore moved
to strike out from the resolntion proposed by Mr.
Blodnt, the wordii "And if you did. who are
'the members whom you considered as sosecured;
'and what were yonr reasons for thinking them so
' secured T' This was the last clause ofan inter-
rogatory which Mr. Blouht proposed putting to
Randall.
Mr. Blount declared that he had never meant
bringing an accuser to the bar, or propoandiug a
question that should bring forth an accusation.
Mr. Harpeb replied.
Mr. Blount then modified his resolution, by
striking oat (he exceptionable wordsj to whicn
Mr. Habpeb then agreed.
Mr.MuRHAVcalled upon gentlemen by their seA-
sibiiity to personal dignity, and the character of the
House, to arrest the motion. Its tendency certainly
was to place the honor of the House, or of a very
great part of it, in the power of a man of whose
profligacy of priociple there could now be no
doubt. Will you, he observed, permit, nay, invite
him. whom you arraign at the bar of this House,
lo be a public accuser! Will you adopt a charge
against nim, which is in its naiure an imputation
that however lightly and wickedly made, will im-
plicate perhaps innocent men? These men, to
resr.ue tlieir own repntationa, will be obliged to
risk their characters, on the weight of their vera-
city, by denying this man's charge in the face of
a worU but too prone to suqveet. By this motioD,
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
176
R.|
Cote of RandtUl and Whitney.
[December, 1795.
Raodall's «sieilioD to the geotleman from Vir-
gioia, [Mr. Giles,] th« only member who has
meniioaed it, in tci ae alleeed Hgainst Randall as
BD oSeuce. That RaDdalfsaid to the ^DtlemBn
that (here were thirty or forty members secured,
he had ao doubt ; bat he beliered the fact to be
that Randall was both deceived himself and at-
tempted lo deceive the gentleman. Why, said Mr.
M., the fellow told me that thoNe thirty members
were secured. Mr. M. had not thought proper to
state that circumstance, because he did not so
much consider it as a fact material to the detec-
tion of Randall's guilt, as it was one. which, if
mentioDed, might possibly afford to malice ao op-
porlUDily of affixing a stigma to any thirty or
forty names at which pertonal enmity might
5t>tnt. No public good could result from such a
isclosure; for the assertion of snch a man ai
Randall could not, among men of honor, be deem-
ed a sufficient ground of suspicion ; and yet the
malice of the world, or the rancor of p< '
enemies, might attach suspicion and infamy to
almost the whole Houiie. from the indefinitet
of the charge. When Randall informed him,
Thursday night, thai there were thirty members
who would support his measures, he had felt in
the very conduct which he then was himself pur-
suing to detect Randall, to arrest his scheme, a
principle of candor towards others, which taught
him that other eenllemen to whom Randall had
communicated his scheme confidentially, were
probablv determined as bonestlv as himself to
crush the infamous plot against the honor of the
House. He knew that he who would be wicked
enough to attempt seduction, might be weak
enough to use this intelligence artfully, for the
pnrpaie of Irading him the more readily to ac-
cept terms of infamy; because the object was
painted as easily attainable, and thai Randall
might wish to diminish all qualms, by exhibiting
a pretended group of accomplices whose company
would at least diminish the appearance of singu-
larity. I entertained, said Mr. M., no suspicion
of any man— I knew Randall to he a corrupt man
from his ofiers to myself— 1 therefore placed all
his inielligence to the score of flimsy art : I knew
that such a man was not to be fully believed,
where his interest was to magnify his success.
I drew favorable auspices with respect to the corps
to which I belong, from another piece of intelli-
gence of his, which was, that he communicated
to some members, one of whom he had named,
and whom I knew to be a man of honor, in what
he called the general vay. This general wav
was a display of the sounder part oi his scheme
merely, and not the corrupt ; con-iisling in de-
veloping the advantages which would result to
the'Union in the disposal of their lands, provided
the harmony of the Indians could be secured. In
this view of his plan he gave the subject an alti-
tude far from unimposiog ; and I conceived that,
as in nronortion lo the numbers engaged confi-
dentially he must know that the hazard of detec-
tion increased, he would not communicate the
corrupt view as long as he fonnd the more honest
part of the policy might appear to strike any gen-
tleman as a measure useful to his country ; 1 there-
fore did not believe Randall, in the sense he evi-
dently intended; therefore, sir, I did not feel myself
at liberty to mention the assertion which I conceiv-
ed to be unavailing as a eircumstance neces.sary to
the example I wished to make, but which, if com-
municatea, 1 thought mi^ht cast a atain. by the
mystery that enveloped it, upon a body whose
character ought to be held sacred to the confi-
dence of the country. My duty was lo bring Ran-
dall's attempt to corrupt unequivocally into light,
not by repeating all the arts which he excileu to
corrupt ; nor by eibibiting them in a way that
might wound the feelings of men of honor, who,
if charged even personally by Randall, would
have no refuge from odium but in their charac-
ters and counter-assertion ; this, though always
conclusive with those who personally know them,
is not a protection to minds of sensibility a^nst
the stings of calumny. The voice of fame is not
composed from the voice of men of honor.
It was, he said, in the spirit of such reflections,
that he and the genlteman with whom he bad
concerted the mode and lime of disclosure [Mr.
W. SmithJ bad determiiied to trust rather lo the
as yet unstained honor of the House, than to the
loose declarations of Randall ; and therefore had
resolved on Friday morning to make the disclo-
sure before, that some gentleman, innocent of the
corrupt scheme, and acquainted with the sounder
part of the plan onlv, might hare, cause to blush
at having presentea a memorial which it would
be their duty to defeat and to cover with infamy-
If this charge is exhibited against Randall he will
confess or deny it : if he confesses it, and in the
disposition that of^en accompanies detected guilt,
should name particular gentlemen, though their
connter<aGsertion would completely, in his own
mind, outweigh the charge of a corrupt and pro-
fligate accuser like Randall, yet would every man
of delicacy have cause to regret that merely for
the purpose of adding to the chargt^ against a
man proved 10 be wicked, a stain had glanced
from nim upon a name innocent and honorable.
Let gentlemen act with magnanimity upon this
.sion. Let them resist a motion, which, how-
purely concrived, may eventually wound ho-
lamc. without detectingguilt, Mr. M. solemnly
;ved that Randall's assertion was either false
totally,or true only as it respected those who bad
listened lo him, for the purpose of making an ex-
ample, or those to whom he had spoken in what
he called the general way. If Randall denied this
charge, it would rest on the assertion of tbegeo-
tleman from Virginia, but could not affect mem-
bers farther, than as the measureof inquiry seemed
imply suspicion. He and the genlleman from
South Carolina had both acted upon the pre-
sumption of innocence in members, and they had
resolved on the timely disclosure yesterday, lest
even one member, however innocent, miglit be
placed in a painful situation by presenting the me-
morial: If Randal! is charged with this as an
oSence, he verily believed the House betrayed its
own honor to the malice of the world ; he would
therefore vote decidedly against it.
.dbyGOQgle
fflSTOKT OP CONGRESS.
December, 179S.]
Ca»e of Randall tmd tminey.
CH.0
Mr. M., in the coarse of his speech, added se-
veral other obaerrations. He did not doubt that
in BTerr district on the Continent thirty favorites
would be pointed out, whom the people in that
quarter, or at least some among them, would be
disposed to consi^ to infiiiny. and perhaps there
was not one district in the Union where the same
thirty members would be named. It would he
said, "Sir, they are not named, but I know who
are the men." So rapid were the communications
of the press, so keen the appetite for scandal, that
when ODce the story was circulated, it mignt be
impossible ever to gel rid of it.
Mr. Giles replied. He was in favor of the mo-
tion of Mr. Blount. He said it was evident, /rom
the way in which this whole communication had
been brought forwaid, that th«re had been no pre-
vious correspondence between Mr. Mdrray and
himself. They had felt differently. Mr. Giles
had informed the Speaker of the House. Mr.
HrRRAT and his friend [Mr. W. Smith] had com-
municated the afiair to (he PReainBBT—a measure
of which, as it struck Mr. Giles, he did not dis-
tinctly perceive the propriety. Mr. Giles had
considered it as best to wail iu silence, til! the pe-
tition of Randall should come forward. Mr. Mur-
BAT had suggested a variety of delicate motive!
for breaking the matter to the House, lest the
petition should come forward, and hurt the feel-
ings of an innocent and unsuspecting member
Mr. Giles did not wish to diminish the credit
fally due to the gentleman in this respect. He
kimseir had felt somewhat difierently. He had
Mted differently.
Mr. HiLLROcsE was convinced that there was
not a gentleman in the House, whose character
rested on so slender a foundation, as to be affected
by any thing that this man could say. He felt
no anxiety Tor the reputation of the House, for
he knew that it was not in the smallest danger.
The resolution went merely to make Randall con-
fess that he had said so and so. It implied nothing
lo affect members. A man covered with infamy
making such charses could not expect credit, or
obtain It from anybody. Mr. Hillhodse was, for
these reasons, in favor of the resolution for inter-
roimtiDg Raodall.
The resolution was now read, as follows :
"Xaohtd, That it be made a charge sgsinat the«wd
RobcR Sand&ll, that he dedared lo a membw of this
Houae, that a noniber coiudating of not law than thirty
nemben of thii Hoiuc. had engaged to support his ma-
Raadall was then brought to the bar. The re-
wlntion was read to him, and he was informed
(hat he must answer it to-marrow,ai 12 o'clock.
A motion for adjourning was then made. Ayes
26; so it was lost.
I> was next moved and agreed, that Whitney
should be brought to the bar. The Speaker then
»id, b this the priiioner? Answered, yes. What
is your name 1 Charlea Whitney. What is your
niual place of residence 7 Vermont. What are
yoa? I was bred to the farming business. Do
m know one Robert Randall? Yes. The Clerk
will read to yon the charge that has occasioned
your being brought here. The charge, as stated
in the Journal of the House, was then read to the
prisoner. He was next interrogated by the Speak-
ER,as follows: Are yon guilty, or not guilty ? Not
raitty. Are you ready to speak in your defence 1
am ready lo tell every thing. Are you prepared
to do so just now? Yes. Whitney then stated
that he was connected with Raudall in a plan for
the purchase of eighteen or twenty millions of acres
of land, lying between the Lakes Erie, Huron, and
anUMichi^n. He had coowio town on the design
of presenting a petition to Congress, bnt had no
knowledge of any improper kind of applications.
Randall had several times ealled upon him at hia
lodgings, at the Green Tree, in North Fourth
street. He considered the scoeme to be of pro-
bable advantage, and a handsome thing to the
United States as well as to the prisoner himself,
who repeatedly observed that he would not have
engaged in it, but with a view partly to his own
interest. He had wished to engage influential
characters in the business. He was then asked
what associates he had. He answered, Colonel
Pepune and Mr. Jones, of the State of Massschn-
setts; and Mr. Ebenezer Allen, of Vermont. He
also, upon a query from the Speaker, mentioned
the name of another person, which was not dis-
tinctly heard. He was asked if the parmers meant
to divide the land into Ibrty shares. He answered
forty-one; bnt this was only in speculation. Thw
had only a rough idea of the extent of the land,
which was inhabited bv the Wyandois, and waa
of a very good soil. Tne land was to be divided
among the proprietors. The prisoner knew, in
general, from Randall, that be called on hb.
Smith, and other members; but was not privy to,
nor suspected any unbecoming overtures. He was
then asKed the names of the associates at Detroit.
He mentioned Mr. Erskine, Mr. Robertson, Mr.
Innes, Mr. Fattison. and Mr. Erskine, junior. He
said that some of. them were Indian traders, to a
iderable extent. He had called at Mr. BnoK'a,
of Vermont, (a member of the House,) as he was
riding by his house. He knew him to be a gen-
tleman of character, whose name would add cre-
dit to the business. He had told him that there
several other persons intending to he COO-
cemed, and that, if it was consistent with hia
situation as a member i^ Congress, he would be
glad to have him engaged^ but at tne same time
carefully noticed that this proposal was condi-
tionatly made, and only if it was proper. He was
asked what Mr. Erskine was. He is called Judee
but whether he is now a Judge, or only
Erskin
_ . . ._ other part of the country, at a
former period, the prisoner cannot tell. You say
that you came to Philadelphia about a month ago.
Why were you ao long in presenting your peti-
tion 1 He had a bad cold, and had been sick, and
wanted to make a persona! explanation to the
members before bringing the affair before the
House. Have you got any new associates in this
eity 1 None. Mr. Livikobton then propawd a
question, Whether any of the shares had been left
unappropriated by yonraasociates and yiiu? An-
.yGoogle
iW
HISTORY OF C0NGBES8.
H- OF B.]
Ckue iff jRandaa and Whttnty.
[Dboehbeb, 1795.
•w«T : It wu at his own option to dispose of
■hares as be pleased. He was asked if he could
produce any written aKreemeDt between himself
and his associates. He believed tbal he could,
and that it would do him no harm to do so. It
was at the Oreen Tree. But, as a matter of can-
dor, he requested time to consider whether the
production of it conld hurt him or not. Thisended
the examiDation.
Blr. W. Smith then made a motion, consisting
of three points, that Whitney thould be ordered
to re-am>ear at the bar, at twelre o'clock, tomor-
row; U^t he should be ordered to produce the
bond ; and that, till to-morrow, he should be te-
nanded to the custody of the City Mardial. It
was likewise recommended that, till to-morrow,
the two prisoners be kept in separate apartmeots.
Ur. GooDBUB requested that Whitney might
be <sdered to withdraw; which was donerHe
then related that the [nisoner had made an appli-
cation to him at different times. Mr. Qoodude
Udd him that he knew very little of the Western
country ; he had always lived on the aeaeoast,
and land jobbuoK was quite out of his line. Whit-
ney did not make any corrupt proposals to him.
He believed that it was because he was very
avene to wafting time in speaking at all on the
matter.
lit. Sbdowick said that, as no direct charge of
eonvMion had been made against Whitney, he
apprencoded it would be improper to detain him
as a priaoner. It might be considered as a wanton
act 01 arbitrary power.
Mr. Buck then rose, and said that he had not
Iesterday told the whole of what passed between
im and Whitnev. Mr. Brca bad received offers
plain enoQgh to be understood. He might either
Mve land, or money in lieu of iL
Ur. SanowicK said, that he had now no oppo-
tkion to the resolutions ; which were carried.
Mr. Haapaa then laid on the table a tesolatkm
i^tive to the duties on export;, which was read ;
And the House then adjourned.
Wbdiibsi>at, December 30.
John Paob, from Virginia, appeared, was qua-
lified, aud took his seat
CASE OP RANDALL AND WHITNEY.
Mr. W, Smith moved an amendment of the
Journal to this effect, that the said Charles Whit-
ney had made overtures to Mr. Bnca, to this
'Jiurpose, that he should have a share in the knds
to be purchased, or in money.
Mr. Nicholas objected to the motion. The
mding of the Journal was eaUed for. It was
Mr, Sedowick said, that the original charge
against the man was complete and full. He
Oiought the amendment unnecessary.
A petition was then preeented from Randall re-
' tiis defence, and with
Mr. W. Smith moved that the prayer of the
petition should be eranted, and that the further
examination should be referred to a select corn-
Mr. HiLLHOOBE had no objection to granting
counsel, I am willing, said ne^ that every man
shall make the best defence which he can. But
bring him before us. Were I to decide on the
criminality, 1 would wish to hear the evidence-
Mr. Williams observed, that as it had been
said that a number of members were implicated
in the business, he conceived that &11 further pro-
ceedings should be before the whole House. It
was true, it might require more time ; but the
honor and dignity of the Legislature is concerned
in giving the greatest publicity to their proceed-
ings.
Mr. SwANWicK 'objected to a reference to a
select committee. Tlie attempt is the first of the
kind thai ba" ever been made against the mem-
bers of the Legislature of the United States; and,
therefore, our proceedings cannot be too public,
and ought to be attended with the utmost so-
lemnity.
Mr. Bradbcbv proposed a division of the aue»-
tion, and that the sense of the House should be
first taken on that part relative to allowing him
counsel.
Mr. KiTOHELL objected to allowing counsel;
he stated tbe difficulties and delays wEich would
be the result of allowing counsel. The conse-
quences he feared wouU be^ that an opening
would be made for an imputation on tbe honor in
the House. He thonght the duty of the House
was plain, and that they ought mimediately to
proceed to an examination of the prisoner.
Mr. LiviBoaTON objected to both parts of the
motion in tbepresent stage of the business. When
the interrogatories are put, and the answers re-
ceived, it will then be time to determine on the
propriety of granting counsel. He was equally
opposed to B reference to a select committee until
a more complete examination of the business.
Mr. Smith withdrew his motion, so far as it re-
lates to a reference to a select committee.
Mr. Baldwin said, that the motion for a refer-
ence to a select committee, if rejected, would be
to counteract the report of the Committee of Pri-
vileges, which has already been adopted by the
House. Mr. B. entered into a consideration of
the ineonvenienees attending tbe discussion of
complicated facta by so Urge a body as the Honae.
He instanced several precedents to show that
Congress bad almost in every case proceeded by
select committees. Mr, B. added, that if further
satisfaction was wanted by any member, be anp-
posed it proper that the prisoner should be further
interrogated.
Mr. SEnowicK was in favor of allowing coun-
sel. He insisted that it was not merely a privi-
lege, but a right of every citizen of the United
States, He said that tbe circumstance of the
House being both accuser and judge, afforded
very great additional reason why he should b«
allowed counsel. Mr. S. cited tbe Constitution
to show tbe right of the prisoner (o connael.
.dbyGOQgle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
182
Decehbeh, 1795.]
Caae of RandaU and WMtnet/.
[H.orR.
Mr. Madibon wrs in bror of allowing c
set. He thooghc the motioa would stand belter
if it went to allow him to answer the interroga'
lories by the adTioe of coansel.
Mr. Nicholas supported the affirmative of the
motion. He thought it of conseqaence thai every
indulgenre used in courts of law, so far as they
are anplieable to the present case, should be al-
lowed.
Mr. Mdbrat said, that he was decidedly _._
the pMyer of the petition itself^ rather than far
tny amendment of the proposition before the
House. He wished the prisoner to have the ad-
vantage of all the ingetiuity of all the counsel he
chose to employ. He thought Randall entitled
certaioly to the aid of counsel, as well on his ex-
amination as on his defence : and he believed
that the dignity of the House, as well a>
the rights of the offender, would be best con-
sulted by permitting him to have every advan-
tage. As he was one of those who disclosed the
Eisoner'a crime, so he felt himself peculiarly
und to see that every indulgence consistent with
the justice which gentlemen owed themselves,
should be extended to him. He fell ihst ibe grant
of the prayer would be a particular indulgence tt
himself.
Mr. Habfeh objected to the interference of thi
House in respect to counsel. It appealed to him
that the prisoner had a right to employ what
counsel he pleased ; and he may answer the
tern^atoiies of the House by the advice of
or more lawyers, standibgai his side, as any other
citizen might stand. He suspected, however, that
the prioouer meant, by counsel, to oring a lawyer
into the House to plead his cause. If this was
the ease, he thoogbt the prayer of the petitiooei
was improper.
Mr. W. SuiTH was very ready to allow the
prisoner counsel for bis defence, but, in so doing, he
wished ifto be understood, not as a matter of right
trnt of favor. He was apprehensive that gentlemen
in proceeding from one step to another, wcnld at
last reason away the privileges of the IJouse al-
ti^elber. His friend from Massachusetts [Mr.
Sedgwick] had quoted the clau&e of the Coosti-
toiioD which gave a right to have counsel in all
Iriab for crimes: but it did not apply to this case,
any more than Ine clause which immediately fol-
lowed it,dec1aring that alllrials for crimesshould be
by ajutvof the vicinage, and afler presentment by
agrand jnry. The present inquiry was of a^pecial
and peculiar natorcL ivsnltiog from the rights and
privileges which belonged to every Legislative in-
iiituEion, and without which such institution
could not exist. As every jurisdiction had cer-
tain powers necessary for its preservation, so the
Legislature possessed certain privileges incident
to Its nature, and essential for its very existence.
This is called in England the parliamentary law ;
■ndaslrom that laware derived the usages and pro-
ceedings of the several State Legislatures, so will
the proeeedinga of this House be generally guided
[■fine lone-established usages of the State Legis-
Ulures. There would be a manifest absurdity in
coBformiug the proceedings in this cue to the or-
' dinary proceedings at law in jnry trials, for the
House, instead of being able to protect itself,
would be alti^ether dependent on the other
branches of the Government, and in every case
of aggression be obliged to send the offenders to
the ciri) magistrate. If there was any wei^t in
such reasoning as had been heard, then the Hotise
would have to tread back all the unconstitutional
steps they had been taking, and (o discharge,
without delay, both the prisoners, for the arrest
by the 8ergeant-at-Arms, under the Bpeaebu's
vrarrant, was only justifiable on the ground he
had mentioned, namely, the inherent and indis-
pensable power of self-preservation. That the
House possessed power to arrest had not been de-
nied but the power of commitmeut was incident
to that of arrest, and if it possessed both thesa
high powers, it must of consequence possess the
necessary incident of trial or inquiry, in regriat-
ing which the House was only to be governed by
its own wisdom and discretion. On this occa-
sion Mr. S. said he felt, as he trusted every mem-
ber did, a proper respect for the rights of individ-
uals brougbl to the bar, as well as for those of the
House, and he hoped that their conduct would be
marked with discretion and temper ; bnt, willing
lied d:
, to pass unanswered. This wasthe Srst it
since the orffanization of this Qoveru-
which il had been found necessary tote-
of the House should stand unimpaired. The Im-
Sortance of the subject would be his apology for
eviating a little from the question wfore the
House. He then remarked, on the assertion of
his colleague, [Mr. Harfbr,] that "there was no
rule of the House which prevented the prisoner
being accompanied to the bar by half a dozen law-
fers, who might all prompt him in his replies."
fany person, said Mr. S., whether lawyer or not,
should intrude himself to furnish answers for the
prisoner to the interrogatories put by the Speaker,
h person would be undoubtedly euilty of a
ss indecorum, for which he would be liable to
censure of the House. He confessed he saw
necessity for counsel to aid the prisoner in
simply answering whether he was guilty or not ;
if he acknowledged the charges, they would then
decide ou the mode of punisnment ; if he denied
them, then counsel would be very properly allow-
ed to aid him in proving his innocence.^ In the
precedents, he laid, which had come to his know-
ledge, he found the practice to be this: Thepri-
merj on being brought to the bar^ was interro-
gated as to the charges; if he admitted them, h«
was either reprimanded and discharged, or com-
mitted to prison, to abide the further order of the
House, but such imprisonment could not continue
beyond the session; if he denied the charge, then
an inquiry was had before a select commiltea,
who reported the facts to the House. This ap-
peared the proper mode of proceeding, and be
hoped it would be pursued on the present occa-
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
Tarif Dutiea-~Ca»e of HandaU—ForliJicalvmB, f c.
[D,
1795.
sioD. He cOQcluded with ayiiig, that he should
vote for alluwing counsel to assist ibe piisooer in
his de fence.
Mr. Sldgwick moved that the praf er of the pe-
tilioa should be granted, and that Randall be al-
lowed till to-morrow, to be heard at the bar.
The petition was aoain read.
Mr. Chbistie ha<r known Randall for many
years, and nad never heard of any thing against
him before. He had lately been at Detroit, and
Mr, C. believed that be had been injuicd bv keep-
ing bad company. He was not the first man in
the country who had been corrupted by British
influence and British company. He moved that
Randall should be allowed till lo-morrowal twelve
o'clock. This was negatived.
The Speaker then said, that, if agreeable to the
House, he would send for Randall, and inquire
what time he wanted. This was done ; Randall
came in, and asked till Saturday, but as the House
does not sit on Saturday, Friday was appointed.
The hood or agreement between the intended
purchasers of the land was then read. It was
dated at Detroit, the 26th of September last. Al-
len, Whitney, and Randall, were to i^^ve the dis-
posal of 36 shares out of 41.
Mr. MuBRAT informed the House that he had
yesterday morning made a deposition as to the
circumstances of the application to him before a
District Judge, and that he would move for put-
tiiis it on the Journals.
Charles Whitney was then called in ; the in-
formation of Mr. Bock was then read to him. He
denied having made any corrupt overtures. He
was ordered to withdraw.
Mr. MiLLEDOE observed that the proposals to
Mr. BpcE look olace before the session began. It is
admitted that toe utmost which can be done to
the prisoners is confinement till the rising of the
session; if our power does not go beyond the
end, it seems not to extend previous to the be-
giDDine^of the session.
Mr. W. Smith thought this a new question.
He was for referring to a select committee.
One or two resolutions were made and with-
drawn ; at last, on a motion made by Mr. Maoi-
BON, the subject was referred to the Comioitlee
on Privileges, to consider and report to the House
the proper mode of conducting the further inqui-
ry. Adjourned.
Tbdrsdat, December 31.
RicBARD WiHN, from South Carolina, appeared,
was qualified, and took his seat.
TARIFF OP DUTXES.
Mr. Harpeb called up his resolution, laid on
the table some days ago, that the proper officers of
the Treasury Department should be ordered to
make out a tariff of duties, and goods imported,
and the respective amount of the duty on each ar-
ticle, in the years 1793 and 1794 with a statement
<w the eippnseB of collection. Mr. H. thought it
of consequence for the House to know precisely
the effect of their operations in imposing duties.
On some articles it might be found expedient to
reduce, and on others to augment the burden.
Mr. Gallatin proposed that the resolution
should be prtaicd,as it was of considerable leuf^th,
in order that the members might know exactly its
Mr. Vbhahlb did not entirely comprehend the
object of the re^olutian. He imagined thai a ta-
rio of duties' might Le obtained from the laws
without having recourse to the officers of the
Treasury,
Mr. Harper thought it was not unusual for a
Legislative Assembly to cause the officers of the
Treasury, or other characters of that kind, to se-
lect and combine materials for their own informa-
The resolution was referred to a Committee of
the Whole House, and made the order of the day
for Monday next.
r CASE OF RANDALL.
A letter was read from Robert Randall, address-
ed to the Speaker. He represented that at present
counsel were not to be had, because the Supreme
Court sits till Saturday evening, ai^, till it rises,
all the gentlemen of the bar are pre-engaged.
Sensible of the obligations which be had incurred
already to the indulgence of the House, it was
painful for him to solicit any further delay. The
circumstances of the case made this step neces-
sary. Bui if the House were to grant him a fur-
ther indulgence, he should be prepared with tiis
defence by the earliest part of next week ; and,
at any rate, he should on no account whatever
ask longer time,
Mr. owAnwicK was for granting Randall a de-
lay till Tuesday. To-raorrow was the first day
of the new year, and it was likely, when the
House adjourned, that they mia;ht adjourn till
Monday. On some eiplanation he withdrew his
motion, and Randall's letter was ordered to lie on
the table.
FORTIFICATIONS, MILITARY STORES. Ae.
Mr. Malbone laid on the table a resolution for
appointing a committee to take into consideration
the state of the harbors and fortifications of the
United States, and of the military stores, and
what measures had been taken for procuring pro-
per sites for arsenals. The resolution was talten
up and agreed to, and a committee of three mem-
bers was appointed to inquire and report.
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
Mr. S. Lyman observed, that two years had
elapsed since, upon an estimate then brought for-
ward, a Naval Armament was ordered. As pro-
gress had been made in the business, he wished
that the House should learn how far experience
had proved the estimates just. It was also inter-
esting to know what sums had been expended in
this business. Towards obtaining this information,
he laid on the table a resolution to the following
effect :
** lUaohed, That the Preaident of the United Stite* be
re9U(st«(] to caUM the proper oflicen to lay befora th*
.dbyGoogle
185
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
Decembes, 1795.] Penal Code—Case oj Randail and WkUnty.
HouM k MUenwDt of eipeiue* tliewl; incuned ix Iha
Nivtl AnDUDeDt-"
PENAL CODE.
Mr. LiTiNosTDN, from ihe committee appointed
10 inquire whether aay, and what, alieratiuns may
be nec^sNiry in the penal laws of ibe United
States, laid aa the table a motion from that com-
mittee. This was, thattbe Pbebident should be
requested to obtain for their iaformation a list of
ill the convicts who have been tried under the
present la.ws. with a note of the date of their trial,
the place where the offence was committed, and
ID BccouDt of the punishment inflicted. The
cotnniittee were not able to proceed without in-
formation of this sort to make a basis for their re-
port It was moved to amend the motioo by add-
ing, after the words "criminal offences," "after
Monctton,"as it mi^t bean endless business to
inqaire about offences, where no trial or puniah-
mcDi had ensued. This ameodnient was agreed to.
Mr. Venable did not know of any immediate
connexion between the PsEetoENT and the Fede-
ral Courts. Many convictions miffhl happen in
claeea where records would not easily be come a^
He did not wish to cast obstructions m the way of
the business, bat had mentioned this a* a difficulty
which struck him.
Mr. HiLLHODSE did not see the use of the mo-
tiw. There must be some uniform system of
nishment in erery part of the United States.
lore crimes were committed in one State than
uother, still the punishment would be the same.
Mr. LiviNosTON defended his resolution j which
WIS carried.
Mr. Sedowick then moved that a committee
should, as usual in such cases, be appointed to
Hiit on the PaEsinENT with the resolution. A
coQimillee of two members was accordingly ap-
pointed.
CASE OF RANDALL AND WHITNEY,
Mr. Baldwin, the Chairman of the Committee
of Privileges, reported, in part, on the subjci
the foriber proceedings to be nad in the case of
R. Randall and C. Whitney, in subsUnce
follows :
1. That a further hearing of R. Randall should
be held at the bar; that the information ffiTe~ ' "
members against the said Randall be reduce
writing, signed by the ioformautE respectively,
and entered at large on the Journals ; that the
Q>d information should be read to the prisoner,
tod he be asked by the Hfeaeer what he had to
ny in bis defence. If the prisoner should desire
» produce any parole evidence to exculpate him-
self, the same shall be heard at the bar, and the
Judge of the District of Pennsylvjinia be request-
ed to attend to administer an oath or affirmation
lothe witnesses on the part of the prisoner ; thai
the Speaker shall put all questions to the witnes-
•es. When any debate should arise, tliat the pri-
KDerand his counsel be directed to withdraw;
and, when he has concluded his defence anil
withdrawn, that the sense of the House be taken
on the guilt or innocence of the prisoners, re-
spectivdjf.
Mr. LvMAN wished to know unon what princi-
pie the committee had introduced the Judge into
their report. He could see none. He feared
that they would encroach on the privilegea of the
House. Mr. L. moved to strike out that clause.
The motion was negatived.
Mr. Thatcheb then moved to amend the clause
thus : " Witnesses on behalf of this House and of
the prisoner." Af^er some debate, the motion
was withdrawn.
A'motion was then made to iutc/t the words
"sworn to," after the word ''writings;" referring
to the information already given. by members to
the House.
Mr. W. Smith objected lo this amendment.
He staled a distinction between this examination
suit. He had never heard of
for his own part, cheerfully acquiesce in the reso-
lution adopted by the House. A member might
be liable to be cross^juestioned by the counsel Tor
the prisoner or by himself. We are not here to
proceed by law, but by privilege. Suppose a
member were to be iusnlted by a stranger in the
lobby, would he, on making his complaiut, be ob-
liged lo swear to it 7 Surely not. What is to
become of the privileges of* the House if we go
on as a Gourl of Law f It would be giving them
up. Mr. S., as to himself, was ready to make
oath over again to his deposition before the Judge
of the District.
Mr. MAnisoH was of opinion that no citizen
can be punished without the solemnity of an oath
lo ihe fact. Of consequence it is needful to the
information of members, if the punishment of a
fellow citizen is implicated. Perhaps it may be
urged that members, having taken an oath to sup-
port the Constitution, Ibis supersedes the neces-
sity of an oath in the present case.
Mr. MiJBBAT had his deposition in his hand.
He believed that all the gentlemen who had given
information on this affair would make oath to it.
He imagined that the gentleman trom Virginia
[Mr. OiLEa] had done so already.
Mr. Qallatik thought it reasonable that mem-
bers should be liable to be questioned upon
oath. That there was no precedent for it, had
little weicht. There are many absurdities in the
Law of Nations which gentlemen would not wish
to introduce here.
Mr. Swift was against the members being sub-
ject to this regulation. The case was quite novel
to him. But this was, at first view, his way of
thinking. Suppose that some person in Ihe gal-
lery were lo commit an insult on the House, be-
fore the whole members, would it be necessary
that they should all swear to the offence before
proceeding to punish ill This Mr. 9. regarded as a
paxallel case.
Mr. Thatohgb made a distinction when an of-
fence had been committed in presence of the
whole House, and when committed out of their
view. In the former case, there could not be any
use for evidence being sworn, because the whole
, House had the testimony of their senses. It was
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
M
Ca»e of Rta>da& and Whitney.
[Jahuaby, 1796.
s occurred in an-
other place ; and Mr. T. was cooTinced that the
eha^ on^ht to be sworn to. The passage under
ftTnendment was in these words ; " That it should
be reduced to writing ;" and the dispute was about
adding the words, '-and sworn to." Mr, T., though
for examining the members on oath- as to toe
charge against Randall, was opposed to the amend-
ment as useless, because the members must, in his
opinion, be sworn when Randall is brought to the
bar. The mere declaration of a prosecutor, not
under oaih, and of a defendant in tne same situa-
■tion, are equally exceptionable. A phrase bad
been repeatedly used which Mr. T. did not under-
stand. It was said that a member was entitled
" to stand up in his place" and give information
so and so. With the meaning of this expression
Hr. T. was unacquainted, nor did he know any
law which authorized the imprisonment of a fel-
low-citizen on a merc'charge unsupported bv oai.i.
He did not see the use of the amendment, but he
■was clearly satisfied that members ought to be ex-
amined and sworn touching their accusations, as
-well as any other persons.
Mr. Nicholas was not, in this instance, for de-
parting from the principles of Common Law. In-
stead of supporting, [lie dignity of the House,
about which so much has been spoben, he was
afraid that, by arrogating too much on the side of
privilege, they might lessen ibeir dignity. He
declared, upon his honor, that he thought the gen-
tlemen concerned should, for their own sakes, in-
sist on being cross-examined b^ the prisoner and
bis counsel. To be cross-examined implies no rC'
flection on a witness. The imperfection of hu-
man nature requires such a precaution, and were
Mr. N. a party, be would insist on being cross-ex-
amined. The proposed amendment would nar-
row the business too much. It would be better
to lay it aside, and let the members be, as above
proposed, subject to cross-examination from the
prisoner.
Mr. Madison said, that when Randall came to
the bar he would possibly save all this trouble, by
confessing his ffuilt, and casting himself on the
mercy oflhe House. He mentioned an anecdote
(rf a Judge who had been publicly insulted. He
informed his brethren of tne Bench, and, on his
complaint, the offender was apprehended. When
he was brought before the Court the oath was ad-
ministered to the Judge. Mr. M. related this
story to show the propriety of every accusation
bein^ sworn to, whatever may be the rant or si-
tuation of the accuser.
The motion for amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. Sedqwick hoped that the members would
be sworn and cross-examined. He was decidedly
of opinion that this ought to be the case.
Mr. MiiBRAV said, that if the House were not
defensible on the doctrine of privilege, where
would an authority be found for what they had
already done? We all know, and we all knew
at the time of committing Randall, that it was
done without any support from law. By carrying
IhU reasoning to its utmost length, the Speaker
might be liable in an action of &mages ; and Mr.
M. would rejoice in the ingenuity of any lawyer
who should discover that all the House were in
the same predicament.
It was then moved to adjourn. The motion
was negatived. Another amendment was pro-
posed, and, after a few words, withdrawn- A
member next proposed that when this House ad-
journ, it shall be till Monday next. Negatived.
The House then, without coming to any decision,
adjourned till U
Pbidat, January 1, 1796.
A letter from Mr. Charles Petit to the Speaker,
was read by the Clerk. Mr. Petit stated that he
was the surviving partner of the late Major Gen-
eral Greene and Mr. John Coxe, in the office of
Q,uarlermBsier General. There was enclosed a
long memorial to the House, 10 which he request-
ed particular attention. The memorial was read,
ana ordered to lie on the table.
CASE OF RANDALL AND WHITrfBY.
The House proceeded In the consideration of
the report of the Committee of Privileges. The
report was read.
Mr. Baldwin remarked, that the discussions of
yesterday had served to convince him more and
more that the plan proposed by the Committee of
Privileges, in their first report, Was the most eli-
gible that conid be adopted; and, he added^ that
the further the House proceeded in the business,
as they did yesterday, the more they would be
convinced of the necessity of referring the ulte-
rior proceedings to a select committee. After the
House have had the parties before them, interro-
gatories have been proposed and answered, the
prisoners do not plead guilty, and yet there ap-
pears to be cause of retaining them in custody.
He was convinced that the select committee -w"
consideration of the report of the Committee of
Privileges should be postponed till Thursday
next. If that was agreed to, he should then move
for a select committee.
Mr. HiLLBOUBG stated a variety of objectiooa
to a reference to a select committee- He sup-
posed it highly improper for the witnesses to be
sworn by a select committee, and that committee
to send for the members and have them sworn
and examined in that private way. However
troublesome and difficult, the House must meet
all the questions and decide them on this floor.
He insisted that the practice of the House did
not justify a reference to a select committee of ■
business of this magnitude. Adverting to the de-
bate of yesterday, relative to the members being
under oath, he said that he was opposed to the
measure. The great and important interests of
the citizens of the United States are committed
to the wisdom of the members of this House, and
they are under a solemn oath for the faithful dis-
charge of their duty ; and, therefore, the declara-
tion of the members, as such, is entitled to full
.dbyGoogle
HISTWrr OF CONGRESS.
jMCkKT, 1796.J
Cat of Bamdda ami FfMAiey.
[H.«fB.
Mt. W. Shith said, ibat the objection* of the
Sentlenutn from Cotmecticat are coatruy lo the
\\\y practice of the House. The iaveitigalion
of f*ct« is constuitly performed by select commit'
tees, Had he mw do force in the lemariis of the
ilemaD relatire lo a private iavestigatioo.
tteaded by their counsel,
lad, as u> the members of the House, the com-
fi
miltee can take no measures which
lioDcd by the House. Mr. S. oiled sereral inci-
dents in the precedents of the House, to show
that equally important coieii had berai referred to
' select committees. The tepoit is oot to be final,
it is to be submitted lo the House for a final deci-
sioB. Mr. 8. remarked ih^t he supposed a select
committee would be appointed which would not
include any of the members who had given in-
formation lo the Hoose on the subject.
Mr. la&Ac Shi-th next rose, and spoke as fol-
Icws: I will lake up the subject where wc left it
yesterday. Debates have run into leogtb and
perplexity on this occasion, which, I presume, has
been owing to our ideas running too much in the
kgal line. We seem to consider ourselres as
boimd by the rules and usages of Common Law
Courts. If we are, 1 am free to say that we hare
bqiun wrong, we have prtwreased wrong, ^d we
wul end wroitg. The rules and usages of Law
Courts arise from, and are founded upon, pre-ex-
isting taws. Here there is no preceding law, and,
iherefore, whaterer we have done, or shall do, is
a mere nullity. Shall we then^re up this busi-
■ess as imjpraeticable 1 No. We will iswrt the
privilege of this House. And what is this privi-
lege 7 Perhaps it never has been defined, nor its
extent and limits asoertained; perhaps it never
aught. The Parliament of Qreat Britain has
iiudiiusly avoided the discuasion. But I will
presume to assert that it is a necessary and com-
petent power lodged in this House, ex ntcetniaie
Tti, by which we are enabled to defend ourselves
■gainst insult from within and contamination
from without ; and this power is to be exeiciMd
It the discretion of the House, and is bonnd by
no rules but what ariee from common sense and
common justice. Bhaclcle it by standing regula-
tions and it is no longer discretion, it is law.
Every ease that occurs must stand on its own bot-
tom, and be determined according to attendant
circumstances.
My opinion, therefore, and I do assure you, sir,
I speak with great diffidence, but my duty com-
pels it— is this: that Randall be brought to the
Ml of this House ; that it be demaoded of him
whether he .is guilty of the faott he has already
Wn charged with 1 He no doubt will say. No, 1
am not guilty. In reply, I would say to hiib, sir.
1 do not believe one word you s^j, for •everal
honorable members have solemnly declared that
you are guilty ; and what you have now to do,
and ill you have to do, is to convince the House,
if you cBD, that, although your conduct was
crime, still you are not criminal, because your
raotires were not corrupt, and your inlentitms
were pure, and you offended merely from igno-
nnec. Tbien you may, perhaps meet with a gen-
^ reprimand for vour indiscretioo. Bat, if yon
fail in this, we will put it ont of your power, dur-
ing the session, to insult the members with your
rascally proposals. A dozen law-yers may attend
him, pocket his money, and walk away at their
leisure. I have no objection, if they do but kup
silence whilst they are here.
Mr. Sberburkb said, that, if the gallery had
been cleared before the affair of lUmdall and
Whitney was first brought before the House, he
would have been ready to consent la a private ex-
amination before a select committee ; but the
charge was made in .the face of the world, and
hence a citizen of America was entitled to an
open trial. Alluding to the speech of Mr. Isaac
Buna, Mr. Bherbcrme thoosht it htgfaiy injO'
rioos to presiune any man guiny, because he had
been accused by members of the House. Whu
is it to Randall who ate the accusers, what an
their characters, or whether they are members of
this House or not 1 We talk about the dignity (^
the House — the rights of our fellow-citizens are
equally entitled to respect and attention. What
a doctrine has been held up to-day ! That a man
is guilty, because he has been aocOsed by mem-
bers of tnis House [ No, sir : every man is pre-
sumed innocent tilt he is proved guilty. Mr. 8.
concluded by wishing tb^ the doors had been
shut when the subject was first introduced.
Mr. MtiRRAT recommended that the subject
should be remanded to a commitiec, which wonU
save a good deal of time.
Mr. Sbebadbre. — When wcsj>eakof privilegae
of the House, it seoms a word oi cabalistic meaa-
ing. Will any gentletnan define or point out
these privileges f In what book of the laws are
they written t If they are indefinite, we inay
come to be hereafter as irmnlar as a C^nveotica,
and our sMjienees as dreadftil n Aose of a revo-
lutionary uibnnal. The latter, when ihcy thought
fit, Tefused to hear the evidence of a priMoer, un-
der pretence that they had already convey^ to
their minds a sufficient conviction of hu gnilL
and he was instuitly honied off to the sca^
fold. It aecmed that this aUodon referred to the
idea of a gentleman fVom New Jersey, that be-
cause Randall had be«i accused by menhcn
of that House, the House were authorized lo
conchide him goilty. The term of Ugei nen
tcripue had been used by the geotleman last up
as to the privileges of the House. The phrase,
Mr. 8. thought, to be derived from the first Coa-
stitutional Assembly of France. They had ap-
Elied it, along with the word inviolability, to
louis XVI., and soon afler cut off bis head. They
had declared that he, like the King of England,
could do no wrong. We have no such officers,
thank Qod. in America, and Mr. 8. hoped that
we never slianld have them. The Pbrbideiit it,
by the Constitution, declared impeachable ; this
House, Ac, are also declared to be so. Where,
then, is the inviolability talked ofl
Mr. Mdbrat said, that we might represent this
matter in a painful tight to the public eye ; hot he
insistett that it wai essential to support the privi-
leges of the House. The meanue of apprehoid-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Case of BandaU. and H%ttn«y.
[Jandakt, 1796.
ing Randall and Whitoey had at 6rai beeo asseoied
to bf all the members. The gentleman who
spoke la£t had, among others, embarked himself
A vote was then taken On the motion for post-
poning the fiiTtber consideration of this a&ir till
Thursday next. Only eighteen geutlenien rose in
the support of it
Mi. HiLLBODBE then moved to strike out the
following words from the report, viz ; " witnesses
on behalf of the prisoner," and to insert, " all wit-
aesses, excepting members of this House, who may
^ive infontiation in their places ; and that all ques-
tions to any member shall be put by the Speakeb,
under the direction of the House."
Mi. S. SuiTB rose to speak a few woids on the
question of swearing members; because, when
the examination should commence, it would be
necessary for him to come forward. He also had
the honor of a visit from Mr. Randall. Before
Mr. SMtTB went last to Baltimore, the man had
, called upon him at his lodgiogs. He requested
and obtained a private conference, wherein he
represented the great advantage that would accrue
to the United States by removing the Indians to
the other side of the Lakes; that this could be
done by the influence of certain merchants ia
Canada. And then he proceeded to the detail of
the plaD, in mnch the same terms at have already
been mentioned in the accounts of Mr. W. Smith,
Mr.MuBfiAT,aDdMr.QiLEa. WhenMr.S.SMirn
came back into the room, he said to a gentleman
now sitting by him, and who lodged with bim.
[Mr. BSbnt, from Virginia,] that he suspected
there was another Qeorgia business going forward ;
and that " I might, perhaps," said Mr. Shitb, smil-
ing, "make my fortune in the Northwestern Ter-
litory." The man spoke with so much decisive-
a majoTity, He was afraid of coming into a deli-
cate situation, if he should mention the proposal
in the House, if there was really any sort of found-
ation for the report. He could not have had an
idea of any man coming forward and flatly telling
such a story, without some reason to think him-
aelf telling truth. Mr. Smith now understood how
these people, while attempting to deceive others,
had in reality deceived themselves. Mr. S.Smith
had listened with patience to the man in the view
of gettinff the whole out of him. Other gentle-
men did the same, and this Randall construed into
approbation. Randall clearly conveyed to me the
idea that such members of Congress who actively
supported their memorial mightliave a large share
in those lands, and ihoaewho oaly gave their con-
sent, a smaller. These were the words of Ran-
dall, who likewise mentioned the number of Sen-
ators who were, as he termed them, snug. Just
alter this application, Mr. Smith was obliged to
letutn to Baltimore on business, and had, on his
wav^ been puzzled in his own mind what to think
of this intelligence, or what to make of it. [Mr. S.
Sttnn had not been in the House since the Ran-
dall affair was laid open, which explains the late-
ness of his rising to speak.] As to the point before
the House, Mt. Suitb was for the members (of
whom he would be one) being exaraioed upon
oath.
Mr. NtcBOLAB was in favor of 'the oath beins
administered to members. Ii bad been allegM
that the oath taken to the Constitution took away
the necessity for another on giving evidence against
Randall and Whitney. If that oath serves here,
it may also regulate our conduct eyerywheie else,
and we may refuse lo swear before an ordinary
Court of Justice. The oath to the Constitution
was not sufficiently connected with the present,
case. It either does not apply to the question be-
fore the House, or it likewise applies to all other
judicial cases. He hoped that the Hom« would
uei'cr arrogate lo themselves such a privilege as
that now contended for. Any improper assump-
tion would make the House incur suspicion, and,
he would add, contempt.
Mr. Sherbdhne, in reply to something which
had fallen from a preceding- member, rose again
to take away any possibility of suspicion that his
arguments glanc«l at members peisonally — an
idea the most remote from his mind. If he had a
trial depending where all he had to lose in the
world was at stake, so perfect and unlimited was
his confidence in the members who gave informa-
tion about Randall, that he would take their verbal
declarations on any point with as much readiness
as if they had been on oath. It was ihe principle
which he looked to. Randall himself had a right
to be satisfied of his having a fair trial. The Houses
like Ciesar's wife, ought to be above suspicion. As
to the argument (hat the oath taken by members
at their admission to a seat in the House prevented
the necessity of swearing in the present case, this
doctrine reminded Mr. Sherborne of something
which he had once seen, A clergyman of New
England was, in the course of a trial, called on to
give evidence. When the Clerk was going to ad-
minister the oath, he turned round lo the Judffes,
and inquired whether his ordination oath, taken
many years before, would not save him a repeti-
tion of that ceremony now.
Mr. Brent, in a few words, related the applica-
tion of Randall to Mr. S. Smith, as already stated,
with Mr. S.' Smith's remark that this seemed to
be a second Georgia business.
Mr. Giles had hitherto been silent; but (he
turn which the (question was taking, induced him
to rise and submit his opinion to the House. He
saw only two reasons for proceeding on the doc- -
trine of privilege. First, where it rose from the
necessity of the case. In the pre.sent ii
from givinff evidence with the usual solemnities
The 'second reason for insisting on privilege might
be the dignity of the House. In a country like
this, where parade is laid aside, dignity consists in
doing right — in adhering to the principles of sub-
siantiat justice. The Hobsc would not consult
their dignity if they should attempt to separate
themselves from the mass ot the people. For his
own pan, Mr. G. should not feel rignt, if he was
to give information without the u«ual solemai-
lies. He wxiuld, therefore, vote that the amend-
ed byGoOglc
HISTOHT OF CONGKESS.
Jahoarv, 1796.]
Ctue of Rtmdail and WhUney.
[H.opR.
ment, so far as it related to exempting members
from giving oath, should be scnick out.
Two other ameadments were successiTely pro-
posed to the ameudmeata of Mr. Hillbodse. It
was difficult to hear them distiaclly ; and the Less
material, because all the reasoDings of geatleme
turned on this single point, whether it was cor
sisCeat with the privileges of the House to let il
members be examined upon oath.
Mr. W. SuiTa staled the inconsist«Dt situations
in which this plan, if adopted, would iavulve gen-
tlemen. A member is giTiag eTidenee, upon oalh,
at the bar : b question is proposed to be put to him,
and the member leares his place as an evidence,
and assumes that of a judge, to give his vote in
decidins whether such a question shall be put to
himseir Where was the propriety of shifcii
characters in this Proteus-like manner? Mr. I
knew DO instance where the members of a Legi
latire body were ever sworn by that body, (
Kving evidence about a question of privilege. It
ippeaed only where there was a trial before the
House. The moment you decide (hat members
are to be sworn, they are virtually suspended ; for,
on any question which they were to answer as
witnesses, they would not have a title to deter-
mine as judces, The moment that you resolve
this thing tolie determined by the rules of judicial
FvideDce, you alter the whole nature of the trans-
action : your former proceediogs are admitted to
have been wrong, and Randall may briog an action
■gainst the Speaker for damages and w:rong im-
prisonment.
Mr. Buent observed, (hat when the writ for
ipprehending Randall and Whitney was issued,
he had his doubts that the House were proceeding
too far : he was suspicious that they exceeded the
limits of their authority. In the present stage of
the business, be was less indeterrainale in his opi-
nion on the present question, relative to the mem-
bers being on their oath as witnesses. He thought
it noways derogatory to them as members, nor
would it be BO to the Fbesident op the United
States; it could not lessen the digniiy of any
character whatever. Mr. B. was ia favor of the
House proceeding so as to give the accused all the
advantaffcs they could derive from counsel in a
Court of Law. He sawno reason for a departure
from the common rules of taking evidence. It is
iatd not to be usual for Legislative bodies to pro-
ceed as a Court of Judicature, and that memoers
of Legislative bodies are not put on oath in their
L^ifilative capacities. This [dea is derived from
■he practice of the Parliament of Great Britain.
I- that a sufficient precedent for us? He hoped
noL Our great object is this : thai the House be
•ecured from disrespect and insnit. This idea
forms the basis on which iLs privileges as a Legis-
lative body arc supported. It is from the nature
of the ease, and not from Bntish precedents, that
the privileges of this House is derived. Advert-
iit:; to the members being sworn, he conceived
that there was no more impropriety in il, on the
{round of their being judges, than there is in the
Lid^of a Court, who. when called on to give evi-
dence, descends from tae Bench — is swom — gives
imony witb the customary solemnities —
his seat — and ultimately gives judgment.
Mr. Habpbb was in favor of' the members being
sworn to the truth of the declarations, when called
on to give evidence. He knew of nothing in the
present case that rendered it necessary they should
be exempted. Evidence on oath is the basis of
law proceedings in this country. It had been
afiirroed by Mr. Smith, (his colleague,) that if a
Judge were insulted in his office, the Court would
proceed immediately to puniih the offender. Mr.
H. said he apprehended not : the Judge must make
oath to his complaint. It has been said that the
members cannot with propriety be interrogated or
cross-questioned. The inference from this is, that
because we are judges in our own cause, we will
preclude the accused from the usual modes of vin-
dicating themselves. Mr. H., in adverting to the
members being sworn, dtaciaimed all personal con-
siderations. The gentlemen who would probably
be affected by the r^ulation possessed characters
far above suspicion. Mr. H. considered the du-
Cussion Bs forming an uninteresting precedent.
A motion was now made to adjourn — ayes 34,
noes 50.
The amendment before the House, at this par-
ticular place of the debate, was, in sabstance, as
follows: Instead of saying^ in the report, that ''the
Judge of the District of Pennsylvaaia should be
requested to attend to administer the oath to wit-
nesses on behalf of the prisoner," the amendment
proposed to strike out the last six words, and insert,
^lo all witnesses."
Mr. W. Smith rose after Mr. Harper, and
remarked, that if the doctrine laid down by that
gentleman was right, it was a judicial proceeding
altogether, and the House had been in the wroi^
from the beginning to the end of the matter. He
would oppose the present motion, ia every poscv-
ble shane and stage of it ; for if we must go on by
judicial rules, we must have a Qrand Jury, &c.,
and (though by what authority Mr. S. could not
tell) must convert ourselves into a Court of Law.
If the motioD succeeded, he gave notice of his
design to move that Robert BAndall and Charles
Whitney should be dismissed from the bar of the
House, and that the PaEainBHT op tbb Unitbd
States should be requested to prosecute them for
their offence in one of (he Federal Courts.
Fifty-four gentlemen rose in support of the
amendment, which was carried. The House then
agreed to the report of the Committee of Privi-
leges ; which report, as amended, is in the follow-
ing words :
" That the proper mode of condndinf the fnrtlwr
inquiry and the trial in the c«m of Bobert SandaU and
Charles Whitney will be to proceed, first, with a Aulber
hearing of Robert Randall at the bar of the House.
That the information th&thas been given against tha
■aid Robert Randiili and Charles Whitney bo rc<lu<:ed
' writing, and signed by the informants thcmsehcg,
ipectivety, and entered at large on the Journal; that
the said information be read to (he priionen, and that
they bo called upon by the Speaker to declare what they
have to sav in then' defence.
" That, if the said prisonen ihtH o&er any parole evl-
,db,Googlc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-ofR.]
BritM 7V«ii(y— OMnnwmaJ /tutrietioiu-~Flag aj /Vance. [Ji
4anaa in tbeir ncnlpatkm, tbc aune ahan b« hnud al
thabw of the HoOM, Mcsptiiii: th* memban oftba HooM,
whomAjgin their tcetimonj on o«lli, m tiirii pUcea ;
and no qnealion ikU be p«l to anj meaiber on dw part
of dte priaoMr, by wmj 4tf imMi-«kainination, escept )aa*e
be finrt giran bj th« Hooae; and arMT awdi qneetiDn
riuObepntbytheBpeaker; and that Uw Jud^e of the
Dirtrict of PeiuuylTania be rafnealed to attend, fcr the
poipoaa (tf adrnmiftitriiit an oalh at affiimabMi (o all
witnewea. That all qiwationa on the part of the Honae,
to be atked of the aaid witneaaea, ilwll b« put bj tlie
"That, on everjr debate, the priaoneraand their coan-
■el ahall be directed to withdraw \ and that, when they
aiwll have condnded their definoe, and 'are withdrawn,
the aenae of the Hoiue ahaO be taksn on the gtult or
« of the priaonen, napectivelj'.''
HoNiuy, January 4.
THE BHTTISH TREATY.
Mr.PiRKBR preaenied five petiiiona a^insi the
late Treaty witn Britain, from certain citizeos of
Virginia. He said thai they were copiw of some
other petitionB on that bead already presented to
the House, which made it perhaps unnecessary to
read them. Mr. Tract asked whence the peti-
tions camel Mr. Parebb answered, from Nor-
fdk county. Mr. Tbitcher inquired if ibey were
from corporate bodies. Mr. Parser replied thai
they were from indiTiduaia. The pMitioni were
referred to the Committee of the Whole House
OD the state of the Union.
COMMERCIAL RESTRICTIONS.
Mr.S. Smits laid on the table a resolution, which
was ordered to be printed. Il was in substance tu
followi ;
"AeaoAieA That, fton and after the —
it dtall not be lawful fbvanjfbnifn ship '
to land in the United Stals any goods, wares, cr met-
dtandiae, except sacb as are of the prodnoe, gfawtb,ar
manahetnre, of the nation to whidk audi ah^ or odier
Tsaaal maj belong."
Mr, 8. obseiredj that at the session before last,
one of the resolutions offered by a member from
Virginia was insnbstanceanalagous tolhepreseul
resdution, and that resoltuion, there was reason to
believe, would hare passed. The Treaty lately
negotiated made some provision, of the hind con-
templated, more essentially necessary than ev^r.
Such a protecting encouragement to the Ameri-
can navigation was the more proper, as, when the
said Treaty should be in force, it must receive a
PRESENTATION OF THE FLAG OF FRANCE.
The Spsakbr informed the House, that a Mes-
sage was read; to be delivered to the House, of a
nature calculated to give the most pleasing satis-
Ihclion to every American breast. He suggested
to the House, and the ciiizeus in the galleries, the
propriety of not suffering the fervor of enthu-
siasm to infringe on the dignity of the Representa-
tive Councils of the United Slates. He recom-
mended that a respectful silence should be ob-
served, as most compatible with the true digitity
or other veeeel
of the House, and the honor of the magnanimous
Republic that wbi> the subject of the Messa^.
The PRBfliuEHT'B Secretary was then intro-
duced, with an American officer bearing the
Standard of the French Republic* sent by the
Committee of Public Safety, Otesn of the Na-
tional Convention, as a token of friendship to the
United States. The Secretary presented a Mes-
sage in writing from the President, with sundry
papers aeeompan' ■----'"—
they were read a
Gm/femm of lie Senaft, and
of lie House of SepraeniatiMt.-
A Letter, from the Minister Plen^wtentiaij of the
French Kepnblic, leceiv ed on tbc 23d of the last mcmth,
covered an Address, dated the Slat of October, [791,
tzma the Committee of Public Bsftly to the Repreaen-
tativeB of the United States in Congreai ; and also in-
formed me that he was instructed b; the Oamnitttee to
preaent to the Unilsd thatea the Colora of France. I
thereliire propoaed to neetve them laat Friday, the firat
day of the neiw year, a day trf refwial y» and coagia-
talalion. Oa thai day dM Miniater of the, French Re-
pnHie delireted the Ooloia, with an Addraaa, to which
1 retnmad an anawer. By the latter, the Hooaa will
•oe that I have infomied the Minwter Oat the Colon
will be depoailed with the aiehivca of the United Statea.
tinned Eriendahip of the French R^ublic, together with
the eentiments eipreased by me on the occawi»i in be-
half of the United States. They are herewith com-
mnnieated. G. WASHINGTON.
UaiTiD Statis, January 4, 1TS6.
[TBARS I. ATtOH.]
The RaprasentaliTes of the Fnndi People, eompoaing
the Committee of Pnbtic SaJety of the National
Convention, charged by the law of the 7th Frueti*
dor, with the Direction of Farogn RelatioDa, to the
Repmasntativea of the United States of AnMnu in
Congraea aaaemUed i
Cilixens Rtprae>Uati»ei .- The connexions which
nature, ree^nocsl eventa, and a lujipy coDmiieiicv of
circnmstaneea, have formed between two tree "**■""-.
cannot but be indiaaoluble. Yon have strengthened
dioee aacnd tiea by the declaistioiia, which the Mini*-
ter Plenipotentiaiy of the United Statea haa ma^, in
your name, to the National Convention, and la the
French people. They have been received with r^Mure
by a nation who know how to appreciate every teali-
mon; nbidi the United Stales have given to Uiem of
dieir aflection. The Colors of both nationa, united in
the center of the Nationsl Convention, will be an ever-
lasting evidance of the part wbieb the United States
have taken in the success of the French Repafalic
-b is ut'Colw, laada of tke richest
Ih allsgorical falailni^ In the
..leemblrmiirFnnc^iuiDiJlagaD
in, dUtoaaJlv oppoelM, tn teptr-
.Jng : u ibeauier im eunwn, oikFr
„^ Ibe wliDle b a nch bonlw of wk
lecT**, ahoiutalT yalloii and creea ; tbefimihsdsd nrlih bimro
BBd haigkiHwdwIilicDliliUwlauarihadedwak black amt le-
Uered wlUi illTeri In this bonier are sDMloed mrlilip muaka'.
iDStmiDanu. Tlw tift it orsunfmeil wiJi a rich nild Inner
Ths lUff la Cdirsnd oliti black tcIim, cnnvnnj vrith ■ foldpn
[Hk«,>ndearlched wiA ihs irieoloc cnnus and a iialrof uosls
Kurlied In grid, and ifa« ihrm nuinsal toinn Tha flai is id be
d^Mhsd la Uie«nklna<r tka Unhad Sum
.dbyGOOgle
HBTOHY OF CONGBESS.
jAinrABT, 1796.]
Flag of Fhwtce.
[H.or&.
You waie tb« fint dsftotten of the lighU of mui v
inothei hemiij^n. StreDgibened b; joor eiunjdE
■nd endowed with ui iniindble energj, tb« Frencli
peopli hare Ttnqnicbed thst Tjrannj, which, daring
ance and happinca*. "naj were dsejdy a^ctad at
~~ — ntaiy mufiMonM, occMianed I17 treaaoiiB g
I Irr BngGA gold. TIM7 tui*« Miebimted with
Nona of tbcM nBipatliatic oaotioni have eiiaped
<£ &» FModi nation. They ham all
s moat intiroatt and
that haa ev«r axialed between two nationa.
The eitiian Anrr, who will node neai your Qorem-
rnaut in quality of Minialar Plenqiatentiaiy of the
Franeh Bepuhlic, ie specially iiutnict^ to lighten theee
haiidj of Eratemitj and mutual benevolenoe. We hope
that he may fulfil Ihi* prindpat object of hia miuion,
by a cooduGt worthy of the confidence of both natiooe,
and of the Taimtatioa wbick hia patiiotiBm and Tittuea
hare acqiuied him.
An analogy ef political principles ; the natural lels-
tion* of commerce and indoatry; the efibrta and im-
menae aacnfico of both nationa in the defence of lib-
erty and equality ; the blood wbidi thry hare apilled
lOKBttui ; their avowed hatred fcr deapota ; the modera-
Ikm of their political viewa j die di' ' ' ■ ■- -
Aeir conndli ; aod especially, the n
which thn ha
Bnog, to be b
Hof thentwi
» of the Snpnmt
lie l» rmdet inde-
■mclible the eonnenona whiA they have fbimed.
Doubt it not, dlizena, we ahall finally destroy the
Mmtnnation of ^tanla. Tou, by the picture of pnia-
pentf, whicb, in your vast Dountiiea, haa anooaeded to
t bloody atniggle of eight yean ; we, by the enthn-
■aam which glows in the breast of every Frenchman.
Aitonished nations, too long the dnpea of perfidiaua
can and French nations their i«geiienition and a last-
Paris, 30th yindemaire, 3d year of the French Re-
poUic, one and indivisible.
The Manbei* of the ComHittas of Pabhc SaAty.
J. a B. DBLMA8.
MERLIN (of Dooai) Ac
OvT«a» », 17H.
ifr. PraUmt .- I come to acquit tnyaelf of a duty
ven dear to my heart ; I cotne to deposite in your hands
ilM in tb« midat of a people justly renowned for their
onirage and their love of liberty, the symbol of the
triumph* and of the enfranchisement of my nation.
When she broke her chaina ; when she proclaimed
the impreacriptiUe righta of man ; when, in a teiribli
war, she sealed with her blood the corenint she hai
made with Liberty, her own happineai was not alone
the Direct of hei glorious eSbrta; her tlovts extended
also to all free people. Sbe saw their interests blended
with hn own, and doubly rejoiced in her victories,
which, in aaauring to her O16 enjoyment of her rights,
became (0 them new guarantees of their independence.
These sentiinenta, which animated the French na-
lion fivm the dawn of their revolution, have acquired I
new atiength aince the bundatton of the Republic. {
France, at th«l tine, by the form of it
aaaiailated to, or rather identified with, fiaa people,
saw in tb«an.oiily fiieikd* and brotheta. Long aeca»
tomed to legaid the Amencan people aa bar moat &ith-
ful atlies, aha haa aought to draw ctaea the ties already
fbrowd in tbo fielda of America, nnder the auafooea ot
victory, over the ruina of tyranny.
The National Conventioni the organ of the vrill of
the French natimt, have nom than mce eipresaed
their aentimants to the American people ; bnt abiave all,
these burat forth on that august uy, when tbe HiluS'
ter of the United StateK preaented to the National
Representation the Colon of bia country. Desjiing
never to lose recollections as dear to Frenchmen as
Ihej moat be to Ameiiisos, the Convention ordered
that these Colon riiould be placed in the hall of their
sittings. They had eipeiiencod sensations too agreea-
ble not to cause them to be partaken of by their alli«a,
and decreed that, to them, the Natitmal Caleta should
be presented.
Mr. Presideat, I do not doubt thait eipectatioaa will
be fulfilled ; and I am convinced that every dtizen will
receive, with a pleasing emotion, this flag, elsewhere
the terror of the enemiea of liberty, here the certain
pledge of faithful friendship; especially when they re-
collect that it guides to combat, men who have shared
their toils, and who were prepared Sx liberty by aiding
them to acquin th^ own.
P. A. ADET.
The Anawer at the Preeident of the Dntled Sutes to
the Addresa of Ae MIntstw Plenipotentiary of ths
French RapnUic, on hla ptaseoting the Ctdon of
Franos to the United States :
Bom, air, in a land of liberty; having earij learned
ila value ; having engaged in a perilous confuct to de-
fend it ; having, in a word, devoted the best years of
my life to secure ita penaaoent establiahment in mj
own conntrj; my aniiona recollections, my sympa-
thetic feelings, and my beat wiahea,Bre irreaistiUy ei-
dted, whensoever, in any country, I aee an oppressed
nation unfbrl the bamier of freedom. But, above all,
the events of the French Revolution have produced
the deepest solicitude, aa well aa the highest admira-
tion. To call yonr nation brave, were to pronounce
but common praise. Wonderfiil people! Agee to
come vrQI read with astonishment me hiatoiy of your
brilliant exploits ! I rejoice that the period of yonr
toils and of yonr immense saerifioes is ^tjooaching.
I ttijoice that the interesting revolutionary niovemenls
of ao many years have issued in the fbrmatioti of a
Constitution deaigned to give permanency to the great
object for which you have contended. I rejoice that
liberty, which you have so long embraced with enthn-
aiasm ; liberty, of which you have been the inviooible
defenden, now finds an asjinm in the bosom of a regn-
larly organiied Government ; a Government, which,
being formed to secure the bappineea of the French
people, correapoflda with the ardent wiahes of my heart,
while it gratifies the [mde of every eitiien of tiie
United States by its reaemblanca to their own. On
these gloriona events, acccfjt, sir, my ainoere congrato-
ilivering to you these Benliments, [ esprsss not
my own feelings only, but those of my fellow -dtiMns,
' relation to the commencNUsnt, the progress, and the
ne of the French Revolution : and they will cor-
dially join with me in pnrest wiahes to the Bnpreme
, thai the c
a of a
' RopubUc,
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R.]
Cote of Randall and Whitney.
[Ja,
1, 1796.
■ alliet, ms; Mon eqjoj', in peace, that
fitwrt; which the; hvre purchaied at bo great a price,
•nd dl die happiana which liberty con bealow.
I receiTB, aij, with liTcl; lennbiiitj, the symbol of
the triunphi and of the enfnuichisemenl of your na-
tion— the Colora of France — which yon h&ve now pre-
■ented to the United States. The trajinction will be
announeed-to Consien, and the Colors will be de-
podlad with those arehivea of the United 8tst«a, which
are at once the eiidencee and the memoiiala oF their
fteadom and independence. May these be perpetual,
and may the triendahip of the two Bepublica be com-
menaurate with their existenco.
GEORGE WASHINGTON.
(Thitbd SrtTta, January I, 1796.
When the reading of tbe Messsf^e and papers
had been concluded —
Mr. GiLBB informed the House thai, haTing-
been aware that the Flag would be presented to
the House this day, considering il as an additional
testimony of the affection of France, and it hav-
ing been the practice on analogous occasions for
the House to express their sentiments indepeud-
enl of the other branch, he had prepared a reso-
lution expressive of what he conceived would be
their s«ise on the occasoa. It was nearly in the
words following :
"Saolved, That the President of the United
Staira be leqneated to make known to the Repreaent-
ativea of the French people, that this Honae haa re-
ceived, with the most lively eeDsibiJi^, the communi-
cation of the Committee of Public Safety, of the Slit
of October, 1794, accompanied with the Colore of the
French Republic, and to asaure them that the preaenta-
tion of the Colon of Fiance to the Congreaa of the
United States ia deemed a moat honorable testimony of
the eiisting aympathy and sffecUona of Ihe two Re-
publics, founded upon theii solid and reciprocal inte-
leat* ; that the House rejoices in the opportunity of
congratulating the Fiendi Republic on the briUisnl
and glorious acliievementa accomplished undei it during
the present afflictive war, and that they hope those
achievements will be attended with a perfect attain-
ment of their object, the permanent eatabliahment of
the liber^ and happiness of that great and magnani-
mous peojde."
Mr. Sbdqwick wished that a thousand copies
of the communications might be printed, and the
further consideration of the Message deferred till
Mr. W. Smith also recommended a delay. In
the sentiments of the resolution they all agreed.
Perhaps the wording might be somewhat altered.
Mr. Harper rose and moved that, for various
reasoDSj which he staled, the resolution should be
immediately taken up and acted upor.
Mr. SwiKwicK was against postponing the con-
sideration of the Message, and observed that the
CoDventioD, on receiving a similar present from
this country, had proceeded instantly to a vote
respecting it.
Mr. W. Smith, recommended to alter the word-
ing of the resolution, by inserting the Executive
of France, instead of the Representatives of the
Mr. Shi
tsoRNE observed, that the'difference of
opinion respecting the branch of Government to
which the answer of the House .should be address-
ed, furnished an additional reason for postpone-
ment. He highly respected tbe author of the mo-
lion, and believed his own feelings on the present
occasion as fervent as those of any member. And
though the feelings of the House might not be as
ardent on the morrow as at this momeDl, yet he
presumed that the sentiment would be the same.
He conceived that it would be more satisfactory
to the Republic, and more consistent with the dig-
nity of the House, that their answer should be the
result of cool deliberation, than a sudden impulse
of enthusiasm, which the present occasion was
calculated to inspire. He would therefore move
that the further consideration of the r i^olutioD on
the table he postponed until to-morrow.
Mi. Swanwick thought a postponement in this
case, as in any others, would only be a waste of
time. The motion was negatived.
Mi. W. Smith's amendment was then taken up,
and, after some conversation, was also negatived.
Mr, Parker moved an amendment as lollows ;
" That this House has received with the most «ii»-
cere and lively aensibility," &c. The amendmeot
was for inserting the two words in italics, to which ,
the House consented. Themessagewas then voted
unanimously, and a thousand copies of the cant'
munications and resolution were ordered to be
printed. A committee of two members was ap-
pointed to wait on the pRESiDEirr, and inform him
of the resolution agreed to by the House.
CASE OF RANDALL AND WHITNEY.
Pursuant to the proceeding.i of the Honse on
Friday last Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, Mr.
Mi^RRAY, of Maryland, Mr. Giles, of Virginia,
and Mr. Bdce, of Vermont, delivered in at the
Clerk's table their several informations in writing,
subscribed with their name.s, respectively, iu the
cases of Robert Randall and Charles Whitney ;
which are as follow :
W1LI.I1B Smith, one of the Repleaentativee of the
State of South Carolina in the Congma of tbe United
Stales, declares —
That, on Tuesday last, the twenty-eecond inaiuit, •
person who called liimaelf , ^ Randall, and who is
said to be from the State of Maryland, applied to him at
his lodgings, in the dty of Philadelphia, and requested
a private and confidential conversation of an bout,
which the informant agreed to j and at the time ap-
pointed, which was the same evening, the said Randall
being alone with the informant, commonicated to him
a proposal for procuring from the Legialature of the
United States a grant of about eighteen or twenty millions
of acres in Iho Northwestern Teriitory, between Lakes
Michigan, Huron, and Eiie. That the said Randall oh-
aerred, that the grant he proposed would be of great
service to the United States, &om the persons who
would be interested herein, (to wit: certain Canada
meichants at or near Detroit, whose names he did not
mention.) hafinf great influence over the Indiana, who
General 1
tinguish the Indian claims at their o'
after setting fbrtii the saving of expense, by the c
,db,Googlc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Catt 0/ Raadali and Whitney.
[H..
tiaa of the Induii wu, tad other n
intentiaii wu to dJTida the land inU Bbout fort; ■hares,
twent;-fbui of which would b« allowed to, or distiibutad
■mong, luch penoiu (meaning, w thia intbmisnt un
deratood him, 6om the whole puiport of hia eonveraa'
lioD, memben of CoDgreat) ai woold &vor the meature
that of tbaee twenty-ioor atiena, be kwl the managsment
or djatriboliaa of twelve for dte SonHieni pMt, (mauung,
aa the infonnaiit vndMitood, the Sonthon membetB of
Congtw,) and anather p«n>DD,wluMB name he did
mmlioD, had Om di^KwitiMt of the other tiwlve, Ibr the
''U, aa the hdbnnant nndentood and
■a afbrenid.) That he, the aaid Ran-
Md mbdinding the aaid ahuee into ao many
a to hiTe a raffideney to obtain a majority,
aa Ae infmnant nndeiatood him, a majoiity
■f CMignaa,) and that g«ntlsmen, after the eaanoD waa
o*er, or'wben th^ ratunod to private bfe, might thu
have inch parte of ibaraeiaa the aaid twen^-lbm-ih*rca
wonld be reaemd far naeh at them aa wo^ laTor the
boHneB, on the «ame terma aa the original anodalon.
That the new of him, the laid Randall, and of Iheae
ooncenwd with him, wn to preeent a memorial on the
iiUowing Monday, to Goagreaa, lo obtain die wid grant
fo a email prie«, mentioning half a toilhon of di^lin;
and that he mppoaed the land waa w(«h noie than
two ahillinga an acre. On taking leaTe,he preied tlm
informant for an early and deciaiira antwer to the fore-
going propoaala ; to which the faiihnnant reidied, that
he would not wiah to aee him again before Friday
morning, and reque«ted him to call on him at Congreaa,
and not at hia lodginga; but the HouH did not nt on
Fridny, and the informant baa not aeen him liuce. The
inionnant further aaya, that the forgoing ia the aub-
Nance and purpart of the conunnnicalien to him made
by the aaid Randall, on the ml^ieet ahino aet &nth ; and
that the imprr— ion dearly made on the mind of the in-
Ibnnant, I^ the oveitorei, waa, that, under a pretext of
public utihty, (he otgect of the application waa, to lecure
the infanoant'a influence, a« a member of Congreaa, by
a lemptatian of great pemaal advantage. Tlutthein-
fiHmant, the next morning, communicated the lub-
■lanee of the foregong to Mr. HurrM,one of the mem-
ben from Maryland, and conaulled him on the moet
proper mode of proceeding on ■> delicate an oecaaion ;
that Mr. Murray adriaed a conaultation with Mr. Hemy,
of the Senate ; and that, in cODaeqneDoe of aoch con-
Boliaiion with Mr- Murray and Mr. Henry, on ^e fol-
lowing day ^ThoTidaj) it waa reaolved, that the inform-
ant ahonld immediately communicate the whole tiaua-
•ction to the PreaUent of the United Siatea; which he
accotdingly did.
WILLIAM SMITB.
DaciMBBB 38, ITOS.
Mr. Mdbut decbrea, Out, on Wednaaday Uat, the
twenty-diini inatant, Mr. Smith, member of Congrea,
sfSoadi C«iotin«4 inftnnedhim thatamanof thename
of Ran<m, of MaryUnd, had, the evening before, at-
tempted 10 bhhe him in Weatem Ivi^ (m condition of
lui ntmoctillg bm ^pUeation whidi Rand&U told him
he 4MraU BQoa make lo Congraaa ; the object of which
n waa, a grant from Congreaa of firom eighteen
milUona of acre* of land. Between Erie, Hu-
[ Midiigau. That Mr. Smith waa eitremel;
and advin with him upon proper maaiurea for the de-
tecting of the fiiU extent of the acheme, and cmahing
il ; That he had no opportunity of talking to Mr. Hem;
on that day ; but early on the morning of the twcn^-
foaith inatant, communicated the intelligence to Mr.
Henry, who recommended that Mr. Smith should im-
mediately inform the Preaident : that on die aaid day,
Mr. Randall, of Maryland, was introduced to him, the
informant, and requested a confidential interview at hia,
the informant'a lodgings, which the mfoimant readily
promiaed htm, to be at five, for the purpoae of develop-
ing hie tcheme. That Randajl came at or near five,
that day last named, to wit: on Thursday, and com-
maniF*ted to Mr. Henry and himself, in general terma,
the outline of a plan by which he, Kendall, and hia
Canada friends, would eitinguiih the Indian title to all
the lands between lakes Erie, Huron, and Michigan, aa
marked on a map which Randall then showed, contain-
ing fma eighteen lo twen^ milHona of aiTM. That
he, the iniimnant, then aaked Randall into hia apart-
ment, vrhere they were alone. That Randsill eipatialed
at fitat upon the public utili^ of his scheme, which waa,
that Congrem ahonld grant to him and hia company,
all the land aforesaid mentioned, for five hundred thoia-
saad, or, at moet one million of doUaia ; and that he
would undertake, in four months, that the harmony of
the IndiaiH should be ■eeoted to the Union ; or, if Con-
greaa thon^t proper, that the Indian tribes now on
nidlandihaalcl be removed to theBriliahiide,ordown
lake Michigan, reaerviug to some aged dlteb ■ few '
milee square; that hia company and himself had ^lar-
mioed lo drride the landa aforesaid into forty (or forg-
one) (haras. That of tbaea share* twuiQ-foor were to
be reserved for the di^Kisal of himaelf end hia partnn,
now in town, for sndi tnenderaof CougiiMeaa aaaialad
them, by their abilities and votea, in dUabung tbegnnt
aforesaid : Tliat of these twen^-fanr aharea, hia partner
lULd twelve uodeihiflmanagemeDlbrtbeEaatemMiem-
ben of Congress, hnd that he, Randall, hul the odier
twelve aharea under hia management for the Sonthent
members of Congiesa. That theae shares were to be ao
divided as to accompliah the object by securing a majo-
rity of Congreaa. That the informant itaited sn objec-
tion to land speculatian as troubleaome. and that be.
caah in hand for your ahare. That the iofonnant aj.
pointed JUndall to meet him in the lobby of the House
on Monday, the twenty-eighth instant. That Randall
told him a memorial was to be lianded in upon Ihis sub-
ject on nid Mond&y ; but retosed to infoim the in-
formant what member was to preeeni it : That Randall
told him, that he, Itandall, mentioned hia plan to aome
memben in the general way oiily.-7-meaning thereby,
as be uitderstood him, a view of the sounder part of the
plan, aa being conducive to public utility. That, in the
early part of ihe confidentul and secret conversatioD,
Randall said, that the members of Congrcas who would
behave handsomely, ahonld come into their share* on
(he seme terms upon which the company obtained the
grant ; but soon after, made proposal* more openly as-
ductive and corruptj closing them with the oflei of
cash in hand (u afbresaid. That the informant, on that
evening, when Randall went away, told Mr. Henry of
the whole of Randall's offera aforesaid ; then called on
the Secretary of State, and eonminmcated the same to
him ; and the next morning, early, informod the Presi-
dent of the tiansactioa. W.' V. MURRAY.
DicivBH 39, IT9&.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Coat of BandaU and WhUaty.
[J*IIDA»T,1796.
)t^
That in &» eToning of Tbnnd&y, tKa MTentaaiithof
Docenbei, una thonniid atnea hnndrad and nmelT>£
■■ well uth»mftrmuitnMllecti,apfinan called u]
tUa infoimBiit at hit lodgiDgi, nnd«r As ni
bent Randall, with an intToduebHT nota frmn Ht. 6a-
brial ChiiiRie, in the nmi«l fetm, dated the fiOeenth of
ttie laid aiOQtb.
That the aaid Robnt Randkli inferaied thii infbnn-
ant, that he bad
OMue ba&ce Congnai : That it re^ieMad
at praaent cairied on by the fliitiih tcaden
diani, tbioagh th« lakes. He otaened that it would ba
impoitant to change (ha comae of that trade into eome
diuinel thiM^ the United Statea : That he belie*ed
he could put Congmn upon taaa plui for afiectiBf that
object: That the plan nu of a aecret nature ; That he
waa not then [nepaied to diecloae it, and reqaeated a
l^rivale intertiew with thii informant for that pnniaae,
•t aome other time. Upon which leqneat, thia intonu*
ant appmnted the nsit Batoidaj, at twehe o'dock, (be-
ing the nineteenth of ■" ■ ■ ■ ■ ■•
That about Ihe time q)pointed, die aaid lUnrt San-
4aU called on tUi infbrnmnt, and lAei aoine geoeial
oonreiaatian, infiimied this infnmant, that an aaaocia-
tion had been fonned b; '■""—If and othen, with aome
of the aoet inSuantial tiaden at Detroit, for the purpoae
-of pnrchaaing all the landa contained in the Pentnanla
fcimed by lakaa Erie. Huron, and Michigan, and the
iraten connecting those lake*, amounting in the whi^
to twenty or thirty milliona of acrei, if the conaent of
Congraia could be obtained for th« extinguishment of
the Indian claima thereto. The aaid Randall then pro-
duced a m^i of the Peninanla and Lakce.
That thla tivct of conntiT waa to be divided into
■harea, and that a number of iharei waa to be left un-
appropriated, until the neceaaaiy law of Congreaa should
paaa, authorizing the extinguiiliainit of the Indian
claims ; and might then be filled up by those who might
think proper to concur in the plan, and should give
their aid for procuring the passage of each law. Upon
this intimation, thia informant observed, that he hoped
the aaid Randall did not intend to address the informa-
tion of the unappropriated shares particulaily to this in-
fermant
To which the said Randall replied that he did not ;
lllat he only meant it as general information ; but he
could see no improprie^ in the members of Congress
being concerned in the scheme, if the public good wai
to be promoted by it ; and that thirty or forty members
were already engaged in its support ; or words Co that
After some further conveiaation of a general naCure,
respecting the present state of the fiir trade, the value of
the lands contained in the peninsula, and the probable
effect of the late Treaty upon that trade and country,
the said Randall inquired of thia infiiJoiBnt " whether
he deemed his plsa advisable, and whether it would
meet with the support of thia infbnnant in Congress."
To which thia infoimant replied, that if the aaid Ran-
dall should bring his proposals before Congieas, this in-
formant would give them the consideration which his
du^ rei^uired, and ^ould ^ve such vote as ha deemed
right; or words to thai effect. Very diortly eiter this
, Hr. Edward Livingston, a member of
Congreaa beta New York, antered the room, aad tfaa
aaid Randall left H, wiUioat lurdier obaerralion, as w^
as this infbnnant recollects. Tha inibnnant Immedi-
alaly communicated the oontents of thia csnTeraalion to
Hr. Livingaton, and declared that he o " ' ''" ~
~ of the ni ■ • ■
noAiof the
OongraBB,aB
m aame day, oommnnicaled tba
aubataitce <tf dto connnitttmi to the Speaker <d the
Hooae of SepreaantatiTaa oftbe United St^ea, to MeasTB.
BkiiDit, and Macon, of North Carolina, and ta Meson.
Madison, and Venable, of Viigiiut. It waa deemed ad-
viaaUe by all thaae gentleoum, aa wd aa by this in-
formant, to permit the plan to be bnmgnt befora CoB-
gNSS in Iha. unial way, by iMmnial,aiidtooauaaade-
laction, by means at a onnniittae, to whom the aaid
moBOfial shouki be referred : and in (he mean linta, if
the said Randall should afain call onthiainlbrmaiit,ha
should procoMl to make fbrther disooveiry of dta real
stale and nature of the tiansactioti.
That OD the next day the aaid B«"^ll did again c^
on thia inin'mant, and informed lum, that be, the saM
Randall, then proposed to diadose hia pian mora puti-
eularly ; and aitn some general remariia upea Ae pub-
lic utility, aa well aa individual benefit of Ae jUan, he
said that it was in substance as Jolkrwa ;
The tract of country before deacribed waa to be &
vided into tbr^^ne shares, five of which were to be r»>
served to the Indian traden at Detroit ; the other Oiir^-
■ix were to be divided into two departments ; eighteen
to the Eastern and eighteen lo the Bonthem depart-
vent. That six out of the eighteen shares were to
be reserved to his Eastern partner and asaoeiatea, and
six out of the remaining eighteen, to himself and hia
assodates. Tb*t the remaining twenty-four shares
were to be left nnappropiiated, for the use of such mem-
bers of Congreea as should support the mea.sni«. That
the names of those members were not to be made
knovm untO after the law for theeitingniahment of the
Indian claims had paaaed ; and then requested this in-
formant lo prepare some writing which wonld compel
the ostensible persons lo SDrrender the nnappropri^ed
shares to the real Kupportera of the measure, after it
should be eSeded. Thai one million of dollars were
spoken of as thf price of the lands ; but that he deemed
that sum by far too much ; and ss Congress would have
to fix the price, they might make die terms such bs to in-
sure considerable emoluments CO the purchaseta. That
a majority of the Senate hod consented to give the plan
their sopport, and within three of a majority of the
House of Hepresentatives. After much farther conver-
sation on the subject, which this informant thinks nn-
necnsary lo particularise, the said Randall promised lo
wait again on this informant, at his lodgings, on Tuea-
day evening, aC seven o'clock, and introduce Co this in-
fi>miant his Eastern asaodate.
The aaid Randall did not calf at the appointed hour,
and this informant did not see him again until Piidajr,
the twenty-fifth of December, when the said Randall
again called on this inlbmant, and. sfler making an
apology for not calling at the appointed hour of the
precedmg Tuesday, informed him at the door of hb
apartment, that his memorial to Con-cTSB would ba
ready to be presented on Ihe next Monday ; but as aave-
rol gentlemen were in this informant's room at that
lime, the said Randall did not enter, and no fbrther oon-
veraation waa then had ; sines which time diis iufbrv-
snt has not seen the said Randall, until he waa tnvnght
to the bar of the House ol RqnesentstiTas, in coatody.
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF COKGRESH.
JlNDAlT, 1796.]
Com oS BandaU and miitney.
IVa infmwiil totbar Mhh, dkM ha oommimieatad
iIm ralatuice of emy material ooii*emliI>ii wMi the
mi Kaodall, to Ob Spaakw of tke Houn of Bepraen-
lalnBi, ud to lb* Hrcnl gontteaien befina tMnUnisd.
WILLIAM B. GILES.
JiKuui t, I7»6.
I, DmiK Buck, inform and M^,lliBt about taa days
ptariotu to my aatting out on my jourtMy to Congreaa,
(wUeh »■■ an Um Ihiitiatfa day of Nonmbar but,) «
•Inngar whom I Etow knotrto Im Chailea Whitney, in
oMody of tlw ScrfMMt-at-AraM, c«U*d at my office
in Nnwich, in. the Siato of Vemcnt, intHdnced him-
«If b7 tile name of Whitaej, and infotmed im tbat ha
\ud aoiae bwan^fa of importance which he n ished to
conrene with me upon. I uked if he wi«hed to be in
phiata i he ngnified that he did. upon which mj clerk
withdtew ; and the raid Whitney proceeded to infonn
me (hat Iho buaineu of which he wished to convene
*u of great importance to lie public, as weD u to the
mdlTidualB imnediatelj concerned. That it would
come before Congreai, but wai *o drcoiastanced aa to
imder it necewary to make a prerious itstement to
nme of th« membon, that they might be able to ex-
plain to othen ; and the whole thereby be better pre-
^red ta jndgB upon the bnainan: be dedared.he
wadted for noOing improper, and that he did not want
diat I ahonld bvor the plan nnloa I raw it to tie con-
oMent : for he aaid he wantad nothing bnt what waa
perfectly jnat and bonorabla, ai^ waa conUent that if
the matter coold be nadcntiNid, it would appear to be
of gnM public ntili^. Ha tiiea Mated thai he and hii
anociatee had diMoveied ■ large and inuBeoael? vala-
■Ue tnct of land, between or contiguatw to lakea Brie,
Huron, and Michigan, (if I mistake not the namei,)
which he raid might bo purchaced of Uie Indiuu at a
low rale ; That this jnuchaM would conciliate the af-
kctiooa, and aaeure the friendihip of the hoatile tribes;
That he, the aaid Whitney, togethei with Ebeneier
Alien, Doctor RandalE, and a number of Canadian toer-
<banta at Detroit, had farmed an association for the
purpose of eitingnishing lie Indian title, and peti^n-
ing Congress for the pre-emption right to thooe lands;
that if they succeeded, it waa their intention immedi-
ately to make settlement on them: That those mer-
chants halt such iaflnenoe with, and eontnil o««t the
Indiana, that theie would be no difficulty with them ;
and that aueh a aattlemeM would be a barrier against
tbe wragasy anti e&etnally aectna peace to tlte United
States; That tboee merchanta were then employed in
Uke boaitkeaa ^nymg tbe fiifHan^ ; snd that his partner.
Doctor ""v**", ai^ hi* eibet associataa, tiad sack «aa-
Deiiona,thattlMra waa a fair prospect of success. That
it was not their intention, howeier, to engross sU this
pr^ieity to themseJYes ; but that it was to be divided
into a numbci of sharea, and that he and the said.Ran-
dall had the disposal of them. That he, tbesaid Wbit-
aej, was then dtfecUy from Philadelphia, and that it was
•greed that Randall should dispose of a part smongst
bu friends, arid the inSuential characters in the South-
mi Stslea; that ho, the midWhitney,waato distribute
tbe olber part amongst his, the ssid Whitney'i friends,
and lb« iufluentia] characters in Ae Eastern and Nor^-
*•!> States. That they had ahcady got a number en-
mad, but that the subscription was not filll, and
that I might become an adTODturer if I wished for
it 1 and as he ooncetted that I eoald make myself sc-
HUintsd with Ihe &els, they, the said sssodataa, would
°e aUs BO clesdy to damonatiate Ihe public utiM^ of
iha laMBwa, that there oould be do imprapriety id
being oonosmed in the bosinesa, ae [ aboiM Ibttttif
onlj eo^ieel my prftate interest with the puHIc good;
and while I was sdiandng the greatest intereat MT my
country, might put two or three thousand dollars into
my own pocket. Upon my suggesting, that, by a late
Treat! , a peace was already concluded with the bidian^
and that mis wss a business that might intolTe in it an
important national question, as, by de Treaty, theiight
of purchasing lands of the Indians, was reserved to the
United Slates, the said Whitney replied and said, diat
the Indiana were greatly dissatisfied with the Trea^,
and would not keep it; and that anodier war would be
the certain consequence, unless other measures were
sdopted. He then renewed the protestation of the pu>
ri^ of his intentions, and said that be conceived that
they (meaning himself and associates, as I understood
him) should so clearly evince the utili^ of the plan, aa
that there could be no doubt of its proprieQ' in the mind
of any well-wisher to his countiy ; and said, diat he
thought it would bo hard to suppose that members of
Congress were, In consequence of their appointment, to
be deprived of those advantages to acquire woper^
which m^ht be taken by others. The said Whitney
showed me a plan of the country, and the articles M
agreement between the associaies, which appear to be
the sane as have been read in Congien : he also said
mu<di upon the magnitude of the '3>)ect, in respect M
tiie sabseribeis and partners ; and though I cannot noiw
repeat his ei[»esaionB, yet I can truly assert, that 1
then claaity imdoiatood him, that if I would subaeribe
as a partner, my name might be kept secret, and aftet
the grant was obtained, if I chose to relinquish my share
in the lands, I might receive money in lien of it ;
though no specified sum wss mentioned, other than
has already been stated; and the converwtion finally
broke oO; u;pon my declaring that I would make no
engagement in the business, unti] I was better inlbnned
as to the merits of the question.
DANIEL BUCK.
JanirinT S, 1796.
It Tnui then inOved that Robert Randall should be
brought to the bar of the House. He wsi brought
in ftccoTtfiDf^ly. Seats were placed for the Jodge
of the Diitrict of PeDnsylvaDia,andlhe ti
letlora for Randall, Mr. Lewis and Mr. Tilgh-
naao, jr. The informalions Kivea in by Mr. W.
Smith, Mr. Mitbbat, and Mr. Oileb,
, and the SpEtSBn asked the prisoner, what
he bad to say in hii defence 1 I am not guillf.
You declare youi-self not guilty 1 Yes. Have yoa
any proof to cite that you are not guilty. Ho. Ar«
you ready lo answer.
Mr. Lewis Iheo rose. He obsarred, that these
deciaratioDS bad been made in the absence of the
prisoner, who, as he coQceived, was entitled to harg
been present. HisrequestwaB.that the infotmaotB
raieht now be placed in a situation lo be examin-
ed by the prisoner and his counsel, and that the
information may now be given in the prisoner's
liearing. The prisoner and his counsel were or-
dered to withdraw.
Mr. JBB&MiaH Smith made the following mo-
*■ That the priaoner be informed, that if he has any
queatioiis to propose to tbe informants, or other mon>-
ben of the Honae. ha is at Ubeity to put them, [in die
mode already pnaeribed,] and that they be sworn to
.dbyGoogle
807
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
R.]
Ca$e of RaadaU and Whitney.
fjAHSART, 1796.
Muwar nich queitioiu na iliall be aiked, ind thai tbe
iniormwiti be nroni to tile decUntiont just read."
The words in parenlhesis were an ameodroent
■aggesled by Mr. Gcleb. Tbe resolution and
aruendmeat were adopted by tbe House, and the
prisoner with his couasei were agaio brought to
the bar. The lesoluliouabore stated was read to
Randall.
Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Muhray, and Mr. Gilks,
were then sworn, standing up in their places : the
oBlb heing administered by the Judge.
Mr. Tilgbman then obserred, on the delicate sit-
nation in which the counsel stood, with which they
were sironjjly impressed. The high character of
the gentlemen who stood forth in support of the
(tccusalioti, gentlemen whom Mr. T. bad known
personally for many years, with the odious nature
of the crime charged on the prisoner, embarrass-
ed them considerably ;as they had, however, been
permitted by the House to appear in this business,
they were txtuud in duty to do every thing con-
sistent with a fair and honorable defence. If Mr.
T. were to declare his own opinion of the conduct
<^tbe prisoner, it would be thus, that his behaviour
iras highly improper and indelicate ; but Mr. Ran-
dall denied having made any offer either of land:
or money, as in fact he had none Co give. The
disposal of thelandsdepended entirely on the snb~
•eqnent vole of Congress.
Mr. Lewis spoke a few words. The prisoner'
defence was, that he denied any proposal of a
corrupt nature. The members who favored the
aale of the tands, were only to have their shares
on the same terms, and on paying an equal share
of tbe expenses, as the other partners.
Mr. W. Smith> was then examined upon that
part of his ipformation where he says, that those
members who should be concerned with Randall,
were (o have shares of the lands. Mr. Smctf
asked whether tbe offer was that thev wfre
granted at an inferior rate 7 In reply, he under-
•tood ii was to be on the same termsas other parl-
Bflrs were to have them. Mr. Goodbue proposed
a query, whether the offer made by Mr. Randall
WBJ in order that Mr. Smith might use his influ-
ence lo forward the scheme in Congress? Mr.
SiiiTit replied, that he certainly understood it so.
The prisoner had all along referred to members
of Congress, though he did not expressly name
them. Hin phrase was, ''for persons who would
favor the scheme."
Mr. Tilgbman then, through the Speaiir, ask-
ed Mr. Mdrhav, whether be understood he was
to pay for his share of land as tbe other
Mr. MuHBAV. — I understood him as is explained
in the declaration. At first I understood, that the
members who should assist in geitiuE tbe thins
through, might then retire to their homes, and
when the scheme was ld activity they might come
in on the same terms as the original associates.
But afterwards, I understood from Randall that
I misht have a share if I would accept of it, and
this 1 understood from the whole tenor of the tatter
part of hia couTemtion. The shares set span
collect this lo be the man's meaning froma variety
Mr. Murray.— He did not say, if you will do
so and so, 1 will give you so and so ; his proposal,
though more delicate, was as unequivocal as a di-
rect offer. I soundecstood him.
Mr. HAHFEBa^ed Mr. Morrav, whether Ran-
dall did not tell him, that if he did uol like land,
be should have money, and whether the money
was not to be more than die ralus of the share of
Undl
Mr. Mdrhay said, that from this part, and in-
deed the general tenor of the conversation, he did
infer, that a donation was intended, and when he
objected to land, the prisoner then said, if he did
not choose to accept of a share in land, he might
have cash in hand.
Mr. Lewis, counsel for the prisoner, asked Mr.
Mdhray, whether he did not stale lo Randall hia
aversion to dealing in land, and whether Randall
did' not say that ibis need not be en objection,
since the share might be sold, and then that he
would have cash instead of land 1
Mr. MoBBAY. I did not so understand it.
Mr. Habfer wished Mr. Mvrrav to relate, as
nearly as possible, tbe words of the priscneriD this
important part of tbe conversation.
Mr. Mdrray said, that immediately after it
took place, and he had communicated it to hb
friends, he took notes of it. It stood in this man-
ner: " I stated objections to land apecutations aa
troublesome: Randall thensaid,if Ididnoi choose
land, I mieht have cash in hand."
Mr. Ti^hman asked, whether Mr. MtrBBAY,
did not, to get the man's whole secret from him,
go beyond his views to draw him on 1
Mr. Murray said, he affected to think well of
the more sound part of the plan.
Mr, Tilgbman asked what Mr. Mdhbay ex-
pressed to Randall when it was proposed to him
to engage in the land scheme?
Mr. Mdrray. A strong repugnance to land spec-
ulations.
Mr. Lewis. Then it wna, he said, that if it was
not convenienlfor Mr. MtiRBAV tobe concerned in
a share in land, he might have it in money 1
Mr. MoHBAY. Yes.
Mr. S. Smith, was next sworn. There was
here a motion made for adjourning.
Mr. Lewis slated that Mr. Tilgbman and him-
self bad never seen the prisoner until yesterdsvio
the evening. They bad been ino Court until late
on Saturday evening. They went yeMerday to
prison, and back again this morning. They had
— -lived a long written state of the case from Mr.
idall, but, from absolute want of time, they had
been able to read one third pert of it. The
motion to adjourn was negatived.
Mr. S. Smith was then proceeding with his evi-
lence when Mr. Sedgwick row. He considered
t as unfair to examine Mr. SMi-ra in order to
prove the information given by other gentlemen.
.dbyGoogle
fflSTOBT OF CONGRESS.
JlKDlBT, 1796.]
Com of Randda and Whitwy.
[H.orR.
Il was totally ioapidicable. The offcDces were as
distinct as any two things conld be.
Mr. Bloditt mo red to put this question,
whelheT any coDTersation passed between Mr. B.
Shith anil Randall, whieli had an appearance of
blending to eorropl the integrity of members of
this House T
Mr. Sedgwick objected, that this was derialing
from ibe original specific moiion. Mr, Giles was
of an opposite opinion. Mr. Masibon thought the
motion proper, m the atricteat sense. The charge
was general ; and the answer to the question
might be of a lature to corroborate tfast general
cbarge. After a few words from someotbei: mem-
ber^ the motion wis carried.
Mr. Sm ith, of Maryland, then on oath slated in
nibitance as follows:
That on the 9th or 10th, Randall whom he had
known in Maryland, called on him and asked half
an hoar's conTersation with him. He said he had a
plan in Tiew, that would be to the adtantage of
the United States, and turn to his own pnrate
emolument.
Randall informed Mr. 8., that he was last rear
■I New York, thai he thence went to Detroit to
explore the country on lakes Erie, &c., that he
contracted an acquaintance with certain influen-
tial characters with whom he had formed an asso-
ciation to procure the lands in question. He men-
tioned the outlines of the nlan and dwelt on the
public advantages that would arise from it. He in-
directly iniinuated that gentlemen in Congress
who chose to be interestedin the plan mighthaTe
a portion of the land in contemplation. He asked
Mr. 8. to fix a day when he should enter more
particularlyintoadetailof the business. Mr. S.,
filed Saturday following, and then retired into
the room where his fellow lodger was, and told
him that some great land business was on foot and
that he beliered he might make his fortune. On
Sunday Randall came with a map on which he
explained the position of the land and expatiated
on the richness of the soil. He detailed the partic'
nlars of the project which Mr. S. related as has
been heretofore stated with some little variations.
He enlarged upon the public advantages to the
United Slates if the purchase was allowed. He
said, he would be glau if Mr. B. would embark in
the undertaking, and give the plan his counten-
ance; but. that, if he did not choose to so do, it
could be accomplished without his assistBnce,a9 a
decfded majority of both Houses were agreed to
support it. Mr. 8. asked him, whether in the Sen-
ate? he said, yes. He asked him for names, he ob-
jeeied to mentioning any. Randall explained,' that
members who were most active were to have
larger shares, am) such as only gave iheir assent,
•taallei; Mr. S, understood that he might have
oae of the larger. No money was offered as a
temptation to engage, but he fully understood that
every gentleman was topayhisfull proportion of the
Kice. He slated to Mr. 8., that it would save the
niied Btatet much in men and money to have
the scheme accomplished and added, that if Cou-
g«»j desired it, he could remove the Miami In-
ouiutotbaotberifdeofthetaket. Mr. 8. a^ed
him what he proposed should be offered for tbv
lands. He sain, thai would remain in the breasts
of the gentlemen in Congress. Mr. S. asked
whether one dollar an acre could be afforded, he
objected to that as by far too much. Mr. S. men-
tioned twenty-five cents, that was too much. Mr>
9. then suggested that he supposed two and a half
cents were contemplated. Randall answered, that
if Confess fixed this price it would he well so.
He oTOred no direct brit« to Mr. S., but proposed
to take such members into the scheme at first coat
as chose to embark in it. Mr. S. asked him who
was to offer his memorial. He mentioned a gen-
tleman of great weight in the House.
Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, asked the date ot
this conversation.
Mr, SM[TH,of Maryland, answered, on the 8tm-
day following the lOtn, which must have been the
13th.
Mr. Lewis, through the Speaker asked Mr. 8.,
of Maryland, whether Randall had not said, that
he had actually a majority in favor of his scheme ;
or, that he expected to get a majority 1
Mr. Smith, of Maryland, understood that he had
a majority, and on this ground, he said to Mr. 8.
that bis co-operation was not absotulely necessary.
The prisoner was remanded and the House
adjourned.
Tdebdat, January 5.
CASE OF ROBERT RANDALL.
After disposing of the morning business —
Robert Randall was then brought to the bar,
atlendedbyhb twocouDsel; the Judge of the Dis-
trict of Pennsylvania likewise took his seal, as
yesterday, at the Clerk's table. The Speaker
then addressed the prisoner as follows: "Robert
Randall, this is the day and hour, to which your
farther examination was postponed ; you are now
at liberty to proceed with your defence."
Mr. Giles then moved that Mr. Christib
should be sworn. This was done. The member
then stated that he had been at Philadelphia, about
the month of October last. He met wmi Mr.
Randall, who made up to him, and observed that
he had this Summer been in Canada. He had
missed the object tor which he went; hnt he had
met with another which he thought would prove
advantageous. He at first advised Mr. Randalllo
apply toihe Secretary of State. Mr. Randolph-
had just then resigned his office; and no other
person was appointed in bis stead. Mr, C. then
advised him to lay the affair before the PREsinBHT.
When he came naek to town at the sitting down
of Congress, Randall came again to him, and said
that by good advice he had altered his plan. He
complained that Mr. C, was the only member who
had not been ready to assist him, A considerable
majority of the House of Representatives were
secured to the scheme. Mr, C. said, that he never
would advise Congress to sell their lands under a
dollar per acre ; and as Mr, Randall wanted the
landn so mnch cheaper he must in the course of
his duly oppose the plan, Mr. C. inquired who
were his advisers. He answered, that Mr Whit-
.dbyGoogle
HiSTORT OF CX)NGRESe.
RoF.R.]
Cote vf Jiandall and ffhitneg.
[Jancarv, 1706.
iHf had told bim that Mr. Sedqwicx recomiaeiirf-
ed thiB vrvf at proceeding, and was to draw up a
memorial to be laid befote tbe House upon (he
subject.
Mr. SEi>ew[cK finding his name thus luieipect-
edif iniroduced, wished to be allowed to give oath
in order that he should tell ell he knew.
The oath was adminiatered to Mr. Sbdowicic,
who gave intormalioD to (he following effect : He
had never in his life seen Randall, tilfhe was pro-
duced at the bar. Whitney he had seen two oi
thfee limes. The Mr. Jones mentioned by Whit-
ney, in his declaration, lives within aboot thirty-
four miles of Mi. Bedgwiok'h house. Whitney,
with Mr. Jones, came, a considerable time ago, to
him one morning, while he was b( breakfast. The j
aaked bis opinion ; which was, that Grovemment
would not sell any lands, till the Indian claim was
first extinguished. Mi. Jones endeavored to con-
vince Mr. SuDowicE of the benefits which would
result to the United States from this sale. Mr.
Sedqwick accompanied them to the door of his
house, where Mr. Jones a:iked him whether there
would be anything improper in a member of the
Legislature being concerned in such a purchase 1
Mr. Sedowick said, that this would depend entire-
Koa the mode of application. If it ^?as to the
md Office, there would be nothing wrong in it ;
if to Congress, then it would be a man making a
bargain with himself Whitney, since Mr. Sedq-
wick came to town, had called two or three times
on him. He got his servant, for more than once,
to deny him, as he was busy. Once, however,
he did see him; the first question of Mr. Sedo-
wioK was, from what State did become? He laid
he resided in Vermont. He then spoke of the
matter in a general way ; and Mr, Sedgwick,
whose object U was to snake him off, advised his
caUing on Mr. Bdce, a member frotn that State,
ta it would be more proper to call on him. Mr,
Sedowick believed th»t ne w^ more leazed with
applications of this private kind than any member
in the House. During tbe conference with Whil-
aey, be did not remember that Randall's name
was ever introduced. Mr, Sedowick heard, with
astonishment, tbe name of Colonel Pepune men-
tioned. He lived opposite to Mr. Sedowick's
house, in the town of Stockbridee. He rode down
from that [daoe to New York, along with Mr.
Skdowick, and never spoke one word of the mat'
Randall had, among other stories, told Mr. Sa-
muel Smith that Mr. Wm. Skith ihouid bring
foTwa,rd this Und business, in the House. He po-
sitively said so to Mr. S. Smitb on the 13th t^
December, aud it would be proved that he had
never eKchanged a word with Mr. W. Smith, nor
ever seen him tilt the 22d of that mouth, viz: odout
lune dayi ajter. This is the substance of a short
explanation which took place between smne of the
memberi, after Mr. Sedowick had ended his de-
claration. Mr. W. Si([TH then asked RaodaU,
whether it was not true, that he spoke to Mr. Sa-
HOEL SauTB before he spoke to himselfl Mr.
Tilgbman, in reply, said that he was authorized to
uuwer in the affirmative. This puts to rest the
muopei
itilled to
story related l^ Baadatl to the member from Bal-
timore,
The testimony being now closed, Mr. Tilgh-
man asked leave to make some remarks in defence
c^ the prisoner. He recapilulnted the charges.
They divided into two beads. The firsL was aa
attempt to corrupt members. The second, wa»
his having said that tbifty members of the House
of Representatives had engaged to favor hi*
scheme. If the first head was not proved iu the
fulle8( manner, then it would be entirely it
to punish the prisoner at all; for he i;
(he strictest justice. i
Mr. T. began with the charee of corruption,
which led him to take a view of toe circumstances
that gave rise to this subject, the journey of Ran-
dall to Canada, last Summer, liie associatioa for
buyiug the Peninsute between Lakes Erie, Hu-
ron, and Michii^an, the proposal of eitingaishing
the Indian daim, the scheme of foity-onc shaii-s,
with maay other particulars. Xn the plan itself,
there was nothing exceptionable, provided that
it was fairly pursued. It was at first view cleai.
that other assistance would be wanted, besides
the persons subscribing tbe Bisocialim. Five or
six private individuals were altogether unequal
to grasping so imireuse an object Accordingly,
RaDdall first applied to Mr. Cbbibtie. From tlia
declaration of that gentleman, it appeared that no
offer was made to him either of land or money.oi
any improper overture, for Mr.CuaiaTiE bad so lit-
tle suspicion of foul play, that he afterwards gave
a letter of introduction to another member to ex-
plain tbe sul»ect. Randall had next amilied suc-
cessively to Mr. Samcel Smith, toMr. GiLEa,Mr.
William Smith, and Mr. Mdbbav. From proba-
bility, independent of the proof which Mr. T. was
about to examine, he argued that nobody but a
madman would have attempted to bribe Ave gen-
tlemen of respectable charecteis,andof indepeiul-
ber of Congress, see no impropriety in being con-
cerned, we shall willingly accept you ; but, if yon
do not think i( right, we do not ask yoiu aid, for
we can do without you." These were the iden-
tieal wordi of Randall, as attested by the honor'
able member to whom they were addressed. There
vras no guilt here. It was the genuine language
of innocence. Mr. Samuel Sm[tb said, that Ran-
dall had told him that Mi. William Smith ahmiid
bring the matter forward. By this, Randall pltunly
signified, that he expected Mi, Wiluah Smith to
' so, and Mr. S. Smith had mistaken the suppo-
on for an affirmation. The fourth gentleman,
the order of application, was Mr. William
Shitb ; and there was not one of the first four
gentlemen who said that any direct pionosal vras
made to him. They onlv uoderstood and inferred
But a man is not to oe convicted on the infer-
:es, impiessions, and ideas, of witnesses. It
luld, m a Court of Law, cost Mr. T. but a very
few words, indeed, to establish this point. A wit-
ness was only to relate facts. The jury were to
make inferences, and form conclusions. Every
of tbe four gentlemen had expressly decluM
.dbyGoogle
S13
H18T0BY OP GONGHESS.
JtscuT, 1796,3
Ccm <f Randall and Whitiuf.
that ibcie w&s no explicit offer DWdetohim. Had
RandaU «&id : " Oive me four vote, aod yon ^all
haTe so mkny dollars, or bo many acres for it." the
Mcbaadoo of bribery irould have b«en fully es-
labbshed. But we find do EDch thiog. The offer
was improper, indelicate, and iodecealin the high-
est degree, but no direct offer was made, and none
eovld be made, till the Uir passed. The lands
were, by the toA»esl estimate, to coat five hundred
thoomnd doltars of pnrchase money, besides the
expaue of extinguiBtiinK the Indian claim, and
many other previons cnarg^es, before anything
eovld be made of the specaution. Thus, each i^
the forty-one shares would require, in advance, a
Tery lar^ STim of money. There mighi evcD be
a has upon the business, instead of a gain. AFter
adTerting to the evidence of the four first gentle-
men, Mr- T. came nexi to Mr. Mdbrat. He seems
to give the most heavy aeensaiion against the pti-
soner ; bnt Mr. T. was ready to rest the oiiuse of
bis clienL his good name, or his infamy, on prov-
ing that Mr. MoftRAY had mistaken bis JDeaaing.
In the first place, by the account of thai gentle-
man, twenty 'four shares out of the forty-one. were
to be at tlte acceptance at members, which had
been conceived as if they were to be given gratu-
itously. The donation was to come out of these
tfairty-MX shares, reserved for Randall and Whit-
Bey I and it was too immense, in proportion to the
'wbote shetes, to have admitted any chance of pro-
fit to these two people, on the twelve remaining
sbarei. For this inference, Mr. T. appealed to
the candor and judgment of every gentleman
aritiiin his hearing. The thing being tlius, in its
oim nature, incredible, would, of coune, require
the highest degree of evidence to snoport it. It
hwl been firoved that no direct offer oftnia had been
■■nde to other members. They understood that
tbcM shares were to be paid for, in proportion
nlong with the other partners, in the sale. This
ivms another reason for thinking that the member
'waw misiaken. Messrs. William and Samcel
Saarra, and Mr. Giles, had unanimously declared,
that they were to pay for their shares 1 Upon the
qnestioD being put to Mr. W. Suits, he answered :
**1 mder^toodthat those should pay upon the foot-
ing of the orifrinai axsoeiators." Mr.OiLae, onthis
ponL had relied thus: "No direct offer was mode
him m land. The proposition was general, as re~
lated to members of Congress, who would favor
Ae scheme. He considered himself as included ;
but, then, all were to come in on paying their pro-
portions.'' Afarn, Mr. Samubl Shitb declared,
that Randall "offered no direct bribe to him, but
proposed to take iniotheschemejat 6rTt cost, such
members as chose to embark in it." These three
lestimonies clearly established, that Randall had
sol thodfht erf" any gratuitous offer to these gen-
tlemoi. Mr. T. could account for the mistake of
fgj j/jjgjtAT. He had heard bam. Mr, W. Smith
oflheiiiaa,utd his proposals; and that they were
gatmated to be of a corrupl nature. While his
miuiMii filled vrith these impressions Randall
Sd^ him, but had so little dread of ks being
__™ a nimioBl errand, that he made no scruple
2^^^^Uie ■ubjectbehwe Mr. HaFEY, a Senator
who happened accidenialty to be in the room-
Mr. MoRRAT took him into a private room, for the
purpose of sifting him; and there it was that he
disclosed the unsound part of his scheme.
By the word accept, Mr. T. insisted that, while
Mr. MuaRAV understood a donation, Randall could
only mean a share, as offered to other members.
Where had Randall cash in hand to have laid
down 1 [Randall was not long since insolvent.]
Now, could he give perhaps twenty or thirty thou-
sand dollars in hand, for the vote of a member?
The word accept, as coming from Randall, only
meant, " you shall have a share on the same terms
as others; and if you do not choose to have a share,
we will sell your share of the lands for yon, and
you may get the profit made by the sale." Here
Mr. T. quitted the first head of the charge, by ez-
Sressing his hopes that no satisfactory proofs of
irect bribery had been offered. He was bappy
to live in a country whose legislators possessed
so much delicacy. The second nead of the charge-
was, Randall having said that thirty members of
the House of Representatives were to favor his
scheme. The Counsel apprehended that this was
no breach of privilege. He turned to the laws of
the United States, and read over every passage
regarding the privileges of the House and its mem-
bers. Nothing was to be found which could even
remotely apply to this kind of conversation. He
then went into the subject of practice in the Eng-
lish House of Commons. There were no journals
further back than the reign of Edward VI. Black-
stone says, that Parliament never chose to define
its privileges, lest afterwards a new case might
ah.'ie that did not come within their rules, and then
ibeir ground against the offender might be fore-
closed. Cantion, in that respect, might be neces-
sary in England, but not in the United States,
where the House of Representatives are the dar-
ting of the people. They have nothing to fear as
to any undue advantage being taken ofa defect in
their rules. Besides, it by do means follows that,
because the privileges of the House of Commons
extend to a certain degree, this country will bear
the same extent of privileges in their Representa-
tives. The idea of the Counsel was, that the
House had the privilege eBsentiai to Its existence
to defend itself from any insult from within or
from without, bnt not further. The Constitution
says nothiag of privilege, that reaches to the case
of the prisoner ; and one of the amendments to it,
says, that ihe peojde shall be understood to have
retained whatever they have not granted. It
fellows, then, that since what has 'been expressly
Cted reaches not to Randall, that it is retainea.
in coDteroplatioo to prosecute this man in a
Court of Law. With what feelings must he be
supposed to go there, if he shall be previously con-
demned in this House? A man would thlis in
fact be convicted in the nublic view, before his
trial began. The Counsel then read a number of
precedents from English books of law, to prove
that, even for a direct offer of bribery to a mem-
ber of Parliament, the prisoner would have been
remitted to the Attorney General, and prosecuted
with the usual and indispensable si^emnities, in a
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
Owe of Raadatl and WMlnej/.
[J"
r,1796.
this? The member* are not upon oath, while
they are at aace parties, jud^s, B.ad witnesses.
Mr. T. would hare thought it more delicate for
the House lo leave the prisoner to a trial in the
common form. He may be acquitted by a jurv,
«i)er beios coDdemoed here, which may produce
disagreeable feelings in the public mind. It is, in
reality, trying h prisoner twice for the same of-
fence, and making him hazard a doubiu ::L'T<.tt'ncc.
AU this is inconsistent with every idea of justice.
The offence was punishable a( Common Law.
What good reason can then be given for trying it
here 1 The safety of the House is not in danger.
Thiols not a case, wherein they ought to insist on
C'triUge. A thousand reasons might be adduced,
ides those stated by the Counsel, why it was
inexpedient 10 bring ihe subject here. TQe privi-
leges of an English Parliament rested on imme-
morial usage; those of this House, on a written
Constitution, which had considerably narrowed
them, in comparison with those of British Parlia-
ments. The charge of haring thirty or forty
members engaged to support a scheme is not a
breach of priTiEege. Mr. T. argued that, from ibe
rery face of the charge, as worded by tne House,
no crime arises. Are the House to bridle conver-
sations without doors? When a bill comes into
the House, is it not common for the people to say
that such a law will pass, or it will not pass ? Are
tbev not at liberty to conjecture what members
will vote for it, or against it? Randall's story
about thirty members comes within this descrip-
tion. Are the House to lock up the mouths of
people? Mr. T. closed, by urging that, as Rao-
dall was to be tried by a Court of Law, as he had
been taken out of the hands oi an officer beloiig-
ing to a Court of Law, upon what authority the
Counsel did not see, the best thing which coujd be
done, was to retnit him to the ordinary form of
trial.
Mr. Lewis then rose. He read the charge, as
adduced by the House, and agreed that this was
not bribery, but a wild land-jobbiog scheme. He
objected to the having admitted subsequent deposi-
tions and informations in support of a charge pre-
riously made and specified. This alludes to the
subsequent evidence given by some members af-
ter the prisoner had received a copy of the charge.
He contended that the evidence of Mr. Saudel
SuiTH. given subsequently, had no connexion
with tne original charge, and should not hare
been admitted in corroboration of it. Mr. L.
then took up the second point of the charge,
that the prisoner had said thirty or forty members
would favor his scheme. The saying so waa no
offence at all ; for the thing itself, the agreeing lo
support a particular scheme, was consistent with
perfect innocence. He trusted that the prisoner
would be as safe in this House as anywhere else ;
that his unalienable rights would be as sacredly
watched ; for it would be a dreadful rellection if
that House were less delicate in administering jus-
tice, than Courts of Law. He hoped that the
House would adiiere to these fundamental rules of
trial, which had stood the test of ages. He then
read some of the articles of the bond between the
original partners, to show the absurdity of sup-
posing thai bribery ever cohld have been mtended.
It was impossible to have ever bribed members ia
the way alleged by Mr. MnRHAv. He stated that, -
out of forty-ons shares, Whitney and Randall were
to have thiny-sii, out of which they were to give
away twenty-four ; a pioporlion in itself incredi-
ble, inasmuch as the remaining twelve stuirea
would, so far from miiking their fortunes, have
cost them more than they were worth. Mr. L.
then argued on the offer to Mr. Mubrav, on the
same ground as the former Counsel. The plain
history of the affair was this : A number of people
wanted the lands. They thought that it would
accelerate tbeii scheme to get members of Con-
gress lo embark in it, and offered them, for this
effect, a share in the lands, on payinff an equal
share of the expenses, and with a promise of con-
cealing their names. " If the gentlemen," said
Mr. L., '''to whom this application was made, had
kicked my client ouioj the roam, they would have
served him right ; and there, 1 think, that the mat-
ter ought to have ended." The British Parlia-
ment send people attempting bribery to the Attor-
ney General. They send people to a trial by jury.
Ml. L. denied that any part of this offence came
within the detinitiun of corruption, or the reach
of law. He had no conception that it could b«
punished upon any le^al principle whatever. Be-
sides, there was nothing in the history of privi-
leges, like thus dragging a mau from the jurisdic-
tion of the Circuit Court, by whom he bad been
apprehended, and whose prisoner he was. A^io,
there could be a breach of privile^ only, if the
Croposal regarded a bill actually betore the Hotise.
t never could arise from a thins not in existence.
Ail the books which Mr. L. had consulted, spoke
only of bribery, about a hill or a lawsuit actually
on hand. It was hazardous to quote precedents
from an English Fartiameot. Its privileges had
no limits, so that some writers on law (»lled it
omntpoten/. Mr. L. admitted that the House had
the essential power of punishing violence, or open
insult, which did not reach the case before them.
He would not further intrude on the lime of the
House, by apologisiitg for the time which he had
taken up already. He trusted that a power of
creating offences would not be assumed ; and that
a thing which is not illegal, will not be declared
punishable.
Mr. Lewis here sat down. The further defence
of [he prisoner was postponed till to-morrow,
(Wednesday,) at twelve o'clock.
And then the House adjourned.
WenKEBDAY, January 6.
CASE OF HOBEKT RANDALL.
Mr. Seoowick laid before the House some ad-
ditions to bis evidence, delivered yesterday. He
gave in a written copy of the whole, and wished .
that it rnigbl be added to the declaration already
made. The paper was read, and, OQ motion, or-
dered to be inserted in the Journals. Mr. okdo
.d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Jahdaby, 1796.]
Ctue of BtmdaU and Whiinei/.
[H.ofR.
wtcK said he had yeslerdar mentioned CiA. Pe-
pnoe l>eiDg in Philadelphia, but he had not seen
nim. He has since done lo. The Colonel lodges
«t the sign of the Drorer, in Third street, ai '
readf, when colled upon br the House, to
-'-cumstance which he knows about the
a of Randall or Whitney.
Adam*, in that State, waited on him uiJ mtmduced
him a man whom ha now knows hj the name of Cbarlaa
Whitney, of the State of Vennont That Mr. Jonw k
a nan of reapectable character, a maginiale, a member
of the State Legiatature, (aa the informant belieTea,}
and a tmitee of the Corporation of Wiiliama CoUege.
That Mr. Jones informed the informsnl that he, with
othaia, had in contemplation an application to Congresa
bra gnat of a tract of country lying between die Lakes
HoTOQ, Midugan, and Erie. CoonderatiaDS of a pub-
Be nature hating been stated and enlarged upon, the
OjBnion of the inbimant was reqaeated relatire to the
propiietr and succeaa of the ptopoaed application. He
answered, in subatance, that he believed it waa to be
Isabted whether the Legislature would andertake ao-
tnally to contiael fcr any of the Tacant public land*, and
that the doubt waa atill ■trongar respecting theae tanda,
the Indian daim to whicjt bad not been prerioudy ei-
linguiihed. He itated lo Mr. Jonea that, by reason of
■cknesB in his fiunily, it waa not probable he ahoold al-
letid the neit aeaajon of Cougreas ; at all eTonls, how^
«nr, he advised Mr. Jones not lo make an early appli-
alioDiBs it WBB probable the subject of disposing of the
pablic landa would occupy the attention of Congress
daring the then Nisuing aesaion ; sod that, by the de-
lay, Mr. Jones could form a more correct judgment of
die course which it would be mon eligible for ^<'" to
pmsoe ralatiie to this subject. Tbat, while the inform-
ant was waiting on Mr. Jones to the door, at his de-
parture, Mr. Jonea aaked him if there coald be any im-
pnpiiety in a member of Congreas being concerned in
an ap[^tion for a grant of landa 1 The informant
•nawvred, that it would depend on the drcnmstances
nnder which the api^cation was made : proper, if the
application was made to a Land Office, bat otherwise,
if made lo the Legislature; because, in the latter eaae,
it would be for a man to contract with himadt To this
answer Mr. Jonss gave an eipLdt assent. That the
infonoant never, at any time, before or afterwards, to
hia remembnnce, saw the said Whitney, untU he saw
him in thia dty, during ths present seesion. That the
informant came &i>n hia oim home to New York in
company with Colonel Pepune, itated by die said Whit-
ney as one of his aasodatea. That the infoimanl bath
been informed, and believes that the said Pepune is now
in this dty, but thst he had never spoken to the in-
formant on the subject of the said land apeculation.
That, not lonf after Ibe arrival of the inlbnnant in diia
city, the said WUtney one moniing waited on him, and
stated to him an intradad memorial respecting the tract
of land aforesaid, and urged on the consideration of the
informant the motives of a puMic nature for a grant
dieiwif. That the informant inquired of the aaid Whit-
ney to what Stale be belonged 1 and being answered,
lo Veimont, be raconunended lo him to request the Be-
mesentaCivea of that Stale ti
That the said Whitney requeatad the infonnant to pe-
ruae hia memorial, when it should be lurspaied, which
he undeiBlood was not then the case. That he answer-
ed, according to hia best recollection, that, whenever he
had leisure, he should be willing to do it j or to that
effect. That the whole time of the uitarview he be-
lievea did nof eiceed >ii, he is very confident could not
exceed ten, minutes. That twice afterwards the in-
formant's servant informed him that the said Whitney
wished lo see him, and that he cauaed himself lo be de-
nied ; and the mfoimant is vary confident he never un-
dertook dther to draft or preaant any memorial for the
said Whitney.
"On the morning of the twenty.«t^hth of Deeomber,
Mr. Smith, of Soatti Carolina, informed the informant
of what he afterwards stated in evidence to the Houae
respecting Robert Randall. The informant advised Mr.
Smith, aa aoiHi as possible, to make the same kuoam to
the House of Representativea, whicb Mr. Smith inBirm-
ed the infonnant he had deteimined to do ; and the in-
formant, having previously advised the said Whitney to
' to the Representatives of Veimont, he thought it
ipplTt<
Ilia dut;
portu-
nity lo request Mr. Smith, of that Slate, to
senlJDg any memorial with which he might be intnist-
ed f(» a grant of land, and desired him to make the
same request to Mr. Buck, the other member from the
same State.
" The informant Airther declarea, that he never, to Ids
remembrance, saw Robert Randall, till he saw him at
the bar of the House.
"THEODORE SEDGWICK."
Mr, W. Smith submitted, whether it would be
proper to proceed any farther jn the case of Ran'
dall, till some hearing had been given to Whiine]^.
Mr. RuTHEHFonn was happy to find the busi-
ness drawing to a conclusion, and that the charac-
ter of ibe servants of the peoide would come
through it pure, in the yiew ot every unbiased
mind. The grounds of the whole matter were
plain enough. Some British Traders wanted to
secure the lands between the lakes lo themselves,
and the traffic with the Indians. They made dupes
of these two men; and then the latter attempted
CO dupe the Representatives of the people. These
circumstances were in the nature of things. They
might be traced lo that immense keenness for
landed speculation so common in America. Ran-
dall had run the gaunilet very well. He had been
through the hands of the civil officers. He had
also been in the hands of another set of gentlemen,
who, as Mr, RutUerfobd judged, had canduci-
ed themselves with great propriety. The charac-
ter of the House was fairlv cleared, at which Mr.
R. was happy. He wished Randall to be now
sent for, to receive a reprimand from the Speak-
er, and then be sent back to a short confinement,
perhaps for a day or two. Then let him go, with-
out further loss of time. Some people have
thought that it was wrong to have pushed the in-
quiry. This opinion was erroneous; but now,
since we have got honorably over with il, let the
man be set ofl*.
It was then moved by a member that the case
of Randall should be postponed. After some con-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Que of. Satidaa am2 Whiinef.
[Jawdabt, 179ft.
•"sr
r. Harpek then read two resolotiona. Of the
fintt, the fallowing is the substance :
" Suobud, Thai anj attempt to inf UBOce the con-
doetofthis Hotue, or its memben, on gnlijMta apper-
taining to tlieii LegiilatiTe fiinctionR, by motiTM other
than the public advantage, is an high contempt of this
Hooae, and a breach of iti privilege*."
The second reaolution was, in substance, (tut
Randali having committed such an offence, was
gailty of sach a oontempt, Ac.
Mr. Harper thought it proper, before deciding
aa to Randall, to lay down oeicain principles, and
decide whether the offence was in itself criminal
OT not, before determining the conduct of the pri-
Mr. KtTORiiL tbOD^t these resolutitms utrne-
ecBiary. The only thing before the House wss to
coll on the pTisoner,and proDonnce him either m-
noeent or guilty.
Mr. Harpeh, in defence of his resolutions, said,
that one misfortune attending privileges was, that
tbey could not be exactly' defined ; but, as far as
they could be ascertained, it was the business of
the House to do so. If this offence is a breach of
privilege, we are entitled to declare it such, that
the people of the United States may be iofarmed
that it is so.
Mr. W. Smitb could not conceive how any
member would vote against this first resolution.
If we refuse to say that the act itself is a crime,
how can we condemn Randall aa criminal 7 We
are, in every sense of the word, bound to vote for
the proposition. We have declared the attempt
of Ranaall to be an high offence and contempt. If
any member thinks it not so, then, to be sure, fae
will vote asainst it. Mr. Suitb said that Legisla-
tive bodies had frequently, while a prisoner was
on trial before them, laid down rules to guide
them, previous to their pronouncing sentence. A
former member had suggested that it was better to
make the resolution a preamble to the !«ntence,
and introduce it with a vkereat. As it stands
at present, it is agreeable to what had been done
Mr. Nicholas hoped that members were not to
be bound by anything yet done. At the first em-
barking of the HoQse in this affair, he had felt
doubts. His scruples had gradually augmeuted,
and he was row of opinion that Randali should
not have been meddled with at alL in the present
way. The right of privilege had been given up,
unless in cases of abaolute necessity, tie did not
think that any resolution had yet passed the House,
upon due consideration, whetner they had a rieht
to proceed or noL Mi. NiCBOt.Aa recommended
lenity, rather than a parade of integrity, where
there iras no ground of suspicion — a piraae which
would not have been made il there nad been any
real danger.
Mr. Williams thought the resolutions alto-
lo do is to declare Randall guilty
Mr. HiLLBODtE agreed with Mr. WtLLUHS,
the gentleman from Virginia. We bad been ti
yesterday, at the bar, that the offence is not pun-
ishaUe by the common law. We are not to do lo
be proper to tell this to the public. Any
body may then come here and bid for rote*.
Mr.HiLLHonsE thought ihat the counsel yester-
day had fairly givenup the point, for they admitted
that impropei violence without doors was abresch
of privilege. Mr. H. argaed that this was as ^eat
a violence as could be. He was for inflicting K
punishment.
Mr. LiviNQBTpN thought the wording of Ae
first clause too broad. Any member iipokeit to
without doors might come into the House and
complain of a breach of privilege on trifliof
grounds.
Mr. Giles would not at present enter into the
question whether there had been a breach of pri-
vilege or not. From anything yet seen, he waa
doubtful. He was against the preamble. Privi-
lege was of an insinuating nature, Mr. Liviho-
BToH had taken up a thought which occurred to
Mr. Giles. Any man meeting on the street a
member of this House, may say to him, " Sir, by
voting for such a thing in the House, vou will de-
stroy your popnlaiily m your district." This ar-
gument was not on motives of pablic good, and a
member might by this resolution be warranted
lo come into the HoBse and complain of il as a
breach of privilege. He wished for the previous
question, which was taken, and by a great bajori-
ty the resolution was negatived.
Mr. LiviNasTon then read two resolutions.
Their teuor was that it appears to this Hoase
that Robert Randall hai; been ^ilty of a contempt
and a breach of the privileges of this House, by
attempting to corrupttheintegiity of its members,
in the manner laia to his curse, and that Ran-
dali should be called up to the nar, reprimanded
by the Speaker, and recommitted to custody, till
further orders from this House.
On the first resolution the yeas and nays wei«
called for — yeas 78, nays 17.
After some eonveraattoii, the second resolatico
was likewise agreed to.
Randall was then brought to the bar, and in a
few words reprimanded \>j the Spsakkr. Toeall
his offence indiscretion, impropriety, or inddica-
cyj was too mild a name. His conduct was
crime. His apparent irnoranee of the nature and
extent of his guilt had induced die House to be
more indulgent than they otherwise would have
been. The Speaker informed him that he was
recommitted to custody till ihrtber orders from the
House.
Mr. Cbbibtie thai asked leave to have bis writ-
ten declaration entered in the Journals, which was
agreed to, in the words following:
" Th« dedaiation rf Gabrisl (Christie is, that some
time in the month of October or November list, this in-
fbrmuit ns in Philadelphia, when he row Hobert Ran-
daB, nho had, m be infonned this infoimant, Jnst re-
tmaed fimn Canada, where be bad been diiq^ramted
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
jArtOARY, 1796.]
Ciut of RtmdaO, and Whitney.
in the bnaium ke vml to that coiuitTy on ; trat he,
RmhWU, infonnad lhiaiiifiiniMnttluit,an hia naf hwne,
he had called tX Detroit, where he had spent tome time,
wad had, he betiexd, MUored into an aarodation, ts
which, if he got the conaant of die ChnaniiBMtt of IIm
United Stalei, would be aconaiderable advantage to hha,
and tlMM who choae to awodate with him, pTDtidad he
liked the ipecttUtion. He then infanned this inbtm-
ant that ha had aaaodated wit|i a number c^ influential
penooa at Detroit for the purpoee of abuioing the pre-
emption ri^it to a. large ttict of connti; withui the tai-
rilOTj of ths United Slates, and produced to this in-
fcrmanl llie original auodation. After thia informant
had heard all t^t Randall had to commnnicalo to htm,
tht* infonnaat told Randall that he conddered biB
■dieme aa a witd-gooH one, and that this informant
wonld not have any eoneem in it. Randall then re-
queated thii infinmant to pit him hia o^nion in what
manner be. Randall, ought to proceed. This informant
told him that the moat proper peraon to apfdy to wai
Mr. Randolpb, the late Secretarj of State, and if he,
Ramlall, Iboaght jptoper, tht* infimnaat would mfiirm
Mr. Randolc^ (d. it, and get hia advka ; whieb Randall
agreed to. Thia intilnDant than went to Mr.Randdph,
and gave him all the inlbrmatiim (hat the iuinmant had
RceiTed &om RandalL After eonaidenng the bui'
ia Mine tine, Mr. Randolph advised that an api
lion shontd be made to the President of the United
Statee ; whldl adTice the informant gave to Randall,
who seemed, at that lime, ftiU; latialied with the ptopo-
-■-■■' - ■ - -*-^lJni to*e
at And
lainsoUof townuadqro' t«o,ha toU Baitdall that
he wouM intooduM hint to the Preaident ob Ua ratun
to Congiaap When the inlbrmant came to Philadel-
phia, in December, he fotmd Randall in the dty ; and,
after a^ing Randall what he had done in hia budneaa,
md whether he itill meant to appl; to the Pnddent,
Randall then iufbnnad ibe taifcrmaot that hia Mend and
aasociate, Mr. Whitney, hwi anired in Philadelphta,
and that, apon coniDlting with him, the; came to a de-
terminatioB not to aptilj to tlw Pieaident, aa he hereto-
fbre bad asiMd, hot bad determined
ncaial la tha Legi^tura fat a grant of the aaid land,
Thia inlhnnant told Bandall tltal he diaat^aorad of this
mode, and aaked Randall who had adTised hiin to iL
Randall then informed the informant that the said Whit'
Dej had blbnaed him that he had amaulted with
number of the Eaatern membera of Coogreia, and i
particular with Mr. Sedgwick, who had adTiied thia
mode of proceeding. Randall alao informed thia in-
Ibimant ^t Mr. ^gwick had agreed to draw up and
present hia memorial. Thii inhmnaiit then informed
Randall that, bj this mode of proceeding, he had put it
out of this infanoant'a power to be concerned with him,
if he thought ever so well of it Randall aaked the
farmant the reascn. The infamant answered, that it
would be impropar in any member of Congress t« be
eooeenwd in aiiTllung tMt he ""'"
infatmuit was boI aUe to impr
piietT of bia remark. The infcrBumt
' Sedgwick was, in vaj mawu .
w hw asaaoiitss ; hot that he, Mr. Sedgwidt,
uw^nt the thine ■ pnhiie baaeflt, and woald anppMt
it. That Ran^ll itsier informed this inAnrnant that
my of Iba m«mb«M of Congnsa wm« concerned, but
that a maiotity of them thonght CiTorablj of the plan,
■■d wouU sappott ib In all the oonTeisation the in-
tumant had with Bandall, thia iofonnant told bun that
he oonld not expect
informant would never agree to sell any of the lands af
the Unitsd Btatae forless Aan a dollar per acre. Ran-
w«a atrange that the informaat waa the only pason
in CMigress Akat he had applied to but what aesmsd to
thkik fatoiabtjof hia plan. The inlMntaat told Bak-
iplication to tfape Praiidult, which Randall dedined.
"G. CHR18TIE.
&, 17M."
And then the Honae adjonnted.
THtmsDiT, JanaaiT 7.
CASE OF CHARLES WHITNET.
After dispoaiag of aundiy petitioiu^—
Mr. SiMiwioK called for the ordei of the day,
z: the fartlier proceeding in the hearing of
Charles Whitney. This was agreed to.
Mr. GiLEB, while Mr. Whiuejr waa sent for,
roie,and said that hewassiton^yimjirened with
the propriety of paying honcnably every man \o
viiom the United States were in arieais for mili-
dtately to take the asnte of the House. Tha hk»-
Itttion was tb-eo read, and, in eubatance, propoaea
that the proper officers be directed to lay before
this HoOM a list of all officers and soldiers of tltc
late Continenial Army and Nary who appear, ob
the books of the United States, to hare arrean
due to them, with a statement of the respoctira
addressed him as follows : ^ Charles Whitney,
the infonoation lod^ sgaiaat yoQ on the Joat-
nab of the House Will now be read to yog by tha
Clerk." ThJB was aeoordingly done.
Mr. Whitney waa nest asked at what tiiae he
would be ready to proceed with his dsfenoe % He
replied that he thooght ha conld be ready to go
on just now, if he had counsel. If he could get
them to-mrarrow, he should be glad to go on then,
in order to gel the thing orer. If counsel eouU
not be got, M would request a delay till Monday.
He was sure Mt.Bdck had laislakeD his mea»<
ing. He was toM that he would be called aa
again to-morrow, aitd if he had not been able to
^tain eooBsel theiL there was a probability of hia
being allowed a delay till Monday.
I^. BonaNB Btated iIm hardship of obli^iftg Ae
prisoner to fee oovasel ; no probability eziatin^ of
any thing farther being brought against kiB.
There was but little in the charge, admitting it
to be true. Mr. B. made a distinctioo of the co»-
Tosation haring pained in Vermtml, not in Phil*-
de^hia. It was before Mr. Bock came to Con-
greesat all.
Mr. GiLM had yesterday ezpnssed b«t little sft-
tis&ction at the mode of eonduetag thia busii)ea%
nor had his satisfaction been since augmented by
farther leflecttoa. He read a moticxi, which
seeonded, for dismissing Whitney immediately.
I Admitting all which stood ohaiged, Mr. Oiua did
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
HofR.]
due <^ Randail and Wkiinet/.
[JahDabi, 1796.
not coiuider it as containiDg ajiy breach of privi-
%.
r. W. Smith regarded this resalutioa as pre-
mature ; lie wished to have the legutar forma ol
trial ^oae through, as io the other case. When
the trial was fioished, the Honse could then decide
OD the guilt or inuoceDce of the prisoner. He
thought thai Mr. Bdck ought to be sworn. When
the offer was made id Vermont, he was looked
upon as a member of Congress, and the lempta~
tioa which had been held out to him was a con-
tempt of the House. There was not yet a suffi-
cient eiplanation to justify his discharge.
Mr.HiLLHODBEsupposedcorraption to be equally
criminal in Vermont as in Philadelphia. It would
commit the dignity of the House to say thst we
have kept a man in jail for a week, and then bare
dismissed him without a trial. It implies that we
nerer had any right to arreet him. Mr. H. had
not formed his ultimate opinion on the subiect.
He wished the trial to be gone through, and tnen,
if the prisoner proved innocent, dismiss him. He
had made application to a member in this town,
besides Mr. Bdck in Vermont. [Mr. Goodbde,
on whom Mr. Whitney called, after he came to
Philadelphia.]
Mr. Bock ooiecled to the immediate dismission
of Whitney, ft struck him ae an impropriety tc
dismiss the prisoner by an unqualified resolution.
It would be better to slate, as a reason, that the
attempt to corrupt the integrity of a member had
happened in Vermont, before the silting down of
ConcreKi. Then let the question come forward
wkdM tried.
Mr. Sbdqwick had, more than was usual with
him, avoided speaking on this Question. He early
entertained an idea that an application to a mem-
ber of Congress, before il sat, was not a breach of
privilege. It was an unfortiuutle circumstance
when the sam^ persons were to be both judges
and parties. People were apt to ^t into a pas-
sion when one came to them and said, "Iconsider
you as rascals.'and 1 want to purchase a portion
of your rascality."
Mr. MiDisoN said, il appeared to him that the
House could have no privtleges, unless what arises
from the necessity of the case. He differed from
the opinion formed by the House, but he wished
them to act in conformity to their own principle.
The object at present before the House is, to keep
its members free from corruption. Whether a pro*
posal is made in town or country, if we dismiss
name* and circumstances, and look only to the
substance of the thing, there is no distinction be-
tween the two cases.
Mr.Piaasaid, that if the motion for dismissing
had come on a week ago, he would have voted for
it. He wished to get rid of the matter as fast as
possible. He allnded, though not indirect terms,
to the idea of Mr. Lewis, that it would have
been better to have kicked some people down
staira, than to have made them objects of pro-
secution.
Mr. HiHPER considered it as a material distinc-
tion between a member bein^ attacked and beaten,
for example; in Philadelphia, during his attend-
ance on Congress, and the same aceident occnr-
ring during the recess, in a distant part of the
country, ft was admitted that the doctrine of
privilege violated the rights of the people, and
could be justified only upon the plea of necessity :
It being so liable to misapprehension and miscon-
struction, he wished to see ae little of it as pos-
sible. He gave his hearty concnrrence to the re-
solution of Mr. GiLEBk He had been desirous of
seeing such a thing brought forward. He advert-
ed to the delicate situation of the House, at once
accusers, judges, and witnesses.
Mr. Gallatin spoke a few words in favor of
the motion.
IS persuaded that the House
d has a right to exert them.
wished to dismiss the prisoner. It had been said
that dismissing him without a trial, after having
apprehended and confined him, would be casting a
reflection on the House. No such thing! There
existed probable grounds of suspicion. We have
waited lull time, and no proof has come forward.
Then let him go, and the sooner that we do it the
belter.
When Mr. Isaac Smith sat down, Mr. Giles
mse to ofiTer a resolution, in place of his former
"Raolttd, That it ai^Man to this Houoe that Ihe
infbimation lodged ■gaiiiat CharlM Whitnej doea aot
amount to a brrach of the privileges of this Honae, and
tliat bs therefbrs t>e disdurged &<»n clutadj."
Mr. FaEBHAH voted yesterday in a minority
for dismissing Randall. He would this day vote
for discharging Whitney. As to the dignity of
the Huuse, even an outrage upon it could be as
well puni.ihed by a Justice of the Peace as by our-
selves. He stated the extreme difficulty of adopt-
ing, in practice, the doctrine laid down, that an
improper offer made to a member when iu the
country, was to be punished as a breach of privi-
lege. A member^ suppose from Georgia, comes
here, and tells a story of somebody in that State
who has made him an unsuitable proposal', the
Sergeant-at-Arms is instantly despatched a thou-
sand miles to bring this person to the bar for con-
tempt of the House, What kind of a business
would this be 7
Mr. Hahtlev thought the tesolotion last of-
fered by Mr. Giles had loo much oairowed the
ground of dismiasing Whitney. He had been
taken up as an associate with Randall. The
charge had not been pioperly supported by evi-
dence. Dismiss him. and let the want of proof
be your reason for it. Mr. H. cordially agreed
With the substance of the resolution, but he ob-
jeeted to the wording of it.
Mr. Natbanibl Smith believed that the great
difference in opinion on this question arose from
the different grounds on which the doctrine of pri-
vile^ had been placed. Some gentlemen had sup-
posed the only ground for the privilege contended
for was to secure the members from actual bribeiy.
Of course they supposed that equal dan^r might
occur before or after leaving their residence in
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Janoakt, 1796.]
Case of RandaU and WkUney.
[H.ofR.
the coimtiy. Mr. Shitb contended that thb idea
placed pririlege oo ■ wrong grcniDd. This idea
would be disgraceful to the members. He would
not admit that bd; gentleman in the House would
take a bribe, that there was real danger of it,
that there could be a neceiisity to prevent it. Per-
MDaKy, he held such an imputation in the highest
contempt. He imagined that the question ought
to be set on s very mffereot ground. If the opio-
ioD which he would now state wa« correct, it
would evince the propriety of convicting Randall
yeiterday, and of acqttitting Whitney to-day.
The ground of privilege ha took to be thisr the
iadigiiity offered to the House, through the me-
dium of its members. It might be asked^ why
iDembers ought to be privileged from insults
while sitting as a deliberative trady 7 He had se-
veral answers. In the first place, members onght
to be able to proceed with due deliberation. They
could not, as Mr. 8. conceived, do so, if subject te
be insulted with the offer of bribes, or with olhei
indignities, every time that they went without the
bar. Mr. 3. had ■ second reason why members
should not, while aeting as a Legislative body, be
liable to offensive intrusions. It was requisite for
their being publicly usefol, that they should enjoy
public cc^denee, which confidence the Wmg
open to intrigues tended to destroy. These Mr.
8. regarded as the true grounds on which the
doctrme of privilege ought to be founded ; he
conceived that ihis doctrine could not extend to
a member at bis residence in the country. Hence
the propositions made bv Whitney to Mr. Bock
in Vermont, were not B oreach of the privileges
of the House. For this reason be was in favor
<^ discharging the prisoner from the bar, though
in doing so, be differed from the reasons oi several
other gentlemen.
Mr. KiTCHBLL pointed out the wide distinction
between the cases of Randall and Whitney. It
had been said that the latter mast be criminal, for
he was an associate with Randall. Mr. K. saw
no such thing-. There was no criminality in the
bond. Keep a man in jail week after week upon
idle suspicion 1 In justice, Whitney ought to have
been tried at first, when he declared himself ready
for trial. Mr. K. was for discharging him this
dav.
Mr. Harpbr now moved an amendment to the
resolution before the House : it was in these words :
IS the juopoaals made b; the aaid Wbit-
ntj took place before the member to vrfaom tbej were
■ddieaaed had taken hia seat in the House."
Mr. QiLU. If the amendment succeeded, he
would vote against the whole proposition. This
na* a renewal of the attempt to define privil^e.
It was not praclioable. Every case of the kind
must stand upon its own merits. Mr. Q. would
vote against toe amendment.
Mr. HacoN read a resolution, that Charles
Whitney be discharged from the custody of the
Sergeant-at-Arms. This was, in iact. reducing
the second resolution offered by Mr. Gilbb back
iato bis first one.
Mr. SsvawtcK thought it an awkward thing to
attempt giving any reasons. If gentlemen are
willing to agree to dJachaive Mr. Whitney, they
ought to diachai^ him. They assign different
reasons fbr the same proceedings, and will not
consent to it, hut each in his own particular mode.
Mr. Habpeb was astonished to hear so many
invincible objeetions to telling the motives why
we agree in a measure. It bad been complaint
that privilege was undefined ; that it was an as-
suming, creeping monster. An alterdpt had been
made to define it, in part, and this also had been
objected to.
Mr. Mjlcom said, that he would vote to dis-
charge Whitney, for a particular reason alleged
by Mr. OiLEB.
Now, replied Mr. Giles, if the gentleman is to
tote for the dismission because that is my reason,
I desire him to vote against the dismission. My
reason for discharging Whitney is totally differ-
ent. I arsue, that all which we have entered on
the JouroEilK, admitting it proved, does not amount
to any breach of our privileges. That is my mo-
tive lor dismissing the prisoner.
An amendment was proposed to strike out of
the resolution of Mr. Qileh the following words:
"That it appeamto this Honse, that (he informa-
tion lodged against Charles Whitney, does not
amount to a breach of the privileges of this
House; and". The amendment wa!> agreed to —
ayes 43, noes 41.
It was then moved to alter the remainder of
the re»oluti<Hi, by striking out the word "he," and
inserting "Charles WhitBey." The amendment
was adopted ; and the reaolution so amended, stood
thus:
This, also, was agreed to.
Mr. WiujAM Smith proposed an amendment.
It was, in substance, assigning as a raasoa for the
discharge of Mr. Whitney, that the offence against
Mr. BuoK Lad been committed in Vermont, be-
fore tbat gentleman took his seat in Congress.
Mr, Maoom objected that this amendment was
only bringing the House back to the ground
which they had just quitted, and making them
) over the same arguments a second time.
Mr. Q[LEB said, that the former amendment to
B reaolution. viz: that suggested by Mr. Har-
:r went at the head of his resolution. The one
>w proposed by the member from Bouth Caro-
la went at the tail of it. This was the only
difference between them. This way of making
amendments was endless.
Mr. BonRHE was in favor of this amendment.
It would be singular to discharge (he man with-
It assigning some reason for it on the Journals.
Mr. Qallatim. Mr. Whitney was at the bar
Ibis morning, and we directed him to prepare for
his defence. He is now gone, after having de-
nied the char^ laid againat him. . In the absence
of the man himself, and without allowing him an
opportunity for vindication, we are, by this amend-
ment, to declare on the Journals, that he made an
attempt on the integrity of a member, hnt be.
Dgtzo. O.Google
HISTOBT OF CONGRESS.
*R.]
Ctu6 (^ Mandaii and WMtney.
cause it ma before the membei took. bU seat, &«.
What kind of treatmeni is this 7 What right
have this House to keep an AmeTican citizen ten
days in jai],ai)d then il«clir« him infamous, with-
out permitting him to be heard in his defence?
He Itas said that the gentleman &om Vermont
misunderstood him. I beheve that what the
member said is true j but it may possibly be ex-
plained away. I will not yote for insulting a
man by dectariag him guilty, at the very moment
when we are forced to dismiss him, because we
cannot find proof that he is so.
.Mr. W. Smith, in answer to what Mr. Giles
had Baid about the head and tail of hi* retolution,
said that he could make ueitber head dot tail of
the argument uaed by the gentleman from Vir-
ginia. He had risen to make hia amendment, be-
cause he thought himself ati well entitled as that
ffismbec, or any other in the House, to deliver bis
own opinions, and to suggest BUch amendments as
be juaged proper. The objections of Mr. Qait
i^TiN could be readily obviated by an amend'
ment which he would read.
Mr. Vghablg was 'against the amendment be-
fore the House. It was qaite immaterial where
an ofience was committed. A plan migfai be laid
in Vermont. A gentleman might afterwards
CMne to this House, and act upon it ; and Vote
for a measure that would ruin the country.
The amendment of Mr. W. Surra was, on a
diTisioo, negatived.
Mr. LiTiNOBTOH was for discharging the pris-
oner immediately, though he believed both him
and Randall guilty of the offences alleged against
them. They bad not been in good company; he
did not like ihe proposal the butler because it ori-
ginated with Brttisn merchants; though thai cir-
cumstance did not amount to a proof of guilt.
He alluded lo the wars excited by British- emissa-
ries on the fiooiiera. 7\m«o Danaot dona fe-
raaet. 1 dread these Britons and the ^ifU they
bring. He thea entered into a calculation, in or-
der to pK>7e, that Randall and Whitney could
actually have given away twenty four shares ont
of thirty-six, and still, at the rate proposed, have
a very large reversion of profit to themselves.
He warned the House that ae did not intend to
affirm that the niilt of the nisoners was po&i-
tkvely ascertained, but the evidence addncad had
made an impreasioa of that sort upon his mind.
Mr. PtoB said, he would vote for the motion to
diaohar^ Whitney, that he might be consistmit
with his vote of yesterday, and because he could
not Bkd any definition of the offence with wfaicb
Whitney is charged in the books of our laws. If
he could evan find it, in definitions of breach of
privilege in the British Parliament, he found no
punishment which this House was, by the Con-
stitntion, authorized to inflict. Parliament niles
■re, it is true, applicable to the proceedings of
this House, and some of them have been happily
aj>|^i(d here. But Mr. Pagb did not think par-
liaiuentary precedents respecting cases of breach
had da&ied those powers, aiid he iutpei never i
exceed them. He hoped that the House would
' rid of an affair so foreif[n to their pecnliar
inesB of legislation as qmckly as ponible. He
lo Randall. An insult had been offered by both
prisoners to individual members ; but how far
that was Bu insult to Congress, or how Congress
should resent it, might be doubted. He thought,
with one of Randall's couDsel, that the insufted
member misht have chastised him, or mighi have
prosecuted hipi, He believed that there was no
conceivable offence, but what could either be punr
ished in a court of law, or a repetition of it be
prevented by a new law. The preseot proceed-
ings are not calculated to preserve the Houae
against similar insults, nor necessary for securing
the reputation and integrity of its members. As
for protection from insults offered by the gallery,
or persons in the street, he would ao as far as
any member in support of it ; but oe believed,
that the House might rely on the laws, and on
their constituents, for protection, with more pro-
priety than on British precedents. The present
jvoceedings, if published as a precedent, will
more likely produce discontent than respect. It
is the'duiy of legislators to prevent injustice and
establish uniform rules for proceeding against
offenders. Hence it does not became them, in
their own cause, to he prosecutors, witnesses,
judges, and jurors. The majority who voted yes-
terday to punish Randall, may with consistencT
vole against the dismission of Whitney. Doln
are charged with the same offence, and similar
proof has, in both instances, been adduced. It is
said that the offence was committed at Vermont,
before the privilege of the member commenced.
gerous for a member to get such applications
when at home than after he came to Congress.
Mr. P. would rather be attempted here than at
home. He was for the resolution.
Mr. W, Smith had, early in the debate, ob-
served that a final deteimination, this day, would
be premature. He, therefore, moved to postpone
the farther consideration of the resolution till
Monday. Qentlemen seemed to regret the ex-
treme criminality of the plan. It w«it to rob the
United Stales of a property worth parhaps twenty
millions of dollars.
Mr. Giles was for discharging the prisoner
instanity, because though every tittle were true,
that stands on our Journals against him, it does
not, all together, amoont to a>reach of privilege.
He had been, he believed, this day, a dozen of
times uDon his legs, to explain his reasons^ and
they hau still been misuuderstood. Indeed, if we
are to talk on from day to day, for the purpose of
protracting Whitney's confinement, it would be
better to vote plainly for so many days of impris-
onment. Mr. Q. could not help observing, that
in alt which was said this day, he did not near a
single sentiment of sympathy for the sufferings
of this poor man, who had been kept ten days in
jail on an accusation, that, if proved, did not
amount to an offence.
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BISTORT OF C0N6HESS.
llNOART, 1796.]
Indian Trading BauMa.
lH.orIl.
The motion for poMponiog till Monday iras
negatived, only eighteen memben liung to stip-
A Mcond motion waa then made for postpoaing
till lo-murrow (Friday.) Only tbirty-two mem-
bets rose in its fiiTor. Negati7ed.
The Tesolntion was then read :
Saohed, Hat Chule* Whitney be dixJurged &om
die cvitodj of the 8erge«Dt4t-Ainu.
The yeu and nays were called for and taken—
yeas 93, nays 30.
TheprUoDerwastheDbroDghttothebar. The
Speaker addtessed bim thas: '
" Chailei Whitney: the HooM hive ihooght propei
to diachaige you without further hearing, by ■ resolo-
lion that will be read to you by the Clerk."
This wa« done ; the prisoner went off; and the
Honse, at half past three o'clock, adjonrned.
Fbidat, January 8.
Jebbniah Cba^b, from Maryland, appeared,
wva qnaliSed, and took his seat.
INDIAN TRADING H0UBE8.
The Hoiue went into Committee of the Whole,
Mr. MoBLEnBEHfl in th« Chair, on the bill to et-
labliah trading bouMd for the Indian trtbcs.
Mr. DArroN objected to the bill, so br as it
eaapowers those who are to sell the goods to the
lodiana, to procure or purchase the ^oods. He
eoundered the uniting these powen id the same
persons a* highly exceptionable, sttd liable to
gre&t abnte. He morea to alrike out the words
^procure or."
Mr. Parser said that the obiection was misap-
[died, for anbsequeni claoses placed the business
under the special diiectionof the Phesioent of
THE United States. He should not^ however,
object lo striking out the words. His view in
rising was merely to justify the committee who
teported the bill, as they had supposed that suffi-
cient guards were prorided.
Mr. GiLAs did not think the reason given for
every part of^tAis baiinaM as will enable him to
•eeure ihe piriilic, or Indians, from imposition.
He was for increasing the obeeks against abuse.
The motion for striking out was agreed to.
In the third lection^ tJu. Sedowioc objected to
the words "laying aside all view of gam by the
trade." They might operate disadvanitweously
to the people of the United States, if Govern-
ment should enter into this trade on a principle
that would preclude all private adventurers iu
the same tine by citiaens. The words were ez-
punsed.
Mr. Parier presented a substitute. It relates
to compensation of agents and clerks to be em-
ployed. The sum of dollars was to be
Sipropriated. The sabstimte was adopted by the
ommittee.
In the seventh aectioD, Mr. Sedgwick moved an
amendment, providing for (he forfeiture of li-
to iolroduoe the prorision elsewhere.
Mr. MiLLEi>OB moved to strike out the whole
of this seventh section. It appeared to him to
involve provisions which would be proper in
another law, but in this bill blended two different
subjects.
Mr. Sbdowick considered the provisiona in this
section referring to certain rules for regulating
the public trade with the Indians, as proper, since
similar rules would be made in regulating the
trade of individuals with Indians. On this
ground he was for retaining the s)
It was moved to modify the section by conf
the provisions to " the agents or clerks," si
confin-
ing the provisions to " the agents or clerks," spe-
cify employed by the United States. Tnis
amendment was agreed ti
On the motion of Mr. Sedowick, the last clause
of the seventh section, relative to the oath or
affirmation, was expunged.
The Committee then rose ; the Chairman re-
ported the bill with the amendments, which were
taken op, and agreed to by the House, with one
verbal amendment.
Mr. Swirr exptessed his disapprobation of the
bill. He thought the object unattainable to any
important extent. He disapproved of public bo-
dies being concerned in trade. It is always man-
aged belter by individuals. Great loss and dilapi-
dation are the ooosequepee; Dor is it possible to
guard against frauds sod abuses. The poblie
here no money to spare. It is the opinion of the
Committee of Ways end Means, that additional
taxes will be necessary for the public service.
We must not lax our conslitoeDts for the Jake of
trading with the Indians. He hoped not. Mr.
8. concluded by a motion for striking out the
first section.
Mr. Paxkeb supported (he principle of the bill;
he wished a &ir eineriment to be made. The
plan is founded on numanity and benevolenee.
It has been recommended by the Pkbcidbnt ftom
year to year. Mr. P.. on this subject, had been
in sentiment with him. It was well known he
had never lightly advocated a disbursement of
public money ; on this occasion, it would be a
saving of public money. It will cost much lest
to conciliate the good opinion of the Indians than
to pay men for destroying them.
Mr. HiLLBonaB was in favor of an experiment.
Much had been anticipated from the plan ; a be-
ginniuK had been made, end he thought it best to
Ir^ it for such a teoRlb of lime as would afford a
fair experiment of vmat conld be done.
Mr. SwAKwicK said he was in favor of the
principles of the bill, were it merely as a change
from our usual system of Indian a&irs. We
have hitherto pursued war at an expense of a mil-
lion and a half of dollars nearly annoally; let tii
now try the fruits of commerce, that beneficent
power which cements and civilizes so many na-
tions ; barbarous till they became acquainted with
its influence. To ehcourage us, indeed, a fact
hath oome to our knowledge on the investigation
of the case of Randall. Gentlemen vrill remem-
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331
HISTORY OP C0NGKES8.
R.]
htduin Trading Smte*.
[jANDAmT. 1796.
ber his auertions to them, and the dned read in
tbe House, id which to much was stated irf the
influence of tbe Canada tndera over the Indiani :
well, let u* try to balance or counteivail this in-
fluence ; but it has been observed, our private
citizens will do this sufGciently in ihe way of
their private trade. In general 1 am friendly to
let commerce take its own level without Govern-
mental interference ; but the little influence our
traders bave yet obtained, shows plainly enoneh
defective capital or a defec live extent of tra<Aj
both are to be apprehended. So many objects of
speculatioQ ofier m this country, that individuals
may not pay sufficient attention to this brancii,
JD which they have so powerful a British interest
to contend with. Government, alone, can do this
in the infancy of Ihe commerce. Let the experi-
ment be made ; we can lose little by it ; we may
gain a areal deal. It has been observed, that this
act haln been rejected in three different sessions
of Congress already ; and this is argued as »
proof of its want of merit; but this hath been
the fat»in Bogland of the navigaiion act; it wa*
hundreds of years struggling to get into exist-
ence, but was not the less acceptable when at last
it succeeded. Perhaps we may find this hill, on
experience, none the worse for the difficulties,
which, Bs an untried step, it hath hitherto liad to
encounter: it Is recommended by general reason-
ing; let us try it; we can only repeal it if vre
fiiul it does not answer ibe sanguine expectations
eotertained of it
Mr. Macoh was apposed to the bill. He
thought tbe circumstance of the business harine
been so long in agitation, was a reason why it
should be longer considered. The reason for de-
lay was certainly not weakened by thai. The
business was highly improper fai Qovemmeat to
Mr. MoRHAY had but one idea to suggest, as it
wa« UDDecessary to go over the general policy,
which had been amply stated by other gentle-
men. There appeared to him two objects; first,
the securing the Indian friendship by a supply of
their wants: second, the supplanting tbe British
traders in their influence over the tribes whose
hostilities might embarrass us. To tbe last d\y
ject. therefore, the meditated mode of supply by
public agency was peculiarly well adapted. The
Indiaas ace now supplied by a great company
long established, very wealthy, and possessing
this influence, in which we must supt^ant them.
We are to consider whether, if private individnalB
are left to be tbe only competitors with tbe Can-
ada company, this influence and this trade will be
transferred agreeably to sound policy. He thought
they would not. Small capitalists, and adventu-.
rer* young in this trade, would certainty prove
imequal to a competition with so well established
and rich a company as the Canada company. It
was DO uncommon thing for great companies,
when they were apprehensive of what they woold
call interlopers, to crush all competition by. mak-
ing a voluntary sacrifice of afew thousand pounds
sterling. By uudetselling, on a large scale, for a
time, and even a certain Tom, they seemed themr
selves in future from competition. This great
company can afford to pay this price for the per-
petuity of this trade and influence. In order to
meet the capital of this company, we must not
trust to individual small capitalists. By a snm
approtiriated by Government to the object. ho»^
ever large the capital in competition in Cansdi,
the Government will be able to beat down the
trade of this company and place it in American
hands ; and in a few years after the comjneiiiioD
bas ceased, the Government may (ben withdraw
its agency, and leave it to private capitals, ta
which the Geld will then have been rendered
easy.
The motion of Mr. Swirr was negatived ; and
the bill was ordered to be engro^^ed for a third
reading.
PERMANENT SEAT OP GOVERNMENT.
The following Mes&age was received from the
E United STATta:
Haute of Rifnt»tatiif ;
I transmit to yon a msDioTisl of Ihs Cranmianoosn
appointed by virtus of sn act, antitled " An act for i»
tabliihing the temporary and permanent 8eat of tbs
Oovernment of the Unitod States," on tbe nibject of
the public baildinp onder then: direction.
Smca locating a distiict tbi the pehnaBcnl Scat of
the OoTernment of the Unitad Stalas, sa bentofiin
annonnced lo both Uouaaa of Congress, 1 havs ai>-
copted the granta of money and of land staled in die
memorial of the Commiiaioners. I bave diraeted Ik*
buildings thwein mentioned Ui be coouaenced, on
plans which I deemed amiiilent with Uie libaralilj fi
the grants' and proper fbi the purposes intended.
I have not been InattsntiTe to this important bn^
neas iotniited by the Legislature to my care, t hsvs
viewed ths resources plsced in my hands, and oU
served the tnsnnei in which they have been applied •■
the ptogie» is pretty tully detailed in the memoml
from the CommissioneTS ; and one of them attends to
give further infoimatiDii if fequired. In a case new
and arduous, like the preaant, difficulttea might natu-
rally be expected : some have occurred ; but they *M
in a great degne aunnonBted ; and I have no doabt, if
the remaining resouiesa an properij dieliahed, lO as U
prevent tbe iam of prnpatty bj haa^ and numcrois
sales, that all the boildinga required Rr the aoconw^
datioa of the Oovenunant oi the Unitod States la^
be completed in season, withont aid boaa lbs Fedsnl
Treaniiy. The subfect is lbareiii» reoommended la
tbs ««iinderation of Congreas, and the rasnlt wiU de-
tennina the measures which I shall cauae to be punasd
with respect to Ihe pniperM remaining unsold.
G. WASHINGTON.
Umitib Statis, January B, ITSS.
CHARLES WHITNEY.
A letter was read from Charles Whitney, efi'
closing a petition. Mr. Whitney requested the
Houae to hear the evidence of Colonel Silas Pe-
pune, who is now in town, In bis vindication.
The letter was dated io prison. His creditors,
alarmed by tbe proceedings of the House, havt
.d by Go Ogle
HISTOIlt OF CONGMSS.
Nttml ArrniaTOtnt — Survei/ of the Sovth^n Cbtul.
The lettei aad pelitioa were oideted lo lie o
the table, and thea the Hoaae adjourned 1
Monday.
The bill for establisliiiig trading houses with the
Indians was read.
Mr. 3. Shitu moved, as an amendment, to
strike out ihe words " jurisdiction thereof." The
motion was withdrawn to make room for another,
suggested by Mr. Blodkt. This was, that the
engrossed bill should be referred to a Committee
of the Whole House., It was accordingly made
the order of the day for to-morr9W. ,
EXCI8B DUTY UPON BHUFF.
Mr. GboDHCB preRented a petition from certain
■Duff-maken, in the State of Imtssacho setts. They
complain of the hardship of laying on the excise
upon the mortar. If an excise is neces.sary, they
recommend thai it should be transferred back again
to the weight. The petition was referred to the
Committee of Commerce and Manu&ctures.
ARREARS FOR MILITARY SERVICEa
Hr. QiLES called tip his motion, laid on the table
■ few days ego, Telatire to procuring from the
proper officers an (tccount of arrears, due by the
United Biatn for military letTieei to indiTiauals.
ft was referred to the Conmittee of Claims, to
report on the practicability and expediency of the
resolution.
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
Mr. W. Smith observed to the Home, that, in
the law regarding the equipment of the six frieates,
there was a claose directing that the bunding
should be suspended, in case of a peace being con-
eluded between tills country and the Algerines.
Mr 8. read the clause in Ihe Bet. He had not yet
fornied his own opinion. He wished the sense of
the House to be Known. If it was thought bet-
ter to sell the materials, there had been so great
m rise in the price, that they could be disposed of
at such a rale as to avoid any toss to the United
Stales. If it was thought proper to lay the money
aside, u B naval fund, Mr. 8. read a number of
resolutions, which he would probably submit ti
the House; iu the present stage of the busiues:
ihey were premature. Hs now submitted to thi
House the followiog readuiion :
" Rttobied, That a comiaittra be appointed to pre
pare and bring in a bill to repsil the tut section of dii
■et, entHled ■ A« ad to provide a Naval ArmaiDent.'*
Mr. P&HKER said, that Che committee appointed
on the slate of the Naval Armament were in the
d»i\j eipectHtion of getting information on the
subject from the proper olSceis. He advis<!d thai
aoy proceeding en it should not be had till after
that waa obtained. Ordered to lie ou the tabli
SURVEY OF THE SOUTHERN COAST.
On motioa of Mr. Millbinh:, the House went
into a Committee tA the Whtm, on the report of
4th CoH.— 9
die select committee on the memorial of Parker,
Hopkins, and Mcers. The report was dated the
39tn of December last, and being on a subject of
the hiehrest consequence to the commercial inte-
rest of this country, the following absimct of the
report is presented:
" Tie roa«t not only of Georgia, but also of South
Oan>Iin&, North Carolina, and Virginia, has never been
■urveyed with the degree of aceurac; which their im-
portance to the dbmmerce and navjga&n of the United
States demands. As to Qeorgia. in pa/tieular, whose
harbon are nnmerons, and as jet very little known, few
abserrations have been made npm its cout, and tboM
few have now become uuoertajn, from the shifting <rf'
bar*, banlu, and dtsonek. The coDinuttse are of opiir*
that, to obtain acciuvtc aurve jii and chart* of thoM
coasts and inland navigation, would be an object of na-
tional importance and general advanlage. They find
have nndeitaken, and made con-
, _ tliia umIuI Tfork. Thewhole coact
of Qeorgia, £n>m Su Maiy'e to Savannah, induaive, with
ita harbon, riven, and inland navigatioa, haa been
ompletsd by tbem with a degree of aecnn;cy and skill,
aa it appears to the committee, which frill antilie thstr
work to piiblic patronage; and, although it is now read;
Ibi BDBTBving, they, having eihausted their leaources,
declare Ihemselves unable lo proceed without assistance,
which they require Is three ihouBuid dollar*,
which, together nith the copy-right, noald be a reaMm-
■ble compensation for what they have done, end would
enable them to prosecute their enterprise with prospects
of bringing it to an early completion. The copy-right,
is the committee think, ought to be ■ part of the com-
pensation, because it would lessen the actual expense to
the public, and operate ai an Inducement to the Qiide>
Istan to make the work aapertbct as poMilde. ^^i^
die committee conceive a faigli i^ijnan of the eapscttjr
id the memorialials, and accuracy of their work, lha]l
wUI not prononiice them the moat proper parson* til
be employed in an undertaking so BsBful and imptHtanl,
nor aa? what aum may be necaasaiy to cany it into
e0ect ; they think it wonld be more advisabte to leave
^_ , _— -__ preference, which tlie committee are
inclined to believe Ihe; merit, and v^cb, after making
the proper inquiries, will be enabled to estimate the
sums reqointa, and adopt such expedients aa may tend
to lessen the expense. The employment of the revenue
cutlets in that service, when not moreusefiilljoeeuiHed,
is one measure which ^ committee consider as highly
proper : they IhereCbre raeommcnd the fbUowing leao-
"Buolfsi, ThatlhePnwdsntoftheUiiitedSlaletbe
requertad to obtain, as soon aa poasible, oom^et^ anB
accurate charts, made out &om actual surrey and ot>-
■ervittien, of the seaooaat, from the river St. Maiy'i, ia
Cieorgta,to Clieaspeake Ba;,incln*iv«, and that ' '
dollars be appropriated for that purpose."
The Speaker and Mr. Swanwick read each of
them B motion for referring the subject generally
to a committee. They wished to have the object
of the motion extended.
Mr. MiLLBoae thought that if the matter totA
ithis turn, it would clog the business. The com-
millee report that the surveys have been maJe
with accuracy, and he therefoiv recommended
such tteaeares an would lead to an early publlca-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
Bemiinon of Dutiti, f c— William Tbmfttiu, f e.
[JAHnART, 1796.
tion. He represented the dangerous stateof
StioQ on the coast of Qeorgia, where were many
rbors totally undescribed.
Mr. SwANWicK h(^d that there would
an opposition to a geaeral reference. He would
TOle for a recommitmeot on that principle.
Another member staled, that from Charleston
to Si. Mary's riTer, there are few or no charts!
many ships are lost for want of them. He ^oped
that the motion for recommitment would
prevail. This motion passed.
The Committee rose, and the Chairman re-
ported. Mr. SwANwicK thought that the
ahould be referred to the Committee of Commerce
and Manufactures, which has some aoalt^os sab-
jeets before it. This was agreed to.
REHraSION OF DimES, &c
A report from the Committee of Claims, on the
petitions of Wright White, John Derereanx, and
William and Archibald McNeills, was taken up
and considered. They several ly requested remis-
sion of duties on certain articles wnich had paid
them. One of these was for a. cargo of salt di
atroyed, on the second of Aus^ust last, in a storn
The committee were of opinion thai there seems
DO reason for remissions of this kind, any more
than of the price itself, with which the duties
paid must be understood to be incorporated. The
petitions of William Smith and Joshua Carter
were of the same nature. The whole of these
petitioners had leare granted to withdraw thi
petitions.
In the caae of Smith and Carter, the petition'
claim eompentation for a vessel lost in consequence
•f having been misled by lights under the care of
'Qorernment officers. It appeared that accident
bad destroyed one of the lights, and the principle
•Btablished by this decision of the committee
against the petition, determines that Government
cannot be responsible in this way for even the
n^tigence of the persons employed in the service
of the light-houses.
The committee, also, on the petition of Moses
Myers, recommended that he should have leave
to withdraw it. Mr. Goodhijb said that it in-
Tolved certain important points. He therefore
moved that it should be referred to the Committee
of the Whole, Wednesday b appointed.
■ WILLIAM T0MKIN8.
The report in the cue of William Tomkins,
of the coUDty of Louisa, Virginia, was taken up,
There had been a negative on this petition, during
die last session, by a report from the Committee
of Claims. Lieut. Robert Tomkins, brother to the
petitioner, returned from the American Army
with the small-poi. He infected the family.
Henry Tomkins, the father, died, and his wife and
childreD_were reduced to dii^tTess.
' remarked that Robert Tomkins
e claim incom-
petent. .
Mr. F&BKEK bad known Mr. Tomkins, who
was an officer in the regiment that he command-
died in 1777, before any commutatio:
ised, and therefore he thought the a
ed. He likewise thought the prayer of the petition
was inadmissible. Negatived.
CALEB NEWBOLD.
The report on the petition of Caleb Newbold,
and others, was next read. The petition was for
the price of a quantity of pork^ taken in the late
war, for the use of the American Army. The
father of tbepetilioner had sued the State ofPenn-
?'lvania,andiiad been refused i^yment by a jury.
he limitation act passed while this was first
depending, bo that time had been lost by an appli-
cation in the wrong quarter, but not by neg^-
On motion, by Mr. Mason, the petition was re-
ferred back to the present Committee of Claitos.
Mr. TBAcrmoved that such partsof the reports
of the Committee of CJaims, of this Congress, as
have not been acted on, with the petitions and
vouchers whereon they are founded, be r(:ferred
back to the new committee. This was agreed to.
JABEZ JOHNSON.
A report on the petition of Jabei Johnson was
taken up. He claimed nayment for sixteen new
four-pounder pieces. Tney h«d been, in 1775,
removed from New York to King's Bridge, to
prerent their falling into the hands of the British.
The petitioner knew not what became of them
afterwards. The repottwas unfavorable; bat,on
a motion by Mr. Kitcbell, the petition was re-
ferred back to the committee, because sOme new
documents have appeared since the report was
BAMDEL HENRY.
The report on the petition of Samuel Henry
wai unfavorable, and the committee made such a
report with the utmost reluctance and regret. He
had been possessed of large property in Charle»-
town, when it was burnt by the British, at the
battle of Bunker's Hill. He was reduced from
affluence almost to want, and had, not long after,
lost four sons in the war. The committee could
not grant redress for property destroyed in this
way, and the refusal of Mr. Henry's petition arose
from the absolute necessity of adhering to some
fixed rule. Multitudes of other persons were in
the same situation: and it was, as Mr. Seoowick
observed, beyond the power of this GoTemment
to salis^ such claims. Negatived.
The House then adjourned.
Tdesdat, January 12.
A bill from the Senate to regulate proeeedinga
n cases of outlawry was read a first time, By a
ipecial order of the House, it was read a second
ime — there being for a second reading 41 against
i6. This was done, and the hill was referred to
I Committee of the Whole on Monday.
Mr. W. Smitb, from the Committee of Ways
and Means, preseotedareporiof appropriations and
eipenditures for the year 179fl. The report was
read, and referred to a Committee of the Whole
House on Thursday.
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
Jinhabv, 1796.] Indian Tradrng Houtet-— Robert BandaU—J. B. Dumon.
tH. orR.
INDIAN TRADING HOUSES.
After recemnganamber of petUions, the House
weni iuio a Committee of the Whole, aa the bill
for establuhing trading houses with tue Indians.
The ChaimiBD read the bill.
A Qtiition was made to strike out of the seventh
section the words '"hs Ting jurisdiction thereof."
Mr. Parker wished the atneodmeut to be with-
drawn, lest the bill itself might be lost b^ the delay.
The iineiidinent migbt, if thought necessary, be
made in the Senate.
The imeDdTaenl produced a long conrersatjon.
At last, the Committee rose, and the CbairDaaD
raported the bill with two amendments, which
were agreed to. The bill was ordered to be en-
grosKd for a third reading to-morrow.
CASE OF ROBERT RANDALL.
A petition was preiented and read from Robert
Handall. it represented that he was under close
confinement by the orders, and during the plea-
mre, of the House. He hoiKd that his confine-
ment, aod the raprimand which he had received,
voald be jodged a sufficient atonement for any
offence or contempt which he might have com-
milted against the nooorable House. He solicited
bii releaM, and should, as in doty bound, ever
ptay, dbc.
Mr. W. Smith moved that this petition should
be made the order of the day for to-morrow. Mr.
ScnawiCE reminded the House of the petition
^seated some days ago for Whitney, soliciting
ikat the Houso would conwat tu examinr Colonel
Pvpone in his exculpation. Both petiEioQs are to
be taken up -to-morrow.
CASE OF JOHN SEARS.
A report was made on the petitiou of John Sear*.
Hesolicited paymentof arrearsof pay due to John
Fitzgerald, a soldier in the Marytuid line. Sears
had given him his own certificates, and was in
lieu of them to receive the arrears expected to be
due to Fitz^rald. On coming on to Philadelphia,
Sears found that Filz^rald Sti been returned as
■ deserter, and that his pay was of consequence
forfeited. The committee, however, entertained
suspicions that Fitzgerald might iiave been impra.-
ptrly entered as a deserter, which the man him-
self asserted. They found that Oeneral Greene,
uader whom Fiiagerald served in the Southern
States, had once, from same circumstance of mili-
ary necessity, advertised that soldiers who did not,
hy a certain day, appear at headquarters, should
w ranked as deserters. In the end. Mveral men
whose furloughs were not expired, and others whs
weteupoD duly in different quarters, w«re returned
SI deserters; and as Fitzgerald had been in the
KrviM under Greene, it oeourred that he might
come under this description. They recommended
that the proper accounting i^cers of the Trea
iury should be instructed to inquire, first, whether
Fitzgerald was really a deserter or not; and, if he
wax not, whether the certificates hai( actually been
delivered by hiro to Sears ; aad, if they were gen-
Diae, to pay them, Botwiibsiandiiig the limitation
Kl, within which, under the cirGutustances above
stated, they did not consider the case to come.
There did not appear, on the face of the trans-
action, that there had been any jobbing in the
matter, but merely that Sears had wanted to ac-
commodate Fitzgerald. This is a summary of the
Mse, as related by Mr. Tract, Chairman of the
Committee of Claims.
Mr. Giles wished to strike out of the resolution,
recommended in the repurt the words foUowiog :
" Id the same manner as though no statute of limit-
ation had barred his claim?' The fact, as ex-
plained, seemed to be that the case was not within
that statute.
Mr. TaicTwas not anxious about the words.
The committee had thought that the resolution
read better with them. He gave some reasons for
this opinion. The words were struck Oulj the
resolution passed, and the Committee of Claims
were directed to bring in a bill to that effect.
WILLIAM FINDLEY.
A report was read on the petition of William
Findlef, a soldier in the late Continental Army.
He had received, by his own account, nineteen
stabs of a bayonet, and no compensation. The
Committee ofClaimsremark, that if only the nine-
teenth pari of the story were true, he might have
had a pension long ago: there was nothing to
hinder It He brought no evidence of his asser-
tion. The House, on recommendation from the
committee, granted him leave to withdraw the
petition.
JOHN BAPTIBTB DUMON.
The House then went into Committee of the
Whole, and took up the report of the Committee
of Claims on the petition of John Baptisie Dumon.
As this report produced some debate, and as tb«
circumstances which it relates are interesting, it
here inserted at length.
" John Bapliste Dumon, of the Province of Csuada,
pny> conaidention and payment of the amount of Ibar
thoiuand three hundred and thirty-six dallan, which
he thinks in equity the United State* owe him, on the
following itatementivii; Hisfalher wuattann friend
to the American cause and Revolulian ; he hved in
Quebec, and in 17TG and 1776, being a merchant, anp-
phed the troops under General Wooiter'a command
with many artidM of dotbing.ond roceived puxr money;
diat on the 6th May, 1776, he lent Colonel John Wins-
low, Paymaster, e8S| dollars, for whidi he took hii
bond far that nun in -Continenbd bills of credit, not
an intemt, and wu to have hia money out of the first
which arrived ; that, when Oolonel Winslow was on the
Toad to Quebee, soon after the Briti^ landed, and pre-
vented h^ making the payment. Hia bthcr's house,
an the Heights of At)rBnam, was used as a hospital by
the Americans, for which reason the Britiah troops burnt
it ; and for hia attachment to the American cause his
blher was imprisoned, and snOered to a large amount.
The petidaner, after the death of his father, and peace
between Grest Britain and the United States, found
this bond of Colonel Winslow and 735 paper dollars in
his Other's desk; and on the I8th September, 1791, ha
received of Colonel Winslow the principal of the bond,
without interest, and the bond was cancelled. He now
requests a oonsideiatum far Ae interest of the sum con-
tained m the bond; for the 73BddUisd«pncialed paper;
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Indian TYading Soiue».
[Jandabt, 1796.
•sd ihiit^'dx doUui, u itated above, Hii JithBr died
in 1 TS3 i wu an iged and iuGrm mui, and the peti-
tioner a fiireigiiBi. Thcw leani U be the reumu wb;
an appliaJJOQ wu not made cajliei tlun Decembei,
1791, at which time this petition wai prefenvd, and
then refeiTed to theBecretaryof tbeTreuurji returned
without »nj report, and, on the 5th January, 1796,
Mferred to the Committee of Claimg. B; aome docD-
menta with tbia petitioti, the committee are led to believe
the actaal bille were originally lodged with the petition ;
they were not deliTsred to this committee. The com-
aitlee an of opinion the prayer of thii petitjan cannot
b« granted, and ttat the petitioner bave leave to with-
Mr. LiviHOSTOs areued for paying the interest
of the hoad granted liy Captain Winslow. He
confined himself to this point
Mr. Tbacv said, that he and the other gentle-
men of the Cooimittee of Claims would have been
Slad to gratify their fceliiies by complying with
le prayer of the petition, if it could be done on
aoy seneral principle by which business could be
got doDg. They iDougnt it impossible to comply
with the request.
It was said by some member that there might
have been an interested motire for letting the bond
lie over, in urder to eet the priucipal, interest, and
all tc^tber. To this it was replied, that there
nerer could be any rational motive for such con-
duct. The compound interest of the money chat
would be sunk must very itearly have equalled the
principal sum itself. The mallet had lain over
fifteen years. It was unjust to ascribe any such
desien to the petitioner.
lilr. Dayton said, that before gentlemen opposed
the report, they would do well to reflect. The
bond was to have been paid in Cantiuental paper
money: this had depreciated so much that Mr.
Dumon was in reality better off with > late pay-
NKnt in specie.
In answer, a zenlleman observed, that wheu he
had money in his pocket, he was entitled to con-
•ider it worth as mueh as its value at that time in
currency. Gonlincntal paper, iu 1776, was not at
all depreciated, and Mr.Dumon, he had uo doubt,
could have got it ofi'his hands at full value.
TheComraillee agreed to the report. They rose,
the Chairman reported progre**, and the House
agreed, and leave was granted to witlidraw the
petition.
Wbdnbm>av, January 13.
The fidlowiog Message was received from the
pREBinEHT or THE United States :
Gmtlemm of the Senate, and
of the House of B^traentativet
< before you an official •tatemcnt ol
the end of the year 1T96. from th ..__
toloTe granted to defray the cantingent chargea of 1)
Government.
G. WAfiHINGTON.
TTniTao Statis, January la, 1T06.
Ordered^ That (be said Mesaage and statement
do lie on tb« tkble.
in good!
dredand
A report from the Committee on Slectiou* was
presented by the Chairman, Mr. Vbhable. The
Committee reported that Mr. John Richards, a
member from the State of PennsylvaniB, was dtiljr
elected, and recommended that he be permitted to
take his seaL The report was ordered to lie oa
the table.
Mr. QiLBS, from the committee for reportiDe
on an universal system of bankruptcy, introduced
a bill, which waa made the order oi the day for*
Monday week, in Committee of the Whole.
INDIAN TSADrao HOUSES.
The bill for establishing trading houses with the
Indians was read a third time by the Clerk.
Th? Speaker )Hxiceeded to read it over again,
in order to fill up the blanks.
The first blank ia the bill was filled ap with the
words ''one thousand" before "dollars-
The second blank was for the penalty for car-
rying on any other trade with the Indians, by the
agents, than that warranted by the statute. It wa»
fiUed up with "one thousand" dollars.
Another blank was for the sum to be allowed to
Agentsand Clerks. Six thousand dollars allowed.
The blank fur the sum to be expended o
was proposed to be filled up with oi
fifty thousand dollars.
Mr. Pahkrr argued for this sum. Two hun-
dred thousand had been recommended by the Se-
cretary of State. Mr. P. told him that the fifty
thousand panted formerly would be added to the
appropriation of this year, and make up what was
wanted. He said, that, having been lately at war
with the Indians, and DBYiog nappily closed it by
a desirable peace, he hoped that measures would
betaken to preserveaperpetuat tranauilityon the
frontiers. He felt very s«n>iblT for the distressed
situation which these poor people had been in ever
since the Europeans Qrst landed in America. He
hoped that stej^ would be pursued similar to thonc
which France pursued before she lost her Colonies
on this Continent, and which have been adopted
by Britain ever since the Uaited States became
independenL It was well known, that (hongh
Carolina and Virginia had, while Colonie^ bera
in constant war with the Indians, Pennsylvania
supported a perpetual peace. No instance had
oeeutred in hiatory of a war between them till the
war of the Hevolulioa. The reason was, that the
farmer Colonies carried the sword among the In-
dians—-the latter, wagons loaded with goods. He
considered this iHeasure aot only as beneficent,
but he felt for the honor, the dignity, and the inter*
est of the country, that the sum should be liberal.
He wished that there should be at least a fair ex-
pcrinteot for two years. All ioquiries had tended
to prove to the Committee that the sum ptoposed
Mr. WiLUAMS thought an hundred thousand
dollars were enough.
Mr. HiLLHODSE was for the larger snm. Eco-
nomy, in this paaa, required the allowance to be
liberal. He did not conceive, by voting this mo-
ney, that it was to be sunk or lost, but if employed
in the mtlilary service against themj the whole
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Jahdabt, 179A.]
Indian TYadmg Ibuae*.
[H.opR.
was p>D« for erer. If tbe snin proTed lareer thta
was Decesaar; for the use inUuded, p&n of it would
Mr. Ibaac Shith and Mr. Kitcbgll concurred
in ofHDJou with the praeediag speaker. They did
not think the sum too laige.
Mr. WiLUAMB, if Id order, wouid more to post-
pooe the further coosideratiou of the bill uotit
Tuesday next. The resolutioa waa accordingly
moved and secoDded.
' Mr. G1LB8 wished, that aflet the blaoka in the
bill had liccn filled up with an hundred and tkhy
ibousaud dollars, th^ bill should lie over for some
time, till the House! have leajued from the report
of the Comnuitee of Ways and Meana what fundi
ve uaappropriated, m- what new tazei may be
wanted. The House bad afieo been nnbarmased
by voting mooey without baring {Rovided to sup-
ply it.
Mr. Macon thought it would be batter not to
All up the Eum in tbe blank of the bill, but rather
to let the whole blank* be open till the bill abould
be taken up agaiu ; for, if (hey are filled up now.
«nd the turns appropriated sbaU hereaiter be foiunJ
too large, there will be no way of touching that
part of the bill, but by referring it back to a Com-
mitiee of the Whole Houie. Tbia Uonble would
be iftred by leaving it blank.
Mr. Sbdqwic^ said, that Mr. M&oon had anti-
e»aicil the chief thing which he meant to say.
lu wished, however, to leant more of the subject
before he gave his vote for the sum. It may be
too mach, or it may be too little. He had not yet
infornwtron to determine htm on that head. There
wvre large anticipatioua on the rerenue. He
diaapproved of hurrying this a&ir, till the House
were better iuformetl about iL *
Mr. VsNABLf moved that the first Mondav of
February should be named for taking up the bill.
Hr. 8. Smith obKrved, that if the bill did
SI ibiough immediately, the season for sending to
orope lor goods would be lost. The bill would
thus be thrown back for a whole yesr.
Mr. Oallatin wished for a delaj of three or
four weeks. He would sot appropriate any part
of the war fiuds for this scheme. There is no
excess in tbe receipts over the expenditures. On
tbe other hand, from his view (h the funds, two
miUions of dollars of additional pernaueni funds
would be wanted, if anv prcwresa was to be made
in disehargine the Fuolie Debt. He would not
vole for the biU, unless there was to be a reduc-
tion in the expense of the Military Bstabliah-
neot.
Hr. Hambon said that tbe ^jeet of the bill
WW *o extremely benerolcui, that he must agree
10 the principle. He recommended a delitr-
Ur.S.SMrTB, wbohad spoken befotv Mr. CUlla-
TIM, observed, that if Iheta was a delay of the bill
il would afterwards take a month to get through
both Houses. The go<ids, if wrote for on the 1st
of April, could not be here till October. Tbey
would then be too late to answer the purpose for
tbe year. He would aak Mr. Oallatin, who
knew the back country better than be did, how it
wiKild b« poaaible to traoaport goods ihroogh it in
that season of the year. This was a way of de-
stroying the bill. Af^er making it impraeticable to
do anylhmg, gentlemen would Bay,see your 6iU/
Mr. SwANWica reccmiineaded the present mo-
ment as the most favorable to be expected foi
making invesiraeots fVoui Europe. Ten per oen*
turn would be saved by making the investments
at so favorable a time. There was also another
reason agaiast delay ; the loss of the season. He
did not approve of procrastination. We debate,
and adjourn, at a very great expense to tbe public,
and Goilly go through much less business than
we might have done.
Mr. HiLLaoosB considered this an indispensa-
ble object. He would not, perhaps, oppose a de-
lay tin Tuesday neii, but be would not agree to
a delay till the first Monday of February.
Mr. Vehable said, that hurrying the bill forward
would not answer anv end, till the House know
the funds from which Ine sums thus votedaretoba
defrayed. The ten per centum upon iuvestmems
could not be sared at present, as suggested by the
gentleman from PennsylTania, for ibougb tbe act
were pBE^ed, the money cannot be had for a con-
sideranle time to come. It is impossible, by any
degree of haste^ to bring over the goods from
Coglaud before next t^'aU. Every gentleman in
this House may know, that it is impossible 10
have them, here before next Pall.
Mr. GiLEB was exceedingly dt^iaeed to doubt
whether the bill, if passed, would produce any of
the good ccnseqnenees expected from it,, notwith-
standing that he was in the habit of trusting moob
to the judgment of those frcun whom it came.
There is, at this time, no money is the Treosary
but what has been already aunapriated. The
delay till Febriwiy is nominal, but not real, since,
from the want of cash, we cannot take advantage
of tbe present rate of exchange. )t was said that
this rise in favor of America was owing to the in-
teuded Britieh expedition against tiie French
islands in the West Indies. If the sappoeitioa wna
true, Mr. Q. apprehended little danger that the
rate of exchange in tavor of the United States
would lessen for several months to come. He
would rather imagine that it had not yet arrived
at its height. This kind of conjecture was, how-
ever, too vague to build any public measures upon.
He would vote for the delay till he sawwhat funds
could be ascertained for discharging the sums ap-
propriated by the bill.
The question was then to be taken on ike two
resolutions before the House, the one for post-
poning till Tuesday, and the other till the first
Monday of February.
By the rules ot the Honse tbe latter resolution,
— "iluding tbe greatest length of time, —
taken firsL "it was 'carried — yea>46 nays 40. I
the bill ...... -i
the bill stands 0
■ 45 nays 40. t
It Monday of F
Mr. Claiborng read a resolution for tequeeting
the pBEainENT to lay before Ckingrcss a statement
of the number of trading houses which would be
necessary, of the diflbrent apeciea of goods, and of
the sums of money which wiH be requisite to
carry on iniorcoune with the bdian tribes.
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Randall and Whiiney.
[JAND4KT, 1796.
Mr. Giles said that the House knew as much
on this subject as the pREemeNT. He hoped tbat
the motioD would be withdrawn. It was in fact
teltiog the Prbsidekt to pass the bill. Lai^t year
« requisition of this nature was made to the Fbe-
aiDENT, who, in the opinion of Mr. O., acted with
much propriety. He sent it at once to the Secre-
tary 01 War, and thus.took away all responsibility
from himself.
Mr. Pabegk thought some resolution of this
nature to he proper. He did not know whether
the present one was strictly proper or not. It bad
lieen hinted by some former speaker, that the
■elect committee might be expected to gire parlt-
cuiar ioformation. They had performed the duty
asugned to them, and had now no more concern
with the subject than any other members of the
. Mr. Vbmiblb expected that the committee.
though not strictly bound to do so, would give all
the information in their power. This they might
do, and it would be of use: They could stale their
reasons for recommending particular clauses in
the bill.
Mr. Claibobrb said, that his reason for pro-
posine the resolution was in order to obtain net-
' n tban what he at present had. He
now on this subject.
Mr. Pabkib wished to strike out the word
"President," and insert "the Secretary of the
Treasury." He would then vote for it.
Mr. GoonnDG was against the resolutioa. He
obserred, that the official duty of the Secretary
did not lead him to such a knowledge any more
than that of any member of the House.
The Spbakeb then reminded the House, tbat
there was a communication from the Secretary of
War upon this subject, which had not yet been
read to the House. This was No. 4, which was
■ecordingly read.
The resolution offered by Mr. Claibobri: was
Begatired without a division.
RANDALL AND WHITNEY.
On motion of Mr. CARiBTiE,the House took up
the petition of Robert Randall, and on motion of
Mr. Skdowick, that of Charles Whitney.
Mr. W. Smith moved that Randall should be
discharged from the custody of the Sergeant-at-
Arms, on payment of the fees. He said that the
Ktitioner had been guilty of a great offence ; but
was willing to dismiss him. He had suffered
•ome imprisonmcBt, and been put to expenses
with lawyers. The House could not however
discharge him from the custody of the City Mar-
ahel. They might apply lo the Pbescdbkt, that
there should be grantea a noUe vratemd.
Mr. SwANWicK objected to the style of ihe pe-
tition as not auffieiently submifiire. The passage
he ditapprored was in these words ; '' any o&ace
or contempt which, in the opinion of the honor-
able House, he may hare committed." The pri-
•oner ought to hare acknowledged bfs guilt. Mr.
8. wms sorry to be obliged, from a sense of duty.
to oppose the prayer qf the petition. This paper
looked like an insult upon the House. The peti-
tion was, at the desire of a member, read a second
Mr. MuRBAY did not think tbat the petition
could have been more delicately worded. The
prisoner was still liable to prosecution from the
Attorney General. A confession in thia House
might operate against him. Hr.M. bad felt much
uiin in being obliged to lodge a complaint again tt
Randall. He would vote with pleasure to dis-
charge him.
Mr. SwANwicK, in answer, said,- that the re-
marks of the member from Maryland bad brought
new ideas into his mind. He withdrew his ol>-
jection ; but saw no reason for the House to eo
further, or to mteifere against a prosecution by
the Attorney General.
Mr. Reed, from Massachusetts, spoke in farnr
of the disc barge.
Another member hoped that the House would
not interfere tn stop the proceedings b» the Attor-
ney General. He would suffer too little if dis-
charged now. He was proceeding at length
affainst the House interfering for a noUeproMTui,
The Speaker rose: He observed that arguments
as to the prosecution before the Attorney General
were irr^ular. The only resolution before the
House was as to dismissing Randall from the cuii-
tody of the Sergeant-al-Arms. He made these
observations with pain, but they were requiaite.
The House agreed to the request of Raudail.
The petition of Charles Whitnev was then
read, Mr. SEnowioE moved that Ine prayer of
the petition should be granted ; and that Whitney
should be allowed to eihibil the evidence of Colo-
nel Silas Pepune, and enter it on the Journals of
the House.
It was objected aa not in order to move to bring
up B paper not yet, as it appeared, in existence- ■
Mr. Macon moved to insert the word "not;"
that Whitney should not be allowed, dbe.
Mr. W. Smith thought Whitney was entitled
to enter this evidence. He had never been heard
in his defence. He had, no doubt, behaved very
ill in the business. Mr. S. made no question of
his being an associate with Randall; hut still his
vindication had not been admitted. He had been
diseharged without an acqniital. Randall was
alloweatbe use of counsel. They had been pei^
milted to examine members of the bar. Randall
had been asked if he could produce any witnesses
in bis defence ; and if he had offered twenty wit-
nesses they would have been examined. To enter
this evidence of Colonel Penane, Mr. S. consi-
dered af a point of right and ju.stice.
Mr. MnnaAT was satisfied that the deposition
of the member from Vermont [Mr. Buck] was
stricdy true. He could entertain no scruple about
the truth of the charge; but let that and the evi-
dence go to the world together.
Another member considered the petitioa of
Whitney as an insult. He hoped that the House
would not pay as much resprct to it as to take a
question upon it He bad said at the bar of thii
;dbvG00gle
145
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Janoart, ITOO.J
Cmnmerciai Reetrietwna.
House that Mr. Pepune was his paTtnet, and now
we are desired to lei his partner come and give
evideace in his AiTor He would as soon permit
Randall himself to come to the bar in defence of
Whitney. He believed Whitney to be just as
guilty as the other, and thought that his confine-
ment should have Lasted, in point of jasiice, as
Iodk; though he was willmg to get rid of both as
eartV as possible.
Mr. Sedowice said that he had only one idea
to state. He coosidertd Colonel Pepune as a com-
petent evidence. The House had seen the origi-
nal bond, which contained nothing unjustifiable
in it. Whitney did not, in his examination at the
bar, sa^, tliat Mr. Pepune had been concerned in
any thing criminal, nor was there any reason to
thuk so. If an agreement is made on honest prin-
eiplei, and afterwards one of the partners starts
ofi from tbe original idea into any thing bad, no
Uame can rest on bis Original associates. Ad
honest partner may be properly called in lo exeul-
pite him, if it can be done. Mr. S. cared rery
little whether the question was carried or not ;
and saw no reason for that Ivdy indignation which
had been expressed about it.
Mr. HiLLHODse thought that to enter this de-
position on the Journals would be the height of
absnrdity.
Mr. Kbeeman began to speak, when Mr. Beim-
WJCK rose and declared that he withdrew his n
tion. He never would have proposed it, had
expected so strong an opposition.
It waa then moved to Bdjonm. The Speak
addressed the House. He said that as decorum
waf highly necessary in the House, he was sorry
at being obliged lo ob.terre, that tbe business of
the House had this day been very considerably
inlerrnpied by strangers on the right hand side of
the Speaker's Chair. He was therefore obliged
torequestof members, that no strangers whom tney
might introduce, should go upon the right hand
side of the Chair, but to turn to the left band side,
(that is, towards the railery.) till some new order
of the House was made on the subject. Members
of the Senate will always have chairs placed for
tbem on the right hand side of the Speak '
Chair, an long as thej continued to give a per
sion of the same kind in their Chamber, K
EDcmbers of this House.
After these remarks, the Speakbr, at half
two o'eloek, adjourned the Honse.
lv, January U.
This da^ the House met at the nsual time.
After reading tbe Journals ot yesterday bv the
Cleik, the Speaibk informed the House, that it
would be necessary for them to elect a gentleman
to Ae Chair for this day in his place, as, from
want of health, he was incapable of giving longer
atlenduice. The House immediately. adjourned.
FainAY, January 15.
COMMERCIAL RESTRICTIONS.
Mr. B. Smith called up the resolution, which he
n the Clerk's table some days ago, for restrict-
^. >reign vessels, that they shall only bring into
the harbors of the United States, the growth, pro-
duct, and manufactures of the respective countries
which ibey belone- He moved that this reso-
ioQ should be rei^rred to a Committee of the
Whole House.
Mr. HiLLHouHB recommended referring this re-
lolution to the Committee of Commerce and
Manufactures, as tbe subject was rather new.
It was objected by a member, that this refer-
ice could only tend ta procrastinate the dectsion,
e had no doubt that this Committee would re-
port the resolution as it stood. There are nodocu-
ents in the hands of the Committee which are
It before the House.
Mr. SwANWicc. — The principle is not a new
le ; but a very old one. It has been adopted, in
a greater or less degree, by the most distinguished
maritime nations. France has, at present, per-
mitted a partial suspension of it, on account of
tbe exigencies of the war. In Britain, the princi-
ple is above an hundred years old. it was the
foundation of alt her greatness by sea. He did not
wish to object to ibis reference, if necessary, for
digesting the principle. Of its propriety, he had
Mr. HiLLnoDBE replied, that maay British
writers regarded tbe act of oavigatiou as having
been injuriou-s to the commerce of England. The
propriety of adopting that resolution rested not on
the principle abstractedly; but. whether the cir-
cumstances of the United Slates rendered such a
step eligible. He thought that a few members
would oe better for digesting the resolution, in the
first instance.
Mr. Madison was of opinion, that all important
propositions, and especially all those of an abstract
nature, should be referred, in the first place, to a
Committee of the Whole House. There could
(Hily be two reastws for referring, upon any occa-
sion, toB select committee: either wnen there was
an absolute want of time lor the House to digest
the subject themselves; or when anjr particular
papers or docnments were to be examined. Thia
case wes clearly not one of those. He recom-
mended a Committee of the Whole in the first
place. The general rule of propriety required it.
Mr. OoonncB was in fiiror of a reference to the
Committee of Commerce and Maoufiictures. He
had not yei fixed in his own miud whether the
resolution was right or otherwise.
Mr. MuHBAV was for a select committee. Tbe
question would be more accurately investigated,
and information more readily collected there than ^
in a Committee of the Whole House. It was not
so much to be discussed as a general abstract prin-
ci()le; but. as whether, froia a consideration ol
the present circumstances, it was an advisable
measure. This could only be learned from a par-
ticular detail of facts.
Mr. OiLBERT. — Tbe present question is not per-
haps of the greatest importance, for it relates only
to the mode of bringing the proposition with the
most advantage belore the view and consideration
of the HouM. This House has lately appointed
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HJSTORT OF CONaEESS.
248
[. OF R.]
CommerckU Rettrictuau.
{SuntA»y, 1796^
stwiding committees for couidering certain par-
tietilar subjects. The queslba now is, whethe|:
the propoeitioii befoie cue Hduse do^s or does not
relate lo ibe general ground or branch of the sub-
ject of ej)y one of those setecl committees. If it
TatU within the genera) view or deparlmenl of
any of ibese committees, it clearly ought to go
to such commilteej in purauance of the system
adopted here for doing business. Mr. Q. believed
that the res(dution obriously related to the busi-
ness of the Committee of Commerce and Manu-
; it ought to be well considered
minate investigation of the &cts. It it were a
Eroposition respecting revenue, it would, without
esitation,be referrea to the Committee of Ways
■ad Means; and if we would uniformly pursue
die course of iransacting the business lately set-
tled by the House, there would be no hesitation
in referring the proposition, in the first instance,
to the Committee of Commarce. He wished to
seethe proposition presented lo the House, accom-
panied with all (be facts necessary to be consider-
ed in deciding on its merits. This, he thought,
could only be expected bv the special inquiry and
investigation of (hat s tanning committee, lo which
be hoped that the resolution would, in the firsi
insEance, be refened.
Mr. 3. SxTTH obaerved, that he saw no use in a
tefereoce to a select committee, but to procrasti-
nate the business. He alluded to the Committee
of Commence and Manufactures ; a Committi
of Navigation has been mentioned — there is i
Bueb comraiilee-;-and he insisted that there wi
no propriety in a reference to the above standing
committee. Mr. S. alluded to the late Treaty,
said to have been concluded with Great Britain,
and remarked that the proposition he had brought
forward, contained the only provision which was
left us by that Treaty to save our commerce from
prostration. Mr. S. wid the public business was
greatly delayed by postponements; six weeks have
already elapsed, and scarcely aoythingwiu done.
Mr. BosBNBwas infarorof eseleet eommitteej
and he urged the competency of the CtMnmiitee
of Commerce and Manufactures to tnke the sub-
ject into consideration ; subjects of commerce are
counected with those of navigaiion, and so vice
versa. Mi. B. did not see the propriety of intto-
ducing the Treaty on Che carpet. The question
is simply, whether the resolution shaU be referred
to the Committee of the Whole or to a select
Mr. OiLBS could not frame an idea of anything
that was to be learned from such a select commit-
tee, unless they were to report a commercial his-
tory of the size of an ordinary volume. The re-
Sort of a late Secretary of Stale [Mr. JaFFEBSon]
ad condensed ibe whole information, which, at
its date, could be obtained; and this paper is now
before the House. All that possibly remained to
be done, was to add the kislory of commerce from
the time of that report to the present. No specific
report could arise liom them, but only the other I
orer again. The resolutions above ■llml.il to had '
been referred to a Committee of the Whole, ba-
cause the subject was general. The same reason
would apply now, as tnis was an important prin-
ciple. More informatioawiU be had on the floot
of this House than can be bad from any select
committee. He was against any delay that could
be avoided.
Mr. OooDBOG admitted the right of the United
States to lay such restrictions. ' The expediency
alone was doubtful ; end this was his only reason
for wishing Chat the iiubject*shouid be referred to
a select committee ; thai facts and circumstancea
might direct the House. He had not yet formed
hi* opinion on this resolution. '
Mr. Seoowick had not yet made up his opinion.
He asked where gentlemen learned that there was
a disposition in any pan of cbeHoiise Co piatcaet
the discussion. He thought the teference to Mr.
Madihoh'b resolutions rather unfortunate, fur, af-
ter a verv ling discussion, the House camejouly
to a preliminary rewlutioo, which was douhtful
in its meaning. Mercantile people might easily
complete their ideas ; but farmers might not be so
prompt on a subject new to them. Mr. S. recom-
mended a select committee, Itecause, in one of the
Whole House, the debate would be desultorv. The
former would enter more minutely into the mlf
ject, and feel a degree of anxiety and responsibili-
ty. They would be more deliberate. Qentlemen
were wrong in supposing this a subject of party.
No gentleman here could have any interest aepa.-
rate from that of the United States.
Mr. Baluwin was in favor of a reference to a
Committee of the Whole, in the first place ; ihts
was agreeable to the practice of the House, froia
which the happiest effects had resulted. After the
Committee of the Whole had discussed the propo-
sition, the subject may then be referred Coaselect
committee.
Mr. Paqe was in favor of a reference to a Com-
mitcce of the Whole. He thought every subject
should come before Che members of this House,
unaccompanied with the opinions of the select
oommitteeor of any individual whatever; thiswns
consonant to the general practice of Che House ;
Cbis would divide Cbe responsibilic^r of public men-
surcs. He had no opinion of baviog public mea-
sures smuggled into the House, no one could tell
how. Let every proposition be submitted fiairty
to the Committee of the Whole; in this waya.ge-
neral result will be obtained, and the sentiments
of the majority will be fairly drawn forth.
Mr. HiLLaouBE denied any intentional desien
of delay. How that bad been lugged into Ibe &-
bate be did not know. He had no di^tosition for
husclingbusiness through the House. In the course
of this conversaCion, he bad somewhat changed
his opinion ; and was ready to go into a Comaiit-
1 ol the Whole immediately. He was wiUiikg
take ic up here. Ic might n^t be sent to a se-
lect committee, and come back to the House. All
this would throw so much more light upon the
Mr. Tracv whs not for making laws by the rod.
we ^t through the session wilboat doing any
miicbief, it is, 1 tbiBk,(aaid Mr. T.,) agreat point
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HBTOBT OF CONGRESS.
J&NO&BY,I79&]
CivU AppTepriati4mt — Ceatuted EUetian.
Mr. SwAMWicK IhouKh^ it was a proud day for
liu Uoiied Slatei, when their Re preaeDta lives
were to meet for the discussioa of so gteaX a sub-
ject He had nol so low a. hope aa the member
fiom Conaecticui, that we might merely do no
miKchief. He hoped that we should do good, per-
haps, more than any of our predecessors. He was
for a Committee of the Whole House.
Hr. Seduwick was for a select committee first,
for.aflei discuwiag in a Committee of tb^ Whole,
ii would be putting thebart before the boiseBom-
pletelf , lo aend it to a select oommitlee for iu-
formatioti. They will have nothing to do, but to
dt>wabilL
Bj t Ur^ majority, it was agreed to take up
the resotutioo, in a CommiiUe of the Whole on
Wedoesday nezL
CIVIL APPROPBIATIONS FOR 1798.
The House went mio a Committee of the Whole,
OD the report of the Commillee of Ways and
Means, containing an estimate of the appropria-
tions for the public service for the year 1798.
The Committee proceeded through the report
^tbont alteration or debate ; the Cli^iipuui made
his report accordingly.
The House took the same into consideration.
Mr. W11.LT&MS moved that the clause conlain-
ing the items for the Mint Establishment should
be postponed for furiher caosideration ; the whole
nbjecl of the Mint is now referred 10 a Commit-
tee of the Whole, and the sense of the Committee
retDaius to be known. la the present situation of
the businesa, be was not prepared to give a vote
on tbc subject. The motion for a postponement
was not seconded. The Spbakek then put the
question on the several parts of the report, which
were iigreed lo; and the Committee of Ways and
Means were directed to bring in a bill or buls ac-
coidingly.
MOHDAT, Jamoary 18.
CASE OF WILLIAM LITTLE.
Mr. QooDBUG, Chairman of the Committee of
Commerce and Man u fact uies, pursuant to instruc-
tionifrom that comoiiitee, moved that they should
be discharged from further consideration of the
Gtition or William Little, merchant in Boston.
r. Little bad shipped for Europe seventy-one
Up of New England rum. Forty were, with
difficulty, sold at Cadiz. The remainder were
Inought back, tad, by some miatake, a custom-
bouse officer seized them- The peiitioner prayed
for restitution or compensation. The motion of
Hr. G. waa agteed to. He then iDored l)iat the
peiitioa should be referred to the Secretary of the
Treaiary ; whkh was also agreed to.
COKTE8TBD BLECnONS.
The report of the Committee on Elections, made
on the 13tb of January, 1796, on the memorial of
lohn Richard»,cameupnextin order. Theformer
itport at this committee, was dated iha 18th of
December last. The presenr report has finally de-
tetmmed the i^uettion in fovor of Mr. Richards.
The following is an abstract of the Report :
" On the second Taeadi^ of October, 17M, an elec-
tion was held in the connties of Bucks, Narthunplon,
and Mantgomerj, in the State of PennsjlTuiia, for
electing a member lo the Hau>e »f RepresenlatiTes of
Congress. On the same day, the militia of thai district
who had marched on ths Weatera expedition, held an
election bi the nine purptae.
" The law ot the State, made tbi that epaciBl end, di-
rects, that the coun^ Judges of tha election«, ■"■t^^
of meeting on the third Tuesday of October, a« Sarnua-
ly, abould meet on the 10th of November. The aitny
dection retumi wtfis to be aeot forward by, that da; to
(he Prothonotaiiei of the reapective countiae, and tha
Prothonotariea were lo deliver them over to the county
Judges, to enable them to make their letunu. The
district Judges were to meet on the 15th November,
five days after the coun^ Judges, toeiamiae the coun-
ty returns to make an estimate of all the votea, and to
return, m Repctaentative for the district, the candidal^
who had the higheet number of votoe.
" Thffcoun^Judgee, agreeably to law, met on the iMl >
of November, ITM. At lUilUM,iioanD;iMaf«alud
been receivad, «iceptiBg from the militia ot Noithsap-
"Afteitliell»h,BndbatbrelklBAQfNovwi^iar, tha
aimy returns of the county of MeBtgaaie^ were la-
ceiyed by the Prolhooalai; of tha county. Be ddtvertd
them to eome of the county Judges. Two of thaae niade
up a return, and certified it, on, the 14th of Novemh^,
to be a true return of the votes that had come to their
" On the IStb at November, the district Judges met,
agreeably to law. There was then laid before tbem the
last-menlioned return, made by the couo^ Judge* of
Mantgomeiy, with the respective letonu of the coun^
elections, and the onginal return of the election held t^
the mihtia of Northampton, on whkh the return above
redled, dated the Uth of NovwnbM, 17M, 60m the
county Judges, was fcunded. The district Judges r^
ported, that by the gcDeral retnin of the coon^ elee-
tiona, and that of the Northampton ■"'l''»f, Jamea Hoc
ris had the highest number of Totes, to wit: 1,MS.
" By the Montgomery mihtia return, as put into Iba
hands of the district Judges, John Ridiarda had 1B9
votes, and James Morris 58. This number, together
with an the other votes, on the other returns, in &vor of
John Richards, amounted to 1,791, and those tor James
Morris to 1,706. At this time, no retonu bad come
to hand from the Bucks county mihtia.
"On the IBlh of November, after the above report had
been made to the Goremor of Pennsylvania, certain pa-
pers were lodged with the Secretary of State. They
purported to be a return of the voles from the Bucks
county miHtia. They were unaccompanied bj any list .
of tiie names of the voters, at the election, nor bed any
CeitiHeatea of their having been eiimined by theconnqi
Judge*. On this return, it is stated that Jamea Morris
had ninety-one votes.
" On thise grounds the petitioner slates, that he is
entitled to aaeat m the House :
" Ist. Because, upon an estimats in the retuma {mn
dueed before the diabiet Judges, on the 16th of Novem-
ber, iucluding the M<HitgDm«ry militia, he has 1,791
votea, and James Morris 1,706.
" Sd. Let the army returns, both tor Montgomery and
Bucks be rejected. Take then the army retunu for
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS,
>pR.]
Contested Election— l^omage and Imports.
f JamuiHt, 1796.
NortbunptoQ. SixtMn tdIm were giiva by penom
nnqualifieii, anil ttro bj pioiy. Deduct theae eighteeii,
uidhehas 1,636, to 1 ,630 for James Morria.
" 3d. If you Rdmit the whole army to1« lor each of
the three coiintiea, of Bucki, Northampton, and Hont-
gomery, and strike out the eighteen bad votee, on the
Northsmpton return, Mr. Richards would still have
1,791 T0l«, agunit 1,779 for the late Mr. Morris."
The conuuilleewere of opinion, first, that the
Montgomery return ouf ht to have been receiTed
by the District Judges, ae it came to the County
Jadffes before the ISch of November, the time pre-
scribed by law for the District Judges to meet.
Second. That the Backs county return ought
to have been rejected, as never having been exam-
ined by the Countv Judges, and being unaccom-
panied by a liEt of (he voters.
Third. Thai sixteen votes in the Northampton
militia were given by persons not on the lax lists
of the county, and orherwise not in ihed-scriiJiiun
of freeholders. Two other votes were hy proxy.
The committee recommend the followmg ri'so-
Reaahtd, That John Ridiarda is dnly elected as one
of the RepreKnlativta fbi (he diatiict compoeed of the
countiea of Bucks, Northampton, and Monigomeir, in
the State of Pennaylvaaia, and that the aaid John Rich-
aids be permilttd to take his seat
Mr. SEcawicE moved that the further consider-
ation of this business should be postponed till to-
morrow. His reason for this was the absence of
Mr. SiTGBPAVEB, the only member, as it appears,
in (he House who was possessed of full informa-
tion as to the facts and circumstances relative to
the business before the House.
Mr. Vekable, Mr. Gallatin, Mr. Swift, and
Mr. FuiDLET, severally objected to any delay. Mr.
BoDRNE argued in favor of it. i
Mr. Parker supposed that nothing had been
aaid on the side of Mr. Morris, because the gen-
tleman himself was dead, and bis family did not
concern themselves about the matter. There
might have been evidence.
Mr. SwANwiCKsaid tha( the Journals were c<
ered with motions of adjournment. He saw
^ood purpose that could possibly be answered by
i(. One member of the Btate Legislature is at
sent, and i>ecause his leave of absence expires (hi
day, we are to have the additional loss of anodie
member. He saw no occasion for such a wast
Mr. Giles opposed further delay. He wasgen-
erally Rgaiqst motioos of adjournment; nor could
he discover any use for it in the present instance.
Mr. NicHou>8 thought that if Mr. Sitoaeaveb
isessed any material information, he might
re laid it before the House in an early part of
the business.
Mr. HiRTt^Y recommended a delay of one day,
which could do no harm, and would be
tiatactory to the mind of the public.
Mr. Murray argued for a delay. The first re-
port had been against Ricbardb ; and if any gen-
tleman had since wanted to oppose him, his vivi-
laoce mi|^t be slackened by hearing ■ that the
former report was against Mr. RioHARDEt. Mr.
C
Murray did not know that he would object to the
second report, bui he wished it ikot tobe toomuch
hurried.
Mr. GALL.ATIN. The whole ground of opTiosi-
tion to the report is on this idea : that some ficla
may come out which are not yet proved. Now,
every fact and circnmstance concerning the
transaction, was published sizmcmthsago by the
Giovemor,
Mr, Hartley could conceive no incoBvenience
resulting from a postponement of one day. The
badness of the weather had probably prevented
Mr. SiTOREATEsfrom coming forward. He thought
it highly probable that Mr. Richardh was enli-
tied to (he seat.
Mr. SwANWiCK said that the case was of leas
importance than the principle on which it went.
Why should a gentleman be kept out of his seat
even one day for a surmise 7 He thought it high-
ly unjust to postpone the matter, even ios one day.
It is an old saying, that sufficient for the day is the
evil thereof; but we are going further, by antici-
pating the evil of future days. It would be a very
extraordinary mode of reasoning to keep one mem-
ber out of bLi seat because another member waa
Mr. Parker said that, if we take up this report
to-day, we shall perhaps be sorry for it to-morrow.
Of Mr. RtcHAxna or his constituents he knew
nothing, but he thought it likely that, before the
gentleman was warm in his seat, there would be
a petition against him. Mr. Parker had no other
motive for wishing a delay for one day.
Mr. Venablb said there was a mistake in as-
serting that (he first report had been against Mr.
RicHARDB. This' was not (he case. Mr. Sit-
OREAVES had not mentioned to the House any in-
formation that could be expected to reverse the
report ; nor had any other person come forward
with any such. If any gentleman will say that
new evidence has come out, let the report be re-
committed. If there is none, let us proceed tt) de-
cide upon it. This report has been sii weeks in
the hands of the committee.
On motion of Mr, Macon, it was ordered thai
Mr. RicDARca should in the mean time have a
chair placed for him within the bar of the House.
This was accordingly done.
The report was amended to read thus :
"Resohed, That John Richards ia entitled to take his
eeat in this House aa one of the Repre^ntatiiea fiom
the Stale of PennsylTania."
The resolution was then agreed to uDanimously.
Mr. RicBARoe was immediately qaalified, and
took his seat
TONNAGE AND IMPORTS.
On motion, it was
Ree<^ved, That the Secretary of the Treasury
do reporta comparative view of the tonnage em-
ployed in the trade between the United States and
foreign countries, for tbe years 1790, 1791, 1798,
1793, and 1794 ; and that he report the actual ton-
nage of vessels of the United States employed iit
I tbe years 1790 and 1704, between the United
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mSTOKT OP CONGRESS.
Jahdadt, 1796.J
Contetted Election — ApproprialUm*.
[H-c
Stales aod forei(:a countries, beoinuiag for each
year, agreeably to the practice of itie Treasnry.
And, on motiOD, it was further
Resolved, Tfakt the SecreUrjr of the Treasury
lay before this House a statemenl of the goods,
wares, and merchandise imported auDually into
the United States, with their value, Jince the
thirtieth of September, one thotuand seTen huo-
dred and eighty-nine, discriminating the amount of
the articles importedin ships or vessels of the Unit-
ed Stales from the articles imported io foreign
shipa or ressels.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr. Vehablb, from the Committee of Elections,
to whom was referred the petition of Burwell Bas-
set!, of the State of Virgmia, coitiplaining of an
undue election and return of John Clapton, to
scrre as a member of this House for the said State,
made a report, which was read ; whercui>on,
Orderrd^ That Wednesday next be assigned 10
Uke the said report into coasideratioo.
Mr. W. Smith reported a bill from the Com-
mittee of Ways and Mean», making appropria-
tioas for the year 1796 ; which was read k firat
time.
After the reception and reference of several pe-
titions, The House adjourned.
Wbdnebvat, January 19.
APPROPRIATIONS FOB 1796.
The House went into Committee of the Whole
on the bill making appropriations for the support
of Gorernment in the year 1796.
Mr. Williams, agreeably to notice giren on a
former day, moved to strike oat all that gross sum
appropriated for the officers of the Mint.
Mr. W. Smith said thai a great proportion of
the sum was for salaries established by law. They
must be paid, till the law is repealed. If the gen-
tlemBD means to suspend the whole appropriation
bill till an inquiry ia gone through with respect to
the Mint, the bill may be delayed fortwo mouths,
and tiie consequence be the greatest embarrass-
ment in Government.
Mr. Jeremiah Smith had never been mujh in
favor of the Mint, nor had experience increased
his good opinion of it. But passing this appropri-
ation bill would not prevent a full investigation of
this subject hereafter. He was for deferring any
proceeding about the Mint till the select eommit-
lee made their report. He opposed the motion.
Mr. Sbdowick thought that the course which
the gentleman is pursuing had nerer been adopt-
ed before. It is incorrect to dlscun the merits of
the Mint in passing this bill. We might as well
take up the (alary of the Chief Justice, or auy
other article in (be btll, as the Mint. We never
should hare done, at this rate. We are now only
to vote for the bill, as agreeably to the bwK al-
ready made. Mr. Sbdowicc said that if the gen-
tleman from New York [Mr. Williami] would
bring forward any proposition for the regalation,
or even the abolition of the establishment of the
Hint, if it could be proved prodootire of public
benefit, he, with every other gentleman, would
give him their aid to effect the object ; hi'.t that
now, he conceived, < it could not regularly, be
brought forward. He thought an appropriation
bill should be conformed exactly to the state of
the public engagements, and that where establish-
ments had' been formed and salaries provided, the
amount of (hem should be the principle of calcn-
lating the amount of appropriaticHis ; and thai the
House ought not, by withnolding appropriations,
"0 break in upon and de&troy establishments form-
id by the whole LeKialalure. That these obser-
vations had hitherto been sanctioned by the prae-
on this subject. He observed, that if the
Be was to investigate, in the discussion of an
appropriation bill, the amonnt of salaries and the
legal eslabHsbments of Oovernment, the public
service would be dangerously destroyed. He re-
marked, that it was to be observed thai no appro-
priation was made, for any purpose, since the com-
mencement of the year.
Mr. GALI.&T1II felt alarmed at the principle ad-
vanced by Mr. SEnawtci, for, if admitted, it might
be applied in future on some other end important
occasion. Tbe motion made by the member from
New York ought not, perhaps, to be adopted ; but '
there was certainly a discretionary power in the
House to appropriate or not to appropriate for any
object whatever, whether ibat object was autho-
rized by law or not. It was a power vrbich, how-
ever inexpedient on the present occasion, was rest-
ed in this House for the purpose of cheeking the
other branches of Government whenever necessa-
ry. That such a ri^ht was reserved by this body,
appeared from their making only yearly appro-
pnationsboih for the support of the Civil List and
ofthe Military Establishment. Had they meant to
give up the right, ihey would have such appro-
priations permanent. There was one instance in
which this House had thought it proper to aban-
don the right. In order to strengthen Public Cre-
dit, they had consented that the payment of inte-
rest on thedebt should notdependon their sole will,
and they bad rendered the appropriation for that
object not a yearly, but a permanent one. When-
ever that was not the ease, and the right had been
reserved, it was contradictory to suppose that the
House were bound to do a certain act, at the same
lime that they were exercising the discretionary
power of voting upon iL
Mr. SsnowTDK said that he certainly had no in-
tention to have given occasion to the observations
which had been made ; but, as the e^neral prin-
ciple which he had laid down had Iteen denied,
and as it had some relation, either intimate or re-
mote, to the subject before the committee, he
would take the liberty lo repeat the principle, and
say a few words in support of it.
The principle, then, which he had asnirasd, was,
thai when legal establishmenis were made, it was
the duly of the Legislature to make appropria-
tionii conformably to the public engagements; and
that neither branch had a right to withhold its a«-
sent. He obserred that the whole Legislature,
and not a part, were eompetent to foRn contraela,
and to eslablisn and alter compenaationt and salBi-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
lies. The Legislature, and not either braneb of
it, had ihe power of expressiog the public will,
aod pledging the public biih; ihat when a sala-
ry ii ascertaioed, tlie pablic faith ia pled^d that
it shall be paid, accoromg to the stipulatioD ; and
that, tberefore, the PubTic .Credit u JDvoJved in
making the neoessary appropriations, withool
which ii could Dot be paid. He asked, if, in tueh
a c&ie, it was competent to the House nghtfuUy
to wiibbold the means necessarj for the perfbnn-
-soce of the public engsgemeot ?
He said be bad always supposed that the power
of the House, ia the caseof aDpropriattons, i^dnot
give a power to yield or vithliold assent on such
ft subject. He believed, in erery sUcb instance,
the exercise of diacretion was restrained. To il-
lu>Lraie,bis ideas, he could mentiiHi a similar in-
alanoe. The ConiitLtulion had declared that the
President should receive a stated compensation
for bifi uerfices, to be ascertained by law, which
could neither be diminished nor enlarged durins
the term for which he should bare been elected.
Here wa* a duty imposed on the Legislature, with
the performance of which they could not, they
bad DO power to dispense. Yet, after the coiopen-
sation was stated, no pay meat could be made in
aoDsequeBce of apptopriatitiK. He asked, if, in
this case, when the public will was expressed, the
engagement and the national faith pledged, the
Legislature conM of right withhold the necessary,
■[^opriaiion 1 The same obsetrations might, he
Hid, be applied to every iostanee where public
contracts were formed. The public faith was
pledged, the necessary appropriation must be
made to prevent a violation of it ; and if wilb-
held, such violation might justly be charged on the
Legislature.
Mr. WtLUUf9waswillingto«oiifinetheTesoln'
lulntion to one clause — thacfor purchasing copper
for the use of the Mint
Mr. Dayton (the Sfbaebk) took up the reso-
tion of amendment on the ground of expodieucy.
He thought it was loo extensive. It was like
t^n^^ing a side wiad against an institution es-
tablished by law. 1 am free, said M. D., to
daclare that the Mint has not answered the
expectations of the Legislature that founded it.
An impression is made on the public mind that it
has been conducted with negligence. He would
have agreed to the resolution, if it was only to
atrike out the new purchase ofcoppav. He wish-
ed to wait for further information, till the report
of the select committee was given iu.
Mr. W1L1.1AMB asreed to restrict his motion as
pointed out by the SpEAaaa. He stated the enor-
ncus expense of the Mint — out of all proportion
to any possible utilitv. He wished to have the
subject fairly before (de House. His resolution,
an amended, was to strike out the following words:
" For the purehase of copper for the uae of the
Mint ten thousand dollars."
Mr. Nic[ioi.Aa was for the resolution. It bad
been ur^d that the House were to rass the ap-
propriatioD bill as a matter of course. He thought
otherwise. The Hoase, iu enacting a law, were
entitled to coiuidei all its coBseqaeaeea.
down a pound weight of centp into a lump of cop-
Cr, and takes this lump back again to (he Mint,
will receive more money for it than what it
was worth in cents. Thus the whole expense of
workmanship is castaway. Mr. Gilbb described
the ridictilouB and wasteful effects to belookedfor
from such away of coining money.
The amendment of Mr. Williams was agreed
to bv a very large majority.
Mr. NiCHOLAe moved to strike out some of the
subsequent clauses, for payments to mechanics,
fur stationery, 4c.
Mr. Isaac ^MrTU wanted to know if it was
meant to ^lop the whole operations of the Mint.
Mr. Page objected to dispersing the workmen,
who could not easily he collected again ; at least
it would require en immense expense tore-assem-
ble them. It has been stated, in the course of this
discussion, that every cent coined in the Mint has
cost the public TBM ; but if the workmen are to be
dispersed, and if at any future time assembled
again, the cents may come to cost an /umdred
cent* a piece. Mr. P. recited various reasons
for hoping that the bnsiness of the Mint will in
future be conducted with more expedition, econo-
my, and success. He stated Ihe immense benefit
arising to the country from the plenty of copprer
money, and especially to the poorer classes of peo-
ple. A Mint was of more couaeqneoee than gen-
tlemen seemed to think it was. He said thai pri-
vate Mints were reported to be setting up. He
wished to refer the ameodmeat of his collewue
from Virginia to the third reading of the bill. By
Ihat lime, the House would be better informed.
Mr. Nicholas did not wish to abolish but
merely to subpend th« operations of the Mint till
nearer the end of the session. This ameDdineot
was negatived.
The deficiencies of the Mint, fw the last year,
form an article of eighteen tbouauid three liua*
dred dollars. Mr. Williamh said that it was as
amazing sum. He wished to know the meaning
of it.
Mr. W. Shitb, Chairman of the Committee of
Ways and Means, replied that this article had not
panned without due examiuatioo. The commit-
tee, consisting of fifteen members, were too avr
merous to enter into a detail at every article.
They appointed a sub-committee to inquire about
thent, and in particular about the Mint. . The ori-
ginal allowance of copper to be purchased waa
twenty thousand dgllan. They had reduced it to
ten thousand.
Mr. Williams moved to strike out these ei^-
teen thousand three hundred dollars.
Mr. Dayton complained that the Chairman of
the Committee of Ways and Means seemed re-
luctant to give information.
Mr. W. Smith stated that the gentleman bad
entirely mistaken him. His censare had been
rather premature. He felt no reluctance to give
every light posMfaU. He then explained the steps
.dbyGoogle
257
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
iS6
Jandait, 1796.]
taken by the CommiUee to convince themselTea
that there was nollUDg; wrong in the Mint state-
ment.
Mr. Datton apologized for his fonner obterra-
lions on the Chainniui of the Commidee.
House cannot do it. The accounia are either set-
tling, or alreatly settled at the Treasury. Debts
are actually contracted that must be paid. No
eentleman pojnts out an overchi^'ge on any of
tlte articles. It is not coiopetent for the House
eo lb rooffb each one separately. Itneverwastl
5«i,
I of the law.
eof
the plainest cases im4giDable. Debts hare been
contracted, and must be paid. If the gentleman,
[Mr. WiLLiAMaJ who seems lo have so many
suspicions, will be at the trouble of going to the
Treasnry office, be may look at the accounts, and
if they are wrong, let him impeach the officers of
the Treasury.
The amendment was negatiTed.
The Committee rose, the Chairman reported,
and the House took op the bill as reported.
The amendment for striking out the ten thou-
sand dollars lo purehase copper, was objected to
bjr Mr. Bodbhe, who hoped thai the Howse would
disagree to it.
Mi.Madibon stated the fact already mentioned
by Mr. Williihb, that it would be profitable to
melt down the cents, and carr^ the bullion back
lo the Mint for sale I He had il from the Cbair-
nuin, and one of the members of the Mint Corn-
Mr. LiviHOBTOR was for keepinff in the amend-
ment. Many people had strong donbts as to the
utititjr of the Mint. He wished the whole appro-
priation for it to be struck ouL The Mint He re-
garded as altogether an expensive and extrava-
gant project, in the way wherein it had hitherto
been conducted.
The House adhered to the amendment of the
Committee of the Whole.
Mr.LiviNaBTON next moved that the ifholeap'
propriation for (he Mint should be struck out.
Mr. Jeremiah Smith regarded this motioi
too precipiiaXe. He would recommend wiiiiog
for the report of ihe Select Committee on t' ~
Uint. He might then think that. the Mint was
extrsragant^ wasteful, and useless iestitution ;
he might think that it could be modified io a way
to do much good. He was against the motion *i
being too early. The genlleman has perhaps ri-
pened his opiouia, while others may not have ma-
tured theirs.
Mr. LiviHOHTon replied that he w«nted time to
deliberate, before voting any thing about the mat-
ter. He nod asked, and the queetion had not yet
been answered, whether any bad effect would
arise from delaying to pass this appropriation at
the present moment. His obieel in the motion
w>s not pKcipitalion, bat deliberation.
Mx. Hahtlbt thought ii woald not be fair,
when we feel ourselves very comfortable here, to,
be striking off the aalariea of other people, M du.
hard season ot the year. He was against the mo-
ion, and hoped that (he amendment of the Com-
mittee, as to the purchase of copper, would also
ipunged.
iBember observed that there need be no appre-
hension of people starving. The parties were
provided for by law, up to the thirty-first of De-
cember ; and il had been the custom to advance
.laries beforehand. The motion of the membw
second it. He hoped the resoIu(ion would pre-
vail. He had occasion lo go to this Hint, on bnsi-
for a country bank which he named, and had
seen the way in wliieh the business was eon-
ducted. The instilDtioD is a bad one, and' badly
conducted. Il has been most scandalously carried
. and with very little advanrage to the poUic.
If the institutioD is not lo be better carried on
than it has been, it ought lo be thrown aside.
The principal artist in the Mint is dead, and il
will not be easy, at present, to get another in his
Mr. Mdrrat said, that had the gentieman from
New York moved for delay, for the purpose of
introducing a motion to repeal the law which
rendered this appropriation necessary, he would
not have uoubled the House with a single re-
mark ; but his motion to strike out an appronriR'
tion for the purpose of briaging the policy ot the
law itself into discuBion, contained > principle in
his mind so repugnant to the great jUegisiaiive
duties of the House thai he would oppose il. The
object «f the appro^ialioo is not a temporary one,
but a part of the niachinery of our Government,
under the express authority of the Consdtution
by law. The doctrine now contended for by the
Ecntlemen from New York and PeuBsylvania
Mr. LivinOBTOK and Mr. GALLATrn] was that
this House have a discretionary power of ap[ax>-
priatiog or not. To tbis doctrine, taken in the
extent which he conceived they contentlcd for,
he could not give his support. On tbe contrary,
he thought that io all cases where an approfnia-
tion flowed from a law to make good a contract,
or to erect a permanent organ in the Govern-
ment, and from any law whose object was per-
maneni. tbe true doctrine was, that it was the
duy of tbe House lo vote an anproprialion. A
law is the will of a nation. The same powers
only that formed it can repeal it. If it be a Gon-
stitotional act, no power can lawfiiUy obstruct its
operation or its existence. But attending to the
doctrine maintained (o-day it would follow, that
[hough this House had not the power of re^a^
ing a law made by all the bronefaes of Qovem-
ment, it may obstruct its operations and render it
a dead letter ; though it caunot repeal, it may do
what shall amount to a repeal, which is the as-
sumption of a power almost equal to that of ex-
clusive legislilion. He thtragbt he saw in this
an evil of gre«I extest, and an anajrehy of theo*
relic principles. It appeared to him that thoogk
we originate money biAs, we had bo right to w
fssc BE appropriation to existiag laws diat eithot
secured a debt ot any aoMtact, or that ralatad
;dbvGoogle
HISTOHT OP CONGRESS.
AppropriatiMU.
[Januahy, 1796.
to objects perrouieDI b^ t^ie law that created or
acknowledged them, as lone as the law itself tc-
maioed uorepealed. Wa had but a share of Le-
gislacire power. Where a law telatire to such
objects as he bad alluded to esiaCed, from which
an appropriation followed, till the law ceased by
repeal or by other Conslituti'jnal means, it was
obligalory upon us as well as upon our coostilu-
enis, and the only powers we could exercise of a
discretionary sort resolved themselYes either into
this mode of making good the appropriation, or
of voting for its repeaL Theolher cirancheswonld
then Saage of the propriety of our proceeding;
but till they who assisted in its enacting, judged
with us the necessity of doing it away, a duty re-
aulted that we should give it the energy intended
Mr. Dattoh conceiTed the question brought
under discussioa of loo delicate a nature tobeae-
cided at the present time. He however expressed
it as his opinion that the power of making sppro-
piiations was intended and ought to be a cnecK on
establish men cb.
Mr. Nicholas conceived the House bound to
weigh the merits of every law when an appro-
priation was to be passed to carr^ it into effect,
and na appropriations should obtam the sanction
of the House, unless they were convinced of the
propriety of the law.
Mr. Gii.Ee said he did not expect to hear a doc-
trine so novel broached in the House as that ad-
vanced by the member from Massachusetts [Mr.
SsDowicK.] He had declared that he conceived
the House could exercise no discretionary power
when about to pass an appropriation bill.
Mr. Bedqwick rose lo explain. The principle
he advocated was, that when a law was made
pledging the public faith, the House had no dis-
cretion to withhold, or not, an appropriation; at
least as long as coQimon honesty was more than
Mr. Giles said that if this doctrine was admit-
ted in its full latitude, the House would become a
mere office for the registering of edicts. He con-
tended that the House had a right, by withhold-
ing appronriations, to put an end to an institution
Without toe concurrence of the Senate. He would
not say that the present was a case that called
for the exercise ot that right, but they had in all
caws of this nature a right to exercise their dis-
cretion.
Mr. MtmaaT ccMiaidered the laws of the land
aa dependii^g upon two other biuiches of the Go-
vernment twflides this House, and conceived it
highly improper in the House to attempt to ob-
struct them by withholding necessary appropria-
tions. What would be the effect of a contrary
doctrinel It must contain the seeds of govern-
mental anarchy. While a law remained in force
it was the duty of the House to do what was
needful to carry it into operation. He made some
allusion lo the Briinb House of Commons, who,
by privilege, contend for the right of withholding
supplies to be a check on the patronage of (he
Crown. But such a principle, he contended, conid
not a|^y bere ; our Oovernmeni could not pro-
ceed if it were admitted. As long as a law exists
it is the duty of the House (o make the needful
appropriations. The whole wisdom of the Go-
vernmenl is not in this House. The same power
is required to repeal laws as to mnke theni. It is
(rue the Constitution has given to the House the
more immediate command of the purse-strings ;
but they were under an obligation to open them
when necessity required. There is a Constitutional
way of repealing laws ; but the House has no
right to Dtetruct their operation while in force.
A member from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Gallatid,]
he observed, appeared on a former occasion to co-
incide with his opinions on this subject ; for be
argued that the House was bound to pass such
an appropriation, as a law existed giving the sa-
lary to the officer which it was meant to provide
for.
Mr. Gallatin said, in answer, that hisobserva-
tion had simply been, that the Committee of
Ways aod Means, and not the House, conceived
itself bound to report an appropriation for an
item established by law; but be never doubted
the power of the House to pass, or not, an appro-
priation. In such cases the line of duty must re-
main to be drawn by opinion. With what de-
gree of consistency can the House be called on
For a vote if, as some members contend, they
cannot have an opinion 7 Why are they called
upon to say, yea or nay, if they are obliged to saf
yea?
Mr. McititAV conceded that a member might
>ay yea or nay, but his duty most in cases of tlis
nature clearly point to oue of the two; for be
could not mislaxe the black and white marks in
the court of conscience. He has the physical
power to say yea or nay ; but if he does bis duiv he
must say yea. The contrary principle woulu go
to (his, that th^ House had a right to refuse an
appropriation lo pay a just debt-
Mr. Gallatin observed, in replv, that each
member will be the sole judge whetlier it was or
was not his duty to say yea. or the contrary. The
Constitution, be said, declared (hat no moDe;
should be drawn from the Treasury but by ap-
propriations made by law : this did not look as if
the voting of appropriations was intended to be
merely a matter of form. In the second place,
the Constitution declares, that no appropriation
for the support of an armed force shall be made
for more than two years. Thus, though a Mili-
tary Bstablishroent may be formed by enlistments
for three or more years, yet the Constitution pro-
vides that ibe question !!hall be submitted to the
House every two years; and this surely is not as
a matter of form ; but in order, at such short pe-
riods, by voting on an appropriation biU, to deter-
mine whether such an establishment should exist
longer or not. He conceived the power which
be advocated as residing in the Hoase of great
consequence, and to be used in important occa-
Mr. NrcHoLAS, who had risen at the same time
with Mr. Gallatin, and had given way to him,
observed, that when he first row, he was going to
I read the clause of the Constitution which the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
JlHDART, 1796.]
member last ap had referred to. As lo the black
ud white toarks the member from Maiylaod
■poke of, they were differeatly placed in different
Grsons; in matters of opioioa mea will differ ;
t the ConstituiioD is a guide not to be deported
(ram. The power of appcopriatioD was rested by
ihai inatrameiil ehieSv in the House, aod no
power OD earth would prevent his exercising his
oiKretion when that power was lo be put in ac-
Mr. Gii^a obaerTed, that the member from Ma-
ryland had Kpt into the doctrine of checks, and
teemed to think that if the Houae eiercis«l ita
Coaatitutiasal check it would produce govern-
mental anarchy.
Mr. MCRBAY exiJained. He bad alluded to the
mode of gettiiig rid of an establishment by refnsiu^
appropriations to carry it into effect. The Consti-
tational mode of procnring the repeal of the law
diould always be nad recourse to ; bat he insisted
ibat the House coold not, as they were bound by
their duty, obatmct a law in force by refusing an
ipproprialion.
Mr. Giles conceived that the checks provided
by the Constitution might be used by eacn of the
powers of Government lo their full extent, limit'
ed in every particular case only by their own dis-
cretion. If the harmony of the branches was to
be made an argument to prevent the exercise of
checks, what, he asked, became of the checks pro-
vided by the Constitution 1 Each branch of the
Qovernment (if be understood what was meant
by Constitutional checks) was lo exercise iu own
opinions and use its discretions within Conslitu-
uonal limits, without a reference to the opinions
of other branches. He nest adverted to the pow-
ers of nppropriatioD, which he contended were in
a greater degree vested in the immediate Aepre-
HQtatives of the people, to be a wholesome check.
In case of an Army Establishment, for example,
suppose the PasBiDENT or Senate were to refuse
their aiseat to the repeal of a law establishing
at Will it be said that the clause of the Consti-
tution empowering the House to make a biennial
appropriation for tne object, docs not vest in them
a discretiouary power in such instances of over-
tnrning the estanlishment by its own willl for it
caoDol be kept np without an appropriation. Is
the Honse to (w told that, for the sake of harmo-
ny, they must give up ibeir own powers and
opinions T He maintamed that, in cases of at>-
rpriarion!!, they had a discretionary power, to
Fiercised, as in all cases, discretion an ly. Was
one branch to be judges of discretion for another?
No; each should jut^e for itself.
Mr. MtiBBAV nid, it was known to every one
that an appropriation for the support of a Milita-
ry Esublishment could not be inadc for a longer
term iban two years; but that case was widely
diSeiFDt from toe present. It was known that,
by the CoDstiturion. a military appropriation can-
not exist more than two years : but the doctrine
he supported was in cases of debt or obligation
nndei a law ; and, in such cases, he still contend-
ed that though the HouM had the physical power
refuse an appropriation to satisfy a claim thus
founded, they tuul not the right.
Here the debate was interrupted by a motion
for adjaammeDt ; which was carried, and the
House adjonrned.
WEn«BaDAY, January 20.
PROMOTION Of USEFUL ARTa
APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1796.
The House resumed the subject of yesterday-
Ir. LcviNQBTON had restricted nis resolution for
triking out the appropriations for the Mint, some-
ime before the House rose. The pensions to the
fficers were an exception.
Mr. Williams observed, that he had made an
estimate of the expenses of the Mint, and the
sums coined, which he beeeed leave to state to
the House, in order to aid them in their determi-
EzraaniniKM.
In the year 1T9S
Do. 17B3
Do. 1794
CnaniT
Uto coined:
thavearl795
caUedtbr
porcbuaofl
Cents and half M
In 1763 ■
I7M -
1
$1,281 7>
9,S93 SI
Deficienciea now
M,SOO 00
18.300 00
IMnet from the
u>d.,bi>iLl-
«7,000 00
ia,M8 38
n,74« as
91,419 61
38,887 09
t61,ft33 53
From this statement the sum of $61,532 52
hath been lost by the Establishment, excepting a
small sum which hath arisen from tne coining of
the precious meuls. The total amount of the is-
sues of riie Mint,f] '" " * ^"~^ '
f:.«h.
- 3,785
Hdfaaglei •
- 8.707
Half dollua -
833,144
Haifdimei -
- 86,416
Cenii
Half nuita ■
143.684
Total in doUaia
468.641 30
em spekk i* Oaa HiOse, becanae I pay the gre«t-
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGBESa
H. or R.] Appnpr
nt respect la the opinioDi of gentlemen ; but I
will veolure a few obseTTatioos. Pint, is it ne-
cesnry (hat the United States shontd hare a
Hint 7 I think it requiBiCe, because all GoTem-
menta have considered tbia as a necesMry mea-
sure. I hope that the Mint may atill operate to
the advantage of the Union; for occurreDces in
common life teach us in the clearest manner, the
wide difference between theory and practice. This
is the case in rhe btiiiness of the Mint, as, indeed,
the public expeetatioai have been raised very bigb
OD tnis occasioD. Specie was to rise almost spon-
taneously ; but, I repeat il, all theory and practice
differ widely, and, of course, this matter has not
been so productive as was expected. But now to
arrest the matter, while in actual mocioa, and by
&kind of electrical shock, slop the whole pulsa-
tion, and totally defeat (he measure, when in real-
ity we hare the agreeable port in view, appears
to me unwise and imprudent. This measure would
imroedialely impress the public mind with an opin-
ion that Congress bad abolished the Mini. This
might turn the course of materials necessary for
coining gold and silver toother markets, and if the
BeBMire wai hereafter considered wise and neces-
Mry,the whole business must begin over again, and
MmaaqiMntly make its outsets under many and
oonapicuous ditad van cages. 1 am hence for giving
it another year of triah.
Mr. Giles was for the motion. It did not go
to the total destruction of the Mint. The design
of Jhe resolution was mistaken. It was better to
wait for the report of Che select committee. We
Shall then appropriate with more underatandiag
than we do now. We shall see reasons for our
conduct, •
Mr. Madison wi«hed that the articles could >be
sepuated from the Civil List, when (hey are of a
nature to admit of dispute. The miltiary ez-
pentea had been separated from it. because an
«meraency might render it uecassary to vote in-
■tmaUy for (he Civil List; bad the military ez-
eiues, by being ctmnected with the other, might
voted without due deliberation. He wished
that the articles could he divided, and the vote
tak«a on them aeparately. He was not against
voting for pensioDS to the officers of the Mint.
He saw no narm in doing so in the mean time.
Mr. W. Smith Insisted that the mimey which
had been advwieed should be paid, such as
$18,300 of deBciencies.
Mr. Qti.Ea Mw more reason for objecting to
this than to any other part of (he articles. It did
not seem that tne money had been paid.
Mr. Gib>s was stopped by the Spbakeb. The
question was on the amendment to the amend-
ment of yesterday. The gentleman might, after
that was decided, speak to any poriieular clause.
Mr. QrLn explained, that he had merely in-
tended a reply to the remark of (be gentteman
from South Carolina.
Ur. BiDQWioB gave credit to Mr, Gilbb, when
be said it was the design of no mcMibar to destroy
the Mini. It would be a total prostration of na-
ttoBkl «ham«ter to do such a thia^. It wm in the
pev«l of the HoMt U modify w aepeal tke ap-
otioM. [JiNDABT, 1796.
propriatioD, if they did not like it. If the mate-
rials and workmen were struck out of the appro-
priation, the Director and Officers would not tbit^
ibemselvet authorized to proceed. Mr. Seoo-
W[CE, if one of them, would be of this opinion.
Mr. QiLEe rose only that he might not be mis-
understood by the gentleman from Massachusetts.
He bad not said, nor meant to say, that be would
never vote against the existence of a Mint, for it
was very possible that he might give such a vote.
He only said that the present amendment did noi
go that ftr. He waited to ground his opinion on
the report of the select aommittee. He had u
Eel not formed a refolntion. Before he sat down
e could not help noticing a curious argumeiil
employed by ihe gentleman last up in favor ofthc
appropriation beine voted, thai if it was found im-
proper the House had it in their power to modifv
or repeal it. Mr. G. thought il would be mucn
better not to make a law till they had lime to
learn whether it was a right one, than to past ic,
under the notion of repealing it, if it proved unid-
visable.
Mr. Jbbehiab Smith imagined that the House
bad annexed much more importance (o the ques-
tion than it deserved. It was very little matter
which way the votes went. He would vole for
retaining the appropriations in the bill, and he
cared very little whether other gentlemen did so
01 nol. If any thing proved wrong in the appro-
priation it could, easily be rectified.
Mr. Face was against the aDQcndmenl. It
would be the height of extravagance to vote ihe
deny materials for the workmen and their wages.
This would be creating sinecures. He would
rather vote double Ihe sum of an appropriation
than to strike out the articles. Every indepen-
dent natioD had a Mint. The present state ol
American coin was a kind of piracy on the Mints
of other nations.
A Member remarked that he had seen members
vote for postponing the bill for Indian houses, be-
cause there was not a fund secured for payiDg the
expenses. Thai was (1^,000. He thought that
he saw a gentleman who voted againsl that bill
voting for the present appropriation, and aayiog
that the sum was trifling. Yet It was $62,641, or
verv neat the half of the former. He agreed
with the gentleman from New Hampshire, [Mr.
Jerehiah Smith,] Chat Che difference, whether
the amendment passed or not, was but a trifle,
and, therefore, hoped that the gentleman would
oblige him by voting for it.
Mt. Sbogwick rose to explain. He had not
voted against the Indian bill, but for poslponing*-
Tbere was not a gentlemen, he believed, on that
floor, who wa« an enemy to the bill.
Mr. Ct.AiBORNB was for the amendment, but
did not, by this, mean destruction to the Mint.
The amendment was for striking out all tit
items ei<;«pt the deficiencies of last year.- On a
I division — yeas 40, nays 46; the amendment vrai
thus negatived.
The Home then took up the clause for deSeien-
: 0ie>. The mMioB for striking tret w«a negatived
.dbyGoogle
HIBTOBT OF 00NGMS8.
jANUAn, 179&]
ContetUd EUetio»—Pertnimtnt Seat of GooemnuirU.
Tbe amntdniBDt for itrikinrfliit the $10,000 fbi
the pirehMsa of copwr, reported yetter^ky {root
the Gontmiitw of the Whole Home, wtu
taken up.
Mr. Paqe argued strongly for supporting the
Mint. Formerly, iheie was a v«Ty iagenious but
complicated machin^ which, in coiuing, struck the
dies with so much (orce as to breali theoi. He
believed that another was [o b« employed that
would do much better.
Mr. HiLLBoDsE hid formerly been against the
Mint, as a premature escabrisbmeac ; but he
ihougbt it would be disgraceful to retract now.
He read a passage from the report made by tbe
last Director, when quiitiog his office, and, oi con-
sequence, whoi be had no temptatioa to exagger-
ate: and Ibis genilemau slated that the progress
in future would be very great.
Mr. Williams, in rejuy, observed that the re-
port contained many psrticidaiB very discouraging
to the future proapecL If the institution is to be
persisted in, he thought it should be removed to
the peimanenl Seat of Government. He al-
luded to the
pense which has been it
great expense
red for buildmgs. Mr. W. further observed, that,
«s the burden of the Mint extended equally over
all the Union, every part of it ought to reap the
benefit. This was very far from being tbe
case. Its advantages extended to a very small
part of tbe UnLon.
For stnkioE out tbe $10,000, yeas 38, nays 44.
The amendmeats froia the Committee being
thus gone through, the bill was ordered to be en-
grossed for a third reading.
8TAT£ OP THB PORTIPICATIONB.
A Letter from the Secretary of War, respectioe
the state af the Fortifications, was neit receivefl,
and the Glei4t began to read it ; but there being
some difficulty in obtaining the requisite attention
ftom the House, the Speakek thought that it had
better be referred to the nelect committee aa that
mbjeet ; which was done aecoMingly.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Tbe Hous« proeaeded to cotuidcr the report of
the Csmraittee of Elections, to whom waa refer-
red tbe petition of Burwell Bataeti, of the State
of Virginia, complaining of «a undue election and
reinm of John Cloptom, to serve as a member
of this House for the said Slate ; and the said re-
port bein^ twice read at the Clerk's table, was, on
the qaettiOQ being put thereupon, agreed to by
the House, as followR :
"It awwan that an clectioa vru held on th« 16th
lUy of March, ITS5, in Ihe iliatrict campowd of the
Mantiea of Henrico, Hanover, New K«nt, Charlef
City, and lames City, in the Slata of Virginia, to elect
■ member to tliii House.
"That, upon an sMiraste of ^ the polls taken at
the wvrbI dectioni, John Clopton had 4n votes, and
BoTweU BaneU 49%.
" That, out of a« nnmbtr of panons who votwl for
J(rfiB Clopton, >T wora unqudiAad t0 vote, and of thiae
*Im voted for Borwell Baaaatt, 88 wne ako anqoali-
4lh Com.— 10
John C1optcai,tfholiB«lbeh^kertn«nJ>«r of votes, af-
. tet dedncUng the before menlionsd defective vdIm frwn
the respective polls, is entitled to a seal in this House."
The House then adjouned.
TBHRBDiT, January 21.
The Clerk informed the House that the Sfbak-
ER was ill, and unable to attend : when the Hoase,
after some conversation, adjmimed.
PaiDAY, January 23.
The Speaker being still indisposed, the several
orders of the day were postponed, and the House
adjourned (ill Monday next.
Monday, January 25.
The bill, entitled " An act to amend the act to
fromote tne prc^ess of Useful Arts," passed
y the Senate, wt» read a second time, and com-
tiiitted forto-morrow.
The bill making appropriations for the support
of Government for the year 1706, was reaa the
third time, passed, and sent to the Senate for con-
currence.
A bill to regulate trade and intercourse with
tbe Indian tribes, and to preserve peace on lixe
frontiers, was read and referred to a Committee
of the Whole on Thursday.
PERMANENT BEAT OF GOVERNMENT.
A report was made by the Committee on the '
Federal City, which recommends twoiMolutioni^
in substance u follow; :
" JUtohtd, Tbtt Iha PreMdsst ef lb* Untied Staiea
ba authorized to borrow aneh mom aa, in his jnSgiMnt,
he shall «w proper, not etoeediog in the iA^ •iD<l,IMO,
nor more than 1200,000 in me year, U coi^deU
the Fnblie Buildings in the Ciiv of Waahtngton. "nw
loan to be ■eenrnd on the pnbUc pn^witj <^ said d^ i
the rate (rf interest to be by him agreed, and the term
of payment, which ia not, however, to be before the
year 1860. The United States lo guarantee the loan,
should Ow proper^ of the eily prove iuadeguale, and
that they engage to make good any eventual daflciencj.
" Raoived, That it sbsll be Ihe dnty of the Con-
mianonere appointed under the act eetablishing IIm
temporary and penuanent Beat of Government to ren-
der, every sii months, lo the Becretaiv of the Treaao-
tj an account of the moneys expended, of Oie progreaa
made, and of the fiinda remaining in their hands, and
an account of their adminialration — dl to be laid be-
fore Congress."
Referred to a Committee of the Whole for
Monday next.
OROANIZINO THB MILITIA.
Mr. OiLBH, from the Committee fitr Oi^iniztnC;
Arming.andDiMiriinJDgthe Militia of the United
Slates, reported a bill : which was read a tirsi and
second time, and made the order of the itay foi
Monday next.
It was afterwards moved that it should be prim-
ed i and this motion whs withdrawn. This waa
afterwards retracted, it having been stated by a
lember that only Gliy copies of the old bill were
preserved.
)v Go Ogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
,R.]
Cmamerce and Nia/mgation.
[Janoabt, 1796.
COMPBNSATrON Of HBMBBRa.
Mr. GoooBUE s&id, that tlie Committee of Com-
pensalion to Members and other Officers of Got-
eroment were, from sickness, only four — they
were equally divided. Mr. Goit was added.
EXPORTS OF THE UNITED STATES.
A Letter was read from the Secretary of the
Treasury, enclosiog a statement from the Com-
mhaioners of the RereDue of the exporis of the
United States, from October 1, 1790, to Septem-
ber 30, 1795.
Another communication was read from the Se-
cretary of the Treasury. It enclosed the state-
ment called for by two resolotions of the House
of the 18th instant, so far as the Treasury docu-
ments furnish materials for the purposes therein
mentioned.
These communications were referred to the
committee appointed by the resolution introduced
by Mr. Sahogl Smith.
TtrceDAT, January 26.
Mr. Tract submitted two resolutions. The
first for giving the privilege of franking to the Ac-
countant of the War Department ; the second tc
augment hisulary. The resoUiions lie on the
taMe. [These resolutions were taken up on the
subsequent day and referred.]
Mr. Harper moved that a committee be ap-
pomted to inquire what proceedings havcbepn had
-on Ike act for the more seDeral promulgation of
the Laws of the United States. He a)»o laid on
the table a resolution that the number <rf copies to
be printed should be augmented.
Mr. W. Smith, fVom the Land Office Commit-
tee, reported a bill for establishing land offices for
the sale of lands in the Northwestern Territory.
The bill was read a first and second time, and re-
ferred to a Committee of the Whole House on
Tuesday nezt.
EXECUTIVE SALARlSa
New Jersey, were laid on the table by Mr. Kitch-
ELL. They were all copies of the same tenor.
They complained of the high salaries of the Eie-
cutive and members of the Legislature. A mi-
litia-man, returning from serrice to hie family,
has only ten cents per day; a member of Con-
gress baf thirty cents per mile. This they regard
as an aiistocratical distinction.
Mr. KcTCBELL said, that he had kept these
papers for some time by him, as it was expected
that manv others of the same kind would be sent
to join them. The comi^aint, he thought, had
more foundation formerly ihau at present,
the great rise in the rate of living.
The petitions were referred to the comn
who are to bring in a bill for ascertaining the
peosatkon of members.
COMMERCE AND NAVIGATION.
<■ Retehed, That the CommittM of Ccmmarca and
ManniactarM do ccnaida' whether any, and what, ■!-
teratioiu are aeotmnj in the laws of Uib Union with
ipect to commenw mnd nsrigitioa."
Mr. Smith then addressed the Sprakbr as fol-
Iowe: When iheproper time shall arrive, ii wiR
be prudent, Isl, To make it the interest of all na-
tions to meliorate their deportment towards the
United States; Sd, To induce well-disposed nations
act favorably towards us, in their commercial
EFulations; and 3d, To correct positive evils by
direct means, where prudence restrains us from
direct measures. The present time, when the na-
tions of Europe, with whom we have the greatest
relation, are on the eve of a peace, appears to me
proper to consider these subjects, and T cave there-
fore thought it my duly to lay before the House
the resolution just read, that gentlemen may direct
their attention to the propriety of repealing that
part of the laws whici lays an extra duty of 44
cents on foreign tonnage, and of one-tenth addi-
tional duty on ^ods imported in foreign Rhips.
Snch duties are m fact commercial war ; and will
be submitted to by nations in competition no longer
than your commerce was insi^ificant. France
resented it in 1791 at which time she employed
but 8.941 tons of shipping to the United States,
and sne passed a law laying seven livres per cwt.
extra duty, on tobacco imported in American
ships. This was equal to 469. 6d. sterling per hogs-
head, when the wnole freight was but ^. 6(2. per
cwi. Thus she secured the carriage of 40,000 bi^s-
heads of tobacco to her own ships. The stroke was
immediately felt. Our ships were thrown out of
the trade, Etnd in 1792, there entenid in our ports,
24.017 tons of French shipping, an increase of
15.076 tons in one year. Circumstaoces have com-
pelled France to suspend that law, but will she not
renew it, if we continue ours 1 Can we complain
if she should? And is there not good, ground to
fear that she will extend her extra duties to rice,
fish, lumber, and other objects of exportation, and
thus secure to her ships the carrying of all the
products of the United States, that she may have
occasion for? It wilt bercmarked that the French
{roods imported to the United States are fine, and
would employ but few ships. But those from
America to France are very bulky, ind would em-
ploy a great number. Mr. JfirFERBOK says, tbat
m 1792, we employed 116,410 tons of shipping to
France^ almost the whole of which advantage will
be lost m case sb« ahonld countervail our protec-
In 1791, the merchants of Liverpool complain-
ed that our protecting duties bad enabled us to mo-
nopolize the whole carrying trade between Great
Britain and the United Slates, and prayed the
King to take measures of retaliation. The subject
was submitted to some merchants of London aad
Bristol, who acquiesced in the fact, but gave iheit
advice against violent measures, expressiuK their
hope that the evil might be removed by a Treaty
of Commerce. In thelale Treaty with Oreai. Bri-
tain, she has reserved to herself the right of coun-
tervail, and bound uafrom laytng'aay sew duties
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
JAMi;*aT,1796.j
Reubem CMftum.
[H-ofR.
,1 ber diacKtioQ, and may
ir maj' not be Juil, If unjust, it will be an endlrsa
scene of negoiiatioD and misundentasdinif. But
sappose that Great Britain, in our own wo^d^ laya
*□ extra dat]r of onO'Ieath on goods imported tn
foreign resseU, what will be the consequence 1
Whjr effectually to Mcure to herself tbe exclusive
tarrying of all our pioducts to her markets. For
iojtaDce, the duty on tobacco, in Great Britain, in
■bom fifteen pence sterling per lb. One-tenth ad-
ditional lo be paid by our ahipa is three halfpence.
The hc^shead. on an average contains 9o% lbs.
which will make the extra duly amount lo £5 18*.
id. per hbd., when the aTerase of freight intimeit
of peace is but thirty-five f<hilliiiff« per hogshead.
Rice pays a duty of seventeen shillings and four
pence per ewL in Britain. Suppose the tierce of
lice to weigh 672 lbs., the duty wilt then be
£3 T». 8d. One-Ieiith added will be i«. 9J. iterling
per tierce, if the rice is imported in an Amerieein
T«nel; wbeu Ih« freight of the tierce of rice in
timea of peace i$ only from 10 to- 13 sbiUiiigs ster-
ling per tierce. On every other article of our com-
nwrce, Britain having tbe ri^t, will make the
coonlerTail such as to secure the carrying thereof
to their own shipping. Haring once tasted its
■weeis, they will not easily relinquish the advan-
tages. Portugal also complains. All nations that
can, will resent those protecting duties, aad having
it in their power, will countervail. I therefore
submit to thp serious conriderntlon of the House,
whether pruiIoDcedoea not diclaie a repeal of those
The motioa wai ordered to tie on the table.
The House then adjourned.
WEDNEiDAY, January 27.
Mr. Habper moved that all reports which had
been made by Heads of Departmeiits to either
House of Congress, and printed, up to the com-
mencement of this session, be reprinted for the use
of the members, and that a committee be appoint'
ed to bring in a bill for that purpose. Ordered tc
be laid on the table.
Mr. Vbnable, from the Commillee of Elections,
to whom was referred tbe -petition of Matbew
LvoH, of the Slate of Vermont, complaining of an
undue election and return of Isbabl Smfth, to
serve as a member of this House for the said State,
made a report ; which was read: Whereupon,
Orderecl^ That Wednesday next be assigned to
take the said report into consideration.
On a motion made and seconded that the House
do come to the following resolution:
" Reaohiei, That tha salary of the AccDuntant of the
Deputment of Wu, be augmeated '
Blhci
n tbei
net, uid under tha name regulations, as he receives his
present nlaiy. to commence on tbe day of — ~,"
Ordered, That tbe said motion he referred to
Mr. GooDBttB, Mr. N1CH0L.AB, Mr. Eiblb, Mr.
Williams, and Mr. TnoMaa; that they do ex-
amine tbe matter thereof^ and report the same
with their opibioo tbercnpim, to the Hooae.
On a motion made and seconded that the House
] come to the following resolution :
" Jiuohe^Thatthe privilege of frankiiig letters ba ex-
tended to the Acconntsat of the Department of War ;
and thst all lettsn lo and from tbe said Accountsnl, be
tratuported free of pbatage."
OTdered^ Thai the said motion be referred to
e committee appointed to inquire if any, or
what, alterations are necessary to be made in the
iVct to establish the Post Office and Post Roads
. ithin the United States ;" thai they do examine
the maiter thereof, and report the same, with their
opinion thereupon, to the Mouse.
Mr. Qreoo presented a petition from sundry in-
habitants of Dauphin, Nonhumberland, and other
ounties in Pennsylvania, soliciting the making of
_ cross post road (or two hundred and forty-three
miles. Referred to the Post Road and Post Of-
fice Committee.
A petition from several merchants in Newbern,
Nortii Carolina, praying remission otthe duty
I sundry goodsdestroyed by water, was read and
referred to the Committee of Commerce and
Manufactures.
A report was then read on the petition of Lucas
Fitch. He had settled with Mr. Steele, an army
agent,' for his claim^ and col a note for £70 or £80,
and gave a receipt in taa. He intrusted his note
to an agent, who lost it, and now tbe petitioner
comes forward and a^ the United States to pay
the note. This, with the petitions of Timothy
How and l^Iargarei Lint, were negatived by the
House.
REUBEN COIBURN.
The House then went into a Committee oit the
report of the Committee of Claims, on the peti-
tion of Reuben Colbntn. The report of the select
committee being unfavorable, was read.
Mr. DfARBOHK urged Ibat the petitioner had
done every thins in nis power to lodge his claiok
within the limelimited by law. He iiked a far-
ther pestponement for the sake of getting inform-
Mr. Harper objected, that jhe delay was owing
entirely to tbe negligence of Mr. Colbum himself.
He WHS completely ready to decide on the ques-
tion. For deferring ayes 41, noes 38.
The Committee rose. . The Chairman reported
progress, and leave was granted by the House for
the Committee to sit again.
The remainder of the day was spent in the con-
sideration of reports on private claims; and then
the House adjourned.
TBtTRSDAV, January 28.
Mr. OooDSDB presented a bill from the commit-
tee appointed for reporting on the compensation to
members of Congress, and certain of their officers.
The bill was made the order of the day for Wed-
nesday next.
Mr. W. Smith moved that the Committee of
the Whole House should be discharged from far-
ther considering the bill from the Senate to amend
anacltopromotetheprogressof the Useful Arts.
.dbyGoogle
371
HISTORY OP CONGHESS.
Prvoaedutga m Oiitlavrry.
[Januabt, 1TS6.
This waa Bfieed to, and il wsa t
* select committee.
Mr. W. Shctb, from the SteDomphical Com-
mittee, reported that the; had conferred with Mr.
David Robertson, of Petersburg^ in the State of
Viiginia. They had thought bim qualified ; his
demand for a cession was to be four thousand dol-
lars for preparing his rejjorts for the press eiclu
sive of the expense of OTinting; and that Andrew
Brown, pripter of the Philadefphia Gazette, had
offered lo pay eleven hundred dollars of this sum,
so ihattheie would remaiu two thousand nine buo-
dreddollar) tobepaid by Government. The report
was made the order of the day for to-morrow.
PROCEEDINGS W OUTLAWBT.
The House went into a Committee of the Whole
on the bill from the Senate to regulate proceed-
ing in case) of outlavrry.
To the [hrrd section eeveral amendments were
proposed. The section itself was in these words:
"Sic. 3. Jnd U it /urihtr eimtied. That if the wid
pcnon, so indicted, ■hall not be found tntbin thirty dns
■ftsr thi Hid wcond writ of capiat shall come to the
Manhal'i hands, or beiot found ihall escape, the wid
Mushal ihall, at least Ihirtv dtyi before the return iheni-
o( read or cause to be read, the said second writ end the
copy of the indictment thereto anneied, at the court
house of the countf within which the oflence U charged
bj the mid indictment, to have been committed, and also
of Ihe county in whici the party is by (he indictment
supposed to dwell, if luch coonty be within the district,
or if the offence be cominitted on the high seu, tben at
the court houae or one or the coait house* where the
■■id court from which the said writ issued is atatedlj
held, and in the presence and hearing of at leut twetvi
persons, which number, if need be, he is hereby au-
tberiied finthwAh to summon and convene from the
UMgUtoriiaod, «ad dwn and Cfaere shall mdte or cause
to be made a poUic prodaaatiDn in manner following,
IS wit: "A. B, [naming the peiaon indicted] is hereby
noticed that an indictment ii band against him, (or her,
M the caae may be,] and is eoramanded to appear at tiie
d*7 and place at which the writ now read is ntumable
■nd annrer the said indictment uid abide the judgment
of the court, on pain and penalty of being outlawed,
and every person so sooiinoued by the said Marshal to
attend and bear Iha said proclamation, shall be subject
lo the same penal^ for non-attendance, and entitled to
the same mileage for attendance, as persons summoned
to attend as jurors in the Circuit Court of the same dis-
trict, or in ^e District Court in the Districts of Maine
and Kentucky."
Mr. Giles saw no proprliity in giving the Mar-
shal .power to summon twelve persons, for the
purpose above mentioned, and to nne them for not
attending. He moved tUiit llie word."! '■ and in the
presence and hearing of at least twelve persons "
DC ttruck out; so as that the proclamation should
be made at the time of some court, for the pur-
pose of greater notoriety. Courts would bo suffi-
ciently frequent to obviate any difficulties arising
from uie want of a reasonable collection of people
to witness the traDSBCIion.
It was objaeted, that it might happen that no
court wa« in aession at the time when it would be
MceiBarT to anake the procknutioB.
Aikother motion waa made lo strika out thAe
words following the former, "which Duoiber, if
need be, he is hereby autborizied forthwith to sam-
frwm the neighborhood." This
^^A ^.^^^ im ......... oj A j:—:
This was carried — ayes 42, noes 33.
Mr. QrLES then moved, as a matter of course, to
strike out from the words, "and evary person so
summoned," &c., to the end of the clanse-
Mr. NioHOLAS proposed to add, in the 6A line
of the third clause, after the words, "the court
house," "and during the sitting of the court.'' The
amendment was agreed to.
In the third line of section fourth, Mr. Mii^
LBDOE moved to insert after the words, "thereto an-
nexed," ''to be posted in three or more places' of
public resort in the county in which tbe indict-
meot was had, and in the county in which the of-
fence was committed and." Thisalso waaagreed
The Committee rose. The Chairman reported
the amendments, and the House took ihem op.
After some conversation, the bill was recommitted
to a select committee of three members.
And the House adjourned.
Priday, January 29.
Mr Pabker presented a report from the com-
mittee appointed to inquire into the slate of tke
Naval Eouipment of the Union, which was read
a first and second time. They recommended that
one of the fort V'four gun. and one ot liie thirly-tiz
gun frigates should be fitted ouL As iho United
State are at peace with the Emperor of Morocco,
and most lifeely so with the Dey of Algiers, a
larger armameDt, at this time, is superBuous. They
recommend that the materials of a perishable
nature should be sold by the Phbhtdkht of the
UifrTED Stateb, and the money appropriated
forditcharging the Public Debt. Theother mate-
rials are to be laid up. This report was made the
order of the day for a Committee of the "Whole,
on Wednesday next.
A petition was presented and read, from Nicho-
las J. Roosevelt and J. Hart, merchants in New
York. They stated that they had been considera-
bly engaged in the business of mining, and wished
for encouragement and protection of the House.
On motion of Mr. Liyinhbtom, the petition was
referred to a select committee.
The following Message was received from the
PREaiDEN-r or the United States :
Gentlemen of the Senah. and
of tat Heuoe of Repreaentatieti :
In purBuance of the sulhority vested in the President of
the United States, by an act of Congress, passed the 3d
of March last, to reduce the weights of the copper coin of
the United States, whenever he should think it for the
beneBlof the United Stales, provided that the r«dnetiot)
shoold not ezceed two pennyweights in each ccmt, and
in ttie Hke proportion in a half cant, I have caond lfa«
to be ndnoid, onee tha tweo^-aavasith ^ last
' wi^ a»e peanywai^t and HztaMi gitimM
DQtzo. O.Google
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
StU
Jahdaby, 1796.]
Jean Marie de Bardie — Stenographer to the Bmise.
[H. or R.
maadi esnt, and in the tike propottioD in ahilf canU
uid I have KiToa notice theicf f 1^ procUaistion.
By tliB Letter of the Judgei of the Circuit Ceort of
lb* United Statsi held »t Boeloii in June lak, end the
endoeed eppUotian of the imdet-keeper of the Jul at
that place — of wttich copies are herewith tiatwautted —
Congren wiU pereeite the jieceaiitj of making a nit'
■Me proTioion &r the maintanance <rf' piieonera commit-
ted to the jaila or the several Statea, undei the authohb
of the Umted Staled.
G. WASHINGTON.
Ubitid Stitu, January 39, 17B6.
The Message and papers were read, and ordered
to lie on the table.
Another Message was received from the Pbbbi-
I«HT OP THE UwiTBD States:
Gmtleneu of the Stnate, and
of lie Heute of RtjireMntativet .-
I nnd henwiih, for the infbnnation of Congress —
I. An Act of the Legidatore of the State of Rhode
Uead, iMi^ing an BmenfaDent to the Constitution of
the Unilfld Slates, to prevent inila in eertai
gainst ■ State.
5. An Act of the State of North Carolina,
the like ratification.
3. An Act of the State of North Caralina, _ _ „
to the purchaM, bj the United States, of a sufficient
quantit;^ of land on Shell Cartle IfUand, for the parpoee
M ersctuig a beacon thereon, and ceding the jnriadiction
thereof to the United States
4. A cop^ from the journal of proceedings of the Go-
vernor, in tuB Executiie Department, of the Territory
of the United States Northwest of the rirer Ohio, from
July 1, to December 31, 17M.
6. A copy from the records of the Executive proceed-
ings of the same Governor, from Janusjy 1 , to June 30,
IT96; and
6 and 7. A copy of the journal of the proceedings of
the Q«vemor,iii his Executive Department, of the Ter-
ritoiy of the United Statea South of the river Ohio,
&Din September 1, 1794, to September I, 17S6.
8. The Actsof the 1st and Sd seMJoiuof the General
AaaemUy of the same Territory.
G. WASHINGTON.
UaiiaD Statsb, January S9, 1796.
The Me»age and papers were read, and ordered
loUe on the table.
JEAN MARIE DE BORDIE.
The petition of Jeau Marie de Bordie was neit
read. He was a native of S(- Domingo, and had
•erved in the fourth Georgia battalion, during; (he
w«r. He had been a man of property, and did not
receire all his pay. He went to St. Domiagu aud
staid there until the massacre. He hae since found
that his claim for pay is barred. The fad of his
not beioff fully paid does not appear to be certified.
A cerlincaie signed Abraham Joueti, yna read
from the Treasury Office of the State of Oeorgia.
This attested that no trace was there to be fouud
of any payment made to the pelitioner.
Mr. Harsibon moved. Itist the report on (he pe-
tition should be postponed nntilMonuay se'nDight.
Mr. SwAHWtcK hopsd, that thrsgenttemaa would
be relieved. He had come forward to support
America in the hour of her distress ; artd on every
pribeiple of justice, of feneromty, and <ri' ftvtitude
he hoped that America would now assist him.
Mr. S. was even now leadv lofote him some re-
lief. If any gentlemau baa doubts on (his subject,
Mr. S. would be glad to vote for recommitment,
in order that he might have time to satisfy him-
self. Mr. S. seconded the motion of Mt. Har-
STENOGOAFHER TO THE HOUSE.
The House then went into a Committee of the
Whole on (he report from the Stenographical
Committee. The report waa read :
Mi. Bwanwice then rose for the sake of asking
iforraation. He inquired whether the House
ere to sanction aud authorize the reports of (he
roposed stenographer? He had very considera-
e apprehensions about the proptie(y of entering
into tae subject in any mode.
Mr. W. Smitb replied, that the gentleman en-
auged by the committee had undertaken to have
his reports ready for Mr. Brown, printer of the
Philadelphia Qazette, in the morning of the suc-
ceeding day.
Mr. Swakwice rose again. He observed, that to
give universal satisfaction was impracticable. 8o
many gentlemen were to be satisfied, that it nevet
could be accomplished. He observed that one of
the principal causes of complaint against reporters
was of a nature that did not admit a remedy. Gen-
tlemen rose, in (he ardor of discussion, and suffered
many remarks to escape from them, which, neithtt
in thought nor expression, were perfectly correct.
If the reporter, as was his duty, took them down.
and stated them exactly, gentlemen were irritated
by seeing themselves exhibited in (his shape, and
then blame was cast on the reporter. Every de-
gree of praise vras due to the editor of a Philadel-
phia daily newspaper, whom Mr. S. named, and
who had not only done every thing in his power
to obtain the debates of the House at full lengtb,
but bad frequently advertised, that if errors were
committed by his reporter, they should, on appli-
cation, be instantly rectified. More than this, it
was impossible to desire, for no mode of conduct
could be more liberal or candid. But Mr. S. did
not see the propriety of blending the House of
Representative^ and the editor of a newspaper in
this business. The stenographer is to be called
an officer of the House, wTiile he receives eleven
hundred dollars from the printer of a Philadelphis
newspaper. He is thus also the officer of tb6
printer, as well as ours. If we give the gentleman
the proposed salary, we are to depend oo him
alone, whereas at present we have different re-
porters, and two or three of them frequently and
mutually botl^ corroborate and correct each other.
What has escaped one reporter, or "what he has
misunderstood, is often observed by his competi-
tor. The error is amended, or the defect supplied.
Mr. 6. farther observed, mat as far as he bad
read at heard of, such an institution aa the on*
.d by Google'
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
■.R.]
Stenographer Jo the Baute.
[Jandabt, 1796.
now proposed, was aerer known under &□/ Go-
Ternment or in any counlty, that had hitlterto
existed. [It was observed, in some part of the de-
tMte, thai an attempt of tnis kind was once made
by the National Assembly of Fiance.] Mr. S.
expressed himself warmly asainsl Gioverament
making any composition of toe nature now pro-
posed with a printer, and against any attempt for
firing one newspaper an advantaee over another,
y any preference as to the copy. If Mr. 5. wanted
any person to be sure of dismission and disgrace,
be conld not name any other situation where that
dismission and disgrace were so absolutely certain^
as to a person accepting the proposed office of ste-
DogiBpher. If he did his dulf, gentlemen would
frequently not like to see their speeches eiaclly
BE delivered. If he altered them, his utility was
at an end. It would therefore be much bettet to
let the gentleman stay at his own business. <
Mr. Giles objected particularly to the u;>pci.<ii-
tion made in this late stage of the business. He
admitted that it was a delicate step, but he com-
plained in strong terms of the inaccuracy of the
reports now ^ven. He observed that the object
was not merely to find a stenographer who would
satisfy the members of that House, but who
would also give satisfactory information to
public at large.
Mr. Sherbdbnb agreed with the gentleman
up, that the object of the resolution could no
merely to give satisfaction to members, but
formation to the public ; though, if it was
portant that the public should be informed of what
was said in that- House, the proposed resolul'
would be inadequate to its objects. But he ct
ceived it more important for the public to be __
formed of what was done, and that, he observed,
was not always to be inferred from what was said ;
as (the mind being always open to conviction) it
bad not been unusual in a former — he would not
say the present— House, for gentlemen to argue
one way, and vote another. As, therefore,
tain inferencesof the conduct of members wi
drawn from their speeches, and as the publi
more interested in tlieir actions than their sayings,
(a knowledge of which the present resolution was
not, in his opinion, calculated to promote,) it would
not meet his concurrence. But, Mr, S, further
observed, that if the speecli was to be considered as
the infallible indHivim of the subsequent conduct,
as the avowed object of the resolution was to dif-
fuse, through the various parts of the Stales a
knowledge of that conduct, he should oppose it
from a conviction that the means were not com-
Ktent tothe end. The resolution proposed a pub-
ation of the. debates in a daily Philadelphia
paper. These debates woutd necessarily be so
Toluminous as to engross the greater part of such
apublication. Except in Philadelphia, New York,
and one or two other large cities, there were no
aaily ppera ; in all other places, they were not
pu'blislied oftener than once, or, afmost, twice a
week. The daily papers, in comparison with oth-
ers, were few. li, therefore, a daily paper was
engrossed by a detail of the debates, when would
the public arrive at a knowledge of them thiough
medium of a weeUy paper?
The inhabitants of this, and a few other large
towns, might be eratified, perhaps benefited, bf a
speedy perusal oAhem; but when would the citi-
zens of more distant parts of the Union, through
their usual weekly channcb, be indiilged with ine
like opportunities? The difference would be as
six ; and what the inhabitanLi of Philadel-
light become acquainted with in one year.
the people of New Rngland and Georgia woulii
not be informed of in s)x yearSj unless they relin-
quished their oWn' weekly publications for a Phil-
adelphia paper.
Mr. Seoowice said, that he would candidly con-
fess that the House had put itself in a delicate situ-
ation on this subject; yet if, on the whole, gentle-
men be of opinion that the l^easure was improfer,
it ought not, by reason of any antecedent conduct,
to be now further pursued, to the public detriment.
It was also but just to say, that if thb measure was
proper, a more competent and more impartial
Sent than the one proposed could not he obtauied.
i said that the primers had much merit from
their endeavors to communicate to the public the
debates of the House, yet it must be allowed that
their endeavors had been too unsuccessful; that,
in conseouence, much injury had been done, not
only to tne characters of gentlemen as men of tal-
ents, but also, in some instances, to the motives
which had produced public measures. These
were evils to which a remedy should be applied,
if it did not involve those which would be more
injurious. It ought to be remembered that the
man appointed would be an officer of the House,
responsible to it for his fidelity and accuracy. The
debates would then be published under authority of
the House,and it of consequence was responsibLefor
his precise execution of the trust. It was impos-
sible to conceive that at some times, with the best
intention, be should not mistake, and of course
misrepresent. The member in such a situation,
would feel the injury, but redress would be ob-
tained only by the interposition of the House.
This VI ■ ■ -^ ■
id only by tbe interposition of the House.
I would afford ground for numerous appeals,
endless litigation; and, in the end, miKht be
ruinous to many valuable and respectable charac-
ters. It was of importance that no constraiBt
should exist which would prevent gentlemen from
expressing freely and without fear their owrp feel-
ings and opinions and those of their constituents.
How far the fear of misrepresentation, and the
difficulty of correcting it, under such a system,
would jurftdoce such an effect, gentlemen he hoped
would consider before they assented to this propo-
, There was one other consideration, which
had great weight on the mind. Whatever opinioa
we might entertain on tbe subject at present, all
would remember tbe powerful influence of party
and faction, and their intimate connexion witb
iree Governments. From hence it might be easy
to conceive, that hereafter this might be rendered
the most powerful eDsine of an unprincinled ma-
jority, to overawe ans to prostrate and destroy ■
virtuous minority. For no character was so esta-
blished as to withstand for any length erf titte
;dbvG00gle
fflSTOHT OF CONOREffl.
Stmographer to the Botue.
[H.orR.
tbotity of lb& . .
Mr- Harpbb tone in reply lo Mr- SsoawiCK,
who, immediately after he beg[an speakiDg, ob-
■erred that thegeDileman had misiaken his mean'
iD^. Mr. H. said that he peifecily understood the
member, and proceeded to recommeod the object
of the report. He gave credit to the present
reporters for diligence and good inteatioo, but
thought them far inferior (o what might be done.
Great atiaiuments had been made, he admitted,
but more might be done. He thought it of the
highest coiuequence thai the tpeecoes of mem-
beis shoald be correctly published and di^mina-
ted amoDR the people. As to the sum now pro-
posed, a Condon newspaper would give, he had
Qo doubt, five thouGaoa doUara a year for such a
reporter. He questionednot that Woodfall would
receive ten thousand pounds a year from the
printer for hja repotis. It had been objected that
daily papers alone could hold such debates^ but
weeuy and semi-weekly papers could select the
most interestii^ pasiiages of them from the.daily
papers. Mr. H. recommended either that this re-
eart or a similar one should be adopted, or that the
asiness of reporting should at once be put to an
end. He spoke of atroeiaua mistakes. The de-
bates, as now published, held np the House to the
scorn of the world. He would rather have the
doors shui up altogether. He would, if the present
resolalion whs rejected, make a motion to that
effect. He was sorry to learn that the debates bad
been collected into a book, entitled " The Politi
Register," of which he doubted not that inimei
numbers would be sent to Europe, and this book
he reprobated ia the strongest terms.
Mr. Sedowiok obsetTcd, if gentlemen were
represented, in one of the newspapers, where de-
bales were reported, the editor of that paper had
advertised that he was ready to poblish any coi-
rectiaas which might be offered. This notice had
been long and frequently given, and ^tlemen
had it in their power to Jo themselves justice.
The first resolution in the report was then read,
and the question gwng to be put, when
Hr. Baldwin said, that the more the House
advanced into this iSair, the greater was the num-
her of difficulties which occurred. The resolu-
tions had the leas weight with him because they
were hurried through at the close of last "~
The itutitation was unpreeedenied i
Government. He knew that .members might be
misrepreiented, but this scheme woul<f not oure
the evil. He repeatedly declared, that on allgreat
questioits, where talents found an object worth ex-
ertion, the debaleii in that House were very well
represented. He had seen many speeches, sketched
by printers in this city, that he would not wish lo
see better done. He did aot know of any
or particular complaints about inaccuracy. We
have DOW been in session for seven or eight weeks,
and there has not occurred much interesting mat-
ter, to make any remarkaliie debate out of. He
said that the debates, if taken at full Length, would
br exceed the limits of any newspaper. As lo the
expense of printing, that of the Iftwi of ihia ■»-
sion would cost twenty thousand dollars, and he
conjectured that to print the speeches would re-
quire an hundred thousand dollars; and even after
they were printed, it would be necessary to pay
people for being at the trouble to read them, for
otherwise nobody would go. through a perusal (^
every word spoken ia the House.
Mr. NioBOJ^e said, that the reports at present
published were full of notorious falsehoods, and
the characters of members with their constituenta
would have been sunk, if it bad not been known
that this kind of things deserved no credit. He
was in favor of the report He complained that
when pieces were sent to the printers, they
embodied in the sketch, by which means the
reporter got the full credit of them^ which had
pernicious coQsequences. One of bis objections
to the present mode irf reporting was, that the
speeches of members were of^en much improved.
He mentioned an instance from bis own experi-
ence. A speech was once made for him by a per-
son who reports in this House, and who hasa very
good style of writi^. The. style, said Mr. N\,
was above mine. Thcie was not a sentiment in
it which I would have disavowed. It was a bet-
ter speech than minej but, in oti entire column,
there was nothing that I said. As for sendmg cor-
rections to the prmiers, Mr. N. was above it.
Mr. HiLLHOcas was asainst the report. The
loss of four thousand dollars would be a much
greater harm to the public than any injury arising
from inaccurate reports. He did not see that the
characters of members with their constituents .de-
pended on these publications.
Mr. SwAHwicK. — The gentleman from Virginia
last up has suggested that the House have some-
how committed themselves to appoint a sleno-
^pher, by their previous resolution on this sub-
ject ; but that resolution soes only to the commit-
tee receiving proposals. It therefore remains with
this House whether to accept them or not when
made. As to the gentleman who i> the subject of
the resolution, if i have more stre&uouslv than
usual oppoAd the motion, it is from a desire to
keep him from quitting the lucrative situation he
is said to find himself m, to embark on the stormy
sea be is contem^ating. To be the organ of the
members of this House to4heir constituent is in-
deed a very delicate task; one for which, consid-
ering the danger he mitrht be in of an Orpheas's
fate — that of being torn to nieces — the salary is
but a poor compensation. He is to do justice to
the eloquence of some members; he is to clothe
in an elegant dress the uncouth, yet well-meaning
expressions of others ; but what will he do with
the silent members, who never speak at all 1 What
will their consiituenu think of them? Indeed,
sir, if he has the idea I have formed at his danger,
he will not undertake it at all.- Faction and pttvf
have been mentioned : happy stenographer, if he
can keep clAr of these! If he Ml into their
power, insensibly he will represent one side in
clouds and darkness, the other as omamealed
with the brightest beams of light. How will he
please both 7 Misrepresentation is comjplained of:
alas, sir, how quick is erfor — how slow is the pro-
.d by Go Ogle
fl7«
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
B.orR.]
Stenographer to tht Boom.
[jASOiBY, 17B6.
gr«Biof truth ID olmtut all thiags. Out Btenoci_
vher must indeed be a wonder^workiag mao, if be
can rereit ihit tide, and m&ke erery where ligtit
and cortect leasoning prevail. The best mode of
iDfonningouicoDsIitueDts is, by the yeas anil nays
on ontaets; this truly ahows, as a gentlemui from
New Hampshire has observed, our doings, which
are much more iDteresiiug to them than our ab-
atiBcIreaaoniDgs; these our coDstitnents will easily
fonn to themselves ideas of, when they know c
rotes; as the celebrated Dr. JohnsiM is said
have written speeches for members of Parliament
whose general political sentiments he knew, by
knowing these he applied argument* pretty acen-
rately, as he stippo«ed them to bear on every ques-
doD offered. But, it has been observed, if '
not a^ee to have an official Btenographer,
tiouwill be made to clear tbe House of those who
Kow take down debates. These pereoos are tol-
oated only on the principle that our galleries are
open. Woodfall, a celebrated printer, took down
debates from mempry : could we prevent this be-
ing done here? Or should jve drive all prioten
fiom us who take notes, for the inaccuracies ol
some 1 I hope not Tbe liberty of the press has
great title to retpect. How can we agree by e
miscellaneous uiiioD, tbe moststraDge,tocammut(
with Mr. Brown, the printer, the salary of foui
thousand dollan, so as to possess him first of the
proof-sheets, without supposing other printers
will become rivaJa of this business, and complain
if they are thwarted in an equal pursuit of their
own liveLhood 1 The best way ii, to leave this
busine5S,like others, to regulate itself Mr. Brown,
by his labor in this way, has already widely ex-
t«nded the circalation of his paper — evident in hia
present overture — and. by the by, this is no mean
froof of correctness OD Ue whole in his success;
e or others will still go on to improve the busi-
ness, if left to themselves. If he or they fall into
errors, they are their own. Members may correct
.them, or write their own speeches out, if ihey
please. But what has the House to do with this ;
or why should it become the censor and promul-
gator of the speeches of its own members 1 Our
lime is wasted of^en, already, by too many loog
discustioDS on unimporlatil; objects ; but what
would it be if we weK to be every morning sa-
luted with motions to correct the performances of
the ilenographer of the preceding day 1 All the
advantage of the motion is to obtain more accu-
■Bcv ; but. it is said, tbe House means not to pledge
itself for this accuracy : if so, why employ an offi-
ce under its authority for this purpose? On the
whole, sir, we shall in vain seek to escape abuse
and misrepresentatioD ; these ate bjr far too much
in TOgue. All the ooosolation left is, what I usu-
ally apply in such casen— tbat is, the cooscious-
Dcss of not deserving them.
Mr. OiLBEBT was against the report. He thought
•he publication of the laws and tne yeas and uays.
a sufficient means to aommunicate the proceed-
tugs of the House.
Mr. Wm. Lyman said that the debates in one
of the newspapers^he either named or plainly al-
luded to the Phikdel[Aia Gazette) had, for the two
been altogether ezeeptioDable. He
was sorry to learn, that these debates had been
collected by a person who comes here, so that
they would now, perhaps, descend to posterity. If
they were as incorrect in the volume (Tbe Poli-
tical Register^ as they were m the newspaper,
they were a libel on tnat House, and would dis-
grace it with the world. If this resolution was
rejected, it would be advisable to send all the
prmlers to the gallery.
Mr. KiTCBBLL was entirely against the object
of the report.
Mr. Giles said, that he might have taken up
wrong impressions, but he tbougbt the matter
worth trying. It was a thing of eiperimeni, by
vhich he believed that the printer would make
money. He aclfnowledged that for some time
past, several of the reports had been pretty cor-
rect. It is better to let them go out as ibey are,
than to stop them allG«ether. He would not wi^
to press the motion, if it was to meet with oppo-
sition from several Kedilemen who had this day
spoken aeainst it. He moved that tbe Commit-
tee should rise, and the further consideration of
the report he deferred till Monday.
Mr. W. Smith said, it was admitted on all sides,
that it was highly important far the people to re-
ceive the most accurate Information of the pro-
ceedings of the House, and that the debates were,
in general, extremely misrepreseuied. Was it not,
then, the auty of the House to remedy this evil,
and 10 adopt snch measures as would transmit to
the people in every part of the United States the
most accurate information of the conduct of their
Representative si The House bad now an oppor*
lunity of obtainioir the services of a gentleman
peculiarly distinguished for tbe rare talent of re-
porting with accuracy public debates; tbe com-
sensation which would be adequate to such nse-
!'ul and laborious service, was beyond the ability
of any printer ; the House ought therefore to con-
tribute towards it ; the sum required was a trifle,
ipared with the advantages; it was no
object. Tne only question, then, was, whether
the stenographer ought to be an officer of the
House ; in that capacity he certainly would be
ily restrained from the commission of any
Wilful misrepresentation. Mr. 8. did not feel the
force of the objections against tbe reporL It bad
been said that, althongfa the members were now
misrepresented, yet. they had it in their power to
publisn corrections'; but these corrections were
often overlooked, while the misrepretentaiion was
operating very injuriously to the character of the
member ; this wa* generally the case in places re-
mote from the Seat of Government ; the mangled
account of a debate wai repuUished in a distant
paper.
and tbe correction, if it reached the distant
printer, was generally disregarded. Among the
opponents to this report, Mr. S. said be was sor-
prued to find tbe gentleman who represented this
city, [Mr. Swamwick,] who, more than any other
member, should have.withdrawn his opposition to
the measure proposed ; that gentleman's constitu-
ents had it in tbeir power, at any time, to hear the
debates of CongreBa ; they were on the spot; ought
;d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Fbbhdaby, 1790.]
htdiaH TVtuiulf Amwn.
he Dot, then, in candor, to Mtist io fBciliialio; to
(he renole cilizeo* the meuu of obtftiniug the
best knowWge of the proceedings, and the most
correct statement of (he discnsaions of the Housel
Ooght they, from, their remoteness, to be kept in
tbe dark, or to be furnished with such li^nt as
would only mislead ? Had they not a claim on
ibe House to adopt such means as would enable
the citizens in every State to judge of the propri-
ety of public measures? The member from this
city had another exclusive advantage; if misre-
presented, he could correct the error, and the cor-
rection would be read ; that was not the case with
the members from the remoter States, whose re-
putation mi^ht be injured by misrepresentHtion,
without a similar advantage : the member from
this cilv wa-H in the midst of his coostiluents ; he
had daily opportunities of setting right any mis-
itatement by personal explanation.
Mr. S«[TBsaid,he did not agree with some gen-
ilemeo, that it was sufficient for the people to know
what laws were passed, without knowing theprevi-
ous discussions; he thought, on the contrary, tbe
'— ■' - " ■ ■ - . (jjg
favorable or onfarorahle impression of a law o:
public mind would depend in a great degre
the reasons assigned for and agamst it in debate,
»nd the people ought to know those reasons. Wber
■ law passes, imposing a taz,wouldnotthe peopli
be reconciled if they saw, from the discUEsions o
the House, that such tax was unavoidablej and
(bat the partieular mode of taxation was the best
which could bt devised T And ought this inform-
ition to depend entirety on tbe caprice or con-
venience of the reporters, who attended when it
pleased them, and who published just as much of
tbe debate as they found leisure or jmlience to
accomplish ? Mr. B. said be was ecaivinced that
the errors which had excited so much complaint
were not tbe effect of design, but merely of inade-
quacy to the task. Very few were competent to
such a business, which required peculiar skill in
stenQgraphy,verytaboriousapplication,andBclear
comprehieosion of the subject-matter of debate.
It could not be expected (hat persons dins qualified
would derote their whole ume to this business
without an ample reward. The re]>ott was 61
jected to because there was novElty in the plat
II was true the House of Commons of England
had no such officer, but their practice was not a
fit precedent for us on this occasion, fof they ad-
mitted no person to write down, in the House,
their proeeediiigs ; their debates were taken from
memory. This House, on the contrary, had, from
Its hrst institution, facilitated, by every accommo-
dation, tbe reporting their prcxieedings. The thing
was not altogether, howerer, without precedent.
During the existence of the National Assembly
of Ftmace, there were officers of the HoQse who
composed ft daily work called the l^gt^aphy,
which was an exact aeooBnt of the debates of that
body. It had been asked, what eootrol the Honse
were to have over this officer ? He answered that
Ibe stenographer would be liable to be censare
or dia[da(«d, if he should be guilty of wilAil mii-
repreamtation. It would be always easy to dis-
cnmisale betwaen a eaeoal inadverteoee and -
criminal misstatement : the officer's character and
talents, bis reapousibihty to the Honse, and his
h to report with impartiality, would be a snffi-
at nledgeof hisaecnracv. Mr.S. seriouslybe-
lieredtbat tbecharacterofthe House had suffered
from the erroneous statements which had gone
abroad. He wished to guard against this evil in
future ; he was willbg, for himself, riiat every
syllable be uttered witnin those walls should be
carried to every part of the Union, but be depre-
cated misrepresentation. He was aaiions that the
truth should be known in relation to every set of
th^ Government ; for be was as satisfied Inet the
and confidence of tbe people in this Gt>-
I would increase with the promnlgatioB
of truth, as that whatever it had lost of That affeo-
iSJence was owing altt^ther to the
propagation of detraction and calumny. It was
under these impressions thai he bad originally
brought forward tbe proposition and that he now
recommended the report, and having beard no
reasons to change his sentiments of tbe expedi-
ency of the measure, he should persist in support-
ing it.
The motion by Mr. Oilgb was agreed to. The
Committee rose, and, a few nunute after, the
House adjourned to Monday.
ItloKDAT, February 1.
The appropriation bill was received from the
Senate with amendments. None of importance:
the most material one is a proposed appropriation
of thirteen thousand dollars, instead of ten thou-
sand, for the purchase of copper for the Mint. —
Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. H&BrER laid on tbe table a resolution, in
substance as follows :
<• Rttototd, That ladi report^ a* well bam Heads af
DBpaitoiBnts as sdect comaiitleaa, as are important Io
explain the acts of Government, be publidteil at Che
elpeose ol tbe United Slates."
INDIAN TEtADINO HOOSES.
The engrossed bill for estaUidiing trading homes
for ibe Indian tribes was taken into consideration.
The first blank was for the gross sum to be appro-
priated for the general objects of the bill. It was
moved to fill this blank with $150,000.
Mr. WiLLiAMfl spoke in favor of the bill.
Mr. SwiPT stated some general objections to an
appropriation at the present time. The bill had
been postponed for tne purpose of obtaininefnr-
Aer information from the Committee of Wars
and Means relative to tbe actual state of the
finances; this information is not yet received, and
considering the great sums that must be raised
and appropriated for other objects, 'he conceived
chat a Inrther postponement was necessary. He
moved that it ^oald be postponed to tbe third
Tuesd^ in Febtuaty.
Mr. S. Smith urged the nteesiity ^an imme-
diate decision, in order to answering the object of
th .11 in any degree whatever. He recited a
rassage from the Report of the Secretary of tbe
Treaatuy, to show that the Aud* were not so d*-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
U.opR.]
hdian Tmding HouteM.
[Pi
■• 1796.
ficient as the gemlenian had stated; but «]1 ob-
jection an this account was done a^Tay by the plan
which he whs well assured was before the Com-
miUee of Ways and Means, and that was. a re-
duction of tbe Military Etta blisb meat, by which
means a sufficient cum would be found without
hsTing recourse fa new taxe;. The goods ought
to have been written for last September. There
is, perhaps, just time enough left to procure ihem,
but any turther delay will totally defeat the salu-
tary purposes of the oilt.
Mr. GiLKa asked, if voting the money would
raise it? He did not suppose that a delay of a
few days would make any difference in regard (o
the final object. He confessed he had his objec-
tions to the principle of the bill; he did not con-
sider the plan calculated to produce tbe effects
anticipated from it.
Mr. HiLLHODSE urged a speedy decision. The
gentleman from Virgioia say?, that voting the
money wilt not procure it, but will tbe money be
realized unless it is voted? Mr. H., alluding to the
retreDChment of public expenses by the proposed
reduction of the Military Establishment said there
would be no difficulty about raising the money;
but the money will not be immediately wanted.
The Govertiriieat will not be the importer of the
goods. Some merchant will probably be employed
for this purpose, and the payment called for at a
future day. He urged the necessity of despatch.
Mr. Parkeh supported the genetal provision of
the bill, and urged tbe necessity of an immediate
attention to the subject. He calculated on a sur-
plus in the appropriation for the War Department
to provide for this object.
Mr. Harper moved thai the bill should be re-
committed. He then entered into a general con-
sideration of the principlea of the bill, which he
reprobated altc^etber. Alluding to the general
objects of commerce, he said that public bodies
never manage these matters without loss. He
adverted to the repairs of roads, construction of
canals, dtc.; allthese objects prosper imderprivate
individual direction, but when entered into by
public bodies nothing is ever broi^ht to perfection,
and the public monev is lost. He applied these
ideas to ine plan of tne bill. Persons at fifteen
hundred or two thousand miles distance, are lo be
intrusted with public property to a large amount.
It is not in human wisdom to guard against frauds
and impositions; no check or control can be de-
vised wnich will be found adequate to repressing
private rapacity. Mr. H., therefore, wished the
Dill recommitted, for the purpose of an entire new
modification. If the motion should obtain, he
should then move a resolution providing for a li
to individuals for tbe purpose.
Mr. SwAHWioK supported the general principle
of the Uil, and rej^obated the idea of loans to m-
dividuaU; he considered such aj^nasone of the
worst kind of sinking funds. The plan is an ex-
periment; it is not, perhaps, possiUe to predict
^hatwill be the result; hut tlie object is worth
the trial and worthy the attention of the LegisU-
tore. He couideted tbe objefttiona agunat tbe
plan of the bill as applying with greater force
against the proposed sunstitute.
Mr. S. Smith said, when the gentleman from
Bonth Carolina made his motion for a recommit-
ment, he had supposed he would have accompanied
the motion with some reasons; but since he had
heard what he offered as reasons he found him-
self confirmed in his ooinioti of the inexpediency
of bis motion. Mr. a. said, tbe only reason for
the commitment was, that the orinciple of the bill
mightbechanged, by individuals being substituted
for the Government, that is, by loaning the money
to private persons for the purposes of the trade.
He was entirely opposed to tnis principle. Public
debtors are the worst kind of citizens. These
persons, after having expended or lost the money,
will be coming forward with their petitions to be
released from their bonds. He did not wish to
tbe business of the Committee of Claims,
Mr. Swift' enlarged on tbe idea suggested by
Mr. Harper. He thought it infinitely preferable
to leave the business to the enterprise and resource*
of individuals.
Mr. Harper rose in rej^y to Mr. Suith. He
entered into a further consideration and defence of
the plan he had proposed as a sabstitute.
Mr. Dbarbobn objected to Mr. Harper's idea ;
he saw no sufficient reasons lo support the prefer-
ence that gentleman gave to a loan to individuals.
He was in favor of the general principle of the
bill; bethought it economical to appropriate mo-
ney for the object of cultivating ffood understand-
ing and harmony with the Indians, but should
vote for the bill only on the cundition of a reduc-
tion of the Military Establishment.
Mr. Giles entered more lately into a consider-
ation of the principle of the bilT He had no opin-
ion of Governmental bargains — he believed mcy
always turned out losing batons. The clause
whicn provides that the original stock shall not
be diminished, he conceived, would operate against
the ffenetal object of rhe bill, if adhered to; but
this lie did not contemplate ; he supposed that il
would terminate in an aimual provision. Mr. G.
alluded to the PRBamiiRT's Speech, a clause of
which had been recited; he did not consider that,
or a former recommendation of this matter, as
bindingonthe House. If thePnEaiDEHT's Speech
is considered as the political Bible of the ^vem-
ment, the case is different; but he presumed no
person was disposed to assert this. He considered
the House as perfectly free to adopt or reject the
proposition. With respect to the effects of the
measure, gentlemen had differed in their predic-
lioos. PredtctionE which were the nearest to ihe
effects produced, may be considered as the result
of the greater political sagaciiy. He would ven-
tute to predict that the whole sum proposed lo be
appropriated would be sunk in three yeara. With
respect to the fund contemplated from the surplus
of tbe War Department aj^opriation, he consid-
ered it as altogether illusory ; there is no such
surplus, none l^d heretofore been found, and he
presumed none ever would. For thoogb Ine num-
ber of troop! voted had never been niaed, yet the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
t, 1796.]
tntercoiate leiih th^ Indiant,
CH.o
iparlia
whole of the Btoaej appropricled was always
expended.
Some further remarks were made by severttl
memberi, and then the motion for recommittinfc
the bill being put, was lost— 52 to to 34.
Mr. Swift then renewed his motion for a post-
poDemeQl. This, afler a few remarks from that
^nilcman, and a short reply from Mr. Gilbert,
in support of the bill, wasnesratired.
The motion for filling the blank with $150,000,
ns then pat and agreed lo, fifty-six members
Tiling in the affirmative.
On leading the Mction in which the blank for
the penalty is included, Mr. Venablb moved for
il reeommitment of the bill, for the purpose
modifying the section. This motion ga^e
lue lu a variety of observalions, in the course of
which the motion was extended to a general com-
nulment. This motion being put, was lost.
The motion then was, lo rpcommit the second,
fanrth, and sixth wctions. The aecund section
was recommitted. The fourth section provides
Uiai the cai)ital stock of the Untied States em-
larked in this business shall not be diminished.
Mr. ycHABLE'e object was to have the section so
modified as to blend the interest of the iadividual
who is to conduct the business with that of the
pnblic. Mr. S. Smitr said the motion went to
liesiroy the bill, for no person would engage in the
business on such apian. The motion for commil-
liug the fourth section was lost. The sixth sec-
lion assigns the sum of $150,000 to be apmopri-
ited for the general objects of the bill. The mo-
lioD to recommit this section was negatived.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on tlie second section, Mr. Mdb-
LMBEBQ in the Chair.
Mr. Venable moved that the section should be
■Itered lo readj that the agent should give bonds
lo ihe amount in value ofthe goods committed to
his charge.
Mr. J. Smitb supposed that the sum should be
sufficient to cover the amount of the goods which
may at any time be found in the hands of the
agents; from ten to fifteen or twenty thousand
dollars, he supposed, might be sufficient for this
purpose.
Mr. Deabhobk suggested the idea of leaving
this part of the business to the Presioent of tbe
Dnrrsn States. He moved to amend the clause
ucordingly.
Mr. Vbmable'h motion was lost. Mr. Deah-
■orr's motion was agreed to.
The Committee then rose, and the Chairman
Srossed and read the third time to-day.
The bill was subseqnenily read a third time
. passed — 58 members rising in the affirmative.]
Tdbbdat, February
Hr. New and Mr. Ibaac Shith were appointed
1 committee on the part ofthe House to exam'
■he enrolled bills. A mesnge was afleranrds
eeived from the Senate, infonaing the Hoiue of
having appointed Mr. Painb for tbe like
purpose on their part
The amendmeals of the Senate to the appropri-
ion bill were la^en into coDstderalion, and
On motion of Mr. Shitb, of Sonih Carolina,
the Committee of the Whole was .discharged from
any further proceedings on the report of the selecl
committee relative to the appointment of a Ste-
lographer to the House.
Mr. Harfeb called up a motion laid on the ta-
ble yesterday, the purport of which b, that such
reports from the Heads of Departments and select
committees, as may conduce to explaining and un-
derstandinK the laws, should be published at the
expense ofthe United Stales. The motion being
read, Mr. H. moved that it should be referred to
select committee.
Mr. Vabnoh objected to the motion. He did
)t see what purpose would be answered by it.
The laws are sufficiently explicit. He did not
iuppose they would be rendered more so by print-
Qg the reports.
Mr. SBEBBtTRNE Suggested the propriety of ex-
tending tbe resolution to the first, second, and
fourth volumes of the Journals of the Congress
under tbe Confederation. This idea was reduced
motion that the committee should be instruct-
ed accordingly.
The motion for a reference to a select commit-
tee was agreed to. Aho, that the committee be
instructed to report on the expediency of repub-
lishing the above volumes of tke Journals of tbe
old Congresa. A committee of three was ap-
pointed.
The following Message was received from the
Pbesidekt of THE Unitbo States :
Qtntlemai of the Senale, and
of tilt Hoot of RepmenitUMet .■
I tnwnnit herswilh tbe copy of a Letter, dated tlie
19th of December Isit, from OoTornar Blount to Ihe
Secretaiy of War, stating the avowed and dmring de-
iJKiiB of certsin penoiu to take piHwarion of landi bo-
longing to the Cherokeea, and nhieh the United Btatai
have, by treaty, solemnly guaranteed to that oatioii.
The injustice of such intrusions, and the miKhlBvona
consequences which must aecesurily result therefrom,
demand that effectnal proviiion be made to piwanl
G. WA8HINGT0H.
UmTiD ^ATis, FAntary 3, 1796.
Whole House to whom is committed the bill lo
Xlate trade and intercourse with the Indian
s, and to preserve peace on the fhintien.
INTERCOURSE WITH THE INLIANS.
The House then went into Commlltee of the
Whole, on the bill to regulate trade and inters
course with the Indian tribes, and to prewiv*
peace on the frontiers.
Tbe first saetion of the bill came under cos-
sideration. This refers particularly to the Ln*
laid down in tieaties already concluded.
itzo. O.Google
ft87
HISTOBY OP CONGRESS.
H-opA.]
Intercowne irith the Indian»—Di»covery oj Longitude.
tF>
1796.
Mr. Nicholas mored to strike ont the woid
" said," referrinE to the ideal line ia the treaties.
He remArked, tnat treaties were now holding for
the purpoee of forming an actnal line of demarca-
tion, which mi^bt be very difiTeient from that te-
coffnised by existing
lit HlLLHl
ifeaeni fdrm.
9 the line laid down in the treaties was of the
utmost consequence to the objects of the bill. The
design in to recognise, in a summarr and pointed
manner, Ihe line of demarcation. This law is to
■erve as a (krectory to ibe people on the frontiers,
and will be sent into the Indian country. This
will be a simple mode of bringing into one view
the stipulniioni of the seTeral treaties relative to
(bis important point.
Mr. Dayton objected to the section on acconnt
of its connexion with the preamble to the bill,
which is not in itself binding.
Mr. Gbeenuf said the seciifui stoodj in bis opin-
ion, perfectly well ; if it is amended, it will leave
the business in such a state of uocertainty as will
defeat all the salutary purposes of the bill.
Mr. Nicholas said, thai bis motion, to far from
producing the uncertainty anticipated by the gen-
tleman, would hare the direct contrary eBect.
This motion went to enlarge, not to nal-row the
provision for guarding against the violation of the
line so much dreaded.
Mr. Gaij^tin and Mr. Vgnablb supported the
motim for striking out.
Mr. Tract remarked, that the only
itriking out the word appeared to be, that other
Treaties may be made which would alter the
line } he saw no great force in the objection. The
clause provides that the Phesioent op the Un
ED States shall ascerlalD and cause the \\ne to
marked. That is surely desirable. Should the li_,
be afterwards altered oy subsequent Treaties, the
new line will then be. marked under the direction
of the Prehidbht. This will then become the
Ime, And he conceived that there was the ut-
aaost propriety in referring to such line In the
most plain aod positive terms.
Mr. FiHDLEY thought the reference in the clause
to the preamble might be of u^e, and could cer-
tainty do no injury. He was against the amend-
The motion for Btrikini out was negatived.
Some BmeodmentK took place in ibe second sec-
tion on motion of Mr. Hillhouse.
Mr. MiLLBDoE moved to amend the clause
which probibita the citizens of the United States
from crossing ihe line for the purpose of hunting
and destj-oying the game. He said if this provi-
sion is testraiaed, it will be necessary to remove
all the citizens on the frontiers at least twenty
miles within the line.
Mr. HilLhodsb recited the clause of an Indian
Treaty, in which the Untied SlateH bad expressly
stipulated with the ladians, that their citizens
shouUI be restrained in this pertienlar point. He
■aid this very cireumiiaoce is the oeoasitm of the
gieaieEl difficulty with respect to Uie Indians ; they
were fuUy aenabk of - . '
t and well nnderstood the
which were imposed, and it would be
attended with the most pernicious consequences
to give die occasion tofind&ult with the Govern-
ment in this respect.
Mr. MiLLEnoE's motion was not' agreed to.
The Committee made various amendments in
the course of the discussion. Without finishing,
Aey rose and reported progress. Adjourned.
WEnNESDAv, Febrouy 3.
Lemuel Benton, from South Carolina, appear-
ed, was qualified; and took his seat.
Mr. W. Smith reined a bill further extend-
ing the time of receiving on Loan the Domestic
Det^I of the United States. It is proposed by this
bill to extend the time to the 31st day of Decc'm-
ber next. Twice read and committed.
DI800VBKV OF THE LONGHTCDE.
A report on the petition of Frederick Quyer
was read. This petition was for pecuniary aid
from Qovemmeni to enable him to prosecute hit
researches for the discovery of the longitude by
lunar observations. The report is against the
Srayer of tbe petition — the compliance therewith
eing considered by Ihe Gommiltee as unconsti-
tutional.
Mr. Paob moved that the report should be ac-
cepted. He observed that the principle contained
in it, if adopted by the Honse. would, in future,
save Congress from similar applicalioBB.
Mr. Seoowick said, if the object of the genlle-
mau was to have the report placed on the Journal,
and to be considered as establishing a principle,
be should have his doubts as to its propriety. He
should be sorry to have it established as a princi-
ple, that this Government cannot Constitutionally
extend its fostering aid to the useful arts and dis-
coveries ; he did not think that it w«s true that
the Government had not such a power; he, how-
pear that Ihe object was probably attainable by
tbe plan of the petitioner. The petitioner bad leave
to withdraw his petition.
INTERCOUKSE WITH THE 1HDIAM8.
The order of the dajr, on the bill to regulate
trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes, and
to preserve peace on the frontiers, was called up.
Mr. Gallatin moved, if it was in order [tbe
SrEAKEB said it was,} that the Committee of the
Whole should be disci.aTged from any further pro-
ceedings on the bill, and that it be recommitted to
the seKct committee. He grounded his motion
on a motion of amendment brought forward ye»>
teiday, founded on the Message from the Pbesi-
DENT or TBE United Btates, and on a report of
the Aiiornev General, which, (hough it had not
been fonnally commnnicBted, bad been shown to
a particular gentleman of the House. It was nn-
derstood that the amendment referred to respected
tbe line of demaroatiim.
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
FiBBtrART, I796.J
Permanent Stat of Government.
[H.OPB.
Mr. HiLLHODBE nw DO use in recommitting
the bill lo the select committee; no amendment
had been proposed which he did not suppose could
be made id the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Habpeb, who seconded the motion. of com-
milDient, said he mw do impropriety in sendiog
[he bill back (o the select committee — much light
hid been thrown oa the subject iu the course of
the discussion, and it was the duty of the House
to arail ttseJf of this light. Due deliberation on
this important bill was ceitainlv bigblf necessary,
uid if further informatioD shoiud arise Id a. subse-
quent stage of the business, he should be in favor
of a new recommitment.
Mr. Giles was iu favor of the recommitment,
ud if that motion sbould fail, he should then
moTe for a poslponeraent. The Treatr referred
to in the biH has never been officially before the
House. He referred to General Wayne's Treaty.
Mr. Sedgwick saw do purpose thai could be
iDsweted ia'a recommitment It is not pretended
tbat there is any information to be received which
is Dot already in possession of the House. After
recommitting, in the present state of the subject,
the select committee will bring in tbesauke report
vhich is already before us.
The Speaker here informed the House that
die Treaty had been priDted,aiid laid on the desk
of every member ; hut had not been formally laid
before the House. This was exactly the state of
the matter.
Mr. HiLLHOVBE said, that the motioa to recom-
nit ia this stage of the business was not agree-
ible to the practice of the House, and coDveyad
la oblique censure on the select committee-
Mr. Dearbobn said, he did not suf^iosa thi
committee bad neglected to avail itself of all the
inrormatioD withtD its reach ; but as there had
been a great variety of opiuioDs expressed io the
Committee of the Whole, for the sake of greater
unanimity, he should wish to have the bill recam-
mitted, and that .aa addition of two members be
made to (he comraiitee.
Mr. SwANWtcK supported the motion on the
ground thai the bill was predicated on a Treaty
vhich was not before the House,
Mr. Qallatik asked if it would be iu ordi
offer 'a motion grounded on a public document
Seferrine to the Treaty) which is not before the
oose. The Speaker said it would uot be
Mr. Heath was apposed to the recommitment:
be considered it as a retrograde movement, aai*
compared the proposition to Dt. rBA.NKLin'B car
riage with horses before and behind ; Gongres
liooil business prcaressee loo slowly j he hoped
the Committee of the Whole would be suffered ti
proceed ; he saw no difficulty in the way of ma
luring ihe bill in the Committee of the Whole.
The motion for recommitting was agreed tc
and the committee enlarged so as to consist of :
member from each State.
Mr. Blodmt then moved the foUowiog in sub-
■luce: That the above committee be instructed
uy
inquire and report, by bill or otherwise, whether
J and what relief ought to be grwited to per-
sons claiming lands on the SoDthweitem Terri'
tory, purchased from the Slate of North Caralioa;
which lands, since they had been purchased, bad
been ceded by Treaty to the Indians.
This motion was agreed to.
Mr, S, Smitb observed, that the bill waspredi-
cated OD the Treaty made by General Wayne
with ibe Indians. He doubted the propriety of
proceeding on a public document not in posses-
sion of the House. It had been laid before the
members nobody knew how.
Mr. SooaNB said, ihe.Constitution was silenf as
lo the mode to be adopted respecting the promul-
gation of Treaties qfter they had become the sU'
preme laws of the land. He supposed the print-
mgxDd publishing the same, accompanied with a
proclamation, was sufficient ground for tbe House
to go uponinrelation toany aetsorappropriatioiiB
which were rendered necesnry in cotueqneDce
of such Treaties.
The Speakeb here interposed by observing, that
there was no question before the Hoasc.
PEHMAHENT SEAT OP GOVERNMENT.
The House then went into Committee of the
Whole on the report of the select committee rela-
tive to the Federal city. This report concludes
with tbe fallowing resolutions:
" Retohtd, That ths Pieddont of the United BWau
be authoiiied to borrow mch nmu as, in hii judgmont,
■nay be necoMiy (not eiceedini the nun of fiva hun-
dred thousand doUus in the whole, and not eiceediog
two hnndied thousand dollus in any one jeai) to
comfdeting the btuldiogi requisite for the acconunoda-
tion of the Govenimentof the United Stato, at the dtj
of Wuhington; the said LoRn to be secured on the
public property in the add dly, and at nicb Tate of In-
terest ■■ he may judge eipedient, and payable at sneh '
time or tnnea u be may judge proper, after the year one
thonaand eight hvndnd ; and that the United Statei
guenntee to the money-Ienderc, that in case the vro-
perty Ml [hedged Jiall prove inadequate, the United
States will msie good the deflcienCT.
"StMohtd, ThatitshaUbeOBda^afduiConmns-
■toDera appointed by virtue - of the act, entitled ' An
act for estuMiJting Ihe lemporuj end permaneat Seat
of the Government of iM United Stales,' every six
months to render to Ihe Secretary of the Tieasnry a
partjcular ancunt of the receqits and eipenditnrea of
•11 moneys intrusted to them ; and, also, the pTogresa
Hid state of the businesa and the state of the fund* in
theii hands ; >nd genendiv an account of tbor admin-
istration ; and that the said Secretary lay the same b»-
ftjn Congresa at Ihe next aesaion after ttie asme shall
be received ; and that a bill or bills be brought m ac-
cordingly."
The Message of the PHEainBST on thissubject—
a particular detail of the progress of tbe public
buildings^ state of the funds in the hands of the
Commissioners, &c., signed Alexander White; and
the act for establishing the temporary and per-
manent Seat of the Government of the United -
States, on motion by Mr. J. Smith, were read.
Mr. J. Smith, Chairman of the select committee,
who had made the report said, that the reading
of tbe papers had been called for, that the Com-
mittee or the Wbole might have a full view of
;d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Permanent Seat q^ Goeemmtnt.
[FsBRniRT, 1796.
the whole subject before them, that they might
be &ble morefully to judge of the propriely of the
nporL The committee had proposed a Loan on
the principle of economy'. Mr. Smith and Mt.
SwiPT called for ihe reading of several other pa-
pers— these were aeeouncs ofthe espeosea hitherto
iDcurred, balances dOe to the Commissioners, itc.
The firit resolution was then read.
Mt. Swift observed, that he would not propose
any thing which should tend to coutraTeue the
act for establishing the permauent Seat of the
Oovemment ofthe United States. He was willing
that that act should be carried into execution, but
then he was not willing to go to any unnecessary
expense to effect the object.
He stated some objections to the resolacion; he
did not think that a Loan was necessary for the
purposes of the act. The funds in the hands of
the CommisKJ oners, he said, are sufficient to com-
plete the public buildings in such manner as to ac-
commodate Congress at the period pointed out. He
referred to thedetails ofthe lands which had been
read. Another objection he had to the first reso-
lution, was the discretion vested in the Pbesi-
DENT to institute a Loan at an indefinite rate of
interest — another objection to the resolution, in
bis mind, was the guarantee of the Loan by the
UUlted Stales.
He was averse f/om the Ooremment's being
implicated in this business ; he believed it was en-
lirelv unprecedented. Adverting lo the idea of
the lots beinr enhanced in price at a future day,
he very much doubled the accuracy of this. He
was rather of opinion that the Qovetument would
evenluallv be obliged to make good the whole
Loan. Cln the whole, he thought it best for the
Qoverament to have nothing to do with the busi-
ness, but to leave the management of it to the
Commissioners by the aid of the funds in their
hands; with economy they will be sufficient; but
the more money there is granted, the less will be
the economy in exvendioK it
Mr. Mdrbit said, that the eenlleman had taken
the only ground which he beTteved could be taken
to set aside the report of the committee, and that
vras that doe economy had not been obser^d in
the expenditures already made; he believed he
would be puzzled extremely to substantiate this
idea to the amount of one shilling.
Mr.M. said, that no public money to the amount
of one shilling had hitnerto been expended on (he
Federal city ; nor is any public mone^ now asked
for. The object of the resolution u simply a
Loan — a Loan on terms that individuals would
think eligible. Adverting to the objection on ac'
oount of the interest, he did not suppose with the
gentleman that ten, fifteen, or twenty per centum
would be necessary ; he had been intormed that
it eouid be procured for eight per centum.
Taking a general view of the subject, he re-
marked, that all that was asked, was as liitle as
could be expected. It is not a grant, a gift ; it is
simply to guarantee a loan for a public economi-
ihould be amended so as to express the rate of in-
terest at six per cent.
Mt. Brekt said he hoped that the motion
would not obtain. The sum of 5CK),000 dollars is
so inconsiderable compared with the loans con-
templated by the Secretary of the Treasury,
amounting to six millions; that the rate of inte-
rest on Qovernmental loans could not be supposed
to be effected by a rate of eight, ten, or twelve
pet cent, for the sum mentioned in the report.
The security he considered so good, that the
money would be immediately obtained, and the
reimbursement made with ease al almost any rate
of interest. He supposed the economy of the
plan was so obvious, that no man who was dis-
posed to comply with the act for establishing the
permanent Seal of Qovernmenl, would oppose it.
Mr. B. then adverted to the objections offered by
Mr. Swift, and entered into a general statement
of the affairs of the city, to show the policy and
expediency of adopting ine report ofthe commit-
The Speaker here remarked, that the merits
of the report were not under consideration, on
which Mr. Brekt waived any further observa-
Mr. W. Smith slated the difficulties that would
result from not restricting the rale of interest.
He said it was unprecedented in the piaclice of
the Government; even in the loan for the benev-
olent purpose of making peace with Algiers, the
rate of interest was fixed at five per cent. He
adverted to the principle of the report, and said
that when the permanent Seal oi Qovernment
was first agitated, assuranocs were gives that the
United States would never be called upon for any
pecuniary assistance. It has been said that the
money is not now asked for ; but only the guar-
antee of a loan; he observed on this, that the
Ooveinment ought to make the same calculations
as it would were the pavment inevitable on its
part, for the public faitti sbould be pledged to
make good any deficiency that may happen. Mr.
S. was proceeding, when
Mr. Brent rose and said, he would withdraw
his opposition to the motion. He was willing
that sixper cenL should be inserted.
Mr. Giles moved that a blank should be left
for the rate of interest. Mr. Gallatin consented
to vary his motion accordingly.
Mr. Harper, adverting to the period when pay-
ment ofthe instalment shall commence, observed,
that in the year eighteen hundred, the United
States would be called upon for the sum of
1,200,000 dollars, on account of the deferred debt,
&c. He moved that the term should be left blank.
Mr. W. Smith seconded this motion.
Mr. J. Smith said, that it was not to be sup-
posed that the United States would be called
upon to pay one farthing of the loan. If the mea-
sure proposed should be adopted, the properly in
the Federal Citf will immediately rise in value;
bat if it fails, it will paralize the whole business.
Mi. CtiABB said, he hoped the report would not
;dbvG00gle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
Permanent Seat ef Oovemment.
[H-ofR.
b««lieted. No mut «d teriomlT sappoM that i
ikt United States will erer b« called ^on to re- i
imborse one shilUne of thia monsy. The prop-
erty is now the pauic property, and erery princi-
]de irf' prodence and economy forbids tliat it
ihould DOW be sold. Bat if the public faith is sap-
ported for fixing the permanent Seat of OoTero-
ment, the property at the period when the instal-
ments become dae, when toeOorernmeattemoTes
10 the FederalCityj will be so enhanced in ralue as
to funiish a sum much more than amply sufficient
for (he ptupoae of reimbursemmt.
The term of repayment war finally led blank.
Mr. Swirr then moved to strike out the sums
of 500,000 and 200,000, before the word doUars,-
ud leave blanks.
A motion for the Committee rising prevented
iny further discnmoD. They roae, reported pro-
gtn^ and had leare to sit again.
LT, Febroary 4.
Mi. Harper, after a considerable preparatory
address relative lo the Excise Laws, in which he
Retted the difBcnlties, embarrassments, and per-
pteiities attending the execution of those tavrs,
offered three resoluliotts, the objects of which are,
1st. To traOsfei the duties from the commodt-
Ues to the instrnnieDts or machines used,
2d. To transfer the collection to the coUectora
of the State taxes.
3d. To ^ive the State Courts cotpiizanDP of
(ausea arising under those laws. Laid on the
ttJ)Ie.
Mr. W. Smith, of the Oonuuitiee of Wa^ and
M«an3, brought in a report relative to reinforciog
ikc exiatin^ provisioos fw reducing the Pablic
Debt. Thia Kport oontaina «ev«ml resotutioiu on
the subject ; they were twice read and committed
fw Monday next.
PERMANENT SEAT OP QOTEBNMENT.
The HoUM titen vrent into Contniitee of the
WhoU OD the report of the select committee rel
itive to the Federal Cit^.
The morion for striking out the sums of 500,
'OO and 300,000, before the word dollars, in thi
first resdntion, under consideration.
Mr. Hacoh supported the motion for striking
out. He offered some objections to the genem
xale of expcBses.
Mr. FiNDLXT nid he was against striking —
H( was on the select committee, aod recited the
Esoii Tea which had governed them'in the report
'Iwy had brought foiwafd. The question submit-
ted was not whether what had been done was
proper or not, but what was necessary to complete
the plan already begun. The committee had
thought proper lo report the sum of 500,000 dol-
lars in order to draw the attention of the Hoiise
more particularly to the object for which the
money is wanted. Mr. P. thotwbt it was always
diigracefnl to a Legislative body to make appro-
priations which fair abort; the conse^eoee al-
ways was farther ap^ationa. The resolution
only empowera the PREflinENT to borrow the
lum, but it does not follow that it will be all bor.
rowed or expended. He said the sum mleht be
struck out, aod reinserted again, but he saw do
good purpose that would be answered by this.
Mr. NicBOLAa was opposed lo striking out.
He supposed that if a sacn&ce of the public prop-
erty was not determined on, there would be do
hesitation iri making a liberal provisioa: a ni^-
?ardly supply on the other hand would necessari-
ly produce that effect.
Mr. Cbabb. Mr. Chairmah, I flatter myself
that the words five hundred thousand will not be
struck out on any principle, but more especially
the one suggested by the Kenlleman from
North Carolina. What, sir, is the object meant
to be obtained by the memorial on which the
resolution now before you is grounded? Is it
not a reserve of the pablic property, under the
well-founded expectation of a rise in its value?
This yriO. not, cannot be controverted. Then let
us examine the proposition for aooual loans and
annual gaaranlees, and we shall find the comple-
tion of this desirable measure in a great extent
defeated, should we adopt that proposition. For,
inasmucn as the public confidence will be dimin-
ished by this parsimonious mode of legiilation
that will require annual Legislative aid, as cer-
tainly wilt It operate as a cneck on the rise of
public property. If the present application of the
City Commissioners is fullr and completely grati-
fied, public confidence will be fully established;
but if left dependent on the msaions and preju-
dices of fiiture Legislatur^»i, I apprehend it will
The gentleman from Connecticut, with whom
this motion for striking out originated, yesterday,
more than intimated a waste and exlravaeant ex-
penditure of the funds that had already been in
the possession of the Commissioners. If this is a
fact, as the geotUman has made the charge, it
becomes a duty in him to designate and point out
the particular objects of abuse, and that might
lead to a correction of thera;'but round asser-
tions, unsupported by proof, can have no good
effect, and may tend to injure the lepntation and
interest of your public a^nts, Bi>d at all events,
must wound their feelings, perhaps unjustly.
For a moment reflect on the nature and origin of
these funds, and I em persuaded the Committee
wilt think with me, that expenditures hitherto
made by the Commissioners, under the direction
of the rBKaiDBirr. is hardly a proper subject for
examination by this Committee. For, sir, it is
well known that not one cent has yet been ex-
pended by the Union for the progress or accom-
filishment of this great national object. But the
unds applied have arisen from donations, or
grants i)f lots by private citizens of Maryland,
and by voluntary liberal donations from the
States of Virginia and Maryland, accompanied
by acts of the granting Legislatures, that required
annual b -* .?- j; riM_._ .:_
it followi
grants, are the proper t
ny. When the United States have made grants,
or guaranteed loan^ to cherish and increase the
city funds, and thereby become responsible, then, -
eonnts of the expenditure. Then, air,
that the Legislatures that made those
: the proper bodies to make this scruti-
.dbyGoogle
395 .
mSTOBY OP CONGRESS.
fR-]
Ckmietted BieOum.
[Fbbrdirt, 1796.
sir, will that kind of discussioo be proper i before
that it appears premature. The necessity of this
application on the part t»f the CommisEioners is
objected to. 1 will not contend for the necessity.
I think DODe existed. Nor wan it policy, unle^
certain of success. Yet I feel satisfied that it is
sound policy in the General Government to aid
and assist the funds by complying with the reso-
lution. Sure, I am, that if the application had
not been made, the city ^perty was copmen-
surate to all the public objects required ; and no
doubts rests on my miod, if the resolution passes,
but it will increase the funds far beyond the ne-
cessary demands: but I feel itu duty to declare,
that 1 much dqubt the sufficiency of the funds,
provided this application should^ from au ill-timed,
illiberal, contracted policy, miscarry. The re-
fusal of this small parental aid would strongly
convey the idea and enforce belief, that the Gen-
eral Government was not serious, not hrraly
fixed in their purpose of making the present loca-
tion the permanent Seat of Congress. Conse-
quently a sudden and dreadful Jail of lots, the
value of which depends on public opinion
specting that event.
And thuii, sir, a sacrifice of the public interest
must be the result of such mistaken policy. And,
sir, from this loss, one of two evils must follow:
that is, we must either have direct recourse
the Federal Treasury to supply this deficiency,
relinquish this momentous object, hitherto
solemnly adopted after the fullest discussion by
the General Government. Sir, the first and least
of these evils should be cautiously guarded
against; but, sir, the second is an evil of that ex-
tent and magnitude, that no comprehension, how-
ever extensive, can by anticipation arrive at the
fatal result ; nor no language, however strong.
paint it in proper colors, to show fully its baneful
effects J sucn a manifest, indecent, impolitic viola-
tion of public faith aua private rights, acquired
under the sanction of the orkinal law, would
shake the Union to the centre, if not burst asunder
those political bands tliat so happily cement and
bind wis wide extended Union in the govern-
mental com^ot — the sheet anchor of America,
on which all hei strength, wealth, and happiness
must depend.
The motion for striking out 500,000 and 300,00D
was carried, there is a blank consequently before
the word '' dollars ;" no amendment was made '
the second resolution.
The Committee rose and reported the two reso-
lutions with the amendments to the first.
The amendments were taken into considfiratioD
by the House and agreed to.
The question then was on the first resolution
as amended.
The debate was renewed on the general policy
and expediency of the measure.
Mr. KiTcHELL was opposed to it. He said the
public faith was sufficiently pledged by the act
for eaiablishing the permanent Seat of Govern-
ment. He did not suppose this would be mot<
firmly secured by_ going into the measure. Ad-
verting to the exigencies of the Government for
money, he considered the preMnt as (he most
improper time to make any grania or loans; be-
sides, he raw no necessity for them. The funds
already in the hands of the ComnuEsionerB are
sufficient to complete the building for the accom-
modation of Cengress in season. If money should
be wanted at a more favorable time, there was no
doubt it would be granted; but at present be was
opposed to doing anything in the matter.
Mr. J. Smith Mid ^ere was no doubt that
Congrers had a right to withhold dieii aid in this
business at the present time, or any other : the
only question is, whether the measure is expe-
dient or not. The committee had thonrhl it was
1 the principles of economy and sound policy.
The first resolution was agreed to, fifty-seven
members rising in the affirmative.
e second resolution was also adopted. They
then referred to the select committee who
brought in the report, to prepare and bring in a
bill or bills.
The resolutions, as amended, are as follows :
Saoltxd, That the Preadent of Ifae United Statea
be aulhorized to bMrow inch aa&u u, in his judgmeat,
may be neceuarj (not ezceedins the sum of dol-
lars in the whole, and not exceeding in any one
year) for conipleting ihe boildingi requiaite Ibi the ae-
commodation of the Grovei-ninent of the United States,
at the dty of Washington ; the said loui to be aecured
the pnblic property in the said city, uid at a rate of
erest not eiceeding per cent., and payable at
:h time or timea, a* be may judge proper, after the
year-^— ; and dMt the United Statea guaianty to
the money lendara, that in caie the property, ao pledged,
■hall prove inadequate, the United State* will make
good the defidencj.
fioofcMJ, TitAt it ihtll be the duty of the commia-
■ionera, appoinled by virtue of the act, entitled ■* An
act for eataUishiag the lenpoiwy and penDanent Seat
of the Government of the United Stales," erery mi
montha to render to the Secretary of the Treasiuy a
psrtictdar acconni of the receipti and elpenditures of
all moneja iBtTMted to them ; and, alao, the progicas
and atata of the buainws, and the atala of the fonda in
their hands ; and, generally, an aooount of th«r ad-
ration; and that the nid Secretar; lay the
before Congreas at the neat eeMJan after 1^
CONTESTED ELECTION.
On motion of Mr. Swift, the Houm took up the
report of the committee on the contested election
of IsaASi. Smith, one o/ the members of the State
of Vermont. The report was read, whidi con-
cludes thus: " That they are of oninioii that Is-
rael SidiTB is entitled to take his seat in this
Mr- Tbacy moved that the report ahouhl be re-
committed. His reason for the motion was, that
the^titioner might have an opportunity to bring
forward Ugai proof, if such was the fact^ that two
towns, which had been deprived of the opportu-
nity of voting, through the failure of notice on the
part of the Sheriff, contained a sufficient number
of freemen to have changed the result of the elec-
tion. It appeared that the evidence ol this &ct
had been takpa tx parte by the petilionw.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
FuRnAiT,17e6.]
Militia PemioM^ Arrearage* af Army Pay.
[H-opR.
Tlut motioD oeeaoioDed a loog, desnlloiy eon-
venatioD ; Id Uk eonne of which rt wu ssid that
eridenee had been laid before the commiilee (but
which had not been admitted) that those two
towns ccHitaiaed more than tbirLyjierioas entitled
to T[>Ce> It was said, that if ihia was the case, the'
electioa ou^t to be set aside.
The reading of a zteat number of papers was
called for. AmoQE these were ihe cfrtitcales of
ihe town cl«rl[s ofKingMon and Hancock, statiTig
the nnmber of fieenen in those towns, amounting
10 upwards of thirty.- These certificates, ii was
said, were sufficient and lemt eTideose.
It was obserretl by Mr. J. Smith, that the first
SiesiioD to be determined appeared to him to be
is: How br die'ami£sioD of an c^oer to notify
the citizens of one or more districts, onghl to in-
fluenoe in riiiatiag an election.
Mt. Tract withdrew his motion for re-commit-
meni, and moved that Ihe report be postponed;
this was agreed to, and Monday assigned.
MILITIA PENSIONS.
A pepOTt of the Committee of CiaimK on the
petition of John Oriffin was taken up in Commit-
tee of the Wholr. This report contains » resoiur
tiim for jdftcing on the pension list sucb non-coBi-
misMoned officers, mvaician^ prirates, and vo-
luBteen of the Militia, as may be wounded or
disabled ivhan In actual secviee, called oat by any
law of the United States.
Mr. Tracy stated the reasons which had in-
duced the committee to repwt this resolntion.
Theyr were, among^tbers, the uncertainty of the
existing Isw, and the justice, policy, and expedi-
ency of the measure.
The ■'cppn was agread to and reported to the
House. The House atlopted th^ same, and the
Comniitiee ofCUims was directed to bring in a
bill^ccordingiy.
Fridat, February 5.
Mr. W11.LIA11 SiiiTa reported a bill regulating
the granfaof lands approiviated for military ser-
»ices, and for the Society of United Brethren, in-
cbrponted for the purpose of propagating the Gos-
pel among the I nduns. This was twice read, and
eommkt^.
Mr. 8. Smitb caLed up a resolution which he
bad laid on the table some time ago, and moved
that it thonld be referred to the Committee of
Commerce and Manufactures. The purport of
the reaoluttoD is, thai that committee hie instruct-
M to inquire and report whether any, and, if any,
<rhat. alterations may be proper to b< made in the
lam of the United States relative to commerce
and narigatioD. The resolution was referred, pur-
Miant to the motion.
Mr. Madihoh, after some ^neral reiaarLs on
(he sul^ect, offered a retolulioD, the purport of
which n to authorize the Pbemdent or the
Uhitgo States to cause asurvcvof thcmainpost
Mad from Maine to Georgia — tftc evpense^to be
defrayed- out of the snrpTus revenue of the Post
Office. Idid on the tabic.
4th Con. —11
BENJAMIN STROTHER.
A report of the CommitUe of Claims on the
petition of Lieutenant Benjamin Strother was ta-<
uan into consideration. This repert refers the set-
tlement of the- claim of the petitioner lu the ac-
counting officers of the Treasury.
It appeared that the petitioner had matched a
number of troops to tile Army on a route on which
there was no contractor, in consequence of which
Mr. Strother had incurred eipeoaea for the sup-
ply of the troops under his command. The vouch-
ers for the charges had been destroyed by a fite
which burnt the hut of the petitioner ; all the evi-
dence that he could now ofier in support of his ac-
was his oath. The report is louiuled on an
opinion of the committee that no account ought
' be allowed on the oath of any person.
The report occasioned some coarersation, bnt
as final^ aaeepted, and a bill ordered pursuant
thereto.
ARHEABAGES OF ABMY PAY.
The House then went into Comn^tce of the
Whole on a report of the Committee of Claimi,
to whom had been reterred a resolution respecting
a list of arrearages of pay or other emoluments,
which may appear by the books- of the Treasury
to-be dike to the officers and soldier* of the late
Army of the United States for services perfora^
ed during the l^te war. The report states va-
rious reHSMiB for not instituting the inquiry pro*
posed by the res<duiion.
Mr. OiLK said, he aopposed a book had been
kept in the moper Department, in which a gei»-
eral view ofihe aeconnta of all persons employed
by the public had been stated, but, to his astonish-
ment, he found that no such book was in exist-
eace. A strong reason wbv sw:h a book should
have been kept might be drawn from the state-
ment of the Accountant of the Wat Department,
who says that persons had been twice paid, and
that instances of this kind had come to his luiow-
ledge.
The committee say that the subjeet cannot be
many reapeets thev appeared to him to operate
unjastty. From the report, it appeared highly
probable that there ware arrearages due to many
persons; this might be inferred from the deranged
state of the bMiness. if anything was due, justice
demands that it should be paid. But, from what
was disclosed, he was aware that it would be im-
possible to do anything the present sessioa. He
should, however^ reflut on the snbjecL and pre-
pare something in lieu of the reit^utioa he had of-
fered. There are, said he, about an hundred clerks
in the Treasury E>epartment ; he supposed some
of them inigbt nut be very busily employed at the
present time,, and be thought they might be ad-
vantageously engaged in digesting these accounts,
and bringing forward the different balances.
Mr. WitJ>iAM8 was in favor of agreeing to the
report. He recited some facts to show that the
boainesswoatd probably result in ttie United States
.dbyGoogle-
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Arrtaraget of Arm^ Pay.
[Fbbbdart, 1790.
beiDg called upon to pay a gjeat Dumber of a
counts wliicli no principle of justice oUi^d thei
'o discDarge.
Mr., Find LET said, ir the btuiness was practica-
ble, he should think' nothing of the limiiatioii acts ;
they might easily be set aside. But he was can-
vinced, at this lime of day, the statement wished
for could be partially executed.
Mr. Baldwin stated a variety of insuperable
difficulties which would present theraselTes in
prosecuting the mfestiniion proposed.
Mr. Claiborne spose ia favor of the inves-
tigatiun. He hoped that, because some culprits
had imposed on the public, and been twice paid,
that G<>TernmeQt would not refuse to pay a just
debt. He had rather pay ten times the sums liiaa
refuse justice to a man who bad a claim on the
eouDtrv for actual services. He h>d always op-
posed limitation acts as unjust in the extreme ;
they had operated most injuriously. He felt pe-
culiarly concerned on this occasion, and, he hoped
the inquiry would be made. There is a sufficient
Dumber of persons in the public serrice, at high
salaries, to undertake the business, and he hoped
it would not be lost siffhl of.
Mr. DE&aaoHN said he had not supposed that
the books were in the situation e^bited in the
report. He was not, however, prepared to vote
in far or of -the report; he was rather of opinion
4bat something miffhi be done.
Mr. Tbaoy said that the suspension of the limit-
ation act was not the c|uestion before the Com'
mittte of Claims, but simply this: the expedien-
«y of raakiag a list of the- persons who may ap-
pear to have balances due to them. What pur-
tose could such a list answer, but to afford an end-
>n scope of speculation f The consequence would
be, forgmr of powers of attorney without num~
bar, by wniah means thousands oi persons would
gain twentydolhus for whaidid not cost ihem half
a dollar.
On this acconnt. no such book as had been mea-
tioned bad been sept, and he rejoiced that this
. was the case. All the evils attendant on the pub-
lication of the list contemplated would have re-
sulted from such a book; for all the care and se-
oiecy that could have been used woold not have
prevented such a list from having been made. Ad-
rertiua; to the mighty moss of public papers that
must be eiamined in the investigation proposed,
he said that ten years would not be sufficient to
eoinplete the business. He then recapitulated the
nacertainty, perplexity, and eventual injustice
that would attend the work. A large box of pa-
pers had lately been found, which, on examina-
tion, prov^ed to be settlements of accounts, the
parties to which, he had no doubt, had entirely for-
gotten that any such dot ument; were in existence.
Mr. Giles aiffijred entirely from Mr. Traot as
to the effect tfhich would result £rom framing
the list referred to ; he thought it would preveat
rulation. Only persons interested would ap-
fot iaformation^ Had from !;uch the information
iras improperly Withheld. This uncertainty led
person* to dispose of their claims below their va-
lue. He hoped the book he had first mentioned
would be made; he did not conceive it would re-
quire the time stated by the gentleman from Con-
necticut. The persons in tne Treasury Depart-
ment might easily adjust and reduce these ac-
counts to a simple form in a mnch shorter period.
He was, however, sensible that such was tne pre-
sent mode of keeping the accounts in the Treasu-
ry Department, tnat bis resolution would not an-
swer the pnrpose he had in view. He should,
therefore, take an opportunity to reduce his opin-
ion to a different' form, in order to bring forward
a measure that would reach the object.
Mr. Hahper remarked, that the report of the
committee wonld not preclude any person from
cominfc forward with a just claim. He saw no
neceesily for such a list as bad been proposed ;
every man who had a demand asainsl the public
was fully sensible of it, and needed not any publi-
cation of a list to inform him. Mr. Harpbr then
adverted to the evils which would result 4toai the
forming such a list on aecouni of the speculatioo
which It would occasion. He instanced the ex-
perience of the State of Snuth Carolina. He said
he hoped the report of the committee would be
agreed to.
_ Mr. DiYTOB remarked, that it appeared to him
to be very uucandid on toe part of the geotlemen
to attack a member on account of a resolution he
had btouffhi forward, when that member had him-
self withdrawn his support from it ; becoDceired
that such conduct was mdelicate and improper.
Mr. Harper here rose, and observed, tnat if he
had said anything which implied the slightest iia-
pulatiDn' on the motives oi the gentleman from
Virginia in bringing forward the resolution, he
had been misunderstood — he meoDtno such thing.
If his remarks were susceptiUe of such a construc-
tion, he asked the gentleman's pardon.
Mr. Datton replied that the remarks of the
gentleman from South Carolina had struck his
mind in the manner he had slated. He did con-
ceive that it was entirely improper to take up the
time of the House in discussin^a resolution which
was notsupported by the original mover. While
he was Md, Mr. Dayton said that he would just
observe that he had the fullest confidence in the
purity of the motives which had in&uenced the
gentleman from Virginia; be bad done what was
strictly within the line of his duty. Adverting to
the report, he observed, that though he did not
object to it in all its parts, he was clearly of opin-
ion that It was not well founded in staling that it
was impossible to form the list mentioned. He
thought such a list could easily be made, as the
vouchers were in existence to estabLish the clainaa.
'Mr. Tracy said that the committee had not
said tbal it was impossible to make the list ; such.
an intimation is contained in the Accountant's
statement, but is not in the committee's report.
Mr. Harper offered a few more remarks od
what had fallen from (he Speaker, in which he
Suestioned the propriety of a member's being re-
ected on for offering such observations as he had
offered on the report of the Comrailiee of Claims.
The question being called for, the report of the
Committee of Claims was agreed to.
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Fbbbdabt, n96.J
Ca$e of aOtu Oark.
[H.opR.
CABE OP SILAS CLARK.
The leport of the Committee aT Cliums on the
lietitian of Silas CUrk was taken into conaidera-
tioa by the Committee of tlie Wkole.
The report is iifain.it the prayer of the petition,
which was for fuO half pay. The petitioner was
a captain in the Massachusetta line, had returned
his cDmmulation, but was not allowed Any inte'
rest on the certificates returned, so that he never
derived any advantage from them. He is an in-
valid from woaods and disabilities incurred in the
public service during the late war ; his pension is
only one-third of a captain's pay.
Mr. NignoLAS propiised that a general provision
should be made. By a calculation wnich Mr.
Nicholas offered, he said the petitioner had, from
some eauM or other, made a bad bargain in con-
senting to give up nis commutation in lien of a
pension of one-third of his full pay. He conceives
that the claim was founded in justice, and suppos-
ed the case was not a solitary one.
Mr. Heibter uid that, according to hit calcu-
lation, the bargain was in favor of the petitioner ;
ibe fnierest of his half-fMiy did not amount to so
much per annum as his pension. The pension is
9160 a year, the interest on the coiiimiitation is
only SlU.
Mr. Tract went into an extensive considera-
tion of the snbjects of commutation, half-pay, and
pensfons. The petitioner had received the pen-
sion from the beginning, a::d was therefore not en-
titled to interest.
Mr. 8. Bantu supported the claim of ihe peti-
tioner. He recited some eircumstaaces of the bat-
tle of Monmouth, in which this petitioner was
wounded, and in which Captain Clark had borne
a conspicuous part. He expatiated on the merits
of tbe officers of the late Army. Adverting to com-
Dttltatian, he recited the circumstances under
which it -was given. Captain Clark had exchang-
ed it for a pension, but, in doing ibis, he bad,
ihrongh ignorance, made a bad bargain; this isas
demoiksirable as figures can make it. Now, the
question is, whether the Government shall take
an advantage of this contract? He could no '
lieve that it would ; when fully informed of thi
cunutancesj this Government will always allow
and pay a jost claim. Mr. Shith said the peti-
tioner was entitled to his half-pay for serving
through the war, and to his pension ror his wounds
and disabilities; and there was a third demand
which he was entitled to, and that was for '
rest an his pension during the time he did he
Mr. NrCHOLAS read a resolution which he would
offer, if in order, in lieu of the report ol the com-
mittee. The purport of this was to make a gen-
eral provbioD. It was remarked that the report
of the committee ought to be first disposed of.'
Mr. Sbdowice hoped the report of the committ
would he accepted. He adverted to the frequent
allusions to personal services, and said that thi
divtinetioD which was made was not, in his opi
oioD, either candid or-just. Mr. 8. asked what class
or description of person* can be named who did not
«ii0er by the events of the late war. The fanner,
the mechanic, the merchant — all suffered by the
depreciation of the paper money. It was infinitely
to be regretted that tlie officers and soldiers who
carried us triumphantly through the glorious con-
test should not be paid every abilling due to them
for their personal services; but it is also to be
tted tnat the farmer, the mechanic, and every
description of persons, who surrendered up
property to the call of the public did not
re an eq|uivalent: they all made sacrifices,
andwere all victims to their patriotism in a greater
or lesser degree. Can any man sertonaly contem-
plate a reimbursemenl of these losses, or compen-
sation for these sacrifices'? The attempt is imprac-
ticable^ however desirable; I'l is entirely beyond
the abilities of this country.
Mr. B. Smitb. in reply to Mr. SEOowice, said, there
was a wide difference, in his opinion, between per-
sonal servicesand those which nad been mentioned.
While the soldier was fighting the battles of his
country for a pittance, andsuffering all the evils in-
cident in his destitute and hazardous situation, his
merit was infioitely superior to that of the farmer
who sold his corn or nis ox for paper money, or
that of the merchant or mechanic who took the
paper for the purpose of speculation.
Mr. HiLLHOUSE said, that he thought it very
extraordinary that the gentleman fVom Maryland
should bring forwa rdachargeof speculation against
the persons who took paper money : all classes of
persons took it voluntarily for a long time. The
charge involved all thefundsof the ReTotution;for.
unlei>s they had given it a curiency, the cause would
have been lost. But this was not all. Did not the
States ma)ie lender laws to compel the people to
take the paper, and were not thousands ruined by
it — thousands of as good friends to the Revolution
as any description of persons whatever? He saw
no good purpose to be auswered by such compori-
Mr. J. Shits said, he conceived that the two
gentlemen who had lately spoken [Mr. S. Shitb
and Mr. NiCHOL^a] did not understand the sub-
ject. These gentlemen bad blended two things
which ought to be kept separate and distinct, viz :
the engagement on trie part of Congress to give
half-pay to the officers who should serve to the end
of the war, which was afterwards, by agreement,
commuted for five years' whole-pay, and the en-
eagement to give a pension to such ofi&cers as should
have the misfortune to be wounded or otherwise
disabled in the service Mr. 8. considered these
engagements as referring to two different ctaues
of men, viz: able and sonnd men, and invalids.
Those of the former description who should con-
tinue in the service to the end of the war were
Eromised half-pay for life: those who were disa-
led in the service were allowed to retire upon a
■■ ■ bis will,
pension. No man was obliged, against bis will.
to be placed on the pension establishment; and
the fact was. that numbers of officers who were
wounded, either from [wtriotic motives, or other
views, chose to be considered as sound and able
men, and received the emoluments of sach full
pay and the commutation. They could not stirelr
complain that they, though disabled, were still
.dbyGoogle
303
HISFOBT OF CONGBESS.
Competuatiim <^ Memhen.
allowed the emoluments of able-bodied and sound
mSD. But they caoagt be, at the same time, of
both despiiptioQS — both able and disabled. If the
journals oracts of the Governi
Mr. S. was confideat that this would be found to
be the sense of the GoT-ernment If an officer had
the misfarcune to be wounded ill the service, he
might retire, and receire the reward promised
the disabled. If be chose to conlinue in the si
vice as an able man, und the public %ye re pleased
to permit him to do so, and to accept of his
vices OS such, he was at libeity to continue, and
receive the emoluments of the able officer who
served through the war. Mr. S. threw these ideas
out for the consideration of ceolleinen, and should
be obliged to those who womd set him right, if he
was wrong. He conceived that it was not the
intention of gentlemen to take the question imrae-
diatelf, for the usual hour of adjournment had
arrived: he moved that the Committee rise and
report progress.
The Committee accordingly rose, reported pro-
gress, and had leave to sit again.
M off HAT, February 8.
Mr. Tracy, from the Committee of Claims,
presented a bill for tiM relief of certain officers
and soldiers who have been wounded ai disabled
in the actual service of the United States ; which
was read twice and committed.
Mr. Henderson moved a resolution in nearly
the following words ;
"Saeived, That the Committee of ReTuwl and Un-
finished BoiEneBB be iiutnicted U) inquire into the ouid.
bee ofderks fhst are now employed ia the Department
of the TreuDiy, the Department of Stale, and the Wai
Department, and that ^ej inqnire into the nombei oT
cleriu Ast, in their opjnion, maj be necenan for the
service* annexed to tboH Departments and oificea, and
that they make report thereon."
The resoiutioQ was agreed to.
Mr. Sherburne took notice of the very great
expense attending the present mode ot payment
of the intere:st on the Domestic Debt, and, with a
view to remedy the evil; moved —
"That the Committee of Ways and Means do in-
quire whether uij and what sllcrstiona and amend-
ments sre uecessaiy in the mode of. pajing the inlereat
of the National Debt"
Mr. MiTHRAy moved "that a committee be ap-
pointed to inquire whether any, and what, altera-
tions are necessary in the offices of the Govero-
ment of the United States." Ordered to lie on
the table.
THE PUBLIC DEBT.
Mr. W. Smith moved for the order of the day
for taking into consideration the bill fur further
extending the time for receiving on Loau the Na-
tional Debt of the United Stales. The House
accordingly formed itself into a Committee of the
Whole, read the bill, and agreed to it without
aoiendment. The House being again reaamed.
Mr. SwiPT requested the bill raignt lie over till
to-morrow, as ho wished then to propose an
amendment. Agreed to.
The report on the petition of Silas Clark wa.-<
COMPENSATION OF MEMBEH8.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole, on the bill for allowing acompensa'
tion to the members of both Houses, whicn pro-
poset. an annual salary of one thousand dollars to
each member, instead of six dollars per day.
Mr. Giles moved that the word " annually" be
expunged from the bill. He thought the present
mode of cotupensalins the members of the Legis-
lature a good one, and could not conceive why an
alteration should be made. Such a mode of pay-
ment as was now proposed ought to be sanctioned
only upon the matures! delibmtion.
Mr. QooDHOE explained, the reasons which
induced the Committee to propose an annual
instead lof a daily paymeot to members, which
Mias, that members might be induced to greater
despatch In business, and to do away an idea which
had cone abroad amongst many people, that, being
paidliv the day, the members of that House pro-
tracted their session to an unreasonable length.
Mr. GiLBB thought there ought to he no pecU'
niary inducement to members to push forward
business in too rapid a manner, or to abotten their
sessions. An annual salary would doubtless have
this effect, and business, .in consequence, would
most certainly be neglected. It would b« an evil
of the greatest importance; it would be a constant
temptation to members to neglect tbeir duty ; it
would tend to embaitaas all their deliberations.
Indeed, it was a perfectly new mode of requiting
Representatives, and would be supposed to be in-
troducei^for.the purposeof advancing their pay —
an idea which he did not wish to prevail, asi he
IhouKfatthepreseDtaUowanccsufficienl. Helhere-
tore hoped the principle would not be agreed to.
Mr. owANWicK was against the bilLand said,
that to pay members in the way proposed would
be to ofier them a bounty to neglect the business
of the.Legidature.
Mr- Hillhouhe was in favor of the bill. He
said, that the Constitution had provided that Con-
gress should meet once a year, and that more time
was spent during their sitting ihan was taken up
by the Circuits of the Judges. Yet the Judges bad
a salary allowed them, and it was no; found to
have any bad elfect. Complaints are now made
out of dpors that their sesaionf are protracted for
the sake of the daily allowance paid to them.
"ersoas who snid this, said he, do not know that
e are all the time deeply engaged in business,
hich is much lengthened by clashing inter-
ests of different Stales. A yearly salary would
do away this idea, without making any real difier-
ence in the amount naid by the Treasury for their
ces. Ifhethougnt themodeofpaymenlwould
; members to neglect tb^r duty, as ha» been
observed, he too would be against the adoption of
it ; but surely it cadnot be supposed that members
.dbyGoogle
HISTOET OF CONGRESS.
90fe
Compensation to Memben.
[H.opR.
'WHild not sit as long as business should require
them. He observed, they had qow been in ses-
Acn tTO months, and but verr tittle Important
business had been done. He thought the mode
pioposed would tend to remedy, this evil : it was
an experiment at least worth trying.
Mt. FiNDLET did not object to the bill merely
«a ti novelty, bnt because it offered no adTanlage.
Bdaof persons, no doubt, would think one thou-
sand dollars a year too much; but he believed it
beit fo." members to do their duty, without regurJ-
'mg the misapprehensions and prejudices of they
know not whom. He did not think the pay of
members influenced their sitting. The greatest
difficulty, towards the close of the session, was to
keep members together. If, indeed, members would
sltend belter at the beginnioe of a session, and take
ap less lime in speaking;, sessions might be shorter;
but there must, however, be full liberty eiven to
every member to express his sentiments in bis own
■way. No law can regulate people's conceptions.
He ihouffht it best that the members should be
Cid by the day. He should never boast of passing
ITS in a short time, but of passing good laws.
Mr. NicBOLAB wasin favor of the present mode
of compensating members, as the period of their
session was uncertain, and wherever salaries were
batsomeof them would wian to return home sooner
than if they bad been paid in proportion to the
time spent in business. Water, though insensi-
bly, weais awav stones; and such an influence, he
fearedj would nave a tendency to undermine the
tategnty of members. It was better to be slow
(ban too basif in business. He hoped this bill
would not pass as an esperiment, for the effect
mast be corruption ; and when once this enem^
of all Governments is suffered to take root, it is
difficult to eradicate it. Indeed, this bill would be
supposed by many as a cover to advance the pay
of members. If there were any such view, he
vrished members to propose the measure openly.
He iboueht the present pay too much, and if the
people thought it influenced the length of their
sittings, they were of the same opinion.
Mr. Williams was against the bill, though he
believed it to be brought in by the Committee
from the best of motives. It was their opinion it
would shorten the scsskins, and, if carried into
effect, it might do so. If out wages were lowered,
the measure would shorten our sessions. Every
penny beycmil expenses is too much : a medium
salary was desirable. If the pay of members was
increased, officers of Government will do the same.
At present it was true, all the necessaries of life
were at a nigb price; but when the war in Eu-
rope ceases, the case will be different. Whenever
we Adjoara our sessions, (said he,) much business
it necessarily lefl unfinished; and if members
were paid b/ the year instead of by the day, all
tiose whose busioess w^ not completed would be
.~.j« tn ^v that members were hastened away
'^^V° !^l.T salary at home.
it think the business before
die
, cnjoi
ffous* import*"*- Hewasindined,however,
to favor the bill, not that he would grant a larg«
amount in that way than the amount of the present
allowance per day. - The argument of novelty, he
said, woiild not tippty; we are in the business of
experiment. He would observe a fact well known,
that every member in the House was deprived of
the opportunity of puTsuing his occupations at
home, and of lae emoluments arising therefrom,
by his attendance to public business. He did not
believe a yearly allowance would shorten the
lessiona, but it would remove the charge brought
linst members of protraciiag the sessions for the
of their pay. Whether it is necessary to
diminish the present pay is not the
question.
Mr. LtviNQaTorr expected stronger Oiolives for
the bill than he had heard. It is acknowledged a
perfect novelty. This, though by no means deci-
sive, is an objection against the measure, and there
is nothing else lo recommend it. It has, indeed.
been said? it will shorten our sessions ; but would
this be a n^nefit ^ If to continue in session be an
evil, why are we here 7 If it could have heea
proved thai expense would have been saved by the
that would have been a real advantage;
suspicion that we are living here too long. It has
been said, that an idea has gone abroad that we
receive six dollars a day through the year. Few,
he believed, were so ill informed j bnt this bill, if
passed, will cause much more discontent than the
E resent pay occasions. Deliberation in a Lt^is-
iiive body is necessary. The dearest interests of
thepeople,hesaidjWerecommitted to their ohacgb
and he trusted they would watch over them, ana
never suffer them to be injured; and then, it was
his opinion their constituents would not think
much of their pay.
Mr. Baldwin said, that it was a disagreeable
business to be employed in discussing the sObject
of paving themselves (or their services: it would
be a desirable thing to supersede The neeeuity of
doing so. The Coaimittce donbdeas tfanoght one
thousand per annum Would be aa improvBDMUt
upon the present mode o( paying members,but he
could not think so. He thought it best tlMt the
allowance should be paid in the old way.
Mr. Gilbgbt; was williiig to try the experiment
oftbebillproposed. He did not believ? that either
the present d&ily allowance lengthened, or that an
annual salary would shorten, the sessions. He
thought to say the coutrary was a base insinua-
Mr. Bourne never heard it was the wish of theii
constituents that their payment should be annual
instead of per day. He had heard it comi^ained
that their pay was too high; but now, since the
price of living is so much advanced, he believe^
the people were satisfied. . He saw no advantages
itom the proposed change. It cannot be thougbt
that the pay is an inducement to members to pro-
long their sessions: he hod not beard siichacDm-
plamt. He was m favor of striking out the wonl
" anoaally," and fot recommitting the bill.
Mr. Madisoh ohtterved, that the present bill pro-
;d by Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H,opR.]
Tke DomttHc Debt.
[Fbbbuabt,1T9G.
posed no alteration with respeci to thi; amount of
mooerto he drawn from the Treasarj', and it can
make out little difference to loembers. What had
been tneniioned as the adrantages of this bill, in
hia opinion, would operate against it. A novelty,
he said, altrays called for hesitation.
Mr. SwANWicE thought, if they enacted good
laws — laws that shonid encourage at[riouiiure and
commerce — their coostituenta would not troubli
themselves about their salary.
Mr. Giles rose to remark upon an eipressioi
which fell from Mr. Gilbert, viz., chat, to say
members were likely to be inttuenced by the pro-
posed salary, was a vile insinuation. He declared
that it was a recommendation of the bill in the
committee, that it would tend to shorteo their
Mr. Gilbert explained, and jasiified the ex-
pression. '
The motion for striking out the word ''aunu-
allj" was called for, and passed.
The Committee rose, and asked leave to sit
■gain, which being granted, the House resumed
itself; and the motion being put by the Sfgakeb
for leave that the Committee sit a^in, it was ne-
gatived ; and the bill was recommitted.
And ^e House adjourned.
Tuesday, Febrttary 9.
Fibber Ames, of Massachusetts, appeared, was
qualified, and took his seaL
The bill for allowing a certain compensation
per day to members of both Houses, was read a
first and second tlroe.Hiid ordered to be referred to a
Committee of the Whole to-moirow.
THE DOMESTIC DEBT.
It was then moved that the House take up the
lull for further extending the term of receiving on
Loan the Debt of the United States ; which being
■greed to,
Mr. SwiPT moved a clause to be added to the
bill to the following effect:
*■ That it shaU bs lawful for the offioen of the IVea-
■D17 to lacetve on Loan Continentil bilk."
He observed that he moved this clause because
the officers of the Treasury had, for some time
past, refused to receive Continental bills, as lisual
and it was necessary to have the matter regulated
by an act of Congress. Different
had been put upon the laws regulating the pay-
ment of these bills i he thought they ought to be
received as usual ; for though the act of limita-
n be supposed to have barred the payment of
them, an act passed Eince must eztena it. He
w«s not disposed to repeal the statute of limita-
tion; but, with respect to Continental money,
there can be no fraud or deception, and there was
certainly justice in the claim. '
Mr. GoonBDE noticed that it had been observ-
ed that the officers of the Treasury had put a wrong
eonttruction upon the law regulating the funding
of the PnblieDebt; but he thouriit differently.
He thought they acted right in reusing to receive
Continental bilU. None of them, he observed.
had been received for the two last year;. No one
could say which was just, or the contrary : There
were many counterfeits, and many of them bad
been bougot up for a mere trifle.
Mr. MiooK said these bills should have been
funded sooner- There were immense counterfeits,
be observed, and if there were one case more than
another in which the act of limitation ought not
to be repealed, it was this.
Mr. Hellhoobe said, that all that part of Con-
tinental money which was not barrea by the sta-
tute of limitation was now received at the Trea-
sury. Much of it was now in the Auditor's of-
fice, which would be received without objectioo.
But if any one wished o!d Continental money,
which had long been considered as dead, to be re-
ceived on loan, a bill should be brought in for re-
pealing a part of the limitation law-
Mr. a*Li.AT!s WHS in favor of thi- clnuse. The
act of limitation was not sufficiently clear vi'ith
respect to Continental money, to be understood
by the holders of it. The officers of the Treasury
themselves, it seeitas, mistook the meaning of the
law, and therefore others less versed in matters of
this sort, might be supposed to do the same. The
construction put upon the act, though true, was
forced, and there ought to be a chance given to
those who were mistaken. The reason the hold-
ers of this money did not fund it, when the fund-
ing system was adopted, might be owing to the
unfairness of preference to different kinds of secu-
rities. He allowed there might be danger from
counterfeits, but that these miffht be avoided by
the customary means. He wished always to act
for the public, as in a case of his own ; and if the
present case was his own, he should be for allow-
•~.a the claima.
Mr. Seikjwice remembered that when the fund-
ing taw passed, that the value of the certidcales
was very low, which was the reason, he conclud-
ed, many were not funded. The speculators, no
doubt, had taken care to fund what bills they had
me ; and what bills remained, he believed to
I the hands of real holders. If these claims
had been barred by taw, he shonid be opposed to
">eniQg a door for their admission ; but if not, he
lould wish to declare that they will now be per-
mitted to fund. The funding law explained the
various species of dibt which were to be funded i
afterwards came the act of limitation ; then an act
to authorize a re-loan. If this act authorized of-
ficers of (he Treasury to receive Continental bills,
they should have done so, If the construction put
upon the law by the officers of the Treasury, be
wrong, a declaration should be made by that
House to set them right. There are doubtless
counterfeit bills, hot he believed the persons who
had heretofore been employed to detect these,
yet to be found. He had always thought
the House went too far in depreciating, by an act
of the Legislature, this species of money, and
wished the House to be explicit whether it would
be received or not.
Mr. SwANWicK remarked, that the situation of
the House was one of the most curious they had
yet been placed in. AAer a lapse of nearly twenty
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONaRESS.
Pebhdart, 1796.]
TRe PvbUc Debt.
[H.0
years from the cminsiDn of Coptinental moiiFy.
tfaey were called upon now to uy whether it
should be adniiited to subscription as part of the
Domestic Debt of the- United States? Every
body woald pause at such a moment, and think a
wbiJe on wars; onGoTemment; on paper credit:
subject to such revolutions ; such strange incidents
oftune: Who, in 1776, could have pr^iicted such
a debate within these walls in 1796 1 But, since
it ha^ happened, let us inquire a little into the
merits of ibis quest ion.
A gentleman [my colleague, from Peonsyl-
vania, I has reraarhea, that he draws, in point of
debt, the line for the public as he would for him-
self. The general principle is doubtless a correct
one; bat there are exceptions. The public, with
respect to money matters, is placed in the situa-
tion of the widow or the orphan. Frauds may
be practised- that it cannot Kuard against: hence
the necessity of statutes of limitation. One hath
been accordmgly passed on this rery subject, snp-
posed to ineludie the Continental money. The
Treasury Department hath understood it so ; the
laie Attorney General (Mr. Bradford) hath so in-
terpreted it; but it is said, after all, to be doubl-
fal : and so we, in ord^r to clear away the doubt,
are to pass a new clause to settle the doubt. Were
there no tribunals, no Jodiciary competent to set-
tle the constiuctioD, it certainly is a aelicat« thibg
for us to unsettle the prnctice and opinion that
hath prevailed. The statute of limitation is a
delicate ark to touch. We have had hefore us
many of our suffering officers and soldiery bro-
thera at least with the Continental money, m ef-
fecting our freedom; but these 'we have trans-
mitted to the Committee of Claims, who usually
report only that their claims are barred. Why
not send the' money to the same committee we
■end the Army tol What is there in the form
or snbst«Dce of these bills that entitles them to
more respect? It is said they remain in the bands
of the oneinal holders, and have nut passed into
those of the speculators. Alas^ sir ! tne wounds
of onr soldier; may at least be idenli6ed an much
as the possessors of this money can be. If the
law be positive as to one, shall it be doubtful as
to the other 7 In the money, we are said to be
in danger of Counterfeits ; out it~ is said some
clerb are still alivewhocan vouch for the authenti-
city— what good fortune that lime halh spared
of this claim 1 In short, I am for supporting tha
Pundinr System and statutes of limitation as they
are,wtthont innovation— without all station . Tbis
raper money hath passed away like that of the
Slates before the Revolution ; and since, as a kind
of indirect tax, it hath fallen into a silent obli-
Tion ; let us not resuscitate it ; let us not disturb
its a^es. I am against the clause.
Mr. Makibon said it was the intention of the
Legislainre to apply the act of limitation to
Continental money, as well as to other claims ; and
if it was to be admitted, other claims must be allow-
ed. Jf a review of the act of limitation be proper,
he would not wiib to blend it with other bueiness.
Mr. Swift acknowledged that it was his object
to comprehend Continental money, which was
in the hands of individuals; he made no referenee-
to what was already in the Treasury. He wish-
ed lo have the clause he proposed in the present
apt to prevent future misunderstanding; though
he thought therecould be no doubt of the meaning
of former acts ; indeed the officers of the Treasury
oonsiTued them in favor of the bills in question
for seven months. We had nothing to do with
the consideration whether speeulatois or others
had the bills; he thought they ought to be te-
Mr. BALDwrn touched upon the nature of ihe
general and definite construction, and the maimet
of applyiog these to laws. He observed the quan-
tity of counterfeits of the kind of paper in ques>
lion was notorious. It was well known that
during the war mills were employed to manu>
faciure it; and upon that ground, be supposed it
.was excluded.
Mr. Giles was against a declaratory law, and
against the clause brought into the House so sud-
denly. He thought the officers of the Treasury
were right in their opiolon ; indeed it was con-
Gimed oy that of the Attorney General, whom
ihey had consulted upon the occasion. He wish-
ed to disconnect this clause frooi the present bill,
and to move that it be referred to a Committee d*
the Whole House. If [he statute of limitation
caa be justified any where, it is where it prevents
abuses; and none could be subject to more than
the admission of thes« bills. It would be impossi-
ble to delect counterfeits.
Mr. WiLLiAMa said, that it appeared, from mem-
bet? on both sides of the present question, that
ibt acts alluded to are so complicated as not to
be clearly understood, which shows the necessity
of making laws as plain and simple as possible.
As some of these bills bad been received since
the passing of the act of limitation, he thoudil
others ought to have the same privilege. He
a third reading to-morrow.
THE PUBLIC DEBT.
The order of the day was called for on the re-
port of the Committee of Ways and Means, to
whom it wasreferred," Whether further measures
are necessary to reinforce the existing provisions
for the Public Debt."
The House accordingly formed itself into a
Committee of the Whole; and, after some re-
marks from Mr. W. Smith, Mr. COit, Mr. Gai^
LATIN, Mr. SwANWicK, and Mr. HiLLBOuSB, re-
specting a small variation in interest, to prevent
the introduction of too many fractions, the busi-
ness being allowed to be somewhat complex, it
wa-t moved that the Committee rise and ask leave
This was agreed to, and soon after which the
House adjourned.
;dbvG00gle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.OF.R.]
[Fbhouv, 1796.
Wednebdat, February 10.
g neat IS o'clock, and the Sfeakvb hav-
um of
e that
the members abseat should be tent for, and the
Sergeaut-at-Anns was Bcsordingly aommissioDed
(o aummoD the absenleeB. A quorum being at
IcDgth obtaioed. the Home proceeded to business.
The bill for further extendinE the time for te-
eeiviog on Loan the Domestic Debt of the United
Btates, was read a third lime and passed.
REFUNDING DUTIES.
The order of the day was called for on the re-
port of the Commitlee of Commerce and Maou-
lacture^'oD the petilioos of Jose Roiz Silra, Ne^
bemiah Somes, James Strange, Israel LorioSj &
Co. And the report of the committee on tbe first
petition being read, a number of observations
were made by many members, for and against re-
ceJTing this report, which was in favor of the pe-
titioner who prayed for the return of $2,521 60,
which he DTer-paid in duty upon 197 pipes and
7 quarter casks of wine from the Island of Gra-
ciosa. The way in which he was stated to have
done thia>was, no invoice arrived with his wine;
and tbeCotlecIorof the District charged the wine
at 30 cents per millaD, as wine of a superior qua-
lity^ and Mr. Silva having given bond for tbe se-
cuimg of the duty, on condition of its being duly
regulated when the invoice was received. When
it did arrive, it appeared that the wine was of
Tery inferior quality, and should have Ijeen charged
only with a duty of W per cent, ad valorem j but
die CoUector bad transmitted his accounts to the
Treasury of the United States, and, though be
acknowledged the duty to be overrated, yet tbe
account must be dL'^harged, and he must look for
relief from Congress.
This business liaving considerably occupied the
rime of the House, the Speaker observed it was
become necessary to recommit the bill for the
sake of order; for several members had spoken
twice aud others three times upon the question of
receiriog the raprt, some of whom had not
spoken at all when the subject was before a Com-
mittee of the Whole.
Several members said, (hat, as all the circum-
stances of tbe case was before the House, there
was DO necessity for a recommittal. Others spoke
in favor of it; aod, tbe motion being put for a re-
committal, it ms agreed to.
The House having resolVed itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole, several cerlificales being
then read to prove the inferior quality of the
wine, one of wnich asserted it was no better than
Mr. Deabbobh observed, that though Govern-
ment ought to treat mercQanls with lenity and
candor, yet that House ought to he cautious of
opening a door to merchants who might be in-
clined lo be dishonest, to take advantaees of the
officers of (he revenue. He should be freely dis-
posed to grant relief to the petitioner if he was
certain that in case it was not graoied he would
be the only sufferer. Bat he was not certain
whether the wine had not been diqxMed at con-
ditionallv, with respect to the duty to which it
was liable.
Mr. Claibokhe said, it was true that their door
wa.'' open (o petitions, but they were seldom
granted. It plainly appears that this man has
paid upwards of |2,500 for duty more than he
ought to have paid. The transaction appearsfree
from fraud, and, therefore, he ought to nave the
money refunded. We oueht either to do justice
to petitioners, or shut our uoors against them. To
trifle with netitioneis was an amusement be was
tired of. Tne equity of CoogresE ought to give
relief in all cases where it can he done wkth pro-
priety. As much time was spent in discussing
the merits of petitions as would satisfy many d'
the claims.
Mr. Sahdel Smith thought this one of those
eases upon which there could be no doubt. He
stated it to be the practice of merchants to give
bond for duties in the way Mr. Silva had done.
The transaction throughout was perfectly fair.
Upon what principle, then, can Coogrew lefuse to
do justice to this merchant? It has no plea hut
one. We have given (said be) so many leaves to
withdraw, that we are unwilling to allow a prayer
lo be granted. No door is open to fraud by tW
act. Merchants do not expect to be treated with
rigor by Government ; they expect Qoverument
will rather show lenity towards them. The Ctd-
leclor at New York, he said, would have returned
thp over-paid duty, but it was not in his power.
He himself had had twosimilaf cases (o this, only
that his invoices arrived in time ; but, if they
had not, he should have thought it hard not to
bavehad his petition to Congress for relief granted.
A member had supposed the wine mignt have
been sold as paying 20 cents duty ; hut merchants
must sell upon the same terms as their neighbors.
Besides, Mr. Silra never thought of paying 20
cents per gallon for it, but always calculated upoa
the ad valorem duty. It was one of those claims
we oi^ght by all means to allow. We o^ghi to
keep friends with tbe merchants, fur they are the
collectors of duties for the United Stales. At
present they do all they can for Government^ but
if ihey were to be set against it by ill treatment,
it would be in their power to be of considerable
injury to the revenue.
Mr. GiLBBBT saw BO reason why tbe petitiooet
should nb> be relieved. He wished officers would
confine ihemsertes within the law.
Mr. BouBHE aaid, it appeared to him that tbe
Collector did very wrong in staling the wine as
Fayal wine, which seems lo have been oi so in-
ferioi a quality. He was not authorised to da
this. A value should have been put upon it. It
does not appear that the importer coasenled to
ibis duty. Indeed, the Collector himseLf allows
the justice of his claim. It would be unreasotk-
able, indeed, that the petitioner should suffer for
the irregularity of tbe CoUector.
Mr. Williams could not hear the officer blamed
in this business without justifying him — he did
not believe him blameable. He doubled not that
tbe merchant had consented to have the wine
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP COKGREfW.
Pott Roadafitfn Mune to Georgia.
[H.t
\e arrived. Certifitwtes ore biooglit
Ibat 37 out of 197 pipes of wine were of inferior
qualiif . But bow IS it cle»r that ibis ia the wine
beimponed! Why not bring a certificate of more
Ihao 37 pipeal The wine never baviDf been in
the hantl* of the Collector, he could not koon the
quality. Eleven montba had elapsed before the
iqvoice arrived. It was possible for ihia to have
been a secoud invoice, coarged on lower teima
than (he wine was r^tUjr purchased at. It (las
ken uid we ought to be cautious not lo offend
merehaDts. He allowed mercb&ats to be servtce-
ible to Oavernmeat, but Government waa also
(araiable to them in allowing ihem canaidenble
credits. He wished not lo be thougbtkaimical to-
JueichaDtB ; he wLjbed only to prevent abuses.
Mr. Ibrabl Smith was of opinion (bat these
were facts sufficient lo show Inat the merchant
Wis in no way to blame. If there was any cul-
nbilily, it must attach to the officer aad nol to
n. He should be sorry if the House did not
feel inclined to grant relief to real auflereis.
Mr. Pakkbb observed, «o much had already
been said upon thb subject, that he fell rdiKlani
to rite ; but he wished tQ do away some obiee-
lions which had been stated lo this claim. It baA
been said that certificates had only mentioned 37
casks as being of inferior quality. He caused lo
beread a certificate from (he lospec'lors at New
York, declaring that the wine imported in the
Te:>sel alluded lo was no better than cider. It has
been hinted that there nu^ht have been a eollu-
lian in the business. He did nol think so. Belief
ought to be granted. We should be more parsi-
moDioos than wise to reject this clvm. Mer- 1
ehauti, ii was well known, always paid their du--!
tie* with honor, aad no advaatage sbouU be taken
of them. >.
Mr. OoODBUE,of the commitXee, roae to. answer
■ quesiioQ put to him by a oKmber. He went
through the practice of the custom-house upon
tliese occasions, and justified ihe regularity of the
whole proceedingi.
The report wa« put to the vole, agreed to, and
the Committee rose.
The Honse being resumed, agreed to the report
of the commitiee.
The report of the committee on the petilion of
James Strange and Nehemiah Sonus, for the re-
uiEsion of duties on a quantity of salt lost at saa
and by fire, wat read and agreed (o. The petitiota
was not giaated.
The comroittee's report upon the petition of Is-
rael Loring was next read, which called forth a
Dauber of observations from di&reni members.
He is stated to have imported a quantity of indigo
from New Orleans, is July, 1794, on which the
duties were Mcored according to law, and that in
August following he re-shipped the said indigo
(or Amjicrdam. under ihe iiupeelion of one of
the pori officers, and his return was duly nude to
the Cnstom-bouie ; and thai in the tranMctionof
this businen every requisite was complied with
except that of giving bond and lakiog Cba oath
pcMcribed by law, that the indigo shotild not be
reJanded in the United Btatet ; thai the omissioii
was in consequence of the great number of pn-
sons who w«re in (he office at the time he went
to ^ive bond and lake the oath, and the hurry of
business he was then engaged in, and also coo-
ceivi&g that it might be done as well at auy other
lime ; ,by means of which omission the drawr
back on the eiportalion is not allowed, notwith-
standing he has all the necesBary proofs to show
that ihe said indisp was bonafale landed and sokt
at Amsterdam. He, therefore, prays for ihb in-
terposition Qf Congress, and tbat the drawback
OD the said indigo may be allowed.
The report of tike committee waaim favor of
.e jKtilioner ; but several objectians were ur^d
against agreeiug to il ; the principal of which
were that the law was positively against the
of the debate upon this claim coQsideraUe
illustration was thrown upon the nature of bonn-
ties and dtawbaeks.
The report of the committee was- finally agteed
to ; and tttei^ the House adjourned. ,
THDRairaT, February 11.
POST B0AD8 FROM MAINE TO GEORGIA.
Mr. Madison moved thai the resolation laid
npon ihe table some days ago be taken up, rela-
tive to the survey of the post roads between the
Province of Maine and Qeorgia; which, beiog
read, be observed ihal two good effects would
arise from carrying this resolution into effect : the
shortest route from one i^ace to another would be
delermiuedjipon, and persons, having a certainly
oi the stability of the. roads, would nol hesilale to
make improvemeuts upon them.
Mr. Balowih was glad to see this business
bronght forward; the sooner it could be carried
into effect the better: In many partsof the coun-
try, he said, there were no impioved roads, nothing
better than the original Indian l^nck. Bridges
and other improvenents are always. made with
reluctance whilst roads remain in this slate, be-
cause it is known as ihe country increases ia po-
pulB(iou and wealth, betier and shorter roads will
be roade. -All expesse of this sort, indeed, i* lost.
Il was property the business t^ ibe General Gor-
ernmeut, he said, to undertake the improvement
of the roads, for the difierent States are iacompe-
tent to the business, their diffeient designs ckMb-
ing with each other. It is enough for them to
make good roads to the different seaports ; the
cross roads should be left to ihfr government ai
the whole. The expense, he thought, would not
be very great Let a Surveyor point oat the
shoriBft and best track, and the money will soon
be raised. There was nothing io this country, he
said, of which we ought to be more ashamed than
our public roads.
Mr. Bourne thought ven' vahiable effects would
arise from the carryitigof this resolution iato ef- '
feci. The preseot roads may be mueh shortened.
The Eastern States had madegteatibprovenaola
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
pyR.]
ConUtted Etectim.
in theii roads, and he tinsied tbe beat - effects
would arise from having regular mails from one
end of the UDtoa to the other.
Mr. Williams did not ibink it right for the re-
venues of the Post Office to be applied to this
end. He aoknowledged the propriety of extend-
ing the post roads to every part of the Unian ; he
ihoiight the House had better wait for the report
of the committee to which bosiness relative to
the Post Office had heeu referred, which was pre-
paring to be laid before the Home.
Mr. Madison- esplained the nature and object
of the resolntioD. He said it was the commence-
meni of bd eitensive work. He wisbed not to
extend it at present. The expense of the survey
would be great. The Post Officer, he believed,
would have no objectioD to the intended regu-
After some obserralions from Mr. Thatcher,
on the obtaining of the shortest distance from one
place toanother, and the comparing old with new
roads, so as to come at the shortest and best, the
resolution was agreed to, as follows ;
Retolved, That a committee be appointed to re-
portia bill authorizing the President of the
United States to cause to be examined, and.
where necessary, to be snrveyed, the general route
most proper for the transportation of the mail be-
tween , in Maine, and , in the State of
Georgia, and to cause to he laid before Congress
the result of such eiaminalion and surrey, with
an estimate of the expense of rendering such
route fit, in all its parts, to be the estaolished
route of the post ; the expense of such examina-
tioD and surrey to be defrayed out of the surplus
revenues of the Post Office.
Ordered, That Mr. Madibon, Mr. Thatcher,
Mr. Baldwin, Mr. Hendbrbon, and Mr. 8ber-
srRNE, be appointed a committee pursuant to tbe
said resolution.
INVALID SHIPS' REGISTERS.
The report of the Committee of Commerce
and Manuia^res on the petitions of sundry mer-
chants of Pmradelphia and New York, whose re-
gisters of ships bad become Invalid, in conse-
quence of all the owners not havin? taken the
oath required by the act couceming toe regisler-
ing of vessels, and transmitted the same within
ninety days to the CoUeclor, by which means
their ships and cargoes are subject to the same
duties as though their ships were foreign ; stating
that such omissions were, in some cases, unavoif
able, from the absence of same of the owners, in
others from ignorance of any such requisite, but in
none from wilful negligence : they pray, there-
fore, relief from the very heavy extra duty. The
report of the committee is in favor of (ne peti-
tioners ; which, being read, was agreed to ; and
this report, witd those on the cases of Israel Lo-
ving and Jose Roi* Silva, were referred back to
the committee to bring in the pioper bills.
CASE OF C0MTE8TED ELECTION.
Ht. Swift moved that tbe House take up the
raport of the Committee of BlectioiM on the pe-
tition of Matthbw Ltom BgainM an undue re-
turn of Ibhael Smith, b member of that House.
The report being read, which was agtinst the pe-
titioner and in favor of the sitting member, a
objected to the form of the com-
mittee's report, and moved that it be recommit-
ted. It appeared, be said, thai depositions which
had been transmitted by the petitioner had not
been received as evidence. These depositioDS
proved that the Sheriff had omitted to notify the
time of election to the two towns of Hancock and
Kingston, which contained fifty votes. This evi-
dence being ex parte, and not admissible, the
committee, finding that at a former election fif-
teen votes onlf came from these two places, and
the sitting member having a majority Of twenty-
one votes in his favor, determined to set aside the
petition, and declare Mr. Smith entitled to his
seal. But he was of opinion that the committee
bad not sufficiently gone into the merits of the
case. He said there appeared to have been an
enmity between Mr. LrON and the Sheriff which
bad led him to neglect the notification of the elec-
tion to the two tovviis above mentioned, in
order to secure a return to his friend ; and that
this -being the case, further evidence ought to be
had, and the business fairly investigated.
Mr. IsBABt Bmitb supposed it would be expect-
ed he should say something on a subject in w^ich
he was so materially concerned. He thought the
committee had done all they could in the busi-
ness ; and if Mr. Ltoh did not think proper, or
had it not in his power to come forward with evi-
dence which could be received, he did not think
it the business of that House to bunt after it. In-
deed, the petitioner had expressed his desire that
the House should determine the case npion the
evidence which he had given in. If all the cir-
cumstances of the case were before the House, no
hesitation would be made to declare in his favor.
The towns in question, he observed, were of little
consequence ; that they were unorganized places,
and, therefore, excluded fay the election laws of
Vermont. He detailed, at considerable length,
circumstances relative to the nature of carrying
on elections in Vermont, and assured the Honse
that he did not believe the petitioner had any ex-
pectations of gaining a seat in the House at pre-
sent, but that he took these measures only to in-
fluence the people in his favor at the next elec-
tion, for which purpose he had industriously cir-
culated copies of hismemorial. Mr. Smith spoke
at considerable length, and, in the course of his
speech, touched upon tbe Bature of personal and
politicat rights. He concluded with hoping the
House would not admit of any Airther delay in
the business, but come to k decision.
Mr. Bock was opposed to a recommitment. It
was not the business of the House to search after
evidence. It does not appear that there were
votes sufficient in the towns of Hancock and
Kingston to hare tvrned the scale of the election,
had they all voted in favor of the petitioner. And
who. said lie, can pretend to say how these men
vrould hare voted 7 Tbey themielTea cannot tell
lyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
PUMI.
r,1796.]
Omteated EUetion.
[H. OPR-
how they ra^t have been induced to hare voted
iheD; BDd, tnerefow, do testiiaony cud be obuia-
ed op IbU subject. Shall the Action, ifaea. be
considered Toid, because theie has been a defect
in ill It appears by the law of Vermont that of-
ficers are to give notice to the people to meet to
rote for mpmbers. In giving this notice it ap-
Srs that two towns were omitted. The law
s not f»Y how the noticeii shall be distributed,
h ihia case the Sheriff distributed them. All the
towns which had notice met and voted, and Mr.
Smith was duly elected. Has Mr. Lyon any bet-
ter riebi to say the people who did not attend
would have voted for him than Mr. Smith 1 But
though the writs did not teach these towns, they
might have given their votes. But, the truth ia,
these persons do not complain, they are satisfied
with the election. It is Mr. Lyon only who com-
ptains ; nod, not having brought forward sufficient
(vidence, he saw no rcLiann ibr goirjfurlhor into
ihe business. '
Mr. W. Smith took a view of the ciroum-
siances at len^h which had influenced the eom-
■nittee in their determination. He denied that
ibe iohabitants of Hancock and Kingston knew
Je time of the second election : the lime of the
Brat was appointed by law, but of the period df
lae second tney were ieoorant. owing to the ne-
glect of the Sberiff. Yet this, it was said, ought
not to set aside the election. If this doctrine be
■dtnitted, said he, officers may omit giving notice
to any towa ibey please with impunity. He
wuld not agree to the propriety of this principle,
which cuts up by ibe roots the rigbt of election.
Mr. S. gave some account of the manner in which
dections were managed in the quarter from
•hich he came ; and then insisted that if two
loWBs might be omitted to exercise the right of
election, four, six, or any other number might also
be overlooked. If. he added, the fact were as the
temmittee conceived it, that there were not so
many votes in the two totvns omitted to be noti-
fied, as might have given a majority in favor of
Mr. LvoK, then he should vrilliDgly agree to their
report; but the fact appearing doubtful, he wished
it to be recommitted, in order to ascertain the
■umber of freemen in these two towns.
Mr. SwAHWiOK observed, that, if notification
*as essential to the legality of the election, no
■amber of electors in the two towns would ioflu-
nce the election. It had been stated, he observ'
td, by the member from Vermont, that there was
1 great extent of towns, and that it would be al-
most impossible Ibat all of them should receive
^e notice. Two towns are aaid not to have voted.
We are told these towns should have voted so and
>o; but no one can ascertain this. In a former
flection they threw in fifteen votes; in the pre-
sent, it is Htid, they wonltf have come forward
vith fifty. This is no evidence of what would
Mve been the case — it is more fair to suppose
there would have been no more than fifteen. The
dinger of Sheriffs being suffered to negli
iBg proper notice to elector^ from improper mo-
uses, haa been mentionad. He saw nothing
(laiming in it. For what purpose, aaid he, ■tnil
we recommit this matter? It is said we may
hunt up facts. Mr. Lyob called upon us to do
justice i he ought to have substantiated bis evi*
dence. Why twis be not done this? But. because
.he has not done it, shall we do it for him ? Sbail
we, instead of having our Bergeant-ai-Arms at-
tending upon us here, despatch him to all parts of
the Union 1 To effect this new business a balloon
would be necessary to convey the messenger. He
hoped the time of the House would be employed
more profitably for the public than to pursue this
affair. The burden of proof ought certainly
to lie upon those who dispute the election. The
peUtioner expected it; but we say, No, we will
nave evidence. He thought this was wrong. We
are judges in this matter, and not parties.
Mr. Nathaniel Smitb wondered the sitting
member should oppose the recommittal of this
subject. He is in possession. of his seat, and not
reinaimug here upon expense. He saw no mis-
chief which could result from delay. It has been
said the petitioner can expect no more than a laii
hearing. But all his testimony has been excluded.
Shall we ihen refuse to give him a further oppor-
tunity of producing testimony that will be receiv-
ed? It is said the testimony be brings is imma-
terial. But lei it be brought before the House,
and then the House will be able to decide upon
it. He thought the number of votes in the two
towns not notified material. The amission of a
single town is important when the stale of an
election is pretty evenly contested. If there be
near fifty votes in these towns, they might have
turned the scale of the election. It has been said
we should be volunteers in this busines|i; he
thought not. The petitioner's testimony is ex-
cluded, unknown tohiia,and he should have time
to produce other evidence. A contrary conduct
would be unfair.
Mr. William Lyuah was against a recommit-
ment of this report. Mr. Smith, he said, was en-
tilled to hold his seat until proof was brought to
supplant him. Mr. Lyon states that the rignts of
the electors of Vermont are violated ; but his pe-
tition it accompanied with evidence which is not
admissible, ana yet he has desired the House to
determine decidedly upon it. This, it has been
hinted, is not intended to set aside Mr. Smith'8
seat, but for another purpose. Shall the House,
then, solicit Mr. Lyon to come forward? No. It
was his opinion Mr. Lton had abandoned the
matter. With respect to the two towns not having
received notice of the election, no one could say
where the omission lay, The inhabitants of those
towns, it was possible, might have voted, though
they had no notice.
Mr. GiLBiRT was in favor of the recommittal,
that all the &cts relative to the subject might
be brought forward. It had been said that it was ex-
traordinary that they should volunteer themselves
to send for evidence into all parts of the Conti-
nent ; he did not think this was likely to happen.
He thought that the petitioner had not had an op-
portunity of coming forward with the necessary
evidence,and whilst this was procuring, the sitting
member 'ffould so^r no injury.
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.opp.]
Contetted BleOion.
Mr. Maoisou observed, that it seemed to be
sapposed thsi they miHt either deeide for the pe-
litioner or agaiost nim. But the Movue might de-
lermine the busiDess ill this way, viz : That the
evideoee before it was Dot sufficient, and give fur-
ther time for fresh testimday to be brought ill, if
the petitioner chose to proceed in his complaint.
tn acting thus, Mys he, we shall leave a door open
to the petitioner without volnoteering ourselves to
gain evidence. If the report was recommitted
this might bt dune.
Mr. Giles was surprised to hear the opposite
opinions which were neid on this subject. If he
understood the matter, an election had been held,
and that two towns, ont of a great number, had
not been notified ; «II the rest voted. He was not
tuprised that two were omitted to be notified, but
that more were not omitted. If all the eleeiions
which had been had for the members of that
House were examined, it would be found that few
of them were so perfect. He was certain thai his
own was not. It appeared from some members
that the^ were making great inroads into the right
of election by a practice of this sort, because ii
was impossible the per3<ms who did not vote,
might have voted for the petitioner. He was of
opinion Mr. Smith was entitled to his seat. Gen-
tlemen speak of the rights of election bein? in-
jured ; but, as it has already been observed, iliese
people do not complain. He thought it extraor-
ainary thai the House should wish to hunt after
objections to Mt. Smith's claim to his seat. This
was straining the basineas of election too far, for
they could not be always perfectly regular.
Mr. FiKDLEY observed, that every State had its
own rales for mana^ng elections. The notice
Siven of elections was never general. It was dif-
eult to make it so. The Sheriff advertises, but
many persons neversee a newspaper. ThisHonse,
he said, should always be open to complaints, but
never invite them. As the petitioner has not
chosen to come forward with his evidence in a
proper way he should not wish to lake any further
notice of his petition.
Mr. CoiT understood that the petitioner had
commissiooed a member of that House to inform
him of the prqgress of this business.
Mr. VENAfiLE «iid[ he had a letter fVom Mr.
Ltom rM)uesling him, if the sitting member
changed bis ground, to give bim notice thereof.
The sitting member had said that the two towns
omitted to be noliSed wvre nor organized ; the
committee, therefore, wrote to the Treasury to
know whether these towns were organized. The
Ttwwury gave for answer that they were not re-
presented in the State. It has been said that leave
nas been allowed in other cases to take evidence
in i»y part of the conntry most convenient to the
petitioner ; but then the petitioner has come for-
ward in person to make his averments. He thought
the committee were justified in making the report
they had done.
Mr. W. Smith again complained that the peti-
tioner had not been informed that his evidence
woald not be received, and went over nearly the
suae ground of argument which he had before
uiged against receiving the report of the com-
mittee.
Mr. Gallatin was against the recommitment,
not that he was perfectly satisfied with the report
of the committee. Two reasons were given why
a recommitment should take place ; the first was
because two towns were not notified ; the second,
because the kind of testimony given by the peti-
tioner is insufficient. He was of opinion that noti-
fication was not essential, and that it was not ne-
Hancock and Kingston, he said, were not deprived
of their right of voting by notification not being
Efiven. The law of Vermont fixed the day of elec-
tion, and therefore notification was a mere matter
of form. When the Sheriff neglects to give due
notice, be mi^t be prosecuted, it was true, for a
breach of his duty ; but this was never done.
Elections, he said, were never wholly regular. In
the last election for President and Vice Pbebi-
DENT <if the United Slates, several places did nol
give their votes. They were not, he said, to
send after petitioners to that House to remind
them ot what they ought to do ; but those peti-
tioners should attend upon their own business.
The Houne can only decide upon the evidence be-
fore it. But if gentlemen thought more informa-
tion on the subject necessary, the proper way was
to postpone and not recommit the report.
Mr. G. having sat down, and it being near four
o'clock, a call from difi'erent carls of the House
was made for adjournment; Tne House therefore
adioumed without coming to a resolution on the
Frid
', Febraary 18.
A message was received from the Senate, im-
porting that the Senate had read three times and
Kssed, with some amendmenL the act for estab-
hing trading Jiouses with the Indian tribes;
which was read.
Bills were brought in by the Committee of Com-
merce and Man utac tunes, read a first and second
lime, and ordered to be committed lo a Commit-
tee of [he Whole on Monday, for providing relief
to nlerchanls whose registers of ships were be-
come invalid for want oi compLyiog with certain
requiyilioDs of the law ; for granting a return of
overpaid duties to Jose Ros Silvaj and to Israel
Loriog, to recover the drawback duties on certain
indiffo.
The commiitee lo whom the petition of Nicho-
las Roosevelt, and others, was referred, reported
in its lavor, and it was reada first and second time,
and commirted lo a Commiitee of the Whole foi
Tuesday.
GOHTBeTED ELECTION.
The order of the day on recommitting the re
port of the committee on the election of IanAEi
Smith, was taken np.
Mr, NicHDLAB said, there was no ^ound foi
committing the report, for the committee could
not report in any other way than they had dooi
.dbyGoot^le
HISTOBY OF CONGRESS.
3i2fl
FsMOASV, 1796.]
CimluUd EUctioH.
[H.0
He did not think tbe electiaa lud been, attogether
p(op«rl]r conducted ; but skid ihe House muat not
refine too much upon tbe busiaess. Tbe Imw of
Vermont, lie obseived, showed that if tbe two
towns in question contained more than twenty-
one votes, thai would not »et aside the election.
The time of the second election was eipressly ap-
pointed in the law as well as the first, and these
TDiers certainly knew when it took place. A de-
fect in focm, tnerefore, ought not to afiect tbe te-
rality of the eiaciion ; if it were, the principle of
(he election would be confounoed. It was not
wriain but these voters miffht have attended at
some other place, ac no list of tbe votes was taken.
The committee has sat two monilis on the busi-
nras, and no evidence is brought forward that can
be received ; t^ey knew of no public source from
whence lo learn ev^ the number of the inhxbi-
Unt! in the two towns alluded to, and could gain
DO iaformntiou without going to seek for it. Ii
Wat improper for the committee to open a corres-
Cdeoce withMr.LvoN. Tobave doaeso, would
e tamished the konoi of thai House. It baa
been said commissions to receive evidence have
been nven in former cues; but these
sioDs nad been ai^lied for in person,
lurked there was no application from the people
themselves who are said not to have voted, but
from the man who wishes to have a seat here.
He thought the committee had determined pro-
perly ; for it was not certain that it Mr. Lvon
•as sent after be would trouble binuelf farther
lie nutter.
Mr. TiiAor obaerved, due attention ought lo be
■id to the farming of preoedenU. In all elective
Govern menta, the importtncH of keeping them
clew of corruption was one of the first coosidera-
uous. Doe attention, be mid, was due to the prac-
tice of different States. lie felt a delicacy with
retp'ci to the sitting member, for whom he had a
high respect; but the principle of theqoestion be-
fore them was every thing. LYO)(,h« said, wrote
to the committee, desiring if any farther ^orma-
lion was WBuling, that h« might be informed. No
ioforaiatioi) had been given hjm. It had been
aid he had abandtwed the boeinessi thLi did not
look like it He waa iafluenead, he said, in advo-
eating Mr. Lyon's eauie by no other motive than
a wish to defeitd lite rights of election. He might
Qoicomeforward,ithadhfraMid, if he were ap-
plied to. True ; hut he shoold have an opportu-
nity of doing so if he choM. If the two towns
omitted lobe aotified contain more than twenty-one
voles, and it be troe that this circnuutanne ought
iHi to influence tlie elentioa, then there is no pr&-
ptitty in committing the report. Ha allowed that
in the Vermont law, made specially for this elec-
tion, the time was fijted. but he insisted that it
was essential that the £xecutive power should
;ive the necessary information.
It hat been arg«d that none of the neglected
voters have come forward ; but they have seat
cettificBte*, which Is a coaclnsive proof that they
vere DotMiisfied. Indeed the law was not obeyed
ia a very eMential part, for it ia inrcly CMential
that every oarpontuon have nutioe of an election.
To illustrate llie bad effects of corruption in re-
tumiiig officers, he referred to Qreat Britaio, who
owed many of the mischiefs in her system to this
source. Mr. T. dwelt a considerable time upon
the nature and practice of elections in general,
and applied them to the case of this contest He
said it certainly could be proved how many free-
men there were in tbe two towns ; and this being
done it ought to sat aside the eleotion. It had
been suggested that these men. might have voted
in other places; but this was not reasonable lo
suppose, and if it had bean done, the pnotice
would have been contrary to law.
Mr. T. next adverted to what had faUen from
Mr; S.wAMWicE on this snbject, and woiulered that
that gentlBisan,whose own election wa^ contested^
sbould come forward with such zeal in behalf tit
the »■
r the purpose of hunting eri-
Mr. W. Smith and Mr. SwaNwica roae toge-
ther ; but the latter giving way, Mr. Shitb pro-
r:eeded to es]^n some parta of tlie eleelion law of
Vermont^ which he alte^^ had been misstated,
from which he read several clauses, and averted
the towns of Hancock and Kingston wen taeor-
potnted and entitled to vote. He insisted upon the
propriety of holding another election; and touched
upon ' most of the grounds which had bem gone
over by Mr. Tbacv and by himself yesterday. He
spoke at length, and asserted that no part of tbe
peofrfe shonld be deprived of their right of voting.
Mr. Swu<wioK.-^On thi«suEyect,Mr.SFiULKBH,
I had not intended to have spoken again : My own
mind, and that of the other gantlemen <^ this
House, seems so fully made up upon it, that I
shonld not have again ventured to intrude on their
time; but I owe jo on hoaorable member from
Connecticut to make him mv aeknowledgmeats
for his remark on the leal I have expcesMd al-
ready on two contested elections in this House;
that zeal it was, sir, that first impelled me to quit
a situation nt least a« eligiUeas that of any other
member on thia floor, to encounter all the abuse
anJ vexation' oeceaaarily incident on public life;
that same zeal the gratleman shall nlways witr
ness on niy part on every oocaaioo wherein the
iniAresi.1 of my country are hi queation. But the
gentleman thinks I aowild have repreaied-it, be-
cause 1 had my wlf a contested eleotioa at stake.
Sir, thiswould have been fnrnishiDg the finest tri-
umph poraible to my adversaries, because it wonld
have been stlenciug me on these great puUicqae»-
tions, and thereby readeriDg myself unworthy of
tbe honor I have received of rapresenting one id*
the Srst cities in the Union on this fioor. No, air,
nothing shall prevent me, while 1 have a seat here,
to deliver on any, or on all questions, where it
may be my duty to do so, my sentiments in this
House. Neither of these contested elections have
besides any analogy to that in which I am en-
gaged. In the case of Mi. RioBaaos, whnt was
the objection 1 why, a motion was made to keep
him a day looser out of bia seat in older that op-
portunity might be ^veq £at oew matter to cone
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Conte»Ud Election.
[PSBBUART, 1796.
■iiice7 r
of this Slate wotdd have been improperly delayed
ID lakiDgr ^^^ place, aod this it waa my duty to
prevenl. I llave indeed b^n Ci^d^that those who
wish to vacate my election, think on that occa-
gioQ some farorKble principles to them were es-
tablished ; if 10, 1 hare the merit at least of im-
partiality ia getting them brought forward ; but
what has Mr. Smith of Vermont's election to do
with mine t there il is alleged two small towns
did not receive notice of the election ; but is it
pretended that Dock ward, or Walnut vrard. or
any other ward of this city, were not notiSed of
the election in m^ easel then, where is the analo-
gy ? St> much, sir, for what respects me. I now
proceed to the merit of this particular case.
Hereia a petition from Mr. Lyon, complaining
of the undue election of Mr. Smitb, the sitting
member. It has been referred to the Committee
of Elections, but your committee hare found it
nneupported by any bat ex jualt evidence, not
deemed by them to be competent. Well, what
are we to do ; ar« we to look after new evidence ;
are we to send our Sergeant «t- Arms into Ver-
mont to solicit testimony to turn out, as it has
been called, out own member? At this rate, I
have stated he ought to hare a balloon to tran-
sport his car ; for nothing short of this c6uld do
it with sufficient celerity; a few disputed elections
over the Continent, migat employ, at this rate, alt
the time of Congress, of its committees, and i
officers, in seeking and collecting evidence as
the seats of its own members, to the great wai
of the public time and public money. Sir, when
a petitioner comes here to complain <tf an undue
election, be ought to come with the proof
handj not taken ex parte, or the petition should be
(Usmissad ; because the door is never ahnt
applications, when the parties injured come pro-
Krly prepared to substantiate their claims: much
s been said of the rights of the election, and
certainty, sir, no right) cmn be more sacred,
ought to be more respected ; but there is alsi
rigbt in the party elected ; he ought notj on frivo-
' lous or idle pretences, or without sufficient proof,
to be exposed to such law expenses in defending
hi> sQBt, as his circumstances may disable him
trom ditcbarging; for, at this rate, the competi-
tion for such seats must soon be confined to the
(^utent only, much to the prejudice of the equat
sj'slem of our Oovemment.
On the whole, I am against the
of the repor^ and in favor of detlaring Mr.
Smtth duly entitled to his seat, because 1 see no
proof to the contrary. I am always ready, how-
ever, to attend to any remonstrance that may af-
terwards come forward from the towns of Han-
cock ot Kingston, or from Mr. L?ok, when these
shall be supported bf substantial evidence taken
after giving due and timely notice to the sitting
member.
Mr. Buck said a few words, principally to cor-
rect a statement which he had made respecting
the election law of Vermont.
Ht. HiLbHonsB said the petitioner never had
bad it in his power to nke the necessary evi-
dence; as there were no regulations in teing at
present for that purpose. He observed, there was
a law wanted to regulate this subject. He
might have appeared in person, il is tme ; but
this would have been very expensive, as ht might
have been kepi in Philadelphia all the Winter.
Some way ought to be adopted for taking evi-
dence ; but he had no thought of despatching the
Sergeant~at-Anns for the purpose of hunting it
up. The principle was important, and ought to
be established. The principle and facts were two
things, which be wished'to be seMrated, so that
the House' might give an unoiaaed decision
whether official notice was necessary to the legal-
ity of elections, or not.
Mr. GALLATtN agreed that it was essential to
establish principles and to secure the rights of
electors. They should decide, be said, tipon
irhat was important or useful, and what was es-
lential. With respect to two towns not being
notified, their votes would have been taken,
thotigh they had not official notice; therefore,
notification is not essential; but it is said, the
Qovemor of Vermont should have given notice,
not only of the second election, but of the state
of the poU at the first. This information would
have been useful, but not essential : notice of the
»n was essential, but not the Oovemor's no-
There was sufficient ground to believe the
day of election was known at these two towns, as
a month had elapsed from the time of casting up
the votes of the first election, and the holding of
the second. There is no proof, even ex parte, to
show this was not known. Tne consequence of
this doctrine was, he said, that an officer could do
no material harm j bnt, if a contrary position was
taken, an officer might tire out the people by fre-
quent elections, omitting coniinuaUv to notify
some place or other. By adopting toe report of
the committee, he thought, they should best se-
cure the rights of election.
Mr. Sbdowiok was persuaded, that if ever the
time arrived wheo, instead of adiieriug to princi-
ples it; contested elections, the House favored a
sitting member at the expense of principle, the
case would be alarming. He bad attended to
the arguments adduced on both.eides of the ques-
tion, and endeavored to profit by them. He
thought them, however, more diffuse than truth
required. It was said that the petitioner ought
to be dismissed, because there was no evidence ;
bnt he saidj there was no mode in which be could
produce this evidence. If the petition vras vexa-
tious, it ought to be dismissed, hut if the rights of
election be intimately connected with it, the
means ou^ht to be provided for discussing the
questiouj m order to prevent the operation of cor-
ruption in future. Hetbought if the arguments
were compressed, they could not be mistaken;
and for that purpose he took a short view of the
whole subject, and conelnded by saying that the
two towns in (question were called insignificant.
He said they might go from towns to men. and
say that such lind such men be _
their ri^ta vrcre not worth attending t
.dbyGoogle
325
fflSTOHY OP CONGRESS.
FuKDUT, 1796.] '
ConieMid Eiaetion.
«u a doctrine he coold Dot eoDsenl lo. He-
ipoieof frequent electicnis, which he diupproved,
u teodifie to create political controversies amoD|pt
ihe pcoplr.
Mr. PiMDUT »nd Hr. Gilbert each said a few
words Ml the same sTOundas yesterday; and anad-
joaminent being eafled for, Mr. HiLLHonai wished
ibeHouaebeforeit adjourned to takenplheiaqui'
ry respeeling the Treaty with the Indians ; bat sev-
nml members seeming to wish bd adjournment,
the sense of the House Was taken, and decidea
igainst the adjoumment. The inquiry was then
read by the Speae£B, as foltowt, to wit:
" Cut thi* Honoe procaed to legislate npon the Trea-
B bj Ofloei ■ "'
ftherirerl
tiso DOW befitre die Honsa !"
But Mr. Dearborn proposing a resolution in-
stead of it. caused considerable debate; but the
Honse at length agreed to the resolution to this
eSect:
" BetoUed, That the PitBaiDBirr of thb Umited
States be requested to cause to be laid before
this House the Treaty mentioned in his commu-
nieationa to the Senate and House of Kepreseota'
tiTcs, at the commencemeal of the session, to
have beea concluded with certain Indian nalions
Northwest of the Ohio."
This resolulioit ms agreed to, and a commit-
lee of two a^KiiDted to carry it into effect.
MoifDAT, February 16.
The committee appointed to wait upon the
PRESiDKirr to request a copy of the Treaty, ^id
lo hare been concluded with the Indians, reported
that he would order it to be laid before the
Hoose.
A biU for authorizing the Fbebideht or
UwiTED Btateb to borrow money for completiiur
' " ' • — .sen
a the Federal City, t
the boildittgs erecting ii
any part of the same, &c., was read a first and
secotid time, ordered to be printed, and conunit-
led to a Committee of the Whole on Wednesday.
It tnm moved that the Journals of the Honse
be amended, by slrikiog out the question submit-
ted to the House, by the committee to whom it
waa referred, to bring in a bill respecting Indian
aiSaira, "Whether the House can proceed to W-
late OB the Tieaty said to be concluded by Qt
eral WayiK with the Indiani Nwdiwest of the
Ohio?** This motion was objected to, on the
ptMiiMi of no incaov«nience arising from its re-
■fqiwiiig upon the Jonilials ; for as it was poet-
pmcdfor ihe sake of getting rid of it, no mem-
ber will erar think of calling it up ; if he did, the
House wilt certainly not consent to it.
Hr. Mdkrav called up a resolution laid open
the table some days ago, to this effeet, " That a
eommitlee be appointed to consider whether any
and iriHt alteration is necessary in the compen-
mtiun of the cfficers of the Oorerament of the
Vniled States," which, being pnt to the vote
rbtiher or oot it abonld pass, was negalired ; be-
iur tliiriT-««^ ^' **> ""^ forty-two againsi it.
It waa moreA, thM the ameiidmnts made by
owortui
cboee to
the Senate to a bill for e«tablishing trading houses
with the Indian tribes, be taken upj which being
done, was ordered to be committed to a select
committee of three.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
The order of the day beina called for upon the
eport of the eommittee on ihe petition of Mat-
thew Ltok, against Israel Smitu'b election-
Mr. Giles said he had made a few remarks on
this subject already, in which he gave his- opinion
against recommittm^ (he report; bat many ffoa-
tlemeD, for whose opinions he had the highest re-
speet, having thought differently, and wishing
that the subject might be ao discusaed that a
pretty unanimous determination might be had
upon it, he had now no objection to a reeommil-
Hr. Nicholas thought the committee had re-
ported rightly; but in order to give Mr Lton
^unity to come iorward with evidenee, if he
to do ao, he should move that the further
[deration of the subject be postponed till the
15th of March.
Hr. WiLLiAHB said, if a peatpoaetnent took
place, sufficient reaton should be assi^ed for it.
It was said it was to give the petitioner time;
but, he observed, it did not appear clear, that if
Mr. Lyon proved that there were forty or fifty
voters in the two towns omitted to Im notified,
that il would vitiate the election; and if not, it
would be only a waste of time and expense to
the petitioner, to put ofi' the decision.
Mr. HiLLBODBE was also for a postponemeat.
It was only josl, be said, thai a day should be ap-
pointed on which to bear the petitioner. A dis-
taat day; instead of the 15tb, he would recont-
mend the 29th of March, when, whether the peti-
tioner chose to appear or not, the maUer might
be determined. At present, he said, the House
only heard one side; fhrther information waa
-wanted. He wished the questioiu of law and
fact might both be settled. For this purpose, he-
hoped 3m postponemeat would be adopted ; and
if no one bcmi^l forward a motion for ascertain-
ing a proper method of taking evidence in die
case, he would himself bring in a motion for that
A letter from Mr. Lyon to Ihe Spbaebh was
called for and read, when ,
Mr. RuTBKBFORn ezpreased himself pleased
with the candor of the tetter. He said he had
not yet troubled the House upon this matter.
It was a vary nice aubiect Refiresenlatian (said
he) is the right eye of the people. It appeared
that the electors were very nearly balanced in
their opinions of Mr. Lyok and Hr. Smith. He
thought the House had done iheit duty in the
matter, and that they had had enough of it. It
was an old adage, he said, '' That too mnch of a
thing was good for nothing." He hoped Hr.
would be allowed to possess his seat.
Ml
Hbatb thought a great deal had been said
.jily on this occasion. He said much
had been urged about the purity of elections. He
waa a friend to Ae purity of eleetioiis. Let
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Land Ofice Jforttowrt of the OAtb.
[FUBUtBV, 179&
Mr. LvoN &bow himKlf entitled ; we ougbt not
to Mek for hie evideace. His ptnyer was not
supported i and why (»aid he) do geotkniea ma-
ttcBuyre for three oi tour days in this tHisiiieM 7
Me detested all exofficiu hunters of prosecuiions.
The' House was filUy possessed of the merits of
the oaie. -He did aoi entirely agree with the
form of the report of the comoiittee; but hoped
the quesiioD would neither be re-committed nor
postptmed.
Mr, BoDRHE wns against the pCetponement,
and in favor of a lecommitmeDt, that the mat-
ter might be fully developed.
Mi. Venablb [one of the committee] said, the
committee woulo again goinib the business if the
House desired it, but tliat they could da no more
without further evidence. He was also against a
postponement. At the commencemenl of Ibe
session, the House gare the commillee power to
take evidence inan^ vny they pleased ; this gave
Mr. Lyon aa much infotmatiou as aiesolution to-
day would give him. If the House agreed to a
postponement, he hoped it would ^ve special in-
structions for further proceeding in the afiaii.
Mr. Deahbohm said there were difiereot opin-
ions OD this sut^ect ; to him there appeared osly
one jn'oper way of proceeding. When a person
petitions against the seat of a, member, if there be
no agreement to the contrary, he ought to come
forward in person. Without this, the House cau-
ikot, with propriety, go into the subjeot. Two
or three; months were passed, and nothiag was
done by the petitioner. It is said there is a. possi-
bility of there beiag more evidence. Thia is
nothing to the House. He wiebed the matter
neither to be committed nor poetponed.
Hr. Js4A0 Smith wished to -watch over the pu-
rity of eiectiona, and always to aim at perfection
i« their Government. No election was ever ait»-
gether regular. He did not think the Sheriff was
partial to Mr. Smjtu:, or that there was any aor-
Toptioa in the ease. Out of the electors w^o
were said not lo l«ve voted, twelve were in fhvoi
of Mr. S. at a former eleelton. ■ The people had
already been ealled together twice to make choice
of a member ; he hoped they would not have to
iMMt a thiid time. He was for adopting the re-
Mr. NicHOua explained hli view in inaking
his motion for postponement; he did not thinit it
necceaary to issue a commission for taking evi-
deuae; it was enough to postpone tike subject to
give Mr. Lvov an oppoitimity ofcmiing for-
ward if he choM lo do so.
Mr. P«oB said there was a matorial difference
between recommitting and lakme; time to recon-
sider the subject. It was Bqi their husinesa to
tell the petitioner how to come forward ; hut to
give him lime. A postponeiaeDt would give hmi
this tioM.
Mr. KiTTSRA observed, the House could not
make rjtles respecting a subject of ibis kind, un-
til a controversy took place. He mentiooul sev-
eral diffioulliet which arose in legislating on this
subject! but thought they miffhi ma^e regula-
tioD* on a mativ <d thia aort, withoul tbe gohnu-
rence of the other two branches of the Legisla-
ture. This being the case,. how will tbe posi-
paoemeat operate 7 Will it have the effect lo
bring forward evidence? No. Eules for taking
evidence must first be fixed, ami a recommitment
would have this efiect. .
The question being called for, t)ie House di-
vided: for the postponement till ihe29th of March,
Ibiity-six ; agaimt it, hfiy-two.
Mr. GiLBEBT said he had voted against the
postponeiaent j but as evidence bad been offered
and not admitted, he wished the report to be re-
committed, that the petitioner might ba.ve an op-
portunity of properly substaniiating li.
Mr. CooFBB tliought it absolutely necessary,
that every town in a district should have notice
of an election, and that it wsAof consequence to
establish this principle ; for what was the prac-
tice to day, would be a precedent to-morrow.
The motion for a recommitmeut being put, it
was negatived — 47 beiag for it, and 49 against it.
This motion bcine lost, Mr. Gilbert moved
that the sense of the House should be agaio'takcn
oh the postponement, as many members, be was
Ersuaded, voted against the motion when put
fore, from the expectation of the report being
recomimilled. The question was, therefore, put
and carried — being for it 49, against it 44.
TREATY WITH INDIANS.
A communication was received from the De-
partment of State, with a copy of tbe Treaty con-
cluded with certain Indians on the Northwest of
the Ohio ; which, being moved to he referred to'
the eommiuee appointed to bring in a bill re-
spectitlK Indian affairs,
Mr. G4.i,L*TiNsaid,lie thought it unnecessary to
refer the Treaty to the committee. It was eooiuth
for them lo know that is was on the table. He
wished it to be commitled to a Committee of the
Whole, as it was necessary aj^ropriatioos should
be made for carrying it into effect. He moved,
therefore, ibat the Treaty, and pttper^ accompauv-
ing it, be comnkitted t6 a Committee of the Whole
to-morrow. Agreed lo. ,
LAND OmCE NORTHWESrr OF THE OHIO.
Mr. HAitPSB called for the order of the day on
a bill for opening a L^nd Office, for the saie of
landai u the Territory Northwest of the Ohio. The
House aecordingiy formed it^f into a Commit-
tee of the Whde, Mr. Muhlbmbbro in the Chaii.
Mr. Vam Au.bn expressed his opinion that the
House might have greatly simplified the bOEinees,
by having the lands properly surveyed and pet-
BOBS employed to sell them. The expens
irrying the prese.Ot bill into effect would be
reat. He thought it best that the knds should
sold at public vendue. He moved that the
at section oe struck out.
Mi. RuTBEBroHB said, there never was a bill
of greater importance than that before the House.
He said that House were the fathers of the coun-
try, and that they ware about to set out new farnu
to their sons, by doing which he hoped they
should desttoy that hydia, speealatiou, which had
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HISTORT OF CaNGR£S&
PimDAKT, 1706.]
Land Office Natthfwett ef ffte Ohio.
looe the countTV great harm. Let m, said he,
liapow of this land to origiaal selllers, 150,000
liiaities are waiting to become occupiers of this
hud. (a. piember called oul for bis authority,
when he nid there were more than that number,)
The bill beftire the Hooae, he said, was excepiion-
ible. It wotild not, he said, defeat the specula-
ton. Tjie monsters in Europe, added he, are
nadjr to join the monsters here, to swallow up
ihe conntrr. He said thii tract olcountry Ehould
be disposed of to real settlera. Industrious, respect-
iMe perwHu. who are ready to pay a reasonable
price for it, and not sold to ^rsoas who have no
other view than engrossing riches. He bad made
out a roagh plan, he said, of wbal struck him as
proper regulations. He was proceeding [o read
ihe whole of them, when the Chairman remind-
ed him that the first section only of the bill was
noder consideration. He said he was against the
whole hill, and might as well then express his sen-
timents upon it. He said he was a mere child of
oainre, an inhabitant of the frontier, as untaught
IS an Indian; but he bad some faint giimmeiinzs
of reason, and be was coafideot his plan would
answer the desired purpose. Afler explaining and
dwelling acme time on the merits of it, he con-
eluded with saying, he loved his country and all
faoneal men, but bated speculators, and hoped the
present bill would not pass.
Mr. FixDLBY said, it was a difficult matter to
lesislate well on a subject of such ezteni as this
bill comprehended. He enumerated sererat de-
fects in (be biU before the House. The duty of
superintendeiits, be said, was not sufficiently ex-
plained : there WM no responsibility in the sur-
veyor ; no salary appointed. By these omissions,
a part of Legislative duty is transferred to agents.
It becomes the Legislatuie, said he, to improve
the advantages of nature; this bill does not do
this- He spoke of the necessity of properly divid-
ing bottoms, water, Stn., into the different divis-
ions. He said the size of the tracts was too lai^e.
It will be Mid they may be divided between a
Bamber of farmera, who misht agree to purchase
in company. He showed the iDconvenieDces at-
tending a practice of this sort, and said it was in-
viting people into a snare, which would cast dis-
bonoT upon Qovetnment. He thought the im-
perfections of this bill ooutd only be remedied by
a new bill. He wished a plan to be adopted that
khauJd divide bottoms, and have more precision
in the surveys. Many confusions, he said, had
arisen in all new seitlemeDls, which might have
been prevented with care. He said a surveyor had
i^reat power, and ^.m^x to be responsible. He
luoehed upon the different kinds of surveying,
aed said, magnetieal surveys were not always to
be depended upon. Delay is objected to, but it is
better, said he, to delay the busioess for a time,
than pau a bad bill.
Mr. D&VTON (the Speaker) observed, that the
objeciioDa which had fallen from the member just
sat down, were of importance, but that this wax
not ibe proper time to consider them. He wished
to be ii>K>niieil by the member who proposed to
strike out the first aeetiaa of the bill, whether
4th Cop.— 18
he meant to substitute another seciion in it*
Mr. Van Allen said, he meant to propose a
new clause, and objected Co Che bill generally.
He thought the Treasury and State Departments
might undertake the business. He objected to
the present survey. He said he thought of divid-
in^ the land into parcels of six miles square, which
aught again be subdivided ; that exact surveys of
the land should be taken, upon which should be
marked the qualities oi the Isjtd, the rivers, spring!,
&.Z., with great precision j that these should oe
published. If this was not done, be said^ pur-
chasers in general would not know any thing of
what they purchase^ and the coualty would be
involved in law suits. He was of opinion the
present bill would prove a very expensive one ;
objected lo the terms of payment, and the mode
of selling the land, and thought Ihe evils of it could
only be remedied by a new bill.
Mi. Coopbb Yras nearly of opinion with tbe
last speaker. He said be al<a had prepared the
sketch of a bill.
Mr. NioBOLAS acknowledged, though he was
one of the committee, that be was very imperfect-
ly acquainted with the subject. He wished to
hear gentlemen make specific propositions, and
not to hear of itew bills. Many objections miglu
be urged aminst anv bill which might be pro-
posed. He noped full liberty would be given to
members to express their sentiments, wbicD might
be proposed as clauses to be added to the bill, and
that they might not be confined iu their discus-
sions to any particular section. One great object
of the committee was to get the highest price for
the land, and for this purpose they thought it ne-
cessary lo make the titles sure. It has been said
that the laud should be laid out according to wa-
ter, &c. ; he thought this impossible to he dtme,
so as lo make titles certain. He trusted many of
tbe objections stated mJEht b« remedied without
a new bill. He thought the offices alluded to
could not do the business, though he- thought there
were offices under Qovernment that mignt do it ;
and hoped every member would speak his senti-
ments fully upon the subject.
Mr. Jgbemiab Shits thouzht it improper to
discuss the principle of the bill at present, until
they had examined its parts. It was now the
time, he said, to propose alterations and amend-
ments. When the bill is matured and reduced to
form, then will be tbe time for discussing the prin-
ciple. The first section he thought proper for any
bill, and be hoped the motion lor striking out
would be withdrawn.
Mr. Paob was of opinion tbe first clause was of
the greatest consequence ; he hoped it would be
open to discussion. He had taken a view of the
whole bill, and thought it a had oae,aDd the soon-
er they entered upon the discussion of it the bel-
ter. He thought a better bill might be formed,
but wished rather to bring on the discustion than
to enter on it himself.
Mr. MoasAV wished the question of policy had
first been agitated whether it was necessary to
open a Land Office at all. He thought it should
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fflSTOBY OF CONGRESS.
pR.]
OmUMted EUction.
(.FCBSDABV, 1790.
hare been best to fakTe laid off die land in nogts
of lots, and when one nnge was patented and
•etded, to take another, Dniu ihe whole was dis-
posed of.
Mr. W. SMtTH said (he commitlee did not think
it neeessary to agitate the queacion of propriety
respecting the establishment of a Land Office ; the
Honse having authorized tfaeni to bring in a biil
for the purpose, they thought that sufficient. The
committee for preparing a plan forireducing the
National Debt, proposed a sale of the Western
lands. The question was, whether the present bill
was the best that could be formed for the purpose.
He believed it liable to objections, as he belicTed
any bill wotild be that was proposed. The i
mittee, he said, bad thought well of this
With respect to the motion for striking out
first clause, he thought it now improper, until we
know in what manner the lands are to be sold ;
and when we learn what duties the t^cers will
haTe to perform, we shall beat know who can do
them. The second clause, he said, related to the
surveying of lands ; the third clause is that which
has been objected to with respect to the size of
tracts. In a former bill it was proposed that the
lands should be divided into tracts of six miles
square; but the committee thinking these too
laige, determined upon baviog them three miles
guare only. These are yet thought too extensive.
e said be wished to hear everv objection that
eonld be urged a|t«insi the bill, and should be open
to conviction. The committee had two objecLs in
view—to raise revenue, and to sell the land in
such lots as would be most convenjenl to purcha-
sers. It was once thought of sellins the lands by
auction ; but it was feared, to have (Tone so, would
have been to open a door to speculators. They
determined, therefore, to fix it at the price of two
dollars an acre, and to sell no lands at present
which would not bring that price, because, hereaf-
ter, when settlements are made, inferior land will
command the same price. These were their sen-
timents, but they wished the subject to receive
full discussion.
Mr. Van Allbk withdrew his motion, and the
Committee rose and asked leave to sit again;
which was granted.
Tdbbdat, Febraaty 16.
[CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr. HiLLBonsB said he wished, before the or-
der of the day was gone into, to propose to the con-
sideration ofthe House a resolution which he yes-
terday mentioned as his intention of bringing for-
ward, if he was not anticipated fay any other mem-
ber, for regulating the taxing of evidence in case
of Contested Elections. He read the resolution,
which went to make legal all evidence taken be-
fore any judge, justice, mayor, &c., ina way there-
in described, and wished it to be taken into con-
sideration immedialply, supposing thai no objec-
tion would be made to the enacting a regulation
so necessary for settling disputed elections.
Mr. Baldwin said he should be against passing
the proposed resolution immediately. It was m
matter of considerable importance. Besides, to
pass it now, would seem as if it was intended for
an invitation for Mr. Ltoh to come forward ; and
he apprehended that most gentlemen who voted
for a postponement of that business did liot mean
to take any further ste;« in it, except Mr. Lton
himself personally solicited it.
Mr. OiLEH thought the resolution piopoeed was
of serious import. When the question was for-
merly agitated whether that Assembly could
make its own regulations for taking evidence on
Contested Elections^ it occasioned considerable
debate, and the motion was nvatived. He was
at that time, as be now was, ot opinion that the
House had the power. But he thought the ques-
tion ought to be matured, and not passed on a
sudden. The regulation should be general, and
not fitted for any particular case. He shoold move
that the consideration of the resolution, therefore,
he committed toa Committee of the Wnde House
on a distant day.
Mr. Sbdowics thought this resolution should
be committed to a select committee, which was
better calculated for the business than a Commit-
tee of the Whole. He was of opinion with the
gentleman who spoke last, that the House was
competent to make its own regulations with re-
spect to controverted elections. He said the deter-
mination upon Mr. Lyon's case had been put off
till the 29th March. Some way ought to be point-
ed out in which he might bring forward eviaenc^
or the postponement woufd be of no service to him.
He hoped, therefore, no more time would be taken
than necessary to inature the consideration of the
measures, that the proposed regulations might ap-
ply to the case of Mr. Lyoh.
Mr. Baldwin said the resolution should be re>
ferred to a Commitee of the Whole. He doubted
whether Congress could make these r^^ations
go beyond the present session. It had been said
no delay should be allowed, as it would prevent
Mr. Lyoh'b having the advantage of the regula-
tions. He said he wished the present rei<oluiiona
to apply to no particular case^ but to be general,
and tnen no mischief could arise from delay.
Mr. Vahnom urged the impropriety of making ,
tefpilations for Mr. Lvon's ease, when be did not
wish them. It was the wish of several members
of that House, but not of himself, unless, indeed,
he could haveacertainty of displacing Mr. SiiiTa.
Mr. Lyon very well knew what evidence was ne-
cessary ; he chose to act differently, and he should
abide the consequences. This resolution goes to
the admission oi ex parte evidence. If ii was ne-
cessary for the House to make a general rule, it
was well i but if gentlemen wished only a regula-
tion in favor of Mr. Lyon, he hoped they would
have the candor to say so.
Mr. HcLLROosK was indifferent as to what com-
mittee the subject was referred. !t had been
said that Mr. Lyon had given up the contest, ex-
cept invited to renew it. He thought a principle
was involved in this consideration, which he wish-
ed to be cleared. Mr. Lyon, he .said, wanted a
r..ii J f^|, .j ores ligation, and he ought to have
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
FtBBDARY, 1796.]
iVirrf&ttwitern Land Ofiee.
[tto
it. No «Tidenee, he aid, vas l%al, except taken
according to a rule approred bf Ine House. U
has before been a qtiesiioa whether we could make
ibese re&nlBtioiis. It required (fiscufdioo. His
motiTe for briogiuc forward the motion was,
that Mr. Lton might hare the means of coming
forward ; but he had been cautioas in wording it,
that the Hook might not appear to be volunteer-
ing in the canae of Matthew Lyon, though tie
owned he did not himself feel naj delicacy upon-
the subject.
The Spkakeb observed thai it was out of order
to bring into view the Contested Election buai-
Dess, and was about to put the motion, when
Mr. Bdck informed the House that he had that
morning receired a letter from Mr. Lyon, by
which It appeared that he intended to frosecule
the buHiness of his memoria], and that though he
fMr. Bock] was opposed to a recommitment oi
postponement of the report of the Committee ol
Sleclions, yet, as the House had declared in faror
of posiponemeat, for the obviouB purpose of giv-
ing Mr. Lton an opportunity of further invetti-
Siting facta, he considered it his duty, and the
aty of every member, now to endeavor to for-
ward that investization, by removiog out of the
way every obstacle to it ; and as the proposed re-
solutioa then before the House contemplated a
provision for taking evidence in all cases of Con-
tested Elections, it was of consequence that it
should be adopted aa soon as possible, that Mr.
Lyon irt^ht take the advantage designed by it.
He further Mid, that though he really believed
that LycH had no serious intention of prosecaliog
his memorial when he first sent it forward ; yet,
since he had found that Congress had given it a
serious attention, he was persuaded Lyon now in-
tended to follow it up.
Mr. Habper said t^e tioie was fixed for finally
determining the contest between Mr. Smith and
Mr. Lyon ; to adopt a distant day, therefore, for
iheeonsideralioooi the proposed regulations, would
he to deprive Mr. Lton of the opportunity of sub-
ttaotiating his evidence. He hoped, therefore, a
distant day would not be fixed upon, as the regu-
iatioQ was certainly intended to include his case.
Mr. Habpeb was proceeding to remark upon
different obaerrations which had fallen from mem-
bers io the course of debate, with respect to the
late contest, when the Spbakbb reminded him
ihat if such observations had been made, they were
oat of order, and any remarks upon them would
be equally so.
Mr. JtRSMiAH Smith thoaght the House should
make the necessary r^ulations. and let Mr. Lton
leirn them as he could ; he would soon be inform-
ed, he doubled not, of their determinations. The
Committee of Elections, he said, were discharged
ftom (he subjecl. He thought a special regula-
laiioo should be made for this particular case, and
not a general rale.
Mr. OiLEB regretted whenever a general rule
arose out of a particular case; it loo often was
varped by it. He wished every fact which conid
be brought in Mr. Lton's caM to be heard. If
gentlemen would bring forward a paciienlar rule
for taking evidence in this case, it should receire
his support. For the discussion of the genenl
principle he wished, and should vole for a distant
day to be fixed, as he apprehended much differ-
ence of opinion would take place on tb« occasion.
Mr. Gilbert was for a general rule Ihat would
embrace alt future cases as well as the present. ■
Mr. Jehiuiah Shitb rose to inquire if the gen-
eral regulation was put off to a distant day, whe-
ther it would be in order to bring forward, a mo-
tion to suit the case of Mr. Lyon t He was an>
swered by the Sfeaseb it would be perfectly in
The question was then put for postponing the
motion until Monday week, and negatived— being
for it 31, against it 50. It was then put for Mon-
day next, and negatived — being for it 39 against
it 42. It was then put for Thursday, and carried
without' a division.
Mr. Jesghiab Smith then moved "that the
Committee of Elections he instructed to describe
the mode of taking evidence in the case of Mat-
thew Lton;" which, after several otnervaiionB
from different members, was put to the vote and
negatived — being for it 36, agabst it 43.
NORTHWESTERN LAND pPFICE.
The order of the day being called for on the bill
for establishing Land OOices, and the House hav-
iog formed itself into aCommiitee of the Whole —
Mr. Williams said there was a diversity of
opinion on the bill before the Committee. It em-
braced iwo objects, as had before been observed^ to
rai.ie money and invite settlers. He did not think
this bill was calculated to encourage settlers.
Tbey could not become first purchasers, but must
have tho second or third transfers. Il behooved
the House, he^id, to deliberate well the subject.
It had been said, if the land were divided into
small parcels, the expense attending the disposal
of it would swallow np the piice. He trusted,
however, a mode would be devised of briaging
double the sum into the Treasury that would be
raised by the present bill, and, at the same time,
encourage settlers. He hoped, therefore, to at-
tempt to effect this would not be deemed a waste
of time. The Surveyor Oeneral, he said, should
be a man of abilities and integrity, and well ac-
quainted with the country. When this officer is
appointed, the bill should be so framed as that he
should be directed to lay the land out in small loia,
by the course of the rivers, pointing out every nt-
uation which he thinks likely to be of- importance.
He thought the best mode of selling would be by
auction, and that a longer time should be given
for payment. Let the Surveyor General or Su-
perintendent first explore the country, and cause
to be surveyed into smell lots all the places which,
from the locality and Bituation, would command
ao immediate settlement, (reserviogallaalt-springi
and places of importance to be hereafter disposed
of;) to these small lots let there he lots of larger de-
nominations also laid out. BO as to accommodate
the purchasers of the small ones — these to be sold
together. Then cause to be laid out the next most
valuable places, to be run off in squares of ten
;dbvGoogle
QQfi
HISTORY OP CONaRESS.
336
H-ora.]
NmihvifUm Land O^ct
[Pbbrdabv, 1796.
milea, which would make one hundred lots of six
hundred and fori; acres each. Fouf lots in the
centre of each tract should be reserved for public
Dae. Accurate surrevs of these lots should De ta-
ken. This iilan would enable settlers to be pur-
chasers in tne first instance. The land, thus di-
yided, would sell for a higher price, and it would
be settled with freeholders. On the contrary, if
the present bill be enacted, the land will be en-
grossed by speculators. The method he recom-
mended, he said, had always been found to an-
swer best in the settlement of a new country.
The plan had been acted on in the State which
be had the honor to represent, and land much in-
ferior to this had been sold with ease at two dol-
lars per acre. The eipeuse of dtsposing of the
land in this way, be said, would t>e Eomewhat
greaiei, but this would be amply repaid by the
Erice it would command. When the Surveyor
ad finished (he suirey of a certain part, persons
might be employed to sell it, and so proceed pro-
gressively. He should waive any furtner remarks
at present. He thought it necessary to throw out
these hints for tbc use of the Committee, and hop-
ed other gentlemen would delirei their sentiments
freely upon the subject.
Mr. FmnLEr, in order to bring the snbject more
f^Uy before the House, moved a clause to this ef-
fect: "that the Superintendent to be employ-
ed under thfs aatihall be well skilled in sur-
veying, and shall be paid per annum, out
of the moneyH arising from the sale of the lands,
and that he shall form boundary linen to be run be-
tween the territory belonging to the State of Con-
necticut, the lands secured to the Indians by Trea-
ty, and the territory of the United Slates." These
lines, he said, would be necessary to be run before
anything be done, that the lerrttor^t might be i
oertained. He wished to have an officer respc
sibie, and to ascertain what his salary should be
Mr. Greehcp did not see the necesiity of ei
ploying two Superintendents. If two were ei
Eloyed, why^iot neveacommiasion inevcrypUci
[e should propose to strike out two, and putoi
He thought, indeed, of moving to strike out t
whole of the first clause, and introduce another ._
its place. He was a^iost the whole of the bill,
but particularly the third clause, which proposes
lol.^ to be three miles square, so that no payment
will be received of less than 5,760 dollars down,
and at the end of a year, a like sum must be ad-
vanced. The land must, therefore, go into the
hands of monopolizers or not be sold at all. Mr.
Orkenup said the unappropriated lands in the
country were the property of the whole commu-
nity. In his opinion, districts should be Srst laid
off; when these were sold, more might he offered.
If two millions of acres a year could -be disposed
of; that would be sufficient There was land, he
nid, (alluding to the salt-eprings,] too valuable to
be pot jnio the hands of speculators ai two dollars
per acre. He objected to the mode of paying the
money for the lands, and rejvobated the bill in gen-
eral
Mr. KiTcHBi.1. said, it was necessary to confine
remaito to apeciflc parts of the hill, and not to the
whole. The Cominittee had done the beiit they
could, but would be glad to have their labors im-
proved. Four or five different systems were already
offered to the House, to every one of which, per-
haps, as many objections might be raised as against
the bill under discussion.
Mr. Qallatin wished to know whether it would
be in order to postpone the consideration of the
first section of the bill, to take up the second and
.Iliird : the first section was of no great conae-
Mr. W. Smith said, he had before wished this
mode to be adopted. He thought it would be best
to proceed to the considerstion of the second aec-
The Chairman having read the second sc
Mr. Gai.(.atim observed, that two remarks had
been made which applied to these sections. The
proposed modeof9Urveying,it had been said, would
throw out the natural boundaries of the country.
The next objection was to the largeness of the
tracts. Two amendments which he should pro-
pose would bring these two questions before the
House ; and if the amendments be thought male-
rial, the hill will of course be recommitted. His
motion would leave the power of the Surveyor
more discretionary ; that tbe words " parallel lines,
at the distance of six miles from eacti other," be
struck out ; that the Surveyor shall put the lands
into such lots as may he mosi convenient, to be
bounded by lines due North and East, or by natu-
ral boundaries. In this case, the lands must be
surveyed before they are sold, and tbe lines may
be run parallel on by rivers.
This motion being put into form, and read by
ihe Cliairman—
Mr. Datton (the Speaker) wished the amend-
nieat to be made more cdtrect with rcapect to the
boundary tines.
Mr. NicnoNAS also objected to the amendment,
OS not being clearly expressed.
Mr. Gall&tin explained.
Mr. Havenh said, before he could give his vote
on the amendment, he wished to know the size of
Che lots into which the land was proposed to be
divided. He said, the State of New York held oat
an example for them to foUow. No Slate had had
more to do in settlements than it. That State
had directed their lands to be laid out in squares
by means of ideal lines, and found little embarrass-
ment from this plan. He thooghc it very neces.-
sary lo ascertain, first, in bow large IrDCis the land
should be parcelled— who is lo sell it — to ascertain
the 'powers of officers, and the discretion to be
allowed them ; and, also, thai maps be taken or
the land.
Mr. NicHOLAa remarked, that if thecounlry was
not square, the lines could not be rnu in squares ;
but, he said, there was no necessity for going into
arrangements for the sale of every foot of land
tbe uncertainty of natural boundaries. He thought
a discretion in an officer might he used to greater
advantage than they could possibly give directions
to hini for laying out the lands. No officer, he
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
PsBRHAiiT, 1796.]
Conadtan Refugeea—Notihaattm Land Office.
[H. opR.
B critical
nitibn of different kinds
KriptioD of water, ft«. ; nor coald it be eipeuled
that GoTernmeQt could make the same adrantages
io disposing of this land as if it were private pro-
pertf . Large capitals, he said, were necessary in
abusiness ofihis kind. There was sreat difficolty,
he obscTTed, in starting farniers, Ef any adraO'
taees which might be oflered. from situations in
wnich they were placed. It might be expected,
ibat at first, large purchases would be mads by
moneyed men, upon which a profit would be made.
But if the land were to be divided into small lots,
there would be no encourafemenc for men of pro-
perty to come forward; toe best land would be
bought by farmers, and the rest left. He was fully
of opinion, that the first purchaser of the land was
not likely to be the cultivator.
The House calling for a rise of the Committee,
leave was asked to rise and sit again ; which was
granted. Adjonmed.
Wednesday, February 17.
THE CANADIAJl REFUGEES.
It ma moved that the report of the committee
on the petition of certain Canadian refugees be
taken into conaideratianj for the purpoM of com-
mitting it to the Committee of Claims.
Mt.IiiTiNoaTON though t this bnsiueas ought not
to go to the Comminee of Claims, as a promise of
a grant ol lands had been made to these claimants
by a former Congress; and therefore it was not
ihe justice of their claim which was to be consi-
dered, trat whether the promise made them should
or should not be fulfilled hy the present Congress.
Mr. Sbdowioe said, there was no difierenee, in
his opinion, betwist a claim for land and a claim
for money. All claims, he said, should be referred
to the Committee of Claims, and no other.
Mr. LiviHOBTOK requested that the reports of a
former Coufpeas might be read ; which, beingdone,
he insisted upon this case being totally dmerMit
from ordinaiT elaims. He said, the sufferers whose
ease was muleT consideration were men who had
sacrificed much in th« sNvlce of this countrv.and
that, in eonae^uenee of the justice of their claims,
a former Coagress had positively nromised ihem
a reeompenae of a grant of land ; they had there-
fore only to say whether ibis should or sboold not
bedoae. He was desirous that the business should
be expedited, as these men had been a long time
kept from what they Were justly entitled to.
A report of a committee m Febroary, 17B3, was
called tor and read.
Mr. WiLLUMa thought it best for theteport to
be recommitted, in order to determine what quan-
tity of land should be gi«ated to these persons.
He said he was w«ll acquainted with many of these
peiwna. who were very deserving menj many of
whom had givui up their fottones to engaee in
the service m this country. The Btate whicn he
teptesented had recompensed many of Aam, and
he trusted the House would not hesitate to cany
into effect the promise of a former Congress in
ibcir&vor.
Mr. Giles said, the report before the House
contained sufficient information to proceed upcn,
which ought to be committed to a Committee of
the Whole House. He did not thmk the baMness
proper to go either to the Committee rf Claims
or a select committee. If no fresh testimony was
likely to be adduced, he should move the report
of 1793, as a foundation to act upou. Some com-
pensation, he said, should certainty be made to
these sufferers for the sacrifices which they had
made of their persons and fortunes : or, if the coun-
try should hereafter hare need of like sacrifices,
with what reason could they expect them to be
made?
Mr. QREEtrnp obiierTed, there was another report
in favor of these sufferers made on the 1st April,
1794, which was never acted upon. He thought
it best that this business should be referred to some
committee to be considered. He said it was time
these claims were satisfied. A select committee
might soon decide upon their merits. He had other
papers in his pouession which would throw light
upon the subject. He thunght the report should
be disagreed to, end committed for amendment.
The motionwBS put for committing the subject
to a Committee of^ the Whole, and carried— 45
against 21.
Mr. Oreencp then moved that the report of the
1st April, 17M, on this subject, be referred to the
same committee. Agreed to, and made the order
of the day for Monday next.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr. LruAN moved for a reconsideration of the
tion of Israel Smith to the 39th ^ March. Mi
Lyon having anuounoed his intention to proceed
in the business, he should wish . the report of iJm
~ to be recommitted.
Mr. S. Smith hoped the House would agree to
the report of the committee ; and, if in order, he
would make a motion to that effecL
Mr.HiLLaoDSB said, if the gentleman who spoke
last had made up his mind on the subject, he had
Dot, and was not prepared to determine so sud-
denly on a matter of importance. He thought it
improper to put such a resolution, and ha^d ll
would be withdrawn.
Mr. S. Smith understood that his motion was
superseded by the motion for commitmeai, or he
should have wished it to have been put. He said
gentlemen repeated, day after day, the same sen-
timents upon this business, in a ttrefome manner,
and that it had already occupied loo much of tha .
time of the House.
The resolution for postponement was rescinded,
and the report of the Committee of Elections was
recommitted to the same committee.
NORTHWESTERN LAND OFFICE.
The order of the day being called for, on the
bill for opening land office* for the disposal oflands
in the Northwestern Territory, the Hobk resolved
itself into a Committee of the Whole, and tba
amendments of the 3d and 3d sections, oflhied bf
Mf, OtLLiTn, being or^- — -u— •:
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HISTOHT OP CONGKESS.
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N6rthve*Um Land Office.
[Fbbbdabv, 1790.
Mt. FiNDLBV obserTed, that there were diSereat
opinions on the subject befote iben) : some were
for mnkiag complete surveys ; some for large and
some Tor small tracts- Surreys, he said, should
' not destroy natural boundaries ; and tbe fewer par-
allel lines, the less deslrucCioa of this kind. It was
not necessary, he said, to say mucb upon the sixe
of tracts. A geatletoaD had said, it was necessary
to sell the land in large quantities. He was glad
to hear members express themselves so oleatly.
His views were directlv opposite : he was for en-
couraging farmers, and against engrossing. He
wished every man to have an opportunity of pur-
chasing fif^y or one hundred acres. The^ ought
not only to keep a wholesale but a retail store.
It was the interest, he said, of every country to
encouTBge freeholders: tbey are interested insup-
rttng the laws. This, he added, is not only good
Govemtnenl, but it tends to make the people
happy. Land is the most valuable of all property,
said he, and oueht to be brought within the reach
of the people. He next spoke upon the subject of
boundaries, and aaswerea the objections which
had been made aeainst taking natural ones. He
was for the amendment, and tru.sted all those who
wished to encourage industrious farmers would
also rote for it.
Mr. Qali^tin wished to withdraw his motion,
in order to introduce one of greater importance.
He did not think the present one material to be
determined upon at present. He proposed to strike
out part of the second section, and to add the fol-
lowio^ ; " to cause oue-half of the townships to be
mibdivided into tracts of. as nearly as may be,
miles square, and the other half lo be divided into
tracts not exceeding acres, nor less than ."
This, mid he, will bring into discussion and to the
determination of the committee whether they will
agree to the selling of part of the land, at least, in
small and convenient iarms.
Mr. RiTTHGRFORn thought the bill altogether
improper. If he asked a Bne painter to present
himapeacock, and he painted him a bat, he should
tell him, that though ne might be a fine painter,
yet he had totally mistaken him. He was pro-
ceeding to object to the whole bill, when he was
called to order, and concluded by saying he was
Ibr the amendment
Mr. Havehs did not see the propriety of having
lar^ and small tracts: he wished all the land to
be in amall tracts. Men who have large capitals
will have always an advantage over those whe
have but little property, though the land be in
nnall tracta. He thought a tract of one mile square
large enoush. He was against the bill altogether,
and thought a special committee should oe ap-
pointed to bring in a bill that would be more likely
to answer the desired purpose. He read some
propoaitioas which he had prepared on the sub-
ject, which recommended the ahotling of tracts
into six miles square, and subdividing Qiem again
into lots of one mile square.
Mr. Dayton said, there was an improprietjr in
moving to recommit the bill before it had received
diaeuuioD. The amendments proposed by a mem-
ber from PennaylvBoia were in ord«r, and should
be first considered. If every member were to pro-
pose different systems, there would be no possi-
bility of proceeding in the business. The object
of the last speaker might be obtained by an alter-
ation in the second section. It was easy to divide
one mile square into tracts of 160 acres each. In
the third section a subdivision might be proposed,
if members pleased. He touched upon the sub-
ject of natural boundaries, and said ne should be
Xinst the amendment, except he heard it ex-
ned more to bis satisfaction.
Mr. Qali^atih declared his reason for bringing
forward the amendment was, to have the import-
ant matter settled respecting the size of tracts. It
was immaterial whether this amendment was
introduced in one section or another. The bill,
he doubled not, would be recommitted, and then
tbe committee might place it where they pleased.
He considered that there were three classes of
purchasers: iht; first were moneyed m..n. who
were commonly called sneculatorSj who were not
likely to settle upon the land they purchased, but
who would sell it aeain for a profit; the second
cla-ss were farmers oT small property, who would
purchase and settle upon the land ; the third class
were men who have not money to purchase,
except the land was sold much balow its value.
He said there was uo object of so great importance
to the United States as the extinction of the curse
of the country, the Public Debt, and no class of
citizens woula be more benefited by this extinc-
tion than the poor. It was in the power of the
United States, he said, to redeem and extinguish
the whole Debt in ten years. He considered that
a certain proportion of farmers of small property,
who are able to pay for land, and who wish to
remove from their present situations backward,
would purchase : he wished to give them an oppor-
tunity. But there remains another class, said he,
who are likely to purchase large tracts; and this
land to sell. These' poor persons must purchase
ou' long credit, and pay out of the profits of the
land. Many parts of the United States, it was
true, had been peopled by persons of no property
at all ; but tbey got their land for nothing. After
a term of fifteen years' possession, the StBte,indeed,
called upon them for some trifling consideration.
The purchasers of large lots may, it is true, choose
whom they will credit, and what profit they will
have ; but this must be so. The money, by these
means, would be got into the Treasury, and there-
fore he thought the amendment proper, bv divid-
ing the land into two classes. If the whole, he
said, were to he divided into small tracts, persons
would choose here and there, and prevent men of
property from purchasing large tracts lying toge-
ther. Mr. G. concluded, with observing, he might
be mistaken in some things, in others ne thought
he was not, having paid much attention to the
subject. It was necessary, he said, to make some
order to reconcile difierent opi-
Mr. NicnioLAfl was confirmed in his opinion
that speculators would be of service in the dis-
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Ndrthvtitem Land Office.
[H.ofR>
posal of this Un<i. He wai willLag that ihe plan
proposed by the ameDdment might be adopted,
Dot was afraid by the alteraiion proposed, the cer-
tainty which was contemplated by the bill of a
person's goiog orer the land, and uing upon thin
or that part, would be defeated.
Mr. KiTCHELL thought the amendment might
be GO formed as not to destroy tJie pRrallel lines
marked in the original bill, bf inserting the amend-
ment Bt the end of the section.
Mr. Gallatin waa willing to agree to the pro-
posed alteration.
Mr. Rdtherfohd again occupied a conaideia-
ble thne in making objections against the bill,
which were pretty much the same as those he
brougbt forward yesterday.
Mr. Cbabb was in favor of the amendment. It
woold provide, he said, for different classes of ci-
tizens, and, by causing the land to bring a better
price, be productive to the Treasury. He was
against having all the land laid out in large lots ;
in that ease men of small property could not be-
come adventurers, except by combming into com-
panies— a. plan he did not like. A member had
taid, it would still give moneyed men an oppor-
tunity of purchasing to advantage; he thought
differently, as there would be great uncertainty in
getting lots lying together.
Mr. Havenb moved that the words "onc-halP
be struck out of the amendment. He had no
doabt the amendment was brought forward with
the best intentions; but it would not sufficiently
prevent monopolizing. He thought if the land
was put in small lots, which was the object of thi.i
motion to strike out, moneyed men would have
all the advantages they ougat to have.
Mr. MooBE said it was aeairable that every ci-
tizen who had a wish to purchase a part of this
laud should be accommodated. Security in every
purchase of land was a principal thing; and the
security given by purchasers will not be equal to
that given by Qovernmcnl. If the land were di-
vided into small traci^he doubled not the best
land would sell immediately, and when that was
settled inferior land would command a price equal
tothebest. He hoped the amendment would pass.
Mr. WiLMAHS said there would be no compe-
tition, if all the land were in large tracts. A
man who can purchase a few hundred acres can-
not oppose a man who is ready to purchase as
many thousands. If the amendment was agreed
to, the bill would be so fiained as to accommo-
date all classes of purchasers, by laying out the
lands into small and large lots, as the situation
and quality of the land required ; this would em-
brace two objects, to wit: the settlement of the
l>nds, and brmging money into the Treasury, to
discharge the Public Debt.
Mr. QnGEHiip did not like the amendment ; he
wished the whole of the land to be divided into
imall lot*.
Mr.NicHOLAS observed, that persons whoeoold
purchase large lots, would not pnrchase small
poe^ and, therefore, the public Treasury would
be injured by dividing the whole into small
Pucels.
Mr. Dattoh was against 'ho amendmeal to
theamendment. Some purchasers, he said, would
go out, in companies, and some single. If per-
sons of the first descnption could not have a cer*
tainiy of purchasing a sufficient quantity of land
lying together, it would be a great discourage-
ment to them. Besides, he said, the expense at-
tending the mode, would exceed calculalion. He
was willing that a part of the lands should be laid
out in small lots, but not that the whole should
be so divided.
Mr. DcAaaoHN was agatsst both amendments,
because they would not answer the purpose
intended. He thought the land would be set-
tled without these regulations. He had no ob-
jection to the accommodating persons of small
property, but he would lay out small lots in cer-
tain parts lying together. Persons, he said, who
purchase with a view of selling again, would not
purchase unless they were to purchaso a township
six miles square.
Mr. DuvALL was in favor of the original amend-
ment i but be would burden the public with no
expense of surveying lots less than one mile
square, or six hundred and forty acres. Persobs
who purchased might divide such a lot into four
Crts, if they pleased, at their own expense. The
'ge tracts of three miles square might be left
for those who chose to purchase. He would con-
fine all surveys to four lines, except in cases of
water. &c. If these principles were agreed upon,
the bill might be recommitted.
Mr. Livingston thought they should either
adopt the plan of selling in large parcels only or
in small tracts only. No person, he said, would
purchase a large tract at the same price which a
small one was sold for. He was in favor of the
amendment amended. He was for dividing the
land into lots of a mile square. It has been said
if this was done, large purcha.sers would not come
forward, because small lots might be taken from
a parcel which they might wish to purchase to-
Siiher. The plan, be said, likely to reduce the
ebt soonest, and encourage settlers, was the best.
Small tracts wilt do this. They will bring a
higher price, and from real settlers. The State
of New York, be said, first divided their unap-
propriated lands into large lots, which sold from
one shilling to three shillings per acre ; after-
wards they were divided into small tracts, and
sold for two dollars per acre.
Mr. Venable said there was not one man in
an hundred who could purchase three miles square
□f land ; but ninety-nine out of an hundred might
be found willing to })UrchaBe a small tract. A
fair competition, he said, ought to be nveo. He
saw no difficulty in dividing the lots. Purehaseri
might do this. The ^reat mass of money in this
country, he said, lay in the hands of persons of
small property.
MrPiNDLEVsaidthe amendment to theamend-
ment came nearest to his opinion of right. It
was said putting the land in small parcels would
prevent men ormoney from purchasing. Gxp»-
rience in this Stale, he said, contradicted thi*.
where, though lots were limited to foar hundred
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
ATnerican Seamen — Ditabied Officerw tmd Soldier*. [Fbbbujlbt, 179S.
lots, no particular political interest waa Jbrmed.
He did not think large purchases vrere likely to
accommodate poor persons. He believed many
Eraons of thi; description- were already on the
ids. The expense of. dividing the land into lota
of one hundred and sixty acres each would not be
so great as had been supposed ; he would engage
to do it for less than two per cent, on the lowest
purchase. The surveys must not, be said, be taken
by purchasers, bnt by a smreyor appointed by
EtoTerameni. He was not for sub-aividing the
whole, but a part of the land,
Mi. EiTTERA said it was wished, by making
small lots, to prevent the necessity of purchasing
of speculators. Instead of lots of six miles square,
be would propose lots of five miles square, or six-
teen thousand acres, as attended wiln more cer-
tainty in the division. Townships might then be
divided into four cross lines, making four thou-
sand acres, and then again into four, making lots
of one thousand acres each. This might be done
with certainty, would save expense in surveying,
and answer the purpose of the amendment.
Mr. H&vfiNB again rose to defend his amend-
ment, and said the reasoning against it was falla-
cious. Whatever part of Uie laud was sold in
large lots, speculators would get the profit of, but
of the small lots Government would receive that
profit.
Mi. Dayton coolroveited the last speaker's
argumenlE. on the same ground as before, that
lliey would prevent companies of persons, or num-
bers of families agreeine to settle logetbei from
purchasing as they would wish.
Mr. Crabb was asaiBii the amendment to the
amendment. He thought the last speaker had
completely defeated the arguments in support of
it Both poor and rich classes, he said, would be
disappointed by the proposed plan, and the vie
of gaining revenue would be frustrated. If smalh
lots than a mile squaie be not laid out, thousands
of persons would not be served. Farmers of mid-
dling property could only purchase. Two-thirds of
the purchasers would be excluded. By laying out
the Wd in loige and small tracts, persons of every-
deKiiplion would be suited. Ai least the expe-
riment was worth trying.
Mr. Sberborne said if the whole of the land
were to be divided into small lots, men of pro-
perty would be excluded ; as if ihey were to par-
chaae a ndmber of small lots, they could not sell
tbem again (hi the Mtne terms with Government
He did not think there were many families ready
to go and settle upon these lands, as had been as-
serted; and he was not, he said, desirous of re-
moTing the inhabitantsof the. Atlantic States into
these back aelltementi, but wished rather to im-
port Mttlers. He was therefore for having part
of the land in large tracts.
Mr. C1.AIBORX& was foe the latter amendment,
uid'if adopted, he had a clause which he wiihea
to be addeo. He thought the poor ought to be
tceommodated as weiT aa the wealthy ; and he
could not see that the latter would be excluded
by the proposed division.
Mr. Van Allen qpoke a considerable time upon
the sabjecc He was in &vor of making the
tracts five miles square, which nkight, he said, be
so divided as to suit allpurchasers.
At this pomt the Committee rose, and the
House adjourned.
THtjRgo.^v, February 18.
A member expressing a wish that before the
order of the day was takeu up, the bill granting
relief to Lieutenant Benjamin Si ro I her, Toe sup-
porting « number of recruits on their march to
the Army might be considered, and the sense of
the House being in favor of doing so, it went
through the necessary forms, was agreed to, read
a second time, and ordered to be engrossed for a
third reeding to-morrow.
AMERICAN SEAMEN.
After disposing of a number of petitions —
Mr. LiviNosTOK wished to call the attention ot
the House to the cause of an imporlaut body of
men, the seamen of this country. They were, he
said, of three descriptions, native Americans, Eu-
ropeans, or naturalized citizens. All these, said
he, are equally entitled to the protection of ibe
laws of the United States, though their profession
sometimes puts them out of it. These men, he
said, sailing under the American flag, have been
illegally seized, cruelly torn from their friends
and country, and ignomintously scourged ; yel
this country nas for three years i>een silent, look-
ing upon their sufferings with listless apathy. An
instrument bad indeed been formed between this
country and that whose subjects had thus treated
our seamen ; but it was in vain that they looked
for redress in that. He should, however, always
think it his duty to endeavor to procure this ill-
treated body of men some relief. He then read
a resolution, proposing to appoint a committee to
examine into tne subject, and to furnish some
remedy to the evil complained of.
After a few observations from Mr. 9. SuiTR,
Mr. McRRAv, and Mr. Bwanwick, the resolutitw
was ordered to lie on the table.
DiaABLED OFFICERS AND SOLDIEBS.
The order of the day being called for, Mr.
Tract wished, in order the sooner to furnish re-
lief to their BufiFering fellow-citizens, that the
order of the day might be dispensed with for a
short time, ibr taking np the bill for the relief ol-
wounded and disabled officers and soldiers in the -
actual service of the United Sutes.
Mr. Gallatin did not see the necessity of post-
, ining the order of the day for the eonsideratioQ
of the bill in question ; but he mentioned another
which was of the first conscqaence, viz., the re-
port of the Committee of Ways and Means fof
making fnrther prorision for tfce Public Debt.
The sense of the House being taken, it was in
favor of taking up the business recommended by
Mr. Tract i and tiie Honse resolved itself into a
Committee of the Whole on the subject, and
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346
PEiRnART, 1796.J
Public Debt—Northwegtem Land Offica
[H.orR'
WMd to the bit! vrilhout amendment. The
Houte then proceeded to take it into considers'
tion. A few remarks were made by differenl
members on the propriety of including in the hill
vounded militiamen also. This was objected to
u a leparate consideration, which woula be bet-
ter brought forward ar another time. The words,
"fourth of March, seventeen hundred and eighty-
ome,"(resirietinB the benefit of the act to per-
MDi wounded subsequent to that time,) were, on
motion, agreed to be struck out. The bill was
then agreed to, and ordered to be engrossed for a
third reading.
PUBLIC DEBT.
Hr. G«LLATiH brought forward the considera-
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole, Mr. Gallatin moved three
different amendments, which went to the making
more clear the lime of paying dividends, the
making of payments more uniform, and the leav-
iae open the rate of interest, which being sever-
alTy agreed to, the Committee rose, and the report
and amendments being read to the House, ^
agreed to as follows :
"Jteaohed, That, in respect to the ftlnded ilock of
the United Statta bearing m preMut intei'Mt of ni par
centum, there shall be dividenda made on the tut days
of March, June, and September, for the present year,
It the rale of ens and one-half per centumi uid &dbi
tile jear one thaiuand aeven hundred uid ninety-seven
Id the year , inclusive, at the rate of per
centum upon the original capital. That thSTB be divi-
dende mede on the laat days of Decsmber, from the
(nwnt year to llie year , ineluiive, at the rate of
per centam upon the original cainlal ; and that ■.
dnidend be made on the la*t daj of December, in the
year , of p«a centmn upon the original cqii-
tal, in tuU of the laid itoek.
"Metohied, That paviaioD' ought to be made far re-
imbanina, in the^MmepcopoitioiH u the other eii per
ant. (tock, the balanoea lieuing, and to Iwai, inleraat
■t Bi per centum, doe to certain Sules, which were
ftmded in conwqueuce of an act oaiaed Hay the thir^-
Ent, one tfaouaand eeven hundred and mne^-bur.
"Raotvtd, That the Commienooen of the Sinking
Foiid be suthOTBed to ei^wiat ■ Secretary for the poi-
poae of recording uid preserving their proceeding! and
docunenta ; and that a sum nOt exceeding two hun-
dred end fifty dollan be annually allowed the eaid Be-
cietirj for hi> eervteee."
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in
snant to the said resolutions, and thai the Cmu-
mittee of Ways and Means do prepare and bring
in the same.
NORTHWESTERN LAND OFFICES.
The order of the day was next taken np o
bill for establishing Laud Offices, and the
the
amendments of Mr. Gallatin ana Mr. HavEHB
being onder consideration,
Mr. KiTCBBLL hoped, the words one ha^ vdaU
sot be 3iruckout,aalie wished purchasers of every
description to he accommodated. If the latter
amendment were to pass, a favorite spot might be
taken from the midst of^a large lot, and prevent
large tracts of land being sold. The Treasury, he
said, should be considered as well as the coaveoi- '
ence of purchasers. One half of the land divided
into small lots would be amply sufficient, and the
remainder remaining in large tracts, might be pur-
chased by foreigners or others.
Mr. Williams said, the chief objections urged
against small lots were cbiegy that they would
not suit persons of large property to purchase so
well as large lots. Persons of property, said he,
can generaUy accommodate themselves ; we ought
to accommodate the lower classes of the peo^e.
He hoprt! the hilt might be so framed as to em-
brace all the objects. He would not wish to pre-
vent companies of persons from purcha^tDS large
districts ;ne believed there were such in this city
who would wish to do so. Or townships, he said,
might be divided into halves or quarters. By thui
dividing their lands, the State which he represent-
ed hatf acquired three times the sum that they
would otherwise have got. This plan had not.
he said, prevented speculationj'but it had ezcitea
a competition whicn had greatly favored their
treasury. If the measures now agreed upon, should
not he found the best, they might be remedied in
the next Congress. A surveyor, he said, should
explore this country, and point out the most valu-
able lots. These would bring a high price. When
a settlement took place, he said, the unoccupied
land near to it would immediately rirfe in. price.
It wonld be best, therefore, to do the business grad-
ually, as this mode would eventually brine the
largest sum into the Treasury ; a sum whicn he
hoped would nearly discharge the National Debt.
It had beensBid,it mattered not who got thelandsi^
provided we got the money; but, he thought it of
the first consequence that the country should be
settled with industriousfreeholders. He conclud-
ed by hoping the latter amendment would be
Mr. Baldwin thought the original amendment
went far enough ; he believed the price put upon
the land would be a sufficient checK upon specu-
lators. Perhaps it would be well, he said, to di-
vide every alternate square into small tracts. If
speculators bought the Urge tracts, when the small
ones came to he settled, they would divide and seU
theirs ; or, if the large tracts remained in the hands
of Qovernment, they might afterwards be divided
into small lots. He thought it best to commence
the business with large and small lots.
Mr. Maclat was o( opinion, that the commit-
tee who brought in the present bill had principally
the Treasury in view; but if a. mode could he
adopted ihai would equally encourage settlers and
benefit the public funds, it would he desirable. It
must be evident, he said, to every one, that an
actual settler would not he able to purchase the
quantity of land mentioned in the hill. He be-
lieved there would be no difference of opinioa on
that head. It would be well to inquire what ptas
would operate most to the advantage of the Traa-
sury. He believed it was a fact generally allowed
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Northvetterti Land Ogictt.
[Febrdaby, 1796,
that the greatest qnautity of the moDey in this
country lay in the hands of agriculturists. These
piarchaseriL then, shauld be met ; for if the quanti-
ties of land offered be too great, or the price too
high, these men would be shut out from the mar-
ket; Eut he thought a system mieht be devised
which would equally suit moneyed men and men
of small property. In tbe extent of country tbev
were about to dispose of, there was land enough
to satisfy the demand of puicbesers of every class.
The ooly question is, the best way of doing this.
It must be on terms which they can emorace.
Men of little money must have small parcels of
land, whilst men of large property may have as
much as they please. Shiill these purchasers be
mingled togetner or separate? Persons purchas-
ing small lots, would wish to be near their friends
or connexions, who might also have been pur-
chasers, that they might be of mutual service to
each otner. Tbe way then, in his opinion, to mcrt
both demands, would be to lay off one part of thi:
land in large tracts, and tbe other in small lots.
Besides, said be^ suppose a lot of six miles squarf
settled, the adjoining lots would immediately in-
crease in value, and as no one would have a claim
to it, il ou^hl to go the Treasury of the United
States, which it would do, if the lands were un-
disposed of. The two plans, he observed, should
by all means be kept distinct, as there was an im-
Kssibiltty of doing two things at the same lime.
le would interfere with the other. He said, the
land they were about to dispose of, was a great
common right to which every citizen in the coun-
try was entitled to a share, therefore, to bring it
'o market in such lots as but few can purchase.
injustice ; besides, persons of small property
d he lost as purchasers by such a conduct. If
tbe Treasury, indeed, alone was considered, small
lots would best answer tbe purpose. He said it
would be also unjust to bring tbe whole of tbe
land into the market at once ; for, as it is a com-
mon right, all ought to have a chance of purchas-
ing, and some persons who cannot just now raise
money, might be able to buy in the course of a few
years. Nor would it be prudent, he said, to glut
the market. The quantity necessary for the pre-
sent demand might easily be calculated.
With respect to boundaries, Mr. M. thought it
easy to describe lots sufficiently correct, by means
of rivers, creeks, &c. As one part of the country,
he said, became settled, another would increase in
Talue, and by a proper disposal of these lands the
National Debt would be extinguished ; hut, if this
plan failed, there would he no resource left but
taxation, which it would be desirable to avoid. It
has been said that the survey should he bound
down by the cardinal points ; this method, he said,
might prove to be the most inconvenient of any.
He concluded by saying, that policy and justice
equally required that purchasers of every descrip-
tion should be attended to, and hoped, therefore,
that the amendments would be agreeA to, and the
bill recommitted.
Mr. H&BPES wished to call the attention of the
Hotue to the business immediately before it.
Members still wandered, he said, and lost sight of
the point to be decided upon. If these desultory
discussions were permitted, there would be no end
to the business. Amendments have been made,
he said, with a view of briDging before the House
the question, whether the land should be laid off
in large tracts, in part large and part small, or all
small. Some members have given their opinion
in one way, some io another. He wished the
question to be decided, whether all the tracts
should be of one size or not.
Mr. H^veNB again rose to tupporl his amend-
ment, and, in answer to the objection which had
been brought against the plan of small lots on the
ground of expense, said that tbe charge of survey-
mg tbe land mtd lots of a mite square would not
exceed 2d. per acre. In support of his argument,
he referred to the experience of tbe State of New
York.
Mr. Cooper said, that though the land in the
State of New York had been sold in lots of 100
acres, no farmers were purchasers. He said, he
bougtit many of the tracts himself. Neither did
farmers purchase when land was sold at 8c^ per
acre, at vendue. Tbe true cause of the land sell-
ing high in that State, was the competition of
moneyed men at vendue.
Mr. Havenb answered, that it was suiGcient to
-support bis amendment, to prove that land in small
lots produced a better price than when disposed of
in large tracts.
Mr. Grabs, was in favor of the original amend-
ment as embracing both the wholesale and retail
plans. No attention, it is said, should be paid to
moneyed men, they will take care of themselves.
Though this was true, yet if the Treasury was to
be served, it was necessary to accommodate them,
as they could not be expected to become purcha-
sers, if obstructions were thrown in their way. If
our Treasury was indeed swelled with riches,
there would be no necessity, perhaps, for this at<
tention i but, in its present state, thdr money
would be useful. We might say there is no man
in tbe community who baa not a claim upon oni
unappropriated lands. Brery man has a right in
them ; but policy will not admit of a strict mqui-
ry into this, yet we must go as near the mark as
possible. It has been said, that selling a part of
these lands would raise the price of those adjoin-
ing. This was true, and the strongest incitement
to purchasers. Men of property, lie said, would
not lay out their money, if no chance of gain was
held out to them. He thought if the price of the
land was fixed at two dollars per acre, speculators
who purchased it would not injure, but benefit the
United States. If nothing, be said, was contem-
plated but the sale of a small porlloa of land, Go-
vernment might reserve a part for future demands;
but the Treasury wanted the money. No calcu-
lation, he observed, could he made of the quantity
of land necessary for the present demand. Many
persons would become purchases who had not yet
applied. He said the only way in which the
poorer classes could get possession of land, would
be by means of the purchasers of large lots, who
would give them long credit.
Mr. Gallatin thought the differenee betwixt
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
PEBBDiBY,179&]
DigtUkd apiril»—NbTih»e»Um Land Office*.
[H.opR.
hi* ■meDdmeDt and that proposed by Ibe member
from New York, wan not ao creat as had been
cooeeiTed by that gentlemaa. He did col mean
by his amendment fas seemed to have been nn-
dmCood by aeveral members) that one-half of
treiy tract should be laid oat Jn small lots, hat
that cErtaia townships should be laid ont in larae,
and otheie in small lots. He thought the plan he
proposed, ^uld pTonde as many sntall lots as
would be waBted, and more was unaecessary.
The larse tracts, he said, would be purchased by
men of lar^e property, aad they would sell a|;ain
tD the poorer classes on credit, which was the only
way in which they conld get possetsioo of a part
of this land, asGrorerament would not be inclmed
to gire the credit necessary to he given to these
purchasers.
The question being called for, the second amend-
ment for all smttlt lots was first put and lost, and
then the first for largr- and fimall. which was car-
ried without a diTision ; and the Hou^ adjourned.
Fbidav, February 19.
The committee to whom was referred the bill
for establishing trndiog housesfor the Indian tribes,
with the amendments proposed by the Senate, re-
port it as their opiuon, that the amendments
ibould not l>e adopted, except one of them which
The biU Tor relief of certain officers and soldiers
who have been wounded or disabled in the actual
lervice of the United Slates, was read a third
time- And the blank which was at first filled up
with the words, " 4th of March, 1789," was agreed
lo be agaio so filled, eie the member who moved
these words to be struck out, said he found that the
uneudment would not inclade the persons he in-
tended to include. The bill was then passed.
The bill for relief of Lieutenant Benjamin Stro-
ther was read a third time and passed.
DUTIES ON DISTILLED BPIHITS.
Mr. Harper wished the unfinished business be-
fore the House to give way for a short time to en-
■ble him to present some resolutions relative lo
the duty paid on distilled spirits, for the purpose
of committing them to the Committee ot Ways
and Means. The resolutions were accordingly
read as follows;
" Raoietd, That the daliei now payable on •[aiits
diitilled witlUn the United Stales, ought to be trauifei-
nd from the comniodUy, and laid upon Iha instnunent.
" Raolotd, That the collection of these dntiei, and
ottJt other internal reTenues of the United Stsieg, ought
lo be nude by the CoUecton of the VBiioiu States un-
der the direction of the Treasory Department, and of
the Superriaon of the Reienue, except in cases where
Qw District Jadge, on application of the Buperriaor,
^lall declare any such Collector to be an improper
" Retotttd, Thai all Sne* and fetfaiturea incnired un-
der the Revenne Laws of the United Stales, onght to
Im sued tot in the Stale Conrts ; uiJeM where the Coa-
•aiesiiiiiiii of the Revanne, onder particnlar drenm-
■tances statod to hiffl by the Saperrieoi, diall oIlMnriia
direa."
Mr. Harpib observed, that though it might not
be found practicable to carry all the proposed
measures into effect, yet he wished them to be
coniinilted to the committee he had mentioned,
in order to have their report thereon.
After anumber of observationsfrom severalmem-
bers, for and against the 'resolutions being cotnmil-
ted, it was finally agreed lo, 39 to 44.
AMERICAN SEAMEN.
Mr. Livingston said, as the unfinished business
might lake up much time of the House, before it
was entered upon, he wished the resolution to be
taken up, which he yesterday laid upof the table
relative to the case of American seamen.
The Hou&e consenting, the following resolution
was read, agreed to unanimously, antfieferred lo
a committee of five members.
" Raohed, That a committee be ^jptnnted to inqoim
and report whether an; and what LegistatiTe provision
is necessaiy far the relief of such Amencao seunen u
may hsTO been impressed into the service of any foreign
Power — snd also to reports mode of fiunishing Ameri-
can seamen with such evidence of their dtiienship ss
may protect them from foreign impresiment in liiture."
LAND OFFICES NORTHWEST OF THE OHIO.
The order of the da? on the bill for establishing
Land Offices for the sale of the Northwestern Ter-
ritory, being again taken up, and the House hav-
ing formed itsdf into a Committee of the Whole,
and the second section being read,
Mr. Habfgb said he wished, to more an amend-
ment. The vote of yesterday, he observed, had de-
cided upon one principle of this business, viz : thai
the land should one-half be sold in tracts of a lai^
size, and one- half in lots of a small size. Another
important principle which he thought proper now
to be determined upon, was, what quantity of land
should be sold — wnettter the whole of the ex-
were to produce revenue, and to lay off the land in
such a manner as to conduce to its settlement.
These were certainly important objects, he said,
but not the only ones. Another object was, to
adopt such a mode of settlement as should pre-
serve pe«(^ and continue to give a stable and or-
derly system of government lo this new society.
The object of revenue, he said, was not the most
important though desirable — as we might do with-
ont this for the present— but to settle this laud in
a wny so as to secure order and good government
was of the first importanee.
The bringing of the whole of this land into the
market at once, Mr. H. observed, would be a great
disadvantage; as it was a well known fact, that
the price ctf a commodity always depended on the
proportion the qnaotity to be disposed of bore to
the demand. Here is a country, said he, contain-
ing twenty millions of acres — a part of which are
appropriated and part unappropriated. The unap-
propriated part he supposed wcnild amount at least
to ten millions of acres— a tract considerably larger
than many large States — larger than Maryland.
What number of pecqtt^ said he, is necesnry to
pec^e this tract of country 7 wore than can be
DQ,zo.o, Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
rred ftom other State*. To bring the wkole
this land forward to aale at ones would ovei-
•tock the muket ; and if you sold at all it moat
be at a low price to moneyed men, and it would
be eTen doubtful whethei purohiaen of tlris clan
could be found sufficient.
It will, tbctefore, scud Mr. H., be ueceuary to
make the object of rereoue pnidnctive, - to pro-
poTtioB the quantity of land to be disposed of, to
the demand. If, iostead of the present plao of
laying out the whole Territofy, one and a half
million of acres were to be set out, this anantity
would sell at a sood price, be aooa settled, and
then an ad4itionarquaiiiiiy adjoininr to this miefat
afterwards be laid off. which wouldbrincr a highet
price, and be bonght by actual settlers. The price
of land must ultimately be paid by the cuitifator,
and if Government can meet his 'wants, it will be
better than referring him to second-hand dealers.
There were a class m cultiTftlors, indeed, he said,
who cpuld be accommodated only by speculators.
(In speaking of speculators, he said ne did not
mean to east any odium upon the character ; he
thought land as fair an object of speculation as
coffee, ur any other article of merchaDdise.) The
Operation will be this: GoTemment offers the
land for Mle at a minimitm price. Persons ap-
fdyingfor land will offer their plans, explain their
wants, and fresh parcels of land can be laid off as
occasion requires. Though, by a plan of this kind,
«o much money be not raised t^is year or nest
year to the Treasury, it will be best nliimately.
Had a private individual a lar^ stock of land to
diqiose of, he would adopt a aimilar proceeding;
be would sell it off in parts and reserve the re-
mainder in his hands to meet future demands as
they should arise. '
Id support of his argument, Mr. H. cited the
example of other Slates which had experience in
bosiness of this kind. If the whole ten million
acres were to be exposed to public sale at once,
it would either not be sold at all, or &11 into the
hands Of capitalists. The 150,000 families which
have beensaid to be ready to settle in thiscoDDtry
would do hot little towards purchasing this land.
By this plan. Government would put into the
hands of capitalists, to retail on any terms they
^eased, that land which it should keep in its .own
lot the accommodation of its citizens.
The next object, Mr. H. said, was to secure snch
a mode of settlement aa would preserve peace and
good government. This, he Biid,would not be
done by selling the whole at one time, but by sell-
iiig it ptogtessively. To offer the whole for sale
at ohce, and let persona settle on any part of this
wide extended country, would be to put them out
o( all government, out of all reach of the laws of
society, and take away from them all power of
defence. On the contrary, to limit the settlements,
would be to obviate all tbese difficulties. It might
nqt, however, he said, be expedient to confine set-
tlements to one point— there plight be settlements
in three different parts of this land, so as to accom-
modate emigrants from different quarters of the
United States. Besides, this plan would increase
in a greater prt^tortion Qie value of the remaining
NarOuMtUrK Land 0^4x».
[Fkhdaxt, 1796.
■mold land, as each Kttlement would enhanee
the value of the ksnil in its vicinity.
Mr. H. concluded by saying it was an impor-
tant object to attend to the manner of settling this
country. Perhaps, be said, the most important
differences which bad arisen betwixt the different
States in America, was owing to the diSereot
methods adopted in their original settlement If
a settlement was commenced by degrees, order
begins at first, and grows with its growth, aad
strengthens with its strength ; but if a cxmntry be
settled before any regnlar order takes place, if S
good Government is ever established, it is by tcrag-
gling with a variety of diffienliies. For these rea-
sons, he thought it of vast importance to adopt thr
plan he proposed, and read his resolntion, the
purport of wtiicb proposes to divide and subdivide
the lands within certain limits, having reference
principally to natnial boimdaries.
Mr. Macon asked if the motion was in order ;
he supposed it was not, as the section had already
been amended. He thought it would be best to
proceed with the bill, in Uie mode now pursued ;
the House would not get through the
bill by next March twelTe-monib, He surgeste
to the mover the propriety of reserving nis mo-
tion for the purpose of bringing it forward in the
The Chairman considered the motion as out of
order, unless part of the amendment agreed to
yesterday was first struck out. Mr.HARPER agreed
to alter his motion, so that it might not interfere
with that amendment, which he was not op-
Mr. SwANWiCE, — The only thing that appears
to me to be material to inquire, is how tar we
have occasion for money, so as to en^ge tis to
enter into the sala of these lands. It is allowed
on all hands to be a very desirable measure to pay
oS our Debts. The PiiBaiDBKrT has strongly re-
commended it in each of his Addresses to several
successive Legislatures, No blame can rest upcMi
him if it be not done ; the moment appears favor-
able. Owing to the war in Europe all funded
Debts are low in price ; though we are not en-
gaged in the war, yet our stocks feel the effect ;
tbey are even below the British in the market
rate in London, according to prioes lately quoted
from thence, which 1 attribute in a great measure
to the interest being payable, and the principal
ttansfetable here only. At the peace it is proba-
ble alt tbese funds will rise, pernaps twenty-five
to thirty per centum or more, beyond their actusl
rates ; as in Britain, before the war, their three
per cents, were nearly at par value; at ibat rate
our six per cents, may be worth iwentv-five to
thirty shillings per pound deferred, and tnree per
cent, in proportion. Whether lands will rise in
Eroportion to the rise of the price of our Public
>ebt in the market, is uncertain. The general
eagerness to sell lands, and the general idea of
their present high prices, seems to indicate ths
contrary as the most prevalent opiaion. Be this,
however, as it may, 1 cannot see that it is lesa
ri^ht for a nation, than it would be for an indi-
vidual, to sell off bis landed property to pay off
;dbvGoogle
u$
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
FVBDkKT, 1790.;]
AbrOtPMtem Land Ogictt.
[H.o»R.
lus IMjb. On this principTa, therefore, ecMiBult-
bg lU due fairness and puolicitf in the sale, and
dividing the tracts so as to accommodate the
(rreatei QUinber of pvirch§£ers in the m&rltet. I be-
imt we shall mn no risk of doing wrong in Bring-
ing these lands to Bale.
Much has been said about speciilators and set-
deis; a good deal about laying out the lands ii^
particular divisions to suit emigrants from differ-
ent Slates ; but, howcTer laudable I consider the
riews of gentlemeti who have supported these
ideas, yet I cannot conceive them as solid as they
nppose. It is immatertal to us who buys the
hnas so we get a good price for ihem. Specula-
ton will probably purchase, because they have
caiHtal, and can aSord to give long credit on the
lands ; but our plaD being to pay off our Debts
most advantageously, we must have the money
soon to effect it. I have, therefor^ oo fears of
qiecniators. Their money laid out m paying off
our I>ebt3. will do as at leasi as mi^ch good as our
lands will do them; for the moment we set our
Debts paid, oirr revenues of seven or ei^ht,mil-
iioDs a year Will be freed, and at our disposal ;
bv this means we shall 6ease to be told that our
TreasniT is empty, and that we roust sell off the
materials of our fricates, because we cannot afford
half a millibn of dollars to finish them. Our roads,
the object of B gentleman from 'Virnnia, can then
be pcTfecled ; and our seamen, the object on
which anather sentleman from New York has
laid a motion before i^oo, wilt receive ample pro-
teeiion. In short, nations, like individuals, are re-
spectable only in proportion to their resources.
Ii oan are released from their actual embarrass-
ments; if our Debts are paid, and our revenues
l«fl at otir diBposal, a few acres in the wilderness
irill have produced the great blessings of peace,
anion, and reEpectability, on the Atlantic, and the
indep^dence and sovereigacy of our countir will
be, as it oucbt, properly asserted. For such pur-
posea 1 think it worth while to employ the present
moment of avidity to specolate in our lands, so as
to clear off our Debts and produce a nett revenue
u> (MR Treasary. to be employed to the most aalu-
taiy purposes of ioternal improvement and of ex-
terior defence.
Mr. DiTTON said, if he approved of the princi-
ple, he sbonld not approve of the Ioom manner in
which the proposed amendment was drawn up.
If th« {oiociple recommended in the resolution
was adopted, tracts should be marked byceriain
linea or boundaries ; but as he disapproved of the
principle, be shoold not dwell upon the form of
the lesolutioD- He thought the argnments of the
movermoresneciousthansdid- Even- one would
■ee thai by limitiiiK the price of the land, the
onaoiity was also hmited. The settlement of
ttnd, he raid, iocreased the value j but if pnr-
chasm be confiDed to a certain situation, no value
will be put upon land five hundred miles distant.
if the pato or the committee be adopted, he said,
l/f the Jand will iacrease in value. Land con-
ligaoat to a settlement now not worth a ddlar an
«re wiU li**" *>* wo"'' »wo dollars. Every year
■ Oitk qaantiij of lutd ean be brought iM« the
market. Mr.D.didnotonderstand whatthemover
meant by fixing settlements in different quarters
of the land to suit different parts of the United
States:
Mr. Habpbb explained.
Mr. NioaoL^B said it was necessary to throw
land enough into the market to meet the demand.
He said they had not only land to dispose of, bnt
Ibey had a million and a half acres of such luid
as could not be found anywhere else, and if they
should limit purchasers to certain districts of the
country, where there is good and bad land, if only
one-fifth be good, foui-ffiiha of purchoKers will be
diMouraged. If inducements, said he, are to be
held out, they mast be such as cannot be resisted.
Sfippose, he said, they were successful in selling
one and a half miLbn of acres on the fronlicra.
nothing would be added to the value of the land
in the interior countiv. The demand for good
landi he said, woold be certain, and all the rest
would become so by settlement With respect
to civil izatioii, so much dwelt on by the mover of
the amendment, be had so little theory on the
subjiect, that he should not have thought of intro-
ducing iL He lived, he said, where Government
scarcely showed its arm, and there seemed to be
no defect. The ^ople were jusL orderly, and
happv ; and yet this State was settled in the way
which was described as iotrOduciog nothing but
disorder.
Mr. Oallatis said, there were two coosidera-
tioos which favored the mover's principle of bring-
ing forward only a limited quantity of land at a
lime for sale, which were the self-interested land-
hoUers, and the fear of too great ao emigration
from the Atlantic States to this country. He dweh
a considerable time in remarking on these two dif-
ferent views, and concluded with dissenting from
the amendment in its present form.
propriety of the remarks of tbe gentleman from
Pennsylvania [Mr. Swahwioe] relative to the
funds, derives all its force from the praeticability
of immediately raisins a sufficient sum of money
from tbe sale of the lands, in order to going into
the market now while the funds are low ; but he
conceived that no.gentleman had an idea that this
conld be suddenly done. The diminntiou of the
Fablic Debt is a most desirable object ; but an im-
mediate operation to this purpose, frofn this source,
was a thing quite out of the question.
He next noticed the remark of Mr. Davtoh, re-
lative to sparse settlements. He said the gentle-
man's reasoning might apply to a comparatively
small territory, bnt applied to a territory ot
twenty millions of acres, was lost. The gentle-
man had reference to By mmes's' purchase, a tract
of about 1,300,000 acres, settled by about 5,009
families. That tract had appreciated in value in
consequence of tbe sparse settlement. But extend
the idea to twenty millions of acres, and twenty
times five thousand families would form bnt a
thin settlement of the country supposed to be laid
open.
His amendment, however, ogieed in some mea~
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HISTOHT OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Lorn to tht CUy of if tuhmgtoin.
<rf'aBMn
or four giAad eentnl points, round
wfiich seitlenieDU may be extended to eeTtaia
limits. Mr. H. added many other obKirations
in support of bis ameadmeDt, which he defended
with great ability and ingeDUity.
The motion being pat oQ the amendment, it
was lost.
The third seclioo of the bill being read, Mr.
Harpbr said there was a neceotity of striking out
some words in order to accommodate it to the
amendment passed yesterday.
Mi. WiLLiJiHB moTcd an amendment to have
the lands sold by auction, in order to bring the
question before the House.
Mr.'NicB0i.tB proposed a moiion to supersede
that of the last member to nearly the same efiect.
After sereral observations from different mem-
ben, principally in favor of a sale by auction, the
Committee rose, reported progress, and asked leave
Mondat, Pebniary 23.
The committee to whom was referred a bill
originating In the Senate, for the amendment ol
an act to encourage Useful Arts, report as their
opinion, that it would be inexpedient and impoli-
tic to pass the said bill into a law.
The report was ordered to lie on thp table. '
Mr. Heath proposed to the House a resolucioo
to the following effect :
" Haolved, Thai until a Stenognplwi be sppointed,
at farther proiuian made for taking the debates of this
House, no printer be permitted to pobllah abetrscti of
Ae Speedies of membeia, unices permitted by the mem-
ber* meking the same."
Ordered to lie on the table.
WASHINGTON'S BIRTH-DAT.
Mr. W..8111TH moved that the House adjourn
for baU* an hour.
This motion occasioned a good deal of conver-
sation upon its propriety. In favor of it, it was
said, that it had been a practice ever since the
commencementofiheGovernmeotgfor that House
o make a short adjournment on'that day in order
that the House would adjourn at 13 o'clock
usual. Ontheother haod.it wasobjecledthatit m
the bosineaaof Che memWs of that House first ._
do their duty, and then attend to the paying of
eomplimeDts ; that jUst at that time the house of
the PnEBiDiicr was filled with militia and others:
and that, therefore, it would be belter, upon the
whole, to wait upon the pRBBinsMT after the '
siness of the day was finished.
Mr. Gallatin moved that the words " half an
hour" be struck out.
The sense of the House wis first taken on the
amendment, which was lost, without a division.
The motion was then put and negatived, being
38 for it, and 50 against it.
LOAM TO THE CITY OF WABHINOTON.
It was moved that the unfinished busineBs of
Friday be laid aside^ to take up the consideralian
of the bill authorizing a loan for the use of the
City of Washington.
The resolmieu being carried by a vote of forty-
eight against thirty-four, the House formed itself
into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. Mublek-
HERQ in the ChHir, aud the first seclion of the bill
being read, and also the resolution of the House
authorizing the committee to bring in the bill-
Mr. StntT wished to know why the committee
had deviated from the principles contained in the
resolution directing them to btiug in the bill
By this bill the buildings in the City of Wtsk-
inglon are to be conveyed to the Pbebident op
TBG United Stateb, thotigh there were no in-
structions in the resolution of the House to this
effect.
Mr. Jerehlah Smith said the lota were con-
veyed to the PREBinENT, in order to reimburse
the lohn authorized by the Senate, and as a secu-
rity for the sum to be borrowed bv the President,
in consequence of the present bill.
Mr. Brent said the oill was framed in a mode
which the committee thought best calculated to
carry into execution the resolulioa of the House.
Mr. SwANWiCK objected to the bill on the prin-
ciple, that if the United Stales wcste .to accept a
^ant of the lots in the Federal City, they might,
if they thought proper, afkerwards grant such a
suui as they shoulu suppose sufficient for com-
Sleting the public buildmgs, out of the general
inds i but he was entirely against opening a loan
for the special purpose; first, because he thought
it degrading to the United Slates to have it ob-
served in Europe, or elsewhere, that they could
not complete the buildiogs requisite for their own
immediate use, without making a loan for the
purpose i and secondly, because he had no notion
of superadding to the public fsith any security ot
lots, as it might prove injurious to the United
States to have loans opened in various quarters
on different securities, though ultimately bottomed
Qthe
stock, viz: the credit of the United
n these grounds, he wa.^ for having the
Stales.
billr.
Mr. NicBOLAa offered his obsemlions upon the
bill ; but from the firing of cannon, the beating of
drums, dte., which took )^ce during his speak-
ing, in honor of the Prbbidknt'b birth da^, the
reporter could not hear his sentiments sufficiently
distinct to attempt an abridgement of them.
Mr. 8. Shitb moved that the fourth section ot
the bill offering lots as a security of money bor-
rowed, be struck out as altogether unnecessary.
Mr. Cbabb said the lots were not offered in aid
of the credit of the United States ; but as a se-
curity to them for the money borrowed under
their authority.
Mr. Brbht said, if this section of the bill was
struck out, the object of it would be defeated.
The preceding clau.-^ provides for the conveying
of the lots to the pRBBinBNT as a security for
any sum of money he shall borrow for corn-
ed byGoOglc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
F^ROiST, 1796.]
Loan to the City of Wathington.
[H. or R.
^tug the baUdings. And inroTided the propert;
M BM equal ta the paTment of the money bor-
rowed, the Uaited Stales suanntee the making
good the deficiener. If thli clause were stracl
OQt, ihe lenders of money would have no further
NcnritT, if the buildings were not sufficient
pay. So th&t, after pusing this act, the busim
would remain in the sune rtate it was in before
Ihe Honse took it op. It has been said, that it
woold be dert^tory to the dignity of the United
Stales to offer these lots as a security, in addition
to their own credit ; but, that a person should be-
come dijTepatable by offering loo ample a security,
was a novel doctrine to him ; and that gentle-
nan's ideas of dignity and his, were so opposite,
as not likely to meet. It has been said, that it
will be necessary to open a loan for 600,000 dol-
lars OB the public BccooDt, and he conld
teure the repayment of money re-
ceived by the Comminioners, and it was neces-
sary that the lots should be conveyed to the Pbbs-
iMHT as a guarantee for (be monejr borrowed.
He was, therefore, for the bill remaming in its
present form.
Mx. Swirr thooght the faith of the United
States anffieieni for money tenders, and eipresaed
hb disamobation of the bill in other respects.
Mr. HiLLRODU said, if it would be in order, he
shonld wish to more that tbe Committee rise,
and that the bill be recommitted in order to have
it moulded into a somewhat different form.
Mr. Dattoh wished, as there was matter
lectlr new to him introduced into this bill, that
tfae Committee would rise, that the bill might be
recfmunitied and formed a^eeably to the resolu-
licMi of that Hoiue authorizing it to be brought in.
Mr- JiBKMiAH Bmitb had the greatest respect
for tbe opitiion of the Ust speaker; but could not
see the difference stated by him to exist between
this bill and the resolution authorizing the com-
mitiee to bring it in. This he endeavored to
show at considerable length, and observed, that
the ctMuniittee did not conceive themselves con-
fined to the words, bat to the spirit of the resolu-
Mr. Nicholas justified the form of the bill, as
law would be destroyed altogether.
Mr. Sboowiok wbhed the bill to take a differ-
ent Torm.
Mr. Hadibok did not see any necessity for the
Committee to rise. He thooght the bill coaform-
»bU to the resolution of the House, and sufficient-
ly ntnple in itself.
Mr. SwiPT was for having the bill recommitted.
He wished to know how far a committee had the
power lo deviate from a -lesolaiiou instructing
(hem lo bring in * bill. He said there were new
prineifiea introduced into this bill which he could
aol Mgne to. , , , * . „
Vr 0*vvATtf said there was no necessity for
reeommittiag the biU. If any provisions of the
laU required amendment, the present was tbe
time to amend them. He, therefore, nw no
ground for tbe Committee to rise on that bead.
Mr. Bbbkt was very desirous that a final deci-
sion should be come to on the subject ; as whilst
it was yet pending, the property in the Federal
City was subject to much speculation, the minds
of persons concerned were kept in an unsettled
situation, and tbe season was advancing in which
the Commissionets wished to take steps to for-
ward the Dodertaking. He answered the objec-
tions which had been made against the form of
the bill, and justified the conduct of the commit-
tee. He remarked upon what had been said with
respect to the security offered for the meditated
loan. He acknowledged that the credit of the
United States was good for any amonnt^ and said
that the tots were mtended as a securitv to the
United Stales, and not to the persons woo sub- -
scribed money to the intended loan. '
Mr. B. Smith understood that Ihe Commis-
sioners of the Federal City were to make the
loan in their own name ; but in this bill the Pbbb-'
iDGHT OP THE UNrTED STATES guarantees the
loan, which, he thought, would interfere with the
interests of the United States. He should, there-
fore, vote for a recommitment. The fotirth clause
of tne bilL he thought Useless, and objected to Ihe
making of a loan with a mortgage of lot-t. But
thouf[h he made these objections to the bill, be
was m favor of furnishing money lo complete the
works in this city.
Mr. Habper wished to sugi^esl some ideas by
which the question might be immediately t^en.
The first plan was, that the Commissioners of the
Federal City mortgage the property, and that the
United States should give security ; another plan
was, that the property should be vested in the
United States, and assigned to the PREaioEHT. He
thought the latter plan the best, but it would be
extremely proper that the sense of the Committee
should be expressed. If the motioo, then, for Ihe
Committee to rise could be withdrawn he would
more to strike out certain words, to introduce tbe
proposed amendment.
Mr. 'Giles wished the subject to go before the
committee sffaio; bnt, he said it was necesstuy
they shonld have insiroctions upon which to act,
as tbey could not be guided by a debate of that
Honse only.
Several members calling for a rising of die
Committee, it rose, and asked leave to sit again.
ToBBDAv, February 33.
The Committee of Ways and Means gave in
their report on the revenue laws, which Was twice
read, and ordered to be committed to a Commit-
tee of the Whole House on Tbotaday.
LOAN FOR THE UITY OP WASHINGTON.
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
jaittee of the Whole, on the bill for authorizing
a loan for the use of the City of Washington.
Mr. WitLiAMB proposed an amendment, which,
afler a few observations ftoin Mr. MtrsBAY and
Mr. JBBBitiAB Shitb, was withdrawn.
.dbyGoogle
HISOXJBY OF CONGBfiSS.
H-opR]
Loan to the COf <^ WaAingicn.
[FaBmnABT, 1799.
iit. Varndh said he underatood a motiMi bad
beeo yesterday made to strike out the fourth
dause of tbc billi but the ^ilemau who had
made the motiou not appeariDg in hi* place, he
renewed the motion to strike out that clause.
Mr. Mdrrav thought that clause esseotiai. For
though he believed the lots worth coDsiderably
more than the money proposed to be botrowea,
yet more implicit confidence would be placed on
the security, and it would be a means of acceler-
aiiug the business, if the sauction of the guaran-
tee of the United Stales was added to it.
Mi. Vabhdm objected to the United States
guaranteeing this loan. He did not koow with
any certainty what would be the expense of the
proposed buildings, or the extent of (hem. To
ffuaiantee this loan, was to guarantee what they
. Koew not ; and if ibey guaranteed it, he beliared
they would have the money to pay. He was of
opinion the whole of the buildings necessary for
the use ot Qovemment might be built for a less
flDm than was asked to finish what was already
begun. Why should the United Slates guarantee
this loan 7 Because it would be for the interest
of certain individuals. It would be the inlerest
of the Uniled States to sell the whole of the lots,
and then guarantee a loan. At any rate, before
the United Slates weni into the business, they
ought to know lio what extent they jdedged them-
Mr. Crabb said the fourth section was a neces-
(ary port of the bill, which was to complete a
gieai national object. He could not see, theie-
lore, why it should be objected to. If. indeed,
gentlemen wished to defeat the whole tiueiness,
It would be well for them to declare their inten-
tions at once. It has besa said, if the United
Slates make the guarantee, there is uo security,
but they may have to pay the money. There
was all the security that could be expected — a
vestoient of (he lots. It was laudable to attend
to economy in public aflkirs) but there would be
DO economy in refusing to make the guarantee
required, but the reverse ; as, in that case, the prop-
erty would not sell for one-third of its value; and
if the Government was to be removed there at
the time proposed, the money for completing (he
necessary buildings, would have to be drawn from
the Treasury. He expatiated at considerable
length on the merits of uie bill, and insisted upon
its conformity lo the resolutioa empowering the
committee to bring i( in.
Mr. HiLLBODSE was in some degree of the
tame opinion with the member last up. But he
thought it impossible to draw a bill which should
jMrfectly correspond with the resolution of the
House so frequently referred lo. It had been
said yesterday that it was not possible to frame
a bill more conformable (o the resolution (han
the one now under discussion. To show that
tiiis wai possible, he had drawn npaclanse which
would make the bill in perfect unison with the
resolntion. [He read the clause.] The bilL so
altered, would not tie up the lots so that they
cannot be sold to raise the money. And if this
clause was adopted, the United . States would not
biU.
Mr. W. Ltman was against the Cmunitlec
rising. He wished the sense of the House to be
taken, whether it was in favor of the United
States guaranteeing the loan, or not. He did not
see anything material in the bill whieh was not
in the resolution of the House, except what re-
lated lo public squares.
Ur. MuBRAT said, to strike out the fourth sec-
tion of the bill would he to do violence to the
property in the Federal City. The -first d;iu*e
transfers the pfoperty into the hands of the Pbbb-
iDBNT, and now objections are raised against ibe
clause necessary to complete the business, if
ffentlemeo mean to destroy the bill altogether, ii
^ould be done in a way not to injure the proper-
ty of individualii.
Mr. RuTBERFOBn spoke in favor trf'the bill.
Mr. SwANWtci was in favor of the Commit*
lee's riung for the purpose of recommitting the
bill. He objected lo the bill generally upon the
United Slates together. He asked how the pasa-
ing of (his bill conld give value to the buildings
Dtthe Federal Cityl Is it not already enacted
that Congress shall sit there in the year 1601 1
The value of the lots was to be increased only
by selling thnn to a number of persons. The
city masi owe its prosperity to its peculiar ad van-
tages as a commercial spot, and not from its being
(he Seat of Government. It was, therefore, ihe
interest of the United States lo sell the lots and
induce peojje to settle there. The higher price
(he lots bore, the greater would be the obstacles
to settlement If it was the intention of (he
United States to grant money for the con^letioD
of the building, let the House say so. When it
was first proposed to remove the Government to
the Federal City, it was said that it would be the
inlerest of persons to give lots (o encourage the
Government to come there. The security now
asked for was never contemplated- He had,
however, no objection (o the United States grant-
ing money, but he was against the making of two
loans, one on the credit of the United States, and
another on (hat of (he United States and eevtain
lots.
Mr. Daytoh did not altt^ther like (he present
motion, and be was agains( the form of the bill.
He wished it to he determined, whether the
United States were only to become eventoally^
guarantees for the money borrowed, and whether
on the sale of any lot it should be exonerated
from the loan. Tne property he should wiab to
be placed in the hands of the Cnnmissioners, or
in the Pbebidbnt, to make sale of it.
Mr. Gallatin was against the Committee ris-
ing, and against the bill being recommitted, until
principles be agreed upon on which they ine»n
the bill (o be recommitted. Two or three plans,
directly contrary to each other, are produced, yet
all are in favor of a recommitment. It was ne-
ceesary first to establish the principle. A grntlc-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
362
Febhdabt, 1795. J
Loan to the City qf Waihington
[S-opR.
man had said he had drawn up a clause, which
would completely carry the resplution of the
House into eOecij bat he Ihought ihe bill before
the House more conformable to that resolution
than Ihe clause proposed, which contains a differ-
ent principle. He wishetl, therefore, that the
frentfeman would withdraw his motion, for the
purpose of settling the priijciple.
Mr. HiLLHOusE had do objection to withdraw
bi$ motion.
Mr. Jebemiab Smith thought it would be eco-
nomical in the United States to guarantee the
Loan. He thought the substitute offered for a
clause of the bill more defectiTe than the one it
wasmennt
would not .^.^
the money borrowea; and the
thought they could not do better than place the
proiwrly under the direction of the PHEeiDENTj
but if it was thought too heavv a burden to be laid
upon him, the business might be placed in the
hands of the Secretary of Stale or Secretary of
the Treasury.
Mr. S. Smith said, the House was willing to
give its responsibility; the way of doing it, was
the matter coniendeji for. If the fourth clause
had been agreed upon to be struck oul, he' should,
hare _ introduced another in its place, tf the bill
remained in its present stale, he said, the United
Stales cannot sell the lots ; the people, therefore,
who go there, must purchase of speculators, who
may ask what price tney please. It has been said,
to strike out the fourth section would be to destroy
the bill ; if bo, he would not vole for it. If the
fourth section were struck out, he would return
to the s«coiid,Biiif iBakes(xiiealierhtioiiinit,ioas
lo pledge the laith of the United States. It was
ridiculous, be said, to think of mortgaging lots for
the money to be borrowed ; there was no occasion
for a counter-security to the faith of the United
Stales. Tlte bill, in its present form, was calcu-
lated lu advance the price of the lots for the inte-
rest of spcculatorE. He would have the laith of
the United Stales pledged for the proposed Loan,
".To"
IS a security. He
.ion of Ihe bill, at
iny lots without the consent of the Pre-
aiocNT — at least, that they ought not to do it. He
wished the Loan to be made by the Commission-
ers, with the guarantee of the United States.
Sir. Crabb replied to the arguments of thejlast
speaker, aod noticed what had Ihlle'n from ^r.
SiTANWicK on the snbjecC of tacking the faith of
the United States and the lots ti^etfier. He said
ihal gentleman knew it to be the practice of
bankers to require endorsers lo the notes of men
of the first property, and the guarantee of the
United States was on the same principle. There
would be no uecessity for the guarantee of the
United States, if the property was as well
known in Rurope as it is Known here. He said,
the Hou^« had the assurance of the President',
iliai il the propfrty wjs duly attended tOj il would
b>- worth all the money borrowed. But suppose
4tb Com.— 13
__. __. .._d. the faith of iixe United Slates
was already, pledged, and they were bound to pass
Ihupteseutbill.
Mr. Murray thought it would save time, if the
motion for striking out the fourth section wa^
withdrawn, for the purpose of coosideriag the first
and sec oft d sections.
Mr. Vahndm consented to this, but again cau-
tioned the House against guariinteeing what they
did not know ihe extent of. He believed the
property would not be equal to (he money to be
borrowed; and although the Prbsi dent consider-
ed the properly as of that value, yet it became
them, as a branch of the Legislature, to be con-
vinced'of it also. If it be true that there is money .
endugh in the hands of the Commissioners to com-
plete the buildings, there Is no occasion for this
Mr. Jerem'iab Smith said, the committee 'who
brought in the bill thought, as the United States
were made reeponsible, they ought to have a se-
curity under their immediate control. If this'had
tmt been the case, be should have been against the
bill. He went into an eiptanalion of the nature
of the Federal City properly, 'and showed th^t
gentlemen were mistaken when they said that the
United Stales had already the properly in their
hands ; they had uo control over it. and could iiot
prevent the Commissioners from alienaiing it, but
if this bill pass, they will hare that power, and
security for the Loan proposed to be negotiated.
Mr. Dayton conceived the object of reconsider-
ing the first and second clause wa«Io reconcile two
opposite principles inttoduced} this, he said, might
be done by moviiig to strike out a part of the fitit,
or a pan of 'the second clause ; tie thought the
latter would he the best.
Mr. HiLLHOusB wished to move lo strike out the
first section, in order lo introduce another, which
be read, f^r guaranteeing only a part, instead of
the whole Loan. He thought the business should
gtiU remain in the hands of the Commissioners.
Mr. OiLEa thought the plan proposed by the
member from 'New Jersey best adapted to taking
the sense of the House.
Mr. Dayton proposed an amendment to the
second section, which went to the pre v en ling of
lots being mortgaged, and to enable the President
to sell them.
Mr. Jeremiak Smith would not oppose the mo-
tioa, though he thought there was no necessity
for It, ail he believed the Prebidest would have
the same power as the bill stood,
Mr. Bbfnt said, it was the wish of the com-
millce that the property might remain in the hands
of the President, lo he disposed '>ras he tbou^t
proper; but as different members seem to think
jhe property wift not be at sufficient liberty to be
sold, by the bill as it stands, he should vote for the
amendment. It had been said, by a member, that
before he voted for the bill, ne should wish for
Inforraalion respecting the eateat of the intended
Loan, dtc. If that scjitlcman had attended to the
documents laid before the House, he would hni e
.d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.J
hotui to the City of Wtuhmgtoa.
[FsBRDARv, 1796.
seen accouDls of all ihe manef received aod ex~
peoded, and bow much was necessary In complete
the busioess. He may. therefore, be easy an that
subject. It had been laid. if the lots be a sufficient
■uretf for the Loan, why guaraiilee it? At pres-
eot, be said, (hey were Dot suSicieDt. Mr. B. ob-
served, that (he bill before them would be con-
sidered as the touchstoae to determine whether
the Seat ol QoTeroment will go to the banks of
the Potomac, or not. Motives of policy aod econ-
omv, and objections to iocreaiing the Public Debt,
will not apply in this case. The very act nrovides
funds tOKuaraotee the Loan; for though ine prop-
erly, unli! (he proposed Loan be guaranteed, would
sell for a mere trifle, when it is guaranteed it will
aell for a great price. So great a diSerence would
it make, that he believed property which will then
sell for two millionn of dollars, would not other-
wise be worth one hundred thousand dollars. If,
therefore, sentlemen are against the bill from
econoraicaT views, they are mistaken; for. it was
his opinion, tbe property would not only pay off
the Loan, but evehtually be a considerable fund
towards the discharge of the Public Debt. It had
been suggested that the United Stales were under
no obligation to make this guarantee. He thought
differently; he believed the credit of (he tJniied
Slates materially concerned. Tbe public have
relied fully upon the couuVenance of Government
in this business; many persons, indeed, have made
great sacriGcen to procure lots in this new city,
and if, after holdini; out tcraplations to people.
Government should not go there at the proposed
time, all these persons will be ruinrd, aod a slain
will be laid upon tbe national character. He
hoped, therefore, no objection would be made to
carryioir tbe bill into effect.
Mr. Sedowfck could not assent to the proposed
amendment. He had no objection to the guaran-
tee, but he did not consider the United States as
under any obligations to provide accommodations
for the Government in the Federal City. The
friends of the act wben it passed, every one who
was present at the lime must remember, di.-<elaim-
ed all intention of calling on Government for this
purpose; he could not conceive, therefore, with
the, trentleman who .spoke last, that tbe fHilh of
iheUnited Stateswa^any way pledged. Motives
of accommodation would, however, influence him
to vole in favor of the guarantee. But he was
against Ihe amendment ; as, if the funds proved
inadequate, every one would look lo Oovernmeai
to make good the deGciency. He was willing to
guarantee the loan of halfa million. To pinlge
the United States for the whole of the deficiency,
if ever so great, he was not willing.
Mr. MtJBRAV thought the objection of Ihe last
speaker might be done away with by an attention
to tbe third seeiion of tbe bill, which says the
President shall sell ihe lots, to make good tbe
Loan, He hoped the amendment would pass.
Mr. Gallatin said, an objection was made to
the amendmi^Qt, becnusc it wns a deviation from
the orizinat law. We are told, s,Tid be, of a sort
of contract, and raemhrrs are called upon In re-
collect the conditions. He should, howtver, follow
the law. It is said, that Uovernmeat shall be at
such B place, ia tucb a year; but if they change
Ibeir mind, they may establish Government where
they please. The question is, whether the law is
to be carried into effect or not. He believed thej
had the power to determine this- The taw says
the Government shall be transferred at a certain
time ; bv another law, certain buildings are to be
erected oy the PHEStnENT. The law musL there-
fore, either be carried into effect or repealed. The
amendment under coDMderaiion, Mr. G, said,
placed the Loan on the credit of the United States,
and not on tbe lots. It was possible they might
have occasion to borrow monejron public account,
and it would be an awkward circumstance to have
two different kinds of Loans. By this amend-
ment, the pREaiDEHT has also the power to sell
the lots when he pleases, and either pay off the
Loan with the money or deposite it in the Trea-
sury. He was, therefore, for the amendment.
Mr. SEnawiox explained.
The Coma>ilte« now rose, and asked leave to sit
WEDNEsnAT, Pefamary 34.
Alexanueh D. Orr, from Kentucky, appeared)
was qoalified, and took his seat.
Mr. HiLLBonaB, of tbe committee to whom it
vras referred to bring in a new bill for regulating
intercourse with tbe Indian tribes, and for preserv-
ing peace with the Indians, pre^iented a bill; which
was read a first and second time, and ordered to
be committed to a Committee of the Whole on
Monday next.
LOAN TO THE CITT OF WABHINOTOH.
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whiile, Mr. Mublgnbero in the
Chair, on tbe bill for authorizing a Loan for the
use of the Federal City-
Mr. Swirr ob^ierved, it had been said that tbe
fate of the bill depended upon the fdbrth section;
be thought not. He was ready to guarantee the
Loan, but would have the money obtained oti the
tots, aod the faith of the United States pledged
only for any deficiency whicb nii^ht remain event-
ually. He wished to keep the United States as
detached from tbe subject as possible, by letting
it remain in the same channel which was intended
by the original act. The CommissioDers might
then proceed as usual. If this plan was adopted,
he would move not lo strike out the words pro-
posed to be struck out; as, when the principle
was Bi^tiled, he should wish tbe bill to be recom-
mitted.
Mr. Havehs did not think the motion for strik-
ing out rerlatn words of great importance. He
saw no impropriety in borrowing monev on lots j
he did not think money lenders would be influ-
enced in any consider.ible degree by the lots being
in the security; but if it was the Offinion of a ma-
jority of members, that this would be the better
plan, he should not object to it.
Mr. Dayton said tbe words moved to be atruck
out were certainly of consequence, as they admit-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Fi»D«Br,1796.]
Loan to the CUy of WatkingUn.
[H.OpR.
ted of (vo «0(Mtnic(ioiu. If ifae Bmeadmenl look
place, he said, the United SiKtes would not be
pledsed,Mliad beeo «tated, to finish the buildings;
ill (hejr wouIj be pledged for would be to make
^d BDf deficieocjr which Iheie migbi be before
the ram g-uaruileed bjr ibe preKDt bill and the
RtnoDDi of the sale of the lots. If, indeed, tbe lots
produce more money than will pajr off the Loan^
tben the surplus might be applied to tbe finisbing
of other buildiogi; but he did not eonsider the
Uailed States pledged \>j ibe pceaeot bill to a
greater Bmount than the lum with which tbe
Dbnk in the bill would be filled up.
Mr. Swcrr said, his wish was thai tbe business
ihould go on in the hands of tbe Commissioners.
V. heretofo re. This bill, he said, changes the
arigioBl principle of the plan, by placing tbe whole
of the propeny in the hands of^Ihe United Stales,
leaving it with them lo complete the bnilding^.
When once tbit is determined, he said, the United
States might consider the Federal Ciiv as a child
of their own ; and the moment it ta Knowo that
tbe Qorernmeni bas interfered in the matter,
every expense attending it will be increased; This
was a necessarjp consequence, and ought to be
guarded Bgainsl.
Mr. Williams was in farorof ibe buildings re-
maining in the hands of the Commissioners. He
could wish to laove, in order to have an iniportant
principle decided upon by tbe committee, that the
words " the pREainaiiT of thr United States"
be eipuagcd. Until this was decided upon, he
nid, they might go on from day i« daT. without
naking any prepress in the business. [On being
informed by ibe Chairman that his motion was
not in order, Mr. W. proceeded to remark gene-
rally.] Htf said it was imprudent to go farther
than the origiaal law intended. When business
of this sort, be said, is taken up by public bodies,
there is no end of the expense, it bad been said,
great economy had been nsed by tbe Commis-
lioners; he did not think wo. He called for tbe
reading of a paper, which lay on the Clerk's table,-
•tatingthe expense already incurred; which being
read, he remarked, that tor the single article of
•urreying aloae, more than twenty-two thousand
dollars had been paid. It had been computed, he
he said, that 700,000 dollars would complete the
contemplated buildings, but when the high price
of materials and labor were considered, most
geailemen would think with him that il would
require three times that sum. ll was calcu-
lated, he said, the other day. that two hundred
thousand dollars woi'Jd complete the buildings fi>r
the reception of Congrens. There were now lots
lold to the amount of three hundred thousand
dollars; but it is supposed there will he a failure
io ihi.' payment ol this sum; but it Itas not been
•laled why. I.i it right, said he, for Qj/ernmeut
to interfere in this busiocia, to advance the value
of property purciiag^d by iodiridualj on specula-
lion T When thef legislated, he said, they should
lejii^ate with their eyes open. A gentleman had
*jid, that members who oppoied the bill Wiiuld do
welt to throw off the cloak ; he winheil the cloak
to be ihrown off on all sides. But we are told
that if we do not give energy to this business the
public will not have assurance that the OoTetn-
ment will be removed to the Federal Cit][ at the
appointed time. There was no ground for this
'remark, as the original act stood unrepealed, and
he hoped would remain so. He wished to keep
that act in view, and not vary from it. He taid
the public buildings hadbeen begun upona wrong
principle — upon a plan much too magnificent;
they -were more so than any palace in Kurope:
they would cost a inillion of dollars more than
calculated. And, said he. ererjrthing most be in
proportion : the officers wno go into those palacca
must hare their salaries proportioned lo the gran-
deur of their habitations.
Mr. Williams supposed be should be tdld this
land was a gift — but where is the gifti Was not
^ry other lot reserved to the proprietors? and
not these lots now more valuable than the
whole was when it was Srst laid out for a cilyl
It bad been resolved, he said, that the permanent
Seat of Government should be in this cily, and be
was wilKng il should be so. He did not think
with some members, that by keeping tbe lots in
band they would increase in value ; he thought
the contrary. He wished the House would agree
f) complete the public buildings alone; for, he
believed, the instant the United States guaranteed
a loan they would have il to paV; and he did not
ibtok it right to engage in any thing likely to in-
crease the public debt. He thought the best plan
3uld '«> to sell the whole of the lots whilst they
ill bring a high price — be should not object,
however, to a reasonable guarantee, but would,
by no meaus consent to the United Stales taking
the business wholly iolo iheir own hands.
Mr. Dbarbobm said, there appeared a reluctance
ffive the House the documents relative to the
public buildings. The committee, he said, should
receive some informaiioo on the subject of the
money due on account of lots sold, with respect
to a part of it being doubtful.
Mr. Brent believed, if the gentleman examin-
ed the memoiial of the CommissioDers, he would
Snd the papers alluded to. Tbe Commissioners
who made sale of the property, he said, were not
now tbe Commissi oners. The contracts they made
were HUpposed to be sood at that time. The first
stipulalcd payment had been made, the second
liail been some time due, and was not paid. There
was, therefore, reason to believe there would be
some failures. It was one of Ihe conditions of
these contracts, thai a certain number of houses
should be buiU in a given time. Part of these
houses have been erected ; he believed there were
nearly 300. There is no danger, ther^-fore. he
said, if the purchasers should not cotnplete their
contract, of there being any eventMl loss; but^in
tho meantime, immediale resoBtees are wanting
to prosecula ihe buildings in band.
Mr. Giles wished this subject might be treated
with candor. He hoped gentlemen who were op-
|H>sed to the principle of the' bill, would allow the
committee to form as unobjectionable a bill as
ihey were able. He thought it unfiiir to prevent
a tbiug being brought into as perfeot a slate a*
.d by Go Ogle
369
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orB.]
Loan to Ae City of Watkii^iton.
[FcBBDABi;, 1706.
posaible, by atteiupuae to dettroy-il. When the
Dill has received its final shape^entlemen could
thea object to it if they chose. The preMnt ques-
tion was on the striking out of cerlaiQ words,
which he did-QOtthiaktaaterial. Theargumeuts
in favor of striking; oul on the ground of a double
constiuctioD, had some weight, but he did not
think the objeciioQ valid. The guataiitee, said
he. will be suEGeient to satisfy every purchaser ;
hut it wa« said, the object of this motion was to
reconcile diSereot opiuions ; if that could be done
he had no objection to it.
Mr. Gii^a wlabed to remark od what had fallen
itwa a member from PennityWanJa yesterday,
with respect to (he law providing for the removal
of the Seat of Oovernment. That law, he said,
differed from all others. The Constitution, itself,
he said, preEcribes the rule, the act only fixes
the spot where it should be carded into effect.
The act is, therefore, not repealable. The Con-
stitution does not give a power to fix upon two
spots, but upon one spot. He ihousht it necessa'
ry to make this remark, lest he might be supposed
to countenance the opinion he comoated. it had
been remarked that it would be in some degree
degrading to the United Stales to borrow money
on the credit of lots ; be thought differently, and
showed that it was a common thing in Govern-
ments to borrow money on different funds. It
had been wished to disconnect the Government
from the business. Whilst Government guaran-
teed the loan, he said, it would make no difference
whether the loan was bottomed on the lots or
otherwise. The nature of the engagement was
the same. The question was whether the House
would agree to guarantee the loan, or not.
Mr. S^ANWicE explained whai he had said
the nature of loans, justifying his remarks on the
impolicy ofgoiog to Amsterdam to borrow money
to complete a building for their Legislature to
meet in.
Mr. Venable did not feel the delicacy of the
mamber who spoke last, on the subject of borrow-
ing money to carry into effect the present bill.
He believed that gentleman was not disposed tc
■" '' * " ; required; but he thought the
the lots. If this was the
supersede the present motion by striking out the
first and second clauses, to substitute another in
their place, and amend.ihc third section; this will
have the wished-for effect; the House may fill
up the blanks as it pleases, and it will probably
never hear of -the subject again in a Legislative
way, except in case of a final deficiency.
Mr. Giles hoped the amendment prapoied
would aecomuioiiate gtullcrnen wim yvistuj to
disconnect th^ iGoverameiit from the busioess.
He, however, thought it a strong reason for Go-
vernment's having soraeihing to do in the com-
pletion of the buildings, that it might have sume
control over the management of them. He had
seen, and was acquainted >vith. the buildings car-
rying on in the FedemI City. He thought the
house erecting for the residence of the President
was much loo magnificent, much more so than
_ iatanded. .Jlvery one tbog^t so whosaw it.
But this wa» no reason for obstructing the pio-
1 (^ the business. He hoped the bill would
jimed in a manner so as to meet the general
sense of the House. Though he had objected to
the grandeur of the house intended for the Presi-
dent, he would have tl>e huildines for Congress
erected on a grand scale, and fitted for the Repre-
sentalivee of a great and free people.
Mr. Sebswics said, he had seconded the mo-
tion, because it was in conformity to ifaa original
act. It undertakes only to guarantee the defi-
ciency between what the l6ts sell for, and the
sum to be borrowed. Thus far he was wiHin^ to
guarantee, and thought this ths mostunobjeclion-
abU way of doing it.
Mr. SiTQRBAVES observed, that a member had
said that it was uncandid to obstruct the commit-
tee in their endeavors to make the bill as perfect
as possible. He said it was his design to oppose
the bill in Xoto. There was, however, an objec-
tion to- the present motion, which he thought it
important to make. He said, if the lots were
conveyed le Commissioners, there was no occa-
sion for the Legislature to pass an act to enable
them to borrow money; hut he understood the
conveyance had been made in trust; if so, these
trusts could not be interfered with by the Legis-
lature, they could not be altered. If they were
conveyed to be told, they cannot mortgage,
nor can jhis Hoose give them authority to do so>
Even if the Commissioners could be enabled to
mortgage, the one design is incompatible with the
other. The idea of borrowing on mortgage is
inconsistent with the sale of the lotii.
Mr. Dayton !<aid, the con veyuices were made
in conformity to the original act for the use of
the United States; of conr«c it was necessary to
authorize the Commit^ tmers to make any loan ;
that BUthorily must go from this Honse. The
question is, whether it is best to place the pro^r-
ty in rhe hands of the PaEBinBUT or the United
States, orleliiremaininthehands of the Commis-
sioners; hethoughiihe former the best as it wonld
be in the power of the Pbebeoent so to manage
the loan as that it might not interfere with any
lien made for the use of Government. With re-
spect to the«bjeciion respecting mortgages, it was
the same which he had already made, and wonid
be removed by the amendment.
Mr. SiToRCAvea wasnol perfectly satisfied with
respect to his objections, and wished thf Commit-
tee to rise. as. before he gave a vote on the sub-
ject, be wished for further informBlian.
After a few observations from Mr. Gileb, Mr.
Havens. Mr. Hhbkt. Mr. Vekablb. Mr. Hili^
[(□USE. Mr, Nri'Hoi.AH. and Mr. jRHiMi.^n Smith.
the Committee rose, and asked leave to sit again.
TntinHDAT, February 313.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr, ScDOWECK presented four different memo-
rials from inhabitants of the second middle dis-
trict, State of Massachusetts, complaining of the
undtte election of JosBpaBsAnLEY Vaenum. Esq.,
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT OP CX)NGHESS.
FBHanAiT, 1796]
Loan totlu CStt/ of Wtuhin^tm
[M.orR.
andpTaying for ftn iDveitigation intottieinattei-
Mr. Varhcih said, thit businera tras perfectly
new to him. Me inquired ibe ninnber of petition-
ers, and was informed that one memoriBt contain-
ed 39 Dames, aootber 13, anotber 33, and another
& He mored that the memorials be referred .to
the Committee of Elections ; which, being se-
conded, was agreed to.
LOAN TO THE CITY OP WASHIMQTON.
Tb<* Hoase resolved itself into a Committee nl
the Whole, on the bill authorizing a loan for thi
use of the City of Waehinglon ; and the motioi
being being put for striking out the first and se
cond sections, in order to introduce another it
their place, it was carried — 42 against 32.
The third section being read,
Mr. Venable moved an amendment, making
the lots an appropriated fund for the repayment
of the loan.
Mr. Jehehiab Smith thought this amendment
would not answer the purpose. By it they
propriate property over which they hare not
aoluie control. He said the fee simple of the pro-
perty wasio the hands of Trustees orCommission-
ers ; that they havp a right to sell, and can make
^ood deeds. There were general words, indeed,
ID the trust designating the use ; yet if these Trus-
tees were not to appropriate the money to the
completion of the public nuildings, the titles which
they had given to the properly sold would not be
injured. There was no way, he said, in which
the United States could hare an absolute sway
jrer the properly, but fay a conreyaoee of it to
lome persm for tnat purpose. For if the Com-
United Stales be obliged to make good the
The United States shonld, therefore, have a con-
trol orer the property before the loan be guaran-
teed. He thought the Bmendment did sot go far
enough. The lots should be conveyed to the Pbb-
8IDEHT, as a fand to answer the ^arantee, which
he should hare the power of selling, wfaeneTer he
pjeased to reimburse the loan. Any bill which
did not give security to the United States, he could
Mr. Vbnable said, the gentleman last up had
mistaken the ground on wbJeh this property was-
hdd. He asserted that the Commissioners were
lubieei to the controlofthepBEainEKTin the sale
of the properly, and that they could not act with-
out him. The conreyance to the Commissioners
was only a eooTeyance in trust. They now come
forward to request the United States to authorize
them to borrow money, which, if they borrow,
they roust take up under the control of the Pre-
aiDEKT. The Commissionei^ it was true, might
abuse their trust, but if they did, they are anvvrer-
able; nor will the abuse of their trust affect the
title of lots sold aeeording to the powers placed
in them. The amendment, he sud, would not at
all alter the ground of the original act.
Hr. Jbrbmiah Smith said, the deed of convey-
ance to the Commissioners was not a deed of
trust, and that Ihe United 9t>.tea had nopropeity
in the lots. He read some clauses of the act to
prove his assertion.
Mr. DwTOHT FoBTER wished to hear the deed
referred to read. [It was read,]
Mr. Giles said, the amendment which had been
introduced into the bi]l, permits the property to
remain in the hands -of the Commissionen ; the
bill, as brought in, proposed to convey the proper-
ty to the pREsioEHT. Objection was made to the
bill in its original form, because it copnected Qo-
Ternmeut in the business. He thought the Qo-
Vernment no more concerned by directing the
PaEBinENT to have the legal,< than his having
the equitable, right to the property. Ail Oovem-
ment does is to guarantee the deficiency. The
only difference baiween the two pUios is, the dif-
ference betwixt the responsibility of the Presi-
dent and the resDonsibility of ttie Cotmnission-
ers. As to the oDJection- that purchasers would
not be ready to hold property sold by the Com-
missionera, it had no weight ; the guarantee would
satisfy every one. He had agreed to the amend-
ment, but if gentlemen thought it material that a
conveyance should be made from the Commis-
sioners to the President, he should not object to
it. He wished thebiU to be so formed, as to meet
general approbation.
Mr. Nicholas believed it was always in the
discretion of the Commisioners to apply the money
they {dcased ; but they eanaot make a title to
ly property without the consent of the Paiai-
:nt of thk United States. He must be as
much a paity as if the lots were vested in him, .
and no purchaser who had not the assent of the
Prbsidbht, has a legal tille. Govern mentWDuld
It have-accepted of the ?rant on other terms.
Mr. Havens thought there wa« a considerable
difference betwixt the original act and the deed
which had been read. He wished to know the
reason of it.
Mr. Dattoh said, that he bad not intended to
have troubled the House again on this subnet ;
but what had fallen from the gentleman from
New Hampshire had alarmed him. That gen-
tleman bad said that the Commissioners had an
abtolute title of the property ; that they could sell
■ as they fdeased ; so that the United States had
right to remove the Commissioners, no right
., the buildings, nor any right to appropriate the
money arising from the sale of lots. If this were
the case, he would never vote for the bill. It has
been also said, that the Commissioners may re-
fuse to sell if they choose ; were this so, it would
furnish another reason for withholding h'
uased. Three different gentlemen held different
opinions on the subject, and be was at a loaa to
decide on the matter.
Mr. HiLLHooBE thoiieht the amendment did
not go far enough ; he dil not think it sufficiently
secured the United States. He would add a pro-
viso, " that, before the lots were conveyed to the
Prbs[1>bnt. no money should be borrowed." He
should wisQ also to have an additional amend-
ment, ia wder to <:4>viate the objectioiu meatiOB-
.dbyGoogle
371
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H-opR.]
lam to the CUy of Waatdngton.
[fBBBOABr, 1796.
ed bf the member from New ietwtj, of the Com-
misnioDers having ^bralule power over thv lota;
and, when the loan u repiia, if anjr toU remain,
tfaev might be reeoavejrea to the Commi^ioaers.
If this Bmendm^m was agceed to, the Prshident
would hare full power over the lots.
Mr. Brent said, Id oider lo conTince the mem-
ber from New York chat the deed which had
been read was ia cooformiiy to the act, be would
read urae clauses of the act. No particular mode
of malting the conveyance is pointed out, but it is
I«f[ to the President op tbe United States to
make such a conTefaoce as he thought best.
This conveyaoee fixes the fee simple of tbe pro-
perly in the bands of the Commissioners, and
from the sale shall be appropriated to the erecting
of buildings for Congress. The amendmeDt is,
therefore, no more than We ou?ht to agree Id.
With respect to what had Alien from a mem-
ber from New Hampshire, that we were legislat-
ing on a subject on which we had no right, Mr.
B. said they had a right Codesigoate the disposition
of the money, when it nball be received by the Prb-
MDENT OF THE Uhited States. By this amend-
ment, it is Mid, (he Commissioners may dis-
pose of the property as they please ; but tbe coa-
■ent of tbe President op the Uhiteo States
is necessary befone any rale can be legitimately
made. He could not, therefore, see any ground
for the fears of gentlemen on this head.
Mr. SwiPT moved that tne Committee rise.
They were come, he said, to an important ques-
tioo on the title of the land. Some members say
it is in the pBEiiDGirr, others in the Commi^ioo-
ers, who have sold lobi witboul the coDient of the
Fhesident. The House had beard the deed read,
bat it was a matter that could not.be determined
upon in a moment; it required to be examined.
If tbe motion for the Committee's rising was car-
ried, he ihould wish the bill to be referred backlo
Mr. Bbght hoped tbe Committee wontd not
rfte, but proceed with tbe consideration of the
bill. He could not help thinking that tbe procras-
'- -'n of this business did not atise so much
MiK, us from a dislike to the bill itself.
Mr. Chabb said, (he House had already deli-
berated a long time upon this business. If (he
bill contains a guarantee, Ibat is all thai is want-
ed. If the House will not agree to this, let the
bill be thrown out at onea. Clauses had been
objected to which were immaterial. If gentle-
men would show themselves in their proper co-
Iots, (bey might be me( on proper grounds ; at
present they could not. A gentleman hod said
yesterday he blushed on aoconiK of the magnifi-
evnce displayed in the public buildings carrying
on in the Federal -City, and hinled that no gift
bad been made to Oovernment by cer(ain States ;
bvt, he said, (he public buildinpt would be an
honor to the country ; and, if he will refer to the
Joaraals of the Legislatures of Vii^ioia and Ma-
lyUad, he will £nd that each of those States have
granted a considerable sum in money towards
erec(iBg the public buildings.
Mr. NicHOLAB wished tbe CommiKee lo rise,
in order to reconsider (he business.
Mr. QiLea said, (here was a proprie(y in rcfer-
ting the bill to a select committee, as he thought
they might be able to bring in a bill which would
meet the wishes ot (he Hou».
The Committee rose, and the House refused it
leave to sil again. The bill was then agreed to
be recommitted, and (hat four addiiioOBl mem-
bers be added lo the select committee to whom it
was referred ; and Mr. BRbht wuihing to decliae
to act again on (he'committee, a member was
voted for in his stead.
AMERICAN SEAMEN.
The report of (he CDmmi((ee (o whom wan re-
ferred (he resolution which passed the House on
Friday, resppctin? the case of American seamen,
was rcaJ a. lir^i i^Qd second time, and oiJercd to
be committed to a Committee of the Whole on
Monday.
The report states, thai tbe facts relative to
the sufferings of American seamen are too noto-
rious to need reference (o par[iculBr cases, and re-
plen 10 be adopted (o afford them re-
I that
ageni! i
i( Indiei
mquir.
■. (he
of
,ea ; to release such as they are
ableto release, afford relief to others, and leara
(he namber of cidzens who have been illeKaUr
seized; and iha( proper offices be opened to wbicn
all American seamen may apply to obtain cetlifi'
LOAN TO THE CITY OF WASHINGTON.
Mr. Dearborn moved a resolution to the fol-
lowing effect : " Tha(' (he commiKee to whom ia
referred the bill authorizing a loan for the use of
the City of Washington, be instructed to ioqaire
whetOer any, and what, alterations ought to be
made in the plans of the buildings intended for
public use at tbe permanent Seat of Qoremmeat
of the United Stales, and make their report
thereon."
Mr. Murray hoped (he resolution would not
be agreed to. The buildiofra bad progressed to-
wards such a state of finishmg as to put it nut of
Ihe power of any one, without great waste of
money, lo make alterations in them. And, Ehougb
gentlemen tnay see faults in the plans, or think
the buildings too magnificent, yet, as they had no
ment, what reason is there for the inquiry ? No
money ia asked, either of this House or of the
United Slates; and it would be, therefore, im-
proper to undo what has been done by two States
who have made large donations for this purpose.
What, then, can be the object of this motion 7
Nothing can be done, except gendemen can point
10 any error which can be rectified. And though
he admitted these buildings were the property oT
(ho Uaited State*, yet (here Was a delicacy in in-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGHESS.
PBBHnARY, 1796. 1
Zjoon to the City of Wathtngton.
[H-ofR.
terfering in a matter in which (hey had not ex-
peaded any money. He hoped, therc^fore, (be re-
■olutioa woald not be agreed to.
Mr. Dearborn taid^ that if the commiltre
found, upon due ezamioation, that noalierstioa
can be made wilJi propriety in the public build-
ings alluded to, they would report accordingly.
Hoff tliese Tacls were it was at preseat uncertain.
As to the qneatioQ of delicacy, he said, if ihe bu-
siness had gone on without application to them, it
would have been improper to have interfered ia
it; but, as the assistance of Goreiament was
called for, he thought it became that House to
make the proposed inquiry. If the plan was :iucb
as it would be impolitic to carry into effect, ft
would iofliieace his vole on the subject; but if
the plan was such as he approved, it would be
otherwise. There could be no danger in making
the inquiry.
Mr. Chjlbr thought the proposed inquiry very
improper. The law, said ne, hss appointed tlie
Pbebident op the Uniteu State? to manage this
business. Suppose the iaquiry were to take place,
and the buildiuKs are found on too large a scale,
shall they be pulled down, and smaller noes erect-
ed?. If gentlemen were indulged, where would
(heir inquiries end 7 He read the Message of the
Pbesident to the HoiAe on the subject, whereLo
he says the sale of tne lots will be equal to the
expense of the building<i. It would be well, he
aaid, if gentlemen would gnin a little more in-
formBtion on subjects, before they brought them
forward. If this bad been the case, he thought
much of the debate which had occupied the House
for MTeral days might hare been saved.
Mr. Dbibbocih acknowledged he laclced inform-
ation, but that he had attempted, without effect, to
gain it from his accuser.
Mr. BoDBNBdid not see why the proposed re-
solution should not be agreed to. Considerable
information had come on tin the course of the de-
bate on tbe subject of the public buildings, and
more might be got. It appeared to be a subject
of doubt whether the House have or have not the
power of cuQlTol over these building?. The ques-
tion is worth inquiry. If the committee thought
an interfeteace necessary, their report would be
•o framed. He believed much opposition to the
bill for anthorizing the loan bad arisen from ob-
jections to the exIravaeaBt style of building em-
ployed in the Federal Citjr.
Mr. MtjRBAT said, he did not think the resolu-
tion wns worded as if it was intended to gaiti in-
formation. He said the public buildings had been
erected under the control of the Prebioekt, and
according to plans, as be understood, Srst submit-
ted to him. And, if he has acted legally and con-
sistently, if he has not exceeded the powers giren
him, wDjr should the- House interfere in the busi-
ness? He believed the trust had been performed
in the best manner, if the object of the resolu-
tion bad been to learn how far certain buiUingii
were progrested, or other information, he should
not have objected to it ; but could not agre^ to it
in its present form.
Mr. Tbatcbbb wished to know if the eommit-
logs too large, ihey were ti
on an end, or, if not large
tee found thebnildin
divide ther
enough, enlarge them ? The resolution appeared
to give a greater latitude to the committee than
he thought the mover intended. It would be dif-
ficult to form a judgment of the boildincs unless
they were in possession of the original plans.
Mr. Giles thought the committee should report
facts to the House, and not their opinion, relative
to the state of the public buildings at the perma-
nent S?at of Gtovernment. He had a resolution,
whieh he thought might be substituted in place
of the one proposed.
Mr. Dearborn said, tbe resolution just read
did not go to the length he wished. He wished
that if the house erecting for tt^e Prbbident
should be thought loo large that it might be made
the Capitol, and erect another in its stead, and
on to guarantee a loan to complete the public
buildings in the Federal City. It was proper,
therefore, that they should examine what naa
been done and what remains to be done. This
subject has been before the House several days.
New facts have been developed, and it was neces-
sary to make inquiry in order to mature the busi-
ness. A gentleman had said the subject was al-
ready in very high and respectable hands; not-
withstanding this, he had himself been upon the
spot, and could say he had found plans had been
frequently changed. Seeing, therefore, that the
plan was not at first perfect, he saw no impro-
priety in vesting the inquiry' in a committee.
How caa this House go into a guarantee without
knowing the necessary facti relative to these
buildings? The House will not he bound by the
commiiiee's repori, but will act as they please.
Many alterations may be made in what i^ not fin-
ished. This HoQse, before now, has not interfer-
ed in (he sutiject ; but now the stale of'the caje
is altered — Government is called upon for a guar-
antee, and information is necessary.
Mr. Qtleb said, if the object or the resolution
had been information, he should not have object-
ed to it. He would ask the geotleman from Penn-
sylvania what effect the opinion of Ihe select com-
mittee would have on him? He wished the gen-
tleman who proposed the resolution would con-
sent to have the one he had read substituted in
its place, and suffer the opiniin to be the result
of facts.
Mr. Gallatih said, it did not appear to him
that the resolution proposed to be substituted in
place of the one moved, included all the ideas of
the mover. He supposed the committee would
not only report their opinion, but the facts on
which it was grounded. He saw no impropriety
in incorporating both resolutions into one. The
objections against the motion are not well-found-
ed. It is staled that we have no control over the
building*, because the land was given by certain
States, and because they have been erected under
the direction of the Prebioent. But though
grants have been made by inditiduals, the whole
of the value remlu from the Oovemmen( being
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HISTORY OF CONGBfiSS.
376
H.opR.l
Compen$alion to Membert.
[FBBBnABV,17(i6.
fixed (here. The discreliooary power was exclu-
sively veiled in the Phesidekt. Il was subject
to one check; it not only gare him the power,
but made it his duly to attend to it. The grants
Dot proving EuScieiit,a demand is made either
to give motley or guarantee a loan. Money be-
ing asked, another check must be introduced, to
say how far these buildings shall go. This House
has a right to inquire not only the past expense,
bat what shall be ezpended in future. This reso-
lution is, therefore, proper. He was a fri::.id to
the piiaciple of the bill itself; he did not ibink
any great change could be effected in the plans of
the buildings ; buj it was necessary they should
bave all the information possible.
Mr. CoiT hoped the motioa would prevail ;
many of the objections to the bill guaranteeing
the loan having arisen from a disiUie to the ex-
travagance of the buildings.
Mr. MtiftRAV said, it evidently appeared to him
that, in consequence of an application to that
House for a guarantee, w"hich had been greatly
fierplexed, under shelter of objections and inqui-
ries, labors were making rather to destroy than to
finish the buildings. Gentlemen seemed iocliued
to destroy the power intrusted to the Commit
sioners, and with it the property of the city ; and,
after having taken down the preseut buildings,
and Gxed upon a different situation for them, they
may proceed to new model the oity, narrow the
streets, &c., and,, by doing this, violate the rights
of private property. No man, if this intermed-
dling system prevails, can be safe ; and, as soon
as this priaciple is understood, it will shake the
properly of ihc place. It is a city in speculation,
and one false step may prostrate il.
Mr. Cbabb again strenuously opposed the teso-
lulion.
Mr. Cooper was opposed to the resolution. He
said all they had to do in the business was to
(guarantee the loan, and get the security of the
ots for the money.
Mr. SEnawiCK said, he had al! along viewed
the subject in one point of view. Accommoda-
tions were lo be made for Government without
any expense to the public. The Commissioners
come forward and say they have property to do
this, but that they cannot immediately procure
money so as to complete the buildings in lime,
and ask for a guarantee to a, loan. Il was extra-
ordinary, he said, for them to say the buildings
were too magnificent, too commodious, too expen-
sive. The better the buildings are the more hon-
or il will he to those' who erected them, and to
those who occupy them. If they were too small
and incommodious, there would oe real ground of
complaint. If that House undertook to say what
should he the size of the buildings, they should do
what they had no tight to do. And, even if they
were more splendid than European palaces, ihey
■hould be gfaieful for them. The resolution was
put and carried, 42 against 38.
Mr. Giles's resolution being called for, it was
put and carried, lo the following effect ;
"That the nid oommiltM ihaU b« inatnictod to in-
quire into the Mala of the Public Buildiiiga at ihc pes-
maneat Seat ofGcwerBment (^ the United Sta(e>,iiat^
the expense alreadj inciured in erecting, and the pro'
bable eipenae of compledng the tame."
And then the House adjourned.
Fridat, Febraar; 96.
Mr. W. Smith wished to call up a resolutioD
laid on the table some days ago, to appoint a com-
mittee to bring in a bill for repealing the last sec-
tion of the act forbnildina and equipping a Naval
Armament. He wished the sense of the House
to he taken, whether, since a peace had been con-
cluded with the Dey of Algiers, the frigates which
were now building should or should not be com-
pleted. The resolution was read and ordered to be
committed to a Committee ol the Whole to whom
was referred the subject of the frigates.
The order of the nay bein^ called for on the bill
for relief in certain cases, lor a limited time, of
invalid registers oT ships, a division took place ; 32
members for the taking up the subject, and 31
against it. The House accordingly resolved itself
into a Committee of the Whole on the said bill,
and having gone through it, without any other
amendment than alloivingit a duration of ninety
instead of sixty days, the Committee rose, and the
bill having gone throughihe House, it was order-
ed to be engrossed for a tnird reading on Monday.
INDIAN TRADING HOUBES.
The ocder of the day beiitg taken up on the re-
port of the select committee to whom was refer-
red the act, with the amendments made bv the
Senate, for establishing trading houses with the
Indian tribes, and the amendments being read,
Mr. Jerehiab Skitii thought the amendments
very essential, as they changed the princi^ of
the bill. He believed, they had not been prmt«d,
and as it was very improper to discnss (heir mer-
its until opportunity was given to examine th«m,
he 'should move that the subject be postponed un-
til Wednesday. The Committee had recommend-
ed all the amendmentt to be rejected, except one ;
but aa the House might ha*e lull iolbrmAtion on
the subject, he should wish the bill to be printed
with the amendments and the topon of the Com-
mittee. Agreed to.
COMPENSATION TO MEMBERS.
Mr. Giles moved that the bill for allowinffcom-
pensalion to the members of the Senate and House
of Representatives, and certain officers of both
Houses, be taken up, which being agreed la the
Hoiue resolved itself ialo a Committee oT the
Whole; and the bill being read,
Mr. Sedqwick moved to strike out one of the
clauses of the bill as unnecessary, which brought
some observations from Mr. W. Lyhxh and Mr.
Goodhue, against the propriety of striking out,
and Mr. Seuowick withorew his motion.
Mr. Swirr wished to strike out the words mak-
ing the Speaker a greater allowance than other
members.
Mr. GiLBs thought a larger allowance ought to
be made to the Speaker than to other members,
as his jluty wu aouble that of any other mem-
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HISTOBT OF CONGHE88.
Febhuaht, 1796.]
Competualiim to Memberw.
[H.opR.
ber; but, if geoltemen wished to do away the
cidental expenses of the o&ae, he had no object!
Mr. SwiPT consented to vary his motion accord-
ing to the ideas of ihe member from Virginia. If
the Speaker bad more dnty to perform than other
Bieniber<. he should be willing to make him
greater allowance, but he doubled it.
Mr. W. Smfth hoped no aheration would be
made io the allowance beietofore made; he ^aw
BO reason for it. ' '
Mr. GoonHDE said, he voted againat the addi-
tional pay allowed the Speaber when the act
first passed, as he saw no necessity for the Speaker
10 give dinners to the members of that House;
but though he objected to this, he was willine to
allow him lecompense for hia additional services.
He hoped, however, the gentleman who now so
ably filled the office, wouldnot consider any thing
said on this subject as alluding personally to him.
Mr. Sedgwick was willing to give the money
to the Speaker which had heretofore been paid
him, and for the same purpose, although be aod
his colleague were both agauist the measure when
it originally passed.
Mr. Davtom wished the business might be dis-
cussed without relerence lo him personally. In-
deed he believed he should not be materially af-
feeied by any regulations which might be agreed
to, as. if he might judge by his present feelings, bis
bealcii would not permit him to remain m the
Chair after this session.
Mr. Giles was confident that do one meant to
hurt the feelings of the gentleman who now filled
Ihe Chair. The member from Massachusetts had
said, when the measure passed, he was asainst it,
V he was in faTor oi it. He could see no
was against the money beiog paid for incidi_
tal expenses, but not against making the Speaker
ample allowance for his services.
Mr. KiTCSELL was also for striking out the
words, but for making ample compensation to the
Speaker.
Mr. BotrBNB did not suppose that the incidental
expenses of the Speaker were confined to the din^
ners which he gave them ; he was put to more
expense in receiTiDfc oompasT than other mem-
bers. He did not thmk six doHars a day too much
for ihii
Mr. KlADiaoN said, it was customary in all the
Slate Governments to make the Speaker a greater
allowance than other members^ bis services were
far greater ; they were uninterrupted. Besides, it
was necessary to do so to invite men of talents to
accept of the oflice ; and every one knew the ad-
vantages arising from having a man of talents as
Speaker. Without inquiring whether the com-
peosaiion was too large or too small, he doubted
whether it was Constitutional to make any altera-
tion in it which mi^ht affect the pteseat Speaker.
To support his opinions he reaa a clause of tht
Coniiitution.
Mr. H1L.1.R011BB wu o{ opimon that nothing in
the CoiMtitutioD extended to ike present question.
He hoped they should agree to strike out tha
voids alliided to, at the sooner the practice of
feasting was abolished the better. If members
wished to form social acquaintance, it ivas fat pre-
ferable to viiit each other al their lodgings. He
said, this was the first time the law had come un-
der review since it bad passed, and it was proper to
have the matter settled. He wished to allow a rea-
sonable sum for ibe services of the Speaker but
no more. He dij] not think there was any weight
in the observation, thai a large corapensation was
necessarv to induce men of talents to accept of the
Chair— he thought the honor was a sufficient in-
ducement.
Mr. WiLLiAwa said there was no office apper-
taining to the Speaker which included expense ;
the words ought therefore to be struck out.
Mr. Page was in favor of striking out the words,
as he did nut uuJerstand their meaniDs-, hut in fa-
vor of keeping the allowance of the Speaker the
same as usual. The Speaker, be said, ought to '
be placed in an iadependenl situation, by a hand-
some salary. His duties were fourfold to those of
any other member. Indeed, said he, nothing but
a sense of duty could induce a man to undertake
such an office.
Mr. Giles said, if it was agreed to strike out
the words /en- the incidental experuet 0/ hi* o^ce,
he should move to introduce in their place, " on
occourit ^ ejntra »ermce» a/nnextd la hit q^ce."
Mr. Jbbexiab Smith liked the words proposed
better than those in the bill, but did not think it
of the importance it was made.
The motion for striking' oat was put uid car-
Mr. Giles then proposed his motion.
Mr. HiLLHODSB was against the iulioduclion of
these words.
Mr. VaKhum hoped the motion would pterail.
The services of toe Speaker are extraordioaty
and laborious. The State Legislatures, he saia,
always allowed their Speaker double the pay of
other members.
Mr. MuBRAY hoped the words would not obtain.
He considered tlie Speakership of that House as a
very elevated situation. In certain eontingencieB,
he believed he wan the Chief Executive of the
United States. He thoushl the calculation of pay
too mechanical. The aignity of die office was
sufficient without extraordinary compensBtioi ;
the duties of it were well known.
The question was put, and negatived.
Mr. GiuEa moved to fill up the blank for the
daily allowance of meuXbers of the Senate with
six ooltars,
Mr. Paos nroposed seven ; which, after a fsw '
obeervations from Mr. Williams in favor of six,
the sense of the House was lakeo, which was in
favor of six dollars — only twenty-one members
rising in favor of seven.
The allowance of the Speaker again coming
into consideration, Mr. Swirr wished an inqnixy
might be made into the duties of the office. It
was his opinion that many members upon com-
mittees performed greater services than he; and
if the Speaker had an extra aUowance, they
ought to have an extra allowance also. Some
gentlemen thought, on (he acore of dignity, a bigh
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
fittemal Revenue.
[Febbuaby, 1796.
accept of (DC office 7 No such thing. Being
discharged from any obligation to treat meml
he could not agree la allow him the usual' s
He should not object to two or three dollars a day
eitra, but no more.
Mr. GiLEB thought (he duly of the Speake
three timef as arduous as that of any other meni
ber of the House.
Mr. Cbabb voted for sirikiag out the word;,
but he nai not for diminishing the salary of the
Speaker.
The motion for (be usual allowance was put
and carried, and (he other blaaks of the hill n
filled up with the same sums as heretofore alli
ed to the different officers. The Commitiee re
the bill then went through the House, and was
ordered to be engrossed and read a third time' '
Uonclay.
DiTERNAL REVENUE.
Mr. W. Smith moved (be order of (he day i
the repor( of th« Committee of Ways and Meai
on the Internal Revenue.
Mr. Oi[.Es objected to taking up this business
notil they received the information which had
been aiked for from (he Secretary of the Trea-
•OTV.
The sense of the House being taken, there ap-
«eired for consideration 36, against it 33. The
House having resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole-
Mr. S. Smith moved that the Commitiee rise,
ai it was not in possession of the Decexsary inform-
ation to go into the proposed inquiry. Near
twelve months had elapsed, he said, since the Se-
cretary of the Treasury was applied to for the ac-
eounts now wanted. The resolutions which the
Committee of Ways and Means repart,go to new-
modify the revenue laws. They may have had
some informalioo to enable them to form a iudg-
tneii( upon the subject which the House had noL
The Houhe cannot agree to the proposed change
tintit the^ have information on the subject. If the
officer of the Treasury had obeyed the order of
that House given last session, (hey might have
proceeded in the business, but at present they
could not.
Mr. W. Smitb had no objection to the Com-
mittee's rising. The Committee of Ways aad
Means, be said, bad obtained information from the
Commisrioner of the Revenue on the subject, but
that ihey did not think it proper to lay that inform-
ation before the House, as (bey undemtood this
Commissioner was preparing a more perfect ac*
count for the House. The report, he said, did not
go to change the method of eolleeting the reve-
nue, it went only to certain chaogrs which they
thought would materially improve (he preseot
plan. If the Committee was of the tame opinion,
the report might be referred back ; but if the Com-
mittee wishedf to wait for further information, he
•honid not object to its doing u.
Hr. Qallatih nid, the gentleman from Mary-
land was right in the principle he had laid
down. No doubt the' Committee of Ways and
Means ought not only to give their opinion, but
all the facts on which it rests. On tliis subject
there would have been no hesitation, but for one
thing. The Commissioner of the Revenue seems
to be the proper officer to make the report to this
House. A conference took place on the subject
betwixt him and the Committee of Ways and
Means. He said he had taken all the steps in his
power to gel the information wanted, but that it
was not yet complete ; and that, as he was inclin-
ed 10 make the report as perfect as possible, he
wished that it mi^hi be postponed until he cuuld
complete it ; but it was desired he would, in the
mean time, give the best information he could to
the Committee of Ways and Means. He did so-
Upon these documents the commiltee have acted.
Tne House may, therefore, either wait till the re-
port comes from the Commissioner, or they may
direct the commitiee to give an extrai^t from the
information before them. He wished the Com-
mittee to rise, until the necessary information was
obtained.
Mr. Giles gave some account of the progress
of this inquiry into the state of the revenue, and
complained of^ the length of time taken to give the
information required on the sobject. Until this
was before the House, he doubted whether any
gentleman was even prepared to speak as to the
proportion that the eipense of colfectiog bote to
the revenue. He hoped that the Committee would
therefore rise.
Mr. HiLLHOUBE hoped the proper officer would
be called upon for the necessary mformatioD, and
not the Committee of Ways and Means.
The Commitiee having rose, Mr. Giilbb propos-
ed to tbe House a resolution to the following ef-
fect, which, after a number of observations from
diflerent members on its propriety, was agreed to.
Itetoloed, That the Secretary of the Treasu-
ry be directed to furnish this House with such a
statement of the internal revenue of the United
States as can be prepared In pursuance of a reso-
lution of the 2d March^l795.
REFUNDINO DUTIES.
The order of the day being called for on a bill
for affording relief to Jose Koiz Silva, in return-
ing him an excess of duty paid on a cargo of wine,
also on a bill for tbe relief of Israel Luring, al-
lowing him a certain drawback on certain indigo ;
they went through tbe Committee of the Whole,
and through the House without amendment, and
were ordered to be engrossed and read a third
■"■■" ort Monday.
communication was received from the Se-
cretary of the Treasury, enclosing an account of
The expenditures for the quarter closing (he 31si
December.
BENJAMIN TITCOMB.
The report of the Commitiee of Claims on the
petition of Benjamin Tilcomb, a Colonel in the
late war. was read ; ibey lament that no general re.
lief can begtanted tohi'm,and that to grant specm.
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381
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
PBUOkRT, 1796.]
hnyreiwmeTtt of Avuriean Seamen.
i«li«f might be atiendedwilh bad conMquences'
ud tlwrprure r«coinmend that he hare leav
witbdraw his petitioD.
Ht. RuTBEHFOBD spokc 111 Tavor of the reporl of
the oetitioner.
Mr. W, Lynam faoppd a proTtsioD would be
made for thin gentleman, and some otbera in a
nmtlar situation. Thereoaght to be a distinctbo
made, he said, betweea wounded officers and
those wbo were fortunate eaoagh to CN:ape wiih-
ont wounds. He hoped the report would not be
agreed tt>.
Mr. Sberbuhhe thought (his petitioner might
be proTided for without infringement on the laws
which militate aKSinsi his claim. Indeed, be said, it
wonld be most disgraceful to the country to turn
a deaf ear to such a sufTeier. He wished i>ie Com-
mittee to rise, 85 be would, on a future day, bring
forward the discussion whether this petitioner is
not, as a wounded officer, rntitled to a pension,
and, as serrtng to the end of the war, to half-pay.
Tbe Commillee now rose, and the House ad-
joarned.
HoNDAV, February 29.
Hr. SwARwicK presented a petition ftom tbe
mannbetarers of nais in Philadelphia, ((»ether
vrith lerenl othcn from manufacturers of hats in
different parts of the Union, praying (hat an addi-
tional duty may be laid on hats imported from
Barope, in order to encourage the American tnan-
ufacturej which were severally referred to the
Committee of Commeri;e and Manufactures.
Tbe bill for allowing compensation to members
of tbe benate and members of the House of Re-
presentatives, and certain officers of both Houses ;
also the bill for relief for a limited time, in cer-
tain eases, of invalid registers of ships, were read
m third time and passed without a division.
Tbe bill for the relief of Jose Roi* Silva, and
the bill for the relief of Israel Loring, were read
a third time and passed ; but a division of (he
House being called for on eaeh, for (he former
there stood up 54 members in favor of it — the ne-
gatives were not taken ; for ihelatter, (here were
43 in favor of its passing, and 37 against it.
IMPHESBMENT OF AMERICAN SEAMEN.
Mr. LiTiHasTOK wished tbe order of the day
to be postponed, in order to take up the report of
the committee to whom was referred the resolu-
.lioDhe had laid on the table respecting tbe im-
pressment of American seamen; which being
agreed to, the Hoase went into a Committee of
the Whole.
Mr. HsRPBK had hoped when this resolution
was com mi I ted to a select eommit(ee, some sta(e-
meat* would have been brought forward, some
Acts produced, upon whicli to fonnd tbe proposed
inqairy. Tbe committee have reported (hat they
Jo DM think il necessary to adduce any particular
iiutaiices in iirhieh American seamen have been
imimned by foreign nations— the facts, they al-
leged, are too notorious to require particularizing.
He eoald not soppose these gentlsmen would be
[H.opR.
lieve that that House could proceed to legislate
on uncertain newspaper reporiF. He trusted they
would afford some proof who, what number, when,
and where American seamen have bceo impress-
ed. Until this was doqe, he should doubt the facL
He was heard, he believed, by Represcnlatives
from evtry port in the United Stales, and if the
fact was so notorious as to need no further evi-
dence he doubted not some of these eentlemen
would be able to give some account of the busi-
If the facts were established, Mr. Harpbh be-
lieved there would be but one opinion on tbe pro-
priety of granting relief; but before they proceed-
ed farther, some information was necessary re-
specting the existence of this abuse. He had ap-
plied to (he office of (he Secreiary of Slate, and to
other oSicea likely (a afford information on the
subject, but he found no instance of impressmei:!
compUioeJ of in which redress had not been giv-
fii. But, if any such instances did exist, in which
relief hns been applied for aod not obtained, some
of the gentlemen from some of the seaports will
be able to mention them. If not, he hope.l the
Committee would rise, and recommit the report-
Mr. LiTiKGBTON said, the present measure was
intended to afford relief to such of their distressed
fellow-cidzens as had been illegally seized on (be
high seas. The gentleman, he said, who brings
forward objections to the proposed inqoirv was in
his place when the resolution upon whicn the re-
port of the committee is founded passed unani-
mously. Why did he not then come forward?
[Mr. Habper said he was not in the House at tbe
lime.] The resolution does not direct the com-
mittee to inquire into facts ; they were considered
Leeislature of the United States have formerly
had evidence, and they have acted upon it. If the
Sentleman will look into the proceedings of tbe
isl session of Congress, he will find a considera-
ble sum granted to Mr. Gutting, for the relief ot
(his distressed body of men. Some he relieved,
others he did not. When the dignity of the na-
tion, said he, is insulted, in the persons of our fei-
low-citlzens, it is necessary at least to make in-
quiry into their sufierings.
A remark had fallen, Mr. L. said, from the mem-
ber from 8outh Carolina, which he wished to no-
tice. He said be bad applied to the office of the'
Secretary of State, and found there no complaint
which had not been redressed. Now, be had
waited upon the Secretary of State, as Chairman
of the committee, in vain for information on this
subject. Heiuformed him that he could not^ive
him the evidence which it appears he has given
to the member from South Carolina. How, be
wished to know, happened it that a member who
opposes the inquiry in question should be fur-
nished with thar information which is denied to
a member who supports it?
It is said, added Mr. L., that we are atteraptiiig
to legislate without evidence. Though no facts
are at present before (he House, it is notorious that
instaDcea have been made knowp to
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT OF CONGRESS.
Impretement of American Seamen.
H-ofR.]
GovemtneDt, and the present measure is meant to
inqaire inlo the cases of sufferers, apd remedy
(hem as far as possible. It ia adniilied fay the
member from South Carolina that facts have es-
isted, but that they have been temared. If ihese
grierances. then, said he, have existed, let us pfe-
veQt them in future. Let us not wait till it is too
late lo grant relief. The men, said he, wlfo suffer
by the depredations complaiued of, are at a great
distance from ibcir homes and friends in foreign
ports, d:;-,egpd on board tenders, and made lo ex-
perience every hardship which can be cooceiTed;
and DOW. when a mode is proposed for the relief
of these distressed citizens evidence is called for !
If one of these men is conGned in the East Indies,
can evidence of his bondage be expected to be
given here? Such hardships have existed, and it
tfas their business to prevent them from a^ain
occurring. He hoped, therefore, the Committee
would not rise, as he trusted there was sufficient
■ eTidence on which to ground the inquiry.
Mr. Harper wished to remark, on what had
fallen from the member from New York, on the
Secretary of Slate's refusing information to certais
members and giving it to others. He apphed to
the office of the Secretary of State, to learn whe-
ther there were any documents there to support
the proposed inquiry, and was informed there were
only two cases; in one of which application was
made to the British Government. Four persons
were said lo have been impressed ; but, on mquiry
it appeared that two of them were Biilish subjects,
and the other two had enlisted into the service.
The other complaint came to the office wbcn the
Secretary of State was much engaged in other
concerns, but he believed relief wasgran ted. This,
he said, was verbal informatioD. He had appHed
for written documents on the subject, and doubted
not he should receive ihem as soon as other busi-
ness would permit.
Mr. Livingston aaid, some observations had
been made hy him whtcb implicated itie Secre-
tary of State. Those observations, he said, arose
from the manner in which the member from South
Carolina bad mentioned his having rcceiriid in-
formation from the Secretary of State's office. He
had said that he had learnt from the office certain
particulars which he himself had not been able to
leain. If the gentleman had explained the man-
ner in which he had gained the information at
, first, it would have prevented him from making a
charge which appeared to him, at the time, but
too well founded.
Mr. Bourne said, the member from New York
must koow that the Secretary of State had said
that he would prepare the itiformation wanted as
soon as other business would give him time-
Mr. Lcvikobton ezpjained, and said that he had
not complained that the inHormaiLon he applied
for was refused, but delayed.
Mr. S>Aakwick said, (he member from South
Carolina had called for information : he conceived
no particular information necessary. He could
mention an instance in which he had immediate
concern. A retsel of his, going to the West In-
dies, had all her hands taken out of hei, and obliged
[FfiBRDAKV, 1796.
to work the guns of the EngLsh frigate ; and on
their expostulating, that though they were prison-
ers, they did not wish to work the guns, tbey were
threatened with whipping; and the Captain was
told, if he interfered, he should be whipped and
sent home to England in irons. If be had thought
facts were wanting, by a single advertisement in
one of the Philadelphia papers they would have
been overpowered with facts. But, if he bad done
so, be supposed he should have been charged with
raising disse lis faction in thr mitifls of the people,
or with encouraging Jacobinical principles: he
therefore did not do it. But^ without going out of
the walls of the House, he said, he foand evidence
sufficient. He read an extract from the, commu-
uiculion of the Secretary of State, doted March 3,
1794, in which were mentioned I he representa-
tions made by sundry merchants of Philadelphia
(of whom he v/as one) respecting th^ impress-
ments of American seamen. This document was
thought sufficiently strong to make an article of
instruction to Mr. Jay in his late negotiation ; but,
owing to certain difficulties, no specific agreement
was entered into by him for their relief.
The plan now before the House, said Mr. S., is
intended lo remedy the 'difficulties which have
been urged as obstacles in this business, by ofieQ-
ing registers in which to enter every American
seaman, bv which may be known, at any lime, the
number of seamen belonging to ihi; United Smte^
and by means of which every such seaman would
be possessedof a certificate of his citizenship.
The object of the Committee, said Mr. S., is
(h.-ii the Pbesioent of the Uniteo States shall
send agents to England and the West Indies, in
order to afford relief to any American citizens
who may have been illegally seized. Rvery
one knows, said he, what h&s been felt on account
of American seamen carried into Algiers. No
evidence was required with respect to their num-
bers, or bow they were employed. The united
exertions of the whole American people seemed
to cry out for their releasement, and tne bufiiness
at length has been effected. And let us not, said
he, attend to our distressed citizens in one part,
but in all parts of the world. Let us not, he said,
be too nice about evidence.' These men are gen-
erally ignorant, and cannot give the necessary
information: be thought, however,lhey had iolbrm-
ation sufficient for legi^ating upon in the present
case. He hoped, therefore, the report would not
berecommitted, until the committee had disensaed
Mr, Tracy believed that every member in that
House feli: the pri^riety of extending the benefit
of the laws to every class of citizens, and to none
more than to American seamen. Some members
seemed to suppose that the distresses of AtiKrican
seamen have been looked upon with apathy ; but
if due attention had been paid to the eETorte of
Government, it would have beeoseen that they had
always been duly attended to. It was welt known
ihat great difficulties arose when it was attempted
to distinguish between English asd American
seamen. This has been the reason why ample
teguiaiionshavenotalways taken plooe. Heboped
.dbyGoogle
m8T0RT OF CONGRESS.
Feb R DART, 1796.]
Impnttment of American Seamen.
ihe Govonunent mrald be popular, sod that the
new memben in the House would assist the old
one* 10 render il more and more so; but thought
the QoTemment ought Bot to be charged with apa-
thy without giring due attention to what Qovern-
ment had done.
Mr. T. proceeded to take notice of the remlu'
lions proposed in the report He inquired what
good tne a|;ent to be sent to Great Britain wonld
aoT Are their seamen, eaid he, employed al but
one placet Had not the United States Consuls
It crerv port, and can they not do the businessT
He wished for informatioa on the subject. A ^e&t
part of the seamen were foreigriers, he said, and it
would be rery difficult to separate them. If Ihe
plan proposed, however, can be made to appear to
w beneficial, he would heartily join in effecting
the desired relief to the class of citizens alluded to.
Mr. GoODBDE said, the member from New Yoi'k,
on bringing forward this subject, had charged'
Gorernmeat with looking upon the distresses of
American seamen with apathy, and bluiihed on
acconnt of its conduct towards them. He repre-
sented, he believed, twenty tiilies the number of
Amerieaa seamen that that gentleman represent-
ed. He was hitnself, indeed, formerly a seaman ;
jH he did not believe the evil complained of ex-
isted to any alarming degree. Mr. Cutting, it had
been said, had relieved many seamen ; that was
in the year 1790. Last SumTner.the British took
many vessels bound to France, but they did
lake the crews. There were some instances hb
laid, in which seamen had been impressed, and he
should be in ft vor of every necessary step to afford
them relief. But no obloquy should be thrown
on the Government. Neither does the evil exist
to the extent it might have been supposed when
the subject was brought forward. A member from
in a particular instance ofa French
officer who had sg ill-treated some American
seamen as to be cashiered, on a representation
being made to the French (Jovernment.
Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) said, that he had
Dot expected an opposition to the resolution under
consideration on the ground of fact ; that he could
not have supposed any member would have ques-
tioned the existence of the evils which the propo-
i^itjons were calculated to remedjr. He entertained
a belief that the impressments of American sea-
men, pBTlieularly on V)ard of British ships of war.
was a matter of too great notoriety to need any
eTidenecBl this time. But (he member from South
CarnlioB, who manifested the most zealous oppo-
'•ition to these measures, had adtnitted that tnerc
bad existed instances of this sort ; and a?! it must
fuUow that what had once existed might again
riijt. it behooved Congress to make provisions
[ending to prevent, or at least most speedily and
eSicaeioDsly to' remedy, them.
-Mr. D. declared, that he heartily approved the
object of the resolntion as originally proposed by
themetnberfrom New York, and the general prin-
ciples of the report founded thereon, as a question
ofhumaDity. and of great national policy. It was,
bowever, -with pain that he heard tne worthy
moTer drawinto nnfavOrable questicm the eondnci
of the Secretary of State, and indulge himself in
some severe reflections and imputations upon that
cfficer. Mr. D'. ascribed it to an irritability — and
perhaps an honest irritability — upon this subject,
so affecting and interesting to Americans. He
ascribed it to a warmth of temper in which, in this
particular case, the cooler judgment of that gren-
tteman, and the knowledge of the real eharacter
and conduct of the Secretary of State, had no
agency or intinence. The expressions wnich had
been uttered by some gentlemen, in the course of
the discussion , tendidg Co charge our Government
with a criminal apathy and' indifference towards
thisdescriptionof citizens, did by no means, Mr. D.
said, meet with his approbation. He believed
them to be unfounded ; for he was persuaded that
whenever it was informed.it did whatever it could
to relieve the seamen of the United StateSj and to
obtain for those who unfortunately needed it, com-
jilete redresB. Having said thus much in vindica-
tion of the Conduct of the Qovemment, he returned
to the resolution itself, and declared himself i^
advocate. It contained, neither in its words nor
spirit, any impulatirm apon the Executive, of the
sort hinted at. The question was, siinply, whether
the seamm of America should, '^hen impressed
by foreigners, wait the slow process of a repre-
sentation of tbeir situation to the Qovemmenl in
the American metropolis, or be furnished with a
protector in every country, and almost in every
In the former case, every one must perceive it
more than possible, that owing to distance and the
time which must consequently 1>e expended in the
Government, an American citizen might be im-
pressed and compelled to serve months — perhaps
S'ears — in a »ervice which he detested, and possibly
breed to apply the match to cannon charged witn
balls, aimed for the destruction of his friends.
Mr, D. said, he rose principally la inquire whe-
ther the plan proposed by the committee was the
most effectual one. He wished to hear from the
Chairman, or some other member, whether they
had attended to the circumstance of our having
Consuls iu many ports, and'had weighed the pro-
priety of investing them with the powers in qut;s-
tion. These officers appeared, «l first view, the
most Stand convenient for the purpose, on account
of their number, their situation, and the saving of
Mr.BoDRtiB said it appeared, on inquiry, that the
United States had no Consul in the West Indies,
and that as Consuls received no salary for their
services, it wits thought best to appoint a person
specially to undertake the business in question.
He believed, however, that the duty ought to de-
volve on Consuls in Great Britain, as it is the daty
of Consult to relieve distressed seamen wherever
they may be found. This may be done with mUch
less expense and mth more efficacy.
With regard to the information on the subject,
Mr.'B. said, it did not appear that any considera-
ble number of seametf had been impressed lately,
OT aiaee the negotiation of Hr. Jay. In that ne-
.dbyGoogle
, I
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
tntprtmmmt tf Jotmcan Seamen.
[PfilRDAST. 1796.
gotiBlioD, it appear* ■ome difficultie* were aug-
gested, and no general regulalion on the subject
look place; but Ebe Eaglish Miaiitec assured Mr.
Jay inat ftesh iastructioDt should be gireli to the
eommauden of their Teasels, and, ia consequence,
man)' compUiiUa have not sidc^ arisen. There
are not, he believed, at present, many American
Kamen in the Br itisli sejrice — most of tbem beings
dtDcharged ; yet it is possible, from the many im-
Eressed some yean ago, relief might be afforded
y seodiag sn agent to the West Indies. It was
possible, he said, that Americau seamen on board
vessels taken by Bermudiaus may still be detained,
who miffbC be reliered by this aiceat.
Mr. 6. prpposed to amend tbe reaolution, by
atriking out that part of it nbich appoints an
asent lor Qreat Britain, and confine the sending
of an agent to that pert of the English posses-
'sions in the West Indies to which the greatest
number of American vessels sail.
Mr. LiviHoaToN was pleased to see gentlemen
concur in endeavoring to form a plan for the relief
of American seamen. It has been asked why the
Consuls were not intrusted with this business.
The committee considered, that as the Consuls o(
the United States received no other recompense
for their services than thedignity and consequence
which their office ^ives thcm^ they v/ould not be
likelv to pay FuffictenI attentioa to a business of
this kind. They considered the immenbe labor of
Mr. Gutting to deliver the impressed American
I. They supposed, therefore, if Ihc duty
in the West Indies, a special agent should be ap-
Eoioted. In order to brine a view of the subject
efore the House, he would inquire how relief is
to be afforded to a seaman who has been impressed?
BunpOfe he is seized in London; he is sent down
to Portsmouth. The agent must attend imme-
diately—get certificates— pay fees of office— em-
ploy counsel, &b,, to release a single seaman ; — a
trouble be believed no Consul would take. The
committee supposed that the solemnity of com-
missioning an asent especially on the business
would convince Toielgn Powers that they would
no longer suffer the British, or others, to exercise
that power over Americatl seamen which they
themselves could not exercise. It is to be hoped,
also, that when the Oorernmeni of Great Britain
sees a step of thii' sort taken, she will give up the
practiceof seizing American seamen, and let them
pass in quietness. If not, the agents employed
could transmit to this country an account of what
■eamen were seized by them, and every particular
respecting the same. This consideration influ-
enced the committee, and he trusted it would influ-
ence the House.
Mr. LiviNOBTon next remarked on what had
been Miid on the introduction of this business into
the House. It was mid that a young member had
thrown obloquy on the Government. He had ut-
tered nothing out facts; he had said that the dis-
tressed Americin seamen had for 6 ve years looked
in vain for relief. The Government might have
had prudential reasonsroriisomducl. He thought
it time, however, the sabjecl was attended to. It
was true he was young, but he was not inatteo'
tive tu public business, and he should always hold
it his duty to persevere in such measures as ap-
peared to him calculated to promote the public
good; nor should he be deterred from engagios
in a business because it had not been atlemptea
before, for that principle would shut out all im-
provement. Mr. L.said his friend from New Jer-
sey had made an aptdogy for his heat oii opening
the biuiness; he was sure he was actuated bv the
best motives in doing so, but he did not think hii
conduct needed an apolosy. Ahd what he had
said with respect to the Secretary of Slate, he
thought justified, from his conduct towards him,
and from hearing a member say he had recourse
to his office, he supposed that gentleman had re-
ceived inforinalion which he could not receive,
It arose from error, and the method of communi-
cation adopted by that member ; he was, there-
fore, justified in his remarks ; as, though it was a
raistase, it was caused by that member, and no
fauU.ofhis.
Mr. GooDBDE agreed with the member from
Rhode Island [Mr. BooaNE.] He supposed it the
duty of Consuls to attend to the canes of impressed
seamen. There was no need, therefore, to send
, I ember from
South Carolina had called upon gentlemen from
seaports for evidence, if they were silent, it would
be supposed no information could be given on the
subject under discussion. He supposed he should
be prevented from giving this information now,
because the amendment of the first resolution w«s
under consideration. [The House called for ia-
formation.J He said he represented a port where
the fact ol American seamen being impressed by
the British was so notorious that every n^an knew
it. But how, said he, is this information to be got
and transmitted to the Secretary of Slate 1 No
complaipt is likely to reach hisi office, except
brought there by merchants. In his own trade,
he had frequent instances of this sort almost in
every voyage. He could not say the men im-
pressed were always Americans, but they were
men sailtng under the aulhority of the United
States. We have a flag, under that flag men ara
seized, and they have a right to expect, when
seized, redreus from Qovernment. 'niere is no
difference between British and Algerines, for, bf
the former, they are compelled to light against
those whom they wish well, which is equal to any
slavery that pan be imposed. He said, that from
one of his ships there were two New Bngland
men impressed ; one of whom being a xioul, cou-
rageous man, wished to have defended biraself
against his assailants ; but the supercargo said, [to,
this will risk the cargo of the owner. This ad-
vice he gave, supposing Government would afford
these men relief.
If the member from South Carolina wished for
such information as would be received before a
Court of Judicature, it could not be got. Mr. S,
thought sufficient attention had not been paid by
Govetnioetit to the merchoati and seamen. Mr.
.dbyGoogle
BOSTOBT OP CONGRESS.
Pbmdary, 1706.]
Imprtuatenl of Anuricun Seamen.
Jay, in hia communicatioD to Lord GrenTiUet
nvn, ikD impressmeDl of American seamen had
wtea place, wbo had been forced to fight, &.c. If
this bad not been to, it had not been writteD bv
Mr. Jay, nor would Lord Greuyille have piomiied
relief. He hoped this inforitiaiianwouldbeihoaght
jofficieot.
With rpspeci to the business hein^ transacted
br Consuls, he beliered America had only two in
Englaad, who are merchants, and who, having- no
nlary, could not be expected to go from one part
of the kingdom to the other. It was said by the
member from Mnssachuseiis [Mr. GoodhcbJ that
few American citizens sailed from the part of the
cOQQtry he came fiom; but would he not have
citizens sailiog from evetv part of the Union
rqually protected? It had been said that there
were not many instances of American seamen
impressed ; but, sapnae there were but one man,
loa he a negro, suSeriiig under the galling yoke
of impressment, it is the duty of OoTernment to
Cvitle relief for that man. The same member
said that the Quiberon vessels did not imprebs
the crews of the ships ; he said it was sufficient to
lake their flour and pay them nine dollars for
what mighthave been sold the next day for twenty
or upwards. Mr. 8. concloded by observing, that
if we were a feeble nation, we had a right to ex-
pect juetice ; but he hoped we were not so feeble
IS some gentlemen imagined. He was pleased
that a majorltv of the I^use was inclined to im-
prove the lesolution, rather than to destroy it.
Mr. Goooana aaid, he thought as ill of the Bri-
tish on account of their conduct in taking Ameri-
aa vessels as any member; he mentioned only
that the crews were not lak«i. He believed re-
presentalioDs were made by Government respect-
ing the conduct of the British. He was willing
to join in any necessary measures for the protec-
tion of seamen. He did not think it would be ne-
cessary to send special agents to England.
Mr. Madison observed, that the genltemaa from
Rhode Mand who made the motion now ioquea-
lioD, ihooght it uoneceBsary to send agents to
GreatBritain, because America bad Consuls tbere.
The member lately up from Maryland had anli-
cipaitd what he Intended to hare remarked on
that subject.. He did not think the Consul* could
do all that agents might The Coosub are but
two in number in the Kingdom, who receive no
recompense, except an increase of business from
ilieir public character. Under these circamsiances,
if they do their ordinary functions, it is as much
as can be expected ; the business now wanted to
be done is extraordinary. Besides, Consuls are
nncqual to the task. Men are seized, put on board
veuels allotted for the purpose, until i^hips of war
be ready to receive them. It is a heavy husinesji,
Ihcieforc, for a person to follow Up the inquiry
and go m pursuit of persons thus seized. If an
■gent or agents should be sent to Great Britain.
DO other business will require his or fbcir attend-
ance. After the present motion is decided, he
•hould wish lo have the words struck out, "Gxiag
ibe place of residence tor agfatt,'* and leave it Jo
the pown of the Prbbident lo appoint thai par-
Mr. HiBPEB always believed it necessary to
have information on any subject on which that
House legislated; but in jhis particular case, it
seems it may be dispensed with ; it is unnecessary
to know whether any seamen have been impressed,
or whether tbere be any at present impressed; and
when a gentleman asks for Informatjon, he is re-
preaenled as zealously opposing a measure in
which be wi>hcd every necessary relief to be
given. He should not inquire into the reason for
this conduct, nor suffer it (o deter him from doing
his duty. He did not wish lo make public profes-
sions of love to his country, but to leave his con-
duct to speak for him. He had understood that
zeal, unless founded on knowledge, was not a very
beneficial thing, and that the public good might be
attained without vehement speeches. Under this
conception he should coqtioue lo act, and he
would leave other gentlemen to act a coniraiy
Rart if thev chose. He again called for the in-
irmation ne aitked for before. He had called
He then took notice of the difiercnt kinds of evi-
dence which had been adduced, and would not
allow it any weight. He said he was disposed, as
far as prudence, necessiljr, and justice, required, to
afford relief to hb sufieiing Tel low-citizens, but
he should never agree lo proceed in a busiuess
until he understood the nature of the grievaocea
complained of. He said the Executive had a
right to interfere when representations were made
to him ; the authority lodged in him is sufficient,
and Legislative tneafis are unnecessary. If bis
'power did not enable him to do this, he should be
disposed to arm him with the neces.<iary power.
He did not believe the eases of prisoners made by
the Algerines, and men impresHeri b^ the British,
materialtv different, except in the evidence of the
fact. He nad, indeed, seen certificates in the news-
papers asserting that sixty Dien had been taken
from American vessels, by one English frigate,
but he did not believe it, because there was no
other evidence of the fact. Mr. H. concluded by
observing, that if the Qommittee thought differ-
ently from him, he should heartily give his con-
tent to what t|ie majority may approve. He
thought a sufficient number of agents should be
appointed, and that thev shoiild be placed in situ-
ations, not in which Ineir owo private interests
might be best served, but where the public busi-
ness required them. He would also have these
agents paid ft salary equal lo their services. He
was opposed to the amendment of the member
frum Rliode Island.
Mr. Bohhub rose to enlarge hi^ amendment,
leaving a greater power in the bands of the Pbs-
BiQEHT, with respect to the appointmenl of acenta.
Mr. Baldwin wished the resolution lo km)
modelled as to enable the PBaaiDSNT to mke the
most effectual means lo inquire into the situniion
of American seamen who may have been im-
pressed by foreign Powers. He believed, though
different membera held diffeibil opinions on the
'dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OFR.]
Impreitmertl of American Seamen.
subject, they were equajly inclined to effect tile
object in view. The Consuls were not sufficient,
fae said, but he would have it left lo the Prcbi-
dehT to appoint what persons he thought proper
to do the ousiness, and they iDust provide the ne-
cessary means.
Mr. Giles could not agree to striking out the
duty of the agents; he thought it as necessary to
say what the duty of the agents should he as (o
appoint them. He did not wish their place of re-
sidence to be designated — they might be employed
in going to different countries. He was ior get-
ting redress from Prance as well as from England.
He said it was somewhat singular to hear parti-
cular evidence called for, on the present question,
after the general form at the resolution had been
unantmuufly agreed to. It has been granted that
Americari citizens have been impressed, but it is
not known but they may be now at liberty. If
coolness and deliberation, said Mr. G., do not give
more information than the gentleman from South
Carolina seems to possess, it would be well if he
had a little more of the zeal he blames in others.
They had endeavored heretofore to furnish a r6-
mediat redress to the evil complained of, but with-
out effect; they wished now to take preventive
means. If there are persons in bondage, they wilt
be relieved ; if not, luiure impressraenrts will be
prevented. He thought there could be no doubt
of the fact. But he said the probability of danger
was sufficient. At the breaking out of every war,
neutral Powers are liable to have their rights in-
vaded, and persons might be placed with propriety
to prevent aepredations on them. A circumstance
haa been mentioned that the British colonial re-
gulations are such as to prevent a Consul residing
there ; it is doubtful, therefore, whether an agent
commissioned by the present bill would be per-
mitted to remain. ' It requires consideration. We
have heard, said he, remarks on different kinds of
citizens; it is the duty of Government to defend
alike the native and the naturalized citizen.
The certificates -of citizenship proposed to be
given by this measure would accomplish this end.
The similarity of language of British and Ameri-
cans requires this step. If Britain discovers, said
he, that we ate determined to defend our seamen,
she will forbear to injure them.
Mr. GooDHtE' accorded with the member of
Georgia not to deatniate the place of residence of
agenti. He thought there were not many im-
pressed American seamen in Great Britain; he
Wlieved there wete more in Hispaniola. Gentle-
men had doubted whether agents would be allowed
to reside in the British West India Colonics ; he
believed they would ; the reason America had no
agents there, was, they had no trade there.
Mr. HiLLtroDSE satd, if the gentleman who
brought forward the present question, bad been in
the House when the subject was formerly dis-
cussed, he would have seen that the feelings of
members were sufficiently alive towards their fel-
low-citizens— the American seamen. He believed
there had been ituitances of impressment, and that
they ought to be inauired into. What had been
done for theii relief, he knew not, but did not
Mr. Gallatin hoped the amendment wiluld be
adopted, as it had a tendency to unite the differ-
ent opinions of members. As to a degree of kd-
libility taking place in any gentleman, it was not
»urp^i^iDg. The first degree of heat displayed on
the occasion appeared in a member opposing the
business. The report before the House, said he,
stated, merely, that the sufferings of our fellow-
citizens are too notorious to need proof, and the
feelings of eveiy man would establish the truth.
He would even ask the member from South Ca-
rolina himself, if he did not believe the fact 1 the
only question was, whether this pilhlic notoriety
was sufficient to ground their proceedings Upon ?
In man^ cases it would not ; but in a case where
they might do good and CO harm, diey might
safely act upon it. But, he said, there was an offi-
cial report before the House in which the fact is
mentioned. They had not had the Treaty be-
tween this country and Great Britain laid before
them, but they had bceu officially informed of it,
and there is no provision in that Treaty for the
grievances here complained of. A gentleman has
told the House, that Mr. Jay had made a Tepre-
sentalioo on the subject, and that his representa-
tion was unsuccessful, so far as that it did not pro-
cure an article in the Treaty; but if they have
confidence enough in the assurance of a British
Minister^that Great Britain will protect American
seamen in future, no farther steps are necessary ;
but if not, they should let the Governmenlsof dif-
ferent nations know that proper means were taken
for their protection. Mr. G. did not mean to lax
ly brancli of Ghivemment with not having done
of facts; he wished -the bill to & general, and
thought the facts sufficient for the purpose.
Mr. Gilbert was infavor of the business under
of the evil, the number of agents to be employed
would depend. He wondered there should be any
objection to this ; he wanted it not only for him-
self, but that the country might know the whole
extent of the mischief.
Mr. Livingston said the proposed measures
would give gentlemen the information wanted of
unfortunate individuals at three thousand miles
distance, ns it was proposed to send them a, friend
to inquire into their sufferings. He would state
for the information of the gentleman from South
Carolina, evidence which came within his own
knowledge. The ship Somerset, from New York
to Bordeaux, was taken dn her passage home, by
an English man-of-war. five of tne crew were iir-
Kessed, three of whom were American citizens.
e hoped, therefore, after this fact, he might de-
pend on his vote. He had no great objection to
the amendment, though he wished the business to
have continued as at first stated.
' Mr. HiLLnoosE said, that in order to know how
far the appropriation of money is necessary to en-
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
U*iica,17S6.]
Joy»t—wieiU t^ Amervxm Seamen.
[H.c
joufdb
able ihe Psesidbnt to so into Ihe subject, the
extern of th^ evil should Be ascerlaiaed.
Mr. W. LvUAN liked the original form of ihe
resolution hencr tban ibe present. He said there
were very few causes of comijlaia: except against
Great Britain, and he thought it a kind of faise
charge to charge other oatioas. It had the appeai-
ance of tiraiility. GeDtlemco had said there was
■othtDg but newspaper inforinatioa to i
if there were no more, this, he thought,
safficieol grouod to imjuire into the fact. There
would be an exjKQSc indeed of five or tea thou-
sand dollars, but he thought it belter to pay this
EDm than thatasioglecitizea should lie in chains.
He vas of opinioa that there had not been too
much but too little sensibility discovered ou this
occauon.
Mr.BouBNB said, that tbegenllemau vihosjwke
last had otijected to the retoluiion because it in-
cluded other nations with the British, though a
member, io the course of the present debate,liad
mentioned an instance of a French privateer hav-
ing so notoriously abused vome American seamen,
that the commander of the vessel was cashiered
on a representation being made to that Govern-
meitt. With respect to the information wanted
by the geaile;man from South Carolina, he wished
him to recollect what had happened at Rhode
Island at a time when Qovemment was sitting
there. Nine citizens, he said, were discovered
bound in fetters on board a British vessel and
taken out of it ; and it is possible, added he, that
this may be the situation of numbers of citizens
of the United States. Me approved of the resolu-
tion, because it made it the FMESinENT'a duly to
appoint the agents, and the duty of the House to
•ppropriale the ntoney.
Mr- Reed said, it seemed to be a doubt whether
any American citizen was at present in the power
of the British. Bishop White had mentioned to
him, he said, that he ba^ lately received a letter
from an American tailor on board a British ship
itow lying at Halifax, whose mother lives in this
city, entreating that some interfereoca might be
BMe cm Itu behalf.
Mr. Giles did not wish toeneroaetion tbedtity
of the Prbsidknt, nor did he think it woidd b«
■ny, to say agents should be appointed, and leave
it to him to appoint them. He was of opinion
with the loemtwr from Rhode bland, that Araeri'
can eilizens should be attended to io other cotm-
tii^ as well as in Great .Britain. He had not
beard of any impressments but br Ihe British, but
he had heard of captivities ; and that House had
heard of a French officer being cashiered for ill-
treating American eilizenn ; but it had heard no in-
stance iri^ Great Britain punishing officers for ill-
treating American citizens. No; this marked the
different cbamster of the two nations towards the
AmnieaiU'
A rinog of the Committee being caiUfti for, it
KD^ Kforted progress, and aaked leave to nit
again.
Mr. W. Smith prescoind a report from the
Committee of Ways and Means, reapecting an
4lh Cos.— 14
appropriation for the Military Department, who
recommended a resolution to the following e^ct:
" Baohtd, That the mn of five hundred thausand
dolkn bfl ^sfipropnaled tonards the dsbaying of the
Military Establuhinent lor the ;au 1790."
Read a second time, and ordered to be recom-
miited to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
Adjourned.
TBBai>AV, March 1.
A memorial was presented from Richard Ta-
bum, praying for a law to be enacted to encourage
the introdnciion of the Useful Arts into this coun-
try, by allowing citizens who prevail with foreign-
ers to bring over their discoveries Io this country,
to participate with them in tiie advantages to be
derived therefrom. After some conversation on
the propriety of admillinglhis memorial to be re-
ferred to the committee to whom was referred
tht hill for the encouragement of the Useful Arts,
it Was ordered for the present to lie on Ihe table.
MILITAaY APPEOPiUATIONS.
The House having agreed to postpone the un-
finished business of yesterday, to take up the re-
port of tbo Committee of Wayi and Means for an
appropriation for the Military Establishment for
1796, presented yesterday— the House accord-
ingly resolved itself into a Committee of the
Whole, and went through the r^rt without
amendment. It was suggested by Mr. NtcaoLiB
whether a less sum than $500,000 would not be
suffioient for thfe present provisional supply. Mr.
W. Smith and Mr. SEtwwicK said that a less
sum might answer the present purpose, hut that
it would make no real difference whether two
hundred or Bye hundred thousand dollars were
granted, being only on account of the eipendt-
ture, which would require, it was supposed, near
a mUlion and a half of dollars. As the bill passed
through the House, Mr. Gali.atin observed, that
if any member wished a less sum to be granted
farthepreseni,alesssummightbe agreedio. No
amendment being proposed, the report was agreed
to, and referred to the Committee of Ways and
Means to bring in a bill.
TREATY WITH GREAT BBTTAm.
following Message was received from the
EST OP THE United States :
Qmtlaaax eflAt Senaie, and
of the Houtt ofRearettntatha.-
The Trea^ of Amitj, Commeree, and NsTigition,
etmcluded between the United Btatei of America and
His Britannic M^eaty, having been duly ratified, and tbe
ratificationj hning been eichnnsed at London on the
98th day of October, 1796, 1 have directed the same to be
pioniulgatedi and herewith tmnimil ■ copy tbereof Jbr
the hilbnnation of Congress.
0. WASHINGTON.
Uhitid Stitm, l&reh I, IT96.
The note from the Pa bbiuent accompanying
the Treaty, and the additional article being r«d,
the Treaty and papers accompanying it were re-
ferred to the Committee ol the Whole on tbe
state of the Union.
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
R.orR.]
nnptfunent of Afncricttn Seonfftu
[MaBAh, I79S.
AMEHIGAN SEAMEN.
The order of tbe day on the report for providing
relief to Amaricao seamen, being taken up,
Mr. SwAirwiOE rose to in/brm the House, that
since be was in his place yesterday^ he had been
called upon with evidence on the subject doit be-
fore the Committee, in consequence ot the cell
made for it ia the course of the debBie. The in-
stances he had given to him were, the cas« of
Robert Norris, a native of Princeton, iq New Jer-
sey, and fire albersj who sailed on board the
American brig Matilda, Captain Burke, from
Philadelphia, which sailed from this port in May
last, for Bordeaux, and were, oo the Sth of July,
brought to by four British frigates, forcibly taken
out of the vessel, impressed, and compelled to go
and serve on tipard one of the said frigates called
the Stag, where ihey served four months, when
the saia Hobeil Norris made bis escape from the
frigate at Sheeroess, at the risk of Hi* life, and
returned in JaDiiary last to the United Slates.
Ub companions he believes are yet in bondage.
The other instance was the brig Sally Captain
Wilkbs, whieh sailed from this port in May last,
bound to Madeira, and five days after leaving the
Capes yna broOKht lo by the Rattlesnake sloop-of-
war, Captain Yotk, and the mate (a native of
Scotland, but who bad sailed for many years ont
oflbit United Stales) and oneof the best seamefi,
{an American,) taken ont. They were carried to
Halifax, from whence the foremast man made
his escape, and arrived here the beginning of
July. Before they arrived at Halifax, he informs,
that fifteen men were taken out of American ves-
sels. Mr. B. read also an account from an owner
erf' several other impreasments.
Ur. Maoiboh said, if tbe motion a nder discus-
sion was meant to supersede the appointing of
agents, he should object to it. Perhaps, he said,
a question might arise whether an a^eni of this
kind might be an officer of the United States.
But, however this might be, the Constitution said
that no office could be created and filled by the
same power ; this bei^ the case, that Honst
ought to establish the omce, and leave the PbesI'
DENT to fill it. Besides if it be the intention of
the House to furnbh relief to the objects eontem-
tled, they should designate the mode i and no
ibt could be entertained but that agents spe-
cialljr appointed wouM be preferable to Consuls.
But if the present motion was agreed to, it would
be dismissing the plan of appointing agents, and
leaviB^it to the Pbesiobrt to appoint them or not.
He hoped therefore the original resolution, and
not the amendment, wtnild be agreed to.
Hr.W.LvMAif opposed the motion on the same
ground aRye^erday.
Mr. 8. Smit'h said that it vras true the Pbesi-
»ENT had already the power to appoint agents.
and the annual vote of forty thousand dollars for
foreign intercourse would give him the means,
bill that he could not pursue the liberating of our
seamen so well without as he would with such a
law as the resdiuiinn contemplated. In addition
to the instances given of American seamen being
impressed, he read some accounts of impress'
ments from a Baltimore paper, made recently at
Cape Nicbola Mole, one of which stated thai one
hundred and fifty Americans were on board one
frigate on that station. Mr. S. concluded by say-
ing that if a law passed agreeably to the resoltl-
lion, it would show the nations of Europe that
we would no longer submit to the iiijuries done
our seamen.
Mr. Habper said, he should give his concur-
rence to the amendment, as most likely to obtain
information of, and furnish relief to, American
seamen ; for, though be differed from certain gen-
tiemen, he was not less a friend to that useful
body 01 men than they. He supporled,as befwe,
the reasonableness of grounding every proceeding
of that House upon due evidenoe.
Mr. Baldwin said, if the amendment was con*
sidered as his, he should not think it of sufficient
importance to delay the matter. Of the two
means, he thought it the best, and gave his rea-
SMis for that opmion. The Constitution, he said,
supposed that the Executive would always create
as many officers as were necessary, and the Le-
gislature had the power of checking too great a
multiplication of tnem.
Mr. LiriNOBTOH was more and more convinced
of the propriety of the original resolution, and of
appointing agents sjiecially for the purpose. He
mentioned an affecting instance oi the impress-
ment of an American seaman, and touched upoit
some of the arguments which he yesterday nsed
in support of the measure.
Mr. BouBNB wished the resolutioa to be as ge-
neral BE possible. Tlie Pbebident, he said, had
seat an agent to the West Indies, and he doubted
not that lie had authority to relieve American
seamen : if so, there was no necessity for provid-
ing by law fbr a special agent. If this should ap-
pear necessary wnen they received idformation
from the Secretary of State on the subject, they
might provide accordingly. It may appear, per-
haps, that the Consuls in uifferent ports hare al-
ready received instructions to inquire into the
state of impressed sespien. He defended the con-
duct of the member from South Carolina, and
thought much had been said against faim, unne-
cessarily, on acconni of his difference of opin-
ion on the present question. Mr. B. concluded,
by observing that he doubted not that the
evil complained' of existed, and that when oSicial
statements were received, they wonld folly «•■
tablish the fact. He hoped the amendment would
be adopted.
Mr. OalLATiit wished yesterday that tha reso-
tion might be made as general as possible, and
that nothing might be inclnded in it that could
\ offence to any branch of Government. On
consideration of the subject, he had, however,
found that, without appaintiUK an agent, the de-
sired effect would not oe produced. The Prebi-
SENT, he said, has the power to appoint Ministers,
Consuls, or Ambaasadors. it was necessary they
should designate the kind of agent they meant to
appoint. The PaceineMT has the power lo ap-
point agents of inquiry, but he has no power to
appoint an agent in an official capacity. The re-
.dbyGoogle
BS/TOHY OF CONQKESS.
Impt tmmmU of AmmeOm S»amm.
[H-orR.
wlution, be said, weat to two objeets : the flrst,
that of icqairy into tfae state oTAmviiaui sea-
men, migbt be attained by an agent appointed by
the PsEaiDBHT) but eo for as telates lo obtainiag
relier, it is Decesaarjr for the Legislatoie to appoint,
an agent To show (hat thii disltDction -was a
good ooe, he raid, there was now a proposittoa
made either to the House, or to the Cominittee
of Ways and Means, for ue amoimnunt of aa
official agent to go to Holland. This ahowa the
opinion ot the Esecutive on the aubjecl. Uoleas.
ihetefoie, it was meant to proaeente the propoMd
iaquirj by meana of the Coosnls, the amendmeat
musi be rejected. It was not necaasary to desig-
nate the residenoe of agents ; indeed, it appeared
nutlet of donbi whether they had power to ap-
point BD aMut to reude in the British Colonies in
the Wait Indies. He should wish the* terms to
be general, leaving the particular places of resi-
dence to be fixed upon afterwards. He wished,
therefore, the words for appointing agents' to be
retained.
Mi. SEDowtcx said, he was yesterday prerenled
from attending the House by indisposition. The
subject stTDck his mind, he said, in MTeral points
of riew which had not been noticed. He
surprised why the business was undertaken in
way it was. No description of men, he said, ^
more entitled to regard than seameni but this did
not reconcile the adoption of the subject in
manner proposed. The Executive, Tie ws
opinion, would consider itself as cnarged with
this businesa. An agent who is neitiier C<
nor Minister, is an instniaient unknown, an unde-
fined character— a character that would not be
recognised, ll was impossible, he said, for any
two ^»<^ one in Great Britain and the other in
the West Iitdiea, to gain infonnation of the suf-
feiinga of seamen in different parts of the two
countries, partietilarly in Great Britain. He called
upon gentlemen to say whether they had ever
heard of such a character as they were proposing
lo create? He said America had Consuls in every
part of the world ; and if they have not, they
ought to have salaries for the businesa. Why
appoint agents, and what authority will they barel
Were there, Mr. S. asked, any information before
the House of remissness of duty in the Biecu-
tivel He was of opinion all due care had been
taken for the protection and security of citi
of the description alluded to. Had no inquiry
been mads of the Secretary of State on the sub-
ject? It was well known that neutral nations
will always be exposed to injury whilst war ex-
isted. Insolence of office, he said, would serve to
widen breaches uf this lort, and American cili-
leni speaking the same language with the Eng-
lish, were more than others liable lo injuries.
Mr. S. noticed the different kinds of Ameriean
citizens, and of the difficulties arising from the
doctrine of inalienable right, supported by thi
Enrlish; and observed that when two countrie:
each claim a right to a man, no means but force
waa left to decide between them. He concluded,
by observing that whilst thia oouniry had Con-
sals whnae bnaiMas it waa to aWnd W the dia-
ea of sailors, h« conld see no reason fo( ap-
pointing agents. Nc» was he prepared to go into
the question, until he was coascious there had
been remiaauess in the Executive.
Mr. Williams observed, that he was of^wsed
to the amendident, because it would not, m his
opinion, extend to the relief intended. But he
did not suppose the Executive had been rembs in
duty, or any officer ia the Government j or that
the Minister in a late negotiation did not exert
himself to prevent the abuses complained of; but
finding every measure heretofore adopted inef-
fectual, ought thev not to point out some other
mode? Whilst the evil exists, let not, said he,
our fellow-cilizena languish under British croelty
and op^ession. The resolution, as reported in
its presentvtate, contemplaies the appointment of
agents to reside in the most proper places, to re-
ceive information^ and pursue such measures as
prudence diall dictate. This method, said h^
will he a guide to the PnxsinEirT; and the will
of the Legislature wiU be carried into eieention ;
but if the amendment prevails, it will then leave
the resolution upon sucn general principles as to
afford no specific direction ; will add nothii^ to
the auihoritie* which the pRESinERT now pos-
sesses, nor give any new direction, and Will
therefore leave the bnaineaa exactly where it wu
found.
Mr. S. Smrta shotild not have risen again, had
it not been for what had fallen from a membar
tJtom Massachusetts. That gentleman said we
had Consuls everywhere; bm he believed ihay
had Consuls scarcely anywhere. He answered
what had fallen from a member from Maasacho-
seits respecting th» inquiry at the office of the
Secretary of State ; members in that House, he
said, too frequently bottomed their arguments da
the credit of the pRBSinBirr; he believed no man
had a higher value for him than he bad ; but it
was enough for him that the unfortunate tncn
whose cases they were considering needed relief,
to join in bringing fi»ward the present subject ;
nor, in doing tnis, did he mean to reflect on the
Executive. He touched upon several argnmeota
which he used yesterday, and concluded, by cit-
ing a number of hardnhips experienced bf Ame-
rieaa seamen from the cruelty of the Btiiiah.
Mr. GiLBGBT wished not to precipitate this mat-
ter until the necessary informatim could be got
from the Secretary <tf Sute. He wished the Com-
mittee to rise.
Mr. SBoawioc explained, and mentioned five
Consuls in England.
Mr.SwiNWion explained the nature of the Con-
sular character, and said, though there w^e fire
in England, there were none at the seaports
where the British ships of war prbcipally lay,
viz : Portsmouth, Chatham, Bbeemess, dkc, oar
any in Scotland or Ireland. In the West Indies
there was no Consul ; and it was necessary to
have attention paid to Halifax and Bermuda,
where many Ameriean seamen lie. The expense
in effecting this business, he said, would be con-
siderable ; but this was no objection ; it waa a
meaMire neceaaary to preserve to the country the
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OP CONGHKSS.
i.B.]
Impramuntof Amerieaa Seanun.
[MxHoa, 1796.
Utm and nsefulneas of « valuahle body of meo.
Mr. S. oezt alluded to what had been said about
die propoied BgeDls being of a aondescript cha-
racter, aod beliered the Brittdb would treat them
with as much respect aa any other officer of thr
AiDerimii GoveTDineDt. No reflAtion was roeaut
by this view of it to be throwD upou any body :
Ibey sal there, he said, as legihlaiors, and when
they talked about burllas the feelings «f such
ajad such officers, he thougbl they were misspend-
ing their time. The present measures, Mr. S. said.
were aot only calculated to produce relief for
preaeot BufiTerers, but prevenlion from future eriis,
by giving certificates to every citizen seaman :
and he hoped tbia would induce merchants to
take apprentices to the sea-faring business; and
by that means build up a valuable body of sea-
ineD, which will be of greater wealth to toe coun-
try than the mines of Mexico or Peru. He con-
cluded, by supporting the original resolution, and
against the amendment-
Mr. QiLBsaT explained.
Mr. HiLLBOOBE believed the great diversity of
opinion on the subject before the House, arose
from a wish to determine upon the best possible
way of serving the class of men who were the
object of their present inquiry. It has been said
that America had only five Consuls in England,
but surely these five Consols would be belter able
to do the business in question than one solitary
agent. He thought a Consul General might be
appointed, who shonld have the power to call
ujK>n all other Consuls for assistance to carry into
enect the business upon which he was commis-
sioned.
Mr. JsaBMiatt Shitb proposed to combine the
two places of agents and CoDsuls together, bv
laaving it optional with the PsEaiDEifT, whtcn
plan he tLonght best in each particular case.
Mr. Maoibon acain urgted the propriety of
adopting the plan of a^nts, in preference to Con-
mi^ ana showed that in adopting this plan, they
conra not be considered as wanting in respect to
die Eiecutive.sincethey would b« doing noma
than theu: dnty.
The question being called for, the amendment
was last— ^beine 33 for it, and 53 against ii.
The ortginaf resolution was then carried, after
striking out the words "such part of."
The second clause being read, Mr. QoooBnG
and Mr. Jxrbmiah Bmith remarked upon the diffi-
culties which would attend the registering of sea'
men. They were replied to by Mr. Livinoston,
who wax of opinion it was perfectly practicable.
In speaking of the difierent kinds of American
citizens, Mr. L. spoke of those who were nativi
of other coDriIrie& but who had sought sn asylui
under the American Oovernment. and quoted .
great number of ancient and modem authors, and
even some English acts of Parliament, to prove
that " man has an inherent right to go into whai~
ever country he pleases, and by residing there, and
conforming to its laws, become a citizen thereof."
After wniob, the report was agreed to, and the
Committee rose. It then ooderwent a eoniider-
atioa ID the Hotue, and after a nambci of otoerva-
tions with respect to the propriety of two or three
difierent amendments, if was agreed to, with an
amendment, proposed by Mr. Swakwick. to strike
out the words "Wen Indies," io order that Hali-
fax and Bermndn might aot be excluded.
The report, thus amended, is in the following
" Kaohed, That pruTinon aught to be msde for the
sappoTt of two or toon agents, (o be Bppoinl«d bj the
Piiindent of the United Slsten, by and With the advice
■nd consent of the Benate ; the one of which agenta
shall reside in the Kingdom of Orest Britwn, and the
othen at such places h the PrsaidBnt wbtii direct;
whoae d\iV/ it iImII be to Inquire into the Ntoatiati of
such American citiiens as shall have been, or hereaAv
may be, imprened or dstained on boud of any foreign
ve»el ; to endeavor, by all legal means, to obtain their
release, and to render an account of all fbreign impraB-
tnents of Ameiican citizens to the Govu^mient ^ the
United States.
" Raoleed, That proper offices oogbt to be provided,
where eveij sesman, being a eitiicn of the United States
(oo producing evidence, duly authenticated, of his birth,
naturalization, or residence within the Uoited Stalea,
and under their protectionl on the third day of Septen^
ber, one thousand aeven hundred and eighly-three) mav
have such evidence registered, and may re
cate of his dtimuihip."
ree)niBy
acerttfl-
BoDSNE, Mr. SwAHtncK, Mr. S.
Smith, and Mr. W. Smith, do prepare and bring
WsttNEsDaT, March 2.
A bill for making a partial appropriation for
the Military Establishment for the year 1796, was
read a first and second lime, and committed to a
Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
It was moved that the coosideratioo of the Land
Office bill, which was the order of the day, should
be laid aside, to take up the consideration of Uie
subject of the Naval Equipment ; but after some
observation E for and against the postponement, the
sense of the House was taken, wnen there appear-
ed for it 27, agamst it 41.
Mr. Bourne wished a Letter that had been
mentioned to have been received from the War
Office might be read. It was produced and read
accordingly. It contained an account of the ma-
terials wanted, the money expended, and what
would yet be required to complete the bnildingof
the frigates. Referred to th^ Contmittee on the
Naval Equipment.
Mr. LiviNaaTON said, that it was generally un-
dl.'r^tco<l that sooil' impurtaiit Cou^titutional quea-
tioos would be discussed wlicn the Treaty lately
concluded between thiscountry and Great Britain
shonld come under consideration; it was ver*
desirable, ihcrefurc, that every document which
might tend to throw light on the subject should
be before the House. For this purpose, he would
move the following resolution :
" SetakMd, That the Preatdeat of the Unitad BMss
ba NqosaMd to lay befina diia Haoa a oaf7 of the ia-
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
MiRCB, 1796.]
IruUan TVading Baagf—Northwatem Land Office*.
[H.c
itnictioBi given to tlia Minirter of the Uoited Btstw
who nogotuled the Treatr with Gre»t Briuin. cmniaD-
nicated bj hii Menage on the fint imtant, together
with the Bomtpondeace and other docomcDti relatira
10 the uid Treat;."
Ordered to lie on the table.
INDIAN TRADING HOUSES.
Mr. PABrEB biored that the unfinished business
night be poatponed, to take up the considerHtion
of the report of the select commillee to n-hnni
was referred ihe amendments of the Senate to the
bill for eslabllshiag trading houaea with the ladian
tribes. The House agreeing to thia auestioa, the
report and amendiaeiits were read, nneo
Mr. Parker, one of the committee, gave the
reasons which induced them to recommend to the
House to diaairree to the amenduienis of the Se-
nate. He saiS Ihev went to alter the principle of
the bill. The bill took precautions to prevent
GoTernmcDt from suffering loss, but one of the
proposed amendments puts it in the power of the
Pbesidewt to alter the priceof merchandise, as he
loaf think proper. The bill fixed the sum of six
ihoDsand dollars for the payment of six agents,
which was thought both Ijy the late and present
Secretary at War to be sufficient; but the Senate
baa struck out the clause, and left it to the Prebi-
OEMT to appoint as manV agents and to pay them
what snm he pleases. The bill has directed that
offenders agamsl the act shall be tried and punish'
ed in the vicinity where they lire; but the Se-
nate propose that offenders shall be taken and tried
anywhere. It may be said that ofibnces against
this act would be of the same nature as a debt;
bat, he said, to be so tried, would take away the
great pririlege of the Habeas Carpus act ; that it
was one of the grievances complained of when
this country waii under British tiovernnient, that
they were removed into that country to be tried.
The principle of these amendments, he said,
unounted to this, that the Pbb8idei*t should sell
goods at what price he pleased, gire what salary
he chose to agents, and try oQendera a^inst the
act where he thonght proper.
Mr. Sedowick hoped the amendmeDtt woald
be considered wparatcly.
Tbe first mmeadment being read, respecting the
apnoiatpaent of agents-
Mr. HiLLHOUBB hoped the House would agree
to the Bmendmenl, He saw no inconvenience in
leariik^ it to the PissiDBirr to appoint agents and
fix theiF sahiries, as they might be employed in
other btisineas, whii^h, at present, persons are spe-
cially employed to tranaact, under a former act.
Hr. Pabkbr said, this act was meant to intro-
duce a friendly intercoDrse with the Indians, ftnd
ought to hare no connexion with any other ousi-
Sorae [^iMrTBtions took place between Mr. J.
Smith, Mr. Pabkbb, Ur. Sbbowick. and another
member, on the propriety of the wordidg of one of
the clauies of the bill, which was at lei^tfa allow-
ed to be right.
Mr. GiLBB said the question was, whether one
hnndred Bad fifty thoaaaad dollars, the sum pro-
posed to carry into effect the bill in question
ihould be given up to the sole direction of Ihe
?BE9i0EnT, or whether that House would direct
how it was to be disposed of. It was the first tim^
he said, that a proposiiion had been made that the
Prbbideht should be allowed to i^ire salaries ad
Wtitum. The bill provided that six thousand dol-
lars should be paid Yor salaries, but it would be
very improper that the whole sum for carrying
the act into effect should be put in the power tn
the Bxecutire. He said he had never any san-
guine .expectations from this bill, but had no ob-
jection Id the experiment being tried.
Mr. Jebehiab Smitb believed it wan ri^ht to
limit the power of carrying into etTeet (his bill,
but thought six thousand dollars loo small a sunt
to be allowed for agency. He said it was coit-
templatedto have six trading houses, and it would
be necessary that each shomd have a clerk, who
would expect five hundred dollars, so that there
would remain only three thousand dollars for ^e
six agents. He supposed an alteration would
therefore be necessary in the sum. As a confer-
ence would most likely take place between the
two Houses, he thought it best to disagree to the
amendment, in order that the clause imght be dif-
ferently modified.
Mr. Hiu.BonBB a^in spoke in fkvor of the
Pbesivent'b appointing the agents, in order that
he might employ them in other business, and by
that means save an expense to the public.
Mr. MtLLEOQB was of opinion that the ngenti,
appointed under this act, should he confined to the
business of it alone.
Mr. Deabbohn said it would require a ray dif-
ferent person to be employed in a trading aoue
from those employed in distributing articlea to the
Indians, the act for authoriziikg which he believed
expired thia session. He thought the snm wotild
be fixed for salaries ; but he thought six thousand
dollars far too little, and he believed it should be
twelve thousand.
The motion being put, on agreeing to the re-
port of the committee to reject the srat ameiid-
ment, it was carried. The other amendments
were severally put, and, afler a few remarks, four
of them were agreed to, and four rejected; and
the Clerk wvi directed to acquaint the Seaate
therewith.
LAND OFFICES N. W. OP THE OHIO.
The House resolved itself mto a Committee <tf
tbe Whole, on the bill for eatabliahing Land Offi-
ces for tbe sale of the North Western Territory.
The amendment proposed for selling the land by
auction being under consideration-
Mr. Baluwin said he was in favor of the amend'
ment He was not disposed to encourage, in his
own mind, too great suspicions of the integrity of
individitals ; but it is not to be forgotten-, said lie,
in making the proviaions of this land law, that it
it to be carriea into operation in times singularly
exposing it to a mercenary and unfaithful execn-
ion. We must temper our laws to what we see
o be the stale of the coontiy. Philoto^era and
politiciant, in some agea, have made ucft sueoeM-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESB.
H.OPR.]
I/dHkvetttm Land Office*.
[Uabdb, 1796.
fill addrenes to buniiii nature, on the subject of
honor, virtue, pBtrioiiam, and r^rd to the public
inieresl, that reputaUe men despised appeaniig' to
begovetaedin their actiooa by pecuniary consiaer-
ations; but philosophers ana politiciacs with us
htve oflale made their inost imporiuDaleaDd lae-
catsful addresses lo other passions, and hare ex-
cited the insatiable sordid ptisioD of avarice to an
oounial deme. Speculation and making money
an rarely loond in a more lagina exti«me, and
9 rarely foond in a more lagina ,
persons whom we hare supposed worthy of onr
confidence and esteem, publicly practising the
meanest and most disgraceful arts and tricks of
awiadliug; and instead of beins exhibited to pub-
lie infamy in the uUory, they snow an uublushing
front in a very difiemt mttudon. When meh
men, said be, are publicly patronized and treated
with respect, it is necessary to take care how we
■offer the ezecnlion of our land law lo depend on
the disinterestedness of an wdiriduai.
Mr. CoOFEB was in favor of seUing by auction.
No man, he said, woold be at the trouble and ez-
pcutae of ^zplorin^. the country without some cer-
tainty of purchasmg. But if the bill remained
in its present form, a farmer might travel and ez-
ptore (bese lands, and when he goes to the nscred
Land Office, with his money in his haad. the agent
might easily inform some favorite speculator what
was the highest sum tiered, so that he mi^t ad-
vance some trifle upon it Why, said he, adopt a
secret {Jan, when an open one can be adopted
With greater advantage? He referred to the State
of New York, as a ptoof of the preference due to
the public mode of selling.
Mr. Ektohell said he was one of the
.__ , ,. , . I but from what he had
heard advanced on the subject, and from seriously
eonsidering the matter, he was now of oi»aion that
a «la by auction would be best. He knew there
were objections to be utsed against that mode of
■dlins, out he trusted they would be mostly ob-
Mr. HiLLBODiE also said, from observation and
Mflection, he was now in favor of selling tbe land
bf auction. He hoped that salt springs and other
TVloable lots woola be reserved for the use of
Govcrament. He had no idea of bringing the
whole of the land into the market at once, and
would therefore preserve that clause of the bill
which maken two dollars the lowest price at which
any part of the land shall be sola. He would
hare i^cea opened m which applications should
be made for any lot of land that might be chosen,
which should be advertised and pablicly sold;
and'he would have no parcel of land oSered for
sale, which was not fixed upon by some person,
and then there would always be a certainty of one
Iridder at least. By this means, he donbted not, i
good price would be got for all the best tracts of
hnd.
Ur. Isaac Smitb was in favor of selling by
vaodne, as he hoped it would preclude tbe possi-
feility of deception or fraud.
Mr. HAvaNS spoke in lavei of public sales, but,
ka said, if the mutimnm price was set loo high, it
would areveat competition in bidding. The bill
was objectionable, as it c(MitemiJated only one
plan; if the whole of the land b not sold by the
present plan, there is no provision for selling the
rest. If the map was looked at, he said, it would
appear to be most convenient not to dispose of the
whole at ouoc. but only particular parts. He
thought the bill should describe such parts of the
laiid as sbould be sold.
Mr, Moore thought that if a mode Iras adopted
for persons inclineato purchase to offer their pro-
posals in writing, unsealed and open to inspection,
for (he smalt lots, it would afford the best oppor-
tunity of suiting persons who might wish to be-
Mr. CoiT wished to make a motion to strike out
e whole of the section. It was his o^iinion they
ought to proceed no further in the busmen, until
they had causicd a survcv of the land lo be taken.
It was uofortuoate for uc House that ihcy were
legislating on a subject upon which they had very
little information. In tbe course of tbe next sea-
soQ, he said, (he land mie ht be surveyed, and iin-
portant advantages would arise from i(, in the sale
of the land, by (be quality of soil, situation, Ac,
being distinctly marked on the map. The sale
migEi then be regularly entered upon. At present
he thought the House had too little knowledge of
the land to fiz upon such a plan of sale as shall
produce the greatest advantage.
Mr. NioHOLAB thou^t that the present was the
le to dispose of the land, when speciUation wm
SO high a pitch. The fixing upon a plan of
surveying would take up as much time as the
selling ofthe land. They would be perfectly safe,
he said, in selling by auction, and fixing a mini-
mum price ; and no error, he was of opinion, could
take place in the sales.
Mr. W. LvMAH hoped the section would not be
struckout. Theadvantageofsellingatpresentwas
great, owing to emigratioD, and if the land be not
sold, it will be taken possession of without sale:
and if settlements begin on that pruiciple, it will
deprive the United States of gtaat advantages-
Mr. Dattoh (the Speaker) said, it was well
known to gentlemen that there was plemy of laud
to bej purchase^ whether Oovemment agreed lo
open a Land Office or not, and except in providing-
for a survey, a sale is also provided for, the conse-
quence will be, that persons will bay land of others,
who hare it to sell in the neighborhood of these
lands. Another ihiiw: as the sale of this land re-
spected revenue, so far from providing a revenae
by the plan of surveying proposed, a certain great
expense will be incurred. The present emigra-
tions, he said, were great, and likely to increase,
from the opening m the Mississippi and other
causes. Tbe object sbould be, he said, to bold
out inducements to these people to wait for these
lands. He was in favor of me mode of setting
by auction; but, as that was not at present the
sub^t before the Committee, he should wish the
section to remain, in order to consider the amend
Mr, KiTOBBLL said, that the speedient nanncr
.dbyGoogle
HISTQBT OF CONGRESS.
406
!,17«6.]
NorthaeeMlem tjoiut C^ku.
[H-ofR.
of biinging forward laud iato the market, would
be of the giealest adranta^ ia all respeeta.
Mr. CoiT supported his motioa. It waa said,
he observed, that if the land was not sotd , it wouM
be settled upon. He said it would take up nearly
as much time to make a survey for sale, as to carry
into effect the plan fae proposed.
The, motioa was put and negatived.
The motion for selling by auction being put,
wu agreed to.
Mr. Nicaoi^e moved to strike oat a part of a
section,and insert the words, "Prtmded, That no
patt of the said land be sold for less than two dol-
lars per acre."
Mr. CooPBR wished the House might not deter-
mine, to fix the lowest price of the land at two
dollars per acre. Many millions of acres were
now selung, he said, on the Ohio, foT three shil-
lings on long credit. He thought if the minimum
pitcewas fixed at ten shiUiogs, it would not affect
the price of good land.
Mr. Datton (the Speaker^ said it was not
meant to sell the whole of the land at present, hut
onlv a certain proportion. For this purpose, two
dollars per acre is the price fixed upon as the
bweat; and if this price were not sufficiently
high to prevent more than from five to 800,000
acres ofthe best land being sold the first year, he
should advise it to be higher. The following
Siaj a like quantity might be brought foiward.
y this means, the land will progress in value as
itoeeomea settled, and the land cT second or third
quality, ia the course of a short time, will come
ta be worth as much. as the best land at the open-
iiut of the sale.
Mr. Williams thought the plan proposed would
prevent more land from being sold at first than
would be purchased by settlers, and cause a com-
petition in the sale. He thought there were
many tncts of the land worth doable the price
mentioned, but a ale by auction would find its
real value.
Ur. HnATB thought the minimum price of the
land too high-
Mr. DnAjtnoMi believed a very great propor-
tion of the land first sold would command a con-
the subject, the more he was convinced there
no safe jdau to be adopted in the sate of this land
without limiting the price. And if a low price
was filed, in order to accommodate persons of
soull property, they should fall into error. He
said thisre were two kinds of purchasers of lands,
settlers and speculators. The demand of the
first class is always limited, and the remainder
bUs into the hands of speculators, and tbey will
be induced to purchase only by a prospect of
WofiL In the year 1792 all the land west of the
uhio was disposed of to speculators at U. Gd per
acn, and in a week afterwards sold for a dollar ;
and a half; so tbat the money which ought to.
have gone iato the funds, went into the pocket of
the mmeyed men who purchased. In order to
^vern the price of the land in contemplation, it
IS necenary to inqnire at what price land in the
lei^borhood sells for. This inquiry haa beca
made, and it is found, that land as good in quality
sells for double and treble the price put upon this.
Speculators cannot afford to give this price; the
consequence will be, that those only who mean to
settle will give the price. This will prevent too
large a quantity from comiag into the market at
once, and give Gkivernment tfiat money which
speculators would get were a lower price fixed
apon the land.
The motion was put and carried,
Mr. Gallatin said that it had now been M:reed
that the land should be sold by auction, andT that
no lot should be sold for a less price than (wu io3r
iars per acre. If in order, he would move a pro-
vision that the large tracts should be sold at the
Seat of Government, and the small ones in the
Western' Territory. He proposed this provision,
as he believed it would meet the wishes of die
House, though be was of opinion it would be best
to sell the whole in the Territory, as he con-
ceived, that no person would give two dollars pcx
acre, except such as were acquainted with the
quahty and situation of the land ; the conclusion
is, that a man who wishes to purchase must send
an agent to examine the land before he purchases
and when he is upon the spot, tie can purchase
without further trouble. This would be the moat
eqnitable and equal way. WhereBs,irsold at the
Seal of Government, an advantage is given to
such as live in the neighborhood ; liut, as he did
not expect it to pats, he did not wish to move
this proposition. He moved first, "that the sip^
lots be sold upon the Western Territory."
Mr. Williams wished w»ne specific place to
be mentioned.
Mr. Gallatid thought that different parts of
the land would sell belter at one place, and other
perts at other places.
Mr. Havens thought the proposed plan of sale
would yet favor speculators too much ; for, when
agents were sent to explore the lands, they would
become acquainted with the value of small tracts
as well as large, and enter into competition widi
the settlers for them.
Mr. Dbahbohn said it appeared that the mem-
ber who spoke last was afniid of too great a com-
petition for the lands ; he thought there was no
great danger of getting too high a price for them.
The motion was put and agreed to.
Mr. NicBOLAB moved that it be added. " And
that the large tracts of land shall be sold at the
Beat of Qovernment."
Mr- Maclat was in favor of selling aD the
lands upon (he Territory-
Mr. NicaoLAs said there would be a f^eat ad-
vantage lost by selling the large lots on the Ter-
ritory ; for when agents are commissioned to buy,
they are limited to price, but when principals at-
tend a sale (which would most probably be the
case if sold at the Seat of Government) they are
irequently induced by competition to give more
for an estate than they at first intended-
Mr. Davton said, if the member who objected
lo the present motion, would apply to his (ormer
remarks on the subject, he could not support hif
.dbyG'oogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
fR.]
Nortlueettem Land O^cet.
objeciioQ. He said, the seDding or agents might
be of considerable adTaalage lo the sale of the
lots, as, on their return, their report would be
heard by many, and probably influence persons to
attend th« sale al l^e Beat of Gorerament; but,
if the sale were on the land, no such advantage
would arise from the mission of agents.
' Mr. RcTHEKFORD was in favor of the whole of
the lands being sold on the Territory.
Mr. Venable said, if the large tracts of land
were to be sold only at the Seat of OoV'
it WOnld be a great disadvantage to the
if a person goes from a very distant part of the
country to view the land, be will perhaps ha^e a
still longer journey to the Seat of Gkivemment
to make a purchase, as it is not to be presumed
that all persons who mean to purchare will er~
ploy agents. This vras a very serious inconi
nience^and he hoped it would not be agreed to.
The motion was put and carried.
Mr. HiLLRonaE thought it necessary lo add a
clause, in order to reserve all the salt springs for
the use of Government, Agreed to.
Mr. Ibaac Smith moved that a suitable
alion of land should be made for collies and
schools. Agreed to.
Mr. WiLLiAMB moved a clause to the following
efleci
" Provided one actual settler be not on ever;
acre* of land within yeira from the sale thereof
it shall return to the Govemment of the United States,
Ibe same as if no such sale had taken place."
Mr. Claibobne hoped (he lands themselves
would be sufficient inducement for settlers, and
that purchasers would be left at full liberty in re-
spect to settlement. He could never agree to any
regulation that should go to the taking away of
land from a purchaser who had fairly paid for it.
Mr. Nicholas and Mr. Goofbb were both
against the motion.
Mr. RoTHEBPORO was in favor of the motion.
Mr. Williams said, if the clause which was
leconimended was made a condition in (he pur-
chase, there was nothing unreasonable in it. It
was as necessary that the country should be set-
tled as that the land should be sold. Or shall it
be said that the honest, industrious settlers, shall
i made, in order to
.__ __^e of them ? The member frorn
Hew York who oppwsed this motion, knows that
the poor iniiabitanu on the new settled lands in
that State are obliged to do this. He thought
this clause very essential in the act.
Mr. Cooper replied, and the Committee rose,
and asked leave to sit again.
Wbdnebdat, March 3.
A message was received from the Senate an-
nouncing that they insist on their amendments,
disagreed to by this House, to the bill, entitled
until these
NORTHWESTGaN LAND OFFICES.
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole, on the bill for opening Land
Offices for the sale of the Western lands, and ilie
amendment proposing that there should be one
actual settler upon every acres of land, being
Mr. Havens wished to give some reasons why
he thought the amendment unnecessary. He
said it bad been introduced in (he State of New
York without effect; tbi-re was not rigor suffi-
cient in Government to carry !uch a clause into
effect. Besides, in order to avoid the forfeiture, a
purchaser miijht build a hut, put in a person for a
time, and then go off again. Another reason for
objecting to it was, when a certain number of in<
hnoitants shall have taken up their residence in
the country, it would be organized into a State,
and form itself into a Government, which coold lax
the property of non-residents. This would be
an effectual measure lo prevent the engrossing of
land. A like regulation had taken place in the
State of Vermont, which bad answered the pur-
pose, and be conceived always would have the
effect. He should, therefore, vote against the
amendment.
Mr. WiLUAHS said the rwulation he proposed
had not been carried into eSecl in the State of
New York, but it was owing lo the inBuence of
the Legislative body preventing it. It was intro-
duced Tour years ago; bat it was now pnt into
other hands, where the interest of great Uitd-
holders will not prevent its operation. Wer« land
sold in small tracts, it might be taxed in the way
Croposed ; but when stud in large tracts, the
olders of such tracts have generalFy too great an
interest in the Legislature of the State to pre-
vent a law passing to this salutary end. In the
State of New York, a tax of this sort was every
year proposed^ but always rejected by those
whose private interest would be affected thereby.
Mr. Gallatin was in favor of the amendment.
He conceived that the happiness and prosperity of
the country would be promoted by preventing
the lands, the sale of which they were contem-
plating, from being engrossed in few hands, and
he believed the provision now under considera-
tion, together witn the price fixed, would have
that effect. The only material objection to if is,
that it may diminish the revenue by reducing the
price that would otherwise l>e paiu for the land.
He thought this a specious objection, not a
solid one. He believed the regulation would pre-
le speculators from purchasing, bni he
thought it a beneficial thing that they should be
driven from the market. Lands which produced
nothing were of no real value. The high orice
expected must be got from real settlers alone.
The consequence will be, that a less quantity of
land will be sold, but a sufficient quantity to satis-
fy actual settlers will be disposed of, notwith-
standing this clause, and Government will pocket
the profit which speculators otherwise would
have bad. And, in the following year, the land
which would have been engrossed by speculators,
but for a' provision of thisliiDd, will be brought
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
lliBca,n9S.]
Northvetlwn Lemd Offitxa.
[H-opE.
ilto market to meet the demand of fttak settleTsi
at perhaps an ad ranced price.
It had been said, Mr. Q. abseiTed, ihat this r^-
nlatiao would hold out coo ^reat encouiagenieai
to emigralioD. Whethn thi» law passed or not,
the same number of men would go to ihu Und.
It mu nol from a distance thai emigrants were to
be expected, but from tracts -adjacent ; this clause
would inflict a penalty on men who purchased
lands with speculative views alone. With re-
spect to what had been said about an evasion of
toe act, it would be easy to define what constitu-
ted an actnal settler.
It has been said, that taxing non-residents would
Soduce the effect intended by this clause. Mr.
. thought differently. In the State of Pennsyl-
vania tti at practice nad been adopted; the taxes
laid upon persons of this description hav^ never
been suBGcient to induce settlement. They have
found their land increase more in value by means
of settlements taking place, than any aiaaunt ot
taxes laid upon it. It nas been said, that larger
taxes might be imposed ; but they will not be
paid. In the counlrv where he lived, the occu-
piers had been callea upon to pay their quota of
taxes which could not be got from non-residents.
He would ask gentlemen whether they wished
the land to be engrossed or not 1 and if they do
not, he wonld be glad if they could produce a
belter plan for preventing it than this. Before
the Revolution, a plan of this sort was adopted
from oite end of the country to the other, and he
believed it was owinff to this regulBtlon, that they
owed a zrcat deal oilhe happiness qnd prosperity
which they had since enjoyed. He wished, there-
fore, the example to be iollowed.
Mr. Cooper said few men could afford to pay
two dollars an acre, and none would pay it, ex-
cept those who meant to settle upon the land. It
was not well to make severe settling clauses.
Security would operate against them. In the
State of New Yorx the regulation could never
be pat in force.
Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) said, if the sole ob-
ect of the amendment had been to prevent the
nd being engrossed, it would have had his sup-
port: but he did not think it would have that
eflVct. He thought that fixing the price of the land,
which sbontd nol be less than two dollars per acre,
would prodnce this effect; but the propo.Hed regu-
lation, he thought, would have a different effect ;
it would reduce the price of the lend. He was
of opinion that land, which, without this clause,
would sell for four doUan an acre, with it, would
not sell for more than three and a half. Besides,
no Qovernnient ever ilid, or ever wonld, enforce
such a regulation. It would be holding out, also,
a premium to emigration, which, be trusted, was
not the inteniioti of the Legislature ; for perso
who purchased laud at three dollars and a half i
acre, to obtain settlers, might be obliged almost
give it away. Indeed, he thought it unneee.^sary
to multiply ar,|fuiiienls against a regulation calcu-
Itled to pt^uee so maov injurious consequences.
Mr. 8. Smith said it aid notappear to him that
the ameiidmeiK eouU bava any good efiect. No
law which countenanced injustice eould be cat*
ried into execution 1 and to takeaway land from
pnrchaser, after he had yhiXj paid for it, could
]t be accounted anything less, as perhaps it
might not be possible to gli men to settle upon
the land within the limitM time. For instance,
suppose a war was to take place with the Indians,
'' would be impossible to fulfil the contract. In
ch case, it will be said, petitions would be heard
for relief. The reflation, in his opinion, might
produce many evils. The large traces of lund, he
said, must be purchased by moneyed men, and
there ought to be no objeetion thrown in their
way.
Mr.HDTHEnFOHDthought the amendment ought
to be agreed to. He spoke highly of the people
living on the frontier. He heard fishermen sa^
that the best fish always rise highest, and bo it
was with the people, who wci^ the best on the
frontiers; they are not too jMlite to be religions;
they are hospitable and neighborly, and do not
employ their night* in noctnmalrevellin^ These
honest men suffer immense inconveniences by the
incursions of tbeir savage neighbors, the Indians ;
they cast theireyes about them for assistance, and
see nothing but large unoccupied tracts of lands,
whose owners, perhaps, are living secure in some
large city. This, be said, was distressing to them.
Without this ' amendment, he thought the bill
would have no good effect.
Mr. Claiborhb was sorry to differ in opinion
from his colleague on this subject. He thought
the land woula not be settled in half a century,
and that the amendment would he a clog on the
sale, by deterring men from purchasing. Thef
ought, he said, rather to throw out enconru«-
ments to induce men to become purchasers. Ex-
cessive laws, he said, were never executed, and
to adopt this measure would destroy the bill.
Mr. WiLLiAKS was confident hn amendment
would have the best effecta He believed no conn'
try was ever more speedily settled than the Ome-
see country, in the State of New York, in the law
for effecting which, there was a clause of this
sort It it said that the price of two dollars will
cause a settlement ; then, said he, where is the
harm of this clause? There is no forfeiture in-
curred in case of settlement. With reepect to the
regulation being a check to the sale, he believed
it wonld be a salutary check. Large lots may be
sold somewhat cheaper, but it would not anect
the price of small lots. There might be a provi-
sion in ease of an Indian war; the land, in that
case, should not be forfeited for want of settlers.
He referred to the practice in the State of New
York, and was certain thai this plan would event-
ually produce the most money, at the same time
that it would insure a settlement. The lands
should be paid for by instalments, aad by being
gradually brought in the market they would con-
stantly rise in value.
Mr. DAYTDit rose to explain, and again exprcw
ed his disapprobation of the amendmenL He said
non-residents might be taxed as high for their nn-
occupitM lands as were the occupiers of improved
lands, by which means they would be made U
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHt OF CONGRESa
H-oi-R.]
Nm^vettem Land Ofieet.
{Mabcb, 1796.
coDtribate their fnU profortioii hnraida the ex-
pente of making roadL bridges, tec.
Ur. CooFEH wiahed'lo get a good pric^ for the
land, in order to pay the Public Debt ; Rod, on this
mocount^'he hoped ntS diseouragement would be
thrown m the way of purchasers.
Ur. Qallatin remarked that the member from
N«w Jersey had said, the pteseni ameDdment
would reduce the price of the land. He thought
differently. None would purchase but real set-
tlers. Of course, a less q^uaniicy will be aold in
any one year ; but what is «old will command »
good price. Instead of selling three miUioni of
acres at two dollars the first year, perhaps one
million might be sold at four mlUn. and the K'
iMininp two millions, instead of selling for two,
will bring four dollars, which will he the effectof
driTing uiose purchasers from the market who
meant to purchase on speculation. The quantity
of land to be disposed of, Mr> Q. said, was about
ten millions of acres, which, divided by 4.000,
would make 2,500. But there would be no nope
of getting S,500 families on the lands in one year;
but to seU one million of acres a year, it would be
disposed of in ten years, by which means 1,000 fa-
milies might be accommodated with 1,000 acres
each, and the highest price be got for it that the
land was really worth. With respect to the re-
venue, this plan will give to the Govern meut all the
profits of the speculator. GcTemmant would b^
in effect, its own speculator. If the land, said
he, was tbe property of a private individual, he
would never agree to sell tbe whole in one year,
when he knew that a large number of lamilies
would every year be in want of a portion of this
land. Another objection is, that tail regulation
would amount to a bounty on emigration. An
observation made by gentlemen who opposed the
amendment, struck nim with much force in favor
of it. Bay thay, if yon oblige purchasers to settle
the land within a limited time, they mtty be obliged
to give their land for nothing. He wished that
might take place! If the cause of the happiness
of this country Was examined into, he said it would
be found to arise as muob from the great plentv
w£ land in proportion to the inhabitants, whicn
Ih^r citizens enjoyed, as from the wisdom of their
pcditicai institutions. It is, in ^t, said be, be-
muse the poor man has been able always to attain
his portion of land. And it was perfectly imma-
terial to them whether a man was happy in New
Jerwy orvpon the Western Territory, it was their
duty to do all in their power to promote the g«-
neinl happiness of the whole country.
To resume, said Mr. G., the experience of a
century might be called to prove that the happi-
aen of this country bad bean prnnoted by regnla-
ti<HU similar to Out now under consideration. In
New Bu^and no tract hod ever been granted
without an obligation to setuement He Aoughl
therefore they oiuhi not to part with such a pro-
viaian on mere theory. The consequenoe would
perhaps be, the price of labor would be kept up.
He wished St to be so. It was uot only a sure
mark of prosperitv^ but afibrded comfort to the
poor man ; it wma nil wish to increase, rather than
Mr. N. Smith said the proposed amendment,
his opinion, would have no effect bnt to dimin-
i) the price of the land, and offer a premium to
emigration. The advantage proposed Dy the mea-
sure is to drive alt speculators from the market.
He thought the ar^ment ill founded. He said
this clause would miroduce considerable embai-
into the business, and where there was
anv degreeof embarrassment, the broadn' was tbe
field for speculation. Speculators will still pur-
chase, but at a price that will indemnify them
against any contingency. For, suppose the land
worth four dollars an acre, under these circum-
stances, not more than two or three will be given.
Gentlemen suppose that, if this amendment takes
place, every purchaser will go upon the land. So
such thing will happen ; aservnntortenant woald
answer the purpose. Advert to the bill, said Mr.
S., and it will be seen that tracts are to be sold in
lots of three miles square, by vendue, at the Seat
of Government. The speculator comes forward,
and every man who purchases will bear it in
mind, that settlers must be upon the land in a cer-
tain time. This will not prevent the land from
being sold, but it will diminish the price, and ope-
rate as an encouragement to emigration. He was
surprised to hear that the gentleman who, a few
days ago, had said he did not wish to encourage
emigration, now support a measure which seemed
to have that for its principal object. He would
have men emigrate to what place, and when they
pleased, bat would not offer them a premium for
doing so. '
Mr. NioBOLAB thought the clause proposed
would be extremely discouraging to purchasets.
Tbe uncertainty of procuring settlers will deter
moneyed men from adventuring their property in
this land. He was of opinion it would have a
tendency to put the land into the hands of specu-
lators at a low price. The condition was an un-
reasonable one. Suppose, said he, a loerchant
was told by Government, ;^ou may import as many
SDods 04 you please, but if you have any left at
le end of the year,thcv must be burnt; would he
not think it a tyrannical decree 1 The object, if he
understood it rightly, was to sell the laud to emi-
grants going into that country, at as good a price u
could be got, without throwing any discourage-
ments in the way.
Mr. Havbmb understood the opoatioB of the
bill in this way: Government does not expeot
much above tbe minimum price. He that will
first bid two dollars per acre will get tbe land.
So that, when the land shall be thought to be
worth this price, it will be sold to any person who
bids it He said the effect of a clause of the same
kind with that under coDsideratioo had been tried
in the States of Masuchusatts, New Hampshire,
and Vermont, and was found ineffeetaaL If he
thought it would answer the pnrpoM intended, he
would vote for it; but be believed it would be a
clog upon the sale, without any advantage. He
was 01 opinion, the wtakad-loi effect might be ob-
.dbyGoogle
HISTCHtT OF CONGRESS.
Habcb, 17W.]
NortKmttem Land Cgkxt.
[H.orR.
Mined in a diBbrent waf , ud dierarore this elaose
was unneoeisary.
Hr. H1LLHOD8E thoutfht the gentleman from
Penntylrania was mistaken witli reenwet to what
he lud asserted of the practice of the New Encland
Btatee. He beliered the amendment woald bare
a bad efleet The waj in which the part of the
country which he came from was peopled, was
one part at aaee. If this amendment was adopt-
ed, what wooM be the eonsequenea ? Instead of
Uie people who go upon the land being settled
eiMnpacUT,aDd in the neighborhood of each other,
they will spread themselves over the face of the
whole eountry, without the power of assisting or
defending each other. He did not think this re-
Clation would prevent (he sale of a single acre,
t lower the price, and the forfeiture never had,
and never woald be enforced. Indeed, it might
objection to any elanse which would confiae set-
der* on small tracts to a parlieulai* part of the
Territory.
Mt. FiHDLBT obaerred, there were many differ-
eut opinions m the subject before them. Some
members thought to obtain moaey was the grand
olgect ; others had different riews. He did not
think the raising of money ought* to be the lead-
ing object. He did not wish a single acre to be
soJd mor-e than could be settled. He did not think
the United 9tates could have a greater advantage
than to bave a reserve of good land to offer per-
sons wbo wish to emigrate. Hethoughl theprice
fixed upon the land would be a cheek on the sale,
and diaeourage emigration. Had gentlemen con-
sidered what they were about t Whether they
were merchants, only to get money f Sorely not ;
they bad men, and tke happiness of men in their
view. On the frontier parts of the country, there
it no greater unhsppin^ said he, than that ocea-
lioned by the settling too widely, the settlers can
neither make the necessary improvements, nor
defend themselves; bnt bv settling compactly, the
inhabitants experience all the advantage of soci-
ety, good schools, and everything desirable. He
did not think the present amendment calculated
to lower the price of the land; the price wo nld
advance by degrees. Why sell more lands than
QUI be settled f To have them engrossed 7 This
would bea greai evil, and might have an effect on
the happiness of the country, which could not
be at present foreaeen. The comparison betwixt
'a merchant selling goods, and a Gkivemment sell-
ing lands, would not bold. It is a sort of transac-
tion which should always be kept in the hands of
QovemmeDt, and not in thoae of speculators ; for,
if speculators had the sale of the land, the price
(Iiey WOUI4 fix upon it would drive emtffranls
Opoathe territory of other countries, who hmd out
encouragements to receive them. The prospect
of peace and security will have a coniiderable in-
HueDce on the price of the land ; he himself was
fearful that the Indians would commit depreda-
tions on the frontiers.
He did not think the practice of the Eastern
Stales practieabte in this new coimtry, hot be
would have it approached to. He wished the
land to be settled gredoally, and that an effectual
check might be put on the rage of speculators,
which seemed to nave no boaot^. The most bar-
ren mountains were embraced by them. He
thought it would be prudent 10 adopt the amend-
ment as an experiment which would be perfectly
nfe ; for, if the land was onee engrossed, there
would be no remedy. He said there were facts
and experience in support of the proposition, and
theory only against it He should therefore vote
for it, and trusted other checks woald be provided
before the bill passed into a law.
Mr. RcTHBtiFORD spoke a^in in favor of the
amendment, and of the frontier inhabitants. Ex-
perience, he said, was vastly preferable to a fine-
spun theory. He hoped the mind of every mem-
ter in that House was as pure a* thatof the great
HKLiN, and be paid great attention to their
sentiments, hot experience taught him to differ
from them on the present ques&in. He had
been acquainted with the frontiers, he said, fifty
years, and had seen the county prc^ess from
woods to towns — (he was reminded oy the Chair-
man that there was a specific question before the
Committee.) He wished, he said, to introduce
his experience. He said the country would be
settled, should be settledj and most be settled.
The most untaught Indians were to receive in-
formation; it should be compactly settled by ho-
nest, respectable yeomanry ; but will a men who
has nis land, his orchards, nis gardens, in good or-
der, pack up his all, and go to this new country?
No; but he will send oneortwoofhissons. Qen-
(lemen thought the eountry would not be sold.
There was no doubt of it. Hesaid the people of
this country were doubled since the horrid, de-
testable war with England. The people were
eight millions, at least ; they inereased like a bee-
hive. He was not, he said, for shoRing out
members of Congress from getting lots for their
children, but he wished to disconrage speculaion.
Mr. MADiaon was not surprised to hear difliEr-
ent opinions 00 this question, according as mem-
bers relt from the usages of the Stales to which
they belonged. It was difficult to judge precise-
ly betwixt different opinions, from the bfanks of
Che bill not being filled up. Perhaps a good desl
depended on the qnaotlty of land to be otleKd for
sale. Purchases made, lie said, under a consider-
ation that the land would be speedily settled, would
be made at a higher price, and those made under
an idea of a considerably distant settlement, would
command a price in woportion. The principal
object was to SU the Treasury as soon as possible.
He believed the obliging of purchasers to settle
land within a limited time would be aa obstruc-
tion in the sale ; but there were several consider-
ations which ought to he weighed. If, by iwquir-
iog actual settlen, they should repel a pan of thoae
who did not tolend to settle themselves on the
land, they might not repel others. Persons would
be more Tea(^ to go into a wilderness, if they
were assured of company. The amendment would
have less effect in repelling large purchasers, than
at first imagined. If persons knew when they
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-ofR.]
NoTth»ettem Land Office.
[Mabob, 1796-
purchased that they must provide settlers, they
will see that a great advantage loay arise from
their eaterprise, and will give a greater price.
With reitpect to the policy of incieaeing emigra-
tion there seemed to be a middle course. It would
not be right, he said, to encourage emigrations,
noi to throw obstacles in the way of ibem. He
believed, with the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
that if they were ever so desiroua that einigralioos
should not take place to that country, it would
Dot hinder them. He was oppoaed to a greater
quantity of land being brought to market than
could be settled. The consideration of seiclement,
he said, would be found to operate much less on
the price than was supposed ; he knew not whe-
ther it would increase the jirice. But as the sub-
ject WOH important, and greater Light might be
thrown upon the subject hereafter, he would
wish the forfeiture of the land to be struck out,
Bikd left to be modified by the select committee.
Mr. Harpeb said, when the amendment was
first prt^sed, he thought it a good one ; but, on
more mature consideraiion, he found it would
not only fail in producing the effect intended, but
be pregnant witn evil. The good eflecla propos-
ed by the amendtnent were to restrict the quan-
tity of land sold, and to accommodate that class
of settlers who may be in want of land at a low
gice. The first object was of great importance,
ut does it not ap^ar that, by limiting toe quan-
tity of land sold, it would have an effect to de-
crease the competition? Decreasing the competi-
tion will not decrease the quantity sold, bol the
price; for when the competition is greatest, the
price will be highest. But if you substract a cer-
tain number of purchasers, you leave the market
open to a few bidders, you will gel the land at a
1^ price. The amendment must, therefore, pro-
duce a disadvantageous effect, as the same quan-
tity of land will be sold, and less money produced.
The next beneficial consideration was. to accom-
modate those persons who want lanos, but can-
not afford a high price. A certain proportion of
citizens every year emigrate: some of them will
be able to purchase, others must either obtain land
at a low price oi on long credit. If the sale be
leit unfettered, the competition will be increased
by persons purchasing, who will be willing to ac-
commodate this latter class of persons. As to
that class, who purchase with a view of setlle-
ment, they can accommodate themselves. Per-
sons, be said, who purchase at a high price, with-
out this amendment, will be induced to settle the
land as soon as possible. The amendment will
tend to scatter settlers over the whole country ;
for if purchasers get land in quite opposite parts
of the Territory, they will be obliged to settle it,
whereas a person who might purchase lands at
two dollars an acre in distatit parts of the coun-
try, might not be very desirous of having it im-
mediately settled. He believed these restrictions
had been tried in difierent States, and it was found
impossible to carry them into effect. If this was so,
all the inconveniences of them would be experi-
Miced, and the proposed benefits lost. > But ha.be-
Ueved it was not the object of Goverument to
settle the whole of that country at present, a*
there remains yet much unappropriated lana in
the Atlantic State^ which is m want of tettlera.
He believed when land could be purchased, for
the purpose of actual cultivation, at two dollars
an acre, it was a proof there waa so want of land.
And there was a certain proportion of population,
he said, which was necessary to the happinesa of
society. While lands, therefore, could be pur-
chased at this price in tue neighborhood, he should
be for sending people into the back country.
He was, on these accounts, against the amend-
Mr. KiTTEBi. thought the best price might be
obtained by competition, and that driving out of
tlie market many purchasers, would not increase
the price of the laiid. Gentlemen have said thai
money is not the ol^eci, but settlement. Perhaps
it was not correct to say that universal experience
was in support of the present amendment. WjUi
respect lo the State of Pennsylvania, the proprie-
tors had never fetteredland with conaitionsol this
sort. It was true, they did at one particular time
give improvers a pre-emption right, which was
done lo encourage emigrants from neighboring
States^ but, being found an injurious policy, it
was given up. since the Revolution, there was
only one instance in which restrictions w^ere
made. He saw many evils that would arise frora
persons purchasing lands on the other side of the
Alleghany mountains, as there were many per-
sons at present settled on lands there. This kind
of bounty, to encourage emigration, was not good
policy. He said there were milUons of acres in
this Slate yet to be disposed of He thought it
necessary to mention these facts.
Mr. FiNDLEv went over the history of the set-
tlement of Peonsylvania, in order lo support the
propriety of the proposed amendment, and to
controvert some of the statements of the last
Mr. EiTTEBA said, it was agreed that a provi-
sion should be made that, in case of an Indian
war, land should not be liable to forfeiture for want
oi settlement. This, it might be seen, would be
a motive for purchasers to excite an Indian war.
The motion being put, it was lost, only twenty-
two members appearing in favor of it-
Mr. Nicnoi^B proposed to strike out the fourtb
section, and insert a clause for extending the
time of payment to one quarter ot the amount in
hand, and one quarter each of the three succeed-
ing years; which, after a few observations, was
agreed lo, with the amendment of a blank instead
of the word quarter.
Mr. Habpbr proposed the following resolntion:
" Setolved, That payment shall be received fbi lasda
purchased in puisusnce of this act, tn certificatea of
Bueh puis of the Public Debt *■ beax a preaent inter-
Which, after a numbei of observations from
different members, was n^^tived.
The sixth and seventh sections of the bill, on
motion, were-agreed to be struck out.
Mr. WiLLUMB moved lo strike out the eighth
idbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
1,1796.]
ffcrthvetttm Land Offlea.
[RorR.
section, wlUeb gave sn opportosity to peraoas
boldtoff military mnrants to pay them for oDe-se-
TCDih pari of aay purchase they might make of
these lands, u giving loo great an adTantag^e to
persons holding those nariants. .
Mr. Davton satd, it liad been agreed by a for-
mer Coneress, to set apart oertain lands for satis-
^iof miHtarv claims. Two millions and a half
icresof that land had been taken away from the
Uoitei^ States by the late Indian treaty, so that
there was now an insufficiency la answer the
claims. The committee appointed to bring in
this hill, thought some alientioa due to these
tiaims. His opinion had been asked on the sub-
ject, and lie had given it in favor of the plan pro-
posed ; and as ihere remains now only one mil-
lioo of acres, one half of which is good for little,
10 satisfy the military claims which was not more
than half the neeesnry quantity, if all good, but
being half of it bad, not more than one-Tourth of
what is necessary, he was persimded that the
committee would agree to do the claimants jus-
tice, by giving them a share in the present land.
He owned he waa, in tome degree, mterested in
^is su^eot.
Mr. KiTOHELL spoke in &Tor of retaining this
section.
Mi. WiLLiaHB had no objection to grant the
bounties' meotiwed, but it wasnever intended, he
said, that these warrantii should have the very
best parts of this land. Suppose land sold for se-
ven dollars an acre, (which he believed it would,)
in every 700 acres, 100 would be paid for in war-
rants, which the soldiers had sola for a mere tri-
de. The hononUe cenlleman had said he felt
himself interested. He, also, felt interested, but
he wished to Iwslate for the whole. If there be
not land enougttset out,let more be appropriated;
bat to take oite-«evaitb part of the price of taix land
in wnrnnts, was giving a greater advantage to
holders of warrants than ought to be given. He
wished Oovemmeot to be perfectly faithful, but
he did not wish speculators to have an unreason-
able advantage.
Mr. Daytoh said, the plan proposed by the
gentleman who spoke last would be more expen-
sive than tbat proposed by the present bill, as two
taillions of good land must be set apart for the
parpoae. What does the ailment, of military
warrants covering land worth seven dollars an
acre, amount to? If the purchaser, who had ob-
tained militaiy warrants irom soldiers at a low
price, comes into the market to buy these lands,
will he not ^VB more for them, knowing that his
warrants wUl be taken in part payment, and
thereby increase the price of the laiM 1 The fact
was, he said, that whenever there were any alter-
attoos propoeed, with respect to the late Army,
(bey have always been injured. Ha referred to
several instances as proof of his assertion.
Ur. Hanraa said, that he was in favor of the
section remaining in' the hilt, and upon the same
ground aa the mover allegea for striking it out,
viz: for the advantage of persons holding milita-
ry warrants. He thought the acddiers in the late
Army had reeeiied too little reeonpease, and ha
wts glad when an opportunity presented itself of
doing tb^ro justice : Ti^at these warrants should
be received as part of purchases, would be advan-
tageous to the sale of land, render the warrants
v^aable, and be a small reward for pest services.
Instead of voting fo strike out, he should he for
enlarging (he provision, so as to give the holders,
particularly original holders, the greatest advan-
FiirnLBT said, if he thought it would do
i to soldiers, he should not object to the
clause in the bill, but he did not know a single
'soldier who had one of them. He said there was
already land appropriated for the purpose, and if
— '', he was willing to appropriate more.
the first time, lie said, that they had
heard the claims of soldiery when the money was
intended to go into the pocKets of speculators.
Mr. Dbabbohh said, that these lands were pro-
mised many years ago, and 'if soldiers have sold
their -"war rants, it has been because their patience
has been exhausted in waiting the fulfilment of
the engagements of Government ; but there are
who have not sold their warrants. Yet.
said he, if we go on to put off the saiisfving oi
these claims, it will induce those who still have
million which remains, much time and
expense would be thrown away. It might be
said that his situation should prevent hira saying
much on that question. He thought it neeesnry,
however, to deliver his sentiments on the subject.
Mr. Davtoit said that, as it had been doubted
whether any warrants were now in the hands of
the original holders, he rose to inform the Com-
mittee that he had forty-seven of these warrants
belonging to oncers and soldiers who had earned
them with their blood and wounds. They were
sent to him to have them laid upon the tract of
land ceded to the Indians; bnt,said he. if confined
to the sin^e million of acres now only appropri-
ated, the value of the warrants are goi
the way, exclaimed Mr. D., in whicn gentli
IsthU
nnder cover of preventing the adranta^ of spe-
culators, would reward their brave soldiers ! He
had said he was interested, so he was ; for he
had a warrant in his own name, but not in the
way in which the gentleman from New York was
interested, for he knew not that he had served in
the Army. He shonld speak his mind on the sub-
ject, he said, but would not vote.
Mr. CoopBS spoke in favor of the clause of the
bill.
Mr. FiNDLBV said, no one intended to injure
the Army. It was time enough to complain when
iinury was done. Members could not be suppos-
ed to mjure the Army, because they did not cboote
to enter upon new plans, in their opinions calcu*
lated to favor speculators.
Mr. Williams said, in a debate of this kind,
where all were interested, the less said the better
He should not have risen again, had it not been
doubted whether he had served in the Army. He
would inform the honorable gentleman that he
had 10 served; that, fo( many yean, iriien he lay
;dbvG00gle
HISTOJir OF CONGBESS.
BLotR.]
NmAvmUm Land Ofiea.
[Much, 1706.
down on luB bed, he seamed yet to have anas in
his hands. He said, in Che State of New Yorlc,
Ipariabts were bouglkt foi a mere trifle ; he had
bought some of them. Alt that can be demand-
ed, was a faithl'nl dischaige of the obligBiioa of
OoTenuneot. It had been laid that the admis-
noa of these warrants would increase the price
of the laud, but he did not think so ; it would in-
cieasE the price of the warrants only. If,saidhe,
a disciimioatioD could be made between real hold-
ers and purchasers, he would go any length in sa-
tisfying the claims of the aolmer.
Mi.£iTCHELL spoke ia favor of the clause of
the bill
The Committee now rose, reported progress,
and the House adjouined-
TavaaJUY, Match 4.
It was moved and carried that the unGDiibed
business should be postponed to take up the bill
Srovidiog for a partial appropriation towards the
tilitary EstBhlishmentfor 1796, when the House
resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole,
and reported the bill without ameadment. It af-
terwards went thTongh the Honse, and was of"
dered to be engrossed for a third reading on
Monday.
Mr. LiviNOSTON moved that the unfinished bu-
siness might again give way, to take up the con-
rideratibn of the resolution laid apon the table on
Wednesday, requesting the FH&aiDENT or the
TTnited States to lay before the House certain
documents relative to [be Treaty lately concluded
between thb country and Great Britain ; but, on be-
ing informed by members near him, Ibst the go-
ing through the Land OSce bill would take up
but little lime, he cunsented to withdraw his
NOKTHWESTERN LANS OPPICE8.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole, on the bill for establishing Land
Offices for the sale of the Northwestern Territory,
when the motion for striking out the section al-
lowing mlLtary warrants to be received as one-
seventh part of a purchase, being put, was lost by
a considerable majority.
Mr. Dayton ^the Speaker) wished to introduce
an amendment in the section respecting the al-
lowing of a certain portion of military claims to be
received,viz: to stride out the words 'one-seventh,'
and introduce 'one-sixth.' His reason for making
this amendment was, that he had found, oa in-
quiry, that a great part of the million of acres
mentioned yesterday, as remaining towards satis-
fying military claims, was also ceded.
Mr. Williams said be should oppose that
amendment when the bill came before the Housej
for the present he should waive his objectiona.
Mr. Daytok wished the gentleman, who seem-
ed to be princii^Uy opposed to this clause, would
■tale his objections now, that he might bave an
opportunity of repiyiag lo Uiem, as, when the bill
came before the Home, he should be ia a sitiu-
tioa which would deprive him of the opportimitr
of doing so.
Mr. NicHot.Ae observed that the bill woaU
again come into a Conunitlee of the Whole.
Mr. KiTCUBX,L proposed to amend the motiim
bv striking out the word " seventh" aod leaving it
blank ; which was agreed to.
Mr. Nicfloi.A9 moved a clause to this eSecj, :
" that the Attorney Qeneral shall superintend the
Land Office at the Seat of Oovetament of the
United States, and that the Prbbii«kt be author-
ized, by and with the advice and consent of the
Senate, to appoint an agent for the sale of the
lands in the northwestera Territory ."
Mr. W. Smith wished the motion to be divid-
ed. He had no objection to the latter part of it.
but a very material one to the former. It would
require consideration how far ihev could with
propriety la^ this duty upon tae Attorney
General, as it was not cootempUted in his ap-
pointment. It would also involve .personal cod-
sideraiions as to the fitness of the officer alluded
to for the business. Beaides, he said, it would be
interfering with the duties of die Eiecative to
appoint a superintendent under this bill — a power
which, he conceived, was vested in the Prbbi-
UBHT to nominate and the Senate to appoint. The
Attorney Genera^ he said, had speeial duties to
perforin, and he did not think he would have lei-
sure sumcieot to attend to this subject. 'Besides,
not being sufficiently compensated by the United
Slates, he was obliged to fmlow his own practice,
with which an appointment of this kind would in-
terfere. He thought the business of the Land Of-
fice would require all the attention of a special
agent, and that it would be impossible to be Irane-
acled by nny existing officer. It was true, for the
first year, there might not be much to occupy an
agent, but afterwards the business would be very
coQsideraUe. He moved, therefore, 10 strike out
the first pirt of the proposition.
Mr. NicBOLAB thought the objections urged
against his motion of little weight They wrat
to this, that whenever Government wanted any
new service performed, a new officer was to be
employed, though it were not calculated lo em-
ploy one-tenth part of a person's time. If they
went on multiplying officers, he said, the United
States would scaroely hold them. Congress had
already acted upon a similai' plan lo t^t which
he proposed with respect to the Sinking Fund.
The omce, he said, would be a mere superintend-
ence. But they were told that, though there was
not business at present, there would be saffioient
to employ an agent wholly a year or two hence.
He would say Uiat the t^er he mentioaed was
competent to the duties. It had been said that
he had not sufficient emolument. Suppose, then,
they were to add to it $1,000 or tl,100 for doing
this new business. To this, he said, he would
pledge himself, that he would do the bouness well,
or say be could not do IL
Mr. Vam Allrn observed that it had been said,
that though the busineaii will not at present fully
employ an agent, it will do so hereaher. He
thought it navor would be soffioient to employ a
;dbvG00gle
HISTOHT OF CONGRESS.
BC*ii«H,17^]
NmAvetttn Land Office.
[H.c
opeeiml agent. If tbe present motion did not pre-
vail, (woich he wished mi^hl not) he read one
which he intended to moTe m its place. He wu
of opinion that all mooejr paid for land shootd be
paid into the Treasury of the United States, and
that the Secretary of State, by keepii^ an addi-
tional cierk, might anperintend the bosinesa. He
did not think there was either oocasion for two of-
ficers, or for one; bnt that the business would be
much cheaper aod more r^ntarly transacted ii
the way be proposed.
Mr. Nicholas said hia only view was to pre-
Tent a special officer from being appointed. He
had DO objection to leare the officer a blank, so
that any existing officer mi^ht be employed.
Mr. W. Shitb said his objections were stronger
th&n before to the motion ; for, if any officer wa?
it their business. He would much rather
iCTce to the m-oposition of the gentlentan from
New York. The gentleman from Virginia had
referred to the Commissioners of the Sinking
Fund as a ^T(x>f of the interference of that House
in tlte appointment of officers, l^ere was a ma-
terial difference between the two cases, though he
did not approTe of the practice in that instance.
He understood they were to give a salary, declare
who -should be superintendent, and, bv saving a
few hundred dollars, perhaps hare the business ill
done. If the salary of the Attorney Gkneral was
not sufficient, he would consent to give him more.
But, said he, does not the present proposition lead
to a species of favoritism, of selecting ^rlicular
officers for duties, to increase their salaries 7 He
wished to hare the busiaess done either in the
Demrtment af State, or appoint a special officer
to do it.
Mr. FmoLBT thought the business of the Land
Office ought not to be connected with that of the
Attorney General ; for, said he, it might happen
that the Attorney Generat would be wanted to
prosecute the agent, which, if they were united in
ODb person, it would be seen could not be done. It
would be best, he was of opinion, to lity the duty
on the Treasury or Secretary of State.
Mr. W. Ltman saw nothing inconsistent in
laying the .duty upon some existing officer, as
there could not be sufficient business for a special
agent. He mentioned sereral instances in which
this practice had been followed. Indeed, he said,
it was the first Inne he bad erer heard of the prin-
einle being coBlrorerted. He did not know whe-
ther the bnsiness might be referred to the Com-
missioner of the Revenue, if the Attorney Qene-
rI declined it.
Mr. Oallatin apprehended that the objection
of the gntleman from South Carolina to the mo-
tioQ went more to the manner than the substance.
His ohjeettoD is, that it is an assumption of power
in this House to appoint an officer. No inotioD,
he said, had been made to strike oat the first sec-
lioD of the bill. That section goes to the estab-
lishment of two offices. [The Chairman said that
the first section of the bill had been passed orer
by contoit, bnt he onderatood it was to undergo'
amendment.] Notxrithstanding that, Mr. O. said,
it was at present a pert of the bilL It a^inta
(Acers. He believed that Honse had no right to
create new officers, bnt they mightlay new duties
upon old officers The Prbhideht had not onlr
the power to appoint, but to remove officers ; aoo,
therefore, if he thinks the officer incompetent to
fulfil an office he may remove him. The motion
of the gentleman- from Virginia was net so mueb
to appoint a new officer as to lay new duties upon
some existing officer. He wished an alteratira
to take place in the motion so as to conform to
that idea.
Mr. NicHoijLe acknowledged the instness of the
last member's observations, and said, the first sec-
tion remainini^ in the bill was the cause of his
putting his motion in the form in which he brought
It forward.
The motion for striking out a part of Mr. Nt-
cbolab'b motion was pat and negatived ; and, on
the ori^nal motion oeiM pat, it was lost — there
being for it 35, against it %.
Mr, KiTTEHA moved the following clanse to
the second section : " Provided that the real, and
Dot the magneticalpoiolsshallgOTein the survey."
Mr. Van Allbh thought that this amendment
would make the survey liable to many difficulties.
Mr. KiTTBRA said he was not a practical sur-
veyor. He had however conferred with men very
able to give him information on the subject, a^
was informed that this method of sutveyinE would
be of essential service. The lines run m this way
would be certain and permanent, and as easily
magnetical ones, which were subject )o the
- of particalar compasses^ and that other
which takes ^ace at different times and
in different places, which has not yet been satis-
faeloiily accounted for.
Mr. Gallatin thought there conld be no ob-
jection to the amendmint. He supposed that the
8 urreyor General would hBvehadthispovrer,if it
had not been provided for. He said it was impessi-
Me to anrrey exactly by the ' magnet, as they va-
ried from each other, and from year to year.
Mr. FtiTDLBy hoped no one would be prevented
from voting for this clause from an ides of difficul-
ty. He said the art was so easy as to be taught to
any surveyors of moderate capacity in one even-
ing was adopted, great confusion might be ii
duced into the business. He believed the plan was
perfectly practicable, and would be attended with
the greatest advantage. The motion was carried.
Mr. Vah Allsn proposed a section in place of
the first, which, after some discussion and altera-
tion, finally took the following form :
"Beit enaeUd, J^e^ That a Saivejor Geaersl shall
be appointed, whoM duty it Ahall be to eagtge a suffi-
detit number of skilinl and expert ■arveyars, to su-
able hi^ on OT before the day of to Hscer-
tain the outline of all that part of the land lying North-
west of As river Ohio, in which the title of tl)« Indian
tribes is extinct, and which have not already been dii-
pOMd «f by the DnHed States, and to Uy Ant the same
,db,Googlc
HISTOBT OF CONGKESS.
TVealy ,mth Great Britain.
[Ma]icb,1796.
rose and reported ihe bill with its amendments.
The House then look it uf), and went through the
bill and ameodmeDtf, which were all agreed to,
without debate, except that appointing the method
of KUFveyiog. which met with coosiderable oppo-
•ition, but which w«s SoBlly agreed to.
The bill was then recommitted, aod four mem-
bers added to the select committee to whom it was
leferred.
COMPENSATION TO MEMBERS, ftc
A communication was received from the Se-
;, with a billj which originated there, for the
kin^ out the word nezf, and inserting in its
place in Vie preterU year,
REGULARITY OF MAILS.
Mr. W. Smits said fre<)uent complaints had
been made of the miscarriage of letters to and
fVom the Southern States, and it was of consider^
able consequence that these miscarriages should
be remedied. He believed the Eastern mails were
Tery regular, and it was a desirable thing to have
I he Southern equally so. Iq order to inquire into
these complaints, he nroposed n resolution to the
following effect, which ne wisbed to be-referied
to the proper committee .'
" Setobitd, Th*t ths committee to whom k raferred
iLe bnuDMi reUtiTa to Port OfficM and PoK Rokds be
directed to inatitnte ma inquiry whether tnj, and what,
impedimenli exist in the convejance of the Southern
Mail, and, if any, the oanoe thenoC"
This resolution was agreed to.
THE SON OP LAFATBTTB.
Mr. LiTiNtWTOH laid a resolalion to the follow-
ing effect on the table:
"Saolctd, That a oammitlM be appointed to in-
quire whether the eon of Major General LaALjette be
within the United Slates, and also whether any, and
what, proTiiion may be neceawiy for hi* aupport."
A teaplution was also laid on the table lespeci
ing a tract of land ptuchased by John Clevea
Symmes, in the Noithweatem Territory.
MoHDAV, March 7.
A petition of the proprietors of a glass mom
tory of Boston, praying for a bounty, or such
other assistance as Congiess might please, for the
encouragement of their manufacture, and an ad-
ditional duty on all window glass imported above
a certain size, was read and referred to the Com-
mittee of Manufacturer and Commerce.
A communication fronl the Secretary of the
Treasury, enclosing certain statements, m pursu-
ance of reaoluiioDs of the House, prepared by the
Commissioners of the Revenue, respecting the In-
lernal Rerenuei of the United States, with hii
report eiplaiiatory thereof; was read and ordered
to be printed.
The bill for m^inc a partial appropriaiion for
the Military Establishment of 1796, wks read a
third time and oassed.
The bill for the relief of persons imprisoned for
ibi, was read a second time, and ordered to be
immilted to a Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Tract mpved that several reports of the
Committee of Clatms on the cases of invalids,
^ II be taken up, ia preference to the unfinished
business before the House.
AMEHtCAN SEAMEN.
Mr. Harper thought it necessary to make a
correction of what he had said on the debate re-
specting the subject of American sailors. He had
id that Mr. Cutting had never released one sea-
!ID, whereas he has since found by a report OD
the subject, that he obtained the release of many.
He had also seen a copy of a letter from Major
Pinckney, in which it is Mtd that consideralile
services were done by him to American seamen.
He rfieniioned these circumstances in order to do
away any impre^ions that might have been made
by his aiisertion in the late debate.
THE TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
Mr. LiviNoaroK wisheij, before that business
IS gone into, to take up the consideratioo of the
resolution which he laid upon the table some days
ago respecting the gaining of information front
the PRBSinEirr on the subject of the Treaty ; bul
if the House did not wish immediately to take up
the subject, he hoped he might be permitted to
make an amendmenl to the resolution, which had
prevent any embarrassment in the Executive on
account of any papers which he might not think
proper to give up as relating to some existing ne-
gotiation ; he therefore proposed the following ex-
ception to follow the resolution :
" excepting nich of said papen as any eiiit-
ing n^otiBtlon may reader UDproper to be diarli^nd "
After a few observations from difiexent mem-
bers on the propriety of taking up the considera-
tion of the resolution, it was determined first to
Sinto the business proposed bv Mr. Thacv, and
> amended resolution was laid on the table.
CLAIMS OF INVALIDS.
The House having formed itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole, the report of the ComraiiI«e of
Claims on the cases of invalids, which aUown
them such a proportion of relief as their different
cases atipearei to merit, was read and agreed tou
Mr. Thacv said that the committee b»A allow-
ed a number of claims, though claimants had not
in every instance complied with the necessary re-
Slaiions in every particular, being of opinion that
I failures had not arisen from any inieQtion of
evading the law, but from a want of knowledge.
Considering that the trstimonv which they had
pEOvided must have been attended with much dif-
neulty and some eipenHe,and that as the lawaotm
ceased to exist no further claims could he made,
they thooght it beat to place them OB the lift.
.dbyGoogle
4«5
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
4^6
MiRCH, 1796.]
Trtatt/ vitk Gnat Brilain,
[H.0
There waj, however, one class of claimants which
they conld not place on the list, as the eiainiDiDg
phfsiciaD had omitted to make a return of the ra-
tio of their di^bility. The committee had pro-
Tided a resolution to ^ve them an opportunity of
making good their cUims, and that they may not
snffer by an omission of the physician, they re-
comiDcnd that their allowance should take place
fVom the time they had completed the testimony
on their part.
The House went throDgh the consideration of
the report, which was agreed to, as follows :
Saohed, Th«t the Secretarj of War b« directed to
iriaee on the li«t of invalid p«naioaen ol the United
Btatn, at the •evcual rqtes annexed to their names, re-
niectiiel;, the following peiwiw, td;- [Here follows
And that [he Secretary of War be guided by the
following rules, viz :
A foil peaafon to a commiwloned officsi ahall be con-
ndered toe one-half of hia pav. And the proportions
lealhan a iiill pension are to helheproportianaofhBlf-
P«J-
A full pennon to non-commiaaioned ofGc«n, muai-
riana, and privates, is to be five dtdlan per moath ; and
Ihe proportions leas dun a fbll penson are the nropoi-
lioiu of fire dollars per month. "Hie pennons sball be
paid in the aame manner aa invalid pensioners an paid,
whs have been heratofbra placed on the Uat, and under
inch reatnetiDna and regnl^ions, in tH respocb, aa are
pTwcribad by the kwa of the Unitad'Btatea in aoeh
a. Aenfcad, That ibe BecntaiT af the Dspartmant
of War do akocansB to be pfatoed on flie panakn hat
of the United Sutaa the faBowing penona, at the
rale* anjMi«d to thNi names, n^eotively ; [Hcae ill-
low the nanus.]
And that a liill pension to a .commiasioned officer
ihail be considered the one-half of his w at the time
of being wounded, and the proportiana leaa than a full
pennon are those of such half-p«. And that a full
Bie dollars per month, and the proportions leae than a
hill pension are the proportiana of Ave dollars per
montii. The pennons to be paid in the same manner
as invalid penaioneni are paid, who have heretofore been
jdaced on the Kst, under such rutrictions and legula-
tiona, in all reepecta. as are prescribed b; the laws of
the United States is sndv eases provided.
8. Smahed, hy the Seaalt and Hoot el
taHvavfOie ViSitiStatf»f4m»itaint.^
tembUd, That tlw SscMtarr for die Depaituant of
War ntani to Hw x^tftetint District Judges lbs
of all sMh paapiia t» Iwve bsu tunwnitted i
by the sewnl IHsbiet Jtids^. pmaaant to tte act
fcr the ragvlatloii of claims to invalid pensions^ and in
•hose cases the eiaminii^ physidans have neglected
to wftdff the ntia of disabihty, together with such de-
fective returns of ^yaidans.
And the aaid District Judges, respectivsl;, ahall fbidi-
wilhcaoae tbe BiaminiDg phjiiciana to ipedfythe aev-
aral rales of dtaabiti^ which have been so neglected ;
or, in caae of sickneas, death, or remoTaJ of one or both
■tlch phjtidBns. to make new appointment!, and atxat
the sevsnl rat«* of diaalality to be spedlled, and bj Ihe
suae physicians returned to them as soon at may be ;
of wludi Ih^ shall make return to (he Secretary of
War. who shall, at &e sa^on <rf Coogrss* holden next
4lhCoir.— 15
after, or at the time of such receipt, make return there-
of; with such i^Mervafions as lie may think proper to
sabjoin, that the proper order mi^ be taken thereon by
Congress.
Ordered^ That a bill or hills be brmight in pur-
suant to the first and second rfsolutions, ai.d that
the Committee of Claims do prepare and bring in
the same.
THE THEATY WITH GREAT BRTTAIK.
[The debate on the lobject of the Treaty with
Great Britain, and of the Constitutional ]»wers
of Ihe House with respect to Treaties, having oc-
eupied'the time of the House nearly every day
for a month, (commencins the 7th of March and
ending on the 7th of April,) it is deemed prefera-
ble, and as being more acceptable to the reader, to
present the whole in one body coasecutiTely,
ratherthan to spreadit in detached parts inlcrmized
with other subjects, through the general proceed-
ings of each day. This debate, as here giren, pos-
sesses a cliaractpr for au then licily and correctoess
which does not belong to the Newspaper reports
of tbe day, it having undergone the caref\il revi-
sion of the Speakers themselves. The debate
wbicb look place on making provision for carry-
ing the Treaty into effect, will be found subse-
quently, in 'iie proceedings of each day as the
sabject caitie np before the House.]
On the second of March^ Mr. LiviNoaTOH, af-
ter stating that the late British Treaty must give
riieia theHonse to some very important and Con-
siitutiooal questions, to throw li^t ujmhi which
every information would be requited, laid the fol-
lowing resohiiian upon the taUe.
" Raohtd, That the Prendent of the United States
be requested to lay before thia Houae a copy of tbe ih-
stnietions to the Mnister of the United Stales, who ds-
gotialMl the Trea^ with the King of Oreat Britain,
commnnicatsd hj his Massage of the fint of Mardi. to-
gether with the oorrespondenoe and other ■'"■ffiwfiif
t«lative to the aaid Tteaty."
Mabch 7.— Mr. LiviNOBToN said he wished to
modify the reaolation he had laid on the table, re-
questing the Prbsidbnt to lay before the House
sundry documents respecting the Treaty. It was
calculated to meet ihe su^raestioos of gentlrmen
to whose opinionH he paid the highest respect, and
was foundelin the reflection that tbe negotiations
on the twelf^ artiole were probably unfinished ;
and therefore, he said, a disclosure of papeta rela-
tive to t(uit or any other pending negotiation,
might embatraaa the Kxecutive. He wished, there-
fore, to add, at the end of his former motion, the
following words : "Excepting such of said papers
as any existins negotiation may render improper
to be diacloaed."
The motion of Mf. Livinostor was then taken
np.
Mr. TnaoT requested gentlemen in favor of
the resolution to give their reasons why the appli-
cation for mpers was to be made. The memtwr
from New York, he said, when he laid the reso-
lution on the table, had intimated, that probably
the constitutiooaLty of the Treaty might be que»-
tioned. and predicated his resMutiou upon that
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.opR.]
Tnaiy vUh Greta BriUdn.
[Mil
1,1796.
■appositioa. It wu well uadeistaod, he rem
ed, tliBt ibe Treaty had excited ^eit seiuibUitr ;
thepeople bad formed varioua opinions on tae
subjpci; he coaeeired it^ therefore, a tubjeel of
great delicacy and nia|[iiitude, and was of opiDion,
thai memberx should explain fully their meauiapi
and iateniions with respect to it at an early stage
of the busing to prevent any bitterness frcm
taking place in tbe course of the inrestigation,
u>d to preserve the harmony and dignity of the
House. He asked the motiTea that influenced
the friends of the resolution, because, if the con-
■tiiutionality of the instrument wasto be question-
ed, and the papers were called for on that ground,
he thought It a bad one. This question, he eon-
eeired, should be decided by compariBg the inairu'
ment with the Coostitution, and that a reference
to any dung ebe in deciding the question could
not be proper.
If (he ]Mpers are called for to gronad an im-
peachment against any officer, he wished the in-
tention declared ; he wished to know whether the
negotiator was to be impeached, or the PaEaiDBHT,
who had certainif had a principal asency in the
busineu. He wished to be possessed of the rea-
sons which urged the motion, that he might be
enabled to determine on its propriety. This was
a delicate subject he said : the calling for papers
-Appeared to bear evidence of some retrospective
intention 1 he desired to be apprised what that w«b.
He conceded the right of the House to pass the
resolution, but ihcy could not do it without good
cause. He did not accuse the gentleman who
taade the motion, of making it without good
cause, but was anxious to know what be would do
with them. Was it intended toascertein, he asked,
whether a better Treaty migbt be made 1 Hecon-
. eluded by observing, that the question was of con-
sequence, and by reminding the House, that they
acted for a great people, and for posterity.
Mr. LiviNQBTON said, be had no wish to con-
ceal his intentions. T^ motives that impelled
him to make the motion, were not such as to
make him wish to conceal them, or such as he
ouglit to blush at when discovered. The gentle-
man from Connecticut wished to know whv he
had brought this reaoluiii<n beforethe Housc7 He
did it for the sake of information. That gentle-
man wished to know to what point this ioforma-
tion was to apply 3 Possibly to all the points he
bad enumerated. It was impossible, however^ to
say to whicli or how many of these points with-
out a recurrence to thoae verv papers. He conld
not determine now, he said, tnat an impeachment
would be deemed advisable; yet, when the papers
are obtaiDed, they may make such a step adviaa-
Ue. It was impossible to declare an impeachment
advisable, without haring the necessary lights as
to the conduct ol officers. The House were, on
every occasion, the guardians of their country's
rights. They are. by the Constitution, the accus-
ing organ of the officers employed. The inform-
ation called for they ought (o possess, as it would
tend to elucidate the conduct of the officers. His
principal reason, howevtr, for propoidng the mea-
c ■--- -Q itigt til, Hotise were
vested with a discretionary power of carryiDg the
Treaty into effect, or refusing it their sanction.
To guide them in an enlightened determination
as to that point, the papers are necessarjr ; they
would certainly throw light upon the subject, and
enable the House to determine whether the Trea-
ty was such as that it ought to be carried into ef-
fect. This had been called a delicate question.
He did not view it in that light. The House had
a right to call for the information; if the pREai-
DEHT had any reasons of State that would make
the information improper, he would say so.
Mr. W. Lthah observed, that the mode of ar-
gument adopted by the gentleman of Coonecticut,
be called upon to state bis motives, with the
objections, if he had any, to the resolution. The
gentleman had done neither: he h^d not oBered
even one objection why the resolution ought not
to pass. If no objections could be offered. Mi. L.
said it was conclusive proof in its favor, and that
those were weighty considerations why it should
pass. However, he said, he was very willing to
mention some wnich had occurred to his mind. It
was a matter of great notoriety that the Treaty
referred to in the resolution had excited very
siroDg emotions of sensibility, and that the public
mind had been greatly agitated ; that petitions
had been presented, from all parts of the Union,
praying for the interposition of the House upon
that subject. Perhaps if the information con-
tained in the paper* called for, was made public,
the anxiety which had manifested itself would
be allayed. Fonibly they raivht throw such li^t
as to produce a very greSt oegree of unanimity
relative to that instrument. 8acb circumstances
might possibly be disclosed as to reconcile those
now opposed to it, and who might otherwise re-
main irreconcilable. If the resolution tended only
to this object, it was effecting a valuable purpose;
but there was, he said, another consideration of
vast importance, which was, whether the Treaty
had not encroached upon the Legislaiive powers
of the Constiiulion. As to that point, he would
admit the papers could not be expected to give
much light. But if the House should conceive
their Gonsliiulional power* extended to a coosi-
deration of the subject, undoubtedly thejr ought
to be in possession of the papers in question, and
all the information relative thereto. Unless some
very formidable objections should be brought for-
ward aninst the resdution, which, hitherto, Mr.
L. said, bad not been suggested to him, he should
vote for it, and hoped that the House would be
of the same opinion j for he contemplated that it
would be productive of great utility, and, as yet,
foresaw not the smallest disadvantage that could
in any way accrue.
Mr. QiLEB acknowledged that it was a subject
that had excited much sensibility, and for this
very reason conceived it claimed every licht that
could be thrown upon it. He believed that that
sensibility would be increased if information was
denied, and, pD.isib!y allayed if obtained. If the
resolution 'passed, the ground* of the iwoeeeding
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
430
Trtatf vith Great Britain.
[H-opR.
would then become know o ; and, if ihey were
nich as comported with (he inereaa of the Uaiced
States, the dislike to the Treat* might subside.
On this gronod be should give tne resolution his
vote, unless weighter objections than- those al-
ready addaced could be brought forward. If the
Treat)' is to be judged of by advening to ihe in-
strument alone, there was great caune for dislike.
If it b possible lo throw light oo it, that shall be
its apology, why refuse the inforntatioa 1 He did
not wish to pass judgment on it without knowing
the circurastances under which it was made.
bnpeacUTiieDt had been mentioned ; such an event
was not a necessary consequence of the inquiry,
though a possible one. He did not contem[ilaie
it as the probable issue, but the information might
tend^ perhaps, to reconcile those now averse to
the infeirunieDt. On this ground he hoped geu-
'tlemen would not object to the infonnation being
called for. A mernVr conceived the friends of
the resolution ought to declare what they- intend-
ed to do in the buiiaess. He believed this would
be a candid course of procedure. For his own
[tari. if he was lo make up his judgment defini-
tively upon the face of the instrument alone, he
was prepared to give his opinion ; but he wished
further information, which he hoped would not
be refused by negativing the present resolution.
He observed, that with him information was Ihe
object of the call, and a sense of responsibiliiy the
inducement.
Mr. MuRR.ty said, that h<> v-asR^inst the reso-
lution for two reasons, which theu struck his
vind forcibly ; The fimt was the want o( a de-
clared object within the acknowledged cognizance
of the House; the other was because he Detieved
it was designed as the grouad-woik of a very
dangerous doctrine, that the Hoiue had a right to
adjudge, to adopt, or to reject treaties generally.
Had the frenllcmen stated the objpel lor which
ihey called for Ihe papera to be an impeachment,
or any inquiry into fraud, aa a circumstance at-
tendiag the raakinr of tne Treaty, the subject
"ouldlie presen tea under an aspect vei7 diser-
it from inat which it has assumed. He consi-
has been negotiated and ratified, he I bought,' agree-
ably ID the CoDstiiQtioD. It has been issued, by
the PaEeiDEirr'a proclamation, as an act obliga-
tory Dpon the United Slates. If the Houae mean
to go into the merits of that instrument, end the
iafOTinalion be called for with that view, he
shonld feel himself bound by the Constitution to
five it every opposition. It the PRESiDmr, by
Ike Conslitntion. has the power,' with the consent
of two-thirds of the Senate, to ratify a Treaty,
the House has no right lo investigate the
of the Treatjr, unless they have the right to
tBci it Treaties are the supreme laws of the la
'owers are delegated lo these two branches of
e Ooi
t distinct from those lodged . .
this House. As long as ihey exercise these pow.
*>* agreeably to the Coos titut ion, their acts can.
aot bp controlled by this House ; for it would
asoleeism to say that full powers are given
two braDchesuponagivensulqect,aiut yet a pow-
er is elsewhere lodged to annul the acts wtiicb
proceed from those powers. He considered the
resolution as unconstitutional, as it is predicated
upon the right of this branch to intermeddle with
the proceedings of the other branches on this
point, not alleged to be unconstitutional.
If there is to be investigation on the Treaty,
the inquiry 'must stand upon the allegation that
the Treaty is contrary to the Constitution ; and
then, if that could be proved, it would not be the
law of the land. Or the inexpediency of the re-
solution he was well convinced, as it affected the
secrets which ought to be kept from foreigD
Powers. It might lead to a disclosure, to forei^
nations, through this House, of certain points in
our foreign relations, and in the estimate of our
own domestie interests, that mi^ht -do us mia-
chief. There might be, in negotiations, transac-
tions, which, to expose^ would be a violation of
good faith. He did not imagine that there were
such in the negotiation of this Treaty, but the
rieht is claimed thus over all similar cases.
Mr. M. wis proceeding in some remarks re-
specting the powers of the Senate, when the
BPESKEH interrupted him, and reminded Mr. H.
thai no observntions respecting the irulependent
ri^ts of the Senate could be in order.
Mr. Bock said : I am opposed to the rescJution
now under consideration, not from an apprehen-
sion that the' papers referred lo will not bear the
Eublic scrutiny, or from a belief that there wduld
i the jeesi reluctance on the part of the Eiecti-
live to deliver them on account of any snch ap-
Erehensions of bib ; hot I am opposed to the reao-
ition in point of principle, because I conceive
those papers can be of no um to us, unless to gra-
tify feelings of resentment or a vain curiosity.
As I wotild never sacrifice principle to these mo-
tives, and thereby fix a precedent pernicious in its
consequences, I hope for the indulgence tk the
House while I ofier my sentiments upon the
In order to determine the propriety of the pre-
sent measure, I think it necessarv to take into
view the present existing state of tne Treaty, and
to consider what binding force, if any, it now
has; what benefits can be derived frAm those
papers to efiect an alteration, and what power*
wepossess to call for them.
The Treaty is negotiated, aisented to t>y^ tba
Senate, ratified by the PaeBiDGNT, the ratifica-
tions exchanged. It is now promulgated, com-
municated to us, and the FREsineNT has mada
solemn proclamation, enjoininc it upon all per-
sons bearii>g office, civil or military, within the
United States, and all other citizens or inhabit-
ants thereof, to execute end observe the same.
Was this the proclamation of QEoaae Wabbimo-
TOHj considered as a man, detached from the
powers vested in him by the people, it would ex-
cite ridicule. Was it the proctemalion of a King
or Despot, who arretted lo himself the right of
dictating laws to lAen without their consent, it
would exeite contempt; and if it is in fact the
proclamation of the PHMmmr op thi Uxn-
:zocoy Google
401
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
a.]
Trtats vUh Gnat Britain.
[MARoa, 1796.
■D States, who, imdet color of his (Ace, hat mt'
Bumed powers not lielegated to him, it mtul ejr
cite indigDatiOD. But, if ii be neithrr of these,
but is, indeed, lb« voice of United America,
(ouiiding throogh the Presibekt, as the only oi'
gan of the nation in this particular case, thi
a 'res it a diSerent stamp, ana in this sense, to m
e sound is as heavy as thunder, majestic a
Heaven, and the height of treason to disobey it.
But suffer me to solicit the attention of tbi
House white 1 premise a few things, before 1 iin
mediaielf apply ><>y observations to tb« point ii
question. For what did America contend; for
what did she endure the toils of war, and sacrifice
thousands of her citizens; for what did many
members within these walls endure the same fa-
tigues of war, stem the rage of battle, and shed
their own precious blood 1 I belieTe erery mind
will accord with me when I say, that it was lo
cast off the oppressive power of a nation which,
being detached from tis, usurped and arrogated to
kerself the right of dictating to us laws, contrary
lo our will, white we bad no voice in peasing
those laws tbroughibe mediumof our Represent-
atives; and to gain to ourselves the important
right of self-governnient. Our success was equal
to the magnitude of the object; we jiained the
glorious prize; liberty and peace succeeded war;
tne ferocious and turbulent passions were lulled
to rest; and, in 1787, free and united America,
oodisturbed by factions within, unawed by faet
without, was seen exercising her cool, dispassion-
ate reason, that divine gift of Qod to man, in con-
certing and framing a system to perpetu&te to her-
self and posterity ibe glorious prize she bad won,
the invalnahle blessing of self-KOvemmenl;founded
on the dispassionate will of the great twdy of the
•oveieign people. Three great objects met her
attention [ &tiij rules to check the licentious wick-
edness of individuals, and mark out their separate
rifhls ; second, intermediaie Judges to apply those
rules ; and, thirdly, negotiations, compacts, and
Treaties, with foreign nations. It being impossible
for the great body of the people to collect indi-
vidually lo perform those necessary functions, the^
frame a Constitution in which they express their
will in respect to each ; they constitute the Le-
gislative. Executive, and Judiciary departments;
mark out and assign to each their separate and
distinct powers, and place them as the three great
organs through whicn the future will of the people
is to be known in. respect to those great fiinctions.
The Constitution is then, emphaiicajly, the ex-
preasiou of the will of the great body of the sove-
reign people, and while OoveromeDt moves on
conformably to it, we may with the utmost pro-
priety say, iliat the laws dictated by the will of
the people reign, and not men or kings, and this is
in the strictest sense of the word sel^overnment,
so far as it can apply toa nation; but if we depart
from this basis, then may it be said that men reign,
and not ihe laws ; the will of the people is then
abandoned, and the glorious rights for which we
bave contended, sacrificed and lost. Let us then I
take the Constitution as our only guide, and see
with what authority this Treaty h^ been made.
In the first section of the second article of th« Con-
stitution, it is declared, that the Executive power
shall be vested in a PsBeiosHT op the Uxited
States of America. In another clause of the
same section it is declared, that before be enters
upon the execution of his office be shall take an
oath, that be wilt faithfully execute the office of
Pbesideht of tbe United Stateb, and will, to
the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and de-
fend the Constitution of the United States; and
in Ihe second section of the same article it is de-
clared, that he shall have power, by and with the
advice and consent ol tbe Senate, to make Trea-
ties, provided two-thirds of tbe Senators present
concur, and that he shall nominate, and, oy and
with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall
appoint Ambasudofs, other public Minsters, and
Consuls; and in the sixth article it is declared,
that all Treaties made, oi which shall be made,
under the authority of the United States, shall be
the supreme law of the land. By these passages
I conceive that tbe will of the sovereign people is
clearly expressed ; thai tbe PRESinENT and Sen-
ate should stand as their Representatives, fully
authorized by them to make Treaties, and are
vested with every necessary, requisite power for
thai purpose ; that ther are placed as tbe organ of
the nation, through wuom tbe will of the people
is to be known in relation to all those compacts,
and it is equally clear,tbat if they bave kept within
the bounds prescribed by the Conaiiiution, tbe
Treaty now m question nas become a supreme
law of tbe land,and that agreeably to tbe express
and dispassionate will of 4he great body of the
sovereign people.
I wilLadmit, that if the President has assumed
power? not delegated to him by tbe people in
mabiue and procbiming this Treaty, it is void in
itself; but of what ui>e can those papers be to us
in detertnining that question 7 Are we toezplain
the Treaty by private and confidential papers, «r
by anv thing extraneous to the instrument itself?
IconcludenoL The instrument is then before us;
let us compare it with the Constitution, and see if
there is one article, sentence, word, or syllable in
the T-realy, which clashes with, or is contradictor*
to, the Constitution. This is an inquiry I wilt
pledge myself not to oppose ; but for this, these
ers can be of no use.
Jut if we are to take upon ourselves the right
of judging whether it was eipedieat to n^ake the
Treaty or not; whether it is as good a one as
might have been obtained or not ; and if we are
assume the power of judmng upon ibe merits
_ welt as tbe constitutlonaJity of it, then those
papers may be necessary, and if we possess tbe
power of thus judging, then we equally possess
the right to call Tor ihose papers. But from
whence do we derive this right and powerl Have
the people, when coolly deliberating upon and
forming the Constitution, which is the expression
of their dispassionate will, in that Constituiiou
given us this right? No, not a syllable in. the '
Constitution that even intimates the idea. Do we
possess the right merely because we are the Re-
presentatives of the people? No, that cannot be.
;d by Go Ogle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
4d4
March, 1796.J
Treatp wkk Cheat Britain.
[H.orR.
for we are their RepresentatiTes only for parttco-
lar purposes, and the CoosiiiutioD has prescribed
to us our bouDds, and assigned to \v the limits of
our powers as well as to tfie Brec\itiTe. Are we
to derive this right from popular o^rp^ition to the
Treaty, and from thence say, that n is the will of
(be nation that we shoald exercise this ri^bt of
iaqniry ? Is Iheo popular clamor, which originates
in discontent, is fostered in violence and passion.
and stimulated by the intrigues of interested and
ambitious indiriduaU, to be uken as the dispai
sionaie will of the nation? If so, how are we I
designate and mark oat the unmbers of the dis-
contented t Ace we to learn it from inflamma-
tory newspaper publications, teeming with invec-
liTBs sgainst GoTemment and its measures, and
not carrying even the appearance of reason with
them 1 These can famish no data by which to
determine whether it is one-tenth or even ooe-
thousaadth part of the nation that are dissatisfied.
Are we to learn it from the petitions now before
us? If GO, the petitioners do not constitute one-
ihoasandth part of the nation ; and I presume, as
those petitions have all one stamp, the petitioners
are all in unison of sentiment ; if so, I EaTe a spe-
cimen of their ideas : the resolution of Benning-
ton County Convention, transmitted to me, goes
no farther than to request the Representatives of
that State to ase their best endeavors to bring or
a discussion of the constitutionality of the Treaty
it does not even suggest the idea Chat we have o:
should exercise the power to call for those pajterS^
or judge nnon the expediency or merits ot the
Treaty. Snail we then assume the power, and
people, vested in the Pheoident, as their repre-
sentative in making Treaties, and may rifle the
sacred deposite of tneir confidential cori'espond-
eoce with foreign nations, and judge upon the
merits of a Treaty, then may we reverse the judg'
menlofihe Prbbident and Senate, and annul the
Treaty. Who i^ then, to make the next? Is it
■opposable that the President will again attempt
ii, when the principle is fixed, that he and f he
Senate are not (he ultimate judges of its merits 7
No; to me this is absard. We most, then, take
the whole business to onrselves, and become the
negotiators as well as the ratifiers of a Treatr;
and if we may do this, upon the same principle,
whenever there shall be a popular clamor raised
against the persons appointed to the Judiciary de-
partment, we may interpose, call on the Frebi-
niNT for the reasons of his makine the appdint-
inent, declare it injudicious, withhold approjiria-
tioDs for the salaries, and engross all the Judiciary
powers to ourselves. Upon the same principle
we may ultimately determine upon our own ad-
journments, declare our sittings perpetual, eonsii-
Jate ourselves the judges and executioners of the
law, and become the accusers. jadMs, and ezecu-
(ioners of ovr fellow citizens; This would be
forming an aristocracy with a witness; and where,
toen, would be the boasted rights of America, for
which the fonght and Med ? These are the eon
sequences to which the principle involved in this
resolution would lead.
But sufler me to reverse the tables, and consider
this subject in another point of light. Let us sup-
pose every word in the Conslilution which now
applies to the PaEaiDENT making Treaties applied
to us, and that all the powers which now apply to
us, as a L^islatufe, applied to the Psebideht.
This, 1 think, is a fair way of examining the sub-
ject; for when, in imagination only, we consider
ourselves as clothed with those powers, it cannot
be supposed we shall instantly attach to the idea
those prejudices which, after a long exercise of
those powers, we might possess. Then, consider-
ing ourselves as having those Constitutional pow-
ers, let as s^pose that we had made and ratified
the present Treaty, and made the same Proclama-
tion the President has done, and which had been
signed by the Speaker of this House; and had called
on the President to pass the necessary laws to
fulfil the stipulations, and then suppose he had
done. as we are now about to do — called on us for
the instructions we rare our agent, and the cor-
respondence held while the Treaty was negotiat-
ing. Let every member now present reflect and
determine for himself what our feelings would
then be upon the subject, Would not out keen
sensibility be as much raised as when our virtue
was assailed by the contaminating breath of Ran-
daUl Should not we consider it as an insult to
the majesty of the people, which so conspicnou^y
shone through usas Lheic Representatives? Should
not we then say he was assuming powers not dele-
cted to him ; that he was invading the prerc«&-
tives of the people vested in us, and rifling the 3e-
posicesof their national correspondences? Should
not notwe embrace every idea which I have sug-
gestcd upon tbi^ subject an now applying to the
PREsmasT? Would it notbesaidjhe was aiming
to engross all the powers of Qovernment, and to
set himself up as a despot? Would not his inso-
lence, resound from every side (rf these walla, be
bandied about from one end of the Continent to
the other, and wailed even into distant climes?
Nay, should we not go further, and say, that as
the Consiitnlion had vested in us the power to
make Treaties, it had also necessarily given us the
sole r^bt of judging, not only of the merits, but
oftbe constitutionality of them? Should we
say, the people, by giving us the power, had
.. . eby decided the point, and determined us as
being the best and ultimate judges ; and that it was
not lor the Prebideiiit to impeach our judgment,
not implicate us as having violated the oath we
had taken? By what rule of reason do we now
calculate, then, to suppose the PaEstDEitT does not
possess the same feelmgs, and embrace the same
ideas, as now apply to nim, standing as the repre-
sentative of the people in making Treaties ? And
how can we suppose it would not be a violation of
the Conslilution, and an assumption of power in
us, to adopt this measure 1 Is it poI clear, that if
the will of the people is not expressed in the Con-
stitution, nor ibe will of the nation in the opposi-
tion to the Treaty, that we should exercise this
power ; that out exerclsiag it would be a depart-
ed by GoOglc .
495
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OFR.]
T/vaiy with Qreat Britain.
ore from the will of the Deople, and that our Oo-
Terniiiuniwt>uld iheD noloDger rest on thatbaaisi
Aiiil would it not (hen be equally clear, that we
had abaqdoned (he inesiimHble rjgbts foi which
we had contended 1 This would lie to overturn
oar ConstilutioD, aod detnoDsttRle to the world
that a free people were not capable of self-govem-
menl,aad hold out but poor encouragement colbose
Dations now struggling for freedom. In this point
of view, I consider (he question all-important ;'on
this step, and the present crisis, depend (he great
and important question whether we are to eojov
the reign of laws dictated by the dispassionate will
of the people, or whether men must content Ihem-
selres to be subject to the reign of popular frenzj',
ADSrcbf, and confusionj on the one liand, or the
insolent reign of despotism on the other.
Asl consider the passing of this resolutions direct
step towards the aDoliiion of (hose sacred rights
for which we hare fought and bled, should I ^ivc
my consent (o it, the blood which 1 navo shed, and
my own mutilated frame, would reproach me.
Mr. Baldwin thought (he resolution so unex-
ceptionable that be had expected it would have
been agreed to without debate. The PRESinEHT
has sent the House the Treaty j petitions hare
come forward on the subject ; the House must act
in the business. It is yet unaccompanied with
any documents to throwlight upon it. No person
concerned in the negotiation has a seat on the floor
of the House ; so that no oral informatLon cau be
expected. Implicit faith was not to be reposed,
he imagined, in public officers. It would be unfair
to take up the subject naked and unexplained.
He believed the resolution far from looking like
hostility towards the Executive — was a measure
which the Executive must wish for, as it affords
him an oj^rtunity of submitting to the House
his grounds of proceeding in the ousinesa, which
he could not do without it, except by rendering
himself liable to the charge of omciousQexs. As
to the objec(ion that these papers were secrets of
the Executive Department, ae thought ii more
plausible than solid. The Executive might com-
municate them confidentially to the House, as was
often done, or might beep back such as there was
any temporary impropriety in communicating, on
account of other transactions now depending. He
thought the importance of having many Govern-
mental secrets was diminishing. The doctrine of
publicity, he said, had been daily gaining ground
in public transactions in general, and he confessed
his opinions had every day more and mote a greater
tendency that way. The passion for mystery was
exploded, and what experience he had had in pub-
lic matters confirmed him in the opinion that the
rsofthe^o't
the arguments for and against measures to be
known to the people: this would reconcile them
to these founded on sound reason and policy. This
he had ever found the case in the part of tne coun-
tif he represented. Whenever he had had an
opportunity of stating the reasons diat had influ-
He aeain dwelt on the importance of accompa-
□ ying the law with the motives of it. Upon tms
--" "iple the House publish their Journals, and he
'alid objections to it than those hitherto brought
forward against it could be adduced.
Mr. Oallatin said, no member had a higher
finion than himself of the talents and patriotism
(he member from Vermont, but he could not
help expressing htsaslonisbnient at what had drop-
ped from that gentleman. From what he had said,
no one could liave imagined that the motion be-
fore the Hbuse was merely a call for paper)', but
would have supposed that itwasinconiemptation
to disorganize iqr Qbvernment, and to erect the
House into a. National Convention. It was too
much to be feared that on a discussion of the
Treaty the alarm would be sounded. We are
:elyoD the threshold, and ihecry of confusion
inarchy is already raised. He little expected
to hear this in a debate on the present motion,
which did not necessarily involve a Constitutiooal
que:<tion. If he thoughl it did, he would have ad-
vised the mover to withdraw it. as he wished every
Conitiiutional question to be discussed in a direct
of the Union for some purpose. What shape the
discussion may take in that Committee cannot
now be decided; but whether, when we take up
the question of the Treaty, it be agreed that we
have an agencv and a discretiao in carrying it into
effect, or whether it be intended only to expreu
our opinion, by means of a declaratory resolution.
of that instrument, the information called for will
be useful, by showing the reasons which induced
the adoption of, (he Treaty. It had been allowed
that the Treaiv had excited much discontEDt, bat
it was supposed that the President and the Senate
were the oest judges, because they possessed the
best information : to render this in formation public,
must then answer a valuable purpose. The ex-
ception annexed to the resolution rendered it, in
hii mind, totally unexceptionable. The motion
does not lay claim to the secrets of the Executive,
but only asks. If the Pbebidbht thinks proper
not to give the information, he will tetl the House
so; then a question may arise whether they shall
get at those secrets whether he will or no; but
that is not the q^uestion now.
In another view information would he of use :
it would enable the House to form a just opinion
of the meauingof any doabtfulartide of the Treaty.
Amemberhadeipressedtheopinion that the House
had no discretionary power relative (o the Treaty.
This was taking for granted what remained to be
proved ; this wonid he a point to be discussed.
Mr. Mdbbat explained, that what he asserted
wis, that if the Treaty was the n][ffeme law of
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
MtHcw, 1796.]
Tnaty with Gnat Britain.
[H.ofR.
Ihe land, Ihen Chere was no discretiooary power
in the House, except on the question of its consli-
tulionaliiy.
Mr. Gallatik said, he should not now enter
into the merits of the question, but merely slate
that certain powers are delegated by the Coosti-
inlion to Congress. They possess the authority
of regulating trade. The Trealv-making power
deleMted to the Execulire may be considered as
clashing with that. The question may arise, whe-
ther a Treaty made by the PrebideiIt and Senate,
containing regulations touching objects delegated
to Congress, can be considered binding, without
Congress passing laws to carry it into effect. A
difference of opinion may esist as to the proper
construction of the several articles of the Consti-
tution, so as to reconcile those apparently contra-
dictory provisions. But all those questions would
occur infuture discussions. Whatts nowwanied
is information on the subject, to elucidate the dif-
ferent Tiews which may be taken of the Treaty.
It must do good to obtam it, aod could do no harm
to ask for it. If it would be improper to commu-
nicate any part of the information on the subject,
the President will say so. He had hoped, he
laid, that the resolution would have passed with-
out objeclion. He concluded by observing, that
the House were the grand inquest of the nation,
and that they had 'the right to call for papers on
which to ground an impeachment ; but he be-
lieved, that if this was intended, it would be proper
that the resolution should be predicated upon a
declaration of that intention. At present, he did
not contemplate the exercise of that right.
Mr. QiuBBnT was opposed to the resolution.
He bad heard no satisfactory reason giren why
the information should be asked for. He consid-
ered it as an attempt to encroach on the powers
of the Eiectltive Department. He insisted on
the necessity of secrecy as long as there are des-
potic Governments to be negotiated with. If the
Pbesidekt was lo refuse the information, in
which he conceived he would be justified, it
might create discontents and heart-burnings. He
was against the resolution as unconstitutional,
unprecedented, inexpedient, improper, and dan-
gerous to the peace and prosperity of tne Glovern-
ment.
Mr. Madison admitted that every proposition,
however distantly related to a question on the
Treaty drew from the importance of that subject
considerable importance to itself. In a discussion
of this subject, he felt strongly the obligation of
proceeding with the utmost respect to the deco-
rum and dignity of the House, with a proper
dehcacy to the other departments of Govem-
meat, anj^ at the same time, with fidelity and
rttpansibiLly, for our constituents. The propo-
sition now before the House, he conceived, mi^ht
be considered as closely connected with this im-
portant question. It was to be decided whether
the general power of making Treaties supersedes
the powers of the House of Representatives, pac-
ticuUrly specified in the Constitution, so as to take
to the BxecatiTeall deliberative will, and leave
the House only bo executive and ministerial in-
strumental a^ncy? He was not satisfied whether
it was expedient at this lime lo go into a consider-
ation of this very important question. If gentle-
men were not disposed lo press it, he would at-
tempt to [brow the resolution into such form as
not lo bear even Ihe appearance of encroaching
on the Constitutional rights of the Executive.
The resolution, in the form in whichit was first
presented, was liable lo objection ; the mover had
removed that objection in great measure, by add-
ing an exccNlion to the papers requested. He
wished to submit, whether the resolution would
not be further improved by introducing Ihe fol-
lowing words in lieu of the amendment proposed
by the member from New York: "Except so
States, at this lime, lo disclose." He moved
these words as an amendment, after striking out
those brought forward by the gentleniaa from
New York.
Mr. Cbabb, though against the measure, ex-
pressed his intention of ameliorating the resolu-
tion as much as possible: he should therefore
vote for ibe amendment.
Mr. Sedowick conceived the business assumed
a new aspeci. The subject was important; he
wished to deliberate on it attentively, and hoped
time would be given him to make up his mmd.
He moved to adiourn, and Ihe House aid adjourn.
March 6. — The House look up Mr. Livinq-
bton'h resolution; the amendment proposed yes-
terday by Mr. Madison being immediately be-
fore the Committee.
A question was immediately taken upon that
amendment, and lost — 37 lo 47.
The original resolution then came into consid-
eration.
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) said, that he
had listened attentively to the reasons advanced
favor of this resolution, and that he had heard
President and Senate have, by 11
the power of making Treaties, and the House
have no agency m them, except to make lawa
neci^ssary to carry them mto operation; he con-
sidered the House as bound, in common with
their fellow-citizens, to do everything in their
power to carry them into full eieculion. He re-
cognised but one exception to this rule, and that
was, when the iustrumenl was clearly uneonsli-
lutional In this case, he remarked, it bad not
been said that the Treaty was unconstitutional.
When the re'<oluiion was first brought forward,
it had indeed been observed^ that the discussion
might involve certain Constitutional points, and
therefore, the papers called for by the resolution
were necessary: out it was obvious, the question
of constitutionality should be determined from the
face of the instrument, and that a knowledge of
the preparatory steps which led to its adoption,
coulo throw DO light upon it; that ground was
therefore abandoned even by the frieods of the
resolution, and others were resorted to.
A member from New York had said, the in-
formation called for was wanted, as it might ap-
.d by Go Ogle -
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
RopR.]
Treaty leitk Great Britain.
[Mabcu, 1796.
ply to all ihe possible views of the Treaty ques-
tion; that 'he could not declare the particular
poiat now, but that when ihe papers were before
the House, they would then be enabled to judge.
He differed in opinion from that member; whea
the House were about to call for papers, he con-
ceived they should stale for what purpose they
wanted ihemi whether they wished to examine
the question of constitutionality, or whether they
intended an impeachment. In the latter case, a
member from FeoDsylTania, in favor of the lesu-
lulion, had conceded, that the resolution should
be expressly predicated on a declaration of the
intention. All the gentlemen who had expressed
their seDtimeots on the subject bad renounced
the ground of impeachment; the question of con-
stitutionality was renounced, and the papers are
finally to be called for in order to gire general
information. The member from New York
wished for information as to the whole transac-
tion to be before the House, that they mi^ht be
enabled to judge of the propriety of carrymg the
Treaty into enect. This ground, be conceived
not tenable under the Constitution; the House
were bound to carry it into effect, unless uncon-
stitutional. They have no right to investigate
the merits of the Treaty ; it is the law of the land,
and they are bound to carry it into effect, unless
they intended to resist the constituted authorities.
A member from Massachusetts had. yesterday,
intimated that it was possible a knowledge of
these papers might allay the sensibility which
had been evinced on the subject of the Treaty.
For bis own part, he would not pretend to say
what effect it might produce; but this argument
was a severe reflection on the proceedings of the
Tar ious associations, who had given their opinions
of the Treaty, without thinking a sight of these
Cpers necessary : it was also a censure on those
^gislative bodies who had formed their opinions
of it, without this necessaty li^ht. They thought
themselves able to form an opinion of the in&tru-
ment without the aid of these papers, [f the pub-
lic meetings which denounced the Treaty had
thought them necessary to formitig their opinion,
they would have suspended it tin these papers
came to light. The gentleman from Massachu-
sells, had also said, that the papers might devel-
ope circumstances which would show the impro-
vriely of carrying the instrument into effecL He
for his part, knew of no such circumstances; if
there were any, they must go lo the characters
of the persons concerned io the transaction ; and
if the gentleman knew of any such, it was his
duty to state them as a ergund of impeachment ;
but from all quarters the intention of impeach-
ment was disBTowedi If the gentleman meant
merely to allude to the circumstances which had
been necessarily incidental lo the negotiation,
they were not, in bis opinion, the proper subjects
for the consideration of the House. With as
much propriety - might the PKuaiDENT, when
about to execute a law, wish to ejtaminc the
Journals of the House, the Instructions to eom-
mittew, to determine whether it was improper or
not. The President, in executing a taw, exam-
ined its constitutionality on the face of it only.
If the PsESiDENT and Senate have alone the
Legislative power with respect to a Treaty, the
House bad no rieht to inquire into the subject of
negotiation that &d to it. The House are surely
not to enter into the merits of the proceeding, and
determine whether the instrument should be ne-
gotiated over again- This was not a right given
Ey the Constitutioa, and if attempted to be exer-
cised, it could be done only by arresting it. By
the Constilulion the powers of Goveinment ate
distributed ; to Congress the Legislative power Is
SVen, the Executive to the Peesidekt, and under
e head of the Executive, the power of making
treaties is comprised ; but they must be,far ereater
security, approved by two-thirds of the Senate.
AU Treaties are the supreme law of the land, and
the House cannot meddle with the Treaty-making
power, without beins gtiilty of usurpation.
A member from Virginia had said, that the in-
formation called for by the resolution might allay
the ferment in the public mind, that it might
form an apology for the Treaty. If the Pbesi-
DENT, he repliea, had thought so, he would have
been glad to have *laid it before the House; but
be believed, he thought it did not need an apolo-
fy, and that when tested with proper information
y due consideration, that it required none.
When compared with the Constitution, and
with other instruments of the same nature ; when
recourse was had to the books calculated to throw
light uj)on itj it would be found that it required
no justification from the correspondence and in-
structions.
He was surprised chat|rentlemen who displayed
such zeal for the Oonsiiiution should support a
[iroposition, the tendency of which went inoirect-
y to break down the Constitutional limits be-
tween the Executive and Legislative Depart-
ments. The Constitution baa assigned lo the
Executive the business of negotiation with for-
eign Powers; this House can claim no right by
the Constitution to interfere in such negotiations ;
every movement of the kind must be considered
as an attempt to usurp powers not delegated, and
will be resisted by the Executive ; for a conees-
sion would be asurrender of the powers specially
delegated to him, and a violation of his trust.
The proposition calls upon the PREHinBMT to lay
before the House the instructions given to Mr.
Jay, and the correspondence between him and
Lord Grenvilte ; and for what purpose? Is this
House to negotiate the Trean' over again? Has
the Constitution made this Hoose a diplomatic
body, invested with the powers of negotiation?
Is not this House excluded? for, if the maxim
that " the expression of one is the exclusion of
another," applies to this case, the assignment of
the Treaty-making power to the PrebidehT and
Senate, is a manifest exclusion of this House.
This call then on the Pbbsident is an attempt to
obtain indirectly what the Constitution has ex-
pressly assigned to others. Are these papers ne-
cessary to enable us to judge whether the Treaty
is Constitutional or not? If the Treaty be uncon-
stitutional, it must sufficiently appear so on the
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Mahcb,17».]
Treaty wUh Great Britain.
[H.orR.
lace of it; if the articles of tbe
CoDitilutioaal, eaa tbe preparatory steps makt
ihem not so 1 Gentlemen complain of waat of
inform at ion. Admittiog their complaint to be
well founded, let ihem resort to the pioper noun
of infcrmBtJon. What aie those sources? If
formation be waoied lo enable them to jud^e of
the consiiluiionahty of the instrumeot. let them
take the Constitution in one band and the Treaty
in the other, compare them, and then decide ; if
from sucb com^wiisoD, they find no grounds for
declaring the Treaty unconstitutional, their deci-
sion must be in fiivor of its constitutionality. Mr.
S. referred to tbe proceedings of the Supreme
Court in the ease lately argued of the carriage
tax and ju^t decided ; bow did tbe Conit pro-
ceed? Did they call for the Journals of tbe two
Houses, or the report of tbe Committee of Ways
and Means, in which the law originated, or tbe
debates of the Honse on passing tbe lawl What
impresaion would such call have made ''
public mindl Would it have enhanced
public opinion either the dignity or wisdom of
that trihuDal? They took tlie Constitution in
their band, and tested tbe act bj that standard,
and by that alone has their decision been gov-
erned.
b the object in calling for this information to
discoret wnethec the negotiator has conformed
10 his iosttuctionsl If so Mr.' S. wea at a loss
to discern bow that would affect the question.
Such a circumstance might be important as it re-
lated to the pRES[DEHT,and might prercnt his lay-
ing a Treaty, not conformable to his instructions,
before the Senate ; but, being ratified by the Phe-
BiDENT and Senate, all was done which tbe Con-
stitution required. The Conatitution doesnot re-
quire the interrention of a negotiator; it only re-
quires the adfiee and consent of two-thirds of tbe
Senate, and the sanction of the pHEBioEirr; the
Prebidemt is not bound to etnploy an agent, he
may in person conclude the Treaty with the fo-
reign Minister or be may employ the Secretary
ofSiate; the instructions are private directions
from him to his agent ; and wbetber those in-
structions be pursned, or departed from, is a qnes-
lion only between the pREsiDBitT and bis agent.
By adopting tbe Treaty, he sanctions the condact
of his agent ; by laving it before the Senate, he
manifests his approbation of a departure from his
iostruclioDa, if any such there were; which, how-
iTer, in the present case, is not admitted. To re-
turn lo the ease already referred to, of the car-
riage tax; would it be a material ingredient in tbe
inquiry respecting tbe cons lit ul ion all 1 7 of that tax,
wbetber or not, the Committee of Ways and
Means had conformed to the instructions of the
Home, in recommending soch a tax? Ondoubt-
edly not ; the ultimate act, as passed by the difTer-
eoi branches, would alone be looked into.
Mr. S. next adrerted to the consequences of
til countries of a secret nature ; in the progress of
negotiation, many ihin^ are necessarily suggest-
ed, the publication of miicb may involre serious
inconTenieace BUd disadvantage to the parties ne-
gotiating. Our Constitution has, therefore, wisely
assignea Ibis duty to the Executive. The pre-
cedent attempted to he established is, then, a aan-
gerons one ; for it not only tends to alter the na-
ture of the Government, nut to endanger the in-
terests of tbe country. This is the first instance
□f ibe kind since the establishment of the Consti-
tution. The Executive has, indeed, of his own
accord, communicated to us such papers relative
to negotiations, as appeared to bim proper to lay
before us, and as might show the public he was
pursuing tbe requisite steps for obtaining redress.
But there is not one solitary instance on the Jour-
nals, of a movement on our side, to obtain such
papers, where he has not deemed it proper, on bis
part, to transmit them. In this case, the Presi-
nENT has communicated the Treaty, without any
papers accompanying it. This is an evidence of
his sentiments. Han be thought it his duty to
have communicated- tbe instructions and corre-
spondence, he would nnqneslionably have done it.
It has been said that he would refuse a compli-
ance with such call, if be thought it improper ;
but this was no reason for making a wanton call ;
bis having withheld these papers is an evidence
that he thought it it improper to send them ; if,
af^er this, they are requested, and he sends them,
it will be an avowal, on his pari, that he commit-
ted an error in not sending them at first, or that
they have been extorted from him. This call is
then calculated to place him in a painful dilcm-
ma ; he must either resist the application of this
House, or surrender essential Executive rights.
Is it expedient, is it generous or candid, to place
him in this situation, without a more urgent ne-
cessity than has been stated? Mr. S. deprecated
that clashing of aathorilies, which he was con-
vinced this call would produce. This House, said
be, is tbe representative of tbe people, for Legisla-
tive purposes ; bnt the PRBalDENT is likewise their
representative, for Executive purposes. It was
not necessary, on this occasion, to pre-judge the
extent of the right of interference, in a case of
impeachment of the PREBinBtrt by the Honse;
because that case is, at this time, avowed lo be
oat of the question. On any other ground, this
House, in its Legislative capacity, ought to be ex-
tremely cautious of encroaching on tbe rights
which the PREBtnEHT has derived from the peo-
ple, as their representative, and which he exer-
cises for their benefit. In the bnsinessof Treaties,
the Constitution has provided no other check than
the requisite concurrence of the Senate, and the
right of impeachment by this House ; unless,
therefore, this call is predicated on an intention to
impeach, and so stated and understood^ it is an
encroachment on the Executive, and will be at-
tended with serious consequences.
A gentleman from Virginia had said that, when
the papers are laid before the House, ihey wonld
see upon what principle the Treaty had beep
made. He answered, that the Presidbnt and
Senate had a right to make Treaties; that they
were the law of the land j that, in the present
case, tbe British Treaty had been proclaimed as
such. If it was not the kw of the land, an im-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
444
Trtatg viUh Grtat Briiiun.
[M"
1,1798-
?<achmeDt should be brought forward against the
RESEDEHT fur declaring it so. But thcr^ wbs no
motion for impeachment. If it is the law of the
landj what could the House do to prevent its be-
ing m force ? why call for papers tu see whether
it was properly raade^ Can the House set it
aside 1 They inay resist it, and so may individu-
aU resist the law. at the risk of coose<}UeaceB. The'
House have taken an oath to maintain the Consti-
tution, and carrv the lawh into efffci. It was a
doctrine he had heard before now, on the floor of
the House, and a sound one. that a law must be
repealed or oheyed : if it is not repealed, it must
be obeyed, or the Government dissolved. Can
the House repeal the Treaty? No; theo they
must obey it.
The gentleman from Qeoreia bad reprobated
aH secrets in Republican Governments, though he
admitted there ruight evils arise by divuigioe pa-
pers wbiUt a negotiation was yet pending. WllIi
respect to secrets, Mr. S. thought them unavoid-
able in all Governments ; it was a standing rule
in that House, when confidential communications
were made frouj the Prebident, to clear the gal-
leries, and even to exclude some of the officers of
the House. He referred to the practice of the
Old Congress on the subject of secrecy ; and al-
luded to the case of a member who had been cen-
lated for divulging secret correspondence. It had
been said by the member from Oeorgia, also, that
the Treaty carried do explanation with it, and if
the House acted upon it, they munt take it up un-
explained. He thought nothing more was neces-
■ary than to see that it was a law. What ex-
pUoaiioD did that gentleman want 1 What neces-
aity for iaformatioo with respect to the negotia-
tion 1 It was a matter with which they had no
concern. It belonged to another authority. That
SDtleman had also said, that he did not suppose
! request would be painful to the PREsmEitT,
but that ir would give him pleasure. Was not
the President himself the best judge of this?
He had not given the papers to the House, and
on former occasions, when, he wished papers to be
made known, he had done so.
A member from Pennsylvania had said, why
refer the Treaty to a Committee of the Whole, if
they did not mean to do something with it? It
was sent there, Mr. S. observed, in order to make
the proper appropriations for carrying it into ef'
fecL Now, this reference was made the ground
of calling for the papers ; and when the papers
are produced; he supposed they would say, why
have these papers, except we go into an eiamina-
tioa of the merits of the Treaty 7 It was also
said by the same gentleman, that these papers
would enable them to understand the articles of
the Treaty. He believed they were to under-
stand the t'reaiy from the face of it, as judges ex-
pound the taw, by examining the law itseli; That
gentleman further observedj that, as the Treaty
contained commercial regulations, the information
asked for, would enable them to decide with re-
r:t to legislating on the subject; but, said Mr.
, the CoDstitatioD will decide that better than
inatructions or carreapondeDce.
Mr. S, xaid, he believed Jie had examined all the
reasons assigned for calling for this information-
He thoup.ht, before the House made buch calls, it
should have good grounds for them, especially,
when the Prbbident had shown his opinion by
not sending (he papers with the Treaty. Mr. S.
took a briel review of his argumentf, paid a com-
phment to (he member from Vermont, on account
of his speech of yesterday, and concluded by say-
ing, that that House had no more right to send to
the Prebjuent for the papers in question, than
the printer of a newspaper had ; he might com-
municate them to either voluntarily, but neither
had a right to demand (hem. He apologized for
having trespassed so long on the lime' of the
House, and expressed his hope that the resolution
frould not pass.
After Mr. 8. had sat down, it was moved by
Mr. QiLEB to take the resolution up in Commit-
tee o(- the Whole for the purpose of more ample
discussion.
This motion was agreed to ; sixty-one membus
rising in the affirmative.
The House immediately resolved itself into a
Committee of the Whole, on the resolution.
Mr. NI0B0I.A3 remarked, that the member from
Connecticut, first up, when inquiring for the rea-
son of a call for papers, had suggested two. The
one, relating to tne merits of the instrument ; the
other, an inquiry iato the conduct of officers con-
cerned. On the latter ground, gentlemeu conceded
that the Hoase bad a right to require the papers,
and yet seemed willing to adhere to that, on which
they conceive a call could not be, with propriety,
grounded, as the one that influenced the conduct
of the friends to the resolution. All gentlemen ,
admitted, that the House had the superintendence
over the officers of Government, as theeraod in-
q^uest of the nation ; but persisted that the resolu-
tion calling for papers, if intended for the pur-
pose of exercising that authority, must be predi-
cated on an expression of the intention. How, he
asked, could this intention be properly made up,
without a previous sieht of inose very papers;
would the House risk their own credit in the onsi-
ness, without seeing clearly the ground they went
upon, by having before them the information now
called fori The right, he c(H)tended, of superin-
tendence over the officers of Government, gave a
right to demand a sight of those papers, that should
throw light upon their conduct.
He took a view of the prominent features of the
arguments of the members up before him. It had
been said thai, if the power of the Prebiuent and
Senate, as to Treaties, was complete, then the
House nad no right to claim a participation ; this
cguld not be denied ; but the question was^ whe-
ther the Elxecutive had that right, unqualifiedly,
in all cases. In the present case, he contended,
the House had a voice. To elucidate : Suppose
that, in the Constitution of the United States,
which has been so guarded about the expenditure
of money, a clause had been inserted, positively
declaring that the House have a control over the
money matters stipulated in a Treaty ; would not
■ki. . — ^:._.- . qualification of the powers of the
.d by G cog It;
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
UAUaa, 1706.]
Trtabf mtk Great Britavt.
\n. OP R.
Pbesidbmt aod Senate with reipect to Treaties 1
The Coostitutian, on this head, he contended,
though less explicit than bis supposed case would
make it, was noi the less positive, if tested by all
the Tair rules of coosiructioa ; and if compared
with the practice of the Ooverameal, from which
we had borrowed, with many other mailers, this
part of our CoDstitutioa. In Eufflaad, the coQti-
trr alluded to, their House of FBrliament had ex~
ercised a control over the moaeyed articles of
Treaties; aud he contended, the House of Repre-
Katalires had an equal authority here, as rhief
guardians of the purse^trings. It was unaecessa-
tj, at this time, ne said, to touch on the other
fnris of the Treaty which clashed with the Con-
siitutional powers of the House.
The member had said that the Treaty being
coQcluded, and beinj; b lew, the House were, as
Hbject to the law, obliged (o pass the necessary
provisions to carry it into effect. He did not sup-
pose for his own part, he said, that he was sent
here lo pay implicit obedience to any department
of Govemtnent, and receive a decision on what
was to come before the House at their hands;
but to use his discretion to the best of bis know-
led^ and abilities.
He a^in adverted to the power of control that
the House of Commons have over Treatieii ; and
cuutended, that that provision of t!ie British Con-
stitution had been accurately copied in our own
with this deviation only, that the Senate have the
could show from the best au^orily, the acbnow-
Itdgmeat of the British Crown officers themselves,
that the Parliament has a tight to discuss and de-
The same power, he argued, resided in the
House here ; for shall it be said, that we have bor-
rowed only the form from Oreat Britain, and not
touched the substance 7 Shall it be said, that the
House have a discretion as to appropriations, and
ret they must make them asdiiected by a Treaty 1
I) the House hare no discretion to use in the bu-
•iness, they are the most unfit body to regulate
money-matters ; for complete regularity in so large
I body must be one of tlie least of their valuaUe
properties. But, with the power of appropriating
money, the House have certainly the right to
judge of the propriety of the a^tpropriation. The
Constitution explains itself fully on this head. He
instanced the specific power in the Constitution,
with respect to appropriations for the Army, to ex-
plain from that instrument its meaning in other
parts.
The Constitution uy^ that no appropriations
for the support of armies shall be for more than two
yean; ibis is, no doubt, that the House may pe-
riodically have before them the question of the
propriety of supporting an armed force, with all
Its eonseqaenees, and that th«y may, by refusing
or grantiiuF an appropriation, determine on its ex-
utence. The power thus caotioiuly lodged must
hare been for some pur — " ' '' ' ' '
|csted cootd alone expli
This will showwhat was expected of
.his House in appropriating money; tnat they
ihould judge of the usefulness of the expenditure.
In the case of the Army, the Constitution does
not say that we may disband an Army by with-
holding money ; but for the purpose of investing
us with the same power, only requires that the
appropriation should recur every two years; taking
it for granted, that in thisas well as in every other
LegisUtive act, we will duly weigh every conse-
quence.
Having thus explained from the Constitution
lelf the true meaning of this power of appro-
priation, he proceeded to elucidate it by a refer-
*othc practice of the Government. He found
ilance in the permanent appropriations made
for the payment of the PobLc Debt. If the House
analogous cases, could exercise no dis-
to appropriations, why this permanent
provision, in preference to an annual appropria-
tion? The permanency of the provision took its
from the idea, that the House possessed a dis-
cretionary power as to appropriations. Thu^ he
had shown, that the practice of the Qovernment,
the provisions of the Constitution, and the exam-
ple of the British, from whom we had exactly
copied the control over money transactions, aU
proved a discretion in the House as to appropria-
tions. This must be considered as a sufficient
- to the gentleman from South Carolina,
he said, that the Fsbsioent and Senate
the Treaty-making power ; for they po»-
rith qualifications, in matters of money;
and unless the House chose to grant that money,
io far no Treaty.
member from South Carolina said, that
the idea of rmpeachment was renounced. He was
mistaken ; no member in the House could now
with propriety declare that when the papers are
produced, there may not be found ground for im-
peachment.
Another ground stated as a motive with the
friends of the resolution for the call for papery
was to throw light in a discussion of the merits of
the Treaty. The right of the House to view the
ipstrument in this light was contested, and doubts
had been raised ; but if the House had a discre-
tion as to appropriations, must they not take a
view of the merits of the Treaty t But even if
these donbts were not removed, even if the House
had not a right, or did not want the papers to dis-
cuss the merits of the Treaty, still another motive
existed acknowledged sufficient,which would cover
the requisition, viz : the power of impeachmenL
It was said, that the precise lue these papers are
meant to be put to, should be stated ; he repeated
that they must be seen before it could be known
what proceeding might be most properly groonded
on them. It was said, that the Pbesident may
refuM tne papers asked for if he thinks proper,
and that if he has a right to refuse, the House
cannot have the right to ask. The House ask for
particular papers, assert their right to ihem, under
a broad qualifying reservation, dicuied by their
own discretion, whieh prevents any embarm»-
I ment arising in pending negotiation* from it.
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HISTORY OF C0NGMS5.
448
Treaty with Onat' Britain.
[March, 179S-
It bad been said that the Prgbideht would have
sent the papers if it had been proper they should
be c^mrauiucated. Id one poini of view the Pbb-
aiDEifr mast have supposed thej could not have
heea wanted. Acting from pare iatentioos it
«oald not occur to him, (hat the condnet of the
ae^tiators of the Treatif deserved a crimiDal in-
vestigation. Id the other view it was no argu-
laent, for the House should not deviate from the
road' of their duty, by the belief, opinion, or con-
ception, of any man.
It was said, that by supposinf papers necessary
to elucidate the subject of the Treaty, '
Honse, who can claim a rigiit to a eight of the
papers, should decide without them, they, with
justice, might be reflected on for precipitation ;
but the people could only act on the information
^iven them, and on the general impressions the
instrument made. Besides, their judgment □□ it
was not 6nal, it was not to annul, it was only an
expression of their sentiments ; a Treaty also may
be so bad, as to impress a strong belief, that no
circumstances leading Id it can exist to prove it
tolerable.
The FaEBiDaNT's power over the laws had
been mentioned by the member from South Cn-
rolina, as analogous to that which the House had
a right to exercise on the present occasion. But
that gentleman had insisted, that he had only
their constitutionality to consult. Mi. N. diflercd
in opinion ; he conceived his right extended to
the examination of their policy in all Its relations,
before he gave them his sanction. He may hitherto
tiom his confidence in the Houses, never have
Saestioned the policy of their laws, but his not
sving used the powei did not deprive him of ex-
ercising it in future.
It had been said thai the Minister who nego-
tiated a Treaty was a private agent of the Execu-
tive, and not answerable to the House. This was
a strange doctrine indeed: Surely a Minister is
a Constitutional officer, and as such impeachable.
It has been said, that even if a Minister had de-
viated from his instructions, if his principal ap-.
proved and sanctioned the deviation, the agent
was no longer responsible. The doctrine he con-
sidered ai verjr dangerous. A Minister might
violate his instructions in a point not jusiifiedljy
existing circumstances; the change produced by
the negotiation might justify the principal in ac-
cepting the Treaty ; but though the latter might
be justifiable, the first could not. The conduct of
the agent might improperly bring the principal,
without good cause, into soch a dilemma as to
oMige him in a manner to accept the Treaty he
had made ; but ila ratification could not be a cloak
to the conduct of the Minister.
It was said, that if the Treaty was not the law
of the land, the Pbb8iobht shoold be impeached
for declaring it as luch. Paris of the Treaty the
Pbbmdbnt and Senate had, no doubt, a right to
make wllhoul any control of the House — those
parts he might be considered ai proclaiming; he
proclaims it, limited as hia authority, and under
that now conlemplated coaU be produced. No;
nor of such a Treaty, he ansiwereii.
He ooncluded bv a short lecapitulaiioii.
Mr. Heath spoke as follows : I always feel a
peculiar diffidence whenever 1 deliver my senti-
ments on any important occasion in this House,
for fear they may not be sufficiently matnred by
deliberation. Biit it appears to me the resolution
under con side mt ion, is essentially important for
two considerations: first, that the request or call
for those papers contained in the resolution, is a
Constitutional rigbt of this House to exercise now,
and at all times, founded upon a principle of pnb-
licity essentially necessary in thi^ our Repunlic,
which has never been opposed^ that I have either
heard or read of since the nfst organization or
operation of this Qovtrnment ; and, secondly^ be*
cause, at ibis particular conjuncture of ouraSairs,
more especially since the Treaty lately negotiated
with Great Britain has created so much uneasi-
ness and solicitude in the public mind, we there-
fore ought to pursue every method in our power
to allay their sensibility. It is more than pro-
bable, when those papers are exhibited to pnolic
view, it may have so agreeable an efiect as to re-
concile fully the feelings of the people to the pro-
priety of the negotiation as well as the instrument
Itself! I nm sorry, Mr. Spbiker, while we are
only on the threshold of the Treaiv, in point of
discussion, thai some sbntleraen (alluding to one
or more of their colleagues) should express so
much prejudice against the Treaty itself; betore
a full and mature investigation of the subject.
Mr. H. called the attention of the House to the
PaEamEnT'a Speech at the opening of the session.
The PREB[nENT, be observed, in that Speech, on
the subject of the British Treaty, says, that when
the resolution of the King of Great Britain should
be known, he would lay the subject before Con-
gress. When he spoke of the Indian, he only in-
timates that he will lay the articles of the Treatv
before them. He deduced from this striking dif-
ference in the language of the President, when
speaking of the different Treaties, this conclusion,
that the pREeineirr wished, himself, to lay the
whole business before them for the satisfaction of
the House, and of the people, which could not be
done wilhont a surrender of those pspen of cor-
respondences and documents had and used in the
late negotiation. Mr. H. cited the article of the
Constitution, showing all money-bills and appro-
priations to belong Id this House ; and ihat the
money of the people should not be voted out of
their pockets without giving them the utmost
satisfaciion, far passing the laws to this efiect.
80 that, upon the whole, I have no doubt in my
mmd of the right, policy, and propriety, of this
House in callinf^ for the papers ; and therefore, 1
trust, the resolution will obtain.
Mr. SwiNwicK expressed his sense of the im-
portance of the subject before the House, and the
pleasure which be experienced at observing the
calmness and temper with which the discussion
bad been carried on. He did not conceive, how-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
UO
Harcb, 1796.]
Trta^ vilh Gnat Britain.
[H. orR.
ever, that the decision of the pieieiit question Ld'
rolrerf the sense of the House as to the meiits of
the Treaty J the object of the resolution was only
to obtain that knowledge necessary for an en-
lightened decision ; it hM been observed, that the
Treaty had been censured by assemblages of
people with precipitaucy, and without proper io-
formatioo. Th^y did this on the best iaforinalioQ
that could by them be obtained. But if ibe House
should go Into a Committee of the Whole, to lake
into consi deration the Treaty, without obtainiog
«U the inforoutioa in their power, (hey would
be justly to blame.
In the course of the debate, it was generally
urged agaiast calling for the informatioo, that the
House had nothing to do with the subject ; that
the Treaty beine the law of the land, the House
had nothing to do but to acquiesce. Even if that
were the case, be saw no itapropriely in calling
fcs the information, which the PaEeicBHT could
withhold if not proper to be eireu. The House
■reie daily in the habit of callin); for inforraatipn
ia this way. Oa the subject of the NaTii Equip-
ment the other da^, information was called for.
The piesent is an important subject, iuvolviag ell
the great commercial interetts of the country,
grants of money, regulations concerning our Ter-
ritory. If information is called for on matters of
lesser moment, should it be denied on objects of
the utmost importancel Some gentlemen had
conteoded that Treaties were laws, with which
the House had nothing to do. He beliered, that
all the membeit of the House felt an equal zeal
for the public welfare, and to act under the Con-
stitution, accoiding to its (rue import; but it was
unfortunate, that a Constitution, however care-
fully framed, would comaia parts liable to differ-
ent constructioixs } even the Bible wiu not free
from this: different deductions were made fVom
the saoie texts by diSereot tbeologisls.
He adverted to the Constitution ; according to
that instrument, the Legislative power is com-
pletely vested in Congress. By the ath section
of the 1st article, not only a certain specification
of powers are granted to Congress, to lay and
collect taxes, regulate commerce, &«., but the
very extensive further power, not only to make
all laws-which shall be necessary and proper for
carrying into execution the foreEoing powers, but,
also, all other powers vested hy this Conslilu-
lion in the Ghivernment of the United Slates, or in
uy department or officer thereof. If, then, Con-
greu hare the power to pasH laws to carry into
execution all powers vested by the Constitution
ia ibe Government of the United States^ or in any
department or officer thereof, how is it possible
that there can be any authority out of the pur-
view of this general and extensive Legislative
eoDtiol 1 In the Treaty-making power not a power
nested by the Constitution in the Qovemment of
the United States, or in a department or officer
■hereof? If it is, is the concrusion not obvious,
that Oongrem have power to pass laws for carry-
ing these powers into effect? But in the power
to pau laws, discretion is necessarily imjtlied ; of
conite, tbis Houte must judge whea it i* to < — * ~
effect the
whether it will, or will not, carry
object in question. It is a power,
great delicacy and responsibility, bi
a power constitutionally given.
The member from South Carolina construed
(his part of the Constitution in a different way,
and insisted that, as the PnESiDEftT and Senate
had the.pawer of making Treaties, the House were
divested of the right of exercising their judgment
upon the subject If this doctrine prevails, to
wdhI a situation would the Representatives of a
free people be reduced 7 The Constitution espe-
cially gives them the power of originating money
bills; but to what purpose would this power be
granted, if aooiber auibority may make a con-
tract, compelling the House to raise money 7 Sup-
Eose that authority were in this way to grant mu-
ona upon millions, must the House, at all events,
be compelled to provide for their payment? In
this case tlie House become meie automatons,
mere Mandarine members, like those who nod on
a chimney-piece, as directed by a power foreign
to themselves.
Great stress is laid upon the Coastitation de-
clariug Treaties laws of the land. This aiti-
cle has often been quoted partially, but not at
large. It is in these words: " This Constitution,
and the laws of the United States which ^all be
made in pursuance thereof, and all Treaties mad^
or which shall be made, under the authority of
the United States, shall be the supreme law of
the Innd." Had the clause stoppM here, there
migbt have been some plea for the gentlemen's
doctrine ; but, unfortunately for theid, the artide
goes on to say: " And the Jud^ in every State
shall be bound thereby, anything in the Consti-
tution or laws of any State, to rae contrarr not'
withstanding." Hence, it is obvious, that tne su-
Eremacy of liielawisorer the ConstilotioD and
Lws of the separate States, which was necessarj'
to prevent these inteifeiing with those. But it
does not affect the powers of this House, as a
component part of the General Legislature, and
authority of the United States. It is also woi^i
while to notice the gradation in the article.
First. This Constitution.
Secondly. The laws which shall be made in
parsuance thereof, clothed with the highest sanc-
tion of the nation, the consent of the llutce
branches.
Thirdly. Treaties. How absurd the doctrine,
then, that these last, third in order, can repeal the
second : at that rate, all power whatever would
remain vested in two branches only of the Gw-
vemmeot ; the third^ with all its powers of ori^-
natin^ billa for raising revenue, vonid be dwin-
dled into a mere board of assessors.
The gentleman from Vermont said, yesterday,
that if tne Pbebioeht and Senate were to make
a Treaty, and that House were to refuse to make
due appropriations for carrying it into effect, it
wouldtiecome a nullity, and no foreign nation
would In future treat with such an uncertain Go-
vernment. Mr. 8. observed, that that gentleman
would probably be surprised, when he was told,
thai the British U()iue of Commons pnwmrn the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
TVtaiy with Grtat Britain.
[Mai
1,1796.
tune power which he reprobates in the Legiala-
tire Assembly of the United Slalea. This, Mr.
S. proved, by reading the Kins'i speech to both
Houses ot Parliament, id whicn he informs (hem '
of this Treaty, and promises to lay it before them
when raiifiedj in order that they might jndge of
the propriety of makinff provision lo carry it into
effect. What, judge 01 the propriety.of passiog
laws to carry ioto effect a Treaty ratified! And
shall it be said, exclaimed he, that the Represent-
. ative Assembly of the United States does not
posEes.1 a privilege enjoyed by an English House
of Commons [ He hoped not. Ah this power of
deliberation, with respect to appropriations, mieht
be considered a new doctrioe. Mr. 8. proposed to
read two extraats from a work, entitled "The Fe-
deralist," from pages 101 and 103.
Mr, WiLLiAMa objected lo the extracts being
read, but the House overruled the objection.
Toe extracts are these :
" A branch of knowledge which, belongs to the ao-
qniiemenls of ■ Federal Representative, and which hu
not been tnmtiinied, u tbit of foreign aflura. In re-
guIaUng our own commerre, he ooght to be not only
acqiuinled with the Treatiee between the United Statea
and other nitiong, bat tiao with the commerdal policy
and laws of other nationa. He ought not to be iltoge-
tber ignorant of the law of nations, for that, ai br it ii
a proper object of Manidpal Legation, if submitted
to the Federal OoTdmment. And, althongh the Hmue
of RepreaentatiTca is not immadiatelj to partidpata in
lonigB negotiatioDa and arrangementa, yet from (be
nnrnniij cbnneiioa between the eeveral branches of
potdic affiura, thoae particular btanche* will frequently
deeerve attention in the ordinary course of legislation,
and will sometimes demand particQlai Legi*lati*e sanc-
tion and co-operstion." — Page 103.
Here the doctrine of Legislative. suction and
co-operation is plainly admitted.
" It is agreed on all hands, that the powers pt^eriy
belonging to one of the departments, ong^t not to b«
directly and completely administered by either of the
' other departmants. It is eqoally evident, that ntdtlker
of them ought to possess, directly or indirectlj, an ovsi-
mling influanee over the othen in the adnunistration
of their respective poweia." — Pag* 'Bl-
If neither of the powers ought to possess, dl-
reoily or indirectly, an overruling influence over
the others, whence is the power to be deduced of
the PiiEsinENT and Senate, by Treaty, to make
laws possessing this very overruling influence
over this House ?
In the coome of this debate, Mr. 8. remarked,
he had heard some observations which he was
sorry to hear, and which be thought irrelevant.
It was said that encroachments on the Constitu-
tion were more likely to he made by that House,
than by any other branch of the Oovernmenl.
Whence, said he, arises this charge? How long
since this House hath become sucn a bug-bear —
such a scare-crow ■? What motives, can it be
supposed, this House poasesses, thus to encroach ;
of all the branches of the Qovemment, the most
transient and short-lived, elected hut for two years,
then returning to the mass ot citizens, what in-
terest have they in ancroachments ? Besidea,
ought we to be the Qrst to find this fault with our-
aelves 1 Are the other branches unable to defend
themselves, that we most suggest this to themi
All this is truly surprising. But, said he, is there
no danger from eneroachments in other quarter?}
When gentlemen talk of that House being bound to
make appropriation* without inquiry, it was time
for them, at least, to beware of encroachments.
What the House now wauled was information;
they wanted to know for what purpose they were
about to grant money, before tnev granted. He
trusted that House would always be cautious how
they parted with the money of the public. In no
instance, be said, had they been charged with be-
ing too scrupulous in that respect.
One gentleman from Vermont called upon the
House to beware of encroachments, lest they over-
turned their Republican Ooverument; he said
we were now to show how far we possessed the
power of self-government ; why, wiiat other Oo-
vernmenl would the gentleman have? Are the
thrones of despots more secure than Republiesi
Alas ! all Governments have been tried, and have
succeeded each other; but still the imperfection, of
man himselfmustbe shared by his Goyemmeitt, be
it what it may. But wns not this Government, he
said, as likely to be administered wisely, as any
other existing Qovemment 1 There may. and
will be, differences of opinion on this and almost
every other subject ; hut he trusted there was suf-
ficient information and uprightness of heart in
the country, to prevent any danger to their Go-
vernment. He wished every subject which came
before the House, to ba freely ana fully discussed ;
and whilst the same good temper was observeil
which had been so conspicuous in the present de-
bate, he trusted that no evil, but the greatest good,
would arise from such discussion.
March 9. — In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. Liviroston's resolution, Mr. MuHLenBEao to
the Chur—
Mr. N. Shith said, he agreed with gentlemen
who asserted that there was no Ctmstitutional
question included in the resolution on the table.
He believed it perfectly accorded with the Cod-
stitutioQ to ask the Pbbsident for papers, when
they could be of any use to ibem, and that the
PRBaiDBNT had the same privilege to ask for in-
formation from the House. Indeed, he believed,
whenever any one of the departments of Gorem-
ment wanted information from any other depart-
ment to enable them to perform their Conslitu-
tiooai functions, it was highly proper to call for it.
But he did not believe they ou^ht to pass the reao-
lution, unless some specific object was pointed out,
to which the papers could be applied, and for
which they mi^t be of uae to them. That they
could do no barm, in his opinion, was a very poor
reason for the interposition of the House. He
wished never to pass a resolution on idle and
ridiculous grounds, but because it was founded in
solid reason and propriety. Such renrans, in his
opinion, had not been offered in favor of calling
for the papers. When he admitted, that in calling
for papers, distinctly considered, there was no im-
conatittitionality, be did noi mean to be undetalood
;dbvG00gle
HISTCmT OF CONGRESS.
Hadch, 1796.]
'IVtaty mlh Qnat Britain.
[H.D
(osaTthat there was Dot a Constitutional question
iDToIrptl in the ttiscussion. He thought there was
<me, of the highest iniignltude; no less than whe-
ther the House of Representatives hare a right to
judge over the heads of th« Pbkbidbnt and Se-
nate on the subject of Treaties. But this was
a necessary consequence of the reaoiuiion, and- if
eenitemeD would show any other sufficient cause
tor calling for the papers, he would agree it ought
to pass ; and althou|rh he could see no other siSh-
cieni cau^ for passing the resolutlou, yet if gen-
tlemen would declare, they did nof WKUf '
judge of the Treaty, they would at least
the trouble of opposing rt. But while the advo-
cates of the resolution assign it as a reason for the
call, that we waut them to enable us to maki
our mindj on the merits of the Treaty, can they
blame gentlemen for attempting to prove that the
House of Repreaentatives nave no right to judge
on a Treaty? The advocates of the resolution
had, since the introduction of it, several times
changed their grounds; assisning, al different
Ihnes, very different reasons in favor of calling for
the papers in (question. What were their reasons
for thus changing and shifting was to him a mat-
ter of no consequence, since all the reason? w^ich
had been offered in its favor, were, in his opinion,
capable of conclusive answers. He should en-
deavor, be said, in answering what had fallen from
different members in favor of ihe measure, not to
travel over the Rround which had been taken by
^ntlemen who had gone before bim, on the same
side of the qneatioD. It had been said, that in-
formation would tend to allay the sensibility of
the pnblic mind, and that nothing wss more de-
sirable than publicity in all Qovernmental pro-
ceedings. But, he presumed, it would be admitted
that there was a great difference in that respect
between the business of an Executive and the
Legislative. He believed it must also be admit-
ted, that each department of Qovemment ought
to be the sole jud^e when to make any part ofits
proceedings public. Besides, if the object is to
publish tnem, in that case there ought ' '
resolution ? If it went lo the PsEainEMT, would
he not suppose the papers asked for were wadted
to Bssiil the House lu legislation? He would
never conjecture they were wanted to be publish-
ed, and it woald be wrong to publish them. It
was said, by a gentleman from Pennsylvania, that
the papers were wanted to explain doubtful parts
of the Treaty. He had wondered Ihe gentleman
could say this, when on a former occasion, on dis-
CQssing the subject of the Federal City, the same
gentleman had declared, that a law must be con-
strued from the face of it, and that nothing eitra-
neouj to it conid be admitted. The sentiments of
the gentleman, delivered on that occasion, exactly
accorded with his. Indeed, he said, it would be
absurd tp oblige people to obey an instrument ac-
cording to the faceoril,*ndyet suffer that insiru-
meni to be essentially altered and changed from
extraneous cireuuuianees ; and to say it is not to
be obeyed, according to themaniAM constnieiion
from the fiiceof the law itself, u saying thai it
amounts to nothiiu at all.
It has been saiilj \\Ki these papers are wanted
for the purpose of impeaching the negotiator, or
PiiBBiDENT OF TBH UifiTBD Btates. This, the
gentleman from Pennsylvania bad acknowledged
coold not be considered as an object of the call,
unless it had been mentioned in the resolution it-
self. He was quite willinKi however, that any
gentleman who wished ror an impeachment
should vote for the resolution. He believed the
nnmber would be very smalL But he hoped
gentlemen would not pretend ihey wanted them
for an impeachment, when in fact they had no
such idea. He hoped they would not make that
the ground of their vote, when in fad they wanted
them for a different purpose. He extremely re-
gretted, that the friends to the resotution had m
Had this been done in the resolution, it would
have prevented much confusion and embarrass-
ment. He believed, however, that the great ob-
ject was to obtain the information, for the purpose
of enabling the House to jndire on the merits of
the Treaty. He shoold, therefore, take the liberty
to answer gentlemen on that groiind. It has been
said, the Pbebidhnt and ^nate have not the
power lo make commercial Treaties. If this is
the case the Treaty is absolutely void. Then
why want papers 9 Whether the PREaiDinT and
Senate have the power to make commercial Trea-
liesor not, il must be extremely clear, by recnrring
to the Constitution, that Ihe House of Represent-
atives have no right to make Treaties of any kind.
But it in said the Treaty contains commercial re-
Slations.and therefore is subject of their inquiry.
i said they had a right to legislate with respect
to commerce, but not to make Treaties on that
head. If they had, he asked, from whence do they
derive the power? Let the Constitution be search-
ed from beginning to end, and not a syllable will
be found which bears an appearance of design to
give the House of Representatives a participation
in the power of forming contracts with foreiga
nations. Besides, if they tiad a right to judge of
ir, they ought to have had a hana in making it.
It has been said, that in England the House of
Commons claim a right to judge of the lAerits of
Treaties, and withhold their aid whenever they -
think proper; this is not peculiar to the House of
Commons, it is in Parliament at large. But why
niroduce this by way of precedent to guide us in
;onstruing our own Constitution 7 They haveito
such written Constitution as we have; ineirCon-
ia entirety made up of usages and laws.
er you prove, iherefote, that they have an
usage like the one thai is mentioned, of judging
on Treaties, you have then proved thatsoch is their
Constitution, and if our Constitution expressed in
terms what theirs expresses by their usages, there
could be no doubt but that the House shoold have
the right. In construing a written Constitution,
' introdace the practice in a country who have
written Constitution, can have no effbct but to
mislead. If gentlemen could ahoir oa a written
.dbyGoOgle'
us
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
lytaty with Ortat Britain.
[Mabch, 1796.
Constitution ic Engluid wherein the TreaCy-
maktDs: power is eiclusiyely vested in the King,
with the advice of the Houiie of Lordi, iiad undei
EUch CoQsticuiion the House of Commons claim-
ing a right to interfere ia (be subject, their prece-
dent would then apply ; unless, indeed, it were too
absurd to be considered as a precedent. He said
the two Qaveinments were perfectly diisimilar;
why, then, introduce the practice of that GoTern-
tnent as a guide for this'i He was well suited
with Che Constitution of America, and wished not
to assimilate it to any foreign Constitution, and
he hoped it would not be waiped and twisted to
become like tbeni. Were tiejr about to form a
Constitution, it might be desirable to take what-
ever was found good iu any other ; but when the
Constitution was already formed and marked out
by direct boundaries, in a manner too plain to be
mistaken, could it be of any use to inquire what
was the Constitution of other couniriesi He said
the Convention who formed our Constitution bad
avoided that paft of the British Constitution, as
absurd. In England, die Sing bas the sole power
of making Treaties ; but, afier the Treaty is made,
Parliament claim a right, in certain cases, to judge
of their merits, la this eoubtrv, the Convention,
in framing their Constitution, ud seen fit to add
the Senate to the PacsiDEM'r. in the business ot
making Treaties; and,sUll fur cner to guard the mat-
ter, required that two-thirds of the Senate should
concur; and then, as if to completely shut the door
against all further investigation of tneir merits, or
any cavilling on the subject, declared that a Trea-
ty thus maoe should become the law of the Land.
The Convention must be supposed to be tho-
rouf^ly acquainted with the usages in England at
the time of framing our Constitution, and appear
to have studiously avoided that part of their Con-
stitution. He said the time this usage found its
way into the English Government could not be
important, nor could the cause of it ; this much,
however, appeared very clear, that Parliameni
had no limits to their power; ibev could even
change the Constitution of the KingJort; a power
which no man will pretend is in the Legislature
of this country. But it is said. Congress haye
power to make the necessary appropriations or
withhold them, and that for the purpose of guiding
their discretion in this business, they must have a
iu;ht to judge of the Treaty. The whole fallacy
orthi* argument, he said, consisted in supposing
they had a right to judge of the merits of a
Treaty. Let gentlemen look at the Constitution,
they will find no such power given ; and if that
instrument does not give it, how do we come by
the power? The Constitution, he said, had as-
_:___:, .1 . - . ^ ...... ^ .... .J jjjg
,. rhen-
er, therefore, a Treaty came incidentally before
them, they were bound to consider it as well done,
having been done by a department constitution-
ally authorized for the purpose. As a citizen, he
had an opinion on the Tteatv ; and, in determining
whether the PnEsiosHT and Senate had deserved
well of Uieir country, he was ready on all occa-
sions to call it into exercise ; but as a member of
the Legislature he had noopinionj be wonld form
none; because the Cansiitution, which hia ccn-
siituents had given him asa^^oide to bis conduct
had given him do right to*tarm an opinion an
the merits of a Treaty. It was obvious, therelcre,
the papers could be of no service to him. Hut,
say, gentlemen, are we to sit down here and vote
lor a law which we believe a bad one? And iHie
eenileman had inquired what he should inlurm
his conslituenis, when they made inquiries of him
on the subject? He would answer both the in-
quiries: He thought the gentleman might justly
inform his constituejita, Uiat they, by ineir Con-
stitution, bad given the PnEainENT, with the ad-
vice of the Senate, the power of making Treaties;
and, having had no hand in making it, he was en-
titled to no share of credit or blame on account of
its merits. As to the former inquiry, he would
first see how far the gentleman's doctrine would
lead them, and would then give his own ideas on
the subject. The principle, if pursued, would
carry its advocates too far; for, on the same priu'
ciples, they had a right to judge whether a Pk-
BiDENT was a proper person to fill that office, every
tim? the question arose whether they should ap-
propriate for his salary. Affain, suppose the House
were about to appiopriate bt the salary of a Judge,
it might with equal pro[Miety be asked, are we
to pass a law which we believe a bad one 7— and
thence inquire into the merits of the Judge, and
see whether' the PaEBiDENT and Senate Cad ap-
eiected a very improper person as a Represeota-
tive ; on inquiry, mto the merits of the member,
they might, on finding this in their opinion to be
the fact, withhold an approprialioo for his salary.
But the true answer, ne conceived, to all these
cases was, that these were subjects on which the
Constitution bad given them no right to judge;
they were, therefore, to consider all as well doite,
being done by the pr(»er person« for the purpose.
The Pkebident. the Judge, and the Member, so
far as it respects us, in our appropriations, are to
be considered as (he most proper persons, however
our private sentiments may be. Just so respect-
ing a Treaty: the Constitution has made it the
duty of the PazaiOBNT and Senate to make Tre«.
ties, in as full a manner as it has to appoint Judges
and we are equally bound to consider all as well
done, and have no more right to judge of its mer-
its, than in that case to form an opinion of the
He observed, that as to the question, whether
they had a right to withhold appropriations to car-
ry into effect a law of the L^egislature, he wished
at that time not to controvert, as that would place
him on ground much weaker than the true ground
of discitssion. But, he asked, is a Treaty a law,
simply considered, and have the Legislature a
right to repeal it, as they may their own laws 1
No; it is a contract, bindingtbem toaforeign nation,
and when once it is farmed they have no longer
any power over il< He would state the true grousd
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HISTORY OF CONGRKSa
458
Mahob, 1786.]
Traatg mih Great Britain.
[H. o>R.
uriDK
of the busiaess as it appeared to bim. Tbe dis-
OMtion of that House was limited by the Conni-
tation, b? Treaties, and utlimatelv by the Isw of
light and of justice, and when he had aaid this, he
thooghttte bad completely defined itj foTalihougb
the House bad a discretionary power, yet (hat by
no means implied that they could exercise such
discretion on subjects placed by the Cooslitulion
in other hands. He considered Treaties, as they
respected that House, the saioe io point of princi-
ple as laws were respecting Judges of a Court. If
It should be asked whether a Judge had not a per-
fect discretion tm all the judgments be rendered,
no man would hesitate to say he had, and yet no
man in hia senses would say tbat became he had
b disciciioii he must therefore have a right to
^t whetfier a law was a eood one or not. But
'las no hand in making tae law, he is boond to
consider it a good one, b^tng made by the proper
Const] tutioDal department of GoTernmenl for
that purpose. He -said the House in alL their ap-
(tfoptiationt ought to exerci»e a sound discretion
in a* ample a manner as any oenileman pleased,
provided the; did not leap the bounds of the Con-
stitution and undertake to judge on aubjects
which they had no right to judge upon by the
ConstituiioD. He said, he considered the Pbesi-
foreigD nations; and T^en contracts were thus
formed, they were binding on the natim who were
to be considered as the principal. That the L^(tE-
lature were to be considered as another set of
Seots bound to carry the contract so made into
ect; and when the^ found a contract already
formed by the people in a manner pointed oat by
them in Ibeir Constitution, sbalt the Legidature
be quibbling and cavilling about carrying it into
effect ? Shall ihev btcalling for papers, and ques-
tioning whether the people have made a good bar-
gain or a bad one, woen the people hare not seen
fit to intrust tbe subject to their dtscrelion 7 Such
a piece of conduct, he conceived, wiiuld be usurp-
ing powers which the^ did not possess, and highly
disgraceful to the nation. Lest he shonld tire the
patience of the Committee too much, he would
proceed no farther, except just to remark, that it
nad been said, tbe PaEsiDENT might be pleased
with an opportunity lo send the papers. But could
not the PssBiDBHT have sent them if he had wish-
ed, without the intvposillon of the Housel If the
call was made, the Pbcsidint must either »end
them or refuse, and to do either would be embar-
woold not be placed in ;far if be sent them
explicitly saying, be had been negligent of his du-
ly in not communicating them before ; if he refus-
ed, it was setting up department against depart-
ment, a situation of^all others to be regretted. He
hoped the resolution would not pass.
Mr. Harpeb said, that it had not been hi:
tioo to trouble the Committee, in this stage of the
debate at least ; nor should he now depart from
his resohilion on that headj had be not observed
tbat tbe discussion was turning more and more on
4thCoH.— 16
points, which it appealed to him unnecessary to
decide. He did not cooceive tbat the powers tX
the House respecting Treaties were neeessan
to be considered; the question appeared capatue
-''a satisfactory decision on different gruuads.
When the motion was first proposed, he thought
innocent at least, and was in doubt whether it
light not be proper, because be "was in doubt how
far these papers might be necessary for enabling
the House to exercise tbat discretion on the snb-
ect of Treaties, which he admitted it to possess;
mt on a more accurate and extensive view of the
subject, and afVer carefully attendiue lo the dis-
cussion which had already taken plaee, he was
thoroughly persuaded that these papers were no
way necessary, and, that being unnecessary, toeall
for them was an improper and unconstitutional
interference with tbe Executive department
Could it be made to appear that these papers are
necessary for direeline or infonningthe House on
any of inose Legislative questions respecting tbe
Treaty which came within its powers, be should
propose to change the milk-and-water style of the
present resolution. The House, in that case,
would have a right to the papers ; and he had no
idea of requesting as a favor what should be de-
manded as a right. He would demand them,and
ist on the demand. But, being persnaded that
discretion hitherto cootEnded for, even by the
supporters of the resolution themselves, made
these papers necessary to the House, to catt for
them would be an nn constitution a I intermeddling
with the proper business of the Executive.
This, it would be remembered, was no new do^
ine to him. It would be remembered, that, in
the last session, very soon after he took 8 seat is
that House, he had opposed a motion, the object
of which was to request the Executive not to aut
fer a Treaty with the Indians to be held for a pa^
licular purpose, and had opposed it, because mat-
ing Treaties being the proper business of the E^
cutive department, for that House to interfere
n the subject, to req^oeat the Executive to treat
r not to treat, was an mterferenee with his duties,
□warranted by the Constitution, and tending to
embarrass his t^ratioas, and lessen his responsi-
bility. On the samegrouitd he should f^ipose the
present reaolotion.
It had been said, that this motion wa* of little
eentequence ; tbat it was only a request which
might be refnsed, and that the privileges of tbat
House were narrow indeed, if it could not request
informattoo IVom tbe Executive department. But
it would be observed, be aaid, tbat requests ttaai
bodies like that, carry the force of demands, and
imply a right to receive. Legislative bodies often
make the most fonnidaUe expressions of their will
in the ^ape of requests. It would be further ob-
served, tbat an honorable member from Pennavl-
vania, [Mr. Gallatin] after declaring that inis
indeed was only a request which might be refns-
ed, had added, that in case it were refused, it
would then be proper to consider bow br we
ought to make the demand, and insist <h> receiv-
ing these papers as a matter of right. After this
avowal of the sysieai, after this notice that tbe
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
TVeofy itith Qrtat Bntain.
[Mai
present request is no more than a prelimiDsry
measure, a preparatory step, and io case of a refu-
sal, is to be followed up by a demand, could it be
wondered that they whiJ think the measure im-
proper, should oppose it in the threshold?
Much astoni&hmeDl, he said, had been express-
ed by an honorable member from Virainia, [Mr.
GiLcaJ that the amendment proposed tue day be-
fore yesterday, had not been agreed to. His as-
toDisnmeDl would hare been lessened had that
honorable member adverted to what fell from
another honorable member from Virsiiiia, [Mr.
Nicholas] who yesterday supported tnis motion
with ereal ability and eloquence. He bad avowed,
and the avowal did houor to bis candor and spirit,
that the ameodmeai in question did not alter the
principle of the resolution. For that reason, he
declared, be liad voted for the' amendment be-
cause (he resolution, under any possible modifica-
tion, would carry with it the same meaning. I am
also of this opinion, naid Mr, H., and for that rea-
son 1 rotedagainstthe amendment; I voted against
it, because I thought the principle of the resalu-
lioD wroug, and that after the amendment tht
principle still remained. My high respect for the
mover of the amendment, my confidence in his
«andor, forbid me to doubt that the amendment
was intended to produce the effect pointed out by
him, to take away from the resolution all those
froperties which he regarded as objectionable.
iut he will pardon me Tor saying, that the reso-
lution, as amended, appeared to me a masked bat-
tery, a sap instead oi a storm, an ambuscade in-
.atead of an open attack, a [nil. whose gilding ren-
-ders it fairer to the eye, and more pleasant to the
4aEte, but leaves all its poison lurking within.
With this view of the subject, and because he
iiked those measures best which were the least
4lisguised, which carrv their tendency most plainly
on the face of them, Mr. H. had voted against the
amendment, that those who disliked the principle
.of the resolution might meet it in all its strength.
When this motion for calling on the Prehi-
DENT for the instructions and papers relative to
the British Treaty was first brought forward, an
honorable member from Connecticut [Mr. Tsacv]
had risen in his place, and with great propriety
requested the mover and suppcrten of the resolu-
tion to state the precise nse intended to be made
of tkesc papers. Did they comply with this re-
" No, they could not. Mr, H's, reliance
lAeir candor forbid him to suppose that they ei
but would noL The fact was, that they did
and he therefore supposed that it was not in their
power. They had talked much of the necessity
of understanding fulty th« course of the negotia-
tion; of the benefits of information on all Legis-
lative subjects; irf the propriety of publicity io all
the acts of Government.
A gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Baldwin! bad
observed, that publicity was always desirable in
Governmental proceedingB; more especially in the
proceedings of Republican Governments. He had
mformed (he House, that his mind had for a long
lime inclined more and more to Ibis opinion, and
he had at length become completely convinced
that nothing was more important, nothing more
desirable, than publicity in all our public transac-
tions. Mr. H. thought it much to be regretted
that the honorable member from Greorgia had not
arrived at this stale of complete conviction pre-
viously to the last motion in that House for clear-
ing the galleries. He would then, no doubt, have
opposed the motion. He would have argued with
bis usual ingenuity on the advantages of publi-
city, and would probably have sneceeded in con-
-'ncing the House that its galleries ought always
be kept open, that none of its proceeding
ight to be hidden from (he public eye. Bat stUl
it would have remained for him to prove, that
because we chose to adopt publicity in our pro-
ceedings, we have a right to direct the Executive
on the subject, and require him to publish his
proceedings also. Infoimation about the Kxeca-
live proceedings woirld no doubt be agreeable to
the people, from whom the-PREBiDEirr derives
his anihority, and not from the House, To the
people he is accountable ; and if he should thiilk
fit to withhold from them information, by receiv-
ing which they would be gratified, he was the
proper judge of the propriety of doing so, and
must answer for his conduct. The House had do
right to direct him. If the House had such aright
over the Executive, he being also a representa-
tive of the people, equally bound to consult their
interests, their rignts,and their wishes, must ha^e
the same right over the House, and might in his
turn direct them how far they ought to make
their proceedings public for general information.
A motion had for some time been laid on (he
table, by an honorable member from Virginia,
(ending (o exclude printers from the House.
There could be no doubt about the power of
adopting such a measure, though its expediency
would probably have been found liable to very
strong objections. Suppose it had been adopteo, '
and that the President had sent a Message in-
forming (he House, (hat publicity in the proceed-
ings of^Government was a very desirable and ne-
cesary (hing, that he wished to know the grounds
and reasons of measnres that might be adopted,
and that the resolution ouzht to be rescinded.
How would such a Message be received 1 Yet it
would be perfectly justifiable on all the reasons of
general publicity which had been urged in favor
of the present resolution. If (he I^use had a
ight to direct the Executive on this subject, it
nust, by the same i^rinciples, have a right also to
iireet the Senate, The delibmti<ms which led to
the ratification of a Treaty in the Senate are as
important to be publicly known, as the ne^iia-
tion which led to its being signed by the Minister.
We ought, therefore, if we act consistently, to
request the Senate to let their eallery remain
ODen for general information, while they discuss
Executive subjects. The Senate must have the
same right to make this request of the House.
Suppose the Senate should send us a resolution,
requesting us not to shut our gallariea, or not to
exclude prin(ers from the Hall? HoW would it
be received t Certainly with great indignatitm ;
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
HkECB, 17960
Treaijf with Great Britain,
[H. or B.
■ndyei cm the principlea eoDienJed for, it would
be wrfcctlf right.
These being the abjeciioua to the principle of
caJling for papers. for geaeral in formation, Mr.
H. presumea, that it was uot on thia ground these
papers were to be requested, but for some precise
tpeeifie purpose, to eoabie the House to exercise
some Legislative fanclioD. What were these
fimetioas? First^To institute an inquiry into
the conduct of those who had 'been concerned in
making the Treaty. Second — To take up the
Treat; itself, and judge how f&r, and in what
■uoner, it should be carried into effect. , These
wvre the only possible fbDctions which the House
eottld exercise on the subject of a Treaty ; and
they were functions entirely distinct. It had been
rightly obserred by a gentleman from Pennsyl-
rania [Hr. Oali^tin] tnat if an iuquiiy into the
conduct of those who made the Treaty were the
object, it ought to hare been stated in the pream-
ble of the resolution. Bat this is so fat from be-
iag done, that its advocates declare the PaEainENT
to l)e far removed abore suspicion, and intimate
no intention of calling any other person to ac-
count. But It was asked, how could members
know ^vhat use would be made of evidence till it
was produced 1 He asked, in his turn, whether
this evidence had been kept secret? Far other-
wise. The mover of this resolution, as Chaii-
man of the Committee on American Seamen,
together with the whole committee, had been al-
lowed access to these papers, and nad inspected
ihem. The s;ime privilege, he doubted not, would
be given to any member of that House who
iroDld request it. As the papers, then, had been
seen, a* their contents were known, gentlemen
miRfal state the precise use intended to be made
of them, and ought to do so. Should a motion be
made for the production of these papers, for the
parpose of instituting an iaquiry into the conduct
of tlie negotiator, or any of tbojc concerned in
making the Trealj, he would second and suppc|tt
the motion. If this object was intended, it might
and ought to be stated, and till that was done, the
motioa ought not to be agreed to on thai ground.
It had b«ea alleged that publicity in this busi-
ness was avoided — that the light was shunned.
Par otherwise- He wished the papers in ques-
tion were laid on the table; it would be gratify-
iag to him, and he believed much ,to the credit of
kirconcnned ; but he could not consent to call
for tliein, because that implied a right to possess
them, which he coidd never admit.
The second use, he observed, that might be
onde of these papers^ was to give the House in-
formation on some of those Legislative questions
which it might be called la decide respecting the
Treaty. Much difference of opinion had arisen
abotit the Legislative powers and discretion of
the House on the ^object of Treaties,- Some gen-
>Iem« extended this discretion very far ; others
eooBafd it within very narrow limits. This ques-
tioo bad been ^ery ably discussed ; but if it had
not, he should not now enter into it, because he
bought it uBoecessftry to the present decision.
Tie quatioo w«a, Are these papers necessary for
enabling the House tt
it (rossesaea bn the subject? He believed, that
taking ibis discretion in the utmost latitude that
had been contended for, the papers were not ne-
cessary for its full exercise. What was the -dis-
cretion contended for? It was threefold. 1. To ■
judge about the constitutionality of the Treaty;
2. To discuss the meaning of doubtful passages;
and, 3. To consider of the propriety of making
appropriations, or passing laws for carrying it
into effect. As to its constitution ality„ it must be
decided by the iostrumeni itself; it must be com-
pared with the Constitution, and judged by the
result. If ConstiCntional, on the face of ft, none
of the previonsnegotiaiionsbywhichit was brought
about, none of the instructions under which it was
framed, conid make it otherwise. So, on the other
hand, if unconstitutional in itself, the defect can-
not be cured by the instructions or previous cot-
respondence. So, as to doubtful passages, it was
a constant and invariable maxim that every deed,
every law, every written instrument of any sort,
was to be judged of and explained bv itself, and
not by recurrence to other matter. This was the
universal practice ofthe Courts ofLaw, who. when
called on to expound an act of the Legislature,
never resorted to the debates which preceded it —
to the opinions of members about its signification —
but inspected the act itself, and decided by its own
evidence. Should this rule be departed from, the
basis of taw and of ri^ht would be removed; all
the advantages of written records would be lo«^
and we should wander into the wide Gelds of
uncertainty and opinion.
It had been remarked, by the honorable mem-
ber from PennBylvaniii^hat,inthedispute between
out Government and Britain about the rneaning
of the sixth article of the Treaty of Peace, the
correspondence, and even the joornali of the ne-
gotiators, had been recurred to. This was highly
proper, Mr. H. said, when the ^rties themsdves
to a contract enter into a discussion about its mean-
ing, because thejr may explain it as they can mu-
it\aily agree. But the Treaty presented itself to
that House as a law, and it must of course be
expounded according to the rule for expounding
law». Besides, one party to a contract had no
power to alter it, and consequently must take it
lip and act upon it, not as it might have been in-
tended to be, but as it is on the face of it. Two
Ministers, moreover, engaged in a diplomatic con-
test, like lawyers defending a cause, would resort
to every topic by which they hoped to strengthen
their argument; but the House acted judicially,
and, instead of following them in these excur-
sions, must conBne its view to the instrament
itself, and explain its provisions by its strict letter.
If they departed from the instrument itself, they
might go not only into correspondences, but into
the deliberations of the Senate, and the consulta-
tions of the PRBsinENT; nor would there be any
further limit by which they could be stopped.
As to appropriations, Mr. H. had no doubt that
the House might withhold them in the same man-
ner that they might withhold appropriations fOr
any other law, or that the PsssiDBirr might refuse
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
"R-]
Treaty with Great Britain.
[Maeob, 1796.
to appoint oSGcers under a law which be should
deem totallvsubTersiTeoflbe public good. Every
branch of tlie Goverument, in extreme cases, has
a right to oppose itself to toe other branches, and
arrest the progress of destructive measures. The
Judicial power might make a stand, and refuse Co
execute a law. This discretion, he trusted, would
never be used. It must, indeed, be a desperate
ease which would justify its use. This discretion
of the House to refuse appropriations being ad-
mitted, how were the papers in question necessary
to its exercise? A Treaty is made, and we are
called upon to carry it into effect. What, then, is
the question which this discretion oiables us to
ask? Not whether the Treaty be good or bad ;
not whether it was proper to make a Treaty at all,
or whether a better one might have been made:
all these considerations belong to the Treaty-
making power, which is vested in the President
and Senate. But the question was^ whether the
Treaty be so bad that the public welfare requires
it to be broken ; whether it is a less evil to aban-
don our national faith — to destroy the raspeeta-
bility of our Government in the eyes of foreign
nations — to haiard disunion and contest between
the different departments of the Qovemmenl — or
to execute the Treaty as it stands. This was the
question, and the only one ; and how were these
Mpers necessary in deciding thisquescion 1 If the
Treaty were so bad that it ought to be broken, that
irould sufficiently appear on the face oi it. Its
provisions would sp»tk for themselves, and nothing
in the correspondence or instraclioDs could be ne-
cessary to snow their deformity. They might
show that the Treaty was unskilfully oegoliated;
that it was unwisely agreed to; that better terms
might then, or might now, be obtained — but all
this, if fully established, would not authorize us to
break it: otherwise it would follow, that either
party to a contract might violate. it whenever he
ahotud happen to think it disadf antageoua
Mr. Habfbk illustrated his position by the fol-
lowing simile: If a man attempt my life, I have a
right to kill him for my own preservation. I eonld
not inquire whether he were a good ora bad man ;
whether his disposition towards me was hostile or
friendly ; but solely whether self-preservation re-
quired his death. If my life were not in imme-
diate danger from his attempts, howevar criminal
bis intentions or his conduct might have been, it
would be murder to kill him.
The House, he said, passed an annual apptonri-
Btion for the Military Establishment. Coald tney
relute this appropriation merely because they dis-
liked the establishment, and wished it to be re-
duced 1 Surely no one would say so. But if
they should be convinced ibat the Military Estab-
lishment was about to become highly mischievous
and dangeroBs, ihey could destrov it by withhold^
ing the appro prialicn. This would be an extreme
ease. And in like mauoer an appropriation for
carrying a Treaty into efiect might in extreme
cases be refused. The question in all such cases
would be, which is the greatest evil, to break the
Treaty, at the risk of public faith, of natiimal
honor, or to carry it into efiect T And this ques-
tion, he would ODce more repeal, must be decided
by the provisions themselves as they afpeax on
the face of the instrument. The papers could be
in no wise neceasarj ta the decision. To call for
tbeni, implied a right to rejudge the wisdom, the
exprdiency of the Treaty, after those points had
been decided by the proper authorities — a ri^t
destructive of the princi[des of the Constitution.
The harmony of the Government he said, de-
pended on ke«)ing the business of each defiart-
ment separate ttom the other. If one branch en-
croached on the rest, destruction to the wh<^e
must be the consequence. The Constitutioa had
defined the powers, had limited the sphere, of each
department. The Constitution is the will of the
pei^le, in whom the sovereign power resides, and
we are bound to obey it. We are as much bound
to preserve it from our own encroach men Is as
from those of the other branches. It was his love
of the Constitution, his love of the people, his re-
spect for their rights, and his belief in iheir_ sove-
reignty, which induced him to propose this mo-
tion. If the ConstitutitHi was ioTringed, whether
by the House or the other departments, the rights,
the sovereignty of the people were equally tram-
pled on, and it would be no consolation to them
that it was done by one hundred and five men,
rather than by thirty, or rather than by one.
Mr. GALiiiTiH conceived that, whether the
House had a discretionary power with respect to
Treaties, or whether they were absolutely bound
by those instrnments, and were obliged to pass
laws to carry them fully into effect, still there was
no impropriety in calling for thfe papers. Under the
first view of the subject, if the House has a dis-
cretionary power, then no Jonbt could exist that
the information called for is proper; and, under
the second, if bound to pass laws, they must have
a complete knowledge of the subject, to leain what
laws ooght to be paMed. This latter view of the
subject, even, must introduce a discussion of the
Treaty, to know whether any law ought to be t«-
pealed, or to see what laws ought to be passed. If
any article in the instrument should be found of
doubtful import, the House would most naturallr
search for an eiplanatioii, in the documents whicD
related to the steps which led to the Treatv. If
one article of the Treaty only be doubtful, the
House would not know how to legislate without
the doubt being removed, and its explanation could
certainly be found no where with so much propri-
etv as in the correspondence between the n^:oti-
ating parties. He incidentally answered » refer-
ence made in a former part of the debate, to some-
thing that had dropped from him on the Federal
City Loan Bill. He on that occasion insisted that
the law for the permanent establishment of the
Seat of Government should not be looked on as a
bargain ; that whatever might have been the views
of the members who framed it, that could not de-
rogate from the nature of the law ; and because
the law was no bargain he was of the opinion he
then expressed ; whereas a Treaty is a bargain.
But even, he insisted, if the House was not to le-
gislate npon the Treaty, they still have a right m
express an opinion on any important subject, and
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Uasch, 1796.]
TVeatfmtk Gnat BrOa^
[M.OPR.
this the; could BOt do aadenandmgly without in-
fonnatioD, aod in thit case without an examioa-
tion of the insuuctioas and conespondence that
led to the Tr«aly,aQd of the other documents that
related to the saVject.
Qentlemen had gone into an examinalion of an
important Coosiiiutioual queitioa upon this mo-
tii». He hoped this would hare been aToided in
the present stage of the btuiaessi butai the^r had
come forward on that ground hehad do objection to
follow tbemin it,andtore»tth« deeiiwn <fthe Con-
ttilutionaipowertt^ OottfretttMthefaieofthepre-
MtU queition. Hewoiild,therefore,$talehisopinioD,
that the Home Iwd a right to uk for the papers
propo«ed to be called for, because their co-opeis-
tioD and sraction wai necetaarf to carrj' the
Treaty iato full effect, to reader it a binding in-
ilrument, and to make it, properly apeaking,a Uw
<if the land ; because they had a nill discretion
eithettogiTeortoreAuetlistco-opcratiOD ; because
they moBt be guided, in the exercise of that dis-
cretion, by the merits and ezpediuicy of the
Treaty itulf, and thcTefoi* had a ri^ 10 ask for
every informalian vrhich could tnist them in de-
ciding that question,
One argument repeatedly used by erery irealle-
man opposed to the present motion was, '^ That
the Treaty was unconstitutional or not; if not
the House had no agency in the bosioess, but must
carry it into foil effect ; and if unconstitutional,
the question conld only be decided from the &ce
of the instiument. and no papers conld throw light
upon the question." He wished gentlemen had de-
fined what they undentood by a CoDsutotional
Treaty ; for, if the scope of their arguments was
referred to, it would not be found possible to make
an nnconstiiutionB] Treaty. He would say what
he conceived constituted the unconstitutionality
of a Treaty. A Treaty is anconstitational if ii
provides for doing such thing^ the doine of which
n forbidden by the Ckmstitutioo ; but if a Treaty
embraces objects within the sphere of the general
powers delegated to the Federal Gov^ment, but
which kavel>een exelnaively and specially grant-
ed to a particular branch of Oovcmment, say to
the Legislative department, such a Treaty, though
not uncoDsiitutionat, does not become the law of
the land nntil it has obtained the sanction of that
branch. In this case, and to this end, the Legis-
lature hare a right to demand the documents rela-
tive to the n^otiation of the Treaty, because that
Treaty operates on objects specially delegated to
the Legislature. HelumedtotheConstituiion.lt
Mys, that the Pbibidbht shall have the power to
nuke Treaties, by and with theadrieeandeonsaiU
of two^irds <a the Senate. Itdoes not say what
Treaties. If the clause be takro by itself, dien it
gnnb on authority altogetbM undraoed. But the
^tlMU«a quote aintfan dante of the Constini'
tkni. where it is said that thf Constitution, and
the laws made in purstumee thereof, and all Trea-
ties, are the mprcme law of the land ; and thenoe,
they iasist that Treaties made by the PnaioBNT
and Senate are the rapreme law of the land, and
that the power of making Treaties is imdalned
aad unlimited. He proceeded to oontroTen this
opinion, and contended that it waslimitcdbyothcf
parts of the Constitution.
That general power of making Treaties^ vmd»-
fined as It is by the clause which grants it, may
either be expressly limited by some other positive
clauses of the Constitution, or it may be checlad
by some powers vested in other branches of th«
Government, which, although not dimioishiw,
may control the Treaty-making power, Mr. O.
was of opinion that both positions would be sup-
ported by the Constitution ; that the specific Le-
gistaiive powers delegated toCougress were limit-
ations of the undefined power of making Treaties
vested in the President and Senate, and that the
Sneral power of granting money, also vested ia
ingress, would at all eteats be nsed, if necessa-
ry, as a ckeok upon, and as controling the'exep-
else of the powers claimed by the PamBBirr aad
Senate.
iwer is limited by the
first secti<« it is said
is granted to Congress,
consistently, we
of iL If it is at-
The Treaty-making i
ConstitntioQ, when in tf
that all Litfislative poi
To construe the Coi
must attend to all the _ _ .
tempted to be construed by referring to panicniar
portions, and not atiendins to the whole, absurdi-
ties must arfc<e. 9d in the present cose, by the
mode of constrnctioa advanced by die gentlemes
opposed to the motion. By one seotion it is d»-
cWed that a Treaty is the supreme law of the
land, that it operatesas a law; yet it ia to be made
by the PsBsiDEin' and Senate only. Here will
be an apparent contradiction ; for the Constini
tion declares that the Legislative power sWl be
vested in the three branches. By this constrttc-
tion there would appear to be two diAinct Legia-
latnres. How shall this apparent contradictionbe
reconciled? Some gentiemen, to solve the diK-
culty, had declared the Treaty-making power to
be an Executive power ; but a power of making
laws cannot be termed Eiecntive without involr-
ing on absordily ; the power of making Treaties,
although called an Executive power, is transfora^
ed into a Legislative one by tnose gentlemen.
The power of making Treaties is contended to
be undefined, then it might extend lo all snbiects
which may properly bMome the subjects « na*
tional compacts. But, he contended, if any olhet
specificpowers were given to a different branch
of thef&verameot, tlwy must limit the general
powen; and, to make the compact valid, it vraa
necesNry that, as far as those powarsclashedwiA
the general, that the branch holding the specific
shoiud concnr and give its sanction. If stilt it is ijt-
sisted that Treatiesarethesupreme law of the land,
the Constitution and laws are also; and, it mav
be asked, which shall have the preference 1 Shdil
a Treaty repeal a bvr or a law aTreaty 1 Neithcx
can a law repeal a Treaty, because a Treatf ia
made with the concurrence i^ another party — k
foreign nation— that has no participation m fram-
iug the law ; not can a Treaty mode by the PBiat-
mxT and Senate repeal a law, for the same rea-
son, because the House of Representatives have a
participation in making the Uw. It is a sonid
maxim in Government, that it requires the mat
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H-opR.]
TVeofy mth Great BrUaiit.
[Mabcb, 1796-
power to lepeal a law that enacted it If so, then
It follows that laws and Treaties are not of the
•aime Dal*ire ; that both operate as the law of the
land, but under certain limitations; both ate sub-
ject to the control of the Constitution ; they are
made not only by different Dowers, but those {low-
ers are distributed, under different modifications,
among the several branches of the Goremment.
Thus no law could be made by the I.egislature
jPYing themselTes power to execute it ; and no
Treaty by the Executive, embracing objects spe-
cifically assigned to the I>egislature without their
To what, he asked, would a contrary doctrine
lead 1 If the power of making Treaties is to re-
side in the PREHinEHT and Senate tinlimitedly :
in other words, if, in the exercise of this power,
the PBGeiDBNT anil Senate are to be restrained
by no other branch of the Government, the FbE'
•iDBifT and Senate mav absorb all Legislative
power — the Executive nas, then, nothing to do
nut to substitute a foreign nation for the House of
Representative, and they may legislate to any
extent. If the Treaty-making power is unlimited
mnd undefined, it may extend to every object of
legislation. Under it moae* may be borrowed,
as well as commerce regulated ; and why not
fnoney appropriated 1 For, arguing as the gen*
tlemen do, they might say the Constitution says
that no money shnll he drawn from the Treasary
but- in consequence of appropriations made by
law. But Treaties, whatever provision they may
contain, are law ; appropriations, therefore, may
be made by Treaties. Then it irotild have been
the shortest way to have carried the late Treaty
into effect by the instrument itself, by adding to
it another article, aiipropriating the necessary
anms. By what provision of the Constitution is
the Treaty-making power, a^eeably to the con-
struction of the gentlemen, limited 1 Is it limited
hv the provisions with respect to appropriations 7
Mot more so than hy the other specific powers
granted to the Legislature. Is it limited by
uw past? If not, it must embrace every thing,
ttnd all the objects of le^slation. If not limited
br existing laws, or if it repeals the laws that
«U£h with it, or if the Legislature is obliged to
lepeal the laws so clashing, then the Legislative
power in fact resides in theTaEeiDEHT andSenate,
^d they can, by employing an Indian tribe, pass
any law under the color of Treaty. Unless it is
Allowed that either the power of tile House over
the puise-srriugs is a cheek, or the existing taws
sannot be repealed by a Treaty, or that the spe-
eial powers granted to Congress limit the general
power of Treaty-making, there are no bounds to it,
it must absorb all others, repeal all laws in con-
travention to it, and act without control.
To the construction he had given to this part of
.the Constitution, no such formidable objections
could be raised. He did nut claim for the House
■ power of making Treaties, but a check upon
the Treaty-making power— a mere negative pow-
er ) whilst those wno are in favor ofa different
consimctioQ advocate a positive and unlimited
power.
Since this is the striking differeitce between the
doctrine held by tbe friends and by the opposers
of the present motion, why, added Mr. Q., with
some warmth, are the firHt endeaTOTed to be stig-
matized as rebellious, disotvanizers, as traiton
against the Constitution 1 Do they claim a dan-
gerous active power 1 No^ they only claim tbe
right of cheeking the exercise of a general power
wnen clashing with the special powers expressly
vested in Congress by the Constitution.
He should not say that the Treaty is unconsti-
tutional, but he would say that it was not the su-
preme law of tbe land until it received the sanc-
tion of the Legislature. He turned to the Con-
stitution. That instrument declares, that the
Constitution, and laws made in pursuance thereof,
and Treaties made tmder the authority of the
United States, shall be the supreme law of the
land. Tbe words are, "under the aulhoritv of
the United States," not signed and ratified by
tbe Prbsidekt : so that a Treaty, clashing in any
of its provisions with the express poweis of Cod-
Sess, until it has so far obtained the sanction of
ongress, is not a Treaty made under the autho-
rity of the United States.
Gentlemen had dwelt much on that part of the
Constitution which had declared the Constitu-
tion, Laws, and Treaties, laws of the laud ; but
they had avoided reading the whole of the clause,
and had not given to it its obvious meaning.
Why should the Constitution barely declare the
Constitution the law of the land, the laws the
law of tbe land, or Treaties the law of the land 1
All know that they are so. In all cotmtries they
are so, because made by the supreme anthority:
but, by adverting to the letter part of the clause,
the meaning of the former must immediately be-
come obviousv It runs as follows : " And the
Judges in erery State shall be bound thereby ;
any thing in the Constitution or laws of the inat-
vidual States to the contrary notwithstanding."
It would have been childish if tbe Constitution
had confined itself to expressing the first mrt of
the clause ; because no doubt could arise wnether
the Constitution, laws, and Treaties, were the su-
preme law of the land. But, as the General Giov-
ernment sprung out of a confederation of .States,
it was necessary to giv£ that Government suffi-
cient authority to provide for the general welfare,
that the laws of the Union should supersede those
of the particular States. There was thtis a valu-
able purpose to be obtained by the latter part of
the clause, viz i a positive provision declaring
which authority should be supreme in case of
clashing powers.
But Uie clause does not compare a Treaty with
the law of the United States, or either of theta
with the Constitution : it only compoies all the
acts of the Federal Government with the acts of
the individual Stales, and declares that either of
tbe first, whether under the name of Constitution,
law, or Treaty, shall be paramount to and super-
sede the CoDstitntioo and laws of the indiviaual
States. In that point of view are Treaties said
b) be the snpreme Uw, to wit : when standing in
otHnpetiiiou against acts of the several State* j
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Habch, 1796.]
TVao^ mth Grtat Britain.
bat the claase bf no means expremea that Treaties
are equal ot tuperior to the laws of the Uaion,
or that they shall be sapreme law when dashing
with %Tif of them.
To illustrate: He supposed that the PennsylYa-
Bia Legislatnre were to pass an act incorporating
the city of Pbilndelpbta, granting to certain bo-
dies the power to make regulations which shoutd
be the supreme law of the land : this would mean
only that tbey were so within their proper sphere,
and not that they were paramount to the laws of
the Biate or of the Union. The same of Trea-
ties: thiey are declared to be the supreme law of
the land, within the provisions of the Constitu-
tion, ana agreeably to the modifications therein
provided; 4>ut they are not declared to be su-
preme when compared, or paramount to th« laws
of the United Slates. The ConstitatioD is para-
mount to both laws and Treaties; and, when gen-
tlnnen gioand their arguments on the position
that Treaties are buperior or equal to the laws of
the Union, they take for vranted the very thing
which is to be proved. The natant construction
of the Treaty-making power was this, he eon-
teifded, that, as far a.-> a Treaty negotiated by the
Executive embraced Legislative objects, so far it
reouired the nneilon of the Legislature.
To give some additional weight to this con-
siruction of the Constitution, the practice of the
British Government had been quoted. It was
certainly proper, when about to construe oar own
Constitution, to compare it with the operation of
the Constitutions of other countries (hat resemble
onra in those parts to the coasCrnctliyn of which
doubts are raised. Whether there is a similarity
in general between the British Constitution .and
oars, is not the question : he hoped they would
not be asbimilaied more than they really were.
Bat, he contended, as to the Treatjr-nuiktng pow-
er, ihey were, in fact, perfectly similar. Both
nations give the power of negotiating Treaties to
their Executives: there the King eierci.ies it;
here the Senate, being a branch of the Execu-
tive, exercises it in conjunction with the Presbi-
DENT. The only difference here is, that two-
thirds of the Senate are necessary lo their forma-
tion. In other respects the power is the same in
the two countries. There the Executive autho-
rity has enjoyed this power from time immemo-
rial ; and here the PRESinGNT and Senate possess
it by the letter of the Constitution. It may be
said, (hat Great Britain has no written Constitu-
tion ; true, but the force of immemorial custom
forms theit Constitution.
He read a quotation from Blacktlone, page 257,
yol. i., to show that the power of Treaty-making
in England is as extensively vested in the King,
*> it caii possibly be said to he here in out Exe-
Gutire.
The foUowing is the passage alluded to :
* D. It i( also iha King's prerogativB to make Trei-
tiss. InsiiM, (Bd affiatiCM with tbr«ign Stotsi and
PrinMc For it is, l^ the Law of NatiwM, wential
U tha pMdtMM «r a Isogna, that It b* mida by dM aovB-
fuo ad Aoc. is vrated in the penmi of the Kin;.
ever conliacts, therstore, he engage* in, no other power
in Ibe Kingdom can legallj delay, nwif t, or annnL"
Af^r such a latitude as this clause given, it would
be supposed that there could be no check reserved
upon this power ; yet it will be found that Parlia-
ment have a participation in it. And the appa-
rent inconsistency is easily reconciled, by observ-
ing that the power given generally to the Execu-
tive of making contracts with other nation;, does
not imply that of making Legislative regulationx,
but that when the contract happens to embrace
Legislative objects, the assistance of the LegisU-
ture becomes necessary lo eive it efiect.
He proceeded to show the operation of this li-
mitation of the Treaty-making power in England
by the practice of Parliament. It was always
considered as discretionary with Parliament to
grant money to carry Treaties into effect or not,
and to repeal or not to repeal laws that interfere
with them. In citing instances of the exercise of
this power, he should not go further back than
their Revolution.
He then read several extracts from AtuUrton't
History of Commere, vol. iii., pages 269, "70, "71,
'72. They are so much in point that we tran-
scribe the most material passages :
" Bat we could not omit our animadnBtmioiu on the
eighth and ninth articles, as Ihey were ao exttaordina-
ry in themselves, and aa tbey oocaaioned to great a stii
and uneuinaB at that Iudh, as to have brought the
whole IVeaty of Commerce to miacsny then and ever
"Abi*. IX. That within the apace of two months
after a law ihall be made in Great Britain, whereby it
shall be suffieiently provided that not mor» cnatiMna or
dutie* be paid far goods and merehandiae bnmght from
France into Great Britain than what are payable for
good* and meichandiBe of the like natnra, imported
into Great Britain ftnm any other coootiy in Eumpe;
and that all laws made in Great Britain liiMe the yew
IBM tor prohibiting the mipntation of any goe& mr
merehandiae coming from Fninee, whidi ware not pro-
hibited before that time, be repealed, the genera] toiifl'
in France, on the 18th of September, in Sa nid year
1664, ahalt take plaoa there agun, and the dotiaa pay-
aUe in France by the antiiM*i of Gisat Britain for
goods imported and eiporlad, shall be paid aoemding
to the t«DOr of the tariff above mentimMd.
" When the said two aitklaa came to be known by
the meichania of Great Britain, they wan received
with the utmotf aurpiiae and indignation, and the
danuir wai loud and univeiaal.
" That the eranplfing with thoae two articles wonld
eBectusUy ruin the commerce ws carried on to Porta-
gal — the very beat branch of all our Enn^ean com-
merce. That (he aald eight articles di^ in, geoMvl
terma, put France on an equal footiag with Portugal
or any other of our best allies, in point of commerce."
" This is, in brief, the sum of this mercantile con-
troversy, which, when brought iii(o Pariiament, it waa
so apparent that onr trade to France had ever been a
minons one, and that if, tn consequence of acoeptinf
the said eighth and ninth ailiclea, the Britiah Pai)i»
ment ihoald oonaent to rednce the high dntka and
tak« off the pnAibitionB ao prudently hid on Frend
11^. _ :. ,,,,gjj eSscUally rain the vary bwt
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OP R.]
TVeofy leUh Gnat Britaiu.
[M^BOH, 1790.
w of our eommeroc, and voold ttunby dspnie
man)' hundred. tlwaHuid maniAfiunin of their lubnst-
emce ; vhicb ma alio nippotted by pBtittona bam min;
parts of the Kingdom : Tint, dthoDsh ■ great majnity
of that HoQte of ComiaDiu was in other respect*
eknaly attached to the miniitrj, Ihe bUl for agreeing
totkemrport of ike mid two articia wot rgeeted by a
majoniv of niiM voiea, aftei the moat eminetit mer-
chants had been heard at the bar of that Hiouse, to the
great jo; of the whole trading part of the nation, and
of all other impartial people.'
Thus il must be clearlv seen, that iLc consent
of Patliameoi was not only deemed necessary to
the completiOD of the Trealy, but that that con-
sent was refused, and that in consequence the
Treaty fell lo ihe ground, and was not revived
for a period of near eighty years, and all notwilli-
atanding tbe plenlitude of the Treaty-making
power, said by tbe best English authority, Black-
ttone, to be vested in the ETing; which was, how-
erer, he repealed, necessarily checked by the spe-
cial powers vested in Parliament; for none but
they could grant money, or repeal the laws clasb-
ine with the provisions of Treaties.
He cited another instance of the exercise of this
controling power in Parliament of even a later
date, viz: in the year 1739, in the case of a Treaty
between Spain and Great Britain, which was
sanctioned by a very small majority indeed in
Parliament. He cited a third eJample from An-
derton, Vol. TI., page 838, in the case of tbe
Treaty of Commerce between France and Great
Britain^ to show, that tbe practice of Ihe Parlia-
ment's interfering in Treaties is not obsolete.
The following is an article of tbe said Treaty,
which Mr. Gallatin read :
"II
Tnaty __ ,
take efbet, «i &r as TeUtei to the Kingdom of Oieat
Britain, as soon as Uws shall be paawd there, for ae-
etning to the nibf*eto of His Most Christiaii Majesty
the redproeal nj^meat of the advanlagss wbjdi are
gMDted to thsm by the Treaty.
•• Aad tbe adnntages by all these artidss, except
ths tari% shall t«k« elbot with regard to the KingdMi
of Ireland, as soon as laws ahall be pssaed there, fhr
•eevring to the subjects of His Most OhnstJan Majee-
ty, the redprocal enjoytaent of the advantages which
ate granted to them by thii Traa^ : And, in like man-
ner, the advaatagee granted by tbe tariff sluU take
eSect in what rslates to the ssiiti Kingdom, as soon a*
laws ahall ba passed then for glviBg efiest to Um said
UriO."
Upon this principle, founded on almost imme-
ntHtel practice is Qreat Britain, did the Minister
of that Kingdom, when ictroduciDg tbe late
Treaty with Prussia into Parliament, tell the
House, ihat they will have to consider the Treaty
and make provision for carrying it into effect.
On the same principle, when tbe debate took
place on that instrument, it was moved to strike
out tbe sum proposed to be voted, which would
have defeated it, and afterwards to strike out the.
appropriatioa clause, which would have rendered
the bill a mere vote of credit, and would also
hftve caused the Treaty to tail to the grauDd.
On tb«saiiie piiiiciple.the King of Great firiuin,
when he meationed tbe American Treaty, prom-
ised to lay it before them in proper seaaou, that
tbey mignt jtK^ o/'tAcjiropT^ufy of enacting tbe
necessary provisions to carry it into effect.
It remains to be eiamined, said Mr. G.,
whether we are to be in a worse situation than
Great Britain ; whether the House of Represen-
tatives of the United States, the substantial and
imn^ediale representatives of tbe Americaju peo-
ple, shall be ranked below the British House of
Commons ; whether tbe L^i«lative power ahall
be swallowed up by the Treaty-making authority,
as contended for here, though never claimed even
in Great Britain 1
In Great Britain, he remarked, the Treaty
making power is as undefined as in America.
The Constitution here, declares that the Paxai-
D£NT and Senate shall make Treaties; there, cua-
torn says as loudly, that the King shall make
them. Id Great Britain, however, the power is
lim)te4 by immemorial custom, by tbe exercise
of the Legislative authority by a branch distinct
from the regat ; in the same manner is it limited
here, not however merely by custom and tradi-
tion, but by the words of the Coiutituiion, which
gives specifically the Legislative power to Con-
gress ; and he hoped this authority would be ex-
ercised by the House with as muca spirit and in-
dependence as anywhere.
He had at first imagined, that the doctrine con-
tended for by the gesUemen, viz: that the House
had no discretion in tbe business ; but that, like
machines, they were bound to pass the necessary
provbions to carry into effect the Treaty, waa
quite new. He had, however, af^er much search,
found a precedent to keep this straage doctiinein
countenance here ; at least as far as the right of
granting money was concerned. Under the old
Government of France, the Courts of Justice.
nicknamed Parliaments, bad a nominal control
over the purse-strings, such as that here contended
for. If the King Wd a tax, they were to register
it ; but if they refused, they were either forced'to
comply, or the Kins raised the money without
them. Thus here, though the House have by the
Constitution, a particular and express control over
the purse, yet they are told tbey must register ; or
that, if they do not, it is treasoD against the Gov-
A gentleman from Connecticut up to-day, had
asked, whether the advocates for the doctrine of
free agency would refuse appropriating money
for a salary fixed by law, in obedience to the Con-
stitution, urging, that if they did, they would
commit a breach of tbe Constitution, and if they
did not thiok themselves authorized to refiue,
they must abandon their doctrine.
Mr. G. observed, that the power of raising rev-
enue and appropriating money is vested in' Con-
gress, and they ate to exercise their discretion in
the business; yet as a specU clanse of the Cou-
stitutioa says, thai the salaries of certain officers
shail not be increased or dinunished duiing their
term of seivioe, BOfar this operates as s restrict-
ing exoeptiou upon the geaefal powera; but waa
this tbfl caae laa to ths Treat^-maJdng- pawn 9
.dbyGoogle
HI8T0BY OF CONGRESS.
Mamch, ITflg.]
Tnaty vitk OreOt Br^mn.
[H.c
Does aoT claose of the CoDstitutloD direct tluti
money maii be appropriated to carry into eiecQ'
[ionany Treaty mftde Dj the pRcaisBNTand Sen-
ate, however cuuhfng mth the special wmen of
the House 1 Before the two cases can be consid'
ered parallel, it-musl be proved that Treaties are
paramount to the Constitution ; for on that nip-
poiitioD alone reitfi the argument that tbey, like
the ConilitDtional clauses relative to the salams
of the Pbibident and Judges, are special eicep-
lioDs to that general discretion ivhicb the HoQse
has a right to exercise on all Legislative subjects,
and especially on all money matters.
Bniif,asit was mid, the powers spectfically dele-
f^led to the House, are not to operate as a fimita'
tion of [he jteneral powers granted to the Pmai-
DENT and Seaate; if these powers are t»>ntended
10 be as unlimited as they are undefined, thea ibe
oeeessiiy of a cheek most strike as doubly necev
wry. The power of granting mooey shoold be
exercised as a check on the Treaty-making power.
The more unlimited the Treaty-making power is
contended to be, the more dangerous it is, and the
more should tbe House consider the power of
Dtiginating grants of money exclosively vested in
them ai a precious deponle.
He maintained, that the Treaty with Qreat
Britain, or any other in similar eircumstaneea,
was not, until the necessary appropriations were
mada, and until the existing Laws that stood in its
w«y were repealed, and the requisite lawsenacted,
the Btipreme law o! the land. Existing laws de-
clare, that gooda shall not be imported by land
into tbe United States, except in certain districts:
the third article of the Treaty allows a general
iuportation; the laws declare that foreign vessels
trading with us shall pay an additional ten per
cent, upon the dniies paid by onr own vessels,
the aame article again interferes here; in other
particnlars, alM, but these are sufficient to illns-
trale. Now,if the doctrineof gentlemen besanc-
tioi>ed,Bnd the House have no discretion left to
use OB the TresAy, but are bound thereby, specific
and explicit clatiaes in tbe Constitution notwith-
standing, tbe power of granting money becomes
nngitoty, and a Treaty, made by the Kxbcctitb,
may repeal a law. If a Treaty can repeal a law,
then the act of tbe Pkbbidbitt and Senate oan
repeat the act d the three branches) and al-
though all L^slative powers be vested in Con-
fess by tbe CtmstitutioD, yet Congren are
iioled by two of ita branehea ; thtwe rlani
the ConadhUion veatiiie the LegisUtiTe powers
in CongiesB are aanihiUted, and~tlM PaBaiDiHT
and Seaate, by eubstitatiiig a foreign nation for
the House oT lUpreaeBtBtives, assume, in fact, an
unlimited Lwislatire power; since, under color
of making l^ties, they miiy repeal laws, and
may enact lawa.
If this doctrine ii sane tiooed, if it is all«wed!, tht
Tieatiet BtayTCfvlaieamropriwion* and repeal
existing laws, i^ Hm Heuae, by rejecting tbe
pietait reaolulion deelnre, that ibey give up aU
eooirol, all right to the exereiie of ducretiaB, it is
taniaiMpnt to nying, that Ihey abandtm their
thaie in IcgidMioa, aod that they en
whole power should be concentereil in the other
branches. He did not believe such a doctrine
could be countenanced by the House. If gentle-
men should insist upon maintaining this doettine,
should deny the free agency of the House, imd
their right to judge of the expediency of carrying
the Treaty into effect, the friends to the inde-
pendence of the House will be driven to the ne-
cessity lo reject the Treaty, whether good or bad,
to assert the contested riffOt. If the ^ntlemen
abandoned this ground, toen the policy of the
measure could be weighed on fair ground, and the
Treaty carried into effect, if reconcilable to the
inteicKts of the United States. He concluded by
observing, that even if the right did not exist in
the House to judge of the expediency of cann-
ing the Treaty into effect, yet as they were lo be
made agents in the bosiness, at least in form, Ihey
could not be denied the piaperSj to see the reasons
wbicb led to the fDrmatitm of the Treaty ; and
even on that ground it had been said, that we had
nothing to do either with the merits of tlie
Treaty, or with tbe motives of those who made
it. He recollected but one late instance of a pre-
cedent for sentintents he had lately beard, with
so much surprise, on the &aca of the House, and
that was the sentiment expressed by- a Reverend
Bishop in England lately, who cootended, that
the people had nothing to do with the laws hut
obey ihem. The gentlemen here, however, cany
the doctrine still farther; for tney insist, that
even the Representatives of the People have not
a right lo consult (heir discretion when about ex-
ercising powers positively delegated to them by
the Coiuti lotion.
He hoped this danieroua doctrine would re-
iive a death-blow, and that the Committee woold
adopt the resolution.
The Committee rose, and obtained leave to sit
again.
The Honae then adjourned.
March 10. — In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. LiviNOsTOH'a resolution, Mr. Hartley deli-
vered his sentiments as follows;
As I was not present when tbia subject was first
introduced, it cannot he expected that I should take
any great share in tbe debate ; but some observa-
tions 1 have heard, chiefly from tbe genlleman last
up yesterday from Peiuisylvania, have induced me
to show a few grounds for my vote:
That gentleman has strongly combined this ra-
solution with the Treaty, and wjsbea that every
one wlia holds tbat there should he a co-oper>iion
of this House reapeetiag thai instrument, should
vote for the resolution. I think differently.
The gentlemen who contend for the mighty
power of the ExeoNlive and Senate, as well as
those wbo argue tat the great anthority of this
House, perhaps are on extremes; but tbe Treaty
oBght not now to be so largely under coasiiin*-
cicHi. I am willing, if it is thoi^ht ntapeiy to talta
it up at an early day, and. after a fuA faearing, will
vote as i hold right.
The gNitlemaB I referred to, frooi PHsnsylva-
nia, ar^ed most strenuonsly tsat the laws and
onttoms of Oreu Btitain aitd tbe CnMitniiaa of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONORESS.
TVeo^ with Great Briiai^
ibe United Statra ynxe anaiofoiu— Day, that th«
powers were preciselv the same.
The genClemeD wDO hold this • doctrine hare
made Tetearcbea, and have quoted several aathor-
itiei; but why hare tiot those inffenioui tcentle-
men diicorered a single instance wnere the British
House of Coniroonu have had the
giyen by the Executive to the negoliating 1)11
ter laid before them. If there was such a po\...,
no doubt thai body would at some period have
exercised it ; for no men on earth have extended
the power of piiviteges which they had further
than the members of the House of Commons of
Britain.
As those eentlemen who contend for the like~
Desa — indeed, sameness of the Traaty-mokinKpow-
era of both countries — can show no precedent, it
maj be fairly contended, that no such right exists
as u contemplated by the resolution.
Treaties are foadeunder the EUecutivein almuiit
all countries, and when the Ministers have gone
through their part of the business, the Treaty is
commonly laid before the nation. If any national
act b further necessary, it would pass in conform-
ity to the principles of good faith ; if Bujithing i:
, neeesuary (consistent with the Constitution) on
the part of the House, it will be the discussion of
another day.
Instructions to Ministers to tre
qaently of two kind»— public and private; the
former are sometimes shown to the opposite party,
the latter not.
In Executive acts there may be. in some caaes,
a necessity for secrecy.
There was a misunderstanding betweoi thi_
eountiy and Qreat Britain ; there were charges of
infraction and misconstruction of a former Treaty:
then, is it not to be supposed there were secret
instructions given to onr Plenipotentiary in the
late Treaty? Our negotiations with Britain, it
seems, are not yet at an end: any new articles
ureed to, and ratified, are to be added to the
Tnatf.
Besides, I believe we have other negotiations
(toiDg on elaewhere. The disclosure of any of the
uutructioiu, being connected with othere, might
Snt ns in the power of other nations without pro-
Being any ^pood to us.
The constitutionality of the' resolution may be
denied; at any rate, I consider it as highly impo-
lltie and improper.
I hope that tnose gentlemen who do not think
that the resolution must be combined with the
Treaty, whatever their ideas may be witii regard
to the Treatfj will vote against the motion.
Mr. OniawoLD said, that the resolution on the
table appeared at first view to be perfectly inno-
cent, and, he might add, of very little importance.
It amounted to no more than a request to the
PnBsiniNT to furnish the House with papers relat-
ing to the nMotintion with Oreai Britain, which
he miffht either satisfy or reject. But the discuR-
sion which had taken place in the Committee had
given the subject a very serious aspect, and in-
Tolved a question of the first importance; and
althongh some gantleman had thought that the
the discussion conld have been avoided. For gen-
tlemen would not say that any resolution — more
particularly a resolution catling on the PimeiDEMT
for documents belonging to the Executive Depart-
ment— was to pass the House without a conelu-
sive reason, innch lens withont any reason for its
passing. On this principle gentlemen had been
called on at an earlv period for the reasons on
which they groundeo tne resolution. They had
attempted to avsign reasons, but those reasons had
been generally abandoned ; and it c^uld not at that
time be seriously coulended that the objects of
faneral information or publicity, which had been
rst mentioned, could justify the House in callin|;
on the PnEatnexT for papers relating to the Bri-
tish Treaty, or that those papers were necessary
to enable the House to judge of the constilutioD-
ality of the Treaty. The friends of the resolu-
tion, aware of this, had at last come forward and
assigned a new and a very important reascHi. It
had been now said, that the House of Represent-
atives have a right to judge over the heads of the
PBKSinBHT and Senate on the subject of Tr^ties;
that no Treaty can become a law imtil sanctioned
by the House; aDd,in Sne^tbat the House of Re-
presentatives isa Constitutional part of the Treaty-
making power.
If these facts and the principles which grow oat
of them are true, be could not say that the resolu-
tion was improper; and althongh he did not luiow
10 what part of the Treaty the papera would par-
ticularly apply, yet, if the House viere to tike itkia
extensive view of the Treaty, and ultimately to
saiution or reject it, it would seem that the papers
relating to the negotiation ought to be laid before
them. But if these facta are not true, and the
Hon!« is not a Constitutional part of the Treaty-
making power, and the Treaty is already a law
without Its sanction, then the reason tails to the
ground, and the resolution ought to be rejected.
This inquiry into the powers of the House of
Representatives must be confined, and thequesticn
arising out of it must be decided by a fair coo-
struclion of the Consiitniion. The powers of each
branch of the Oovemmeni ore there limited and
defined, and an accurate nndetatanding of that
instrument would enable gentlemen to decide the
question 1
In comparing these ques^ons with the Consti-
tution, gentlemen were not, however, to inquire
whether that Constitution was a good or a bad one;
whether loo much power bad been given to this
I that branch of the Qoveniment. The ques-
will only be, what powers has the Constitu-
tion given, and to what departments have the same
been distributed?
To render the subject as clear and distinct as
possible, he thought it would not be improper to
take an abstract view of those two powers in all
Oovernments having foreign re^tions which are
immediately connected with the inquiry, viz: the
LegiskHve and the Treaty-mokitu power. And
if gentlemen can ctearlv Sx in their mi^ds the
limits of each, they will beooiM better enabled to
;dbvG00gle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H>Ren,1796.]
Treaty vith Grtal Britain.
[H.OI
tee th«ir operalion, knd to decide oa the powers
t£ th« House in the exarcise of ihem.
The LceislaliTe power in aU Goveraments ia
extreiacif broadi it occupiea the most extensive
giound; it extends'io every object which relates
to [he inEemal coDcerns of tbe Datioo ; it legulalea
the life, the libertr, and the property of every indi-
vidoal living within its juriidiclioa ; it dan cen-
tral commerce within its jurisdiction ; govero tbe
conduct of tbe nation towards aliens, is whatever
cftpacity they may appear ; and, in short, as cer-
tiin Elnglish writers bave said of the British Go-
rerament. its power is almost omnipatent. Thus
broad ana extensive are the general powers of
legislation, subject, however, to such particular
ledrictioDS as are prescribed by torms of Govem-
meiit, or which Dccasioiially atise from the nature
of Govenuaeot itself, and limit tbe objects of its
operation.
It is easy to see, that in tbe exercise of thfie
Legislative powecs it will frequently happen that
laws are enacted, which, in titeir operation, will
embarrass the intercourse of two nations. Such
always tbe effect of retaliatiog^ laws, and aliens
bin the limits of a foreign jurisdiction are fre-
reasouable einl
The Trealy-mdung power operates in a very
different manner: its poweris limited and confined
to the forming of Treaties with foreign nations;
its objects are to facilitate the intercourse between
nations; to remove by contract, those impedi
which embarrass that intercourse, and to place the
nme oi»a fair and just fotmdatico. In the exer-
cise of this power, it will unavoidably happen that
the lawaof the Legislature are sometimes infract-
ed. The Legislature, for certain causes — perhaps
10 compel a foreign nation to form a Treaty ou
terms of reciivocity — may prohibit all intercourse,
or embarrass that intercourse with regulations so
burdensome as to produce the same effect: the
foreign nation Bually becomes wilting to treat, and
to establish an intercourse on equitable terms. If,
u this case, tbe Treaty power caqnoC touch tbe
laws of the Legislature, the object which gave
rise to those very laws can never be attained;
no Treaty can be farmed, because it will oppose
existing laws; thoee laws cannot be repealed, be-
cause tne object for which they were enacted has
not been attained. Such a construction of ibe
Treaty power would defeat every object for which
that power was establii^hed ; and instead of pos-
Msiing an authority to remove embarrassments '
* foreign intercourse, it caanot touch Ihem ; aou,
although expressly created for the attainment of
> iingle object, it can never attain it.
The principle might be elucidated by the fol-
lowing ease : Two nations wbo have no existing
Treaties with each other are induced by their re-
spective Liegishtnret to enact countervailing and
retaliating lBwa,and ultimately to carry these laws
to such an extent as to render all intercourse im-
inctieable: whatis tobedonel It will not do for
eiihet nation to repeal her laws, because Meilher
can b^in the measure. Tbe Treaty power can
alone interfere, and the two nations uust do that
by compact which never could have been done by
legislation. Mutual concessions must be made,
and the embarrassing restrictions of coublervail-
ing laws must be taken away by Treaty.
Another case maybe pot- down from a prihciple
the Constitution of the United State«.' The
Legislative power of this Government declares
war against a foreign oatioo ; the war proceeds
until every object is accomplished. How is this
war to be terminated? It will not do for tbe Le-
gislature to repeal the law which gave existence
to the war: such a measure would disarm the
nation, and leave the fronlierunptotected; and if
the Treaty power should interfere, lind obtain a
peace by n^otiation, such a measure would be
directly opposed to the law which created (be war ;
and if peace was established by Treaty, the law
which declared war would thereby be repealed.
He asked, a^in. what is to be done i Is the war to
be perpetual 1 Every gentleman in the Committee
would say that the war is not to be* perpetual, but
that the Treaty power is alone competent to put
an end to the war, by negotiation and b^ Treaty.
And yet it is apparent, that in tbe exercise of this
power, a Legislative aet is directly repealed.
From these considerations, he contended that,
in tbe exercise of that'power which related to the
intercourse with foreign nations, the Treaty-
making was paramount to the Legislative power ;
and that the positive instilutions oi the Legislature
must give place to compact.
On this construction a perfect harmony is in-
troduced into tbe departments of Government.
Both tbe Legislative and tbe Treaty power are
necessarjr, on many occasions, to accomplish the
same objects. The Legislative power to establish
regulations, or declare war, for the purpose of
compelling a nation to agree to a reasonable com-
pact ; and the Treaty power, when that nation is
compelled to ^ree to such reasonable compact.
to remove by Treaty those very regulations, ana
the war itself, on fair and equitable terms.
A' different construction would be productive of
endless confusion and disorder. As these powers
operate on the same objects, if the one is not sub-
ordinate to the other, they are thrown into the
same field, to combat for power ; and placed In a
state of perpetual war with each other.
And whr is not this construction right 1 What
evil or violation of principle ia to arise from it?
ite from the
All laws originate from the people. The laws
enacted by the Legislature are notning more than
the expression of their will. And shall not the
people have the power to annul, by one agent,
those laws, which they have established by other
agenul The bauds of the people are not tied)
the same right which gave them the power to
make statutes by a Legislature, gives them the
powerof repealing those statutes oy Treaty, when-
ever they find it useful so to repeal them.
These general remarks are not mnte to prOTe
any particular distribdtion of the powers of this
Government. They are made to evince that, from
the nature of things in ell Governments, tbe Trea-
ty power must, on certain subjects, be paramount
to the LegitlatiTe. It eannot be doubtad, but timt
;d by Google
HISTORY OF C0NGHES8.
7'naif vnik Great Britain.
the people h&Te b right to deposits their power
wherever thef please; but wherever the poytei
ia placed, it must possess all that authority which
is necessary to answer the objects for which it
The next inquiry will be, where hate thepeo-
pie of the United States, by their Constitnt""
placed these two powers i And where they
placed, there let them remain.
By recurring to the Constitulioo. this question
ia easily answered: The first article in the Con-
stitution declares, that the Legislative power there-
in granted, shall he rested ia a Coagreas. In other
parts of the Constitution, the particular objects of
the Legislative power are detailed: Coogress sbalt
have power to regulate commerce with foreign
nations ; to lay taxes; to declare war, &c. But
it is to be remarked, that thie power of regu-
latiitg commerce, &c., is a Legislative power, and,
of course, subject to all those cheeks and rcstric-
tiuD& which a Legislative power must experience
in all Governments, and which arise from the
tnre of thinga. The same Constitution declaim..
in words equally explicit, that tbe pKEetitENT shall
have power, with the conseut of the Senate, two-
thirds agreeing, to make Treaties ; and to leave no
doubt as to the effect of a Treaty then made, the
Constitution likewise declares, that all Treaties,
made under the authority of the United States,
shall be the kw of tbe land- He said that this
[tart of the subject did not admit of much elucida-
licm; it gave rise to one of those self-evident pro-
positions, which can only be obscured by reason-
ing. It was sufficient to say, that the people had.
by their Constitution, in express words, depositea
the Treaty power witu the Pbesident and Senate,
and as the'Honse did not sit to make a Constitu-
tion, but to execute one, it was of no consequence
whether the deposite was judicious, or otherwise.
Viewing (he question in these jMints of light,
he could not see any difBeulty in their solution.
The power of makiiu[ Treaties has been given to
the PHEainBHT and Senate. The Treaty in ques-
tion has been completed by those constituted au-
thorities; the faith of tbe nation is pledged. It
has become a law, and the House of Kepresenta-
tivee have nothing to do with it, but provide for
its execution.
It had been, however, said, that if this exten-
sive power is gireo to the PKEsioiH-r and Senate,
they may repeal half of the existing laws. Allow-
ing this to be the ease, what follows T This con-
•equnlce only results, that the people have clothed
tbe PREBIDBMT and Senate with a very important
power. But this power must be placed some-
where; no Treaty can be made without it; the
pcot^e have thought proper to place it there, and
the Honse must submit ; and it could be no ob-
jeetioD to a distribution of necessary powers, that
It miffht be altered. All power might be abused.
The Pbebviiit is intrusted with the execution
af the laws; he may abuse that power. The
Legislature have the power to lay unlimited tax-
es, and to create unnumbered <Aces; this power
may ba abiued. The people kaew this when they
five the power | bat they Ukewiae knew that the
was necessary, and that if no power was
to be given, because power might be abused, all
Oovemment was at an end.
In opposition to these opinions, a eentleman
from Pennsylvania [Mr. Gallatin] had said, that
a law could not repeal a Treaty, dot b Treaty re-
peal a law, and had assigned this reason fw it:
that no law could be repealed, but by consent rf
the parties to tbe law. Tbe reason is perfectly
JDst, and applies conclusively to the case of a
Treaty. But how does tbe reason apjdy to a M^
tutel Is the House of RcpKsentatives a partylo
a statute? He believed noL Tbe laws were the
laws of the people, and not the<laws of the Hoose
of Representatires. And shall not the people
who made the bws by one set of agents, repieal
them, if they please, by another ?
But it was said, laat there is a power given the
Legislature by tbe Constitution to check the Trea-
ty power ; he could not find that check in the
Constitution. The power of making Tteaties waa
complete, in the Prebident and Senate; and a
Treaty once made, is not only binding on the na-
tion, but becomes a law ; and althoogn the Legia-
lature may defeat the execution of a Treaty, as it
maf every other law, yet it can never release the
"ition from its obli^tioa.
It bad been likewise said, that the power of ap-
propriatiag money, giyen to the Legislature, se-
ated a check on the Treaty pow«, wherever mo-
ney was wanted to carry a Treaty into effect ; he
could not admit this doctrine. It had been aire*-
dy shown, that the discretion of the Legislature
certain cases limited in the bosiness of ap-
propriation. The compensatioD to the PiMiBEirr,
and the salary to tbe Judges, had been mentioned ;
and it could not be said that the Legislature pos-
sessed a broad discretion in these eases. The
Constitution declares, that these compensatioiia
shall be paid ; and yet tbey cannot be paid with-
out Legislative appropriation- It theiefore be-
comes the duty of the Legislaimre to make the ne-
cessary appropriations for those objects ; they are
bound to do it. Tbe obligation of the Legislature
to appropriate money is equally strong m every
case, where a debt becomes due, a contract is
made, or a lawis to be executed ; whether that debt,
contract, or law, arises fnta the Constitution it-
self, the taw ma'de in pursuance of it, or Treaties
made under its authority. It was Ae duty oftht
Legislature todo in all thoeecasee, what the same
gentleman from Pennsvlvania had said, on a form-
er occasion, on the suDwot of the Pedeiat City :
Tbey must execute the law, or repeal it ; fw they
could not refuse an apmopriatioD, because they
ay think tbe law a bad one.
The Legislature, with respect to apfwopriatHnj
might be eonsidered as Treasurers ra the Unitaa
States; ibey command tbe Treasury of the Unioo;
money could issue from its coffers withoni ax
appropriation. But this power waa not given, to
enable tbe Legislature to defeat the contracts of
fe, made by their authorised agents ; hot
them. It was true, that they must ex-
the claim, inqaire whether the debt waa
due, the coBlract regiilarly mada, or the kw n-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
HucB, 1796.]
TVeat^ with Grtat Briiain.
[B.OFR.
quired LwitUtiTe aid. When these hcU were
Bscertaioed, it became their duty and iheir biui-
aesa, to make the neeeaeary appropriations, pro-
rided momy could be obtained for the purpose.
This wa« a trust cummitied to the Legislature by
die people ; aikd if tbey did not execute it, they
vii^ted (he trust reposed in them.
But it bad been asserted^ that the British House
ofCommoQsezercise the right of examining Trea-
ties. But does it follow from thence, Ibat the
House of Represenlatires of the United States
hare the same power? Has Gireat Britain a simi-
lar CoDstitntioo? It was not pretended that she
had i her Constitution had been justly said to hare
been made op of usages. Of course, proving thai
the British Commons exercise this power, prores
nothing more than that such is the custom ui that
CioTernment. But if the Parliament of Great
Biib^Q was to pass a law. Testing this power ei'
clusively ID the King and House of Lords, would
the Commons then claim the right of ratifying
Treaties?
But still geiulemen ask, bare not the House as
much power as the British House o[ Commons 1
He would answer this question by saying, that the
House bad as much, and no more power, than the
Constitution had given it And if gentlemen re-
quired a farther answei, he would say, that the
L^slature of the United States did not possess
as extensive power as Ihe Parliamenl of Britain.
That body can change the Constitution, alter thi
religioa of the country, and, in shiMt its power ii
really omnipoleBt ; such unbounded powers an
not claimedliere. But whether the British House
of Commons have the power or no^ is a ^juestion
of no consequence ; the inquiry was iu>t into the
powers of British Parliaments, or Houses of Cmn-
monsgbut intolhepowersof that House, and those
powers were found only in the Coastilutioa.
The same gantleman from J'ennylrania said,
that, if the Treaty is a law, it must be carried into
effect. Heasked,why wasQottbisTreatyaiaw?
Ii is certainly a Treaty ; it had been made ; it had
been made nnder the authority of the United
States; baring been ratified bv the Pkbsidiht,
with the consent of two-thiros of the Senate.
What other requisite was wanting to make it a
law? Tl\e Constitution poinU out no other: it
therefore must be a law, and as a law, must be
carried into effect. The gentleman bad said, that
a law could not repeal a Treaty; andiftheHouse
could not repeal i^ why discuss it t It would be
doing what the people had not employeii thei-
todo.
Id the oovrse of the debate, the gentleman from
Penuylrania [Mi. GallatimJ had compared the
r' lions of those who oppoiied the resolution, to
nying of an Eaglisn Bishop, who had said,
"that the people had nothing to do with the law,
bat to obey it ;" and their conduct, to the servile
ebedieaee of a Parliament of Paris, under the old
order of things. Such remarks deserved no an-
*weT; he osxly wished to impress the teeoUeclitui
of tbem on the minds of gentlemen, that they
night remain a perpetnal monanaent of that gen.
If he had been right in the doctrines he had ad*
vanced, that the business of ratifying the Treaty
did not belong to the House, and that the Treaty
was in fact a law without Legislative sanctiMi,
then the resolve on the table was improper and
inexpedient, and ought not to pass.
Mr. Havens observed, that it appeared rather
unfortunate, that a great Constitutional q^uestioa
should be discussed on a proposition that expressed
no opinion relative to that subject; but as the
right of the House to request the PnEaioBNT t»
wpers before them that related to the subject
__ je Treaty, had been denied, on the Constitit-
tional grotmd, it appeared necessary to debate the
Constitutional question ; which, when stated in
as concise terms as poRsible, and yet so as to ex-
press it with clearness and precision, appeared to
be this: Is iberenotsuch an apparent interference
between the Treaty-making power, rested bj th»
Constitution in the Prbsidbnt and Senale, and
the Legislative power vested in Coogrecs, that it
becomes necessary to adopt such a principle of
constructioD as will give both these powers Aill
operation and effect, and that therefore it ought to
be concluded, that whenever any Treaty shall
contain any stipulation that may be comprehended
under the Legislative powers ofC<»igress, it ought
discussing this question it would be oecesiaif
tp make some preliminary observations on (he
nature of power generally, without reference to
any particular Constitution, that a better jud^
meni might be formed of the nature and extent
of the respective diEtiibutions of power contem-
piated in the Constitution of the United Stales.
Power, aiit relates to Goremment, has been con-
sidered to be of three kinds : Legislative, Execu-
tive, and JudiciaL It would, in ue course of this
discussion, be admitted, as he presumed, that it
would be a good definition of the Legialatire
power ID say, that it was a power to prescribe
rules that shall be binding on the community;
and that it would likewise be admitted that it wi«
a precise d^nition of the Execudve power to say,
that it was confined merely to the execution w
the laws; andibat the judicial power wasnotbing
more than the power of determining what the
law is; but, notwiihstanding these respective de-
finitions were sufficient to give a precise idea of
the nature of each of these respective species of
power, yet it must be acknowledged as an undoubt-
ed principle, that they do so shade into each othcs,
that it is impossible in many eases to draw any
line of distinction between them. The Executive
will, for instance, in many cases exercise a Legia-
lative power in the form itf discretion, or in act-
ing in cases where in fact the law is ^ent; and
in like manner the judicial is rather in its nature
Executive, as having united with it a powerto
execute the laws, and at the same time exercises
in a great measure Legislative powers nnder the
form of adjudications i hut of these three kinds ot
power, the Legislative must be the most extent
sire and iodeftnite, for being in its nature snpreme-
.d by Go Ogle
HISTOKT OF CONGRESS,
HofR.]
TVeoQf vUk Greai Britain.
[MtBCB, 1796.
it cannoi be Lmited in goiug into details. But
the bouadaries betweeo these respectire powers
are somewhat undefiaable, when coDiidered with-
out refereoce to any particular form of Govern-
ment, ibey are much more so when viewed as
they are intended to be distributed in the seTenl
forms of OoTernment or Constitutions now ezi:
iog in the world. He knew of no GoTernment
Constitution in which those three powers we
perfectly separated, unless it had been effected
the present Constitution of France, bat he doubted
whether it had been effected there in the aenae
that he understood it ; but if recourse were to be
had to the Constitutions in the United States,
should not find one in which these powers v
Bot in some measure blended amone the several
departments of the Government; this was the
case, at least so far as his knowledge on that sub-
ject extended. He had not seen one in which it
appeared to him that this was not the case. They
were certainly blended in the Gonslitution of the
United States : The first article of it determines
what branches of the Government shall i
the Legislative powers ; and the second
the Executive power; but, at the same time, tne
Chief Executive b rested by the first article with
a right to examine bills and object to them before
they are passed into laws ; this power could not
be pretended to be Executive in its nature; and
by the second article he is vested with the power
of making Treaties, with the consent of two-thirds
of the Senate; but this does not make this power
in its nature Executive, because thai when we
take into consideration the nature of this power,
we shall find that it is in fact Legislative ; for it
cornea precisely within the definition of Legisla-
tive power, as being a rule or law, binding on two
or more independent nations by their mutual con-
sent ; the idea of a contract is no further connected
with it than as it is necessary that two or more in-
depeodent nations should ask each other's consent
that this law should he binding on each of them.
Whetf, there/ore, this issaid to be a power founded
on conventions, compacts, or agreements, it does
■At follow that the power is not in its nature Le-
gislative; such worUsand phrases as these cannot
ulter the nature of the power; and when consi-
dered without reference to any particular Con
Btitution, it must be considered as unlimited in its
extent ; because any conceivable stipulation, whe-
ther of a Legislative. Executive, or Judicial na-
ture, may be comprenended under the form of a
Treaty or contract with a foreign nation, and
tiiereiore it must follow as a necessary conse-
quence evidently deducible from the indefinite ex-
tent of this powerj that there never can be any
Erecise boundary line marked out between what
as been usually called internal and external re-
lations. If the power of making Treaties as vested
by the Consticmion in the Pbesident and Senate,
is in any sense limited, it must be by other parts
of the Constitution than that in waicb it is ex-
pressly delected ; for it is there expressed with-
"■-t any limitation; and the only question
V. i_ L_. ..^. , .sisillin
n declares thA
all Legislative power therein granted shall be
vested in Congress, which shall consist of a Sen-
ate and House of Representatives; there is DO
reason can be assigned why these words, aii Lt-
gulative potoer in this clause, should not he con-
sidered in as unlimited a sense with respect to all
the objects of legislation specified in the Conslira-
tiou, as [he words Co make Treaties, in another
clause ; there must, therefore, he a manifest in-
consistency between these iVo powers, according
to the doctrine of those who contend, that a
Treaty ought to be considered as supreme law
without the assent of the House ef Represenla-
lives, because it would be the same thing as to
say, that no IJeeiaUlive power granted Dy the
Constitution could |>e exercised without the asaent
of the House of Representatives, and yet the Pre-
sident and Senate might exercise whatever Le-
gislative power (hey ihoughtp roper, without their
assent^ under the form of a Treaty. The univer-
sal principle of construction, that all parts of any
written law ought to be so construed as to be con-
sistent with itself, so far as the same may be prac-
ticable, ought therefore to be applied in this case ;
which can easily be done by supposing that it
must be a principle necessarily resulting from the
two clauses in the Constitution, that whenever
any Treaty shall contain any stipulations that
may be comprehended under (he Legislative
Sowergranted toCongrera,itoughtnot to^ cousi-
ered as law until it has received in some form
or other the assent of the House of Representa-
tives. He observed that it had been admitted by
those who were opposed to what be conceived to
be the Constitutional right of the House, that it
was necessary that the House should have some
agency in passing an appropriation law to carry
it into effect; ibis, he conceived, could only lie
necessary on their ground, because thai the Treaty
was unprovisional in that respect ; if it had con-
tained a cUuse stipulating that the necessary ap-
propriations should be made, it would, according
to iheir principle!, have been unnecessary to have
laid it before the House ; but at the same time
that they admitted this, they insisted (hat the
House had no discretion in the business, but that
they were bound by the Constitution to cany it
into effect, because that the Constitution lud said,
that Treaties made under the authority of tbe
United Slates, shonld be the supreme law of (he
land, any thing in the Constitution or laws of any
State to the contrary notwithstanding; and in
confirmation of their doctrine, they had compared
it to a case in which they suppose that the LeEia-
lature can, by the Constitution, exercise no dis-
cretion in determining whether it will make the
appropriations — that is. in the case for the support
of Government geDerally, or of some of its parti-
cular branches, as for instance the Judiciary. But
he could even suppose a case in which it might be
necessary to exercise some discretion about the
appropriation of moneys in the strongest case thai
had been stated ; as, for instance, it might be ne-
eessarr in some time of extraordinary danger or
difficulty, to apply the very moneys that would,
in an ordinary way, be applied to the support of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Harcb, 1700.]
TVtatywith Ortet Britain.
[H.0
OoTeTnmeni, to luch » purpose a» would pi
the impendiaK danger; but even adroitiiug that
Congress could exercise no discretion abontlegb-
laiinr in maDy eases ihat might be pointed out in
the ConstitutioD, it does not follow that they
would have no discretionarf power about legis-
lating in this particular case. Congress must be
supposed ^enerully to ha»« a disctettoaary power
to determiDe whether tbey will continue any ei
isting law in force, and consequently may exercisi
a discreiiqn in appropriating any moneys, if sji'
should be necessary, to carry.il into effect ; anii
besides, the question would still remain to be de^
lermined whether a Treaty containing Legisla-
tiTeTegulations ought not to receive the sanction
of (he House before it beeaibe the supreme law
of the land, in the sense in which that expression
in the CoDslitatidO ought to be understood. He
obKfved, that gentlemen bad not been sufficiently
explicit in determining in what sense Treaties
ought to be considered aa the supreme law of the
land i some appeared to consider Treaty law of
so transcendant a natare as alniost to form a part
of the Constitution itself; they appeared, how-
ever, at the jame limfij to admit, that if a Treaty
was contrary to the Constitution, it would, in that
respect, be null; they appeared, however, very
pneraltv to place it iua grade or sphere a little
below the Constitution, but far above any Con-
gressiooal law, so that no act of Congress could
touch or affect it — notwithstanding that the Con-
stitution ha-i declared the Congressional law shall
be the supreme law of the land as well as Treaty
law.
It appeared of j>reat importance to him in dis-
cussing the qaeslton, to determine whether there
did not necessarily exist in the Oovernment ~
the United Stales, power to break a Treaty
well a^ to make it; this was a power necessarily
inherent in all independent Oovernmenti, and it
was frequently necessary to exercise it. because
thai a Treaty being, in its nature nothing more
than B law, mutually binding on two or more in'
dependent Sorereignties by Ineir mutual consent,
it must follow as a consequence, that whenever
either of the parties do not, in the opinion of the
other, observe this law, then the parties entertt
ing this opinion will consider tDemselves as i
charged from the ubiigaiton of observing it __
their part ; and it was frequently the ease, that
there was no other practicable method of com-
Mlling an observance of a Treaty on one part,
but by a refusal to observe it on the other. It did
iMH appear to him, that in such a case, there was
vested in the Pbebident and Senate alone any
power to break a Treaty ; the Constitution was
wholly silent on that point ; it must therefore be
(Opposed to be vested in Congress as exercising
supreme Legislative power; and, therefore, it must
be concluded^ that an act of Congress contraven-
ing anj^ existing Treaty, would in effect repeal it ;
>nd this must be more evident when it is recol-
Ifcled. that acts of Congress are, by the Conatitu-
tion, declared to be the suprema law of the land
as well as Treaties.
Mr. H. said, he b»d not paid very gnat tttoi-
tion to precedents in considering the question un-
der consideration, because that he laid n down as
an incDDttovertible maxim, that neither of the
branches of the Qovernment could, rigbtfally or
constitutionally, divest itself of any powers by
precedent, or by a neglect lo Exercise those powers
that were granted to it by the Constitution; the
great danger that was generally to be apprehend-
ed from precedents was this ; that they might
make the Government different in practice from
what it was in theory or on papf r. He observed,
that it was a very rematkable circumstance, that
those who had been stigmatized by gentlemen as
disorganizers of the QoverDment, or as rebels
against the constituted authorities, should be very
strenuously contending for such a construction of
the Constitution of the United States as would
render all iis parts harmonious, and give them fall
operation and effect ; and that those wlio assumed
to themselves the peculiar style of being defenders
of the Constitution, and supporters of the Govern-
ment, should be contending for such a consti^e-
tion of the Constitution as must render it incon-
sistent, and which mnst have a tendency to trans-
fer the powers of the House of Representatives
over into the hands of the PREaiDSHT and Senate,
bj giving them an indefinite right to make laws
without the consent of the House, under the form
of Treaties. In order to avoid this inconsistency
it had been said, that so was the Constitution;
the will of the people had been expressed in that
way, and that therefore we ought to submit to it;
but such an assertion did not remove the difficulty,
or clear up the inconnsteney on the side of those
who brought it forward; because it wouldsiill re-
main to be determined what the people had said
when they expressed their will in the Constitor
lion, and whether they did not intend that a Trea-
ty containing Legislative regnlatious should re-
ceive the assent i^ the House of Representatives
before it was carried into effect It had been at-
tenipted to represent these powers as operating co-
ordinately ; but co-ordinate supreme powencould
not operate in any Govemment so as to be cou-
sistenl with themselves, and therefore this would
not remove the difficulty or clear up the incoi^
sistency that arose from their aoustractiou. It had
likewise been said, that we were not necessarily to
presume that these powers would be abused ; but,
m ezimining tlie principles of a ConstitutiMi we
ought not to reason from what will be done in the
exercise of power, but from what may be done. It
had likewise been asserted that the popular
branches of a Government were apt to assume
powers ; this did not appear to him to be generally
the case ; if recoarse were had to history or to the
experience of mankind, it would be found that
popular assemblies had been more frequently dis-
posed to render themselves subservient to the views
Testsof those whowere in power,aiid who
form a part of the body, but might not-
withstanding have a great influence over them as
individuals, than to assume unnecessary powers
:hemselves. This had been the ease for mauy
, irs in England j the popular braneh of the Go-
Temment in that connt^, had been ■nbterrient to
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
I. OF a.]
TVsary viih Great Britain.
the *iews of the Adminutntioi), and ibis was the
priDcipal ^Dse of all the miseTies that the natioo
now eadured. It had not been the case ia the
GoTenuaent of the United State*, uoce it bod
been established; it rather appeared from the laws
of CoDgress, that they had been at all times $uf-
ficieatly disposed to place large and iudefiniie
powers in the hands of the Administration under
the form of discretion. He said, that this was no
new gueuipn ; it had been agitated when the Con-
stitution of the llDited States was under coasid-
ermtion ; it was then said, that the power of mak-
ing Treaties vested in the Prebidbnt and Senate,
would be iQeonsistent with the Legislative powers
of Congress, nuless the House of RepreseDtaliTes
were to give their assent to Treaties as well as to
other laws, before they were carried into effect ;
bnt the people bad rather chosen to adopt the Coa-
■lituttoD, and to trust to time and experience to
procure ameadmeuts. than to reject it on account
of fhia or other objections; but he did not recollect
that he had ever beard the difficulty cleared up id
any other manner than by supposiog. that the
House of Representatives ought, in some mode or
other, to give tbeil assent to Treaties, as well as to
other laws. He concluded with observing, that
he tbousbt be bad clearly shown thai, on one
ground, tnere would be an inconsistency between
the Legislative power vested in Congre<s, and the
power of jnaking Treaties rested in the Pbebi-
DENT and Senate ; and that, on the other cround,
they would be p«rfectly reconcilable, aad ul parts
of Hke' Constitution would have full operation and
«fiMt ; and he therefore tboughi it was his duty
to adopt this principle of construction ; he there-
fore supposed there could be no good objeciioo to
.the proposition under the consideration of the
House, on the ground of the Constitu clonal right
of the House to determine whuher they would,
Of would not, carry a Treaty into effect.
Mr. Madison said, that the direct proposition
befoK the House, bad been so absorbed by the in-
cidental question which had grown oal of it, con-
cerning the CoDslicutioDal authority of Congress
IR the case of Treaties, that he should confine his
present observations to the latter.
On some points, there could be no difference of
(^nnion; and these need not, consequently^ any
ducHMion. All are agreed that the sovereignty
resides in the people. That the Constitution, as
the expression of their will is the guide and the
rule to the Government; that the distribution of
tbe powers made by the Conalituiion ought to be
saeredlv observed by the respective departments.
That tne House of Representatives ought to be
«quaUjr careful to avoid encraacbments on the
authority given to the other departments, and to
guard their own authority against encroach meats
iroin the other departments. These principles are
as evident as they are vital and essential to our
political system.
The true question, thetefore, before the Cmd-
mittee, was, not whether the will of tbe peo-
ple expressed in the Constitution was to be
obeyed, but bow that will was to be understood;
in what manner it had actually divided the pow-
delegated to tbe Oovemment ; and what con-
ictioo would best reconcile the several parts of
the instrument with each other, and be most cou-
nt with iis general spirit and object.
1 comparing the several passages in the Con-
stitution, which had been tuready cited to the
" jmmittee, it appeared, that if taken literally, aad
ithout limit, they must necessarily clash with
each other. Certain powers to regulate commerce,
to declare war, to raise armies^ to borrow money,
&c., are first specially vested m Congress. The
power of making. Treaties, which may relate to
the same subjects, is afterwatde vested in the Fu-
sioBifr and two-tbiids of the Senate; and it is
declared in another place, that the Constiuition
and the Laws of ibe United States, made in pur-
suance thereof, and Treaties made, or to be made
under tbe autbority of tbe United Stales, shall be
the supreme law of the land. And the Judges, in
every State, ^all be bound thereby, any thtng in
the Con&titution or laws of any State to the coo-
trary notwithstanding.
The term niprenu, as a^^ied to Treaties, evi-
dently meant a supremacy over tbe Slate Con-
stitutions ftsd laws, and not over the Coustitulion
and Laws of the United States. And it was obser-
vable, that the indicial authority, aud the eusiii^
laws, alone of the Stales, fell within the suprema-
cy expressly enjoined. The injunction was not
exlenaedto tbe Legislativeaulborityof the Slates,
or to laws requisite to be passed by the States for
giving effect to Treaties ; and it might be a problem
worthy of the. consideration, though not needmg
the decision of the Committee, in what manner
the requisite provisions were to be obtained from
the States.
It was to be regretted, he observed, that on a
question of such magnitude as tbe present, there
snould be any apparent inconsistency or inexpli-
eriness in the Conititution, that could leave room
for different constructions. As the ease, however,
had happened, all that could be done was to ex-
amine the different constructions with accuracy
and fairness, according to the rules established
therefor, and to adhere to that which should be
found most rational, consistent, and satisfactory.
He stated the five following, as all the consttoe-
tions, worthy of notice, that had either been con-
tended for, or were likely lo occur :
I. The Treaty power and the Congressional
power, might be r^arded as moving in such sepa-
rate orbits, and operating on such separate objects,
as to be incapable of interfering with, or touching
each other.
II. As concurrent powers relating to the same
objects ; and operating like the power of Congress,
and the power of the State Lenislatures, in rela-
tion to taxes, on the same articles.
III. As each of tbem supreme over the other,
as it may be the last exercised; like the different
assemblies of the people, under the Roman Go-
vernment, in the form of centuries, and in the form
IV. The Treaty power may be viewed, accord-
ing to the doctrine maintained by the opponents
of the piopo«ition before the Committee, as both
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGREtsS.
Mabch, I79&]
Treaty vnih Greai Britain.
[H.ofR.
UQlimiEed in its object*, and completet; paramount
ia its authority. .
V. The CoD^e^ioual power may be viewed
co-operative with the Treaty 4)0 wer, on the Le-
S'slative subjects submitted lo Coneres^ by the
aiistituliuD,iu the manner explained Dy the n
ber from PemisylvBDia [Mr. Oillatih] an(
emplified ia the British GorernmeDL
The objection to the first ccmstruction is, tbat it
would narrow too much the Treaty power, to ex-
clude from Treaties alti^ether the eunuieTaied
Nibjects submitted to the power of Congress ; eome
01 oiher of this class of tegdation.H being generally
comprised in the important compacts which take
place between nations.
The objection to the second is, that a concurreni
eiercise ofthe Treaty aad Legislative powers, on
tbe same objects, would be evidently impractica-
ble. In the case of taxes laid both by Congress
aod fay the State Legislatures on the ^me articles,
the CoQstitutipn presumed, that the cencurrenl
aalhorities might t^ exercised with such prudence
and moderation as would avoid an interference be-
tween their respective reguTations. But it was
manifest that such an interference would be un-
avoidable between the Treaty power and the
power of Congress. A Treaty of Oomnieice, for
~~~mple, wiHild rarely be made, that would not
s, as well as b
trench on existing legal reguli
a bar to future ones.
To the third, the objection was equally fatal.
That it involved ibe absurdity of an inipcn'um in
imperia, of iwo-powets, both of them supreme,
yet each of them liable to be superseded by the
other. There was, indeed, an instance of this
kind found in the Government of ancient Rome,
where the two authorities ofthe comiMa curiaia,
or meetings by centuries, aod the comilia tributa,
ot meeiiogs by tribes, were each possessed of the
nipreme Legislative power, aod could each an-
Diil the piocecdings ofthe other. For, although
the people composed the body ofthe meetings m
both cases, yet, as they voted in ooe, according to
wealth, and in the other, according to numbers,
the organizations weie so distinct as to create, in
fact, two distinct authorities. But it was not ne-
cessary to dwell on ihu political phenomenon,
which had been celebrated as a subject of curious
speculation only, and not aa a model fot the insti-
tutions of any other country.
The fourth construction, is that which is con-
tended for by the opponents of the proposition de-
peDiIing} and wbicn gives to the Treaty power
all the latitude which la not necessarily prohibit-
ed by a regard to the general form and funda-
mental principles of the Constitution.
Id order to smooth the way for this doctrine, it
bad been said, that the power to make Treaties
was laid down in the most indefinite terms ; and
that the power to make laws, was no limitation
to it, because the two powers were essentially dif-
ferent in their nature. If there was ingenuity in
this distinction, it was all the merit it could have;
for it must be obvious that it could neither be re-
duced lo practice, nor be reconciled to prinoinles.
Treaties and laws, whatever the nature of them
4th CoH.— 17
may be, must, in theii operation, be^ i^en the
same. Regulations by Treaty, if carried into ef-
fect, are laws. If Congress pass acts relating lo
provisions in a Treaty, so as to become incorpo-
rated with the Treaty, they are not the less laws
on that account. A Legislative act is the same
whether performed by this or thai body, or whe-
ther It be grounded on the consideration, that m
foreign nation agiees lo pass a like act, or on any
other consideration.
It must be objected lo this construction, there-
fore, that it extends the «ower of the PaEsinENT
and Senate too far, and cramps the powers of
Congress too ranch.
He did not admit that the term '' Treaty" had
tbp extensive and unlimited meanina which some
seemed to claim for it. It was to oe considered
as a technical term, and its meaning was to be
sought for in the use of it^ particularly in Govern-
ments which bore most analogy to our own. In
absolute Governments, where ine whole power of
the nation i^ usurped by the Government, and all
the departments of power are united in itie same
person, the Treaty power has no bounds ; because
the power of the sovereign to execute it has none.
In limited GovernmentB, the case is different; the
Treaty power, if undeSned, ia not understood to
be unlimited. In Great Britain, it is positively
restrained on the subjects of money and dismem-
bering the empire. Nor could the Executive
there, if bis recollection was right, make an alien
a subject by means of a Treatv.
But the question immediately under consider-
ation, and which the context and spirit of the
Constitution must decide, turned on the extent of
the Treaty power in relation to the objects i<pe-
ciQcally and expressly submitted to the Legislative
Dwer of Congress.
It was an important, and appeared to him to be
decisive, view of the subject, thai if the Treaty
power alone could perform any one act for whicu
authority of that part of the Government i:
quired. Congresu have power to regulate trade,
to declare war, to raise armies, to levy, to bor-
row, and appropriate money, itc. If, by Treaty,
therefore, as paramountto the Legialative power,
the PnEBiDEN-r aod Senate can regulate trade,
they can also declare war, they can raise armiea
to carry on war, and they can procnre money to
support armies. These powers, however dilfer-
ent in their nature or importance, are on the
same footing in the Constitution, and must share
the same late. A member from Connecticut
[Mr. GRiBWOLn|| had admitted that the pov/er of
war was exclusively vested in Congress^ but he
had not attempted, nor did it seem possible, to
draw any line between that and the other enume-
rated powers. If any line could be drawn, it ought
to be presented to the Committee ; and he should,
for one, be ready to give it the most impaitiai
consideratioD. He had not, however, any expect-
ation that such an attempt could succeed; and,
therefore, should submit to the serioui confidera-
tion of the Committee, that, although the Consti-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
TVeaiy with Qreat Brilain.
[M«BCH, 17S6.
tation had carefully and jealously lodged the
power of TSfj of armieSj of the pnrse, &c., is Con-
a, of which the immediate Represen la tires of
Q the other side,
the Pbebideht and Senate, by means of a Treaty
of Alliance irith a oation at war, migiht make the
United States parties in the war. They might
stipulate subsidies, and eveD borrow money to
pay'Ihem; they might furnish troops to be car-
ried to £uiope, Asia, or Africa ; they might even
attempt to keep up a Standing Army ia time of
peaee, for the purpose of co-operating, on given
contingencies, with an ally, for matual safety, or
other common objects. Under this aspect, the
Treaty power would be tremendous indeed.
The force of this reasoning is not obriated by
saying, that the PBEStDBiirT and Senate would
only pledge the public faith, and that the agency
of Congress would be liecessary to carry it into
operation. For, what difference does this make,
if the obligation imposed be, as is alleged, a Con-
stitutional one ; if Congress hare no will but to
obey, and if to disobey be treason and rebellion
a^insl the constituted authorities 7 Undera Con-
stitutional obligation with such sanctions to it,
Congress, in case the President and Sedate
should ester into an alliance for war, would be
nothing more than the mere heralds fo.r proclaiia-
iag it. In fact, it had been said, that tney must
obey the injunctions of a Treaty, as implicitly as
a subordinate officer, in the Executive line, was
bound to obey the Chief Magistrate; or as the
Judges are bound to decide according to the laws.
As a further objection to the doctrine contended
for, he called the attention of the Committee to
another very serious consequence from it. The
s[>eei&c poVers, as vested in Congress by the Con-
stitution, are qualified by sundry exceptions,
deemed of great importance to the safe exercise
of them. These restrictions are contained in sec-
lion 9 of the Constitution, and in the articles of
amendment which have been added to it. Thus,
" the migration or importation of such persons as
any of the States shall think proper to admit,
shall not be prohibited by Congress." He refer-
red to several of the other restrictive paragraphs
which followed, particularly the 5th, which says,
that no tax shall be laid on exports, no preference
given to ports of one State over those of another,
ic. It was Congress, also, he observed, which
was to make no law respecting an establishment
df Religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there-
of, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press; or of the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, &c. Now, if the Legislative powers,
specifically vested in Congress, are to he no limit-
ation jyx check to the Treaty power, it was evi-
dent that the .exceptions to those powers, could
be no limitation or check to the Treaty power.
Returning to the powers particularly lodged in
Congress, he took notice of those relating to war,
and money, or the sword and the purse, as requir-
ing a few additional observations, in order to
show that the Treaty power could not be para-
It was well known that, with respect to the
regulation of commerce, it liad long remained un-
der the jurisdiction of tne States ; and that in the
establishment of the present Government the
question was, whether, and how far, it should be
transferred to the general jurisdiction. But with
respect to the power of making war, it had, from
the commencemeDl of the Revolution, been judg-
ed and exercised as a branch of the general autho-
rity, essential to the public safety. The only
question, therefore, that could arise, was whether
the power should be lodged in this or that depart-
ment of the Federal Government. And we find
it expressly vested in the L^islative, and not in
' '"~" department; with i
be apprehended, from nlaciiig the power <
ing war in those hands which would conduct it
when declared ; and which, therefore, in the or-
dinary course of things, would be most tempted
to go into war. Bnt, according to the doctrine
now maintained, the United States, by means of
an alliance with a foreign Power, might be driven
into a state of war by the PaEsiOEnT and Senate,
contrary both to a sense of the Legislature, and
to the letter and spirit of the Constitution.
On the subject, also, of appropriating money. '
particularly to a military establisnment, the pro-
Tision of the Constitution demanded the most se-
vere attention. To prevent the continuance of a
military force for a longer term than might be in-
dispensable, it is expressly declared, that no appro-
priation fbr the support of armies !<hall be made for
more than two years. So that, at the end of every
two years, the question, whether a military force
ought to be continued or not, must be open for
consideration; and can be decided in the nega-
tive, by either the House of Representatives or
the Senate's refusing to concur in the requisite
appropriations. This is a most important check
and security against the dan^r of^standing ar-
mies, and against the prosecutton of a war bt^ond
its rational objects; and the efficacy of the pre-
caution is the greater, as, at the end of every two
years a re-election of the House of Representa-
tives gives the people an opportunity of judging on
the occasion for themselves. But if, as is con-
tended, the House of Represenladres have no
right to deliberate on appropriations pledged by
the PREBtnGNT and Senate, and cannot refuse
them, without a breach of the Constitution and
of their oaths, the case is precisely the ^me, and
the same effects would follow, as if the appropria-
tion were not limited to two years, hut made for
the whole period contemplated, at once. Where
would be tne check of a luennial appropriation for
a military establishment raised for four years, if,
at the end of two years, the appropriation was to
be continued by a Constitutional necessity for two
years morel It is evident that no real difference
can exist between an appropriation for four years
at once, and two appropriations for two years
each, the aecond of which, the two Houses would
be constitutionally obliged to make.
It had been said that, in all cases, a law must
either be repealed, or its execation pfbvided for.
.dbyGoogle
493
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS:
Mauch, 1796.]
TVeofy with Great Britain.
[H.=
Whatvrei res^t might be due to this piincipte in
ffeneral, he dented that it could be applicable to
tbe case in question. By the provisioii of the
CoDBiitutioo, timiiiog appropriations to two years,
il tnf clearly iateuded to poable either branch of
the Leeiilature to discontinue a miLitaiy force at
tbe end of every two years. If the law establish-
ing it must be neeessaiilr repealed before an ap-
propriation could be witbhelil, it would be io the
power of either branch to keep up an establish'
ment by refusing to concur in repeal. The con-
itniction atid reasoning, therefore, opposed to the
tights of tbe House, would evidently defeat an
essentialpro vision of the Constitution.
Tbe Constitution of the United States is a
CoDstituiiou of limitations and checks. The
r the purposes
two great
classes. Ooe of these formed flie Slate Govern-
ments ; the other, the Federal Government. The
powers of the Government had been fuTlher di'
vided into three great depailmeots ; and the !.«-
^slative department again subdivided into two
mdependent branches. Around each of these
portions of power were seen also exceptions and
qualifications, as additional guards against the
abuses to which power is liab^. With a viei '
this policy of the Constitulion, it could not be
reasonable, if the clauses under discussion were
lliQUght doubtful, to lean towards a con
that would limit and control the Treaty -ma king
power, n'Mhcr thait towards one that would [nak<
It omnipoteut.
He came neit lo the 6ftb construction, which
left with the Pbbsident and Senate tbe power of
making Treaties, but required at (he same ti
the Legislative sanction and co Dperatioo,
those cases where the Constitution had given
press and specific powers to the Legislature.
wu to be presumed, that in all !<uch cases the
Legislature would exercise its anlliuriiy with dis-
cretion, allowing due weight to the reasons which
l«d lo the Treaty, and to the circumstances of the
ezisteace of the Treaty. Still, however, this
House, in its Legislative capacity, must exercise
its reason; it must deliberate; for deliberation is
implied in legislation. If it must carry all Trea-
ties into effect, it would no longer exercise a Le-
gislative powet ; it would be the mere instru-
ment of the will of another department, and
would have no will of its own. Where the Con-
specific and peremptory in-
n Congress to do a particular act, Con-
t, of course, do the act, because the Con-
lon, which is paramount over all the depart-
menu, has expressly taken away the Legislative
discretion of Congress. The ca^e is essentially
diflereni wKere Ibe act of one department of
Govetnmeat inierferes with a power expressly
vested in another, and no where expressly taken
away : here the latter power must be exercised
according to its nature ; and if it be a Legislative
powetj it must be exercised with that deliberation
and discretion which is e5sential to the nature of
Legislative power-
is said, yenterdar, that • Treaty w&a para-
mount (o all other acts of Government, because
all power resided in the people; and the Pbbsi-
dent and Senate, in making a Treaty, being the
Constitutional organs of the people for that pur-
pose, a Treaty, when made, was the act of the
people. The argument was as strong the other
way. Congress are as much thei organs of the
people, in making laws, as tbe Prebidemt and
Senate can be in making Treaties; and laws,
when made, are as much the acts of the people,
any acts whatever can be.
Il had been objected, that the Treaty power
would he in fact frustrated, if Treaties were to
depend, in any degree, on tde Legislature. He
thought there was no such danger. The seveisl
ivers vested in tbe several depeitments, form
: one Government; and the will of the nation
y be expressed through ooe Government, oper-
ating under certain checks on the subject of
Treaties, as well as under other checks on other
subjects. The objection would have weight, if
the voluntary eo-operalion of the different States
was to be obtained.
Another objection was, that no Treaty could
be made at all, if the agency of Congress were to
coDCur ; because Congress could not treat, and
their agency would not be of a Treaty nature. He
would not stop lo inquire how far a loan of money
from a foreign Government, under a law of Con-
gress, was or was not of the nature of a public
contract or Treaty. It was more j)roper to ob-
serve, [hat tbe practice in Great Britam was an
evidence that a Legislative af^ncy did not vitiate
a Treaty. Nay, if the objecnon were solid, it was
evident that the Treaty lately entered into with
that nation, could never be binding on this; be-
cause it had been bid before the Parliament for
its Legislative agency, as necessary to effectuate
the Treaty : and if that agency was to vitiate
and destroy the nature of the Treaty on that side,
the obligation, on thu principle of all contracts,
would be dissolved on both sides.
He did not see the utility in this case of urging,
as had been done, a particular distrust of the
House of Representatives. He thought the Pres-
iDBiiT and Senate would be as like.
bad Treaty, as this branch of the Governmefit
jUDCttOD oi
elyto
I the way of a
wonld be to throw obstructions ii
good one, after it was made.
No construction mif hi be perfectly free from
difficulties; that which he had espoused was sub-
ject to the least, as it gave signification to every
part of the Constitution; was most consistent
with its general spirit, and was moiit likely, in
piactice, to promote the great object of it, the
public good. The construction which made the
Treaty power in a manner omnipoteotj he thought
utterly inadmissible in a Constitution marked
throughout with limitations and checks.
He should not enter any further into the sub-
ject. It had been brought. before the House rather
earlier than he had expected, or than was perhaps
necessary ; and his observations, therefore, might
not have been as full, or as well digested, as ^hey
ought to have been, ^nch as ihey wer^ he tarn-
;dbvG00gle
mSTOBY OF CONGRESS.
.fR.]
Treaty wUh Qrtat Britain.
[Mabch, 1796-
mitted them to the candid attention of the Com-
mit tM.
Mr. W. SuiTB (of South Carolioa) saiB, be
would not at that time go into an f iteosive re-
view of the arguments of the gentleman from
VirginiBj [Mr. Madisoh.I but would only
■ome pomts which he had dwelt on. Before he
' went into a consideration of the subject, he would
call the attention of the Comniittee to the true
question now before them; for though it was ori-
ginally only a call for papers, it had now assumed
a very important shape, and wax nothing less
than this, Whether that House had a concurrent
power with the FaEaiDBNT and Senate in roakiDB
Treaties7 The Kenlleman last up had followed
others in referring to the practice under the Bri-
dah Constitution; but bad concluded his remarks
on that argument with allowing, that, after all,
our own Constitution must be our sole guide.
He heartily joined in that sentiment, and was
aatisfied that (he merits of the question should
be tested by that alone. Id order to show that
the Treaty power was solely delegated to the
Pbebident and Senate by the Constitution, Mr.
S. said, he should not confine himseU to a mere
recital of the words, but he should appeal to the
fMDeral sense of the whole nation at the time the
Constitution was formed, before any Treaty was
made under it, which could^ by exciting passion
and discontenr, warp the mmd from a just and
natural construction of the Constitution. By re-
ferring to tbe contemporaneous expositions of
that instrument, when the subject was viewed
only in relation to the abstract power, and not to
a particular Treaty, we shoulJ come at the truth.
He would then confidently appeal to the opinions
of those who, when the Constitution was promul-
^ted, were alarmed at the Treaty power, because
It was by the Constitution rested in the Presi-
dent and Senate, and to its advocates, who vindi-
cated it by proving that the power was safely de-
posited with these branches of the Government.
The discussions which took place at the time of
its adoption by the Convention of the several
States, proved, beyond a doubt that the full ex-
tent of the power was then well understood, aed
thought hy those who approved of the C<mstitu-
tion to be suBiciently guarded. He would farther
appeal to the amendments which had been pro-
pbied by the diacontented. The Convention of
Virginia had proposed an amendment, which of
itself overturned all the reasonings of the gentle-
tnmn. It was, ■- that no commercial Treaty should
be valid, unless ntiiBed by (wo-thirds of all tbe
Senators." This was the only check which that
State required, and was a conclusive evidence of
their opinliMis: bad that State conceived thai tbi
check which is now contended for existed in tht
Constitution, they could not have been guilty of
such an absurdity as (he amendment would in-
volve. All the possible dangers which might en-
sue from the unlimited nature of the Treaty
power were well considered before tbe Couf litu-
lion was adopted, and Virginia required no fur-
ther check than the one above rrciled. All.
therefore, that (hey required had, in the present
case, been done, for the Treaty wu ratified hj
two'tbirds of all the Senators.
Mr. S. said, he could refer to many farther
proofs derived from a similar source. He would
not, however, fatigue the Committee at this time
with reading them. He would only recal the re-
collection of some gentlemen present to the pro-
test of the Pennsylvania minority, where the
ideas and amendments were contained, and
e proceedings of a meeting at Harriabu^,
which the gentleman from Pennsylvania njG.
Gallatin] must well remember (having been
— of the meeting) where, after stating objee-
i to the extensive powers delegated by the
Constitution, the following amendment was pr[>-
posed. as hecessarr to limif and restrain the pow^
;rsr ''Provided always, that no Treaty which
:hatl hereafter be made, shall be deemed or con-
strued to alter or affect any law of the United
States, or of any particular State, until such
Treaty shall have been laid before and assented
to by the House of Representatives in Congress."
This amendment was the most satisfactory evi-
dence that the proposers of it did then believe
that, without thatamendment,snch Treaty wonld
be valid and binding, although not assented to by
Ihis House, and that they had, at that day, flO idea
thai there existed in the Constiti^iion the check
which is now discovered by this ea^pofl J^icto
construction.
Having stated the general opinion of the pub-
lic, as manifested by the friends as well as the
enemies of the Constitution, Mr. S. said he would
Eroceed to show that (he practice of Congress
ad, from the commencement of its existence,
been conf6rmabIe to that opinion. Several Trea-
ties had been concluded with Indian tribes nnder
tbe present Constitution. These Treaties em-
braced all the points which were now made a
subject of contest — settlement of boundaries,
grants of money, Ac.; when ratified fay tbe Prbb-^
inEKT and Senate, they had been proclaimed by
tbe Executive as the kw of the land ; they had
not even been communicated to the House ; but
the HoDse, considering them as laws, had made
the appropriations as matters of course, and as
they did in respect to other laws. The Treaties
were never discussed, but the requisite suras, as
ported in the annual estimates, were included,
; matters of course, in the general mass of mo-
neys voted for the War Establishment in the item
of Indian department. It was not pretended that
the Constitution made any distinction between
Treaties with foreign nations and Indian tribes ;
and the clause of tSe Constitution which gives to
Congress the power of regulating commerce with
foreign nations, and on which the modern doc-
trine is founded, includes as well Indian tribes as
foreign nations.
That this Houseconsidered a Treaty, when rati-
fied by the Phebibent and Senate, as the law of
the land, was further evident from a resolve of the
House, of the 4th of June, 1790, in these words :
Raohed, thUaU Treaties mad^oiwhidi shall b*
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Tnaty vil^ Gnat BrUain.
[H.c
Bude and promujged under the Bulhori^ of the United
Slatea, riu& from liilM to time be published >nd annez-
cid to their codaof Uwb, l^ the SMretu; of State."
la consequence of this rewluiioQ, the several
Secretaries of Stale had aniiexed the Treaties
which had been made, to the code of lavs, as
soon «a they were ratiBed by the Pkebident and
Seoftte, and promulged by the Pbgsident.
Mr. S. then drew the attention of the Commit-
tee to the rarious applications to the Prgbidgnt
last Bummer,, requesting him to withhold hia
aigoBture from the Treaty, aU of which proceeded
OD the idea (aod the geaerally received ideti
tfaroDigboiit the Union) t^t the Treaty would be
the law of the land, as soon ai sanctioned by the
Pbebident. Was the lansuagfe, then, that this
House might interfere and defeat the Treaty?
No, th« language then w«s, " We look up to the
Prisident alone for preservation from the fatal
instrument ; if he signs it, nothing can save us
from it hut war — we are left without reaource."
The idea of applying to this House was never
dreamt of ; it was an after-thought, devised by the
ingeoious subtlety of the few, and considered al-
most universally as a desperate attempt. In the
language of the New YorV meeting, the proceed-
ings of which were drawn up by men supposed to
nndentand the Constitution, the Treaty-making
power is called alli^ether an Executive power;
they did not then suppose tbat this House could
at all interfere. To come still nearer to the pre-
sent period, Mr. 8. referred to the late act of Vir-
ginia, proposing an alteration to ihe Constitution
on this subject. This amendment was a conclu-
■ive proof that the Legislature of that Stale did
not conceive that this House possessed any power
in relation to Treaties, for it expressly proposes to
change the existing Oonslitation, by vesting such
a power in this House. The fote of that amend-
ment was deraoastialion no less conclusive, that
the public sentimeot was opposed to such a change;
for m every Legislature in which that amendment
had been discussed, notwiilistauding the preju-
dices excited against the Treaty, it had been re-
jected ; and the arguments which had appeared
on those occasions, show the ideas of the several
Legislatures to have been, that the Pbebident and
Senate now posaesa encluslvely the Treaty power;
those in favor of the amendment having advo-
cated it, on the ground that it was dangerous to
leave such power with those two branches alone;
and those against it having opposed it on the
Sound that Ihe power was properly and safely
Iged, and that this House was illy qualified to
participate in a power of that nature-
Mr. S. repeated his former asurtioo, that there
were cases where that House had not the right of
It altogether ; and so, individuals had the pow-
er of resistin^f the laws. Oenllemen had said, thai
if this doclnne prevailed, the House would lo9<
its capacity of judging. He denied it; they would
still retain, in suen eases, a discretion, guided by
morality, good faith, and the Constitution ; the
members were as much bound by the laws in
Legislative, as in their individual capacity }
existing law (or Treaty, which was a law
of the highest ' nature) prescribed a certain duty,
they were bound to perform it, and their discre-
could only be called in to regulate the mode
circumstances oT discharging that duty ; it
d not be a matterof discretion whether or not
they should perform that duty. Thus, unless they
intended to arrest the operations of Government,
their discretion could not be requisite to determine
whether they should appropriate the moneys ne-
cessary for its support; but out of what fund, and
when tlie moneys sball be paid, and other matters
of detail. So, when a Treatv was concluded, and
became a compact binding tne nation, the discre-
of the House (unless it was intended to vio-
our taith) could Dot determine whether the
eys contracted for should be psiiii but 4he
e, the fund, and such questions of detail, would
alone be considered. The distinction, which was
obvious one, between power and right, had
been attended to. The House had certainly
Ihe power to do many things which thev had not
ibe right to do ; they had the power to ao wrong,
but they certainly had not the right to do wrong;
and whether the wrong was committed by acting
where they ought not to act, or refusinK to act
where they ought, was immaterial; botli were
■qually reprehensible. It had been boldly said,
that there was no case which could possibly come
before them, where Ihey would not be at liberty to
answer aye or no : he would produce a case — by
the Constitution, on the application of a certain '
number of States, wishing for amendments, Con-
gress must call a Convention; where is this IxMst-
ed discretion, of which so much has been said t
" Id the House, in this case, eiercise its discre-
, whether or no a Cunventi'on should be called?
Why not 7 Because the Constitution says it must
call a Convention : and does not the Constituticm
say, " Treaties made by the PREatDENT and Senate
are laws, and that laws must be obeyed?" The
ne injunctions of the Constitution are imposed
both cases; and as in the first, all this House
lid do, would be to regulate the time and place
of holding the Convention, so, in the latter, their
'- - ■ would belimitedtothe mode.andfUDd^
and other details. The g
n had mentioned
the article in the Constitution respecting appro-
military services — they were to be
years; this article proved itself tbat
appropriations might be unlimited in every other
case. When a Military Establishment was insti-
tuted, it was known that an appropriation law foi
that purpose could not be in force more than two
years; no inconveniences, then, could result. But
there was no such limitation in respect to any
other branch of expenditure ; from custom, appro-
priations for the support of Government were an-
nual; appropriations even for pensions were annu-
al, and yet no one doubted that, as the pension
was a contract, the appropriation for it was al-
ways a thing of course ; no discretion could be '
exercised, in respect to the payment, without a
breach of faith.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. opR. I
Treaty leith Great Britain.
[M..
The geatteBum from VirgiDia had said, that this
House might repeal a law by withholding the ne-
cessary appropriation. But this was a new doc-
liiDc; he had always understood it to be a funda-
mental principle in iegisklioa, that it requires the
same power to repeara law, as to make one ; '
say thai one branch could, by refusing to act,
peal a law which bad leceived the sanction of the
three, was a solecism in Qovernment j as well
might it be said, that the refusal of an officer
execute, Di of a citizen to obey, a law, would
be a repeal of such law. Much iiad been said of
the power of this House, in, origioatins money
bills } this House alone, it was true, could, by the
Constitution, originate bills for raising revenue,
but the Senate could originate bills for appropri-
ating money ; the pecessarj' appropriations for
cavying the Treaty into effect may originate iu
the Senate as well as in this House ; the Senate
may alter or reject any approjirialion bill which
does not contain such appropriations as they may
deem necessary for the public service. Prom the
obbeiTations of some gentlemen, it would be sup-
. posed thai this House bad a general censorship
over all the other parts of the Goveinnientj and
u) excluaire control over all their proceedings;
bat this control was reciprocal ; this House was
only a part of the L^islatiTe power, and jrassessed
none of the EzecutiTe. In Great Britain, the
House of Lords could not alter in the least any
hill, ewen for appropriating moneysj he could not
•ee witb what view the practice of that country
. had been resorted to, for there was not the small-
est analogy between the two countries in this re-
spect A gentleman had said, that we might re-
peal a Treaty by law; hut other gentlemen on
that side of the question had been o[ a contrary
opinion : the fact was, that a Treaty could only
be annulled by the consent of the contractinic par-
ties, by a breach of faith, or by war. It bad been
admitted, that the Phebident was justifiable in
issuing his proclamatipn respecting the Treaty,
because a part of the Treaty was biudine ; but
what that part was, gentlemen had not^een pleased
to designate; tbecitizenswere,therefore, left to dis-
obey it at their peril; the Prebident had made no
such distinction ; he had proclaimed the whole
instrument as a binding compact ; the public are
now, however, told, that a part of it remained to
be sanctioned by Congress. This novel doctrine
was, ibat certain parts bad no binding force till
sets of Congress were passed, giving them effica-
cy; but even here gentlemen were not agreed
among themselves what those parts were. Their
idea of making partsof the Treaty over again by act
of Coneress was a very extraordinary one indeed ;
it involved a curious inconsistency, he had almost
said, an absurdity. By the Constitution the Fhe-
BinEKT negotiates a Treaty, and lays it before the
Senate, two-thirds of which approve. By the Con-
stitution, a law is made by a majority of both
Houses, and the approbation of the PREsmENT,
but two-thirds of both Houses may make a law,
without the Pbebident, Thus, according to this
new doctrine, a law, giving a binding force to a
compact with a foreign Power, might be made
without the intervention of the Pbebident, and
yet, bv the Constitution, the Treaty-making pow-
er is classed with the Executive powers, and is ex-
pressly delegated to the Phebident and Senate.
Again, two-thirds of the Senate must sanction a
two-thirds should, in the first instance, ratify a
Treaty, a majority would be sufficient in the se-
cond instance to give validity to the instrument.
Further, the Prebidbmt concludes the Treaty,
submits it to the Senate, who approves, and then
it is laid before the House for information ; but,
according to the new doctrine, the act giving valid-
ity to the Treaty must pursue an inverted course;
it must be cojnmenced in the Huuse, go to the
Senate, and from thence to the PitBHinBirr. By
adhering to the Constitutional distinction, all these
inconveniences are avoided ; thepREaiDBirr and
Senate made the compact; Congress mc to exe-
Mr. S. said, he would couclude his observatioos
on this important subject, by recalline the re-
collection of the House to a law, which fully con-
firmed the doctrine he had contended for.
It must be remembered, that, in March, 17H, a
law passed, laying a general embargo on all ves-
sels. After the law had taken effect, and all res-
sels had been detained in pursuance of it, oni
Treaty with Sweden was ccnstrued by the Execu-
tive to exempt the vessels of that nation Ikim the
embargo ; orders were accordingly issued to the
Collectors to snffer them to depart ; and they did
dejnrt, notwithstanding the act of Congress, wbicti
laid a ffeneral embargo, and under which those
vessels nad been detained. In that case, no law
was deemed requisite to repeal the existing act, in
respect to Swedish ships; the Executive alone
construed the Treaty, and finding that, by Treaty,
such vessels were not liable to ^bargo, ordered
their release, altboueh the act of Congress ex-
pressly included all foreign vessels; this circum-
stance was known at the time to Congress, and
the conduct of the PsBsuiBnT considered as con-
sistent with his duty. He saw no material dis-
tinction between this case and the question now
in discussion ; here was an act of the Executive,
without the intervention of Congress, in relation
to a commercial regulation, in whiclt a Treaty
was deemed paramount to an existing law; the
only difference between the cases was, that (he
Treaty with Sweden was made under the Old
Confederation: but that could not weaken the
principle, for it would not be denied, that the pre-
sent CoDstitutioD meant to give the Psbbident
and Senate at least as much power in relation to
Treaties, as bad been possessed by Congress nndet
the Old Qovernment.
Marob 11. — In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. LiviNGBTOii'a resolution..
Mr. Giles said, be expecteil, when the present
motion was made, that it would not be opposed.
The expected agency of the House respecting the
Treaty, at some subjects relating to it, made him .
imagine that the propriety of having the papers
called for could not be denied. The ^Treaty has
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been referred to a Committee of the Whole,
surely in order to act on it in same shape or other.
Indeed, the Presidbht, in his Speech, at the open-
ing of the session, expTesslvaays, that he will lay
the subject before them. This he considered as
fjU evidence, that the President conceived it
must come under the notice of the House. If the
papers could serre to explain any point relative
to that instrument, surely the possession of them
was desirable. He dectued that he felt unfavor-
ably towards the Treaty from the face of it ; and
that he believed the House had a right, and, if it
was a right, it must also tie their duty to oppose
ii!i execution by all the Constiiutiooal means in
their power as legislators, if they found it, upon
mature deliberation, contrary to the interest of
the people and the honor of the nation. He was
sensible of the great respoDsibility which rested
Dpon the House, and himself as a member of it,
at the present important crisis. Under the weight
of that responsibility, he felt it necessary to shape
his conduct under the fullest information that
could be obtained. But, while he acknowledged
the importance of the final issue of the present
question, he should not be induced by the weicht
of responsibility to swerve from his opinion ; but
he wished to form that opinion on the beat inform-
ation, and on the most mature consideration.
This was the general motive that weighed on his
mind in favor of the proposed call.
The right of ihe House to the papeia called for
bad not neen denied by most of the gentlemen
who opposed the present motion. They admit
that the proposition, on the face of it, is not un-
constitutioatd, if the House were about to exer-
cise the powers in a Judicial capacity, to deliber-
ate respecting an impeachment. The powers of
the House, he insisted, did not vary witn the dif-
ferent shapes they might constitutionally assume,
whether they were exercising their functions be
a Legislature or in a Judicial capacity. If the
nsht to call for the papers was conceded to the
Hkiuse in one capacity, now could it be denied to
them in another?
The right of the House to consldei of the ex-
pediency of Treaties, so far as the provisions of
them clash with their specific powers, had been
indirectly brought in in consiuering the present
motion. He regretted that this important Con-
stitutional question should be about to be decided
indirectly; but, this being the situation of Ihe de-
bate, he should state his reasons why he conceived
the argomeDl on this ground ought not to be con-
sidered as of sufficient strength to cause a nega-
tiTC of the motion before the Committee.
The question is, whether there be anyprovi-
liona in the Constitution by which this House
can in any case check the Treaty-making power .
and, of consequence, whether it can question the
merits of Treaties imder any circumstances 7
Various considerations bad been advanced
thaw that the House cannot question the me
of a Treaty. Borne of these considerations had
Cwa out of the subject extrinsically, others
a the provisions of the Constitution. Thoui '^
at first he bad intended to have stated simply E
own opmion of the Cpostitntioa on the import-
ant question now in view, yet, as eentlemen had
gone fully into the question in that shape, and
others bad stated a variety of objections to the
consiiuciion the friends of the motion contended
for, he should proceed to answer [hem„aod sufier
his opinion of the meaning of the Constitution to
be incidental.
The gentleman from South Carolina had refer-
red to the opinions of the Conventions of the
States at the time of adopting the Constitution.
As to Virginia, the gentleman had scaled thai that
State hail considered the checks is provided by
Ihe Constitution as inadequate, and proposed an
amendment, purporting to require two-thirds of
the whole number of Senators, instead of two-
thirda of the number present. This was (rue, he
believed ; but how would it appl^ in the sense
the gentleman wished 1 The objection of that
"ate was, that the check in the Senate, provided
the Treaty-making power, was not sufficient,
aod they proposed a greater : from which he
would BTjue tnat they conceived the Treaty-mak-
power 10 be a subject of extreme delicacy,
that they wished additional checks eonse-
Siently added. How ihb was to prove that the
onvenlion of Virginia did not construe the pre-
sent clauses of Ihe Constitution under debate as the
friends of the present motion did, he was at a loss
to determine. The gentleman who cited this in- '
stance had not quoted any part of the proceeding
on the subject, or of the reasons that led to the
amendment He had merely mentioned the re-
sult to the House. That gentleman had next
professed to take a view of the opinions of the ci-
tizens of the United Stales antecedent to Ihe pre-
sent discussion, and posterior to (he adoption of .
the Consiitucion. He had mentioned one case,
viz : the meeting of the people qf New York, who
assembled to petition the PBEeiDBHT not to give
his sanction to the pending Treaty, and exhort-
ing hira to refuse it, as. if it obtained hist sanction,
ii could not be got rid of except by a war. Mr.
G. remarked, he did not expect to hear that mem-
ber quote the proceedings of town-meetings as a
rule for the conduct of the House. Such assem-
blages of the neople bad otten been Ihe theme of
merriment, add always objects of contempt with
that gentleman, so tbM he did not conceive how
their proceedings could have any weight on the
opinions of the members.
Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, observed, that
on the present question he had said nothing
against the propriety of town-meetings.
Mr. GiLBB allowed that on tbe present occasion
the gentleman had not repeated his sentiments
respecting those meetings. For his own part, he
was always ready to acknowledge that the result
of those assemblies of the people, for the eipre^-
of their opinions, had a weight on his mind;
DUt ne might be permitted to ask that gentleman
why,, since he placed no faith on that source
of information, he brought any thing said at
such meetings into the view of"^ the House 1 If
the gentleman admitted the sense of those meet-
ing* as the orthodox explanation of the doubtM
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[Mabcb, 1796.
parts of the Constitution, and as the expression of
the public witl, he would Dor, he hoped, cotisider
il as oui of order when aoy question should arise,
to hear (he proceedings of those meetings cited
as an exposition of the public will.
But, in the present instance, he conceived the
member unfortunate in hi^ quotation. The n
ing wished to persuade the PaEainENT no
sign, and they used the stron^t expressions they
could think of to convince hitn of the improprie-
ty of putting his hand to the fatal in^^rumcnt.
The meeting was not assembled for the purpose
of eiponnding the Constitution: they met to give
wei^DC to an application made to the proper au-
thonty to beg that the Treaty might be crushed
in that state of the business. But, to take (he
BBnlleman's own rule of construction, it will be
found that when their petitions to (he PReai-
BBNT wera of no effect, they then .addressed this
House as their dernier resort. If these popular
proceedings were to be considered as an expres-
sion of public (ip:nion, he would say that (he pe-
ttlioDs 00 the table of the House were more nu-
merous than he had ever known them on any
question whatever. From these petitions it will
be found that (Ik people bad recc^ised the pow-
er of the House to interfere, and lagged them not
to abandon their rights.
The next subject the member from South Ca-
rolina touched upon was, the late amendments
proposed to the Constitulion by the State of Vir-
ginia. He deduced, from one of these amend-
ments^ that the Legislature of that State did not
GoneeiTe the power of the House to extend to
matters of Treaty. This be did not beliere a
fair deduction. It is not contended that there are
words in the Constitution expressly pving this
participation in controlling Treaties to the House,
It is only contended for as growing out of the spe-
cific powers vested in Congress. The object of
the State of Virginia was (hen to exchange a
construction that might be disputed for an exprea-
sion not to be doubted. It was unnece>sary for
the gentleman from South Carolina to remind
the State of Virginia of the fate of their propo-
•itionsin the Legisiaturesofcheserei^ States. Vir-
gtDiB, he hoped, would pursue uniformly the line
of conduct that had marked her political charac-
ter, under whatever circumstances she might hap-
pen to be pUc«d. Her conduct had been nniform
from the Declaration of Independence to the pre-
sent day ; uniform and exemplary in their obedi-
ence to the laws, and- in their activity against en-
oioachmenia ; and, notwithstanding the fate of
her propoaed amendments, he prided himself in
repreaenting a. Slate that never offered the slig-hi-
est mark of disrespect to a sister State for differ-
isg with her in opinion. If Virginia had been
the cause of aome indelicacies on theiatt of other
States, she is the innocent cause. They had ex-
erciaed a Constitutional right which they con-
oeived it their duty to exercoe, and they could not
be respooaible for any indeticacies to which that
conduct might have given riae.
The practice of the House had been referred to
featerday by the member last up, [Mr. Smith, of
South Carolina.] He had remarked that the
House had passed a general resolution directing
the Clerk to place in the code of laws of the Unit-
ed Stales Treaties made under the authority of
the United States. Was this, he asked, an expo-
sition of the meaning of the Constitution? He be-
lieved the resolution a very proper one, and would
vote DOW for its adoption if it was yet to be passed.
Il is certainly proper, when a Treaty is concluded
under the aulhorily of the United States, that it
should be annexed to their code of laws; but this
could not weigh against the exercise of discretion
in the Hoose on important Legislative subjects.
The practice of tne House, with respect to ap-
propriation laws, in the cases of Indian Treaties,
naa been mentioned by the member from Sotilh
Carolina. In the first place, in observing upon
this, he would remark, tnat he always conceived
there was a distinction between so Indian Treatv
and a Treaty with a foreign nation. The English
had always made a distinction when we were Co-
lonies. The Constitution establishes an express
difference. He should not, however, founa his
objections to the inference of the gentleman upon
this, but would examine it unconnected with this
distinction. Provisions had been made by this
House to carry Indian Treaties into* effect; but
why? No doubt because the House conceived it
wise so to do, not because thejr bad not a right to
use their discretion in the business. Suppose, on
any of those occasions, a motion had been made
'fike out the sum proposed to be appropriated,
Id it have been said that the motion was out
of order? A similar motion was made lately
with respect to the Mint, and it was not consider-
ed as out of order. If, on that occasionj it bad
been the opinion of the House that the Mint was
an improper establishment, by refusing the appro-
priation they could have defeated the law. It
was certainly the opinion of the House that they
could exercise their discretion in the business, for
was not even hinted that the motion for striking
It was out of order.
On another head the gentleman appeared to
plume himself much. He had asked, why, since
the PRESTnEiTT had proclaimed a Treaty as the
of the land, which was not the law of the
land, why he was not impeached? This question,
the member exuliingljr remarked, had not been
answered, because, he imagined, it could not be
answered.
Suppose I should tell the gentleman, said Mr.
O., that 1 could not now give him an answer,
would it show that the House had not the author-
ity contended for fay the friends of the presentmo-
7 Why was the subject mentioned? Hot
a view, I believe, to the discovery of the
truth. I fear it is calculated to produce an oppo-
te effect — to check investigation. It is too ollen
le case that the names of persons are brought
ito view, not to promote the development of
firinciples, but as having a tendencv to destroy
reedom of inquiry. I will go furtner with the
gentleman, and admit for a moment (a position,
however, I shall by and by controvert) that the
PacaitiBNT conceived that he had ■ ri^t, after
L
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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the exchange or ratifications, lo promulgaie the
Treaif as the supreme law of the land ; what
Tronld this amount to? Why] oaW that this was
his opinion ; but is that authority here 1 la any
other case rather than the present, 1 should be in-
cljaed to pay a greater respect to opinions from
that source ; but nonr, when the questioo is about
the division of powers between two deparimeats,
■re we to be told of the opinioos of one of those
departiaenls, to show that the other hasno righi to
the erercise of power in the case. Such appeals
are not calculated to convince, but to aknn.
He acItDowledeed that the PaEsiDENT'sFrocla-
matioo differed from what he expected tt would
have been ; because the Presioeht had expressly
said in his Speech, at the openinG; of I^c sessioDj
that he would lay the subject of the Treaty be-
fore the House ; and not, he supposed, for theji
opiniaus oaly, but for their agency. He believed,
however, the Proclamation was issued in jts pre-
sent form with the best intentions; but the au-
thority for the opinions on whicl) it was founded
would not, he said, prevent him from eiercisiug
his own. Opinion, said Mr. G., is sometimes re-
pulsive. Wnen it is pressed too closely, resistance
and reaction, not favorable to the iavesiieation of
tratb, are the consequence. The whole argu-
House would seek within themselves for opioi
and not travel for them to other departments of
the Government. He hadsaJd,however, that itwas
his belief that it was not probable the Phesideht
viewed the Treaty as the supreme law of the land
before il bad been submitted for Legislative de-
ciHon; and this belief was groundea on the in-
teatioDs which the President expressed in his
Speech of laying the sutgect before the House.
Having examined the objections lo the con-
struction contended for by the friends of the mo-
tion, drawn from collateral sources, he should
turn hia attention next, he said, to the intrinsic
meaning of the Constitution. He would attempt
to interpret the Constitution from the words of it.
U was a misfortune the clauses were not more
clear and explicit, so far as to force the same
meaniikg upon every miad, however they might
differ in opinion in other respects. However,
from the imperfection of language, it was no won-
der, lie observed, that on an mslrument providing
for to many different objects, and providing such
a variety of checks, various opinions as to con-
ttroctiun should arise ; but he considered the pre-
KDt clauses of as plain import as any pa/t ofthe
instrument. The construction contended for by
the opposers of the motion is, beyond denial, the
most Aingerous in its effects, and the least proba<
ble, ai be thought, in its meaning. It is contend-
ed by them that the Treaty -making power is un-
defined ioiisDRture. unlimited as toils objects, and
suprem9 in its operation ; that the Treaty-mak-
ing power embraces all the Legislative powers :
Operates by controlling all other authorities, and
IMI it is anchecked. When he had asserted this
power, a» contended by the gentlemen to be un-
limited in its objects, he meant, however, that
they had confined it only within the limits of the
Constitution; but even adruilling it in that ex-
tent, is certainly a doctrine sufficiently alarming.
When llie gentlemen contend for its supremacy,
they also admit in this point some qualiucaiions;
according to their doctrine, it is not to be supreme
over the nead of the Constitution, but in every
other respect they contend that it snail be unlim-
ited, supreme, undefined. Gentlemen who insist
that Treaties are supreme, next to the Constitu-
tion, must also grant that there is no oecessily for
the House to trouble themselves with making laws.
It will be remarked, said Mr. Q., by examining
the history of man, that the people nave always
been desirous to check the exercise of power in
the administrators, and as uniformly have admin-
istrators endeavored to evade those checks. The
same among us. The American people, sensible
of this, when they, after a fortunate struggle for
their liberties, were about lo exercise their discre-
tion in the establishment of a Constitution that
should secure their rights and liberties, formed a
Government of checks. The Americans have the
reputation of a sagacious people, and have showed
their sagacity in framing this Constitution j but
even if they had proved themselves more sa^-
cious in devising checi[s,a correspondent sagacity
would still have been found in the Government to
evade them. Never, I will venture lo say, was
there an instance of a more complete rout of so
complete a system of checks, within the term of
six years, in any Government on earth; and if
the doctrine now contended for be agreed to. then
I do declare that the triumph of evasion of cneckt
-is complete, indeed, and little will be left hereafter
to be evaded.
The construction contended for by the friends
of the resolution is derived from two sources—
from the Constitution, and the nature of things.
The Constitution says, the President, with the
advice and consent of two-thirds of the Senators
present, shall make Treaties. Perhaps, if there
was no other clause, the Treaty-making power
might be considered as unlimited. Another clause
declares that the Constitution, the laws made un-
der it, and Treaties, shall be the supreme law -of
the land. Here the gentlemen, when they quote
this clause, stop, as it there were no other words
in it ; and from all this it would appear that the
people had, in fact, delegated an unchecked power.
But, if we go on, il willlK found that the last-men-
tioned clause adds that the Judges in the respec-
tive Stales shall cause them to be executed, any
thing in the Constitution or laws of the individual
States to the contrary notwithstanding. From
the jealousy which individual Stales showed un-
der the Old Confederation for the preservation of
iheir powers, and the inconveniences which were
experienced in consequence, it was found neces-
sary, when orraoizing a new Government, to de-
clare, explicitly, that their Constitutions and laws
must yield lo the Conttitution, lawt, and TrealU*
of the United States, and for this purpose this
clause was introduced.
Gentlemen, after granting that the Conaliimioa
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is suprema when in opposition to Treaties, con-
tend that Treaties are supreme over laws. They
also admit that this is not warranted by the Con-
stitution, but they contend that it i9 so from the
nature of things. From the nature of things, he
aaid, he should infer the reverse, though be disa-
greed in this from the gentleman from Penn-
SlTania, [Mr. Gallatin.] He contended that
e ConstiEutioQ and the acts of the Legislature
annul Treaties, and that Treaties do not annul
laws. This he should inrer from the nature of
Treaties and the nature of laws. Gentlemen said
that Treaties could not be repealed, because thej
were made by two contracting parties. This
sounds Tery well, but was erer such a thing heard
of as a Convention to repeal a Treaty 1 If this
had never been done by ConTcntion, it is at least
presumable that the omuaion to have done so here-
tofore renders this theory doubtful. The truth is,
that the right of annulling Treaties is essential tu
national soTereignty ; andnations have at all tiuii;^
taken their own measures respecting Treaties, un-
der the conunon responsibility for tbe breach ;
hut if such is the practice, as is contended for, it
would be advisable in the present case. Perhaps,
said Mr. G., if his gracious Majesty is once more
stduted witn an expression of our reliance on his
magnanimity, and well known justice, dtc., he may
relieve us from the burden. If the epithets are
reverberated on him, they might rid us of that
dilemma, which they had such an agency in pro-
ducing.
Mr. G. contended, that tbia mode of repealinf
Treaties by Conventions was merely theory, am
that no instance ot the exercise of ^uch a power
could be met with in the history of nationa, neither
is the doctrine consonant to reason. The reason
why a law should repeal a Treaty, is because the
law b an expression of the will of the nal'
through their Couslitutiooal organ. He did
mean to say, that a Treaty is not binding as long
as it is a law; But, if it is admitted that the House,
in concurrence with the other branches, have the
power of declaring war, then he would not sav,
that the L^slature were to repeal Treaiiesaiticle
by article, but certainly they may annul them.
He would f^o farther, and suppose, by (be instru-
ment submitted to the House, an equalization of
duties on foreign and domestic bottoms be pro-
vided for, to the injury of our carrying trade ; sup-
pose a law should then pass annulling the Treaty ;
gentlemen sav tbis would lead to war; perhaps it
might hare tne effect, but that is nut now the ques-
tion ; the question of right is now in debate ; sup-
pose a law should pass repealing, by the concur-
rence of the proper authorities, the particular ar-
tide, the existence of which he bad supposed, the
Treaty would be rendered pro tanta void. Sup-
pose, be said, in tbe case oT the present Treaty,
that the Parliament of Great Britain refuse to
carry it into complete effect, were we to enforce
on Great Britain a compliance of its stipulations 1
Great Britain had at all events (be right so to act,
taking the consequences of her conduct upon her-
■elf. But gentlemen contend that a Treaty is ir-
npealable ; and because a foreign Power is a party
in the contract, not because it is the interest of
the United Slates that it should be so.
Mr. G. then contended that, in proportion as an
auihoritv is undefined, in that proportion every
check sDould be exercised. It is tbe height of
folly to contend that the American people ever
intended to give any authority an unlimited ope-
ration. If the Constitution be examined, it will
In the first place, it contains limitations to the
aggregate powers of the Government. In the
next^ace,i( provides checks for the powers given
up. These checks are at least of three kinds; the
first is, that of a diitribution of different species
of authorities into distinct hands, as in the case of
the Legislative, Executive, and Judiciary ; second-
ly, it requires a concurrence of different branches
ol the Goremment for the exercise of the same
species of authority, as in tbe case of all Legisla-
tive subjects, the concurrence of the Senate aixd
this House, to which is subjoined the qualified
veto of the PnEsiDfinT ; the tnird species consists
of prohibitions upon the whole of the departments
in the exercise or particular authorities intrusted
to them, as in the case of a prohibition of an ap-
propriation for the support of an Army for more
than two years; the prohibition respecting ex-
ports under the power to regulate commerce, Suu
So jealous has the Constitution been with respect
to armies, that it also requires biennial elections
for the purpose of enabling every new House to
Erevent tbe execution of a taw for raising an Army
y withholding the appropriations for its support.
Whilst the Constitution was formed under this
spirit of jealousy, it would have been wonderful
tnat that power which is described to be unlimit-
the Constitution, if it be fairly interpreted ; and it
is not very material whether these checks are in
express wordsj or whether they result virluallj
from the distribution of the several powers. It is
sufBcicnt that they are efficacious.
The checks on the Treaty-making power he
considered as divisible into two classes ; the first,
consists in the necessary concurrence of the House
to give efficacy to Treaties ; which concurrent
E)wer ihey derive from the enumeration of the
egislative powers of the House. Where the
Treaty-making power is exercised, it must be un-
der the reservation, that its provisions, so far as
they interfere with the specified powers delegated
to Congress, must be so far submitted to the dis-
cretion of thatdepartmentofiheOovetnment, The
President and Senate, by the Constitution, have
the power of making Treaties, Congress ^le pow-
er of regulating commerce, raising armies, dtc. ;
and iheve, he contended, must form so many ex-
ceptions to the general power. Gentlemen had
said that the Constitution was the exposition of
the will of the people, and, as such, that they would
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[H-OPR.
obey ib iDJunctions. There could b« no differ-
ence of opiDion on thii giouod ; for his own part,
be confessed, if he adored aD)[tbiDe on earth, it is
that will. But the question is, what is that will,
u expressed in the Conatitution 1 That in '
menL to his mind, explained this question
cleBrlf. It enumerates certain powers which li
declares specifically vested in Congress; and where
is the danger to be apprehended from the doctrin<
laid down by the friends of the resolution f th>
coDtrary construction must produce the most per-
nicious consequences ; agreeably to that, there
would remaio no check orei the most unlia ' '
power in the QoTernment. The gentlemen
lend, that the House must remain silent spectators
in the business of a Treaty, and that they bare no
righttotheexerciseof an opinion in the matter; they
must then abandon their Constitutional right of
legisUtioQ ; they must abandon the Constitution
and cling to Treatie^i a<^ supreme.
The other check orer the Treuty-maldug p;iw-
er. he noticed, was the power of making appropri-
Uions, the ejicrcise of which is specifically vested
in Congresa. He b^i^ed leave to call the parlicU'
lar attention of the Committee to this part of the
inbiect. The Constitution says, that no money
shall be drawn from the Treasury, but , in eonse-
qnenee of appropriations made by law. This is
no donbt intended as a check in addition to those
possessed by the House. It is meant to enable
the House, without the concurrence of the other
branches, to check, by refusing money, any mis-
chief in the operations carrying on in any depart-
ment of the QoTemmeDt. Butwb^t isa law? It
it a rule prescribed by competent authority. The
word law in the clause of the Constitution he had
last noticed, was not meant in reference to the
Treaty-making power; but in reference to Con-
Sess. A law prescribes a rule of conduct ; it is
E expression of the will of the proper authority ;
it is the result of discretion. Legislalioo implies
(ieliberalion. If a law is the expression of the will,
most not an appropriation law be equally so? Bat
pntiemen had found out a new-fashioned expo-
silion of the word discretion, and, according to
their definition in fact, it was no discretion at all.
They had mentioned a part of the Constitution
which provides that tbe salaries of the Judicial
deparlmeul shall be fixed ; and asked, whether
the HoDse should conceive itself ai liberty to use
a discretion in appropriations for that depart-
ment 7 Before he could consider this case and
that before the House, now parallel, he must beg
gentlemen would point out any part of the Con-
stitution that declared the House should not exer-
cue their discretion when called upon to make
appropriations to carry into efiect a Treaty. He
eontS find nowhere, that, in this case, the right of
opinion of the House is coostrained.
A member from South Carolina had given to
diHcreiion a negative meaning ; and chose to con-
ceive that the discretion contended for by the
friends of the motion, was a discretion of whim
and caprice ; this was not the case. He bad then
attempted to combat the doctrine of discretion by
a trite remark, indeed, that it never could be right
to do wrong. He would answer him in a manner
as trite, ana say. that it never could be wrong to
do right. But t)iis proved nothing ; still it is ne-
cessary to inquire and judge what was right and
what wrong, and to do this, discretion must be
exercised. So, in the present case, if it is right
to carry the Treaty into effect, it would be wrong
not to do it i and so, if it would be wrong to sanc-
tion it, it could not be right to agree to it. But this
is to bedetermined by the exercise of asound discre-
tion. Heowned hefelt attached to theold-fashioned
discretion, which consists in the faculty of choos-
ing or refusing ; he could not admit of^ the docile
complying discretion, that gentleman contends for;
he would call it a predestinated discretion. The
effect of this new-fangled discretion would be, not
to vote Bccordiog to the conviction of one's own
mind, but by that of another. A clause of the
Constitution had been cited to support the defini-
tion of discretion advanced by Uie gentleman i
that part which directs that Coner^ss shall call a
convention when a certain number of States re-
quire it. This surely could not apply to the doc-
trine advanced J there was, in that case, iio room
for tbe exercise of discretion; discretion is out of
the question, and there is a positive obligation,
under the binding force of an oath.to do a thing
when required in a certain manner; in this mat-
ter, Congress are only to execute the injunction
of the Constitolion. Gentlemen had attempted to
p a new doctrine as to the operation of the
il sense; their moral sense was to be exercised
by the FaEamENT and Senate, and they were will-
ing to abide by its operation in the breasts of those
branches of the Government. He had always un-
derstood, for his own part, that an agent who had
the right to be directed by his moral sense, must
' ! a free agent.
There could be, be contended, no Legislative
act without detibeiation ; the opinions which were
to guide their decisions must be matured by de-
liberation ; they were not to decide upon predes-
tinated impressions; but their conduct must rest
> the operations of their own minds.
A gentleman frorp Connecticut had discarded
all pretence to the exercise of discretion ; he mi^I
have an opinion as a citizen, but would not have
one on the present question as a legislator. This
was a nice distinction, indeed ; he could not, for his
ownpart, abstract in this way the citizen from the
legislator. He declared, he would not form an
opinion i Mr. G. conceived it the duty of ti legis-
lator to exercise an opinion, and not snut his eyes
against conviction, and not to receive them from
extrinsic quarters. When the Constitulioa says,
the Legislature shall enact laws, it implies that
tbey must be tbe fruits of deliberation, and not in
',e nature of an Executive act.
The uniform practice of the British Oovem-
ment had been cited to have been, in the case of
Treaties, the same as that contended for by the
friends of the present motion. Tiie greatest securi-
■ for tbe liberties of the people established in that
government, depends on the control which their
Parliament has over the purse-strings. In England,
this power rests merely on custom; here, the
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
rR.]
Treaty with Gnat Brtlaia.
[March, 1796.
House are eipreasjy ioirusted with il; what is
custom ia England, is reduced to wricine in our
ConstiiutioD. Then, if this power is in ElD^land
a ground for PaTlianieut to judge of Treaties, it
is a fair iafeience that il oi^hl to be exercised
here. The practice of the British GrOTerumenl,
he observed, had often been quoted here, in sup-
port of doctrines very differeat from those in aid
of which it is now cited; it has been deemed or-
thodox when it favored Executive prerogative.
He confef-sed, he never did expect that, as early
as 1796. a reference would be made to practices,
under the British Government, in support of the
rights of the popular branch of our GoverDtneni.
It was painful to be obliged to have resort to that
Government on such an occasion; bulibeButbor-
ily of that Government should not be rejected for
once, because its practice could be quoted in fa-
TOT of ibe popular branch. The ground of the
Eraclice in England, and of the right claimed
ere, rests upon the souod maxim, that all public
money is from the pockets of the people^ and. that
it should be expended by none but tneir Repre-
aenlatives. No maxim bad been more instru-
mental than this, in preseiviug the remnants of
British freedom ; and thus early la the House called
apon to abandon it here.
Since checks were so wholesome and efficaciousj
and the want of them so dangerous to Ibe tights
of the people, there could arise no evil conse-
quence, ana but little inconvenience, from a mul-
tiplicity. What would the doctrine lead to, which
goes to the suppression of the check now contend-
ed for 1 That the Prebident and Senate may, if
they please, reduce the House to a formal and not
an efficient branch of the Governmeni.
Treaties are contended to be paramount to the
laws; the President and Senate make these Trea-
ties, and when made and proclaimed as the su-
preme law, there ia « predestinated necessity in
the House to make the requisite provisions for
carrying them into effect. The danger of this
doctrine, he said, could not be better exemplified,
than by a reference to the circumstances that at-
tended the late Treaty in its nrogres.'i. Three
years aeo, a difference took place Vtween the dif-
ferent branches of Qovernmeot, as to the policy
that should obtain in reference to the conduct
of one foreign nation. The House were unwill-
ine to trust solely to the magnanimity of the
King, and wished to make some exertions ihecn-
aelves for self-protection. With this view several
measures were proposed, viz : commercial restric-
tioDs, non-importation, embargo, seouest ration, or
rather a rresiat ion upon the ground of the •taiu*
quo. One of the measures passed the House by a
respectable majority, but was rejected in the Se-
nate by the casting vote of the Vice PBEainEifT
The President appointed an Envoy Extraordi-
nary, who entered into certain slipalalicns, which,
being sanctioned by two-thirds or the Senate, it is
now contended, are to operate to the destruction
of the powers specifically vested in the House.
If the ahove was a true statement, he said, and
he did not see in what particuUr it could be co
tradieted, then the Executive had been exerted
a check upon the Legislative power, for the ne-
Eotiaiion necessarily foreclosed any further Legiv
itive proceedinga. It did more than this; ibe
Executive legislated aeainsi legislation, and over-
ruled them on the subject in contest. He should
not advert at this time, he said, to the collateral
circumstances which attended this business, Dor
go further in detail ; he wished only to remark
generally on (be dangerous operation of the doc-
trines contended for". Now, itjs said, the House
have nothing to do but to obey, lo appropriate the
necessary money, leaving all deliberation aside.
Three years ago there was a further difference
of opinion between the branches of Government
on another interesting que>^tion. One branch was
di:>posed to have an increase of the Military Es-
tablishment ; a proposition to this effect was
brought into the House, and negatived. The
Senate, notwithstanding, successively sent down
two or three bills for an increase of the Mititarjr
Establishment — they were as repeatedly nega-
tived by the House. Here different views existed,
but the doctrine of checks was liberally exerciaed,
and he thought to a good purpose.
If the Fhebident, said Mr. Giles, eaa, by the
assistance ot a foreign Power, legislate against
the rights of the House to legislate, and his pro-
ceedings are to be Ijinding on the House, it neces-
sarily deatrovs their right to the exercise of dis-
cretion. If DC can by Treaty declare, that com-
merce shall not be regulated, that property shall
not be sequestrated, and that piracies shall be
judged and punished as ha thinlcs fit; if be is to
exercise the unlimiled Treaty-making power con-
tended for, what security have we that he may
not go further when the negotiations are renewed
with Great Britain, agreeably to the stipulations
of the present Treaty 7 What security have we
that he will not agree with Great Britain, that if
she will keep up an Army of ten thousand men in
Canada,hewilldothe same here? How could such
a stipulation be got over by the House, when ihej
are told that in matters of Treaty Ibey mu!<t not
pretend to exercise their will, but must obeyT
How will this doctrine operate upon the power
of appropriation? A Military Establishment may
be instituted for twenty years, and as their moral
sense is' to prevent their witnholding appropria-
tions, they can have no power over its existence.
Gentlemen should pause, he said, and con.sider
what would be the situation of the United States,
under this doctrine, before they give it their sanc-
tion. What he had mentioned as a possible re-
snll of it. he observed, would bear more evidence
of probaoility if the doctrine was eatabKshed.
Establish the doctrine, said Mr. G., and under its
influence he thought there was a greater .proba-
bility, at this day, of a stipulation for such an
: armament, than jhere was on the day the late
Envoy was appointed, that such a Treaty as the
present would have been the result of the nego-
tiation. He took a retrospect of the circumstances
attendant on that negotiation. When the Envoy
waa named, what were the expectations? Not
that he waa going lo throw himself upon the
magnanimity of the Monarch ; but that he would
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March. 1796]
Treaty with Great Britain.
obtain a redress ofgrieTaoces, and provide foT the
futuTe security of our neuiral rights ; but what
redrew or security does the issue ot the embassy
promise 7
Gentlemen had goae so far as to declare, that
an attempt to eiamioe the merits of the Treaty
was rebeltiOD, was treason apiiDst the ConstitU'
lion. What justifies these har^h epithets? Such
assertions could only create ill-will, aod could not
tend to the investigation of truth. Another argu-
neot of the same nature had been used. It
said, that the attempt at exercising a control i
the Trealy-makins power was disorgHnizinf the
Oorernment. He oelieved the contrary would be
found to be the case : The doctrine advocated by
the friends to the motion, otAvgoes to claim a
negative voice in the business of Treaty-makiDz ;
whereas the doctrine of its opposers claims the
eiercise of a power, that would supersede the
iMcific BUthonty delegated to the Legislature in
all cases whatever. How would even a rejection
of the Treaty disorganize iheOovernmentl Sup-
pose the House should vote the Treaty null, and
the next day quietly pass a land bill ; would not
the bill go calmly throiub its different stages?
There is no foundation for the imputation ; it is
mere clamor and noise, vox et pneterea nihU.
Checks have been exercised before, and have not
produced these dreadful consequences. When the
House attempted to suspend the intercourse be-
tween this country and Great Britain, they were
checked by the Senate, the Treaty was the onl^
evil consequence of this. The use of checks is
destroyed when the doctrine of coalition among
the different branches prevails. Such coalescing
dors not render the Government strong; the
streneth of such a Goveromeat as ours is in the
confidence of the people. Then let each branch
make a manly use of its delegated authority ; they
will retain that confidence and secure that strength.
He did not believe, however, that the Ameii'
can people could be enslaved b^ their Qovern-
ment ; tlycy were too well convmced of the effi-
cacy of the system of checks to suffer their liber-
ties to be filched from them for want of the exer-
cise of them. He remarked, the House had not
been told yet how the exercise of discretion in the
business of the Treaty was to destroy the Govern-
ment. Possibly the TreaLy with Britain is to give
It energy, and if it be defeated, then disorganiza-
tion was to ensoe. But is the Goverumeot of the
United States so low as to require foreign aid for
its support 7 If it is tottering thus early, it may
^nt, ere long, new negotiations aod newconces-
■lons to prop It.
This would be & dreadful dilemma, that the
V^vernment should not possess efficacy enough io
|ts«lf, but must lean on Great Britain for support.
This Would be a great reflection on the Govern-
■uent, and the conclusion to be drawn would be,
wal the confidence of the people had been mis-
placed. He believed the Government a Govern-
ment of checks j that it *as not intended the en-
*'Sf ot the Executive was to be iocreaaed by a
^ition or subordination of departments, and
popped by k foreign Power.
as expounded by the gentlemen, would lead to a
despotism of the worst kind. And if they were
to plunge the nation headlong into the evils that
must result from the establishment of the doc-
trines contended for by the empty sounds of war
and disorganization, he should then lament the
weakness — be should then, and not till then, dis-
trust the discretion of the House.
Mr. G. said, that before he concluded he could
not help remarkiug, that the terms of war and dis-
orgaoization had been often applied lo himselF,
and others, who generally associated with him in
political bpinions ; that he had at all times beheld
those grouodless calumnies with contempt; that
he disdained them, and had never condescended
to any explanation. He remarked, that he was
not in the habit of making professions; he knew
that his conduct was the criterion by which he
ultimatelv would, and ought to be, judged ; and to
that, wiln pleasure, he made his appeal for his
justification.
Mr. Sedowick said, that, after the length at
time which had been consumedj and the talents
-which had been so ably exerted in the discussion
of Ihissubjcct, he should not think himself author-
ized to call the attention of the Committee to any
observations of his ; but. that he considered it in
principle, and in its consequences, as the most im-
portant question which had ever been debated in
this House. It wait no less than whether this
f^use should, by construction and imftlication, ex-
tend its controlling iofiuence to subjects which
were expressly, and he thought exclusively, dele-
gated by the people to another department of the
Government. We had heretofore been warned
:mphaiically a^inst seizing on power by con-
struction and implication. He had known no
iostance in which the caution that warning en-
forced, deserved more attention than on the pre-
Dt occasion.
It must, he said, have been foreseen by the author
of the motion, that it would tiltimately be contested
on the present ground. No sufficient reason had
been given as an object for the calL The various
reasons which had been hinted at had hardly been
suggested before they 'were respectively aban-
doned. It would be remembered, and indeed had
been avowed, that a request, such as the present.
IS in nature of ademand. II was true, if wehaa
thority on the subject of forming Treaties, we
had a right to all the means of exercising an in-
telligent discretion; and the demand, of course,
was well founded. But, if we had no such authori-
ty, and we had none, unlexs it could be discovered
in the Constitution, then the demand had no good
foundation on which it could rest, and was, in his
opinion, an attempt at seizing on power by usur-
"i was perfectly sensible in how disagreeable
ttitude a man would stand, who should at-
tempt to limit the extent of power claimed by an
nbly to which he should addres.s himself. He
some of themoflpowerful inclinations of bu-
natnre to contend with. He felt the full force
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.ofR.1
Trtaty viilk Oreat Britaijt.
pklABCB, 1796.
of the iDfluenceofthiipiiDciple, as it would afford
the cause of lepulsioa aCd resistance to the argu-
ments which he might submit: But haviug formed
an opinion, perfectly satisfactory to bis own mind,
from the beat light which hooest investigation
could procure, he thought tt a duty he owed his
CDUDIry and posterity— a duty rendered more in-
dispensable from the obligations which were upon
him — to obey the will of ihe people expressed in
the Constitution of their GoTernment, which he .
had sworn to support, solemnly to declare that
opiaioD, aud the reasons on which it was founded.
He, in bis conscience, believed, that if the Con-
stituiiou could operate the benefits its original in-
stitution intended — that if the Ooveinment should
be rendered adequate to the protection of liberty,
and the security of the people, it must be by keep-
■ ing the several departnieDts distinct, and withm
their prescribed limits. Hence, that man would
give as good eridence of Republicanism, of virtue,
of sincere love of country, who should defend the
Executive in the exercise of his Constitutional
lights, as the man who should contend for any
other department of Government. If either should
usurp the appropriate powersof another, anarchy,
confusion, or despotism, must ensue : (he functions
of the usurping power would not be legitimate,
but their eiercise despotism. If the power of con-
trolling Treaties was not in the House, the same
Sirit which might usurp it might also declare
e existence of the Mouse perpetual, and fill the
vacancies as thej; should occur. The merits of
the present question, it seemed to be agreed, de-
pended on this right ; it was of infinite impor-
tance, therefore, to decide it justly.
It would be taken for granted, and it would be
conceded on all hands, that we were to resort to
the Constitution, to know the extent and limits of
our power, and if we found not there a clear evi-
dence of its existence, we ought to abandon the
had E
iny eipre!
delegation to make or to control the public'will
'in any of our relations with foreign nations. On
the other band, we found it declared, that the
' Fbesidekt should have power to make Treaties
by and with the ad vice and consent of the Senate,
provided two-thirds of the Senators present con-
curred. Treaties, to attain the ends for which
they were designed, were, from their nature, su-
preme laws ; but the Constitution had, in another
place, declared, Treaties made under the authority
of the United States should be supreme laws.
Qentlemen had said, that it was not declared that
Treaties made by the PBEsmBNT and Senate
should have this effect; but those made under the
authority of the United States. The question
then recurred, what Treaties were made under
the authority of the United States T The true
answer undoubtedly was, Treaties made by those
to whom the people, by their Constitution, had
delegated the power. The FaEsinBHT, qualified
as had been mentioned, had expressly, and none
else had such power. If we were to rest the sub-
ject here, it would seem to follow irresistibly, and
to be incapable almost of higher proof, that when-
ever a compact was formed by the PKGaiDBin
ith a foreign nation, and had received the advice
d consent of the Senate, if it was of snch. a na-
ture as to be properlv denominated a Treaty, all
its stipulation^would thereby, and from that mo-
ment, become "supreme taws."
That such had been (he construction from the
commencement of the Government to the pro-
mulgation of the British Treaty, he believed
would be universally admitted; and but for that
Treaty, probably never would have been denied.
Did this afford no evidence that the construction
was a just one? Was the subject a less import-
ant one, its decision might be fafely trusted on
this ground. But all-important, as it was, for the
purpose of further investigation it might be use-
ful to consider the nature, extent, objects, and
effects of this power.
What authority was then delegated under a
grant of power to form Treaties? Did not the
term Treaties include alt stipulations between io-
dependent nations relative to subjects in which
the contracting parties have a mutual or common
interest? If it had a more confined ot limited
sense, it became those who contended for it, to
mark the limits and designate the boundaries.
Without a power so extensive, much of the bene-
fit resulting from amicable intercourse between
independent nations would be lost ; and disputes
and differences, which are inevitable, would have
no means of amicable termination. Prom the
obvious utility, and indeed the absolute necessity,
that such a power should be exercised, we know
of no civilized nation, either ancient or modem,
which had not provided the organs of negotiation
to the extent, substantially, which be had men-
tioned. The power indispensable had always
been delegated, though guards had been provided
against its abuse by nlOerent means.
It was not now to be inquired, whether the
Ewer of treating was wisely deposited, althongh
was inclined to believe it could not be in-
trusted to safer hands. It was suflieieni, that
those who had the right, the citizens of America,
had declared their will, which we were bound to
respect, because we had sworn to support it, and
because we were their deputies.
The power of treating between independent
nations might be classed under the following
heads: 1. To compose and adjust differences,
whether to terminate or to prevent war. 2. To
form contracts for mutual security or defence; or
to make Treaties, offensive or defensive. 3. To
regulate an intercourse for mutual benefit, or to
form Treaties of commerce. Without the first,
war and contention could only be terminated bjr
the destruction of one of the parties ; without the
second, there could be no ^fence, by means cj
union and concert, against superior force ; and
without the last, a profitable and beneficial inter-
course could not be arranged on terms of recipro-
city. Hence, then, it must be evident to every
unprejudiced mind, that by a grant of power to
make Treaties, authority was given to bind the
nation by stipulations; to preserve peace or ter-
minate war ; to enter into alliances, offensive and
defensive, and to form commercial Treaties.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Masch, 1796.]
TVtaij/ with Gnat Britain.
[H.orR.
This poTver, be held, aolimited by the GoDstila-
tioo, ttad he held, too, that in its niture, lo the
extent he had meDlioned, it waa illimitable. Did
* serious difiereoce eiist with a foreign nation, in
detenniDins on the nature and extent of the stip-
ulations which might be accessary to adjnsi it,
the cause of iojury, national rights and honor, the
eyils of war, and all circumstances of relatiuo be-
tween the two countries, must be taken into ac-
count. In formii^ alliances, the threatened pres-
sure, your own and your enemy's relative strength,
tbe objects of ac(juisitioQ or defence, must be
considered. And, in adjusting an equitable inter-
course for commercial porposes, a thonaand cir-
ca mstances present theauelres for nice calcula-
tion*. A thousanil circumstances of foreign rela-
tions would occur in tbe history of every country,
tmder which nothing short of unlimited power*
of negoliatioa would be adequate to a prevention
of enormous, perhaps riiinous evils.
But it might be objected, that a power so enor-
moua, and comprehending such essential interests,
might be abusedj and tbeace ashed, where is the
remedy? To this he answered, that a national
association required, for the great purpose of pte-
seiratioti, an unlimited confideace on many sub-
jects. ■ Hence, not only this, but perhaps every
other national Goremment, had delegated to it
an ualimited control over the persons and proper-
ty of the nation.
It might, by the express power itiven to it of
raising armies, convert every citizen into a sol-
dier, and, bv a single atsessment of a tax, it might
command the use of all the properly in the country.
The power to raise armies and taxes was Km-
ited in its exercise by nothing but the discretion
of the Legislature, under the direction of its pru-
dence, wisdom, and virtue. Was there no secu-
rity a^iast a wanton abuse of these enormous
powers? Yes, it was to be hoped that the peo-
ple, in electing the members of this House, and
the States in choosing those of tbe other, would
not select characters, who, regardless of the pub-
lic good, would wantonly impose on tbeii consii-
luents unnecessarv burdens. It would be an addi-
tional security, taat the interests of tbe rulers
were inseparably connected with those of the
people; that they could impose no burdens in
which themselves did not equally participate.
But, should all these guards be iasufficient was
there no dependaace to be olaced in tbe Pbesi-
dbnTT — the man elected ay a re&ned process,
pre-eminent in fame and virtue, as in raak 1 Was
there do security in the watchfal guardianship of
rach a character? Responsible by everjrthing
deaiaDd valuable toman — his reputation, bis o —
and hja fellow-citizens' happiness — was there
well-founded reliance on all these conniderations,
for security aipiast oppression? If not, we had
not the requisite materials by which lo adminis-
ter a Republican Qovernmeat, and the project
migbE be abandoned. After all, however, should
tbe unlimited powers he had meaiianed(Bad such
powers must always be unlimited) be wantonly
abused, was there no remedy? Yes, ia tbe good
sense and manly independent spirit of the people.
If intoleiable burdens were wantonly imposed;
if necessary to defeat the oppression, opposition
and insurrection would not only be authorized,
but become a dutr. And if any man could faon-
estlv lay his hand on his heart, and in sincerity
declare, that a compliance with any existing
Treaty was worth more than our Government,
our Constitution, our UaioD, and the liberty pro-
tected by them ) to that man he was ready to de-
clare, that opposition had become a duty. But, in
every instance of opposition, whether in defeat of
a Legislative act, or of a Treaty, the right of re-
sistance resulted not from the Constitution itself,
for it had declared no such lisbt; no CoosiitH'
lion could declare it. It existeiT in original prin-
ciples, and never could be exercised but by re-
sorting to them.
Qenllemea had spoken of the subject as if the
members of this House were tbe only Represen-
tatives of the people, as their only protectors
against the usurpations and oppressions of the
other departments of the Government. Who
then, he asked, were tbe Senators? Were they
unfeeling tyrants, whose interests were separated
from and opposed to those of the people? No.
Did they possess hereditary powers and honors?
No. Who as contemplated by the Constitution,
were they? Tbe most enlightened and the most
virtuous of our citizens. What was the source
fVom whence they derived their elevation ? From
the confidence of the people, and the free choice
of their electors. Who wltp those electors? Not
an ignorant herd, who could be cajoled, flattered,
and deceived — not even the body of enlightened
American citizens; but their legislators, men to
whom the real charactersof the candidates would ' -
be known. The^ did not possess their seats in
consequence of influence obtained by cajoling
and deceit, practised in obscure corners, where
tbe means of detection were difficult if not im-
practicable ; but they were selected from tbe most
conspicuous theatres, where their characters could
be viewed under every aspect, and by those most
capable of distinguishing the true from the false.
For what purposes were they elected ? To re-
present the most essential interests of their coun-
try ; as the guardians of the sovereigntv of tbe
Slates, ibe happiness of the people, end tneir lib-
erties. Who, as contemplated by the Gonsiita-
tuiion, was the PnBBinENT? The man elected,
by means intended to exclude the operation of
faction and ambition, as the one best entitled to
public confidence and esteem. And was no con-
fidence to be reposed in such characters, thus
elected? Might it not, to say no more, De at
least doubtful, whether the treating power misht
not be as safely intrusted in such bands exclu-
sively, as with the participation and under tbe
control of the more numerous branch of the Le-
gislature, elected in small districts, assailed hf
party and faction, and exposed to foreign in-
fluence and intrigue? Whatever merits tai.i, as
an original question, might possess, the people had
decided their will. To tbe Pbesidbht and Sen-
ate they had given powers to make Trealiea;they
bad given no snch power* to tbe Hoiue.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
pE.]
TVeofy vHK Great Britain.
[Mahcb, 1798.
It was Dol, in hUopinioa, pTO|>er,whca investi-
gating the Constitutional (fuestioD of ihe extent
of a particular power, and m wbai hands it was
deposited, to divert the aCceatioa to a .possible
abuse of that power. Should il become a ques-
tion whether Congress was by the CunstitutioD
authorized to raise armies, and ihe extent to
which the power might be exercised, it would he
unfair and improper to divert the attention from
the inqutrj of what was the truth, to the abuses
which might result from the exercise of the
power. To stale that if such power existed, every
citizen might, by the wanton abuse of it, be de-
graded from his rank, and snbiected to the despo-
tism of military discipline: To show that armies
might be employed as xht iostrumealsof destroy-
ing liberty: To picture your country as strewed
with human carcases, and stained with huma,n
blood by their means. What would this be but
to substitute prejudices instead of arguments?
StilL however, it would remain true, that there
should be some means of calling forth the whole
force of .the community for its security and de-
fence. It would still remain true, that the power
of Congress to raise armies was only limited by
its discretion, under the direction of wisdom and
patriotism. The same observations, changing
their relations, might with equal justness be ap-
plied to the Treaty-making power.' To be^ and
to continue a nation, required, on these subjects,
unlimited confidence in the delegation of the ne-
cessary powers. The people had granted them,
and provided against their abuse such guards as
their wisdom dictated.
The genllemttn from Virginia [Mr. MADiaoN]
had stated five different constructions which pos-
sibly might be given to the Constitution on this
subject. Three of which, and for none of them
to Mr. S.'s knowledge had any man ever contend-
ed, the gentleman had proved to be unfounded.
The fourth thai' which he had eiven to the Con-
Blitulion, if admitted, aod it should be abused,
might Droduce mischievous efiecLs. Was not this
true of^all the ffreat and essential powers of Go-
vernment? If the controlling inSuence of this
House was added, would the power be less 1 A ::d
i^ under these circumstances, abused, would the
injury be more tolerable? In short, was not this
a Kind of argument infinitely more (ending to the
production of prejudice, than to the discovery of
truth 7
The gentleman has really given no decisive
opinion what was the true construction. He had,
however, seemed to incline to a belief that to the
stipulations of a Treaty relative to any subject
comraiited to (he control of the Legislature, to
give them validity. Legislative co-operation was
necessary. Of consequence, if this was withheld,
the operation of the Treaty would be defeated.
That it was at the will, and within the discretion,
of the Legislature, to withhold such co-operation,
and of course the House migbi control and defeat
the solemn engagements of the PREBinEHT and
Senate.
The gentleman who had sug^sted this opinion
iras well known to the Committee, and through-
out America. Mr. S. could not hut observe that
it was perfectly unaccountable to his mind, that
that gentleman had yet to form an opinion to
wh6m was delegated (bat power, the nature, ex-
tent, and efiects of which be had so strongly and
perspicuously detailed. The capacity of that gen-
tleman's mind, long exercised on political sub-
jects; his known caution and prudence, would
authorize a request that he or his friends would
explain bow i( was possible, if such as he states
should have been the intention of those who fram-
ed the Constitution, that the true meaning should
not have been expressed in the instrument t Thai
when the gentleman went from the Assemhly
which framed the Constitution, immediately af-
terwards, to one of (hose which ratified it, he
should have admitted an opposite constructibn 1
As Mr. S. would undertake, ny and by, to prove
that, in the Convention of Virginia, he did admit
the very construction for rihich we now contended.
He would (ake the libertv further to inquitej how
it happened, that, if such was really the mten-
tion of the instrument, that such was the mean-
ing of the people, no man had heard of it until the
discovery was produced by the British Treaty 7
Strange national intention, unknown for yean to
every individual !
As the gentleman had been pleased to dwell on
the idea of a co-operation between the powers of
the Oovernment, he would take the liberty to
state, what had been ably explained by other gen-
tlemen, (hat (he power of making Treaties was
wholly differen( from that of making ordinary
lawt:; originating from different motives; pro-
ducing different effects, and operating to a diner-
enl extent. In all (hose particulars, the difference
had been perfectly understood. For instaJice, the
ordinary legal protection of property, and the pun-
ishment of its violation, could never be extended
beyond your own jurisdiction j but, by Treaty,
the same protection could be extended within
the jurisdiction of a foreign Qorernmeot. You
coufd not leeisla(e an adjustment of disputes, nor
a peace with another country ; but, by Treaty,
both might he effected. Your laws, in no in-
stance, could operate except in your own juris-
diction, and on your own citizens. By Treaty,
an operation was given to stipulations witbtn the
jurisdiction of both the contracting parties.
It had been said that Treaties could not ope-
rate on those subjects which were coosigoed to
Legislative control If this be true, said he, bow
impotent in this respect is the power of the Go-
vernment! What, then, permit me to inquire,
can the power of treating effect 7 I will tell you
what i( cannot do ; i( can make no alliances, be-
cause any s(ipulations for offensive or defensive
operations, will infringe on the Legislative power
of declaring war, laying taxes, or raising armies,
or all of them. No Treaty of Peace can probably
be made, which will not either ascertain bounda-
ries, stipulate privileges to aliens, the payment of
money, or a cession of a territory, and certainly
no Treaty of Commerce can be made.
Was it not strange, that, to this late hour, tt
should have been delayed, and that now, *ll at
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MucB, 179S.J
HISTOKY OP CONGRESS.
TVaol; leiih Ortai Britain.
[H. opR.
once, it Ehotild h>Te b«en discoreie^ that no
power wns delegated to cof person, to regulate
out foreign relations? That, although a power
was granted to the Pbkbidbnt and Senate to form
Treaties, that ^et there were EUch.Teserrattons
and reBtrictioDs, that there remained nothing on
which this nower could operate 1 Or was it tine,
that thispower was competent to treat with every
GoTernment oo earth bot that of Great Britain?
Miglit he not be permitted further to inquire, if
this Treaty had been formed with any other Pow-
er, with ttke precise stipulationsi it now contained,
whether there ever would hare existed this donbt
of constitutionality 1
We^ad, he said, entered intn Treaties of Com-
meroe with many nMions; we had farmed an al-
liance, and entered into a guarantee with France;
we had given CiMiMilar power, including judicial
authority 4o the citbeens of tt^t country, within
our own jurisdiction ; we had defined piracies.
and provided for their ponishment; we had re-
moved the dimbilities of alienage ; we had giant-
sd sulMidies, and ceded territory. AU this, and
much mow, we had done, while the powers of the
Oovemment remained unquestioned, and none
even thought that they requited Legltktive eo-
opeiation. Treaties, suoh as ibote, could, with-
out opposition, and oy nnaoimous consent, be ra-
tified, and considered by force of sach ratification,
as supreme laws ; but simitar stipulations with
Great Britain were clearly perceived to be un-
constitutional, and PnEatDENT, Envoy, and Se-
nate, were denounced for their respective tigency,
as infractors of the Const^ution.
The objection, which he had just answered,
had been brought forward by a geniteman from
PcnnsylvBDia, [Mr. Galiutin,] with another
nearly allied to it, if not resting on precisely the
same foundation: that whatever stipulation in a
Treaty required Legislative provision, or repealed
a Uw, did not become a supreme law until it bad
received Legislative sanction. There was no li-
mitation expressed in the Cotiatitution on which to
foDnd either of those objections. If we claimed
the power which the objections imported, the
claim must rest on conilruction and implication
alone. Indeed, the whole reasoning of all the
gentlemen seemed to him to be capable of being
exprcKsed in a few words: The PsEaiDEnT and
Senate, in the ^ole and uncontrolled exercise of the
Treaty-making power, may sacrifice the most
important interests of the people. The House of
Repmeniatives is more worthy the public confi-
dence; andj therefore, by onr influence, we will
pre Tent the abose of power.
The gentleman, to prove his position, slated,
'bat the power of treating in Great Britain and
the United Slates is precisely the same. He then
t^ a passage from Judge Bladatone, " that ihi
sovereign power of tieating with foreign nations
WIS veite« in the person of the King, and thai
*ny canttaet he eogsged in, no power in the King-
"Ipio could delay, resist, or aunol.'* At the same
time, he said, that certain Treaties, such as ''
of subsidy and commerce, were not binding
'aiiSed by Parliament, Now, both these could
4th CoN.~18
not be true ; for it was no less them a direct eaa-
tmdiction in terms, to say, that there was no
power in the nation which could delay, resist, or
anoul the contracts of the Kingj and at the same
time to say, there was a power in the nation, the
Parliament^ which could delay, resist, and annul
those contracts. Both the assertions could not
be true. He was willing, however, to allow that
the Treaties which the gentleman bad mentioned,
were not the supreme laws of that country, until
approved by the Legislature. He had already
id, that different coantries had provided diSer-
t guards against the abuse of this power. But
why attempt to divert our attention from a con-
struction of our own Constitution, to the vague,
uncertain eustoms and practices of other couu-
' *es 1 Why compare the PnaBiDBHT and Senate
the King of Great Britain f In what was there
'esemblance ? In nothing. Why, then, perplex
the sabiecl by the introduetiou of irrelative mat-
ter 1 Was there perceived an interest in a diver-
sion from the only legitimate source of informa-
'tioD, the declared will of t^e peof^ 7 If we found
It there the power we claimed, we could exer-
w it only by usurpation.
Why did not gentleman extend their reasoning
further? Where, in point of principle, was the dii-
ference bitween restraining aod controlling the
Legislative power? The injury may be as great
in the one iostance as in the other ; nor is there
any more foundation for denying to the Pbesi-
DENT and Senate the power in the one case than
in the other, from any words or expressions in the >
CoBstitutioD. I
If the gentlemen are right in their construction,
if this was the understanding of the people at the
time they deKberated on and ratified the Consti-
tution, the power of the Prsbidbht and 8enat«
of malitDg Treaties, which then created the moat
serious deliberation and alarming appreheosiona.
was. the most innocent thing in natnre. It could
bind the essential interests of the nation in no-
thing. Could any man reallv believe that the
agitation which a discussion of this subject occa-
sioned, more, perhapsj than an^ other in the Coo-
atilotion, eould have tor its object onlv the power
of the Pbesident and Senate, in which two-ihitdt
of the latter must concur, to digest schemes of
Treaties to be laid before the Legislature fot its
approbation ?
The gentleman fiom New York [Mr. Havbns]
aod the gentleman Irom Virginia [Mr. Giles]
had asserted the power of the Legislature to re-
peal Treaties ; w&enever the wisdom of Congress
should concur in opiniui with those gentlemen,
we. should then cease to contend respeetiag the
construction of the Constitution on tni^ subject.
For whenever our nation should, in defiance of
every principle oj morality and comnuio .hmesty,
by its practice, establish its right to prostrate na-
tional honor, by spordogwith the puolic faith, no
nation would submit to be coolamioaled by a
connexion with one which avowed the right of
violating its faith by the infraction of solemn
Treaties.
On all subjects of this sort, the real inquiry was
.dbyGoogle
083,
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
a Of R.]
7V«a(y mth Oreat Britain.
[Uarcb, iTgs.
and ooghl to be, what was tfaa iatentioii of tbe
partiM to this imtrumenl 1 Hence a brief view
of Mme intereiling occurrences, which look place
U the adoption of the Government, would not be
impentDent, but might be uaeAil.
A eotemporaneoDs esposicion of any inetra-
menL and especially bjr those who were ageq^s in
its fabrication, bad been allowed, and was, in fact,
among the best guides to finding its true meaning.
Gentleman who had been members of the Con-
T«niion, and unfriendly' to the Constitution, with
an intention of preventing its adoption, had stated
to their constituents that the power of making
Treaties, ai confided to the pREaiOEHT and 8e-
OMBj was as exteosiTe as was now contended for.
Their intention could hare been no other than to
alarm the peojide with the dangerous extent, and
what would he the pernicious exercise of ihi
power. If this charge was unjust and groundless,
what would .have been the conduct of the friends
of that instrument 1 They would- have proved
the charge to have been mauciousand' ill-founded.
They would have shown that the Constitution
was not llaUe to such an objection ; that it aouM
bear do such construction. They would, in the
tangnage of novel discovery, hare said, that every
subject of legislation was an exception from the
power of making Treaties; and thus they would
hare proved to the world, that the sa^s of our
flonnlry had devised and offered to their eniight-
cned countrymen a scheme of Qorernmeni, dea-
titate, by an express delegation, of the es;ientia.l
-attribute of adjusting differences with other na-
tions, and of agreeing with them on the teiias ol
amicable intercourse. But they did no such thing :
tltey admitted the power, proved the necessity of
it, aitd contended that it would be safe in ptacUce.
L«t me here, said he. appeal to any unprejudiced
man, if he can possibly believe that the enemies
of the Constitution could have made the char^
against it, and that its friends would have admit'
t^ the truth of it, on the hypotheiit that it was
nnfoonded andfalsel They certainly knew what
they had BO recently inteuded,and having apposite
objects in view, which excited their strongest
wishes, it was impossible they should agree in
imposing on the people a false end unwarmutable
eonsimetion. So far he had extended his reflec-
tions as resulting A-om the conduct of those who
formed the Oonstilutiou ; a conduct from which,
be Battered himself, there flowed demooE (ration
that the power of niaking Treaties was as exten-
sive as was thal'which was now contended for;
This being the concurrence of men who could
not have united to deceive, with regard to which
it was impossible theyshould be mistaken, formed
a gnide for our opinion, which could not mislead,
which no degree of stupidity could mistake, nor
the most .ingenious sophistry successfully mis-
represent.
So much he had .thought proper to say, as re-
spected the construction given to this part of the
iBHtrumenI by those who formed, who could not
mistake, and who were under no temptalioD to
misrepresent it. It might be necessary, in the
next i^BM, to inquire tinder what opinions it was
adopted ; and if we perceired a correspoudenoe
of construction between those who ftwrned and
those who received and approvied, we might then
Burdy derive all reasonable satisfaction that we
had' dii^cDvered the truth. Here he believed that
it might be asserted, without any danger of con-
tiadictioo, that in the State Conventions it was,
on one hand, affirmed that the Phiscdent and
Senale would, by ihe Constitution, have power to
form Treaties on any subject in which the Uni-
ted States and a foreign nation had a common
interest; and that Treaties so formed, without
any other aid or circumstance whatever, wonld
thereby become the supreme law of tbe land ;, and
that the exercise of this power was not so guarded
as to render it safe to the public interests. On the
other hand, it was admitted thai such was the
extent of the power, and it was attempted, at least,
to be proved that it was so guarded that danger
could not reasonably be apprehended from its ex-
ercise. It would be too tedious, and well might be
thought unnecessary, to consult all the materials
wbicn might be within our reach on this subject;
but he dared to appeal to the recollection of every
gentleman who was in a situatian to know the
factSf for the correctness of the statement which
he had made ; and he would read some few ex*
tracts from ihe debates of the Convention of Vir-
ginia, which would probably be, on this occasion,
For many reasons, admitted as the best authority;
and jmrticularly, because the subject there was
examined by eminent talents, atid'by minute and
scrupulous investigation.
Mr. Sedowice read the following passages from
the third volume of the ''Debatesand Proceedings
of the Convention of Virginia." From the speech
of Mr. George Mason, who was as well a member
of the Federal Convention, as of that of Virginia:
"That he thought this a moatduiKeransdause. By
the CoDfedOTation,nine States were mil i mwij tOMncoj
in a 7'nnty : this secured justice and moderqtioit. Bii
principal fear, however, was not that five, but Mven
DtBtei, a bare majcni^, would make Treaties to bind
the Union."
That the spprotialion of the President, who had no
local views, being slecled bj no particular Btate,butthe
'e at large, was an additions) socuritj."
eheckon the principles which had been mentioned,
and which, be had already sbown, would extend
to some of the stipulations of every Trealjr which
could be formed, it was utterly imjiossible it should
"It have been mentioned and relied oo.
From a speecli of Mr. Maxuson he read :
"Iliat he thought it sstMUihing that geuUemen
should think that a Treaty ntold be ^l with aurprise,
or that tbreign uatianE Bbould be aolieilaua to get a
Treaty ratified by tbe Scnalon of a few StalM ; Hut
should the President ■unuooii oalj a Aw States, he
would, tor so atrocious a thing, be impeached."
From the speech of another member, Mr.
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5S5
HI9TORT OF CONGBESS.
Marob, 1796.]
TVaofy vrith Qrtat Brilam.
"That if tw»-ihinl( of • qaonun f>«nU b« unpoi*-
•nd to make a Tna^, thej mi^l nlinqoMk and alien-
ate leniiarial ligtila, and our moat Taluable conuneroial
adTBBtagea. In dioR, ihaiild anytfaiug ba left it would
be because the PreaiilcDt and Seoaton wen plaaaed to
ajiniit it."
[How, Mr. S. Lsked, coold thU be Iru«, if the
doclfioe now laid dowo, in support of ihia motion,
wiB well founded f\ .
" The power of making Treatiea, ill gnarded aa it is,
•ilended fiuther then it did in any ooantiy in the
warld. Treatiea wan to ha>i mora faree here than in
any part of Chriatendom."
From Mr. M&dison'b speech he read:
" Are not Tieatiea the law of the land in England 1
f will Teler Ton to a book which i* in eieiy man's hand,
'Blackatone a CommentariM ;' it will inform you. that
Treatiea made by the King are to be the supreme law
of the land; if thej are to have any efficacy Uiey muat
be the law of the land. They are bo ia every wuntry."
From GoT»Qor Randolph :
" It ia nid, there ii no limitation of Treatiea. 1 defy
tbe wiadom of that gentleman to ihow bow they ought
to be limited."
From Mr. Oeorge Nicholas:
" Ha,ve we not aeen, in Amarlca, how Treatje* are
violated, though they are in all countriea considered aa
the eapieme law of the landl"
That Mr. Mason, speaking of this power, had'
■' It iatrne it ip one of the greatenlii'ts of sovereignty,
and therefore ought to be moat strongly gDarded. ' The
OeMion of such power, without eucb chccka and guard*.
cannot be Juatined ; yet I acknowledge such a power
muat reet aomewhere; It ia so in all Governmenta. If,
in the course of an uniucceuAil war, we should becom-
pelled to give up part of oar territories or undergo sub-
jugation, if the General GoTemtnent could not make a
Trea^ to give up such a part, for Ihf preservation of
the TMidae, the Government itself, and conaequently the
righlaofthc people must fall. Such a power must, there-
tan, rest some where. For my own pan, 1 never heard
it denied that auch a power miut be vested in the Go-
Tamment. Our complaint ia, that i( ia not sufficiently
guardad, and that >t reqairaa mnehmore solemnity and
eaution Aan are dehneatad in that ^stem."
[Scrsin^, Mr. S. said, thai lhi» tfentleman did
not discoTCT, or was not told, that Treaties before
thef should become 1hw!<, musi receire Legislaliye
" T'hare are other things which (he King fmeaning
the King of Great Britain] cannot do, which may be
done by (he President and Senate in this case. Could
the King, by his prerogative, enable foreign subjects b
porrhaae lands, and have an hereditary, indafossiblt
Will any gentleman say that they [the Presi-
ie] may not make a Treaty, whereb
sabjecta of France. England, and other Powers,
hereby tfai
bay what landa they pit
Prcaident and Senate can make any Treaty whatao-
ever. We wish not la reftue, but to guard this pewv,
as it ia done in England." " We wish an explicit de-
claration in tbat paper, tiiat the power which can make
alber Treaties, cannot, without the cooaent of the na-
Bational Legialatur«, diaMemU
the emrare. The 8«Mte akiw ought nM to haw iMf
From the speech of Mr. GorUn, who was in
kvoT of tbe CoDstitution ;
"If there be eny aound put in the Conatitntion it ia
this clause. The Repreaentativei are excluded from
interposing in making Treatiea, because large popular
asaemUiss arc very improper to transact auch hutinesa,
from the impoaalbility of their acting wi^ loffident
aecrecy, deapateb, and decision, which can only beibnnd
small bodies : and because sncfa numeitMU bodieB
I always subject to tactiou and party animoaitiea.
That it would be dangerous to give Uits power to the
PreaideDt akme, aa the conceawon of such a power (o
one individual ia repogikanl to Republican principlea.
It is therefore given to the President naA Senate (who
represent the States in their individual capacities) con-
jointly. In this it diflers Irom every Government we
know. II steers with admirable dexterity between the
vo extremes, neither leaving it to (he Executive, as in
Loat other Governmenta, nor to the Legislative, which
would too much retard such negotiations."
That another member of the Cauveniion, (Mr.
Henry,) aAer contrnding that the CoDstitution
ought to be amended, so as to s^uard against the
abuse of the Treaty-making power, by requiriim
coiiseal of the HoQse, concluded his ohseira-
18 by saying;
That when thar consent ia neceasary, there will
"he a certainty of attending (o the public interesta."
That the debate on this interesting subject was,
I thnt CnnvenlioD, concluded by a genilemaa of
tis House, [Mr. Madison,] not by insisting on
iBl seciirily, which gentlemen had now discover-
ed the CouaiiiutioLi jiruvided against tbe abuse of
this power. He had staled;
" That the power was precisely in the new ConatitU-
in us it was m the Confederation.' ,
He had slated the checks which the Conetitu-
on had in fact provided, but it had not then
occtirred to him that tbe consent of this House
as among tbem.
He also read the amendment which the Con-
Tenllon of Virginia proposed to (he Coaatitulion ;
" That no commercial Treaty shall be rttifled wilhont
..» concnrrence of two-thirds of the whole number of
tfae Senate ; and no Treaty ceding, oontrOlling, leatrtin-
ing, or au^nding the territorial rights or claims of the
United States or an; of them, or their or any of their
righla or daimi to flahing in the American aeaa, or navi-
gating the American rivers, shall be made bat in rsaos of
the moat argent neceasi^ ; nor shall any auch Treaty
be ratified, without the coaeurrence of Ihree-foarlha of
the whole number of the members of both Houaaa
reepactively."
Mr. Sedgwick said, that it waa manifest, be-
yond all doubt, from that araendment, that the
CoDTention of that State supposed, thai ihe Con-
stitution aa it then stood unamended, delegated to
the Prebideht and Senate, and to the exclusion
of the House, the whole power of making and ta-
tifyiog Treaties, with all iti consequences and
He had slated, that the teal inquiry was, what
opinion was entertained on this subject by those
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
I.OPR.]
TYetUy mih firwt Britain.
[MA«oB,17e6.
trtio ratified ihe CoDBttlution. If that opinion
could be disco7ered, witb honest miods it must be
conclusive □□- ihe present debate. He bad sbawn
-what Dpioion was enlertained by VirgiuiB; what
power she meant to delegate, ana to whoio. That
this opiuioD remajued from that time until she
proposed her late vmendmeDts, unaltered, appear-
ed irom the amendments themselves. That State
then, and her Representatives here, who had ex-
pressed themselTeti, differed ia cpinioD. He did
not mention Virginia with intention, uf producing
any unpleasant sensation. He was willioK to allow
that she was great, wlsie, intetligeBt. enlightened,
and, if gentlemen pleased, moral. Her opinioti
deiiTed additional authority from her respectabili-
ty. It was not Virginia alone, but he was persuad-
ed every other State had given preciselv the same
construction. That the Treaty^naking power
with all il* electa and consequence, wat toleSy imd
ejxlu»ively m (Ae PiiEaiDEKT and Senate. And
he would dare to challenge genilemen to produce
a solitary instance of its being adopted under any
Mtier idea. Indeed the agitation which was at that
Hme produced, would of all things be the most
ridieulpui, if any of the other constructions were
true. If the power waschecked as was now cou'
tended, it was impossible danger should be appre-
hended from its exercise ; it could indeed do nei-
Iher good not evil.
Here ihec, he said, we bad the evidence of those
who framed, ajid of those who received and ap-
proved the CoQSliiution. There was another
source of inquiry, which would confirm, i I it want'
ed confirmaiion. that construction for which he
liad contended. It was the construction which had
been practically given by those who bad admiois-
tered our Qovernnienl, from ihe commencement
of oar foreign relations, to the present session ; a
construction which hadbeenassnmed, admitted, or
acquiesced in, by- our National and State Govern-
ments, aod by every individual citizen, until they
received new light, by our having accommodated
onr causes of cuniention with Great Britain, and
eacaped the evils Vf\ih which we had been threat-
ened, from that source.
The association which preceded any express
contract between the Stales, was supposed to im-
ply an authority to form national cuiQpacts, im-
poaing national obligations, and pledging the pub-
lic faith. Hence our Treaty with France, which
preceded two years our national association, the
Confederation, had been supposed binding on us,
knd not only obliging us to the faithful perforra-
ance of our cTpreis enga^ments, but as drawing
after it undefined, unlimited, and perpetual obli-
gations of .gratitude. This seemed, so far as re-
apeet«d defined ohiigatioo!', to be a rational deduc-
tion, liam what is an inseparable attendant on
nalional associations, and without which a nation
would be destitute of one of the heal means of ite-
curing its happineii. and even existence.
To pursue, he said, the history of our country
on Ihia subject, in the oider of time, it would not
be pretended that, under the Confederation, the
powers of Congress to form " Treaties and Alli-
ances" were more extensive than those of the
PREStnBNT and Senate under the Constitution to
form " Treaties." The Legislative powers of the
nation,thenreBidingwitbtheseverklStates,wereBs
obstructivetotheoperation of TTeaiies{andei tend-
ed to all the objects which the National and State
Legislatures now comprehend) as the Congres-
sional Legislative can now be. Vet under the Con-
federation Treaties of Alliance.of Peace, of Com-
merce, were made ; nor until the present moment
has their obligations been denied, though they con-
tained stipulations, perhaps, on all the subjects to
which the treating power -could extend, no Le-
gislative provision had been thought necessary to
give ihem validity ; and he dared appeal to every
member of the Committee, that every enlightened
citizen had admitted their binding obligation as
supreme laws. ■ That the Treaty of Peace in par-
ticular, which controlled the most important
rights of sovereignty, arrested the hand ofjustice
in inflicting punishment for the bighe.'t crime
which a citizen could commit, treason, and stayed
proceedings io casesof confiscation, for forfeitures
which had been inciured, had always received this
construction. He would add, that it was well un-
derstood to be the opinion of that titbunal which
the Constitution had authorized topronounce th«
law, the Supreme Court, that the Treaty from its
own powers, repealed all antecedent laws which
stood in the way of its execution.
To proceed further on : Since the adoption of
the Constitution, the powers now denied, had been
constantly exercised with all the consequences
and effects now contended for, and, until tne pre-
sent moment, unquestioned. Peace Lad been con-
cluded, subsiilies granted, payment of money stipu-
lated, territorial rights discussed and decided on.
Treaties for those purposes had been ratified, not
by venal and corrupt majorities, but by virtuous
unanimity. Hence, from the moment we had be-
come a nation, under every form of our implied or
expressed association, the powers now denied had
been exercised, not only without question, but
with unqualified approbation.
There was one more point of light in which this
subject ought to be viewed. In the year 1769, it
was proposed to discriminate in the impoaition of
our Juiies, between the nations -with whom we
had, and those with whom we had not, Treaties
of Commerce. The author of (his proposition re-
newed the same in the year 1794. This was vit-
lually acknowledging the validity of the Treaties
which did exist and invitini those nations who
had not already, to form Commercial Treaties.
Something; more ihan this was done by the mo-
tions which some gentlemen of the minority
of the Senate are said to have made when this
vtiy Treaty was in discu.ssion. Their motions
recommended an accuiiimodatiou by Treaty of
all subsiitine difierecces between the two coun-
tries. It could not escape remark that these several
propositions and motions were supported, by all
that description of persons who now opposed the
Treaty.
It would not then be deemed impertinent to in-
quire, it waa worthy attention, what was imported
and admitted by this conduct and thoae prnpoti-
;dbvGoogle
539
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 17W.J
Tnaty vith Grtat Britmt.
[H. opR.
tioDsl They nivloubWdly implied a cODcenion
that the BobsutiDg Treaties Were of Talfdity ; why
elce shoulil th«v be considered as a mertlorioas
cause of ferofable diMrimisBiioaT They implied,
too, that there existed id this couotry a powei' to
treat on commercial relatioas, aod to adjust snb-
sistio^ difference*.
If without LeffialaiiTeaid(&nd they had receiv-
ed none) thoee Treaties wonld authorize the Le-
gislattire to deninge the commercial put^uits of
liie uaiioD, BDd enter into LegislatiTe hostility
with that naiioD with which we had the most ei-
teosive reUtioas, it must be from the competency
c^the Treaty-makinff power oa tbe printuplea on
which we Mutended. Strange again, he would
ny, it mast appear that the true eonstrudtioD of
the ConstitutioD, on this very important subject,
shoDld have escaped the penetration aad sagacity
of the author of those proposilioos, duringihe lime
of forming and ratifying the instrument, and his
wbote active public lif^ from those periods until
that of tbe publication of the British Treaty.
If, then. It was true, as he had endeavored to
pioTe, that by the power given by the Constitu-
tioa to tbe Pbesidbnt and Senate to make Trea-
ties, thay had an authority to the extent he had
sapposed with all its consequences and effects ; if
^ '' [> formed did in fact become supreme
disgrace and personal dishonor. They might re-
S[nire Legislauve pruvision to carry them into ef-
BCt ; but this neither implied nor authorized the
exercise of discretion, aa to refusal. The Consii-
tution he had had frequent occasions of BayiDe
prescribed a Cioverament of departments. Each
was intended to be furniEhed with the means of self-
preservation and defence. For this purpose it was
declared, that the Pdesidert should receive a
compensation to be ascertained by taw. Laws
were to be made by the Legislature, of which this
House was one brancb. To support tbe CoDstitn-
tioD each department must be enabled to perform
the functions assigned to it. To enable loe Bxe-
ctiiive Co do its duties the emnpensation must be
provided. It was then riecessary to the support
of the Coostitation, that tbe compensation should
be made. We have sworn to support the Conslitn-
tioa. The people by their Conelitution had solemn-
S engaged that whoever was tbe Pbesidbnt
oold receive a comMnaation. We bad been de-
puted to diaebarge tbe duties and engagements
which out coastitueDts had assumed. Under
these circumstances no man of common honesty
coold declare that we were at liberty to refnse all
provision.
The genttemao from Virginia [Mr. Madison]
had attempted to make a distinction between the
duties we Dad imposed on us by tbe ConstitutioD
ud sucb as were eDJoined by law. He coold per-
ceive DO foundatioD for any such distinction. Af-
ter the aalary of the Presidekt was aseertained
by law, it Bould not be paid without hb appropria-
tion ; wotild any one saybe was at liberty to with-
hold it 1 No mao, he presumed, would wish to risk
hi* tepotatioti by such aa ataertioii. For such
conduct instead of supporting would tend to sub-
vert, and wonld, if persisted in, annihilate the
CoDMitution. This wes_ undoubtedly one of the
most important of the public ooDtracts; but tbe
truth was, in fact, that we were bound to perform
all the public engagements. Tbe truth was that
ciur national association whs a compact of virtue.
To support the GoDstitutien it was necessary to
preserve public faith. To promote tbe public hap-
piness it was essential to. Aold sacred, aitd to per-
form, tliB ipublic engagements. In this were in-
cluded all engagements, whether expressed in the
form of Constituljoo, of laws, or of Treaties ; in
any way, indeed, in which the people had agreed
that (heir will and their duties might be expressed.
Mr. S. concluded by observiog, ibac he bad in-
teoded to have presented the subject in several
other important aspects, but he had already trea-
passed on the patience of tbe Committee. He
would, as the' time of adjournment was passed, '
suspend for the preaeni any further obseryatitma ;
and he hoped that all the grounds which he bad
' ' rcDpied would be taken by other gentla-
lucu, au as to supersede the necessity of trouUmg
tbe Commiiiee with any further obserratioDS ok
this subject.
MaafiH 14. — In Committee of the Whole on
Mr. Livinohtoh'b resolution :
Mr. SiMUEi. Ltuan said he rose only to make
few observations. He was o^aiost the lesoliH
.on now on the table, as involviDg a doctrine, in
his opinion, sot only inconsistent with the princt-
ples of tbe Constitution, but also inconsistent with
tbe laws of nations, la debating (he merits of this
resolution, an exceedingrly important abstract Con-
stitutional questioii had arisen^ viz : How far that
House had a right to exercise their Legislative
discretion arid judgment relative to carrying a
Treaty into effect. In order (o aDswer this ques-
tion, be would raise two premises. Aad, first, by
the Constitution, the Le^slative poweia of that
House, in co-operation with the other branches of
tbe L^islatnie, extend to all objects within the
reach of their sovereignty, excepting the reserva-
ticns to the distinct sovereignties of the several
States which compose the Union ; but beyond
those boundaries their powers could aot extend.
Secondly, there is, by the Cotistitution, attached
to the iJegislatnre a subotdinat* kind of power, of
a limited and ministerial, or £xeau(ive nature.
At|>reseBt, it did not occur to him that this sah-
ordiiiale power was to be. exercised i" ■■- -' — ''
city, excepting m two
: lM,forcall-
_„ a Convention under certain circumstances to
amend the Constitution ; and, 2dly, for carrying
into e&ct Treaties which are constitiitionally
made ; for these two purposes, the people, who ar«
tbe source of power, hod stripped that House of
all Legislative author itv, and tnade them only the
executors of theu will ; therefore, upon then
premises he answered, if a Treaty was uncotmi-
tutional, they had an undonbted right to exercise
a Le^slalive discretion abd judgnaent relative to
earrying it into operation, f«r they were sent there
OS tbe guardians of tbe rights of their fellow-eiti^
ew, aiid, for that purpose, ale ■worn to vayfott
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or. R J
TVtatf miih Qreat Britrnm.
[Marob, 1706.
th* CcwAinRion ; bat if the Treaty wu Constitti-
tioaal, they had not a right to exercise that dis-
cretion ; for, without their interTeDtioD, it becomes
the sopreme law of the land, Rnd virtuBllv repeals
all laws which are repuonant io it ; ana in that
it into complete execution ; for,-by the Conititu-
tkm, the power of making Treaties ts vested solely
asd eiclusivdy in the Executive deparimeDL In
'the former case, they have a right to exercise 9.
delibemtive or Legislative power, but nut in the
latter case ; they could there only exeirise a min-'
isterial or Eitcutiye power. So that herein, said
he, lies the true distinction, and it arises fram the
nature end principles of the Oonstitutioa. C>en-
tlemen wonM do well to recollect MiHer and De-
Mme upon the British Constituiion, when they
form a comparison of their ConstitntioD with the
OoBsiiiirtion of England, and to advert to one im-
portant circumstaDce, which is the source id a
considerable dissimilarity, specially at to the
power of making Treaties : The ConstitutioD of
this country is written, and the powei* of the sev-
erml departments tif QoTemment are clearly and
aiseurately defined ; but the Coustiiutioii of Bng-
land is made up of customs and precedents, the in-
fiMcnce of which has baen alternately nu^eot-
ing or decreasing from time immemorial, owingr
to « perpetual conflict between the Sovereigp and
the Hmuq of ComnatiH, the GoVernment being in
ita origin an absdate monarchy, and founded upon
oonquest; bnt th« spirit of ttiiat great nation, by
the subtlety and adroitness of their House of Com-
mons, who have been watchful of favorable janc-
tui«s, hat,«s it were, mirreptitiously deprived their
Sovereign of many of his loyal prerogatives. This
cheek upon his Treaty -rat king power was, among
others, an impoHant achievement.
In this country they had only a. right to exer-
cise a deliberative or Legislative power relative
to Trecities i^ich are unconstitutiooHl ; but ibey
ooolit only exercise a ministerial oi Executive
power relative to Treaties which are Constilo-
tionalg and in forming an opinion relative to the
aoBttkntionality or unconstitutionaliiy of a Trea-
ty, all they want were the Treaty and the Oon-
Btitutitm, and then, by comparing the two itistru-
BMkla t^ether, and upon that comperisoa alone,
form their judgment. From these premises it
OMiclDsivety foUows, that, as ihev have no occa-
■ioii, BO they have no right, to call upon the Su-
preme Executive for the papers in question. This
doctrine, he thought, necessarily resulted Dot only
from the principle* of their Constitution, hut also
from an iniporiant principle of the Law of Na-
tiOM> Cor all natioiM between whom there are
Mtatinf Treaties hare a kind of property lodrnd
fa the secret cttlmtet of each other, and do nation
MU, oonsittenlly with good faith, publish to the
VOtld the seeret nwotiatlons which led to form-
ing eidicr of those Treaties. To prove this pritt-
ei|^ a FecDrrence may he had to Paiey't Phi-
loMpby and VaiUft Law of Nations. This prin-
«iple (d the Law of Nations is predicated upon an
iOtpottant principle of the law of nature. Here,
Um», is no neeenity of rceurring " ~
thorities, for every sentiment of their nature en-
forced conviction, and, of consequence, is clothed
with bU the solemnity of moral obligation.
This principle of the law of nature is no less
than the law of self-preseivation,- as relative to
themselves, their nation, and all olber nations ;
for, whst would be the consequence if the reverse
of this doctrine was established as theLawofNa-
ticHis 1 The consequence would be pernicious and
destructive among the nations j it would be the
source of jealousies, qf Carthagenian faith, of w^
and bloodshed.
He had not the least doubt of the eonstilutioo-
ality of a Treaty, when the stipulations in it were
of such a nature as not tojespect objects of legis-
lation, but only objects which lay beyond the
bounds of their sovereignty^ for beyond tnoM lim-
its their laws could not extend as rules to regulate
the conduct of subjects of foreign Powers; and
ahbougli auuiti Kiipulations in a Treaty may rc-
.ipect objects which were within the reach of their
sovereignty, yet it may be in such XMBoer as to
be strictly Constitutional j for such stipulnlian*
may be not only pertineDt, but absolutely neces-
sary in forming the Treaty. This coilclusion, he
ibougbt, was the natural aitd necessary result (ri'a
fair and liberal construction of the principles of
the ConstitutioBi and especially of that [tara^fraBh
which vests the power of making Treaties in tlie
Supreme Executive, with the advice of the Se-
Mr. L. said he was seosiUe he had bees deliver-
ing an unpopular doctrine, but that he was deeply
impressed with its truth, its reality, and itsimpmrt-
ance; and that the oUigaiions of an oath had pre-
vented his silence on the ocoasion.
Mr. Balcwin said be had before expressed hii
opinion, in general terms, in lavor of this question.
It must have been observed that he had been for
several days noting the debate*, and preparing to
take part in them. He had intended to have in-
troduced the debate on Friday morning last, but
a singular incident prevented him, which he fdt
it to be bis duty to take this earliest opportunity
to stale to the House. Mr. B. then satd : About
five, minutes before I expected to rise on the ques-
tion, I was called out of the House by a person
then unknown to me, who said his name was Fkb-
LiNQuuvaEN, and whom I found to be a Senator
of the United States. At^er a number of inieiv
views, he observed, with great expressions of pain
and regret, that he was at last obliged to the im-
welcome office of delivering me that letter, which
I opened end found to be a challenge directed to
me from James Qdhn, who is also a Senator of
the Uuited States. The pretext for this transac-
tion wsL to extort from me some private letters
which I had received early in the session from a
number of my constituents, expressing their wish
that I would endeavor to prevent any thing beii^
done in Congress to validate the Mississippi Yazoo
Land Speculation before the meeting of tbe Stale
Legislature. Tbere was no complaint of any per^
soiul iadecorum or di«rBspect at all ; whether they
were actuated in their conduct solely bv interest
io Yaioo speculations, I will not preieiia to judge.
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mSTORT OF CONGBSSS.
M&KCB, 170a]
ZWofy ma Grtat BrUaih.
[H-otB.
The Terinl of a iraBaBOtkn of bo oM a, dmte it
that pwrticolBT momeot, vai to me ■ttrjnitiiig.
Not Slowing their degT«« of.rrimdon to thu qaes-
titm between the two Houiet, and not k&owiox
the cast of cbtneter bat of ona of them, I am leU
only to conjeetutB. It was so peetiliariy timed,
tna the professed objeot tdno of so pecufiu a dB'
tore, to laterrnpt the ehoBnels of conBdenee for
free cammunicatton between meaodmycoastita-
cretion. I consider it as in the disoTeti<Hi of the
House. Ur.B.Bl9oobMTTedtbathefeltkim»elf
der the necessity of onBg this as an apology fot
the apparent neglects of Friday, after the partica-
iar attention he had before appeared to pay la tlie
diseuRsioD ; and for his not being able to notiRe
any of the pnoeedius in the debate of Friday, be
had sappoaed he had lost the oppOTtnnity of offer-
ing his opiaioo, bat was glad to find the (taestioq
liM not been taken, as he was unwiUiilg to taikt
thia, or eTen a greater intomtption, to Drevei^t
Um from declaring his opiaion, as he had before
Mr. B. then began his rHnarkR
and obserred th^ from the oonne wiiieh the
buaiacae had taken, the subject seeined
thing and the diaeosaioa another. He begged
leave Ant to aoasid«r the qaestion, parity with a
view to re«ne aonte reniaAs which he had raade
when the question first prcBcnted itself from
singular enraope which one or two members have
thought proper to attempt to throw aboot them.
He did not then say that it was advisable to re-
quest ikeae papers of the Prbbidekt, ^ the nke
of publishing them; that pnhhshed they onght lo
be; tfant there were no secrets in OoTernineat
iow-*-days; and thai the dootviae of mysteries was
nploded.
The mistake, if it was merely a tnistake, most
hare arisen from not attending to his first obaBr-
▼atioB, which was nearly as* foUowi : that dkey
were obliged, at aay rate, to go into the sabjeei ;
die House had ordered the Committee of the
Whfde to poceed lo eonsider the Treaty, and the
petitions fromiheir feltow-eltiaens complaining;
of differciu parti of it{ the committee rnnst be
fotiaed, the sabjeot tahea ap, propaaitions upon it
... , result concluded on.
o take op
I, m««ly from
B inatranent ajid petitions, or to request any
uformation that might he thought Dsefal to the
discnnion, and not improper to be connnnaicated,
which might guard Uiem from error, and lead
thein to a proper resolL To this it was objected,
that iktte papers were secrete of the Executive
department, fte. In this connexion it was he
nade th« obserraticw alLnded to; that be hoped,
oa reflection, that objection wonld not appear to
hare so mncn wei^t ; that, since they md been
> free people, the different OoTernmeiits io this
eoDntry, and the different departmenisof Ooreni'
■neat, appeared to be under an ioereasing eonvic'
tion (wbieh, he thooght, had been much strength.
(Bad by axpehenee) that a rigid adhetanca in lh«
noMbe reoeiTad,and socae resul
The only qocsiion. then, wns, whether to U
ik« subject anexplained as it was, m««l]
(he inatrament and petitions, or to reques
old mysteriouc doctrines of Qoremmentai secreoy
was not necenary ; ibatj in place of it, it seemed
now to be believed that it waadMitafale, as &r as
possible, to have Qo vera mental regulations acconv-
panied with light and iofomiatioD,' and as full an
exhibition of the teasons on which they are found-
ed Bs the nature of ihem wiU permit. He had
almost brought his own mind to beliere that theoie
was but one limitation to the extent of this pt'uk-
oiple, and that was, that, while measures were m
the transaotioD, andin an unfinished state, it might,
at many times, be improper to diselose them.
Proofs conld not be wanting that these impres-
sions had such weight on the mind c^ the Pnaai-
DBNT that he persuaded hinwelf there was no da»-
Kr of their making an unfavorable impresaion on
I sentiments, qoalifled as the motion had baso
by the last ammdnieot. Ii was said, the Pnaas
DEXT would have pablithed (hese papers nauked,
il'there had not been an impropriety in it. There
■light be a diplomatic impropriety in disolosinc
the patliculHrs of a nesolialim unless some kiad
of occasion led to it — lilie an individual t*o fresif
disolosiag private letters ; bat when it vi
proofs are too renmikaUe oat U
first was, that the old Coc
that ihete wns 0eea3i0n.it Is aperfeetjnstij
from South OaniUaa [Mr.SNrmI
assertions. Hib
be noticed ; his
lonerass bad iini— ilmilij
.. oondoet of a member from Rhode lehm^
for improperly oommunJeUingBomaBiatMUwhi^
bad been intrusted to his ooafidenoe ; the seoond
was, that they now had B'tuk fi» ouating thait
Slaries. Let that gentleman hxA al the secret
imal of the old Con^ress,aBd see how it BOnt»-
unally ditninished till il waa beoome almaat n*-
thing; let him look over the United Suteis anal
see how many poblig bodies wbieb Bsedto delifc
berate in secret have now their duoni open; let
bim look over the conunnniaatiocu, of mete Gm>
cntive buaineas, from the pRBainaM t op thb Um-
Tan States, for these two or throe y^rs past; let
him read the tuIb of their own House, as it now
stands, on the snbjeet of clearing the gallery, anl
see how much it is narrowed from the role which
was in force for the first two ot three years — and
then lei him declare whether there is not sona
foundation- for the assettionB which he had M>
tempted to combat. He hoped he shoold be ta>-
cusnj for having detained the Commiltee by soma
repetition of wbat he had before said— it was tin
two uofavomUe attitudes.
conld not patiently see observattoas that appeared
bimao important, so weUfTounded.andsostricllf
applicable lo the question m debate, bunted fro^
silence, had been absorbed by a still mote impact-
ant direction which the disoussion had takan. Hn
shonld conclude ibis part of hi* observations, whick
be considered as properW the debate of the i|tia».
tion, by an ex|>resiion of his wish that ^tmtlemen
would reflect in what light they eKhibiied them-
selves, and what mast be the tendency of tbcir
ojrinioos, if they avowed thcnselves iko advars»-
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6^5
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R.]
TVeofy vitk 6reat Britaiit.
[H*Bca, 1706.
ries of his otwerrBtions, aa he had now explwned
ihem. He hnd hoped, vhen be fint made the
irikseivBtioQs, they had not been uselesi; thejrsull
hmd ffreat weight on hia own mind — he balie?ed
ther had on the miads of lome other memoers.
Mr. B. then proceeded to consider the ques-
tion in the form in which it is presented by the
discDssion. He was sensible of the disadTsntssc ,
any person must labor under, and particularl<r :
himself, in attempting to speak upon ii, after it
had be«n so long and so rety ably diuiiused. It
would be impossible for any person to propose to
himself a strict and regular plan of viewing the
subject without going over a great deal of the
grauDd that had oeen before taken by other gen-
tlemen. This, in the present stage of the buiincas,
would be so tedioua — s.Dd any attempt lo imiiroTe
upon thiuT statements would be to nim so nope-
lesB — that he shoulif decline the ta«k, with barNy
making the obserTation as an apology for a less
formal, though he hoped not useless, submission
of some Ibooghts which had occurred to him on
the subject
He said, it was remarkable that several gentle-
men rose with very different exprestions which
had been said to contain the subject in discussion.
It was certainly important to acree exactly on thai
point. The least variation in the point of depart-
■"-' ofsiglitof
orewouldsoondiverge till they w
M
tion. One gentleman bad slated that the question
was, whether this House should feel itself at liberty
to judge over the bends of PsEeiDEKT and Senate
on the subject of Treaties wilhont restraint; his
reasoning seemed to be built on that proposition.
Another gentleman had said that the question was,
whether the power of making Treaties was given
branches of the Legislature. He might mention
MTeral others, but ne called the attention of the
House CO the fact, to settle the point, that they
might at least agree what they were talking about.
The question, said he, on the table is, to request
«f the PnBBiDEHT papers respecting the Tieaiv;
the objection is, you ought not to ssk for the
S«rs, because you have no right to touch the
JMt. He begged leave then lo ask, with the
■tmoat candor and respect, whetherthe real ques-
tion now depending and brought into dispute by
this motion, is not whether all questions relating
lo this subject are not so definitely and perfectly
settled by the Constitution that there wan noihiag
(brthat House to deliberate upon on the ocoasion,
but only punctually to provide the funds to carry
the Treaty into effect. If it were allowed that there
might be any possible or eitraordinary oases on
ike Bubjecl of Treaty-making in which it might
arer be proper for that House to deliberate— «s,
for instancH, offensive Treaties which might bring
the country into a war — subsidies and support of
foreign armies — iotroduetiou of an established
religion from a foreign- country, or any other of
those acts whieh are by the Constitution prohi-
bited to Congress, but not pTdhibited to the makers
of Treaties ; if it were slWed that there migfit
possibly exist any such case, in which it tnigbt
ever be proper for Congress to delibente, it woold
seem tu be giving np the ground on which the
discussion of the present question has been placed ;
what agency the Hous^ should take, anii wbeo,
wonld be other questions. Whether a case wonid
probably occur once in a hundred years that would
warranttheHomeiatouehiDgthe subject, is of no
consequence to the debate. The right is denied
in the largest eensc. The assertion ii, that the
House his no right to delibetkte or to look into
any papers on the subject; that the people hare,
by the OossiitutioB, reposed the whole- of Aeir
eonSdence on this subject elsewhere ; that, to
attempt to deliberate upon it, or to ask for any pa-
pers respecting it, is treason and anarchy.
If this ground were once given up, he should be
infinitely less anxious what the House lirigbt do
in a.Rj particular case: these would rest on their
individual merits. For bis own p«t, he was by
no means disposed to carry the interference of the
House to any extreme ; but he could not express
his abhorrence of the doctrine in the extent to
which some gentlemen have carried it in this dis-
cussion. He begged leave to entreat gentlemen
again candidly lo review the few words in the
Constitotiott on which they reeled so much, and
to ask whether they appeared to be such labored
expressions as they supposed — so apt and definite
as to mean exactly what they contend for, and
nothing else, and whether ell the words may not
well be satisfied without, and stand more harmo-
niously connected with the other parts of the Con-
How much they intended lo incorpotkte witb
this power of Treaty-making, under cover of con-
tract with foreign nations, he had not heard any
one Biiempt to explain ; it seemed designed to
stand distinguished as an indefinite, uncontrolled
branch of the Government, the extent of whose
powers was to be known only by its own acts. Its
definition was to be, tb*t it was indefinite — like
what is said of some branches of the powers of
Parliament; that no one has pretended or ought
to prBtendto know their eitent; that iheyare not
to be submitted to the indgment of any one but
ihemielvei; and- that they never develope them
but by the particular exercise of them ; that they
were lo be left in this state, because, if they wore
defined, they might be eluded. However this
might be found, respecting a foreign Consiitniion,
it Is making a monster of our own. There was
not another part or lineament in it which appeared
to be in the same mould or proportion.
He then proceeded to observe, that though npon
these princif^es a definition of this power was not
lo be asked or expected, vet without doqbt it might
be permitted to conternplaie it in its display. From
the late exhibition which had be«n made of it in
the instrument which had been laid before the
House, it appeared to assume the right of repeal-
ing laws. He supposed it not M b« denied, that
in not less than four instances it had repealed laws
of the United States. He had not heard any rea-
son, assigned why it might not hare been ei tended
lo the Wide book, and repealed all the laws pacwd
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Trtaty vtih Great Britain.
fRo
before that time. It sppeitKd also to h%Te nar-
rowed ibe former ground of legiiklion. and taken
awajr the powers Mthe Legisnture, if he mistook
not. on five subjects on wbich proceeding had
been begun, bnt noi finished, at the preceding
session. ifthcComiDitteeaitUnflnislieoBasineas
were to make a full report, he supposed they mast
laf , that with respect to the bill for the regulation
of the sale of prizes ; the bilt for the suspeDsion of
commercial iaiercourte ; a retolntion for seqaes-
tiation of Public Debts; alio, for some cdmmer-
' eial dBcrimioations. and coDceroiDg naturRliza-
lioD, which thef toiud among the nnfinished
bnsiaess — they forbore to faring ibem to the view
of the House, inasmuch as Congress bad now no
LegislatiTe powers on those subjects. Soch a
report would at first strike with a degree of sur-
prise. Has there been a Federal Conrention t it
would be aaked. Hare amendmeoU to the Con-
stitution been recommended by two-thirds of each
branch of Congress, and adopted by three-fourths
of the Legislatures of the reapectiTe States 1 He
believed ne might say with safety that it was at
least a mode of taking away the LegidatiTC pow-
ers of the Federal GtoremiDent that bad not before
been moeb conlemplated, and ooght to be well
weighed befbt« it was recognised in the eiteni in
which it now presented itself
Mr. B. then proceeded to take another riew of
ifae subject, in wbich, be said, it woald be neees-
sary for him to request the Committee to go back
with him again to the quenioB, and take the other
alternatire, to lee whether it would not carry them
on to safer and better ground. He would begin it
by the assertion, that loose few words in the Con-
stitution OD this subject, ware not thoss a[M. pre-
cise,definite expressions, which irresistibly brought
upon them the meaning which be bad been above
considering. He said ii was not to disparage the
iasErumeat, to say that it had not definitely, and
with precision, Bbsolotely settled everything on
which it had spoke. He had sufficient evidence
to satisfy his own mind that it was not supposed
by the makers of it at the time, but that soiUe sub^
iecia were left a little ambiguous and uncertain.
I[ was a meat thing to get go many difficult sub-
jeeu definitely settled at once. If they eoald all
be agreed m, it would compact the Qovemraent.
The few that were left a little unsettled might,
without any great risk, be settled by practice or
by amendments in the progress of the Oovern-
ment He believed this subject of the riv^ pow-
traof legislation and Treaty was one of them; the
inbject ofthe Militia was another, and some ques-
tion respeetiog the Jadisiary another. When he
Teflected on the immeose difiiculties and dangers
of that trying occbbIod — the old Qovernment pros-
trated, and a chance whether a new one could he
agreed in — t he recollection reeailed to him nothiog
but thcmnst joyful sensMioiu thai so many things
had been so well settled, and th&i e>perieaee had
shown there was Tery liule difficulty or danger in
lettling the rest, la this part of Ine subject, he
Mid, lud he been earlier in the debate, he should
have gone over some of the ground on which
others had «ow gooe befw* him. He would not
detain the Houseamiaute by the reptilian of the
luminousandablediGcussion with which the House
had been for several days instructed. Can any
man, said he, alter the view» which have been
presented to us, doubt that there is room — that
there is a call for deliberation to .reconcile some
parts of the Constitution on this subject — to give
the greatest efiect to them all 1
For example, it is said :
A»T. I; " AH L^sletive power herein sfranted
ihall be vested in a Congress, consisting of a Senate
and House ol Representatives," i. e. every particle
of law-making power in the Conslilntion granted
shall be vested in a Congress, consisting of a Se-
nate and Hbuse of Representatives.
Aht. VI. Treaties are laws.
The power of making Treaties is a particle of
law-making power, granted by the Constitution ;
but it is' granted by Article ^ to the President
and two-thirds of the Senate.
And yet there is no doubt in these expressions.
They are so perfectly clear and definite, that tber«
is no call or even room to deliberate in commenc-
ing practice upon them.
And how, he asked, are such anestions between
the differelii constituent parts or the Government
to be settled, but for each branch to deliberate
with calmness and moderation in their own
nibere, and come to a mutual result? It mast in-
deed be a fearful, trembling loyally, that should
prevent so important a braneb of the Government
as that House from even presuming to deliberate
on the very important considerations which hare
been addressed to them, li was not a new case, or
peculiar to that House ; there can be no doubt bnt
it will be well received by the other branches oT
the Oovernment, with tbe exception of but few
individuals. The PnseiDEKT had not hesitated to
lend bock to them their laws when he thought
them agaiiut the Constitution, and they had given
way to his reasons. Tbe Judges had refused to
s repealed, and they passed anothe
nthe
Id this place, he bened leave to take notice of
some things which had been adduced in opposi-
tion to the opinions which he had expressed. A
gentleman from South Carolina had produced a
number of publications, and had alluded to a num-
ber of transactions by which he would make it
appear that it had been allowed, that the Treaty-
making power was as extensive as it is now con-
tended for. He qnoted a number of meeting and
party writings, and among the rest of his authori-
ties- he was constantly expecting to hear him
quote another, very common in the preaeni times,
tne toasts. The gentleman from Massachnsetts
had produced many others: the reasons of mem-
bers of the Convention, the proposed amendments
of several States, Ac. He was willing to allow
due force to that kind of reasoning, if^it has, in
fact, been the common view of the subject; if it is
the one that most Datnrally preseats itself on read-
ing thai part of the Constitncion, it would be a
good reason for calling up all their candor and
diHgeace on the oocasioili in oompaiing and n-
;dbvG00gle
fflSTOBY OF OONGRBS8.
540
H.OFR.]
Trtatf wtih Great Britam.
{Makch, 1790.
«onciliagit to the octierinTlsof tkeCoattilutioiii
but it WM not ot Kifficient Toroe to be r grouoil ol'
kbsolute certainly that the thing is definitely set-
tled, and that they oi^ht aot to deliberate upon it.
He thought more weight bad been allowed to thii
turn of argument then wu its due. It vA* not to
be forgoiteD, that probably even in inaking the
Conatilution, and in all that had been said upon
il since, [here never bad- been till now lo meDy
persons and so much time employed at once in
seATCbing and settling this single point. It may
be said to be the first solemn decision of the ques-
tion. The suability of the States wasnai so mtich
talked of or belJeTed, till iiwHi declared by the
Judges to be the meaning of the Constitution ; its
being a new end unexpected construction, was not
used as « weapon to excite irritation againit the
Judges i wh]^ ought it to be on this occasion 1 He
might mention sereral other particulars to the
same effect, but he wished as br as possibk' lo
avoid being tedious.
Mr. B. then uitdertook toaiata bis own view of
the subject, and what he thoufi:ht ought to be
done. Much, he said, dependea on the words
''make TreatietaBdanpreitielawof tbeland ;" as to
the words a«prcm« law of die land, he had not
moeh doubt for wtut purpose solely they were in-
ttodvced. Tbewordswercsalisfied.Bndhelboughi
most naturally, by not Buffering them to disturb
the balance of the Federal Consiitntioa, for that
is not the subject which the section where these
words are used is speaking of; but to consider
them as giving to the Treaty-makiag power the
Mme paramount authority orer the laws and Cod-
Mttutitms of the sereral Stales, that they give at
the same time to the Constitution and laws of the
United States. The words amwar- to b« Intro-
duced for the express purpose of making the Con-
stitutioa, laws, and Treaties, of the United Slates,
paramount to the Constitutions and laws of the
several Slates, and for no other purpose ; this is
all that the section appears to be speaking ot; it
satisfies the words, is the most obvious and natu-
ral meaning, and leaves the other parts of the
Constitution barmonious and undislnrbed. As to
the words "power to make Treaties," it was more
difficult to ascertain precisely what the Constitu-
tion meast to give by them. It had beei) argued
that from lh« nature of Qovernmental powers, the
Treaty-making power must be paramount, and
from tbe nature of contract it mast be paramount.
' "" ■ ' ■ It be
The truth is, the Treaty-making powi
what the Cotulitution has made it. He did not
hesitate to say, tbat tbe moat natural meaninE to
give these words, was to consider them as bor-
rowed from former use, and to give them the
meaning which they had always befdre given
tjiem. Gentlemen had said that nothing useful
aonld be deriv«d from English booksaud eiplana-
tkms.on these terms. This seemed to bim an un-
reastnable assetlioa. It migbt *b wyll be said,
that they could not use an ^iglish Dictionary to
aaeertain the meaningof words. In many .sciences,
mid he, there are definite and appropriate phrases
a* well as definite and umropriate words; and,
in&ct, botAa which are Dtetionwies of phrases,
ascertain the meaning of phrases wilb as mneh
precision as Dictionaries ascvctain the meaniDe of
words. It is exceedingly useful tbat it shonld be
so. When such a precise meaning is fixed to a
phrase, and publicly known, it is apt to remain a
long time exact, as it is frequestly employed, and ia
very useful as a medium of ceitainty. Manv in*
stanoes of this kind might be quoted, particularly
from Eezlisb books on law and Gtavecnmept. He
would observe further, these appropriate phrases
had been for their certainty in many instancea
transterred into our Cocstituiion, and theii meait-
ing must be maBifesiiy sought in those soarces as
in a Dictionary.. Oae remarkable iastaBSs occur-
red to him, and which, from ibe singularity of its
garb, would be very discefiuble ia the Coastiio-
tion— he meant the dafinilioit of ueaion in the
third section of tl^e third article of the Constitu-
tion. Tbe phrase is, levyiag wnr, adhering to
enemies, giving them aid and cemfort. These
are the very words of ihe £nglish books, which
have been so critically judged that they ue not
capable of (he least variation in tbeir meaning on
that iremeadous subject ; b«t Ibis meaoing is to
be sought from these sources ; he might uiention
several insiances, but it was uimeeessaty. He
thought the phrase, power to make Treaties, should
be ascertained in the same ouuuier ; and the £ng-
lish meaning, as it would natnrally be understood
at tbe time <>f miaking the Cimstittttioa, sbotdd be
affixed to it ; that it should be eonaidered as giv-
ioK to the PaEiiDEKT aad two-thirds of the 3eft>
ate Ihe same kind of power as tbe King of Kn^
land possewes on the aobjeet of Treaties, which it
iknoi
of Pariiament.
in several oases subject to the e<
{Ualined by the powers
wered by most vi<Aent
outcries, which sound to him very bold on ao ne^r
a subject: that tbe nationwill be undone, all con-
fidence in its engagenunls destroyed, and th«
country, without doubt, inTolved in a war abroad,
and anarchy at home. Thai was aa extraordinary
mode of discussing a cmious and perplexed qae»-
tion. It ma; be asked, why do a(A those things
England t Tbe Emgi it i* seen, has laid
e Treaty before Pamame
,k..
(his same Treaty before Parliament; they maj
probably now be discussing it. Some of their
Treaties wbioh were read tbe Olhar day appeared
to be carried by but a small vote ; suppose this
should now be lost in Parliament by a small vote,
iriiat reason to apprehend marc dreadful conse-
quences to this country than to thatl
He hoped, on the whole, ib.e House would be
prevailed on to eo coolly into the subjeci ; be had
no doubt but their good sense and moderation
would guide them safely and prevent ibem from
working mischief overeating confusion. Hebopied
thev would first requeat tbe paperson tbe subject;
he bad no doubt but that it would appear that this
was not now as new a question to all the branchea
of the Chivernment as il was to tbat House, kis
probable it presented ilself lo the Ministers who
made the Treaty. The English had been so much
in the habil of having an article introduced into
their Treetiffi reipeetmg ils being wibmitted to
;d by Google
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Mabcr, 1796.]
Treaty wiOt Gnat Britain.
Putiaiuent, that proUbly the English Hinialer
had the caution to Ksk our Minister, wheiber an
article ooght not to be ioirodueed about its beiog
nbmitted to Coogress, and what he considered
the powers of the PaEBiDBMT and Seaite on the
sabject. Il is recy probable infoimalion on this
sabject will be found among the jMpeni which it
ii proposed to request. Our Minister was a man
of so much good s«nse and ioformatiou, that,
without doubt, he had drawn some line on that
snbi«ct. Perhaps on looking at the papers they
might firid he had drawn it very properly, and be
perfectly satisBed not to disturb it ; but, that there
dionld IwTe been so long and formal opposition
to requesting the papers and looking at the sub-
ject, ha confessed, was what he had not expected.
Mr. Cooper rose to refer his colleague [Mr.
Havekb] who spoka last we«k, to the mode in
whiefi the laws and Constitution of the State of
Ne^NT York were explained away in the year 179S,
so as to depriTe the citizens of that State <rf the
r^t of EtiSrage, and to inquire whether that de-
cision was not considered by all thoughtful people
u erroneoos ; if so, whether the present reaaoD-
ing does not origioate from the same mistaken
nolioiu of power orer rkfhi 1 I think, said Mr. C,
it trill not be improper for the gentleman to recal
to mind those obtHretioos befoie be decide* on
this important argument
That geDtleman and several others have as-
serted on this floor, that a Treaty was not the
latr of the land nntil it was asaenttd to by that
HoaM ; if 10, it may be fair to inquire into its
merits, and have fhe papers before them. Let
them examine the matter. Purely if that princi-
ple be admitted, conld not the officers of the re-
venue with eqoaj propriety say to Congress, your
law is no law nntil our will is had — until we set
it in motion; or, the collectors of the taxes, your
law is of no validity until we take order to make
tke people pay their several quotas, or the people
at large say, we are the essence ef all law; it is
with OS all revenue, ell appro priations of money,
and all laws originate. Of what nse, they may
say, is your dry parchmenf? Altbouffh the House
of RepeesentBtives may have passed it, althonvh
the Senate mv.j have agreed to it, althonffh tbe
Prbbioekt may hare confirmed it, and although
it may have passed through each House with all
the graceful fomia necessary to dignify it as a law
oi the land; \ei, imless our wiu is bad in the
premiaes, it ha* no weight. But the question is,
e«D it be thought right for the people ; can it be
rwht for the collectors; would it be right for the
cAcer* of the revenue ; or was it rignt for that
Hooae to hold out to their constituted authorities
this sort of lan^nagel No, must be the answer.
The principle is subversive of all QoveromenL
Common sense revolts at the idea. In this way
the people can repeal laws by not obeying them;
and, peisapo, there may be cases when they hare
a revolntioBary right so to do ; and it was in that
eonfuaed stale of things that Congress might re-
peal Treaties by not filling that middle ground
Ibey are placed in by refusing to grant appronria-
lioaa; but both most be ocnsidcT^M in rebellion
a^inat the Goaatitution of the United States.
Why this new mode of explaining the ConstitQ>
lion 1 It had been understood from the school-boy
to the Senator according to icn true meaning.
Why. to gratify party rage, shall they attempt a
new explanation of this criterion of their happi-
ness 7 An observation, he xaidj fell from one of
the Representatives from Virginia in his speech
of last week, which he would take the liberty to
make one or two remarks on. He intimated that
he stood on high ground; he fett bold from the
propriety of his intentions ; he cared not for the
cant word of disorganizer, &c. That is right ;
gentlemen who attempt to remove the established
bound of the Consiitniion, ought to be bold ; they
ought to prepare for such oant words ; it was rea-
sonable tnev should expect them ; for, from an-
cient date the remover of land-marks was spoken
harshly of. All men, said he, must now >ee who
are willing: to be bound down by the letter of the
Constitution, and who are deairons to break
ihrongb all shackles. There 'are three causes
wliy this Treaty is so vastly disagreeable to soma
of the citizens m apart of the l^ion. One was,
it compels some of them to pay their just debts,
which they coniemf^ted evadiiig. Asto the idea
of its being a good or bod Treaty il is a mere pre-
tence, for the same opposition was made before it
appeared as afterwards. A second is, that they
have been at war with the nation this compel is
made with, and an improper influence a hation
now struggling for liberty has over their passions
asAraericansnasincraased their preiudices against
the British nation. Bni the third and most ra-
tional cause is, that as they are an old and power-
ful B "' ■ * ^ ■ - ■ - -■^>-
He felt their insults yet his wish
was to support their neutrality. Twenty years
hence, he said, their >voice would have a more
manly sound, and although they may feel now as
men will feel then, yet it would be imprudent for
them to act now as it would be proper for men to
act then. A wise man is governed by reason,
men of less understanding by experience ; but it
is the weak, indeed, that are governed by their
passions or feeling when the interest ot their
country is in question.
Much has been said about the British Constitu-
tion. He always understood that their charter
was nothing more than long usage, or practice
reduced to precedent; and from tnat uncertain
source their present unpleasant situation may have
arisen. But they had the book and page, and
surely the gofxl sense of the United States will
frown into atoms the man who shall attempt to
violate the sacred volume.
For his own ^l, he should oppose the resolu-
tion, because it mterfered with tae oath ha had
taken to suf^rt the Constitution of the United
States.
With these ohoervatioiM he should sit dowa
during the rest of the debate aa this question,
hoping the House would not *o for foi^t thora-
selvea, ud whatJhey omi to postari^, ai to.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-ofR.]
Trtaty iMtk Great Britain.
[Maiwb, 171W.
3 deei^jr tinged with luuipa-
adopt a resolulion
tion of power.
Mr. Holland B«id: ii is with great diffidence
I rise on ihia important subject, to uibimt Home
-coDsideraiioDB to this Commitiee. Aa ii has gow
become a Coasiitutioaal question, not with re-
epect to the meriis of the Treaty, bnt with respect
to the Const itutioDBl right of this Honse to re-
Z'M the Gxecutire to furnish as with papers
t related to the Treaty anteoedent to its rstifi-
To tbia it is objected that this House has no
discretionary power orer the Treaty, sod, on that
account, has nothing to do with the papers.
The question is not whetbei the Treaty is b
good or E«d Treaty, but it ia wbethoT we have a
right to exercise our judgments upon it. Then,
without any regard to the Treaty, we must be
Srerned by the rational construction of the fun-
mental principles of Qoverbmenl.
To illustrate which, it mar be necessary to ex-
amine what has been incideat to the different
kinds of GoTeniment, according lo the histories
of those nations governed by despotism, monarchs,
^or republics; and, from the Coustituiion of (be
United Stales as the funda|iieDtal maxims of the
Republic, draw Jbat construction that is most ra-
tional and natural.
It will also be proper to examine which of
those Governments preserves Uie' most power in
thepeople.
First, then, of mooarcby. Where has that
power been placed? Accordinff to the theory of
the Eo^ish Government it has been lodged in the
Sovereign, for it is there expressly said ^oor has it
been denied on this floor^l that the King is the
source of all power; and it is also expressly de-
clared that the King of Great Britain has sove-
reign and exclusive right to make Treaties. That,
when they are made, (hey cannot be impeded or
annulled by any existing power in the Kingdom.
This is the theory of thai Govemmeni. Bui what
has been the practieel 1 answer, the contrary
for it ever has been that, when a Treaty wai
made, that the same has been submitted to th<
Parliament for concurrence; and Parliament, il
tbev thought proper, admiiied and sometimes in-
nulled them, as in the Treaty of Utiecht, and
sundry iostaoces that the history of that nation
affords us. The English Government, therefoto,
is in practice what il is not in theory. By ihe
construction of the Constitution, as contended for,
iDKUQ controllable power lo twenty Senators
r thePREHiDBNT, our Government will be
practice what the English Goveromenl ij ___
theory. If this doctrine had been believed that
this WHS Ihe true construction of Ihe Const' '
previous and a^ the time of its adopliou,
the people of the United Stales have adopted it?
If they had bften informed that, by this instru-
meni, they were ceding more power to iwo-thirds
of the Senators and PaEaiDENT. than even coalc
be practised by the Kin; of Bngland, with his
lords spiritual and temporal, under that impres-
sion would they have ceded that power? Or, if
they had been told that the HotMe of Repn
and th
lalives, tinder this CkinatUution, had leas power
than was exercised by the House of Commoos
ia £ngland ; that they wouH be less able to se-
cure their liberties in this country against the ap-
proaches of prerogative, would they have, under
that belief, accepted of Ibis Constitution? I think,
Mr. Chairman, I may venture to say they would
pow«r been lodged 1
In this, as in the monarchy of England, it was,
theory, lodged in a Prince ; but the theorr,
-.in in inat despotic Govemmetitj never could
be carried into practice. According to Vatt^ in
the Treaty made by Francis 1., io the Treaty of
Madrid, on account of that Treaty encroaching
the fundamentals of their Govemmeut, it was
_._ aside. How was this done? It was not done
by Parliameol, for they had none; but the prin-
1 -eopie of the Kingdom -met together at Cog-
ad annulled it. Task again, Mr. Chairman,
if the people of this country possess less power
than the people of that despotic Government?
Or do they possess less power to withstand the
usurpations of Ihe Bieoulive^ on the sdbject of
Treaties, In their Representatives in Congress,
than has ever been maintained in the cramped si-
tuation of the people of England by the House
of Commons?
Why were Ihene rights ever maintained and
so scrupulously attended to bv the'people of those
countries? It was because they considered them
as the palladium of their remaining liberty — they,
therefore, would not let them go.
Then, witb respect toa Republic, the sovereign
power is in the people. It therefore follows that
whatever can be efiected by the people in those
countries can be done ber« — they being the source
Then, with regard to the Constitutioo, it must
be construed naturally and liberally in behalf of
the people. Not as giving all power that can be
given, but as retaining atlpowerand natural right
that ought to be retained. It would have been
extremely improper (o have wantonly discarded
natural privilege, or ceded more power than was
essential to Government ; nor was any more in-
tended to be given.
The Constitution, upon the face of it, shows
that this is the casc-^limils ate prescribed to
Governmental power. Not bo in the countries
spoken of, yet the people exercise it. But, it is
said OUT ConslilUlion has not retained this privi-
lege, and it is the law and the testimony, saored
volume, &c. The sacredness depends upon the
attention to the principles that procured its adop-
tion ; when that is contravened a violence is made
upon the rights of the people. If, by any con-
struction that can be given, these rights can be
preserved, it is wise to consider it as the better
opinion. Bui it is said to be impossible that this
power has been ceded, subject to no control, to
the PaaaiDEKT and two-thirds of the Senators
present ; that, whatever may be the practice in
olber countries, it will not apply to this; that
have no Constitution, And that we
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Mabcr, 1796.]
Treaty with Great Britain.
have, and mast be goreTDed by it. UorortuDate
eiicuouUBce! why adopted T Was it wantonly
to throw awar a privilege and natural right 1
Cettaiuly noti out the coacrary. It was to secure
oatural right, and lo establish a Republican form
of Govern ment.
How, then, can it be said by a gentleman from
Connecticut, [Mr. Smith,] that, as a private citi-
zen, he might exercise his judffinent ; bilt, as a
l^islatoT, OD the score of the Treaty, he would
not Ihink, althoosh he acknowledged, that it was
the duty of this Legislature to make laws to carry
it into eSect, but he had no discretion on the rea-
son of the law 1 A gentleman from ScAith Caro-
lioa [Mr. W. Smith] aho said, that we had no
discretion ; and, to prove the position, quoted
ibe prohibitory clause,' third article and section
in Itie ConstituIioD, which prevents legislat-
ing so far as relates to the dirainutioQ of the
lodges' salary. This clause was intended lo pre'
vent the destruction of a legal right ; the salary
beia^ fixed, it would be improper and unjust to
diminish during the time for which ha was elect-
ed. But there is a diSerenoe between the repul-
sive and the compulsive ; the latter being incom-
paiibte with the character of a legislator, and that
freedom of will incident lo legislation, and that
the man U the more or less a legislator in propor-
tion to the freedom of his will, and unintefrupted
exercise of hb judgment. But, in the casoof ap-
propriation, so far as relates to the discharge and
payment of the Judges' salary, as has been preri-
ously fixed by law, m this, as in ail Other caset
. of Legislative acts, a sound discrelicm should be
exercised. Il would be proper to examine the
slate of the Treasury with other external rela-
tions; and, if it should be found that the sum was
impracticable in the present state of things, they
most certainly could refrain. Nor woidd this h«'
> destruction, but only a temporary cuspension of .
the Judges' right, which frequently happens in
exigencies. It therefore clearly follows that, in
this case, diseretioQ asd judgment are at liberty,
and as much nnrestralnad as in any other act of
legislation.
to the eighth section, eighteenth clause of the
Conttitnlion, full power is given to Congress to
make all laws, ice.; and in the sixth clause of the
ninth article ii is expressly declared, that no mo-
ney shall be drawn from the Treasury but by law.
Why by lawT ,Why not by a decree of the Se-
nate ? It would have been much less expensive,
being done by them, and it would have prevented
the phenomenon of one hundred and four Repre-
sentatives of a free people, and spare them the
disagreeable dilemma of being obliged to legis-
late where they could not exercise will nor judg-
ment ; a situation extremely disagreeable In a
private capacity to ef crv person that has a tiac-
lure of independence ; tneo shall it be said or be-
lieved that tlie Representatives of the free people
of [be United Statciicaa be in this situation?
Natural right has power to think and act on all
subjects that present themselveB to our natural or
iQoial sense, except acting on those objects that
would be accompanied willt an expusa or implied
violence to the property and rights of others.
Nor has the adobtion ot the Constitution taken
from us this privilege. Then, with regard to this
the Treaty as it is laid before us,) is
lapni
t, rthe
cYhst
crs upon, or is it the property or right of others?
It belongs no more to the President and Senate
than to this branch of the Government. If it is
a property, it is tlie right of a nation, it is a pro-
perty in common, and, as such, we may clearly
exercise our judgment upon it, in order to dis-
cover Its merits or deformity ; and, if it be found
valuable, perpetaale, if an incumbrance, discard
.it. If Its' merits can be known, there can be no
doubt that it will obtain the support of this House
and of alt the people of the United States. But it
is said by a gentleman from South Carolina, [Mr.
Smith,] that the custom has always been to ad-
mit of the Treaties ; and that no attempt had
been made to prevent their operation till this so-
litary case, and from this infers, that this House
has no power to examine its merits ; that they
have unifbrmly passed laws lo carry them into
effect. All this may be true ; but this goes only
to show that tbeycorrespondedwiththose^reaties.
il does not show that this House had not the right
or power of repulsion. There is a difference be-
tween the having the power, and the act of exer-
cising the power to the full extent.
A gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. Sedo-
wick] has said, thai he is much amazed if this
power is in the House, that it was never found
out until this moment ; thai not a man, from Geor-
gia to Massachusetts, ever knew it before. 1 beg
leave to inform that gcotleman that he is mis-
taken; that he has not made himself acquainted
with the understanding and judgment of, I trust,
a large majority of enlightened citizens of the
United States. That it was this construction that
procured the adoption of the Constitution. That
previous to, and at the Convention of North Car-
olina, this clause, which gives the Treaty-making
power to the Pbebidekt and 8enat«, was coit-
sidered by some as an excepiicMiable 'fmrt, on ac-
count of the indefiniteness and genenility of the
expression. It was said, that the Presiognt, with
two-thirds of the Senate, could make Treaties
and make stipulations unfavorable to commerce.
But those in favor of its adoption (of which I
bad ihe honor to be a member) said, that com-
mercial regulations had been previously and ex-
pressly given to Congress, and to them secured.
Under that conception I 'was in its favor ; but
should have been opposed to it upon the other
construction. I yel think that is the true con-
struction. In the explanation of a statute, it is
proper to examine the evil and the remedy, and
to reconcile the seeming inconsistency, which
can be done in no other way than by this eon-
slmction.
I considered that Ihe Executive had abadtite
power to make peace, as by the Constitution he
IB declared Commander-in-Chief of all the Ar-
mies, his situation enabled him to be the best
judge of the forces and of the force he had to
contend with, and as secrecy was necessary to
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OF CONGRESS.
H. OF R.]
Treaty wiA Gnat Britain.
[Maw
I, 1796.
e&eciJDg a Treaty of Peace, that power waa prop-
erly Tested ID him, guaidea by (wo-lhirds of tke ,
Senate. But a Treaty at Comnerce presupposes
an exisling peace, and iu those Treaties secrecy
i« not essential ; but a compeleiit kaowkdge of
the produce of the respective Slates in all ibeir
remote situacions was necpssary; which would
be best obtained by an association of the three
branches of Goreroment.
This is g. Treaty of Comeierce, and therefore
hasinTolved Legislative objects. It consequently
requires LegislaiiTe sanctioD ; a contrary con-
struction would be a violation of the Cooiiiiuiion
and of the principles upon which it was adopted,
and therefofe a vioktiou of the rights of the
I confess, on viewing the exception and force of
die argument, that 1 had some doubt, that when
the Government became old and corrupt, that
this perversion might be attempted ; but bad no
idea that in the course of six years it would be
contended for.
A view of mutual interest excites- individuals
and natioas to form intercourse and commercial
contracts. So long as the end corresponds with
the desij[B, the firm should exist and no longer i
when either or both are dissatisfied, reason would
dictate a dissolution. Nor can this with indi-
viduals or nations he a just cause of quMrel or
war, but often the best way to preserve peace.
It is not enough for me to bnow that this Treaty
did happen, but 1 wish to know the causes that
produced it, which will best be known by advert- ;
ug to the papers contemplated in the Tesoiutioo.
A gentleman from Vermont, [Mr. Bock] in
the commencement of this debate, has said thail
the Treaty was now the law of the land, after
having been concurred in by two-thirds of the
Senate, and ratiBed by the Prebidbht. It was
SHbverting the first principles of our Qovernment,
and to oppose was rebellion ; aad more particu-
larly as It WBH officially laid on the table and pro-
mukated by the Pbesioent's ProclaoiatioD. To
nee Eis language, it struck like thunder — appeared
like the majesty of Heaven.
I would beg leave to obierve to tbat sentle-
man. that as to the majesty of Heaven, I lack a
simile, not being acquainted with the gods. But
with respect to thunder, I have some Knowledge
of its operatioiD; when it strikes a sensible object
it destroys sensibility. If it has had that effect
upon that gentleman, unlera he has recovered, he
is yet unfit for a legislator. I would only further
observe, that if the Trwty was not the law of
the land, the Proclamation did not make it so. 1
should not have observed on the gentleman from
Vernuiot, but for the eulogium given by the gen-
tleman from Soulb Carolina, [Mr. W. Smith,]
who had said, that his speech was of snch dignitv
that an attempt to repeat it would lessen the ori-
ginal.
1 have been told it has been a custom in this
Hou^e, when persons have conspicuously dis-
charged their duty to give them the thanks of the
House, I wish to indicate to the gentleman, that
he was unauthorized to oommiaueale mine.
Another f^entleman from South Carolina [Mr.
H&rfeh] SBtd, when this motion was first made,
he thought it immaterial, bur now he thinks it a
violation of the rights of the Executive. How
Eentlemen can bo suddenly change their opiniotis
Irom one extreme to the other, 1. am at a loss to
I, generally, have discovered that in
n occurrences, things present them-
selvex(as to substance) right in the first instance;
there may be some change with respect to form.
Nor can I conceive any other cause than a recol-
lection of the necessity of gnards to prerogative.
I yet think it a modest and reasonable request,
and in that point-of view. I trusty will the Presi-
dent consider it. He will recollect that we are
the Representatives of the people, and that we
cannot discharge our duty by knowing that this
Treaty did happen, but by being acquainted with
the causes that produced it, whether by accident,
design, or ntces^ty. If by accident, we are not
bound ; if by design, and the motives corrupt, it
is a nullity : fraud contaminates a private con-
ttact, according to Vattel; if by necessity, and
that can be known, it will be a saScieai apology,
and we will submit to it. Under these considera-
tioas, with those that have been ofie red, I am
conclusively in favor of the resolution.
Mr. Bhadbust observed, that the most plausi-
ble reason that he had heard in support of the
resolation under the consideration of the Commit'
tee, resulted from a pritKifde advanced by a mem-
ber Jrom Pennsylvania, who spoke upon. the sub-
ject last week. The principle was this; thai
where any atlick^^f a Treaty were repugnant to
prior existing acts of Congress, those acts must
first be repealed by Congress before such Treaty
can become the law of the land ; and it was said
some of the articles of the British Treaty were
of this nature. He would not stay to examine
the truth of the fact, for admitting it to ba true,
he altogether denied the principle ; bnt yet he
acknowledged that if it could be made out, it
would afford the best reason yet given for calling
for the papers. If their concurrence was neces*
sary to give existence or legality to the Treaty,
he saw not why they ought not to be favored
with the papers as well as the Senate. But he
asserted, and woold endeavor to prove, tbat the
Treaty has already a legal existence; that it is
now the law of the land; and that, therefore, no
act of Congress is, or can be, necessary to make
it so ; and, therefore, that House could have no
need of the papers, nor any right to call for them
on that ground.
That the Treaty had alreadr became the law
of the land, and tbat no Legislative act of Con-
gress was necessary to make it so. he argned
wholly from the Constitution itself, by wnich
alone the question must at last be determined.
That instrument expressly declares, that all
Treaties made under the authority of the United
Slates shall be the supreme law oifthe.land. He
laid no stress upon the word supreme, admiitine
for argument sake, that the supremacy ascribed
to the Constitution and laws, and Treaties made
under it, meant a supremacy over the Consti-
.dbyGoogle
HI&VV)RT OF CONOBESS.
550
Mt.Boy,1706.}
Treaty vitk Oreat Britain.
[H.o
tatioo »i>d Ib-ws of iBdiTidoal Stales:* All Ire
uked to be gtaated him, and which he thought
eonld Doi be denied, waa thai a Treaty made
oader the suihoritr of tbe United Slates was
the law of the land. If bo, then all that
aeeded to be proved wai, that a Treaty made by
the PncaitiBnT, with the adrice and consent of
two-thirds of tbe Senate, whs a Treaty made
under the anthoriiy of the Uniifd Slates. And
to prove thai, he needed only to mention another
eUiue in the Consiltaiioti, which expressly de-
clares that the Pbbbidbnt, with such advice aod
eoBsenl, shall have power lo make Treaties.
If then the United State^ by their ConstiiD-
tion. have authorized the Prebideht, with such
advice and conKnt, lo make a Treaty, and if he,
vrith such adtice and conseot, has in fact made
one with Great Britain, then thai Treaty is tnsde
under the aiKborky of the United States, and if
■o. then it is the \iw of the land.t fbi* reason-
jnc' appeared to hitn to be plain and conclusive.
The consequence could not be denied Or evaded.
If so, the principle asserted by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania mast fall to the ground, The
Coastitntion neither expresses nor countenances
Mich a principle. IFit bad intended that a Legis-
lative act in such case should be necessary to
complete the contract, it would have expressed
that intention by an express ftioviso} for it is a
case that must often hapitan in makiog of Trea-
ties, and which must have been conleraplaied
when the Coqstiintion was made. Instead of
which the Constitution declares that Treaties,
all Treaties without eicepti(Hi or limitation, made
y to be so made,^ shall be
the law of the land; but this principle teaches
and asserts, that they shall not be the law of the
land, althoDgb so made, until sanctioned by an
act of the Legislature. It was not possible to re-
concile the doctrine with the Constitution; they
were coniradiclory in fact as well n^ in terms.
He added, that if a Treaty was the law of the
land, it must necessarily^ upon iia becoming so,
repeal and annul all pre vions acts and lawsrepng-
•ma—li lUi b* ulndtlail bsM, Ibr vfT nwM nte, TH h Is euf
la itnir, uiu ib( dMlirUhia tn Llta CuuUuiilsD, "Thb CihihIu-
iton uhI tSs lawiorihsOnllad Sum which (hall b« nuda 1b
aofilie Called Swua. if wait orar tha lananl FUaial Oanra.
■toLa* nRiheCoaaUtuUgDMid IswaofthelBdltlriiuU Sikiaa
Tte nuiDc K i^_th|^jui ^J^^;;^!?^.^^^ °3Jil£l
wtn u iWn u> Trcuha than alraailr R]ad& aa veII u u luch ■•
Aniht b« iharoalter mwla, ihs romer mH haTlni bwn mwla by
i>* PratJaiW. bin W Coagrasi. btw <mUi mlgbiiral* bsailJ to ba
^ D^der^ •liboriwt'-- "-"- ■ *—-
nm la no colw l«
t^^Btnm, be ■ Tremtj
«il)«iii7 of UiB Ualiad
nant to' it: here the maxim of kw strictly a^
plies, Ug«* poateriare* pnorei eofUrarivt tibrif-
gant. If it did not, it could not be the law of the
land ; for, if former acts repugnant to it yien
stilt ID force, they must still necessarily be supe-
rior to it, and prevent its operation, and a law
that cannot operate is no law.
It was acknowledged by the same gentleman,
that an act of Congress could'nol repeal a Trea-
ty, because it was a contract made with another
[>arty. < Nor, said that genlleman, can a Treaty
repeal a taw, because Congress made it, and their
consent is necessary to repeal v^at they have
made. But he denied tbe coesequence. It does
pot fi^ltow that an act of Congress is necessary to
repeal a law, because they made it. The Consti-
tution may, without absurdity, authorize another
distinct power to repeal an act of Congress; and
it is still a question of fact whether they had or
not. He contended tbat they bad in the case of
a Treaty.
To prove his proposition, that gentleman had
observed, '' That in the first section of the Coa-
stitntion all L^islative power therein mentioned
was given toCoogreas) yet in the last section
bat one tbe Constitution says. Treaties shall be
the supreme law of the land, tliDugh made by tbe
PBasioENT and Seiuite. A Leoislative power is
thus given them, after all Legisbtive power was
vested in Congress, as if there were two Legisla-
tive powers. How were theoe powers to t« re-
conciled 1" He answered, the tatter particular
power was an exception to the former general
|wwer. If a Treaty is a law, then thp malting it
IS a Legislative act, by what power soever made,
call it Sxecntive, or what yon please. If a gen-
eral unlimited power of legislation be given (o
Congress, and afterwards a particular power to .
legislate in a particular case, is giveb to the
PrbsideIit, it must operate as an exception to the
general power; this will reconcile the two pow-
Sut it is said, if this be the case; then the Bx-
sutive may grasp bH Legislative power, and re-
peat all acts of UMigress, ny making an insigniS-
cant Indian tribe a party to a Treaty. He an-
swBred. that the Supreme Executive must be
very weak, as well as wicked, to make use of an
Indian Treaty as an iOsImment to repeal all acts
of Congress. What consideration could be held
forth by an insignificant Indian tribe as an equiv-
alent for so great a sacrifice. The fraud must ap-
pear on the face of the Treaty, and would defeat
his intentions. This Treaty-makii^ power given
'~ the Supreme Executive by the Constitution,
s, he acknowledged, a very large and impori-
: power; but no argument could be drawn
against its existence from the 'possibility of its
being abused. It was fully considered when the
Constitution was made, that the Treaty power
was a great and important power, and the ^ving
it to the Supreme Executive, without defining or
limiting it, was one great ohjectioo to the Con-
■- "n. But it was then justly observed, and
{specially in the debates of the Vireinia
CtHivention, that it was a power that could not
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OP R.]
Treaty v&K QmU Briiain.
[MuoH, 1796.
well be placed in Coogresa, nor anywhere dae, to
*wtl\ as in the Supreme Executive ; and thai, in
its nature, it coald not be limited, except perhaps
that it ought not to extend lo the dismemberment
of the Empire. This lact sentiment is ascribed
to a learned and respectable character, who was
bow a member of that House ; but, in Ine present
debate that gentleman had declared, that he now.,
hesitated not to say, that the; ought not to admit
the Treaty-making power to be unlimited. How
litis could be reconciled wiih his former senti'
meat, il it were rightly ascribed to him, he was
unable to say. He presumed the geotlemaD liad
altered his opiaion.
The fatal consequeBoes which might flow from
the abuse of this power, have been painted by the
same gentleman in strong colors ; but chose con-
sequences were considered as possible when the
CoDsiiiuiion was formed ; notwithstanding which,
it was judged necessary to lodge this power in
the Supreme Executive, without atcempiing id li-
mit it as to its object. And it cannot be limited
\ty anything but the Constitution ; no laws iacon-
stsieolwitbtfaatcan be passed, either by the Treaty
or Legislative power. And the only otbrr checlu
he could find on this power of the Supreme Gie-
cutive in the Constitution, were the requiting the
adrice and consent of two-thirds of the Senate i
aad impeachments against both, for abuse of pow-
er, vested in thet-Houae.
He nowhere read in the Constitution that any
act of Congress, in any possible case, was neet-s-
sary Co make a Treaty, so as that wtlboui it such
Treaty could not be tne law of the land. He do-
where read that prior acts of CooKress repugoanC
to A Treaty must first be repealed nefore a Treaty
could be a law.
Bot, says the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
the same Treaty power is giren to the King by
the Constitution and laws of England, that ii
given to the PaBsiDsirr by our Constitution, and
tet the Parliament have the power there whioh
e contends for in favor of Cfoogress here ; that
is, they must repeal prior laws repugnant to a
new Tiealy, before it can be ihe law of the land ;
and wby is not an act of Congress, it is asked, ae~
cessary for ibe same purpose, in a similar case
here T He would answer, because our Constttu-
lion is different from tbe British in this respect :
it dtclares that a Treaty made under the autho-
rity of the United States, (and he had shown that
a Treaty made by tbe Phesideht, as aforesaid,
was made under such authority,) is the law of
the land, and if it is a law^o Aing further can be
requisite to make it so. There wa* no such de-
claralion in the Constitution and laws of Eng-
Und.
There was no arguing from the power of Par-
liament to the power of Congress. The Parlia-
ment must have controlled this Treaty power of
the King, and stripped him of his prerogative, by
use and cnstom. There bad been in En^nd a
constant struggle between power and privilege;
the prerogatives of the King were not founded in
the grant of the people ; they were founded on
force, on the right of conquest ; whatever, tl
gained from the Kiag by the Commons,
idered as so much gained by the people
from an adverse power.
If the President ware an hereditary moaarch,
deriving his power from his predecessoru by de-
scent, a power originally founded in coo<juesl,
Congress would do well to eel as much of it oat
of his hands as they could. It would here be, as it
was there^ a struggle between prerogative and
privilege, it would be the people against the King.
But as this was not the case, and as Congress
never had in fact assumed and exercised the pow-
er of confirming by an act of theirs, Treaties made
by the PRsainENT, this vrguukent from analogy
wholly failed.
Suppose the Parliament of Qteat Britain should
pass a law expressly delegating the Trealy-niakii^
power to the King, with the advice and consent
of two-thirds of his Privy Council, and sbouid de-
claie in the act, that a Treaty made under such
authority should be tbe supreme law of the land.
They claim a right to make such a law, for Judge
BiaeJciltme affirms, that the denial of a power m
every Government, even tg alter every part of its
Constitution, is the height of political absurdity ;
and in England, he expressly. ascribes this power
t J Parliament
.What would be the efiect of such an act of Par-
liament i Would not a Treaty made under it be
clearly tbe law of England 1 and would I ' "
would i and this clause, he said, was inserted ik
the American Constitution, probably to guard
against that very construction which is now en-
deavored to Ife put upon the Treaty power; on
purpose to cut off all pretence of a power in Con-
gress to control a Treaty, by refusing to repeal
any prior laws that might stand in the way of iu
Hut, said the same geDllemao, shall a British
House of Commops have this rigiti of controlling
the Treaty -making power, and shall it be denied
to the Representatives of a free people? He an-
swered, the pBEeiDENT and Senate of the United
States were as much the. Representatives of a
free people as that House was; they were as
truly, thouirh not so immediately, chosen by the
people as tney were. Thepeople distributed their
powers as they pleased. T^e Pbesident, said he,
represents the people as their executive agent,
and is possessed of all executive power, anif Ihe
power of making Treaties. The true question,
then, was, shall one constituted representative au-
tboritv usurp the power and control the acts as-
signea by the Constitution to another represeota-
tive authority of the same free people ? They cer-
tainly ought not. If they should attempt it, it
would be Mposing oi.e authority of tbe people' to
another. It would be dividing a free people
against itself. But he hoped he had niid enough
to show the unsoundness of that principle, and
fully to establish what he first undertook to prove,
that the Treaty was already completed ; inat it
was already the law of ihe land ; and that it did.
by its own force, repeal all prior laws, if there
were any standing m the way of it; and if so. they
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY or C0NGHES8.
TVfiofy -with Great Britain.
[H. OP R-
eoutd have no aeed of ihe
«"
labicg ii a law. It had aUo been laid by (be
King before his Psriiament, and he supposed the
ueccssar^ appropriations liad been made to carry
it into effect. He did not know that any other Par-
liamentary procjsion was necessary.
fiui it may be said, Ibai it is fit and proper that
they should call for the papers mentioned in the
resolution, even if the Treaty were law. because
appropriations by act of Congress would be ne-
eejsarjf to carry it into effect, and they ought lo
have tbe papers tojudge whether it be fit for I hem
to make tnose appro pnatioas.
He answered, whether thai be fit or not, In his
opinion, must depend wholly upcAi the Treaty or
law itself and upon nothing out of it. It waslike
all other laws requiring appropriations, in making
which they must be gOTPrned by a sound and le-
gal discretion, and that discretion must be go-
Terned by the instrument itself.
Even if a question should arise and he proper
for the discussion of that House, on the constitu-
tionality of the Treaty, yet that question must be
decided by the Treaty itself, and by nothing else;
and there could be no need of any papers for that
purpose. Ifgeneral icformation were the object,
to allay the public sensibility, he should think the
better way would be to request the President to
publish the papers in all the newspapers through-
out the United States. But he believed he must
he roDsidered as the best judge in that loatter.
He would only add, that the correspondence be-
tween their Envoy and the British Minister was,
in its nature, secret and confidential. It was
communicated to the Senate because ihe^ were
a pHrt of the Treaty-making power, which the
House was not; but eren to inem it was commu-
nicated in confidence. A request to the Presi-
DEHT, said he, to communicate these papers,
amounts to a requirement; but there cnU be do
right 10 require where there is no obligation to
The request may place the President in a dis-
agreeable situation. He is undoubtedly disposed
to gratify the House in every requeit as far as hia
duty win permit; but where there is so much
doubt, respecting his duty in this case, he hoped
they would never reduce him to the disagreeable
slieroalive, either by the Tiolation of what he
might esteem his duty, to gratify the Hoase, or,
by observing it, to give offence.
The great and only question ttlec alt, he eon-
eeired, would be upon the nature and eitent of
their discretion in making the appropriation oe-
cejsary to carry the Treaty into effect. They
must, upon a view of the Treaty, determine whe-
ther they will make such appioptialiou or not;
and, in determining that question, they must, as
he had before observed, exercise sound, legal dis-
cretion. If it be a law of the land, as he had en-
deavored to prove it was.lhey should exercise the
tame discretion as they do in passing all othcrap-
ptopriation laws.
He was ready, for his own part, to admit that
t Treaty, though made according: to all the forms
af the ConstitutiOQ, might be 99 Md, 10 pernicious
41b Cox.— 19
to the interests and rights of the people, as to
justify that House in refusing to lend their aid to-
wards carrying it into effect, so pernicious as to
justify the Legislature in declaring by law that
they would not fulBl nor be bound by 11. If any
future Prebident and Senate should become so
corrupt and wicked, as lo form an alliance by
Treaty with a foreign nation at war, and contract
to become a party to such war, and to furnish
such nation with a large body of troops, to be
transported across the Atlantic, a case tnat had
been put, he should think that such a Treaty,
made against the general sense of the people, and
manifestly against (he public interest, would be
an abuse of j>ower^ and one of those extraordinary
cages that might justify the Legislature in refus-
ing to carry it into effect. But cases of this kind
are not to be supposed, and cannot be easily de-
fined; nor is there aoy necessity of attempting
lo ascertain the extent or limits of the discretion-
ary power of the House with respect to such
IlTl
by Treaty, the honor and public
were pledged and at stake, and that, as its charac-
ter and reputation depended so much upon good
faith, and the due observance of public engage-
ments with other Powers.it must be a very ei-
traurdinary case, indeed, that could justify a vio-
latioQ of such an engagement. Such a case, he
trusted, was not the present. But he would not
then trouble the Committee with any further ob-
servations on that point, because he did not con-
ceive that it had aoy necessary relation 10 the re-
solution before the Committee.
He confessed he was very sorry this resolution
had npt been either postponed or withdrawn. It
had carried them into a wide field of controversy,
and led into a premature and lengthy discassioa
of important questions, upon an important subject,
which would not'be decided by the discussion, bat
stilt tie open to debate, which ever way (he ques-
lioD upon the resolution might he decided. Ha
hoped, huwever, some light would be thrown upon
the main subject by the present debate, and il so,
their time and labor would not be entirely lost.
Mr. RuTBEHFOBD. — I beg leave to make a few
observations, and I briefly declare that I am neithet
in the temper of picking or breaking locks, nor of
blind or passive obedience. The majesty of thii
great people justly entitles them to all poKJble
publicity; more they do not desire, nor do their
Representatives expect or desire more. There-
fore, it is with mucti concern I discover good pa-
triots alarmed, and deceiving themselves into
sophistries; by considering this great subject aa
finally decided upon, and completely finished,
while they entertain fears for the Federal com-
pact; fears, though unfounded, that originate in
a very laudable sentiment. But where is the man,
possessing moderate abilities and a love for hii
country, that will not readily allow the Union (u
the jolly sailors term it) to ne the sheet-anchor of
these States ; and that the great family cannot
divide and yet standi a circumstance, inde^,
which woula be pleasing to such as riew us with
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
TViwKj/ Mttfc Cheat Britain.
[MjlBch, 1796.
malignant eyes. What is inteDded by the resolu-
tioD Defore youl Mere informatioD respectiag
the imporUnt business of the Treaty in question,
and exprensed in terms so|replete with due respect
to that generous patriot — submitting all to his
caution, his great prudence, and good sense — that
I trust, when gentlemen recur to their own minds,
every doubt will Tanish. I am well aware of the
warm patriotism of gentlemen, and it would there-
fore be indelicate to warn them religiously a^nst
ererytbing that may be construed as a spirit of
Erty. No violence or indelicacy is meant, in the
istj against the President or the Senate. All
consider the Phebident with lively, grateful, and
generous sensibility. No change in the Federal
compact is here intended, till the sovereign people
■hall deem it necessary deliberately and constitu-
tionally so to do; and, therefore, arguments on
that head ore fallacious, to say the least. The
Treaty, when it becomes tbe suiiject of debate, is
to be considered with great moderation, on Con-
atitulional ground, and under tbe auspices of jus-
tice and right reason. The matter is, nevertheless,
serious, weighty, and very important; involving
no less than tbe sovereign rights of a virtuous,
Ksat, and rising people, who, under Divine favor,
ve Iriumpbea for tneir fair and generous patriot
partners, tbeir render children, and all posterity.
None, I trust, will contend, before the people and
all the observing world, that this branch of thi
great National Council have not complete contro,
over the commerce, naturalization, &c., of the
United Stales. Much stress has been laid on
patriotism of the Pkesideht, which makes it
eeuary for me to reply, lest I am taken for '
oninformed. I bavehad the honor of the Prl_.
dbnt'b acquaintance well nigh, or quite, forty-four
years, and be bas supported every character with
merit, dignity, and unwearied attention. I have
aeled with bim on trying occasions, sometimes
equal, oflenlimes in a subordinate sphere; and
though senior to point of years, yet 1 uniformly
looked up to him as a parent, my head, and my
guide; yet I am independent of the pHEaioEsr —
an unchangeable friendship ddIv excepted. My
frinciples I shall avow without fear or shame, and
am conscious they are not unpleasing to that
honest man, who will, I am well assured, come
forward with bis wonted purity, (though bis task
baa been very arduous,) and will do what is pru-
dent, right, and necessary, and no more. Why
did this our common parent, tbe dignified servant
of tbe people, submit his Treaty to these his fel-
low-servants 7 Surely, to obtain their aid in this
f[reat national concern. He is not governed by
ight^ules of action. Why then hesitate or trem-
ble 7 Are we not the legitimate Representatives
of a magnanimous people, who desire nothing bat
equal justice, and therefore really have nothing
to dread in contending with becoming firmness in
support of their just rights t I did not intend to
touch the merits of the Treaty, nor shall 1 now
enlarge, though a case presents itself to my mind,
which seems to me to be in point. We will sup-
pose that the immortal Frahklin, and other pa-
triots, had been managed out of the American
independence in the Treaty of 1783, after torrents
of heroic Uood bad been spilled on the cold earth,
so much treasure lavished, and a horrid war, with
all its coDComitanle, had existed eight years. Had
such been the ease, would not the same brave peo-
ple, though, small in number, sore and wearied,
have rushed again to arms with one voice 1 An
answer is unnecessary. One word more, which
is submitted to candor: Is not equality and mu-
tual benefits the great basis of justice T Was tbis
Treaty obtained on ibis equal ground 1 This also
1 people,^ w
t to interfere with I
warmest calls of gratitude dictate, prostrate them-
selves to obtain a losing commerce 1 And shall
they dread being dragooned into this losing trade?
No, never, I hope ana trust. Thissame commerce
is a pretty thing to a few individuals, indeed it is
mirtn and gladness toEUch, while it isaslowtbough
certain politicet death to the common interest. '
Though 1 highly regard that/people, I would not
have the American people imploring, as a boon,
to be the painful, adventurous collectors for that
people; and after obtaining treasure from other
nations, cast it into their coHers, and at tbe feet of
their merchants. Surely the Government of thai
country are too wise, magnanimous, and JDct, to
attempt forcing this losing commerce. 1 shall
not dwell on the futility of such a project, and
only observe, that it would divert the present eur-
reat of commerce, and of course it would never
fall again into the same channel ; especially at
the people of these States neither wish nor desire
anything repugnant to reason, justice, and good
neighborhood. Have the terms of the Treaty of
1783 been observed with good faith? I shall
not reply. The field is wide, much might be
said ; and when the Treaty is the subject, I shall
be more full, if opportunity presents.
Tbe Committee rose, and had leave to sit again,
March 15.— In Committee of tbe Whcde on
Mr. Livinoston's resolution.
Mr. P*a6 spoke as follows : I confess, sir, that I
bad wished that this House, instead of asking tbe
PRESioENTfor information respecting the negotia-
tion and ratification of tbe Treaty, at this late day
of its session, had ^iven him, as soon as possible
after its meeting, fully their opinions, and that of
their constituents, respecting the Treaty itielf
But, as time has been afforded for deliberalioD,
and the House has waited most nafiently and
respectfully till the Presioent could "place the
subject before them," according to his promise in
his Address to Congress, I think they have shown
a spirit of moderation which deserves credit. The
friends of the Treaty cannot complain that it bas
been liaslily and ruifely attacked, and should not
object to the request which is proposed to be made
to the PREamENT, to furnish a siatemeot of facts
which, from what has been said elsewhere, may
he supposed sufficient to silence the most clamor^
ous opposers of the Treaty. I have been aston-
ished, therefore, to find that several members have
most strenuously ojiposed the application to tbe
PBS8IDENT, as an insult to him ; as useless and
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
MiBOH,1796.]
Trtaty vUh Oreai Britain.
UBCODsiitii(ional,UDless intended oa the foundation
of an iiD peach men 1 of him, of bis Envoy, or of the
(weoiy Senalors ; and, lastly, as founded on a mis-
taken sUDpositJoD, that the Treaty is unconstiiu-
tional. In reply, sir, to these objections, I remark,
that the idea of its being an insult to the Presi-
dent musl be founded en a mistaken opinion of
(he Conslilutional potrers of the Prebident and
of the House of Representatives, and of the re-
lation the Frehident and Representatives have to
each other, nnder the Constitution of the United
States ; for unhappily the ideas which some mem-
bers have adopted, resnecling the aitthorily of our
ExecQlire, ate derived from a recollection of what
was the Executive aotborily in the Groverument
DDder which we once lived, and of what they have
read in books written to support that GovernmenL
But there caonot be a sreater error than to adopt
these ideas; for the Executive aUlbarity of the
United States, flowing from the people, the Pre-
sident, or person invested with that authority,
elected by tViem. at short stated periods allowed
only a limited negative on the laws of ConKiess,
forwbieh negative too he is to give reasons, which.
if not satisfactory to two-thirds of both Houses, are
to be disregarded, and the law is to be valid with-
out his assent ; restrained from creating offices,
giving salaries, or making war, and bound to give
' account of the state of the Union to Coneress,
and moreover irapeachable by the House ot Re-
Ereaentatives, and triable by the Senate,— cannot
e coin^iitTPil to one of those tnonarchs who hold
their Kingdu.iis aitd subjects by herniilary right;
to whom all property and power originally are
supnosed to heloog; from whom all lionor and
aotoority flow ; who can declare war and make
peace, and to sanction whose acts of sovereignty
It has been thonght prudent to affirm (hat they
can do no wrong: 1 say, sir, that there can be no
resemblance between such an awe-commanding
beiur, and our fellow-citizen, the PaEtunEN -
TBB UHiTEft Statist; and that it could be n<
suit to him, to ask him for information respecting
an important transaction, in which his eons '
ents and this House arc deeply interested ; for
requests are made evea to tlie British King. If
the Constitution requires that the PRGSinEHT shall
^i*e an account of the state of the Union to Con-
gress tmasked, it should not be said that it is un-
coostitoiioDal for this House to ask for informa-
tion ; eapeciallY as it is acknowledged; by the very
objection ithcll, that such information may be de-
manded, if it be intended as the foundation of an
impeachment; and if 't is confessed that it may
be useful in case of an impeachment, it must be t
contradiction to say, that it is useless to call for it
and especially as^ independent of an intention tc
make this nse of it, we have been told that it ma\
silence clamors against the Treaty. The appli
cation, therefore, lo the pREeinBNT, as proposed it
the reaolmion, is neither an insult to him, nor use
less, nor u neons lilutiona 1 ; bnl, on the contrary, i'
sufficiently decent, may be useful, and is perfectly
within the spirit, and, I may say, the letter of the
Constitution, should it be found necessary toapply
it to an impeaohmani. But we have been ' '
that the Treaty being Cone li tut ional, and the
Treaty-making power out of the reach of this
House, we have nothing to do with any ioforma-
ihe land, and it is rebellion to oppose it. As to
the coQstiiutioaalitf of the Treaty, 1 did think
that when that subject should be brought before
the Committee of the Whole on the state of the
Union, it would be the onlv proper time tO exam-
ine it > but, as it has been lorced upon the present
Committee, I will take the liberty which has been
used by others, and show what I think at present
respecting it.
1 think ihat the Treaty is Constitutional, as far
as relates to the powers of the contracting parties
to make Treaties; and is Constitutional and valid,
also, as far as relates to that part of it which gives
it the name of a Treaty of Amity, and which might
be in a separate and distinct Treaty by itself; Tor
the PRESIDBNT, by and with the advice and con-
sent of two-ttrirdsof the Senators [Hesenl, has an
undoubted authority, under the express words in
the first article of the Constitution, to make Trea-
ties. And ! have no doubt that the Treaties which
were in the view of the ftaraers of that article,
must have been principally Treaties of Peace. 01
Amity, of Neutrality, or of Alliance. This is the
more probable, as the first and principal Treaties
in which nations were concerned, were Treaties
of Peace, or Treaties to secure the blessings of
peace ; aud it is certain that the Treaty of Peace
with Great Britain was the very Treaty which
gave ri^e tu the declamtion of the Constitution,
that all Treaties made and to be made by the aur-
Ibority of the United States shall be the supreme
law of the land ; for the Treaty of Peace *ilh
GreatBritainwassaid tobeinastateofinexecutioQ
on Bccotnit of an obstruction thrown in the way
by the law« of certain States. This article, there-
fore, was intended to remove all obstacles/ which
had arisen or mightarise from Slate Legislatures,
and might, 1 wilfhere remark, as easily nave been
extended to remove all ob«tructions from the Ge-
neral Le^slature by adding to the words "any
CooalitutioD or law of the States;" these words,
" or the Constitution or taws of the United Slates
notwithstanding." The power to make Treaties
of Commerce and Navigation, I humbly con eeife,
could scarcely be within the view and design of
the Convention, at Least not as a primary object,
when they formed ihe articles respecting Treaties;
because ibcy knew, that the extent situation, po-
pulation, and productions of the United States,
were such as would command them a sufBcient
share of the commerce of the world, without tha
aid of commercial Treaties. They knew that al-
scareely exist without them ; tbey knew more.
. constituents, that giving a power to Con-
gress to regulate oommerce, which would answer
everypurposeof Commercial Treaties, gave exist-
ence to the very powers under which they were Bct-
.dbyGoogle
55d
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
RopR.]
Treaty viih Great Britain.
ingat the momeottbey framed that article.* Tbia
mode of regulating commerce was favoretf by ibe
opinion of ibe people, who celebrated the adop-
tion of the CoDslilulion with so much exultation
mod eippDsive parade in toe great commercial ci'
ties of ibe- United States. They had no doubt
that tbe new Congress would use the power with
whicb it WHS iovesied, sa as to oblige Oreat Bri-
tain to open her ports to them in the West Tndies,
and to put their trade with them upon a more
equilatile and stable fooliog. Indeed, sir, the peo-
ple thoughl, as associations not to import certain
articles ftom Oteai Britain, entered into by them
wbeit they were poor helpleiis Colonists, with hal-
ters about their necks, repealed the Stamp act,
JUFFmSON, la whom vara nlsrred lundrf leiun inil pspcn
r«liIlmti>e«iiiaEKlil miuen, iinil Uie MlsHini ptngnph tiring
■iul«rilBli.«;"Th.t1Ib.recommBnafldiolh8l>gUliivurf«nfihB
■snnl StUH, lo TC« lbs Usiud Siiua is Ciiii|n«i uvsmtjled, iac
■halennol'EriawiT«n.w1lhipaw«'ia pnihlMt ux gooli, warn,
wmerctiuidin, rmm be)ii| Imppned laia anjof iheSi»« e».
eeMlB "™»l«B«loMti)^U>,«ndn«tlg»mll>)FclilM~rfilieUnk
•d%wa, or (ha autiiKU of fsn'^a foiien wiili whom lbs UoIuhI
Stain miT luva TrTUlu of Commerce :"
A mottoa »u made bf Mr. HOV^LL, Mcondnl by Mr. ELI.G-
KY,toiii«pBiieihaMii«H«»Uontlwreof, inorj[«riai«ta up iha
Mlowint: "TtiM li lis recommanaBd in tbn l^itiilum ol liie
nnni 8iuc«, It natnln, br hnpoMt <r nrahltihian. idt ifoils,
iiratM,arnieKliuidiM,Anaii6alng InpsrUdiDULbcmrMpKilTa-
U, Biun In TB»1» balgoclnf lo.and narlitlad bJiCilliciu of the
Odhnl SuiH, or tha mUKU of fcrelgn Puma wiih whnm Ihf
Dollad 8(U« HUT hi*e TrHUkeaoT CiiminRC*,>ir AanibiKi* af
■Dch IbrtlgB Pevrwi u m«T ailmil of i reclprociljr Id ihalr Itwle
wHhlhechiien<oriliMnSTii!«. Thii li bt recommended in the
L(^«liiin«aofih» asi
"'""""' "'h«;.dTi
the TUfUtve. 1
_ ,tn pmhiWl
a,Kliigdnni,arEmpirB.rrnm imponli
y»e»l»lT..ny.tood».w^. ■■--■•-- ■-
tte pndac* or.manoBiauro a
n^MUthayare." And no
nwabon " ' "•- -
nxEity.i.,
«M aantd to, «• fullDwi^
TIlSruB repmad In Coo^tMa, itniien <t
U>elnin«conduclorfarslgn naiioniiUHl in
ftr u may be, all inch prncrfiding^ ■■ ml
tha UoKaif P— — '^'■- -■—-'-- -'
tolbapmnema or utvarip nata ••f tr*
Alriur niaOrealBrlialiiBdDplnd n
eanmlfRawllhlierWM IndWIilaDdi _.. _ ._
p«lttlMimMMvaainequaI,and ■oltUle calculaudui
nereaDUIa lulaicgomi uroiild not be peneremi In by ti
tott DUlon : bnt ibne meMurei un crowing li
maldbaibKduUofCoBarahaK kihrirwSb,
lamau of Gn^ Brilain wlih UmUar nHrletion«i bar
]>■> ibelr pmren da thb bead are tun ei]itlclt,and the [)ri>poiliioi»
■nda br Um nnnil tataa, imder h nKcavf to take ifae f ensnl
MMatfib«UihiaoDlUisut||Bi». UnlMi i&a tlalMd Uuim Id
Coofi^ aaaanblad riiall be vgaicd whb poiran cnmpetent to th<
IvWBtlaB of Gsmmnce, tbay can n«<er cnnDiand nclpr>ci1 tS-
kr whtch titMia eannnarea, aotmiitdtd OD prlBClplea nf equal liy,
my b« rMtnrDrd, Thai [h» Colled Slaleg m» be enabled to
■eeaie ancb tennt. they have HawHTm. Thai hba,aDj It hereby
tke Dnhed Staiaa In CaurcM awsintiled, tit Iba larm of aili>eii
nan, wtili pouter IS ptofalbii uiyewda, "" .--...
nwn bainc ImpoiMd loiii, or oponed r™..,,... _ , ...
balnc Impoiud loiii, or oponed rmn.anyiir iha auLra, h
■— LlabeloiiglM ia,or nailgaied bv, ibambjeci* of any f —
whhirboin UieStateaihall nuhaTef rmedTreillreofcoinin
>llln{itbaiiJbieclBnf anyHireljii Hiau.KlnEdnm, or Empire,
lauikorltedl^ Traa»,rroni Irnnanltii Inu ihe United Bum
poda, watna, or mercHiidlfe, which are noi the produce or
Owtura «r Ibe dgmlDkxla of tbe Bonrelis whng Ml:jecU
that acts of CoDgress r^gulatmg ei
to retaliate on Oreat Britain, would at l«ast pre-
vent the eaactio{[of the law by whicb the British
EinK was authorized to regulate the commerce of
the United States with Great Britain and her
Islands.
I at; knowledge, sir, that wbenerer a Treaty is
to be made the Fkesidgnt and Senate are ibe
proper agents to make it. I tbtak it an excellence
in our Constitution that the Prebidbht and Se-
nate, though not allowed to declare war^have au-
thority to put a stop to its horrors. This is a
wise provision against the injury which the pride
and ambition of the larger Stales might do to tbe
smaller, by continuing a war. But I caonot con-
ceive that when Congiess is authorized to make
all laws necessary and proper to carry into efiect
all ihe powers grafted by the Constitution, the
Treaty-making power as well as oihers, and
are to provide for the general welfare, which is
not confided to the President and Senate, nor
can be intrusted to them alone by the people upon
any principle which has ever had weight in the
formation of a Hepublicen Government, I caonot
i;onceive, I say, that as this is tbe case, and the
House of Representatives is- composed of mem-
bers proportioned to a certain ratio of the number
of persons to be represented, and has the sole right
to originate mooey bills, bow it can possibly be
supposed that tbe Prebidgnt and Senate, wilbout
their coDiiarrence, can make regulations of com-
merce, which may be injurious lo ibe geaeral wel-
fare, ruinous to the commerce of certain, and even
tbe largest. States ) and br a Treaty, too, which
may, moreover, deprive tnat House, which, by
the supposition of those who have defended Ihe
Treaty is at least a Committee of Waysand Means,
(and, indeed, nothing more) of the resources of
revenue to which; by the Constitution, they might
ttir, the suHiosition that the PaSBinENT aad
Senate can make such a Treaty as the one before
us, under the authority of the Constitution, is, to
my mind, the most inconsistent and extravagant
that I ever beard or read of; and, iftrue, tbe most
positive proof of the absurdityof tbe Constitution,
and of the propriety and necessity of its immedi-
~~e alteration. But, sir, 1 think the Conntiiution
capable of a coDstructton which will reconcile
not only to reasoa, but to true RepaUican prin-
ciples. The President and Senate can guard the
smaller States asainst the encroachment* of tbe
larger; they can moderate the mistaken zeal of
the popular branch of the Legislature; they can
prevent, as tbey have done, or as they uippcraed
they had done, a rash voteof chisHoosc from takinr
effect; they may negotiate Treaties of Amity aitd
Neutral! ty, and of Commetceand Navigation, with
the previous or suhsequentconsent of C<mgress; but,
surely, sir, it does not fallow, that they can take
away from ihis House, and from a future Congress,
a right to express their will, and the will m tbe
United States, in a law ; nor that they can, instead
of securing the rights of neuiraliiy with all the
belligerent Powers, sacrifice those rights in bvor
of one of Ihoae Powers, and prvvoke BDother to
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mahoh, 1796.]
TVeoiy vitk Great Britain.
[H.OPR.
laake war on the UDited Slates. These are pow-
ers which they cannot possess, and, indeed, which
the Constitution neither gives nor cac give, be-
cause it would be destructive of itself and of its
origiuBl intention. Bui it is said the words are
general. It is true they are so; but it has been
well replied, that, although they are general, there
are other expressions which, giving speciGc pow-
ers to the House of Representatives, to Congress,
to the Prebident, and to the Judiciary, must,
upon the welLknown principles of con;l ruction,
be looked upon as a reservation and exception out
of the general grant of power to make Treaties,
giveo to the President and Senate.
No rule of construction is more universally known
andestahlishedinexplainiogiLry Constitution, law'
contract, or Tieaty, than this: that the whole must
be taken together, and whatever seeming contra-
diction may appear in difierent parts, those parts
must be construed so, if possible, as to be consist-
ent with each other, and with the whole ; and by
no means so as to contradict the general tenor an^
design of the whole in.'trumeut ; for it is absurd
to suppo^ that contradictions or even unmeaning
provisions could be desisnedly inserted in such in-
struments of writing. The Conslitutioa has de-
fined the powers of the different branches of Go-
Ternment. To the Kxeciitive it has given a power
to make Treaties, to pardon, in certain cases, and
to execute the laws ; to Congress, a right to lay
and collect taxes, duties, impost, and excise; to
Srovide for the common defence and general wel-
iie of the United States; to rezulate commerce
with foreign nations; to establish one uniform
rule of naturalization throughout the States; to
constilnte tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
to define and punish piracies and felonies commit-
ted on i|ie high seas, and offencesagainst the Law
of Nations; todeelarew^rjgrant letters of marque
and reprisal; to establish omces and salaries of offi-
cers, and to anpropriate money, Sui., and to make
all taws whicti shall he necessary and proper for
carrying into execution the foregoing powers,and
all other powers rested by this Constitution in
the Government of the United States, or in any
department thereof. To the Judiciary, it gives a
rignt to judge of all cases in law or equity arising
under the Constitution, the laws of ihc United
Stales,and Treaties made.oT which shall he made,
Doder their authority, dec. These powers are per-
fectly distinct from each other, and may be all
exercised without any clashing or interference.
For the PREamcNT and Senate may make Trea-
ties of Peace, when Congress is not in session, or
if in session, should Congress be inattentive to the
distresses of war, thev may make Treaties of Neu-
trality and Alliance, out not such Treaties as shall
abridge the power, oi interfere with the Constitu-
tional jorisaiction of Congress or of the Judi-
The Judges may decide on eases arising under
Treatiei made according to the Constitution, and
Congress may and ougnl to past laws to carry
into effect all such Treaties, provider! tbey are not
ineonsisteiit with the mneral weUhre, for which
it w their ConstitntionaTduty to prOTide,and which
confided to the pRESinEHT and Senate bjr
the Constitution, nor can be intrusted to them •
alone by the people upon any principle which baa
ever had weight in the formation of a Republican
Government. If it be said that this construction
i^ooslitulion will render it difficult to form
:ify Treaties, it may be answered, that
there may be difficulties, but there will be no ab-
" '"' and when once those difficulties are re-
d^inger of disc on lent and
Congress by the Con;
" " cannot extend ti
that the power given to
titulion to regulate cony-
that regulation which de-
pends upon the will of aforeign nation or Govern-
ment, and whic!i can only be regulated by com-
pact, or by the Treaty-macing or pactitious Pow-
ers. Granting that this assertion be true, which,
however, maybe denied, as the geoeiBl belief which
Ihavealluded to, and on which the ezisteoce of the
present Government was founded, seemed to con-
tradict it; for it was almast universally believed
that an act of Congress regulating the commerce
of the United States with Great Britain, as had
been proposed to the former Congress, or Congress
under the Confederation, or as proposed to ihU
House on the 3d of January, 1794, and wellknown
by the name of MinieoN's propositions, or as pro-
posed by Mr. C1.ABK, 7th April, 1794, would have
Drought about a more advantageous commercial
intercourse with Great Britain than any direct oe-
gotiation with the British Minister. It wu
thought highly probable that the Parliament of
Great Britain would (if any of these propositiooa
had been adopted by Coneress) have refused to
have renewed their act, oy which the tnde
with these United Slates (as if they were mone
degraded than Colonies) was regulated ty the
King's Proclamation. 1 say, granting, however,
that assertion to be true, how does 11 prove, or
what other assertion can prove, that Congress has
Dt a right, under the express words of the Con-
itution, which declares that it shall have powei
1 regulate commerce with foreign nations, to be
party to that compact, or to nave some stuut,
!lher previously or subsequently, in the Treaty-
making business, when it regulates the commerce
of the Untied Stales with foreign Powers?
I may agree that a Treaty is necessary to estab-
lish a commercial intercourse between two na-
tions, to their mutual advantase and satisfacti(»,
but I must affirm, that as that Treaty would be «
comnteicial regulation, and as Confess .is ex-
""" ily empowered by the Constitution to rego-
commerce, whenever such Treaty shall .be
made between the United States and any other
nation, Congress must either direct that (he aegtt-
ttation be commenced upon ctnditions approved,
or sanction the ratification of such Ttmty bf
some act showing that the regulation of commerce,
by the Treaty, was made by the authority of Con-
gress, in con/ormity to the Coiistitution. .
Betides, sir, if the Prhidbnt and Senate cu
regalate the commerce of the United States with
one nation, thev can with all nations, and if Aej
«n with all, what nation can there be with whom
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563
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
Treaty with Great Britain.
[Ma:
:h, 179&
CoDgreaa can regulate commerce? Tiiis argu-
ment, therefore, must fall to the ground. We are
told, however, that the Treatf-makiag power,
from its nature, is competent to all the ohjecia at
least of the Tr aiy under consideration, and is
not to be controlled or checked by this House.
Let me ezamJQe this assertion. If this be true,
sir, we find that, although the British King, from
■whose tyranny we revolted, cannot force upon
his subjects, against the will of their Representa-
tiTCs, a Treaty, which it is acknowledged, (oo, he
has a right to make, the President optbe Unit-
ed ST*TBa can, by his Proclamation, force upon
the people who are his constituents a Treaty which
their direct Representatives wish (o suspend, al-
ter, or annul. Can this possibly be a true con-
struction of the Treaty-making power 1 Surely
it cannot. If it be true, then, can the Prebioent
repeal, as he has by the Treaty, the laws of Con-
gress, although by the Constitution he canuat ne-
gative them? He can oblige Congress to levy
taxes ; can withdraw impost and tonnage from
their reach; prohibit the exportation of sundry
articles, the produce of the United States, although
the Constitution forbids, the Senate and Repre-
Ecntatives concurring, to lay the smallest duty on
the exportation of any article ; he can create offi-
ces and annex salaries thereto ; destroy the rights
of this House; provoke war; in short, he can do
any thing; but this we are sworn to deny. The
absurdity of that construction, then, must be evi-
dent, and the recollection of our oaths to support
the Constitution, of which we have been remind-
ed, must force ns to revolt at the thoughts of
adopting such a monstrous construction of the
Constitution. We are reminded also of the Pre-
«it)EN-r'a Proclamation. 1 will attend to it. I
look npon it as a proper notification of the jatifi-
eatioB of the Treaty of Amity with Great Britain,
bat if can have no effect on the Treaty of Com-
merce and Navigation, till sanctioned by the
:8 of Congress. The evacuation of the posts
GODsequenee of the Treaty of Amity, ought __
take place, or if in conformity lo the Treaty of
Peace ; but, if intended as a compliance with con-
ditions annexed to the Treaty of Commerce and
Navigation, good faith requires that they ought
not to he evacuated until the final adjustment of
the differences which may arise in the course oi
the discussion of the merits of that Treaty, and
this with me is one reason why I wish for informa-
tion from the Prebident respecting the Treaty.
I confess too, sir, that I wish for a full and free
conference with the Senate on the important sub-
ject of the Treaty.
I wish also to know what was the imperious
necessity which induced a'negoiiation ajid ralifi-
cation of such a Treaty as the one before us, which
has in it articles which appear so pernicious, as,
from the authority of writers* on the Law of Na-
P- SW.-A TreilT li T»lkt, if
-rblcli hwuuHicludrdi ud
A rMuLnd ilun % •utDclflm
lionH, and the confession of a member yesleriiay,
might be declared null and void, and which
[Treaty] is destitute of others, which our consti-
tuents hoped and expected would form an import-
it part of the Treaty.
1 will now reply to a few arguments which were
thought weighty, at least they were applied so
" lestly to the Representatives from Virginia,
if they were what are called argumenta ad
hominem. We are told, sir that Virginia had put
the same construction whicn they now put. For
the Assembly of that State had proposed certain
amendments; hut these amendments, it should be
remembered, were intended to remove the evils
which the construction those gentlemen put on
the Constitution, if adopted, must produce, and
would he unnecessary, if tnat construction for
which the Virginia Representatives contended
should be adopted by Congress. The arguments
o( certain members of the General and State Con-
ventjons were also retorted on them ; but, sir, the
gentleman was too much agitated to do strict jus-
-ice in his recitals, for 1 think he did not recite
enough of some passages from the debates which
he read ; but the opinions of those gentlemen, as
itated, only prove that the Constitution has ambi-
rnities, but can never prove that it becomes this
House to explain them, so as to put it into the oavr-
ir of the pRBSinENT and Senate, as it was well re-
marked by thememher from Pennsylvania, lolegis-
late by assistance of any foreign Power, without the
aid of the House of Representative?, and reduce
the Representatives to a mere Committee of Ways
and Means. We were asked, sir, with great ve-
hemence, by a raemlier from Massachusetts, why
there had been no objection to any Treaty whicn
had been made till now 1 He enumerate!^ I think,
several nations with whom Treaties had been
made, and demanded why we objected against
the Treaty with Great Britain alone ? I reply to
this, sir, that objections were made by Congress
even to the Treaty with France, on which their
political salvation depended, and two articles were
altered ; that complaints have been made against
several Indian Treaties; that, however, if no ob-
jections had everbeenmadetoany before, it inight
be said to be high time for us to make a stand, to
examine into and check a little the expensive busi-
ness of Treaty-making; and it may be asked, in
reply to the gentleman, what other Treaty, except
that with Great Britain, ever repealed acts of
Congres! ; prohibited the exportation of the valu-
able commodities of the States, and at the same
time obliged us to abandon our claJni tothe rights
of neuttalily, and to acquiesce in an avowed at-
tempt to destroy our friends and only safe allies?
A TmiT pmilckiai u (ha SUU Is ddII, ud m ttiOftutj.
Nauinducurodha ULloal»TlD( pomt lo luks luui TnolM,
The union lo lml(ciuitManterliitgeiitiLgNiwiiuceiitiv;l>
lbs Tearl0)S,ibSuii«iOiiiMnlgf UwKlulsDiafFnBca,
__Dbled ■! Taun, ugued IMtt 111. lo brmk tha Tmii ha
h>4 uncludad with Iha Ifinpenr HulBilllaii aad the AicMuta
rhlllp, hi* im, beeuiia ihaiTreUj waapanlciouai ' "
. Fnim UiB aama re
J waa panlcioua u Uw Klnii
Treat; a« ihe ouli ihu M
- iDiliamsihedoiiiliitiiaiaf
L want of painr,a Hmq k
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Uabch, 1796.]
TVeoiy with (freat Brilam.
[H. ofR.
The eentlemaa will pardon me, when I uf, he
should not have aaked such questions.
I -will not, an a quesiioa whicb iavolres, per-
haps, the fate of the Uailed States, as well as the
political existence of this ^ouse, say any thioff to
provoke warmth. I will refrain, therefore, ^om
saying any thinr respecting the attempts wliich
hare been made, both wiihia and without the
doors of this Home, to deter members from oppos-
ing the Treaty, and will not now repeat the harsh
expressions which hare escaped from some mem-
bers in (he course of debate, but contend for, and
yrili ase the right of freedom of speech, reminding
the Committee, howererj that freedom of debate
should always be reg-ulaCed by a sense of proprie-
ty and decepcy. and that a difference of opinion on
qaeaiioas whicn must be decided by voting cannot
require passionate debate.
From what I have said, I think I hare proved
that Lmay rote for the rewlution before the Cora'
\ mittee, not only without insulting the Phebidbm',
1 but as pftyiug all the respect to him which can be
I due to the Phbsidint from an independent branch
Vof the Legislature, the direct Repreaentatives of
his eoDiitituents ; that I may rote for it as a Con-
atitutioaal ri^ht of this House, when it may wish
for information from the Phebideht respeetiiig
the state of the Union ; that 1 may vole for it,
not only as useful, but as necessary to know the
true meaning and intention of eercain articles in
the Treaty, whether it may be proper to direct
any impeachment or not. I think 1 hare also
proved that Congress has a Constliational right
to pariicipale in the ratification of a Treaty of
Commerce, if such Treaty can he called a regu-
lation of commerce, and I think it has been amply
prored by other members, that whenever money
IS necessary to carry any Treaty into effect, this
House has a Comtituiional authority to deliberate
on the propriety of granting it ; to call tor inform-
ation respecting that propriety, and to withhold
a grant of money if it should be found unnecessa-
ry or improper; and this has "been demonstrated
not only from express words in the Constitution,
bnt fi^^fihe nature of the caae, and the practice
of France and England, nations which hare been
supposed far less mdependent of their Executire
than the United States ; and it has also been eri-
daitly proved by statirig the mischiefs and absur-
dities which must result from a contrary supposi-
tion. Pot these reasons, and others which I nave
not lime to mention, I shaj^vole for the resolution
before the Committee. *
Mr. Bourns said he would hare given a silent
vole on this question, had it not have been for
some strange doctrines which had been asserted,
for he did not consider the question in itself as
necessarily involving any Constitutional question.
"e resretted the debate had taken the turn it had :
That before they had gone into the Committee of
Ine Whole to whom the Treaty was referred, they
Were debating what Constitutional ageocy the
House could take in relation to it. Those who
oj)poscd the passing the resolution, were charged
^th having given the direction to the debate,but
he would ask, who had advanced the position that
the Treaty \us not the law of the land till sanc-
tioned by this House 7 Gentlemen in favor of the
motion were certainly chargeable with this, and
hence originated the Constitutional points now in
discussion. The doctrine, that the formal assent
of the House of Representatives was essential to
the legal existence of a Treaty, stiuck him as a
Cerfect novelty. That the Pkesident and Senate
ad power under the Constitution to make Trea-
ties, and that these Treaties were the laifs of the
land, he had never heard denied until this debate.
It was true he had heard it said, that the House
might control the FREaioENT and Senate in the
exercise of ihii power, by refusing to carry Trea-
ties into effect by witKholding appropriations of
money ; but he did not expect to near the asser-
tion, that the ratification of the House was neces-
sary to a Treaty, before it became the law of the
land. He called the attention of the Committee
to the powers of forming Treaties and Alliances,
as vested in Congress under the former Confede-
ration, which was exactly similar so that vested in
the President and Senate nnder the present Con-
stitution. Then the power of regulating com-
merce, laying taxes, &c., was vested in the Slate
Legislatures. Was it ever heard that the Treaties
that the Treaty with Franca was not a law until
it had the assent of the State Legislatures 1 Yet,
according to the assertions of gentlemen, this
Treaty was not of legal efficacy without, for the
Slates had the same power of ri^lating com-
merce, which is now rested in Congress ; and, say
the gentlemen, Treaties which embrace commer-
cial regitlalioQs are not valid until Congress, who
possesses the power of regulating commerce, ratify
them. The Tact was, the Treaty with France
did embrace commercial objects, and is the law
of the land without the consent of the State Le-
gislatures.
It was under the idea that Congress had no
more controlling power over Treaties, under the
present Constitution, than was possessed by the
State Legislatures under the Old Confederation,
that the people of the State he had the honor to
represent had adopted the Constitution. They
conceived that the whole power as to making
Treaties was vested in the President and Se-
nate. They strongly objected against adopting it
even under this construction, but ne was sure those
objections would have been much strengthened
lia4 they conceived the Treaty-making power, a«
described in the Constitution, subject to the con-
structions now put upon it.
As a Repre^ntative of a small State, he felt
himself much interested in opposing the doctrine
contended for. Under the former Confederation
Rhode Island bad an equal vote wiih any State
in the making of Treaties. This right was thought
to have been fuHy preserved under the present
Constituiiou. But, it the sentiments he was com-
bating prevailed, the small States would be de-
prived of one of their most essential rights; for
the power of making Treaties is one of the prin-
cipal rights of sovereignty, was vested in aA the
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i67
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
TYealy with Great Britain.
[March, 1796.
rested ill Congress, each State hsTtDg an equal
Tote. It was Qowi in his opinioa, exclusively
Tested in (he pHEsroEHTand Senate, in whicn
body (he sreai and small Statei had (he same
wjaality of auffrage. The opioion which he ad-
T&nced was not merely the opinion of Rhode
Island when the Constitution was adopted. A
rentleman from Massachusetts bat] already shown
from the debates of the VirginiB ConTCtitron. that
that Assembly entertained the same opinion. He
was sure the opinion prevailed in the Convention
of Massachusetts^he bad attended their debates
when this part of the Constitution was the sub-
i'eci of discussion. Objections were raised against
t, from the indefiniteoess of the power vested ir.
the President and Seaiie of making Treaties.
No one suggested that lie House of Representa-
tives had any control over, much less a participa-
tion in, this power. It was ursed, from the na-
ture of the power, that It ou^t to be placed
where it was— in the President and Senate.
The Senate represented the soverei^ty of the
States i besides, from their small numbers, they
were better adapted to the exercise of this power
in respect to secrecy and despatch, necessary in
negotiations. Objections were raised on the
ground of the possible abuses to which the power
of making Treaties, unlimited and undefined as.
it was, might be carried. No one said the Pre-
8IDEHT and Senate did not possess the power, nor
was it pretended that Congress had any power to
control it.
He then called the attention of the Committee
to the debates of the Convention of North Caro-
lina. He had been a little surprited to hear a
member from that State yesterday say he was a
member of the Coovention, and that it was un-
derstood that Congress could control the PnEai-
OENT and Senate in malcing Treaties, so far as re-
spected commerce ; the power of legislating on
commercial regulations being given to Congress.
What created his surprise was, that he had read
the debates of the firs! CoriTention, and found no
anch sentiment. The gentleman had explained
faimscif by ssyine, there was a second Convention
called in that Siatej of which he was member,
and there the doctrme alluded to had been ad-
vanced. The debates of this Convention Mr. B.
bad not seen. In order to show what were the
oninioos which were held in the first mentioned
Convention of North Carolina, he would read ex-
tracts from the debates of that Assembly, which
would be applicable to the present question, and
clearly discover that all agreed that the Treaty-
making power was exclusively rested in the Pre-
ffiffENT and Seiute.
Bxtraehjrom the Debaiet refirredto by Jfr, Baoaaa.
■■ Mi. Liwii. — I hkifl B gnatar olgcctioa on this
fTound than that which hai jnit been mentianed — I
mean, lir. the LegialalJTe power given to (he Preei-
dent hiDKelf. It ma; be Bdmitled by eome, but not
by tae. Ha, air, u to make Treaiie* which are to be
the inpratne law of the land. Thii ii a Legulative
power given to dte Pre«duit, and imjdiw i contradic-
•t every |
r,ialb«J
tian to that part which uys that all 'liegiiUlive power
ifl veflted in the tiro Houkh.
Mr. SpiioHT [a member of the Convention which
formed the ConatitBtion] anlwered, that it wu thoug'ht
better, ti> put that power 'm,\.o the hsndi of the Senaton
■a Representative! of the States, that thereby the inter-
•■I oS every State wa> equally attended to in the fbnii>
■lioD of Treaties, but that it waa not considered aa a
Legialabve act at all.
Mr. HicLAiai^-That Treaties were the aupreme
law of the land, in all countiiei, Ibi the moat abviani
reasana ; that laws or Legliilative ants aperiled upon io-
dividuala, but that Treaties acted upon States ; that, un-
leu they were the lupreme law of the land, they could
have no validity at all ; that the Proaident did not act
in this case aa a legislator, but rather ia his Executive
capacity.
Mr. Lawd^-He itiU thought the Preeidenl waa poa-
seised of Legislative powers, while be could make
Treaties joined with the Senate.
Mr.IaiDiLi,. — WTien Treetiee are made they become
as valid aa LegislatlvB acts. I apprehend that evei
act of the Oovernment, Legislative, Exemtive, or Ji
dicial, if in pnnomce of a Conetitntianal power, ii
law of the land.
Mr. PoaTlH^Tbeni ie a power vested il
dent and Senate to make Treaties, which duU be the
supreme law of the land. Which among as can eaH
Aiem to account ! I always thoa^t there could be no
proper eiierdse at power vrithant the sufiage of tha
pei^ : yet the Houae of Repraientativea baa no pow-
er to intermeddle with Treatiei. The.PreaUent and
■even Senators, as nearly a* I can remember, can nutka
a Troatj, which will be of gieat advantage to the
Noithsm Statai, and equal injury to the Southent
States. They might give up die rivers and territmr of
the Southern Stalea ) yet, in the preamble of the Coo-
■titulion, they say all the people have done it. I abould
be glad to know what power there ia of calling the Pra-
aident and Senate to atcount T
Mr. SrAioaT answered, that, under the Conledeia-
tion, two-thirde of the States might make Tieatiea.
That, if the Senators from all the Ststea attended when
a Treaty wai about to be made, two-thirds of the Statea
would have a voice in its formation. He added, be
would be glad to ask the gentieman what mode there
was of Calling the present Congrees to aocotmtl
Mr. PaaTia repealed bta objection. He hoped thit
gentlemen wonld not impose on the House ; tiiat the
President conld make iSeatiee vrith two.duide of the
Senate ; that the Preeident, in that caae, voted rather
in a Legi^tive than an Eieentive capacity, vrhioh be
thought impcditic
Mr. JasHsroB. — In my opinion, if there b« any dif^
ference between the Constitution and the CmMention
with respect to Treaties, the Conatitulian is more safe
than tbe t^onfederatioD. We know that two nanbeia
from each State have a right, by the Confederation, to
give the vote of that Ststa, and two-tbiidi of the States
have a right also to make Treaties. By this Constitu-
tion two-thirds of the Senators cannot make Traatiea
wilboul the concurrent of the President.
Mr. PonTiB. — That, as Treaties were the aupreme
law of the land, the Hooso of Repreeentativei ought
to have a vote in makingthem as well aa in passing
Mr. J. McDowiLi- — Mi. Chainnan ; Pmnit mo, sir,
fo make a few observations, to show how improper it i*
to place so much power in so tew men, wi^oal any
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669
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
MAitcii.1796.]
T^aty tnlh Chtat Britain.
[H.orB,
mpooaibttitjr t^tever. Let m eon«id»r what number
rf them is nM«ani7 lo Inns&et the m«t importnit
bnnnan. Two-lkirdi of the memben pregent, wifli
the Preaident, «d mska m TmbIj, Poarteen of them
■re m qvoram, two-thinlc of whtch we ten. Tbe«e t«
make Tmatioa uid alliancM. They may inralTe
■ny difficotties and dspon of m in any manner they
SteM"- ««y, eight a a majority of a qnornm, and can
a every thing but make Treatiea. How nnrafe are
WB wfaan we hare no power of bringing thoae to an ac-
ooant I ft IB abnird to tiy them belbre their own body,
Om lirea and our property are in the hands of eight oi
nine men. Will then fitlemen intnut their rights
m Ihia manner !
Mr. Di».B. Mr. Chairman, although Treatiei i
mere conventional acts lietween the contracting parti™,
yel, hy the law of nations they are tbe aupreme law of
fte land to their regpcctive citiiene or Bubjecta. All
ciTiliied nations hare concurred in connJering them aa
pwamountto an ordinary act oflegislation. This concur-
rence is founded on the reciprocal conTenience and solid
■drantagea iui«ng from it A due obeerrance of Trea-
fiee makes nations more friendly to each other, and is
the only means of rendering less frequent Ihoae lontual
hostilitiss which tend lo depopulate and rain conlenil-
ing nationa. It eitends and facilitaies that commercial
mterconrse which, founded on the univenal protection
of priThte property, has in a measure made the world
The power of making Treaties fass, in all
and GavemmenU, been placed in ^e Eiec
partmenta. This has not only besa grounded on the
□ecGuitj and maon arising from that degree of SMniCT,
deiiign, and despatch. whirJi are always Decenary ui
neKotiations between nationi, but lo prareht their being
impeded or carried into effect by the Tjolenee, animo-
■tty, andheat ofpMtte^ irtiich too often infbct nnmer-
ofubodiea. .Bothof these rsannspreponderateil in the
bundstion ofthispartof thesTstem. It is tme, sir. that
the late Treaty between the United Stoles and Great
Britain haa not, in some of the Sutes, been held as the
supreme law of the land. Even in this State, an actof
Awembly paased la declare its validity. But no doubl
<hat Treaty was the supreme law of ihe land without
the sanction of the Assembly; because, by the Confed-
eration, Congress had power lo moke Treaties. It was
one of tboee original rights of sovereignty which were
vested in them ; and it was not the deficiency of Con-
atitutionil authorily in Congress to make Treaties thai
podnrcd (tie necessity of a law to declare their validity,
hot it was owing to the entire imbecility of the Confed-
eralion. On the principle of the propriety of vesting
rais power in the Executive Department, it would seem
Wit the whole power of making Treaties ought to be
W te the Preddent, who, being elected by, the people
« d>B United States at large, will have their general
"Iwest at heart Bnttbat jealooay of EiecntiTepowcr,
Jraeh has ahmrn itaelf so strongly in all the Amencao
Ootnnments, would not admit this improvement. In-
'■^t, sir, has • moat powerfU influence over the luinian
■xiod, and ia tbe basis on which all the tranaoctiona of
■unUnd are builL It was mentioned before, that the
eitreaie jealousy of the little States, and between the
^merciBl States and tbe non-importing States, pro-
dUMd the necessity of giving an equality of suffrage to
the Senate. The same causes mode it indispensable lo
(ire to (be Senators, sa RepresenUtives of Slat«s, the
power ofmtking. or rather tatifrtng, Treatiea. Although
n iBilitale* againK every idea of joal pK^wmim, that
the little State of Rhode Island dioul.l have the same
euffivge with Virginia, or the great Commonwealth of
Maseachusctts, yet tbe small States would not consent
to confederate, without an equal voice in the formation
of Treaties. Without the equality, they apprehended
that their interest would be ueglected or sacrificed in
negotiations. This difficulty could not be got over. It
arose bom the onalterable nature of things. E veiy man
was convinced of the infieiibility of ibe little Stales on
this point. It therefore became nccossaty to give them
an absolute equality in making Trpntips.
On a due consideration of Ibis claosc, it uppeori that
this powBi could not have been lodged as safely any-
where else as where it is. The honorable gentleinan
[Mr. McDowillJ has spoken of a consolidation in Om
Government. That is a very strange inconsistency,
wl^en he points out, at the same time, the necessity of
lodging the power of making Treaties with the Rtnre-
sentatives, where the idea of a Consolidation can alone
and when he ol^ects to placing it in the Senate,
where the Federal principle
',B the Senate repreeenta the > „ .
hatever might aflect the States in their political capa-
city ought to be left to them. This is the certain means
of preventing a Consolidation. How extremely absuid
is it to call that disposilion of power a Consolidatioa of
the States which must lo all elcnuty prevent ill I have
only to add the j^nciple upon which the Geoerol Con-
venlioD went : That die power of making Treaties could
nowhere be so safely lodged as in the President and
Senate; and the eilreme Jealousy subsisting between
some of the States would not odmitof it elsewhev- If
any man will exarhine the operation of Ihat jealousy in
hia own breast, as a dtiten of North Carolina, he wiU
soon feel tbe inflexibility that results from it, end par-
haps be induced to acknowledge the propriety of thif
arrangement.
Mr. McDowALL declared, that he was of the sane
opinion as before, and that he believed the obaervatioaa
which the geatieman had made on the apparent incon-
sistency of his lemarka would have very htde weight
'th the Committee ; that, giving such extensive pow-
I to so Jew men in the Senate was extremely danger-
• ; and dial he was sot the more reconciled to it from
beiag brought abont by the inflexibili^ of the small,
pitiful States to the North. He supposed that eight
members in the Senate from these Stales, with tiie iW
sident, might do the moat important acts.
Mr. lM«ai,t,. — If this power be improperly vested, it
is incumbent on gentlemen lo tell us in what body it
eonld be more safely and pmpetly lodged. I believe,
on a serious cdhsideration, it wiU be fbund that it was
necessary, fbr the reasons mentioned by Iha genttemait
fVom Halifiii, to ve«t the power in the Senate, or aome
other body equally representing the sovereignty of Ihe
Steles, and that tiie power, as given- in the Constita-
ia not likely to be attended with the evils whidi
' gentlemen apprehend. The only real semri^of
liberty in any country is the jeakmay and drcumspeo
tton of the people tfaemaelves. Let ^m be watofbl
over their ralers. Should they find a combination against
Aeir liberties, and all odmr methods appear to be inant
ident to pieaerve them, Ae^ have (Htank Gad) an aM-
-^medy. That power which created tbe Oovsm-
kn destroy it Should the Gorenniient, on tria^
be found W want amendment; that amendment can 1n>
made in a i«gular method— in • mode preaeribed by tha
Oonatitntion itaelf. Maasacknsstta, Benlh Caralias,
Now Hampahln, and Virginia, ham d pmpaaed aoNB^
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
rR.]
Treaty mth Great Britain.
[Maroh. 1796.
menti, bnt the; all ooDcuned in the nsixmitj of m im-
mediate adoplioii. A CoiutitutiaDiI mode of altering
the ConditDtion iticlf In perhapa what has neTer been
known among mankind before. We have this security,
in additiDn to the natural watchtulnen of the people,
trhich I hope niU nevei be found wanting. The objec-
tioni I have answered deaened all pouible attentiou ;
•nd, for my part, I Bhall alwaya reapect that jealoiuj
which arisea &om the lore of public liberty.
Mr. Sfircib. — Mr. Chairman, I think that no argu-
ment can be used to ahon that this power ia proper. If
the whole LegialatiTe bod; — if the Holue of Repreaent-
alivee— do not interfore in making Treatiea, I think the;
OOKht at leaat to have the Mnction of the whole Senate.'
Amaidmait propmed to the CtitutHuiitm.
" XXm. That no Treaties which AaU be directl; op-
posed to the eiisting laws of the United States, in Con-
gren aucmbled, shall be valid, until auch laws shall be
repealed, or made conformable lo such Treat; ; norshall
anj Treaty be valid which is contradictor; to the Con-
■titutiou of the United States."
Mr. BocKNE said, he would not tire the patieoce
of ibe Committee by reading any further from the
debates relative to that point, but would ooly turn
lo what was said by ■ member who now belongs
to the Supreme Court of the United States, in an-
swer to a question asked by » member who now
belongs to (he Senate, whether it was not custom-
ary^ in England, to submit Treaties to the appro-
bation of Parliament.
Extraeta refirrtd to.
" Mr. BiooDwoBTa dedred to be informed whether
Treatiea nore not to be submitted to the Paiiiament, in
Great Britain, before the; were valid.
Mr. Ibsdsll. — A gentleman from New Hanover had
wked, whether it ii not the practice, in Cireat Britain,
to submit Treaties to Parliament, before the; are es-
teemed valid. The King has the aole aathoiity, b; the
laws of that oonntry, to make Treatiea. After Treatiea
are made, they are fluently discussed in tlie two Hoosea
of Parliament, where, of late years, the most important
nmMUrea of Qovammant have been nanowt; eiamined.
It ia oinal to move far an AddrcM of approbation ; and
•udi has been the eom^daisance of Parliament, for a long
lime, that thia* seldom has been withheld. Sometimes
I the Trea^ made ; bnt
e parpose of «onfirma-
uoa, Dui Ki maze alterations in a particular system,
which the change of circumstances requires. TIm Con-
■titational power of making Treaties is vested in the
Crown ; and the Power with whom a Treat; Is made
coBBdeiB it as bindil^ without any act of Parliament,
■nhaa an alteration by auch ia provided ibr in the Treat;
itMlf i irtikb, I brieve, is sametimed the case. When
■he Treaty of Peace was made in 1763, it contained
•tipulelions for the surrender of some islands to the
Frendi. The islands were given up, 1 believe, witiiont
any act of Parliament The power of making Treaties
is very impratanl. and must be vested somewhere, in
Older to eounteracl the dangerous designs <tf other coun-
tries, and to beafabtotsnoinaleawerwlMDitisbaguD.
Wen it known that our GoveitniMat waa we^ two
Would itootbepolitw tobaiesoBe power in this Miun-
ttj toobviata thv ttangerhy a Troatyl If thia power
- IS irqwdieieoslj limlLsd, the natioDS where the power
" ont rssftictioB wanU have graat^
the advantage of ns in negotiations j and every one must
know, according to modem policy, of what moment an
s4vantage in negotiation is. Tlie honorable member
iTom Anson Eoid, thai the accumulalioo of all the diAT>
ent branches of power in the BenSte would be danger-
ous. The'eipeiience of other conntriei shows that this
feai is without foundatian. What i> the Senate of Great
Britain t^posed to the House of Comi^ons, although it
be composed of an hereditary nobility of vast filrtlIIlei^
and entirely independent of Uiepeoplel Theirweight
is far inferior to t^atof theCominoDs. Here is a strong
instance of the accumulaiion of powers of the different
branches of Government without producing an; incon-
venience. That Senate, sir, is a sefiarate brand) of the
Legislature — is the great Constilutionat Council of the
Crown — and decides on lives and fortunen in impeach-
ments, beudes being the ultimate tribunal tor trying
ConljDversieB respecting private rights. Would it not
appear that all these ^inga should rend^ them more
formidable than the other Honael Yet the Commuiu
have gen erdly been able to carry everything betbre them.
The circumstance of their representing the great body
of the people alone gives them great weight. This
weight has great autbarily added to it, bj th^ poaeaa-
ing the right (a right given to the people's Bepreaenta-
tivea in Congress) of eiclusivel; originating mon^ bilk.
The authority over money will do everytiung. A Oo-
vemment cannot be supportsd vritliout money. Oni
Representatives may at any time compel the Senate to
agree to a reasonable measqre, by withhoidiag supplies
till the measure is consented to. There was a great
debate in the Convention whether the Senate should
havean equal power of originating money bills. It was
strongl; insisted by some that tbey should j but at length
a majority thought it unadvisable, and the dauae waa
passed as it now stands."
It appeared clrarly, Mr. Bodknb cod tended, from
Ihc debates he had read, that there was only one
opinion in the Conrention of North Carolina in
relation to the Treaty-making power being Tested
in the Prebidgnt and Senate ; and ibat Treaties
made by them were the supreme law of the land,
subject lo no check or control from the House of
Representatives. If such an idea had been eoter-
tained, would not those who in that Coovention
were m favor of adopting the Constitution, and
who almost despaire I of its being adopted, nave
said, in reply to those who objected against the
inreatituie of this power in the President nod
Senate, " Your rights are safe ; the House of
Representatives must ratify commercial Treaties
before tbey can be carried iolo effect.'' But this
was not said ; on the contrary, it wa.s said, that the
power of making Treaties was excluBively vested
in the Prebidiht and Senate ; that it was right
and proper it should be so vested; and that ttte
small Slates, in the Conrention which formed tb«
Constitution, trould not agree to give any mtt of
the Treaty-making power to the HoQse of Repre-
sentatives. That the nature of the Treaty power
showed the propriety of placing it where it was
placed, the numWs of the Senate were small and
most fit for this business—more so than a numer-
ous body where faction and parly might prevail;
that the power of making Treaties was vested in
the Senate, because it was a branch of the sove-
reign power. These obserTations hod been made
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Uabch, 1786.]
TrttOy with Great Britain.
[H.o
ID (he Coavention of North CaroltDa. Now, he
asked, if this was the construction of the Coaati-
tuIioD when it was «Iopted in the Kveral States,
would it Dot be a trick on the small Siates now
to cuDstrue it difierently, and mt that ao Treaty
was the lawof the land until ratified by the House
of Representa tires 1 He considered that the State
which he had the honor to lepreaent would be of
that opinion. He said it wcKild be a gross' TJo
lation of the Coostiiulion to maintain that tht
Phesideht and Senate could not make Treatie;
without the assent of the Honse.
But lie did not consider this principle as in
Tolred in the motion before ihe Committee ; i
was a question of expediency. The Pbgbident
was asked hv it for the instruclioni to his Minis-
ters and all toe documents respecting the Treaty,
excepting only such as relatea to any existing no-
gotiaiion ; he thought that the alteration of the
original motion whioh wat made by introducing
the exception had made it more objectionable ; it
was saying, "send us all the papers respecting this
negotiation, excepting one particular description
of them, wnich we think you ought not to send."
Notbingwas left to the discretion of the Fresi-
DEHT. Did any gentleman ever before hear of
an Executive being called on for the confidential
iostructioQs which he had given his Minister in
relation to a foreign negotiation ; for the coires-
pondenee between himself and his Miniater^ and
for that which passed between the two Ministers
representing the negotiating parties? Was it not
natural for gentlemen to consider that much con-
fidential communication takes place on these OC'
casions, 'which ou^ht not to be disclosed but to
the immediate parties concerned 1 The agency of
piivate individuals might have been used in efiect-
mg the Treatv^and was ilnroner that their names
should be published 1 Witn the facts he was per-
feeily unacquainted. TlieCommittee would readily
supptee he knew nothing of the secrets of the ne-
gotiation if such there were ; but he thoneht there
might be many, and they ought not to be dirniged.
Mr. B. added, that he believed the call for such
papers to be wholly unprecedented. Just before
the adoption of the present Government in France,
a Treaty had been ne^tiated through the agency
of the Committee of Safety with Spain. It ' ''
known tbat strong obiection.t were raised
Convention, who Inen tiad the power of ralifyine
Treaties, against giving their consent to thai ; and
though it was the subject of much debate, the in-
sbuctions and correspondence of the n^oiiator
'were not called for. Suppose tbe< Pbesidbnt
should be disposed to comtnuntcate the papers in
^nntion, it probabljr would be und«r an injunc-
tion of secrecy. Did the House mean to debate
OQ (he Treaty with closed doors 1 He conceived
not. But if the papers were not to be disclosed to
the public, they would not conduce to allay the
public sensibility in tespect to the Treaty, which
Dad been asugned ai one motive for calling for
them, though he did not think it real; for he
ihooght the addresses which had been made to the
fassioni in the debate were calculated to inorease
instead of allaying any icnsibiUty whioh may
have eiisted. A gentleman had said that he dis-
approved of the Treaty, insomuch that the Minis-
' r who negotiated it ought to be sent again as
inister Plenipotentiary to repeal it, if that was
e only proper mode to get rid of it.
The same gentleman who said this also said, if
he adored any thing In this world it was the voice
of the people, and that their voice was against the
Treaty. Mr. B, said, he respected the voice of
the people; but where were they to find the voice
of the people 1 That gentleman had referred to ,
the petitions on the table. How many had petH
tioned against the Treaty ? Were there as many
were necessary to choose one Representative
that House? No, not half so many. Was this
then Ihe voice of the people'! He thought the
voice of the people was to be collected from the
diminutive appearance of the petitions ihemselves.
The inferenre wns strongly in favor of the voice
of the pi'ople being, with the Treaty, when it was
considered what pains had been taken to gain pe-
titioners; he thought, also, the voice of the people
was to be collected from Ihe proceedings of the
Slate Legislatures, in relation to the conduct of
(he pREsinENT and Senate in ratifying the Treaty.
He stated thai the several branches of Ihe Legis-
lature of New Hampshire had been nnanimous in
their expressions of approbation. In Massacho-
■etts a similar spirit had been shown. The Oene-
ral Assembly of Rhode Island had been onani-
mous and explicit in their approbation of the con-
ductof ibePRiisiDBirTand Senate. The nnanimitjr
of Connecticut on this subject was well kno'wn.
The addresses at the meeting of the Legislature
of New York had breathed a similar spirit ; those
of Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland, also;
ihe latter had been unanimous in their resolutions
of approbation and confidence. He would not
travel any fHirtherj some sentimentsof a contrary
complexion had been expressed to the South.
The gentlemen had referred to the sensibility
which had been exhibited in the town-meetings.
Mr. B. acknowledged that much dissatisfaction
with the Treaty had been shown in most of the
populous towns; he believed, however, from re-
eentappearanceSjit WBsmnch abated. Thepeople
had been deceived in their expectations in respect
to the Treaty by several publications before the
Treaty arrived, having exaggemted its advan-
tages, and stated that every thing was obtained
which had been asked for. Mr. B. said, be should
not give his ideas of ibe Treaty at present, the^
would be reserved for a more proper time. He
believed that in obeying the Constitution, they
should obey the voice of the people. If a doubt
existed as to what was the true construction of
the Constitution, he believed it ot^rht to be con-
formed to the opinion which prevailed when the
Constitution was adopted, and he had shown that
the most eminent men had then but one opinion
in relation to it ; they all agreed tbat the power
of making Treaties was vested exclusively in the
PssaioEHT and Senate. Mr. B. concladed by ob-
serving, that he |iad not intended to have carried
hii obwiTKtioas to so great a length, but as the
State he reprcMnted wbs pati«a)>Tl; interested
.dbyGoogle
HlffTCHlT OF C(MffGHES9.
H. orR.]
Tnaty with Gttal Brifain.
[Maiich,1798.
in the coDsequences of the principles which bad
been KdTaiiced, he had been the more leDgthy.
Indeed hf did Oat consider these principles as ne-
cesserily inrolved in tbe qnesiioa now before the
Committee, but he confided that whatever misbl
be tbe fate of this question, from the knowledge
he had of tbe tnembeiB of the Committee, that
when they should come to decide on the question
of carrying the Treaty into effect, they would
duly respect the «aered obli^tions they Were un-
del to support the Constitution.
^ Mr. Bbent said he should not in the present
debate touch on the merits of the "Treaty, which
he conceived foreign to this question. On a mo-
tion to ask for papers with respect lo the Treaty,
he did not conceive with ^hat propriety the fit-
neaa of tbe instrument could be brought into view.
It would be proper, he contended, to have the pa-
pers ptoposed lo be called for, even if it was con-
ceded that the House had no control in matters
of Treaty ; for if they were bound to carry it into
operation, still the papers would be necessary to a
due undetstanding of the subject. The motion,
he argued, stands upon the same ground as the
calls so often made for information to the Heads
of Deparimenta. But even if the papers are not
necesaary togive ittformalion as to the laws which
it is said must be passed, they are necessary on
another ground. TheConstitution gives the House
a general superintendeace over the conduct of
ofiScers, and ine power of impeachment ; no mem-
ber denies this right, and bow can they exercise
it understandingly without infonnation? Can the
Constitution be supposed to ^ive this right of im-
peachment, and at the same time deprive the
House of the means of information f This would
be as absurd as to refer to a blind man to judge
of shades and colors. How can the House decide
on the ability or fidelity of the negotiator of the
Treaty, unless they have a sight of his instrnc-
lions, and of his correspondence? how can they
determine on the merits or demerits of the nego-
tiation 1
The turn which the debate had taken had given
rise, be said, to an important Constitutional ques-
tion,; he did not believe its decision of consequence
to the decision on the present motion ; but as the
debate had taken that turn, he should pursue the
same road In answer lo the arguments of gentle-
men. He laid this down as a sound inferencefrom
the provisions (rf* the Constitution on the subject
of the Treaty power: that the pRBeinENT and
Senate possess tbe right of forming Treaiiei, and
of carrying on the necessary negotiations with
foreign countries; hut when these contain stipu-
lations bearing a relation to the specific power
vested in the Legislature, the House had a right
to lake cognizance of it, and such Treaty could
not become the supreme taw of the land until
nnctioned by the Legislature. To show the just-
oess of thb patition,l)e should examine this sub-
ject, he said, in a threefold lighlL He should ex-
Btnine it by a tecnrreuce to tflewordsof theCon-
■titntioQ; then to ^opinioDB which prevailed as
to its meaning al ihe time it was framed and
■dented; aOd.lBatlrikariiokMeXMBiKewbateon'
stmction was best calculated to preserve the liber-
ties of this country.
The Constitution contains two clauses in refer-
ence to the Treaty-making power. The first de-
clares that the PaEainEriT, with two-thirds of the
Senate, shall have power to make Treaties. He
proceeded to inquire whether this rflause gives
them the right to make Treaties the supreme law
of the land 7 To determine this it was necessary
to examine the import of the word in those cnnn-
tries, where the Treaty powT hnd been frequently
exercised, and lo consult the opinions of the best
civilians.. The general power of making Treaties
is under the control of the Constitution. In des-
potic countries, where all power. Legislative, Jo-
dic-ial, and Executive, is in the hands of one per-
son, there Ihe Treaty-making power is without
control, and a Treaty as soon as made becomes.
ijmo facto, the supreme law of the land ; but in all
limited Oovernments, the Treaty power is subject
to the liAilations in tne Constitution. The prac-
tice of this principle may be found even in tbe
British Qovernment. There, though the King
originates Treaties as the PnEaiDEtrr and Senate
do here, they do not become the supreme law of
the land, respecting Legislative subjects, until the
co-operation of Parliament is obtained. Thus (he
power of making Treaties does not imply the
power of making Those Treaties in all cases the
supreme law of the land. If the Executive make
a Treaty involving none but Executive powers
strictly, then it becomes immediately the supreme
law; bat if they contain provisions, which involve
the Legislative auihority, the Executive can make
them but condilionaliy. and ihey do not became
sapreme until the Legislature chose to make them
so. The Brilisb Government furnishes an exam-
ple where this docCritie has been practiced, and it
IS by a reference to the practice of despotic Go-
vernments, that the mistaken idea is tabes up,
that all Treaties as soon as made become the su-
preme law of the land. The clause in our Coo-
slitutioB, he concluded, does not eive auihority to
Ihe Phesioent and Senate to make a supreme law
of the land.
When this clause of the Constitution is com-
Eared wilh the other parts of it, it will be found,
e said, (hat the above interpretalion is just ; for
the Treaty-making power is delegated as a general
power, while to Congress specific powers are
granted. The rational and admitted rule of con-
strDCtion in these eases is, that specific power re-
strains general powers; and herCj then, the gene-
rat Treaty power must be restrained by the spe-
cific powers of Congress. He admitted that tne
Executive had full power, under the general au-
thority vested in Ihem by the Constitution, to
originate Treaties and to carry on negotiations
wilh foreign Powers ; but thai if the provisions of
a Treaty so negotiated clashed with specific pow-
ers granted, the authority exercising those specific
powers must give it their sanction before it be-
comes the supreme law of the land.
He next turned to (he second clanse of the Con-
stitution respecting Treaties, which had been ^o-
lined in the debate. It says, thai the Constitution,
;dbyG00gle
HISTORY OF C0NGBES8.
Treaty mth Oreat Britain.
[H.opR.
\xvr3, and Treaties, shall be the supreme law of
the land ; and gentlemen cobtend, ne lemarked,
that though tbe first clause does not make the
Treaties entered iolo by the Executive the supreme
taw of the land, yet that this doeo ; but its oorioiu
and only meaning, when the whole of it is taken
into view, is, thai the CoostitutioD, lavs, end
Treaties of (he United Stater, are onlf meant to
be declared aupreme to CoDstitutions and lawa of
tbe indiridual States. It is Mlaiitt«d, as a sound
rule of construction, that to discover the true
meaning of any instrumeDl, it is fair to have re-
course tD the existing circumstances that produced
it. When the Consiitaiion was form^, it was
under a strong impression of the ioconveniences
eiperieoced under the Confederation, when great
obstruction was ihrowo la the way of tbe Treaty
power, by the Stales refusing to carry into exf cu-
lion those agreed to by the Conslitutioaal author-
ity. This was the evil the framers of the Coosti-
lution had in view when they inserted this clause,
and it has no relation to the powers of the Gene-
ral Government, which stand precisely in the same
situation with or without it. It does not declare
that Treaties shall abrogate laws, but that the
States shall not have it in their power to throw
impediments in the way of their execution. The
words of the Constitution cannot he understood
Dtberwise than that the Constitution, laws, and
Treaties, shall exist leather ; it does not say (bat
a Treaty shall repeal a law, or a law repeal a
Treaty. Then the Constitution certainly contem-
plated that they never should be in opposition, for
contradictory and oppasing laws cannot exist at
the same lime ; if they exist at the same time,
they cannot be in opposition to each other. IT it
cau be supposed that the Phesident and Senate
can make a Treaty in opposition to a law of the
Leetslature, and yet both Che Treaty and the law
be at the same time the supreme law of tbe land,
an absurdity is supposed. But if it be admitted
tbat the House shall have a participation in the
business of Treaties, in eases which involve the
Legislative authority, then the words of tbe Con-
Fliiulion become intelligible, and both Treaties
and laws may be at tbe same time the supreme
law of the land.
He fuiiher developed this idea. The Constitu-
tion says, that the Pbebideiit and Senate shall
make Treaties, and that when concluded under
the authority of the United States they shall be
the supreose law of the land. This is intelligible,
if the control of the House b« admitted ; for then.
if the PaEsinENT and Senate make a commercial
CoDgress repeals those laws, and the Treaty then
becomes the supreme law, and when it commoices
its existence tncre is no opposing law. On this
CQDstructian all existing laws will be supreme
lav; nn the other, though all are declared su-
preme, yet all cannot be supreme when there is a
elashmg, A Treaty made by the Pbebideht and
Senate, as far as it relate* to commercial concerns,
u not a Treaty made under the authority of the
United States until it has obtained the sanction of
the Legitlature.
Gentlemen say, that Treaties, ipiojacto, repeal
anterior laws clashing with (heir provisions: they
say, tbat the Constitution, laws, and Treaties, stand
Tn the same tboifng in the Constitution, being
declared the supreme law of the land, ff
Treaties can repeal laws, then laws can repeal the
Constitution, for the second (laws) are to the first
(Constitution) what the third (Treaties) are to
the second (laws) ; then, also, by parit]^ of reason-
ing. Treaties may repeal the Constitution. If all
stand on the same footing, and the precedence is
according to tbe point of time, the last law always
prevailmg, then Treaties may change the funda-
mental principles of our Government; then the
pRBBinENT and Senate, by entering into stipula-
tiomi with a foreign Government, may give us a
Monarchy, may convert our Pbesedeht into a
Kiog, and our Senate into a nobility ; for, say tbe
gentlemen, Treaties are the law of the land as
well as the Consiiiulion, and a subsequent law re-
]»eals these which are anterior. Bnt these posi-
tions are false in all their parts; a law or a Treaty
cannot repeal the Constitution, nor can a Treaty
repeal a law. If the manner in which tlje three
Aords are placed in the Constitution is Co have any
force, it would not favor the conslruclion of the
gentlemen; they contend , for tbe supremacy of
Treaties, whereas Treaties are last named, and
tbe true construction from this source would be
the reverse, when there was clashing. He nexi
adverted to the lengths to which the mode of in-
terpretation contended for by tbe gentlemen would
CBiiv them. It was never intended, he asserted,
by toe people:, when they instiinied this Govern-
ment, that the Treaty power should possesa tbia
omnipotence. It was never intended that the
Pbesidbnt aud Senate should have it in their
power to efleei a radical change in our Govern-
ment, and stipulate with a foreign nation for a
guarantee of i^e change. Laws contrary to ihe
Constitution are nugatory, and Treaties contrary
to eiislirig laws, the same; because, when in that
stage, they are not concluded under the authority
of the United States, but are only so (and then
there is no longer any clashing) when once they
have received the sanction of the Legislature.
From Ihe above, he concluded that the Pbesident
and Senate originate Treaties, and that the Legis-
lature (o a certain extent should exercise a check
upon this power. And upon these princinles the
British Treatf is not the sn^eme law of the land
until a decision on it was had in the Legialatiirc.
It might be supposed, Mr. B. obeerred, that his
opinion of the- trve ooBatractioa of this part of the
donstiluiion was a solitary one — that it was a
chimera of the imagination. Upon inquiry, it
would, however, be fonnd that this opinion was
advanced at the time the Constitution was under
consideration, in the several conventions which
ratified it, and by the most distinguished writers
of the day. A member from Massachusetts had
quoted parts of the proceedings in the Stats of
Virginia in support of bis construction of the Con-
stitution. He should not himself have brouzht
forward the authority of that State in favor m a
oontrary cQiuuiiotioii, had wii that gaoUeiaaa
.dbyGoogle
^T9
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Treaty wilh Oreal Britain.
[Mabch, 1796.
cited it •■ »uthorily of erttx weight. But since
he had endesTored to make use of ihe proceedins?
1 that State as an oO'eo^ire weapon, be would
eodeaTOT to employ them
Whaterer aspect the debates of the ConTen'lion
there might bear as partially quoted by the mem-
ber from Massachusetts, he was bold to declare,
that, on a careful eiamiaatioD, it would be found
that the majority in that body coostrued the Con-
■tltutioD as contended by the fiiends to the present
motion. By reading detached jwris a different
impression might be made ; but if the whole of
the debates were adrerted to, it would be found
that the President and Senate were thought to
have the same lelaiions to the Treaty -making
Siwer at the King of Great Britain has to Eng-
nd. Hefirstquoted the sentimeatsof a gentleman
ia that body, to whose abilities the adoption ofthe
Constitution was mnch attributed :
" The PrMidMit md SrnaU have Ihe tame power of
miking Treaties, anil when made dley ire to have the
nme Ibrc« aad validity. They are to be the aupreioe
law of the land here. Thii book ahowa ui they are so in
England. ■ Have we not aeen in America thai Treaties
were violated, though the/ are in all countiiee oinaideied
the lupreme law ofthe land ! Waa il therefore not necea-
laij todedare,ineip1icit Mrms.theyahould be so beret
How, then, ia thia Conatitation on a diflerent footing
wiA the Oovemment of Britain T The worthy member
K^a, the; can make a Treaty relioqniihiDg aur righCi
and inflicting pimidiBienta, becanee ^t Traatiea are de-
dared paramonnt to &e Conalituliona and law* or the
8tatea> An attentive consideration of thia will show
the CoiiiniiU« that tbof oui do no waA thing. The
provision of the lizth artida ia, that lliii Constitution,-
and laws of tbe United Statea which ^all be made in
puranance thereof, and all Treatiw aiade,or which shall
be made, onder the authority of the United States, shall
be the supreme law of the land! They can by thia
make no Treaty which ahall be repugnant to the spirit
of the Constitution, or inconaaleat with the delegated
powers. The Treatiea they make must be under tbe
authority of the United States, to be within their pro-
vince, it is euflicienlly secured, because it only declares
(hat, in pnrauance of the powers given. Ihey shall be th(
supreme law of the land, notwithstanding anything in
the Constitution or laws of porticulsr States."
He thcD cited the sentiments of another laem-
ber, who waa also an advocate foi the adopiim of
the Constitution ;
"The honorable gentleman on theothcr aide teOa ns
t and penetration, he would see the difierence
between a Commetcial Treat; and other Treatiea. A
Commercial Treaty must be submitted to the considera-
tion of Parliament ; because such Treaties will render
it neeeSBsry to alter some laws, add new clauses to
aanic.Bnd repeal others. If this benotdooe, tbe Treaty
ia *oid, quo ad hoe. The MLssiBsippi cannot be dis-
membered but two ways — by s common Treatj
Commercial Treaty. If the interest of Congress will
lead them to yield it by the first, the Uw of nations
would juatify the people of Kentucky to raaist, and the
OMnon would be nngalory. It cannot, then, be snrren-
"wdbyaoranmonTMaty. Can it be done by a Cow-
v1 Treaty 1 If it should, the consent of tbe Ronsa
of Represantativea would be reqniaite, because of the
correapondent alteration* that must be made in the law*.
[Here Mr. CoriiiniUuatTated his position, by readinglha
last elanae of &e Trea^ with F>anc«, whidi gives cer-
tain commerdal privileges to dn luhjeets of Fiance :
to give fall eflect to which, certain correspondent attsr-
atioiu were naeeaaiy in the oonunerdal rogublions.]
This, continued he, seeares Legislatire intai4anoc&"
He mentioned a third authority from the same
"I think the argument of the gentleman who re-
strained the Bujpremacj of these to tbe laws ofparticn-
lar States, and not to Congress, is rationeL Here the
supremacy of a Tiestj ia contrasted with the supre-
macy of the laws of the States. It cuinot he other-
wise supreme. If it does not supersede their eiisting
laws as &r as tfiey contravene its operation, it cannot
be of any eSecL"
It was at that day the opposers of the ConstitU'
lion who insisted, that the Constitution gave the
PRESiDEKr and Senate tbe unqualified power of
making all Treaties, and they contended that this
power would work tbe overthrow of liberty. If
the public sentiment of that day is to be recurred
to for an exposition of the ConstiiutioUj he wished
to know whether the sentiments of the majority
or minority were to be recurred «? Uoless the
gentlemen would prove that tbe minority gave on
that occasion the true exposition of the Consiitu-
lioQ, tbe sense of the majority must be considered
a<i expressing (he wishes of the people, under the
opinion which caused the ratification of the in-
The Committee had been told, however, that
the deliberations of the North Carolina Conven-
tion bore a different aspect. But here the gentle-
men had been equally unfortunate in their quota-
tions, for they had cited the sentiments held out
in the ConventioD that did not ratify the Consti-
tution ; that that Convention was dissolved before
the ConMitution was adopted ; that aoolher met,
who received and ratified it. and a worthy Repre-
sentative from North Carolina now in Congress,
who wax a member of the Convention, has in-
formed, that the cDDstruction given to the Treaty
Eower by the friends of the instrnment in that
ody, was the one contended for by the advocates
ofthe present motion. The first Convention who
misconstrued the Treaty power broke up without
lionin^ the instrument ; bat the second, who
itrued It differently, and who ratified Ihe Coo-
t undoubtedly be considered as hav-
ing really expressed the seniimentsof the people.
He was surprised that gentlemen should con-
ceive the construction now contended for as
novel; that tbe member from Massachusetts
should, in so earnest a manner, declare, that the
doctrine is novel, when by recurring to Ihe very
debates he produced, the con si ruction was une-
quivocally laid down. To make the assertion be
must entirely have loM sight of the various de-
bates and writiotfs of the day. He would quote
apassage from the work of a distinguished writer
ofthe any, who was in opposition to the adoption
of the Constitution, but woo, though he made va-
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mSTORY OP CONGRESS.
HiRCB,1796.]
Trtaty vith Oreal BrOaia.
[H.c
rious obJMtioni to the instraraeDt, and appeared
solieitoua to ti&d faalt, ^ ei construed the part of
the Goa^litutiDD now under cooaideratimi as the
frieods to the motion do. He meant the Federal
Farmer. The fallowing is the passage Tie quoted ;
" On ■ bir construction of the Constitation, I think
&e LegiilBture hu i proper control over the Preatdent
uid Senate, in Milling Commemal Tieatiei. Bj one
utids, ' the Le^lstnre shall haTe power to reguhite
eommeite with fomign iibH(hii,' &c, and bj snotbaT
utiele, ' tha Pratidant, with the adnoe and conaent of
two-thirdi of the Beoate, ihall haie power to make
Traatiaa.' Tbwe daiiMa mtut be coaiidered together ;
and we ought nerar to make one part of the aaina in-
tttunent exmtradict ano^er, if it can ba avoided by
any reaaonabls conalntctiiia. By the tint recited
dauae, tha, I^agiilatura hu the power ; that i«, aa I un-
dentand it, the aole power, to regulate cotomerce with
foreign nstiona, or to make' aO Uie rulea and teguLa-
tiona reepecting trade uid commerce between our dti-
lena and foreignera. Bj tha secoDd recited dauae, the
Pieaident and Senate have power generally to make
TiaatieB. There are seTeitil kind* of Treaties, aa
Treaties of Commerce, of Peace, of Alliance, dec. I
think the words, 'to make Treatiea.'jnaj be conaistenll)'
eonstnied, and yet so as it shall be left to the Legiila-
tnie to conSnn Commercial Treaties. Thej are, in
their nature and operation, very distinct from Treaties
oT Pesee and of Alliance. The latter getierallj require
Becrac;r= >' ■■ ^^ *"? aeldom they intetfata widi the
laws and internal poUoi of the connlry. To make
them, is prnperlf the exereiae of EiecutiTe powixa;
and ^e ConalituUon suthoriHs tha President and 8en-
ata U> make TnatieB, and gi*ea the Lagialatare no
power directlif or indirectly respecting these TreaCiea of
Peaca and Alliance.- As to TrBstiesorCoiniaerce,they
do not generally require sceraeyj they almost always
inioha in them I.egialative powers ; interfere with the
Lane and internal poUce of the country: and operate
immediately on persons or property, especial!; in com-
mercial towna: (they have in Great Britain usually
bten confirmed by Parliament) They coniisl of rules
and regulations Tenpecting commellce: and to rcgulstc
commerce, or toroske regatationa respecting commerce,
the Federal Legislature, by the ConstitutiaD, bis the
power. I do not sea that any commerdal regulations
can be made in Treaties, that wi'l not infiinge upon
Qui power in the Legialature. Therefore I infer, that
the true eonstruetion is, that the Praaident and Bsnate
shall make Treaties : but all Commerdal Treaties shall
be sobiact to he eonflnned by the Legislature. This
eonatrvctkn will render the clanaes coBBSIent, and
■lake the powers of the President and Senate, reapect»
ingTieatiaa, mock Ism eioaptionable."
He contended that the power of niaking Trea-
ti«a and of entering into roreign DegotiatioDs^ did
not impl^ a power of making them laws of the
land; and tnat, if the Constitution ofteant to
place Constitution, laws, and Treaties on the same
r(MtiD^,and that the PitGeiDENTaDd Senate could
repeal laws, and change the Conntitniicin, that in-
struneni waa monslrous indeed, and if it had
been so nndentood, could never have rKeired
the tanclion of the different Conventioni. It was
raiiGed under the impression, that the Prb3]Dbrt
and Senate had tt)e power of originating Treatieu;
bat that when they iorolred Legislatire consid-
etationa, thaf diJ not beoomtt Treaties under the
authority of the United States, until ther had
been submitted to the LeeUlatnre.
Crentlemen bad asserted, thai if the coDslraelion
of the frienilaofthe resolution prevailed, it would
be difficult to regulate our foreign concerns. He
couid not see the justice of this remark, for the
Treaty power had been exercised under these
modincatioDs in Great Britain, and it had not
been found defective in this particular. Indeed,
it is more likely to be e: - -■-•-■■■ ■'
not have been bronght ii
very Treaty now in oae)
Britain preciiely on the footing- here contended
for.
He mi^t have recourse to the pamphlet called
The Fei&rali»t. as another auth only to prove his
construction. ' He expressed his surprise that the
gentleman from Massachusetts should never have
beard of these opinions and authorities. The de-
bates of the Pennsylvania Convention, be under-
stood, were analogous to those in Virginia.
If the PflEBiDENT and Senate possess this un-
limited Treaty-making power, what security, he
asked, have we for our rights? He was not re-
ferring to the peraonn now in office, who might '
be all virtue; hut he was speaking of the conse-
quence of the principle. Though the Phbsi-
nENT and Senate of the present day might never
make an improper use of power, what miffht oc-
cur at a future day should be adverted to. Tor the
Constitution was not intended for the present day
only, but for future times. As highly as he val-
ued the Prbsioent, as much as he Felt for the
great servieea he had rendered, yet even him he
would not truHi with such unbounded po-frer.
Unlimited power was apt to corrupt the purest
heart, and be wished to do nothing tnat could cast
a shade over that character whicn had been the
adniiration of the imelligent world. But liberty
be considered as the best gift of Heaven to man,
and he did not wish to hold it by the courtesy of
The amendments proposed by the Convention
of Virginia were cited as proving that Virzinia
saw the Constitution in the light contended for.
If they are attended to, he conceived they could
not ascertain the fact. The emendmeDt in ques-
tion goes to providing, that no Commercial Treaty
shall be concluded without the consent of two-
thirds of the lower House; but surely this does
not go to prove that they conceived the House
had t|o roiee in those Treaties, directly m indi-
ir it be admitted that the Phdbidbn-t and Sen-
ate can make Treaties, which tpw/oato become
laws of the land, without any assent of the House,
without their being able even to exercise their
discretion in making appropriations, then the
House are a mere bo4iy for form sake. The advo-
cates of this construction had staled, as an exaio-
ple, the case of the Judges' salary, whicb the
Constitution declares shall neither be inereaaed
nor diniiaisbed while they remain in office ; and
ihey conlendedj that the House could no more re-
fose appropriations to carry a Treaty into effect,
than to leiiue to make provision for the nluiea
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R.]
TnaUi vUh Great Britaxa.
[Mabcb, 1796.
of those Judges. There wait, he coaceived, a
^ material distinclion between the two cases. In
the first the House were bouad by do Conatitu-
tional tie; in the latter, ihey lay under an express
iuJuDctiua o{ the Coaslituiioa, from which they
could not depart without perjury. When there
is a CoDSlitutioDal iniuactioa to appropriate, do
discretion is left to ttiQ Legislature ; but wLen
even a law is to be carried into effect by an ap-
propriation, the House may withhold it, and thus
indirectly repeal the law. The Conslituiion not
only intended lo vest in the House this discre-
tiooary power of repealing a law by refusing ap-
propriations ; but it was so attached to it, tluit in
one ca^ie^ it caaoot divest itself of it, but is bonnd
to exercise it periodically ; auch is the case on the
subject of military force; and notwithstanding
the important light in which the Constitution
views this power of appropriation, and the jeal-
ousy with which it is guarded; yet some mem-
bers are b&rdy enouefa to insist, lliai it would be
a vioJation of the Lonstitutioa
discretion. If the House should
cise this discretion, when they are under a CoD'
stitutional injunction lo appropriate, they would
be departing from the Constitutioo ; but if ihey
ue it to eSect the repeal of a law, they exercise
a ri^ht the CoDstituiion has given them, and of
vbich they cannot divest themselves, and a Treaty
cannot be looked upon in any other light than a
law.
He reo&pilulatrd the principal features of the
preceding remarks.
He [ben adverted to the charge of treason which
had been thrown out againat the friends of the
resolution; HOd remarked, tiiat the Coastituiioa
may be violated by other departments of Gov-
eintnenl as well as the House, and that if this
was treason in one case it must be in the other.
It was not for the PnEaioEMT and Senate that the
Conntitution was formed ; but for the people to
preserve their liberties, and that Coostilulion
would be infringed, if an intended check was
done away by a forced construe tixin. To give a
power, not intended when the Constitution was
adopted, to the President and Senate, was as
much oveituroing the established order oiCiov-
eroment, as to encroach upon their authority.
The aim of every man should be to preserve the
happy mean; not to suffer any department to en-
gross more power than it should have ; to pre-
■eive the symmetry of the fobric and keep the
balance; for whichever way it inclined, whether
too mach towards democrany, or too much to-
wards KxMQiive energy, in either case, the epi-
tbeu of revolutionary, Jiaorgauizing, 4tc., might
be apfilied.
An insinuation, he remarked, had been brought
into view, both uncandid and unkind. It was sug-
gested, that the present motion was brought for-
ward, Because the Treaty is made with Qreat Bri-
tain. Wbjr should rn embers impute to others im-
proper motives 1 The insinuation he considered
as unwarrantable and groundless. For bis own
part, he was free to declare, thai if the Treaty was
ibe iwa} that could he nude ; if it poured a stream
of wealth into thelapof our country, if made wilh
his most favorite nation, and it was attempted lo
be carried into effect by a violation of the Consti-
tution he would oppose it. Though a departure
from the Constitution at one lime may bestow
some fugitive advanlegea, yet he was firmly of
opinion, that such deviations would go finally to
Lis de^truciion. If a single departure from the
Constitution be once permitted, the Government
will subject it to constant violation.
He did Dot conceive, that the decision of the
present question went todecideany question with
respect to the Treaty. Though the present reso-
lution be adopted, he should still feel him<ie)r at
liberty to consider freely the merits of the Treaty
when that comes before the House ; by voting for
this resolution he should not consider himself com-
mitted. He did not wish to make up his mind on
the Treaty hastily; when before the House if ad-
vantageous he should give it his assent; but the
present is not a Treaty question, it i^ only a ques-
tion involving certain Con^^iitulionat powers of
the Legislature. He was not prepared lo give hi*
sanction to the Treaty ; hut if, upon full inquiry,
he found it for the interest of the country that it
should be carried Into efftrct, he certainly would
vole for iti but he must confess, that if the papers
proposed to be called for were not obtained, it
would make upon his minda disagreeable impres-
sion with respect to that instrument.
The Committee rose, reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit again.
March 16.— In Committee of the Whole on
Mr. LtvtNorroN'e resolution ;
Mr. Freeman observed, that the resolution be-
fore the Committee had nneipectedly to bira in-
volved in its dtncussion a question of a serious and
interesting nature. It was not his intention to
consider, at present, the principle advocated by ihe
gentleman from PenoiiylvHnia, that on all Trea-
ties embracing Legislative objects, ihe ultimate
sanction of that House was necessary to give
ibeni effect. Many ingenious arguments had been
adduced for and against the principle, and had
created such doubts and difficulties lu his mind,
that he could notnow solve them to his own satis-
faction. He regretted that any zeal had been dis-
covered in discussing a delicate Coostilu tional
question. He did not think much zeal had a ten-
dency to discover the truth. Men actuated by it
were generally like bodies which were coasumed
by their own heat, without imparting much
warmth or light to others.
Id the course of debate, gentlemen appeared to
have shaped the question to the observations they
intended lo make, instead of adapting their obser-
vations to tbe real state of the question. A gen-
tleman from Massachusetts had stated the real
question to be, whether that House should by con-
struction and implication invade, the powers vest-
ed in the other departmenls of GovenunenL He
did not think this a &ir view of the question. He
considered the. real question to be, how far the
Treaty-making power could he extended withont
infrin^ng tbe specific powers delegated to Con-
gress. He should follow the example qf other gen-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Trtaty wtfA Great Britain.
[H.d:
tlemea aod take meh a view of tbe subject as ap-
peared to him sufficieDt on the present tesoIutioD ;
and ibe qneslion with him was, whether the
House when called oaon to make Legis'lariTe pro-
vision for earryiaga Treaty into effect, had a right
to diseusa the expediency or iaerpediency of grant-
ing it. On this qoestion, hecontendedj the House
had as compleie and absolute a dtseretioo, as they
had OB other objects of l^islation. If the grant-
ing BO appropriation to carry a Treaty into effect
would produce greater erils to the commnnity than
the withholding it, he certainly should consider
the HouR« juBtiAable in refusing to make the ap-
propriatioD. Gentlemen have contanded that the
RepresenlatiTea were nader a moral obligation
resulting from a Treaty to carry it into effect :
But many circumstaneeB are mentioned by writers
on the Laws of Nations, which render IVeaties a
nullity of themselves ; and each individual, when
called upon to give or withhold his assent to an
-'-■=- bil
e and judge
tent of that obligation, and of the propriety of
giving or withhotdlDg his assent. He must be
governed by hi^ own moral 'sense, and not by that
which resides in the breait of another. The argu-
meni fonnded on the moral oblif^tion did not
amount to any thing. For in all cases of legisle-
tion where the most am{de discretion was adtnit-
led, if the fitness of a measure could be demon-
strated, the Houte were under a moral obligation
to adopt it. It was true, heconeeded, that aTrea-
ly with a fotvien Power was a serious thing, and
ought not. for light causes, tu be viokted. *"'
i aiid obligation of the compact would be
into view, on the question of th
cy of givioe it operation; bot gentlemen ooght
iipedie
found the freedom of the .will,
ight of voting, according to the judgment aad din-
ereiioo of the agent, with the strotig motives
which may be oBered to influence the decision
either the one way or the other. To say that a
nan was under a moral obligation to do a thing
without examining the subject, and ascertaining
the motal obligation by his own moral sense, was
absurd. He conceived that even where existing
laws asoertaiaed the compensation for certain of-
ficers, still circumstances might arise to justify the
Legislature in auspending the necessary appropri-
atioB for the payment. The whole resources of
the public might be absorbed in time of war in
providing the means of national defence. It might
become uadispensably necessary to delay the pay-
ment of the salaries dueeven to the PRBBiitBtn' and
Judicial officers, whose compeusation by the Con-
slilulioa is not to be increased or diminished dur-
ing their coDtinuance in office. But cases of ihi>
kind stood upon stronger ground tbaa compen«a-
tioDs to other offiaera,andappropriation9 for cany-
ing laws or Treaties into effect; neither did he
acreewiththegeatlemanfromSontbCarotina, that
the Pbbbidbnt dp t»b Umtbd States had the
■ame ticlit to refuse to fill an o&et created bj a
law or tfae Judges of the Smremc Court to refuse
to decide causes, tliat the House had to withhold
their asawt to an ai^ropriatiOD to carry a Treaty
4lh Com.— 20
effect. The only discretion in the first instance
.. not to determine whether he should obey the
law, bat to selectapropercharacter; in the second,
not to determine whetherthey should decideeauses,
lut the manner in which they should be decided.
And if either of the officers above mentioned were
refuse to obey the laws, they were impeachable ;
but that House was amenable to no tribanal on
earth for refusingan appropriation whenever they
thought proper to do so.
The gentlemao from Massachusetts had said
that he was advocatii^g an unpopular doctrine.
Mr. F. did not know why he should think so. The
gentleman undoubtedly aupposes that he has rea-
soned justly. If so, why sboutd he conclude that
a majtvity of the people will not reason as correct-
ly as he bad, and entertain the same Sentiments.
Mr. F. believed that a majority of the people g&a-
erally reasoned justly upon politioal objects. But
'' debate he did not like allusions of that bind.
A gentleman from New York had naid, that
venue officers might follow the example of that
House and say, that their will was necessary, and
refuse to execute a Law ualil it had their approba-
fiut did it follow from the doctrine tnat the
of the House of Representatives was
necessary in passing a law, that the concurrence
-of revenue officers was also necessarv '? The,
same gentleman farther observed, that the people
might say their consent was necessary to sanclum
a law. In the latter case the gentleman stood on
better ground. The content oi the people was ne-
cessary, and by their Cooititution tne Legishitare
the organ to expreM the public will. Impeii-
necessity might induce the people to demand
!W OTganizalioB of the Qovernment, but he pre-
sumed the enlightened people of America would
never seek an alteration ia the form t>t tbdr Qo-
ii, in any other than the CoDstituiituial
mode, uatil all hopes of saceeas in that way should
fail.
The gcntleraao ftom Massachusetts has said,
that the Hoase had no right to eel) for the papers
in questtOD, because they were the joint property
of Great Britain and the United States. They may
coatain secrets which could not be divulged with-
breach of faith. In sn]^ri of the doctrine,
the gentleman alluded to some principles in Fa-
Itf'a Moral Philosophy and VaittPt Law of Na-
trons. Mr. F. denied the api^ication of the jHin-
ciple to tbe case before the Committee. Where
two nations were in alliance and carrying on joint
op^etiODS against a common enemy, there might
be secrets waich naidier party could divulge with-
out a breach of faith. But the Uitiied States are
not in alliance with Great Britain. They »« con-
cerned in DO operations against a common eneiny.
What secrets could possibly exist between them?
Were the Prbsidbnt and Senate the depository
of the secrets of the British Court 1 He did not
conceive that they were upon so btimate a foot-
ing. Indeed he should conceive it to be the vilest
alum ay w
s publicly known. A Treaty of Amity, Com-
:ree, and NavigatioD, was a mere bargain } and
.dbyGoogle
HISTOBY OP CONGRESS.
pR.]
Treats ^o*^ Cheat Britain.
[HAicB, 1796.
the uegatiators would represent ihe situation of
their lespeclive countiies in the most favorable
point of view. W^uld Mr. Grenville beuay the
secrets of hb QoTeroioeiit 1 Would he rejKeseat
it to be exhausted with public debt, and criimbliDg
to pieces, oi exhibit its situalioo in the most splen-
did colors 1 On the other hand would Mr. Jay
commuoicate any thing to the British Minister
respecting the silnation of this country, which
it would he improper to be laid before the House
of Representaliveaf Sufely not.
A gentletnan from New York made some fur-
ther observations whii;h he should notice. He said
common sense revolted at the constiuclion put
upon the ComttiutioD. which be said had been
well understood from the scbool-boy to the Sena-
tot- Mr, F. did not know how well theeentleman
understood it, but for his own part be had his
doubts. The Judges of the Supreme Court and
other gentlemen ai abilities had held different
opinions on several parts of the Constitution. Wa:
it wonderful then that members in that House
should entertaindiSerentsentimenlawith respect to
the extent of the Treaty-making power? The same
gentleman said it was no matter whether the Trea-
ty was good or bad ; it was all stuff. That many
people weredetetmijiednotlo like it, before it was
promulgated. Mr. F. observed, that he should be
extremely unhappy that the people should auppose
that their Representatives assembled to support
aide, not to investigate truth ; that they voted on
way or the other, just as party spirit or preiudit
led them. Though he believed that gentlema
bad made up bis mind on the subject, bia mind,
and he believed the minds rA many others, were
open to receive such impressions as the argumenis
which might yet be adduced ought to produce.
The same gentleman had said that some per-
sons were opposed to the Treaty, because it com-
KUed them to pay their debts. Every one one
ew that the remark was pointed to a par-
ticular State. But he would ask what clauke in
the Treaty placed an individual debtor of the
United States in a worse situation, as to the pay-
ment of his debts, than be was before 1 He
could discover none. He could not, he said, place
bis eye upon a single member in that House, and
say, that he believed be wished to subvert the
Qovemment, or to destroy the peace and happi-
ness of the United States. The same member
had said, that the gentleman from Virginia ought
to be bold, and that he might erpetit to be cafled
jacobin, revolutionist, disorganizer, &c., a; ~
movers ol ancient landmarks were always
spc^ea of. Mr. F. held it to be criminal, not only
to remove ancient landmarks, but to suffer them
to moulder away through inattention. The pre-
sent question was not intended to remove land-
marks, but to ascertain and establish Ihem ; not to
invade the powers of any department of the Qo
remment, but to ascertain the true boundaries,
and the appropriate powers of each. The gentle-
man had said he should vote in the negative, be-
cause he had sworn to au[^rt the Conalitution.
Mr. F. said, that heshould contend for the right of
the House, not only because be had sworn to -
port the Constitution, but from a more generous
principle, because he was attached to it. He could
not give an impressive effect to his observations,
by appealing to the blood which he had shed, or
to a frame mutilated in acquirins the independ-
ence of bis cotuitry ; but if occas'ion required, he
was witling to mutilate the one, and to shed the
other in its defence ; but the man who means in
these times honestly to discbarge bis duty, must
prepare for a severe destiny; to have hia repul*-
tioo assailed by unfounded calumnies ; to be
branded with epithets which he does not deserve;
to havesentimentsascribed to him which he never
felt ; to be enlarged with base, dark, malignaai de-
signs against the Government, which the human
heart is hardly capable of conceiving.
With respect to the resolution before the House,
wben it was first laid on the table he viewed ii
with regret; but as the discussion had involved a
different question, if the amendmeet, formerly
moved by a gentleman from Virginia, should be
renewed and obtain, be should vote foi the resfr-
luttoo.
Qentlemen asked what benefit would result
from adopting the resolution? In the first place,
it would be conciliatory. Many members wished
to see the papers, and he was willing they should
be gratified. In the necond, they might explain
any doubtful parts of the Treaty. Ir the present
resolution was considered by him an encroach'
ment upon the Executive, he certainly should be
against it. On what principle was it that the
Representatives were ^aced at such an imraeuse
distance from the Executive, that they could not
approach him with decency and respect to ask
for information on a subject before them?
It had been observed that ihe papers might be
seen in the office of the Secretary of the Senate.
Why, then, should those members who wished lo
see them be compelled to go into the office of the
Secretary of the Senate, and depend upon the
courtesy of the Clerk for iDformation whicli might
as well be obtaioed in a more direct channel?
Was it improper (o have that information before
the House, which might beobtained in a more b-
ditect manner t
The negotiator has publicly quoted a part of
the correspondence, and, perhaps, if the whole
could be seen by the House, they would be con-
vinced of the general friendly disposition of Great
Britain towards this country-
Mr. F. did not conceive himself committed, as
be claimed the right of changing his opinions as
often as good reasons theretor presented iheia-
selves to bis mind.
[The obaerrations made by Mr. Fimtii were not
distinctly heard on account (A a hi^ wind. He has,
tharefoTB, to jnevent bcnn^ misstated, &vand ub widi
the following extract of audi of hn nc4s> as he spoke
&om. The inddental rephes which fell frem him in
answsT to obsarvatiDiia made in the eoww of the de-
bate, and the deMiUoi; eulstRemsnls wliieh he mot
into in qieaking from the principle* he had di^Brted
previous to his taking the floor, are not included in Ibe
following sketch.]
Mr. FinDLBT. — It seems to be agreed by both
;dbvG00gle
£80
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
Much, 1796.]
TWafy vitk GreeU Britaitt.
[H.<
parties, ihal the express words of the Constitution
will not suppprt either position without a. liberty
of constraciiOD. The difference of opinion is now
confined to what construction is most agreeable
to the genera! principles of the Constitution.
That the construction which gives the fullest
scope to alt the powers vested in the different de-
partments of the QoTemment, and which, by
combining their operation, is the best calculated
for the preseiTation of the Gorernment itself,
offers fairest to he the tine one, cannot reasonably
he doubted.
The Le^slative powers, to reflate commerce
with foreign nations, to levy taxes, appropriate
money, &e., are s^cifically vested \n Congress.
■nd as deposited in the Legislature, are securea'
by QutDerous negative checks, declaring what
things Congress shall not do, and guards regulat-
ing Ine manner in which it shall exercise its pow-
ers on the proper subject-i.
The Treaty-making power is not vested in
Congreiisj the negotiating part ot making Trea-
ties is paiily of an Executive nature, and can be
most conveniently exercised by that department.
and is, therefore, vested in tne Psebident and
Senate. The PaEsinEirr shall have power to
make Treaties, two-thirds of the Senate agreeing
therewith.
Even the power of negotiating, which includes
the timing of Treaties, the appointment of En-
voys, and instructing them, and approving of
Treatie!), so far as to present tuem for ratification,
are powers of great importaucc, and may put the
Government in such circumstances as to render
it expedient to ratifv a Treaty, which, if it had
not been agreed to by the negotiating agents, it
would have rejected — are powers of great import-
ance of themselves ; but it is acknowledged that
more than this is vested by the Constitution in the
Treaty -making powers.
The power of making Treaties is admitted to
be so extensive as to embrace all subjects arisiue
nnder the Law of Nations, for securing amity and
friendship betwixt nations, and for the mutual
protection of the citizens in their correspondence
with each other. Aathorily for this purpose is
not vested in Congress among the enumerated
powers, but express^ given to the pREainenT and
Senate ; therefore. Treaties, to this extent, ratified
under their authority, are (he laws of the land,
according to the Constitution.
The powers specifically vested in Congress are
so explicitly checked and guarded, as to form an
unequivocal limitation to the Treaty-making
power, when it extends to powers specifically
vested in the Legislature, consisting of the Se-
nate and House of Representatives, with the ap-
probation of the Presioght.
The Legislature cannot transfer its essential
powers, nor evade them ; the exercise of its pri-
vileges it may dispense with, but if it may eis-
pease with or transfer any one Legislative power.
11 mav, on the same principle, dispeose with ot
transfer every power with which It is vested, and
for the exercise of which the Legislature only are
responsible.
The Executive cannot assume or exercise any
power expressly vested in the Legislature. If the
Executive may, by an extension of the Treaty-
making power, leeulate commerce, make laws to
— ■ — and appropriate money, tfec, or, which is ihe
thing, command laws to be made for carry-
ing Treaties, which interfere with the Legisla-
tive powers, into effect ; or if, as is contended, the
Legislature has no moral power of discretion, do
~ )wer to refuse to make laws to carry Treaties
to effect, or even to form an opinion on the
goodness or badness of Treaties, when they relate
powers explicitly intrnsted to its delibeta-
"' " principle all Legislative dis-
irovided to prevent the abuses of those |>ow
■"or there is no Legislative power vested in Con*
gress but what may be either directly or indirectly
exercised by the Treaty-making power.
If the Treaty-making power is admitted to the
extent pleaded for. and the specific powers rested
in Congress are admitted in the extent in which
they are nnequivocally expressed, we are reduced
to a dilemma, and the Constitution is necessarily
admitted to hare instituted two interfering Le-
gislative authorities, acting in direct competition
with each other on the same subjects, and both
making supreme laws of the land ; which though
they may be nominally diatinc^ hare the same
effect on the citizens, with this difference only, that
we may be relieved from the oppression of lawa
by a repeal of them, but cannot be relieved from
the hardships resulting from a Treaty, without
' e consent of another nation.
In advocating the resolution befote the Com-
iltee, we admit a reasonable latitude to ^th (he
Legislative and Treaty-making powers. Where
the Treaty-makins power extends itself to ex-
press Legislative objects, and where Legislative
aid is a^lutely necessary to carry the Treaty
into effect, we contend that the Legislature, in
making such laws, exercise that moral power that
is necessary for legislating in all other cases, and
are not reduced to the situation of an executive
officer, or mere treasurers of the United States.
In this case, we say, that the powers are not in-
tended to make war with each other ; that the de-
rartmenis ought to concur in the exercise of them.
This method preserves the exercise of both pow-
ers in their proper places ; the other destroys the
Legislative autnonty which is, by the Constitu-
tion, the most explicitly vested, and precisely
guarded.
The 18th Legislative power vested in Congress,
which has been generally called the sweeping
clause, has been often objected to as, in a great
measure, defeating the checks on the specified
powen vested in Congress, and as endangering
the powers reserved to the Stales, and enablinig
Congress to enact laws of a questionable nature.
To tnese purposes it might have been improperly
applied.
As a shield, however, arainst Executive en-
croachments, it has always been acknowledged aa
proper and necessary. It not only vests Con-
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5^1
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
5d2
R.]
Treaty mUh Great Briiain.
[Marcs, 1796.
greaa with authority to carry the foregoing se-
venteen powers into efiect, but all other poweia
vested ia anr department or officer of the Ga-
vernmeot. The President and Senate, in the
exercise of the Treaty-tnakiog power, are a de-
partment of the Government, and, as auch, sub-
jected to the Legislative power of CongreM, of
which tbey are a part.
This clause would go far to prove the right of
Congress to exercise a formal negative over Trea-
ties of every description, before they become the
law of the kod ; and this was what the minority
of the Convention of Pennsylvania plead for as
an amendment to the Constitution. 1 did not
then believe it was secured in the Constitolion,
nor do I coolend for it now.
That the concurrence plead for is not impracti-
cable, as has been alleged, is evident from the
practice of all other limited and free Qgvernments.
It is an established principle, by writers on the Law
of Nations, and is a^eeable to reason, that Trea-
ties are to be made id every nation by those who
exercise the supreme sovereign authority, and this
is agreeable to the practice of ail nations.
In despotic Governments, the Monarch who
malies the Treaty exerr.ises both the Legislative
■nd Executive authority ; therefore, Treaties
made by him are, of course, the law of the land.
In Briiain, Holland, &C., where the sovereign
power is vested in different departments, tbe con-
•entof all the departments to a Treaty, which em-
braces tbe powers vested in those deparlmeuts,
ia uniformlv necessary to make those Treaties the
hw of tbe land.
That ibece ar« iuconvenieaces attending this
concurrence in making Treaties, is admitted.
There are inconveniences attending the operation
of aU tbe ciiecks peculiar to a limited Guvern-
meoi; but they have not been found detrimental
in practice. Britain and Holland have arisen to
as much grandeur, in proportion to their means,
and have been as successful in making Treaties,
as any nations under the sun ; yet Treaties,
at least ou Legislative subjects, in Holland, must
have the apjirobation of the diETerent provinces,
and in Britain, of ihe Parliament, before they are
the law of tbe kod. That the Treaty with Bri-
tain now before this House was laid before tbe
British Parliament for ity approbation, was an-
DtHiDced by the ktesl accounts from that country.
The cootlruction which gives a latitude to all
the powen vested by the Constitution, is most
agreeable to the division of powers, ei^seotial to
free Governments, and best suited tq the preserva-
tion of tbe Goveraiaent itself. A concurrence of
powers where they interfere in their ei^ercise, is a
•ft)utary guard against abuses ; but if, where itie
interference happens, one of the power^ must yield
•bsolute and implicit obedience to the other, with-
out limitation, as is contended, the submitting
power must, in the event, be annihikted by the
paramount power, or become a mere formal and
inefficient agent.
In opposition to the resolution, it is asserted,
that this doctrine is tiew. To me, the opposite
opinion is novel and snrpriting. The minority of,
the ratifying Convention of Petmsylvania has been
adduced to prove, that this was not believed to be
the meaning of the Constitution at that time.
Only the arguments in favor of the Constim-
tion made in that body were preserved ; but, being
a member of it, and in the minority, 1 nave a
good recollection of the sentiments expressed
Theadvocatesofihe Constitution, one of whom
was a celebrated DoUtician, and had
hand in framing Ine Constitution itself, n
ed that an effective, though indirect check on the
Treaty-making power. woi)ld naturally ^row out
of the exercise of the Legislative authonty ; that
'this would be a complete check on the exercise of
the Treaty-making power, so far as retipecled the
authority of Congress. This was admitted by the
minority, but tbey objected lo the effects which
Treaties might have on the State Governments ;
and that, in some cases, the Constitution itself
might be infringed by it. Tbe State Govern-
ments have since beec secured by an ameodment
to the Constitution. 1 did not( however, expect
lof a miDority,acting under peculiar
of irritation, and coitsisting of but
about one-fifth of the members, to be quoted as a
good authority for the true sense of the Constitu-
tion on this occasion.
There is a discernible difference between tbe
mode of expression in the article by which ihe
Treaty-making power is vested in the Executive,
and in the article where it is declared to be the
supreme kw of tbe land ; in the first, it is said ge-
nerally, that the Pbesidbkt and Senate shall make
Treaties, without defining the extent of tbe objectc
to which they shall extend, nor of their obligation ;
this, of itself, may be reasonably construed to ex-
tend to such objects as were not previouslv vested
in Congress. Thus, a man, in making his will,
bequeaths expressly sucb portions of his estate as
he thinks proper to his children in common ; and,
by a subsequent clause, bequeaths bis estate, in
general words, to his eldest sou. By a reasonable
coQstruction, this does not entitle the eldest son to
the whole estate, but to such parts of it as were
>t otherwise disposed of.
In the article where Treaties are declared to be
the supreme kw of the knd, they are joined with
the Const itutioD, the laws, and the then existing
Treaties, and in connexion with them, declared to
be superior to the Constitutions and kws of the
States ; but in this ckuse it is not said they are so
simply, as made by the President and Senate,
but as made nnder the authority of the United
States. The different manner of expression in the
places could nut have been intioduced with-
ilebigQ; it was OS easy to have said by the
Prebident and Senate, as under the authority of
the United Slates, if the latter had i
tended t" —
mlhority than the former.
It is no moreextraordinary tosay, that ihePBE-
siDENT and Senate make Treaties, while it is un-
derstood that, where these Treaties embrace Le-
gislative cases, tbey ought, for carrying them into
effect, to be submitted to the discretion of Con-
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
594
Mabcb, 1796.}
Treaty with Great Britain.
[H.orR.
gress, consisting of the Senate, the House of Re-
presentatives, anil the President, than it is to say,
as in the first section of the Consiiiutioii, that the
powers of making all law^ shall be vested in a
Congress, consisting of a Senate and House of
Represent a lives, while a reserve is understood in
favor of the approbation of the President, with-
out Nvhich no act of Congress can be the law of
the land, even thoueb sanctioned with the unani-
mous consent of botn Houses of Congress.
The small States can receive no injury from
the discretion of the Legislature being exercised
in tnaking laws to carry Treaties into effect; as
exercised by the Legislature, there is ample se-
cttrtty that no oreference shall be given to the
porta, or, by analosy^. to (he exports of any State,
large or smalt; ana it is evident that theTreaty-
maKiag power, not being bound by the Coostitu-
lional guards, may suppress or burden the exports
of any number of States. The first instance given
oper&tes against the exports of small States; wit-
ness the reslriclions on the exportation of the cot-
ton of South Carolina and Georgia, by the Treaty
as negotiated.
If tne papers called for contain inrorraaiion con-
cerning the state of the Union, there can be no
doubt but we have a risht to call for them ; on
this the question can only be about the expedien-
cy, and not the righ^ of calliiw on the President
for them. It b not because the Treaty was made
with Britain, or is thought a bad one, that 1 in-
sist on the right of Legislative discretion; I would
insist on the same right,let the Treaty be good
bad, or if it had been made with any other Eui
pean Power.
Mr. Smith, of New Hampshire, said, be bad
not intended to have delivered his sentiments o
die question before the Committee, but as he di
not fully agree in opinion with any gentleman
who baa spoken, it became necessanr nir him to
express the grounds of his opinion. This he would
do as briefly as possible.
The question was, shall we call on the Pbesi-
dent for his instructions given to the Minister
who negotiated the Treaty lately made with
Great Britain; the correspondence and other docu-
ments which relate to the formation of that in-
strument? He agreed in opinion with those gen-
tlemen who saw nothing unconatilut tonal in call-
ing for papers containing information upon sub-
iectsonwhich the House were called n^n to decide.
H<
was certainly within the powers of the House.
~ conceived they not only possessed the right,
bnt that it was their duty to ceuI for all papers ana
documcDis which could enlighten their minds or
inform their judgments on all subjects within
their sphere of sgencv. He had always been in
fevor of such calls. A Treaty made with Great
Britain had lately been communicated to the
House. It had been said, that this instrument was
uncoQstitntional. If it were so, he admitted that
It was not binding on (he nation, and that the
House were not bound to give their aid to fulfil it.
There were other oaaes in which he should feel
himself at liberty to refose toprovide the meant
for carrying a Tteaty into effect. These might
be denominated extrenie cases— cases of an abuse
of power, such as that of palpably or manifestly
betraying and sacrificing tne private interests of
the Slate. Such Treaties, he conceived, had no
binding influence on the nation, and this upon
natural principles. But it would no( be contended,
that the papers in question were necessary to en-
able the House to decide on these questions. He
>nceived they were not.
If tbeHouse of Representatives have any agency
the business of making Treaties; if their sanc-
3n is nece-ssary before the instrument acquires
ly binding influence on the nation; if it be not
ilid without such sanction, he conceived there
tis the same reason that all the papers which re-
late to the formation of (he Treaty should be laid
before that House, as there vras that these papers
should have been laid before (be Senate. Thb
had been asserted. If be believed in (bU doctrine,
he should feel himself bound to vote for (he call:
but be denied that this was the case ; and he said
that in the course of his observations he should en-
deavor to prove that no such doctrine was to be
found in the Consti(ution. As this question in-
volved the Constitutional ^wera of the House,
be viewed it as important ; it was a delicate ques-
tion. We were called upon to decide as to our
own powers. For these reasons he thought that
the discussion should be conducted with modera-
tion, coolness, and candor; that such a temper
was most favorable to truth. However gentlemen,
might differ, he observed, on other subjects, in (Us
we are all agreed, that, in forming our judgment!
on all such questions, the Comtitution must be
our sole guid% It was this instrument, he said,
which defines the powers given to the General
Government, and which diBiribu(e3 these powers
among (he several departments. If the Coostitu-
tion had not assigned to each its peculiar portion
of power, these departments, like the original ele-
ments, would be engaged in a perpetuiu war for
power. All would tie confusion, disorder, and
anarchy. He proposed, in the first place, to give
what he conceived to V the true exposition of
the Constitution, on the subject of Treaties in
general. He should then, he said, slate as cor-
rectly as possible the exposition or construction of
the Constitution contended for hv (he gentleman
opposed to him. He lamented that he could not
do (his with greater accuracy. The gentlemen
had not agreed among themselves. He could only
state what seemed to be the general current of
opinion. The construction which he advocated
was, that, by the Constitution of the United State^
(he power of making Treaties is exclusively ves(ea
in the Pbebident and two-thirds of the Senate*
That this power extends to all kinds of Treaties —
of Peace, of Alliance, of Amity, of Commerce
and Navigation, and embntces all those subjecta,
and comprehends all those objects, which can witti
propriety be the subject of convention or com-
pact between nations; that is, every thing iq
which they have a mutual or common interesL
That a compact so made which does not change
the Constitution, and which does not palfMUy
and manifestly betray or sacrifice (h« |viTa,t« in-
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
596
H. OF R.]
TVeofjr vrith Chtat Britain.
[M.,
teresU of the State, (which ia ioTalid on natural
principles) is bin<ling on the nHtion without any
sanction on the part of the House of Representa-
tives. That such a Treaty is by the Constitutioo
paramount to the Constitutioa and Laws of the
several States ; that the Judges in (he several
States are bound to obey it. That it is by the
reason and nature of the thing paramount to a law
of the United Slates,and abrogates and annuls all
pre-existing laws contrary to it, and, as long as it
remains in force, limits and restricts the power of
the Legislature of the United States to pass any
laws in contravention of it. That, when such a
Treaty requires money to be provided, oi other
LegislatiTeacis to be performed, It islhMuty of the
Legislature to provide and apnropriate the money
in the same manner as it is their duty to provide
and appropriate money for the payment of our
debts. That the nation must judge whether it be
constitutionally formed or not; whether the stipu-
lations contained in it be such as in good faith
Ibey are bound to execute, and whether any cir-
oumstanees have happened which would justify
m nOD-observaoce of it. That on these subjects
they must exercise a sound discretion. That nei-
ther (he nation, nor any departments of the Go-
Tetoment, are at liberty to reject a Treaty merely
because it is a hard bargain.
The doctrine on the other side
That the power to make Treaties is limited to
«uch objects as are not comprehended and in-
cluded in the specified powers riven to Coogresi
hf the Constitution ; or, thai a Treaty which com-
Srehendsor embraces any such object is not valid,
lat is, not the supreme law of the land, until the
Bouse of Representatives have added their sanc-
tion to it ; or, if this be not admitted, that the
House of Representatives, by the theory of our
Constitution, nave check on the Treaty-making
power, in providing and appropriating money
cessary to carry a Treaty into afiect; which pov __,
it is admitted on all hands, they possess ; and thus
in this way control the doings of the Presiocnt
«nd Senate, and can reject a Treaty, or at least
certain ^rts d( it. That they can and ought to
do this it they believe the Treaty to be a baa one,
though not injurious in an extreme, such as mani-
festly betraying or sacrificing the private interest
of the State, (which by the Law of Nations nulli-
fies such a compact,) and which on all hands would
readily be admitted as a. sufficient cause for re-
(dsing to carry it into execution.
He said he had thought it proper to present
10 the Committee this geoeral view of the sub-
rart of the Constitution might be discerned, aud
that his subsequent remarks might be the tietler
understood. He should now, he said, inquire what
were the objects embraced by the Treaty power;
how far this power mightbe extended t The Con-
■titntion declares that all the Legislative power
herein granted shall be rested in Congress, and
that the Executive power shall be vested in the
PKBaimMT. Heaaid it was difiietdt, perhaps im-
pOMiUe, -with perfect acetmey, to draiv the line '
between Legislative andExecutire powers. Some
of these powers were of such a nature that it was
easy to pronounce concerning them ; but there
were cases in which there was much room for
doubt ; there was a sort of middle ground, where
in practice the power over the same subject was
sometimes exercised by the one and sometimes
by the other. Accordmg to the theory of most
Ooveruments, the Treaty-making power is, for
obvious reasons, given to the Executive ; yet he
conceived that this power was, in its nature, more
analogous to Legislative than to- Executive power.
Had the Constitution been silent as to the organ
which should exercise this power there might
have been plausible arguments in favor of giving
it to the Legislature. But the Constitution had
not been silent ; it was extremely clear that the
Treaty-making power, to whatever objects it may
^ttteno.is vpsted m thcPHESioBNT,wiin this liiziii-
aiion, that the consent of two-thirds of the Se-
is necessary to give validity to the act. It is
also clear, that, according to out Constitution,
(however the thing may be in theoryj the
Treaty power is not Legislative, for all the Legis-
lative power is given to Congress, while this is
given to the President and Senate. It seems
scarce necessary to add, that these powers are ex-
clusively given, for Congress can no more make
Treaties than the PaEaioENT and two-thirds d'
(he Senate can make laws'. Do the Legislative
powers vested in Congress interfere with the
power of making Treaties vested in the Fhesi-
DEriT and Senate; and if they do, which shall
yield to (he other?
When it is said that Congress shall have the
Kwer to do certain things, for example, to t^u-
e commerce with foreign nations, il means no
iQore than (his, that Congress shall have all Le-.
g^islative power over this subject, not that the en-
tire power over foreign commerce is given to
Congress. Laws, from the nature of the thing,
cannot fully accompbsb this; they can have no
binding force within a foreign jurisdiction. If it
be said, that under the general power to make
Treaties is not included the power of regulating
foreign commerce by Treaty, (hen (here is no
power ves(ed in the General Government com-
pte(ely to regulate foreign commerce. Shall it
be said, that the Trea(y power shall be restricted
to the making of such reflations as laws cannot
reack and such only'? This is absurd; it would
annihilate the Treaty power. For what nation
would treat with ns, and by compact agree to give
ir citizens privileges, when our contracting or-
m had no power to promise any thing oa our
;half1 From (he nature of (he thing it must be
evident, that the Treaty power must extend t<
3 foundatio
.^egisli
Treaties do
what laws cannot do; on tin order to do this, they
must extend to some things which laws can regu-
late, with reference to ourselves. They must, in
some small degree, restrict the exercise of Legis-
lative power. Treaties, if made by Congress,
would have the same effect precisely. If they are
not repealable, all succeeding Legiskttirei are re-
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Tytaty mtk Oreat Britain.
[H.opB.
stnmed in the exerdae of the poirer of legidatioD,
by the stipulatioaa which may be io the Treaty
It is DOt correct to my, thai the Treaty po^er does
not eztoid to the objects enumerated in the Btb
section of tbo first article of the ConstitQiioii. It
does to most, if not &tl of them ; the hypothesis
therefore is inadmissible, that the objects over which
Congress hare Legislative power are expected
out of the Treaty power; tnotigb it is strictly
tme, that the Pbesident and Senate cannot legis-
late on theM objects in the sense in which that
term is uaed in our Constitntion.
By way of objection, it is said, that the Treaty-
makiag power is indefinite and iinliinited,'and
therefore the specific powers given to Coogress
should be consiaered as exceptions to it,orlimita'
tioos lo the exercise of it. The answer i^ that
it is ridicnious to talk of excepting L^istative
power from Treaty power, for Ihey are difiertfnt to
their nature, in their means, and m their subjects.
Legislative power can always act on all subjects
propel for its exercise. But it is not strictly true
that the Treaty power is indefinite and nnlimited.
The word Treaty is a technical word, and as cer-
tain and definite in its meaning as any word in
the langoage.
The Treaty power is in its nature limiied. The
PaEsiiMMT and Senate cannot, as has been already
sisted, alter the Constitntiaa or change it. Manj
of the cases mentioned by genllemeit, of the exer-
cise of this power, fall under this exception. There
b a naturu exception to this power which re-
spects the abuses of it, and which comprehends
many of the instances alluded to by gentlemen.
In all those cases, though a Treaty may have the
form of a compact, yet it possesses no binding in-
flnence, and the nation must from the necessity of
the case judge whether the compact be really bmd-
ing, for there is no common tribunal to which both
Crtiea can resort. It has been argued acainst this
:itade given to the Treaty power, and which is
no more than the words really import, thai a pow-
er so broad and extensive may be abased. Il may
he so, and is not ibis equally trne of all delegated
authority 1 By the same mode of reasoniog we
might narrow the powers of Congress, for tbey
may also be abused ; many of these latter powers
are equally indefinite and unlimited, and equally
liable lo abuse. Mr. S. iDstaaceit the power to
raise taxes, borrow money, declare war, oc.
It has been fnrther urged, that this consiruetion
goes lo annihilate theLegisliativepower altogether,
and to render the House of Representatives an
useless body. He denied the fact to be so. On the
fullest legitimate exercise of the Treaty power
thm would be much ground for legislation, even
on thoae snbjeets where the Treaty power was
most necessary and would probably be the most
employed. He instatjced, the making regulaiious
respecting foreign commerce.
As to many of the objects specified in the' sec-
tion c<»itai»ing an enumeration of the powers of
Congress, the perfect power of legislation remain'
ed. He mestioited the case of a Treaty ef Peace.
This did not pfevent Congress^ when there was
any sud&eient causa, ftoia declaring war, and they
igbtnoi to declare war without such cause. A
Treaty may stipulate for the payment ofasumof
money ; the power and right of appropriation of
this money is ao more destroyed or lessened than
the case of any other contract made by the Qo-
mmeot for the payment of money. Congress
may by Treaty be restricted as to some objects of
taxatioil, but as to many they cannot ; and no
money can be raised without a law for that pur-
pose ; it cannot be raised by Treaty.
Mr. S. then proceeded to ioquire who by the
Constitution, are vested with the power of^ making
Treaties ; or, in other words, whose sanction or
concurrence must they receive before they ac-
quire any binding influence over the nation?
He said, he would not enter into the theory of
the subject ; this was a wide field. Gentlemen
might amuse us, but it would afford very little in-
struction. We were not making a Constitution,
construing one already made. No words, in ,
his opinion, could be clearer thau those used in the
Constitution, all construction seemed precluded.
The President, by and with (he advice and con-
sent of the Senate, shall make Treaties, and Trea-
ies when made shall be the law of theland. Not a
f liable is said about the House of Representatives,
it had been the iDtention of the framers of that
, to give the House of Representativ
ay agency in this business, is it not reasonable to
ji... 2 :__ „ouid [laTe been clearly
adverted to the ar "
of a gentleman from PenDsylvania [Mr.
N j who had discovered this power of the House
interfere in the expressions usedin tfiat clause,
which declares the effect of Treaties ; that Trea-
endeavored lo show that this did' not prove tlic
doctrine.
But it has been said, with some show of plausi-
bility, that the House of Representives possess this
power, because it is of a Legislative nature. But
It has been shown that in £e sense in which the
Constitution uses the words, Legislative power,
Treaty power is not Legislative. It is true it bears
some resemblance to Legislative power; but is this
a sufficient reason for introducing the House of
Representatives into the exercise of it? Mr. 8.
said, it the House possessed the power contended
foT, there must be some way in which thb power
was to be exercised. He inquired, what that mode
Hecouldconceiveof bat three modes. By a vote
on the Treaty generally ; by passibgalaw declar-
ing it valid, or by means of passing appropriation
It could not be br the first of these modes, for
the House could only act on those subjects where
power was given to Coogress ; for they could act
only a> a constituent part of that body, and in the
way pointed out, to wit, a majority of each House
possessing a negative on the other, and a qualified
negative in the Executive. In this case the powers
as well as the mode would be different. The Pkb-
BiDENT proposed the act, the consent of two-thirds
of the Senate was necessary. Was the House to act
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HISTORY OF CONGRESa
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Trtaty iMtA Great Britain.
[Mabcb, 1796.
by a majority or two-thirds 7 If thesanctioaof the
House is to be ^iven by a law, thi» absurdity seeme
to be i&ToIved iu it, that a law is neces^saiy tu give
that Ibe force and Talidity of a law, which the
Constitution declares already possesses iL Be-
side, this law is either repealable or uot. If it be
said that it is lepealahle, tLen it must follow, that.
as its exisleoce was Decessary to gire validity to
a compact, its repeal must destroy it, and thus one
of the parlies can repeal a barzain. Ifirrepeaia-
ble, the consequences stated before, of its nariow-
ing Legislative ground, exists in full force as to al 1
future Legislatures.
Mr. 3. wished to in<)uire of the genilen)en who
advocated the doctrine, that the sanction of the
House was necessary to give validity to the c
pact, what was the state or condition of tht
stiument before that saociion was given'? The
Constitution declares that it shall, when made,
hind the Judges in the several States, and the law
and usages of nations consider it as made at the
time of aigniag, and complete at the moment of
the exchange of ratifications. Is Qreat Britain at
this moment bound by the late Treaty? Will
Gieat Britain be excused from delivering up thi
oMts till tbey hear that this sanction is eiven'i
Suppose they should deliver them up, ana then
the House sbould refuse their sanction 7
Respectijig apiwopriaiioo laws, at present he
would otdy say, that these laws Were always
founded on the idea of a pie-eiistent law or com-
pact already made and valid, and barely made
Diovision for the fulfilling them. It was ridicu~
lous to say, that providing the means of paying a
debt or fuifilling a contract, created the debt or
g^ve anv validity to the contfaet which it did not
posseH Wore.
He then proceeded to inquire what were the
effects of a Treaty when made 7 From the na-
tiue of the thing it must be evident that both par-
ties were bound by it. He contended also, that it
must be good lor the whole or for nothing. He
adverted to what fell fioiu a gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. PaqeJ that the amity part was good
and the rest void. He asked how Lt was with that
part which respected navigation'! He believed the
geatlena»n would find it difficult to separate the
parts from each other. It is not pretended but thai
a Treatv of Peace is within the Treaty power, and
not witnia the specified powers given to Con-
gress; yet it is difficult to conceive of sucha Trea-
ty, which shall not contain settlement of bounda-
ry, dbc., these things may be the consideration on
woich the peace is granted by one of the parties ;
shall the consideration be void, and yet the peace
good? That article which oneoftheparlte-icbooses
to consider as void, may have been the only rea-
son, al least among the reasons which induced the
making of the other articles, which are to be con-
sidered as good. This was strange doctrine. Mi.
S. also contended, thata Treaty must abrogate all
pie-existent latvs contrary to it, from the nature
of the thing. He did not derive any argument
from the words of the Constitutioik, that Treaties
should be the supreme law of the land ; but he in-
sstedas the Constitution had given them the force
of laws, they must have this cunoog other efleeta,
that of repealing former one*, every later law re-
pealed all former ones inconsistent with il. He
saw no difficulty in this. The nation by one organ
make a law, by^ another or^n they repeal it.
Treaties, he insisted, had this effect before the
adoption of the present Constitutitm. He refer-
red to the correspondence between the Secretary
of State and the British Minister in proof of this.
Mr. S. said, he would trouble the Committee
with one further inquiry only, and that was as to
the nature of the check or control which this
House have over the Treaty-making power in pass-
ing appropriation taws or by any other means.
He agreed in opinion with Ine^ntleman from
Virgmia [Mr. Giles! that the Constitutioa was
full of checks and oalaoces. and therefore b«
tbought we ought not to travel out of it for checks^
Tharwe could not add any not to be found in the
instrument itself. In this way we might, and he
was afraid, would, give a check to the wheels of
Government, which would make them stand still.
He would not say that eentlemen intended this,
but he was persuaded this was the effect their
measures were calculated to pioduce. Over Trea-
ties which required no Legislative act to carry
thetn into execution, the House certainly had no
control, if the Treaties were of such a itature as
to be binding in good faith on the nation. The
Legislature had indeed the power to violate them ;
they could declare war immediately after a Trea-
ty of Peace was concluded. If a Treaty require
any Legislative aid, such as money to carry it
into execution, to fulfil any stipulation contained
in it, the House of Representatives could refuse to
give this aid, and the Treaty would be bloke by
the denial. He admitted there were cases where
they could with propriety lefiise to fulfil. The
cases bad been mentioned — uncoustitutional Trea-
ties, or abuses of power in any of the extreme
cases, were instances of the kind to which he
alluded, He would add another ease, where the
Treatv in the opinion of the nation is broken by
the older party, or a disposition to break it is so
manifest as not to be mistaken. In every such case
the House must judge whether the Treaty be
valid or uot. The question will not be whether it
is a good bargain or not, but whether it is a bar-
gain honestly and fairly entered into. The Trea-
ty, he believed, received all the validity or force
it was susceptible of before the House of Repre-
sentatives could act upon it. Our carrying it mto
execution added notning to its validity ; oar re-
fusing did not weaken tTie obligation, or destroy
the compact, any more than the refusing to pajr a
debt we justly owe destroys the contract t>y which
the debt has a legal existence. On the question
whether the compact was of snch a nature ai to
be binding on the nation, he had no doubt but the
House had the fullest and most pecfect discretioni
instead of saying that we ought to act without
discretion, he was of opinion that we had no right
The power which he supposed existed in the
House, existed in every othei department of the
OovernmaQtj it is incorrect to say, that thtUonw
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HISTORY OF CONGBESa
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TVeoly mtk Great Britain.
[H-oi
a Treatf mar really be a. hard bar^ia thi
more justifies the non-obserTaoce of it than an in-
dividual can be justi6ed in refusing to fulfil a le-
gal contract more faroiaUe Id the other party than
to himself. He honed gentlemen would not take
the advice given tnem, to throw awav their dis-
cretion. He was of opinion thej would stand in
need of all they had. and advisea them to keep it,
and exercise it on all profjet subiecls. A gentle-
man fiaiD Virginia had insisCen on it that he
iroold not part with his moral sense. If some of
the opinions which that gentleman had just deli-
Tered loight be considered as a specimen of his
morality, he must say, he liked that gentleman's
sense much better than his moral sense.
Mr. S. concluded with observing, that he had
taken that view of the subject which appeared to
him to be the most proper. The arguments he
had Died, and the construction he had given to the
CoQstitation, however other gentlemen might
new the suoject, were such as were perfectly
satisfactory to his own mind.
Mr. William Lyman began with remarking,
that the gentlemen opposed to the resolution had
at first contended, that the House had not a Con-
stitutional right to require papers of the Eiecu-
Uve, relative to any subject whatever; and that
if a icijnisition was made, it would be discretion-
ary with the Executive, whether it should be
complied with or not.
To this he replied, that the House possessed the
power of impeachment solely, and that this autho-
rity certainly implied the right to inspect every
paper and transaction in any department, other-
wise the power of impeachment could never be
exercised "with any effect. But not to rely solely
Qa this, he recollected one cage, he said, perfectly
in point, which was in the correspondence of the
former Secretary of State [Mr. JEFrEHBod] with
the British Minister, communicated to the House.
From dates and references, there appeared in that
correspondence a chasm. The House, therefore,
mssea z resolution requesting the Executive to
Lay before them what had been omitted ; and fur-
ther, the resolution in that case was offered by the
gentleman from South Carolina, [Mr. Smith,]
who was now so vehemently opposed to the pre-
sent. The right of calling for papers was sanc-
tioned, he said, by the uniform and undeniable
practice of the House ever since the organization
of the Government; they had called for papers
and information whenever it was jndged expe-
dient; and he asserted, that the House had the
follest right to the possession of any papers in the
Exetutive department ; they were constituted the
especial guardians of the people for that purpose ;
aiid he would undertake to say, that this was the
first time it had ever been controverted.
However, he should not longer dwell upon this
point, as it had been abandoned, nor would he
charge the gentlemen with inconsistency in so
doing; he thought they acted very judiciously in
giving up a position ao untenable.
Aa the authority of the House was therefore
admitted, the only question was, whether it should
be exercised; and this, he said, brought into
consideration their Constitutional powers with
those of the other branches of (he Government,
and whatlimits had been marked to each; to what
objects the Legislative powers extended, and with'
bat hounds the power of making Treaties
restrained, and in what manner they were
controlled by the Legislative power.
The House would therefore contemplate them-
Ives as sitting and acting in a judicial capacity,
determine the extent of their powers ; and as,
I the one hand, he trusted that no motives of an
!ng partiality to themselves would* in any
surrender any of those which had been
delegated to them. He said, he considered ap-
peals to fears and panics, as made for the want of
lolid argument ; and that all addresses to (he pas-
iions implied a real fear to apply to the under-
itanding. His passions, tie said, he believed, would
lever be so operated upon, as to overwhelm his
judgment, and that all attempts of that sort would
be without the least effect. Those attemnts to
alarm, he thought, might very well be abandoned,
a.t wholly irrelevant ; and that then the discussion
would be, as it oughL the investigation of truth.
If, upon a candid and temperate inquiry, (he re-
sult should he, that the House had a. Gonstitution-
al authority to judge of the exjiediency or inenpe-
;y of carrying the Treaty into effect, it must
be obvious to every one, that they ought to have
the possession of tne papers required in the reso-
lution. This must be admitted even by the gen-
tlemen opposed to it J and he did not see, in that
case, how they could withhold their vole.
In order to ascertain the powers of the House,
he would advert to the Constitution. In the first
article and first section, it was declared, "' that alt
Legislative powers therein granted, were vested
in a Congress, to consist of a Senate and House
of Representatives;" and in the eighth section of
the same article, the powers granted were defined
and specified, such as to lay and collect taxes, bor-
row money, regulate- commerce, and to exercise
other important powers enumerated in the several
clauses of that important section. He said it was
unnecessary to read them,a3 they had been so fre- .
quenily referred to in the course of the debate;
but he would request gentlemen to pause and re-
flect whether it could be supposed that this sec-
tion was not to be efficacious and operative ; was
it possibly conceivable that a section sodefinite and
so important had been introduced in the Consti-
tution merely for the purpose of being nullified
and rendered nugatory by a subsequent article or
section? The very supposition, he said, appeared
to him the height of absurdity, and an affront to
common sense ; and yet this would be the case, if
the doctrines advanced were true, viz : that Trea-
ties, when made and ratified by the PaBBinEWT
and Senate, were supereme law, and that they
controlled and repealed all laws that stood in their
way. Congress could neither regulate commerce,
borrow money, prescribe rules of naturalization,
norlegislateonanyothersubjectihecausethePsBsr-
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DENT and Senate, by Treaty, would abrogate ihem
all. It was in vain to consult the House of Repre-
tentatives in the formation of lawa, if they tlius
were liable to be annulled at the pleasure of the
PBESinENT aud Senate. The present question,
he said, was not, whether the House shoiud make
Treaties, but whether the Paesident and Senate
should make laws ; all the power cootended for
00 the part of the House was the power of self-
preservation j it was a repelling power, a power
to prevent the Frebidbnt and Senate, under the
color of making Treaties, from tuakms all the
laws. A gentleman from Connectical [Mr, Gbis-
wold] had said, that the Legislative power occu'
pied all ground, and was vested in Congress ; and
thatthe Treaty-making po wer occupied all ground^
and was vested in the President and Senate ; and
that although Congress, who were the agents for
the people, should make laws, yet, that the Presi-
dent aud Senate, who were also their aecnis,
might, by Treaty, repeat them. This, Mr. L.
said, contradicted a sound axiom, and one he had
never before heard controverted, viz: that it re-
quired the same power to repeal as to make alaw.
Such incongruities as the gentleman had advanced,
Mr. L. said, could never be reduced to practice j
two persons could not be possessed fully and com-
^etely of the same thing and at the same time.
The gentleman could never reconcile his posi-
tions, the one would certainly defeat the other j
upon his construction, the Treaty-makinz power
must absorb the Legislative power, or the Legisla-
tive power would absorb the Treaty-making pow-
er. This, then, induced the necessity of a differ-
ent constrnciion. In the interpretation aUd con-
slruction of laws or Constitutions, the following
rules had always been deemed sound : First, to
tegard the true spirit and meaning, and not mere-
a the letter. It was a maxim very ancient, and at
e same time very common, that qui haret in li-
tera hoaret in cortice; that is, that he who ad-
hered only to theletler stuck in the bark, and never
arrived at the pith. Another rule was, to resort
to the context or other parts ^of a law or writing
for a true iaterpretalion, and not unfrequenlly
even to the preamble and title, which had very
justly and emphatically been termed a window to
let in light upon the subject. By viewing certain
parts, aSstracied and detached from other parts of
the same writins or instrument, it might be ren-
dered absurd and contradictory. An example he
would offer from the Constitution of the United
States : lu the second article and third section it
was declared, that in case of disagreement of llie
two Houses of Congres.1, with respect to the time
of adjournment, that the FHEainENT might adjourn
them tosuch time as he should think proper; but
was it supposed that he could adjourn them for
two, ten, or twenty years'? No, it could not be
pretended; for, in another part of the Constitu-
tion, it was declared, that they shoptd meet once
every year, and that such meeting ^ould be on
the nrstMondayof December, unless they, by law,
should appoint a different day or time. Taking
both these parts of the Constitution together, it
resulted, that in the case of disagreement between
the two Houses with respect to the time of ad-
journment, that the Pbesideht could adjourn
them to such time only as he should think proper
within the time fixed in the Constitution, oi by
law, for their annual meeting. Even tlie gos-
pels of Heaven might, he said, by disconnecting
and considering only detached parts, be rendered
blasphemous. For example : " the foot bath said
iu his heart there is no God." If only the latter
part of this verse or clause should be Tei(d,the po-
sition would be, that there is no God;' whereas,
-when the whole verse or clause is laken together,
imputes the conception only to ajool.
It appeared, therefore, to him, that Constitu-
tions, lawsj and all writings, ought to receive such
interpretation and construction as to render Ihem
constsieni with themselves ; and that it was high-
ly presumptive a consiruciion was erroneous when
it produced an absurd conclusion. If the several
parts of the Constitution were compared and criti-
cally examined, the determination must be, that,
although the President aiid Senate could make
Treaties, yet it could not be intended, those Trea-
ties that entrenched on the specific LegiElalive
powers of Congress, unless with their concurrence
and consent; otherwise, it followed, that,although
the three branches were consulted in the enacting
laws, two might repeal them. But it had been as-
serted that this power, insisted upon on the part
of the House, was a novel doctrine, introduced
merely upon the spur of the present occasion;
notwithstanding which, it had I>een proved by se-
veral gentlemen who bad spoken upon the quea-
lion, that this interpretation was given to the Con-
iF the Sute Conventions at the
of its adoption; that the same interpretation
had also been e
t that t
^ by the
from the extracts of publications at that period.
that whatever might have been the diversity <a
opinion in other respects relative to the Constitu- .
tion, that, in this, construction, at least, both its
friends and opposers perfectly agreed. This prin-
ciple,^ then, being thus settled and understood, it
remained only to show that it had been invaiiably
admitted and recognised from the first or^uization
of the Government until this time. The first
Treaty that had been made under this Constitu-
tion, he said, was that with the Creek Indians, in
the year 1789; previously to the making of which,
the President communicated the subject to Con-
gress ; an extract from which commuulcalinn he
would read viz : " If it should be the judgment of
Congress, that it would be most eip^ient to ter-
minate all differences in the Southern District,
and to lay the foundation for future confidence by
an amicable Treaty with the Indian tribes in that
quarter, I think proper to suggest," dec. Here,
Mr. L. said, he wished it mi^t be particularly
noticed, that this subject was expressly referred to
''" judgment of Congress ti ' ' . -. _
Pbehident possessHd the full power of making
Treaties, there could be do occasion for consulting
the House of Representatives; and yet, in this
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Treaty vt(& Great Britain.
ease, the first thai presented ilseir, it had been con-
ceired necessary. In coDsequence of this commu-
nication, Congress had judged it expedient to hold
the Treaty, and on the 20th of Aiigast, the same
year, enacted a law in which the sum of twenty
thousand dollars was appropriated for that pur-
pose; and. in conformity thereto, the Pbesident
appointed Commissionets and gave them iuslruc-
tious, which instructions had been also communi-
cated to Congress, from which he wcutd also read
one paragraph; it was as follows; "You will ob-
serre that the whole sum that can be constitution-
ally eipended for the proposed Treaty shall not
exceed twenty thousand dollarE." On this, he
said, any commentary was unuecessnry, as the
; power of making Treaties, was so
fully and explicitly recognised and admitted by
the PaBaiDENT himself. By pushing inquiry fur-
ther, it would be found that, ju January, 1790. in
consequence of communications from tne Execu-
tive which were referred to a select committee,
and a report made thereon, the House came to the
folio-wing resolution, to wit: "That proriaion
ought to be made by law for holding a Treaty
with the Wabash, Miami, aud other Indian tribes
Northwest of the riyer Ohio," In March follow-
ing, a taw was made, the title of which was '' An
act entitled an act providing for balding a Treaty
to establish peace with certain Indian tribes.''
In March, 1791, the sum of twenty thousand
CO. In March, 1793, one hundred thousand dol-
lars were appropriated to defray the expense of a
Treaty with the Indian tribea Northwest of the
river Ohio.
Thus it was apparent that laws had always been
deemed necessary to provide for holding Treaties
and for defraying the expenses tbereaT. How-
-■.■ .. ...- .1 . ;s(iga[ion
: following paragraphs would be found,
" Ilay befiHe yon a Report of the Seontary of State
on the mnemrrrs taken for obtaining a recogoitioD of
the Ttsaty with the Emperor of Morocco."
" Alio, I mart add, that the Bpaniidt RepreaentatiTei
now peroeiTiiig that their lait eonununieationi had made
eoQiideraUfl imprenion, endeavored to abate thii by
*ame n)baequenl pro&anons. which being among thd
coDimunicationi to the Legiilatuie, they wDl be able to
tem their own condnMonc"
But this, be said, was not all that miEht hb ad-
duced, from eren the Journals upon tne Cterh's
table, to illustrate the 'question. In the Report
of the late Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Ham-
fllOD, j^made to the Honie on the 6th January,
1791, in eonfotmity to their order of ihe ISth
<)>r of Janoary, 1790,) of a plan for the establish-
meDtofaMiQtghe'wonld beg leave to notice, for
the consideration of the Committee, a few clauses,
•» follows;
"la ndet to a light judgment of what onght to be
wa, the Mlowtng particoUia require to be diiirmisd :
liL What ou^t to be the aatore of the nKmey-nnit^
(he United Sutaat U. What the proportioD between
gold and silver, if coins of both matab are to be «Ma-
blished t 3d. What the proportian and oompoeidon of
alloy in each kind t 4th. Whether the expenee of coin*
nominBtioa, nzea, and devices of the coins 1 and BA;
Whether foreign coins shall l>e permitted te be cnrrent
or not; ifthe former, at what nta, and fbr what period!"
Another paragraph was in the following words:
" The foregoing suggeMiona respecting the aitea of
the several coins, are made on the aupposition that the
Leginlature may think Gt Ic regulate this matter ; "pa-
haps, however, it may be judged not nnadvisabte to lM*e
it to £iecutivB discretion.
And another yet, as follows :
" It may, nsTeithelssa, he advisable, in addition to the
precautiona here aDggBSled, to tepoae a diacretionaij
authori^ in the President, to continue the eiUTet>cy it
the Spanish doUai, at a value onreaponding with the
quantity of fine nlver contained in it, beyond the period
above mentioned for the cwsatinn of the cirenlalton a£
the foreign coins."
Mr. L. said he would make but one citation
more, and that wai from a Report of the first Se-
cretary of State, [Mr. Jefferson,] of the 14th of
April, 1790, on the letter of John H. Mitchell, re-
citing certain proposals for supplying the United
States with copper coinage. In that Report the
Secretary observed :
"Coinage is particDlarly an attiibnie of soveieignty ;
lo transfer ita ezerciaa into another conatry is to ai^i-
mit it to another aoveraign. In fine, the carrying on a
cranage in another oountry, as &r as the Secretary
knows, is without eismple, and general example is
weight anthori^."
From both these Reports, it was evident, he
said, that as the regulation of the coins wasamong
the specified powers of Coa|neE8, it was the opin-
ion of the two Secretaries that they could not be
regulated otherwise than by an act of Congress ;
but from the Treaty-making doctrines now advo-
cated, the Prebidght and Senate might authorize
the currency of foreign coins, or even a coinage in
a foreign country. For example, could they no^
in the Treaty with Spain, have agreed, that (he
Spanish dolUr should be current in the United
States 1 Certainly they could, if their Treaty
doctrines were well lannded; if the interpretation
of the Constitution now insisted on in the Honse
had depended solely on theory, and unsupported
by the multiplicity of precedents on their owtt
Jonraals. The charge of innovation that had
been so constanllv sounded by the opposers of the
resolution might nave created, perhaps, some real
apprehensions. But now he thought the world
must be convinced, that the principles by which
the resolution was defended, were clothed with
both LiCgislative and Executive sanction ; that so
far from being tenets but of yesterday, they had
by the Constitution, and matured
er its operations. To whom then,
been general^ b
and ripened undei
did the charges of innovation and tisurpation at-
tach 1 Surely to those who, in the exercise of
the Treaty-making power, were endeavoring and
aiming at the L^iaUtive power. Thoae were
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Trtaty with Great Britain.
|1Uab<
,1796.
the new-faagled docirines; Ihey we
of yesterdaf, and foistpd into the Con;
Upon the spur of the present occasion. From
some researches and ioquiries that he had made,
he was induced to think that the light or power
of making Treaties was of the nature of those
lights which had oblaiued the name of impre-
scriptible rights; that is, the cases in whicu it
was or luight be oecessarjr to treat, were so many
and various, that it was impossible to prescribe
certain rules aclecedeol to the case, and that could
only be done by the whbte people, or by their
Legislature. Mr. Marten, in his Law of Nations,
in speaking of the validity of Treaties, says :
" Anything that ha* been pronuMd by Iha <ii)cf or
hia agent beyond the ]i>uil« of the authority nith which
Iha Btau haa intruited him, is at moat ao more thtm a
dmide promin, which only obUges the petmm who
promJMa to ose hii endeavoiB to procure its ratification.
wilhiKit binding the State, which of caune may refose
•uch ratilJeatloD. Thm the itipdlationa of a moDan^,
dunfh he sboold be sbaolate, cannot benlid,ifit mili-
tatea agaiiut the fbnduneBtai lawa of the State, at leiM
tmlesa it be ratified by the nation."
At the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713, which was
made with the view of settling the succession to
the French and Spanish Crowns, and to prevent
their union in the same person^ it was considered
as an indispensable prerequisite that the letters
Stent of the Kings of France and Spain, also the
ukes of Berri and Orleans, renouncing and ab-
i'uring their sereral claims and pretensions, sbould
iBve the Legislative approbation of the Partiament
of Paris and the Cortes in Spain. In short, the
Treaty-makiog power was not vested (in so abso-
lute a degree as contended for on the part of the
Executive here) in the Kings of France under the
ancient Government, or the Rings of Spain and
England, countries which had Iwen continually
depicted as oppressed and vexed in a manner that
forced their mhabitants to seek refuge upon ~"
shores.
Mr. L. then said he would consider a little sl
of the arguments and objections that had been
offered on the other side of the question. The
gentleman from Rhode Island, in behalf of the
small Slates, had set up a claim to his construc-
tion of the Constitution, in order to preserve indi-
vidual State sovereignty. To him, Mr. L. said.
the argument, appeared to stand thus: that small
States most possess the means of dissolving lari
States, to prevent the latter from absorbing tf
former. That is, to secure the people in their
State OoTemments, you must destroy their rights
in the Qeneral Qovemmenl. It would be the
ease, he observed, upon that gentleman's inter-
[tretation of the Constitution, that a small propoi-
lion of the people of the United States might make
«U the laws. The small States, by their repre-
Mntation in the Senate, could dispose of the large
States by bargain or contmot. It was not a little
singular, indeed, that the small States, not content
with an equal suffrage in the Senate, should eUim
the right of wresting all power from the House of
Representatives, in which alone the large States
had any proportionate weight and influence. It
ould have been unnecessary. Mr. L. observed, to
ive noticed this argument, had it not appearei]
ilculated to excite local jealousies and Stale pre-
dicEs. Certainly the mhabitants of the small
Slates could not possibly have any reasonable fears
they reflected that not only they were repre-
I in the House in ptojMrtion to their num-
bersand population, but also in the Senate equally
'lb the larger States. If any appreheosioos 'n-ere
be entertained, it must be by the latter. But
the gentleman from Rhode Island, to conflno hii
doctrines, affirms, that at the adoption of the pre-
Consiiiuiioo, in the State of Massachusetts,
it was understood in the same sense j as to that
fact, Mr. L. said, he would not determine ; but
he could say, that the gentleman, so far from
finding any countenance for hb assertion, would
find the contrary in the debates of their Conven-
tion. In those debates, one member, Mr. King,
That the Trea^-making power would be found as
much restrained in thii counliy w in any ceuntiy in
the world."
And another member, Mr. Choate:
■■ That aa the regulation of commerce waa uadn- the
control of Congieaa, it could Dot be ragnlated by Trea^
without their consent and cottcvirenni."
He would now pass to an objection of the gen-
tleman from New Hampshire, [Mr. Smitb,] who
' " st sat down, vii: that the advocates of the
ion must be wrong, because they disagreed
r own interpretation. Possibly ,he said, every
ight not have given the same erpositio
s not always so easy Ii
e what we would,
__ what we would not have : there was, neverthe-
less, no diversity of sentiment; at any rate, they
were agreed in tine thing at least, that the con-
struction of that gentleman was wholly wrong.
Mr. L. then said he would advert, (or one mo-
ment, to the assertion of his colleague, [Mr. Seog-
wicK,1 "that confidence in Government ought to
be unlimited." This, he said, appeared to him to
induce another consequence, viz : that of passive
and absolute obedience. It was, in fact, the revival
ofthe long exploded doctrine of pasive obedience
and non-resistance ; and, although such tenets
might constitute a claim or pretension to the con-
fidence of some Qovernrocots, he hoped it was not
yet the case in this, and that such sentiments would
never be prevalent here ; for it was his opinioB
that there never either had been or would be a
Government perfectly pure and uncorrupl, with-
out a little watchfulness and even distrust, and
that societies of^ener discovered too little than loo
much. There was a natural effort in all societies
to confer power and wealth on a few, at the ex-
pense of the many. This tendency the most re-
Suired to be counteracted ; from this quartet
anger was first to be apprehended, and not from
another, as bad been contended. Popular branches
and assemblies never usurped, they never encroach-
ed on other departments, until they were chal-
lenged, and even forced to the conflict, by some
inordinate itterapta fbr power. Every department
should, then, exercise ^at caution' and modera-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mabch, 17960
TVeoly with Great Britain.
[H.opR.
tion not to excite and {RtiToke j^kLouaies and dis-
contents, that possible wonl-] wue in re '
He should make but a few lemal-ks ,,
was now considetablf later than the usual tine of
adjournment. The remarks were relative to the
late Treaty ; not indeed whether it was a very
bad or good Treaty, for that was not now the
^uestionltefore the Coramiitee, but that the Treaty
Itself Tecornised the principle he was contending
for. He tlien reed from the ISlh article these
worda: " that during the eontinosnce of this arti-
cle, the United States will prohibit and restiain
the carrjrinff molasses, sugar," 4*. Why, said
Mr. L^ is this laneuaze and phraseology used?
Upon the principle of the unlimited power of
" ■" ■ ■ ■ ■ J Uv ■
making Treaties, and that they repeal Uws, the
lanmiageand phraseology ought to ba^e been thus:
the Uaited Sutes do prohi" ' "
, -,-/,fM — --,
tialed the Treaty well knew that be posaewed
(oprohibitandTeElrain; or, it
md restrained. It was. he t
Iter wno ni
Bited States do
hereby prohibited an^ restrained. It was, he said,
unnecessary to reply, for the Minister
tialed the Treaty well knew that be pt
such authority. He knew that from the soaroe
he derived his appointment no stich power could
Bow. Mr. L. said that he hoped, therefore, that
the reM)lution would be agreed to by the Commit-
tee, and that it would pass in the House ; for, bb
they would be obliged to disc ues the Treaty to
which the papers mentioned in the resolution re-
lated, it was necessary they should be possessed of
all the information, and have the whole sobject
before them. And ho declared, that although
heretofore he had entertained sentimenti very
unfavoiable to thai iostrument, yet, notwithstancl-
ingi if '"y pa^rs or arguments could explain
eiibec the policy or oecooaity of aoceding to the
meastire; if it could even appear that Jthotigh
r the policy or oecoaaity of aoceding to the
are; if it could even appear that Jthotish
there had been sacrifices very important on tbf
part of the United States, yet that they wera
dered inevitable by the necessitien of our sitna-
lion; if it should be evident that the terms and
conditions on which we now stood with other na-
tions compelled us lo find a shelter in a compact
of this sort, he must give his vote for carrying it
into effect: but if, on the other hand, it should be
found that the Treaty was neither promotive of
onr interest! nor ixoposed by necessity, it never
should, with his consent, hare any operative effect
in thi* country, while his exertions oonld pre-
vent it.
MxmcB 17.— In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. LtviROSTON'B resolution.
Mr. RsBO said, he saw no necessinr for the pa-
pers referred to in the resolution. If the consti-
tutionality of the Treaty should be questioned, or
the propriety of making appropriations, these
questions, he conceived, must be determined by
companng the Treaty with the Constitution, and
br attending to those stipulations oontained in the
Treaty itself-
ll was not his intention to have, troubled the
Committee by speakiogon this occasion; but per-
ceiving that some gentlemen, in the course ofthe
debate, hnd gone further into the opposite eitremn
than he wms prepared at present to foUow them,
be fell as if he ought to axpreas his own seoti-
menls with regard to the Conititntional rights of
that House relative to the Treaty in quesUon.
The Treaty was undoubtedly negotiated, ratified,
and promulgated by Constitutional authority
The PaB8[OBNT, with the advice and consent <k
two-thirds of the Senate, was, in his opinion, un-
questionably that authority which the United
Slates had autbonzed to make Treaties. But
still it seemed taken for granted that some agency
of that House, in its Legislative capacity, would
be needed iu order to carry the aforesaid Treaty
into efiect. A question, therefore, arose, viz: Was
that House, io all such cases, bound and obliged
to put so implicit aod absolute a confidence in the
Executive or in Treaties as would render it en-
tirely unnecessary to have any opinion of their
own about them, or the [irobable caonsequeaees of
their operation? For his part, if he had never
seen the Treaty in contemplation, aod were per-
fectly ignorant of its cotileots, or, if he fully be-
lieved, as B citizen, thai it was unconstitutional,
or calculated to ruin, or very materially injure the
country, he should not think himself justifiable in
voting to appropriate money for the purpose of
carrying it into effect. It had been conceded by
genilemen thai il a Treaty were evidently uncon-
stitutiooal, it would not be wrtHig to witUiold ap-
propriations; and he conceived that a Treaty
might possibly be so injurious in its effects as to
justifysuch a measure. Supposing soeh aposal-
ble event should ever actually happen, did not the
right of refusing to legislate in support of the said
Treatv involve the right of previously txamin-
iog all Treaties which need the aid of the ha-
gislature, aod of judging for themselves whether
It would be proper or imraoper to make laws for
the purpose of carrying them into effect ?
In making Treaties the Executive would use
his own discretion, keeping wittuo ihe-limits pre-
scribed for him by the Constitution. In malting
laws the Legislature must use their own discre-
tion, always keeping within those limits and
bounds which the Constitution had fixed for
them. He said, the discretionary ri^ht here eon-
*~ided for was not the right of doing wron^ ; it
. _s.not the ri^ht of violating the Constitution :
it was not the right of snpporUng a Treaty which
ought to be debated, nor of defeatiog a Treaty
which ought to b« supported; but, simply the
right of judging for tnemselves, whether they
ought, by their own act and deed, in the cboioe-
ter of legislators, to appropriate by law such sums
of money as would be needed in order to support
an existing Treaty^, all things and circumstancea
relating thereto being suitably examined and pro-
perly considered. Perhaps it would be objected,
that the Constitution no where expressly gave the
legislators that right. He answered, the right
was not precluded, but implied, and, in some re-
spects, evidently one of the original and essential
rights of man; a law of nature, prior and supe-
rior to all other laws ; a law never to be trans*
gressed iu any station whatsoever. Individuals,
m many cases at least, had a right to exercise their
own discretion with respect to the propriety of
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. opR. I
Treaty mlK Great Britain.
[M4BCB,1796.
of tke LegislaeurF, he believed they had a right to
deliberate and coDsult, among other ihia^, the
ezpedieDe]r and dulf of makiag or of refusJDg to
makeapproprialionf, ereniD the cas«of aTreaty.
It appeared to him that, in legislaiing, the L^s-
Uture should haTc this right of judgias for them-
•elres with respect lo th» propriety of msking or
Mfusioff to make any law whaisoeTer. Id matt
cases their duty would perhaps apjiesr ptaio and
obvbus, particularly in the case of appropriating
mmiey wbe(e a law or Treaty actuaUy existed.
However, the obligation did not arise wholly from
the circumstance of an eiisting law, but partly
from the nature, reaionableness, and tendency of
the thing itself
A Treaty negotiated by Constitutional authori-
ty was, he contended, a solemn eompact between
two nations. !i was an important consideration ;
but he thought they miffht, with propriety, attend
to other coDsideratioDs forand against it, especial-
ly when their own aid was required, in order to
carry it fully into effect. This he conceived was
the right of the House, and no encroachment up-
on the prerogative of^ the other branches. An
appropriation was a specific sum, appropriated by
a rarticular law to a particiilar purpose.
The right of appropriating the public money
was not a natural right, but a right derived from
the ConstiluiioB i and the LcgisUiture was to ei-
ereise that right according to the honest dictates
of their own best discretion ; excepting those in-
stances in which they were expressly reniricted
by the Constitution itself, as in the CAses of com-
pensation for the services of the President of the
United States, and for the services of the Judges.
Congress might deliberate and act disetetionally
in stating at tirst their salaries.
With respect to the Judges : if after their sala-
ries had been stated they should be deemed insuf-
ficient, Congress has a discretionary right to in-
crease ihem ; but the Constitution said they
ritouM not be diminished during their continuance
in office. With respect to the President's salary.
Congress had no discretionary right (o make any
alteration ; for the Constitution said it should not
be iiiereaaed nor diminished during the period for
which he was elected. With regard to compen-
SBtions and appropriations in general, wherein
there was no restriction or limitations, the whole
affair seemed left to the direction of those whom
the ConstitntioD had authorized to traoaact such
business. He said, the case of an existing estah-
tishmenc or law might be a. very good reason why
each branch of the Legislature should deliberate
and decide with peculiar caution ; but, as the
Constitution no where expressly said that appro-
priations should be made in all such cases, and as
mankind had a natural right to alter their opinion
or differ from others, each branch of the Legisla-
ture had a Constitutional tight of judging for
themselves, and of makiog appropriations accord-
ingto (he dictates of their own honest judgment.
He said, it was acknowledged by all that (he
CoDstitution was (heir rule, but still some difficulty
retuaiued, for different persons understood and ex-
plained (be Const] tutioit, in some instances, very
differently. There was ofleu an unavoidable am-
biguity and obscurity in words made use of to ex-
press certain definite ideas. New and unexpected
cases vninld frequently occur. The best defini-
tions would soon need defining. There was no
other way, therefore, but for every one lo investi-
gate and understand the Constitution for himself,
and to follow (hat construction which appeared
to him, upon the most careful examination, to be
the true and proper meaning.
He said, with respect (o the Treaty in contem-
plation, there were many petitions on the table,
some in favor and others against its being carried
into effect. When the Treaty, therefore, came
under (he consideration of the House, gentlemen
would undoubtedly be able to judge for them-
selves with respect to its c'onstitutionaLity, and the
propriety of making appropriations, by comparing
It with the Coosiiiutioo, and by attending suitably
to those stipulations which it contained.
Mr. Thaot said, he felt a diSideDce in giving
his sentiments in that House, which was much
increased when he considered tbe ability with
which the questbn had already been discnssed,
and the length of time it had consumed ; but the
magnitude of the qnestion would justify him, in
his own opinion, for asking of theCommittee to in-
dulg« him with a small portion of their time and
This was (he first time, since the adoption of
the present Oovernmeni, that a discussion of the
important Constitutional question of the extent (J
the Treaty-making power could have taken place,
as it respected a Toreign nation ; and, of coursp.
would probably form a precedent for all future
inquiries of a similar nature.
The call for papers contained in this resolaiion
narily it would be agreed, on all hands, the Hon
of Representatives had no rieht to them. Ought
not then a call of this extraordinary kind to carry
on its face tbe special reasons which induced it?
He asserted (hat the object of (he resolution was
new, althotigh it had been said i[ was similar, in
point of principle, to that of calling on Heads of
Departments for papersand documents to assist the
House in Legislative business, which he coniended
was not a correct idea. The House certainly had
a righ( (o call for any papers or statements from
its officers, created under laws, which it had par-
ticipated in making. No former practice or deci-
sion of the House could give a lead b this case;
and were there no Treaty made with a foreign
nation, now before the House, no gentleman woifld
pretend there existed a right or propriety (o call
for the papers in question. He objected lo the
form of this resolution : it is a request for all
papers, such as may be secret in themsdves, and
may affect future negotiations; the only discre-
tion left to the PRseiDBNT is such papers as may
relate to any present negotiation. If a requisition
of this kind could be ever justifiable, it certainly
would be proper to accompaoy it with precise and
specific reasons, stating the teal objects.
A Treaty, said to have been made with Great
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mahcb, 1796.]
Treaty -wUh Great Britain.
BritaiD, bad beeu committed to a Committee of
the Whole House on the state of (be Udioq. If,
when that matter should be taken "P, all purtiea
should be perfectly satisfied with the Tieaty, and
DO laws should he necessary to carry it into effect,
and none to be repealed, would any person pre
tend we wanted these papers 7 If, when that pe-
riod should arrive, the House judged a declara-
tion of war or impeachment of the ne^oliaior
was ejpedient, he would not say, a call in sub-
stance like the present, but in form specifying its
exact object, migbt not be proper.
But, if tbe present call was proper, it could be
so odIjt on the ground that the House of Repre-
sentatives had a ri^ht, in their official capacity, to
examine a. Treaty in its passage, before it became
a Treaty with binding force.
To eiBiaine it as a constituent power, without
whose sanciion it can have no validity. This
right in the House of Representatives had been
claimed ; and, if this was a just definition of their
risht, and once became established, he agreed the
call contained in the resoluiion would be com-
[detely justifiable. It has been said, a publica-
tion of those papers was necessary to aJIay public
ferment. If so, specify the intention in the
call. But the opimoD of (he Fkesident might,
in this view of the subject, be safely trusted.
There could be neither necessity nor propriety in
the House going to the Pbesident with informa'
tion that a Treaty he had formed was unpopular,
and advbe him to take measures, by jiuoli^hiiiK
papers, to allay the fermentation ; or, with a kind
of compromise, such as, if you will let us see
iour i^wrsj we will carry your Treaty into ef-
ect. On such ground he thought him justifiable
in pronouncing the call impertiaent.
The CoDsiitutional rights of tbe House of Be-
preseoiBtives to interfere with Treaties, might
properly be considered in two points of view :
1. Had they a right to assist in the formation
of Treaties in such a manner as (hat a Treaty
would be incomplete without their sanction offi-
cially given '7 And,
2. Had they a right Id refuse appropriations of
moneys, (if necessary to carry into effect some
provisions in a Treaty,) and in that way defeat
He acknowledged, if the first position could be
supported, (he right to call for ilie papers would
be conclusive ; but, he contended, they could
be wanted on the latter ground.
s examined, it n
uld be
found the Treaty-making power was given to thi
Prebidgnt ; and no inlerlerence.or right given to
any other men or body of men, out to two-thirds
of the Senate, and that by way of consent or ad-
vice. Could It be pretended itiere was a sbadon
of authority civen to tbe Houm of ReprMenta-
tives?
In the Constitution it is said, " all Legialativf
powers herein granted shall be vested in a Con-
gress," &c. Would it be pretended, had the Con-
stitution gone no further, that tbe then thirteen
independent sovereigti States, hy that part of it,
had parteJ with the Treaty-making power 7 No !
ley reserved a great share of Legislative power
I themselves, and delegated it to Congress only
I certain cases, best cakulated, in their opinions,
I advance (heir own happiness ; and unquestion-
ably reserved every right, power, and sovereignly,
which they did not expressly give away by the
Constitution itself. Tbe powers of legblation are
(be powers of making statutes in all cases respect-
ing men and things within the jurisdiction of the
Legislature; but it could by no means in -its na-
'le comprehend the Treaty-making poweij which
the power of contracting or making bargains in
e name of a nation, as a moial person, with
lother nation or moral person, for their mutual
benefit, and to be binding and operative on them,
aspartieii to the contract or bargain. And although
this had binding force on the nation, when once
id completed, yet it was not a Legisla-
But the Constitution went further; it
had actually designated the Fbesidgnt, with the
advice of the Senate, to be a Plenipotentiary for
the formation of Treaties. Foltei, page 179, speak-
' ig of the various customs of nations, in the.de-
3si(e of (his power, says :
" AU (wndndan of Btate* (rneuung the EisentiTe*)
tve oat the powen, oFtbsm*elvea, of making public
Trsktiea : some an idiliged to take the advioe of ■ 8e-
powei of coDtiacting, with Talidity, in the name of a
State."
He supposed, by " fundamental laws," Vattd
must mean tbe Consiituiiun of a State ; if so, it
will not follow that the supreme Legisjative or
Executive power of a State, as such, Mve neces-
sarily the power of making Treaties ; it might be,
and in most countries was, an object of precise
delegation, and probably always, or certainly more
commonly, given to the Executive. This Con-
stitution had precisely given it to the Executive,
subjoioing the advice and consent of the Senate;
and in this particular, and in no other, had (he
individual sovereignties delegated all their power
without limitation. It was necessary and proper
(his power should be lodged somewhere, and
equally necessary i( should be en(ire and unlimit-
ed, to meet every exigency that the welfare of the
nation might require. It had been said, that gen-
eral expressions of power would be limited by
specific: this was a general truth, but he denied
the application which had been aitempteil. It was
said, the Treaty-making power is a general power;
the Congress has a specino power to regulate com-
merce, &.C. Of course, tbe specific power to regu-
late commerce will check the operation of a Treaty
of a commercial nature. He said this part of the
subject had been so ably and conclusively man-
aged by agentleman from New Hampshire, yes-
terday, [Mr. Smith,] (hat he would not exhaust
the patience of the Committee by going over the
same ground. He would however observe, (hat
by the common rule of construction, all the pow-
ers given to the Phesident which could, and in
their nature would, check or operate on legislation,
must be considered as a specific jwrtion of jwwei
carved out of (he general power given in the ionner
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OFR.J
Treaty vith Oreal Britain.
[Ma.
1, 1796.
San of the insinimeni. The general powers of
igislation first given to Congress, and in the next
place specific powers given to the Pbesident,
could not fail to lead the mind "directly to such a
ConslruclioQ. " All Legislative powers Ac., are
Tested in a Congress," but the Phbsident has a
qualified and specific check. Power to regulate
corarnerce with foreign nations is vested in Con-
gress, yet the sjjecific power of contracting, bar-
gaining, or tnakiiiK a Treaty, is, so far forth as it
may touch Legislative points, a specific check
npon it. Yet he acknowledged this was not his
chief reliance. The nature of the case wa* such,
that whatever internal regulations, or those relat-
ing to external and foreign commerciat subjects,
wnich may have become objects of Legislative
attention, oppose or come in competition with a
contract oi bargain about the iiame things, must
give way. it does not exclude legislation from the
object of foreign commerce, but establishes certain
points within which it shall operate, and which it
cannot violate.. The thirteen sovereignties pos-
sessing all the ^wer, gave to Congress a certain
portion of Legislative authority ; but they cer-
tainly could give to the Exeeniive, or tmj other
body, the power to make Treaties. This he con-
tenaed they had done, by the words of the Con-
htitoiion, in an inrlimi ted manner.
If we were to travel out of the Consiitntion to
support any opinion, he urged the old Confedera-
tion in support of his construction. In that Con-
stitution, almost all the commercial power was
retained by the States. An explicit article was
inserted, that all powers not eipressly given, were
by the individual States retained. The power to
make Treaties was there directly given to Con-
ercss, with a proviso, which would showplainly
tnat the authority to iaake Commercial Treaties
was meant to be given.
The wordsof the ninth article are : " The United
States, in Congress assembled, shall have the sole
and exclusive right and power of determining on
war," ftc. — " entering into Treaties and alliances,
provided that no Treaty of Commerce shall be
made," &e. — adding a restriction which acknow-
ledges the general power to extend to Commer-
ciaf Treaties. A similar construction to the one
now contended for would have left the co-opera-
tive power with the State L^islatures. This, some
of the Legislatures supposed they did possess, if
we were to judge from their public conduct. But
the sound and correct opinion, he thought, was
clearly as he had stated. To enforce this idea, fae
Sioted Mr. Jefferson's correspondence with Mr.
ammond, pages 48, 49, and 50; from which, he
said, it appeared that the opinions of the best
informed men in almost every State concurred in
the construction of Treaties being supreme in their
onetalions, and paramount to the taws of nuy or
all the States. He then quoted the proceedings
and resolutions of Congress on the same subject —
two resolutions passedMarch 21, 1787 ; a circular
letter sent to the Executives of each State, dated
April 13. 1787; and a resolution passed October
13, 1787, respecting a law passed in Virginia, in
' D of the second article of the Treaty
with France. He said, the following idea was
universally to be found m all these proceedings in
substance, and more than once in words, viz:
" When a Treaty is constitutionally made, ratified,
and published by us, (Congress,) it immediately
becomes binding on the whole nation, and super-
added tothelawsof the land, without the interven-
tion of State Legislatures." He supposed oolhing
could be more natural than for the framers of the
Constitution which is now iii operation to give at
least as much force to Treaties as was, or ought to
have been, given under the old Confederation ; for
which reasons they gave the Treaty-making power
most explicitly to tne Phesidbnt, with this ouly
check of advice and consent of twO-thirds of the
Senate : and added in the sixth article, that when
Treaties were made under this authority, they
should be the supreme law of the land.
The idea suggested by a gentleman from Rhode
Island, [Mr. Bochne,] that this poWer of making
Treaties was, by the frnmers of the Constitution,
meant to be placed out of the House of Reprcsent-
t of the jealousy of
lubtedly lusl. Thirt
States, was undoubtedly just,
reigniies were about to aeposile the most import-
ant of their concerns in bands which, in their
opinions, would first promote their happiness. The
sovereignties were equal, as each State was com-
pletely sovereign and independent, and the quan-
tum of sovereignly brought into common stock
was, not with Stan dmg any Territorial difierence
or inequahty of numbers, equal; therefore, as the
Treaty-making; power was c(Tnsidered an act of
sovereignty, the Slates were all to participate
equally in it, by force of their equal representation
in the Senate. He said, personally he could have
no such Jealousy, as the State of Connecticut,
which he had the honor with others to represent,
was singularly situated — holding just the same
Sro^rtion in the House of Representatives as she
id in the Senate— one-fifteenth part of the whole.
If any proof could be necessary, he thought the
almost unanimous understanding of the members
of the different Conveulions in the States, who
were called to discuss the Constitution for adop-
tion, was in bvor of the construction be had given;
that a Treaty, when made by the Pbehidekt, with
theadviceandconsentoftwo-tbirdsof the Senate —
ratified and promulged in the usual manner — was
complete, without any assistance or co-operation
of the House of Representatives
To this point, he quoted the Debates of the Vir-
ginia Convention, volume 3. page 89. A gentle-
man, active and eminent in tnat body, says, speak-
ing of that part of the Constitution which defines
the power of making Treaties —
"TheF
f, became itzge pt^ulai a.
, traniact nich boiinesa, from dw
impoinbili^ of their acting with luffieiaBt mctc^, it-
ipstch, and decimon, which can only be found in amiD
bodies ; and because such natneroui bodiea ve ever
■abject to Actiana and puty smmauliea. It would It
repugnant to Republican princtplna to vest this power
in the President ^one ; it u therefore given to m Pr*-
■identand Senate (who lepreeent the Btateain Otisindi-
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF C0NGHKS8.
Treaty with Gnat Britain.
He acknowledged, that, from such debates, the
real slate of men's minds or opinions may not
always be collected with accuracy ; but he was
induced to quote the above in this part of his argu-
meni to show that whatever might have been
tbought by the meiabers of that Conveotion to^je
checks on the operation of Tcealies, by Tirtue of the
power of withholding approprialious, yet no one
look such eitensive ground as is now contended for
by some of the suiiporters of the resolutiau under
consideration. The principal objection to the
Trealy-makinff power m that Convention seemed
to be nouoded on nfear that Territory might be
ceded by the Prebident and Senate without the
consent of the whole Legislature. Consonant to
this idea is the amendmeni agreed to by the Con-
vention : For in that they connect the House of
Representatives with the Pbesident aad Senate,
in forming all Treaties which are to cede Terri-
tory. But in another sentence of Ihe same amend-
ment, when they mention Commercial Treaties,
they only wish to add, that twu-thirds of all the
Senate shall consent,^ and not two-thirds only of
those present. It had been said, that the Consti-
tution was similar to that of Great Britain in the
part respecting Treaties. This, he contended, was
an incorrect statement : in his opinion they were
vary difierent. The Constitution of Great Britain
was formed almost entirety of usages. It l^ad been,
for a great lencih of time, the usage for the King
to lay before Parliament, for their approbation,
Treaties — especially those of a commercial nature.
11' this was a usage, all chat could be said of it was,
that it was a part of their Constitution. He sup-
posed Ibis rignt had been given by the Crown, at
some lirne, to obtain a grant of money ; but he
could not recollect that the Parliament, with all
their pretensions to a right of rejecting Treaties,
had ever exercised it. They generally made a
pretext of dislike to a Treaty to change the Ad-
ministration. This had been often done: it was
on tfte Treaty of Peace of 1783. The Treaty of
Utrecht, which was concluded fn 1713, had been
cited as an instance of rejection by the British
Parliament. It was a fact, in that mstaace, that
nothing was rejected but a conditional Tieaty.
Id forming the Treaty, there were many distinct
Crts: one part of it was a Commercisi Treaty
tween Gogland and France, separately signed,
and conditional — that is, " within the space oF tv
months after a. law shall pass in Great Britai ,
whereby it shall be sufficiently provided, &c., the
general tarifTmade in France, dec., shall take place
there again, dtc." The law did not pass in Great
Britain, and of course the Commercial Treaty
failed. Mr. T. said he had searched all the Trea-
ties made by Great Britain since the Treaty of
Munster, which, if his memory was accurate,
concluded in 1648^ and could not find an inM
of the Parliament's refusinglheir assent to a Treaty
made unconditionally ; and he really believed, if
they practised fVtIly on the ti^bt tbey claimed, it
would very aoon destroy their Qove'rnment. It
had been taid, Blacktttme in his QonuneDtdKes
4th Coii.-r91
h^d de&Bcd the powers of the King of Great Britain
to be unlimited in the making of Treaties. ' He
observed, that, let Blackstone or any other Crown
lawyer sav what he would in favor of prerogative,
'* was well known the usage had been to submit
Parliament the consideration of Treaties, and
that usage was a j»n of their Constitution ; and
he rejoiced, that in that particular Jhe Constitu- -
tion of his country was different. Gentlemen had
said. Shall this House not have as much power
respecting Treaties as the House of Commons in
Great Britain ? This question was both improper
in itself, and calculated to mislead. Were we in , i
Convention, and forming a Constitution, it might |
have weight ; but in a cool discussion of a Con- |
stituiion already formed and adopted, and the
question is, What powers are given 1 itcuuldnot
be proper. And it ought to be remembered that
Parliament, and not the Commons aJooe, had ibis
right in Great Britain. In'definine the relative
powers given by Ihe Constitution, there was dan-
ger of trie popular branch making encroachments
OD the other branches, under pretence of lavoring
the liberties of the people. This pretence, how-
ever grateful it might sound in debate, he thought
was but a pretence. It was the duty of the House '
to make a stand against all encroachments on their *
own rights, if any were attempted, hut it must
equally be their duty ^o eiercise great caution not
to encroach on others. He said, he considered
the responsibility which was so very neces.'mry on
those in the exercise of the Treaty-makinff power •
could not exist if it wa^ extended to the House of
RepresenUtives.
The remarks of the gentleman from Virginia.
[Mr. Giles,] that be, and those who advocstea
the same opinions, by constant association and
thinking on one side only, bad become, like pulpit
reasoners, inattentive to the weight and force of
what nsight be said in opposition, might be just in
application to himself; for he acknowledged he
bad been accustomed to bear but one opiaion on
this subject ; and from the first appearance of the
Constitution to this time, it hau been a imiform
opinion with him, and those with whom be gen-
erally associated; and he confessed he could not
retort the observation on the gentleman, for the
opinion advanced by him was a new one,^aud
Erobably the gentleman bad not been in babita of
earing it often declared or advocated. He thought
it singular that, in a discussion of this nature, ■
there should be a resort to the British Constitu-
tiou, and still more so, that a very exceptionable
part of it should be claimed. Could anv man se-
riously wish thaiTreatieSjgeoerally maae in some
critical period of national affairs, after beine ti-
tled with a view to existing circumstances, should
in a length oftime afterwards be subject 10 the
consideration of any other branch of the Govern-
ment who could not know many of the motives
for a particular cast it may have 1 Those who
thought with him on. this subject, he said, had
been accused of a design to give up the exercise
of rights properly vested in them by the Constitu-
tion to tne PaEaiDEHT and Senate, and this was
called sacrificii^ the rights of the people. He
;dbvG00gle
619
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
l-opR.]
Treaty with Great Britain.
[March, 1796.
thowht it not ibe first time he had heard a ntrug-
gte (or power, dignified bf the name of a virtuous
attempt to protect the liberties of niaakind. Could
it be supposed that he or any other man could
vrish to Tcsi^ rights given by the Constitution 7
Power, it wassaid, -was intoxicating ; but it must
be a sin^lar operation of the buman mind, under
the fascinating infiuence of power, to seek every
opportunity to give it up, and become a slave. He
wished ^ntlemen to apply their own maxim of
the intoxication of power to the present struggle,
and discern on which side its influence will most
■ probably carry them. He asked why a ^rallel
was drawn between Ibis House and the British
House of Commons t
In that country, the immediate representatives
of the people had been for a long time obtaining
Crivileses from an hereditary Executive and no-
tes, which by then^ had been usurped. In this
country, the Executive and Senate were the re-
presentatives of the peooie, possessing [lowers ex-
actly marked out and aefined by a written Con-
stitution; and the attempt to give an alarm against
the despotism of the President and Senate, by
comparing; them with King and Lords, could not,
on any pnnciple, be proper, delicate, or justifiable.
He had olten heard before he came into the
Qovemmenl and since, that we had a Constitution,
^TtDg portions of power, exactly defined, and that
tf we thought it might even become beneficial to
tbe people, to take a constructive latitude, in the
exercise of power, yet to step ofi" of the written and
defined limits given Us would be improper in the
extreme : this doctf ine, although used on occasions,
which in his opinion were inapplicable, was
weighty and important. He asked gentlemen to
refiecl m what wa)[ this power, now contended
for, was to be obtained? Was it found in the
Constitution, or by a construction, which, if not
directly in violation of terms, was nearly so 7
He said, that a writer, under ihe sivnature of
Pu&jiu*, in A seriesof papers called the ^ederoltsf,
had been quoted as favoring this doctrine of asso-
ciating the Hoilse of Repreientatives in the for-
mation of Treaties. He said it was an unfound-
ed assertion: what that author had said upon the
subject was coDlained in two chapters ; the first
be|UDs with page 301, and the other in page 272,
both of the 2d vol! He requested gentlemen to
read those two chapters, and be was much mista-
ken if all would not acknowledge that tbe opin-
ions of the PedenUigt weie not. to associate the
House of Representatives with the President in
the making of Treaties. What was said in page
133 of the same volume he would notice in the
Other branch of the argument.
But gentlemen had said, if this extensive right
must be abandoned, yet a Constitutional check
temaina with the House of Representatives^ to de-
feat all Treaiies.which may require appropriations
of monef to carry them into efi'ect. If this was
called a right of co-operation in making Treaties,
he did not understand it ; to say, a payment of a
debt was part of a contract, and a refusal to pay
made void the contract was to him perfectly un-
intelligible. He considered a Treaty a bargain
implete, when made by the Vbesv
DBNT and Senate ; and if money was necessary to
carry it into effect, it diff not invalidate the con-
tract to refuse ati appropriation ; it was only say-
ing the nation had made a contract, and then re-
fused to fulfil. He requested a few minutes in-
dulgence on the subject of appropriation, which
v^as the second and last view he had proposed to
take of the subject.
Gentlemen had exclaimed, with some warmth.
" Are we to be machines perfectly at command of
the Phebidbnt and Senate; and are appropria-
tions to be made without exercising any discre-
tion?"
He considered this Moufe, in all Legislative
acts, to possess a full and unlimited discretion,
with some lew exceptions, which he would point
out. A bill comes under the consideration of this
House to establish trading-houses with the Indian
tribes. Full and perfect discretion to accept or
refuse is certainly vested in this House. Suppose
they, in concurrence with the other branches, pasa
the bill, and employan agent, with a promise con-
tained in the same bill to pay him one thousand
dollars for certain services, and this agent renders
the services and produces his account, it is well
known he cannot be paid without an appropria-
tion by law. Can any man say, that, in consider-
ing tbe bill of appropriation^a complete discre-
tion is left to pass or not 7 Would it be called a
correct idea to assert that a man w^s possessed of
full and complete discretion to embrace truth or
false hoodi, after both were distinctly held up to
his view 7 Would not tbe truth force his accept-
ance 1 Suppose there was a clause in the Con-
stimiion subjecting the United States to a suit,
and suppose a suit instituted and judgment ren-
dered against them, would this House say, before
we appropriate moneys to pay this judginent, we
will look into the merits ot^the case, and if the de-
cision is not, in our opioion, grounded on proper
testimony, we will refuse an appropriation 7 Or
would they sayj the sum of the judgment hacnow
become an oblifption on us, declared to be such
by the constituted authority, and we are bound in
good conscience and by the rules of morality' to
appropriate 7 . Tbe salaries to the Prebident and
Judges had been acknowledged to be situated by
the Con^ititution itself in such a manner that we
are bound to appropriate. He considered all Cod-
stitutiooal obligations, and those arising from laws
and Treaties constitntlonally made, on the same
footing. He said there was now a Treaty con-
eluded with Ihe Dey of Algiers contracting to pay
him an annuity of 12,000 seqnins. Suppose, ten
years hence, the House of Representatives should
not think proper to appropriate this suntj war
would be the consequence, and in this exercise t^
diacrelion, as it was called, one branch of the Go-
vernment would have it completely in its power
to declare war. The difficulty would not rest
here; for by taking this ground the Senate will
have the same power of refusing appropriations,
and they exclusively make war ; wber^ds the
Crastiiution has given that power to Congress,
wifh a view Aat each House shgnld bo a check
idbyGoOgfe
mSTORY OP CONGRESS.
633
7Vea(y v&h Great Brilain.
[H. orR.
loiDStiluie a bill of the kind; if [he Senate agree,
a Treaty can uodoubtedlf tbtis be anDulled ; bat
if the Senate negative the bill, the dut;^ of this
HouK would becODH very stroDg, if not irresisti-
ble, to appropriate.
Mr. T.said he would not detain tlie Committee
aoy longer than to hint ■( what was said of a seti-
tence in page 133 of the FedtroHvt, which is—
"And tlthoufth the House □!' Repre«en tali res is
not immediately to participate in foreign segotia-
tioQs and arrangementd, yet, from the necessary
connezion between the several branches of public
afikirs, those parlicalaT branches will frequently
de&erve attention in the ordinary course of leeis-
latiouj and will sometimes demand particular Le-
gislative sanction and co-opemtion.'' He conceiv-
ed that laws might became necessary in the vari-
ous exigencies of a Grovemmenl in consequence
of Treaties being made that mi^ht be called sanc-
tioning them, and yet not so immediately con-
nected with them BS to preclude a full or nearly
a full and complete discretion whether to pass
tbem or not; but he could not agree that in the
act of appropriation which might be the only de-
sideratum in a Treaty, that a-full and complett
discretion to appropriate, or not, was left to any
one or all branolies of the (Joremmenl. He ac-
ktiowledged if a Treaty was unconstitutional, it
was not th<*ii a contract of binding force, and of
eonrse contamcd no obligation ot any kind what-
ever; ifa Treaty was so terrible in itself, and
manifest consequences tuinous to the nation
' no argament could be drawn from lucfa a state-
ment to establish general rules. The moral law
had said, we shall not kill, and yet a man may b«
e laced in such a situation, a» that he not only may
at it becomes his duty to kill ; cnuld.it be- said a
Kneral right to kill is proved by this concession?
It could gentlemen seriously tay, we now want-
ed these papers, mentioned in the resolution, to
assist UB in determining upoik the question of ap-
Sropriation'? He thought not. He supposed the
rst extensive and unlimited ri^bt of interferins
in the making of a Commercial Treaty could
alone instify the call, and he believed that ground
must be given up. He said bis colleagues [Messrs.
Smitb and OmawoLD] had asserted no other doc-
triMfl than such as he now advocated, and yet
they had been accused of saying that this House
had DO will of their own, bat must in all cases im-
plicitly obey the pHEsinGNT and Senate. The
construction he had given to the Constitution he
believed to be jnst, and trusted he could be undei
no necessity of declaring [he purity of his inten-
tions, as he did not doubt bat every member of the
House was gnided in the investigation by the pur-
Mr. 3. SniTrsaid, that at the present sta
the discussion, li[[le was left bu[ gleanings, and
to bear testimony against a doctrine that appear-
ed lo him big with i;on*equences fatal to the true
ioMrests of the coanity. He would not fursne
be Eophistif of the gentleman laU up [Mr. Tii<
] throDgh all its windings and turnings ; he
would only observe that the ^ntleman had read
""•I, and quoted much to prove that Treaties
the supreme law — a doctrine that was ad-
mitted by all, that is, when under the authorit)>of
the United Slates. He also had taken much pains
nvince that a contract beiug by authority of
Congress for 1,000 dollars, money ought and would
be aporopriated to pay the contractor. Does any
one deny this to be sound doctrine 1 Yet he
thought he had seen conduct which roighl be con-
strued a^inst it.
He said the resolution requested certain papers
be laid before the House. What had been the
custom of the House heretofore 7 Invariably to
ask for all and every paper that might lta4 to in-
formation. He well recollected that, in 1793, a
great ferment had arisen in the public mind in
consequence of the Proclamation of Neunality,
(whicD had always appeared to him to b( a wise
measure,) that on the meeting of Congress a great
number of useful papers relative to our situation
with respect to foreign nations were submitted,
some of taem of a most confidential nature, relat-
ioft to Treaties then depending, particularly that
with Spain. The PRBSiDEti-r was not afraid to
place his con6deuce in that House, and be was
right ; the public mind was restored to quiet, and
the people of Kentucky (then restless) were satis-
fied that Ihe Executive were doing every ihingin
their power lo obtain the free navigation of the
Mississippi. The Pbebiobnt went farther ; he
sent a special agent tp Kentucky to comtQ^icate
to that Gtoverament the line'of conduct then pur-
suing for their welfare. Had the public mind
been less disturbed on the late Treaty than in
1793? He thought not) and that every paper
which would tend to satisfy that the Treaty was
expedient, or to give information on a subject that
must be discussed before that' House, might with
propriety be asked for.
A gentleman from Vermont [Mr. Bccxl re-
peated by another from South Carolina [Mr.
Smitb] said, to vote for this resolution would b9
ti'eason against ih.e laws and Constitution. Why
this harsh language? Did it lead to a discorery
of truth ? wEere did these geatlemea find IM
definition of treason 1 Not in the CoMCiRilfea,
for there it was properly defined.
A gentleman from South Caroline [Mr. Smith}
had Mid, that none nf the vtlrious town nftetincs,
relative to the Treaty, had asked for papers; tne
various Legislatures who had judgetl of the
Treaty, had they requested papers ? Did the gen-
tleman mean this as good reason why that House
should not ask for them T If he did, it was cer-
tainly argument not worthy of refutation. An*
other gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. Har-
per] had said, the House m^ht instiiule an io-
qairy into the.conduct of the Envoy; and he ehal'
lenged the opposers of the Treaty on that grouad,
it may investigate the Treaty itsjlf. Mr. S.
would ask, whether the papers were not necessary
to such inquiry and to such investigattcB? The
same genlleman said that if these papers were
necessary, he would demand them as a tigbl, not
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HISTORY or CONGRESS.
'H-opR.]
TYeaty mth Orutt Britain.
mik for them in the milk-and-waler sivle pro-
nosed. Here the genileman felt bold. But this
nu not been the custom. It had been usual, and
he hoped always would be, to approach the Chief
Magistrate of the Union with proper respect and
decorum. To ask for the papen (he added) w«s
unconstitutional, because unnecessary; he mi^t
as well have endeavored to cODTince by saying,
it is so, because it is so. A ifentlenwn from Coo-
neclicut [Mr. Gkiswolo] had opposed the pass-
ing of the resolution in a masterly maoner. He
had nerer, at any time, listened to any man in
tha( House with greater pleasure than to him;
but, upon re-examining what he heard, he tbund
the merits of the orator lay in the ingeDuity, not
in the strength of his reasoning.
From the papers. Mr. S. said, gentlemen had
taken a ground that appeared alarming, viz :
That the PaEBiDBNT and two-thirds of the Sen-
ate m«y. by the aid of a Treaty, do anything, and
eTeryffaing, not morally impossible, (provided
they do not iafringe on the Constitution,) and that
the immediate RepreMntativei, forming this
House, have only to be informed thereof, and to
obey.
Let us pause for a moment, and ask, Was thi
possible? Could this be the fair coustruction c.
our so much boasted Constitution 1 If it should
be, he would not revret the services rmdered hi
country during ibe late glorious Revolution, no_
the lurt he had taken to promote the adoption of
the Constitution ; nor would he, by ioBammatorv
spe^hes within, nor bis actions without doors,
do anything that should tend to destroy the har-
mony thea subsistiuK, or to disunite a people
whom nature and relative wants seemed to have
connected together; but be would endeavor, in a
Constiiutional manner, to obtain amendments to
the Coastituti on, which would prevent the evil in
future. But is there occaiiioo for ameodments to
the Treaty-making power 1 He thought not.
There were checks and balances sufficient in the
Constitution to prevent the evils that might arise
-out of it. He said, he could offer nothing new,
but would pursue the train of reasoning begun by
a seatlemao from Virginia [Mr. MidibonIj
• In the eighth section of the fir$t article of the
duMiittition, Congress hare power to lay duties,
Slc.. &,c,, but at] duties shall be uniform through-
ont the United States:
Can-ieguiate trade with foreign nations:
Can establish an uniform rule of naturatiza-
e bound to make them uniform; and
t prevenCed from giving a
Congrcs
another. But the Treaty-making power is nobno
confined; it may relieve one of our ports from
this uniformity of duties, or one of the Slates
from the lunformity of naturalization : that is, it
may reticfe goods imported in British bottoms
into New York, from the one-tenth aztra duly,
and let it remain on all the other polls of the
aptinat the use 01 power by its probable abuses.
He thought it advisaUe to guard against «buses :
but has this abuse not alrestdy taken placel He
thought it had. Not with respect to a port of the
consequence of New York; that would have
been loo palpable ; but on the Lakes, by the third
article of the Treaty, goods imported to the ter-
riiory in that quarter, in British bottoms, arc sub-
jected to no higher duty than goods impocted in
American vessels to the Atlantic ports. Here
appeared a departure from tha,t uniformity r*-
ouire^by the Uoustitution ; here appeared a pre-
ference given to the ports of one Slate over those'
of another; aiKJ yet gentlemen contend, that the
House have no right to inquire inio the business.
Indeed, so delicate was one gentleman [Mr. Buck]
on the subject, that he opposed committing the
Al^erine Treaty, lest it should esublish a claim
to investigation ! It was true, the trade on the
Lakes was small, but it would increase. Thus,
although Congress were very wisely restricted,
when laying duties, to make them uniform, yet
the President and Senate would be capable, by
(be assistance of a foreign Power, to destroy that
uniformity.
Again : he said, the Treaty^naking power, ts
contended for, may prevent the eipoit oi rice, lo-
bapco, fish, flour, or any other article, and that
House must not interfere, must not inquire. But
this would be the abuse of power. True ; but it
will be found, by the twelfth article, that the
Envoy agreed that laws should pass to prevani
the export of all West India mxidi. Nay. even
of cotKm, one of the obieels of our growth. It
was true, the Senate did not consent to this : but
if they had, and the Pbebident had ratified it,
that House, it was contended, must have passed
the laws. It would have had no option.
Again :,Mt. S. said. Congress passed a law (in
his opinion a wise law) granting a bounty on the
fishery, as a nursery for seamen, and another for
promoting navigation by restrictions on forei^
peal those laws. Would (hat House have no
right to inquire the reasons why 1 Gleotlemen
say no ; but that the Senate would be too wise to
consent to such a Treaty. And yet it will be
found, the law giving advantages to American
vessels over foreign, and laying an extra duty on
tannage, will be virtually repealed by that part of
the Treaty which gives a right to the British to
conntervaiX and preclude the United Slates from
legislating further on (hat subject. But the
Treaty has not touched (he fishery bill, if it had,
submission ou^ht (il is contended) (o have fol-
lowed from tEa[ House, The subject may thus
be followed under the Treaty-making power, un-
lit every power granted by the people to Con-
gress would be swallowed up, and Itial House
reduced to a registering rrffice.
He asked what could stop the Treaty power
thus construed; he trustedthat House i '"
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mabcb, 1796.]
Treaty wtf A Great Britain.
[H-oi-R.
on earth, because « jtocfrioe established whilst he
was at the helm of the nation, would carrjr so
nucb weighr with il, that it would probably
oerer be ania disputed.
But,raJdbe,are tboM papersseetetl No,they
are known to thirty Senators, their Secretary and
his clerks, to all the officers of Ch)vemment, and
to those of the members of this Houk who choose
to read them. Then, say geDllemen, where is
the necessity for calling for them 1 He answered,
becaose it was more prijper and more reapectful
to themseWes that they might form a document
which the members might quote in support of
their arguments, when the Treaty came under
discussion ; otherwise they mizht be called to
order, or their quoiatidn deniea. For instance,
sDppose he should assert that the Enroy, had no
power to effect a commercial Treaty ; that he
was to try what terms relalive to commerce might
be obtained, but positively prohibited from sign-
ing anything until it should first be reviewed by
the PRBSinBitT. Suppose he went further, and
should say, that the signature of the Envoy com-
mitted this country to a situation so delicate, as
in some measure compelled the Senate to consent,
and the Pbesiubnt to ratify; What would be
the consequence? Why, some member might
deny it, and the one assertion would stand a^inst
the other.
A jgentleman from Massaehnsects [Mr. Snoo-
wicKTbid applied his arc^ments to three points:
1st. That the doctrine oAhal House having any
check or control over Treaties entered into by
the PaEBinewT and Senate, was new, never be-
fore heard of, end never mentioned in the differ-
eat CoDrentioDs which adopted the Constitution.
2d. That the Senate was composed of men, the
most virtuous and enlightened; men. who had
always been forward in the hour of the greatest
danger; chosen by the elect of the people; by
the Legislatures of the different Statesi ; not bv
an ignorant herd who might becajoled, flatlerea,
and deceived ; not even by the enlightened citi-
zens of America. 3d. That the opposition arose
not from the provisions in the Treaty^ bnt be-
cause it was made with the British. From th
first jMiiut he had been completely driven by
gentieman from Virginia [Mr. Brent] who bad
proved that the doctrine was not novel, but as *'■'
as Ihe Constitution, and generally admitted
the Conventions.
On the second noinl, no person would deny the
qualities ot the Senate ; but without any
c
disparagement to the Senators from MassachU'
Mtts, be should be at no loss to find two gentle-
men from the same State of equal abilities and of
patriotism as welt tried^ and be presumed the
Gntleman would not disagree with him, when
was informed that he would probkbly fix his
eye on him as one. The tame gentleman said,
Who are we thatwe should attempt to judge over
the heads of those wise men— we, who are col-
lected from the remote corners of the Union 1
We, raid Mr. S., are the immediate delegates of
the peoj>le, collected from the different district* of
the Union, lo aiA oaA aaaisi tha wise men abova
stairs in making wholesome laws, and to retjin
those privileges giveQ to the House by the Con-
stitution, which he trusted they would hand to
their successors inviolate. He then took a viefi'
of the members who came from the remote parts
of the Union, and declared them to be nen of
sound judgment and real abilities.
The third point was a very serious charge in-
deed, DO less than that the opposition which had
been made, was not to the instrument, but be-
CBu.'ie'it was made with Great Britain; and the
gentleman asks, why a similar opposition hod
never been made to the Treaty with France?
Why this language f Can such reflections assist
in the discovery of truth? Was the gentleman
aware how this might be retorted ? Did he re-
flect that some gentleman of as little temper a«
himself might have said, that such a Treatv
would not have been signed bv the Envoy with
any other nation, nor eonsentea to by the 'Senate.
Nay, he might, if very irritable, have said, that if
it had not been British, it would not hare been
supported on the floor of that House, and might
have quoted in proof the great delicacy of certain
gentlemen on the resolution relative to American
seamen impressed by the British.
But it was with pleasure he bad seen, that no
reflection, no insinuation, no threats, had been ut-
tered by any gentleman on that side of the ques-
tion which he had espoused. He hoped that
nothing but fair arguments would be addpced.
If he should be in the minority^ it would 5e his
duty, and he would (as a Republican ought to do)
acquiesce in whatever might be the determina-
tion of the majority. As to the Treaty with
France, it was made before the formation of their
Constitution, which wisely provided that all en-
gagements, heretofore made, should be binding on
the new Qovernment; of course, neither the
Prebioert and Senate, nor that House, had any
Mr. S. then stated, that he did not mean, and
he hoped he should not be understood to preclude
himself from voting to carry the Treaty into
efi*ect. He held himself entirely open to convic-
tion ; and if he should find that the same was ex-
pedient^ whatever tnight be his opinion at present
on the mstrument, (aad in truth be did not think
it good) yet he would keep himself at full liberty
to act as he might think most to the interest of
this country, when that subject should come be-
fore the House.
March 18.— In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. Livtnobton's resolution :
Mr. Isaac Smith did not pretend to prescribe
limits to other men's faith, but he never could be-
lieve that men, as wise as those who composed '
the Convention, would have left so important a
relation, as was now contended for by. some gen-
tlemen, to mere uncertain eonstrnction. He be-
lieved, if they intended that House should hare
bad an agency in the making of Tualies. they
would have said so in express terms. Han they
done so T -Nothing like it. So far from it, that
they bad unequivocally appropriated the Treaty-
maKing power to the PiiEBiDiirr and two-iiura*
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H. OP K.]
TYtaly with Gnat Britain.
[Mabcb, 1796-
. of the SeiiKte, iu terms as enpresi «nd pcuiti'
vords could form: and the geDlleman i^ oppo-
sttioD could not, did not deaf it. But, say they,
this power may be abused, shamefully abused, and,
therefore, we wilt construe it out of the hsnas the
people tiave placed it io. We will assume aod
' declare □urseives the isle guardians of the peopli
and we wilt cry out liberty, liberty ; and, as th
people lore the sound, (he hoped they would aU
ways love the substauce.) perhaps they will l>e-
lieve us. Here rests the fallacy. The people
knew, whether they knew or not, that they chose
the Pbehident, and they firmly believe, as wel'
they may, that he is their guardian. The peopli
knew, also, that they chose the Senators, and they
likewise think they are their guardians. How
we, said he, became sole guardians, will r^oire a
modesty superior to that of New EngJand to e.
plain. The people hare declared (hat the Phes
DENT and Senate shall make Treaties, without -.
single 'esceptioDf and, lest there should be any
mistake or caTiUing aoout it, they have put it '
written words, as they thought, too plain to
doubted, loo positive to l»e contradicted. It ap-
peared to him that it was a sufficient answer,
though a ^oTt one, to all the laborious arguments
had in favor of their interference, Co say, that the
people wills it otherwise: nc vcio.ticjvbeo, itat
pro raiione voluntas. If they baa under consi-
deration alterations or amendnients to the Con-
stitution, those arguments might, perhaps, he pro-
per : But as matters now stand, they are mere in-
applicable declamatioo.
A gentleman from Virdnia told them that the
Oovemment of the United States was a Govern
ment of checks, but said, that, in the short time it
had eiisted, they were completely routed. Ne-
Tertheless, he mentions several cnecks that still
stand their ground : among, others, biennial elec-
tions were a check upon the Executive. Accord-
ing to his calculation, he said, they were a check
upon that House, in the ratio of four to two and
of six to two, and, therefore, the people trusted
them less than an^ other branch of Government,
aod he most cordially adopted that gentleman's
own words, "if the opinions now contended for
frevail, ootning will reouin to be done by checks."
'onstruction will answer e^rv purpose.
Several gentlemen had adduced arguments
from the Qovernment of Great Siitain, and had
attempted to assimilate the American Gioreru-
meot to it, to give them the greater force. He
would examine that matter. Did the people of
England choose their Kingevery four years? tVas
he impeachable? No, he can do no wrong. Did
they elect their House of Lords or Senate ? No,
they are hereditary as well as their President.
Mutt two-thirds oi^ them approve every Treaty
before it can become valid? No such thing. How
a parallel, then, could be formed out of such ifi-
Terging hues he left to wiser men ; it was greatly
beytHid his poor abilities, and he was equally in-
capable of comprehending arguments dr»wa from
■o mysterious a source.
A gentleman from Virginia boasted much of
the Bupenbnndant love of liberty that prevailed
in the Slate he had the hanor to represent. The
groans of three or four hundred thousand black
people held in bondage, be said, afflicted his ears,
aod made him hesitate, although he wished to be-
'* '' he had bestowed. He did
word in praise
of New Jersey ; it did not need it.
Mr. LiviHoBTON said, that the very able sup-
port this resolution had received, might seem to
release him from any obligaiioD of speaking in its
defence ; oor would he now trouble the Commit-
not been misstated, and his subsequent expUna-
for requesting the papers, that important and Con-
stitutional questions would probnoly arise on the
discussion of the Treaty. It had bveu lepiescnt-
ed, (certainly from misapprehension, not design.)
that he connoed the use of the pa{>erfl to the elii-
cidalion of a Constitutional question onljr ; and
it had been asked, with an air of great triumph,
how the instructions and correspondence could
throw any light on the question of constitution-
ality, to decide which nothing was necessary but a
comparison of the Treaty with the Constitution?
Mr. L. said he had not confined the utility of the
papers to that point, but that, if he had. it would
not be difficult to suppose a case in wnich they
were necessary to determine the constitutional it y
of the Treaty. The Constitution, be said, gave
to the PaEBinEHT the power to make Treaties,
" by and with the advice and consent of the Se-
nate." Men, respectable for their talents and pa-
triotism, had supposed that, by the true construc-
tion of this clause, the PaEsinEHT could make no
Treaty unless by the previous advice and ctHuent
of the Senate; in other words, (bat the Senate
should advise themakingof a Treaty, which they
could only do before it was commenced; and
should consent to it by a ratification after it was
icluded. He would give no positive opinion
this subject, but supposed it a p'jiinl worthy
lue attention of the House.' The construction, he
said, appeared reasonable, and had been heretofore
sanctioned by practice. Two instances he could
recollect; one was in the Treaty of HolstOD,
where Governor Blount was "vested with full
ipecially empowered by and with the
advice and consent of the Senate." The other
was found in the answer of the Prehi-
the French Minister, who offered to en-
negotiations for a Treaty of Commerce,
which the President declined, by referring him
the meeting of the Senate, which was not then
sesaion. If the pBEatDENT supposed he could
t commence a negotiation without (he consur-
Tence of the Senate, it gave force to this construc-
tion ; and, if it was a true one, nothing was more
demonstrable than ttiat the papers were necessary
to determine wliether the Treaty in this point
had been constitutionally made.
But whatever doubts, Mr. L. said, mi^bt have
been occasioned by the geneiml expfeaiiona with
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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MiBca, 1796.]
Trtaty vsith Great Britain.
which the molion had been iacroduced, the^
ceiiainly have been removed by tha ezplaoation
which had been very properly demanded by the
membeT from Connecticut (Mr. Tbacv.] He
had, on that occaaion, declared ibat the papers
were required for general iarormalion, to be ap-
^i«d as that tnformation might reoder it proper.
1. To .the supeiiD tea ding power which the
House bad over all the officvrs of Government ;
and,
2. To guide their discretion in giving or refus-
ing their sanction to the Treaty id those points
where it iDterferes with the Legislative power.
Gentlemen had found it convenient, because
some others had disavowed any intention to im-
peach, to consider the first ground as wholly
abandoned : but, in the nature of thiiiga, this could
not be the case. , It was impossibTe to deter-
mine that we would not impeach until the pa-
pers were Men. FacU. mi^ht then appear that
would render that an unavoidable measure which
was not now contemplated. If, for instance, he
■aid, instead of a Tteaty with Great Britain, we
were dow discussing one formed with the Porte,
where it is the custom for Ministers to give and to
receive presents; and, on ibe production of the
cortespondence, it should appear (hat our iVliniS'
ter had received a douceur on the signature of tbe
Treaty, he asked whether, in such case, thai
House would not think themselves obliged to im
peachi If they would, he- thought tlie obli
gation could not be denied, when cases rai^ht
exist.where, without anf previous iiBtention, an im-
peacnment was unavoidable. The iategfity of
ihegratlemanwbohadformed thisTreaty ~ ' ~
said, too weii established to lead any one
supposition that any thing of the kind could have
ocenrred in this insiaDce; but it might in others.
The idea of impetiehment, therefore, though not
at present contemplated, coold not be formally
abaadooed.
Before he considered the second and most im-
' portantground of opposition, Mr. L. said, he would
take DOttce of an objection to the form of the re-
solution by a gentiemao from South Carolina
[Hr. HabfbbJ It was of a kind which be had
not expected trom the quarter in which ii arose.
Me had objected to the humble style of request.
If we bad a right to the papers we should demand
tbem. "1 would plmE my fool here," says the
gentleman, " and require the papers as a right."
Hr. L. said, that the resolution was couched in
the reepeetful terms with which that House had
■Iwayn addressed the fltst . Magistrate of the
UiiioB i that civility and respect were always due
to him J and that be was persuaded the member
would see the propriety (on th^, as he had on
other occasions,) of transferring iato public life
that wbauii}' and politeness for wliich he was so
Kourkabte m his private intercourse. The same
featleman had oWrved, that there wa^uo rea-
wo for requesting the papers, because any mem-
ker might inspect them in the Clerk's office of the
Saute. He could not BUppoae, if this were tbe
' t papers was a good
.0 be eommn-
^t, that the pabUcity of t^e ps]
msoo lo ptove that they ought ii<
tbe courtesy of an officer of the SAiate, which they
had a right officially to receive as a body. It had .
been stated that he (Mr. L.) having had access
to these papers, could not waul any information
they might contain. He would state the facts re-
lative to that transaction : It was true, he said,
that, as Chairman of the committee appointed to
inquire into the case of impressed seamen, he had
been indulged with a, view of the instiuctions and
correspondence j but engrossed by the important
object then referred lo him, he bad paid little or
noattention to such parts as did not relate to that
subject. After an interval of some days, he went
with an intention of compleling the perusal of
them, buiwastold that he could not see them #ith-
leaveof the Senate. What I did see, added Mr.
L., convinced me of the propriety of the whole be-
ing laid before the House. I found, in so much of
the instructions as I did read, a positive direction
aclude no Treaty of Copmerce unless cer-
mportani articles were ^reed to which are
not found in the instrument before us. Among
them, if I recollect right was a stipulation, that
free ooitoms should make free goods. He had .
been informed that these instructions were altered,
and a fuller discretion given to ihe Minister; but
this was a point which Qe thought it essential the
House should be informed of. Leaving, however,
tbe ground of superintendence, which would make
this inquiry necessary, gentlemen had choseqr to
Eut questions ^ issue on ihe other point; and he
ad endeavored to show the impropriety of the
demand, by denying any discretionary power in
the Legislature, either to judge of the Treatjr it-
self, or decide on the propriety of carrying it into
effect. Mr, L. said, he was not unwilhng to meet
them on this ground, and to consider the decision
of this motion as declaratory of the sense of tbe
House on that important question, whether it is
constitutionally boand to give its sanction to eve-
ry Treaty that may be formed by the other
branches ; and to provide all tbe sums necessary
to fulfil every stipulation they may make; for, to
this extent, did all their arguments go.
Two posilions had been assumed, differing-
not materially in the power ascribed to Treaties,
but distinguished chiefly by the mode of applying
this power.
By some il was contended, that the interference
of the Legislature was necessary in some instances,
but that the Treaty operated by way of moral ob-
ligation, to enforce the necessary steps to live it
vaitdily; and that though there is a physical pow-
er of refusal, yet- it ooght in no ease to operate
against the imperior obligation.
Others had asserted, that Treaties being the su-
preme law, might operate direetly. without the
mtervention of any other body. That where ex-
istiiur Legislative acts opposed their exeeutiou,
theTreaty was paxamaant. and could repeal
them.
These positions were in fact the same, because,
if a Treatf was, at all events, to have effect, it
was perfeotly immaterial, whether it operand di-
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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TVeoiy vtth Oreat Britaiti.
[March, 1796.
recDy bf iu own power, or indirectly by the in-
atrumentality of aDoiher body; both, he thought,
equally subTCraive of lie principles ot the Go-
Ternmeut ; but th^fint was most degrading to the
Legislative dignity. Nor could he diaoover from
what part of the Constitution it was inferred.
WhereTer,in that iDstruineni.a duty was imposed,
it was clearly and explicitly astigned, as id case
of the PREBiDEHT'e compensatioD, t&at of the
Judge.'!, and many other insiaoces. It is not, then,
to be conceired, that so impoitant an abli^atiDn as
this should have been left to implication. If it
had been intended so to annihilate this discretion,
the same language would bare been used. " Con-
gress shall pass laws to carry every Treaty into
effect," but nothing of this kind appears. Again,
if it had been intended to make Treaties para^
mount OTer.laws, it would seem to hare been the
more simple mode, to have dispensed with their
interference. Why leare a phantom of discre-
tion.an unreal mockery of power, in the hands of
the Legislature*! In order to get rid of this diffi-
culty, some gentlemen seem willing' to allow a
apecies of voUiion. but it wasapittanee that would
be scarcely worth accepting. In cases of extreme
necessity, and in others, where, from corruption
or other good cause, the compact is void, this
House, they say, may refuse to carry it into effect.
In rLs Rr.t no.A «k^.^ ;. ^g impossible to gi '
In the first oase, where it
ficacy to a Treaty, the power of refusing it was
SDrei}| ot little valne. And where the compact is
void'- in itself, the liberty of not being bound by
it, would scarcely be contended foE. If the sub-
• jecl were less serious, Mr. L. said, one would be
tempted to smile at the efforts that are made to
recoitcile the Constitutional predestination con-
teuded for, with the free agency of discretion. It
was as difficult to be understood, as the most en-
tangled theoloffical controversy, and. like most
dispatants in tnat science, they concluded with
anathemas against all who could not comprehend,
or would not believe them. We have a discre-
tion, whether to act or not, say they ; but we are
under an obligation to act, and if we do not, we
are guilty of treason and rebellion. Thi? was the
nme kind of discretion a man ha;, whether be
will commit murder or let it alone ; he may do it,
but if he does, he will be hanged. This was a
wone alternative than that generally called Hob-
■on'a choice — that was, "this or nothing^' but
here we are told, " do this, or be hanged for a trai-
toT." 80 that hereafter, when any one intended
to eipreM an inevitable necessity, he would call
it Ccmgressional discretion.
If, then, the Treaty does not operate by way of
oUigatioD on the Legislative power, let us, said
Mr. L., examine, whether, as is contended, "a
TreatT is p«iamonnt to a law, and can repeal it,
tkcmgli it, itself, cannot be acted on by the Legis-
tive power ;" this, he said, was the moat import-
uit qaeitioo that had eret been agitated within
these wella. It evidently tended to the substitu-
te bf a foreign Power, in lieu of the popular
wanch; it was replete with the most aerious evils.
He could never mppoae k greM and pernicious
u abmtdiljr was oontemplued by the Constitu-
tion ; but, if such was the true construction, gr«at
as the evil was, we must submit, until it could be
legally amended.
The Constitution gave alt Legislative power to
the Congress of the United States; vested the
power ol makinz Treaties in the Prebidekt and
Senate, and declared that the Constitution, the
taws made in pursuance thereof, and .Trejities
made under the authority of the United Slates.
should he the supreme law of the land. He had
always considered the order in Which this enume-
ration was made as. descriptive of the relative au-
thority of each. 1st. The Constitution, which nd
other act could operate on. 8d. The laws made
in pursuance thereof 3d. Treaties, when they
contradicted neither i for, if no weight was given
to this argument, Treaties would be superior, both
to the Constitution and the laws, as there is no-
restriction with respect to them as in the case of
laws, that they be made pursuant to the Constitu-
tion. He did not t>elieve gentlemen would con-
tend for this absurdity; they must therefore refer
to the order of the enumeration to nleasure the
relative effect of the Constitution, laws, and Trea-
ties. If the objects of Legtstgiiion and of Treaty
compact could be keptdistinct, no question wonid
arise, there would be no pretext for interference,
bnt they couMnot; almost every object of legisla*
tion might also become that of compact with a
foreign Power.
He then read the enumeration 0/ powers vested
in Congress, and said, that many of^tbese had al-
ready become the objects of Treaty; many more
probably wonld be ; and the whole, directly or in-
directly, were liable to be embraced by it. If. then,
all, or even any one of these objects may be regu-
lated by the Treaty, williont any interference of
law, the Constitution, said Mr. L,, has contained
the evident absurdity of submitting the same ob-
ject at the sametimetoThe control of two distinct
Eowers. An absurdity that could not be destroyed
ul by supposing, that it was intended these dif-
ferent powers should operate under this ConstitD-
tion as they do in that of England ; so that every
Treaty operating on objects submitted to the Le-
gislative power should receive its sanction before
11 look effect. This construction would reconcile
at] the parts of the inntmment to each other;
whereas, the other would set them it ^
and, by degrees, deprive the House of Represent-
atives of ail the share in legislation. This was not
reasoning, he said, from an abuse of power. If it
was properly vested in the PneainENTand Senate,
it WBsnotouly permitted, but it was their duty 10
use it^ and do one could call the exercise of a Con-
stitutional right an abnse of power. He admitted
that, if the text were explicit, TeaMning from con-
sequences was a bad mode ; but, as that was not
pretended in the present case, it wonld be w«ll to
weigh the serious ertis that attended tlieconstruo-
lion gentlemen contended for, and to inquire whe-
ther there is more danger in trusting the Repre-
sentatives of the people with a eheek on all Trea-
ties relating to those objects which are specially
vested in them by the Constittition, than in making
those RepresebUtiTes subservient to the will of
.dbyGoogle
mSTOHY OF CONGRESS.
TVeofJi tnlA Oreat Britain.
[H.o
rei^ Power
Iq lookioK for the trae construction of this innni-
ment. we snould consider ihe state of things at the
time it was proposed and adopted. The opposi-
tion it met was well known, and the power given
to the Senate and Prebidbkt was considered as
one great cause of opposition. It cannot be sup-
posed, as the-Mntimentsof the people were known
if Ihe framers of the ConstiiutioD, that they
would have proposed any plan mote energetic than
the QoTemmeni of Great Britain.
But it was probable. Mr. L. said, that the Trea-
ty power waa intended to be placed in the Pbebi-
DBMTand Senate to fbesame extent only in which
it existed in the BxecotiTcof Great Britain. The
words of our Constitution on this point were the
same made use of by Britisb writers in defining
the corresptonding power in their OoverDineitt,
and it seemed erideDt that some of io features
Sand this was none of the least prominent) were
raws from that original. He was happy that the
parallel was not perfect in other instances. He
thought it completely so in this ; and that the prac-
tice therefore of that Gorernment would, in some
measure, lead to the true construction of this.
Aware of the weight of precedents drawn from
English history, gentlemen endeaTored to weaken
them by a Tery ingenious argument ; "The British
Constitution," say they, "is not written, it is form-
ed of uaaccs ; if jon prove, therefore, that it is
the nsage for British ParlJKments to sanction Trea-
ties, you prove it to be their Constitution, but you
do not prove it to be ours." It was true, Mr. L.
observM, that the English Constitution was form-
ed partly of immemorial asages; but il was also
true, that those usages were collected in books
of authority, and that the different powers of Go-
is well
known and deSned as they were in that of Ame-
rica. It had been shown by tf reference to writers
of the best authority, that, by the Constitution of
England, the power of makingall Treaties was in
the King; bnt as the power of roakine all laws
was in the Parliament, this latter, as the greater
power, controlled the former, whenever it affected
objects of legislation. Thus, in the Constitntion of
the United States, he contended, the power of mak-
ing Treaties, thai is, all Treaties, vested in the Pbb-
aiDEHT and Senate ; but, as all Legi^tive power
i» Tested in Congress no Treaty operating upon
any object of legislation can take effect until it
teeeives the sanction of Congress. The practice,
■no, was the mme. The King asserted nis right
of making and completing Treaties, by not only
cnneluding, but ratilying them, before they were
snbmitted to Parliament, bnt he believed noCom-
joerciil Treaty was proclaimed as the law of the
jud before it had received the sanction of Par-
"•ment Indeed, it was impHHsible, in any conn-
fy, and tinder any Constlintion, where the Legis-
utive nnd Treaty-making powers are lodged in
(■Ureient bands, that any oner construction can
"given without rnnning into the absurdity he
had before hinted at, of making two different pow-
ers supreme over the same object at the sam«
time. Out ideas had been confounded by referring
to the practice of Governments where the two
powers were united, and where a ratification gave
the consent of both.
If, then, there was a perfect aitalogy between
the power vested in the Crown in England, and
that delegated to the Prebident and Senate in
America, on the subject of Treaties ; and if the
Parliament, by virtue of its general Legislative
authoril^, was in the practice of givinn or with-
holdicf; its sanction to Treaties conclutled by the
King, It was but a fair inference to say, that the
same discretion existed in Congress.
Some instances of the exercise of this power by
Parliament had been before quoted by others. The
inexecution of the Treaty of Utrecht, in conse-
quence of Parliamentary opposition, and the diffi-
culties with which the Commercial Treaty with
France was carried through the House of Com-
mons, in 17B7, had been already noticed. He
would mention two other precedents drawn from '
the same source equally striking, or perhaps more
so, as the course of proceeding there followed was
precisely that which was proposed by the resolu-
tion in debate. The first was the proeeedins on
the Barrier Treaty, taken from Ihe Sth vol- Pari.
Debates, p. 43. where the House of Commons be-
gan, by a resolution to address the Queen, ''that
all instruction and orders given to the Plenipolen-
tisriei that transacted the Barrier Treaty, and also
all Treaties mentioned and referred to in the said
Treaty, might be laid before the House, except
such Treaties as they already had." We are told
in the subsequent page, that on the 13(h, that is,
only two days after the request, " Mr. Secretary
St. John presented to the House, by Her Majes-
g's command, a copy of the instructions to the
nke of Marlborough and Lord Townsend, about
the Barrier Treaty, extracts of letters from Mr.
Boyle to Lord Townsend, concerning the said
Treaty ; also, a copy of the Preliminary Arti-
cles, signed at the Hague ; the titles of which co-
pies and extracts of letters wefe referred to the
Committee of the Whole House. After this, it
was resolved to present an address to Her Ma-
jesty, that the letters written by Lord Townsend
to Mr. Boyle, the Seeretary of State, dated the
1st and 26th of November, 1709, might be laid be-
fore the House, which Mr. Secretary St. John
eccordiugly did ob the 14th of February." After
having obtained the papers, Mr. L. said, the House
of Commons proceeaea to the consideration of the
Treaty in Committee of the Whole, and voted,
1st, That the Treaty contained articles destruc-
tive to the trade and interest of Great Britain.
2. That the negotiator had acted without authori-
ty. 3d. That the advisers and negotiators were
enemies to the Queen and Kingdom.
The Treaty being thus obstructed, the States
General remonstrated to the Queen on the sub-
ject ; bnt, conscious that the Parliament were only
exercising a Constitutional power, they maka ^
complaints in their memorial of any breach of
faith, though the Treaty had been ratified. They
enter into the merits of^the Treaty, oSi>r to tiego-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OFR.]
Trtattf with Great Britain.
[HaR{
tiate OQ the obnoxious article*, and cooclude with
"enlrealiDjc the cootinQaDce of Her Majesty's
friendship."
This instance, then, said Mr. L., is complete lo
show the propriety of a call for papers by the
House of Commons J a ready compliance on the
¥Lr[ of the Crown, a deliberation on a ratified
tealy, a [ejection of il, and an acquiescence on
the part of the foreign nation, without remon-
The other instance was an address in the year
1714, requesting '■ the Treaties of Peace and Com-
merce between Her Majesty and the King of
Spain, and the instructions given to Her Majesty's
Ambassadors thereupon, together with the copies
of the Kins of Spain's ratifications of the said
Treaties,Bna the preliminaries signed by the Lord
Lexington and the Marquis of Bedmar. at Madrid,
and all other agreements and stipulations which
had been made concerniug the commerce bctwoun
Great Britain and Spain. 2dly. An account of
what engagements of guaranty Her Majesiv had
' entered into by virtue of any Treaty witn any
foreign Prince or State, from tne year 1710. And
3dly. An account of what instances had been used
by Her Majesty for restoring to the Catalans their
ancient privileges, and all Tetters relating there"
unto. And then il was resolved, to take into fur-
ther consideration the Message tnat day sent from
the Lords upon Thursday neit following."
Objections had been raised to thix
drawn from three difierent sources.
1. From the prevalent constructioi
of establishing the Constitution.
S. From the practice of the Gorei
that period.
3. From the present ideas entertained by the
people of the United States.
1st. As to the construction senerally received
when the Constitution was adopted, Mr. L. did
not conceive it to be conclusive, even if admitted
to be contrary to that now contended for ; because
he believed we were now as capable at least of
determining the tiue meaning ot that instrument
as the OonTentions were : &ej were called In
haste, they were heated by party, and many
adopted it from expediency, witnout having fully
debated the different articles. But he did not be-
lieve the geiieraJ construction at that lime differed
from the one he had adopted. A member from
Vii^inia [Mr. BBEifr] bad shown, by recurring to
the debates in the Convention of that State, ~ '
it in the manner that we do; whilst _..
endeavored to Tender it odious and unpopular, by
endeavoring to fix on it the contrary construction.
And as the friends to the Conslituiion were the
most numerous, we ought rather to take the ex-
rianation under which a majority accepted the
Constitution, as the true one, than to look for it
in the bugbears b^ which anti- Federalism endea-
yored to prevent its adoption.
2d. The second argument that had been used to
deprive the Legislature of any right of interference,
in cases of this kind, was drawn from the uniform
practice of the Government ever since its fonn-
atioD. The gentleman from South Carolina [Mr.
Suits] who made this objection, had cited one
instance of this practice in the resolution directing
Treaties to be published with the laws, and had
advened to the approtviations for the Indian
Treaties, (under tho general head of the Military
Establishment,) as favoring his principle. As to
the resolution, Mr. L. said, there was no doubt
that Treaties, when properly sanctioned, ought lo
be observed, and therefore the resolution was
proper, that they ought to be promulgated. On
the subject of appropriation, it had been well ob-
served by a gentleutao from Virginia [.Mr. Giles]
that the House exercised as much discretion in
granting the supply, by way of addition to the
military appropriations, as if it had been given
Epecklfy for the purposes of the Treaty. But the
truth is, said Mr. L., that an accurate exatninaiion
into thu communications of the Executive inana-
lOKOns cases, and the proceedings of this House,
wul form a strong, I think an irresistible, argument
in iavoi of the resolution. It would a[n>ear, he
said, from the view he was about to take, thai
from the first establishment of the ConGtitution
until the negotiation of this Treaty was begun, the
Executive had been in habits of tree commuoica'
tiou with the Legislature as to our external rela-
tions i that their authority in questions of com-
merce, navigation. boundaTy,aiid intercourse with
the Indian tribes, bad been exjxes^j^ recc^^ised,
even when difficulties on these questions were to
be adjusted by Treaty.
The first case related to a proTision for an In-
dian Treaty, and was suggested by the Pbbsiobjit,
in a Message of the 7th of August, 1789, in which
be says: "If it should be the, judgment of Con-
gress chat it would be most expedient to terminate
all differences in the Southern District, and to lay
the foundation for luture confidence bv an arnica*
ble Treaty with the Indian tribes in tnat quarter,
I think proper to sug^t the consideration of the
expediency of instituting a temporary commission
for that purpose, to consist of three persons, whose
authority should expire with the oceasion." In
consequence of this Message, Congress took into
consideration the expediency of the measure re-
commeoded to them, and passed the act of the
S3th of August, in the same year, appropriating
twenty thousano dollars for defrayiDg the expense
of negotiating and tteslingwith the Indian tribes,
and authorizing theappointmentof Commissioners.
The Presiobnt having appointed Commissioners
to treat under the direction of the act, gave them
instructions, which were communicated to the
House, and from which this is an extract : '* You
will please to observe, ttut the whole sum that
can be constitutionally expended is twenty thoa-
tand dollars, and that the same cannot be extend-
ed." Nothing having been effected by the Com-
missioners, the pBBeioBNT mentioned the subject
again in hu> Address to both Houses, on the 1st of
January, 1792. In the month of March, in the
oommittee : " That proviaian ought to be made by
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OP CONGRESS.
Tnaty wiih Great Britean.
law for balding a Treat}' to establish peace. bo-
tweea tbe United Stales and the Wabosb. Miami,
and otber nations of Indians, Northwest of the
river Ohio; also, for regulating trade and inter-
course with [he Indian tribes, and tbe mode of ex-
tiDguishiDe their claims to lands within the limits
□r the United Sutes." On the 29th March, fol-
lowing, a bill passed Ibe House of Reptesentattves,
the title of which was amended in (he Senate Snd
passed, appioprialing twenty thousand dollars for
purposes expressed in the preceding resolution.
Mr. L. s«id this case was important, as it was
the first communication relative to a Treaty made
under tbe Constiiulion. An attentive examina-
tion of its different parts would show that very
different ideas were then entertained from (hose
which were now enforced. He would first ob-
serve, that (he discretion of the House of Repre-
seotatires as to commerce with foreign nations,
stood precisely on the t^amc foulinf^with that which
they ought to exercise in regulating intercuurse
wilQ the Indian tribes ; that if one could be done
without tbeir concurrence, by Treaty, the other
might also; and thai, therefore, when the Pbesi-
DENT recognised their right to deliberate in one
case, be virtually did it in the other. Let us then
attend to the lai^uage of the Message, said Mr.
L., and we shall find that rieht of delibeialion
most expressly leferied to. '' If it should be the
judgment of Coitgress that it would be most expe-
dient"—what can be more explicit than this lao-
Suagel And again, "I think proper to suggest
le consideration of the expediency of instituting
a temporary commission." Here tne same discre-
tion is not only applied to, but the PaEainEnT, at
that time supposing that no implicated power
could deprive Congress of the right to regulate
trade and intercourse with tbe Indian tribes, sub-
mitted to their consideration the expediency of
appointing Comioitsioners. They passed the ne-
cessary laws, and he instructed the Commission-
ers, not in the laMuage that is now held, that they
might stipulate for the payment of any sum, and
that CoDgress would be obliged to find the means)
but he telb them, '' the only sum tliac can be con-
stitutionally expended is twenty thousand dollars,
and that tbe same cannot be extended." Why^ (if
the doctrine is true that we are under an ohLiga-
liou to complr with the terms of every Treaty
made by the Pbesideht and Senate) why did he
say 00 further sum could constitutionally be ex-
pended? If that doctrine were indeed true, his
language would have been, Use what money ioay
be necessary, contract for the payment of il in
yoar Treaty, and Congress are constitutionally
obliged to carry your stipulations into effect.
The resolution above quoted, Mr, L. said, was
important, as it proved that Congress theti sup-
rd that they ought not only to provide by law
holding a Treaty with the Indians, but that
(hey also bad tbe power, and ought to exercise it,
of regulating trade and intercourse with the same
people, and of prescribing tbe mode of extinguish-
ing their claims to lands within the United States ;
bat all this, said he. it is now discovered may be
done without their aid, by Treaty.
[H. orR.
The second instance of the exercise of this
dreaded discretion, was in the law of Murch 3d,
1791. appropriating twenty thousand dollars t«
enable the Pbesidbnt to effect a negotiation of
tbe Treaty with Morocco. This originated in the
Senate, and is a decided proof that neithei tbe
PaESiOENT nor Senate had at that period any idea
of the moral obligation that is now discovered, or
they would, without tbe formality of a law, have
at once stipulated with the new Kmpeior lor the
Kyment of the necessary sum, wbicn must have
en provided by the House.
In a third case, the Prebiuent bad thought
proper to take the sense of that House in a matter
that of all others demanded secrecy, and under
circumstances that would have prevented his
making the application, if he had conceived him-
self at liberty to act without their concurrence-
He adverted to tbe Message of 30lb December,
1790, where the PaBBinENT says; "I lay before
you a Report of tbe Secretary of State, on the
subject of the citizens of the United States in
captivity at Algiers, that you may provide in their
behalf what to you shall seem expedient."
conceive himself authorized to bind the United
States by Treaty, for the necessary ransom of their
citizens; and therefore nothing was concluded
until al^er a subsequent Message and previous
appropiialioa, in the year 1793, when another
Message was sent relative to the negotiations with
Morocco and Algiers, then pending: " While it i»
proper [he saysj that our citizens should know
that subjects which so much concern their inte-
rests and their feelings, have duly engaged the
attention of their Legislature and Executive, it
would still be improper that some part of this
communication should be made known." Part of
this Message, therefore, was confidentially com-
municated, which shows. Mi. L. said, on some
occasions, it was not deemed imprudent to trust
this House with tbe secrets of the Cabinet ; and
in consequence of this Message, a law was pasted,
appropriating one hundred thousand dollars for the
purchase of a peace with (he Algerines. It was
ostensibly appropriated to a more general pur-
pose, but tbe intent was well understood.
The next transaction that he should quote, Mr.
L. said, as favorable to his doctrine, was the Mes-
sage of the PaEBinEN-r of the 5tb December, 1793,
and the measure to which it gave rise. The Pre- '
aiuENT says: "As the present situation of tbe
several nations of Europe, and especially those
with which the United States have important re-
lations, cannot but render the state of things be-
tween them and us matter of interesting inquiry
to tbe Legislariire, and may, indeed, give rise to
deliberations (o which they alone are competent,
I have thought it my duty to' communicate to them
certain correspondence which has taken place.
This Message, Mr. L. said, accoinpauied tbe
papers relative to France, to Great Britain, and
to Spain ; and a question would immediately oc-
cur, what were tue deliberations to which the
PnEsiDENT thea thought (be Legislature alotke
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
P.R.]
Treaty vith Oreat Britain.
[Mai
I. 1796.
was competeDl, and which he therefore thought
it his dnljr to commiuiicaie. All our diiputea with
the nalions referred to in the Message, were auch
aa on the Dew coostruciion of the Trea^ power
he could hare adjusted by compact, without any
reference to the House of ReptesentBtiTe^ ; but it
is plain, by the ezpreaa worda of the Meaaage, that
he did not believe that construction. It was no
atuwer, Mr. L. said, to the argument drawa from
this transaction, to say, that the Fresidekt only
sabmitted the question of War or Peace to the
Legislature by inis Message:
1. Beeanse the Message related to the three
principal nations in Europe, and he n«Ter could
bare imagined that Congress would hare delibe-
rated on going to war wiili them all.
2. This was eridenlly not his intention, because
as soon as measures were proposed in that House,
which he supposed would lead to a rupture with
one of those naiiona, all these measures were
palsied by the appointment of an Eovoy, and the
commencement of negotiation.
It was clear, then, that the Prbbideht thought
the matters communicated by his Message, which
related to commerce and boundary, were consti-
tutionally rested in the discretion of Congress.
The idea was corroborated by the words of a
Message relatJTe to the negotiation with Spain : '
" And, therefore, by and with the advice and consent
of tho Senate, I appinnted Commisrianera Plenipoten-
tiaiy for negotiating and conchidinga Treaty with that
oaontry, on the scTeral lubjecti ot boundary, nsTiga-
tion, and commerce, and gaTo titem die hutractions avw
communicated."
Why, said Mr. L., communicate the iostructions
to the Ministera'? Because they related to com-
merce, to navigation, to boundary, on all which
subjects the President must have thought the
Legislature had a right of decision. He must
have thought so at that period ; but, unforiunately,
all precedent of free commuQicetJon ended here:
Mr. Jay's negotiation began, and a different con-
slraclioD was assumed.
From this view of the acta of Government, Mr.
L. said, he trusted that a far different impression
would be made, than that the doctrine he con-
tanded for was a new one, originating in opposi-
tion to the English Treatjr, and a desire to disor-
^nize the Government. That, on the contrary.
It had been declared by the PaEeiDENT, acquiesced
in by the Senate, aod acted upon by the House
of Representatives.
3. One other test of construction remained for
examination. It had been relied on by a member
from South Carolina [Mr. SmitrJ he would
therefore notice it ; it was the present opinion of
the citizens of the United Sialei, as ezjiressed
by their town-meetings, and by their Legisla-
tures. Mr. L. said, he did not suppose that the
sense of the people on this subject could be per-
fectly collected, It could only be known by their
applications to this House ; and in those, he said,
an appeal wafe made to that very discrelion which
it was contended did not exist. The petitions in
fcvor of Treaty, and those which were presented
against it, bota acknowledged the rifht of the i
House (□ interfere. The Legislatures spoke the
same language ; some had approved of the conduct
of those who made the Treaty ; but alt he believed
were silent as to the power of this House. As to
the town-meeting, he didnot eziwct tobear them
quoted as authority by the gentleman who had
intttiduced them. His fellow-citizens of New
Yodt, Mr. L. said, wonld be surprised when they
heatd the name of thegentleman whohad ushered
them on the floor of that House ; since they were
there, however, said Mr. L., k't ua hear ttie Ian-
guage of their Address to the President. They
need not be ashamed of it, and he would answer
for its contradicting the position of the gentleman '
who quoted it. [He then read several extracts from
the Hew York resolves to show that they thought
the rights of the House were infringed by the
Treaty.]
Thus, said Mr. L., to whatever source of argu-
ment we refer, we Bnd the Constitutional power
of this House fully established ; whether we recur
to the words of the Constilulion, where the power
is expressly given, and is to be lost only by impli-
cation ; whether we have recourse to the opinions
of the majoriliea who adopted the Constitution;
to the uniform practice of tne Government under
it ; to the opinions of our constituents, as expressed
in their petitions; or, to the analogous proceed-
ings in a Government constructed, in this parti-
cular, like our own. Tet, after all this, we are
(old, said he, that if we question the supremacy of
the Treaty-making power, we commit treason
been so long in public
men who made them ; but he would boidfy pro-
nounce it unparliamentary and improper. Be-
sides, sajd Mr. L., this language is wrong in ano-
ther view; it may frijhten men of weax nerves
from a worthy pursuit ; for my own part, said he,
when I heard the member from Vermont compare
the authority of the PRBSinENT and Senate to the
majesty of Heaven, and the Proclamation to the
voice of thunder ; when he appealed to his sei^
vices for his country, and showed the wounds re-
ceived in her defence ; when he completed his
pathetic address by a charge of treason and rebel-
lion, I was, for a moment, astonished at my own
temerity ; his eloquence so overpowered me, that,
" Methought the cIoudB did (peak and teD ma of it,
The windi did sing it to me, and the thondi^,
That deep and drrodM organ pipe, pcraoniiosd
The chsrge of treaMu."
I was, however, relieved from this trepidalion
(continued Mr. L.) bv a moment's renection,
which convinced me tnat all the dreadful conse-
quence arose from the gentleman's taking that for
gmnted, which remained to be proved. He had
only assumed^ that the measure was unconstitu-
tional, and then the rest followed of course. From
my soul, said Mr. L., I honor the veteran who has
fought to establish the liberties of his country ; I
loot with reverence on his wounds; I feel hum-
bled in bis presBDce, and regret that a tender age
did not permit me lb share his glorious deeds. 1
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OF GONGRBiSB.
Treaty mih Great Britain,
when ne umagines the libeiiy for which ha has
fnozht is about to be destroyed ; but I canno'
tend my cbaiity to men who, whhout the s
merits, coollv rc'ccho the charge! AnoiLeji ob-
servatioa had escaped from the same member in
the heat of debate, which another from Sonth
Carolina [Mr. Smith] (o whom he before alluded
had repeated with aigb encomiuma. It^Bs
this, that eacroachment was more to be af^r
bended from the popular, than froin any oiIie
branch of Government. This doctrine Mr. L. cot
sidered as hishly pernicious to liberty ; and as uc
founded in »ct^as it was improper. Wher^ he
asked, will gentlemen find ucts to justify their
opinions ? <
If it were true, there would now be none but
popular Governments in existence ; they would
have encroached on the Kingly power, until all
power was centered in them uone. The sad re-
verse, however, was the fact. All Europe had
once been free ; all Europe, with the eiception of
Prance and Switzerland, were now in chains.
Where, then, would historical facts be foiind to
justify the charge 1 In the obsequious Parliament
of Britain? In the houseless assembly of Naples 7
Or,the degraded fortes of Spain 1 Is the hundred
years' sleep that had involved the States of Por-
tugal 7 Would gentlemen look for them in the
tyranny of Russia and Germany 7 In the military
despoljsia of Prussia, or the ecclesiastical line of
Rome? Why, then, if unsupported either by
theory or fact, are tne peopU told, be on your
guard again3t the popular part of your Constitu-
tion ; shut your eyes to the conduct of the Execu-
tive and Senat& they can never encroach^but be-
ware of the ambition of your Representatives I
He would notice one other objection that had
been raised, and then conclude ; It was said, if the
PaeaiDENT supposed these papers oecfMRFV^ he
would have sent them ; aud that we mignt offend
him. hy this request. Mr. L. said, this was not the
first time that measures were endeavored to be
carried, by appealing to the character of the Pre-
siDBKT. He sincerely admired aod resoected the
character oftbatgreatman; hewas jealovof his
reputation, and,a« an American, was inierested in
his glory ; no consideration should ever tempt him
to destroy one leaf of his well-earned laurels ; but,
while he had the honor of a seat in that House,
be would resist every attempt to cover improper
ineasurea by the splendor or any man's repuia-
He had before remarked the singti^ tendency
of argument in this question towards the mjs-
tecy of theology ; it was not onlv predestiaatioa
>na free agency, we are now told that we muHt
have fall faith in the PanaiDEHT, and that be and
the Senate can do no wrong. What, sir, said Mr.
Ij^ has, faith, banished by modern infidelity from
religion, taken refuge in politics? Has this doc-
'rioe of human inrallibility been transferred from
the ritual into our Constitution?
Mr. L. concluded, beggioff the pardon of the
Committee for the unavoidable length of hia in-
*estigatioD; he felt hqir utterly incompetent he
had been to the task, but be wasconsoled J» re-
flecting on the eloquence and ability by wluclt
the motion had been supported by others.
March 21.-^1o Committee of the Whole oo
Mr. Livinqston'b resolution :
Mr. Williams observed much bad been said
upon the subject of the preiient resolution, and so
much time consumed, that he should confine his
observations within a narrower compass than he
at first intended.
It was contended that in a Republican Govern-
ment there ought to be no secrets j but he would
ask whether it was not specified in the Constitu-
tion that secrecy should be observed on particular
occasions? and,b8dnothis colleague [Mr.LiviNO-
ston] quoted the secret Journal of the House?
He Relieved if the Constitution of Prance were
examined, it would be found that their system ad-
mitted of secrets. He had the honor, he said, to
be upon a committee, before whom many papers
were laid, which it would be improper to publish.
With respect to the present papers, he did not
think there were any secrets in them. He be-
lieved he had seen them all. For the space of
ten weeks any member of that House might have
seen them. . It was not merely with respect to the
E resent papers that he opposed the motion, but
ecause it would be esiablisnin? a bad precedent ;
and. as they were a young Qovcrument, they
ought to be cautious how they established bad
precedents. It was well known that in the nego-
tiations in time of war. confidential communica-
tions were necessary; out if no papers were al-
lowed to be kept secret, what person would ever
venture to make any such communication 7 Hence
this country, when in the greatest danger, may be
much injured by improper precedents.
He quoted authorities to prove that there never
was but one precedent in Great Britain of a nego-
tiator's papers being given up, that was in the
lasLyear of the reigo of ^ueen Anne, when the
Ministry were soon afterwards ofalised to fly their
country. He wassorry that a gentfeman returned
by the Republican interest of one of the first cities
of the Union should have had recourse to a des-
perate Tory facti(»i for a precedenL
Some gentlemen had observed that the papers
ought to be obtained, because the Pbebipeht bad
intimated, in his Speech, that he would, lay the
papers before the House with the Treaty; but
they were mistaken in their observations, because
the papers had not been laid before us.
Agentleman from Pennsylvania said, becaiue '
tl^e King of England laid the papers relative to a
negotiation be^re Parliament along with the
Treaty to which they related, the^ had also a cisht
to papers, the Governments being sinular; Iqf
when the King did this, he informed (hem that
he had concluded such a Treaty; and af^er a
thing was concluded, he did not know what could
remain for Parliament to do. He would refer t»
a recent authority, and not go back to 1714; it
was to the case of the Treaty with Great Britain
respecting Amerio^n loyalists, whsK papers were
refused to be given up, and it was deemed a. moat
inconsistent thing to lequite tkem. Tbv btuipeis
;dbiG0«»gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Treaty with Great Britain.
[Mabch, 1796.
«8uaed ^eat debates in PaTliameDt, and the mo-
tion for papers was lost, there being only sixty-
three for it, and one hundred and four against iL
Mr. W. read the obserrationa of different mem-
bers of Parliament on the occastaa, and abserred,
thai although he was unwillia^ to quote prece-
dents from a Government not similar to ours, yet
this was a case io point, and this Treaty was nego-
tiated between Mr. Jay, on the part of the United
Slates, and Mr. Oswald on the part of Great
Britain.
The resolution before them called for all papers,
whether public or private, except such as related
to any existing negotiation; but as the Treaty
was completed the resolution included all papeo.
He should have had less objection to the motion,
if the amendment proposed by the gentleman
from Yirtrinia had been adopted. He did not see
the use the papers would be of if they were got.
The House w«s not vested with either the power
to alter or amend the Treaty. But, say gentle-
men, they are wanted for information. But he
believed they ought to form their judgments of
the Treaty from the instrument itself Suppose
1 were to employ an agent, and give him instruc-
tions to make a contract for me, on condition that
it should not be binding until I had approved it;
and my agent return and 1 approve of the con-
tract, what light can be thrown upon it by the
instructions which were given to the agent 1 The
instrument alone was what most be had recourse
to; because he bad it in his power to have with-
held his sanction.
If his information was right, when certain reso-
talions were brought forward in ttieyear 1793, a
gentleman from Virginia said that Great Britain
would refuse to negotiate with this country ; but
immediately upon the Treaty being made known,
it was everythmg that was bad.
_ He would anifeavor to answer some observa-
tions which had fallen from a gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. Giles.] It was asked if the Treaty
power could receive any check? He conceived
the will of the people ought to be obeyed. They
had given power to the President and Senate tc
make Treaties, which if notcomplied with, would
be to oppose their will. In speaking of the amend-
ments proposed to the Constitution by the Legis-
lature of Virginia^ it was said they .were only m-
tended'to make tne check more certain tlian at
]>resentj but he read the resolution, viz: "That
no Treaty containing any stipulations upon tht
subject or the powers rested m Congress by th(
eighth section of the first article, sbalfbecome Ae
supreme taw of the land, until it shall have been
approved in those particulars by a majority in
4he Ho«e of Representatives: That the Presc-
DEHT, before he shall ratify any Treaty, shall sub-
mit the same to the House of Representatives ;"
and insisted that it mi'ghi he clearly deduced from
•them, that they did not conceive the Treaty
g)wer to Mve any check in that House. That
late had kept uniformly the same ground in all
thelt actions f but the different Slate Legislatures,
to which their amendments had been prooosed, had
deierminb4 the Tre«ty povrer rightly placed
where it is at present. Bot because the people
will not agree that they should have a check uoon
the Treaty power, gentlemen seem disposed to
usurp it by their present doctrines..
The same gentleman [Mr. Giles] observed,
that the checks in the Govt rnraeni of the United
Slates had been completely routeJ for these six
years. He wasexceemngly sorry that the Presi-
DB«r could bind that House, but he said that vas
sword that cut two ways. It was too late in
the day to assert this doctrine, when the people
were become so enlightened as to be better ac-
quainted with the nature of Government, and
better educated than the people of any other na-
tion ia the world. They would, therefore, take
care of themselves.
He said that a gentleman from South Carolina
had observed that the,Trealy was put into opera-
tion by the Proclamation of the Phebident, and
made a part of the laws of the land. An honor-
able gentleman from Vireinia [Mr. GiLKaJgranled
that, when completed, the Treaty ought to be an-
nexed lb the laws. Mr. W. asked, was this not
done? It had been promulgated m the way in
which Treaties are directed to be promulgated;
and he would ask, if a case were to come before
the member from Virginia [Mr. Giles] had been
opposed to the Treaty going into operation, why
' " ' "' jper mode to prevent ill
did he nol take the' ^
He knew of the resolution which directed how
aties are to be promulgated and annexed to
code of laws, be knew tne Treaty had arrived,
and he might have had the subject discussed. If
a majority were for preventing the Treaty from
being promulgated in the ordinary way, then the
resolution might have been done away, and some
other mode adopted which was thought most
prudent*
The same gentleman next contended that law
can annul Treaties. But he believed that the
Constitution decided that there was no other
way of repealing Treaties bul by mutual agree-
ment of the parties, or by war. To break one
articl^of a Treaty was to break the whole, and
war, or a new Treaty, must be the consequence.
Thereason he gave why laws could repeal Trea-
ties was, because laws were the will of tne people.
Treaties, Mr. W. said, were as much the will of
the people as laws. The people had fixed bar-
riers' to the different branches of the Consiitution,
which could not be overleaped without endanger-
ing the whole fabric.
In speaking of power, gentlemen say it is more
likely to be abused in the Executive than in that
House. But, in the year 1789, when amendments
ware first proposed to the States, a gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. Madison] asserted " that it
was less necessary to guard against abuse in the
Execuive department than any other, because it
wasnottbb stronger branch of the-system.but
the weaker; it therefore must be levelled against
the Legislative, for it is the m<^l powerful, and
the most likely to be abused, because it is under
(be leaM control ;" and "Mr. W. quoted several
Dsizoc I.Google
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Freaty viih Ortat Britain.
[H. OF R.
lam which had originated in that House, by
which veiT large sums of nionef had beea ex-
peaded to Itltte purpose, which he would explaJD
whea they were in a Commiitee of the Whole
OD the report from the Committee of Ways ana
Means.
But geotlemen say, "Hare we not aa much
power as the House of Commons iu Great Bri'
tain 1" He answered, their powers were limited ;
the Constitution was their guide. He thought
gentlemen proceeded as if they were about to
form a Constitution rather than discuss a Consli-
tational question. Some gentlemen had said.
Treaties of Amity ought to be rested in the
President and Senate; others, that Treaties for
a cessation of arms ought to be rested in the
Executive; thus they wander, well knowing (be
ground they had taken was not tenable. It
brought to his mind an obserrelion made by an
Indian chief, in a Treaty at Albany, since the
late war, who, tStei thanking the Great Spirit for
directing them back in the good old path, which
made them happy, lamented^ that ever since they
had wandered from thai path, they had been mis'
erable. So it would be witn them if they \e{t
the Constitution ; they would wander from the
right path, and «nTolre themselve!. in difficutties.
Appropriations for the army and nary in Great
Britain must be made annually, witluiut which
they must be discharged. By our ConstiiuiioD,
we may appropriate for two years for the Army,
and no mention as to what lime for the Navy ; so
that ne can make appropriations for a longer time
for our Army and Nary than in Greet Britain.
The gentleman [Mr. GilbsJ further objerred,
that the opinions entertained in that House three
years ago, were not to influence them now; it was
necessary, however, in Mr. W.'s opinion, that
wheoerer nations changed their customs, some
notice oueht to be given of the chan^, that it
might be Known by nations rrith whom they may
hare any itansactions. To prove this, he quoted
JUarten't Law of Nations. The Treaty bad been
laid befbrB them, that they might appropriate
money or carrying it into effect. On the first of
Jtine, the British were to give up the Western
posts; if money was not appropriated, would
the* not be deceived 1
Before he proceeded to remark on what had
fallen from his colleague [Mr. Livingstom] he
would mention, that they bad, for some years, in
Seneral concurred in their political opinions, and
uring the present session they had varied very
little i^frthe Question before the House, however,
they sMd differ rery considerably. Soon si(tet
die CoMlitution was framed, a Conrention was
held in the Sute of New York, in which be had
the honor to be a member, He wu fully of opin-
ion ai that time, as he whs now, that the Treaty
power was a oangerous power, and, in conse-
quence, gare his dissent to it.
He would proceed to remark on what had fallen
frAn bis colleague. He had said, bow could they
determine whether the Treaty was Constitutional
Or not, or whether an impeachment was necessary
without iofoTiiiBtion t The- papery Iu he had
said before,were open for ten weeks, during which
time gentlemen might hare had access to them.
But that gentleman said, ibey had denied him of
late, and so they had been to him.; but be un-
derstood they were at the Secretary of Srate's
office, and might be seen there. He mentioned a
case of a Treaty with a- foreign country, in which
their Minister might have received presents; but
declared, that he did not believe tnere was any
corruption in the negotiation of the Treaty in
q^uestion. It appeared to him, therefore, incon-
sistent still to talk of impeachment.
Suppose,'for instance, nis colleague was Attor-
ney General of the State of New York, and a
man were to charse another with being guilty of
burglary, whose character, reputation, and stand-
ing in life were irreproachable, would he subpoe-
na him to meet the ebargel No, he would not.
And still the case is exactly similar to the present.
If. said Mr. W., his colleague or any member of
the House wanted the papers, they nad only to
rise in their place and declare there were grounds
of suspicion for an impeachment ; would any
member refuse the calll But he presumed no
snch thing was thought of. Why, then, expend
so much precious time unnecessarily 1 The gen-
tleman believed that the Minister had deviated
from the instructions originally given him ; but
that he received new Instructions. Whaterer in-
structigns were piren to him, it appears, by the
Treaty being ratified, that he executed them to
the satisfaction of his employer. '
It may be, said Mr. W., that this House may
determine that it has a check on the Treaty-mak-
ing power ; hut the next Congress may say there
is no such thing. Whether there is or there is
not thischeck, it is necessary for the stability of the
" bare it determined ; and he would
land in a wish that it might be settled. But he
would hare the amendment constitutionally made;
fbr^ if we ourselves do not understand the Consti-
tution, it is not likely that our constituents at
large should understand it. It I am wrong now
in the true meaning of the Constitution, I have
been wrong since its adoption. The people are
the soveretgn ; their will shall be my guide, from
which I will not, knowingly, depart. 1 live tn the
midst of a body of plain but intelligent freemen,
whose employment is the cultivation of the earth,
and who prize nothing beyond the freedom they
enjoy. They are jealous of their liberties, but
they are obedient to, and willing to respect and-,
support the laws of the land. How will they
know the laws^ if we do not unffersiand the Con-
stitution after it has been in operation for nearly
eight years? • •
Gentlemen observed, that if the Treaty-mak-
ing power was meant to be vested solely in the
Pbebident and SenaW, it would bare been said
so explicitly ; but, he thought, if the Constitution
had intended that House lo hare interfered in
Treaties, that would have been expressed, as a
few words would have done it. ■
His colleague asserted, that that Hoa<!e had the
power of carrying into effecf or not.auy Treaty ;
;db7G00glc
fflSTOBY OF CONGRESS.
H. opR.]
T'reaiy with Great Britain.
£11aboii, 1796.
but he thought the House obliged to carry into
effect alt Treaties coustitHiionalfy and completely
made. To suppoil his doctriae, Mr. Livingston
bad refened to the practice of Great Britain, and
singled out the Treaty of Utrecht.
hi Borland, Eaid Mi. W., the Trenty-makiag
power is m the King. A Treaty, when made by
him, pledgea the public faith aod binds the aation j
but the Courts oi Law and the officers of the rc-
Tenue do not consider Treaties as the supreine
law (when they change the regulations of com-
merce or interfere with previous a^ts of Parlia-
ment) until Pailiamenl has passed acts conform-
ahly to such stipulations of a Treaty. The pro-
Sriely, and, indeed, necessity of this rule, lesults
om the monarchical form of that Goveinmeat,
the power of the King alooe to repeal existing
laws being a just ground of apprehension. From
a like apprehension, a Treaty, tbougb negotiated
and made id all its parts by the Prebident, must
be submitted^ to the Senate for tbeii ratiGcation.
The Senate is a popular assembly, and represent-
ing the Stales. The concurrence of two-thirds
is equal on eveiy principle of combining the pub'
lie will with the acts of the constituted authori-
ties to the sanction of Parliament.
In England, Treaties of Peace, of Alliance, and,
perhaps, many others, are perfect and binding
without co-opeiatioD of Parliament. The opinion
of some is understood to be, and Blackstone seems
to be of the Dumber, that erery Treaty, when
made by the King, is obligatory without the coo'
currence of Pathameni. The practice, howfever,
is to lay Treaties before Parliament when laws
are necessary tp carry them into effect, and for
Parliament to pass such laws. And, although a
very broad discretion has been claimed in Parlia-
ment to pass or reject such laws, the uniform prac-
tice, except in one instance, has been to pass them.
The faith of the nation is considered as pledged.
The case where laws to carry the Treaty into ef-
fect have been refused, is the Treaty of Utrecht.
in 1714. The credit of the example is much
abated by tlie circumstances of the times when it
happened. The Duke of Marlborough had been
displaced, but his friends were powerful ; a Tory
Minister was ia power and much hated ; Queen
Anoe was decaying, and died (hat year, and the
-) the Crown was doubtful. Parti
were remiy to draw the sword against each otbei,
lad the most disiingu^bed Ministers were soon
proscribed and fled the country. A * "
ample in such timesj and
of such events, ^weighs little against the course
oi ptaclice in numberless cases, all issuing an-
other wa]^ It proves that the practice of Parlia-
ment eorresponds with our doctrine. If, however,
tbeii maxims are different, so is their Constitution
in this particular. The act of the Kiug should
be compared with the act of the President alonej
and the ratification of the Senate should be, and,
by our Constitutionj it must be, considered equal to
the svction of Parliament. The doctrine ascribed
by Mr. Oai-uatin to the Parliament affords a rea-
son for their callingrfor papers; because, he says,
they are to act upon them. Yet such call is sel-
dom made, and would probably he refused, if
made without manifest occasion for the papers.
OurConstitulioi^hassetJed a different doctrine;
and, as the papers cannot be Deeded, they cannot
properly be as\ed for.
He doubted not that the Treaty lately concluded
with , Great Britain had ere now been laid before
Parliament, and a sum of money granted for re-
compensing spoliations committed in this coun-
try. Should they then attempt to refuse appro-
priations for carrying the Treaty into effect, on
their part, where would be their uational honor,
their. uatiooal faith? Suppose the Treaty were a
bad bargain, that would not aiithorue them to
break it. No ; if a bad bargain be made to-day,
make a better to-morrow. Neither should ihey
determine the thing before it came before them.
Probably they may not find it so bad ^s it had
been represented ; for thoi^h it might, in some
respect}, nacrow our commercial inteicourse, yet,
perhaps, by so doing, the agricultural interest
would be proportion ably beuented. He was coD-
vinced that the agricultural interest was the true
interest of this cduntty. If by the Treaty we
find that it tends to the welfare of the farmer, we
mav conclude our negotiator had,the true interest
of his country in view ; and it was his (Mr. W.'s)
opinion that a man taken from the plough and
put on board & vessel was a man lost to the true
interest of this country. This country is uot like
that of Great Britain j they are confined to small
islands, we have a country ezteapive and fertile;
and it is our dDty to encourage settlers, increase
our numbers, and, by so doing, we shall sood be
in a situation to bid defiance to all the world. He
was williog to encouiage commerce to its full
proportion, but not so as to injure the agricultural
mteresi, The third article in the Treaty had
been quoMd by a gentleman from Maryland [Mr.
S. SuiTif|as having a tendeacy to operate un-
equally in our impost duties ; Mr. W. observed,
he did not think that was very excepttoDable, so
far as It had been explained. He did not think
the third clause of the Treaty a bad one : it otily
went tf this, that when Great Biitain carried
goods through our country they were to pay the
same duly as American citizens. And would not
this be a greater advantage to the United Stales
than if they went up the rivers St. Lawrence or
Mississippi, and paid no duty 7 All the duty re-
ceived of them would be so much gain to the
country.
His colleague [Mr. Livinqhton] went od too
contemporaneous a construction, and said nat the
House were better able to judge of th'e fneanios
of the Constitution than the Conventions which
were held to consider upon its adoptioa. He did
not think so. Hesaidghehad always been called an
anti-Federal is 1, and was so considered to this day.
He would willingly join to obtain an amendment
to the Constitution with respect to the Treaty
power; but, because he did not believe the Cao-
stitution contemplated an inlerference in that
House in respect to Treaties, he could not agree
to the projiosed doctrine. '^
itzo^o.GooQle
HISTORY OF CONGBISS.
MiHCH, 1796.]
Treaty irf(A Grtat Britain.
Mr. W. said, it wa? oat oecessary for hi
into ihe anramcnt which Induced the Con
to fi» the Treaty-making power: ii need only be
menlioned that they knew how and where that
ptwer was exercised in Great Btifain; andj in
order to avert the difficulties which had arisen
there, the Convention vested the fwwer with the
Prebidbnt and Senate ; and, to guard against un-
due influence, directed that two-thirds of the Se-
nators present should concur with the President.
The .Convention had many difficulties to sur-
mount ia this article; they had to do away the
equal power the small Slates shared, under the
Confederation, with the large Stales. But. to do
away the discordant interests of the different
States and to give the small States satisfaction,
agreed that all the States should be equally repre-
sented in the Senate. In the Treaty-mating
power each State hath an equal Voice. To ex-
tend it further, for another check, without the
consent of the smaller States, would be doing-
away, in part, that powei which the small States
had retained.
He read the observations of one of the Judges
of the Sopreme Court of the State of New
Yorkj when debating on the merits of the Con-
stitution in Ihe Convention held In that Slate, to
prove that Treaties were considered to be para-
mount to any law. Among the several psssages
ftom the debates of the Convention of New
York, Mr. W. read the following proposed amend-
ment by Mr. Lansing, who was a member of the
Convention that formed the ConFtitutJon of the
United Slates, whose abilities and candor were
not doubted by any who knew him :
" Saoiped, aa tb* opipjon of tbia camoiittee, that no
TisatT oB^t to oper^ ■> ■■ to altar Ihe CaniMilutMD
of an; State ; aor nuglit any Uommercial Ti«>^ to
ofienle lo Hkloabiofato any Inrof tlu Unijad StaMa."
He bejjeved that the amendments proved in
Ihe Virginia Convention, arose from their consi-
dering that there was no cheek in that House:
the conCrary supposition, he said, woatd be like
rowing a b<wt one way and looking linother.
His colleagues read extracts from the ^Fournsls
to prove that the pREBioENr had laid before that
House instructions which he had given hi* Min-
isters employed on the Treaty bnsiness. He be-
lieve], when much monev was Hkely to be want-
ed, it was prudent and right to do so. It was as
if he asked that House whether it would a^ee to
■ proposed negotiation or declare war — as if he
had said, " I cannot unlock yonr Treasury ; which
way would you have me act V It was inconsist-
ent to say that ha had diminished his power by
i"king advice. Books, he said, mteht be produced
without nunmcr ; but nolhingcouTd be brought to
justify the breaking of a contract constitnt tonally
made. It has become the law of the land. The
House has, indeed, the physical power to refuse to
appropriate to carry such a Treaty into effect ,
bat the Consiitntion meant that what was done
by one branch of the Legislature should be eon-
Armed* by the others, except the act wms uncon-
stitntionat. If a Treaty waa Coastitational, they
4rtl Cos.— 28
ere therefore impliedly bound to carry it into
His colleague denied that any danger lay in the
popular part of the Govisrnment ; he thought dif-
ferently. To say there was more dauber to be
apprehended from the Executive than the Lcgis-
lalive branch of Government was unsound doc-
trine. He should enlarge on this subject when
the Treaty came before tlie House, and he trusted
he should clearly show that the greatest danger
-if abuse Uy in that House. Have there not bills
iriginated in this House which have cansed the
expenditure of ranch money to very little purpose ?
is there not more responsibility in one man than in
large bodies'! and was not the member from Vir-
'aia [Mr. MiDisosJ of this opinion, as I have he-
re stated ?
Where have (said Mr. W.) the acts originated
that have caused so much money to he expended,
?renson of which the report of Ihe Committee
Ways and Means states the necessity of bor-
owing such large sums to meet the necessary de-
mands—the laying additional taxes and duties?
Did these acts originate with the Executive 1 No.
Where then 1 In this House. All money bills
must originate in this Hon.'ie, being so directed by
the Constttuiion.
Though his colleague repre^nted Qreat Britain
as being iu chains, yet he was drawing precedents
from their Gtovemmenl. At first, he tliought he
had fallen in love with the Government, but he
afterwards found his mistake. In that Govern-
ment, raid Mr. W., one precedent creates another,
and they soon accumulate and form laws ; hut his
friend was drawing precedents from that nation
to support the checEs, which Mr. Gileb said, had
been for six years completely routed from the
Government of the United States. He feared, if
the gentlemen were permitted to take their course,
we should soon have a curious sort of Const»-
tijtion.
But, to eobclude, the rnin Or prosperity of the
nation depended much on the present Govern-
ment. He said, if the people flourish and are-
happy ; if they are industrious and at peace, they
will not complain of their Government. If this
be the ease, it will scarcely be admitted that the
checks in the Government have been completely
routed for these six years ; if they were, however,
be thought the nation could not be better thtti
happy.
Mr. hfiLLEDdc observed, that as the hour of ad-
journment was drawing near, he would not de-
tain the Committee tons- The length of the de-
bates, on both sides of tlie qnestion, had left him
little room for observation ; but as a Conatitution-
el question had been involved iti the resolution
before the Committee, and as all Constitutional
questions were important in their nature, he could
not think of giving a silent vote. He perfectly
agreed with the gentleman who had spoken last,
from the Slate of Connecticut, that we ought not
to put onr fool from off the Constitution, and on
that, he said, he woujd stand. Nor did he think
it necessary to resort to this or that -Government
to know their usages, or to know what was said
Dgtzo^o, Google
651
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
6i>3
H.orR.}
TVeofy loiih Great Britain.
[Makb, 1796.
io this 01 that Slate, or what vras written by this
or Ibst man— but, according to the coramon and
most obvious meaning of words contained in the
Constitution, to draw our coaclusion. That part
of the Constitution which had been often men-
read — that alTTreaties made by the authority of
the United Slates should be the supreme iaw of
the land. He asked, what was the authority of
the United Slates] Powers derived from the
Constitution. What are these powers 7 Legisls-
tire, Executive, and Judicial. The better- to un-
derstand these, let us ace, said he, in what order
they present taemselres to us. In the Constitu-
tion we find that in tbe very first section all Le-
gislative powers herein granted shall be vested in
a Coit^ress of the United States, which shall oon-
.sist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Tbisj then, is the LesuilattTe power, tbe statute-
making power, the ordaining power, the eiMcting
power, or any other Dame by which it may be
called. Now, then, said he, let us see the extent
ofthis power. Ju the 6lh section, Congress shall
lave power to make aU laws. It would be neces-
sary, ae said, to aileud to the monosyllable ait. If
die President and two-thirds of the Senate have
aright to make a law, do Congress makeall laws?
Certainly not.
The Constitution being his guide, he felt sup-
ported by a just confidence in bis opinion ; but he
would not say but he might be mistaken, and was
tinwilling to cu'amit himself. It was his opinion,
then, that Treaties ought to be bottomed on a law
before they can have any binding influence. To
elucidate this, be said, it would be neccLsary to
read the whole of the clause : Congress shall bare
power to make all laws which shall be necessary
and proper for carrying into execution the fore-
going powers, (which are, he saidi seventeen in
number, particularly expressed,) and all other
powers vested by this Constitution in the Oovei^-
ment of the United States, or in any department
or officer thereof. Here, aaaio, he observed, we
find the monosyllable aU. What does it import?
Every one— the whole. Of what ? Of all other
powers vested by this Constitution in the Govern-
ment of tbe United States, oi in any department
or officer thereof. What is the Pbesident and
S'o-thiids of the Senate 1 The Treaty-making
parlmerd. Therefore, being a ciepartm^nt, what-
ever powers are vested in them by the Constitu-
tion caoDOt be carried into execution but by a law,
otherwise the clause in the Constitution means
nothing. What is a law ? The will of the peo-
Ele made known. Where is that will to be fout\d ?
a the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States in Congress assembled. Are the
Prehident aod two-lhirds of the Senate Con-
gress 1 No ; therefore they cannot make a law.
The gentleman from New Hampshire asked,
what do thePI(EB[nE^Taod two-thirds of the Sm
ate operate upon 1 I answer, with him, on Trea-
ties ; but io tneir nature they are only a depart-
ment, and whatever a department doeH cannot, he
repeated, be carried into execution but by a law.
The Treaty-making power is an intermediate de-
partment, and no instrnmeni they can make can
operate tne repeal of a law, the same force being
required for a repeal as to enact. The gen-
tleman from Rhode Island observed, thai tf the
House of Representatives was to have a control
Treaties, small States might be injured in
' commerce, because the representation oa thai
floor was unequal. Mr. M. oteerved, that though
his State was not a small State, yet it was sraatl
in representation, but he apsrehended no danseT.
Under tbe Articles of Confederation, it wasa Go-
vernment of States i nnder the present Govern-
ment, it was a Government of departmenls, of
checks. He said, the local interest of one State
was so blended with another that the security of
the one became the security of the whole, found-
ed on a proportion of sovereignty surrendered by
ich to the whole, and each drawing from the
hole its pro^rtion of security. Let us then,
said he, examme the compact made by each with
the whole on the score of commerce. Here he
read part of the 9th section : No lax or duty shall
be laid on articles exported from any State ; no
preference shall be given by any regulation of
commerce or revenue to the ports of one State
over those of aoother. He said, the negotiaton
of the Treaty, in ihe ISth article, had laid a pro-
hibition on loe exportation of cotton to any part
of the world, except in British vessels. Cotton,
the growth of our own soil, an importantstaplein
the two Southern States, particularly in the one
he bad the honor to represent. But it is said, vA
BO we find it, that this article is suspended, and
open to further negotiation. He called on the
Committee for any member to deny that the prin-
ciple did not still exist. He said, tken. if a prin-
ciple still exists in that Treaty which militates
with a fundamental principle, a principle in the
Constitution, he lef^ to the Committee, which
ought lo yield. Was this principle to prevail, it
would destroy a vitalpart of the Constitution, and
injure the agriculture of the States. He called
on that gentleman lo beware of' admitting such a
principle; for, if once allowed, it would extend not
only to the cotton of Georgia, but to the flaxseed
of Rhode I.iland, tbe fiour of Pennsylvania, and
the tobacco of Virginia.
Mr. M. concluded by observing, that, from all he
had said, it was to be understood that the powen
of legislation were only with Congress, and thai
the House of Representatives could not, on ibe
subject before them, legislate without informa-
tion. Before he sal down, he could not help ob-
serving that it was somewhat strange that tbe
first Treaty negotiated under the present Govero*
ment with an European nation, should produce
such a contrariety of sentiment on Aemeaningof
the Constitution, and that be was reminded by
this circumstance of the pertinent words of acef-
" The works of human invention are progressive,
and are not completed but hy degrees. At the
last im;)rovemenl we are apt to sit down satisfied,
and vainly imagine that we have accomtJishea
the end we have proposed, but lime soon unravds
the fine-spun system, and we find ounelves ob-
.dbyGoogle
65d
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
HucB, 1790.]
Tnaty vith Cheat Britain.
li^ to iDtcTweaTB fresb matenab to repair tho
duordered texture."
Mr. KiTcKEbL obeerved, that he could not think
t/giring a sileDt vote on so important a question
M this had become; bnt he should not go into an
atgumeotative discussion onihe subject, nor should
he inquire i;ito the opiniiHis held iudifierent Con-
realions at the adoption of the Constitution, tn
refer to Great Britain for precedenia. He would
look at the CatkstitBlion alone, and tee what were
ttie powers eiven to the different bTanchefl of Qo-
Terninenl. When it says thai such and such pow-
m are vested in Congress, and such in the Ez-
ecutire, he would abide by that decision. Where
that instrument says Congress shall lay and col-
lect taxes, regulate commerce with foreign na-
tions, euanlish an uniform rule of natural izaiion,
provide for the oommon defence, &c., and that the
aiecutire afaatl hare power, by and with the oon-
MDt of two-thirds of the Senate, to make Trea-
ties, appoint Ambassadors, dec., (he directions of
the CoDstitution must be abided by.
He would inquire what Treaties could be en-
tered into by the PaBaiDBNT and Senate, without
iafringiag upon (he powers placed in Cartgressl
He beliered Tteatiei of Peace, of Amity, and
Ptiendsbip, could be made by them. If thiscould
be done, he said, IhoM were the powers meant to
be Tested in the PMEHiDEnT and Senate, and not
that Treaties should embrace objects which are
expressly appointed to the management of Con-
gress. In this view, the Prebidbht and Senate
would nut have, the power to iufluunce thai House
in their proceedings; but commercial or other
Treaties which embraced objects the regulation
of which was placed in Congress, must be laid be-
fore (hemfor the purpose of theirpassing or refusing
la pan laws to carry them iota effect, in the iiame
way as Treaties with the Indians had been laid
before tbem.
He did not think ifae questiou of itsrlf before
the House important, as it related to the produc-
tion of papers, but only as it inrolved in il an im-
portant principle, vix; that when Treaties were
made by the pBcaiDBirr and Senate, and present-
ed to that House, they had nothing to do but ap-
(RopriaLe money to carry ibera into effect. It was
true geatlemen had seemed willing to allow them
what they called discretion ; but.il was such a soil
of discretion as a criminal wight be said Id tiave,
who was told he might choose this or that posture
of suffering, but that he must die.
It had been said that ibe PaBBiOEHTajid Senate
were equally the Repr«sentati»M of the people
with that House. He would inquire how they
became eol The Conslitutioo has appointed that
RepresentatLVCs shall be chosen by the people in
proportion to their piipuiation. Were the Senate
so chosen? No. The people have no Tole at all
in choosioK them. Are theyamenable to the peo-
ple for their conduct 7 No. Tberefore, in no shape
can they be called the Repmsenlatives of the peo-
ple. The Senate, he said, represented the sereral
State Li^^i.slatures, and that House tbe people al
large. He wa^ sure, therefjie, that every thing in
which tbe iDterestBofthepeopleal large ware eoa-
A great deed, he observed, had been said upon
this subject, some things well taid, and a good ieti
that might have been as well unsaid. fur any good
effect they wereJikely to prodtice. He was sorry
to hear what had fallen from a gentleman from
Rhode Island with respect to the interests of small
'Slates. He said he was himself a Represeutaiive
small State, and. he believed his cons Ikuenta
: well satisfied with the present distribution
of power, Bad did not wish that of the PBEBinsHT
or Senate to-be increased.
He did not think what fell from his colleague,
when he said gentlemen wished, to amose the peo-
ple with tbe cry of liberty, liberty, and spoke of
the groans of three or lour handred thoonud
slaves assailing his years, was meant as a reflec-
tion upon any gentleman in that House who might
hold slaves ; bat an earnest wish that the people at
large might never bend tbeir liecks to slavery.
He did not think the subjeot of the Treaty al
all be£ve the House. He should give his vole for
the papers ; not so moob on aoeotmt of their being
of great importaaee in themselres, but in order to
repel tbe doctrine, that they had no right to dis-
cuss the mttita of any Treaty whatever.
Mabob 3S.-~In Committee of the Whole on
Mr. LiviHoaTOM's rmolUlioB ;
Mr. CoiT said, the attention of the Committea
wasdoubtkss fatigued with the subjeot before it;
to those gentlemen who had already delirand
their aeuiiments upon the Docasioa, he need not
make any apoliwy ; and to those who had not
done so, he wutild assure them that be would not
occupy muchof their time.
Uost of the gentlemen who had gone before lum.
he ohGerved, had r««retied that the debate had
taken the turn il had, but he was happy it had
taken such a turn. Il appeared to him, that tbe
motion was intended as a atepping-stone to a vio-
lation of the rights of the other branches of tbe
QoverDmeatby tliat House. It became bim when
he made a declaration of this kind to say, that he
did not impale other than pure motives to any
member of that House. Ha believ^ the general
wish yn» to discover the Crue sense of the Consti-
tulion; yet it was not extraordinary if in doiiu;
this men were actuated by the sentiments which
they had long been in the habii of oohsidering as
weU-founded, to lean to that construction which
most favored their favorite opinions. He had no
idea that any gentleman meaai to make inroads
on the Constitution ; but it was his opinitm thai
if tbe doctrines now insisted upon prBv%iled, they
WDuhl have that effect.
He was happy, for two reasons, that tbe tine
ground of the present motion was made to appear.
Because, if the resolution had passed without dia-
suasion, the motives which led to it would not
have heen seen ; and because be wished tbe ques-
tion of what were the powers of that House, with
respect to Treaty-making, to be discussed, inde-
pendent of the Treaty, which wn* likdy soon to
come before Chesi. They atood now on the pul«
ground of an abatraat Coostitutional qoMiion.
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP C0NGHE8S.
H.orR.}
Treaty wtfA Great Britam:
[Hjacb, 179&
Some obKurity;, Mr. C. iliouglit, had a:
from not distiDKUuhing the applicHtion of argu-
ments lo the dineient principles on which the re-
»lutioD bad been advocated, which he should en-
deavor to Rvoid. He oonaidered the Treaty-mak-
ing power as absolutely vested ia the Pbesidbnt
and Senate ; stiU, that wheo Legislative sets '
seeessary !o cany a Treaty into eSect, the Legis-
lature were not -nHthouc diserettoii in the pasiiag-
of ihCTD ; if the LeffisUlure bad a hand in oiaking
Treaties, there could be no question of the proprie-
Sof calliog for papers ; he shouid theit, in the first
ace, examine the propriety of calling for p«_
taking for trranled that the Legislature had no
hand id making Treaties.
If they were to consider the power by which a
Treaty was made, there would be found two na-
tions concerned, whone consent would be alto ns-
eessary to repeal it. But were there no other wayi
9t eancellins a Treaty 1 There were certainly
wayk of breaiing a'^reaty. There were circum-
stances in which the breaking of a Treaty would
be justifiable. For inEtance,if,t>^ore a. Treaty was
carried into effect, there was such ■ change of ( '
cumBtaneesasto make it necessary todeclarew
could they not discuss the subject, whethei
were more advisable to carry into effect the Trea-
ty, and keep at peace, or brevk il and declare \
Ua questiob of this kind came up, there could be
BO impropriety in looking into it { not with an idea
of having any concern m makiog the Treaty, but
because such alterations bad taken place in the
stale of affain, as to make il necessary to discuss
tbe propriety of going to war.
There was another point of view in which that
House had a check on Treaties. Granting that
Treaty is completely made, the subject of apprc
C' ition must come neforc tbem. Oeotlemen nai
n nnderilood to say, that no discretion couli
be ncercised in appropriating the oeeessary mc
ney fbr earryioga Treaty into effect. But hewn
4^ a different opinion; he believed, that though
' they had nothing to do with the making of Trea-
ties, yet when they were called upon to appropri-
ate, tney munt exercise their discretion. It was
true, that in general when Treaties were made, il
would be the duty of that House to carry them m
to efeot, in the same way as they found it their
duty to carry into effect existing laws; but heseid,
diet* were justifiable grounds m refusing to a[^r<y^
— '--- Botiey to carry into effect both laws and
Briate BOD
Treaties.
Mr. C. referred lo the case of appropriations for
the army. Suppose, said he, an army was raised
for fonr years ; at the end of two years a fresh
appronriacion is requisite lo support it ; but the
Legislalure has a discretion in doing lhi<i, or where
was the use of the Constitutional regulation of
eonfining appropriations to two years f He con-
sidered, that there was someanalogy between such
eases of appropriation, and those requisite for
Treaties. When a Treaty is made, the nation is
bound by it. and its organ has an obligation upon
it to carry il into effect. It might, in general, be
said that there was an absolute obligation ; but
still ihei« were parttenlar casas in which that
obligation did not hold. It appeared to him thai
a Treaty might possibly be of so ruinous a nature,
as to justify the refuiane to carry il Into effect.
Nay ,'he would say, that if half the lies and calum-
nies which had been spread throughout ihe Union
wilb respect to the iate Treaty with Great Britain
were true ; if the ue^tiator had 'been bribed ; if he
had given up the rights of his country; if their
liberty and ladependeoce had'been sacrificed; if
the PaMinsHT and Senate had been itribed by
British gold ; if he had any idea of that kind, he
would not agree to carry the Treaty into effect;
nor should he eonceive the national faith bound
by such an instrument ; no matter what grounds
were taken lo justify the refusal, whether Consti-
tutioDftl or Revolutionary.
If these principles were just, he said, il would be
allowed that that House had a discretionary pow-
er with respect lo appropriating to carry a Treaty
into effect, though it had nothing to do with mak-
ing it. No cau!<e, he said, had been shown for call-
ing for papers. Why then, call for them 1 Gentle-
men taUred about impeachment ? They might im-
Maeh without papers. But, did they want to bring
forward an impeachment ? No aucn thing ; it was
only toco^ertne real drift of the motion that this
Did any gentleman think there was sufficient
evil in the kte Treaty with Great Britain to au-
thorize them in refusing to carry it into effect 1 1t
their deliberations. But they must also consider,
that there was a discretion lo be used by the Exe-
cutive in giving up papers in his hands. When
there are papers in his hands which that House
had real occasion for, it was important that ibey
should be brought forward ; but, he said, as long as
a proper con^dence subsisted between the two
branches of the Oovernment, if that House asked
for papers which the P re* ioent thought it impro-
per to send them, he would decline doing it. But
It is not contended, that the papers which are the
object of the present resolution will be of any real
use to the House. Thegentleman who brought for-
ward the motion had read them through, and tbe
most that he said on the subject was, thai the ne-
^tiator bad not complied with some of the first
instructions which were given to him. Another
ground of calling for the papers, which was to htm
a pleasing giouod, was that of publicity ; for he
fully agreed with the gentleman from Qeorgia,
that tbe more public CloTernmental proceedings
could with propriety be made, the heller; but that
House had not the rif^t to direct the PaBSinENT
on that head, they ooght rather to leave it to him
to publish the papers, or not, as he pleased ; fur, if
they considered the PaEaiDENT as attentive at
all times to the duties of his office, it would be ar-
rogancy in that House to attempt to influence him
in that particnlar.
But the main point in dispute was the force and
effect of the Treaty -makioff power. What were
the powers and privileges of tbe House on the sub-
ject? In pursuing this inquiry, he was pleased
with the remark of the gentleman from Qeorgia.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
Habcb, 1796.]
TVooly mtk O/tat Britain.
[H.ofB.
that in examining ints the meamn^ of the wotd*
and plinses. they must take the meaning thai was
generally giTen to them, and if tiiey could find
out the true import of the phraie make Treaties,
it would remoTc ail danbts on the subject He
hoped, for thia purpOK, that gentleman would hare
examined the proceedings of his own country ; but,
instead of doio^ this, they find him referring to
tliepractices ci^Qreat Briuttn.
The PRESIOENT and Senate, Mr. C. observed,
were expressly authorized to make Treaties. Tq
what sbonld they compare Trea.ties'? Might they
not say, that tbey were betwixt nations i^at bar-
Sins were, betwixt individuaU'? And. after he
d employed an aseiit to maJte a contract, with
full discretion, and he had in pursuance of his au-
thoriiy made it, was it not binding7 Though in
puUic as well as in private coatipcts he acknow-
ledged there might be circumstances which would
justify a non-compliance with the terms of the
Dargain; yet, in. case all the circumstances had
been fair, the contract must be complied with.
It appeared to him not unimportant to consider,
whether, when Treaties were made, they were not
the laws of the land. A power to make carr|ied,
in his mind, a power to complete. But if this were
doubtful, where should theylook for information?
Be expected the gentlecnan from Georeia— know-
ing him to be weQ acquainted with the proceed-
ings of Government for a long time^-would have
referred them to the old Confede ration. It would
certainly have been more natural to have referred
them to the old Congress than to the Parliament
of Great Britain. ' Ifthey looked into the powers
of the old Congress, they would find that they had
the power to enter into Treaties and Alliances,
which he apprehended to be the same power as
that placed in the Prebidbnt and Senate in the
present Government; and it was natural to con-
clude that B Treaty made by the present power
was equally binding with those made under the old
Government ; for it will be recollected that the
general power was delegated to the General Go-
vemrneut ; and if they had the same powers, he
could not see that there should be any difference
in the exercise of them. If it had been intended
otherwise, the Convenlion, at the forming of the
Constitution, would have added a proviso that no
Treaty should be made by the PnEsincNT and
Senate which included commercial regulations.
It appeared to him that a subject of mch recent
date as their Constitution couldnot receive much
elucidation from the opinions held concerning it
b the Conventions, at or about the lime of pass-
ing it. He confessed he foiuld little aid to assist
his mind to form a, judgment on the matter from
an? other source than the Constitution itself;
indeed, he thought the light was there so clear
that nothing more was wanted. There were
four members, he said, in iliat House, who were
members of the Convention who formed the Con-
tiitutioo. The aentimenta of two of those gen-
tlemen be was not acqoainted with; but two of
them had spoken on this sut^eot. If those gentle-
men had come forward anddeclared that such ft
power aa the Treaty poww '
>WBsnoe intended to be placed in the hands of the
PkbsiiIent and Senate, but that that House wai
meantto havecertain po wen with respect to Trea-
ties, he would not say but that such a declaratioB
would have shook his faith on the subject; for,
though he should still have been guided by the in-
strument itself, yet authority so respectable woold
have had its weight on his mmd. Bnt what did the
gentlemen, who have dciivered their sentiments
sayl The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. BalD'
Win] mentioned the necessity of inquiring into th*
true meaning of tbe phrase, "tnake Treaties;"
and, instead of telling them what had been the
practice in the old Government, he went over the
water to Great Britain. What did they get from
the gentleman from Viiginia, [Mr. Ma.dibon?]
He produced Qve sets of doubts and one problem '
upon the construction of the Constitutioo. ThU
had the same effect on his mind as if they had de-
ebied that the meaning of the Constitution waa
well understood, in the Csnvention which fornied
it, to rest the Treaty-making power completely
in the Pre8ideiit and Senate. It was certainly
matter of great importance Where the different
powers of Government were placed, and caused
considerable debates in the Conventiou. SotiM
thought the Treaty-making power should be placed
in the Legislature, but that was greaUy objected
to ; it was urged by others that he powers should
be in the Prbbioeht and a majority of the Senate;
ts again proposed that two-thirds of the whols
her of tbe Senators sbonld consent to a Trea-
ty— but finally passed as it is fonnd in the Conati-
tion. He was far from accusing tha»e gentlemeH
ith impropriety of conduct on the occasion. If
they think it would be better for the interests of
the people that that House shoaid have a share in
the making of certain Treaties, and believe the
Constitution will bear that construction, it was Dot
for him to impeach the purity of their motires or
propriety of their conduct; but it would require
ttrong arguments to convince his mind that the
Constitution placed any such power in that House^
contrary to the unanimous nnderstandin|; of the
members of tbe Convention who formed it.
The arguments which bad been urged for placing
>rtain powers in that House with r«»pect to Tf«»-
es were drawn from the practice (^ Great Britain,
_fld from the danger of the Treaty power bei^
vetted wholly in the Phesidbnt and Senate. He
did not think that the Government of Great Britftin
had been introduced for any other purpose tkaa
iUustratioB, thoujrh <Aher nee had been made of it
out of doors. With respect to the principles o^
that Government, let them inquire into its sove-
reign power ; for it was a just positios that TtcK-
ties mast be made by the sovereign power of ft
nation. Where should they find that power in
Great Britain 1 Tbe Kins and Parliament wete
allowed to be omnipotent: Parliament have altered
the continuation of their existence from three U
■even years. Where must they look in the Unit-
ed Sutes for the sovereign power? They must
¥) to tbe peojda at large -, for in them it lay aloiM.
heir ConsUtntion bmitied the powers of entr
brenchof OoveruaeDt, and it was theiefbre in-
;dbvG00gle
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
U. ofR.]
TVeoty vUk Ortat Britain.
[Mai
1, 1796.
iHYipeT to apply foreiga ideas to theii CoustilatiQii.
But if a Tteatf wai made by the ogeoU of a sove-
reign power, authorized tor the purpone, the end
WBsanswered; inlbe United States, the toTcreifD
power caD act only by iti HgeDta.
The Legislature of GreatSritaiD, be said, it was
true, coDsisted of three branchex, and that w«s
almosi the only feature in that GoTernmeul resem-
bling that of the United States. Id Great Btitaiu,
their Executive isao hereditary Monarch, whereas
the PaEBiDEnT of thb United States is elected
every four years. Their House of Lords consisted
of bishops and an hereditary nobility — the bishops
appointed by the Crown, and the nobility were
increased at the King's pleasure ; whilst the Senate
of (be United States is elected every six years.
Qentlemen say the Senators are not elected by
the people, bat they are chosen by the Legislatures
of tbe different States, who are elected by the peo-
^e. Tlie House of Commons in Britam, which
u the only representation of the people iheir Go-
vernment contains, is elected by a very small part
of the people ; and the Crown bas such an influ-
ence in it as to be able to cany most quesiioai at
its pleasure. How could it then bear a comparison
vith that House, who were chosen by the whole
people every two years 1 The absurdity might be
Admitted, in that Gavernment, that the King had
the power to make Treaties, and that the sanction
of the Legislature was still necessary to give them
legal validity, because the influence of toe Ctowa
was so great in both Houses as to carry any mea-
■Qre it pleased throu^ them. But it would not
40 in this country. The comparison, therefore,
betwixt the two GoYernments fails, and no argu-
ments can be drawn from it.
The other argument respecting the danger of
the power being placed sofelT in the Executive
siose from the comparison witn Great Bricaio. If
the powers of the PaEainENT and Senate of this
country could with any tolerable degree of justice
be compared to those of the King and House of
Iiords in Great Britain, as little taste as he had for
nvulutions, he would not say but he should be
jnda.ed tojoin gentlemen, either by fraud or force,
to overturn the Cooiititutton. He looked — -' -
npresentation in the Senate to be ascompli
that House. Gentlemen were very fond of calLng
that House the popular branch of Government.
He a^eed that a criticism on words was in gen-
ual trifling. That gentlemen from Virginia might
asoert this, he allowed, as they had nineteen mem-
ben out of the hundred and five in that House,
md iti the Senate only a fitleenth part of the body
bat gentlemen did not mean, when they ipoke oi.
that subject,, to bare reference to particular States,
but to thewkole. The Senators and Representa-
tives were reeulaity apportioned for the whole
Union ; and, though on different principles, were
u completely iqtreaented in the iwe House as in
the other.
Mr. C. toncluded with saying, that he had _.
doubt the power*' vested by the Ctmstitution were
veil vesini ; and if the Constitution was fUrly
wwsidered, little doubt could remain on the sub-
j*et. But if the Hon*« pataad the resolution now
before the Committee, be should not consider the
question as decided ; but if the construction was
still insisted upon, he was happy the Constitution
iras not wholly in their hands — that there were
joined with them in the guardianship of it, the
Presideht, the Senate, and the people of the
United States.
Mr. HtLLHDD?E said, it was with diffidence he
se to ^peak on a snbject which had been so co-
piouslv aod ably handled by gentlemen who had
preceaed him. It had been his intention to have
*' It vote on the resolution on the table,
which the debates had taken — involv-
ing an important Conslitutiooal question, relative
to the powers vested in the different branches of
Qovernmenl — seemed to create a necessity of ex-
pressing his sentiments, lest by his vole he might
seem to subscribe to certain doctrines in the lati-
tude in ■n-hieh they had been laid down. And as
ihould differ in some respects from most of the
((cu tiemeb thai had spoken.he asked the indulgence
of the Committee whilst he made a few remarks
on a subject which he conceired to be of vast
importance, as a wrong decision might give a
direction to their Government which might be of
serious consequence.
On the one hand, he did not think that Treaties
could not, under any circumstances, be the subject
of Legislative consideration or discussion, aod that
they were not to look into them. It appeared to
him, that they not only had the right, out that it
was their indispensable duty to look into every
Treaty, when called upon to aid it in its operation!
to see whether it ban the Constitutional forms;
whether it related to objects within the province
of the Treaty-making {>ower, a power which is
not unlimitea. The objects upon which it can
operate are understood and well defined, and if the
Treaty-niakiD^ power were to embrace other ob-
jects, their doings would have no more binding
force than if the Legislature were to assume and
judicial powers under the name of legis-
lation. It might be proper, also, to examine the
merits of a Treaty, so far as to see whether it be
of such a ruinous nature as. accordine to the law
of nations, it would be null,* and whether they
would be justified in wiihholdinK Legislative pro-
vision to carry it into effecL He also considered
Treaties as subject to Legislative control, so that
their operation, so far as related to the people of
the United States, might be suspended or annul-
led whenever, in the opinion of the Legislature,
there was sufiLcient cause. And further, that ibe
clause in the Constitution which provides that no
money Bhall be drawn from the Treasury, but "in
consequence of appropriations made by law," as
vesting in the different branches of Government
a check adequate to every purpose of security.
On the other hand he did Dot consider the House
• " Tbomh Ibc (Isiplfl injnrr oTHrTw IMuliuiuin InaTTrUT
b Dat nAoisnl lo mmltr tl InnBllil, (he caKti IM ihsHnrwU
(•an Tml J nufhi le lXinul« allh ■ n^linl povrr, i Tmlj
penickni IB ih« Bute U suit, ud DMu ill obllgauHT \ do cob-
ducLorariha nUkD biTlii* (be jmcr la CBUr Inuj enfa^iniuuila
doFiKh ihlDgiuere capable or de>tn>7ln( (he Suie, lor (ha Hfn;
,db,Googlc
HISTORY OF CONCaffiSS.
UiBCB, 1796.]
Trtaty vUh Great Britain,
[H.OFB.
of RefvesentatiTea aa having a Conalitutiooal right
10 JDletfere in makiog Treaiiet, or that a Treaty
needed any concurrence of that Home, or Legis-
lative j'anclion, to make it the law of ibe land. He
had always supposed ibal Treaties were esactly
on the footing of laws in their operation on ante-
cedent laws, suspending and repealing such as
were repurnant. Treaties may sometimes re-
quire LegislRlire aid to carry them into effect ; so
may laws, and ibey were constantly in the habit
of making laws to carry into effect laws hereto-
fore made.
There was a great difference between giving
that House a right to participate in making Trea-
ties, and admitting them to have the same discre-
tionary control (whatever that may be) which
they have oYer [aws ; to be admitted to the exer-
cise of such a discretion might be expected, but
making Treaties is the highest exercise of sove-
reignty. Every one must reflect how very teua-
cious the States iiuve been of their sovereignly
ever since the Declaration of Independence, and
have opposed every idea of cooiolidatian, consider-
ing themselves in that lespeoi as being upon a
footing of perfect equality, b«ing all equally sove-
reign, whatever might be their territorial limits.
This principle is luUy rwognised in Vattel. who
■ays: "A dwarf is ai mnch a man as a giant; a
small Republic is as moch a sovereign State at
the most powerful Kingdom." Upon this princi-
et was (he old ConfederatioD formed ; and can il
fairly presumed, then, that under tbis view ol
the aubje cl, the States would ever have consented
so to iorm this Constitution, as to admit that the
powei of makiug Treaties, this highest act of
sovereignly, should have been lodged or submitted
'o the control of a body, where four Slates should
in good earnest.
It was of high importance lo the commercial
States, tbat the Treaty-making power should be
lodged where there could be a prompt and en
getic exercise of it. The United States have
mariiiraefDrce to protect their trade; the principal
security these Stales have for the immense pro-
perty tbey have coadiinaUy floating on the water,
mubi arise from the exercise of this power, in foim-
mg compacts for commercial purposes, or alliances
for mutiAl defence. In this way, said he, we
combine the power of other nations with our i
for mutual security and advantage ; and during
the sufferings which out commence has expeii-
enced, we have found the merchants looking tc
the exercise of ibis power, as almost their oikly
tetource and hope.
After these preliminary observations, Mr. H,
proceeded to inquire, not what ought to be, but
wliat was the Constitution of the United Statesi
We were not, he aaid, in Convention, but in the
libchuge of Legislative Ibnetions under the Con,
•titutioB ; and to understand the extent of the
powers intended to he gnnied in the second arti
de, section two, by these words, " the Pbebident
shall have power, by and with the advice and
consent of the Senate, to make Treaties provided
two-thirds of the Senators present concur," we
must advert 10 tbegeneral definition of the Treaty-
making, ^wer— what objects it may embrace, and
!>ow f^r it can interfere with Legtalative power.
A Treaty is a compact entered into by two inde-
pendent nations, for mutual advantage or defence.
Nothing can, tberefore, come within the Treaty-
making power but what bas a relation to both aar
, and in which they have a mutual interest
object of tbis power is to secure to our citl-
advantages in foreign countries which are
without or beyond our Legislative jurisdiction, to
enable the Treaty-making power lo obtain which,
ted States authorize an agent to make a bar^in
purchase, the power of binding the United
Stales for a re&sooable consideration is necessarily
given. Whenever the Treaty-making power de-
parts from theseruleSjit is without its lurisdictitm,
and such a Treaty would be of no validity. Un-
der this view of the subject, if we look mio oui
code of laws, we sh^l fuid few of them that cao
be affected, to any great degree, by the TrMty-
making power- AUlaws regulating our own in-
ternal police, so fai as the citizens of the United
States alone are concerned, are wholly beyond its
reach; ao foreign nation having any interest or
concern in tbat business, every attempt to interfere
would be a mere nullity, as much as if two indi-
viduals were to enter into a contract to regulate
the conduct or actions of a third person, Who was
no party to such contract. He could, he said,
illustrate his idea more readily by adverting to a
law, mentioned as being affected by the present
Treaty, which was the revenue law; which pro-
vides that certain duties shall be paid on goods
imported into Ihe United States, and on gujds
iug in foreign bottoms ten per cent, advance
le amount of such duties. This is a law no
have any interect or concern in the duties payable
by our own citizens intoour own Treasury. AUthat
a Treaty could do, would be tt) suspend or arrest
its operation, so far as the citizens or subjects of
the nations with whom we treated, were or might
be affected by it. The only operation which the
British Treaty has upon that law is, that in con-
sideration of out being freely admitted to the fur
trade and the trade into Canada, which opens to
the enterprise of our citizens a vast source of
wealth and advanta^ we only give in return to
the subjects of the King of Great Britain the
privilege of bringing, by land or inland navigaiioit,
into the United States, goods for which thev pay
no more duties than our citizens pay on goods im-
ported in American bottoms. British subieca
have always been permitted to reside and trade in
the United States, and peltry is to be duty free in
the territories of each. According to tnis defi-
niiion of the Treaty-making power, and as far as
he could judge, he said, it was correct, it cannot
have that aolimited extension which has been
ascribed to it. It caanoi be that mwiBter'whieh
has been desoribed as about to sw^ow up all the
.dbyGoogle
663
HISl*ORY OF CONGRESS.
664
H.OPR.]
Legiilatif e powers of Congress ; nor can there be
anj danger of th9 Prbsidekt and Senate having
it in their power, by_ forming Treaties with an
Indian tribe or a lOrejirn nation, to legislate over
the United Stales. The Treaty-making power
eannot affect (he Legislative power of Congress
but in a very small and limiled degree. Because
t Treaty or an Executive act may, in some in-
stances, arrest the operation or progress of a law,
it is DO argument against the existence of the
power. In article first, section eighth, of the Con-
stitution, a specific power is granted to Congress
to provide for the pnnistimeDt of the counterfeiters'
of the securities or coins of the United Stales. In
another article, the President is authorized, ge-
nerally, ta gram reprieves or pardons for offences
against the United States, excepting in cases of im-
peachment. Can any one seriously contend that
the Presidbnt has not the power of granting a
pardon to a counterfeiter of securities or coins, be-
cause it wonld suspend and defeat the operation
of a law, on a subject specially delegated to Con-
gest 1 If this doctrine be yue, that all Legisla-
tive power may be exercised by the Treaty-
making power^ Congress, ander the old Confede-
ration, nad unlmliled Legislative power over the
fitatei). The old Confederation vested in Con-
gress an unlimited power to make Treaties, ex-
cepting onl^ that the Stales were to be at liberty
to impose like duties on foreigners as on their own
people, and that the exportation or importation of
^oods was not to be prohibited. Was it ever
imagined that, by this general power, Congress
had a right, by forming a Treaty with a foreign
Power, to legislate over the States to any extent t
Suppose Congress, instead of taking so much
pains to persuade the Slates to consent to their
laving the 6ve per cent, impost, and in obtaining
which they were finally defeated by the refusal of
one State, after every possible exertion, had under-
t«k«i to have done it by Treaty? Would not the
measures have been reprobated with one voice,
and the Treaty considered a.-< a nullity 1
The next object of his inquiry was, what was
(he extent of the Treaty-making power granted
liy the Confederation to Congress? Under what
limitations, and where, was the Legislative power
to re^ kite trade and commerce? It had been
shown, he said, that the Treaty-making power
bad been granted to Congress in the most general
terms, with only the limitation mentioned; but
the most unlimited Legislative power to regulate
oommerce rested with the Slates, with one excep-
tion only, which was, thai no impost or duties
■kould be laid that should interfere with anystipu-
latioBs entered into in pursuance of any Treaty
then proposed to Prance or Spain. Each State
did ano, by the second article, "reserve its sofe-
raignty, freedom, and indepeodenee, and every
power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by
Ai* C(Hi federation expressly delegated to the
United States in Congress aHsembted." There
wa* BO mention made in the Confederation that
CoDgTMs should have a right to make Treaties
repeating laws, yet it was conaidered as necesna-
tily granted by the general grant of the Treaty-
Treahf letfk Great Britain.
[Mabob. 1796.
making power. Under this power, Congress did
make Treaties of every description, which re-
ceived no other ratification or sanction than that
of Congress ; which Treaties were declared by
Coneres.s, considered by the Slates, and admitted
by the ablest lawyers and adjudications of the
highest courts ol law in every part of the Union,
as the law of the land, and as having operated
as a repeal of all laws that- were in oppofiiion
thereto. To.evince this, he read two extracts from
an Address of Congrc^^ to the several States, con-
laining. a resolution expressive of their opinion,
passed April 13, 1787 r
" When, therefore, ■ Treaty is conMinuioiully made,
ratified, and published by lu, it immediatehr beeoinca
binding an the whole nation, and snperadded to the
laws of the land, without the interventioii of State Le-
giilatares. Treaties derive their obligation from being
compacts between the sovereigns of this sod of anollier
nation ; whereas taws or statute* derive their force from
being Ae ads of a Legadalure competent to the pasnng
of them."
"Raohtd, Iliat As LegHlatureaoftheaeveral State*
caimotof right pass any act or acta for biteipreting, ex-
plaining, or eoiutniiiig a National Treaty, or any part
' ' (or restrainiiig, UmitinK, or in any
constitutionail; made, laliAed, and pabUdied, they be-
cDme, in virtue of the CoufedeMfion, part of &e law of
the land, and are not only indepeadoit of the will aad
power of such LegislalnTe, but also binding and oMig»-
tory on them."
Notwithstanding, he said, the Courts construed
ihe Treaty as having repealed all laws repug-
nant to it, and bad so decided in'all cases that
came before them, yet to remove the smallest
ground of complaint, (for there had arisen dissatis-
tactioo on account of the non-execntion of the
Treaty of 1783 with Great Britain,) Congress, in
that Address, recommended the passing a general
repealing law, which, though it could be of no
use here, might give perfect .satisfaction to Great
Britain, that every obsrruction was removed.
Secondly, he read frorft the letter written by Mr,
jErFEReoN, when Secretary of Stale, a letter
which did honor both to the author and to the
United States, the following pasGSges, viz :
" For indeed all this (speaking of repealing lawn op-
poMd to the Treaty) wu supererogation. It resottad
lirom the inatnmient of Contederalion among the Staler
that Treaties made bj Congresa according to Ibo Cod-
fedention, were soperior to the laws of die States.
The circular letter of Congreai had declared and de-
monatrated it, and the several States, by iheir acts and
explanationa before mentioned, had shown it to be theil
own sense, as we may safely affirm it to have been the
general sense of those at least who were of the profes-
sion of the law. Besides, the pioaf of this, drawn bom
the act ef Confederatiaa iuelf, the dedaiatiaii of Con-
grass, and the acts of tlu States bsfore i
aame princi^de will t>e found adknowledged in several
of the documents hereto annexed ibr other purpoees."
Speaking of a letter from the Governor of
Rhode Island, relative to the operation of the
Treaty, Mr. Jefpersoh says':
.dbyGoogle
«65
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
Haich, 1796.]
TWafy vith Great Britain.
" PWuly implfiaK (hrt Uui abaohta pMH did not
dapend npoa LesulatiTe diacntioii,"
" Mi. CBnning, the Attomej fat Ihe United Btatw
(Rhode iBlamd.) Tlue act wu eooadovd In enr
ComiU mm enauUed bj tlie Trmmtjol Fena."
" Goiemoi of Conneeticat. The Covti adnited it
■a ■ principle of law."
" Mr, Lawii, Attomej for tke Uailed 8uiea (Fenn-
■jlnnik.) The Judges have uniAumlj and without
ieattatjon declared in iiTor of the TrB«tr,anthe gtonnd
dT ita being the aupreme Ian of ilia land."
"Virginia. Mr, Monroe, one of (ha SenaUra in
Consreaa, and a Uwrer of eminence, telli lu, that both
Court and Council there, avowed the opinion, that the
Treat; wonid control any law of the Bute opposed to
"In New York, Mr. Hairiaon, Attorney for the
United Statn, aasnrea n«, that the act of 1791, of the
State, relatiTe to debts due to person* within the ene-
■■7'a Hues, was imntedialel; after the Trea^ restrained
by the 8>peiiar Coarts of tbe State, ftom operating
aai Biitidi ersditon, and that he did not know a single
iBBtanc* to the cgntrary. A fall proof that diey con-
aidered the Treaty as a law of the laad, panmoimt to
the Uw vf the State."
" The eawi of Rutgei* w, WaddingUm. Weddings
Ion pleaded Iha Treaty, and tbe Cotut declared the
Tm^ a justification, in omoaiion to the law of the
Strte?'
" The case of John Smilh Hatfield, New Jenej.'
Mr. BondinoL His friends, confident in tlie opinion of
their connsel, and the integrity of tbe Judge^ have de-
termined to plead the Trealj, and not give ihemBeivea
flie trouble of asking a reteaae from the Legislature."
In Heorgia, in a case wherein the plaintiffi wore
Bivilafeid and others, BriUsh snbjecla, whose debts had
been ■equcMered (not confiscated) by an act of the
State diBingttia war, the jadgesdedajed the Treaty of
Feae« a repeal of the act of the State."
And that this was a well-founded and correct
opinioDj Mr. H. said, had since been confirmed by
an opinion of the Supreme Court of ihe United
States. It mdy be said, that these were Stale
laws that were repealed. This makes no differ-
ence as to the principle; whether there be the
check of thirteen independent Leffislatures to
pass the laws, or three aranches of one Legisla-
ture ; it only creates a greater difficulty in gelling
the law through, but does uof add to, or diminish
the Supreme Legislative power, which must be
admitted lo ha^eoeen possessed by the States, in
*3 full and ample a Tnaoner as it can now be by
Congresa, and when Mmilar laws were passed by
the Liegisiatures of the feveral Stales on any
lotHeel, they bad as great an operaliou, and as
bindiDg a force, as any law that possibly can be
made or passed by Congress.
Mr. H. farther said, that in May, li^, the Con-
Tention, composed of the best informed and most
respectable of our citizens, and who were the
framen Of our present Constilulioaj met for that
pDrpoK, and being perfectly acquainted with all
the above recited fiicts, opinions and judgments
rf Conns, and there being seven of their number
vho were members of and present in the old
CnngTess, ivhen the Address and resolution just
now mentioned was promulgated, which was
dtme only one month prcTioos lo the meeting of
this Convention, and having before ibem all the
Treaties which had been made under the old
Congress, thsy proceeded to draw up this Consti-
In tbe first place, in Art. I., organizing a Legi»>
lative body, and delecting to them, not all, bnt a
part only of Ihe Lcgi^ative power of the States,
in these words: "All Legislative powers herein
granted shall bf Vested in a Congress;" and
among the specified powers, the right of regulat-
ing commerce with foreign nacioaa. How were
they to regulate commerce 7 Not by the exercise
of the Treaty-making power. This article of the
Constitution has nol the least relation to that kind
of power; it was Legislative power only thst -
was meant ; it vested Congress with the whole
power, as far as the object could be accomplished
by a L^islative act ; out this power would em-
brace but a small part af the objects which come
within the term of legnlaliog commerce widt
foreign tiations; it could extend no further than
the bounds of our own jurisdiction. There is not
a single expression that looks like authorizing
them to act in any other than their Legislative
character.
The Constitotioe then proceeds, in the second
Article, to the establishment of an Biecatire
power, to be vested in a Prbhiobnt, and in the
second section, says : " the pRBstDBN-r shall have
power, by and with the advice and consent of the
Senate, lo make Treaties, provided two-thiids of
the Senators present erfncur." The most generhl
terms are used, and such as under the old Confed-
eration had been andersiood to embrace every
kind of Treaty, Commercial as well as others,
and had been exercised in the most ample and
unlimited manner, and tbe Treaties thus formed
had been declared and adjudged to have the force
and operation of a Irw, and toat they repealed all
ties
that were opposed to them ; and these Trea-
full force and operation, and
e the!
that I
presumed that the fraraers of oi
were ignorant of the laws of the land, or that they
had not well attended to and examined Treaties,
which, by the Constitution, they were again about
to declare to be the supreme law of the land under
the new Government. Now, if it really was in-
tended that the Treaty-making power should not
be as broad, and have Ihe same extension and
gieration as had ben exercised under the old
onfedcration. or that there was to be a distinc-
tion between Commereial Treaties and others, or
that Treaties generally should not eo operate ta
to repeal pre-existing laws, or that the concur-
rence of the HoBse of Representative."!, or sanc-
tion of Congress, shoold, nndet any circumstances,
be necessary to give validity or force to a Treaty,
how can we account for the total silence of the
GonstitntioD on this subject, and that there should
not be a single senleace la the whole iositumeBt
that even looks thai way 7 If anv limilaltOD waa
intended, the Convention certainly knew that it
was necessary it should be inserted. When we
examine the Constitution, and see with wbM M-
curacy and care it is drawn up, how wonderfally
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.]
Trtaty viA Great BiUam.
[Mabch, 1796.
. every part ol it ii guarded, that tbeie is not a sin-
gle word but appears to have been carefully eX'
amined, and when we call to mind the memberi
of that CoDTentioD, aud find (beta to have been
Ibe ablest aad most accurate men of our couatry,
we caonol preeume that we should have been lett
to the sad alternative, for the purpose of explais-
iae so important an article of our Goostitution,
which micht have been eo easily made definite, to
be abLiEeu to resort to the British House of Com-
mons for precedents, and those loo which were
derived from the most turbulent periods of the
Government of that natiao ; wheo, it is a possi-
ble case, that the change of a Ministry, or the
rage of party, might have been more immediately
the object ol pursuit than the true interest of the
nation ; more especially aa the practice of o
own Glovernment, and the legal opinion of o
own country, were directly opposed to such
eonstructiun. But if all this might be supi,u.it'd
not to hare had sufficient weight to have induced
the Convention to have introduced such a limita-
tion, or some intimation that such limitation was
intended, they roust have supposed it necessary
when they handed out with the Constitution,
which were declared by the ratification iheieof
to be the supreme Law of the land, Treaties of
every description, Commercial as well aa othi
To 'me, the language of this transaction is,
have^y one article of this Constitution, granted
the Treaty-making power, in general terms, to
the Pbebideht and Senate, and here are samples
of the Treaties we mean to authorize them to
make. This was also as far as be could learn,
tbe understanding of ine State Conventions and
people generally, and appears clearly to have
been the understanding of the Conventioo of Vir
ginia. He would not resort to the debates of thi
! observations
individuals.' That would not be an infallibh
terion to decide what was the opinion of the peo-
ple j but he would advert to the amendments of
tbe Constitution, which were sanctioned by the
Convention which adopted this Constitution, and
proposed those amendments thereto, which wer<~
•ent on to Congress with the Constitution, anu
entered at large on the records or Journ^s of
Congress. These amendments must have been
the expression of the opinion and will of tbe peo-
ple, otherwise the Constitution cannot be con-
sidered as an expression of their will. In those
amendments are these remarkable clauses, vi
" That no Gammeieial Treaty shall be rstifled with-
<mt du concomnoe of two-lhirdi of the whole number
of iha Senate; and no Treaty, ceding, oontrading, re-
■trainiug, or auapending the larritonal tights or daiiBi
of the Uiuted Stalet, or bd; of them, oi their, or any
of their rights oi claims to Gahing in the Aioericui
■eas, or navigatiag the Amehcan riven, shall be m»de,
bnt in caset of the moat urgent and eitrame neceaaitj,
nor any mcb Tieatj be ratiSed without tlie ctmcur-
Fence at Ihrae-tbortiu of the whole number of the mem-
ben of both Hotues req>tctiTe]y."
" And the CiMivention do, in the name and behalf of
A* people of this Conmonwealth, enjoin it npon their
"— — -" — fa Cimgnm t» eieH all th«r '
flneiue. and use all lewmaUe and leg*] methodm to
obtain a ratification of the foregoing altarattona and
proviaioiu, in the manner pnnided in the fifth article of
the mid ConititDtian ; and in alt CongreaMonal laws la
be passed in the mean time, to confona In the apitit of
thoee amendments as br ae Uie wd Conatitatien will
Here is the Toice. not of a few individuals, but
of the people of Virginia, expressed, not on a
lodden or trivial occasion, but when they were
called for the express purpose of deliberating and
decidiris on an instrument the most important
ever offered to the consideration of a nation ; an
instrument which was to bind thirteen independ-
ent sovereignties into a confederated Empire.
Here are the standioe instructions pi the people
of Virginia to their Representatives in Congrea.
These instructions have never been revoked or
annulled, and speak in a voice too loud not to be
beard by the gentleman, [Mr. Oilga} if he reajly
feels that reverence, nay adoration, for the voice
of the people, as he declares ; he now has on op-
portunity of manifesting to the world, that he did
not use those strong eipresaions aa mere words of
sound, without meanine, aa the words, the "^voice
of the people," and "love of country," are too
often lilted by conforming to those instructions,
and aiding a provision for carrying into effect a
Treaty which bas been made under the consti-
tuted authorities of the country, and has been
ratified with the concurrence of two-thirds of the
whole number of the members of the Senate, and
has become of binding force even according to
the true spirit of those amendments. The late
Legislature of Virginia had acted a more consist-
ent part, and though he did not approve of tbe
object of their renoTutiona, yet he thought that in
admiltine the construction of tbe Constitution to
be according to its obvious meaning, and to the
underaiaoding of the people, expressed by their
Convention at the time of its adoption, and not
attempting to rob it of what, in bis opinion, is one
of its brightest gems, by explaining away an ex-
press ana important part of it by construction,
though to obtain objects-which they appeared to
be seeking with ereat anxiety, but resorting to an
amendment of the Constitution, that assembly
had done honor to themselves and the State.
This practice of doing away the Constitution by
construction, if once admitted, would lead to the
most dangerous consequences.
Upon the construction contended for by some
gentlemen, it would have been improper to have
used the word make; unless the Treaty wax to
be completed by the President and Senate, it
undoubtedly would have said, tbe Pa£SiDENT aad
Senate shall have power to negotiate Treaties,
which, when sanctioned, according to the forms
prescribed by the Constitution, £c. That thia
House can, by their own act, sanctioit a Treaty,
seems to be pretty mucb given up, The Consti-
tution no where authorizes them to manifest their
Legislative will, but by an act or resolution con-
curred in by the Senate, and sent to tbe Prebi-
DENT for approbation. If any aanction of the
Legislature was intended, two-thirds of the Sen-
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
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Mabcb,1796.]
Tnats vilk Gnat Britain.
[H.c
R.
^eat stress bas been laid on tbe wotda, under
the aulfurrity of the UmUd Staiee, and in the
lixth Article, which declares, " That the Consli-
luiion, and laws of the United States which shall
betnadeiD punuaace thereof ; and all Treaties
made, or which shall be made, under the authority
of the United Slates," as importing something
more than what could be done hy the President
and Senate, and as poiating to the Legislative
powers of Congress; a little attention to the sub-
ject will show, that those words are not ased in
that place for the purpose of limitation, but as
deacnpiire of the kind of Treaties intended.
Under the Con federation the States had reseried
a right, with tbe consent of Congress, to make
Treaties ; it would not hare done, rherefore, to
haTe used the word Treatie* only, for that might
have included other TreaLics than those made by
the United Stales. The word Congreu would
not answer; for that would hare excluded Trea-
ties made under this OoreVnment; it would not
here done to hare used the words Preaxdmt and
Senate ; that would hare excluded Treaties made
hj the old Congress. The words, under Ote au-
thority of the United States, are the only words
that would gire a definite and concise description
of the Treaties intended. It will be well to in-
Siire where is the authority of the United Slates?
ot in Congress, but in the people. He was
happy that he was bora in a country where there
was no supreme power, but what rested in the
people, who hare manifested their will by this
Constitution, which they bare made and promul-
gated as a rule to guide all the admin is tratora of
tlie Ctovemment. This Constitution, which was
intended, and he hoped would prove, the perma-
nent foundation of a free and happy Qovernment,
delegates certaia powers to each branch, and each
is independent of tbe other, eiceptiuK as far as
the nature of the case, or the Constitution an-
ihorizes or gires a control or check. What part
of the Constitution authorizes Congress to claim
the right of being considered as the authority of
the United States? In the first Article, they are
rested with certain Legislatire power, but their
power is limited, and eren Congress, in the dis-
charge of its Legislatire functions, acts under the
authority of the United SlaUs. (n the second
Article, the PacaiDGNT, with tbe advice and con-
sent of the Senate, is authorized to appoint Jud^s
of the Supreme Court. Under what authority
do they «cl1 The PREsinENT is made Com-
nander-in-Chief of the Army. Does he not act
under the authority of the United States, iude-
pendent of Congreasf Could not a pardon be
plead in a Court of the United States:, as beioff
^ren nnder the authority of the United States!
in short, erery act done under the Constitution,
is done under the aathoritf of the United Stales.
Making laws aiul making Treaties are very
different and distinct in their nature, one being a
^elaiation of the will of the nation by a Legis-
laiiTe act, and the other being a compact entered
into by two independent nations. Both are very
important in their operation, and such a ci
lion ought lo be gireo to the Constitution (if at all
doubtful) as will admit both to har« the freest
and fullest exercise of their power. The con-
struction contended for by some gentlemen would
verv much restrain, if not annihilate the functions
of the Treaiy-m^ng power, and give the Legis-
lative power almost an absolute control over it;
but the construction which he contended for,
would admit the Treaty-making power to a fair
and full exercise of its functions, and would ope-
rate as a very small restraint upon the Legislative
power. This construction ought therefore to
prevail.
For these reasons, and others that had been
stated by other gentlemen in a more striking and
forcible language than was within the reach of
his abilities, he was, tie said, decidedly of opinion
that Treaties, when made and ratified by the
Presioent, by aad with the advice and cimseni
of two-thirds of the Senate, are made under the
authority of the United States, hare tbe binding
force of a law, repeating all antecedent laws repu^
nant thereto, as a natural consequence of theu
having the force of a law ; for it is absurd to sup-
pose mere can be two laws directly opposite to
each other, and in operation and force at ue same
time. It is an inranable rule, thai the last law re>
peals the former. Such a Treaty is, however,
capable of being operated upon, suspended, or an-
nulled, so far as the citizens of the United States
are concerned, by a subseqnent Legialatire act.
This ha.s been questioned, but no satisfactory rea-
son has been given why it should not be so ; there
are many which make it appear necessary, other-
wise the Oorernment could not arrest the opera-
tions of B Treaty which had once become a law,
though the other party should fail to fulfil some
important article, or be guilty of a direct riolalioit
of the whole, but by a declaration of war ; nor, if
found to be unequal, and to hare been attained by
the fraud and bribery of the other partv. Thii
light has generally been lodged in tne same
hands that bad the power of declaring war. It
would seem that the power of declaring war must
naturally involve in it the power of doing lessei
acts, which might in their consequences lead to
war, there being no superior to whom resort can
be had lo determine when a nation has justifiable
cause, according to the Laws of Nations, for de-
rarting from a Treaty, or refusing to obserre it.
Prom tbe nature of the case, it must rest in the
judgment and discretion of each party, under thia
penalty, however, that a misjudging will give the
other natioti justifiable cause of war. By our
Constitution, the power of declaring war is vest-
ed in Congress,. and it would appear to be a pretty
ju*t inference to conclude, that they must also ex-
ercise Legislative discretion in all the other cases
just enumerated. This power must be lodged
somewhere; it will not do to permit every indi-
ridual in the nation to judge for himself when B
Treaty eea-ses to be binding. That it would be
right or honorable for a nation, for slight cause*,
to refuse or neglect to execute a Treaty be did
not hold or believe ; but « nice ohservancp of a
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HISTOKY OF CONGRESS,
Trtaty viik- Oreat Britain.
[Habcb, 1796.
Treaty, mod a tttict regard to poblic faiih, ma of
primary importHDCe to evety oatioD, and that a
nation would ultimaiely find snch a line of con-
duct hiebly lo their honor and advaniaire. 'All be
contended for was. that the Law of Nations ad-
milled that there were causes which would justi-
fy a nation in departing from, or refusing to eie-
eaie Treaties ; and that Congress, in their Leg-ii-
laiiTe capacity, were Judges of those causes, so fai
as OUT nation might be concerned, and had power
lo pronumice that a Treaty wns no longer the
law ol the land, and when they did pronounce
they must be oheyed.
A gentleman from Virginia [Mr. MAniaoN} oh-
serred, that if no Legislanye sanction was neces-
sary to ^ro Talidity to a Treaty, and there being
00 limitation on the Treaty -malting power in the
second article of the Constitution, it might admit
of a doubt whether the United Stales misht
QOt be enabled to do those things by Treaty which
are forbidden to be done by Congress in the first
article ; but no such consequence can follow, for
it is a sound rule of construction, thai what is for-
bidden to be done by all the branches of the Oo-
Ternment conjoinlly, rannot be done by or
more of them separately, therefore, those res
tions will operate upon all the following articles
of the ConGtitution as effectually as if they had
been repeated in each. That instrument is sr — '
mtrably constructed, that there is not a singli
perlllious word to be found throughout the whole,
nor a word used that does not seem to hare been
most carefnlly examined and cautiously chosen.
It has been asked, shall thi.s House, then, have
there was, in the 9th section of artitile I, one that
was sufficient to afford erery reasonable security
against (he abuse of that power, which is in these
words : " No money shall ne drawn from the Trea-
surr, but in consequence of appropriations made
by law." Those who contend tor the most limit-
ed construction admit that this clause vests in
each branch the power of withholding an appro-
priation. The very circumstance (J appropri-
ation laws being necessary, which !t is in the
power of each branch to defeat, makes it operate in
• degree as a check. If il was not intended to
bare that operation, but that appropriation laws
were a matter of course, the claure does not ap-
pear to be of sufficient importance to be entitled
to a place in the CoitstiturioB. The money might
fts well hare been permitted to have been drawn
from the Treasury by the law creating the obli-
' entioDS to pay, or that matter might have been
left to Legislative provision. No one will pretend
that an appropriation law is what creates the ob-
ligation upon the Gbvemment to pay, or that it
has any relation to a revenue law. This clause
bemg in the Constitution, ought to be admitted
lo bare some important operations, if any such il
can have upon a fair construction. A Tery im-
portant one, he said, readily suggested itself to his
mind, which was, (hat it was intended m a check,
>i only upon the Trt .
the Legialative power
itT-ma king power, but upon
alio i for, if it operates at
all, it must opeiats e||ually upon both. All Oo-
vemments are eufficienily prone to be lavish
of public money : il never oould be necesaary lo
adopt principles that would facilitate the issuing
money out of the Treasury, boi all the ehecki
which the art of man hath ever devised, or have
ever been put in practice, have not, in most of the
Gorernments of which we have any knowledge;
prevented the too lavish expenditure of public mo-
ney. Whether the check here contemplated wai
founded in policy, or pnidenoe. or whether it may
not in its operation produce great embarrassmentt
to the Government, is not now under considera-
tion, or properfor us to decide. They found this
clause there, and he said he felt an irresistible im-
precision on his mind to give the Constitution suek
a candid and fair construction as to admit every
part to have its full operation.
It was to him altoeelher anaoconntaUe, that
the Constitution idiauld vest such an important
power, which it is admitted ia here given; a
power which was to often to be called into exei^
cise, if at the same time the right of exercising
L^ialaiive judgment and discretion was not in-
tended. He looked upon it, however, to be a very
different and more limited discretion than it would
be right to exercise on the first formation of ■
taw; in the latter case, it would be an unlimited
discretion ; but where a latr had been passed, ora
Treaty made, wherebT the public faith was
pledged, neither branch would hastily, or upon
slight grounds, refuse the necessary approjwia-
tions. It is admitted they can do it, but, oecanse
a right or power may bie abused, it is no sound
argument that it does not exist Every existing
law or Treaty, he adtaitled, created a legal oUi-
^tion; but every legal obli^tion did not involre
in it a moral obligation to comply- In case of
Individuals, there may be a legal obligation upoc.
one party to perform his contract, and a moral
obligation on the other party to forbear to enforce -
it. Upon this ground, Courts of Conscience, or
in other words, Courts of Chancery, are^ in almost
every country, empowered to relieve, in certain
cases, against claims or demands whicn might be
enforced in a Court ot Law. In legislation, the
discretion and iadgmeut of every member must
be his court of conscience ; no one can measuic
his discretion by that of another ; if (he ddor is at
all opened, and discretion is admitted in ihe
smallest degree, there is no drawing the line. It
was not an apprehension that the two branches
of the Gkivemment who have negotiated this
Treaty, were inclined or about to do anything in-
J' irious to the country, that influenced &is mind ;
e believed Acre never was a time wbea they
more merited the confidence of the people ; bat
this Constitution was meant as an abiding Ihin^
and he hoped we should do nettling that 'woan
disappoint this expectation ; it wai calculated for
tempestuous as well as peaceable times, and he
could not but believe that some Utile coomJling
EQwer or check would be useful even npon the
est of men. It mighty at least, make them a lit-
tle more cautiouaand cueamspect, and sometimes
preTOit the hasty pasMgt of i bad law, or adop-
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TVMtywitA Great Britain,
[U. OP IL
lioB af a bad Treaty^ He batiemd, however, that
ttt practice |t would be found that ihe Repre-
seniatiTC brancb would as often need ttua cheek
as either of the others. Happily for this couiitry,
each branch is Repreaentative. Judgea of our
Courts are commonl^froim. the beataod most honest
of our citizens; y?t,it will be geDerally adrni** '
that where their judgments are liable to the
^ion of anolhei Court, they are apt to exerc
lilile more caution, circumapectiou, and diligence,
in examining and fiiiof the principles u^on which
their judgments are grounded, than might other-
wise take place.
No great inoonTeniesce, he said, could uiae
from aunutling the exutenoe of this check. In
tiueh a Qovernnient as ouit, there must be a de-
gree of harmony and good understanding between
the different branehea, or ilie QovernraeDt cannot
go OD. Th^ same spirit thai would withiiold an
appropriation, where it was right and proper it
snoula be made, would alio prevent the passage
of all necessary laws; and if either branch of tlui
CioTernment could be suppoMd (an 'idea he could
hardly admit to be possible) to be wicked enough
to abuse this right, and exeraise it improperly,
that biaach would not hesitate lo exeseise the
power, which cannot be denied la exist. On the
other hand, he eould perceire many advantages
which rntgnt arise from the existence of this
check; more, however, by way of preventing the
iotroduction of evil into the Government, than of
its being often aecessaiy to exercise it by way of
cocreetioo. It has rrer oeen considered as a wise
policy, so to calculate laws as to prereni as much
•s possible the introduction of evil, rather than to
inflict very severe penalties on offender*.
There was nothing, Mr. H. said, in those ex-
tracts from the Journals of this House, read by
the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. LvMtK.J
and since urged by the gentleman from New York,
[Mr. LiviNoaToH,] which at ail militated against
the construction which admits that the I^RBai-
DENT and Senate have the whole power of making
and ratifying Treaties, without the concurrence
□r approbation of this House, or of Congress. All
that appeared from these extracts was, that the
Prbbidekt, as also the Senate and House of Re-
presenuiives, have always supposed that an ap-
propriatioD law was necessary to enable the Phi-
aiDENT to draw money out of the Treasurer, and
that each House have an unlimited discretion as
to the snnis to be appropriated, or whether any
(hiog at all, for the purpose of holding a Treaty,
or for foreign intercoarse ; neither of these propo-
litionscan Be denied. An express clause of the
Conaiitotion requires the first, and as to the se-
cond, most undoubtedly before a negotiation is com-
menced, or any stipulations entered into, tbe dis-
cretion of all the branches of the Government is
tulimiied. If no money is appropriated which
can be applied to defray the expense, it is clear no
Treaty can be heU ; so if the PBESiOEitr has tbe
Cwer of sending Ambassadors or Ministers to
eign nations to negotiate Treaties, or for
other purposes, it is eqndly clear that if no money
>s apprt^riated for tbai purpose, be caimot exer-
cise the power. CoBgiess have, therefore, always
appropriated such sums of mtney as they judged
proper for holding Treaties with tbe Indian tribeo,
and foreign btercourse. As to tbe extracts from
the FaBBinEKT's instructioas to the Comntission-
era for holdingan Indian Treaty, which have been
read as a very striking case, where the Pbghidgnt
informs that twenty tnousand dollars were appro-
priated to that object, and that no more could con-
stitutionally be expended : Very true, there could
nai be more than that sum constitutionally ex-
pended for the expenses of the Treaty and pre-
sents to the Indians ; but did the Commissioneis,
or the Frmiosmt, understand that they could not
eonstitutionally stipulate in tbe Treaty for the
payment of further sums? The fact is, that in
the Treaty with this very tribe, a fu[ther and an-
nual Bum is stipulated to be paid, and appropria-
tions have since been made for the payment, and
be made withouli but the consequence
the Journals or proceedings of this House any in-
stance, and be called upon the gentleman to snow
one, where the Pkssidemt, in his communica-
tions, has given Uie least intimation, or either
House have done a single act that recognises the
right of this House, or of Cougress, to interfere in
the Treaty-making business. Their practice has
nniformly been directlv the reverie. ThePaasi-
DEHT and Senate have been ia the habit of making
T/eaiies ever since the formation of this Gbvem-
ment. What one has ever been sent by the Prk-
BioENT for, or has received the concurrence or
sanction of this House, or of Congress, except so
far as to make appropriations to carry them into
effect 7 It has beeo said those are Indian Treaties,
nthe
and the PBEsinniiT and Senate have n
power to enter into such Treaties, excepting vor
der the general power granted to make Treaties.
It is also but in one section that power is granted
to Congress to regulate commerce with foreign
nations, and trade with Indian tribes. H^wished
the gentleman would point out the authority that
would warrant tbe adopiion of a different line of
conduct in the two cases ; but he should, he said,
forbear any further remarks on that point, ana
should not attempt to imswer the arguments of
other gentlemen, as he had already taken up too
much of the time of the Committee, and his ob-
rising was rather to express his own senti-
. than to remark on those of others ; but he
asked the patience of the Committee, whilst he
made a few observations more directly pointed
to the res(dution under consideration.
He had not been impressed with the belief, that
the passing the resolution would violate the Coo-
stitutioD. They might, he supposed, ask fot any
information, or such papers as were necessary to
iten theii minds, and enfthle them under.
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-ofR.]
TVeoty wi(A Chtat Britain.
[Mabcb, 179B.
MandiDgly (o exercise their'Legialative fuactiaDS.
The Execntive also had an aodoubted CoBstitu-
tioDat right, and it would be bin duty to exerciw
hie discreiioQ on this subject, and withhold any
papers [he disclosure of which would, in bit judg-
roeol, be injurious to the United States ; for it is
to be presumed that the House of Represeotalives
never would incpntionallf ask for such papers.
The discretioQ must be lodged somewhere, and
DO where can it be so weirexercised, and more
safeiv trusted, than to the Ex«cuiire. Mr. H.
raid Qe had two objectioas to the resolutiou ; first,
that it was improperly and indelicately worded.
it was true that he loved and respected the man
as one who better deserved the love and respect of
the people of the United States than anj one that
erer has or .perhaps ever will live whilst we are
known as a nation ; bat he was constrained in this
case to say, he rev«renced the office as the repre-
sentation of the majesty of the people, and this
House, as the Representaiivesof the people, ought
Devei to approach that office hot in the moat re-
■pcctTul terms. In a call of (his kind, which may
reach papers of a very delicate aod confidential
nature, the reiolution ought to be so worded as to
leave to the Prbsiognt, upon the face of it, the
full exercise of the discretion vested in hira ; but
that is not the ^case as. this resolution is now
worded ; for it would appear, that no discretion
was lef^ to the Prebidght, excepting to withhold
Kpers that relate to pendior oegoiiattoDs ; and if
nhould withhold aoy others, il Tni^hl seem' to
thwart the call of the House. His second objee
tion was, that no definite object was mentioned
to which this information can apply J and it would
be improper to call for information which could
be of no use when obtained. As to impeachment,
noneutleman hadmentioued that in any way that
had the least appearance of seriousness ; as to say-
ing we wanted information geoerally, without
pointing to anv object to which it is to apply, we
might as well call upon the President to send
his whole Cabinet at once. Unless some spe-
cific abject is mentioned, the PnnaiDBNT cannot
know how to select the information that wonld
be pertinent or proper. In calling for information
from the Heads ol Departments, we have always
pointed out what kind of informaiioa was wanted,
and stated the reasons for calling for it, and the
objects to which it was to apply, aud never called
upon those officers to send all the documents and
papers relative to any particular subject indefi-
nitely. This mode of doine the business would
Involve this House in difficalty ; but, by pointing
out the ioformation wanted, and the oDJect to
which it is to apply, that oa\y is selected which is
enineni. If this nile is observed in relation to
eads of Department-!, much more ought it to be
regarded in this case, where we are calliog upon
the Presidbnt to unlock his Cabinet and send us
his secret and confidential correspondence with a
Minister sent to n^otiate a Treaty with a foreigo
nation. In short, from all tbfc circumstances and
observations which attend this call, it seemed to
hira more to assume the appearjnce of loo great
a degree of curtoaity in the HoBae of Repr«aeDta-
tives than a serious pursuit ader information,
which, it is expected, can he tised to any valuable
purpose ; he should, therefore, be asainat the reso-
Mabcb S3. — In Committee of the Whole, on
Mr. Livinobtom'b resolution.
Mr. GiLBEBT said, he hoped he should be per-
mitted to taVe some view of the subject which
had been already so long in discussion, and stilL
Mnder consideration. He said, that, from' personal
indisposition, the want of health, he bad not con-
templated taking any particular share in the de-
late ; that his first impression, when ttte resolu-
tion was at first called np in tne Hotiae, had not
been withheld. But, said he, considering the ar-
dent strife and combat of principles^ of funda-
mental points, immensely interesting, in his judg-
ment, to the CoBsiitution, Government, reputa-
tion, glory, and welfare of this country ; and per-
ceiving the high ground strenuously taken by
some of his colleagues, in opposition to his own
the duty he owed his constituents, to explain and
vindicate the sentiments be entertained on the
sobjecl — sentiments which would influence his
vote on the proposition.
When thu resolution, he said, was first present-
ed, it aflorded to his mind no pleasant presage of
the disposition of the mover, or of bis friends, rela-
tive to the Treaty to which it refers ; that when
it was candidly requested of them to <Usclose their
ubjeui, and state the particular purpose why they
resolved to have those particular Cabinet papers,
it was evanvely replied that they wanted tuem
for general information. Being further urged for
a mare explicit specification of the precise abject,
it was said that^ as Constitutional questions re-
specting Che validity of the Treaty would proba-
bly arise, these Cabinet papers might be neces-
sary to etear up and determine such points ; being
plainly told they could be of no use or avail on
such questions which could only he decided br
comparing and
might he necessary in ease of an impeachm
which,thoughnot contemplated or expected,might
be hereafter found expedient. But, more deci-
sively to sound the resolatioo, il was openly as-
serted and insisted on thatlhey wanted these con-
fidential papers in order to judge of the merits
and expeaiency of the Treaty, in order to approve
or disapprove, adopt or reject it. as a matter of no
obligation or validity, without the sanction of this
House, or approving act of the Legislature. On
this ground, he said, tbe dispute priocipally arose,
which involved the great principles of the Ccm-
stitutioD and Government. He had, he said, been
attentive to the discussion during a long debaie,
and should now endeavor to examioe the great
points in controversy. Many gentlemen had so
examined the subject that nothing really new
could be expeeled from him. The principal ques-
tion, to wit; whether the House of Representa-
tives had or bad not, by the Constitution, a co-
ordinate right with the Etenate in making Trentiei^
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
. IdiBCH, 1796.]
Trtaiy vith Great Britain.
he shootd fint ooDiider, leather alao with the
diatinctiim between one sort of Treaties and ano-
ther, made by some s<^DiIemeD. He would, how-
erer, first remark, that the meriti of the proposi-
tion seemed to be lost sight of, in the general de-
bate of abstract principles, which be thought 7ery
onnecessarily connected with it, and only became
90 from the giound which had been chosen to
support tt. He would abo lemark, that, in gene-
rat, be had been pleased with the temper orgen-
tlemen manifested io the discussion ; but was
sorry to observe aome instances to the contrary,
■nd to bear some gentlemen say, that, if the reso-
lation should not be adopted, they should vote
■gainst the Treaty, be against carrying it into
uecntion, admitting it to be the very best Treaty
that ever was negotiated. He hoped, be said, that
he had misunderstood those gentleman, and tiiaC
such was not their meaning ; if it was, be hoped
they would reconsidei it, and renounce such sen-
Mr. a. then adverted to the first section of the
Srst article in the Constiiuiioa ; observed upon
some reiaarks which had been made by gentle-
men opposed to his principles. On this section
he observed that, if the wurd all, which had been
so emphatically awett upon by Ihem. conveyed :
exclusive power of legislation to the Senate and
House of Representatives, the only bodies therem
named, he would wish to know bow the Presi-
DERT became invested with his Legislative pow-
er, as a constituent part of the Legislature T fur,
upon their construction, he could not be entitlea
to any share or degree of this powCr. He said,
that It haS been repeatedly remarked, that the
subsequent specification of the powers eranted to
Congress, in the same article, section eighth, must
operate so as to consign to Congress, exclusively,
all the objects therein specified, and so far, at least,
leral power afterwards granted ti
for another purpose entirely. He said it bad been
a pretty generally received principle of constru
tioo, that bU powers not expressly mentioned
neces-sarily implied in the Constitution to he there-
in granted, were reserved to the people of the re-
spective Stales. The words in the first section,
" herein granted," were noticeable in this view,
and related to tbe powers therein not granteil.
To determine precisely what powers were by the
Constitution granted to Congress, as well as what
were reserved, such specification was made ;
not for the purpose ofabiidging tbe general i
thereafter made of the Treaty power, and tl
fore could not have any sucn effect. He said,
there was no specification made in the grant of
the Treaty nowjr, because no such reason for it
existed, as tde whole Treatv power was granted
without any reservations thereof to the Sta'
He said, It was incorrect tt decide what po'
any department or branch of the Government pos_
M9;ed, merelv from the name or general den
nation of sucn department. That, in some c
tries, in absolute monarchies, and despotic Gni
menu, there wai no di(tiDCtio& to be found, al'
resided in the same penoa. That, iD'OoverniaeBla
framed by compact, as in our own. and arranged
' 3 several distinct departments, nariicular pow-
andfunctioDsHpreaily assigned to each — when
the question arose, what any of these deparments
possessed, it was to be determined, not by the name
or denomination of the department, as whetbet
Legislative, Executive, or Judicial ; but frocQ th«
designation of the Constitution, and precise mode
or form prescribed for them to exercise such pow-
'. He said, he considered that, hy our Cunstitu-
on, the PnaaiDEHT and Senate were constituted
a particular department for exercising solely the
Treaty power. It need never be a question, oi
deemed at all material, whether this power par-
took of a Legislative or Executive nature, or of
each. It was observable, however, that the framen
of the Constitution well considered the nature and
quality of this power, and, as if tbey Judged it to
partake of each, connected with the Executive
one entire branch of the Legislature, restricting
its operations, at the same time, to the necessity
of acting by two-thirds of its members. Here, ha
said, wu the check, here was the Leeislative
check, and, be religiously believed, the only eheek
intended by tbe Constitution. This brancbof the
Legislature, he said, was selected foi qualities
which eminently rendered them the most fit foi
the exercise of this important power.
Hod the House of Representatives, he asked,
any right to complain, because it had not been le-
lected also with the Senate, or because it had not
been selected for such department instead of the
Senate? In a Government like ours, said be, of
departments, should one branch complain beoaase
it had not been placed in the. station of another?
Should the foot complain because it had not been
made the hand, or ine hand mUTmui because it
has not been made the bead i Should this House
complain, because it had not been putin the place
of tbe Senate? or should the PaEaiDEMTComplain
because he was tied down and trammelled by these
two members? On this point, also, he adverted
to thecircumstauceofequality of Slate sovereign-
ly being insisted upon and relained by the respect-
ive States in the Senate of the United States. He
was conclusively of opinion, he said, that, hy ooi
Constiiutiou, the Pbebident and Senate possess
the Treaty-making noiver, and, together, consti-
tuted a particular aepartment for that express
purpose
He would next consider, lie said, the distinction
which some gentlemen had taken on this subject,
between the diSerent sorts of Treaties, as between
Treaties of Peace and Amity, and those of Com-
He asked, where thisdbtinction could be found?
He could not find it in the Constitution. He could
not find il in his imagination, ss he could not con-
ceive such distinction could consistently exist in
the nature of things. It is said, in'supporl of this
distinction, that onr Trea!y department mny make
a valid Treaty, provided such Treatv does not touch
anything or object lying within tbe iiphere or ju- .
risdiction of legislation ; but, if it at all compre-
hends anything within sncb ground or jurisdic-
.dbyGoot^le
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.opR.]
Treaty mtK GretU Britain.
[Ma.
1,1796
such Treatf is of no Talidily without the
tioaof the L>e^islBtDre. This, said he, is sap-
posing the sovereign will of the nation cannot
make a rule, or law, I'therwise than hy its parti-
enlar Legislative hody, and in the particular form
or mode prescribed for that particular orgna to act.
The nation acts by different organs : by its Legis-
iatire organ, to wit, the Legislature ; it can only
act upon things within the Territorial jnrisdic-
tion of the nation : but by another organ, it can
act beyond this^here, as by the or^n constituted
to exercise the Treaty power. Tins power exists,
■nd must exist, inherently in every OoTemment.
It may be concisely defined to be the power (o
aecomplish those objects which no other power or
organ can effect. If this is the power of the na-
tion, to be exercised for the nation, it has a right
to use all the things or means belonging to the na-
tion, reasODBble and fit, and which are necessary
lo accomplish the great objects of the nation, be-
yond the jtirisdiction and power of any other na-
tional power, or organ ; for, otherwise, the inter-
est snd important objects of the sovereign will
would not be accomplished at all.
The distinction, said he, made between Treaties,
whether of one sort or of another, cannot there-
fore exist. He said, no such distinction could be
mpposed to have been entertained by the enlight-
ened framers of the Constitution, for they had
made no such discrimination. The terms (hey
had used in granting this Treaty power could not
{NMsibly imply any such distinction, and if we
were to lodt to the terms they had used, and to
onr own former Government, for the most proba-
ble source of their meaning, examine all the Trea-
ties ever made by this country, and he said he be-
lieved we might also eKarnine every Treaty ex-
isting between other nations, and we should find
BO snch distinction, or possible ground for it. All
will be found to comprehend objects mote or less
lying within the ordinary sphere of legislation, as
exercised by one organ for legislatias and making
itatntes — this construction must fail. He askea,
if any Treaty with a foreign nation, negotiated in
a foreign country, by Ministers despatched for the
purpose, could be carried on without some expense
to the nation? And if such expense would he
defrayed without moneyl And if such money
eould constilntionalty be advanced without appro-
priation made by law 1 If not. then the difference
contended for Mtween a valid and an invalid
Treaty, could not exist. He would, he said, next
proceed to consider the objection which had been
made on the gronod, that, upon this doctrine, there
would exist two supreme Legislative powers acting
without control on each other upon the same per-
sons and things, within the nation.
Such, he Served, had been said aod relied
upon as the unanswerable objection. He had, he
said, already remarked upon a nrineiple, in look-
ing at the diaiinction feontended for, just noticed,
which would discover, in his opinion, the fallacy
of this supposed unanswerable objection. The
sovereign will of the nation, acting by or through
■ its constituted organs, regulates and controls eve-
rything within its power. The Legislature being
ne organ, by which it acts, is destined to ma-
those things lying within the Territorial ju-
risBiction only, and can exercise or extend the so-
ill of the natioD no further. The inter-
nation, arising from foreign intercourse,
its objecls connected with foreign nations, can be
laged and accomplished by the Treaty depart-
it, by allowing them a sufficient portion bf the
naiioaal power to accomplish its object, and he
' '' :d it could not be suppoiied that this depart-
ment were not intended to possess all such powers
the Treaty power required, being designed by
e nation solely as an organ for the exercise of
this power. Whatever, then, this organ transact-
ed with foreign nations, which reasonably and ne-
cessarily involved such objects of the nation, lying
within its Territorial sphere, as were naturally
connected with the great objects of foreien inter-
course, was done by the sovereign will of the na-
tion, and must and would be respected as such,
and as such was equal to any declaration of its
will, by any other organ in the Constitution. The
rules and regulations prescribed by the nation
through this organ are, ne said, of thai transcend-
ent authority that would nullify any impediment
from any other source. The acts of this organ of
the wilt of the nation become obligatory upon the
nation and laws to the citizens and members of
it, so as to repeal any taw of (be Legislature re-
Eugnant to this sovereign will of the nation. This,
e said, had always been the received doctrine,
even in our own county and Government under
the Old Confederation. The same Treaty power
there existed, and was exclusively exercised by
the several States iti Congress. The acts of this
power, exercised by them, were always considered
sovereign, eontroUing laws, to which the Slate
Constitutions and laws yielded. It was, he said,
the same thing now, operating upon the same
principle: therefore, the objeciioo, that two op-
posite independent Legislatures were constituted
wi,thin the same nation, must fail ; as such a thing
had no existence — the supreme authority of the
nation being the same, and equally to be respect-
ed, when expressed by one organ as by another.
Mr. G. then asked, whether, from this view of
the subject, a Treaty could not constitutionally be
made by the department constituted for the spe-
cial purpose of making Treaties, without the co-
operation of this House? Ceilainly, he said, of
this he had no doubt. And he was persuaded, the
distinction which had been taken between differ-
ent sorts of Treaties could not exist, without ope-
rating an extineuishment of the Treaty power of
the nation which could not beadmitled. This pow-
er being the authority of the nation had, he said,
as he had already observed, a right to use all the
lable and proper things or means of the na-
tion, necessary for Bccom^ishing its objects for
the interest of the nation.^ In article 6th of the
Constitution, Treaties made under the authority
of the United States were declared to be laws
of the laud ; yet, it was denied by the genllcmeB
opposed to this doctrine, and lo satisfy this decla-
ration in the Constitution, it was contended, very
gravely by the gentlemen, that this particular de-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mabch, 1706.}
Treaty wUk Great Britain.
[H.orR.
claralion, so fai as it eomivebeoded TieatieSj-only
telated, from the lucceeaiDg words in ibe same
article, to the indiridual Slalea, so as to bind the
Stale Judges; and one of the Keailemen from Vir-
Snia had raid, there also resulted a problem how
e State Legislatures were to be affected, as the
Jud^s only are said therein to be bound by such
Treaties. For his part, Mr. G. sdd, he could not
perceive the problematical mystery which seemed
so forcihlr to have presented itself to the mind of
that gentleman ; for, erea allowing this article
only to relate to the jodifidual States, any Coii^
stilution or law tberaia to the contrary, as ex-
Ecessed,aiid thatiheJudgeiibould be bound there-
y, he said he could not pcwsibly conceive how the
State Legislature, by aciiugj b^ legislating, one
way or the other, could coasittutiooBlly affect the
the idea that Treaties, which had the e&ct of a
law upon all the individual States, should hare at
the same time no such effect upon the United
States. He said, if the absurdity of any thing
were mathematioally capable of demoaslration,
this idea was lo^ as opposed to the truth of B self-
evident propositioa. viz : thai a Treaty should af-
fect and bind all tne parts, and at the same lime
not affect or bind the whole. He would notice
another objection which had been urged as deci-
sive against admitting Treaties to be laws, or
having such effect, the declaration made in the
Cosstitution notwiibstandiDg. It had been said,
that Treaties could not be considered as laws, if
they require the aid or acts of the Legi^atute for
their execution. Can this idea be sound? Do
not many laws of onr Legislature require the aid
and acts of the Eisoutive for their execution?
Or do the genllemen suppose it do law, or a very
poor one, that cannot execute itselfl He thougikt
such logic couid DevfT satisfy the meaning of the
Constitution. The expressions in the Cooatitn-
lion declaring Treaties to be laws, was compie-
headed In the same aentencB and expressed by the
same words'with the Constitution' itself and laws
of the United States. As well, then, nuffht it be
said that, by the same constrnction, tne Constitu-
tion and laws of the United Slates only related to
and bound the Judges of the individual State*.
It had alao been said by gentlemen, who seemed
to wish to find some meaning for the words of
the ConsUluiiiHt which would suit their doctrii
that the words therein mentioned, under the a
Ihoriiy of the United States, meant only and <
clusively Congress, compreheDdiug the Legis
tare only ; but this was loo palpably absurd to
dwelt upon. The greai and aurming objectic
which seemed constantly to he resorted to, a
ialo which Mr. G. said, all others may be resolved,
wu not that the PnEBiDEifT and Senate were not
fit to exercise the Treaty power, nor, indeed, that
they were not the most fit for that business ; but
admitting all this, it bad been seriously stated
what they might do were they to abuse tne pow-
er and trust placed in them by the Conatitntion.
They might, it was said, combine with some
foreign nation, le^netlwiiwelTea againatoai own
4lh Com.— S3
country, introduce and establish nobility, aristo-
cracy, despotism, abolish our own Constitution,
laws, liberty, and religion.
Mr. G. said, this was a frightful picture ; and
iuppose they should thuit attempt to abuse their
power, or that any other department, or all com-
bined, should thns Mtempt' to abuse their power,
where would be the remedy 1 He should be very
sorry, indeed, to be without a remedy. The re-
medy, the sovereign remedy, for all intoleta-
ibusee of power, rests in the rights of man,
is to be found in this country, every where :
but he hoped, there would never be occasion to
resort to this remedy. The objection certainly
was no ar^ment to prove the want of suitable
power, for ii only went to the abuse of l^iiimate
authority, and was as applicable to all other cases,
and to all other departments as to the one at
which it was aimed. The history and practice
of the British Government, of Spain, and other
foreign nations, have been reeortea to by the gen-
tlemen on this occasion to support a doctrine'
which appeared to him not only repugnant to our
own Constitution, but never before contemplated
by onr own Government. Gentlemen had told
us of civilians, of jurists, and sages of public law,
but for his part he had never, in the small coarse
oi his reading, except among our own country"
aen, seen any one who ever saw or contem- i
ilated the American Constitution, nor did he be-
ieve that there was one to be found out of the
whole classi up to Solon, the Oreeian sag& who
had ever entertained ideas of such son or plan of
Goverament. As to the doctrine of cheeks, which
had been so mneh insisted upon by the genttemeo
IP faVor of their positions, he said he would mab*
1 few remarks in order to show how, in his
judgment, that doctrine was to be understood and
applied. Checks in Gbvernmeut, limited and
constituted as ours is. If misunderstood and mis-
applied, would produce more injury than, when
rightly applied, liiey could do good. He said, he
never nnaersiood, in regard to Constitutional
checks in Goi<emment, tlut part only of a whole '
branch or department could cneck a whole depart-
ment, hut always suppmed that nothing short of
a whole department could check another. Tha
Legislature conid check the Judiciary ; so the Ju-
dieiar^ might, in some cases^ in ordet to guard the
Constitution, check the Legislathre ; but no c<xk-.
stituent part only, or part of the Legislature, coold
do this. It was true that, in a particular depart-
ment, consbting of constituent branches, who
could only act in co-operBtion,one of these branches
might operate as a check to another, as was the
case in tlie Legislature, where the benefit and w-
curity from checks had, to our own observation,
been conspicuously eminent; bi^ the check here
contended for was to arise from one branch of the
Legislative department oaly, and operate aEainst
another distinct separate department — the Tieaty
making department ; which was, in his opinion,
quite contrary to the principle of this doclrme of
Mr. O, said, he would advert to the objection
which had been greatly urged aod relied npoa
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
I. orR. I
TVMiiy with Grtat Britai*.
uid exebmn^, it wai oLligkUiry, ia point of
1 and poUtical obligation, upon the parties,
inlf remained to be executed; and, if », he
against the doctrine he adTocated, to wit: the
want of ri^ht, CoDEtitutionat power, and diKie-
tion in this House to withhold appropriations ne-
cesMrf for ezecinina the Treaty, oi in anr nun-
oec to resist and repel this compact. Mr. Q. said,
if it was allowed to be a proper Constituiionai
Treaty, it having been completed by its ratifica-
tion and ' ■■ - . .
moral ai
asd only , , ,__
eontidered it incumbent on the naiiou to falGl it,
and consequently the doty of ita RepretentatJTCs
to do whaterer was proper and oeeeMary for niok
purpose. They had, in such ease, iben, no other
discretion than as free, moral, intriligent uei
in choosing and doing right or wrong. Bti
honeal contract, made Toluniarily, by intelligent
agents, created a moral obligation. Every moral
oUigation ought to be regarded. No one will say
the contrary. When we feel this obligation, can
we complain of the want of freedom and rignt to
disregard hi Sorely ooL But, said Mr. Q.,«verv
engagement <n compact may not have this quali-
ty, may not create any snoh obligation to reward
it. It may be, in this respect, so destitute of ho-
nesty, so replete with corruption and baseness, as
to be altogether void. This would depend upon
«irennisiance*. These circumstances we may,
we ought to look to ; and, if we found the Treaty
attended with such circnEnsiances, we were bound
to resist and repel it. This was a dniy inconi-
ImM upon us, which could not be dispensed with ;
but this right, this indisputable right, Mr. O.
said, resulted from principles entirely distinct
from the principles which had brought on tbii
discussion. They did not result from any Con-
stitutional right or cower of makins Treaties;
they did not proceed Ttom a ground which gendfr-
men had assumed of oar exereisinK at all the Trea-
ty power, or having a right to affirm or disaffirm
ioca compact as a constituent branch of the Trea'
ly departnaent; bat, from principles of telf-pre-
Mrvatton, of natural right, paramount to all Con-
•titutioB and law. From coofonnding prinei[^es
and things so entirely distinct, Mr. Q. said, a^
pirently by some gentlemen, or not learios them
sufficiently distinguished, had, be believ^ ooea-
■■aoed great pari of that diversity of opinion so
viaible on ihik subject. If a Treaty shonld be re-
plete with all the terrible evils that have been
frigblfnlly described to oar imagination ; or, if it
should contain any one of them, or any thing else
which we deemed intolerable and corrupiry de-
signed for our ruin, we should repel it, at the
hizard of war or any thing else; choosing, as
upon all other occasion*, the least evil of the two.
Bat this right of thus resisting or renelliog a void
Treaty, will not ap;iiy lo one which is not void,
that is, not destitute of moral obligation— will not
apply to a compact thai may be merely cdnsider-
ea a bard bargain. And here, Mr, O. said, as bin
eolleague had borrowed from the poets, he would,
on this pointy since it occurred, refer to one poeti-
,eally describing the character of the good man,
■■ying, " though to his own hurt he swear, still
he performs bis word." The principles of resist-
ing or repelling a corrupt, vmd Treaty, beiB^ nn-
derslood, and entirely difierent from the priitei-
plet contended for on the groond of our snaring
in making a Treaty, Mr. O. nid he hoped there
would be some reconciliation and less diversity of
opinion on the point discussed. As to the merits
ta the resolution, he should just make a f«w re-
marks mote, and then quit the subject. It seemed
to him that it had been placed upon a ground
bj the mover and his frienM, so as to involve prin-
ciplea vaitl* important, bat not neecasarily con-
nected witn iL If the proposition reaotvm~ '~
call for tlia Cabinet papen had been ~'~
the groiud ttf expedieiMr and policy,
his opinion, was the only giaiuid on which it
ou^t to have been Mt, there could not have beca
great difficulty in the judgment of any one in de-
ciding it. He made this remark in bopca that
gentlemen who agreed with him in this saitimmt
would vote upon the motion on its mcrila,
without reference to thoee Conatitntiooal pnnei-
placea oa
expedient for them to have those Cabinri papeia.
If they were to be cansidered upon the gimmd
oaly of lAcial papers of aat own GoTemment, it
would be very different in bis judgment ; bot
those papers related lo the CabUiet concerm and
transBctians of a foreign nation, whose Cabinet
was equally ceacemed with our own, and, how-
ever inclined wa might be to expose all our own
secret ncgotiatioos and Cabinet transacdMis, he
said it could not be proper, contrary to the pnc-
lice of all other nations, to expose wantonly die
Cabinet negoiiatiiHis and concern of anotbet
nadon, which had been confidenliallr conducted
and eommitied to the custody of onr own Cabinet.
If any parucular porpose resdered them neces-
Mry,it ought to be specifically mentioned in there-
solation; Bnd,if it was such evidently as reqaired
the papers, it would evince the propriety of call-
ing for them, otfaerwiae it would seena not onlr
inexpedient, bat impolidc and onjuadfiaUe ; ana,
if they were to be called for on the ground vt an)'
co-ordinate right we bad to act in nuking or.
sanctioning the Treaty, it wms, in bis judgme^
decededly anooostiinilnnnL From every eonai-
deradou, therefore, he hoped the lesolndon wonU
He^
Le observed, that he had oecn|ned lAore time of
the Committee than he ever expected on this inb-
jsct ; that he had lilde con6denee of having sog-
gestad any new light, or pnrsanded any one from
prior sentiment ; but, the most be expected was, 90
to have communicated himself on the occasion,
as that his own honest sentiments shonld be well
understood ; sentiments, be said, which would al-
tt^ther influence his mind against the resolntion,
and regnlate his jndgment in considering the sab-
ject ofthe Treaty.
Mr. MttBHAT felt, in the fatigue of which he
himself was sensible from atteniion lo the debate,
that whoever should attempt to engage the ear ot
the Committee would have much to apprehend,
unless Jie could promise some novelty of remark.
Thia, howevM, ha would not promiae, but ha ra-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Uarcb, 17A6.]
7V«a^ ieilk Gnat Britain.
[H. Of H
lied opon tbeaeDseof duty which abimsted every
member there for a tittle m^algence, while he at-
tempted to deliver his opinions against (he resolu-
tion upon the table. It was a quesiion of great
magnitude. Its coaseqaences affected not only the
Coaatitution of his oonntry, but were cloxeiy iD-
letworen with its character, in the eyes of foreign
nations. It aiTected the (Constitution by a new
eonBti*nctioa of its respectire powers. It affected
the character of ibe oonntr; in the eyes of foreign
nations, by an endeavor to give a power to this
House to control, to admit, or to reject, those pub-
lic and hitherto sacred corenaols which bind na-
tion to nation in good faith. The imporiaDce of a
qaesiion involving such consideratipns would be
an apology to any meniber for engaging the Com-
The reeolntioa propowd by the gentleman from
N«w York, [Mr. Livinost^ti] was but the intro-
daeiioB to the qoestion. On the first day's debate,
before the subject was eommilted, he had opposed
this resdlntioa. He had not then certainly reflect'
ed as much upon the doctriae to which it led as
he had sinee done; but a few sini[da truths which
bad loaf rested in bin mind, undisturbed by pas-
sion or Dy new lightt, early showed him the ne-
cessity of oppotdDg a measure which was predica-
ted on a right ot which he had never heard or
ihodght, except since the late discussion of the
Treaty, ibrou^ the newspapers and pamphlets of
the day. He insisted tiiar the novelty of the doc-
trine contended for was of itseif snaicienl to eX'
cite an auxion' investigatiou, coniiderinv tlint we
act under a Government and Conntitniron so »-
iremely deSnite and precifle, both in the quantnm
aod modification of its powers, that any doctrine
bigbiy coastruetive, upon any important part of
the CkmstitutioB. will forever be a hazardous ex-
periment. He bad listened with candid attention
to the arguments that had been most ingenionsly
brought forward to sustain those nt?iv doctrines,
bat still found in the simplicity of those opinions
that had kept pace with hia acqnatatnDce with the
Constitution from its origin, and which bad been
soeongeoial with its practice, a basis of conviciion
which nothing that he had heard had shaken.
The Qoverament of the United States had been
in operation more than seven years. Treaties had
been formed and acquiesced in. These Treaties
ha<{ eatabliahed peace, boundaries, and the rigiits
of persons and of social intercourse ; they had been
made by the PaeaioEriT by and with the advice of
the Senate ; thev had not, that he had heard of,
been qnestionea as supreme laws of the land.
This Treaty power is now disputed, on a question
which was connected with an event upon which
maeh sensibiliiy had been excited. He did not
know how far the minds ol eenilemen raieht nol
be affected by the merits of the Treaty which had
girenoccasiou to the motion ; ho iv far the genuine
raaximsof construction might not have been swal-
lowed up by the sensibility thai flowed from a
cMistTUCtion of the Treaty power when applied to
this particular instance of its exercise. The minds
of itcaileq[ien eauld alone detprmine that mailer,
and to them he left it. Bui it was a little singalar,
that tile first foreign Treaty made by the Oovem-
ment should shed this new light upon the minds
of gentlemen.
He said, that the important question before the
House, independent of ite immediate object of the
resolution, was, whether the printed paper upon
the table, pnrportii^ lo be a Treaty, was a Treaty
or not 1 If it is a Treaty, it is the supreme law of
the land ; a public covenant, binding Ibe nations
who are parlies to it, as fully as if every individua!
of each nation had personalty consented to the
raiiGcatioD of it. If it is not a Treaty in the eye of
the Constitution, nothing that we can do will make
it 10. If it be a Treaty in the eye of the Law of
Nations, nothing that we can refuse to do, can des-
troy its validity, though we may break it. If it
be a Treaty, nothing that we can do can add to ita
validity, though it may to its practical operatioD.'
The question is not as to the mode oi breaking
Treatiee, but of making them ; not an estimate m
circnmHlaneea that are to ftee us from all duty
to fulfil an engagement, but whether the moral
and public obligalioa of Treaties when made is tti
hind ns ; upon the adoption or rejeinioD of a prin-
ciple, which, if adopted, is to weaken the bands of
nations by a denial of the Law of Nalions in con-
.verling the mere power of breakinc them aEUoder,
into a right 10 do so in the face of the highest com-
pact known to independent nations; this our coun-
try could never have designated to us under a
Constitution brralhlng good faith, justice, and
true freedom.
He would, he said, state sothe of the opinions
that had been the most ably argued in support of
theresi^aiion. Tb«re were several propori (ions
laid down : It had buan said that a Treaty which
contained stipulations upon any of the rtorved
powers granted by the 8th article of the Constitu-
tion to Congress, was unconstitntional : Another
is, that a Treaty comprehending any of (hesA spe-
cified objects as reserved to Congress, as mere Le-
gislative objeots, waa not ibe law of the land till
consented to by this House ; and that no Treaty
which required the agency of this House waa a
law of the land, if this House refused its agency,
and that the House has ' a Constilntional ri^ht to
refuse it. He said that he would state his own
opinions in opposition to those, and then endeavor
to show (hat these were fallacious, and destrnctiy«
of the ends which the Constitntion must be pre-
sumed to have contemplated.
From the letter and spirit of the Constitution,
made up, as it certainly was, of national and State
capacities ; from a plain, unlettered, and self-con-
sistent eons (ruction, going hand in hand with an
undisnuted course oi practice for seven years, it
had always appeared to him that the PRasmairr,
by the aovicc of two-thirds of the Senate, had
power to make Treaties. It was, he would con-
jpinion was
drawn. The docirinenowcontendedfor, istoup-
hold an assumed power that cAn at best only de-
feat, but never can be rendered instrumental in
gtvingexercrse to the Treaty pcnrer.
It totally destroy*' tha Treaty power gmrt by
.d by Go Ogle
087
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Trtatif Vith Grtat BrUam.
[March, 1796.
the ComiirutitH) ; but does not enlarge the Lezi»-
lative power of GoDgress. I[ may ao harm, oui
never good ; establish it, and the CouatitulioD is a
Boltity in that erant of. power, which is designated
to present an emcieDiorganof sovereignly, through
woicti the foreign relationii of the UmoD are to he
preverved for our use, end recognised by others. It
TiohtteH the Canstitutiun, because ii renders one of
its most important grants of power void. It violates
tlieConstitutioa,becauseitBBsmnesarightof either
•hariag in th« Treaty power, which, whatever
may be meant by the tenns " make Treaties," is
exclusively given to tbe Prii8ident and Senate-
It violates the Coiutitucion, in Uie aiisumplion of
m capacity in this braDch of the OoTejDment, to
give validity to what it prejudges to be unconsti-
tutional. If tlie propositions wnJeh he had men-
tioned as maintained by gentlemen, be correct,
there either is no Treaty-making power in the
Government, or this House, to fulfil and give ef-
ficacy, in sooe way or other, to ibis power,
must be. obliged to violate the Constitution ; one
«f the consequences appeared to his mind to be
necessary. Whan he said this construction could
do harm, and act by obstruction, but never do
good, he would' here remark, what he would af-
terwards a litde enlarge on, that there were in-
stances in which the House miehl rightfully ob-
struct ; but these would be founa to be, not where
there was a Treaty bindingby the Xisw of Nations,
but where fraud or other cause justified and often
enjoined upon a nation to obstruct. Iq those cases
he would remark, the right to obstruct, or to re-
fute to act, reauhad either frna a Treaty that had
■ ceased to be obligatory, as in case of infraction
bv (he opposite party, or an instrument not at all
qUigatory, as a fraudulent one.
ITihe doctrine ctHiIended for, that a Treaty op-
erating upon the reserved powers of Congress, is
uncoDstilulional, be correct, it will be found that
the Treaty power ot the Presioent and Senate
is reduced to a degree of insignificance below the
dignity of th^ Constitution, were it, instead of be-
ing wnai it isj the most exalted monument of
^(wd taith, justice, and liberty, the roost vile and
uie£ciem compact that was' ever framed— strip
the 'Treaty power of a right to negotiate upon
commerce, upon contraband as falling under the
commercial view, of free bottoms, ax belonging to
commercial aOairs, of the rites of hospituity lo
ships, of offences agaiost the Law of Natitniii, of
Consular rights, as aSecting a certain degree of
the judicial power, ofprirateeraand theirconduct,
of the fitting out of armed ships during the neu-
trality of a loreign power, when the United Slates
are at war, and upon what can the Treaty power
operate? These reserved powers, in fact, occupy
almost every object that it would be Constiiu-
tional for the PREainanT to treat upon ; they em-
brace the whole of the commercial reeulations
Xvilh foreign Powers; they reserve all the right
of defining and of punishing offences against the
Law of Nations. Conld it be ascertained that the
PaEsiDENT and Senate were not at liberty to ea-
ter it
], the wbj)lc of their Treaty power would be
reduced to a simple accepttnce of peace, a cessa-
tion of arms, without the power of avaiLiii^ them-
selves of any of the advantages of victory id war,
derivable from the reserved objects of Congress,
such as the rights of a more enlarged and benefi-
cial commerce ; or an acknowledgment by stipu-
lation of the rights of nations, though these wonld
probably, nine times ont of ten, form the subject
of ibe war. For if the President and Senate
cannot make a Treaty upon these poials, and
they are among the objects of legislation, they
could not enter into a negotiation at all upoa
them. If they could negotiate upon them, it must
be in vjrtueof their poweruoder the Constitution,
and the same expressions that would justify them
innegotiating, would warrant them in concludinga
negoiietioDby sratification of aTreaty upon them;
because, under the Constitution, there pannot be
found any middle groiind upon which the other
branch of Oovemnt^nt could eome into co-opera-
tion iu the malting of a Treaty. Its sole agency
is under the cogency of a Constitutional duty,
which is to display itself in complying with the
contracts of this sort, not in making them.
It is, on all sides, admitted that the Treaty
power is competeut to make peace. But here,
under the docttinecontendedfor,the fruits of war,
in HD advantageouti peacc,are tp be tendered doubt-
ful, if not totally lo&i. The cause ot war might
be upon some of the reierv^ povrers, as upon a
commercial question, or upcw an offence against
the Law of Nations. ThePBEBlncMrand Senate
could make peace, but could come to no binding
stipulation upon the very objects of the war. At
most, they could but negotiate npon them, but
coulu not make a Treaty upon them that would
be unconstitutional; but could they even nego-
tiate upon themi They could make a Treaty
upon them, or they could not negotiate upon
ihemi
By the Constitution, they are to make Treaties.
No where in that explicit and luminous body of
our Giovernment is there to be found an expres-
sion that gives a right to Congress to nwotiaie or
to make Treaties. This power is ctas-ted with the
Executive power eipressly, and must exclade the
Legislature. There cannot be shown in the in-
strument a power in this House to aid or to cm-
sent to negotiatioaj he meant to distinguish clearly
between a negotiation and a Treaty made ; the
one is the agency merely, the last the thing com-
pleied in theTiewondmeaningef the Law of Na-
tions. Now, either the Prbbidbnt and Senate
may uiake a Treaty, or they cannot negotiate
upon these reserved pointi>, because if it be admit-
ted that these points would be essential in »uch a
.siiuulion of uur affair.s, and (hat thi.t House could
not either negotiate or make a Treaty upon them,
either the Treaty power under the Constitution
must be adequate to the making of a Treaty upon
them, or no Treaty could be made. The Cousti-
tuiion could never intend to preclude Treaties
upon commercial subjects; it has shown that it
protected those already made, and our own prac-
tice has proved, that they are superior to our own
laws. Besidee, hod Ibe Gonstitutioa devolved the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Trtaty »ith Great Britain.
[H-c
national cBpaciiy upon the General Gkn
by excluding from States a rigbt to enter into
Treaties or negotiations with foreign Powers, the
right to make Treaties would, of necessity, be in
the Gieaerat Gioverninent, this collective capacity
of a nation must aiways reside somewhere ; it
must exist, because every nation is a moral per-
son standing in certain well-defined relations to
other nations. There must eiisi somewhere a
power, an arean to preserve these relations, to
fulfil the duties, and discharge the oMigations
which fiow from the Law of Natioiis. Can it be
conceived, that the ConstitutioQ designed to de-
stroy, or to render impotent, the organ by which
the nati[>iial character was to be presented to the
nations of the world, or can a construction that
nulliCes the clear and forcible expressions of the
tDstrument be a sound one? The Constitution not
only recognises this collective and essential capa-
city of tne American natiotf, but organizes it for
action in a way that scarcely admits of even in-
Enioos mi sconst ructions ; it has placed it in the
xecuttye, who, by and with the advice of two-
thirds of the Senate, can make Treaties.
If, as has been contended, a Treaty touching the
reserved powers, as they have been assumed to be,
be uneoBstitutional, it must be shown either that
thCDRtioficanavaililsetf of the Legislative power
ID carrying into effect its national relations, its
wants, its rights, and a redress of its wrongs, in
those reserved objects and rights, or that the na-
tion retiiMiiuishes ihem, as they aSbrd the means
of inlercaurae, or the medium of redress; or, thai
the Treaty power, aereeably to the second propo-
sition CMitended for by gentlemen, was to be con-
sidered as the mere instromenl of negotiation, but
not of a capacity to bind the nation upon these
points. This must be made out by the gentlemen,
or they mast yield to our construction. The se-
cond proposition which was held up to view to
be exposed for its extreme fallacy, is, tbat a Treaty
comprehending the objects within the pale of the
reserved powers, was not the law of the land,
agreeably to the term.s of the Constitution, unless
consented to or sanctioned by this House. This
proposition shall be examined after a remark upon
what precedes it.
Can the nation avail itself under the rigor of
this construction which is imposed upon the Con-
stitution, so as to render the Legislative power a
means of obtaining the full exercise of the re-
served objects considered in their relation to foreign
nations'? Or does it, if it cannot accomplish these
£«at ends by Legislative means, intend Co aban-
n them w^hen they present objects of advantage,
or disengage itself from the duties that arise un-
der that class of them which relate to the Law of
Nations?
The last is impossible to be the ease, as it would
be impossible'to accomplish the end were it in-
tended. The first is impracticable either in point
of fact, or under the Constitution, as a doctrine
thii can for one moment be maintained.
These reserved powers, so perpetually recurred
to, eonititnte the basis upon which the question
Med must be considered. It is contended by gen-
tlemen that the Treaty containing stipulatiom
upon them must be contrary to the ConsiiioiioD,
and erected upon powers usurped from this body;
because, by the eighth section of the Constitution.
the Congress have power, among other objects,
purely of a domestic nature, the following, which
relate to the present quei^tioD : To lay imposts, to
regulate commerce, to constitute tribunals infe-
rior in their jurisdiction, to define and punish pira-
cies and felonies committed on the high seas, and
offences against the Law of Nations — which, Mr.
M. said, be would repeat, and to punish offences
against the Law of Nations; because it must open
to any man capable of pursuing a regular track of
" -■ ,-;..... «f -,jpt5 in contact with the
lately presented to the
reflection a variety of poi
remarks which lie had h
Committee. These powers, He* remarked, ■
lative to two classes of objects and persons.
The first class comprehended all' persons and
things within the jurisdiction and dominion of
the nation. The other, such as were out of the
dominion but within the jurisdiction of the na-
tion. They, likewise presented to view things
which were incomplete in their nature, unless
considered as connected with foreign relation* ;
of the first class were imjiosts, commerce with
foreign nations, inferior tribunals of justice, of-
fencesBgainst the Lawof Nations committed in the
United States; of the second class were offences
committed against the Law of Nations by Ameri-
can citizens on the high seas, or out of tne limits
of the United States ; piracies committed by our
citizens. Upon all these points it was certain
that Congress could legislate. It might pass laws
relative to the imposts which foreigners are to pay
upon goods which they may bring into the Uniletl
Slates; but Congress could not produce recipro-
city under a siipulation pledging the faith of a
foreign nation that the citisens of the United
States should not pay more than the subjects of
that nation paid in our ports. Congress might
pass a law giving a French Consular Chancery a
limited jurisdiction, but never by its agency could
secure to the seamen of America a similar pro-
tection in France. It mi^ht define and punish
offences against the Law ol Nations, piracies, con-
traband trade, the outGtiing of armed ships during
a neutrality. It might, by a generous leaislation,
extend the blessings of a more refined age 10
foreigners, by withholding the operation of its
impost and tonnage laws where stormsor distress
drove unfortunate foreigners into our ports; it
might restrain the privateers of the United States;
it might declare that when the United Slates ar*
at war, neutral bottoms shall afford a sanctuary
from rapine to the goods of an enemy; it might
declare the debt of an enemy should not be coo-
fiscated during a war. All this Congress cotlld
doubtless do, and would have honor in the doing,
but this accumulation of kindness would noise-
cure to the citizens or to the nation a reciprocity
that right which is an imperfect right to our en-
terprise by coDverting it through the medium of
a compact into a perfect one. Thus, he observed
.dbyGoogle
HISTOBY OF CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
Treaty vith Grtat Britaiu.
[Mjrch, 1790.
gifing the fullest enjoyment «> the reaeired pow-
ers, let them operate ta their t\illest extent, you
stop abort of &ll the objects of the Treaty power
operatiog upon the same ohjects. You thus con-
strue the powers under the Constitution so as
strictly to restrain the eeneml grant to the Pbesi-
nEHT and Senate by tne teserrei] powers agree-
ably to the idea of a gentleman from Virginia,
and you fall short of any one object that the Con-
stitution could have had in view in the general
feated and rendered either null or unnatural in its
enjoyment any crauts of power in the Constitu-
tion, could possibly be the true one. Here was a
construction that narrowed down the Treaty
power to a mere cessation of hostilities — not into
« capacity of promoting our own rights and ad-
vantages with validity; liot of preservint; the
common relations of nation to nation ; of couvert-
inff by Treaty imperfect into perfect right ; of up-
hmding the spirit of commercial enterprise by a
high obligation of reciprocity ; of restraining the
svaricc or the injustice of naiioiis by pacific aikd
social relations and engagements ; not of blunting
■ the calamities of war when we are engaged in it.
No. All this according to this constnictiop thai
is to paralyze our power of self-preaervation while
it empowers and invigorates our benevolence to-
wards others. All (his Congress can do in favor
of foreigners, but the Qovernment has no organ
of intercourse by which the like good can be se-
cured to otirselves from others. Strange aad un-
natural construction by which the relative powers
of a people may be organised for the good of
othersj but are disorganized when their own per-
manent good is to be obtained I This construction,
which leads to consequences ofperfecl impotence,
that robs the Executive and Treaty powers, but
enriches not the Legislative power, cannot be a
sound or a rational coostructioo. Yet this must
follow the construction, that the reserved powers
operate as restraininz the general grant of the
Treatj power in the President and Senate.
This must be the consequence, unless it can be
•bown by gentlemen how and in what manner
the Treaty power may be enabled to perform its
offices, such as the nation may be suppc^d to
have intended ; that is, how it may be a valid and
not a void grant of power. They must show how
it might attain the ends, how preserve the rela-
tions and duties which the Law of Nations imposes
on us as « nattoo,'or prove that the ends may be
accomplished constitutionally, through the inter-
vention and active agency of Congress acting
Upon their reserved powers, which are specifically
granted as Leaistative powers, and which he had
sttcmpted to show could not be organized by Con-
gress so aa to attain the same end that the Treaty
power is perfectly adapted to^ if it can be admit-
ted into the agency. He ssid he bad attempted
to prove from this course of reasoobe that Con-
gress were incoropeieot, acting legislatively, to
obtain the objects he had mentioned, to wit : the
leserved powers thrown into action relatively to
ftireign nations, and considered as affording a
ground of reciprocal benefits solidly secured. He
Had attempted to show the necessity of lume or-
gan to answer this purpose. If he had succeeded
in these two points, the consideration of the other
proposition of the friends of the resolution would
.tuppott his reasoDiag with a force that he thought
not easily overcome.
Either the paper upon the table is aTreaty, and
as such is obligatory upon us as being part only of
the nation, because it hinds the nation ; or it
cannot be a Treaty. It cannot be a neutral in-
choate act; it is either binding, because it is a
Treaty in the eye of the Law of Nations, or it is
nothing. If it is not bindiug, it is because it is not
a Treaty ■, if it be uo constitutional, it cannot be »
Treaty; if it be fraudulent, it is noTreatyj but
if it has been made and ratmed without fraud, by
an authority competent to make it, then it is a
Treaty, aod. as such, the supreme law of the land,
agreeably to the strong and plain language of the
CoDstilution.
Having endeavored to prove the ikecessity (^
the existence of a power somewhere in the Con-
stitution, nay, bound in some instances to make
Treaties upon many of the objects which are nre-
judgingly termed powers exclusively reserved to
Congress, and that Confess is incompetent to
this great, this ijnprescnptible right and power,
Mr. M. said, he would attempt to show that the
Treaty was made by the only power under the
Constitution competent to make Treaties. Ac-
cording to the Law of Nations, five things are ne-
cessary to the validity of a public Treaty, or an
express covenant between two nations : that the
parties had power to consent, that they do coor
sent, that they consent freely, that the consent be
mutual, that the execution be possible. It would
be an unnecessary trespass on the indulgence of
the Committee to consider any of the requisites
but the first ; if the first can be made out by a &ir
construction of the Constitution, it is all that it
necessary to overset the general doctrine contend-
ed for by tbe supporters of the resolution, to wit:
that a Treaty in not the supreme law unless this
House consent to it, or because it may include tbe
commercial powers. If this can he fairly infer-
red, it will follow, that the instant the covenaBl
is ratted it is obligatory upon tbe nations con-
tracting; from that moment it Is a subject taken
out of the reach of municipal regulations, and is
within thejuiisdiclionof tbe Lawof Nations, and
receives from that law a validity to which l^is-
lative acts can add aolbiag ; it is then among the
statutes of nations, and its force and operation ns
a contract must be adjudged by the maxims of
that law alone.
The power of the Frebideht, as the organ of
the nation's sovereignly,inust be considered, when
we attempt to ascertain his power to consent. If
he had not power to consent, nothing can make
this a Treaty; we cannot give him this power.
Hif power must be dnived from such a construe-
lion of the Constitution as would attain the ob-
jects which be bad attempted to prove to be inhe-
rent in every nation, and must be somewhere in
tbe Constitution. If the Constitution gives him
;dbvGoogle
ii MS
fflSTORT OP CONGRESS.
Makcb, 1796.]
TraOg with Great BritaiK.
[H.OPR.
tb« powei Id make TmCiea, and h^hsi made this
tsceeabkf to the taade pointed out u eneDtial to
his power of coDKBIiDg, by ihe Beoate'a adrice,
and upon a *nbje«t-maiter whicb does not viohle
the Conitituiiou or the uecetsary Law of Na-
tions, then it would follow that is a Treaty, in the
eye of the Law of Nations, it would bind this na-
tion, and being a Treatf in the meuiing of the
CoDstitation, it mnst be a saptetne law of the
land. IfitisDotaTreatyin theviewof the Cen-
•titution, nothing that we can do can make it
Conttitational.
Hr. H. said that he would, in order to support
this reason ing, prodace ttn inference, if not amonnt-
ing to absolnte conviction in the minds of gentle-
men, a> least conelusi re against ibeir doctrine, by
going into an examioatioa of the second proposi'
tion, whieh he mentioned soon after he rose as
one upon which they relied. It wat, that a Trea-
n whieh negotiated at all upon any of the speci-
ud and reserved powers of Gongren was not •
taw of the land unless it be consented to by this
He remarked, that if it be prored that they ikil-
•d it) laahiDg out any hypothesis by which the
l^eaty-making pow«r could eonstitntionally be
brought to act, so as to fulfil the objects of the
Coostitution, their construction, which toc^ the
power from the Prbbidbnt and Senate, without
giving it operalioit thioogh any other channel,
eonld not be the instone. This opinion or propo-
titioD must hareneen intended by those who have
used it for one of two conclusiMis : either thai the
Pbbbidbht might ratify a Commercial Treaty
only upon a condition ihat this House would, as
a branch of Congress, having exclusive power
over commercial regulations, consent to snch
Treaty, and pass laws conformably to it; or that
any snch Treaty, being already, in their opinion,
unconstitutional, might receive validity by the
consent of this House. If neither of these conclu-
sion* eonld he warranted by the Constitution, the
gentlemen would fail in (be only plan of reason-
ing which he had yet beard from them, in which
they had approached in the smallest degree to the
point of conciliating the Treaty power with their
opinions of the exclusive right of Caugress upon
the rvaerved powers. If they could not maintain
these eoncliuions, they must abandon the Treaty
power aa lodged at all in the Constitution, except
in the ease th6y all agreed in, its competency to
Here, Mr. M.' uid, it was proper to remark, that
a Tr««ty,7hen ratified, is, by the Law of Nation:
a solemn compaei. It is admitted that Congrei
cannot make Treaiiea. It must be admitted ther
is a power somewhere in the Constitution that i
to justify the making of Treaties; and the point I
which the reasoning of gentlemen leads them i. ,
that the Pbbsidbnt and Senate mavmake TreatieH
oa the subjects of commerce and otfier specified ob-
jects, but that this Treaty would be [he law of the
Had, unleaa this House consent and pass laws upon
the subject. Let ussee where this construction of
the CcHutitutional powers will lead ua. ThePBrn-
IDBHT ratifies a Treaty, with the adtiee and c<Ht-
sent of the Senate, touching the objects granted
to the Legislative branches ; but that he may not
be entangled by the force which the t^w of Na-
tions attsches to a ratification of the instrument,
he ratifies giib modo, under a proviso annexed,
that the compact shall be obligatory if Congress
shall pass laws to gire it efieet, or shall consent to
it. He sends in the instrument to this House for
their approbation, consent, or co-operation — coll
it what you will— how would this House, in such
a predicament, act 1 what have they a right to
dot The first question would be, is this a Trea-
ty 1 No, it is not a Treaty unless you consent to
it; it depends for its existence on jou; it has no
obligation without your intervention. Were it a
Treaty it would be oblI(>atory ; but it is not a
Treaty, nor binding, till yon consent. Could thb
House do anylhini agreeably to their Constitu-
tional powers in the making of Treaties? Noj
that authority, which by iij agency is to give va-
lidity to a Treaty, is concerned in the nuDdng of
receive its validity as a Treaty, Its quamy by
which only it can he a Treaty in the view of the
Law of Nations, its force of obligation, from your
acL If you give that assent, by which the pro-
viso is accomplished, it is then to be a Treaty, bi
doing that, upon the execution of whieh tbe va-
lidity of the Treaty was dependant, do you not, in
fact, by a subterfuge from the Constitution, take
— yourselves an active agency in the making of
Treaties? This, then, whic
qaenee of the admission t^at a Treaty toDching
the reserved powers is not a law of the land, with-
out the consent of this House, will follow that tbe
House may aid in tAe making Treatiet. The
condition upon which the validity that makes
it a Treaty, and, as snch, law, depends, is a void
condition, because giving an agency in the m^-
ing of Treaties would be contrary to the Consti-
tution. But we must pnrsue this mode, or have
no Treaties ; for the PHEBrnBHT and Senate can-
not make such Treaties laws of the land. Con-
gress cannot make them, nor do anything in the
making of them. Where, then, is this Treaty
power, BO essential to every nation 1 Yet there is
one more construction to console a nation under
so ambiguous a Constitution.
A Treaty embracing commercial objects, stipu-
lations relative to offences against the t«w of Na-
tions, agreements relative to cases during war, se-
questration, free bottoms, contraband, rights of
war, bH acknowledged objects within the Legis-
lative sphere, is, by the construction contended for
by the supporters of the resolution, considered as
unconstitutional. The Treaty power, he had at-
tempted to show, must be deemed competent to
act upon these objects conclusively, or not at all,
as there is no middle ground upon which the Le-
gislative power could co-operate in the moJHnf of
a Treaty, by which it could produce an act in-
ehotate, till sanctioned by Congress. Now, the
Treaty-power must reoch those objects, or they
cannot be obtained at all. Yet it is contended,
I that though such a Treaty cannot constitutional-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
TVeo^y vUh Great Britain.
tMABCB,17g6*
ly be made biadiDg; thaj it is id the power of Con-
gress to make It so by its sgeacy. This reBsoniog
■mounts to this ; that Coogress majr legitimate
vhat is not legitimate j that Congress may makt
by its cottQiraace, or its express asseut, that cc
be CoDJtiiutiooal which was before uaconsiitu-
tional. This is the oaly consolation left by the
coQstruction relied upon : If the Treaty bs Con-
atitutional, it is a law of the land ; Congress, oi
this House, acknowledged io many cases to be ne-
cessary as the agent of its execution, may tIoIi
such a compact Dy refusing to comply with its ob-
ligations, or bv doing what shall viols
lationB. But he contended that noconstructionof
ihe CoDstitutioD which is designed to gratify its
powers can be a aoaod one, which is at war with
the supremacy of the Constitution, as a great rule
of conduct tu us. If a Treaty be uaconstiiuiiooal,
no -set of this House can make it Constitutional.
Such a construction of the Constitutional powers
can never be sustained against a moment's reflec-
tion ; it must be abandoned, and with it the very
last refuge which sophistry had taken in the wiles
of inierpretatioD, to give an operation to the ca-
pacity to make Treaties upon the iiegislative-ob-
jects, so as to render it dependant upon the will of
this House.
Mr. M. aaid, he had attempted to show that the
Treaty power, not being in Co^ress,
tomewbere in the Constitution. That the Legis-
lative power upon commerce, and other specified
objects, could not be construed into an exclusion
of (be. Executive operating through Treaties made
by the consent of the Senate upon the same ob-
jects. That none of the propositions which he
had combated afforded any mode by which the
Treaty power could take hold of the Legislative
objects provisionally i and that if the Legislative
grant were construed as an exclusion against the
Treaty power, there could not be a Treaty made
by the Prehidgnt and Senate, except a mere ar-
mistice, or at best a Treaty of Peace ; and that,
too, without the power of attaining Ihe immedi-
ate and just objects of war, which are often upon
the commercial points: And he had endeavored
to show that, according to his first position, if tbe
paper upon the table, which the Proclamatioa
calls a Treaty, be not now a Treaty in the eye of
tbe Constitution, uothing we can do will make it
a Treaty.
The power to euter into Treaties is in the Pbe-
BiDENT and Senate, or no where. That the Psg-
BiDENT has the power, to be eieicised by (he ad-
vice of Ihe Senate, is to be shown to all who can
read the Constiiulion. That this power must em-
brace commercial and all objects and things upon
which we have a right, or might as a nation be
bound to treat, appeared to be a plain consequence,
both from Ihe force of the terms giving the power,
and from the impossibility of admitting a con-
•truclion, that robbed the Treaty power of all
right over the specified objects, but provided no
mode of attaining the advantages and rights rela-
ted to those objects, through any other channel.
Tbe power of the President to consent, then, to
a ratification, appeared clearly to his mind to be
full and complete. If he has the power to con-
sent or to ratify, the Treaty is placed beyond the
reach of municipal control. It is among the Lawa
of Nations of the Conventional class. We may
violate and destroy its operation, but we cannot
invalidate its solemn obligation.i. There appeared
to him to be an error springing from tbe true idea,
that Congress has an agency in carrying Treaties
into effect. This is a mere agency, Iluuted to Ihe
rights which are left free to choice, and not bound
by Treaty. Those rights can be but aa to the
most convenient mode of executing what the na>
lion has promised to perform. Those who have
a duty to discbarge, may have a choice over ;he
means by which tbe duty is to be fulfilled ; but,
from a power of discharging a duty, uo conclusion
can be drawn that the party baa a right not to dis-
charge the obligation. It is impossible to snppose
that B whole nation can rightfully bind itsell by a
compact to do or not lo do a thing, and yet there
can exist in the same nation a power that can
rightfully obstruct theexeculionaf the agreetoeal.
Iff then, the nation is bound, we are bound, as the
agents for the nation, and we are do more, hav-
ing no powers but those which the Constitution,
which IS tbe nation acting by principles, has Ir^s^
ed us with. If the Treaty binds the nation, it
does the whole of it. lis supremacy as a law must
be tried by that idea. Jfit is a Treaty, it is the law
of the land. Its relation is to the whole. If it is
a law of the land, it is constitutionally placed
over every other law in its way. The idea of the
gentleman from Georgia, [Mr. BALDWin,J that its
supremacy relates merely to Stale laws, is a most
eilraordinary and unmeasured position. If it isa
supreme law, relatively to the State laws, from
whence does it derive its binding force 1 It in be-
cause it is a Treaty. Can a Treaty, he would
ask, be binding over State laws, and yet be infe-
rior to tbe laws of Congress 1 if it does this, it is
in virtue of its obligation as a Treaty. If it be a
Treaty at all, it must have the full force of a
Treaty in all its action. If the Trea», supposing
it to be made con.iis(ently with the Coostituiion,
binds the nation, it is because it is the will of the
~ in, expressed by an organ competent to speak
iL If the nation bind itself, it must have done so
in good failh, and not witn any mental reserva-
'' I. Now, a a Treaty be ■ full and explicit
mlse, and yet the laws of the nation reUtive to
Its own concerns may rightfully obstruct it, in the
denial of its supremacy over interoallaws, then the
nation violates its good faith, by fnaking a prom-
ise with what amounts to a reservation not ex-
pressed nor known to the other party. If it be a
snoreme law of the land, in the plam but appro-
i language of the Constitution, and be ac-
'ledged to be superior to the laws of the
States repugnant to it, it must be so in virtue of
its obligation as a compact binding tbe whole na-
tion, including, of course, all the communi ties and
authorities witbin the nation. To suppose that a
part of a Treaty can bind, and Ibat a part is not
binding, is contrary to every interpretation of the
Law of Nations ; and no coostruction can be found
that violates the Lawof Natioiu.
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP C0NGHES8.
Masoh, 1798.]
Treaty vith Great Britain.
[H.OPR-
If it b« a Treaty, Mr. M. obtetTed, under the
Law of Natioru^ nothing that ire refuse to do can
destroy its Tftliduj. He had attempted to show,
that ii vras aueh a Treaty, because made by an
authority coinpeieai to do it. We may violate it,
ire may destroy the ^ood faith of onr nation, bu
not the immutable principles upon which the Lav
of NatioDs attaches to a solemD coveuant thi
hiffhest sanctity. The dispute was not whether
this House will execute the Treaty, but whether
the House possesses the right to place itself in
siCuattoD in which it would be free to elect
whether they woald or would not execute a
Treaty when made. The only thing that this
House can constilatiODaliy do, if it has no power
in the making of Treaties, or in giving them va-
lidity, and he bad attempted to prore they had
not this power, is toezecuie [bem. But the duty
or obligation to execute a contract implies oo
light over that contract. A great deal had been
said upon the dati.s which devolve upon thi
House ^vhen such a compact exists. As this wa
a part of the subject upon which much had been
very ably urged by those with vhom he had
honor of thinking on the question, he would very
briefly stale his opiaioos and reasons. He agreed
with those who supported opposite opinions, that
there might be instances in which there w ' '
not only be a discretion of appropriating or
or of executing or not, but also a dutv to op|
to resbt the act These instances, nowevf
his opinion, would only be either in the extreme
case, wherein necewity overcame all other law;
or where the act was not a Treaty, because con-
trary to the Constitution, or the necessary Law
of Nations. In all other cases, the only doctrine
which, in his mind, did not carry with ii a deadly
poison to both the Constitution, and the character
of the nation for honor and -good faith, was, that
we were bound to execute the Treaty, and had
no more choice as to the execution oi the com-
pact, than an individual has, after he enters into
a fair agreement, whether he will execute it or
not. We are not the nation. We ate their
trustees, holding their ways and means to be ap-
plied to the discharge of all their bona jidt debts
and contracts. We can only eiamiae whether
the contract is made. If we doubt whether there
were fraud at the bottom, we then may inquire,
and in that state of things might avail onrselv£» of
the papers, if a well-grounded suspicion were
alleged. But when we know that the compact is
in force, and he had attempted to show that it
was in force, we have no election bat in the
means of carrying it into execution. What can
be the moral theory of that man who admits that
a sound contract can exist, and yet that the par-
ties to it are free to choose iriieiber they will con-
sider it as oblisntory. Ii is both a contradiction
■nd a Btibierfnge, to mainiaio which, in the eyes
of ihe world, would bring upon the nation which
shall act upon tnch a principle, the imputation of
perfidy and bad faith. Not that he beheved it to
I*" the intention of the House to refuse to execute
the Treaty; bnt the principle assumed went the
length of placing the Houfe on a ground upon
which it might, if it chose, rightfully do wrmg.
But the difficulty which we have to encouoter
is not merely to prove, that nnder the eonstruc-
lion which gentlemen have given to the Treatjr
power, as separated from the objects apon wbicb
Congress have a right to legislate, no Treaty ad-
vantageous to us, can be made; but also to ei^
counter another doctrine, that sets at defiance all
the Laws of Nations and the Conslilulion ; for,
by its consequences, it denies the obligation of
the first, and in Che reasons which support it. does
violence to the Constitution of the United States;
it is:, that after a Treaty is acknowledged to exist
in full force, this House has a right to appropriate
or not, if the provisions of the Treaty ^ould de-
mand an appropriation. All our duties flow from
the Constitution uad the law of nature. If a
Treaty exists, it binds the nation; of course, all
Ihe authorities in the nation. From Ihe obli^
[ion of the Treaty arises duties which the nation
must perform. If it be a debt which the nation
has acknowledged to be dne. it is our duty to dis-
charge it, because we hold ine money of the peo-
ple in our hands for the purpose of discharging
their debts. We hold nothing so much our own
as to entitle us to think for ourselves in such a
case. If the people make a Treaty, or any pro-
mise, through any other organ of their will, we
cannot rightfully obstruct it ; we cannot withiwld
our agency to carry it into effect, if it bind oor
constituents.
The contrary doctrine, the doctrine of free will,
of discretion as opposed to the necessity of domg
what doty demands, is taken from the analogiea '
which have been resorted to through a kind of
desperation, drawn from the practice of the Bri-
tish House of Commons.
From these supposed analogies, Mr. M. con-
tended, most of the errors in the construction of
the relative powers of this House flowed. Once
establish these analogies, and he agreed the House
acted conformably to principle. But these anal-
ogies are not warranted by our Constitution, nor
forced upon us from the nature of the case. They
have bMU hastily taken up to serve the purposes
of this particolar occasion. It would be a little
tiresome, but not superfluous, to take a glance of
the two Governments. The Constitution of the
United States, and the British Government. In
the first, we find certain definite portions of power
accurately meted out by the people in a written
iostrumeni to the respective brancnes of Govern-
ment. We find the people explicitly recognised
as capable of distributing their powers as best
suited their opinion of their duties, and intereats
as a nation. We find certain State capacities
with certain portions of reserved sovsreignly in
the system. We find a Republican form to be
adminiitered upon written principles and max-
ims, not susceptible of beina administered upon
any other principles than those which are pre-
scribed. We find the whole of the Government,
but the organs of the will of the nation. A man
would naturally conclude, that when powers were
so very definitely measured, that one great object
was, as much as poiaible, to exclude analogy as
.dbyGoogle
HISTWHIY OF CONGRBSS.
700
'H.ofR.]
TVMtty uiA Great BriUttit.
[Harob, 1798.
the gioand of usDmiiiff what wu not expressly
delegated and modified agreeably to the written
papery and that the earns wiadom in the nation
that digested such a syileni, wonld demand of its
public fuQctioDartes aa cxerciie of the respective
grants of power conforpiably siricily lo the va-
nous portions deposited in their hands.
Look, on the contrary, at the British Ooveni-
ment. He would agree that we had inherited
and borrowed from that Conatiiution and their
laws, a thau«.nd profaqnd masima and principlea
thatledlo the improTements which we now enjoy.
Bat he inaiiled that we had improved upon them
in the asGienment of duties ana grants of power j
in the eiprjcitness of those grants, by which con-
teat among the branches was to be avoided. In
looking at the British Constitution, he could see
nothiuB of fixed right in their form of Oovern-
meal, but the Monarchy. He saw ia the King
rather than the people, the great reservoir Irum
whence the power and privileges of the Lords and
Commons, of justice and of honor, flowed in
■treams itarrowed or enlarged at pleasure, and ac-
cording to the action and reaction of the Com-
mons and the Peerage upon the King. In him
ke saw the Sovereign. In America, he saw in
the collective capacity of the nation the sovereign,
and Government, its established mode of action.
The Commons in England grant supplies to the
King. Here we grant supplies to fulfil the views
and obligations of the people. Here an appro-
iriation IS less a grant of money than an act of
laty, to which the Constitution, that is, the will
of the nation, obliges us. There, supplies and
grievances have been for centuries a measure of
compromise, and the mode by which the Com-
mons have accumulated powers and checks against
a throne. There, we see the powers of the Com-
mons growing by absorption from the prerogative
of the Crown. Here, we see in the powers of this
House, not the spoils of contest, not the trophies
of repealed victory over the other branches of the
Gtovemment, bat a specific quantum of trust
I^aced in our bands, to be ^ercised for the peo-
ple agreeably to the Constiintion. We ascend for
our derivation of authority and strength to the
fountain of all political power; they gain theirs
by cutting away that royal reservoir that has
been sucking in for ages by dark and now unex-
plimtble channels, the authorities and powers of
the nation. The Commons are called by the
King, and may not he called by him more than
once in three years. Their very existence de-
pends upon their instrumentality in furnishing
■npplies to the King. The Lords are of his crea-
tion. The CommMiE, if refractory, can be dis-
•olved, and an appeal thus be made to the nation.
The Senate here ii created by the people, and
elealed for only six yeara. Here the Pubsiocnt
cannot diuolve Congress, even if they chose to
adopt a right of stopping the wheels of Govern-
ment. He said, that had not ilieia antWiei been
upheld by respectable anihority ; had they been
•npporwd fay men unfriendly to our Constitution,
he should have snipected tkat the resemblanoe
was attempted for the purpose of rendering our
S
>wn Government less valuable in the eyes of oni
ellow-citizens ; and if the gentleman from Penn-
iylvania [Mr. Gallatin] who has shown bu(^
powers upon this question, had been hostile to the
Qovernment, he scarcely could imagine a mode
that he coald have chosen, better adapted to make
the Government unpopular than this supposed
analogy j for the whole of each of the Glovent-
ts must be taken into view when you attempt
■rive powers from the presumed analogy of
any of its branches. He denied that there was
any such analogy between the powers and jKivi-
leges of the Commons of Great Britain and the
powers and duties of the House of Representa-
tives, that yon could for a moment maintain a
right of refusing to appropiate money to make
gwd a national compact because the Commons
exercised that right. Theirs isa system in which
jealousy must hold the balance between braochea,
some of which have at best but a precarious ex-
istence, and another branch, whicn is the only
great substantive figure in their fi>rm of GoTem-
ment. In fact, tbe two Constitutions differ esaen-
tiaily. The branches here are eleeied for diort
periods by the people. The Pbbbidkmt u one
organ constituted and elected by the people. The
Senate are constituted and elected by tbe people.
This House is elected by the people; not lo strug-
gle with each other, but m give action to the
Constitution ; and no right can be assumed by any
one branch that gives a p>Wer of making tM
Constitution inactive or mefficient to its gmt
ends. To overturn this Constitution is not mere-
ly to oppose it by violence. To refuse lo act, to
withhold an active discharge of the daties it Or
joins upon the different branches, would as eSect-
ually prostrate it as open violence cotild do.
To say, therefore,' that the disoretioit of thu
House is complete, because the Hauae of Com-
mons, in order to preserve their very existence,
makes a compromising discretion the meuis of
gaining their points, is to infer from our tight to
appropriate, and our duty to do so, a right to re-
fuite those ways and means which must be voteA,
or the Constitution is a dead and inactive body.
Other gentlemen, with whom he agreed in
opinion, had tendered it unnecessary for him to
say any thing upon the opinions that were enter-
tained at the adoption of the Constitution, upon
the question now before the Committee. He be-
lieved that, from one end of America to the other,
it was taken fot granted that this House had no-
thing to do in the making of Treaties, and that
this power, was exclusively in the Senate aitd
Prbbidbmt. The gentleman just up, from New
York, [Mr. GilbebtJ and the geaileman from
Rhode Island, [Mr. Bodrhe,] had placed the is-
terests of the small States, in tiiis ci
so forcible and cotteo: a point of view, that he
would not say a word upon that very interesting
part of the subject. But, of the cODtemporaneoos
opinion^ that were supported in the Conventitn
which iramed the Constitution, he would make
a remark or two. He cot^eased himself extreme-
ly surprised that the gentleman from Virginia,
whp was in ttiat Convention, [Ut. Madisoh,]
.dbyGoogle
701
HiSTOKT.OF CONGRESS,
MtRCH, 1796.]
TnmtyvHli Ortat BrOaiK.
[H-orR
and the gcntlaniaD from Georgia [Mf. Baldvcn]
hid not fsTOted the Qotamiltea with the view
which either they or others had taken of this im-
portant point in the CoaveDtioa. Surelv, Mr. M.
said, the world woald hare excused a departure
from comnioii caultoauponasubjectsoexttetaely
iuter«3tiDg, one in which a great quastioa was
aigned upon the CoDstiiutional powers of each
braocb. Sotue great facts mtut be known to
thete nntlemeo, which, if mentioaed, would
throw Tight upon the point. Some reeoUoction
of motions mwie npon this very point, pursued,
argued, aad decided, from which we could team
what was excluaiTely granted to the Phesideht
uid Senate, by what the House of Repreaenta-
tivea were refused a participation in. The gen-
tleman from yitginia had borne an exalted nuk
among those who framed the very instrament.
To his genius and patriotism, in a great degree,
he had always understujd, wccc we iudcbtpd for
the Cossticution. Would it not be expected that
be who had helped to speak through the Consti-
iDiion ^uld be well prepared to expound it by
contemporaneous opinions? Would it not be do-
sirable that, if there are doubts, if we wander in
the dark, the gentleman should afiard us light, as
be has it in aouodanee t If the Convention spoke
mysterioos phrases, and the gentleman helped to
otter them, will not the gentleman aid the ex-
pounding of the mystery 1 If the gentleman was
the Pythia in the temple, ought he not to explain
the ambiguous language of the oracle? To no
man's exposition would he listen with more defer-
euee. If any cause could justify the intrusion of
curiosity upon a deposite of secreu in a very
aanctnarr itself ii would be thin doubt, and he
should almost feel at liberty to open the Joomals
of the Canvention, to see at least what they
meant who spoke a language to others ambigu-
ous, but to himself plain, incontrovercihly plain.
In the constraciion of other Constitutions, some
fornied by mere chatters of privileges, others
ridng from practice, we &od thebistonan and the
commentator obliged, in the support of theory, to
resort to records unintelligible, from a change of
names and of mannem, or to the uncertain lights
of mere tradition. But, in construing our Con-
stitution, in ascertaining the metes and bounds of
its various grants of power, nothing at the present
day is left for expediency or sopbiatry to new-
model or to mistake. The ezpliititness of the in-
strument itself, the contemporaneous opinions still
fresh from the recency of its adoption; the Jour-
nals of that ConrenCioa which formed it still ex-
isting, though not public, all tend to put this ques-
tion in particular beyond the reach of mistake.
Many woo are now present were in the Conven-
tion, and, on this question, he learned that a vote
^ actually taken. We have all seen the Con-
stitution from its cradle, we know it from its in-
lancy, and hare the most perfect knowledge of it,
and more light than ever a body of men in any
country have ever .had of aacertaining anj other
CoQititution. If, however, a refining spirit —
« this day - '" - '■ ■ - " ■
part of it, c
of its plainest passages, what is'the prospect of
that posterity which is to be deprived qI those
lights which its very framers now find incompe^
tent to lead them'! One hundred years hence,
should a great question ai-iae upon the constiuc-
- on, what would not be the value of that man's
itelligeoce, who, allowed to possess integrity and
a profound and unimpaired mind, should appear in
the awful moments of doabt-and, being known to
have been in the illustrious Dody that framed the
instrument, should clear np difficulties by his con-
temporaneous knowledge? Such a man would
■--ive twice proved a blessing to his country.
Mr. M. said, that he had attempted to sbowi
with power he was conscious extremely inferior
to the subject, that the paper upon the table issued
by the Prebident's Proclamation as a Treaty,
was a Treaty in the eye of the Constitution, and
the Iaw of Nnilons. That, as a Treaty, it is the
supreme law of the lend, agreeably to tliK Coft-
stitution. That, if it is a Treaty, nothing that
~ can rightfully do, or refuse to do, will add to
diminish its validity under the Constitution
and the Law of Nations. That, if it be not a
Treaty, nothing that we can do will make it one. '
That, if this be not a Treaty, because it stipulotea
upon some of the reserved Legislative powers,
the Treaty power in our Constitution is a nnllity,
a void grant ; and that the nation, by the con-
struction of gentlemen, is stripped of all the
means of entering into Treaties with foreign na^
tions, except a Treaty of Peace, of a perfectly in-
efficient chancter. That, as ihare is a neeenity
of having a Treaty power oompetent to all the
objects in this Treaty somewhere in the Govern-
ment, it must be in the President and Senate;
and be had attempted to prove the mode in wtiich
gentlemen contended the Treaty power mijiht
operate through this House is either incompetent
He concluded some observations upon this point
by remarking that, if the Treaty power contend-
ed for by gentlemen be the true one, then, indeed,
is the nation fallen from that expliciiness of prin-
ciples and of national character that will debase
her in the world's eye ; for we can only have the
power of deceiving by an explicit Constitution,
which affords to toreiga nations the most plain
and intelligible grants oT power, but which admits
a domestic construction which renders void the
whole grant — a subterfuge from fair promises to
evade peiformBQce when inconvenient. This
cannot be the will of this virtuous country.
He said, in viewing this subject, sufficient at-
tention he iboufht had not been paid by those
who supported the resolution to the binding force
of the Law of Nations ; and attempts had been
made by a few gentlemen to give a popular air to
tbeii arguments. For himielf, he trusted to the
wisdom and virtue rather than to the passions of
the people of America. He did not believe that
they who separated the powers of the Qovern-
meni so accurately, would f«el gratified in a mea-
sure by which that separation of power is min-
gled by the assumption of this one branch.
He did not beLeve that enlightened frmmea
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OP R.]
Treaty mth Great Britain.
[Marob, 1706.
would feel ujr addition lo tbeir libertiea because
tbe House of Represeniatires might absorb pow-
ers whieb they had delegated to tbe other
braoches. They knew tbai the President waa
as legiumate a branch of iheir origiaal powers as
this House are, and that in the Senate tbey saw
but anoiber braoch from their origiual graut of
power. The people knew the value of naiioaal
r^utation for good faith; ibey know tbc' sanctity
of the Law of Nalions. They would not them'
selres violate it ; nor could they be pleased by ibr
adoption of a principle in this House, ereo though
the British House of Commons may aasert such
« principle, that sets DHiional faith at hazard;
that produced a solecism in the eye of (he
Law of Nations— a Treaty ratified and fully
eompiished, not obligatory, if those who
bound by it do not choose to execute it. That
Law of Nations they would insist on to be invio-
late as tbe great charter, not of one nation only,
but of the human 'race. That law, which, were
despotism to cover the face of human society
like a sweeping deluge, if preserved in some sa-
cred sanctuary, would, when made known again,
be the rallying point from which genins, and
trioIJam, and justice, might restore to man
rights and happiness, however obscured by time
and accident. Considering, then, as he did, the
resolution as predicated upoii a right in this
House, which ne deemed a violation of the Con-
stitution, as a measure preKoant with evil when
he compared it with that law, he should find an
excuse in the candor of gentlemen for having so
long trespassed upon their patience, ile would
no longer detain them than to thank them for their
indulgent attention.
March 24. — In Committee of the Whole on
Mr. Livinoston's resolution :
Mr. Bdck said, when he first rose in opposition
to this resolution it was from a consideration, that
as the idea of an impeachment was discarded,
these papers would apply to no other object
worthy the attention of the Legislature of a oa-
tion, unless to enable them to judge of the expe-
diency and merits of (he Treaty. As he had
ever understood tbe jurisdiction of that House not
10 extend to that object, it was solely on tnat
S round he founded his opposition ; therefore,
iroiwh the whole of his observations, he took
that lor fcraoted which he soon after found denied,
and which he presumed stilt remained in the
minds of maoy to be proved. But here he would
solemnly declare, that though he was a member
«f the Convention at the time the State of Ver-
mont adopted the Federal Constitution, though
he was acquainted in all parts of that State, and
had had frequent opportunities to converse with
those who were opposed to the Treaty, both is
that and the neighboring Slates, yet he had no
recollection of ever bavrng heard the idea sug-
gested, that the House, intheir Legislative capa-
city, had a riffbi to judge and determine upon the
expediency of a Treaty, until he came upon that
floor. But when this doctrine was avowed in
that House, and the gentlemen from Pennsylvania
Mid Virginia came forward to prove and luppori
it, he was borne away with the torrent of their
superior abilities, and lost in the wide maze of
wonder and astonishraeol. Their reasoning was
so forcible and impressive, that, at ^rst blush, their
arguments appeared unanswerable and conclusive.
He was struck with astonishment lo think thai
America, withallher boasted wisdom, hadnever un-
derstood the genuine and true meaning of her Con-
stitution until that moment. He was astonished to
think that he himself had been so totally mistaken
in a matter which had ever H];^earpd to him so ex-
tremely clear. This astanishibent,howeTer, stimu-
lated Id inquiry. He bad paid the closest atten-
tion to all those arguments. He had endeavored
to examine and weigh them with impartiality,
ami to investigate the subject with candor. If he
had to come to a wrong result, he hoped he should
again be set right before the debates closed.
Though the arguments had been very diffuse,
that is, whether this House possess a rig^bt of
check upon the Treaty-making right, or id the
language we hold, whether the Legistalive power
of this House extends to the right of checking the
Treaty-making power in any ease when that
power has been exercised within its Constitutional
bounds. To prove thi!i right, the British Consli-
lucion had been resorted to as analogous to their
own. A partial comparison had been made, argu-
ments drawn from thence, and the practice under
it, lo establish tbe point. It was painful to draw
comparisons when a description of the thing by
which they compared was so far from exciting
sensations of pleasure as to create disgust ; but
since he was drawn on to this ground, be hoped
tbe importance of the question, and the necessity
of (he case, would be received bh hisapoloeyj
and (hat he should be allowed to draw such fur-
ther comparisons as he should deem necessary, in
order to determine how far these arguments ourikt
to weich in this decision. He should therefore
proceed first to state, and then to prove, what be
conceived to be the principles and Constilnlion
of ihe Ciovernroent of Great Britain.
The first principle of tbeir Government is, ibat
every man, when he enters into society, surren-
ders or fives up a portion of hia natural libert]^ as
isideTBlion for ihe glorious privilege of bnng
governed ; and, as lo their Constitution, the great
mass or body o\ (be )>eopIe have none at alT; no
will, no rigbi no freedom, hut what they bold on
sufferance, and dependant on the will of their im-
perious masters. He wished it to be understood
here that be made a distinction between tbe great
mass or body of the people on the one hand, and
the King, with three estates of the realm; the
Lords spiritual and temporal, and the Commons,
m the other. Tbe latter consisting, perhaps, of
me fifty thousandth part of the nation have aCon-
titution, and that donstiintion it their will ; bat
he will of the great body and mass of the people
lonstitutes no part of it, other than an imperfect
choice in (heir masters. They are, therefore, oi
has been justly observed by a gentleman from
"~ i.'irk, in chains, and he would add ignomini-
.dbyGoogle
705
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
1796.]
TVmty with Great Britain.
[H.opR.
(nis ikTcry and bondage. To prove thta state-
mem, he woald now recur to the same authority
xddueed by the ^mleaian from PeuDs^lTBDia,
who w» first np in aiippott of the doctrme noir
adroGBted, viz: BlaektUme'a Gommeataries, Isi
volame, (age 125—
"Evtrj ipBn, when he onten into eoaietj, gives up
a put of hia nntanl hber^ bb the price of so ralu4t>le
■ parchue, and in eoiuidenUion of receiring the ad-
Tanlagp of matnul commerce. obUgca himMlf to confbnn
to thoK lam which the commanity haa thought proper
This is laid down as the first principle oT their
GoTemment, and he would now proceed to that
STt of their Constitution which relates to their
ing. who b said to be analogous to their Presi-
dent. In the same volume, pa^ 190, it is said :
•* The anprema BiaeatiTe power af Ihia KingdMn ia
voted bj am lawa in a angle peiaou, the King or
Queen ) Jbr It metten not to which ael tha Crawn
deacenda, bnt the peraon entitled to it, whether male or
female, ia immedialelj Tested with all the eougtu, lighta,
and prerogadTQ* of ^vereign powet."
Then, in enumerating hia Council^ he says ;
" The Parhament ii hia Coandl, all the Peen of Ute
leafan are b^ Imlh hia faereditaiy Counaallora, and that
the Judge! el the Courta are hia Connaellora.'*
In page 239, he mys :
<• Bat the princii^ Cotindl belonging to IhelQng ia
hia PriTj Council The Kbig'l will ia the aole conatitaent
of a Prii7 Coaoarilor, and thii tbo regnlalaa their num-
ber."
And in this chapt«r upon the King's preroga-
dre. he ascribes to him the attributes of absolute
■orerei^Dty, absolute perfection, and absolute im-
mortality ; and in detailing more particularly his
prerogatives, he says :
■■ The KiDf haa the aole power of a«aidiiig and re-
eerring Ambaaaadora, of making Tiealiea, of "if^^g
war and peace, ofgranting letters of marqaB and repiiaal,
and of grmntiog aafe conduct. He ii & coiutitueDt part
of the en[aeoie LagislatiTe power and haa on absolule
negative upon aD lawa which may be paued. He is
Commandn^n-Chief of all ihe fbruw of the Kingdom.
He ie eonaideted aa Ihe fountain of jualice, the fouotain
ot honor, aitdter of commerce, and, laatlj, the head and
■npreme Ootemor of the National Church."
Id short, there is no- attribute belonging to
Deity which Blackatoae does not ascribe to the
Eiog; and no right or pow« whatever which
(3od Almighty can possess, but by the British
Constitution is given to the King; nay, though
he may possess the heart of a vulture, the rage of
a lion, and the veuom of an aap, he is neverthe-
less bom their Kine, and iheir Coastitutional Qod.
Id the exercise of those powers, he creates all tiie
nobility and Peers of ibe realm, whose offices are
hereditary, and by virtue of which they and tbeii
posterity hold seats in PRtliament. He also creates
ais own Privy Counseilors and Prime Minister,
who also bave seau in Parliament; ami, ac su-
preme head of the Church, by his license .al9ne,
can an Archbishop or Bishop be elected or ap.^^
ented; and they likewise, when so elected. !.'>ld
seats in Parliament. And to all this might be
added, a patrimonial revenue belonging to the
Crawn, called (he King's Ordinary Revenue,
which had beea infinitely superior, and now h«
believed not inferior, to the whole revenue rf the
American nation, and which furnishes a private
purse, the Btrings of which are held by the King's
Prime Minister in Parliament, and is of more
sovereign sway than all the revenue of the nation
beside. But here we will leave the King for the
present, with all his aualogy to our President,
while he took a view of that pari of their Consti-
tulioa which relates to the Parliament and which
it is coQiended is so analogons to the American
BtackBtone, in bis chapter on the Parliament,
page 146, in speaking of the relations by which
men are connected toother, says, that " the moat
universal public relations by which men are eon-
□eeted together, is that of Government, namely,
as Qovernors and governed, or Magistrates and
people." He then goes on to show that as the
Qovernors or Magistrates mnit necessarily pos-
seas absolute and Qnlimited power the ereelleney
of the British Constitution CMiaists in their having
divided that supreme and absolute power, and
placed it in separate and distinct branches, "the
one Legislative, to wit; the E*arliaraent, consist-
ing of King, Lords, and Commons, the other
Executive, consisting of (he King ^one ;" and in
page 153, he says:
"The eonatitneat parti of a Parliament are the King's
majesty, aitttng there in hia rajal polilieal capacity, and
the three eatatea of die realm, tha Lorda ^rilnA and
Lords temporal, who ait together with the Khig m one
bouae, and the Commons, who ait by themadvea, in
another. And Uie King and tbeea'three «
Kjngn
tt-Jtmt! far, apon their^omlnK together, Ihe
wta diem either in peiaon oibj repreaentation,
without whjsh tium can be no beginning of a. Parlia-
ment, md he also haa alone the power of diaaolring
And then to show the reaaonableness of their
Constitution, and (he necessity of this division of
power. he says:
" It ia highly neoeesaiy for preserving the balance of
the Constitution, that the EiecntiTe power should be a
branch, diongh not the whole of the Legialative : The
total union of them, we bave seen, would be prodnctive
(rf tyranny. The total diajnnction of them, for the
present, would in the end produce the same efleCta, by
canaing that onion against which it aeemi to provide.
The Legisiatnie would soon become tyrannical, by
making continual eneroacluneiita, and gnLdually a>-
BUming to itself the rights of the Eiecutifs powet.
Thus the long Foiliiment of Charles the first, while it
acted in a Constitutional mumei with the rojal con-
ciirreDce, redreeaed many heavy grievsncea, and estab-
tiihed many aalutaiy laws, biit when the two hoiuea
aaaumed the power of legislation, in exclusion of the
royal authority, Ihey soon after asaumed likewise the
rema of the adminialntion, and in coiiaeqnence of t>>eir
nniled powera, overturned both Church and Stale, and
eatabliitied a woise oppresdon than any they {vetended
,db,Googlc
HISTORT OF CONORESS.
7V«al|f vUh Grtat Britain.
[Habcb, 1796.
Thiu, ID page
Puliament, he says
-Ithalli
160, speakiog of the poweta of
I uid nneoBtralUble ■nttMht; in Iba
MpMUng, TeriTing, and vxponnduig of lawi, concorning
nultan of ill poMbla denomiiuttian, eodMia>Uc«l at
tampoial, civil, militaiy, maritime, or criminaL Thia
boilig tha place where that abeoluM daapotic power,
nhidi mutf in all GoTenuoenU r««da ■onewhere, !■
inlnuteil, hj tha CooalitutiiHl of Ibeae Kingdoma, all
mi«clue& and 9rieT4iicei, operatloiu, and remediea, that
transcend the oidinaij coniae t^ iba lawi, ate within
the resell of thij eitnoidinaij tribunal, it can regulate
or new-model the ancceaaioD to the Crown, aa wai
done in the nrign of Henij the eighth, >nd WiOiun the
third ; it can alter the eatabliihed religion of the land,
aa done in a varietf of inatancea in the reign* of ICng
Honry the eighth tDdU* thtee children ; heandiange
Mid areata afreah the Conatitiition of the Kingdom and
tt ParliaiMnti tb«BaaliH, aa waa done b; the act of
tmioia and the a«*anl atatntaa fcr triemual Mid aepten-
nial elaetiona; it can, in iknt, doeverj thing Aat ie
not Datorall; impoaaihie, and tbenfare Htte bare not
aoniftad l» caU ita pwwer hf a figun rather too bold —
Iba oMnmatencB of FvliameBt. Trae it ia, that what
the Putiamaat doth, no aut^ri^ npan eartb on
From tfais authority he thought the Btatemenl
fully i>iD7ed thai the great mas* and body of (be
people of Great Britain bad no CoaatitntioQ, no
wii^ no political liberty or freedom, but what
they had on sufferance and solely dependajit on
the will of their maBtets; for it was found that
that absolute, unde&ued, uncualruUabli:, unJ de-
spotic po-wer, which Blaekiltme says is necessary
in all GbveromcDta to be lodged somewhere, ia in
&el lodged in, ot rathei assumed by the King as
(he Executive of the nuioa, nnd thai the mom
absolute, uadefiaed, uneontrolUbla aad despotic
power, is also anomed by the Parliament as the
LegislMure of the nation. The great hotly of the
people, have, therefsre, two aDsolate masters,
whoae powers eztead, as they had seen, to the di-
rection of all possible ob^ots ^atsoerer, both
ciril and sacriM], whose will is the very essence
of the Constitntion itself, which m»t neoessarily
be ckaneed aa tbM will shall change or vary.
It had been said, that the British Ci>Dt''
was made up of immemorial usages aai
it is true that it is known by usage .and custom,
but what are those utagea and customs? Thev
are neither more not leas than those things which
the Kiog and Parliament have been pteaaad to
do, in order to balance (hose two supreme powers
in suoh manner aa thejr, in their own diacretion,
have thonght it proper, in order to guard and pro-
tect the existence of both, thai one sbouM never
totally destroy the other, and share the whole boon
of power to itself alone. But Bladatimt sayr, that
(hose usages and customs can be altered and new
ones introduced ; but by whom ? Br the will of the
K;at body of the sovereign people? No; they
ve nosoveriegnty.nowUl. nothing lo do in this
grent business; but all this must and may bpdone
by the sovereign will aod pleasure of (he King,
who is considered an a Qod, and the three estates
of the realm, the Lords spiritual, the Lord* tem-
poral, and the Commons, who are considered
omnipotent; they can change the succession to
the Crown, tbey can change the estaMiahed reli-
gion of the land, they can chaiwe the Conatitntioa
of the Kingdom, and of Parnamenl itself, says
Bladatone, and can do evety thing that is not
□atuially impodibie.
He thought then they migfai rightly adopt the
jGDtiments of the English Bishop, quoted bv the
'nntleman from Psansylvaaia, as apnlicable to
the British Government, and he would here an-
swer thai gentleman, that the English Bishop
which he quoted, spwe not only the language of
a British ^ing, ol a British House of Lords, but
the K^ouine laogaage of a oommooer of Eneland
also ; for it is the true doctrine of the British Go-
vernment, in all its branches and departments,
from the Eiog on the Throne even down to the
corporal in tM army, anci from the Pitrlikment
down to the joslioe in the country, that the peofde
have nothing to do bot to obey ; passive obedience
and non-resistance is their potitTcat creed. And
if that gentleman meant by his inquiry to know
whether that House was worse off than a Briti^
House of Commons, because they da not possess
the same ODuipotent power ; beeause they could
Dot alter the election of their PBtADiirrwamlo-
goua to thesaeocaaion of the Crcwn ; beeauae tbey
could not alter the religion of the land, or the
Constitution of their country ; or, because they
are public servants, and not despotic masters ot
the people, then his answer was, that he humbly
cuuucived that they were worse off, and his prayer
to Qod was, that they otight forever remain so;
or, if the gentleman meant, by his inquiry, to
know if the people of America were worse off
than the people of Great Britain, because they
are sovereigns and not staves, because they have
public servants and not masters, (hen his answer
was the same, and hi* prayer the same. But,
that gentleidan, whose abililiee he admired, and
whose worth he esteemed, would never have
quoted the sentiments of an English Bishop as a
sarcum upon his observations h^d he known the
sentiments of his heai^ or understood the ideas
be meant to communicate ; nor would any of
those who have followed that gentleman's exam-
ple have treated him with the severity they had
done had they not totally mistaken his meaning.
He would therefore proceed to a conaidereiioo
of the priuciplea and Constitution of their own
Ghivemnient, hoping that he should be better
understood.
Blackalone, with all bis historical, political, and
l^(al knowledge, had no idea of a Government
that ever had or could exist like thBt</ the United
Slates. He says, that it is not to be supposed
that there ever was a time when men, from the
impulse of their reason, and a sense of their wants
and weakness, met together, entered into a com-
pact, and chose their Governor; and it seems
universally to have been the case, in regard to all
Governments heretofore found in the world, thai
they have l>een established by conquest, or founded
in nsnrpatioD, without asy original cdmpacl or
gentnl agreenMal of the pec^, preaoribiag and
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONOKESS.
Marcb, 179ftl
TWolywtU OnatBrOaia.
[H.orR.
d^baiog the nik* bv which thep would be go-
rerned. Bat it is lo M remembeied, that Bladt-
•fone wrote befote Ametica was bom into the
political world; that with her bitlh commeDced
a new era, and Ibat the principle! and CoDstiiu-
tioa or the Americaa Government are diaimilar
from all others that now are, or eT«r hare been
In exittence.
The first principle of the American Gkivera-
ment, said he, is, dutt nothing is surrendered, bat
all retained by the people; thlt the soTereign de-
spotic power, which BiatksUm* nya, is vested in
the King and Parliament br Ibe British Coniti-
tutioD, is with iv not vealed anrwhcTB, but is in-
hereai in the people; and it ii agreed bv every
one, tb«t the Constiration of the United State* is
the ezpiession of the sovereign will of the people
reduced to writiiis[, and now before m. If the
will of the people i* then the sovereign dpspotie
authority, that will is the authority ofthe United
States, a«d if the Coostibuioa is the eipressiotL
of that sovereign will, the several constiioied au-
thorities stand as the subwdioate offioeYs or agents
(rf the people, to eKecule their will, and derirfe all
their authority from the Comtitution.
How than, said he, does the prinoiple of our
Oorernment compare with that of Oieftt Bri-
tain 1 How does our Constitution eonip«re with
their Coniiitucioo I How doe* our Pkbbideiit
compare with dxeir Kiosi Their Eiiw stands
asihe CoDstitBiioiial (Od^aMl pnsnve (fedienee
and noit-rcMstattce ve due from the peojrfe to bia
sovereign will; but onr PaaaiDm sModi as a
subordinate officer or agent of the people j and
pasaire obedience and noo-rasistanee are one from
him to the will of the Mvereim people. How
does the Seaate compare wiln toe Home of
Lords, who ate hereditary, and, a«tiiw with the
Eio^, are a constitiwBt part of that aSioteta de-
spotic power, which Sladmlomtaeiuumi a« reat-
ing in Pailiament, whtn onr BeiwtotB are snbordi-
Date officers cboMa by the pet^tle, aeoountaUe to
themjUid placedaaacenlsto aetata the deapotic
and abaolole will of the peo^l And how docs
this Uousecoaiptre with theHoase of Commons,
when the Commoni are uaother cansdtacnt part
of that absolute despotic powerl How does onr
Legislalnre compare with a British Parliament,
when the will of that Parliaseni is the only
Constitution of that Kingdom, end which has
eompetent powef,-«Dd can change the suceessioa
to the Crown, the religioD of theland, the Consti-
tution iteelf i and, in ikon, can do evpryihing,
and no one can say, irky de yon ao t When, on
the other hand, our Legitlatiire derives all its ex-
isienee, and all the powen it can nosseas frcm the
Conktiioiion, which is the will or the people.
How iras it possible, that things should be
called anBlogOUB which were so lotalty different
in every pert and particle of themi To what
pnrpose, tiieik,arealf those arguments drawn from
the Constitution of Qreat Britain 7 To wbat pur-
pose all thoM nomecous volames of parliameniary
debates, joatnab, aitd reports, to prove the prac-
tice and prerogalivea of that deapotie Coart?
What have they to 4* with • CoBatiutitm, whieh
is the express will of the great body of the pewie
of America, prescribing rules for her own aut-
government / Have we so soon forgot the domi-
nation of that Government, nnder whose oppres-
sion we so lately groaned, and become so ena-
mored with its exc^lence as to lose sight of the
principles and Conslitalion of our own Qovern-
ment, and to assimilate ours to that of Gtfeat Bri-
tionl Compare onr Phbsidbnt to their Eingi
Our Senate to their House of Lords ! And we
ourselves assume the prerogatives of their House
of Commons!
This, be was snre, could not be obeying the.
vrill of the great body of the peo^e of America.
No, let us leave this pursuit, return to our own
CoostilutioD, lake that aaour gnide, and consider-
ing it a supreme law to us, and the only souroe
from whence we derive all our authority, let us
cotuidei the PaaeiDHNT, the Senate, and ow-
selvet,Bsthe iwents of the people, toeiecute their
will, expresseiT in the CoDstiiuiion, and without
destroymg its features, abrogating any of its partt
by strained eenstrnction, let lu talK tbat plain
meaning, which was, and now is, put upon it by
thoee who irtade it
But before he proceeded to a construction of
that ittttraraent, wnich be deemed a supreme law
in its nature, he would premise, that it was an
uoivBTsal and fixed rule in all Goorts and judieial
bodies, in construing all laws and all instinmeat*
whatever, never to do away an express and posi-
tive clause, or sentence, by implicatisn from an-
other elanse or sentence, which isnoiexpvesi and
positive to the same subject.- This ia a rule so
plain and so well establislied, and so teasonaUe
m itself, he thought the man who wonid deny it,
must have lost his senses, and be without hope^
for be presumed there was not one of his constt-
luents, even in the lowest grade, who ^er ml
upon an arbitiaiion to decide a dispute between
two of bis contending neighbors, but that would
say, it was absurd to coalradiet this position, and
that it was a rule as well known as that men
were to judge by the faculty of their reasmi.
Then, aid be, does not the Consiitntion, which
is B law to UB, declare, in as positive a manner aa
words can cxprMS it, that the Pbesiimnt "shall
have power, by and with the advice and consent
of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-
thirds of the Senators present concur, and that he
shall nominate, and, by and with the advice and
consent of the Senate, shall sppoiiii ambanadors,
other public ministers, and consuls 1"
Was it not clear that the people, when forming
this CoDstituiion, contemplated tbemselres as
standing in relation to foreirn nations, in the
same situation as one individual stands in relation
to aeolber ; and, therefore, that it was necessary
for them to make provision for holding negotia-
tions, making compacts and Treaties, which
should, when made, be mutually blading on both
nations, as contracts made between individuals are
binding on each individual? Is not the power of
making those national contract* expressly given
to tfaePaBeinawTand Senate 1 Is there a word
in the GonstiMtian which say*^ that aay t^M
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
*R.]
Trtab/wUh Grtat Britain.
[MucB,1796.
nun, or ael of m«D, shall have bdj; voice in this
basinets} Not a syllable of the kind. In what
light, then, most the PaEatoBNTand Senate con-
sider ihemselTes, when the; weie making the
present Tieaiy ; idust they not necessarily con-
sider ihemselres as ihe sole agents for the nation,
for this purpose, and must uoi Ihe nation with
whom thev were ctmtracling, consider them in
the same liehtl How, then, were thev to con-
duet themselres in this business? Woy, every
one, he thoozht, must say that they were to do
the same, as tliey, in their discretion, should sup-
pose the nation for whom they were contracting,
would do for itself^ were they all collected to-
gether, furnished With Ihe same infonnatioo, pos-
sessed of the same view of the subject, as (he
agents themselves were at the same time ; nup-
{KMing the nation to be eiercising their dispas-
sionate reason, and making the conirHCt for them-
selves. The Bgeotf^ then, must do that, which,
from a full view of the subject, and all eiisting
circnmstajQces, they judged best for the nation.
It there a man on this floor who will come for-
ward and say, chat the PnESivBNT and Senate
have not donethist That they have not done
what they judged was beat for the nation, under
ttU existing oircumslanoes, and what they judged
Ihe nation woold do themselves, poasessing the
same view of the subject? He bdieved no one
would assert this.
Then, at what time was this contract to receive
it* binding force? if the agents in making of it,
have keM within the limits of their agency, is it
Dt)t binoine on the principals the moment it is
concluded by the agents ? If be Were to appoint an
aceot 10 cimtractfor him, and give him his powei
of attorney for that purpose, and pursuant to that
pBwer he makei a contract, would it not be bind-
ing on him the moment it was completed by that
uent? He believed no one would deny this.
Was not, then, the Constitution a sufficient letter
of attorney to the PHEaiDBNTand Senate to make
Treaties?
But it is said that Treaties made under the au-
thority of the United Slates shall be the supreme
law of the land, and that for them to be made
under the authority of the United States, they
mutt have Ihe tanciion of that House, being a
constituent part of that authority.
If he comprehended the meaning of those gen-
tlemen who preached this doctrine, they had the
nme idea of the authority of the United States,
, as Bladatone had of that of Qreai Britain, that
is, as he had already proved, thai that absolute
despotic power, which, be siys. is necessary in all
Qovernmeuts to be lodged somewhere, is lodged
in the Fbesidbht, Senate, and House of Repte-
tentativea. .But he had already stated, (hat that
absolute despotic power, which fiJocJulone speaks
of, is inherent in the people. Will ihose gentle-
men deny this HtatementT If they will, he was
willing they should go where they could ecjoy
despotic power ; but he was □□! willing that the
Pbebident, Senate, and House of Representa-
tives, should be changed into King, Lords, imd
CoBimoni, to gratify their feelings. He pia
sumed, however, that this position would not be
denied, but that it would be agreed, thai the will
of the people was the only absolute despotic
power in our Qovenment; that the Constitution
the expression of that will, and he thoughl it
t then necesMrily follow, that a Treaty made
by the sole agents mentioned in the Constitution,
must be a Treaty made under all the authority oT
the United States that exists for that purpose,
and therefore that the present Treaty received
all its binding force, it ever can have (if it be
'^ itiiutional) upon the two IUltion^ from the
ent of its ratification, and that it is now a
law conformable to ihe express declaration of the
Constitation ; and that not only the JadEes of the
several Courts, but every other officer of Grovern-
ment, and they themselves were to regard it as
such ; nothing that they can do will give any ad-
ditional foree, or create any new oblisatioD.
But it is said, that by another clause in the
CoDSlitution " No money shall be drawn from
the Treasury but in consequence of appropria-
tions made by law;" that Treaties may slipulate
for the paymeui of money, and this House must,
therefore, necessarily become judges when they
t called upon to appropriate for that purpose.
tt us contrast this clause of Ihe Constitution
ith the one which says the PRBSinEiiT and SeD-
t shall make Treaties. Was there a word ia
this clause about appropriations meittioned about
Treaties ? No. not a word. Shall we, then, by
implication ana construction, drawn from a clanse
not positive to the same subject, Qx a meaning
which shall do awav a positive and direct clause
to that subject! This tsa complete violation of
the mle of construction laid down,and pervertiug
the order of reason.
But gentlemen do not pretend to carry their
ideas quite so lu as this, and they say they do
not contend for the power of making Treaties,
bnt for. a cooperative power in carrying them
itoeflect, Ota negativepower to check ihemwhen
_j bad as that, tnev ought not to be carried into
effect. In his miiia it amounted to neither more
nor less iban this, that they eUim a right, not to
make Treaties, but to break them, when they are
not agreeable to their taste.
On this ground, it is asked with an asioaishiDg
air of assurance, can Treaties repeal laws, or laws
repeal Treaties ? and if they can do neither, how
is it pessible they sfaoold both exist at the nme
time, and operate upon the same objects, while
they are opposed to each othetl This is a knotty
Eoint ; biK he would attempt to answer it. He
ad no idea ol a Treaty repealing a law, or a Uv
repealing a Treaty, accurately speaking, but he
bad a very clear idea, that a Treaty, in its nature
abrogates and does away all pre-existing laws of
both nations making it, which itand in opposition
to the Treaty ; and that opposing laws executed
after a Treaty made, may break and violate the
Treaty, and commit Ihe plighted faith of the na>
tion pledged in the most solemn manner.
To BimpHf]r the idea^ As an independent
moral agent, his will was the sovereign potver by
which he waa tcK regulate all hii moral actioiw.
;dbvG00gle
HISTOHT OB OONOREBS.
Treaty with' Great Britain.
[H-c
Id tlu exercise oC this power, he hftd a ri^t t
preieribe such lules for ttie regulstioa of hia ow
actioHs as he j)leBse(Iihia.Deigahor bax the «i
The tnles, then, which they preactibe, are law*
reKulating their aclioos, and applyjas to them-
selves indej^ieiuleiitly ot each olber. If it is ftfund,
bjr their daily iotercourae, thai the rules and re^u-
lalioDa, thus prescribed, iBterfere or clash with
each other, this lays foundalioo for camDromise
or treaty between theiD. Sappose, ibeo, ihey
meet, and eater into mutual aKrecmeatjao to regu-
late ibeir conduct bv mutual coDceisiona, as not
lo inleifere with each other, does not this agree-
ment, in the very nature of it, atHogate and do
away those regulaiioDs which he bad antecedent'
ty pra>crtbed to bimwif, and which intarfered
with his neigiibor'B interest? or ir he persiii in
the doing of tlioie tbtosE which he had stipulated
he would not do, would it not be a violation and
breach of his contract or treaty with his neigh-
bor? And does it not operate the same on his
neighbor's part, if he shall persist in the doing ai
those tbingi which interfered with hik intetcst,
and whidi he agreed he would not do 1
Will it be denied that Apaerica, a> an inde-
peadent and sovereien nation, stands in the same
rdation to Great Britain as another sovereign
and independent nation, aa one individual stands
in relation to aneiber 1 He could conceive of no
diSerence but this, tbal in Gresl Britain the
King, Lords, and Coumons, asauiiie the right of
being the great corpOTation, or body politk! of the
nation, in whom is lodged absolute and despotic
power, «Dd therefor^ set up ibeir will as [be
itaDdard by wbioh lo prescribe ail the rules for
the regalatim of themselves and their slaves.
But America standi a complete moral pertoa ;
as the will of the moral agent is the supreme
power which tagulates all his moral actions, so ii
ibc conjoint and united will of the great mass
and body of the people of America, tbe supreme
Ewer which regulates all her political actions,
the exercise of this supreme power, she pio-
■ctibes by her agents (the L^ii^ture^ all those
rules by which to regulate her own acitona, as an
independ^t and soreteign nation, and those rules
are, in the inoat strict sense, laws by which each
individual of the cDTamnaitv are bound ; but can
tbtne rtdes extend lo control the actions of other
independent natiuos, any more than the rules he
prescribed for iha regalatian of his conduct can
extend to control iha actions of his neighbor 7
Then, said he, let us take a view of the actual
sitoatian we were in with respect to Great Bri-
tain previous lo this Treaty. Did not she claim
a rigki to almost every port in the wsrld to which
wecouJdearryou commerced and could America
claim any property, other than by stipulation, to
a single port in the world more than twenty
leagues from ber own shore 1 Look into the
de&iiiive Treaty of Peace witji Great Britain,
and he ibonsht every one must grant ibis. Had
not Britain, tnen,Bianation,«n undoubted right to
i mpoae such du tits upon onr voaaelt aa she pwaaed.
4th Coi».— 24
when trading to her ports'? It cannot be denied,
and she carried the exercise of this right so far aa
to prohibit oar trade and capture oar vessels when
going to those ports over which she claimed the
rirfit of control.
He would now asic, if they, by legislation, could
restrain those proc eed lags of hers T He answered,
No. They might legislate to eternity, and war or
Treatjr must finally decide the dispute. We
have chosen the latter, and in it ib^ have stipu-
lated that ihey will not capture our vessels; that
they will impose no higher duties on our vessels
in their ports than what they impose on all other
aations ; and that Ihey will surrender np the
Western, posts. We, on bur part, have stipulated
that we will lay no higher duties on tbeir vessels
and goods in oui ports than we do upon the ves-
sels and goods of all other nations; and that we
will pay the debts due to certain of their subjecls,
where, by the interpooition of cur Government,
they liave been and now are totally prevented
from collecting them. New, he would aak,
whetheis if Britain ^oold take our vessels, lay
higher duties on them than she has stipulated,
or shiAild not surrender the poets at tbe time,
without anything further done in regard to the
Treaty, if itwoi^d not be a breach and violatios
of it on her part? Is there a man here who
Id not cry out, faithless nation I If, then, we
execute thoae laws which now stand in oppo-
n to the Treaty, on our partner refuse to pass
those necessary Isws to fulfil tne stipulation ou
part, doea not the charge retort on u> 1
lUt, said be, are we sent here to violate the
faith of the nation, and without declaring war on
part, or putting ourselves in a slate of de-
fence, are w« to give a.jnsiiBable pretext to Gireat
Britain to sweep our whole commerce at one
blow, and plunge the nation Into an immediate
wtu, without any preparation whatever? If we
are, do we want those papers foe thai purpose?
But he bad a different idea of their duty ; he took
it they were sent there to prescribe such laws
and regulations as are necessary for the commu-
nity, and which do not depend on stipulations
ith otiier independent nations.
Bat, it ban been said, shall we make appropria-
ma of money, without acting as free agents?
e wouldanswerthisbyaootberquesiion. Canwe
ive an 8geQcy,un]esswearaume the power, where
the people have not, by tbe Constitution, appoint-
ed us their agents ? He would answer, mtlhei,
that we have the same agency as in appropnaling
money for the PneaiDGNT's salary, with tne only
difference, that should they withhold appropria-
tions, there the coosequenee could not be so very
important ; but if they withhold appropriations
when necessary to fulfil a Treaty, they strike a
deadly blow, by violating, the &ith of the nation.
plunging them into ail the horrors of war, ana
tbe blood of thousands might be chargeable upon
Much had been said, by a gentleman from Vir-
ginia, about the supri-me, unlimited and undefined
powenr of tbe PaeaiDENT, and the coKipe rati ve
and co-ordinaie powers of that House. la an-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OF R.]
Trtatj/ vith Ortai Briiaiit.
[B£abcb, 1796.
swer to those ingraiou* otwerTitions, he had to
t*j, that that gentleiBkD left our own Consti-
tution, nnd theorized extrcineir well upon the
CoDEtiiutioa of Oreal firitain. But he coofetsed
he had no jiut ideas of two separate and distinct
supreme powers in our Ooremment ; but if they
were to adopt the principles of the British Con-
stitution, to be consistent, they .must balance the
Kwen as they have done ; make the office of our
lEBiDENT hereditary, give tum a craatire power
(0 make nobles, privy counsellon, archbishops,
and bishops, and a prime minister ; and let them
constitute one-half of the Legislature, and add to
that ^wer a patrimonial rerroae, and let him
have a priTate purse for his prime minislrr to use
in this House, and then he may stand some chance
to maintain hia power. But if this is a contest
about power, suppose they past this resolution ;
call for the papers, and if the PsEstDEKT should
refuse to deliver them, and say it was an infringe-
■aelll upon his prerogative, an encroachment upon
his «ipr«tae power, whioh was sacred, then would
J say he talked as much like a hauiibty British
Ein^, as they all along bad been talking like an
omnipotent British Parliament; andhe wasnotat
Ji loss to know how the contest would end ; for it
would be only for them to proscribe him as a des-
pot, grasping at all power, blow tio the popular re-
sentment, and the same blind zeal and false patri-
otism which had led to the burning in effigy mem-
bers^f that House, of the Sauale, and the Minis-
ter who UM^otiated ibis Treaty, would lead him
to the scaflold, and not all his well-«BrDed glory,
nor all his god-like Tirtuea, would save his life
4weniy-^ourliours. But if be bad a just idea of
ibat great and good man, he would bold a very
different language. Little would he ray about his
supreme powers or absolute prerogatives ; but he
bought he might justly say, that, by the Consti-
tution, from whence all power was derived, be,
' with the Senate, were ^aced as the sole agents of
the nation for making Treaties, and he the depo-
sits for those papers. That we were not the
agents of the nation to interfere in this business;
that we were therefore assuming power not dele-
Eled to us ; Tiolating the Constitution ; and that
could not, consiitentty with the trust reposed in
him, resign those papers to onr lawless demands.
But it ^a« been said, that'if the PaEaiDENT and
Senate possessed this uncontrollable power to make
Treaties, they might bind up the whole Legisla-
tive power ; thej might even annihilate it, and
substitute an insignificant Indian tribe as a Legis-
lature for the nation, and that we had not even a
shadow of liberty left.
[s it possible that gentlemen who give them-
selves time to think and explore the ground they
go over, should be thas extravagant? Is it not
agreed by all, that if a Treaty violates the Con-
stitution, it is void in itself? Does not the Con-
stitution particularly point out bow the Legisla-
ture shall be formed ; what shall be the qualifica-
tions of its members, and how they shall be elect-
ed? Does it not point out, with the same preci-
sion,how cacb other <■"-" " "
shall be constituted ■
not mark out the poweraandlimitsof each? Does
it not guaranty to each State its republican form
of OoTernmeoi ; and is not the right of altering
or creatinff anew tbe Coosiitution reserved to the
people? Look to the Constitntion, and it will be
found that the Pbesident, Senate, and ibis House,
cannot, with all their combined powers, interfere ,
with the pergonal security, peiaonal liberty, oi
private property of the people, iinless in raisinjg '
taxes, and tne mode in which that is to be done b
directed by the Constitution. Yet it is said we
have not the shadow of liberty left, when the
whole combined powers of the Federal GoTcrn-
ment cannot interfere to say what compenntion I
shall have for false imprisonment, detaming my
character, or trespassing upon my person or prop-
From tbe obserrations that have been made, be
thought himself instifiaUe is tracing thoae extra-
vagant ideas, and this extraordinary divenily of
opinion, to its source.
It was not Ions since, said Mr. B., tb«r were
groaning nnder the oppressions of Great Britain,
and they bad to wade tfaroneh fields of blood to
throw off her cruel power. The indignation with
which the? were then juaily fired, thon|^ it ha*
been smottiered, is not extinct ; though they, as in-
dividuals, are noble, generous, just, and hiunan^
yet, as a nation, consisting of King, Lords, and
Commons, possessed with that absolute despotic
power he nad described, tbey are imperious,
haughty, and cmel, and, riding triumphant mis-
tress of the seas, they, intuit all nations c4 tbe
world. They had lately felt their insults, and in
many cases their influence, and even cruelty.
This, said he, has raised afresh our indignation.
On the other hand, we bfhold Franec, our gene-
rous ally, who has participated in the struggle, and
fought fay our side in the canse of liberty, now
struralinginherturnforlhesaaie noble prize. We
see BntainwieldtDgtheiyrannicsword to strike her
dead in the struggle. While our hearts swell with'
sympathetic emotions for France, our indienation
is carried to a degree of madness against Britain;
we cry out for the Spirit of Seventy-fiiz ; are for
plunging into the war to ma)te a common cause
with France, to extirpate tyradts from the earth.
If our hand is stayedj the picture which we are
beholding is so strtHig, and tne impressions so for-
cible upon the mind, that when we tnrn our efet
from Britain to America, we behold a King in
our FHEaioENT, and a House of Lorda ia our Se-
nate ; we imagine they are in league with des-
pots, and are ready to fall on and wreak our Ten-
geaoce on them.
These, he imagined, were the formidable rocks
of Seylla. on the one hand, and Charybdis on th«
other, which have endangered our country. And
had there been any man at the hehn of our politi-
cnl ship who posseswd a less share of firm patri-
otic prudence, or a less share of the unbounded
love and confidence of the people than our present
Executive, God only knows where we should
have landed I Whether we should not, ere now,
have been plunged in alt ihe horrors of foreign
and domeatic war ; go iltolinea going, blood itreftnu
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
UiacH, 1796.]
iWaty vitk Gnat Britain.
IDE in all our public places, and our country ex-
hiMtiag a complete counterpart to the Preooh re-
rolutioQ ; with this shocking differehce only, (hat,
M they have cdled forth the whole energy of bu'
man nBtare, and gireo & loose rein to alt the TiDdic-
tiTeaDdturbDlentpaB!ions,to cut down and destroy
real tyrants, despots, traitors, and minions, we, in
our blind zeal, miglit have been executing the
same Tengeance npoo our ideal ones, the mere
agents and faithful serTants of the people.
But, to conclude, if the will of the people is the
only soTereigo power in our Qovernment; if the
Constitution is tbe expression of that will ; if that
Constitution has made the President and Senate
tbe sole agents for mabing Treaties, then we have
natbiiig to do in calling for papers to judge of
their expedienejr or merits, This resolution must,
theiij be a violation of the Constitution, and should
he give his Toice to tbe passing of it, America,
when she shall return to that ealm repose that she
enjoyed when the Constitution was formed, mivbt
execrate his name, and gtmeraiions, yet to rise,
might join in the execration.
Mr. OoonaicH said, thai frequent assertionshad
been made in debate that no Conslilutional ques-
tion was involved in the present resolution. To
attempt a refutation of inat opinion would be
time miaspent. Those matters merely colorable
or of little importance, which were introduced
at the commencement of the discussion, hare
been lost in the consideration of a fundamental
prineiplp of tbe Oorernmenf. Every speaker's
examole, and the uncommon exertion of talents
they had witnessed, evince that to be tbe case.
What are the Constitutional powers of the Exe-
cutive, and what ate those of this House, relative
to Treaties, are qnestions which we must have
met in tbe course of business, and probahty they
could not have been presented in any shape less
exceptionable than under this motion. They are
•officiently pointed for our deliberations, and now
are placed conspicuously before the public for
temperate disquisition and determination. The
people are the source of power. One of their first
and essential rights is, to make and amend their
systems of Qoveroment. Ours, formed by the
dictates of an enlightened wisdom, and a spirit of
conciliation, owes its ratiflcatioo to the good sense
of the people, and [heir inviolable attachment to
the Union. It is oar duty conscientiously to ex-
ponoil their written compact, and faithfully to ad-
minister tbe power it confides to us.
In aupporl of tbe motion, two principles are
strenuously maintaioed : one, that this House has
aco-operatiTepower,with the President and Sen-
ale, over Treaties embraeing Legislative objects ;
another, that there results to the House a right tc
decide on the merits' of the Treaty, to which tbe
papers refer, from the power Congress have rela-
tive to appropriations of money.
Tbe whole argument in favor of tbe first propo-
sition itself, is, that this House possesses a eon-
(rolling power over some Treaties, because they
embrace objecta npon which Congress may legis-
late. He admitted that tbeae two powers, so otleD
mfotioned, tbe Treaty and Legislative powers, do
act on some of tbe same objects. Probably every
object embraced by the former wouldj on being
critically analyzed, be found to be a subject of the
latter. Iiegislatire authority is the basis i^all
authority in Government. Both these powers are
acknowledged to be essential to the interests of
Governmeoi, not merely to their perfection, but
also to their protection and existence. One acts
by the coercion of statotes within the territorial
limits of a nation ; the other comes to its aid where
it is incompetent to act, and by compact regulates
the reciprocal concerns and relations of independ-
ent sovereignties.
It is incident to every authority in well-oreaD'
ized Governments to possess the wliole sumect
over which it must necessarily operate. What
the Legislative authority cannot accomplish dis-
tinctly by itself, the Treaty-makincr power, in all
cases proper for it* managementj must effect. If
the Legislature, by the organization of tbe powers
of a Government, is admitted to a participation in
arranging its concerns, and making Treaties with
foreign nations, it does not act in its approjiriate
capacity as a Legislature, but assumes tne distinct
office of a Treaty power. It is true, indeed, the
sole right of pledging the public &ith may be as-
signed to the L^isliiure ; the Legislature then
becomes the Treaty ^ower. If it be partially as-
signed, in that case the Leinslature becomes par-
tially the Treaty power. To pursue the subject
one step farther : this power may be assi^ed
wholly or partially to one branch of the L^isla-
ture. lu these cases, from its nature and omces,
it would be a Treaty, and not a Legislative power.
The last lupposed cttse is tbe actual case of the
Senate under our Constitution. In short, though
these powers assume some of tfae rame objects,
yet, from their difierent functions and modes of
operation, tbey are to be considered as distinct.
Judicial and Executive power act on tbe same ob-
jects as the Legislative ; the former declares the
will of the Legislature, as applicable to a specific
; the latter executes that will. These in-
:es, though not exactly parallel in all partica-
lars to the case in question, may serve to illustrate
the doctrine.
The primary end ofTreaties, or the chief motive
for making them, are to protect aod advance oiu
nationaUnterests,and those of our citizens inforeign
countries; to guard ourselves against agsressions
within our jurisdiction or elsewhere. Other na-
tions are actuated by the same views in respect
to us. Hence, effectually to consult and provide
for our own interests, the Treaty power must ne-
cessarily possess the right of arranging and i^gu-
laling by compact some of the affairs of internal
policy. The progress of civilization and of inter*
course between nations, renders their interests re-
ciprocal. They can be permanently advanced
and protected only by reciprocity of terms. To
secure our own rights, we must secure the rights
of others. To obtain privileges we must grant
privileges.
The only reason assigned why this House has
a co-operative power with the PitEaiDEifT and
Senate over Treaties, being because Treaties of
.dbyGougle
HISTOBY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R-]
TYeatp leith Ortat Britai*.
[M^iCB, 179ft
the descriptioD over which ibis ciMjperatire power
iM claimea to operate do affect Legiilatire objects;
an explanaiioii of the diitinct offices and fuuctioDs,
together with the' incident that belong to these
lespeclive powers, has beea deemed to afford a
sufficient answer to this reason. That the hegis'
laiire power merely by the force of its authority
to make slatutn in respect to ceitaiu ob^ecls over
which the Treaty power acts by way of compact,
does not draw to itself an exclusive power to
make Tfeaties, relative to those objects, oor
thereby parcel out ot limit the power to make
Treaties, or claim a co-operalion with it, when
vested io a distiocc department. No such cod-
atruction arises fairly out of the nature of these
two powers, but they are to be distinguished
by the appropriate duties assigned to (hem re-
spectively, and the different modifications under
which tney operate. If the construction con-
tended for CRQ Oe admitted. how«re the respective
rights of these elementary powers m Oovern-
meot to be determined 7 Placed in a «tate of col- .
lisun at least, if not orhosiiliiv, in the body politic,
how are we to deeienate waich has the right of
spoiling or limiting the other 1 Where do its in-
roads begin ; how far extend, or what are the fit
occasions for its warfare ; or, are both to act offen-
sively and defcDsively like opposing powers') Did
noE ttie framers of iha Coostitution know the na-
ture of these two authorities, their respective and
relative offices ? If so, must we not suppose they .
desicned them to act separately ^d independently
in their , particular spheres, exclusively and con-
clusively performing their functions 1 Or, is it
more rational to suppose thai they instituted these
two authorities, and left them to lan^e at random
until they couid find their true destiny from the
custom of some foreign country ? To suppose the
latter is to reflect on those wise patriots the high-
est disgrace, Io hold up our moch admired system
to our ciiizeno, and the world, as a system incor-
porating in itself the principles of incessant war-
fare between the ffreat departments. It is to mar
all its beauty and harmony.
A critical exataioation of the expressions in the
Constitution, and a sacred regard to their plain
import, will leave no room for construction ot con-
jecture' on this point.
To interpret words was not a grateful task, it
afforded no scope for the powers of imagination.
But observing how attentively Judges, in constru-
ing written instruments and statutes, regarded the
expressions, and how little latitude they allowed
to their inventive facuilies, or their own fancies
about policy or expediency, be hoped be should
he pardaned for remarking that theirexamplebad
not been suflictenlly imitated in the discussion of
this Constitutional question. He would venture
even at this late hour of the debate to ask the atten-
tion of the Committee to the parts of the Conaii-
lucion connected with the present subject, and to
mark and collect the precise meaning of the terms
or phrases used.
They are tamillar to the Committee. " He shall
have power, by and with the advice and consent
of the Senate, to make Treatiea, provided Iwo-
tbirds of the Senate preaent eoaour." Who is to
make Treaties "^ The pREainsNT. "ByaiHlwith
the advice and consent of the Senate, provided
tWD-thirda of the Senators present concur." No
Treaty can be made without the advice and con-
sent of the Senate. There must be a quorum of
Senators present to constitute a Senate, and two-
thirds of the Senators present must concur in the
advice and consent made essential to the ratifica-
lion of a Treatv. The Puesidbut is not pe-
remptorily bound to conclude a Treaty, though
the advice and consent of the Senate be given
thereto. The PBEeinEnr'a positive ftct is neces-
sary i and he can withhold it in case his judgment
dictates that to be his duty. In what view are the
Senate to be considered ? As a check on the Pbb-
sinENT to prevent bad Treaties and further good
ones; as a controlling, negative, and constnuoing
power, or as a co-operative power. Their power
in this respect i» analagons to their other powers
where they act on Executive business; instance
the nomination and appoii^iment of the officers of
Government. The next word to be noted is
"make." In common use it denotes a full com-
pletion of the act to be done i when applied to
legal instruments its signification is the same.
Sitch is its signification here, a perfect and conclu-
sive act. It has been often observed, that to ex-
pound the Conslilution fairly we must compare
Its parts toeelher. The rule is a good one. T«
determine the use or sense of words, we resort to
clauses of the ioiirument where (he same word is
used relative (o the same subject. This word
twice occurs in the sixth article, where we all
agree that the siffDification is the same an before
taentioned— a perfect act. Power to make Tren-
ties ; Treaties made, and Treaties that shall be
made, all import a conclusive act done or to be
Gentlemen who support the motion content
themselves with asserting the meaning of the
whole sentence without defining precisely the sig-
nification of the terms., This nas aided them to
make out systems not warranted by a just inter-
pretatioD of the words. Often has it been reite-
rated in favor of the resolution, that the Pbbsi-
OENT and Senate are empowered eonclusively to
make some Treaties, but are mere organs to form
others. How are the Senate organs to form Tree-
ties? Can they originate them, or form stipula-
tions'? Are they to aci jointly with the pRsai-
DENT in those respects? They possess no such
authority. When a Treaty is formed and placed
by the Phbsidrnt before the Senate it is inchoate.
And what is the effect of the advice and consent
of two-thirds of the Senators for its ratification 7
Isnoihingmoreimpl led than thai theinchoateslipU-
lations on which they have deliberated, shall re-
main inchoate till a majority of the Senate, in
their Legislative capacity, de libera Ip again on the
subject ; and, by a majority only, either reject or
confirm (he iochoale act they had before, by (be
concurrence of Iwo-thtrds, consented should be
formed 1 On ihe construction assumed by gentle-
men in support of the co-operative power of the
House, and on which iheir whole sjrstem rests
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
MfcHOH,1796.;]
■Treaty with Onat BrOain.
two different sigDificattODB are ^vea up to the
word " make" in (his claine of lEe Constitution ;
One denoting a perfect and conclusive act; ano-
llier an lachoate act. For the purpose of illus-
traikoff thii part of the anbiect, admit that the
seTBral ipectned articles of Legislative jariadic-
tion are excepted from the Treaty power, or that
the Treaty power is thereby limited so that it
cannot act on ihem; bow is it reconcilable with
the fair interpretation of words, thaf the term
" make" should take to itself different meanings ;
that it denotes a thing actually complete, and a
thing incomplete; that by it a limited and ua-
limited authority is granted 1 Is not the power of
the PREBinGNT, relative to Treaties, sinele and
tmiform, whatever objects it con atttution ally em-
braces, or Dnder whatever limilationa it acts 1
Can it be parcelled oat, and over one set of sub-
jects exert a perfect authority, and over others
only a limited one ? 8tich conatruction perverts
the meaning of the terms. What are Treaties 1
Compacts between sovereign nations, relative to
ncKce, wbr, commerce, ana security, originating
1 their consent, and from thence deriving their
make Treaties is nothing more or leas than a
authority to pledge the public faith relative to
those objects. The sixth article has been often
eommented on : " This Constitution, and the laws
of ihe United States, which shall be made in pur-
•uince thereof, and all Treaties made, or which
shall be made, under the authority of the United
fliates, shall be the supreme law of the land."
" Under the authority or the United St&tes." An
anthority of the United Statea empowered lO
Blake Treaties is intended. The PtteeroGNT, with
the advice and consent of the Benate, is tbe only
authority named in the Constitution lor that pur^
poae. Two kinds of Treaties are contemplated.
Treaties made underthe Confederation, andTrea-
ties to be made by the pReainENT and Senate.
The words authority of the United States are in-
serted as comprehensive terms, includiogj without
«ircumlocutioD both description of Treaties. Law
of the laud ; A rale of conduct for citizens and
aabjects within our jarisdictioti, and for regulating
all ihinga therein to which the rule relates. The
dectaiative part of the sentence ends ; what fol-
lows is by way of caution or express injunction.
IHiere is no occasion to dwell longer on it. A
-clause in the third article, section two, is explicit:
" That the judicial power sWl extend to all cases
in law or equity arising uader this Constitation —
the laws of the United Stales, and Treaties made,
or which shall be nlade, under their authority."
A power distinct and separate from the other
powers institated in the Constitution ; an authority
to pledge the national faith is, in express terms,
inven to the PHESinEKT, inder the control of the
Senate. Its existence does not admit of donbt;
abd the deaien of its institution was, that it should
be exerciaea on fit occasions. No exception is
made, in respect to its objects, nor any limitation
■xpresaly provided; no special Treaty-making
power IS instituted.
ConatructlTe reasming in anpport of the co-
operative power ofthb House cannot be allowed.
1st. Because the express terms of the Constitu-
ration of the Treaty power. The
io do tile final act; and when done the Treaty
becomes a law, to be placed among the laws,
pleadable as such, and the judicial power is ex-
pressly extended to all cases, in law or equity,
arising under Treatiea. He believed that this was
peculiar to our Constitation. Treaties in other
countries, by binding the pQblJc faith, impose an
obliffation; on the body politic to provide laws ;
with us, so far as they are perfect, and their pro-
visions can execute themselves, they need no aux-
iliary laws. If impcTfect and destitute of neces-
sary provisions, like other laws in themselves im-
perfect, they require further laws. Under the
forms of our Qovernment the Legislative and
Execurire functions cannot act in unison directly
on a Treaty to confirm it. A simple vote of one
branch gives no additional force to a Treaty ;
the Phesident'b affirmative and positive act is
necessary. A concurrence of tWo-thirds of the
Senators present is requisite. In legislation, the
affirmative act of the Presidbm-p is not made es-
sential ; a majority of the Senate is sufficieat.
Laws must originate in one of the Houses of Con-
gress. Auxiliary taws have no direct eSect on
the Treaty itself. 2d. Because a check, or co-
operative power, viz., the concurrence of two-
thirds of tne Senators present, is expressly pro-
vided to restrain the Treaty power in the oands
□f the Fn^BiDEHT. Is it not fullv evident that the
framers of the Constitution ana the people have
considered this subject, and declared itieir will ia
respect to a check? And shall we, in contradlc'
tion to that declaration, from remote and uncer-
tain construction, multiply checks?
Qrant we may amuse ourselves in researches
for an extension of onr powers by construction
and conjecture, he apprehended that they should
at last find ibemaelves in a delusive dream.
So far as He understood the arguments in favor
of a co-operative power on the part of the House,
they presented themselves in these two points of
view:
1. That all Legislative objects specified in the
eighth section of the first article or the Constiln-
tion are excepted out of the Treaty power.
2. That Legislative jurisdiction over certain
objects limits the Treaty power so far only as that
it cannot conclusively make Treaties relative to
those objects, and thereby a controlling power i»
vested in Congress.
He imagined that the first proposition was not
true in point of fact. Many reasons had been of-
fered to show that Legislative objects were not
excepted from the Treaty power, merely because
they were Legislative objects. He trould endea-
vor to show that they were not excepted merely
because the^ were enumerated. It is true that a
special limits a general power, without expres*
words of limitation ; but the special must be of
the same kind as Ihe general power. Objects em-
braced by a general power may be withdrawn
from it by being expressly vested In a special
;dbvG00gle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-opEL]
TWaly viih Great BrttatH.
[Mabch, 179&
pairer of like kind, though no lermsof exception
ate used. To explain: If the ConsiitutioD had
conuined a special Treaty power, vested in a dif-
ferent organ from the Pbesidbnt. to acton Le-
E'slaiive objects, thea the general power wonld
i»e been limited without a reatrictiTe or except-
ive cause. All that is left to implication in that
case is, to presume that the special is carved out
of [he general power. The presumption is so ob-
vious as to become irresistible. Implication is
not to be exjeuded further, for an obvious reason.
The intent to vest a general power is expressly
declared by its being expressly vested. No spe-
cial power can be carved out of it, or a limitalion
be made on its exercise, except sach intent also
be expressly declared. An institution of a spe-
cial power IS a declaration of such intent. The
evidence of a limitation upon the frant is of the
same nature as the evidence by which the grant
was made. Legislative power does oot possess
the essential capacities and attributes of the Trea-
ty power. B)r the Constitution they are contem-
lilated as distinct authorities. We shall act ar-
oitrarily to commix them.
By recurring to the Constitution we shall find
(he reason why these several articles are specified.
The Legislative body is organized and defined by
the first article of the Constitution. The power
of legislation is between the General and State
Governments — all Legislative power herein grant-
ed. By these words the grant is made and the
leservation expressed. The Legislative
of the General Goveroment are defined _.. .__
eighth section of the first article. The design of
this definition was to ascertain the limits of juris-
diction between the General and State Legisli
tures. The cinth section of the first article cot
tains certain limitations upon some of the powers
Tested by the eighth section, and a denial of other
powers, which might otherwise he assumed by
implication. The tenth section contains a. denial
of other powers, to prevent disputes whiclj might
■rise respecting a supposed jurisdiction between
the General and State Governments on the sub-
jects therein mentioned. The complexity of thi
Government has rendered this specific deSnitioi
of its power necessary. An enumeration of the
particular subjects of legislation, in the eighth
Section of the first articlcj so often adverted to, is
to ascertain the limits of jurisdiction between the
General and State Legislatures. When the spe-
cification has been dictated by so obvio
son, shall it be overthrown by a mere supposition
that the enumeration is made for the purpose of
divesting the other branches of the Government
of authorities expressly granted to them 7 On
Bome of these enumerated articles the State Le-
gislatures have concurrent jurisdiction with Con-
gress; and, will it be pretended that they possess,
on that account, a co-operative power 01
Treaties'?
To view the question in all its attitudes, let __
nippose that the constructioa so forcibly pressed
on tne Committee is fully authorized ; what is the
nittltT All the objects so often alluded to an
entirely withdrawn from the jurisdiction of ihi
Elxecutive. If we adopt the principle we cannot
restrain its full operation. There is no middle
ground. Nothing but our arbitrary will can a»-
sign certain rights to be left still with the Execu-
tive, and certain powers to be exercised by this
House. On the construction assumed, all the
Treaties made by the PRBStnEN-T and Senate ate
unwarrantable assumptions of power. An error
has crept into the public councib on this subject.
Foreign negotiations have been carried on upon
' id that the Pbescdeht and Senate could
ly make Treaties. Treaties, without
]n of this House, have bfeu proclaimed
laws. In this situation the exigency of cir-
(nstances press with an almost irresistible
weight on the authors of this doctrine, to set
some limits to its inroads on the powers o[ the
Executive. If (be principle were to be admitted
its whole latitude that love of power and ag-
grandizement, described to us as so insinualii^
and invincible, could not be gratified by an alli-
ance with the Treaty power. To determine the
authority heretofore assumed by the Prg^idbkt
to be usurped, and that in future he could not ex-
ercise it, would leave no basis for our co-operative
power. The middle course also not only address-
es itself to OUT ambition, but professes to avpid
the most serious evils ; though it mutilates the
Constitution, it does not divest it of the Treaty
power, as the principle in iu utmost extent would
do. It admits the constitutionality of the Trea-
ties entered into by the Pbbsident, so far as to
render them proper for our sanction ; and thus
keeps in prospect the continuance of our national
happiness. Temporizing policy may dictate this
line of conduct, but a regard to lue princi}^
which the favorers of the resolution have adopt-
ed^ leads to conclusions far different — that tne
objects of legislation are entirely withdrawn from
the Executive, that his acts ate void, and that
this House can never foster usurped authority in
any of the departments of our Government.
He observed that the other point of view in
which gentlemen presented the subject, viz: that
the Legislative power limited the Treaty power
so far only that it could not conclusively act with-
out the cO'Operation of this House, was incoasiit-
ent with the former proposition ; it conceded that
the enumerated objects of Legislative power were
not withdrawn from the jur^iction of the Exe-
cutive. He said, that on that principle the whole
doctrine of the right now proffered to the House
rests. If these suojects of legislation are not ex-
ceptions out of the Treaty power, whenee can
any authority he derived to us 1 From what
source does it originate 7 The power of the Pre-
8IDEKT and Senate is conclusive overall the sub-
jects it can constitutionally set upon. To sup-
port our co-operative power we are obliged to rob
the Treaty power in part only at this time. We
are now on Treaties already made. He would
ask gentlemen where the co-operative power was
to commence, how far was it to he denned, what
were to be its efiecis? Was there any reason for
limiling it merely to a simple confirmation or re-
jetilion of a Treaty. when nuadel Whynotco-
.dbyGoogle
72S
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
72C
Marob, 179S.J
T^reaty wftfc Great Britain-
[H. opR'
operate in negotiation 1 Th« rerene to what tui
been may be ibe case. Thia House in fntare may
prefer peaceable negotiation, while the Bxecatire
shall meditate a diSereot line of conduct. And,
alight thef not then, with as fair preiensious as
on the present occasion, insist also on the right
of negotiation? Indeed, why not in aU cases?
He would close his remarks on this bcanch of the
subject, by observing th^t, if we substitute con-
■tructive reasoning in place of the express letter
of the Constitution, the form of our GoremmeDl,
under pretence of providing checks against pow-
er, or of enlarging the powers of C^jTeroment,
irould undergo perpeloal changes. The qaesiion
that now fixes the at(entioD ana hopes of the pre-
sent age is, whether men can associate under
written compacts^ and govern themselves? Near-
Ir connected with that question undoubtedly is
the consideration how far the agents of the people
will regard these writ.Ein compacts.
Mr. G. said, he had so far trespassed on the
patience of the Committee, that he would only
ask their attention for a moment to a few remarks
in respect to the right that was supposed to result
to the House of determining on the merits of the
Treaty in question, from their power over appro-
priations 01 money.
Here the mind had been busy ia devising ex-
treme cases, which, from their extremity, formed
their own rule apd provided the remedy. He ob-
served, that most of those cases which had be<
brought forward were such as to destroy the i:
strumenls or Treaties. In instances of their be-
ing obtained hy bribery, fraud, or imponition, they
had no obligation. Bribery, fraud, and irapositior
entirelr vitiate compacts. Under this class ah
are to be placed those Treaties which grossly ss
crifice all the essential rights and interests of
natioo. None of these circumstances can be cai
didly alleged against the British Treaty.
The Question is,, if a Treaty,' fairly and const
tntionally made, stipulates the payment of mone
what obligation does tl impose-on this House?
imposes a perfect obliEation resulting from two
sources. One imposed by the Author of Being —
« moral obligation; the other arising from r —
Constitution, which is formed by a moral and
lishieaed community to enforce moral obligati
lithe nation, from the exigency ot circumstances,
u incapable of discharging its obligations, the?
become suspended. That is not pretended ; and,
if it were, the only document requisite for dell
beraiion would be a statement of revenue and
' espendiinre from the Treasury Department.
Gentlemen who favor the resolution say that
those in opposition to it hare assumed hjeb
ground, and invite us to unite with them. We
conscientiously believe that we stand on Goosti-
tuiiDnal ground; and gentlemen will permit us,
in return, to solicit them to resist the love of pow-
er, which they reprtsent to be so enticing and
predominant, to aflbn) the example of a numer-
oos public body repressing the proffer of an ex-
tennon of their own powers. On these grounds
we shall obtain the noblest of conquests— the con-
quest of Dnnelvet.
Mr. QiLLATiN would not have requested once
more the attention of the Committee, bad sot the
floor been altt^ther occupied for the four last
days by gentlemen opposed to the resolution, who
had taken much new ground, and must have
raised many doubts. At this period of the de-
bate it mignt not be useless to try to state with
precision the question, and the points on which
opinions were divided, and to compare the argu-
ments offered on both sides.
The original question (the call for papers) had
now resolved itself into another, which alone had
become the subject of discussion, to wit : whether
Treaty made by tbe President and Senate
IS, although it embraced objects specifically de-
legated to Congress by the Constitution, a com-
pact completely binding on the nation and Con-
gress, BO as to repeal any law which stood in its
way, so as to oblige Congress (without leaving
tbeia any discretion except that of breaking a
binding compact) to pass anv law the enacting of
which was necessary to fuml a condition of the
Treaty, so as forever afterwards to restrain the
Legislative discretion of Congress upon the sub-
jects regulated by the Treaty ; or, in other words,
whether, when the President and Senate had,
by Treaty, agreed with another nation that a cer-
tain act should be done on our part, the doing of
which was vested in and depended solely on the
will of Congress, Congress lost the freedom of
their will, the discretion of acting or refusing to
act, and were bound to do the act thus agreed on
by the Treaty?
An assertion, repeatedly made by the opposers
of the motion tnat their doctrine rested on the let-
ter of the Constitution, whilst that of those who
contended forthe powers of the House was ground-
ed only on coni^ruction and implication, had nut
the least foundation. The clauses which vest cer-
tain EipeciSc Legislative powers in Congress are
positive, and, indeed, far oetter deSned tban that
which gives the power of making Treaties to the
PRcaiDENTand Senate; nor does tbe clause which
declares laws and Treaties the supreme law of the
land decide in favor of either, and cay which
shall be paramount. And yet some gentlemen
had argued as if they meant to attend exclusively
to one part of the Constitution, without noticing
the other ; the consequence was, that many oT
their argnments applied with equal force in sup-
port of the opposite doctrine. Thus, when they
said that there was no part of the Constitution
which declared that the Legislature had power to
make a Treaty ; that, had it been intended to ex-
cept Legislative ohjects-out of the'generalTiealy-
niaking power, an express proviso for that pur-
pose should have been added to the clause which
gives the power of making Treaties ; aud that
Congress, when making laws, were bound to obey
the will of the people, as expressed by their agents
the President and Senate; it might, with equal
strength of argument, be replied, that there was
no part of the Constitution which declared that
the Phesidbnt and Senate bad power to make
laws; that if it had been intended to except out
of and to limit the Legislative powers of Congress
;dbvGoogle
HfSTOaT OF CONGRESS.
H.opR.]
Treaty with Gnat Bjitain.
by the Treaty-makisg Mwer, an express proviso
for that purpose should hare been added Co the
clause wnich gives the Leetslative poweisj asd
that the PaeaiPEHT and Senate, when making
Treaties, were bound to obey (be will of the peo-
ple, as expressed by ihdT agents, Congress.
In order to decide which doctrine was most
formable (o the Constitution, it was necessary to
attend to and to compare both parts of the instru-
ment, and to adopt thai conatraction which would
S>e full effect [d all the clauses and destroy nor
ut, before he entered in that examination, I
found himself obliged to follow the geotlemi
who had spoken belore him through a train of s
sumenlE, drawn not from the letter or spirit of
the Constt[uiion,eitbeF directly or by implies
but from a variety of extraneous sources.
Law of r^ations, the practice under the Articles of
Confederation, the opinions of individoaU and of
Conventions, had been conjured up as uniting in
asctibiug to the power of making Treaties the
most uiiltmited and unbounded effect.
It was, in the first place, insisted that the Trea-
ty-making power, by its TuUure, necessarily in-
Tolved all those incident powers which might be
necessary to give it effect; that, as it did embrace
all those objects which may become subjects of
compact between nations, so it must imfJy a pow-
er conclusively to i^ulate all such objects, of
whatever nature tbey mkbt be ; and that, by the
Law of Nations, the wotda to make Trtaties were
generally understood to have that broad meaning.
- The very reverse, however, of those assertions
would prove to be the fact. For, firstly, in all
limited Governments, where the powers of mak-
ing Treaties and laws were lodged in difierenl
handa, the first never had, by ila nature, swallow-
ed up and absorbed the Legislative ; but it would
be found universally that the manner in which
that power was exercised in such Oovetoments,
when the conditions of the compact with the fo-
reign nation were of a Legislative nature, was, not
by superseding but only hy calling lo its aid and
assistance the Legislature, without whose ccaisent
the Executive was not enabled to fulfil the condi-
tions of the compact ; and, secondly, this doctrine
was perfectly well understood, as he slated it, by
all nations, and tl^erefore constituted a pari of the
Law of Nations. For it was agreed by all the
writers on the subject, (and he quoted Vattd, book
i, chap. 21.) that even where the Legislative and
Treaty-making powers were united in ihe same
hands, it did not follow that the conductor of cbe
nation had a power to dismember or alienate the
territory of the nation, unless he had received
from ibem not only the power of making Trea-
ties, not only general Legislative powers, but also
either the express power of alicnatiogj or, what is
called bv those writers Ihejidi toeereignty pateer,
or, in otner words, an absolute, complete, unlim-
ited, and despotic authority over the nation. But
it was further stated by the same writers, justifi-
ed by general experience, and recognised as a
principle of the Law of Nations, that in all limit-
ed OovernmeoCs, the powers vested in the other
branches of Government, and specially in the Le-
gislative body, operated as limitations lo the gen-
eral power of making Treaties, lodged in the Ex-
ecutive. In support of that assertion, he quoted
Vatlel, book ii, chap. 14, and also the following
passage from the same author, from book iv,
chap. S : -
" TIm ome power, dec, baa naturaHr that likewna
of making. and condnding tfaeTM&tyof Paace. But
this poner dots not necemrilj indnde that of oflning
01 mocepting an; conditioDf with ■ view of peace ;
though the Stata baa iotniBt«] to ita condnctm- flu gen-
eral cars of determining war and peaoe, jet the filnda-
roental laivs may have Umited bis powsi in manj thing*.
Accoidingly, Piancia lat. King of France, bad an *baD-
lule diapuial of viti and peace i yet in the Ainnm|flj at
Cognac, he dedued that, lo alienate, bj a Treat; of
Peace, any part of the Kingitom, wa» ijiit of his power-
When a hmited power ii authorised to make peaca, aa
he cannot of himself grant every condition, in order to
treat on lUre grounds with bim, it miiat be required that
the Treaty of FeaM be approved by the nation or the
Power whidi can mike good Ihe conditions. IC, for
Distance, in treating of a peace with Sweden, ■ ieSat^
nve aHianoe and a gnaian^ be leqniTed for iho condi-
tion, this atqnilation will be of no eflaet, nnlen «f>prov-
dude Ttaatiea of Peace and AUiukee, but by Ifaeoa
Tnaties they cannot ahsnate any of the po— aaiom of
the Crown without the cooaHlt of Padiatoent ; neither
can tbey, wilbont the concurrence of the naie b«dy,
laiae any money in the Kingdcm. Therefon^ when '
they negotiate any Trea^ of lubn^ea, it ia ibmt cmt-
stant rule to communicate the Treaty to the Pailia-
meot, that they may be certain of its concunence Co
make good such engagements."
It' was in support of and to exemplify that gen-
eral doctrine, Mr. G. continued, that he had, m a
former stage of the debate, brought the instance of
Great Britain as the fullest illustratirai of wbathe
bad conceived to be the true operation of the
Treaty-making power in those Goveraments,
which were so far similar to our own, as to have
vested the Legislative and Executive powers, the
authority of making laws, and the authority of
making Treaties, in different branches, in differ-
ent hands; yet that illuslralion had been attacked
from various quarters of Ihe House, as if he had
attempted to show that the Constitutions of the
two countries were similar in any olher respects,
except those which he had pointed out ; and an
rer had been attempted, by showing chat (hey
• so dissimilar on many points, which did not
affect and did not apply to the present question ;
as if Ihe dissimilar it y in some part destroyed the
perfect similarity in other parts, and the conse-
quence which flowed from it. The only obiec-
tion he had beard Co that similarity had fallen
from a gentleman of Connecticut, who had this
morning favored (he Committee with a very in-
genious and correct speech, and who had stated
that, in England, Treaties were not considered as
law by the Courts of Justice, So far as related
the Treaties which might operate on objects of
a Legislative nature, the observation of Che gen-
tlemau was true, and, indeed, flowed from the
very doctrine Mr. O. wes supporting, beeaiue in
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
HAitaH,179&]
TraUy vUh Onat Britain.
[H.OPR.
tbtt u*e it inu neeesniy that laws shoiiild, in ihe
firsl place, be passed, in order Id render tbe Trea-
If operaiire i but wheD a Treaty decided on sub-
jecU relative to the general Law of Nations, aod
wlkicli could not be embraced by the Legislature,
it was cODiidered as law. Thus, if (Englaiid be-
ing at peace with France and at war with a third
Daiioo) as EDglish privateer wasio takea French
lessel hecause loaded, with their eaeroy 'a goods,
the Courts of England' would consider theCom--
mercial Treaty between France and England as
law, and would accordingly release the captured
fiui the same gentlemen who obiecied to a re-
ference to the Government of Gieaf Britain hare
brought ia support of their doctrine the Articles
of Confederation, and the practice uader the same.
They musl, however, be sensible that the only
reason that can be alleged why the Articles of
Canfederatioo are more similar to our present
Constitution than that of Great Britain is, that
the two first governed the samt; people. Id every
other respect, it must be agreed, that our CoBstt'
initon was far mote asximilated to that of Eng-
land than to the Arlieles. A^d: it must be al-
lowed that the practice of Government under the
ConfedeiatioQ had been very loose, and that many
important powers had been exercised by Congress
which were not delegated to them, but wnich
were justified by common danger, and permitted
bf commoa consent. Thus, they had declared the
iodependeaice of the United States long before
there was aoy written Oonstitution to which they
could reeur for the rule of their authorilY. Thus,
they bad made war and concluded Treaties before
the Confederation existed. Yet, Mr. G. said, be
had no objection to investigate that argument,
and to examine whether the theory and (he prac-
tice under the Articles had been correctly stated
by thoee gentlemen.
The argument was this: that by those Articles
many of the Legislative powers now vested in
Congress were reserved to the States, and, of
course, if our doctrine was true, ought to have op-
erated as limitations of the general power of mak-
ing Treaties given to the old Congress by the
same Articles ; but that it was not so. as, on Ihe
contrary, that general power had been construed
as superseding the Legislative authority of the
Slates, an instance of which was given in ■'■"
Treaty of Peace with Great Britain.
In answer, Mr. O. observedj firstly, that there
was an essential difference between the Legisla-
tive powers reserved to the States by the Articles
of Confederation and those vested in Congress by
the Constitution ; the Gist remained with ihi
enumeraieti; the firU were only supposed not
have been granted; the last were delegated to
Congress by the same instrument which gare the
power of making Treaties, and therefore musl ne-
cessarily be so C'lQsirued as not to be destroyed.
while there would be no absurdity in givitig a
conatrnctioa to the Articles of Confederation by
which (he power of making Treaties should be
e powers,
supposed to supersede certain Legislattv
which, before the ratification of (hs in
were vested in the individual Slates. It might be
fairly supposed thai the States, when giving by
the Articles (hepower of making Treaties to Con-
gress, meant also to give some Legislative powers
they were then possessed of; but it would be ab-
surd to say that, by giving that power (o the Pbb-
BiDBiiT and Senate, they meant also to give to
them certain Legislative powers, which they were
at the same time expressly vesting in Coni^ress.
In Ihe next place, if recourse was had to the Ar-
ticles themselves, they would be found {o contain
the following clanse :
" The United Blala, in Cangross isMmbled, shall
have the sole and eicliuive right and power of detar-
mining on peac« ; of entering into Trsatiea and AQJ-
ancei, provided that no Treaty of CommBree ohsll b«
mode nhereby the LegisIativB poner of the respective
Statei shall be mtrsmed from imposing such imposta
and duties on fbnigners as their own people sie subjected
to, or from probilHting the eiportotion or importation of
any species of goods or commodities whatsoever."
From which it might be implied, that if the
proviso had not been inserted. Congress, by the
general power of making Treaties, would haT«
had that of laying lesser duties on foreigners,
than Ihe States did on their own people; and,
therefore, that that general power was understood
to include that of resulaling, by Treaty, what du-
ties foreigners should pay. But if another clause
of the same articles, lo wit:
" No State ilntU lay an? impoets or ^tiea which
maj interfere with any stipnlalioDs in Treaties sntcnd
into bj the United States in Congress sanmblad with
any King, Prince, or State, in pursuance of aoj Traa-
ties sliesdj proposed by Congiesa to the Coorls of
France and Spain," —
be recnrred to, the clear inference is, that if this
last clause had not been inserted, the indivi-
dual Stales would liave had the power of laying
duties interfering with stipglations in Treaties;
and, therefore, that the general power of making
Treaties was not udderstood to include that of re-
pealing, by Treaty, such laws as the respective
States might have made on that subject, or even
of restraining the future exercise of their Legis-
lative authority ihereon. If, for instance, C^-
gress bad made a Treaty stipulating, that a oer- '
tain species of goods, whether imported by for-
eigners or citizens, should not pay a duly of more
than ten per cent, ad valorem, the States, or any
of them, might have laid a duty of fifteen per
cent., the Treaty notwithstanding^ had not inat
clause been inserted. The practice under the
Confederation will be found to have generally
conformed to the theory. In order to illnstrate it
it will be sufficient to advert to (be Treaty of
Commerce with France, and to the Treatf of
Peace with Great Britain.
There was hut one clause in the Treaty with
France, which, taking into consideration the gen-
eral powers of Congress, and the specific restric-
tions upon States as abovemeuiioned, could tw
supposed to interfere with Legislative poweri re-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
,K.}
TVeo^ mt\ Cheat Briiain.
[MucB, 1796.
served to the iudividuBl States; ii w&s tbat arti-
cle which provided that French subieccs could
inherit real estates within the United States — an
uiicle which was repugnant to the general Uw
of the land, by which aliens are not capable of
iaheriling. Was it, however, supposed, that that
article of the Treaty, repealed, ipio facto, the
lawE of the Stsles, and enabled the French sub-
jects to inherit 1 No \ for Coneress recommended
to the several States to passlaws to tbat effect.
Mr. Q. then quoted laws of (no of the States
made in conformity to the recommendation ; the
first passed by Maryland, was a complete proof
thai the Legislature of that State did not think
themselves bound by the Treaty, but exercised
their discretion thereon ; for they added to the
clause enabling French subjects to inherit real
estates a proviso, declming, that any such estate
should revert to the CommouweaLth at the end of
ten years, unless the French subject had,
that time, either become a citizen of the United
States, or conveyed his inheritance to a- citizen
that is to savj tbat they agreed to carry the
Treaty into efiect, upon a condition which made
no part of the Treaty, or, in other words, that
they carried the Treaty into effect, not fully and
completely, but conditionally and in part. Mr.
G. said he was sensible that the recommendation
of Coneress and the act of Maryland were liable
to an objection, lo wit, that they were both passed
S'ior to the final ratification of the articles of
onfederetion. He would, however, observe that
the act of Maryland continued in force atler that
ratification, ano in order to remove any objections
oit that head, he quoted another act of the State
of New Jersey, passed in May, 1781, after the ar-
ticles of Confederation had been fully ratified ;
which grants to French subjects the privileges
promised by the Treaty, and which, as a proof of
the discretion exercised by (he Legislature of that
State, states as a reason of passing the act, not
the positive agreement entered into by Congress,
as being binding upon the Stale, but the services
It M the B
• with d«b(*
United States by France during
rendered U
the war.
. ,As to the Treaty of Peace with Great Britain,
there were threeariicles which might be supposed
to interfere with the Legislative powers of the
several States: 1st. What related to the payment
of debts; 2d. The article providing that there
should be no future confiscations or prosecutions
against persons on account of the part they had
tAen durine the war; 3d. What related to the
restitution of estates which had been confiscated.
As to the first, Mr. G. observed, that by the
Law of Nations, it was well understood, that
whenever a Treaty of Peace took place, all acts
of hostility were to cease, and all private debts
were to be paid. The first position would not be
denied ; and, in support of tlie last, he read Vat-
td, book 4th, chap. 2 :
" CuuDS founded on a debt, or an uuury prior to the
war, but which made no part of the reaaona for under-
taking it, remain entrre, and are not aboliahed bj the
Tnat7,nnlen it be famaltj extended to ''
of every elum whatever.
contrai^cd during the wsi, oc
It followed from theneej^hat even if that clanie
id not existed in the Treaty; any law consti-
tuting an impediment to the recovery of private
debts, would have been a violation of the Law of
Nations, and of the peace between the two coun-
tries, unless it was justified by an infraction of
the Treaty on the patt of Great Britain ; and of
course, that that article being put in only for
greater security, it was binding on the several
States, not as part of a Treaty, but as part of the
Law of Nations, The same reasoning would
apply to tho article which prevented future con-
fi-cations. iT the persons concerned were consi-
dered as British subjects. It was true, however,
that if they were considered as American citi-
zens, the article was an invasion of the Legisla-
tive Tights of the St«tes. But as the wmr with
Great Britain was, in its origin, a civil war, as
every person concerned was, wneo it began, ■
British subject, and it became necessary to esta-
blish by the Treaty, some rule on that head, that
article may be considered as declaring, not that
States should not confiscate in future estates be-
longing to American citizens, but that the per-
sons comprehended within the provisions of the
article, should be considered as British snbjects ;
which certainly was the most liberal and the most
rational construction.
But. when the eOnfiscaticmE which had already
taken place are mentioned, then the Treaty as-
sumes a different language ; when the act to be
done comes clearly within the sphere of the Legis-
lative power of the individual States, Congress do
not think, in conformity to the doctrine now held
up by some gentlemen, that, by virtue of their
general Treaty-making power, they have a right
to embrace that object; but they only agree, that
they shall recommend to the several Legislatures
to pass laws on the subject. In order to prove
that il vras on that ground, that Congress would
agree to anything more on that bead than a
recommendation, and of course that the technical
sense of the words to make Treaties was not as
extensive as now contended for. Mr. O. read the
following extract of a letter to Richard Oswald,
His Britannic Majesty's Commissioner, signed
John Adams, B. Franklin, and John Jay:
" Sir, in sniwBr, to the letter, jod did ns the honor
to write on the 4th jlutant, (NoTsmbei, IT8S) we b^
letTe to repeat what we often said in conversation, viz:
that the reitoration of such of the eatatas of refugees
»a have been confiacated, i* impracticable, bectoao the;
were confiscated by laws of particular 8t»tea, and in
many instances have paaoed, by legal titles, through
aoTeral hands. Besides, sir, ai thirf is a matter evi-
dently appertaining to the internal polity of the aepfr
rate States, the Congreaa, by the nature of our Goniti-
tulion, have no authority to intetfera wiA it." -
Here, said Mr. G,. is not only a case in poini,
but a full acknowleclgtnEnt of the doctrine he wis
supporting, that the nature of the Constitution of
a country limited the Treety-making power il-
though there was no express proviso lo tnat efiect;
L
abjGoOgIc
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mahoh, 1706.]
T^tatg vith Ortat Britam.
[H.orR
for, under the Confedefalioa, the power of makioz
Treaties was gWen to CongrcM in as ^Deral
terms, as it is ginn b; the present Consiitatiou
to the Pbebident and Benate, and yet it was un-
derstood that it did aol embrace a subject evi-
dently appertainiuK to the internal polity of the
States, a subject comprehended within the powers
supposed to be reserved to the State«; a subject
evidently of a Legislative nature.
He then read the following extracts from Mr.
Adams's Journal mpecliojc peace, still on the
same uubject :
** Congnaa are instnicted sgainat it, or rather have
not Conitiliitional anthori^ to do iL We can only
write about it to Congren, and they to the Btatea, who
may, and probaUy will, ddibenila upon it eightesQ
monUta before they all decide, dec" — " I replied that
we had BO power, and Con^reai had no power, and
thoreibre wa muat conader how it woald be reawmed
imoQ in the •cTsralLegiilatureB of thBaoperate States,
iC after being sent by ua to Congreaa, and by them to
the several Sutes, m the coarse of twelve or fifteen
month* it ahould be theredebated."—"Wa could do
nothing, Congreoa nothing, the time it would take to
oonanlt the States—"
Also, the following extracts of the official let-
ters of Dr. Franklia, on the same sabjeet :
" We declared at once, that, whatever confiacationa
had been made in America, being in virtue of the laws
of paiticolar States, the Congress had no aalhority to
Mpeal thoae lam, and tiierelbre conld give na none to
■bpnlate fbr aoch repeaL" — " I acquainted yon that
nothing of that kind could be stipul^ed by os, the con-
fiacatkins being made by virtue of laws of particntai'
Stalea, vrhidi the Congrea had no power to eontra-
vane or dtspeose with, Ac" — "As to tbe h^ahata, I re-
peated what I had said to him when fint bare, that
ibair estate* had been oonfiaeated by the law* made in
the particular Statea, where the dehnqaenta had resi-
ded, and not by any law of Congress, who, indeed,
had no power either to make such lawa, or to repeal
them, or to dispense with them j and therafbre could
give no power to thcdi Commisaionera to treat of a re-
stotalion for those people : that it was an afiait appci^
taining to each State.'
It id unneeeasary, continued Mr. O., to make
any connaents on those extrScia. From an ex-
aminatioD of the Law of Nations of what had
been generally understood to be the sense of the
words " to make Treaties," and to be the effect
of that power, from the manner in which that
power operated in limited Qoveraments, and spe-
cially in Great Britain, and ander the Confedera-
tion, the two Governments which had served as
a basis and model to our present Constitution,
which were mostly contemplated by the people
who adopted it, and from whence we had bor-
rowed the very expressioas relative to that sub-
ject, it evidently appears, that the construction
given by the advocates of the present motion,
was as consonant to the general acceptation of the
words, to the general sense of mankind, and to
the opiaions entertained both here and in Slurope
on the subject, as it was consistent with the letter
and spirit of out Consliiution.
Driven from that ground, the gentUmen who
6Dal)y,
of the general Convention which fVamed the Con-
stitution.- Mr. G. little expected to have heard
such an appeal as was made yesterday by the
gentleman from Maryland ; such a doctrine ad-
vanced as, that the opiaions and coDstruciions of
those persons who had framed and proposed the
Constitution, opinions given in private, construc-
tions unknown to the people when they adopted
the instrument, ^ould, after a lapse of eight
years, be appealed to, in order to countenance the
doctrine of some gentlemen. He hardly could
have expected that the people now should be
told—
Tou have bad a Conatitation for eig:bt years, and
have adopted it under such impreaaitniB as muat have
leanltad from the &ce of the instrument ; but it was
the design of thoae wtu> framed it, that it should have
constiuction ftom that it natnnjly bean.
- As Mr. Q. did not know what had passed in
that Conventioit, he could not make any remarks
upon it. Bnt for what purpoee was the app«al
madel Was it in order to create suspicions which
could not bo with propriety directly removed?
Wasii in order to throw a hint, that some gentle-
men on this floor were acting inconsistently with
what thev had formerly professed? The object
was not, oe was sure, to tlirow light on the sub-
ject. The intentions of the parties to an instru-
ment, of those who ratify it, who give it effect,
who are bound by it, may be-of use to discover its
meaning; but it was the first time he had heard
that the intention of those, who might be em-
ployed to draw the instrument, was to ne taken as
a rale of construction. The intention of a Legis-
lature who pass a law may perhaps be, though
with caution, resorted to, in order to explain or
construe the law ; but would any person recur to
the intention, opinion, and private construction, of
the clerk who might have been employed to draft
the bill 1 In the present case, the gentlemen who
formed the general Convention, however respect-
able, entitlnl as they were to the thankt and
gratitude of their country for their servicesin gene-
ral, and especially on that imnortant occasion,
were not oi those who made, wno pax&ed the fn-
stjrumeni; theyonly drew it and proposed it. The
peof^e and the State Conventions who ratified
who adopted the instrument, are alone parties to
it, and their intentions alone might, with any de-
gree of propriety, be resorted to. And, even so
nr as related to the opinions expressed in those
Conventions, it had bean properly stated that the
sentiments of those who objected to the adoption
of the Constitution, could not have much weight
as a rule of coastraction, nor could the amend-
ments which had been proposed by some of those
Conventions, be, with propriety, brought forward
as a te«t of tnelr opinion, or of the true construc-
tion of the Constitution; for (hose a mend melts
were adoptad in order to conciliate the opiniona
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
,1-R.]
Treaty mlk Onat Britain.
[March, 1796.
of a majority, and they were nroposed as much
with a oeeisii to explain doubtiul articles as with
a Tiew to obtaia alteratJORs. He would add, thai
not one of the amendmeata which had been read,
at which he had seen, applied to the question now
under discussion ; they bII tended to give a diffei-
eitt construction to the Constitution from thai he
DOW contended for. oud therefore could, with ^reat
propriety, have been proposed by Conventions, or
by individuals, who understood the Conitiintioo
in the same sense he did, but who wanted some
further alterations, laaie further security, some
further check, than even the cDnsimetiou now
contended for, by the advocates of the molioo, did
ffive. Yet, upon that ground, an argument had
been attempted, tpecially directed to himadf.
It had been stated, that after the adoptic» of
the Constitation, he was one of a meetina' com-
poaed of many citizens of Pennsylvania, who met
at Harrisbnrg in the year 1786, and there drew a
^tuioniD the Legislature of sheir Bute, request-
' v^ them to take Constinnioaal measures to ob-
tain some aniMi^ments to the Constitution, one
of which applied to the subject of making Trea-
ties. He would ask whether that meeting, and
he as one of ibero, were not fully justifialile in
held, in favor of the unlimited effect of the Treaty-
making power, did not afford a satisfactory proof
that they were right in wishing for such a Con-
■titutionat explanation as would remove all doubts
on that subject 7 But as the remark had been
made with a desi^ to throw an appearance of in-
consistency on his conduct, he was obliged to re-
late a fact with which he would not otherwise
have troubled the Committee. More than iWo
years ago, whilst he had a seat in the Senate of
the United Slates, before it had ever been sug-
gested that an Envoy was to be sent to England,
a Senator from Georgia had moved in that body
an amendment to the Constitution, purporting
that the Treaty-making power should not extend
BO far as to dismember a State. The amendment
was debated, and its propriety supported and op-
posed on the su[q)aaition that that power did, by
the Constitution, extend to that object He had
on that occasion opposed the amendment on the
same grounds on which he now supported the
present melion ; he had held out the same iloc-
trine which he now contended for, to wit: that
the Treaty-making powerwas not boundlew, that
it was lijttiied by the Constitution, that it did not
embrace that object which was contemplated by
the propoaed amendment. What general effect
his arguments iheti bad he could not tell. All he
knew was, that they were not answered, and that
the gentleman who had made the motion dec lated
himself satisfied and withdrew the amendmenL
He did not wish to give more weight to a trifltns
fact thai it could bear, and he had mentioned it
solely to repel the personal iosinuatian thrown
out that he had formed his present opinion on the
^Hir of the occasion, and in order to serve some
favorite purpiisei.
The only cowMfioiaiieMM opiwotia which oould
Sht in favoF of the omnipotence of
jng power, were those of the gen
have any i
the Treaty-m ^ ^ , _
tlemen who had advocated the adoption of the
Constitution ; and recourse had been had to the
debates of the State Conventionsin order to show
that such gentlemen had conceded that doctrine.
The debates of Virginia had first been partially
quoted for that purpose ; yet, when the whole was
read and examined, it had clearly appeared, that,
on the ooDtrary, the general senseof the advocates
of the Constitution there, was Himitar to thai now
contended for by the supporters of the motion- The
debates of the North Carolina Convention bad also
been partially quoted; and it was not a little re-
markable, ihat whilst gentlemen fron that Stale
had declared on this floor, durinD the presem de-
bate, that they weM members of the Convention
which 'ratified and adapted the Conttitotion, that
they had voted for it, and that their own and the
general inpression of that Convention was, that
the Treaty-making power was limited by the
other parts of the Constitution, in the manner
now mentioned, it was not a Httle remarkable,
ihat in oppmitiou to those declaiHtions, a gentle-
man from Rhode Island had quoted partial ex-
tracts of thedebates of a Convention also in North
Carolina, who rejected the Constitmion. Yet in
those very debates it would be found that the
learned Judge, whose opinion had been mentinned
~ the very speech which had been quoted, had.
explieilly declared, "that the weight of the im-
mediate representatives of the people (both in
Qreat Britain end under the Fedenl Constitu-
tion^ had great authority added to it, b^tfaeirpos-
aessing the right of exclusively originatmg money-
bitls. The anthority over money will do every
thing. A Oovermnent cannot be suppoKed with-
out money. Our Representatives may, at any
time, compel the Senate to aeree Co a reasonable
measure by withholding supplies till the measure
is consented to." Was not this allowing a fall
discretion in money matters to this House — a dis-
cretion which they might useJeven in the case of
Treaties, as a complete check on the Senatel A
gentleman from New York [Mr. WilliambJ had
read to them an amendment proposed in the Con-
vention of that Slate, by wmch it was required
that no Treaty should abrogate a law of the
United States, trom whence he inferred, thai that
Convention understood the Treaty-making power
would hare that effect, unless the amendment
was introduced. The 'gentleman, however, forgot
to inform the Committee that that amendment
did not obtain ; and, therefore, that the inference
was the reverse of what he had staled.
Leaving, however, to other gentlemen to make
further remarks on the debates of the Conven-
tions of their respective Statet, he would con-
clude what he had to say on that ground by ad-
verting to the debates of the Pennsylvania Coa-
veniiou. The only part of those debates which
had been printed 'contained the speeches of the
advocates of the Coiuiitution. and although the
subject vra* but slightly toacned, yet what was
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKY OP OONaRESS.
Treaty vUh Great Britain.-
[H.orR.
said on the subject, by the ableat adrocate of that
CoDstilution, in Pennsy Ivauia, by the miu) who
had beea most efficient to eoforce its ■dopiion io
this State, would be ibund to be in point. He
then read the following extract from Judge Wil-
son's speech (paifea IIQ and 111 Debates of Peno-
syWaaiaCoDTendon:) "There Isoodoubt but under
thisCoasiitution Treaties will becoraeihesupreKie
law of the land ; nor is there any doubt but the Se-
nate and PREBinEKT possess (he powtr of making
them." Mr. Wilson then proceeds to show the
propriety of that pioviaion, and how unfit the Le-
gislature were to conduct ne^olialions, and (ben
eipresceshimselTiD the followme words: ''It well
deserves to be remarked, that toough the House
of Representatives possess no actire part in
making Treaties, yet (heir Legislative authority
wilt be found to have strong restraining influence
upon both Frebideht and Seuaie. In England,
ir the King and his Ministers find themselves,
during their negotiation, (o be embarrassed, be-
cause an existing law is not repealed, or a new
taw is not eoacted, they give notice to the Legis-
lature of their situation, and inform them that it
will be necessary, before the Treaty can operate,'
that aome law be repealed, or some be made. And
will not the same thing lake place faerel"
After such pointed contemporaneous expositions
of the true meaning and spirit of the Constitu-
tion, would it stilt be asserted, that the opinions
now expressed were a new-fangled doctrine ; un-
heard of, and uotbousht of, till the British Treaty
became a subject of discussion > inconsistent with
former opinions, with the practice undar the Con*
fedefaiion, and other Go Ternmeuts similar to our
oi«n, with the Law of Nations, and the general
sense of mankind I
But anoiher objection, still less connected with
the subject, altogether unsupported by the letter
of tbe Constitution, had been stated by those gen-
tlemen who declared ibaC their doctrine was not
grounded on implication. " The sovereignty of
the Slates, thef said, was represented in Senate :
(he power of making Treaties wa* an attribute of
sovereignty. In Senate the small States had an
equal weight with the lar^e ones ; they would be
Etwallowea up, and their sovereignty annihilated,
if the House of Representatives, as a branch of
Congress, had a restraining power, in Legislative
cases, over tbe exerciM of the TrMiy-making
power." or alt the argumenta brought on (his
uccasion, none was more groundless, and, indeed,
Qnmeaning. It was. it not desifaed, at least cal-
culated, s^ely for thej)urpose of nciting preju-
dices and reviving animosities. The power of
making laws lodged in Congress, was as coni-
nleie an attribute of sovereignty, as that of making
Treaties. So far aa tbe indiridual States bad dt-
vested themselves of certain powers, and dele-
gated them to the Oeneral Oovemment, or to anv
branch of it, so far they had, in lact, parted Wi(n
their sovereignty, and even more so, in cases
where ihe Senate was concerned, as that body,
from their duration, was less dependent ott their
constituents (ban this House. If the difference of
representation in the two btaackei of the Legis-
lature was examined^ and the view, which the
Constitution gave of its operation, contemplated,
it would be found that its fundamental principle
was this, that no law could be passed without the
consent of the majority of the people, nor without
the consent of tbe majority of the Slates ; a prin-
ciple equally liberal and just ; a principle equally
consonant with (bat of an equal representation.
and that of the independence of the individual
States ; a principle which the conslruclion be
gave 10 the Constitution did not ofiend, since the
power claimed by the House was reMraining and
not active, whilst the adverse doctrine tended to
ilj annihilation; since it was grounded on the
idea, that, by the operation of a Treaty, laws were
repealed, and 'an obligation of enacting taws was
imposed, without, or perhaps against, a majority
of the people. But another essential principle of
our Constitution, a principle as important to the
people of tbe small Stales as (hoee of the large
States; a principle wbbse subversion would de^
siroy tbe liberties of the people of tbe United
States, in whatever part they might reside; a
principle for which they had contended, and which
was ine basis of our Revolution, and of all our
Immediate Representatives, wa* also prosIr«ted
by that truly novel doctrine in America, that
thoae immediate Representatives were bonnd by
tbe mandates of ibe Executive; and that, de-
prived of their discretion, of the freedom of their
will, they must implicitly obey and execute laws
made by another set of agents of tbe people, and
not immediateiy chosen by them.
Having now taken a review of tl>c argnmenta
and objections drawn from other sources than the
Constitution itself, Mr. O. said, it was necessary
finally, to levnt to the instrument, the meaning vS
whicocould perhaps be explained in doubtful cases,
bat never could be altered or subverted by any opin-
ions or precedents, ahbough it must oleorly ap-
pear that those opinions and precedents $(tongly
corroborated tbe construction he gave to the Con-
stituiioo ; he wished that opinion to be tried by
the letter of the instrument alone.
Tlie different clansps of tbe Consiitutitm most
be BO construed as to be rendered constBtent, and
to be reconciled onewith the other; and that eon-
ttruction mast be rejected which would destroy
any of ihem. Two thines must, (harefore, be
proved, in order (o establisn the discretion claim-
ed by the Hause ; first, that tbe doctrine of iboM
who opposed the rootion. destroyed tb« clauses
that granted specific Legislative powers to Con-
Sress ; snid, secondly, that the coDstmction given
y those who supported that motion^ did not an"
nihilate the power of making Treaties vested in
the Pkesidbnt and Senate.
The first point resulted from the following ccmsi-
deratiMs: Isl. Tbepowarof raakuigTreatiesbeiDg
Snted in an undedned manner, may, if it is nn-
s(ood not to tw restrained by tbe specific Le-
gislative powers of Congress, embrace and anper-
sede eve^ one of them; smce, under color of
Dtafcing Tmmm^ the Pimiduit ami Benate may
.dbyGoogle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Trtaty wiA Qrtat Britaht.
[Mai
I, 1796.
BtipuUta on any obJMl whateTsr, whether of a
LegUlattre nature or ntit, and, therefore, those
stipulations, according to that doctrine, being
binding upon the nation and Congress, ma; legiS'
lale, repeal acta of the Lesislature, and restrain
the future exercise of ie^station npon aaf subject
whatever. Sd. If il is said, that the power of mak-
ing Treaties is limited, bv itx own nature, to sach
objects as do commonly Secome subjects of com-
pact between nailous, it will be found that some
of those stipulations, which are often inserted in
Treaties commonlv made between uatious, would
sapersede someof tne moet important speeinc pow-
ersof Congress. Much had already been said upon
Treaties of Commerce, considered as clashing
with the power given to Congress to regulate
commerce, that subject being moat immediately
connected with the one now undet' discussion ; but
it would,p«rh«ps,better illustrate the effect of that
doctrine, were we to examine the opeiaiioa of
Treaties of Alliance and Commerce, on the three
great powers Tested in Congress — to declare war;
to raise and suppoit land and sea forces ; and' to
raise money either by loans or taxes. If any
Treaty, which is not null by the Law of Nations,
is binding upon the nation, provided il is aot uncoa-
stitUtioDal,.if it is not unconatitntional to stipulate
that an act shall 1)4 done which it is in the power
of Congress to do; and if, in such a case. Con-
grass ate bound lo do the act, whenever the Prmi-
DBMT and Senate shall, by a Treaty of Alliance,
a species of Treaty consonant to the Law of Na-
tions; whenever they shall stipulate, in conrider-
ation of some real or supposed advantages confer-
red upon us in return ; that if a certain nation is
attacked, or if certain circumsiaiices mentioned
in the Treaty take place, the United States shall
assist ihem as auxiliaries, either with certain sti-
pulated sums of money, or with a certain number
of troops, or ships, or shall make a common cause
with them^ tssbt them with all their forces, and
become pruicipflls in the war ; all which stipula-
tions are usual between nations, all which stipula-
tiiHiB may be carried into effect bv the Gonstitu-
tiooal powers of Congress, and, therefore, would
not annul ihe Treaty, either as contrary to the Law
of Nations, or as uneonstitu tiooal ; whenever the
PaaaiDBHT and Senate shall have made such stipu-
lations, and the circumstances contemplated in the
Treaty shall take place, Congress slull be bound
to raise money, to raise armies, to provide a navy,
or even lo mute war. They will have no discre-
tiot^ou the subject; for the expediency, the pro-
priety of the measure are not amongst the eonsid-
eralioos which most actuate them. The Treaty
is a compact made by the agents of the people;
it is the supreme law of the land ; it binus Con-
gress as it does the netim ; Congress must obey
It; Congress must execute it. They are not at
liberty to exercise the power lo borrow money
and lay taxes ; but they are comjielled to do either.
They Dave not the power to raise armies and to
maintain a navy ; but the Treaty has declared
they shall do both, and they are bound lo do it.
They have not the power lo declare war; but it
is for themsdalyramorslobligntiiHiloproclaim
it. The PaEaiDBNT and Senate have the power,
specifically vested in Congress by tbeCoostilution,
to stipulate that moneys shall be raised^ troops
levied, and war wf^d in favor of one nation and
against another. The discretion lef^ to Congress
lo- decide, perhaps, n^n the organization of
. Iroops, the pay of the i^cers, and the uniform
of the soldiers. The discretion left to Congress
is to decide, whether the moneys shall be raised
by a direct tax or an impost ; and even there, per-
haps, their discretion has been curtailed ; perhaps
ibey have no choice left; perhaos Treaties of
Commerce with those nations, wnose importa-
tions supply the imposts, shall have declared that
DO higher duties shall be laid ; nay, they may have
fixed the tariff of duties, as many similar Treaties
often do; they may have declared that those
goods, from, whence our greatest revenue is drawn,
shall pay but five per cent, instead of twenty;
they may have repeated all the contravening laws
which stood in the way of stipulations ; Congress
may be forced nol only to T«ise money, bat also
to raise itin a certain way. By the Constitution
Congress have power, a discretionary power, to
legislate on the subjects of money, armies, and,
war ; to declare not only how moneys shall be
raised, armies supported, and war earned on, but,
also, whether there shall be a war or not, whether
an army shall exist or not, whether money shall
be raised from the people or not; and the PaEsi-
iffiHT is to execute the laws they pass on those
importBDi subjects. By Ihe Treaty doctrine, the
PsBsmBNT and Senate have the Legislative pow-
er to declare that the people shall par money ;
that troops shall be raised ; thai war snalt be de-
clared; and Congress must execute the Legisla-
tive decrees thus rasaed by the Executive. The
discretion of , the Executive is fbll, complete, and
of a Legislative nature ; the discretion leCt to
Conf(ress is only that which is incident to the ex-
A gentleman from Connecticut [Mr. Oooi>-
Bicnyhad said, however, that the Constitution,
by specifying those powers given to Congress, did
not mean lo draw the line between the powers of
the different branches of the Oeneral Oovernmeni,
of the Legislative and Executive departments,
but only to define the authority which was to be-
long to Ihe Qovemmeni of tbe Union, and to dis-
tinguish it from the powers lef^ lo the individual
States. To read the Cbnstilutioo was sufficicmt
to show that those powers were given solely and
exclusively to the Legislative branch. Bnt would
it be declared. Mr. Q. asked, would it be asserted,
by those gentlemen who had appealed lo the con-
temporaneous opinions of individuals and conven-
tions, that the people had ever supposed that the
Constitution, by oelegating the powers of war
and of raising moneys to the Legislature of the
Union, had only designed to mark the extent of
the authority given to the Qeneral Qovernmept,
and not lo ascertain with precision which of the
departments of thai Oovernment should exercise
iti Would it be insisted that it ever was the in-
tention of the people of tlie United States to in-
vest an anlimiied and uncontrolled power over
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mamch, 1796.]
TVBOly vith Great Britain.
[H.ofR.
the parse tnd the iword in the PsBaiDHUT aad | could teach
Senate t \ control.
Some atleniptx hare beea made, not to repel,
but to obscure, ia some de^^ree, Iha self-erideot
truth of thete proitoaitions. It had been said, that
the powar of makisf Treaties was not uQlimited;
for an unconstiiuiional Treaty coald doi ba made.
If, by an uncoDstiiutional Treaty, such one was
meant as acipulaled regulations on objects dele-
gated to Coagreu, then the doctrine would go
still fonher than the one contended for br the sup-
porters of the motion i for it would follow from
that position, that whenever a Treaty stipulated
a condition embracing an object on which Con-
gress had a Legislatire power, such Treaty could
uot, CTcn with the assent of Congress, be carried
into effect, since do constituted amhority could
gire effect lo what ther would admit to be an un-
coDstitationai act, whilst it was only insisted on
his side of the House, not that such a Treaty was
unconstitutional, but that the consent of Congress
was necessary to carry it into effect or make good
such a condition. To draw a line between some
powers of CoDgressand some others^ was not war-
> (Ejects irtiich Congress could not
Id fact, that argumeoi was nothing more than
position, which was taking for granted what re-
mained to be proved. It stated, that the Treaty-
5 power superseded the Lefcislatire, beca.use
extend farther, because it could bind auo'
ilion ; that is to sxy, that for the sake of ob-
; as a stipulation, that another nation would
ertain act, or would desist from doing a cer-
it, it bad the power to pledge the faiiE of the
American nati an, tnatacertainactsheuldbedone,
hich, not the Presiognt and Senate, but the Le-
alone had a Constitulioual power to do.
) precisely the point of discussion. It was
iposing the identical position on which they
differed, to wit, that the assent of a foreign
iir.
with that instrument, stipulate on certain objei
belonging to the Legislative jurisdiction of C(
gress, it must be conceded that it could stmulaie
on noue. But if it was declared that a Treaty,
embracing any objects whatever, submitted lo
the power of Congress by the Coustitution^ was
not unconstitutional, then the concession that an
UDconstitutional Treaty was void, did not change
tbe state of the question, and all the precedingar-
gumenta applied toit with equal force; since, not-
withstanding that pretended conceaiion, it did not
the less foUow that the Legislative power of Con-
grns was destroyed by the extent of jurisdiction
claimed in favor of the Treaty -making; power.
Indeed, whilst it was said that an unconstitutional
Treaty ms such a one as would change the Con-
stitution, as would, for instance, stipulate that the
Executive should hereafter exercise Legislative
powers; it was avowed that a Treaty made by
the PaBBiDCNT and Senate, which did assume
Legislative powers, which did actually legislan
on objects delegated to Congress, so far from be
ing uncoDstiintional, was binding on Congress
and even the stipulations embracing snch objects,
were the law of the land- Another argument bad
been used to weaken the position, that the Treaty
doctrine destroyed the Legislative power of Con-
gress, to wit T That the two powers were two dis-
tinct ones, operated in a different maoner and on
different objects. So fitr as they were really dis-
tinct, and Operated on objects exclusively belong-
ing to either, there was no difference of opinion
there could be no apprehension that they woulc
clash ; but the argument seemed to suppose that
they had a kind of concurrent jurisdiction over
the objects which might be embraced hy both
that the one acted by law, the other by compact
that tbe one operated only on American eittz^as,
whilst the other extended eren to foreigners, and
ight be substituted to that of the House of Re-
presentatives. It was supposing that a Treaty, be-
luse made in a different manner, was a di&Iiuct
ling from a law, at the same time that it attempt-
I to regulate the same subjects with the law: It
was saymg, that because a Treaty and a law dif-
fered, so far as related to another nation, they also
differed when doing or attempting to do the same
wit, to legislate on tbe Ameiican nation.
Supposing that there existed a concurrent juris-
diction, yet there is nothing in the Constitution
which decides which of the two powers shall be
paramount ; which supersedes the Other ; nor does
the principle, that a subsequeat law abrogates and
rcpmls all prior laws, apply to tbe present case,
and prove that a. Treaty must repeal conlraren-
ing laws which are opposed to it; for that princi-
ileis grounded nponanotherone, that an act may
le undone by those who have made it ; but never
vas it understood that an act done by a constitut-
ed authority could be abrogated by another Con-
stituted authority, unless it was p'Mitively express-
ed by the instrument wbich constituted both.
A Co:istitution could be repealed only by a
Constitution or by Constitutional amendments ;
a Treaty could be repealed only by ^e consent
of the pirtiea who had made it; a law could be
repealed only by a law. It was as absurd to say
that a Treaty could repeal a law, as to say that
a law could repeal tbe Constitntionj But if nei-
ther power was paramount, bow could it be sup-
posed that they had concurrent jurisdiction? Was
It not contradictory to say, that the Constitution
had vested in Congress the power of laying by
law, a duty of 25 per cent, on a certain species
of goods, and, in the Phbsident and Senate, that
of laying, by a Treaty of Commerce, a duty of S
per cent, on the same species of goods, and that
both powers could operate together ; that the last
could be carried into effect whilst the first was
still in force? Was it not absurd to suppose, that
the Constitution had vested in Congress the pow-
er of declaring war, by law, against England, and
at tbe same time, in the Pbesioent and Senate,
that of stipulating by Treaty of Alliance with
England, that America should unite with that na-
tion against France, and, that both Powers could
operate together, that the war could be carried on
at the same time in eoncerl with and against both
.dbyGoogle
HISTOBY OF GONGflES&
,rR.]
TVcoty vitk Gnat BrUam.
[Makcb, 1796.
nauoQs 1 The two powers cannot operate on
the same objects, unless ihey have a concurrent
jtuisdiction, unless one of the two ba patamouat
and supersede [he other, vhen they shall clash; ot
unless the conseat of both be made necessary in
such ease. Neithec can it be supposed to be para-
mount, uoless it be eipreuly so declared by the
Consti^utioo i aod if there be nosuch declatalioa.
the CoDStitulion must receive a coostructioo
which will destroy neither. Thus, in whatever
view this argument be cMiteniplated, it leaves the
subject of discussion piecUely in the "'""
tion where it was-
But some geatlemeu, apparently struck with
the absurdity of the doelrine contended for, had
declared, that there was acertain discretion in the
Houee, .that in extreme Cftses, io ihosecases where
a Treaty was concluded by fraud,
fecla would ruin the oaiioD. as such Treaty was
not considered as biudingby the Law of Nations, the
House,aa a branch of Congress, had a right to refuse
to carry it into effect. If those gentlemeD meant
that the House were judges of those extreme cases,
where they might exercise their discretion, and
bad innexed no condition, had laid no restraint
upon iheir judgment thereon, they would be near-
ly agreed with themselves i as every member of
tois House would, according to his owa sense of
propriety, decide .whether the case was such one,
as It was right to exercise his discretion or not ;
but. in fact, the disoretiou allowed amounted to
notiiing more than this, that in 'those cases where
a Treaty was null by the Law of Nations, the
House wereat liberty (a say^ whether they would
abide by it or got ; but that la all other caaes, al-
though it might embrace Legislative objects, it
was binding upon Congress, and that they were
bound to execute it, unless they chose to break a
compact, to be guilty of a breach of faith. The
st^posed cnicessioa'Conceded nothing.
Mr. G., hoped, that from *he review he had
t^en of the ccmsequences flowing from the Trea-
ty doctrine, and of the arguments used to eontro-
TBrt those -consequences, it must satisfactorily ap-
pear, that their objections to that doctrine did not
rest on the ground that the power of making Ti
dangerous, buttliai it was uncoruUtutioaal .
much as its.operation would supersede and anni-
hilate those clauses of the ConsCilution, which
vaated specific powers in Congress. He would
now proceed to eatablish his second position, that
the construction given to the OonMitution, by the
supporters of the moikin,didaot destroy the Trea-
ty-making power, but left it a suffisieut Geld of
Although the rerene bad been repeatedly as-
serted, no argument that he recollected, had been
advanced, on that head, by the gentlemen who op-
posed the motion, except what had faJlen from a
gentleman from Mary laud, to wit, that if ii was
admitted, that a Treaty depended, for its validity,
on a condition which the House might refuse to
carry into eBectj that Treaty could not be consid-
ered asmadt without their conaeBt,and that of
course, tbaido«ti4ne imfdied in the House a right
of co-operating in making Treaties, which vras
contradictory to the clause of the Constitution,
that vests the power of making Treaties in the
PafeiDEHT and Senate. This was a mere criti-
cism on the meaoing of the word " make f and
supposed that the discretionary right of making
good a condition of the Treaty, was a part of the
act of making a Treaty.
Without entering into an elaborate discu^ision
of the meaning of the word, Mr. G., obaerred,
that it would be sufficient to mention, that it was
expressly declared by the Constitution, 1st. That
Congressconsisiedof a Senate and House of Rep-
reseoiaiivea, which implied that the Prbsidbht
was no part of Congress : 2dly. . That Congrei*
had power to make laws ; (sect. 8th of 1st. ait.)
3dly. That the PBseiDBMT had, however, a co-
operating power in enacting laws j from whence
it resulted, that in the Constitution, the word
" make " was sometimes used in a modified, and
not in an absolute sense.
That the power claimed by the House did not
destroy that of making Treaties, could be proved,
in a direct way, by the following considerations:
Isi. So far as related to -Treaties of Peace,
which contained no condition of territory, of a
payment of money, or otherwise of a Legislative
iiaiure, (and by recurring to the Treaties of chat
speoies, concluded by the British aation, it would
be found that the greatest number contained no
such conditions,) the power of the Executive re-
mained entire.
2dly. Whenever Treaiies of Commerce, Navi-
gation, &c., stipulated on those points on which
the Law of Nations does not interfere with, or
control the municipal laws of individual nations,
all such stipulationa were out of the sphere of ae-
*" of the Legislative power, became a modifi-
)n of the Law of Nations, and a law of the
land, from the moment the Treaty was promul-
gated. The law which regulated the reapective
duties of civilized nations, whether grounded on
natural rights and duties, or on common con-
sent, was, within its sphere, paramount to the mu-
nicipal laws of any nation, and no nation could
infringe it in those respects, witbaul dedariag it-
self at hostility with the whole civilized world.
Treaties, which defined and modified thai law.
became a part of it, and must necessarily eoatrol
the municipal lawi of the contracting nations.
Within that class, might be included ali those cod-
ditioD$,wbichprovided for thecasesof shipwrecks,
salvage, assistance to be given vessels driven iit
ports, and all the duties ot neutral oalioDs within
their territory. But that law, and the Treaties
made in pusuance thereof, extended to a number
of objects, which the Legislative jjower of qo
country did embrace. Such were the use of what
belonged to all, of the sea, and consequently the
rights of fisheries, &.c. Such again were the
provisions regulating the duties and rights of neu-
tral nations, in their intercourse, out of their own
territory, with nations at war; which included
all the stipulations relating to what should be
deemed contraband goods, to the question whether
.dbi<G00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March 17U6.J
TVeo/y with Grtat Britain.
fH.oi-R-
free bottams .should make free goods, Sua, al!
whicbobJFcis,aDda Tarteiyorgthemcorairig witb-
in ibe same description, did solely belong to that
braocb of the G^iveromi'ai, in.tvaom was vested
(he power of makinfr Treaties.
3ily. The eiitensn-e raiwe left to the Treaty-
makiug power would be slill more enlarzeil, if col
from ine letter, at least from The Decessury ope-
ration of OUT Cuusiitution. Whenever a Treaty
stipulated, not that the Legislature aliould do cer-
Uiu acts, but that they should not hereafter do
certain acta; for instaoce, that they should notin
crease the duties upon iin porta tioDs, that (hey
sliould not KequeMer privaie properly, &c.; al-
though Mr. G,, was not prepared to say, that Boch
a coodition was binding upon the oatiuD and Con-
Bess, yet he would not hexitate to assert, that the
juse bad not the power to impede its execution.
To prereat the execution of suub a stipulation, it
would be ueoesiary that a law, contraTeoiair the
eoudilion, should be passed. The House of Rep
resentatives, being but ooe of the branebes of the
Legislature, miglu prevent the paHsiajc of a law.
but could Qot enact one, without the cqds«ii of
the other branches. The negative of the Senate,
of that body who had advised and consented to
the supulati.-iD, would always be sufficient to pie-
veut such a taw from passing, and therefore to
carry into effect conditions of tbal nature. '
To conclude, the power claiued by the House
was not that of negotiating- a ud proposinji Trea-
liesj it was not an active aud operative power
of making and repealing Treaiiet i it wai not a
power wbich absorbed and destroyed the Consti-
luiiooal right of the Phesident and Senate to
make Treaties J it was ouly a negative, a rettraiit^
iog power on those subjecu over which Congreu
had the ri^bt to legislate. On the contrary, the
power claimed for the Pbebiuent and Senaie, is,
that under color of making Treaties, of propo»-
ing and originaiing laws, it is an active and o|ie^
raiive power of making laws, and of repealing
kws; :tJK a power which supersedes aaii annihi'
lateiitbeCoDEiiiulional powers vested in Congress.
It it was asked, in wbatBitoation a Treaty was,
which had beeoniadeby the PREaioGN'mndBeo-
aie, but wbicb contained stipulations on Legisla-
tive objects, until CoDgresshad carried them into
efieci 1 Whether it was the law of the laud, and
binding vpon the (wo nations? Mr. G.j said he
might answer, that such a Treaty was precisely
in tne same situation with a similar one conclua-
ed by Great Britain, before Parliament bad carri-
ed ii into eOVct.
But if ii direct answer was insisted on, ho would
tay, that it was, in some reKpecia, an inchoate
act. It was tbelswof the land and. binding upon
the American nntion in nil it* parts, except no far
as related to those ^tipulalious. Itsfinalfaleincase
of refusal, ud the pait of Congress, to carry those
stipulations Into cffteci. would depend on ine will
of the olhernation. If thry were. satisfied that
the Treaty should sulfiHi, although Pome of the
original conditions sboutd not be fulfilled on our
part, ibe whole, fxce|il those Biipulaliot^s embrac-
ing Legislative ubjecis, might remain a Treaty.
4lb Coa.--25
But if the other Datioa diose not to be bound thef
were ai liberty to say so, and Ibe Treaty would
be defeated.
He would not tire any lon^rer the patience of
the Committee i and, as it was a late hour, he
would drop what furiber obKChaiioos be bad lo
make oa the subject ) hut he could ool Eit down
without animadverting on what had so frequently
been hinted, and even mentiooi'd during ihede-
bale, that the effect of adopting the rewlution
was " war and disorganization." At no time and
on no subJFCt was the cry of the alarmisLn less ap-
plicable. Wee the Treaty itself to be rejected
war would not be the eoosequence ; but, in that
case, we would remain in the Fame situation in
which we h&ve been since ibe Treaty of 1783.
But the present quesiiao was not a question on
ibe adoption or rejection of the Treaty. Some
{ten tie men, from their earnestnetit to carry a favor-
ite measure, might have blended their wishes on
that subject with the merits of the present ques-
tion i but they had no right to iinpuie laoiiveB of
a similar nature to those who diSered in opinion
wiih them. As to the Treaty iisell, he might
have his own feeling, his own prejudices ; but
he hoped they would nut govern htm on a iinal
decision on ttut solemn occasion. Wbeifaer, un-
der the present circumstances, it would be expe-
dient loearry that compact into effect, was not
the present questiiHi, and he was not himself ready
to decide. In giving his vote in favor of the mo-
tiou, he did not consider himselt pledged to vole
a^inst the Treaty ; and when that question came
before them he weuld be perfectly open to every
argument of expediency which might be oQeretl
its favor.
But it had been said that the present motion,
and some of the arguments advanced to support
it, bore the smiearaiice of a wish to subvert our
Constitution. The assertion was justifiable, neither
by the nature of the discussion, which was only an
investigation of an important Constitutional point,
r by the arguments brought by those wbo were
favor of the motion, nor by tlie temperate man-
r in which they bad conducted the debate.
Those, Mr. G. said, wi^ht be biauded with th«
epithet of di'orgaQizeri who thnatined a dissolu-
tion of the Union, in caM the measures ih^y dic-
tated were not obeyed; and he knew, altbougk
be did not ascribe it toany member of this House,
that men high in-uSce and reputation had ii>du»>
iriously spread an alarm that the Union would
be dissolved if the present motion was rarried.
On such a conduct he would make no commeoiR.
So far a." he knew bis own seniimeuis ; so far aa
he knew the sentiments of those be was-now act-
ing with ; so far as he knew the seniiineais tf
the people of America, he was convinced tha|. to
preserve the Union, and that g'<D( bond of union,
the Constitution, was the primuiy ubjict wilb
all } that, in order to prei^erve it, they 'would sup-
port the constituted authurilirs of the nation, and
t,uhmit on th:» and on any futuie ucca.sion lo the
public will, as expressed by the voice of the ma-
Mr. Cooper rose after Mr. Gali^tm, fur the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
aorR.]
Treaty with Gnat Britain.
purpose of inquiring if he had taken correctly an
idea that was urged with ereat force by that gea-
tlemas, which was, that it was highly improper
to call on the Representatives present, who assist-
ed at framing the Coostilulion, to declare what
the construction of that body was of the Treaiy-
makinir power ; for, says he. w^hy travel back for
this ibiormation 7 We have the CoDstitution be-
fore us, and from the instrument the explanation
must be drawn. . Why then does the scope of the
gentleman's areument go to demand those papeis
out of which the Treaty hath arisen 1 Why not
explaiOj on the gentleman's own prindples, the
Treaty by the instrument itseln It seems to me,
said Mr. C, that there is a manifest inconsistency
in the gentleman's reasoning, unless he means
to destroy his principle by his doctrine; in that
case it is proper.
Mr. Htspeit rose and observed, he should not
consider himself as having discharged his duty to
the public, did he suffer the quesdon to be taken
without any observations being made on what
had been advanced by the nlember las tup from
Pennsylvania ; and he was the more willing to
take this task on htmseU', as the debate had taken
ft turn altogether different since he first had the
honor of addressing the Committee on the sub-
ject of the present resolution.
. [Here there was some noise in the Committee,
and a call for order; on which Mr. H. observed.
that he should not ask for order ; that, if he could
not command it, he hoped be should have thi
KOod sense to uaderrtand the lansuage of the
Committee and be silent ; and, white he could
engage attention he would continue his remarks.]
Mr. H. went on to observe, that, when he had
formerly been up on this question, the only dis-
cretion claimed on the part of the House, by the
supporters of this resolntion, was a discretion '
witnhold its- aid, wher« Legislative aid was i
quisite, in carrying Treaties into effect. He had
opposed the resolution on this ground, that the
pkpers to be called for were not necessary for en-
abling the House to execute this discretioik ; that
their decision on it was to be guided by the in-
strument tiselfj and not by the instructions or the
previous neeotiatioDs, the call for which implied
an opinion that the House had a riglkt, not oiily tc
determine whether it would co-operate in carry-
ing a Treaty into effect, but also to interfere in
making Treaties. The supporters of this motion
finding, as he supposed, thai the discretion to re~
fuse or give the aid of the House in carrying
Treaties mtoeffiei, would not justify the call for
papers, had immediately changed their ground,
and asserted a right to interference in making
Treaties. The honorable member from Pennsyl-
vanift,[Mr. Gallatjit,] to use his own expression,
had come boldly out and asserted, "that a Treatv
is not valid, does not bind the nation as such, till
it has received the sanction of the House of Re-
[iresenta lives." On this point a very able and
ensthy debate had arisen ; and, in the close of il,
the honorable member had collected all his force
to sup[iort this principle, that a Treaty is incom-
plete, is an inchoate thing, till il '
ine and authority, and from thence had
very auy deduced conclusioas, some of which
were solid, all of which were ingenious, and all
.teserving of serious examination.
The observations, he said, of the honorable
member had been directed to two points: First,
that a Treaty, ihousrh ratified by the Pbgsident
and Senate, with all the forms of the Constitu-
tion, does Qot become complete and valid as such,
does not in fact become a Treaty, till passed by
this House. Secondly, that a Treaty, whea com-
pletely made, cannot repeal or supersede an ex-
isting law.
The first position he had supported by various
arguments, drawn from the Law of Nations, from
out own Constitution, and from the practice of
other Governments.
The auihorities cited from the Lawof Nations.
Mr. H. said, from Vattel, prove that, in limited
Governments, the power of making Treaties may
be limited ; tnat, when a nation bestowed the
Treaty-making power on any branch of its Got-
ernment. it might bestow it under various limita-
tions. Of this, said be, no body could doubL No-
body could doubt that the American people might,
when they were fomring their Constitution, have
bestowed this power onany other branch of the
Government, or under any bind or number of re-
strictions! butthe question was, had ihey restrict-
ed il 1 Nol what they could do, but what they
did. And this led to a consideration of the Con-
stitution itself.
The ConsliluTion gave the power of making
Treaties to the Prbbident and Senate ; the pow-
er of making laws, the whole Legislative power
delegated to the Government, was given to Con-
gress. There was no direct, express restriction
to the Treaty-making power; but an indiieet,
implied restriction was contended for from the
Luislative power,
lu order lo discover how far these powers could
restrict each other, it was necessary to inquire
how far they might interfere ; and that inquiry
would lead us to consider the nature of Treaties
and the nature of laws, the origin from which
each is derived, the objects on which they act,
the manner of their operadou, the purposes for
which tLey are intended, and the elTects which
they are able to produce. If it should appear that
in all these respects they were different, that they
could neither produce the same effects, operate in
the same manner, nor effect the same objects, it
would follow that they moved in different spheres,
in which each operated nnconirollably and su-
preme, could neither encroach on, interfere with,
or restrict each other.
Treaties, he observed, then, derived their origin
and their existence from the consent of equals;
laws from the authority of a superior. The form-
er were compacts, the latter commands. Treaties
derived their sanction from good &tth, from na-
tional honor, from the interest of the parties to
observe them : laws derive their sanction from
the authority of the community, which enforces
.d by Go Ogle ■
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 1796.]
Treaty v>ith Great Britain.
[H.orR.
their observunce and punishes disobedicDce. A
Treaty sdpulates Ehal a tbiog shall be done, a law
commands ii. A Treaty of consequence may
stipulate that a iaw !<hall be passed^ buf it cannot
pes3 a law ; that belongs to the Leaislative power.
A Treaty inay agree thai a tax sRall be laid, or a
crime shall be punished ; but it canoot laythe lax or
inflict the punishment— I hat must be done by a law,
and is the exclusire province of the Legislative
power. Suppose a Treaiv should stipulate tftat
ten per cent, additional duty shoulj be laid oQ
goods imported in Swedish vessels : will any one
say that the revenue officers could gO on and col-
lect the tluty without a law? Surely not. The
faith of the nation is bound, and the Legislature
is under all that obligation to pass the lew, which
results from considerations of good faith, from the
necessity of observing Treaties ; but still the ef-
fect cannot be produced, the duty cannot be col-
lected, till a law is passed. So, if a Treaty should
. stipulate that certain acts should be punished with
fine, imprisonment, or death, could indictments
be founded on the TreatT, and the punishment be
inflicted without a law? Certoinly not. ■Trea-
ties, therefore, can never, in their nature, operate
as laws, can never produce the effect of legisla-
tion : they are compacts and nothing more, and,
ii the BpLiereofcompacts,lhey are supreme and un-
limited. They may bind the nation, may lay the
Legislature under the obligations of good faith;
but they. cannot encroach on the LegMalive pow-
er, cannot produce a Legislative effect. ■
A distinciiou here ought to be observed be-
tweeu the Law of Nations and the Municipal
Law. The former is the province of Treaties,
the latter of the Legislative power. The Law of
Nations is made of compacts, express or implied ;
of Treaties which are direct declarB.tian9 of the
consent of sovereign Stales, and of customs which
t upon the general consent of nations, implied
from long acquiescence. In all subjects, then, re-
lative to the Law of Nations, to matters external,
to the conduct of nations towards each other.
Treaties are laws, and produce immediately ana
indirectly the effect of laws. As soch, the Ma-
ritime tITouitE, which are guided by the Law of
Nations, are bound to take notice of them and
enforce them. Tbis waa from the necessity of
the case, beekuse the matters on wDich the Law
of Nations operates lie beyond the reach of'ordl-
nary legislation, without the inrisdiction of indi-
vidual States, and consequently can only be regu-
lated by laivs derived from the general consent of
nations, of whicii Treaties form o part. But, as
to the municipal laws, he said the case was diSer-
em. They afieeted objects within the jurisdic-
tion of the respective sovereigns, and belonged
exclusively to the Legislative power. These
Treaties lost their character of laws, and became
merely coTiipacis, binding on the good faith of the
nation, but depending for their elecution on the
acts of the Legislative authority.
Thus, he said, il appeared that the Treaty-mak-
ing and Legislative powers being each supreme in
ihi'ir resiK'OCive orbiw. could not interfere with or
restrict each other. Doth compacts and lawsare
necessary to be made ; both are essential lo the
attainment uf those advantages which result from
civilized society; and the power of making each
m«5l exist in every Government. In ours these
powers are placed in different departments, which
must sometimes co-operate, in order to produce
the desired effects, but neither could execute the
business of the olher. The Legislature could not
make a compact, nor could the Treaty-making
power make a law. It rqay stipulate, and very
often must stipulate, that a thing requiring a law
shall be done, but this dues not render the law less
.ry, and can be no more considered as an
n of the Legislative power, than a law di-
recting a compact to be made with a foreign na-
tion, aa an invasion of the Treaty-making power.
The law would not produce the effect of a T)fea-
;nder the agency of ihe Treaty-makjng
power less necessary.
Whence then, he demanded, these alarms about
the encroachments of the Treaty-making power?
Whence these outcries about the subversion of
all Legislative authority in Congress? Whence
these phantoms conjured up to fngbten us. out of
put reason nnd common sense ? This Treaty-
making power, so much the object of gentlemen's
apprehensions, this devouring monster, before
which the rights of this House, Ihepower.solCon-
greKS, and the liberties of the people, axe lo fall
and be extinguished, appears on examination to
be the most harmless ofpowers— apower tomake
compacts which must depend for ineir execution
1 the aid of the Legislature — a power, therefore,
; all times, and, of necessity, imder Legislative
control in alt its most essentia! and important op-
erations. He therefore contended that the Trea-
ty-making power was free and unrestricted in the
President and Senate ; so that a Treaty, when
ratified by them as the Constitution requires, be-
came complete in its own nature, perfect as a
Treaty, without the concurrence of the House of
Representatives ; bound the faith of the nation as
completely as a Treaty can hind il, and that the
House of Representatives had nothing to do with
it, but to con^det whether and how far they they
could carry it tuto effect. In ibis, and tbis alone,
their agency was necessary ; and here, from the
nature df the thing, they had a free agency.
Some gentlemen had said that the House was
bound to carry a Treaty into effect. But howwas
it bound? fiy a superior and external force acl-
it is bound by considerations of good faith, by con-
siderations of duly and propriety, by the obliga-
tion to do right, by the responsibilily of each mem-
ber to himself, his constituents, and the public.
But who is to judge what is right ; what good
faith, pnbtic good, and moral obligation prescribe ?
Each individual must judge for himself^ and must
act according to his own scale of the force of the
motives. The motives which induce to ihe eie-
cution of Treaties are always of a very forcible
nature, and generally altogether conclusive. When
the question is, shall a thingbe done, il having
been agreed lO W done by a Treaty, the naiioniu. .
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HISTORY OF CONGHESS.
7S8
Trtaiy uith Grtat Brilain.
[Ma,
3.1796.
and with ail persons, be s powerful reason lor it
in almosi ^very case the reasoa would be cooclu
•ive, but still there are cases ia which tl would
not be coDclusive ; and when a case occursg each
iodiTidiul must jud^ for himself whether it is of
that description or not.
Much of the alarm, he said, which geallemeii
bad felt, manjr of ihe mistakes into which they
had I'elleQ, arose from their forgetli&g the dislinc-
' tion between making a contract and eiecutiog it.
The first belonged to the Treaty-making power,
the second to the Legislative ; but they had been
confounded together, ind gentlemen had imagi
ed that, because the power of making nation
ttipulalioQs was asserted to beloDg, without i
•trlciion, to tbe PREaiocHTapd Senate, the power
of doing the things stipulated was also claii '
but ihese powers were as ^iAtiact as the i
pviug a bond and the act of paying it. Suppoite,
said be, T give a ronnapowerorattorney to makr
a coDtiact in my name, will he have tbe power ti
take my property and deliver it in execution of
the contract 1 Surely not. The contract must.
be fulfilled by me. The difference between me
and a community is, that the laws will compel
me to fulfil tbe contract; will judge for me, and
take away my free agency ; whereas the commu-
nity has no superior by wooin it can be conipelled;
but must judge fur itself, and therefore remains a
free agent, impelled only by the moiives which
ezift for doing or withboldiog the act.
As 10 examples drawn from other Gove
Hr. H. said, he would admit it to be a fair mode
of reasoning, though by no means concluHve. As
far as it could be conclusive, it wnf perfectly fair
to draw eiarajiles from Grovernments, wnicb,
though very different from our own, were yet id
■ome particulars analogous. The Brilish (Govern-
ment, he said, which bad been recurred to for ex-
amiiles, was indeed widely different from ours,
ana he most heartily joined thi' honorable member
from Virgiuia [Mr. Giles] In his hope that it
might neter become less so. There were, how-
ever, some pointf of similarity, and the exam-
ples be would allow to have weight as far as ibey
apply.
What, then, do these examples prove? That
the British House of Commons have ever exer-
cised or ever claimed a right to inlerfvre in mak-
ing Treaties) have ever jiretcoded that a Treaty
was not valid : that it was only an inchoate thing,
to use the expression of tbe honorable member
from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Gallatin,] till ihey bad
given their itanctionl That it was not a Treaty,
thaugb ratified by the King^ill ihey had pas.-<ed
uponil? No such thing. They prove tliat the
House of CoraiDons claim the riglit. and that
alone, of concurring in laws to carry the Treaty
into effect. In deliberating upon luis question,
Ihey regard it, as we contend this House ought to
do, as a Treaty binding the national faith, and
this consideration is always conclusive with them
to pass the necessary laws. Always, said he, for
no contrary instance can be produced, onu he
challenged gentlemen to produce one; their zeal
and industry would bring it to their knowledge if
such a one did exist, and he challenged them to
produce one in which the Briliah ParTUment has
refused te execute a Treaty, their consent to which
was not made a condition in the Treaty itself.
The Treaty of Utrecht ii> produced as an instance.
But that proves nothing. The Treaty of Utrecht
contained two commercial nrticleis and it was a
condition expressed in the Treaty itself that those
articles should become parts of it, should be bind-
ing, when tbe British Parliament should pass law*
in conformity to ibem. Tbe House of Com-
stilution, hut from the T.eaty itself, which had
made their consent to the condition on. which it
should become obligatory. Such conditions, ia-
deed, he taid, were not unusual in British Treaties
of Commerce. Tiiere waK a similar oue in die
Commercial Tieaiy with Spain, concluded at
Utrecht about ihe same time, and in the Trraty
concluded with France in 1786. But he again
challenged genilemea to produce an instance ia
which the British Parliament bad refused (o pan
laws in aid of a Treaty completely and uneoadi-
lionaily ratified. And if they bad refused, still it
would prove nothing in favoi of the position which
gentlemen contend for. It woi^d prove that tbe
Parliament might refuse to execute a Treatf,
which nobody denied) but not that the consent of
the House of Commons was necessary in making
a Treaty. We all admiiied here that Congresi
may refuse to execute a Treaty, but, we conieod
that it has nothing to do with making the Treaty.
Thus, in the ra<t cited from tbe British Parlia-
ment by a gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr.
SwANWicK-] In theeaseof the Treaty lately made
with this country, tbe same disiinclioa waa tnan-
ifest. The King, in his Speech, letla thp Com-
mons that. as soon ns ratifications wereeichaoged,
he would !hv the Treaty before ibera. For wbal
purpose ? Thai they m^ht ratify it?. That they
might consider whether it should be a Treaty ut
not? By no means; but that they might con-
sider of the propriety of carrying it into eSecL It
was then a Treaty without their assistance; the
compact ws« completely made, and binding on the
nation, and they were called upon lo execute iL
TiTi tfaerelore, an .honorable member from
- -- — -,-_, in necesiary in making
Treaties, what is the papej now lying on the ta-
ble, and purporiing to be a Treaty with Great
Britain, with Algiers, with the Indiao tribes? It
was no answer to say they were tbe nme thin^
— Treaties laid before the House of Common:: in
eat Brjioin.nnd not confirmed by law; for
ealies laid before the House of Commons are
eaties, comrilete as such, before the House acts
upon them. The comrQct is completely made;
but it is the business of Parliament to cany it into
Vatlel. indeed had contradicted thia doctrine,
with rtspect 10 Treaties of subsidy, hut in this u
'" some ulber instances, he hadshowtd himueirto
ssess lens knowledge than reputuion. He bad
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
754
March, 1706.}
Trtaty vitk Gnat Britain.
aid thiit the King <rf Qmt BritaiD coufd
make Tteatiei d* sabsid)> without the coDcurn
ofParliameDt; and ihe reason he ai»i^pd Tor this
ti]>iDion was, that the Kiae could raixe no money
without the coaseni of PanianieDl. Here he Ibi-
got the distinction between 'raisiDK iDonej end
Uipulaling to pajr it — between maxing the con-
tract and eseciiiiDE it; and because the Ein|[
could Dot do one, he [herefore interred' he could
■ol do the other — an inference contrary toconstant
experience. Treaties of subs'idy, Mr, H.said,were
very frequent in Britain. Several had lately been
maile, and he ioslaneed thosewith Sardinia, Pras-
BiB, a»d some or the German Powers. Were these
Treatien laid before Parliament for their saniition?
No. Parliament was rudeed called on for money;
it was maile an item in the estimate of expences
for the year, and in that shape voted by the com-
mittee ofsapply. Mr. Fox, indeed, and Ms friend:),
once TDOTed to strike ool this item, 'and there wis
DO doubt that Parliament might have done so,
and refused the money. But what wtinld that
have n moan ted to? A breach of the Treaty ; not
a pnwf that it did not become a Treaty tiU Par-
liament concurred in it.
The Barrier Treaty between Holland and Eng-
land, in 1709, bad been cited on this snbject. It
had beet: adduced to show two things : First, that
Treaties were not completein England tijlaxreed
to by the House of Commons, and that the Hoase
could destroT a Treaty. This instance, he said,
iras pecutiarly unfortunate for those who adduced
it. Ibdthey attended a littlj more particnlarly
to the history of that transaction, they would have
foDod in it a complete refulalion of tralh their po-
sitifMis. The Barrier Treaty was made in Octo-
ber, 1709, and |t siipnbted that England and Hol-
land (hoald continue the war in which they were
engaged against France till they had attained a
certain object. The war was carried on for two
years under this Treaty. It had its fiill effect all
that time. A change in the Ministry then took
J lace. The Whig party, which acted under thi
luke of Marlborough, was turned onl, the Torie:
gained the ascendant in the House of Commons ;
their leaders. Lord Bolingbrolte and (he Eari of
Oxford, got possession of the Ministry, and being
resoWed to stigmatize and destroy their opponents
and predecessors, who had made the Treaty, Ihev
chose tnat as a proper engine by which to demol-
ish them. A tote of censure was passed on ih
Treaty. It was resolved that Lord Townsend, ii
making it, bad exceeded his instructions, and that
it was ruinous and (lisgraeeful to England. What
happened afier all this? The war went on ac-
eording tothe Treaty ; tbatrety Parliament grant
cd the supplies, and it continued in full operation
till two years afterwards, when it was done away
by the Treaty of Utrecht, to which Holland wa:
a party. Here, it appeared that the Treaty was
m fall operation two years before the resolaiioo);
for censuring it were passed, and continued in op-
eration Bome years after them ; and yet it had
been said tnat these resolutions prevented the ef-
fect of the Barrier Treaty j and. that Treaty had
been cited to prova that, by tbe British Conatilu-
tion. Treaties were incomplete till concurred in
by the Honne of Commons.
A further use made of this Barrier Treaty was
to prove that the HoUKe of Commons have a right
way wonderful, be said, that
this call was made, and that it was obeyed. Tbe
new Ministry, who had possession of these pa-
pers, and were desirous of making it an etigma
for destroying its authors, were themselves at th a '
head of the House of Commons, arid occaMoned
the call to be made. They very readily obeyed
^ight have been expected.
was worthy of remark, be said, that these
very ministers, who procured a vote ofcensnre on
the Barrier Treaty, batiisbed its authors, and alter-
ed it by the Treaty of Utrecht, were themselves,
the instant the breath was out of the Queen's
body, by whose confidence they had been support-
ed, not only driven from their places for maxinz
the Treaty of Utrecht, but banished, attainted
and their estates confiscated: and this by that
very House of Commons which had lately assisted
them in inflicting similar calamities on the oppo-
party. This might show ns how mnch ^a-
and consistency were to be found in the Bri-
tish House of Commons, and bow much respect
was due to precedents drawn from their proceed-
ings. Indeed, he said,thetew?re many reasons why
these precedents should have little weight with
Every body knew tbe history of tbe British
Constitution. It had been a constant subject of
contentioli, a continued siruegle for almost seven
hundred years, between tbe aiSerent departments.
This struggle ended in a conviction on the part
of the monarch that be could not govern to his
mind without possessing a complete command
over the House of Commons; and for the lest one
hundred years a system had been pursued which
bad fully produced that effect. The House of
Commons Had now notoriously became an imple-
ment in the bands of tbe Crown ; the instrument
by which 'the King and his Ministers effected
their purposes. The mandates of a British Min-
ister were as irresistible in tbe House of Com-
mons, as those of a Orand Vizier in the Turkish
and, the instant they ceased to be so, the
ither
t go out, and give plac
] govern the House. The c
mands of the King are absolute ; and though he
chooses to convey them in the style of politeness
and urbanity so properly recommended by the
honorable member from New York, they are not
the less absolute. It did not seem very just rea-
soning to conclude, that because the British King
is in ine habit of directing the House of Com-
mons to do certain things which he wants done,
the House bad a right to do the same thing In re-
spect to our Government.
The second position which the honorable mem-
ber from Pennsylvania [Mr. Gili.atih] bad at-
tempted to establish was, that Treaties cannot
repeal existing laws. He would observe, in the
first place, that this question was perfectly unne-
cessary to the present discussion ; because the
British Treaty, which bad giveit rise to the dia-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS;
H.ofR.]
TVeaiy vith Great Britain.
[Mas
1,1796,
cussioa was repugaant to do law of (be United
States ; this, he said, he undertook lo prDT« when
the Treaty should cume uiider consideration, and
to prove it to the aatisfaction of the two hoDorable
members themselves [Mr. Baldwcm and Mr. Gal-
latin] who had asserted the contrary. Thou^
lliey had sosiehow fallen into a misapprehension
on this salueci, he had such conHdence in ibeir
candor as 40 believe they would readily admit theii
own mistake when tbe truth should be placed be-
fore their eyes. At present it would be improper
to go into that investieation. la ihesecond place,
it DU^bt 10 be remarked, that this was purely a
judicial iqueatioa. The business of the Legisla-
ture WM to make laws; of the President and
Senate lo make Treaties ; but it belonged to the
Judicial power to decide about the effecl of laws
and Treaties after they should be made. He had
great doubts, he said, about this question ; and
should always think it proper to remove any laws
out of the way of a Treaty by a formal repeal ;
but still, if a case should occur in which a Treaty
stood opposed to a law, the Courts of Justice must
decide which would supersede the otber. Not-
withstanding, however, he did not think it neces-
tacy to decide this question here, or that such a
decision, if made, could or ought to have any ioflu-
- ence on the Judicial determination of it, yet as the
honorable member had made many observationi
to support the negative of the question, he would
not pass them by without remark.
To prove that Treaties could not repeat laws,
tbe hodorable member had adverted nrst to the
Commercial Tiealv with Prance, and secondly
to tbe Treaty ot Peace with Great Britain. Tbe
Cotametctal Treaty with France, he had said,
contained one stipulation repugnaut to the laws
of the Slates; it being provided by the 11th article,
that the subjects of France, though aliens, might
inherit lands, or receive them by devise or dona-
tion. Two of tbe States, the honorable member
had told us, Maryland and New Jersey, bad passed
lawsconfotmably tothisariicle: Marylaod in part,
and New Jersey completely. But what, said Mr.
H., does this prove? It proves that those two
States, and some others. Tor others also passed
laws on the subject, thought it proper to take away
all doubt on the point by express ac^. But does
this prove thai the Treaty would not have been
effectual without these laws 7 By no means ; for
many of tbe Stales passed no ^uch laws, and yet
the Treaty ^ad its operation ; it superseded and
repealed the lawswhich stood opposed to it. Tbe
honorable eentletnan had cited three instances *
which the Treaty of Peace was opposed to la'
of the States. One was the stipulation that tfat
should be BO impediment to the recovering- of
debts ; another, tliat there should be no future con-
fiscations. As to the first, he had asserted, that it
was not in fact a repeal of the laws prohibiting thi
recovery of debts, because those laws were con^
irary to the Law of Nations, which directs that,
after a war is over, debts contracted before it
should be recovered ; those laws, therefore, were
repealed and destroyed by the Law of Nations,
and not by the Treaty. But where, said Mr. H..
lid the honorable gentleman Jeam tbal the Law
if NatioDs could control or repeal the mnoicipal
aws of States? I wish to know where he found
his principle — a principle which I deny, and
vhlch is recoi^ised by no writer on the subject?
The Law of Nations can produce no such eBeci.
The municipal laws within their sphere are su'
preme ; and those laws of tbe States were repeal-
ed, not by the Law of Nations, but by tbe Treaty.
As to confiscation, the honorable member bad
taken much pains to show that do laws on that
subject were repealed by tbe Treaty of Peace ;
and his manner of proving this wascurious. Con-
fiscation laws were in force in most of the. States
when the Treaty was signed, and in most of them
many confiscations had actually taken place under
those iaws. The British were very aesirous not
only to prevent future confiscations^ but also to
obtain a restoration of property {ireviously confis-
cated. Tj Ihv first our CopimisiiiouMB readily
consented, and an article wa§ inserted to that
effect, which completely repealed the laws — com-
pletely, and that without Legislative aid, prevent-
ed future coDfiseatioiis. The second tney posi-
tively refused, alleging, and alleging truly, that.
tbev had no such power; that Congtess had no
suck power. No power to do what? To repeal
tbe confiscation laws 1 No ; that they aciaally
did ; for a law is completely repealed when its
operation and future effect is destroyed ; but no
power to divest rights acquired under a Uw ; no
power to alter what waa already done: and here,
ne said, lay tbe fallacy of the honorable member's
reasoning, in overlooking the distinction between
repealing a law, and divesliuE rights acquired un-
der it before the repeaL These two operations
were altogether distinct ; aitd a repeal never did
and never . could alter what had been done before
it. Suppose a law be passed imposing a penalty;
that the penalty is incurred, sued for, and recover-
ed ; and then the law repealed. C^n the person
from whom this penalty has been exacted recover
it back again in consequence of the repeal ? Surely
not. Suppose a land office be opened by a kw,
and lands granted, and then tbe law to bercpral-
ed; will this repeal destroy the grants ? Surely
not. When, therefore, the Commissioners declared
that they had no power to stipulate for ibe restora-
tion of confiscated property, they declared what
was strictly true, that they had no power, or Con-
gress either, to destroy rights acqmred under ex-
isting laws ; but did it fojlow from hence, he asked,
that they hadnopower,bya Treaty, to repeal those
laws? So far from it, that they actually did re-
peal them. The sixth nrticte stipulated that there
should be Qo future confiscations, and confiscations
ceased.
This doctrine, he said, of the repeal of laws by
Treaties, had been ably argued, and very fully
established on a very interesting occasion, by a
former Secretary of Slate, [Mr. Jepfebson,] whose
reputation for talents was high and universal. In
his correspondence with the British Minister, re-
specting tbe iaeitecutioa of the Treaty of Peace,
he bad expressly declared, '' that the repeal
of laws Goalrory to the Treaty, in the different
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
March, 17960
TVwtty with Great Britain.
[H.c
Sutes, \
the
B alt s
made bv Congress conformably to it, were supe-
rior to me laws of the StaEcs." And he cited the
opinions in writing of many eminent lawyers in
the various Stales, of an noaorable gemleman
from Virginia, [Mr. Monboe,] who now holds a
Terjr hig-h post under the Government, of a gen-
tleman equally respectable and distinguished from
Pennsylvania, and of a very eminent lawyer
from New York, to prove that in all the Slates
the Treaty was considered as repealing all taws
which stood opposed to it. He cited also the acts
and decisions of Courts to the same point ; all of
which conclusively established .the fact that the
Treaty of Peace had actually repealed the lawn of
the Slates wherever they came into opposition.
And yet, Mr. H. said, he doubted how far this
principle waa a just one. The auiboiities in sup-
port ol it were extremely strong, and certainly
would not be easily set aside ; but yet he doubiea.
The honorable member from Pennsylvania, id his
enumeratioa of instances in which the Treaty of
Feac« had repealed the laws of the States, had
forgotten or overlooked the most important one ;
that by which prosecutions were prevented for
acta done in the war. The sixth article provides,
"that there shall be no future confiscations made,
DOT any proae^ation commenced aaainst any per-
son or persons for or by reason of ttie part which
he or they may have taken iu the' nresent war ;
and that no person shall suffer on tnat account,
any future loss or damage, either in his per-
son, liberty, or property ; and that those who
may lie in confinement on such charges, at the
time of the ratification of the Treaty in America,
shall be immediately set at liberty, and i'
cutioQ so comneneed be discontmued.
were, he said,, in all the States, laws subjecting
persons to penalties of the highest nature for the
part they had taken in the war. All these laws
were instantly repealed by the Treaty, and nil
persons prosecuted under (hem immediately dis-
charged. In the State to which he belonged there
was an act called the Sedition Act, which made it
treason to lake up arms in behalf of the enemy.
Under this act, above thirty persons were under
prosecution in one Court, when the Treaty was
promnlgated. and they were all immediately dis-
chai^ed. Here the Treaty had repealed laws :
had arrested their progress in their most essen-
tial and important operation, the punishment ol
offences.
This, he said
was more recent, and, if pos-sible, loore conclu-
sive. Thc29tharticleortlieTreatyofCo
with France had stipulated that a von
should be made relative to consuls. This
lioQ was negotiated under the Confederation, but
concluded and ratified under the present Govern-
meat. It was promula:ated by the Prrsidrrt. it
a Proclamation not only of the same tenor, but ir
the same words, in which the late Treaties had
been announced. This convention invades the
laws ind the sovereignty of the cot
essential attributes. It establishes, by one article,
jurisdiction within our country, independent of
ir Courts ; it, by another, secures the person of
the consul from arrests, military duty, personal
taxes, and personal service, and their papers from
attachment. By a third, it-gives them complete
and exclusive jurisdiction over the vessels of their
nation, within our ports, and in the body of our
countries. By a fourth, they are enabled to arrest
persons in the country, under certain circum-
stances, confine them, and finally send them out
of the country ; and the twelfth article expressly
takes away the jurisdiction of our Courts in en-
forcing the payment of seamen's wages, and trans-
fers it to the consuls. Yet this convention, thus
contravening so many laws, thus Interfering with
our sovereignty in so many particulars, went
into complete effect, and continues so, without
y law of a State or the United States to repeal
those which stood in its way. It operated a re-
peal withoni the assistance of the Legistatore.
And yet he had doubts, he said, about the sound-
nesB of this doctrine, that aTreaty can repeal laws.
These doubts, however, wonid not prevail, this
doctrine recognised by all our Courts of Justice,
constantly and at all times acted upon by oar
Government, defended byour ablest statesmen and
lawyers, OUT most distingtiished patriots, would not
be set aside without much more forcible reasons
than those advanced against it by the honorable
member from Pennsylvania.
The result, he said, of the ideas which he had
submitted to the Committee, if they were just, was
that the Treaty-making and Legislative powers
were entirely diwtinct and independent. That
they moved in different- orbits, where each was
supreme and uncontrolled, except by its own na*
lure and the Constitution.' That the PREaincNT
and Senate under the Treaty-making power couIS
make all sorts of compacts. That Congress, un-
der the liegislative power, could make all lawn.
That these compacts, however, could never ope-
rate as laws, could never produce a Legislative
effei't, any more than a law could prodoce the
effect of aTreaty. That the Treaty-makius pow-
er therefore never could invade the LegiJative,
never could interfere with, or be restricted by it.
That Treaties when made and complete, as such,
were no more than Eieculory compacts, depend-
ing fur their execution upon the aid of the Legis-
lature, in givins which aid it must, from the na-
ture of things, be a free agent. Herein, he
hold the purse-slringsof the people, while no
Treaty could produce its effects without a law,
and that the concurrence of that House was ne-
cessary in passing the law, there could be no real
danger. Great, indeeii, was the responsibility
which those must take on themselves who should
refusfl in (hat House to execute a Treaty. Weighty,
indeed, must be the reasons which could induce
the Hou^c !o risk all the consequences which
muit be esperted to result from such a refusal.
Few, he believed, would be found hardy enough
.dbyGoogle
769
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
760
H.orK.j
TVtatji »Uh Great Briiam.
to ri>k them in ordioiry casn. la wme eawcs
ibry muat be ri>ke*J. &nd to decide what (hose
CB!(« are. ia an objoci of the mundeRt dincrelion.
Tbe Bubjecl, he baid, was capable of beiog placed
in manf olher interesting points of view, whicl.
the late hour of the day and the (treat length i>l
the discuuion then rendered improper. Some
Ihinga bad been Maid which he was sorrjr to hear ;
wbieb tended not (o «Dlighteri, but to irritate. He
would not now remark on them, because he wii^h-
•d and hoped that they mi|[bt be furgoituo, thni
they might pass iirto oblivios, and leave the field
open foT (ruth and good sense. All, he hop«il,
would inquire with care, and act for the pulilic
fpoA from the best of their judgment. In that
ease, their concluMoni would not be far wrong \
and if ihey should, he hoped and trusted, that
there was strength in the Constitution to correct
tbe error.
Mr. H. having sat down, the (question was taken
upon Mr. Livinoston's resoluiioo, which is in the
wofds following;
"AmJM, Tbadke pMident of lb« United Stales
be reqnntwl tn lay bafi>re this Houm a cnpr of tbe in-
■Iractiana to (be HiniMM of lbs United Btates, wbo
BSKotiated tba Treat? with tba Kii^ of Oleat Britun,
coinnan tented' by bis Message of the flisl of March, to-
gether with tba oomapondence end e(b«i docuniMits
Mbtive to the said Treaty ; eicei^g aach of taiil pa-
pen a* any eiiiting nsgotiation may render impraper
to be disdoeed."
The division on thia resolution, in Oommiltee
of the Whole, was — for the resolution 61, agai
Tbe reKilutioD was (hen taken up in the House,
and tbe yeas and nays being called upon it, were
taken, and stood yeas 62, nays 37, as follows:
Viisr— Tbeodorus Bailey, David Baid, Abraham
Betdwioi Lemuel Benton, Thomas Btonnt Richard
Bient. Natban Bryan, Dempary Bmgea, Samus' J. Ca-
bell, Gabnel Christie. Thomas Clatbonie, John Clo^
ton, iMac Colea, Hcniy Dnrborn, George Dent, CJabnsI
DunJi, Samuel Eatle, William Findley, Jesu Frank-
lin, Albert Gallatin, William B. Giles. Junes GiUespic,
Andrew Giegg, Christopher Grevnup, Wm. B- Grove,
Wade Hampton, George Huicock, Carter B, Hurisoni
JohnHatbom, Jonathan n.Hsvens, John Heath, Jamee
Holland, George JackHin Aaron Kilcbell, Edirsrd Liv-
ingston, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Samuel Ma-
dly, Msthaniel Macon, James Maduon John Milledge,
Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Antbony
New, John Nicholaa, Alexander D. Orr, John Page,
Joaeb Parier, John Patlon, PranciB Preston, John Rich-
udsiRobu Rnthertbrd, Jobn B.8berbume, larael Hmith,
Bamoel ttmith, Thomas Sprigg, John Swannick, Abaa-
lotD Tatom, Philip Van Corttandt, Joaeph B. Vanum,
Abraham Vanable, and Richard Winn.
Nira. — Benjamin Bourne, Theopbilua Bradbury,
Daniel Buck, Joahua Coit, Wm. Cooptic, Abiel Foeler,
Dnight Foster, Nathaniel Freeman, jr., Eiekiel GU-
bmrt,Nicbalaa Gilman, Henry Glen, Benjamin Goodhue,
Cbauncey Goodrich, Ro'-er Griswold, Robert Gioodloe
Harper, Thomas Hartley, Jamea Hillhouse, Wm. Hind-
tnno, John WilkeaKittera, Samuel Lyman, Francia Mal-
boQB, Wm. Vsna Murray, John Reed, Theodore Sedg-
wii^, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel
tenth, Isaac Smith, William Smith, Zephaoiah Swift,
Oenge Thatcher, Rii^rd Thomaa, Mark Tfaoeapsm,
Uriah Tru?, Jt^n E. Van Allen, Meg Widawoitfa,
Jtdin Wiiliama.
3, nafa37,ahaent5—
umber of Represeat-
ttiiv«106.'
Mr. DaVtoh, tbe Speaker, in Committee of the
Whole, voted Bcainst the re.olutioD.
Mabch S5.— The eommiitee (Messrs. Lhiho-
HTON and GALLATtn) appointed to present (he re-
lolutbn agreed to yesterday to the Pbebioent,
tepor(ed. ihtX (be PBEeineNT answered, that he
would take the resolution iciDcoosideratioD.
March 30.— Tbe following Message was re-
ceived from (he PaEeiDEMT in answer 10 the reao-
luiion of tbe House:
Ctntltmtn of the Houtt i^ KtitrettntaUte* ■•
With the ntnoat attention I have considered yonr
resolution of the !I4th instant, Tequeiting me to lay be-
fiire your House a copy of tbe iiutmctionBtotbe'Miaie-
ter of the United Sutea, wbo negotiated tbe Treaty wiA '
the King of Great BrilaiititogethM with the cone^ond*
auce and other doenmenia nlative to that Trea^, el-
ecting each of tbe aatd papers as aay enstiog Degoti-
ation ma^ rendei improp^ ta be diadoaed.
Id deliberating upon tliis subjeoti it was iaqXNaiUe
for me to lose sight of the principle which aotna have
avowed in its ^scossion, or to amid Qitanding mj
views to the consequencrs which mnal flow bom the
admiasion of that principle.
I trlut that no part of my condoct has ever indicated
a diapoeition to withhold any inJbrmaCioQ which the
Conatitution baa enjoined upon the Presidi^it, as a duty,
to give, or which coold be required of him by either
House of CToogrenaa a tight; and, witbtniih,! afiirm,
(bat it baa been, ai it will continue to be, while I have
the honor to preside in tbe Government, my constsnt
endeavor to barmooixe with tbe otbor brancbea thereof
so br as tbe tmat delegated to me by tbe petqile. of tbe
United Btatea, and my sense of the obligtfion it im-
poses, to " preserve, prolact, and defend the Cimatitn-
tion," will permiL
Tbe nature of foreign oegotiatioaa leqairea oulioD ;
and their tucceae must often depend on tortecy; and even,
when brougbl to a conclnBion,a fiilldisclosnreof all tbe
meuurei, demands, or eventual concessions which may
have been proposed or contemplated would beeitreme-
ly impolitic : tor this mighl have a pernicious influenoe
in future negotiations ; or produce immediate inoonw
niences, perhaps danger uid niiicbiet^ in relation to
other Powers. The necesai^ of such caution aid se-
crecy waa one cogent reason for vesting the power of
making Treaties in the President with tbe advice
and consent ot the Senate; the principle on which the
body was Ibrtoed confining it to a small number of
members. To admit, then, a tight in tbe Hcuse of
Representatives to demand, and to have, aa a matter of
coarse, all tbe papers respecting a negotiation with a
broign Power, would be to astablish a dangerom pie-
It does not occur that the inspection ot the paper*
asked for Can IM rdetive to any poipoae under the cog-
nizance of the House of BepresentatiTee,eicq>t that oi
an impeachment; which tbe reaolution has not er
,db,Googlc
HiSTOHT OP CONGRESS.
Mah(
I, 1793.]
TmAy vith Gnat Britain.
[H.opR-
•ad. In betiiU tbapapanafiaotiof dia nagotittwD nUh
Omu Britein wor bid btfara th* SgtnU, tihan Uu
Tnalcj iMIf ma eoMiwiniftod Sbr ttieir eonaidention
and adiioa.
Tim courar whidi ths debala haa takan on tho nao-
iDtioQ of tbe Hook, leada lo acHoa obaamtioaa on the
raodo of making Traatiaa undei the CooatilUtion of the
• United Slalca.
Having been a motohBi of tha Gtnenl ConTentioa,
and knowing Ihe princtplea an which the C(H»titutiaii
>raa Ririoed, 1 have ever entertained but one apiDion on
dkia inbiect, and from the fint Mtabliihment of the.
GoTemment to ths moment, m; conduct hu exempli-
fied that opinion, that tb« power of making IVeatisK ia
eidoaitriy Tested in the nendent. by end with the ad-
rioa and conaeitl of the Benate, provided two-thirds of
be Senatoi* preaent conear ; and that everj Treat; ao
mado, and pmrnnlgated, thenceforwaid bMODwa the
law of ths land. It ia thus that the 'IVeatj-making
power haa bean andantood by foreign nationa, and in
all the Troat'wa made with tbem, loe haie declared, and
tkm hara baUared, that when tatiSed by the Preaident,
with thoadiica aadMnaantofthe 8eniil«,thBy baoome
obligatory. In thia conntiuction of the Conatilution
araiy Houae of Bepteaanlstima haa heielobia acqai'
aaced, and until the preaent lime not a doubt or aiupi-
don has appeared to m; knowledge that thia conatrae-
fion was not the true one. Nay. they bsTs more than
acquiesced ; for nnti* now, withont eontroTerting the
obligation of such Treaties, they hare made all the re-
quiule proTiuans for canjiDg them into eflect.
There ia also reaaon tu beUsre that thia constmction
agrees with the apiniona entertained by the SLats Con-
lentions, wihen they were deliberating on the Conititu-
tioQ, eapeciatly by thoae who nbjected to k, because
there ««» not raqnir^ in Cotomercis] Treaties the con-
sent of two-thirds of the whole number of the meinbers
of the Senate, instead oflvo'thirda of the Senaton pre-
sent, and beoanse, fn Treaties respecting Territoral and
eartain other rights andolalma, Ihaconeamneeaf Aree-
famtha of the whole nnmber of the mem>iera of both
Honaes ia>pecti*ely, tni not mada neoeasarj-.
It is • Act, dedued 'by the Qeneral Con*antioQ, and
•niieraally nndeialood, that the Conitilntion of die
Unitad Statea waa the result of a . apirit of ami^ and
mnloal ooncaanon. And it is well Itnowit that, nndet
Ihia infinenMi. the smaller States were admittod to an
equal lepreaentatton in the Senate, with the Is/ger
Rlatei i and that Ihia branch of the Oo*omment was in-
(f other proofs than theae, and the plain letter of the
Conitilurion itself^ be necessary to aacertain the point
noder considerition, they may be fonnd in the Joamals
of the General ConTontion, which I have depoait^l in
the otBce of tbe Department of State. Id those Joui-
■Uli it wilt appear, that a proposition was made, " that
DO Treaty should be binding on the United Sutes which
*as not ratiAod Inr a law," and that the propoaition waa
Mplidtly rejeiW.
As, therefore, it ia perlectiy dear to my nnderstand-
iBg> that the aaaant of Oo Uonae of BapreaentktiTeB ia
Mt neoMary to Oa nlidiqr of a Treaty ; aa the Tr«a-
^with Qiaat Britun exhibita in itself «U the objects re-
lairing Lagialati*a proriaion, and on Ihaae ths papera
■Bad far can throw no light ; and aa it ia eaaeottal to
lb doe adminiatration of the OovammBnt, that th«
H fixed bviha
<lnt depannents should ba.preaarwed — a just tegard In
the Conatitution and ia the dti^ of my office, under all
the eircnmataBoaaof thiavsae^ fciMd a cunpliani^wilh
your requeat.
Q. WA8HINUTOH.
UmTaB SrATsa, JforwLSO, 17S6l
March 31. — Mr. Blddht mond that (he Mes-
rerred lo i
>riheUni
Mr. Qii.«s waa oroi
red to a Comoxitlee at the WhoI« simply.
Mr. Sbdowkx aaw do reaaoo for such a refer-
evce. He wiaheJ ^atleioen iroald point om th«
objeot ol the motion.
Mr. Tbatorei raw Qo eood to be obtained by
referring it. The House End reqtieated the Pri-
8IDSNT to lay certain paper* before them; tho
pRRSiBEiiT aDiwers, that he hua none Tor Ihem.
Why areferenoeJ The House ashed a question;
the PxBaiP&HT aaarrvred in the negntire — forwhat
purpose refer the answer? what would be gained
by I1 1
Mr. Blodht observed, that the PssRinrirr'a
Message Stan da Dpon theJoarDRlsoftlN House; h«
wiabed. also, that the Hodm should slate upon
their Journals the reaaons which influenced thera
to make the request. Perhaps, also, be said, a
eonnideralion of the Message might lead to aome
farther measure proper to be adopted. He wu
iodifl'drent whether it was referred to a Gommil-
tee of tbe Whole on the State of the Uaivn, or a
Cam-aiiteeofthe Whole, aimply.
Mr. NicBOi^B remarked that itwupfejudging
the qUeaiioD to aay that nothing could arise oat
of a eoQHideraiion of the Mesaago. The present
is a criais imporiaut in the aSiiirs of the oounlry,
independently of the Treaty, if the Messagewas
a proper aubject of diocnaaion, it was proper to
re^r it to a Committee of the Whole. Ha did
not think a reference to the Committee of tha
Whole on the state of the Union proper; bevL^uw
the Message points to a subject diffisriog from
that referrnj to that Gom.inittee. Theinrestiga-
tiun ai any rate could produce nothinr wrong.
Mr. Giles said, thai the member from North
Carolina [Mr. Blodnt] had explained the object
he had in view by a reference. He preferred a
reference to a Committee of the Whole independ-
ently ; because the Message itself would furnish
matiei enough for consideration by iMlf. Ha
should object to its being referred lo the Commit-
tee of the Whole, who are to take into cousidenh-
lioa the British Treat* ; because he never would
consent 10 act upon that subject till the papera
deemed noaterial to the investigation were laid
upon the table. He hoped the reference to *
Committee of the Whole, oeneraliy, would b«
agreed to. It certainly would be proper for iha
House to atate their teasons for the call. Tnia
call had given rise to a great Constitutional qnes-
lioD ; the PRBaiDEMT had stated tbe reasons of
his opinion; if the House were not convinced by
ibem (and he owned that, for one. he waa not)
then ii would be proper that they should present
public their reaaoQB for differi ' ''
Thatcbm argued, (bat the r
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763
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
I-opR.]
Trtaty viiih Great Britain.
House were cootuned in ihe speeches of raeta.-
bera in favor of the motioii ; ihe papers had been
filled with (bem, and a pamphleL wss going to be
published contamins them all. If this was not
sufficient, the gentfemeD had better direct the
pamphlet to be copied on the Journals.
Mr. WiLLiAUB considered 'ibis a new question,
and wished for lime to coDsider. The Phgsi-
deht's Mes&e^ is only an anawer to a request of
the House. It does DOt call for Bnythins to be
dooe, then why a reference 1 Such a releretice
would be unprecedented. Entering the reasons
of the House on the Journals Could produce no
good. The Houie could not call for the papers
more than they bad done. He reminded (he
House that three weeks had already been vpeat
in agreeing to the call ; if they agreed to the-pre-
senl motion, they would spend as much more in
Sreeing to the leasoiks. The Phebidvnt, in his
etsage, luul mentioned the proceedings of the
grand Coavention ; tl^is was a new topic to him
not started in debate; when the Treaty is before
the Hook, perhaps ihey might wish to hare the
Hesnge before them on that xround. He should
vote for the reference if geollemBn could assign
(what they had not yet done) a proper motive
Mr. Sbdowick urged that Ih^ reasons of the
majority would make a large book. Were the
Commitlae of the Whole to mm authors and
write a dissertation on part of the Constitution 1
The people did not send their Representatives
here for any such purpose, and he hoped it would
not be persisted in. If the reasons of the House
were to be drafted, he reotured to predict, that
they would reach the end of their political career
before the discussion that must necessarily arise
upon them, would be brought to a close. Such a
measure would be unprecedented, and. lead to a
great waste of time, and continually defeat the
real objects of their mission. The session had
been long enough already, and it must be length-
ened to accomplish the necessary business of it.
If the gentlemen would write books, he was con-
fident every body would buy them ; but he could
not see the propriety of the present motion.
Mr. Blouht observed, that the Prescoent re-
fers, in his Message, to the debate io the House,
and insinuates that the House contend for a right
not given them by the Coiistitntioii. This was
the first instance of any importance of a difTcrence
between the House of Representatives and the
Executive respectingagreat Constitutional point;
it was then proper tu make such a disposal of the
Message as to enable the House to state their rea-
sons iu support of their opinion, that the people
may be rigatly informed, that they may see the
House is attempting no eucroachmenl.
Mr. Heath hoped ihe ^lessage would not be
passed over in silence. The Prebident surely is
not infallible. A very important Oonslitulional
question is involved ; he hoped the reference
woulil be agreed to.
Mr. ScTQREAVEa was against the motion. The
House have made a demand on the President;
the President refused it ; ihis.musi natnraltv put
an end to the correspondence on (his subject.
The difference of sentiment between the two
branches is not sufficient reason for converting
the Journals of the House into a volume of de-
bates. If the majority are to place their reason?.
the minority cannot be denied the same indul-
geacejthen for a rejoinder, rebutterSj surrebut-
ters, without end. From the practice of the"
House, in a case analogous, a rule of conduct Icr
(he present case may be drawn. When a bill is
sent to the Phebident, if be dislikes it, he nega-
tives and sends it to the House with his reasons.
Tboiie reasons are put on the Journals, as directed
by the Constitution ; but it contains nolhior to
direct or authorize the majority to roister their
reasons, and thus to enter into a controverav.
The returned bill is put to vote, and if two-thirdi
of each House agree to it,. it passes ; if not, tt falb
to the ground, but no reasons are entered on the
part of the House.
Mr. Gallatin wA he did not expect the mo-
tion for a reference would have met with any
apposition. Some tn embers are of opinion, that
the Message should be passed over in silence ;
others had resolved to ground some act upon it.
There exists a difference, then, on this first point
The natural course is, then, a reference to a Com-
mittee of the Whole. lo determine whether the
House would act furtoer on ihe business.
In Committee of the Whole a discussion could
be had concerning the propriety of acting further
on the Message. When the House made the
call for papers, they did not give their reasons in
the resolution ; it was but a bare request. The
pBEaiDENT decided he could not comply with iu
If he bad stopped here, perhaps there might be
S rounds for ending the correspondence here ; but
e was not satisfied with this, but has entered into
his motives for refusing, indeed, he had gone
further; he had adverted to the debater had in
the House. He mav be mistaken as to the mo-
tives he ascribes to tne House, in this delicate
situation it is certainly right to notice the Mes-
sage, and to explain the real motives of the House,
in .'Uppori of the motion. If it is a novelty to reply
to an Answer of the Presidekt's, it was equally
a novelty, also, in making an Answer lo notice a
debate in support of a resolution. It is necessary
to refer the Message to a Commillee of the
Whole, to determine how to act. He declared
bis mind was not made up upon this point, mid
therefore he wished it referred to a Committee of
the Whole. Not, however, to the Committee on
the slate of the Union, because there exists no
connexion with the subject referred to that Com-
mittee. Referring to a Commillee of ibe Whole
is deciding nolhiug, but only deieritinmg lo ex-
amine ; it could not decide on the propriety ot
Mr. Cooper said, that the further the gentle-
men traveled a wrong road, the further ihi'V
would get out of the true course, and tjtc more
dilBcuU it would be to return.
Mr. Harper observed, that this was not the
first attempt to get the House to do something, to
' ' them to do something further. A motion
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
HiBL-8, 1796.]
Tnaty with Great Briiain.
[H.0
'R.
is DOW made lo refer the Message to a. Coronul-
lee of liie Whole, and the House are told, thai if
(he mouoQ be carried, it is noihtng, it is aecidiag
nothing, but will only- 1^ to aa ipguirv whether
ihe House ought to act. He insisted that such a
lefereace would in fact he deCerauniug that (bey
would act, aud then, in Committee, thejr would
deiermiae how, and in that Committee, he said
thev would be asked, why did the House resolve
itself into a Committee of the Whole if not to
act 1 So, when the lodian Treaty was ratified, a
motion was made to request the Fhesidsnt to
lay it before the House. When it was laid before
them, it was then contended that the House had
aright to interfere in the Treaty, or why a<k for
it? tt could not be supposed, that gentlemen of
any understandLng could be imposed upon by
such a flimsy sophistry. It was now the proper
time, and the House the proper place, -he can-
teuded, lo settle Ihe prineipl? whether the House
would sanetion any further proceedings on the
Message. What reason could be adduced for aei-
iael It is said that the PaaauiGiiT has not only
rernsed the papers, but girea his reasons for the
refusal, and that his reference to the debate, and
the statement be made about the motives of the
House, might be found incorrect ; that the PiEai-
DENT may have attributed to the majority mo-
tives ihey were not willing to arow. The mo-
tives had been avowed by the gentleman who led
the business from Pennsylvania.
Mi. Harper was called to order. He con-
cluded by declaring that he would vote against
the reference.
of Ihe Oovernmeiit differed, and they had joined
issue. Thp PitEaioENT hail given the reasons of
s right, also, that the people
eose of the House. ShalLthe
House lake no further measures on. the subject,
and receive the Answer of the President as obli-
gaiory with regard to the question? He believed
every member of the House has, as well as the
President, the rigjit to avoW his principles, and
to judge of the import of the different parts of the
Coa^Ululion. The House he conceived underan
obligation to consider the question : if they found
upon consideration reason to recede from their
opinions, he hoped they would. He wished the
subject examined with temper and candor.
,\Ir. Kii^ERA chiefly dwelt on the length of
time, which, if the motion was ai(reed to, would
be consumed in the busintss. He also touched
on the impropriety of entering into a disquisition
DQ the merits of tnis question on the Journals.
Mr. Crabb. — Mr. Speaker, 1 hope the Message
received from the President, in answer to toe
re-olution of this House, calling for certain papers
relative to the British Treaty, will be referred to
a Committee of the Whole House. My reasons
for this wish are, because the Preijident has re-
fused Ihe papers on Const iluliooal principles, and
ha-: ibouglit proper to so into a detail of the rea-
suns v/hich led to a Tarmatiou of his opinion,
therefore 1 apprehend it. proper lo make the refer-
, in order, that- if the reasons urged by the
President are such as to convince this House
ihaf be is right as to the Constitutional question,
that they may have an opportunity to acknow-
ledge it, that It may be so known and understood
abroad, inasmuch as the contrary opinion ha*
been promulgated ; and again. 1 wish the refer-
ence, that this House may.witu respect and calm
deli beratioD, consider the Prebident'b. Message,
and the reasons on whjch his refusal to send tne
papers is grounded, that if those reasons are not
such as to convince or change the opiuion of this
House, they, in that case, may have an opportu-
nity so to express themselves, and to introduce
resolutions lo that effect, that the opinion of thia
House, on this great CoDstitutioQalqueslioii, after
~The receipt and consideration of the PiiBaiDBHT'»
Message, may be fully known, clearly understood,
and stamped on your' Journals. I think thia a
necessary meotute, inasmuch as sundry Treaties
lately negotiated are now before this Houae, and
by a decuratory resolution, as before slated, this
House may save the Constitutional principle, and
feel themaelvesatparfect liberty lo pass the neees-
sary laws to oarry these Treaties mto complete
effect, without conveying the implication, that
tber think they are ^und so to do, and have not
a Constitutional right to reject and refuse, when
even they shall iud^ the general prosperity of
the Union, and the interest of their conatitQenIs,
may bepromoted by that refusal.
Mr. GiLia said, he had jiot expected the subject
would have been treated with ridicule, and that
members in reply should advise others to go and
write pamphlets. The motir^ of a branch of
Government must necessarily differ from the mo-
tives of individuals expressed in their speeches.
A majority of the House, when their seniimenli
are collected, speak the sense of the House. He
adverted to the practice of thu House ^en the
Pbebident reluros a bill, which had been men-
tioned by the opposers of the motion, and observed,
that in cases of that kind the Message of the
Phesident was acted upon. He observed, on
the importance of the subject, and insisted otk, the
propriety of the House expressing their reasons
for their vote. They owe it to themselves, to the
United Slates, to the whole world, to exhibit their
reasons for what the PHEaioEHT has declared to
be an unconsiitutional call. For this purpose,
the Message should be referred to a Committee
of the Whole, where a proper motion would be
brought forward, and could be freel/ discussed.
If itlid been proposed lo refer ihe Message to a
select committee, to place the business into a few
hands, there mignt have been an objection, but a
reference lo a Committee of the Whole be con-
sidered quite uneicepiisnable.
Mr- N. Smith said the present was a most sin-
gular motion i aad, after noiicing the several rea-
sons which bad been given ftir the measure,
thought none of them had any weight. He said
the referring of the Message could only have one
effect ; it would engage three weeks more of their
time i and yet, gentlemen who had been very
economical with respect to time, on the late great
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
pR.}
Tnatji with Great BrUam.
[Mahcb. 1798.
ComtilatioHl point, bf calling for the quntian
from day to day, now proposed lo cuosBine ii in
ibe my proptwetl. He sboold, however, 'dow
■bow that economy on account of lime, whicb
had been so much imisted upon on a former oc-
«aaioa.
Mr. Thatcbbb hoped the Committee would
eicuse hii making a few reitiarks on the subject
before them, as it teemed not to be uoderslooc).
In the fint place, he asked, what was the answer
of the fsESiDBNTf It WBsNo, and nothing more.
What, then, can be expected from leferrmg this
answet to a Committee of ibe Whole? It was not
the answer which gentlemen wished to refer;
but Ihey say, tbe Pbesident was not coateDled
with gifing bd Boawer, but had gone on w give
the reasons on which his negative was predieaied.
Might they not, say they, prove the President to
be wrong, and ought they not to give'lhetr rea-
nns why they thins him wrong? They, therefore,
determine toenterintoa forensic dispute with ibe
pKEsittBNT, in order thitt, though he had onCe uid
No, be might bereafier say Yes. Contrary to all
former expenence, he said, tbe majority, and not
the minority, wished to enter a pratest upon their
Jonrnals. In tbe Bnglisfa Parliament they fre-
quently be«rd of a minority protesting, but be
■ever aeard of a majorit]^ doing so. But this ma-
jority want to enter their protest, in the form of
• •yilogism, in Order (o convince the world that
the pBBSiPSirr had reasoned ill. But he thought
the people of the United States would believe he
TMianed lolerahly well. Nor did he believe the
gentleman from Paansylvania would overturn in
a week the reasoning of the PneaiDGNT. But it
had been said, -politeness required thai they should
■otice the Prebident'ii Mexsage. He believed he
would excuse the House on that head. He be-
lieved his mind was determined on tbe subject.
If gentlemen were dissatisfied with the reaioning
of the Prebidkn'T, let them go individually to him
and say, " you have given us a major and a minor,
but you have drawn a wrong conclusion." But
was it right that these arguments should be
brought forward on that floor 7 for, if the majo-
rily sent their reasons to the PRBsmENT, instead
of having a reply of two or'three pages, they
night have the next time ten or twelve, and the
controversy would not e :d. Mr T. was there-
fore opposed to th« motion.
Mr. CLATBoaitE thought the motion a proper
one) for, if they passed the present Message over
in aiknce, they miffht u well come to a resolu-
tion, that whatever the Prbhidbrt said should be
bw, and not to be examined.
Mr. W. Smith did not think the present mo-
tion could have any other effect than to involve
two diUerent brancnes of the Government in an
nnpteasant dispute on a Constitutional question.
If gentlemen wished to convince the Prebldeni
he was wrongj it would be better a commiltee
■bould be appointed for a conference with him on
the occasion. Oantlemen said they wi-'hed to en-
tar their reasons upon tbe Journals for calling for
paper* ; whereas, when they laid the resnlulion
I^OB the table, and were called upon for those
r«a*ons, they said they would see tbe p«|>ers first,
and then they would say what use they meant to
make of them. The PREaioENT, raid Mr. 8., had
icted in the way gentlemen said he ought to act
Jid not gentlemen say the PneatDBHT Wiiuld ex-
ercise his discretion with respect to .tending tbe
papers t and yet, now he had exercised his discre-
there seemed lo he sn inclination in gentle-
to enter on the Journals ri'asons to convince
the world he was wrong. How did Ihal Hjuse
proceed when the PBEsincxT nrgatived one of
their btllsl His reasons were entered on the
Journals, and they proceeded lo reconsider tbe
sobjecL But did they enter on the Journals their
reasons for passing the bill? No: they merely put
the question, whether the bill should still pas^
d were ruled by the event. He thought this an
alogous case to the present. He saw nothing
iproper in ih" Prebideht'h having given bis
reasons for dcijliniog to send the papers requested.
Had he not done so, but refused to have answered
the request, without having given any reasons for
it, he woold have been charged with a want of
respect to the House. He considered his compli-
anee would have been a violation of the Consti-
tution. Was that a reason why they should enter
their reasons on the Jonrnals? Surely not. In-
deed, it appeared to him, that the discussion pro>
posed would have no efleet btit to excite a mis-
undersianding between two branches of the Qo-
vernment, which might ultimately affect the peace
of the country. He wiithed genllemen to recol-
lect the calmness with which that House received
the negBlive of the Prbbiobht on a bill which
respected the great principles of rcpreseotjiion,
which had passed both Houses. No attempt was
made to go into a Committee of the Whole on
the reasons for the negative. He hoped they
should proceed with the same dignity on the pte-
Mr. FiNDLET said, it was customary in the Le-
gislature of Pennsylvania to enter reasons for
adopti g measures upon their Journals. He bad
often known the sentiments of men long dead,
brought forward there. It was not for themselvei^
bnt for posterity, that their reasons for calling for
the papers in question should be entered upoo the
Journals along with the Prebidbnt's refusal. U
had been said, that majorities never entered their
reasons on Journals, bat minorities ; bul be said
he had known both. These reasons, which would
be thus entered, will be those of the House, and
not of any individual.
The yeas and nays nrere now taken on the
question of a reference of the PaEaiBENT'a Mes-
sage to a Committee of the Whole; and the mo-
tion was agreed to — yeas 65, nays 37, as follows;
Ysii^-TheodonM Buley, Osvid Bud, Abra-
ham Baldwin, Lemuel Benton. Thomu Blount,
Nitbsn Bryan, DempMy Burges, Samuel J. Cabell,
Gabriel ChriBtie, Thomas Clsibome, John CloplMi,
Isaac Coles, Jeremiah Crabb, Henry Dearborn, SamiHl
Earte, William Titiiiej, Ja»e Franklin, Albert Oal-
ladn, William B. Oilei^ Jame* Uilleipie, Chriatophet
Greenup, Andrew Gretg- WilliaiB B. Orove, Wad-
HampUD, Q««ga HanoMk, Cartat B. Buriaon, Joba
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
April, 1796. J
l*reaiy vUK Great Britain.
[H.orlt.
HaOMra. JonatliMi N. Bamw, John Hsath, Jimr
HolUnd, Qeoige Jaduan, Auon . KiicheU, Mattttei.
Iiocke, Sunuel Msclaj, NaEhsnid Macon, J>mn Madi-
son, John MiUedge, AnJraw Moora, Freilerick A.
Mnhlenbers, Anthonj New, John NicholaB, Aleiandcr
D, Orr. John Pago, Josiah P»*er, John Pallon, Prancia
PrealoD, Robert Rulberlbrd, Israel Smith, Samuel
Smith, Thomaa Spngg-, John Snanwick, AbBalom TN'
lODi, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Vamum, and
Abnhain Vanable.
NiTi,— Benjamin Bouma, Tbeophilus Bndbury,
Dviiel Bncfc, Joahua CoU, William Cooper, George
Dent, Abiel FoaUr, Dwight Foator, Eatkial Oilbeit,
Nicbolaa Oilman, Hanry Glen, Benjamin Goodhne,
Chaunoey Goodrich, Roger OrUKOld, Robert Ooodloe
Hiuper, Tbomaa HartJe;, Jame* HillbDoie, William
HimJouin, John Wilkea Kiuera, Samuel Lyman, Prsnci*
MalboBe, William Vana Murray, John Reed, Theodore
Sedgwick, 8aQiuri8itgTeavea,JeremiabSmidi.Nathan-
ial Smith, iaaac Smith, WUliam Smith, Zephanjah
Sinft, GoOTge Tliatcher, Richard Thomaa, Mark Tbomp-
woa. Uriah Trmcj, John E. Von ADan, Peleg Wad.-
woith, and John Williama.
The business was then made the order of the day
for WedoeaJaT nexE. An earlier day waa proposad ;
bui Wednesday waa carried by the Bpeaksr'b
easting rote.
ArmiL 1. — Mr. Kitcbell said, at it appeared
from the Message of the Pbesidekt, lately cDm-
muoicateil to that Hobiac, that he bad cohceived
ibr oiajoriiy of that Hoase. vho jiaased tbereso-
luliaa to which that Messige was as answer, had
entertained opinions, which he himself, as OQe of
that majority, wished to disavow, he proposed to
•ubmii two resolutions to iheconsideralioa^r the
HjtiMe, which cuniained his sentimeutB opon the
occasjoo, and which be should wish to be referred
lo ibe Commitlee qf the Whole to whoin was re-
ferred the saiil Message. They were referred, and
are in substance, as fpllowa:
I, Am tho opinion of thia Houae, that the Oim-
laa mntod the pawn of making Traatiea ex-
duw««tj in the Prewdeal. and Senate ; aad that the
Hoaafl of Repnaentativea da net claim an agency in
■ukins or latilying them when inadB.
Raahtd, As the opinion of this Houte, that when a
Treaty is made, which requires a Ian Or lawa to be
paoBCd to cany it into eflect, that, in inch case, the
Boose of Representalives have a Constitutional right
lo deTiberate and determino the propriety or impropriet)'
of paiaing such lani, and to act thereon a* the public
good shall require.
Apitii. 6. — Mr. BoDBNE called for the order of
the da^, on the Message of (be Presicwnt, in
answer to Ihe resaluiianoftliat Houiie, calling for
certain papers relative to the Treaty lately coa-
etoffed with Great Britain ;< wheOj just a» t}ie
SpcAEEn was about to put [be question,
Mr. N. Smith rose to oppose the motion. He
said he wished the House lo ao into a Committee
of Ihe Whole on .he st te of the Union. It ap-
peared to him verv necessary to go into a Com-
mittee of Ihe Whole on thai subject, and perfectly
onnecessary to tnke up time id din:ussing the
Message of ibe pRGaioEHT. It was well known
Ihattne first of June was the time fiied for the
Britiab to gt^^ "P '''^ Western posts. It was also
well knoivn. that many KeaUemen in that House
had declared that the Trraty lately concluded
with Great Briteia was pot obligatory on the na-
tion, was not obligatory on that House until it
bad received their sanction. If this opinion waa
just, he apprehended the British ^rere not bound
to give up the posts until that House had decUi^
ibe Treaty binding. He was one of those who
believed this opiuion incorrect; he believed that
HoQse bad no participating power in making
Treaties; but there was no mai( who would say
they had not the phyaicul power to break tha
Treaty ; and, after WTiat had taken place in that
House, may it not be conceived the British will
refuse to giTe up the posts before the Treaty bad
been acted upon by them? If this waa likely to be
the case they had no time to lose. It was then
the 6th of ^prit; it would take a month to trans-
mit the ralidcaljon to the necessary' place; and
there would remain only twenty-three or twenty-
four days for the busineiis to pant through both
Houses, This, it would be allowed, was a short
period, and what, said he, may be the event of de-
laying the coDsideratiou so long, a« that the Bri-
tish will not deliver up the posts at the time ap>
pointed 1 This could not be determined ; but of
ibiaiaueh he was certais, nations were judges in
their own oauac. As long as eacli nation kept
exactly the line marked out, there could be no
excuse for tb« breach in the other party ; but, aa
soon as one or the other is guilty of a breach rf
contract, the consequences cannot be foreseen.
The two iMtions being judges in theirown cause,
it may be expected they will judge like parties. It
wasootof his power to say what might be the even^
but it might involTe the two nations in serious dif-
ficulties. He did not say the British would refuse
to gi«e up the posts ; or. if they did, that diffieut-
ttes would ensue;' but it was in their power to
prevent Ihe possibility of mischief, provided they
.went immedjalety into the business. And why
should they not do this? Of what importance was
it to go into a Cummitiee of the Whole on the
Message of the PttEsiDENT? Was there included
in it any proposition of great national advantage 1
Did they e^iect to ^t the jtapers by it? No.
They expected to enter their vea^ons on tbe Jour-
nals for calling for the papers. Let tbemdowhttt
ihoy pleased, OS material national advantage was
connecied with the question ; and if there was, it
waa not necessary logo into the coasideration now.
If they wanted to enter into a negotiatJOB with
the PaBBitiEiiTDDlhe subjecL or declare the sense
of iheCuaatitUtton, theymightdo.il the next aes-
siun as well aa this.
BatthedJacm^onoftfaeMeasageatall.heihaDgbt,
woaldbeatiendedwithserionsconsequenees. They
had been told, on a former occasion, that Ihe sen-
sibility of rlie country had been excited by the
Treaty: that sensibility, he feared, hnl in some
degree made its way into that House; and it was
thai, in his opinion, which bad caused the present
motion. - He said this, because he could not dis-'
cover any benefit to be derived from the proposed
discussion : he believed it would only serve to add
fuel to a flame which it woi^d be well to extia-
;d by Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
TVmfy with Great Britain.
[Apbiu 1796-
ynish. He thought a business in which the public
interest was concerned should first claim their
atcenlioQ ; and. as there were very strong reasoos
' for taking op tSie business relative to the state of
the Uoioo.he )ioped thevwonld negative the mo-
tion before ihera, and take up the other.
After a few observations from Mr. Giles, in
favor of going into the consideratioo of the Pre-
ainENT's Message i from Mr. Sedgwick, in oppo-
sition to it, (in which he moved for the yeas and
nays;) and a few conciliatory remarfes from Mr.
KiTcnELL— the yeas and nays were taken, and
stood — yeas 57, nays 36, as follow:
Ykis. — Theodarua Bailey, Abtaliun Baldwin, David
Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomaa Blount, Richard Brent,
Nathan Bryan, Samuel J. Caliell, GabHel ChriBtle,
John Cloplon, Isaac Qolea, Jeremiah Ciabb, Henry
DeBrbom, Samuel Earle, 'William Findlej, Jcsae Frank-
lin, Albert Gallatin, William B. Giles, Jamei Gillegpie,
Chriiicpher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, William Bany
GrovD, Wade Hampton, George Hancock, Carter B.
Harriaon, John Hathom, Jonathan N. HavcnB, John
Heath, Daniel Heiater, Jsmea Holland, Aaron Kitchelt,
Edward Livingaton, Matthew Locke, Samuel Maclay,
Nathaniel Macon, Jamea Madtsan, John Milledge, An-
drew Moors, Frederick A. Mulilenbwg, Anthony Nrtf,
John Nicbohu, Alaiander D. Orr, John Page, Jomah
Parker, John Patlon, Francis Preston, John Richarda,
Robert KntherTord, larael Smith, Samuel Smith, Thomaa
Sprigg, John Swanwick, Almlom Talon, Philip Van
Cortlandt, Joseph B. Vamum, Abraham Venable, and
Hichaid Winn.
NAta. — BemamiB Boume, Theophiliu Bradbury,
Daniel Buck, Joahna Goit, Wiiliam Cooper, Geo. Dent,
AUel Foater, Dirigbl Poster, Eiekiet Gilbert, Hemy
Glen, Benjamin Goodhue, Channoey Goodrich, Roger
Grwwtdd, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomaa Hartley,
Tiiomaa Henderson, Jamea Hillhoaae, William Bind-
uan, Samuel Lyman, Frands Malbone, WiUiam Vani
Murray, John Reed, Theodore Sedgwick, Jcdui S. Shei.
bume, Samuel Silgrearea, Jeremiali Smith,
Smith, Willi ~ •■ - ■ -----
The House accordinely resolved itself into
Committae of the Whole on said Measage.
Mr.BLouNT brought forward the following reso-
lutions :
" Retohed, ITiBt, it being declared by the aecond
section of the second article of Ae Constitution, ' that
the President shall have power, by and with the advice
of the Senate, ta make Trestle*, provided two-thirds of
the Senate present oonenr,' the Hooae of Representa.
tives do not claim any agency in making Treaties ; but,
^twboi a Ttea^ stipulates legtliatkina Ml any of the
■nhiecta submitted by the Conattetiott to the pown of
Congress, it aiut depend, fn- ita eseeuiaon, aa to ~~ ''
stiptdtftaia, ana law or lamtobepaaaedl^Conj,
Asd it ia Ibe ConstitutiniB] right and duty of the House
td Raproseutatives, in all auch cases, to deliberate on the
expediency or inexpediency of canying such Treaty
into efTact, and to determine and act tlkeieon, aa, in their
judgment, may be moat conducive to the public good.
" Rtaohed, That it la not necesaaij to the propriety
of any application from this House to the Executive,
for information desired by them, and which may relate
to any Constitutional Amotions of the House, that the
pnrpoBC for which such rnfirmation may be want^, or
to which the same may be appliei), sbonld be stated in
the application."
Harper, Mr. Daytow, and Mr. Kitchell,
oflVred a few remarks with respect to the ptopri-
ly of considering the resolutions uow moved, or
laid upon the table, by Mr. Kitcuell, a few
days ago. After which—
Mr. Madison rose, and spoke as follows : When
the Message was Grst proposed Co be committed,
the proposition had been treated by solae gentle-
men not only with levity but with ridicule. He
petsaaded himself thai tne subject would appear
ID a very difierent lizht to the Committee ; and
he hoped that it would be discussed on both aides
without either levity, intemperance, or illibe-
ralily.
If there were any question which could make a
serious appeal to the dispassionate judgraenl, it
must be one which respected the meaning of the
Constitution ; and if any Constitutional question
could make the appeal with peculiar solemnity,
it must be in a case like the present, -where two
of the constituted authorities interpreted difler-
ently the extent of their respective powers.
It was a consolation, however, ol which every
member would be sensible, to reflect on the happy
difference of our situation, on such occurrences.
from that of Governments in which the constitu-
ent members possessed independent and hereditary
Ererogatives. In such Governments, the parlies
aving a personal interest in their public stations,
and not being amenable to the national will, dis-
putes concerning the limits of ibeii respective au-
thorities might be productive of the most fatal
consequences. With ua, on the contrary, although
disputes of that kind are always to be regretted,
there were three most precious resources against
the evil tendency of them. In the first place, the
responsibility which every department fe«ts to
the public will^ under the forms of the Constita-
tion, may he expected to prevent the excesses in-
cident to conflicts between rival and irrespon-
-sible authorities. In the next place, if the differ-
ence cannot be adjusted by friendly conference
and mutual concession, the sense of the constitu-
ent body, brought into the Government through
the ordinary elective channels, may sopply a re-
medy. And if this resource should fail, there re-
mains, in the third and last place, that provident
article in the Constitution itself, by which an ave-
nue is always open to the sov^ei^iy of the peo-
ple, for explaaations or ameudmenis, as they might
be found indispensable.
If, in the present instance, it was to be particu-
larly regretted that the existing difference of opi-
nion had arisen, every motive to the regret was a
motive to calmness, to candor, and the most re-
spectful delicacy towards the other constituted
authority. On the other hand, the duty which
the House of Representatives must Teel lo them-
selves and to their constituents, required that they
should examine the subject with accuracy, as well
as with candor, and decide on it with firmness,as
well as with moderation.
In this temper, he should proceed to make some
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Aprii^ 1796.]
Tivaiif via. Qrtat Britain.
[H.C
obserratioDs on (he Message before ihe Commit^
tee, and od the reasons coatained in it
TheMeaeage related lo IwopoiDts^ First. The
application i^ide for the papers. Secondly. The
Constituiiojial rights of Congreps, and of the
House of Representatives, on the sutiject of
Treaties.
On the first point, he observed, thai the right of
the Hotise to apply for any inforniatioa they might
want, had been admitted by a Dumber ir the mi-
nority, who had opposed the exercise of the right
in this particular case. He thought it clear tnal
the House mtist have a right, in all cases, to ask for
infortnation which might assist their deliberations
on the subjects submitted to them by the Consti-
tution ; being responsible, nevertheless, for the
propriety of the measure. Hewasasready toad-
mit that the Executive had a right, under a due
responsibility, also^ to withhold information, when
of a nature taat did not permit a disclosure of it
at the time. And if the refusal of the PaEamBNT
had been founded simply ona represeniatiou, that
the state of the business within his department,
and the contents of the papers asked for, required
it, although he might have regretted the refusal,
he should have been little dLiposed to criticise it.
But the Message had contested what appeared to
him a clear and important right of the Houses
and stated reasons for refusing the papers, which,
with all the respect be could feel for the Siecu-
tive, he could not regard as satisfactory or proper.
One of the reason* was, that it dtd not occur to
the ExecQtive that the papers could i>e relative to
nay purpose under the cognizance, and in the
contemplation of the Housel The other was, that
the parpose for which (hey were wuited was not
expressed in the resolution of the House.
With respect to the first, it implied that the
Executive, was uot only to judge of the proper
object! and funetions of the Executive depart'
ment, but, also, of the objects and fnnctions oi (he
House. He was not only lo decide how far the
Executive trust wo(rid permit a disclosure of in-
formation, but how far the Legislative trusl could
derive advantage from it. It beloneed, he said, to
each departuwnt lo judge for ioelf If the Exe-
cudve eooceived (hat, in relation to bis own de-
pailment, pspera could not be safely communicat-
ed, he might, OD that ground, refuse thetn, because
be was the competent tfaoo^ a responsible judse
within hit own department. If the papers could
be ecmmonicated wilbont injury to the objects of
his depKTtmen(, he onght not to refuse them as ir-
relative to the objects of (he Houae of Represent-
atives ; becanse the House was, in such cases, the
only proper judge of its own objects.
The other reason of refuMil was, that the use
which the House meant to make - of (he papers
wag not expressed in the resolution.
As far as he could recollect, no precedent could
he found in therecordsuf the House, or elsewhere,
in which the particular object in calling for in-
forDiation was expressed in the call. It was not
<raly contrary to ri^ht to require this, but it would
often be improper in the House to express the ob-
ject la the puiicuUr cose oi an impeachment
referred to in the Message, it mi^ht be evidently
improper to state that tolie the object of infonna-
lion which might possibly lead to it. because it
would involve the preposterous idea of first deter-
mining to impeach, and ihen inquiring whether
an impeachment ought Eo take place. Even the '
Holding out an impeachmsDt as a contemplated or
contingent result of the information called for,
mightoe extremely disagreeable in practice, as it
might inflict a temporary pain on an individnal,
whom an mvestintion of iacts might prove to be
innocent and perhaps meritorious.
From thb view of (he subject he could not for-
bear wishing that, if the papers were to be refus-
ed, other reasons had been assigned far it. He
thought the resolutions ofi^ied by the gentleman
from North Carolina, one of which related to thitf
subject, ought to stand on (he Journal along with
the Message which hadljeen entered there. Both
(he resolutions were penned with moderation and
propriety. They went no farther than to assert
(he rights of the House ; they cour(ed no t^ly ;
and it ought not to be supposed they conid give
any offence.
The second object (0 which (he meAure relat-
ed, was (he Constitutional power of the House on
the subject of Treaties.
Here, again, be hoped it may be allowable to
wish that it bad not been ^eeraed necessary to
take up, in so solemn a manner, a great Constitu-
tional question, which was not contained in the
resolution presented by the House, which had
been incidental only to the discnsdon of that re-
solution, and which could 'only have been brought
into view (hrongh the unauthendc medium of (he
newspapers. This, however, would well account
for (he misconcepUon which had (aken place in
the doctrine maintained by the majority iu the
late question. It had been understood by the
Executive, that the House asserted its assent to
be necessary to the validity of Treati^. This
was not the doctrine maintained by them. It was,
he believed, fairly laid down in the resolution pro-
posed, which limited the power of the House over
Treaties, to ■cawea where Treaties embraced Le-
gislative sobjects, submitted by the Constitutitm
to the power of the Hwise.
Mr. M. did not mean to go into the generul ni»-
rits of this question, as discussed when the forater
resolution was before the Committee. The Mes-
sage did not request it, having drawn none ot its
reasoning from the text of tne Constitution. It
had merely affirmed (hat the power of making
Treatite is exclusively Tested by the Constitution
in the PxESiitCNT, by and witn the advice and
consent of the Senate. Nothiogmorewas neces-
sary on this point than to observe, that the C<H1-
stitutioo bad as expressly and exclnsively vest-
ed in Congress the power of making laws, as it
had vested in the PREainEirr and Seuate the
power of makinr Treaties.
He proceeded to review the several topics on
which the Messase relied. First. The Inteniioo
of the body which framed the Coostitnlion. Se-
condly. The opinions of the State Conveotiona
who adopted iL Thirdly. The peculiar rights
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775
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
•wR.}
Trttity vUJt €freai Britain.
[ATRI1.I79&
UofthetmallerSiuifs. Fourthly. The
masner in which the (JonKtiiution hnJ bfvn un-
deratood by iheEzecuciTeand the furcigii naiionn,
with wbicb Treatieci had been rormetl, Fil'ihlf.
The acquieKcence and acU wl Ibe Uuuse on fur-
1. WheD the memben on llic fljor, who were
members of the GcDeral Canveniioii, particularly
a member {tchu Georgia and himnell^ were cslled
on ID a fDrmet debate for the aeniie i)t' that body
00 the CoDRtiluliooal question, it was a matter of
tome surprise, which was much increased by ibe
peculiar stress laid on tbe inlormation expected.
He acknowledged hin RUrprise, nUo, at seeing the
Message of the Eiecutire anptallni; to the lanii-
proceedings in tbe General Conveniion, as a clue
to tbe Tucaoing of the Constitution.
It had been bis pnrpose, during the lale debate, to
make seme obserratiana on what had fallen from
the gentlemen from Connecticut and Maryland,
if ihetudden lerminaliou of the delate bad not
eul him off from the opportaoiiy. He should have
remiuiled them that t liswas (he ninth year since
the ConreniioQ executed their trust, and that he
had not a single note in ibis' place to assist his
memory. He nbouU have remarked, ihal neither
himself nor the other members who had belonged
to the Federal GoBTention, could be under any
particular obligation, to rise in answer lo a few
gentlemen, with inlormation, not merely of iheir
own ideas at that period, but of llie inlenlidn of
the whole body i many membprs of which, too,
had probably Dover entered into the dtscu-isions of
tje subject. He might have further remarked,
thai there would not b» much delicacy in the un-
deriaking. tR it appeared* that a ten!<e had been
Eut on the Coastiiution hj some who were mem-
er» of the Convention, different from (hat which
must have been entertained by others, who had
epuenrred in ratifying (he Treaty.
After taking notice of tbe doctrine of Judge
Wilson, who was a member of the Federal Con-
vention^ as quoted by Mr. .Qai.i.atin from ihe
Pennsylvaoiadebatesjhe proaeedcd to men lion thai
three gentlemen, who had been memb-rs of the
Convention, were partiea to the proceedings in
Charleston, Sooth Carolina, which, among other
objectioBH to tbe Treaty, represented il as riulal-
ing the Constitutioo. That the varf resneeiahle
flitiien, who presided at the meeting u Wilming-
ton, whoke resolatioDs made a similar coroplainl,
hal also been a distinguished member of the body
thai lEbnned the Constitution.
It-would have been proper for him,alM, io have
recollected what had, on a former occasiun, hap-
pened 10 himself during a dehaie in the House uf
Ha pr« sen la lives. When tbe bill fur entabliiihing
a National Bank was under consideration, be bad
opposed it, as not warranted by tbe Constiiuiion.
and incidentally renaiked, l;iai h\x iinpreH.->ioQ
might be stronger, as he remembered that, in the
Con Teat ion, a motion was made and negatived,
for giving CoagreM a power to grant charters of
iaearporaiian. This dight reference to the Con-
vention, he ttid, WksaBimadverted on by seieral,
w the couiae at the debuc, and partieufarly by a
gentleman from Mamaehnaeit^ who had himself
been a member of lb* CoDvention, apd whoee re-
marks were not unworthy the allemion of the
Committee. Here Mr. M. read a paragraph from
Mr. Gebht'b speech, from the Uazetle of the
United States, page 814, proiestinE,in strong terms,
against arguraenis drawn from that source.
Mr. M. said, he did not believe a einffle instance
could be ci'ed in which the sense of the Conven-
tion hod been required or admitted as material in
any Constitational question. In the case of tb«
Bank, )he Committee had seen how a glance at
that authority had been treated in this Honse.
When the quevtion on the snabiliiy of iha Statei
was depending in the Supreme Court, he asked,
whether il had ever been undetslood that the
members of the Bench, who had been members
of tbe Conveniion, were called on for the mean-
ing of ihe Convention o'l that very imperiani
point, allbongh no Constitutional question wonld
be presumed more susceptible of elucidation from
that source ?
He then adverted to that part of the Message
which coniained an extract from the Journal of
the Convention, showing that a proposition "thai
no Treaty should be binding on the United Siate^
which was not ratiSed by law," was explicitly re*
jected. He allowed this to be much more precise
than any evidence drawn from the debate* in the
Conventioi., or resting on the Jiiemory uf indivi>
dnaln. But, admitting the ease to be as stated, of
which he had no doubt, altbongh he had no recol-
leeiinnof it. and Bdmittins the record of ibe Coo-
venlioa lo be the oraele ttiar ought to decide the
irue meaning of tbe CoDstitution, what did this
abstract vole amount tol Did it condemn the
doctrine of tbe majority? So far from II (hat,
nn be Understood thnr doctrine, they mast have
voted as the Convention did ; for they do cot con-
lend thai no Treaty shall be operative witiiout a
law tn sanction it ; on the contrary, they admit
that some Treaties will operate without tbissao^
lioi) ; and that il is no furthA' applicable in any
case than where Legislative obTrais are embraced
by Treaties. The tet^n "niiifir" also deserved
■'•ome attention ; for, altboagb of loose aigniSca-
tion in general, it had a technical meaning differ-
eni front the agency claimed by the House on the
subircl of Treatiea.
BuL after all, whatever veneiation might tm
enteriained for tbe body of mea who formed oar
Conkliiutiun, the seai« of that body could never
bs rraarded a* the oracular guide in expoanding
(be CoBKtitnli'jn. As the- instrument came from
them it was nothing more than the draft of a plan,
nothing i'Ut a deaa leiter, until life and validity
were breathed into il by (be voice of the prople,
speaking through the several State Conventions.
Il' we nei« lo Took, therefore, -for the meaning of
the instrument beyond the face of the instrument,
we must look for it, not in the General Conven-
iion, which proposed, but in the Slate Con ven-
lions, which accepted and ratified the Coitatitii-
lioo. To then abo the Messagv had referred
and it would be proper to follow it.
2. The debate* of the Cooventioos ib thi«a
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
AntI^ 1706.]
Treats/ ^"^ Gnat Britain.
[H..
Stale* (Pennsylraoia, Virgbia, and North CHro-
lina) had bees before introduced iato the dt^cua-
tioD of this subject, uti were believed the only
fiublicatioQs of the sort which contained any
igrbts with respect to it. He would not fatigae the
Comtaittee with & repetition of tbe passages then
read to them. He would only appeal lo the Goni-
miUee to decide whether it did not appear, from
a candid and collected view of the debates in
those ConrentioDs, and particularly tn that of
Vir^iaia. that the Treaty-making power was a
limited power i aud that the powers Id out Con-
stitution, on this subject bore an analogy to the
powers OQ the same subject in the Government
of Great Britain. He wished, as little as any
roember could, to extend the analosies between
the two Governments ; but it was clear that the
coDslitueDt parts of two Governtaents might be
perfectly heterageneous| and yet the powers be
At once to illustrate his meaning, and give a
brief reply lo some areuments on the other side,
which had heretofore oeen urged with ingenuity
and learning, he would mention, as an example,
the power of pardoning offences. This power
was Tested is the pBEaiOENTj it wis a preroga-
tive aUo of the British King. And, in order to
ascertain the extent of the technical term "par-
don," in our Constitution, it would not be irregu-
lar lo search into the meaning and exercise of the
power in Great Brilaio. Yet, where is the general
■nalogy between an hereditary Sovereifn, not ac-
countable for his conduct, ^id a Magisltale like
the Prbbidbht or the United States, elected
for four years, with limited powers, and liable to
impeachment for the abuse of them 1
la referring to the debates of the State Con-
renlioiu as published, he wished not to be under-
stood MS putting entire confidence in tlie accuracy
of them. Even those of Virginia, which bad
been probably token down by the most skilful
hand, (whose merit he wished by uo moans to
disparage,) contained iaternil evidence in abun-
dance of chasms and misconceptions of what
was nid.
The amendments proposed by the several Con-
ventions were belter authoiity, and would be
founil, on a general view, to favor the sense of
the Constitution which had prevailed in tliis
House. Bui even here it would not be teasona'
hie to expect a perfect precision and system in all
their rotes and proceedings. The agitations of
ihe public mind on that occasion, with the hurry
and compromise which generally prevailed in set-
tling the amendments to be proposed, would at
once explain aud apologize for the several ippar-
«nt inconsistencies which might be discovered.
He would not undertake to say that the parti-
cular amendtneul referred to in the Message, by
which two States require that "no Commercial
Treaty should be ratified without ihe cooaenl of
iwo-tbirds of the whole number of Senators, and
Ihat DO Territorial rights, &c. should be ceded
ivitbout the cnosent of three-fourths of the mem-
bers of both Houfes," was digested with an accu-
rate attention to the whole subject. On the other
4(h Con.- 26
hand, it was no proof that those particular Con-
ventions, in annexing these guards to the Treaty
power, understood it as different from that e>-
pousea by the majority of ihe House. They
might consider Congress as having the power
contended for over Treaties stipulaung on Legis-
lative subjects, and still very copsistenlly wish
for thp amendment they proposed. They might
not consider the Territorinl rights and other ob-
jects for which they required the euncurreace of
three-fourths of the members of both Houses, as
coming within any of the enumerated powers of
Congress, and, therefore as not protected by that
control over Treaties. And although they might
be sensible that Commercial Treaties were under
that control, yet, as they would always come before
Congress with great weight after they had passed
through the regular forms and sanctions of the
Treaty departmcot, it might be deemed of real
importance that the authority should be better
guarded which was to give that weiffbt to them.
He asked, whether it might not happen, even
in the progress of a Treaty through the Treaty
department, ihat each succeeding sanction might
be given, thore on account of preceding sanctions
than of any positive apiirobalion 7 And no one
could doubt, therefore, that a Treaty which had
received all these sanctions would be controlled
with great reluctance by the Legislature, and, cou-
seiguenlly, that it might he desirable to strenglhen
the barriers against making improper Treaties,
rather than trust too much to the Legislative con-
trol over carrvinx them into effect.
But, said Mr. M., it will be proper to attend to
other amendment* proposed by the ratifying Cm-
venliona, which may throw light on their opinions
and intentions on the subject in question. He
then read from, the Declaration of Riehts pro-
posed by Virginia to be prefixed to the Constitu-
tion, the seventh article, which is as follows :
" Tbst iH powu of suip«ndiD( ktva, or the execn-
tion of laws, b; ui} Bathont;, without tbe coowat of
thi EepreMatalivai of the peofda in the Legislatnie, is
iqjuiious to their righUi and ought not to be eieroised.*
The Convention of North Carolina, as he
showed, had laid down the same principle in the
same words. And it was to be observed that, in
both Conventions, the article was under the beaid
of a Declaration of Rights, "asserting and seoar*
ing from eucroachmeni the essential and ioaliex-
aUe rights of the people," according (a-the lan->
guage of the Virginia Convention; and "asseit-
log and securing from encroachment the great
principles of civil and religious liberty, and the
inalienable rights of the people," as expressed by
the Convention of North Carolina. It must follow
that these two Conventions considered it as a fun-
damental, inviolable, and universal principle in a
free Government, that no power could supersede
a law without the consent of the Representatives
of the people in the Legislature.
Id the Maryland Convention also, it was among
the amendments proposed, though he believed not
decided on, "thai uo power of suspending laws,
or the eiecuiion of laws, unless derived from the
Legislature, ought to be exercised or allowed."
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
780
H. OP B.]
Treaty wi/& Qreal Britain.
[APBn.,1796:
The Conveniion of North Carolina had farther
ex;>laiQed themselves od (bis point, by their iwen-
ty-lhird amendment proposed to the Constitution,
in the following words: " That no Treaties which
shall be directf; opposed to the existing laws of
the United States iti Congress assembled, shall be
valid until such laws shallbe repealed or made con-
formable to such Treaty ; nor shall any Treaty
be ralid which is contradictory to the Constitu-
tion of the United Stales."
The latter part of the amendment was an evi-
dence that the amendment was intended to ascer-
tain rather than to alter the meaning of the Con-
stitution; as it could not be supposed to have been
the real intention of the Constitution that'a Trea-
ty contrary to it should be valid.
He proceeded to read the following amend-
ments accompanying the ratiGcaitoa of State
Conventions :
The New Tork Convention had proposed "that
DO standing army ot regular troops shall be raised
or kept up in time of peace without the consent
of two-thirds of the Senators and Representatives
in each House."
"That no money be borrowed on the credit of
the United States, without the a - -
thirds of the Senators and Repri
each House."
The New Hampshire Conveniion had proposed
''that no standing army shall be kept up in time
of peace, unless with the consent of three quar-
ters of the members of each branch of Congress."
In the Maryland Courention a proposition was
made in the same words.
The Vii^inia Convention had proposed "that
no navigation law, or law regulating comiherce,
■hall be passed without the consent of two-thtrds
of the members present in both Houses."
"That no standing army or regular troops sbsU
be raised ot kept up in ti toe of peace, without the
eonsent of two-thiHa of the members present in
both Houses."
/ That no sdldibr ihAlt be enlisted for any longer
tenn than four years, except in time of war, and'
then for no longer term than the continoance of
the war."
The Convention of North Carolina had pro-
posed the tame three amendments in the same
woris.
On a reriew of these proceedings, may not, said
ha, the qufeetibn be fiiirly asked, whether it ought
10 be sappoeed that the several Conventions who
showed m much jealousy with respect
■ome eases two-thirds, in others three-fourths of
both branchet of the LpgiaJature, could have un-
derstood that, by the Treaty clauses in Constitn-
tion, they hadgiren to thePBESinENTand Senate,
without any control whatever from the House of
Representatives, an absolateand unlimited power
over sU those ^reat objects ?
3. It was with great reluctance, be said, that
he thouid touch on the third topic — theatleged in-
tenii of the smaller Stales in the present ques-
tion. He was the more (towillbg (o enter into
this delicate part of the discussion, as he happen-
ed to be from a State which was in one of the ex-
tremes in point of size. He should limit himself,
therefore, to two observations. The first was, that
if the spirit of amity and mutual concession from
which the Constitution resulted waste be consult-
ed on expounding it, that construction ought lobe
favored which would preserve the mutual control
between the Senate and Houseof Representatives,
rather than that which gave powers to the Senate
not controllable by, ana paramount over those of
the House of Representatives, whilst the House
of Representatives could in no instance exercise
their powers without the participation and con-
trol of the Senate. The second observation was,
that, whatever jealousy might unhappily have
prevailed between the smaller and larsfer States,
as they had most weight in one or the other branch
of Qovernment, it was a fact, for which he ap-
pealed to the Journals of the old Congress, from
Its birth to its dissolution, and to those of the C<»|-
gress under the present Qovernment, that in no
instance would it appear, from the yeas and nay&
that a question had been decided by a division m
the votes according to the size of the States. He
considered this truth as afibrding the moat pleas-
ing and consoling TeflectiDn^ and as one that
ought to have the most conciliating and happy in-
fluence on the temper of all the Stales.
4. A fourth argument in the Message was drawn
from the manner by which the Treaty power bad
been understood by both parties in the negotia-
tions with foreign Powers. "In alt the Treaties
made, we have declared and they have believed,"
&,c. By we, he remarked, was to be understood
the Executive alone, who had made the declara-
tion, and in no respect the Honse of Representa-
tives. It was certainly to bf regretted, as had
often been expressed, that different branches of
the Qdvemmenl should disagree in the construc-
tion of their powers; but when this could not be
avoided, each branch must judge for itself; and
the judgment of the Executive could in this case
be no mote an authority overruling the iudgment
of the House than the judgment of ine House
conld be an authority overmling that of the Ex-
ecutive. It was also to be regretted that any fo-
reign nation should at any time proceed under a
misconception of the meaning of our Constitution.
But no principle was better established in the Laws
of Nenons, as well as in common reason, than
that one nation is not to be the interpreter of the
Constitution of another. Each nation must ad-
just the forms and operations of its own Govern-
ment, and all others are bound to understand them
accordingly. It had before been remarked, a&d it
would be proper to repeat it here, that of all na-
tions Oreat Britain would be the least likely to
object to this principle, because the construction
given to our Qovernment was particularly exem-
plified in her own.
5. In the fifth and last place, he had to take no-
tice of the suggestioo, that every House of Repre-
sentatives had concurred in the construe lioG of the
Treaty power, now maintained bythe Bxecutive;
from which it followed that the House could not
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
.^1796.]
7VM(y with Great Britain.
now consistently act under a different conslroc-
lion. On this point, it might be sufficient to re-
mark, that this was llie first instance in which s
foreign Treaty had been made since the establish-
mcni of the Constitation ; and that this was the
first time the Treat jr-making power had come
if '°."^''' »'"* •ccutale discussion. Precede
therefore, would readily be perceived lolosemucii
of their weight. But whether the precedents
lound in the proceedings preparatory to the Alee-
rine Treaty, or in the prociaioos relative to the
Indian Treaties, were inconsistent with the rifrht
which had been contended for in behalf of the
House, he should leave to be decided by the Com-
midee. A view of these precedents had been
pretty fully presented to them bra.genili
from New Vnrb TUr T.in>un«t-n_''i _.r.L .1
1 New York, [Mr. LiviHot
ohsenrations which the subj^eot seem'ed to requin
H,] with all the
On the whole, it appeared that the rights of the
House on the two great Constiiutiooat points had
been denied by a high authority in the Message
before the Committee. This Message was enter-
ed on the Journals of the House. If nothing was
entered m opposition thereto, it would be inferred
that the reasons in the Message had changed the
opmjon of the Hous*, and that their claims on
loose great poinu were relinquished. It wa.'* prop-
er, therefore, that the questions, brouyhl fairly be-
fore thB Committee in the propositions of the gen-
tleman [Mr. Bloiint] from North CaroUna, should
be Hammed and formally decided. If the rea-
soning of th" Message should h» deemed satisfac-
tory, It wonld bo the duty of this brauch of the
OOTernment to reject the proposirions^ and thus
leeede to the doctrines asserted by the Biecutire
If, on the other hand, this reasoning ahonld not he
satisfactory.it would be equally tlie duly of the
House, in some such firm but very decent terms,
«a are proposed, to enter their opinions on record.
la either way, the meaning of (he Constitution
wonld bo established, as fcr as depends on the vote
of the House of RepTcseniatives.
Aeaii, T.— The order ot the day being called
lot on the consideration of the Prbbidek^b Mw-
J^ge, the House resolved itself into a Committee
rfthe Whole on that subject, and the resolutions
of Mr. Bloumt having been read-
Mr. Swiw and Mr. Vf. Smitb rose together, I
Mr. Smith giving way, Mr. Swirr jHweeded
temarli, that he did not rise for the purpose of go-
ing into ibe mibiect, but to move that the ques-
tion might be then taken. The same principles
*hich were inTolTed in the present question had
tlieady ncdergone s discussion of three weeks
and no doubt could remaia on the mind of any
jrenileman in that Hon.* on the subject ; nor did
yftp think that if three weeks more were to be con-
r Slimed in the discussion, one opiniou would be
changed. Therefore, as business of the utmost
consequence called for their aiiention.as it was of
"le last importance that the Treaties lately form-
f with foreign nations should he carried into ef-
i^ei. he hoped they would enter upon the question
f the Slate of the Union. If gentlemen wished
wcarrytheTrealieii into effect, he entreated them
u«onie forward and do - " '
defeat them, he wished them at once to say so. If
they went into the present discussion at length,
'""'■'' "■""''' -"* be time sufficient to determine
to let the
nlle-
r, if ihejf meant (
e would not be time sufficient todete
upon the Treaties. He was willing lo 1
matter rest iipon tQe represenlatioo of the bee
man from Virginia. He himself had taken no.
share ir. the debate, though, if it were lo be again
gone into, he should desire to he heard as well aa
others. Rut he was fully satisfied that gentlemen
who had sjwken on a former occasion would
unite with him in wishing the qnestion to be then
The resolutions were then severally put and
carried— 51 members rising for each.
The House then took them up.
The previous question was called, viz : Shall
the question now be put? on which the yeas and
navs were taken, ana stood — yeas 54, nays 37, as
>■. — Theodorni Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Da-
vid Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Nathali
Bryan, Dnnpgey Bnrgea, Samnol J. Cabell, Gi^
briet Christie, John Clopton, Isaac Coin, Jeremiah
Crabb, Heni; Oeaitom, Bunnri Earie, William Fud-
Uy, Jeue Franklin, Albert GalUtin, Williun B. Oi)«%
Andrew Gregg, Wflham B. Grove, Wade Huaptan,
Gwirge Bancock, Cutar B. Harriaon, John Batboib
Jonathan N. Havens, John Heath, Daniel Heiator,
George Jackson, Bdward Livlngdon, Malthnw Locks,
Samuel M>el*y, Nathaniel Macon, James Madiaoa,
John Milladge, Andrew Moora, Frederick A. Muhlen-
'btag, John Nicholas, Aleisndor D. Orr, John Page,
Jdii«h Parlior, John Fatten, Fnnda Preston, Jabn
Richard^ Robert Rotherfbrd, Jno. 8. Bherbuina, lanel
Smith, Samuel Smith. Thomas ^ri(g, Jojkn Sinn-
wick, AbaaJom Tatom, niihp Van Cortland^ JeM|>h
B. Vamun, Abmfaun Venabte, and Itichaid Winn.
Nils. — Fisher Ames, Benjamin Boome, Theo-
phJhM Bradbury, DmniH Back, Joahaa C<^ WiUiam
Cooper, George Dent. Abiei Foster, Dwight FM^ir,
Bukiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gihuan, Henry Gleg, Ban-
jamin Ooodhue, Chauncey Goodrich, Bi^ (Ma-
wold, Robert Goodloe Hirper, Thomas Hartley, iW
maa Headeraon, James Hillhonm, William Bis4ip»ii,
John Wilkes Kitlera, Samuel Lyman, Prands MJ-
bone, WiUiam Vane Murray, John Reed, llieodoi*
Bedgwick, Jaremiah Smith, Nalbaniel SmUh, William
Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Rtdtard
Thomas, Mark Thompaon, Uriah Tran, John E. Van
AUfln. Pnlmr Wd/lwnvtli ^nA Tnlin TVfli:.»..
Allen, Peleg Wadsworlh, and John WJlJi.pf,
The yeas and nays were taken on the firu re«o-
lution, and atood— yeas 57, nays 36, aa foUowi:
Yaas^Tbeodwna Bailey, Atoaham BaMwin, Da.
Tid Bard, Lemnal Benton, Thoaua Bloont, Na-
than Biyan, Dempaey BnrgM, Samuel J. Oaball, O*.
bnel Chiteie, John Cloptoa, Isaac Colaa, JeramiBh
Crabb, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Samaal Eari«t
William Findley, Jaase FrankUn, AUiert GalUtin, Wil-
liam B. GUes, Nichoiai Oilman, Andrew Gregg, Wil-
liam B, Grove, Wade Hampton, George Hancock, Car-
ter B. HarrisoD, John Hal&om, Jonathan N. Havens,
John Heath, Daniel Heutar, George Jairiuon, Edward
Livlngilon, Matthsw I^ke, William Lvman. Samuel
MacUy, Nathaniel Macon, Jamea Madiwm, John Mit'
lodge, Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlenbwg, John
Nicholas, Alexander D, Orr, John Pagn, Joaiah Parker
J^m Patton, Praneia Prastoa, S<Au »Aai^ Babart
;dbyG00glC
783
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
RoF.R.]
Treaty with Algien.
[M«acB, 1796.
Bntharfard, John 8. Sbertmrne, Israel Smith, Samuel
Smidi, Thonui Spiigg, Jobn Bwuiwick, Abnlom Ti-
tou, Philip Van Cortlandt, JoHph B. Ttmuin, Abn-
taam Venablc, and Richard Winn.
NiTi. — Fiiher Amea, Benjamin Boiune, Tlieo-
Miaa Bradbury, Saoiri Bnck, JochtiB Coit, Williad
Cooper, Abiel Forier, Dnight FoMei, Eiekiel Gilbeil,
Henn Olen, Benjimin Goodhne, Channcef Good-
rich, Roger Grinroid, Robert Goodloe Harper, Tbomn
HtrtU;, Thomas Henderson, Junes HillWiie, WU-
Iban Hindman, John Wilkes Kitteia, Ssmutd Ljman,
n*oda Malbone, WiUisln Vans Marray, John Reed,
Theodore Sedgwick, Jercmiih Smith, Nathaniel Smith,
William Bmith, Zephaniah SviiSl, Geoi^e Thstefaei,
Bichard Thomaa, Mark Thompson, Uriah TracVi John
E. Van Allen, Peleg Wadnrorth, and John Williams.
The.
the y
3 ihen
taken up, and
f eas aad oays were called on the maio questions :
Messrs. Brem, Claiborne, QiUespie, Greeoup,
Holland, New, and Sitgreaves.
The foUowing members were away upon leave
Messrs. Freenian, Eitcbeil, Leon&rd and Isaac
Bmilh.
It wa« understood that the following- nmnbets
would have voted for the resoIutioDa had they
BEcaPITDLaTION.
Teas in the House - - - bl
Yeas absent - . - - 6—63
Nays in the House - - - 35
Mr. Sitgreaves absent (probaUf
■gainst the resolution) - 1 — 36
Majority for ihe resolutiotw 37
Absent on leare - • . . 4
Mr. Dnvatl, resigned - - . i
The Speaker .... ]
Whole MimbeT of memben 105
TnsBfiar, March 8.
A luotioo being made and agreed to, that the
Dufinished busioe$9 should give way to lake up a
retolntion laid on (he table sotne days ago, re-
commending that a committee be appointed lo
make inquiry whether the contract entered into
by QovemmeDt with John Cleves Symmes. in
October, 1783, for a tract of bind in the North-
western Territory, be fulfilled. or whether the na-
ture of the contract be altered by any Fobitequcnt
event and to make report thereon — the resolu-
tion was agreed to, and " '
members appointed.
whose names are ihereunlo subscribed, to the
«ame efibct with others from the Srates'of Ver-
mont, New York. Virginia, and Georgia, on ihe
mhjecl of Ihi lale Trcaly negoliated wiih Great
Briiair, and in opposition thereto, were presented
to the House and read. They were ret^rred to
the Comniittee of the Whole on the suie of the
The following Message was received from the
" THE United States:
GaUimtn of tht Savae, and
of At Heum of tl
I send herewith, fn the infonuatian of Congrees, Ae
Trea^ oonclnd«] between the United State* and ittt
Dey and Regencr of Ainers.
G. WASHINGTON.
Ubitbb Stitss, JfareA S, 1796.
TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The order of the day wan then taken up, on
the resolution calling for papers from the Pbesi-
DENT relative to thelate Treatv.
[The whole debate UDon tnia stibject, com-
mencing on the 7th of March, and continuing
from day to day, till the 7th of April, is given en-
tire io preceding pages, beginning with page 4S6,
and concluding with page 783. The debate on
carrying the Tiealy into effect will be found in
subsequent pages, among the proeeeditigs of the
day.]
WEDifSSDAT, March 9.
TREATY WITH ALGIERS.
The Treaty lately concluded between the
United States and the Dey and Regency of At-
iciers, which was yesterday commanicatea by the
PBBelOEHT, and laid upon the table, was taken up
for the purpose of committing it to the Commit-
tee of the Whole on the state of the Union,
when
Mr. Cooper observed, that if the Treaty was
referred to a Coratni'.tee of the Whole with any
other view than that of making (he necessary
appropriations for carrying it into effect, he shonld
object to it, for except the Treaty was evidently
unconstitutiDoal, it was a law of the land, and
that House had no right to dincucs its merits, and
therefore they might as well refer the Constitu-
tion to a Cornmittee of (he Whole, as such a
Treaty, whidi did not come under Legislative
control.
Mr. QiLEs said tie should vote far the Treaty
alluded to being committed to a Committee of
the Whole, not for the purpose only of providing
appropriations for carrying it into effect, but ib
order to examine whether it was a Treaty proper
to be carried into effect; if DOl, he should vote
against giving aid for the purpose. If it was
cumniitred, tlierel'i>rp, he Iriislcd it would be with
that view. It appeared lo him as if gentlemen ,
seemed to be aware of (he embarrassments which
their ergumenis threw them into. When they
went into a Committee uf the Whole, they wrn[
officially, whetljFr they sliould vote for it or not.
Gentlemen say, [jiat after the PREei[>ENT and
Senate have ratified a Treaty, nothing rcmaiDs
for (hem to do ; but they should recollect thai ■
very essential point is yet (o be attended to, vii:
.dbyGoogle
785
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
UiBCB, 1796.]
Gtailtngmg a Member.
aolhing less tbaa the granting of money to carrf
Mr. Sbdqwick said, (bat the Treaty must be
committed to a Cotnmittee of the Whole, on
vhatsoeier ground it mi^ht be taken up, Tnose
members who tfaought with him that its meiitB
were not a subject of Legislative inquiry, and
those irbo differed from ihem in aentimentj must
eqnally agree jfi the propciety of committing it,
JD order to be acted upon. He trusted the nature
of the Treaty was such ma not to admit of any
difference of opinion On (he expediency of carry-
ing it into effect.
The Treaty was then committed lo the Com-
mittee of the Whole on the sute of the Union.
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Mr. Sedowick, one of the members from the
State of Massachusetts^ presented lo the House
«ertftiu testimony in the case of the contested
election of Josefh Bbadlet Vashdm, returned
lo serTe in this House, as a member for the said'
Stale ; which was read, and ordered to be referred
to the Committee of Elections.
Mr. Venable, from the Committee of Elec-
tioDS, to whom were referred the credentials of
David Bar o, returned to serve in this House as
a member for the Stale of Peunsylranta, made a
report: which was read, and ordered to he on the
Ubie.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on the resolution calling for cer-
tain papers from the PaEaiDEHT relative to the
Treaty with Orea( Britain. [For proceedings on
^rhich, see onf c]
TavRSDAY, March 10.
This day wtu spent in discussing the resolution
calling for mpers from the Prbsidekt in relation
lo ihe hrte Treaty, for proceedings on which see
Fridat, March 11.
Hr. Jebbmiab Smith, from the committee to
whom was recommitted (he bill auiborizing a
Latin for the use of the City of Washington, in the
District of Columbia, and for other , purposes
therein mentioned, with instructions to inquire
irhether uny, and what, alterations ought to be
made in (be plans of the buildings intended for
public use at the said City ; and, also, lo inquire
into the stale of the public buildings, the ex-
Cnses already incurred in erecting, and the pro-
ble expenses of completing (he tame, made a
report ; ^rhich was read, and ordered to be com-
mjtted to a CommittEe of (he Whole House on
Monday next.
Mr. J. 8. bIho reported an amendatory bill au-
thorizing a Lioan for the use of the City of Wash-
ington, in the District of Columbia, end for other
purptMes therein mentioned ; which was received,
read twice, and committed to a Committee of tne
Whole House for Monday next.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit
lee of the Whole on the resolntion calling for
papers from the Pbe9ideht relatire to the Treaty
with Great Britain, on which it spent the re-
mainder of the day.
MoMOAT, March 14.
Mr. Tract presented a hill authorizing the
Secretarr of War to place certain persons on the
pension lisi, which was read twice, and commit-
ted to a Commiitee of the Whole (or Monday.
Mr. LiviNQSTON presented a bill for the relief
of American seamen ; which was read twice, and
cuuimlMed.
Mr. William Suitb, from the Committee of
Ways and Means, presented a bill in addition to
an act, entitled "An act making fur(her provi-
sion for (he support of Public Credit, and lor (he
redemption of the Public Debt;" which was re-
ceived, and lead (he first and second times, and
committed to a Committee of the Whole House
for Thursday next.
Mr. Pabibb said he wished to lav a resolatiiM
on the (able^ which had in view iHe relief ol «
very deserving class of citizens, he meant such
wounded soldiers in the late war as had had their
claim* barred by the statute of limitalion. The
resolution was lo the following effect:
" Rtaaletd, That a Conunittee shall be apptHnted to
inqnira if any, and if way what, ralief ong-ht to be
gtanlad to psnoni wounded in iha lata war with Oraat
Britain, whoM daima had been nipennW by the set
of limitation."
CHALLENOINO A MEMBER.
Mr. Giles thought a challenge which had been
given to the member from Georgia wss a serious
breach of the privileges of that House, and he
trusted the House would take up (he business in
a proper manner. For this purpose, he moved
that the gentleman be requested to draw up a
statement of the affair in writing and Uy it be-
fore the House.
After a number of observations from different
members upon the best method of proceeding in
the business, the consideration of the subject wai
put off till to-morrow.
Mr. Balowih, one of the members from Qeor*
gja, then presented to the House certain papers,
marked No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, relative to a correspond-
ence between James Qdnn. one of the Senators
of the United Stales from the said 8ia(e of Geor-
gia, and the said BALvwin, includiug a challenge
addressed to him by ibe said Gucin; which were
received, read, and ordered to lie on the table.
The papers which Mr. Baldwin laid on the
table were as follow:
No.1.
PaiuDBuaiA, Hareh 9, 17M.
8im : My latten appriM me cf ■ paper ^gned by a
nnmbcff of the Benktors and RapresentallvM of the
QetH^s. Anembly, which hu been torwarded to yoo,
to be puMnlsd to Consrau in eau the purehusia of
Georgia Weafiim lands shoold ofler their territoiy to
the Oovamment of the United Stslw jHravioaf la Iha
meeting of tbs LegialatnTa of that. Stale. As ■ mem-
ber of the Senate 1 have ■ light to a psnual of any
paper from the State of OeoigtB intended ttt pohlia
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787
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OF R.]
Imprenment of SeaTTien.
■.B, I7S6.
itM, tnd rit, M ui indmdual who njmy be intorested in
ila coDtenb, I demand the oiigiail paper, or > certified
eopj, with tbe nuns* of all the lignen.
I am, ur.jam obedient eerTint,
J.aUNN.
Hon. Mr. Bjidwib.
8t« ! Your oitnnrdinaij note of jeclflrda; ia juit
pDt into m; hands. You ipeak of a " paper to be pi»-
Iwnted to Congreu on a certain contingency," and of
jour right " to a perunl of any papei from the State
of Georgia intended for public uae. It is very proba-
ble 1 may, at Home tiznea, have papers &om the State of
Georgia intended for public nae, which may have been
confided to mj individnal ducretion. Such a paper ai
jaa deacribe 1 have not yotaeen. Had yoti approached
■DO in the fomu of common civility, there ii no letter in
m; poaaeeaion ao lecnl, that I ihonld not willingly
have labmitted it to youi peraial. I have none that I
diink propel to lurrendeT to your demand.
I am, m, yont obedient awvant,
ABRAHAM BALDWIN.
OcnanJ GnitK.
No. 8.
AQacH II, 1790.
8i> : I baw neeited yooi note of die 10th iiutant.
Bad you bean goramad by motivea of emnmon ei*ilitj
Of deeeney, yoa would not hate concealed from my
view a paper more than four week< in your poeieedoR,
which wa> to be uaed whenSTer an occaaion offered (o
do me an injury, I ihall not repeat my call for that
paper, but «iaw the concealer of the wt^ioa of an at-
Muain an aaaodate in the guilt I therelbre demand
iatia&etion, and ask you, nrnto hsTo the goodness to
inform my fi-iend, Oeneral Prelinghuyien, when and
where I may meet you.
I am, sir, your obedient aervaiil,
J. GUNN.
Hon. Mr. Baldwiit.
No. 4.
Pbidit, March 11, 1190.
Sib : Will yon be so obliging as to eommunicata to
Be in writbg your recollection of my oOer to submit to
C- perusal all the lettors of myself and collsague,
you expressed it to General Gunn, and his reply.
I am unwilling to give you thia trouble, bat it seems to
Ita necessary to enable mo to determine what couim 1
diall ptime on the subject of the note which you
Itanded me this momiag.
With great respect, I am, sir, yoar obedient servant,
ABRAHAM BALDWIN.
Gaoera) FmiuvoanisBii.
No. 6.
PBiuvatmA, March 13, 1790.
Am 1 I raeaiTed your not* too late last evening to
answer it We had three couTsr^^ns yesterday
the subject of the controTaniT between you and Gene
Cuno. In the first, you offiired to snbmit to my pern-
Mi all the letters of youtaelf and colleague, without any
•edition, and I so expresaed it to General Gnnn, who
aiveand astidod with the proposal. In the second, I
a«V>t«ed jo« to sjipoinl an hour for the parpose ; you
then anneied this condign, that after perusing the
lettera, I should not be at liberty to commnnicaie their
iDtenta to General Gunn, uoIch he, in my judgment,
as entltlod to the lettera upon demand.
I mentioned this to General Giuin, in your VMy
ords, and at the same tloiB told him, that I did not
wi^ to be a judge in the matter. In our third conw
sation, I iniimned you that General Gunn was ili«atii-
fied with your tost propoial ; that he conceived himsdf
justly entitled to see tlM letters, or to know tbeir oon-
tent*— and I handed you the tuiU. I do not think it
necessary to detail any other part of oi
f 01
r,*c
FREUNGHDYSEN.
Mr. A. Baldwin.
The House then leaoWed- itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole on the resolutioo relatire lo
the calliDg for certain [apers from the Pbesidbht
relative to the British Treaty, ind spent the re-
mainder of thp day thpfeir.
TuBSDAV, March 15.
The following Messag* was recei*ed from the
Prebideht or the Unitbh States:
Gentiemen of the Smait, and
of the Abuse of Repraenlaiiva .■
By the ninth section of the act, eadtled " An act t»
provide a Nayal Annament," itii enacted, "Thatiifa
peace should lake place between the United States and
the R^rODCy of Algiers, that no further procsedings be
had under this acti^'
The peace which is here contemplated having taken
place, it is bcnmbent upon the Exeentiie to aospcttd
all otdera respecting the building of the frigates, pm-
curing materials for them, or preparing materials already
lAtained ; whichmay bedonewithout intrendungupon
contracts or agreements made and entered into befiva
this event-
But, inssmudi as the loss which the puUic would
iocor might be considerable fmm dlsdpation of work-
men, &om certain works or operations being suddenly
dropped or left nnfiQished, and from the derangement
in the whole system, consequent upon an immediate
suspension of all proceedings under it, 1 have therefore
thought advisable, before taking such a step, to mbmit
the subject to the Senate and Hoose of Repreaenlatives,
that such measures may be adopted in the premises as
may beet CMnpott with the putdic interesL
O. WASHINGTON.
UxiTBD STATas, iAtr«ft le, 1796.
The said Message was read, and ordered lo be
referred to the Comniiitee of the Whole House
to whom is committed the report of the committee
appointed to inquire ioto the actual state of the
nava! equipment ordered by a former law of the
United States.
IMPRESSMENT OF SEAMEN.
Mr. B. Smith presented the protest of John
Green, captain of a brig trading from Baltimore
to the West Indies, who deposes that when he was
with his vessel at Cape Nichola Mole, he was oit
board a schooner belonging to one of the Eastern
States of America, and saw two of the crew, Da-
tive) of AcoerJca, forcibly taken and iinpreEsed
from on board the said schooner, by the officers of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
790
M*»CH. 1796.J
Breach of PrimUge — hfaval Armament.
fH.opR.
the BrLtish tnan-of-war called (he Severn, (hen
lying (here, oueurwhom was afterwards returned
on aecouDt of his inability to do duty. The cap-
tain also depows that (he commander of the said
snip of war said that he was authorized by thi
late Treaty to lake all seemen who were not pos-
aessedof proteetioaafrom the United States.
T**" ?'■'"« St) after a oamber of obserralions from
difrerent members on the propriety of referring it
to the eominittee to whom was referred the busi-
ness of American seamen, or whether it should
be immediately referred to the Secretary of State,
in order that the Pbebident might make suiiable
representalions to the British Governnient, was at
length referred to the committee above named.
The Committee of EUeclions reported a wish for
uwtrnclioDs relative to the receiving of evidence
With respect to jhe election of Mr. VABNtJM, of the
Slate of Massaehuaetts. Theyfuriher report that
tbey had examined the peiiiions against the elec-
tion of Mr, SwANKicE, for the Si«te of Pennsylva-
nia, and found that the petitioners bad entirely
faiJed in supporting their dlegations, and that
eonseqoeoily Mr. Swanwick was duly entitled to
his seaL Laid on the table.
BREACH OF PBIVILEOB.
Letters from Gen.GuNN and Oen.FttiiiLiNaBDV-
BEK, of the Senate, (o the Speaker of the House,
were read, and referred to (he Committee of Privi-
leges. They are asfoUowa:
Pbiladilphii, March IS, I79S.
Sib; Itis with real concern that I have JcaniBd that
■ correspondence between Mr. Baldwin, of Iha Hoiue
of Repretentativea, and myself, haa lieen repreeenled
MM on intended breach of the privileges of thai Hoiuc.
I ieet njaelf required, b; the reipecl I owe to Ihe
BoDM and ia jiutice to mj«elf, lo declare, without the
■lightest delay, that the eorreapoDdence alluded to orip-
naled in conadeiatiaoa strictly perwnal, and which had
BO reference lo an; ijueatjon before Congresa. I wiU
add, air, that nothing was more distant from my intea-
tiona than to have taken a atep on this occaaion which
eoaldbeconstiuedintaadisreapectaf theHoiUB — moch
ten into a bread) of anj of their privileges.
Though this correspondonce has been viewed by
me •■ incapable of affecting the privileges of tiie House
of Hepreaentativea, yet, ns doubts may be entertoinBd on
this point, I pledge mjaelf to respect, on this occaidon,
(how privil^ea in their broadaet interpretation ; and I
do osBure jon, air, that thongh the place in which Mr.
Baldwin )us thought proper to diieloie this tranaaction
is quite nneipected, it aholl be to him an inviolahle
ssDctnaiy.
With great respect, I have the honor to be, air, yonr
obedient ■ervant, J. aDNK.
Hon. JoKxTHin Daitor, Speaker to
Ihe BMteofR^retentativet.
pHiLtnsLMiii, March 16, 17H.
Bim : It has been hinted to ma that inainiistioiu aie
nisde, relative to my conduct in the unpleaaant contio-
mray brtween Gen. Ounn and Mr. Baldwin, injnnoua
to m^ dtaiader. It is said that by my fireqaeat calls
Bpon Mr. Baldwin, I pntented him frnn taking ■ psM
■B the dabates at taat Fiiday. I will stata, sir, to yon
raclB wbiA Hr. Baldwin will not deny. Wh« i fiitt
called upon him, I expreaily asked hitn whether he waa
at leisure ? He 'said he was at leisure, and very will-
ingly engaged in a convcraation of about Eve minute*;
at the cloae of which I asked him whether I should call
on him again while at the Honae, or whether he would
be engaged ! He desired me lo call on him again at
the House. At tbo close irf our second interview I
again asked him the asme qCieations, and he made the
same reply. To the best of my memory the tftree con-
versationB did not take up ten minulfcs, during whioh
time Mr.'Gites was speaking.
I will Bidd, air, that if Mr. Baldwin will have the can-
dor to relate lo the honorable House of Hepiesentativea
the whole of my conduct on this occasion, I am cooft-
dent he wiU iiiUy convince them that I had not Ibe
most dialant idea either of infiinging their privileges or
of hnrting hia feelings, but that the aniicible settlement
of the controversy waa the sole object of my wiahea.
I am, sir, with great esteem, your most obedient
servan^ FHEDEHICK FR£LIN0HUY8£N.
R^etetUativa of the L
iAr. Baldwin uid, that vhen be was called out
of the Uoose on the occasion whicli he had before
stated, his surprise to find Mr. E'jiBi.iNaHDTBEii
interested ia (he subject, induced him immediately,
on his being made acquainted with his name, t«
say. that though hia person was not known to him,
he nad long had much respect for his name; that
he begged nim to be a^ured he had as much aoo-
fideuce in bim as Mr. Gdnn could have ; that in-
asmuch as he had thought proper to interest him-
self on the occasion, he had without doubt made
himself acquainted with the subject, and must
have found some grounds lo believe tha( lie had
at(emp(ed to suppress or withhold some Senato-
rial paper. That as he could no( suffer such im-
pu(ation (o rest upon bim for a moment, he was
willing to submit to his inspection the letters and
papers of his colleague, as had been before stated,
that he might be at once satisfied. Mr. B. said
further, that he had not intended to insinuate, in
anything he had said lo the House, that Mr. Fhb-
aEN UDnecessarity constimed time on the
; that what be had said was meiely to
atement of the fact; that aa to ibe que»-
tion of Mr. Fhelinoboysen, whether it was not
in(errnp(ioD to him, and whe(her he should
on him again at the House, it is very probable
oight hare been asked and repeated, but the
iression of the importance of being immedi-
ately relieved from the imputation of being guilty
of suppressing official papers, so ahiorbedait at-
tention, that if the questions were asked, he mvst
say with truth, be did not recollect them. He
' ' leave again to assure the House that be
rei intended lo insinuate that Mr. Pbe-
UNancTnEH had been guilty of rudeness in his
anner, or unnecessarily consuming time.
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
Mr. W. Smith wished Ihe unfinished bunneia
igbi give way, 'o lake up the report of the eont-
ittee on the Naval Armament, in consequence of
the Message just received from the PsesidbNT on
that subjeel ; as it was very material that imme-
diate atleniiea should be given lo the wibjein. Be
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.OPR.J
Additional Reeemie.
[Mabch,1796.
thought some lort of com promise might be enter-
ed into, without lakia); up much lime.
Mr. Gallatin said, that as the Message was
only just received from the PREaiDENT, [hey could
not with propriety go into the business immedi'
ately. He thought with the gentleman who pto-
poaed (he measure that a compromise might be
agreed upon, and for that purpose he bad drawn
up a resolutioa. But as the subject of a compro-
mise was new, and had Dot before been meniion-
ed, he thoDgbt it best not to go into it suddeuly.
Nor did he thick it right that the question which
bad for many days engaged their attention, and
which must be arawlog towards a close, should
be postponed. Adayoriwo eonid not be of great
consequence to the pronosed busineu.
Mr. 8. Smith wished the resolution mentioned
by Mr. Gallatin might be laid on the table;
which was agreed to, and Mr. W, Bmltu withdrew
bis motion. The resolution was to the following
effect:
" JUtoittd, That the PiMidBnl be antboiiied to sdb-
pend thepraeeediDgi under the act passed Hanh S7,
17M, fbi prorlding a Naral Armament, until the
da; of , apjthiDg to the oontiarj notwithatand-
faf."
The House then went into Cooimiltee of the
Whole on the resolution calling for papers, &c.,
and spent the day therein.
Wednebday, March 16.
The order of the day on the resolutioa calling
for certain papers from the PaEeiDSNT, on the
subject of the fate Treaty with Great Britain, was
taken up in Committee of the Whole ; but no
^eation being taken, the Committee had teare to
•itagWD.
Thdbsday, March 17.
A report of the Committee of Privileges, to
whom was referred the papers laid upon the table
by Mr. Baldwin, wicb respect to a challenge he
mA received from Mr. Guhh. of (he Senate, (o-
geiher with a letter from tnat gentleman and
another from Mr. FRELiHoBUVeEN to the Sfeareh,
m exculpation of their conduct ; aod also a letter
from Mr. FBELiNoauyaEN to the committee, were
read. The report states that the privileges of the
House had been inlrioged, but give it as their
•ipiDion that the letters which had been sent to
Ike Speaecb and to the committee should be
received as sufficient apologies.
The report was ordered to lie.
ADDITIONAL REVENUE.
■ A report from the Committee of Ways and
Means, respecting the measures necessary to be
taken for raising additional revenue for pubtic.exi-
gencieSgWas twice read, ordered to be printed, and
commiiied to a Committee of th^ Whole on Mon-
day se'nnighl. The report is as follows;
Th* CommittM of Wsjs and Means, having taken
—■* ■>- -ir coDsideration the state of the recttpto and ez-
9»ofiU Uaitad SiatM, uad Jb axiitia(and
apimachtiig eiigenciei fhr which provuaon will fa*
reqniiite, make the fblloning report i
1st. That, in theii opinion, the proceads of thedntiea
on import! and tonnass and of the internal tevaniiei^
which will be received in the Trcamcy daring the year
1796, will be adequate to diacbargethe curreDt eip«idi>
lure* of the said jeai, upon tha scale of eipenae itated
in ^8 estimates tnnimitted wicfa (he report of the
Becntary of the Treasury, dated the 14th of December,
179S, including the payment of the interest on tha
Public Debt, and the rEimhuraemeal of the annuity due
on the domestic stock, beating a present interest of ail
percent. But that they will be insui!ident to repay either
the antieipationa heretofore obtaiDed on the credit of the
revenue, already accnied from importa and tonnage,
but remaining uncollected, amounting to three milliona
eight hundred thousand doUaia, or the inatalmenta i4
the Foreign Debt and Domestic Loana, which fall doa
during the present year, amounting to one miUion'two
hundred thousand doltars ; and that there ia, IberefaiB,
a sum oTGvc milliona of dollara to be provided lor, either
by oantinning the preeent anticipationa, «r by obtaining
loans upon other terms.
3d. That, in like manner, the probable receipts into
the Treasury for the yean 1797, IT98, 1790, apd IMO,
will, recpectivcly, defray the current ezpendituraa<rf'tlie
same yean, supposing the public eipensea not to be
increased; but vrill prove inauffideDt to djacharge the
instslmGnts of Foreign Debt or of Domeatic Loans
which will fall due during those yean.
3d. That, from and ailer the year 1S9I, the cunent
expenditnrewillbeincreaaedbyaaamof91il46,370 34,
which wiU be required to discharge the annuity that will
then become due and payable en the deierred stock.
4th. That, exclusive of the anticipations mentioned
in the Gnl paragnph of this report, the instalments of
the Domestic Loans, which will nil due afler the present
year, amount to $t,eOO,000 ; the whole of which wiU
fall due before and during the year IBOl.
bth. That the whole of the Foreign Debt, exclusive
of the instalment which will fall doe in the correntyear,
amounts to 911,400,000, the whole of which will &I1
due before and during the year 1809 ; and that there is
but hitle eipectation that the holders of aaid debt will
convert the aame into Domestic Debt upon any reason-
able terms, or that, in the present drcumstancca of Eu-
rope, the instalments that will become due within a short
period can be discharged by obtaining a re-loan of the
same, upon similar terms with these on which the
original loans were obtained.
6th. That no means are provided on the present scale
of revenue and expenditure, either to discharge the
Domestic Loans and instalments of the Foi«iga Debt,
above mentioned, or to pay the additional eipendilure of
91,146,370 84, arising from and after the year 1800.
7th. That, in order to discharge the antidutions.
Domestic Loans, and Instalments of Foreign Debt, it
will be necessary, either to provide further tevenuea, or
to adopt such measures as will vest in the proper offi-
cen an efficient power to obtain loans, on sudl terms
as they can now be obtained ; bal that, so ^ ss relates
to the additional expenditure of 91,146.370 34, accru-
ing after the year IBOO, as adequata addttkmal revenns
moat hepravided after that year.
8lh. That if an additional revenue of 91,300,000 be
laiaed, from and after tha present year, it will not only
beanffideuttodischarge the annuity which will becnna
due and payable after the year ISOO. but will alao reiss-
bnlae 94^00,000, in part, of the ai ' ~
.dbyGOOgle
fflSTOHT OP CONGRESS.
AdditwaiU Revenue — Navai Armament,
[H.orR.
lis Lmiu, and Forogn Debt, batbrs mantioQed, uitaoa-
d«Dt lothe yaar IBOl.uid th« obolc unaant of the nid
loaitB and antidpatioiii before Ibe jcv 180T ; leanng
then a MdMoed uinni^, wliich ii calculated at 93SS,-
000, to be Implied la the teuabanrmonl of the Foreign
Debt.
9th. Thai if an additional raTenue of $3,000,000, in-
■lead of ¥1^0,000, be ntwd, for a tena of twelve
j«ara. it will, within that period, dueharge, beaidei
the accnung annuiW uiiing liom the De&irfd Debt
■ and the Domestic Loans and actJcipBliotii afbremid,
Ibe whole of the Foreign Debt, and the new Dameetic
^Slock, bearing an intereet of Aj and 4^ per centum ;
Md that, at the end of the raid period of twelve jeara,
(.-. annititj will be redeemed, which ia calculated at
9I,I13,930i which,with thereTenaea noweatabliahed,
will be anffident to meet all demands against the Go-
*emment, npoD the piinciplea before aiaamed.
The oooiDiittee having ccmtemplated the variona re-
" "■ ■ —>-'-'- -n,^ be raMrtad to
s of the United 8lia«a, which n
antjon to the anbject of indued
U> agrae apon olgecta editable for
ftmu which an adequate ivvenue
eonld be obtained, without great inemvenience and sm-
banaaament. On recuniDgtootyectsof directtaiation,
th^ are of opinion that those are alone competent to
jWA (och a reTrnue as appeara necessary ; the subject
being, howevor, of a new impmsion, and presenting
variona difficnlttea, which, althongh of a nature to be
overcome, jet are such aa prevent the completion of a
proper lyilpm daring the present sessian, the committee
have concluded to go no further, at this time, than to
report a resolution preparatory to that object.
The commillee are, moreover, of opinion, that some
fnrlhei reimnes, in addition to the impiwemenlB of
tbe present internal revenuea already and hsreinafleT
proposed, may dnring this seadon be obtained, from an
ailensioii of die system of indirect taxation ; and, there-
fore, submiL certain reaolntians to that eSecL
Bat, inaamoch as the actual receipta into the Trea-
m»Tj will be inadequate to discharge the cnnept expen-
aea of the Gorrernment, and (he loans had of the Bank
of Ibe United States, which iall due in the course of
the pieaent year, and aa future loans and anticipsUona
may become necessary, the committee are of opinion
that a Loan, to the amount of five millions of dollars,
ought to be opened, for the purpose of discbarging the
mid debt due to the Bank of the United Statea.
As the result of their deliberations on the important
■ubjects referred to their consideration, ^a committee,
therefore, recommend the following reaolulions ;
1st. Retnbitd. That the Secretsirorths Treasury be
directed to prepare and report to uie House of Bepre.
•entativea, at the next session, a plan for raising tbe
■nin of $3,000,000, by apportionment among the several
States, agreeably to the rule prescribed by the Consti-
tution ; adapting the rame to such ol^eets of direct tax-
ation and such modes of collection as may appear, t^
tbe Isvra and practice of the States respectivdy, to 1^
moat eligible in eaoh.
3d. Setohtd, That a doty of two per centum ad
talonm onght to be imposed on liX tssUmentary dispo-
■itioiu, deaoenls, and snccesdons to the estates of m-
Bicepting thoae to parents, hnsbands, wives.
3d. B^oived, That the following dutiea onght :
inpoeedi^ mMna of stamps, vb:
On iMtns pBtaait - tS 00
Exemplification thereof
Awards
Certifieatee of debentnres for drawbacka • 10
Bills of lading coastwise, except those from MM
district to another, within the same Stale • 10
Ditto for iHlIa of lading - - - 4C
Bonds, bills, or notes, for the security of uooej,
according to the following scale ;
Above fifty, and not exceeding one hundred
doUals ..... 10
Above one hnndred, and not exceeding five
hundred dollars , - - - - SO
Above five hundred, and not exceeding one
thousand dollan - • ■ - 30
Above one thousand dollars - - - SO
Provided, Thstifanj bonds or notes shall be
payable at or within sixty daya, such bonds or
notes shall be subject to only one-fourth part of
the duty aforesaid.
Notarial acta - ■ - tS
Letters of rttomey (except fbr invalid penatoiu) IS
On policies of insurance, viz :
From one district lo another in the United States 10
To and ftom the United States to any foreign
couAtiy, for any som more than five hundred
doHan, and leas than one thousand dollars - SB
For one thonaand, and leas than two thousand
doUais . . - - - 30
For every sum of two thousand dollara, and
above .... - SO
For all deeds for the conveyance of honaas or
lands - . . . . »6
For every other deed and spedalt; not enume-
rated 10
4tb. Xetohtd, That there ou^t to be an addition of
fifty per cenL to the duties now payable by law on
carriages for tbe conveyance of persons.
Stb. Raalced, That the sum of five millions of d^
lars ought to be obtained, to discharge the debt due to
Bank of the United Slates, by creating a stock beiilng
an interest of six per cent., and irredeemable for
yean; the redemption thereofto on
and to be payable in JMrly i"-
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
Mr. Williams said, he found the report of the
Secretary of War, on the subject of the frigates,
was not so satisfactory in some particulars as be
wished i and therefore, in order lo obtain more
ample informal ion, he moved that a resolution (o
the following effect might be laid on tbe table—
which was agreed to :
" Raohed, That the Seoetary of the Deportnwnl of
War be directed to lay before tiiis Home a pattienlar
Bt^ement of the sums of money expended in compen.
•ating Ihe workmen and laborers emplofed upon the
fiigates, and also onaccountof theemcjumenta tecnnd
by agent* in that empli^menu"
The House then resolved itself inio a GommiU
lee of the Whole on the reMlutioo calling for .
papers from the President, in which it spent the
remainder of the day.
FfiiDaT, March IS.
A billfrom fhe Benaiefor the relief of ceruio
clerks wbo were in the aet»ioe of QoTemment
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
Brtaeh t^ PrinUegt.
[Mahoh, 1796.
dariog the time of (he yellow Tever, and the
widows of such as died during thai calaraily, was
read a 6rsi aod second time, aad referred to the
ComniLltee of Claims.
The bill for the relief of invalid pensionem wai
read a first and second time, and ordered to ht
eDerossed for a third reading on Monday.
The report of the Committee ofElections on the
petitions against the electionii of David Bard and
Jobh SwANWicK, which were in favor of the sit-
ting members, was agreed to.
BREACH OF FHIVILEQE.
The report of the Committee of Privileges In
the case of James Gutin and F. FRELiNGHnvBEif,
was taken up. The report is as foUow£ :
The Committee of Privilegss, to whom were referred
two letten, one from Junes Gunn, m Senatoi of the
DDiled Blates for the Stale of Georgia, the other &om
Frederick Frelinghuysen, a Senator of the United Slnle*
br NewJenej — together with certain pipen [HeKoIed
to the Hoiue h; Mr. Baldwin, ■ member for the Stale
of Oeorgia — report :
That they have, iccoTding to order, taken into
nderatjon the lubject referreil to them. That, after theii
appointment, thej received a letter from Frederick Pre-
tiaghuyien, a Senator for the State of New Jene;,
which is herewith reported. That it appeara to the
committee, from a view of all the circumstancu attend-
ing tlie tranaaction referred to them, that the aame waa
• breach of the privilegna of this House, on the part ot
Jamea Gimn, a Senator &x)m the Stats of Georgia, and
Frederick Frelinghuj'sen, a Senator from the Stata of
New Jeive;. That the aeveraJ tetter* addressed to the
Honaa by ^le aaid Jamea Gnnn and the laid Frederick
FreliDghayaeii, ti^ether with that addressed bj the lat-
ter to the committee, and herewith reported, contain
apologies and acknowledgments, on the occasion, which
ought to be admitted as salls&ctor; to [he House.
And, therefore, that anj further proceedings thereon
' The report being read, (ogelher with Mr. Fbb-
LiNGHcyaEN's letters-
Mr. Baldwin said, that, es the direction' which
this subject had taken had been of his own choos-
ing, and as he did not allow himself, la the place
where he then stood, la do aoythine hastily, or, as
he trusted, through the influence of any improper
passion, bis respect for the House obliged him to
state to them the grounds of hi:i conduct. The
reasons of his adopting the course which he had
pursued, were, that he was on this occasion, as he
usually was on all occasions of his life, where hx
considered himself at all eiposcd to be misguided
by his own impreesions, guided by the advice of
those who, from their character and their rela-
tion to him, could have no inducement to mislead
him. It had been among the first taazims of hi*
life, whenever any thing occurred, which, upon
the principles of our nature might be likely to
disturb the liue and proper ejerciw of those facili-
ties which ought alwar* to guide us, or at all to
interrupt the medium tbrough which objects pre-
sented themselves to ns, ia such cases Dot to tnut
his own optics, or rely on his ovm views, but to
repose himself entirely on the Judgments of those
in whom he had full confidence, and to consider
himself merely executive, so far as he was master
of his own advice.
He also observed, that no person could have read
the letters which had been before the House, and
A Utter from Frederic Fr^inghuyaen, a Senator Ibi
(be United Sutss from the Suie of New Jersey, to the
Chairman of the Committee of Privilegaa.
PBii.ADn,rBiA, March 17, 1796.
8ib: Undentaading that the applLca^on of Mr.
Baldwin, with the pawn thereto relating, has boen
referred to the Committee of Privileges, of which you
9J9 chairmanj and being desironH that there should be
no room for doubt as to the motives of my conduct in
'ttlia transaction, I take the liberW of stating that the
Letten No. 1 and 3 had passed between Gen. Gunn
and Mr. BaUwin without my pnvi^, and previons to
mykuMrladge of any eontrovei^ between them ; that
1 hav* no blarest of any kiad in this "
Milbe morning of Friday bat, I first
mtplaaaant baainsss, from a pore desire to eSect a
kaoenciliatton between the parUea.
I further declare, sir, that I do highly reelect the
nnvilegos of the House of Beprenntatives ; that I am
ineapablo of intentionaUy violating them in the slnallest
d^na; and that I do most sincerely regiet that any
part of my conduct may, in this respect, admit o( an
aafrvotatde constmetion. I am air, yoar most obedient
■arvant, FRED. FSELINGHYSEN.
To the Hon. Mr. MIdisoh,
to/ Iht Cammmet of PrhUega
«fiht Hmut i:f Sepmattatiim.
leculiar and distinguishing in the present case.
^oes it not appear that tlie challenge from Mr.
jDNH was to enforce a demand of private letten
and papers; and that, after it had been so liber-
ally proposed to submit them to the inspection of
his friend, to take such as he thought he bad a
right tol In these chivalry cases, he said, there
is almost always complaint of some personal inde-
corum or disrespect, in such a case, a person ii
□nwilling to retire from the accusation, and take
Eublic measures on the occasion, as it would leave
is own conduct undefended, and there might rest
some imputation on his honor, or his veracity, or
his good manners, or whatever was called in qnes-
tion. In the present case, there had not been even
any complaint of this kind that ever came to his
knowledge. It seemed to he as free from these
objeciioDs as could well be conceived, and seemed
to be pointed out by the occasion as peculjarly
er to be made a public use of.
be only point in this case was, whether it is
advisable that a public useof any kind should
be made of such transactions, or wheiher such
things should be suffered to take entirely their own
course in this country, and the provisions of our
Qovernment and the regulations of our societies
-io strongly enforced and repeated by all who
Snrd the order and happiness of the country, and
iich have been attended with such surprLsingsuo-
issin many parts of the country as to have almost
implete eflect; for where our society i^ mostly
merican, this practice has long since ceased
exist ai all. Whether these regulations should
all be regarded as mere forms, nerer to be applied
* whether an inatanoe ever can praseni
.dbyGoogle
797
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Harcr, 1796.]
Son of LqfayeUe.
[H.orR-
itself, in which it would be proper to apply ihera
to ihe nses for which they were ictendeJ. If it
were allowed that there ever miEhl be a possible
case, he believed it would not be doubled t^at this
■was one — it is of so new and strange an extent
in*Tely to enforce the demand of confidential
letters.
As 10 the Stale from which he came, he must
at any rale declare, that be did not think the prac-
ttce required any new extent, or to be reinforced
by any aid to be derived from the little influence
which mieht be supposed to attend his example.
He said, it is also peculiarly timed. It happens
at a lime when much has been said on the subject
of disorganization, and the apprehensions of the
coantryhaTe been ■strongly addressed on that sub-
ject ; that there is great danger of our Govern-
meot't being too shacWing ; that it is the extreme
from which we are to expect all our wo ; that our
GoTernment Vi]l not be sufficient to give effect
to the great principle-s of social order.
It is an instance also which occurs among pub-
lic men, and among those from whom these things
have been so often feared, and therefore will be
more likely to he operative in its effects. They,
from the eminence of their aituaibn; have ^ better
chance to descry those evils at a distance which
they have been so long foreboding, and ought to
be the first to control them, particularly among
themselves. This treatment of them will proba-
blv be more regarded by others as an example.
The control, when it operates upon Senators, it i»
hoped, will be effectual upon others.
Be bad for three reasons pretty advisedly. and he
believed determinately, chosen his course to pur-
»ne on this occasion. He observed again, the case
was so distinguished he should not fo^ar to make
what he thought the best and most extensive use
of it. Thispartof it had succeeded to his utmost
wish. He thought the report of the committee was
proper, and was' glad to be mformed that it was
onaoimous: it was all that could be done or ex-
pected on the subject in this place. This House
n certainly not a place for punishment; and thou?h
the testimony of their disapprobation comes with
great weight, yet confession of error with promise
of amendment, and on some occasions a public
reprimand, makes atonement for everything. He
was sure, in this casq, the latter would be impro-
per: he certainly never desired or expected it. So
far as it concerned the relation to this Hoose, it
has done all that he could have wished: be felt
perfectly satisfied.
The other relation which it regards, (he meant
its relation to society,]! is not less important, and
■hould not less claim his attention.
It had been, he said, suggested to him, and it
B))peared probable to himself, that the personal
nsks to which he exposed himself, in the manner
in which he had chosen to treat the subject, were
greater than he could have encountered on any
alternative. He could only say. that if he knew
himself, stich considerations would always have
IS little effect upon him as upon any man. He
did not believe it was possible for an address to be
made to bis fears which shonid prevent his doing
what he thought to he his duty. Instructed and
prompted, he said, as he was at present, nothing
but tne loss of his life or the interruplion of his
natural powers, should prevent or delay him, on
this occasioD, from. giving full effect to all the
regulations on this subject which out society has
seen proper to appoint.
The report was then agreed to.
THE SON OF LAPAYBTTB.
Mr. LiviNosTON called up the resotuiion. laid
uuon the table some days ago, respecting the son
or Major General Lafayette ; which, after a few
observations, and an alteration in the form of it,
was agreed to, as follows:
" Information having been given to this Uoum that
a son of General Laikyette it now nilUn the United
Sute.—
" Raohtd, That a eonunitlm be iqipointsd to inquire
into the truth of tbs said mlbrmalion, and report there-
on ; and what meBiarea it will l>e proper to take, if the
same be true, to evince the grateful waate entertained
by this country for the service! of his &ther."
Ordered, That Mr. Livingston, Mr. Shek-
BDBNE, and Mr. Mohbav, be appointed a commit-
tee, pursuant to the said resolution.
The House then resolred itsetfinto a Committee
of the Whole, on the resolution calling for certain
papers from the PRsainBHT, which occupied it the
remainder of the day, when the House adjourned
till Monday.
MoNKAV, Match 21.
Thokab Sprioo, from Maryland, appeared, was
qualified, and took his seal.
The petition of the Inspectors of Philadelphia,
who were in the service of Government during
the yellow fever, and the widows of those who fell
sacrifices to that disease, praying for a compensa'
tion similar to that asked by the Clerks in the
public offices during that time, was read and re-
ferred to the Committee of Claims.
Mr. SwANWicK informed the House that he had
a letter in his hand which had been received from
an American sailor, named Andrew Donaldson,
by his brother William in this city, who had been
pressed on board a man of war in England, As
there was a committee appointed to adopt mea-
sures for the relief of that ill-treated class of their
fellow- citizens, he should move that that letter
should he referred to that committee, as it would
not only be an additional proof of the distresses
experienced by their seamen, but also show the
inadequacy of the Consuls at present in ihatcoun-
iry to the assistance necessary to secure their sea-
men against British cruelty. It was referred ac-
cordingly.
A bill authorizing the Secretary of War to plaoe
certain persons therein named on the pension list,
was read a third time and passed.
A bill for the relief of Henry Messoniere wa*
read a first and second time, liod ordered to be en-
grossed for a third reading to-morrow.
A bill for continuing in force an act for ascer-
taining the fees in Admiralty proceeding in the
tizcdbvGoOgle
796
HISTORY OP C0NGBES8.
soo
H.»E.]
Pay afthe Army.
tMAHCH,1796.
District Courts of cbe United Bute), ud Ibrothei
Kurposes, was read a second time, and ordered to
! eogroaaed fot a third readiDg to-morrow.
Mr. Sedgwick wisbed the uufiifisfaed busJDeu
to be put ofl) to take up the report of the Commit-
tee on Elections on the election of Mr. Varnom ;
but. OQ its beioE objected to, it was saegested that
Ui. S. would do well to inform the House of the
Bubaiance of the lesoLutioii which he intended to
brin^ forward, which be accordingly explained ;
and It was, that the report should be recommilted,
and that the committee should ascertain a proper
mode of takina; evidence in the case.
The order oT the day, on the resolution calling
for papers from the PaEHiDcnT, ms again taken
up, and, af^er making some progress, the Oom-
laittee had leaTe to sit again.
Mr. LtviNoa-roN wished the House then to enter
npoD the bill for the relief of American seamen,
as not likely to take up much time, and as calling
for immediate attention'; but the lateness of the
hour ■vna urged as an objection, and that it was
probable considerable discussion would lake place
upon different ctaoses of the bill.
Tdesdat, March 22.
The memorial of Jacob Broome, of Wilming-
ton, praying thai certain duties may be taken off
cotton manufactured in this country, and that an
additional duly may be laid on imported cotton;
and the petition of the Clerks in the Treasury
Department who were in the setTice of Govern-
ment during the yellow fever, for recompense for
their services, were severally read, and referred,
respectively to the Committee of Claims and to
the Committee on Commerce and Manufactures.
A bill for the relief of Henry Messooiere, and a
bill for continuing in force a bill for ascertaining
the fees in Admiralty processin the District Court,
and for other purposes, were read a third time and
The Committee of Revisal appointed to infjuire
into the number of Clerks employed in the differ-
/ ent public offices, reported the number employed
in each, their services, and the sums paid to each ;
and that, after due in<}uiry, they found an addi-
tional number wanted, in order to facilitate public
business.
Mr.Ncw, Chairman of the committee appointed
to prepare a bill for laying certain duties on car-
riages for conveying persons, and for repealing a
former act for that purpose, presented the bill ;
which was read twice and ordered to b? commit
ted to a Committee of the Whole on Monday
The House then took up the order of the day
(m the resolution for calling for papers from the
Prbbident relative to the British Treaty, on which
they spent the remainder of the day.
WEDnBSDAY.JiIarcb 23.
Mr. QooonuB, from the CommiElee of Com-
merce and Manufactures, presented, according to
order, a bill authorizing tne erection of a light-
bouse on Baker's Island, in the State of Massachu-
setts; which was read the first and second time,
and committed to a Committee of the Whole
House to-morrow.
Mr. Samuel Smitb, from t)ie Committee ap-
pointed, nresented, according to order, a bill de-
claring ine consent of Congress to a certain act of
the State of Maryland, and (o continue an &ct
declaring the assent of Congress to certain acts of
the States of Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode Isl-
and, and Providence Plantatii^ns, so far as the same
respects the Slates of Georgia and Rhode Island,
and Providence Plantations; which was read the
and second lime, and ordered to be engrocsed
and read the third time to-morrow.
Mr. QooonuE, from tht' Committee of Com-
erce and Manufactures, nresenled, according to
order, a bill fot the relief or George Knowel Jack-
son; which was read the first and second times,
and ordered to be engrossed, and read the third
PAY OP THE ARHT.
' Mr. Dearborn said, there was reason to believe
that the Army had not been paid according to the
act whicb had been passed that they should not
be more than two months in arrears. There was
ground to believe, he said, that they had been much
foDger in arrear ; be wished, therefore, an inquiry
might be made into the reason of the neglect, in
order to remedy the evil. He therefore submitted
a resolution to this efiect, viz :
" Raohtd, That ■ committee be appointed to inquire
whelher that p»rt of the act, entitled 'An met, in addi-
tion to an act making further ind more effectual provi-
nan for the protei:tion of tlie frontiers of the United
States,' which reqaim that the Army be pud, in futoie,
in such manner that the arresrs shall at no time exceed
two tnoQths, ho* been complied with; and, if not, &aui
what came the bilore hu aiiaen."
The resolution was agreed to, and —
Ordertd, That Mr. Dearborn, Mr. SAMUBt.
Smith, and Mr. Oilman, be appointed a commit-
tee, pursuant to the said resolution.
The House then took up the resolution calling
upon the President for papers in relation to the
late Treaty, and spent the day therein.
Thuhbdav, March 24.
The engrossed bill, declaring the consent of Con-
gress to a certain act of the State of Maryland, and
to continue an act declaring the assent of Congress
to certain acts of the Stales of Maryland, Georgia,
and Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, so
far as the same respects the Stales of Georgia aud
Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, was
read the thiro time and passed; as was also the
bill for the relief of George Knowel Jackson.
A message was received from the Senate, re-
luming the bill for nscertaioing fees in Admiralty
proeeedings,wiihamendment5, in which it desired
the concurrence of the House.
The House tbeo took up the resoluiioD calling
>0D the President for papers in relation to the
'teaty with Great Briiaio, when the question
Trei
.dbyGoogle
801
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
UiROH, 1796.]
jtmcncoK iSKim«n.
wva taken upon the reaolatian uid carried — y eaa
62, Day* 37; and a committee was accordingly
appoioted to wait tipoD the Phebident Iherewiih.
[For the entire delwte upon this subject see axle,
from pa«« 426 to page 783.]
Mr. Habpeb laid on the lablea resolution to the
following effect :
" Setohed, That pnmnan onght to be mide by
this Hoiua Sir emnjiag into eBect the Tieatie* Iktely
condaded betwMn the United BUtem and tba Indian
tribn, with the Algennra, and with Oreat Biitain."
Thubbdat, March 35.
Mr. LiTixavroN infonned the House that the
committee appointed to wait upon the PaEeiDEXT,
with the resolution passed yesterday, requesting
certain pepers relaiire to the Treaty lately con-
eluded with Qreat Britain, had, agreeably to their
a[ipoimment, wmited upon the Prbsioemt there-
with, and received for answer, " that he would
take the request of the House into coniidemtion."
A bill makinif certain provisions respecting the
Circuit Courts of the District of North Cardina,
originating in the Senate, was twice read, weni
though the Committee of the Whole, and the
Home, and wbi then read a third time.
The amendments made by the Senate to a bill
for eontinaing in force an act to ascertain the fees
in Dutriei Courts in Admiralty proceedings, were
read and agreed to.
Th« report of the committee to whom it had
been referred to inqsire iriiether any, and what, al'
terations ong^i to be made in the present Military
Establishment, was read, which recommended
that the present Military Blstablishment ought not
to ezoeed 3,000 men. The report was read a se-
eoMl time, and ordered to be committed to a Com-
mittee of the Whole on Monday.
The following Message wis received from ihe
PsaaiuirT of ths Uhiteo States :
Otnikinai of Iht Senatt, and
of the Hotue of EipreMoUatiea i
I iMid henwith, fat your in&Rmalioa, tha tnndalion
of a Letter frran the Mlnist«r Ptenipotentiaiy of tha
Fmndk BapnUic U> tbo Secratwy of Stite, annonndns
the pMoa mad* by the Bepubtic with the Kings of
Pnusa and Spun, Ihe Grand Doka of TuKsany, and
the I>andgrsT8 of Haus Ciaael ; and that the rspub-
bean CoDstitntMD, decreed by the Nstioaal Conven-
tiiHi, hul been aooapled by the people of France,
was in operation. 1 also send yon ■ copy of the
*w«r given, by m direction, to this conunnnication
ftom the French Miniiter. My sentiments, therein ei-
praeed, I am peimaded wS hMmoniie with jonra, and
with tluMO of sU m* lUlow-eitiiaiii.
O. WA^IINGTON.
CatTtv Statu, MariA S6, ITM.
The Message and Letter were read, and ordered
to lie on the table.
The Houw then went into a Comraiitee of the
Whole, on the report of the Committee of Elec-
tions on the petitions of certain ctiizeDs of the se-
cond district in the State of Masinch use tis, against
the deetion of Ur. Varhdm. After cMuiderable
debate, the CommiUee rose, and had leave to sit
Monday, March 28.
A letter to the Speaker from Mr. Gaeriel
DnvALL, one of the members for the State of
Maryland, was read, by which he resigns his seat
in the House of Representatives, in consequence
of his being appointed a Judge of the Supreme
Court of that Stale.
A bill from the Senate, entitled ^ An act supple-
mentaiy to an act to provide a Naval Armament,"
was read twice, and ordered to be committed to a
Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
Mr. W. Smith, Chairman of the Committee to
whom was referred the Land Office bill, repoiled
a new bill, which was twice read, and ordered to
be committed to a Committee of the Whole on
Wednesday.
AMEBICAN SEAMEN.
The bill for the relief and protection of Ameri-
can seamen was read a third tin)e,and the blanks
filled up; the one allowing the PBEaiDBirr to re-
ceive a certain sum annually, foi the purpose of
paying the agents, iLc., was filled up with fifteen
thousand dollars ; that for the price which sailor*
are to pay for certificate* with twenty-five cents;
that for a penally on aailon buying or selling cer-
tificates with fifty dollar» ; and that for a security
to be given by masters of vessels with four hun-
dred dollars.
When the motion was about to be put on the
passiiw of the bill. Mr. Livinqbtok said be hoped
the bin would pass unanimously; if not,heshoald
wish to have the yeas and nays taken npon it.
But the Spbaker informed Mr. LiviHasroNthat
no condition could be made on (he subject ; he
made the motion which was carried.
Mr. CoiT rose and said he was against the pass-
ing of the bilL The bill, he observed, had been
introduced and carried thus far with such a flame
of pa.triotism, that he felt some reluctance at ex-
pressing an opinion against it; but being per-
suaded of its im propriety, he would not give a si-
lent vote upon it, even tnough he should be alone
in bis opposition. There could be no doubt that
American seamen had been impressed and very
grossly abased. Every member in that House, he
doubted not, was disposed to adopt measures for
their relief; they differed only as to the means of
accomplishing the object. It ameared to bim
that the first part of tlie bill which directed thai
certain agents should be appointed was extremely
improper. The PaBBiDBHT was better capable oif
jadging thin the House could be of the propriety
of sending agents, and he had ample powers for
the purpose without any Legislative interference,
unless as to the expense. If the PBEBinBHT, in-
deed, was inattentive to his duty, there might
Eossibly be a prnpriety in stimulating him to it,
ui no gentleman accused him. Conceiving, there-
fore, that it was an improper interference in that
House to direct the PBBeinEHT what he chonld
do in that respect, he should oppose the measure ;
.dbyGtx:tgle
803
HISTOHT OP CONGRESS.
American Seamen.
[Mab
1,1796.
he tbooglit itoching' fanber was necessary to be
^Tt of tbe bill ; on the lailer, be objected 1o the
maaoer of obtaining evidence of who were Ame-
rican ciiiKeas. He ihougbt the proposed plan loo
loose. Difficulties bad presented in contemplating
th« Evbject in the Legislature before, but on the
one hand the proof of eilizensbip should be ren-
dered so strict as to make it hard to obtain, and
on the other so loose that it would nol be expected
thai it would be regarded ; he did not know that
the difficulty could be removed without a GoO'
veniion between the two nations for tbe purpose.
The evidence required by the present biU was of
seTeral kinds ; it might be reduced to one. A
MilSr most so with one credible witness before
any Justice oT Peace on tbe Continent^ and sweat
that he is a citizen ; that he was born m America,
or that he resided there in the year 1783, and the
evidence is complete. This be thought too broad
a mode, and liable to abuse; foreigners coming
but yetrtetdayinto the country might take advan-
tage of it What is to be the effect of theoe cer-
tificatesl The naval officer is to enter the persons
who receive them in a book as citizens of the
United States, of which their certificates are to
be Aill proof. He believed these certificates would
have little effect to seebre against foreig;n im-
piMsment; yet, apprehending they would have
as much respect paid to them there as at home,
he thought we eonid have little cause to complain
about it, anil who would say that these certificates
would be deemed complete evidence of citizenship
herel if there were such evidence this bill would
supersede aU other regulations with respect to
DBturalizaitioD.
Mr. LiviNQSTOK said the objections which were
now urged had been made in a Committee of the
Whole on (hit subject. They were not then
thought to hare soffieient weight; nor did he
think they would have greater effect now than
they had then. With respect to the first objec-
tion, that the business of creating offices lobe Glled
by the PREaincHT for carrying into effect this bit),
was an encroacbmeni upon the Biecntive depart-
ment, as aB relations with foreign States must be
managed by the PREeioBitT; and that, therefore,
the preaent bill woald be a kind of reproach upon
the PRMicaHT. A slight recurrence to the Con-
RtitDtion would convince gentlemen that the Pre-
eiDBNT had no snch power. He read ibe clause
in the Constitution, wherein it is stated that the
PRESiftBNT shall appoint Ambassadors, other pub-
lic Ministers, and Consuls, &c., and insisted that
the stents proposed to be employed under this
act did not come within the description of officers
above enumerated ; and, if not, tbe pREeiBEUT
had no right to appoint such until authorized by
law to do to. As to the proceeding being a re-
proach of the Executive, he did not think it ne-
cessary to go into that inquiry, it would have no
tendency to harmonize the different branches of
Oovernment; but this he knew, that the most
violent and oppressive abuses existed. If an in-
vestigation might raise animosities, let ibem HVoid
it. They knew it was in their power to remedj-
tke evil, and should tbey not do it, because it
might throw an oblique censore on the Pfbhi-
DBHT? Mr. L. said the fact proved that tbe Pbh-
8IDENT understood the Constitolioo as he did, for
otherwise their sailors would ere now have been
relieved ; but he waited for the instruction of that
House in the business. With respect to the ob-
jection Bfainst tbe mode of taking evidence, th«l
It is too loose, and that respect will not be paid to
it by foreign nations, and to the question cotild
they blame them if they disregarded it? He was
sorry to hear such a question put in that House.
Yes, exclaimed Mr. L., they could blame them ;
they ought to blame them, and remonstrate with
them, whenever they look their men. The
gentleman's reasoning seemed founded on a ri^t
m foreign nations to seize their men, and lo take
them on board their ships, whilst every such act
was founded on the grossest violation of the righli
of DBiions. He had, on a former occasion, shown
that everv man sailing under the Americaa fla^,
whether he was a citizen or otherwise, was enti-
tled to their protection; he still maintained the
same opinion, and could demonstrate it to the
sati^fnction of every gentleman in that House ; the
vessels of the United States, he sftid, was u mnch
the Territory of the United Slates, as the ground
of the Territory iUelf. Where, then, was the
right to jdunder their ships? The mode of taking
testimony, he thought, nad been better guarded
than they had a right to make it They were not
arguing whether the British had a right to take
their men ; but they were pointins o«U a method
of designating American seamen. (Ve are weary,
said he, of their oppressions; and when they tee
us deteimined to defend and protect our seameD,
they will beware how they offend a gieu nation;
they possessed tbe means of doing thia. He be-
lieved their enemies knew it, (fur be «ould not
call a nation who used them as a foreign Batka
had done by any milder name.) It was on this
int that he wished the bill to pass unani-
ily — to show them that the energy of Qo-
nent would be called forth to protect tbdr
injured i^bts.
Mr. MuRBAV said he shontd vote for the bill. It
had always beeh a favorite with him, and he ghve
credit to the gentleman frOm'New York for having
brought it forward. He thought the object a lauda-
ble one; not that be believed it wontd be com-
pletely attained, as the subject-matter of it relaied
to laws over which they had not complete con-
trol—the Laws of Nations. The experiment will
give Ibe result He questioned whether (hey should
be enabled lo place seamen in a situation to which
they were entitledv It could only be ituined by
perseverance in negotiation. Ooe principal mo-
tive of the bill was, that sailors might be in the
habit of obtaining evidence of their citaenHbip.
Not that he expected any thing which they could
do would force foreign nations from practices
which ihev had been so long used to. One part
of the bill he had bis objections to ; he meant the
amendment which rendered citizens of neutral
aationa aa mueh objects of protection as thea
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS,
Uabch, 1706.]
American Seamen.
[H. or R.
owa eittzeos. The ar^ments used for its iotro-
dactioD, and pursued by the gentleman from New
York, are, in the latter geutleniDn's own words,
(which he considered as somewhat too strong a
li^re) that their ships at sea were as much their
Territory as their land. He knew that such an
idea might be found in books, but it could not be
carried mto effect, ir he supposed oi;e of their
TesseU at sea ajmrl of the Territory of the United
States: one-halfof the tights at present possessed
by belligerent nations would he destroyed. The
ships of natioDs at war had s right (o search the
ships of neutral nations, to see whether Ihev had
enemies' propertyonboard, andif they founasuch
to claim it. HoweTer he might wish to see the
rights of nations established, he did not think they
could be carried to the extent proposed. If the
ameDdmeat made h^thegentleman from Virginia
passed with the bill, it would be catting the
United States out a great deal of bosinesa. He
wished to confine their protection to their own ci-
tizens at preaant, and as they grew in strength
lltey might then endeavor to protect neutrals.
This part of the bill he objected to as being brought-
forward at a time by no means faTorable tosn
endeaTor to increase their national riehts. He
did not wish at present to interfere with disputa-
Ue rirhtr. He was afraid the gentleman from
New York would find his third distinctiuo of citi'
lens (viz: those who hare come lo this country
nnee 1783) attended with immense difficulties,
as the British would not allow the claim — for ihcy
claimed such as their own subjects.
Mr. LiviNoeroN rose to jnstifj' the figure he had
made use of in calling their abips at sea aa much
their Territtffy aa iheir land. He restricted it, be
■aid, lo the takine neutral tailon from on board
their ibina, ajid this he yet maintained. It had
been saia that it was improper to extend their
protaction at preaent to the natires of other conn-
tries on board their ships. He had nerer before
beard it qneaiianed that aeatials oa board their
■Ups had not the same right to {trotection with
their own eilizeas. What right did any two bel-
ligerent Poirera poasesa over neutrals sailing in
ncntrat shipa 1 What rwht had the British to take
a Dane or a Swede from an American thipl
What natiwi erer ptetended that the^ had a right
to take foreignen out of n antral ships? And if
never pretended to, why object to that part of the
prasent bill iriiieh allows them protection? He
waa told that diffienltics would arise with tenteot
to one description of their citizens; if thef did, he
«id, the Uame would not be theirs, and it would
ba a suMect for future discnsuon. '
_ Hr. Svui'mCK wished m make a few obserra-
lions on tha bill before them. It was not expected,
he sei^ that any meaanre could be so provided for
the relMf and protwlioo of their seamen as that it
shonld Dot meet with obiecttons from some mem-
bers in that Honse ; but he could not help praising
the candor of gentlemen who, though they did not
■pproTe of the bill in all its parts, agreed to give
it their rote. He did not hiroseif think the bill
wholly perfect, bat he thought it advisable, by all
means, to pass it. He did nM expect entire relief
to be afforded to their sailors from the appoint-
ment of the agents proposed. The account which
would be in future xepi of their seamen would be
found to be of the greatest adrnnlage. It waa ne-
cesiiary that every maritime State should know
the number of thtir seamen, as upon them, in a
great measure, depended their strength ; and it
WHS impossible to ascertain this in any other way
than by the register of certificates proposed to be
kept. The certificates which wonld be issued
would be descriptive of the kind of citizenship of
its possessor, and would show which of their citi-
zens were respected and which were not. If the
British pa)[ a greater respect to natives than to
foreigners, it will be an encouragement to Ameri-
Merchants will take apprentices,
and endeavor u
ode-
pendance could be placed upon foreigners.
great deal of the eBect of this bill, hfr. 8. said,
would depend on the unanimity with which it
passed, He hoped it would be seen that when a
oil! came before that House for the protection of
their seamen that it was not carried by the voice
of a majority only but by an unanimous vute.
He did not mean to throw out any insinuations
against any branch ol the Government in this bu-
siness. He did not think that would answer any
good purpose. It was their object to inquire out
their own duty, and to do it. Their table waa
crowded with letters to prove the impressment,
and ill-treatment of their seamen. They were
called upon to afford them relief, and it would al-
ways he an honorable business ifor that Honse to
step forward to relieve the distresses of their fel-
low-citizens; they held ihe purse-strincs of the
nation, and they could not loosen them for a bet*
ter purpose than to relieve such of Iheir fellow-
citizens as essentially needed their aid. He hoped,
therefore, other gentlemen who miirbt not think
well of every part of the bill, would feel for the
objects of it, and follow the example of the gen-
tleman from Maryland in giving it their vote.
Mr. Oallatin felt, at first, a reluctance in
g'vinff his assent to the present bill, because it
id tne foundation for expense in a department
in which expense had already beentoo great, and
in the next place, because it did not put the efficient
powerinthe Executive; but, notwithstandingtheae
objections, he tboald give bis assent to the bill.
Their present situation was well nnderstood. It
was a fact well established, that officers under the
authority of Oreat Britain had impressed Ameri-
can seamen from on board their own Tessets.
This, itcould not be denied, was anolation of the
Law of Nations, and an act of hostility ; and, when
an act of hostility was committed against them,
it was their dnty, as a nation, to uke notice of it
either by war or negotiation. War was the last
and most dangerous resource, and justifiable only
when every paciSe means had been tried in vain.
Negotiation had been resorted to ; yet tber knew
that no article had been stipulated in the late
Treaty with Qreai Britain in respect to iheir sea-
men, and thejr also knew what was the objection
to the admission of such an article. That nation
aaid to tia, " your aeaman apeak the aBme language,
.dbyGoogle
HI8T0BT OF CONGRESS.
H.o>R.]
American Stamen.
[March, 1796.
therefore there is a prima facie eyideoce that
they are the same subjects- It was ibeir duty,
therefore, la set such a loark on their own ciii-
zens as to be able to make the British declare they
will or will Dot respect American cicizeDa. If
tbey do respect ihem ii will be well ; if they do it,
it will be asserliug positi7ely that ibey mean to
be hostile to ibis country. It was necessary apd
proper for them to take every measure in their
power to show to the world that they wish to be
friends to,aii<l at peace with, all nations, and by put-
ting this mark upon their scaoiea they will have
done ail in their power to distinguish them from
British subjecis.and gain them due respect. With
respect to the amendment which had been ob-
t'icted to, he thought it an improvement to the
ill, as it left the mailer to be determined by the
' Law of Nations whether such and Guch neutral
sailors were entitled to their protection, a ad showed
that they did not mean to protect any others. He
should, therefore, vote for the present bill, though
if a better mode could be pointed out of attaining
the object in view, he would vote for it.
Mr. Tr&cv said he should vote against the bill,
and he would give bis reasons for doing so. He
believed every man in that House had the maxe
wish to afibrd relief totheit seamen. He had long
conlemphled the subject. He fell disposed to get
a bill formed of this sort ; but there were several
KIs of this bill which were obj actionable. He
jai such amendmenla would have been made
in the bill as would have enabled him to vote for
iL He thought the amendment uf the Mntleman
from Virginia had improved the bill ; but he
thought the first clause very objeetioaable ; he
thought the proper way ol doing the business
wouki have been lo have granted tne Pbbsident
a sum of money in order to have afforded the ne-
ceHary relief to iheii seameo. These objections,
he knew, had been urged in the Committee of the
Whole without effect. When thev had marked
their citizens, and the British still took them, it
would be an act of hostility. But where should
they leave those periont who were not in Ameri-
'Cabeforethe year 17637 Bv exposing these men to
betakenby the British, should they not do asmuch
mischief as good by the proposed regulation?
The British never pretend to take native Ameri-
cans, but they will aoubtless continue xo take their
own subjects when they find ihem in American
ships. Our citizens, said be. have no right to go
into another nation, and eipiktriate themselvei.
Nothing was more cleai, from the nature of the
UiiDgj aad from the Law of Nations. He consid-
ered It as one of the first laws of society far ih<
natives of a country to be bound to defend it, and
that they ought not to leave itwben it needed their
assistance. This wasacrilical situation with Qreal
Britain, and it might be expected they would take
every means in their power of sUeogihening theic
bands. Thai the American sailors who had been
anjusUy impressed should be relieved be anxious-
ly wished ; but he believed tlie present bill was
calculated to do more mircbief than good, and
therefore be should oppose the pas-sing of it.
Mr. S. SiiiTBsaid the gentleman just sat down
had justly said ihat citizens were bound to give
their assistance in defendlne their country, in
itical siluations. But might not their sailors
y, with good rearoD, when ibey were called upon,
:lave you any right to expect our asaaislance,
when you have never stepped forward to protect
" V It would have been no more than candid
that gentleman and his colleague from Con-
__clicul, when the bill was in its proper sta^e.to
have endeavored to amend it. They could not
promise themselves ■ perfect bill, but thejr wished
to make it as perfect as possible. The geoUeman
hom Connecttcut had said thejre was no way of
settling the business, but by a Convention be^veen
the two naiious. A Convention had been tried,
but ihey looked in vain for an article in the Trea-
ty which had been entered into in consequence of
iL Perhaps for the want of a bill of this sort,
their negotiator could not get an article introdoc-
ed on this head- He was told that negotiations
were yet pending ; if so, this bill would probably
be the means of obtaining some stipulation in be-
half of their sailors. How were they Mtuated at
present? Merchants were at the expense of pro-
curing protections for their sailors, which were
generally respected. How much more, then, would
the certificates proposed to be granted under this
act be respected 1 These certificates were also
necessary, he said, to protect their seamen witk
respect to the Alserines; for if they looked iau
the late Treaty, they would find that their saiiors
were liable to become slaves to the Algerines if
tbey were possessed of do certificates of their
citizenship. If gentlemen had any fears, that
these passports might bring them into a disagree-
able iituaticn with respect to Great Britain, they
would see the necessity of them with respect to
the Algerines. Hedid hope the present bill woald
have passed imanwiDUslV ; ai the more tmani-
mous they were in their aetermination to protect
their seamen, the more would Bri tain respei;! them.
Mr. Maoibon wished evety put of liie present
bill to be as free from objection as possible : nor
could he discover any palpable deficiency in it. Its
provisions, be believed, tnicht be divided into
three classes, viz : lhat which directs agents ta be
appointed ; the Belt to seek redress, according to
the Law of Nations, in behalf of American citi-
zens; and also all othef persons sailing under the
AmericBJifiag,comformably to the Lawof Nations.
lfgentlemenrecollectlhallheagenlsareonlyio(aka
an account of all persona impressed, and make re-
presentations thereof from time to time to ihe Pbb~
eiDEKT, it will be seen that they have nothing to
do with expounding the Law of Nations in such
cases. The Executive will have the opportunity,
as he ought to have, of delerminine wliich are
entitled to tbeir protection and which are not en-
titled (o it. With renpect to neutral seamen, it
appeared to him consistent with Ihe Law of Na-
tions, and of great importance to the national in-
terest, lhat they should be protected equally with
their own citizens. It was before observed, that
when war takes place in Europe, that ihc svemen
of ibal couulry find their advantage in seeking
employment m American vessels i therefore, if
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP C0KGRE8S.
«to
Habch, 17W.]
Ameriam Seamen,
[H.orlt.
they meant to pDsae their owointemt, they would
afford mich men protection. And there ma no
EDond to doubt (tat it i neutral Hcamaii shoDid
impressrd from on board on American Tewel,
that an application for tedrens would be as like-
ly to meet with success', as if he had been k
tire American. In the first place, no nation co
hare the pretence of a ri([ht to seize neutral s
men more than natives; m the next place Ihey
would be easily distinfftiished from their own »ab-
JectB, when Britain was the adrerse party ; and
m the l-jst place, an injury done to them would
not only beaninjurydoneco the American nation,
but also to the nation towhich such seamen sboulii
belong. Wrth respect to native Americans,
citizens before the year 1783, therecan be no doubt
of tbeir being respected, provided they arefurnish-
ed with proper certificates. It wan true that ii
bad never beenavowed by Great Britam tbat »he
would impress American citizens from American
Tpneis. Yet it was a fact that such had been ini-
pres.Hcd, when they have been without protections,
» subjects of Great Brilain. He understood that
it had been insisted upon as anessenlial proof thai
the captain of a vessel shall make oaih to thefact,
which could notbedone in manycases. If. there-
fore,tbey couldgiveto ineirseamennay testimony
which may secure them from violence, it was in-
cumbent upon them to-do so, and this bill did no
Mr. Giles said that part of the bill which was
objected to with respect to neutral sailors was- re-
gulated by the Law of Nations, and therefore
could not be objected to. It was asked by the
genlteman fromConnecliont, if protections were
given to the diftercnl classes of citizens, what
wootif become cf those persons who had come to
thecoontryiiincethe year 17831 Whatsituation
were such persons in now ? They were now im-
preised wherever they were met with. By this
act they woald be entitled to certificates which he
shonid Kuppose the British would respect. Fur,
though they claimed such as their subject*, there
was a diffi^rence between claiminf; a rient and
exercising that rioht. He believed Great Britain
Wouldforl>ear 10 take fVom their ships such of their
CDtintryasen as had' obtained citizenship in this
conatry since the peace. The British Navigation
act enacts that if any fbrei^er remain in their
service two years, he shall be entitled to all the
privileges of a British subject, He did not know
that any question had been determined oq the
case, but he believed that the rights ofcitizenxhip
would notbedenied to any such person. Snppose,
then, an American seaman were voluntarily to
enter into the British service, and were to remain
there two years, would the United Btates think
of claiming such a person as their citizen f He
believed not. For his own part. Mr. G. sahl he
bad never been mnch astonisheii at the depreda-
tionHCommittedupon t.heirsean]en,and the reason
had been, that they had neverHhown a disposition
lorepel the injurienthey had received. Britain
had availed ihemiclves uf the fears of this coun-
try. Hi; believed that if they were to show an
uuanimiiy upon the subject, that abe would not
4tti Cos.— 27
extend her violations so far. He believed they
might, therefore, paws the prewnt biil, withoni
apprehension ; but whilst Britain ivas in want of
men, she was perfectly right to get men where tiiere
was no opposition made to her praciices. He
trusted they nhonld convince that nation they did
nota Iways mean to be silent ander their ill-ireat-
Mr. Habpbk should give his vote for the bill,
not because he thought it a perfect measure, or
even the best that might now be adoptej), but be-
cause it appeared necessary thai something should
be done on this subject^ and he saw no pmhability
of agreeing on nu^ thing more unexceptionable.
This he said had always been, and he believed al-
ways woold be found a very delicate and difGeult
subject; and whatever meoKures were adopted
would be very doubtful in their effect. This be
had no doubt would be the case with respect to
the present bill. Nevertheless, he was witling liia
experiment should be made, because whatever
was Rrsi^one must be merely an experiment, and
these regulations mi^ht hereafter be altered and
modified as time ana experience should prove to
be necessary.
Before he sat down, Mr. H. said he could not
help adverting to what bad been asserted by the
honorable member from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Qjil-
laTim] and repeated by anothtrhonorablemember
from Maryland, [Mr. 8. Smith ] and he should
not notice it now had it not been fre^tienlly as-
serted before in the House. Qenllenien had es-
(ertedoverandoveragain.forreasonshest known to
Lhemseleves, that the Treaty with G.eat Britain
tained no provision to prevent the impressment
American seamen. He wished toask those gen-
tlemen how they reconciled this assertion with
the 19th article of the Trealy, which he read in
he following words. "And that more abundant
lare may he taken for the security of the respec-
:ive subiecLt and citizens of the contracting par-
ies, and to prevent their suffering injuries by the
privateers and men-of-warof either party, all com-
manders of ships-of-war and privateers, and alt
others of the aid subjects or citizens, shall for-
bear doing any damage to those of the other party ■
or committing any outrage against them; and if
they act to the contrary they shall be punished,
id shall also be bound m their persons and estates
to make satisfaction and reparatioaforall damages
and the interest thereof, of whatever nature the
damages may be." He also read the 2d claase,
which provides that all captains of privateers, on
receiving their commissions, shall nive security
not to act contniry to the article. Unless it could
be proved, he said, thatan American seaman could
not be an American citizeu,and that impressment
was not an outrage, this article makes complete
provision against the impressment of American
seamen; and yet gentlemen had thought proper
to declare and rep.'at in the most general terms,
that'lheT.eaty made no provision against the im-
pressment of our senmen. Seamen on board of
American shipi, he said. cotislNted of three classes:
American ciiiiens. British itubjecis, and neutrals.
Persons may be American citizens from three
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
812
H.orR.]
Amtrican Seamen.
fMASca, 17(«-
causes^ the two flrat of which weie admitted by
the Brilish QoTenmient. Theymay firstbe Amer-
ican citizens becauM! they were born io America.
2Jly, They may be American citizens ^aiue
they were resideot in America, furmed a part of
the American people at the concliutun of iheTtea-
ty of Peace, by which Britain relinquished her
claim to allegiance from all persons then betong-
ingtothe body of the American nation. 3diy,
Person* may be American citizens from having
come to reside in America since the peace and
conformed to our laws of naiuraiizatiou. These
however Britain denies to he Amerieaa citizens.
She claims a right to their BllegiaDce, where origi'
nally her subject^ pursaani lo the maxim of her
laws that no subject can divest himaelf by his
own act of his allegiance. This claim is proba-
bly a mone the latt that she will surrender, and her
Mamen the last class of her sabjecls at to whom
she will surrender it. The present war, in which
ahe has her all itaked upon tne coolest, and where
her success and security essentially depcoUed on
her naral superiority, is perhaps the period of all
others when she would be most nnwilling tomake
thin concesHion; and the United Stales the last
Power to whom she would nuke it ; because they
possess more means than any other Power of at-
tracting het seamen and withdrawing them from
her Krrice. And yet because the Treaty did not,
under alt these circumxtances, obtain a relinquish-
roeni of this point, which Britain nerer has re-
linquished, even la her bcft friends aud most use-
ful allies, which a regard loher own safely would
forbid her to relinquish, especially at this time,
it i» charged with hafing made no provision
Sngainst the impressment of American seamen, and
that noiwiihslandio^ by the article which he had
read, complete provision was made for all those
whom she, without departing from her laws, can
acknowledge lo posse.-v thai cnaracter.
Mr. H. repealed thai he was one of those who
thought theeiperimeot intended by ihlsbill ought
to be made ; because ii is clear that uuDy of our
citizens stand in need of some farther aid, which
it was our duly to give ibem, aud do feat of in-
'coovenieoce ur prospect of gain could authorize
us to neglect a duty. He had no doubt that this
provision would operate to the disadvantage of
our commerce. A great proportioq of the seamen
00 board of our ships were British snbjecU, even
according to our laws. A number of those claim-
ed by us as ci izens under our naturalization laws,
were by the laws of Britain to be considered as
her subjects. These lwoclasiies,hebelieved.cum-
posed niae-lenths of the seamen from the port of
Charle too, and probably from most of the ports
sooth of the Delaware. In the northern and eani-
ern jMrts the proporli')n was smaller, but in all
very coaniderablr. Protections given to the na-
tive )>enmen would render the other classes more
exposed, bv drawing a clear and decided line ; and
WuulJ probably not only occasion but authorize a
greater number of impressments of seamen from
on board of our ships than now lake place, and in
that manner render our merchant service less se-
cure and lesa desirabli; to foreign seamen, and in-
crease the difficulty of manning our ships. Bal
notwithstanding tnis disadvantage, we owe pro-
tection to our citizens and must give it. And to
secure the protection' provided loc them by the
19ib article, certificates become uecessarjr.
Mr. CoiT thotigbt the descrintioD of cfficns
mentiimed io the Coitstitution to oe appointed by
the Pbesiueht, included all tboae which could be
appointed fordoing businesa with foreign ualiOM.
He referred to iheappoiniment of different ageui^
Mr. HigginsOB and Mr. Bayard, respecting the
British spoliations lo confirm nis opinion, and
asked geutlemen if for the appointment of those
agents there had been any Legislative authontyl
Ifnot, the PBEBtoBNT, he said, mtist be deemed
equally competent lo appoint agents for this par-
pose. He was far from charging gentlemen with
accusing the Executive with want of attentioa to
their seamen ; if they meant lo do this, lei thnn
do it ; bis argument was, that if the power of malc-
init the appoiQiraenis contemplated m the bill wai
placed in ilio pBBaioEHT by the Constitution, it
could not be contended that there was occasion
for tbe provision, unless there was a want of con-
fidence in the PaEaiDBNT. His other objections
to the bill were founded upon the methods of re-
ceiving evidence of citizenship being too Icxise.
He should have beeh obliged to the geuilenuui
fro 11 New York, if be had answered his objections
on that head ; but he had not done sa That gen-
llemaii's assertion, that AmericsQ ships were part
of the territory of the United States^ wan no an-
swer to those uojeciions — if the assertion was true,
however, it proved that there was no occasion for
the bill ; it can bave no effect. His objection to
tbe mode of receiving cvidenee VAt, tbat it would
be in the power of any forei^er, provided be can
get one witness toswiar with him that he is a
citizen of the United States, to obtain a certificate,
equally with a real citizen. Would such certifi-
cate, he asked, be respected in this country, so as
to supersede the regulation!) of the naturalrzation
act? If not,it could notbeexpecledihatit would
be respected abroad. IndeL'd,he apprehended more
mischief than good from the bill. The gentleman
from Maryland had acknowledged, that some re-
spect was now paid by the British to tbe protec-
tions of seamen ; but he apprehended when pro-
tectionsuader this act should becomegenend.(and
he believed few sailors would go without them,)
they would noi be respected at all; and. therefore,
iikstead of being of service, the bill would be in-
jurious to the real American Milur.
Mr. LiviHOBTOM said, it was not from a want
of due respect to the opinion of tbe gentleman
from Connecticut, if he had passed over his re-
marks in silence. That gentleman asked, if thef
could expect foreign qations to notice what they
themselves should not noiice ? He answered. No.
He said the proaf required of citizenship' io case
of a failure of re|[isters under this act, was the
as that required in Courts of Law ii» simi-
a-ses, and the best tbat tbe committee could
hit upon.
Mr. MaDiBQH observed, that the gentleman
from Connecticut seemed to think the present
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS;
MlHCH, 1796.]
fH..
points iirhie
neasuTt catit a refleatioD upon the Es«cati*«.
He could bjr no mnDs think to. He naid the
BiecUUTe had the power, bv the Connlitutioii, of
■ppoioting Arabatoadon, other public Minitters.
and CoDaulc; but the agentx propoied to be ap-
pointed in ihi* bill were neither AiohcsivdarK,
publicMiDister), nor Coasuli ; they would hare no
rank as public characters, but be mere agents to
do the business menlioaed in the act ; inat tfaejr
wers uoi Cansuk was plain, became they were
sent to do business which it was ««id the- CodsuIi
had BeKlected to do. Again, ha would remark,
that atthougb the Pbebibiht had the power to
appoint Ambassadors, other pablic Ministers, and
Consuls, the CoMtiiuiiou retjnired that the Senate
should approre anch appointmcDts. Bat, with
respect to agents, the case was different. The
PaaaiDENT appointed one agent, to setid to the
We^t Indies, without ihatconsent. He supposed,
therefore, that that appointment was Tounded on
«ome law relalive to intercourse with foreigo
nations ; he suppoaed, if the power was not so
derived it had been inaceuratety exercised. If
agents were to be employed, the offices should
be created by ihem. money appropriated, and left
to be filled by the Executive.
Mr. Mdhrit said, the Constitution had placed
the power in the PREBineNT of appointing Am-
basaadors, other jiublic Ministers, and Consuls;
and he did not think there was a power in that
House to enjoin him to appoint an agent to settle
rhieh were inrolred in the Law of Na*
1 they could enjoin him tn
open a negotiuiion, or to send a lurmal Amhassa-
dor. Ai It appeared to him that there was a
doubt in the minds of gentlemen on their right to
dictate to the Prbbidbnt to transact basin e&s rela-
tive to the Law of Nations, he would ask. there-
fore, whether it would not be better that the bill
should be recommilled.and undergo an alteration
which should merely auihoriise the PaesiDEnT to
draw money from the Treasury for the purpose
of effecting the busine» in question. He, there-
fore, mov^ that the bill be re-commiilcd.
Mr. W. LvMAti hoped the bill would not be re-
committed, if no better rtasons were urged for
thp measnie than he had heard. If they weru
Bboui to appoint Ministers it might be object-
ed lo ; but they did not designate who the agents
should be, hnt merely that agent* should be np-
poinled, and lei^ tbe Prbbimnt to appoint them.
But even if the House were to go so far as to
tay who the agents were to be, he was not certain
that they would act uneonstituiiooall^. They
might cite the precedentsofolher countries where
the King ha* a complete negative upon the Legis-
lature, and nroTe frequent instances of reijursts
of the Legi^latnre to appoint agents or Ministers.
And was it not propt-r that they should do this,
when they hnd information before them which
made such nppointmentu neces.«ry? Was it any
emrroachment, in the present case, on the function:)
of the PnBBineNT.to say that agents shall be ap-
pointed 7 They did not know that he pusieiised
the ioformaiion which bad come luihem lo show
them the necessity of ai^intingtheae agents. He
thought that Honse bad a right to say that a Mi-
nister should be sent to any foreign country. If
the other branches of GoTernment think different-
ly, they will, of coarse, neeatiTe the bill. With
respect to Dentral citizens, ne thought they wera
entitled to 1 heir protection; it was a reciprocal
protection ; for, if ihey did not protect neutral ci-
tiiens, they con M not expect their own citizen* to
be protected by other neutral nations. In refer-
ence to what bad been «aid with respect lo Qreat
Britain's denying that their subjects had the pow-
er of becoming American citizens, — their own
practice was in direct contradiction to this princi-
ple ; for, he beliered, if any of their lUannfBCIu-
ren went abroad, in two or three- years they be-
come aliens, and were deprived of the right* of
cilizenBhip; and surely, if tney denied men these
rights at home, they could not object to their hav-
ing them in aiwiher eonntry.
Mr. S. Smith hoped ihe re-commitment would
not lake place, as the same objections had befora
been urged to the bill. The fceDileman from South
Carolina [Mr. Harper] had charged the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania and himself with saying
that Ihe Treaty eoooluded with Geeat Britain af-
forded no protection to American seamen. He
yet said so. He had before read the IQth article
of the Treaty, but he found nothing there hut
general words, of course, which were thrown into
ell Treaties. He saw the same words io tbeir
Treaty with France, which he read. And be wai
certain when that Treaty was made, they had no
idea that the French would ever impress their
Mr. Heath spoke in favor <^ re-committing the
bill. He said he was a friend lo the ^incipla of
the bill, but did not like some pari* of it.
Mr. SwANWiCK hoped the bill would not be re-
committed. He did not think there was much
poHibility of maki'ng it belter. As to the method*
of taking evidence, a great deal of lime had alrea-
dy been spent on that sabject; and be did- not
think the objections lo the first clause of Ihe bill
were sufficiently strong to warrant a recommit-
meuL It would occasion delay, and every day the
hill was delayed was an injury to their seamen.
Their Armmerce in the West ladies would be to-
tally destroyed, if immediate measures were not
taken for the protection of their sailors. It was a
little strange, that when the vote was about to he
taken on the passing of the bill, the present objec-
tions should have been started. The gentleman
from Carolina [Mr. Harpeb] had said there was
an ariFcte in the late Treaty which went lo pro-
tect their seamen ; if so, he said the British nad
been in the habit of violating the Treaty ever
since it had been made. Mr. B. doubted not this
country would become rich and powerful, notwith-
standing all ibe aitempts of Great Britain to pre-
vent it. He thought it was necessary lo make a
distinction between native Americans and natives
of England, and that distinction would be made
in the certificate* granted. Why, said be, shall
we re-commit tbi* hilH Why not take ii as it
i*, since every aiiention ha* been paid to it in it*
diffitrent stages lo make it as perfect aa they wera
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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H.opR.|
American StamM,
Mmt .Tbey were ehirgad witb in anumpticnt
•f power. Could it bean amurapii^a of power,
he baid. to prevent and relieve tae Kuffermgx of
tbeir Tel low-citizens 7 If it wa«, it would be of a
kind which would be readily excused. It wa-->
forcfd upon them by the imperious uecetEity of
the caie. To what purpose wai it, said he, that
we granted immeDse auia; of money for the relieT
of a Rinall number of our seamen in Algiers, if we
■u&er a far greater number toremaia iiapresaed
in [be haDdn of the British 1
Mr. Giles thought, from the obtervatioDa Dow
made, ihal the geulleuien might have been absent
when the subject had before been discussed. Si-
milar abjeciiona lo thoK now uf^«d were made
in Compittee of the Whole, and if ihe biJ! Were
recommitted rt was prilbable it would uodertto do
alieration. Geullemeo reasoned a.^ if a majority
of that House bad detenaiued wrong on a lormer
occasion.
Mr. StTOBEAvEa said lie would trouble the
"^ House with a lew observations. He had second'
ed the motion for b re-commiimeni, nnd would
give his reasons for haviug done so. He had no
objection to the IbhI five sections of the bill, nor
on the score of eipence; but he objected to the
Sr.! clause, as an unctmstitutional and Very un-
necessary encroachment on the powersof.tbe Ei-
eculive. He believed that the agents proposed to
be oppointed by this act wouU be public Minis-
ters, according lo the meaning of the Ci
He believed complete power was viesled
. _ . , d that his no-
fioed or enlarged by that Huuse. He thought the
pBEsiDENT, and tl
Mme purposes might be attained in another way-
He was not leiis a frit- nd to seamen than the gen-
tleman who brought forward the present bill, or
those who supported iL The Prcbjdrnt ban on-
equivocally Ihe authority to name azents fur ef-
leciing the business in ({uestioA. Perhaps, Ihe
reason he has not done it, has be«'D owing to the
want of funds. Indeed, gentlemen had shown
tbey were insufficient. The Consuls in England,
it appeared, had no pay. 'Let a sum of money be
appropriated for ih« purpote of relieving their sea-
men, and placed in the hands of the Phesiiient
for the purpose. He can employ the present Coq-
■ula to do, the business, or appoint special »genL«
for the occasion, as .he judges best. He did not
wish that House to do more than the Constitu-
tion empowered them to do. If unanimity wae
desirable in this bilsmess, he thougiil it might be
attained by striking out the Srst section of Ihe hill ;
but, conceiving that, as it now stood, it was an
encroaohment uppa the nrerogalives of the Exe-
cutive, and conceiving also that that House had
alreadyshown todmuchdisposition loestead their
power, if the bill was not re-commilled, he should
Totea^minst it.
Mr. Paog thought the motion for re-commit-
ment WDs made in xtrict conformity to the rotex
of Ihe Houhe; hut that rule was intended to be
applied to cases where there was some unforedeen
detert in a bill, and a probability of itR being re-
moyed by a r.'-cummitmenl ; but there was, in
Lb opiniuo, no probability of the aiueiidment lak*
unanimity od the propoMd amendment, for ihoa
genlfemen alone could vote for it, who thought
that House a cypher.- and the ■uthoHty itf th«
Pbesidbnt unlimited in making Treaties, carry-
ing on negoita lions, and appoiniiog Ambasndors
ai|d acents. He hoped 'the House would think
with him, that, aKhougb the PaGaiDENT had a
right to make Treatiet^ to appoint Ambassadon
and Ministers, he had Bi>t a right, caprieiouslj- to
make Treaties^ wtlhoni the preriousadriceof the
Senate ; and that even in some inaianees he ought
not to treat without the wish or consent of that
House and the people. When a Treaty wb.h to
be made the Phebidekt was to make it ; when
an Arabataador or agent. was to be appointed, he
was to appoint him ; but the pHEainEHT hiinielf,
he believed, thought that be had no Canstitulim-
al authority to appoint auch agents as the present
bill proposed, or, he had no doubt, that he would
have appointed tlieip. As towJiai the Prbbideht
thoug-ht, however, it was-totatly immaterial to
that House, fur the Constitution |^ve them a right
to think for themselves; it taught that House to
disregard his reasons unless mdre than one-third
of both Houses sbouU be convinced by them — a
folio volume of his r asoos would have no weight
according to the Constitution. But he did he-
lieve, that, from the PiiBdiIiENT'acondnct, be him-
self did not suppose he possessed the powers which
the friends of ibe recommitment supposed he pos-
sessed. Mr. P., iherefure,' said he should vole
against the recommitment, and hoped the bill
would pa$s. as it would afford the pBRBinEivT ibe
means, in some degree, of prolectingr our sailors
against the piratical insultii to which they were
now so cruelly exposed, and would show a dispo-
sition in that House to lend -its aid, aud that aid,
it was known, might be applied. b« upim a former
occasion, if necessary, more eflWctnally than by
declaring war, even it the Uaitcd Slates had at
sea a powerful fleet of ships of the line.
Mr, CoiT said he bad seconded the motioa ot
recommitment, not witb an idee of defeating the
bill. He believed it would par-i, nor did be expect
to be able to have it so amended as to meet hi*
Own ideat ; but he thought a principal objection
might be removed. He thought there was no
propriety in declaring hy law thai agents shall be
appointed. Th^committee, in their report, mere-
ly declared, that agents would be necessary to be
appointed, and thal^ovision ougfarto be made for
their support, and not that a law shpuld past for
their a ppoiuimeni. The objects of the bill, he
said, would be completely answered by making
provij<ion for their .xupport, leaving the appoint-
ment to Ihe discretion of the PalcsinENT.
Mr. MuRRAV was sorry that gentlemen chould
have thought it so extraordinary tba.t an amend-
ment should he made at this late stage of the sub-
ject. He Kaid, their minds had been much en-
gaged for some lime past on an au important ques-
liun, and he owned he had not, before to day,
thought much upon the p'eKeot subject. The first
section of lite bill appeared to him so complete an
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mSlPORY OF OONGBBSS.
American Seamen.
[H..
he could Dot Bgne lo do so, except ibat
mtm itriKk oDt. The bill would begin equally
well with the xeeond section. How far' would
thin altetatioD affi^et lb« biti T - It would only af-
fect the first prioGiple, which directed the PnEai-
DRHTto aeDdageDlsialo foreign countries, which,
in hb opiniDii, were clearly piiblic Ministers.
Though be could liardly thiuk of opposing the
e«ntlenian from Virginia [Mr. MAoiaoN] who n-as
to profoandly rerseo in me Laws of Nalioos. It
appeved to hio) that (^otleman had foriDed bd
erroneotis ideathot the Piuhidbnt ytss an itOicer
of OJTertiineot, Bod not ooe of Jt^branches, spring-
ing from the mme root With thai Hou^e, riz; the
(oreTeigDty of the people. He- had soralry rights
pJaoed in him, amongst which were the appoint'
meni of MHiisiers, dtc-hiKlbat House were about
(o'eDJoin on him a duty, as if he vm merely an
officer. If the bill were reeoramilted, and this
amendinent were to take' place, he doubted not
that anoiiiiniiy would prenil in adopting ifae
mnsnre.
Mr. NiCBoLAs observed that (rentleoien had said
that the preseai meaiure was uncons(itutionBl,snil
therefore unnecessary. They were misiaken. If
the PBEattiiNr had the power he imii always suffi-
ctcnt fgadsin hi* bands to reliexe thtir impressed
aaameo ; bat they all know Ihey had not Men re-
lieved. He agreed that they irauld rely opon the
Fkebioint at much as upon miy man; but he
thought it would be going heyond a compliment,
to make the alteration proposed in the present bill.
They were told they were encroachingon the duty
of tae pREsiDEitT; he beliered the Cunstiiution
said the contrary. _ The gentleman from Maiy-
hind might have spared bis censures on those who
MOpporled this bill aa eadeavotiiig to narrow the
Executive power; he. might, with the same pro-
priety, say. that there were gentlemen who seem-
ed to think that there was no occasion for may
other power than that of the Pbesidbnt. There
was no ground for such charges. So far as he
knew the CDOstiiulioD, the present quibble upon
the article giving'the Pbebident certain pow-
ers with respect to the appointment of public offi-
cers bad no weight. It would be a nice assertion
to say that offices should not be created by the
Legislatore; the PaBeiDBnY. it is allowed, has the
power ofappointingoffidcrs; but was ih'erb a word
in the Cooslitution relative to the creation of offi-
cers 7 No ; he believed all that was meant bv the
Cunsiituiion was, that the President should lia
the power of pppointing all officers. He did c
believe the agents meant to be employed uni
the present act, were at all of the nature of thi
mentioned in the Constitution as undet iheap-
IMintment Of the PaEaioErtT; Ihey were occa-
sional and temporary ajents, to act in unison
with their Consulsi and it whs neithfr contrary to
the spirit nor leuer of the Constitotion. as do pub-
lic character wai> meant to b« gireo them to the
British Q.
r. SiDQwtcK bad do intention ol taking tip
b timeof the Committee, though he believed
the question imporfant, as it was, whether, by in-
trodncinga new name, they should tuialiy alter
the thiog itveir. If they referred to the Oonslitn-
tion, Ihey would there find that all foreign rela-
tions were given to the Executive. He recollict-
ed that, in the first Congress, a bill was reported
Which 1-fieeived the approbation of the House, pro-
Tiding inlercoDrse with foreign n&tions. It ao-
ihorized no officer, it only authorized the PaEai-
DErfT to satisfy the officers appointed by the Con-
stitution ; but it was rejected. The Presi dent,
some time ago, appointed an agent to go to the
West Indies, and was there a man who thought
tbe appointment un constitutional 7 What, then,
was' the meaning' nf Mioister? It was another
word for agent. Coasul.s and Ambassadors were
Ministers; they had Ministers of justice, and
the officers in all the departments of QovBro-
ment wcrC Ministers also. Any man who exe-
cutes en office must be called a Minister. For,
if, by changing a name, that House cootd era-
ate new oftiEers, tbe consequence would be^ that
the offices appointed by the Constitution would
themselves be destroyed. The Guvernmeat had
been established for seven years, and till now
he had never heard it contended that all for-
eign business was not vested in the Executive.
Tbere was no foreign business whatever, he raid,
but might be trqnsacled by an Ambassador, Minis-
ter, or Consul. By an authority placed in tbe
President and Senate by the CansiitutioDjthef
were appointed to carry on all foreign relationa.
But, if in this iostance, said Mr. S., by the altera-
tion of a name, you can create offices, and lake
from the Executive the power which the Consti-
tution has aivcn him, yoil may control the whuJe
less o [Go ve rumen t, as respects foreign rela-
tions, and put it in a new train. Would any man
undertake to read the Constitution, and say that
there was any foundation to be found the^e for
sucU a doctrine as this? He declared he wished
the objects of the present biH to be attained as
much as any man. Indeed, he believed, most of
the sailors of this country belonged to the Stata
which be had tbe honor lo represent He sup-
posed they had three times the tonnage of anf
other State, and their sailors were mostly native
Americans. But when gentlemen begin, by de-
claring the existence of a power in that House to
appoint Ojverninental agents, he must opjiose the
doctrine; since he was persuaded that, if there
was any truth in the Constitution, it was, that
the creaiionof Ministers of every kind was placed
in the Executive. Viewing the matter in this
light, It was impossible he could conform to the
bill, unless that principle was conceded.
Mr. S. Smith insisted that the practice now
contended for with respect to agents had been
adapted In vnricnu instances, particularly witk
respect to Indian affairs, and could not sea whf .
gemlemen should be so tenacious of the Execu-
tive department of the Government.
Mr. Giles said, the present bill was t^poaed on
Coostitutioal ground. Gentlemen had declarvd
it to be tbe object of the snpportenof the hill Lf
changing a name to alter the Constitution. Miuia-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.orRJ
Americcm Stamtn,
ten and God*u1s had been ipoken of. These, he.
■iid, hod always buainess with foreign Powers;
bat that contemplated in the present bill will have
BO such business. .' It was not merely the name,
therefore, but ibe substance, which was different.
Thejr would not have the sioallest relation to for-
eign Powers ; ihey would be appointed to attend
to their own citizens, and the only thing in which
they could hare any resemblance to Minijiera
was their residence in a foreign country. He
was not surprised that there should be just now
peculiar seosationa in the Houae respecting the
Kxecutire authority j otherwise, he beliered the
■ine idea was exercised in the India bill before
r^rred to. The objection was, therefore, merely
B quibble arising from their present situation. At
another time, tne circumstance would not ha?e
been noticed. He thought (bat great ingenuity
bad been used to make the objections which wt;re
urged against the bill; but which he apprehended,
would Mve little weight in apposing the passing
of the bill.
Mr. Sbdqwick wished to state a fact relative ta
the business with the Indians, which had been in-
trodoced. When that bill was under considera-
tion, he made a motion to strike out the number
of agents to be appointed, and they were struck
oat accordingly. That bill, he said, was managed
on the ideas which he bad suggested on the pre-
, Mot occasion. Indeed, if ever there was a prin-
ciple well established, it was tb&l which he now
urged.
Mr. OiLiGRT hoped the motion for a recommit-
ment would prevail. Though he was as much
a friend of the objects of the bill as any one, yet
be was persuaded that there would he found many
objections to the present bill which were not at
prevent foreseen. But he should be willing to
risk all its defects to an experiment, yet he doubt-
ed exceedingly the propriety of passing the first
clause of the hill in its present form. He was not
■atisfied in his own mind upon the subject. But
he thonKht it would tend to harmonize the opi-
nions of different gentlemen if it were recommit'
ted. He did not recollect that the objections now
made, were made in the Committee of the Whole
upon the resolution; he did not, therefore, consi-
der the majority before taken as conclusive, be-
cause he thought the objection was now against
the first clause of the bill,
Mr. W. Ltman insisted upon the right of that
House to create the offices contemplated by the
present bill. He said they were frequently told
to beware of usarping power. He could not tell
what this arose from ; lie was sure there was as
little to be apprehended from them as from either
of the other branches of GktvernmenL In short,
he believed there existed the loudest calls for the
act in question, and believing the House had the
powerwhich they were about lo exercise, he should
vote for the bill. And he thought the opposition
which had been raised to the measure in this late
Man had more the appearance of destroying thi
kilTthao anything else.
Hr. Q A LUTiK wished to mention a fact to show
ttM the PRuiuiiTwas of the same opiqiou '
him apd hit friends n^th r^pect to the ap^int-
ment of agents. When ■□ agent yna wanted to
be sent over to Holland for the purpose of nego-
tiating a Loan there, a letter was received by tbe
Committee of Ways and Moans, fro*ni the Secre-
ing an asent on the oi
OEHT had thought he had such a power, be would
have appointed an agent, without coakins appU-
catioQ to that House. It appeared, ther^ore, loit
when a special agent was to be appointed, he
was, not considered as a public Hinister. The
■gent, in the case he had referred to, was to in-
quire who were the ptoper persona 10 execute
money transactions in the Oovemmeat of Holbndi
the agent, under the present bill, waa to make in-
quiries respecting the impressmeDt of their sea-
men. This duty would'flol be diplomade, bat a
mere simple agency. The fact he had stated
ought to repel all further ohjectioos as to the ap-
pointment of agents in this business.
The question was then taken upon recommit-
ting the bill, which was negatived — yeas 23, nays
'X
The question was then put on the passage ef
the bill, and decided it) the affirmative — yeas 77,
nays 13, as follows;
Ysis.-r-TlMiidaTas Biiley, David Baid, AbiahuB
Baldwm, {.emnel Benton, Tliamss Blotinl, BeD>miB
Baume, Theophilus BrwUmiy, Bichard Brait, Nslhu
Brysn, Dsniet Buck, Dsmpaej Bnigaa, Samust J> Ca-
bell, Gabriel Christie, Tboaiw Claiborne, John Clop-
tan, Isaac Colei, Joreroiah Cnbb, Henry Beulwra,
George Dent, SwDuel Esile, Williaiu FinJkj, Atwl
Fnalcr, Jesse Fcsnklhi, Nathaniel Freeman, Jc. Albert
Gallatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, WiUtam B. GUee, itaa GO-
lespie, Nicholas Gilnian, Benjamin Goodhue, Asdmr
Greg:g, Christopher <?teenap. Wade Haiopton, Geof*
Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, Robert Goodloe Hireet,
John Hathom, Jonathan N. Havens, John Healh, Da-
niel Heialer, James Hillhoiue, James Holland, Geerge
Jackson, John Wilkes Kittera, Edward LrringMoa,
Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Samuel Mada;, Ni-
thanial Mac«ii, Jam« Madison, Fnneia Malbone, Joint
Miltedge, Andrew Mo<»«, Prededek A. MnUenbeq,
Anthony New, John NicholM, Alexander D. On. Jsk*
Page, Jonah Farkm, Prand* Pre«on, Rob<«t itndM-
ford, John B. Sherbame, larael Smith, Isaac flinit^^
mnel Smith, William SmiOi, Thomaa Sprits, i<*^
awanwick, Absalom Tatom, Msik ThompMD, John ^■
Van ADen, Philip Van Coitlandt. Jowph B. Vinwoi.
Abraham Venable, Peleg Wadiv>orth, John Wilbssw
■nd Richard Winn.
Naia^-Joshua Coit, William Cooper, Heniy Ctoi
Channcey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, WiUiua HinO-
mao,8amuel Lyman, William Vans Mnnay, Thw^""
Sedgwick, Samuel Sitgreaves, Nathaniel Snilh, "-
pbaniah Swift, and Uriah Tracy.
Reiolved, That the tide of ihesaid biilbe,''Aii
act for the relief and protection of American sea-
men ;" and that the Clerk of Ibis HoUM do can J
it to the Senate and desire their concarrence.
Tdsbday, March S9,
Mr. MtiBLERBEaa presented a memorialof «i^
dry inhabitants ofNewca«tle,aiating that they UB
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mSTORT OF CONGRESa
UiiioB,17f6.J
Trtatg wilh Spattt—OmtttUd Ekdion.
fH-orR.
Mveted tiro pien by mmtii of a lottery, but rhit,
nrinf to the advanecd price of materials and la-
bor, the* coold Dot erect a third wHboat pablic
aid, and praj ed, therribre, that one of ihe foui
additioDBl pien Ordered to be erected in the bay
and rivar Delaware, might be erected opposite
Newcastle.
The memorial was referred to the Secretary of
the Treasary to ttpon his opinion thereupon.
Mr. SaDflwioE preaenied memorials from the
iobabitanis of Kingston and Hancock, in the State
of Vermont, aaaiDst the electiw of leitAEt. Smith,
and in favor of the pretensions of M&thew Ltoii,
irbich were read, and referred to the Committee
of Blectiona.
A petition was presented of sundry messengers
and (^ce-keepers in the 'Treasury Department,
praying that iheyraay teceire sdditional compen-
■aiioti to reimburse the extraordiDarr experses
which they JDOurrei) in discharging tneir official
duties, during the calamity in the city of Pbila-
delphia, in the yedr one thoasand seven hundred
and n IBM y-three, where they remained at the great
wraoital hazard of themseWes and families. Re-
ferred to the Committee of Claims.
TREATY WITH SPAIN.
OtmUtmtii oftht HouteofReprueaiatitia:
I send, berentlh, • copy of the Tiea^ of Friendship,
Limits, and NaTigation, eonclnded on the 27lh of Oc-
tober last, brtween the United States and Hi* CsthoEic
H^jealy. This Treaty has been ratified W nie, agree-
ably U tbe Constitatiin] ; ud the ratjArsnon has been
deqiatched for Spain, when it will doubtless be imme-
diatety mliAed by His Csdiolic Maje*^.
Thu eaily commnnicalion of the Tns^ with Spain
has bacome poScsssry, because it is stipulated in the
third article, that Commissionais far mnning the boun-
dsiT line between the Trniitorr ef the United States
•nil the Spuiidi Cokmisa of EmI and Wert Florida,
sball meal at the Natdies, before tbe eniiatian of six
momlha from the ratificatian. And as that pcnod will
oDdoubledly aims before the next meeting of Cmgreas,
Iba House will see the Doceiwitj of nwUcg proTiiion,
in their present neHoo, for the object hem mentioned.
It will alio be necensry to pioTide foi the ezpeose to be
innnTcd in eiacuting the twenty-fint siticia of the
Trea^, to enable oni feDow-cititens to obtain, with u
Utile delay ss poenble, compensation lor the losses they
have saatained by the capture of their vee^ end cat-
goea by the sol^ecls of His CathoUc Mqeslj, during the
late war between Ptance and Spun.
W^m.r— of the moneys necessary to be provided for
Hte pniposDB of this and several other TresHfls with fo-
reign nalians and the Indian tribes, wiU be laid before
ion by t^ proper Depsitment.
G. WASHINUTON,
Unrn Btatbs, Ibrth 39, I79S.
Tbe Message and Treaty were rrferred to the
Committee of the Whole on the state of the
CONTESTED ELECTION.
Tbe order of the day was called for upon the
TCftat of tk« Coanhlee of fflaetiona, on the pe-
tition of sundry inhabitants of the seeood middle
district of Massachiiaeita, (complaining of an un-
due election and leinm of JoaaPB Bbadlet V&b-
NtTM as a member of this House.) ashing instruc
tionswith respect toreceivingeviaeDce in that case;
and tbe House having formed itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole, entered upon a discussion of
the resolution of Mr. Bedowick for recommitting
the report, and directing tbe committee to point
out a proper mode of receiving evidence in the
ease, a long debate took place, which, oot being
concluded, the Committee had leave to sit again.
Wednebday, March 30.
A petition from Zaehariah Cox and others,
from the frontiers of Georgia, praying for a grant
of money, as a loao^ to carry on an intercourse
with the Indian tribes, under certain conditionit, '
was read and referred to the Committee of Com-
merce and Mannfactures.
Thebiltsuihofiiing a Lonn for tbe city of Wash-
ington, and the bill for erecting a li(^ht-honse oh
Baker's Inland, went through Committees of the
Wholf House, and were ordered to be engrossed
for a third reading lo-morrow.
The House went into a Committee of th- Whole
House on the report of the Committee of Claims,
to whom was referred the petition of Maria But-
ler; and, after sometime spent therein, the Com-
mittee rose and reported the following resolution:
" Saehal, That die .ptovistims for widows and or>-
phsns of commissioned oScei* of the troops of the UniU
ed Stalee, contained in the first section crfthe lew of tha
United States, pssaed the seventh of June, one tfaotusnd
seven hundred and nine^'jbnr, entitled ■ An act in ad-
dition to the act for making fiiither end more effectnsi
provisiDn for the protection of the Irontien of tbe Unit-
ed Ststes,' be extended to the widows sod orphstii of
commissioned ofG can in the troops of the United Ststas,
and of the militia who have died bj reason of wounds
received since the fonrth dsy of Msrch, one thnn-
sand Hreen hundred and eigh^-nine, in the actual
seniee of ^le United States) provided application shsU
be made, within —n~sfter the end of the present sesnon
of CongrBM "
The resolution was agreed to, and tbe Commit-
e of Claims ordered to bring in a bill.
The House resolv«l itself into a Committee of
the Whole on a bill, in addition to an act for sup-
porting of Public Credit, and for the redemption
of the Public Debt; hut not coming to any con-
'usion, the Committee bad leave to sit again.'
THE BRiriSH TREATY.
A Message was received from the PREBtnEifT
' THE Ukiteo Stateb, IB BOfiwer to the resolu-
..jn calling for papers in relation to the Treaty^
which was read, and ordered to Ue on the tabic.
[For this Message, see ante, page 760.]
CONTESTED ELECTION.
A great part of this dav's sitting was <
by the ounsideration of the report of the Commit-
tee of&leciions, to whom were referred the me-
morials and petitions of sundry electors of the ae-
eond middle distriei of tbe State of HassBcho-
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SS3
HIST(»tT OP COHCmBtt.
SB4
H.orR.J
OmkiUd R'tcUon.
TNUbch. l7gC.
teita,complainin)ioran aadue Hection aod rt
of JosGPB Bradley ViBKUH, E«)., laserre
menibar in t bat Hou»r.
Tbe report of the comoiillee jna in the follow-
ing worila :
The Cammitlee of Eledionis to whom w«f« nfernd
the petltiona of aonJrf penoni of the leooDd middle
diMnet of the Sum of MunchuMtU, umpluning or ui
nndue tUctioa ud iMorn of Joeeph Bndlaj Vunum,
M • membar of thii Uooee, h»e, ■ocordins to order,
ptocaedad to exunine lh«i>etilion->, uil Ibe documeDta
that ■ceompanj th«n. Th^ hns kLw nceived ^noi
Aaron Brown, > p«titioneT, ■ ptpei purporting b
qieciGeation oCtbe beta relied on toiapponthe ct
and prajing tar a general power lo taie eridenca in lup-
pnt Ibm^; which ii ai fcBowi :
*■ A MUaoient of facta to be proved b; tbe poti-
" lat. That one huodied and eighty-fire votn wwa
retutntd b; the Selectmea of Oracutt, and cDunlad by
the GoreraoT and CoundL"
" Sd. That, oTthoa*, aiity were illegal and bad— fif-
tf-fiie ballotaoT tqtcabaing rtceiTcd and certified tre the
Salectmen or preaUling offiren, of whom Joeaph Brad-
ley Vamum, Caq-, waa one, which were giren hj pioi;,
llMt te, *otea from peiaona who were itot prewnt at the
neet'jig, hot from other peraona who pretended to aft
for them. And fiva Totei were receiied and certified
hf the laid prealding olfieeia, nhirh were giten by per-
■ona, by law, not qaalifiad to rote at aaid meeling."
** 3d. If Mr. Vamum dora propaae to eiunine
pnoeedingi at the meatinga of any other towna in the
oiatrkt, (be patitiBiiera wiah to roaarre libeTty of ahow-
ing thM TOlea fiwn for Mr. Varnum in any other towd
in Ike dialric* wen iOegal. "AARON BROWN,
** Ftit (Ac pelitumen.
On tbs ISth of March, 1796, the aatd Aaron Brown
BobjiKnedthe Ibllowing explanation on the aUnaipeci
flcation.
" The petitiMieia expect to prove that the above aixty
illegtl votea were received by the Selectmen, by allow-
ing that the whole nambrrof legal voteia were not more
than two hundred and twenty-five; ofvibidi number,
one hundred did not attend the meeting on the S3d day
of March 1 ut, and a part of thoae that did attend and
vote, weia not legally qualified to vote.
"AARON BROWN."
Aba the objection* of the aitting member, and a re-
qulaition that the petitioner* be held to a apedfiration
of the name* oftho penoni objected to, and the ohjec-
tioua to each, a notification thereof to the aitting meni'
bar, before he ahoulil be compalted to taks evidence
concerning the matteia alleged^ or make any annrcr
thereto.
Upon sU whidi, aa well fiom the difiknlly of the
caae, aa from a deaiie lo have unilbrmlty in proceed-
ing* ofthi* kind, your comniittea have been indoced to
pray the Jnatructiona of tbe Houee, aa to the kind of
apecifieation that ihall be demanded Bf At petitionen,
and the manner in which tbaevidanca aball ba taken.
Mr. Sedgwick proposed a te*oluuon lo the fol-
IowId^ effect:
-Stnbied, That Oe Cammiltee of Election* be in-
•tntetad to praacriba an eadent mode wbarebj evittance
may be taken ralaliva to the beta- ■*! forth in aaid pctt-
tiona and the apaeificationa of Aaron Brawn, agent Im
Iha aaid pelitioliaTa.". .
Tbta reaolulioD wu lapporied bj Meaara. Sedg-
wick, Swirr, BBaDBu&y, Amu, Thatcbeh, Hili.-
H0D8E, and JEAHMian Smitb; and was oppoard
by Mrairs. Vehable, W. LTMaH, Dearbobx,
SwANWiCE, NicHOLAB, GAU.aTUi, Bod S. Sjiitb.
The principal argumenta osed )D support of the
resolution were, that the fact* stated in the pfti-
tiooB and dociimeDt* were Bufficiently explicit;
that tbe facia, if prof ed, were rofttorial, fur, aa Mr.
VamioM had only • majority of elevea votntif
twenty-ihtee out of aijily Fotea cbarged to be ille-
gal, were proved really so, the^ would invalidate
thie election ; the puctibility. of proving the (acta
waa nhown, in a variety ol ways, and tjie modea
oTcoDdncling the elections in the Sjtate of Ma»a-
cbtnetta eRputned ; that when facta were alleged
sufficient to le I aside an election, if proved, ii was
tbe duty of that. House to prescribe modes of tak-
ing theiD in evidence ; (several insIaDcea were
mentioned Id which modes of taking evidence bad
been prescribed ;) ihnl the Damesof tbe illegal
voters eauld not be obtained, no list being kepi of
persons entitled to vole for Bepreseuiatives ; that
the Town Clerk of Dracuit bad refused to aive a
ceniSed copy of tbe records, and none of toe in-
habilaou of that town, from their attachment li
Mr. Varkdn, would give any inrormalioD reapect-
iDg the election ; tbe necessity of gMrding tbe
purity of elections WBt iiiaiated upon, and that pe-
titioners against undue retarnsihuuld by.qoiueap*
be discouraged. It was observed, it bad been al-
leged because petitions had a tendency to n^be
members uneary in tbeir seats they should not be
encouraged, but this was aoEwered to be an ill-
founded doctrine, and Mr. Varhvh waa advised
to come forward and challenge invesiigatloD, ra-
thrr than appear to wisb to stifle it.
Tbe arguments against the resolulionvete, that
the facta stated were not suffioienily specific to
warrant any proceedings oflbatHoiue upon ibem;
that, if the votes staled to be bad were really ao,
tbeir names might be obtained i thai it was im-
proper to harass electors or give uneaaineaa to a
ailtiog member upon slight grounds, aa, if tbai
were the case, it would be in tbe power of any
man, from piqoe or any other cause, to put a mem-
ber to great trouble and expense, and mifchl pre-
a man of moderate furtune froni iiutding a
in that House^ because he vras notable lo
bear the expense of meeting vexatious attempts
10 displace him. Tbe manner of bringing tor-
ward the subject was objected to ; ii was .'^itt (bat
A. Brown, the aKent. had signed the petition al-
K came to this city ; thai iberc wax no evi-
dence of his being employed as aeent, nobody was
seen in the matter, but that single man, f ihe peo-
tle of Draeutt being so satisfied as aol U> give
iiil any information on the subject.) and be bav-
in- left the city, the buaineas ought lo have been
rejected ; that petitionera ovgbl to hav^ all doe
atieniion paid to them- hut that the aitting mem-
ber ought not to be fur^tten, that the Mouse
sljould be cautious of going into a matter of Ibia
sort, as it was making ihemwlves a prirty ; that
(■ii-y iMghi Dol lOTolflaieeriDoearcbof evideiree;
Ibai t» grant the powei required, would be to gnai
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825
mSTOBT XW COKGRESa
s*e
M*»ca, nw.]-
ItoiM to lh» CUf of H (MJUiv'm-
rH.orlt.
M inqaiHtOTwI^mrloawnr everjnimD if^Dn-
cntt, lod, p<!rba[w,eveiitiMlly, erery man in tbe
diHttict, to tbe amount of three or luur thouMod ;
that the failure ia gelttng fvideace of tlie faeU
stated, wax a preiuinipliTe proof Dffia cvald be
got; that »e vera 1 elections had alreadj been eon-
teated, and it would be exuemely wrong to give
new binh to the content rroic ao slight a gronnd ;
that Mr.BroFwn had not been able toget facts, and
wisiAd ttiat Hoaae lo enable him la bum them
up i ibat it was impouible lo prove ibe facia slated,
it not being in tbe power of ttve Town Clerk or any
other penoD, to mukeoui a list af persons eotiileil
to Toie at tbe laat election, aa their right depend-
ed on their bejag worth XCO, or £3, ■ year, in any
pnqterty whaler^r; thai the Tuwn Clerk of Dni-
cuitopaned tbe books' to Mr. Brown, bui would
not himself copy anyihiaic ; and that Ihi* noiver-
•al reapect for Mr. Varhdii, in the place where
he lired. contradicted tbe old prorerb, "that a
prophet oai no honor ia bi* own couniry."
1q tha course of tbe debate amendiuent« were
tiered by Mr. CofT aad Ur. Gallatin to Mr.
SaDowica'a reioluiiun ; but they all gave way to
ibe two reaointions pmKned by Mr. NioaOLAa,
which were carried, oa followi :
'■AeaoJBMf, ThattheallegaiioMof AaranBrowo,
■geol for the petit ionera, as lofiny-fire vote* given
by proay, is sufficitotly certain."
" BeaolMd, That the allegation* of the said
Aaron Brown, as to penoos not qualified to vote,
ts Boi aufiBciently ceruia, and thai the Dames of
the person* objected lo for want of snffieient qua-
lificaiioBi, Hghl to be set forth, ptior to taking
of the leidiinooy.*'
Oo Mr. CooPB
Mr. VaMiuM to come forward,
He did not think it neCeMary for him to npeak
OB this subject. It was not very pln«ant to sit
there and bear gentlemen from the miue Slate,
treat htm with uU the pentoaalities possible, but
he would patiently submit. He asked whether
Mr. Brown had not said he came forward in this
business front political molives, and whether a
m>n bad not declared he had been paid to swear
falxHy 1
These ebaraeawere denied by every gentlemen
^rhn sapporiea the resolution.
At the same time that Mr. NicaoLui proposed
tbe two ruolaiions whieh were passed, he propos-
ed aiMtfaer respecting the irrelevancy of Mr.
Brown's second stRtemetit, and, after conHideia-
Ue debate, in which MesirH. Nkbolab. Qalla-
TiH, W. LvKAK, and FmnLAT Mipported it, and
Mesar*. HARPsa. Kittbra, Ooodbdk. Tbact,
TaAToacR, and SanuwtcK, oppoacd it, it was ne-
galived.
And the House adjourned.
THOasDAT, Mafeh 91.
The bill authorizing the erection of a ligbt-
house on Baker's Mand was read a third lime and
pa«wd.
LOAN FOR THE UITT OF WABRWOTON.
Tha hiU Mthoiaiat a I<au twc tha Citj.oi
Washington, and for oihar purposex, was reail a.
third time ; and tbe blanks being filled up as ful-
lows: the whole amomnt of the Loan to be fille4
up witb 3lK),000 dollara, not mure ihao a(X},tX>0 ia
any one year, and t« hear iatereai of six per eenL
"imbunwble al any time after the year 1S03.
The question being on the passage of tbe bill —
Mr.Corr declared himself against the bill. He
couMdered it as taking so mnch money out of iha
Publie Treasury, and that alihough it was con-
sidcredonly as a guaraatee fur piymciit of mooey
borrowed on very ample funds, it would operate
n» oiherwifle than as an absolute grant. Indeed
an absolute grant, be said, would be less exception-
able lo him, an be considered that ihif bill was
banging out ^alae colors to the public, as it would
teniT lo hold up. ike idea that there was a value in
the lots in the City of Washingtoa, which he be-
lieved did not exist.
Tbe value which had been anaexed to thoae
loti>, be believed, was a mere speculating bubble.
This bill might serve to keep ii up a Ifltle whila
longer, but he believed it must fiaatly burst. Up-
wards of four thousand iota, ii was true, had been
-■'old, and the public bad more ihaa four thousaod
on hand, which were said to be worth, on an aver-
age, 285 dollars each, these. witb some water lots,
wbich are set at 16 dollars per foot, are estimated
at more Ihan 1,300,000 dollars— but, if cBrried to
market now, il was asreed there were no purelw
ners for them. Mr. C fsid. he had inquired into
tbe situatioa of thi" city— be asked gentlimen ta
look at the map of tbe couniry, and ihey tnight
Judge of its situatioD ; it was true, it was nearly at
the headof the navigation of the Potomac, a nobla
river, and in a fine country ; but there was nothing
logireto tbiacity exclusive poasenion of tbe com-
merce of that couniry, or of Uat river. Alexandria,
a few miles below it, and Georgetown a few miles
only above, on the same river, bad equal advan-
tages of siiuation, and had tbe prelerenee of hav-
ing merchants, as he was informed, witb very
considerable eapiiala, already establisbed ill them i
Baltioiure, at tbe head of Chesapeake Bay. on ibi*
Hide, and Norfulk, not far from the mouth of James
river, he conceived werDsitUBtioiiii, more especially
ronsidering-the strength of capitals already fixed
al them, far more ad vantageoos fur extennive com-
merce. These lots, it most be agreed, could be of
DO more vake than other planting ground, unless
there was a demand for them a* building lots. If
the Federal City were likely to become a great
commercial plac^ thatdemaiid might ut some fu-
ture period exist, buiorthia he conceived there waa
not the remoiebt probabilityi and he believed that
for the justice ol this opinion, he might safely ap-
peal to every commercial ma> acquainted wiin the
sitDation. Aod not prejudiced by local coasidera-'
tioos. What, then, he inquired was to cause a if
maod for (hcM lots ? The merermideneeof Coa-
gKM, he conceived, most go bui an inconidderabla
way tu tbe forming a great oily. Two or threa
hundred houses, at the utmoat extent, must nnffice
for CongreM and all its CDnaexions and appeat^
age* for luny years.
Ui. C Mut, ha had no wish to okttnu iha ie>
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HlffTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.ofH.j
Loan to the CUf of fftotU^oA.
[MkRcB, 170&
moral of the Seat of Gonrament to Ac PedenI
Cilv. He beli«Te<l it would be renioTed, and he
wistied it, and he beliered 'that the baildiain for
the ■ceomraodatioD of Coueresi moit fioaltf be
made at the public expeoMjliui he wished it to be
done ID an anderetanding aad not id a coven way.
Uufortiuialely there h«d alreadf been expended be-
tween three and four hundred thousand dollan, as
he conceired, to what waa worse than no purpose.
He did DDt accuve any person of having embez-
sled or misspent (he public iBoney, except in the
extravagance of the plans which had unfortunate-
Ir been adopted — B7,000 dollars had been expended
00 the PaieiDEHT'a house, and it it eaiimated
Aa( nearly as much more will be wanted to t
ptete it, and when done, he conceived thata honse
which would con only aOSm wonid better answer
ihepurpoeei about 80,D0Q had been expended oo
the Capitol, and progress was scarcely made be-
yond the foundaiioa. Qenitemen might talk of
elep.ance, of splandor. and magnificence, for people
who had money to expend for their pride or plea-
sure; these subjects deserved coosideration, but in
the present state of the finances of the United
States, he thought more attention should be paid
to use and economy.
Considerable revenues, he observed, were now
at the disposal of the Commisaiaaers of the Fede-
ral City. If left to use (he means ihei^ had at
eomtnaad, he hoped necessitv would oblige them
tocontnci the extravagant plsni for the buildinip
which had been commenced; but. if the Public
Treaaury was once opened he should expect many
ftitufe applieations and heavy ones on the Public
Treunry for those buildings, which, he feared,
would be a lasting monument of the pride and
folly of bis country. He observed, that poraibiy he
was alone in these sentiments, bat he could not
justify himselfwithout expressing them, and, wish~
iDg to know if inyeentlemeo coAcorred with him
in opposition to the oill, closed with calling for the
yeas and nays. <<
Hr. SiTOBEAVEa said, he also should vote agarast
die bill; he objected to its form and toitsaubstance;
to the form, because he thought it held out a de-
laaive Kppeanutce of security to the mooey-leod-
en, and of indemnity to (he United States, by pro-
fn>iinr to moi^gige lots in the city of Washing-
ton, mich, be contended, are not at the disposal
of me Oovemmnit. By the deed of trust, which
had been read on the former debate of this bill, it
appeared that all th» lands in the Fedenl City had
been eoaveyed by the individuajs who formerly
owned them, to trustees in special trust, to wit.
that so much of them as mi^bt be approprieted
for streetSL squares, and the sites of public bnild-
ings, should, by the trustees, be conveyed to the
Commissioners [appointed under the act of 1790,
for eslabltshtng tbe temporary and permanent
Beat of QoTeroment3 and their successors for the
iMt of the United States; that the rexidne should
be laid out in lots, one-half whereof to be recon-
reyed to the other grenters, and the ether half to
besolJ under the directions of the Phemdeht;
that the produce of the sales should in' the first
^■eebeap^ed toihefaymentia money of XJ15
per acre, to t)Ie grvnlers, for all thb reserved lands
except the streets ; aad thnt the remainder of the
money or securities should be paid, assigned, and
delivered over to the pRBSinEitT or tbb Unjtbb
States, for tbe lime being, is a grant of money (»
be apidied far the purposes and according to the
act of CcHigress before mentioned. From hence
'asbington, except the streets, squares, and sites
of the public bnildings ; that the residue of the lots
are not held in trust for the United States, and of
course cannot be mortgaged by them, and that the
QovernmeDt had only a right to the proceeds (rf
the sales. Thix c<»isirnctiDa is authorized by tbe
remarkable difference between the expression of
the trust so far as relates to the lots directed to be
conveyed to the Commissionen, and those direct-
ed to be sold.
It is also anthorized-by (be provisions of iheaetof
1790,incareful conformity with which tbe deed a[>-
peara to have been drawn; and which empower
the Commissioners to receive grants of Uods for
the sites of the buildings, and of money for the
purpose of erecting them. It was clear, therefore,
that (he bill assumed too much when it under-
takes to mortgage the lands, and that aU really in
□ur power would be (o pledge the funds arising
from the sales after they ^hatl be paid over to the
Pbesident. But if these lands are at the disposal
of the United States, then, for tbe security of tbe
Government, the bill should ro further, and direct
them to be conveyed, in the first instance, to some
responsible officer of the Government. The trus-
tees who have at present the legal title to these
lajids, can in nowise be considered as irfGcers of
the Government, amenable toil in a public caps-
city, We cannot reiiuire of them to give security
for the faithful performance of their trust. We
cannot impeach tbem for n violation of it. We
have no other reliance than on (he respectability
of their private characters — no other remedy than
a suit in chancnv, as in common eases of {H'ivete
trusts. When they sell the land, they may pay
over the money, or thev may not. Even tbe Pre-
sident is not responsible in his public character
nntil after the money comes into bis bands. Mr.
had great Tespect for his opinion, yet when Ih*
propriety of vesting tbe Uods in a responsible pub-
lic officer, an additional security was aiwgested
(o the Attorney General, he hesitated, and event-
ually declined to give tbe bill that shape. From
these ccfusiderations Mr. S. inferred that the bill
did not, in fact, give the money, or render the se-
curity i(,professed to offer; or, if it did.it was AeS-
cient in the provision necessary for tne complete
indemnity of the Government.
On these principles he objected to the fonn j ke
objected also to the iiubstance. He did not consider
tbe faith of the Government as pledged, by any
one act it had hitherto done, to pass the present
bill ; if good fktth imposed no obligation on them,
he WM sore (bat prooence fbrfaode (Jrantodoiti
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HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
UAKCB,i7oa.]
£m» to tJu CXty of Waaiinglm.
[H.orR.
t^ m refrKiKB lo tbe act of 1700, no mth oUigt-
uon would befODDil lobeemCedby itj it will ap-
pear by it that lbe<k>iiiTDi*sioDerB are empowered
to purcbaM gr tccapt such qoantjlf of land witb-
in the Federal teniiory as tbe Pbesidbmt ahall
deem proper for the ate of the United Staiei. And
topiovide BuitaUebaildiDes for the aaconiTDoda'
tion of CoDgress, of the PhK8ident, and of the
public office! — and -for defraying ifae expaiw of
toeh parehaaea and buitdio^ toe " PnEarDEKT is
antfaorized to accept grantsof money"— there is
for thii pQTpMC DO •{^>ropriatian of pnblic money
nor any promise of laehapproprialion; oogaariD*
lee, nor any assurance of « guartniee; for tti» ez-
peDM of the removal of the public office* an appro-
priation is made;and thia proriaioo nhowx that no
other expenae to the QoTcrnmentwas cmlempla-
ted ; those who were members of the (JoagrcM of
ITtU know the fact to be so, that the propowd
grants of the Staiesof Vir^iuia and Maryland, and
of indiTiduals, were expected to be competent to
the objeel, and that such an expectniioa and
awarance was a condition do wnich the law
paned ; a condition not indeed expressed in the
act, but which for that reason we are not the
less bound to respect ; a condition the breach
of which would have all the aggravation ofa vio-
lation of conGdenee. The GhiverDment therefore
not being pledged to the object trf the bill, hecon-
lidered ue House as reatrained by every consider-
ation of prudence from acceding lo it. Anv gen-
tlenun who would take the trouble, a* he baa done,
to examine the papers on their table wotild dis-
cern ihnt the extent of the citj^, the distribation
and the plan* of the public buildinipi. bad been
predicated on a scale of oitfcnifierDce. the eventual
expense of which was not within the reach of calcu-
lation, or even of conjectare; would it.be proper
then for Congieaa by passiog this bill to give greund
for an opinion that the United States were to adopt
and to become the foster-lather of those projects]
Oentlemen had aOecled to eoosider the proposed
measure as one which could not involve the Oo-
vernment; but a gaaranlee implies in itself the
poasibility of an eventual loss; it necessarily im-
plies a supposed deficiency in th« security to be
guaranteed. If the lots in the Federal City are
themselves a sufficient secnrity for the proposed
Loan there could be no occasion to call in aid the
fiiith of the Government. The bill therefore ought
iairly to be considered as a grant of money on the
port of the United States for the purpoae of prose-
eating the public buildings in the City of Wash-
in^oo, and if they once began to grant money for
this purpose, he asked, when they were to stop 1
He would rentnre to i^y, never, if their gntnti
were to keep pace with (be necessities of that in-
stituiioni he believed the law of 1700 never would
have passed tflbe most solemn aasurnnces bad not
been given ihat no sack application would ever
bciaadeio theOoveramenCiaodhe therefore felt
himself bound iof>ppoM tbebilL
Ur. Ni«Hoi.aB was not willing to irauble the
Home an this bnsineas. He would, however,
make a few obaervatioae on what h«d Imllen from
the gentUnMB from CnB—ctieW, with napnct to
the valde of the property. He was authorized by
th« Commissioner attending Oongrcte to say,
that>4000leto had been-sold lor 100 dollars each,
since this question had been first agitated, and it
must be evident that seventy doHan a lot would
indemnify Qoremment for the amount of their
guarantee. He did not expect, after na investiga-
tion bad been had and report made, that Qovem-
ment would be rafein the ndvance of 500,000 dol-
lars, that 300,000 could have been objected to be-
cause tha lots could cot be sold in a raompnt.
Many things were of great value, for whii-h pur*
chasers were not at all limes to be fonnd. The r»-
irity of
marks of the gentleman from Peoosylvania,
the law of (his case, might, from the obscurity
the subject, be said, haveitomcwel^t. He would,
therefore, notice them. He objected to the form
of the bill, becauHC it was a deception of the poblie
and might be so on the United Slates. The gentle-
man had questioited the power of Congre^ to con-
trol tbe disposition of the lots and bad ftiven it as
his opinion it emid not be done. Mr N. was of
opinion that the Uoiled States being alone (after
the payment of 16 or 80,000 dollars to the original
owners of the lots on which the public buildioga
are erecting) interested in the proceeds of tbe Mle,
CoQcress must have a control oVer tbe sales them-
selves. This WBS agreed to be the opinion of the'
Attorney General, who attended the committee.
Tbe gentleman from Pennsylvania hud said, if
tbiswas the case the bill was wrong, for it should
have required a conveyance of the lots to some
responsible officer ot the Oovemment to have made
Oorernment secnrc. If the liianagemeBt is alrea-
dy in the hands of an officer of CMvemmeot, and
the management of the property can be controlled
bv law, we have all tbe security which could be
obtained by the conveyaoee spoken of. If gentle-
men attended to the bill, they would find that this
property is in the hands of a responsi We officer of
the United States; for the trustees cannot maken
conveyance but by the cranent of the PRESrENT of
the United Slates, so that be, in effect, is himself
tbe trnstev, and they could not have better eectrri-
ty. Bat he would for a moment take tbe gentle-
man^s doctrine as true. What then ? The Pbb-
siDENT must be considered as a private person in
disposing of the lots. It was agreed that as soon '
asm<Miey was received it went to the PttEaiDENT,
in his public character, and he was answerable for
the application of it to uses prescribed by law. It
t sell the property for
* doc-
would follow, that he might abuse his power
the first tostance, he might sell the [
than it was worth, If the gentli
trine was ime, the United Slates woald have i.
tie upon the Phhidbut to produce a fair sale oT
the lots, bat what arises f^om his regard to repnta-
tion and hia regard to his private fortune, which
woald be answerable for his conduct He hoped
there was no danger of having any man at tbe
headof the Govemmenton whom these ties would
not be suffieient. But Mr N. did not consider these
ohservations a* neeenary, for he considered the
geDllaman's real opinion as nasonnd.
™"" ' ~entlemen themsi
.e prment gnorantee. The/
.dbyGoogle
«ai
HISTOBV OF C0NGIIS1S&
H. or R.]
Loan to Cto C'iJy a/ WaakuigiMk.
[Um
I, LTU'.
mj sufficient mooejr faax been girra fof eoatplei-
iag'lhe building.'', il it b»d been^mpetly expend-
ed- Jf ihe proparcji bad baen (q!laBd*(ed, wuU
thefauU or ibtue who gar* it f V/haa geoUe-
mea, tberefore, say that eaougb had been given,
if liieit were anv coniracl, sueb as had beea con-
jectured to esist, it provei it la bare beeafulBU-
ed. ll was iiaid they bad go claim upon the Uoiled
States, Bui did aol tbe United Suisb sa^, "this
is a proper :u(Ualian for GjrerDmaal V ll i( were
to go then; it was certainly bacause it was for the
geueral interest, and if Xbere ware no funttn, (hey
must Bad them. But they were not called upon
for inuaey. They were asked to guarantee a
Loan to prevent tbe waste of those Tandi wbioh
had been fnreished by States end prirate pflrsons.
He hoped no doubt would, tbeftfure, lemain on
the subject.
Mr. HaLnouaB AOMcurrad in opinion with the
Attorney General on ibis subject. He said tbe
money-lenders could not call upon (be United
States for their money, until the lot) shall have
been sold, and there retnains a delieiency, and
there is little chance of the PBGsiDENT'e telling
the property fur leu than it was worth. And
though ibey could not control the sale of tbe Iot!>,
it was tbe money-lenders Who ran the risk, and
not tbemi nor was there any occasion for (be
United States to take care of the nioaey-leiiden.
Ibey would take care of IheraselTeK. Tbe bill was'
now on safe giouad ; tbe sum of tbe guarantee
having been reduced from t30O,00O to $300,000.
He was under no apprehension (bat the United
Stales would ereo ba called upon far a single
■hilling- And if they eoald give facility to the
erecdon of tbe public buildings, ihey ought to du
it. Tbey ought not to (brow (Hw(ructions in the
way. He did nut considvr the Hoiwe as pledged
tor any thing more in passing tbe present bill than
the bill purported. Ue wished it now to pass, as
his'former objections to il were doae away.
Mr. Rdtbcrford hoped, siace tbe bill had been i
amended, it would pasa by a great majority ; for
Congress to throw cold water upon the proceed-
ing now, it would be unjustifiable. The minds of
the people were drawn towards the Federal City,
and property would advance in price ; but ifCon-
grea^ sboulddefeat the operationtof the Commis-
sioners, it would operate to the ditadrantafe of
the Union.
Mr. SwanwiCK said, if he thought with the
aentlemsD from Conneclicui, la«( up, that the
United States were not likely lo be called upon
for any part of tbe money wbich they were about
to guaranty, the measure would bare- reeeired his
approbation i but be did not view tbe snbject '
e light with that gentleman. Ue ihonKht
)uld hate to pay tbe whole sum, and that
300,000 dollars woald MM be the whole of wfaat
that Home would be called upon to provide, if the
bill Wore ibem was pamed. How could Ihey tay
at whatiium they sbouU stop? Was iHe bill en-
titled "an act for providing money for tiovbing
the public buiUiogs in the .Federal City 1" No. It
_; furg ,.
of tlw City of WMhugiai
« tmae pno-
ciple tbey Migbl goaraaty takMs for M itwi cilia
inthrUoion. Way a L'mu ibr tbe City <tf Wub-
JmMn-i* pNTiiculad Was tbereaay reatoa why
the dilf<;rMii cities in the Union should be tmxti
for. that eityl Was it maant that Ojvernoieni
should go ttamngh Wiih tbe boii[ieM,«nd aeeall
iWefior improvements, properly finished in this
new city T Nothing was mentioned in-tbe bill for
which tbismaney was wanted. loBtead of finish-
ing tbe public buildings, it might be used for pav-
ing, lighting, or otherwise improving tbe city. Mr.
S. objerved. that it was with ■Qjrerom ell aa with
individuals, tbe facility of borrowing money ire-
quenlly led to ruin. But il was old (ha lots wen
worth a grrat deal more than they were asked le
guHfUiily. He wanof a diflVreni opiaion, and be
was afraid genileman would find lhem*elres dis-
appoioted in that particolar. Speculation, be
tQoughl, bad been at t .e bighest pitch. No sooner
was it aonouDced that Qovernmpnt was lo go Rt
this new city at a certain period^ than tbe cry was
immedkiely raised that commerce would flow
into il from all quarters ; that it would become the
centre of all the property in the Union ; that Am-
bassadors would build greal seats (bere ; that it
would be every thing that faoey could picture as
delightAil. What was London, Pari!*, or all the
ciiiesot' lbs earth compared with this eiiyl What,
said he, hat been tbe coaseqveneef Wtiat might
have been expected and what wtll happen in all
similar cases, public opinion with respect to this
city will probably fallasrafiidly ai it rose. Bal,
said he, tots inihu city had been objects of bargain
and sale in Kunipe, Q^ntlemea go there and say,
" This it to be tlu greatest eitv on earth, ibe lota
are, it is true, somewbat high, mit iney will be ten
times higher." It was astonish ing, he taid, to se«
aod hear the eiH^^iations which had been cir-
culated with respect to this city. He himself bad
seen in a London paper, an account staling thai
(bere was already 7,000 hon^es buHt iherp. Per-
SODS in Europe, believing these representatioot,
bad given biiih prices for these lots, in the sane
way at tbey had been induced lo give high nrieet
sometimes for very iudifi'jreat laoda. Speculatioo
now, however, being in some degree flat, ilmuin be
raised by ihe nreseol hill. The public Oiusl be in-
formed that Government will take this city upon
their own shoulders, and il Will be asserted ibat
tbe United Slates will take up ihis city as (be
Czar Peter took up Petersburg. If any foreigner
were to embraoe this idea, would he not find him-
self probably miseraWy deceived, in Ihe result?
But, aappose the snm proposed ro be horrow«d
were to be employed in flntsbing (he public build-
ings intended -for Qovemmeot, how degrading
would it be lo so into Europe to borrow mtmey to
erect these buildings 1 If he had studied la find
out a plan of degrading the boaor of the country,
be cnuld not have bit vponone more humiliating.
What would be (liooghl at Amsterdam, when ihe
United Stales were borrowing money to erect
houses for (he dlff^teat Depnrimeata of their Oo-
vernment to meet in. If money wns wanted (m
thi^purfnae, wbyaot raise it by taSM ? The ease
wilh-whteh oaoney- Blgfal W bturowwl bmii a ten-
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S«3t
HISTQBY OF OOIUDKESB.
March, 17M.J
J>MM to the City cf WaakingUn.
fH.orR.
itatj l« alupHy all ezrrlioD, and the end of it
would bf, that ibo vhok of tbeir rvvvnoe waold
go lopif tbeinirrMl of tbeir debt* toforeigncoaD-
lrie>. 1i WIS ihe opinioo of most ihtnking men on
the ■DbieGi,(NDd th« Prbsi dint bad wiiely recom-
niPDilpd lbemeuurefai'foarMir,ccnireypira)ihaI
(heir Public Debl shoBld be «x(ia^aished with all
pomble iipeed. And wbat. be said, wai the bod-
ductoTthat House? Tbeynrthrv will pay erery
attention lo tbe sobjeot, but Mill incur fmh debt.
Tbe report of ibeCoinniitteeof Way* and Mennn
was before them, by which they nw how their
finanoen stood. He feared they should kood har«
Doihingbut billi lor Loeni before Ihem, fromflad-
iug it BO tuneh more easy to borrow than to rai»e
muoey by tuatioo. They were followin|t a prac-
lice wlkioh bad brought Great Britain to the brink
of tuin. lfthetot». said Mr. S., ever wontd beoi
value, it was now ; fur, ia matiurs of speeolation.
tbe more uncertainly there was, ibe greater room
there wonld be for eoniectiire and calculaiion.
Helhougrbi it very improbable the properly sliould
increase in vAlue. For when the OoverDinent shall
be removed, it may be found that fram the short-
nesa of the sesaioDS of Congrrss there, the advan-
lages which they would confer wonld not be rety
Kat, BDil conieqneQlly, that much of tlie Kpeco-
on which had bef n formed of the great pros'
perity of tbit city, bad been founded in error. He
would not be understood to say that the City of
Wa^ington might not hare a gradual increase
and consequi^nce tike that of any other city in the
Union, but not thai it would j^row as it were.spon-
laneoosly in the manner some gentlemen seemed
to expect it. For the reasons he had mentioned,
be ■bould rote ai^ini^ the pawing of the bitl;and
tboagb the hill sbonld be carried by a great ma-
jority, be should not regret the vote tfaough be
should be foand alone on tbe occasion.
Mr. HAtvNs said, the bill carried a refutation
of the argument used on its support in the face of
it, via : lint Ibe lots are worth more than the mo-
ney proaosed to be guarantied. If the money-
leaders belieTe this to he true, there would be no
need of a guarantee. This gnaraniee being asked
for, eoavineed bim that it was not believed that
the lots wonld bring the moo«r. He bad taken
some pains to find whether the price the land
would coosisand will be likely to repay tbe sum
prapowd to be borrowed, and ooold not diwover
anjr wcH-foonded tcbbods for the belief. Every
nntlcaMii mnsi ha aeasibU that if thef engaged
lor $800,000, they engaged tbe OorernmeDl for
Ibe wbcrie SQin. Bat what wa« meant when ii
was aid that there was some kind of obltgation
to go to this new city at the lime mentioaedl He
eontd read noknch contract. The buildings were
to be completad. When be was upon a commit-
tee «i another subject, he made inquiry whether,
if the buildings intended for Congress were not
com(rieied. they might noi be eceommodataJ in
mne other way; and. if his informniion was
rifht. before ibe year 1800. there would be parts
of the city Bnished in which they might be ne-
eoinmn<iaied;or. if nntin that city, in Georgetown,
which ilea near it? Hesbonld vote BgainsLike bill.
Mr. MuBBAT would remark, that the very point
in dispute had been taken ftn- granted. It batf
been aid, tbe call for a goaranded loan indicated
in itself a consciousness that the lots were not
worth the sum to be borrowed upon their credit.
This he would endicitly deny. On the contrary,
[here is a full and well-gronnded conviction that
the lists npoD which the <rredit is ashed would at
Ibis moment )«11 for more than the sum in view ;
and ibat. therelbre, as mere money-lenders, the
loan would be a safe barnin. It was likewise
clear, almost to demonstration, that if the imme-
diate pressure formoney were removed, that must
otherwise force the lot» into ihe market, the ope-
ration of the loan: when projierly laid out in the
improvement of the city, will add valne to the
loia pledged, and thus incrrase Ihe resources of
tbe borrower in such a manner as that he not
only will be enabled td discharge the sum borrow-
ed, but, also have a great and valuable residuary
as a fund, from which the Ciiy of Washington,
without inlemal taxes, may be embellished. As
ibe Uoiied Stales will have exclusive jurisdiction
within that city, it was deeply their concern to
husband iheir resources sn an to mnki' them ac-
compli^-b their present ends and their future ob-
jects. Expose all the lots to sale at present, and,
tboueh you will get the sum which may be im-
mediately necessary, you strip the estate entirely
of all resoorces in Aiiure but those of taxation.
If the Government feels any interest in their own
afTxir?, for the affairs of that ctly as a peculiar
scene of thHr jurisdiction, are more or less their
own, they will adopt, towards that city and ils re-
sources. ibo^'C maxims which, in private, and, in-
deed, public cliaracter.consiitute a sound economy.
He had never aniicipatpd the support of the
gentleman from this ciiy. [Mr. BtVANWtcK.] but
he confessed he did not expect »o warm an oppo-
sition to this bill from thai sceotleman. He has
taken grest painx to discredit the value of proper-
ty in the city, and has jninled the city itself as an
airy fiction of speculation, a mere sort of caslle-
bnilditrg dream, such as man oversets when he
rises out of bed from the reveries of the morning.
It is true, he observed, that the scheme is a specu-
lation—the whole of life and its concerns, per-
haps, are no more; but it is specula tiou riiing
from a concurrence of events and toca'! circnm-
stBDoes more lavorabie to a profitable issue, tbao
any other that had of laie presented itself to men
of genius and enterprise. It was founded on no-
thing airy but to the mind that conld think lightlr
of the sanctity of public faith ; nolfainr gruuna-
lesB, unless to those whose interests Ted them
from a (air calculation of those immense advan-
mges that unite themselves in the centre of the
Union, on one of the noblest navigable rivers in
Ihe world. It was a speculation liottomed for the
seeifrliy of its profits in tbe faith of the Union.
It is impossible that (he gentleman, who is really
so excellent n judge of good speculation, of com-
merce, and of city property, and whose property
so adorns this chy, and so iarccly contributes to
it* elegant amusements — for ihatcircun and that
kotel in view belong to the genllenian — shculd
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835
mSTOBT OF GONQRESa
836
Et.J
Imm t» tlu CUy q^ WoMhingUm.
[HaBch, 1796.
leriouslf believe that itte Federal City i* an tiry
■peculation. It muii have been in tne roaineni
w poetical iadulgeoee, and been detetmiDcd in
the cast of cbaracler he meant to asMime in the
debate, to give lu " T'oiber iide of the Gutter,"
wbicb he uaderaiood was an ezoelleDi draEoaiic
now in the Federal City. He observed, that were
thequesiiOQ at this m9meni to be, in what pari
of the Union shall the permanent 9eit of Gov-
etOTDenC bel he believed that it would be placed
where it ia contemplated, nl the Fedenl Ciiy. Ii
great views pointed out the banksof the Poto-
mac, in M^rlaiid, toJ>e the propef place under
nuch a question, would it not be extremely natu--
lal for the Government, not perhap* to give, but
to lend money, in aid of private enterprise, for
the very rational purpose of liring in houses, '
pr.
holding their aewiona, like Druids,
in the opeu air or. under trees? If houses
deemed necesiaryj.ir a thousand aocommodations
were essential to the settling of the Quvernmenl
there, what vould be the duty of Government!
Certainly to promote, not to discourage the
growth of a city, and to lend money to attain
that end.
Mr. Page said, be would vote for the bill, be-
cause, if it were not passed, it would give the
public an idea that they did not mean to go there
at the time appointed. He was no friend to ibe
having a district of ten miles square, nor to the
magniSccnce displayed in the Pbebident'ii Louse.
HeMlieved they need uot be under any appre-
hensions of loss from the present guarantee; but,
if the bill was rejected, the palace and other pub-
lie buildingsereciingtbere would come to nothing.
Mr. SwiLNWicK rose, and remarked upon what
had fallen from eeotlemen in reply to nis obsef'
vations. When ne mentioned the removal of the
Government, he did not mean to make any allu-
sion to Phiiadelphia, or to the value of property
there. He said, the gentleman's opinions were as
erroneous with respect to the present as to the
future. They seemed to ascribe the prosperity of
Philadelphia to the residence of Congress there ;
whereas, if they would look around, them, they
would see more rapid advances in some other
places which had not bad the same advantage. A
gradual rise had, for some lime, been taking place
mail parts of America, owing to a great influx
of money and increase of commerre. Havmg
this opinion with respect to Philadelphia, he felt
perfectly indifferent about the removal of the
Government— it would not take one cubit from
her stature, nor from the value of the land to
which the gentleman from Maryland had alluded
on '■ T'other side of the Gutter.'*
It was said, thnt he objected to the title of the
bill only. The bill, be said, contemplated a va-
riety ol objects, consequently (he money proposed
to be borrowed might he applied to any of them,
as he did not find it was confined to the public
buildings only. What was the original act for
fixing the future Seat of Government, of which
theylwd said so much and quoted ao little 1 [He
read the elatiKe which says the FRGBinBirr shall
be authorized to receive giSitis of land nnd mo-
ney.] The present bill was much at Tsriaace
with the original act, for it makes the United
States become speculators, and guaranty ■ large
sum in a foreign country at six per cent, on tne
credit of the Iota. He could not agree t
foreign country at six perc
credit of the Iota. He could not agree to tbis
partnership of speculation, which the Govern-
about to enter into, because he should
not hioLielf choose to risk his private property ia
such an adventure, and thoqghi it a good rule not
to place the pi^lie on f^ound he should not like
himself. But, it was said, good faith requirrd that
thev should guaranty Ihisloan, because they had
sain Government should go there at a certnin p^
riod. But this was only said conditionally, if
E toper bnildingi were prepared for their receptiMi.
: was not expected they should, at all events, go
there aad sit under the canopy of Heaven.
The objections which he had made tu the bor-
rowing Of money, did not seem to have the same
weight with Dtber gentlemen which they had
with him. He said there would be fe loan to be
negotiated for the use of Government, and he
was apprehensive the one might interfere with the
other. This step was only the commencement of
the business. He remembered when £80,000
were granted for building; the house of the Paa-
BioBHT,in Philadelphia, it was thought a very large
sum, but niBrly twice thai snm had been asked
for since, and the house was not yet finished. So
it would probably be la this ease. They were
applied to at brat for (500.000, hut now the sum
was reduced to (300.000. He expected thu would
not be ihe last call. He was gainst the principle
of the bill. He would not make any further ob-
servations on the subject, nor woold he have risen
again, had it not bave been to notice some rather
personal remarks which had been made on the
sentiments he bad before expremed.
Mr. SiTORBAVES said, it was to be expected that
the members from Pennsylvania wonld, in giving
opposition to this bill, bave to meet the reflections
which they bad heard. He was, for his own part,
not surprised at theuL nor, indeed, was be dis-
pleased. He would Hjemil to them, and to much
when eooveved with m mnob plnsaotry
as bad been UHed oy hia friend from Maryland,
[Mr. MuBRiT.} But ihi.' members frooi Pen
ylvania would ill deserve the cjufidene* reposed
in them by their constituent* if they should suffer
such considerations to mingle with the disebarge
of their public duty, or if they could be prevent-
ed from declaring their opinions by that grratest
of all weaknes-f, the apprehension that improper
motives might beailribuied m them. He could
not help considering thai gentlemen irreatly over-
rated the advantages derived to ihecity ol' Phila-
delphia from Congress sitting in it. He had read
that wliea one of the Kings of BngUnd, in a fit
of disgust, threatened the citisensof London to
remove his Court and Parliament to Oxford, they
ho|>ed '' his Majesty would not (pke the Thame*
with him." And, solon^as ihey left the Delaware
behind ibem the ciiy of Pliiladelphia would, he
imagined, feel no material loss from the removal of
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HISTC«T OF CONUfiSaS.
H«ICH, 1T96.J
Loan, to the Oily of WathMgion.
[H. OF H.
CoDgren, except, intleed, th« ogrMable society or
its members during IbeirHuIoD. But he consider-
ed this bumorout kind of diKourae oa leriou* (ob-
jects ■• calculated to keep out of view more ira-
porlBot erasideratioDS. He had tCated that the
bill was an illusion ; that the Uaited States a»-
■umed aad held out to the public and lo mooey-
leodera a right lo pledge property, which, he ven-
tured to say, they did not poweiiS. He had said
this though the Attorney General and three pro-
fessioDal gentlemen iu that House maintainea an
opposite opLDioo ; fur all his respect for their sen-
timents could not induce him toabaodon hisown in
that which he had expressed. He had not been
sJDgular, and he (rusted he had shown satistsciory
grounds on which he supported it. But, if the
opinion of the AttoTney General was just. Iind
ine land was at the disposal n( the United States,
he contended that would be a decisive renson
why the bill should not pass, because it did not
furnish for the United States the best indemnity
that, fouformably to that opinion, the case issuf^
eeptible of.
It had bMn agreed, before the recommitlal. that
if greater security than the bill offi^rs conul be
given them, it ought to be given. If the opinion
conteoded for is correct, the land can, and, if it
can, it otighl to be placed in the haitd* of a re-
sponsible, pahlic officer: whereas, at present it
was in the hands of private trustees, persons no
way amenable lo the United States, bat bf pro-
CCHB in the Courts, in the common forms. He
was sure the PasBiDErr was not publicly respon-
sible until the money came into his hands. When
granli of money were paid into bis hands he was
responsible for them.
It has been said the trustees eoold not toueh
the money. From whence was this opinion col-
lected ? The trustees alone can convey lo pur-
chasers. The money, by the deed, is espressty
■ppropriated, first, lo pay the original price of the
land, and must pass through the hands of the
trustees before the midae can be paid over to
the Pbesidoit for public purposes. He had raid
the present hill waaliable to another objection,
viz: aaboldingout afalse view to money-lenders,
and he had been astonished lo bear from a Eenile-
mas from Coaneciicni [Mr. HillhodbeJ that
money-tenders would take care of themselves,
■nd that Oovemmentneed not makeitwlf aoea^y
on thai head. He was sure that such a sentiment
did not a^ree with that delicate and lender r^fard
which that gmlteman always appeared to profen
for the purity of puMic credit.
Mr. StTGREAVEa said, he was willing thai Qov-
emment should remove to the new city at pro
posed, and would lav no nbsiraetioc in the way
of that removal. There was, however, an essen-
tial difi'.'renre between interposing obitlruetioDs
and refuKtog aid, which we were not bound to
grant. They ought lo say, "We are bound to
go if you are rrady lo reeeivp os, hut we will
not bfcome city builder*." This hilt, he faid.
was prediraled on a pomibility thai wc should
one Jay bsvo to pay the moneys ^*" which it
pledged the UtMledSMtesaagaaraatee. HesboaU
eontiBue to oppose it. . .
Mr. Bheht said, the present bill seemed to be
peeuliarly obnoxious to the gentleman froio Penn-
sylvania last up, because it purported to guaran-
ty a loan for the erectbn al public buildings in
ine Federal City. He said, he was by no mean*
tenacious about the title, so thaf the ooject of the
bill was obtained. He said, the apprehensions of
fined, and if they had noticed the obierTatioiis
which had fallen from bis colleague, they must
have seen that they were unfonnded. Wbea they
recollected what the lots had sold for. the number
reqaaining on hand unsold, and the price they will
oiosi proDobly command, when it is known that
Congress has agreed to guaranty the proposed
loan, it must be one of the most idle apprehend
sions to tuppose that this property will not be a:
Hufficient guarantee for the amount of the loan-
Gentlemen bad said that if, when the original act
passed, it had been supposed that apjdication
would have been made to Government to aid the
erection of the public buildings, it would never
have gone into eflVct. He knew not what might
have been the opinion at that time. He formed
his ideas from the act of Congress itself. There
be found if there were certain caoeessions made
by any State for the use of the Qeueral Qovem-
roent, Congress stipulated that the Seat of Gor-
emment should be renioved. In consequence of
this declaration, two States and several individu-
als of the States had made considerable sacrifices.
Will gentlemen, then, say ibat, after these circum-
stances had taken place, and these offers bad been
solemnly accepted, that the faith of the Uaited
States was not pledged? If so, they view the
matrcf in a far aiflerent light from him. Objeo-
tioits had been made with reipect to the seGoriiy
of the United Slates with respect to ihe ' '
It would be sufficient to aay that these
were fuUv coiuidered by the sel
and ihev nad taken the opinion of the Atlnrney
General, which wasclear and satisfactory. Those
who be«rd the deed read would recoUeet that the
property wa« lo be conveyed to trustees, and sold,
from time lo time, uoder the direction of the Paft-
BtOBrtT, the money to be appropriated by bim for
the erection of auitable public buildings for the
use of Government. But, according to the gea-
ileman from Pettosylvania, the public had oo se-
curity but the money might be diverted by the
trustees to other purposes. This opinion was so
far frcHn just, the trustees could never have
touched the money, as ihe property is to he sold
under the direction of the PaEBioENT or ths
UNirED SraTBB. He should be glad to know,,
therefore, what possible risk there cunld be in the-
dispoKal of the properly? The purchaser will
>ee that the trustees are the sole ageniSj and that
the money in to be undertbe direction of the Paa-
aiDBHT. Can it, then, be supposed that any pur-
chaser will pay his mrxiey other than agreeably
to the direction of ihe Psuideht?
With respect lo eogageraentj on the part of tha
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HISTORT OF COUXGBSSB.
840
H.orR.]
i:,ou. r* Me CWy of WoMkimgtm.
tArB>^ 1796.
pvUte. Iihwl be«Q M^gMied that riuSeient mo-
oey hs'l been paid ioio the hands of the PsEai-
BBHT 10 Gnisb tbe pabtic buildiugx. The fact
might be so. He did not mean to drtertuiBe or
tb« miiBfipli cation of raosvy. Bul Admitting tbi
baildings were on too eitcnitive a xcale, and tbi
money ttai been squnndered, against, whom doe!
Ihis accDi.itian reIort7 Not Bgaioal those wh(
gave it, bnt on that House, who had not attended
to the expenditure of ir. The fault rested wttb
llMm, but ihrf were not, oa tikat account, dis-
■ulved froit their engagement. The gentleman
from Connrciirnt md he entertained no wixfa '
obstruct the removal of Government, bul lie n
unwilling to grant tbe proposed l.«n. If he ob-
jects to the buildings being on too large a scale,
Dot is still willing tu transfer the Government, he
ahonid have broi^i forward hi* objections in an
earlier iiase of the businesi, and suggested a dil-
ferent kind of plan fi>r the building:!. But. as he
hod KUggested tiosucb plan, the gentleman's mak-
JD; an tibjectioD to the mode now,atineara likeao
attack upon the bill itiwlf. And, it he were ol
opioiun that il waa desirable to remove the Gav-
it at tbe time appointed, it was essentially
y to guaranty ibe loan, as the building
were now at a stand lor the want of the ntieestary
aid, or th«y most legislate under the canopy ol
Heaven. He Irosteii, therefore, tbe gentleman
woald see th« propriety of voting tor the present
bill.
Mr. Grabs aaid, he should have expected oh-
j«Ction!i from any part of the Union raoner than
Iron). Pennsylvania. One of ibe members from
that Biate[iVlr. SiTsasAVBa] had told them that
there was no obligation ou Cjngress from the
original act — at leant he knew not of any tiucb.
But be had forgotten that tbey were bound to sit
ID PbiUdelpfaia ten years ; and, if they might
jud^ from tha gentleman's language on this oc-
casion, he thought they might conclude be wished
to keep them longer. HIk colleague [M>. Swan-
wibK] traveled no furiber than the title of the
hill, and Ibund a bill authorizing a Loan fur the
City of Waihington. But, if he had read the
first clause of the hill, he would bave found that
the mooe)^ was wanted to complete the public
buildings in ibat city. The same gentleman
went on to say, tfaat it was degrading to America
to borrow money in a foreign country to erect
tfaeirpublio buildiogt, and that, before he should
do thu, he would come forward and lay taxes up-
oa his constituents. If that sentleiaan was will-
iag to do this, he was not. He ihousht it would
be a wanton abuse of their power to by a tax ua-
necexsarily. He had no doubt but the lots would
sell fur double the sum proposed to be borrowed.
Il had also he^n said that a guarantee amounted
to a loan. No Kuarautee could be made without
such words. The same gentleman proceeded,
and said, if the lota were worth the money why
call upon Qjvernment tor a guarantee, why not
borrow money upon Ihe lott Ihemselvts? Thai
gfotleman, said Mr. C, might borrow his tbou-
unds or tens of ibousaods at home, where his
properly ia knowo, btii if b« were in a foreign
country, aud nokoown, be wottld have need of a
guarantee if he wanted to borrow. He trusted
tde bill would poes by a largv tnajority. which
would serve to show to the public that they did
not mean to impede bnt to cherbb the growth a!
Ibis infant city.
Th« sense of the Houm was then taken by
yens and nays, and the bill passed, 73 agninsi 21,
by the fullowing vote:
Yiis. — Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Lemnd
Benton, Thomas Blount, Benjamin Bonrne, Theophi-
In* Bnidbotj, Kicbsid Brent, Denpuy Barges, Sa-
muel J. Csbelt, Gabriel Christie, Thomas CIsiIhonie,
John Clopton, Isaac Ccdrs, William Cooper, Jeremiah
Crabb, Henry DeartiMn, Qeorge Dent, Mmnd Earia,
William Findlay, Dwig;ht FiMler, Jeiaa Franklin, AU
bert GaUatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, William B. Gile^ Junes
Oiilespie, Nichidas Gilman, Henry Ulen, Benjamin
Goodhue, Christo^iw Greennp, William ' B. Grorf^
Wada Hampton, Ueorge Hancock, Garter B. Uarrnon,
Robert Goodloe Harper, Jc^n Hatbom, John Heath,
Jsm^ HillbouHt, Willlun Hindmui, Junes KoUsnd,
George Jackson, Matthew Locke, Ssmuel Ljnian. Na-
thaniel HBrnn, James Madison, Prand* Malbone, John
Mitlcdges Andrew Moore, WilUam Vans Marray, Aa-
Ihon; New, John Nichdas, Aleiandw D. Oir, John
Page, Joaiidt Parker, John Patton, Frauds Preston,
Rohert Ratbeilbrd, Theodiwe Sedgwick, John 8. 8bei^
bume. Jersmiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Israel Smith,
Isaac Smith, Hsmuel Smith, WiUiun Smith, Thomas
Hprigg, George Thatcher, Urish Tracy, John E:. Van
Allen, Abraham V enable, Pcleg Wadnrotth, Joba
Williams, and Richard Winn.
Num.— Theodonis Bailey, Nathan Bryan, Joahna
Coit, Abiel Foster, Cbsuncey Goodrich, Andrew Giegg,
Roger Griswold. Jonathan N. Havens, Asion Kitchell,
Samuel M acta;. Frederick A. Muhlenbrrg, John Reed,
Juhn Richards, Samuel Sitgreavcs, John Swanwidt,
Zephsniah Swift, Absalom Tatom, Richard Thomaa,
Mark Tbompwm, Philip Van Cortlandi, and Joseph B.
Vamnm.
Mr. Tbacv, ffom the Committee of Ctaim'i
ted a bill to provide fo[
of certain othcerswho
received in [he service of the United States since
the 4th 61 March, I7S9 ; which was received and
read the Srsi and second times, and ordered to be
engrossed, and read the third time to-D)orrow.
DDTIE8 ON DISTILLED 8HBITS.
Air. Maooh said, owing to a failure of their
crops, a number of his coustitueuts had dittilled
far less than their usual quaaiity itf spirit)^ and be
therefore wished they might be petiuii(ed (o pay
their duties in proportion to the quantity made,
instead of being charged acaordiug to tbe capacity
of their stills. Hs laid a resolution on the table
to that effect.
THE BRITISH TREAT?.
The Meioage from the PaBsiDEiiT read yesier-
day in answer to the call for papers, was referred
to the Committee of the Whole on Wedoesday
FBioay, April 1.
A bill extending the provinlons oft) bill for tho
relief of widowJ and orphans of officers who huvt!
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HISTORY OF COlirGfiESa
84a
A»l^ 17M.J
Adektional BewM/e.
[U,orR.
iitd since Horeh 4, 1789, wrs read a third time
and pawed.
A memoria] from ttw Wa^iogton Oompany of
Maryland, praf tog for a portion of ttie Western
lands, on certain conditions, and against ■ danse
in tbe bill before the House reapectins the recsir-
ing of eertificBles in part of sayment hi the land,
was read aod referred to the Committee of the
Whole on the bill for opening offices for the sale
of land in tlie Northwestern Territory.
Sevetal petitions wen pretented from the West-
cm connt^, ptsying the Bngliih and Spaoiah
Treaties to be canied into effect.
ADDITIONAL REVENUE.
The Honae then weot-jnto a Committee pf ihe
Whole on the report of the Commiltee of Ways
and Means, Ota ibestate of the reoeiptsnod expend-
iturci of the United States. The first resolu-
tion, couiemplating a calculation for a direct tax,
keing under coosiaeralion —
Mr. JeitBMiAB Smttb said, he BhouU be clad
be informed of the reasons which induced thia i
solution. Me doubted not the eoottnitiee had
nonnds fur bringing ti forward ; but he must own
he did not feel himself prepared to agree to a sys-
tem of direct taxation ; his prejudices were in fa-
Tor of indirect taxes. He did not like direct tax-
ation ; fa« thought it eovld only'be justified by te-
cesnity. He should be glad, however, for informs'
tioo on the sflbject. ■
Mr. W. Smith, the dtairoaan of Ihe Ck>mmitiee
of Ways and Means, obaetved, that if gentlemen
examined ike statecaenl of the Committee of
Ways and Means, they wotitd sec the aeeassity of
the meanre proposed. When gentlemen object-
ed to plans brought forward 1^ Committees of
Pionnce, it would be well if they would sobstttnte
something in their place ; if not, they must le«va
tbeOorcTDmentinanecaharTBasadsituatiu). This
sabjeet had occnpied much of the time of the C««i'
Bittee of Ways and Means, whioh il- was kaown-
wns compoaed of m member from each State in
the Union. The committee bad attentively ex-
amined the state of the revenues aadexpeadilures,
an4 found considerable sums doe to the Bank of
selntioD s* reported. Tbey thought a part of the
neeeasory rereDue might be raised &sai subjecla
of indirect taxation, but by no means to an ade-
quate amount. The subjeet of direct taxation b»-
in^ a aew one, they did not think it expedient at
tbts lime to make a particular report on tlie suh-
iect, but bsrely to provide that some sysleni ahonld
be formed for the neit vear, by consuUiDg the
laws and practicea of the difTerent States, so as to
make the system tnost palataUe to each.
The committee had not determined that they
would ottiraately support a (ax of this kind, but
only to acquire all the inforinBtion they could upon
the subject. If, when thisHpert from the Becre-
rary of the Treasucr shall have been made, the
House should not (liiak the plan a desirable or
practicable one, it may be i«jeeted. The House
will aae that some revenue musi be bad. Taxes
cnble inoteuse of expense f«on
which hceomes payaUe after the year IfiOO. It
was sJMolatelr n«ccsaary, therefore, to ororide
some Dwaas of meciing these exigencies, beniue
ikey corU not now, as had been customary here-
tofore, pay Ihe instalments as tbey became due,
by new loans in forei^ countries. Tkev must
onwpay tfaedebtbyr^isinga revenue for the pur-
pose, or by new loans in this country. It wassop-
posed, from the present demand for money in this
coDDiry, it would noi be possible to borrow mo-
ney on advantageous terms ; they had, therefore,
no other resource than taxation. The committee
having fixed thia necessity as a basis, they were
aest led lo inquire into the best meaas of eSectiog
the business. Direct or indirect taxation were to
be necessarily resorted to. In invesiicating the
first, so many difficulties presented taeoiselves,
Ikey were obliged to confine thamastves to tha re-
4lh Cob.— Sa
Some gentle-
men had supposed that indirect taxes would be
less embarrassing and more agreeable to the peo-
pk-of thia country ; but if, upon the best iofonnn-
tion which could be got, it should be found una-
voidable to resort to a system of direct taxation,
they muat individually surreoder their preitidieeB
B^inst that system. In making these observa-
tions, be did not feel himself in the least commit-
ted to support a plan of direct taxation ; he con-
fessed he would much rather go into indirect tax-
ation; but it was tbe sense of the commiitee that
thia method should be Cried. A priocipal motive
which in flt^enoed them to make this trial was this:
Almost the whole of the present revenue depend*
upon commerce — an b commerce liable to be de-
ranged by wars in Europe, or at the will of any
of the great naTnlEoropeaaPow^TH; tbey therefara
were of tbe opinion that it would be a prudent ■
measure to have a ayalean of dire^ taxation or-
ganized, which might beresorledtooicnsesof ne-
cenity. And although he shoaM be against «d-
leving upon a system '^-direct taxation at preoeai,
yet he WB£ in faror of a plan being systemaUxed,
which might supply.any deficiency which might
arise in the revenue from the causes above slated.
He hoped no embarrassment wonld be thrown ia
the way of thissulqect in the present stage of it,
by any prejudices which ^idMmen might have
■gainst ihis system of taxation, as, hereafter, when
the information required was laid before Ibeoi,
they conld then exercise their judgments -mor*
completely upon the subjects ; they would, at anj
nte, be in possession of a ^n ef raising a ooaii^
eraUe revenae. which might be resorted to, at
least in caseo ot necessity. For these reasons, he
hoped [he motion would be asreed to.
tr. DivToN (tbe Speaker) said he should en-
ipon a system of direct taxation with great
caution, ll was untrodden ground, and they ought
it well before they entered upon it,
fiut be thought the present resolution a proper
introduce ihem to a view of the sub-
ject which tbey might act upon or not, as thev
might hereafter determine. The forming of suen
a system would also have this good efiect; it
waul4 have a teadeftcy to make individual States
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
U.OPR.]
AdditioneU Rtmamt.
[AT■I^17U6.
imprOTe thsir present imperfect system of (axa-
' tion — (br he coald not help coosideriiig them im-
perfecl as to the differeace kD'ralae betwixt iui'
proved and Dnimprored land, sod betiriit differ-
I «D[ kiods of improved l&nd in the s&rae State ; u,
. when the different States saw the Oeneral Qor-
ernmeDl digesting a plan of taxation, they would
I Datuiall)' compare their own systems with the
one proposed, and improve them where they
I thought ibem deficienL He had no objection,
I therefore, to agreeing to the reaolurion. He had
I an objection to the sum mentioned ; he wished it
I might be less. He felt disinelined at present to a
I system of direct taxation ; but if it was even ttially
adopted, be trosted care woitld be taken to have
it duly enforced,
Mr. WtLLiAHs should not abject to the reBolo-
tion before the House, though he was psrsaaded
the formation of the plan proposed would be at-
tended with great difficulties. In the State which
tw represented, a plan for direct taxation had been
attempted for some rears, and they could not
agree on the mode. He should, nerNtheless, wish
to see such a plan brought forward by the Secre-
tary of the Treasury ; though he was «f opinion
it ought never to be resorted to bnt in time of war
or in cases of extreme necessity. It was a positive
kiuj of taxation, and such as could not be avoid-
ed. A farmer mnv be supposed to be always pre-
Cred to pay his snare ot taxes ; yet, in eases of
1 crops, they find farmers amongst the poorest
of their ' citizens. This being the case, it would
be almost impassible to raise a direct tax from
them ; bnt if (ue lax be indirect, it will be optional
with them whether they pay it or not, in timeiof
•oarcily ; aud, when their crops retum, they will
puichase a latger quantity, and by that means pay
ft double tax. If taxes were paid on goods im-
Eirted, the industrious man pain but few of (hem.
ut should he be asked how they were to raise
the revenue 1 Suppose he were to pay ten sfail-
Unsafor a yard of cloth, and out of that sum tw
■hiUings went for duty, two for profit, and six i
the foreign merchant, so that out of £300,000 n
oeived for an article of that kind, £tiiO,000 woul,
go to the public stock of a foreign country 1 Were this
■afed, it would enable them R> raise taxes much
easier in other wiivs. Hence, indirect taxes ere
paid at the option of the eonsnmer. and those taxes
operate as a spur to industry, as well as i
ragemeat to tneit own manufactories. But sup-
pose direct taxes ol the Governments of individu-
al Slates? The Oeneral Govemmeai, be said,
bad guarantied 10 each iudividual State a resab-
liean form of Qorernment ; bnt he Ihonght direct
taxes would not tend to secure them in iL When-
ever the Govemmeois of individual States had a
rarplus of money in hand, it ought to be employ-
ed m theeccouragement of manufactures, in i
ing roads and ioland naviiration, so as to be
Ued to bring with all possible facility the produce
of the country to inariet, so as to undersell every
other market This being the case, he should be
agaust direct taxes, except in cases of emergency.
Besides, indirect taxes generally went to luxuries,
and left people at hbenr to pnrchase them or not.
He thought, if a little mor« was laid upon the lux-
uries of life, it would please the people better
than direct taxes. He trusted, before the end of
■heir session, they should considerably lessen the
public expenditure. There had been very large
sums expended for the last two years. If they
discontinued their Naval Armament, sold mate-
rials collected, and reduced their Army Eistabliib-
meut to one-half to what it had been calculated on
by the Secretary of the Treasury, it would make
a reduction in ike public expenditure of near two
millions of dollars. Hence no necessi^ for direct
taxes ; for if they continued at peace, ne believed
their present revenue would meet every necessity
of Oovernment. He should not observe farther
at present, bat would speak to the other resolu-
tions when they were before the Committee.
Mr. HiLLHOuan said, the sum mentioned in the
resolution had been objected to. He argued that
it did not matter what the sum was, as it was
merely mentioned in order to furnish a rule for
the Secretary of the Treasury to fonnd his c^kn-
latioD upon. But he would move that the sum
should be left blank, which would leave the Se-
ctetary of the Treasury mote at liberty. For
I not his idea, though they were directing
itfuity to be made, that they were about to
lay a direct' tax.
Mr. N1CBOL1.S hoped the amendment would not
be pressed, liwasnot of muohcoasequcncewhat
was the sum proposed, but it would be better that
some specific sum should be named ; because, in
proportioning a direct tax, the Secretary of the
Treasury must assume some sum. If he directed
to lay a tax for two millions, it would he easy to
reduce it at once ; bat ifooly laid for five hundred
thousand dollars, he might omit a number of things
which he would introduce in calculating for two
millions.
Mr. BoDHMB hoped the amendment would be
agreed to. The resolution called upon the Secre-
tary of the Treasury to make out a plan by which
a direct tax might be laid. He koew (here was
no tax so disagrsertle to the people as direct (ax-
es. He thcHiglit it would be improper, therefore,
to hold out any idea of such a tax being laid, ex-
cept m a cBseof absolnte necessity. He agreed to
this proposition in the commit tee, beoause the pre-
sent revenues, depeikding almost entirely upon
commerce, were very precarious, and liable la be
interrupted by war, and it wa» necessary they
shoatd Wve some reaoorce to which they might
resort in case of any interruption being nat to
their commerce. With respect to their ordinary
coarse of taxation, he trusted they should not have
recourse to a system so disagreeable as that of di-
rect taxation. It would be necessary they should
hare an increase of revenue in (be year ISOl ; hut
be (rusted the prosperity of (heir comme^e would
be such as (o enable them to meet the public ex-
igencies at that period. They had found that
their revenue had doubled its amount aiuce it was
first laid, and, from (be growing situation of their
commerce, they might reasonably expect a cod-
linoance of its increase. The gentleman from
New York had saggeated that some additiaital
;dbvG00gle
HI8TOBT OF . CONGBKSS.
April, 1796.]
Additional Revenue.
[H.OPR.
lax might be laid on articles of luxury ; but he
was of opinion any Bddi[ioaal tax. on commerce
would roiber operalc against the revenue than in
fovorofiL
These observations, Mr. fi. said, did not apply
immediately to the question before the Commit-
tee, which WHS merely to sirike out certain words,
so as to leave the. sum blanb- He thought it was
Dot necefisary lo alarm the people with an idea
thai a direct tax of two millions of dollars was
about to be laid ; he did not thmk so great a sum
would be wanted, and very probably no aecessily
would exist of resorting- to a direct tax at all. It
would be necessary for the Secretary of the Trea-
■urv to fix upon some sum when he proceeds to
make his calculation, and wheo two millions
were mentioned, it was merely as a kind of text
for him to estimate from. He did not see whv
the apportionment misht not be made on one mil-
lion as well as two. It was said a calculation for
two roillioDs might include articles which a less
sum would not embrace ; but, he said, that, in his
opinion, the plan reported by the Secretary of the
Treasury would not point out all the particular
objects of direct taxation to which it might be
thought necessary to resort. He was in favor of
adopting a plan which should be congenial to
(he different Stales, if a direct tax was resorted to
stall.
This subject of direct taxation was a subject of
considerable discussion in the commiilee. It was
pretty gfneril'y opposed, and was a prevailing
opinion in the committee that indirect taxation
should be exhausted before they had recourse to
direct taxation. A sub-committee was accord-
ingly appointed, wfio reported a variety of objects
as proper of indirect taxation, but when they were
proposed lo the committee they met with much
opposition; a sub-commiitee was also appointed
to report on the subject of direct taxes. Tney re-
ported, generally, that the thing was practicable.
The committee did not report a system in writing;
mode of assessing and collecting direct tax^s iu
the different Stales. On inquiry, it appeared that
some Slates had not for ^ considerabfe time been
in the practicB of laying direct taxes, and that in
some there was no existing raluatioa of taxable
property. This would cause considerable diffictU-
ties in the way of any plan that can be thought
of, in the apportionment among different districts
and individuals in States where there was no va-
luation. The committee, on thewhole, were of
opinion that all which could be done with propri-
ety at the present was contained in the resolution
before the Committee, calling on the Secretary of
the Treasury to report a system of direct taxation,
to be adopted when it shall hi found indiapensa-
bly necessary. For his own pan, he doubted the
Eraciicabiliiy of the plan ; but be believed they
ad Gxed upon the best method of discovering
whether it could be carried into effect or not, by
recommending the present resolution. He there-
fore hoped it would be agreed to.
Mr. S. Shith did not think it material whether
the amendment look place or not. The gentle-
man from Rhode Island seemed to be alarmed at
the sum. He had made a calculation to know how
much the Slate which he represents would be
liable to pay upon the scale in the report, and
found it would be no more than 40,000 dollars.
He contemplated ihat greater difhculties would
attend the forming a proper i^yslem for a scheme
of direct taxation; but he thought ibis time of
peace and plenty would be the proper time to
look at the subject, so that Congress might be
prepared to act in esse of emsrgency. It was of
.no consequence upon what sum the calculation
It would be remembered Mr. S. said, that two
years ago, when the British seized the property
of their merchants on the ocean, gentlemen had
turned their minds to the public revenue; they
were perhaps deterred from resenting the insulta
which had oeen offered lo them; they went into
calculation, and found it would not be prudent to
risk too much. He believed the proposed inquiry
was necessary, and as ihe sum seemed to be ob-
jected to, hehad.no otgection to adopt the amend-
ment. A gentleman from New York had spoken
of the propriety of laying an additional tax upon
imported luxuries. He would remind gentlemen
that the dnties upon commerce were already
high; ihat if they were made higher, it would
become an object to evade the payment. Dutiei
might be stretched too far ; for, when ' duties be-
came excessive, men would calculate the risk,
and if they could escape once in three or fbur
times, it might be worth the risk. He referred
to the enoriuoua duties which had been paid on
tobacco in England, and showed that more rer-
enue was collected on the reduced duty. The
merchants of the United States were disposed to
pay their duties fairly, though it was ineonve-
nient to them, as ihey were obliged to bring for-
ward their first and best payments to pay their
duties. He delivered his sentiments upon the
subject thus early^ that gentlemen might turn
thait attention to it, although he did not think
that it would be advisable at present lo have re-
course to direct taxation. The indirect taxes
which had been laid had been far from succeas'
ful, some of them, indeed, worse than nothing.
The tax on snuff was one of the latter. SeveiKt
taxes had been proposed iu the select
le, but had been rejected. He doubted
not their commerce would coQtioue to advance,
and that, in the fear 1801, the duiiet arising from
it would be so mcreased as to be equal to the
public necessities. He thought it necessary, how-
ever, ihai they should turn their eyes to ine sub-
ject ; he would not advise the aaoplion of the
measure, but he should be glad to have a sight of
a digested plan relative thereto.
Mr. Gallatin said the amount of the sum in
the rcMjIution was not verv material; but so many
observaiioos had fallen irom different quarter!
asainst the system of direct taxation, that he
should think it necessary to say a few words OB
the subject.
He agreed in one thing with the gentleman
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'Additional Reveiute.
[APBI^1796.
from Rhode Island, thai they ou^ht not
sarily to alarm tJie people by giring them an idi
that they want to raise money by direct taxes
thef do not want money. The first thine to be
eonddered wa^, Do they want money 1 If their
revenue were sulGcient toanswer all the demand:
which were likely to come against them, it woulc
be unnecessary even to direct the Seereiary ol
the Treasury to prepare a plan on the subject;
Iwt, if it is important not to alarm the people, it
it equally important not to deceive them. They
should be made acquainted with their true situa^
tion, without flauery and without exag|geratioa.
He tbooght their situation truly stated in the re-
port of tlie Committee of Ways and Means, which
was at present before them. It appeared Ihf
their present revenue was equal to tbeir currei
domestic expenses ; hut there were several objec
ihai claimed their attention. These objects wei _
oT three different kinds; (irsi, the iattalments of
the Foreign Debt,as they became due, which can-
not now be satisfled, as heretolbre, by new loans.
Hence arose a present embarrassment for money.
Nor had any permanent oroTision yet been maae
to discharge the Debt. It was for providing the
means of meeting these demands that a system
of direct laxalion was proposed. It was not to
alarm the people, hut in conformity to the wish
of the people, and the recommeoaation of the
PsEsinENT to lay a fouodatian for etiinKuishins
the Public Debt.
The second object to be provided for was, iht
Debt consisting of domestic loans, which had been
contracted under the new Qovernment, and wer
of three kinds; 1st. The instalments of 200,00
dullats a year to the Bank, on account of stock i
the Bank of the United States. No provjsio
had been made bi Congresa for discharging thes
insialraeots, so that they had been paid by hoi
rowing money abroad, or rather the Debt wa
tumefl over from one creditor to anotlier.
3d. The millionof dollars which had been bo i
rowed to purchase a peace with the Algerine!
The sums appropriated to do this, were the fiv.
new duties on snuff, sugar, &«. These had
5 roved unproductive, and were only su^cient to
ischarze the itaterest, but not the principal.
3d. The anticipations furnished by the Bank ot
the United States in advance of the revenues. Of
these anticipations he would sot speak at present,
as he should have oecasion to speai of them hei
after. For those anticipations no revenue was
fact provided — for the revenues paid every year
were barely sufficient to defray the expenaitures
of that year, and could not be applied to repaying
the anticipations of the preceding year. Hence
a debt of 3,800,000 dollars had accumulated on
the Isl of Jatfuary last, which remained to he
disc hailed.
The third object to be attended to was the in-
crease of expenditure of near 1,200,000 dollars a
7ear,from the year 1801, arising from the annuity
of eight percent, payable after that year on the
deferred stock, and for the payment Bf which no
rereoue was provided. It was thought necessary
to make some provision for raising an additional
nil. as early as possible, as
the meantime might be
- — 1 of the domestic
revenue, equal to the si
I the money received io
employed in dischai^ng »
loans or Foreign Debt. The Committee of Ways
and Means had filled the blank in the resolutiog
with ■ million instead of 1,200,000 dollars, and
they had suggested the reason in (he report. One
qiillion two nundred thousand dollars were to be
raised at all events, to meet the year 1801. But
if 800,000 dollars were added, then the two mil-
lions would, within a term of twelve years, not
only pay the annuity of eight per cent, on the
deferred stock, but di$charge the whole of the
Foreign Debt, of the domestic loans of every de-
scription, and of the new Domestic Debt created
in order to discharge the balance of the Debt due
to France. Such a prospect justified the mea-
sure, and would, he trusted, render it agreeable to
the people of the United States. Yet, as it might
appear during this year, that the present revenues
would prove more productive than had been con-
templated; as, in the course of this session, some
of tne expenditures, chiefly in regard to the Mili-
tary Establishment, would, he Doped, be dirai-
nisned; and as, under those c i re ura stances, Con-
gress wotild be better able to judge, at the ensu-
ing session, of the actual additional revenue that
might be wanted, he had 'no objection to the pro-
posed ameodment, and to leave the sum in blank.
He had, however, no idea of such savings being
possible as Were contemplated by a gentleman
from New York [Mr. Wiluamb.T That gentle-
man had said that two millions of dollars lai^ht
be saved by a reduction of the Military Establish-
ment, and a suspension of the Naval Equipment.
How he could make it appear that two millions
could be saved out of 1,500,000 dollars, (which was
the whole estimate for both those objects) he could
not understand. But he agreed that a considera-
ble saving would be made tVom those resources.
The present calculations were all made upon the
present expenditure, therefore, " if this was io-
crea-sed or decreased, it would increase or de-
crease the deficiency.
But as to the resolution itself. If it had been
proved that they wanted the money. In what way
should they raise itl There were great outcries
against direct taxes. He owned he did not see them
in so disagreeable a light as had been represented.
They knew money must he raised either by di-
rect or indirect taxes. Whatever prejudices gen-
tlemen may have against direct taxes, yet Uiey
must al! agree, that iT a large revenue was to be
raised, it would be necessary to have recourse to
both mojes, in order that property of every kind
might contributi* its due proportion. Taxes, in
every country, ought to apply to that kind of pro-
perty which exists in the country, and it wa^ evi-
dent that the situation of America was very dif-
ferent from that of Europe. We. could raise
large sums by impost on imported goods, but if
irse waK to be had to excise). Or duties on our
manufactures, we should find these in an in-
fant state when compared with those of Europe.
It will beproper to mention fhe articles of domes-
tie manufactures which alone appeared to, be in a
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HISTQ^y Qg CQW<ma|jfc
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Additional Rtveruit.
[B-O',^-
Mi£ScieDtlf flourishiiig situatioQj and ezteneire
«Dough U> be produciivB, and which were accord-
ingly reported hy a select committee, but rejected
by the Comiiiittee of Ways and Means; they
were (besides au additional duty oo salt) hats and
leather; but it was found that a tax on these arti-
cles vai no( a tax on luxuries, but would be as
obnoxious, and more oppressive than direct taxes
could be. It was from these coasiderations, aaj
not from any fondness for direct taxation, (flo ding
that they had exhausted the subjects of impoEts)
that they thought of proposing the present plan.
The chief resources of the English were, land
tax and excise; but here it was imposts alone
which supported their rereaue. They raised
thereby six millions of dollars, as it had the same
effect as excise in other countries, being an indi-
rect tax upon what was consmned, and the reason
for laying them in this way was, because we were
not manufacturers.
Again, it would be found that the chief pro-
perty in this country was land, and not a capital
applied to manufactures, and therefore they would
be obliged to haTe recourse to land and not manu-
laetures for revenue, He hoped, therefore, the
present resolution would be adopted, whether
amended or not; and he hoped those gentlemen
wbo had objected to a system of direct taxation,
would, previous to the next session of Congress,
give'tbe subject a candid examination.
By the present resolution, the Secretary of the
Treasury was ordered to make out such a plan of
direct taxation as shall be most agreeable to the
laws of the different States. He said the part of
the United States ia which direct lax^ were
thought to be moct obnoxious, were the £astern
Slates, and perhaps that circumstance arose from
their system of direct taxation. The proper ob-
jects of direct taxation, in bis opinion, were, visi-
ble, and especially, real property ; forj he sup-
posed, when property was invisible, the only way
to tax it was in an indirect way; for it was im-
Sossible to value it, and of course to tax it by a
irect mode, unless the accouot given by every
man was taken for granted, or an arbitrary power
left to an officer to guess its amount. Yet, in the
Eastern Stales, they taxed ia a direct way, real
and personal, risible and invisible, known or sup-
posed properly, aod it was a question with him,
whether that was not the chief cause of the pre-
judices which existed against direct taxation in
those States. He conceived a tax on bouses aod
land might be raised without difficulty, and his
own wishes were, that a system had been reported
for that purpose, by the committee, instead of re-
commending the present plan,, which was to be
applied to tbe laws of the di&creai Stales, and to
embrace the defects of aU; but a majority of the
committee approving tbe present plan in prefer-
eaije. it was of course adopted; ana he trusted it
would now be agreed to.
Mr. HABrBB said he would vote for the amend-
ment, and even if that were lost, still he should
rote for the resolution' as reported by the com-
mittee, but lest, by so doi:^, he should be under-
stood to concur in (he opimgna advanced by some
gentlemen in support of the resolution, he begged
Feave to state, and he should do it as coociK^ai
possible, the sentiments which he enteriaio'ra ' on
this subject. He approved tffe reso I ntion; be-
cause the object and tendency'of it were, not to
establish a system ol direct taxation, but ro' fui^
nish the House with a digested plan on'that siib-
ject, with the most complete information, of
which it might hereafter avail itself, should the
exigency of our afiairs,the support of our ntitioniil!
credit, render a resort to direct taxation' neces-
sary. He agreed with the faonorabla member
lately up from Pennsylvahia [Mr. QAtLATiitlJ
(hat we ought not to deceive or mislead the pe'ii<
pie respecting tbe state of our finances, but he
was far frdm agreeing with bim as to the imme^
diate necessity which he had' alleged as to be un-
der, of makingan addition to our present system
of taxation. Wheace could thiis necessity arise'?
In order to answer this question, we must ask in
the first place what are our present objects of ex-
penditure, and how far is the present revenue adb-
qoate to meet ihem 7 They coniist of Aiit irti-
elcs : 1st. The support of Qoverntnent, including
the Civil. Military, aod Judicial departments;
2d. The ibterest of tbe Public Dbbt, foreign and
domestic and 3d. The gradual reimbursement 6t
a particular description nf the Public Debt. Tb
these objects it appears that the present revenu^
is fully adequate; and from hence could arise ah
necessity for an increase of taxes. Bui (here
were certain additional objects of eipeodlture,
cot included in the current annual expenses, for
which it was said provision inust be made. What
Were these? They were capable of being divi-
ded into two general classes ; first, the reimburse-
ment of certain parts of the" Public Debt; abd
3dty the interest on the Deferred Debt; whit-K
would commence in the year 1801, amounting to
about 1,200,000 dollars. The debts lo be itomft^
diately reimbursed consist of three descriptions^
IsL The instalments of the Foreign Debt which
will became due in this year; 2dTy. Instalthentg
of Domestic Loans ; and 3dly. The Debt due to
the Bank of the United Stales, partly for loana,
and partly for other 6bjccls. Those tQree classe>
constiliite that part of the Public Debt which, it
is said, must now be paid, aod on the supposed
necessity of paying it, rested the neisessity lor ali
immediate increase of revenue by new taxes.
The necessity of paying it, however, he defaied>
reloan It at six per cent, interest, the principal (o
be redeemable after a certain number of years.
They will accept this Loan as a payment," and
thisjiayment will enable them to accommodate
the Government wiib such loaas In future ai may
be necessary for paying the instalments of tbt
Foreign Debt as they become due; an operation
by which the Foreign Debt will be gradually
converted into a Domestic'Debl.
There appearing, then, no necessity, at tfaia
time at least, of paving the prinelpal'of this peb^
the paynient can be urged oo retsoDo of policy
ily. What, thtw. does p^ltcjr, and an enligU-
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Additional Recenue.
[Apill^ 1796.
eoed regard to the interest and happiaess uf the
people dictate on ttib subject? A nation, in
tWKTj respect stationary^, stationary in its popula-
tion, in its commerce, in its i ndus I ry, should it
find its present taxes inadequate to the support of
its curreol expense, and the gradual extinguish-
ment of its Public Debt, ought to lay new. taxes,
because every priuciple of good policy dictates,
that efiectuat provision ought to be made for pay-
ing, within a reasonable and convenient time, the
Public Debts. But a nation progressive in all re-
spects, like the United States, increasing beyond
all former calculation in population, commerce,
wealth, and all the pursuits of industry, ought to
pursue a contrary policy, because, as her rev-
enues, being derived from her wealth, her. com-
merce, ana her consumption, must greatly in-
crease, with them she has the most certain, pros-
pect of deriving from her present sources of reve-
nue the ample means of paying her Debt inn
*horl time. The United States had two sources
' from which they might expect to derive ample
funds fat this purpose; the mcreasc of their reve-
nue from the present lazes; and the sale of their
lands. As to the first, it wa« well known that
the revenue from imposts and tonnage had great-
ly increased within the last two or three year:*.
In 1793, thev were 6,000,000 only; in 1794.
6,680,000 dollars. What, then, may we expect
them to be ten years faence? The internal reve-
nue was also certain of increasing with the in-
crease of population, capital, and industry. With
respct to lands, the late Indian Treaty had given
the United States the disposal of upwards of
9,000,000 of acres, which we are now passing a
law tn sell at two dollars per acre. The Indians
must also rei^de before the progress of our settle-
ments, it being in the nature of things that an
•gricuitural people must root out a people of hun-
ters ; and as they recede, their lands fall into the
disposal of Congress, ana furnish an unfailing aDd
increasing source of revenue to the Union. He
requcBted ^ntlemen, who might be in doubt
about the importance of this resource, to turn
Ibeir eyes to the Stales of Pennsylvania and New
York, and to the District of Maine. They would
find tnat lands there had tripled, even quintupled
ID Talae, during the last four or five years, and
that those States, though they by no means sold
OD a wise plan, had drawn vast sums into their
treasuriet from this fountain. Why, then, should
it not yield immense revenue to tbe Union, if
hasbauded as it had appeared to be the disposi-
tion of the House to husband it ?
Under these circumstances, would it not be the
worst of policy to lay new taxes for paying debts
which we are not called on to pay? Nothing
bat necessity could justify such a step; and that
necessity could never exist while their creditors
were content to receive the interest, and let us
retain the principal. Ought we to take the capi-
tal out of the pockets of our constituents, when
■n annuity equal to the interest would satisfy the
creditor?
As the interest of the Deferred Debt, which
ttoold commence in the year 1801, that; he swd,
must undoubtedly be paid, and provision for pay-
ing jt ought to be made. Wchave,however, (Vom
the source above mentioned, the utmost reason to
believe that our revenue would, by that time, be
so far increased as to meet this additional expend-
iiure without additional taxes. If we shouM be
disappointed in this hope, new taxes must be re-
sorted to, and he would agree that-we must, in
that case, look to direct taxes, the system of indi-
rect taxation having already, as he nofr conceiv-
ed the subject, been carried so far as not to admit
of any considerable extension. Should direct
taxes, in this or any other event, appear to be ne-
cessary, the plan contemplated bjr rnis resolution
would be of essential use in directingus how to ar-
range the system. It would, also, be ol use, should
we, contrary to present appearances, be unable to
continue on loan any such parts of the Public Debt
as we are now liable to be called on for. till our
pres.rnt revtoufs shall have increascJ and afford-
ed us the means of payment. In that case, new
taxes will become necessary, and this system will
probably appear the most eligible. For the pur-
pose, therefore, of gaining sucli information on the
subject of direct taxes, as may assist the House
in any future resort to them wnioh mijht appear
to be necessary, he sholild vote for the resolution,
declaring it, as his opinion at the same time, for
the reasons which he Dad stated, that no such re-
sort was now necessary or proper.
Mr. SwANWick was better pleased with the re-
solution as proposed to be amended, than as it
stood in the report. He thought a plan for laying
a direct tax would be of great public utility, as he
thought it a proper tax to be resorted to for an in-
crease of revenue. It was certain they had drawn
most of their examples of taxation from Great
Britain. She, like them, derived most of her re-
venue from commerce, which she watched over
with the greatest possible attention ; so that,
though heavy burdens are laid upon her com-
merce and manufactures by the great attention
which her Gorernntent pays to their encourage-
ment and protection, these classes are enabled to
support them. But how was the commerce of
the United States at all times exposed! It was
always a matter of courtesy in tbe European
Powers whether their ships passed in peace, or
they were despoiled. This being the case, it was
too precarious and uncertain ground to rest all
their revenues upon. The gentleman from South
Carolina had gone into arguments to prove the
impolicy of paying off iheir^ational Debt at pre-
sent, from an idea that ibey sha>l be better enabled
to pay it at some future day. This kind of pic-
ture. It was true, was very pleasing ; but he should
also have taken another view. This country was
not, more than any other nation, secure from the
misfortunes of war, pestilence, or other calamity ,
and if such a day Of evil were to arrive, would it
not reverse all tne objects which he had so plea-
singly painted? And was it not wise lobe pre-
pared to meet misfortune 7 If they went on in-
creasing their Debt, tbe whole revenue of the
country would be swaHowed up in interest to for-
eign countries, and all their measures woal4 be
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mSTORT OP CONGKEaaS.
[H.OPR-
bnver cloggsd*for want of haTin? a portion of
money in their Treasary. The deierring of ibe
payment of money (o a future day, iras a rock
upon vbich many liad found raia. What had
Men the experience of atl ages, with respect to
tbe nations acting upon Boch a policy 7 yfas it
not that their finances eTery day became more
desperate, and that the evil was only cured hf re-
Ttdutionl He need only look lo the simaiioa of
Great Britain to be deterred from adopting »ncb
a system. For six years, he said, they had been
nantrat, whilst Europe had been is a flame of
Uxes lohave paid off their Debt. If they Waited
tot a peace in Enrope before they attempted this
bttaness, he, believed, 'wbenerer that took plac',
tbey should either experience a decrease or a
stagaation of trade. In the year 1801, they should
b« called upon to pay certain insialmenta of the
Foreign Debt; would it, then, not be wise to aoti-
eipate the moment, at a lime when they bad few
taxes to pay. and proceed to reduce their Debt?
No one could think their credit would be Uasened
by such a practice; itiroiiidbe greatly increasedi
for, as soon as it should be known that they were
paying off their Public Debt, foreigners would im-
mediately hase a higher opinion of them. Every
nalioa was getting tired ol ibe system of funding ;
and it would be tbe greatest encouragement lo
foreigners lo come to this country, when they
learnt jhat they were paying off their Public
Debt. He was, therefore, in isTor of adopting
euch a mode of direct taxalioD as shoald. be best
suited to tbe several Stales, in order to pay off
ibeir Ucbl as soon as practicable.
.. .J found no more than tKe interest was paid.
And to supplythe deficiencies of several years, they
were called opoD now for five millions of dollars,
Imt if former Lefialatures had been careful to have
kept their accounts even, this call would'not have
been made. He did not like the plan of loaning
and reloaning. Besides, he believed that time
was passed. He believed that several natioas,
who had b*eii in the habit ot borrowing money,
had failed to pay their interest regularlv, which
had given a shoclc to loaning which would not be
ensity recovered. He believed the Bank ef Eng-
land bad been compelled to shorten their disconnts.
American funds bad fallen in conseqtieaee, not
from a want of faith in the American Gk>vem-
ment, but owing to the general scarcity of money
in England.
The gentleman from South Carolina had «aid,
that their lands would be a fruitful
posaiUe: For he should think it as nnwiae for
the nation as for an individual lo oWe monei
whilst be had lond with which he could pay oi
bis debts. He thought if even the land should
increase in price, the price of the [mblic funds
would, at least, keep pace with the prioe of land,
he was, therefore, for selling the land whilst a
ffood price could be got for it, and fot paying (beit
Debt whilst the price of slocks was low.
' Mr. OiLSEST did not see any necessity for so-
long a discussion. If they were to attend to all
that genllemea knew on the subject of public,
debt, taxation, dtc, they should increase the Na-
tional Debt instead of reducing it.
Mr. HiLLHocsB moved an amendment of the
as nearly as may be," to be added to the
reeling the calculation of the plan of di<
liou to be made according to the practice
of the several Stales. He observed that it had
lid, that the difficulties in systems of direct
taxation liad arisen from endeavoring tolas in-
he said, the ob;"~
from moneyed a
ig subject to i(.
The first resolution was agreed to, and the
Comraillee, by general consent, passed on to the
fifth, for making an irredeemable debt for twenty
years, of five millions of dollars. The resolution
Dcing read, some debate took place upon the pro-
priety of passing this resolalion : it was at length
agreed to, leaving the words five millions a blank,
to be filled up when the bill came before the
of the debate, Mr. Gallatin, wbo
opposed the measure, upon ihe ground of its un-
neeessirily increasitig the Funded Debt, as he
thought the Bank of the United States might still
give Governmenc credit for the sum owing ; call-
ed the Public Debt a public curse, which called
forth the censdre of
Mr. Dayton, who said^ he was glad lo find that
when the terms disorganlzers, rebels, traitors, Ac.,
were fiyin^ about the House, that gentleman had
not joined in the cry,, but he thought he was
equally reprehensible with the gentleman who
bed used tbe terms allnded to, in catling the Pab-
lic Debt a public curse. He disliked all such
ihrases, and, also, that thev should cast any re-
leCtion upon the public creditors.
Mr. W. SMrrn introduced the following state-
ment, viz : That it wa.i proposed to fund five mil-
I of dollars, being the amount due 1st Janu-
1796, by the United Btates to the Banks of
the'United States and of New York. The items
which composed the said five millions, were,
1. Far antieipBtioa, on account of the accru-
ing revenues for the current terncet $3,800,000
8. Foraninstehnentof the Dutch debt,due
June, iraS .... 400,000
3. For loans hod on account of Algeiine
negMiationB - - - - 400,000
4. For insUlmcnti due for Bank dock - 5,000,000
Mr. W. Smith said, that against the above may
be placed the following sums, to the credit of the
United States, viz:
Bank itock, the property of the United
Btates, producing 8 per cent, per annum ^,000,000
Stock itanding to the credit of the Com-
miMionenofthe Sinking Fund - 3,307,861
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AddituMoi Jtepom*.
[ACTH,lTaft
IiwUlueDtoflhitididsbtrfJiiB*, I796,iB-
dudad in the debt to Iha Bani - - WO,D0A
ftcimbiinemeBt of 6 per caat atock an Um
Uit DMMDbei, lt9& • ■ saOflOO
0,673^81
1?o wldcb might be idded for Iwnda at the
eiwtoin-houM» uncancelled, which the
coorae of the Treaaotj bnaiQeia exhibita,
on an aTaiage . - . . 4,000,000
IWd to b« oppoaad to tba temporu; debt $9fin,6t\
Mr. Smith further remarked, that the aonual
expeosea smce Januaiy, 1T94, nad beeo greatly
increased by the CaUoyriag extraordioary items,
The WeateminaDTTection - ■ (1,300,000
Algeiine and other negotiationa - • 1,000,000
f ortiflcationa and navid armamenli ' 600,000
At this point the Committee rose, and had leave
TheSPB«KEB laid beibce the House a Letter
ftom the Secretary of Slate, enclosing sundry es-
timates, referred to in the Message or the PiiEaT-
DBNT, of the 29lh ultimo, relative to Treaties with
Spain and Other foreign natioas, and with certain
Indiah tribes; which was read, and ordered to
lie on the table.
'Tbe Speaker informed the House that he had
in his hand a confidential communicaiioa from
the PnESiDEMT, and the House and galleries were
nccordingly cleared.
MoMDAT, April 4.
The committee appointed to inquire whether
any, and if any what, atteraiioos were necessary
to be made with respect to Post Offices and Post
Roads, made their report, which recommends
■eTeral routes to ba discontioued, and others
to be established. It contains, also, provision for
the «afer conveyance of newspapers in future, to
different parts of the Union.
Mr. Macon, from North Carolina, moved that
bis resolution, laid upon the table a few days ago,
to provide that certain persons should be allowed
tD pay a duty for the quantity of spirits distilled
' for the last year, instead of according
pacity of their stills, oa account of a
failui
crops, should be referred to the Cnipmitiee of
Commerce and Manufactures. The motion was
■(leedto, aod ibatihe provision should be geaeial-
ADDITIONAL REVENUE.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the report of the. Committee of
Ways and Meant, on the receipts and expendiiures
of the Government ; when an amendment to the
fifth resolution, to Strike oQt the words Ave mil-
Ijon^ and replace them with the words one mil'
Uon two hundred thoosoud, being under consi-
Aenuion,
Mr. Gu.i.ATfN said, he wished to withdnw *
part of his ameodmcat, by leaving the mm blank,
boping that tbe Committee would take care to
inquire into the actual situation of the aecount
betwixt the Treasury and the Bank. Whilst be
was up, he would mention, that it seemed to have
been supposed, from what he had siaid on Friday,
that be was hostile to the Bank of tbe UniiM
Statea, having called the Public Debt, as it re-
lated to the interest! of the United State*, a pub-
lic curse. He said, in saying this (which be
maintained to be true) he meant not to Kleci upon
the Bank, or any other of their crediion : he
thought, on tbe contiuy, they were under ofalig»-
ttonit to tbe Bank. The resotutioa was tteK
agreed to. The Committee rose, and repotted
the first and fifth resolutions, which were agreed
to, as follows ;
BMiA>ed, That the Secretary of the Tiensuiy
be directed to prepare and report to tbe Houae of
Representatives, at its next aesaion, a plan fm
laymg and collecting direct taxes, by apportion-
ment amons- the several Slates, agreeably to tbe
rule prescribed by the Constitution, adapting tbe
game, as nearly as may be, to such objccia of di-
rect taiadon, and such modes of eoUeoiion, as may
appear, by tbe laws and piactice of the States, re-
spectively, to ba most eligible in each.
Ratoived, Thatthesumof ^— — dollan ooghl
to be obtained, to discharge the debt due to the
Bank of the United State*, by creating a »toA
bearing an inteLrest of six per cenL, and irredeem-
able for yeei's; the redemption thereof to
oommence thereafter, and to be peyaUe in
yearly instalments.
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in, par-
Goant to the last reaolntkin, and that the Commit-
tee of Ways.aad Means do prepare and bring in
the 9ame.
LAND OFFICES NORTHWSST OF THE OHia
Mr. W- Smitb moved that the House shonld
again tesolve itself mto a CtHnmittee of the Whole
on the letnaining reaolutioni ; but Mr. Wilu«H9
and same, other members, wishing that the bill
for establtshing Laad Offices for the sale of the
Northwestern Territory might have the prefet-
eoce, the HouM resolved itself into a Cbmmitiee
of the Whole, and the first aection baving been
read-
Mr. Vah Ali.bn' moved to strike out certain
words, and to introduce otbera, for the purpose of
limiting the quantity of land to be sold toe fiiel
ypar, oe the plea, that if too much of the land was
brought into the market at once, it would either
sell for a mere trifle to speculators, or it would not
sell at all.
This amendment was supported by Uessra.
Isaac Smith, Hollanix WiLLiAiis,HEtaTCB,and
Hatenb ; and oppoted.by Messrs. Habtut, Ni-
□BOU.B, SwANwicc, Dattod, Kitchbll, and S.
Smitb. It was negatived.
Tbe second section of the- bill being under con-
sideration, Mr. Uou-AKD wished to moke am
amendment, in order to accommodate the poorer
class of farmeta, by striking out the words 610^
.abyGoogle
867
HBSTOB¥OF OONGRSaS.
Apbil. 1796.]
Nor^inoutern Load O0iee».
and to ioserl 160 in llieirplaee,80u to redoes all
the 640-acre lots ioto lob of 160 acres each. The
moUDQ was oegatired without debate.
The third seelion was amended by fixing that
all the landa wnt of the Great Miami ahoold be
sold at Cincinnati, and the cesc at Marietta.
No amendment in the fonrlh section ; in the
fifth, Mr. SiTORiAVBa proposed, imlead of a for-
feiture of land in a £iUure of non-payment, to take
the u|ual security of bond and mortoaae. This
amendment ma opposed by Mewn. W. Bnitb,
NioBOLAfl, Hartlet, Sboowick, Dayton, and
Willi AMa. Negatired.
An amendment, that a deposits of fire per cent.
OB that part orihepurchaBr-money for wnicb cre-
dit ffBs to be given, should be made at the time
of sale, was agteed to.
The Committee then rose, and bttd leave to sit
tgain.
A communication was received from the Se-
cretary of the Treaiuty with a letter from the
Comptroller, with an account of the salaries paid
to the o£Scers employed in receiving tlie duties on
inports and tonnage. Referred to the Caauaii-
tee of Commeice rad ManuGBctureo.
TUBSDAT, April 5.
The House took np the amendments of the
Senate to the Indian trading-houae bill, and re-
solved to insist upon theii disagreement to the
Senate^ amendments.
Ordertd, That a Committee of Confeience l>e
appointed to canter with the Senate on the tub-
jeel-matter (hereof.
LAND 0FFICE8 NORTHWEST OF THE OHia
The House, in Cotnmittee of the Wh<de, again
took np the Land Offioe bill.
The Stb, 7lb, 8th, and 9th sections of the bill
were agreed to, with a few amendmeota of little
Mr. Williams moved that the lOch clause
(which enacted that military warrants should be
allowed to be paid for one-eevenlh part of pur-
chase of land) should b« struck ont. Ha said he
had on a former occasion given his reasons for
wishing this etanse to be siruok out, and he be-
lieved there was no necesiify for repeating tbem.
If there were any objeotians to tjie meaeure, he
sboald be glad to hear tbem.
Hr.NioBOLAa hoped the olauee would be struck
out. It would be lieet that a tract of land should
be laid ofl by itself upon which these warrants
might be laid, as, in the wtty proposed orinnally,
six millions ot ecrea most be sold before the war-
rants would be tatisfled.
Mt. Dayrow (the Sptaktr) said, it would be
best Aat the ctaase sbouM be siniek out, not fac-
eanse it offbnd a better chance to the military
warrants (which waa the ground of otjeotion witn
the gentleman from New York) but as wor^e
any other. On eonsttlting with persent who had
earned and beU these amrraata, he found it vrould
be better that a tmct of land sho'tM be set apart
brtben twit -would be likely ibal it would uke
. ten years to locale theii warrants by the
mode prescribed in the bill, as tbey could only be
laid ont in prt^Kirtion to the quantity of land sold.
He liDped the men who held these warrants would,
at length, have justice done them. The Iraot
which il was proposed to appropriate fur them
was land of a middle quality, lying between the
land of the Ohio Company and Scioia riVer. This
seemed to be approvea, and he was, therefbre, for
.kins out the clause.
blr. W1U.IAMS said, it mattered uoi to him from
what motive the clause waa struck out ; if it waa
stinek out, he knew itwouid be of considerable ad-
vantage to the sale. A^ed to.
\Ir. Crabb wished to utroduce an amendment
the second clause, viz: "that one half of the
640 lots should hi sold in lots of 160 aores each."
Seretal members observed, the sense of the
House had been taken upon the question yestei-
'ly.
Mr. Hoi.Lsjii> said the present atneodmenl was
)i a similar question with that of yesterday, but
would, in some degree, meet the wishes of gentle-
men who opposed It, as (his proposition onlyeoo-
lemplatsd ODe-half of the six huDdred and fottji
lots to be divided, whereas the farmer mo-
proposed that the whole should be su divided.
The principal objects of the bill were to sid the
revenue, and one other object ought to be to ac-
raooate real settlers in jpreferenee to thoae
who purchased with a view of Kelling again. This
amendment, he trusted, would lend to^th those
objects. Few men who would be inclined to set-
tle in that country would have so much money as
would purchase six hundred and forty aorei, and
tbe clause directing a forfeiiuie of the land would
prevent association, as in ease of a default in any
of their associates the rest would be liable to lose
tainly increase competition, atid, consequently,
the price of the land ) and that it would accom<
modate a large body of men, who would other-
wise be obliged to purchase at second-hand, was
also evident. It would have anotber good leo-
dency, viz: to prevent monopoly, which ought
Qot 10 be lost sight ot, as it had ever been held by
writers as dangerous to the aitsteuce of free Oo-
vernments. And, wiiat would be allowed to be
very desirable, it would accommodate, as mush as
possible, the poorer class of iheirciiizea*— a talaM
of men. who were the most valuable io a commu-
nity, because it was upon them that they eouM
chiefly rely in cases of emergency, fbr aefenoe,
and, therefore, they ought ig ha accommodated
and .made ha^py j to be put into a atuation m
which they might exercise their own will, which
they would not be at libeHy to do if they wera
obliged to beeoms tenants to others. To line in
tkat iepcndeni way had a, tendeney to vitiata and
debase their minds, instead of tnBkinf them free,
ealtghtened, and independent By this amend-
ment, this elasa of citizens would be enabled t*
became possessed of real proj)ertf-->a situation in-
cident to freedom, and desired by all. As thil
rerc died with the biaiiuai,Md tlieii
.d by Go Ogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.}
Northvettem Land Ofica.
minds made up, he did not wish to treipiss on
their patience. He web a friend of' the bill, and
hu ooly wish was that it might so pais as to give
general satiEfaction- IT this amendment did not
talie piace, he knew the bill would be reprobated
bf many. He did not wiah particularlf to en-
courage adTenmrers to that country, but he wished
eTery ctasa of citizens, who bad a detiire to pur*
chase this land, to have a fair opportunity of pur-
chasing, in proportion to (heir- capital, of the Oo~
Temment, and not from private person'r. He
wiihed naBkiiid to he as independent as possible.
He did not like the idea thrown out, that these
people were likely to fall off from this Gorern-
ment. He thought the peace, and happiness, and
atlai^hment of the people, would be more likely to
be secured, when the land was occupied by real
proprietors, than if posseued by persons who were
sabject, by being teoanta, to the will of others.
He thought it a curious idea that had been ibrown
out, that lesi these settlers should become too in-
dependent, that the bill should aa pass as to pro-
duce sparse settlements, lest they,bemg connected,
would involve us in fu Indian war. Thi* pre-
sDpposei, said ho, oar citizens always to be tbe
aggressors, which he did not admit. But on the
contrary, being extended thinly over a large ex-
tent of CDQDlTy, they would be an easy sacrifice
to the sava»s,. and render their circumstances
more miserable. He hoped (he amendment won Id
]^evail, without which he muslbe opposed to its
passage, although with reluctance, as ne was im-
pressed by the necessity of an addition to the re-
venoe.
Mr. Habtuet thought that if this amendment
WBE agreed to. it would change the principle of
the bill. He thought tbe division proposed would
unreastHiably delay the survey and increase the
Bxpente of it ; and that, as the Dill now stood, per-
sons might join together and purchase a six hun-
dred and forty acre lot, with as much ease as they
would purchase them if smaller. There was no
oce«siun for then to go into luoh minutiK in the
bnsinesi. He htul as much a wish &t any one to
serve the poorer class of citizens, but thought they
should not carry tbe division fartWr than taey had
done.
Mr. Van Allen hoped the amendment would
prevail. It would little increase Mtber the time
or expense of surveying. The ohief alteration it
weuld make would oe an increase of the numbM
of sales; but a trifling sum put upon each lot,
iriuch would be cheerflilly paid, would mwe thkn
recompense for it.
Mr. Cddpbb hoped the amendment would not
prevail. The iBtention, it was said, was to ac-
commodate poM men; bat, did practice tell them
that poor meftlrould buy these lots when divided 1
He referred Co sales of land in the States of Penn-
■ytvania and New York, where, though Isind was
and in small lots, there were n<H twenty instances
of farmers buying it. The noneyed men bad al-
ways been the purchasers at those sales, and he
apprehended it would be (he case in the aile of
tus land.
Ifa. Claibobki wu infavoi of tkeamambnoBt.
He did not Aink there would be any considerable
expense attendii^r; it. He- thought the more tbe
lands were divided the greater would be tbe com-
petitioo ; and if this were not the case, he was
apprehensive that though land might be worth six
dollars an acre, they would not sell for more than
two. He was, therefore, for so dividing the land
aa that speculators migbt not have it io their power
CO play mto each other's hands.
Mr. Cbabb said he was induced Io bring foF-
vrard this amendment, because he did not believe,
as ihe bill stood, that one-half cbeir citizens who
might wish to become purchasers nnd actual set-
tlers of these lands, would be accommodated by
the present provisions of the hill. The poor man,
he said, was more likely logo into that country
than the rich, but be insisted that the bill, as it
now stood, was a prohibition Io all poor men nc-
qniring these lands, and he had heard no argu-
ment to convince bim the amendment would not
be a good one in point of policy as well as justice.
Qenllemen had said poor men may JQin together
and so purchase ; but these were difficnUies at-
tending such associations. A man must not only
look to his own resources, but to his associiton'
resources and integrity, lest, by a failure in com-
pleting their purchase, the land should revere to
ihe Union. This apprehenaion would prevent in
B great degree such associations. The dividing
of the land into small lots would put it into the
possession of real proprietors, and have a tendency
to make good Republicans instead of aervilc ten-
ant) dependant upon tyrannical landlords. It
would not be denied, that the more land was di-
vided and subdivided the stronger woofd he the
settlement, and the more fiiinly would be the peo-
ple's attachment to Government ; for il was well
known that the strength of a country did not so
much consist in its gre^t extent as in its compact-
ness of settlements and theattachment of the peo-
ple to the Governmeni. By this means, he said,
encouragement would be given to useful, indus-
trious men, and it would not be in the power of a
few men to engross the whole.
Mr. C. said it might even require two or Dtore
poor men to purchase one bund red and sixty acres,
and this, he trusted, was not a consideration too
low to occupy the atteation of that House. For
his part he could see no reason which could be
urged against jiassing of the amendment be bad
proposed, since it would not onlyservfi a valuibln
Wy of people, but would tend to get more money
into thajr Treasury by opening the door and in-
viting a considerable class of citizens to market.
He said there would remain one-half the land in
large tracts to meet the demands of moneyed men ;
one-fourth in tracts of six hundred and forty acre*
to accommodate substanliai farmers: attd that
House could not, he trusted, refuse the small por-
tion asked foe to accommodate the poorer class of
tlieii citizens. Some gentlemen had orged thai
people would never travel so far to a new country
to acquire so small b portion as one hundred and
sixty acres of land. He was of a diiTerent omdiob.
Lands had become so high in most of tLe old
Slates, that the hope of aoquiring poBscssioo tj
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OF GONGHESS.
Northwestern Land O^ffcw.
[H.o
the soil, and becoming independent, vras lost ; and
the reaUoflandK had risen so liiah, (hat the tenants
sorely felt the oppressiQa of their landlords, and
tbetr last hope of releascment from this oppres-
sion was by emigration to thisnew countrv. which
they looked on as common property. And will
this House, he exclaimed, blast this last remain-
ing, this flatterine hope, this natural and laudable
desire of independence! He hoped not. One more
oliserraiion, he said, he would beg leave to make,
and he would conclude and leave the ameodmeiN
to its fate. This observation hemeanttoapply to
ibose that Ihought men would not emigrate to
■equtre and passesi so small a property as this.
He replied, that the poor and the oppressed had
the ^eatest inducement of all men to emigrate.
And the man must know but little of human na-
tare indeed, that did not believe that when a man
had been in a state of dependence, and by strenu-
ous exertions of industry, riijid ponomy, nnd fru-
gality, had saved a small sum, which would
Karcely buy him a garden in the old settled coun-
tries where land is so bieh — ha» not such a man,
Mr. C. said, the most cogent reasons to move to
this new country where be could. With three hun-
dred and twenty dollars, became an independent
master of soil sufficient comfortably to support his
Araily on ^ And give me leave, i>aid Mr. C., to tell
those ^ntlemen, that the man possessinirone hun-
dred and sixty acres of land, in his own right, un-
der those circumstances, feels the sweets of it as
much, atid thinks himself as independent, and
perhaps roOre happy, than the lordly nabob that
bolda a million, not acquired by the sweat of his
Mr. Williams was in faroT of llie amendment,
IS he thought it would be productive of the best
consequences, as it would encourage freeholders,
■nd get a ^ood price for the land. It was cer-
taialy their interest so to parcel off the land as to
meet every desree of purchasers. He was at first
for dividinz the whole of the land into small
tracts ; but oe believed if they laid a pari of it off
in one hundred and sixty acre lots it would an-
swer every purtKue. He said the dividing of half
die six hnndrea and forty acre lots each into four
parts would be attended with little expense ; and
whatever expense it might be, it would be more
tiian repaid by the advanced price it would com-
mand. Besides, it was a duty incumbent nfwn
them to accommodate every class of their eiti-
Zens ; by doing which they did an essential ser^
vice to their country ; as the best way to make a
■Dan love and serve nis eoaatry was to make him
interested la it. It was, therefore, much belter
■hat they should aceommodale usenil industrious
citizens than that they should put their land into
the hands of rich speculators to exercise their will
Mr. CooPBB tigatQ insisted that poor men never
attended at any sales wbieh had been made for
"te purpose of purchasing land, but that they al-
' *>y' got it from the \arge purchasers.
' Mi. Qallatin hoped the amendment would
' P>^- Hedidnotthinkanyaotidobjectionhad been
■!»de to it It mw t be agrted, that tf any naoibn
of men, however small, would be accommodated
by dividine one-half of the six hundred and forty
acre lots into lots of one hundred sixty acres each,
the compelition, and consequently the price of the
land, would be increased. TheaentlemanfromNew
York [Mr. CoopERJ had said there were no such
men wlio would purchase. How did he know this?
Was he informed of the number of small farmers
who wished to go into that country 1 Herlainly
not. He went entirely upon supposition and analo-
try, He informed the House, that in the States of
Pennsylvaniaand New York, poor men never pnr-
ehasea any lands in the sales which were held
there. With respect to Pennsylvania, he could
say the gentleman was totally mistaken. He
would maintain that not more than one thousand
persons in the State of Pennsylvania had pur-
chased lar^ tracts of land; the other seventy
thousand mhabilants were mostly possessors of
small tracts. The cause of itH bein(r<>oId iu large
tracts at all was the quantity offered for sale at
once, and the low price at which it was sold. It
was evident that by selling a part of the land in
these small lots they should get a greater compe-*
tition in the sales; for, if a greater quantity of
land be offered for sale than a certain description
of men have money to pay for, though they would
gladly pnrchase a smaller lot, they cannot become
bidders for lots they are not able to pay for. The
other analogy which the gentleman refers to in
the State of New York, was a sale of land, at a
time when the sale of land was very dull, and
land was not wanted. Objections had been made
to this plan of dividing, on account of the expense
of surveying, and the time it would take to make
the survey ; both of which he thought perfectly
groundless. The expense would be trifling, and
would be more than repaid by a small sum put
upon each farm ; and the lime it would consume
in making the addilional survey would throw no
obstacle in the way of the sale. He therefore saw '
no objection which could be reasonably nrgod
against this amendment.
Mr. S. SuiTB thought the same question had
been negatived yesterday. If the mover would
alter the size of the lots to three hundred and
twenty, instead of one hundred and sixty acres,
he would vote for the amendment.
Mr. NtcttoLAa hoped Ae amendment would not
prevail. He did not believe it would be of any
real use. He need not say that he was as muen
a friend of the poor man, and of a Republican
Government, as any man. But he did not be-
lieve, except it was the few persons already in
that country, that the proposed division would ac-
commodate one man. If the gentlemen would
consider what was necessary to be done before a
man became pure ha rer of (his land, they mast be
convinced of the truth of his assertion. A man
intending to purchase must firat go and eiplora .
the country, m order to find out a piece of land
which would auit him ; and it would not be saf'
flcieut to fix on one parlicular spot, because oth«n
might waul the same. The uncertainty of vendue
would also prevent many from going into the
ODuntry to make '
.dbyGoogle
HisTosT OF GONcraesa
^64
am
»■] ■
NortkiMttem Laitd Ogicea.
[Aral^ 179&
PenoDS of iinall properir would raibet wait till
the sale was orei, aod the laod come to be laid
out and divided inio farms. The peraoas whom
the movei and lupporters of the picHUi ameod-
meat had in view would not embtace the offer
meant to be held out to ihem. He did not thick
one such penou would attend the sale. Tlie ad-
diiioDal expense of the survey, be uid, would not
be less thaa two hundred dolJan on eTery towo-
ship. This was a certain expense which he
thought iLiey ought not to go into for the possi-
bility of accommodating ft small numbei of pur-
chasers. He hoped the propositions would not be
agreed to, as there would be an additional expense
attending the suryey of fifty ihouaaod dollars, and
he believed it would not be repaid by the advan-
tase of the proposed sales.
Mr. JE'iNDLsr said, if he could believe the ex-
pense of luiTeyiog would be *o great as had been
•tated, he would never agree to a Land Office being
opened at aU. If the land was ofiered in such pai-
acl!> as that faTiiier& could only become purchasers
at second-hand, he did not tbiok lite land would
be sold, as' the best land in the State of Peuusyl-
Taaia was now offered at that iictce. But if it
were only the few in the neighborhood of these
lands who would be accommodated bv the pro-
posed divisioit of these lands into small lol^ il was
very desirable it should be done ; for these tew, he
believed, were several ihousaods, who had built
and made improvemeats upon tlie land, and to re-
move whom would be a task which he was sure
(he Qovernmenl would not willingly undertake.
Would it not, therefore, be very proper to divide
the land in such a tnannet as that these present
occupiers may become purchasers t The present
rage foi: goiag into that country was greaL Land
•nd provisioDA lied become high m the Atlantic
States, and some persons wefe so desirous of emi-
graimg, that, if they could not go upon this laD4,
ibey might be iiclined to go out of the Territory
of the United Slates. Oentlemen say tbey oi^ht
to be certain there would be purchasers before
they thus parcelled out the land. He thought the
^ohahiiily was very much on tbeir side, and no
^eniWoun couhl be certain there would i)0( be
purcl)aseisfar small lots. Persons were more gen-
erally inquirmg for tOO-aor« tracts than Otoeis,
and It beboorea them to provide for such persons.
The geoilemu from New York [Mr. Cooper]
b«d made frequent allusioBd to the State of Peno-
■ylvania. When the ftmd itk thai State was sold
it was generally in the po^ei of the ladi«Ds, and
was disposed of in large tracts; but in that part
of the country in which he lived, few farmers bad
more than 300 acres. Bui the l«.wfor dividing that
land gave a tpoe to the settlement of the ^uiUry.
There were very few large tracts in Penosylvaaia.
[le wps 4«sirous they should give a tone to ihs
iftttlemenlof this country. Thesmallar the tracts
wefe made, the more saleable they would be.
Greatnnmbers of peraoos wfre going to that coun-
try, and others would follow. It was improbable
tlMt lick Ian d-liolders would go thete: the emi-
grants woultl be chiefly of (he poorer claa*. The
^itinHuil upeiwe of surreyiog would be rapMd by
a small addition of fee to the 160-aete lots. Tracts
of this size, he said, would command a higher price.
He shoulci wish (nat there mi^ht be a portion of
the land in tracts of half a mile si^re, or 320
acres, He thought lots of both sizes might be made,
and that would meet the ideas of the gentleman
from Maryland.'
Mr. Vak A1.1.EH and Mr, NicBai.4s said a few
words upon the expense — the former iosLsting that
it could not be auytbing like that stated by the
latter.
Mr. MiLLEiKiB thought there was no oeeessiiy
for taking up the lime of the Committee any longer
on the subject : he believed there was not a mem-
ber who bad not made op his mind.
iiir. Madibon <i^as sorry to add anv obserraiions
on the Kubject, after what bad lallrn from the
gentleman from New Jersey ; but he thought the
arguments which had been used in favor of the
Eroposcd amendment had great weight. If the
)tsof one mile square could be easily divided into
four, (which it appeared to him they migbi,) he
could see no reasonable objection to the measuie:
for, if it could accommodate any number of real
occupiers, it wu desirable that it should be done-
The expense of exploring the country bad been
urged as an objection; but it occurred to him that
a number of persons would go and explore the
country without an intention of retumjmg, and
consequently the expense of their journey could
be reckoned as nothing. Whether so large a por-
tion of tbe country as gentlemen expected would
' be settled in this way, he sbould doubt ; but still,
he tbought attention was due to them. And he
found this to be the opinion of men who lived in
that part of the country, and was conversaot in
the busioess of dividing aad selling lands. He was
not sure whether the amendment was worded in
the best way possible.
Mr. Hastu:! anio objected to the divinion of
the lau.d into small lots, on the ground of expense
and the time it would t«ke to lay them out. He
added, that ibe Senate would not agree to this
diviflioit, if it were to pass that Hous^.
Mr. Havehb was surprised to bear the amend-
ment objected to on the ground of espenie: he
said the expense would be trifling. The survey-
ors would only have to mark every half mtle,and
to run the same line on tbe map.
Mr. VtK Allen said, that every objection to
expense might b« obviated by an amendmear that
the hind should he divided ou ^be map without
runniBg tbe lines.
Mr. CooFia spoke again in opposition to the
moiioD, and said they might as well lay out gar-
den spots as propose these small lots.
Mr.HBiSTBa hoped the bill, thus modified, would
ptts* ; and that, when the interests of the Tiea&u-
ry, and those of men most likely to become settlers
were unilad, there would be but one opinion upon
the subject. The gentleman from Maryland had
said that application had been pade to him on
the subject ; and he could say that many such had
been made to him by persons who wished to ^
into thatcouniry. The land should belaid offm
tract* suitabiie to the pockets ^f these people, in
;dbvG00gle
665
fflStOifcV OF eONGRESS.
ApsiL, 1796.]
Nortkvettem Land Office.
order that they may become la.od'OWaeri in com-
moa with others. There were mtmj [lersoiis with-
out the bar ol ibe House tba.t cDula give informa-
tion on the subject, if it were necessary. Some
might wish to putchaa« a mile square, some half
a mile, and a greater nimibFr 160 acres. It would
b« the iotereat of Oorerameiit to accommodate
them all, and he hoped uo objeclion would be made
to tlie present ameDdment.
Mr. Venablb wished the lines misht be k
as that no dispate might ariae bereaner. He was
in faTor of the principle of the amendmeat: it
would accommodate more people than any othei
clause in the bill. It wotdd reauire from 300 tc
500 dollars to parebase one of these small tmcts,
which was no inconsiderable smn. He donbted
not a number of farmers' sons would fo into
country without any inteniion of returning, and
therefore no expense could be reckoned on their
exploring the country. -It was Hzhc these persons
should be aceommadaled; nor did nethiak it would
be found either difficnit or expensive to carry the
amendment into etket.
The amendment was put and carried.
Mr. Van Allen observed, that the selling one-
half the land in lots of three miles square, or 6,760
acres, as contemplated by the'bill. appeared to htm
lo be 8 measure replete with such evident advan-
taires to that part of the wealthy class of citizens
whom they had been in the habit of styling specu-
lators, that he conceived it his duty to slate his
objections to it, and, if in his power, to obtain an
alteration. He moved an amendVoent wftich went
10 selling no tarfn loip than BiO acres.
He considered the land now about to be sold as
the joint and common property of every citizen
in the United States, and tnat therefore it ought
to be dispated of in such manner as would best
promote the general interest of the whole commu~
nity : that, iithis idea was a correct one, it would
naturally lead to an inquiry what wonld be such
disposition : the result of which he believed would
be, Brst, to accoramodate aotual settlers; and.
secondly; to bring money into the Treasury i ana
added, that, as he conceived (he first (o V the
{greatest abject, it ought to be attended to, even if
It would in some degree require a sacrifice of the
other. . But he hoped it would not be opposed, if
it could be shown that it might be accomplished
without any additional expense or loss to the
public.
He observedjthat the bill directed the whole tract
to be laid out into townships of six miles square ;
to subdivide one-half of them alternately into loU
of MO acres; and by an amendment one-half of
those lots were lo be subdivided on the map into
lots of 160 acres ; (hat the remaining half of the
townships were also lobe divided on the map into
four eqnal lots of 5,760 acres, for the purpose of
selling them in the above described lots.
. He stated, that, by actually running and mark-
ing ihe lines round every four lots that were to be
wld, they could be separately granted with as
much ai
fully surveyed ; that, upcn t'lii plan.
ine whole of the land might be laid out and sold—
the one-fonrth nrt in lots of 160 ai
rest in lots of MO acres — with prei
stiTveyingwbichwasnowdirecled to be performed;
and that therefore, do additional expense cauM Ve
incurred.
He then adverted to the sales, and observed, that
actual settlers might become pnrchasers from the
Government of lots ol 160 and of 640 acres ; that
none would be prohibited from purchasing; that
of course the competition would be increased, and,
he believed, the land sell bestj that as the large
lots woQid, at Ihe minimnm price, amount to
11,520 dollars, settlers Vere by no means likely to
become purchasers, as it was presumable few coold
command such a sum, and therefore they were In
eSecIuallv prohibited a; if a clause' to that effeet
bad been inserted in Ihe bill ; that the competition
would of course be lessened, and the land pur-
whiehhad been assigned for this measure was, that
all purchasers might be accommodated. He waa
willing to accommodate all sQch as were to be
settlers, but no others. . No one man, he ihoaght,
wanted to purchase so large a lot for bis own ac-
tual improvement.
It bad been said, the price fixed upon the land
would prevent speculation. He believed that might
be the case if the fixed price was the full value, or
so nearly so, as not to afford a pra&t. But these
gentlemen understood figures, and considered more
the per centage they could make than the high or
low price they paid for an article.
. It had been frequently said, and he believed, thia
was an excellent tract of land ; that some of it
Would sell at from three to eight dollars per acre;
and if so, wo. .Id it not, he asked, afford a hand-
me profit?
He said, it was fair to presume no land would
be pnrchawd lo sell again, which conid not afford
- ■ isonablc prospect of at least ?5 per cent, profit.
, at the lowest stated price, would be half a
dollar per acre; that about five millions of acres
were contemplated lobe sold tnlarge lots, wfiich,
at this rate, would eventually be a loss of two mil-
lions five hundred thousand dollars, besides the
difference of the granting fees, f which he made no
doubt would neti a proSt,)'ana answer no other
purpose than that of enriching individuals; that.
to sell the land when it was not wanteJ fbr actnal
settlement, ut in a manner which would preclude
settlers from becoming purchasers, would be mak-
ing a sacrifice : that, he tbnoght, could only be
justifiable under peculiar circumstances, such as
did not now exist ; that it was but another way of
Eayiag a high rate of interest, and establishing a
id precedent ; that, to sell the land in such larg%
tois'would, he thought, operate as an indirect tax
upon the cnttivetor — of so much at least as the
small lotswould sell per acre more than the large —
not to say anything about the rise of the land,
which would be increased in poporliou to the
settlements ihey made, without benefiting the Qo-
vernmeot. In short, he considered it as an act of
favoritism towards that eta^ts ofcitizens. for which
he could see no reason, unless il was their having
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BISTORT OF GONQRSISS.
u.orRO
Northietatem Land Office*.
[Apkil, 1796.
Biid a eoiuiderable proportioD of tbe Domestic
ebt to ihe otiginal holders. But he never heard
they had been sufferers bj it, and he presumed thi9
would not be assieued as the reason.
Mr. V. A- concluded by observing that he did
not, from anything he had said, wish to be consi-
dered as an advocate for an Agrarian law. He
disavowed any such principle, but did not hesitate
(o acknowledge himself a friend to equality — at
least so far as it respects tbe rights of individuals^
and hoped, tbat if ever any discriminBtioD between
different classes of citizens should be thought pro-
per, the poorer and middle class would not be con-
sidered tbe least deserving the care and allention
of Government.
Tbe amendment of Mr. Van Allen was ne^ja-
tived.and ifae Commiltee rose and reported the bill.
TheHouse then took it up,andBll the amendments
agreed to, without debate, except that for dividing
half the &10-acre lots into lots of 160 acrei each.
Mr. DcABBOHN hopsd tbe amendment woulc
not be agreed to. Persons might choose out thi
cream of the land in these small Tots, and the resi
would be lefl oq hand. In attempting to do righi
in the extreme^ he was apprehensive they would
injure the United Slates more than they would
benefit iadiridnals.
Mr. W. Smith thousbi the amendQient injured
the bill, sod instead of beuefiiiog poor people, it
would MneGt shrewd moneyed men, who would
avail themselves cf this provision to lay hold of
the choicest spots of land.
Mr. RuTUERroRD hoped this clause would be
wieed to, as it was the only favorable clanse to
the real settler in the bill.
Mr. S. Smith moved to strike oat " 160," and
insert "330."
Mr. CiUBH hoped the amendment would
take place, if 330 acres would accommodate si
persons, he was certain that 160 would accommo-
date more. The gentleman from South Caroliua
f Mr. W. Smith] had said the original amendment
would hurt the bill, but it was his opinion the bill
would be greatlv hurt to strike it out Inasmuch
as it had already been determined in the Com-
mittee, he did not helteve tbe House would eon-
sent to strike it out.
Mr. CnoPEB nid, that though tbe amendment
would be the means of putting 10,000 dollars ' "
his pocket as a land-buyer, yet, as a legislatoi
should oppose ii.
Mr. CLiAiBoatiB observed, if the amendment did
accommodate the gentleman with 10,000 dplh
be was of opinion he would have to pay a good
egoo
«way, and the bad len. He said it was no matter,
pay a
would be sold bv aui
lod land would be taken
if they got as much for the good as the whole was
worth. To destroy Ihe amendment, would be t
destroy the best part of the bill; to defeat thi
clause, would be to throw the land into the hands
of speculators, and put it out of the power of the
poor, but industrious farmers, to purchase at thi
Grst-hand.
The question was then taken by yeas and nay:
upon the amendment to the amendment, which
us lost, as has been stated ; and then upon the
riginal amendment, which was carried.
An additional section was added to the bill, to
preserve the navigable rivers freefrom obstruction;
and Ihe bill was then ordered to be engrossed-
Wbdnbbdat, April 6.
LAND OFFICES NORTHWEST OF THE OHIO.
led bill providing for ihe sale of the
lands of Hie United States, io the Territory North-
west of the river Ohio, ^ni above the mouth of
Kentucky river, waa read the third time, and ihe
blanks therein filled up.
Betolved, That the said bill do pass, and that
the title be, " An act proridiog for the sale of the
lands of the United Stales in tbe Territory North-
west of the river Ohio, and above the mouth of
Kentucky rjver."
Mr. Tbacy delivered io a report from the Com-
mittee of Claims, on the petition and letter of
Governor Sl Clair, Which recommended a law to
be passed to include his and similar cases.
Mr. W. Smith, from the Committee of Ways
for the Debt due to the Bank of the United
; which was twice read, and referred to the
of the Whole un Monday.
A message was received from the benale,
informing the House that they had passed a bill
regulating the compensation of Clerk^and asking
the ctHicurreDce of the House. The bill was read
twice and committed.
THE BRITISH TREATY.
After disposing of some petitions, the House
look up the order of tbe day, on the Message of
the pREBiDGitT in answer to the resolution of the
House calling for certain papers relative to the
Treaty lately concluded with Great Britain ; [the
proceedings on which have been heretofore given.]
Thdbboat, April 7.
The House proceeded to consider the report of
the Secretary of the Treasury, on the memorial
of Tobias Lord and others, which lay on the table.
Whereupon —
Ruolved, That the consent of Congress be
declared to such an act as the Legislature of the
State of Massac husi^tts may judge proper to pass,
for iinposing a tonnage duty on vessels entering
into Kennebunk river, in tbe District of Maine,
sufficient to defray the expenses incurred by To-
bias Lord and others, in erecting a pier near the
mouth of the said river.
Ordered, Tbat a bill or bills be brought io,
pursuant to the said resolution, and that the Com-
mittee of Commerce end Manufactures do prepare
and bring in the same.
Mr. GooDBOB, from the Committee of Com-
merce and Manufactures, made a report on the
resolution referred to them, respecting allowing a
duty to be paid according to thequautity of spirits
,:_.„_, : . ., .c.^. of EtiUs,il
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HISTOHY OP CONGRESS.
870
Naval Armantettt.
[H.ofR.
ordered to be refened la the Conmitiee ot (he
Whole on Monday. It was in ikror of the mea-
sure.
The committee appoiated to inquire whether
the Army had been regularly paid according to
law, so as that no pait of it bad been more
iban two mOQtha ia arrears, reported that many
had been from four to six moochii, and some
twelre moolbs in arrears of their pav ; but that,
owing to some reguUtions having lateen place in
the War Department, timiiar failures were not
Likely in future (o lake place.
The order of the day being ealled for on the
eoQsideratioa of the PBsainBN'r'a Meuiagfe, the
Houte resolved itself into a Committee of the
IVhole on that subject; and after debate, the ques-
tion WW taken upon the resolutions. [Fur the pro-
ceedings on which, see ante, page 763.]
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole, on the bill wiiich originated in
the Senate, supplemeDlary toanact, ealttled ''An
ut to provide » IVavsl Armament."
Mr. Nicholas called for .the reading ofa report
oTa committee of thai House on the subject.
It was read accordingly ; it recommends that
two frigates shoald be finished, the perishable ma-
terials sold, and the reel laid by.
Mr. W. Smith moved to strike out the Srsl
clause of the bUL which provided for the comple-
tion of three of tke frigates, in order to iulroduca
a clause providing for the fluishing of all the
fripte*.
Mr. SwAHwiox was in favor of the motion. He
said it was wonderful, that noCwithatandiog their
revenue almost wholly depended upon their com-
merce, no step had e.ver yet been taken by Qo-
Terament to guard it agaissl tbeattacksof foieigit-
ers; on the contrary, this great source of advan-
hge to this country constantly lay al the mercy
of the European Powers. When ihey considered
the great advantages which foreign commeroe be-
stowed npmi tlie Dati<H>,and the profits it afforded
to indivMnal merehantt, mechanics, &c., and in-
directly to the Bgricidtiual interests, ought they
not to aflbrd it ereiy protection in ineir power 1
Surely ihey.jaual conceive thai ibis milch cow of
thefamilypdeserved more atlention than had ever
Jet been given to her. With what horror did every
Bscriptiou of persons throughout the- Union bear
of the cMiure of their fellow- citizens by iha Aler
tines I How great was the effect upon the publi
mind I Snbacriptions were everywhere raised for
their relief; the sensibility entered into private
families ; eomediaus gave benefit nights to this
ase,and every pouible exertion wan made to effect
ihev relief. Was this showing a coldness wf'^
respect to commerce, on the part of ihe peopl
No, What did the Qovetnment do9 Findi „
that money was the only way they had of obtain-
ing a peace with the Dey of Algiers, a peace has
been purchased at an enqrmoas price. And would
it be prndent in them, imraedialely after this was
effected, to show to the Dey of Algiers their weak-
aess a«d decr«iutiide') that ihqr were determined
to become less bnergeifc in proportion as they be-
came mjjre rich and powerful? . There was no
more effectual way of encouraging ibis corsair,
ihao, after deiermtning to build six frigates, ib re-
duce them to iwo or three. And whal, said he,
would the Powers of Europe think of us 1 That,
whilst we were laying the foundalions of new
cities, and fl.ourishiiig in every respect beyond cal-
culation, wben we were about building a few
frigates, we were alarmed at an expense of four
hundrea and fifiy thousand dollan. Will they not
say, ibey are building cities and leavio^ them de-
fenceless? Indeed ihef-e was no security against
the bombardment of the new city, or any other
of their possessions, whenever an enemy chose to
undertake the business, their extensive coast being
whcjly defenceless. But it was said, what wiU
six frigates do for the defence of their coast and
trade? He answered, it would be laying the
foundation of a navy, which they could increase
' rces of the country should make it
Though we were apt lo speak lightly
of out own Etreogtb, we were considered as formi-
dable ahrgad. The question was not, now, whether
they should build six fricatesj but whether, having
begun them, they shairgo on lo finish them? If
the queslioD was on building the frigates, to aor
swer in the negative would not show such weak-
ness, as, in the case of hnving voted them, now to
VDle in part their discontinuance. Was (his of
a piece with the act they passed (be other day
for (he relief and proteclion of tbeir seamen 1
Which ever way he considered the subject, whe-
ther upon the principles of policy or economy, be
could discover no gronnd for discontinuing the
building of any part of the frigates. For. as to
economy, if their frigates bad been built, ne ap-
prehended Ihey should have saved the very large
sum which had been paid lo Algiers; and the
property in the country, which must be looked
upon as in some degree insecure at present, would
be roade secure from Ihe attacks of any maraud-
ing privateer. What was a frigate ? Was it not
made up of materials of their own growth and
pianufacture 7 and did not the building of them
employ (heir own citizens 1 They seni none of
their money al»oad to pi^rchase a uogle article.
Very contrary this to paying a oullion of hard
dollara to a foreign Power. The farmer, the mer-
chant, the mechanic, were all benefited by ihe
money expended upon the building of a frigate.
Nobody lost anything. Bat, gentlemen might
say, shall we lay new taxes to raise this money t
Svery one had an ides that money would be want-
ed for ibis purpose, and he doubted not it would
be cheerfully paid. They could suiely borrow
monev for the purpose of protecting tbeir trade,
as well as for the eredtion of buildings for the Qo-
vernment at the Federal City. But after all, it
was said, they should be weak with respeet to
other Powers. They knew that a certain Power
had got a mastery over the sea, owing to her ex-
tensive commerce ; bat though she had hitherto
proved an overmatch for any single Power at sea,
yet France, HoUasd, Spain, Sweden, and Den-
mark, have all of tbun reapectabb fleets, which.
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HISTOHY OF CONcaiESS;
H-ofR.]
[Apkil, 1796.
though they were not to powerful as tbe British,
thef were liLtle in d^ger from that Power when
aoiteil. How were the Uoiied Sutes aiiuated in
ihU respect'? Denmark and Sweden had an
armed force; but by itieimot haTiDganfitheyhBd
been compelled perhaps to enter into terma which
tkef otherwiie might not haTethought of And
on thi« account, he had less fault to find with their
ftegotialon than he otherwise should have ; for
be did not think that the House had done all the;
might hare done to strengthen tJie bands of the
EiecatiTe. A few frigates on their coast ml^ht
have preveoted much of the miMhiefs complain-
ed of. If they had such an thdr cOaat, they
would not hare heard the other day of a vessel
boing taken near (be New York light-house, or of
insignificant prifaleers sometimes pluodering ns
almost in our own harbon. It might be said, that
if their frigates had been out, tney might lioi
have prevented the capture; but it is probable, if it
had been known that they bad frigates on their
coast, the atleupt would not have been made.
Bat when he considered their defeficelesa situa-
tioD,he was natat allsarprised atthedepredatitnis
eommitted upon their property at sea.
Mr. B. laid he wa* not afraid of any fault bemg
foand with the expense which would be iDCOrred
generally v
hoped, iheii
hoped, therefore, they should not match retrograde
in this bnsinevi, Oentlemen would recollect that
the- CoBititntion contemplated a naval armament
in this country ; and ^e did not think they should
act up to the spirit of the Conslitalion, or aecord-
ing Id the expntaiions offbreign nations, or their
own citizens if they neglected this opportunity of
laying the fouBdation of a navy. He had had
great sleasnre In walking aloBg shore, to hear the
remarks of foreigners on the vessels nuw bnilding,
ivith respect to tlieir construMion. the goodness of
the materials, Ac., but "what tvili they say when
mtead of proceeding to finish these ve^el», the
materials are oS^red at vendue, and the Ooveiii-
Inenl made to become auctioneers in (act of the
materials^of tbe national strength ! He concluded
hj hopiugfih at whilst they werefirm in asserting
twir rights in their inl^rtMl concerns, they Vironld
ODt wholly neglect the protection of their exterior
commerce, which would amply repay all the care
bestowed upon it.
Hr. BoraxB Mid. it wae a condition of the
ordinal act avihorizing a NtvBJ Armament, that
all opentions in bniMinK the frigates should cease
in ««se of a peace wtl£ Algiers. He agreed in
opinian with the gentleman who had spoken on
the subject, that all the fl-igaies should be finished ;
but he wished it done in the way proposed by the
hill from the Senate, via : three with all conve-
nient speed, and the remainder when the price of
labor and materials shall be of less value. If gen-
tlemen would attend (o the report signed by the
Purveyor of Public Supplies, the naval architects,
d^., which was sent from the War Department to
the committee on the subject, they will find that
those officers were of opinion that two of the
frigates would be fini^ad in Noveaber. So that
he did not see the use of ordering them all to be
immediatelv «]u)pped, when two only could be
finished by November. He was in favor of agree-
ing to the hill from the Seaaie, in preference to
the report of the committee of that Hcuse. nearly
all themaieriBls being provided or contracted for
tbe whole six frigates; sad also becaun^ the ob-
jeclioD of tbe committee, founded on the want at
means, was done away. The report of the Beete-
tsry of War stated that the finishing the two fri-
gates, including the expend iturM for materials for
tha six, would swallownp the whole of the money
appropriated ; but the hill from tbe Senate had
appropriated the (80,000, which was meant for
a provisional equipment of galleys. Those $80,000
wonld not be suffieient indeed to defray the
expense of finishing the additional frigate, but
they woidd go a great way towards it, and it
would not be difficult to prurLde the rest. He
hoped therefore they should agr'ec Co the bill from
the Senate. The eommitteeof the Honse report-
ed that two frigates only should be at present
completed, and the rest sui^nded; but tbe Senate
have added a third, and that the remainder shall
be finished when the price of labor and materials
shall be more moderate. What indailed the Se-
nate to this alteration was, he believed, informa-
tion from abroad thai no reliance conid be placed
on a continuance of tt>e peace-with Algiers butan
eouipment of force adequate to meet the force of
Algiers. He wished thegeniteman from South
Carolina would, therefore, withdraw his motion,
and agree to the bill sent thim the Senate.
Mr. Williams said it appeared to him that the
Naval'Arraameni was Bret projected on account
of tfie depredations committed upon their ships,
and their sailors taken into captivity by the Alge-
rines. Heb^ieved the'bill would nOrlrave passed,
bad it not been for the elansc which went to sus-
pend the opemtions In ease of a peace with Al-
giers. A peace was now made with Algiers, at
the price, he- believed, of above a million of dol-
lars, and an amjial payment of tw«lve Ihoniand
sequins, which was betw>een twenty-three and
twenty^'fouT thousand dollars. Yet, notwithsund-
ing this, gentlemen seem inclined to go tm with
buildiag the frigates, as if na soefa peace had taken
]daee. If, indeed, their cofibrsw^refullof mone^,
and they did not know what to' do with it, this
might be done ; though, io lliAt case, he should be
opposed to the rfieasore, beeaose be believed that
it they had a navy they should soon have a war.
Two or three days ago, hemid, they were diseas-
ing the most properway of raiatnigBddftiaital reve-
nue. Batpe gentlemen jwriposed direct (axes, oth-
ers indirect taxes; bat the anticipations already
become dne they were obliged to fir. and they
had that most odious thing before them, a stamp
act. When he thought of this, he was acionished
to think gentlemen shonld be willing to fp> into
the expense of theEe frigates, as if their political
depended on them. How many frigate*
in the last warl Do not gentlemen re-
member what became of them 1 Did they think
the best means of defence for ibis country 1
Haa not expeiicMce abowiMhe rcvsree? Ijet tbem
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HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
874
:,, 1TO6.]
Naeai Anamaent.
[H.OFR.
DoncK the namber of ahipB of tbe Europeao Pow-
ers, aQd ray whether oix frigates would be of aoy
NTTice against them. He thought thai tettera of
marque, or vemels employed in ccmmerce, were
(be best fighting ships for them io cases of neces-
«ity; tbay were no expense, and answered the
purpose much better ihaa frigates. Frigates cost
vast samk of money, employed a great number of
seameo, ia time of peace as well as in lime of
war, and when they were taken by the enemy
gare them a ^eal accession of alrength. Were
they to have six frigates at sea, they would soon
GndBD enemy, and ^thaps be the means of in-
volving tbe nation in war, when they might oth-
erwise hare been at peace. It wus not, therefore,
prudent to hare a Naval Armament, until ihey
could have one that might commaDd re:ipect.
The eenileman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Swan-
vice] had dwell upon the extent of their com-
merce; but he would ask that gentleman whether
six, or tbirty-six frigates wonld be sutBcient to
protect their trade? The same gentleman had
also mentioned that different Powers in Europe
combined together; butwhy mention themi Were
those PowerB to be compared with tbe situation of
America? It was necessary there to keep up the
balance of power; but we were three or four
thousand miles distant from them, and it was by
no means in point. We were sufficient to ma-
nage our own concerns without European sup-
port. The true interests of this country, in his
opinion, were the agricultural, and every thing
taken from agriculture to commerce, was taken
from the greater &nd given to the less. If they
had not a single ship, he said, they should sell
ibeir prodaee. No doubt, foreigners, whilst eat-
ing is in fashion, would come to porcbasc their
necessaries of life ; all we had to do was to under-
sell other markets. And hewouldTentuielo say,
that if tbey could not support their commerce
without a Naval Armament, all tbe adraniages
derived from commerce would not pay the ex-
pense of it. All the> exports of this country, be-
tween September 1792 aod September 1793, in
the Mediterranean, to the Italian Slates, and Mo-
rocco, were to the amount only of between two
and three hundred thonvand dollars. Were they,
he asked, to lax their agriculturists, to pay for
frigates lo protect a trade like ihisi Were there
no vessels that paid imposts but their own 1 If
they went too far into, commerce, it would hurt
their trne interest, the agriculture of the country.
If gentlemen say, having gone so far with the
frigaies. it was necessary lo finish them, he would
say Ooverameol could never build ships so cheap
as individuals. They must establish a Marine
Department, something like a War Departmpnt.
Fix but an office and there will soon be something
to do at it. Happily for America, the Consiitu-
tton directs ilie Lsffislature not to appropriate for
her Army Establishment only for two yeatsj but
for a Naval Armament they might appropriate
for any term. At this time, he said, they bad
no act lo establish a navy : he hopett they should
have Dono. If once their fleet began to mcrease,
offices would increase alao: and be did not expect
4ih Con. — 29
tofind virtue et^mgh in that House to prevent such
increase; and when there were matiy offices to
give, it begot a system of favoritism, very uofaTor-
able to a free, Republican Qovcroment. It waa
easier to prevent the passjitg of an act, than to
repeal it when passed. Why, then, he asked, this
unnecessary expense? There was no occasion
for it ; for, if they were sure of being involved in
a war next year, he would oppose ibe building of
frigates. He Iboughl letters of marque, fortibca-
tions, and floating batteries, were the best defence
of this country in our present circumstances.
Mr. S. Smith taid if the question before ihem
was, which was the best kind of defeuce for this
country, he should not agree with the geollemaa
from New York; but he believed the motion be-
fore tbe committee was for striking out the first
clause of the bill, for the purpose of leaving it with
the PRBHinBNT to finish the whole of thd frigates.
The Phgsident informed them, at the openmgof
the sessioo, and he cordially joined in the opinion,
that the United States progressed in all tbe useful
arts, in agriculture, in commerce, and every other
valuable acquisUioo ; should they, then, by any
act of theirs, declare that tbey had not the ability
to furnish six frigates. He hoped that House
would not coQsenI to throw away the expense
already incurred in building frigates, not only for
the protection of ibeir coast, but for the protection
of their property and seameo against the depreda-
of the Algerines and others. The geniteoi
from New York had said we had paid a very great
price for a peace with the Dey ofAliFiers ; but he
orgot that there were two other Powers, (
Tunis and Tripoli, with whom no accommodation
had taken place. He had also fbrgei to say that
the peace entered into would not be lasting, if the
frigates were not got in readiness. These facta
were not to his purpose, but they were necessary
to be known in t^al House. If they were to send
three frigates into the Mediterranean, it would con-
vince the Barbary Powers that we were not that
insieuificant j)eople represented, but that we were
ready to chastise them, it they attempted to annoy
our vessels in future. The gentleman proposed
letters of marque, because they were no expense ;
but, though ihcy would be no expense to Goveru-
ment, they would be an expense to individuals.
And was it the duty of merchants, or of the Gene-
ral Qovemment. to protect the commerce of .the
United States! He had always understood that
when people entered into society they bad a right
to expect protection, and that all^iance and pro-
tection went hand in hand. Did Qovemment re-
half to protect the frontier? And what revenue
did the frontier yield 1 None. But it has been
contemplated ii will yield mncb. He believed it
would, and it was the duty of Qovernmeat to pro-
tect them; but was it less theduiy of Government
to protect its commerce? No, certainly not; and
they had a right to expect it. The gentlemao
from New York had also asked, were they to be
compared to tbe petty Powers of Europe? No,
they were not; for they, when in suited, armed, and
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HI6T0RT OF GONG«£SS.
87<
aoyR-l
t/dval Arvutvunt.
lAniL, 179B-
determined to hare redress, and they ^t it. The
differeaoe waa, therefore, not in their farot, dot
to their honor. If they had had a osvy equal to
thoM Povera, they would not have borne the in-
aalts which had been heaped upon them.
Nariei, botrever, were not under oAuideralioa,
bat it was their silualion with respeat to the Bar-
hary States. It wai not good policy to put the
couDtry to an unreasooBble expense ; hut it was
only just that the propBrir of citizens shonld be pro-
tected by sea as well as by land. The gentleman
from New York hetd said, the true interests of the
coantry were the a^cul[UTal,and>thenendeaTOr-
ed to excite jealonmes between the two. He said
their iateresta were onet and they equally pro-
moted the proepeiity and happiness of the coun-
tiv ; without the other, neither could be support-
ea< The gmtleman had gone further, and said,
whether they had a ship or not, foreigners would
come to their country to purchaae ibeir produce.
He said he was a native citizen, and he looked
With pleast^re on the exertions of native citi^eu.
Were thev (said Mr. S.) to depend upon foreign-
en alone 1 If they bad doae so, what would now
have been their situation t Many gentlemen bad
doubted whether they would have j^ovided ships
«BDUgh to have carried their own produce ; but
diey nad not only built Hhips to do tbia, but also
to carry merchandise from one pari of Europe to
aiuther. Should they, then, abandon their com-
maroe J He trusted tne apinion expressed by the
gBBtlemnn from New York would never be the
opituon of that House:
tlurash it appeared strange to him. But did the
Mutfemaa know that few merchants would risk
their vessels into that quarter for fear of the Bar-
bara Powers') He knew the Mediterranean well;
he had been there, and his mind was scarcely ca-
pable of eoneeiring the great advantages which
woald arise to this country were the navigation
of that sea perfectly safe. It would be greater
than, all the commerce we now enjoyed. A
better price could be got for most of their articles
tt that quarter than any where else. Would they,
tken, for the sake of a trifling expense, ^ve this
oesmerce wholly to foreigners? It might suit
tfca. gentleman from New York to employ fo*
nuners-but he tn
ab& to am House.
but he trmled it would n
He hoped the House wonld agree to the motion
of the ■Huleman from South Carolina, but if not,
to the bill as sent from the Senate.
Mt.Pabsbb was sotry he could not agree Wilh
tke gentiemaa who made the present motion. He
did not think it would be prudent to finish the
whole of the frigates at present; it would be an
anaccessary waste of money. For, though he
should be glad to see the national Sag respected,
yet he did not cee the uecessity of pruceeoing to
ooild more than three vessels at present A small
force, be said, would be equal to tbe protecting of
their trade in she Mediterranean ; for, peace hav-
ing been made with Algi
Eau ; lui, peace uav-
) and Morocco, the
power of Tnnis and Tripoli was inconsiderable.
The three bibles to be built by this act wonld be
mora than sufficient to combat the power of Tn-
nisnnd Tripoli, if we could not ma^e peace with
them, and wonld give respect to our flag in tbe
Mediterranean. The Algerines would see we had
a naval force, and woula be convinced we conU
increase it if we could not continue truce with
them. Henee, as they had made a peace with as
on advantageous terms, they would continue it
rather than break with us, as it was well known,
from tbe experience of Portugal, that a force
eq^ual to four of our largest frigates could keep
within the port of Algiers their whole naval force.
With res^t to what had fallen from a gentle-
man from New York, in reference to letiers ai
marque, he did not think it nsceesary to antwet
it. Indeed, the gentleman from Muyland had
done it so completely it was unnecessary for him
to notice his doctrine. As to the trade of tha
Mediterranean, he belieTed he knew little aboat
it. He had been assured, from authority which be
could not doubt, that if the MediterraDean could
be navigated suTely, not less than three hundred
vcMels mi^htbe employed in that trade. Indeed,
from the information that had come before the
committee on the subject, he was convinced that
that quarter would prove a profitable market for
most of their produce. Tbe fish of New England,
tobacco, rice, Ok., would find ready sale. Wheat,
he believed, was not in great demand. Being
convinced of this, the committee were desirooa
of completing as many frigates as would be ne-
cessary to protect that trade. The money at pre-
sent appropriated, he believed, would be sufficient
to complete the frigates proposed, and it would
remaia for tbem to determine wbat should be
done with the materials which remaia after com-
pletius the frigates intended to be completed. For
tbe present, therefore, he should wi^ the motion
of the gentleman from South Carolina to be disi^
greed to, and the clanse in the bill proposed by
*''e Senate agreed to. It would give him pleasure
see some vessels on their coast to prevent tbe
attacks made upon tbe property of iheir merchants;
but he did not think the present time the most
proper toeu'gage in the business,
Mr. W. Shitb did not like the idea contained
in the bill, that the building of the frigates should
depend allt^tha upon the price of materials or
labor. It carried something rather of a paltry poli-
cy with it. The frigates, he said, were either
wanted or they were not wanted ; if they were
wanted, the price of materials or labor should iml
bean obstruction to their completion; if not want-
ed, they had better be given up at once. When
they were about passing the act authorizing the
buildine of these frigates, there was a considera-
ble difference of opinion on the subject, but no one
thought six would be too many. For nis part, he
thought three would be of little use. He thought,
if they were to have bd armament, they could not
less than six frisateE. He believed the pass-
ing of the law which authorized tbe building of
the frigates had had a good effect in the Mediter-
ranean, and if they should only complete three of
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HISTORY OF OONQRESS.
ApuMTM.]
Novai ArmavuiU.
[H.Ma.
ifaem, it would kara a reij nnfaforabb appmr-
•uce ID that quarter. Expense, it va* true, was
an abject ; but if tbey metuit to have a Naval
Kquipmeat, it conld not be had witbout expense.
GeDilemeD aajr they will protect theii eeameo,
tbpr will have a Naval Aruatoent ; bat when ihe
thing coDoes to be carried into effect, the expenie
alarms Ihem, and the thing is abaodoaed. No ez-
peose, he was coDfident would be less disagreea-
ble to the people of the United States. They wish
la see a Navy estaUisbed. Six TrigBies were but
a trifle, it was true, but tbey were a beginning.
The only question was, whether they should pay
150,000 or 9100,000 more on aeconnt of the ad-
voQcei) price of the materials and labor, and have
them finished immediately, or pal them off
some future day. If they were to examiiie,
woali] be found that countries which now possL_
Ihe largest Navies had raised them by degrees ; it
was staled by Otalmera that tbe single port of
Liverpool sent out, during the American war, a
Sreater naval strength in privateers than farmed
le whole naval strenglh ot Oreat Briuin, against
ihefantous Spanish Armada, in the reign afdueen
Eliiabeth.
The bill before ibem from the Senate provided
for the finishing of three vessels with all conve-
nient speed, and the remainder in such manner
and at such time as. having a due regard to the
existing prices of labor and material^ the Paaai-
DEKT may think the public good rei^utres ; but do
appropriaiioD is ptoBosed, and until that is done,
tbe PaSBiPEHT coufd probably not proceed with
them. Therefore, if the pmeat bill passed, only
three frigates would be finished. He believed it
would also be some embarrassment to the Pbbbi-
DENT to know which of the six oi^ht to be com-
pleted. Were tbe whole finished, he said, tbey
would be very useful as a kind Of Naval Acade-
my, in teaching our youths intended for the sea
service naval tactics, aud have no inconsiderable
effect on their negotiations with ihe Barbary Pow-
ers ; but if it were known that one year they had
determined on building six frigates, and the next
were undetermined whether ibey should finish
three, or any at all, it would give foreign Powers
a very uafavorable idea of their atabilitv and im-
portance. Gentlemen were apt to talk a great
deal about their strength ; but when anything was
proposed to be done, uey were alarmed, and afraid
of incurring expense. Od this occasion, he was
persuaded their constituents would cheerfully in-
cur it for so deiirable an object.
Mr. Madiboh said, he was one of tbow who set
Seat value upon marine strength, and would not,
ctefore, object to any prudent and prouer means
of supporting it. But it did not appear to him,
when the frintes were originally authorized by
law to be buQc, that they would he sufficient to
answer the purpose for which they were said to
be intended. This opinion had undergone no
chanse. It had been said that the law of Congress
for building ibe frigates had had considerable in-
fluence in obtaioine the lale peace with Algiers;
but, judgin;^ ftom Uie amount of monev paid for
it, be must be induced to btlieve that tae pecuni-
ary provision aloae, aud not the naval one, bft^
brought about that event. At present, the subject
seemed to present itself imdei different circum-
stances from those under which it was formerly
placed. A new objeol was Resented to their oon-
sideralion. It was now said to be detirahle ta
employ some of those vessels on the coast as a de-
fence against pirates aud privateers, and not send
ihem to a distant lea to eSect an object to which
they would be inadequate. Under tnia couaiderar
cioD, he did not say that it would be improper to
affree to the bill, nor did he wiah to show a want
of means to build such vessels as mif^t be neces-
sary fo[ the security of our coasts. On the olhu
hand, he did not wish to determine that the fri-
gate* should all be completed, so as to add unne-
cessarily to our present expenditures. The far-
thest he could go at present was, to ai^ree that tha
three frigates most advanced should be fioished,
and that a final decision as to the others should at
least be postponed until they had gone into the
su^ect of the finances.
There was a modification which would be n^
cessary in (be bill. He did not think that if the
building of the three remaining frigates was left
to the discretion «f the PbebidbrTj that it would
be proper to give him the unlimited discretioa
Croposed by the Senate. He might let the ftieates
e over twenty years, and then build them. This
was a question proper for Lesislalive decisioUj
or, if they parted with it at all^ it should be for
a liuilied period of two or three years. This
was a motion, however, which could not be made
at present; he only remarked upon it for ooiuid-
Mr. Sedqwick was in favor of the motion of
the gentleman from South Carolina. He thought
f the arguments of gentlemen for reducing Uie
number of fri^tes should prevail, it would show
a versatility ofconduct in them to foreign nationa ;
foi if it was thought to be the interest of the nar
tion when the act passed that six fri^ies should
be built, It now became its honor not to abandon
the object. Enjoying the unexampled prosperity,
which every one was ready to acKnowIedge, the
expense of completing the frigates could benoob-
iect to the eountry. Besides, he thought it would
oe making mote expense to discontinue-a part of
ihem, by increasing the cupidity of the Barbary
Powers, than in going on with building of theoi.
This versatility of conduct would not be honora-
ble to the nation. Oqc principal object in viewin
building the frigates, was to guard their commerce
against the depredations committed on it by three
mrbaty Powers. A peace had been concluded
with one of these Stales, (Algiers,) and their citi-
zens were set at liberty. With only one of these
Slates at peace, if they meant to extend their
commerce, it would still be liable to the attacks
of tbe other two. if no protection was afforded;
and such was the disposition of these Powers, if
the building of their frigates was suspended, we
should have to purchase peace outheirown terms.
If the object was, therefura, relinquished, they
should bave more to pay for a peace with Tunis
and Tripoli than the diAerence in tbe advaooed
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Naval Armament.
price of maietials afid l&bor. If tbey, therefore,
reipecied the seeuriiy of their cUizens, the pro~
teetioD of their commerce, or the honor of their
country, the present motion should be agreed to.
Mr. Nicholas said there whs qo occasioa for a
■ew act at all. If be undentood the former act,
the equipment of the frigatei was to be discontin-
ued whenever a peace was made with Algiers.
The act was consented to only on tbai principle.
The amendment of the geDiI^man from South
Carolina would defeat itsrif. The expense of this
business, he said, was too much kept out of sight.
It would lake 400 000 doUari to Snish tbe frigates,
and the getting of them out to sea would cost as
much more. The geniletnan from Rhode I^and
and his colleague teemed to have been mistaken
with respect to the 80,000 dollars appropriated for
the galleys. That snm was not in exisceuce. The
question was, then, whether they should go into
tiiis business. Gentlemen had entered into inge-
nious discussion to prevail with the House to no
into the subject. But if he were asked what ef-
showing to foreign Powers that y)e did not under-
stand the true means of defence which were in
our power. It would be lessening, instead of in-
creasing our consequence in theeyes of Europe.
With respect lo the Alger! nes, they had paid a
million of dollars, and stipulated t'l pay twenty-
four thousand dollars yearly, for peace. Suppose
they were in circumstances to excite the cupidity
of the Barbary Powers, it appeared to him that
the cheapest was the best way of securing their
friendship. They could insure peace for a much
less sum than they could huild frigates. It was
not tbe 6Fst eost that was alt, for that would be
scarcely equal to the annual expense, whicli would
be at least 500,000 dollars — all which money would
necessarily add to their National Debt, or very
much increase their taxes. The principle upon
which the law passed, he said, did not require it
from them. It was passed only with a view to
the Algerines. He was willing to go into the
equipment of two frigates for the defence of their
coast to guard against pirates. He said he was in
tome degree interested in the commerce of this
country ; bat he must own, if it was necessary to
hare an armament to support it, he would not
have commerce on such terms. But he thourht
Kace might be got on better terms ; for he oe-
ved there was not suchsflink of expense as thaiof
Beets. He, therefore, should not be for uurchas-
ing commerce at such a |>rice. The arguments
Died for laying the foundation of a fleet would be
a farther inducement with him to oppuse the pre-
sent motion.
Mr. SwANWicK said, it would appear by the ar-
guments of gentlemen, as if they should have to
raise immediately from their citizens, for the pur-
pose of completing these frigates, 400,000 dollars,
thoughit would only he the inlere::! of that sum
at six per cent, which would be wanted. They
had just agreed to pay the Dey of Algicr.t the sum
of (24.000 annually, for wbal might be termed,
perhaps, only a truco ; hut in the case of frigates
of money which had been laid out f(» their
own materials. They should have the ships (hem-
seives for the money ; so that ia one caae there
was capital in hana, and in the other nothing at
all. The interest of the money was alt that could
be considered iu thiscase,l>eeause they went npod
the plan of horrowiog, and the frigates would cer-
tainly be as eood security as the lots in the Fede-
ral City. He th()ugfat it would be difficult to say
why they should guaranty those lots rather than
their frigates. He thought gentlemen were great-
ly out in their calculations, and if they consulted
economy, that building of the frigates would best
answer that purpose; for, what would they say if,
next year, ihe Dey of Algiers finding that he bad
nothing to fear from our frigates, was again to fall
upon our shipping 1 Besides, there were two
Powers, Tunis and Tripoli, with whom they had
not yet concluded peace, and these would ask
terms in proportion to our weakness.
It could not be supposed, Mr. S. obeerred. that
they were the happy few who could enjoy ail the
benefits of commerce and agriculture, wiihuul
force to protect them. When they were told tbal
they were situated at an immense distance from
other Powers ; that they bad nothing to do with
the balance of power ; that they were unlike the
small Powers of Europe, it appeared as if ihey
were almost out of the world ; yet, was anyibing
more frequent than to hear people say, " You will
be St war with Spain, with England, ifyou do so
and EoT" Tbe truth was, thai thourh Spain and
England were at three thousand or four thousand
-niles distance, yet they had possessions very near
IS — their naval and land forces could ensily ap-
proach us.
He wished to make one remark with respect lo
the Algerines. There were a number of gentle-
in that Committee with whom he was fre-
itly in the habit of acting, who concluded, be-
e the Empe'ror of China had no ships, and yet
carried on great commerce, that they might do wilh-
ihipsalso; he could not agree with them in sen-
timent. For, if they were to tell him that the la-
dies in China cramped their feet and wore shoes
like those of children, he should not be for insist-
ing upon tbe ladies of America to do tbe same.
Qeutlcmen had got a notion of carrying tbe pro-
duce of the country in foreign ships ; yet, though
there was no comparison between their sitnation
id thaCof the Emperor of China, this doctrine had
been industriously disseminated, and was a canlier-
■porm, which, if not destroyed, would destroy their
lommerce and manufactures, and cvenlually their
igrrcuiture. Gentlemen wno were acquainted
with history need not be told thai Agriculture
flourished in no country so mnch as in highly
>. Enelaitd and France might be
quoied as instances. And, indeed, if they looked
their own country, the truth would be suffi-
itly clear j for. he would ask, when was their
agricultural interest at the highest? Wns it not
i moment when foreign ships were almosi en-
:ly excluded their shores, and when their mer-
chants gave fifteen dollars a barrel for flour, and
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881
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Aral L, 1796.]
Natal A^iiuMtunt.
[H.a
wnen tbey could ^t thr«e dtdlan n bairel for cai^
lyiDg it to m foreign country t The iateresis of
commerce and m^icullare would be forever fouod
inseparable.
Let them coDsider agriculture in another point
of view. All iheirwaten were accessible to ships
of the greateac burdeo. and coasequenlly their
ahores were always io danger from foreign Pow-
ers. Indeed, Moktetquieu had said, very justly,
"That those who comouDd the sea eommand [be
land aisa because they can always choose ihe
•cene of operation." Indeed, whatever gen (lem en
may say, whenever an equal number of years has
passed over this country to that which passed be-
tween the reign of Q,ueen Elizabeth and George
3d, America will doubtless be found to possess
nayal strength equal to that possessed by any other
Power whatever.
Mr. S. said, he fonnded this idea of the progress
of the Naval force of the country on its terntory,
and whoever looked upon the face of it, must be
convinced that it must become a great maritime
country. When they viewed the Chesapeake, the
Delaware, the extensive seacoast of New Eng-
land, it must appear likely to become one of the
greatest maritime countries in the world. No na-
tion of Europe could compare with it in respect
to territory and mighty waters ever^ where inter-
Kcling it, nor even in tonnage of ships, compared
with the actual population.
Oentlemen asked whether six fri^tes would be
likely to have any effect in protectmg their com-
merce and seamen 7 He believed that tbey would
induce MHne.respect, at least ; but if it went abroad
that tbey refused to finish them, it wouhl give To-
reign Powers a cootemptible notion, not of ability
but disposition to defend ourselves, though by the
by, a very ill-founded opinioa; for, if their Qov-
ernment was weak, the people were strong. He
believed it was the wish of t^e people that a Na-
val Armament should take place. The peopleon
the Mississippi and Ohio were now likely tosbare
in the necessity of their Atlantic brethren for pro-
tection; those rivers being now opened for them to
the sea, he should not wonder lo see tbe.senti-
ments of that House in a few years materially
changed on the present subject.
Let them not, wilb the gentleman from Vir-
ginia, calculate so nicely on thb business. Gteo-
tlemen should recollect that part of their great
family (as the people of America were very em-
phaticall^r ilyled by a gentlemaii from Virginia)
were navigators; and wfaibt they were granltnK
the agricultural part of the Union a million and
ft half for the protection of their frontiers, let
them, in their turn, grant the mercantile rart
something for the defence of their property. The
quettion was. whether, having put their hand to
the plough, ikiey should now look hack? Let it
not be said that they talk of their power, for
when it eomn to be put into effect, it vanishes,
because it cannot be done without expense.
The geatltman from New Yoik hied said, that
when thvy bad injuries done them, they were not
to retalifttOj but •abmit ; if so, not only their coat.
J eiomk. would ba taken bom them.
would have gentlemen recollect, that their fanna
were equally insecure with the property of mer-
chants, and that afler having taken ships enough,
there was nothing to prevent their continuing
their depredaiioas on shore.
Mr. WiLLiiMB explained. He did not wi8h,aa
the ^ntleman from Maryland had suggested, to
excite any jealousy between the commercial and
agricultural interests. He wished to encourage
' -' - interest of theu
country wonld admit, but he thought agricnlture
reqnired iheir greatest attention. The gentleman
last up had said, that the whole expense of build-
ing the frigates ought not to be looked at, as il
would only be the interest which they aboold
have to pay, but he wished to ask that gentle-
man whether, on some future day, they should
not have to pay the principall He thought thia
a strange argument.
Mr. AuBs did not wish to go into an argument
at length in &vot of keeping u^ a Naval force;
nor did he suppose his conceptions on the subject
were very materiaL The gentleman from Vir-
flinia [Mr. Madisoh] objected to the number of
rigales proposed to be built. He agreed with
him, that if it were neceuary to keep up a Navy
able to cope with EntojKan Powers, it would be
better to relinquish their commerce altogether.
It was true it might, on the score of expense, be
iocoBveiiieni to keep on foot the whole numbered
frigates, though he had objections to reduciag Iha
number of them. It had been said, that a the
six frigates were completed, they would hare no
efiect iQ repelling the force of European nationB.
There would, in bis opiuioo, be two advantages
derived from having some force. There waa
something in raising an opinion of force ; it would
have some effect on the imagination of foreisB
Powers. He owned he looked forward to the
time, when, if good Oovemment continued, it
would be in the power of this nation to cope with
any European nation, if it was their duty to do
so. If they aimed at all, though but a small
force, it could not fail to [^oduce respect to the
nation. It is a display of some stieogtii, and of «
spirit that could command more.
Another idea with respect to any dispute with
England: Every one supposes that with SOO
abips of war she would be an overmatch for an^
vessels we could build; but if we have six fri-
gates, they would be obliged to come out in fleet*
instead of single cruisers; and thus our frigate!
would be able, iu a considerable measure, to pro-
tect our coasts. The opinion of their force would
serve to protect our trade in peace, atid their ac-
tual force would be of aome use in time of war.
>^ilh reepccl to the Barbary Powera, the idea of
force will have some effect ; for they will not be
influenced by justice, and their cupidity will be
whetted or repressed by a contideration of our
strength or wukneas. He thought it necessary
to act on the fears of those Powers. Two or three
frigates would not he a matoh for Algiers ; but
that was not all, two or thre» frigates aould not
always be on the station; some muat be ready U>
relieve othen. He aoked, tbeiefore^ wheiheiUM
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H-OFlL]
[Araii- 179<1.
dimii enough Trould not be a mate of money 1
He thoug>ht, to hare tbeir trade half ptoteeted
might be wotie than no protection at ail.
mi hit conception ; he might be ttdd that he was
in error ; but as the obseiration appeared of some
weight with him, be made it.
Bat in bis Tiew, there was an object fu more
inteMBting than mere eonnting-honse calcnlation.
Admitting ont Nafy might coat more than the
ininrance against capture, he wonld ask whether
they listened to the sighs of their citizens in Al-
(iaral If they bad tfaoaght of these, they woold
afcf that ihe protection of their citizens was worth.
Mon than it cost The frigates proposed t
built woold prodace a sense of security in their
aeamen. and wontd have a very ^ood effect ; but
if Aey nad not force enough to give security, and
the sense of it, it wonid amonnt to nothing.
He considered the possession of force as the
only way of gaining respect, and he doubted
whether the triumph of the Roman arms by the
Roman legions was not as much owing to erery
citizeD beuevtng himself equal to a King, as to
their streiigth. And he wished an Ameiican citi-
zen diooltf cherish the rights of citizenship more
tiian cash. This national protectioQ will cherish
the lenae ot brotherhood; he believed this was
necenanr in a country where lime had done so
little to Knit together the ligaments of our Union,
trfaieli M many repulsive passions were now in
AiU activity to sever.
Mr. Galutim said, before ,the question was
nken, however trifling a consideration tbs
penae of bnildinK the frigates might be, he sh<
wish to know from what sources they wen
have the money. The gentleman from Sc
Carolina, well acquainted with our finances,
Bot deigned to ny from what revenue they might
laise the sum wanted ; bis colleague ftom Fenn-
■ylranla had proposed to borrow it. He rose
principally to rive an estimate of the expense ;
Mt before he £d this, he would remark, with re-
rt to appropriations, that although it was raid
the tnoDcy appropriated for the frigates was
Mt all expended, and that therefore a part of the
ram now wanted would be got from this source,
yet it would be well to recollect, that when an
ap{wopriation was made, do money was thereby
pat into tbe Treasury, and therefore that an un-
ezpeflded balance of appropriation was not a. sum
«f money existing in tbe Treasury which could
IWapplied to any purpose. He was opposed to
^ tiie principle of boilding the six frigates, because
it created a large additional expense without any
KMani bein^ provided to defray it. It appeared
Vf the cAcial statements before them, that the
A frigates woold eoit 1,143,160 dollars, and tl^t
406,971 dollars thereof had already been ex-
pnded ; from whence it resolled, that a fartber
■urn of more than 680,000 dollara was wanted,
■id must be provided for in order In complete
tkat tmnament. Although (230,000 were appro-
priated in part of iKis last nm j^being the onex-
iWnded balance of the apprapriation of last year)
ao ffands were provided to discharge any part
"*"' of tbc axpesse. In all the official atate-
ments of At Secretary of tbe Treaenry, in Ae
report of the Committee of Ways and Means,
which waa groooded on these statements, the to-
tal amonnt of expenditures conieniplated for the
current year was exclusive of that som; if that
sum were added, it would increase the deficiency
of this year, estimated ai 1,200,000 dollars, and
make it near 1,900,000 dollar*. Bat exclusively of
a»y must be con-
sidered by the ofGcial statement the expense of
pay of officers, of s^men, Ac., and sobsistence of
two frigates (one of forty-fonr, and one of tbirty-
sii) for six months, wag eaiimated at more than
70,000 dollars; and therefore tbe expense of pay
and subsistence of six frigates (four of forty-four,
and two of thirty-eix) for one year, amounts to at
least 425,000 dollars. If to ibis are added the ex-
pense of keeping the phipa in repair, and a varieiy
of other incidental charges, il will be found (hat
the estimate of the gentleman from Virginia [Hr.
Nicuolab] viz : that the pMmanent veai-ly ex-
penditure of tbe six frigates would be naif a mU-
liun of dollars, was too low. Yet the only ex-
pense coDlemplftted by tbe Committee of Ways
and Means on that bead, had been 74,000 dollan
a year ; and, therefore, prorisiou muai be made to
increase the revenue, by a sum of 426,000 dollara
a year in addition to the sam of 1^,000 dollan
a year wanied from the year 1801 to pay tbe an>
nuity on deferred stock; in addition lo the sum
of 680,000 dollars immediately wanted to build
the vessels ; in txldiiion to any provision that may
be wanted to pay any [wrt of tne prinei^ of our
Foreign Debt, Domestic Loans, or anticipations.
Again, when he considered tne advantages to
be derived from this armament, be could see no
good ground for gornr into this enormons ex-
pense. Me was sensiUe that an opinion of oot
strength woold operate to m certain degree on
other nations; but he thoeght a real ad<hti(m of
strength would go farther in defending them than
mere opinion. If the sums to be expended to
build and maintain the fri^tes were applied to
paying a part of their National Debt, the pay-
ment would make them more reapeotable in the
eyes of foreign nations than all the frigates they
could build.
He could not diseover how six frigatM conid
be considered as tiie fonndation of a Nary. To
spend money naoecessarily at present, would di-
minish their future resources, and instead of ena-
bling them, would perhaps render it more difficult
for them to build a Navy some years hence. If,
instead of building frigates, they were to buy op
timber for future one, it might be called, with
propriety, the fonndation of a Navy. But
building a few weak veasels ill deserved that
name. Prom these consideratitms, be skoold rote
ai^inst building the six fricates, althoogb ha
might agree to uie report of uie committee, who
had recommHided to complete two of the thipa.
Mr. OoonHui said, as they had made peace
with Algiers, and materials and labcr were at«
rery high pries, he should «Me fttr finishing three
frigates only at prcaeot, and for Uyiaf op iha t^
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
68fr
AFR■^1796.]
Navat Armament.
[H. DP R-
mund«r of t&e materials for ibturesemce. Ships
building at the present [leriod were atmoit double
the price that iras paid in ordinary times.
Mr. QiLGa thought the present merely a money
concern. Six frigates could not gain any sreat
respect for the nation. They had no immediate
Dccasioa for frigates, and he thought this the
worst possible time to build them. He befieTed
gentlemen were much mistaken with respect to
the effect they wonld produce. He spoke of the
peace with Algiers, and aaked, if building the fii-
ntes had tended to lessenthe price of that peace?
Was not the sum beyond any calculation thai
had been thought of^? Gentlemen frequently
supposed that voting a thing to be done, was to
cause it to be done. An appropriation ~"
thing, and money another. When thev spoke of
lences, they overrated them. If they would
the biiilditig of k Nary, they shonid fix on
1 proper time. With respect to rersaiility, it
coald not be charged oo them, for they were en-
deavoring to act according to law. For his own
part, he was against the law altogether. He was
of opinion, with IhegentlemanfromPennsylvauia,
that if they were to pay off the National Debt, it
wonld gam them more respect than their fri-
gates.
Mr. W. Smitb said the gentleman from Penn-
lylrsnia [Mr. Qallatir] had a^ked where the
money wa? to come from to complete the fri-
gates. He believed they were not reduced to so
contemptible a sitnation as not to be able to raise
money necessary tor completing their frigates.
He thought it would be proper to have a Loan
for the business. A Loan might be had on the
new revenue. He hoped there would also be a
laving in the Army Establishment. Indeed, no
doubt could be entertained with respect to funds,
if the measare were deemed necessary.
The act passed for the purpose said, they would
build six irigates. A clause was indeed added,
when the bill was about to pass^ directing them to
be stopped in case of peace with the Algerioes;
but it was never serioosly thought that the build-
ing of any of them would be discontinued. It
wuuld appear so degrading to the country, (hat
he tmtted it would never take place. It bad been
ably ^own, that those frigates, though a small
force, woidd add respectability to their character
kbroad. Oenliemen said, how could a few small
Tessels be considered as the commencement of a
Nary. He said the frigates which were build-
ing were not small, bnt large vessels, equal to
■bips-of-the-line, and he trusted they would go
on from time to time to increase the number.
With respect to the large sum paid for jpeace to
the Algerines, being a proof that this intended
armament had had no effect upon that power, he
betiered there was another cause which advanced
the price of that peace ; it was owing to obstacles
which came front a quarter whence they had no
right to expect them. For his part, he had heard
no sTgnment which convinced him it was not
proper to finish the whole of the frigates.
The oaestion was now put and negatived.
llr. Oali^tid then moved to strike out three
and insert two; that is, lo have only two firigatea
built. The motion yia.^ negatived, 44 against 43.
motion was proposed and carried, to strike
be clause enabling the President to finish
remainder of the three frigates when the
price of materials aad bbor should be lowered,
or the public good should reqnire it, and to insert
one in its steady directing the PaEBiDBitT to sell
such of the perishable materials as remained, and
to lay up in store the rest for a Aiture use.
•greed to.
The Committee rose, and the House proceeded,
after clearing the galleries, to a consideration 'of a
confidential communication from the Prbbidenv,
received on Friday last. ' -
Fbidat, April 8.
Mr. Harpeb said, he wished to replace the resct-
uiion which he laid upon the table some days
ago. relative to carrying the Treaties lately con-
cruded into effect, with one somewhat differently
worded, which was accordinglyread, and laid upon
the table.
Mr. HabpbB said, he thou^t it was necessary
that some notice should be given upon all import-
ant subjects before they were taken up ; be there-
fore informed the House, that on Monday, he
should move to bring forward the subject of appro-
riating the means of carrying into effect the late
NAVAL ARMAMENT
The House again resolved itself into a Com-
. jittoe of the Whole on the act supplementary to
an act, entitled " An act to provide a Naval Arm-
ament" and af^er a few oDeervatioos, the Com-
mittee rose and reported the bill. The House
took upthe amendments.
Mr. W. Smitb again moved to strike out tht
first clause, in order to introduce one to have aH
the frigates finished instead of three ; bnt which,
after a eoosideraUe debate, was negatived, by tbe
yeas and nays being taken upon it, as follow :
TiAs— ThMdomsBa&ay, Abtaham Baldwin, Dnid
Bvd, Lemuel Beaton, Thomas Blodnt, RidtMd BienI,
Nathnn Bryan, DeoqiMj Borgea, SaJnnsl J. Cabell,
Gabriel Christie, Thoma* CUiborns, John Cloptoo,
Joabua Cnit, Isaac Galea, Jeramiah Ciabb, Samoel
Eule, WiUiam Flodley, Jesw FianUin, Albert OalU-
tin, Williaai B. Qile^ James Gillwpie, Andraw Oren,
WiQiaa Barry Grove, Wade Hampton, Cirter B.
Harrison, Robert Goodloe Huper, John Hsthom, Jon-
athan N. Havens, James Holland, Oeorge Jadnon,
HatOew Locke, S«mnsl Lyman, William Lymsa,
Samuel Mad^, Nathaniel Macon, Jamm Madison,
TatM, Philip Van 0«ilandt,Jaaq^ B. Tanmm, Aim-
hHD VoBitK Jehn 'Wmta^ and Rkhaid Wbo.
'UiSr-^MJamiD Boune, 'naophUaa Biadbnty,
ual Buck, WHHan Oeoni, OaMga Daa% Auil
~ ~ ' Giftait, NidMdas (»■
Oeapai , <
Oaiusl I
laBeiideii
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HISTOBT OF CONGRESS.
Naval Armamtnt.
[ApBiL.179e.
Willbm HiodnuD. John WUkw Kitten, Edward LW-
faigitoii, Fiuuii MalboDC, FTederick A. Muhlenbecg.'
'Williun V*iu MDinj, Aleiutdci D. Oir, Theodore
Sedgwick, Nathanial Smilh, William Smith, Thomu
6pri«g.
Thatcher
Mr. W. Smitm said, in case of a war, muck of
iheit DHtioDftt streoglh would depend on ptira-
leen. Ho believed merchaat thipv, as dow con-
stnicied, were very ill suited for war. If Govern-
ment could encourage merchants to build veuels
in such s mauDer as to answer the puiposes of
merchandise, and at the same time to be easily
converted into vessels of war, he was of opinioa
it woold be of great service to the country. It
was, he confessed, a new idea in the House, but
as there were gentlemen in the House who were
better acquainted with the nature of ship build-
ing than he pretended to be, he should be glad to
heat their opinion on the subject, and for that
naroose, be proposed a clause similar to the fol-
lowing, to be added to the bill :
"BtU tnatttd, ^ That the nun of per ton
ahall be ellowed to every owner of a ahip, being a citi-
len of the United States, which ihsll be so conitmcted
(to be determined b; the Collector of the port &om
whence tbe aaid VMiet sails) as 10 be leadilj converti-
ble into ■ vessel of war ; provided the owoei give bond,
with snfGdent secoiitir, in case said vessel be diiposad
of to a foreign Power, oi dtiien of a (breign country,
In refond tbe said boouty."
Hr. QoODHUG raid this was a new idea. He
■aid vessels for war and vessels for commerce
were built upon very different constructions, and
he thought it almost impossible to combine the
two together. Merchant ships had an upper
deck, vessels of war an open deck; and he be-
lieved it would almost take as much lime to con-
Tcrt a merchant ship into a vessel of war, as to
build a new ship. Besides, Collectors beins un-
acquainted with the bosiness, would be liable to
be imposed upon. Not one merchant veuel in a
thousand sailed sufficiently fast for vessels of war.
Mr. Pabker thought this subject might be dis-
cussed on a future occasion, if the gentleman
would propose the measure in tbe form of a reso-
tulion ; it would encourage ship building, as a vcs-
■el so constructed would not carrv mote than half
the goods which merchant vessels carry. To at-
tempt to introduce tbe clause into this bill would
impede its progress. He hoped, therefore, it
would be withdrawn for the present, and intro-
duced hereafter in the shape he had suggested.
Mr. SwAHWicK said, gentlemen called the pre-
sent proposiiioa a new one; but it was by no
means new. lu Great Britain this piineiple bad
long since been adopted. She had given a bounty
on vessels, in some degree similar to the one now
proposed, on their becoming armed vesiels. He
■els had been converted into jn-ivateers. The
West India trade was carried on in swift sailing
rnwls; and Tirginia pilot-bests bad frequently
been sold to the bellioeTent Powers for veascls c^
war, on account of their being remarkably swift
sailers. He thought jt would be good policy ia
Government to ofier a bounty, as a motive to mer-
obanls to build their vessels so as to answer the
double purpose which was now in view. No one
can suppose that they shall always be in profound
peace. The first danger to be apprehended, in
case of hostilities, was along shore. The cities
of immense value, and large agricultural houses,
lay prostrate to a foreign country — for the House
had not hinted at any water defence for them.
The oniy alternative talked of, were privateers or
letters of marque.
The British vessels to India and the Mediter-
rauean were exposed to danger from piratical cor-
sairs—tbe carrying of guns was found expensive,
Government therefor^ ifotmerly gave a bounty on
tonnage to all vessels who carried a certain num-
ber of guns. Many a man was saved from slave-
ry by this measure, who otherwise might have
been taken by a small row-boat. The more, he
said, he investigated commercial affairs, the more
he saw the riches of that source ; and he was not
sure, if duly examined, whether navigation would
not be found as productive a source of wealth to
the country almost as aitricultuie itself. He then
took a further viewof commerce and agricnliare
and insisted that their interests must rise or fall to-
He hoped they would not reject the proposi-
tion before them, as it might have an eKcellent
tendency to increase their strength. It was a good
way to deliberate uponathing.and not cast it away
at once. They received a great revenue from ton-
nage, and if they were to return pail of it again
for this purpose, he thought it would be a good
Elan ; and unless.^nlLemen could point out some
etier way in which the nation could be secured,
he should give it his support, as it would be pur-
chasing security at a low rate. It was also an ex-
cellent provision that the bounty received should
be returned, in case a vessel was sold to a foreign
Power. At present, he said,,their timber and other
raw materials were carried off to support and ali-
ment foreign navies, and no proposal was offered
to prevent their being carried away, and ourselves
suffering hereafter Tor the want of them. He
could not say whether the present proposition
would be best connected with the bill ; but if it
WB! not, he hoped it would be put into such a form
as to come unaer discussion on a future day.
Mr. MAnieoN thought there were many strong
objections to tbe present measure. In the first
place, he conceived, with the gentlemanfrom Mas-
sachusetts, that it would not oe easy to construct
vessels so as to make them easily convertible into
vessels of war, without sacrificing tbe economy of
navigation. A vessel built in such a manner, at
the same expense, would not carrv the same car-
Si. Theamendment itself seemed 10 contemplate
is, by offeriog a bounty, A question would arise,
whether the bounty given would be equal to the
loss with respect to the construction to the mer-
chant, or whether it would not be B greater ex-
pente to Oovernment than the advantage which
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fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
AFBl^ 1796.]
Naval ArmoituTit.
[H.t
could be derived rrom tbe mcuure troold wmrraot 7
It would be going ioto a plan in lipe of peace
that vould coDstamly keep war in riew. He ob-
jected to the irameQse discretion proposed to be
Tested incustom-house oBicers; it would be agreat
discrelioD to be placed any where. A gentlemau
bad meoiioued VirgiDta pilot boats as benl filled
for war and trade. If ko, he said they would re-
commeDd. theouelves. All that reiaaiDed was to
make the adrmniage erident. Tbe subject was
new, and it could hardly be supposed that such a
meaoure could ba decided upon immediately. It
woold be best to lay the propotal on the table.
Mr.HibLBOCBB hoped loeclause proposed would
be withdrawn. Its exleal could not at present be
seen, aad it was improper to be brought forward
in the laal stage of a bill. Were all their ships to
be turned into prirateers'? Much iofonnation
was necessary to be had before such a measure
was adopted. It ought to have been brought for-
ward more early in the session, that proper in-
quiries might be made on the subject^ at present
uiey had important business pressing upon them,
which ought not to give way to any new matter.
Mr. WiLLiAHa said the pro|msitioa made by the
gentleman from South Carolina deneived consid-
eratkon. It was founded upon a doctrine siinilar to
that which he himself bad advaticed, and he
thought the best plan which eoutd be entered into
by the United States, by way of defence; but
btiild Teasels of war, and to go into this meaau. _
also, was nnnecetsary. If they were to agree to
thia ]>roposiiion, and not to that for buildia? frig-
ates, it would hare the beat effect. All their ves-
sels would not be built in this way, as the gentle-
man last up had supposed ; because every one
would be left to adopt the plan or not. He thought
this plan far preferable to building ships of war ;
there were no officers, no sailors, no materials to
proTide. It would would aUo encourage »hip-build-
ing. He did not consiiler it necessary to i;o into
the building of a navy for this country. Fortifi-
caiioDs, floating batteries, and vessels of this kind,
would be a sufficient defence for them.
Mr. Habpeh thought it improper to go u
question at present. Many objections might be
nrgcd against it, and it could not receire a propei
decision without more discus.><ion than they could
now give it. Ii ought not, therefore, to be enter-
ed upon i for though the practice was known in
Great Britain, it was not known here. It should
be broogbt forward as a separate proposition, and
not make part of a bill about to be passed. He
did not wish the proposition to be rejected ; but
that his colleague would withdraw it. and lay it
on the table in the form of a resdutioQ.
Mr. EiTTiHa said, that an Irishman proposed
to make all earl-hones into running horset; and
gentlemen wished to conTett mercnantashipa in-
to shipa of war. He tbought there were many
objeeuons to the nropoattion. and that it «o«ld not
be carried into eflecL
Mr. MoBRAYwould only makea single remark;
The preanmed novelty of the principle coutendad
for, was one of tbe objections to it It was not a
new priBciida aveaiii that Hooae. Tluiaewho
present when the Srai bill tor the building
of six frigates was nndet consideration, will ra>
member tnat he suggested this idea, which he read
to the House, in a clause almost copied from an
English statute, hebelieved in Charle^lheSecond's
time ; he remembered that this idea, though not
adopted, was often alluded to in debate by those
who opposed the frigates, as a valuable sutntituie,
and a gentleman from Virginia argued ingenious-
ly that it was a mode ot uoiting the habits and
pasaioDS of individual enterprises with the system
of public defence and the cheapest mode. Now,
according to this bill, we lose three of the frigates
and this- plan would come in as a valuable substi-
tute for the frigates which ere discontinued.
Mr. W. Smith said, he made the proposition
with diffidence, because the subject was import-
novel; every gentleman, however, who
had spoken on the subject seemed to think it pre-
sented some favorable aspects. But it was oh-
jecled to as being unseasonably brought forward.
He himself did not see the impropriety. They
'ere now considering the subject of a Naval Arm-
nent. His provision contemplated vessels of war,
ilhout the expense of building them, by giving
bounty to encourage merchants to adopt a par-
cularconstrnctionm building their vessels. This
-as not certainly unconnected with the present
subject. Nor was this the last reading of ine bill;
it would have also to undergo discussioD in the
Senate. He, therefore, thought some remarks
which had been made upon his motion unfounded.
Gentlemen were also mistaken iorespectto the dif-
ficulty of building vessels to answer thft purposes
of trade and War. It was a fact that the English
Government had converted during the last veai
some of their East India ships into 64-gUD ships,
and they were said to be amongst their best ves-
sels. Theii East India vessels ganerally carried,
it was true,guD9, though they were built for trade.
Probably vessels emp^yed in the. Mediterranean
trade should be so constructed. Vessels employ-'
ed to the West Indies, they had heard, were ver^
fit for the purpose, and the English East India
■hips at present carry guns. So that thereare three
descriptions which might easily be converted into
vessels of war. Gentlemen had spoken as if it
were intended that all their vessels shoald be so
constructed. It wascalculated that they had600,000
Ions of shipping sailing from their ports, 400,000
of which were square-riga^d vessels. It waa
supported that the number of aqnare-rigged vessels
was about 3500. If one-6fih only of these were
constructed in the way he proposed, would it not
be of great advantage? But if their commerce
continued to increase, in the way it bad done of
late, they might have 1000 vessels of this desorip-
An objection had been made with respect to the
modification o' his clause. It was objected that
so much power should be placed in Collectors; bat
it must be supposed that before a Collector return-
ed any vessel as entitled to the bounty, he would
employ proper persons to examine the construc-
tion ot^sueh vessel. Individaals who built vessels
could not be injured, beeanse il woald be ■ mat-
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.ofR.]
StaU Omemmentfir TTamatte.
[April, 179S.
tet of choiee, Bud if tke bonoty wu not loppcmeil
equal toanf loss which might be sasuined by lucb
T«s«dt not being able to carry bo mnch cawii
they wcwld not lall in with the proposal. The
gcnilemoB from Virginia [Mi. Madibom,] nid i(
ms bad policy to bcreaae their expense* in time
of peace to prepare for war. On the contrary, he
believed it a wuepolicy. Andif thepresent pro-
Cl should cost the nation 20, 30, or 50,000 dot-
k year, would it not be a great ad Tan ta^ to
have MOorSOO veaselsofthiasort ready tocripple
the trade of an enemy in case of warl Would
not the knowledge of thii capacity in them, be a
coQiIant check upon'' nations diapMed to be their
enemies 1 He belieTcd it would. But as gentle-
men seemed to wiah that the consideration of the
piopositioQ should be postponed for (be jireient, he
dioold withdraw it, and bring it forward on a fo-
Mr. Gallatin again mored to strike out tiiree
frigates, for the purpose of inserting two; which
was negatired — yeas 25, nays 57, as follows :
Tws.^-Hewn. Thsodoroc Buley, Abrahun Bald-
win, Nathan Br7ut,DeitipM7Biugei, Gabriel Chrutie,
John Glopton, Jo^ua. Coit, Isaac C<dea, Jeremiah
Crabb, Albert Gsllatin, Willkm B. Giiea. Bogei Gri>-
wold, Wade HampUn, Carter B. Haniaon, Jonathan
N. Haiens, Jamea Holland, George Jackson, Matthew
Locke, WiHiatn Lyman, Bamual Maclsj, Andrew
Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Imel Smith,
a&d John WilUanu.
NaiSi. — Fisher Amea, David Bard, Lemuel Benton,
Thomas Blount, Benwrnin Boome, Tbeophilus Biad-
', Richard Brent, Danid Bock, Thontaa^ Claiborne,
tiniy, Richard
WilHain Coo
jamin Goodbue, Chamicey Goodrich, Andrew Gregg,
Oeo(|(e HancM^, Robert Ooodloe Harper, Thomaa
Balt^, John Hathom, John Heath, Daftiel Hnster,
Utomas Benderson, Jamea HiUbooiB, William Hmd-
man, John WOkca Kitten, Edward Lrringston, Bam-
«al Lyman, NalhanU Ma«oa, Francis Malbone, Fiede-
lick A. MtfilenbaTf, William Vans Mnirar, Alasandn
D. On, J<Aa Pb8^ Jonah Paifcer, John PattoD, JAn
Smith, John Swanwick, Zwhaniah Swift, Absalran
Taton, Mark Thompson, John &. Van Allen, Philip
Van Cortlandt, Joaepb B. Vammn, and Feleg Wada-
woi^
The other amendment, to add to ihe bill a ne
•eetion, was then read, as follows :
" And be it fitrAiT mactcd. That the President
die United States be, and be is hereby, anthomAd
eanse to beaold, aodipart of the peridiable materials as
MM not hs wanted fiir compleloig die Ibree irigatea,
and to cause the sniphu of the other materiala to be
■My kept far the ttatnra uaa of the United States."
The amendment was agreed to, and the bill or-
dered to a third reading.
STATE OOVBHlfMBWT POR TiNNESSEB.
QmikBun of tht atnate, mnd
of the HmtMt of JteproaifaMwe .-
By an act of Congreas paaaed on the 30th of May,
ITM, it was declared that the inhahitantt oi (he Tent-
(my of the United Stales SonA of the river OU*
sboold enjoy aU the priTik«es, benefits, and advantages,
aet forth in the ordintnee of Congress for the goTon-
men{ of the Territory of the United Btatea NorlhweK
of Ae lirer Ohio ; and that the government Ol said
Territory Soath of Ihe Ohio should be similar to that
whidi was then eierciaed hi the Teiribny Northwest
the OhiOi except ao far as was otherwiae pirorided
_ the conditimis eipreased in an act of Congreaa pssa-
ed the ad of April, 1790, entitled " An act to acct^ a
nioa of the claims of the Stale of North Cartdina to
nxtain diatriet of Western tenitory."
Among the priTUegea, benefits, and advantages, Iboa
iruied to tlie inhsbltanU of the Territory South of the
>er Ohio, appear to be the right of forming a penoa-
int Constitution and Slate Govemmetit, and of ad-
lasion, si a Stale, by iU delegates, into tbe Congrew
of the United Btatea, on an equal footing wiUi the
original Slates, in all respects wblteTsr, when it ebonld
have therein siity Ibouaand ^-ee inhsbitenia : Prorided
the Consdmtion and Government so to be formed
should be Republican, and in confbimity to tile prino-
piM contained in the articlee of die aaid ardinance.
As pcoob of the several reqmsitea to entitle the Te^
ritory Boudiof the river Ohioto be admitted, as a Stale,
into the Union, GovemM Blennt haa (raiMBitled a re-
turn of the ennmvaliDn of its inhaUmnta, and a pnn(ed
any of the Censlitntion and Anm of OovaniDeiit oa
wmeh they have apeed ; whidi, with his IctteiB accom-
Banvins die same, an herewith laid befcve ConaTaa
*^' G. WASHINGTON.
U>iT» Statm, Apriii, 17H.
The above communication was read, and re-
ferred to a select committee of five memljeB.
Parker, of the Gommitiee of Conference,
appointed to confer with the Senate on their dis-
agreement respecting certain amendments pro-
posed and iosiGled upon by the Senate, and dii-
agreed to by the House of Representatives, to the
biil for establishing trading-houses with the Indian
tribes, reported that a conference had been held,
and the Senate had consented to recede from their
amendments. They proposed a farther amend-
ment to the bill, thai instead of six thousand dol-
lars being allowed to the agents and clerks, eight
thousand dollars should be allowed. The report
and bill from the Senate were laid on the table.
The House took up the resolution laid upon the
taUe some days ago by Mr. Sedowicx, for estab-
lishing a mode of Caking evidence in contested
elections, and referred it to the Committee of
Elections to make a report thereon.
The House WBnt into a Committee of the
Whole on the bill for farther noTiding for the
Public Credit and for the reductmn of the Pubbc
Debt ; end, afiei haTtng gone through it, ^
House took it up, and ordered it to be engrossed
for a third reading to-morrow.
The HoHse then wrot into a Committee of the
Whole, on the bill for regtilaling trade and iotet-
course with the Indian trities, and after some de-
hMe en the i^Me wUoh direct! the fbifeiune s(
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893
HISTORY OF C0NOR£S3.
Al■BI^ 1796.]
Naval AmuuMM.
[H.OTfc.
lands in certaia coses, the Gommiltee rose, a£d
asked leave to «( again.
SATnaDAT, April 9.
The bill foe makiDg Turlher provisioii Tor Pub-
lic Credit.' and for lEe reduction of the Public
Debt, was read a third time, and pasaet
A bill declaring the assent of Coil
act to be passed by the 3 tate of Massachusetts, for
' Uyinz a certain tonnage upon vesaeb navigating
the Kennebuok river^ to aefraf the eipense of
erecting a pier therein, was read twice, and re-
ferred to a Committee of the Whole on Monday
week.
NAVAL ARMAMENT.
The bill snpplementarr to an act for providing
B Naval Armament, was read a third time, an?
passed.
Mr. HoLLAHn opposed the passing of the bill ii
a speech of some fenglh, in which be very forcibly
nrged the impolicy of the measure. F ' ' ' '
that two or three trigstes would only sei
voke attack withoutlieiag able to make i
and instead of gaining respect would excite
tempt from foreigners. He objected to themes
also on account of the veij great expense it would
be attended with at a time, he said, when they
were much straitened for money.
On motion of Mr. Williams, the yeas and nays
were taken upon the passing of the bill, and re-
' suited — yeas 98, nays 23, as follows :
Nats. — Abrahsm Baldnin, David Bsid, Lamoel
Banton, Thaophilus BrwIbtUT, Ricbsid Binnt, Daniel
Back, Thomsi Clubome, Williun Cooper, Jeroausli
^•bb, GmiTge Dent, Ssmusl B«rl«, Abiel Foster,
Dwight Foster, Jsbs« FnuiUin, Eiekiel Gilbert, Jsmes
Oillemie, NioholM Oilmin, Heiuy Glan, Beniwnin
Ocodhno, ChsuiK^ Goodrich, Andrew (htgg, ttoger
Oiiswold, Gtaige Hmcotk, Cuter B. Hsnuon, Robert
Gtndloe Hsiper, Thomu Hsrtley, John Hasth, Duiel
Heisto, TheiaMM Bendenon, Jtunn HilOunise, WilliBin
HtndmaD, Jcibn Wilkei Kitter^ Edwud Livingrton,
Muthew Locke, Suiael Lvmui, Nathuuel Msoon,
James MmUksd, Pianci* MaOMne, John MilMge, Ftede-
ilek A. MnhlenbCTf , WilliHD Tuw Mun», J<Aa Nl-
oiott^ Jt^ p,g^ Jomab Puker, Jdu nMui, John
Reed, ThaodoM Sedffwiek, Join B. 8hMiiiime, Je»-
■uafa Bnith, Nalkaalol amith, WaUam Sniih, Thwaas
^!pnn> John Bwuwkk, ZeplMniah Bwifi, AfaMlom
Titom, OeorBo ^tVteber, Richud ThoBM, Huk
Ihompwn, Joba E. Vu Allen, Philip Vu Cottlaudt,
Josrah B. Vsnnoi, and Polog Wadnnath.
niii,— Theodofus Bailsy, Thomas Bkmol, Nadun
fpn, DonpMV Bnisei, SMnuel J. Cabell, Gabriel
plinstie. John Clopton, Joshna Cmt, Uaac Colas, Al-
bert Qdlatitt, William B. GiUa,WBda HaimMon, Jona-
BU y. Havens, JaoM Holland, George Jaduon, WU-
nuD LynaQ, Samuel Haclay, Antbo^ New, Frands
^**tMi. SobMt Hutberfbrd, Israel Bmhh, Abraham
VtnaUa, and Jrim WilMama.
BXPOHTATION OP BREADBTirPPS.
Mr.CnairrtE said there was a great scarcity of
Indian com iti the coimtry, and when he conai-
dered that it would yet be nine months before
the reiura of a new crop, he believed it would be
necessary to take steps to' prevent, for a limited
time, its exportation, as many poor persons de-
pended upon it alroout wholly ior food. He there-
tore proposed' the following resolution to the eoD-
aideratioQ of the Honse :
Sctohed, That a committee be ^ipainted to in~
for months."
Ordered to lie on the table.
INTERCOURSE WITH INDIANB.
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole on the bill for regulating in-
tercourse with tfaelndiantribes,aad the motion for
striking out the clause which enacts a forfeiture
of all right to the land ceded to the Indians by the
late Treaty, in case any person entitled to any
right in it shall go ujpon it for the purpose of
marking it out, dtc., being under consideration,
Mr. HoLLAKD said, he would make some obser-
vations on what had been advanced in ppposilion
to the amendment, and afterwards attempt to
show to the Committee . why the amendment
should prevail. By way of objection, it had been
said by a gentleman from Maryland, [Mr. Csabb]
that this question was agitated fully in the com-
mittee tfaat'prepated the bill, and that they had
decided in iavot of the clause. Mr. H. did not
know why the discretion of the' committee was
menlioneu. unlets it was to prevent investiga-
tion-; that ne thought it his duty not implicitly to
submit to their opinion, not would he be governed
by it on this occasion, nor in any other case, but
would investigate the principles contained in the
bill, and wonld then act according to what he
conceived to be his duly. The same gentleman,
in reply to his coUewue from North Oaiolina,
asked, what could induce persons to go into the
Indian country and mark lands 1 In addition to
what had been said by his colleague, he observed
that he knew persons who went into the Indian
country to maae discoveries, having no other
claim, and that brokers of this city were then in
possession of those discoveries proposing for sale.
A gentleman from Connecticnt said, the exist-
ing law was equal to this bill, if this clause was
struck out. If that gentleman had attended to
the other provisions contained in the bill, he might
have saved himself the assertion ; but as it was a
naked assertion, he would not compare tbe bill
th the former law, the Gommiltee being ac-
quainted with both. But the same gentleman
[Mr. H ILL a 00 be] had asserted that the claimants
bad only a pre-emptive right, and that the Indiana
had the fee simple of the lands. This assertion.
Mr. H. said, be «aa authorized to deny. It had
,_ _ rieinally
.-theKingi he wasIordparamounLand alllajuu
not immetuately dispeaed of by the Crown, with-
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.opR.]
htlertowe vilh the Indiant.
[Apbil. 1796.
ID his eilensire domiaioDS, were Tested in him.
The sa7Bges of these Frorincea^ when unJei the
British (&Teritmeiit, were coaeidered a conquer-
ed people, and tenants at will. And hence it was,
that they wece unable to convey, unless previ-
oosly admitted by the Crown, and then their title
was their right of occupancy, aad not the dignity
of a fee simple, the King's grant being necessary
to vest the ree.
In this situation were the ten are of the Indians
nnder His Majesty, so far as his Provinces had
circumscribed them within the respecliTe charters
of this country. At the Treaty of Peace in 1783,
it was acknowledged that the respective Slates
were the free srvereigns of all the lands contain-
ed within (heir Provincial charters, which placed
them in the precise situation with respect to the
fee that His Majesty had previously done in the
fee simple; therefore, all the lands contained
within the charter of North Carolina belonged
to Government, or to the people of that Stale;
the Indians, therefore, were tenants at will, and
To prove ihis^ also, they have ever been incapa-
ble of conveymg their estate, not even for life,
without leave of Government. Inheritance and
alienation were incident to a fee. All persons
can convey the title they possess, but they possess
no tide more than in villanage.
The Slate of North Carolina, therefore, viewing
themselves as lords of the soil, opened a land office
to dispose of the unappropriated lands to her citi-
wbich (hey expressly prohibited any entries
made, and sold the remainder to ner c'tizens, to
discharge the obligations she was under to them,
as well as the Continent in general, for their per-
sonal lervices in procuring the independence of
that State against the force of those savages, in
conjunction with Tories and Britons: and how
shall it be forfeited, in case they attempt to mark
those lines which were Wearing out by time?
Shall those deserving citizens suffer a punish-
ment due only by our Constitution to acts of
treason 1
But, in order to make this go down, it is smooth-
ed over, and said, those citizens have only a pre-
emptive title ; and it is asked, if they are not vo-
lunteers, why did they go over ? This might be
asked as an apology for all punishments, however
enormous they may he.
It was said ny MorUeaqaieii, and many writers, '
that sanguinary laws were of the worst kind ; that
they are ever hadly executed. If ever a time
should happen that they were necessary, it would
now be improper to adopt the measure, when they
would operate on the best citizens, and on those
thai had l<Hig been deprived of their right by the
measures and operations of Government. He
bad before said, those citizens had made a fair
contract with the Slate of North Carolina, and a
full payment fur those lands. He would now beg
leave to attend to the contract made by the State
of North Carolina with the General Government,
in behalf of her citizens. Here Mr. H. read that
□art of the deed executed by the Senators of that
Slate to the General Government, in which it
was stipulated that no obstruction should be made
to the obtaining the patents, pursuant to the eit-
tries lawfully made ; and that the Government of
the State, for the time beine, should be enabled
to execute a grant to the said lands, in the &ame
manner as though that cession had not been made.
He then read the act of acceptance of the deed,
fi;om which he said it was plain, that the faith of
the General Government was explicitly pledged
to enable these citizens to survey those lands, and
to authorize the Governor to execute the grants.
This being the ease, notwithstanding the General
Government, by Treaty, save those lands to the
Indianf, in express contradiction to their plain and
original contract, it must follow that the General
Government is bound to extinguish this Indian
claim, and put the injured citizens in possession
of their realized property, which they had so long
been kept out of, and so justly bought.
The Government had power to treat her citi-
zens in this manner, hut if they do, what will be
the consequence? Will not their minds be irri-
tated? Will they have reason to love that Go-
vernment which pays no regard to their sacred
rights? Fourteen years had elapsed, and they
had not yet been requited for the services they
had done their country, and their realized property
secured to those Indians that had been the worst
of enemies. Uoder these reflecttons, what might
tbev not do, more especially when we annex a
forieilure of this realized property ?
The gentleman from Connecticut said, that
treason in all countries had been undefined. In
this he was not correct: but, he said, it is right so
to'gel hold of a large property; he hoped he did not
mean to apply this to the inattention of tlieir pe-
nal laws. In all countries, treason had been thought
the highest crime a citizen could commit ; and, in
this country, our Constitution prohibits a forfeit-
ure of real property longer than life, whilst the
forfeiture in this bill is unqualified. Laws work-
ing forfeiture, according to the spirit of our Go-
vernment, ought to be avoided. Many of the Stales
have adopted lenient penal codes, and have found
the salutary effects. He hoped this would not
have admittance in our penal code.
Mr. NioHOLAB said, tliere were many reasons
for striking out this clause. If the penalty was
infiicted, It was, perhaps, irrevocable. There
might be circumstances in which the penalty
might be inflicted, which would call for a mitiga-
tion of it; but there would be no powvr ol miti-
gation under this act. It seemed ai if these peo-
ple were considerable sufferers, and that they had
a claim, either upon the Slate of CaroUaa, or
upon llie United Slates. Would it not, then, be
hard upon them, whilst their claim was scarcely
heard, to make so severe a penalty aghast themt
It would irritate them very highly, and 'would
unite them against the Government. If they had
behaved improperly, they had bad strong incen-
tives to it, and so far from its being justifiable to
increase their punishment, he thought they ought
to be treated with delicacy. IT the property was
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS,
Apbil, 1796.]
Itttercourae v>ith the Indiant.
[H.opR.
llietn, the Treaty couTd not do theit
At \oog as it wax an unsettled question, whether
■ Treaty could dispose of privete property, and
whether some compensation ought not to be made
in such cases, the penalty was extremely dispro-
portionate.
Mr. Cooper observed, that the idea advanced by
the gentleman from North Carolina, that Indian
nations could not hold the fee of the countries
they possess, was new ; but the idea that
Zens can acquire the fee of their landi
their consent, was not otiiy new, but contrary to
natural justice. The individuals who hold the
pre-emption ri^ht of those lands, took them sub-
ject to the Icdiaa claim, and they must wait until
It is convenient for Congress to extioguish their
title by Treaty. Neither the law now proposed,
the Treaty of HolstoDj nor the act of North Ca-
rolba, put those individuals in a worse siiuatron
than ihey were when they 6rst obtained their
warrants. They took them, subject to this in-
"mbrance, and if they cannot be restrained by
ten by a few daring individuals. This bill was
to preserve peace on the frontiers; and if me
who hold warrants within their lines as settli
by Treaty, will, in violation of law, take posses-
sion of their land, ibey ought and must forfeir
their claims.
Great part of the country of Ontario was non
selline, he eaid, subject to the Indian claim ; bu.
should those purchasers, or holders of the pre-
emption right, attempt to take possession of those
lands before a Treaty is made with the natives,
and thereby subject the frontiers tn the ravages
of an Indian war, a forfeit of such claim, said Mr.
C, is too small a punishment for such offenders ;
he, therefore, hoped the clause would not be struck
Mr. MiLLEDUC was in favor of striking out
the clause. A forfeiture, like the one proposed,
was contrary, he said, to the Constitution of the
Uaited States, and he hoped it would be aban-
Mr. Crabb snoke in favor of the clause. It
would nrevent tnat kind of abuse which was apt
to kindle war on the frontier, by a forfeiture of
their title to the land. If thev had any claim
upon the United States, he would have iQera sa-
tisfied. Whenever their cllizeni went oVer the
boundary lines, war was the consequence. These
citizenK, he said, had nothing more than an unei-
ilnguished pre-emptive right, and he believed all
they were bound to do was, to guaranty to them
lh,fir right whenever the Indians quilted the land.
Gentlemen .*poke. he said, as if Gorernment were
bound In go and drive the Indians back by force.
It was said that the forfeiture conteui plated by
the present bill, was contrary to the Constiiuiior.
He was confident it was not. If the clause
wai struck out, the bill would be of no use; it
would stand as before. And letters bad becu re-
ceived from the frontiers, that except lurther
means be taken to preserve the peace, it would
not be preserved.
Mr. HiLLHonSB said, that the forfeiture pro^
posed would, in many instances, be a less forteit-
ure than personal property. By our revenue law^
an East India ship and cargo, of $100,000 valuq
was lijble to forfeiture for a violation of the law.
Can any one say that these forfeitures are not
greater than that of a pre-emption right to Indian
land, which can never operate untif the Indians
shall relinquish, bv some conveyance or cession,
their title, which they are at liberty to make or
notj'as they shall think proper? He believed,
that though the Indians were men in uncivilizetl
life, and aifiered in their customs and habits from
ourselves, yet they were justly entitled to the
landb which they pOHsessed. Holding out a con-
trary idee to the Indians, viz : that they had no
right to the lands which they were upon, bad
causpd great alarm among them, and was, m his
opinion, one cause of the Indiaa wars. Indeed,
this rigtit and title to. the lands had been expressly
recognised by the United States in the Treaties
they had made with them. The Qod of Nature
had given them the land, and he was sorry to heal
any gentleman on that floor call their right to it
in question. He would ask, who were the pro-
prietors of this country previous to its being known
to civilized nations (as they were called?) Were
not those peoitle t And had they not always beea
in the peaceable enjoyment of it ? Who gave us
a light to call their title in que!<tion. or forcibly to
thrust them out? They bad, he'said, suffered
enough from the fraud and violence of those who,
since the discovery of America, had been seeking
to dispossess them of their lands, and he hoped no
one in that House would wish to take from them
what little of their inheritance still remained in
their posMssion.
He had, he said, been charged with advocatine
the cause of the Indians; but he little regarded
what was said on that head ; his object was not
only quiet to the Indians, but security, also, to the
peaceable, well-disposed inhabitants on the fron-
tiers, who bad families, and were eiposed to the
ntment and retaliation of the savages: these
e not the people whn would incur the penal-
of this law: it was intended to restrain those
daring inhabitants, who declare that, in defiance
of Treaties and laws, they will go into the Indian
lands, a circumstance which cannot fail to excite
the resentment and retaliation of the Indians,
which will fall, not upon the offenders, for they
will be no more to be found than the wolves, but
upon the innocent frontier inhabitants. their wives
and childien. The charge, Mr. H. said, of being
a friend to the Indians, had been made, not only
upon him, but a similar charge. Governor Blount
says, in his letter published a few weeks since in
the newspapers, had been made upon all who ad-
vocated measures which tended to promote the
true interest of the frontier inhabitants. [He here
read the following extract from Governor Blount's
letter:]
You, as nell aa myself, are arnmbto that, in the
days oflhe folly of tlii* country, (hat whoever should
attempt to preserve peace wLth the Inilianii, wu ia-
itantlj denoouced as an Indian &iend, and the cry ao-
.dbyGoogle
•*»
EUSTfffiT 0^ CONOSESS.
>00
B.orRJ
iKUnounA mtk tht hdiau.
[A™im7»
CdtdiiitlrnfMdagateitUM; twtIi4oiM,Mlwiihlhe
$p*f i»J* >ra in a dsgn* oist; I wuh I could mj
a[iila,theii thara would be nonocMutj ibr me lo paa, oi
jBH to eiecate ilui order. It u, howefei, not lo bs de-
iled, tfamt he who prcMrree peue with Indiuu Ihsreby
■erree the Indiuu ; bat it >■ eqaellj true that, bj that
aet, he, in a much greater degree, aerrea hit Ulow-dti-
Mn*. Let any frontier dtfaen take a retzoapectite new
of ao Indian frontier war, half pe»ee and half war, the
wont of ^ ware, and there hai been and a war kept ap in
Wa eonnti; MBce the DedaiatioD of bdepeadenoe nntfl
th« pi«aent peaee, and mmt ha not in trath dedaM that
ttM opemtioB haa been the uore draadftil and dirtreaa-
■■t to the fraaUar dtiMtii I Troa, the Indiana have
had tlMir aMttsnnga too, bat did diat alleviate tlia raAr-
igga of lb* ftoDtin olinDa 1"
The letter from OoTernoT Bloantheiaid, which
aecompanied the Message of the PaEaioENT on
this suDJect, iofo/med ui that there were ■ nam'
be[ of people who were determiDed, anjr law or
Treaty to the contrary not with standing, to take
posseasioD of the iDdion lands, aod that nolhing
tlut a superior military force would prevent them',
a force which must subject the Umted States to
ffreat expeaoe j and shaU we be squeamish about
forfEitittg the pre-emption right of such people to
Indian land, which is not a title, but a right only
c^ becoming in preference to all others, owners
of the land, or some future grant or cession to be
made by the Indians, who are the present propri-
etors 1 If the amendment took place, or the law
did not pass in its present form, he should, he said,
wholly despair of being able to preserve peace on
the froniien, or preventing Indian wars.
Mr. Madison said, it was not necessary to in-
vestigate the Indian mode of occupancy in oppo-
sition to that of civilized society. Toe natives
are understood, by the nations of Europe possessins
territories on this Continent, to have a qualifiea
property only in the land. If they had an un-
qualified title they could not be prevented from
ceding to foreigners jbeir lands lying within the
limits of the United States. In that point of
view, he thought the doctrine of the gentleman
last up particularly objectionable. He thought
the clauae of the Constitution wbich had been re-
ferred to, was worthy of attention. There could
be no doubt, when the Constitution forbid forfeit-
ures in case of treason, the forfeiture of that pro-
perty was forbidden, of that kind of property in-
cident to the corruption of blood. They must re-
tort to the technical phrase, and they would find
that forfeitures meaol real estates. The gentle-
man from Maryland [Mr. Crabb] said, that the
prohibition of the forfeiture of property, where
life was not forfeited, waa just, and not aj^inst
the Constitution. This remark waa of more
weight than any other offered, though he did not
admit it to be satisfactory. On examining the
bill, he believed that both life and property might
be forfeited. It was true, there might be a case
LO which the forfeiture of private property would
be greater than real estate ; but tfiis was a gene-
ral rule, and they obtained the beneBt of the ge-
■leral rule, and paid the price of the exceptions
foe it. This law, he taid, was against the spirit
of the Constitution ; he would not say that it was
against the letter, but it was certainly against the
spirit of the ConstitutioD j for, if they allowed
the forfeiture of real estate in any case beside*
treason, they might do it for treason also, by call-
ing the crime by another naj&e.
Mi. W. Lymui said, that the Indians ought
certainly to be treated with humanity; but he did
not believe ihev had any real title to land ; they
did not allow tnem to sell land. Their property
in land had been compared bv an able writer to a
Gsheiman's property npon a nshing bank. Their
land was the property of the United Slates, which
they were suffered to enjoy, but to which they
had no real title.
Mr. Sedowick hoped the motion to strike otit
the ckoae in question would not prevail, because
it was best calculated to preserve peace on the
frontiers. It was necessary they should do all in
their power for that purpose. It waa a suh-
ieet ot considerable importance, and mure so
from the principle asserted by the gentleman last
np. If the vagabonds who were involving them
in expense were suffered to proceed in their ca-
reer, there would be no end of war; but if we
were to say to them, no title shall be acquired in
this way, we should do that which would have a
tendency to prevent war more than any thing
else which could be done. B^I, in order to jnsu-
fy their doctrine gentlemen say the Indians have
no property in the land, or that their property is
of a qualified nature, and not such as was pos-
sessed by men of cirilized society. Two hundred
years ago, he said, at the discovery of this coun-
try, when cupidity gave a right to possession,
ana all the cruellies of Spain were exercised upon
the innocent inhabitants, which bia mind shud^
dered to think of, this doctrine might have been
held. Qentlemen did not surely go upon this plan,
because civilize^ men could improve land better,
that they had thence a right to take from the na-
tives, because, as his colleague [Mr. Lyman] had
asserted, they had no more right to it than a fish-
erman bad to the banks of Newfoundland. He
had not believed that, at the close of the eighteenth
century, and in this place doctrines of this kind
would have been held. Were they to say to the
and saving to a man who had a million of acres
of land, because vou do not improve your land as
well as it is capaole of being improved, we will
take it from you? This, he said, would be a pria-
ciple of plunder wbich could never God advocates
within those walls, hostile to, and destructive of,
alt security in property. He hsid an idea that
pre>empiion right was important, and rested on a
national foundation. It was-agread, amongst ci-
vilized nations, that that nation which discovered
a country should have ihe only right of treating
with the natives, not because savages have no
rights^ but because two nations, with all the arti
01 civilization and the cupidity of buccaneers, if
they were to go and lake possession together of
the country, would play on all their savage pas-
.d by Go Ogle
flfSTpBT OF CONGRESS.
Apu^l79e.J
bUereoUTK wUk <A« Jwrfiaw.
(H.0
tioiw together, ud tha inaocent nativei woold be
wiineiies to nothing bat Uood and jdnndN. Pre-
emption ri|[htw»s,UieTefora,gaod uid leawnable
ohsll we, Mid I4r. S., wherever we find nva.-
ges who do DDt labor, send them to the mines, be-
cause we are more viyilized than they ? 9arelf
not. He believed that wherever the natires of a
country had posKa^ion, there they had a right,
and not becnuM they did ootdresa like us, were
Qot equally celigioot, or did not understand the
irts ofciTilizedlife, they were to be deprived of
thei r posteniom, but that th eir rights or their posses-
sions were as utcied ns the right* oT civilized life.
They had oeruinly this right, that they couUtue
it as they pleased. Thishe conceived to be sound
doctrin^ and be thought it had been everywhere
acknowledged ; for, so long as it shall be asserted
that Indians luve no riarhtSj they might expect
scenes of blood on thetf Irontier, Indians will ne-
ver sutenit to be told they have no nghis. With
respect to the Constitution, where did gentlenun
learn that person* were not to be disponeoed of
real eetaie, but for treason 1 A man might forfeit
it in every State in the Union but one, for debt,
when he owes more than he can pay. AD pe-
nalties of a pecuniary nature were forfeitures ; and
he wotild ask if it were more important to lose a
single acre of barren land, or a cargo of India
ffooda? This was so extensive a construction of
the Constitution, that he knew not, if it were
adopted, where it would stop. The only case to
which the clause in the Constitution referred, was
that of treason, where the passions of party were
wrought up to such a degree as to attempt to
overturn the Government; bat what had this to
do with the Indian frontier? Nothing. Because
the Constitution says, that a prevalent &ction,
who say that the minority have committed trea-
son, shall not inflict ■ forfeiitire of the possessions
of their adversaries but for life, it did not restrain
the discretion of the Legislature in inflictingpun-:
ishment for other crimes.
He saw no connexion between the two cases.
The ^entlemanfrom Virginia [Mr.litxniaoN]say*,
that if it be not contrary to the letter it is conlrary
to the spirit of the Constitution. He could not see
this. It was saying no more to the people than,
yog shall not go upon this territory to provoke
war. And it was a fact, that no provision would
be so effectual to confine the cupidity of adven-
turers, and thereby preserve peace. He trusted
the clatwe would be preserved in the bill.
Mr. Blodmt said, the greatest and most nn-
merous offenden against the Indians were not
persons who bad claims upon the lands, bat those
who had not, and never could have. Shall they,
then, he asked, pass a law which shall inflict the
highest puniahment on men who, if they had not
a clainig had paid for it, whilst those who had do
preteiuioDs to a claim, were sufiered to escape
without punishment at all ? It was said, no peace
could be had on the frontier if this law were not
passed. But he would say, neither this nor any
other law they could pass would preserve peace
on the frontiers without a military force to carry
it into effect. At present, he said, there vna a
frontier of 405 miles, with only one compaBv of
troops at thirty miles distaiice. Other parts nad
b^en guarded in a better manner.
When he was on the frontier last Summer, he
made it bis business to get all the information ha
could respecting what was best to be done for die
peace of that country. A gentletuaa on the fiOD-
tiei had given him considerable inforraation on tha
subject, which he had reduced to question and an-
swer, and placed in the hands of the eommiltee.
If the Chairman of that committee had attended
to those papers, he would not have made some m-
maiks which he had heard. He thou^t the law
before them would have all the good dfects with-
out the clause of forfeiture, and uerefore he hoped
it would be struck out; but to defend and keep
order on the frontier it would be necessary to hare
&00 man stationed there. He wished the Indians
to enjoy their lands in peace, whilst they chose to
remam npon them, but he did not think it ri^ht
that one aescription of citizens shoald be subject
to greater punishment for offences than others.
Mr. Gallatm said, there w%s no object more
worthy of their attention than the protection of the
frontier; but at the same time that they did every
thing in their power, they ousht not to attemfrt
what was not in their power. They talked of pre-
venting depredation on the territory of the Indians,
and thereby prevent retaliations from them. He
said there was no idea more groundless than that
the mischiefs committed by me Indians npon the
frontiers were in general occasioned by previona
injuries done to them. Twelve years, he said, had
elapsed since the Peace of 1783; ever since that
time be had lived on the fron^rs of Peimsylva-
nia, and not a single year had passed, whether they
were at war or in peace, but some murders or de-
predations badbeencommiited by the Indians on
those frontiers, though there had not been a single
instance of an Invasion of territory or of an unpro-
voked attack on them by the inhabitants of those
frontiers. Not a single acre of land had been taken
from them but what bad been fairly purchased.
If they meant lo prevent Indian depredations, they
must ehange the nature of the Indians ; for as long
as there were young Indian warriors, they would
Sto war, either amongst themselves or against
t Americans, and there would be murders on
the frontiers. It was nevertheless highly their
duty to prevent any provocation on thepertof our
citizens, and he would encourage any feasible
plan for the purpose. But what was the object trf
the clause now moved to be struck out 1 it was to
make a forfeiture of a real estate ior a misdemeanor.
It was forfeiting by Congress a title to a real estate
sanctioned, though not derived from Congreai,
and derived from an individual State. If once
they admitted that by a misdemeanor a citizen
might forfeit his real estate, was it not lessening
the security which every citizen enjoyed in hold-
ing property? The Constitution had said that no
Eroperty should be forfeited in the case of treason
aj^ond the life of the possessor, yet when this is
insisted upon gentlemen say, utat that clause of
the ConsiituiioD applies to personal property :but
real and not personal property must have twen
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
'"■1
liiUrcourae ieUK the Indiatu.
[Aplfl^ 1796.
conwmpUted when faifeitare is mentioaed, which
ii not to extend beyond life; for real property will
subsist whilst peraonal being of a perishable and
cansucoable nature is not lik^y to last longer than
the course of a life.
But they were told tiesKin was mentioned in
the Constitution, in order to guard against ihe ef-
fect of passions and the violence of some political
preraiiiDg factions) yet he would wish to know
whether the pasMous of certain gentlemen were
not as much inflamed whenever frontiers were
mentioned as ou aoy subject whaieTerl t3uch a
penalty would not have beentliought ofony where
but on the frontier. It was greater than the crime
woald justify. A forfeiture of estate was contrary
to the spirit if not the letter of the ConKlitutton.
and opposed to the letter of the act of North Car-
olina, whereby the territory was ceded to the
The clause onder consideration did not punish
all citizens in the same way fur the same oflence.
When A did a certain thing, he was to be fined and
imprisoned ; but ^hen B did it, he mast not only
be dned and imprisoned but aUo lose his real
estate. Penalties should doubtless apply generally.
If the act said, that any man who sDail commit a
certain oS'ence shall lorfeil all his real properly,
or a certain sum of money, this would be right;
hut it was not so in the hill before them ; the for-
feiture was confined loa specific kind of property,
possessed by oertatu individuals, and of course ap-
plied 10 those individuals in a distinct raauoer.
He referred to the act of North Carolina making
theeession to Congress, and which wa&accepttd by
Congress. That act declares that " all grantsmade
to any person within the limits ceded shall have
the same force and effect as if the cession had been
made," but the efiectof the lawbetbre them made
a new condition : it said, " you shall lose the land
if you set your foot upon it." If the United Slates
had a right to say so, because it was their interest
that the lands should not be occupied, and if next
vear they think it their interest that they should
be settled, they would hive a right to say, " you
shall forfeit the land if you do not immediately gi>
But what end, Mr. Q. asked, was to be answer-
ed by this violation of the priDCiples of justice?
Was any good to arise from il 1 How was it sup-
posed they should drive these people from (he land?
If Government was so weak as not to prevent
them from going upon it, how could they recover
the forfeiture and get possession of the land after
those people were upoti it? Was it supposed that
if these persona were not deterred by the present
law, which inflicls a petialty of one thousand dol-
lars and imprisonment one y^ar, that they would
be deterred by the present law? No such thing.
They will say. "it Government are not strong
enough to prevent us from going upon the land.
they will not be able to drive us from it." And
every one knew the difficulties attending the re-
moval of men thus settled. Nothing but an armed
force, he believed, could prevent encroachment on
the Indian frontier, as the gentleman from North
Caralina had juaily observed, if the people were
resolved to encroach. Bui as to any legal re
the present provisions by law were sufficient, o ,
the fines were not large enou|^, they might be
made larger. The Treaty with the Indians stipu-
lated, that if any inhabitant of the United Staiei
t Upon these lands, they would be out of the
protection of Government, the Indians might treat
them aa they pleased, which, he thought, 'oSend
great encouragement to the people to go upon
their territory. Taking all thesa circuiaslances
together, he thought the penalty of the old act
as sufficient.
After a few words from Hr. Kt-ttbba and Mr.
HiLLBOUtiE, the question was taken, when there
appeared for striking out the clause 33, a^mst it
"H. Tne Committee rose and the House adjourned.
MoKDAV, April 11.
Mr. Parker moved to take up the bill for
establishing trading-houses for the Indiao^ with
the report of the committee appointed to confer
with the Senate, respecting certain amendments
which wpre insisted upon by the House, when the
report was agreed to.
EXPORTATIOM OF BREAD8TDFF&
Mr. Christie wished to call up the resolntion
he had laid upon the table respecting the scarcity
of Indian com, in order that it might be referred
to a committee to make a report thereon ; as, from
accounts he had received, he thought it would be
very desirable to give immediate attention to the
Mr. HENDGRaoTf moved, that '' rye and rye
meal," might be added lo the resolution, which
was agreed to, and added accordingly.
The reference to a committee was opposed by
Messrs. CoiT, Bourtie, and Kitteh*, on the
ground of giving unnecessary alarm, ivhen they
believed there was no foundation for it ; but it was
supported bv Messrs. Chbistib. Blount, and Heh-
nBasoN, wno each gave an account of the great
scarcity which prevailed in the parts of the coun-
try from which they came, and urged the impolicy
of carrying off thai produce to feed foreign nations,
which ihetr own poor stood in need of.
A committee of fifteen, (amember from each
State.) was agreed to be appointed to report upon
the resojnlion.
INTERCOURSE WITH THE INDUNR
The House then took up ihe bill regulating in-
tercourse with ihe Indian tribes, in Committee of
the Whole.
Mr. Swift objected to the clause which enacts
thai the losses sustained by the while people from
the Indians on ths frontier, shall be made good by
Government. Personswhowcnttoliveon ttie fron-
ihuB paid for losses sustained by the frontiei
inhabitants couli! be deducted from the sum which
Government had stipulated to pay the Indians, he
should have no objection to the measure. He was
afraid by this ctauKC particularly, if not altered ia
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
906
ApRrL, irsS-J
Mititaty Eat<Mi»hment.
fH.opR
the way be proposed; ibal a door woald b« npeneil
to fraud, as it would be impossible to ascertain
with pTcctsioQ the amount of any damage done by
the Indians.
After some observalions from Mr. Hillhotisc,
a provision was inserted in the Ull to the abore
effeci.
Mr. Blodnt observed, that it wew a practice
very frequeni od the froatier, to lUrn cattle npon
the lauds of the Indiatii, to graze, and when per-
sons went to look after them, or to brinff them off,
disputes wuuld sometimes happen; wnich occa-
sioned serious mischiefs; he therefore moved a
claDse to prevent the practice in ftiture.
Mr. FfiLLHOtTBE said, that GoveromenE had re^
ceived complaints on that ground; and he thought
the nrOTJsion a proper one.
Tne aineDdibent was Bgreed to, the Committee
rose and reported the bill, and the House took it
up, and when they came to the «lauae making a
foifeiitire of bnd in certain cases, Mr. BLonnT
a^io moved to strike it out, when the question
was taken by yeas and najrs, and were for striking
the clause out 36, again:it it 4T,asrollow!i;
Yku..— Theodonis Baitey, A&raham Bildnrin, Da-
vid Bud, Lemuel Benton, TbomM Blount, Riebaid
, Brent, Nathan Bijan, Dempn; Burgea, Samuel J. Ca-
bell, Thomas Claibo^pa, Isaac Galea, Jeue Franklin,
Albert GaUatio, Jamai Qilleipie, Andiew Gregg, WU-
Uam Bany Gnwe, Wade Hampton, Cuter B. Harri-
aoD, Jonattian N. Haveni, Daniel Heiiter, Jtmaa Hol-
land, George iuAaaa, Matthew Loeke, WUHam Lyman,
SBBiDel Hadiy, Nathaniel Maoon, Ji^ Mffiedge, An-
drvw Motve, Tnderick A. Mnhlenban, Anthony Now,
AlnxaadCT D. On, Ititm Page, Jonah Paiker, John Fat-
too, AbaalMi Tatom, and Alirabwn VsaaUe.
N*(a- — KdieTAniaa,Baq}aminBauma,Tb>ei>philna
BivdlNuy, Daaiei Buck, G^vial QhnMia, Joahim Coit;
GeaiSBD*Bl,BuDiMlBHte,AbieIFoMei,
lor, EMkial Oilbail, NkdMdM CKInian, Hwi? Glen,
B«Bjunin Goodbae, Chaonoay Goodiicli, Rngsr Oria-
wotd, Robert Ooodloe Haipu, John HaChora, John
Heath, Thomaa Handenon, Jamea Hillbonse, William
Hiiuhnan, Samnel Lyman, Franda Malbone. WiUiun
Vana Murray, John Beed, Robert Rntberfoiil, Theodore
Bedgnick, J<^ S. Bherbume, Jeremiiib Smidk, Nathan-
id Smith, liTwl Smith, laaae SDiitH, William Smith,
Thonaa Sprigg, Zeplwniah Swift, OeOrge "niateher,
Richud Thau)a% MaA Thmnpaon, Uriah Tran, John
E. Van ABan; PtdUp Tan CorUandt, Peleg Waifattorth,
^rttA Jobn WBHama.'
The bill was then ordered to be engrossed and
read s tbird tiow on Wednesday nezt.
MILITARY RerTABU^HENT.
The House went into Commillee of the Whole.
on the report of the corKmiitee eppoinied to in-
quire whether any, and what, alterations ought to
bo made in the present Military 'Establishment of
tbe United Slates ; and the report of the com-
miltee was rend, as follows:
■■ That, in their opinion, tbe events which have
rhsngpd, and may be expected atill further to change
tberelatrre aUuati.on of oar frontieiB, rpndcr a rerienr
of OUT Military KaUbliihnent at this time iipodienl.
It ia the opinion of tile committee that tlM force to bo
4th CuX. — 30
provided for tbe debnelve proteelion of tbe ftontien,
need not be ao great aa what bad been contemphiled
hr cuTyiDg on tbe war againat the di^rent tribes of
hostile Indians, and which ia the baois of tlie preaent
Mllitai; Eatablishment.
" By tbe last act on this subject, of Match 3, 179S,
tbe mihtaiy force of the United State* is to be com-
poseil of the corpa of ertillenati Bud en^^neen, to taor
list of 9B2 non-ccmmivuoned oQicen, privatea, and
municians, and a legion to coaaist of 4,800 non-cem-
oiisaioned officers, privates, and mnaiciani. Of theae
thcro will still be In actusl aervice on tbe first of July,
next, 3,004, which the committee anppose will be sut
Ecient to be continued as the present Military Eatab-
liahiaeBt: they, therefore, recoilimend the (allowing re:
Bolationa :
" Raohed, That the present Military Eatshlishment
of the United States oi^ht not to 'exceed 3,000 iion-
commiasloned oflteets, privatea, and nusiciBna.
" Raohed, That ttieae ought to consirt of Ae corp*
of artillet^ita and engineers, as eetabliahed by the act tif
the 9th «r M^, I7H, and of foot regimenta of inbo-
'■tSi
TbM Aere be one Brigadier General, five
to the rolea and r^uUtions Sn the discipline of Iha
troopa qf the United Statea."
Mr. Bboowice wished for iaformation on the
subjeot. He conceived it would make some differ-
ence whether they. had or had not to narrrson
the posts at present in the bands of QreBtBritaia.
Mr. Bali>wtn said, they had got as good inform-
aiion-as could be given. The accounts given in
included the posts and all the frontier. Some
atalements made tbe number of men necessary
somewhat more than 3,000, others somewhat less;
bat they took tbe number as that which wonld be
in service on the first of July next. As la tbe
qtieation of the gentlemBn from Massachusetts, it
would make little difference whether they follow-
ed tbe line of tbe lakes or the posts as run by tbe
territory.
Mr. fieiMwiaK said, he did not perfectly undei-
itand tbe Chairman of tbe committee. He did
not nnderttand that there were *ny posts on this
iide of the Britisb posts. He could not we, there-
fore, but it mutt make a difierenee between a ei^
ilation to garrison those posts, or tbe contrary.
Tboy were or were net to be garrisoned. If they
I m be garrisoned, it would certainly require
a greater number of men than if they were not.
> oe gariisoned.
Mr, Dbarbobn said, that, in ealculatinff tbe
number of men necessary for a Peace Establish-
ment he hitd endcBTored to ascertain, as near b»
possible, the number of posts to be garrisoned,
and the number of 'men necessary for each garri-
son, in the different parts of the United Stblet.
It would make very little difference, in his opinion,
as to the namber of men which would be necea-
sary, whether the posts now occupied by the Bri-
tish within our territory, were pot into our po»-
lession or not. If we. got possession of these
posts we shall putjiroper garrisons into them ; btit
;f they are not given up we shall undoubtedly
thmk it necessary to place hrger garrisons a I
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«ft7
HIBTOBT OF CONOREeS.
M9
M
Militaty SstablMm
[AetM^nW,
those
British garrisani.
FroDi erer; calcuUlioo Which he had heeD
able to make, he ww coDrinced thmt 2,500 nak.
and file would be fully adequate to all the objects
for which men under preMat circamMaoces could
be wanted; bat, as <re should haTe about 3,000
. mta iu the field on the first of July next, he had
miiiseDted, m ihe select commitlee. t« the num-
her meDlioDed in the report. Three thousand
nen were nearly eaual la the nnmber which had
composed our real military force through the
course of the Indian war. They were not, there-
fore, aboDl to reduce our army, but to consoti-
date it
With. respect to the {unjuzatiwii be believed
tiiat most gentlemen, wbo had aay military
knowledge, wonld be of ppiqion that when troops
irete to be detkohad in the tnaiUKr oiu am«U ar-
my miwt he, in^JHwU parlies to a artat aombet of
Boat*, where tbeti intj waaU bexknwt altn^tber
garrison duty, that neither mvalrygwhich was rery
WpeBStTergtenadiers, Ugtil ubaoy, or riicnen,
inuM be eithwucewsarr or pHmtr-; but thai the
«iabliahiM«t,-aa rcpotleil, should be eompoeed of
iba vegNMiKs of vrttU^y and en^neeia, *a al-
■eady established by law, Hhitk was to consist of
vny itev one thousand loen, wd four amall regi-
DMnts, of aboai fire hundred men each ; each re-
Iiment to be egmpofed of eight comiianiesof in-
. utbT. He thought it was ueoesMry that -^ —
^ould be a large pro^rtion of officers, on ac-
•euBt of the dMached situation of '
ttnt, hy harisg uaell rcfpnents . .__,
that i>bject would be ohtaiae<l. Upon the whole,
he wMdearlf of ojMnion that tfa« lepwt.now an-
der eooaidemioa was w^U calculated ibr the in-
, terest of the United States.
Mr. Uaktl<> sftid, he did not acquiesoe in th<
fviscJ^le pf this business. He did not think il
Eadenl to ga into any alteratioD in their Military
itablishment He did not agree with the com-
nuiWe that there had been a change of eircum-
■t»nees. There was a power ia the Prcbibbkt
to make any alwratiooa he might deem noocssary.
But be thought those who were fsieods Lo the
Constitution and Ooveroment ought aot.toToic
fpr the rf port. He did not agtee with the geath
■OM £iom Masswhuaetts, {Mr. DEAHaoMt,] that
thqre WIS BO uecewity for iajanicy aad gFena-
diera. It was akaitging' even thing without the
support of experience tor the cbuge. At ihic
tim^ before the Treaty with Great Brii
carried into eOact, It wjis not proper lo make this
change. He hop^o there would not be a majority
In that Committee to make the ptapcofi altera-
tion. He wished the subject might bare been de-
lermioed lata in the session.
Mr. Giles was in bvor of the report of the
comraiilfe. There bad been diflerent opinions
held in that House with respect to the energy of
Government. It was the opinion of the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania [Mr. Hartley] that a
large Military Ejiablishment wax nrcessary for
the support of Government. This Government
said Mr. G., was never thought to be
one. He thought there was sufficient energy ia
the people to support their own Government
without the aid of a Military Establish men t. And
was it to be said, because certain gentleinen weie
opposed to standing armies, they were aUo op*
posed to the Government? He believed that
Government would be better without an army,w
It was always better for Governments to rest upoa
the affections of the people than to be supported
by terror. He had always opposed the measure,
because he thought it would not suengthen ils
hands- It was an extraordinary thing, because he
did tbis^ he was called an ajiemy to iBoveromtuL
He could not forbear making these remarks, as be
thought they were called for. He should vote in
favor of a reduction of the Miiiluy Esublisb-
Mr.U[i«RAT could see no analogy between the
energy of Governmeixt referred to liT the utember
last up, and that referred to by ttie aentlemaa
from Pennaylvania, [Mr. Hahtlbv.J It was
meant for certain ends. It was not meant to co-
Mople of the United States, but thf ene-
be United States. What sort of temper
must the gentleman potaess to wrest the gentle-
man's meaning so muchT What connexion ww
there between the energy of Government and the
military 7 Had the array ever been called upon
to coerce the people of the United States? The
milUia had. indeed, ba«n called in fo qoell the
late iasurrectioB.
The aoBTgyof the aimy was jemployed to guard
their frostier. It was an energy appropriate to
that parlirHlar objeet. But the gaDlleiMn boat
Virginia spoke as- if he wwld bve the people
believe that there were men in that House who
wiahed to eoene the peofde of theUniled Slates.
Neither ha, noraay man with whom he acted, he
would ventare to assert, ever cotvriaiaed such as
idea ; and it was not fitting that such * doctrine
should go abroad withoCt being exposed. For.
said Mr. M., you may ruil at Government, bm
Kuc out abuse against it as long as you pleas^
t once communicate an idea that there was a
partv in that House who were sospected of an in-
tention of roercing the peopte by an established
military force or standing army, and you m^e
it the duty of the pe^Ie to overset the Govem-
ment if thai party prevail At present, he sai<^
while' the Coiled Stales stand on a middle
ground, on which the dispute on ^ execution or
inexecutiOD of the Treaty placed them, il was, in
bis opinion, highly impolitic to give up any pare of
the Military Establishment. The people look
forward to the Ant of Jime for the delivery of
the Western posts. This public especiation mav
be gratified if we a'c wise; if we are weak
enough to reject the Treaty expressly, it will be
defeated. Where are we in that sutc of tbingsl
Policy would not dictate a redneikoa of force in
that state of things.
But, he observed, if the army is considered in
relation lo the Peace Establishment, we ought
not to reduce it. By the delivery of those long-
contested poxts the sphere of protection is to be
enlarged. You come to a slate of wider or cluae
Digitized byGoogle
m
PST0R¥ C^ CO^OPSSS.
Apbiu 1796.J
JtiUilarj/ BttdbiUhmetit.
riLo
GOD tact with nations, who Are scarcely sasoepti-
' Me, from their state of saTageness, of tbe confi
dential relatloDs of lasting peace ; no such ihiog
is to be BDticipated. Tour peace wiili sucb
uaiioi)!! toucbin^ your borders, Uirongii an almost
imoieasarable troniier. is but an armed peuti^iiy,
an armed peace, a sute of pei^iual vigilance,
■nd your force miut be adequate in many relative
puicis to sudden war. Fur his own part, resid-
ing as be did beyond tbe reach of Indian wars, no-
thing but a principle of justice to tbe whole
Union would lead him to wish to see an armed
force, at tbe public expense, upon the frontier.
He wpntd repeat, that Ibe idea which the genlle-
maa threw out, that a party in this QoTerninent
wished to coerce the fieeiuen by a standing army,
VB9 SD empty dream, which he did not ihmk thai
KatlcBian himself believed. That an army of
e or six thousand men, acting in so remote a
scene, and never heard of but in the victories
they sain over the external enemies of the coun-
try, sEould prove a source of alarm to such a na-
tion &-•• this, so armed as they are, so free, so spi-
rited, and enlightened, and ih«i nation, too, of al
least five millions of souls, appeared to him to be
too ridiculous to be snstained ^gainst one mo-
ment'* thought. That the doctnoe which the
{^ntleman talked o{ should have been tbe Inten-
tion (^ any party, was, to him, equally extraordi-
nary and unwarraated:
Mr. Gallatin agreed with the gentleman last
Bp, that there was no connexion between a stand-
ing army and the suppurt.ol the Constitution and
Qovernment ; and, tbetefore, he was surprised to
hear his collet^ue say. " tbat every friend to the
OoremmeDt and Cunsiituiion ought lo vote
against the reduction of tbe Military Establish'
ment.'^ He was not afraid of tbe army. H? did
not think that that army was either necessary for
dte suppott of Guvcrnme'nt or daogerous'to the
liheriies of the people. Hesboald nut hare risen
had it' not been for what bad fallen from the gen-
ttetnan from MaiylandjJ^r. MoaRAv] with re-
spect to the frontiers. When the Military Estab-
lishment was raised to its present amount, it was
OD account of an Indian war. Thai war was now
at an end. But that gentleman says the Military
EstahlishiUent was necessary to guard the fro^i-
lier. ^rora 1783 to 1791 wW were the troops
■on the frontiers? Very few; yet the frontier was
aa eflecinally protected as now. But a regular
war bad been determined upon, which, in hia
opinion, was not necessary for the protection and
■ecurtty of the frontier. Tbeir duence would at
tM times depend more on the population ajid the
inhahitanta themselvei than on a regular army.
Peace, however, was now made, ana, although
it would not, perhaps, altogether prevent Indian
depredations, a Peace Establishment was now
With reji»ct to tbe posts now in the hands o)
the British, it was of no consequence whether the
men were placed in them, or in those of this side
of them. But the number of troops now to b<
kept was nearly the name that they had had fo
some time past. There was anomer idea held
nut. k was said that it was not yet known what
ma;^be done in this'House with respect to the
British Treaty. What was this idea calculated
10 produce 1 That if the House of Representa-
tives did not carry the British Treaty into effect,
War was in some de ree connected with the evenL
AS to himself, he had no such fears; and, in hia
(ipinion.ihe present question was merely a monej
b:II. If there was pu occasion' for five thousand
men, it was better that they should only have
three, because it would save money. The saving
of expense would be near $600,000 a year, aa ol^
ject of first importance, in the present situation of
the finances of the United Stales.
Mr. Hartley said, he did not expect his wordt
would have been wrested for the purpose they had
heenused. Hiseonduct would speak for him. Hft
had fought in the cause of liberty and his country.
He woiud not call hini:telf a Democrat, nor aa
Aristocrat, but a Republican. Different membera
in (hat House held different opinionik though he
hoped all meant weU. He tboughi there was no
^eeensity for pressing this husinessforafewdays;
he apprehended they wen in a very critical sitiH
' Hr. Venable thought' the present measure a
very proper one; it took away tbe necessity of
apilropriatingr double the quantity of money necesr
sary. Was il the intention of the gentlemen to
set up a Military Bstablishmeni ? If so, it would
be well to say so. It was a consideration whether
they ought to make uniiececsary appropriations of
money. It was said, on a late, occasion, this can.
be spared from the Military Establishment i hut
when they came loconsidet thesul^ect. they were
told il was not proper to reduce it. It was said
this was a criijcal moment. This was an old crjr.
They had heretofore made appropriations for six
thousand men, though three thousand only bad
been kept up. The present regnlalion, therefore.
only wpnt to prevent improper appropriations, ana
not to decrease, the real rumber of men. He did
not see that the present question hud any relation
to Democrats or Ariitocrata. It was necessary
they should have an eye to the expending of the
public money, and if six or eight thousand dollar*
could be saved in the eipenaitute on this head,
it was desirable.
Mr.CaABB hop«d the resolution would be agreed
to. It was not two years since six ihousand^men
were deemed necessary under the pressure of In-
dian wars ; and if that, number was sufii«ient ts
carry on war, it was not surely necessary to have
an equal number in peace. Althefpeninguf th«
session ihe PREaiD£EiT told them ine)[ -wetu at -
peace with all the world ; they knew also that .
they had paid a certain price for peace ; whyjheik
keep up the same number of men s|ill1 Would
not gentlemen who were friendly to an increase of
the Military Establishment, say, in case of any
emergency or future Indian war r " We kept op -
suift a number in time of peace, we most now
increase them ; and when tnat is closed we must
continue them:" and so they might be drawn oa
by Aeatties to a large slandiDg army. They were—
told that a standing army in time of peace, of five
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OP R.]
Military EttabtUhment,
[April, 1796.
or six ibousand taea could be of no conscijueHce j
nothing dnngerous to liberty coaldbeapprebended
from them. But, because he was noi afraid of a
duzrn servants Huiut his house, wan he to keep
them whfD be had no occasion for ihem 7 Was
Ibis economy? So with respect lo the mililafy.
For, though that House or (he country would
never be afraid of a Miliiary Esiahtishmenl much
more numerous than the ooe proposed, yet it ousht
to be as small as possible lo answer ihe puBlic
objects Both economy and policy supported this
principle. They knew that most of lae Powers
of Europe had been led iato slavery by standing
armies. He hoped' they should never pay men
■when they did not want them. They were told
their silualion was criiical; and Treaties were
improperly dragged into view. He did not ihiiik
the Military EstabliabmenI had any connexion
with the Treaties now before tbem. If they were
to he involred in war, the^ had, he trusted, much
belter and more nuhsiantial resources than the
present army, and that the same spirit which
conducted them to hoqpr and victory heretofore'
would not forsake them on any future occasion.
He therefore hoped the proposed reduction in the,
military would take niace.
Mr. ,noi.LANO wished (a know what necessity
there was for keeping gp so many men as were
proposed by the report. It was necessary for
fentlemen who wished to have the larji^e esta-
lishmenl kept up, to show the necessity for the
•mailer. Tliepenileraan fVom Massachusetts [Mr.
Bbdgwick] said, if the posts were given up they
must be enrrisoncd. He understood that the keep-
ing of those posts by the British occasioned a.
|[reater number of men to be kept up, as it was
tuspected they incited the Indies to commit de-
Sredations. The gentleman from Maryland [Mr.
luRRAv] said the same thing. If they intended
to follow the example of Great Britain, it would
be- proper to increase their Miliiary Eslablish-
pieuts ; but it did not agree with the spirit of their
Constitution to do so. It was an extraordinary
eircumstance, he said, that though Ihe army was
said to be wanted for the rrOQ(ier,KenlIemenfrom
that quarter wish to reduce the Bstablishmcnl,
whilst gentlemen from the seaporls, where no
danger can be apprehended, wish to increase it.
On the fromiu, he believed, Military Establish-
ments were looked upon as nuisances in time of
peace.
Mr. FiNDLET said, in every stage of the Milita-
ry Establishment, he had been in faTorof it. An
•ItempI was made last session to lessen ft, which
he opposed i but he saw no reason now against
making the proposed reduction, and he should
therefore vote for it. The object, he said, was to
Dew-model it, and keep up nearly the same force.
The misfortune was, that they had heretofore had
the name without the number. If the number
had been sufficient for war, tli^y would certiM|Iy
be so for pence. The gentleman from NorlhTa-
rolina [Mr. Hollai«d] seemed to think there wos
no occasion fbr so many mfn. He did nol apprar
to be acquainlfd with the frontier. They would
tie employed in the forts. Thiswfas a service to
w^ich miliiia could nol be called. He did not
think three thousand would be loo many. Their
times would be expiring, by de^ees, and therefore
a less number would nol be sufficient. If the nio-
posal had been for keeping up a skeleton of an
army, he would not have voted for it.
Mr. Giles said it was well known that gentle-
men had been called bv unusual epithets, and in-
sinuations had been tnrown out thai they had
some designs upon-Government. He always felt
such insinuations too contemptible for bis notice;
but when they were reported in that House it be-
came necessary to take some nocice of them. It
was with that view that he got uplo deny the in-
sinuation thrown out by a gentleman in the course
of the debate. It had been remarked that it was
improper to have been introduced. He Ibought
it righ^ to speak bis sentiments in bis place, in k
style and manner whic^ could not be mistaken.
Tliere was a difference of opinion in that House
on Military Establishments. Various questions
on ihal subject had been brought forward in that
House, and various attempts made to increase it.
At present it was the object of some gentleinen
lo keen up six thousand men. Their argument
was, tnal that House might do something which
would make these men necessary. Although, he
said, six thousand men could not be lookedupon
as dangerous to the country, yet the verv ide» of
B Military Establishment was to him a dii<agrec-
eitber as possible. With respect to the geotle-
mau's girding on his sword in the time of necessi-
ty, it was honorable to him. and he doubted not
he was, ai he said, a friend of liberty. He remark-
ed that be honored the gentleman forhis pa,iriatic
exertions during the late war. He himf^lfwas
also a friend of liberty, but they seemed to diSei
somewhat in their opinions about supporting and
preserving it. He did not think aji army neres-
sary to regulate that liberty. He should advo-
cate such means b* he thought best calculated, to
that end, but be did not believe that either stand-
ing armies or an unnecessary connexion with
Great Britain would be favorable to liberty-
It had been said the chief destination of these
men was the frontier. Against whom? Not the
Indians; because they were at peace with them ;
therefore, thai object did not exist. It was hi*
opinion that there would be continual depreda-
tion; but there was no occasion for large armies
lo prevent them. , The lesolutlon did not go to
lessen the real number. Heretofore ihrv had, it
was true, six thousand men on paper, but oitly
three thousand in the field. It was his opinion
that even this number was not neces.tary, but he
saw it was the general opinion, and ibereiure he
would agree lo it.
Upon the whole, he believed it was advisable
to have the paper establishment to correspond
with the real as nearly as possible ; for, allhougli
only three thousand men, there was seldom
any surplus of money from the appropriation for
the bix thousand. lie was very unwilling logo
upon subjects of alarm ; it was uncccessary to
;dbvGoogle
HISTCMIT OF CONGREaS-
Aeriu 1796.]
Debt due Bank o/' the Untied State*.
ny there were wmu molivet for alarm. It was
his wish, BDtt had always be«a hu conduct, to
make peace as much as possible. He could never,
however, sit still, when an array was called the
energy of OoTerDmeaE. If gentlemen examined
the louroab, they would find many propositions
for increasioa; the Army Kstablishment, which
bad always been negatited.
Mr. HiLLHOcsB hoped the resolution would be
agreed to. He thought there was no occasion for
a greater number of men than it expressed. He
believed that gentlemen were correct when they
stated, lha\ though six thousand men were appro-
priated for, that oaly three thousand were in ser-
vice. But appropriation, as had been before stated,
did not make mooey flow into the Treasury. He
did not think, as had been msinnated, that any
part of the money was improperly expended.
Mr. Hahpeb was of opinion that three ihousaoJ
men were suffisieni for a Peace Establishment,
and would therefore vote for the resolution.
The first resolution was agreed to, and thp se-t
cond and third, after aoinefewobservaiions on the
Sropriety of iscroducing a Major Qeneml in ad-
iiion, or instead, of a Brigadier Qeneral, which
was proposed bv Mr. Bodhnb, and npposed by Mr.
Dearbobh and Mr. Datton, were also agreed
to. The Committee reported the resolutions, and
the House took up, and went through them, and
ordered a bill to be brougbl ii).
' RBTBNDE SBHVICE.
ThcHousewent into a Committee of the Whole
OQ the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on
the petiiioD of Hopley Yeatcm and others, which,
havmg gone through, the House agreed to, as
follows:
RetcHoed, That provision ought to be made by
law for raisinc the wages of the officers and men
employed on board the revenue cutters. .
Retoloed^ Thai provision ought to be made by
law for a distributton of the .fines, penalties, apd
forfeitures, incurred under the impost laws, and.
recovered ia consequence of information given by
officers OD board any of the revenue cutlers, among
all the o£Gcers of such cutters j and that, in sucti
cases, the distribution shall be one-third to the
IJnitEd Slates; onerthird to the officers of cus-
toms, in manaet as' is now provided, relative to
that part of the forfeitures they are entitled to;
and one-third to the oSceis of such cutter, to be
divided amoog them in proportion to their pay.
Reaotved, That the Pbesident qt tbe UniTEn
Statbs b« empowered to causa new revenue cut-
ters to be builc or purchased, in lieu of those which
shall, from time to time, appear to be unfit for
further service; and that, in lieu of the cutter
lately employed in the bay and river Delaware,
he be authorized to cause to he built or purchased
a vessel suitahJe for a cutler, and to be empbjred
occasionally in carrying despatches to foreign
countries; and-that the necessary (expenses at-
tending the purchase and. repairs of the said cut-
lers, be paid by the Collectors of the Customs, out
of the proceeds of the duties on import* and the
loonage of vessels.
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pur-
suant to the said resoluiiooa, and that Mr. Sber-
HDBH^, Mr. CoiT, and Mr. Swanwick, do prepare
and bring in the same.
j)EBT Cub bank united states.
Mr. W. Smith called for the order of the dajr
on the tnll providing for payment, in part, of the
Debt due to the Bank of the United Stales, which,
after some objections from Mr. GtLi.ATiN, against
taking the subject up at so late an hour, as the
debate would probably be lopg, the House divid-
ed, and the question for taking it up was carried
byasmall majority.
Mr. GALI.ATIN said, the aubstance of this bill
depended upon filling up the blank', and therefore
he hoped the blanks would be filled up in a Cora-
mitiee of the Whole. For this purpose, he moved
to fill up the blank with tl,2W,000. He did not
expect the subject to have been taken up t»Jay,
and therefore he had not with him some calcula-
tions which he meant lo introdaceon the subject.
But, as he did not expeot the question would ba
taken, he would take occasion to speak of them
to-morrow. Mr. G. then went into his reasona
for wishing the blank to be filled up with $1,200,-
000, instead of »5,0OO,O0O.
Mr. W. Smith said, ibe gentleman from Peniw
aytvania [Mr. Gallatin] wished the blank to be
filled up with S1,200,00U, instt»d of f 3.000,000.
The gentleman did not deny thai the United Statea
owedthe Bank that sum, nor did be propose any
meansof paying it. Mr. S. conceived thBt,whea- .
ever the public owed.asumof money, it was their
duty to discharge it in money, or to give in lies
something which would enable the creditor to
procure the money. The. Bank had called upon
Government ibr the money ihey owed to it The
Bank had made considerable ad ranees Id Govern-
ment, and they could n6t oorry on their necessa-
ry operations, except they were paid the fire mil-
lions now proposed to be funded ; the Quvemment
otyed them more than six millions, but it was pro- '
Ksed m fund only five. But the gentleman lays,
is for paying only tl^OOOOO, because, next
year, they will probably be able to ray more. It
was Mid that the Secremry of the Treasury did
not expect, at the opening of the session, that tbii
Debt was to be funded, but that it was to remain
on ihefootingof thecustomoryaaticipations. Mr.
S. referred lo a late report of the Secretary of the
Treasury, (which he reaJ) wherein he states po-
sitively that it will be necessary to fund all iha
anticipations due to the Bank, as there were nO
means of discharging them, and the Bank were
iiot in a condiiion to make further advances.
The difference between fire millions, with which
he proposed -to fill up the blank, and the sum of
$1,200,000 with which the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania proposed to fill it, eoosiaied of the sum
of 93^800,000 the Bank had advanced by way of
anticipations oD the annual revenues. This biuk
that gentleman wished to be left unprovided fbr.
But. in that case, it was obvious that th» Bank
cotild nni advance Government any mtney, how-
ever great the extremity, and n>on«r %t3. U). diffi-
.dbyGoogle
HiStOKY OF COJ^GHt?£SS.
916
l.orB.]
DOt due Bank o< Ou Vnittd Stale*.
[April, 1796.
eult to be bonovri fTOtn any olber aoure^ thai
the moTenieols of QoTemm«Dt might be effectu-
altf armied. If this sum of t3,8OU.00O were noi
paid, ihey would be liable ai an^ time to be called
upon for It; whilst that Debt existed in its pn>seD[
■hape, all the money which came into ihe Trea-
Kiiy waa aeeesdarily turned orer to disehar^ it.
Would it Dot, Cherefore, be a-great advantage to
Oorerameut to put ihia Debt out of the way for a
nniDber of yeart, by wiiicb means their curreot
rereoues wopld be llberaied for their current ex-
penses 1 Besides, the Treasury would then hare
a snrptas of money in 'band, and find a ready re-
source in ilie Bank to answer any eontingancy ;
it wan certainly conTenient and right alwars to
have rach a resource.' But, if this was not done,
sll the money which came into the Treasui^
would be immediately paid to the Bank ; and, in
K case of emergency, tbe Ooreroment wonld be
Mtireiy deatitule. The objection which the gen-
tleman from PennayUania had to funding this
Debt for a certain nnraber of yean, was, that they
■u( it oat of their power to p«.y it off. Mr. S. laitt
It was very evident, that they coald not pay off
this Debt Irom their present revenue now with
•Df probable increase; for, besides these five mil-
lions, there would be three millions and upwards
«f Domeatic and Foreign Loans fall ingdue before
ifce year 1801. which they must pay. Thiswould
mi^ an addition ot (620.000 per anndm to their
present expenditure, and must be paid out of new
nvraoea, or new Loans. And in the year 1801.
•bey had Hirtfaer to meet an additional eipen&e of
^1,146,370 for the Deferred Debt. He acknowl-
•^ed he did not know where gentlemen would-
And revenues to pay off iill those sums, besides the
D^ due to the mnk. He therefore thought it
goiod fiolicy'to fund the five millions in tbe way
w^need, that they niiffat have a resource in an
natitutioti which would be able to advance them
noBoy whenever oceaaion pressed them for it.
He nndersldod that the Treasarv vas now in an
«i&tiamu«ed situation, that they had applied to the
Btak for an advance for the carrent service, and
t^l the Bankwas incapable of advancingany. It
WIS well known that the interest which Govern-
ment paid to the Bank for their money was only
five per cent., though the Bank mieht, by dis-
eounto, make eight or nine of it. It was also
well known that the income of the Bank of the
United Slates was less than that of any other
bank, owing entirely to their having somoeb mo-
■ey locked up in the bands of Governmeot. Was
It an advantage to the United States, who owned
two millionsof stock in that Bank, that, from their
Mgaf^ng so mnch of its money, tbev only received
S dividend of eight per cent, whilst otner banks
iH Tided twelve per cent, and upwards. Thedif-
fcrence in the dividend to tbe United Biaten wai
tighty thOQsand dollars ])er annum.
From these coniideratioDs, he thought the plan
froponrd by the Committee of Wnynand Means
■ot only jnst ax it related to the Bank, but expe-
Weat in relation to Chvemment. He hoped, ibere-
tot*. wbcn tbe blank came to be filled up, it will
be BUed up widi five miUion. For the present,
as it was past the usual hour of adjourameni, be
had no objection to the Commiilee's rising. He
took, however, this opportunity of stating that be
was not, as calumny Dad suggested, iu the least
interested in that institution, tie had, a consider-
able time ago, sold all the property he. had ever
owned in the Bank. As the duly which devolved
upon him, as Chairman of the Committee ofWa^
and Means, required his taking an active pan in
measures connected with that institution, he coo-
sideredbimself called upon to make this declara-
The Committee now rose, and had leave to sii
a^ain.
ToasDAT, Apdl 12.
A mesmge from the Senate informed the House
that the Senate have passed the bitt, entitled "An
scrauthoriziogand directing the Secretary ^f War
to place certain persons therein nat^ed on tbe pen-
sion list,''wi>bsevetalameodments;ia which they
desire the concurrence of this House. Tbe Senate
have also passed tbe bill, entitled " An act declar-
ing the consent of Congress to a certain act of tbe
State of Maryland, aodlo eontinne an act dectar>
ing the asselit of Congress to eerain acts of the
Slates of Maryland, Georgia, and Rhode Island
and Providence Plantations, so Ar as the same
respects Georgia and Rhode Island and Provi-
dence Plantations," with ^veral amendments; to
whicblhey desire the concurrence of this House.
Mr. Shbbborne, from the committee to wbon
was referred tbe subiect of the Revenue Cutters,
brought in a bill on tne ^Dbjecl; which was twice
read, and ordered to be committed to a Commit-
tee of the Whole to-morrow.
Mr. HAaniBON. from the cominittee to whom
was referred the subject of regulating the Weights
and Measures of the United States, made a report;
which was twiee read, and referred to a Commit-
tee o[ the Whole on Monday.
Mr. DEARBoHN.from the committee to whom
was referred the PBEHtDBNT'a Message relative to
the Territory South of tbe river Ohia reported
that thiLt Territory, now bearing the name of the
State of Tennessee, was entitled to sll the privi-
leges enjoyed by tbe other Slates of the Union,
and that it should be one of the sixteen Stales of
America. Tbe report was twice read, and com-
mitted to a Committee of tbe Whole on Tuesday
DEBT DUE BANK UNITED STATES.
The order of the day being called for, the House
formed itselfinio a Committee of the Whole, od
the bill making provision, in part, for the payment
of the Debt dne to the Bank of the United States.
The motion made by Mi. Gallatin to strike out
5.000.000 and insert 1,800,000 dollars being under
consideration —
Mr.BanowicK wid, the question before the Com-
mittee was, whether the blank in the bill should
be filled with 1,200,000 or with 6,000,000 doDarsT
in other words, whether the Loan wDieh the bill
proposed should be of the former or latter amount?
.dbyGoogle
917
HISTORY OF CCWGRESS.
AraiL. 179ft.]
ZfeW rfMB Biutk t^ lAt United ^ata.
TfiP gcpilemaQ from PenasjrLratiU [Mr. Oalla-
Tt)i] had jreswrday declared, tlutjUiliecDmnience-
ment of tho pieMDl sessioo, »he Secreiarjr of ibe
Treunr; did aot espect that anf sUch Loan irould
h>re been proposed ; nor did the Bask tbea exppci
the pajnneat of the Loans with which it had ac-
eooimodaled the QorerDraeDL Id aopport of his
deetemiion, the gntleman read a Jtassage from the
flm report >a«de the present sesaion by the Sxre-
tmtf. Tout paasaj^ declared, that the aaticipa-
tiooB of the rerenne which tnijcht exist at the dose
ef the pTCseitt year must be eontinued the neil.
Thr^femlmtan had from beoce iDferr«d, that those
ntieipatiaas were- to eoDiioue in their preseni
farm. The report Imported do racb idea, but only
Ibat the Secretary did not expect any measare
would be adopted thia iwaaion ror the extinguish
■MBl of those Loans by payment. This wia not
«a]y tbemeaoiag of ihe Secretary, bnt that mew-
ing was parfecily well known to the geotlenua
kiiBMlf at tha moment he made tbi* declantion.
To prove, at the same time, the tiMaDias of the
Beontary, and that that nening was welTknowi)
to the gentleman, he woatd take tbe liberty to state
totae net* whiob ha ewMinly woaM not deny.
Soonnftar the appoiDtmaat of the Committee
«r Waya and Meana, and, be belieTed. at the nry
firatmeettBgof that coanine«,afidM which meet-
Jng the ganilaiBan was presmt, an interview took
ptiae between the oommittaeaad the Secretary.
At ibat time tba SecreUirT made the propo^ the
•Uaet ofwhteh was detailed in the bill^ with this
Muy differenoe, that his propoul extended to the
anm-tolal of the amount of the Debt due to the
Bank. This wasaboattbetnnetlntibereportwna
■Mie. The gentleman tben did know.atthat lime,
thai the Beeretary's report did not mean what be
bad deelarad it dMk
ThiscniulasiaBwnstrrasistiUe. Tbi9,how«T«T,
ma ntrt ttU. Very early in the leiBion, a report of
■ eommittee of the Bank was put into the hands
af the gentleman; hereof thia leport, and conii-
darcd itaeotneats. Tburepon««mmeDiedoDibis
Ttrj prtMoaiiion. h waa, too. in eonseqiience of a
propMStion made to the Bank by the Secretary —
a pnqtoaition in which the Seereury and the eom-
mittee of the Bank perfectly eoaearred. It waa
Aot inK, then, that the Secretary of the Treamry,
M the cemmencemeot of the jNreKent ■ession,
nxpeeled that the Loians for — •■ •■ —
by tbe bill. In this idea the Bank perfectly con-
««rTed. With all these tketii, ihe gentleman "--
well aeqaainied: it was then incumbent on
to reconcile bis deelaratioitswith the stale of (acta
which he perfectly knew.
Here Mr. B. read the foltowiog Mssages from
Uw report of the Committee of the Bank :
• (t ta 'Mtjr intanrtiag to Oo Bank to i)«tIm sobm
■ of latnidalniglb«robUfaliDas, which
bVagiowi
tb« Satmair OB the aubjeot
upointed to coniw with
at thia' laltetr to press an
Mntiait the neceanty of a speedy extinction of the
Goremment Loans, and to indicate adispoBitlon on the
put of the Bank to recnTe ■ slock, to be sold on account
of the Uaited States, to be craaled on the teimt above-
Those. termSi the gentleman from PeoDsylvantt
well knew, were pieoaely the aamc a> those de-
tailed in Ihe bill.
The gentleman had made a very serious charge
aeainut a nimbef of gentlemen in thk Honaec
He said that it was " an object to perpetuate and
incieaae Ibe Public Debt." Thlscharge was jus-
tified neither by the general tenor, nor by any one
act of Ihe political lives, of those gcDllemen. Nol-
wtibstandiDg they had, in every iastaoce, anA
under the weight of an embarrassing and powerful
opposition, exerted, on every occasion, all iheii
faculties to improve and enrich the public reve-
nues. The same gentleman had, during the laiil
sessioD. under the weight of the same oppOEition.
carried through an act which was ieteDded to, aoA
be believed would, ultimately aaaibilate the Debt.
Yet, those wbo had never attempted to propose
any measure to improve the revenue, or deCTCasa
the Debt — who haa never proposed any system of
their own — but, oa the contrary, . coabtantly op>
Esed and embarrassed every measure, had the
Idness to charge the men who were eodeavor-
iag to support tlie Public Credit and diminish th«
Public Debt, with drains which they neithei
avowed Dor entertained. He would declare that
menofpureandhanoTabtemieDtioDii did nut lightly
impute impure motives to others.
If, indeed, the gentlemen aKainst Whom this foul
eharse was made bad been kaown to have com-
bined, "id every measure which might obstruct
the operatioQ of law" or Goveriuneai ; iftbey had
publicly declare4 to the world, " that the men who
would accept of the offices, to perform the neces-
sary functions of Government, were lost to every
sense of virtue ;" " that, from them was to be with-
holdcti every comfort of life wbicb depended on
those duties, which, as men and fellow-citizens,
we owe to each other;" if thegenttemanhad been
2uilty of such, nefarious practices, there would
have been a sound foiudaiion for the charge of
the gentleman. Bui they, it was known, had Deeii
mnouent of such actions ; and it was also well
known that they were equally so of the inten-
tions which the gentleman bad unjusUy imputed
It would oertainly, with every man who viewed
the subject of Public Credit as he did, be of little
importance whether the finaaces had or had not
been wisely administered, li would, however^ be
proper, after what bad been wid on this occasion,
to state generally noat had beeu done by himself
the other day in detail— that the extraordinary
expenses which had been soatoinedanddisebarged
since the commencemeotof this GoTernmeot. had
amoonted to at least - - «1D,000,000
That there has been paid in pnidlBsea - -a,600,0Ut
Paid of nnhinded debt , - - - 6,000,000
Furebaaaa of Bank stock - - - 3,000,000
Due in crediu la Ihe tevenna • - 4,600,000
;dbvGOOgle
HraTOBY OF CONGBESS.
Debt due Bank t^ tk* UiuUd StaUt.
[Apbil, 1796.
Pud in pnnuuiea of the reduction a_
tut Mwon - , ' - - 600,000
31,eOO/KH)
For thii thtn wu dae to the Baiik(induding'
f 1,400,000, due for our mtoek in that in-
ititutiaTi) the Rum of (excluding the Loon
of 400,000, to pi.7 the inatklment due in
Amiterdun) . - - - BfiOOfiOl)
Leuving- a baUiice, beyond Mdinui; expeod-
- 18,400,01
He believed no man. at the
(he Government, would have predicted that
Bucce3a,and under such circumstances, could have
attended its administration.
Mr. S. then proceeded lo a particuUr Btaleroen
of the several Loans which had heen madeof thi
Bank. By which it appeared that $2,500,000 had
been loaned at five, and the residue al six per cent.
That one million of thix was adrBDcetf for the
•uppression of the insurrection, and another mil'
lion (including 9200,000 had of the Bank of New
York) for the peace with Algiers. That, in the
former instance, the Garernmenl had been ena-
bled, by the aid it received from that institution,
to quel) without bloodshed an insurreuiion raised
by misrepresentation and falsehood — an insurrec-
tion which threatened the peace, liberty .and hap-
piness of this country, and lo deluge our land with
the blood of cootendiag brelhreu. In the tatter
instance, the aasistaoce we had received had been
the means of unchaining our citizens held in cruel
and savaie slavery.
It ouffhl to be ret
Block or the Bank a
than $2,000,000. To this Had been added $600,
000, paid by the United States. From this state-
ment, it was obrioQs that the Bank muxt, to afford
the accommodation which it had lo Government,
have disposed of a considerable portion of that
part of its capital which consisted of funded stock —
« stock bearing an inlerecl of six per cent., with
ample funds mortgaged for its security. This
■ecurity had been rehnquished ; the proceeds had
agaia been intrusted to the Government, and for
a considerable [lart al a lower rate of interest.
For their security they had relied alone on the
public faith, the result of this question 4ould de-
cide the value of the pledge. They now demanded
a fulfilment of the public en<^geiuents. Money
we had not. They were witling to receive pay-
ment of the same nature, su'wianiially, as that
which they had disposed of, lo olnaiu the money
which they had lo.ined, and would negotiate the
aales of it without any expense to the United
States. Under these offers, the most fair and rea-
sonable which could be expected, the question was
whether we would violate the public faith by re-
jecting the demand}
It had heen agreed, and w,7s indeed most evident,
thai the Bank could not, eoniistently with itH in-
terest or safety, make any further advances, whai-
everihe public exigencies might be. Should any
onforeseen pressure occur, where was the Gh>-
nnry auppliea?—
ed. Not from pri-
veroraeni to obtain ihe i
Not from Europe, it wm agreed.
vate individual*, because the ealeipriaiiig capi-
tslista in this conntry could more profitably eni'
ploy their rapital than by Loans to the Govem-
menl; nolfrom other t>anks,becauM theircaiMtala
were inadequate to supply (he demanda of indi-
viduals, which was a more lucrative branch of
their businexs. Besides, did none of these objec-
tions exist, who would iotruat their property in
the hands of a GovemmeDt which made its owa
convenience, and not the BtipiilatidoB of ila cob-
trafts, the rule of its conduce m fulfiUiag, or more
properly violating its promises? What, tken,
werelo be the circumstances of this eouniry io the
event of an unfore&een demand, for which every
Qovemment ought to be prepared 1 If war, or
insunection, or captured citiiens, ahouM rcqaire
oui aid, would our Government be in the tiina-
tion to grant that relief and protection for whieb
the guardians of its security and happiness ought
always to be prepared? But the gentlemmn Md
said, that this measure would protract tbe P'nud
of the ultimate extinguishment of the Publio
Debt. This wasa circumstance Which he thought
no honest man ou^t lo lake into coasidemion.
We ought only lo inquire into the amoimt and
terms of the public contneb, andfwiltioot hesita-
tion or further inquiry, to ^rform them with good
faith. But he did not believe this measure would
in the kasl degree shackle the pablie Atcoltiea.
It had already been staled, by his fnend from
South Carolina, [Mr. Smitb,} tb>t,antil the year
1800, bnides the $600,000 required by the reduc-
tion law, another $WO,000 wonld be ixecasaary to
perform the pdiliceogagemeais. It was known that
after that lime another aoDUal demand of $l,30a^<
000 would occur. We had, besides ■ considerable
amount of Foreign Debt, $1,200,000 of unfunded
debts, (he bad spoken in round numbers,) and the
whole three per ceoli. to operate upon. Was
there not here, in the opinion of the most san-
guine man, sufficient subjects for the existing fac-
ulties of the community, or for any which coald
be creiUed? If, then, no injury could accrue to
the public, it would seem to him mere wnntonncn
to reject the proposition.
But it had been said that the public bad a right
to expect aecommodaiion from the Bank, becauK
we were large depositora and large stocldiclders.
How, he asked, were those accommodations to be
obtained 1 By contracts, or wiihout them 1 We
had been accommodated by mutual agreement,
and might be a^in if we honestly performed our
engagements. Were we to obtain those accom-
modations by a violation of public faith 1 Ha
hoped and believed not. Having received the
Srojwriy of the institution by contract, and re-
ismg to perform our engagements, from what
source was the Bank to expect reimburaemeni ?
It was answered, by taxes. Indirect taxes, how^
ever, the gentleman had eoniiantly resisted. No
taxes had been imposed the present session ; none
to any considerable amount probably would be.
On these the gentleman did not depend ; he had
at all times oppoeed them, ti a member of the
;dbv'G00gle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
033
ApaiL, 170CJ
Otbt due Bank of the Unittd aiatu.
(H.o
Connnitlee of Wiy* and Meani. Thrw Loanii,
then, were to be satisfied by direet taxes. It would
become proner, ib«D, to coasider whether at alt.
and if at all, when pajrmeDt inizbt be espected
by thiMe means? Pirect Uxes, £e said, had tot-
tier been coniiderad ai the subilitutea for everf
tax wbich had been proposed. He could not help
ohseif'mg that it wu well kaowa that every
Hanse prerions tu the present, aod he did not be-
liere this would be found an eiception, had been
decidedly opposed to byiog direct taxes. On the
CamDiiitee of Ways and AJeans it was found thai
direct taxes, in the opinion of some fcentleinea',
were to be reoorted to. A nub-committee wa:
tppoinied to consider the subject, who, after ma-
Ian deliberation, reported that the laving and col-
lectiug a direct tax was practiea'ble, out that they
had not, and could not obtain, the prevent session,
the materials necessary for that purpose. The
buiinets finallf resulted in the direction to the
Becreiary of the Treasury to report a plan for
eODsideralion at the next session.
He did not beltrve that any pEan which could
be. devised would meet the ajqirobaiioii of the
two branehea of the Legislature. Although he
ihouLd always be willing to consider the sub-
ject with candor, yet he much doubted if he,
eren in a time of tranquility, should assent to a
mode of taxation which would be so burdensome
and oppressive. But should it obtain the' next
•essioD, he asked, would ic be productive to the
■moani necessary to discharge those demands
vhicboughtiMiw to be satisfied! It would, doubt-
less, with every degree of success which could be
supposed to attena the measure, -be some years
before the payment which is now demanded in
the terms of contraclj eoald be made. In the
mean time the operations, of the Bank are to be
crippled, and the G>ovemment left without any
resource in cose of the most pressing emergency,
fit had made these observations from a sense of
public duty, from a regard to the preservation of
public faith, and without any personal interest,
Dever having bad (he least property in the Bank.
Mr. Gallatin wid tbat the question now be-
fore them was, whether t^y should fiin,d tl>e
■Diicipaiions on the revenue, which had been
advanced by the Bapk, aod amounted to ft3,80O,-
000, or whether ibey would, by refusing (o fund
that sum, declare their intention to provide means
for discharging those snticipat i(»it 1 It wasagreed
DD all hands that they were preesiog hard on the
Treasury; that they must reader the situation of
the gentleman at the head of that Department
precarious and unpleasant; that they were a dear
mode of procaiiag money, and that some means
must be devised to get rid of them. Upon (he
11.200,000 (ivhich together with the $3,800,000.
antieipatioDs, made the smn of five millions con-
templated bv the bill) there was no difference ol
opiniao. Tnis last sum coTisisted of thefOllowing
ileras ; instalment due to Holland, $400,000 ; '
ioetalments due to the Bank of the Uivited St
for the Bank Stock Loan, $1^,000; and due to
the Banks of New York and the Uhiled States,
for the Algiers Loan, $400,000. For the
Irst items no provision had been contemplated,
'Kcept new loans. The taxes appropriated for
the repayment of the last bad proved insufficient.
These several sums, of $1,SD0,000, had or would
become due during (he course of the present year,
must be provided for. Even if they were oi
Dpiqion to raise new revenues, those could no^ be
productive during the coarse of the present year,
and BO resourfie Was left but to borrow ; and If
money could not be got except upon the terms
contemplated hy tbe bill, however averse be was
to the funding of a debt and pcfstponing the time
s payment to so remote a period, he saw at
present no alternative, and they were forced 10
acquiesce in the measure. But this was not the
case with the $3,800,000 a.itKipations. The Bank
had heretofore continued their to^s in anticipk-
of our revenues from year to year; (bera
no official paper before them to show that
they meant to do so no longer, and that that insti-
iioa had required tbat tut sunt should be paid
pnce during the present year. It was not con-
templated by the Secretary of (he Treasury, at
the opening of (he session; for, in his report to
the House, of the 4th of December, he 'says:
" Bui as a great proportion of the revenue arising
from imports is subject to long credit, the custom-
ary anticipaiioas, by means oriiwos, willaontinin
to be necessary." And a^n, after having stated
the deficiency of $1,200,1X10 for the tame objecU
above mentioned, he saysr "Theie are otbei
loans detailed in the annexed statement which
will also fall due to (he Bank.of the United Statei
in the course of the ensuing year ; but as they ars
merely anticipations of the revenlie,for refniidiiig
w:hich there exist legal provbions, they are intrV*
duced to show the course of receipt and expendi-
ture, anl the extent to which future antieipationa
will be requisite." And finally aives as a conclu-
sion, " that the anticipations ol' tbe revenue which
may exist at the close of the present year, must
be continued for the year ensuing."
Indeed the gentlemen who press the measure of
funding ihese antiulpaiions, seem to do it from ft
belief that it will be a measure advantageous to
the United States. He would therefore consider
the subject at present only in regard to the inte-
rest of the public, and upon a supposition that (be
Bank were iviiling, provided the instaloients of
the other loans were regularly paid, lo continue
the loans in anticipation oT Ine revenue, and
would be satisfied provided a gradual and certain ,
mode of repayment were adopted. It was, there-
fore, on this ground that he difiered in opinion
with the geniremen who wished the whole of the
five millLons to be funded. The plan of those
gentlemen, ip order lo get rid of thfse anticipa-
tions, is (0 fund tliem, that is to say, in order to
pay them, to borrow money by creating a slock
irredeemable for twenty-three .yean; in other
words, (0 postpone their payment for twenty-
(hree yenrs. His plan was, to provide means for
paying them in four or five year.', and to raise a
reveuuc, either by increasing the (axes or dimin-
ishine (he expenditure sufficient for that purpose.
His plan was lo pay; the plan of (hose gentlemea
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF OONGRKSS-
H. OF K.J
Debt doe Bank of the IMUtd State:
not to pay, but to borrow, lo continue the debt for
tweaty-taree yeara longer; anti be would not
hesitate to repeat that tbe effect of ibai plan
woulil be to perpeitiate tbe debt. He would not
be deterred by aaj personal abuse, and no more
br thaiof ibe geoilemaQ rromMassActinseits \J>Ar.
SenawicKj than by ibat of any other person, Iron)
expressing bis sentimeats on thai subject as well
as on any other ; and coaw:ioas as he was that
personal abuse would have no influence upon him,
and nerer could prereol his doing what ha thought
(o be his duty, Ke would, without remarkiog oo
what hod Mien from that gentlemno. iiroceed to
that part of the subjeol which seemed to be the
most important.
A question had miarally arisen whilst those
aniicipKtion* were under consideration: Mow bad
they acenniiilated to that amounf? Some gen-
tlemen had been at great pains to prove to the
Home that they were not a proof that (he Debt
of the United States had increased ; some, indeed,
bad gone so ikr as to attempt lo prote that they
were no dell at alL He would bee the Commil-
lee to recollect that neither himself nor any other
mmber of this Hotue bad said that the Debt had
incrraaed ; ihey had not touched that subject opon
the p«B«nt occcaioB. It might be supposed thai
h was not strictly in order to discuss it, bat as the
Siestion waa started br the gentlemen in favor of
e measure now under Consideration ; as their
lotBDiion y(M. by repreMoting our fioaneial sitn-
ation in the point Of view they had, to persuade
this House that there was no danger in going on,
ai.ticipaiing and (bnding, spending money, and
borrowing ; and as tbe gentleman Inst op [Mr.
SbdowickJ hrid given them a statement ot ten
millions of dollars debt actually redeemed and
•ztingnisbed, not to speak of some other millioos
operated uponj be found himself impelled to take
Bp the stibject, and to state what appeared to him
fo be our preHent situation.
He first staled that he would compare tbe whole
amount of actual receipts in the Treasury, as
arising from the resources of the couotry, aiid
excluding whatever had been received by meani<
of Domestic or Foreign Loans, with the whole
■mount of actual disbursements for the current
expenditures of Qovernment and the interest on
tbe Public Debt, excluding whatever had been
applied lo the pajiment on redemption of the prin-
cipal of the Public Debt. If the eipendiiures had
- exceedetj the receipts, the difierence toust have
been suinilied by borrowiiif^ money, by creating a
debt. ,He then stated 82,759^2 56, as the excess
of expenditures over the receipts from the esta-
Mishtneul of this Qovernment to the 31st Decem-
ber, 1794, the latest period to which complete
■tatements have been laid before the House. But
from that sum must be deducted the foilowjog
sums, which were applied by the Sinking Fund
to the redempcioD of the Domestic Debt, out of
the actual rewurces of tbe United Stales. For.
he observed, he ought not to take into account
what might have been redeemed by (he applica-
tion of moneys drawn from loans ; as this was
and paying with th« otber.
Applied to the Sinking Fond - ^967,770 «5
Certain claims under, (he old
Chtvernment, not fonded and
paid, he rated at - - 450,000 OO
$1,407,770 6S
Total amoont of debt reduced by the spplicatiua
of the actual rewurceaof the United States, which
sum. being deducted from the above sum of
^,759,2S8 56, leaves an actual debt ot abooi
ii,350.000 on this score.
As far as he could judge from the official ac-
counts of the year 1795, he waa of opinion that
the excess of expendittlres over receipts for thai
year had created an increase of debt of at least
91,000,000, bat which he thought would be fomtd
to amonnt to (1,500,000.
Those two soms made a total amoust oT afaotf
$2,800,000, being the excess of expenditores ovet
the receipLi, I'rom tbe estaWiahnwni of this O^
▼ernmeni to the 1st of January, 1796. To prove
his assertion he prodnoed thcfUlowiiigsMteBeD^
absiraeted fkim the official yearly doatnncnts:
SnNHABY Statbmbmt, exhibiting the receipit
into the Treasury from Domestic resonteea,
other than the proceeds of Domestic Loans;
and also (be expenditures of the United States
charged to the said Funds other than fur the
repayment of Domestic Loaos.
Am* lAe ecmmenctnunl of tie prttmt Gntmmttt
fo the mi ifOe year \T9l.
RBCE1PT8.
From dutisa on inaorti and tmaaapi - (4, 300,471 9»
From snndiiw ... 3Si SS
■riiich
BXPBNIHTDnS&
For tbe Civil List, in«Ia£nf anouMes
■nd grants. f719,«a SS
For the Wsr Deinrtment, indudhig
penaotts to bviiida ind fndisa ex-
pensss - - B3C,«17 fli
(W,HS of this sum appOad to Fnnee.}
"-- *- "-■ " with lerdgu oa-
l4,T3t 3S
light-lMUSE^
tnUs of Iha
United Stalea, ooi>Ungent axpenaca
of Gov
cnlhn
For soodiy claina visiiis frota the tala
Govemimnt ...
For inUrsMon Ae Pablk Debt, vU :
On sccoontof tbs interest en the Duidi
DebtlbrihejeBrl790 {36,087 II
One jar's interest
(1 70 1 loathe Pleach
Debt • • 3>4,44& 93
H.4ei It
Wa,013 H
.d by Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
„ 17«i.J
Deia due Bank o^ tht United States.
Ona jtaf% lnterat en
Dutch Debt - - «n,S73 »
One jeM** inUrM dh
Spuikh Debt - 8,700 U
One jau'a intowt on
DoDinlKUebt -1,140,177 SO
For laantjw adnnced to Moons ud
OIney, . - - -
For inUTnaton Domntle Loam
Tiand(mdlot*lnkui{rFDnd, Mogpcit
c< ttw ■arplniraTEDiM of ITM
Bakiice ta &tm of tbe TroMuy
For Me year 1793.
KEOBIFTH.
From dntlr* on impotia tod toDiiigg -y8,B79,499 OS}
in stillB BUI
■nd domatic du-
elled aprnta
From halance of Buk dlvidatd
Fmn mndnM - - . -
From balance* dne on aecomta wUcb
miginated nndet ItM 1Mb Gortni-
7a,SU B9i
8,018 DO
T,Sni SI
EXPBNDITCItEa.
For amdrj olaiaa wMng fiom dw 1M«
Chil Lilt (bat tndoding u
iTMK*} . - . _
War D«partineat, m per abovs *
BandiiM. iMdadiag m ps abore, a«d
lotNMt on Ibe PuUie Debt &T tba t«v
tTH, Th :
On Domartic tMA - #S,S73,S11 S8
On Foreign Debt - STB,88B 68
Tiaufernd to Sinking Fund, •■ pel
8,0Aa,0SI 91
S6?,7BS 4S
Far the ytar 1793.
BBCEIFTS.
fvm dntiaa on iniporta tnd tonnage - ^4,344,358 S6
From dntiea ott Mills and Aw]n*^f|p
diriUsd siJRts
Balance of Bank ditidend
s arisbg from the Itte Oo*ern-
34S,B-'i4 on
88.6)10 00
1S,S63 30
EIPBWIwrtlBBS.
[indiy daima aiiwig front the lata
334,168 SS
1,S»7,«II9 IS
131,066 96
Balance in tafot of the Timso^
For Me year 1794. .
RECEIPTS.
Fromdulieaon impartsand tannage - ]
FroDi duties on itiEb and otber inletnal
Balance of Bank dividend
EXPENDirURES.
For Mindr; clMnw atiHny Ihan the lalo
MMt-
W1.4<7 «&
SA,S0O 00
fiS,6et 47
Civil LiM
War
844 9i<, tat militih on fha'
eiMdiiian, and MS.049 60 for lor.
tiAeatioM - - .
Hani Anaaaent ...
Snndriea . - . .
ExtnordinaiT «
with forrign i
Inlereal on Domealic
Debt - - #S,4RA,8Rt M
On do I.o«n« ■ 48.BS4 44
On Potvign Debt 674,410 S8
1,738,630 S»
61,408 97
170,630 49
3,178,061 »7
>6,eB4,eii7 93
iSatael o/ (A« year 1796.
RBCBrPTS.
I dutire on imporU and tonnage .- |S,S98,981 S8
From doiiM on itilla, spinb^ snnfT,
sugar, earriagea, salaa at ancliun, li-
eman an TMailen {a) - . 33T.SG6 36
iidc ditidend (whole anMont) • I60,0( 0 00
Hnnd-ies .... 4I,36» 68
leee arisbg from lata Gorenunent fi,fll7 96
icedeScient - . . 1,403,161 63
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
Debt doe Bank of the UnUed Stale*.
EXPENDirUBES.
Civil T^ , - . .
Wir Deputinsnt (incltkUns militarr
penMoiM, liirtificatiaD*, ■ml aipciuca
of WeMemeipeditioD)
NiT«l AnnuDsot' - . •
BondriM . -■ - -
Eitnofdinary ezptiMM of iolMeonna
vllb foreign nadoM ' ■
InlBiot on Domnliii
Det>l(i) - -9S,Iie,61ftN
On DooiMUe i.auu • 248,099 99
OnForBi«iiD«l>t(0 T3S,SS1 00
a,BBB,4>0 4«
410,661 03
lOS.sn 91
(i) TbU ii Um unonnt dna for one yen ; the am
•ctludlrP>idatth*Tr«Murrwu$S,TST,esg 07. The
iitbnac* umbi bom (be pajment of two par cent, made
00 the ail par ceot. wtotk. ^ which ia not ditT|eJ ben u
« currant eipanJItnia j it being a ndMnftion of prind-
pahofDebt.
(() Tlua anm i« not aecuralei
Sea^ilalatien of Balaiuti.
RECBIPTa
In faioT of Tiaaaniy, Slat DocunbOT,
1791 ... - »87,0t0 71
Por the year 1TB3 - - ISl.Ua 37
DiOBreiua batween balatioe itatad in
17B1 and that diarged to TreaaiiTar 10
Balaoee deSciant on 31«t DeeenlMi,
1794 .... S^75B,!18S 66
>».W8,a«5 76
EXPENDirVRES.
Balance deSdMitia 1793 - - tI,S17,6&0 00
Balanca deficient in 17B4 • - t,4eO,S7a UG
RBCBIPT8.
Snma appW to pay the piincipil of
debta, vix:
To tha Sinking Fund,
in 179U and 1791 ■ 9899,081 38
Do. in 1792 - - 357,788 43
Tocivm* aiiiingfrom lateGovemniont
in I7HB, 1790, and 17B1 -
IMin 1793 - . -
Do. 17BS>
Dn. 1794S "
Balance daficiant on the litof January,
1798, being tha cicen of current
expenditnrea beyond receipt*, to that
date ....
EXPBNDITUBEB.
Dalanee deadent per.eoatiB - - 'C3,7&0,383 U
Balance eMimated m deficient fat tb«
year UVS .... 1,403,361 61
«4,I6I,S34 19
Thii amount bed been expended beyond ibe
moneys acluilly received into tlie Treasury whick
arose from out own resources. It had been (sup-
plied by Domestic and Foreign Loans, and wasin
increase of debt. Whatever other debts migte
ba*e been discharged durias the same period were
paid out of the proceeds of other loans; for the
Cuimnittee would see that in tbe statement he
had produced thai be had accounted foribewAofa
□f tlie moneys paid into the Treasury other than
what arose from loans. All other expendiiurea
whatever, beyond thkt amount, must liare pro-
ceeded from loans, and the deficiency in those
moneys to meet the current expenditure was aUo
supplied by loans, and was an increase of debt.
But this wa£ not all; he bad cTediird the ac-
oount for the sums (arising from the surplus of
the revenue oF 1790) applied to the Sinking Fund;
Tor a sum of near one miilioQ of dollars applied to
purchase the priociMl of the Domestic Debt iJ
the United States. Tbi* might have bera an ad-
vantageous operation; it had certaiulv the good
effect tocontribate to the raising the Public Stocks
to theii real value ; but it must be considered that
the reason which had enabled Qovernment to ap.
ply any monejrs to the purchase of the princiiml
of the dsbt, whick had produced a sar[rfus of the
revenue of 1790, was, that the interest on the Con-
tinental Debt was not paid till 1791. In the year
1790, whilst they were diminishing the principal
of the debt, by purdhsea of about one million of
dollars in specie; the interest on the principal of
the Domestic CoDitaental Debt, amounting fot
one year to one million eight hundred tbousand
dollars, did accrue, remained unpaid, wxs funded,
and made a clear addition to the debt of three
per cent, slock to that amount.
The Assumed Debt afiTorded another item. He
was not going at present to calculate' the effect of
that measure on (be settlement of the accounts of
ibe individual Slates; but merely supposing that
debt to be a debt of (he Union, to show its increase
under (he present Government. Qovcrnmeaidid
not begin to pay its iD(erest (ill 1792. It was dif-
ficult to determine what the interest for the two
preceding years should be set down at, owing to
the original primjipal and interest being blended
in funding. He calculated the interest on two-
thirds of Us nominal amount at nineteeti miU
; he called the two-thirds twelve millions.
Interest on the assumed debt id 1790
and 1791, not paid but funded - «1,440,000
Part 3 part 6 per cent, and part defer-
red stock, which, added to the $1,800.-
000 last mentioned, form a total of - "3 ,240 000
Addition to the debt from the non-payioent of in-
terest in 1790 and 1791.
He bad not, he said, before him a correct state
.dbyGoogle
mSTORY OF CONGRESS.
April, 1796.]
Defa due Bank nf tlie United Slate*.
[H.c
ment of ihe interest of the ForeisD Dubt for llii
year 1790, which was paid oul a( ihe proceeds of
ForeigD Lnaos, hbA doC out of our domestic
■outcei. He would eitimale it at $500,000.
BEUAPITCLATIOIf.
Excess of expenditure OTPr receipts OQ
the 31st December, 1794, after de-
Excess of expenditure for Ihe year 1795
eniimaiedat - - - - n 1,500,000
Oae years' interest on principal of
Funded Domestic Dehi, for Iheyear
1790, nbout •1,800,000 three per cent,
slock created. Valued at - - - 900,000
Two years inierest (1790 and 1791) on
principal of Funded As-'umed Debt,
eNlimaling said principal at $12,000,-
000, will be #1,4*0,000, of which 1-3
is three per cent., 4-9 six per cent.,
and 2-9 deferred stock, may be val-
ued at - - - ■ - - . - 1,050,000
One year's interest (1790) on Foreij;n
Debt, estimated at ■ - - - 500,000
5.300,000
Which sniD, as he meant only to give a rough
■ketch, and as he had neglected sundriei, (such as
Iba proceeds of the iDterent of the Sinking Fund.)
he would call only 6ve million of dollars.
Asaidst this iicrease of debt, ha remarked, that
the amount of the bond» due at the eustom-houaes
was set off; the amount was stated hy Mr. Sedo-
wicE Bt $4,500,000. But. he obserTod, this sum wa«
not actually due, but lo become due to the United
States. Impost is a tax on consumption j upon
that principle it U, that the merchaiti, when he
lands his goodi, onlf bonds the dutiea, which are
collected from the iudividual consumers when
they purchase the article, and repaid by ibe mer-
ehaot aflei a lapse of time deemed sufficient for
him to have received them from the consumer;
these bonds only secure the collection of the du-
ties when they become due. A clear proof that
the amount of these bonds could not be set off
against the amount of antidpatiaDs wu. that ft
could not be ajiplied to those anticipations. If it
could be applied so, why was the proposal made
U» fund them initead of paying them T But Che
bet was, that those bonds constituted not the ac-
tual revenue of the year on which they were giv-
en, but the actiuil revunue of the year on which
ihey were paid. The bonds outstanding on the
1st of January, 1796. consiitutfd in part the reve-
nues of the years 1796 and 1797, would be barely
■ufficirnt, and were altogether wunting to dis-
charge the current expenditures of thou years;
■nd as Ihey were no part of the receipt or actual
revenues of the year 1795 and those preceding,
as they could not be applied to dischajge any
Sart of the expenditures of those years or of the
pbt contnictea to defray those expenditures, they
eould not be tubstiocted from them or be set ocT
•gainM such debt.
On the other partof M^r.SsoowicK'a
he remarked, that the gentleman had first slated
ten millions of dollars, in the lump, as esiraotdU
nary expenditure, he [Mr.G.]had given cheQom-
mitlee an acconni of sU the expenditures, and
Ihey might jodge of what were extraordinary and
what ordinary. He had not himself made any
such dislinclion, and had thought it sufficient to
distinguish the expenJiiure of moneys applied to
pay the principal of a debt from all the others. It
was, lo be sure, a most extraordinary method of
proving that a Public Debt was decreasing, by
stating tbat a part of the moneys expended were
spent fnr extraordinary poroses and ought to be
credited to QorernmenI, instead of constitutiag
an article of expenditure. The other differences
between his and tbat gentleman's statement arose,
Isl. From that sentleman having*staled the nom-
inal amount of ine debt purchased, although a pro-
portion was three per cent, and Deferred Stockj
whilst he bad stated the amount of moneys ap-
plied, to purchase the same. 2dly. From Mr.
StnowicK having credited Qovernment for alltha
purchases of Public Debt, and payment of iostalt
ments to the Bank, (for Bank stock,) ^vhich had
been made with moneys borrowed in Holland,
without charging ibem for the moneys thus bor-
rowed. 3dly. From his stating the bonds out*
standing, and which would become due durioa
the present and ensuing year as moneys in hand!
If from itie total amount credited by tltat gentle-
man to Government, viz: $10,100,000, were de-
ducted the following sums, viz:
Extraordinaryexpeose*- $10,000,000
Out-standiogboods - 4,500,000
Paid to the Bank (out of
the proceeds of Fo-
reign Loans) - - 600,000
Purchase of public stock
out of proceeds of Fo-
reign Loans fand ex-
cess of n ominal beyond
real value) - - 1,550,000
Amounting, altogether, to - - $16,650,000
Those credits would be reduced to the
sum of - - - - - - 3,450,000
which sum being subtracled from the Domestic
Loans, amounting to $6,300,000, as stated by that
Jenttenian,Ief^ according to his own account, a
eficiency of $2,750,000, which was the Fame
amount be [Mr. G.I had lUted as the cxceu of
expenditures beyond the receipts on the 1st of
January, 1796. On all the facts, therefore, they
were agreed, and aa to matters of opinion, , the
Committee might decide who were in the right.
The facts agreed on were, that the excess of ex-
pendittyes over the receipts amounted to about
$2,800,000 i that the interest had accrued unpaid
during Ihe year 1790 on the whole, and during
the year lYOl on a part of the Domestic Debt, and
had produced an increase of thai debt; and that
there were bonds outstanding to an amount of
$4,500,000. Whether the debt was increased or
.dbyGoogle
931
BISTORT OF C(»iaSE9S.
933
H.OPR.J
Debt doe Bmk of lAe UniUd Statet.
[Af«l,1796.
■ot J whether those boudi wouU be lei offa^ost
tb« tncreue of that debt migat be a mailer of
opinioa; and, leaving that qaeMJonaMde, the fact
m* not lees Irae thai there Was a debt to be pro-
Ttded Tor, ^aod it was the object of the bill to pro-
Tide fur it,) to the pajrtueot of which these bonds
eoiild not be applied.
He bad alTeadf stated that the plan propped,
bf filling the blank with five milliiiDR of dollars,
was to postpone the paymeDt of the aaiicipalions
for iweo If -three years; that bis plan was to par
(hero within a short lime, at least not to put it
ont of the power of the United Biates lodo ii
whenerer ther were able. But it was said there
was no probaottitf of their being in that situation
for a long time, and, therefore, that no iocODTe-
nience would arise from the irredeemabilitj which
was to be annexed to the new stock; ana the re-
port of the Gonunittee of Wa^s Bad Means had
Men meoiioDod in support of that optaion. He
woold'call the attention of the House to that re-
port, in order to show that his own Tiews were
perfecilr coDsonanl to that report. The Commit-
lee of Ways and Means stale. ■■ That, in order to
dtMshuge the anticipations, Domestic Loans and
Foreign Debt, it will be necessary either to pro-
Tide rurther revenues or obtain new loans ; but
thai, to far <u relaUt to the additional ej^pmdi-
ture o/'91,146,370 34, which will be requited al^er
the year 1BO0, to discharite the annuity on the De-
ferred Sxock, an adtquate additional nvmuevuiti
be provided after thai year. That, if thai addi-
titmal recenue fwhieh it will be nece&sary at all
crents to provioe aflter the year 1800) be raised
fnrn a»td ajter the pretnt year, it will not only
discbarge the aforesaid anouiiy, out viU alto re-
ipdmne (4^00,000 m pari if the antidpatioru.
loaoi, and Foreign Debt, b^re the year 1801, and
the whole of the Domestic Loans and anticipa'
tioot before the year 1807; leaving them a re-
deemed annuity of $396,000, to be applied to the
reimbursement ef the Foreign Debt. That if an
additional revenue ol tS.OOO 000 instead of tl,30D,-
000 be raised, for a term of twelve years, it will
within that time discharge, besides the annuity on
the Deferred Stoek, and the Domestic Loans and
anttcipationa, the whole of the Foreign Debt and
iheneiT Domestic Debt, bearingan interest of five
and a half and four and a half per cent.; and thai
■1 the en4 of the said twelve years, the annuity re-
deemed by that operation (amounting to $1,113,'
^) vrould, lofivt^er with the revenues now es'
Sbfished, be sufficient to meet all the demands of
overnment' '
It, therefore, appeared that it was practicable
to discharge ttiose anticipations without any in-
convenience; for nothing more was requisiie foi
ttiai parpos^ than to raise from next year that ad-
ditional revenue of t^^OO.OOO, which they musi
necessarily raise in the year 1801, in order lomcei
the denunds of that year. Whether the fevenue
Would be increased to that amount 1)y raising new
IS of CoDgrei's. From llie proposed reduction
of the Military Establishment, woich (he peace
ilh tbe Indians had pat within their reach, thef
_iight entertain well-grounded hop* of a propor-
tionate reduction of expenditures; but be that ai
it migiit, his only object was, at all erenls, that
means should be provided to meet the expenxa
of Oovemment, aod, by doing it in time, to pre-
vent a future accumulation of debt, and to take
effectual measures for a speedy exiinguishmeoE of
the present one. It was with that view that be
had entered ao machat large in the histury of ouc
Snaoees. He did not mean, in so dorag, to \aj
any blame on the Administration. Whether they
were deserving praise or olherwiw was not tw
lubject of the present discussion, and he did not
jaean to express at present any opinion thereoiL
But he wished, by stating what had taken place,
and what was oiu present situation, to impress
upon the House, so nr an it was in his power to
do so, the necessity of having virtue enough to
discharge ourselves of the bunfeoiandnotto entail
the corse of a groaning debt upon posterity. Jt
had been asserted that we were inyiog off our
debt very fast, in order to lull us into a belief that
no barm could arisp (rom commuting an antici-
patioo into a Funded Debt, irredeemable for a
lumber of yean, in order to persuade as that, not
vi lbs landing that operation, notwithsiaadiitg the
ccumulation of those anlicipatiuna, our ulnaliaB
.vas most brilliantand advsntaMons. A» tohim-
self, he could not see any beDeBtaridngfrom such
palpable exaggeiations, from so deceptive a view
of tbe subject; and he had brought before tbe
Comnittee the resnlt, not uf his omi researchesi
bat of the official statements upon their table, in
order to prove the fallacy of the ideas which had
so long and m oHen been held out on this floor
and to the people at Urge, in order to show (he
true cause of those ulieipations, the excess of ex-
penditures over the receipts.
He had no desire to examine what was the tb-
ject of the gentleman who diffend with him in
opinion OR this question ; but. certain be was. that
the efed of their plan, if adopted, would be to
perpeinate theevils which had already taken place
and to lay the foundation for a further increase ai
the Public Debt. The motnent the principle was
ado, ted, first to tntielpaie upon the revenue, to
spend more than we received ; and then, when
those anticipations began to press uboo tbe Qov-
ernmeut and upon the lenders lo hind them, lo
render them irredeemable. lo provide for the psv^
meut ofiK/erMt only, and not of tbt primeipai j
ibe method would appear so easy that it wonld
un oubtedly be contmued. We would anticipate
again, and two or three years hence fund the
amount of anticipations, in order to beaUe to make
new ones. The increase of taxes would be so
small that the people wonld not be alarmed, and
thus we nculd be enaUed to lavish the public
money, without being checked by the difficulty of
raising it.
If such motives could influence Congress, they
wonld have a ffr more powerful effect on iht
mind of tne man who mi^t be at the head of tbe
financi s of this country. Whoever that man was,
he would be desirous of having the command of
.dbyGoogle
HBTQBY OP CONOBBBS.
884
April, 1796.J
Debt due Bank oj the Vniteft StuitM.
[H.ofR.
little as poiBible
MtUfy all the demands agaia*t GoTemmeU,
spread abuodance through every department ; ii
would »Te him the itkwme task of refusing mo-
it would acquire bini (he reputatiou jef supporiiDg
ID its punty public credit and public boaor ;
wbikl a caTefuI attention not to increase the pub-
lic bnrdeni would pieserre his popularity ana bis
power. This naturally led to the xysteta of bo(-
rowioSf of spending the prineipnl and of paying
only tne interest. Sucfi had been fbreTer ibe
conduct of eTerr Anaficial Admiuistrstion, in
e?ei7 cotuti/ where the sytteni had once been
iotrodnced. To fund now and then a floating
debt, navy bills, or any other detcriptioo of &dU-
cipatitHU, wt« the usimI practice in BngUod. The
consequences to that country, the enofmoui accu-
mulattoii of debt which had taken ^ae* there, re-
qaired no eomment With the example of that
nation, with the still mote strikiujg esample of
France, where accomalated anticiMtions, «fler
diey bad so far exhausted their credit a« not to be
aUe even to fund, had first stopped, and finally
o?er*et Gorentmeat itself, ha tboogfat America
iDtghi well panse before tdey gave a Moclipn to
the fat»l piinciple, before they adopted the repro-
bated mooe of exoeeding their income, and fif sup-
plying the dcfipiency by creating an irredeemable
stock.
The simation of the gentleman new at the
bead pf the department was doubtless delicate
and uapleasant ; it was the more so when fiom-
C red with that ot his predecessor. Both indeed
dbad ihesamepower to borrow money when ne-
eesaryj but that power which was efficient in
the hands of the late Secretary, and liberally
enough used by him, was become useless al pre-
MnU At home the anticipatioua and Domestic
Loans bad grown up till ibe Baok could lend no
more, and in Europe the eircnmstaneesof the war
had pat a stop to Dutch Loans. He wished the
present Secretary to be extricated from his pre-
sent diffici)lty ; nothing .couU be mor« paiofiil
than to b^at the bead of tbaldeparlment within
empty Treasury, a reveaue inaaequate to the ez-
peitses, and no meaps to boiroW' Ha th«f<Aire
wisbed to provide for the exjgepcies ot the praaaat
year by funding the $l^liSjOOO, juid for ihit n-
nuindw of tb« demands againat OpTeraBeat by
iocreasing the rereoue. Nor wssbesurpristdthat
the SecKtaryT donbting wbcthei Ccmmn wc '
adopt that mode, had stigguted the plan now.
der Gonaideralioa.
origiinated. He bad shown, from the first report
of the Secretary lo the House, that, at that time,
be contemplated, or at least had presented toCtw-
grexs, only a cootioustion of the (3,800,000 anti-
eipaiions. ItappeanshoweTerj.thathe bad made
an application to the Bank, m order to know
whetner he could obtain farther Loans. It was,
in answer to that demand, (hat the Bank had de-
dared tbat they had lent as much and. more than
they could convcDieotly, thai they wished the
amount of their advances to be diminished, and,
at all events, they could not lend any mure, uoIcm
the former Loans were discharged. The anitwer
pf the Baok he had had a few minutes, although
it was not officially eommuntcBted to the Com-
mittee of Ways and Means ; and as it seems it
was in the possewion of the gentleman of Ma>-
sacbuselts [Mt. ScDOvtca] he miabt rend it to
the House if not properly staled. The Becretary
had, io consequence of that answer, suggested the
plan, now Dnder considuation, to tne Commiltoe
of Ways and Means in the latter end of Decem-
ber. Mi. O. said he entered into that detiil ia
snswer to some obaerrations of Mr. Sbdowick ;
but he meant only to remark, that, on the part
both of the SecrMary aad of the Bank, the prio-
eipal object was to enable that institntioi to lend
■gain, and Qoverameni to make new anticipa-
tions and to obtain BCw-Lonn*.
He thought i^ tbetelbre, not jmtifiahle by aay
official information they had to insist as much as
some gentlemen had done that the neeeaslties of
the Baok had compalled them to apply for the
whole of the Debt due to ihem. and that it was
wholly for the pncpoac of discharging that Debt,
and because we Jreie obliged lo do it that the
plan of fundikg the (5,000,000 was insisted upon.
That [he anticipations bad grown np to an
amount equally burdensome to Oovemment and
to the Bank he was well aware of; and be knew
that it was neee^ry to take eSeotaal measuna
to discha^ Ibeni in agradnalway. But, as it
was impodibte to pay the whole amoaat during
the present year without recurring to new Loana
as it wa* asserted that money could be obiainefl
only by creating an irrcdeeoMihle stock, and a*
the Bank bad made no demand of iho whole to
the Legislature, he was against filling the U^k
with the five mtUioos of dollars. Ind«ed he would
not think it to be a friendly aei in the Bank to iff
si«t upon the whole at oace.
The Bank were in the habit of lendiag moni
lo Gavernment, aad it had always been uoder-
stood that tbey would coniitHie their Loans to a
certain amount, and not wilhdmw abruptly and
unexpectedly (he assistaikee diej had heretofore
given. He Calt that that insliiuuon, not satisfied
with lending to the United Btatn those sums
whieh GoTemmentnaiarally expected from them,
on account at their relative sitoation, had gone
much funber, bad laid tboBselves aader gnU
incOBvenienee; for, as their power to teno waa
limited, they could, not lend loomoeb to Oovem-
ment wiihoat beib^ obliged lo cnrtail the di*-
counts of their cnstomera ; which lost to the
Bank those customers and Uieit deposiies, and of
course narrowed their powers of diseouoliDg and
their profits ; yet lo a ■eriaia amount, the United
Slates bad a right (o expect the assistance of the
Bank. A Bank was enabled lo discount, in other
words to lend money, in proporiioii to its capital,
to the amount of deposiies made them and to (he
eiieni of its notes in circolalioa. The United
Slates held onr-fifth of that capital, tbey were de-
positors lo an amount nearly equal to one-half of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP congress;
936
H. Of. R.J
Debf due Bank of the United Staieg.
[Apal^ 1796.
Ibe original eash capital of tbe Bank, (far, ibeir
deposiie consjateil of tbe balBDce in the Treasury
■moanlJDg on an aTerage to (700,000, Bad of the
moneys paid by ibe Colleclors before (hey had
passed tbe Treasury, wbich probably exceeded
$300,000) and it was welt known that by making
all duties payable in notes of tbe Bank of the
Uuited States, Ihoie notes had acquired a far
more eileosive gtrculation than tboseofaiiy other
Bank. He therefore concluded,' that gratefbl as
we might be to that iustltulion for past service,
we had a just right to expect Loans -to a cet'~'~
amount, aod those not to be discounted at c
If, honever,hcwas mistaken in biiopioion that the
Bank did not want to be repaid th^ whole of their
adviinces, let the ioformation be communicated
in BD ofiicial manner, anil he would wilhd
his opposition.
But even then he could not help lamenting that
the Bank should have chonen such a time as tbii
to make their demand. At a tim^ when the Euro-
pean war prerented the possibility of borrowing
Ibere ; wbea tbe eSects of that war, by b>^>i>f ^
much more profitable employment to capital,
w^re felt in the lame maoaer here; at a time
when money could not be obtained without an
extravagant premium, or a higher Tate of interest,
it was peculiarly disadvantageous to change our
anticipatiaai into a Funded Debt loborrowmoney
nnder'thft eiistiog circumstances; for we were
obliged, in order to obtain money, to affix an irre-
deemable quality to the stock ;'(aDd it was not cer-
tain, whether, even then, mooey could be got on
those terms) from whence two evils flowed ; Isl.
The perpetuating the Debt for the period of time
during which we declared it irredeemable j and,
dered an irredeemable itoek more Talaable to the
porcbBser was lbs i«ry cause which made it dix-
advantageoiM to us, to wit : that we could not
avail ourselves of any event which would bring
the rate of interest (o ila foTraer average. Thus,
4lthongh peace might take place in oae year, atld
moDeyiootitd tbeubvgtK much cheaper, we eonld
not, if Ibe preaenl plait was adc^ted, draw any ad-
TBOtage from thM event, but must continue for
tite whole iwe&ty-three years to pay six per cent,
on the proposed stook.
Nor was this evil the worst to be apprehended.
In his opinion, to postpone the payment of a Debt
for lwenty.4bree yeatm,'wns notonly adeetaration
that WE mewit that pooierity, and not oOrselveB,
ahould pay it, but tn lact it was tantamount to a
ostponement lotever, to a perpetuating of the
S^t
lebt.
In examining thd caotea of the anticipations
and Domestic Xoaus which had thus aeeumu-
laled, three erents were looked upon as being out
of the common eourae, and had ei'en rise to an
extraordinary expenditure, viz: the Indian war,
the Western insDrrection, and the Treaty with
Algiers. Now he would ask, how they could ~~
Bwer for future events 1 and whether it was
within the ordinary eouFce of things, that within
every period of ux oi eight yeara, circumstances
>houlJ take plaoe which would cause exiwndiiure
0 an- equal amount T Indeed, considering their
jittiatioD.' ao Indian war was more or less their
natural state, and the expense of treating and of
tradios with them must at all events be locarred,
and would prove considerable. He wished the
peace with Algiers rai2;ht be permanent ; yet they
had no security that that object would not require
addiliooal expenses. The Western insurrection
was the only object of expenditure which ibev
had well-grounded hopes would never recur, and
which tbey might consider as extrnnrdinary. But,
if they had not that object to provide for. they
would have some other. Forlificalions, Naval
Armament,onforeseen events of every desciiption,
would, in futote, require upon an average an ex-
pense equal to what was called eztraordioary ex-
penditure. It was enough for posterity to provide
for their own time; it was Our duty to divfaarge
ourselves the Debt we had incurred, and If it was
foDod that after six years of peace and unexampled
prosperity we were not able to discharge those
expenses which had nBlaratly arisen from the
course of events during that prosperous periiHl ; if
we declared thai we meant to postpone their pay-
ment, till the present generation was over, we
might well tipect that tlie principle thus adopted
would be cherished, that succeediog (legislatures
and Administrations would follow our steps, and
that we were laying the foondation of that aa-
tional curse — a growing and perpetual Debt.
Mt. HiLLBOCrsB said, the time wasso farelapsed
that he should only ask the attention of the com-
mittee to a few general remarks in answer to the
eenlleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Qallatik.]
It could not be expected he sbuuld'theo go into
the constderatton of tbe minoteand lengthy staie-
rneut of the gentleman. Tivo things bad been
taken for granted by him, which are pot well-
founded, and which b^ing relbted, would overset
bis whole aystem, which are, that tbe United
States are not bound to pay the instalments dne
to tiie Bank ftl this time, but might postpone them,
and apply tbe mohey which shall come into tbe
Treasury during the presentyear to discharge the
expenses of tbe Government, and that the re-
vennes'of each year are only tbe amount of the
moneys actually received into the Treasury m
the eooTse of tbe year. If the gentleman had ex-
amined tbe laws under which these anticipation*
were made, by way of Loan from tbe Bank, be
would have fonnd that all the moneys that saafl
come into the Treasury for duties on goods im-
ported, in the years of 17ft* and 1796, are by law
absolutely appropriated to the discharge of those
Loans, and until they are discharged no pert oT
it can be made nse of for any other purpose. It
is the Government, therefore, ihat wants the ac-
commodation and not the Kink. If theiie antici-
paiions are not funded, resort must be had to tem-
porary Loans to the tameBmouBt,aodsathetanie
operation will be necessary every year, unless a
sufficient revenue can be raised in ene yeartodis-
eharge the enr'ent expenses of two, which, in the
prese.ll state of our Fureigo Debt, insialments of
which are annually fallingdne, there islitlle pros-
ed byGoOglc
937'
H1ST<»IT OP CONGRESS.
ApBl^l7gff.]
Dibt due Bank ofttur United State*.
[H.0
p«t of fiur being able to do. The neoessitj of
those aalicipatiooa oaanot cast any imputatioa on
the administrBtioo or tbe Oorernnient; it arose
fram ibe necessity of the caae. Tbetenaxoo re-
venue arisinfr to Ibis GJTerBmeuc at the lime of
its formation; laws were to be ma 'e and pui in
operation, which could ndt be done so as to briog
ranch maney ioioihe Treasury short of one year;
during that period the expenses of Qsverninent
were going on, and could not be pntd bal by Loan
in aniicipition of the revenue. It was also found
necessary to gise a credit to the meruhants who
were to pay the duties; but, as thp expenses of
each year were nearly equal to the wholeamount
of the impost on the %ooii imported in one year,
. and [he otlier revenues of the United States, this
creJiE could not be rtvea without the sid of these
temporary Loans oT the Bank. It has aUo been
found necessary, (Vom time to time, to eslend tlie
term of credit which is now in some case; eighteen
months, which has also increased the arnouat of
the aniieipatioQs, and although the
most four miltions of dollars, it by :
lows that our expenses exceed our ii
appears by the report of the Secretary of the
Trensury, that there is a moch larger sum due t<
the United Slates oo Custom-house Bonds. Thi
gentlemno [Mr. GALLftTin] admits thni orer atii
abore all Ibe money that will come into the Trea
sury during Ibe present year, which the Secretary
of the Treasury repom would be sufficient to dis-
charge the current expenses of the Oovernment,
tL,3UO,0OQ will be wanted to discharge an iastat-
meot of oar Foreign Debt^and instalments at the
Banks for the Algdrine Loan, &>c. ; but it ought
to be remembered, that the report of tbe Secretary
of the Treasury is founded upon tbe idea of fuoo-
ing thvte aaticipatiuns, and thereby libera ling alt
the mouey that shall come- into the Treasury
during the year; but, if thai it not done, hi
wiabeJ to know from what qaartet
lie obtmined for tbe current ezpensi
It haM been said the annual revenues of thi
'^^1117™°
United States are only to be estimated lo amouBi
to the money actD»lly received into the Treasury.
This did not correspaad with his uoderstandiug
of the matter. He had always supposed the re-
▼enoe oTeach year was to the amounl of the du-
tiea secured at tbe Castom-hoase. lim' goods im-
ported within the jear, and it might as well be
ish] that m individual who reois ■ hDUs« for
$1,000, and takes a bond payable in eighti
moDlhs, has bo iaeonte or rent for that year, be-
tlei
Ids. Ji
e the noyment is postponed. The aanve gvn.
an [Mr. Gat,Lt-nM] had slated that since the
• Itsd, instead of lessening'
r Debt,
Act increased it at f l,5tMO0D. This wa* an idea,
Mr. M. Mtd, wbotiv diSerem from what he had
erer conceived to hare b?eo the case. He had
■npixMed thai notwithstanding the eiiraordfnary
cxp^orp 3f the Alg^rine Lrai. ladina want, '~
surrectio'it, db:., w? haJ, in last, paid a part of i
D 'bt, ai 1 he th m/tt n j other document need be
rdJJ.'tf J t<>l'i pj'>>ireit.bji thjrepj.-ioi tbeSscre-
4(ll Uo3l.— 31
tary of the Treasury in disband, made the pre-
sent session, which stai^ that the neti amount of
revenue irom imports and tonnage, fines and for-
feitures, esclusive of the expense of collBctianand
other charges, was $1,615,574 paid for drawbacks
from the 1st of Jaouaiy, 1794, to the 1st of Janua-
ry, 1793, amounted to 96,717,510, and that there
iras due, on hand, and in the hands (^ Collec-
tors, 36,933,631 ; suppose a further deduction of
Sl,50O.OOQ is made for drawbacks on that year,
yet there will still remain a sum much more than
sufficient to reimburse the $4,500,000 which that
gentleman says has been added to our DebL
There is no reason to suppose the lerenue of last
ear will fait short of ihat of the preceding year.
t is said, if the anticipations are funded, out
Debts will be increased, it wilt be putting off the
'it dtiy. and ibis eountry mav expect to expe-
nce all the evils Trhich hava embarrassed the
iropean nations; but the fact is far otherwise,
for if these anticipations are funded, and not a
shilling of the principal of our Foreign Debt shall
be paid, and prorision only is made for carrying
'~'~ effect the act of last Congress, which he
oo doubt would be done, in 1818 we shall
paid upwards of $30,000,000 of the principal
of our present Debt, which does,aDd will bear an
interest of nix per cent., and in 1824, we shall
hare paid the whole of our present six per cent,
and Deferred Debt, amounting to $43,872,790. and
all the interest on the remaining Domestic and
Foreign Debt, a pretty large proportion of the
Debt to he paid by the present generation, who
' are also borne the burden of war, which has es'
Lblisbed and secured oor inde^ndence^ud would
leave no just cause of compfarat to future gene ra-
If the money could be raised without great
^ience, he should be rery glad to pay the
whole Debt ; but he had no Idea uf resorting to
direct, or any other taxes, that would be very
burdensome to the people, for the sake of paying
it off a few years sooner.
The gentleman [Mr. Qai.l4tin] says, that if
2,000,000 dollars per annum, additional revenue,
was to be raisecT that, in a certain number of
years, it would discharge the anticipation, and
the whole Forei^ Debt; that amounts o^ to
saying, if we had the money to pay the Debt,
we should not have to pay the interest, for the
sum proposed to be raised, with the interest
thereon, amounts to exactly the sum the gentle-
man says coold be discharged. As more tban
2,000,000 dollars of our present revenue will be
lib<^ated in the year 1818, by the discharge of the
present six per cent. Debt, and as the instalments
of our Foreign Debt are tailing dueevery year,
and it is possible we may be obliged to borrow,
and have no other resort but to tbe Bank, he
should be for filling up the blank with 6,000,000
dollars, and thereby enabling the Bank to lend, if
the money should be wanted. This expedient
will not be resorted to, unlera neces-iary, and cati-
not be resorted to but with the consent of all
I branches gf the Government.
I The Committee now rose, and had leare to tit
DQtzo. O.Google
9aa.
HISTOST 0¥ COHfOASm.
9S40
ftofR.l
OunyJeet TretUy—BxMutUM of TmMm.
[AHtii- 171&
Wkdkebday, April 13.
Tke bill r<ir regulating iniereoane with lh«
Imliao tribes wax re&d a third tima, the blanka
filled UP, aod patsed.
Mr. TRACT wished to take up the am«i)dment>
of the S.'oate authorizing the Secretary at War
t« plocp certain perMiiix on the psDaiiw list.
Mr. Chbistie wished the order of the dijr to
be poatnoned. that the Htiu*e might reKolre \(x\{
into a CuDiniittee of the Whole on (he statu of
iL- Union.
Mr. Tract said he was as much in faror of
guing into the quesiion of the state of the Uuioa
at the venilemBD who proposed it could be ; but
he aaid the buKiaess he propoMd to the eonsidera-
lion of the House, he believed would not occupy
many minutes.
The business was therefore lakea op, and the
ameDdmenu agreed to.
CHEBOKEB TKEATY.
Mr. HarfEr said, they had this moiuing pafsed
a bill coDiainiug strong, but Deceasary masures
to prevent future iarraciioDs of the Treaty lately
ciiQcluded with the Cherokee Indians. lo order
efli-ciuallv 10 prevent this, he believed it would
bp Jesiraole to do away all cause of eomplaini
f^oia Ihoi« persons who had claims upon the laud
c^deil tu the tadians by Treaty. For this pur-
|iO!>e he laid the following resolutioas on the
laUe :
Itetahtd, That aU parsons now holding hti^ Andcr
panta from tb« Bute of North Cirolioa, in the teiri-
laiT of the United Btatea wnth of tlia Ohio, ud be-
ybnd tha boundarj line bdweea Iha United etates and
tbn Indians, shall be entitled t« reeeiTe in axchange tbi
an Bqosl qusalitT of their lands, 390 acres evji in the
l«n^^ of the United Sutes Northwest of tbe Ohio,
on their respectively settling there, and caDtinuing to
raptil« for the term of .
Kaoked, That alt personi holding as aforesaid aball
be permitted to aubacrilie their lands in the Loan ibr the
Bomeatic Debt of the United States at the rate of
twenty-fife dotlars per hundred acres, and on the Hqie
terms with the present unsubscribed Debt, provided
that such inherriptiaii aliall not entitle on; sabeciibei
14 a certificate till the whole landa so granted as aibre-
aaid, shall hsTc been snbocribed or exchanged.
iA.T, CHBiaTiB renewed bis motion to go into
Cuniiaiuee of ihs Whole on tbe aiate of ihe
Union.
Mr. W. SjiiTH wai
■HAtjoiL though be wof aware of the aeceasily of
an ^rly attention lo the subject, until tbe, im-
portant financial business bfiore (he House was
givne through. He was the mo^e desiruuaof go-
iiift into the buaineM of finance from the vei^
lo'ig r> prewntatiun which had been gone into by
the gentleman from Peaosylrania [Mr. Galla-
tin] yesterday; a r^ preveotation tending to mis-
lead the puhlie. and which he thoogbl it nis duty
fljily lu contradict, and to show that hi* calcula-
tion. ar)d conclusions were totally unfounded.
If it was, howerer, determined lo go lolu Cuni-
jeiNiibe Biat« of the Union,he wi«h<-d tube
by which he would piore tliai they were now in
a better stale than they were in 1791 by two mil-
lions.
Mr. Suit
Bttiement ;
Mesaim Habpsr, Ssnowios, and Gilbut, asaiost
(Foing into a state of the' Union, and from Messrs.
Giles, Bwakwiok, and Gali^tih, in favor of it,
the latter i^ntleman. noticing what had fallen
from Mr. Shitb wito respect to the financial
i)uea[ion, saying thaL as he had no other object
Ihao tmih in view, ne challenged diacuHbion on
the Bubject,aL the same time expressing his conG-
dence in tbe truth of hi* auteisentt, tbe qnestion
was put and earned for going into Gotnniittee
on tbe state of tbe Union.
EXECUTION OP TRBATISa
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole on the state of the Unioit— '
Mr. Seogwice proposed the following resoln-
ttaolctd, That movision ongfat to be made h; law
for carrykDg ioto cSect, with good &ith, tbe TnUiea
Utetj concluded between the Uej and Regcttcy of At-
gier.j, the King of Great Britain, the King of Spshi,
and certain Indian tribes Xorlhwest of Ihe Ohio."
Several gentleman rose toMther to object to
this resolution. It was complained of both with
reapect to il.s laattei and to the manner in which
it was introduced. To its matter, as connecting
nil the Treatiea together ; lo its manner, because
introduced before tbe Chairman had read any
papers relative to tbe subject.
Mr. Galuatim, called fur the reading of tbe
Spanish Treaty, as be hoped Ihat would be the
firKt deteriniDeJ upon, aa it would be likely to
meet with no opposition. He had also other rea>
Kons for wiahiog it; it was a Treaty in which
hiNconstituenta were particularly interested; be
wished it, also, that a I'alse idea which had been
industriously apread in that country niiahl be
done away, viz: "That except oil the Treaties
were carried into rfiect, no one could be put ioto
ezecutioiv:" which idea was implied in the several
petitions whioh then lay upon ihe ubie from th4
Western country.
Some cooverxaiion took place on the poim of
ord^r, but the Ohairiitan, at length, baring de-
clared the reMlutigoin order —
Mr. GiLEa said he thought it was right ibr ibe
Commilie« (o lake up wnat bosioem it ehoae.
He won^ make a motion to do away this hasty
proceeding. He expected som* decent rttftnt to
the fei lings of gentlemen in conducting this busi-
ne^a, and not that a wnllenan would have laid a
proposition on the table beliire the Cbairmaa had
taken his seal. The motion he should n>ak«
wonld be 10 postpone tbe present reitoluiion fur
ihe pur)>ose of taking np the Spanii^ Treaty.
Eie was persuaded Ihe Oimimtitee could not be
I'uiced ioto the bu.tiness. He thought eac sub-
ject propel for a separate reaolufioa ; he had IW
itioa of IreiRlating by tbe lump.
Mr. SEohijuiOK. onaerved ibnt other gealktnpn
permitted tu read a statement of their finances, I. had teelings aa well, aa the gentleman fron Vjr-
;dbvG00gle
Saft3X)Il¥ OB CQNGKES9.
AF^^ I7fl6.j
[UvkK.
gioia. He hoped die mentben erf' tlutt Hou*^
would be ireatrd, at least foi aftme time, B4 if they
bad equal rights.' A motion wai mad,e to go iolo
Commiiie^ on the slate of the Uoioii ; they re-
•olved themsftves into a ComrDiltee ; uoy man
who gat Gnt possession of the floor had a right to
make any propa'<ition with regard to any subject
before the CummiitEe. A matioo was made by
him that the Committee do come lo a certaiu
rcsolmion ; thai reHolutian was cliea properly her
fore the CommitEee. If the geDileinaa from Vir-
ginia had a resolutioD more proper or more cod-
genial lo his feeling, he might ioiroduce it. wben
the Cuminittee had 'disposed of (be one oa the
table ; but there it wan, aod he claimed the rfghl,
and this right he would eie'cise, of haTing thia
reiiolutioo acted upoq; ooi would he admit that
there should be any other proposition intioiluced
unlil that was diKpi):»ed of.
^r. W. LvMAN aifked if this waa a proceeding
worthy ot a LegislatiTe body 7 He hoped there
would be no sucn haste as bad been shown upon
ibis occasion. Was there lo be a scramble for
baoincsit? If sentlemen persisted in fullowiDg the
course they had takeo, there was awayofdis-
posirg of the resolulton. The Committee had
the power to rise, aod he presumed it would be
in order to make a motion lo postpone the present
qpeslioD to n day certain. He said, if the British
Treaty would not buar examloation, il was nol to
be forced upon iheir understandings whether or
Mr. Williams said that it waii unfortunate for
them when liif y were about to diitcusa one of the
most imponanl questions which ever came before
that House, a question, perhans, upon which the
Ate or the countr/ dependeA On a subject ol
■uch imnortance, it became their duty to hiirmo-
nize witn one another, and. by discu»ung tbe bu-
siness coolly, determine upon tbe best mode or
disposing of it for the good of their country.
How were ihry to proceed in business, if so much
beat was discovered 7 Nothing could be dune.
He wished coolness and good temper to bf their
guide. Let them go into tbe business with calm-
ness and moderation, and then, he trusted, they
should cume out of it as they ought.
Mr. HiLLBOosB said, it appeared to him that
ihey werr contending about nothing. He would
as soon hare the Spanish Treaty first brought
Ibrward as any otber. No man, be believed, bad
any objection to thai Treaty, but he had objec-
lioQs against taking up one and le'iving others.
At the larae time, be was willing lo lake up the
power lo agree lo ihem finely, though they were
united in one resolution. There would be a de-
gree of impropriety in separating them, or in re-
jecting one and Dot the other; indeed^^ifone was
rejected, he ibculd think himself justified in
Toting against the others They were suhjects
which were connected together, and if no olher
gi-nileman connected ihem, be would; but there
coald nut be u final determination upon the reso-
lution, unlil all the subjects were discusiei:.
Ur- Ou-WTM said, if ihty were in t)» Hq^nae,
instead ofa Committee of the Whui«,ihey ngighl
gel rid of Ibe mulioD, cithef by thu previuu^
Sncation, or by poxtponement ; in a CummiileQ of
te Whole, other rules were in force, and if «
proposition was made to ihem, they cuuld not re*
■fuse to debate il. There were two ways, bow-
ever, of gelling rid uf the thing. They might
give their negative to the proposition, merely be-
cause four propositions were connected logciher,
or they might amend it by striking out tiiree of
the Treaties. Before he sat down^ he meant lo
give reasons for adopting either of those two
modes. His objections rose merely from ihe fouc
Treaties being connected togelher. He had beeoi
a good deal surprised to hear a gentleman from
Connecticut say, that the Treaties we>-e so coo*
necied, that if one was not carried into effjci, be
should be justified in withholding his vote front
the rest Had the gentleman forgotten that be
wtisinduty bound lo carry every one of them into
effect? Thai if he did not do it, it would be «
breach of go^d faith — nay, uf the Constitution 7
That he had no discreliun on the subject 7 But
was impelled by moral obligation to executo any
Treaty whatever? Mr. O. was not, therefore, at
all alarmed al th se threats, for he knew, thar '
wha'ever gentlemen's opinions were, they cuuld
not, consiaienlly with their principles, refuse to
give their sanction lo all and every of the Trea<
lies before them. But leaving altogether what
inay be the opinion of any gentleman in ihe
HouNe, let them see what was the opinion of the
HuUNs itself. It was that, whenever a Trenif
ctknloined liOgi^Iative provisions, its ezeculiuu
dei<ended on laws lu be [laK-ted by Cungreni, and
that, in all such cases, it wa-< the Consiiiuiiunat
right and dutv of the House to deliberate on tha
expediency ut carrying the Treaty into elT'cL
This being ihesuleinn rewlulion of that H 'use,
it was contrary to that idea to )iay. they vould
blend nil the Treaties together. Thai House
would carry into etfi^t the Trenty with 0.«at
Britain, lh:>t wilb Spain, or either of ibem.or
It sbould
ol' them,a:
luld appear expediei
:pedienl. The resolution proposed by tha
.genileman from Massac ho setts was perfectly con-
sistent with his own opinion, fur believing the
House ■,:nder an ubligalion to carry into eff cl all
the Treaiiei, he hBiT put them all in one resolu-
tion, ir there were twenty instead of four, upon
his principles, they might all be placed in one
resolution ; but tbe Huuac bad solemnly declared
a different opinion, vizi that it was the right of
this House to dptiberaie on Treaties; whence it
follows, that each must be deliberated upon i«pa-
:ety. But. according to the ideas uf the genile-
in from Connecticut, instead of making iha
Treaties before them matteia of deliberation, they
were to become matters of barter. He hoped
tbe House would spurn at such doctrine, and that
they should dtbate each Tri'aiy by 'iseJt, and der
lermine u|«n them as they Khiill jadg\- pr>.per.
He woold propose an amendmeni, which, if m
order, he tJiould move; if not. tde Chairman
lid inform him. L wai> as Ailluws :
DQtzo. O.Google
HE3T0RT OF CONGRESS.
H-orR]
Bmoulion of 7\eaiiet.
[ApKt^ 179&
"Reaolted, Thit, hi the opinion of AuCannnittfe, it
iieipedient to pus the lam neoeimyfar canytDg the
Treat; with Spain into effect.''
Some coQversatLan took place with respect to
Order, without any delerrainolion upon it.
Mr. Macqh said, there would be an awkward
circucastaDce arise from all the Treaties being in
ooe resolution. Tliey would be debated upon to-
gether, auil a member would always be in order
when speahinK to any one of ihem.-for thai they
(hould never be able to get ihrotigh the busine!>s.
Mr. Sedcweck said, lie had no inieiiliOD of
cramping the Committee in tbeir discussions, but
he did think that all the Treaties were pari of the
lame M'.bject, and he did not see whv provisiun
waa not necessary for the whole. lie did not
think there was any incon.sistency in the ojiJnioQ
of the genilcman from Connecticut. IT, said Mr.
S,, they were asked lo provide for panicular offi-
cers in the army, would they consider themselves
under obligation to provide fi-r them scparati:'ly 7
No ; they would refuse to vote for them individual-
ly, nor could they be charged with impropriety if
they withheld their assent until the whole army
was provided for by appropriations. The whole
pr the Treaties were one great complex subject,
■ad a separation of ihem, so as finally to deny a
orovisioQ as to the one which was concerted, would
De the ruin of the country. Because he conceived
the public failh pledged, would it be said that
there was necessity for his voting for any bill,
however ia itself objectionable, which could l>e
brought before bira 1 No such thing. To carry
one of the Treaties into effect, without the other,
would be sacrificing the interests of one part of
the country to those of another. He was, there-
fore, for keeping them together. He would never
consent to consider one separately. He had ex-
pressed himself, be said, with some warmth upon
liie subject, because he thought ^ntlemen were
going farther than they ought. He believed the
Treaties had not been read in the Committee. He
hoped ihey would be read.
Mr. Giles objected to any Treaty being read
Kt present, unless it was that with Spain.
Mr. Habtley allowed that the gentleman from
Pennsylvania [Mr. Gallatin] was right in wish-
ing to take up the Spanish Treaty, ax one in
which his coDstiiuents were most concerned. He
thought it of most consequence to take up the
British Treaty. By refusing to take np thia
Treaty, gentlemen wculd be responsible for the
eonaequences which might follow lo their coun-
try. The first of June, be said, wan fast approach-
ing, h would be expected that they should do
•omelhiog towards completing the business. The
iahabitantH in the large seaports were deeply in-
terested in the Treaty with Britain, then why
ahould it be deferred because the people on the
Ohio wished the Spinixh Treaty to be attended
tuT It wjs thought Ihey were going lo consider
Ihii Treaty several days a^o ; but if ibey did not
now proreed to con<iiJer ii. he «bcuid lcii.k they
did nui mean lo carry it into iHecl,
, Mr. Uaac Smith wished ihey might get inlo
ume kind uf order. He thought the Britiah
Treaty was most important. If ihey Tvere to
separate them he should, therefore, wish that lo
be taken up.
Some Oi-servations were ■made with re^ject to
order, and a reading of papers was called for.
Mr. Jehemiab Smith said, the object before
them was a general proposition of four members.
The general proposition was, that taws should be
provided for carrying into effect the Treaties
lately concluded with the Dey and Regency of
Algiers, the King o( Great Britain, the Kiiig of
Spain, and certain Indian tribes. Now ceTiain
papers are laid on the table; if Ihey meant the
proposition before them as general, or aiherwi^^,
the papers ought certainly to be lead. He did
not differ from gentlemen in opinion, that the
subject ought to be divided ; he believed a divis-
ioj would be proper. He conceived that where
there were four Treaties, there might be cases in
which he might vote for three of them, and oot
for a fourth, or for a less number. There would,
therefore, certainly be a propriety in considering
the subjects separately. Bui there was do di£
culty ia doing thi*: there wasarule of the House
which provided, that any member niay call for
ihe division of a question, and when it is so called
for, the question, if it will admit of it, must be
divided. He should vote for carrying into effect
all the Treaties; but if any gentlcn
n that >:
f the Tre
and others not binding, it would be proper to call
for a division of the (juestion. He thought the
Treaty with Great Britain equally binding with
the rest. Those who thought difTerenlly would
wish the question to be divided. If the resolution
was not divided the Treaty with Algiers would
be first in order, and that would fir.il be concluded
upon; then that with Great Britain, aad so on.
This, he believed, the most regular mode to be
pursued, that the sense of the House might be
taken upon each proposition, whilst the resolulioa
itself remained undivided.
Mr. Giles said, the gentleman last up had
pointed out a mode which would suit himself, but
which would nut suit others. Pur his own part,
he believed it perfectly in order lo negative the
whole proposition, and replace it wtih auoiher.
They had no table in this Committee, they made
no minutes; they might, therefore, Degative it in
point gf form, and introduce another. He had no
doubt of the propriety of such a proceeding, sinct
that Committee was meant to oebate on certain
Eroposiiions, and ihese were to be carried into
iw. He would remark, that the amendmeot
froposed by the geoileman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Gallatin,! was a substitute for the present,
and was wordt'd according lo the doctrine sup-
ported by Ihe majority on a late question, wherea*
the present resolution is adapted to the opinions
of the minority upon thai occasion. He hoped,
therefore, the Cunimittee would negative this
proposili(>n. and liriiig K'rward iinolher. The gen-
tleman last up had called ue several Treaties
different mem)«r^ nf me *ame body, but be be-
lieved mch to be a •li:>lincl and independent body.
Mr. Sedowice said, he would vary his motion,
;dbvG00gle
HISTORT OF GONGftESS.
AraiL, 1796.]
Extcution of TYeatia.
idiog of papflH respecting the
)ey of Algiers. But be woold
and wit foe the
Treaty with tbe Dey
■sk gentlemen, if they were determined to bring
forward s Kparaie resolution,, if ihry did not ae«
that he or any other member could move to add
the other Trealiei to it, and to briog it into its
present forra 1 He did not know whence arose all
this violence — all this squeamithness. Gentlemen,
■aid be, suppose they are a majority ; they bring
fbrwvd propositions, and endeavor to suppress
any but such as are consoaant to their own opin-
ions. Whenever ibey brooght forward a piopo-
aitioo for a division of a subject which he thought
in its nature connected, he should move to amend
iL They bad the- same rights in this case, and
thejr might amend his motion in any manner
which should reader it eooformable to the opinii»k
of the majority.
Mr. Vbnabud bad do objection to taking up
any of ih« Treaties. He did not know what the
gentleman who" just sat down perfectly seami-
abte. He wished the Treaties might W read in
the order in which they ntootl in the rcsolntifm.
He saw no reason why they should take u the
Spanish Treaty fitsL They came there lo le
f.
reuileman last
t by violence. He «bi-
Bited ai much violence as any member in that
House. He saw no occasion for unnecessary
warmth. The eubjects before them would be de-
termined bjr a majority, and he doubted not that
detettdination would be for the good of the Unit-
ed Stales. If the House took op the Treaty with
Algiers, be doubled not it would be immediately
ag(«ed to. He wondered bow tite gentleman
could conceive tbej could go into all the Trea>
ties, coDtaiuine twenty or thirty articles each.
Would sot stun a medley of maiter occasion much
confusion in their discussioosl It certainly would.
It was in vain, be said, to attempt to force the
CoDamiltee upon discusMons which they did not
wi!<h to enter upon. It could not be dao». Why
then *o sireiHJons, why so warm, after having
brought forward an improper proposition? He
boped the Committee would proceed with mode-
tmtioa : for his put, be trusted he should ao lar
remain master of himself as to preserve bo eqoa-
nimity of temper on this and every other discus-
aion iit that House,
Mr. W. LviuH objected to the Algerine Trea-
ty being taken up at present. He wished to see
the Trraties brought forward sepantely, and
would not consent to take them up in any Other
way. He should, iberefote, move that the Com-
mittee rise, in order to dispose of the gentleman')
reaolution, and briog forward each subject dis-
tinctly.
Mr. BounNB said, the gentleman last up had
■nggested the propriety of Uie Committee's riding.
He thought it was improper that the Committee
should nse. They were upon a subject of the
first iiDportaDce ol any which perhaps was ever
diseuaaed in that House. That ihey should com-
nenca the discussion with so much heat was un-
fortnnate. He should wish, if it was for ao other
purpoae than to give gentlemen time to collect
themselvea and lay aside their acrimony, (hat thi
papers which had been called for might be read.
The papers appertaining to any of the Treaties
would oeoupy all the time tbey.bad now left be-
fore the usual hour of adjournment.
Mr. WiLitiaiu ihauglH the obwiratim at the
late for the whole and not a pari of the Vnwn.
Why not, then, open the rit-cr St. liawrence a*
well OS the river Mississippi?
Mr. Paob rose to rema.'k Upon what fell from
the gentleman from Rhode Island. He recom-
mended the reading of the Algerio« Treaty, in
'""^r 10 cool the heat of the Comntfttee. Ha
nujld remark that gentlemen seemed warm,
though be did not believe they were so. He bopea
when gentlemen talkjd so much of candor, that
they would com<; into (hose measures in wbiek
they were all agreed. When the subject of the
British Treaty came up, he assured thegentlemaa
from Massachusetts he would listen with the
greaiMt attention for any length of time, whilst
He held up to view the merits of that Treaty;
though, as time was becoming very tweeiou^ ha
believed it would not be well to employ mnoD of
in that way, Hs be feared it would be all in vaiik.
Mr. MuBBAi said, that tba question' briore the
Committee was, whether the Algeria* ot the
Spanish Treaty should be first considered. VA
hts part, he wtMied to unite the whole of tht fotir
Treaties in one view, as the? were collectively a
>ysiem ia which the wbtde Uaion were interest-
ed. But be cared little which was first considered
if they are disunited. He said, that M very im-
portant was it, in his miad, tnat a decision of
some sort should be immedtately pronounced hj
the House upon the British Treaty, that he had da-
lermiDed not to occupy any time m adding tu the
number of debaters lor the last tea day^ on th»
other business of Coneress, one instance except-
ed. He said, that, by the British Treaty, arrange-
ments are to be made with ihe QovernorOmeral
of Canada for the delTvery of the Western posts
before the 1st of June. This day is the I3tb of
April; and we are consuming that time, which ia
every minute of it pledged to great events, in fri-
volous and entangling preliminary questions.
The public cxpectaiion is, that on the 1st of
Jane the posts are to be delirered. Hfi implored
gentlnnea on all sides lo take a question that ia
to settle our national faith, the interests of the
Union, and the expectation of the public Time
is too ivecious, as that Treaty will be affected by
it, to be thus wasted. Any decision will be bet-
ter than a debate which may violate a Treaty ia
deciding its merits. The minds of members, h«
believed, had sufficiently viewed the subject. If
there is a majority against the execution of tba
Treaty, it was in vain to dispute about the cere-
monies of its condemnation. The Treaty ought
in good faith to be ezeeuied ; but, at all events, it
will be moat consistent with an explicit character
lo decide eaiiy what most be decided before the
Isl of June. He vrauld vota for every measure
to come to a quick deeistea.
Mr. Cbabb raid, he shonld Hot hesitate to dfr-
■ to eatiy iato «f-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORt OF COlfflMffiSS.
94%
'R3
BXietUioa ef Tftiatln.
fAw»i.,179&
fpctaK T eml'm *peeifled in the rnolutiim intro-
diieed b^fhegaDilembu fram MnsnrhuiettR ; JH
kefvli )t abo his <luiy toi«y, that if fr«Mlemen
Imacjouily iDBisteil on the iVMitniioti as it now
Mood, aid would dm consent ibat the question
diauld be divided, and if there wa» Do rule of the-
HuUHe by which it coold be divided, Mi Ox to lake
the iiense of the Cuhioiittee fairly on each sepa-
rate and distinct Tmiy. then, be raid, in thai
ea»e, he abould be constrained to vote aitninst the
resolutioh, fur tbe parpoM of introducing others
more proper ; for lie never would, on this nor
other occaiion, ^t« his nnetion to *o unpr
tfented ahd impropar a proMdure. W» it
lonahle, w«i it decent, that tbe Oommittee of the
YlTbole HouHe should be called upon, and thus
prewed to vote and decide on foar^greai import-
ant-narioaal quntiona, coiKhed in one short reso-
kiiion, and tiiat reitoiutioa expresxed in Inngua^
by no meaD)) unezceptionabtef Orntlemeu have
faid that thiv (hetcrogeneolis) niode of procedi
wasright, as the Treaties m^stall be considered
k»ODe connected suhject, and tttUM itatid or h'
all to^iber. He wiihed to know how long (hi
* 4iacovery haj been itMde.and froib whence arose
thi8stTap>g«opiaioo7 Sappose, he mid, tbe Pre-
itn'ENT and Banate had rejected the British Tres'
ly. tvodd it hare fbtlowed that they mutt hare
n-jectednll the rem?
Ajiaia : nippoae they had not approred of the
Bpaaiah Treatyaflerratifvingthe Bruixh Tr«at]^,
imitd it tbJIow they could not hhre n^ected ii
btcaoM tbey bad ratiAed ihe other T Where was
thf-t'link of connexion, tben 1 Tbn wastiew<loc-
ttintj indeed, auoh a> be trnated woiiM never be
•idmasible witbiit theae walk Slieh an impro-
pn, irri^hr introduction of faaMOen of tbe at-
aaat inpurlance^ be lioped woald never be coun-
tonanced oradaiitted. Decency, order, and pro-
(irieiy forbid it.
- Mr. Oaah said, what gave rise to the preeeni
iflisciltiioo wax, whether the TreaFy with Spain
ahoold be Grst taken up; yet itwaxexti^ordinary,
tbdagh gentlemen were complaining of a want of
time, what was said did not relate to that point.
Mr. G&LLATI'N said, the qoenion was. whethi
tlw Treaty with Algiers ahoald be read. H
ahoold object to it for two reasons : Fint, Ibey
were not m a tituaiion to enable Ihem todeter-
Mtttt upon it, the paper* eomnminieated by the
PaMioenr relative to it bKing eunlidentiaf, and
rvArred to a wieet sammiuee, who had not yet
made a report. Tbey had only the nmounl of
the groKS nam of money required. When the
Gbmmitiee had rep>>ned it would be lime enough
•o take «p thai subject. Bm he objected (o read-
Mg any pn|terv in tbii stage of the buHinora, be-
BMtse he did not thiiA they could elucidntethe
Mibjeet of debate. The mlject immediately be-
fine iMm wjs not whether the Treaty with Al-
(hra, or any utber Trtaty, should he curried Into
ffffMt, but whethet: ihcy would eotasider the foar
Treaties together, or eaM of them ty imelf. The
•plilMrR called for oobid ibrow no light on the de-
tiban of tkal quealioa. He hope^ tfaerefcM, the
■teoiioB for -p^peia -^vnM h* wtlbtnmm U kegi^
tived; and he would then raote to strike oot the
words "aeveval Treaties." jb order fo replace it
with tbe word "Treaty;" When (hat queFiion
wi»s decided, they roold sny which of the Trea-
ties shonld he taken up first.
Mr. Hiixfrovue hoi«d the Corntnitiee wonM
rise. He had no obJF'Ction m taking op the Span-
ish Treaty first. He was willing to hare the
Treaties in setmraie reaolutionH; btit he hoped
gentlenien would - cmiseoi to go through all the
Treaties before the senile of the Ooininittee waa
tnken on the re>^ntiOn. If the Spanish Treaty
was first conaidered. be should vote for ii ; exeeft
he saw ooroeibing different respecting the British
Treaty from what he then saw, he sboDid vort
for it; but if any one of ihem was struck out, or
rrlVsed to be carried into effect, he should rote
against the others. And be hoped he sboald be
able to mnhe his conduct Appear ijonnxtent in the
conrae of the busieess. Ha hoped ihey should
treat the subject with candor, a od in a way ia
which every man might haire an opimrtaniiy of
eiercisiog fiis opinitm — a« a majority in mat
House had never yet prev«Ttlcd a rnhmriiy from
being heard in defence of their sen timent-i. If it
were the opinion of the majority of tbal'HousC
that three of the Ti^attes Should be rejected, ha
wonld vote against the fourth. He hoped tbe
Committee would rise, and would not object to
taking uplbe Spanish Treaty first in oider »•
Tbe queitioit for the Cotmnktee'a rinng wa«
taken, when there appeared for it 44^ againil
it 46.
Mr. Oii.Be said, ha should mart to strike oiil
all Ihe words after "Resolve," ibat itie resotatiM
might be filled up with other words. As gentle-
men had ihoogtit proper to anticipate their vote*
upon the British Treaty, he would uy, that b«
should vote against it. He hoped the Committee
wDt}ld adopt the proposition he had made, in order
to have the rfsDlDtioa difierently worded.
Mr. Sedowick said, he bad iotrodaced the mO'
lotion in the form it bore, becBtue- he thought it
best He had wi)>hed the Committee wouht have
risen. He had wished it because h^ did atit wish
gratlemen to be nnder airy kind of trammels in
the bnsioess, to be under any obligations to dtt
what they wished not to do. He had eonnrcied
(he subject, because he thought it proper tbry
should oe connected. If gentlemen thougfai it
best to separate them, he was seDtiible he could
not prevent a separation. He shoold beextrame-
ly sorry if a genttetnan should vote contrary 16
his opiuion with respect to the Brttisb Treaty.
He should be sorry if (he geailemaa from Mary<
land [Mr. Crabi] should be obliged (o vole con*
trary to his opinion by Mieh a coooesion. H«
hoped he woulJ not
Mr. Madison wished the resolDtioD might be
transposed, by putting the Treaty^iehwaa men-
tioned last first, and vice rena.
Mr. Gallatih urged his moiioti.
Mr. WitLUtts hoped the Comtttttn waaM
Mr. HukwoK tui hm vna m» 'in «!>•**•<'■■
.dbyGoogle
#«d
HISTORT OP eOWGaiESft
&S0
An(iL,irM.]
BxteUion bf Tnaliti.
rH.opll.
«nd hebop«d th^f ohooM not rfte.and bythatBct
<leelttre (hey wvre eo tMgtj that iher conld not
Kct at bM.
Mr. Thatobcr R^retd that the gentleman last
a|) Whs not ID a paitsion ; but he whs of opinion,
with other eeDtlemen, that there was a great dral
of heat in the Cominittee, bat he did oot, like
them, )ament it. Me ttds, on the contrary, glad
lo see it, brcauw it was a proof that it existed,
and there was now a chance of its evaporatioe. It
Mrmed as if geotlemen hsd not the eapncity of
reasoning. The eenttemon who rose last was
fierfectly cool, and he hoped he wauM coniinne
so; but still hedidnoiBllempl to reason— he only
told them he was not in a passion. H% was a|>-
g-eheniiTe that whilst the Treaty with Oreat
ritain was befort tbeitt the y should not gprow
much cooler; for, as it had been declared that ih«
whole country was in a flame ainai it, some of
the beat, it must be wtpectwi, would i*ach th»t
House. The winds had long been chained in the
c«vea of iBolns, bbt Ibey had now Iwoken loose,
and, if thpy sat long enouglt, h« hoped they
wnatd, in some degree, pass over th^m.
Mr. SwARWicE hoped the Committee would
not rbe; it would be an uotfecessary delay in the
preaitnt important Itosiness. He had no idea of
poning'Ofl'tilt to-morrow what they hftd It in their
pcrwer to do to-day. Why, then, postpone this
▼me? Thcrmast come to the eamei^uestion to-
morrow, mnd they man take it up then. Why,
tben, not dMennine it at that time?
Mr. IsiAO SaitH wished the Committee to
rive, aa it was the nsusl bottr cf adjourn raent,
, Mr. Coorm 'hoped the Gomibitiee would rise,
as be meant to offer bis aeoiiiiieRts upon the occa-
fJOfl, and there was no ririie for It Ihec.
Mr. HoLLiKft hopedthe Commhtee wonid not.
Mr. LrfiNoaTOH said, it would be a disgraceful
\ eircumslanee lo the Gommiilee that they ihonld
, have sat so long without doing any thing, and at
length, by voEing the Committee to rise, declare
, that they were incapable of dotng'any thing. His
colieague' [Mr. Cooper] had given as n reaMm
why the Committee should rise, that he wished
lo declare his sentiments on the occasion. He
doubted not if that i;enllemBQ delirered his senci-
, nenis with tliat ability, politeness, and dellcaeyof
mannerwith which he In general exprewes him-
■elf, he woDid be dnly atlend''d to ; but if he did
it in the way in which he sonetimcs delirered
bimaelf, he might is well be silent.
Mr. CoopBN abWrred, after Mr. Livinobion,
that let him delirer his sfrntimenta in which way
be would, he had no doubt that it wojld hens sai-
irfaclory to his conaiiiuents as the condnct of that
gentleman was to his. H* felt himself much
, oMiged to hi* colleague for the polite request he
had made for theComtnlltee to rise; but he found
I that obl^lioo remond by (he tilose of his speech.
I This, md Mr. C. is like the usual consr^eney of
*at gentleman. As lo the Hoose being in great
ntai, he mw it with as much pain as that genite-
1 man did, and wiabed he could asy one of his col-
Mfttea had not been iastrnmentsl In prodacing
^ tlMdl&e«ltr.
Mr. BonifHBdid nOt Ifiinh thntth^Commitiee%
rising would declare their unStness liir bu^ioeKa,
as it Was the Usual lime of Ddjoarnment.
Th(> vote Wis again laliRi l«f the Committee'^
rising, and n^iatived by 47 ro 45.
Mr. G«tL&TTN^ motion was then put ahd car-
A motion for the Committee^ risiog, was sgai&
lost hy 47 ro 46.
Mr. Blodkt mored to strike ont " the King of
Great Britain and the Dey of Algiers" fVura th*
resolniinn.
Mr. SuDowiccohserred, that genllempn wished
to iitke un the Bpnnish Treaty flrM. He would
wish to know why that Treaty should be lake*
up in prelerence to theother? Gentlemen knew
thai it ihey acted at all upon the, British Treaty
ihey must do it in six weeks; biit ihey did not
know thai the Spanish Treaty was r.itiHed. It
was ?aiJ that that Treaty would bcfavorable to
persons in the Western country; but he diil not
know why anV particular part of ilie Union
should be attended to in preference lo the other.
It was not decided whether the British Trearv
should be carried into effect or not, and he would
remind gentlemen that there was now only jQst
time enqufffa for the neceww j |fre|or»tions bplure
ihe III of June. He hoped gentlemen would out,
therefore, unnecessarily protract the business. Ha
wished lo lEoow what urgency required the Span-
ish Treaty lu be taken up at a time when iha
country was agitated from one eod to the other
on account of Hie fate of the British Treaty 1 ij
there was no good reason for it he hoped ihey
would not per.tist in it.
Mr. Venable called. for the reading of the 1*re-
aiDEnT'n Message accompanying the Spaoi^
Treaty. It was read.
Mr. Williams said, it appeared to bim iWt
they were about to legislate for a part and not the
whole of Ihe UnioQ, by taking u'p the Bpctoiah
Treaty, which had neither a claim upon them fn
point of priority nor of necessity. He wished'
' British Treaty lo be taken Uji. If ihe inter-
□f piirlicular parts of the Uuiou were to be.
attended lo, he thought the Stale which he had
the honor to represent had a greater claim than
iny other to their attention, as, if it was not now,
I would soon be, one of the first States in the
Jnioo. Let them view the .city of New York,
ind consider the revenues whicti it paid to Gov-
'rnmenl. That city wns peculiarly inleresled in,
the British Treaty; and he called upon bU col-'
leagues to recollect the interest of their Slate.'
[Mr. W. here took notice of a smile which heob-.
ed upon the countenance of a gentleman near
, which he said be despised.] He conclodea.
by wishing all pariy-spirii to be buried, and that
they might proceed willi bn.siness.
Mr. Crabb moved ao amendment, to strike out,
e words, "Spanish Treaty," and leave the le&O-
lution blank. ,
Mr. HotLAKD said, gentletjien spoke as if they
supposed, because the Spanish Treaty was to be
lirst taken up, that all the rest was lo be neglect-
ed. Oeatlemen had raid if one Treaty wai not
.d by Go Ogle
HISTOBT OF CONOSE8S.
Ejxcution of Treatif.
[April, 17DS.
carried they vrould v
B ania!>t the whole. This
on Tor taking aptbe Spaa-
inly the hest. But it
■ma froiu'rauch better ground. The Phebidekt
had required an early atteation to the Spanish
Treaty, which wa» not the case with anv of the
rest. Aoolber leason was, because he believed
Ifaere would be do difference of opinion on that
Treaty, except they were like children, and re-
fused to have one good thing because ihey coutd
not have- ell they nanled.
Mr. OiLBERT seconded the motion to strike out
the words " SpaDish Treaty."
The Committee now rose, and the Hcusead-.
joiimed.
THnHBDAY, April 14.
Mr. leBAEL BHira called up a resolution, laid
upon the table some time ago, respecting an alter-
ation in holding the District Courts of Vermont.
Mr.BoDBNE wished the District Courts of Rhode
Island also to be added.
■ Tbey were added accordingly. TheHouse agreed
to the resoluiLOn, and it was referred to a co:nmit-
lee of three members.
DEBT DUB BANK rNITBD STATES.
Mr. Gallatim said be wished to lay a resolution
and two petitions on the table. Tne resolution
related to the Debt due to the Bank of the United
States. There was one point which be wished to
be clearly understood upon the subject : He wished
lo know whether the Bank bail demanded (he
money for which the Oovernmeot stood indebted
to them. If Ihey had, he would a^iree tbey must
be paid. But, as he bad seen nothing officially on
the Bubicct, he wished the matter to be inauired
into. For that purpose, he proposed a resuuljoQ
to the fallowing effect :
"Saolved, 7'b«t actMnaitlM be apppinted to inquire
vrbether the Bank of the Utiiled Stkle* era witling to
eontinne the Iioana heretofore made b; them to Giovem-
nent, in antieip>tion of the public retenuB. and amoant-
ing to 3,800,000 dollan, by new Leant, umilar to thoM
which tbey nere uwd lo obtain."
Mr.SwANwicK wished an amendment, "or any
part thereof," to be added ; which was agreed to,
and laid upon the table.
EXECUTION OP TREATIES.
The House then formed itself into a Committee
of the Whole on the Mate of the Union, when the
resolution as proposed by Mr. SEnowicK.and as pro-
posed to be amended hy Mr. Blodnt, by siriking
out the words " Dey and Regency nf Algiers and
King of Great Britain," being under considera-
Mr. Datton (the Speaker) acquiesced in the
reasons which had been given in favor of taking
up and deciding upon the different Treaties sepa-
rately, although there might be no impropriety in
blending hereaAer, in one hill, the appropriations
for ibem all. He hoped, nevertheless, that those
gentlemen who were for passing over those which
were first in order in the resolution, to get at the
Spanish Treaty, would asaign some a
tory reason for lakiog up lliat, in preference to
others, than had yet been offvre^- He called the
attention of members to the British Treaty, and
the state of things with respect to ii. An aneitioa
had been made yesterday, that nothipg was neces-
sary to be done on the part of this Government
before the first of June — the day appointed for the
surrender of the Western posts. He referred to
the article itself, where it was expressly stipulaied,
that previously to that day, all the proper meaanret
should be taken, hy consent, between the Goverit-
ment of the United States and the Govemor-Gen-
eiai of Canada, for seiiUng the previous arranfce-
mente which may be necessary respecting uia
delivrry of ibe said posts. There were now onJy
six weeks in which to settle the whole busineas.
In a former debate, it was said that a latitude of
six months after the first of June was given in the
Treaty for the surrender to be made, in pursuance
of the second article. This he flatly denied, and
challenged gentlemen to support such an aaaertioB
by the instrument.
Id addition to the arrangements contemplated
in the Treaty, there were, be said, certain prepaia-
tions which our particular situation rendered ne-
cessary. The troops requisite to take immediate
possession of our posts could not be instanianeonsly
transported thither, as it were, by a magical charm.
Contracts must be advertised for, and made, for
supplying provisions at the different new stations
The transportation of heavy cannon and niliUiy
stores must also be provided for.and that too from
a very great distance ; for it was welt knonm that
the light attillery which is attached to such an
i>rmy as ours was altogetber unfit for garriwn*.
If it should be determined by a mtuority of the
House of Representatives to jvithhord the appro-
¥'iatioos that were necessary, in order to carry tin
reaty into effect, the sooner that determinatiMi
was known the belter. The Message of the Pbb-
sinEHT which accompanied the Spanish Trealf
three. Upon a recurrence to those papers it woaM,
he said, be found that the last weelt of the sesaioa
would be OS seasonable to act upon it as that day.
It was not known that it was ratified in Spaia;
and, although he owned thai it was not a sufficient
reason for neglecting altogether to make prorisioD,
i'et it might afibrd en argument for a delay, as
ong at least as it might be exercised without po»-
sible injury. As to cne Eogliah and Indian Trea-
ties, there was a necessity for an early atteolion to
them, whether they were to be rejected or not[
andespecially if they were to he carried into effect.
He hoped some belter reasons for taking up tb«
Spanish Treaty first might be given, than tbose
be had yet heard ; for the motives of the gentle-
man from PeniisylvaniB, urging that it was fw the
interest of his immediate constituents, could not
actuate the members of that House generally, who
must consult, if tbey do their dotr, not the inter-
ests of a part only, but of the whole.
Mr. W. LrHAN said, that when the |^Dtlea»aa
from Pennsylvania [Mr. Qaujitih] aMigiuil rek-
.dbyGoogle
fflSTOKT OF CONGRESS.
954
H.opR.]
Eseeulion of Treatia.
HDs forwbbmf toUke upih« Spuiah Treaty fint,
ii WHS not became bis coastiuieiits would be most
' beae&ted ibereby, boi because attempts bad beco
made in that part of ibe United Slates to mislead
and deceive cbe people imo an opinion and beLef.
tbal unleu Ihe British Treaty «nould be carried
iato effedl, ibe SpaoUh and olber Treaties woald
also be aegatired. If attempts of tbia sort had
been made, Mr. L. said, in his opinion, it was a
cogent leUDD for lakiog up the Spanish and other
Treaties fir«t, io order lo undeceive them. This,
honever, was not the only reason that infiueiKed
bis miod. The Spanish Treaiy, be said, he con-
sidered enlilled to a priorityia point of merit. He
should noIaUentpi to go into the merits of it, par-
ticularly at this time; but thns much be would say,
that be considered the Spanish Treaty. perba|M,
as the most perfect erer entered into between any
two nations: it jeflected the graatest lustre on
the two nationi, and all eoncerned in the agency.
Indeed, he had nerer beard eren an objection
against it. He therefore supposed there wonld be
■ perfect unanimity in the House relnlive thereto.
The Algetine and Indian Treaties, although not
so perfectly correspoDdent to onr feelings and
inieresta, would De7«rthelesi mee^ be supposed,
with Doobjeetions; but, with regard to the British
Treaty, it most be obvious to everv one, from a
formei lengthy debate, that it wonld be thoroughly
disfiusscd and invtstigated j and he believed the
■object would leceire such an illustration as hi-
therto it had not met with in the United States.
These considetaticns indoced faioMo wish to dis-
pose of those Treatiec, about which they were
entirely agreed, and they would then soon come
to the question which the House seemed lo be so
impatient for. He did not wish any delay ; he
•hould be ready to meet the question relalire to Ihe
British Treaty, and should act according to the
best dictates of his unders tan ding. If that Treaty
appeared to comport witb the welftre and inter-
ests of' the United States, taking alt eircurastaoces
into eouideration, be should rote for it; but, if
the lererss of ibis appeared, he should eooceire,
not only that he was at liberty, but aleo that it was
actually binding on htm, to rote against carrying
it into effect.
He hoped, therefore, that the Spanish Treaty
would fint be taiken up and acted upon, and that
then thev should take np the others distinctly and
separatety. They were subject* in tbeir nature
distinct, and could in no degree receive any light
from being connected with each other i but, on Ibe
contjrary, the connexion wonld tend to embarrass
and perplex the question. It was introducing the
principle of lackmg, to wfaieh he had erer been
opposed. He thought, if a iiuestitw wouU not
stand the test by i» own merits, il ought to be re-
iected. A vicious principle, so far from being ame-
liorated by annexing it to a pure principle, aetved
only to render the latter earru|)t. He should there-
fore rote for the amendment, in order to bring the
questions in n simplified state before the House.
He should always he against oonfouading things
with each other whinh in their nature were so
dUiiiiet and irrateTut. There could .nevei be a
comproniae between good and bad — between rico
Mr. H1L1.HODBG wixbed. to bring forward three
out offonrresolutians which he had proposed some
lime before, but which were not then attended to.
The three were — (the fourth being for carrying
into efieet the Spanish Treaty was already super-
seded)-—first,
" StMtntd, That it i| expedient tc paia tfai laws ne-
cessary for canying into eilect the Treaty Utelj coo-
doded with csitain Indians Northwest of the Ohio."
The other two were in ihesajneworos^nly for
carrying into effect the Treaty with the Dey and
Regency of Algiers, and the King of Great Bri-
Mr. SwANwicK said, he should be pleased if the
frentleman from Connecticut, last up, might be
accommodated, by having the Treaties taxen up
in the way he had slated. As Ibe gentleman from
New Jersey [>he Speaker] had called for reasons
why the Spanish Treaty should be taken ilp in
preference to the others, he would eive what be
thought good reasons for it. No doubt the Trea-
ties with Spain, Algiers, and the Indians, would
passthrongb the Commitieewith little dUcussioni
and the resolutionsi being passed, so much would
be done. Wii^ respect to the British Treaty, it
would become a subject of serious and solemn dis-
cussion, in r/hich he trnsled the greatest modera-
tion and candor would prevail, and which would
issue in lheg^eate^t public good. It would receive
thai discussion which it liad not had in public
meetings which have already jud^d upon it: for
these meetings have either been its decided ene>
raies or friends, and therefore the arguments were
all on one side. Nodonbi the PREsiDEiiTand Se-
nate had fblly and foirly discussed its merits, biit that
discusaioD was unknown lo the people. He ex-
pected many ideas would be thrown out upon this
subneci by the collision of sentiment, when it came
under consideration, which bad not been thought
of— which would be like so many sparks of light
to illuminate its merits ot demerits; and, what-
ever the final determination may be, it wilt be
founded upon the most profound investigation.
To go first into the British Treaty would be pro-
orastinating instead of acceterating public busi-
ness. But were there no intrinsic merits in this
Treaty with Spain, which ought lo give it a pre-
ference of consideration 1 When nil colleague
[Mr. Gallatin] staled as a reason for going into
the Spanish Treaty, that it was a Treaty in which
his constituents were particularly interested, it
was good ground for him to found his wish upon.
He hoped whilst gentlemen were legislating for
Ihe pablic good, they woufd never forget 10 cher-
ish, with an ardent affection, the immediate inter-
estsof theirconstituents. Upon the same ground,
the gentleman from New York [Mr. Wiluams]
was In favor of the British Treaty. This was
natural, and ought not to occasion any surprise 01
heat in the Committee.
But, after all the vote of that House must b«
founded upon the good of the whole, which will
be declared by a majority; therefore, a vole of the
House would take up the Spanish Treaty.if taken
.dbyGoogle
HISTOItT OF COIffCHlESa
Ann^lTW-i
EMcaHin ^ TnaHn.
fH.c
*p at all. H« did not at present ueaa to ga into
ibe merits o( Ihe Spanish Treaty : he thought ii
a very adrantHgeouB (me to ihia country. Id di;^
eussior the raentsof the British Trtat/, he [runted
they Baould UToid all rernniinBtioin or acrimony,
and Ihattheyshouli) exhibit anenltghlmedHouw-
goidpd by party ifHril, but by n zeel For ilie
luulic good. He bopfd ihey should tTuid ihink-
Dg uDlaTDnbly uf each oiiter, on accouni q( a
liSsrence of npinion, since Ihey
think alike than they eould look alike. -He trotted,
therefore, whatever miffht be the final decision.
thai good temper and Etnoony would prevail ic
their discussions.
Mr. Madjbon would sobmit to the genileiQBo
from Cunneciicut, to whose candor tb^ Oonimit-
tee'were indebted, whether the queslioo was nut
decided against a lumping vole on all the Tceaiiev,
by ibe Mogular numVr, ''the Treaty," being in-
serted instead of "the Treaties;" aod, therefore,
thai his re^lutions were uooecessary.
Hedidnot understand the gen tlemsQ from Penn-
glvnnia[Mr.GALi^TiN] in the same way in which
e genilrman from New Jersey [the Speaker]
had understood him. He mentioned the intererU
of his own constiiueatA as inducements with him-
aelf for proposing,and not. to the House for decid-
ing, to take up tlje Spanish Treaty. ' But he would
explain lo the gentleman from New Jersey, and to
Ibe Comniittee, why the Biwoish Treaty should
first be taken up, and not the British. Thai Treaty
had excited no opposition, and would probably
— I through the House without debate, and
a bill
for carrying it into effect, whilst the British Treati
■bould be under diseusaioD ; bul,if ih^y began with
a Treaty which might occasiou a lengthy discus-
aion, nothing would be done with tbe other Trea-
ties before that was gone through; whereas, if
they took up the other Treaties before the British,
Ultle time would be ^penl before they came to that
Treaty. If ihegentleman from Connecticut con-
curred with this idea, he could agree to let the
Question before the Committee be taken, and then
move his resolutions in the order he proposed.
Mr. Harpeb said, as he had origiually, by a re-
(oluiioD which be had some days ago laitl upon
the table, brought forward this measure of con-
necting in one view the several Treaties which
bad lately been concluded with foreign countries
t and the Indian tribes, and as the objectof the mea-
sure had been much misundersiooa, be thought it
incumbent on him to state soma of the reason^
which had induced bin) to propose the resoluiioa,
and which still induced him to iliiok that the whole
subject uf these Treaties ouehl to be considered
together, [Mr. H. was reminded of the question
before the Committee.] He knew very well, he
paid, what was the question, and shqulago on to
treat the subject in his own way. but, be Irnsted,
in perfect reference to the point now under consi-
deration. If his reasoning did not appear conclu-
■iye, oentlemen would of course reject it) if, on
(he other hand, it should appear to have weight,
it'would no doubt have iu proper eOect. He be-
lieved that the resolution, notwithstanding tli«
amendnciM otdde yvMevday^ Mill Wvri lo connect
tbe Treaties in me point ol view. The ameiul-
naent of yenerduy wa* to strike out th« wurd*
'■neveral Treaties," and insert the word "Treaty."
But iitiJl this word TVnsly might apply.ia discus-
sion, to all (be diSermt Treaties etiuioenicd in
the resolutioo. Tbe amendmeul bow under cod-
sideralioo was lo strike out part of those Treatin;
and if that amendment iboold be rejeetnl, ib«
reMilution woold Tend perfectly well, and woold
include them all. Thik, indeei!, was the preciic
Ibrm in. which be had at first propoited this mea-
sure. Any obsemtions which tended to show
that all ihv Treaties ought to be considered toge-
ther would be perfectly in order, to eTince tbat
tbisamettdment ooght to be refuted. [TkeCbair'
wan declared that it was in order.] He shoold,
therefore, lake that point as open tor dtseuwion.
It could not be BUppoaed thai be meant, by con-
necting the Treatiea in one resolution, to compel
gentlenien tojMss «poD tbem allin one role: bed
this been the inteotion. it could not be the effect.
It wi> well known that any member bad a rqtbt
to rail for a division of the question when it cane
to be put. If a resolution shonld join four Trea-
ties, and be dieeoseed in that my, aof member
might call to hsTe the qocstioa separately lakeo^
wheoever the Cotnmiitee was readf 10 take it.
No gpnilemai^ could snppose that a joint vom
would be lakea, bnt the several Treaties were
ptfced io one resolgtioD, not to be voted no toge-
ther, bnt h) be dMCusked tagethev, because ibef
were parts of one great i^stein of foreign Tf4ationa
which have an iniimate connexion with eacit
'otiwr; and that reasons might be dedoeed from
one to show tbe propriety of eiecuting the others.
Tbe settlement of a dispute with one nation woaM
facilitate tbe settlement of dctpatei with other
nations. This was the object of tliereK>luiiaii,aad
not to oblige gentlemen to vote for all the Tieatie*
at ODCe, as seemed to have been soppiMed.
Before he went iurther ioio the coBsideratioo of
this qnestion, he would remark on the obaerrattont
which had been made on a geDtleman from Coo-
neeticut, on saying that there might be reaaoos tat
not ezecuiiag the Spanish Treaty. He was him-
self of opinion that there might be such rrmran^
He kttew of no naagio in the word Spain, that
could reader a Treaty with that Power, more tfaaa
With Great Britain or any other Power, perfecllf
agreeable lo those prioeiples which ought 10 die*
late tbe execution of Treaties. On the cooirarf ,
he could easily eoaceive of a Treaty with Snin
which ought nut to be executed, whidi would torm
one of those extreme cases where'tbeaid of th«
Legislature ought to be withheld. Whether the
Treaty Actually concluded with Spain was of that
descriptioD, was another , cpiestioa. He did not
believe it was ; but the gentteinaa from ConDecii*
cut might, with perfeei consistency, be of a diffev-
rnt opinion. That gentleman had been Udd that
he could not role against the Spaoiah Treaty, ac-
cording to hia own principles; that faewaaab*^
lutely bound by it,an8 had nodii«retioa Vft. B«t
the gentleman from Connecticat had asaerted ae
suob pf toaiptet. He had, m the caBinif ,ataertei
;d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF 00NGKES9.
Amil, 17U6.]
Bateitiion •/ l\wth».
(H.Orft.
tbil tberr were casen tit wbicb ht should think ii
bis duly lo vote againsi a Tmij^l itod lbr:t. ihf
EDlleraan who made tb« observaiion on faim musi
ve kaovvn.
But, supnose the gcatlemnn rrom CoanecticDt
liod declare)! the comriiry, were [here no ca^s in
whicb a member declared ooe tbing, nnd ofler-
tiarils voled directly ibe coutrarvl Surely th'
prilleman rrom PefiDsylvania [Mr. Oallat[h]
it»;
lid Doisajr Ihi
that genllemaD declare, in rhe debate
portent queHiDD, tbst irhere pafiers reripectiDga
DC^odatiun were demanded, flir the purpose of
instituting HQ inquiry into the coDdaclol' the uego-
listors, that porpoM ought to be distinctly stated
in ihi^preanibk'ortbereiolulioniBDdyel. hiinime
Sppeanf amoDg tlie yeai on a resalution whicb ei-
presily iiayK liiat no HUch statemeot is necewiary.
[Here Mr. Pioe called Mr. Hadpbii to order, but
the Chairman declared ibut he was ia order, and
Mr. Gallatin hefcged that he roigbifroon.] After
this ex.imple, Mi*. H. ttald, surely the honoreble
member Trom Peaofylrairia wilL not kuv that a
metnber ought Dever to vote contrary to nis pre-
Tious declaratiopi.
According to Ibis view or the labjeet, the fonr
Treaties ougbi to be coonidered in one resolntion,
aai to be discussed toother, becaase they formed
parts ofa great sy^jlem ol foreiKs rslatioDi which
irere closely connected, and could not be properly
oodersiood aotess consitlerod in one general and
connected ticw.
This country, Mr, H. obsenred, previow to tbe
late negoliation with foreign Powers, found itself
CDoaged in a disagreeable dispute wilb Great Bri'
Iain, pnrlly arising from llie late war, and partly
from sube^ueni inrractioos of the Law of Nations.
It round icseif involved in a war wilb the Indian
tribes, occasioned in some degree as was nu-
pected, and.be believed justly, by the possessors
of the Western posts, and (he maeamvie* of tbe
foreiicn Power by wb^oh ibey were held, it fonnd
itself in a disnute with Spain on points of very
great nalional magnitude. It found itself in a
contest with Algiers, extremely dariKerons to onr
comrnerce and. to tbe safety of our citizens — many
of whom bad been reduced to sUvery by that
Thus stood onr foreign relations. The Power
wilb whom we bad tbe most complex and ernbar'
ra.'»tae dispute to settle, wan a Power poss^sing
^reai rnQuenea overall the others. Shehsderea'
loflueace with tbe Indian tribes by means of her
extensive intercourse with (hem, and tbe posses-
(ion ofimportant posts in their vicinity. Sbe had
great power over Algiers — so much as to have
directed tbe terms of the lale truce between that
State and POrtuj^l. This influence over Algiers
was BO great as, in \ CMisiderabli; degree, to direct
their con d act, and had always been regarded as
one primary cause of depredation committed by
them upon our ships. She also had trrent influ'
eaee over tbe Councils of Spain, from that union,
in tbe present war against France, nxreed on to
prevent the estaUidnaeot of k RepuMiean GCovern-
aeat ia ttet cotmtiy. How tban eoUM they pos>
sibiy cuttsiiler, separately, subjects which appeared
to be so closely connected T Was it noi evidetrt
ihnt nn ftccoinmcidation with Great Britain was
tlie foundaliori^lbe corner-stone — af our arranga-
iiieiits with all tbe other P>>wers on which the
priispfrityofourcouniry — the security and eilen-
iionofour commerce — so greatly depended? [Mi.
Orabb spoke til order, but tbe Chairman informed
biiu ihat Mr. Harcsr was in order.J Will it not
then, continued Mr. H., result clearly that, ia
considering the acccmm^aiion with Great Bri-
tain, and buwfar the lermnof ilou^ht to cheel oui
approbalioQ, tbe advantages whicb it gave us in
settling our oiber diff.TeuCfs ought to be. taken
into viewT And, for this purpose^ will it not be
necessary Co consider all tbe Treaties, and inquire
.iototheir mutual relation.^nnd connexion 1 Mighi
it not appear that, even if the terms of that Treaty
were lev advantageous li) themselves, it was pro-
per to accrpl them, on a'ccount of the embarrass
ing circumstances under whicb it was made, and
the ad litional weight wbicb it enabled us to gir^
to other negotiations 1 Could there be any doubt
that lliis Treaty with Great Britain had facilitated
our arrangements with the other Powers 1 Had
our dispute with her continued, who could say
that we should not slill have been engaged in tb6
Indian war — that we should have had a peace with
the Al^erines, or been able to bring Spain to terms
so advantageous? Had we failpd to settle our
differences with Spain, or especially with Algiers,
by Treaty, we might, and probably sbouldiart
been obliged, to resort to force ; and, in that case,
how ^ould all our operations have been embar-
rnssed! how would all our efforts have been
divided and weakened by a dispute with a formi-
dable and hostile nation in another q'lorter, which
possessed the means of raising up so many ene-
mies against us. and might so easily bring a great
force to net against the weakest part of our coun-
try I But, by removing Ihi.^ power out of the way,
we were left free to act with undivided force in
other directions. Was it not, then, an objectof
ereat importance to terminate our dispute witfc
this Power, admitting that some sacrifices of im-
mediate interest were maile in the negotiation?
What individual, he asked, engaged with four
antagonists, would not wish, by any means in his
power, to get tbe most mischievous and formida-
ble of the four off his hands, in order to cope the
more pffectually with the re^t? If this idea was
just, the stipulations of all the Treaties ought to
be viewed together, and the advanlatjes of some
ought lobe balanced against any disadvantaged
which might appear In another. In order to do
this the whole subject ought to be discussed in
one resolution, thoogb they might be separated,
and no doubt would be,uj)oDthe call of any mei«-
ber, on taking the question. It was on this ac-
count ho had brought forward the joint resolntion
at first, [f these rcesooings had not the same
weight with the Committee which they bad with
him, they w^-uld, no donbt, amend the resolutioit
in the manner now proposed ; but he should Tote
for taking np the whole subject togf tber, beeauM
lie tfaosght M ought to be jointty considered, and
;dbvG00gle
•5»
HISTOBT OF CONGBESS.
Ea!teiitum tf TVeottet.
[Aral^l7S6.
•boutd therefora be agKJnit the preaeot amend-
Mr. Buck laid, the proposed ameDdment was
to separate the Treaties, aDd to take up one at a
lime. The question was, which ought to have
the prefere: ce7 He thought the British Treaty
oogEt 10 have the preference. The reasons to
Bupport this oninioD were founded upon the short-
ness of lime there was betwiict the present periDd
and the first of June. It was slated that this was
Ihe only Treaty about which there was likely lo
be any dispute. This was the only reason for de-
ferrJDg it, as he believed the reasons offered by the
gentleman from Pennsylvania for taking up the
panisfa Treaiywould Dolioflaenceihe Comniit-
tee at large. If the British Treaty was likely to
consume a good deal of lime in the discnssion, it
was the more oeceasary it sfaoatd be immediately
entered upon, because it would be necessary, be-
fore the posts were given up, to make some pre-
Tious arrangements with the GoTernor of Cana-
da, with respect to the posts.
'' What was now, he said, ibe situation of the
Treaty? After haTing spent four or five weeks
in settling the rights oT that House with respect
to Treaties; atWr a long and lolemn debate, they
had agreed upon a resolution, thai ibey bad a Coo-
slitutional right to judge upon the merits of Tiea-
ties before they carried them into effect, and that
they had a Constitutional right to the papers of
a negotiation, which resolutions they had caused
10 be insetted upon their Journals, This was all
they had done, after a sitting of three months.
with respect to the British Treaty ; he presumea
that House would be consistent in their measures,
and if they were, he presumed further measures
would be taken to obtain those papers, and it was
time to know what those measures would be. It
was lime that Ihe FBEaniENT knew if the appli-
cation was to be renewed, that be might be con-
aidering the matter. Mr. B. said, had he been
with the majority, had he believed the House
possessed a Constitutiouol right to the papers, he
should, long before this, have brought forward a
motion for the appoiDiment of a committee to
wait on the President with the resolutions ex-
pressive of the Constitutional rights of Ihe House,
and to renew the application for the papers; and
If the Prebeoent still refused, if the House acted
consistent they would then adopt effectual mi
Bures to obtain them. He presumed some measi
of this kind wa« (o be brought forward, and if
be wished it to be immediately done, for it was
high time that all preliminary steps were settled.
For, if this was not now done, when riiould
they gel through the business? Not ihi
Yet it is urged, that, because ibis Treaty will take :
up time in discussipn, the Spanish Treaty, 10 which
tWe will be no objection, ought to be taken up.
He believed there would be no objection to it. He
preaumed every gentleman was ready lo pass upon
iL But this was not sufficient reason lor them to
D preference, because, if that ergu-
meat was ganod. they ought to go through all the
*"'-'"''v before thnn, wtiicb was not likely to un-
dergo much discussion, bdbre they entered upon
the British Treaty.
H« could have wisbed that they might faa««
gone into (he consideration of that Treaty early
the aesaion. Mr. B. i<aid he was satisfied in hit
'n mind that that Treaty ought lo be carried
into effect ; but, though he had this biaa on his
mind at present, if gentlemen could sho^r it to be
-o replete with mischief as it had been represenl-
:d, he would join them in voting against it, not
because he believed the House had a CodsiIid-
lional right to judge of (be ezpedteney or merits
of a Treaty, but he should vole against it upon
revolutionary prioeiples ; for there was a possible
point to which the constituted authorities might
go that would make opposition a Tirtue. it was
possible that the Legislature might pass a law
which could not be said to be unconstitntional,
and yet be so wickedly oppressive, as that the peo-
ple might be justified in opposing it, and in pre-
venting its execution ; fo it might be in respect lo
a Treaty ; and, said Mr. B., if the British Treaty
is half as bad as has been represented, and I can
be convinced of it, I shall ceriainly vote a^iost
its eieeulion; but, if they were to pot it off oaiil
all other business was sone tbrough that they
were agreed in, they sHonld never get to that
question. As he perceived. 'however, that they
were going into a lengthy discussion dbod mere
preliminaiy' points about modes and forms, he
could wish tbe British Treaty might be strock
oui of the resolution, and that they might paa
upon the otber«, which he believed they were all
ready to do, and then the British Treaty might be
taken up by itself; he therefore made a motion to
that efiect.
Mr. Sedswici said that, when he made tbe
motion, yesterday, he had do intention to embar-
rass tbe Commitlee. That, atlfaough his motion
WB^ perfectly in order, was made relative to sub-
jects immediately before tbe Committee, and was
capable of any amendment or alteration which
their pieasure should direct i yet, white he was
' ' ' t motion on the table, and before he
1 resume bit seat, he was attacked by a
of observatiDDE, made by different gen-
tlemen, and with an indecency and warmth Ihat
he never before had witnessed in that Hoase, not
in any other popular assembly of which he bad
been a member ; nor, except in one Represenfa-
tive body, had he ever heard of such irregularities.
The object of the motion was to unite all the
Treaties, and to provide for their ececniion ac-
eotdiug to their respective stipulatiiMis. Believ-
ing, as he did, that good faith equally required ■
provision for all, and determined, as he waa to
give his aid for their provision, he knew no rea-
son why this should be done separately. Believ-
ing as Be did, he would not consent to a separa-
tion, nor, if such separaiion should take place,
couldheeoDaenttothe precedeneeof that Treaty,
which should accotnmtMlete the smallest number
of inbabilanu, to tbat which wet most interesting
to the great body of our fellow-citizeDS. If tbe
muority thought differently from him, there was
ootbiog is tlK motion, he ud iha iMaor lo anb-
layin
;dbvG00gle
HISTORT OF GONGRfifiS.
ArHiL, 1796.]
Execution of TVeaUe*.
[H. or 11- .
mil, which coutd compel them to &ct Contrary to
their omi opioioD.
He did believe that do tiiae was unnecessacily
to be eoDSumed in brin^iag thia subject taan Ql-
timale concluaion. But, ifhe concurred in opiaioD
with those who held that the House was perfect-
\j at liberty to make or to withhold provtsioD, he
would tell geDtlemen that the S[»Di!<h Treaty
eoDtaiaed more Ihea merely opening the Missis,
tippi— it conuined an alliance offensive or defen-
sive. He did not, however, believe that there bi-
iiteJ wiih any gentleman an inieation tootetraet
a provision for any of the Treaties except the
BtiiLsh. He wished the name good disposiiiuo re-
specting that, for he, in fact, ihouyht it more in-
leresiine to the United States than all the rest.
Il had becB his earnest wish that the important
subject of the British Treaty now before the Com-
mitiee, might have received a full discu».iron, by
the Representatives of the people; beonose he be-
lieved such discussion would have afforded the
inosi complete demonstration to the people of
America, and, he flattered himself, to a majority
of those Represeata lives, that the obieciion to it
was ill founded. That in it Great Britain had
made concessions to this country, which she ne-
ver had to any other. That thoce roncesaions
were of great value, and that none of our ftrants
were made^ bat for valaable considerations. That,
if a discussion should fail to produce a coDTictioo
of these troths, he had a confident reliaD<:e. and be
hoped the result of our refkctions wouH ahow
that it was not ill founded, that a HpirJI of accom-
modatioD and mutual concession would produce a
consent to make the eiperimeni which the Trea-
ty proposed. An etperiment of two yaara, which
couJd not, even in the vlewoftht warmest enthu-
■iasm, be attended with any conslderablencrifloes.
Bat this wioh must be abandoned. If. indeed, it
was true, as had been holden, that the House mast
co-operate in the Treaty before it had validity,
then, until anch co-operation, it was not binding-
on this coiutry, and if not on rtiis, then not on the
other contTacImf party. The first act to bo done
nnder the Treaty, was the delivery of the posts.
Previous to that act, preliminary arranfiemenis
DUBt be toade, and IDe time necessary for that
Srpose must not be consumed in a war of worils.
t was, therefore, compelled, as he viewed the
subject, lo abandon the earnest desire he had ful-
' ly lo discos* the merits aod demerits at the Trea-
ty, but, under thb misfortune, he tmd consolation
ID the reflaotii<n, that the whole svbjeri was be-
fore an intelliMU public, and there, nnder the
circnmsianceii, Be waa willinfi to leave it;
It might be proper, at this awful crisis of ih* af-
fairs of our country, the moit interMtin^ to a be-
nevolent and patriotic miad that poaaibly could he
presented, to hint, and he woald do it very oon-
ciiely,at ihose circumstances which ought to pro-
dnee union and concord.
Rern-ive those cashes which threaten onr peace
from w.thout. harnioniie iha several branch** of
our Qaremmeni. dispel disoord inmi the pn>)tiD
._ — J oooftjenee waere it wan doe,
t cnjoynent in ibis eointry
were moreandgrealer,aBdmor« within the reach,
□f the great body of the people, than ever hod beeik
the case in any age or country. To perpetuate
and improve Huch a scene of human happiness,
much ul the passion and of prejudice which might,
threaten its exiitenee, should be subdued. He
hoped we should not, at this early stage, blast thou*
fair prospects, which were unfolding to cheer the
hearLs of the friends of mankind, aud the lovers
.of rational freedom.
To deny a provisioD, as he feared was in the'
eontemplatioD of. some, he hoped not a majority
of (his House, was to set the branches of Guvem-
menl at war with each other, and in such a state
as to prevent the heneSls which would, result
from its harmonious adraiuistratlou, benefits which'
were of too great importance lightly to be^destroy-
ed. This Oovemmeat had done more lo advance
human happiness tban any which ever eiiated.
At its commencement we bad fully experienced
the effects of a Government of persuasion only.
The repntatton we had' acquired by our glorioua.
and successful slro^le for freedom was annihi-
lated. Confidence in iikdividuals was destroyed,
because the aid of Ooverument was not afforded
to (he support of private credit. Slates wera be-
come (he. nvalsof each other, and Legislative hos-
tility was not only declared but prosecuted, be-
tween them, with rigor. The people burdened
wilh tSTFs, and universally complaining of their
weight ; yet, the interest of the Debt which was
Hcenmulated and unpaid. amounted nearly toone-
half of the principal. Behold, now, said he, the
glorious reverse. Credit, public and private, was
restored ; manafactures instituted and extended ;
OMT navigation immensely iacreased ; anr weight
in the great political scale felt and acknowle^ed]'
foreign trade doubled, while domestic commeroa '
was quadrupled. At the time that the protection
of the frontiers alone, had coat more annually than
(be cootribution.i to (he Treasury under the Old
Oovemmeat, the- finances bad been so arranged,
(hat (be secnmulation of debt bad been stopped,
and a foundation laid, he trnaled, for its final dis-
charge; while so judicions or fortunate bad been
the imposition of burdens, that there existed no
inst cause for clamor or complaint. But what was
lofinitely more soothing to the honest and honor-
able pride of a veal Amaricaa was, the re-acquiai-
tion of character ; the American name wa* agab
held in respect, a«d as well the administration aa
(he form of our Qovernmeat were qootad hymen
of enlarged and enti^hlened miiMlK as eaamplea
for imiuiioD. Our ottiseni were happy, content-'
ed. and prosperooa, and advancinar, with unenm-
pled pTosreA in ever)>thing which rendered Ihem
rexpecuble. The beneficent progress of such a
Uoreroraeni, Hirely, ought not, for light or tririal-
canses, to be diaiurbed.
To lay a aeture foundalien, to perpetoale thia
happy aoene, it had been neceiwary to adjust «M
those cHUites of eontantinn whiefa threatenet' oat
tiaai)ai(-iy r-'>:[. ».->r(«d. Thiiwai 3011; l-y ilw
iM-ver.i> Tr>alr»K which the wairhtalgnardiaosh.p-
oi'IaePasstiHirr.dnringthHtaatyeMritindbroaTlit
lo a happy concltiBioa. That with the Ltdiaiia
.dbyGoogle
HiSTOm: OF 0(»«}IHBSS.
B. orR.]
EJimulim of T^tatiM.
fApiiiu 1798.
hid arrested the progresd of lara^ baibaritf , H.id
■laid the e&usioa at the bl*od of our froalier br«-
thren. That with Spain had provided tbpmcaa!
of«cconimodBtioo, andanadrancement in weultb.
bappiDCiii', and increaied cLviliutiuu Co llie people
•C the West ; aod wa* an iniitHnce of eHlightened
ma^DanimiiT, by which ibe Atlaolic Stales, tu
riwtr own prejudice, would voluDtarily Kaerifiue
benefits, to tJie ha^tpinen of a im^ll part of theii
couDtrjr. That with Algiorv had unduined oui
citizens, held in miserable aoJ savage slavery, an (
opened m prospect of immenie extent of protiiahle
eomoierce. ThatwithOreat Britain mtiote '
Ut htni wonndii, which otherwise threatened i
efit. The causes of eoraplaint between the two
oCHiDtrieh'were of such a nature, of such contini
■nee, bad produced so mneh irritation and resen
nrnt, that there remained no aiterDatire but wi
or amicable adjustment, in this sil nation, under
the instfuctioDS of the wisest of sInlei>meD, who
liad giren the highest evidence that be loved
eountry and knew its inter«H(s; nej[Dtiaiefl fay. a
man who had also ^iven decisive eridence of ubi-
liiy and inl^iiy in nemtiation i and afiprovad
by ^nalora who had, and still did. enjoy the con-
fidence of their country, a negotiatiiMi had been
made. Thu Treaty, he thought, hitd nieriu, and
(bat every part uf it couldbe vindicated. It had,
indeed, been vindicated, for, although tiie ofajee-
liotts to it bad been a thousand times repealed,
y<t they had been aa olVcn saliid'aetarjly answered,
so utiiii'act.)rily. thai, if ibern ever w^s a public
opinion well known, it was, that this Treaty ought
IP be cuculed with good. faith.
In ibis eitnatioD, then, did it not become the
bigbest duty ol the guardians of the public happi-
qess to sacndce pamion and resentment, to outti-
vale temperate lurb^arance and oioderatiuo, tu
Ivral wounds which had lieAo indicted, and make
an experiment which certainly wuukl cuft liule ;
ahd would demonstrate whether Itte friends ur
aproFifion was rejected, no man could I'ofeaee all
the evils which wonld he produced — charnaof
wanton violalionof the aaeredoesa of Treatab — a
divided and iiDtiasMoned country — n Q.ivernmefl(
whose ewmiial departmeota were in a state uf
boiitiliiy, aad to all thia, added ibedesolaliog hat-
ran of war.
He would not allow himself for a qoiaaai
hsaiuie; he never maid believe ibatit was Irae
aa rumor had 'leported, and an saetaed to have
been diwJared bf a genllemaa intbat Comniittee,
be oevM would believe that a majoiriiy of the &r-
prcaeDtaiirea would a«»ame the ni'gliiy wtfif^t uf
ntsponsibiliiy which such conduct wuuld imposi'.
They would nui give cuunienance to the mslign
predictions uf the enemies of Ri-piiWicuii Q jveru-
ment, that we should add tolheuunibjr uf sadez-
ataples tu prove that no peupln have the temper.
theniQiIermion.nud the virtue, necraaary to aelf-
Qjvernmjot. Tiul the sjCroo^ pa*iiuu»uf mjn
' e^n ouly bt coatrulleJ by arlitiji«l nrran^eiuenls
imtepeiident uf lUe iats* uf ibe peuplf. B«tf on
th« uUiqr liaud, Uu wjalJ .n^olUeaur ^t' ''*"*
the issue of our deliberations vruuld be productira
of the measures neceuary lo secure the peace,
honor, nnd iianquilily of our eountry.
Mr. GoiT hoped gentlemen would not take np
so much time in preliniinary dircussitm. He cnntl
not see any impropriety in the present qneilionw
He itaw no material diffarenee, whether they took
up one Trea'y or another. He believed that, b^
fore now, they should nave gone through three of
the m, if they had begun the business, instead rf
debating nhunt what thejr should do. The British
Treaty appeared moiit imporunt, bat he did not
tbitik it of much importance which was taken vf~
Mr. Buck -rose to know whether bik aidead-
meot of lb.- motion was in order.
Mr. GfcULjt-riH raid, be did not make tbe mo-
tion, but aeeonded it. He would not consent to
leave the Algiers Treaty, and to Klrike out llie
British T^reaty alone, because, if this question was
carried, be meant to make another moiioo to strike
out the Indian Treaty, merely to establish ibe
principle, that they were to take one by one — a
decisiun which he thought had been made yester-
day. He expected that the only intention of ia-
trmlucins: the words '■ the Treaty," instead of "the
Treaties," was tu ratabli^h the principle of taking
the Treslie.-. up srparately ; yet, a^er tnis princi-
|ile hnd been esiablishi'd, ttte gentleman from
South Citruliiu (Mr. Haapsn] hnd entered i.ioa
long discussion ua blending taem together; and
the g>-nilemBn frum Ma*.iaehuseti:t, [Mr. Sedo-
wiCE ] to show the impropriety of currying iota
vStQi ibe Brilin^ Treaty. He wa« in favuv of first
taking up the S, aoish Treaty; hut rathR tban
have lost two days in debating on tbe snfaject. hi
would have taken <upany other; but. as tne time
had been io^t, be hoped Uie 8,Mn>&h Trattv w^uld
be Uken up Smt, beuouse he did nut think any ot
thereasoos urged againat taking it up bad any
weight.
U WD* <«id that it was necessary to take up the
BriiiubTieaty, brcnu>e ininiediuie provision waa
iiece;uary in order to take pusseasiun of the post*
now occupied by tfae British ; but he knew or' no
»uch pruvisiun wi^ich was lo be made. They had
nlres y appropriated launey for the Military Bs-
lablifliment ; and it wus seen, every year, ibat
large eoolracl« were loade to deliver stores at any
pUce where they should bi required. This was
UQ Executive matter which did not depend on
theoi. U' the Executive, who had already naoied
the U>immiic<iuaers to be appointed in conforaitjr
to theTfeaty eboseiotake poasen ion ortbe post ^
(which they had a light to du under tbe Treaty
' Peace.) he wontd rote for any additional appro-
priation iur the purpose.
The discuuioaon the Spanish Treaty would
be Khurt, for it was a coaaterpart of the British,
tnd contained oocooditions hut lueh as were both
beral and highly advantageous toaU (Mris of ihe
U.iiled Sutex. It was (rue that the part of the
iitry he represented was more immediately
biuetiied by it, anJ it w.is a reason why be felt
liiili'cll'moi'e.iuierested iu that tban any other of
thaT.eatte*; Sttlalluwinj that reasua nut to have
4n^ WKi^ht witb the utiter miiialiers ol' the Huuse,
;dbvGoogle
msrpoaer of conosesb.
Amu ITW-J
niMmfiTitT ^ Trtaliet.
[li-MR.
]rM [1m coii*ii]«ratioa of tbe S|MDJ»lt Treatjr beins
CODsoiwDt wiih Uieonioiua or «ll, would, htt hoped
iuHueoM ibem to take ti up firat, aa it woulil be
aiieaiiml with no.debate.aDa no ume could be 1dm
by doing it. But tliere were «dilitioaal reawas
which weiffh«d with hiiD. It had been declarrd,
lliRt if the Bfiti^fa Trratf van not' carried into ef-
rKt,fcenil«men nould b« justiQed in ratiaguaiusi
tbe oiber TmlteH. He wished, iherf/bre. to'briog
■hose geatlemen to a vote on the Spioish Treaty,
before B diMsiitioe was had oq the other, aad net
whether they woalil refjac to rote fiir il. For
this reason, ae should note to strike out alio the
words 'and with the Indigo (ribes West of the ri-
ver Ohio," which would leare the Spanhih Treaty
iloue ia the resolution. He would wish to ac-
ties should be ukea up u^tfaer. The Totc of the
Coanailtee would deterniine which of the Trea-
ties sbould be taliea up lint.
Mr. Gii^a did not iuiend to huve mid one word
more iu this pn>litniaary disouuioD, if a waste of
lima bad OPt been impubed to those who were
in faror of eoruidering (he TreaJies separately.
WhereaK. if the Treattet had been auffiired to ban
been cansidereij diatinctly, a» was propoted. ihi
of them would hare been decided in onetfifih of
the tiiiie which had been speoi Jo debniinf upor
the maoDer of coDsidering lite subject. Tiie gen
Iteman from Massaohusetts [Mr. SaoawioK] had
nid tbot be did aot mean to embarrasji the CuiD'
mitiev by hringiog fucward bi^ reMiluiion in the
way he had,doiM|BBd that he had dune no mart
than was done by tbe geatlemao (toni Murih Gii'
rulioa [.Mr. Bt-ooNr] a few day» ago. Mr. G
WMiJd sHy nothing an to the tDlwtion ot Ihe gen-
tleman, bill it must be admitted that emharrus*-
meni waji the result of his conduct, la ttie other
reypeet he wa.talao miaiattea. far thatgentlfman
permitted the Chairman' tu be nested, and to read
the p.-iper» befure the Committee, prrriuui' to the
iatroductioD uf hi" motiDO, but the .genii emaa
from Uaavaehu'eiu had b«W4{bt forward hi* Mio-
tioa beliore ibe Chainaaa had optoed the aubject
The gentlemaii
minds gentle
not bees ai all agitated : aatl he was incliord lo
thioh. it wa> ihegcDilemaa's own ircitability which
fed biin Ui think othera were inlMofeisW.
GL-Ditemeo had tallEed of reapooubiliiy va tbii
salyect. f|^ looted upon himself as respunsible
Bpon ererjr occanoo; and he iaTited. miponsrfaili.
ty apoa thi» and efery o(her que»lioa. He wa»
eonsiiuited an agent for cedaia purpowa, which
he w>4 to execute lo the best of his abilily. IX
he (lid not do (hix, his couiitueBts woold have
ju«t cause of complainL
He did aot mean to fuUowthe exanple of the
gentlemtn frorn MaiSBe!ia*eUs. in soing iniu the
merits of lite Treaty at presen*. When il came
Ihrfore theCt>iRniitieehe*b(iuldHtate.BaaoitrinrIy
as pusaibl* tbe mutiTe* wbieb wouli!, actuMt ha
vote on the xuIumi. t* rr|Jy.tu.alllbe nraarb
of the jfKOlien»'H wllo respect to the Jupputev
and prosperity of the oatioo, would he equallywit
of order. He trusted all the Treaties wouU be
sepualely coiuidered. For this purpoao, he hoped
the question on striking out would be immediately
taken, thai they might go to business.
. Three aercral motions were put end carried for
striking out — " with the Dey and Regency of Al-
eiera," " with the King of Great Britain," and
'^with ce.tiin lodiao Irihas."
Mr. Oalutin then moved to sifike out the
woida, '' provision ou^t to be made by law," aa
tite exprenaioo seemed to imply that they were
not at liberty to pass or not to pass laws or carry
the Treaties into effect. He jwopoaed to iQtn>-
duce, iosiead of ihe above words, those used in
the resulutioD declaratory of their opinion upon
the Journals, viz: "ii la the opinion of this Con*
miiiee thit it is eipedieot to pus. the lawa oe-
cevsary."
M/..DAVTOH (the Speaker) objected to the
ameudnjenl as unnecetMTV- The phraseology of
the reaolutioa was the same wiib that used on all
similar occasioot. He called upoo gentl:-nten to
look into the Journals, asd tbey would find t bo
words were the customary words used. Why,
tbHi, carp at this form? Il would be impeaobing
their former prueeediogs. Do not let il be aaid,
added he, that.by uich a form of words they ktl
to ihemi>etves nu diacceiion.
.Mr. QiLBEBT wwhetltoabideby tbeusaalfoim.
Mr. Oiuaa did not think tbe wards had anjc
binding iufluciiee; but ibis was ihe first prece-
dent with respect to Treaties, and it would be as
well to adopt the w^rds which tbey had used ia
their declaratiua entered upon their Journals.
Mr. WiLUAMa tbought they ougbt to vole for.
the amendment, because it wb> new.
Mr. HABrea opponed the amendment, and said,
if it was carried, when it came ioto the Uduse h«
should more lo have the Cerm reslored, and call
for the yeas and nnya upon, the queMjon.
TheauMlion was put, and carried, 49 to U.
Mr. GAi.L.sTiN wished to kobw of tlie mover of
the resolution what w^s the meaning of carrying
a Treaty into effect with bad laiUt? For if it
could niti be carried into effi-ct with bad faith, he
ihought it unnecessary to say il should be curried
ioio t&xt with gwd lailhiend abould move to
tike out tbe words*
Mr. SaDuwioa said, he could not explain what
.. was to carry n Treaty into eff^rcl wjth.bad bich ;
he knew what it was tu carry a Treaty into eExt
wiih KDod faith, bat left tbtt gentleman who made
the ia<|uiry to discover the reverse.
■Mr. Tbaov said, if no faith waa pledged, ikaot
Ihe words ought In be struck out.
The que>(ioa waf )WI for striking out the words,
jod carried ; and the resolutioti for carrying the
Spanish Treaty into cffectheing befiire the Com-
GooDBitE said, he did not mean lo oppose.
tbe reMilutiuu fiir carrying iato effect the Spanish
TiYaiy, iMit wished to in tor 41 the Committee, and
iwtticularly ihoae who hnve bald up this idea,
' ii wjeiMKer a Treaty profidesoa a riageaieut|
ifliug counur to as ezialing biw, it brcumes oe-
.dbyGoogle
EOSTOHT OP CONOHESa
H.orR.J
ExeaUion o^ TreatU*.
[ApIll^ 17W.
ceiTy, in order to give Mich arraDgemeDt validity,
tbat a repealing Jaw afaoald be made : that, in Ibe
tea lb article of ibe' Spanish TiEaty, it is siipa-
kted tbat any goo^ on board a Spaninh ship
which may be wrecked on our coast, shali not be
■ubjert (o ibe payment of any creater dues or du-
ties than ihejr tvoald be in a lite case oa board at
an American tbsmI, which ii aDuulling our reve-.
Du« laws in this respect, which requires the pay-
ment of ten per cent. more. Be mentioned this
<mty to remind those gentlemen who bad held up
this id«a as intended to operate relative to the
British Treaty, that if it be necesstiry in the ooe
case, it must be m the other, and nut that be held
any such oniuion, for be believed a Treaty was a
law of ibelaod, withoucany interference of theira
to make it so.
Mr. SwAHwicK said, he would beg leave to de-
tain the Committee whilst he made a few obser-
vations upon the Spanish Treaty. At the ume
time, that that Treaty removed all cause of differ-
enoe between the United Stale and Spain, it did
not >hBcl(le their oommerce with respect to Bpain ;
it had not stipulated any particular regulationi
with respect to the ships of either country, butlefi
to each country its own regulations. When the
Treaty wa« negotiated, it was well known that
all those Sutes in the Union which grow wheal,
com. &c., would turn their eyes to the settlements
of Spain, a« opening a ready market for their pro-
duce. It might have been thought the policy of
Spain to have yielded up her markets on unlavor-
Bsle cooditions, bat she admitted us in her poru
on the same terms as ether nations.
He hndatwaya considered Spain as liberal with
reaped 4o commerce, because, although she may
shut us out of the' Havana, still, by a circuitous
eouru, we supplied their West India settlements
in time of peace; and it was a commerce that al-
ways brought freight with it. If Sj)ain had been
actuated by a n«rrow policy, she might nave sti-
pulated It 1(1 Ihem OD di«advanlageout terms, or
loaded our ships with restrictioQS to eouniervail
those upon her. No such terms are, however, to
be feund in the Treaty. Trade is by it left as
it ought to be, in a' great measure, to regulate
itself;
The great article, tbtt nentml shipa make,neu-
tral %ooAa, was recognised in this Treaty. What
greater advantage was it posnble for Spnin to
eoufer f It was even an artiole of the Tr«My
thatartlelea of HUBieMmee should never be const
deredas contraband. Honomble r^iaticws for
both countries I How happy wmild il be for the
GOiMtries i* Burope, if the same regulaiinos were
everywhere made I Tbere would then be no ne-
oexAy for offeviag honndca on provisions; for
the 'greatest bonnty was to let commerce be per-
fectty free, and to shackle or resIraiD it, was the
greaieiit raiffortune that could befal those even
, who imposed inch restrainla. He had always
cmsldered the free circulaiioi ^^i ibe necessary
prvvi-uoas ot'liie not <ialy su h ^nax bleasi&g, but
at fineniial to tne weliare ot tae buman race ;
and a* this was attended to in the Treaty with
apkir, he delighted to dwell npon it. What had
ihe said on the subject of cordage; iron, pitch, inr-
pentioe, &C.1 Had she said tbat these Talneble
articles of ours should not be carried in time of
war, but be de«med coDtraband 7 No. How ma--
nammouswas it in that nation, that tbey were not
afraid of our supplying their enemies with these
articles in time of warl Tbey discarded thot
narrow policy which had been embraced by oib«i
nations. Higbtly had the Secretary of State of
Spain been called the Prince of Peace. He not
only opened the sea to us, but, also, the noble rivrr
of the Mississippi, which a barbarous policy had
long kept shut against us. But did Spain stop herel
No; slie knew that il would be necessary we
should have a depot in the river for our produce,
and she has said that depot shall be her own city
of New Orleans, without laying either a tonnagt
on rcbselsora duty upon goods. AH she reqtiires
is simply payment for storage of the goods. The
consequence will be. as ismonifreqaently the case,
that her liberality will itself reward her, for the
town of New Orleans will probably become the
emporium of the Western world.
Spain had also taken great pains with respect
to filing the boundaries, so \> to preserve pence
with the ludiam, and to prevent those injuries
to which they bad been hereloibre too much
snbieal.
There was one article in the Treaty partienlarly
favorable to the merchants of this coontry. It
was well known (hat heretofore there were ofm
heavy embargoes on their ships in Spanish ports,
which sometimes detained them a cbnsiiferable
lime, to their gveat inconvemence. In future no
embaigo was to be applied to them.
Here, said Mr. S., it a list of advantnges. Bat
what were they to give in return t Embargoes
were not to apply to Spanish ships when in this
country ; but these seldom occurring here, were
nothing incompariEon to the advaetage? obtained.
It had happened heretofore, wry unfurtana'ely
for our metcbanti, that some of their vessels had
'lallen into the hands of Spanish privateers. Tbat
iMtioD was too magnanraaout to countenance such
proceedings; she oomet forward and says she
will make good the losses without stipulating anf
return of advantage. She might have cootrivetl
to u^l off Bgainit thi!^ claim. When they con-
sidered the importaaee of a frieiully under'ttind-
ing with this nation; ' that she wait the third raari-
time nalioo in Burope having seventy ships of
the line, besides a oonsideraUe tiumber of frigates,
and that their territory on this Continent joined
us, he trosted they should always culiivaie her
friendship. Hefjave a preference, in taking it up,
to the Treaty with this Power, to any he bad
lately laid before us, becaoae he mw on the Tacb
of it a liberal and enlighteBed policy, favorable to
ibis country.
He did not intend to' take up a mach longer
lime <d the Coaimittee. There bad lately, be
said, a considerable change taken place in the
pditicsof Spain. The Prince ot Peace i a t bet-n
so fortunate . s to effect a general pacification for
his oountfy, and they werH, perhaps, abuut to be-
cvaa nieduttirs in the afbint nif Europe; uw
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGIffiSg.
Ap«l^ 1796.]
ExecHtum of British Treaty.
[H.ofR.
■hould ha be sarpriied if «he liad at preBent lh«
meani of diciaiing termt to the maritime Powers,
br throwing the weight of h«r forces in either acale.
Should they, then, think for a motaent on a fe-
J'Ktionof ttus Treaty, because there might bedif-
eulties as to that with Sngland ? He lioped not
Spain may be of ereat service to this country.
Every one knows the interest which sbe has with
the Der and Regency of Algiers, and her neigh-
borhood to that Fowet. U'a time should come
when they should find themselres obliged to send
their frigatea into tbe.Mediterranean, where could
they find so convenient a port for them to put
into a* Cadiz ? It would be beneficial in every
Slot of view to keep friends with that country.
tusidering all these ciicnmataaces, he hoped
gentlemen wonid consider twice before they de-
termined to reject the Spanish Treaty. He conld
not refrain, on this occasion, from giving the
pniae which he thought due to the contracting
Mr. Daxton rose to request a vote might be
token upon the question, as be doubted not gen-
tlemen had formed their opinion upon the Treaty
before them ; and, if every gentleman in the Com-
milie« was to rise and bpeak as greatly at length
SB the geatienuui who had ji^st sat aown. they
would not have the question put for several weeks.
Mr.HASPER said he did not rise to queslioi|the
goodness of the Treaty, nor the pacific intentions
of the Ptiitce of Peace ; but to say that the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania had certainly misun-
derstood what had been said in that Committee,
when be staled that .any one had proposed to re-
ject the Spanish Treaty. Several geottemen, il
was true, had said, that if the British Treaty was
rejected they might reject others. But did any
one think that the members of that House were
like angry children, and because they could not
set all they wanted they would not have a part?
Be should vote for the Spanish Treaty, qs he in-
tended to vote for all the others.
The motion was put aud carried.
Mr. Hii.i.BODeE wished to bring forward the
resolutions which he had before proposed, except-
ing the Spanish Treaty, which had just been
carried. They were read.
Mr. OiLsa wished the phraseology to be altered
ao as to cofrespoDd with the resolution already
passed : which was agreed to.
The resolniions for carrying into effect the
Treaties with the Indian tribes, and with the Dey
and Regency of Alters, were seversUy put and
carried.
TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The resolution for carrying intoefiec t the Treaty
with Great Britain having been read —
Mr. Maci^t rose and said he meant to oppose
the resolution. He would make a few observa-
tions as to the reasons which had induced him to
disagree to the present proposition, and to ofier
another in lieu of it. When the question of the
British Treaty had been indirectly brought for-
-ward, he had attended with great patience to the
arguments for and against the questiou then agi-
4th Con. — 3J
tated. And here he must confess that, previous
to that discussion, he was rather inclined in fovoi
of the Treaty ; he thought there was nothing in
il which would warrant the outcries made agunst
it, but thai the opposition lo it might have been
raised by sinister motives, and that the people had
not had proper information on the subject. Id the
meantime he endeavored to search for himself, and
to gain all the information he was able to obtain
on the subject ; the result left on onfavtKable im>
presaion upon his mind. It appeared to him that
the Treaty did not give satislBction for past inju-
ries ;' that It did not provide for the loss of negroes ;
it did not assure recompense fur spoliations on
their commerce ; nor diu it propose to deliver up
the posts in the condition in wnich they were to
have been delivered U[) by the Treaty of Peace.
It appeared that they might become charged with
debts which they did not owe. It appeared to
afford no security for the future^ and decided the
question of neutral vessels makmg neutral goods,
against them. It appeared to take away their
best weapon of selfoefence, by narrowing the
power of that House with respect lo sequestration
of debts, to operate againsi the interests of the
United States. ^
Under this conviction, he turned his mind to
the coiisideraiion of the situation in which the
House of Representatives stood, and the duties
which they lay under. Their duties seemed to
divide themselves into two classes : first, the com-
plete Legislative power of ihe country ; the other,
those special duties in which tbey stood related lo
the people as their Representatives. In consider-
ing these duties he should not trespass much upon
the time of the Committee by going into detail.
It seemed evidently to be one of their duties to
guard against the encroachments which might be
madeby the Executive on the rights of the people.
The necessity ofsuch a guard would be apparent
whenever they looked into the Governments of
Europe, where it would always be found that the
Executive was inclined, by gradual step5 to en-
croach upon the Legislative authority. This be-
ing the special duly of the House of Representa-
tives, it was one that eoold not be dispensed with.
With respect to the present Treaty, a part of the
people consider that tne Legislative rignis of that
House have been encroached upon. The petitions
on ihe table, from persons in different parts of the
Union, were lo this effect.
In tliat litualion stood the House at that mo-
ment. They bad, in order to ground their delibe-
rations, and to form their judgment, called for
inforaialioo from the Phescoent. That informa-
tion had been denied to them ; they were left to
take their measures in the dark; or, in other
words, tbey were called upon to act without la-
formation. These considerations induced him to
offer a resolution in place of that now under con-
sideratioD.
" Tho House havtog token into connderatioD the
Treaty of Amity, ConuQBrcs, and NaingatioTi, between
the Unitad States and Great Britain, ciunmujucated by
.dbyGOOgle
'S7l
instoRT OF cON&aEss.
<^»
H. OF R.]
ExeCuiion of Britith Trttay.
[Afkil, 179B.
llie Freddent In bii Mettgft of the (Int day of March
lut, tn at opinion tint it ii in man; reapects highlj In-
joriouB to the inteleala of Iho United Statea ; yet, wore
they piMHiKitofuiy inibmiBtlon which eouMjtlati^ the
fmt aarriGcea contained in the Treaty, tbeir ■iDi:en
Saain to dieriati haimonyand uniCBlile tntaraMuaa-wllh
•U naliaai, and Ihnr nmtert widi to ct>«panta in
haalening a final adjaatment of ttie dUfefentei aalaiA-
iag between the United Statea and Onal Britain, migln
lure induced them to wahe ihoir oUectiott W the
Tmty ; bat, when Ihenf contMoplM* (he cotutuct at
£in*t Britain, in peraaratiDg, mnm tha Treaty waa
mgned, in the impnaanenl of Amerkan aewnau aad
^ auinte of Amencan veaaela, (laden with [mviaiona,)
contrary to the deaiest lifhta of neatial national whe-
ther Ihia be Tienad u the conalniction meant to be
giTen to any aitielea in the Tntaty, or aa eonlraiy to and
an infraction of the bue meaning and apirit thereof, the
Bouae cannot but regard it aa incumbent on them, in
Bdelity to the thut repuaed in them, to tbrhear, ondei
mich cdrcumatancee, taking at preaent any actrre mea-
•nrea on the sulqect t TTierefbre,
" Retohied, TTiat, under tha drcmnattocea afinraaid,
and with auch infiiTmatlon aa the Heaie posaeaa, it ii
Hot eipedient at ihia time to conout in paanng the lawa
meeaaary fi» oanying the aaid Treaty mte eflect."
* Mr. Giles wUhed the resolution just read miKht
ht prJDted for the use of the members, tog^etner
iritb the one they were then considering. He
moved tfant it be laid on the table.
Mr. Henderson said that (he paper last read
«Dnld not be laid on the table until the former re-
eoltition was disposed of.
Mr. GiLCe moved that the Committee rise, in
order to get rid of the resolution. He meaDl, he
said, to make some remarks upon the British
Treaty, but not expe,;ting that an opportunity
would be given to-day of speaking lo tne subject^
he was not prepared to enter upon jt.
Mr. Maclat withdrew his motion, on being in-
formed he might bring it forward io the House.
Mr. Buck said, it appeared to him time that all
the preliminary qaestions were settled, and he
"hoped it would be settled, before the Committee
rose, what should be done with the resolution
which had been read. He thought it was con-
sistent wilb the doctrine which was wished to be
established. He was pen^uaded that every gentle-
mao had made op bis miod on the sabjecl, and if
tbev debated for three weeks no change of opinion
irautd take place ; he wished, therefore, they might
dct rmine whether (he proposed resolution should
be taken up.
Mr. Jeremiah Smith said, the paper which had
been read by the member from Pennsylvania
[Mr. Maclat] was certainly not in order. He
Dad no objection, however, lo its being laid Upon
the table and ordered to be printed ; still he be-
lieved it proper that the discussion which might
tnke place snOuld be on the resolution before ibe
Committee, as that was the proper question. Par
his own jart he shouid be against a discussion
upon the British Treaty being gone into. It was
hia wish to take the question then ; but if jientle-
men deaired to go into the diacussitm he was
witlinjF to give them an opportunity.
Mr. Hti.i,RoiT6E Hnid (he reaolution might be
brought forward in the tlonse and' referred to the
Committee, and then if memben wished to have
the gea lie man's nWr. Macuit's] reaolution in thrir
bands it might be printed.
Mr. Oilb's agreed with the gentleman from
-ConneeticDt Those who were tqiposed to (he
Treaty wished to hare the resolation which h*d
been proposed in their hands. If gtiotletnen were
ready to speak to the merits of the Treaty, he
would have (hem proceed ; if not, he hoped the
Committee would nse.
Mr. BoDUKE hoped the Committee would Dot
Tiae. The resolution ot' the gentleman from Pena-
sylvania was exactly the reverse of the resolution
on the table. Ought a delay, he asked, to take
place on a suhjMt of snch importance? Gentle-
men say they wish to have an opporraoity of
speaking} bat to what porposel Wa* there a
member of the Commitiee who was not decided?
if (here was one member in that Committee who
would nay he was not decided, he would not ob-
ject to a debate taking place. But he believed
that that was not tbe case, and that a three weeks'
debate would not make the least alteration. They
knew that the British Treaty had long been (be
subject of reflection of every member; for what
purpose, then, defer a qaeslion which oo^ht to be
decided with celerity i H<* hoped, therefore, no
further delay woold take place, but that the qnes-
tion would be taken.
Mr. W. Ltman did not think the expediency or
inexpediency of (he British Treaty had been con-
sidered (hree weeks. The question which had
been so fblly disea^sed Was on tbe powers of tbe
HouHe. How could it be said that Ibe Treaty
had had an ample discussion, or that no change a
opinion woold take place T Even the gentleman
himself might think differentlv from what he then
didj after a fair discussion of the question ; and he
believed it would be canvassed in a fairer and
more ample manner than it had hitherto been
considered- It was said the re>>olution offered by
the KCotleman from Pennsylvania was the reverse
of ihe one now under consideration. The Com-
mittee, he said, conld not be forced to discass the
question in any way they did not like. With re-
.■<pect to the preamble to the resolation, it was by
no means new; iiwas a practice reeommended
by the greatest civilians : it was a kind rifwiBdotr
to the subject- He hoped the Committee would
rise, as it was near the usual time of adjourn men t,
and that the resolution would be printed.
Mr. MuBBAT did not mean (o enter inio the
merits of the Treaty, nor the resolution of the
gentleman from Connecticut, [Mr. HiLLHOiraK,]
more than to say that it met his bearty concuc-
reiice. The resolution for the jneiecution of the
Treaty brought forward by the genileman from
Pennsylvania, [Mr. Macla v.] contained a proposi-
tion directiv the reverse of the first. It was an
issue joineo. He believed that members -were
prepared to rote, and he wished the question to be
taken. In this &tHle of things it was extraordinary
10 him to hear the gentleman from' Virgin! a move
for the Committee to rise. Yesterday he had
united with that gentleman in pushing on the
.dbyGoogle
HISf ORT OP CONGRESS.
:ExtatUm df Brititk 7V«Uy.
[H.opIL
•tker Tmtr qaMlianB ; lie M* oaUed Open -that
rtlema to nunfreat ft tiiniUr dUpoaitioD ; for
would ag&in ■" '' " "* -■-■--- -
, ctely nulenteod
couDtiy, Mad die lime »> •ztremelf preniBC that
the execnlioD ef the Treaty wu more raltiaUe
ibui eny ezplaBatioB wbieh meiabert could gire.
The country requiret of iu,«t this eriau, acta end
not ipeechea.
Mr. GiLG* MicTed this stibject required some
uutnadTenioii. He wu f eateiday deurdiu of set-
some time would be apeat apon iL He ihoagbt
the pnUie at.lar^ had aright ro expect a fall otit-
eniiaiaii of the aubject. He-wat oi opiaion ihef
oaght joot uonecHBiarilp lo oacopf time. Ho only
wiahed for an opportunity for the lubjeet to b«
candidly arp aed. It wa& probable there mishl be
a Btran^ biaa an the paUic iniad. aftd he aoped
diicasaitHi would hare a food aireet. He hoped
a quealion already produonw eo mtBh •gttalioa,
would be tahao np aiid deeiaed Bpon ia a manaei
•oitable to ita importaaee. He tbtnwht it would
aot be treaiiiig' the pnblio mind with aaoffioient
decree of respect, lo take a haaty vote npoo the
■DDJeoC He did aot thinlc that geBllemeti in fa-
Tor of the Treaty would hare wished to hare got
rid of it IB this vny. He owned he could not
discover those merits in the Treaty which other
if they will c
good one, he would r
thought be ahould be able to show features in it
which were not eaiculated for the good, bat for
the mischief of this country. He hoped, tbero'
fore, the Committee would riae, and aufier a pro-
per discussion to take place.
Mr. Tract wished the Committee to rise. Tlie
georleman from Virjiaia wished to deliver hi^
■eniimeotson the oceasion, and he wished to hear
them. He was williDglagiTebim lime; for if be
had the task upon tiini lo prore the Briiiih Treaty
as bad as it had been represented to be^ he ought
not to be hurried. ■
Mr. HoLuvD was glad to bear that there were
gentlemen in favor of the Treaty ; at least, in fa*
Tor of discoaaUKi.
Mr. MoaakT would vote for the Committee to
riae, as he despaired of takiitg a role or of bearing
a word said t(>^ay on the merits of the resolutioo
offered. aeBtlemen will, of course, some pre-
mred, and he Irnaled that, however lenible the
Treaty may have strnek them in the dark, a little
discussion might dtmioinb their horrors. He
could not, however, suppress his surprise that
Dooe of those — and especially the gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. Qilkb}— who had entertained opi-
nioDii faoaiile lo ihe Tretiy so long, should be at
a loss to enter on its discussion with an eagerness
proportioned to iheir zeal and conviction of iu
mii^btr faults. But the gentleman, it seems, haa
li-ft hii paioH and brushes at home, a»d canoot
now attempt, though the eanvaa* is befor* bim, lo
rive us i&ose feataree of the Treaty which haw
been so cartcatared out of doors- ' Nay, the ^en-
ileman from North Carolias was not ready ; add -
even the gentleman from Pennsylvania's proiont-
itade failed bim, and the prompleit man certainly
be was he had ever known. He woirtd agree that
the Committee should rise, hoping that tne delay
was an aversion to do mischieF, and relying OB
the ^eets of a night's reflectton. Tiie pillow is
object,if gentlemen wished
> the question being now taken,
the plr— '"- "'•—
for taking a Boat decision j and
those who had arguments on the sabieet which
ibey. wished to deliver, migiit deliver tnem in the
House. It was true there would no! be so much
latitude aUow«d there as in Committee of the
Whole; bat there every member wodld have an
opportunity of speaking twice, which would he
at least enough for ihose <rho did not mean to
speak at all.
The ComiBiitee rose, and had leave to ait
vain.'
Hr. MacLAT wiriied to Uy the resolution wbieh
he bad i«ad i& the Conunittee before the House.
It was BGOwdiBriy read, and referred to a Conir
miltee of the Whole on the state of the Dniou.
Mr. Qallathv moved that the lesolntions which
had been agreed to in the CommiUae of the
Whole, might be taken np.
Mr. Jagkboh wrafaed the yeas and nays to be
taken opon them.
Mr. SenowicK said, that having etsmioed the
Jbunial and found that the form which he first
gave his resolution was the form which had been
always used, and that the form it now bore was
perfectly novel, be should move to have the origi-
nal fornt restored to it.
Mr. Habtlst hoped this amendment woold pre-
vail, and moved that the yeai and nays shoald be
taken upon it. They were accordingly taken,
and were — for it 37, against it S5, as followa :
Tub.— B«n)«inib Bmnne, TbeOphilos
Smith, Zepbaniah Swift, Owrfs Thatcher, Ridwid
Thonas, Mark TbanpsMi, Uikh Tiacy, John E. Van
Allen, Felq Wsdswonh,aod Mu> WiUiuiiB.
NjkTa.~T)Modi>nu BaikTi Abraham Baldwm, David
BudfLcinuel Benton, Tboma* Blount, Richard Bren^
Nathsn Brjsn.DempMj Bnrgea, Samnel J. Csball, Ga-
briel Chriilie. Tbomaa Clsiborne, John ntopton, laaao
Colea, Jaremiah Oabb, Samuel Eaile. William Findlej,
Jem* Franklin, Albert Gallatin, William B. Oilea, Jamas
QillaspiB, Andrew Qregf, William B. Omve, Wsde
Hampton, Onnrga Hancock, Caster B. Haniaon, Juhn
Haltiam, Joaathan N. Havena, Ji4ui Heath, Daniel
Hdatar, Jamas Holland, Oenrge Jaokaon, Edward Idv-
isgatea, Hauhew Locke, WiKiam Lyman, Samnel Ms-
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HISTOBT OF CONGRESS.
H.opR.}
Execution ef BritiA TWo^.
[Ar>l^l796.
Fradorick A. HiiUAibarr, Antiion; N«w, J An NiAo*
lai, Alexuidcr D. C^, John Paf«, Jonah Pa^cr, Fru-
«u Preston, Joha Richaidt. Bobut Butheiford, Jno. 8.
SbcHmnM, Icnet Smith, ThoioM ^?rigg, John Bnan-
wickgAbnlom Tstom, Philip V*n Cortluidt, Abn^
hta VenabU, and Kichard Winn.
Mr. Jackson mored that the yeu and dbjti
■hould be taken upon ihe resolutions for carrying
into effect the Treaties. They were taken upon
the Spanish Treaty j but every Toice being in
&TOr of it, the yeas and nays were dtsiwDsed with
OQ the Indian Treaty, as that resolution seemed
also to pass unanimoutly.
Mr. CBBieTiE making some objection* to the
resolution for carrying into efieci the Treaty with
Algiers, and some papers reUtiTe to it being con-
fidential communicatiODs, and reported lo a select
committee, on motion, the House a^jouraed.
Fbidat, April 15.
Mr. Abiel Foster, from Ihe committee to
Kiiom was referred the reaolation respecting the
expediency of preventing, for a limited time, the
ezportmtioa from the United States at Indian corn
«r com meal, rye or rye meal, made the fallow-
ing report, which was read and agreed to by the
Hoase:
« That m some parts of the United States, owing to
an tuifsToraUfl leMon the last yen, and other causes,
there exists a scardt; (^ the utidM mentioned in the
resolution ; but that generally there is a plentiful aup-
ply. That, notnithst&nding the pries of tbow arti-
cles are high, jet thej do not generally aiceed the
present enhanced prices of labor and other aiticleii
that recent inibcmstion of the state of fbraign markets
in Europe and other countries, doee not authorize the
expectation of any considerable eiportation of those
articles (rom the United States ; ^nt man; of the
piindpal seaport towns appear to be nell supplied with
the artide* in gneatioD, not only sufficient for their
own consumption; but in such abundance as to be
able to supply other parts of the United States, where
a acarci^ eiists ; and, from the information received
by the committee, it is probable those markets wUl be
roaotted to, as affording a prospect of bcttrapriccs than
can be expected fiom foreign markets. The cmnmit-
tee slso find that merchant milk snd stores in sererat
parts of the interior countiy, aie welt aupjdied with
Teij considerable quantities of the artidea mcutiaiied
in the resolntion, as well «s with wheat and Soar; that
the prices of the latter hare bllen very conaderaUy
within • shut time past. The committee, therefcre,
beg leave to submit to the Uoose the fcUowing reaolu'
" Retohed, Thst it is inexpedient to prohibit the ex-
portation of Indian com, com me«J, lye, or rye meal."
EXECUTION OF TREATIES.
The House took up, as next in the order of the
day, the resolution for carrying into effect the
Treaty lately concluded between the United
Stateu and the Dey and Regency of Algiers.
Mr, Sw«NW[CK said that one of bis connlitu-
Cnt9 had put into his hand this morniog a letter
from Captain William Penrose, at Algiers, dated
January 4, 1796, by which it appeared that the
American prisoners were not then released, but
kept at hard labor there. Mr. 8. rc«d the letter.
Hr.-OA'Li.ATiM made three sertral motioiufoi
committees lo be appointed to iaiag in « bill or
bills for carrying each of the three Treaties
agreed to into e^t ; all which were aneed la
Mr. G. also presented a nnmber of petiticw
from the Western country, si^ed by 328 persons,
praying for the English and Spanish Treaties to
be carried into effect.
THE TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The House then resolved itself iato a. Commit-
tee of the Whole on the state of the Union, wbeB,
hariog read the reatdulioc for earrying the Bri-
tish Treaty into effect —
Mr. Bock rose, uid wished the question to be
taken upon Mr. Maolat's reMlotioo. This was
opposed by Mr. MAniaon and Mr. Hillbodsb,
and then Mr. Madisok addressed the Chair as
follows:
Mr. M. said, on a aiibject of anch extent and
importance, ha should not attempt to ^ ihrou^
all the obserraiions that misht be applicable to it.
A general view of the subject was all that be
meant at present. His omissions would be more
than supplied by others who might enter into the
discntsioD.
The proposition immediately before the Com-
mittee was, that the Treaty with Oreat Britain
ought to be carried into effect by such proTisioni
as depended on the House of Refweseoiaiiret.
This was the point immediately in ^ueitioD. But
it would be proper in examining it to keep in
view also the proposition of the gentleman from
Pennsylyania [Mr. Maoi.at] which had been re-
ferred to the Committee, and which would be
taken up of course, if the immediate question
should be decided in the negative.
If the proposition for carrying the Treaty into
effect be agreed to, it must be from cue of three
coo side rat tons : either that the Legislature is
bound by a Constitutional necessity to pass the
requisite laws without examining the merits of
the Treaty or t]iat,-on such examinaiioa, the
Treaty is deemed in itself « gtwd one, or that
there are good extraneous r^soos for patting it
into force, although it be in itself a good one, or
that there are good extraneous reasons for pnl-
ting it into force, although it be in itself a bad
Treaty.
The first consideration being excluded br the
' 'on of the House, that they hare a right to
(^ the expediency or inexpediency of pt
judge
inglawn relative to Treatiesj the questioD first to
be examined must relate to the merits of tl)«
Treaty. He then proceeded to consider th«
Treaty under three aspects : first, as it related to
the execution of the Treaty of Peace in 17B3 :
secondly, as it determines tlie several points in
the. Law of Nations ; thirdly, '^ '^ respects the
commerce between the two nations.
First. He would not inquire on which side the
blame lay, of having first violated the Treaty cf
1783, or of having most contributed to delay ii^
execution, although he did not shrink from the
task under any appreheDstoo that the result cuuld
be disadvantageous to this country. The Treaty
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HISTOBT OF CONGRESS.
ExeaOim of BriiUh TVeofy.
ATBI^ 1796.3
itaelf had wured this tDqairr, aad professed to
•djust all ooDtrOTeniM on tbis autiject, without
t^mrd lo the matiu] conplatilts or preteoHJoM of
the partie*. It was, therefore, justly and natu-
nlljr to be expected, that the BimieenieQta for
■' It Treatjr into effect would have been
[H-orR.
eaTrjnitf tl
fouoded in
i in the most exact and »crupal(
procily. Was this the case? He was sorry, that
on the contrary, the aTrancemenis were founded
on the grossest riolaiion of that principle.
There were two articles whieii hsd not been
executed by Qreat Britain ; that which related to
the uegToea and other property carried away, and
that which required a aarrender of the posts.
The article unexecuted by the United States was,
that which reqwrad payment of all bona fide
debts, according to the Treaty now in qaestion:
this article is now to be carried into the most
complete effect by the United Slates, and dama-
E:b to the last fraction are to be paid for the de-
j. la there a reciprocal sfipolation by Great
Britain with respect to the articles unexecnted by
her? Nothing like it. She is wholly absolved
from the obligation to fulfil one of the articles,
Tiz : that relating to the negroes, Ac., and she is
to make do compensation frhatever for delaying
to folfil the Dtber, viz : ' the surrender of the
posts.
It had been urged in apology for those very
nnequl stipnlatioa?, that the injnry resulting
from a lorbearanee to surrender the posts, was not
■usceptible of any precise lioaidation into pecn-
niary damages. However plausible this might
appMir, it was by no means satisfactory. Com-
musioners, such as were- app6inted, with full dis-
cfvtion [or other purposes, might hare been
ofaaiyed with this subject, and if they could not
Imre done exact justice, might have mitigated
the injnstice of doing nothinK.
Apolofries had been' attempted also for the very
extraordiBKry abandoament of the compen^atioh
due for the negroes, Ac- It was said to be at
least doubtf:il whether this claim was authorized
by the seventh article of the Treaty of Peace,
Emd that Qreat Britain had uniformly denied the
meaning put fay the United Stales on that article.
In reply he inade two remarks. First, that it was
not tme that Great Britain had uniformly denied
tlie AHtericBO construction of that article j on
tlie contrary, he believed, it could be proved, that
tilt of late, Qreat Britain had uniformly adoiilled
this constraetioD, and had rejected the claim on
DO other ^roond than the alleged violation of the
fourth article on the part of the United States.
Hot had it been true that Great Britain had
uniformly asserted a different construction of the
article, and refused to accede to ours, niiat ought
to have been done? ' Ooght we to have at once
seceded to hers? By no maans. Kaeh party
bad an equal right to mterpretthe compact ; and
if they conld not agree, thev ought to have done
in this what tbey did in older cases where they
could not agree ; that is, have referred the ueltle-
xn«nt of the meaning of the compact to an arbi-
trasttoD. To give up the claim altogether, was to
sdxait, either that Qreat Brttain haa a better right
than the United States to exjdain the conlroverMl
ptnni, or that the United States had done some-
thing which in justice eatled for a sacrifice of
their equal right.
It was evident, he thought, from this view of
the subject, that the arrangements with respect
to the Treaty of Peace were frequently wanting
both in justice and reciprocity.
It would seem, from the face of the Treaty, and
the order of the articles, that the compensation
for the spoliatioiu on our trade bad been com-
bined with the execution of the Treaty of Peace j
and miffht therefore have been viewed as a sub-
stitute Mr the compensation for the negroes, Ac.
If this was the meaning of the instrument, it
could not be the less obnoxious to reasonable and
Ikir judges. No man was more thoroughly con-
vinced than himself of the perfect justice on
which the claims of tbe merchants against Great
Britain were founded, nor any one more de»roiis
to see them fully indeami&ed. But compensa-
tion to them could never be a just sabitituls for
the compensation due to others. It was impossi-
ble that any claims could be better founded than
those of the sufferers under the seventh article of
the Treaty of P»ce ; becaose they were sup-
ported by positive and acknowledged stipulation,
as well ashy equity and right. Just and strong
as the claim of the merchants might be, and eer~
tainly were, the United States could not be
obliged to take more care of them than of the
claitaa equally jast and strong of other citizens ;
much less to sacrifice to them the claims fbr pro-
perty wrongfoll^ carried off at the close of the
war, and obtaining stipulations in favor of the
mercantile claims, the mercantile claims had
been relinquished, and the other claims provided
for; he asked whether the complaints of the loep-
chants would not have been as universal and a»
loud as they would have been jusif
Besides the omissions in favor of Great Britain,
already pointed out with respect to the execution
of the Treaty of Peace, he observed, that condi-
tions were annexed to the partial execution of it
in the surrender of the Western posts, which in-
creased the general inequality of this part of the
TreBty,and essentially affected the value of those
obiecta.
The value of the posts to the United States
was to be estimated by their influence. 1st, on the
Indian trade ; 2d, on the conduct and temper of
the ladians towards the United States.
Their influence oa the Indian trade depended
principally on the exclusive command they gave
to the several carrying |daees connected with the
posts. These places were understood to be of
such importance in this respect, that those who
possessed them exclusively wotild have a monop-
oly, or nearly a monopoly, of the lucrative inter-
course with a great part of the savage nations,
Qreat Britain naving hitherto possessed these
f laces exclusively, has possessed this advantage.
t was expected that the exclusive transfer of
them would transfer the advantage to the United
States. By tbe Treaty now concluded, the car-
sying places are to be enjoyed in oommoD, tAd U-
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HISTORY OF CONGBGSS.
H-opR.]
EjHCutim ^ BrOith Tbvatg,
[A#HL,11V«.
Till be deMnnia«d by the respeelire «4f utagM
under which Britisii and American .uadeis wiU
engage in ^e trade, which of tfaem it to shore
most in it Id this poioi of view be thought the
r^iilatioD highly impoliliv and iuji
would sar litue of the adruiUge wni
tish would have in their superior capital: thai
must be encountered in all our commercial riral-
«hi{iG. But there wassDother consideration which
ought to bare great weight on thii subjecL The
goods importea for the Indian trade thiough Can-
ada pay no dutiei. Those impoiMd ihrough the
tloited State«for that trade, Will have paid duties
from seven to ten per eent^ and every one must
see that a drawback is impracticable, or would be
srtieDded with an expenM which i~
W9uld not bear. So far, then, as the importance
of the poats is to be considered in a oommercial
view, they are, ia a very great meafure, stripped
nf it-by the condition annexed to the surrender of
them. Inuead of a monopoly in our iavor,.tbe
Mrrying places aie made common under circum-
sttuce* which may leave a monopoly in the
hasds of Great Britain. And this is done, too,
by an article which is to last forever.
Second. The influence of the posts on the gen-
eral conduct of the Indiaiu, is well known to de-
End chiefly on their ii>fluence on the Indian trade.
pTOportioD, therefore, as the conditioD annexed
to the surrender of posts afiects the one, it
a&et the-otbei. If the British should c on
te enjoy the Indian trade, they would continue to
inJlitence the Indian conduct ; if iwt in the same
d^es as hereiofoN, at least ia so gnat a degree
aa to condemn the article in question.
He mentioned the permission to aliens to hold
Imd in perpetuity as a very extraordinary feature
in this part of the Treaty. He would not
quire howlar this might be authorized by Con
tutional principles. But be would coclinue to
aay, that no example of such a stipulation was to
b« found in any Treaty that ever was made,
either where territory was ceded, or where it was
acknowledged by one nation to another. Al-
thpugh it was common and right in such cases to
make regulation in favor of the property of the
inhabitanta, yel he believed, Uiat in everv case
that had ever happened, the owners of landed
property were universally required to swear atle-
E'ance to the new sovereign, or to dispose of their
nded property within a reasonable time.
He took notice also of the inequality of the
■tipAlation which opened all the ports of the
United SatCB,ar8 the ooaditton of having those
of an unimportHBt province of Great Britain
opened in return.
With respect (o the Mississippi he could- not
but consider the clause relatine to it as being sin-
gnhrly reprehensible. Happily the adjusimeni
of oar elaiins with Spain hag been brot^ht about
before any evil opemiiou of the clause bad been
experieneiad. But the tendency at it, he thought,
cQnId not be doubted. Il was the more remaika-
hlt, that this azteDsion of the privileges of Oreat
BnMin at the Mississippi beyond tboee in the
TlMtyof FaaiMj^uld ]iaveWD«4iiuttod.iato
(he new Treaty, beeatiie it is sBpyoMd b^ iha
Treaty itself, that Great Britain Btay be deprived,
by her real bourtdary, of all preteasioas to a abate
in the banks and waters of ihe-MississippL
Secondly. With respect to the great points ia
the Law of Naitons, eonpreheoded in tli« slipo-
lations of the Treaty, the same want of real reri-
prociiy, and tbe same (aerifice of the intereais of
the United States, were conspicuous.
It was well known lo have been a great and
favorite object with ibe United States, "that free
shjpu make free goods." They have eatabkished
(his principle in all their other Treaties. They
have witnessed with anxiety tbe general effort,
and the successful advances towards incorpora-
ting this principle into the Law of Nations ; a
principle fri«idly to all neutral nations, and par-
ticularly interesting to the United States. He
knew that at a former period it had been con-
ceded on the part of the United Sutes that the
Law of Nations stood as the present Treaty regu-
lates it. But it did not follow that more thait
acquiescence in that doctrine was proper. Then
was an evident distinction between silentlr ac-
quiescing in it, and giving it the support of a
formal and positive stipuiahon. The tortser w«a
all that could have been required, and ^e lsit!ec
was more than ought to have been unnecessanly
yielded.
In the enumeration of eontraband aitictc^tbe
Treaty was liable to limilar observaliDaa. Tfae
circumstances and iaiereils of the United State*
had given way to the particular views of the other
Krty. The example in all other Treaties haa
ea disregarded. Hemp, tar, pilch, turpenlin%
&C., imporlanl staples of this country, are, with-
out even a pretext of reciprocity, subjected to coo-
fiscation. No nation which produced these artr-
cles bad, he believed. Treaties at present makiiig
*'~~ ime sacrifice, except Denmark, who, ia the
1780, had been induced, he knew not by what
IS, into an explanation of tbe Treaty <^167<^
by which these articles are declared to be contra-
band. He obserred, that this supplementary and
explanatory agreement between Great Britain
and Denmark appeared to have 'been the model
selected for tfae contraband list in the Treaty now
.question. The enumeration in the latter wm
transcribed, word for word, from tbe ibnoer. with
a single exception, which might be thoaghi re-
markable. The article of horaet, which was in-
cluded in the original, was dropped in the copy.
In this iHurticular the article had departed ftom
I also, aiihoogh in general the Tresir seem-
have availed itselfwherever it readily could
of his authority.
But, what was lai n^ore remarkable, the copy
had proceeded just as far as aoiwered tbe purpo-
ses of Great Britain, and stopped at the very point
where the ordinal would have answered the just
aod essential purposes of the Uotted Sta(e«. Af-
ter enuraereiing the articles to be deemed contra-
band, the Danish article goes on in the words fol-
lowing, viz: "But it is expressly declared that
among cootmband mercbandisea idiall not be eom-
Brehended fith and ineais, wiketkct Owsh or aaltad
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^asi
m$TC»^ OF CONOJteS^
Rptaaim.ofBntuK Traattf.
rH.opR.
wheat, floor, conii (» other gnia, boMU, ail, wine,
■Dd geaerallr wlwt«Ter«etf (s Tot ihe nouiishmeut
Mid sappon of Uf«, all of wbieh mav at all times
be soU and imupoited like uty- otnei merchait-
dises, BT«ii ta places held by an enemy of the two
CrowDa, provided they be not hesieged oi hlock-
aded."
Thii Tiew of the subject naturally led him to
take notice of the clause in the British Treaty re-
lating to proTiaiona; which, to say the les»l, ware
an ambiguous counteiuuice that was extremely
disagreeable, or which rather seemed to carry a
neceasary implication that proviaioo, thoagh not
bound to besieged oi blockaded places, m^t, ac-
cording to the existing Law.of Nations, be resid-
ed a« contraband. According to the geouiaeliaw
of Nations, no articles which are not expressly
and generally oootivbaud, are so, exoept in the
single ca«e bl their going to a beeiesed place i yet
it is admitted in the Treaty that ilieie are other
cases when prorisiona may be coDiraband, whence
the implication results, that one of the caees might
be that which bad been assumed and put in force
bv GKBt Britain in relation to the United States.
The little casai which might be devised as appur-
tenant to the law which condemns what is baaod
to blockaded plaees, cannot satiafy the import of
the slipulation, because such oases cannot be pre-
sumed to hftve been in thecontempUtion of thepar-
' ties. And if the partieulai case of piovisions
bouad toaoountry Btwar.allhoughnoIlonbeBieg-
ed place, was not in<aiit to ba one of the cases oj
coDinband, according to the eijstiog Law of Na-
tions, how necessary was it toMvesaidsoi and
how etsy and natural would tkil course h^re been,
with the Danish eMmple oa the subject before
tlkeir eyea 1
0» lbs supposition that provisions in our own
Twarb boond to eonutties at war with Oraat Brit-
ain, oao be now seiied by- ber for. her own use, on
tha condition stipolated, this feature of the Trea-
ty pcesanty itaelf ia a v«ry serious licbt, indeed,
etpeeiaily if the doctrine' be resMled to as laid
down by the Kzecolive, in the letter of the then
Secretary oTSnte [Mr. JePf sasoNJ to Mr. Pinok-
■UT, OD the 7ih September, 1793. This letter is
a comment on the British iastTuctioDS of June 8,
17S3, for seizing oeiuial provisions. After stating
the measure aa a flagrant breach of the Law of
Nations, and aa ruinous to our commeroe and
agriculture, it has the following paragraph: "This
act, too, tends directly to draw us from that state
of peace in whish we ara wishing to remain, It
is an essential character of neutrality to furnish
no aids not stipulated by Treaty," that is, nid Hx.
H^bya Treaty made before the war, "to one
party which we are not equally ready to furnish
to the other, ff we permit corn to be seat to
Oretl Britain and her friends, we are equally
honnd to permit it to France. To restrain it,
would be a partiality which mou lead to war ;
*iid between restraining it ourselves and permit-
ting her enemies to reainin it uafishtfully is no
'iflemtse. She wonU consider this as a mere
pMtexi, of which ahe would not be the dupe ; and
ovrtuhananblapfUBd'CwiUwp '
plain it t. Thus we- should see ourselves plunged,
by ihi& unauthorized aci of Great Britain, into a
war with which we meddle not, and which we
wish to avoid, if justice loall pirlies and from all
parties will enable us to avoid it," He entreated'
the Commiitef to bestow on this inieresiing Ex-
ecutive document all the atlentioo which it de-
laoded.
The articles probilHtiiig sequestration was next
considered by Mr. M. He said he should probabljr
be among the last who would be disposed to re-
sort to such an expedient for redress. But he.
could not approve of a perpetual and irrecorera^
ble abandonment of a defensive weapon, the ex-
of which might render the uk of it unne-
cessary. The situation of this country in relation
to Great Britain was a peculiar one. As we had
~ fleets and armies to command a respect for
rights, we ought to keep in our bands all such
ans Bs our sliuatioo ^ve us. This article was
ither instance in which no regard was Mid to
reciprocity. British subjects, it was well known,
had and were likely tohave in this country a great;
deal of the property of the Kins made mcredi
American citizens, it was as well known, had \i>
tie. and were likoty to have little of the kind in
Oreal Britain. If a real reciprocity had been in-
tended, why were not other kinds of private prop-
erty, as vessels and their cargoes, equally protect-
ed gainst violation 7 These, even within the jit-
risdiction of Great Britain, are left open to seizure.
and sequ est ration, if Great Britain finds il ezpe-
dienl. And why was not property on the high
seas under the piotectioa of the Law ol Nations,
which is said to be a part of the law of the land,
made secure by a like stipulation? This would
have given a face of equality and reciprocity lo
the bargain. But notbins; of the sort makes a.
part of it; where Great Britain had a particular
interest at stake, the Treaty watchfully provides
for it ; when the United States hare an equal In-
terest at stake and equallv entitled to protection,
it is abandoned to all the aangers. which it has ex-
perienced.
After taking this brief notice of the positive
evils in this part of the Treaty, he might, he said
add the various omissions whiiih were chargeable'
on it. But as he should not pretend ts exiuust
the sabject, he would mention one onlv : the not
providing for the respect due Id the exhibition of
sea papers. He could not but reifard this omis-
sion as truly extraordinary, when he observed that
ia almost every modern Treaty, and particularly
all OUT other Treaties an article on this sulgeei was
regularly inserted. Indeed, it had becomealmosi
an article of course in the Treaties of the preaent
century.
Thirdly. The eommeroial articles of the Tr«a>
ty presented the third aspect under which he waa
to consider it. In the free intercourse stipulated
between the United States and Oreat Britaiit, it
could not be pretended that any advantage wis
gained by the former. A Treaty was surely not
neceasery to induce Qrent Britain to receive oui
raw matwials aKd to sell us her mawifaauiTes. Oa
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESB.
H.orR.]
ExtaOim t^ BrilMt TVeoty.
[Afbil, 1T9&
the other hkiid, consider what ma given np bj
the United Buiea.
When the Goyernment came into operation, it
ia well knowa that the American toniiBge em-
ployed in the Brilibh trade bore the most incoD'
aiderable proportion to the British tonnage. Then
being nothing on our side to counteract the influ-
ence of capital and other circumstances on tht
British side, that disproportion was the nBtural
state of things. As some balance to ihe British
adTantages, and particularly that of her capital,
onr laws had made several regulations in favor of
oar shipping, among which was the important
couragemeni resulting from the difference of ten
per ceoL in the duties paid by American and fo
reign vasseK Under this encouragement thi
American tonnage has increased in a very re-
spectable proportion to tne Briiifih tonnage. "
' hiaa Great Britain ever deemed it prodeot t
tempt any countervailing measures for her ship-
ping, well knowing that we could easily keep up
the differences by further measures on out side.
But by the Treaty, xhe has reserved to herself Ihe
right to lake such countervailiiig measures against
our eiisiing regulations; and we have surrender-
ed onr rights to pursue further defensive measures
against the influence of her capital. It is juaily lo
be apprehended, therefore, that under luch a re-
storation of Ihe former state of things, the Ameri-
can tonnage vrill relapse to its former dispropor-
tion lo the British tonnage.
When he turned hisatlention to the West India
branch of the subjectj there was still greater cause
for wonder and dissatisfaction. As the Treaty now
stood, Great Britain was left as free as she ever had
been lo continue the entire monopoly of the inter-
course to British vessels. Recollecting, as he did.
and as everjr member of the Committee must do!
the whole history of this subject from the peaCE
of 1763, through every subsequent stage of oui
Independence down to the mission of the laie En-
voy. II was impossible for him to express hia as-
lontsbmenl that any Treaty of Commerce should
have evar been acceded to which abandoned thi
very object for which such a Treaty was eve
contemplaled. He never could have believed that
the time was so near when all the principles,
claims, and calculatiooe, which have nerelofore
prevailed among all classes of people, in every
part of the Union, on this interesting point, were
to be so eom^etely renounced. A Treaty ot Com-
merce with Great Britain, excluding a reciproci-
ty for our vessels in the West India trade, is a
phenomenon which had filled him with more sur-
prise than he knew how to express.
He mi^t be told, perhaps, Ist. That Qreai
Britain granted to no other nation the privilege
ffranted to the United States of trading at all with
her West Indies ; and, ddly. That this was an im-
portant relaxation of the Colony system eatabliah-
ed among the
To the first, it wu enoagh to reply, that noother
nation boT6 the same relation to the West IndlM,
as the United States were essential to those
blaods { and the inUle with them had been mi-
,3 of Buropc.
lOf^h to reply, that ni
mitted parely'oB that aeeontrt, and not as a bene-
ficial privilege lo the United Slates.
To the second, that it was not true that the
Colony system required an exclusioo <tf foreign,
veswls from the carrying trade between the Col>
onies and foreign countiiee. On the contrary, Ihe
principle and practice of the Colony system were
lo prohibit, as much as would be convenient, all
cessarv for the Colonies, ihep to allow ^e v
of sucn foreign countries a reciprocal right of be-
ing emi^oyed in the trade. Great Britain had ac-
cordingly restrained the trade of her Islands in
this coQDtry as far as her interest in them would
permit. Bnt had she allowed our vessels their re-
ciprocal right te carry on the trade so far as it waa
not restrained? No. Here riie forced a monopoly
in her own favor, contrary to justice, and contrary
to the Colony system of every Enrc^iean nation
having Ckilonies ; which, without a siLgle excep-
tion, never opens a trade between their Colonies
and other countries without opening it equally to
vessels on both sides. This 19 evidently nolhinr
more than right and fair. A Colony is a part (f
an Empire. If a nation choose, they may pro-
hibit all trade between a Colony and a foreign
both sides as well in thecase of Colo-
nies as of any other parts of their dominions. Qreat
Britain has the same right to prohibit foreign
trade between London and the United States as
between Jamaica and the United Slates ; but if no
such prohibition be made with respect to either,
she is equally bound to allow foreign venek a
common right with her own in both. If Great
Britain were to say that no trade whatever should
be carried on between London and the United
States, she would exercise a right which ire could
complain of. If she were 10 say that no Ame-
in vessel should be employed in the trade, it
would produce just complaint, and justify a re-
ciprocal regulation as to her vessels. The ease of
the trade from a port in the West Indies is pre-
cisely aimilar '
To jdace ihe omission of the Treaty to provide
recijwocity for onr vessels in the Wen India
ade in its true light, it would be ^per lo attend
lo another pan of the Treaty, which tied up the
hands of this country against every effort for mak-
ing it the interest of Great Britain to yield to onr ,
reasonable claims.
He then pointed to the clause which reMrama
the United States from imposing prohibitions or
doties in any case on Britain which did not ex-
tend to all other nations ; obeervioo' that the clause
made it impossible to operate on the unreasonable
policy of that nation, without suspending our com-
merce at the same time with all other nations
whose regulations with respect to ua might be
~^er so favorable and satisfactorv.
The fifteenth article bad aaoiner eztraordinary
feature, which muM rtnke every obaerver. In
other Treaties, p«ttiflg the parties on tlw footiaf
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF Congress.
A»I^ 1796.]
Exteution o^ Britith Trtaty,
[H. or R.
of the moat favored nation, it was itipdaled that
where new favors were graoted to a porticalar
nation in retura for favors received, the party
claiming the new favor sbontd pay tbe price of il.
This was just and proper vrbere the footing of the
most favored aalion is establisbed at all. But this
article gives to Great Brilaia the fuUbeoefiiof all
]nivileges that m\f be granted to any other aa-
tion, without requiring from her the same or eqai-
valent privileges with those granted hv such na-
tion. Hence it would happen that if Spain, Por-
logal, or Prance, should open their Colonial port?
to the United Slates in coasideraiion of certain
privileges in onr trade, the rame privile^ would
result gratis, and ipto facto, to Qreat Britain. He
considered this stipatation as pecuiisily impolitic,
and that it conld not fail, in the view of the Com-
mittee, to form a very solid BQd weighty objection
to the Treaty.
He was not unaware of the atrew that wonld be
laid on tbe article relating to the East Indies. He
should leave lo othera better acquainted than him-
self with this branch of the subject to explain tt.
He made two obserrationsj however: one was,
that judicious and well mformed irentlemen,
equally judicious and well informed with any who
could be consulted, considered the article as offer^
iag not a shadow of advantage to the United
States. The other was, that no privilege was
stipulated which had not been uniformly nereto-
fore granted without stipntarion ; and as the grant
coold have proceeded from no motive but a pure
regard to the British tntereat in that country, there
waa everyreasAnableBeoarity that the trade would
continue open as it had been, under the influence
of tbe tame consideration.
Sach being tha character of tbe Treaty, with
respect to the execution of the Treaty of Peace,
the great principles of tbe Law of Nations and
the regulations of commerce, it never eould-be
vieired as having any claim to be carried into
effect on its own aceouat.
Was there, theu, any considerations extraneous
to the Treaty that could fnrnish tbe requisite mo-
tivesf On this subject, he observed that the House
was wholly without information. And for him-
self he was ready to declare that he had neither
aeen, nor known, ndr heard, of any cireumstan'oes
in tbe general posture of things, or in the particu-
lar relation of this conntry to tfaem, that could ac-
count for the unequal and injurious arrangements
which we were now called upon for laws to exe-
Bat there -wta sometbin^ farther to be taken
into the account. The eontinuance of the spolia-
tions on onr trade, and the impressment of our
aeameo, whether, as stated in the motion of the
eDtleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Maclat,] to
! anderatood as practical comments oo the Trea-
IT, or as infractions of it, could not but enforce on
tae minds of the Commiitee the most serious re-
flections. Here he referred agaio to the passage
he had read in the letter from Mr. Jefferson to
Mr. Pinckney, and asked, if, as there stated by
the Executive, our neutrality and peace were to
b3 •■ p<M^ ^T pemuitiiig pnieticaa of that kiad,
be u
wha t migh I be tbooj^ht of otir Kiving efiect, In the
midst of^EUch practices, to a Treaty froin which
a countenance might be derived by the nation for
going on with them.
He was aware tbat the Executive, notwith-
standing the doctrine and policy laid down as
above, had finally concurred in the Traaty under
such circumstances. But he did not consider that as
invalidating the reasoning drawn from the present
state of things. He might, he raid, be stepping
on delicate groundj but he could not think it im-
proper to remark, that it was a known fact tbat
tbe Executive aetoally paused for some weeks
after the cmieurrence of the Senate, before the
Treaty received his signature ; that it is birly to
be presumed that a renewal of the spoliations, and
a recollection of the light in which they had oeen
represented, were a ground of the pause ; that on
that supposition be was prdbnbly influenced in
signing the Treaty when he did, by an expecta-
tion that such a mark of confidence in the British
Qov^niment wouM produce an abolition of the
nnlawM proceeding, and, consequently, if it had
been foreseen that the spoliations would nave been
continued as we find them to be, the Treaty
would not have been then signed, or if it bad not
then been signed, it wonIS not be signed, under
'' ' of the mdment wuen it fhll*
under our consideration.
He should conclude, he said, with taking notiee
of two considerations which bad been much used
as inducements to carrying the Treaty into effeet
1. It was said that the greater part of IheTteaty
was to continue two years only after the present
war in Europe; and that no very great efirseould
grow out of It within that period. To this he re-
plied, ia-the G»t plaee, that ten of the articles
containiog many very ofajeetionahle stipulations
were perpetual. In toe next place, that it would
be in tbe power of Qreat Britain, at the expira-
tion of tbe other articles, to produce tbe same
causes for a renewal of them, as are now urged in
' r favor. If we are now to enforce the Treaty,
Oreat Britain should stir up the Indians, and
refuse to pay the merehanta for the property of
which she hat plundered them, can she not at the
end of two or three years plunder them again to
the same or a greater amount? cannqt the same
apprehensions also be then revived with respect
to the Indians, and will not the argnntents tben
be as strong as tbey are now. for renewing the
same Treaty, or making any otner equal tacrifioe
that her purposes may dictate 1
2. It was asked, what would be the consequence
of refusing to carry the Treaty into effect? He
answered, that the only supposabte consequence
WHS, that the Executive, if goremed by the pru-
dence and patriotism, whicn he did not doubt
would govern that department, would, of course,
pursue the measures most likely to obtain a re>
consideration and remodification of the offenaire
parts of the Treaty. The idea of war, as ■ con-
sequence of refusing to ^ve effect to the Treaty,
was too visionary and incredible to be admiitea
.dbyGoogle
9Sff-
TQSTORY OF (i!0N(9}IKSS*
^BrUiA TYeatt.
[AnlI^ 1796.
■ right to judge of tbeir o
gire no eauie, nor pretest, nor provocation, for
mr or for aay juit rMeittajenl. But apart from
this, was Lt cooceirable ibat Great BriiaiD, with
all the daogera and emba^rasGtneata which are
tiiiekeuing upon her, would wantonly make war
, on a country which was ibe best market she had
in the worid for her manufactures, which paid
her an annual balaace in «pecie of ten or twelve
millioos. of dollaj-i, and whose «upplies were
moreorer essential to an important part of her
dorninioni? Such a degree of infatuation ought
not to be ascribed to ajtj nation. And at the pre-
nnt crisit, for teasom well koowii, an unprovoked
war with Oreat Britain, on thit country, would
argue ■ degree of madness greater than under an v
other circumstance* that oould well be imagiaeil.
With all the objeoiiaas therefore to the Trvuiy
which he bad alated, he hoped that it would doI
now be carried ia to e%cl ; and that an opportunity
would lake place for recoOBidering the subject on
principles more just, and more favorable to the
United States.
When Mr. Madisom had concluded,
Hr. 8. Ltmuc ra«e.— I do not rite, Haid Mr.L..
with an intention to go into a detail upon this
Biibject,or to exhibit a comparative view of the ad-
Tftoiages and disadvantages which may attend
the opeiation of this Treaty, but only to make a
few remarks, which may be eooridered as pre-
paratory to a more minute diaouwiou.
I verily believe the great body of the people in
HaMachuseits, who tiave paid any airteation to
this Treaty, are pretty well talisfied with it. This
aaiiafaclion arises, not altogether from a thorough
knowledge of the constituent parU of the Treaty,
and of iu probable consequences, but from a full
cOD&dencs m the integrity and discernment of the
supreme Executive and of the Senate, who^ on
tkoaeoccssions,fKlas bisadvisorycouncil. This
eonfidnce and satisfaction is daily incteaied and
eoofirmed by the known opinions of the commer-
cial part of the citizens of the United &taies, who
arc more inunediaiely interested in the operations
of this Treaty.
Althou^lf I believe a discussion of this Treaty
ia not strictly in order, because it does not come
before u* immediately as a subject of debate and
legislation, but as a piece of ioformmtion trota the
Executive, yet I have no doubt but that a tho-
rough discussion of its priocipleB may produce a
happy effect ; for I believe the more it is under-
■tttod, the less various will be our sentiments, the
greater the degree of unanimity am oo^ ourselves, so
naacb the greater will be the unanimity among
oar constituents. This unanimity is an object of
th< greatest nugnitude, not only as the source of
natioaal ratpectatality and honor, biu aa the only
trtw aoutce of natioiwl happiness and pruiperity ;
it ia therefore the indispensable dnty of Cioven)-
mtnt to maiDlaJn internal jKBce and tranquility,
and upon this ground alone it is I am willing the
Ttcatv should be thoroughly disenved. I am
aenaihln thla Treaty pteaButa itself witk aa nn-
favoiable aspect, and wbM is the raaaon 1 1* it
not beoause we bare entertained too exalted ideas
of our own national importance 7 A generous and
noble pride we ought U> entertain as a nation, and
without this pride we should be guilty of ingrati-
tude to Heaven, for Frovideuce has placed within
□er reach all ihe resources of national strength
and greatness, but we are yet among the nation*
in a state of minority — a minor must solicit favors,
be cannot challenge tbtm. Did we go to the
Emperor of Morocco, or to the Dey <^ Algiers,
and chslleDge a passage for our ship* up the Hedi-
terranten ? Noj but we solicited, and pay dear
for that passage; or did we go to the King of
Spain, and demand a free navigation of the Mift-
sissipni? No} but we n^rotiated, and success iias
attended that negotiation; oi could we bavegonr
to the King of England, and challenged a partici-
pation with his subjects in the commerce of tbe
East and West Indies? Certainly we could not.
What then should we have done 7 Would it have
been best to have traded with them upon anf-
ferance, and so to have ojaintained a precarious
kind of commerce? Certainly this would noi have
done, for in that case we should hare been eoa-
starUly dependant upon the caprice of a capriciow
Court ; this would be exliemety mortifying in-
deed. Commerce, like all other kind of business
ou^bt to be carried cm upon generous and open
principles, oihrawise we eatabliah a system of de-
ceit that would be lavorable to pirate* and &ee-
boolers.
Under thuse circumstances what could wc have
done 1 We could not have carved for ourselves,
for our strength and greatness were not sufficient;
we therefore had to go with the modesty of a
minor, and to solicit ; and what was the natural
consequences of tliis solicitation 1 Why, at the
first interview with the British Minister, he de-
termmed to exact of us at least a c(nn)dete fulfil'
ment of alt thai a former Treaty required ; nod
what was that? It was a payment of our bona
fide debts ; what could we do 1 He produced onr
contract, and we said nothing ; moral reotiinde
required a ful&hnent of this; it was in vain to
say, you hare interrupted our commerce, yoo have
csrried off our negroes, you have retained the
Western posts, and thereby occasioned an eipen-
sive and oloody war with the Indiana. Some of
this language, perhaps, would have bad weight
with the British Minister, if he had been aeui^
in his private (Opacity, but he felt and acted like
the Minister of a great and powerful nation; inte-
rest and glory are their otgect!', and moral con-
siderations are too apt to vani^ before theac. It
is true, by the Law of Nature, commerce oitglit
to be free and uninterrupted, but by the Law of
Nations it is otherwise; and what nation ahail
gainsay this law? We certainly cannot, our
strength and greatnesa are not yet fully ripe, and
if they were we ihould, in practice, den; this
Lawof Nature, and sboiild ratify and eonfirm this
Law of Nations. Thus, Mr. Chairman, we aee
that interest and ibrce govern among the Qation&
I have made tkeae pmiminary ouervaiiooa in
order that we might coDtamplalfl the TnKty upon
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OF CONOREQSi
q*»
Ap*l^ 1796.]'
Sxeeutiou of British Treaij/.
[H-ofR.
its troe ground, for ■ wsnl of reciprocily ha* been
a heavy charge brought againnt it.
1 h&re read ihJsTroaty wiihcaie and attention.
aud 1 am free lo own thai upon ibe first peiusal
of it I had a prejudice against it ; it appeared to
me that some of ils slipulatious were too favor-
able for Britain, and too disadTaotageaus to our-
wlvei; but we certainly had an abfe negotiator,
and I verily believe he did his utmost to serve his
country ; the more I have attended to the subject
the more I am reconciled to it. I find the gea-
tlemeo who are interested in commerce are al-
most universally satisfied with the commercial
regulations ; but there is a more weighty charge
bruught againit it than of a want of reciprocity ;
it is even said by some to be unconsiitutioaal.
This is a heavy charge indeed, and if it is well
founded we ought lo prevent its operation, for we
are seat here as the guardians of the rights of oui
fellow- citizens, and for that purpose are sworn to
support their Constitution; if it is uncoustitu-
tional, it is a nullity; it is not binding upon the
nation ; we ought to reject it; but if it is Consti-
tutional, And not extremely pernicious, it becomes
the supreme law of the laud, and we are in thai
use bound to obey it.
I have no doubt of its constitutionBlily, oot-
withstaading &11 the arguments which t have
cither aeeu or heard. Many ar^menis might he
adduced in support of this opinion, but I will dis<
pense with all out one. and that I consider as con-
clusive; and that is this, the supulaLious iu this
Treaty are nearly all of a such a nature as not to
respect objects of legislation ; they respect objects
which lay beyond the bounds of our eovereigoly,
and beyond these limits our laws cannot extend
as rules to regulate the conduct of subjects of
foreign Powers, and although some of these stipu-
lations respect objects which are wilhiu the reach
of our sovereignty, yet it is in such raauuer as to
he not only pertinent, but perhaps absnlutely ne-
cessary in torming the Treaty.
This conclusion I think is the natural and ne-
cessary result of a fair construction of the princi-
ples of the Constitution, and especially of that
paragraph which vests the power of makins Trea-
tie^ ID the supreme Executive with the advice of
the Senate. It is true, Mr. Chairman, we have
a diversity of opinions on this subject, but what
ought to be our conduct on this occasion? Ought
we not to manifest a spirit of candor and mutual
forbearnnce 1 Patty spirit and animoEity are not
only inconsistent with the dignity of this Honee,
but they are dishonorable to our naiion ; it is tTU«
> little seal will naturally arise where there is a
serioHS conflict of seatiDients and opinions ; we all
ftel it; the advocates for and against the Treaty
areall, in some degree, under its inSueoce. Zeal
or enthusiasm is as contagious as the small-pox,
or anjr other cutaneoas disease ; ii therefore be-
hoove* a* that onrzealbeaccordingto knowledge,
otherwise we may propagate a malisnanl and
mortal kind, which shall become epidemic, and
rage beyond die walls of the House ; therefore, I
say, what ought to be our conduct on this occa-
sion? and In what does consist sound aitd ui>
lightened policy? What would be the conse-
quence if a majority of this Hou^e should mani-
fest a disposition not to carry the Treaty into
eSect7 The consequence would be, we should
lose all the benefits secured lo us by ii, and there
are some pretty important ones. Brilaia would
undoubledly retain the Western posts— she would
consider them as a good collateral security ; and
they are. iu fact, like the Temple of Janus, the
power that possesFes them may either open or
shut the gales of war — be at peace or at war with
the Indians. Does good policy consist in severs
animadversion upon this Treaty t Does it coaaist
in loud and vociferous debate, calculaled to in-
flame public resentiuent, and to excite the fearful
apprehensions of our fellow-citizens 7 or, does it
consist in the reverse of all thisi Certainly I
think it does, for is there any substantial ground
of alarm? Has the Presioent of the Unitcd
States, after twenty years of patriotism, become
u traitor 7 or, has a majority of our Senate bees
corrupted with British gold?
If these are facts, then I confess our fairest
hopes are extioguished) if these are facts, then
sound the alarm, not only upon the seacoasi, but
rinsthe tocsin, and let it t>e heard from SuMary'a
to Detroii, and then whole hosts of armed men
will arise and avenge the cause of our country ;.
but thank God there is no occasion for all thia,.
only let us dissipate the storm, and restore public
tranquility ; this is our duly, and this duty is en-
forced and commanded by every sentiment of a
mora!, of a religious, or ofa political nature.
When Mr. Lvuam had taken his seat,
Mr. SwANwicK addressed the Chair :— One wf
the most characteristic and strong points of differ-
ence that exists between republican and despotic
forms of Government, said Mr. S., consists in
their greater or lesser degree of haste in making
or adopting laws. Wliere the will of a despot is
the only law, his simple volition is sufGcienl to
call for the prompt obedience of the subject ; but
in our happy Government, the numerous checks
and balances it prescribes every where oppose
themselves to haste, to error, or inadvertency, in
the formation of laws. In acts of the smallest im-
portance, we see daily that after they have under-
fone every passible chance of fait and impartial
iscuf!>ioa in this House, they are transmitted to
another, who equally proceed to revise, correct,
and amend them; and even this not being deemed
sufficient to secure, as it were, against all possi-
bility of daoger, they are sent to ibe Pbebideht,
who has ten days to consider, and who may ra-
luru them with his objections. These we are.
bound respectfully lo inscribe on our Journals ;
and if we disagree in opinion with the Pbesi'
DENT, the majority of two third> of both branchea
is requisite to give validity to the law. Do not
we discover In all this infinite caution, and a wish
rather not to act at all, by the difference of the
branches among each other, than to act impru-
dently or precipilantly ; and can we imagine that
a Constitution thus guarded with respect to laws
of little consequence, hath left without a check
the immei^e power of making Treaties, embrac-
ed byGoOglc
fflSTORT OF CONGKESS.
993
"■R-3
EMCuHm <^ Britith Treatg.
ing, ai in the iDstniment before ua, ill our pal-
est interests, whether thef mar "^ "^ tetritorr.
of Bgricultarej commerce, Davigation, or maon-
ftctare. and this for an indeSnite tenstti of timel
No. By one of the guarda of that Conslitution
relatire to appropriations of moaey, this Treatjr
hath, in the ust stage of its progress, come before
US ; we have resolved accorainK to our best judg-
ment of the Congtiiulioa, and, as we have seen
abore, aucordiug to the meaniDe and spirit of it,
that we hare a right to judge of the eipedienc?
or JnexpedieDcy of cartyiog it into effect. This
will depend on its meriu ; and this is the discus-
aion now before us. II, in the event we shall be
fotind to difiitr in opinion with the other branchi
as to this subject, it will involve no more an
moeitf or crimination against them than if w _
differed as to an ordinary taw. To what purpose
dien to soond the alarm, and to ring the tocsin
from Qeorffia to Mew Hampshire t Do we ii
peach the Executive? Do we charge bribery
corruption 7 No, sir.
We venerate, as much as any body else, the
mll^t hero who fills with so much dignity the
Chair of State. We respect the Senators, as hav-
ing acted according to the best of their judg-
ments. The question is. not what they have
done, but what we are to do. Our duty requires of
ns, before we vole S9O,O0O of the people's money-
Uie !ium required to carry the Treaty into effect-
to pause, and inquire as to the why and where-
fore? But is it merely the sum of 990.000, that is
in question 7 If it was, we ought to proceed slow-
ly and cautiously to vote awiy the money of our
constituents ( but it is in truth a sum indefinite,
for British debts, the amount of which we know
not ; and we ate to grant this ia the moment our
Treasury i> empty, when we are called upon to
pay five millions to the Bank, and when no |
tieman hath resources to suggest but those of _ _ _
rowing, at a time when borrowing is unusually
difficult and expensive. But is it merely a ques-
tion of money 1 No. It is the reeulation of our
commerce; the ai^nstment of onrlimits; there-
atraint, in many reapectSj of our own faculties of
obt8ininggood,ororavoiding bad, terms with other
nations. In short, il is all our greatest and most
interesting concerns that are more or less involv-
ed in this question. I am aware the task is ardu-
ons, especially for those who are in the opposition
to the Treaty, because they have to place their
opinions in eontradiction lo tnose of many wise and
Tirtuousand dignified men amongst us; and this.at
all times an unpleasant task, becomes doubly pain-
ful when it is to be done in a moment when great
alarm Is excited very industriously in the public
mind. But a legislator, when he undertakes to
act at all, must dare to act firmly, when he acts
according to the best of his judgment for the good
of his country. The pRsainENT has been thus
applauded for his firmness. I hope this House,
where they conceive themselves right, will not
display less of it than the Executive. It must re-
ceive equal applause wherever there are dispas-
sionate and candid observers.
These preliminary remarfci I hare thought M-
-of the merits of the Treaty itself, which hath al-
ready been so ably considered by the gentleman
last up from Virginia, [Mr. Madison,] whose
mildness of manner and suavity of address were
certainly calculated to inspire any thing else than
the angry passions so giMlly deprecated by the
gentteman from Massachusetts. [Mr. 3. Ltvan.]
These, I hope, will he carefully avoided on atl
side?, and the debate be concluded with the same
good temper and moderation in which il is begun.
I must confess, Mr. Chairmau, that the first
point of view in which this Treaty strock me with
surprise was, the attitude Great Britain assumes
in It of dictating laws and usages of reception and
conduct difietent towards us, in every different
parcel of her empire, while the surface of oar
itry is entirely laid open to her in one gent
and advantageous point of admission. In Europe,
we are told we may freely enter her ports. In
the West Indies, we were to sail in canoes of se-
venty tons burden. In the East Indies we are
not to settle or reside wilhoat leave of the local
GoTernmeot. Id the seaports of Canada and
Nora Scotia, we are not to be admitted at all;
while all our rivers and countries are opened
without the least reserve ; yet surely our all was
as as dear to us as the all of any other nation, and
not to have been parted with but on equivalent
But let OS consider the articles distinctly : —
first, as to the Mississippi; Great Britain is ad-
mitted as freely to navigate on this river, and to
frequent the ports on its banks, as we are to go to
those on theThames; yet, it is strange to remark,
that, at the time we made the stipulation, we had
not ourselves obtained the right we gave. We
hare since obtained it by Treaty with Spain, and
on terms absolutely contradictory to those con-
tained in the British Treaty. The articles are at
follows, and the Committee are left to judge for
themselves. After they had jost voted for the Spa-
nish article, how can they, in good faith and con-
sistency, vote for the British article, so contradic-
tory to it 7
The Spanish article is tnis— Article 4 :
" It is likeniie agroed that the Western boDndsxyof
the United Statea, whkh Kpanitei them from the Spa-
ni«b colony of Jionisiana, ii in tha middle of the chan-
nd or bed of the river Missisnppi, fiom the Nvtbon)
boandaij of the Statu lo the complstion of the 31*t do-
pM of latitude north of the EqoBtoT. And His Catho-
lic MaJM^ has likewias agraisd that the navigition of
the laid river, in its whida breadA &oni its loiirM (o the
poean, shall be EtM »ni!yti>hisaul^M4sand the diJaena
of the United Stataa, nnleai he should aitend thia pri-
vilege to the anlyecta of other Powers bj apeckl con-
Britis'h Treaty— Article 3.
" The river Mtuianiipi sbaU, howevBT, acooiding to
the Treaty of Peaeo, be entirely open lo both putMa;
and it ia fiiither agresd, that all tha porta uaS (dacea in
its Eastern side, to whicbaoaver of tha partisi belong
ing, may freely be resorted to and uaed W both partiu,
in as aiDple a manaar ■■ any of the Atlaatic porta or
plaeea of the U>.lted States, or any of the porta or dacaa
of Bia Majea^ m Oiaat Britain.'*
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
APBI^ 1796.]
Exwulion of Briti$h Trtatf.
[H. opR.
The next of ibe permanent BTticles I shall no-
tice, is that vhicb reip«ciB British debts. It is
somewhat remarkable, thai the Comraissionen,
who are to judge of these, are permitted the power
of adjournment from place to place — a Terv favora-
ble atipulattou for the creditors, whilst the Com-
missioners on Spoliations, by Article 7, are to act
only in London, whereby the Ainericaa claimant
must pass with his papers or send them across
the Atlantic^ and engage lawyers in a country
where law is unusuE^y dear ; a circumstance
which will deter many from applving at all, and
occasion great loss to the United Slates. I ob-
serve^ too, that the awards of the CommtssionerE
of British debts are to be paid out of the Treasu-
ry as awarded br the Com miss I oners, I am sur-
prised not to Sna in the Report of the Secretary
of State, on appropriations to carry this Treaty
into efiecL some calculation as to the probable
amount of these debts, or some prurisioD for lodg-
which they were going; but, at present, they can
form no judf^ueot on tbe subject of the money
wanted, or of the funds from whence that money
Much hath been said about the tenth article,
relatire to the sequeslratioD of debts. To be
against the adoption of this article, hath been sup-
pofeA to imply en unwillingness to pay debts law^
fully contracted, and Tcry copious abuse hath
been thrown on the largest and most populous
State in this Uatoo, as having for motive of its
opposition, this principle. To say nothing of the
degrading nature of such an admission, with re-
spect 10 the honor of our own country, which
ought always lo induce us to think the most {a-
vorable of it, is it true ? Is it true, that an unwil-
lingness to pay debts hath been the principal cause
of opposition to this Treaty ? Among the names
opposed lo it, are to be found some as respectable
for indapeodcJice and fortune as any on the Con-
tinent. To instance only one of a number. I may
cite tbe celebrated Pennsylvania farmer, John
Dickenson, Esq., one of the richest men in these
parts of the country, attached lo no party, living
in great retirement, with a name honorable for the
most virtuous efforts in the American Revolation.
Can it be supposed that such a character as this
is influenced by such a motive? Surely not.
Whence arises, then, the opposition ? It arises
from a conviction that the admission of lliis arti-
cle is degrading to the national character. Dut-
iog a late session of ConKress an honorable mem-
ber from New Jersey, [Mr. Dayton, the present
Speaker] fired by a laudable indignation at the
robberies committed oa our commerce by tbe Bri-
tish, moved for a provisional sequestration of their
property. No sooner was this done, than we saw
a report from the Secretary of the Treasury, dated
the 16ih of January, 1795, recommending the
United States lo pass a permanent law against
sequesttalioD of properly m the funds. Congress
not having acted on this part of the report, though
ihey adopted other pvls, we now see the clause
aitemplea to be brought into a law by way of a
Treaty. And it is more singular, as, at tbe very
time tne article was agreed to in England, all the
European nations were actually sequestering tha
property of each other. What security bad we,
then, that in any future time Great Britain wouM
respect, in regard to us, what she did not in r^
gard to France or Holland 1 Besides, is it not ob-
serrable that, as we have no fleets, we have con-
tinually SB immense property afloat, subject at
any time to be laid hold of liy Great Britain 1
And are we so superfluously strong that we ought,
by compact, to relinqniih thb aafeguard, thia guar-
antee which we hold in our own hands 1 Iliave
often heard the Chinese policy, as to maritime
affairs, recommended, but 1 have never heard
much said of another part of their pi^icy. The
British Bast India Compauyj in a late discussion
that took place with, the British Goveroment, as
to a renewal uf their charter, observe as a reason
why no British sul^ect ought to be permitted to
Kto ChittabutlhoBeuDdersurelies tor their food
haviot to the Company; that, in case of fail-
ure in this, the Chinese hold all tncir property in
the country as hostage. Tbe expressions are these :
" Ths fiur of panighmant euleitsined by the Huida-
rinei upon iome aocaaioni ia (icesdve ; and, indeed,
the Court of Pekin are dinnwid to think there can be
no broil or disturbance without die &alt of the Manda-
rine or officer, who is ■ometimea doomed to baniihment
or death for very trivial causes. Upon the slighleet oc-
casion the European eommerre ia etopped, >e the Man-
darini^e well know that this is the only means by which
they can command obedience from Bnropeans.
" In the year 1784, by the accideBtal diacharge of a
^n on board of Che Lady Hughes, country ship, a
Chinese was killnd. Every European was deemed re-
■ponaible for thi* accident ; nil trade was stopped, and
the fiireisR CKldriea settled at Canton, vnitinf with the
Engliab, tbaught it naeewaij to piepate for defence.
Tb» gajoia, who bad ooncealed himself, was at last
Ibund, and deliveted up, under some indinec aanmnoaa
of peraonal eafety, notwithstanding which be wta im-
mediately put to death. It is ]m>b^le that Che auper-
cargoea and the gunnen ware deceived under the ex-
pectation of being aUe to commute hie puniahment ibr
a sum of money, but a difiprent conduct may prevail
hereafter. The Chinese Government is not only abso-
lute in the extreme, but inSsiible. It may, tfaeiefbn,
be proper to take a view of the conieqaencei to be ap-
prehended from a atoppage of Uie wautry's trade, to
which they are liable, from the nippoiod guilt or the
misadTenture of atjy Britiah gnbject, and from which
the Company have already sustained very macerial in-
jury. Your committee, however, in eipreaeing Ihar ap-
preheni^ni, do not allude to the crews of ahipa em-
ployed in the Company's sravioe, whose owners an ra-
spectatale and responaihle, and whose ofiicera have so
much knowledge and etpeiience, that no fean can eiist
with respect to their conduct
" If any injury shall be done to the nativei, the Com-
pany on easily support the efpenae, and command
obedience from their servant*, but the case is totally
different with regard to inddviduala.
" It will be to topreaent the consequences of such a
miafbrtune in a very limited degree, if the amount of
property at the mercy of the Chinese, for a single season,
la stated. As^at is so large, it may be deemed on-
necBBsary to eileod the inquiry much Airther on this
;dbvGoogle
'995
Distort op c<wgbe!§s.
B. OF R.]
Eitctaion (^ Britith Trtaiy.
[April, 1796.
kMd, or it b wmaati the sMliuie ndgfat b« neMlj
dmbled.
*■ Tkc baltSM oflhe CMnpuiy'i oah at Ik*
and sf Ibe mmou hu axracded £(M>0,OM
-BapiMnoDlT .... £400^000
' Tlw duaptafm immumt, alUioatli H
lUT bar* bean uaeli ki|«r, may ba ■■-
tnaladat .... I,M0,0M
^Thm Compuy'i di^ from Bump*, at
tMrt ..... 400,000
" Eidiui A attavnirj M:fu, and coiiMqiuiioM iiludi
yoar csmmittM conceiTa tt i* nnneceMiy to detail.
" Widi andi an lmww»a |uupwtT tt Make, it may be
mmIt imaginad that tbe apptabmutona of tke Compa-
«7, with lafard to tha CWna cmMnoco, ia oxtrema ;
" ■ * d by private
Do wfe stand leu in nee^ th«Q thf Cbioeae orcau-
tionnrf lioala^? Or can it be supposed thai Bri-
uin will the less tmde with as than with the Chi-
BCse, under these eonditions? Thia tenth article,
it ma); be added, is not to be found in onr Trea-
ties with any other nation; and yet it may be
asked, do we not mean to act equally honorable
with all 7 After all, it may be well qaesltoned,
why this tenth article 7 Asa restraint npon this
Garernment, it was impolitic, injurious, and un-
necessary. There was no reci^rucity in it, ok we
had tittle or no property ia Britain to reckon on
as a counter Tailing security. It looks, indeed,
like a pointed reflection on ikoae who acted io
the Congress of 1794, on the sequestration busi-
oeas; and, iasotauch, it was unkind, and I think
uncandid; and as thisatticle lakes Bwav the right
<^ ezeroiaingaBe of the power* held by allpeople for
tbeirown secoriiy, I cannot but think that we must
eOQOciTe it aa entirely inadmiraibte. But, it may
betaid iiiseEsenlialtoeredii. lam far from think-
iltg so. Credit depends on pr(^t, and on the neces-
■iiy (^employing eapiul. We shall be neither
more nor less trusted on account of the tenth ar-
ticle. We do not see it afleeis our trade with
other nations, or oar credit there, that have no
such articles with tbem. Other Dations hare not
required it of us. why then should Great Britain,
aniess, indeed, sne conceived it «s necessary to
aeoure her ia the safe depredations intended in
future to be still Doniiuued upon us 7
Al'ter having thus rsviewed the first ten or per-
manent article*. I think it must appear ohiious
that the rekuli ii, that we have ceded the right to
navigate theMisaissippioii terms different to those
on which we receiv^ it from Spain j that we
have consented to receive the Western posts on
lermt tbat afford too much danger of disturbances
by a mixed intercoarse of our people, British sub-
jects and Indians ; that we bare provided, cer-
tqiuty, for aa indeCiDite amount of British debt; ,
whilst our claim for spoliations is left to be de-
cided by Commissioners at London, who meet
trlihoui power of Bdjournment, and under very
■ _, iditujg Qf judging according to what
lei
may appear to theu (o be the Law of Nations, io
a country where tbat law has been twisted so at
always to serve as a pretext for spoliations against
us ; and we hare agreed never, in future, to con-
sent to sequetiratioDs or confiscations, in case, by
war or naticmal difference, our property afloat
should be confiscated or sequestered by Great Bri-
tain to any amounL Let any impartial miad,
' idge of the expediency, on our part, of rot-
:acy to so ruinous a contracL
_ come now to consider the remaining article*
of a more temporary nature. The ISth article
merits consideration, because, though not included
in the general arrangement as ratified, being only
suspended, its principles are not wholly abandon-
ed, but left, like a cloud, stiti to hang over us.
Thiii 12lh article was intended to regulate our in-
tercourse with the British West Indies, and cott-
templaied the singular provision tbat we should
only narigate tbitlier in vessels of serenty ton*
burden, whilM the British themselves might put
in the employ ressels of aoy size. How degrad-
ing such a stipulation, it is not difficult to con-
ceive! We supply these islands with what the
inhabitants have always acknowledged they could
get so well no where else, and yet our tonnage ii
to be thus restricted, while theirs is teA oiieii to em-
ploy vessels of any descriptioa. But tnis is not
all : for the sake of getting admission into a few
inconsiderable British ports in the West India,
we are to give up the carriage in our own ship-
ping of cotton, one of our own staple articles,
and of sugar, coffee, end indigo, the produce of
the French, Spanish, Danish, Swedish, or Dutch
islands. How strange a mistake as to thegeo-
Saphy of this Western Archipelago, in which
e carriage of the produce of St. Domingo alone
is worth more nearly than the entire admi?^ioa (O
all the other islands put toge[her! The principle
contained ia this liiih article, thus KUipended,
ought to have been utterly coniradicied or annul-
led. While existing even io its suspended form,
it will prerent my voting for this Treaty, of
whose caaias it i.i only an absent link. By its
absence, indeed, the trade of the British West In-
dies would have remained entirely shut to us, but
for the war and the need they stand in of us. 8o
we are left between the conditions of being shut
out all together, or of being admitted at a m-ice
that takes away the value t^the admission. Thii
ISth article contains two of the most fatal priuci-
plea that could ever be offered to America : the
first is an attempt to prohibit an anicle of her
own growth from being shipped in her own ves-
sels; the next is an admission that fbrei^ ships
may load in our port' what uur own ships may
not load. This is laying the axu at once to the
root of boih commerce and agriculture. Whata
strange stipulation is It also for Britain to make
with us, since it operates a benefic even to what
ahe calls her natnral eneroiea, the French, at out
expense ; for a French ship might load here what
our ships could col. Does not Ibis show her ot>>
ject is to ruin our navigation altogether? This
article was to last dariog*lhe war. and two years
afterwards; the very time when, accurdiog id all
.dbyGoogle
HKTOKT OP c(»rciaEsa
HfW
April, ITM.]
EjfoeutioK ef Brituh Treaty.
i[H.opR.
I mgar. coffee, Set.
iirotabititT, our tradb .» •-q— .
Bvrope would tmi out the most li
leonre; fbc, wfaoever is Bc^oamnx] trith the* his-
tory oC our oomtnerce for the few Imsi jeare, mnit
btow ibat in fact the riohett part of it hath ci»-
Msted in ihe freight and cammissions earned br
oar merchaais on the carriage of the sagar, c<h-
fte. cotton, and indigo, of the poanes«ion»of the
belligerent Powers. When they are at "war,
Vhich happens ev^rv ten years nearly, this mnM
be the caie ; and shall we resign so importaot an
article of adTaataffe for admission on equal terms
into the Brttish iJands'? I trust not; and, jnas-
mocb au the principle is still unsettled, and may
be renewed,! the more decidedly.give my opinion
to this Committee against it.
Bui we are told whaterer may be our &le in
the West, all our lossM are (o be balanced in the
Bast Indies; and we are canied from onr own
neighborhood, lo be sure, to a great distance, in
order to hare repaid all our sacrifices. Let us
examine this 13ih article respecting the East In-
dia traJc, and see if it does not bear a very strict
analoff]r to the West India article that has been
ezplMed.
We mre to be admitted, it is trae, in ressels of
any size, but not suSered to settle or reside with-
tnt-teare of the local Government — that is, of the
British East India Company. Of aH the despot-
isms in the world that of a mercantile monopo-
liiiog eomnany is the worst; yet into such hands
we are lo fall, and from them to solicit leare to
reside or travel in the country, What security
can there be for a commerce thus precariously
conducted, in which your rivals are your judge 1
Also, as a specimen of their seniimenU on this
subject, take the following, extracted from reports
before alluded to, of this very compaDy, when re-
lating lo pennittiiig their fellow-subjeeis of Ire-
land to go to this very same quarter of the globe :
"Tba Gnini« inlndiaisheU inddapandiaUoKellwr
Dpon opinion, which must be shskmi,if not ■niiihilated,
should tha natiTM perceiTe the subjects of the •■me
Bovereign, spesking the wme laoguage, independent lo
' *ii; reaped whaterer of the oateniible GoTemraenl of
the country. Such ■ ciicum>t>nce must at the same
time occasion disputes and quarrels between the £n-
gHsh and IiiA in India, which wiU produce a discon-
tent at home, and may prove tha cause of ftnther ill
a whKh thq' nay labor WMo'.
" It is yet too sari; to fannaJB^ment of what may
b* the floal reauh of lbs commwiicatiDn betwaan Ama-
lica, In^ and China; bat it >■ by no maaiu in a
flourishing sitDation at preaMiL Id consequence of the
number of dieir shipa at Canton, in ITBD, althongh
their tonnage was comparatively small, yet they broufht
a large sarplm stock for America. That suri^us stock
was esnt U> Oatend, HoUand, &&, but the qnali^ ori-
gmalfy inftrior.'wai pmbUily flutherdeiwednled by ila
oonveyanca ttmn China m ■ntll and hapioper ahiJM, so
Uiatit woald Bot sell for Sd. to Sd. per pooad. The
gieater part was, therefore, returned to Ameiioa, who
has since imported ooniidnBU; fimn Europe for h«
■■ his, dMTefacB, by no means dear that the artiele
of fKifbt will, B any point of visw, balitate the «x-
■aatatian of- iadWidMJa in a maiaiial degne. 8a
(ong as the raduive privilege and their: uUUbiI
rasonrcea shall Tamain.oaBkbined and aontiMtted to Am
Bn^Iiah company, competitMs or intectopwi mj find
their accoant lot a fcw shipa ; but when all Bmntpe
and America an coutendiag for the priie, one or two
ahipe more than wanted most ruin the whole ; and,
when loss uiaes upon an Indian advontnre, it is fts-
quantly more than ptWale capitals can support.
" It is the ungnlar and nnprsoadenlad good foitmw
of Great Britain that, in combining and raaliang the
territorial revenue through the mt^um of eommeroe,
aided by the reaoorcea, manabctnna, and immeuae in-
ternal traffic and consumption, she stands unrivalled
amidst suironodiug and contending nation*, and bids
defiance to all competition."
From this reasoning it is pretty plain what ei»-
couragement we may eipeci from the local Qor-
ernment, acting luder.lheoideraof the East India.
Company, who display such a. very amiable spirit
towards the Irish, because, for one reason^ they,
like OS, speak the same language with themselves.
It appears to me that, by combinaiioiu of this
13th article with the Ifith Great Britnin bath sti-
pulated for henelf and for the Bast India Com-
jMuy an admission for British India goods to our
country on terms equal, as to duly, in her ships
and onr own. Tha event of wbioh will certainly
be that she ivill have here ber India warehousea,
and will, by ber capital and resources, before long;
have thb trade entirely in her own hands, aiut
our right of admission will turn out lo be only »a
empty name.
The eoosnraplion of India goods being in'a
great degree out of the question in Eugland, the
Company, who hare an annual revenue of a mil-
lion and a half sterling to receive from their po>-
neMioos in India, have hitherto sold them at ven-
due io Leadenhall street; and I believe, consider-
ing the credit our merchants usually obiaioed la
London on those goods, and the low price the
Company sold ibem at, they could afford to sup-
ply us cheaper in England than we could get
them from India in time of peace. I find ttie
East India Company themselves stite, in 17S8,
that seventeen -twentieths of the calicoes imnort-
ed by them were exported, and twelrc-twentietha
of the muslins also ei ported, thereby realizing, as
they term ii, the tribute which India payv to
Great Britain through the medium of itseommerce.
Id 179? the Conijnny state the internal coasump-
tioD of India calicoes and muslins to be reduced
in Britain lo almost nothing. They add, every
shop offers Hriiish muslins for sale, equal in ap-
pearance, and of more elegant palteios than [hose
of India, far one-fourCh, or [wrhaps more than
one-third lev in price. They my nine-tenths of
all muslins and calicoes are sold for exportation
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
lOOO
H.op.a.]
Exeeuiitm (^ BritM Trtaty.
[Apmi^ITSB.
The profits on tkeit imporU they ttale u foUows,
for a KippMed vear :
SuppoM CMC of piece foodi in India, £1,126,300
Frekbt ... - 209,270
Dnlies .... 600,670
Cba^ of tale 6 p«t cent. - - 138,894
Total cost £3,075,434, sold foi £2,314,900
YieldioK about 30 per cent, profit on tbe first
wwt in Inoia. But mar it not be asked, whether
wccan expect to ataad the competition on terms
of equal tonna^. equal duties with the E!as't In-
dia Company, who thus make their remittance,
whenit isconslderedrhatfre must send silver out
to purchase, and be often long kept out of out ca-
SilaL in a country where such numerous and pro-
table occasions to employ capital present ihem'
•elves, and must trade in India watched every
atep by'agenis of a Company who will be com-
petitors in purchases with us? I can readily cod-
ceire at present the East India trade may resem-
ble all others by greater profits, owing to ihe war
in Europe; but, from one attempt that passed un-
der my own eyes, in 1790, as to the East India
trade,! had no reason to form high noiioos of it.
When the war'ends and trade is reduced to its
natural level, we should perhaps find ourselves
greatly mialaken as to the value of this article
coopT&d with its restrictions, one of which leaves
it very doubtful whether India goods may be re-
exported from the United States On the whole,
the article to me appears to stand thus: We ate
admitted to their ports in India, but then the ton-
nage we are to pay there is to be measured by
the tonnage on British vessels psiid here. Our
vessels are also to be restricted not to carry any
of the articles exported by us out of India to any
port or place except to America; and this they
nave a .right to enforce in any way they may
think necessary. We are not to settle or reside
but with the leave of a Qovernment who are mer-
chants, or employed by merchants, and our rivab.
Can it be imagined that, under such disadvanta-
ges, this trade can be profitable to us in the se-
quel? What articles do we export to India?
What danger may there not be of our trade with
parts of India not belonging to Britain being in-
terrupted by their men-of-war, under pretence of
our carrying India goods to ports contrary to
Treaty ? One of the Indiamen nai been already
taken into Martinique, on what principle, or
whether according to Treaty, we have not yet
heard. Of one thing we may be sure, we shall
find in the India Company rivals, jealous and sus-
picious, and in their men-of-war ample disposi-
tions to enforce the I3th or any other article of
the Trealy against us.
T>)e 14th article stipulates an equally free trade
between this country and the British possessions
in Europe, aud provides for each party hiring aud
possessing warehouses, Slc.
The iSih article is one of the most objection-
able of the whole Treaty, because it funda-
mentally contradicts all Ihe provisions heretofore
made by our Government for the encouragement
and protection of the navigation of this cotutry.
By it it is settled that, ao far as respects as, bo
tonnage daties shall be Ud on British veaseU but
what shall be laid on those of all other nations;
no duties on British articles but what shall be laid
on those of every other nation; no embargo to
affect Britain but what a&ctt all other natioas
alike ; Americvi bottoms are left exposed to be
charged, in the European British ports, tonnigt
duties equal to those laid on British bottoms here;
countervailing duties may be laid in England to
equalize the difference of duties on European or
Asiatic goods imported here in British or Ameri-
can vessels ; and no additional difference in toK-
uage or duties of this kind is to be made hereafter.
These principles deserve to be separately ex-
amined. They virtually repeal all the laws here-
tofore made as to navigation aiid impost, hj indi-
rectly eq'ulizing the tonnage and duties on the
British and American vesseb; and they restrain,
in future the powers of CiHigress on some of the
most important regulations of foreign ctHnmerce
that conld come before them.
The difference now existing by law on good*
imported in foreign or American vessels, is 10 per
cent, on the amount of duties paid ; the tannage
difference is 44 cents higher per ton every voy-
age on a fora^n than on an American vessel.
These the British <}overnmenl may now conn-
tervail; thejr may. in fact, charge on our ships
coming from London here, and on their cargoes,
duties that shall equal in amount the difference
paid on goods imported from Europe or Asia in
loreign bottoms. And here a curious circum-
stance occurs : Great Britain stipulates a right to
countervail in Europe the differences of dnlies
paid on imparling goods trom Asia. Why were
duties on Asiatic goods to be countervailed in
Europe ? Why is a luerchaat, no way concerned
in the East InJia trade, to pay a difference on du-
ties from thence on his ships in Europe 7 Hath
any body calculated the amount of tliis, or tbe
discouraging effect it must have on the great in-
terests of our navigation employed in Europe?
But the hands of Cc ._....!.
ir addi
Congt
t ion a 1 tonnage or
'iffereoce
be tied u
Briii '
goods imported in their vessels or ours ; and to
make nu discrimination in duties, or embargoes,
or prohibitions, between British vessels and uioie
of any other nation. May it not well be asked,
why all this?
' Suppose France were to offer us free admissioB
into HispauiolB, and to carry the rich produce of
that i.sland, provided we admitted French manu-
factures on lower terms than Britiah, could we
accept it under Ihe Treaty, and why should we
have restrained oar power of embracing sucb itn
offer?
It appears to me this article is wholly inadntis-
sible, stipulating sacrifices on our part, without
equivalent, without reciprocity.
The 17th Hriicic admits Britain to take French
goods outoi our vessels, while our Trealy with
France forbids the French to take British goods
out of our ships. Our vessels, therefore, become
safe sanctuaries for the property of one nation
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
April, 17«.]
Ejxcutim of BritiA Treaty.
[H.OFR.
■ad aosafe to the other. We comeDt to uke in
Fr«Dcfa goods OD freight, we consent to their be-'
log taken out and made prize of, so as there be
no delay io our beiDg iodernaiGed. Can any Thiog
be harder or more disgraceful than [his article!
made, too, at a lime irben France is at war, and
«e are enjoriDg so lacraitve a trade with her pos-
sessions. How fatal mmt be - the Hdmis.siou of
this principle to any future state of neutralilf of
this country I Brery American Vessel, coming
from French or Dutch ports, may, on ibis princi-
ple, ba captured or detained on suspicion, in a
manner that every day prores ruinoUs to our
commerce and veJatiMu to our merchants, who
see their vessels taken by a. fleet stationed on our
coast on purpose, almost in tbeir sight.
Arlicle ISth relates to the contraband articles,
and is as exoeptionafak as any, becanse, afibrding
the British a pretext for sioppmg, as they do daily^
our provisioa cargoes, and thus intercepting the
rezutar operations of oor commerce. It is, be-
silea, contradictory to our other Treaties ; for it
declares, in time of war, articles 10 be contraband
that our other Treaties cay shall not be contraband.
Suppose Spain and Portugal to-be at war^ow
coald we see performed, in justice (o each Pow-
er, the foUotringcoctradictory articles:
BBiTiBffTHBATV.— Article IStfa. "Inorderto
regulale what is in fulure to he deemed contra-
band of war. it is agreed, that under the said de-.
Domination shall be comprised limber for ship-
building, lar or rosin, copper in sheets, sails, hemps
and cordage, and generally whatever may serve
directly to the equipment of veiisels, unwrought
iron and firplank only excepted."
SpAitiSH TBBATy. — Arlicle 16lh. "
" Furthermore,
all kinds of cotton, hemp, flai, tar, pilch, ropes,
cable.i, sails, sail-clotb, anchors, and any [nrts of
anchors, also ships-raasts, planks and wood of alt
kind, aud all other things proper for either build-
ing or repairing ships, and air other goods what-
ever which have not been worked into the form
of any instrument prepared for war by land or
sea. shall not be reputed eonlmbandJ'
The 19ib article slipolales for the securiiy-oi
onr people front the men-of-war or privateers of
Britain ; bat the numerons documents of impress-
ments of Araeriaan Dalives, that are on the files
of the House, sufficiently prove the little regard
paid to these stipulaiions, if they were meant, as
was Bunposed by an honorable member from
South Carolinn, [Mr. Habper] to relate to ikera.
Od a review, then, of the commercial articles,
they may be summed upas follows; Weal India
trade left blnnk by the suspeasiun of tbe ISth ar-
licle. Bast India trade subjected to a condition of
residence, rendering it precarious, and restricted
lo a laodinz of the goods exported in the United
Slates, not Known to ha veever been imposed in any
way similar, on any other nation trading to Ben-
gal, while all nations are conKiantly allowed an
e<(ual liberty of trading there with ourselves.
European and both theiieirndes liable to ao equali-
zation of tonnage and duties, that cannot h'jl
operate iinftivurably to llie American navigation.
Should tbe eoontervailing duties take place in
4tli Con.— 33
the British ports in Europe on American veMels,
they will probably be shut out of them altogether.
In time of foreign war, our ships deprived of the
neutral rights of carrying allowed them by Trea-
ty with France and Spain, and exposed to be cap-
tured and detained on suspicion, as now' daily
happens. Naval stores exposed to confiscation bj
England, when shipped at a time when she is
at war, to tbe ports of her enemies.
In, all these instances our navigation is materi-
ally endangered and exposed, without any equiva-
lent advantages. May it not now well be asked,
Whence it comes that this interest of navigation
hath become less an object of care to us than at
the time we passed tbe laws of duty aiid impost
on foreign ships and goods imported into themi
I slated the other day my ideas of the immense
importance of navigation. Mr. Burke gave the
following opinion of a branch of it in 1T75 :
"As to the wealth which tbe Col<Hiies have^dcawu
fnva the hb hj their fidieriea, yaa bad all that matter
full; opaned at yoai bar. Yon nrelj ihoogbt those
acquisitions of value, tbi they saenjed even, lo excila
your envy ; and yet the spirit with which that entar-
prino^ Hmplojment bm been eurciced, onght rather,
ID my opinion^ lo have raised your esteem and admiia-
tion. And pray, aii, what in tha world is equal to it t
Pass b; the other parts and look at the manner in
nhich Ihe people of New England have ef late car-
ried on the whale fishery. Whilst ne folloi* them
among the tumbling meuhtaiiis of ice, and behold
them penetrating into tbe deepest fimen receaeee of
Hudaon'* Bay and Davis's Straits, whilst we are look-
ing for (hem beneath Ihe Arctic Cirde, we hear that
thej havB pierced into tbe opposite region of Polar
cold, that th^ are at the antipodes, and engaged under
tha fonen Swpent of South Falkland Island, whidi,
seeming too remota and romantic an object tbithegiaq^
or natioiul smbkion, is but a stago and resting place
in the pregreaa of th^ vietonans indnstry. Nor is the
equinoctial beat mora diacouraging to them tban tbe
(jjciUDulated winter of both. Ihe polea. We know that
whilst some of them draw Ihe line and stiike the hai-
poon on the coast of Afiica, others ran the longitude,
and panne their gigantic game along Ihe coeit of Bra-
zil, No sea but what b vexed by their fisheries, no
climate that is not witnea* to their toils. Neither the
perseverance of Holland, nor tbe adiv)^ of France,
nor the deitrous and firm sagad^ of English enM-
prise, ever eairied this most penloua mode of hardy in-
dustry to the extent to which it has been pushed by '
tfaia recent people — a people who are still, a* it were,
but in the gristle, and not jet hardened into the bone .
of msiibaod. When I oontemplale thoH things, when
I know that the Cokmiee in general otve little or no-
thing to any care of OUTS, and that they are notequeeaed
into this happy form b; the coostrainta of watchM
and auspicious Governments, but that through a wise
and salutary neglect a generous nature has been suder-
ed to take her own waj to perfection — when 1 reflect
upon these cOectSi when I see how profitable they havg
been to us, I leet aH the ^ride of power sink, and all
presumption in the wiadom of tinman contrirance melt
and dip away within me."
Since then our nari^tion has had the growth
of a man arrived ai lull age, (twenty-one,) nn<t
hecooiE extended to an immense size ; yet was it
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF C0N6R|»e.
H..OFR.]
Eaxentiim of BritU^ Treatf/.
•0 nnprutected tlwC, in tfaia jesT,tbe UoitedButet
iraDtiQs to remii out of some ckrgoes of tagu
and coDee shipped on private account, money to
pey the intereat at ibeir debts in HoJlaild, they
were undei the necessity of asVin^ pasiporti for
these cargoes of tbe Fieach and British Ministers.
to let this property pass in safety over the Atlan-
tic; aad 1 bare seen it boasted in someof our pa-
pers, that orders were issued by the British Uo-
Ternmeni to their Port Admiruls to respect these
passports thus given by their Minister or agent
here ; w> tbe United Slates leA their own mer-
chants to carry their sugar and coffee as they
might, but obtaioed passes for ships, in the pro-
ceeds of whose sales they were interested. What
a iitrntige, circumstance, this ! The American Oo-
veromeDt sailing secure nnder passes— the private
merchant exposed I
But it is asked, if this Treaty be m nnftvorable
to commerce, why are the merchants so much in
fiforofit?
Tbey ei^n the reason themselvea. They are
iBfluenced Djr the prsMot rather than futnie in-
tereal*. Fire millions of spdiatioiM they locft to
the Treaty to repay ; their property afloat, th«y
fear to be taken, and war they dread ; but is there
leaily weight in these arnuments? lama^large-
Vf iaterested as any in£vldual among them in
shipping, and have snflered tbe loss of one of my
cargoes at Bermuda, for which my underwriters
have made me only a partial allowance; but 1
neither dread any war on tbe part of England
■ituated as she now is, nor ezpeot any payment of
ray loss from the Treaty. To a nation to whom she
cmenbouDties to carry ber provisions, and who is
BO ezoeileni a austomei for bar mannfacinres, she
will not be easily induced to offer hostilities chat
■hall go to the extent of war ; and the Commis-
sioner* on Spoliatioas are lo art in London n
ly as arbiliators of the Law of Nations, ou whom
OUT claim of spoliatione it at best but a very un-
certain dependence. Tbe merchants \a sundry
parts of the United States having thought it so,
paTe claimed the interference of Congress in ad-
vancing them the money, they rather doubted
getting anywhere else.
Considering, then, this Treaty as merely a bar-
ftin uhi biting little or no profitand much to lose,
■eparale it from all considerations foreign to itself.
I judge it OB it* own meritii, and these must lead
DM to vote for the propoiidon lo suspend B[^ro-
priatiops, espcctally in a moment when our sea-
man continue to be iiapresB«d and our ships to be
taken. In this I maydiSar from many of my fel-
lowHiitiseM, whom 1 ^"■''f reqieet, and from
whom it gives me pain to haTe opmsite * '
BMBti, bai 1 rely on their candor, ana full ol
deepest sense of tbe high honor their choice hat
eonrerred upon me, I will endeavor to merit it by
the exertion of my be«t jndftnent for their inte-
rests, partaking, myself, equ^ly, at least, with any
of them, in the consequences that may result, and
which, I trust, will be »uch as will do honor to,
and promote the best and luoat lasting intereataof
our country.
When Mr. S. had conolnded his speech, the
House a4joi
Batdbdat, April 16.
DEBT DU£ BANK UNITED STATEB.
Mr. OALi.aTiii called up the resoldtioD which
he laid upon die table on Thursday, for the ap-
pointment of a committee to jikauire of the Bank
of the United States, whether they were willing
to let the Bom of t3,800,tl00 which they had ad-
vanced to Oovemment Dy way of anticipationi,
main on new loans as uMial.
After wne obserTationa on the nature and pn-
priety of the inquiry from Messrs. Gallatih,
SwANWicx, Hit-UBouBB, HAxrBB, SanawiOK, aad
Liviif OBTOH ; and the snm being struck ont, it waa
agreed to^ and a committee was ajqioinled to car-
ry the inquiry into effect.
EXECUTION OF BBTTIBH TREATY.
The House then resolved itself into a Cominit-
lee of the Whole on the sute of the Unitm, and
took up the resolution for carrying into effect tbe
Treaty with Ckeat Britain.
Mr.NtoBOLAasaidtbewasaairytofindgentlenMa
unwilling to go into a diaeuaBion of (he m^lt of the
Treaty, as be anticipated oonsidetaUe benefits to
the community from a lair inveatigation. He did
not know, as had been said, that it could have no
effect on the minds of members of the Houb^ but
he thought it necessary that the people should be
enabled to form a just opinion of the merits of this
compact, that neither omMMition nor their attach-
ment, should go beyond just bounds; that fair in-
vestigation was the most likely means of produ-
cing that calm in tbe public miud which he wished
to see produced whenever GpTemment had finally
decided, and he ^ould venture to say, there was
no place which could be resorted to for more sound
inforoiation. He was as willing to admit that it
could nqt be obtained ft-om the passionate puUi-
cations which were produced oy the first im-
pression of the Treaty, as be was bold to assert,
that it was not to be found in the labored Justifi-
cations which had appeared in the papers, and
which was diatinguislied more by sophistry and
zeal for tbe instrnment than a wiah to discover
truth, or a design to enli^teu the peeple of ifae
United States.
Under this impresBitn, he wotild offer his senli-
ments to the Committee, on tbe probable edeei* of
the Treaty. In looking for inducements to aceept
it, he should confine himself - to those offered by
the instrument itself; for he could not ajqireciale
those mischiefs which party men bad conjured
up as following the rejection of the Treaty. He
«ould not conceive that cause of offsnce would be
given to Great Britain, or that her interest or situ-
ation would permither to resent it.ifthete was such
cause ; this House had decided that the Constitu-
tion had made it theii duty to examine Treaties
like tbe present, and to determine on them ac-
cording to tbe interest of tbe Uniled States. It
followed tba^ being a constituted authority for
giving operation to such a Treaty, there was no
;dbvG00gle
HlSrroRT OF 00N0SE8S;
April, t796.]
JEmmMoU t^ BH$uh TVeofy,
[RopR.
oUifation on the United Stitoi nntil the Home
concuired; and Or«U Brihin must rniit this
' coDstruciioD of the Convtitmion before abe can
preieod thai any right of her'a ha> beeo riolaled.
Nobodv wili eoalend that she can meddle, on this
ciouno. or attempt to impoie a coostnictioa of the
ConBtitinion agreeable to lietself. A* there is
want of pretext for quarrel, sOtaJsOinitiBt there be
a disincIinatioD to embroil herself with the United
States. Thi* isthetime,ofaUothen,wbeDareat
Brilain wonld be moat arerse to war, exhanited
by hn present eoniest, eomplateljr disappointed in
the event! of it, and coQliDuing it ooty with the
hope of acquiring somethiiw oo which to build a
sale peace i it is not to be believed that she would
embark in a new war, with the^ sacrifice of her
be»[ trade i more eapeciallf , as she has shown an
JDiention of making her reinaiDiDg efforts acainat
France, in the oei^hborhood of the United States,
where their aupplies will be essmiiaJly necessary
to her suceeas. There does not appear any cause
of alarm ; but if there was reason to expMt that
Great Britain would take offence, that would be
no ground for acceptance. It would fally piore
the inequality of the coniraet, and would, in effect,
be an attack on the independence of this country.
The dancer would increase with the benefit she
promised herself and submission would inaritably
proroke demanos.
In -considering the merits of the Treaty itself,
Mr. N. said, he would consider the subjects which
pressed ihen»elres on the ncgoliator.and demand-
ed provision. These were chiefly the dispures
arising under the Treaty of 1783, late depreda-
tions on our trade, and the setilemeot of contested
principles to giurd us against future misunder-
standings.
The cases arising under the Treaty of 1763, as
heretofore contested, were negroes and other pro-
petty carried away contrary to its stipulations;
(be territorial claim under it, and on the part of
Great Brilaio, an interference in the recovery of
private debts.
Of the negroea, nothing is said in the present
Treaty, It is to be expected In negotiations,
that aome eonceasions are to be made for the sake
of aeeomaudaiion,and thia tacrifice of private in-
terests become* sometimes unnvoidahle. This
claim was of eansiderable importanae to a class of
the citizens of the United States, but it was of
still greater importance, as it justified the United
States from the charge of brMkiiw the Treaty of
P^«ce. In this respect it vr» hifply incnmbent
rnon in the negotiation, and it would not now
oeniioned, if it was not necessary to a fair es-
timate of some of the stipolatioiks of the Treaty,
and if there had not been so uniform a anrrender
of the interests of the United Slates as to compel
a calculation. Ii is now said, indeed, that the
meaning of the Treaty of 1783 waa mistaken, and
that the engagement was only to refrain from car-
rying away ncKraes, dbc., which should be found
in pussessioB of the inhabitants at the time peace
shoold take place. It is wH
of the words of the arlicle, as
its meaning has certainly been fixed by the inter-
pretation of the parties in the ten years which
elapsed af\er it. In all that time the United Biates
have asserted the claim, and ii cannot be shown
that Great Britain ever contested the constrac-
(ioo of the article. It is said, that one of the Com-
missioners, [Mr. Adaia9,]whD concluded the Trea-
ty of 1783, m behalf of the United States, inform-
ed the Senate, in their deliberations on this Trea-
ty, that it was the unquestionable roeaning of the
article, lo save all negroes and other property then
in the hands of the British ; that the article was
inserted after all other points had been settled at
the iiutance of Mr. Laurens, who just then ar-
rived from fais confinement in London, and the
reason assigned by him was, that many of the
people of the Umtecl States wonld he disabled
from complying with the part of the Treaty which
respects debts unlees this provision was made, that
the same gentleman, who was afterwards Ambas-
sador from the United States ta the Court of Lon-
do|i,also informed the Senate that, during his em-
bassy, this construction of the article was never
denied, and that it seemed to be understood by the
Ministry, that, on a settlement with the United
States, compenKatioQ must be made. This sub-
fully investi|aled by the negotialorof the
cl was fully mvestigaled by the aegottaloroftbe
reaty, [Mr. Jav,] while he was Secretary of Fo-
reign Affairs ; all the reasons whioh now arm the
friends of the Treaty against this claim were ex-
amined by him, ana then his decision wsa, that
we were entitled lo compensation. The reputed
author of the best defence of the Treaty, [Mr.
Hamilton,] in the year 1763, introduced a resolu-
tion into Congress, declaring that the negroes, Ac,
had been carried away by the British armies, con-
trary to the true intent and meBuing of the Trea-
ty. Mr. N. thonght it too late lo extort a mean-
ing from a contract after it had existed more than
ten rears; and he did not doubt every candid
mina would be satisfied by the acquiescence of
Brilain, and the evidence which he had produced
of a perfect nnderstaading between the Iwocoun- ■
tries on the subject. If the new construction of
the arlicle could not be established, the first iu-
fraciion of the Treaty of 1783 remained Indispu-
table. Before the Treaty became binding. Great
Britain, by carrying away the negroes, put it out
of her power io execute the contract which she
had made, while, on the part of the United States,
no aai had been done which was inconsistent,
with the Treaty, provided the acts of the Slates
did not eontinue to operate after the ratifications
were exchanged.
Before he examined the cases provided for in
this Treaty, it was necessary to remark, that the
Treaty declares its intention to be to settle the dis-
putes of the two coontries without regard to form-
er criminations, and all the writers in favor of the
Treaty, declare that it was necessary lo waive the
first infraction of the former Treaty. This was a
proper principle, and he only asked that it should
have been pursued. This spirit of conciliation
mniit have meant to put both parties on the same
footing, either by agreeing that neither party had
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGBESSi
ExeeuliM «< BrUiA Treaty
been the cause of the Timir not being executed,
or that both bad been eqnalljr guilty. He woold
examine whether either of these * ~ '
been punoeJ.
To obtaia a surrender of the potts, and the ter-
ritory withheld from uh, we bare sanctioned the
•ubsequeni alienations of land by the King of
Great Britaiu. We have confirined the ctaima
of the inhabitants and dispensed with their alle-
S'ance, by. permitting them to remain subjects of
rest Britain ; we have opened oar fiontier to all
their citizens, and permitted them to retains, share
of the Indian iraae. Mr. N. did not pretend to
Cdgr of the commercial effect of the intercourse
iween the frontiers, but be apprehended that, in
another respect, this concession would destroy the
whole value of the acquisition. The traders would
be enabled to maintain their accustomed influ-
ence over the Indians, and would have more in-
ducements than when they had a monopoly of the
trade lo embroil them with the United States.
Formerly, they were interested ia tbeir con tinn-
ing in peace, as war prevented the acquisition of
•kins and furs; but when American traders shall
embark in the trade, ihey will ha«e an obviovs
interest in war as the certain means of banishing
their rivals. It appears, (hen, that the Treaty of
1783, in this respect, is not revived— ibat there is
s new contract With respect to the posts, and niuch
less will be obtained than if that Treaty Jiad been
executed.
When (he claims of Great Brilaih, under the
Treaty of 1783, became the subject of the present
Treaty, the stipulations discover a diflerenl prin-
ciple. The United Slates give up the claim fbr
negroes, and agree to receive the posts on terms
which greatly diminish their value; but, when
the debts due from citizens of the United States
to subjects of. Great Britain are to be provided for,
there is not a stipulation that they may bow be
pursued without hindrance, but there iianengage-
ttent, OD ibc part of the United States, to pay all
lasses which nave arisen from the infraction of
the Treaty of Peace, so far as it respects them.
On what ground could this assumption have been
made? Why is this penalty imposed on the Unit-
ed Slates? There can be but one justi6eation,
and that is, that Ihey had been guilty of the first
infraction of the Treaty of Peace, and must make
amends; but there whs lo beno concession of this
kind, so that if damages were to be given at all,
Ihey should be given on both sides. It seemsclear,
then, whatever pretences are made by the Treaty
or ils advocates, that ihe first infraction of the
Treaty of Peace is fixed on the United Slates,
and tnat ihey are to make compensation for an
injury. Where does ihe conciliating temper of
Great Britain manifest itself? Had she a claim
under the Treatjf of 1783, which is forgotten?
Does she not receive everyihing which she could
have deniBiided in relation to that Treaty? The
United Slates are to indemnify her citizens com-
pletely for the non-exeeuiioD at the lime, and are
to receive less than was promised them without
the leasl coni[)ensaiion for the delay. But it tx
aomewbere said, that the damages could not be
demanded forwithholdlnff the posts, because they
could not be computed. It will be agreed by those
who press the acceptanee of this Treaty in order
to obtain die posts, that they arc important to the
United Stales. If of the consequence which' they
are represented to be, twelve years dispossession
must nave been a real injury, and the claim on
Great Britain will be indispntflblej although the
amount may not be certain. This might be a
good pretext for evading a Twymeni to the United
States, if this claim stood UDConuected with any
other ; but it must be considered as a very sbanDe-
tesi suggestion to enforce the payment of dama-
ges incurred by them. It is certainly a suffici. it
justification for retainioff what is in their hands
until Great Britain shBlfofrer something on ib -
aceount; otherwise she will be screened by ber
cunning in causing the subject of injury. Again,
it has been said thai this inequality In the Treaty
was proper, because the right to recover debts re-
luned with the peace, and did ndt depend merely
on the Treaty. It is to be remembered, that the
United Stales justify it as a retaliaiian for
breach on the part of Great Britain, and that, in
forming this Treaty, it was agreed to waive the
right to retaliate ; or, rather, the question, who
first infringed (he Treaty. Itis only lobe inquired,
then, whether this was a proper subject of retali-
ation 1 and, if it was, the United States ought to
escape all penalty for using ii, or Gireat Britain
(ions, page 268, where it is said that it n
not, in this respect, whether rights are innate, of
whether they have been acquired by express or
tacit covenant, or otherwise.)
Again : it has been said [hat the interference in
the recovery of debts was not on the part of (he
United Sta(es,but was from the individual Slates.
This argument admits thai it would have been
juelifiabTe if Congress had directed it, hot sup-
it wrong for want of that directitxi. Hoir
" ' ' uld avail herself of this, caunot
moD icgenniiy to discover. The effect of this
lelaliation is only to produce a fund for satislymg
injuries done by Great Britain. It wotild be ita-
material in what manner ibe fbnd was obtained,
and Great Britain eoold Dever object to the use tyt
it on account of that manner. A fair investiga-
tion of this aKreemeot requires some estimate of
the amount otthose damages. This must depend
upon conjecture, but showing the cau^ in which
the United States will be liable, will snfficiently
stiow that its amount will be seriously fell. The-
principle of the Treaty and its express sttpulati.n n
IS. that the United Stales will make good all
losses by the operation of legal impedinienis to the
recovery of deble. A case urderslood on all
hand.s to b- an object of the Trenty is, that of in-
loWency happening during ihe interference. This
will be found to nmount to a considerable sum.
Another ease is. where, from the course uflhingn,
the length of lime clapKed will put it oui of t^e
power of creditors to produce that kind Of proof
;dbvG00gle
1008
WarrOttf OF CONtiREHiS.
lalto
April, ITQtt.]
Saieattiim <^ Britith Treaty.
wliiah the Itws of the Stales require, and where
i( will be necesMrjr, to extcatt the principle of the
Treatf, to admit some other kind of proof. The
Treaty Kemi to hart had this case ta T)ew,for it
has ezpreMlr empowered the ComsiisBiODers to
leceire booki, copies of books, aad mcb other
proof a* thef may think proper. In ViTginia, the
bosinesi wa^ done in socb a mautierthat a great
part of the debts remained due on open accounts
without ■peciall}', and the commoa law principles
st'evideneeroTerDed the Courts, except within two
years of the date of the account, wiihin which time
■•merchant was permitted to proFe hi), account by
hi3 own oath. This privilege canaot now be
claimed in any of those cases, and the other
tiiodea of proof are perhaps uniformly lost by the
length of time. There seems, then, uBder the
Treaty, to be an irresistible claim on the Com-
missioaers to admit creditors to prore their ae-
eoaats by some nonible means, and these piook
being refiued by the Courts will throw this whole
dass of debu on the United States : their
will be enormoDS.
Another class of claims which may fall on the
United States is still more alarming— those for
war-interest The Treaty has explicitly aoihor-
ized the Contmiasioners to judge of all claims of
British subjects lost by legal impediments, whe-
ther of principal or interest,and ineyare to deter-
mine according to justice, equity, and the Law of
Nations. In the eorrespondence on this subject
between the two Gorernments, the right has been
asserted and denied ; and il will depend on the,
CommiisioDers to say whether wap-interett is due
or not ; and il being to be supposed that the Com-
miasioocrs will advocate the principles of their
respectire OoTemmenis. the United State* are to
depend on the chance election of the fifth Com-
missioner for safety. If it shall be determined that
it ia due, the mischief will be iasufierable. It will
not merely be recovered in those cases where the
principal is anpaid, nor will it be confined to
those cases where it has been lost by actual judg-
ment of a Conrt, hut wilt extend to all eases of
Srivate settlement, where the decision of the Jn-
iciary of the State bad previously settled the
principle.
This may be considered as a groundless appre-
hension ; but if the right to war-interest is setiW.
tiie extent cannot be doubted. Everybody will
•ee immediately that where it was stricken off by
a Court, it must be revived ; and one moment's
reflection will eonvinee, that relief must equally
be extended to the case of private settlement.
The difference, if any, must be created by the
party's failure to institute snit, and everybody must
a )mit that this could not be expected where, by
previous decision, it was known that be had no-
thing to expect from the Courts ; indeed, without
a po.Hsibiliiy of benefit, it might have been attended
with the loss of costs or a tender of principal, and
that part of inteteat which the Court held due,
would hare subjected him to costs for all further
prooecding. According to the average rate of in-
terest in the United State*, the war-interest eqaaU
one half the prinetpal, ttid it kaa bees the univor-
ihe Treaty is to pat this daugerou*
power into Iha hands of the Com mis»i oners, a
reference may be had to the latter end of the
number of ■* CamiUua," where it is clearly ad-
' ft appears, then, that on the subject of the dis-
putes arising under the Treaty of 1783, there is
no cause for congratulation. The claims for ne-
Knea carried off are abandoned ; the posts are to
delivered up, on terms not nnusual and dishonor-
able, but extremely dangerous to thefuturepeaceof
theUnited States,and to obtain themin this manner
we incur an obligation to pay a sum which pro-
bably will not fall short of five miUions of dotlara,
and which may possibly amount to fifteen mil-
lions. When it is remembered that these claims
commenced with our independence, and that they
were the concessions to our iu&ui struggles, what
American is there who will not feel the disgrace
to our manhood in abandanins themf All must
blush at a compatisoo of the Treaty we obtained
with our arms, with that which has been dictated
by fear.
The next subject which claimed theattentioD
'nited Slates;
this subject it will be proper to review the cir^
cum^tances in which the negotiator left this cowh
try. The losses sustained had been considered
here as outrages of so serions a nature that all
parties had concurred in demanding reparation;
some had attempted at 'once to use coercion, and
those who approved the mission declared that war
must follow a faiture. In this situation. Ivhera
the sense of Oovercment and people was aecided,
and where the injury was not only inti^erable in
itself but was likely to be repeated, it seems asto-
nishing that a man could be found who "would
conclude a Treaty which gives to the United
States no compensation, but more astonishing that
partisans could be found here who approved hia
conduct. It may be asserted that no eompensatiim
is secured by the Treaty, and that under its operai^
tion it is equally prolMUe that none will be re-
ceived. See the article. It has been doubted, and
is, perhaps, very doubtful, whether the Courts of
Qreat Britain are not made the jud|^ of irregular
and illegal captures and condemnations, and whe-
ther the orders of the King are not admitted as
good cause of seizure; but it never has been con-
tended that compn-wtion is promised in any par-
hat any principles are estahlished
by the TrealT which are to govern the Commi»-
sioners. In tbe conntiuetion of their powers, in-
sisted on by the advocates of the Treaty, theit
Siiidesarejusiice,equity.and the Laws of Nations^
obody can complain of these principles, if their
fair operation was secured ; but a moment's atten-
tion will show that this was nothing bnt an era-
lion ofthe subject.
The Qovecomentsthemsdvcs have been at issna
about what the Law of Nations relative to thk
■abjaet is, and it will not be denied that the Coa^
QgitizcdbyGOOgle
IPU
HISTOftT OF Cm&BSSSB.
H.orR.]
Exeeutitm ^ Brititk TVMMiy.
(;ApRI^1796.
toaeule this contottd law, nawell
u to decide on bets. What, then, ii to be ex-
pected from the ConuDusioDecs? Can ilbe doubt-
ed, if there was danger that ibe political opinJMis
of ihe ComcmtsioaerE would, not coofoim to those
of (he GorerDmeDl, that Grreat Britain will previ-
ouslv ascertain a concuttcDCe in principles wbich
she nas contended for ao long 7 In the most faroiv
able ereai, all that can be expected on the part of
the United Slates is thai tbeir own Conuni«sioit>
en will be equally zealoua, white it is very possi-
ble that the sincerity of their GcTetninent will
fweTent a pterious examlDaiion into the qualifica'
lions of tbeir Commissiooers. If this should be
the evenl, and nobody will deny that it is the one
vhich ought to be calculated on, what will be the
■ituatien of the parties 1 Resort must be had to
a fifth Commisaioaer, or rather tg the chance
which is to decide hit appointment. The United
filaiee, then, in this clear and delicate concern, is
to submit ID the decision of chance for reimburse-
meflt. There is noconly anequalchanceof loving
all^ but it depends on this tribunal whether the
pnnciplea under which Qieat Britain has acted
•hall not be sanctioned. There being no aeree-
inent on principles, there can be no acknowledg-
nent of injury unconnected with the event of
leparation. Why is this solemn mockery of out
tiffhlB ? If dio< or straws were to determine ihem,
Why not make the trial in secret, and let the
Treaty depend on tbeir decision? It would have
been mucn more hoaorahla to abandon all claim
io that stage of the business on their decision, than
to receive as a concession in the Treaty that Ihev
ta»f decide, and to prepare for that decision with
di« solemn forma wnich appear in this bosineM.
But there is evidence oeyond the wording of
the article, which has bees before, said Io be donbt-
Ail, that Qreat Britain does not mmn to submit
pHnciplei at all to the decision of these Commis-
tioaen, and that she will insist on their confoim-
ing to the principles eslahlished by her Courts.
It will be remembered that when the time for
appeal was extended by the King of Qreat Britain,
it was supposed to be ihe mode of makiikg com-
penaalicm to the citizens moEt agreeable to the
{Vide of Great Britain, and that in the review of
adjudged casen all principles would be abandoned
Vhich might subject them to compulsory restitu-
tioit when any tribunal not dependant on that Go-
rernment should be established.
If the case is resorted to in which their Courts
of Appeals decided against the MesEirs. Pattersons,
of Baltimore, it will be found that they, so far as
Muons are asngned at all, have affirmed princi-
glei which of all others would be most likely to
be denied by ao impartial tribunal ; and it is fair
ti conclude, considering this Court as altogether
a political one, that there is no intention to sub-
mit their decision to a review. It has been usual
to eoDoect this article with that respecting British
debt% and to oppoae objectioDs to this, b^ saying
that both are in the same words ; but it will easily
fa* seen that the fit&ess of the remedy depends
'tltogether <m the aubject^naltet. In a consider-
«Ue paM of tk« daima wUoli will attae oadec 1^
article the Commissioaers will only have te in-
quire into facts. . What constitutes a debt, being
too certain to admit of doubt, men. of character
could nowhere be found who, when deciding on
them, could be brought to take the part of either
Gosernmenl ; but this is not the case where politi-
cal opinions are to be the basis uf their proceed-
logs, as in case of spoliatioos; every day's expe-
rience proves that these are ccwied from those
with whom you converse, that taey are founded
m views of aggrandizement, and that opposite
iides may be supported with sueb specious reaaons
ks to leave the partisans without a suspicion of
Dsecurity. Commissioners are, therefore, very
proper for deciding where priociples are not in
dispute, bnt where they ^re, chance must be called
in to aid them ; for it is not in any case Io be ex-
pected that they will a^ree.- It may be asked,
what was to be expected m this case 1 It may be
answered, that □uihing is done, and, thcrefoTe, if"
we are satisfied of our rieht, more ought to hare
been insisted on ; priucimes should have been de-
cided by the Treaty itself, not only for guidance
of the Conunissi oners, but for fnlure securiiv.
The next subject in relation to which this Treaty
to be considered, is the settlement of principles
preveol future misundetslandings. With re-
spect to it the Treaty will be fonnd still leu satia-
factory. The discussion on the article respecting
actual spoliations wiU fuUy piore that little can
have been done. The principles of compensatioa,
if any had been fixed^ would have beaaa rule for
, future conduot; and K is no small aggravation of
(he abandonment, that we are always to be sub-
ject to similar injuries. The daily outrages to
our com meica and c omm ercial agen ts a re f ull jirooEi
that their safety must have bran badly provided
for, or,,if provided. for, that the eieeution of (ha
Treaty is not to be expected. It may safely be
affirmed thai no provisioo is toede in questionable
cases, bnt t^ a surrender of rights on the part of
the United States; there is reason to feat that
this bas been done in some imuorlast cases. The
Eeneral list of contraband has Ren very muck ea-
LTged to our disadvantage, white the books on
(he Hubject were divided, and pnctice wax againiit
(he concession. I( seemed to nim to be (he effect
of the 18th article of the Treaty to concede a
right under the Law of Nations to capture pro-
vision vesseb going to an enemy's country ; and
if so, it is extremely injurious to the United Suies.
Although apologists are found for almost every-
thing which has happened between tbe United
Stales and Qreat Britain, yet nobody has been
hardy enough to advocate this right contended for
by her. C&miUiu declares it not to be maintaiit-
ablc,and the claim is too extravagant to be found-
ed on anything but force. To suppose that rapine
over the whole commerce of a country is to ba
justified, bv a declaration of the plunderers that
ibey have bopea of reducing an enemy by faiabe,
is to abandon every principle of law. In tbe third
section of the IStb article, it appears that confia-
cation of vessel and catgo, as under the Law of
Nationa, conilioues to be the penally of vessela
going, witk wXica, to a place besieged, Uoekadad,
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OP G0KGR]!»S.
ApRI^17S6.]
Sxeeutiim <^ Briliih TVeoty.
[H.DPR.
or inTMted; mi it ntauos to be inquired for
what eawa tlie MCMd section trf the nine article
wu prorHled. By it, it Is Agreed, "that, to pro-
vide uninal incoavenienecB ami misundentand-
ings which might arise from the disBgreemeat as
to the cases in which norisions and other articles,
not ^^enerally contrannd, become so under the
exjatmg Law of Nations, when they so become
eoBtraMDd they shall not be confiscated, but the
owners thereof be speedily and completely indem-
nified," ftc. This article^ with the other comn
o «pire m two years afterthe
« made for the
war.
The agreeipent being apparently Tor the bene-
fit or the neutral natioc, that is, the United States,
is to be considered as made at her solicitation ;
and it must be nsreed, that It contains a conces-
sion on her part that a atae may exist where the
Bgreement will ojtetate. What is this case? It
may be seen in Mr. JErraiieoN'e letter to Mr.
Ptnekney, remonstrating against the seizure of
proTiiion Tcssds under the orders tk the 8th of
June, that the Executive of (he United States
deny that the right of seizure exists in any case
bat that of going to a place invested, blockaded,
or beaieged. Great Britain, on her pert, has nerer
riatmed more than one other, and that has been
in the oaae where she had an expectation of
bringing her enemy to peace by famine, b it
not greatly to he apprehended, that when this is
the oalT ease which has come into dispute be-
tween the two countries, the only one pretended
10 exist on one side, and denied by the other, that
when there is an admission of [he kind eooiained
in this article, that it is of the contested case it-
lelf ? But It » said that there is no admissioo
cmtained in the article, hot only a provision for
the caxe when it doee happen. It is a sufficient
answer to thb, tosay, that compensation can only
be obtained under the article when thera is an
cessary to the operation of the article. The de-
claration that it was to prevent inconveniences
and misunderstanding, shows that there must
have been some important operation with respect
to contested eases in view, and that there was
some adjastmant of principles, so as to make way
for its operation. IT the reference to the Law of
Nations was stricken out, it wonld he easy to
tcomprehend the article.
It would then mean, that during the present
war, all inquiries mts the legality of captures
was to be waived, and that the compensation
should be general. It is easy to acconnt for the
insertion m that reference; for while the negotia-
tor was willing to pot things on that footing, he
was unwilling, uid was conscious it would be
iiDpropet to make so unmasked a sacrifice of the
rignts of Franec in oar lawfbl tHde. These
words, then, which are of themsdvea inconsistent
wHh the ooBint, to reconcile the whole elause,
■anat prodnee an adraissioa of a right to seize.
H Kay ^n- very tufomuMte tlati it ahonld
hare been thought necemiry to veil the article,
for the words which were probably only intended
for that purpose, will effect the admission of a
permanent pricciple in the Law of Nations ^
which will bind forever, while the compensation
will have expired. But it is said bv CbmiUuf,
that if the article contains an^ admission of right,
it cannot be said to admit it in the case of guiog
to an enemy's country generally; for that there
are other cases to which the compensation may
apply. That writer mentions the case of a vessel
leaving home for a blocltaded port, with notice of
the blockade; but he is certainly mistaken. The
last section c^ the article in question would sub-
ject such vessels to confiscation as usual ; and it
appears impossible to distinguish such a case in
reason from the one where noiiee was given by
the hesi^ers. He conjectured, also, that a vessel
going to an investing fleet would be subject to
seizure j hut brings no authority for saymg so}
and it is unnetiessary to investigate a case whieh
was not in view of the parties, was not likely to
happen, and could not give such importance to
the article ss it seems to claim. In truth, there
can be no doubt about the subject^f the article;
for while it was little understood, the case I have
suggested was the avowed object of it ; and it
has certainly] been practised on in the manner I
understood it. Indeed, some zealots for the
Treaty, not understanding the eonsequeoees, treat
its operation in this respect as a benefit to the
United States.
This construction renders the artiele a matlM
of very serious moment in onr ccmnexion with
France. In the letter before referred to from Mr.
JsprEKBON to Mr. PinoKHBV, it is the avoweil
opinion of QovernmeDi, that a toleration of the
capture of our provision vessels would give just
cause of complaint to France, and that she might
justly charge the United States with a covert as-
sistance or her enemy. If the toleration of an
act which was apparently an injury to ourselvea,
wonld bear this construction, how onqnestionabto
will be the breach of neutrality, when we sur^
reader the right, and Miputate eompensation for
the snrrender. The character of the article in ^
this respect deserves serions inquiry; for the peo-'
pie of the United State* are not ready to transfer
their alliance from France to Qreat Britain, and
wilt not submit (o it.
In all this investigation of the subject in rela-
tion to our long standing difierences, our recent
injuries, or out future connexion, there is nothing
but a qualified surrender of the posts to console
us for great accumulation of delrt. disfaonotaUa
surrender rf OUT just rights, and where they
were of a nature not to be surrendered, for a no
less dishonorable evasion.
It will not be understood that I suppose it wai
in Mr. Jay's power to make his own terms, bat I
complain of his treating at all on the terms he
did. It is said that It was not in his power to
extort what he wished, but I complain that he
yielded to the extortion of Great Britain. What
has he left ber to «sk. what baa he not aurrett*
dered 1 While profeasing, u the Treaty iom^
.dbyGoOgk'
HISTOBT OF CONQKESS.
Eaxeulvm qf BritUh TVuXy,
{ArRl^l796.
that there were impoitoDt poiaU of o
commercial privileges 7 If ihe Treaty had been
the most complete am] saiisractory, wuuld it cot
be oeceisary 10 leBTe Bometbing to enforce itB ex-
ecutioD? What weapons have we which can
reach ber7 The Treaty makes war indispensa-
ble, as the only iedre»s of iajuries, and bow will
war from the UDiIed States reach Qreat Briuia ?
It was certainly improper to ^ire up all powtsr of
rcBtrictiag her commeice until the same in:'"'
ment cootained the fullest satiafaclioD as to _
own. It was improper to give up all the power
of seizing on the debts of her subjects, for thin,
when the power of lestrictiag her commerce was
lurtered for equal privileges, would be the only
means ^i maintaining respect. It is not necessa-
ly that weapons of any sort should be used, but
it is more daogerous to surrender them. I an
friend to interTerenee in private contracts, and I
can truly say, I never was willing to lesoi
this remedy til] all .others had been tried ; but if
there was an impossibility of doing it. the want
of the power would immediately be felt. The
impolicy and immorality of sequestration have
been dwelt on. Contrast it with war, for which
it is a substitute, and it will be found u both re-
■pects unequal to it. All national remedies are
Bllended with great mischiefs to those who use
them, and they must be adopted only on com-
parison in this respect, and with regard to their
. effects on the enemy. In this last respect, there
aeems to be no choice to the United Stales ; they
have no other weapon that can reach Great Bri-
tain, and 1 greatly Fear chat, when this is lost, we
Aie completely disarmed.
On the whole, having fuUv satisfied myself of
the obligation to examine tbe operation of (bis
Treaty, and to weigh well its effects before I give
it my aid, I must determine that I see scarcely
one interest of the United States promoted by it,
whiie^ on the other hand, it has established Great
Britain in (hat dominant situation which she is
too apt to make use of. All our powers are sacred
trusts, and how it is possible lor any gentleman
who thinks (he execution of this Treaty among
them to give it his assent, is to me inconceivable.
When Mr. N. sat down-
Mr. Swirr said, be wished to make a few re-
marks on this subject. The Treaty of Amity
and Commercd before them, had been negotiated
with Great Britain, it had been ratified by the
constituted authortiics of the United States, and
promulgated in the legal form; and yet the
House of Representatives were examining its
merits, in order to determine whether they will
make the necessary appropriations for carrying it
into effect.
This proceeding seemed to involve a manifest
absurdity and contradiction. That it should be
■aid (hat the Treaty was made by the proper nu-
thority, and that it should a Aer wards be in the
power of one branch to determine whether it be
good or bad, and (o agree or disagrf« (o it, ap-
peared to be an absvrdiiv which cpiud not be ad'
mitted in our ConstitutioB. He belieTed, if (hey
attended to the Constiution, a fair construction of
it would not admit of such an idea. This subject
had, on a former occasion, undergone considera-
ble discussion ; but, as he had not spoken upon
that occasion, he would now offer a few observa-
tions upon the cooEiruction of the Constitution.
If they attended to the letter of the Constitu-
tion, there could be no doubt. But it wa> said
there was a clashing of powers, ami that the same
objects of JDrisdictiou were delegated to the Le-
gislature and Executive. He was sensible that,
if (be same powers were given (o two difiereot
bodies, without deciding which was superior, the
consequence must be a continual warfare; but if
they attended to the subject, they would find the
Constitution (□ be consistent, ana all doubt would
vanish. It must be admitted that the Trea-
ty power would sometimes occupy the same
ground Vith the Legislative power; one of them
mu^ therefore, be para mount, or their clashing
would be irreconc liable. It appeared to him
that the Treaty power was superior. He thought
the Constitution bad established tbc principle
which decided this question. There had always
been a doubt of the effect of a Treaty in other
GoverumentSj and under the Confederation ; but
the Constitution, to remove this doubt, had de-
clared that Trea6es shall be taw*. By pursuing
tnis idea, ihey would find that the point in dis-
pute was settled. The Constitution had said that
the Constitution, laws, and treaties, were laws of
the land. Here they had three sources whence
they derived their lawa. The question was,
which was supreme 1 He knew it had been said,
that the acts of Congress must be superior.
Some gentlemen bad argued that the first in or-
der, and others the last, was superior. It ap-
peared to him that the Constitution had decided
which was superior ; and by attending to it, there
could be no doubt on the subject. The Consiilo-
tion must be considered as the will of the people ;
it must be considered as irrepealable by an act of
the Legislature. The Constitution ispaiamount
to Treaties or laws. Acts of the Legislature
were repealable in all cases, except where con-
tracts were made. With respect to Treaties, it
appeared to bim thai the Constitution had de-
clared them laws, and that of course they must
repeal-all prior repugnant lews; and being con-
tracts from their own nature, are ineapaole of
being repealed. The consequence is, that a
Treaty can repeal an act of Congress ; it must
do this, or it is not law. They must observe,
also, that Treaties with foreign naiicns cannot
be repealed by an act of the Legislature. They
might, therefore, lay it down that Treaties arc
irrei)ealabte, consequently that the department
making such a law must be. superior to that de-
partment of Government which had not the
power to make an irrepealable law. It had been
said, that Treaties might be repealed by a law;
but he believed a little attention to the Law of
Nations would convince gentlemen of the can-
trary. A Treaty being a contract, it would be
ceeo it could not be repealed. This would be to
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mST(»T OP CONGBESS.
I APflii^lT96.]
SxicvJitm of BrltM Treah/.
[H..
deny fint principles, and to destroy the efficacy
of akl Treaties. It had been said that a Treaty
euinoi repeal prior lam, beeaaae laws were msde
by the Lwislatife DeparlmeDl, and Treaties by a
differeoi dapartmeDt, and tbai it wai necesaary
for the same pawerwhich made the law to repeal
it He beliered, it would not be foand anywhere
anenad, that du law could be repealed, eicept by
the power which made it. He bellered that a
ConBiiitiiion might ^Itb to a different department
the power of repealing laws. Was not (his. in-
deea, in their Constitution? Had not the Coo-
stitaiion placed in their hands the power of mak-
ing laws, and gi'ea to Treaties tlie lisht of re-
pealing laws? This being admitted, no difficuliies
lemaio. The Treaty power must be paramonnt
because supreme. He knew it might be said
there was some impropriety in giving both
braDchea the same power j but if gentienien at-
tended to the subject, they wonid nee the difficul-
ties give way ; because tne Legiilnture may ex-
ercise this potrer until the Treaty power is in
exercise; but, the moment the Treaty power
comes into exercise, then the Legislature gives
way, and the Treaty power beiog supreme, re-
peals all laws contrary ro it. Viewing (he sub-
ject in this point of light, the Treaty before them
wu the sapreme law of the land, and that, as
such, they were bound to make all the appropria-
tione necessary to carry it into effect.
He knew that it had been said, that this princi-
ple wuntd deprive them of all their power; but
gentlemen would find, that when the Treaty
power had occupied all the ground it could, there
would still be left many ODJect? of jurisdiction,
for the Legislative power. But if, on the olhec
hand, tfaey oo not admit Treaties to be binding,
until ratified by that House, the Treaty power
would be at an end, the LcKislature mi^ht occu-
Ey the whole ground, and the Executive would
i unable to form a Treaty with a foreign na-
tion. All Treaties, of course^ would depend on
the acts of Congress for ihejr validity, and as
such acts would oe repealable, there could be no
security in a Treaty. He would not pursue this
subject farther, but would say a. few words with
respect to appropriations.
Notwithstanding the power given to the Legis-
lature to make all appropriations of money; yet,
in all cases where the national faith is plignied, a
contract is made, or a debt contracted, U becomes
ui ubsolule duty to make Che necessary appro-
priaiioa to carry it into effect; for he consideied
no doctrine so improper, as that, after a debt or
contract was entered into, that tney slionld con-
sider the propriety of the contract on. the ques-
tion of discharging the obligation. He, therefore,
thought that it was agreed on all hands, that if a
contract was constitutionally made, they were
bound to carry it into effect, and that they had
not the right to check the execution of contracts.
But gentleinen had thought proper to go into an
ioquiry with respect to the merits of the Treaty,
in order to dtscovet whether iiwould be for the
publio good to utiy it into effect. Thoupji ha
would not abandon his principles, yet he was
ready to meet them on that ground.
There had been much clamor and misrepresen-
tation with respect to the Treaty before them;
but he trusted, in that Committee, the subject
would have a fair and ample discussion. He be-
lieved, if this were the case, we should find suflS'
cient reasons for adopting it. He ventured to say,
that the position might be supported that this
Treaty had adjusted a variety of disputes between
the two nations upon reasonable and honorable
principle*. He believed it had secured to them a
'variety of commercial advantages, with few sacri-
fices on their part ; at the same time that he was
convinced that there was not a single article in-
jurious to their dignity or independence as a at-
lion. It had been spoken of as sacrificing our lib-
erty and prostrating every thing great and noble
to the omoition of a foreign Power. He believed,
on a fair discussion, the reverse would be found to
be the case. In the examination he intended to
go into on the subject, he would not go into the
minulis of commerce, as be was oo commercial
In the first place, it' was natural for them to take
into consideration the Treaty with respect to the
adjustment of past dispnief ; those owing to the
inexecuitou of the terms of the Treaty oT Peace
were, the takingaway of negroes, pBymenl of Brit-
ish debts, and &t detention of the Western posta.
The other dispute respected the spoliations on
our commerce committed in 1793 and 1794:
With respect to the negroes, very little could
be said. It had been observed, that till lately, it
had always been allowed thdt they had a claim
on Qreat Britain on account ol those negroes. It
was enough to look at the article itself in the
Treaty of Peace j and he was surprised that any
person could ever have entertained an opinioa
that they were entitled to compensation. If tbit
article was attended to, it would be seen it was in-
tended only to prevent their carrying away ue-
gross aud properly that should be taken fn future,
and could have no reference to those caplUrea
during the war and before the Treaty, the propei^
ty of which had vested in the captors. That point
was so clear as not to adm
doubt ; '
other construction Ihey might claim all the prop-
erty plundered during the war, which no one pre-
tended. For his own part, when he first read it,
and ever since, he was of the same opinion. He
should, therefore, consider the non-payment of
British debts and the detention of the Western posts
as the only two points in dispute arismg from the
in execution of the Treaty of Peace.
They observe, that in forming the Treaty now
before them, the parties went on general princi-
ples. There were two points unsettled, viz ; Brit-
ish debts unpaid and the British posts not given
up. The only mode of settlement was, that the
one country should pay their debts, aud the other
give up the posts, without deciding who were
guilty of the first breach of the Treaiy. The stu^
render of the posts was a complete execution on
the part of Oreat Britain ; the payment of the
debts equally complete on our port; but as it waa
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H.opR.]
EmcuHor of BritUh Tkwty-
[A.PRI^ 1796.
(houid par (ot tlie deficieacf ; for othernriie Ibe
Tteatjr or Peace would not hare been executed.
Foi erery om mux! igree ihat il tbey gei the
poila I'rom the, British, aod they could oolf get
oite-leDih pait of their debts, il ms not equal oa
both Bidefc But Qreai Britain woold bare an ajl-
vantage, because she was to receive interest upon
her debt, and they had no allowance made for the
detentiuu of the posts. In answer to this, it mi^ht
be said ihat ther« was great difficulty in making
any calculation upon the subject ; for, if it had
been attempted, the British might hare been
charged with stirring up the Indians to war,
whicn they certainly would have denied. He be-
lieved it laight be farther reioarked, that Great
DritaiD had determined never to deliver the po&ts
until the debts were paid. He would ask genile-
BWD, therefore, whether it wu not l>etter to hnve
an accommodation upoa the terms which their ne-
Etiatorhadmadetluuigotowarl Nodotibteould
had on the subject.
But it bad been said by a gentleman from Vir-
ginia [Mr. NicBOLAfij that ibe sum that mmi be
Sid for British debts would amount from 6ve to
.ecD millions. He did not think the sum would
be equal to the smaller sum, though he bad no
calculation on the subject ; but, let the sum be
ever so great, if the debt* were just, they ought to
bepatd.
Suppose the ntgotiator had said he vust have
a recompense for the posts havinc been kept con-
trary to the stipulations of the Treaty of Peace.
ThU would have brought up the quesUon, who vi-
olated the Treaty ? And he believed if this in-
i^airy had been gone into, it would not have issued
in our favor, for he was sorry to believe we were
the first aggressors. For the point being settled
that thejr t^ not broken the article respecting
negroes, it wai certain that by laws parsed in
several Btates the Treaty was first violated on
our part.
This, then, would have been the cooaequenee:
It would bave appeared that we were the first in-
Iractorsc^theTreatyof Peace, and that we had
now no other claim than the posts which the Brit-
ish had kepi for their own security. Maoy gen-
tlemen might think (his represealation impropei
in this place ; but be believed it to be true, and if
true, they ought to make payment of the British
debti^ however great the loss may be, before tbey
could have any just claim for the surrender of the
It appeared,. then, to him, that with respet
the dispute respecting the fulfilment of the Treaty
of Peace of 1783, the British had got what they
clainied, and we had got what we claimed.
The nest point of dispute repected the spoli
tions on our commerce In 1793 and 1794. The
gentlemBD last up, from Virginia, [Mr. NiCHo-
I.A8,J had said that there was little prospect of
StlmgaDjr compensation for those spoliations by
e provisions of the Treaty. From reading it,
he hod formed a different idea. In the first place,
they had recotuse to the British conrU of law.
and if ntisfaetion was Mt obtained by ihatmeauta,
Commissionera were to be appointed to adjust the
amount of the losses which ^ad been Muluned,
in order to their being paid. But it wad objected
against these Commissioners that they were to ex-
amine into the principles of these captures and
spoliations, when we were convinced that there
was no neeeasity for such ezaminatioa. This was
a very extraordinary objectioo. He had always
&uppoKd that most of the captures wa« against
the Iaw of Nations; but he believed, notwith-
standing, that there were some of them in con-
formity thereto. If the matter had been submit-
ted to the determination of a British court of law
alone, we might have had reason to eom^in;
but the Treaty determined that two Comraiitsioa-
en. should be chosen by each party, and the fifth
by the other four, or if they could not agree, each
parly was to appoint we, and determine the
choice by lot, and that these should have the
Kwer of determining over tbe British courts of
V. Could they have expected the British n^
tion should have said, all the captures we have
made are illegal, and we will pay their full amount
without examination 1 Surely not. He thought
the provision was a just one, and that they stoiMl
a fair chance of getting reeompeBsa for the spoli-
aliono committed upon the ptopeny of their mer-
chants. But gentlemen had said that all wonU
depend npon tbechoioe of the fifth Comnussiooet.
He could not thiok so. Fc» he would not have so
unfavorable an opinion of his countrymen or of
British subjects as to believe that they will judge
only in favor of their own nation. He trusted
thev wonid decide upon the broad basis of prin-
ciple, and not upon the narrow one of country.
He acknowledged he could not perceive, and he
thought K^ntlemen should not be so desirous of
Sliding fault wiib the Treaty as to impute any
blame on this article. Heibouffhi theadjastment
probosed fair and honorable to both nations.
With respect to commerce, he should make few
remarks, as, not being a commercial man, he could
not be supposed to be so welt acquainted with it
as some other gentlemen in the Committee. But
it appeared to him that Great Britain had granted
us extensive commercial advantages, and uiat we
had granted them no new privilege.
Our territory adjoins the British dominions in
Canada, and both oations must bare experienced
Eceat incooreniences if an intercourse could not
ive been established. The Treaty has settled a
commercial intercourse between the United States
and Canada, upon snch fair and liberal principlea,
ihat it will be found highly advantageous to tbe
United States, and it is altogether probable that
we shall not only secure the for inde, but that
1^ shall obtain the whole trade of Canada. Bui
a ^ntleman from Virginia [Mr. ManiBOM] had
objected to this article because it had sMured to
Bniish sniijects tbe privilege of nonages, which
he said was a eoodition clogging ae surrendering
of the posts. This has ao relation to tbe delivery
of the posts, but is a part of the system of con-
mcreial intereoarae estaUi^ed betwaen the two
natioBs, and whieb, on inqoiry, woold be fomd ta
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HISTORT OF CONGRESS:
£MiMttoN «/ Brttith TVeoJy;
be gTMtlv in faror of the United States in ererj
tefpect. Il evidaDced a UDgular diBpciitioQ to find
&Mt with tbe Tfeatjr, to reprobate artislcs which
were muiilestly io our favor.
With respect to the East ladies, the Tieatf
gave them Tory important advantages, Itmafbe
nid thai ihey poaseised the sanie advaotagei be-
foie the Treaty, in lespeet to India, that Ihey now
poMCSB. Bnt they-might then have tefnaed them
admiuioo, but now tbe privilege was secured to
tbecB. It had been su^ested by the ttentlemaa
from Pennsylvania [MrVBwAHWicK] that the Bast
India commerce was of little consequence, upon
ground which be thonicht &llaoious. Tbeif com'
merce to the East Indfes was proved beyond doubt
to be of ereaieonsequeace, by the Dumber of ships
employed in it ; and il was imporsibte that a com-
merce which was very lacralive when it was car-
ried an upon sufferance, should cease to be so im-
mediately on ita' being secured to ns by Treaty.
Yet the gentleman from Pennsylvania had said
the stipulation would prove of noadrmntage to
the United States.
But it is said they were restricted from kying
higher duties upon British ships than upon other
foreign ships. This appeared to him a matter of
verjrlittle coosectnenee. The article contained a
reciprocal reitrietion on both nations.
He could not see any sacrifice in these restric-
tioos on our part, though if there had been, we
had am pie recompense m the East India tradcj for
which no return is made oa our part.
Greet fault was foDod with the Treaty, because
it did not provide for a free trade to the West In-
dies, (for he need not say anytbioK on the iwelfih
article, as it ceased to exist.) What claim ^d
they to a trade to the West Indies ? He did not
•ee that they had any right to call up<Ht the Brit-
ish 'Qovemment to open their ports to them.
Great Britain was a sovereign oatiDo, and had a
right to keep us from her ports if she pleased. No
doubt it would be extremely advantageous to the
West Indies to have a free tinde wiUi this coun-
try, bat it would be an injury to Great Britain ;
therefore, having founded Colonies, and being at
K great expense m supporting those Islands, they
could not expect she would snfer America to
leap all the. advanlages which she derives from
her commerce with them.
Tbe same objections might be brought against
the Spanish Treaty. Il would be as advantage-
o«s for ui to enter the Spanish ports in South
r the West Indie.i as it would be
contemplate the paseing an act
ifiscate debts, he believed it would be found
so difficult in execution, that it would produce so
much imschief, and open the door to so many
frauds, that it would bring so little money into the
Treasury, and, at the same time lay the founda-
tion for a dispute with the other nations so diffi-
cult to be Bitjusied, that, on the grouod of policy,
they would never adopt the measure. But, at any '
rale, the present article was reciprocal, because
Great Britain was equally restr&hied in the exer^
ciae of this power. But it had been said that it was
unequal because they are creditors to us, and we
ot to them in equal amount. It ought, how-
to be considered that this article operates &-
ily to us in this reelect. The restraint on
the confisca^on of debts gives them such security
that they will give lu credit on more favorable
and liberal terms ; and, in the present ^tate of
things, all agreed that credit was advantageous for
this country. He therefore thought it could be
no objection to the Treaty to restrain the exercise
of a power which can never be exercised coyswt-
-it with sound policy.
Very little could be said with respect to contrv
band articles. The Law of Nations had notaet-
tled what articles were contrabsad. Different
Treaties itipBlaled differently on that head. He
willing to allow that there was, a difiereace
ler the English ports. Why did not gentlemen,
"■ - -" " ■ ' ■*■ ? Ye' ■■
[ unanimonsly. He left sei
, therefore, whether this obie
founded.
then, object
MC^pieJ unanimonsi
the Spanish Treaty? 1
___,, monsly. He left sentlemer
termine, therefore, whether this objeclioo v
Another strong objection to the British Treaty
WJB founded npon the article doing away the
Kwn of sequestration in either country. H '
ved DO real objection could lie against this
die j because it <Hily forbade the doing of a thing
which would prove arealeviL Though he believed
jaquMtration to becoatrary to the Law of Nations,
yet he would not aomatdM it on that gtoiuid,
r, but merely on the priit-
in this respect between tbe Treaty with Spain
and that with Great Britain- Bit as this alwavs
must depend on the agreement of nations, it cooU
weil-gromided objection to this article.
It had been said that the aiti^e with reqtect to
provisions contained a new principle with respeet
to the Law of Nations unfavorable to this country.
If gentlemen would attend to the article, they
would see that this charge was unfounded. The
whole of the article, he said, went to adopt this
principle: that such articles only should becoa-
traband as the Law of Nations deemed- to be sg,
and when provisions were carried into their ports
which were ooatraband, the; should be paid for,
elltiwing a reasonable mercantile prtdt thereon,
instead of beine confiscated according to the Law
of Nations. Bo far from being objectionable,
therefiKe, he thouf^t the article a very good one.
The new principle iatroduced tqterated diiectlyia
So with respect to the article of neutral reaiels
making neutral goods. Noticing more was neces-
sary to be said upon this article than that it was
the Law (rfNations^and the British were not wil-
ling to alter it. And what reasonable chai^
could be brought against them on aocount of this
unwillingness 1 Besides, it was a matter ofua-
certainty whether we should have any greater ad-
vantage by such a change than we should have
by keeping the article in its present form.
It was made a airioui obi eel ion -by the gentle-
man from Peimsylvania, [Mr. SwanwioK.] that
there was a contradiction between the English
and Spanish Treaties. This eoattadiction, he
Mid, WB* in the article of cootnbaitd goods. Cei-
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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Exeeutio* of Britith TVvaty.
[AFU^17M.
trn'm article*, he said, "were made contrabaoil in ihe
former wbich were not in the laiter, and whieb
would prevent bim fram Kiviog it his rote. He
irubed tokaow wherein this coatndictioa coB'
■iaiedl There was 8 diffprenco, it was tmej but
be could not see with what propriety that difier-
ence could be termed. a contradiction, because
both Treaties were capable of being carried into
effect without clashing with each other. To be
COD trad ictory, the two TrMti^s should require
coDtradiciorf acts to be done by the nation. Sup-
pose the Spanish Treaty had contracted with tbe
United States that no British resielsshould enter
the Mississippi- and they had contracted in the
British Treaty that they should have full liberty
to narigate that river, the one Treaty could not
be carried into effect without breaking the other j
but whilst both could be csrTied into effect, they
«ould not be deemed cODlradictory. Thus it vroald
appear that the Treaty had made no alteration
with respect to the Laws of Nations, but in
Iain cases to moderate their rigor andiender them
more beneficial to us.
Mr. Swift said he had made these few remarks
on the subject before them aa they had weight
ii[>DD bis mind. He did not beliere taere was any
thing in tbe Tresty iojurioas to the interesu or
honor of the United States, but, on the contrary,
Ihat there were a number of regulations which
would be considarably ben^cial to the country.
But he did not think they were to be influenced
by iogCDlous ar^nments on tbe occasion lo pro-
Tide the Legislalire means of carrying the Treaty
into effect. It presented itself in a iorm to them
which called for their af^eement and adoption
with irresistible force. They ought to consider
what will be the consequence if they make the
aeeessary appropriaiioas for carrying the Treaty
into effect, and what will be the prubtUe result if
<heT refuse.
He would ask what miaehief would arise by
(heir adoption of the Treaty before them 7 Oot
JBdependence or JiberiTj said be, would be seenre.
The British potts, which are of the first conse-
OtKDce to this country, wouM be given up to us.
The Tclne of these poets was incalculable with
respect to the Beltlement of the Western country.
Our merchants would have recompense made to
them for tbe spoliations committed upon their
property in ifae West indies, wbich, if not made
good by the British, must be paid by us. An ad-
vantage interesting to commerce, ny permission
to trade lo the £a-<t Indies, upon the same terms
with their flwn ships, and no difference in other
ports. The consequence must be, that this coun-
try will continue to flourish and be happy.
But let us consider, aid be, what will be the
•rent, if the Treaty should be rejected. We shall
lose tiie British posts; we shall lose all compensa-
tioit for spotialionB in the West Indies. He would
not pretend to say that the British natioa would
Eroceed to iiDmediate hoetiliiies againit them )
ut be was of a difiereni opinion from the gentle-
man from Vinginia, [Mr. MadibohJ that th'e only
consequence would be a renewal ol' peaceable ue-
Sotlaticm. . He was willing to ■ppeal to all the
He was of opinion- that the J
United Slates wonld not proceed to ibrther nego-
tiation. Indeed, where could be found a Miniiilcir
who would cross the water «pon such a businessT
What would be the feeliogs of ibat proud and im-
perious nation 1 Would she receive these pro-
ceedings with calmness'? No; she would treat
them with indignation and contempt,and for years
to come, be was of opinion, no Treaty could be
obtained.
But would the matter stop here? We know
Tery well, said he, from their past conduct, that
they would be committing acts wbich wonld b«
unjustifoble against us. We may expect, eaid
he, spoliations upon our ships, and impressments
of our seamen: The Indian war would be rekindled
on our frontiers. They wonld be continually pro-
voking as, and he did not think tbe period far div
taut, when, from going on from insult, they should
come to a state of war.
Some gentlemen have thrown out an idea that
Britain would not proceed to war against us, be-
cause contrary lo her interest ; but it was well
known from the whole conduct of that nation
that they were far from dreading a war with us.
At a time when we were discussing commercial
regulations, which were to operate upon tbeit
fears to engage in a war with us, it was a &ct
that they were meditatin|[ war against this cooD-
try. Even now, at this time, the capture of res-
tels, and the impressment of out seamen, not only
evidence that they do not fear to make war upon
us; but, if Ihe Treaty »hcnld be rejected, the
continuance of these practices wiU [Kovoke the
retaliation and end in war.
But it had been said that the daily impiess-
menl of our seamen was sufieient reaaoo to with-
hold the appropriations. He would ask geode-
men what compensation they wonld get ax thia
injury by refusing lo execute tbe Trentyl None.
But, if they executed the Treaty, the door would
be open to procure redress br any grievance
which we had snstained in as effectual a manner
if we rejected the Treaty.
The geoileman from Vi^nia [Hr. MAniaonJ
had reminded the House that tbe Pbebidb>t had
hesitated to sign the Treaty. He should wish to
r how he knew the fact f And how he could
presume to say, that if the Treaty was now to be
atified, he would refuse to sign it. It seemed
■xtraordiniry that that highly respected character
should be thus brought into view. He believed
that they had the most unequivocal proof that iha
PnEsioENT wished the Treaty to be carried into
eSecI ; and he thougbt thay had no ground upoa
which to insinnate the coDirary.
r. S. concluded with observing that they were
upon the most important and interesting question
that was ever dlscnssed in that House. He felt a
solicitude and anxiety about its deter mi nation
that he never felt before on any occasion ; for he
believed on ibe decision depended peace or war,
and the happiness or misery of millions !
When Mr. SvtrT ooncladed his remarks, the
Committee rose, aad had leave to ut again.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Exeaitim <4 BritM Treaty.
ApiiL, 1796.J
[H.ofR,
MbMDAT, April Is.
Mr. Baldwin presented a biUfor fixing the
Hililary EsUblishmeDt of the Uaited Slates^ Wbich
ms twice read, and referred to a Committee of
the Whole on Tuesday.
Hr. HiLLBOCBE presented bilb for carrring into
effect the Treaties with Spain and witn certain
Indian tribes, which were twice read, and com-
mitted to a Committee of the Whole
e,
KIDNAPPmO NEQROBa
Mr. Oalijitin said the member from the State
of Dela'ware being %o much indisposed as not to
be able to attend the House, had requested him to
represent that the Legislature of that State had
talien measures to prevent the future kidnapping
of negroei and mulattoes, and that they wished
Congress to make prorision on the snlject. He
beliered it would be best to faring the business be*
fore the 3Iouse by way of resolution. Me there-
fore proposed one to the following effect:
" Raoletd, That the Committee of Commerce and
Manufecturei be instracted to inquire into the pro-
riety of making eflecto^ pnmtioo: fin- pnienting the
idnippiiig of negroes and mulattoei, and of canying
ihem from their icspeuliie States contrary to the laws
of the nid StatM."
The resolution wa? agreed to.
BHrriBH SPOLIATIONS. i
Mr. W. Skitb presented a petition from san-
dry_ merchants of Charleston, praying for such
assistance on account of the spoliations committed
npon their property by the British in the West
Indies, by loan or otherwise, as Congress Hhall
judge proper. Referred to the Committee of the
Whole on the sUte of the Uoion.
TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The House then restdved itielf into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on the state of the Union ; when
the resolution for carrying the British Treaty into
effect being under consideralioD —
Mr. QiLEB said it was much to be regretted that
all the information which could throw tight upon
the subject of discussion should not be before the
Committee. Aaense of tesponaibilityarisingfrom
the peculiarly delicate nature of the question had
induced the House to take ayery step with more
than a eommon degree of caotion. Before they
proceeded to deliberate upon the expediency or
inexpediency of proTidtng for carrying the Treaty
into effect, tney made a request to the pRESinEirr
for the papers which attended the negotiation.
This request has been refused ; not because the
call itself contained any thine unconstitolional ;
not because the contents of the papers called for
were of such a nature as to render the disclosure
thereof at this time improper. Neither of these
causes bein^ intimated in the Mesage, hut be-
eaust: principles were advocated by individual
gentlemen in the course of the arRUmeni inducing
the call which the PnEBioEHT. thought not war-
ranted by the ConMiluiion. Mr. G. said, he did
not propose to nnimadvert upon the conductor
the Executive in departing from the resotaiion
itself, and in noticing the arguments of indiridnat
members, nor npon any other pert of the proceed-
ings of the Ekecutlve relative to the call of the'
House and his refusal. He only meant to remarL
that being perfectly convinced of the propriety* of
the call itself, of tbe utility of the information em>
braced by it, and not beioff satisfied by the ar^u-
meots of the Prebideht of the propriety of with-
holding the pei^ersealled'for, he shouldhavebeen
willing to hare suspended ill Airtber proceeding
respecting the provision for the Treaty until the
Kpers should he laid before theHouse. He would
ve firmly placed himself on that ground, end
in that position hazarded his responstbility. The
extreme sensibility excited on the public mind by
the agitation of the Treaty i^estion, he had sup-
posed, would have furnished an irresistible argu-
ment in favor of complying with the request of
the House, provided no tnconrenience wonld have
attended toe disclosure; and in his opinion, un-
der all the circumstances of the case, the House
.would have been completely justified in suspend-
ing all further proeeeding tipon the question of
providing for the Treaty until they received that
information which, t^ey deemed necessary to
guide their deliberations. But as the House had
thought proper to take a different course, and had
proceeded to the consideration of the question,
with such lights as Ihey possess, he would explain
the motives which would probably finally inBu-
ecce his vote.
Mr. G. said, he shoald discuss the subject in
two points of view. He would first exarame the
contents of- the Treaty Itself, and then the pro-
bable consequences of refusing or of giving it effi-
In examining the contents of the' instrument it-
self, he proposed to go throilgh it article by article,
unless tlie task prescribed to himself should ex-
ceed the bounds usually allowed to members for
the delivery of their sentiments. He should do
this, because he wished to treat the subject vrith
the utmost candor, and to avoid any possible im-
putation of intending to exhibit the tad and avoid
the good parts of the Treaty, if any such there
were. Hemeant,however. to state merely the pur-
port of many of the articles, 'without any animad-
version, and to dwell only tipon such as appeared
to him the most material.
The first object of the negotiation respected the
inexecutioo of the Treaty of Peace.
The preamble professes to waive the respective
complaints and pretensions of the parties as to the
inexecution of the former Treaty, and of course
establishes a fffiociole, as the basis of the present
Treaty, that either Wh parties were equally cul-
pable or equally blameless, in respect to tne in-
execution of the Treaty of Peace. He did not
mean to remark npon the propriety or improfirieiy
of this admission on the part of the United States.
He would observe, however, and he thought with
great force, that rile Ktipulatirma in the present
Treaty do not correspond with the principle pro-
fecsed as its basis.
On the pirt of Qreat Britain, two articles had
been ttnexecnted : The restoration of certain pro-
.dbyGoogle
HfiSTCHIT OF CX)]!IG«f)Sa
H.orR.]
EMeutian of BritM Tfeatf.
[A^al^ 17W.
party in pocMwion of the Biitiati M the close of
the wu, and the (urrender of the WeaCern posts.
On (he pait of the United States, one article was
soggeaied to remain unfalGUed ; it respeoted the
jvomise that no legal impediment ahonld be
thrown in the way to the recorery lA debu due
to Brilisb subjects.
The claim of oompentation for the property
carried away in coniraTeDtibQ of the Treaty of
Peace is «b<dly abandcwed, and the valiie of the
surrender of the 'posts Tery much lessened by tbe
annexaiipn of condition* which made no part of
the stipulationa of smtendn in the Treaty of
Peaee. TbetUniled States are more than bound
to fulfil the article heietofore unfnlfllled by them i
for, instead of coDtinning the Courts opva for the
recoTeiy of debts ia the usual way, as was the
promise in the Treaty of Peace, they are made to
assume the payment of all debts, interests^ and
damages, in eae^i of iasolrencies, and a mode of
adiustmeni is proposed for ascertai nine the amount
which furnishes the greatest latitiuM for frauds
' "' ites which could be devi*-
1 ihe fniure examination
of the subject. Hence it is obvious that the sti-
polatioBs of the Treaty abandoned the very prin-
oipte of adjoUment assumed by a gentleman tram
Connecticut, [Mr. Swipr.] In replying to a re-
mark to this effect, made br a gentleman from
Virginia, he ob^erred, that he Selieredif an inquiry
were made into the drat breach ol the Treaty of
Peace, it would not issue favorable to the United
8latea,and proceeded toargueupon the presump-
tion that the first breach was properly impntable
to the Uuited Staf^i. Hr. G. remarked, that
(faoughl it required very strong assurances to ji
(ify as imputation of that sort against the United
States, such as be believed the present occasion
did not afford. In the first place, he observed,
that the Treaty itself disavowed the tmpniaiioo j
all claims and pretensions arising from the first
breach ate disclaimed, of course he thouebt it
unnecessary, if not improper, to defend the Treaty
on a ground disclaimed hv itself.
Bat upon whatground does the gentleman place
bis admission of &t first breach of the Treaty of
Peace npon the United States 1 The gentleman
denies the uniform oonatrtietion pat upon the ar-
ticle for the restoration of certain property which
was carried away from the Unit«l States ' ''
close of the war ; and asserts thai the article
was intended to bear that oonstrnction. If the
gentleman could establish his assertion, and ex-
tend it to the other article unfulfilled by Great
Britain, he mishl probably establish hi& position.
Mr. Q. wouU first premise, tliat if the article
did not intend the restoration of property men-
tioned in it, the insertion of it in the Treaty wi^
not only nneeoeasary, but mischievous, as it would
necessarily produce embarrassment to the parties
to the '
if the war: and in the possession of the
British at the end of it, it was worse than non-
sense. It never could have been supposed thaL
upon the first dawn of peaoe, the British woula
have left New York and invaded the Southern
country, for the purpose of plundering the intka-
faitajits of their negroes. The peace article itself
— a suEGcient security again rI tbis conduct, and
.. .jiurse no specific provision could hare been
necessary for that purpose. 'This w»s not only
the unilorm oonstrucaon of the article by the
United States, but, as he always understood and
believed, Qreat Britain had acquiesced in the con-
uction until the negotiation of the presentTrea-
As an evidence of these facts, Mr. Q. ob-
ved, that American Commissf
war, was at New York; the negroes, which
stituted the species of property in questioa, were
in the Southern States ; so that if the article did
not include that species of property taken in Ihe
British commander ; that the list was entered upon
the files of Congress ; that there were resolutions
of Congress claiming eompensatioa for the pro-
pertjr carried away in contravention of that arti-
cle m Ihe Treaty of Peace, perhaps without even
the intimation of a doubt as to the coostrnction ;
that, during the administTalion of Lord Caermsr-
tbcD, he had always understood that the claim of
compensation for property carried away, was ad-
mitted, whenever British subjects were indemni-
fied for the debts due to tbem from citiiens of the
United States. Batherebebad to regret the want
of the paners called for by this Hanse,as they con-
tained all the evideoce upon which ibis import'
ant fact depends. Hence it appears that Great
Britain herself hod yielded her assent to this coa-
EtructioD, aod ought not to have been permitted to
have withdrawn it aftetwjrds. These circum-
stances seemed to him to be conclusive, and inge-
nuity itself would pause for arguments against
facts so stubborn and irresistible.
The gentleman from Connecticut bad said, that
he thought the present Treaty as good a one aa
the Umted States had any ri^ht to expect. If
the United States were as flagitious with respect
to the ineiecntion of the Treaty of Peace as the
f:eDtleman supposes, and Greet Britain as blame-
eis, be would acknowledge that the mode of ad-
justment had inflicted upon them a just punish-
ment for their criminal conduct. This, however,
was but a negative compliment to the Tmiy,
and could be gratifying only to those who con-
curred with the eentleman in the impoiatioB
thrown upon the United States. Bat it could af-
ford no eoDmlatioa to those who contend that
Great Britain has been at iea^t as culpable as the
United Slates, and particularly when they reflect
the present Treaty itself professes ts disavow the
imputation.
But if even the imputation is conceded, it would
have been thought but reasonable to confine the
punishment to the new adjustraeni of the ar-
ticles nnfolfiUed, without extending it to a train
of fanmilialing and imperious commercial conces-
sion^ which are altogether unconnected with the
subject, and not warranted by necessity.
Mr. G. then proceeded 10 the examination of
the article* of the Treaty. The fini article, be
.dbyGoogle
1039
HmT(»Hr OF CONGKE88.
Awm,179&]
Sjncvtion t^ Brituh Trtatg.
f H- or B.
Mid, 1
I declaratoi
ratorv of f
race, Ac, between ibe
o eoOntrtM, whiehj he nid, WM « very deiira-
Ue thing, provided ir could -be established upon
principles compsiible with the nKtioDaJ honor ud
the QStiooal iotereib. 'The leeond and tbird-ar-
licles- contained the icipulalions foi the Burrender
of the Weitern posts, and the oonditiona aocoin-
panf iti( the surrender.
The surrender of the Western posts, he said,
would be ao exiremelfdnirable object, if oon-
fortaable with the Treatf of Paaee, and it were
unattended with any cottditions.
Here, he widj he was desirous of giring credit
to eTerjr part of the instrument wbioh would ad-
mit of It, and was not disposed to exa^erate its
imperTectiout He was willing id adout that the
surrender of tbe posL^ even with the conditions
annexed, was of some Importanee ; but he would
assert that the surrender foit a ^reac portion of its
value to the United Slates, in consequence of the
oondftiona attached to It. He observed, two ob-
{'ectsofprimarjr importance were to be effected
ly the unqualified surrender of the posts. The
one was to obtain the infiuenee over tbe Indians
in their ne^hbocbood, which tbe British now
possessed. The othei, the participation, at lea»l,
in the fur trade earned on with those IndiaHii.
The conditions accompanying the saraender, will.
in his opinion, very much impede tbe ontv ana
completely defeat ike other object.
Tne ilipulatioa in ibe second article^ which au-
thorizes Britidh subjects who are now living with-
in the precinca or jurisdiction of the posts, still
to coBlinoe anid to reside there, with the free use
of their property; and to elect either to remain
British Butgeets or to become American citizens
at pleasure, will, in hia opinion, very much im-
pede, if not wholly obstruct, the salutary influence
of the United Slates -over the numerous tribes of
Indians in that quarter ) which is one great ob-
¥el hoped for from the possession of those posts.
he effects of the stipulation will appear more
obvious, wb en it is compared with the siipula-
Qthe next article, by which the trade with
tbe Indians is regulated. The second object, to
wit, the parlicipation in the fur trade, ho beli
would be completely defeated by the regulati
that trade in the third article ; that article siipu-
latei an eonality of duties .between American
citizens and British subjeets, a free eommunice-
tioa tbrgugh that country, upon an equality of
portage* and ferriagea. These eooditiona, in his
opinion, wonld Mcnre a com|^ete monopoly of the
fur trmoe to Oreat Britain ; because the superiority
of the British capital employed in thai trade, and
the inr«riorit]r of duties paid upon mods import-
ed for that trade into Canada, woula, in his judg-
■neat, irhoUy exclude Atnerican -■*——- '-— - -
nited States. Tbe United States bad
mode left to oounterecc Ibis monopoly but by
svstem of drawbacks, which appeared tobim, from
tne uature and trade of the country, to be almost
impracticable i or if not absolutely impracticaMe,
it would compel ut to purchase the trade at a
price greater t&aa it wu worth. It appeared to
that Great Britain had fofeaeen theae ooosft-
qUences, and that t bese ar ticlei areas well calcukied
to produce them, and to obstruct the views of the
United Slate^ as sagacity itself could have d*-
vised. Heneeitappearstohimthatthevalueofaa
uDqualifiedsurreDder of the poets is very much )e^
sened by the accompanying conditions. Tbe gen-
tleman from Cooneelicnt observed, that the sur-
render of Ibe posts was absolute, and that no
conditions were annexed to it It is a sufficient
ly, that his obeervation is a mere ei
ticijm upon terms. If they be not oonditioas ol
the United Statea,
The fourth and fifth articles related merely t»
tbe ascertainmeBt of the boundary line, and,
therefore, he should pass over them without oob>-
Tbe sixth artide was, in Itia judgment, hi{^y
objectionable! This artlete aasumea the payment
of all debia, interesta, and damages, due from Am»-
riean eitinna to British anbjeott previous to the
Revolution, in alt eases where insolvencies have
ensued, and where legal impediments to the r»>
covery of the debta have existed. He would i^
mark, that this was an assumption of debt by the
public, which they did not owe, and never two-
mited to pay and that it is betteri^ the conditiui
of the British creditor under the Treaty of Peace,
without any obligation on the United States to
do so. He S4id that, as amoagtt the fasbionaUe
calumnies of the day, this strtii^le had been a fer-
tile source of misrepresentation against the Slate
he had the honor to represent, he was anxious to
place this subject in its true light ; and, as he wo-
fessed to be well acquainted with it, he hoped to
be indulged with some minnUK of explsaatioa.-
He xaid, this subject presented two aspects to the
public i the one, as it respected SiBtea, tbe other,
as it respected ibe individuab of the United
States. As to ibe first, he admitted that if a greater
proportion of debts of this description were due
from Virginia than from other States, which had
DOt, however, been ascertained, and which he
doubled, in the same proportion, as a- State, Vir-
ginia would receive an advantage over tbe rest of
tbe States, by a common assumption of the debts;
but as it respected the individuals of that Slate
who vrere not debtors, they stood precisely on the
same footing with individuals in ether States, be-
cause they were, in eommon with others, to oon-
iribuie to tbe payment of debts which tbey neT«i .
owed. It is oi very little consc^tion to them that
they live in the neighborhood of thoee whose
debts they are to contribute to piy; for prop iit-
quily or distaace can make no difierence in the
.state of interest between the individaals who do
not owe, but who are to contribute to pay. As
a very small proportion of the inhabitants of Vir-
ginia come under this deseription of debtor^
the phenomenon of an opposition of that State,
to this particular article, is tbua explained.
It is to be remarked, that this article contains
no limits as to the amount of debts assumed by it,
nor are there any piecise data famished for oaW-
yGoogle
fflSTOay OF CONGRESS.
rlLJ
ExecutwA' of Brituh lYtaty.
[APHti.,179(t.
latioD. But it hubeea Midj that if the debts be
(file, they ought to be- paid, be the imouDl what it
may. He nid, that seDtleioeii ihoahl reflect,
that the amoant would depeoit rerf much upon
tbe mode of^djuttment, and that the mode adopt-
ed by the Treaty was the most objectionable that
could be devised.
He obserred, that the principle establiBhed for
the adjunlment of the debti, iastead ofpreierriQg
the coaflictiog interests of debtor and arediior,
would produce a complete union of ioterrHtii ; and
of course would furnish the err atext tens pta lions
to frauds against the United States from both
debtor and creditor- Hence ibe amount of debts
assumed by the United Slates would probably be
greatly increated beyond frbat would be the
■mount, if the debtor and creditor shoold be left
(o the ordinary course of judicial proceedings to
adjust their own differences, under the principle
of opposing interests. To entitle the oredivor to
a claim upon the United States, it is necessary Ibr
him first toestablish his demand against bis debtor,
and then to show that bis debtor was aolrent at
the commencement of the late war, and has since
become insolrent ; and that some legal impedi-
ment had intervened to prevent the recovery of
the debt. Hence it becomes the interest of both
debtor and creditor to establish these facts, be-
cause the debtor will be relieved from his debt,
individual to the United States, which he
in all cases, prefer, particularly as the assist
the debtor will often become necessary to I'acili-
tate the establishment of the debt. This, he said,
was the natural operation of the union of interext
iroduced by the assumption of the debts by the
Jnited States, and there was more danger to be
Cprehended from it, from the impossibility of
ecking it, by any vigilance on the part of Ibe
United States and from the peculiar circum-
stances attending those debts.
The greatest proportion of debts retnaining un-
paid, he believed, stood upon open accounts. In
many cases, when the debts were efidenced by
specialties, payments had been obtained, either
by the usual course of judicial process, or by com-
proDiise between the parties. There were two
ciieuni stances attending the open accounts which
would give grAt scope to the frauduleat combi-
nations between the debtor and creditor. The one
reitpeaied the evidence, the other the substantial
causes of difiierence in iheaccounts of the creditor
and debtor. In the reign of George the II. an act
was passed for the more easy recovery of debts
due to His Majesty's subjects f>om His Majesty's
plantaiionB in America. This act authorized the
merchant in Great Britain to astablish his debt
against a colonist by affidavits taken before the
commencement of the suit, and authentioateil in
the usual mode. This deprived (he defendant o(
all opportunity of cross examir.ation, so essential
to the discovery of truth, and the jury of all know-
ledge of the character and credibility of the dc-
In Virginia, the affidavits taken in pursuance
pri
Uj
of this act, have been deemed incompetent to
^the establishment of the debt, because the act
itself destroys the very nature and properties of
evidence. Hence, in all disputed claims founded
upon this act, judffnientE hive been rendered fM
the defendants. If this sboatd be deemed a le^
impeditnent to the recovery, this whole descrip-
tion of debts would probably come under the de-
scription of debts assumed. He observed, that ibe
words used in the Treaty were calculated, in his
opinion, with a view to this construction, and
must have been dictated by persons better inform-
ed of the nature of this business than he {veaumed
the EavOy Extraordinary of the United States
conid have been.
The words alluded to are the folltrwing:
"The said GommuBODeis, in Biunioing tha compIaintB
snd applications so prefened to lliem, are empoweted
and required, in puraoanc^i of the tme ijitent ind ntean^
ing of this article, to lake into their consideration ell
claims, nhelher of principal or interest, or bslancei of
principal end interest, and to deterinine Ibe auDS, re-
spectivelj, according to the merit* of the several cases,
due re^rd boiog had to all tbe circumstances theieoC
and as equity and Justice shall appear to them to re-
quire. And the aaid Commiauonera abiU have power
to eiamica all sncfa peroons as shall come before them,
on oath or sffimiabon, touching the premiaea ; and,
oho, 'to receive in evidence, according •■ Ihey may think
roost conaistent wHli «qni^ and jostioe, all written da-
poaitions, or booka, or pqwn, or copies or eitracU
thereof, every mch dapos^on, book, or paper, or co^
or eitrect, being duly anlhanticated, tutber sMonling
to the legal foims now, respectively, exiating in (be
two eountriea, or in sach other manner aa the said C<Hik-
miiiioners shall aee caoM to requirti or allow."
The other circumstances arose from the natnre
of the remittances. These were geneiail]' m;ide
in tobacco. The sales of this article were intrusl-
cd solely to tbe merchant residing in Great Bri-
tain, and the American shipper had no check
whatever upon the merchant making the sale.
Upon tendering these accounts^ the tobacco is
often set down at a price very iirerior to the ave-
rage price of that article in BDrope,ai the time of
making the sale. A great numbn of controver-
sies have taken place upon this ground, which
remain unsettled; but, if the United Stales should
assume the debts of the individuals thus circum-
stanced, they would have no inducement to con-
test these accounts in a course of judicial pro-
ceedings, and the promise of exoneration front
the creditor, will ollen induce the debtor to fi-
cililate the establishment of the claims against
the United States. He said he bad not overlook-
ed the clause in this article of the Treaty, whicb
compels an assignment of the claim from the cre-
ditor tu the United States, hut that would have
little or no operation to check the practice invited
liy this article, because the debtor is presumed
to be insolvent before the assignment is made,
nnd he believed the United Stales would be but
unsuccessful collectors from Insolvent debtors.
Krom these c I re um stances, he concluded, that
this assumption of debt, without any obligation
for 50 doing, was extremely improper, particularly
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
APBim796.]
ExeaitiM of BrittA Treaty.
[H.OFR.
when it i* recoUecled that this article sweeps
awar all "<:■■ of limit&tioD, and relates to the,
whole eitensive tctae ot buiioess carried dd in
the Uoiied Stales, Irom the extr«mea of New
Hampshire to thp eitremesof Georgia, for an un-
fisuipd lime before the Bevolution. He observed,
if he were to make a cuaieciure as to the amount,
it would be a loose one ; but if he were to choose
between indemaiGcatioa to the American mei^
dkaats for receot spoiiatioos committed upoa their
commerce, oi the payment of ihes: oebls, he
sbouldDotiie&itatetopreferthefirstalteraatiTe; be-
cause, to that there were koown limiu; to the other
there were not, aor any data for calcuLaticm under
the mode of ad jtutme at prescribed by the Treaty.
He, therefore, caQtiaoed gentlemen aKainst the
assumption of this anascetiained debt, for he be-
lieved it would be attended with a reiponaibility
which they could not answer to their eoastituents,
DCS would the responsibility be alleviated by the
recollection of the merits of the individuals for
whose benefit it is made. The increase of the
debt of the United States by these artificial means,
without any obligation to do sn, he thooght high-
ly objectionable.
The7ih article of the Treaty promises compen-
sation for the spdiations eommitted upon Ameri-
can commerce, in the course of the present war.
This would be a very desirable objeet, if it could
be obtained, but, when he observed that before
compenaatifHi was to be obtained, a process was
to be had at the Admiralty Courts of Great Bri-
tain,and that theamoiintwoulddepead very much
upon th« temper of those Courts, ne doubted very
much whether this boasted article would not be
dwindled down into very little importance. He
xhanld only obiieTve furuier, that the merchints,
for wboee benefit thisariicle was more immediate-
ly intended, and who had petitioned Congress to
nuke provisioD for carrying the Treatv intoefiect,
teemed not to rely ioiplicittf upon toe prarision
upoD this subject ; because, in every memorial,
they bnd belli up the expectation of ultimate indem-
nifieatton from the United States.
The 8th article pointed out the mode of paying
(ke CommiMionec to be appointed under the
Tr^ty, lo which he had no objection.
"The phraseolosy of the 9th article was soroe-
irhat CDiioQS, and the object he could not perfect-
ly understand. It is ia the following words :
" It is speed fliat the Britiih (ubjcMi who now hold
laiwls in the Tecritotte of the United Btatei, and Admi-
ican citiieiu who now hold Istidi in the dominions trf'
Hia Majen^, shall eoniinaa to bold them sccording to
the natnta and tenon of their respeetiTe .eatateB
tides thmin ; and nay grant, aeU, or dsrwa, the
to whom tbey please, in like manner as if thej were
natives; and that neilher they ni» their heinaisiaigiui
■ball, so br SI maj respect the raid lands and the l^i
remsdias inetdenl thereto, be rejtuded as slisn*.*'
If it be the object of this article to vary the <'j
istin^ lavrs upon the subject of landed eslHlea. i
is wholly improper. If not, it is wholly unneces-
sary. T^^ did not know how far this article miaht
aSe«l ibe proprieiaty estates. U ii be intended to
«▼« any new impulse to those eatales, it might be
4th Coji — 34
iltended with serloas effects. Pennsylvania waa
the^nly State which bad regularly extinguished
the proprietary claim. If a uiijtnde of construc-
tioD should be given to this article, it might ma-
terially aSeei the Slates of Delaware, North Car-
olina, and Virginia. He would not pretend to say
that It would bear the iaterpretalion be bad hint-
ed at, but as an individual he would rather it had
en omitted. He (uriher observed, thai there w«s
'emblance of reciprocity assumed by this article |
but no reciprocity in fact.
The 10th article, be said, was of a verv extraor-
dinary complexion. It was remaikable, both.as to
themalter it contained^ and the manner in which it
was expressed. It is m the following words:
Neitlisr the debts doe from individailj of the one
on to individiuls of the other, nor sfasres, nor monejs
which they may bale in the putittc fimd4, or in the p^
lie or piiTste banksj shsll ever in any event of war, at
nstianal difleience^ be leqnestersd or eonflscsted, it b»
in; nnjnst and unpolitic that debts and engagtmants
oontiBctsd and m^s by indtvidoals bavinf reoMeiice
in each other and in their nspectivs Ehivaniment^
should ever be destroyed or impaired by — *™h*' sn-
thoii^ on Bcconnt of the nalioiud di&woas and dis-
_ _r. Q. remarked, that this article also had assnm-
ed the resemblance of reciprocity ; but no reciproci-
ty in fact.
British subjects have great snms, both in pub-
lic and private funds, in the United States. Amer-
'~>n citizens have little or no ]»opefty in public
. {K'ivate funds in Qreat Britain. Hence-the evi-
dent and sobstsntial inequality of this reciprocal
stipulation. On theotheThand,Aroerieaneitiz«ia
have a great share of propeity on the water, witk
very little naval protection, and of course subjeat
to the naval superiority of Great Britain.
If, therefore, Great Britain had stipulated, in.
case of war, that in consideration of a refusal op.
the part of the United States, to sequestrate prop-
erty of British subjects upon land, she would not
molest the property of American citizens u^n
water, there would then have been a substantial,
instead of a nominal reciprocity; as the article
now stands there is an important right conceded,
and no compensation obtained.
This article, howerer, has been hjgbly applaud-
ed by a particnlar daseripiion of persmis interest-
ed in it, in consec[uenceorthe affectation of moiali-
ty professed by it
ft has been said to be dishonest and immoral to
take the property of individuals for the purpose of
coiDpensating national wrongs. He observed, that
he could see no difference between the molality-
of taking the property of indiridnalsupon water,
and the properly of individuals upon land. The
d-.ffufcr.ee of the element could make no difier-
ence in the morality of the act. However strong-
ly, the''p'--c this moral impulse was operBtiitt'ipon
the Am-jucan Bnvo^ -rU'Lii engaged ic the con-
struction at this arncle. it bad entiretf dissipated
before he had arnved at the ii5th article j lor, in
that article, the principle of privateering js not
only admitted, but its operation inuditated ; so that,
unlev the interest of Oreal Britain is to be tho
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ed bf the morality of the 10th article most
least batanced by ihe immotality of the 25lh.
Buc, Mr. Q. remarked, that sequeitrat ion was al-
ways admitted as part or the Law of NalioDs, aDd
hence he pteaumeil it was Dot immoral under cer-
tain citcumstsnces. He said, it appeared to be the
opiniOD of some, that where the properly of an
indiridual was sequestered on account of the act
of his DBtion, that the indiridual was to antttain
the I0S&, but that was not the case. The seques-
tration itself imposei: upon the Qoverament, to
which the iadtTidsal beloDgfn, an obligation, of re-
imhursenient Hence the sequestration does not
uliiotatelf reat upon the indlvidualj but upon the
QorerBment, for whose wrong the property was
taken. This is also coaformable to the Laws of
NatioD& It was the course pursued by Oieat Bri-
tftiu for all saquestratioDsioBde during the Amer-
i«n war, and it tbe ooune which would b« pur-
Med by all naiions.
Mr. Q. Skid, that war itwif ww immoral in
noct eases; and justified, ia his opinion, only in
the can of self-i)efetice ; but if a stipulat job had '
been inseHed in this Trvaty which prohibited the
United States from declaring war, it would hare
betii justly and utriTBr»illy repiotwted. The pre-
aent ariiele prohibits the United States from re-
aortiDg to the best means not only of preveDting
war, tint the moat efficacious means of supporting
it Hence, the snirender of theri^bt was the most
unpolilic coneeasion, and is infinitely aggravated
by its being a voluntary concession ; no equiva'
lent beiag raceired In return. Mr. G. said, it wat
dishoiuirable to tiae United States because it evi-
deBoed a want of confidence in the discretion of
the coBstiluted authorities. The right of seques-
tration is adraitled to be essential to national sore-
tetgDiy t -bot, lest it shonld be indiscreetly used by
ttic UaiMd Staiea, its guardianship is transferred
to Oreat Britain. Mr. O. nid, he viewed seques-
tntioa as an extraordinary remedy, lo be resort-
cn to only on extraordinary occasions. And al-
tluragh he w«ald admit that bat fewcasea would
JMstiiy a resort to it, yet it was one of
atmmants of defence, considering our relationship
to Great Britain, and ought not therefore to have
bMQ sunejidered. He said, too, that this restraint
wss imposed upon the United States for an nn-
hmited lime, and was the more objeotionaUe, as
it was a species of legislation against the discre-
tion of legislauon.
Bnt, Mr G. said, whatever might be the difier-
eooB of opistOQ as to tLe matter of this article,
the most, partial admirer of this Treaty jnust be
T<ry unwiUing to defend the rery extraordinary
Edto; of theUnited Sutesfor the manner of ex-
pression. This was a measure proposed in the
House of RepresentaliTes, as one of the means of
■elf-proiection against British depredations. This
was a circumstance known 10 tne Enroy, yet he
not only battered away the measure, but, iu do-
ing so, branded the proposition then depending be-
fore the Hoos^of RtprewntatiTes with the terms
" impoLiiLc and unjusL" This was an unnecessary
imputation, which no Minister conld hare been
justifiable in applyini; to his Gorernment. Sup-
pose our Envoy bad msisted.and the British Min-
ister had Bpeed,thBt the order of the 6th of No-
vember for taking neutral vessels for adjudication,
wad piratical anifaught not to be renewed ? He
would not pretend to say how far the order would
justify the epithet ; But, what woald have been
the fate of a British Minister under such clrcnm-
stances? Utter di^race would have been one in-
evitable consequence ; bnt an American Minister
is not only tolerated for a similar conduct, but by
somewhoeven affeet to be Americ8iia,ap^audea.
Mr. G. remarked, in the present agitation of tbe
pobtic mind, truth seemed to be obscured bv party
trriiations, and personal partialities; bathe was
convinced, that whenever it was so fiir collected
as to take a calm review of this transactim, there
wcntld exist one nniveisal roiee of condemnalion.
The lltfa article contains a general stipulation
for the liberty of navigation and commerce be-
tween tbe two countries.
The 12th article was the first of the coxanner-
cial articles. This article is suspended; but the
want of a substitute will justify a few remarks.
Mr. Q. remarked, that he was not practically ac-
quainted with commercial detail, aitd of courM
should not go much into detail upon the eotamn-
cial articles; there were, however, some grand
prraciples which applied to commerce, as well as
to every other business or science, which would
guide nim in a few remarks upon that subject.
He observed, that the 12th articla was iatended
to reauUte the trade between the United States
and ilie British West India Islands ; so fti, there-
fore, as it permitted that trade to be carried od, it
was intended an a concession to tbe United States;
the rigid restrictions accompanying tbe conces-
sion, however, rendered it so paltry that the Se-
nate rejected the conces^on. although the Envoy
had accepted it. Bat, in wnat situation has the
rejection left the United States? Theyarenow
en^^ed in a Commercial Treaty with Great Bri-
tain, m which Ihey have surrendered almostevery
commercial advantage they bad to bestow, and
are still wholly excluded from the West India
trade. He had always understood that the West
India trade was the great object of commercial
negotiation with Great Britain, but now that is
formally retinqui^ed. It may be said, tliat for-
jher negotiations upon this subject are promiaed ;
but wbat inducement wilt Great Britain have lo
relax her Colonial regulatioDa, provided th ie Trea-
ty should be carried into etkatH She had already
witiioat this relaxation placed tbe commerce be-
tween the two countries precisely upon the Ibot-
ingihe wished; and the Uoited States have yield-
ed every comm ere Fat advantage which might have
been exchanged for that relaxation. Of^ course,
Great Britain will hare no inducement to make,
the United States have nothing to offer, for the
relaxation.
The seotleman from Connecticut [Mr, Swirr]
justified the conduct ofGreat Britain with respect
to the West Indies upon the ground of her C(^o-
nial rights. He observed that Great Britain bad a
right 10 preveol the trade to the West Indiea alto-
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of British Tnaif.
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fVlber. This ife'tni^ and she had a ri^ht to pre*
vent ibe inde to Londoa, xai the Untied States
have a right to interdict her trade.to this countrjr.
Bui,. he would a«k, if there be no relaxation of
time rights, of wbat adraatag^e i> the Treaty 7
The very object of a Commercial Treaty is a re~
ciprocal indulgence ia the eierci»e of ibeae rights,
and the peculiax dependence of thoie Islands upon
the United Stages fur their very subeistence, would
comataud a participation in that trwle, if proper-
ly used.
The resort to the United States for si^pLies U
facilitats the present operationi in the West In-
dies, is a striking evidenoe of the importance of
ibe United Stales to their existence.
It has been obGerTcd, that the Spanish Treaty
has not opened the Spani.ih Islands to the Cnited
States. Tbis is true, and it would have be«) a
desirable thing if it had efibcted this object. But
it should be recoUeoled, that the United State*
have made ao commercial concesaiona to Spain,
and that ihe Treaty does not profess to contain any
material commercial regulations.
The 13ih article contained regulatiotu for the
East India trade. This article has been held up
ai BD apology for all the commeroial defects of the
T/eaty. He did not pretend W be perfectly ac-
quainted with the nature of thLt trade; but, aa far
ai he understood the explanation of the advait-
tages of this article, he could not concur in the
result. The common remark is, that this article
secures to the United Slates a right which before
wasacourlcsy. Thiarenjark possesses so me plausi-
bility, but no substance} what Ik called courtesy,
is trade founded upon the interest of the parties.
He beliered that a courtesy in trade, the basis of
which is the interest of the parly ^ranling'il, is a
better security than forced refpUalions by Treaty,
witboui the basis of interest Tor their support.
It is admitted that the trade to the S^it Indies,
before this Treaty, was extremely lucratire, and
of course coold not be the effect of the Treaty.
But the reatriotiTe and monopolizing bandof Great
Britain ia seen to extend itself, eren to this branch
of commerce, in the prohibition of the exporta-
tion of Baat India art icileK to an European market
in American bottoms — which is a restriction
which does not now exist, and is another restric-
tion upon the citiaens of the United Stales imd-
iog tbeace. wbioh, in his opinion, will t«<Een very
much the boasted seeuiily of right under tbis ar-
ticle wheMTcr the interest of the Baat India
Coiapainr woald justify Che prohibition of that
trade. The restrieiions alluded- to are in the fol-
lowittg words :
" Neither ia Uiia aiticla to bo conatnud to allow the
citizen* of tlie said States to settle or reaida within the
•■id Territories, or to go into the inlcrioT part* thereot^
without the permisnon of the British Gavemment es-
tablished there ; and if saj tratugnanDn should be at-
tempted Bgainst the regutalions of the British Govern-
ment in this respect, the observance or the same ■ball
snd ma; be enforced against the citiaens of America in
the same manner as sgunst Briiisb subjects or othsrs
trsnsgreaaiiiK the same rule. And Ihe citnens of the
United States whenever Ibey arrive in an/ port or hai-
bor in the said. TacritDriea, or if tbeyshmldba peiait-
ted in mantiai albnnid, to go to any other place tbeio-
in, shall always be subject to the laws, government, and
jurisdiction of whatsoever nature established in such bu-
bor, port, or place, according as the same may be. The
dtiians of the United States may also touch for lefraah-
ment at the Island of Bt. Helena, but subject in all re-
spects to such regulations as the British Govenunant
may &om time to time establish there."
The I4th article relatea to the commerce and
naiigalioQ of Ihe two countries generally, and will
be passed over without remark.
The 16ih article was, in his judgment, highly
objectionable.
Thb article restrains the United State* from
imposing upon Brititih goods higfher duties, tui^
Ihan upoa those of other foreign nations. It au-
thorizes Great Britain to equalize (he existing un-
equal dutiea between the American and British
bottoms, and restrains the United Stntes from r^
viving the existing inequality. One objeclion to
this article is, that it abandons, without an eqni-
valent, the advantages resulting from the peculiar
nature of the trade carried on between the United
States and Great Britain. This trade consists, on
the part of Ihe United States^ naostly of raw ma-
terials, which employ the artisans of Britain, and
on the part of Britain, of the manufacture of arti-
saus in the most Snished state -, and, in addition,
there is always a Urge specie balance against the
United States and in favor of Great Britain. It is
calculated that the United Stales furtuah a mar-
ket for at least one-third of the whole surploa
manufactures of Great Britain, and for this the
most suitable returiks for the British market are
made. The lostfof so valuable a market could not
besuMilied in any part of the world. It would
naturally be supposed thai a trade so favorabla
would be entitled to some indulgence on the part
of the nation receiving the favor, and would com-
mand some respect to the nation afibrdioe it, pro-
vided it had energy enough to avail itself of tiie
advantage; but by this article it is nbandoned
with a nominal, but no real equivalent. Thb
consideration -is steaily strenstheoed by extend-
ing it to the peculiar nature ofihe trade between
the United Slates and the West indies, which hat
beenalready remarked upon.
Upon this ground, the discrimination in favor
of American over British bottoms^, has been built;
and the erowth of American shipping has very
consideraUy increased, in conseti^uence of this po-
licy. Our experience, therefore, is bartered away
without even the probable calculation of a coun-
ter vailing advantage.
The apoli^y made for this article, that the
Uuited Stales have granted no right to Britain
which she did not possets before, is entirely delu-
sive. It may be true that no new right of sove-
reignty is granted to Great Britain ; but ahe is
now leas at liberty to exercise s right without
hazard, by a reslriation imposed upon the United
Slates, and which she bad failed to exercise Dn-
til this restriction was imposed. It is remarkable,
from the whole complexion of the Treaty^ that
the advantage* guinea by Great Britain consist in
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HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
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SxeaiUan <^ BritUh TVetUy.
[April, 1796.
Teatrictions imposed upon the Uoited Siaf^ ■■ if
her object wva to restrain the United States in ibe
exercike of their rights of sorereigDtf .
The 16th article related 00)7 to the sppoini-
ment of Consuls, and does not require notice.
The 17th BTticle was, in his opinion, objection-
able in many respects. It yields a formal assent
to the seizure and condemnation of enemy's pro-
perty OD board of American vessels. He bad ex-
pected to have heard this article apologized for,
and not justified. But he was surprised to hear
it asserted that it was problemetical whether the
admission of this principle would be for tbead-
mntage or disadvantage of the United States.
This was throwing the article into a problem,
without attempting to solve it. It was discarding
the exercise of the reasoning faculty. From the
peeotiar siiuation of the United States in their re-
lations to the re«t of the world, the estahlishmenl
of the principle that neutral vessels shall give free-
dom lor their cargoes, is to them of primary im-
portance j of course, (he United States have sedu-
lously exerted themselves in all their foreign ne-
gotiations to have that principle formally admit-
ted as the Law of Nations. In every other Trea-
ty entered into by the United States, this princi-
ple has been carefully inserted. A formal assent
to the contrary doctrine will probably produce a
retrograde effort upon all former exertions, which
will require a great length of time to counteract.
In the relations between the United Stales and
Great Britain, the priociplc is peculiarly import-
ant. Qreat Britain possesses the most formioahle
fleet in existence, and is at least one-half her time
at war. The United States have an extended
commerce, without the protection of a fleet, and
from ber remote siiuation from Europe. 1he grea'
scene of war, as well as from the genius of thi
American people, are not likely to be involved it
European contests. Hence, the disadvantage of
the United Sutes f>om this stipulation will be ii
proportion to the greater probability of their re
maining free from war than Qreat Britain, and
in proportion to their more defenceless state o
commerce. There exists another forcible reasoi
which ought to have prevented this stipulation
its necessary operation upon the present bellige-
rent Powers.
Under this article, French goods in American
bottoms are made subject to British seizure and
condemnation; but British goods in Ai
bottoms are free from French seizure i
damnation. This was an evident partialii
Torof Brilsih asainst France, which, in
nion, could hardly he warranted by the species of
neutrality proolaimed by the Executive as the ei-
istitig slaie of the nation. It was not only a ne
trality, but an impartial neutrality. If a devi
lion from the first line of jropanial neutrality
could be in one case justifiable, he thought every
American feeling would have inclined to favor
the cause of liberty, and not the caus-' of despot-
ism.
He said, it was no apology for this article, to
say that an article upon the opposite principle
could not be obtained. Then let none be obtained.
It is lixe Asaeat to the principle which o
the disgrace, and this injury to the United States.
IfothertermscouldnoihaTe been procured, French
Croperty in American bottoms might have been
■n to the ordinary operation of the Laws of N*-
tioDS, without an explicit and inridiou< siipnla-
for its seizut* oitd condemnation,
.'he 18th article defines contraband goods.
There waa a common, but just objection, made ia
this article, to wit: that the conrraband liat was
extended, and that several articles were added,
which were never admitted before to be contra-
band. It is to be observed that all these addition-
al articles are amoh^i the exports of the United
States, while most, or perhaps all of them, are
unongst the exports of Oreat Britain. This cir-
cumstance prorea that the reciprocity assumed
by this article, isdelusive, and that the advantage
is wholly in favor of Oreat Britain. This article
contains, also, some regulations respecting the
seizure of provisions in American vessels, under
certain circumstances, which are extremely equi-
il and suspicious. He said, he presumed this
article had furnished the pretext 10 Qreat Britain
for issuing the late order for seizing American
vessels boUnd with provision* to France. He
would not pretend to say that the article justified
a construction which'might give rise to the order;
but the existence of such an order since the sign-
ing of the Treaty is universally admitted; but lie
would assert that, whether the order was to be
considered as the practical construction of this ar-
ticle, or an infraction of it, or an infraction of the
neutrality of the United States in any respect, it
might be attended with the most serious conse-
quences. If this invasion of the neutral rights it
to be. the first fVuits of the Treaty, the most
alarming results may be expected from its further
operation. The Executive of the United Slates
have declared that even the permission of this
conduct by one of the belligerent Powers is a
breach of neutrality against thf other; and, of
course, a just cause of war from the linjured na-
tion. This doctrine is so clearly established in a
letter from Mr. Jbfpbrboh, wriUen by order of
Ihe-PREBIDENT lo Mr. Pinckney, dated 7th Sep-
tember, 1793, that he would beg the iodulgeoce of
the Commiitae in reading two or three parafrapha
from the letter. It Is in the following words :
"This act, too, tendi dirscUy to draw ns fioin that
state of posM, in which vre u* widiinB to ninuii. It
is an eaenttal chuader of nentnlitj, to fiinudi no aids
(not stipulated by Treaty) to one parly, whidi wo an
not equtilj ready to Punish to the other. IT we par*
mi( com to be aent to Gret.t Britain and her friends, wo
are equally bound to perniil it to Ftsdh!. To reatrain
it, woald be a putialitj wbieh migrbt lead to war with
France, and between restraining it eursrives, and per-
mitting h«r ™eraie« to restrain it unrightfully, is no ilif-
ference. Hhe would consider this as a mere pretPTt, of
which she wojid not be the dope, and on what honor-
able ground could we otbcrwiae eiplain >t< Thua, we
could see onraelves plunged, by this unauthorized mi*
of Great Britain, into a war, with which me meddle not,
and which we wish to avoid, if justice to all parties and
from all partiea, will enable na to avoid it. In the emit
where we found ontvelves obliged, by Trtaty, to with
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ExtaUwn of Jtritish TVeoly.
hold fcata tha ^nffi— of France, tha right of inniiig in zena from enl
«ii[ poTti, w« thought oanelTeB, in. juatioe, bound to UaiCed Slatet ^
withhold the aune light from Fruice, oIm) i uid we did Poweis. But Qreat
finto foreigD
Belies equally
._ Wan wc to wi^old bum bei nippiiM of provi-
■iotu, we riioald, in like muDci, be bound to withheld,
them &om h«i enemies ajjo, and thu* shut to onteelTei
all the port! of Europe, where com ii in demand, or
make oorrelid partiei in the war. Thi* ia a dilemma
wluch Great Britain baa do right to force upon lu, and
for which no pretext can be found in any pmit of out
conduct. She may, indeed, feel tbe deiire of starving
an enemy nation ; but she can give no right o{ doing
it at onr loai, nor of maUng ni the imtnunent of it."
After thii uneqniTocal declaffttion nude bjr the
Ezecucive of the United States, whfit jiIm could
be made to (he Frencli GoTetnment to juklify an
acquiescence ia thi* conduct gf Great Britain 1
WLetherit be tbereBoliof the conttructionoflhe
Treaty, or an infraction of it, what apology could
this House make for giring efficaejr Co tbe Treaty
before tome utisfaciory explanation was made
upon theauhjecd Supposethe Republic ofFranee
were to approach the Executive of tbe Uaited
States with this letter in ber hand, and lay, "Mere
is your own declaration of vour own neutrality ;
you hare UDkindly departed from the principles
■vowed by yourself, in faror of tny enemy. You
seem to have concurred in a scheme for distress-
ing a whole nation by withholding supplies of pro-
riaions, when a better office might have been ex-
pected from the United States." Suppose a simi-
tar appeal were to be made to this House, whilst
deliberating upon the expediency or inexpediency
of Riving e£Gcar:y to tbe new Treaty, which is
used by Oreat Britain to sanctify lier conduct ;
what reply could be made in either ease 1 Is any
gentleman who ia disposed to carry the Treaty
mto effect, prepared to give a satisfactory answer
to sojusi and 10 interesting acomplaint 7 Accord-
ing to the Tery principles avowed by the Execit-
ti re, rather than give nocause of umbrage to Oreat
Britain, wegivejustcaoseof war toFrance. Y
it has been said, that it would be dis^racefal
the nation not to give efBcacy to an instrument
containing this disgraceful concession. It ia not
sufficient to say, that the Bepublic of France will
not avail heraelf of this breach of neutrality, and
enter into hostilities against the United Stales. It
ia sufficient to sltow that the United Slates, by the
execution of this Treaty under this conKlruction,
will furnish just cause tor such a conduct ; and,
if this be not the just interpretation of the instru-
ment, no disgrace can be greater than
a Treaty with a nation at the very
ia engaged in its infraction.
The 19ih article contains some regulations re-
specting privatoers which required no comment.
The 20th article respected the punish men I of
pirates, which was not material.
The 31st article prohibits American citizens
within the
,ali foreign
not contented with
Great Britain,Bnd defines piracies. He
mark, that there is an existingf law in the United
3latei upon ibis subject, which operates equally
towards all the belligerent Powers. This act ex-
Unda no forther than to prohibit American eiti-
ihis fair and just regulation, has extended thi*
provision, so far as regards herself, beyond the li-
mits or jurisdiction of the United Slates, and en-
tirely destroys the impartiality and neutrality of
the existing legal provision. What is the operation
of this article upon the belligerent Powers 'i It is
this: AnAmerican citizen entering into theFteoch
service, out of the limits or jurisdiction' of the
United States, against Oreat Britain, is punishable.
An American citizen eolering into the British
service, under the same circumstances, is not pun- '
isbable. Besides, it is a prohibition upon Ameri-
can citizens which has never been imposed upon
the subject or citizen ot any nation, as far as he
could recollect. But the practice of entering into
foreign service has at all tiroes beeti resorted lo a*
aSbraing the best military education. When it
is recolfected that this article is to continue in
force for only two years af^er the termination of
the present European war ; tliat there is no pro-
bability of tbe United States being, during that
period, engaged in an European warj and that
this article is in no respect coouectcd with the
professed objects of negotiation; has not the sti-
pulation too much the appearance, as well as the
effect, of interfering in the present European quar-
rel, and evisciog a nartiality for (he loterests of
Great Britain, in violation of our professions of an
mpartial neutrality 1 Andean this conduct be
justified, either from the nature of the cause in
which France is engaged, or from the good offices
rendered by that great nation lo the United
Slates 1
Tbe 22d article stipulates that notice shall be
given before acts of reprisal, Sec., shall be autho-
rized by either of the contracting parties, which
was proper.
The 23d article was that in which he expected
lo have lound some proTisions for the protection
of American seamen B.gainst British impressments;
instead of this humane and salutary provision, he
found that the officers and crews of those ve^
ships of war, &^., engaged in the tmauthorized
impressments, are to be hospitably received in the
ports of the United States, and a proper respect to
be paid to those officers according to their respect-
ive ranks. Strange substitute^ his, lor the pro-
tection of American seamen ! This article is ren-
dered mote aggravating, by the practice of the
British in impressing American seamen since the
simiog of tnia very Treaty, whilst the table of the
House is almost laboring with evidence of thic
fact ; whilst the fact is not denied by any gentle-
man on this floor — in the very same breath ia
which a bill has been passed for the protection atid
relief of this valuable class of citizens, is tha
Hou^e called upon to make provisions for effecli^
ating a Treaty of Amity, &c., with the nation
committing these wrongs ! — with a nation refus-
ing to respect any evidence of protection whicit
coold be afforded to this description of citizens hj
the Qovernment of (he United States, and aa
.alarm and wonder ia excited, because the Hduh^
.d by Go Ogle
1048
HISTORY OF eONGRESa
104«
H.OPR.]
Sjxeuiim t^ Britiah TVeofy.
[Aplll^l79e.
under ihese c i re u mi t&nces, should deliberate utx>D
making the provision !
The 21th article prohibits the arming of sbip«,
by other foreien natioDs, in the ports of toe United
States and selling their prizesj aod restrains the
United Stales from Eplliog them more provisions
than would be necessary Id carry them to the next
iwrl of the nation to which they belong. Although
ne could see no propriety in these stipulations,
particularly at this time^he would pus them over
without remark.
The 25th article deserved two remarks : The
fir.ll WHS, that it accommodates Great Britti
her scheme of privateering asainst France, and
evidenced the «ame temper wiui several other ar-
liclea towards the bellicrreDI Powers, which has
been remarked upon. The other grew out of the
geDeral clause of^ reservation which it contained.
The clause he alluded to is in the followiag
words :
" Nothing in this TVeaty contaiuad ihall, howevei,
b« eonitruM or operate cootrary to tbrmer and ciining
public Treaties with othei soveraigns or Btstaa. But
the two parties agree thatwhi^ tb^ continue in amity
neither of them will in Tutare make an; Treaty thi*
■hall be inconiiatent with this or the preceding article."
From this reservation it is evident that all the
articles which affect the present bellLgereat Pow-
er*, are intended as constructive ortbe Treaty
between the Uoited States and Fiance; and the
cunstcucltoD is to made as to operate most injuri-
ously to France, and most advanta^eu^y to
Great Britain. Indeed, this construction seems
to have bound so hard upon the French Treaty,
ID the opinion of both uegotialorx, that they, proba-
bly apprehending that it might in some respect be
deemed a positive iofr%ctioDof that Treaty, thought
it necessary to insert this sovereign clause. He
■aid that the whole of the stipulations which aSeci
the present belligerent Powers were the most re-
nrehensible interferences in the Buropoan quarrel,
for the following reasons: First, they are wholly
unneces,«Bry I because they are totally disconnected
with the objects of negotiation between the two
countries, and with the usual and natural orders
of coromecce, and of course must be deemed vol-
untary on the part of the United Slates. Second,
the interest ot the United Stales could not be
coatem|}lated, because there is no probability of
their being engaged in a naval war in two year.s
after the termioaiion of the present war, at which
time these stipulntioDS are to cease; of course, the
accomraodaiion was intended for the present war.
Id which the tJnited States are not engaged, and
not for a future war in which they may be engaged-
Third, because it is a dishonorable deviation H-om
that impartial neutrality professed by the United
Stales in favor of a nation the least of all others
entitled to the accommodations of the United
Sutes, and against a nation the moat of all others
entitled to them. Fourth, il voluntarily hazards
the resentment and hostility of a nation, whioh, if
exerted, might produce to the United States thi
moat serious call
The 26th article ptovides that, in vase of war
betW«CD the two countriea, the mecchaata aad
others of aob of the tm eosatries leatdinr in
the other shall have live to lemeve with thek
effects, 4c.; wbicb was in every leapecl proper.
The 27ch anicle provides for reciprocally giving
up certain fi^itives from justice ; which was not
objectionable.
The 28Lh articie respects the time of the dura-
tion of the Treaty.
He said, that having examined the Treaty at
large, tvith candor, and with (he best judgment he
po^jtesscd, he found in it so much to condemn, and
so little to applaud, and some of the objectionable
parts were so formidable in themselves, that it
was wonderful Co him that the Treaty should have
found an advocate, upon its mere merits, in the
United States. Viewing the t^bject as he did,
and believing il bis duty to exercise hin discretion
upon it, nothing ooDiained in it could justify him
in giving his vote for the necessary provisions to
give it effioaey.
Mr. O., after apologizing for the time he had
already consumed, proceeded to consider the pro-
bable 'consequences of refusing, or giving efficacy
to the Treaty. Gentlemen in favor of making
the provision had lusgesied two cooseqaences
resulting from a refusal; of a very serious nature.
The one, what is termed by them the hostility of
departments of Government, which would neces-
sarily eventuate in a total dissolution of the Go-
varomeni itself. The other, a war with Great
Britahi. He said, that if either of these conse-
quences would result he would vote for tbe ne-
cessary provisions, although the vote would be
more against his feelings than any vote he bad
ever before given. Wtaelhei either of these con-
sequences would reiult cannot be positively ascer-
tained but by experiment. The subject, however,
like all others, was susceptible of a certain degree
of reasoning and calculation.
It should be recollected that the Honae ia now
en^ged iuihe exercise of its Constitutional rights.
It IS called upon to make provision for caTrying
into effect the British Treaty. Two things natu-
rally present tbemselves to its consideration ; the
one, the expediency of the object of expenditure
itself, for which the appropriation is required ; the
second, the ways and meansof raising the money.
It has been settled by the House, thai boch are
within tbe Constitutional discretion of (he Mouse.
The Prehideut would deprive the House of the
rightof judging of the expediency of the expendi-
ture, and limits its discretion to the ways and
means of furnishing the supplies. This poiai be-
iug previoDsty settled, be ahould nol enlarge t^ion
it. He proposed to give the history of ibe rise
and progress of the Treaty. He would be correct
as to facts, and precise a* to dates. Very sborily
after Great Britain became a party to the war
against France, the Prbmsbmt proclaimed the
United Sutes to be in a state of impartial neu-
ility. TbeProclamationwasdated82dofApril,
1793. An attempt had beea made, and was at
that time continued, to terminate the diferenoes
which subsisted betwe^ the United States aad
Great Britain, grawng out of the inexcention of
the Treaty of Peace. Thi* anempt fionA an-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONOBE8B.
Exeaaion of Britvh Treaty.
neutTBl ve«eU. Taia order, md the act* coiqinit-
ted UDder it, lerved to increaie the causes of di»-
pute between Ihe tirA countries. On the meeting
ol' CoDgress, in ibesueceedlagFalt,the Pbbsidbmt
oommuDicated to them all the Degciiaiioos which
had taken place between the two conntrieL iDti-
mated that ntvotiattoni did not promise a lator-
able issae, and that it was left with Congress to
say what fanhei was to be done. Id this critical
■ituation of afibiTS, Congress took the subject into
eooaideration. Great Britain wa«, at that time at
least, considered as the a^essing nation. The
firat measnre of self-protec lion proposed whs a re-
striction of the commerce of Great Britain with
the United Slates. This measure was objected
to, as being too strong ati a commercial meainre,
and too weak as a political one. Asfar, however,
a* a vote was taken upon it, a majority of the
House appeared in favor of that proceeding. Oo
the 6th of Noveiober. 1793, ao additional order
was issued, the purport of wnieh was, to take and
bring to legal adjudication all neutral vessels
bound to French ports. This additional >;videDce
of hostiht; gave rise to three other measures: the
one was as embargo for a limited tirae, which was
effected ; the second was the anspension of com-
mercial intercourM between the United States
and Great Britain ; the third, a sequestration, or
rather the arrestation, of debts due to British sub-
jects. The proposition for tbearrestation ot debts
was moved the 27th March; the proposition for
the suspension of intercourse, 7tb April, 1701.
On the 4th of April, 1794, the PRESinBNT laid be-
fore the House a communication from Mr. Pinck-
ney, Minister from the United States to Great
Britain, coniainiog a conversation between Mr.
Pinckney and Lord GrenviUe, of a
dinary natnre, which always appeared to him to be
the ground-work of the change which shortly
afterwards took place in the conduct of the Giecu-
tive of the United States towards the House of
Rapreseniatives. The part of the communica-
tion alluded to is in the following words:
■■Bitnct of a letter from Mr. nncknej to the Secre-
taiy of Statfl, dated iha 9th of ianiwrr, 1794—
" Lord aren<njl« answered that ths taitj rauon for
noewng them was, l«>t the present iiutnictioD, heing
a moolton of that of dM 6^ oT November, might alw
be deemed to reiohe Ibeea Btklea, which were CMUMCt-
ed with it. Hie Lordship than eiplaiBed (be aiolivas
tf hKh had indaccd Ue Govemiaent to iMoe the pieaeni
initractuin. The fint, he said, was the aincere deaiM
of the AdmiiiiBtntiMi la luNntaia the beet nndantaod-
ing end haimony with the United States. The eeoood
was, what he could not mentioD to me officially, bat
what he stiil thought it right I duiuld be apprised of,
that DO mieoonc^tion of thmr motive night be enter-
tained ; that he was aware o( the delicacv of apealung
la a fcrsign Minister coDesming the interna] atate of
his eonntry, nnther would he expect an answer from
ne on tfie subject; bnl that their second reaaoo was,
by this conduct, to take awsy every pretext fiom evil
— ot aaionB as, who, aeeoidhig to the inlelligeiice
>d racaived.wan endeavoring to ' '
1, in riioit, to reduce lu to
of France, a auahstane which he
deprecated, as wall for our sakes, as for the common
wd&ie and ttauquility of mankind. He further took
to observe, with leapect to the conduct of our
Government, in maintaining our neatrslity, that, al-
though there were some mslters with which this GSovem-
~ was not perfectly satisGed, (uid to uhich, for the
reason, they relVaincd tram giving that oppoaitlon
they thonght tht? would be juatilied in doing,) yet,
&e general tenor of the conduct of oar Govern-
, they were convinced it was their deaire to main-
I liill neutrality, which was an additional motive
for their preaent condnct."
* ' be remarked, that on the Bth Jaunarr
ation of the hostile order of the 6th No-
vember took place, and on the neil day after an
apology for the acknowledged indelicacy of inter-
fering in the internal affairs of a foreign Govern-
VeisaBs a
ha had I*
It had always been a matter of surprise to him
that the American Minister should have listened
to such a communication, and still more surprising
that it should have met with a favorable reception,
in the United States. But the fact is, that on the'
19th of April, 1794 the Chief Justice was taken
from the exercise of his Judicial duties, and nomi-
nated Envoy Extraordioary to Great Britain,
during the pendency of two of the beforemen*
tioned propoxiiions in the Hoase of Representa-
tives. The House of Bepresenft tires proceeded
to pass the bill for the smpeasion of commercial
intercourse, on the 35th of April, by an uucom-
monly lai^ majority ; and on the 27th of April
the bill was negatived by the Senate, upon the
easting vote of the Vice PaEBiDETrr. The eflect
of this vote was a discontinuance of the embargo,
and an abandonment of all the other measures
proposed for self-protection. Id these facts will
be seen the commencement of what gentlemen
call the hostility of departments, but what he
should term the due exercise of the checks pro-
vided by the Constitution ; and if it is to be
traced to this source, the House of Representa-
tives will evidently appear not to be the aggresiior.
The House viewing their measures defeated by
(he Constitutional check, acquiesced in the de-
cision widiont a murmur. Now they are told, if
the House should exercise its Constitutional check,
a dissolution of the Government would necessa-
rily ensue. This conclusion seemed to him with-
out foundation, and ought not to be brought into
calculation in estimating the present question.
The Treaty itself was concluded on the 28th Oc-
tober, 1794. It was commnnicated to this Hotise
the 1st of March, 1796, having on the same day
been promulgated by I'roclamation, declaring it
obligatory.
He remarked, that the Treaty bad ori^nated
from an iDtimalion of Lord Qrenville, which had
always excited his apprehenstcm ; it was com-
menced against the known sense of the House of
Representatives, and every step of its pro^ssion
seemed to hare bera marked with peculiar coer-
cion. When a British Minister undertakes to de-
elare that Uie motive for the reroeation of the
;d by Go Ogle
HISTORY OF CONOBKSS.
H.ora.]
Exteutum of Brituh Trtaty.
TAeKiL, 17W.
hcMtile ordei was, to taka *way every pretext
from evil-diaposed peraoai among ut, who, accord-
ing to the jntplligence he had received, were eo-
dravoting to irritate our people againEt Great Bri-
tain, ai well as to oppose the measures of onr own
QoverDment, &.C., and to assign the same reason
for Tefraining from giving that opposition to some
exceptionable measures of our Goreroment, which
he mieht otherwise have donej and when the
United States so far listened to this laoguage as
imiuedlately to enter into negotiatioa upon the
aubiect, his apprebeusions of British iaterference
ana of Briti^ influence were strongly excited,
particularly when the British Minister seems to
make a common cause between the two Govern'
ments against what he it pleased to call evil-dis-
posed persons. He would here incidentally re-
mark, that ax far as these ''evil-disposed persons"
bad produced the revocation of the hostile order
of November, and a relaxation of British hostility
in other respects, the* were certainly entitled to
applause from the United States, whatever ^i-
(bets had been bestowed upon them by a British
Minister.
He said the contents of the Treaty had very
much eonfitmed his original intentioDs. Oentle-
mind, the Treaty itself contained the evidence
(be Treaty itself corresponded with what he con
aidered the object of the British Minister in giving
the invitation to it. He found it in the following
particular iostances : Before the TteatVi the right
of laying a special as well as a general embargo
existed in the United States; the right uf laying
a special embargo upon British vei^sels is surren-
dered. Before tte Treaty, the right of aequeslra-
tion existed, and the exercise of it was proposed ;
this right, so fat as it respects Great Britain, is
forever surrendered. Before the Treaty, the right
of discriminating against British ' - '
those of other oa lions existed, an
it was proposed; this right is surrendered. Before
the Trfnty, the right of suspending commercial
intercourse with Great Britain existed, and was
poposed to be exercised ; the exercise of that right
u stipulated against for a limited time, &c. All
these are restrictions of the ezeicis« of the rights
of national sovereignty, and seemed to him com-
plete evidence of British interference.
These ciroumstances furnished two reflections.
The one was, that the British Cabinet deemed the
measures proposed to be more efficacious than
tbey have generally been represented to be in the
United States, and hence the extreme caution to
ilipulateagainst the future ezerciie of them. The
other WB3, that party sensations must have had
Seat influence upon the extraordinary Envoy of
e United States, to induce bis consent to these
great abridgement* of the rights of national sove-
reignty. The Treaty not only contains abridge-
ments of the national rights, but changes the mu-
nicipal regulations of the United States, and how
have these things been effected ? By the Kubsti-
tntion of a foreign power in the place of the House
fif Representatives. If (he Treaty-making power
be thus extensive, and if it be so absolutely obli-
gatory as to deprive the House of Representative*
□f the right of judging as to the expediency of
making provisions Tor its complete effectuation,
of what use is the House of Representative! as a
distinct branch of the Government? Will it not
be a mere formal and not an efBcient branch of
the Government ? An entire new system of jo-
rispmdenee may thu* be introduced by Treaty,
and become obligatory on the House of Repre-
sentatives— obligatory upon the nation.
He said, that whenever the question which ne-
cessarily results from the unlimited scope given
to the Treaty -ma king power, shall be presented
to the people of the United States, to wil : Shall
the House of Representatives become a formal,
or remain an efficient branch of the Gaveraroent?
they would pause before ibey would decide upon
its annihilation. He said that their love of liber-
ty, their love of their own interests would check,
for a moment, personal affections or antipathies,
party sensations, Stale jealousies would be dis-
armed, and the people would be found right in
their decision.
Even in the midst of the clamior of war aad
dbunion, which has been momentarily excited
for a particular object, the people could not be
led to such fatal extremities, as the doctrine con-
tended for would necessarily produce. Much less
would this be the ca.>e after tney shall have been
relieved from these causeless apprehensions.
If, therefore, the House should exercise a Con-
stitutional rignt of judging of the propriety of
the object of expenditure, and a refusal should
be the result of their judgment, he did not be-
lieve, that it would produce that fatal hostility of
departments which would eventuate in a total
dissolution of the Qovernmeni; but would bean
exercise of one of the salutary checks provided
in the Constitution; which, in his opinion, con-
stitutes its merit, aod not its reproach.
Mr. OiLEa then Noceeded to consider, whether
a war with Great Britain would be the probable
consequence of a refusal to make the necessary
provision for carrying the British Treaty into
effect; and he observed, that to his mind, there
did not appear to be the least ground for the
clamor which had been excited from this sug-
gestion. He said he believed that Great Briiam
would make war upon the United States when-
ever she deemed it ner interest to do ao ; and that
the Treaty would impose no restraint upon her,
if she thought her interest wootd justify thecon-
ducL He also believed, that, if there shonid be
no Treaty with Great Britain, she would not go
to war with the United States, unless her interest
would dictate the measure. In short, he believed,
that Great Britain, like all other nations, would
make her interest the criterion of her conduct in
every other question of peace or war.
If this opinion be well formed, the probability
of war may he tested by this question. Is it the
interest of Great Britam to make war apon the
United States in the relative situation of the two
countries*? Great Britain is now engaged is a
war in which the GoTernment haaud ererythiiig.
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
Exeaaitm of Brituh Treotf,
[U.arR.
She is >t this moment engaged m ui important
enterprise against Ihe French Wesi ludiea. She
is under the neceuiijr of resorlinfi; to the United
Slates for sundry supplies fur faoiTitating the en-
terprise. The United States are the best com-
mercial customer she has in the world. Under
these circumstances, what would be her ioduce-
menC for war T What would be her inducements
to avoid it 1 These quesUouii furnish their own
answers. He said that Ihe argument of w«r was
an argument of dependance. It is also an argU'
uent which nil) last forefer. If the fear ot war
is now to influence out conduct against our jud^
meots, will not the sarne argument apply with
double force two vears after the expiration of the
present war, to inauceacontinaance of the Treaty
upon its present injurious cooditioosl
Mr. G. said, that as the argument of war
was the chief instrument by which the Treaty
was pressed upon the people of tho United States,
he begged the indulgence of ihe Committee in
taking a retrospective view of the subject, and in
examining it with some miouteaess. Whatever
might fcave been his opinion at the time of re-
ceiving the infarmation of the hostile order of
the 6th of November, he was now of opinion that
at that time Great Britain did meditate war
asainst the Uoited States, although he believed
there was no danger of it at preseot.
He believed, too, thai the neutrality proclaimed
by ihe United States, did not, in the smallest de-
S'ee, influence the cooduct or disposition of Great
ritain towards the United States in regard to
war (II peace, but \!aaX the true explanation of her
disposition will be found in the course of events
in Europe. On the first of February, 1793,
France declared war against the Eiog of Eng-
land, and the Sladtholder of Holland, and on the
and the King of Prussia, Itx. A combination of
the most of the despots of Europe had previously
been formed (it is generally believed on the 31si
of July, 1791, at Pilnitz) for the purpose of crush-
ing the revolutionary spirit which nad appeared
in France. The accession of OreatBritaio, Spaio,
Holland, Portugal, and some of ibe Italian Stall
history of modern times. The most desperate
and bloody war of course, ensued, and imme-
diately succeeded 'the declaration of war against
Great Britain, a series of tnccesses look place,
which threatened the absolute subjugation of
France.
On the first of Marijh, the French sustained
considerable loss by the surprise of the vanguard
of their army on the river Roer ; on the 13th, the
rebellion of La Vendee commenced \ on the 18th
Dumourier was defeated; on the 30ih, h&aban-
doDed hL) army ) on the 3d of April his arinr re-
treated into France j on iheitL Dumourier him-
self was outlawed ; on the 13th, France made a
declaration against all interference with foreign
Governments i on the 22d'of April, the Pbesi-
DEHT iatued the Proclamation of Neutrality ; on
the 3d of May, the rebellioo of Corsica cook-
menced ; 29th, the rebellion of the department f£
Loirej 30ih, the rebellion of the city of Lyon*;
June 2d, thirty'two deputies of the Convention ,
S'nerally called the Brissotine^ were arrested.
bout the same time, ■ rebellion commenced in
the departments of Bouches de Rhone, Calvados
and Euie; June the 8th, the first order issued by
Great Britain for seizure of neuUal vessels bound
to France with provisions was issued. It is here
to be remarked, that the impartial state of neu-
trality proclaimed by the PaEBinEHT of thb
United Stateh on the 23d of the peceding
April, was prolnbly known to the British cabinet.
But whilst dashed with these s
crusade Hgaiost liberty, the neUlralily of the
United States could not protect them from the
of their neutral rights; on the lOih of
July, Conde surrendered to the combined armies ;
the 2Tth, Mayence, &c.; on the 38th, Valen-
nnes; at the end of July, the Spaniards were
lu possession of Btillezarde, Collioure. St. Elmle,
dbc, and of Ihe whole departmeni of tne Basiero
Pyrenees, and part of the Lower Pyrenees ; the
Prussians and Austrian! were possessed of the*
s of Weisembivg, Fort Vauban, &c., and had
ikadcd Landau. The Piedmontese and Hani>-
..._ana had made successful inroads into other
parts of France, the Royalists of La Vendee
ere in possession of four departments.
The royalists of the south were in possession
of Lyons, Marseilles, Toulon, and the depart-
ments of the Vaucluse and Rhone. On the SSth
August, all Frenchmen were put into requisition ;
on the 28th, Toulon surrendered to Lord Hood
by the Royalists { on the Qth of September, the
Duke of York was defeated : on the 11th, Lyons
ubdued ; on the 30th of October the Brisso-
weie executed. This was nearly the state
of the war upon the European Continent at the
time of issuing the hostile order of the 6th of No-
vember. In this chronological statement of facts
may be found the hostile disposition of Great
Britain widened by that order against the United
States. France, convulsed with intestine divt-
sioDs, which extended to the very heart of the
Convention, laboring under the most formidable
external pressure, was supposed to be an easy
prey to this terrible combination of despots. The
combination having in object, as he believed, the
total destruction of liberty. Great Britain^ pos-
sessed of the most triumphant and formidable
fleet, and guided almost implicitly the move-
ments of Ibis great combination, already antici-
pated ihe destruction of liberty in France, and
began to turn her attention towards the same ob-
ject in the United States. Hence the order of
the 6th of November; hence the truce between
Portus^ and Algiers; hence the talk between
Lord Dorchester and the Indians. These, he ad-
mitted, were all acts of hosiilitv, and evideotlr
produced by the state of thiogi Mfore dewiribea.
But what events followed these acts of hostility?
A complete reverse of fortune immediately loc-
ceeded. The Duke of York had been already
defeated. On the 17th of December Toulon «U
.a by Google
HISrrORY OF OOItoRESS.
H.OPR.]
Eaxciaim if Brilith Treatt/.
[APHI^ 1796.
letakea by the French ; on the S2d, the AaslrJaD
foTlified camp near Werth was aiiacked and cu-
ried ; on the 24th and 25th, the army under the
cainmaad of the Duke of Brunswick was de-
feated at Ketifburg, and the Austrian aimi at
Oeisburg; on the 26th, the lines of Weisemburg
were forced, and the Austrian army defeated^
On the 6th of Jaanary, the hostile order for seiz-
ing neutral reeseh waa revoked, and on the 9th,
Lord Qrenville informed the American Minister
that the rcTocation of the order was to take away
all pretest from eTil-diaposed persons amongst us
for indulging their resentment against Great Bri-
tain. But, however strongly this motive may
hftve operated □□ the British Cabinet, it certainly
was very strougty enforced by the slate of things
upon ibe European Gontineut, which was not
only changed, but completely reversed between
the 6th of November, 1793, and the 8th of Janua-
ry, 1794. It is remarkable, that notwithstaniiin|!
the several changes in the conduct of Great Bri-
tain towards the United States, they have been
nniform iu their impartial Dealraliiy towards
Great Britain ; of course, the uniform disposition
of the United States towards Great Britain could
not have produced the fluctuating disposition of
Great Britain towards the United States. Oreai
Britain, in all probability, had supposed, that, in
the intoxicalioB of the combined Powers from
(heir early successes, her influence might unite
them in a war asainst the United States, and per-
haps, in the heidit of her presumption, she tnight
even have induced the impious hope of regaining
her dominion over them : but tliis sudden reverse
of fortuoe checked her ambitious enterprise;
probably anticipating a speedy dissolution of the
combination, and having abandoned all prospects
of engaging them in her iniijaitous project, being
(innilling to add a new and formidable enemy to
the one already encountered, and even fearing
the eOects of her previous hostilities, a suddet
revolution is produced in her condnct toward:
the United States. It is then she is desirous o:
taking away all pretext from "evil-disposed per
sons," to indulge their resentment against her
It is then the order of revocation ia seen. If
then, Oreat Britain was unwilling to encounter e
new enemy in her then situation, will any change
of circumstances justify, at this time, the suppo-
•ition of a change of disposition in Great Britain
nspecting war with the United States. He b
lievcd not. Peace seems to be more importaut
Ore«t Britain at this moment than at any time
previoasly during the whole period of the v,-ki.
The nation is desirous of peace, and distressed for
E visions. The combination, which indnlged
presumptuous hopes, crumbled into dust.
Prussia at peace with France, and almost at
W» vntb Greet Britain ; Spain at peace with
France, end hardly at peace with Great Britain ;
Holland at peace, and in alliance with France,
•nd at war with Qreat Britain j ^Austria herself
almmt exbamted. and desirous of peace ; and
eontinuatioD of French exertions and successes,
'wliieh has excited the admiration and astoBJsh-
mcot of the world. Are theae the circaoutancea
which wouM justify apprehensions of war from
Oreat Britain 7 And are the United States to
tremHe at the sound of war from a nation thus
circumstanced ? He trusted not. And for what
cause is this war to be produced 1 Because the
House of Representatives may deem it ioexpe-
dient to become the instrument of giving' ^-
cacy to a bad bargain 7
He verily believed that the alarm of war was
not serious. He verily believed it was i-Esarted
to as an artificial instrument to effect a favorite
object. For his part, he believed the hazard so
smaU as not to constitute an item in estimating
the present question.
Mr. G. xaid, he believed (hat Great Britain con-
sidered the United States as a more important
commercial connexion (particularly as it respects
her views in the West Indies) thau some gentle-
men seem to admit; and he believed, also, that
she viewed the United States more formidable as
an enemy. He inferred these opinions from the
avidity with which this Treaty seems to have
been received in that country, and particolarly
from an expression in the speech of tlie Kinj at
the late meeting of Parliament. He said that
two reflections were strouglv impressed npon bis
mind from that speech. The one was, that the
Treaty was deemed a very advantageous one to
Great Britain ; the other was, that Great Briiaia
has no appetite for war against the United States
in her present situation.
Hence, he satd, that he conld not believe that
there was the least possible foundation for the
suggestion of the fatal hostility of departments of
Grovernment, or war with Great Britain, as
amongst the consequences resulting from a refa-
sal to make the necessary provisions for giving
efficacy to the Treaty.
As the present Treaty is incomplete, and ai
further negotiations are stipulated in the Treaty
itself, and in the event of a decision either way,
House should refuse to make provisions for carry-
ing the Treaty into effect, the new negotiations
would commence without the concessions con-
tained in the present Treaty. If the provisions
should be made, the fiirther negotiations wilt pro-
ceed under the weight of the concessions already
made, and very little amelioration of the present
conditions can be expected, as the United States
will have very little left to induce the ameliora-
tion. And if^no final adjustment of differences
should ensue, the United States will at least con-
tinue to possess all the rights attached to national
sovereiirnty.
Much has been said, and much unnecessarily
said, sbont intemperance and heaLi. He said be
would appeal to the recollection of the Commit-
tee, whether there ever was a more harmoniow
session than the present, nntil this Treaty was
introduced into the House; and then whether tti
opponents had not discovered at least as mnch
coolness and deliberation as its advocates.
He said thai the Treaty itself was the torch of
dixord irtueh had been nnforlonatelr thrown
.dbyGoogle
HISTOfiY OF CQNGHBSS.
Apwi, 1786-3
Eaxeution of BrilM Treaty.
[H.orR.
■Dio the Uoitcd Ststcs, aad it mn ezttkordinary
toobeerve thoie who bave been most iostni mental
in JnirodQciDg it, impate heal toothers, for a firm
and decisive opposition to it. It is top much to
■appose that the absolute uerifice of opiaton is
Upon the whole, he coDseientiously bdieved
the Treaty lo be a bad one. Hs believed it eon-
tained the most complete evidence of British ioter-
ference in our interaal afbifs, and had laid the
foundatton for the furtber extension of British in-
fluence. It has restricted the eiercise-ofsDme of
the important rights of n&tioDai sovereignty. It
has voluntarily hazaided the neatrality of the
United States m the present European war, and
deatroyed aH pietensioDs to its characteT of impar-
tiality. It lu^ not afforded proteetioD to our neu-
tral rights, which, was amongst its great objects ;
and JD the adjustment of the differences resultJDi;
from the inexecution of the Treaty of Peace, it
is luequ^l and unjust. All these important cir-
cumstances considered, and wheD it is dso coD'
sidered that the Britisn persevere in iropresting
our seamen and aeixiDg our vessels, in violation of
the clearest rights of neutral nstiuns, even siiice
the signing of tlte Treaty, he could not consent
to be ins instrumeDl of givbg it efficacy. He be-
lieved that it was cme of those extraordinary
eases which justified strong and extraordinary re-
When Mr. Qilbb had aonduded bis speech,
Mr. Qooauvs addressed the Chair as fbilowt:
Hr. Chairman: Much noise has been made,
and every art has been pnctised to prejudice the
people Bgamst the Treaty now under considera-'
tion. I mean to look at it and see if it be the
horrid thing it is cepresented to be, and particu-
larly to examine the commercial part, to know
whether we have made a good bargain or not.
I will take notice of some objections that have
been made, and then touch on the great evils that
may justly .be apprehended if we refase to carry
it into effect. And here let me observe, the sub-
ject is the most m(»ientons that ever came be-
fore this House, and 1 mean to put do false colors
on it, or to paint any evils that will follow are-
jeciioQ, beyond what, in such an event, I most
conscientioasly believe will be reolized. I will
aaw state what new sources of commerce are
opened to us by the Treaty that we bad not be-
fore, and ihen see what we have given for tbem.
1st. We have^ot by the Treaty a perfectly free
trade across the land, and by means of the lakes
with Canada, that we bad not before, and tta the
same terms with British suhjeets, which I esti-
mate as a great advantage to this country; for it
is evident, that we can mtrodnce into Canada —
up the North riverand across ^e Lakes— almost
any kind of goods, at less expense and on better
terms than the British can up the river St. Law-
rence, which is verv leoglhy, and frozen up six
or seven months in the year. Having this advan-
■affe, can it be donbted that we liave not industry
and enterprise to improve iti. No, sir, the en-
leipriae oi out pcofte » auch, that we shall un-
qaesdaDably etriy on ahnost all (he trade of Up-
per Canada, and that great Western coDDlry
which will be opened to us ; by which metms we
shall have at least an equal share in their for
trade also with tbpm, which we have so long
wanted. Bnt it is said, the portages or carrying
places being common to both, ihey will run awar
with the grraCer part of the trade. Why sol I
am not afraid but the citizens of the United
States, if Ifaey are put on an equal footing with
others, will make their way equal with any peo-
ple on earth. Itut it is saia, by way of lessenioK
the advantages of this trade, that goods importea
Canada pay little or no duty, and the f
we hnport are by our laws snbject to hish
dnty, and tnat no drawback of the duty can he
established upon their bwDg sent into Canada,
and therefore, we canDot supply them on equal
terms. To this, I reply, that f do not know wliat
not believe but it is possible to devise a plan for
a drawt»ck of the duty which may have- been
paid on our goods when they are sent into Cana-
da, and that at any rate the ease by which we
can send them there up the North river, com-
pared with their beii^ introduced by the St. Law-
rence, will more than compensate for any differ-
ence of duty, in case a drawback should not be
admitted.
2. We hare got established bf tl>e Treaty a
right lo trade with all their settlements in India
oa the name terms with their own subjects, and
thus we have hid open to us a free tntde with
choae vast posscwiona of theirs in that quarter of
the globe, whieh, it is said, contains Iweoij or
thirty millioua of inhabitanls. Let me iniorn
the Committee, that our trade to India is already
very great and profitable. In the town of Salem
only, in whieb I live, we have thirty sail of Indiar
men, and doubtless, in the United Slates, the
whole amount must be nearly an hundred ; and
the number will increase in such a manner, as by
superior enterprise, industry and economy,
that we shall not only supply our own wants, but
those of the West Indies and Europe, in a great
measure, with India articles; for though, by the
Tmty which gives us this free Irade, we are not
permitted to carry India goods from their settle-
ments directly to Europe, yet there is no doubt,
in my mind, but we. can export from hence
thither cheaper than they can get them any other
way, for this nbrioua reason, becaoie their trade
to India is carried on by their companien, in which
despatrh and economy is by no means so much
attended to, as it is when managed by an indivi-
dual. Bnt it ts said we had this trade before the
Treaty. I anawer, it is true we had, but it was
only by way of indulgence, sabject to be deprived
of It whenever they thought At ; and let me aak,
is it not vastly better to have it secured as a rightj^
than to haveitrestoo the preoarioos-tenure^f
indulgence? Here, .Mr. Chairman, let me te-
lark, that they have granted to at this fiee tr»de
.J India, which their own subjects (except the
India ComiMDy) ate entiraly shol out froaa.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
d.orR.]
Extcutum of Brituh Tttaty.
[APBI^ ITM.
WhM tnuit be the feeliag* of Briiish iDbjeets
when thejr «ee their OoTernmenl hu given to
(trangen a perfect freedom of rrade to their India
Mtilemeau, and shot them out from it altogether?
And what miut be their astoaishnMDl when they
he&i that some people amongst ot think thai
QrcBt Britsin hu conferred no favor upon U3 by
doing it? Hear what the famotu Mi. Orattan,
the great Irish ^triot, sud in the Irish Patlia-
inenl, on the subject:
" This Tcrj Amniea, whidi the Britich Minktar m-
anlted and ^len croachsd to, had, by the late Trai^ of
Commercs, bean admitted to all ths Britiah Mttlemant*
in the EMt and Weat Iniiiea, to tb« latter of which
Irdand waa only eonditionalty admiUad, and finni the
formal nnoonditianaUj azduded ; yet Ireland waa a
loyal, attalhed natioa, and Amniea an alien."
TheK are the commercial acquiailioDs We have
obtained bjr the Treaty ; and, let me ssk, what
have we givea to Britain in return for them ? I
■niwer, nothing mart than they hare all alon^
enjoyed in oor porta, by the laws of the United
Slates, in common with other foreign nations.
No new commercial adrantages have we given
them ; they can come here now on no better
terms than before. But, it is said, we have tied
our handid by the Treaty, that we will not lay any
greater duties on their commerce than we do on
all other foreign nations. Pray, let me ask, if
Great Britain have nut equally tied their hands ?
And can we be so unreasonable as to suppose
that they would ever consent to a Treaty that
had not such terms of reciprocity 1
It is again said, by way of objection, that tbey
have reserved to themselves the right of counter-
railing the difference of duty, wbicb we, by our
laws, nave establiohed between our own citizens
and foreigners, and that she will now exercise
that right by imposing equal duiies on our vessels
in the ports of Great Britain. Let me answer
this objectiuD to the Treaty, by asking if she had
not this same right, and even an nnlimited one, of
imposing what dunes she saw proper on our ves-
sell in her ports before the Treaty 7 She did not
see &t to exercise it then, neither is it probable she
will now. And, lest it should be said she will
DOW do it, because we are restrained by the Trea-
ty from increasing the duty on her ships beyond
what it now is, and. therefore^ she has not the
•ame fear operating to prevent it that she bad be-
fore, let me remark, tnat if she was restrained
by any nnch considerations, this same restraint
wotitd be in force ^;ain in two years after the
present war ceased, being the period of the exist-
ence of those articles of the Treaty— a time so
■hori as to render it highly probable she will not
think it worth while to make the experiment.
A great cry has been made again.n the com-
mercial part of the Treaty, and f must confess I
never coald see on what groimd, for it is a certain
fact we have given Great Britain bo new privi-
leges in OUT Atlantic ports by the Treaty, and no
oilier in their intercourse by the way of Canada
than they have given ni; and, therefore, it nay
tairly be said that, by the Treaty, we hava given
Ikem no new cinamercial privilegts they were
not before enjoying in our ports ; and they, on
their part, have given us considerable ; and con*
tequently, on our side, the bargain moat be a
good one.
Let me ask, why there is forever so much com-
plaint uainst Great Brilaid because she does not
open air her colonies freely to us J Does Portn-
gid open the Brazils 1 No ; she ahuta out all for-
eigners. Did Hotland, before the present war,
open to DB all her rich posseasions in the East In-
dies? No. DoesSpamopen her rich islands in
ibe East and West Indies, and her immense pos-
sessions in South America ? No. Does she, in
the Treaty lately made, open even Florida, ai
Grrat Britain has Canada? No. Did France,
before this war, give us free trade toher colonies}
No. ,Anddo not. all those nations, as well asererr
other, come into our ports on the same terms wita
the British 1 Why, then, make this rant aboni
the British? Let them fare as well in our porti
as other foreignet^ inasmuch as they eenainly
grant aa mnch to us a* moat others do, is aJll
contend for. I do not widi they should fart
better.
Let me observe, Mr. Chairman, that ever since
this Qavernment has been established, and long
before, it has been the uniform complaint agaioM
Great Britain that she would not enter into a
Commercial Treaty with us ; and now many of
(hose very people who made the greatest com-
Elainl, find sreat fault with our negotiator for
Bving med^ed with the subject, and aiy they
wanted no Commercial Treaty with them. Every
one must know this to he true; and it is past my
compreheniioD lo reconcile such oimtradictory
The 12th article, relative to the West India
trade, which was rejected by the Senate, and
forms no part of the Treaty, is conjured up as
a scare-crowj and has been made use of bv the
opposers, as though it formed a part of it. They
say it in only suspended. Why are tbey not can-
did, aod say (be subject b suspended, as is truly
the case, and is now the subject of negotiation by
Mr. Pinckney with the Court of London ?
It has been made an objection to the Treaty,
that there is no stipulation thai free bottoms shall
make free goods. I answer, it could not be ex-
pected that Great Britain, the most powerful
nation of Ibe ocean, would ever accede to such a
principle ; for it is one that was brought into view
only by the weaker Powers, to form a combina'
tion against the stronger; and, if properiy ex-
aminea, must be found a visionary though a plea-
sing idea, thai can never be practised upon so long
as' war continues among the nations of the earth.
Beside, if such a thing was practieahle, I am not
sure that we should ever be gainers by entering
into such astipulation; for it is highly probable
that, in a war with Great Britain, she would have
more of her property shielded by neutral bot-
toms than we should. We have sucb a stipula-
tion with France, and we found ahe did not ad-
here to it, neither oonld she, without giving bet
enemies a great advantage over her.
Another abjection is made, that {wovisions are
.dbyGoogle
1057
HISTOBT OF CONGRKHS.
Apsil,1706.J
Execution ^ Briiuh TVtatjf.
[H.0
included among the coatmband^ ntidea ; but the
fact ii qnile otherwise, lor provisioDa, even in
cases where, by the Law of nations, they would
be deemed so, and subject to forfeiture, are ex-
empted and are to be paid for. One gentleman
saia, that British ships eoald come from India on
the same teimt with ours, if he had eiamiapd
Ihe Treaty csDdidly and oar refenne Uwh, before
he had undertakeD an oppositioD to it, he #ould
nerer bare had occasion to make this assertion
and many otfaws respecting that iasirument.
One idea which has pretty moch prevailed in
the Dmted Sutes, and which has always been
brought into view in opposition to Great Britain,
to the omisKoD of all other natioos who practise
npoQ the same Brinciple, is, that her dominions
every where ooAt to be as open to our ehips as
onr ports aia to ners. I wish moM cordially that
enry nation that has colonies would give us this
free entrance into them. Our commerce would
then have a wide and beneficial range indeed.
Bat it is not to be expected that nations wbo hate
been and are at an enormous expense in settling
and protecting colcniies, will ever let other nations
come in and ^partake equally with them tbe bene-
fits resulting from such expense and labor ; and I
mneb douba if we had colonies if we should fur-
nish the world with an instance of such unexam-
pled generamty,
A jrreat objection is made to tbe provision
e Treaty which requires lis to pav aur de
due to British sabjeets, which they hiTe lost
debts
cDnseqnence of the Courts of Law ra srtne of the
States haTing been shut against their recovery,
contrary to the 4th article of the Treaty of Peace,
which expressly provides that no such impedi-
ments should have existed. The objection does'
not seem to go to say that they were not bound
to pay such debts, but they now endeavor lo
friKQlen us with the ereal amount of them. I
will observe, that if it be just that we should ^y.
them, then no matter how great they arc. But
let us examine into it, and we shall see that, in-
stead of $15^000,000, which some have held np, it
probably will not amount to one-thirtieth of that
sum. And. in order to form an idea of the
most extent of Ihe sum which we may be liable
to pay for British debts hy the 0th article of the
Treaty, which makes us answerable only for
as were coolracted before the late war, and have
been lost by insolvencies taking place during the
continuHDce of lawful impediments that have
isted in some of the States to their recovery, c
i;ary to the 4tb article of 'he Treaty of Peace
with Oreat Britain, let us 'ive recourse to Mr.
JEFTERBcin'B letter to the TSrU'^., Minister on this
subject He says:
" Rome notkv is to be taken t* lo the gregt deficien-
CM in collection urged on behilCof the Briti>h mer-
le witn Oru. iiciuin
„ Wy >n-
bled from a year to s ^ear and ■ half* amount of
r eaporta. It is tha opmion of judidons merchants
It it never cieoeded the latter tarm, and that i' -'id
not exceed tbe foitner at the end of dte *
hidden, then, of lliit debt be dMsad into, let. Thoee
who *er« iuMlvent at that tims. 3d. Thoee solvent
then, who became insolvent during the operationa of
the war — a numerons daaa. 3d. Those solvent at the
clow of tha irai, but inulrent aovi. 4tb. Those sol-
vent at the cloce of tbe wsi, who have since paid or
settled satis&ctorilj nith their creditors — a numerous
clasa sIbo. 6lh. Thaw aotvent then snd aim, wbo have '
neither paid nor made aatisbctoTy arrangements widi
their creditors."
The Treaty under our consideration has refer-
ence to the third class only : and let us coojectDre
from this statement of hia what the whole amount
of such debts may be for which we are now lia-
ble. 'He says, the whole amount of debt at the
commenoement of the war may be considered as
lot exceediug the annual exporta. I take it he
.ppliCE this ^larticularly to the State of Virginia,
because in no other States have I heard any aucn
debta uist for which we shall be accountable, or,
if any, it ia but of stnall amount any where else.
The value of the exports of Virginia, in 1774, i*
not known, but it was $3,600,000 in 1793. Pre-
suming their exports are upon the increase, as ia
the case with all the other States, I will set their
exports, in 1774^ at $2 500,000, which, by Mr. Jbf-
PBHsoN'a idea, must be equal to what was owed
by Virginia at the commencement of tbe war ;
and, from his claasing the debtors io the manner
he ha& with what he says of each, I think it fair-
ly deducible that that pari of the 92,500,000 Vir-
ginia owed, but a small portion of it will fall un-
der the description oi the third class, for which
we can be accountable, and cannot, by tbe evir
dence resulting from ibis sutement, be«8iiniated
at more than one-fifth of what was owed, oi more
than «S00,000.
The impressment of our seamen by tbe Briiiah
is made um of as an objection to our carrying the
Treaty into effect. It is, to be sure, a mortifying
circumstance, and must excite our utmost detes-
tation of such, conduct. Bui let not our nasaicua
fet the better of our judgment We have no
ind of evidence that sucn conduct is counte-
nanced by their Admiralty, but the evidence we
have is of a contrary aature, for, apM our Minis-
ter's remoDsiraiing to the British Ministry on this
point, they.assurM him that orders had been is-
sued, and should he repeated to the commandera
of their ships, not to commit such violences on out
rights, at the tame time observing, that, speakine
the same language as we do, it was difficult in all
caaea to dislHtgnlsh their teamen from ours. ^ In
this sitaation,let us believe tbat a firm and spirit-
ed remonatrance will be mkde by our Executive
against inch outrages ; and let ua hope that it
may have the desired effect But, let me ask, if
the Treaty should not be carried into effect, will
that revere that deserving daw of out ciiiien*?
Will it no! have probably a contrary effect, and
be the means of increasing the evil len-totd more
than it tixists at present 1
One gentleman, who is violently oppoi«ed to the
Treaty, has said that the Commivioners for Spo-
liationa had no principle laid down by which
they are to be goveTueo, and, therefore, presumea
;d by Go Ogle
HISTOHY OP CONGBES8;
*R.J
fmcutfoM of BritWt TVoo/y.
[April, ITM.
diey might Mt without principle. Bui tbef hare
the best priociplps laid down for tlieir goTem-
nent. Thcwordsare: "And ahtll decide tbeelaims
1q question accoTding to the merits of ibe sfveraj
cues, and to juslire, equity, and the Law of
}Taiions." But, it is worthy or remark, as it wi"
serve to show the piejudicei that prevail io tt
opposition to the Treaty, that the same gentli
roan TOled for the Spanish Treaty without the
slightest remark, althou)[h the same words
made use of in that on the mlBe sul^ect.
A genilpmaD, to whom I hiTa before alluded,
haa Mid the raaaon why the merchants wer« in
hTor of the Treaty was, becauae it was for their
iniereat. Let me ask, whiat better reason could
be giveo 1 1 wish we were all gorerned by soeh
> principle ; and the iaquiiry was. What is for the
interest of our eoimtry? And, harisg fouod it,
we might pursue it.
Biit{ Mr. Chairman, let ma ask sonr krious
qnesiioot. How do we ezpeot to get at the pos-
session of the Western poats if we reject tbii
Treaty 1 Do we mean to po to war for them
or do we mean the British shall retam them, anc
be quiet under it, and so have aooiber Indian
war is coosequeDce of it? How and in what
way are oar merchant* to be iodemnified to the
amount of $5,000,000 for tbe spoliatioas cwRmit-
ted OD their commerce if the Treaty is rejeetird'?
Do tbis House erer mean to pay tnem f
Has there erer been any disposition manifested
that can afford them the least ray of hnpe of ever
receiring use farthing from Congress bv way of
such indemuifioation? Is it expected tbey will
pocket these immense losses, and sit down quietly
under it ?
Does this House intend to be answerable for
the capture of the
properly n
r afloat
that may be tbe consequence ot the reject!
tbe Treaty? Do they mean to be responsible for
a war which may, and probably will be, the con-
aequenee of the rejection of the Treaty 7
What rMources shall wc hare to carry on a
war, when onr impost must cease, bni a land <o>i
What do we expect from a war 7
Do we Mpect to get a better peace at the close
of it than we now hare?
These and many other qoeries might, with prO-
?icty, Mr. Chairman, b« pat to the Committee,
hey are grare questions, and I most ardently
hope they will reecire the consideration they
marii, because I am most indobitaUy eonri need
that war with all its horrors, together with a dis-
Bolution of tbe Union, may; and I belier« will,
*" inrolred is the decision of the question now
— — 'f ifae decision should ultimately be
TunoAT, ApritlO,
SPOLIATIONS ON COMMERCE.
Mr. LiviNOBToa wished to subvit « rcaolution
to the coosideratioB of the House, rcladre to the
situation of certain merchants of the Daiwd
Stslea, in consequence of sptJiatious oommitted
upon tbeir properly by foreign Powers. It wai,
be beliered, an EstaUisbed principle of a free
tiovarnmeot, that protection was equally due to
the person and property of every citizen, and
that w.hea the properly of a oitixeo was, notwith-
standing the protection which wa> due lo it, in-
juted by a foreign Power, relief ought to be
gntnicd to him. In. applying these principles to
tbe merchants of the United St^es, it was aa in-
ilispatable lact that they Iwd suffered rery inate-
rially by the spoliations committed, chi^y by
tbe British, upon their propfriy at sea, and that
hitherto they had received no redress. These
merchants fell themselves at this moment pecu-
liarly situated with respeei to the Treaty kiely
concluded with Qreal Britain, now under discus-
sion in that House, which afforded them some
hop« of relief; but, from tbe opposition which
was shown thei«io. it appeared doubtful wbetlwT
it would erentuaUy be carried into effect. A^ '
however, these citizens were, in his opioion, en-
titled lo relief from Gorernment, he should wish
to bring tbe subject before the House by means of
the folloiying resoluiions :
" Bttoked, Thai pnTiMMi oagfat to ba nadabyiaw
£)i tbe poipose of asoaitainiuK tbe aaswint ef loaaea
iTliicfa may hars bseo snstainsd by d
the Committee rose, aod had leare to sit again.
Mr. W. Smith proposed that the galleries
should be cleared, that the select committee to
whom certain papers relatire to the Treaty with
Algiers waa referred, might make their report.
They were cleared accordingly.
The doors .being again opened, the Huose ad-
journed.
pmsuit of tbsii lawful CMuaeice, aithei bj any
infraction of Ihe Law of NatioD^ on tbe part of any fi-
reign Power, or br Ihe unauthonied acta »f soy tf iba
■ubjeetf of soch ioraign Power, where, from whaterer
cause, reliaf cvmot be bad against such subjects in the
ordiiiBry course of Justice.
" lUtohed, That dollsis be appropriBteil, to be
sdTsnced to lueb citizens, and dirided amongst them in
proportion to their respective losses."
OHIO LANDS.
Mr. Henderbo]* said, as they had very frequent-
ly means proposed to them of^iakiog money from
tbe Tresiury, hfe should wish to propose a mea-
sure which would be likely to bring some money
into it. He believed there was a quantity of land,
equal to 100,000 acres, which might be sold for
public use, and would afford seasonable assistance
to their revenue. For this purpose he proposed a
resolution to the foHowing effect:
"Setohed, That a eomnuttee be appointed lo in"
quire into and make a statemeat of the onaibu of lota
of land, together with ths number of acres they con-
tain, which are rsMrred for public use out of the sale
of lands of Iha Ohio Company and olhsn, that they
consider thereupon, and that they make a report of lbs
same t>y bill or otherwise."
EXECUTION or BRITISH TREATY.
The House then resolved itself iaio a Comiait-
e of the Whole on the state of the Unioo.oa tbe
otion for making provision for carrying into ef-
j4Ct tbe Troaiy with Great Briuio; when
.dbyGoogle
mSTORY OF CONGRESS.
Apiih 1796.]
Extatiim of ffritiA Treaty,
[H.arR.
Mr. Heath roM and ■Mrewed the Chaii u fol-
Hr. Chainnan : In tbe c'iKustion of thin somo-
ineiitou* aad imporCant a subject, aod h> big at
the same time with tbe dearest iiiiere*tB of our
eommoD couolrr, I shall not atteiapt aoy critical
analysis upoD the good and bad part* of the in-
slrumant, ai ibe genlleiqeii preceiTing me in thif
debate hare already doD«, but only c^nGue my-
self to a few remarks, to justify my conduct u
God and my country for the vote I shall give id
tba ultimate decision of the queEiiou. Mr. Chair-
man, permit me here to remark, thai during (he
tce««s of the last Congress, vhea the Anteriean
miod wan roused with so much irritation andsen-
■ibility through all parts of the Union against this
paper, sfler its first appearance io pubUe print, 1
was one of those who Kept aloof from th« storm,
suspended my opinioD, became of no party, con-
sidering myself hereafter bound to discbaige the
important auties of an American Representative
on the occasion. And now, since the commenee-
ment of the prcMut aeasimj thotigh two-thirds of
my time overwhelmed with disease, and daily
languishing in the bed of pain, even under such
a dreadful personal calamity, my,reflectians were
not turned aside from the awfuloes* of the subject
before us ; which before and during this discnasion,
I confen, asoften as I have revolved in my mind,
with a raview of the situadon of my country, I
have frequently paused, not knowing the best ez-
KdicDt to pursue to avoid impending' evils. 1
(e at length choeen my ground — I am now fix-
ed and determined in my course. I shall n^fatire
the proposition on ysnr table, aad will now sae-
ciuctly oOer my reasons to the Committee, humbly
leqnestiog their patience and aiteotion for a few
moments. And. for the sake of method and per-
ipicuity, I shall consider my objectioiu in two
C'nts of view — objectiou iatdnstc and extrinsic,
rinsic as they arise out of the Treaty itself;
extrinsic eausea independent and self-existing
without the Tn*ty, manifestly apparent and glar-
ingly coBspieuous from the conduct of the British
both previous and subsequMil so the formation of
the instrument. Under tbe first bead, causes
arising from tbe obnoxious feature* of tbe Treaty
itself, 1 shall redoee to the four following points :
1st. It is uneqoal, because it is only a partial
adjustment of diflerences and grievances existing
before the formation of this iostrament,
2d. Ii is uiMqual, because there is oaVf a plausi-
ble appearmnee of reciprocity of advantages gain-
ed by the instrument, without the reality. We
have given tbe 9m^ but do not receive the quo.
3d. It is impolitic and improper, becanse it is
an irojust interference with oui body politic, in
clogeing and fettering our Legislative functions.
4ih. It is an iltegiumBtechil<l,and not the truly
begotten offspring of the United States.
On the first objection regarding tbe ioet^uality
of adjusimeoEf, 11 is to be remarked, that m the
' n of tbe old Treaty of 17B3, reasons
were offered by both nations in jnstiGcati
. Great Britain pleaded on her part the non-pay-
meni of Btiiiah debts to the British creditor* pre-
vioBs to the war. America rebuts her plea, de-
nyiitg a violation on her part, hut if any act of
hers could beeonstrued into aviolation, she was jus-
tified by a previous violation on the part of Britain
in carrying Bwvy the slaves and other properly be-
longing to American citizens, secured by the 7th ar-
ticle of tbe said Treaty. Is there any provision in
this inst rumen t for so flagrant a violation of the
Treaty ; such an hostility and outrage againit
justice and morality t No, no such provision was
ever thought of, but. blotted out of the book for-
ever by the worthy Minister of negoliatjon. He
was born in a Northern clime, therefore Sotttheni
grievances were subjeclsof too inferior magnitude
to occupy the depths of his profound imaginaiioa.
The surrender of the posts was enongh fbr every-
thing. I have no doubt mr Northern brethren
contemplate mines of wealta froin the fur trade,
and ihisby anticipation from their surrender. Iwish
from my soul their ideas, so sRuguine, may be re-
alized, but t confess my mind ba* its feais.
Mr. Chairman, I have strange forebodings on
this occasion. By the second and third articles of
tbe instrument before you, in the surrender of the
posts, British subjects hare a right to reside with
Indians have a right to pass aod repass from
acquaintanceship with them in spite of us? Are
not their capitals for trade larger than ours?
Where, then, are the real profits anticipated ? All
visionary, like the beggar'sdreun, grasping moun-
tains of gold, and when the morning sun shakes
off his slumber, it dissipates the delusion. But
lime will make more converts than reason. Fur-
ther, before I quit this subject of inequality, I
wish to remark, by wry of reply to my much re-
spected' friend from Connecticut, who was up a
few dayn ago, in language nearlv similar, and the
same sort of ingennity of a celebrated champion,
who has dedicated much labor in favor of ilus in-
strument under the signature of CamiUti*, that
Great Britain had never violated the seventh arti-
cle of the Treaty of Peace in not restoring the
slaves and other property ; that they were taken
in war, and their freedom offered to them by the
British commanders, and were not taken afier a
cessation of hostilities ; and, therefore, were not
proper objects of sorrender. Ob, the deceit, the
sopnistry of Ibis construction 1 I snail just answer
it by readini from the Journals of the old Con-
gress what the real QinisUiia. or, in other words,
the learned Mr. Hsmiltdh, tbougbt of that arti-
cle at that time. He read the ^^nrnsls of 1763,
where Mr. Hamilton moved in Congress for
Commissioners to he sent to New York to the
British commander to request an esjdanation re-
specting an infraction of that article. So was Mr.
Hamilton's opinion at that time, so was thepr»>
valent opinion of all America at that lime. Hy
second point, the want of reciprocity in the in-
strument, has been so well explained by my wor-
thy colleague from Virginia, that I confess I am
curtailed in my sentiments a little here. Bur,
suffice it to aay, that the local eircamstancea of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
1.]
E/reaUion of BritUK TVooty.
[Aral^ 1796.
this ecDDtrr will make the inipention of the law
of aliencge more ndrania^oua b^ teofbld than
could be reaped b; Americaa eiuzens over' the
other tide of the Tntter. Wiioest the great dispro-
poftioD beiwecD American citizenB boldiog lands
in Dritaia and British subjeeis id this country. I
wiah it may not reTive old proprietary rishts, with
its long tram of tennte, featlf , aod TaasalBge. Per-
haps my fi!are may ensue from Teaidias in that of
Virginia, where this tenure once prevailed. I
now come to the third objection, aod the most im*
portani. Other objections, though they have
their weight in my mind, yet perhaps they mi^ht
yield their force, were it not for thi« the more m-
sarmoantable. This might be said with proprie-
ty to be the foundation of the call for papers from
the Biccutire respecting the Treaty.
By the various articles embraeing this subject,
the House of Represents lives of the United States,
in the Treaty-making power, ha»e lived to see the
day, which 1 am sure no human sagacity could
have ever divined, that they may be considered as
a perfect collective cyphencal body of men in le-
gislation, reduced to a mere Committee of Ways
add Means, subservient to Executive policy, just
called together, for voting the necessary supplies
of money for ioreign negotiation or for the cur-
rent annual expenses of Qovernment. America
is here totally oisarmed of every allernative to re-
sort to in the hour of distress — to prevent the hor-
rors of war, no sequestration, no embargo, no
commercial restriction, can be the subject of fu'
ture legislation against the lender and humane
people of Britain.
Is this right, is this just, that all our rights
should he thus bartered away under a Treaty-
making power? If it is so, and it must be born^
dreadful, dreadful, indeed, must be the calamily oi
future seneralions of America, under the opera-
tion of inls Government i for any one of ihem, or
all together, I would resort to au awful national
crisis, sooner ,tban sound the trumpet of war, and
let the banners of hlood loose upon, the earth.
4thly and lastly. I hate very much to enter into
a minute explanation of tliis objection, because I
love and venerate harmony in Governme
not like to be telling the American people of party
«Dd facuoas prevailing in our public c(
However, suffice it to say, that an attentive
of the sessioQoflTM, the period when all America
seemed toberousedwithajustsense of indignation
at British insolence and oppression, this able
American negotiatorreceived his birth, and winged
his Bight over the Atlantic to the British throne,
to beg for mercy and reparation for our accumu-
lated injuries. Humility is a golden virtue, but
seldom succeeds when addrewed to a hardened
Pharaoh. However, a majority of iweniy odd of
the House ol Representatives were for pursuing
a diUereot policy, which 1 then thought, and still
think, would have been the only paccGc and heal-
intc balm for our wounds and distempers. There-
fore, this proves that the people, by their Repre-
nntatives; thought one expedient best, and the
Kzeciiliv« a&Dther ; and, from my|heart and con-
nnioD of sentiment had i»«-
Upon the whole, Mr. Chairman, were I capa-
ble of pencilling a true picture of the iostranMBt
before you.l conceive it isagivingto Great Britain
so complete a control over our commerce, that it
reminds me of the old trueprinciple long conceiv-
ed by the minority of the British Parliament, nn-
former Colonial system, a mere amelion-
our unfortunate state of taxation wiihont
representation, by helding out a distinction of ex-
ternal and internal taxation. The first, the r^o-
lalioQ of our commerce, which Britain would ever
Government, proved by a passage read from the
life of Chatham,
But, Mr. Chairman, for all these cAjeclions, po-
licy end expediency, founded upon the truest baus
of all political happinesa, might have taught me
to have yielded their force; and give the affirma-
tive to the nroDBsicioD. Bo I would, hot where u
the force of a Treaty 1 Is Great Britain bound by
it, or wa-1 "he ever bound by any Treaty since the
history of her existence as a nation, no longer
than it was her interest to break it 1 What ha*
been her conduct towards America previous to
the formation of this Treaty,and subaequent there-
to, even to the present time? Is she not daily,
with a high hand and outstretched arm, seizing
our provision ships bonnd to foreign ports, and,
wiiat is still worse, by unwarranlaUe impress-
ments, dragging our seamen, with even protec-
i in their pockets, on board their ships of war.
e worse than captivity itself to freemen T
They lord it over the ocean, take from us our
property and searaea, and yet we cannot stay
iheit hands, and sav unto them, why dost ibou?
These are the reasons, Mr. Chairman, 1 have
r voting against the proposition ; and however
light and airy they may be viewed by some, I
confess they greatly prepwiderate in my mind.
Though my body is feeble, and I have stood longer
on my legs than 1 could have believed, I must beg
the patience of the Committee a little longer, ihai
' may address a few words to my Northern l^th*
n within these walls.
I lament much that a worthy friend of mine
from Massachusetts, [Mr. Goodhdb,] on the floor
a few days uo, shouu conclude his speech in fa-
vor of the Treaty by giving it as his opiniou, in
the most solemn manner, that if the Treaty i^ not
carried into effect by this HoDse, the consequence
woulJ be that two of the greatest evils that ever
befel a nation must follow — war and a disunion
of the Government. Good God ! I am lost in as-
tonishment ! Is there a man within these walls
so dead to all the dearest interests o( his country,
an alien to the feelini^ of humanity, lost to all
sense ol his responaibility, as to plunge itin coon-
Iry iniOB wanton and unnecessary war? Soch
an one, if any there be amongat oa. I deem a tiai-
lor, and unworthy ibe name of freeman. I thiat
my friend must have caiwbt ihia idea from an old
hackneyed tone, played frequently to this city *
fbw ycara past, and now lately revived by a eer-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGKESS.
AMl^l7^w.]
Baieeution o/* BrUiah Trtatf.
[H-opR.
uin aumnlile inOtieiifie, wlio have induilrioaily
traDtported their ballada all ov«t the CoDtinent'to
soudJ the alar 0) of war. These deligbcful genii
of ihepiesect day would feign nuke in believe
that both ibe naiural uid political world will be
eonrulB«d if this Ttwfy U not carried ioto efliKt.
ThcM tioties will do to frighten children of the
cradle, but not the true, indepeDdeol American,
who knowi and wiU^iroieat the favored rights of
his country.
Mr, Cbairman, I feai I trespass on your pa-
tience^ but I am c'lming to a close ) and now let
me be»eech my worthy brethren, from all partn of
the UnioD^ that, Id the deciiioo of this quemion,
wbaleTer ude the majority may prevail, let us^ as
legislators^ as Tirtuous, free-born son» of Araqrica,
mcqaieace like true Republicans, and afterwards
unite in one conraioD cause with recurrence to
that great and fuD^ameDtal principle, whiohshouid
be written in letters of gold, and tram whence,af-
ter a longand periloos siru^le^ grew up this siu-
Sndoos Republic, '^United we stand — divided we
I."
1 have now only to add ray most fervent prayer
to the Divine Author of all Qood, that, if we are
'wiong, to pray the protection of Heaven to put us
right ; and, if we Jtre right^ to crown our eudea-
Tors with success, ip giving harmony and stability
to our public councils, and happiness to the Ame-
rican people.
Mr. WiLLiAne sai^ that various opinions bad
been delivered umhi the various subjects involved
in the Treaty. He should take the liberty of siai'
ing to the Committee bis sentiments on the oc-
casion, and then inquire into the policy or im-
policy of carrying l^e Treaty into euect. But, in
the first place, he conceived it to be necessa^ to
take a view of its origin, the division, and party
dtssensions which , then prevailed — the critical
posture of our aS^irs, the depredations commiitad
on our commerce, and the probability of a war.
Let us, said Mr. IV., uke a view ol the debates
of that HouH in the year 1793 and 17Si, and he
believed it would be discovered that if the busi-
Deea of negotiation bad not taken place, tbis coun-
try most ktve been involved in a war. It would
be remembered, tba^ a gentleman from Virginia.
[Mi. MABiaoi^] on. the 3d of Januaiy, 179^ laid
on the table of this Hcuse seven resolutions. The
object of wtiich was to compel Britain to come to
some terms of accommodation, and to prevent
further depredatioiu on our commerce.
Af^er adiscusaioD of several weekK, thefirat re-
solution, which was for imposing an additiooii]
duty on the importation i^ a ^reat variety of man-
ufactures from nations hB.ving no Commercial
Treaty wiib the United Stales was agreed ro by
■ small majority. Britain had,said he, e\
(he eud of the war, declined entering i
rcial Treaty with ub. In the mean time,
the danger from British depredation* augmented
with such rapidity that those resolutions became
insufficient, by reaspn of the seizure of an im-
■neose number of our vetaels. in conaequei^e ol
instructions that had been given by the British
Hinistry on the Sih of November, 1793 j and other
4tb (JOK.— 35
resolutions were then moved for the sequeilratiMt
of British property, but the result wa* an embaigo
and negotiation.
Was it not then urged by members of thai
House that the British nation refused to negotiate
with (hem? It was, indeed, suppnied it would be
attended with considerable difficulties, and that a
coQEiderable claae of citizens, let the consequences
be what they might, would not be satisfied with
the result. However, it was thought best to adopt
the meaaure.
But, said Mr. W., let us waive this subject, and
inquire if negotiation had failed, whether war
would not have been the coDMouencel Can it
be supposed that, alter the British had committed
certain spoliations on aureommerce; after their
Order of the 6tb of November, 1793 ; after the de-
claraiioQ of Lord Dorchester to the Indians, that
war .would not have followed 1 The national
pride of Great Britain could not have yielded to
CQmpulsiDD without self-degradation ; and it would
be remembered, too, that from the relation in
which the two countries have stood to each other,
it maxt have coat more to the pride of Britain to
have received tbe law from us than frooi any other
Power. Aud if war bad been the conse(|uence,
how Were we to have recovered tbe amount of
to demand satisfaction ? We have no protection
to our conimerct^ and therefore the British can at
any time arrest it without additional expense to
themselves, having near 600 vessels of war at cator
What had been our situation ever since the ne-
Sotiation'? Have we not, said he, been one of iha
appiest nations upon earth 1 Yet we are about
to oppose the necessary appropriations to carry
into effect that Treaty vrhicb hath been the means
af keeping us in a neutrality, and thereby hazard
a war which may be our ruin.
We Lflve had already new systems of finance
proposed to ua; but if the Treaty is not provided
bir, what hath been proposed will be found insuf-
ficient, and a land tax (although prejudicial to
agriculture) must be resorted lo. At present,
their resources arose from commerce, which,
whenever a war took place, would be effectually
Butgentlemen said there was no probability of
a war at that lime, though, be most confess, all
their actions seemed lo say the contrary. Did
they not appropriate for fortifications, magazines,
dtc.] The Suie of New York well knew tbe
situation of the Public Treasury, and, although the
Constitution of the United Slates declares that
Congress shall provide for tbe common defence
and general welfare, yet thejr, knowing the de-
fenceless Slate of ther capital and frontiers, apnro-
priated upwards of two hundred thousand dollais.
which, with the small pittance of twelve thousand
allowed by CoDgress.and the voluntary assistance
of the city of New York, some considerable works
were erected ; previous to wtiich, and at the time
the negotiator went on his embassy, a ^ipof fonr
or five guns could have laid that city under con-
;dbvGoogie
HISTORY OF CONGfRESS.
H.opR.1
ExectUian «f British Trtaty.
[Apbii, mi.
tribuiion. This wat the sitoattoa of one of tiie
fini cities in the Union, at which was coUecled
(be last year foar-fifleeiiths of the whole rereoue
of the Uailed Slates; and, said be, thus we wete
■itaated when measures of coercion and reprisal
were proposed.
Bat, say the gentlemen opposed to the resotntion,
Great Britain would not go to war with us, they
are embarrassed already. Let me s!<k those gen-
tlemen, said Ur. W., if Britain, when at war
with the United Stales, France, and Spain, did
not declare war against Holland 1 And, also, and
at a time thev mint have been greatly distressed,
what reason tare we to suppose she would not
declare war against us, when it was well known
she could destroy onr coramerce. and lay our sea-
port towns under contribution, or destroy the. most
of them?
It was said, when the British committed depre-
dalioos against the Danes and Swedes, they im-
mediately got redress ; but, the gentlemen do not
tell ut that the British did by tham as they hare
done by us. by paying them for all their daioages.
He believed they did not.
It was said, our negotiator, when he could not
St stipulations agreeable to his inBtructions,
ould have relnrned; bat what necessity was
therefor his return? He had received his in-
structions from the ExecDtive, and when he could
not get a Treaty upon the terms he flrst proposed,
he sought fresh instructions, and aeted upon ibem.
Having returned home, and the Prebideht and
two-thirds of the Senate concorring, the Treaty
was ratified, and promulged ; and can it be sup-
posed,said Mr.W.,thatthePaEsiDeNT and twenty
Senators, coming from different parts of the Uni-
on, men of property, of tried »irtue, and patriot-
ism, would ratify an instrument that woiud ruin
the nation")
A gentleman from Penasylrania, [Mr. Swan-
wiceJ had observed, the Treaty was injurions to
commerce, and that our commercial was eqaal to
our agncultntal interest. If so, said Mr. W., and
we are involved in a war, would not one half bf
the interest of the United States be swept awayf
Gentlemen, said he, argue on the subject of com-
merce, as tnongh we had a navy equal to Qreat
BriUin.
Was it not well known by the negotialor — by
the pBEstOENT and Senate, that we bad a large
debt to pay off; that instalments were becoming
due, and thai in case of war, the expenses of
Oovemmenl would, of coarse, fall upon tbe ag-
ricultural interest 7 Ail things therefore, consid-
ered, the neffoiiator determined upon the Treaty
before us. Happy for America to at he did so;
for, if our commerce had been arrested, all our
pursuits would have been arrested at the same
time. Insteat! of our settlements being extended,
and our commerce wafted to every shore, our
frontier settlements would have been deserted, and
our shii^ laid up.
But, if we arrest the Trtaiy by refusing to
make the necessary appropriations, can we sup-
pose Great Britain will carry the Treaty into ef-
fect on herparfl It would be inconsistent to
think so. Great Britain was certainly ac^oaiated
with What was gomg on within these waUs, and
would refuse to give up the posts at the lime spe-
cified. Who had Ken the canse of the posts being
so long kept from the United States ? The Sute
of New York bad been toolong kept from its Just
due; that State had not prevented the Bntish
from obtaining their debt, and the people now
looked with anxious expectation to (be time
when the posts were to be given up. They were,
at present, considerably alarmed, lest the British
Treaty should not be carried into effecL He had
received letters that morning, from some of hii
constituents, who were at New York, elMleBVO^
ing to sell their produce (for a number of tbe ftr-
mers in that part of the country which be came
from, did not sell their produce to tbe mercbanta,
but attended the market with it themselves.)
They write the price of flour- had already fallea
three dollars a barrel, and wheat four shillings per
bushel. Who were to be the losers, under these
elreumstauees 1 The farmers. Who had the
most produce to sell? The formers in (he State
of New York. The other day a resolution was
laid upon onr table, proposingto lay an embargo
on the ezportaibn of corn. This, if it had been
agreed to, would have had an immediate effect on
the State of New York.
What was (be effect of the etnbargo in ITMl
The farmers were obliged to sell their produce fat
what they could get. Whatever loss was ex-
perienced, fell upon the farmer ; and so it will be
with respect to tbeir present proceedings. IT mer-
chants cannot get insurance, -will they send tbeir
vessels out? No; and they will certainly give
no more produce than they can sell their articles
for, with a trade profit.
The State of New York was peculiarly situa-
ted with respect to Upper and Lower Canada ;
and, if the posts were not given Up, it would prove
more detrimental to them than any other part of the
Union. They would be prevented from a com-
mercial internal intercourse with the Upper and
Lower Canadas. Another Indian war. by whiefa
the frontier inhabitants would be greatly distress-
ed ; iu short, every difficulty would attend them.
On the contrary, should we so conduct oun^lves,
as guardians ol the people ought, by supporting
our public engagementSj we may continue to be
happy. Let this opportunity pass a way —violate onr
national engagements, and there is reason to be-
lieve that contusion and wretchedness will be the
consequence. The commodious harbor of New
York will be attended with hut few vessels, the
beautiful river Hudson will be prevented of its
usefulness, in hearing the surplus <^ our agricol-
lural productions to market ; the trade and in-
tercourse of the towns of Albany, Schenectady,
Troy.Lansihgbargh, and Waterford, arrested ; the
useful settlers not only prevented from going to
the fertile lands by the Lake Champlain, the Mo-
hawk, and Genesee, but the late settlers, who, al-
thougn they be numerous, yet, by being scattered
in settlements, cannot be protected from Indian
depredations, and therefore must remove. In
short, said Mr. W^ the difficulties which woald
.dbyGoogle
IMt
fflSTOKT«F CONGRESS.
1070
Amfl, 1796.3
. Execution of Britigh Tnaty.
[H.0
vnat bv an Indian mr to tlie frmiier of New
York (being at )ea>i SOD miles) at this time, would
be imdaenH. The lofty trees of (he wilderness,
instead of falling by mean* of the aie, would re-
tttftin asa screen and defence for tbe savage, and
■id him him to send the weapon of death to the
defenoelets setller.
Tbe eyes of the world, said Mf. W., are upon
tn; and tbe aiindn of the people in tbe Unitefl
States became more and mor^ plated. How,
nid be, &t« our merehabts lo be recompented for
their spoliations 1 His oolleague, [Mr. Litino-
•TON.l supposed the agricullnraT iaierest must pay
for alf; for it coald not be supposed, that if war
was the consequence, that merchaais or traders
eould be called upon for coniTtbntions. He thought
the resolutioa he had brought forward calculated
to hill tbe merchants into security, without pro-
euriiiR any relief to them ; iw, it was not likely
itiat Govetmmeni sbonid lay taxes to pay money
irbich the British would pay, in ease the Treaty
was carried into effect. Beetdes, as soon as com-
merce ivas Flopped, a system of direct taxation
mast be resorted to. Toe ^loliations on the pro-
perly of the merchants would also daily be Increas-
ed. Atad, according to the doctrine ofibegeo-
tlemanfi-oin Pennsylvania, [Mr. SwAHwiOK,] those
who are masters of the sea are masters of the
land also; so that they stood but an indiB^reot
ehancp iatamrfare witti Orea I Britain, if the doc-
trine of that gentleman be true.
He would a^k gentlemen wHst indoced them to
believe that Great Britain would be williog to n«-
Sjtiaie afresh 7 It had been snggesied by the gen-
emaa from Virginia, [Mr. H&disonJ that ibis
would be the ease, if we do not ])roTide for the
Treaty. — Would they appoint another negotiator
to go to Great Britain ? What fit character would
go? Anil, if any such was found, when he
arrived there what must he say f That the Trea-
ty which bad before beea maae was a bad beigain,
and that he was come to make a better? Would
they say to him, "return-home again, and tell youi
nation thev are a faithless people ; we thought wc
tmderatooa their Constiiuiion, but they do noi
onderstaod it themselves; we will negotiate n<
farther with tbem." — And whatsecurity could this
nrw ncgoiiaior give to tbe British Court that the
Treaty which he might enter into would be agreed
to on his return home? If he said he had re-
ceived bis instructions from the Legislature of the
United States, they might justly answer, there
maybe auch a^an^iu that body on your return,
that the Treaty which you ne^tiate would not
be acceded to. Would, not their objections be
well grounded? He thought they would ; be-
tides, the pRGBinBNT havingfixed a Constitution-
al principle becouldnotvary from it,and of course
no new negotiator could be appointed for that
He would not wish to underrate the powers of
Che United States ; but if they overrated it, they
only deceived themselves. If tbey could preserve
themselves at peace, they were a happy people,
and progrcssin;: quicker ihau any nation in exist-
ence, and in a few years Ihey might .bid defiancr
- any country ; but, in tbemeantime, tbe whole
world could not injure them, if they stood on theit
"vn ground.
It was a good position, be said, for legislalote to
:t for the whole, and not a part ; he believed every
Le would reprobate the idea of a contrary con-
duct. But wliHt had they done ? Tbey bad rati-
fied the Treaty with Spain, because it opens the
Mississippi ; the citizens of ibe State of New
York, also wish the British Treaty to be carried
'-'0 effect, in order that the river Eh. Lawrence
y be opened to the waters of the Lakes both to
the north and weEt; and why not legislate for
them ? This would not only be an advantage to
tbe State of New'Yorfc, but to the whole tfoion.
Gntlemen consider the growing consequence
» York, in which there had been tyat thoit>
sand bouses built the year before lasL It has been
calculated that a century hence that city would
be equal to London. (]io into the Mohawk coun-
try, which is surrounded with rivers and lakes,
very advantageous to agriculture, also lo Lake
Ghamplain, by tbe borders of which the lands are
fertile, lo which Lakes rapid progress is making
for the more convenient conveyance of the sor-
gus of our Bgricultirral productions to the city of
ew York, by inland lock navigation, whichwonid
be extended in a lew years to the waters of Lake
Erie, from thence up a river which is, without la-
bor, navigable for boats calculated to carry a con-
siderable burden, tbe navi^ble part of which ia
only two milra from a navigable part of the Mus-
kingum Id the tiver Ohio ; or at another rivet
boats may be conveyed up it to within nine miles
of the Miami, and tncnce down the same fbrongh
a obam^ine country to the Ohio river. From
this situation and a country so fertileand inviting
to settlers, may w« aot calculate on two or three
millions of people in some years hence, whose
interest must be to carry their produce to the city
of New York, for market? Qenttemen,saidMr.
W~ would do well to pause fora moment, and ex-
amine if the obtaining these posts was not an ob-
jectof the first magnitude. Perhaps he came there
with as unfriend^ an opinion of the Treaty aa
many others, but, on heannz it explained, and tak-
ioga view of our situation, he was now convinced
it would be for the good of the Union tocarry it in-
to effect ; nay, be conceived that policy as well aa
interest required it.
The great Objection against the Treaty was.
that payment for the negroes whreh were carried
away by the British, at tbe close of tbe war, waa
not provided for. It appears that this, at best, was
a doubtful point. (Seneral Carlton, previous to
his leaving New York at tbe close of the war, and
when the negroes were demanded of him, said,
that many slaves bad been declared free by his
predecessors before his own arrival ; over these,
he said, he neither possessed nor could assume
any control. He considered them as at liberty to
go to any part of the world which they thought
mo-pst. He was unwilling to suppose that the
British Ministry could stipulate, by any Treaty,
to make themselves guilty of a notorious breacn
of public faith to people of any color. He eon-
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.OF.R.]
Emaitian tf BriluA TVeofy.
[Apui^ 1796.
ndered rMlorelion, vhere mtepanthle from ■
latioQ of tbat faith, u, in itMU, utterly impnuti-
«able.
It WIS Bckao«rIedged by ereiy geQllemHTt
tlia Treaty of 1783 was broken by ibe United
Blaleciand, if ao, nrhal conld their negotiator do 1
Tfae BritiBh Qoveroment would Dot come into the
■ame teims a* the Treaty of 1783, in the seniie
' ftod meaning of the genileroeD from VirgiDia. nor
would they admit that that Treaty compiled them
logiTeupormake restitution fonlieDegroes. Their
negotiator, thus situated, no doubt concluded that
the amount of the DegToei was not an object which
ought to prevent a negotitftioa so desirable at that
time, and agreeable to the Law of Natious The
TrealT of 1 783 had been violated. Here Mr. W.
quotea several anthoritieSjamon^ which wuMar-
ten'i Law of NatitMii.: " The violation of one ar-
ticle only of a Treaty, by one party, may, at least
auccessively give the other a right to violate the
whole Treaty, unless this right has been formally
teooitooed."
The United States having violated that Treaty,
there was no other way then commencing a ne-
gotiation. And would gentlemen say that the
negotiation had not been attended with beiieficial
consequcDcn to this country i Was not peace the
most to be desired, especially in our present sicua-
liool Had not the managers of our Government
kept a wntchful eye on our afiairs 7 Mad not our
neutrality been the occasion of oar wealth and
proaperitjrl And having nowentered into a Treaty
with Spain, Algiers, and Natives, let us carry that
with Great Britain into effect, and secure lo us
peace with all the world.
The gentleman from Virginia [Mr. MAOiaon]
had observed, that although the obtaining the posts
was a desirable object, yet that condiiions were
aDoexed to the partial execution of it in the sur-
render: that ibecarryin^ places are to be enjoyed
in common, thai the British would have a superior
capital, and that goods being brought by way of
Canada paid no duties. Theae conditions and re-
atrictions [iiaid Mr. Madison] will do away the
benefit which would otherwise accrue, so that the
surrender of the posts woitld be of little value.
But, said Mr. W., let us examine these observa-
tions, wilb the statement the same gentleman
made in 1794, when be was computing ihe annaul
loss to the United States by the retention of those
posts by the British : the Indian war one million of
sollars, ihelossof the fur trade two hundred thon-
tand doiUrs. The tame gentleman, said Mr, W.,
St that lime, went into a summary statement of
the annual losses sustained by this country, by
Britain, and that, he said, in the year 1793 alone
amounted to three mitlioii Bine hundred and forty
thousand dollars. If these calculations, were right,
will the gentleman say the British Treaty is not of
great advantage lo us? The posts, if given up,
mast stand of nearly the same value as in 1794, yet
the genilemen from Viroinia, who had spoken on
this i:ul^ei:t, haddeclarea they would now be of no
benefit. Hecould not believe genllemen were sin-
cere in making those declarations. He believed
(bey ought not lo be made. They were tha aen-
timenta of '• Caio," and otker writers, who were
strangers to that part of the country. But, mid
the genlleman,itwa*impoasible any buefit could
be derived from the posts, because the carrying
places were not also entirely given ap, nu duties
in Canada, &c. Mr. W. said, admitting that no
duties were paid on goods coming by way of
Canada, they never could go so cheap that way
as through New York. It was well known that
the river St. Lawrence was obslructed from six
to seven months is the year, and that the river
above Montreal isalsoofdiScnltnaTJgatimi, from
a violent cnrrent. He believed the genllenian,
however, was mistaken as to there being no duties
in Canada.
Mr. W. said, what be asserted respecting th«
Canada trade, he asserted from his own uow-
ledge, having been engaged in it by way of Lake
Champlain. .To prove tne propensity of the peo-
ple to trade at New York, he would mention that
the inhabitaitts on both .sides of Lake Ctutmplato,
within a day's journey of Montreal, do not trade
there, but come to New York, bringing with them
their wheat, flour, pot ash, and other produce, and
which must be transported by land upwards of
sixty miles. Tbisdimculty would soon be remov-
ed by means of inland lock navigption, whieh is
now progressing.
Again: to put this matter heyonddispnte, when
New York and Canada belonged to Great Britain,
the goods were landed at New York, and convey-
ed to the waters of the Western lakes by way of
the Mohawk river. Can it be supposed, then, if
New York 1 Nov The transportation from New
York to Lake Champlain, and also, by the waf of
the Mobawkriver tothe Western lakes, is beeom-
nore easy and less expensive everyday, by
in of the inland lock navieation, which is ra-
pidly progress ing. The merchants becin to find
itfor their convenience already lo come Ironi Cana-
da by way of Lake Champlain to New York, and
" to Europe, and so vice versa.
Again: Mr. W. called upon themerchanta tore-
fleet on the embarrassraent on trade which mnst
in their not beiitg able to make returns fre-
quently under two years by way of the river St.
Lawrence.
Gentlemen who assert that this trade would be
'nouseto the United Stales, would dowel! to con-
sider those facts, with rrapeel to capital; he was
surprised to hear a gentleman m noted as a legii-
lator, mention such a thing. There was capital
lient and could be procured, in Albany and
Schenectady, in a weeL What sumdid the gen-
tleman suppose was employed 1 Not exceeding
150,000 pounds sterling. Was this even advanc-
ed 1 No. Generally a great part on credit. Gor-
ernmeot had passed an act for the appropriation
of 150,000 dollars towards that object.
^101 her objection was advanced respecting the
iclion. Was it ever known, he asked, that a
savage people would be rentrained to trade with
one class of traders? What did the people of
Fiance and ^riuin do at the Treaty of UtrMfct
>y Google
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Apbil, 179S.]
Exeaitiaa qf Briliah 7V«a(y.
in the ]reu 17137 They lefl the Indians to trade
•I they pleased, and he believed it ibe best wajr.
He did not tbink tbe people of England were
more iodustrious iban the Americaos, or thai they
conld beontdooeby ihem. He did not pretend
to noderatand commerce ; be was a farmer, and
he gloried in it, but when neDtiemeti made asser-
tions, blinded by a wrong Republican zeal,be wish-
ed to notice them.
Let tbem turn their eyes which way they
wouJd, the posts would prove of the greatest ad-
TBOtage to the United States. Numbers of peo-
ple were going into that country to settle. Now
was rbe time to settle the eourte of their trade,
because when settled, it wis not easily altered,
and they ought to embrace iL It would be the
means of keeping Dp a good understanding with
the Indians and ptoTent a misunderstanding, if not
The next objection was with respect to aliens.
It at first surprised him, but upon more mature
examination, he did not see that any law of the
United States would prevent the settlers at the
posts from remaining there. There never was
any difference made in the State of Vermont.
There were not more than two or three thou-
sand people, chiefly French Canadians and their
descendaots at Detroit, and they would no doubt
all wish to become citizens of the United States.
They will either remain and become citizens, or
go beyond the lines. Was it not a principle in
Cheir 'Constitalion to naturalize foreigners 1 They
will find it their interest to become citizens, and
will not remain aliens. Has it not been the gen-
eral policy and practice with us to facilitate natu-
rslization of foreigners? Those people will soon
wish to enjoy natural rights, which is so deeply
impressed in the human breast.
With respect to mercantile priociptes, as the
subject was so ably discussed yesterday by a mer-
cantile man [Mr. Qoooude] it would be only un-
necessarily taking up time to enter upon it again.
The contraband aiiicle had also been ably discuss-
ed by him.
With respect to sequestration, it was said to be
giving power out of their own hands. Shall two
individuals, under one jurisdiction, hecaui« the
two nations disagree, be injured by means of con-
fiscation 1 He hoped not. The consequenees
must be dreadful. And there conld certainly be
no doubt bnt it was the interest of the country to
aupportthe creditor public funds; bnt what would
be the consequence if sequestration was ever to be
resorted to? Would any foreigner choose to risk
his property on sach an uncertain foundation?
Gertainly not; and the price of stock would ac-
cordingly fall in a very seiious manner. But, to
put thi« question out or the way. he believed from
a bir calculation, tbe United States had pfoperty
floating on tbe «ea to the amount of 30 millions,
at tbe least, without defence or protection; whilst
be was of opinion there was not British property
in this country to a larger amount than six or
■even millions. Where then was tbe security for
•equeatraiioB, if whiht we ponld only lay nold
(dT aix or saven miUion^ the Briliah might take
from our metcbants four times (he amount? It
was perfectly clear, that the British, having th*
command of the sea, could obstruct our commerce
as they pleased, and, for the present, we most sub-
If it was beneficial lo Great Britain to carry on
trade with the United Slates, it was abo desirable
lo this country that such trade should be carried
on. It was true Great Britain had given consid-
erable trouble to their merchants; but what was
this owing to 7 It was owing to their attachment
to the French 1 He was not averse from their'
supplying that nation with provisions. It waa
right that they should do all the good they could
to them, because they assisted this country in the
time of their need, and they had « claim upon
thetn in their turn. But considering the matter
in tbis light, was it very stranee that when Britain
stood in need of supplies, ana we were carrying
provisions to her enemy, that she would interrupt
them? Certainly not. How far they were to be
justified he would not say.
If they did not appropriate for carrying the
Treaty into effect, he wished to know what rea-
son cenllemen had to believe they should not be
involved in war? And if so, what was their sit*
uationi We have not, said ht^ any Navy, except
three frigates we have agreed tonave finished. Nor
did he wish to have any. And shall we by rcfuv
igg to appropriate to carry an instrument into e&
feet, by which the country may be preserved in
peace, he guarding the people's rights, or answer-
lag the purpose ror which we were appointed?
Great Britain may not be disposed to declare war
against us, but she may augment the spoliationa
and thereby cauae us to declare
to war with America, tbe West Indies woe
starved for want of provisions. But he v
ask, if that were the case when rhe wa.< at war
with France, Spain, Holland, and America? No
such thing. It was well known, that wherever a
merchant conld get the highest price fbr his mer
chandise, he would Bud means of sending iL
Were not horses sold the other day from Virginia,
to the British, and sent to tbe West Indies to be
employed against the French, because they gave
a good price for them T And would not person*
be found, if they were to go to war tfvmorrow
with Great Britain, who would be ready to sup-
ply the British West Indies with provisions? They
certainly would. Hence they would always be
supplied. Would a eentleman tell me, said bc^
that he was a friend of France, when he wa>
clothed from head to foot with English manufae^
tures?— and who, if be were to go into a shop
where English and French goods were placed be-
fore him, would invariably purchase the English,
being best and cheapest. The tnith was verified
by the tale of horses in Virginia. Were not the
Virsinians much in favor of Prance ? Did ihey
not know the honei were to be tent to the Wear
Indies, to operate against the French ? How warn
.dbyGoogle
16T«
HKTOHT OF CONGSEBS.
Exaeutiim <4 BrUM Trtatp.
[Apu^ 179e.
it that those people told their hones to the EngUih 1
The aniwer i$ easy and at huid, because they
paid the g7'e»te<i price.
The geatleman from Viieinia [fdr. Madison]
concluded with a fine retnatk, viz : " That he si^
foted the PREeiDGiiT had sigaed the instrument
to prcTeot further ipoliBiionB upon the commerce
of our meichants." TJiis was a proof that that
great and good dmd considered the interest of his
constituenls,
Before he sat down he would make a few re-
marks upon what had falleD from the gentleman
from PennsylvaniarMr. SwAHWiuilwho bad dis-
played his oratorical articles upon the checks and
(Hlancesofour Coustiiutioa. He had the honor,
he nid, of beine oae of those who framed the
CoBsiiLutioQ of new York, and he had been a.
member of ihe Legislature ever since, except du-
ring one session. That Coosiilution was stmilar
as to the enacting of laws, to the Constitution of
the United States. Shell we not deliberate, said
that gentleman, be fore weapproisiate S0,000or 90,-
OOOdollirsI Yetitwasoalyiheoiberday when
the same gentleman wished to finish the whole of
the frigate*, which would have required more
than a million of dollars ; but no cautions were
then given about the greBtness of the sum ; indeed
he said it would be only the interest which would
be wanted, because it was a favorite object.
The same gentleman next menlioned the pro-
nhe had St sea, and that he was not afraid of
I was well for that ffentleman, that if his
ship* were taken, he had ouier resources; but this
was Qol the case with many other meichants-
Suppow, however, we were reduced to war, and
the gentleman lost all his vessels ? He himself
could not boast of havioK vessels, but he had a
few acres of land on the frontier which he wish-
ed to have settled ; but in case of a war with the
IndiaDB, the froDiiers will be deserted, and ibe fa-
milies now livine there in peace will be rained. In
the district which he represented, hundreds of ia-
doBirious families, some with sis or eight children
Miece, lived ia log hats, and who, at the sound
of war with the Indians would fly from their ha-
bitations. Gentlemen who live surrounded by
luxuries in a city do not think of the situation of
this claasof their citizens, who were nevertheless
worthy of their consideration. He wished the
gentleman from Pentuylvania, whose valor he did
not doubt, had been with him in the late w«r,
when be oarchedseveoiy miles before tbe enemy,
forty of which with his family in the greatest dis-
tress.
But. says the samegentleman,we ought to have
tbe Tumes opened to ns as freeljr as we open the
Delaware to tne British. He wished it were so.
Tbe whole force erf' that gentleman's doctrine was.
tku the commercial waa equal to the agricultural
inMiest, because three dollars on a barrel waa got
hr carrying flour lo the West Indies; bnt, in case
of war, he wilted to know where he would sell
Us flour, if he could get it ? Would he proceed
>■ the gentlemen in Virginia bad done, in the sale
tg haraei to the British 1 Why hold mt such an
With respect to tbe artiele relative to the Bast
Indies, the people of England and in Ireland, he
said, were greatly disaatilfied with the i>r(vilej^.n
S'ven to fmerioa, and yet it was saia ie tuat
ouse these privileges were nothing worth, that
the British might build warehouses here,aad roin
Ihe trade at present carried on to thai country.
The Treaty, Mr. W. said, allowed the Americans
certain rights with the CompaDy itself, who waa
at a great expense in carrying on their afiairs.
Had they any right, being at no expense, to expect
an equal participation in this trade? Certainly
the? had not
But, gentlemen uy, one third of the maaabc-
tnres of Qreat Britain come to this country, and
therefore she will never go to war with ua. He
had never heard before that more than cme-sizth
of the manufactured of Oreat Britain were brought
to this country. But, said Mr., W. the belter the
trade wa^i to Great Britain the greater her caution
not to wound our reeling; and if the Treaty does
not operate well they will alter it, knowing it to
be their interest so to do.
Theffentlemao from Pennsylvania [Mr. Bwah-
wiok] had said, he was surprised our n^iotiator
did not know tne dexterity and perseverance of
OUT citizens in the extension of commerce, as well
as a member of Parliament of Cheat Britain,
[Mt. Burkel who some years ago, in a speech,
said, that stthough the Americans were but in
thegristle, yet they were extendi Dg commerce toall
parts of the world. We are now, said thatgen-
tleman, as youngmen out-grown theirclothea. Mr.
W. observed, it was analogous as to the protection
of oDi commerce; a young man when he hath
out-grown himself as it is termed, his bones are
too spongy, out of shape, want that solid texture
in the compoaeot parts: our negotiator therefore
endeavored to prevenltoo sreat a pressuie, until
by time it became more solid.
It was true, Mr. W. nid, that great spoliations
had been cninmitted upon the property of our
merchants; but we had no certainty that they
had been committed by the authority of the Bn-
tish Gkiverament. If that nation, or any other,
were determined to make war upon us, he said he
would so as far as any man in opposing force to
force ; out he should be unwilling to promote
measures which were likely to bring them into
that situation, because the pikrtial encroachmeau
on our property in time of war, are triflinK com-
pared to the extensive Geld of expenses, embarras-
ment8,and interceptions, of thepnr«iuta,oowluch
oor true interests depend, which would eventually
follow our being comparatively able to act offen-
sively instead of defensively. Noiratherlrlevery
measure in their power be taken to prevent ao
greatanevilaswar. Wemaycontinne atpeacewith
all Ihe worldj and shall we thenmar the prospect?
Because diSerenoea had crept in betwixt two
branches of their Qovernment, shall we suffer
them to destroy our prosperity and peace? No;
let us look forward to the public good, and do
away all private retentment.
It waa to be lamcBttd that ao nooh of party
was obsernble in ihek proceedings. The gentl*-
.dbyGoogle
HiarORT OF CCNVGH£S8^
Apri^1796.]
SxeaUum of British Trtaty.
[aopR.
man from PeDIl8ylva^ia fMi. Maci^y] had laid
a resolutioa upon the^ table, calculated to defeat
they DDwdebating'upoD ? Had not the discussioD
beta solicited by the majority of that House 1 It
■WM, and he would venture to say, there never
iraa before as instance of a majority wishiog to
conviace a minority. If gentlemen were deter-
mined.io destroy the Treaty, let them come for-
waid and do it. Why waate ao much precious
time and moaey nnnecessarity 1
The will of the people was expressed in the
Constitution, and be hoped it would be obeyed;
for, if it was not, the consequence would be dread'
f\iL When he \eH bome, three fourths of the
people were against the Treaty, but now, by let-
ters be had teceived, a very lar^e majority wished
it to be carried into effect, scving that tne peace,
the happiness, and the prosperity of the country
depended upon iL
What were the acguments of gentleniea 1 Be-
cause the PasatDENT has refused to send them cer-
tain papers that were asked for. they were deter-
mined to destroy the Treaty. Was this acting
like tbe Repieseatalives of a free people 1 Be-
cause if they were of opinion the pBEaincNT bail
done wrong, should they do wrong also 1 Did they
ever kaow that two wrongs made a right 1
The instrument should be taken up fairly, and
the quesiioQ should be solely met upon the ground
of public advantage. If it was thought for the
advantage of the Dnit^d Stales to destroy ilie
Treaty and take the consequences, be must sur-
render bis opinion to the will of a majority. He
gloried to jam inamajoiiiy. He bad never desired
a man itk the majority to change bis opinion.
Why, then, is it said the minority wanted to ciam
the Treaty down the majority's throats? But he
would beg gentlemen to pause for a moment; for
it was well Known that men of sense may some-
times be so far prejudiced in their own opinions.
at not 10 be able to see the truth. He believeil
ev«ry membtr acted oi he thousht was for the
bett, but prejqdice might have laid too fast a hold
upon some of them. He hoped they should act
fo{ the benefit of the Union at large ; and if so.
he hoped gentlemen who had voted for opening
^e Mississippi would take a view of the river St.
Lawrence, tbe Lakes, and New York. He hoped,
however, the business would be settled with can-
dor, and if so. he UQsted harmony and confidence
would be the eoitstqaence.
When Mf. WiluxUs bad concluded —
Mr. HiLLROuaa rose and said, the subject
under consideratioo was ona of tne first io mt ^
tude he had ever been called to deliberate upon,
and that the circumstances under which it came
tip were peculiar, for, previous to the Treaty's
beioe either promulgated or known, a hne-and-cry
had been raised, and the prejudices of the people
as much as possible excited against it. and he con-
fessed it had not twen without its effect upon his
own mind. When the Treat? cameout, therefore,
hft wa^ led t9 cxaivn^ it wita atteatipn, compare
with our Treaties with other nations, and thosa
between Great Britain and other nations; the re-
lit of this inquiry was^ that he found that no
privilege or advantage given by Great Biilain to
other nations was withheld from us; that advan-
tages were secured to us which were enjoyed by
no other nationj nor even by her own subjects;
that we gave her little ibat was not enjoyed by
every other nation ; and, on the whole, that it was
as good a Treaty as we bad a right to expect, and
as he had ever expected lo obtain. He was sensi-
ble (hat prejudice, which, like a sentinel at the
door of the human mind to keep out truth and
argument, had induced many good citizens of the
United Stales at first to be opposed to the Treaty,
who, upon beiUjg prevailed on to give it a more
candid examination, had declared in favor of it j
but be hoped the Repfesentalives of the people,
called CO decide on a question which might aSect
the dearest interests of millions, would, as much
possible, divest themselves of prejudice an^
isiou: to do i[ entirely, he believed, was im-
possible.
The 6rst, and, if well-founded, the most io^
portant objection which he bad beard made against
the Treaty was, that a claim for n^roes and olhei
property carried away from New York bad tieeii
wholly overlooked or given up by our Minister.
Here, he said, he was sensible any argument he
light adduce would be opposed by the paVty opin-
)DS formed at the time — when judpng in our
wn case, and when we felt a ^eat degree of sen-
ibility for the losses and injuries we had recently
experienced. He was not unapprised that Cou-
gress bad claimed that the construction of the 7th
article of the Treaty was such as to require the
delivering up of the negroes, and had passed the
resolution read by the gentleman from Virginia,
[Mr. Heath,] and that that opinion had. without
examination, been implicitly followed by many
respectable characters; but he hoped, at this dis-
tance of time, he miffbt expect a candid hearing,
whilst he examined tnetr arguments and the Law
of Nations, to which alone resort can be bad to'
decide differences between sovereign and inde-
pendent nations. To bis mind ibey were conclu-
sive tbat we had not a well-founded claim; to.
every mind, he believed, ihey would render thc^
claim at least doubifuL
Hit first inquiry, be said, should be, whether
negroes were to be eousidered as property 1 This,
he believed, must be admitted: they were tbua
recognised by the article itwlf, which says "aft-
groes or otber property." Negroes being men*
tioQed amountn only to a specification of one kind
of property ; as, in (he Constitution, it says "capi-
tation or other direct taxes,''wbichi3aconclusiv«
reco{|nitioa tbat a capitation tax is a direct tuc,
wiihm the meaning of the Constitution. Upoa
no otber ground (ban that of property could (ha
United States claim them ; as men, they had ft
right to go where they pleased. Our Commis-
sioners, at the time of the embaikatioDj had im
hesitation in declaring that they considered "oo-
groes, horses, and other property," as being pr«'
cisely on the same footing, and selected a claim
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS..
H.orR.]
BxeaUim of BritUk Trtaty.
[Awi^l79B.
for s hone ax one of the strongest ihai could be
fouod lo enforce a compliance with this construe-
tion of the ariicle. The claim was in these words:
" Mr Vanderburgh bad ■ hone ttolen from him. out
oThia (table in Beekmui'* Precinct, in Dutchem eoun-
tj, 36th Febiua^, 1780. end the horte nei convejcd
bj the penon trbo stole him to e then Brilieh poet, in
Weatcheater county, nheie heheasioce been detained ;
ao thet Mr. Vu]derbuij;h could not recoTer bim egaio.
The hone is now in the poamaioti of Col. Jamea De
Laaoc]!, of Uiia dtj. Ironl whom Mr. VandeTbuigh hu
demanded him, and who refbees to deUior him to Mr.
Tandeiborgb."
la the letter of Ibe Commissioners to Qeoeral
WABHl^oTON, on this subject, they say:-
" In the interriew between the Ifith and 84tfa, i
beia applied l» ua far a reatilution of their negroes and
other propnitj in tha poaaession of others, but we
posed it moat eligible to defer a requiulion till a
anequiioral case, similar to that oF Mr. Vanderburgh'a,
where the pronb were at hand and not embarraned
wilk the circamataneesof acajrturein waror alhei _
teneea under whidi propeitj ia withheld hero, should
present itself; aemdble thst if reatitntion waa denied in
■och an inatanc*, it would intTitabl; be in cTerj other."
It therefore appears clear that negroes, horses,
and other properly, were, by this article, placed
upon the saii)e footing, and that it was a? much a
Tiolaiioa of the Treaty to carry away a horse as a
oegro.
He next proceeded to inquire what was the
ailuationof lois property, and in whom, according
to the Law of Nations, it wax vested at the time
of ezecutioB the Treaty 7; This point, he said, Mr.
Jefferson II ad fully settled to his haod, aod load
out of his coUectioa the following extracts:
" We now come together (eeja Mr. Jefferaon) to
aider that inatrament which waa lo heal our waonds,
and begin a new duplet in our history. The state in
which Uiey found thinga is to be considered as rightTul ;
so Bays the Law of Nationa'— VoUe/. The state in
which things are foDud at tho noment of the Treaty,
should be considered aa lawful, and if it ia meant to
make anj- change in it, the Treaty muat eipreasly
mention it. Consequently, all thinga about which th:i
Treatr ia (ilent,mnBt remain in the stale in which they
■re found at its conclosion. — Bynk, Bince it is a eon-
dition of war that enemies may be deprived of all their
rights it is reasonable that tnerj thing of aft enemy'a,
Iband among his enemies, should change its awnen,
and go to tbe Treaeuij. It is moreorer usually directed,
in aU dedaialions of war, that the goods of enemies, aa
well those found among us as thoaa taken in war, shaH
be confiscaled."
These authorities, he said, clearly prored that
all negroes and other property which in the course
of the war had been taken, or in any war had
fallen into the hands of the British, had shifted
their owner, and were no longer the properly of
the American inbabitanls. In the ease of negroes,
tbe British Coramander-in-Chief had exercised
the highest ac* of ownership, by mannmltting such
of them 89 should conform to certain stipulations,
pointed ont in his proclamation. If any change
was intended to have been made by the Treaty m
the circunistBDces of these n^roes, and it had
been intended they shotild be again returned into
bondage, there would have been some express
stipulation to that' effect in the Treaty. The
words are, "and Irlthout causing any destruction.
or carrying away an v negroes or other property of
the American inliaoiUnts, withdraw all his ar-
mies," &c. There.is nothing that indicates the least
intention that this article should have a retro-
snective op eraiioti. It can only relate to property
then belonging to the American inhabitants.
Wherever any article waa intended to have a re-
trospective operation, so me expression ia used that
clearly shows such intention. In this same arti-
cle, speaking of delivering op records, dee^ls, ic.,
these words are added, " which in the course of
the war may have fallen into the hands of his
ofBcen," &c. inthe 4th article, "debts heretofore
contracted." Any other coostrnction would have
required the restoration of vessels which had been
liken from the 'Americans, and were then in New
York, under Ihq term "other property," as well
as negroes and horses, Ifany negroes or other
property, in the possession of the American in-
nabitants at or alter signing the preliminary arti-
cles, were carried off, it was no doubt a violation
of tbe Treaty, but he had not understood that they
refused to deliver up property of that description,
or tbat such property was carried off tu any great
But this mattfcr does not rest only on there be-
ing no words in the Treaty which can be con-
strued to have a retrospective operatian, but it is
fairly to be infefred from the papers contained in
(his same collection of Mr. jEFrcRsoif, that it was
so understood by the negotiators; for, in the eonrse
of that negotiation, it appears to have been a pri-
mary object wUh the British Minister to obtain
restitution of the Tory estates, or compeoMtion
for them. They almost made a RRe9uanoii.and
a refusal to comply had welt nigh broken off the
negotiation ; and to induce the British Minister
to relinquish that artiele, our CommisEiooers
brought in a claim for negroes and other property
whicn had been taken, and towns and villages
which bad been destroyed during tbe war. He
here read the followiog letter- from Mr. Oawiid.
the British Minister,to our Commissioners, vii:
"Ton may remember, that &am the very beginning
of oor negotiation for settling a peace between Great
Britain and America, J insisted that yon should poii-
tnelj atipulate for the restoration of the propeKy of bO
those under the denaminalian of Loyalists or Refugee^
who have taken part with Great Britain in the pnent
war ; or if the property bad been resold, and y^
into such variety of huids as to render tha rastofatioD
impraetiLablc, (whioh you assert to be the case io many
mstancea,) jon ahonld atipulala fin a coapensalioo or
indeninifiealion U those pmona adequate to their lasaM.
To those pnpoaitioaa, yon said, you could not aceoda.
Mr. 8tacbey,sinoe his arrival at ^ris,has moat strenu-
ously joined me in insisting upon the said teatihition,
compensation, or indemnifieatton, and in laying betbrs
yon tvery argument in favor of the deman'da, founded
on national honor, and upon the troe prindplea of ju*.
tice. Those demands you must have understood to ex-
tend, not only lo all persona of the abovemcntioned do-
■oiption, who have fled to Enrcpe, but tikowise to aU
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
1083
t.1796.]
Execution of Brituh TYeaty.
fM.oFR.
timmB who mij now be in snj part of North Amerka,
dwelling nndei tha pnilHtion of Hi> Majaitj'a «iui, or
othenriia. Wa h>*e ilao imuted on a mntu*! stiputB-
tion fat a general amnesty <»i both ndM, compTehend-
ia( Iherabj an enlargameitt of alt penona wbo, on ac-
eoiintof oBeiicea conunittcd, OT inppoaad lobe commit-
ted, since the commencement of bootilitlee, maj now be
in confinement, and foi an iipmediate repoasnsion of
^irpropertiea and peaceable enjoyment thereof, under
tha GoTeromeDt of the United Slitea. To this jou
ban not gnen a pajticBlai and direct answer. It ia,
hoanm, incambent oh ue, aa Comnnaionar of the
King of Orcat Britain, to repeat the leveral demaivlt,
and without going over tboae MgninenU upon paper,
which we have so often uiged in eonvenation, to press
joiir immediato auontion to thoM snb^ecta, and to urge
yon to enter into pmper atipulaliaDi to their rerttotjon,
, compoiuHtioD, and anuteaty, before we proceed fiirthet
in ihia negotiatioa."
To which our Coinniiwioaen retara«d the fol-
" In anawo- to the letter you didnidw honor to write
on the 4th instant, we beg leaTe to repeatwhal we often
■aid in ccaiTersalion, ni : diat the restoration of auch i
the estates of the refugees as have been confiacaled,
imprmcticable, because they were confiscated by laws of
particular States, and in many jnatances hsTO pasaed
by legal tiljes ttiroagh seTeral bands. Besides, sir, as
Ihia is a matter evidenUy appertaining 10 the internal
policy of the sepsrate States, the Congress, by the na-
ture of onr Constitution, haxe no authori^ to interfere
with (L As to yODr demand of compensation to tbosi
penons, we Ibrbear ennmenitLng onr reasons fbi think-
log it ill-founded. In the moment of conciliatory oier
tnres, it wonid not be pn^MT to caU certain scenes into
view, over which a Tarie^ of considentionB should in-
daos both parties at present to draw a veil Permit ns,
thereftne, only to repeat, that we cannot stipulate for
such onnpenBalion, unlaas on your part it be agroed to
tnakerestitntiiHl toour citiMnsroitbe baavy losses they
bare sustained by the nnDoeesMiy deatructiot] of priTats
im^eiqr. We have ahwuly agreed to an amnesty more
extensile than jnalica required, and full as eitensive aa
bmnanity woald demand ; we can, therefore, only re-
peat, tliat it cannot be extended further. We should
be Sony, if the slbsolute impossibility of OUr compi _
further with your propositions, should induce uroat
Britain to continue the war, for the sake of those who
caused and [Rotonged it ; tiut, if that should be the case,
we hope that the utmost latitude will not be again given
to its rigara. WbatcTer may be the issue of this nego-
tion, be assured, sir, that we ahall always acknowledge
the tibeial, manly, and candid manner, in which you
have GOndnctad it."
Id consequence of inrorinalion TrDm our Com-
missioners tbat the cUim was rnade and pertina-
ciously insisted on by the British Minister, Con-
gress passed the following resolutions, viz:
*• Saohed, That the Secretary for Foreign AfGun
be, and he )s herel^, directed to obtain, aa speedily as
poaaible, authentic returns of the slaves and other pro-
perty which luve been carried oCT or deatroyed in the
cotirae of the war by the enemy, and to transmit the
same to the Ministsra Plenipotentiary for negotiating
" Retolttd, That, in tha meantinie, the Baeratai; for
Foreign AfGiira inform llie aaid Miniatars, that many
IhfMi— w'* at slave*, and other pmparty lo ■ vary giaU
amount, Iiava been carried off or dastrojad by the ene-
my, and tliat, in the opinion of Congress, the great loss
of proper^ which the citiiens of the United States have
sustained by the enemy, will be conndned bj the seve-
ral States as an iniupeiable bar to their making teatitu-
tionor iAdemniflcationlothe former ownen of property
which has beeo or may be forfoited to, or confiscate by,
any ot llie States."
Dr. Fba'hkliu, in ■ letter to the British Mini>-
"I most repeat my opinion, that it is best for you to
drop all mention of the refugees. We have proposed,
indeed, nothing bnt what we think best, for yon as well
as Duiselves. But if you will have them mentioned,
let it be in an article which may provide that they shaD
exhibit accounts of their losses to Comnlsaionen hete-
afler to be appointed, who shall examine the same, to-
gether with the accounts now preparing in America of
the damages done by tltem, and state the account ; and
tbat if a Inlance appeara in their ftvor, it shall be paid
by us to you, and by yoo divided among them, sa you
shall think proper. And if the balance b found doe to
us, it shall be paid by yoo. Give me leave, however, to
advise you to prevent so dreadful a discussion, by dni[h'
I ping the article, that ws may writb to America and
stop the inquiry."
The foUoning article was accordingly drxwh
up, and proposed to be inserted in the Treaty,
viz:
» It U agreed tbat His BiitannieMajea^ will euBeatly
recommend it to hia Pariiamant to provide for and uaka
compensation to the merchants and shopkeepers of Boa-
ton, whose goods and mercbsndist ware seised and
taken out of the stores, warehouses, and shops, by order
of General Gage, and others of his commanders or offi>
cars there; and also the inhaliitsntB of Philadelphia, for
the goods taken away by his army there ; and to make
compensation also for the tobacco, rice, indigo, negroes,
Ac, seiied and carried off by his annies under Grnerala
Arnold, Comwallis. and othen, from tha States of Vir-
ginia, North snd South CaroUna, and Georgia: And
also for an vessels and cargoes belonging to tha inhabit-
ants of the said United States, which were slopped,
seized, or taken, either in the pOrts or on the seas, I7
his Governors, or by his ships of war, before the dod^
ration of war aniart the aaid Slates. And it is fiip-
ther agroed that His Britannic Majesty will also seinestlj
recommend it to his Parliament 10 meke compensatioa
for sll the towns, villages, and brms, burnt and deitroy-
ed by tiis troops or adherents in the said United States."
After pressing the matter to the ntmost eitent,
we find, bf Mr- AniiUa's Journal, tbat oa the even-
ing previous la signing the Treaty, the Minister*
on both sides came to the following result:
" Upon this I recounted the history of Gen. Gage**
agreement with the inhabitants of Boston, tbat they
should remove their effects, upon condition that they
would (UTTcnder their aims ; but as soon as the am*
were ascnred, the goods wei« forbid to be carried out,
and ware fioaJlj carried off in large quantities to Hali-
fax. Dr. Fraukiin mentioned the case of Philadelphia,
and the carrying off effects there, even hia own librai;-'
Mr. Jay mentioned several olher things ; and Mr. La^
rens added the plunder In Carolina, of negroes, plate,
Ac Altai hearing ail this. Mi. FitxheilMrt, Mr. Os-
wald, and Mr. Stagey, retired Iot some time, and rs>
taming Mi. Fitdunbeit aaid, that upon consulting to-
gMher, and wslghtof mwtrjlM»g e« matara^ as pem-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGHBSS.
H. OF R.]
EmoHvm cf BrUUh Trtahf.
lud propoMd, u to oui uldnutum rsapectius the fiih-
07, uia the loyaluts. Accoidisgly ne aH wt down,
load over tha wb<dc Tr«a^ uul coireded it, uid agreed
to meet lo-nwwNw at O'b hoiua, to ngn and seal th>
ethe
ofa<
Ij taken ia the conise of the war? If that bad
l>een meaoi, would it not have been improper to
have urged it as an argument aTaiiist the mtio-
duction (ifaji'&rlicle which would have subjected
Ibis coQDlry to imiaeDse embairaEsmeot and
ezpeDse7
It ia true that the Uoiud States dij ehalLeage
negroes and other properly, which had fallen into
the hands of the Btitiah previous to signing the
Trealjr. This circumstance, for the reason he had
meDtioned, and others that miffht be sug^esLed,
oMght 10 hare very little weight, for it is well
known that recriminations of a Ticdation of the
Treaty soon commenced on both sides, and each
mastered up every tolerable claim ; many of which
have since been admitted on both sides to be
grovDdleKs. A circumstance which strongly cor-
loborated what he said was, Sir Ghiy Carlton's
letter on that subject bad also been so erossly mis-
imderstood and misrepresented, from that time to
thin, aod now advanced by a gentleman on this
floor, [Mr. Gileb,] and even by Mr. Jefcerbom—
in this instance departing from that candor which
is *o conspicuous in almost every, other part of
this eieellent performance — for, when speaking
on this subject, ne says, "here there was a direct,
nuequi vocal, and avuwed violation of this part of
the 7th article, in the first moment of its being
known." Mr. jEPFERaoN has given us a copy of
Sir Qay Carlton's letter to Geoeiel Wabhinoton,
which IS relied on to support this assertion, which
ia so far from speaking suoha language, that in his
opinion, it was directly the reverse, and that in a
Tery pointed manner. His words are:
" I mnat confess, that the mere sajmosition that the
King's Minister could deliberately stipolale in a Treaty
an ensBgement to be guiltj ofa natoiious breach of the
Sablic faith tonorda people of any complexion, seema to
gnote a lees friendly diapositian than I could wish, and
I think leas friendly than t*e might expect After all,
I only give my own opinion. Every negro's name ia
ngirtered, the master he formerly belonged to, witbaucb
other dicnmatances ■■ aerre to danoto hia ndue, that it
may ba ndjosted by compeiuatii»i, if that was really the
inlantion and meaningof the Treaty. BestoratJon was
inaanrable Iram a breach of public faith, and is, as I
thiol all the world muat allow, utterly impracticable."
Oen. WAStiinaTOit, at that time, seemed disrhi'
elinedlo eive an opinion on that subject, but inti-
mated the propriety of leaving any doubtful
clause of the Treaty to be settled by future nego-
tiation ; for in a letter from him to our Commis-
sioners in New York, dated June, 1T83, who had
writleo to him for particular and pointed instruc-
tions on this very subject, there is this passage :
*■ It is nceadioc diANlt l>i»HMtB«tbeipg»wjttMHB
cODiseortha eTaeuatioD.togiveyon a piedaa definition
of the acta which you are tc repreaent ai in&actioiu of
the Trea^ ; nor can I undertake to give an official eon-
atruclioii bf xaj particular expression or tenna of dw
Treaty, which must, in cases of ambigoily or diffimst
interpretations, be explained by the Sovereigntiea of the
two natiana, 01 their Commisaioners appointed for that
A letter drawn up with great cautioa and es-
tremsly ebantcteristio of that groit man, who hu
always been eitremely careful never to commit
himself, but upon mature deliberation and up<«
sUre ground. Here, Sir Gay Carlton, as a puhlie
officer of Great Britain, had made an explicit de-
claration on the subject, and that wis directly
against our claims ; for his directing an inventory
of the negroes, was only an evidence of hisbeiog
disposed to conduct candidly in the matter, ana
of the Treaty to be tight.
Both in the United States and Great Britain it
is admitted, as a sound rule of construction, thit
where any law or instrmncnl is doubtful, and the
liberty of any one, even of a slave, to be effected br
was to be preferred which
thi? Treaty to be so construed as to reduce ii
very three thousand persons who had obtained,
their liberty, by putting themselves under the pro-
tection of the British arms, unless there was some
positive unequivocal stipulation in the Treaty
which could admit of 00 other construction, he
hoped, for the honor of America, they would uiake
no such chHllenee. There was another circumr
stance which he had never seen mentioned, which,
in his opinion, greatly weakened out claims, whidi
was the doubts he eotsrtained of oor right to de-
mand of a foreign nation the rtetitntion of a raiH
away slave. The United States are now at peace
with all the world ; suppose a slave skotiLd escape
into the dominions of a foreign nation, and on
demand tbey should refiTse to deliver tiitn npl
he very much doubted whether we should have
just ground of complaint. On the other hand,
if anv of our citizens may be so uafortunate
as to oe reduced to slavery by any of the ^rbary
Powers in Africa^ shotild make their escape into
the dominions of any of the Euiopean nation:^
and upon being claimed by such Powers, should
be deuvered up, he did believe we should have
good ground of complaint against such nation, as
being unjust and inhumane. And, so tar as prto-
ciple is concerned, what difference does it make
whether the citizens ut the United States are car-
ried into slavery in Africa, or the inbabitantE of
Africa are brotight into slavery in the United
Statesl he knew of no principle that made a dif-
ference between the natural rigbts of a white or
black man. The first principle that is laid dowa
in the rights of mau, is, that all men are born free
and equal ; it does not say all vKiU men. He did
not b«lieve, he said, that the lEiouse would ever
admit to abBurd a dootrine, as,thU th« difieresl
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HISTORY OF CONORBSSj
io»a
AraiL, 1796.}
Execution of British IVet/ty.
[H.OPR.
shades in a man's eomplexioa would increase or
dtmioish his natural rigtis. He hoped do geiate-
man would talce any ezceplioa to what Ee had
said on thU point ; be did not mean lo gire ofleDce,
or to throw any reflection on anv part of the Uni-
on. oaaccDuniof their having aWger proportion
of slaves. It was aa eril i^ich eiisted at the
cotameDcement of our Revolution, and he trusted
every part of the Vnioo would get rid of tbeevil
asaooa at it should be practicableandsafe. WiuU
he bad said, was only what he fell himself bound
to do in jusli£caiioQ of our Minister for his bavioe
eiven up that dajm. The next objection, he said,
taat he should notice, was, that we suffered alfens.
who were settled around the posts, to remain ana
eajoy their property, and have their election (o.
become citizens or not. From the stress laid on
this objection, he had been led to imagine i( an
evil of great magnitude, and that there were vast
numbers of these aliens who mi^ht cause great
alarm or danger to the United Slates, ana being
anacquainied with that country, he had made
some inquiry^ and found that none of the posts
except Detroit and M ich ill mack inae, have any
settlers around them: that these are principally
the descendants of the old French inhabiianls,
who were permitted to remain and enjoy iheir
fi'SV
I by France ; thai a few English, Scotch,
and Irish, have inlermineled among them, but to
a small amount ; that tney are attached to the
soil, and that from the solicitude manifested by all
foreigners to become citizens of the United Stales
there was little doubt bat that ihey would unite
Ibetnselves to us. It must be recollected, too, that
we not only did not discourage, but rather gave
countenance, to the introduction iato our Atlantic
ports of the English, Scotch, and Irish, from this
same nation, who are continually impcarting by
ship loads— some of them, it is trne, men of cha-
racter and property, most of them without propei^
ty, and some without character or properly, and
permitted ihem to reside as foreigners, if they
choose it. Me could not, therefore, account for
gentlemen's alarm an this head.
The next objection he noticed was, to the 18th
article, which relates to contraband goods. It is
admitted by the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr.
Madisok,] that ii does not extend to any article
not coDlranuid by the Law of Nations, yet he re-
grets it being introduced, as it may be cmiidered
as more than an acquietcence on our part, that
the Lew of Nations should have an operation to
that extent and, in a degree, as subscribing to the
doeitine. If this article comprised all contraband
goods, he should join with the gentleiBsn and say,
ihere vras no reason for iis inbt>daction into the
Treaty I but he could show a rerygood reason why
it was introduced, and which was peculiarly inter-
esting to ihe State be had the honor to represent ;
it exempted an important arlicle o( eipori from
this country from the list of contraband, which is
made so by our Treaties with Spain, France, and
all other nations excepting Prussia, in whicn no-
thing is to be conlnband. He meani, he said, the
ardcle of hones which are grown in the United
Statesj in great numbers, and for which we waoC
a foreign market. By the official return in bia
hand, he said, it appeared that, in the year 1792;
there were expocced 5.556 horses ; of these, Con-
necticut exported 4,349. The course of this trade
has generally been to other than the British West
India lalantis, mostly to those of France, which
adds vastly to the importance of the article. He
hoped none of the sister States would be so un-
generous as to object to the insertion of this arti-
cle, so important to Connecticut, when it would
be admitted, on all hands, that the insertion could
not possibly operate to the di&advautage of any
In the same article, the regulations relative to
provision vessels is objected to, the last in the
whole Treaty he should have expected would
have met with any objection, for it is altcwether
in our favor, and a candid reading of it wilfshow
the stipulations to be, that, if a vessel laden witl^
provisions or other articles which are contraband
IS taken, (and no others are thereby authorized to
be taken,) which, by the Law of NaCioDE, would
be liable to trial and condemnaiiou in a Court of
Admiralty, instead thereof, they shall be paid for.
with a reasonable mercantile profit, freight, dtc.
stipulating, also, that, when vessels are found
^oing to a oesieged or olockaded place, not know-
ing uereof, they sliall be turned away, and not
seized, a^ by the Law of Nations,.they wotUd be
liable to be ; and that vessels or goods found in a
besieged place shall not, upon tne surrender of
such place, be liable to confiscation. Two win-
ters ago, he well remembered, ihalcomplaint was
made on that floor against Great Britain, because
she allowed such advantages lo Denmark, with
whom she had a Treaty to that effect, and oenied
them to us, and now tne Treatv which contains
this stipulation is complained of oy the sune aen-
tlemen. What are we to think of a cause, where
resort is had to such arguments and objepiions as
these lo defend it, and that, too, by gentlemen o(
such ingenuity and abilities.as it must be confessed
Ihey possess, and who would be able to find solid
arguments and objections if there were anv, and
would never resort to those that were weak and
inconclusive, if there were any that were belter,
any more than a drewningmao would catch at a
straw, when there was anything more substantial
within his reach?
The 17lh article, relative to neutral bottoms
not making free goods, has been objected to, and
generally considered as an impolitic slipulation.
Here it may be remarked, that this article is in
just conformity to the Lawof Naiions,and it was
not possible to alter it without the consent of
Great Britain, which there was not the least pro-
bability of our obtaining, she having generalljr re-
fused 10 make such &iipulation with other nauoM.
And, be said, he had his doubts of the policy of
this measure, as it related lo Ihe Unitea Slates.
Had Great Britain been willing, our onW reaott,
in case of a war with that nation, wouln be our
privateers; with these we cjuld greatly annoy
and distress her trade ; tbey would be, as a genilo-
man ttic other day s«U, our militia on the owait i
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fflSTOKY OF CONGRESS.
H-opR.]
Execution of Briti*h Treatg.
[APBI^ 1796.
bat if neutral bottoms were to make free goodk,
it iroald be in their power to defeat mosi of our
operations io this yny, hj employing neutral bot'
toms to carry goods to such places as were mosi
exposed to our prirateers; and where a small
number of vessels were necessary, and lendiog
Aeir oilier merehajitmen under coavojt, whicn
they would be able to afford to the more imparcant
branches of their trade. We are differently
curastanccd from the European nations, moi
whom hare fleets sufficient to demolish almost
any convoy, and priTateering would not so much
be an object ; they could get sopplies nnder the
eouToy of their own ships, but we have nothing
that could meet a single ship of-the-line, or to eon-
Toy any trade or supplies, and must depend whol-
ly on privateering. The more diffusely their pro-
perty was spread on the ocean, therefore, and the
more ways in which we could come at it the bet-
ter. The only advantage we can derive from such
an article eoold be, that, in time of war, we miehi
become the carriers of other nations; but, when
we consider the distance those nations are from
ns, the immense quantity and bulk of the produce
of our own country, which require transportation,
it cannot be a matter of vast moment. No doubt,
we can find sufficient employment forour naviiro'
tion. The pecaliar circumstances of the West
Indies has, perhaps, made that a more important
object in the present war, than ii ever would be
again. Another circumstance which grearly less-
ened the importance of such an article, was the
small probability of its being strictly observed.
We have such an article in our Treaty wiih
France, but it has not been mneh regarded by
that natiouj noi will any nation at war be very
scrupulous in such a case.
It had been his ii^tentioo, Mr. H, said, to have
taken a view of the commercial advantages wiiich
the United States might expect to derive from this
Treaty, which opens to us the fur trade, and the
trade into Canada and the Ba.'tt Indies ; which, in
his opinion were of vast importance to the Unit-
ed States, but those advantages having been so
ably pointed out by the gentreman from Massa-
ehusetts [Mr. Goodooe] who, on the hubjeci of
commerce, subjoins practical knowledge with the-
ory, who represents the most commercial part of
the United Stales, there being more than one-third
part of all the tonnage in ihe United Stales own-
ed in the State which he reprejents, he should
only declare ihat he fully subscribed to what that
gentleman bad said on that subject, and be doabt-
ed not it would have weight with the Committee,
■s many of them must have Ibund that the in-
formation which thai ^ntleman had, ever since
the esiablishmept of this Gki verm cent, been in the
habit of giving, on all commercial subjects, was
Candid and correct. He woold, however, make
one remark, arising from particular information
on the subject of the fur trade, which *as, thai a
eooRiderable proportion of the furs which had sup-
plied the Eastern market, had been obtained for
many years nasi by a contraband trade, in which
it was calculated to lose nearly one-fiftn part. If
the trada could be carried on under these diaad-
vantages, surely, when our merchants can enter
into that trade upon a certain and perfectly fair
fooling, there is litlle doubt that they can carry it
oD sDcessfully.
He next prooee<]ed to remark on article lOlh,
which respects aeqaestration. He would, he said,
lay out of the question everything that related to
the morality of the measore. Many things which
relate to war might not, perhaps, be psrlectiy re-
concilable to the strict principles of moralityi
be should take it up in a political point of view
only, and could not conceive of any possible state
of Ihiof^s which could make it either politic, or
for the interest of the United States, to resort lo
Weai
icha
to come will be, opening for the improvement of
caiiilal, which can only be supplied by the substi-
tution of credit. If we were once to resort to such
a measure, it would make all loreienerB afraid to
trust their moi^y in our hands. Admitting thai
we might lay oar bauds upon fifteen or twenty
millions of dollars, and supposing (a supposition
hardly possible for satisraclion for private debts,
when national differences are settled, i< generally
insisted on) that no restitution was in fart to be
required upon ihe final adjustment for what was
actually recovered or loit in consequence of such
an act, the loss of credit, and consequent injuries
that would arise, would eventually subjeci us to
losseii lo ten times the amount, and we should lite-
rally fulfil the old proverb of a "penny wise and
a pound foolish." The consequences of sucb a
measure woh(d be ruinons to our most enterpris-
ing, promising yonng men, the rising hopes of our
country, moat of whom begin the world with lit-
lie more than abiNties to do busioess, and a fair
character, credit is ready money to them, ii is their
stock in trade, and puts them upon an equal foot-
ing with the great capitalist. For the troth of
this remark, hereqnesled everyone to lake a view
of the men of business and property, advanced to
or beyond middle age, and see if a great propor-
tion of them are not of that descriptiun. This
measure once adopted, would throw the buMnesi
almost entirely into the hands of moneyed men,
who could pay down. Credit, it is true, is of no
use — nay, it is an injory, to a speodihril^ because
he would abuse it, so tie would money or other
properly ; but lo a prudent or wise man, credii is
of vast importance. He could not, he raid, see
the forcft of the objection agai:ist this article, be-
cause it thwarts a resolution that had been laid on
the table by an individual member. No rote of
the House sanctioning that resolution was ever
passed, and how it could be considered as the act
or the opinion of the House, he could not see. He
did nol doabt the gentleman who brought it for-
ward was actuated by the purest motives, bat il
never even had the consideration of the House,
>t, therefore, be considered as containing
the final opinion of the House, or any member
He intended to have made some remarks in re-
ply to the buri>ears which have been raised up
relative to old d^Ms, bat the gentleoiMt from Mat-
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HISTOBT OF CONGBfiSS.
lOM
APHl^ t798.j
ExecHlioK tf Brituh TVMiiy.
[H.o>IL
MohnettB hmd Mrntlir unnrMed Uut abo, that be
ihouM wid very Utile. No debt of thil deMsrip-
tJOD. of uty coiiMqueiKe, could be found North
of ite Potomac ; the court* of law hare slwajn
bMO opeD, and he could not entertain m disagree'
able an opinion uf the people further South a> to
Mppoae that in 1775 tney had autieipaled more
tbaa one, or, at iniiiit, two fear* crop* ; if not,, de-
duct the four clanea meatioDed by Mr. Javraa-
BON, and part of tbfe oilier dau also, wbicii will
not coma tmder thi* Treaty, rii: auch a« hare
been loat by the negli^nec of the creditors, and
not b^any legal impedin]ents,aod file mm cannot
be large; but if the kum is large, to much the
greater the evil, and to moch the greater tba ne-
ccMitf of getting rid ct ii ; for it will be like an
Aebaa in our camp, and will coniinaaliy disturb,
if not endanger our peace and tranquility. If we
really meao to live logethur in barmony, let us
aettla this oM icore, and no longer bare it as a
lobject of recrimination between the different
pana of the Union— that part of the Union we
•hould euppoae to have the greatect eaase of dia-
Wiafaction makes no compldnt.
If tbiv Treaty in rejected, what b to become of
the Western poets? We cannot eipect them to
be delivered up; the period appointed for that
purpose is just at hand->« period to which the
people of the United Siaien have looked forward
with roncfa solicitude. It had been repreoented,
ever since be had been Id Congren, by the gen-
tlemen who DOW oppose the Treaty, and seem to
feel sncb a strange apathy oa the subject, as a
moat important oE^ect; that to obtain ibe Went-
em posts almost any sacrifice oaght to be made ;
that ivithoat them we eould not expect perma-
nent peace with the Indians, or security to our
frontier inhabitants, orihe benefits of the fndtan
trade. And now that they are almost within our
grasp, if we let them go, will not the people of
the Uni- ' "- -
rnited States cull ns t
a rery severe a
Bniempialed bv many, we ought to look to wfa
lay be its prtnablc consequences. He did n
himsrir believe that a rejection of the Treaty
would bring on an immediate deelaiatian of war,
but hv did tielieve it wosld lend to meamirea which
intist inevitaUy endin war. What be was about
to bay, were not mere words of a heated imagiaa-
tioD } they were words of truth and soberness, and
wbai, in bis cooseience, he believed would take
piaee. It is a fact well known that the spolia-
tions, rspreially at the Bastward, hav« fallen prin-
cipally upon underwriters and some of our most
mpeetKole merehanis, who, by a long course of
honest industry, had acquired a handsome jiroper-
ly. Many of these have claims for spoliation and,
property now at risk, to the amountof their whole
.-....«>- fha only chauce they hr '
_, — , — , this Treaty.
What willow thesilaationof these people, if ibey
ire dii«pPointed in this their only hope, and they
■rebrougnt torealize the idea of seeing their fami-
lea reduced tn be^ary,aiid povetty staring them
in the face t Will they not be driven to a state of
deB)wratloa1 A situation tike this would make
a wise man mad. Can it reasonably be expected,
that persoDs in this situation will sit down qnietlr
under their losses, or that their fellow-citizens will
quietly see them sacrificed, not to an important
principle, but to a mere question of expedieneyl
for the Kenilemen admit, the vote of the House
recognises the Treaty as far as it has proceeded
to be Constitutional, and that il may coustitalion-
ally be carried into eflect. He was confident, he
laid, it v/ould not be the case, and that no event
which had ever taken place in America, would
cause a more lively sensibility, oi involve more
serious consequences than a rejection of this Trea-
ty. As to BompeBsating the spoliations out of the
Treasury, the sufierets, after what has passed, can
entertain little hope of that, and when they find
themselves abandoned by the Government, is there
not danger of (heir resorting to first principles, of
seH'-preseTVation and retabation? He was snr-
prised that gentlemen should not be of that opin~
lOD, who had heretofore, on that floor, paitated in
such strong language the tmpos»ibi lily of restrain-
ing the frontier inhabitants, who may have been
robbed of a horse or other properly, from fmrsu-
ing and obtaining satisfaeiion. even at the risk of
the peace of the Union, and that, loo, before tbey
had been refused ot had even applied to the con-
stituted authorities for redress. It has been itn*-
gined by sonle, that the moderatidn and terapea
with which the sufferers have home their losses,
proceeded from their aiuehmect to some foreign
nations; but this is a very erroneous, unfounded
opinion. This moderation has proceeded entirely
from a love to their own country, a regard to its
peace and happiness, and a full confidence in, and
reliance upon the constituted Authorities, that they
would pursue reasonable and proper measures far
obtaining redress, and for more than two years
have been looking up to the completion of thic
Treaty, as the only source from mhich they could
expect indemnification. This spiMiars from their
petitions on the table, forwarded in a most deli-
Derate manner, at the commencement of the ses-
sion. He wished gentlemen would seriously re-
flect, what would oe the situation of people de-
spoiled of their property by foreign nations, and
abandoned by their own Government. He had
no doubt on his mind, but that they wonld seek
redress from those from whom they had suffered,
and on whom will this' retaiiaCion fall T Not on
one nation only. We have suflered more or leaa
from all the belligerent Powersjmt principally
from two nations— England and France. British
erufseis have made a most wanton and unpro-
voked attack upon our commerce. It must be ad-
mitted, also, that our ciiiieus have suffered great
losses by the French. Many sufferers can produce
a list of both British and French apotiatioDs. (n
support of what he had here asserted, he should
refer to Mr. Randolph's a6Gcial report, made when
Secretary of State, on the 3d of March, 17M. in
which he has given a mcnt distressing and dark
catalogue of the British spoliations and injorica,
but he says, also, relative to the Freoeh :
.dbyGoogle
HISTOBT OF COI4C»UBSa
H.orR.]
SaaKHftoM of Brituk Trtabf.
[Araii^ 179&.
That, b
"Tim Ibcir pRTCtMn hw«Moil ou bad* do \»m
dun OuMB of tbs Brituli ; dut two of tfaiir ■)!»■ of
,wu had commitlad enonniliai on vti t— eli. That
tbiir Cooiti of AdBint^ in r>>'t7 ■>' 1^ ^VPT*"
*" ' ' " • tbate p«iDtoof aociuBtkn,mudi
B French and Brituh, the foniMr
fcar* infiinfw] Iha Tmb^ batwMn Iha United Sutee
•nd dion, I17 ■■*bJ*i''|)>S I" ■•inm ' > - -- -
QUI ibmbIi tnding with theii cnttou
which Ihelr Tieelj declare* not lo be contraband, and
under dicotnatanees not forbidden b; the Law of Na-
tiomi; that a teij detrimental embugo had been laid
upon large numben of American veaaeU in tha French
parte. And that a contract with the French Govern-
ment tat coin, had been diachaigvd in depredated ai-
Thii, Mr. H. raid, was an occasion of such
magnitude, thai he fell himself obliged 10 speak
out his aeutinienia with cKndoi and fiimoess, in
relation to all iiatioas,aB some geatlemea had ud-
deitaken to draw a compaiison between diflereni
nalians. We are Americans, and a ueutial nation,
and ought, therefore, to take American and neu-
tral ground. Tbez^aod he called it a laudable
zeal, which the American people feel for the caiue
of liberty, had induced ibem to view with a par-
lial eye toe injuties we had received from France,
cons iderine her as having commenced her revo-
lution in tae came of liberty, and to exaggerate
ihoae we had received from Britain. Some io-
•tances had fallen niihin his knowledge, in which
the loudest clamor bad been made about spqlia-
tiona, where the captures were perfectly justifia-
ble, and in perfect cooformiiy to the' Law of,Na-
tions. He ooped, he said, he should not be oon-
■ideied as unfriendly to France; it was far other-
wiie ; he was her sincere friend, and wished well
tothatnation-andsincerely hoped that they would
finally t«ttle^owninafreeandhappyGioieriimeni.
But what would be the end of their present con-
flict wa* beyond the power of hnman calcolalion
to say. He did, however, he said, lore his own
country best, and as onr liberty, prance, and hap-
pinew, was moored in a safe haven, he was not
willing to embark them on board a ship still at
aea, and 00 msttal could tell what storms or tem-
Ctsjuigbt await bet. He ba4 no idea of em-
king the Qoveinmenl and liberties of the peo-
ple of ine United States with thoae of Prance or
any otbei nation. He .wished them a safepas-
aage, but he did not think it for the interest 01 the
United States to become underwriters. He did
not think there was any obligation of gnititude
on the United States that required it ; be did not
think the French Republic had any claim of
gratitude on (he United States for the aid which
was afforded in our Revolution, the netion, as
■ueh, had no hand or volition in that business ;
the C<HiTeDlion, and much to their honor be it
spoken, have very candidly acknowledged it, and
OisaTowed all claims on that sround. Our assist-
ance wao, in that case, derived tVom another quar-
ter. Those who afforded it are now no more.
And it was afforded, not out of friendship to ut,
or a regard to the cause of liberty, or to advance
onr prosperiiy, but to gMiify national pride and
antipathy, and to humUe and distreas a praud mud
haughty neighbor, with whom, for many centu-
ries past, they bare for a cmisifleiable part of the
time been at war ; they were, tberefem, imder at
ffreat obligations of graUtnde to ns, as we to them ;
for they never earned on a war more to their ad-
vantage with Cheat Britain, or made a more boB-
otaUe peace, than that of 1783. Boppoae that.
iiisMad of sending Uoopt to onr aid, Fraace had
hired them to Great Britain, as some Earopeaa
priDcetinfactdid, toeoaieoreitoentoartbn>at%
would the Repoblic be willing, would she think
it jnit, that she should be oharged with the odium?
If she makes the claim in one case, the must sub-
mit to, the charge in the other. Whne muraal
engagemfMt had beeo honevtly disehuiged 00
both sides, he bad never supposed there wks any
obligation of gratitude left.
He was ^eatly mortified to bear a gMttlemaa
from Virginia [Mr. Gilbb] declare in that House,
thai Franee bid given us o«r indepeadence ; that
we were indebted to her for oar bei^ admitted
to delibeiate-as the Repreaentatives of • free peo-
ple. He should uke the liberty 10 deny the a*-
sertim ; we «bould have been do leaa free and in-
dependent ifno nation affiiidedtiBtheirpatTODage.
Fiaaoe never opentr declaicd in onr bvor till
after the capture of Burgoyne, and we bad miDi-
fetted to all the world that we should maintati
our indepeadMtee. He did not believe, be nid,
that the independence and freedom of America
depended on the good or ill will of any nation on
earth ; he believed it depended solely m the will
of the people of the United Slate*. The same
geoUeinan had said this Treaty would give um-
biage to France. He a>ked,'why1 IsUereany
stipulation in it contrary to the Treaty wiili
France? It ii not pretended. If there was, it
could iMt be opeiatire ; but, out of an abundant
caution, there is an exprera Gtipulation that it
shall have no such operation. Bat, says the gen-
tleman, it gives Great Britain the advantage in
our ports, which she did not before enjoy. Ate
we, then, reduced to that hnmUe sitnatuo that
we may not grant indulgence to a fwe^ nalioo,
for tbe purpose of obtaiBiog advantage to our-
selves, beeanae snob nattcn is atwar with France,
without asking the Gttnaent of Francel Thit
would be ooloninag of us in good earnest. Why
so scrupuloni on this headT Has Fiance bees
so in regard to our Treaty with them? Mr. Ran-
dolph states, that they have made very free with
it indeed. Have they consulted us relative to the
Treaties they have made with several of the Kings
of Europe? Could they expect that we ■hould
consult them? Where does the gentleman get
his information, that France will take umbrajret
Have they remonstrated ? He bad heard of na
such thing. He had heard, indeed, that some
Americaos in France, lighted, no doubt, with the
flame which bad been kindled in ibis eoaotry , bad
attempted to stir up some uneasiness in that^ bai
the Frencbmen were perfectly easy and uncon-
cerned on that head. They are (00 magnani-
mous a nation to take offeiMe at onr securing ad-
vauiBges to euiaelves, by granting to other nr
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BISTORT OF CONGRiSS.
Ahil, 1796.]
■Sxeeutlm tf BritUh TVeo^.
[H.orR.
tioaa Dotltinrbat what trcwrre free b^ oar Trea-
ties and the Liawof Natioas to grant ; neither is
such conduct improper, anlem we mean to be-
come parlie* in toe war, which the sober, thtnk-
iag part of that nation do nol wish. And to us,
it would be ineTitabte ruin. He wbs, be raid, for
B bithfu] obse'rTance of owr Treaty with France,
and for afTordiog them all the aid we eou)d. con-
sistently with a fair and impartial obserT&nce of
□or neutrality ; and, in that way, we should do
them more good than by becoming parties in thi
war snd oarKlres no injury.
Mr, H1LLH008B requested gentlemen to pause
a moment, and reflect what will be our aitaaiion
if this Treaty is rejected. The peace ol 178S is
ae reed on both sides to hare been intVacied, 1 '
that Oreat Britain has committed depredatioi
our commerce to an immense amount. Is it sup-'
posed that all this matter can go off without any
noise or combtistioa 1 As to treating again, nc
one can suppose that we could do it to any ad-
vanias'e, aiier such rejection. What may Qreai
Britain expect, if we will Dot setlle oar differ-
ences by negotialion 7 Will she not expect that
we shaft resort to more violent measures — luch
as repfiial. sequestration, or stopping of inter-
coarse 1 And to guard herself agamst such mea-
snres, may we not expect she will lay her hand
upon all our property on iheoeean? He said he
looked upon sucn events as the natural cc ~
quences of our rejecting the Treaty. What
we expect will be the conduct 01 our own
sens f Will they tamely submit to be robbed of
their property, wDea they lose alt hope of aid
protection from the Goremmenti They will ni
they frill defend it eren to the stieddingvf blood;
and not only eo. but they will also take every op-
portanily they nare to make reprisal for the pto-
perty they hare already lost npon those who did
them the injury, whether they belong to one na-
tion or another. What, be asked, could be the
end of all these things but war?
It is an easy matter, he said, to start objectioas
to any Tieaty. The rery natare of Treaties is
such, tnat we must exnecc sttpnlation ob hath
sides ; and if tme side only is viewed many objec-
tions will appear. There is not one Treaty in
ourcodewhichmay not be objected to in this way,
that lately negotiated with Spain nol excepted.
He gare. he said, that Treaty his most cordial
approbation, because it secured to our Western
brethren the free narigation of the Mississippi,
gare them a ma^et for (heir produce, and would
Seatly raise the value of their lands. But the
ih article of that Treaty is vastly objectionable,
for we are bound, at 'all events, to restrain our
Indians from making war on the S^niards. We
know, from said experience, how dAoult it is to
restrain our frontier people, living within the
reach, and under the control, of our laws, from
which i«adily kindle up an Indian war. Is it ,
then, a serious business to take upon ourselves
the risk of an Indiau war, from the iadiscretion
of the Spaniards, vrbo are not under our authori-
ty or eotttrol, or withia the, reach of our lawsll
Such an alliance, provided we had no wifficieBt
force to cope with the Indian tribes, might be im-
portant ; but the evils of ladiRo wars do not arise
Bomneh from tfaefonse the Indian* are able to bring
against us, or our inability to resist it, as from the
distress they bring upon our frontier inhabitant^
and the expense thereby occasioned, neither 01
which evils will be much, if any, lessened by this
article in the Treaty, whereas the chance of In-
dian wars will be nearly doubled. That part of
the 16th article of the Spanish Treaty which au-
thorizes the cargoes of trading vessels to be lakan
out Ktsea, by a sfaip-of-war or squadron which may
be in want froma5tOTm,orother accident, giving
a receipt only, which is afterwards to entitle the
party to payment, is more objeolionable than any
article in the British Treaty. In this way, a ves-
sel may be dittappoinled of her return eirgo, hav-
ing nothing to purchase with, and be obliged to
seek payment in the Spanish Oonrt. This isanb-
jeciing trade to an embarrassment to which it b
not liable by the Law of Nations, anditisaur-
prisins thai this article in the Spanish Treaty
should have passed unnoticed, and so much slrMB
should have been laid on the jn-orision article in
the British Treaty, which lessens and restrains the
embarrassment to which bwle, by the Law of
Nations, would be liable. By the Spanbh Trea-
ty, we, are not admitted to any trade with their
inlands or colonies, not even where they border
upon Us. Many other articles of that Treaty are
liable to the same objections that have bem made
to the British Treaty ; but he ^ould take up nd
further lime in remarking upon them, but as the
cenllemen from one part of toe Union -had cheer-
fully given op their objections to the Spanish
Treaty, because it accommodates their Westem
brethren, he hoped, and had almost said, depend-
ed upon it, that they would give up their objeo-
tions (which they admitted to be grounded mere-
ly on expedients) to the British Treaty, which,
to another part of the Union is of immense and
incalcalable importance. He hoped that, on this
occasion, it would be remembered that, we were
Amerioans; he hoped all would harmonize, and
uoiie as a band of brothers. This, said Mr. H.,
and this only, was wanting to liiahc America
the paradise ollhe world; this would carry
our present unexampled prospnity to a pitcn
of glory and happiness hitherto unknown on this
globe.
At- this point the Committee rose, and had
leave to sit again.
The House then resolved itselt into a Commit-
tee of the Whole, Srst, on the bill for carryins
, log
into effect the Treaty with Spain, and afierwaTds
on that for carrying into effect the Treaty with
Ibes Northwest of the river Ohio,
which, having ^one through, the House took them
into coDsiderauon, and ordered them to be en-
grossed and read a third time io<inorrow.
Wedkebd&v, April 20.
The bills for makinc appropriaiims for defray-
ing the expeuses which may arise in carrying into
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF C0MGR£fl8.
H.ofR-J
BMcutim of Biitith Trmttf.
[Afkil, 179&
cOecE the Treaties lat«l? concluded betmen thi
United States and the King or Spain, and with
eeriaio Indian tribe* Northwest of ibe river Ohio,
were read a third time nnd pasKd. The first
blank in the fornier. for delhtjrioK the expenses
■coording to an esiimate, wat filled up with
tl8.083, and the allowEuice for Cominissi oners
with 92,000. The cost of the transportation and
Cymeai of the stipulations to the Indians, in the
let bill, was SUed up with <1,500.
Mr. Hehdgbboh moved that the resolution
which be yeaierdajr laid upon the table, respect'
tag the disponl of lands resetTed for the use of
OorernmeDt, be taken up. It wtis taken up ac-
eordJDglf, and referred to a committee of three
members.
A meraage from the Senate informed the House
that Ihe Sdnate have pawed the bill, entitled "An
•cE for the relief and protection of American sea-
■nsD," with several amendments, to which the;
desire the concurrence of ibis House.
Mr. HttuBoDen, from the eommittee appointed,
, presented, according to order, a bill making bji
■ppropriaiioD for defraying the expenses which
may arise in carryioK into effect the Treaty made
between the United Blates and the Dey and Re-
gency of Algien; which was read twice and
committed.
TUBATT WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on the state of the Union, and
(he resolution for carrying the British Treaty into
effect, being under consideratioD,
Mr. HiLLsooBB finished his obserrations in fa-
vor of the resolution, as given in full in preceding
pages; when
Mr. Cooper said, he rose with reluctance to
■peak on a subject that had already occupied so
tnuchorche time of the House, and he thougQi had
been so ably managed in all piiii)ts ; yei. situated
as he WOE, and reprf senting, as he did, liiBl coun-
try bordering on Canada, from Presqu' Isle, on
Lake Erie, lo Lake St. Francis, a distance of more
than three hundred miles; and the very advan-
tageous point of view in which the trade of that
country is held, itot only by his constituents, but
by the inhabitants of Albany and Schenectady,
and several other trmding towns ou the Hudson
river, seemed to put him in such a situation that
it would be criminal in him to be dlent on a sob-
ject BO interesting m the people of the State of
New York. Nor is it necessary to say much to
show the expediency of granting such sup-
plies as are proper to aet in motion the Britiah
Treaty, as far it relates to the interest of the Stale
of New York, and to that alone he should confine
bin observatimis.
it has been slated (o me, said Mr. C, by our
worthy negotiator of the Indian Treaty, that n
more easy and advantageous Treaty was obtained
with the Indian tribes, on account of the time be-
ing ascertained with certainly in the British Tre:^-
Iv for the delivery of the Western ports lo the
American notion; and it is reasonable to calcu-
late, that that citcumatance had a powerful inSo'
ence over their aciioas; for, if they were uncoT-
ered by those posts, being placed in the possesuon
of the people with whom they were at war, and
that they could be no longer t>heliered on the mar-
gin of our country by their old friends, the Bri-
tiiih} it became their hesi policy to throw thent-
selves into the arms of tbe United States, and
theydidso. But what is to follow? Why,Mfthis
House, by a cool, deliberate act, refuses or ne-
glects to lake possesiion of those invaluable stands
at the time ascertained in theTreaty,itagainforms
a plaunible pretence for that strong ana haughty
naiion to withhold from us that trade, which is not
oolyour right, but which aainre,in the distribution
of her waters, hath secured to the commerce of the
Slate of New York. And can or will any of its
Representatives exclude its citizens trom the en-
joyment of this naiurol advantage 1 They must
not do this thing- For, should the British be left
in posaestion olthose posts, is it not fair to expect
that they will influence the Indians to become
agda troublesome on our frontiers? That they
have ihis influ^ocp,,irieft in possession of those
posts, will not be denied ; that they are not too
good Id do this thing, will be believed ; that they '
are bold enough to alleniDt it,is well known; and
they will have this solid argument to show is
' '' ' step ought to be taken by them,
diaa tribes, and that tbe fauli is our own ; and iho^
instead of the great advantages resulting from the
Wvelern trade, so long and so eagerly sought af-
ter by the citizens ot our Slate, they will have
presented to their view » prospect of wax on our
frontiers, and the present unexampled prosperity
of the We»lern diiitrict frustrated. 1 am not nn-
raindful. Mr. Chairman, said Mr. C, that the
naming of a district has a local sound in the coun-
cil of the nation ; yet, when this Honse eonsid<'rs
thai the district I mention is more than half the
State of New York, and that it is the very coim-
y that most gain by a restoration of tbe post^
r be deairoyed by an Indian war, supported by
Canada, they will see I have solid cause to M
anxious about tbe result of this measure. It now
becomes necessary thai ] should take up that part
of the argument, as slated by a seAlleman from
Virginio, [Mr. MadibonJ which relates to the
State of New York. Heintimated that the trade
on those lakes would not he any advantage to a>
American loercbants, because goods were iin-
poiicd through Canada duty free, and with us
there was from seven to Ofieen per cenL duty.
This staUment is not correct. There are duties
and excises in Canada, which, together wiltt tbe
high insurance on vessels sailing up the river St-
Lawrence, make it equal to ours. But thia and
ail drawbacks on our part, we will put out of the
que&tion; for, 1 am told, and I think it is a certain
iact, that each hundred woight of goods which ar-
rives at Niagara, by way of Quebec, costs five
pounds for the carriage onlf ; by tbe way of Ihe
Mohawk, tweoly-faur shillmgs is a- fair price-
Thia difference, alone, is a handsome profit, and a
consideration that will always secure that trade
.dbyGoogle
1097
fflSTOHT OF CONGRESS.
ExtaHitm c^ Britith Tieaty.
[H.0
U> our mercbanb. For ibeir Btituth tnilere will
get (iieir auppties from ihal market, wbich is ihe
cheapeM and safest. This in as certaia as that
meit will fullow that which is moei fur thrit in'
When New York aod CaOBda were both nnder
the Britiib GoverDDient, the country of Upper
Canada wait supplietl by way uf the Hudwa-—
the King's stores were all sent by that route, anil
wmsi there no nolid caase for this arianBemeat ?
To ere, certainly was, and ([endemeD whu contro-
vert thi( doctrine muai pToduce better evidence
than the fact itself. So jealous are the British
of our advantage in the trade of t^at cogntry, that
they keep a garriKon at the outlcl of the Oswego
river, to preveai our traders passing with iner-
ciundige on to those waters. But, il the gentle-
ma a 's own doctrine is sound, that no advantage
can arise to na froro tbe trade of that country,
why does he complain of want of reciprocity m
ihe Treaty, by nut having damages for detaining
the postsl Surely, if the trade is of no advan-
ta^ to us, the poBta are of no use, and no dama-
ges are due, but I deny both the oiie and the
other. The comnierce of that country will fall
e damage we have s^staiued by the
of 1783, they woulJ, and here the dispute is at an
How this is, nid Mr. C, 1 shall not onderlake
to itay ; but this I am very clear in, that we had
better treat with them than fi^ht tbeot. We
have thought tbis the most prudent moiie of con-
duct with the Aleerioes and other nations, and
we ought lu think so for several year* to come,
with all nulioni; for time to us is every thing.
That gentleman's plan is to destroy this Treaty,
and go into new negotiation; my plan is to se-
cure ibis, and if necessary, negotiate farther.
Should, this Treaty be dcstroved, what prospect
have we of obtaining another f None; and what
will follow 7 Wby oar commerce will be cut
up, ofcounie our revenue destroyed, our farmers
impoverished, and on them we must cause to be
enessed direct tases lo create supplies, or the
Government must fall to pieces, and who is it
that will ilreloh forth his arm to do this tbiaK^
Or who is it that will vouch that a non-eompli
«ace with the British Treaty will not produce a)
those evils?
Mr. PioE said, that he bad heard no arpiments
in favor of (he rcioluiion before the Committee,
but sue!] as might bs used to influence a vote at
any other time, and upon almost ' any occasion
for we are told that war, or popular discon
and great inconvenience and distress to ,
chants, naderwriiera, and others, will be the
neijuenee of its rejection. If such threats ca
fluence tbis House upon the present occasion, an
unhappy and mortiTying eom'parisoa may be
made between tbe Congress of 1776. and tlut uf
the present day.- They despised and pncouniered
(h? dangers of war actually commeuced. Jlr
wished, when members were disposed to mention
their feam of such dangers, they would first eleai
41 II Com.— 3S
the galleries; for such communications ought to
be lecreti Uid members really believe that Great
Brilaiu will declare war igaiost ibe Uuited Stales,
if tbis House should refuse to be accesnary to tbe
"Hlaiion of the Conniituiion, tbe destruction of
lir own rights, of the rights of neutral nations,
and of tbe interests of.tbeir constituents? If they
do believe this, is ibeir belief founded on con-
alone, or on the negotiator's declaration,
that ibe British Ministers threatened him with
war, declaring that war should be the conse-
quence of a rejection of the Treaty 1 It the lat-
ter be the case, and nothing less can justify sueh
repeated assertion that war will be the conse-
quence of a refusal to carry the Treaty into effect,
the Treaty ought to be deemed null and void on
account of that threat ; and if the former, they
may be assured that they are mistaken, and that
"'iiain is not «o frantic as to engage in a war
ith the United Stales, upon such slight grounds-
Toe citizens of tbs United Stales wish not to be
at war with the British nation ; nor can Ihe peo-
ple of Britain desire a war with them. Both
must wish for neace, and a (iitl commercial inter-
course upon lineral terms; and es the Gxecotire
authoriiy of both countries are well disponed lo
each other, and have, as far as in their power,
carried the Treaty into execution, what r^son
can be Biislgned wby we should be involved in a
warl It hai been said that the United States
will be obliged to declare war, on account of the
Briiish refusal (which may be expected) to de-
liver uj> the posis, end to make compensation ict
spoliations ol oar commerce; bat Iseenonece^
siiy for such conduct. For my lurt, should Bri-
laiu never give up the posts, I would not vote for
war. nor be at the expense of a'single regiment
to take them ; nor would I go to war to recover
losses sustained by spolialigns. For, if we reject
the resolution betore you, sir, we may be at lib-
.riy to pass such a bill as we passed in the year
1794. by a majority of twenty-four members, and
for wbic'i thirteen Senators then voted ; and
should the Senate concur with us in passing it,
we might use it more effectually than a declara-
tion ofwar (or the recovery of the posts, and re-
paration of wrougs. As to w%r, a* my colleague
yesterday said, I have reason to deprecate it, for
the sake of my constituents, and for my owa
sake ; for I have experienced enough of its evils v
but I cannot think that I ought to saciifice tbeir
dearest interests merely from an apprehension of
the dangers of war. The arguments, thereroie,
which I have heard, cannot induce me to vote for
the resolution before you. Indeed, sir, I must
vote against it ; because I think that tbe Treaty
is unconHiiiuiional and pernicious; and even if it
were Const! luiional in every respect, and a.t ad-
vantageous to the United States as it has been
represented, I should think it impoli'io and din-
honorable in tbis House to lend its aid to carry it
intu effect during the present war, and a iiontiou-
ance of the B.'iiish depredations on our com-
merce, and impressment uf our seamen. Tbe
;dbvG00gle
1099
BISTORT OF CaSQKBm.
H. or R.]
HxteuHon of BriiUk Treaty.
[Apbil, 17«l
It was ioTeited hf the C>onsttiu(ioD, and to invest
them with which, the GonnilDlioD ilseirwas n-
pTvssly formed ; a power which I think should be
held as precioua and nQalienable. I niFair tha
power of rr If u It line (he commerce of the United
States with Orrat Britain ; no as to induce her to
Tolfl! all the coaditiona of the Treat]' of Pence,
c Dd to pat the trade of the United States with
her upon a footing of Tcciprocitf. It apoears
also unconatilutional, beeanse it violatea a aolcmn
act of CoDgresis paised in eonformitf to the ex-
press words, and I may sar, in obedience to the
injanction of the spirit or the Consiitntion : I
mean the act for eslablishinff an uniform rule of
naturalization, and this rioTatiOD, too, operates
ir unconstrtutional, becautie it ii
feres with the antfaoritr of the Judiciary, by es-
tablishing; a Court of Comminioners, a kind of
supreme court of appeals, within the *UDited
State*, with powers to proceed', unknown to our
laws; with temptations to defendants to make no
defence^ with a rbht to bind the United §tatnto
pay d*bt8 which thoy owe not, and to any. erlent
or amount which that Court may think nc to de-
tree ; and it is uu constitutional, becairse it aulho-
ri«es the Pbb«ii>bbt to create certain offices, and
aoiiex salaries thereto. In Ihese
tntional iMiine by the
OEHT todoawajr the power of Congress or to
Wish a court of appeab superior to the Federal
Supreme Court; thrl, whatever would be uncon-
siituttonal, if done by Confms, cannot be Consti-
■ • ■ ' ! PBEf . - . . .
lehad
m right to deprive Consress of the power it clai ,
■nd to iDterTere with the Judiciary, yet the exer-
cise of that Tight in the present case, ourht to be
▼iewed as so pernicious to the United States hb
to render the TivatT nnll and void ; or at least, it
ought to be viewed as an argnroent of sufficient
wetcht to induce this House to refuse their aid to-
wa^s carrying this Treaty into operation. And
were it even Conalilutional and advantageous to
tdc United Staiei in every article, yet, as it acqui-
esces ia a violation of the rights of neutral na-
tions in favor of Oreat Britain, and in some in-
atances, tosucha degree as to be thooghl even
by the PBGSioBitT himself, to afford just ground
for discontent on the part of our allies^ it will he
dishonorable and highly impolitic in this House to
be in any manner tDstromeDta) in carrying it into
(Sect. As it has not been in the power of the
United Slates to assist their Republican allies,
when fi^tii^ ia fact ibeir battles, the least they
can do, or the least thai the world and those al-
lies can expect from them, must be, thattbey will
not put the enemjps of those allies into a better
condition than ihey were, by making Treaties
with them during; the preneni war.
Wears told, indeed, by a member from Con-
neciicut[Mr. HiLLRonsB] that the French Reptib-
lic is not dinpleaaed wilh the Tresty, or that they
would have reraoDstroted agaiiisl it ; but in the
breath he lold us, that such a retBonstranee
would have bees indeeept. Whether the Repub-
lic has remonstrated or not, is immatertH): we
know that the French nation has been induced to
believe that the Oorernmentor the Exeentiveof
the United State* was unfriendly to their Gov-
ernment, and that the citizens at Urge were
friendly, and warmly attached to it and to their
citizens. Tbey may, therefore, if they have DM
remonstrated, be supposed to be willing to wait,
with a reliance on the Hepresentaiives of the
people bf the United Stales, believing that iliey
will never consent to carry the Treaty into efleet
nation entertains of our friendship. Lei us esia-
blish that good opinion by rejection the resoln-
tion before us, and let us hope to undeceive them
respecting our ExeeniiTe. 1 hcpe they will be-
lieve, as f have endeavored to indnce some of my
friends to believe, that, the negotiator was led to
fear that our affairs in the United States were b
a critical situation ; and that those of our allies,
thoOgh apiMtrcDily flourishing, were on the brink
of destruction : he might have been let into the
secret plots against the Republic, and have con-
cluded that the Treaty atone could preveot oar
being involved in war with Britain, after Ae suc-
cess of the combined Powers against onr Repnb-
lican allies; tb^l the Senate, when they advised
the ratiScation, might possibly be under a similar
impression, and that their advice, and cireuiD'
stances unknown, tnighl indfi&e the Pbkbideht to
think himself bound to ratify the Treaty. But,
sir, this House knows that these fears were
Soundless ; that the enemies of Fiance have
en repulsed, and totally disappointed in their
hopes of conquest, end that many of them have
made peace with them, and we may hope lliat
even Britain will soon follow their example. We
know, too, that the Treaty is not such an one as
the Pbebioekt instructed his Envoy to make ;
therefore this House ma^, and ought to refuse to
be instrumental in cnrirmg it into effect. This
House ought not to suffer the French Republic
to charge it with lending its aid to carry into ef-
fect a Treaty which so many of its constituents
dislike, and of which the PBEsin&NT himself dis-
approved. If war can be produced by rejecting
the Treaty, I should suppose it most be by adopt*
ing it ; for France haJ, according to the Laws of
Nati<»iB, a right lo deelarewar against theDniied
Staiea for violating its neutrality, and for its par-
tiality to Great Britain. But, ! hope tbisHoase
will be, as the member from CoDBeeticul [M.i.
Hillboitbe] said, uninfluenced by fears of war
From any quarter; and consider only what the
interest and honor of the United States reqniie.
They will think with me, I trust, that it ia oui
interest to secure the good will and friendship of
twenty-five millions of Republican allies ; to
avoid the contempt of neutral nations, and to en-
deavor amicably, by a new negotiation, to adjust
" ""- ilh Or— ■'-■-^■- — ^
lU differences
1 Great Britain, and not lo
patch them up, so as to engender fresh disputes,
and a breach of the Treaty, with which no one
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llOiL
msmom oFcoNosEas.
likOS
AMI^17HL]
EmCKttM t^Mrkiih Trmtg.
[H. arJL
bM eret baeo perfecUv mUfied. I was lony to
heu a member friMi New Yo[b([Mr. Coopeb]
wbilst he was urvioi; Ibe necessity of ifttirytos
and (uloplini; the Treaty (ay, io fact, that we haa
belter put up wilb insults aow, asd ba revenged
hereafter; that withia twenty yeais we migbl
defy Britain and dictale terms to her. No, ur,
let us deal boneslly aud caudidly ; let us stale
our objections to the Treaty, aad I will veature
to s%y, that tbere is sot aa houcst, candid man in
Gre«i Britain who will aai applaud us for it.
The Prbsidgui will be able to give a full and
satisfactory reason why the Treaty canuot be
carried into effect, aud either another which will
afford mutual satisfaction will ba made; or, we
•hail without a Treatjr b« left at liberty to mtke
use of those powers with wbich the Cuustiiuiioo
inresle^ jis, tor the very purpose of bringing Great
Britain to reaMoable terras, as to comitieroial in-
tercouose, and'OS Io a fulfilment of the Treaty of
Peace.
We are.lold, indeed, that the Treatjr before us
e'.ve* up the poslsj but, tir,I may say il gives the
oited Stales the mere wails or works nnd forti-
fications, and retains the lands around them lo an
undefined esteotj besides yielding to Br ilisb sub-
jects perhaps miJliosB of acres which they may
claim under old arants. 1 look upon this circum-
stance, sir, more like a capitulation on the part of
our negotiator, than a fulfilrnent of ihe article in
Ihe Treaty of Peace; aud that this circumstance,
added to others in the present Treaty, would have
rendered a cit)iituiation upon such terms •Jinhon-
orable. unless an assault and desuuciiou could be
Ctovea inevitable. In short, sir, said Mr. P.. un-
Bs it can be prored safe and honorable, uni not
.a violation of our neutrality, for this House to be
accessary to carrying ihe Treaty into effect, I
cannot rote for tne resolution before you, even
should it be proved that ibe Treaty is ConHtitu-
tional, and it affords the advaniage* wilb wbich
some gentleman suppose it abounds. I shall,
therefore, vote ^gaiaiit the resolution now before
you ; and, as far as I can see at pescnt, shall view
,the one proposed by the member from Pennayl-
vania, [Mr. Maci.av] as a substitute for ibis, as far
preferable to it, although that does not go as far
as I could wish; but ibat wonld be safe and boa-
orable, as ii puts off the question till we may be
better informed of the reasons which led to the
tatificatioa of the Trqaty by the Pkesiobnt, and
till possibly the conduct of Oreat Britain may be
such as to render our approbatioa and support of
the Treaty not inconsistent with the honor of the
United States. For my part, sir, I shall vole
against the resolution belore you at all events, for
the reasons which I iiavegiven, and because I do
think it high lime to lei Greai Britain know that
she ought to comply wiih the Treaty of Ppiic
befiire we wiU consent to any new Treaty with
ber ; and that she mutt suffer us to eojoy the
riKbts of neutral nations, and not attempt to force
ut into a violation of ibem with respect to our
allies; and ibis sentiment 1 am sure will .be ap-
plauded bv the world, and by every candid man
(o Great Uritaic.
Hr. Bouuu thought it ^rauM be an.ctay «a»t-
ter to QOQvioce Ibe gentleman last up that bis
eipal objections against the Treaty then be-
them were aufoundtd. He believea the gw-
tleman was actuated by the best motives, but,'if
be were to reriew his objection^ he was of
opinion they would appear lohim ill-fomded.
Ttie gentleman ot^ted to the Treaty as un-
instiiuiional, because it interfered with the ju-
dicial authority of Ihe United States. The ap-
Eintment of Commissioners to settle differences
twixt the citizens of ibe two (
what hehad'alludedto. But had ni
assented (o carry into effect tba SpanitA Treaty,
which provided br the appaiaUnent of Commis-
sioners of a similar kind 7 Certainly he mlitt
lecoUect that there was a provision for such an
appointment of Commissioneri, with the like an-
thorily and powers; and.turely Ihe word "Bri-
tish" could not alter lite nature of the thing ao
luch as to render what was perfeetir agreeable
I a Spanish T»aty, and upon whicb the yeaa
had been unanimously given, when applied 4o the
British Treaty alto^ther ot^ecliannble ; or had
the goiileman received some new light aiace he
gave his vote?
But be did not wish to rest the matter there..
He would inquire for what ihose Commissioners
were appointed? Was it 10 decide disputes be-
tween mdividuali? No; il was to seLUe claima
and differences betwixt the two nation^ Did this
encroach upon the Judicial authority of this coun-
try i Ceituinly not. For the Judicial autboritf'
is incompetent to take cognizance of controversies
between independent nations. The gentleman
bad stated the Treaty to be unconstitutional upon
another around, viz : that it interfered with the
in of Congress with respect to naturalization.
us examine, said be, what this interference is.
The people who live in these posts are lo be suf-
fered 10 remain there, and in one year lo declare
whether they will become citizens of the United
State* nr remain British subjects. If they became
citizens it was well, and he believed the Treaty-
making power to be fuUy competent to make
them so; but if not, the CoDgress might accom-
plish il by carrying the Treuy into effect ; iC not,
they remained as other fbreigBera, owiu^a tem-
porary allegiance to the Government of this
country.
Another object had been stated, which, he
thought, had been fully answered by the ^ntle-
man from Coanectiicut, [Mr. HillboobbJ viz:
ibat Ibe Treaty before them was calculated to
excite a hostile disposition on the part of France
towards this country. He bimselTsawnoground
for this disposition. Had this country viojated the
Treaty with France? Ho; and certainly when
they were treating with one nation, they were not
particularly obliged to concult the intensts of an-
other. But the gentleman must know that the
Treaty was parUeubrly delicate on thLi snbject,
and contained an express exception in favor of
existing Treaties between the United Stales and
other nations. .
These were the matetial objections which the
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
H. OP It. I
Bxecatim r^ BritUh Trealf.
f April. 17%.
KentleniBD last op ha<i addncfd sgwiriBi the Treaty,
and jfi he htd said thry were sufficient to influ-
rnet hi" vole againrt carryiDfc U into eSrct. He
^id not Fipeet (hat aAer tb> declaration the Houw
bad made ivlaitve to ibeir right of deltberatinK uo
the Pipedivney of carrytiiii Trealiei into effpct,
(hat, when this Tr«ily nhoold coiDf berorr tliem,
the? wer« to hare ^ooe iolo the same riaminatioD
of It ar ir it were in the first state of ne|fotialitiD,
and the British Minister was hefore themendeaT-
orlng to settle the commerce and adjust the difier-
FBces between the two countries. He expected a
■oh] my, that ii woold be with great reluctance
that the House of Represent alive* woulil refuse
lo rarry into effect a Trraty.«fter their Minister
bad negotiated it, two-thirds of the Senate had
approved it. and the President hail ratified and
promuleod it as thelawoTthe land. He bad said
It would he an eitmne eaue which would justify
Mch a refusal. Yet they End the BHlinh Treaty
taken up as scrupulonsiy ss ihou^b it were in the
first staarex of its cegoitaiian. He did not think
the conduct ofEPntlemen wns jusiiSsble in doing
thi" ; thry should come forward at once, and show
ibe inMnjiBent to be nocoDstiiuIional, or as neces-
inrity ncrificing the most essential interestii of
tbe con " ■•- -
He V
Coromitiee, by going into a detail relstit-e to the
TaHous articles of the Treaty. A number of ob-
Citions had been urged against the instrument,
t be tbousht they had been eofflplrtely answer-
ed. A gentleman from Virginia [Mr. Madibon]
hid expresned his surprise that any branch of the
Oorernmenl should have showji a dispimiiion lo
agree to a Treaty which did not admit their ves-
sels to fio to the WeM Indies, bh that was hrld up
as a jirinrinal object of any Treaty with Great
Britain, H? would achnowledge that a free in-
Ipreourse with the West Indies would be a very
desirable thing, and be expected that the Treaty
would have, contained an article of this kind. Ii
was well known that an article permitting a re-
ftricted inlercoarse with the West Indii^ was
agreed to, b|it it had been rejected by the Senate,
as unworthy of being accepted. But as we know
that further negotiationn on the subject are yet on
fool, we bave reason to believe that a more favor-
able article will be obtained. If we should fail of
thia, when the commercial part of the present
Treaty expires, that is, two years after the pre-
sent war, he should be of opinion thnt it would
not be prudent to renew the Treaty wiihoui nd-
initlinff the tpxspIs of the United Stales to the
Brilifb West Indies or. libera] terms. Thev had
now, indeed, admission to the West Indies, and
would have it during the prespnl war, to a greater
extent than any Treaty would be likely to give
It bad been aswrled that tbe article givinir our
merchants the privilege of tradine to tbe British
East Indies,wouldbpa(tended with no advantages
more than they before possessed; hut, as fur as
he could learn, tbe merchants were generally of a
diSereot opinion; they think it an advaDlageous
article, as it is n trade which they are every day
extending, and ID which ibey have only a preca-
rious ritrht without the Treaty. PfvioDS to the
preseniTreaty.it was in the power of tbe British
Qoveroraenl, and. he believed, of the India Coin-
pany.io deprive them of the trade whenever ibcy
pleased; but by the Treaty ihev had secured a
riffht to ii — a rinht not Branred nv Treaty to any
oiner nation, and denied evea to British subjects.
It was said thst oor raertbants were restricted
from the East India eoastiitg trade. He did not
think there was anything unreasonable in this, at
the British were restricted from the coasting trade
of this coumry. It was also said that the mer-
chants of the United States were restricted from
carrying tbe goods which they brought from the
British Ea^t Indies to any part of tbe world ex-
eejit tbe United States. The troth Is, we are re-
stricted by the Treaty to briirg thetn to America.
He did not think it was more than might have
been expected that this restriction would have
been required. Was it supposed that we wonhl
bare been permitted to become competitors with
tbe British merchants in their own market? It
could not. Tbey have already allowed to Ameri-
can citizens what they refuse to their own sab-
Sets. This was a concession on the part of tbe
riiish, for which no equivalent was made, in a
eoramercial point of view.
It was said that they had tied ibemselres from
laying any additional imposts upon goods import-
ed in British vessels. Was it in contemplaiion to
impose any higher duties upon goods imported
into (his country? Was it not further believed
that the duties were at their foil height, and thai
any promised increase would rather lower than
augment the revenue'? What ucri Gee, then, was
this, and which was to rpmain onlv for two years
after the War ? It was said that tbe British bad
a riffhc to impose countervailing duties on onr
produce and ve^'se15: she pos^ei-spd no more right
m that rcApect than before the neKOtialine'of the
Treaty : vet this was made a formioable objection.
In remarking npon the East India trade, when he
mentioned that Iheir merchants were restricted
frotn the coasting trade, the expreraion was incor-
rect; we arenotexpi^ssly restricted, but the article
merely says it is not to be construed as an allow-
ance or permission to carry cm tbe coasting trade.
We may still be indnlfPtl in it, if the CMDpRoy
wilt permit it. It had been said that tbe mer-
chants of the United States would be deprived of
the freights of the produce of the Briiish East Iri-
dies for the Canton trade ; but be believed there
were other parts of the East Indies, adjacent to
the British settlements, from which they might
fiurchase the same articles, and obtain ^rest
reiiibt. Indeed, it appeared to him that the East
India trade was an advanlageons ane, and a trade
which tHe British had never given lo any other
nation, and denied to her own subjects, unless be-
longing to the East India Company. But if some
erf" the commercial r gutatirns were not perferily
reciprocal or unrxcrplional le, their duration was
ibott,si)dil Wii* better to give tfacm ■acctiottihan
;dbvG00gle
HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
of BritiMk Treat]/.
rH.OP.K.
would it QOI be ttieirduly to»u1>:nil lo th^se itacri-
Gces, rather ihan comniii ihe natlonsl cbaracIerT'
For, were [Le Treaty nut carried into f ffecl, he
should coDbider it ns a great stain upoD the na-
lioaal character. Hc'vLetred the Treaty as a aa-
liooal compact, nnd a refuul of it, a violation of
it He vould ask, if c*er there was bq iostaiicp
knowa of a Treaty being made by the proper au-
Iboril]' iu aoy country, and instaally violated on
the ground ot wanting reciprocity? ludeeil. one
instance of the sort had been adduced from Eng-
lish history.aiatimeorgTeat factioo and disorder.
Would it not be a violation of the Treaty not to
carry it into effect? ^entleraeo had agreed thai
Ihe Treaty was the taw of the land. H no. it was
binding upon the people of the United Stalesj
and if binding upoii the people, it was al:<o binding
upon that House ; therelore. he trusted ihey should
not so far dei^radtr Ihe national character as to itny
Ibat such a Treaty should not be carried into effect.
because it wus not so sood a bargain as we ought
to have made. Yet he belieVed there were circum-
stances that would justify the violation of a Treaty,
when it had even progressed as far as the Treaty
before them. It might be so unequal and so ux-
trecnely mischievous, haz.irding Ihe rafety and
oxisience of the Republic, as to justify il:( ia-
fraction ; but he did not think there was any such
g'ound in the present ca^e. Il was ?iiid that the
ritisb bed, since negotiating the Treaty, captured
our vessels and impressed our seamen ; but would
this be a justifiable cause of infracting the Treaty 7
They did not know upon what ground the British
had made those captures; he believed some of the
vessels were cantured agreeably lo Ihe Law:i of
NatiotiK, and others merely from the predatory
conduct of the commanders o( British shipa-ot-
war and privateer".. Bui the way to redress wa.s,
to falfil ihe Treaty with good faith, and then re-
moDstnite with the British Government for these
violntions uf our neutral rights. TbU would be
honorable coodtict, the Inosi likely to get redress.
And to prevent a repetition of such abuses. With
respo«t to the capture of a vessel which had been
frequently mentioned, as being lately taken upon
our coast, within our territorial jurisdiction, he
had learned that the vessel was laden with French
property to a considerable amcuni, and captured
at sea. Yet this capture was made a theme of
declamation ia that House, though the owner and
persons concerned were perfectly satisfied of the
justice of the capture. He did not mean to jus-
tify [lie conduct of the British ; he believed they
had violated the Laws uf Nations ijwards us, and
that most of iheir captures bad. no juslili^ation
like the one just mentioned. He believed their
conduct would have justified war,but he believi
it was the interest of Ihe United Slates to trci
and not go to war. He had no doubt bul cot
pensalKin would be made to their merchan
from the British treasury, for all property taki
contrarr lo the Liw of Nations. Hf thought
Great Britain bad ceded a point in agreeing to
the appointment of Comniissioaers, waa should
even judge over their Supteme Courts of Adini>
rally. He thought there was a better chance of
pelting iecompeos»in this way, ihan by refusing
10 carry the Treaty into effect ; for it was in vaia
to e»pecl further negotiation. It was nol likely
that Great Britain would listen lo another nego-
tiatior; nay, they would be opt to treat a second
negotiation with contempt. He would not say
that Grear Britain would be di.'^posed to make w&i
upon us if we should reject the Treaty. She
might be content with the present slate of thinsi.
If she was suffered to retain the posts and ihe
elTt'Cts of the sDoliations, he supposed she would
be satisfied, at least for a time. Bui would it be
either for the honor or the advantage of this coun-
iry, that she should keep earrisons within our ter-
riiory and in the neighborhood of the Indlani^
ready to excite iheni to make war upon us when-
ever it pleased her ? Or would the merchants of
the United Slates sub^iit to have five millions of
their property withheld from them ? Should this
country withdraw ail negotiation, and say we
were content under such injurious and dishonor-
able circumstances ? He hdieveJ they would not.
And if not, what was to be done? They timst
either submil or recur to the dernier resort. Was
there a prospect of getting compensaii
y? Ht ■ ■ ■ ■ . ■ .-
nthin
speak in discouraging
terms of the strength and resources of ihi? coua-
try, but if they were to go to war, lei the coateit
be long or short, ibe end must be negotiation.
Woulu they, at ine end of the war, get pavment
for spoliations? or would the amount of tW spoli-
ations be equal to the cost they should he nut to 1
Was il certain that they should then be able to get
so good a bargain as the one before them 1 By it
the spoliations are to be made good, without the
expense of war. With resi>ect to the negroe>, it
seems to be decided that tlie British would not
agree to pay for them, as they cooieoded they bad
not agreed to restore Ihem.
It was understood Mr. Jay had insisted on a
dilTereat construction; but the British Ministry
would not submit to it; and it seems the B.-itbib
interpretation of the Treaty of Peace in this re-
spect is supported by some of our most enlighten-
ed citizens. And it is thought nol suppt^ble that,
inn new negotiation, they would be disposed la
yield ground they have uniformly contended for.
He would not dwell on the sequestration and
other articles in detail; they had beea ably de-
fended by others who had preceded him iu thede-
hale. On the whole, it appeared to bim that tba
Treaty was an equal one ; and if not, that they
could get a better by furi:ier negotiation ; its con-
tinuation, in respect to commerce, was only for
two years after the present war. Besides, the con-
stituted authorities had fully entered into and com-
pleted it. It was a national compact ; they ought
lo obey it, and ihey were under every moral and
political obligation to make aj^ropria lions to car-
ry it into effect.
Mr. F1N11I.EY said he should not think it neces-
sary to resume any of the arguments relative toft
principli; which had already beeo settled ia tbtt
House; yet, he obaerved, (oat every genltemu
;dbvG00gle
110*
HISTOHT OF CONGRESS.
lies'
H.ofR.]
Extcatum of Sr&M Treaty.
who spoke on the sabjnt seeing to argae iriiat
ynrt the rights of thai body upon the subject of
Treaties, as if no queatioo bad already been had
It fand been iDsUled upon, notwlthatanding the
dniiioD which had been had, that a Treaty was a
Iffw when it came before that Honse, and ihey
had no power but to appropriate to carry it into
cffitct. He said this opinion wa* directly contrary
to the opinion held on the C^nsiitniioo at the
time it was accepted in Pennsylvania. Moral
discretion, he said, was necessary to be exercised
id every decision of that House, except the Con-
■ttrntlon had prescribed to them some positiTe
rule of action. Id Tatifying the Consiitatioo' in
the State of PennsylraniBj this Wss the undei-
•Mcdingof it. The mtnonty in the Convention
dM Dot wish 10 mnch power placed in the Execu-
tive, and he appealed to gentlemen in that Con-
ventioHj if this was not the doctrine asserted by
(he majority in answer to the objections of the
minority. iDdeed, if they were not to have exer-
ckriia moral obligation upon the Treaties, the
Ccn litntion would have expressly said bo, as in
(he c-»se of the PREBincHTa salary, the pay of the
Jodgea, Army appropriations^ &c. If they had
not hem limited m these articles by the Cionsti-
tiHlon, they certainly wontd have had the power
to httve changed Ibem if they had thought proper.
But, passing over [his consideration, there had
been pretty large views taken of the manner in
whicfi the Treaty came before them. The gen-
tlemen from New York and Virginia had entered
into the subject. He must bee leave to differ from
the gentleman from New Tork as to the matter
of fact relative to thai House in ihe concerns of
Ooremroent two years ago. He had no appre-
hension at the time ihe Knvoy was sent to Britain
to negotiate a Treaty, thai Britain would have
eomiiMDced a war if that measure had not been
adopted ; so far from it, that a mkjority of that
House thought differently. He had no doubt that
war, and the destruction of liberty altogether, had
b^en meditated by Oreat Britain; but before the
negotiation- was commenced, circumstances oc-
cOrred which caused her to give up thii eiirava-
gant design. Before the negotiator was eppoint-
e(t, it is well known that the plundering Order of
the 6th November was revoked. The gentleman
front Virginia [Mr. Qileb] had given a »ery good
narrative of events in Enrope, which fully show-
ed the cause of this chance of condact. That
^entletnan had also gone through the Treaty, ar-
tiale by article, in a manner so much to his satis-
faction, that he should not attempt to follow him.
Before the n^oliation took place, we had suffered
eoBsiderably Vf British spoliations, and that
J^nse thougrht of various means to make it the
interest of thet Power not to continue their de-
pi<edatiooa. First one plan was proposed and then
amHiar. It need not be mentioned that amongst
these was the plan of sequestra I ion, the future
powwr of doing which this Treaty proposed to de-
W*ne them of. It was diidussed in the House.
IWbo question taken oa it, to thow that negotia-
ZiM wu not ihonght necessary. He mentioned
a conversation which had labeiv place betwixt ■
genilemao then in the Cabinet (nowKo more) and
himself, which confirmed his opinion of the
propriety of the measures. A bill for regulating
commerce in such a manner as to make it the in-
terest of Britain to refrain A'om injuring us, and
redress the wrong* we had suffered Dy spoliations,
was agreed to by the House, but negatived in the
Senate. So far from being then afraid of war,
ihey wete mote and mere convinced that it was
in their power to make it the intereslof Briiainio
refrain from thehr acts of violence towards us.
The genileman from New York [Mr. Wil-
LtAHs] spoke of the respectable character of the
President and Senator^ who had approved of the
Treaty ; bnt he could not agree that ihai was pro-
per argument for that House, merely on account
of their wisdom and respeciability ; becaose. in
order to give Ihal argument fair pby. it would be
necesfwry, after dit^pTsying all the perfections of
the PflESiDENT and Senate, to weigh the talents
and virtues of all those who were opposed to. and
in favor of the Tieaty,.and strike a balance be-
twixt them, wliich, it must be allowed, would be
a somewhat tedious business. For it must be ad-
mitted that many illustrious men, who Trere dis-
tinguished for tbeir understanding and early pa-
iriotiam, had joined in condemning the Treaty be-
fore them. He shuuld wi:?h, therefore, to waive
this as au argument
There were many other argtiments Used which
ht thought naworthy of notice; amongst loch was
rhe prosperity of New York and the number of
bouses built there, mentioned by the gentleman
from that State. He did not think the Spani^h
Treaty was interesting only to the people on the
Mississippi, and did not like to hear i>ucb expres-
sions as these: "You have sancticmed a Treaty
for the people oA the Mississippi, and will you not
carry into effect one for New York T" He neither
before nor since believed that one or other of the
Treaties would apply specially to those pli
Would the Spanish Treaty be of use only
the
^ . living on the MIssissipni ? He might say
it would raise the price of ine lands they were
about to dispose ofT But would not New York
enjoy advantages from the Mississippi trade?
Surelv it would ; for it could not easily be con-
ceived the quantity of European goods consumed
in that country ; and he apprehended that New
York would stand the best chance of getting (he
trade from thence, if it possessed alt the advanta-
ges which the gentleman described. It was well
known, that whatever trade was carried on there,
it must come through the Atlantic Stales, chiefly
through New York or Philadelphia. He only
mentioned this to show the absurdity of usiitg
such arguments. As far as he could judse. the
Spanish Treaty would be of service to the United
Staiei at large.
Whilst he was speaking upon tbis subject, it oc-
curred to him what had fhllen from the gentle-
nan from Bhode Island, [Mr. Bodsre] in replv
to the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. Page] wiih
respect to the Commissioners appointed by the
British Treaty. That gmtletiiaii cluirged hi*
;dbvG00gle
1199
HISTOfiT OF CONGSESS.
Ap^l^l7fla■J
Execviim o^ BrilUk Treatf/.
rH. or R.
frifad from Virginta wilh iaooDsisteBCf, becsBw
lie had rptiid for ibe Sputiih Treaty, wbicb ha*
its Commisaiooera the tame as tha British. But
thooffh the Comtoisuonen id the two Trratie.
for dietermiauig on the spoliatioDs ireni of iUl
(sme kiod, those appoinled iik consequence of the
British Treaty for deoiding on the debts due to
the Briiiah raetchanta were of aaotbci descrip-
tion, and it yna these he oupposed the gentleman
bom Virginia inteoded. The sobjecls referred to
theii decision had (ilher alrmdy been adjudgt^
by OUT own Courts, or were subject to the fiual
'-----— I of the Supreme Court (rf the United
-' — "^ ch it was declared in the Ooi '
1 Confess itself could only
Courts inferior to il. The Treaty Te&tiDg the
Coiamissioners with original aad Goal powers
eases cornpeieDtexcluBtrcly to the SugTeme
Inferior Courts, has erected a Court superior
to tbe Supreme Court. The spcJiatioiis are
subject to the jurisdictloa of our Courts, and .._ .
proper subjects for special Commissioners, and
therefore do subject of coioptHifit. He was not
about to deternune absolutely whether tbt ofBce
was unconslitutiooal or not ; but if it was not, he
knew not where to draw tbe line. But, while he
would leave it to others to dMermine whether it
was UD const itutioDal or not, he would give his
opinion that it was certainly loeapedient. If ibere
was security in conducting the inquiry, his objec-
tions would be less; but he knew no mode of set-
tlement more insecure. The iosetttiriiy was. also
all on the side of the Uuited Stales. It had been
also said that there had.beeD made bankrupts,
whose cases would be attended with dt£Gculiy.
The maaoer of taking testimony, as it bad been
described by the genncmau from Virginia, [Mr.
NicaOLiAS.] was certainly loose, and be had heard
* no one say it was not so. The bankrupt being a
party in tae decision, though not in tbe payment,
might make bis fortune by collusion wilh the Brit-
ish craditora.
He would take a glacoe at a few of (he nrticles
in the Treaty, and confine himself as much as
poasible to the observations which bad not already
been noticed, though he knew the difficulty of do-
ing this. The /Western posts, he said, were pro-
duced to balance every evil in the Treaty. The
gentleman frool Massachusetts, [Mr. GoooauH,]
who had certainly spoken most rationalljr upon
the subject, dwell upon the great commercial ad-
vaniages of these posts. Commerce, Mr. F. said,
was not the. sole object which these posts were
wanted to produce — it was peaoe, which they
wished to be secured by ibem. If it was merely
tutving these spots of earth, these forts, where was
tbe difference to ibem wbelher the British had
these posts or others a milt from them. Was
there any reason to believe that ibe British would
not continue to have as nuoh influence as ever
MDODg the Indians 1 Was he to make a sacrifice
far anylbina, it would be for the fotta. They
knew that ute British had had emissaries there
ready to do their purpose, who bad influenced
the shedding thebloodof our people. Those who
bad instigated tbe ludiass to make war npontbant
would have the same means of influencing stilL
Tbe gentlranan from Maswchusetls seemed b>
have in view, when speaking of these posts, tbe
getting of money only. This he could not com*
pare with the object be had in view, viz: peac*
OB the frontier. Would not that nation, wbo sub<
sidized almost all Europe, bare it in her powa,
if abe thought it her interest, to cramp or dii>coa>
rage our traders in that quarter, toiaise up the
Indiana against ihemi Would any geBllemanaay
they wootd notl It was not for any profit tbejr
reaped from it that the British held Canada ; they
baa other views. For this reason, be did not pal
such value upon the Canada trade as to bariai
peace and security to obtain it. What be wanted
was peace with tbe Indians; but while the Mc-
Eees, the Qtrties, Ac., oootinued wiih them, peace
would he insecure. He bad no idea of friendship
from ihe British Oovemraent; be believed aO
such reliance would be ill-founded.
There had been a great deal said about the re*
imbursemeniof spoliations, the payment of Brit-
ish debts, and recompense for tne negroes. He
had not an opportunity of bearing ifae whole of
tbe observa lions of thasentleman from CmneetH
cut, [Mr. Hitj.iioosB.] being cmlled ont of tbe
House on business ; what he beard, he bad heard
with pleasure. That gentleman said, the claim
for recompense for negroes was not well founded.
He allowed ibat ihere wa* plausible ground for
the assertion, and be had taken that ground ; bat
he believed there was proof within reach tbat
would prove the justice of ihe claim. He believ-
ed ibal wbcQ Mr. Laurens was released from tbe
Tower of London he was employed m an em busy,
and instructed to receive compenaatien for ne-
groes. That the subject was then taken Dp. asd
tbat the negroes and book debts were coosMered
as opposed to each other. If so, the gentleman'a
asaertioB must be unfounded. He believed the
claim for recompense for negroes was as strong
that for the recovery of the British debu^ an<l
equiuble.
With respect to spoliations, be presumed that
they should get no greater amount than tbe Laws
of Nations would entitle tbem to, ihousfa he had
lilile faith in the British eooslruction of that law,
and did not wish to go to war for them. He did
not know what the amount would be of the whole
ipoliatiooB committed ; and if be did, he should
have more difficulty to say what part of it was
likely to be reimbursed by. the Treaty. Nor di4
he know the amount of British debts to be paid,
It might not, perhaps, be so great as had been re-
presented ; but, from what infoimalioo he had re-
ceived, he beUeved itwouldbe much greater than
the genileman from Masaaobusette [Mr. GooD-
lEj had made it.' He was informed of one honse,
t of the State of Virginia, which owed almost
large a sum as that gentleman had mentioned
for the whole.
He had never beard before of a Legislature be-
ing laid under an .obligation to pay the debts of
individuals, agreeably Jo such a decision as is not
regulaied by ihe laws, nor adjudged by tbe Conrta
subject to wbicb the debts bad been oontraded
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT OP CONGRESS.
Execution of Brilith IVtaty.
[Aj-ait^noe.
bat by k moAe or liqnidatkiD, a
O-urU of law. Thii h( '
4ieiit, eipcchUf as no CI
Ihe amount.
This was one weighty reeson against eairyiog
the Trraiy into effect, tnougli not exclusively ol
Olber rpasona, perhapa a EuflicieoE f^non for re-
j^ciing ii. He knew genttemeD said Ibat tbey
s obliged to pny these debts, be ibe amotiDt
what they mav. as ibeir payment had been pra-
Tenied by legal iiDpedimenis. These deLta. how-
r, would be greailv increased by ihi
tereitt, if it were iq be paid, and they coold cot
irerkoD upon this aM being the reault This pro-
bably would depend on which of the [vrties would
have the choice of the fifth Commissioner.
With respect to the spoliations coinmitted upon
their merchants, he had felt much lor them. He
CDuld not say what would be theamountorih^se;
but he said there would be ao much of the insu-
rance 10 deduct froRi the amount as had been paid
by the contumers in the price of the goods. As
the British ought to make ifaoae losses good, this
conld araue no abaieinent in favor of that nation,
that mignt be ao argument in abatement of that
clBim il it was made against our ows citizens.
In reference to sequestration, it having already
been well explained, he should say but Tittle. 11
was patting with the power, not for two yean',
but forever. It was parting with a power which,
by the terms of the Treaty, we conld nut recover
even in the event ofa war^ and that with reiipeci
to a nation against whom it eould only be of ure.
That nation might take all our vefsels, be|i>rc we
could make any reprisaU at all. It was Rtrinping
Ihcm from every efiVciusl defence. He ki
aome merchants who wished the Treaty ic __
carried into effi^;!. thwigh none of them believed
il good, but they wish it on account of the pro-
perty which the British have taken, and which
they eipect to be paid for, and fnim an apprehi
aion. if the Treaty be not carried intn effect, v
will be the cannequence. These mercbaiits do
not like the plan of sequestra lion ; ihey
upon the measure himself as the last resort, either
to prevent or commence war with advantnge
He did not hke to rxercise it, neither did he lik<
10 fight ; but lie wonld not give away his arms
becauKC they were the means of security from it;
being known be had them.
He did not know the amount of money owing
from this country to Great Britain ; hut. from in-
formation from contending parties he found the
Miimate to vary from half a million to fil^een
millioDs. It was also continually increasing.
The power of neq nest rating this money would
the BritiHh Oovernment fr
extent
her plundering system to any alarming
and would be a means of preserving peace and
prevenling war, which he eould not think gentle-
laen were seriuus ia asserting, would be the con-
wquenca of not carrying the Treaty into eSect.
Several inembera are candid enough to acknow-
ledgo (ha( thia would not b« the veauU.
Our articles of eiporl, said Mr. F., being of Ihe
first nrceasiiyj muat be bad when they ere wanted,
and Great Britain will not purchase them, except
(he be in the greatest need. She tiiok do flour
bat when in absolute want. Nations wer* ufaliged
from nrcessiiy to take our produce when they are
in want; hul it was not so with respect to British
etports. They have, indeed, by their induMrr
and management, got their manufactures cele-
brated ell over the world. They are an arllul
people, atid it behooves us to be careful how we
come into their power; for he believed no nation
that ever waa in their power ever escaped with-
out injury. If the present Treaty went into
efl'ect, they should give up to Great Britain many
iportani advantages without return. And he
J not aee any necessity for this, since we wero
the most^valua'ile customers she had, and il would
be her interest to keen on good terms with this
lUnlry upon reasonable coodliions, in order lo
ive ttieir manufactures consumed, and get our
money.
He would admit that the Treaty with rrsrect
to the East [odiet was not highly objictioNble;
but he did not agree with the gentleman from
Mastnchusetis that il was the most Advantageous
commerce in which this country was engaged.
He did not compare the trade to the Bast Indies
with that to the West Indies. The latter took
the produce of the country ; but the former took
no produce, cash only was carried there to ;iur-
chave East India good.<. They knew thi- cffrci of
the East India trade. It was of doubtlul advan-.
iHge to the country, p^licularly when cash was
scarce in the country, and ererv body was pressed
for bard money tu send out toere. The an ides
brought from the East Indies were articles of
convenience ; the trade was in some degree valoa- _,
ble. but by no means to be compared to the Wi si
India trade. The Treaty originally gave the
United Stales the privilege of trading to the Bri-
tish West Iiidiesi but it was upon such condi-
tions that the Seoaie chose rather to have nothing
t:Mn trade upon such terms ; but having lost this
ariicle, something was wanted in its stead. To
obtain a permanent interest in ihe West India
trade was the grvatesl object we coukl have in
view in making a Commercial Treaty; this not
being obtained, we have gained nothing for all
the advantages we have transferred, except the
posts, clogged with other conditions than our ori-
Mr. F. said, he would not detain the Craimit-
lee by general remarks with respect lo the com-
mercial part of the Treaty. It. however, increases
that connexion with Great Britain wbich waa
already loo great. The British merchants ac-
commodated our ciflzens with credit, but this
advantage drew evils along with it. The in-
fluence of debtor and creditor made it the inte-
rest of a large class of respectable cilixens to be
connected WJth Great Britain; and if anything
was done to affect that interest, it agitated almost
every merchant and every store-keeper through-
out the United States. He did not design, by any
riolent exertions, to weaken the cziaiing coooei-
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Apsl^ 179a.]
Execution ef BrilM Trtalg.
[M.UPB.
ion ; but he would bjr na meani strengthen and
JDcreaH il. This roDKidenilion had great weight
with bim, for most nBtians who had had any cloie
ronoexion with [hat, country had naSVred by ii.
"We, oumelvn, are a striking inaiajics of it. and ao
was Hailaild, Portugal, &■=. But, with ell the
objectiuDK he had mentiooed, if be thought the
coDsequencMof the rejection of the Treaty would
be what they bod been [iredicted by gentlemen,
be would vote forcarrying it into effect. But he
was Ihr froni ibiokinK ho. Whilst he was debal-
iag upun this subject, he wished to have his
mtnd free from fear, and not have a rod beld orer
bis head, the scourge of tyranny. Yet terror:
were held over them. If Great Britain was that
road nation, to make new Laws of Nations, and
break all the bonds of society, they might ajipre-
heod 8 war, and its consequent efijs; but if not.
they need to have no fear ujioa them on this head.
Fur his pnrt, he could not see how a refusal to
carry the Treily with Qreflt Britain into eHect,
was to ])roduee war. Was it likely that tthe
would desert every interest of trade to go to war
with her best costomersT Peace with us was as
necessary in the {iresent stale of thiuga to Great
Britain as to a^.
Was it not atea that the adfantages which
were prmKned to be given to the United Sta'es
by the Treaty to trade 10 the East Indies, were
Sven for their own interevt, and not for ours?
ourts mi^bt have some generosity, but monopo-
lizing trading cumpaDies have none, aud therefure
no aSvnniage could be expected to be given by
the English East India CJmpany, except tbey
had th« hope of a greater in return. The imdc
Tvas allowed because advantageous to the United
Siate». If it was the interest t\no of Great Hi
jnin to allow us to trade to the West Indies, she
%voulil allow it, but not elir. The increasing
population nnd wealth of ihii countrv were ob-
Ieets of great consequence to the traae of Great
Jrilaia* It wa^ strange, therefore, to hear gen.
tlemen talk of onr obligation to her, when the
obligation lay the other way. It wan our interest
not to be bound to them. It had been said, be-
cause ire were weak, we aoghi to have eonnes
ion -with Q.-eot Britain. But he believed we
ouzbi to act a- tVeernen. Let us find our own
reituurces ; if we do juslir^e and behave well our-
selves, yre shall get it. We bare another securi
ty, it is the- interest of Great Britaii. that we
should do RO. It would be the interest of nil
countries to keep them.ielves from being depend-
ant on them. A new state of things bad taken
place in Europe. This caused him to recollect
frhnt had been mentioned in the coune of the
debatr by the genilemHa from New Yurk, viz:
that two years ago they were very desirous of
treating with Great Britain. This was the flrsi
timo he had beard of it, thovgh he was then in
the Hooae. 8j far from ft, they wished lo settle
Ibrir own commerce, not thinking it good policy
to bind themselves to any other nation, because-
ibey were not then come to maturitv ; they knew
not what would bs best ; they wished to he at
liberty to regulala their ovo eommene according
lo circumstances. He knew that Ibe people of
''" United States, and the members of that
se, weresurprised when a Commercial Treaty
was first mentioned. No such thiof wa^ intended
or expected by that Hou^e, or oy any bodr.
When the Envoy was sent lo Great Britain, ub-
tainiag redress for the spoliations, dsc, was the
only oljject of hi^i mission.
A number of observations might be made upon
the subject, but he believed the otieniion of the
Committee was pretty much wearied, and indeed,
raofi ol the things which he would have noticed
had been touched upon by gentlemen already.
The Treaty did not give security for the future;
it did not give the advantages we had a right lo
expect, What it did^ive was improperly clogged;
it deprived us of an important and powerful de-
fencej and, therefore, left us. even when ratified
and carried into eC'Ct, in a state of hostility;
depredations continued tu be committed on out
trade, and our citizens impressed contrary to the
Law of Nations. On inese grounds, he con-
ceived, it was inexpedient tu cany the Treaty into
The Committee now rose, and had leave lo'ait
agai
HsRTLET presented a petition signed by
ds of 690 merchants o* '
delphia. and another from i
'cUy"'^'
Phik-
Philadclphia, praying that provision might be
made with all convenient despatch for carrying
into effect the British Treaty.
Mr. SwANVicK also prescDted a petiliun signed
by 1,500 persons, inhabitants of the city and
neighbiirbood of Philadelphia, praying that the
British Treaty might not be carried into effect.
The above petitions were severally read, and
referred to the Committee of the Whole upon
the stale of the Union.
TntiBgoAT, April 21.
Mr. MuaLEHBERo presented a. petition from
800 inhabitants of the city of Philadelphia, of the
same kind with thai presented by Mr. Swahwiok
yesterday, against the British Treaty.
■■ IsAAO Snitk also prefcnted a petition from
habitants of Trenton in favor of the British
Treaty! nod
Mr. Hartley jwesenled a petition from 100
merchants and others of the city of Philadelphia,
and another, signed by 183 persons, irihabitanis of
the said city, in favor of Ihe Briiisfi Treaty.
The above petitions were referred to the Com-
mittee of the Whole on Ibe state of the Union.
The amendments of the S?nalPtothe bill for
the relief and pmieciion of American seamen,
were read, and referred to a select committee.
The House resolved itsL-lf into a Committee of
the Whole on the bill for makine appropriations
for defraying the expenses wbicl) may arise in
carrying into effect the Treaty with the Di;y and
Regency of Algiers; and on the bill for making
further provision relative to the revenue cutters;
which were agreed to in the Committee, went
through the Hjuse, and were ordered to be en-
grossed, and to be read a ihird time to-morrow.
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HISTOaT OF GONGRBSSj
I1.0PR.]
Exeautim tf Britith Trtatf.
[AruulTM.
OUTIEe ON DOMESTIC 8PIRITB.
Tbe HoDse theo rescrfvej itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole OB the report of tbe Committee
of Commerce and MaDDfactures, relative to an
eloctioD being giren to certain [wrsoas to pay a
'duty for the quantity of spirits didilled, instead
of aceordiagr to the capacity of their stills j and
come to the following resolmioD] wbicfa was
agreed to by the House ;
"Jietolved, That in eyery case of a distiller
vho hath entered his still or stills, in 'uch manner
as to be liable to pay ihe duty of fifty-four cents
upon the capacity or capacities thereof, fot the
year, to end in June, one thousand seven hundred
and ninety-^ix, wherein it shall be made to appear
to the 8upervi:ior of the DiatricE, that tbe said
distiller has bern really and truly prevented from
employingor working nit still or stilU, during the
term aroresaid, hy the destruction or failure of
fruit and grain within tbe district in which he
resides, it shall and may be lawful for the said
Supervisor, on application made to him any time
before .the last day of September next, to admit
■ucb distiller to the benefit of an election, to pay,
ID lieu of the duly oo the capacity of bis still or
stills, tbe sum of seven cents on every oallon of
spirits by him therein manufactured: Provided,
That the duties to be received in consequence of
•noh election, shall be ascertained, collected, and
paid, according to the directions and requisiiioos
of the several laws relating to domestic distilled
spirit!!, in such manner as would have been the
case, if sucb election bad been originally made ai
tbe time of entry, in June, one utousand seven
hundred and ninety-five."
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pur-
■a«nt to the said resolution; and that the Com-
mittee of Commerce and ManuAicturet do pre-
pare and bring in the same.
HORSES KILLED IN ACTION.
The Hoon resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the report of the Committee of
Clabna, to vbom was referred a letter from Ar-
thur St. Clair, respecting a claim for the loss of
three horses killed in the action with the Indians,
on ibu fourth of November, one thousand seven
hundred and niniity-one; and came to a resolu-
tion, which was twice read, and agreed to by the
House, as follows:
" Reaoleed, That evety officer of the United
Stateii, wbof^e duty requires him to be on horse-
back in time of action, and whose horse shall be
killed in battle, be allowed a sum not exceeding
■ dollars, as a compensaiiou for each horse
MO killed i and this provision shall have retro-
Seclive operation as far a« the fourth day of
arcb, one thousand seven hundred and eighly-
uine; Provided, No person shall receive payment
for any horse so killed, until he make Ratislaciory
proof to the Secretary of War, that the borse for
wMch he claims compensation, was actually
killed under such ciicumstances as to entitle him
to this provision, in all casei which have hereto-
fore t^en iJace, witbin one year after tbfl present
horse sbdl be liilled. And the proof of valua
shall be, by the affidavit of the ^uartermaMer of
[he corps, or two other creditable witnesses."
Ordered, That the Committee of Claims bring
in a bill parsuant to the said resolution.
EXECUTION OF BHITISH TREATY.
Tbe House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the suie of the Unitm ; when tbe
resolution for carrying into, effect the Britiik
Treaty being under coittideratian, Ur. RtrraBS-
roH» spoke as follows:
Mr. Chairman : In « aeriona investintion of
this matter, I shall to the utmost seek lor truth,
to do- away as much as may be, snch prejudices
as have consequently been imbibed, guided by
reason, justice, and tbe real state of things.
And to avoid, as far as possible, repeating ob-
servatinns of otners, it may be necessary to tw
somewhat retrospective, which I hope will not
be considered as altogether improper.
This virtuous people have an lutdonbted right
to be heard by their RepreaentativeL who are en-
gaged by all the generous feelings of tha human
heart, to discharge the important trust reposed in
them wilb fidelity and firmness.
All Governments, in the outset, have assumed
smiling and placid features, but have lieen still in
a greater or less degree in hostility with the equal
rights of the people, and in the end, have ani-
formly managed them ont of those sacred rights.
Experience teaches this inccnlestiUy.
Shall not ibis people reason then on n subject
of such magnitude, after all that ibey have
achieved? Or, shall they hesitate to scan with
minute circumspection the slate of their Diofoe»-
lous concerns, when they may consider their dear
glved in a decision ?
And to tell Ihe people that a Wmbimoton
firesides, and therefore all miui be right, is feehle
anguage, to say no more; for, though we all coo-
cur respecting that honeil man, we know at the
same time, tluit he, with all who brenthe this vital
air, must ere long yield (o an immutable dauM
in the universal law.
And have this people any security for tbe up-
right actings and doings of his tuecaxsor, perhaps
a mere Nero, though he hat been an Octavins—
an Alfred?
Here 1 beg leave to review the patriat labors of
this good man, conjoined with Haneoc^ Frank-
lin, Sullivan, Randolph, ind a list of patriots and
worthies too numerous to name, and the task
would be painful, as many of then are, alas, iko
This aswmhlage of great men convened at thii
place in 1774. and after an anxious and intcresl-
mg xilence, tliey named the American Cieero to
unfold the mighty businen that occasioned their
meeiiog ; and while great Henry spoke, the gene-
"US patriot tear filled every eye.
They then addressed tbe justice, humanity, snd
affeciiona of their former naaaler^ in atrang, man-
ly, and moving teniu, and Ungaagetlint will do
;dbvG00gle
in*'
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
ins-
Ariiit,.1796.J
ExeaUian of BriHth TVwify.-
hoDor to that ^oap of groat men. while it re-
maios B striking eridene^ of their aDcommon
mental powers.
Another guileless address, in still taore power-
ful tangoaze, was prepared and sedt forward in the
month of June, 1779, tmavaiUog asthe fir^t. At
lel^th it was resolred, that the people should re-
turn the blows, and the violencej ther had endur-
ed, and a man in whom the great characters of
antiquity united, was selected to ilead out otir
brave youth and virtuous bands.
All rushed forward jb the common caase : the
tender sex, with Spartan valor, gave up the sons
of their warm affectioDS to combat under their
chieftain and common parent, while they stinted
their younger children to comfort as far as they
could the brare men in arms. I live a witness of
what I advance.
And shall this great and virtuaas people trem-
ble now 'with su]iersIiiious horrors or unmanly
fears, after astonisHing the observing world, and
for whom the generous Oaulcrossed the wide At-
lantic, to combat side by side, in many a martial
field?
Shall the same people now request, as a boon,
to be the servants, and ad venturous painful collec-
tors for those who could not enslave them, while
few in numbers and apparently destitute ?
Has the Treaty of 1783 been faithfully observ-
ed T Or is there a sentence in that Treaty that
looked towards the Americaa people that has not
been violated? And has not this violation been
the cause of horrid, indiseriminetecamage on our
extended frontier ?— not to mention the enor-
moos expense to the Union.
But it is now umd by some, that the present
Treaty must be religiously observed on our part,
be the terms what they may. Much might be
said on this subject, but I wish to draw a veil,
■od to commit injuries to silent oblivion, because
I regard that people for alt their virtues.
It is with much concern I discover good patriots
and respectable merchants alarmed, for the fron-
ir and our commerce ; these call for reasoning,
as the peace and prosperity of individuals is very
near to me, Who would endure much to render all
perfectly happy. Feai
'If still hi
snduremnch to render
t, generous merchants!
you will still have the commerce of that nation ;
remember they are a great commercial people,
too wise to gratify an unavailing malignity to their
disadvantage, as the commerce of this country is
much in their favor, But I conjure you. as friends
and patriots, and by the gratitude and justice due
to onr common country, and to a generous people
who have fostered yon. not to be partisans of any
Dation. or to persnade such nation that they are
treated rigorously, and their ruin con tern plated, be-
cause cuch opinions are nuite unfounded, and no
good purpose can result from the propagation of
such.
And fear not, virtuous farmers! your lan'dswill
peld tbeir harvests, and your trees their fruits,
independent of the smiles or the frowns of an^ na-
tion on earth ; and the surplusof your toils will at
all times be received with gtmd win, agreeably
with Iheexitting demand. lUasoti and gtKtd sense
will te&ehyon however that tbepresentdemandcan
not be of long dumtton, and the same train of eon-
cnrriug circumstances may not prevail while any
of us are in being— so that to imagine acommerce
with any one nation as' bavin? produced such de-
mand is fallacions and unfounded in the extreme.
Ko nation br people will take ofif this surplus lo
HVTve or oblige the American people if their inter-
ests have no share in the business;
I shall now return to the subject of our frontier,
and inquire, what can Induce a great nation to
wreak an unavailing vengeance on men, bending
under the pressure of time, and on innocent wo-
men and cliildrenl Surely the annals of a mag-
nanimous people have too long been stained, and
charity revolts at an idea that the same'people
will continue such scenes ofhorror for mere sport,
if they really had the power, which could only
create an aversion in the American mind, that
time would not eradicate, and divert a lucrative
commerce to that nation, into channels from
whence it wonld never return. The inoffensive
Ainericans contemplate no conquests, nor do they
wish to interfere in the politics of other countries
further than justice and the warm calls of grati-
tude demanif, and their own safely as a naiiott
shall dictate. Shall this people, then, be restrain-
ed in transporting tbe surplus of a painful indus-
try to such as receive the same with gladness and
mutual confidence | or shall they fear an arrest od
the sreat liquid highway, where the inhabitants
of the deep roll at pTeasnre, firee as air ? Has the
Deity given « patent for that element to any de-
scription of His creatures ; or will not the great
law ofall nations protect tbe American (las while
they support a national character 1 And tne peo-
ple of Britain are too wine, magnanimous, and
just, to increase the reproachful character of migh-
ty sea-rob hers.
If the present Treaty is defeated, as it ought to
be, the matter will then be open to friendly and
equal negotiation ; and though the commtnrce of
that country is much against the common interest
of this country, yet the people have no fixed a
tipathy to treat c
eiprocity. Read
third article of this Treaty,
converts our territory, so long withheld, in to mere
neutral groond, and to foster our most inveterate
foes — these stamp the whole. I will read only the
paragraph alluded to, and that, I trust, will place
the matter in a proper point of view, and induce
some serious reneciions on this business, as the
warmest advocates for the Treaty cannot miscon-
strue that paragraph. It will evince a friendly
disposition and a desire to establish good neigh-
borhood, harmony, and intercourse, if tne Weelera
posts are no longer detained, by tbe most roanifest
infraction of a Treaty, solemnly concluded more
than thirteen years since. Foi surely a Treaty,
while the hatchet of death wassospendcdoverthe
heads of out aged men, and our innocent women
and children, can neither be cordial nor of long
duration. The British nation have too much
wisdom to draw a different conclusion, and they
will, 00 a dispassionate retrocpeet, ssrely decide
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
M.orK.J
ExtcaHoK of British Tnalg,
[APRI^17M.
with pruJeoce and jtuiice. The Americaai de-
mand oomorelban jUKiiUiftDil thejr wiHh toaroid
allreialiatiuii,ihougli wiihia the Jr power. . Ttiis
bein^ truly the Ktate of things sbafl Ihr Temple
of Justice be shui, and this people be deaied the
adra^ta^es reaulliaj; fram ihln uoerrinj guide ta
man, huJ coeral with the |>liysical world 1 Trea-.
ties embrace Ilit; dearest interests of a aation.
Then burely the Treaty -ma king power mu^l be
itubjeci lo sume oiher power or control. Reason
U ilupned by an idea ibal a people can traaifer
power, b^yood their owa control, without an al-
leruativc, or that the preneni geaeratioH can bind
posteriiy forever.
Much streM liaj been laid on the Pbesidckt's
■ignature ; sa that I will inquire what could the
PacmuENT do but sign thia Treaty, as it came to
bis hands? Was it not natural fur a man of hisbu-
roaniiy lo shudder at the idea of being solely re-
Kpuniiible. in a business of such moment, while
he was stunned, as it were, by the surri>undiug
ery of war. from such as dreaded that event?
Sjrely, the misfortune was antecedent to (hat
■igaature, and originated in sending one man to
negotiate with a very wise and powerful Court;
JM-dctised for ceoturiea in all her arts of negotia-
tion, not to speak of the best skilled, and most
Swerful companies of merchants on earth. Was
r. Jjy on equal eiouad? I shall not reply.
Afucb might be added. But shall we not reason
on this great subject ere it be loo late 7 I speak
for ihiHgeneroiispeople,aDd for all posterity. I
am intimately connected with the present race;
my relatives are uumeruus, and every man of pro-
bity and pjtriutisra iimvlrieod, and let no honest
man fear the level of Ib^is virtuous people.
Dj good patriots reQeci on the consequences
resulting from tbelr principles, and on the great
difficulty that prenenti in recalling powersonce''ur-
renderedl Argumeoia to prove that all issiniliog
prosperiiy,are very fallacious, and cannrfl operate
lurcibly agaiost a prudent and timely precaution
(o turn a^jde those evils which must ensue if
such precaution be neglected— ane scruple of pre-
venlion being of more real worth than many
pounds of remedy. Or, will a man of common
sense recline Id the shade on a fine summer day,
without redecting that night, and even wintry
storms and pinching cold, will approach 1
Muuh haj been said without these walls nbout
British debts, and an averaimi to pay. by many
who are not rightly informed in thLt matter, and
hurried on by party clamor) but fur the informa-
tion even of those, 1 will o^cT a few words by
way of reply. The ftrong Cutting Companies in
Great Biitain had long received the produce
aiUmg from the labor of individuaU in some
Scales, and all the specie that the people could
acquire, was uniformly received by their factors,
by which these companies became .n ore power-
fal and wealthy. That they really engrossed the
trade of wme Btatei, and worried and run down
the native merchant by a general credit, which of
course created some bad debti, as is the course in
cumraon life. And ihiaevtl was increased by the
flight of their ractors, who shut tbbic books, and
retired so soon as the great conflict commeoeed.
And I have biren told, and believe it to be a fact,
that some of these companies actually fitted out
privateers to cruise agaioiii those of our friends
and supporters, which in reality was distressiog
this people. Bo that as it majr, everjr man iM
property who had not deposited his debt for them,
hastened to pay so soon a^• their factors returned to
inform them the amoupt of their several debts.
Bm will any man contend that the United States
ought 10 be responsible for bad debiA, contracted at
the desire of those companies, and with desiga
to cut up the native merchants? What can enti-
tle them to this great indulgence ? did they send
their several factorK to serve the people ?
But to return to the Treaty. Was the PsEai-
DEKT satisfied with the Treaty? Surely not;
but were not a well-informed anJ very respecta-
ble minority in the Senate decidedly agaiusi this
Treaty ; and have not the member? of this more
numerous body an undoubted right to judge for
their constituents, ^ho have reposed such confi-
dence in them? They intend no reflections on
the PBESiDENTand Senate; they consider them
as acting fur the best at ibe lime they did act,
and with the inf;>rmatton they then possessed;
but limu and observation has supplied tbis House
with such iuformation as the S>nate could doI be
nof.
:oniending about the virtues of
the pREsroEHT, or of tlie 8-nate. All regard
the pREBiDfiNT ai a common parent, and rever-
ence the Senate for all their virlue.i and the sta-
tions which the people have assigned them. Upon
ibe whole, I call to my Eastern patrioLt, felluw-
laborers, and conjure them by their BfiVciioos for
tliis our common country, by the manes of the
great Warren, and all our departed patriouand
eroex, not to he duped by an opinion, that ma-
lignity and partv spirit actuate members to bit-
terness against tbe PREStnENT and the S,:oaie Ibi
sinister purposes. Such opinions are not ad-
vanced by the friends of the Union or of the
Revolution, and being entirely unfounded, ought
to he viewed with horror and contempt.
Finally, I call to the Biitish nation, warning
and conjuring them, by tbeir real interest, and
national cbaracler, not to indulge a violent ot
captious malignity, which can only tend to sever
the two nations while they exist as nuch.
Thus have I oHered my sentiments with sin-
cerity^ and I trust, with renpect to all. while I am
conscious of the truth and the justice of what I
have advanced, but shall yield to the opinions of
a majority of the Representatives of the people
as they may decide, and without a murmur.
Mr. HcMiEBaoM desired to know what the
gentleman who just sat dowo meaDt,whenheaaid,
"look at a firebrand ea>t among out councils,
which appeared and dissitiated ?"
Mr. Ri7TBERFOflD said, tvety one must recol-
lect thai a certain agent cast a u.'eb.-and, and two
days afler took his canvasi wingi across iba
Mr. HENnBRion espreised bimself dJaratisfied
with the uplanation.
;dbvG00gle
1131
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
ArtiL,1796.]
BxeetUitm <4 BrilMi TVntfy.
Mr, HooBK — Mr. CtmirmflD, 1 rise wfA diffi-
deoce *.o gire my seDlimeiiu on ao imnortant n
qaenioB as ihnt now befbre jron, etpecwiljr as 1
hare be«a preceded by gtmWmea wboK iiuperjnr
abi)iti» hare enabled thpm to inresti^f ibr
•ubject with more accuracy than I am capable of
I consider the object as imponaot of iiseU. It i*
rendered more so by the warmth with which ii
bat been discnwed — the irritation it has pro-
doced, both in this House and on the public mind.
I laoaent that improper TDOlirea ihouid be impa-
led to gentlemen oil eithnr side. I am disposed
lo betiere, that genitemen aim at doing what wilt
bert l^romnie the public intere»L I enterihin no
■wpteion of designs against the Oorernment by
any member of this Houm, or any bnnch of the
Qorernmenl. Oeuilemea hare predicted a war
and disaoliition of the Qorernment, if proriaion
b tint made for lArrying the Treaty into eflVct.
1 bare no apprehensionsi of either. It is highly
improper to attempt lo influence the rotes of
members by such declarations. I hope gentlemen
will believe that members who difl'er from ihem
in opi Dion, are eitually zealous wiih Ihemselrex
io discharging (heir duty, and have firmness
enoagh to repel every attempt to intimidate.
For myxelf, I bare equal conBdence in erery part
of the Union, that they hare no wish to dissoiri'
it. The suggestion is unrounded, and oaght not
to be Buide.
Mr. Chairman, the rote which I shall gire 9n
the qnntion before us, will, in vinie degree, he
influenced by a Conxiiiutional principle, which 1
consider as inrolved in the decision. On tbereso-
luiioQ calling for the instrncijons given to Mr.
Jay, and other papers refatire to the Trenly. it
was insisted on by members of this House, that
the Bxecniire has a risht, by Treaty, to sopcr-
•ede all L^gislatire powers rested in Congress by
the Gomlitu lion. The Exeeuirre gires the same
eoDstruetion to the Constitution. If. under these
circumstances, I rote for the resolution before
yoo, 1 consider myself as admitting, a* recog-
nising the principle contended for. This I cannot
do. On the admission, or rejection of this princi-
ple, I «m of opinion, the fotore course, the future
operatioosof Qorernmenl materisllv depend. By
this it will be decided, whether it ts wholly Es-
ceativeor not; whether this HoOM depends on
thecoarlesy of the Exeentire fbr their right to
inierfire in legislation.
It has been argued, that ibis extenaire, unlimi-
ted power, was necessarily vested in the BxecU'
lire, subject only to ibe control of the Senate.
In order lo suppuii the sovereignty and independ-
ence of the small States, I do eonceire Ihat a
branch of the Legislature in which the Smies are
equally represented, was all that could be claimed.
Cin it be eoneeired lo be necessary, just or pro-
per, that the regulation of all the important inie-
resli of the Union should be at the disposal of
the Executive 1 Can geottemen seriously he-
Itere ihnt the citizens of the United States, who
opposed. Bt so gveat an expense of blood aitd trea-
rare, the claim nf Great Britain to tax us unre-
prewated, would admit all tbeir intercat lo be |
contended for? It baa been asiied, Is not the Sen-
ale as worthy of the confidence of the citizens of
the United Slates as this House ? T will ask, are
they more 1 This Legrsiative power is restrained
and checked by the Constitiilion; panic ulartnodest
and restriclions are prescribed, but no checks are
imposed on (he Executive, Were the people jea-
lous of this House, nnd not of the other branches?
Did they suspect the Legislature of doing wrong?
When this House was connected with the other
branches, were ihey to regulate their interests ;
and hare they repoed unlimited confidence in
the other branches when icting without this?
Did they consider this House as the only branch
from which any danger was to be apprehended?
It is impossible, yet this must have been the fact,
if the constractiun given to the Constitution is a
just one.
A gentleman from Connecticut has said, that
gentlemen had prejudged the Treaty; thev come
forward with prejudices against it, determined to
vole against it. It is not so with me. I was
strongly inclined to vole for it; tu make some
degree of saenfiee rather than defeat it.
Gentlemen, on rpfleriion, must be convinced
that the question has not betn prejudged. The
Envoy was sppointed at the moment when this
House wBs dftibeniiing on means for preventing
further spoliations on our commerce. Commer-
cial reiulalions were proposed, and other means
from which they might have been forced to aban-
don (heirunjust and oppressive system. I remem-
ber well (he Hrcnnieois then ttsed were convinc-
ing to niy mind ; that tho»e were the only wea-
pons of defenre within our power; that they
would be effectual. But these were arrested by
the despatch of'nn Envoy Extraordinary. Same
of the leading features of the Treaty were then
predicted ; the event has corresponded with (hose
prediclionr. Principles were then discussed, which
the Trenly contains, before the negotiator was
pi<oinied.
This shows there was no prejudging in the man-
ler gentlemen have slated. By this Treaty nil
the measures then contemplated by the Legisln^
tare are arrested; an eternal veto is imposed
against our ever carrying the measures then con-
temphted Into effect. This shows that the Exe-
cutive clnim-< not only the Constitutional right of
forcing this Honse to pass what laws they pease,
but also, by Treaty, to declare what they shall
rt do.
We have passed a resolotion, which is now on
your files, declarative of ihe sense trf" this House
as to their Constitutional rights. The <)ues(<on is,
iwever, nndeeided. The Executive and Senate
ill proceed to act on their own const rtieti on.
They may, on their own consiruction, make a
Treaty, which will imply a still more inipe'
and commanding necessity lo provide for its
I, than even the present case. Thi-t ne-
contended for by this House. It may force an ac-
quiescence in (he Executire regulatingall the inle-
resiaof theUnijD. I believe it mia not the aetise
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT OF COiffGRSW.
lid4
Em9U¥» lof BrmOk Trtaly.
[Apxl^ 1796.
of the ii»iii«n o( the Coiuliuiiioa. k u not th«
HBte of the people who adopted it It nevv o«a
be mine.
The meiitB of the Treaiy bar« bean «b1f and
^scuntelr dUcuaM4. I will make but *. few r«-
JBuks on il. I mast disagree with the gemleinuD
£uiinCoDnectU:ui,whoineDtii)ned.UBwellkiiowD
principle in judgiiig of Treaties, that all praperty.
(by fair coaatruciion, and by the eatabliuied Law
of NatioaE,) if notexcepted particularly in a Trea-
ty, lemaiuB in ibe same itate in which it wis
found when ihe Treaty was made. Thoaein pos-
apuioa relain the poB«Bs»(in. Fiein this he has
concluded, that negroes, cakeaduring the war, bad
becDiae the propeity gf the oaplw*. or ralher^aK
emancipated. The words oltbe Treaty of Peace
•rft " nearoes and other property."
This DJaialv ihaws, in hia opinion, that, by ne-
i( those talfeo during the wa
gToes, »
they W( ... , .
vas chaoged. It could oolr be intended, i
e not American properly. The properiv
Dged. It could only be intended, tucD
negroes as were lakea afler rhe peace. I will ajh,
■X known In a Treaty, that a stipul
was made to give up property plundered after the
peace 1 k it not an established principle amaogsi
all ci?ili2ed nations, that plundered property shall
be given wpl Is it oecestaiy, or was it erer
lhou|[ht so, to make ^t a siipuuiiou by Treaty?
I beliere, if his construction is a just one, it i- ~
sew case, the piOTision wa* at least nugatory.
But if the principle be lays dowu is a just one,
bow does it happen that dehts due to British sub'
jecte, paid by the debtor* into the Treasury unUei
the sanction of a law. aad appropriated to the ust
of the State, are now recoverable by the British
creditor 1 An impoxtant caee of this hiod bas
been decided in the Federal Court, and judgment
aiven for the British creditor. Was the properly
less chained by the law of a soTerei^n and lade-
pendeni State, thaa by the proclamation of a Bri-
tish oommauder? This cannot be. The fact is,
however, that in two cases, found ia the same in-
strument, there are claims founded on the same
principle, the one, a British elaim, is established,
the other, a claim of tbe United Btate^ i* rejected.
This iovolTe* in it an absurdity . By those op-
posed modes of conitruction, an important claim
0f the citiuns of the United States is given up by
the Treaiy,ac]aim against them toagreatamoun'
it established.
The claio) agaioat us is admilted ; our claim ii
rejected, in cases where the same principle fair-
ly applies, and where, bv geollemen'a own show-
ing, toere is no dissimilarity wbicb can justify
such opposite const ruoiiona. There is another
provision of the Treaty, by which an important
inlerMt has been sacrificed. British subjects held
lands within the United States before the war,
many of those claims were barred ; the claimant
btiin4{ an alien could out recover j his being an
alien wa* the only bar. It was afleclual — such
has bean the decision of the Courts. But by the
Treaiy, being aliens shall not bar the clai" ''*
British subjects — thus, many of the ext
claims are restored, la some of the Statet
than half their terrilory will be revested in pro-
prietors. What could iiMaoa this grant ? What
equivalent do we receive for this sacriGee 1 Sic, 1
am constrained to think the Treaty a bad one, m
those instances I have meationed, mere ao thaa
in atiy others. And when 1 connect with the
Treaty itself the imperlaat CMtstitntioBal qaes-
lioB which has been diwu!ised,l caoitot vole for the
resolution before you.
Mr. KiTTea*-— Since the 4lh of July, 1776, the
Councils of America bav.e not been agitated by so
momentoas a queatioa, as that at present before
the Committee. At the period to which I allodc,
the questioD was, whether we should tamdy sub-
mit to an abject and disgraceful slarery, with all
its concomitant evils, or, by a Declaration of lo-
dep«adei»e, aa exertion otoi
with the advantages of foi«igB i
and manly cQort to obtain the bleesiogs of free-
dom— the solid rewards of well-«arnM liberty.
The present question is, whether we tbaJI siqiplf
the meaos of carrying into execution a Treaiy of
Commerce and Amitywiiha poweifttl natio«, en-
tered into by a Minister of the United States, and
solemnly ratified by the anAorities constituted by
the pectple for such purposes ; or, by refusing, pet-
haps unconstt tut tonally refusing those means, ha-
zard the peace, interrupt the prospeiity, and tat-
nisb the honor of the country f In a quastion of
sgch magnitude, prudence calls me to pause, duly
to reflect. My country's faith is pligtUed, a so-
lemn coBlract ia made ; it would therefore be un-
wise and impolitic, as it concerns the interest, and
dishoDorable, as it regards the character, <^ thia
nation, in (be infancy of its existence, to violate
so sale ion a contract.
Two causes hare contributed much to prtju-
' - - the Americau miad against the Treaty. IsL
part. 2dly. Strong reseatmenl a^ikst Britain.
for injuries received during a tedious and croel
war, aad those injuries renewed by a datencion of
our Western posts, exciting and aiding the savage
Indian tribes in tne oommissiou of bosuiiiies on
our frontiers, with strong iodication ol' a desin
to contract our bauadaries, And their lawlttsil«-
predations on our commerce. I will not add, ibat
there are amongst us some irreconcilable ettemie*
to this Government, who opposed its adt^tioi^
predicted its downlaU, and whose pride aitd poiiii-
cal oon-tequence are suq>eBded on the fulmioeiLt
of this prediction. For the hoaoi of human na-
ture, and for the character of my eottotr;, 1 hope
there are few to answer this desoriptioD; ii^ hoir-
ever, thare are any. the poet's execration ia to
them peculiarly applicable: " Cursed be the idab
who owes his greiiiaess to his country's ruin 1"
There are aume things in which the candid part
of those who hear me will not disagree. 1st. That
our £avoy was a wise and honest man ; he was a
tried patriot, skilled in diplomatic life, and ren-
dered to his country important services during; the
late war. The tale of his receiving British |roM
wa* made for children and fool8,4UHl need oaly
.dbyGoogle
HI8T08T OF CONGB£SS.
1136
Ar«iL,1796.]
ExtmiUm tf BritMh TVuly.
[H.orR.
to be lold, to be ditbelMTcd. 2dlf. He made the
beat bargain be could. I will not meatioD, io
proof of ibu, the ratificatioD of the coniraot, eight
moalbH aftef warda, by the Prb«ident, (Id whom
this country has ceriaioly an unbouDdeiJ coofi-
denceO with the adrice of two-lhirds of the Se-
oate ; out I bare proof pcnitiTe. The letter of
Mr. Pinekney, out Minister retidcat at Lrmdoa,
and eonrertant with erery port of the awxiatiou,
in alrong and decided teima adriKs Mr. Jay to
accept the contiact as ibe best that could be pro-
cored^ and Bs one that woold promote the interests
of this country. 3dly. if oegollationa had been
UQsoecessful ; if the Treaty, oa ibe terms offered,
had been rejected, war must have ensued. Our
(latioaal honor would have forbidden a lame tub-
mission noder so many insulu and injuries; such
tabmituoa would have invited new insulu, and
' our own nfety voald have made resistance and
retaliation necessary.
The Treaty naturally prcseDls itself under two
general hradt. 1st. Soon parts of tt an are per-
manentj 10 wit : the firsi ten articles. 2dly. Such
parts of it as aia temporary, lo continue for two
years after tbe expiration of the war in which
Great Britain is now enpged. Three great points
are embraced under the first arr«n^ment. A ear-
render of oar Western potts, compensatim for tbe
spoliations c«tmmLtled on our eommerce, and the
pavneni «f British debta. However lightly my
coIleaKue from the Western part of Pennsylvania
[Mr. Pindlet] »oke yesterday of the Weslero
potts, I consider tne acquisition as an important
treasore to ibis country. ItwiU not only inerease
the value of out Western lands, and open to us a
new souTceof commerce, bulit will telieve us from
tbe expense and horrors of an Indian war. Tfaoee
were the sentiments of tbe gimtlemBn himself on
tbit floor, two yeara'ago. The spoliation on our
commerce has genenuly been estimated at five
millionaofdollan. On a rejection of tbe Treaty.
1 with the gentlemen in the opfNnitios to point
out bow the American merchants are to be reim-
bursed for their lots. Nothing can be ezpeeied
from new negotiations. It would be a solemn
mockery of justice to the claim of those citizens.
Payment out of tbe Treasury has been talked of,
and a resolution to that eSect is now on yonr ta-
ble. This can never be done. It would be with-
out a precedent, and Congress has heretofore re-
fused the claim. And how can you discriminate
such claims from those risinr from savage depre-
dations on your frontier settler; 1 The protection
of the Oovernment wat, at least, at mnch due to
the peaceaUe farmer as the speetUBtingmerchautj
and if kiites have arisen for want of sncb protec-
tign, compensation is as Justly due in tbe one case
as in the other. But why are we lo Bnbject the
Government to this payment, or onr citixens to
this loss, when com peiiaa lion is offered by the na-
tion that has done tbe wrong? As to British
debts, the Comnuttee have bad various calcula-
tions of their amount.
I believe some of tbe estimate* hare been ex-
ceedingly exaggerated. If they an even half tbe
enormous sum that hak been stated on the other
side, we have not much diffienlty in aecounling
for the extraordinary opposition to the sdminis-
tration of ibis Government thai ha^ appeared in a
certain quarter of tbe Union. Whatever may be
the amount, the nation is bound by~tbe strongeet
ties of< justice and national honor to secure tbe
payment.
To tbe eth article it has been objected, that tbe
confiscated olaims of tbe ancient proprietors, trai-
tors and exiles, ate therefore revived. Were this
true, it would be a serious objeclioo to tbe Trea-
ty. Indeed, the genileman ttom Virginia, who
first made tnis objection, [Mr. Gileb,] did nut con-
tend for this construction, but asked tbe itse of in-
serting the article unless for this purpose 1 Tbe
article is not without its use. It speaks in the
present tense, of those " who now hold lands, that
, they shall continue to hold them according to the
tenure and nature of their respective rights there-
in:" and therefore caUBot efobrace those who
bold no lands, hut whose estates weie conflsoated
prior to Ibe Treaty of Peace in 1783. It gives no
new estate, enlarges or revives no old title, but
COD firms to British subjects their titles in the same
manner in which they were eonfinned by the 5tb
and 6th articles of the before-cnentioaed Treaty,
with this differemne, that tbey may descend to the
heirs of the present holder, notwithstanding tbe
alienage of such heirt. It has provided against
escheat on ifae death of tbe preeenl header. This
provision is reciprocal, and it was justand reaaoii-
able, considering the relative siiuation of this
conntry and Great Britain, that socb provision
should be made. And from the immeMe emi-
gration of people of fortune and family, iron
Great Britain, Scotland, and Irebnd, lo this conn-
try, on wh(.m descents may be thrown, this is
a favorable article to the ttnited Scaiea— it is
founded on justice and reciprocity.
Tbe second division of the Treaty is of tempo-
rary duration, and if it has evils, they cannot be of
long duration, nor of such magnitude as to Justify
the hazard of interrupting our present stale of
prosperity by a rejection. One novel ohjectitHi to
the Treaty, was ihe imp<>rtinent observations of
Lord Qrenville to Mr. Pmckney, which ted to an
apprebettsion that the British might interfere with
out internal Government ; but not a whinper is
made against a foreign Minister vrbo built and
fitted out priraleers, and enlisted men from one
end of the Continent to tbe other ; and when de-
sired by the Kiecutive to desisL appealed from
the PacatDENT to the people. If the real objec-
tion be, that it is a Treaty with Great Britain, it
is Uue, and therefore unanKweraUe. Indeed, a
great part (^ my colleague's reasoning [Mr. Piitn-
ixtJ went W thow^ that any connexion with Great
Britalnwai a political evil, as they would thereby
acquire an influenae in our Councils. Bnehargu-
menta mi^ht be objected to with as much reason,
and, indeed, with more force against a had Trea-
ty, than against a good one.
It has been made an objection to tbe Treaty,
that British vessels shall pay no higher or other
duties in our ports than tbe vesseUofother foreign
natioaa. 1st. This regulation is made reciprocal,
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGBESfi.
a.j
Exetaaim of BritMi Tnaty.
L,17W.
and our vmels |ny no ochrr or higher dutie* in
British poru than the veMsU of oihPT forei^D dh-
tioD*. 'id\j. This is a Maodinf; regulation Id ail
Comiuercial Treatieii. In oar Treaty with Francr,
the NetherUoils, Sweden, Pruuia, <&c., the nine
ifarng is covenanted, oolf in stronger terms; the
words are, "no higher or oilier dutjeii than ihoie
of Ibe ruosi futored nations." In our first Treaty
with France, vie guarantied to that nation all
their West India poMessions; wears now released
from thifl guarantee. In our late Treaty with
Spain, for which appropriations have beenvoted.
without a dixsenting roice, we have ^uaraniied
to ihem peace with several powerful tribes of lo-
dians. It may be said, that this guarantee is re-
ciprocal. It IS BO, without much reoiprncity. as
all those Indian tribes, or chiefly all, reside wit)) in
our boundary. It is (aid, that Oreat Britain, by
this article, has reserved tie right of ecfuatiiing
the tonnage of American resseU in Britmh portis
lo that of British vessels in American ports. Thiit
ri^hl rhe had prior to the Treaty, and will have,
ifthe Treaty la rejected. Two objections have
been made to the 19ih article. Ihi. That prori-
■ions are made contraband in cases not warranted
by the Law of Nations; and secondly, that the
list of concraband articles is extended beyond that
contained in any other Treaty. The first ub-
j<:ction is totally unfounded. The article declares
that proviaions and other articles, not ^nerally
contraband, becomioe so, " according to the exist-
iog Lawsaf Nations,'' shall not be confiscated, but
tbeowDerFofKuah articles shall be fully paid, *iih
a mercantile profit and demurrage. It would, there-
fore, be a Tiotation of tbia Treaty, and a good
cause of war, should Great Britain declare any
article contraband which ii not su by the Laws of
Nations, (hougb such declaration was attended
with an ofier of payment. This article has given
k privilege, but has restrained no right. U* the
fleetN and armies of France should besiege a Bri-
tish island, and an American merchantmen, in at-
tempting to aapply the besiegers with prOTlsions.
abould be captured by a British cruiser, it would
not be a cause of confiscation. Bo far from de-
claring provisions contraband, wbpn they are not
so. the article provides that Ihev shall 1)e paid fur
when tbey are clearly contraband. As to the
aecond objection, that the list of contraband
cles are extended beyond that contained in
other Treaty ills to be obserred, that war abridges
lb« rights of commerce, as respects neutral na-
lioar. It is therefore of importance to settle by
Treaty what shall be contraband. Naval sto
are the articles to which this objection appli
VattH, Onlum, Bgnktr^utelc, and all the mi
approved writera on the Law* of Nations, have
declared naval stores conitaband. la a Treaty
made between Ori.'at Britain and Denmark, as late
as the year 17H0, not only the same words are
otied r^>ecting naval stores, but horses and sol-
diers are added; and in a Treaty witb Sweden,
naval slore:i, money, horaeii, and provisions, are
made cootraband. In almost all our other Com-
merciaL Treaties, borsea are declared contraband,
in thia ihey art free. It ia obwrvaUe, that-Cju-
with re!
1777, in the form of their eommi^on to
commanders ot privateers, directed tbem to make
prize of alt provision ships. Indeed, this article
is pecalwrly favorable to us in a i>tale of n<-uiral-
ity. AmerieaD gooda goin": to places btockaded
by France or Holtand, are contraband ; not so, if
going Id places blockaded by Great Britain.
It bas been objected to the SUt article, that
American citizens are prohibited from entering
foreigB service against Qrettt Britain^ and (hat
commanders of privateers are punishable a* pi-
rates. 1st. It is to be observed, that the restric-
tion is confined to a time of war; during a state
;ace, the restriction doe* not operate. And
respect to the commanders of priroteers in-
terfering in the war, being made puniiibable as
pirates, the same article, in the same words, is id-
roduced in thai much favored Treaty with Spain,
fhis article is also reciprocal, aod we have at
least as much to fear from the naral skill and mi-
litary knowledge of Britinb subjects, employed
against this country, in case of war, an they
have frbm the skill aud knowledge of Ameri-
can citizens. This artii-lt appears to me lo con-
wise regulation. It tends to preserve the
peace of this country ; there is always some dan-
ger in playing with edged tools.
It has been said that the British may defeat t.ie
advantages promised in the BjsI India coihmerce;
having agents in the eounlry, ihey can buy goods
cheeper, and can sopply the United States on bet-
ter terms, Ifaaa the American merchanti. Taanik
my learned collengue from I'l-nnsylvania, [Mr.
SwinwiceJ is well intormed on all mereaaiile
subjects, he certainly has not been correci and
candid in this objection. Iliaa standing chartered
rt^nlation of the Eaal India Company, that their
goods must be landed in London ; there is, then,
a double voyage, with all the incidental expense,
and foreign duiiesandlonnBne,which will give the
American merchants a decided advantage. Bat,
again : Cungrevs may, by law, atl<^;etber prohibit
the imporlalioii of AjibIic goods, in any bnt Ame-
rican bottoniK, withoura violation of the Treaty.
1 consider the East India trade a sonrce of great
wealth, as we shall probably supply many of the
markets with Asiatic goods.
It has been objected that neutral vessels do not
make free goods. This is a principle of the Liw
of Nations, that Great Britain has never given op
to any nation, and perhaps never will, particulirlj
in time of war; tbeprinciple will remain the same
if the Treaty is rejected.
Objections have also been made to ibe insuffi-
oiancy of the sum in which commaoderB of pri-
vateer* are to give sureties, to wit: £1,500 and
.£3000 sterling.
This, I believe to be the U'ual sum. In oar Trea-
ty with Sweden do sum is mentioned ; and in our
Treaty with Holhind no security at all ii< given,
but. the Captain is to fcrrfeit his eommisbion for
mi>behaviar. I have thos cursorily noticed most
of the objections made to the Treaty, and off.-rrd
some of thone reasons which have induced tne la
believe it for the interest and ht>aor uf the eono-
try to Tote for the reasluiioa on your tnbttr.
.dbyGoogle
ll«l
HBCvmn OP coKamaiK
Arw^^7W.J
£«MutKM f/BritMi TrtOty.
^ Hi. Ho[.i.ahi> nwl, he would lobnut aorae coa-
•idoraltoQt to tbt CcmniiUM, t^U. Ugetbar wiUi
thow which ha<I b«ea gifen, would iafliienae lu»
vote opon U>e resoluUoa oo the tables a subject,
as bad been nid by «ll wbo ftdvookted ibe ieH>-
luiioDj of the Grst uopoTtaacs — an iuue od which
depended peace ot w». He Mid, b^ eoa»ider«d
the flueslioo of some iiapoiWace, pulicuLu-ly w
it rested to their CoDitiiauonal powets j bat the
CDDceptioDs of gentletEt^ ha4 exaggenied Uta
mulr of the piesent auestioB. It wu npthiog
looie o[ le« than, woald they or would they not
oow appropiiale tooaeyu to cany the Biitub Trett-
ty into eSecl i He Mid, he hw| erei felt a dispo-
sitio* 10 that purpose ; not because the raitb of
the nation, as had often been, said, was pled^ad i
not becaoB^ they were nnder moral oblWiioafi,
a* had been couteaded fo^^Dqiibei of wMch he
couiil admit ; biit because a respect was due to ihe
oeguiiator, to the Senate who advised, and to the
PsGainsNT who ratified it ; for, it was to be pnr-
BumetL until tbe contrary appeared, that they ex-
ercised their judgments foe the good of the nation.
But it was possible the toeaus they have adopled
may not produce the end intended ; they may uavs
been mii< taken.
When he first examined the instrument^ he was
in hopes ibal there was something estrinsie exisc-
iikg, which, when communicated to him, would do
away ibe exceptions on ihe face of ihe iastniment,
and ihereGu^ he was silent, and suspended his
judgment. It was for that purpose he bad voted
lor the papers relative to the oegouaiion to be laid
on the table, in hopes of obtaining farther inform-
ation, previous tohis being called upon to carry
it into effect. But, unfortunately for biro, no fur-
ther iafoinMtioQ was to h; obtained. The ustiful
papers, an innoceat and humble request, was not
([ranted. He wa« not possessed of any otbei: in-
ormaiiaa ihao could be drawn froni the inslru-
ment, from the writers on that subject, and the
arfuments that had been advanced by tha gentle-
men wbn had advocated the resolution i to the
wboleof which, he bad with candor attended, and
with regret iitfermed the Cummitiee, that nothing
had been adraacecl| that had convinced bim of the
reason, propriety, aace«sity, or fitness, of the stipu-
lations contained in the instrument.
Those Eentlemen, instead of reasoning, have
endeavored to slana- They have said thtu, if we
do not carry this Treaty into eSect, that ^ nhall
bo pliu^d in a war j that Britain u a proud and
haughty natign ;■ that they will lay tbeir hands
upon all our property, &<c This was an address
to our fears and not our reason, and were our fears
once on the wreck, there is no knowing the result,
or where we should land. But, in this instance.
tre would not be governed by panic or . dreaa
of the power of that baiwhty oation, as they had
been colled i but, as a Representative of a fVee
mni independent nation, be (elt himself perfectly at
liberty to exercise bis te(uon,in the most cool and
deliberate manner. Not apptebeitding any dan-
ger, the time has beeii, and now is, that ne are
perfectly secure in asserting our equal and recip-
rocal rights with that nation. We bare done it in a
4th CoK.— 37
stnM<rf iB&nevandinexparitaee.atB tsmem«efa>
more unfavoiMtle, taking tnb emIb ot the qaa>-
tioa into view, than the prMsnt And shall w«
now hesitate and tamely suQer them to dictate to
qs 7 And ar« we bound to accept the Trsty,
lest ihev should be offended and treat ns with eon-
tenapt. for not accepting, as it is said, a more fk-
vonble offer than tbey have given to other nar
tioos 1 Are we nof the sole judges ; hare we aoC
a right to determiiM foi oiuaelvei 1 And ss thia
is a mare naked itipuWioQ, lb«y can receire no
damage, iMr, on this early notice, can tbey
chaTg»with aeocptiun, or have any right to eon*
plain. One thing is certain,; so long as QreM
Britain find* it for her interest to be pacific, she
will adopt measures cakula led to preserve peace;
but, when intereat dictatea the conitary, net iar-
vention will not seek a pretext for a difiWent eon-
duct. The history of that nation gives abundaBt
proof of this.
Independent of the Treaty, it has been showi^
that their peculiar ciroumslancea hnve pcodDced
all the commercial advantages to the United
States, and more than is secured to us' by this in-
strument. The existing eausea will produce and
continue the effect, without sacrifice or eauivalent.
I cannot but observe, that all the gentlemen in
favor of the Treaty Imve requested our impartial
and candid attention — thus, presupposing that
ihey assume to themselves what they urge us to
possess. They would do well to examine what
part of their conduct, compared with ours, gives
them a preference.
A gei^tleman from ConiKcticDt, [Mr. Hill-
BooaaJ who went diffusiVely inui the subjeet,
said he would be impartial, and would take both
sides into view. His language being in the spirit
and tone of all the others, he would observe upon
what he had said. He set out by sayinK. that ihii-
Treaty opens to them a new worm ; that it will
give a spur to enterprise, and command all the
fur trade. Tba gentTemao from New York,|;Mr.
WiLLiAMa,] not behind him in calcuktion, sa}[^
the whole tradewillcenlreat New York; that it will
amazingly facilitate the progress of thai city ; that)<
at present, there is an aooual increase of popula-
tion from eight hundred to one thousand nouses;
and that, in a century, it will ba equal to London ;
and then, with seemmg surprise, a^s, shall we
)w arrest its progress by rejecting the Treaty 1
Those two gentlemen, in iheir impartial rhap-
sody, hare fancied thia Treaty has given tfaemthat
world in a string: that it contains in itself, and
seoarea to them all possible advantage ; and that
ihe rejection would be attended with every possl-
bleeril. Butaillhisremainslobeptoved. Could
iew it in this manner, be would be guilty of
injustice not to promote ii ; or should it realize
one-tenth of those advantages to Connecticut «r
New York, he would make a larne sacrifice in
' :ir favor. But the reasons produced to prove
£, or even make it probable, were foreign, and
I not go to convince, or at least bad no more
light upon hisjudgment than to prove that thia
Treaty could have a partial and temporary ope-
ration in fkvor of a few fur-traders; but failed to
.dbyGoogle
1131
fflSTOHY OP CONGRfiaS;
1133
a. OP R.]
Earecutum of BntUh TntOf,
lemoTe tke aolid objectioQi Lhai had been itattd ;
that ii cootained in itMlf ■tiputationi that in tbeir
opemion would contnveDe Eome of their inTalu-
aole pririleges; as he also woald attempt toehow
to the Committee, after he had made Mine further
obserralionson wnat had been said. He observed
lliere was a material difference in the Da lure of
the property calculated upon by the gentlemen
from Connecticni and New Tork, and the pro-
perty that he calculated. Tbml of those getitte-
men wnsau eitimatioaof adrantases to be gained
by extending their trade to the Indian country
and elsewhere ; that, in its nature, was nubjeet to
contingencies, and at mott was but 'a profit in ex-
pectancy. But property on which he calculated
wnsnatioDal anapersoaal rights realized, end per-
sonal prnperiy now in actual possession ; the rights
were to be ceded and the propertr to be put at
hazard, and probably both eveDtually sacrificed.
So that there was no similarity, no competition in
the cases.
For wUat purpose he was at a loss to know, but
ft geDtleman from Connecticut [Mr. HillhooseJ
had said that the United Stales were nnder no
obligations to France, aod that be was not bound
to respect them more than any other nation ; that
sinister views and national honor once engaged
them in our ioierest^ and that we should hare
been iodepeadent witnoat their assistance. Mr.
H. said he would not assert this was impossible,
but he would Tr.ntur* to affirm that their fidelity,
ptoweis, and co-operation, greatly facilitated our
independence, as would be demonstrated by at-
tending 10 one case onl of maoy. He alluded to
the case of Yorktowo, ajid the sorreoder of Corn-
wallis; to say Qoihing of the land forces, could
this have been done but for the blockade occasion-
ed by the French fleet 1 He hoped that no gen-
tleman would besitsle to admit that Ihev bad beeo
greailr useful to us, and that il would be iograti-
tnde not to acknowledge it. For his part he would
«ver consider this couDtry under peculiar obliga-
tions to that spirited and magnanimous nation,
mud to all others who like them fulfil their trust-
it is a tribnte due to fidelity. Charily forbids our
Baying that they acted then and nowirom sinister
motives: they assisted in the cause of our free-
dom ; they are now fighting alone in the cause of
mankind. But the same gentleman says he will
go into the merits of the Treaty, and begins by
saying thai the insertion of those words relative
to the negroes in the Treaty of Peace, in 1783,
madcnodifTerenceas to the construcliou or opera-
tion of that Treaty. If we are to judge from the
operation, he is certainly right, for they had hith-
erto had no effect. But to prove that they were
intended to have do operation, the gentleman read
extracts of correspondence which took place be-
tween the negotiators, antecedent to the Treaty,
which wns a reference to the Law of Nationsj a«
abridged by Vattel; in which it was said, that a
Treaty leaves all in slaluqua that is not exprei'<ly
stipulated for. This doclrineluros upon the gen-
tlemao, and proves the reverse of what he expect-
ed; for, if nothing had been said resliecting the
negroes, they would have remained with the Bri-
' baring G
M produo
'ords were
he says, the worjs were intended (o guaranty the
negroes that then were in possession of the Ame-
ricans, and Dol to restore those that were in pot-
session of the British, in America. Mr. H. read
the clause, and then asked the Committee what
was the plain sense of the words, or the construc-
tion that they most naturally bore ? Was it lo
prevent the British from taktoe off negroei that
then were in their possession/belooginK to the
Americans? or to prevent the British, suBsequent
to the Treaty, firom stealing or by violence taking
from the Americans property in their actual pos-
session T If this latter was the intent, the cfause-
was useless ; a conduct of that kind would hare
been an infraction of the Treaty and of the knows
rules of common honesty; a violation of the rights
of private property, and punishable at common
law. Nor would (he British oegotiaiM have ad-
mitted the section under that conception; he would
hare considered it an implication upon the com-
mon honesty of the officers and ciiizens of his
nation, and must have treated it with contempt
But the gentleman's Impartiality has woand him
up to believe this to be the true meaning, and to
justify it ; to be in love with this, and to regard
every other article in the present Treaty, how-
ever it may appear to others, truly advantageous
and admirttble. He does not find &ult wiui the
provision order, although by the pREfliDEirr it
was thought most exceptionable; nor does he,
with others that have spoken before him, dislike
that article where free ootloms do not make free
goods, but thinks it iu our lavor, because wr hare
DO fleet. He would reverse the case — that free
bottoms should make free f:^)ods, because we had
no fleet; that if we had a fleet, the provision
would be immaterial ; that if we had a fleet, we
could protect our commerce.
The same gentleman has said, that the Spaoish
Treaty was more exceptioDable than the British ;
but he voted for the appropriation to accommodate
bis brethren to the Southward, and hoped they
would now accommodate him. But the reasont
asalgoed against (he Spnbish Treaty were of the
mott curious kind. It was because in that Treaty
the United Stales and His Catholic Majesty are
joiDlly to guaranty against savage hostilities
This he conceires to be a most exceptionable
part Truly it carries in it something formidable,
but the complaint might beexpected to come from
(he nation, combing against her who might justly
say the combination was unfair. These are the
reasons adduced by gentlemen in hror of the
resolution.
But a gentleman from Hhode Island, [Mr.
BoDRME,] lately up, advanced something of a more
serious nature ; a doctrine that requires better in-
resiigalion; and although the ■polai was deter-
mined by a large majority on a former vote, yet
as the ground was eontnted, he would b^ leare
to observe upon what fell fVom him. That geo-
lleman had said, that if Ihe Treaty had not com-
mitted some of the essejtial interests of the United
States, or if it was not UDconaiitutional, that we
;dbvG00gle
1133
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
1134
Amu, 1796.]
Exteution fif RrtlM TVeaty.
[H.orB-
■re uod«r eTerjr moral obtigBtioD to caiiy it iato
, eflect, that the laith of the oatioD is pledgsd, tbat
our, national honor is at atake, &c. These auer-
tioas and propositiani are ore high oature, denujid
a BCiious coDsideraiioD, aad ought lo be maturely
iDvestigaced. H«, therefore would begin by a de-
nial of the whole. He would not conoede that the
Executive had power to pledge the faith of the
nation ; to alienate the persooaliies, labor, com-
merce, oi re^ estate of the nation, for tbe fulfil-
ment of any contract, unleai the nation bad pre-
riously specified the contract ; nor would he admit
onotber construction contended for, that the £x-
ecutire, by Treaty,cauld repeal any of our Federal
statutes. These two positions would place the
United States in a precarious situation indeod.
In the first instance it impeded an obligation upon
OS incompatible with the principles of legislation ;
and, in the second instance, tbe whole mass of out
Federa] statutes existed by the courtesy of the Ex-
ecutires and could be abrogated by him in a manner
above a.11 other the most odious, by calling to bis
aid a foreign Power, and by this association de-
stroy the whole of the Legislative acts of our
United Stites. If this be the Constitution, where
are the boasted advantage* derived from Ugiala'
lion, when the present Executive, or one in future,
less virtuous, could effectually defeat and swallow
upallour Legislativepowersi He said, he trusted
chat the beneiSts secured by the Constitution did
not depend upon so precarious a tenure ; but, on
the contrary, when statutes wpre formed by the
supreme LeguUlive power of the Union, tliat no
less a power than was essential to their formatioa
could suspend, alter, or repeal them. Upotl this
principle be, iherefore, would rely, aud from it
would not rec^e.
Upon this construction, it must follow that the
House of Represenlalives have it in their power to
keep in their existing form the whole mass of the
Federal sUtute*. This power beitag rightfully
and essentially in each branch of the Legislature,
it is iheir duty to exercise it on all occasions; for
them, no less than for private persons, are the two
rnlei, that they are to do whatever their judgment
dictates should be done, and to leave undone what-
ever their judgment warns them not to do. If,
therefore, the House of Representatives have it in
Iheir power to keep io their original existing form
all our Federal statutes, they must take an active
part in altering them, or they must decline to take
an active part m altering them, in which case they
will not be changed, according to the dictates of
their judgment, correipondiDg with sound policy.
Let us, for a moment, apply ihil doctrine lo the
C resent case. If this Treaty involves in it the la-
ir, personalties, commerce, or real estate of the
nation, for the fulfilment of the stipulations there-
in contained, or if it is contrasted with any of
our. existing statutes, or if any specific objects
constiiutionally given to the Legislative power,
are to be alienated, tbe Honse of Representatives
have to determine on the expediency of the mea-
sure.
Tbe State Conventions, in adopting our Con-
ititutions, and all nations, have considered the re-
venue to be the sinews of Qovemment, and have
placed the free, unincumbered, and absolute dis-
posal in the snpreme Legislative power, and our
Coikstituiion, in an explicit and peculiar manner,
has committed it to the immediate Representa-
tives of tbe people in Congreas assembled.
This trust being rightfuTly, explieitly, confiden-
tially, and coosutBtionally vested in the Repre-
sentatives of the people in b Legislative capacity,
hence, whatever a Senate may have done or re-
commended, in its -capacity as a council to the
Execntive, m forming a Treaty that embraces
anyof the specific objects of lef^islBlion, tbe y must
concur in the grant in a Legislative capacity, or
the grant will be invalid, they being a constituent
branch of tbe Legislature. Having advised the
contract, now acting in a Legislative capacity,
they are truly in a delicate situation ; and how-
ever wrong the advice ihey have given otay now
appear to them, they may not ieel at liberty to
recede.
However changes may have taken place in the
constituent members, and in external circum-
stances, that may relieve the embarrassment, by
deathj resignation, or otherwise, the two-thirds of
a majority may be reduced to a minority of 14 to
16. Policy and good conscience must govern
those now acting as legislators, not according to
the opinions of those m the council of the Bx-
ecuiive, or of those who are dead, resigned, or
now private menj but, according to the conviction
of those who exercise tbe duty, power, and re-
sponsibility of legislators, governed by iTisdom
This principle cannot inipDse on the present
Senators an obligation, in Legislative capacity,
to vote to execute a bad thing, because they, with
others in a council of advisement, once thought it
a good thing. In sueh cases, each member's con-
scientious opinion, maturely formed, must govern
The duty is the same in regard to the respective
membersofthe HoDse of Representatives, only
that their situation u less delicate, not being au-
thorized to relinquish any of their Legislative
power* ; such a dereliction would be a breach of
public truslj nor, having been consulted relative
to tbe grant, are at the most perfect liberty to ex-
ercise their discretion and judgment in relation lo
the fitness or unfitness of the stipulation or grant
that is about to be made. And upon this coo-
str-Jction ii the excellence of the provision ; for il
relieves the Senators from the embarrassment of
being alt(>retber responsible for the consequence*
resulting ftom a bad stipulation or grant) each
having a discretionary checking and correspond-
ig power. Neither can retort on aceuuiit of the
jtressefi that may be incident to the grant or
stinulation.
The contrary construelion would not only im-
pose an obligation upon the free agency of the
most numerous and more immediate Represenla-
'cs, but it would alsn lay a ground of complaint
^ainst the PaEsinsHT and Senate^ in which they
must hear all the blame resultiag from those mis-
carriage*. This would soon put an end lo good
.dbyGoogle
1135
M-(-
mg-yo^y py 9pygsf=jyf,
mt
H.ofR.]
ExtaMon ef BriliA TVuty,
fA^Mt^r
nnderataniKDg and harmon j with the two bnueh-
«• <J QovcrfitMnt. Tbe coniapon would eatcb
the cilizeiiii{ thu immediaw RepKBeotatim of
tfie people, v«i7 jmtly, to azonenle tbeniBelTM,
would fix all tbeeTJlsiriaiog fwm those ttipala-
tifMBj upon tha BsMotive, with man)' more ihai
had hltfe relaiioa bo them ; the conieqaence would
h« oqirerMl declamation and diMOntent, aod a
fioal nvDt of confidence, reiultio^ ia a dimolulion
of QovemmeDt. Tbe Coattitutioti has made the
Leiciclature the only and sde organ to alienate
the public reTCDue. The same principle is inci-
dent to the Legislative power of all OoTernments,
all forei^ Puners are bouiid to admit (his, Great
Britain, ui a pecnltat manner, is boond to respect
this deposite of power, became the same thing ez-
iits in her system.
The Eieeutire conductor of the United States
has only an adfiiory iutj upon the subject of
alieiiBtioDs of the poblic revenue, or, Indeed. —
any other subject of LcgisktiTc opeTHtion. „
he doea not perform this advisory duty, the act of
the Legialature is valid. If he doea perform it,
the only effect it can have is to increase the quo-
rum which is requisite ; two-thirds of the two
Houses grant the money — that it to say, the Le-
gislature does this or any other act of legislation
bjr the designated quorum, without the cooiteni
of ibe Cieentive, and eren against his jndgmeni
and advice.
Nor does any evil result from this doctrine, ai
applied to the present case^ for, if good reasnns
have operated to induce the Executive to maki
the stipulation, the same reasons, with the incoR
veniency of not completing it, will be more likely
to induce the LegiFlainie to make the gram either
in America or in England.
The lanooage of the Constitntion, in regard to
gran ling money, ia explicit, comprehensive, and
unqualified ; so it is concerning war ; ao it is con-
cernin|[ commerce. It is not silent so as to justi-
fy an idea that the Executive may grant th(
money, make the war.or rcffulate the trade. The
CouGtitution is clear and full on this point, giving
the power over them to a compound body, of
which the PREflinEHT is no ^rt; to which he
atandsiniherelationof an adviser to a body which
is the chiel organ of all free Oovemments — tbe
Legislature.
: The nation, however, by this organ, can eflect-
nally give the money, make the war. or regulate
the commerce. It is-« peculiar felicity in thit
delicate and interesting debate, concerning which
all ej^presa a desire ta pruerve the honor and faap-
pine»s of the country, that in all respects involv-
ed in it, Great Britain and America are similarly
ctrcumstaDced. Under this view, what pretext
can Great Britain have to be dis!«tisfied with us,
if we reject this Treaty? It mast be acknow-
ledged by her. ihsi it was contemplated for mutu-
al advantage ; and if, on a revision, the reciproci-
ty is doubted, and this fairly mada known ante-
cedent to an exchange of property, will not the
good sense and honor of that nation commend us
for our attachment to our national interest? Is
it not the line of conduct that she has invariably
puriued, with respect to her own security? Most
r&y is the alarm so loadly sotmded by all
the advocates of tbe reeolation, and friends of the
Treaty 1 If she means id be friVndly, the trade
will go on ; sbe will repair the damages we have
unjustly Btistained ; this will be done, if it corres-
ponds with her interest, and fdrther expIanatioDi
and negotiations will be admitted. If she ii> div
posedMbe hostile, Iwonld resent her disposition,
bat I never could find a greater aptitude to meet
her on that ground than the present. Let bei dis-
position be what it may, it shall not influence my
judgment on the present occasion: but I shall
conduct mvself in that manner most likely to per-
petnate inaependence.
But with respect to the Treaty, I shall not Irea-
ass upon the Committee by fjoiog into detail, as
) many eentlemen had examineaits exceptions;
ut would wish to be indulged in observing on
ne part that had been but .•tightly touched on by
a w«rihy member from Virginia, [Mr. GilebJ
the operatioti of which might be attended with
melancholy effects, particularly upon the
IS and State he had ihe honor to represent
than alt the other exceptionable clauses contained
the instrument. He meant the 9th article i
and that it might be the better understood, he
would read it, as he conceived this a matter of
the greatest consequence; and. although it had
been previously read, he hoped the Committee
would indulge him with bringing that clause once
more immediately into their view. Mr. H. read
the 9lh article, which is a provision enabling
aliens to hold lands in this country. He said this
K'ovision was contrary to the common Law of
Btions, and ever thought dangerous and impoli-
tic. Great Britain, in particular, never admitted
the principle. It was tnere too well understood,
by common consent, that it was never thonght
necessary to prohibit it by staltite; aud for what
pnrpase shall the United States admit Ihe princi-
ple 1 Is it because she should be less on her guard
than other nations? Is it because her extent of
country makesher more secure? Or iait because the
realized property and the privileges attached in a
RepuUic, are less worth preserving then in a Mon-
archy? So much on the general objection ; but
he bad a peculiar and serious objection to the
clause, as it might operate very oppressirely upon
the citizens of the Slate of North Carolina. Lord
Grenville, previous to the Revolution, was legal-
ly possessed of a deed and absolute right in fee
simple, held as a subject under the Crown of Great
Britain, to a tract of land within the then Pro-
vince of North Carolina, beginning at the sea
shore, north latitude thirty-siideoreeson the Vir-
ginia tine, extending south one degree, and west
to the lanhest extent of tbe limits of the charter-
ed rights of that Province, which was bounded by
the Missisaippi.
That the Bart Grenville had opened an office
for the s^le of said land, and had parcelled it out
in small tracts to tbe citizens, and had conveyed
to ihem by deed of conveyance, reserving a cer-
tain rent with a clause of entry in failure of pay.
;dbvGoogle
iish
HISTORY OP CoNGRiSS.
:., 1796.]
Execution f^ Briliah Trtatf.
(H.«
Tbew were (be legulations until t|ie d«atk of the
Barl, whicb mighi have been eieht. yesra preri-
OBS to the Reroiation ; at which time the office
neeeuaritf was clowd, until certaia regulatioDs
irere taiade relative to the heir, who was said to
be a lanattc. HoweTer,l]o second office was cre-
ated; the Revolutioa succeeded, and probably
|»«veDled any further adjuEtmeat.
After the Slate bad aMumed the sovereignty,
auDdry proclamatioDs were issued Dotifyine the
owners of real property to come into ine Slate
•nd to join in the genera! defence, and common
catue, or they should be considered as aliens.
Sundry laws of eonfisealion were made, DODeof
-which could affeot thia title. The legal heir be-
ing incapable and absent, could not come within
the mtaniag^ of any of the eonfiscation laws. But
in 1777 or 1778 the Stale of North Carolina eon-
fliderioftthat.Dpontheeeneral principle that aliens
vere incapable of holding lands, and that the ori-
ginal owner of that estate had become so by bis
atwence, a conduct that was considered a derelic-
tion of his title, opened an office tDdtscriminately
fiwihe sale of all tbe unappropriated lands with-
in the respective coanties of tbe Stale, and since
bare extended their offices in that 'direction to the
Uiasi«Mi>pi. This is a short statement of the pro-
gtett made to realize all that property which, bv
fiOBqnest, so far as related to Earl Qrenville's ti-
de, tbey bad, by the Law of Nations, Justly and
meritorionsly acquired ; and dow, without any
iMtfoaibown.for the instrument is exceptionable,
exelnsive of inis clause, shall this realized and va-
loafale property be put at hazard T He did not posi-
tiretysay that this section wonid absolutely revive
this title, hat it appears dubiously constrticied, and
iiroiD a refereoee to the, late deterrainalions in the
Federal Conrts, it will be discovered, that tbe
decisions are in favor of Treaties and ancient
etaima.
H« did not mean to say this was Improper or
tmjusi, or to throw an oblique censure on the Jo-
dieiuT ; but ibis belj)|; true, we tHight ts guard
aninst doublfal coDstruclion ; more etpecisUy
where nothing is gained^aodsomuctrisat haxanl.
The value ofihal property could not be reimburs-
ed by the ordtjutry revenues of the United States
for nfly years to come. This being the, case, it
is beyond the reach of restitution ; too inuch
eare cannot be taken to ward off the evU. [f
gentlemen would only consider t^ie force of the
words of tbe section — they are duhions in their
nature, and made capable of attaching to them
that constrnetion, perha^ formed so in order
niake them go down. Had they been explicit
tbat point, tnev eoald not have procured admis-
sion ; but. &s tkey are now artfuUy clothed, may
produce tne efiect intended. And if this be pos-
aible, be conceived he would be unworthy of the
tiigb coofldence reposed in him, if he did not.
witb jealous and watcbfol ey^ guard the realizeo
Etoperty of his fellow-citizens. Oentlemea in
tvor of the resolution, uniformly call upon —
^andid impartiatity, reqnestiiig us to divnt i_
pelves of DT^udice, The .many nlntaiiooa on
that pout, ne considered u an iraplieaUou on thoce
who were opposed to tbe resoluiica. What can
authorize gentlemen to ascribe to themselvei
more candor, Impartiality, order, love of Consli-
ti:tion or country, than we who think differenllj 1
He believed a scrutiny into their conduct wmild
evince that their conception was nnanthorized.
He, therefore, thought those implications impro-
per, and he could not hut observe that, allfa»ugh
we had taken exoeptions, wjiich wene polatedly
expressed by a gentleman from Virginia, last up^
fMr. MooreJ that, immediate^ after, • memlm
from Pennsylvania [Mr. KtTTfflA] could not for-
bear. But that gentleman made use of these
words to the considering part of this Cammiltee.
What is the implicatton taat there is a part of this
Committee not eniitied by him to be thpoght
candid 1 He did not think, when be saw that gen-
tleman rise, that he coaM have been guilty of '
such indiscretion ; but so it is, and uniformly hat
been ; but, in future, he hoped this wouM be
avoided. That each member would couidei the
others his brethren, equally candid, equally in-
tending to support the Coastitution, all atoiing at
the sane thing— the independence and happinen
ol the country. This he would my for hinaaelf;
and charity forbade him to tliink otherwise of
That whatever might be tlie result of his Totc
1 this question, or on any other, he. had no other
abject in view than to promote the banpinesaof hia
country, in which he would have only a eonudott
benefit with the reat of his fellow-citiceaflv It
would be a lasting consolation, tbat cooli aot be
taken frooi him, that be had luea much pains le
gain information on this subject and tbat be bad^
— (ruth and candor, discharsed his trust and duty.
Mr. FiNDLEv said he had been misunderstood,
and explained what he bad before asserted*
Mr. SvANwiCK objected that his collea^e f Mr.
Kittesa] had charged bira with a want of oaa-
' r. He was liable to miatake, he said, eqinlly^
ih any other man ; but he trusted b<i slioold not
charged with knowingly misstating aitytbiBg
with tespect to the Saal India trade; ae had ra*
served to himself a future opportnniiy of spcsk*
ing; on that subject, which, bowever,:the length of
debate seemed likely to present. He bad said
tbat the American vessels were pennitied to trade
to the East Indies as alt other nations were, but
that they were obliged to land their goods in the
United States, whilst the Danes, Swedes, ^oj,
could go there oAd carry the goods which thea
purchased from thence to any part of tbe woi^
except to the British dominions ; and tbat wa; tha
situation of Anierica antetedeoit to the present
Xteatv. A ship of bis, some lime ago, esraed *
Sood ueigbt from Bengal to Oslead, aad anot^
e knew had lately made one to Hambnrg; ha^
by the Treatv before the House, whatever advai^
tagea might be made by going ta a foreign pott
their vesseU were deprivM of, and naust re«anid^
reel to the ports of the United SUtn. These, hM
said, were stipulations which .no ot^ uatiikB las
under ; apd tbfxi^ pethapa no nation bad fecial
leave stipulated bjTtaity tt» go tkete, yatthay
all nevertheless did go, and never met with taj
.dbyGoogle
1139
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
1140
H. OP R.]
Exeeutum t^ BrUi^ Treaty.
f ApRI^ 1796.
opposition. It was a coartesy which nn; oatioD
might enjoT who took out h^rd dotlart with which
to ^ake their porchasn. Indeed, Mr. Dandas
lately Mid io the British House of Commoas "that
he had do objection that all nations should be ad-
iait[^ to trade to the East Indies." la some ob-
serTatiOQs made by him od the 15th of April,
179^, to the East India Compaay, I find ibis re-
*>It iM not diapnted that foreign natiani are entitled
to cany on trade with onr Indian po«earion». These
countries never hsTs been ncr cut ever be held on the
fooling ol Cotonisl poMSiaioDs. And provided foreign
nations trade with our Indian iDhiects upon their own
espilsl, which they must do, if sutncient latitude is giv-
en to bring home their brtunes through the mediom of
legitimate tiade. It is certainly a great adTantsga, and
not a loss to the indnstiy and poputatioD of our Indian
terriloiies that fbreigneis should exercise that trade."
But it was a peculiar restriction on us alone to
be obliged tu land what we purchased in the East
Indies within the United States. He could not
be certain, therefore, whether the liberty which
was proposed to be granted to them by the Treaty
woDld piore ■ real adrantaee or not. For during
the war, at aoy rate, the eoariesy would remain,
mod he saw little reason to apprehend that with-
out any Treaty it would have been ever taken
He would remark, that Great Britain had re-
■erTed to herself tbe right of conntervailing the
difference of duties in East India goods, in British
or American ressels, in her European ports.
Oreat Britain imagined that it will be tbe in-
terest of our merchants, in ordinary times, to pur-
chase East India goods in London, because they
ean have credit upon those soods from thence ;
for tbooffh credit may not be gireu at the East
India aalea, merchants of whom they purchase
other goods will probably sell them East India
^oods, m asMrtmeots, upon the same credit which
IS unially allowed upon other goods. When the
ditference betwixt eishteea months' credit and
■ending out hard dollars to the East Indies was
considered, he believed the British market would
be found OS favorable as tbe Bast Indian. Novr,
if joods can be got equally as cheap from Great
Britain, then, he thought he saw the oiotiTes for
eqaaliiine tbe duties in Earope, tm it would ena-
ble British ships to bring these goods from thence
to American ports upon terms equal with the
American vesteU, giTlne the East India Company
an opportunity, if tbey cHoose it, to supply our mar-
kets tbemselres direct by this means. At pre-
aeat, ten per cent, difference was paid upon goods
imported from Oreat Britain in American orBrit-
isb ressels. It was said Britain had the jwwer
before of equalizing duties ; but by stipulaitng on
OUT part not to increase duties on our nde,we nad
girea this power its perfect operation beyond the
- power of interference further on our jiart. He
wa* not, for all these reasons, able to view this
article in that adrantageous light in which it had
■truck other gentlemen.
The Committee nowtoae, had leave to nt again,
and the Hooae adjovraed.
Frioat, April 22.
DEBT DUB BANK UNITED BTATE8.
Mr. W. Smith informed tbe House ibat the
cammillee appointed to wait upon the Director*
of the Bank of the United States, to inquire whe-
ther it would be coDreoient for tbem to continue
the money which they had advanced to Govern-
ment in anticipations of the revenue, on loao, as
usual, had directed him to move that the Com-
mittee of the Whole might hn discharged from a
farther consideration of the bill before it, provid-
ing in part for the payment of the debt due to the
Bonk of tbe United Stales, in order that it might
he recommitted to the Committee of Way* and
Means, to underKO some alterations, in conse-
quence of the result of their inquiries. The Com'
mittee of the Wbole was discharged, and the bill
recommitted.
Mr. GoonnoE, from tbe Committee cd Com-
merce and Manufactures, reported a bill for allow-
ing compensation to officers in tbe Atmj for
horses killed in. battle; also, a bill for providing
relief to distillers in certain eases, which were
twice read, and committed to a Committee of ike
Whole 00 Monday.
Tbe bill providing appropriations for defraying
the expenses of carrvjog into effect tbe Treaty
lately concluded wiin Uie Dey and Regeocy of
Algiers, and the bill for making provision for tbe
Revenue Cutlery were read a third time and pass-
ed. The blank in the former bill for tbe rearly
allowance to be paid to Algien, was filled up with
21,000 dollars.
Ordtred, That tbe committee to whom was
referred, on the eighth ultimo, the resoiuli(» rela-
tive to the coniracl entered into between the Go-
vernment of the United Stales and John Cleves
Symines, be discharged from the consideiaPon
thereof; and that the said resolution be referred
to the Attorney General, with instructions to ex-
amine the same, and report his opinioDtheTBapoik
to the House.
EXECUTION OP BHITI0H TBBATT.
After the presentation of several petitions oa
this snbjeet, the House resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the Whole on the state of the Union,
when the resolution for carrying into effect tbe
British Treaty being under consideration —
Mr. CoiT said, that the importance of the reso-
luiion before the Committee would preclude all
necessity of analogy for any members asking tbrir
attention to his observations. He should oiuysdd
to it, that he should endeavor not to repeat what
had been already said.
He observed, thai the discussion of the merits
of the Treaty came before the Committee under
peculiar disadvantages, for. besides the prejudices
againsi it that might be supposed to hare been
CMised by extraneous circumstances, the agitation
of tbe important Constitutional question relative
lo the right of tbe Legislature to concur in giving
validity to this Treaty, which was claimeato b«
valid and complete withoal that concurrence, and
the refusal of a call for papers had very naturally
a tendency 10 give a bias to tbe vniads of some
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHT OP CONGRESS.
BxeaOioK of Brituk TVeofy.
geatlempn agminit the Treaty ; for him«elf, he
fully MtinGed the Legisli ' ' "
with the basil
Treaties. Wheo the resolution calling for papers
ma before the House, he had opposed it, because
lie sappOMd the papers could Wve do effect oa
sack deltberatioDS relative to the Treaty aa would
«ome before the House; still, after the call had
been made, he hoped that the PRebideht would
have tent the papers. This he would acknow-
ledge, although coDicious that, in eipresiing the
aeniimeat, he should not have the approbation or
concurreace of moat of (he geatlemen who voted
with him oo that occasion. He hoped the Paaai-
DENT would hare sent the papers, beeause be be-
lieved that the principal part of tne objectioos to
the Treaty were founded in prejudice, and he be-
lieved those papers wuuld have had a more pow-
erful operation ia remoriog the prejudices which
exbted a^iosi it than any arguments which could
be nsed. His hopes that the President would
send the papers yere iocreased by a persoasian
that [hose who wished the Treaty to he defeated
at alt eoenlt, although they had concurred
vote calliog for (he papers, wished that the ]
DENT would refuse them j still, he observed, that
bia consciousness of the pKESiDSNT'e better in-
formatiou on the subject, not to speak of his su-
perrot discerameBt, made him perfect! v acquiesce
la the refusal, and perfectly free to declare that
(m his opinion) the FBEaioBNT, in his refusal, had
done wlMt was right and for the best. Thesei
cumstancea, ha said, it would be agreed bf every
honest and bf every candid mind, (it would illy
become him to say there were aby others but such
ia the House,) uozht to have no effect in discuss-
ing the merits at the Treaty. Still, the human
mind was liable to impressioni whioh could not
always be justified — sometimes hardly accounted
for.
Mr. C. said he should attempt to run through
the obiectioBs which bad been made to the Tr«a-
tjTi and consider its merits independently of the
peculiar eiroumstaaces under which it was r —
pretantfid to the Committee, and then give
own view of it as relative to those peculiar ...■-
cumstaucea.
The objects of the negotiation, he said, very na-
turaLy were divided into three parts— the inex-
eentioD of the Treaty of 17B3; mutual complaints
between the United States and Great Britain re-
lative to traiisactions^in dependent of the Treaty ;
«»d arrangerocDts for the intercourse between the
two nations, commercial and political, fint as
eeallemen bad made their objeciioas generally in
tne Older iawhich the several articles of the Trea-
ty had been arranged, he should follow the same
onler in bis obaervations in answer to them-
The first objection which had been made was,
tbat ao oompenulioa had been stipulated to the
United States for the Bnaposed Breach of the
Treatyofl7B3,inearryingofftheaf'groes, Thisob-
jaction, ha had supposed, was so completely anawer-
•d by hi* coUcagu, (Mr. Hillboobb,] who had
bMD up tbe dav before, Ibat he should not have
«d4«d tw tbat itttd.bBt that he bad aiac« found
gentlemen still insisting on that objection. He
. Constitu- was particularly surprised to hear the gentleman
of making [ from PennKylvania [Mr. FindlbyJ stating that he
conceived the negro article to have been put ii
the Treaty eipresslj as a compensation or set-off
the engagement to pay the British debts. This
pretensioQ, he thought, had been fully refuted bjr
the extract from Mr. Adams's jouroal, quoted by
Mr. Jefferson in his correspondence with Mr.
Hamilton, and which had been read by his cot-
lea^e. From that extract, it appeared that a
claim for negroes and other property which had
been jdnndered, carried off, and destroyed by the-
, by our Commissioners, as a set-
off against a claim made by the British Comrais-
sioners for restoration of confiscated estates; and
that the oae of those claims was abandoned with
the other. Had the gentleman from Peonsyiva-
nia taken the pains to examine the journal of Mr.
Adams, which might be seen by any member of
the Committee at the office of the Secretary of
Slate, he would have found how the article canw
to be inserted.
Before the tigning of iht Treaiia with which
the extract made by Air. Jefferson is closed, i tan da
in the original the history of this article in these
words:
" Mi. Laoraui said, thera ought to ba a ctipalatkni
that ths British troopa should carry off no nagroM or
other property, we sU sgresd. Hi. Oswsjd connoted,
and tneti the Treatia uxre tigtttd," ic. >
This^ Mr. Coit said, was all the mention he
could nod respecting this article, except in a sub-
sequent part of the same letter, in which Mr.
Adams observes:
" I was Tory happy that Mr. L. came in, althoQf(fa it
was the iMt day of the toabnaeet, and wish he could
have been WKmer. Hii ajqnahenaran, notwitlulanding
hi* deplorable afflielian ander the raeeni loss of so ez>
cellent a sod, is as quick, his jodgmemt •■ sonnd, and
his heart s* firm as ever. He lud mn oppoitanity of
eitmintng the whole, and judging and approTin; ; and
the article which he caused to be inseited at Uie Teiy
lut. that no property ihould be caniedo^wbitdi would
t probaray, in the multiplicity and hun; of afiairs,
.... worth a longer journey, if tl '
is added, whidi
h»ve escaped us, w _ ^
had bwn ill, but bia name end weight is
is of much greater consequence."
From these extracts, it appeared, the article waa
It a subject of negotiation, but inserted at the -
close of lue transaction, without discussion, as a
matter of covrse, and which Mr. Adams suppraea
might, iu the multiplicity and hurry of afiairi^
have been omitted, If Mr. Laurens bad not sag-
Mr. C. said, he woold candidly acknowledg*
that it was very extraordinary to him, that the
construction which had been'senerBlly put on the
article in America, should have ao universally
prevailed, if it was not the true one, tbat Con-
sress should have adopted it; that such should
have been the idea of the Commissioners ap-
pointed to superintend the embarkation at. New
York, in the year 1783. Stilt more extraoTdinarr
wash to him, to find Mr. Jay himself, when Se>
.d by Go Ogle
lUS
HISTOBT OF CONOREBB.
ffR.J
Emtxtim <^ Sr&ith TVtcOy.
[A»1L,17W.
entaij fn Foceign Afikin, in tbe yeu 1786, in a
report he tLen made to Congress oo ibe subject,
coDsldetii^ the carfring aff of thote aegtoea as
a. riotatioD of (be Treaty, and sayiDg further, that
iie undenlood from Mr. Adams, then at the Court
of LoudoD, [bat tbe British MiniKter had no ob-
iectioDB to mafaing compenralion for them. Scill
be believed, lie true coMtructioo of the article
was, that it was desigoed only to prevent plunder
iy (he British troopt, and oarrying off of Ameri-
can properly, according to the ortinary agree-
ments in Treaties, wUien stipulate for (be giving
up of conquered countries. True, it might be
asked, why say negroes or other properly 1 The
expres:don, he agreed, was not correct, unless a
doubt might have been entertained whether ne-
eoes were property ; but the word negroes must
qualified by other property, -with which it is
connected, and could operate onlj' as it it had
said, horses or other property, whtcli no person
would contend amoaoted to a stipulation not to
carry off what bad once been, but by tbe laws of
war and nations, before tbe close of tbe war. had
ceaaed to be property of the American inhabi-
tants. Four gentlemen from Vir^nia had in-
,'sisted on ibis objection, and not one of them had
dei^ed to remark on the construction of tbe arti-
cle Itself. They had all relied upon the common
mdintandiDg of ft. That this understBtiding
cobM not (ihan{e (he sense of the article, if it was
sot doubtful, coold not be denied. Their leaving
the article and resorting to the common uoder-
ataoding of it, he conceived to be a tacit acknow-
ledgment of the gCBtlemen, that the instrument
itaelf would not bear the oonstraction they wished
to give it.
Whether the Be^litlor had nrged thia con-
atructioo of tbe arliole, and fbusd he eonld aot
obtain ita tdmisaiMi, or even an arbitntion upon
it, ha did notkaaw; fnMn his opinion of the good
veose and andnBtanding of Mr, Jay, however, he
was for himtelf aadsfled that, wnaierer might
have been hii former opinions, on Bttendiog to
tbe subject, he had fdnsd what had been called
tiM American construction was not the just one,
tad had therefore abandoned it.
Mr. C. satd, he was aware that the construc-
ttoti he tontended for had been called the Britii-h
construction, and CamiUia'g construction; that
ke had hims^ however, adopted more than two
ycftrs agQj the first time he had paid any attention
•o the artntle, upon no other impulse or authority
Ikas bb own Jndgment, on the perusal of it and
wen before be had evel heard or any other eon-
atmetion of it tbftn (bat he contended against, he
was aware that there was a kind of patriotism
vbich claimed everything for one^ oonotry,
wbetlker cwisisiiBntly with truth, jnaticc, and can-
OM or not ) for himself, be had no pretenMons to
anch patriotism. He believed Mr. Jtj had none,
lund it he waa convinced that the American eoit-
■truction of this article waaonfoonded, he thonght
U for hi* honor, and the hootx of thia country,
(W be had abandoned it.
, Tha seemid article of the Treaty vra* objaet«d
U, bacauK of the stipiilationa Mutainad in it in
Uvor of the British subjects iahafailmg the porta.
Mr. G. begged gentlemeii would Male what th«T
would conceive it for the hoat>r and interest of
the United Sutes to do with those people, if tbe
;y had said nothing about them ; h« tboogbt
it could not be contended bv any penon that their
condition was Varied by this Treaty from what it
would have been on a surrender of the post*, on
the lerais of the Treaty of 1783, and under the
present laws of the United States. Of what,
(hen, did gentlemen com|4ain 1 That they were
rehtrained from banishing them or stripping them
(rf (heir property by future lawsl He had too
good an opinion oT the generosity and magna-
nimity of uie sentlemen who objected to the ar-
ticle, to think tliey wished for this, and believed
that (hey objected to the aHiele only from a cnr-
Bory view of it, end because they had not attended
to tbe mighty liide difierenee made in the con-
dition of those people by the tUpolalioiiB of the
Treaty. They Were to retain property ; ao Aef
might do without the Treaty^ they might re-
main British subjects, Or become citizens of the
United States; so they might witbont the Trea-
ty: their property ia (o descend to (heir heirs.
Here only is a variance from eiistiag Uw^ if
such be (he ttnrettsonsble law of alienaf^ in (■■*
country, (ha( when a mau hasestly ownmg land
'■ - this eonntry, if he is a fiweigoer, he can-
[ismi( it to his heirs. He thought, how-
ever, no person would object to this.
These were his conceptions of (he subject, and
until he found geotlemcB statiiw some other dif-
ference between the cooditioo at these pet^e on
the terms of the Treaty of 178S and the present
Treaty, he muet think their otqeetlona to tbe sti-
pulations in (his article wholly nnfonnded.
The delivery of the pcpi* had been ewmected
with tbe third article, which Tegniaie (he fern*
of intercourse be(ween (he Uni(ed Slates and
(he British Colonies adiMi\iDg. He confessed he
had bo particular knowledge of the country, and
could judge of (he meri(s «f (he article only on
general principles, but ot thoae principle* the
reguiatioQs re^teeling that iaienwuise appeared
to him perfectly fair, jmt, and reciprocal, and the
least that could be made for mutual benefit. No
gentleiuan had undertaken to point out on what
[irinciplcs they would have the interooorse rcgn-
Bted. Havini^ a bordering eointry of between
twenty and thirty degrees of latitude in extent,
he asked, if it were Mtter tii have a jealous tys'
lem of mutual restriction preserred tnroogh (oat
extent, or to let people conn and go from oDu
country to the other As ibeV pleated T It it sdpB-
laled tnat (he iD(ercoune shall be fne, (he inland
ivavigation common (o both parties, and that oU
goods not prohibited to be imported ahsohitely
into either country, may be imported frou (he
other. On the Mine terms as (hey are imported
direcil)^ from (he Atlnniic. It appeared lo him
idle (o inquire, which oountry woitld derive OMSt
advantage from the iaceredurte; by the aceonnt
giren <g tbe Canada iradt by two geDttamcn
from New Yoek, ittm had spoken on the rabject,
[Mr. WuAiiJH and Mr. Cosraa] mod who ap-
.dbyGoogle
I llU
HJ9W«* m WONOHESS.
hii
A»iL,TT9d.]
Eitiadion of dritUh TVeoIjf,
[H.opA-
peared to be extremely Well acqaainted wilb it,
u well as from the great numbers of people, the
enlerpnstt, and their iaduslTy and capital, wciicb
the Uuiled Stales posiened, he believed they
would derive the sreateat Advantage ; but whether
they or the Britisb were to derive the greatest, hr
> both caontriei. It should be remarked, that for a
• neat part of the eiteni between the United
• Slates and the Britiih Colonien, the boundary
> line was in the middle of navigable waters. If a
I jealous regard was to be had to this boundary, it
I must be a source of perpetual eontroversv he~
I tween the Dations. Now, thai navigation being
i ieclared free nbd commou to each to take the
' benefit of the whole extent of it, and all ground
for jealousy and contention in its use wu r-
r moved.
I The Mississipp! article has been objected
I bat it only rec<%nises the principle ettabliabed _
I the Treaty of ITB^ tkat tts navigation shall be
' eommon to both parlies, and agrees that the P^irts
OD the eastern side shall be free to both. This,
«i 10 tmr ports, if any part of our country od thai
' lirec might be so denomiDaled, was only placing
diem on the same footiog that our Atlantic ports
stand on with reference to foreigners; and be
conceived there could be do reasons why the peo-
ple living on (hose waters, so fiir as the natu
Iheir situation admitted, should be placed
The sinh article, which provides for the ^ ^
ment of the Britisn debts, had hvta a subject of
mach etfttnor. It had been declared to be an ir
terrerence with the Judieiarj, If the Commii
iioners wvre to decide against the debtors. Th
would certainly be an insurmountable objection ,
bat this was wholly oni of their province ; they
are oBlr to decide against the United Stales, to
determine what impediment they have placed =-
the way t»I the recovery of those debts, or ha
suffered ao to be placed, and to say what sum
damages they shall pay for their violation of t
Treaty of 1TO8 — & subject of inquiry wholly o
of the province of the Judiciary. As to the
amount of those debts, he had not been able to
¥,y much attention to the consideration of it.
here seemed to him, On this occasion, in the
S^Dtleman from Virginia, who might perhaps
iriy claim to know as much about it as any
body, a Tery jgreat disposition 10 exaggerate it ;
but if the Uiiited States had stipulated by Treaty
thmt lit* impediment should be placed In the way
of their recovery, and, in violation of their stipu-
lation, soch impediments had been suffered to
take place, Justice reqaired that they should
make good what had been snffered in consequence
of the riolalion. It had been mentioned as taking
an ibemselres a load cT debt which was not their
own. This was the misfortane of the United
States, and the fault of those States who had
CKuned these legal impedimeots; it was not the
fanlt of the Trekty. The Treaty did not adopt
thone debts; on principles of justice and good
hlth, tbey had beeone the dsbta of (be United
Stales, so soon, as by a violation of their contract,
they^ had rendered them uncoUeclable from the
original debtors; the Treaty only provides for the
liquidation of a demand against the United Statea
"bich justice had fixed on thenj before.
The mode of appointing the Commissioners,
too, for this purpose, and tor adjusting our claim
for spoliations, had been objecLed to, and a gentle-
nan from Virginia had denominated it a throw-
ng up of cross and pile ; but what mode would
the gentleman be satisfied with! If we might .
have the appointment of the fifih, or of all the
Commissioners, it would doubtless be more agree-
able to the United States; but since that could .
be expected, he could conceive of no mode
. . ^r, in case the parties could not agree, than an
appointment by lot.
When national controversies were subsisting,
respecting the adjustment of which they could
not agree, relinquish ment of their demands on
the one side or the other, arbitration or arms
were the only alternatives; important controver-
sies were subsisiiog between the United Slates
and Great Britain respecting which they could
not agree. Neither of them could with honor
relinquish Iheir claims; by the Treaty, the allet-
of arbitration has neen agreed on, and as
he believed, to the honor and ji
it of both the
Strange objections, he said, had been made ip
the ninth article, it having been considered as re-
viving claims to land, which had been extin-
gaishid. He conceived it as intended onlv to
explain a subject which had been lefl undenned
by the Treaty of 1783. 'fhere was no stipulaiioa
in that Treaty respecting the holding of lands,
then Owned by citizens of the United States in
Great Britain, and by British subjects in the
United States; a doctrine generally held in bolb
countries was, that aliens could not hold lands;
but the alienage effected by tbe separation of the
two couatriea was of a kind not calculated for in
the legal ideas of either country, as the lands,
liowever, were well vested originally, and the
alienage of the pronrietors effected without theii
fault. It had not, ne nelieved^ on either side of the
water, been contended that it worked an escheai
or forfeituie of the lands; still it had been held
by surveyors iu both countries, that on tbe death
of the proprietors, those lands could not descend
to his heirs, being aUens, and to remedy this diffi-
culty alone, he conceived, the article was in-
tended, applying only to those who now bold
lands, in its very terms. It would be absurd to
say, that it revived or created titles which did
not now exist, and its operation on the scale he
ccMitended for, had not been, and, he believedj
could not be, objected to.
Much objection had beeti made to tbe tenth
article ; it bad been considered as a censure on
the House of Representatives ; but this objectip'q
was certainly without foundation. A pmn for
sequestrating British debts, it was trye, bad beea
before iha House, but no opinion of the Boose
bad been expressed upon it. .
It was considered as one of tbe best weapons of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP COVO;
1148
H.OPR.J
ExtaUioH of Britith Treaty.
[Apbii., 1796.
defence which this coantry could comrnand, still
.geotlemeD who objected to the article, agreed
that it waa a weapon ihey would resort to only
incasesof themoscextremeneceEsity. He believed
if they would pursue a plan of seqaestraliou. ia
all its consequences, tbey would be satisfied it
ought never to be resorted to ; and that, in de-
clarinK she would uerer sequestrate debts, Ameri-
ca had made no sacrifice. It must generate io-
fiiiile frauds amongst the debtors on whom the
public must call to pay. It would be an induce-
ment to fraudulent debtors, to excite hostility be-
tween the two countries, they expeciiog to find a
more favorable creditor in ibe public Treasury
than in their original creditor!. The admission
of the rectitude of sequestTatioo must operate as
a poison to the public and private credit of a na-
tion, and a measure of this kiod once adopted in
the proKrees of a war, must prove a very difficult
bar in tnc way of negotiations for peace.
If, howefer, there should ever be an occa-sion
in which good policy would lead this country to
frish iifielf free to resort to this measure, it was
perhaps hardly canceivable, but it must be in con-
sequence of a breach of some of the stipulations
<^ the Treaty in question, and, in this case, the
Treaty being broken by Great Britain, we on our
part, niould be free from it, and have the same
right to resort to the measure of sequestration, as
if no sach Etipalation about it bad been in the
Treaty.
It was said, there was no reciprocity in the arti-
cle, the quantity of debt in all proMbitity to be
within our power of coufigcation or sequestra-
tion, exceeding far what would be in their hands;
but besides the advantatfe to be calculated on by
tu in the articles rendering our credit better,
(here was another article in the Treaty which
might be considered as a counter-balance for this;
by the 22d article it is stipulated, that no lelters-
oi-Tnarque shall be issued without previous com-
plaint of the cause for issuing, and refusal of
compettsation. The British having a naval force
thatwe have not, it has been iiaid, have the power
to sweep the ocean of an immense property,
which the merchants of the United States have
always floating there, as a Qrst stroke at a
and before we nave any notice to withdraw from
their power. This article secures that notice.
Mr. C. said, be mu!t acknowledge, that the force
of this consideration was lessened by the ariicli
being only temporary. He did not see a reasoi
why it was not among the permanent oiies. It
appeared to him that it ought to have been. In-
deed, he would declare that it was the only cir-
cumstance, though be should not contend that il
was very important in the Treaty, notwithstand-
iDg all that bad been said against it, which ap-
peared to him fairly liable to objection.
The twelfth article did nut now belong to the
Treaty, yet a gentleman from Virginia [Mr.
OiLEsl conid not pass it, without an observation
that it nad been considered as a boon, opening the
West India trade^ and that, as the Treaty was no
better for the United States than it ought to have
been with that article, when itwas out, ihfc Treaty
must, of courM!, be a bad bargain to them ; but
the gentleman did not coasider, that there was a
(tipulation in the article which was no boon on
jur side, that certain articles should not be ex-
ported from the West Indies. The Senate con-
sidered the article as worse than noihing, and
therefore rejected it. In their opinion, therefore,
and in the opinion, he believed, of most people,
the Treaty must be considered belter for the
United States without than with (his article.
Much had been said respecting the East India
article. To determine of how much value it
ight be to the United States, he conceived, r^
quired more skill in mercantile operations and in
future events than was possessed bf any gentle-
man of the Committee; but to determine that il
was an advantageous article for them, he conceiv-
ed, could require skill in neither of these respects.
So long as the necessities or interest of the Brit-
ish will induce them to give as great or greaier
license to the trade of the United States in the
East Indies than is secured by the article, it can
he of no advantage, except that its permanency
may be calculated on. It does not preveut their
giving a greater license, il' their interest led them
to it ; and, although a gentletnan from Virginia
[Mr. QiLEs] declared the article to be worse than
nothing, because he had rather have the license
from the necessities of the British than from their
courtesy ; although there mi^ht he somethiog of
point and wit in the observation^ he rarely could
not consider it as an argument, since the conrtesy
did not remove the necessity, and it would not be
coQteoded that it lessened it. Jt is true, we stip-
ulate that India goods taken from the BntUh East
Indies shall be brought to America ; but, without
thid stipulation, wotdd not the British uve been
free to make that a condition of our receiving
themthere if they pleated)
Did the Treaty contaio a stipnlatioa that the
United States should send a certain nnrober of
vessels to the East Indies^ oi certain specific car-
f[oes? He might want the commercial know-
edge of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr.
SwAHwicK,j who had said so much about this ar-
ticle, to assist him in forming bis judgment sboat
it ; but as be had found no such stipulation, he
could derive no information from that gentleman's
observations, and must think he had better have
reserved them for his countius-house.
It had been objected to the fifteentb article,
which stipulates that no higher duties shall b«
paid by ships and merchandise by the British and
the United States, reciprocally, than is paid by
other natioDs, Ac. ; that it contained only an ap-
Garance of reciprocity. GentldmeD seemed to
ve considered all the increase of the oavigatioD
of the United Slates, and all the prosperiiy which
had attended them since the establishment of the
present Qovernment. as owins to the difference
which has been established between American
and foreign tonnage, and these advanta^a wen
now wholly removed, because the British can
countervail thia difference, and we cannot extend
it farther. For himi^tf, he apprehended tbey at-
tributed ntore of th** ftoagKntf to tlut touiee
.dbyGpOgle
1149
HISTOBY OF CONGRESS.
AFBI^1796■]
Exteutim 9f British Trtaly.
rH.orR.
than was due lo it ; he believed the British were
not resinined from counlerrailiDg our duties be-
fore (he Treaty, because they were afraid of out
going; beyond tnemjaod he much doubled if they
would not thiok it worth while to attempt the
counteiTsit. At all events, it was but a iDtttter
of ezperjment ; the article was to fall at the end
of two years after ihe present war, and would not
be renewed by us if, on experiment, wa found it to
our disadraotage.
The sereoteenth article was complained of as
having surrendered Ihe point of free ships making
free goods. Probably the negotiator bad attempt-
ed the establishmeDl of this point, but what pre-
tence had he for insititing on it, if the Briiiah re-
fused? The Law of Naliong,)! is acknowledged,
establishes the contrary doctrine. This the Unit'
ed Slates have acknowledged in all their proceed-
ings with the belligerent Powerii relative to the
subject during the present war, and Mr. Jefferson,
in his correspondence relative lo Mr. Genet's pre-
tensions, has very ably and clearly evinced the
doctrine thai free ships does not make free goods
to be the Law of Nations, and that we have no
preteasions to insist on the contrary, unless with
nations who have made Treaties with us lo that
effect. Tbe article, then, must be considered as
leaving the Law of Nations as it found it, stipu-
lating only that the power of stopping our vessels
having enemies' property on board, snail he exer-
cised with as little inconvenience as may be.
The contraband Hit has been complained of;
but tbisisnot carried so far as tbe Law of Nations
carries it, nor so far as it is carried by some Trea-
ties ; and in that part of the article which relat&j
lo provisions and other thing^ which, under par-
ticular circumstances, though not generally so,
become contraband by the Law of Nations, there
is a stipulation highly favorable to th<! United
Slates, tuch articles not being to be confiscated,
bat to be taketi and paid for.
The Iwenty-Srst article has been glanced at ;
bat as similar stipulations are contained in most
of tbe Treaties which the United States have with
foreign nations, the objections against it have not
been much insisted on.
The twenty-ihitd, twenty-fourth, and twenty-
fifth articles had been objected to by a gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. QilebJ as grazing on the
Treaty with France. Another eipression used
by that gentleman was, that they were articles
cotutrtictive of the French Treaty. Had those ar-
ticles been constructive of the French Treaty, in
doubtful points and to its disadvantage, he should
have agreed with the sentleman that they were
highly objectionable ; but this was not the case.
The gentleman himself had not attempted a cod-
Birucf lOQ of the French Treaty which would mil-
itate with them ; he believed that be waa con-
•cious that it would not bear it. The French nation
themselves had given it a construction which
clearly shows that it is no way affected by this
Treaty, for they made a Treaty with the British
nation in the year 1786, long af^er the Treaty
they made wiUi the United States, which con-
tains pMcbely the same atipulations which the
geDdeman had considered asgrazingontheFrench
Treaty. Mad there been a doubt as to the coik-
.. — .,Qj, pj- (|jg articles referred to in the French
y with the United Slates, this Treaty rf
■with Qreai Britain must incontroveriibly
have removed it.
Mr. C. said that be believed he had noticed
ost of the objections which had been insisted on
against the Treaty, and he declared that it ap-
peared to him as if it were merely a question of
speculation before the Committee ; or were they
discussing certain propositions which were to
form the basis of instructions for negotiating a
Treaty with Great Britain? Heshouldconsiiier the
Treaty a good one, and such as it would be for
the honor and interest of the Uniteit States to
adopt. He considered the permanent articles a*
important, because they settled, on terms aonsist-
ent with national honor and advantage, causes of
dispute which, while they existed, would always
endangei the peace of the nation. They acquired
the posts, which were agreed by all to be an object
of consequence, as they affected our interest, our
peace, and our honor, and they utiled certain im-
portant points of national intercourse on tevnu
which be conceived reciprocal and mutually ad-
vantageous. As to the commercial articles — in-
deed, all the articles which were not permanent —
they were comparatively of little importance.
Those, however, when the pr^ent ferment should
have cooled down, he believed would not be con-
sidered as disadvantageous to the United States,
He did not pretend to say that the Treaty was
such ' as he could have vUlitd it, dot Euch as oui
national partiality would have dictated, had wa
been tbe sole dictators of the terms; but, could
some fair and impartial tribunal have been formed
to hear the mutual complaints and pretensions of
the two nations, and vested with the power to dic-
tate such a Treaty as should have appeared to it
reasonable for the two nations to adopt, he did not
believe it would have dictated one more favoiabla
to the United States.
Oeneral and vague obieeliiHis of want of reci-
procity and leading to the establishment of Brit-
ish influence, had oeen made; but he could see
nothing of this in the Treaty, He saw no politi-
cat ties in the Treaty, and lie wished none with
any nation. Peace with all the world, and as free
a commerce as could be obtained, be believed
ought to be the leading objects of the United
Stales in alt their foreign relations.
Thus far he had considered the Treaty only as
if it were before the Committee merely on the
question of its expediency, from its contents, with-
out reference to its ratification by tbe FBaemENT,
with the advice and consent of tbe Senate; from
this circumMance, even granting there were great
force in the objections made to the merits of the
inMrument very weighty considerJtions were to
be observed, which sbould influence the Commit-
tee in the vote they should pass on the resolutioa
before them.
It was true, he said, the House bad determined
that, althougn the Pbebideht, with the advice
and consent of the Senate, have the power to makt
.dbyCoogle
an
msTOat O^ CONGHESl
1153
H.<>rR.]
JSxecution of BritM TVeoty.
[ApBIl, 1796.
Treaties, riie House of RepresentativEs are to ex-
ercise their ditcretion in judging of the eipedien-
ey of carrying them into effect ; yet they had DOt
cone so far, though the genileman from Virginia
[Mr. Giles] seenied to wish them to d9 it, so
as to declare they would consider tbemselfes aa
perfectly at liberty to refuse their aid to carry a
Treaty into effect, although made by the Pbbbi-
DEKT aod Senate, as they would be to reject a hill
which had been passed by the Senate : in this
ease, no one could pretend but ibe House bad the
same freedom to pass or reject the bill as if it
were reported to them from a committee or
brought in on leave of the House by a member.
He asked if gentlemen could be serious in such
pretensions? The PREBiDEN-r and Senate are to
make Treaties ; yet a certain mysterious power is
reserred in the Constitution, behind the curtain,
K» it were, which is to declare them, and make
them, as if they had not btai made ; and the fo-
reign nation with whom a Treaty has beeo made
by the Pbe8ii>ent, and to whom he has declared
that it shall be execnted with punctuality and
good faith, is'to be told this is a mere Treaty in
negotiation; you have no claims on nsfortheful-
filment of it. We will treat with you for a new
Treaty if yoD think proper ; but this, althotigh
you call it a Treaty, is not such. He would like
to see the gentleman fi-om Virginia, [Mr. Madi-
toN,] who had so ably advocated the construction
of the Constitution by which Treaties are to be
considered as only bu;un, afler they are made.
Wrapt in his mantle of doubts and problems, ana
going an a mission to the Court of London to
clear up the business ; for he presumed no gentle-
bian would question but it would merit the send-
ing an Ambassador Extraordinary, and he could
not think any person fitter than that geoiIemiLn
could be found. High as was his respect for that
gentleman's abilities, he feared, however, that they
would prove incorapeteni to the task, even if aid-
ed with a Collection now making of the speeches
in the House of Representatives on the Treaty
^lestion. And howeverge'ntlemen liiight declare
e Construction of our Consiiitnion must lie with
otirselre*, if in our negotiation with the world,
we did not so contrive it as to be consistent #ith
reason and the common sense of mankind, and by
such a construction evince to them that we were
dot bound by tfaii Treaty, th^y must consider us
t failhtesg nation— a rote of the House of Repre-
■entatives against the sense of the Pre^idbkt,
Senate, and a great proportion of the American
people, and against all former practice on —
ConstiiutioD, could not be expected to removi
Gentlemen had treated all considerations foreigo
to the merits of the Treaty (w unworthy the at-
tention of the Committee ; but it certamty was
proper to inquire what would be the situation of
the cmintry in case the Treaty should be rejected.
He conceived it wonid be nearly ascertained, by
s recurrence to the state of things at the time the
negotiator of this Treaijr was appointed. A gen-
eral irritation prevailea Ifarbughoai the country
fbt ibjaries snitain^d from the British nation, and
r
general alarm existed that the United Slates
were on the eve of a war. To obtain redress for
those injuries, sequestra lion, commercial restric-
tions, and regulationsj with a stoppage of intet^
course, were agitated in the House.of Representa-
tives, and if the Treaty should be defeated, would
probably be resorted to again ; thoufb not amount-
mg directly to war, he Believed wnen those mea-
; were proposed, that they would infallibly lead
i and although in the House of Representa-
tives they were by the advocates of them declared
to be the most peaceable and conciliating things
in the world, yet they were universally admired
by all out ofdoora who wished for war. It would
be natural, if this Treaty is not carried into effect,
to resort to the same measures again, for it is
hardly to be expected that the American people
are going to sit down quietly, and without com-
pensations, under the injuries they have sustain-
ed. It would be absurd to think of further nego-
tiation ; and when the causes of irritation which
before existed, and had nearly brought those two
nations into a war, have added to them the dissat-
isfaction that must he expected to result from our
failing to fulfil the stipulations of this Trealy, he
thought they could not fail to produce iu
It had been said that the interest of Great Bri-
tain would not permit ihem to go to war with the
United States, and the United States surely would
not begin it. But, he asked, what wars were be-
gun or carried on upon cool calcuUtiiHis of inte-
rest ? It was passion pride, and ambition, not in-
terest, which generally brought on wars; and,
under present circumstances, he believed the Unit-
ed States more likely to commence declared hos-
tilities BEainst Great Britain than Great Britain
against (Rem; at no time could it be said there
was no chance of a war, when causes of national
controversy, however insignificant, were subsist-
ing. The consequences of war, in general, might
be calculated at a certain loss of blood and trea-
sure ; but, in the infancy of the United States, di-
vided as they mnst be on the principles of the
war, if they should be forced into one in conse-
Sience of a rejection of the Treaty, he considered
eprobable evilsofit to be incalculable, and could,
for himself presage nothing less than a dissolo-
lion of their Government.
In every point of view which he could considet
the subject, he must view the Committee as u^ed
bv the strangest motives to adopt the resoluuoa.
Ir the Treaty waa to be considered merelv as ia
proposition, it afforded to them an honorable ad-
justment of national controreisies, vhicli, so long
as they remained unadjusted, must endanger the
peace of the conntry ; and, from this consideralioa
alone, if there were no other advantages to be ex-
pected from II, promising important benefits to
the United States^
But tu more powerftil considerations were de-
rived from coQsidering that, by the Supreme Ex-
ecutive of the United Statet, and by the Senalb
thefaith of (he nation had been pledged, and wou^
in spite of all the metaphysical subtleties which
had been brought fbrward In tbe House of Repre-
tentatires, be coOaidered ■■ violaiej, if the Trea-
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of the Treaty sod the Taith,
"^'le United States, he
would agree to the
had no doubt
resolotion.
When Mr. CoiT had eonctuded —
Hr. 8. Smith tore and saidj the snbject iheo
before (be Committee appeared to him to be of an
importance at least equal to Ae great Constitu-
tiooal question whirb aeitated the House duritiK
the present session ■, it baa had, and he trusted
woi\[d continne to have, the same calm -attention
paid to its discussion. He hoped aod expected
thai it vonld ultimately be determined w>tb aview
to the real interest of the nation, under the eiist-
incr state of things.
The question is, whether we shall confirm, by
an act of this Honse^the Treahrmade by the con-
stituted authority with Qreat Britain ; or whetber,
harine the declared right so to do, we shall refase
to mue the appropriations necess&ry to carry the
same into effect? The apprehension lest the
Treaty should be carried into effect, hai> alarmed
the pnbiic mind. Some are seriously concerned
on account of evils that they apprehended might
result therefrom; other* afiect an exireordinary
concern, and, like the alarmists ot England, ruo
■bout every ivh ere dissemioatiog their Hl'founded
fears. He said that his constituents had taken up
the subject r a small part have thought it advisable
to instruct him to employ his best endeavors loob-
ttin the necessary appropriations ; another part,
equally respectable and more numerous, have ei-
S rested tfaeir wish (hat he would exercise tiis own
Lscrelion on the present great occasion, and that
they will cheerfully acquiesce (a» good citizens
ought to do) in whatever may be the decision of
the national Representatives, atier a free discus-
sion of the principles of our Qovernment and the
interests of the nation. In paying respect to the
latter, he should perhaps give sati-^faction to the
When the Treaty was first published he bad
read it with aitenrion, and although be bad not
seen all those faults with which it has since been
charged, yet there was, to his view, so tittle good
contained in it, and so much of evil to Ik appre-
hended from it, that be had'felt a hope that the
PiEaiDEirr would not have ratiQed it. He had
beoi disappointed, yet he had not a donbt but (he
PaEsiDEnr, after the most mature consideration,
had given his a^natnre; being possessed. a.i he
was, of every iniormation rehlive to a subject so
very important, he eonid better determine on the
policy of its adoption than those who were less
informed. Still there were many articles, par-
ticularly the commercial, which every man might
judge of from the face of the inatrnment. Oi
these be did not hesitate to give an opinion
which was, that they promise not ooe solitary
advantage, and shackle odr commerce in many
important points. He vrould not (rouble the
Committee with going deeply into a subject iha(
has already been soably discussed. He, however
could not refrain from a fewremarki on the ri||A
In '■oantervail our extra duties on tonnage q|
s imported in fbreign bottoms. He askeqi
what would this countervail be 7 Could any maa
tell ? It was not specified in the article ; it wak
then discretionary with the British ; discretionary
"'""" a nation wdose rule of right bos always been
neasureof its power, whose conduct has in-
variably been to crsmp and distress the commerce
of all other nations. To such a nation was it
proper to trust a latitude of that extent? Will
:he make her countervail oppressive and unjust 1i
t is more than probable she will, and if she should,
what remedy have we? None; for we are for-
bidden by the same article to legislate further on
the subject.
He said he would take leave to explain the 13tb
article, which relates to tbe East India trade, and
which it has been said gives such solid advantage.
to counterbalance all tbe evils arising out of
the Treaty. He had taken some pains (o inforia
himself on this subject, and he hau found that the
American^ in common with all other nations,
traded to the British and other ports of India, ana-
i everywhere received with that sort of kind-
wbich grows out of the interest tbal the
vender has in selling his goods for ready money,
and to a. great prom; that our trade is so much
the interest of the India Company, and of all its
officer's and factors, as well as oi the private traders
residing there ; that it was ridiculous to suppose
the India Company would prevent it ; and, if they
should, what would be the evil ? Little or none ;
for there were other ports, belonging either 10
other European Powers or to (he natives, in the
neigbborhood of all the English ports, who would
receive us wilh open arms, and supply as for out
silver, on terms equal, or nearly so. He then
stated that our ships could now carry from one
port in India to another, to Chioa. or to Europe;,
anemp'oymentthathad been founo very lucrative.
Under the Treaty, they must proceed with whal-
er they purcba.se in an English port direct to
nerica. Tbe article says. His Majesty consents
your trade to India, aud this is called a boon.
It appeared to him just as ridiculous as if His
Majesty bad said he consented to our going to
Great Britain to purchase its manufactures.
To enumerate the many faults he found with
tbe Treaty, as welt of omission as commission,
would take up too mucb of (heir precious time ;
yet he tmsteif he should be excused foi taking a
short view of its leading features.
When the Envoy was sent to Great Britain, he.
was principally to demand restitotion for the cruel
depredations commitied on our commerce. We
find that object attended to so vaguely that our "
best-informed men seem doubtful whetber much
will ever be recovered under tbe Treaty; they
find that in every instance (he loser must first,
pursue his remedy through their tedious and ex-
pensive Courts. We find, that by fair construc-
tion, we have acknowledged ourselves to have been
tbe infractors of the Treaty of Peace ; for what
was the groand on which some of the Stales
placed legal impediments to tbe recovery of Bri-
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Extcution of Brituh Treaty.
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tuh debts? Why, ibat Lord Dorehestet bad re-
Jased to deliver up or ^j for the negroes which.
ly thai Treaty, ought to bare been restored, and
which slaves wouTd have assisted their toasters
^y their labor to pay those debts; yet we see no
mention of tbem in the Treaty; and we find to
our surprise, men, since this TreB.ty, defending
the conBtruction lately put on the Treaty of Peace
by the British, and which bad never before been
beard of; thus acquiesciog in the ebaree of our
being the first aggressors. But this onlv relates
to our honor, and of course can be of liiile conse-
quence lo a Datlon whose rule of conduct is to
submit to everything, provided. that on the whole
account, there appears to be a Dalance of profit io
After haviog tbas formed his opinion relative
to the Treaty .liis next inquiry was, is the Treaty
CoQstitutionan On that point be bad held him-
hU* open to conviction, ana waited its discussion.
He bad not heard any genilemaB declare it un-
constitutional, except one, [Mr. Page,] who seem-
ed to give his opinioD as if he still doubted ; and
having carefully considered the subject, be was
DOW of qpioion that there was nothing directly
repiignaut to the Constiiuiion in the instrument.
He then inquired whether, under the existing
slate of things the Treaty ought to be rejected 7
Whether it contained stipulations so extremely
injurious to the United Slates as ought to induce
the House of Representatives to r^ecl a compact
made by the other branches of the GoTeroment?
In the ten first articles, which are permanent, he
found some objections. The third article, which,
like many oihers,cannot bewell understood, seems
to say that goods imported in British bottoms to
the ports of the Lakes, shall pay extra duty. If
this be a true construction, it will then be neces-
sary to repeal our restraining duties, to make the
Treaty by law consistent with the Constitution,
which requires that all duties shall be equal. The
tenth article ties our hands against sequestration,
a power which ought not to oe exercised, except
on some very extraordinary ucca.'^ions ; yei it was
a power which, considering our relative situation
to Qreat Britain, it was imprudent to part with ;
■till, on fair eonsideraiiou, he did not find that
there was sufficient cause, on the account, to re-
' iect the Treaty^ in the situation wearenowplaced.
The residue will expire in two or three years.
He would say a fewwoids on ibe 18th and 24(b
articles. The i9th, commonly known as the pro-
vision article, he had not understood as giving the
British a right to seize our vessels carrying pro-
visions; but (he King of Great Britain having,
aHer the Treaty had been signed by Grenrilie
and Jay, issued an order to that effect, it seemed
a comment upon and as esiahtishing his construc-
tion of the article. However, as he ha.s withdrawn
that order since the ratification, and as it was now
under negotiation, he would hope that the expla-
nation would be to our satisfaction. The 24ih
article altered the state of things with respect lo
Prance. Heretoforethe French had (not by Treaty,
but under the Lawx uf Nations) a rig^t in which
we acquiesced, to sell their prizes. By this article
they will be prevented; and should a war take
place between England and Spain, which ia not
improbabIe,then the former will, under this Treaty,
havea right to bring their prizes into port, aDd,an-
der the Lawso/ Nations andour usage, to sell them,
while aU her enemies are prevented from selling.
What would be the conseoueace? Why, tbat your
ports would swarm with British ships of war and
privateers, on board of whom your Geameu would
embark, in spite oFevery opposition. Good policy
will therefore dictate that a law should pass to
prevent ihe sale of the prizes of all nations within
Mr. S. then stated that notwithstanding 'the
man? objections he had to the Treatr, yet be
would give his consent to carry it iaio eflecl in a
Constitutional manner: Not because bethought
that war would ensue in case of its rejection; not
because the underwriters have refused to write
any more against nhe sea rbk; not because the
merchants pretend thev are afraid to pursue thcil
usual commerce ; not because of the frivolous re-
Eorl tbat the Chargi d'Afiairs of Great Britain
ad threatened that the posts would not be givea
up unless ihe appropriations were made — a report
which he hopeo and believed to be unfounded.
He added thai he could not believe that any gtn-
lleman could be in earnest in the opinion thai a
war with Great Britain would ensue in case of
refusal. To what purpose would they deprive
themselves of their best customers'! Nobodycan
contena plate that they would invade our territory.
It is true that tbey might sweep the ocean of a
great pari of our ships, but would that be an
equivalent for the loss of our trade, or the risk
they would riin of losing Canada? The idea of
war seemed to him to be too ridiculous lo be men-
tioned in ihat House — could be intended only lo
alarm the public mind, and ought to be treated
with contempt.
But there was good ground to fear, that if ^e
Treaty was rejected, the British Courts of Ajp-
peals, which are generally directed by the Minis-
ter, would confirm the decrees made against our
propertv in their Colonial Courts; ana that [he
Bermudiaus and others would speculate on the
possibility of a war, seize our vessels everywhere,
and that their Judges would continue to condemn
as heretofore, without law or justice.
Merahants again pursue their business, and they,
as welt as the underwriters, will he ashamed of the
ailempi made to influence the voles of the House
of Representatives ; for are not those the very mett
whom we have seen reprobating the conduct of
the Democratic Socieliesi And will tbey, on ma-
ture reflectioQ, who have reprobated the Demo-
craiio committees of correspondence, believe that
it was proper to institute commitleei of correspond-
ence lo influence the merchaots and traders of the
Union, in opposition to the House of Repre»enia-
tives? He felt assured (from the knowledge he
had of Ihat House) that as they would not be in-
fluenced by such conduct to vole for the measure,
neither .would they be induced lo vote against it
because of ibowjusi subjects of irritation. Our
duty to our consiiluenti Uugbt lu that we were
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1158
Apaih 1796.]
Execution of Briliah Tnaiy,
[H.o
the Repmentatirea of their intemta, and not of
oai OVD pasaions.
For DODe of thoM teasoos, he tepeaied, did he
^tre his cooseat ; but, because he did believe that
It would lead to restore harmoDf and UDaaimity
toonr public meaaores; a House aoneBrlf divided
agaio&t itself could neVer (hriTe : Because the
most material articles will expire in two or three
yeara ; and, from the great and serioas opposition
to them, as well among the people, as in this
House, he did not believe they would ever agai
be renewed : Because, he did believe that the Pal
fliDENT and Senate bad conceived that they had
right to make all Treaties, without the concu_
rence of this House, and had, under that impres-
sion, committed the faitb of the nation : and,
because, that he believed it to be the opinion of
the great majority of the people of Maryland,
whom he had the honor to represent, that, al-
though their dislike lo the Treaty continues, yet
that less evils will grow out of its adoption than
mav be apprehended from its rejection. A reason,
to his mind, sunerioi to all others, and which,
although he haa not been of a similar opbion,
ought and certainly would have governed in the
present great and importaut question.
Mr. IsAAD Smith addressed the Chair as fol-
Mr. Chairman : I wish to make some observa-
tions on this occasion, and 1 promise the Com-
mittee they shall neither be inany nor long.
There appear to be two objects in the debates
that have so long engaged the attentioa of this
House: Isi. Our right to interfere in making and
sanctioning Treaties ; 2d. To nullify the Treaty
pretended to be made betwixt this country and
Great Britain.
As to the first, ibis House has established the
principle' as far as it can establish it; we have
voted It, we have resolved it, and we have placed
our resolutions on our own Journals: however, it
will be liable to that instability which always
attends constructive opinions, and will vibrate
backwards and forwards as public opinion may
ebb and flow at future elections. There is only
one way to fix it, and the Constitution has pointed
out that way. I hope it will not be thought ne-
cessary to exemplify the force of this principle by
reiectiae the Treaty now under consideration.
TThe Treaty is said to he a bad one. I do not
think, myself, that it is unexceptionable— the sun
bai dark spots in it: but I really think, upon the
wholp, it is a ^ood one, and ought to be adopted,
for the foliowmg reasons:
We sball obtain the Western posts, and secure
peace with the Indians. This we know, from
sorrowful experience, is worth a million and a
half per annum, allowing scalping and Innrdering
to go for nothing.
fn the next place, we shall have an ojiporiunity
of settling all our extensive boundaries, in an ami-
cable and permanent manner. 1 cannot even con-
jecture the value of this; perhaps no man can
lelL
In three years we may permit it to die in peace,
if we chtxM, and then tdl it* sins and imperfec-
tions wilt be at an end ; but, in the meantime, we
secure the grand and invaluable objects before
enumerated. How very bad indeed a Treaty
must it be, that wonli^ justify the rejection of such
advantages rather than adopt it 1
What will be the probable consequences of the •
rejection 1 It cannot be concealed that the mere
apprehension that this may be the iase, has ahoek-
eo, like a stroke of electricity, the commercial
part of our citizens, as faras the alarm has had time
to extend, and paralyzed the extensive and pros-
perous exertions of trade. A solemn and anxious
pause, foreboding some important event, pervades
the community at large. Let us also pause. The
moment is big with events. The Rubicon is close
before us. l/^like Cssar, in a state of doubt and
desperation, we pluni^ in, like Cicsar, we may
destroy a glorious Republic.
I am neither timid nor prophetic i yet, certainly
I do apprehend injury from Britain. Her super-
abounding pride has always been an overmatch
for her prudence, and even her interest, in all her
conduct relative to America. She has not, per-
hapsshecannot, forgive us the mischiefs she has al-
ready occasioned ^s. Nevertheless, let not our ha-
tred of her pasE conduct, nor our provocations at
her present behaviour, nor the love of victory in
debate, influence our sober judgment on this so-
lemn occasion. Wc are a deEherative body; po-
liticians should have no passions; reason should
be our guide; reason is a cool thing; heat it and
you destroy it.
Mr. Hendehbon. — Mr. Chairman : It is with
diffidence that I rise to take part in the discussion
of the question now before the Committee, and
to offer my sentiments upon a subiect of such im-
portance as the one under consideration— a sub-
{ect, to mv mindj of the greatest importance that
las ever been discussed since the establishment
of the present Government — a subject, upon the
result of which may depend whether our Consti-
tution will be preserved inviolate, or will be in-
fracted— a subject in which public faith, with a
foreign nation, is not only implicated, but pledged,
and in danger of being prostrated — and upon the
determination of whicn may possibly be ibe event
of war abroad and dissension at home. Sir, upon
a question of this magnitude, I could not recon-
cile it to mv sense of the duty I owe my country
to give a silent vote.
When the debates first look place relative to
the Constitutional Treaty-making power, and the
power of this House to control that power, I was
silent, from an opinion that the discussion took
place before the oue season, and that it was only
a profusion of time, expecimg, when the Treaty
negotiated with great Britain was taken under
consideration, that a more proper opportunity
would be afforded for offering my sentiments upon
the subject. That time is now before roe. Sir,
I am in favor of the resolution under deliberation,
sod hope that it will be adopted. It is to make the
necessary provision for carrying into operation
the Treaty that has been neg;oliuieil with Great
Britain. It is, in mjr opinion, making provision
for Ibe support of the honor, of the iaitb of tba
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Treatjr, article hj article, as some gentlemen have
done. I will not say that I approve or duapprore
of all the parts (hereof; I will o at y observe, in
this place, inat the Treaty has been made bv the
proper CoDstitulional BUlhorily consliluled for
that purpose, and that it has become the law al
the land ; that, in my opinion, there are no pro-
miaent features of such a daQgeroui, degrading,
and destniclkTe nature t^xhibiled upon the face of
more essentially promoted by carrying it
eration, ib^n by arreititig the progress thereof.
Bir, as much has been said on a former occa-
sion upon the CoBslituiiooat TreBty-making pow-
er, aoa (he t>ower of thU House relative lEereto;
and as the subject has doi pnssed unnoticed iu the
E resent disctuiioa, I will beg ibe indulgence of the
lommittee while I offer a few obseivatioos that
have occurred to my mind upon this subject ; and,
in forming my opinion, I have not taken my fiigbi
BcroM the Atlantic to consult the constitutions
and practices of difierent Qovernments ; neither
have I suffered my imagination to pursue those
who have traveled so far out of the true way,
fully believing that every attempt to bring our
CuostitutioD to the level oicompftrison with those
of monarchical Governments, is only an attempt
to throw a sbade over it. Neither shall I
extend my views for years back, to take into con-
sideration what has been urged to have taken
J lace in the original Convention which formed the
'edeial Consiitution. nor in the different Slate
Conventions, when the Federal Ooostilution was
under their respective discussions.
I will only observe, that were I to have te-
conrse to them, they would all tend more fully to
confirm my mind in the opinion I have formed
upon this subject. Sir, I have taken the Federal
Constitution, aod that portion of reason that Pro-
vidence has favored me with, for my guides ; and
I hope to be excused if, while I am offering my
sentiments upon a subject of such importance as
the one under discussion, I shall not be able to
express my idea with all the regularity of legal
arrangement, as I have not had the advantage
that most of the gentlemen who speak on this
floor have had — I mean that of a legal education.
One thing, however, I shall endeavor to observe,
which is, to avoid art and sophistry, of which
there has been so great a display by some gentle-
men on the present occasion, and to express
mywll in language intelligible and unequivocal.
Aj the subject has been so much exhausted, I
shall be obliged, in order to avoid the repetition
of other gentlemen's arguments, to take new
ground in a considerable degree, or rather to
chalk out a new path through the old grouni).
Sit, I find upon the face of the Constitution,
and. in the plain express words thereof, sufficient
data to eovern my opinion upon this subject.
This is ihe strong pillar of our political fabric ; it
w the vehicle conveying powers to all the consti-
tated authorities, and when it stops short of cou-
veying the Becesaary powM ibex mut reviam
with the people, wlio are the sotuce of all puw.
And if it should appoar that, in any cue, « power
dangerous for the liberties of the people was reat
Iv conveyed by the Constiiutioa, tnepec^le ought,
tney will, whenever sensible thereu, reslrUB ot
control it, by amending the instrument. Sir, let
U£ travel abroad as far as we may ; let ue extend
our researches ai\er as many extraneous means
of assistance to support farced and coastruetive
opinions of the Constitution u all tlie rack of hu-
man inventioa will enable us to Ao, we must at
last return to that, and take oot direction theie-
Let nt, tbeiL eansidcT what this imponaot, lltit
safe gaide kids os to upon the prewnt oeeuion ;
important, because it is the will, the voiee, of tiie
people collected and commonicated to us in d>a
most solemn manner; safe, because, while porso-
ing it strictly, we shall never be led astimy.
Sir, the Constitution declares that "the Pbebi-
BEttT shall have power, by and with the advice
and consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, pro-
vided two-thirds of the Senators present concur."
Here is a power granted to two of the constituted
authorities for certain purposes. It is a power
essentially necessary for the good of the nation,
that it should be lodged in some of the Constitu-
tional departments of Government. Here, then,
we find the sacred, the important deposile ; and
there is not an article, section, sentence, or word,
in Ihe Constitution, that conveys au idea of any
other power bein^ designed or made necessary to
co-operatewith this power. It is all comprehend-
ed in these few words, " the Prebidekt snail have
power." Can power, by language, he more ex-
pressly, more exclusively and completely granted?
1 contend not.
To admit the Constitutional Treaty-making
power 10 be complete in the Prebident and Se-
nate, as I think has been done frequently, even by
gentlemen in the opposition, and as it were in the
same breath, to set up a controlling power,
over that complete power, will, in my opia*
ion, confound the wisdom of the wise, to re-
concile with propriety and consistency. Sir,
I am of opinion that, woen a Treaty wiUt a for-
eign nation, confined within Coustituiional bounds
and limits, is negotiated by an Ambassador of the
United States constitutionally appointed : when
the Treaty has been ratified by the Fresideht, by
and with the advice and consent of the Senate, as
the Constitution directs, and is promulgaied by
the Proclamation of the President, that it be-
comes the law of the land, or, as the Constitution
expresses it, "the supreme law of the land;" that
it requires no act of this House to give validity
as to the binding inflaence thereof. Sir, it is de-
clared by the same Constitution, that it shall be
paramount to the Constitutions and laws of the
respective States, and of course paramount (for
the purposes thereof) to the laws of the Generai
Government, in cases where there might be a
clashing; aiid I have not a doubt on my mind,
but that the judges of the Supreme Court of the
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itraclMB tfavMfroai, tbat ibe autboritr af the
Unilsd State* mml laalada Ibe Hoiua of R«p(«<
wMaitTea at irell M the PaniftBiiT and BeoMe.
I ibould aappMe it enreelir potable for. aoy per-
son to read the CsMtttuliaa! eareftiUy, aad scri-
oatl7 loga*« Boell a* o^ion, aalsn he ir«i go-
Tvroed br a (troas' deaiie te puticipata, ddI oQjy
in tkeTreaif-niabiDp, bot in all power, for the
idea maj, witb eqiiu propriety, W applied !□
every act of the Sseoative depaiHneni of Oo-
ventmeai.
Sir, 1 #aaM mIi tftbere are m aoia dene uadcr
tbe antboritr of tbe United Btatei but sueh aa thia
Hoine itaaaNa^MCT in, or InflnesefloTer? Per-
mit aw to aay, lir, tbai tbere are many- Let ns
oeoMili the CoKtitutioo,. and we sbaB find tbat
there are iooie in vhieh tbe Phesidbmt, ^d
other* in wUch the PaaaiaBN-r and Henate, ia
and are exolasirel)r made tite tathoriiv of tbe
Uaited States, and m wltich it is impoaaible, from
tbe CtHiittitutian, toadmit thtt Home to have a
partioipalioD in, or infiueaee orer. I will not
take np the time of tbe Committee to troiie them
pariiculadv' in thi* ptace ; they are eoamerdted io
the eecood sectioa of the second article of the
Const! la tioD, which defines the Eiecuiire power
of the Uoited States, aad in which seetioD the
Treaty-ma fain g- power is granted.
Sir, this House ebims tbe rzereise of a eon-
trolliog powicr ov«r the Tree ty-raaking power.
Let us take a comparative riew of the Treaty-
makiog power with tbaiof iheL^^stive power,
and draw ao iofereoce therefrom. la the first
article hqiI seventh sectioa of the Oonstitntion,
the Legislative power is defined in tbe following
manner :
' Btm^ bin wUd shall have paund the Hoese of
Rapnsentat^res and tbe Smate, AaA\, before it beeomei
a law, be pieeentad to the President of the United
States; if he ■^mre, ba ahall ijgn it; bntif net,be
■ta^ ntom it, with Ua obfeolioDs, to that House in
which it shall have airinatod, who shall enter Iha eb-
'yOaanm M laria upon tbsir Joumsl, and pmeeed to n-
oon*idar h. I^ ^Ikae swA leesmwdwatioo, twMhiids
C'
1 \ij twtMhinla of that Hoose, it dull becoma i
Sir, here is a case wherein this Hoose and tbe
Senate bare a efM>peMiive power with the Ps&-
aiDBNT, but, in case of diSerence of opinion, the
check ia iaereaBed,so as to have ihasuDJect mote
Itaitrooghly ioveaiigated, and the power of tbe
PaEsiOBNT in this case is greater ibaa the power
of a majority of both the other brancbcs of Go-
Teroinent. Sir, permit me to make one or two
observntionB upon the rules observed bptween the'
two Houses in onse of disagreement. Tbe House
■4th Cos.— 38
cao^R.
of Hepieeentittvea pass a biU ani tend it Io Ae
Senate for concmreMce; the Senate propMea
antendmeDta, tbcv are rejeeted by the Heuae;
coolereoBe ia bad betvcnn tiiA two Hoasas by
oMaben appotamd ftom eneb, to try and iboto-
■orale tbe wesm of both Hooaea tt^lher, wU«)i
Is for the moet part (thongh I believv not alwaya)
do(l^ If the two Hoaaes disagree finally, the UQ
is loK, doea not pa»* into a law ; all the ebccbaBd
balaacea which hare been so fie<)neiitly ntentioB-
ed as amang the ezaelleneies of out Constkntion,
arF,in these oases. eiereised,amd have their niceet
opuaiioa bcfcre the bill paasea into a law, or bfe-
fore it is defeated. Bat, when passed into a law,
tiie idea of flecks and baUnees- haviog bad ibeir
operation, is at an end. Sir, does tbe Constitu-
lion proTide any such chBch or muirol wilh re-
gard to the Treaty-making powerl Does it re-
oiiire tbe FaianMiiT and aennte, after awoving
TieatieB, to send them to thie House for detibera-
tioOffor eoncurrenct, or fbrapprobatioul no,aw,
not an idea of the kind.
There is no proviaioti made in case o/ disappro-
bation iX thi* Hoaaej tbat they should be letumad
by the PxBMDKitT and Senate, with their reasons
for disapprobation, to be reconsidered, so that, in
oaoeoftlisagrcMnent, there might .be some pos-
sible way to reconcile it. . There ia no auch clieck,
no aucb control, nor worda that can convey aooh
an idea. From thenee, sir, this influence loay
aajiUHlly be drawn, that a check or coatrolliog
Ewer to tbe Treaty-making power could not
ve been des)f[ned by the ifament of the Coneti-
ttition, otherwise it wnuld certEtialv have been
made legible upon the face of it. The idea that
tbia House has a control over the Treaties, ia-
oording to my inind, tends to the consolidatioD of
power, It prevents the opemtion of checks attd
balances in the wa^ the CoostttutioD poiats out,
and tends to the annihilation of .Preside a tia I aita
Senatorial powers. Sir, the nature of balances
mu»t be changed on atHae new principles estab-
lished to suit the times, Iwfore we can admit tbe
leaser to weigh down the greater, and a lever to
be balanced with all the wMght at one end.
Sir,is the ideaadmiiaible, that our Constiiation
has the seeds of war, the foundalion of dissensicHi
between the diflerent branches of Governmeat
planted in it, anil tbat there should bo impoaaiMe
ineaae <ri^recoticiliation provided? Sir, ray mind
revolts at the idea of it, and yet this ia the iaeue,
thisisthecertaineonKqueDoeof thedoetrinanow
supported. It is rsali^al ia out present siluatioii.
This Hooaeis at variance with one of the branehas
of QoTerament, aad hhere is danger that we may
soon be in the same situation, with r«gard to the
other branch' In this situation, (which, however,
I sincerely hope we may not be reduced (o,) what
is to be done? J'ermit me to sey, sir, that the
Constitution points out no way of accommoda-
tion ; it deserts us, and why 1 Because we have
forsaken it. The further We travel in the wrong
way tbe more difficult will our return be. Sir, let
us slop for a moment, before we get finally lost.
Let OS ivuse, and seriouriy consider how we shall
get back t« tlw right way again. Sir, the way is
.dbyGoogle
1163
raSTOST OF COMGBeSB.
H-ofR.]
Execution nf Brititk Tnatf.
aa vf t eaay. Let tM ^re op onr views of unnn-
dizing our own power; lei us gite doe pfficacf
%a tbp CoDBtitulioDal powers of tbe pREaisEHT
and Senile; let lu itudf to c«omote hamany
and UDanimiiy between the dinereni branchev of
Qoveroraent, and wiihin their wails, and I make
DO doubt but rre Ehall soon sunnonDt all our difii
culIie^ and promote the public good more immedi
ately and esseniisllf than by aujr olber line ol
Goodnct we can possibly pursue. Sir. il has fre-
quently been asked, wheiber ihia Treaif making
Kwer shall have no check nor control? To this
inswer, ibat, in my opinion, the Treaty-making
power, when exeioived apon and embracing ot
jeets usually comprehended in the r^aningoTihe
word Treaty, which the mutual aud coromun in-
terest of naiions reifuires, should be settled by
compact; and when it is in this, as well as othr-
respects, exercised in a Constitutional maoiic
that it w as complete, for the purpo*es thereof, i
(he Legislative powers of Congress are for the
purposes of legislation, and has no more check or
control than the Legislative power has. Permit
me now to state some further enibarrassnienls to
OOFcrnment, that strike my mind- fore it>ly, as re-
sniting from the doctrine of control over Treaties.
The President issues his Proclamation, infonn-
ing the citizens that he has, by and with the ad-
vice and consent of ^ the Senate, made a Treaty
with a certain Power, and proclaims the contents
thereof; which, from thence, becomes the law of
the land. This House wishes to exercise a con-
trol over ii ; they express their sense that it shall
not be a Treaty. Does this, sir^eslroyor impair
the binding iufloence thereof? Would the Judges
of the Supreme Court, the Judges of the Di.itrict
Courts of the Uoiled Sutes and the Judfies of
the respective State Con riK, took upon that vote
a* binding upon them, and judge accordingly? I
contend not. In this caw we shall be placed in a
most lingular andexlraordinary situation indeed ;
, a situation that I can scarcely ima^ne hoy nation
in existence wasever placed in belore. A T^aty
is constitutionally made, becomes the law of the
land, guverns the Prebidekt Ad Senate, the
Judges of all the Courts in the Union, and all the
citiieqsof the United Stales, not even excepting
the members of this House in rtieir private capa-
eilies) bot ihis House, not in their Legislatire
capacity, because they cxnnol legislate against a
Treaty, uu;, in a declaratory way, express their
aense thai it shall not be a Treaty.
Sir, in this situation, what is to be done? Per-
mit me to !<ay. sir, once mure, that ihe Coniiiitu-
tinn nbandoDs us ; it points out no mode of recon-
ciliation between the three different branches of
the Government. Thai, of course, confusion miiHi
be the consequence. But, sir, it is said that it is
a had Treaiy, and that we ought to bresli it.
With regard to this, permit me to obiierve, that
there is nothing to be discovered by my mind
upon the face ofit, either from the want of reci-
procity, oi from any principle that it contnins.
ihnt would he hulf as degradmcnnd prejudicial to
the Uniied Slates: as the viuln lion of ner honor
and failb. ' Sir, if there were no other coosidcra-
tuotivM which have coiwideraUe weigfal with m«
on th« occasioii, which I shall take notice oS hete-
ader. 1 will only obMrve, farther, on this paint,
that if it is a bad Treaty, the respouiibiliiy Kea
not with us. Wehavebadno band in tBakingit,
and we cannot const itutiooaily destroy it. The
respon^biliiy must remain with the brumes ol
Government that, in the exercise of their Consli-
tfiiional functions, bare made il.
When Ibis subject was under discnsaion upca
a former occasion, the voice of the petqile iras
laid hold of by some gentlemen with great zeal,
■s a powerful engine to enforce the doetrine that
they espoused. For my own part, I would ever
wish, both in putdic and private life, to pay all due
respect to the voice of the people, when properly
collected and commtmicated ; and I tbmk 1 am
faithfuliy pursuing that line of conduct, while I
am eudeavoring to sunport tbeir ConviitBtionat
rights and liberties; and the argnmenta of the
gentlemen in oppfNition appear to me to savot
too much of the cnamcter ot the wolf in sheep's
clothing, to have much influence over the miim
of those to whom they are addressed. HDch,aJi«,
had been said upoa toe same occasion, boih with-
in these wails and without, to impress an opinion
upon the pnblic mind, thai those who aapprnted
the ]^wer of ibis House against the power
of the PitEaiDEnT and Senate, on the subject,
w re the only friends^ Ihe only meritorious
supporters of the liberties of the people; and
ihose who opposed the usurpation of power in
ihis House, were the enemies cS the liberties of
the people. Sir, if this be the case, Limes arc
amazingly changct) indeed. I believe it is the
first lime, since the creation, that the persons who^
to asgrandize their own power, by endeavoring
to break over this ncred barrier of liberty, as se-
cured to a peopieby a Constitution, Ihe emulation
and envy of [he world, tor the pure princiiJes of rn-
tioual morality that it con tains, and by robbiagoiher
constiiuled authorities of their chartered powers,
were called the xealous, meritorious, virtuous
supporters of the libertie:! of the peopIe,ai>d those
who refused to join in the usurpation, and endt«-
vored sincerely to maintain the Constitution, and
every bnnch of QovernTneat, io the fall exercise
of their ConHtitutioDBl functions, were called chs
enemies of the liberties of the people. Sir, it
seems expedient that not only the meaniiig of
words but of actions should be changed bj con-
struction, to suit the limes. I hope we shall, in
our career, stop nhort of changing the times anil
seasons.
Sir, if our Constitution is ever violated essen-
tially, or in such manner as to endan^r the liber-
lies of the people, it muxt be done in some such
way as the present measures lead to, by one
branch of Oovernment' under false colorinii and
■•peciou!! pretexts, usurping the powers of the oth-
ers, and tbereby • ndaiigenag liie ctm sol ida lion of
power. But, sir, as long as every branch of Go-
«Tves tile full exercise of the pow-
;dbvG00gle
RISTOBT OP CON(HUB88.
AwiL. 1706]
&m<mlim (/ BritM Tnai^.
«n with wtiicb it ia veued bjr *hn CoutitHtioB,
tbf re can bt bo danger.
Mr. ChairmM, CuosiitutioBi are, to mf vuuA,
at all limca delieate and daogeroua ihiags to han-
dle ; but more partkularlr bo, when party riewi
and bigh raised. prejudicea and pawioa* are iallu-
eoeiDK outdeliberaiioiusaad Iiiaceteljrhope that
tliiv HouK will nut, in ttieir jealousy ot tbe power
of the PasBiDBNT and Senate, and in an attempt
to display ttieir own airepgib, break in upon out
escelteoi CuQ^iiiutioo. (uDder wbkch we are en-
joyioit the greatest sbare of temporal blevaiags
DOW enjoyed by any nation upon the face of ibe
eartb,) by forced coostrucliuo, and lay Tioleni
hands upoa it, Sjmson tike, and endanser tum-
bling down ibe pillar on which our political fa-
brie resLi, upon iheir own as well ai the bead* of
Mber*, and thereby hurry all into one general
acene of confusion and ruin. Sir, when [his
•ubject was under cunsideration, upon tbe former
occasion, there were sereral aptwaU made by
thoae wbo were opposed to tbe controlling power
over. Treaties, to one or two gentlemen of this
House, [Mr. MaoieoK and Mr. Bautwm,] wbo
were members of Ibe Convenlion thai framed tbe
Federal Constitution, for tbe correctnesK of cer-
tain opinions that tbey advanced, and to which
those gentlemen were oppmed. Those appeals
were not met with (he candor and frankness that
have usually marked tbe conduct of the gentle-
men to whom they were addressed. At least, I
have not heard any wtisfiictory answer giren to
ibem. As it appears to me that nut only lhi:i
House, but the public mind, might have received
considerable inibrmBtion upon the subject, from
tb« member* of that Convenlion wbo are now
member* of this Hou.'e, aod, particularly, whether
the idea of a cooirolling power in the House of
Represenuiive* over the T real y-mak log power,
was UDi abandoned by the Convenlion as not de-
signed to be granted, I was iodoced to hope that
those ^o tie men would bare giren with candor
the inlormaiion upon thai subject that the appeals
to them naturally led to,' but in this hope I was
disappointed, and am of opinion that the cireum-
stanoe, if duly considered, must carry conviction
to tbe public mind, that their silence is an ac-
knowledgment of the fiict i and permit me lo ob-
serve, that it was not to confirm my own mind in
the opinion ( have formed upon the subject, that
1 wish fur tbe information, but to auist the public
mind, that ibey might be able to judge what the
Coustiiuiion was in it> origin, in its pure native
atale, and wnen Guvernment was like an infiint,
in a state of innocence. Sir, if this information
had bivn obtained, ihe public would have been
able the belter to judge whether tbe Coastitutiou
is violated by forced const ructions, and if so, who
are instrumental in the violation 1
Sir, 1 observed when I first rose, that it was not
mj inteiliun to go into a pariicular consideration
ol the Treaty, article by article. I shall not re-
linquish ihi.< principle; 1 will only make a few
general uhservation^. with regard lo our relative
siiuatiun thereto. T.)is Treaty lias been made by
the proper constituted authorities of the OoTern-
Tha faith, the honor of Ibe nation, is pledged for
the due fulfilment of Ibe stipulations contained
therein. It is generally admitted, that, upon Coa-
stitutioDal Eroond, it may be supported. And to
my mind, there is nothing in the face of it that
appears of a dan^rous, degrading, or destructive
nature to our QoverDmenU I take it. that the
good or bad effeeis of tbe Treaty are chiefly to be
Fearned from experiment, and I should by no meana
wish to rush precipitately into certain embarrass-
menlR, to shun imaginary ones. If it goes into
opemiion, tbe most prominent disadvantages that
1 recollect to have been urged against it, are the
payment of tbe debts due lo British creditor* and
tbe great want of reciprocity. Upon these, sir,
we may calculate, iboi^h il is said with no degree
of certainty. These objections, and such other*
as have been raised, have been so satisfactorily an*
swered to my mind cbat 1 think it unnecessary lo
make any furilier remarks upon them. But, sir,
let us take a view of the prohable injuries, losses,
and damage* that we may sustain if it should be
violated. I will venture to sav that they are in-
calculable. Sir, in the first place, our national
honor and faith prostrated, the duiadvantages that
may result from this alone are not to be meted
with tbe measure ot human wisdom. Our com-
roerce ruined or vastly impaired without prospect
of reparation. Sir, tbe commerce of this country
requires ibe attention and protection of Oovem-
ment aa much if not more than any othet ohiectj
fur, sir, permit me to saj;, that it is not only a
great source of wealth lo ind»ridual adventurers,
bui it is the source from whence Oovemraent d^
rives almost all the supplies to her revenue, and
ihat it is tbe main-spring of the agricultural in-
terest ; for, sir, obstruct our commerce, and whal
will be done with the surplus of agricultural pro-
ductions 1 Sir, permit me to say, that in these re-
spects our disadvantages wilt be almost incalcu-
lable ; our Western piuts will be kept out of our
possession ;but upon tbissubject so much has been
said that there is lillle room leflfor luriber remark.
OurOofernment divided, and no probable way of
reconciliug the diflereuce ; and, sir, give me leave
to say, that we have tbe highest auinority fur the
danger of a bouse divided against itself that it
cannot stand; and, lastly, danger of laying tbe
funndaiion for war.
Sir, before 1 proceed lo offer my obsemtioDt.
upon the last |K>iut, I would make a remark or
iwo upon what bad fallen from ihe gentleman
who was second up, on Thnrnday last, from Vir-
ginia. That gentleman urged, with a good deal
of Zeal, lhat it was wrong, that it was improper
for gentlemen to touch upon the subject of war,
or to express such an opinion on this fijor, and at
the same time called a pon gentlemen to come for-
ward freely aod candialy with their seotimeols.
As I would ever wish lo avoid what is wrong, nnd
IS far Bs in my power to pursue a line of cuuduel
that should be marked with propriety. I Wiiuld b«
jbliged to lhat gentleman if be would communi-
cate a mode in which I can by being silent off.-r
my seotimeols freely and candidly upon the occa-
;dbvGoogle
11«V
WBVoat OP caKEoms.
iiu
RorR.]
ewKWtiM-^ Bt*m 7>wi».
[lTM^ t7W.
tkm, for that woald bf llw rMoll of h» otwem-
tJoos ; bat, u I do bm with to pot the fvotletnaii'i
{BTentioB ifllhe nok, I will proeceil, aad I hope 1
tkM fteithcrwant {>e«clMi) aorekndor.
Sir, the idea of wai appean lo ban no weight
with »oine gvDtlemeo, wlio tirge thai there will
be BO ntore reaMm to apprehend tuch an erent lo
take i^ace if the Treaty ahonld be infracted, than
if it should not. For m; own part I am free to
dechre (althoagh the eoniideratiaB is the moit
painfnl to me) that in nij opinion War will nato-
nlly grow out of the measum that some gentle-
mea appear anxiona to pDraiie. Permit me, sir, to
ofler my reasons for this opinion. Brery one
knows the relative siimition that ihiseounlrjr niood
in with Great Britain before the negotiaiioc of
this Treaty was entered upon. It was the general
opio ion that w«T was tinaTOidable. Thea^reMians
eotntnitted, the hostile dispodtion shown by the
Goremtnent, were at that lime so notorious, that
vre »eemed to be all of one mind npoo the subject.
But kind ProTidence has, in addition to the iani)-
merable and UDtnerited bletningi hitherto confer-
red upon ns, so inBueneed and ovemled our pab-
lic conncils, as to bring about a suspension of that
awfiil calamity, and has placed it in our offer rtill
to continue in the enioyment of peace and all the,
MesADgs that naturally Sow therefrom, npon terms
which if not in every point of view as favorable
as we could wish, or as we wonid have made, if
the bai^in had all been in our own power, yet as
mneh so ar is common between nations, and as
perhaps we ever shall tAiain. Sir, there has, ever
since the establishment of peace with Great Bri-
tain, in 1783, existed causes of controversy be-
tween the two countries.
Those that existed before the present war in
Burojie, were fre([uenily attenlpted to be seiiled
hr friendly ii<^iiii(ion« between the Minii^ter? of
the two counlriea. Those attrmpts proved un-
■ucccBsfu]. Upon the commencement of the war
in Enrope new causes of complaint arose by fre-
quent aggressions upon our commerce, and a hos-
tile disposition shown npon our frontiers. Sir, in
this situation Government was reduced to the ne-
eessily of pursuing one of the three fallowing
eonrses; lonegotiate in tn amicable, friendly man-
ner; to endeavorio repel force by force; or tamely
snbmittbihedestructionofour commerce. Nwo-
tiation was the measure adopted, and, in nly opin-
ion; was a meisQre that will forever reflect lustre
Upon the author of it; a. measare founded upon
true principles of policy and humanity. Sir, the
true issue of the measare is now before ns. A
•oleinn compact has been mode between the two
Qoremments, to accommodate their differences ;
to remove grounds of failure animosity, and to
7' the foundation for peace, amity, and Hecnriiy
commerce between the two c
HoUM vitiates the compact. What is to he done ?
How are the subjects of negotiation ever again lo
be brought into view or negotiated upon? I con-
fess I am at a loss to determine. The gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. MAniaoH] who was fir.it up on
this subject, informed us that there was little or
no difficulty in the way. We might negotiate
again, WM the g«blhn»ti^«bB«r*atJon. I aelBaowf
ledge 1 was surprised wh«n I heard that gcMla-
man deliver suek an opinion.
1 will only ofaaerve, with rennl to it, that na-
tioBB «re bound, nnd (ought Mtti if poarible lo
be more firmly KHwd,) by oompaots, equally witk
individvals. I would ask tbatgentleman whatk*
would say to a man, who, after having aealed a
Httlement of all existing differenoes, npon the
moatmattrre deliberation, was to call upon him
and inform him that he could not tell how the
bargain would tnrn out, he hail not made trial of
it, but he was of opinion that be uogfat to have
and might have obtained a better bar|;aia, if he
had stood oat a little longer, and wish btm lo can-
cel tiie (^ligation, and throw all sonrees of con-
troversy afloat again, in order to give him a
ehnnca of making a better bargain ? Sir, 1 uk the
gentleman if tie would not. in such a case, reply,
we have made a fair settiemeni, and solemnly
hound ourselve* to fulfil it, comply with yout part
of the stipulatifHia with good faith, and I will co«t-
ply with mine, and if any future cause for nego-
tiation between us ah onla arise, Iwillalwayshave
conBdence in you and will meet yon upon ration-
al and eqniiable grounds? Bat, sir, if you will
not comply with one solemn engagement, it is not
in your power to convince me that yon ever will
with any. 1 think the same will apply to nations
more Forcibly than toindividnals. But, Mr. Chair-
man, what asBtirances have we that ibe B^ecn-
tive will ever interfere in this business again?
They have done their parts as to a negoiialion
with Great Britain. How are they upon this
ground ever lo know what this House will agree
to? This House cannot co-operate with the Exe-
cutive io making of Treaties, cannot propose al-
terations or amendment*!, therefore, admitting that
the pHGHiDenTmight,iD this case, appoint an Ars-
has»ador, and procure him to accept of the ap-
pointment, which, however, 1 think exiremdy
doubtful, and a newnegotiation should be attempt-
ed, what greater assurances would there be that
the Hooae of Represents lives would assent to the
iscue of the negotiation than there was before?
Permit me to say, sir, that there would benone.
Upon the principle we are now going, every mem-
ber in this House miEbt agree to certain stipola-
tioDs in a Treaty, and they mi^t be ratified by
the Bxecuiive, and the foreign Power joining in
the compact, and laid before this House after the
next election for the appropriation, and be reject-
ed by a nnmlier of new members being relttrned.
This being the case our present negotiation, amf
all prospect of fninre negutiatioo closing npon us,
all the 'former sources of controversy revived,
new causes of discontent and comptaini will, be-
yond a doubt, arise, and we shall go on from 0!ie
step of irritation to another until war will be the
inevitable, the ewful consequence.
It is urged by some gentlemen, that there is no
danger that Great Britain will declare wnr asain^t
us. That it is not her interest so to do, Penntt
me to observe, tnat those remark.s are as correct,
in my opinion, as any 1 have heard made by the
gentlemen in tlieop]:' ""'"" ''' ' ""' "
opposition. I have no doubt but
;dbvGoogle
ld«9
HISTOKT <W CONOB^S^
U70
ArBl^ 1796.}
ExMtUim qf Briiith TVeoly.
'<
kud Uiat if this HouK should persist in ofld bring
about such measures, coDtrarr to the sease of the
aatioa, thai they alone will be tespoiulble for th«
consetiueiieea; and & truly solemn aud^awful le-
uponsibility will it be.
Mr. Chaicman, as ii appears from the course of
the debates that nations and men have more in-
fluence upon (he minds of some gentlemen than
measures, I probably may b« charged with undue
favoritism Eo the nation of Great Britain, and
that Oreat 'Britain would be willing to reniniB in
peace with us, a^ longaa we shall be dispoeed to
let her possess the iVes tern posts, and all tbe
moneys ariaing from the capture of vessels, and
to commit whatever further apoUMiooa upon ouf
commerce (hat she may incline to do. I believe
she would be very willing, upon those terms,
to avoid war. But, sir, I would ask; what are we
to do as a itation, under such circuinscaDces?
Could we retain a pacific disposition 3 Should
we not be driven into acts of reptiiat and hostili-
ty 1 Permit me to say, that (here would be no
raiioool prospect of avoiding Ebsm.
Sir, let US take a cursory view of ourcompara'
tivB siluation with Qreat Britain now and before
the Treaty was negotiated. Then, if we had by
the aggressioBs of Great Britain been coerced into
a war, we should have been united to a man iu
one common cause and Great Britain would have
been divided ; we should have had a powerful in-
terest In that nation in our favor. Would that be
the case now 7 Permit loe to say, that the re-
verse would ensue. If we bre«k the Treaty, the
Ooverument, the nation, will look upon us as the
aggressors, they will be impressed with an opin-
ion that we are not sincere in our wishes to be in
p<atce and amity with them, and will be united.
' Will that be our situation ! Sir. 1 think ve have
bnt little reason to flatter ourselves that it will.
Our General Government will be divided. Our
Stales divided : for sure 1 am, that many, perhaps
a nuuoritf, will be ojiposed to the mieaiiure. Our
oitizeus divided, and in this siluatioQ we are com-
pelled, we are dragged into a war, tbe awful
cooaequeaces of which are iocaleulablei and on
the contrary, the blessings of peace are so inesti-
mable that they are Karcely to be preserved at
too dear a price. ,
Sir, I would wish, befbt« I close my obaervations.
to make one or two reatarke upon what fell frooi
the gentleman fiom North Carolina, who wa* up
oa Thursday Last [Mr. HotxuiD.] If.iE understood
that gentleman r^ht, he observed, that he could
not vote for the Treaty without the papers, that
it would be estabti^iog the doctrine that this
House had no right to deliberate with rtigard to
tbe papers ; 1 owned I should not by any means
think myself justifiable in withholding my assent
toanLeasare(^^Teatifflportanoe,eadinwhiebibi
peace aodhappiDt^B of my country wereMsenlial
ijr concerned, Mcauae an officer of Government
tud not done wlwt he iudg«d wv not his duty to
do; and as to the geatMrnan's vote >ip*n the oe-
caaion. or tbe vote of the House eslablishiM; the
principle. I confess, I view it in a very diflerent
point of light ; becaote, if tbe docUine that gen-
tleman contends for be tooable. no princtplfl in
Government, upon subjeatsof this natare,can ever
be established, do succeeding Hquse of Bepre-
Ifttivea or Senate is bound by act* of the pteoad-
ipg Legialattue, and every aueaaediog House or
Ekaate nmy thwart or cootMt tbe aeto of tbepre-
aeding I^tgislatuta, at theiir pleasure. Sir, I would
wist) geailemca «aiaa«ly and disfaiaionaielT to
^mmiei iJw danger that will uMaidly Oowiroaa
4iHl»fMC««t9f Ah«.«H*nuea 4li>t«M I
of friendship
Kgard to tb
that I beCeve there is not a person i
lip to the Republic of France,
that sir, pacmit me to obaerve,
who knows my public and private walks in life,
that would subscribe to such an opinion! Bir, the
principles of ra t bo al liberty I wish to see dissem-
inated, and to prevail amongst the nations of the
earth as muchasanjr man,andsiQcBrelyhM»e(hat
the French Republic may establish her Chvem-
ment upon such principles, and that her' cilieena
may eojoy the blessings consequent tberefrom to
the latest ages. But, sir, permit me to observe
further, that I have a stronger attachment to my
own country than to all the nations upon the
earthiand while I have the honor of a voice in.
this House that, as far as I am capable of judging.
neither nations nor men shall influence my mini
in preference to measures, and that in all my dc-
lihera.tioDs the liberties, the peace, the prosperity
and happiness of my own coimtry shall predonu-
Bir, the State that I have (he honor to refvesenf.
although not for number of citizens to he laoked
with larger States, yet, in proportion to her num-
bers, may be ranked in the scale of importaoca
with any of her sister States. This State is chief-
ly agricultural, but somewhat concerned ini the
commercial and manutacturiog lines. As com-
merce will be promoted and secured by thit
Treaty, and as agriculture must of course
Sourish in proportion to the increase of commercCf
1 am free to declare that in those respectx, particu-
larly as well as upon eeneral principles, in mj
opinion, it will essentially promote the interasta
ot the State of New Jersey, and of the United
Siaie^ to carry the Treaty into operation, An4,
sir, I do declare, in my place, and I make tbe de-.
claration under the responsibility 1 owe to nty Qod
and my country, that from the best informalion I
can obtain from the citizens of that State, in o^
opinion, under ezisiing circumstances, the person*
■senting nine-tenths of the property of ibis
I are in favor of tbe measure. If in this <tate-
(.however, I should be incorrect in the o^-
_ )f any of my colleagues, I call upon them, aa
Representatives from that State, to set me rignk
1 shall now close, sir. wilji ezpreasing a DCfie
that the resolution may be adopted.
Mr. HoLLAKD said a few words in explsnatioiu
The Committee now rose, and had leave to ait
again.
Xhe Bna^a -informed the House feefcaflra-
Mif«d*teMa( Jjwaa tha'OtTenMrof Itn Reit^
.dbyGoogle
1171
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
L.rR]
Execution of Britiih^ Treaty.
wntero Territory. eDcltning two peiilioDi, which
he reijuesled^ as that Terriiorr had at ) i.'sent no
ReprcMQlative in the House, the Spcaxe)! would
Ceieni. Thejr were iccordinKly read. One re-
led lo lots oflaod which (be petiiioners had
been promised, and which ihejr had not received ;
the other prayed for permission to import slarcs
into that eouatrf from other Slates, ko as not to
iocrease the Dumber. They were referred to dif-
EZECDTION OP BRITISH TREATY.
Numerous petitioas were presented la-day on
the aubject of the British Treaty, HmoDg them,
one hy Mr. Gallatin, from the Stale of Dela-
ware, against the Treetf, signed by nioety-ooe
]wreons; and Mr. S. Smith presented a petition
signed by the Chairman and Clerk of a society oi
manufacturers and mechanics, at Baltimore, (aa
Mr. S. informed the House,) of about four hun-
dred respectable persons, praying that (hat House
would use its own discretion with respect lo the
Treaties before them, uninfluenced by any other
consideration then ibe public good.
Thispetition caused considerable debate. Me«srs.
Aheb, Tbitcbeb, and Sitobeave?, opposed its
being received, as it was from an unincorporaied
aocieU,as it-purported lo be the petition of a num-
ber of men,Hnd was only signed by two; and (hat
even these two, as the^ had signed (he petition in
an official character, might not approve of its con-
tents. It was supported by Messrs. S. Bhitb, Ma-
con, PiNDLET, QALI.ATIN, HiLLSOOHE. MADtBOH,
and KiTCBELL,asa practice not uncommon in ihat
House, (the societies for the abolition of slavery,
and the Society of Quakers were mentioned as
instances.) that the^ had frequently received pe-
titions of societies signed by ibeir Chairman and
Secretary, which, if they were incorporated, were
sol incorporated for that purpose ; and that, rai
jog an opposition to the practice, in this pailiculi
instance, wemed as if gentlemen were determined
to introduce uneasy sensations into their debales.
Tbe House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on the stale of the Union ; when
the resolution for eanying into effect the British
Treaty being under consideration —
Mr. Henoehron concluded his remarks, as givi
in full in preceding pages. When Mr. H. i_
down, Mr. Habpeb rose, and spoke in favor of the
KwIutioD.
[Ho re
found,aiii
At the conclusion of Mr. H.'s speech, there was
a divided cry, of "Committee rise," and, "the
qaestion;" when, the sense of (he Committee
being taken, it was in favor of rising, there being
s for i(, which was a majority of ibi
the Whole ; after which, the House reaolved itself
into a Committee of the Whole on the state ofthc
Union, when the resolution being under considec-
ation for carrying the British Treaty into effect,
Mr. DwianTFoBT£Bob.<>*rTed,thata.'<theaabjeet
before the Committee bad been minutely discuits-
ed, it was not to be expected any new arrumenta,
either on the one side or the other, woufd be ad-
duced. Hitherto, he had been siient— though si-
lent, he had not been inattentive — be had listened
with candor lo everything which had been offered ;
be had formed bis opinion upon serious delibera-
tion, and was ready lo give it whenever the ques-
.: "-—-Id be taken.
report of Mr. Harpeb's Speech can be
ind it is believed it was never published.]
Tdbsut, April 26.
EZECDTION OF BBITI8H TRBATT.
Nomenma pelitioBa oo thia aubject wct« -^
MBt^ V>4m.i, tad reftmd t« tlw CatBmittM <tf
Whei
to lay before the Hi
this Treaty, n
served, that hi
the resolution requesting the PBEsin
ony of the instraciii
i) or u meats relative
the instraciiooK,
er c ootid e rati on, Mr. P. ob-
in tended to have expressed
lubject; but the great length
of time wbicb wus spent in that discussion, and
the extreme impatience discovered by many mem-
bers tuhave the question taken, induced him, as
it mighl several others, to be content with ex-
pressing ■ silent voie.as be did with tbe minoriiy,
on that occasion. Tnts he was the more willing
to do, as it was then well known that the Treaty
itself would be before the House ; thai aome ap-
propriations would be requisite, on their part, to
carry it into effect ; and, it was not to be doutHed
but every genileniRn who wished lo expren hi*
opinion would have an opportunity. Tlie time
had now arrived, and several days had been spent
already, he believed not unprofitably, in deliberat-
?; on an instrument which bad been the cause
great agitation in the United Stales.
Mr. F. farther remarked, that be was pretared,
and had intended, to take an txteniive viewoT
the subject ; to have examined ihe real and sap-
posed merits and defect* of Ihe Treaty \ to have
stated tbe advantages it secures to ihia ctHintry,
and to have commented on the objections which
had been offered against it ; hut so moch bad been
raid by tbe gentlemen who had preceded him in
the debate, and the subject had been *o fully and
so ably di^cusHed. be should not feel himself jnMi-
fied in consuming much of the time of the Com-
mittee.
He was heretofore one of those who considered
the negotiation aa advisable; it appeared lo him
Ihe only means by which tbe horron. of war wer«
lo be avoided. He therefore rejoiced when the
pREaiDENT appointed an Envoy for the parpoae
if nesotiation; not did he yet find any reason to
ppretiend the measure was injudicioas. Far
otherwi*e. Ho believed it was right, proper, and
advisable ; and that tbe t-esull would prove highly
advantageoDs and fortunate for our country. He
forihersaid. that ha had critically examined the
varioufaHicles of the Treaty; that be had weigh-
ed the a^umenta for and against them, joiotty and
severally; that he had considered them wiui all
the attenitoa their importance reaurred ; and
though, in some instances, we might have wished
an eitenaioD of advantages on oar side, he wu
1 J : : ,, dMhra that he theB(fal
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
AniL, 1796.]
ExtaUian of BritiA TVeoly.
fH. or li-
the Treatf as beoefiDtal to us as ire had a Tigbt
to expect.
Waal were its objecin? To settle between the
two Dalions existiae diffiirences, aad to adopt auch
regalitinnsaasbould prevent [hem in futare. The
baatH or all Treaties is the mutual advantage uf
the coutracting parties. It is not to be expected
the beneSts should be on one side onlf ; they must
be reciprocal, or thef will not be lasting. Ezpe-
Tieace will teach us that the commercial regu-
lations contemplated in the Treaty with Qreac
Briiaifl, are as rarorabte to us as thejr are to that
nation. It is the opinion of many of the best in-
formed mercantile characters, they are more so.
As to the other part, which was mBnitely more
■nomeolous, the settlement of existing diff-'rences,
our utmoRt wishes will be achieved, unless pre-
vented by imprudent measores, and the exercise
of an ill-[imed discretion, as gentleraen are pleased
to call it. on our pert.
Inderanificaiion for the injuries done to our
commerce, the iiurreuder of the Western posts,
an J consequent facility of mniniaining peace with
the Indian tribes, the amicable adjustment of an
old and tedious controversy, and an honorable es-
cape from the dangers and horrors of a foreign
ivar, are great and important advantages, obvious
to every one who has paid any atieniioa to the
The right of the PaGstnaifT, by and with the
advice and consent of the Senate, to make Trea-
ties, is a principle clearly deflnen by (he Oonsti
tution. Not a single power delegated by the Con
- . = - Con-
any one branch of the Ojvernment
defined in lerms more eiplieil, or less liable to be
misnndertlood, than those which define the Trea-
ty-making power of the United States ; and, du-
ring the whole course of the former and present
debate!^ Mr. F. observed, he had not been able to
raise a doubt in his own mind on the subject. The
Treaty under consideration had been duly made
and ratified by the proper authority, constituted
for this purpose by the people of the tfniled Slates:
as such it was now before the Commiitee, and
demanded their serious attention and respect. The
sobject wa.s allowed by all to be of importance.
To bim il appeared more momentous than any
other which, at any time since the establishment
of the Oovernment, had engrossed the attention
of Congress. He viewed it not as a question of
peace or war only, but as involving questions of
far greater magnitude. He meant the present
unexampled prosperity of this country, our politi-
cal happiness, our excellent Oonsiitution, and,
probably, in \t^ consequeneea, the exiatence of the
national Oovernment.
He coneluiied, by observing that, impressed ai
he was with these ventiments, he could not hesi-
tate a moment to vote for the proposition on the
table, and he hoped a mnjoriiy of the Committee
-would be of the nme opinion.
Hr. KiToaau. nid, he could throw no new tisht
npon the aobject under discossion ; he wished
onlytoezpreia a few ideas which woold lead him
Pandora, which was to scatter evils of every bind
upon the land. He believed there were stipu-
lations in favor of the United States, an well as in
farororOreal Britain; and when the Ministers
□f the two nations enter Into contract, it must be'
expected thai iitiputalions wilt be agreed lo OD
each side which wiil not (ippear perfectly satis-
factory lo either, as certain concessions must be
made on both sides.
Id mention only the probable conse-
quences of rejecting the Treaty. The dioposilioo
of the two nations towards eacb other at the time
if entering into negotiation was well known. The
poliaiioDs and injuries done to the American ves-
sels had wound up American resentment to the
highest pitch. Happily for America, Britain saw
cause tochan5e her svatem of aggression. He be-
lieved, with some other gentlemen, that Brilaia
lad not only formed ibe plan of crushing the
ising liberties of Prance, but also of extending her
news to America ; but, from a reverse of fortune,
ihe found it necesMry lo employ all her resources
against France, There was aaolher thing, the
people of England were clamorous on aecouni of
the injuries done to the vessels of Americai ihey
were seen lo be unjust, and were publicly repro-
bated. These circuinslances were favorable to
negotialioo, and ne believed ihey could at no
e have got a better Treaty, than at the time
the present was agreed upon.
He said, Ihey had onl/ihree alternatives. Ei-
ther losiveaid to the Treaty, continue to bear
the insults of Greai*Britain, or el^e to determine
resolutely on the dernier resort, war.
First, as to giving aid to the Treaty. Every
genltemao had tormed bis own conclusions on the
subject. Was it poasible that ihey could submit
to the continued depredations of the British ? If
they did so, should they be in a better situalioa
than the Treaty would put them into. He be-
lieved not; and therefore he thought it best to
give aid to the Treaty. By this Treaty they
thouldalso have peace with the Indians; but if it
: the reMlntion i
was rejected, war the most grievous' to our fron-
tier might be expected to coniinue. If the nation
went to war, the gauntlet was thrown, and til
was risked upon the decision. They were not now
bound by that duty to go to war, which bound
them in their war loi independence. They were
yet in infancy, and a war would increase their
debts, reduce (heir strength, destroy their com-
merce, and leave too mucn to the chance of war,
to say nothing of the horrors attendant on auch a
state.
He believed it would, therefore, be much the
best to make provixion for the Treaty.' It was
difficult to bring forward any argument which
had notalready been urged. One thing had been
brought forward which he thought illusory, that,
if Ihey did not carry the Treaty into effect, recom-
pense would be made for the losses of iheir mer-
chants by Gtovernmeot. He should think himself
criminal if he were to agree toan^ such thing. If
thejf were to indemnify them, an mquiry ir— * "■-
form. I institated into the exact a
„ Of1«
TClM
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IWiS
umf^mo¥i)o»&dm^
B.orR.l
Bxtcutim of Mrituh TVeo^.
t^ tho«ight merchaiitB might u well call i
uigni to make govd losies sustained by itorm
TPhis idea, therefore, ought not to be held o
mercbanti, as he was of apiaioo, Qor«rDnieot
irould never agree to such a propo^itioo. He
could not say anything ia respect lo the proba-
bility of getting the smouuC of the spoliations from
Great Britain ; she had said as much as she could,
and he believed it would be best to see whether
she would not perform her promises.
The ((eotlemen from North Carolina and Vii
^nia, [Mr. Holland and Mr. Moore,] declined
voting for carrying the Treaty into eSect, because
the powers of that House were involved in the
He said they might as wdl doubt the pow'
._ F speech whilst they were i '"" "" '""
power oT deliberating whilst they
the
of^elibetation. Th^ resolution on the table was
founded upon that right. The majority of that
House would, in all cases, detenaine whether it
bad a deliberative voice or not. If tbef bad not
now possessed the power of deliberating, they
would not have been suffered to have gone on
is their deliberations, but have been caUeo to or-
der. This was, therefore, a complete answer to
that objection ; and if those gentlemen had no
other (Hgeciioas against voting for the Treaty,
ibey must now vole for it.
Mr. E. said, that if he supposed a principle was
lobe sanctioned by carrying into effect the British
Tuaaiy, that that House had not the right to de-
liberate upon the propriety of passing laws to car-
ry into effect all Treaties which came before
tnem, he would also vote against il ; bu
thought no suck thing. He was convinced tliat
tbeynad the power to deliberate, and that they
ought to deliberate, He felt himself under a moral
obngation to vote for the Treaty, because be be-
lieved it for [he good of the United States [bat it
should go into eSecC. He hoped the Committee
This consideration, ne said, otwht to have some
wewht upon them. If they declined giving effect
would concur in giving it
'~' ' ' ' ration, ne si
wewht upon them. Ifiht,
to the Treaty, would it not be said in Great Bri-
tain, that whan a Treatv was made it was biudiuA
on a nation ; and would not the people of that
country be convinced we were to blame, and unite
against usi And, he would ai>k, if the Treaty
Were to Ik rejected, whether the people of the
United States would be united in their opIuioQ)
against ii7 He believed they would noL Hi
believed too many artful insinuations had beer
thrown out anmngsi the people to expect such at
unison of opinion. The situation of the United
States, therefore, wafi infinitely worse prepared for
war than it was two years ago, v»hen every one
i*oined in condemning the conduct of the ^iitisb ;
>Qt at the present, said he, if a war were to take
place, our citizens would be divided against each
^rom these consideraiions, he had been im-
pelled to give his vote for carrying the Treaty
Uto effect. Me hoped it would prove for the good
of the Unipn ; if not, he should acquit himself of
living done what appeared to him the be«t at the
Mr. Gbiswold nid, tbal in his opinion, the ex-
tensive view which toe Committee were taking
of the merits of the Treaty with Great Britain
was unwarranted by the Constitution of the United
States; that he did not believe any part of ih«
Treaty -making power had been defegaied to the
House of Representative*; and that the Commit tee
mightwitbasmuch propriety examine the merits
of the Coustitution iiselr, for the purpose of decid-
ing whether they would execute it or not, a* to
examine the Treaty in ibe manner which had
been adopted in the Committee. He had, on m.
former occasion, delivered bl^ opinions on thalsab-
C' ret, and he wouid not attempt to repeat tbttm ;
ut, since the Committee had thought proper to
take an extensive view of the merits of the Treaty,
he would follow the example which had been sat
him, and submit a few ubservalions upon that
subject — more particularly as he belicvea that no
discussion would prove injurious to that iastro'
m^nt. He should not, however^ attempt to Inke a
very extensive view of the subject, at geutlentm
who had preceded him bad exhaosted »lmott every
part of the subject, and left little to be said at that
period of the cfebate.
Mr. G. said ibe Treaty emhnced thiee {frest
objeeis;
1. The execution of those pailsof theTceatyof
1783, which remained unexecuted;
2. The settlement of dispniei;
3. Stipulations for regulating tbe commercial
and other intercourse between the two nations.
He said that it would be agreed on every side
of tbe House that these objects were important;
and if they had been justly and fairly secured by
the stipulations of the Treaty, it would not be aaid
that tbe Committee ought to feel dinaliiified with
that instrumeu:. He Mlieved that this was really
the case, and that the United State* liad no just
caase to complain of the terms therein eontained.
Several objections, however, had been made to
that part of the Treaty whicfi provided bi the
execution of the Treaty of 1783. It had been said
that this Tieatv did not provide for every pait of
tbe Treaty of Peace which remained unexecuted;
and that conditions were annexed to ibe execution
of those parts of that Treaty which had been pro
vided for highly injurious to tbe interest orthe
United Stales, He said, if those objectiOBS were
well founded, they formed a very serious objoo-
lion to the present Treaty : but he could itot and
them by comparing or examining the two Trea-
ties. The only article of the Treaty of Patca
which il was said had been violated by ibeBriiistL
Government, and was not provided for by the pia-
senl Treaty, was ihatwbicn respected theaegroea
end other property of the American inbabitanta.
He said he would not detain the Committee witb
many remarks on this part of the subject,as it bad
been very fully and ably explained by gentieoMn
who had gone before htm : oe only mentianod it
for Ibe purpose of reading thai jwrt of the Jooraal
of Mr. Adams, one of the Amerman negotiator* o£
tbe peacej which immediately related la iliisMib-
iecL Tbie same Journal had been «lr«adv read
br different gentlemen, ip delacbad pad*, nit b$
.dbyGoogle
aaSTOBT OF CONQfiXSS.
Afbil, 1796.]
Emoution of Briiiih Tnaiy.
Commsnoaers,a( the cloK of the BegotiatioB, had
~re*tT<(fPt
B ivttorMioD of I
wiibed to bring the whole Jonraal at om view
before the Committee. He Mid. however, that he
ought to retWBt wb«t bad been already said on the
floor, that tae aitiele ia qneytioD did not want any
ezleiior aid to aniat the Committee with an ex-
plaiuiiioa. The word* of the article were ceriain
and explicit; they declared that the evacuation
should be made "without carrying away any
n«groeii or other property belouging to the Amer-
ieau iDhabitanisi" aitd asit was univeraally agreed
that the negroes who had been carried away eon-
■teted either of those who bad &ed from their mas-
tcTsdnriDg the war, on a promise of etnaacipatioo,
or of those who bad been taken ae plunder in the
patiod of hostility, no doubt could exist hut thai
m all those cases the property in the negroes was
ofaanged^ that they were no longer the property
of American inhabitants, and of oonne tbat it was
no TiolaiioD of the Treaty to carry them away.
And whatever might hare unee been said on that
■nbject, he was coovinced that the American
r. : . .1...1 '-'— -™tietion,had
If Peace a sti^
egroes theo m
the poesession of the British army. To. evince
this &et, he eaid ke woul4 now read the Journal
be bad before alluded to. [He read some pan-
gisphs from that Journal.]
Mr. G. aaid that it appeared, from the JooTnal
be bsd read, on what groond the negotiation
respecting the negroes stood. The Brituh agent
claimed a restitution of confiscated estates. To
lebat this demand, the American Commisstoners,
among other things, claimed, compeasation for
negroes and other property which had been taken
as plunder in diffeteni peiluds of the war. Find-
ii^, however, that noagrermeat could be obtained
oa these contested points, they were all reliu'
quisked as impnclioable ; and the elaim forite-
grovs, which had bean made for do other purpose
than to rebut the claim for confiscated estaies, was
nreo up of coooe, andj at the moment of signing
Um Treaty, the article id qnealioa was inserted —
DM to secure a reslitutioa of property which bad
ba«a ehaoged by the ereats of the war, but to
seeare, by stipalalioa, that the eracimtioDS shMild
be nade witboai any deeiruction, or carrying away
property really belongiog to the American inhab-
itants- He said that it bad oltnys been a matter
of surprise to htm that any geotletnan had put
a diCTercDt eoastractioo on tbis article i and he
tbought the patties bail done wisely in noluding
ffOfU the preseiu Treaty a elatra wbidi did not
poases* erea the shadow of justice.
Mr. O. said, that in respect to the iajnrions oc
dilions which it had been said were annexed ._
the DToviaion for executing the other articles of
tbe Treaty of Peace, he was oUiged M declare that
tboM oDoditioDs which had beea ccnnplained of,
aod which ware ai»exed to the surrender of the
poall^ were ia Lis opinion, if they might -be called
csnditioMi highly adrentageous to tbe Uaited
Stataa. and were cooditiMi* which ihia Ooreni'
isaivt Itself wauU have dictated, had we possaeed
tbe power. He carUiaW did not wU the regn-
IMWM Kaspecting tbe Nottbcm froaiiar altered
Tbe most liberal and advairtafeoDS Inlerconrse is
opened between the United States and the Pro-
vinces of Canada ; the wbtde for trade (the capi-
tal part of which lies within the British territory)
is thrown open to the enterprise of out merchants ;
the chaoDels are opened for eupptying the Britbh
settlements, through tbe UaileaBtates^witfaeverr
species of goods, not entirely prohibited, whica
the consamptioa of that country may demand, and
'bich can be so easily furnished by means of oar '
inland naviralion.
The Etipiilations in feror of the British settlers ■
i^inein ineTicinity of the posts, Mr. Q. said, were
highly reasonable, and, he did not doubt, would
promote tbe interest of this Ooveromenl. Those
settlers were not lo be stripped of their property,
and sent naked ont of the country ; they were not
to be compelled to leaTe their old habitstions and
seek newihelter on tbe overside of tbe Lakes;
IT were they to be compelled to become citizens
of a Government which they did not approve.
They were led lo eojoy the property which they
possessed, with the liberty ofehoosiiig the Oovern-
ment to which they would owe allegiance. By
this conduct the United Stales will gain many
important advantages. Tbe liberality and justice
of the stipulation will conciliate the feelings of
the British trhdeia and convert their inflnenee
with the Indian tribes to cnr advantage; and, by
retaining them witbia our owa jnriBdiciion, we
shall possess a surety for their good behaviour, in
the casiody of their persons, families, and estates.
A difierent conduct might have been attended with'
serio<n evils. If this Government bad forced the
British settlers to the other side of the Lakes, tfaeif
influence with tbe Indians would hsve been
retained, and tbeii passions stimulated with disap-
pointment and revenge.
ObjectioBS, said Mr. O., have been made to the
article which relates to the British debts. It was
said that this article is opposed to the Constin^
tion, inasmoob as it erects a tribunal for detar-
minmg claims which infringes tbe power of iba
Judicial Courts ; that the mode of proceeding pra-
scribed to that tribunal exposes the United Stales
to great and nnneeessary losses, inasmuch as it
enables the Commissioners to admit testimony
now excluded by the CoeimoD-Law Courts, and
to decide claims on the broad basis of justice with-
out respecting statutes of limitation which may
have run during the exiatenee of legal 4nifad»J
menta. In answer to such objections, he wonid
only revaark, that tbe power et the Commnsloa-
era did not interfere with any Judicial Court ; if
did not embrace an authority to d^ide contra-
versie* between individoals; its iurisdiclioa was
limited to controrereies between Uie two natioM
with wbieh individuals bad noihing to do, and
could extend only to thoee disputes where tka
events of law could afford no relief. The debHr
who was protected by a statute of limitatioa, or
by a foilnre of Commmi-Law testimony, could not
be affected by the decision of ike CowmissioaeiT]
those decisions cenld Bot be gireti la criilunt
inst kiai, or stipply any defest in tostinMoy, m
aflia'"'—
a0uiwtaiBi,or'St
rMief agabist a el
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
pR.J
Execution of BritM TVenty.
Hedid not know what tbe ■mauni of debia might
be which had been lost bj reawD of thoM legal
impedimenu which had existed agviost their legal
recovery ; be abould regret as much as aoy man
the iiiii>roitu[ie of ipToiTJng this country in the
payment of large iiutns on thii aecouot ; but the
magoiiude of tbe !iam could form do objection in
hia minii to the justice of the stipulation. He said
thai the Gieaeral Government, irom the nature of
iueotablishnient, had become answerable to foreign
nations for every fault of the Stale QoreruiDenls.
To the General Goremment alone must foreign
nation* look for compensation for losses or TioFa-
tloo of Treaiies; and, if the Slate Qorernments
bad, in any caces, suffered legal impediments to
remain in the way of the recovery of just debts,
and in consequence of iheae impediments the
claims of creditors bad been delayed, and the
Common-Law evidence to support such claims
lost by the delay, or statutes of limitation had run
t^[Binst them, he hoped it nonld never be said iliai
ibe Government should avail ilself of those cir-
cumstances. This would be persevering in the
tame line of injustice — first, to violate a compact
by delaying a claim until the evidence of the claim
is lout, or a stB;ute of limitation had run againi-t it,
and then to avail ouradves of the defence which
ouf owD injustice bad created. He believed thai
gentlemen could not seriously imagine that sach
conduct could be justified ; and. although it might
be true tbal this Government would, to a certain
ejtent, be exposed to unfounded claims in conse-
quence of this article, yet it ought to be remem-
bered that we had brougnt this upon our own heads
by violating tbe Treaty of 1763 in respect to those
debts, and we ought not at this period to refuse
justice, becatue by doing justice we should expose
onrselves to partial misTortunei. He said, that
tbe principles on wbicb tbe Commissioners were
to diecide, were such as must meet the approba-
titm of every honest man — such' as this Govern-
ment ou^hi not to shrink from; they were the
bioad principles of justice, which ought to regu-
late the conduct of nations towards each other.
Under tbe head of disputes, two things were
JBclnded — the settlement of boundaries, and the
■eltlement of claims for mercantile losses. To the
MipulalioDs rrspecling the first of these objects, no
lAiieetion had been made; and in respect to the
■ccond. be thought tbe tenas equally unexcep-
...S
be josiified by tbe Law of Nations, whilst a great
proportion were made in direct violation of our
BeiUrality. It was apparent thai discriminations
miui be made between these cases. For the first
tbe British Government were not answerable,
and Ibt tbe last they had agreed to account. To
ueertain tbe facts and make the discrimination,
no mode could with justice be devised more favor-
able to tbe United States than the one stipulated
by tbe Treaty. The British Qovemmenl had
gmie as &r as we could require ; we were not coa-
eluded bv the deeiaitmaor their Coart* ; our claims
were itill open to tha cxuninatimt of tbe Com-
miasioners, who were to decide every elain on
Ibe principles of "equity, justice, anil the Law of
Nations." What other principles of decision gen-
tlemen wanted, be could not imagine. For bit
part, he was contented with those he had named;
and believing as he did that the Commixsionen
would he men of integrity, he could not doubt tbe
propriety of their decisions.
Mr. O. said, that in respect to that pert of the
Treaty which was strictly of a commercial naiure,
he would make no remarks; he did not pretei>d
to be a commercial man, and, if he had been,^eD-
tlemeu thoroughly acquainted with the subject
had fully explained it; but, he wonld ask the
indulgence of tbe Committee, while he madej
few remarks upon two of the temporary anicles.
Objections, he said, bad been roede to tbe 18tb
article. Il bad been said that this article enlarges
the list of contraband ^oods.aod gives to the Bri-
tish nation the right ot iteizing our provisiaa sbina
under circumstances where do seizure wonld be
justified by the Law of Nations. He thought nei-
ther of these objections were well founded. It was
true that ihe article in question did include a longer
list of contraband goods than wa^ included in some
Tr^ealies, but it was likewise true that it did not
inchideso mao^ articles as wereconcained in other
Trealies; and it was equally true that the Law of
Nations had left the subject of contraband goods
without any specified definition, and thai, under
the general description of contra band ^oods, every
article enumerated in this Treaty was included.
He was surprised to hear gentlemen say that
any power (unauthorized by the Law of Nations)
was given to the British Government over the
provision-iibips of the United Stales. If gentle-
men would attend to the 18th article of the Treaty,
they must be satisfied that the Law of Nations
was meliorated in favor of neutrality, and that tbe
provisions of ibe United States were^ader noeii^
cumstances, liable to conSscation. The two last
sections of that article related Immediatelf to this
point ; the first of these two expressly stipniates
that articles not generell? contraband by the Law
of Nations, but which from particular circam-
siances became so. and for that reason were to be
seized, shall not be confiscated, bot the owners
theretn shall he speedily and completely indemni-
fied. It is a principle universally understood, thai
provisions are not generally CQninband, and caa
only become so from particular circumstance*.
Of course, in respecl lo provisions, il is expressly
stipulated thatwneneTer they become eoalraband
according to the existing Law of Nations, and sball
for that reason be seized, they shall not be confis-
cated. The last section respects a ship tailing to
a blockaded port, without knowing the same to b«
blockaded. And here, again, the stipulation is in
favor of neutrality. The ship is to be turned away,
but cannot be detained, nor her cargo (if not con-
traband) confiscated, unless after notice dt« shall
again attempt to enter. It may be asked, what
s&dl be done with a provision-«nip attempting to
enter a blockaded port after notice, there being no
express stipulation on this point 1 He said tlui a
vmmI wider tbeae eircnmalances conld noi be eiw
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Execution of BritUh TrttOy.
fH.o
fiscaied. tMCadse such nmeaiurv would be directly
opposM to the nrecediog stipulation, as the car^o
of the Tessel did not coDsisl or anicles generelTy
contraband, but of such m became so froni parii-
!□ bis opinion, the vessel
under such circumstBDces might be seized, detained,
and disposed of, in the manner stipulated by (he
preceding section, and the owner must be spMdity
and completely indemnified.
The other temporary article on which he would
■abmjt a few obnervaiions, was Itiat which re-
stricted the subjects or citizens of the two nations
from committing acts of hostility against each
other, and declared, (bat if any vunject or '''~
Sany vessel to act as a
er party, such subject or
3 a pirate. To his sur-
prise, );pntlem en had objected to this stipulation —
An article which vas found in every other Treaty
existing between (he United Stales and foreign
naiions — an article founded on the principles of
justice and humanity — and which ough( to be
included in all Treatjes, end merited his warmest
approbation.
Mr. Q. said that he would ask the indulgence
of the Committee while be made a few remarks
on one other of the permanent articles in the
Treaty. It was that which respected lands now
held by the subjects or citizens of the one par(y
in tbe ierri(ory of tt\e other. Doubts have been
suggested as to the eztent of this article. It had
been said that the stipulation of the article would
reatore confiscated estates, and revive titles which
had been lost by alienage. He ihongbt, if scn-
iJcmen would attend (o the words of the article,
they wonld be satisfied that their fears were un-
founded; (he expressions were, "who now hold
land," Dot " who have held land." Tbe import
of these words had been very accurately defined
bv the gentleman from Booth Carolina [Mr.
Hirpeh] yesterdav.
Thev could onfy relate to ezistinr titles, and
could nave no eflccl on titles which bad been
lost by confiscation, alienage, or by other causes.
He said there were, at this time, in both countries,
lands which were now held by tlje subjects or cit-
izens of the other. In the State from whence he
came, lands were held by British subjects; they
were held before the Revolution, anif had never
been confiscated ; iber% were likewise instances
of lands held in Gr^at Britain by the citizens of
the United Btates— lands which had descended
before the American war, nod now continued vest-
ed in tbe owners. These lands could be sold, but
they could not descend to the heirs of the present
proprietors, who woulu bealiensat the lime when
the descent shonld be cast, and could not take.
But gentlemen will sorely not object to (he secu-
rity given by this Treaty to the present proprie-
lon of bnd. Those lands were boneslly (heirs,
and it is certainly just and reasonable that they
thoald be secured in (heir rights.
Me said, he wonld take up no further time in re-
marking Dpon the merits of the Treaty ; he was
penoaded, if iIm Committt* *wovU candidly ex-
, ley ^
propriety ; and if the House did in reality possess
(hat power which had been claimed, of ratifying
and rejecting Treaties, they would not refuse
their assent to the Treaty in question. But if
gentlemen will reflect on the consequences which,
under present circumatances, most await a vio-
lation of the Treaty, they cannot hesitate on this
He knew that gentlemen had said that every
consideration of tlie consroueoces which must
flow from a rejecti'in of tbe Treaty was improper,
<and, in its nature, an address to the fears of the
Committee, and an attempt to excite an improper
alarm. He did not understand such expressions.
He had never heard, on any other occasion, (bat
a Legislature were to adopt a measure, regardless
of consequences. He had always supposed (hat it
was highly important to know what (tie probable
consequences of meajtures wonld be, before they
were adopted, end being still of the same opinion,
he should take the liberty of staling to the Com-
mittee what he believed would be ine effect of vi-
olating the Treaty, without fearing to be charged
with iTie name of a terrorist.
Mr. Q. said, he could hardly imagine that any
gentleman would seriously support the opinion
which had been delivered on that floor, *' that, in
case the present Treaty was r^ected, a new En-
voy mizht be sent to Qreat Britain, and a new
Treaty immediately concluded." He wished the
gentleman who had advanced this opinion would
inform the Committee how this business was to
be done. Were the House of Representatives to
send an Envoy on this errand, he believed (hat
no gentleman had become mad enough to propoaa
(his expedient. It must be agreed that no depart-
ment in this Oovemment can appoint an Envoy
but tbe Executive. The appointment must be
made by the PaEaiDENT. And with what face
can he do this t He has already told us, said Mr.
G., that the power of makinfc Treaties la exclu-
sively vested in the Presidbnt, with the consent
and advice of the Senate, and that a Treaty thus
made becomes the law of tbe land ; end it can
hardly be expected that the reasons which have
been delivered in this House will convince th«
PBEaiDBjrr of any error in bis opinion, or that h«
would send an Envoy to tbe Court of London to
say so. What instructions, (hen, can the Pres(-
DENT give to his Minister, if he should gratify th«
wishes of gentlemen, and send one to Europe?
He must instruct him to say to the British Court,
that he had taken tbe Constitution of tbe United
States for his guide in tbe former negotiation ;
that he then believed, and still believed, that tha
power of making Treaties was exclusively vested
in tbe PaEStDENT and Senate; that the Senate
passed (he same opinion ; that, under these imprM-
sion^ be had completed and ratified the Treaty,
and, in the last artMie of that initrament, had so-
lemnly pledged the faith of his country for (he o^
servaoce of the Tmiy ; but that the House of Re-
presentatives, for some eauae or other, wonM not
execHte tbe Treaty with good hilh, and had
elaiiiied a power of wteUoBUic TnMies by Ut,
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Il«&
HISTOBY OF CONGe£S&
1184
H.orK.]
EMCutiim ^ BrMA TYeatf.
wUcbj in hii opiaioD, was aDwammUd by the
ConUitulioB i but, ax the Hooae of Reprcsenu-
tLr«a were not pleased with the Treaty already
concluded, he had sent his Eavoy to make ano-
iker, which he hoped would please them better.
Can any gentleman imagine that the Phmidght
or TflaUiiiTED States will prostrate his charac-
ter by a CDoduct so shameful as this muxt be 7 Or
can it be believed that the British nation would
cooient to Defoliate with a Ooremment quarrel-
ling with itself respecting the powers of its tere-
ral deparlmenttJ He believed (hat no geoile-
m** eould be found ia the Commillee serioudy
to imagineanytbine of this nature could uke place.
Ua wiabed g«nueiDeD, under these circumstait-
ces, to pjuse, and seriously inquire what conse-
quence* must probably result from such a state of
Uiiapl We have, said Mr. G., serious dispute*
and important claims oa the British Government.
The nature of lbs thingadmitsof but three modes
of settlement. We must settle ou disputes by oe-
gotiatiim, we must tamely submit to the injuries
we have received, and to others which will awsil
W^ we must satisfy our demands by war.
The possibility of the first expedient will be ex-
chided by a violation of the present Treaty. The
second, he believed, to be loo disgraceful to meet
the approbatiw of the American mind. The peo-
ple of this country would sol put up with the in-
jwies they had already received; but, if tbey
should tamely submit to past indignities, what se-
csaity can they receive against the fulare 1 It is
a feet well known that tiie freebooters in the West
Indies cannot he restrained by their own Govern
neni ; they qpeoulnte on peace and on war, and
the moment they find the present Treaty reject-
ed, and all hope of fuiuie aegotiation at an end,
tbey will sweep the ooeaii of the piopeny of our
pMrehwais, and find do <lifficuliy in procuring
in their Colonial Courts deoiees of condemna-
ttm. Hr. a. said that he had no idea that
Qreai Britain would declare war against this Go-
Tenument in conseqaeiiee of the rejeetioa of the
Tstaly; bulwhen those unauthorized depredations
on our eommtrce look place, which must follow
the MJeetion of it, he firmly believed that, whether
Mitfaorized by Qovemment or not, America would
make reprisals, the certain consequence of which
must be war.
Considering the subject in these points of view,
Ik had no hesitation in saying the reaoluiion on
the table ought to be adopted.
Mr. Qallatin said be would not fi^ow some
of the genilemea who bad preceded him, by
dwelling npoo the discretion of the Legislature—
a question which had already been the subject of
Mtr deliberation, and been decided bf a solemn
Tolc Gcatlemen who bad been ja the minority
<« that question might give any constrociion
(hey pleased lo the declaratory lesoluiion of the
House ; tbey nighl again repeal that, to refose to
oury the Treaty iaio affect, was a breach of tlie
paUie faith, which they aonoaired aebeing ple^
•d by the Pbmhpht aad aeuue. This had haea
(be gronsd on which a difference ef ayinian had
ewsted stBoe ihB befisBMg «f ib« "
was because the House thought the faith ot the
ostitui could not, on those sutyects submitted to the
power of Congress, be pledgea by any constituted
authority other than the Legislature, that thej
had resolved that, in all snch cases, it was their
right and duty to consider the expediency of car-
rying a Treaty into effecL If the Hoiue thought
the taitb of the naiion already pledged, they could
not claim any discretion ; there would be no room
left to deliberate npontbeexpediency of the thing.
The resolution now under consideration was
merely " that it vras expedient lo carry the Brit-
ish Treaty into effect," and not whether they were
bound by national faith to doit. He would, there-
fore, consider the question of expediency alone:
and, thinking as he did, that the House hod full
discreticm on the subject, he conceived that there
was as much responmbilily in deciding in the af-
fiimalive as in rejecting the resolution; that they
would be equally answerable forthecoiueqaences
that might follow from either.
It was, however, true that there was a great
difference between the situation of this country in
the year 1794. when a negotiator. w«a appointed,
and that in which we were at present; and that
conseonences wonld follow the rafusal to carry
into effect the Treaty in its pceaent stage, which
would aot have attended a refusal to negotiate,
and to enter into such a Treaty. The qoestioa
of expediency, therefore, assumed before them a
different and more complex shape than when bt-
foie the n^otiator, the Senate,or the FaEeiDKErr.
The Treaty, in itself, and abstractedly considered,
might be injurious; it might be such an instra-
ment as, in the opinioD of the Houae^ ought not to
have been adopted by the Executive; and yel,
such as it was, they migbi think it expedient, un-
der the present circumstances, to carry it into ef-
fect. He wouM, therefore, first take a view of
the provisions of the Treaty i^elf, and in the nest
place, supposiog it ijgsrious, consider, in case it
was not carried into effect, what would beihens-
lural consequences of such refusoL
The provisions of the Treaty lelate either to the
adjustment of paet differences or to the future in-
tercourse of the two nalions- The differences
now existing between Great Britain and this
country arose either from the non-execution of
some articles of the Treaty of Peace, or from the
effects of the present £uropean wlr. The com-
plaints of Britain in relation to the Treaty of
1783 were confined to the t«^l impedimenU
thrown by the several States in the war of the re-
coverv oT British debts. The late Tmiy had
provined adequate remedy on that sutjeci; the
United Stales were bound to make full and com-
plete compensation (br any lossesaiiiicg from that
source, and every ground of complaintoa the put
of Gieat Britain was removed.
Having thus done full justice lo the other na-
tion, America had a right to expect that equal at-
teotioD should be paid lo her claims arising from
infractions ol the Treaty of Peace, viz: compen-
satioa for the negroes carried aw^y by the Bdi-
ishi restoration, of the W«steu{iMt«,a«d imicoi-
ni£c«iioa fpi i^m deuutioo.
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1185
mB'tfmr op cotrntasm.
nm
AftiL, 1798.]
Eaxetatm of BriOth TVrafy.
[H.c
On the aubject of the flnt claim, wbieh hftd
been objected to as groundlcM, he would obsfirre,
that he was not satisfied lliat the constraclion
given br the British QoTernment to that article
of the Treaty wa» jastified even by the letter of
the article. That construction rested on the snp-
posilioD that slavea cHma nnder the general de-
QominatioQ of booty, and were alienated the mo-
ment tbev fell in' the possewiioa of an enemy, so
that all those who were in the hands of the Brit-
ish when the TreMy of Peace was signed, must
be considered as British, and not American pro-
perty, and w^re not included in the anicle. It
womd however appear, by recnrriog to Vattel,
when speaking of the right of poitlimimum. that
slaves were not considered as part of the bMly
which was alienated by the act of capture, and
that they were ranked rather with reaf property,
to the profits of which ooly the captors were en-
titled. Be that as it may, there was no doubt that
'""e cOQstrnciioDgi7en by America was that which
had been understood by the parties at the time of
niakinglhe Treaty. The joumalsofMr. Adami
quoted by a gentleman from Connecticut, [Mi
CoiT,] proved this f\i)ly ; for when he says that
the insertion of this article was alone worth the
journey of Mr. Laarens fromLondon, caniibe sup-
posed that he would have laid so much stress on
a clause which, according to the new construc-
tiownow attempted to be given, meant only thai
the British would commit no new act of hostili-
ty ? would not carry away slaves at that time
in possession of Americans 1 Congress had re-
cognised that construction by adopting the rew-
tucion which bad been already quoted, aod which
was introduced upon themotionof Mr. Alexander
Hamilton; and it had not been denied that the
British Ministry, during Mr. Adams's embassy,
had also agreed to it.
But when our negotiator had, for the sake of
O waived that claim ; when he had also aban-
the right which America had to demand
an indemnification for the detention of the poxU,
although he had conceded the right of a similar
nature, which Great Britain had for the deten-
tion of debt; when he had thus given up every
thing which mi^ht be supposed to be of a doabt-
fu! nature, it might have beenhoped that our last
claim — a claim on which there was not and there
never had been any dispute — the Western posts
should have been restored according to the terms
of the Treaty of Peace. Upon what ground the
British had insisted, and our negotiator conceded,
that this late restitution shonlu be saddled with
newconditions, which madeno part of the original
contract, Mr. G. was it a loss to know. British
traders were all allowed^ by the new Treaty, to
remain within the posts without becoming citizens
of the United States, and lo carry on trade and
commerce with the Indians liTing witliin our
boundaries, without being subject to any eootrol
from our Goveiament. In vain was it said, that
if that clause had not been inserted we would
have found it our inleresl to efiect it by one own
lawe. Of this we were atone competent judges;
if that condition was harmlesi at present, it was
not ponible ta foresee whether, midet ftunre ett-
cnmstanees, it would not prove highly isjurioiu;
and, whether harmless or not, It was not leM K
permanent and new condition imposed upon da.
But the foct was, that by the iotroduction of that
clause, by obliging ds to keep within Out juriadie-
tion^as British subjects, the very men who had bent
the insimments aired by Qreat Britain to promote
Indian warson our frontiers, by obliging as tosaSfcr
those men to continue (heir commerce.wtth Indians
living in our territory, nncontrolied by those rcgn-
latlons, which we bad thought necessary, in ordsr
to retitrain our own citizens in their interconnw
with these tribes Great Britais had preserved her
full influence witti the Indian nations ; by a restora-
tion of the posts under that condition, we had lost
the greatest adrantage that was expected from '
their possession, viz: fnture security against the
Indians. In the same manner had the British pre-
served the commercial advantages which resnlt-
ed fW)m the occupancy of these posts, by stipulat-
ing as a permanent condition a free passage fOi
their goods across our portages, without paying
any dnty.
Another article of the new Treaty, which wu
connected wi th the provisions of the Treaty of 17B8,
deserved consideration — be meant what related to
the Mississippi. At the lime when the navigation
of that river to its mouth was, by the Treaty of
Peace, declared to be common to both aationa,
Great Britain had communicated to America a
right, which she held by virtue of the Treaty of
1763, aud as ownerof theFloridas; but since that
cession to the United 8tate«, England bad ceded
to Spain her claim on the Ploridas, and did not
' the present time an inch of ground, either
of the Treaty of 17B3, it was to Spain and Ame-
ricKj and not to England and America, that the
navigation of the Mississippi was at present to h«
common. Yet, notwithstanding that change of
circamstances, we had repeated that article of the
former Treaty in the late one, and hadnranted to-
Crreat Britain the additional privilege or usingoor
ports on the eastern side of the river, wltliout
which, as they owned no land thereon, they could
not have navigated it. Nor was this all. Upon
a supposition that the Mississippi did not ex-
tend so far northward as to be interacted by a
line drawn due west from the Lake of the Woods, "
or, in other words, upon a supposition that Great
Britain had not a claim even to touch the Missis-
sippi, we had agreed, not upon what would be the
boundary line, but that we wonld hereafter nego-
tiate to settle that line.
Thns leaving to future negotiatitm what should
have been finally settled by the Treaty itself, la
the same manner as all other diflTerences were, wa»
calculated for the sole purpose either of laying
the foundation for future disputes, or of recognis-
ing a claim in Great Britain on The waters of the
Miisissippi, even if their boundary line left to the
southward the sources of that river. Had not
ibat been the intention of Great Britain, the line
would have been settled at once by the Treaty,
.dbyGoogle
EOSTOBT OF C(»faB£BS.
H.<irU.J
Mhxaaim of BriUfh TVeaif.
[AF■t^ 1796.
aecordiof to eilh«[ of the two ooly ratiooal war*
(Jdaiog IE in coDjbrmitr to the Treair of 1783,
that is to Uf , by agreeing that the line would run
ftom the northernmost source of the Miniasippi
cither directly to the western exiremiiy of the
Lake of the Woods, or aorthwardly till it inter-
seeled the. lioe lo be drawn due west from (bat
Uke. But by repealing the article of the Treaty
of 1783 ; by conceding the free use of our ports on
the ri?er, and by the in.sertioo of the 4tb arti-
cle, we had admitted that Great Britain, in all
possible events, had still a right to narigate that
river from its source to its mouth. What might
be the future eSecta of those pronsions, especially
as they regarded out intercourse with Spain, it
was at present impossible tossy; but, although
they could bring us uo advantage, they might em-
broil us with that uatioD. and we bad already felt
the effect of it in our late Treaty with Spain,
since we were obliged, on account of ibat clause
of the British Treaty, to accept as a gift and fa-
vor the nnvioation of'tfaat river, which we had till
lluD cUumed as a right.
The seventh article of the Treaty was in-
tended to adjust those differences which arose
from the effects of the preseat Elurapeao war.
On that article, it might also be observed, that
wbibt it provided a full compeasatton for the
claims of the British, it was worded in such a
manoer, when speaking of the indemnificatioD
for spoliations committed on the American com-
merce, as would render it liable to a construction
very unfavorable to our just claims on that
ground. The Commissioners to be appointed by
virtue of that article, were to take cognizance,
and to grant redress only in those cases where, by
reason of irregular or illegal captures or con-
demoBiions made- under color of authority or
commissions from the King of Great Britaia,
totset had been incurred, and where adequate
Qompeniation could not now be actually obtained
by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings-
It Great Britain should insist that, since the
signing of tbe Treaty, tbey had, bv admitting ap-
Ceals to their Superior Cuuris BRorded a redress
jr the ordinary course of judicial proceedings;
if those Courts were to declare, that the captures
complained of, were neither illegal nor made un-
der color, but by virtue of authority or commis-
siooa from the Kingj and if that construction
should prevail with tiie Commissioners, the in-
demnification which our plundered raerchanut
would actually receive, in consequence of the
provisions of this article, would fall very tarshort
of their expectations and of their iusi claims.
Yet that article, considering the relative situa-
tion of tbe two countries, at the time when the
negotiation took place, var as much as could rea-
sonably have been expected by America. When
a weak nation had to contend with a powerful
one, it was gaining a great deal if the national
honor was saved even by the shadow of an in-
demnification, and by an apparent concession on
the part of the aggressor ; and however objec-
tionable that article might appear at firat view,
he
11 uu the whole snUilied with it.
The remaining proviaions of tbe Treaty had
DO connexion with past diflerences ; tbey nuide
no part of the Convention which bad been the
avowed object of Mr. Jay's mission ; they applied
solely to tbe future intercourse of the two natious
as relating to commerce and uavigatiua j and
had they been entirely omitted, our diffcreuces
would have betn nevertheless adjusted. It was
agreed on alt hands, that so tar ak related to out
commerce with Great Britain, we wanted no
Treaty. The intercourse, although useful per-
haps to both parlies, was more immediately uecen-
sary to England and her own interest was a suf-
ficient pledf^e of her granting us at all limes a
perfect tibtrty of commerce to her Eurupean
ports. If we want to treat with her, it mu.-.I be
10 order to obtain some intercourse with her col-
onies, and some general security in out navigK-
The twelfth and thirteenth articles had been
obtained by our negoiiatoi with a view to the
first object. Tae twelfth article, however, which
related to our iniercoutae with the WeU todies,
was found, upon examination, to he accompanied
by a restriction of such a nature, that what had
been granted by Orent Britain as a favor, was re-
Jecteif by the Senate as highly injurious. T.ie
thiriuenlb article, which related to the East In-
dies, and remained pari of the Treaty, was, like
the twelfth, conferring a favor limited by resiric-
tioDR, and so fat as he could dtpend upon ihe
opinion of the best-informed judges on thai sub-
ject, those restrictions put the trade in a more
disadvantageous situation than it was betoic the
Treaty. As the West India article had declared
that we should not re-txporl any prod uce of those
i.slandi to Europe, so ttie East India article, at
the same time it granted us tbe ptivjle^, which
we enjoyed before, and which we enjoyed be-
cause it was the interest of the Cjstlndia Com-
pany to grant it to us, that of being admitted in
tbe British seaports there, had lorbidden our car-
rying any articles from thence to any place ex-
cept to America; which regulation amauDted to
a total prohibition lo export East India ariicles lo
China, or to obtain freJKhts back to Buropei and,
upon the whole, he could not help thinking, from
what bad lallen on that R-iai, and what he had
heard elsewhere ft-om gentlemen of great com-
mercial knawledgt. that if the Eust India Cr^m-
merce had been as generally understood in Ame-
rica a:t the West India trade, that so much bua.'-lrd-
of article would have met (he same fate in tbe
Senate with tbe twelfth article.
But if^ leaving commercial regulations, we ^pere
to seek ID the Treaty fcr some provisioii securing
to us tbe free uavigution of the osean against aay
future aggressions on our trade, where wen- ihcy
to be found 1 Ilf cuuld add nolhiiig to wliai had
been said on tne suhjoct of contraband articles :
it wa^ indeed, self-evident, that connecting our
T.eaty with England on that subject with thoM
we bad made with other nation*, it Amounted to
■X positive cumpact to supply that nuliuii exrlu-
war. Had the list ufcontrabaud artiule^i b.;(:u r>;-
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1189
mSTOBT OF CONGBEBS.
Awi^lTM.]
ExtculioH ef Britiah TVeofy.
duMd, had iwrkl atom and pronnons — our two
great ■UpUcMnmodities — beea declared not to be
coDtrabaDd, secariijr would luve been given to
the free exportation of our produce ; but iaatead
of anjr prorision haTiag been made oiribat bead,
an article of a most doubtful nature, and on
whicb be would remark afterwards, bad been in-
troduced. But he meaal, for the present, to con-
fine hii obaerTatiODs to the importanl qucstian of
free bottoms making free ttooda. It was with tbe
atrnoit aslonuhment he bad beard Ibe doctrine
adraneed on this floor, that such a proviaion, if
admitted, would prore iojurioui to America, inas-
much as, ia case of war between this country and
any othw nation, the goods of that uatioa might
be protected by ibe Euslish flag. It was uot to a
atate of war ibat the MDefils of that prori^ion
would extend; but it was tbe only security whicb
neutral nations could bare against tbe legal plun-
dering on the high seas, so ol^en committed by
belligeient Powers, I( was not for the sake of
protecting an enemf 's property ; it was not for
the sake of securing ao advantageous carrying
trade; but it was in order rSeciually to secure
outselre* against sea a|Kres>ioas that that pro-
TUion was necessary. Spoliations might arise
from unjust orders given by the Qovemment of
a belligerent nation to their officers and cruisers,
and these might be redressed by application to
and negotiation with that Power. But no com-
pUiuIs, no negotiations, no orders of Qovernment
Itself, could give redress, when those s^ioliations
were grounded on a supposiiiito that the vesseb
of a neutral nation baa au enemy's property on
board ; iis long as such property was not protected
by the Biig ol the neutral nation, as long as it was
liable to be captured, it was not sufficient, in ordrr
to avoid detention and capture, to have no such
properly on board. Every privateer, under pre-
tence that be sUB]>eeted an enemy's goods were
part of a cargo, might search, vex, and capture a
Temel ; and if in any corner of the dominions o(
the belligerent Power, a single Judge could be
found inclined if not determined to condemn, at
all events, bvfore his tribunal, all vessels so cap-
tured would be brought, and tbe same pretence
which had caused the capture would justify b
condemnation. Tbe only oatiou who persisted
Burope. whom their interest, as they were the
atronKebt, and a* there wa* hardly a maritime
war fn which they were not involved, led to wish
for a coQiinnation of a custom, which gave addi-
tional strength to their overbearing domiuioDover
the seas. All the other nations bad diflferent sen-
timents and a diff<:ient inierest.
During the American war, in the year 178(1, so
fully convinced were the neutral natigiis of the
necessity of introducing that doctrine of free bot-
toms makinK free goous, that all of them, except-
ing Portugal, who was in a slate of vasMlaffe to,
and a mere appendage of Qreat Britain, bad uni-
ted in u der tu establi.ih the principle, and had
formed fur that purpose the alliance know, by
tbe name of the Armed Nenlmltiy. All tbe hjlli-
and agreed to the doctrine. Bi^land i
been libliged, in some measure, to give for a while
a tacit acquiescence. America Iwd completely,
at tbe time, admitted the principle, although they
were then at war [Mr. O. quoted on iLis subject
the Journals of CungresM of the year 1780, page
SIO, and of the year 1781, page 80] and it hml
been introduced In every other Treaty we bad
concluded since our existence as a nation. Since
the year 1780, every nation, so far as his know-
ledgn went, had refused to enter into a Treaty of
Commerce with England, unless that provision
was inserted. Russia, for that reason, would not
renew their Treaty, which had expired in 1788,
although be believed lhat,during tbe present war,
and in order to answer the ends of the war, they
had formed a temporary Convention, Which he
had not seen, but wnicb, perhaps, did not include
that provision. EuKlana had consented to it in
their Treaty with France in 1788. and we were
the first neutral nation who abandoned the com-
mon cause, gave up the claim, and, by a posiiire
declaration inserted in our Treaty, had recognised -
the contrary doctrine. It had been said, that
under the present circumstances, it could not be
expected that Qreat Britain would give up the
point i perhaps so; but the objection was not, that
oui negotiator had not been able to obtain that
doctrine, but that he bad consented to enter into
a Treaty o( < 'ommeree (whicb we did not want,
and which bad no connexion with an adjustment
of our diflVreoces with Qreat Britain) without
the principle contended for making part of that
Treaty. Unless we could obtain security for our
iiavi^t ion, we wanted no Treaty; and tbe only
provision which could give us that security,
should have been tbe §ine qua non of a Treaty.
On the contrary, we had disgusted all the other
neutral nations of Europe, without whose concert
and assistance there was but little hope that we
should ever obtain that point, and we had taught
Gredt Britain that we were disposed to form the
most intimate connexions with her, even at Ibe
expense of recognising the principle tbe most
fatal to the liberty of commerce, and to the secu-
rity of our navigation.
But, if we would not obtain anything which
might secure us against future aggressions^ should
we have parted, without receiving any equivalent.
th tho«e weapons of self-<le&nae, which al-
though thef could not repel, might, '
de-
gree, prevent any gross attack" upon our trade,
any gross vijlaiioo of our rights as a neutral na-
tion 1 We had no fleet to oppose or tu puniph
the insults of Great Britain; but. from our com-
mereiel relativa situation, we had it in our power
to restrain her aggressions by restrictions on her
trade, by a total probibilion of her manufacture^
or bv a seque.itratiau of the debts due to her. By
the Tfeaty — not mtisfied with receiving notjiiog;
not satisDed with obtaining no security fur the
future — we had, of uur owe accord, surrendered
tbo.-« defensivearmsfor fear they might benbuaCd
by ourselves. We had given up tbe two first for
l&e whole time during which we might wai;l
.dbyGoogle
ffiSTOKT OF COHGim.
H-ora.]
EKteutim ^ Briluh TWMj/,
EApau,17M.
ibm mvat— tke- pwigd of Um praMst Wbr— mod
tiM iut, tiw pawM o£ MquwIntHio, m had ab«i-
4on«d lorenr: crcry olktr Kitiele t^ iha TM*iy
•r Cpmmcrcc wm tttBponij, ihu peipto*!-
Hr. O. WM Dot gaiDg to anwi inw a diiouition
of ttte immonlity of MquMiering; priraM 'pro-
perty. What could be more immoral than war?
or the pluaderiog of iltB high bbu le^lized uader
tiM name of priTateering? ' Yet seU-drfeiice jnt-
tified the fint, and the nteeiiity of ihe oaw might,
at leatt in some iaitaaaci, and when it mi the
obIv practicable nude of war&ie left to a nation,
apologise aren for the lait. In the lame manner
ihii power of Mtjiwatration might be resorted to,
aa the last weapon of Mlf-defence, rather than to
•eek redreai by >a appeal to arm*. It wbc the
laet peace-meaaure that could be taken by a na-
tios ; but the Treaty, by deelaring thai in ca*e of
national difference! it ifaonld not be rewirted to,
faaddepriTedu^of the power of judging of its pro-
priaty, had rendered it ui act at hostilii^, and
aad eSiKluaUy taken off that restraint which a
Cnr of its nxeroise kid upon Qreai Britain.
Th<M It appeared thit^ by the Treaty, »<■ had
promiwd foil eorapeiHiion Vo Bnglacd tor erery
foaible elaira they might lute ^iait lu. ihac
we had abacdoned erery claim of a doubtiul na-
ture, and that we had conseated to receive me
poBis, our claim to which was out disputed, under
new coBditioDS and reetrictioos nerer before con-
lemplaled. Tliat, after haTtog obtained, by ihoae
iCoaaeMians, aa adjiutment of past difierencds, we
haij uu.eteu into a new agreement, uDcoiiDecIed
viih thoM object^ which bad heretofore been
subjects of diseuuion between the two nationi;
an<. that, by that Treaty of Conuaerci and Nari-
^tioD, we had obtained do commercial advanuge
-vhieii W-! did not enjoy before ; we had obtained
no a«cvrit]i against future ag^re&sioni. no security
in faror ol the freedom of our navigation, and
we bad parted with erery pledge we had m our
handi, with every power of restriction, with
every weapon of seltUtefence, which was dalcu-
Lated to give na any tecnrity.
There was yet another article which stood by
itsdf, ODconaected either with adjiutment of past
disputes, or with commercial regulations; he
meant the ninth artiele, which proviiles that Bri-
lish subjects now bedding lands in the United
Statai (hou|d continue to bold them, and might
<*11 or deriee the same, and that neither they, nor
•tbeir heirs or aMignt sliould, io far as might re-
aped the said laoos, and the legal remedies inci-
dent thereto, be regarded as aliens. Mr. Q. said
he waa not a Uwrer, and, in expressing an opm-
ka, he meant notfiioff more than to communicate
hi* donbts, and ask for an ezplanatioD. The'e
would be no difficulty in finding the meaning of
the artiele, did ii apply only to those British sub-
jects, who had acquired lands under the laws o*^
ibe States ; but the former connexion of this
eon::try with England rendered the subject diffi-
cult to be explajaed, even by men of legnl abili-
tien; for its explanation must depend on the con-
aequcnces of a principle unknown to the laws of
Kagland.
Tlwprin«tpbofAeBBgU«hlawww,th*tnoN^
jeet ooold shake off his aU^iaaoa; that is to w^,
that DO man, who was o«ce a citizen, o«atd w-
coote aa aliea. Yet, by the effect of the Rcnda-
tioB, British isbieeto, who before 1776, had a
right to hoU lands ia Anarioa aa put of ih« Bn-
lish Bmpire, had become alieiui m th« Uailtd
Btaiet, and the effbet of thM alieaage upoa their
titles to suoh landa, aod how ter that effect was
changed by the oiwimtioii of the Treaty, aeemed
to him to oe questiona of a very niea nature. He
wonid, however, beg leave to anggeat, what to
him appeared to be the efftet of the Treaty. So
far as landb bad been conAscaled by the laws of
any Btate, and thase lawi carried into effect, aad
M> far aa, snoh lands having bean eonaidercd a^ es-
cheated, an office had been found and the escheat
been oonplated, he conceived the Tnatv wa«dd
create no alteratioa ; boi where the lands bad not
been coaflseated, either because no laws had been
sassod for that purpose, or beoBMe ihay had not
been carried into effect before the Treaty irf 17S3,
and where the legal formaliticis of finding an
office, A«., necessary to eom[Jete an escheat had
been u fleeted, it seemed to him the Treaty
might operate in three ways. Firstly, it woald
prevent any State from completing an escheat by
'finding an office, ^., when they bad nefflected
doing it. Secondly, it would enable the British
subjects to sell or devise, and Iherefore to convert
their life estate into a fee-«iiDple forever. And
thirdly, it would enable those subjects to lostitDte
suits in Courts for the recovery of those lands,
proriding them with a legal remedy they bad
not before, since their alienage would have be«n
a sufficient bar against bringing real actions. If
the Treaty migbt be supposed to have that effect,
ils tendency, ho ftir as related, not to private es-
tates, but to the former proprietary estate?, might
prove vexations and injurious to several of the
States. It would strengthen the proprietary claims
of the Penn fhmily, not in Pennsylvania, but in
the State of Delaware. It might bare M>me
effect on the decision of the Fairfax claim in Vir-
luch parts of the lands of A
been sold, although fori
property of the Baltimore family, as i
lands, and not as confiscated lands.
In North Carolina the proprietary claim of the
Orenville family, which incloded the best half
of that Slate, and of the SouthwestRn Terri-
tory, might be revived by the Treaty; forallhooKh
a law had passed in that State 'to confiscate the
lands of all the British subjects who wooM be
absent on a certain day; yet the proprietary lands
were not meaai to be comprehended within that
provision ; the CommitsioneTS, who were to eeU
the confiscated property, never disposed of a sin-
gle acre of the Janas which were granted by an-
other law of the State as vacant, and not as con-
fiscated lands, without having been actnally es-
cheated to the State by an office being found, or
any other formality whatever; and they were
even expressly dtslingnished from land to be con-
fiscated by the very act passed for the purpose of
conflacating. [Mr. G. here read the olanse of the
.dbyGoogle
ItH
Bi»t)tHif< Of em&inm.
11M
KUOMiOH ^ SrtlUH Trtaty.
(H..
aot he lUailvd to.] SnppMhig, ho#^*%r, e?«rv
tkioB he had tn6 on tkai sdbjMt n verf itenbtm,
It «u sot tew true ttalthii«nicte, wbuih, attdemn
»pp«UMxat of remtroeKy. gtwatod a pcnitite ad-
TMiMge to Omt Brini*, inth)Mn«Df eqainknt
bain^ P'^"! ^'*'S ^ "o* "" lafMClion, at least a
tatncnoD aver toe LmsUtin ]wwrs ; and bd
exespiiaa to tha laws of the different States oa a
snbjMt of a detieaw oMtiK,' might involve B«t
enty lomr of our eiteens, btit t/na sereral of ttre
StatM, ID eem|dax law ssks and ■erioos embcr-
nMmeQt,aad,B)tbeiigh tt BM^tttiiis«nate mach
ntaahiaT, wodM eivQ as as nombte beneit
Pnm Che renew he ha« tatM of the Tnttiy ,
sod lb* opiiikinB h« had expr«««d, Mr. Q. said, it
w«a hanuT aecenary fethini to add that he looked
S|n6 the iastroment as highly hijariDtis M the
brWresCi of tha United States, and thai heearnmtly
wnbed it nerer had hem aadc ;- bat whether, in
in fireBeM siaee, the H«t»e osKht to Tefase to
carry it into «^t,aBd what wotud be tb« proba-
ble eonsaqaenne* ef a refnsal, was a qneMion
wbioh nqvirei the most serioua allentiiHi, and
wbieh he wonid now anempt to iBreatigate.
SbouU the Treaty be finally defeated, either
ntftr negotialioBs would be nmre socoe^ul, or
Chrat&itain wouMrefiueio makes newanaa^
ment, and leave things in the sitoation in which
they were, or war would be the conseqaence.
Mr. Q. said that be would, in the course of his
observaliona, make lOfae remarks on tbe last sop-
position i he did not think tliat the first would be
very probable at prescol, and be was of opinion
that, onder the present ci ream stance^ and antil
some change took place in our own or in tbe rela-
tive political situation of the European nations, it
w»s to be apprehended that, in luch a case, new
negotiations would either ne rejected or prove
onsuccessful. Soch an event would have perhaps
followed a rejection of tbe Treaty even by the
Senate oi by the Pribident. After the negotia-
tor employed by the United States bad once affix-
ed his i^^iure,it must have heeome very proMe-
pniical, unless he bad exceeded hia powers, whe-
ther a refuMl to sanetion the contract he had
made woald not even tna I ty defeat; at lesct for a
time, the prospect of a new Treaty. He conceived
that the hopes ttF obtaining better coadilions, foy a
new negotiatiaa. were much less in the present
stage ia the buaineaa than they hod Wen when
the Treaty was in its rncboate foim befote the
Bxeewtve^ and m order to have a just idea of
lite cODiequencesof a re jeetioR at present, be would
wtemplaie them opon that sappoaition iriiich
appearea to bim most probable, vis : that no new
Treaty would take ^aceforacertainpMiodoftime.
la mentioning his objections to the Treaty itself,
ho bad already slated the advantans which, in
his opJuioD, would result to the United States
from the non-existence of that instrument; he
would not repeat but proceed at naee ta examine
what losses might accrne that csuld be set off
against those advantages.
As he was not seDuble that a single eommercial
advantage bad been obtained by the Treaty, he
could not mention the loss of any, as a naiichiet
4th COK.— 30
that would attend its rejection, ff, ho*ever, tlfe
Bast India article was sihpposed ft) be beneflcial,it
roust, on the other hand, be conceded that we &t^
enjoyed every benefii arising from it for a number
of years, withom Treaty, and cooseqtiently, be-
caase il was the interest of the Hast India Corii-
ptey that we ^ould enjoy them ; and that itwa«
not probable that circumstances would so Kt
ehaoge there, durii^ the short period to which
that article was limited, as to induce Aat Compa-
ny to adopt a diflferent poKcy towards us.
The indemniBcation to be obtained from Greht
Britain for spoliaiions on our trade, if considerefl
as a oaiiDnal reparation for a national aggressionj
was, cenainly, as he had already stated it, an im-
porum object gnined by tbe Treaty. But if H
was to be viewed as a money transaction, and'iBl
toss as a national loss a{ rooner, it would be well
to examine, whether in that point of Tie*, that tJf
money, we would not be the ^inen^on the whole',
by not carrying the Treaty into effect? Mr. O.
said that he bad made no objection to that article clT
the Treaty whic^ relates to British debts. What^
ever the amouot might be, if it was jnst that we
should pay them, it was jnst to pay that amount;
but when we were examinins the sitnaiion is
which we should be, if we had no Treaty, when
we were calculating the losses we were to experi'
eoce by obtaining no compensation for our claims,
it was right to consider the amount of those claitfts,
and to compare it with tbe probable amount of
the claims of the other party, and of the sums of
money wfaieh a Oon-executioo of the Treaty, an<f
a refural on the part of Great Britain lo do us ji»-
tice, to inderaniry Uh for our own losses, and to
enter into new negotiations, would justify ue in
withhdding. That sobject had already imdM^
gone a fall discussion, and he would recall t&a
attention of the Committee only to the demand
of Great Britain for intetest on the British debts:
It was well known that our Coni^ had not-
formly refused to allow the British creditors tha
interest which had accrued on their demands dui<-
ing the late war, that is to say, during eight years.
An hough we had contended that those oeeisions
could not be considered as legal impediments, yet
il had been insisicd by Great Britain tbat they
were. The two Governments had come to isHntf
on ttut point, as might be seen, by recdnring'ra
the piinied eorresnondence of Mr. JeFFKRaox. H
was one of the points to which the jnrtadietioD «f
tbe CommtSNOners must eltend, sinee, on aecooM
of deeiaiiniiof our Courts, it was one of the caaea
where eompeneaiion could not be ohtarned.aBd
bad been refnsed by the ordinary course of JBdIdat
proceedings; and tbr greater security the Com-
missioners were by the Treaty, em powered to tahtt
into their connderation all claims, whether irf
priDeipat or interest, or balanced of principal or
interest. ThoaeCommissionersmDst he consider-
ed lets as jud^s than as political agents, who
would come with a determination to support the
claims conteiided for by their respective nations.
They woald, iherelore, disagree on the subject of
war-interest, and it would be left solely to the
Gt^hCommissioner^that is to say, to lot — todeeide
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1196
HIST(^T OF GONGRBBS.
t.|
ExteuHon of BriliA Tnat).
[Ar«L,179A.
Aether that interMt ibotiM b« pud bf '^^ Uaited
Slates 01 Dot. Eight fears' ioteresl amouoted to
ODe half of the whale amount of debts due bf
I America to Oreat Bril&in at the begioDiag of tbe
war ; for ii must be remarked that tb*t claim ex-
tended to all debtR, whether good or bad, because
it bad been refused oa all. and could be recovered
Vf the ordinary course of judicial proceedings oo
Done. What those debts amounted to was rery
nnceriaiu. and he had seen a Tarietjr of calcula-
tions on that subject. If they were estimated, bs
they had been by some, at fire miltioDs sterliug,
I one half of them would amount^ to moTc than
' twelve miltiona of dollars) and when we took into
consideration the amount of priucipel we should
here to pay. on tbe principles stated bf a gentle-
man from Vitsiuia, [Mr. Nichoi^s.J his calcula-
tion of near fifteen millions of dollars in the whole
would not be exaggerated. But even taking the
amoDDt of those debts at the lowest estimate, the
amoUQt of war-interest, and of the principal we
would have to pay, fttr exceeded the amount which
the most sanguine amongst us expected to recover
from the Government of Great Britain, by virtue
of the Treaty, on account of the spoliations com-
mitted on our trade.
Tbe only positive loss, therefore, which ia nis
opinion wouhl arise from our having no Treaty,
was that of the Western posts. He had already
dated that, surrendered in the manner settled by
the Treaty, he conceived them to be of very in-
aignificant value in a commercial point of view,
and of little use, if any, as a security against the
Indiana ; for it must be remembered that our own
laws, for the purpose of preserving peace with
those tribes, had enacted, under severe penalties,
that our owocitizeus should, on no account what-
ever, cross over the boundary line between them
and ourselves, (slthoujib within (he territory ceded
to ns by Great Briiain.) unless they had special
licenses from our Government. Itwas^ therefore,
OUT own opinion that peace could not be preserved
with tbe Indians, if. ever our own citizens Jiad a
free«nd uni-ontrolled Intercourse with them. And
yet il was a positive condition of the Treaty, thai
the British traders settled at Detroit and the other
posts — men, who from habit, were attached to
Oreat Britain and inimical to tbe United Stales,
who bad given repeated proo& of that enmity,
who. possessed an unbounded influence amon^^t
the Indians, and had been the chief promoteTs of
tbe Indian war — that those men should remain
there an British subjects ; and that ihey and all
otfaer British subjects should have the privilege
ibrever to pass over that line, which we bad for-
bidden our citizens to cross, and should continue
lo carry on with the Indians living within onr
territory a free trade and commerce, uncontrolled
by our laws and by those regulations which we
had imposed or might impose on our citizens. In
other words, we had asreed that these men should
preserve their baneful influence'over the Indians,
and their allegiance to Great Briain ; and we
might, therefore, expect that influence lobe exert-
ed as would suit the interest, and in conformity
to the directions of their Sovereign.
He most tfaerefoTQ repeat that, a* he had thought
that at any time since 1789, we might bare had the
posts without those eonditioos, provided we had
then agreed,aswebadby thelateTreatT,ienimke
a compensation for the British debt&henadmneh
rather that we could again be placed in the sitaa-
lion in which we were two years ago. And he
would not hesitate to declare that, in his opiiiioD,
our claim to the posts and the chance we bad to
claim them, by negotiation, in the year 1793, was
better than their possession upon the terms of the
Treaty. But as the question now was not what
would be best to be aoDe if oo Treaty had been
made — as the negotiator had put us in a worse
situation than we were in before that Treaty ; as
the subject of the present e^minalion showx
tbe coDivquences that would follow, if no Trea-
ty at all was made; and as one of ihoae eon-
sequences would undoubtedly be a further deten-
tion of the posts, and less hope lo obtain tbem
Id future — he would certainly agree that it was
better to have them, even encumbered with tfaese
conditions, than not to have them at all. For
although they might not be of any immediate ad-
vantage, either as a commercial object or as giving
security against tbe Indians, their possession woqII
ejabte us to prevent a further eitensioa of the
British seitlementa within our territory, and, by
forming settlements of OUf own, to acquire, b» de-
grees, sufficient Birengtb in that ()uaTter to nave
nothing to fear either from the British or from tbe
The further detention of the posts, the national
stain that would result from receiving no repaia-
tioo for the spoliations on our trade, and the un~
certainty of a final adjustment of our differcneea
with Great Britain, were the three evils which
itrock him as Tesutting from a rejection of the
Treaty ; and when to these eons (derations he
added that of the present situation of the coontry,
oftheagiiation of i^e public mind, and c^theadvan-
tages that would arise from union of sentiments,
however injurious and uneqnal he conceived the
Treaty to he, however repugnant it might be to
his feelings and perhaps to his prejudices, he fe\t
induced to vote for it, and wonld not give hit
assent to any proposition which would imfdy its
rejection. But the condDot of Great Britain swce
the Treaty was signed, the impressment of oar
seamen, and their nninternipted spoliations on
our trade, especially by seizing our vessda ladea
with provisions — a proceeding which they might,
perhaps, justify bjr oueof the articles of the Trea-
Ir— were such circumstances as might induce
them to pause awhile, in order to determiae whe-
ther it was pruper, immediately, and withoat
having obtained any explanation thereon, to adopt
the resolution on thetable, and to pan at present all
thelawsnecessarTto carry the Treaty intoefieci.
The ISth article of the Treaty, the provision
article, as it was called, had already been fully
investigated by a gentleman from Virginia, [Mr.
NicBOLAB,] and he bad been astonished that those
gentlemen who had spoken in favor of the Treaty,
bad given do direct answer to hi* remarks on
that poinL
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HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
II9J
April, 17g8.J
ExtctUim of Brititk TretOti.
fH.li
Mr. G. proceeded tben to stale the lecoud clause
of that article, which declares, that ''wheoeyer
provisions becoming contiabana according to the
esiatiBg Lavs of Naiiona, should for that reason be
seized, the same should not be confiscated, but the
owners indemQiGed f and said that this clause of
the article did not cootemplate provisionx, or
other irticlea nat penerallv contraband, when at-
tempted to be carried to a besie^d place ; far the
third cUase of the same article provides for the
last mentioaed case, and declares " that a vessel
thus laden, and sailing for a besieged place, shall
not be detaioed, nor her cargo, if not contraband,
confiscated, unless, after notice, she shall again
altempt to enter:" which implies that, in case of
notice thus given, provisions may be confiscated,
whilst the provisions contemplated in the second
clause are not to be confiscated. It is therefore
admitted by that article, that th«re are cases,
other than that of provisions and oiber articles
not ^neiallf contraband, carried to a besieged
tlace, in which those provisJODs and articles may
e re^rded as contrahand. It was admitlin|[ a
principle unknown lo the Laws of Nations, in-
frinKing our neutrHlily, destructive of our trade,
and liable to every misconstruction. The British
had shown what they meant bv provisions be-
coming contraband aceordins- to tne ezisttng Laws
of Nations, when they had laKen our vessels laden
with provisions, and given us an indemnification
of ten per cent. So immediately connected was
that proceeding of the British and that article, that
even the gentleman from Connecticut [Mr.HtLL-
hodbe] could not separate them in his own mind ;
and when speaking of the indemhification we were
to obtain in such cases as were contemplated by
the article, he bad repeatedly called it "ten per
ceoL" thinking onlv of tbe compensation given
by the British in tne case before mentioned, as
one contemplated in the article, since the words
ten per cent, were not to be found in the clause
itselt. It was not, however, material at present
to decide whether a fair construction of the article
justified the conduct of the British or noL Tbe
fact was u neon I rover ted ; ihey still continued to
impress out seamen and to capture our vessels.
If they pretended to justify that conduct by the
Treaty, it became necessary to obtain atj explana-
tion of the doubtful articles ; if there was nothing
io the Treaty to justify it, their acts were acts oT
hoitility— were an infraction of that Treaty.
And, even according to the doctrine of those gen-
tlemen who thought that, in common cases, the
House had no discretion, the Treaty once broken
by one parly was no longei binding on the other;
and it was the right as well as the duty of this
House not to proceed to pass the laws necessary
to carry it into effect, until satisfactory assurances
were obtained ihat these acts should cease, and
until Great Britain had evinced a fnendly dispo-
sition towards us.
Whatever evils might follow a rejection of the
Treaty, they would not attend a postponcmeoi.
To suspend our proceedings wonld not thiow us
ia a situation which would require new negotia-
tions, new arrangementa on the points already
settled, and well understood by both parlies. It
was merely a delay until an explanation of the
late conduct of the Briti^ toward* us was ob*
cained, or until that conduct was altered. If, oa
ihe contrary, we consented to carry the Treaty
' ~ effect, under tbe present circumstances, what
lid be our situation in future? It was, by
committing the most wauion and the most un-
provoked aggressions on our tfadej it was, by
seizing a large amount of our properly as i pledsre
for our good behaviour, that Great Britain had
forced the nation into the present Treaty. li^ by
ihreaiening new hosiiliiies, or rather by continue
ing her aggressions, even after the Treaty wa*
made, she could force us also to carry it into effect,
our acquiescence would be tantamount to a decla-
ration that we meant to submit in proportion to
tbe insults that were offered tons; and this dis-
position being once known, what security had we
a^inst new insults, new aggressions, new spolia-
tions, which, probably, would lay the foundation
of some additional' demands on the part of the og-
greisoT, and of some additional sacrifices on ours 1
It had been said^ and said with truth, thai, to put
up with the indignilies we had received, without
obtaining any reparation, which would probably
be the effect of defeating the Treaty, was highly
dishonorable to the nation. In his opinion, it still
was more so, not only tamely to submit to a con-
tinuation of those national insults, but whilst they
thus continued uninterrupted, to carry into effect
the instrument we had consented to accept as a
reparation for foimer ones. When the general
conduct of Great Britain towards us, from the be-
ginning of the present war, was considered ; when
ihe means by which she bad produced ihe Treaty
were reflected on ; a final compliance, on our part,
while she still persisted in that conduct^ woilst
the chastening tod of that nation was sttll held
over us, was, io his opinion, a dereliction of oa*
tional interest, of national honor, of national inde-
pendence.
But it was said that war mu^t be the conse-
quence of our delaying to carry the Treaty into
effect. Did the genilemeo mean thai, if we re-
jected the Treaty, if we did accept the reparation
there given to us, in order to obtain redress, we
had no alternative left but war? If we must go
lowar in order to obtain reparation for insultxand
spoliations on our trade, we mast do it, even if we
carry the present Trealy into effect ; for the Trea-
ty gives us no reparation for the aggressions com-
miited since it was ratified, has not produced a
discontinuance of those acts of hostility, and gives
us no security that they shall be discontinued.
But the argument of those gentlemen, who sup-
posed thai America must go to war, applied to a
final rejection of the Treaty, and not to a delay.
He did not propose lo retuse the reparation offered
by the Treatr,aod to put up with the aggressions
committed ; ne had agreed that that reparation,
such as it was, was a valuable article of the Trea-
ty ; he had agreed that, under the present citcum-
stances, a greater evil would follow a total rejec-
tion, than an acquiescence to tbe Treaty. The
only measure which had been mentioned in pre-
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U94
BISTORT OF CONGBfiSS.
ExtaOitm ^ BriliA TVeofy.
[Ap■l^]79&
fercDce to the one now under diicDssioD, wu a
nutpension, s post pone meat wkitii the present
■poliations coDtinoed, ia hopes to obtain for them
a aiinihu' reparation, and assatancea that they
woald ceaie.
Btit. was it meant to in^iniuile that it was the
final intention of those who pretended to wish
only for a postponement, to inTolre this country
in a warl Tbece was no period of the present
Saropean mt at which it would not have been
ireak and wicked to adopt such measures as muU
inrolre Ameiica in the contest, unless forced into
it for the sakeof seif-derence; Dut,at this time, to
think ofil, would fait but little short of madness.
The whole American nalion woald rise in oppo-
sition to the idea ; and it might, at least, haTe been
recollected that war could not he declared except
by Congress, and that two of the branches of Go-
Ternment were sufficient to check the other
any supposed attempt of that kind.
If there was do necessity imposed upon Ame-
rica to go to war; if there was no apprebensicH)
■he should, by her own conduct, involTe herself
in one, the danger must arise from Great Britain;
, and the threat is, that she shall make war a^tnst
us, if we do not comply. Geoilemea Erst tell us
that we have mad« tne best possible bargain with
that nation ; that she has conceded everything,
without receirioga single iota in return ; and yet
(he^ would persuade us that she will make
against us, in order to force us to accept that
tract, so adTaotageous to us, and so injurious to
herself. It would not be contended that a delay,
uotil an amicable eiptanalioo was obtained, could
afford eren a pretence to Great Britain for going
to war; and we all koew that hei own interest
would prevent her. If another campaign took
place, it was acknowledged that all bee efibrts
were to be rierted against the West Indies.
She had proclaimed her own scarcity of pro-
TiMODS at home, and she must depend on our sup-
plier to support ner armaroeot. It depended upon
us to defeat her whole scheme, and this wai a
sufficient pledge against open hostility if the Eu-
'ropean war continued. If peace took place, there
would not be even the appearance of danger ; the
moment when a nation was happy enough tu
emerge from one of the most expensive, bloody,
and dangerous wars in which she ever had been
ioTolved, would be the last she would choose to
ptuD([e afresh in a similar calamit;^.
But to the cry of war, the alarmists did not fail
to add that of confusion ; and they had declared,
. even on this Boor, that, if the resolution was not
adopted, GoTeroment would be dissolred. Go-
vernment dissolved incase a postpone men t took
place ! This idea was too absurd to deserve a di-
■ rect answer. But he would ask those gentlemen,
by whom the Government was to be dissolved 1
Certainly, not by those who would vote against the
resolution; for, although they were not, perhaps,
fortunate enough to have obtained tbeconfidenceol
the gentleman who voted against them, siill, it
must be agreed, that those who succeeded in their
wishes, who defeated a measure they disliked,
would not wish to destroy that Government, which
Government would be to dissolve their own pow-
er. By whom, then, he would ask. again, was the
Government to be dissolved? The g^tlemen
must answer, by themselves, or they must declaie
that ihey meant nothios but to alarm. Was it
really the language of those men, who profeased
to be, who distinguished themselves by the self-
assumed appellation of friends to ord«r, that if they
did uot succeed in all their measures, they woald
overset the Governraent 1 And had all (heir [ko-
fessions been only a veil tohide their loveof pow-
er? a pretence to cover their ambition ? Didihey
mean, that the first event which would put an end
to iheir own authority, should be the ]a«t act of
Government? As to himself, he did not believe
that they had such an intention ; he had too good
an ODinioD of their patriotism to permit hinuelf
to aomit such an idea for a single moment ; but
he thought himself justifiable in eoteriainiDg a
belief that some amongst them, in order to car-
ry a favorite, and what tbey thought to be an ad-
vantageous measure, meant to spread an alarm,
which they did not feel; and he had no doubt
that many nad contracted such ababilof carryinc
every measure of Government as they pleased,
that thef really thought that everything must be
ngmm
they 1
thwarted in a matter of importance. He hoped
that experience would, in future, cure their fears.
But, at all events, be the wishes and inientitns of
the members of tbis House what they may, it was
not in their power to dissolve the Govetament.
The people or the United States, from oneeodof
the Coniioent to the other, were strongly attached
to their Conslitutioii ; they would restrain and
punish the excesses of any parly, of any set of
men in the Government, who would be guilty of
the attempt ; and on them he would rest as a fuU
HCCUrily against every endeavor to destroy our
Union, our Conslitulion, or our GovernmefiL
But, although he was not afraid of a dissolattoa,
he fell how highlv desirable a more general onion
of sentiment would be; he felt the importance of
an agreement of opinion between the different
braDches of Government, and even between the
members of the same branch. He would skcrl-
Gce much to obtain that object ; it had beett one
of the most urging motives with him to be in fa-
vor, not of a rejection, but only of a suspension, of
a delay. But even as a matter of opinion, it was
difficult to say which mode of proceeding, in this
House, would best accord with the general senti-
menisoftbe people. So far as related to the pe-
titions before them, the number of sigoatiir«a
against the Treaty exceeded, at the moment be
was speaking, the number of (hose to favor of the
Treaty. Amoncst the last, some had come from
part of the Union, where it would seem, both
1 the expressions in the petition itself, and from
the proceedings there, that a great inducement in
the petitioners to si^, was a wish to carry the
Treaty wiih Spaiu into effect, as they appear to
have supposed ihat its fate depended upon that of
the British Treaty. Bow ihey would have acted
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imi
HIS^OHT OP CONGMSS.
izbft
AraiLiiyge.]
ExteutiOH of BHtM Trtaty.
ra..
Vjna the British TtMtf klooe, and
with the other, he di^ not know, oor bad he anf
eridence which could eoable him'toformaDopia-
ioa thereon. All tie knew was, that, until the
BpanJsfa Treaty was made, they had been perrecl-
ly silent on the Bubjeec oT the other Treaty, and
lud never expressed an opinion apon it alone.
True it was, thai an alarm which had produced
m combioatioD, bad lately taken place amongst the
merchants of thU and some other Reaports. What
effect it would haVe, and how successful ibey
wonld erenioatly be, in spreading ibis ahrm
amongst Ihepeopleat large, be couM not tell ; hut
there were circumstances accompanying their pe-
tition, which, in his opioion, much dimioiibed the
weigbl they otherwise might have had. They
■ had, nndoubcedly, a right Co petition upon erery
public measure, where they thoUEht themselves
interexted, and their petttioni would deserve equal
regard, with those of their fellow-cittzena tbroogb-
oQt the United States. But, on this occasion, in
order to create an alarm, in order to induce
the people to join them, in order to farce the
Hottse to pass the laws relative to the Treaty.
Ihey had formed a dan^rous comblnalioa, and
affected to cease iDsuring vessels, purchasing
produce, and transacting any business. A gen-
tleman from New York [Mr. Wiuliamb] had
been so much alarmed himself, (hat he had pre-
dicted a fall in the price of every kind of produce,
■nd seems^ indeed, to have supposed, that the
clamors of a few individuals here, would either
put an end to, or satisfy the wants of those nations
which depended on us for supflliea of provisions.
Tet, it had so happened, and it was a complete
proof that the whole was ooljr an alarm, that,
whilst they were debating, the price of flour, which
was of very dull sale two weeks ago, bad risen
in equal proportion with the supposed iears of the
parcliasers.
He could not help considering the cry of war.
the threats of a dissolution of Government, ana
the present alarm^ as designed for the same pur-
pose, that of making an impression' on the tears
of this House. It was through the fear of being
involved in a war, that the negoiiatioa with Great
Britain had originated ; under the impression of
fear, the Treaty had been nwitiated and signed ;
a fear of the same danger, that of war, had pro-
moted its ratification ; and now, every imaginary
mischief which could alarm our fears, was con-
jured up, in order to deprive us of ibat discre-
tion, which this House thought ibey had a right
lo exercise, and in order to lorce us to carry the
Treaty into effect.
If ihe people of the United Sistea wished this
House to carry the Treaty into effiict immediate-
ly, and notwithstanding the continued aggression*
ot the British j if their will was fairly and fully
expressed, he would immediately acquiesce; but
■ince an appeal was made to tiiem. it was reason-
aUe to suspend a decision until tlteir sentimenu
were known. Till then, he must follow his own
Judjgment ; and, as he aould not see that any pos-
sible evils would follow a delay, he wouM vote
agaioat the reiolotion before the Coituniliee, in
order to make roMn, either for that proposed bj
his colleague, [Mr. Maclay,] or l«r any other,
expressed in any manner whatever, provided It
embraced the object he had in view, to wit : the
suspension of the final vote, a postponement of the
laws necessary to carry the Treaty Into effect,
until satisfactory assurances were obtained, that
Great Britain meant, in future, to show us that
friendly disposition, which it was his earnest
wish might, at all timeij be cultivated by Ameri-
ca towards all other nations.
At theconclusionofMr.QALLATiN'aspeecb.acall
being heard for the question, a division look ptaoe
for the Committee's rising, when there were fifty-
six members in favor it; it, of coarse, rose, and
had leave lo sil again.
THE SON or THK MABQUIS LAFATETTB.
Mr. LiviKosTOH, Chairman of Ihe Committee
tor carrying into effect a resolution respecting the
son of tne Marqaii Lapatettb, reported that he
had arrived in this conotry ; that he had received
(iouj and to show that he had no occasion for p
CQOiary assistance, Ihe Committee ^ubjoinetf a
well-written, aBecting letter to the Obairman of
the Committee, in answer to one from htm, ex-
pressive of his gratitude for the kind attention
shown to him by the Legislature of the United
States, by the PaEBioEirr, and to every person to
whom he was made known ; that he had no wants;
that he was as happy as he could be; thatj if he
should in future aare occasion for assistance, he
would Bpi)ly to Congress, who had been so iiai
aod attentive to his welfare.*
WEnKBBBAv, April 2?.
FIEEB IN THE DELAWABB.
Ur. BwANViOK called up a report of the 8ea>-
[TBAMajllia>.1
•Buur^ksa, (SmJtatji RbRh»,ITII.
UK rK*i**d Ik* luiaonUs raMluthn which tte
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iao3
HI8T0RT OF CONGRESS.
«•]
Exeeulion of BrUi§h TVeo/y.
[APKihl7£6.
reUrr of State, on the memorial of luodry
merchaDts of the citjr of Philadelpbia, praying
' that four additioaal piera might be erected io tbe
river Delaware. The report was ia favor of the
peiiiioners, and re cotd mended thai a sum of
16,000 dollars should be appropriated for the pur-
A cODsiderafale debate took place upon this re-
port. The measure was objecled (o by Messrs.
LtvinasTON, S. Shitb, aod Nicholas, od the
f round of [nrtiality to the port of Philadelphia,
t was said that iwo cents per ton were imposed
D[>on vessels coming into the port of Baltimore, to
defray tbe expenses of keeping io good order that
harbor; that there were certain impediments io
Hudson's river, and others, which that House
might, with the same propriety, be applied to to
remove; and, tbat if the General Oovernment
erected piers in the Delaware, it ought, also, to
.pay attention to the wants of other ports in the
tame respect. It was replied by Messrs. Swan-
wick, SiTOREATEB, Hartlet, Gallatin, and
KiTTBRA, that this application was made in con-
sequence of an act passed io Congress, in August,
17B9, by which the General Giovemment under-
took to beep io repair the piers in the Delaware ;
that, befuru the General Government was adopted,
these piers wereunderlheilirection of the StateGo-
Ternment, and supported by an impost for the pur-
pose ; but, when it went into operation, the busi-
ness was put in the bands of the General Govern-
ment, ll was asserted that the erection of these
piers was asked for upon the same ground as the
Election of light-house:, which was frequently
agreed to.
Mr. CoiT, at lecgth, moved that the Commit-
tee rise, in order that the report might be referred
to the Committee of Commerce and Manufac-
tares ; which was agreed to.
He afterwards proposed a resolution to the fol-
lowing effect, which was agreed to, andrefened lo
the same Committee:
-** Raohed, That the, Commitlee of CommerM and
Hann&eturaa bs directed to inquire, and lepott,
whether ID/, and what iarthat,
0 inj of the ports of the
TREATT WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on the sfiite of the Union;
Irhen tbe resolution for carrying into effect the
British Treaty being under consideration—
Mr. Gilbert observed that he, certainlv, had
a* good a claim to sentibility aod regard lor the
bonor, interest, welfare, and dignity of his coun-
try, as the gentleman who spole yesterday from
Peonsylraoia, [Mr. GALLiLTii(,J and who seemed
■o cDDcBrned for tbe honor of the United States,
6ir, said he, birth, nurture, education, and every
flrop of blood on earth, to which I am related,
well entitle me to this claim. He hoped, tbere-
fbre, neither that gentleman, nor any other,
would, from the opinion he entertained, and the
-* '-'-"1 he ihanld give on the aobject betore
suppose him insensible to those dear, those
precious considerations. Upon a question so in-
teresting to tbe American nation, notwithstand-
ing everything already advanced, he said he could
hardly reconcile himself to a silent vote. He
very well knew that the subject had been pre-
sented in every possible point of view, and that
nothinK, indeed, nad, upon any former occasion,
much agitated, or so much excited tbe Ameri-
Why a Treaty cootaining nothing unconstitD-
tional, (as in respect to this, is aOowed on all
hands,} made in the ordinary course of regular
negotiation, should thus interest all the passions
and feelings, thus excite the sensibility of the peo-
ple of this country, indoilely more than (be most
important transactions of the same people at any _
time heretofore, infioitely more than their own '
social or political compacts, infinitely more tban
their great Declaration of Indept^ndeiice, and
fiat which gave birth to the nation, he said, be
would leave to iwber reBeclion, and lo the record-
ing pen of history and philosophy to settle. He
would, he said', however, submit some considera-
tions and remarks on the subject, as they occuired
to his mind.
The principles of the Constitution, he said, as
also the merits and expediency of tbe Treaty, had
been so eminently, so minutely considered and
discussed on that floor, as well as by the most in-
telligent and enlightened men throughout the
Union, that, in fact, nothing seemed to remain
unexplored.
Mr. G. said he. would, in a summary way, en-
deavor lo touch upon some paints, which, he
thought, would not he considered inapplicable to
the question, and notice some seotimenis which
had fallen from gentlemen opposed to him on the
As to rectitude of intention, or purity of dii-
Cition, he would leave them to their proper tri-
lal. If, from any further view of tne subject.
or well-founded observations, any gentlemen of
the committee should, he said, doubt the sound-
of those feelings which mi^t hitherto have
pause ; that they would examine well beiorc they
decided upon the important proposition before
them. Mr. G. said, from what ne nad seen, from
what he had heard and observed in the course of
the debate, he entertained little or no expectation
of any change of a determination which, to faim,
seemed to be the result of long-settled coikIu-
sions. It was proper, however, he thought, that
the principles and considerations which had in-
duced such determination should lie r«idered
clearly manifest; that, in looking at our transac-
tions, the world should not be at a loss for the pre-
vailing reasons and motives of ourcooducL That
there exists in this House, said Mr. Q., great bit-
terness, extreme indisposition towards the Treaty,
is remarkably evident; tbat Ibis spirit and indis-
position has been transfused, ana more or less
imbibed among tbe people, he said, was also true.
The cause of all this, he said he would not then
stop to inquire ; hut, would first take a view of
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1305
HISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
130S
April. 1796.1
Execution of Brituh Treaty.
fH.o
the Treaty, to see if the great enenif to tfajs
country, if the great aonrce of all evil were con-
cealed aod lurking theie.
The ereai clamor against the Tre«ty had rery
generally been, he said, on account of its com-
mercial arrangements. Even the extinguished
parts of the 12th article, had, in thnt House, as
\rell as abroad, been made as much the theme of
reprobation, as if (hey still actually existed. He
considered this, he said, an unfair and suspicious
circumstaDce. It was obviously true, he observ-
ed, thai the most experienced commercial men,
in all parts of the United States, generally
agreed, that however short of their wishes these
commercial arransemencs might be, still, they
irere, in fMt, on the whole, Teally beneficial to
this countrjf. It is true, said he, the Commercial
Representative here from Philadelphia seems to
think otherwise, and to allow littte or no regard to
the opinions of other commercial characters, how-
erer, enlightened or experienced — concluding, in-
deed, at once, as he says, fwith little eo{n[)liment
to others. ) that th.ey are all, alt biassed, from con-
■ideralions of private interest. Sir, said Mr. O.,
how little this Representative may be influenced
from like considerations, I know not. At the
same time, said he, I confers, that in respect to
subjects of this sort, I consider such considcra-
tiooa, when general, much to be regarded ; and,
indeed, to furnish the very best lights on the sub-
ject. But whether, in this respect, said he, the
Treaty be actually good, or actually bad, or nei-
ther, or whether it he matter of conjecture or
uncertainty, when we consider that the experi-
ence of two years after the present war in Eu-
rope will most probably decide, and leave it en-
tirely in our own power to put an end to it or not.
fts we then find from eznerience our interest tc
dictate^ surely, he said, all reasonable men would
unite in the propriety ot waiving otjectio
that ground. So^ that the ereat clamor so
mently urged against the Treaty in this respect,
■« colonizing us again to Great Britain, may
be ertdently seen to be mere clamor and ab-
surdity.
Before be could quit the commercial and tem-
porary parts of the Treaty, Mr. Q. said, ha wished
to lake a little notice of the geollemait from
PeDnsylTania, [Mr. 0*LLATm,] who had spoken
yesterday, in regard to one or two points on thi-
part of the subieel. That gentleman, with all hi
regard for the honor and interest of this country,
hmi said, it was so indjspensablv important that
free ships should make free goods, that the nego-
tiator ought never, never to have abandoned that
demand. Mr. Q. said, he wonid not undertake to
say how unquestionable, or how really important
sooh a stipulation would hare been to us, or not.
Enough had been said, however, by others, at
least, to lessen our opinion of iis conseqaence, and
to show the impropriety of hariog insisted upon
it, in the present mom^t, as a sine qua wm. Yet,
that enlightened gentleman, although be admits
that Qrcat Britain could not, and would not have
eonseoteti to it in the negotiation, tells us. that the
negotiator ought never to hare given it up. We
luld have settled no Treaty at all with that na-
tion without £uch a stipulation. Sir, said Mr. O.,
such reasoning be dictated by that regard for
the honor and interest of our country, which that
gentleman speaks of 7 What I should we have-
abandoned all ideas or endeavors for retriburioo-
and justice from that nation, and of accommoda-
of old broils and controversy with her, be-
she would not consent to yield to us a-
elaim— a privilege which we have no right to de-
mand 1 Because she woald not consent, at that
lime, to change a principle of the Law of Na-
liouB — a Law of Nations which we had most ex-
plicitly avowed and recognised 1 Because, in the
height of a tremendous war she would not con-
sent to surrender to us a great and important
weapon of her defence, to which she was indis-
putably entitled ? Surely that gentleman cannot
erious, when he says the negotiator ou^ht ne-
lo have given this up. Sir. said be, let it be
observed, that this stipulation has never been
vielded to us by any oation iu time of war. And,
lei it be also observed, that Great Britain, who
, and would not, during the war, relin-
quish this weapon of defence, has actually stipu-
lated to treat and negotiate with us in respect to
this very object, after the war in which she is now
engaged is over. And here, I beg leave, said he,
to remark, ooce for all, in regarifto the negotia-
tor, that, notwithstanding all the base and vile
calumnies which had been insinuated, and insid-
iously propagated to criminate and stigmatize
that worthy, that long-tried Americanpatriol.it
was, in his judgment, and would be unequivocally
allowed by all but thd malevolent, in respect to
this claim of making free ships free goods, as well -
as in respect to the various other parti of this
Treaty, conspicuoustjr evident, that lutriotism,
skill, forecast, discemine and correct judgment
had marked bis conduct, oy limiting the operation
in point of time to everything as short, as proper,
which was not in its nature permanent, ana
clearly certain in its eligibility for this country ;
and, in so managing the most difficult negotia-
tion as to maintain, honorably maintain and in-
sure the neutrality, peace, and interest of his
country, and for which, he said, he did nof, for his
own pert, hesitate to say, he felt grateful to the
genius of his country, and could not. to gratify any
feelings of the malevolent, withhold this declara*
lion of his own sentiments.
As to the ten preceding articles of the Trea-
ty, Mr. G. said, ai they relate'd to permanent
:>bjects, therefore they bad been considered, ai
was proper, and made equally (rermaneDt.
It was well known to every citizen of America,
who had at all reflected on the subject, Mr. G.
said, that the inexecution of the Treaty of Peace
made in 1783, had occasioned the mo«t ardent
disputes and bickerings between the two nations;
haa foi many years already embittered the two
Governments with each olber^ that crimination
and recrimination had served only to exasperate
their respective dispositions ; that, at length,
amidst the general conflagrations, wars, and depre-
dations of the Europeans, together with lODie ap<
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Exem^m ^^ritUh Trta^-
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peannces ot [WliBiity iiiKDifealedj in wme ia-
■tances, al least, by ibe people of this couatiy
(bow justifiable he would not pretend to say) to-
wards »Wie of the beltigereDt Powen', the BrilUh
■poiialiops at sea on our cotomcrce commenced,
ana eicited iti erery American bosom aairresisti-
^e aaimosity and mdi^tiatioa againsl the British
nation. In this situation, sir, neKOtiaiion or hos
ulity, he said, seemed the only alternaliies.
This House, indeed, he nid. not then possessing
pt claiming any Treaty ina^ing powei, did pro-
poie certain other means to atenge ourselves in-
directly of Qreat Biiiain, and impel Lerfiom acts
gf injustice and violence against m. These
means then proposed by this House were, restric-
Sions on her Irsde^ sequestration of all British
iebtx and property in this country, and finally, a
■uspension of all trade and intercourse with her.
One of those measures — that of suspending all
intercourse — was adopted, and sanctioned bv a
majority of this House at that tine ; bnl the olW
branch of (he Legislature not concurring with us
in sentiment in respect to that measure, advised,
adopted, and pursued immediate and direct nego-
tiation- Such was our situation at that time,and
•uc^, he said, was the process qow fiesh in the
feelings and recollection of ever v gentleman on
that flobr. These proceedings nave often been
alluded to in the course of ihe debate, he said, and
be would soon make some remarks also upon themi
but he would Sral obaetve. that the Treaty under
consideratitHi bad been tne result, which every-
Iwdy knew, of that negotiation. Tbe permaneut
articles, except as to the claim of compensation
for the negroes carried oS by tbe British army, be
said, embraced and provided for the great points
in controversy between (he two nations, and, he
believed, on fair and eguitaUe grounds.
Tbe objection so much urged — the want of
compensation for the negroes, Mr. G. said, had
been already m fully considered, so soundly dis-
cussed by one of his friends from Connecticut,
tud so much to his satisfaction, tbat he would not
undertake to re-«xamiije this question. He would
obeerve, however, in answer to the gentleman
lately up from Pennsylvania, tbe other day, on
thli point, that if the arguments of his friends, de-
aerved any sort of weight, in respect to this ob-
jection, there could be no possible ground to sup-
port that gentleman, in saying it was originally
intended, and so understood^ Inat this claim was
(0 be considered as the equivalent and set-off for
the paymenl of the debts due to British creditors.
Indeed, Mr. O. said, if those arguments of his
friends could be considered as well founded, there
^uld remain no ground at all to support this
(UBim. At any rate, it was abundantly apparent
to his mind, he said, that so questionable a claim
was properly relin<)uisbed, it being no fit founda-
tion for a just, serious, national prosecution. A
new, and. oe nelieved, before unlhaught of prop
to this fallen claim had, be said, been yesterday
applied hy ibe gentleman from Pennsylvania. He
had not. indeed, r^d any taws on that point, but
leferred to VatUl, and other writers on public law,
]|rbo^he said, considered xlaves as real estate} not
at penonal property, liable to bootj by tbe li^Ui
of war and conquesL Mr. G. said, ba bad wK
time to examine the doctriae or the principle* oC
tbe law ejc pott timaaium, which he ooneeiTed
did by no means apply, eten asallowed and pnw-
tised hy the ancient law of natioas. Mi. G. wid,
if the question could at all depend on tbe (mat,
whether those negroes were real estate, aod not
personal property, it could not be contaded by
any law oi rule of properly in tbe United Siaie^
that negro slaves were any other tttan penoeml
property, which always went to the executor, >hI
never to the heir, as such. He hoped, therefore,
that gentlemen would not rely upon any oppoNle
¥inciple, which in this .country did not axial.
his objection lo the Treaty, he said, be hoped
would no longer be considered as insuperable.
The Treaty of 1783, as is well koown, noit
pointedly stipulated on the part of tbe Britiah, n
surrender of all tbe posts and garrisons within
the territory ceded to us by that Treaty ; on tbe
other hand, we as pointedly stipulated on our paK
payment of all British debts, &«, j it is a guaran-
tee against all legal impediments to their rtaai-
ery. We all know, every body knows, that thcH
two important stipulation* of that Tr«aiy, re-
maining unfulfillrd lo this day, have been tbe
>ctentioD by aa peifeetuid
with the sjaitit and effect of theformeisiipulatiooa?
It really seemed so to him. He was awaie aS
what certain genileraen had said to the caBtnry,
and would, in as few words as poaaihle, consider
their objection in this regard.
It is stipulated by ihia Treaty, on tbe put of
Ibe United Slates, that in all ca»ea where foil
compensation for toMes and damages caqnot be
had b^ the British creditors, by reason of legal
impediments, the United States will make coat'
pensatioD. Nobody will prfeteod that tbia en-
gagement is unjust, or uareasonable, or caniniy
to tbe spirit of the stipulation of the fntnei
Treaty ; it is no other than the original contract
between Ihe debtor and the creditor, and to be r«-
garded as intended by such contracU independ-
ent of tbe acts or quarrels of the respective nar
Sir, said he, no sound, nor in fact, ostemiibl^
abjection could be, or bad been, urged against the
Erinciple of this stipulation. Certain geniiemen
ad, indeed, made a most frigbtfuL and, as ha
ibought, exaggerated sialemeni of tne probable
amount of debt, ultimately payable by the United
States in pursuance of this stipulation ; but tbe
unequal bargain, tbe want of reciprocity in i«-
gard to these principal stiptUatioss, baa bae*
urged. It is said, that to hare mad.e the bainia
equal, the British, on the same principle, ougbt U>
have allowed us damages for the detnuion of tb*
posts. Mr. G. said, that as an American, be
should have readily accepted of suob an allow-
ance, though he douoted very much •« in the pr»-
cifc sinularitjr of principle in the tw9 jcwcft uJ
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SmmUm* if BrUuh aVM^r.
Briliih utMB fdt no oUi|iaii««,
citbn fron monl itetitaife, er phf lieal neeenily,
of Bwking UT suoh aUvwiuwe. Od the whole,
be mM penuooed that, in thb partiealar, we had
the batof the baraun,UMl ia fact acquired Tsatly
mDre,u he wonS endeavor to make appareot,
tbaa we eouU lose.
The gettlbowin from Virginia (with whom the
gvatleman vesterdaf from PenneylTaniaallogether
i^reed) had aaid, that altbeoKb the poei* were by
■upiUlioo, MOW to be actDalljr aurrendered, yet
they wera ao loaded with eonditiona and shackles,
M to be of no valae to as i bat the fallaey aod
weakDew ot this i^iiira, bud already been well
«xp(iaeJ br some of hie oollmguei, as well as
other gentlemen ; and be would also eiamine the
olqection a little &tther. What are tbeee coodi-
lioDS, theM degrading abaoklse, whieh so impair
the Table of theae poeto? It woold be Tery diffi-
cnlt, bf the deacriptioa tbey hare civmi, to dia-
<0ver them, bai he wotild look for them.
The Briluh aetUers, by this Biipolaiicn, were to
be pcoueied, iod to enjoy unmoleeted their pro-
pertfj and to hare the option ot beeomiog Ameri-
can ettiteu, ornot. Thi«agi«ettent,onour pert,
Hr. €t. «aid, had been oicd by Iboee gratkmen ai
an impairing ^Tonmstaoee lo the valin of the
niB, andua dishonorable degrading condition,
ad leemed to him, thai ihoee gentMmen enters
tained rery extnordinary eeBtanenta of honor
Mid degfadalioa, if they wonld deeta this a deba-
■iiig reatrietioD, ot oonsider a thing eo eound in
point of pt^y, at well at watiee, an infringe-
ment of right. Thii «H the Mme pidioy «nd
iustiee whioh these people and ifaair predeoeeeorB
bad) imdar tinilar eiMOmetaneet, upoo like ooea-
sioDa (as had bee* already obaerred) always her»-
lofere enjoyed, nor oould it peeetbly be couidered
a* either reducing the ratoe t£ tte potts, or de-
grading to the United States ta allow it;
The geatleman from Penneyi^tiua had said
yceierday, that it onght to hare been left to lu
altogether to bhre permitted thoM people to re-
Ukain there end vnjaf their property, or not ; that
thai they might now still retain tboir inSuenoe
with the BativeSjBBd eseite dialurbaneca and hoa-
Llity. He would Dfaoerre to that gentleman, ibat
tboM peonle would be altD{[eihBr in oar own
power ana jurisdiction ; a*d if they excited dis-
turbances, iniarteelioD, or hoettiity, might be
•pprrbeaded, broaght to trial and if conrieied,
would be pardooed or puniifaed ; whieh that gen-
man mnat know, eod a little recoUeotioa might
set him tight.
Tboce opposite geatbrnea bad ake a^ed aiw
Iber ciroumaiaoee, whieh aapeaMd to him more
•bwrd and exttaordinuy stiU. Ji had been said,
thai tlM free comraunioatioo, and cooameicial ii»-
Urcourse allowed by the ttipubnioa to all the
■ativee and iababitanls <tt the two adioaBtag and
mpeelice Tcrriiorics; and by which, Aal im-
mense interior world was laid open to the trade
ot th« United Stales, w«s, ia efeot. impaiiing to
m, and destroFJu Ine value of the peeU: tlie
absatdity ef Wbict, bowener, bad been weU ax-
aad cMinion estperiencc^ hardly required sertons
ooasideTaticai.
Mr. O. said, he begged leave, howerer, te oIk
serre, that perhaps not leas than nine-tentbe ef
all the valoable tur Hade lay within British North-
westero Territory; and, by (bis stipaletioD of free
trade, matnl, unrestricted intercourse, was hid
open upon an infallible principle of peace and
harmony to this eouatry. On this point of view,
therefore, not ORly a.i it respected the adveniages
of that liade, but esp^ially as it regarded peace,
harmony, and friendly eommunicstioDs with the
oatiTsa ^d inhabitants of that eocintry, Mr. O.
said, be coosideied this stipulation, of all nthets,
the most piecious and iateresiiag to the Uniiea
States. Indeed, xir, had the ^ts been sarren-
dered only,with«Qt this free reciprocal interconrse
S -anted, he should bare considered the United
tates in respect to the Air trade, and commercial
■dvanlages of that interior country, in respect to
the quietude and security of our frontiers, iu respect
to peace end harmony with the iodians, and in re-
gard to all our future prospectf from aueh peace
and security, in little or no better condition thas
before. All which now seemed to him to be set-
tled and secured, upon the only proper basis of
securing the blsKinge of peace, commerce, and
prisperity, to the respective end adjoining Terri-
tories, the basis of mutual intcrcoorse, multial in-
terest, and similar favor. Sir, those ^ntletaea
who DOW seemed to value the acquisition of the
posts and (he Indian trade to very little, would do
well, he thought, to reoolleet htnr very widely
they differ in sentiments in this particulsr, from
the common feeling and opinion of all America,
manifested ever siace the peace. From the state
with
the natives, ealcnlaling the loaaea only, without
CuantiDg the fur trade and eomiceree of that im-
mense country at anythins, we might pretty mo-
derately eatimaie iheir value at more than three
millions of dollan per anuuHi. The Indian wm-,
alone resulting from sceb a state of things, besides
all iu iasepanble oalamities, we may rate at one
miliioQ ana a half; the prodigious lerrilory letdy
E arc based of the Indians of more than ten raif-
ons of mettB, and just determined to be exposed
10 sale at not less than two dollars per acre,
amounted to above twenty millions of dollara.
Were we only to lay out of the interest of the
moBev, we uiiobt rate it at nearly onanillion and
a hair more. This eakulationof thecoascquMoe
of those po«ts, and hartaoDy with the natives,
woiild thus be to us at least three millions annu-
ally; but we may properly ealcalalc the loss and
depteciatioD of all our other Westera Isndi, from
one extreme point of the frontiere to the «thei^
whioh would be the inevitable efiect of an ludiaa
war : of this none woold doabL When we eea-
sider that our lata paeiSMtioa with the ladiaH
was retained in cooaeqaenoetrf this Treaty wtlh
Qieai Britain, we otight not to heshate m eo»<
eluding, that a rejeelion «f tbjs Treaty would ?»•
duse us baok agaia to the former state of thiiin
aa wail in reqwot M the aavagw^ m tbeif sei^
.dbyGoogle
1211
HISTORT OF CONGROas.
H.orR.]
Executimi »f BritiA Tnatg.
|ApRl^l7«aL
bora and protectors, the Briliih. 1<'rDm this trao'
uent view of the niEre amauot of pouiive losses,
without regard to the iDDumfrable, inseparable
calamities of en Indian war, aod witbout regard
(o any prospect of commercial advantages, we
coold very moderately esllmate the ralue of tbe
posts and peace with the savages at nothing less
than three roillioos annually. Will genlietnen
seriously contend that this ia of little consequeace
to us, not equal to the payment of British debts,
wbicii no honest debtor would wish to Withhold 1
Surely they will noL It might not be amiss for
those ceutlemeii to recollect the Spanish Treaty,
80 highly estimated, and to considrr of what little
ooDsequence to lu it may be, in ease of the re-
jection of this Treaty with Great Britain ; their
irritation and retention of the Western posts, the
general excitement again of the Indians, and a
universal savage war upon our frontiers, infesting
our Northern, Eastern, Western, and Southwi^M-
em Territories. That, in such case, the Western
Lakes, those interior oceans, must still remain
useless, and the invitiug waters of the Mississippi
and Ohio roll to waft our commerce in vain. Mr.
O. said, he would not consider how much uur
Treaty with Algiers, and our prospects from thai
quarter, might also be affected in consequence of
a rupture, or contention again with Qreat Bri-
tain j but, at the same time, he thought that con-
sideration was Dot to be entirely disregarded.
There was one objection, which had been
peatly dwelt upon, and considered as an alarm-
ing circumstance, particularly to North Carolina.
It was that part stipnlating that American citi-
zens and British subjects, who now bold lands in
the Territories of the United Bistes. or in the do-
minion of Great Britain, shall still continue to
hold them, according to the nature and tenure of
iheir respective estates and titles therein.
Certam gentlemen say, that they really do noi
know, but fancy it may throw one-half of thi
lands of that State hack again ioto the hands of
British subjects, the former proprietors. As this
abjection has already been considered, and will
be more particularly examined bv gentlemen pre-
pared on tlie same point, who will prolmbty spesk
af^er roe on this subject, I will not detain the
Committee long in respect to it. He would ask,
however, if gentlemen of legal information could
possibly entertain any serious alarm of that sort?
' He thought not. The words nsed in this article
in thin respect, were words of precise meaninK-
They were technical terms, aud perhaps, of all
others, least liable to peryerMon. He would ask
those alarmiug gentlemen whether those British
subjects to which tbey allude, actually do, or do
not, now bold those lands? ' If not, surely, they
would not be alarmed. He considered the article
only to extend to such lands as were now boita
fide, by good and lawful title, actually held by the
present owners according to existing laws. It is.
udeed, a little remarkable, that these olarmiog
nntleraen, who do not pretend to know whether
their apprehensioiu be well founded or not, yet
however errooeoas it may be, however repugnant
to eOBUMB legal undemanding or technical senae.
they re'y upon the objection with as much confi-
dence and mflexibility, as if there could exist no
doubt of snch eonstroccioD or intent. He raid he
was persuaded there was no ground for such opin-
iin, and that it was urged from ircorrect know-
ledge of the subject, or from a design to alarm.
With these remarks on some of the principal
points of the Treaty, he raid he would quit any
further observations relative to its merit*. But,
sir, its expediency. espe?ial:y since it has been
made, ratified, and exchanged, is quite nnothet
consideration. A consideration of infinite im-
portance to the internal peace, happiness, and
prosperity of America, as well as to her external
character, her faith, her honor, respectability, and
glory ; but as so much already had been said on
that head, he would pass it over, and close bia
observations with some remarks touchii^, in his
opinion, the real grounds of the very in&exibte
optJOsitioD now made to the Treaty.
tie had already noticed, he said, the peculiar
indisposition of this House towards the Treaty.
It was also observable, that moch of the same bit-
terness and indisposiiion had been transfused, and
in some parts of the Union parlicuUrty, more or
less imbibed by the people — whose zeal wiihoat
any reflection intended on their sovereign re-
spectability, may be considered as not always ae-
cordtDg to knowledge or (rue wisdom. But why
should that House with all its ioformBlion and
intelligence, continue their extreme indispositiaD,
and manifest such bitterness on the subject 1 Sir,
had I been, from my own observations, and recol-
lection of recent transactions within my ovm
knowledge, entirely at a loss to account for a
thing so extraordinary, I nhould have been clearly
satined of the cause, from the highest evideikee^
resulting from what had been detailed on this
floor. This was a moment in which he eooaidered
it a duty iueumbeDt on every one to apeak bit
sentiments and act with decisioa. He ahonld
freely declare his opinion. Sir, have we not re-
peatedly been told in the course of this detiaie,
that the measures heretofore proposed by this
House, to which lie had before alluded, were
means which ought to have been pnrsned? Have
we not been told that they wer« calculated to
have procured a quiet redressofall our com|daiDti,
to have satisfied all our claims ? And have we
DOt been lold that iboae measures had b*en im-
properly arrested from this House by the Pbebi-
DENT and Senate? And have we not heard the
same means again recommended as initaUe Aw
the Government of this country to adopt f Sir,
have we not been lold on this floor of the paailla-
nimity of the late measures of nagotiation ; and
have we not heard it said that this Treaty had
been conducted with pusillanimity, and wna now
to be carried into effect through fear? And, sir,
have we not heard it insinuated that it was the
effect of part^ spirit, combined with British in-
fluence and intrigue, to oppresa and debilitate
Fmnce? After all this, can there be any hesita-
tion in the mind of any candid obaerrer, to sc>
count for the inflexiUe opposition 1 He said be
thought not, txti thoa ma eritieni, inpcrtMl ob-
izcdbyGoOgle
ISIS
mSTOItY OF COKDSESS.
IftU
Arxih 1796.]
ExeciOitm of SritiA TVecUy.
CH.-ofB.
■erver of tbese tbinga, would hesitate to aacribe
the remarkable indUpositioo of ibis Ho«ie to tbe
Treaty, less to the merits of the Treat^r itself,
than to tbat pride of opinioD, disa|^iatmeptol
favorite meHsurea, and feelings of iadigoation in
this HouM, from beiDg overruled by tbe other
branches of tbe QoTerntneot, who differed with
them in opinion upoB tbat occasion, and who ad-
Tised, adopted, and steadily pursued direct and
immediate Degoliation. He had no hNit«tion to
declare that he verily beliered thi» was the real
source of tbe bitter aud infiesible opposition now
made to the Treaty ; and be hoped that the geou-
ine, sober citizens of Aoierica. as well as tbe sur-
rounding world, would never be mistaken for the
real cause of the conduct of the House on this
occasion. For bis own part, be was ready to be
tried by God and his country, who, he hoped and
believed, would not be deceived. Gentlemen who
are averse to tbe Treaty, and advise itsevoidaoce,
treat with contempt and iDdignaiion all appcS'
faensioDS sugitested by others of national hroih,
contention, and war with Great Britain, or of
commotions among ourselves. Admittipg that
there really was no ground for such apprebenaiong
in the opinions of those who tbus treat those sug-
Estinns, certainly we who entertain such appre-
□sions would be criminal and faithless to oui
country, indeed, should we not express them with-
out reserve 1 He hoped that sentlemen, however
brave and hardy, for themselves, would permit
sober reflection to suggest and weigh all these
thiags.
Sir, »Bid he, if we resist and nulLfr this Treaty,
let me ask seriou^y what means, ana in what way
we are to pursue redress for ell the injuries, out-
rage*, insults, and depredations, received from the
British nation ; be said tbey were too intolerable
for any nation on earth and he thouithl not to be
submitted to by Americans; but be said he could
conceive of no other possible ways for redress,
and satisTsction, than negotiation, or hostility.
Tbe effect of the former, we now have before us;
and shall we refuse this, and risk the result of the
latter? Ood forbid 1 He hoped our understand-
ings were not so bewildered ; our virtue, our rea^
■on,and our feetmgs of morsi rectitude not so im-
paired. He should with confidence, therefore, ex-
pect tbe resolution before them would obtain.
When Mr. Gilbert had concluded —
Mr. Tbact said, he would, for the present,
waive any observations on tbe impropriety of the
minute discussion, which had been given by the
House of Representatives to tbe Treaty, and uke
notice of some objections which had been slated
against the ninth article, which follows,
■■ It is ap*«^ Ibat British ml^teU who now hold
lanb hi tb« Territories of Che United etaiss, snd Ame-
rkan* who now hold lands in tbs domuiioni of Bis
H^ei^, shall cMitJnne to hold dnm according to the
' « and iMinn of thsir Mapeettre sstates and litlM
' ; and nu; grant, ssU, or devise the same to
like BiannuT ss if they wera US'
« th^ ner diair h«r>
, spaet Iho said lands an
tt dM**tOtlM regudnl m tlk
He said, it bad been urged, tiiat the ancient
proprietary claims in this country, were, bjr this
article, reviewed and confirmed, especially in all
cases where a special confiscation bed not been
completed antecedent to the Treaty of Peace in
1783; and that the Slate of North Carolina
would suffer incalculable injuries by the claim of
the Grenriile family.
He would attempt to show, tbat the State (ri
North Carolina, by the act of Independence, on
tbe 4th day of July, 1776, succeeded^ to the title
of all proprietary claims to lands then existing,
in the same manner as tbey did to the title M
those vacant lands, commonly known by tbe name
of the Crown lands. He believed this would
lileoce every objection; but he thought be could
further show, that the State of North Carolina
had actually confiscated the lands which were
claimed by the Earl of Grenville, as lord
proprietor.
He trusted, that if he were able to evince these
two points, it would be easy to show, that this
' ~h article of the Treaty would be harmless to
Stare' of North Carolina, as he would be able,
he thought, to prove most explicitly, that the arii-
ele gives no new title, nor strengthens any exist-
ig title, but barely confirms a right to those wh«
_3W bold lands, to grant, sell, or devise, and to
them, their heirs, and assigns, the legal remedies
incident thereto, which might otherwise have
become objects of dispnie and controversy.
Mr. T. supposed there would be no difference
of opinion in the Committee upon the following
position, viz : that tbe proprietors in this country
held their laitds under the Government of Great
Britain, with many of tbe prerogatives of royalty.
This would appear as Well from the grants them-
selves, as from the practice under those grants:
all escheats in a particular maauer went to the
lord proprietor, and not to the King. This idea
was certainly adopted in North Carolina, as they
have a Atatote spMially recognising the principle,
and regulating tbe practice which may be found
in the 16th page ot their statutes, as revised by
Judge Iredell, in 1791. In this view of the subject,
a lord proprietor might be cousidered as possess-
ing a sovereignty as lord of the soil, so far as bis
preprietary interest extended.
Upon a revolution and formation of another
Government, the newly-established sovereignty
mtist certainly, from tbe nature of the transaction,
succeed to the right of soil of all sueh lands as
had not been granled to individual*, whether they
had before b^ vested iit tbe Crown or proprie-
The proceediivs of the State of North Caro-
lina, would Justify bis idea on this subject. In
the Bill of Righu adopted by that State on the
17th December, 1776, which was aAerwards ia-^
corporated into, aitd made part of their CoDstito-
tion, it was expressly deelved, that the property
of soil in a fnw Goremtnent was one or the e>-
•eatial rights of the eoUeetive body of the people;
Rafter stating several lines and boandariee]) it was
deeiared that all ike Territories, dfcc, lying be-
twaen those Uitn, ware thft ri^t aid property of
.d by Go Ogle
iHf
tVFCO]
S-opR.]
^SfitM Timlf.
t)w people of the StbU, to be held b]r tken in
aorereigoty: Provided (unong ottter tbiogs) llut
nothiu contained in said Bill a[ Ri^U akonld
mSect tbe titles or pwiewiov of iadtTiduab hoU*
ing ot elauting uoder the lam, before that time
in ioroe, oi sranta made before that time, by the
kta Kinc George the 3d, or hi* piedenKois. or
the late lords proprietoti, or any of thcnt, page
376 of the book above qwotcd.
la November, 1797, the LegUl&tnra uf North
CaroUae passed an act, opening a lead office for
•Btriei of daimi to all vacant land* not before
nted by tbe Crown of Great Britain, or the
I proprietors of Carolina, or any of them, in
£ee, before tlte 4th day of July, 177&, (page 2S2)
and in the same statute (pa«« 396) refereooe was
bad to such peffons who had receired graals from
Sad Qrenville, wboae ri^t had lapeed for want
of auing out a patent, nnl giving them a prefer-
Mtce to others. In respect to making cotriea of
the fame lands, and ia page 368, there was an ex-
lilaDMor^ ant pused, mace pnrlicBlarly rcsala-
ting enlriea on lands formnly the property ^ the
yiimrietoi, Earl Oren*Uk.
He BUDposed the eonclwion irresistibta, that
the Legi^ture of North Canihua eoBsidered the
£t«Xe aa tucceediog, by the act of Independence,
(e all the title of unlocated lands, whether before
that time claimed by the Grown or Earl Qren-
TiUe, and he cenEended that the idea was correct,
and to hi» knowledge had never been dispaied in
•aaeawhete the lord proprietor was not n Msidenc.
It wa* true, in Pennsylvania a compromise wa«
made with the lesident Penn Ihmily : but the Bal-
ItmoM and Fairfex families, who were proprialon
in Maryland and Virginia, were non-vesidents.
The Slate of Harylaad had eonfiaeated the lands
of the Baltimore family, and they had obtaitml
aatisfaelioa from the British Traaavy. This, he
believed, but wtmld net aatert was the fact rela-
tive to the Fairfax &Buly. He aaid he had like-
wise seen a sutement of a claim of Lord Oren-
TtUe^ heira, and thought they bad received cam-
fenaatioa from tlie Parliament of Great Btitain
«f £60,000 sterling; bat of tiiis be waa not poai-
IiT«, vet believed be coald find the fto stibsiao-
tiated hv ambeatic docnneMs. All iheae faeu,
he urged, combined in proving hii idea, that the
State ef North Caceliaa, as a aoveieignty, sdc-
eeedcd to all the titlea the fiarl of OraiTina had
to lands within the State, on the 4d) day of Joty,
1776, and that it waa, an«l ever had been, so con-
aidered by all parliea, and by thia aad-^ British
QoverDioent.
He ihoagbt this conclosive as to a complete n-
liaguiahmem of theBarl of OrenTtlle's ttlle m that
ri his heita; hot facts would joiitify him in gdwg
fiiMber, and declaring tha ngkia of tbe Earl of
Ureoville and hia heirs lo ba4« been coitAscaCed.
aad ia that way vealad in tbe Btatc of Nonh Ca-
•elina.
Mo pertoB wonld donbt the rlgbt of the Stale to
apofiaeatr. If tbay had the r^it. there waa b».
Uing neoaaMry bu an eiertioa of that rigU.
This, he nmd, night be daaa la a gveal Tariet*
flfaudeaf iftheaialrdMaataaMrttbtcMf
alitaiion that they were forfeited or vacant, and
that they were vested in the Saate, as th«y bad
done in this oaae } be could not say such an act
fell ahott of all the operative powen of confis»
tion ezereised in any other made; hot if a uiHe
formal mode ot coooMalion was contended fcr, he
thought the act of confiscation, passed ia 1777,
pa^e 341, of the book above quoted, would place
this matter in a still clearer point of view. By
this act, "all lanas, tenements, dbc., wiibin the
State of North Carolina^ and all and erery right,
title, and interest therein, of which attf perwtm
was sailed or posseased, or to which onf permm
had title, on the 4thdayof Jojy, 1776, who on tbe
•aid day was absent from the State <k North Ctp
relioa, and every part of the United States, and
who BtiJl was," &£., Ac. " Shall end are hereby
declared to be confiscated lo the use (rf* the 8ta^
unless thete should be an appearance at a fe-
lure day, to do certain acts," which will .not be
pretend were done by any peraoa claiming ^
der the jwoprietary ri|[fat.
And in oage 364, there waa another net, whieb
was passed after the time mraiioned in the former
act bad elapsed, for persons coming into tbe Stale
and dotDg certain acts to save their rights, (via:
in 1779,) in which it was exprcsdy declared, aU
the laods, Ac, of any aoch persona who had not
come into the State as aforesaid were forfeited n>
and for tbe use of the State.
Mr. T. urged that tbe words made nse of in
these several confiscating acta, weee sufficiently
extensive lo reach aU poaeiUe cIbibib, either A
the Grown or of the lord proprietor, an j to evince
that the State of North Ganlina so nnderatood i^
he quoted another statute, page S3S, in which are
these words :
leads which have not bean granted by Ae Ctowd af
Orsat Britain or &a loeda peopiistors of North Cara-
lina, or any of iksni, in fca, before dw Ml day of My,
ITTO, A«.,ahaU be aoM lij rraiiaiiawniinia i aw
bKaiaafler dbwlad."
Why sbonld tbey say, " aQ lands heretofore eon-
fiHcated and not sold, except »uch lands," &c^ A^
scribing the verv land claimed under iheproprieta-
rv right 1 It could not be made plainer, he thought,
that they considered all the lands within their li-
mits, not owned by individuals on the 4tb of July,
177^ as having vested in the State, withoot any
other confiscating act than that of eslabliatiog aa
office for sales; and that afterwards they considered
iheir particular confiscation acts as extending to
such laiids, but adopted a different Hode of sale
from that of lands which had oa the'4tb iidy,
1776, belonged to individuals.
NeLhing,tohiitwad. waa moKcJtsr than thai
these ideas ware ooneet. and that aU tba tlai^
oftbafBoailyoftba Bail cf Orcaailla waa asm-
^1^ vaaied in tba etme of Noab OaioliiiB.
Bat if asy doubt oauU ytt maaiai be beQel
leowe Id qaete aaortier aiwbeaiqr-ftem tbeaaoie
b«»k,F« ■*■ -"^^
.dbyGoogle
UtU
imv€sa< OF QONtBimm*
MtS
Extadim i^ B*ituk IVttcif.
ring kU ri(ht to bdMt ot makt eUim to an; Iwids,
teaemenM, Ac, but wilhia mtsd years next after
■obh ri(ht tkhould aceiae^with a pro riso, gi ring
(anwog othet tbing*) " eight yean to person* be-
yoDd teaa to enter and oujtn, aftai tluir titU or
claim hecomu due,"
Mr. T. nid. be iboutd bare entertained no
doobt of tbe concliudtencai of tbk RUtQie bat for
some iniimaiiaiMsiren bim by a guttlemui froon
Nonb Carolina, [Sir. TAT0ii.]that a construction
had been put npoo thix lUiutc of this kiod, riz:
eight years afler the perMos retaraed from be-
yond seas, were meant to be giren him te make hi«
claims. This eoostruciion. Mi. T, oboe rred, might
be just ; but it w«« singalar that one y^r more
sbould be given to a peraoD who liai been beyond
seas than to the cilizens at home ; and he omerT'
ed, further, upon looking into the index of the sta-
tute book, the words are, "Persona beyond seas
may enter or sue within eight years after tbe title
accrues." He tbooght that the obTious coDsirnc-
lioo of the words in the statute, " tUle or claim
beetmet dm," but upon looking into the index,
which was made by that accurate gentleman,
Judge Iredell, who perfectly knew the cmstrue-
tion which had been giren to that staiote, as it
had been in existence erer since the year 1716,
excepting a suspension of eight years during the
war with Great Britain, he could not bring his
mind to doubt but that his construction of tbe
statute was correct; and, if so, all title to [hone
lands which may ever have been vested in the
Earl of Qrenrille's family must now be destroyed
by the limitatioD ; as toere is no pretence tbe
owner of this land was, at tbe close of the war, a
minor, feme covert, fion compof mttuit, or intpri-
toned, which are the only exceptions in the sta-
tute, exceptias; being beyond the seas, which last
exception he had spoken of above.
Mr. T. said, an objection had been started by a
gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Oallatin,]
that IT this properly had been confiscated, yet as
there had been no decisions of Court which he
[Mr. Oallitih] coiled Jinduig OA oj^Ece, the con-
fiscation was not complete, and of coarse was ar-
rested by the Treaty of Peace.
It was, in the first place, not necessary that any
legal process of a Court or Jury shottld be had for
tbe purpose of vesting tbe title to those lands in
the Slate of North Carolina. In Eo^nd, when
a title escheats to tbe King, he cannot enter or
seize upon any nan's possession without oftee
(bund, »r in other words, without the inCerveBti'in
and finding of a Jury j ^t in case of attainder fur
high treason, tbe forfeiture is instantly tocorrBd,
and the King is vested without any inauisition
of office; andin all cases where an act ot Parlia-
ment confiscates, unless in the same act, as in the
statute 18th Hen. 6th, chap. 6th, i( is declared no ti-
tle shall vest in the King until office found. It
would be foand tbe titlevesiedimmediatriy inlhe
Kins.
Mr. T. said, he had not attended to the legal
course of proceedings in England with a parliou-
lar view to this subject, but, from general recol-
lection, he thought that in England, in all cases
of taadsr Ac., to the Kiu. sMh u wb«n
purchases, or when tbe King'stanaotdiaa
Hin,aadawh like oases, the King could notion
on stMh land* without tbe finding of a jwyt
bat in all ooms w^«re the finding of a jury had
aacerlained a crime by which a forfeiture bccriot
to the King, he thon^l that tbe finding of tha
iory was considered as on inquest of office. Bat,
let tbe law of Eogland be wiiat it mi^t, it was &
fact that 10 s«eh eerenoay uan inquest of office
was necessary in the nulln now in qaestion. Tha
Leffislatnre of North Carolina had, by s<rienHi aet^
declared themselves, or the Slate, to be in actual
posseasoa,andtobetihepToptietor of this land; they
hare aotually taken possessiiw, made entry wbA
sale, and put the wtnikasers into possession. In
eases of direct and unequivocal confiscation, ihev
have <k>9»- no more ; asd no mon, he ocBteodM,
could be necessary for makiiw a forfeiture on tha
part of the former owner, anaan' iavesture ia the
Stale complete and perfect. A similar act of
Parliament would have been complete as to Tect-
iog a title in tbe King, and it never bad, m thia
country or in EUigland, been thon^t necesMry to
add to such proceedings an inqoest of office. The
Sntlenian [Mr. Qillatih] bad further said that
s lands formerly held by the Earl of Orenrille
in North Carolioa were excluded by the act of
confiseation itself from its opemtiogs ; and fa*
read a clause in the confiscation act to confirm
that idea.
Mr. T. said he could not discern any such mean-
ing in the law alluded to ; the words were : " All
emriesalreadyiaade, or which aball be made, of
any lands, &c., of the persons aforesaid, (and this
alluded to persODs swcially named in the act,)
which come within toe meaning of the confiaea-
tion act, passed at Newbera in november, 17'77,
or of this act, shall be void and of none effect.''
The act thai proceeded to except, with a apeoial
proviso, the law tor mabag entries on tbe Bail of
QrenTiile's lands; and further declare* all the pro-
ceedings which lud been or should aAertbatttma
be had under that act, t* all inlenis and purpose*
valid. The gentleman [Mr. G&li.4tin] had said
he wu not a lawyer, and, of course, delicacy
would forbid criticisms upon this part of his argu-'
meot. He would only observe, that he ihooght
he had proved himselr no lawyer. But Mr. T.
supposed it not important, even if itwas cattoia
that the lands of the Earl of OrenviUe were ex-
cluded from the confiecation act, as the other act
respecling entries would amount, in its «pei«tioa,
to a complete forfeiture and tavcstment of title;
forfeiture on the part of tbe owners, the heirs of
the Earl of Gfenville, and an investment in the
Stale of North Carolina.
He thought he had shown. 1st That the Gren-
ville's title was of a feudal nature, partaking of
such insignia of royally as that the Lttte of the
owner, he not being a resident, would, of connie,
on the formation of the new Governmeni in 1776,
vest in tbe sovereignty. 2d. That the sovereignly
of North Carolina possessing the right of coufiaea-
(ion, had exerted that right most explicidy. It
.dbyGoogle
mSTOKT OF CONGRESS.
ExtaUi4>H <^ Britiah TVeo/y.
[AFBI^179&
of thin^ with ihe 9ih article of the Treaty, and to
Ibrtn a just idea of the retult.
The words are. '■ BrilUh tiijjecU viKo now hoU
Itmdi," ^. " Etnld," he aaitf, was a technical
]riiraie well uoderstood in England and America
to mean a title complete in itself. The meaning
of it in thii article of the TreatT was well uoder-
tlood Id be, " those persons wno have a title to
lands, this eiistio^ title shall continue as it now
U." If bis reasoning npon the claim of the Qreo-
Tille family bad any foundaticn in truth, they bad
not, at the lime of making the Treaty, the least
shadow of title; they could none of them be said
to " hold" " lands in the territories of the United
States." Therefore, be thought his friends be-
longing to North Carolina might rest easy on the
sutyect
One thing had been said hy Mr. Qallatih
which Mr. T. said be could not comprehend, and
that was, it the Treaty had not provided legal re-
medies for aliens, that any subject of Great Bri-
tain, althongh he might hold lands, could not sue
and recover them, because he might be defeated
by a plea of aHeiwe,- be could not conceive of
■uch a situation; if they "haltf' lands, they have
all the remedies incidental to their holding; if
tber do not " hold," no remedy was in their pow-
er, out it was because no right existed. The 9th
article eertainly gave no new right, as it respected
title ; it might add to the life estate a riffht to de-
vise to aliens, which was the utmost that could
he said of any right being given by this article.
But the Qrenville familv havin{[ no right of any
kind, this article would nave no influence on those
lands once claimed hy them.
Mr. T. said, in discussing a sutijeet which ne-
cessarily drew into it an explanation of statutes,
the operatitm of which, aa explained by legal ad-
judication, with which he was unacc^uainted,
might have led him to erroneous conclosioos, but
he noped the candor of his friends from North
Carolma would induce them, in case of error on
hit part, to set him right. Mr. T. said he would
now make a few observations on some other parts
of the Treaty.
Mr. T. said he would take a cursory view only
of M>me other articles of the Treaty, and certain
obserTBtions which had been made against them.
It had been said, the surrender of the posts was
saddled with conditions, which destroyed the
benefits of the surrender; and much had been said
against leaving it aptmnnl with the British sub-
jects, DOw^ living within the neighborhood of the
posts, to become citizens of the United Slates or
He asked gentlemen if it would have been poli-
tic to have forced those persons to become Ame-
rican citizens, or to have removed to the British
dominions on ihe other side of the line t And
whether, in thii latter case, we should not have
enlisted every man of tbem on the side of our
enemies, and laid a foundation for the excite-
ment of further discontent and war with the In-
dians T A gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr,
Oali^tir] had said, if we could have left thoca
penons in the precite situation that the Treaty
lias, yet why force us hy Trealy to do it ?
If that gentleman's position was jnst, thst we
were now making the Treaty, ana that not so
much as the Tuitwnal faith was pledged, until we
give OUT sanction, why was the word force made
made use of? We were now IVee to act or no^
and he was confldent no belter way conid be de-
vised to treat those persons living m the vicinity
of the posts than that adopted bj the Treaty.
Free intercourse by land, and inland navigation,
Ihe most desirable circumstance which could have
occurred, was said to be a fault in this Trealy.
He obierved, that the Treaty of Utrecht which,
among many other things, established between
France and England aline nearly in the sajne
place, contained a provision nearly in the same
words ; and he beg^d gentlemen to inform him
how they meant to maintain a friendly intercoune
amon^ people who probably would inhabit on each
side ot a line thousands of miles in length, unless
it is free?
It had been said we should be saddled with a
snm of very great amount io British debts, even
15,000,000 of dollars A gentleman from Massa-
chusetu [Mr. Goodhde] had placed this matter
on ihe best probable footing, by stating how mock
annual credit it was usual to obtain from Great
Brilatn, and then assuming one year or one-half
year to be the an;regate ; this, at most, would not
exceed 6,000,000 of dollars for the whole debt, and
allowing interest on the whole, would not make
more th^n 9,000,000 of dollars. This sum was
certainly paid in part, but a part of the remainder
could possibly be embraced, by the provisions t^
the Treaty. How great a aum, in fairness, we
ought to calculate upon, he left gentlemen to de-
cide. If 15,000,000 of dollars was the sum, he
thought the aggregate debt to British creditors
must have been at least 50,000,000 of dollars, if
not 100,000,000. He asked the gentlemen from
the South— for the greater part of the debts were
there — if this amount, or any where near it, had
ever been acknowledged by them, or by Mr. Jef-
ferson, in his statement to the British Minister;
and whether this enormous amount was not, in
some measure swelled, upon tbe present occasion,
to meet the Treaty, a* being the most formidable
weapon of condemoBlion ; and whether, on the
same groand, a decision of Court, on common law
principles, had not been called a legal imptdi-
ment? But he really thought the lum was noian
object, if that sum was to he fairly ascertained j
for if noneNi creditors have been defeated by the
Government from a recovery of debts, why ought
not that Government to indemnify such creditors ?
A gentleman from Virginia [hCr. Nicholab]
bad said tbe Commissioners wnuld probably be
such men, as that we might expect from their de-
cisions, or at leasi fear, partinliiy Io creditors. He
asked ihat gentleman, if there could be a better
plan of adjustment, and if the persons who would
Erobably be appointed Commissi on erv, would not
Bve ebaraeter, repntation, and every thing dear
to roan, at stake, to induce an upright decision ?
He tkonght any man must have been very on-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF COVaiUBSS.
1323
April, 1796.]
S^cution of BritiA TVeoty.
[H.QrR.
fOTtDoUe iodeed, in his interoonrae imon^ hia fel-
low men, to be capable of formiag m eitiinaie bo
degrading to the haman character. Let the gen-
tleman aik his own heart bow he (bould behara
on anch an occasion, and let bim BUppose, as cha-
rily would certainljr dictale, that other men poo-
KMcd honeslf aa well aa himself.
A gentleman from Pennaylrania [Mr. Oalli-
Tin] bad sail) veaterdaf, that the boasted benefits
of tne East India trade, secured to us.by the Trea-
ty, were of little or no consequence; and if we
understood as mnch about it, as we did of ibe
West India trade, that part of the Treaty would
be found B» injurioos to us as the 18th article ;
and that all our merchants were of that opinion.
He tbooghttbisstBiemeniincorrectgin point of fact.
So far as he was acquainted with the 0{Hnions of
the beat-i It formed merchants, they were all in fa-
. ror of the East lodia regalatioas, and the genile-
man from MasMchusetta [Mr. QoonauEl whose
opioioD, as a well-informed merchant, had always
much weifi^ht with all who knew him, had some
days since in public debate, made a similar decla-
Tbat free bottoms should make free goods, had
been reiterated, and this Treaty called a>rery bad
(me, for not eontainiag inch m regulation, in such
solemn language, that he be^ed the indulcence
of the Committee, while he took notice of that
objection.
The sea,he obserredgWas the great hi^way of
the world, and liberty of navigating it was the
right of all nations, and withont molestation to
carry their own property to such places as they
plea3ed,D0t thereby infringing theiigbts of another.
But when two nations are eoniending and at
war, what right, in the nature of things, could
exint in a third nation to interfere, and assist eith-
er of them ? They bad a. right, if they choee to
join one party in the war ; but on the principle
of neutrality, could a right to assist one of them
be said to rxist-7 And if the nation* at war hare
e that right
whenerer they find snch property, not within the
dominions or territory o( a neutral nation 7 He
thought the idea of makingprize of enemy's pro-
perry wherever it was foond, and permitting a
Irieud's properly togo free wherever it was found,
had its foundatioB m the nature of things, and
was with as much propriety ealled one of the
Laws of Nations, as the prohihition to a neutral
nation, to carry military storea to a blockaded
town. He believed, if tbe principle of free bottoms
making free goods was once established as the
Law of Nations, we should find as much evil ex-
iaiing froni overgrown maritime Powers intrigu-
ins to excite war among the natious, which could
aflord them the carrying trad?, as from any other
source. But allowing it to be ever co desirable,
we ought to consider, that for the purposes of mak-
ing a contract, two parties were absolutely neces-
sary ; and that both would possess rights, and
have a voice in tbe bargains. Mr. T. observed, he
had intended to notice what had been said of the
article respecting contrabandgoods,bathe had al-
ready consumed so mnch time that he would omh
it. He requested the p;>iience of the Committee,
while he took a short hut general view of the
Treaty.
The Treaty with Great Britain, he said, how-
ever partiality misht dictate, was in his ouiniona
«>od Treaty, much belter for the Unites StMes
than WB had any reason to expect. He declared he
thought it ought to be adopfed by (he United
States, if they had been ntrong in armies and
fleets, as a much better settlement of our misun-
derstandings and disagreement with Great Bri-
tain, than war could have been, had out strengtit
been in almost any degree great and respectable.
He was not one of those whosediscernment wasso
acute, as to discover destruction and death in thin
Treaty. By this Treaty we gained the Western
posts, which gave us a tolerable security for peace
with the Indians, and a certainty of the commerce
of the We|tern World. New York must becomo
to that country what Venice and Genoa wen
formerly to Europe. We secured toourselves the
East India trade, compensation for the obstruction
made on our commerce, a settlement of disagree-
able and painful controrersiA; peace, and what
added infinitely to the blessing even of peace it-
self, a confidence in our own Oovernment.
We lost nothing by this Treaty, unless it could
be called a loss to indemnify honest creditors
Bgatust tbe operation of laws, which had been dic-
tated by a spirit, not deserving of very flattering
titles. This was, he sard, a general view, and
considering only the leading features of the in-
strument i but an accusation of a very extraordi-
nary nature had been made np against the Treaty,
that no compensation was obtained by it for tbe
n^roes carried away by the British army, af^er
the peace of 1783. ' On this subject, he would
make hut two remarks ; one was respecting a
gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. Madison.] It would
be remembered by many who heard him. that
two years ago, when Clark's intercourse bill, (as
it was called) was under consideration, and when
among other things prescribed in it for the British
nation to do, to prevent us from starving them by
a prohibition of interconrse. a reatoration of ne-
groes was moved, Mr. Madison opposed it, and
made nse of this remarkable expression : " It was
not proper to commit the peace of this country
for an object of ao greater consequence than a
restoration of those negroes, or compensation for
tbem." Heasked thatgentleroao, if itwas now
an object for which the peace of this country
ought to be committed 1 The second observation
he should make, wns in answer to the gentleman
from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Gallatin] who had said
negroes were never lobe considered as "booty"
of wqr ; this was said in answer and by way of
refutation, to the construction given to the words
of the 7th article of the Treaty of Peace, which
were "and His Britannic Majesty shall, with all
convenient speed, and without causing any de-
struction, or carrying away any nettroes or other
properly of the American inhabitants, withdraw
all nis armies," dtc.
Mr. T. said, the construction put upon these
.dbyGoogle
IMS
EHBTOKV CP OOMOflna.
1SS4
EkerKiJ
ExMnititm qf Brkitk TVao^
[Arao, in%.
wot4s hwi bem bo «Ur nuanged by Krenl f|«i)-
tieoien Were him, that QOihinK new could be
■aid apoa the coaatiuctioD) but Mr. QALLATra's
attempt to obriate those argnments, desetTcd no^
tiec. Tlwt geuilevMD had Mid, negroe* wer« not
bootf, »aA quoted fattd ib *uppori of his aaaer-
tMNVBefie« ibe gentlemm weuld have il, ttiU at
tbfrMdof awar thenegTMti VMutberetuTDed an
». Batter of coutae, not resiiig, by the caplnTe,
any right or piojlei'tr in the captor.
Mr.T. noppOMil Ibc woids "other prc^ierty"
woald exclau what wai meaat by negroes in the
Treaty of Peace, but waiving that, he said, VatUi
had no where said, that negroes, or Uave* were
Kot by iheLawofNationi^"booty"Drwv. In page
S84, VatUl in speaking of the manner in which
the RosiBas treated shires taken in war under the
head.of therigbtsofpMlUmimtMn, had said they
were ■omeiimes on a Mtllemant returned to the
forner owaar : but Vatttl hai giTen nf authority
for the assertion made by that geatleman; even
if a alavc taken in battle should not be considered
aa, " booty," yet (hose wbo had repaired to the Bri-
tish staManl antecedent to the peace, in conae'
Juenoe of a proclamuion, promising them free-
om, could Of no powible conttructioB of any
pan of VaiUL be said to be comprehended by
tbKt article 01 ibe Treaty of Peace, if negroes
were properly ; with other properly, the captors
hail a vested right, if meo, no law human or Di-
Tine coutd or oaght to coerce a return to th«ir
former slarery, and no such coastructitm couU,
with a shadow of propriety, be given to the words
of the Treaty.
The same gentlemae [Mr. Gillatin] had said,
the admission of free bottoms making tree goods.
waa in many Treaties of other uaiions with Great
Brkaia, Bbl in ail Treaties made b)[ that nation
Binc,e 1780, excepting alate Convention with Rus-
sia.
Mr. T. aaid, he believed there waa ntri a Treaty
eiisting, to which Great Britain was a party in
which Ibal princifde was recognised.
In the Treaty with the Netherlands, made by
Great Britain many years agOjfor a reason well
kaowa, ii was admitted, that Treaty was tempo-
rary and had long since expired. It was in the
Treaty made wiu France in 1786, ibai had ceas-
ed by the warj it was in a former Treaty with
Russia, which was at an end io the last and exist-
ing Treaty ; between Great Britain and Russia, it
was not adfoitled. The French Treaty was the
(»ly one, within his memory, which Great Bri-
tain had made since 1780, in which such a prin-
ciple was admitted. He coeld not but view such
attempts to bold up an idea, that the Treaty now
under consideration, was singular, in this respect,
as not containing the priaclple of free bottoms
making free goods, and that the omission was
owing to an iotenlional neglect on the part of the
negotiator, as unfair, in theeilreme;Bnd it must
have been noticed, through the whale of that gen-
tleman'jj [Mr. Gallatin] obser rations yesterday,
that be frequently look care to intimate, that the
negotiator could have obtained belter ternu from
Great Biitain if he had been so disposed.
Hr. T. aud. be was impreMal witii Ik* ispara-
ance of the siil:>iect now befor* the CoamiUea^
and could not sapprasa biaaslfiBiabineiit mt th*
eonduciof ihegenUeaenintbeoppoaitioD. Tbef
had began with calling for papers fniB the Puan-
DBNT wd with dcelanng they bad •> mneh, aad
similar atitl)Ority, to that reeled is the PnfiaBml
of Great Britain, to saDClion or rtftise tbeirassHit
to Treaties of a commercial aatni* ; the ntzt
vole was a dedantion that the power of tmkiii*
Treaties was vested in (be PssatMNT wilfa ad-
vice and consent of tke Senate, but that the H«im«
of Repreaeutaiive* had a kind of negaliring pamtt
by withholding approptiatioaa.
Now, the deeluation was, the Treaty was at*
.irely open, not even the national faith waspled^
iwumb
10 esaeotion, and e
lyjemarkable for his candor, had said t
vote against A» appropriating reaolutioa now be-
fore ibe Committee, to show that the power of
refusal was in the House of Repreeentattvea. To
meet the gentlemen in opposition on their owb
ground, and allow tbem the authority of a Bribsk
Parliament, he said the British Paflianteoi bttd
never in a solitary instance refused to paa laws
Becessary to carry a Treaty into ezeeutioD, whiek
had been negotiated by their King. The iostanea
of the Commercial Treaty with France, mado
in 1713, commonly called the Treaty of Utrecht,
il was conditional, and he again asoerted no posi-
tive uneondttional Treaty made by the King of
Great Britain jiad ever been otherwise considered
by the Brilisb Parliament than a compact wbich
bad solemDly pledged the national faith. and which
Ihey were bound lo carry into effeel. That with
France above mentioned, although conditional,
was refused support, on account of a claim made
by the merchants, and a violent patty at that time
prevalent in the nation.
It was well known the merchants were more
intimately concerned in the operations of a Com*
mercial Treaty, than any other class of men ; t^
this the party availed themselves, aod ia that way
effected a negotiation of the necessary laws w
carry that Treaty into effect. The merehanla is
this country are almost to a man in favor of tbb
Treaty, and yet a gentleman from Peeflsylnuu*
[Mr. Swamwick] nad told us we ought not to
mind them, because they were interested, and teU
us of nalional honor being preferable lo intci
Mr. T. said, the progress of opinions and e
duct in that House was a remarkaUe bsMi
of the assumption of power, so natural to Ihe ha~
man heart.
At fir!>t the cry had been, the Treaty was ud-
constilutional, that ground was now given up, and
it is now treated as a mere proposal for compro-
mising Jifierences, and bod undergone more ver-
bal criticisms, and tbe discusaion managed with
more subterfuges and quibbles, than any gentle-
man would have either disposition or face to exer-
cise in a bargain for the purchase of a horse. And
we are [old this House is ihe great inquest of the
nation, and. if not Ihe Treaty-making power, yet
empbatioally the Treaty .destroying power. He
.dbyGoogle
IMS
m&nmx of cosaKBes.
ATRI^I7M.]
JJovcuHm o/fWeM TVeoly.
[H. pyR.
wvold Mknviriei^ d>9K tna a hvppinen in the
9hhe^deaCI0JtDg TrtncfalhegcntleimD bad ss-
sumed. And now an atleiapt was mjtde in ^e
House to destTOjr a national oompact, for the sole
pnrpote of ahawitag dtm oawmi; tud from the
nluaUe ntotire oTdoiitg tkeir utmost, as the im-
mediate OeprewtttttiTCf itftke people, topreaem
liberty and the riftito of man.
He then aikeo for a tittle mote iodulgeaee,
while he took a short new of ibesute of things
which, in his opinion, muat nteessarily fallow a
refusal to appropriate.
Among tne melaneholy group of dislr«sriag at-
tHndea. into which this coantry must be thrown,
by such rcfunl, a br*a^ of naiitmal faith .woold
ptMMt ilMiU' in. nroiiuikQBt feftlaiM ; aod tb» nan
ftr jttaanhD«MUdinfawilhBatiaBaliaitli,i«rcre
■MfriiHi^ toiibany ontbe hapfimwof^ conn-
try.
The peace of the cDi^^y was »t,lawt ininmi-
netit hazard J peace might be coasidered as a
state of thiogi contrasted to war, and it ftirther
might be considered as a stale of ihiogs contrast'
ed to confiuiooand want of confidence, in the in-
ternal police of A OoTernmeat, or its operations
' with regard to foreign nations ; a reCosal to appro-
priate would operate like a stroke of the torpedo
on onr commerce; evil-minded pefrons in Ber-
muda and elsewhere would sweep the leaaof our
Teasels, under the expectation of actual war. In-
dustry will be discoimged, and instead of finding
security and protection from OoTerument, when
men find it a mere bill of expenses, and exercising
itseif in dtsseriatious on liberty, and talking loud'
ly of honor, but professedly decrying the interest,
and whatever tends to advance the mtereat of the
industrious and enterprising, they would be led to
curse the Qo vera meat.
Butghe acknowledged he had very tittle expect-
ation of escaping a war with Great Britain, in
ease of a refusal to appropriate money to carry
into efieet this Treaty.
In contemplating ihb subject, gentlemen had
aiked, with an air of triimipb, will Great Britain
go to war with us?
The gentleman from Pennsylvania had said we
woald not go to war with them; and if neither
Srty will so to wiu, how can there be a warl
e would thank gentlemen to give the probable
ftate of things. It had been aelmowledged by the
last-named gentlfman,[Mr. Gallatin,] that a new
ne^tiatioD,at present, cannot be expected. Great
Britain possess the pcwts— the confidence of the
tadians — the many millions of dollars despoiled
from our commerce— the benefits of our trade —
utd proceed to make more invasions on our pro-
' perty and our rights, and yet the gentleman says
wewiilnotgotowar! Whstshouldbe the Ameri-
can coodutii under such a state of things? Would
ifaey tamely see their Government stmt — attempt
to look big — call hard names,— and the moment
they were bcetl, like an overerown, labbeily boy,
ahrmkinloB corner! Isthis,be^ked,tbe Ameri-
can character 7
nob aehaiactBT. ^lepeoplewliere tiewasmost
kcqoainted, whatever might be the character ip
ether parts of the Union, were not of the stamp.ro
MT hosannah to-day, and crucify to-morrow ; they
wiH Bot danee around a whiskey-pole to-day, and
curse their GoTernment, and, upon hearinc of a
military force, sneak into a swamp. No,saidMr.T.,
my immediateconstituents,whoml('ery well know,
understand their rights, and will defend them ; ana
if they find the Government either cannot or will
not protect them, they will attempt at least to pro-
tect tkenuclve?. And he could not feel thankftd
to that gMileman [Mr. Gallatin] for coming all
the way from Qeoeva to give Americans a dtar-
acter of pusillanimity.
[Here a member from Pennsylrania fMr. Hsis-
TBa]oal)edMr.TBAOT to order, and said it was in-
tolerable. Mr.'HBA'rBofVirginia,andMr. CHRie-
Tin of Maryland, called to order. Hr. Tract
requested the Chairman of the Committee of the
Wnole [Mr. Mdblbnhbbo] to decide. The Chair-
man declared Mr. Thacy to be in order, and
directed him to proceed.]
Mr. T. sctid, in the heat of debate he might hate
been too personal: this he did not mean. If be
had, he asked pardon of the gentleman and the
House. But he would ask leave to explain. He
said be would call upon the recollection of all who
heard him, that that gentleman [Mr. Gallatin]
said yesterday the negotiation with Great Britain
was begun in fear, carried on throngb fear, and
the Treaty made by the same motive ; when it
arrived in this connlry, the Senate sanctioned it,
and the Prbbidbnt placed his signature to it, frtnn
fear, a»d now there was an attempt to obtam the
sanctionofthe House of Representatives from fear.
AH these expressions, in an unqualified manner,
the gentleman had applied to iliis country, in its
most important transactions, by its most import-
ant characters land, to crown nfLwe are to defeat
the Treaty, and sit. down quietly under injuries
the most irritating, and not attempt a redress, or
he had; and ne nowsaid, he wished to look in the
face of that gentleman, [Mr. Gallatin,] or Mr.
HxiBiva, or any other who dared say that the
Anoerwan oharacter was that of cowardice. He
would sar, ag^n and anin, it was madness, oi
worse, to suppose we could defeat this Treaty and
Mr. T. said another atteBq>twasimade to defeat
this Treaty,. by declaring that the British nation
had impressed our seamen since the Treaty WM
made, aod that this was either an infraction of it,
or a proof that no security was obtained under it.
He left gentlemen to decide on the possibility of '
breaking this Treatv, when even the national faith
was not yet pledged lilt sanctioned by the House
of Representatives, and took this opportunity to
ask for the proofs of such transactions as impress-
. ing our seamen by the British Gbreriiamit. H«
declared he knew of none, and had never heard of
one instance of the British Qovernment either
avowing the tight, or practising upon it, of im-
pressment of an American into their sea-eervice.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONORfiSS.
LopR.]
Extcution of Britiih TVeaty.
[ArBl^ 1796.
Uanjr insUDces bad occurred of coiiipUints to the
Oovernmeat, and all were immediately redressed.
And, althougti it was becomiog very fashionable to
calDmniste the British QoTernmentj he was im-
pelled, flop his own belief aod conriction on the
■abject, to M17 that no such instance had ever taken
place, OT would erer, of the British Qorenimeni
SiitifyiDg the impressment of natives of the United
tales, or one who was an acknowledged citizen.
Is it not unfair, said Mr. T., to atUibute ti> the Go-
vernment tbe unauthorized misconduct of indivi-
duals far removed from the seat and control of the
Government 7 It was equally unreasonable to say
that we were not protected by tbe Treaty, and
should not be, when the British Government had
promised to |«y for all former depredations made
in that way upon our commerce. Was it not
reasonable to suppose they would prevent ot pay
for any such depredatioas now made? And Iney
certainly would prevent all such which were not
from the ci»ifusion of war rendered inevitable.
An objection had been raised against the Treaty,
that we should in consequence of it atiffer British
influence on out politics and Gbreinment. If 1
thought that to be a fact, said Mr. T., 1 should be
unhappy in the extreme ; for I wish to avoid tbe
interference of any foreign politics. But, he said,
he could not see any such danger. If we would
be just to ourselves, we might defy any and all
operation of the politics of foreigners.
Mr. T. said he had but touched upon a few of
the many important points which presented them-
selves in considering this momeatoua question,
any one of which would afford abundant matter
for such a number of observations as would occupy
a length of time equal to that which the patience
of the Committee would allow to any one man.
He concluded, by saying, be thought the h^pi-
nesE of the United States, and the stability, ifnot
the existence of the Government, depended
passing the resolution j and he could not'fo- „
moment indulge a belief that it would be nega-
tived.
When Mr. Tbxct had concluded, a call for the
question was again madej but, upon the motion
being put for the Committee's rising, there ap-
peared 51 for it, which was more than a m^ority
of members present. The Committee accordingly
rose, without coming to a decision.
Thubsdat, April 28.
Mr. GooDHOE, Chairman of the Committer
Commerce and Manufactures, reported a bill
discontinuing tbe drawbacks on the exportation
of snuflfrom the United States j which was twice
read, and, after a few observations, was ordered
be committed to a Committee of the Whole.
Gtntlemen of tke Senate, and
of the Hotue of Reprfealativta :
Herewith I lav before jou k Letter from the Attoniij
ueneial of the United Stat«a, relative to compensation
to the Atl«rnen of tbe Dnitad Btatae in tbie wvenl
iHriet*. which is racommended to vmtr coruidarabon.
G. WA8HINCTOK.
DsiTiB Statm, April 38, 179«.
The said Message and Letter were read, and
ordered to be referred to Mr. Kitteh^ Mr. BHBirr,
and Mr; BRADBunv, to report their opinion there-
upon to the House.
A bill was received from the Senate, authoriz-
ing Ebenezer Zane to locate certain lands North-
west of the river Ohio; which was twice read
and referred.
Mr.S.SifiTH proposed a resolution to the follow-
jta effect, which was referred to the Committee
ofCommerce and Manufactures to report thereon :
Rfoluid, That the PieBdenI irf the United StaMa
be anthoiiisd to direct sudi qnanntine U> be parfnmfld
on all THaela from foreign GMintries, arriving at tbaaoita
of tbe United Statea, as ha shall judge oeceMaij."^
EXECUTION OF BBTTISH TREATY.
Numerous petitions were presented to-dBy,piay-
ing that provision may be made for carryi^ the
British Treaty into effecL They were relerred
Mr. S. Smith also informed the House that be
had received instructions from 97 of his constitD-
ents to exert himself in getting the British TTeaif
carried into efiect. He said tbe instructionswhicn
he read to the House before, from his constituents
in Bahimore county, were signed by 197 persons,
and not by , as had been stated.
Mr. LiviHOBTON presented a representation and
memorial, signed bv 37 persons, in behalf of a
public meeting whicn had Wen held at New York,
in the fields, praying that the House of Represent-
atives woula act as they thought best with respect
to the British Treaty, without being influenced by
the efforts of any party. It was referred to the
usual Committee.
Tbe House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on tbe state of the Union ; when,
the resolution for carrying tbe British Treaty into
effect being under consideration —
Mr. pREBTON rose and spoke as follows: Mi.
Chairman, I voted for the question yesterday, for
tbe Srst time since this discussion began. I was
then prepared to give my opiniao, but, since the
House has thought proper to devote another day to
this important subject, I will take the liberty 10
offer my sentiments, and claim the indulgence oT
the Committee for tnis purpose. Imake this claim
for their indulgence with the more confidence, as
I have heretofore occupied but little of the lime
of the House on any occasion, and as I mean to be
short on the present — not intending to take that
comprehensive view of the subject which many
eentlemen have done who have preceded me. ,
With this apology I will proceed, conceiving, how- I
ever, that no apology is necessary on this or any
other occasion where our duly impels us to come
forward. But, I must confess it has been painful
to me to hear the recriminations that have taken
placi; on this occasion. I had hoped, on a subject
so important, on which it is saia the peace and
hapinnessofthis our common country rests — whose
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGBESa
APSih 1798.]
EMaUiim of Britiik Trtaty.-
[H-ofR.
weUaie nrasi be eqnsUr demt ti
ftDCB and cKloineas would h4*e
erations; cbal all our efforts would ha v« been made
toeoligbieD the minds and coariDoe the judgments
of each other, iumd of LeMeaiog oiM another in
onr estimation, and that of onr eonitiiaents, by
diahonorabte imputation*, and which. 1 lrust,eTeiy
me&ber would apuro. As to mysetf, Mt. Chair-
man, I stand here rfgardless of any impaiatious
that ill-oaiure may cast upon me in this House,
or abuse which may be conferred wiibout doors.
I shall not be deterred from pronouncing that
opinioa which my best reflections have enabled
me tQ form.
Sir, in considering thiasubject, I had hoped eTery
information poaaessed by any of the departments
of Government would have been freely afforded
us; and 1 cannot but lament that the PiiBainEnT.
by a loo strict adherence lo what he has supposed
to be bis Constitutional duty, refused the request
of this House for certain papers, whicit request
seemed to me not only proper, bat innocent —
pniper, because they might bare afforded inform-
aCion that would reconcile many of the objections
entertained of the Treaty, and finally produce its
adoption i it was innocent, because, if^there was
no unfkir nrocedun respecting this business, why
not publish the transaction to the world— at all
erenCs to the Reptesentatives of the people, who,
it is acknowledged by all, were not only to act on
the Treaty in some way, but were intrusted with
the maoajement of some of the dearest rights of
their fellow-countrymen 7 If, then, the people
confide in us such important concerns, migal not
the Ezeflutive have reposed some degree 5 confi-
dent;e, and com]died with a request so decorously
and respectfully made? But he has told us his
duty forbids it. We are then reduced to the ne-
cessity to judge of the thing from the face of it,
withont the wished-for informtion. And I must
confess it has always presented suck a hideotis
and deformed aspect to my mind, tl)at I hare ever
disliked it— which, together with the unfriendly
sentiments of my ccwstitnents to it, has produced
ray prejudices. But J bad determined, as the
PassiDBM-r and Senate had ratified it, and many
approved it, to keep iny mind open for every
informatioo thssubjectwas capable of. As, then,
none has been ofiered to operate a change of my
opinion, and as the most likely source is shut
Bgainstus,myiifejudices,instead of beine lessened,
have become firmly fixed iu the opposition.
I have thought proper to make these few pra-
liminaiy observations. I will now offer some
conaiderationK on the Treaty] and will avoid, as
much as possible, retraeiog the gronad that has
already twen trodden by those who have gone
before me.
By the first article, we find a 6nn and inviolable
peace, a true and sincere friendship, is to exist be-
tween the respective countries, and the people
thereof, without exception. How sincere the
friendship between the eouotries in, 1 will not un-
dertake to say ; but the friendship of Qi«at Bri-
tain to our properly and onr people, of certain
descriptions, is n^bouoded indeed, inasmach as
they are daily receiving the one and embneii^
the other, even by force ; but so familiar is this
kind of friendship, that I believe our people would
willingly dispense therewith ; it proves, too, theold
adage, that too much familiarity breeds contempt.
But, sir. the next article seems to be the great
boon for all the concessions that are made by this
compact. There is no one but will admit that the
surrender of the posts would be an important ac-
quisition at this lime ; but how infioitely more so
would it have been in the year 1783, when they
oueht to have been delivered? We should not
only have received the benefits of the fur trade,
which gentlemen prize so high, from that time to
the present, with all its accumulatioas, but we
shonld have had peace with the Indians, and there-
by saved the millions which have been expended
ID war, and the lives of many thousand valuable
citizens. Moreover, our lands would have been
furchased and settled to their limits, and our
nblie Debt thereby much exlioguished, and we
should have been less embatraued. But what
has'been the course pursued in (his bnsinessT We
have been obliged, by vast expense, to coerce a
peace with the Indians, and when ready to grasp
the posts, we are told they are not ours, and the
interference of another Treaty has thrown them
two years further from our reach. I had under-
stood, Mr. Chairman, that the Envoy was char^
to demand, not to cede them, and surely this is a
cession ; for if he had a right lo give them up for
two years, why not for twenty-two, or any othet
giveu period ? the principle certainly goes to this.
So that, by this stipulation, we find, instead of re-
ceiving retribution for the detention of the posts,
further delays are allowed, and no claim made.
Hence we stand precisely in the same situation
we did in the year 1783 — no other assnrance foe
their deliverance than we then had — British &itbj
of which, I had thought, gentlemen had had
enough, by not having any. I will ask whether
we have any stronger assurances now that Qteat
Britain will perform, in 1796, what she ought to
have perforined in 17831 For my part, i rnow
of none, unless it is that she has bow a better bar-
gain than she then hid ; but, indeed, thb ought
not to be an incitement, when, by refusing to com-
ply with one, she is Mlieited to enter into another,
more to her advantage. And this policy, too, ia
lupported by a genileinan who informs us he re-
'resents the half of the State of New York, [Mr.
boopBHiJ be advises accepting what we hava
fat, and negotiate for more. God forbid we should
ave any more negotiations of this kind ! for, if
we have, 1 fear we shall negotiate ourselves into
Colonial subjects again.
But we are told the British committed no in-
fraction of the Treaty of 1783, by wilblwldiiw
the posts; for we, having thrown legal impedi-
ments in the way of the recovery of their debts,
became the first infractors thereof, whereby they
were left free to comply or not. Let us, foramo-
ment, inquire into this fact. By the 4th aiticle
of that Treaty, creditors on either side were to
meet with no legal impediment to the recovery of
their debts. By the 7th article of the seme Trea-
.dbyGoogle
>fiSl
EssrroBf OF coaoBsaa,
awR-j
EModton if BrilUh IVtat^.
[April, 1796.
ty, H« UmJM^ WM, with all ««iiTciiicnt speed,
to -withdnw hM eraucs taA guiiacna from eTery
poit «Bd plkoe. JVovT, sir, oo eoai|ttiiaff tfaa«e
tnioles, can it be pcesuiiwd t^ viy me tbat the
iMlei ■lipulation wu to remau ■Bezeeoicd until
tke CKtntora reaovered their dehu 7 W«b it to
a M « " "
f No I
Sum
eoUeetioB of .
vould it be Mid that the stipulatioBf of the 7th
mrtiele woold be anipended uolil ell the ereditorB
weie whoUjr ntiified 1 It is Bbnud, panienlarly
whcB we leflcci that the CommieWHien who
iM^otiated that Traatr lauK have coDtemplaied
the ncontj of those debts by lawsuits f iheiefiire,
if the latter <UaM was intended to coeioe the
jbcmei, we would eertainlr not had the ioMr*
tien of the words "with all coaTeDicnt speed,"
iriijch implies an early complianoe. If the op-
poaile coDstraetiML waa juot, J would Tencure
to my, the Britiah GhiTemmenI would neTer
hare agreed to ntMuder the pods, but in codm-
fueoce of aueh eoaceeiioiii as it now gets ; for it
would bare the adrantagea of the fur trade, and
the failh of this country pledged for the payroeat
of the debts, which were acoumuUting by inie-
rest. This was a pleasioK >ituatioD ; but what
wu th^ situatton of the Brilieh debtors? De-
priredof ibair Degroet, which were to be returned
by the Treaty ; deprived of the advaatages of the
trade with the Indians, whereby they migt' ""
eoabUog tbemaelves to aiacbit^;e those debts
raased and worn down with taiaiion, to support
the kidiaa wart ezctled by their creditors, la
thi( situation of thinga, was tt not nattual for ihem
to look around for security or iadeniDLty Hgaintt
thoM BTJlfl ; aod would anything more naturally
pieaeDt it«elf, than withholding the payment of
them<»ieytothetery cause of these evils? Nor-
sir; and Icanaot aonceive it so dishonorable
aofue geutletoea pretend to view it.
But, air, I will endeavor to tbow that the laws
which were enacted by States for prohibiting
the teeovery of the Britiah debts, was not an in-
6acliou of the Treaty of 1783. By the little book,
-wfaiefa thegcDtieiuikfrDm Connecticut [Mr. Hili^
■oiWKjaaytKiopceciiMM, and which he h^s will
ha preserved for .wine time to come, w« &id that
Ur. JxrMUOK ha%in conNqnenoe of camplaiois
ie British fiAiaiBtn, respecting the impedi-
to the re«o*eryof Btilish debts, tnqtii red into
the beta, in those Slates where the complai
Qtiginated ; the result of these inquiriei waa, that
thcNigh there were Stale laws prohibiting, yet a
' number of genilemeD, of the first abilities and
greai integrity —generally professiooal characters,
and who have been engaged in proceediogaof this
kind— certify, that wher«ver attempts were made
to reeover Ihese dehu, they have met with no
more ohetriMtion than ether creditors. Besides,
those gen tlenten were geoerally of opinion tha
on the final rati^calion of the Treaty of 1783,
repealed all laws at variance with it. If, then,
had (uch a powerful attribute as to repeal ftrmer
laws, it follows, as a oonaequenoe, that subeequent
laws oppoaiBg it ware Bwre ntdUtiee. These cnpin-
ions weae citad the other day by a gentleman from
MaaMchnsett^ [Mr. Smawica,] and relied on. 1
hope they wit! liare their dae weight on the ap-
plieation now to be made of them'. So that, on
the whole, it does appear to me the British credit-
or had nothii^ more to •traggte with than other
ersditora bad, axeept the weQ-Anaded prejudieea
imbibed by ourcoantrymeiSagaiiHt that nation,
which, tfaoagh ihc laws might in some measnie
eorreet, ihey coold never eradicate. That these
paejodieee nave produced Irragutaritics in many
insttnoeaand delay of eotlections, I bare no doubt ;
but from the nature of things it is well known no
' ' ' pfeaaation coold goard agaiiut it.
fbreeight
lade^tfa
. they might have been expected, for can
it be auppoead laat men would stand calmly and
■ee their ihmiltes redaced to penury and want by
an lUHcknting British creditor, who had aided to
impair the Tory means of his debtor to pay, and
vAoae OovemmenI was by their acts daily ia-
creasiBg tbe evils, by erciting the Indians to war
against us, wheieW oar citizens were borne down
with burdens to defend themaetvea ? I say, would
not such rcflectioiis, with ruin before our eyes,
produce a degree of irritation in the moei calm
amongst us? I owe none of these debts, I nev«
did, and IneTerwill,if lean helpit. Ispnm theidea
of involving my country in a debt of an incalcula-
ble amonnt,wlien millions of them never received
any benefit thereby. It is wrong, it is unjust. I
again repeat, that it does appear to me, on an im-
partial view of this subject, that tbe United Slates
are not chargeable With the first infraction of
the Treaty of 1783, and that therefore, we are not
bound now to eater into a compact which appears
to me to be warraated neither by die princi^es of
reciprocity nor juDtiee.
But I undertake to say, and with some confi-
dence too, that Great Britain committed the first
infraction of that Treaty, by .withholding tbe
postL and also carrying away tbe negroes, which
she had expressly atiputaced to give op; and, to
my astoDishment, it is now contended that the
taai^ away the negroes was not a viotadoo of
the Treaty, as they came into their possession by
tbe rights of war, and beingdeemed property were
vested in tbe captors. Admit, for a moment, they
wete that kind of property, and they became a*
much thepropertyoftbeir captors as any they bad
posses&ed themselves of in the same way, vbat
then? Certainly, that it /olio wed ofcourae, they
bad a right to dispose of them in any way they
chose, either to emancipate them, retain them in
slrivery for their own use, or return them to their
original owners. Which tif these alteraativeshBre
they elected to do? [Hmc be read the following
sentence from the Treaty of 1783.] " And His
Britannic Hajeity ^w)l, with all convenient
speed,and without caus.ng any destmctioo or car-
Zing away any negroes or oilier property of the
[nerican inhabitants, withdraw all his armies."
iiic^ Ac. Now, sir, waa not the carryinK away the
negroes a violation of this article 1 All America
□nee thought ao. No other ctmstrnction ever en-
tered the head of aaan till this Treaty appeared ;
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100$
HISTORY OF C(»<GRES&
]^4
Apml,17M.]
ejMcntiim o^ BrOith TVeaif.
[H-ofB.
owners to conitnied it, aod in viitue tfaeteof nude
demands. Ooogreas, and even " Camilku," once
tboaght to, and so they declared it ia the most
solemn nunmer. And to it woold be conslmed
by all deacriptiou of people, from ibe scbooL-boy
to tbe Senator, to ose the expression of the gentle-
manfrom New York, |ldr. Coo peb,] bad oui nunds
remained in the same state tbev were ia a doaen
yean ago. Sir, il' there be modem construe ticms
of the CoDBtitutioo, I will venture to say there is
the same of Treaties. But another clause of the
tame article juilifieB my contiructioa, to wit : the
learing in all fortifications the American artillery
that may he therein. Oentlemen will hardly say
this meant fortifications gariiaooed by American
soldiery ; this woald be aMUrd, for it it Pie^ well
known that American aililleiy guaideo itself bet-
ler than British Treaties did. Was not this ar-
tillery, which had fallen into the hands ol the ens'
my, a vested property, tUl the chancea of war or
the Treat; bad made a disposal iheteofi Un-
questionably it was. Werenot iheaicbives,reeord),
oeeds, iu:., which had also fallen, into the bands of
the enemy, tbeir property 1 Thatecan benodoubt
of it. Yet we find these thing;s stipulated
^ven up.
If, then, they chose to yield one species of pro-
perty, might they not another 1 Bui, it it said,
the negroes' were not our projlerty at the time of
iq gluing the Treaty; so neither did the archires,
TVeords, dbc., belong to the States — they were the
prapeitj of the enemy ; but certainly the British
Minister had as mucn right to stipulate for the
[etom of the one at for the other, and he has in u
explicit terms. This mutt have been the under-
ataoding of the Commissioners who oegotiaied that
*rreaty, altbouffh one of ihem has been traced to
his slumbers, ue eTening before the sealing the
Treaty, for a diSereni construction. So that, in
this instance, the Britishhave certainly committed
the first infraction, by curyiog off the oegroet.
And t£ it not exciaordinary that, notwithstanding
this, no claim is made for them, and yet we are
bnmd to pay the British debts, when the very
means of doing it are taken from the debtor by the
creditor "i- Sir, this is a serious oppression, and
though not al a very great magnitude, will never-
tkeless be ftlt in an interesting uuuiacr, and if
snbmitted to, will be so under much disquietude-
I will now make some obterTatitHis on the 9th ar-
ticle, which to me was extremely obJectionaUe, and
immeasely tmportant.as it breaks id ona property
the rights of which above all ought to remain un-
shaken or hazarded by construe tioo. By this arti-
cle, British tubjecu who now t»ld landa in the
Vnited States shall continue to hold them, ae-
cordtng to the nature and tenure oi their ettatea
and titles therein.
What is the nature and tenuie of their eatates
ud titles therein ? They claim and hdd ibem
either by proclamation from the-KiBg, orftntiog
certain traats, or by tpecial oontiaats with him
for to much as deeeribed theiein. This is the t
tuca and tenure of the Briu*h cjaimt geaeially,
this coontry. And I will *e«ti)ia to atcerl^ if this
AEticle ba agned to, all tbw» aid olaipu will be
renewed, and this country thrown into a soese
of litigation and confusion. Sir, it -will nent be
ubmitted to, if thit coBsbraetion be rigiit, and I
:aa see no other meaning it can have. It it un-
known what a face of country will be covered l^
these claims. I know a man, now in this city, who
holds many millioosc^ these claims by a^eement
with the King of Qreat Britain, prior to the Revo-
lution; whether he means to renew ^ke chum
under this article, I cannot say; but if this article
<wly admitted of a doubt— and it certainly does,
notwithstanding the labors of the geademan from
Conneclicut, yesterday, [Mr. Tract>— we ought
to be BztTemelj cautions, and weigh it well before,
"e accept it, siinated as much of this country is.
Bnt. however objectionable this article is, no less
is the succeeding one. It i^ that the debts of
individuals of one nation dne to the indiriduab of
theothergshall not be snbjoct to sequestration or eon-
fiacation. By this we give up one amoag the strong-
est holds we hare on Qreat biiain, ^r her peaoe
and respect iDwardsUs; a thine, if retamed, would
be of more terror to her than eU the fleets we shall
have for many vears to come. Bat, it is said, ft
is onjtiat that in^vidual confidence shonld be im-
paired by nstional difierenees. Let gentlemen
refer to history, and tbey wilt find that almori all
wars hare been originated in the conduct of in-
dividuals to each other, who, by acts of outrage
and retaliation committed on one another, gather
Etrength from time lo time, tiU they become a
mticmal object, and cause a national war. The
interference of individuals frequently restores peace
again. I mention this to show, thai where theie
is snch a familiar intnconrse between nations, ■■
between this and Great Britatn, there oiwht to be
not ooij the obligation of fear, bnt tibai ofinteieat.
For, if tt be an individual low to the peo^eof that
nation to commit outrages on the peo]Me erf' this,
it will be a more certain security against those
outrages than the infiucuoe of personal fear. Bnt
I have heard it said, if this Treaty be violated bv
iity, and this article falls wrtn
lificrent opinion, for the nego-
tiators, in forming this, were gaarding that pro-,
perly against the evib of war ; they express this
to be their object; they could have no other, for
it is hardly presumable there would be conRsca-
tions in time of peaoe. Sir, the fact is, if we agree
to this artiele, there is no event irf war or national
differeneea whatever may be the outrages of- the
Gonflietiag Powers, that will justifjr a breach of it.
I would bold myaelf boimd at all times, or ia any
event, to observe this artiole. This is my bona
fidt, Uthough 1 voted against the insertion of these
'words on another occ«sion, and although so much
has bean said about prostrating the honor and
fiuth ofthb nation. By these observations, gen-
tlemn will see I am a friend to seqaestiation
and conteation ; yet I declare, if I know myself,
1 av a friend to justice, although our neffotlator
haaaudmieh a ooadtwtwta unjust. Idiflfcr,too^
Btr^ from mr firiends on this pomt, when tiiey say
thMshoaldbethelast reMttineaseof war. Witn
me, it thoold ba nKw the ftnt j fbr I hare sudi
a hMoibla avenicn to Ua cSWrntrf human blood.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
».l
Exeeutum of BritUh Tnaty.
[April, 17U6.
thtU I would strip my ...
before I would commit such an oulrage on hu-
manity; if' that would not restore peace, then I
would use the bayonet a«mr derDier TBsort. This
closes my observations on the permanent artirlcs
of the Treaty j which to me are of such weight,
howeyer futile ihey may be to others, that I can-
not, in my conscience, agree to be bound myself
thereby, or suflei my country, so far as my nega-
tiTe will present i(.
The lattei pait of the Treaty being of a com'
mercial nature, and temporary, 1 am not disposed
to hazard many obserrations upon it, because 1
■jn ignorant of commercial affairs, my interest
neTer leading me to an acquirement of a know-
ledge of it, and my industry not being adequate
to Ue abstniseness of the subject. However, I
will offer smne general obserTBiions.
The 15th article prevents a discrimination of
duties, aa, alto, a prohibition of exports and im-
ports, umess general, with all nations. Every one
who knew the eoiuse of my political opinions
two years ago, must know 1 am opposed to this.
I did think that thece two propositions, under the
existing state of things, as relative to the time they
were proposed, would have answered the desired
purpcMe.
The discriminating duties would either have
produced counlervaihiurones, or an amicable and
equal adjustment of differences; in either event,
I should have been pleased — tb@ first, tending to
the encooragement of our manufactures^ the
other, to accommodation. I was also willing-
nay— anxious, to try the effects of a prohibition of
ftll intercourse with that nation. It would have
^tennined one important fact, in my mind,
and, thongh this experiment might have produced
a temporary inconvenience, it would ultimately be
■n important advantage to the encouragement of
our own manuiictures. Besides, it is said, that
country is jealous and sore under their separation
from us. If this be a fact, and I believe it is, it
affords us an additional reason to pursue that po-
licy which wtU finally close our interconrse with
that nation, instead of drawing closer the bands
of iriendship, which, I am sorry to say, has al-
leady too much influence. I am here reminded
of a conversatioa that took place between myself
and a gentleman high in office, and very bi^ io
the estimation of some. Whilst the resolution
prohibiting a further intercourse with Qreal Bri-
tain was tinder consideration, I met with him, and
.it immediately became the subject of convena-
tioo. He exclaimed against it as war, vrorse than
war; it was underhan^d and tmrnanty, and,
therefore, luwotthy of Americans. If it was the
intention of gentlemen to go to war with that
countryj and the complaints would justify it, he
would join hand in hand in an open manner ;
Irat, when there existed such differences betweeh
naticms, the propet course to be pursued was the
^pointment of an Bnvoy Bximordinary, who
would go the nation oompbined of with a per-
fect knowledge of th« temper of his own country,
and, therefore, would be more impressive than
the gentleman Etationar'y at that Court. He add-
ed, too, that he might not possess all that enmity
to that nation that some of the Southern people
have, and^ therefore, an accommodation would
more readily, and with more facility, lake place.
This conversation happened several days before
the appointment of an Envoy, indeed, before I
heard the idea suggested. But so it was, one was
appointed who fitted the character precisely.
Though, unfortunately for this country, so soon
as he crossed the ocean he abandoned the temper
of his nation, as expressed by a respectable ma-
jority of the Congress that were then in session
when he was appointed, and has fixed a veto
thereon. This abandonment of the temper of his
country, fully proves the other requisite of hb
character, to wit ; that be did not possess all that
enmity to the British Qovemment that the South-
ern people did. Indeed, I doubt whether he had
anyj or such is his forgiving dispositiou and ur-
banity of manners, that he could not be so impo-
lite as to urge the temoer of his country, it was
too rigid. What gentlemen's feelings may be
who favored this system, I cannot say ; I confess
mine are not a little wounded ; yet not ao much
as to endeavor to avenge myself on the object,
to the injury of my country, as has been insin-
uated.
The 25th article is highly objectionable, as it
certainty is unfriendly to the French, inasmuch
as it permits British privateers, on capturing
French vessels, to enter our ports and remain for
security. By this, we become the protectors and
harborers of the enemies of our friends, and no-
thing will be more likely to produce a war with
that favorite nation, than pursuing a conduct like
this ; for, can it be supposed, that the French trill
see their vessels captured by the British, just off
our coasts, and immediately run into our ports,
there to remain till convenient to depart, which
certainly will not be as long as French vessels are
waiting their departure? \s this, Mr. Chairman,
consistent with strict neutrality 1 Is it consist-
eut with the obligations we are under to that na-
lionj or the gratitude we owe her for her mag-
nanimous services rendered us during the late
war t To me. it is a shameful dereliction of onr
friends; one that my obligations, my gratitnde,
and my friendship, spurns at, and will not suffer
me to submit to. But, to my astonishment, it is
asserted that we are under no obligations to France
lor the assistance she gave us. It was afforded,
not for friendship to us or our cause, but from en-
mity to Qreat Britain. 9ir, whatever might have
been their motives, it is unbecoming us to say,
for it we acknowledge the aidj we mast admit
the obligation. It is further said, [by Mr. HiLi^
BonBBjTthal she gave us no aid unmwehad cap-
tured Burgoyne, whereby we had proved to the
world that we were able to cope with that na-
tion. The inference from this is. that their aid
was nnnecetsary, and their tmtimely interf«eoee
tarnished the laurels that America was about to
Ck br conquest over Qreat Britain. But how
Cfuetat Wa^ngioB^ letter, respeetiiig
;dbvGoogle
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
1238
H.orR.]
EiKCution of BrUith Treaty.
[April, 1796..
Coout de Onne, at the captura of Gotowallis,
comport vith this usef lion 1 3y that we are in-
formed, as well as I recoUecl, (it is some time
aiace 1 read it,) that the people of America had
become tired of the war, ttkdj to yield to their
fetieues and distresses, whereby some effectual
stroke became necessary. York presented an op-
Sorluoity for the meditated scheme. Was Count
e Qrasse and his followers, the French, of no
service there? Sir, could the thing have been com-
Seted without this assistaace? It is ackuow-
Iged it could not. What were the assertions
tbal were made when appropriations were soli-
cited for the daughters of Count de Qmsse, two
yean ago'? That his services and magnanimity
was one of the great causes of ending the Ameri-
can war ; and shall the daughiers of this hero pe-
rish on the Ameiicaa shores,which weresomuch
indebted for their independence and liberty to the
services of their father 1 Were motives then im-
pevcheJI No,sir. Appropnationsweremade,and,
1 believe, ihit very gentleman votefl for them. I
did not, naving previously determined not to ap-
propriate money in that way, till our sufierine
brethren in Algiers were relieved from their cruel
slavery. Sir, 1 say I am astonished at our in-
gratitude, that we should abandon our friends,
aui) now, to their injury, take that nation by the
hand who attempted to deprive us of our liberty.
I am one who 'have different impressions. I be-
lieve American independence is much indebted to
French valor; believing sa I shall, wheni—-
these nations present themselves in umilar views.
eive a decided preference to the latter. 1 will
here conclude my obserrations with a few re-
marks on those already offered relatiTC to theeon-
saquences that will result in the event of accept-
aitce or rejection of the instrument on your ta-
ble. It is said, if we accept ii, we shall continue
to cnjoT all that protperity that kind Providence
h«B *o liberally bestowed on us, since (he estab-
lishment of this Ooverument; that our farmers
will reap the benefit of their industry, and our
meretuints will plough the ocean in secnrity,
bringing wealth to themselves and riches to their
country. These are surely pleasing consequences,
and 1 would, if they could be insured to me, seize
with avidity the thing that would produce such
ineatimable btcMings to our happy country. But,
Mr. Chairman, where is the security for all thisi
Have we found, since the ratificatioQ of this Trea-
ty, that out property and our (eamen have been
•ecuKd thereby T Are w« not hearing daily of
Briti^ tapaciiy gorging oiwAmerieaD property,
pttd Britiah insolenee outraging American rights,
nolwittutaodiog that nation must suppose the
TreatT completely ratified and fully in force?
For the Pkmiiwht has informed ua that he has
told them ao ; and to they have believed, and that
jest; snd on the said States, and ahsll be by them re-
■pecliviily execated, and obaerved with punetiuli^, and
'*- most nneere regard to good faith."
iir, is the seizing our vessels and imptessinir
seamen British faith ? Is this executing ai
VOultnemsoi wtuBuuivy DBVuneiiTvcu, luiu ^u«\
tli«r did believe ao, is further evidenced by the
hat claoM in the Treaty, via :
" ThU dus Treaty, when the same shall have been
raltfed by His Mqesty and fay the Preadont of the
Ciito«l BtBlee, by ind with t^ advice and eonsent of
~ - - g, B^ t^ lespeetive ratiflealioiw mntnal^
Aall be Untini and obUgalwj on Hia Ha*
observing the Treaty with punctuality and the
most sincere regard to good faith 1 If ;t is, it is
most fortunate that we yet retain those powers
which that nation has supposed were ceded by the
Treaty.
But the rejection of the Treaty is tremendously
ilarming, indeed. War, and war's alarms, are
tchoed oD all sides. We shall be attacked oo one
aide bv savage barbarity ; up the Mediterranean
by Algerine cruelty ; our commerce prostrated,
and our cities laid ander contribution by the
British. In short the do^ of war let loose on us,
and America^ once happy Americ^ will become
the scene of bloodshed and desolation. Great
God ! What man is there here that can be wick-
ed enough to involve his country in such incalcu-
lable miseriesl Who has firmness enough to meet
so foul a deed T Particularly when we reflect on
the dreadful act we are about to do, that will pro-
duce such scenes of horror and devastation 1
namely, refuse to accept a bargain derogatory
to our national honor! This, sir, is to pro-
duce the dreadful catastrophe. But the measure
of wo is not yet filled. There will be disunion ;
and Amerii^n citizens will become American
enemies, imbruing their hands in each other's
blood. Civil wars will rend onr happy country.
Heavens! What a shock to suffering humanity
liere will be I And all about some commercial re-
gulations and political differences with a foreign
Ltion, who, I believe, in principle, is our invete-
Mr. Chairman, I am one who. though I have
but little confidence in the British Government, yet
1 cannot believe that she, or any other nation on
earth, is so arrogant, and lost to every principle of
humanity, as to go into such dreadful excesses, be-
cause we will not enter into a contract that will
suit her interest. I fear war as much as any man,
when a pretest is given; but can it be seriously
said a rejection of uiis Treaty is a cause of war ?
I cannot believe (hat such can possibly 1>e the
event.
As to disunion, it is idle to talk of it; for I do
believe if, instead of a minority of this House,
every man in it were to return home full of spleen
and disappointment, and were to use every ex-
ertion, every artifice in their power, to bring
about a disunion, they would fail in so traitoroua
an attempt. The people, sir, would scoff them,
would turn them out of office, and place therein
more deserving characters.
As then, Mr. Chairman, I cannot believe that
ar or disunion willbe the result of a rejection of
the Treaty, and as I think it is one from which
we ought to withhold onr assent, I must give it
my negative. And if, in this, time shall prove
me wrong, I shall lament the error, with the
greatest sincerity, but I shall have the pleasin*
consolation to know it was an error of the headr
and not of the heart.
lyGoogle
1039
mSTQRY OF CONCttEBB.
Af KiL, 1796.]
XLnuMtion <^ Britidt Tnaty.
III. or H.
Wbw Ur. PusTon bad ttkm \m mM~
Mr. Ambs roM^ xod addicsacd tbe Chair h EdIt
lowsr
Mr. Chairman ; I eatertain the hope, peihapa a
luh oae, that my stienglh wQl haU aw oui to
speak 8 few oiiuutes.
In mr judgment, a right decision wiU depend
more on the temper and manner with which we
may prerail on ourselres to contemplate the sub'
ject, than upon the deyeiopmenl of any profound
political principles, or an^ remarkable skill in the
application of them. If we should succeed to
nentralize oui ioclinalioni, we should find less
difficulty tban we have to apprehend in sunuouat-
ilie all oUr objections.
The suggestion, a few days ago, that the Home
manifestea symptoms of heat and irritation, waa
made and retorted as if the charge ought to cre-
ate surprise, and would convey reproach. Let
ns be more just to ourselves, ana to the occasion.
Let us not aSeot to deny the existextce and the in-
trusion of some portion of prejudice and feeling
into the debate, when, from the very structure of
our nature, we otight to anticipate the circum-
•tance as a probability, and when we are admon-
i^ed by the evidence of oui senses that it is a
Act.
How can we make professions foroui3elTes,and
o&^r exhortations to tne House, that ao influence
should be felt but that of duty, and ao guide re-
spected but that of the UQderstanding, while the
peal to rally every pasMon of man is continually
ringing in our ears.
Out understandings hare been addressed, it is
true, and with ability and effect ; bat, I demand,
has any comer of the heart been left unexplored 'I
it has been ransacked to find auxiliary arguments,
and. when that attempt failed, to awaken the sen-
sibilities ibat would require none- Every preju-
dice and feeling have been summoned to listen to
some particular style of address ; and yet we seem
to believe, and to consider a doubt as an. afiront,
that we are ttiangers to any inflneiice but that of
mibiassed reason.
It would be strange that a subject which has
mused -in turn all the passions of the coimtiy,
should be discussed without the interference oi
any of our own. We are men, nnd^ therefore, not
exempt from those passions ^ as citizens and Re-
presentatives, we l^eel the mterest that must ex-
cite them. The hazard of great interests cannot
fail to agitate strong passions : we are not disin-
terested, it is impossible we should he dispasston-
Me. The warmth of such feelings may oedoud
the judgment, and, for a time, jiervert the under-
standing; but the public sensibility and out own,
has sharpened the spirit of (oquiry, and give
animation lo the debate. The public attec
Ints been qaickened to mark the progress of the,
disGDssion, and its judgment, often hasty and er-
nmeous on Arst impressions, has became solid
a&d enlightened at last. Our result will, I hope,
on that account, be the safer and more mature, as
well as more accordant with that of the nation.
e only constant agents in political aflairs are
a of meor-shall we comphiin of our
nalnral Shall we ny that man ought to have
been made otherwise 1 It ia right already, be-
cause He, from whom we derive our nature, or-
dained it so ; and becaun thua nade, and thus
acting, the cause of trnlh and the public good
influence
friendly to truth.
that the Cooatitutionel right' of this 1
stake, and to be asserted and preserved only by a
vote in the negative. W« hear it said that this.
is a struggle for liberty, a roaaly.rtBiatanceagaiBat
the design to nullify this aMciaUr, and to mate
it a cyp£ei in the Government. That the Pasn-
nEMT and Senate, the nnmoKmi meetingi is Ike
cities, and the iofluence of the funeral slaiiii irf
the countij, are the agents and inaOtimeetE of a
scheme of coercion and tenor, to force the Trea-
ty down our throats, though we loathe it, and in
EjHte of the clearest ccnvictions of duty and can-
It b necessary to pause here and inaeire, whe-
ther suggestioQH of this kind be not uniair in their
very texture and fabric, and pemicioat is all tbeir
influences 1 They op^eean obstacle i» the path
of inquiry, not simply disooutagiag, hut abeofaueiy
insurmountable. They will not yield to argn*
ment; foi,Bs they werenot reasoned up, thejFCBBnet
be rensoited down. They, ate higher than a Cki-
nese wall in troth's way, and built of iBalen«l>
that are iadesiructible. While this temaiaa, it ia
in vain to argue I it is iaTaintasayto thiammm-
tain, be thou cast into the sea. For, I ask of tb«
men of knovriedge of the wodd, whethei tkey
would not hold him for a bloakhead that sfaonld
hope to prevail in an argnment whose se^te a»d
object it is to mortify the self'loreof the expeet*
ed prosolyie? I ask, further, when SDehBaempM
have been made, have thev not faikcd of sacoessl
The indignant heart repels a oonvietian. ifaatia
believed to debase it.
The self-love of an individual is not wvtaier in
is called in French, Petprit dt corpt, or the aM-
love of an assembty ; tliat jeakuKaffectiou whteli
a biidy of men is always found to bear towards its
own prerogatives aad power. I will not coadenn
this passion. Why should we urge an maaeaa^
ing censure, or yield to groundless fesn thai trutk
and duty will be abRDdoned, because men in «
public assembly are still men, and feel that spirit
of corps which is oae of the laws of then naliuv t
Still (ess should vK despond or c(im|d>i», if—
reflect that this very spin! is a, gnardttn iasiinct
that watches over the life of thia assMsUy. k
cherishes the principle of self-preservatieB ; w>3j
without its eiist^nce, and ita exMsoct mth an
the strength we see it possess, the privileges of
the Representatives of the pamle, aad Hmedt
alely the liberties of tha penile, would not ba
guarded, as they are, with a vigilance (kaiBC¥ei
sleeps.Bnd ati anrelaxing couamaey aad eonnge*
U^the conscqiunceB, most unfairly allrihuted t»
the vote in the officmative, wereoot chimanealt
, and wftrae, for thef . a» da«»jli»<| i.sfcnaU. ihwk
.dbyGoogle
HISTOKT' OF COlfGItEBS,
ArRii., 17g&]
JSMCtttign of Britith, Trtaty.
[H;.o»B.
it a rspcoMh to be found eren mod«rftt« is tay
zaal to axBtt the ConstitutiotuI powen of ihu
anemblri and, Th«De*ef tb«7 shall be in real
duger, tbe pressnt oecaaioD affords proof that
there will be do want of adrooatee ani chai»-
Indeed, so pfompt asa, these feelioga, and wJmb
once roused, RO diacult to pacify, tbM, if we could
prove the, alarm waa ^roundles^ tne preJDdiee
a^nat the appropriaiioiH majr remam on ^
Duod, and it laay e7«) paas foe an act of prudetwc
aad daw to aegati*e a meaaare which waa ktaly
belioTod by onnelTaa, an4 n^y hereafter be mia-
coDceived by othera, to eaeroach upon the powers
of tie House. PriQei{dee that bear a remote affi-
aity with uaurpatiett on tkom powers will be re-
jected, not merely as errors, but as wroagt. Our
sensibilities will sbiiftk fiom a poet whare it is
possible they may be wounded, and be iDfiamed
by the slightest sospieioD of as SMault.
While these preposaeteioQs TeBain. all argu-
ment is useless ; it naay be heard witn the oere-
mony c^ aiieniioti, and larish ilaown resonraea,
and the paticitce it weariep, to no manner of pur-
pose. The ears may be opao, bat the miacl will
remain locked up, and every pass to the mi^t-
uanding guardaiL
Unlea^ therafere, tUs jealou and repulave fear
for the ridits of the Houae caa be allayed, I will
ridits of tk«
laheaiuig.
a prMs this topic too fa^--I eannot ad^
dress DtTseli with too much emphasia to the mag^
aanimity aad oaador of ihoee wbo tit here, to sus-
pect their owa fealiiw^ and while they do, to ex-
amue the grooodi oftheir alant. i repeat it, we
must conquiir our (lenuasion, that this body has
•n inlerast in one sida of the qnesdea owre than
the other, befoce we attempt to sumoaot oat ob-
jeotioaa. On most Mbjeets^ and acdeinn ones too,
perbaps.ia the most aolamn of all, we tbitn our
eieed more irom inoliBatiea than erideiiee.
Let me expostulate with gentlemen to admit, if
it be cmiy by wayof rapposiitanaad fova moment,
that it is Mraly paaaiDle they hare yielded too
suddenly to their alaiiaa for the powers of this
House ; that the sddtattes whiith hare boeti made
with such TariMv of Corms, and witb ao great dex-
terity inaoawoftlieaaitoalltlMtiajnejiidiceasd
passton itt the hewt, ace either the efiects or the
iBslrumeotB of ar^&te and decaptioe, aad than let
them see the subject once toMe in ita singleneB
and aimplioily.
It tvill be impostibU, on taitii^ a ftir review of
the aubjeat, to inttify the passitmate appeala that
hare b«c» made to aa to str^xla for out libeetiea
aad righta, ani the soleaan eAortatioa t» reject
tkc prapoaitioD, said to be aoocealed m dut on
yonr taAe, to awrendar tham foierer. In apite c^
this moot soleninity, I detaaad^ if the House, will
not coBour in the meastwe to azeeate the Treaty,
what other eotuaa shall wa tahel Bow maay
ways ofptoeeeding lieopen bafate-usi
In the natara of thiaga there ara but thtee— we
aae either to aiake the Treaty— (o<te«rre it— or
break it. It would be absord to say wa will do
DtstlMi. If Iinayrepea>aidiraa«^alimd]r:B»maafa'
abiued, we are under eocreion to do one of tbeBi^
aad wa ba?e no power, by tke ekerciae of our di«-
eretion, to prevent the consequences of a oluMce.
- By refasing to act, we choose. The Treaty
will be bn^flB, and &11 to the gromtd. When is
the fitaesi, then, ttf replying to those who urge
upon this House the t<^c8 of duty and policy.
that they attempt to force the Treaty down, and
to compel this aaaembly to rsBounce its discre-
tion, and to degrade ilMlf to th« rank of a blind
and passiTB inatnuaeat in tho haada of the Treaty*
makmgpowerl In caae we reject the appropria-
tion, we do not secure aay greater liberty of ae-
l)on,we gaiivno safer shelter than before, fhMi
the consaqneniKa of the decision. Indeed, they
are not to be evaded. It ii neither just nor man-
ly to oomfdaia that the Treaty-m^mg power has
prodaeed this ooeioioa to act. It is not the tat or
the despetism ai that poww, it is the aatnie of
things that emapels. Shall we, dreading to \^
come the blind matrumoits of power, yield eap-
selves the Uinder dupes ol aura saaads of impoa-
tore? Yet,tbaiwora, that empty word, coercion,
has given scope to aa eloqacBce that, one wotria
imagine^ coola not be lired, and did not choose t4> '
be quieted.
Let us exaaaine atiU more in detail the nlrmim
tires that are before na, and we shall saaMely fhi
a power and libeity of the
If, as same have satneated, the thing called a
Treaty is iacotnplelet irlt ha* no biading force ot
obligation, the first qitestion is. Will this Hooaa
complete the intlrnateat and by concurring, im-
part to it that force which it wants?
The doetriae has been avowed, thai the Treaty,
tbongk fbrmaUv ratified by the Eixeeutrrr power 01
both natkma, tkeiq^ published as a law for out
own, by the PasaiacMT'e Procbuaatioa, ia EtiU a
mere prt^positian submitted to this assembly, no
way tUstuifuiahable in poiat of authority or obl^
gation from a motion 6m leave to hriaa' ia a. tiifl,
on any other orjgiaal act of ordinary legislatkn.
This dootnrte,^so aovel in ourcoaaory, yet, so dear
to masy, preeisely for the reason that, id the ea»-
tention of power, victory is always dear, ia obri-
ottsly repogttant, to the very terns. a> well at tlte
fail mBMpretaliaa of out own restduiioni — [Mt^'
Blooitt's.] We declare that the Treaty-fiiaKing
power is eiclosively veMcd in the PaenDBirr and
Senate, aad dm ia this House. Need I my that
we fly in thefteeof that reiohitioa whan we pre-
tend that the aets of that powei ate nac valid uih
Ul we hare conewred in tneBtl It would be ntm-
aeoae, oc troiae, to use the laiuinge of the moat
glariiv eontmdicCMa, and to cUita a diaie u a
power wbieh wcr at the same time, diaclaim aa
exclusively vested in other departments.
What caa be move atiange than tO'Say, that the
coa^MBte of the PaaaiBawp and Senate with ftv-
aign natioasaee Tteatiei, withoat oar agency, aai
yet those eampastswaDt all power and obtigatioa
tntlii tbey are sanetioned by oUr concunoBul It
ia not nry design in this place, if at all, to g» iaU
the discussion of this part of ti« lalgaet^ IwO,
.dbyGoogle
HI8T0HT OF CONGRESS.
fRJ
Execution of Brituh Treatf/.
[April, 179$.
at leaat foi the present take it for granted that
this monstrous opinion stands in little need of re-
mark, and, if it does, lies almost oot of the reach
of renitation.
But, say those who hide the absurdity under
the cover of ambiguons phrases, have we no dis-
cretion? And, if we have, are we not to make
privtle^, and we cannot surrender it without
equal inconsistency and breach of dnty.
If there be any .inconsistency in the case, it lies,
not in making appropriations for the Treaty, but
in the resolution itself— [Mr. Blodnt'b.] Let us
examine it more nearly. A Treaty is a bargain
between nations binding in good faith ; and what
makes a ba^ain ? The assent of the contracting
parties. We allow that the Treaty power is not
ID this House; this House has no share in con-
tracting, and is not a party ; of consequence, the
Peebidbht Bad Senate alone may make a Treaty
that is binding in good faith. We claim, how-
ever, say the gentlemen, b right to judge of the
expediency of Treaties — that is the ConstitndoDal
province of our discretion. Be it so — what fol-
lowsl Treaties, when adjudged by us to be in-
expedient, fall to the ground, and the public faith
is not hurt. This, incredible and extrdvafant as
it may seem, is asserted. The amount of it, in
plainer language, is this— the Prbhident and Se-
nate are to make national bargains, and this House
has nothing to do in nuking ibem. But bad bar-
gains do not bind this House, and, of inevitable
consequence, do not bind the nation. When a na-
ti(»)Hl hargaiJa, called a Treaty, is made, its bind-
ing force does not depend upon the making, bni
upon OUT opinion that it is good. Ai our opinion
on the matter can be known and declared otily by
otiTsetves, when sitting in our LegUative capa-
city, the Treaty, though ratified, and, as we choose
to term it, made,b hung up in suspense, till our sense
is ascert^aed. We condemn the bargain, and it
falls, though, as we say, our laith does not. We
spprOTB a bargain as expedient, and it stands firm,
■nd binds the nation. Yet, even in this latter case,
its force is jdainly not derived from the ratifica-
tion hy the Treaty-making power, but from our
approbation. Who will trace these inferences,
and pretend that we may haveno share, according
to the argument, in the Treaty-making power?
Theee opinions, nevertheless, have been advo-
cated with infinite zeal and perseverance. Is it
possible that dny man can be hardy enough f
avow them, and their ridiculous consequences 'I
Let me hasten to suppose the Treaty is cou
sidered as already made, and then the alternative
is fitirly presented to the mind, whether we will
observe the Treaty ' •■-—■■-
the naked question.
observe the Treaty, or break it This, in &ct, is
If we choose to observe it with good faith, our
coarse is obvious. Wbuever is stipulated to be
done by the nwion, must be complied with. Onr
agency, if it ^ould be requisite, caimot be proper-
ly refused. And I do not see why it is not aa ob-
ligatory a rale of conduct for the Legislature as
for the Courts of Law.
1 cannot lose this opportunity to remaiJt, that the
coercion, so mncb dreaded and declaimed agunit,
appears at length to be no more than the authori-
ty of principles, the despotism of dm y. Gentle-
men complain that we are forced to act in tfab
way, we are forced to swallow the Treaty. It is
very true, unless we claim ihe liberty of abase,
the right to act as we ought not. There is bnt
way open for us, the laws of morality and
1 faith have fenced up every other. Wbu
of liberty is that which we presume to exer-
againsl the authority of i)n>se laws? It is
for tyrants to com^ain that principles are re-
straints, and that they have no liberiy so long at
their despotism has limits. These principles will
' e unfolded by examining the retnaining ques-
Shali. we break the T^batt?
The Treaty is bad, fatally bad, is the cry. It
sacrifices the interest, the honor, the independence
party intemperance, the ertU are of a number not
to be counted, and of « nature not to be borncL
even in idea. The language of passion and ei-
aggeration may silence that of sober reastw in
other places, it has not dme it here. The q
admit that such a Treaty ought not to be executed.
I admit that self-preservation is the fiiM law of
society, as well as of individuals. It wooM. per-
haps, he deemed an abuse of terma to call tint a
Treaty which violates such a principle. 1 waive,
also, for the present, any inqninr what depart-
ments sbal I represen tthenati(H>,and annul thestipn-
lations of a Treaty. I content myself with par-
suing the inquiry, whether the nature of this com-
pact oe such as to justify our refusal to carry it
into effect? A Treaty is the promise of a nation.
NoWjpromises do not always hmd him that makes
them.
Bnt I lay down two rules which ought to guide
ns in this case. The Treaty must af^eoi to be
bad, not merely in the petty details, bnt in its cha-
racter, prinoi)de, and mass. And, in the next idace,
this ought to be oseenoined by the decided and
generaTeoncarrence of the enlightened public I
confess there seems to me somMbiog very like ri-
dicule thrown over the debate by the discaaaionof
the articles in detail.
The undecided point is, shall we break oar &ith )
And while our country and enlightened Surope
await the issue with more than curiosiiy, we are
employed to gather piecemeal, and article by mt-
tidf^ from the instmment, a jnstification for the
deed, by trivial calculations of commercial profit
and loss ; this is little worthy of the subject of this
body, or of the nation. If the Treatv is bad, it
will appear to be so in its mass. Evil, to a fatal
extreme,if that belts tendency, requires no proof;
it brings it. Extremes speak for themaelres ai^
moke their own law. What, ifthe direct Toyagc of
American ships to Jamaica, with horaea or lum-
ber, might nett one or two per cent, more than
the present trade to Buhnamf would the proof of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
April, 1796.]
Execution of British TVeoty.
[H.opR.
the fact trail anvthiiw in so gnre a questioa as
the violation of the public engagemenls 1
It is in Tain lo all^(e that our faith, plighted to
Prance, is riolated by this new Treaty. Our pri-
or Treaties are expressly saved from ihe openi'
tion of the British Treaty. And what do ihoae
mean who say th&t onr honor was forfeited by
treating at all, and especially by such a Treaty?
Jtutice, the laws Hod practice of nations, a just
re^rd for peace as a duty to mankind, ana known
'Wish of our citizens, as well as that self-reapecl
which requited it of the nation to act with dignity
and moderation — all these forbid an appeal to arms
before we had tried the effectof negotiation. The
honor of the United Stales was saved, not forfeit-
ed, bf treating. The Treaty itself, by its stipula-
tions for the posts, for indemnity, and for a due
observance of ourneutral right!!, has justly raised
the charaeter of the nation. Never did the name
of America appear in Earope with more Inslte
than upon the event of ratifying this iaslrument.
The fact is of a nature to overcome all contra-
diction.
Bat the independence of the country — we are
colonists again. This is the cry of the very men
Tvho tell us that Prance will resent onr exercise
of the rights of an independent nation to adjnst
onr wrongs with an aggressor, without givine her
the opportunity to say those wron^ shall subsist,
and sMll not be adjusted. This is an admirable
specimen ofthespint of independence. The Trea-
ty with Great Britain, it cannot be denied, is on-
niTorable to this strange sort of independence.
Few men, of any reputation for sense, among
those who say the Treaty is bad, will put that
reputation so much at hazard as to pretend that it
is so extremely bad as to warrant and require a
violation of public faith. The proper ground of the
controversy) therefore, is really unoccupied by the
opposers of the Treaty ; as the verv hinge or the
MMte is on the point, not of its being good, or
otherwise, but whether it is intolerably and fatally
pernicious? If loose and ignorant decleimeis have
anywhere asserted the latter idea, it is too eilrara-
Ent, and too lolidty refuted, to be repeated here,
itead of any attempt to expose it stiU further, I
will say, and I appeal with confidence to the can-
dor of many orooserr of Ihe Treaty to acknowl-
ed|^ that if it nad been permitted to go into ope-
ration silently, like out other Treaties, so little al-
teration of any sort would be made by it in the
great mass ot our commercial and agricultural
concerns, that it would not be generally discover-
ed, by its effects, to tte in force, during the term
for which it was contracted. I place considerable
reliance on the weight men of candor will give
to this remark, becatise I believe it to be tru& and
lit^ short of undeniable. When the panic-dread
of the Treaty shall cease, as it certainly must,it will
besecnthroDshaDOthermediom. Thosewhoshall
make search into thearticlesfor the cause of their
alarms, will be to far from finding stipulations that
-will operate fatally, they will discover few of them
that will have any lasting operation at all. Those
vhieh relate to the ditpoM between the two
coontries will spend their force upon the snbjects
in dispute, and extinguish them. The commercial
article* are more of a nature to confirm the ex-
isting state of things, jhan to change it. The
Treaty-alarm was pnrely an address to the ima-
gination and prejudices of the citizens, and not
on that account the less formidable. Objections
that proceed upon error, in fact or calculation,
may be traced and exposed. But such as are
drawn from the imagination, or addressed to it,
elode definition, and return to domineer over the
mind, after having been banished from it by
truth.
1 will not so far abuse the momentary strength
that is lent to me by the zeal of the occasion,
I enlarge upon the commercial operations of
the Treaty.
I procefd to the second proposition, which I
have stated as indispensably requisite to a refosal
of the performance of the Treatv. Wilt the state
of public opinion justify the deed?
} Government, notevena despotism, will break
its faith without some pretext ; and it must be
Elausible — it must be soch as will canr the pub-
e opinion along with it. Reasons of policy, if
not of morality dissuade even Turkey and Al-
giers from breacnes of Treaty in mere wantonness
of [Mrfid^, in open contempt of the reproaches of
their subjects. Surely a popular Government will
not proceed more arbitrarily as it is more free,
nor with less shame or scruple in proportion as it
has better morals. It will not proceed against the
faith of Treaties at all, unlesii the strong and de-
cided sense of the nation shall pronounce, not
sim)riy that the Treaty is not advantageous, but
that it ought to be broken and annulled. Such a
plain manifestation ot the sense of the citizens i*
indispensably requisite, first because if the popnlar
apprehensions be not an infallible criterion of the
disadvantages of the instrument, their aeqoies-
luld justify our setting it aside.
In the next i>laee, thii approTU
imMOTing opinion of the
ciii^ficait u mjiusiie aa uitd Dest preventive of the
ill c<Hiseqnences of a measure always so delicaU^
and oAen so hazardona. Individuals woold^ in
ilMt case at least, attempt to repel the oppr^rium
that would be thrown upon Congress by those
who will charge it with perfidy. They wonid
give weight to the testimony of &cts ana the an-
ihority of principles <hi which the Qovemmeni
woula rest its vindication. And if war should en-
sue apon the violation, our citizens would not be
divided from their Government, nor the ardor of
their courage chilled by the consciousness of in-
justice, and the sense oT htuniliatioo— that tense
which makes those desptcaUe who know they are
despised.
I add a third reason, and with me it has a force
that no words of mine can augment, that a Go-
emment wantonly refusing to fulfil its et)gage-
ments, is the corrupter of its citizens. Wilt t&e
laws continne to prevail in the hearts of the peo-
ple when the respect that gives them ^cacy ia
withdrawn from.the legislators? How shall we
punish vice while we practise it 1 We have not
;d by Go Ogle
HIS^r(»lY OF CC^GBJSSS.
1£48
jLofR.]
Ejitaition of BritiMlt Trtatg.
[AJ«I^I7ML
tanxj tund rain will b« onr leliance when ws bkre
focfaiUd tb« resourceB erf" opiiiMHi. To veakea
Govemmeat BDd to cwrnpt morals, Bt« eSeeCa of
a breach of faith uot to be prevetiled — and from
•fCects they becoms causes, ptodiMinc;, with aug-
DWDtiiig activity, more diionkr ana mon cor-
raptioD 1 order will be disturbed, and the life of
the public liberty shortened.
Aiid who, I would itHtuire, is haidy enon|^ tc
pretend ihat the public voice demandB the riola-
tioQ of the Treaty 7 The ^Tideoce of the sense of
the great mass of the nation is often equivooal.
But when wat it ever tanutiaWi with mon en-
ergy and ptecisitm thaa at the preaent momenti
Ths Toice of the people is iMted against iheiBea>-
sure of refusing the apBiopriations. If gentlemen
should urge, neverlheieas, that all this sound of
alarm is a counterfeit espceasion of the sense of
the pei^e, t will proceed to other piM^ Is the
Treaty ruinous to our commerce ? What has
blinded the eyes of the mnolumtfl and traders 7
Surely they are not enemies to trade, oi ifno-
lant of tbcii own interests. Tbair sense is not so
liaUe to be mistaken as that of a nuion, asd they
an almost iiBBairaoua. The articles stipulating
the redress of injuries by captofes on tha sea are
said to be delusive. By whom is this said t The
very men whose fortunes are staked won the
competency of that redress say no soeh thing.
Thay wait with anxious fear lest vou shcutd an-
nal that contrast, ob which all Iheir hopea ar«
ranted.
Thus we ofier ^oof,lillle short tg absolute de-
monstration, that the voice ot our canntry
raited, not to sanctitn, but to deprecate the nc
petforcaance of our engagements. It is not the
nation, it is one, and but one br^h of the Go-
Temwent that proposea to r^ect then. With
thifl^s^ct of thmgs^ to reJMt it is-a* act of des-
penttion.
I«haU ba aikad, why a Treaty ■» cood in some
articles, and so hamlesa in othen. oos met with
•nch uoreleDtiiig opMaition ; and' how the ela-
mrs against it, from New Hampshire to Oeorgia,
«aa be aoooaated fbt t The apprehmaieas so ex-
tensLTelr difinaed on its first publication, will be
Toue&ed as proctf that the Treuy is bad, aad that
the people hold it in ahhoneiKe.
I am not embarressed to flod the answer to tliis
iasinuBlion. Certainly a foresight of its perni-
cious operstion conld not have created all the
ftars Ihat were felt or affected. Thealarm spread
fhster than the publieatlon of the Treaty. There
Were more critics than readers. Besides, as the
anbrectwasexaminej those fears have subsided.
.The morementa of passion are qiriclter than
those of the nodetstairdlDg. We are to search for
the causes of first impressions, not in the articles
otihia obnoxiom and misrepresented instrument,
b«t in Ae state of the public feeling.
Tlie fervor of (he Bevolutionary war bad not
oMirely cooled, norlts controversies ceased, be-
fbr« the Musibilrties of onr citfaens were quicken*
*A with a tevfbM vivacity by a new and extraor-
dinary subjeot of irritatioo. One ofthe two great
natioDs of Europe undeiwaat • okanga, wkiakhas
attracted all our wonder, and intarested all «nr
sympathies. Whatever they did, the z«al of many
went with them, asd oftea went to excess. Thaw
impressions met with much to inflaBW, Kid v^
thing to restrain them. In onr newspapers, in «b
feasts, and some of out electiona, eathnsiBam was
admitted a merit, a test of patriotism, and that
made it contagious. la the opinion of party, wa
could not love or hate enough. 1 due say, ia
spite of all the obloquy it may ^ovoke, we weM
extravagant in both. It is my nght to avow that
"~ ~ lions so impetuous, enthusiasm so wild, eouU
subsist without disturbing the sober axercist
1, without putting at risk thepeaca azid
precious interests of our country. They wera
hazaided. I will not exhaust the little tveatb I
have left to say how much, nor by whma, or by
what means they are reacued from the saeiifica.
Shall I be called upoa to oger my proob? Tbey
are here — they are everywhere. No one has for-
gotten the proceedings of 1791.* No one baa for-
gotten the captures of our vessels, and the inuni-
nent danger of war. Tha nation thiraled not
merely for reparation, but vengeaoee. S« Beting
such wioogs, and agitated by such seniimoiu,
was it in the power of any words ,of eompae^ a
conld any paichmeat with its seals prevaifaiaaee
to tranquilize the people 1 II was impoaaible.
Treaties in England are seldom popul^, and leaal
of all when the atipulatioiw of asnity snceeetMlo
the bitterness of hatred. Even the bsat Treaty,
though nothing be refused, will choke rcaaatBtokl,
but not satisfy it. Every Treaty is as sure to dis-
appoint extravagant expeciatiooa a* to disarvt e^
travagant passions. Of the latter, hatred is oat
ihat takes no bribes. They wfao are animated by
the spirit of revenge will not be qoieied by the
possibility of profit.
Why do they comdain thar the West Indies
■ - " WhydotJ
e not laid open?
they larnenl that any
ntrtlauiavn
Pm|^ w«b u In Rhnd up, ud tqi i
pluiund Into ■ codIsM iibldi bu dona m
ntdnspplBeiaof ntUiMistbuiiU the in
aMMa^WSt, paicslfliff tiMl th> pi
nwnefld Us oparuiliiiis ac Uis pUee atUa UadlBc uid W hfa «ra
•omcT ud WBt tt Us r*"" "^ smj papalar jamim m* ia-
fimad, sad snn aamaiml mam tugtBjtt Iknaah aUtba
SUMS 10 ptodvcaaiMnBtudcaDnakiBMDausarcliissakudm
HKnalMmiamtetrQBnirmnmi. It nuat ba In a* nnBiviiaa
of in, ita dutM Uw IkBisiAii oouaa tu»»m an *ra^
■gaaiuaoutExecuUir%tMp«liliCDplnloBbc«tlaBasaadmu»'
fil and Hsdcelisd : (otas bMOt of our counur, ifasa sbI g/xit
mqm dtloMalr utanphsd oiwUili JBc•ail■^
Th« rewlutlonvTiatnBaf tlMcltlssnaeBMawa pactentid
•*■ ' mtsuBDMrctfinaiMf InsBiKdMawininlKbly
I Esf iHd, and iha hMi ami hsaDlV MHums lUft
^jrtJM ibkisssiip iw—wd naa^wi* fte Uatml
Tstasts BodaFranehrnBiailaaaifcniaai aanwHy bsna BwJacal
as oolaloD In Dm Btkbk CatilMt li^d* Qntotf SUUB wurtd ^
dmidslj^itfsia a war oathsMdeorFrancB, Tha Onteaif
tbsdttaori&midwr.BadUHfpaseli oF Laid DeaclMMrU da la-
id byGOOglc
rasrrOST GF COMORESS.
1S5*
■EMBWtiwi efSrituk TVatrty.
[B.otR.
itlndi
ia uriprtind en tkc ooHmerce of the
* f Wh^ do tiMy fnttad ihal If they
rajeet tint, and insitt qimhi more, mgre will oe
woonplMhad 7 LetiaM asplioit— more would
not HtHff . If kll WW fnurted, would not « Trea-
tf of Amity whh Oramt Britsin Mill be obnonona?
Hsve we aet ihu iartint heard it nrged a^iBst
ODr Envoy that be was not ardent eoonrit. m hu
hatred to Great Briiaia t A Treaty of Amity ia
eondemned beeaoae it waa not made by a foe, and
in the spirit of one. Tfae lame gentlemai ~ ''"
Praaoe. Tfo Treaty, exekim other*, Bhould be
made with a Monarch or a Deapoi. There will
be no naval aacnrity while these sea-robbers domi-
neer on tfae oecan. Their den muat be destroyed.
That natioa mnst be exlirixted.
I like ihia, ait, becanse it is sincerity. With
feelings sDBh aa these, we do not pant for Trea-
tiea. Snoh paaiions seek nothing, and wilt .be
GoiitBQt witb nothing but the deslruelion of their
object. If a Treaty left King Qeorge his island,
it woidd not answer, not if be stipulated to pay
rem for it. It baa been said, the world ought to
rejoice if Britain waa annk in the aea ; if where
there are now men and w«alth and law* and li-
berty, there was no more than a sand bank for the
aea-BM>nsle<a to ffttien on — a "paoe for the storms
of the ocean to mingle in conflict.
I objset nothine to the good sense or humanity
of ail this. I yield the point that this is a proof
that the age of reason is in progress. Let it be
philanlhropy, let it be pntriotiami if yon will, bnt
It is no indication that any Treaty would be ap-
proved. The difficulty is not to orercome the ob-
jections to the terms ; it is to restrain the re-
pugnance to any stipulations of amity with the
party.
Efavingr alluded to the rival of Oreat Britain, I
am not unwilling to explain myself. I affect no
eoaeealment, and I praetioe none. While those
two great nations agitate all EuiDpe with their
qntrrels, they will both equally desire, and with
any chance of snccess, equally endear<w to create
an influence in Amenca. Eaeb wilt exert all its
■Tta to range oar strength on ita own aide. How
is this to be effected 1 Our Oorernment is a De-
mocratical RepabUc. It will not be disposed to
pursue a system of polities in lubsemeDce to
either Prance or England, in opposition to ibe
general wishes of die citizens; and, if Congt«ss
shoold adopt sueb mea9m:es, they would not be
pursued long, nor with much sueeess. From the
nature of our QoTemment, poputarity is the in-
strament of foreign iaflnenoe. Without it, all ia
labw and disappointment. With tliat mighty
atuitiary, foreign intrigue findsagentanoionlyro-
lonteera, but competitors for employment, and any
thing like retoctaoce is understood to be a crime.
Has Britain this means of influence? Certainty
not. If her gold conld buy adherents, their be,
coming such would deprive them of all political
power and importance. They vronld not wield
molarity aa a weapon, but would fall under it
Bniain Imaae dnflDenee, aid, for tlie Teasons just
|tf«n, can have none. She has enoos^, an^ Qoi
forbid she ever should have more. Franoe, pos-
sessed of popular enthusiasm, of party attaeh-
meota, haa had, and atill has, too much infinenoe
in our politiM-^«By fbteign influence is too mucli,
and ought to be destroyed. I detest the mut and
disdain the apint Aat cm bend to a mean aubaei^
vianny to the views of any nation. It is enough
to be Ameiteaaa. That character comprehends
our duties, vai ought to engross our attachments.
But 1 would not be miennderaiood. I would
not break the alliance with France. I would not
have the c^maxion between the two countries
even a cold one. It should be cordial and sincere,
but I would banish that influence, which, by act-
ing on the paaaioDs of the cidtens, may acquire a
power over the Qovernment.
it is no bad protrf' of the merit of the Treaty
that, under all tDeae tufavorable ctTcomstaneea, it
should be ao well ap^ved. In spite of Srst im-
presaiens, in spite of misrepreseDtacions and party
clamor, inqniry haa mnltiplJed its advocates, and
at laat the public aehtimenl appears to me clearly
preponderating on its side. On the most caieftil
revww of the several branches of the Treaty— '
those which respect political arrangements, the
spoliations on our trade, and the regulation of
commerce — thore is little to be apprehended. The
evil, Hggnjued as it is by party, is little in degre^
and ^ort in duration. Two years from the end
of the European war, I aak, and I would ask the
question significantly, what are the inducements
to reject the Treaty? What ereat' object istoba
gftinedjBodlsirly gained by it? If, however, as to
the merits of the Treaty, candor should suspend
its approbation, what ia there to hold patnotism
a moment in balance as to the violation of it?
Nothinft; I repeat confidently, nothing. There
is nothing before ua in that event but confusion
and dishonor. Bnt before I attempt to develope
thoae consequenees, I must put myselt at ease by
some explanations.
Nothing is worse received amodg men than the
confutation of their opinions ; and of those, none
are more dear or more vulnerable than their politi-
cal opinions. To sav that a proposition leads to
shame and rain, ia oltnost equivalent to a charge
that the anpporters of it intend to prodnce them.
I throwmyselfup<mtbe magnanimity and candor
of those wLo hear roe. I cannot do juiUce to mv
subject, without exposing, as forcibly as I oan, aU
Ihe evils in prospect. I readily admit that in every
acieaoe, and moat of all in polities, error aprinp
from other source* than the want of aenseor integri-
ty. 1 despise indiscriminate jwofeasioiiB of eandor
and respect. Thereate indiridnalaoppoaedtome
of whom I am not bound to say anything. Bnt of
many, perhaps of a majority of the opposers of the
appropriations, it gives me pleasure to declare they
possesa my conSJdenoe and' regard. There are
among them individnals for whom 1 entertain a
cordial affection.
The consequences of refining to make provinon
for the Treaty are not all to be foreseen. By re
jecting, vast interests are committed to the sport
of the winds, ehutca beeoma* the arbiter of er«ita.
.dbyGoogle
HKTOBY OF CONGHBS&
H.0
i.J
EaxcuHon. of BritUh TVeoljr.
«nd it is forbidden to humsD foresight to count
their number, or meaaure their extent. Before we
reiolTe (o le»p into thi* abyss, bo dark and so pro- .
found, it becraaes us to pause and reflect upon su-'.h
of ihe dangets as are obrioui &nd ineritable. If ^
this assembly should be wrought iota a temper to '
. defy ibese cod sequences, it is rain,^t is deceptive, '
to pretend tlial we can escape them. It is worse
than weakness to say, that as to public faith our
vole has already settled the question. Another
tribunal than our own is alroady erected. The
Eoblic opinion, not merely of onr own conntry,
ut of the exiligblened world, will pronounce judg- '
meni that we cannot resist, that we dare not eren
affect to despise.
Well may I urge it to men who know Uie worth
of character, that it is no trivial calamity to hare
it contested. Refusing to do what the Treaty
stipulates shall be done, opens the controversy.
Even if we should Stand justified at last, a charac-
ter that is vindicated is something worse than it
stood before, unquestioned and unquestionable.
Like the piamtiff in an action of slander, we re-
coverareputationdisSgbred by invective, and even
tarnish^ by too mnch handling. Id the com-
bat for the honor of the nation, it may receive
some wounds, which, though Ihey shonld heal,
will leave some scars. I n^d not say, for surely
the feelings of ever^ bosom have anticipated, that
we cannot guard this sense of national honor, this
ev«r-Uving Ore, which alone keeps patriotism warm
in the heart, with a sensibility loo vigilant and
jealoDs. If, by executing the Treaty, there is
DO possibility of dishonor, and if by rejecting
there is some foundation for doubt and for re-
proacli, it is not for we to measure, it is for your
own feelings to estimate the vast distance that
divides the one side of the alternative from the
other. If, therefore, we should enter on the ex-
aminaticm of the question of duty and obligation
with some feelings of prepossession, 1 do not hesi-
tate to say, they are sucli as we ought to have ;
it is an after inquiry to determine whether they
aie such as ought finally to be resisted. ■
The resolution [Mr. BLonnT'e] is less explicit
than the ConsLitation. Its oatrons should nave
Ukade it more aa if possible, it they had any doubts
Of BteuUtha public should entertain none. Is it the
oenseof that vote, aa some have insinuated, that we
claim a right for any cause, or no cause at all, but
' our own sovereign will and pleasure, to refuse to
execute, and thereby to annul the stipulations of a
Treaiji 1 — that we have nothing to regard but the
expediency or inexpediency of the measure, being
absolutely free from ail obligation by compact to
give it our sanction t A ^trine so monstrous,
so fhuneless, b refvted by being avowed. There
ate no words you could express it in that would
not convey both confutation and reproach. It
would outrage the ignorance of the tenth century
to believe, it would baSe the casuistry of a Papal
Coancil to vindicate, t venture to say, it is im-
possible. Nolesa impossible than that weshouldde-
sire toBss.ert the scandalous privilege of being free
after we have pledged our honor.
It is doing injustice to the resolution of the
House (which I dislike on many aceonnu) to
strain the intetfreladon of it to this extnvagoDce.
The Treatv-makiug power is declared bjr it lobe
vested exclusively to the Pbesideht aad Senate.
WiUanv man in his senses affirm that it can be a
iity before it has any binding force or obliga-
1 If it has no binding force noou us, it has
Treaty b
upon Great Britain. Let candor answer, is
Great Britain free from any obligation to deliver
the postx in June, and are we wilUng to signify to
her that we think so? Is it with that uationa
question of mere expediency or inexpediency to
do it, and that, too, even after we have done ail that
depends upon us to give the Treaty etfeci 1 Ho
sober man can believe this — no. one who would
not join in condemning the faithleas proceedings
of ttuit nation, if such a doctrine should beavowed
and carried into practice. And why complain, if
Great Britain is not bound? There can be no
breach of faith where none is pl^rhted. 1 shall
be told that she is bound. Surely it follow:, that
if »he is bound to performance, our nation ia under
asimilar obligation; if both parties benot obliged,
neither is obliged — it is no compact, do Treaty.
This is a dictate of law and common aense, and
every jury in the country has sanciioaed it am
oath. It cannot be a Treaty, and yet no Treaty ;
a bargain, and yet no promise, ll it is a promise,
I am not to read a lecture to show why an honest
man will keep his promise.
The reason of tne thin^, and ihc word* of the
resolution of the Mouse, imply^ la^i the United
States engage their good faith m a Treaty. We
disclaim, say the majority, the Treaiv-making
power ; we of course disclaim (they ought to say)
every doctrine that would put a negative upon ihe
doingsof that power. It istheprerugauveof folly
alone to maintain both sides of a [HtqKisitioD.
Will any man affirm the American DatioD is
engaged by good faith to the British nation.
but that engagement is nothing to this Housef
Such a man is not to be reasoned with. Such a
ductiine is a coat-i'f-maiL tliat would turn the
edge of all the weapons of argument^ if they wete
sharper than a sword. Will it be imagined the
King of Great Britain and the Fbbbidekt ore
mutually bound by the Treaty, Int the two na-
tions ate free f It is one thing for this House to
stand in a position that presents an opporiimity to
break the faith of America, and another to esta-
blish a principle that will justify the deed.
We leel less repugnance to believe that any
other body is bound by obligation than our own.
There is not a roan here wno does not say that
Great Britain is bound by Treaty. Bringii uearei
home. Is >iie Senate bound? Just as much as tlt«
House, and no more. Suppose the Senate, as pazt
of ihe Treaty power, by ratifying a Tr^iy on
Monday, pledges the public faith to do a certain
act. Then, in their ordinary ca^city,a3a branch
of the Legislature, the Senate is called upon on
Tupsdajr to perform that act, fur examine, an ap-
propriation of money; is the Senate (so lately
under obligation) now free to agree or disagree to
the act? If the twenty ratifying Senators should
rise up and avow this principle, Eayiag, we slrug-
;«bvGoogle
1253
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
ExeaitioH of British Treaty.
[H.0
gle foi libertf, we will not be cyphers, mere pup-
pets, and give theii votes accardingiy, would not
shame bUsier their tOQEUes, would uoi infamy tin-
sle ia theii ears — would not ibeir country, which
they had insulted and dishonored, though il should
be silent and forgiTing, be a rerolutionaiy tribunal,
a rack on which (heir own reflections would stretch
themi
This, sir, is a cause that would be dishonored
and betrayed, if I contented myself with appealing
only to the undeistanding. It is loo cold, and its
processes are loo slow for the occasion. I desire
to thank God, that since he has given me an in-
tellect io fallible, he has impressed upon me an
instinct that is sure. On a question of^ shame and
honor, reasoning is sometimes useless, and worse.
1 feel the decision in my pulse ; if it throws no
light upon the brain, it kiujles a fire at the heart.
It is not easy to deny, it is impossible to doubt,
that a Treaty imposes an obligation on the Ameri-
can nation. It would be chUdish to consider the
President and Senate obliaed,aud thadiationand
the House free. What is Hie obligation ; perfect
or imperfect 1 If perfect, the debate is brought to
a conclusion. Ii' imperfect, how large a part of our
faith is pawned 7 Is half our honor put out at risk,
and is tnat half too cheap to be redeemed 1 How
lone has ibis hair-sptitiing subdiTision of good
iaitn been discovered, and why has it escaped the
researches of the writers on the Law of Nations ?
Shall we add a new chapter to that lew, or insert
this ^octtine as a supplement to, or, more proper-
ly, a repeal of, the Ten Commandmentsl
The principles and the examples of the British
Parliament have been alleged to coincide with the
doctrine of those who deny the obligation of the
Treaty. I have not had the health to make very
laborious researches into this suMect ; I will, how-
ever, sketch my view of it. Several instances
have been noticed, but the Treaty of Ubecht is
the only one that seems to be at all anplicaUe. It
has been answered that the conduct of Parliament,
in that celebrated example, affords no sanction to
our refusal to carry the Treaty into effect. The
obligation of the Treaty of Utrecht has been un-
derstooil to depend on the concurrence of Parlia-
ment, as a condition to its becoming of force. If
that opinion should, however, appear incorrect,
still the precedent proves, not that the Treaty of
Utrecht wanted obligation, but that Parliament
disregarded it; a proof, not of the construction of
the Treaty-making power, but of the violation of
a national engagrmeuL Admitting, still further,
that Parliament claimed and exercised its power,
not as a breach of faith, but as a matter of Constitu-
tional right. I reply that the analogy between Par-
liament and Coiigress totally fails.. The natureof
the British Government may require and justify a
course of proceeding in respect to Treaties that is
unwarrantable here.
The British Government is a mixed one. The
King, at the head of the army pi the hierarchy,
with an am^ civil list, hereditary, irresponaible^
and poisessmg the prerogative of peace and war,
may be properly ol»err^ with some jealousy, in
respect to the exercise of the Treaty-making pow-
er. It seetns, and perhapa from a spirit of cautton
on this acconnt, to be their doctrine, that Treaties
bind the nation, but are not to be regarded by the
Coorts of Law, until laws have been passed con-
formably to them. Our Constitution mis expressly
r^ulated the matter differently. The concur-
rence of Parliament is neeessary to Treaties be-
coming laws in England, gentlemen say, and here
the Senate, representing tlie States, must concur
Treaties. The Constitution and the reason of
e case make the concurrence of the Senate as
effectual as the sanction of Parliament. And why
noil The Senate is an elective body, and the
approbation of a majority of the States afiwds the
nation as ample security against the abuse of the
Treaty-making power, as tne British nation can
ijoy in the control of Parliament.
Whatever doubt there mav be as to the Parlia-
mentary doctrine of the obligation of Treaties
in Great Britain, (and perhaps there is some,)
there ia none in their books, or their modem proe-
tice. Blaclatone represents Treaties as of the
highest obligation, when ratified by the King;
and for almost a century there has been no in-
stance of opposition by Parliament to thia doo-
triue. Their Treaties have been aniformly carried
into effect, although aany have been ratified ofa
nature most obnoxious to party, and have pro-
duced louder clamor than we have latdy wiineas-
ed. The example of England, therefore, &irly
examined, does not warrant, it diaaittdea us from
a negative vote.
Gentlemen have said, with spirit, whatever the
true doctrine of our Constitution may be, Oieat
Britain has no risbt to complain or to dictate an
inierpretation: Tne senseof the American nation
aa to the Treaty-power is to be received by all
foreign nations. This is very true as a maxim ;
iKit Uie fact is against those who vouch it. The
sense of the American nation is not a* the vote of
the House has declared it. Our claim to some
agency in giving force and obligation to Treaties, is
beyond allkinu of controversy novel. The sense
of the nation is priAably against it : the sense of
the Government certalolv is. The Prbsidbnt
denies tt,0Q Constitutional grounds, and therefore
cannot ever accede to oiu* interpretation. The
Senate ratified the Treaty, and cannot witboiU
dishonor adopt it, as I have attempted to show.
Where then do they find the proof liiat this is the
American sense of the Treaty-making power,
which is to silence the murmurs of Great Britain i
Is it becanse a majority of two or three, or at the
most of four or five of this EJouse, will reject the
Treaty t Is it thus the sense of our nation is to
be recc^inised? Our Government may thus be
stopped m its movements : a struggle for power
may thus commence, until the event of the con-
ftict may decide who is the victor and the quiet
possessor of the Treaty power. But, at preaant,
It is beyond all credibility that our vote by a bara
majority should be believed to do anything better
than embitter our divisions, and to tear op the
settled foundations of our departments.
If the obligation of a Treaty be complete, I am
aware that casea sometimes exist whicn wul jus-
;dbvGoogle
IZiS
HisTOKF OP Qo^amn.
EwtaMm «f BiitiA lymty.
[ArKiL, 179Q.
ti^ B nation io reAuing a complianee. Are oar
libcrtiei (gentlemen demukd) to be bartered aTBy
br a Treaty, and la there no remedy 1 There k.
Bxtremea are aot to be snppoied. mit when they
han«D they make the law tor th^sel*es. No
inch «(tmae can be preCended in this inBiaBeej
and if it eiJBted, tbe aaihoiity it would confer to
throw off the oblisatkm would real, where the
obIig«lionitselfresMeSjinth«nation. ThisHoiue
li not the nation ; it u not the. whole delegated
anthorilT of the natioo. Bein; anly a part of
tint aumority, ita ritfkc to act for the whole soci-
ety obviously depends on lh« ooacurrence of the
other two tHancbes. {f they refuse to concur, a
Treaty once made remaini in full fiwce, allhongh
a breach on the pan of a foreiga nanon wovld
confer upon our own a rigfat to forbear the ezecu'
tion> 1 repeat it, even in that case, the act of this
House eaonot be admitted as the act of the nation,
■nd if the Pbbsidsnt and Senate (bould not con-
our, ihl Treaty would be obli^tory.
I put a case that will not Mil to prodnoe oon-
Ttolion. Onr Treaty with France eugase* that
free bottoms shall raake free goods, and how has
it been kept ? As such euoagsments will ever be
in time of war. Prance aa> set it aside, and
pleads imperious necessity. We hava do nary
to enforce the observance of snch articles, and
paper barners are weak against the vtolcnce of
. (hose who are on the scramDle toi enemy's goods
on the high seas. The branch of any article of a
Treaty by one nation gives an undoubted right to
the other to renounce the whole Treaty. But
has one branch of the Government that right, or
■uiit it reside with the whole suthority of the
nationl Whatiftbe Senate should resolve that
the French Treaty is broken, and therefore null
aad of no effscif The answer is obvious, yon
wonld deny their sole anthority. That branch of
(be Legislatare has equal power in this regard
with the House of Repiewntaiives. One branch
alone cannot exm^ss the will of the itatico. A
right to annul a Treaty, because a foreign ration
has brdien its artioleg, is o^ like the case of a
sufficient cause to repeal a law. In both cases the
branches of our Qovernment mnd o«Kur in the
ordinary way, or the law and the Treaty will
mnain.
The Tery
this argumcu, ooui
Thary will peraist in confoBading ideas that should
be kept distinct. They will suppose Chat the
Hanie of Repreaeatatives has no power unless
it baa all power. The House is nothing if it be
not the wiiole Govemment—^he nation.
On every hypothesis, the refere, the connldsifHi
is not to be resitted, we are either to execute this
Treaty or braak our taitk.
To expatiate on the ralne of pnblic faitln, may
pata with some men for daelamatioD ; to sBcn
aaen I have nothing tosay. To others I will nrge,
OML any oireumsiance tnaik opou a people more
torpiMde and debasement? Can anything tend
more to make men think themselves mean, or de-
gnde to a lower point theur estimation of rinue
~~ "' - ' ' ' Btionf ItwosldiMt mecdy'
nipposed bf my adversariei
wctnde against themsclree.
denoraliK manktvd. It tends to break all the Iig»-
ments of society, to disralve that mystertoos
ehann which attrack individwls to the nation,
and to inspire in its stead a repulsive sense of
shame and disgust.
What is patriotismi Is ita narrow afieetion
for the spot where a man was bom?. Are the
vetv clods where we tread entitled to this ardent
preference because they «re greener? No, sir,
this is not the cbaraoter of the vinne, and it soan
higher for its object.' It is an estMided self-love,
min^ag vritb alt the enjoymencs ot life, and
twisting itself wHh the minutest filaments of tbe
heart It is thus we obey the laws of society, be-
cause they are the laws of virtue. In their ao-
thofity we see not tbe array of f«rce and terror,
but the venerable image of our'country^ honor.
Every good citizen makes that hoaoi his own,
and cherishes it not onl^ as precious but as sacred.
He is willing to risk, his life in its defence, and b
conscious that henius protection whrle he girts
it. For w4iat rignts of a citizen will be deemed
inviolable when a State renoimces the princi|d(s
Ihatconstitutetheirsecurityl Or,if kisHfeshooId
not be invaded, what would its enjoyments be in a
country odious to the eyes of strangers and dis-
honored in hii own? Could he loM with afiix-
tion and veneration to such -a country as his la-
rentl The sense of having one would die wiihin
him ; be would blush for his patriotism, if he re-
tained any, and justly, for it would be a vice. He
would be a banished man in his native land.
I see no exception to the respect that is paid
amongnations to the'Law of Good Faith. If there
are eases in this enlightened period when it is vio-
lated, there are none when it is decried. It is the
philosophy of p<Jitic>— the religion o( Goven>-
meots. It is observed by barbarians that a whiff of
tobacco-smoke or a striog of beads gives not merely
binding force, but sanctity, to Treaties. Even
in Al^rs, a truce nay be bought for money, but
when ratified, even Algiers is too wise or too jost
to disown and annul its obligation. Thus, we see
neither the ignorance of savages, aiM' the princi-
ples of on association for piracy and rapine, permit
a nation todesfHse its eoeagements. If, sir, there
could be a resDrrectkm froin the foot of the galr
lows ; if the victims of justice could live again,
oollBet together, and fonn a society, they wonld,
howevM loth, soon find diemselves oUiged to make
jusijoe — that jiuiiee under wbich they fell— tbe
fundamental law of their Stale. The* would per-
ceive it was their interest to make others respec^
and they would therefore soon pay some respect
themselves to the obligations of good (uih.
It is painful (I hope it is superfiuoos} to make
even the supposition that America should furnish
the occasion of this ojqirobriDm. No, let me not
even imagine that a Repablican Gloremmeirt.
sprung, as our own ts, from a people enlightened
and uncompied; a Government whose origin ii
right aad whose daily discifAioe is doty, can, upon
sdlemo debate, make its option to be faithless-
can dare to act what despots dare not avow — what
OUT own example evinces the Slates of Barbery
IBM HpMtpeete) ofl No, let loe nAer moke the
;dbvG00gle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS,
Arau^ 1796.]
Exeoftitm of BrOith TVaaly.
[H.opR.
snpposilioB thtl Great Britain refases to execute
the Tmty, after we hsTe done ererylhin^ to carry
hintoeffect. lithereanyluiguageoi reproach pnn-
mnt enongh to eipreu your commentary on the
net? What woold you say, or rather what would
yonnotiay? Would tou not tell them, "Wherever
1 Engliuim
[ht traTcl, shame would stick
to him; hewoulddtsownbiscountryT" You would
exelajm, "England — proud of your wealth, and
am^ntinlhe possession of power — blush for these
distinctions which become the vehicles of yonr
dishonor 1" Snchanatioumight truly say to Cor-
ruption, " Thou art my fiither, and to the Worm,
thou art my mnther and ■istei;)'' We shoulit say
of such a race of men, their name is a heavier
burden than their debt.
1 can scarcely persuade myself to believe that
the consideration I baTe Biiga[ested reouires the aid
of any auxiliary. But, noTartnnateiy, auxiliary
arrnments are at hand. . Five millions of dollars,
ana probably more, on the score of spoliations
committed .on oar commerce, depend upon the
Treaty. The Treaty offers the only prospect of
indemnity. Such redress is promised as the mer-
chsmts place some confidence in. Will you inter-
pose and frustrateHfaat hope, leaving to many fam-
ilies nothing but beggary and despair? It is a
smooth proceeding to take a vole in this body. It
takes leM than half an hour to call the yeas and
nays and reject the Treaty. But what is the effect
of It? What, bat this: the very men, formerly
so loud for redress — such fierce champions, that
even to ask for justice was too mean and too slow-
now tarn their capricious fnry upon the sufferers,
and say, by their vote, to them and their families,
" No longer eat bread I Petitioners, go home and
starve; we cannot satisfy your wrongs and our
resentments !"
Wilt you pay the sufferers out of the Treasury?
No. The answer was given two years ago, and
appears oa our Joornals. Will you give them
an opportunity for those who had already lost much
to lose more. Will you go to war to avenge their
injury ? If you do, the war will leave yon no
money to indemnify them. If it should be nnsuc-
cesafnl. you will aggravate existii^ evils ; ifsuc-
eesaful, your enemy will have no treasure left to
£'*« onr merchants; the first losses wilt he con-
undedwith mnoh greater, and l>e forgotten. At
the end of the war there most be a negotiation,
which is the very point we have already gained,
and why relinqaish it? And who will be eonfi-
dnit that the terms of the negotiation, after a deao-
laling war, would be more aeeeptable to another
Moose of Representatives than the Treaty before
usT Members and opinions may be so changed,
Uiai the Treaty would then l>e rejected for b«Dg
what the present majority say it should be. Whe-
ther we shall g(t on making Treaties, and refusing
to execute them. I know not ; — of this I am cer-
lain, it will be very difficult to exercise the Treaty
making power, on the new principles, wilh much
reputation or advantage to the coantr]r.
The refusal of the post* (ineTltable if wo KJect
>r advantage ti
lal of the poati
4th Cox. — 41
the Treaty) is a measure too decisive in its nature
to be neutral in its consequences. Prom great
causes we ore to look for great efieets. A [Jain
and obvious one wilt be, the price of the Western
lands will fall. Settlers will not choose to fix
their habitation on a field of battle. Thone who
talk so much of the interest of the Usited States,
shonld calculate how deeply it will be affected by
rejecting the Treaty— how vast a tract of wild
land wiQ almost cease to be properly. This loss, -
let it be observed, will fall upon a fund expressly
devoted to sink the National Debt. What then
are we called upon to do? However the form of
the vote and the protestations of many may dis-
guise the proceeding, our resolution is in substance
(and it deserves to wear the title of a resolution)
to prevent the sale of the Western lands and the
discharge of the Public Debt.
Will the tendency to Indian hostilities be con-
tested byanyone? Experience gives the answer.
The frontiers were scourged with war till the ne-
gotiation with Britain was far advanced, and then
the state of hostility ceased. Perhaps the pnblic
agents of both nations are innocent of fomenting
the Indian war, and perhaps they are not. We
ou^bt not however to expect that neighboring
nations, highly irritated against each other, will
neglect the friendship of the savages. The traders
will gain an influence, and will abuse it ; and who
is ignorant thai their passions are easily raised, and
hardly restrained from violence. Their situation
will oblige them to choose between this country
and Great Britain, in case the Treaty should be
rejected. They will not be our friends, and at the
same time the friends of our enemies.
lut-am 1 reduced to the necessity of proving
i point? Certainty the very men who charged
the Indian war on the detention of the posts will
callfor no other proof than the recitatof their own
speeches. It is remembered with whal empha8i»—
with what actimony— they expatiated on the bur-
den of taxes, and thb drain of blood and treasure
into the Western country, in consequence of
Britain's holding the posts. " Until the posts are
restored," they exclaimed, " the Treasury and th»
frontiers must bleed."
If any, against all these proofs, should maintain
that the peace with the Indians will be suble with-
out the posts, to them I will urge another reply.
From arguments calculated to produce conviction,
I will appeal directly to the hearts of those who
hear me, and ask whether it is not already planted
there? I resort especially to the convictioni of
the Western gentlemen, whether, supposing uo
pmts end no Treaty, the settlers will remain in
security? Can they take it upon them to say that
an Indian peace, under these circumstances, wUl
prove firm? No, sir, it will not be peace, but a
sword; it will be no better than a lure to draw
victims within the reach of the tomahawk.
On this theme, my emoiioiis are unutterable.
If I could find words for them — if my powera bwe
any proportion to myzeal— Iwonld swell myvoiee
to such a note of remonstrance it sbonld reach
every Ii.^-li .iw beyua'I '.he no'intnin". ' wciH
say to tui; iaualfitanls, \V nkc from your t'alM »eou-
.dbyGoogle
IftM
ffiSTOSr OF CONCttBN.
H-ofBO
Em^emiM </ ffritiah JV— |y.
tAnu^lWB.
ikfl YoiitenwldaiigH*— youmoHonMlBppre-
kwwifMa— «Te MWD lo be teMwed ; the woniub,
St unhealed, aie to be torn open tgaim. in tike
<f time, your pnlh tbroagh ibe wooda will be
ambuahed i the datkaen or midnight will glittei
wilhlheblkzeoryoutdwelliDgs. Younreafnther:
the blood of your son* ahall fatteo your coTn-^eU '
You aie a mother : the war-whoop ahall wake the
deep of the cradle 1
On this subject yon need not suapect any de-
ception on yotu feelmgt. It isautectacie of horror
which cannot be overarawn. It you have nature
in your hearu, it will speak a language compaied
wilb wbich all 1 hare said or can say will be poor
and frigid.
Wilfit be whispered that the Treaty has made
me a new champion for the protection of the froo-
tiers 1 It is known (hat my vraee, hi well as my
vote, have been uniformly given in conformity
with the ideas I hare expressed. Protection )~
the right of the froutiet : it is our duty to give it
Who will accuse me of wandering out of the
subject 1 Who will say that I exaggerate ihe len-
deooies of our measures 1 Will any one answer
by a sneer, that all this is idle preaaliing^ Will
any one tkny that we are bound— and I would
hcipe lo good purpose— by the moU solemn
tiona of duty for the vote we giTe 1 Are df ,
alone to be reproached Tor uiueeting indifferenoe
o the tears and blood of their subjects} Are Re~
publicans irresponsible 1 Have the principles on
which yougtound the reproach upon Cabinets and
ELings no practical iofluence — no binding force 1
Are they merely themes of idle declamation, in-
troduced to decorate the morality of a newspaper
«May, or to furnish pretty topics of harangue
ttota the windows of that State-house 1 I trust
it is neither too presumptuous, nor toe
can yoQ put the dearest interest of society at risk
without ^ilt, and without remorse 1
It is vain to offer as an excuse, that publi
are not to be reproached for the erils that
may bi^)pea to ensue from their measures. This
is very true, where they are nnforeseen o» ineri
table. Those I have depicted are not unforeseen
they are so far from inevitable, we are going ti
bring them into baing by our vote. We choose
the co&sequraices, ana become as justly answera-
Ue for them as for the measure that we know
will produoe them.
By rejecting the posts, we light the savage
firea— -we bind the victims. This day we under-
take to render account to the widovrs and or-
phans whom our decision will make; to the
wretches that will be roasted at the stake ; to our
country ; and I do not deem it too serious to say,
to conacience, aod to Qod — we are answerable ;
aud if duty b«>aitything more than a word of im-
posture, if conscience be not a bug-beat, we are
preparing to make- ourselves as wretched as our
country.
There is no mistake in this case ; there can be
Bone. Experience has already been ihe profihei
of events, and the cries of our future victims
have already reached us. The Western inhabi-
tants aia not a silent and uncomplaining sacrifice.
The voice of hnmanity issoea fron tbe shade of
^eir wildemeo. It ezclsimi th^ irtjle oae
hand is held up to reject this Treaty, tbe Mha
^nape a tomahawk. It sumwons o«r imagina-
tion to the scenes that wiU opai. It is no great
tSon of the imaginatiim to concave, that eveali
so near are already began. I can foncy that I
listen to the yells of savage vengeance, and the
shrieks of torUwe. Already (hej eeem to si|^
in the West wind ; already they mmgle with every
echo from the mountains.
It is not the part of prudence to be inattentive
to the tendencies of meaaures. Where there is
any groond to fear that these will be pemicioa^
wisdom and duty forbid that we snoold un-
derrate them. If we r^ecl the Treaty, will
oui peace be as safe as if we execute it with
good fkith ? I do honor to the iutie^d s^rit
of those who say it will. It was formerly na-
derstood to eoustitnte the excellence of a man's
faith, to believe withtmt evidence, and against iL
But, as opinions on this article are chawed, and
we are called to act for our country, it becooin
us to explore the dangers that will attend its
peace, and to a,void them if we can.
Few of us here, and fewer sitll in pro^ottica
of our constituent* will doubt that, by rqectia^
all those dangers will be aggravated.
The idea of a war is treated as a be^ beat.
This levity is, at least, nnseasmiaUe ; and. most at
all, unbecoming some wfao resort to it.
Who have forgotten the philippics of 1794^ The
cry then was. reparation, no Envoy, no Treaty,
no tedious tielBys! Now, it seems, the pas-
sion subsides; or^ at least, the hurry to satisfy
it. Great Britain, say they, will not wage wai
In 1794, it was urged br those who ttow tty,
no war, that if we built trigates, or resisted the
S rates of Algiers, we could not expect pease,
ow they give excellent comfort, truly I Great
Britain has seized our vesaels and cargoee, to the
aioouiit of millions ; she holds the posts ; she in-
terrupts our trade, say they, as a neubal naticm;
and these gentlemen, formerly so fierce for re-
dress, assure us, in terms of the sweetest conso-
lation, Qreal Britain will bear all this patiently.
But, let me ask the late champions of oor rights,
will our nation bear it 1 Let crthers exult be-
cause the onreesor will let our wrongs sleep
forever. WHl it add, it is my duty to ask, to
the patience and quiet <^ our eitizena, to see
their lights abandoned 1 Will not tbe disap-
pointment oi their bitpes, so l<m^ patKmiced bf
the Oovernmeni, now in (he crisis of tbeir betng
realized, convert all their passions into fiuy ftud
sspairl
Are Ihe posts to temain forever ia the poasea-
sion (^ Oreai Briuin 1 Let those who reject
them, when the Treaty oflers them to ov band^
say, if they choose, they are of no impwlance. It
they are, will the^ take them by force 1 Tke ar-
gument I am urging would then come to a poinL
To use force, is war. To talk of Treaty again, b
too absnrd. Posts and redrew must come from
voluntary good will, Treaty, <a mi.
.d by Go Ogle
mwmn^ op aammm.
im^
AF«l^^7»6.]
Bxmaiaa <f Brit^ TVoKy.
[Ror^.
Tb« conotoaion is plain ; if the qt&te of peace
shall coQtiDue, so will Uie British poiiaessiao of
Look agaio at (his suite of things. On the sea-
coast, vast lasses uncompensated. On the fron-
tier, Indian war, actual encroachment on our
Territory. Everywhere discontent ; resentments
ten-fold more fierce, because they will be im-
potent and humbled ; national discord and aba«e-
The disputes of the old Treaty of 1783 bein^
lefi to rankle, will revive the almost ezlinsuished
animosities of that period. Wars, in all eouu-
tries, and, most of all, in such as are free, arise
jrom the impetuosity of the public feelings. The
despotism oi Turkey is o/ten ohliged, by clamor,
to UDsbeath the sword. War might, peihapv, be
delayed, but could not be prevented. The cau-
ses of It would remain, would be agf^ravated,
would be multiplied, and soon become intolera-
ble. More captures, more impreuQieDts, would
swell the list of our wrongs, and the cucrent- of
our rage. I make no calculation of the arts of
those whose employment it has been, on former
occaiioas, to fan the fire. I say nothing of the
foreign money and emissaries that might fo-
ment the spirit of hostility, because the slate of
things will naturally run to violence. With less
thao their former exertion, they would be suc-
Will our Oovernment be able to temper and re-
strain the turbulence of such a crisis? The Go-
TemmenC, ala.i, will be io no capacity to govern.
A divided people, and divided councils i Shall
we cherisb the spirit of peace, or show the cuer-
giesof whtI Shall we make our adversary afiaid
of our strength, or dispose him. by the measures
of resentment and broken faith, to respect our
rights 1 Do gentlemen rely on tne stale of peace
because both nations will be worse drsposed to
keepit; because injuries, and insults still harder
to endure, will be mutually offered 7
Such a state of things will exist, if we should
Ions avoid war, as will be worse than war. Peace
without security, accumulation of injury without
redress, or the nope of it, resentment against the
aggressor, contempt for ourselve^ intestine dis-
cord and anarchy. Worse than this need not be
apprehended, lor if worse could happen, anarchy
would bring it. Is this the peace gentlemen un.
dertake, with such fearless confidence, to main-
tain ? Is this the station of American dignity,
which the high-smnted champions of our naiioDai
independenceanahouiH could endure i nay, which
'they are anxious and almoit violent to seize for
the country? What is there in the Treaty that
could humble w so low t Are they the men to
■wallow their resentments, who so lately were
choking with them? If in the case contem-
platedDV them, it should be peace, I do not hesi-
tate to declare it ou^ht not to be peace.
la there anything m the prospect of the interior
meat ? U this the dumeia 1 h it goijig ofi the
5 round of matter of fact to say, the rejection of
le appropriation proceeds upon the doctrine of a
civil war of the departments! Two bianohea
have ratified a Treaty, and we are going to set it
:. How is this disorder in the machiqe to b«
rectified? While it exists, its movements mn«t
stop, and when we talk of a remedy, is (hat any
other than the formidable one of a revolutionary
interposition of the people? And is this, in the
judgment eveji of my opposars, to execute, to pre-
serve the Constitution, and the public order? Is
this the state of hazard, if not of convulsion,
which they can have the courage to contemplate
and to brave, or beyond which their penetration
can reach and see the issue ? They seem to be-
lieve, and they act as if they believed, that our
tJnion, our peace, our liberty, are invulnerable
and immortal — as if our happy stale was not to
be disturbed by our dissensioDS, and that we are
net capable of falling from it by our unwotthi-
ness. Some of them hare no doubt better nerves
and better discernment than mine. They can
see the bright aspects and happy consequences of
all this array of horrors. They can see intestine
discords, our Government disor^^ized, ourwronn
Bggiarated, multiplied and unredressed, ^>eace with
dishonor, ftr war without justice^ union or re-
sources, ia "the calm lightt of ioild jMloaOf
But whatever thay mar anticipate as the next
measure of {irudence ana safety, they have ex-
plained nothing to the Uoum. Af^er lejectiog
the Treaty, what is lobe the next step? They
must have foreseen what ought to be done, they
have doubtless resolved what to propose. Whj
then are they silent? Dare they not avow then
plan of conduct, or do they wait till oar prtwress
towards confusion shall guide them in lom-
ingit?
IiBt me cheer the mind, weary no doubt and
readv to despond on this prospect, by presenting
another, which it is yet in our power to realize.
Is it possible for a real American to look at the
prosperity of this country without some desire for
Its continuance, without 5(»iie respect for the
measures which, many will say, produced, and all
will confess, have preserved it? Will he notfeel
som<i dread that a change of system will reverM
the scene? The well-grounded fears of our citi-
zens in 1794 were removed by the Treaty, but
are not tbreotten. Then they deemed war nearly
inevitable, and would not this adjostment have
been considered at that day as a happy escape
from the calamity? The great interest, and the
general desire of our people, was, to eigoy the ad-
vantages of neutrality. This instrument, how-
ever misrepresented, affords America that inesti-
mable security. The causes of our disputes are
either cut up by the roots, or referred to a new
negotiation, alter the end of the European war.
This was gaining everything, because it confirmed
OUT neatrality, by which our citizens are saining
everything. This alone would justify Uie en-
gagements of the Government. For, when the
fiery rapors of th« war lowered in the skirts of
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONORESS.
H.orR.]
Eaxcutum of Britith TVeaty,
[Ap■l^l796.
oar horizon, lU oor wishes were concentered in
this one, thtt we might escape the desohtion of
the storm. ■ This Treaty, like a rainbow on the
edge of the cload, marked to our eyes the space
where it was raging, and afforded at the same
time the sure prc^ostic of fair weather. If we
reject it, the ririd oolors will grow pjle ; it will
be a balefal meteor, portending: tempest and war.
Let us not hesitate, then, to agree to the appro-
priatim to carry it into faithful execution. Thus
we shall save tne faith of oor nation, secure its
pesce, and diffuse the spirit of confidence and en-
terprise that will auKinent its proaperiiy. The
progress of wealth ana improrement is wooderfol,
ana some will think, too ra[>id. Tbe field for ez-
eriion is frnitful and tbsI, and if peace and good
GoTemment should be preserved, the acquisitions
of our citizens are not so pleasing as the proofs of
their industry, as the icslruments of their future
success. The rewards of exertion go to augment
its power. Profit is every hour becoming capi-
tal. The vast crop of our neutrality is ^ seed
wheat, and is sown again to swell, almost beyond
calculation, the fnture harTcst of prosperity: and
in this nrogress, what seems to be fiction, is found
to ^11 snort of experience.
I rose to apeak under impresaions that I would
have resisted if I could. Those who see me will
belieTe that the reduced state of my health bas
unfitted me, almost equally, for much exertion of
body or mind. Unprepared for debate, by care-
ful reflection in iny retirement, or by long atten-
tion here, I thought tbe resolution 1 had taken to
sit silent, was imposed by necessity, and would
cost me no efibri to maintain. With a mind thus
racaat of ideas, and sinking, as I really am, under
a sense of weakness. I imagined the very desire
of speaking was eiiing'iished by the persuasion
that f had nothing lo say. Yet, when I come to
the momentof deciding the vote, I start back Vith
dread from the edge oi the pit into which we aie
plunging. In my view, even the minutes I have
■pent in expostulation have their value, because
taej protract the crisis, and the short period in
which alone we may resolve lo escape it.
I bare thus been led by my feelings to speak
inoreattengththanTbadintended;yet I have, per-
haps, as iitlTe personal interest in the event as any
one here. There is. I believe, no member who
will not think his chance to be a witness of the
coDseouences greater than mine. If, however, the
TOte Biiould pass to reject, and a spirit should rise,
at It will with the public disorders to make con-
fosion worse confounded,even I,slender and almost
broken as my hold u_pan life is, may outlive the
Government and Constitution of my country.
At the conclosion of Mr. Ames'b speech, there
was again a divided cry of " Committee, rise," and
" The question ;" when—
Mr. vENABLE said, he hoped the question would
not be taken to-day. The business was allowed
on all hands to be important,a! d one dayhe trusted
would not make much difference. He said there
were mischievous effects staring ihera in the face,
look which way they would ; for if they refused
10 carry the Treaty into effect evils might be
dreaded, and if they carried it into effect very aeri-
ous evils would eertainir arise. The question was
to choose the least of Uie two evils. He himsdf
was not determined at present which was the least,
and wished for another day's consideration.
The Committee divided, and there appeared 70
members for rising. Adjourned.
FainAT, April 29.
Mr. Go0DBi7t!, Gha'man of the CaramittBe of
Commerce and Manufactnrea, reported an act to
continue in force an act in the State of MarylaDd
for the appoinlmcrt of a Health Officer at the
port ofBaltimore; which was twice read and order-
ed to be engrossei' for the third reading.
Mr. B&LowiN ' lied up a hill relative to the
Military Establisument ; upon which the House
formed itself into a Committee of the Whole,
and after agreeing upon some amendments, one
of which was the introduction of a troop or two
of light dragoons into the establishment, me Com-
mittee rose, and bad leave to sit again.
EXECUTION OF BRITIBH TBEATY,
Numerous petitions were presented and referred,
in favor of carrying the Treaty into effect
Mr. Seoowicx informed the House that he had
in his band a letter from Boston, addressed to the
Representatives of Massachusetts in Congress,
informing them that a public meeting had been
held to consider upon the propriety of peliiion-
'lit be taken to carry the British Treaty into
efiect, at which it was supposed 3,300 persons
were present, and that more than I.SOO were in
favor of the measure. As it appeared the petition
which was agreed on at thai meeting would not
come to hand until the next poat-day, and as the
question to which it related might m the mean
time be taken, he and his coUeagues thought it
necessary to make this communication.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on tbe state of the Union ; and
the resolution for carrying into effect the British
Treaty being under consideration —
Mr. N. Smitb said it was with diffidence he rose
to offer any of his sentiments to the Committee,
after so many able arguments had been exhibited
on the subject ; but he should beg leave to offer a
few remarxs relative to some parts of the T.'.-aty,
and also to evince that the national faith must he
considered as already pledged; hut, even if this
was not the case, that, under all the circnmstances
relating to the question before them, it was expe-
dient to give effect to the Treaty. He observed
that the gentleman from Pennsylvania fMr. Fini>-
let] appeared yet to be in doubt whether the ap-
pointment of Commissioners to settle the claims
on the United States did not render the Treaty
unconstitntiiinal. Mr. S, said, if tbe arguments
already offered on that subject bad not convinced
tbe gentleman, be very much doubted whether
any arguments could convince him. They ap-
peared to him conclusive. All tbi- C< tnn^i .s''-r--
ers were empowered to do. w.is to settle- claimi on
.dbyGoogle
HISTOBT OF CONGRESS.
1366
APBI^ 1796.]
Extcution of Britith TVeatif.
[H.0
thenalioD. The Jodickry had ao power to decide
OD claims against the United States. It was abso-
lutelyoecessary, therefore, whenever disputes arose
in consequence of claiois on the QoTernmeat, to
establish a new forum; and there was no room for
a pretence of interference with the Judiciary, so
long as the Commissioners were to do what (he
Judiciary coold not do, even if they were not ap-
pointed.
A gentleman up two days since, [Mr. Galla-
TIN,] had concluded ■ loi^t; speech oy observing
that he could even waive tae whole of his objec-
tions to that Treaty, were it not for one article,
which he told us contained ^ it a dereliction of
out independence; and he cunfessed, before the
gentleman informed them wha '^ article he referred
to, he was almost induced to l,,^eve, after all his
attention to the subject, he ha^ overlooked some
essential article in the Treaty which would again
inlnxluce the Colonial system, and subject us once
more to British tyranny ; but, to his astonishment,
when the gentleman came to tarn their attention
to the article, it appeared to be no more than the
18th article, contaming regulations relating to pro-
perty which is coDirabaiid by the Law of Nations,
and IS in general merely declaratory of the Law
of Nations. The gentleman, however, as well as
several others, had contended that the second para-
graph in the ISlh article contained a general pro-
Tision that articles :
Dtrabaad, but
ticular circumstances,
but be detained and paid for; and that the last
paragraph contained a provision, that whenevet a
vessel was bound to a blockaded port, not knowing
U 10 be blockaded, she should be notified and turned
away ; after whicn, if she again attempted to enter,
her cargo might be confiscated, though the arti-
cles were not generally contraband. They con-
tended further, that, by the Lawof Nations, noother
instance can be found where property not generally
contraband may be regarded as such, from particu-
lar circumstances, except a vessel bound to a block-
aded port. Of course they say, the last paragraph
provides for confisealiDg all the property not gen-
erally contraband, but becomes so from circum-
stances, and therefore provides for confiscating the
verv articles which the second paragraph declares
shall not be confiscated, but be detained and paid
for. The second paragraph consequently can nave
no -operation, unless they find another meaning
than what results from an obvious construction of
the words used in the paragraph Itself. Thev
accordingly suppose it must mean ilratthe Brttisb
may take our vesseb io any case where they please,
even where the articles would in no sense be con-
traband by the Law of Nations, and pay us for
them.
This, he believed, was a full and a jnst state-
ment of the objection. He said the gentleman
from Pennsylvania [Mr. Gallatin] had taken a
most singuur mode in construing this article in
the Treaty. That gentleman began at the last
end of the article, and traveled backwards to the
llrst. He always had supposed the way to put r
jut construction on an mstrumcnt ^^ to begi)
at the befritmiog and go through with it, in the
manner it was written. If the latter mode was
taken, there could not even be a question relating
this article, He did not believe it was the m-
ition of the person who wrote that article in
the Treaty to render any properly liable to con- '
fiscalion by the last paragraph. He believed it
designed merely to pursue the second, with
suiue additional regulations, and the words, nor
Act- cargo, before the words, if not contraband,
as well as the words, be confitcated, which imme-
diately succeeded them, appeared to him to have
been rather incautiously used than with any posi-
tive design to render property liable to confisca-
tion, which a preceding parwaph had expressly
provided should not be coo^eated, but ooly de-
tained and paid for. Bat allowing the construc-
tion of the gentleman relative to the lost para-
graph to be just, yet it did not comprehend vea-
els which set out from home for the purpose of
;oing to a blockaded port, and which t^d not
«en notified and turned away. These are, then,
left for the second paragraph to operate upon ; the
second and last paragraphs would accordingly
stand in this way. The second, by general terms,
provides that vessels setting out from home, with
a design to go to a blockaded port, and never hav-
ing been notified and turned away, shall only btt
detained, and her cargo paid for. The last pro-
vides, that where she has been notified and turned
away, and shall again attempt to enter, her cargo
may oe confiscated. There was, in his opinion,
a good reason why goods should be confiscated in
the last ease, and not in the first. The intention.
previously to having been notified and turned
away, was a fact of all others the most difficult
to prove, and liable to a great uncertainty, whereas
the attempt to enter after having been notified,
left uo room for doubt or uncertainty. It was
highly proper, therefore, to be much more rigor-
ous respecting the last than the first. Bat sup- .
pose the last paragraph directly repugnant to the
second^ the uuiversiu rule of construction rel^
tive to mstruments like this is, thai the last must
be rejected. But if he was to admit further, that
preceding paragraph is to fall before a suc-
hng one. still would any gentleman pretend.
the ,
ceeding u^^. .i__ , _ ,
that after they had proved this. .it can have no
effect, because opposed to anottter paragraph t
They are, then, at liberty to put what construc-
tion upon it they please, and that they may con-
strue it to mean directly opposite to the plain mean-
ing of the words. This would be absurd. He then
read the paragraph in i^uestion. He observed,
that the paragraph provided for detaining nu«h
articles, and suca only, as were contraband by
the Laws of Nations, and how it could be c(Ht-
strued to mean such as were not contraband br
the Law of. Nations, was to him astonishing. It
was said, if the construction of the gentleman
was not right, that the British nation will give it,
such construction. This objection was more im-
portant, as it had been urged against several other,
articles of the Treaty. IndeM, he found it coin-
mon for gentlemen to contend for a certain con-
struction, and nnwUling at last to take on them-
.dbyGoogle
19*7
fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
1^68
Execution of British Trtaty.
H.orR.]
[AFBI^1796.
selves the respoosibilirj of declaring it as their
own opibion, that the cod si ruction they contended
for was the tme one ; they coDclude bv saying,
that perhaps the British may put such a coo-
atruction upon it, as ifwe were not an independent
DatioD,and were bound by whatever construciioD
the British nalioQ put upon it, right or wrong.
He said he could not hel^ their putting a false
construction upon it, any more than we could
their breaVing it, and our remedy was the same
in both ca-ies. Besides, it was an objection, if
well founded, which would prore that no Treaty
could be made, for all Tr«aties were liable to mis-
construction. But eren on the gentleman's own
construction of this article, he was surprised to
hear it called a dereliction of oar independence ;
for, suppose it is^altowed them to take some of
our provision vessels, and pay us for them, such
s stipulation, he airreed, would be a very foolish
one; but there was nothing like a dereliction df
am own independence in it, and when gentlemen
msde use of such expressions, they must do it
merely to alarm.
Another article in the Treaty was said to de-
prire US of important weapons of defence. This
ms the article relative to Kquestration. He con-
fts«ed, at first, that article struck him as objectioa-
Mit ; for, though he could not look forward to
the period when it might be used, yet he did not
tike the idea of surrendering the right; but, on
more mature consideration, as the present Treaty
Mttles dmost dl oar dispntes with that nation,
and convinced that if they broke any part of the
Treaty, We shoold be released from this, as welt
aa every other article of it, he thotight the
right was not rellnqoisfaed when it couM be of
asrpOMible use.
He gentleman np yesterday [Mr. Pkebtoit]
a*fd| it wai contended that sequestration mi^t
yet be oaed in thoe of war ; but that gentleman
entirely misunderstood the argmnent. Nobody
contended that war in itself wonld jtistifr seques-
tration after having provided aninst it by Treaty:
it was a breach in the Treatr by that nation, and
that only, which would justify it. We might de-
dare war with Qreat Britain without any pre-
tence of a breach in the Treaty. For instance,
Ve m^hl do it on account of the West India
trade. In this case, we should not be at liberty to
(eqnestrate their debts ; but, suppose they should
lenise to ddiver up the Western posts, would ani
body doubt onr being as moch at liberty from al
die obligations enjoined by the Treatj, as if it hai
never been made. Every article in a Tieati
was snppoaed to be made with a view to eaci
otiier, and of course when one was broken, the
whole mnst Ikll tt^ther. He read a passage
ima Vcctlel to support his doctrine. Mr. 3. ob-
sOrved, that if his ideas were correct on that tub-
jtfetjie thought we had nothing to Ite ; for, if
die British shonM AidifUly cAxerte all the parts
Of the present Treaty, it coaid not he posslbre for
A erer to want to exercise the ri|dit of seqnestra-
fl«n ; and, If they did not, m stiH had the risfat
■IfoUy as if Ae Treaty liad not been mafc. He
dtottld pioeeeA vo futber itt daetMslitg tile arti*
cles of the Treaty, they had been already very
fully examined bf other gentlemen ; much more
so than in bis opinion was proper ; for, if it was
be admitted toat we had a right to look at the
?rits of a Treaty, still there could be no pro-
iety in going into it in detail; and nothing, in
i opinion, could justify the friends of the Treaty
lui' adopting: this mode of discussing the subject,
except a wish to justify it against the slander of
its enemies. If, mdeed, we had been made by
the Constitution a part of the Treatv-making
power, it might have been different, tint now,
whatever we had to do with Treaties, it could
be this. He said that House had be«n a lon^
time engaged in discussing an important Coosti-
tutional question, which arose on a motion lo call
on the Prebident for certain papers. This mo-
tion was carried, the papers requested, and were
refused by the FHEeioEwT. The answer of the
PHGBiDRHTwas afterwards taken Up by the House,
and a resolution passed by them declaratory of
ibeir rights relative to Treaties. However he
might think the House had done wrong in enter-
ing into those resolutions, it would be arrogance
n him to undertake to convince any gentleman
f his error, who had formed an opinion on that
sobject. He should not, therefore, attempt it;
but he would venture to say, that there was not a
majority of the House who had formed an opinr
ion that the national faith bad not yet been
pledged.
He said, both the resolutionx passed by the Honse
were expressed in general terms and, in the debate,
two diflerent grounds Were taken, directly oppo-
site in their nature, both leading, however, to the
same conclusion, which was, that the House of
Representatives nad some degree of discretioa on
the merits of a Treaty, but towhst degree, is a
matter not determined by either of (hose refla-
tions. One grolind of argument was, that whei^
ever a Treaty interfered With objects of legida-
tion, it was not binding until it received Legisla-
tive sanction. He said it was obviotu, that who-
ever voted for those resolutions on this gronnd,
would consider the national faith as not yet
pledged; for, if the contract was not complete,
the national faith, it must be admitted, was not
pledged. The other groimd was, allowing the
contract comfrlete^ and the national faith [dedged,
yet the Constitution, by giving them the power
of making appropriations, or refusing to make
thein, had neoessarily given them a check nDon
it This cbecL it was contended, the House iad
over the otheVbranches of Qovernment, not onljr
as to Treaties, but eiisiing laws also, and obvi-
ously presupposed the Treaty to be complete, and
the national fhitfa pledged ; fbr it woou be idle
and ridiculous to talk aSout checking a thing by
withholding approprSatlons that did not exist, or
which was incomplete; nor could there bs any
use for this bout^ doctrine of cheeks, provided
that Honse was really a part of the Treaty-
making power. Hesaio, wfaateVin<iedtftOstcle«^
ly the gronnd Which many gentlemen we&t upon
waa, that, in the ctnirse of Ac former debkte, it
was tngm, that, in ■ rery extiaordinaiy isue, the
D,9,t,z.(fbyGOOgle
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
1370
Extattion of Brituh Treaty.
HoOBC would be justified in doing almost any
thing 1o defeat its operatiou. and oi coarse, they
must bare s right to look into its tuerita, so far as
to see whether the present was not one of (hose
extnordioary cases. Whoever voted for those
resolutions on this ground, must hare done it
with a view of the national faith being pledged.
How many gentlemen Toted for them on the one.
and bow many on the other groand, was out of
his power to determine; but he had reason to be-
lieve, most of the gentlemen in faror of the reso-
lutions, adopted the last. He believed, if gentle-
men would call lo mind the principal arguments
in support of the first ground, they would be con-
vineeiT that it most have been tbc latter on which
tltey founded their opinions. He knew it had
been said, that the Treaty-makinff power was,
its nature, Mbordinat« to the L^slaii
therefore a Treaty could not bind the Legisla-
tare.
But, could not the Traa^-fnaking power bind
the nation as a body politic? and, if the nation
was bound, must not the HiegisUtore be also
boaod 1 Were they to be considered so far inde-
pendent of the nation, as to be free from a eon-
ttaot, vhile the nation was bound f Re said the
Treaty-makiBg power oould pledge die national
faith, snd the Legiriatore wae bcmnd to regard
tbeir f«tb ao pledged in all their Legisbtiv« acts.
He was aware it nad also been said, that there
was an iMefferenee between the two pewen, and
as ibe Treaty pevn was gfeatnlj the epeeific
' — VCougrcHnaBtfarm^eaeapticHi
Treaty power.
wantbyoall-
geneially, d
pvweia givM
to the TreMT .
lees to nndepitandwhat gentlwn
ing the Mwen given t* Congrew meiflo; they
uMeared lo UmieqaaUyaMieial win the Mhers.
TSk pomr of fimung Tieatiea was gires veae-
ratty M the Prmidiht, with the advise trf Ae
Bo— to. The Lcgisbti** powur was as leBeraUy
- gmn to CSongrew ; and how nnt powers given
" jT, dimetty difliMent in their BaMras,e(iald
iianiotbeoth«r,WMiMMofhis
^ I the power of fbrming Trea-
ttes of a pvtieular Uad be«i ^vea to ConpesaT
PoF insMnce, hail the Cktnstitation expreaely given
Cmgresa the power <rf forming Treaties, regula-
ting eomnorce, there wovld be some raomio wy,
that this speciflQ powe* most form >■ exeepti<m
to the genery power, girea to the Pmbibbnt,
wilhtheadvieeW theSeoate. No such thing, hmr-
ev«r, w«a fonod in d»e Constitution, or even pre-
tended to be contained in it. He had thns far
raraed their attentioa to the arguments on that
suh^t, that gendemea might fom dittiact ideas
as to 4M iW gtoatd of dieir opinicHis, and he he-
Ueved then WM BM a Mwrity of the Hoose who
had, or would feraa an epinioit, that the eeotaet
was iacompleM, aad the (hith of the nation not
iMMd, Ae laat resolutioB, tbaogh extroB
wMgwowi. apf red in a omk ueasum !• n
q«ieh the first ground. He abafriU say. uetf
siwtliig ihi iiisiiliiH [iiiiiil 111 ihii IT ri.llii'
... ..._._ >_i.u_ — ions oa the Treaty, '
majoritv of the House. He would (hen appeal
fo gentlemen, and he wixhed them to put the
question solemnly to themselves, whether the
present was one of those extreme cases which
wouldwarrant them prostrating thenaiionalfaithT
He did not believe there were many gentlemen
tbat Committee who would say it was. Even
the gentleman from Penniytvania [Mr. Qaui^-
tin] after enumerating all the bad things in the
Treaty, and some of the good ones, struck a ba-
lance, and broueht out the Western posts a cleat
saving in our favor. Suppose, after ail, he was
wrong as to the sense of ine House, and that the
national fiiiih was noi so pledged? Suppose that,
in consequence of the new li^t shed upon oiu
political system the present session, we have, for
the first lime, discovered the truth, and dial this
House is really a part of the Treaty-making pow-
er? In that ease, what did genuine magnanimity
and the honor of the nation require of them? Not,
he presumed, to make use of their new discovery
to ensnare the honor of the PRBaiDEHT and Sen-
ate, as well as disgrace the Government. It would
ratner dictate to them to say to the PRBeiDEirr
and Senate, that in our opinion, you have hitherto
misconstrued the Constitution m supposins you
had the sole power of mt^iuK Treaties ; but as
you have so understood the Constitntion, and u
the nations with whom you have contracted have
been led to UMteratand the subject in the same
manner, and bom the terms uaea in the Coastini-
1, you are at least excnsable from blame ii
guage of the Journal, if they now, under all cir-
cumptanees, passed tne resolution on that table,
having already entered on the Journals a resola*
tioB de«laiatory of their poweis relative to Trea-
ties.
Mr. 8. said, he would suppose, for the sake of
argument, that they had not only a power to p^
lieipeie in makiog Treaties, but that all sovereiga
power resided in them. He bettered, this was as
much OS any eentiemaa would contend for ; and
suppose the Prhsiobkt, with the advice of the
Beiiate, bad received their power ft'om that House,
in the room of having it from the people by their
Constitution^ in the same general tenns in which
itvros now giveUiTrhat, in that ease, would be their
dtrtr? He eouceiTed, even in t&at view of the
■ubiect, tboueb the PREatnEnT and.Senate acted
unotT the House as mere ministers, yet, while
their power was so general and tmlimited, and us
it could not be pretended that they had departed
from that power, the House would be bound in
honor to radfy what dkey had done. Mr. B. said,
it was a principle in the Law of Nations, that a
Btrvereiga could not reiVise with honor to nttfr
■ Treaty, concluded upon by a Hfnister with ftau
Ewer, nnlesss he coiud show that his HluiiteT
d deviated from his iustroetions.
To prove this posidon, he read some passages
from Viattd. It had tteen said, that the British
had suiae spmStiODs tm Anericm ph>perty, wuicu
,db,Google
HISTOBY OF CONORES8.
Apu^ 1796.]
EaSttvtvm <tf Brititk TVaoty.
the ezecQtion of the Treaty ; but thai this had
been done by tha direction of the Briti«b Court
wtu not pretended, or that apfdicatioa had been
made for redress without effect, was not said. It
was not in the power of the British Oovernment,
perhaps, effectuall)' to prevent injuries being done
to our vessels; but, il they did not, on applica-
tion, mak^ due compeosatioD, he would be among
the first to compel tneoi to do it He did not be-
lieve, in tbe present siluatioa of that business,
however, il would form any just excuse for a re-
fusal to carrf the Treaty into effect. The same
might be said with respect to iheii impressing
AmeiicBD seamen, except, indeed^ where tbev
claim them to be subjects of that nation ; and, with
lespect to this description of seamen, should there
oltimately be a misunderstanding beffteen the
two nations, the subject is open to further negoti
ation. The gentlemui from Pennsylvania [Mi
Oallatin] had discovered much sensibility rela
dve lo national honor. He professed to feel a
sensibly for the honor of his country, ss that, o
any otbei gentleman ; and, as he wished not t
aee it tarnished, he was desirous tbe Treaty should
be carried into effect We are, said he, an infant
nation, just rising into the view of other m ''
and an unblemished character was of the firs .
sequence to us. He hoped they never should
lose sight of it,and though he thought the interest
andhappinessof our citizens were luce wise objects
of very great magnitude, yet he was so thoroughly
convinced that the path he had marked out was
die only sure way of supporting their honor, that
he thought he miebt safely trust the present de-
cision, on the sinEle question, whethej that gen-
tleman's plan, or his, wonid best secure ill He
had already stated his plan. It was to bury in
oblivion all past differences, by adopting the Trea-
ty, and with respect to present or future differ-
ences he would let the British nation know, that
we will be firm and independent. What was the
gentleman's plan 1
He would, at any rate, break the Treaty. This
was a singular way of preserving national honor.
He thought it more like prostrating, than support-
ing it. What would (be gentleman do aflerwardsl
He says he would do nothing. He would not go
to war, nor would he do anything which would
provoke them to war. He would sit down con-
tented, without having possession of the Western
posts, or any redress for the spoliations on Ameri-
can vessels. This^ to him, was also a very singu-
lar way of supporting national honor. Their two
plant were, to be surb totally different. The plan
which he would chalk out was, to do justly and
.fairly as to the past, and. in future, assume a bold
and manly tone, while that gentleman's plan was
to be unjust and unfair, as to the past, and to be
pusillanimous in future.
For himself, he would say that, if he really
thought they had a ConslituUonal right to reject
let the British know that America, was
liifled with, by having, is the room pf redresa Ibr .
the grossest injuries, the most palpable impon-
tioDs upon their Minister. Ifthatgentlemanwoold
do no more on the subject than to defeat the Trea-
ty, he confessed he was one who would. He
would never sit down contented withoat redrea*
for tbe injuries done to our commerce, and withoat
possession of the posts. He saitL he thought that
^ntleman had mistaken national will foiDational
honor, or rather, the will of one branch of the Go-
vernment. Indeed, he said, it would not be said
to be the will of even one Ivanch of tbe Govent-
ment) it was the will of about one^half of one
branch only.
He said, it must at least be admitted, that the
true honor of the nation, was as well sup^Knted bf
giving effect to the Treaty, as by rejecting of it ;
and, as lo its comporting with their nest intRnt,
Se a question, if
gained by it than the Wf
admitted to be gained o
posts, which were
and above any loses
we might sustain by tbe Treaty, stiUj it v
object of great importance to the Umted States.
There was no one class of citizens who woald be
in a worse situation, after adopting the Treaty,
than they were now, and many of thetn would be
in a much better one. Tbe merchants certainly
know their own interest, and their universal voice
in its favor, was a sure proi^of iisbemg favorable
totbem. Tnemechanies and farmers, if Boiinabet-
tersilnatiDnbytbeTreaty.wouldcertaiolynotbein
a worse. It was true, they would all have lo unite
in tbe payment of debts for some of (heir fellow^
citizens ; bat it was just they should be pai^ and
what we shall receive from the British for the ior-
juries done our commerce, would much more than
overbalance what we should have to pay.
He thought he had fully shown^ that our honra
and interest both united in requirmg them to ef-
fectuate the Treaty ; and bad done this, witlioai
in theleast catling mto view the fatal consequence*
which will follow a rejection of it ) or in the least
attending to the happiness of the citizens.
But, said he, were we to add to all this, the
scenes of misery and distress which would be the
consequences of the rejection, we should be de-
terred from taking so rash a step ; and were such
scenes the effect of a mere dreaming conjectnreJ
No; they were conseqneuces which must foUtrw;
among which might be comprised the horrors of a
war, on tbe one hand, with Britain, and on (be
other, with the savages ; while internal commo-
tions would, probably, be more dreadful than
both.
He said, he did not believe Great Britain would
immediately make war on us — no; wemnsiaiake
war on them. Turn to your citizens, said he, and
seethe prejudices whichexist among (hem uainst
the British — nay, even in this House, you find it
asserted to be a virtue to hate that people. It wac
a notorious fact, that there was a high dislike
amongst almost all classes of Amerieaas aniiM
the English, and when th& causes of this dislike
were examined, it was not to be wondered at, nor
coald it be blamed. It was, however, in his opin-
ion, unibrluaate that it diould b« so. The seeds
ol ijkis hatred w«r« sown in iUm»st erary Amari-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRBSa.
Extcution of Briiith IVtatj/.
[H.orR.
can brmit in the late war, and they had aince
brought forth a plentiiiil increase.
At the close of the war, the British en|^a^
a w^ with another nation, who had aasute_ ._
in obutining out iode^udence, aod who hare been
themselTes engaged in « cause of liberty. Tbis
circumstaoce rekindled the flames of ha (red against
that QoTemmeDt, which, owing to' rarious i
tating circumstances, was now blaziiw in .
force tbroughoot the United States, and even
that House. Cootd it, then, be expected that
should sit down contented, if the Treatj was
carried into effect 7 Indeed, the same spirit which
had oppmed the Treaty, aod which would lead to
its reieetion, would infallibly lead us to war ; ooi
coula he' believe the geatte man from Feimsylra-
nia had told ns the whole of his plan. He should
expect, very soon, to hear him aorocating se<i
tration, or suspension of iotercourse, or some other
measure which would lead directly to war ; and
could we, said Mr. S., after a contest of a year or
two with the British nation, treat wi^h herl the
pRBBinsHT aud Senate cannot treat with them, if
once the present Treaty was defeated; and he
would beg leave to say, that we never could stop,
until we had either humbled the nation, so aUior-
rent to our feelings, or until we were bumblal
indeed. And we should not go into the war, united
heart and hand ; there was one end of the Union,
he knew, would drag heavily into the war. There
were two branches oT the OoTemment, and a con-
siderable proportion of that House, indeed, who
had been struggling to support their neutrality
and peace.
Mr. S. concluded, by saving — if we cany the
Treaty into effect, we shall aeeore a ctmtinnaiion
of our unexampled prosperity, peace, and bappi-
nest; but, if we reject i^ the avenues to national
misery will be opened innumerable.
Mr. Dayton (the'Speaker) declared that he did
by no means intend to follow the gentlemen who
had conceived it advisable to enter into a discus-
To thoM, he said, who regarded this second
Treaty with Qraat Britain wiui disagreeable aen-
»sations — to thoee who believed that it did not
contain in it such terma as the United States had
reason to expect, and even a right to demand — to
all those whose indignation hwl been excited at
lh« onwarrantaUe outrages committed by that
nation upon the r^ti of our neutral Powers, who
had aeen their high-banded acts with astonish-
n»nt,aiid the whole conduct of their adnrinistiat ion
towards thia country with abhorrence— to thoae
whose attachment for the French, nobly sirug-
dinc for their liberties, was sincere, and who ar-
dently wished that thei r rt
:ir revolution might tc
in the establish meat of a good and stable Govern-
nent] — to all of (his descriptioii, he could, with
proprietr, address himself and say, that be har-
moDized with them in opinion, and that his feel-
ings woe in perfect unison with their*. But if,
be Mid, there shonld ba found in that assembly
one laember, whose affection fw any other nation
«n*eded (hat which hecitortaiBod for this, whose
Representative he was — if there could even be
found a single man whose hatred to any other
country was greater than his love for America—
him, he should consider as his enemy, hostile to
the interests of the ]>eople who sent him there,
rty unqualified to' iu^ge rightly of their c
cerns, and a betrayer of tl ' ' ' ' '
But, Mr. E
and a betrsver of the trust reposed in him.
. dr. D. said, ne could not believe it possible,
that there were any such amongst them, and he '
was convinced that everyone muiit seeandfeel
the necessity of divesting himself of all his hatred,
all his prejudices, and even all attachments that
were in the least degree inconsistent with an im-
biasaed deliberation and decision. The good and
the prosperitv of the people of the United States
ought to be the primary object. It was that alone
which their Representatives were delegated and
commissioned more immediately to promote, and
who would deny that it was intimately connected
with, and involved in the vote they weie about
to give 7
That the defects of this instrument of compact
with Britain greatly exceeded its merits, was a
truth which was strongly impressed upon his
mind, long before he had hearo the reasoning of
the gentleman from Virginia, fMr. Maoiboh,]
who had opened the debate. Although that gen-
tleman had sketched its deformities in strong.
colors, and had in some instances, perhaps, exagge-
rated them ; yet, Mr. D. said, he shoulu not have
contested the justice of the picture he had exhi-
bited, if he had, at the same time, presented to
their view, in true and faithful coloriog, the other
side of it also. Yet, this was surely necessary in.
order to enable them to form a right judgment
That member had declared that the House were,
now called upon to approve the Treaty, but Mr.
D. was far from believmg such a declaration war-
ranted by the language or nature of the proposi-
tions on the table, to which all might assent, with-
out pledging themselves to be the approvers of the
instrument itself.
So firmly convinced was he of this, that, if he
could subscribe to the truth and force of every
objection that had been urged by that gentleman,
he should, nevertheless, by no means conclude
with him, that the House ought to withhold the
appropriations, but, on the contrary, they ought to
Eant them. This would be his course of conduct,
cause difficulties and inconveniences alone pre-
sented themselves to their view and choice, and-
he thought be should act unfaithfully, if he en-
deavored to ahuQ those on the one side ooly, with-
out regarding the wide scene of dangers into which
he might plunge his country on the other. What ,
would be thoi^i of that man, who, because the
road he was traveling proved to be an uneven
and rough one, should considerately betake him-
self to an opposite path without ez[^orin^ the pre-
cipice that awaitea him there 1 la the udividuid.
it would be deemed an evidence of madness, and
such heedless conduct in that House could not
esca[>e the imputation of blindness. Uuder im-
pressions of this sort, a« to the importance of the
rote he was about to give, he conceived himself
bound to extend hi* riaws beyond the mere in-
.dbyGoogle
X975
HISTORY OF CONGHEBR.
H.orR.]
Extcution of Briiuh Treaii/.
[Antl^ 1796.
trinaic merits of the Treaty, nod to esliiDate the
evils which must flow from a rejection of it.
What, he aeked, were these 1 Would a foreign
WSr, and the dissolutioD of the Oovernment be the
certBJD fruits of a rejection, as had been represent-
ei hy some geoilemen whose opinions he respect-
ed? These would certainly be amonsst the most
dreadful calamities which coald befatl a country,
and, especially, one made up of Confederacies like
this; and although he did not think themproln-
ble, yet, they rottst be admitted to be possible, and
as such, justify those who allow them to influence
their minds. But he appealed to those gentlemen
who seemed to treat such apprehensions as per-
fectly chimerical, whether there might not be
others, which, though less alarming than a fo-
Teigin war and dissolution of the Union, would yet
exceed — nay, very far exceed, those which are to
follow the operation of the Treaty. The first
fruit of a rejection would be, Mr. D. said, a claim
from the merchants who had suffered by spolia-
tions, to be fully indemnified from'the Treasurv.
He called upon the tnembeiB who, like himself,
tvpTosented agricultural States; and he called,
also, upon those who represented the landed and
ngricnltural interests in the commeTcial States, to
declare, whether they were prepared to burden
their consiiluents with s tax of fire mi]li(»n of
dollars to be thus applied 1
He did not fear tbat he ahould be chsi^d, aa
others had been, with sonnding a fklse alarm. A
propositioD to that efteet had already been laid
on the tahlfc and, trhat was not a little siMular,
itWBsfbattaed OD a presumption that the Treaty
ma to be annulled Sy a TOte of the House, and
wai to derin itt support from that very eimnn-
■Mnee. Hr. D. thou^t it his duty to remind
mndemen of the doctrine uttered hy the member
nom New York, [Mr. LiviiraBTON,] whett he
mored it, as well as of the extent of the prinei|rie
eontained in it. It ta m estabtished principle,
■aid the mover, that protection is eqnaRy due to
Ae person and property of all citrwni, and ti»t
where the Qoverament fails to protect, it is bound
to indemnify for all the losses that may be sus-
tained by every iodividuat in consequence of such
Aiture. They were, therefore, Mr. D. said, if
tiiey rejected the Treaty, to be iniDediBtely call-
ed upon to recognise a prtnciple which would not
only pledge them to tax their fellow-citizens for
the five millions, at which the British spoliations
mre estimated, bat, idso, to make compensation
tot every depredation that might hereafter be
made upKm tneir trade ; nay, more, for every in-
jury that any American ntuen might mS«t
throu^ want of protection. He was aware that
be might be told ;bat the resolntion embraced
only- merchants iriio had sufTend, but he contend-
«dlhat the prineipte, when established, mast ex-
tend to all i for he diallei^ed any gentieman to
Aov what better title they who inhabited the
flnntier next the sea, had to claim QorNnmenial
E)tectlon and indemnifieMioB, than they who in-
bitedaf^raniicrontheluKl sidel U; thetefere,
diey iren detenniiied m campemate from the
Treamry the BMschant tar hU phudend ea^o,
they were equally bound to pay the fhmlier settler
for his stolen borse; and there would be no bonnda
to such clainiB, or means to satisfy them.
Yet, this very thing they would be called upon
to do the next moment after tbey voted not to
giant the necessary appropriations for carrying
the British Treaty into effect. But the evils flow-
ing from a rejection would not end here. All
kinds of properly lowered in value ; ship building
at a stand ; commerce and navigation insecare
and harassed: the froils of the earth, the produce
of the farmer's toil, reduced one-third in price,
and almost without a market; public and private
credit tottering; these, all these, would swell the
disastrous catalogue. The effects of a rejeciioD
would operate like a subtle poison, which, though
immediately ap{jied to only one part, would quick-
ly insinuate itself into the system, and affect the
whole mass. Although, in this instance, the fitat
shock would fall on commerce, yet it woald,
through the means of this powerful condaelor, be
communicated, with an electrical quiekmess, to
the dearest and best interests of this country. It
was pmsible, Mr. D. said, that there might be one
exception — manufaeturea might not he immedi-
ately and generally injured ; but if tboy ^onU
Sonrish, it would be upon the rnins of eommtne,
the decay of navigation and ship bnilding, the
poverty of ihe planter and farmer, nul the wreck
of public faith and privaM credit. Another evil
certainly flowing from a rejection, woold be, hm
said, the loss of the Indian trade, whjeh bad bma
slated by two gentlemen fhna New Yesk, asd
one from Bonth Carolina, who appeared to b*
well aoqnainted with the svbjeet] as extrcnaly
profitable and importaat.
An Indian war might, aba, ha iialtisdalud Wfom
as iiMvitBble^ and the ooBseqoiBt espenditBia of
foorteen hundred thotMand dollHs anaoatty ,- bM
in oarryteg die Treaty into afibtl, aad aossi aang
the poet^ with the troop*, tbey abowd be free
fromanydangerofa serious tnpnrv with themv*-
ns, and save the OMMi of that muMf, tagoiher with
the lives of many very valuable citixeos. Theae
posts, he Mid, could aloite inave a pamuMnt
peace with the savages, or, at leaeC, iroM tnMv
this country to repress hostility with Utile tranbla
or expense, if ever itaiioaldanm tfareaicM. Their
imponanee had, it was tme, neen qoestkned by
one or two geadenwn, bnt it bad been vin^eate^
and thn had been aaswcted by a gendenuB from
Massacnotetta, [Mr. Ahbs,] m a snatn of eto-
![U«nee nevar exceeded in that Hoaaa, which at-
teud every one who heatd, and, ha hetMaad,
had oonTtneed most of theae who listenad Mhim.
It had been asked what wwild ha the eoadwat
of Britain, when they shaoM lean that the Hti«B«
of Representativei Md refased to wmkm appronn-
Btions for the Treaty. Hewaadiipwedtothiak
that they woaM not ooaaider it a eaMa, ar wiato
itappeteiL Ibrwu. ffitving in their Mmiti ihe
for trade, the Wastam poMa, aad abaM Om tail-
li(a»rfd«Uan,orwhiehtheyhad dBspeilMl ^
people of these Atatat) they might pishahli sit
tkrtni eematedwMi! the Moilatfaar had atMs^
aAv *ia iTTiriaBBiiT had,^ im owb mtn, dia-
;dbvG00gle
HKrrOBT OP CONGRESS.
Ejxeution 6f Britiah TrtcOy.
[H. opR.
they bad entered into to
ompensation. But what,
in this slate of thio;^, vould restrain tbeit pirati-
cal CTQisers in the We^t Indies ? They, whether
hoping thata war would be thp consequence of an-
nulling the Treaty, or that, as the two nations
were no iong^er nnder that tie, they might again
rob with impunity ; and would probably seize on
American vessels whererer they coatd meet them,
and carry ihem into those porta in which corrupt
Jud^s stood ready to condemA them.
So far as this question respected a dissohilion
of the present Government, it was certainly a
rery delicate one. Important as the subject un-
der debate unquestionably was, he was free to de-
clare it to be his opinion that no decision, however
trnfavorable it might seem, could justify, or would
produce a separation of the States. He lamented
that it had been coDceived or mentioned by any
one for he should, whilst he had strength resist
such an event as the most tktal that could befall
Ua coiratry, and wonld cling to the Union as the
rock of their political salvation. But he would
not stry, nor would any one else seriously mj, that
there was no room to apprehend that a rejection
might produce suspicions, jealousies, distrusts, and
drseord between tne one part of the Union attd
the otherj and such a general fermentation In the
public mind as never before prevailed.
He could not here refrain from making a se-
rious appeal to the candor and good sense of the
Sntleman from Virginia. Having served widi
m mnnr years in public Hfe — in the Old Ctw
ffreat, under the Confederation, in the Federal
Convention, and far nearly six vears under the
present form of Government, he nad. upon raanj
and various occasions witnessed the displa)[ of his
superior talents, and the effoiis of bis patriotism,
and derived from thence a conviction that, as at
no fbrmermoment, so neither at the present, could
1m appeal to those qualities in that gentlemas In
vain. Mr. D. nquested him to tarn nia attention
tft the laat article of the British Treaty, and par-
ticularly that part of it which is In the words fol-
lowing, viz :
fled
This Trraft, when the niae ihall have been tafi-
"bj Bia M^esW and bv the Piwiduit of the United
tea, by and w^ the aavice and consent of tiaeii Se-
nate, and the relpective ratiAcetioiu mntnsll^ ei-
dkaiiEed, dull be ^ding and obhgatorr on H> Ma-
jesty and on the nid States, and sfaaU be by Omn re-
neetlrcly executed and obeeived whfa pitnctadity and
t&e BMal dneera legaid to good Ailh,'' tco.
He called upon the gentleman from Virginia to
show in what line or word of it the pHMiuBlfT
had exceeded bis anthority, or, if that was not
Jcetendcd, and he believed it was not by any one,
e Wished that gentleman to reflet for h moment
how it was possible to refuse appropriations, and
yet preserve inviolate the faith of this country, so
solemnlv t4edged in that article.
Could that member conceire a ifiore embarraas-
iag situation than that in which the measures
eoateinplated hy hiui would place tlie first magl*-
ttate or tliis eouDtry 1 H« bad said, hi his speech,
that if this Treaty wu rejected the PKaaiDsirr
could, and doubtless would, commence the nego-
anew with Great Britain in order lo ob-
tain alterations and modifications of the objection-
able parts, but an attentive perusal of the article
which had been quoted, must convince him and
everyotherpersonlhatlhe Phesident must consid-
er the Treaty as valid and binding, even though
the appropriations were refused, and consequent-
ly instead of making a new compact, must, if he
preserved that character for firmness and consist-
ency which he had ever supported, protest a^inst
the Usurpation of power on the part of the House
of Representatives.
But let it be supposed for a moment that the
Prebidbnt could condescend to send out another
Envoy uponsuchau errand; had the gentleman re-
volved in his mind what language must accom-
pany the mission? The new agent must intro-
duce himself to the Court of London by declar-
that he came to frame a new Treaty instead
:he one which though lateiy made by the two
branches of Government wjio were then conceiv-
ed to be the constituted authorities, had been more
lately broken hy the third branch. That the Pre-
aiDCRT had believed the approbation of the 8e-
late followed by his own ratification to he Mly
lufficient to render the compact valid and bind-
ing, but that the House of Representatives had
:n a new view and sense of his and their pow-
^ had conceived their concurrence necessary to
j;ive it binding force, htid convinced him that his
construction of the Constitution bad been errone-
ous, and had Insisted upon his sending this extra-
ordinary Envoy to practise upon the new l^asoas
they had taught him.
Were it possible for a man acquainted as the
gentletoan from Virginia is, with the temper and
character of Courts, to conceive that this tnassen^-
ger, though clothed with diplomatic sanction,
could be otherwise received and treated than with
contempt 7 Would he not be told to go back to
his countrymen, and desire them lo settle among
themselves where they had deposited this power
of Treaty making? Would he not be told that
if it resided in the President with the advice
and consent of the Senate, as they had been taught
to believe, then there was one already formed
which the British Oovemment were ready, and
the United States bound to fulfil, but that if the
House of Representatives were in fliture to partici-
OTite in this power, he must, if he returned to Great
Britain, bringnoionly his own credentials from the
Prbbcdeht, but also authenticated copies of the
fawers from the House to the Prebideiit
imselfT
The member from PennaylvaniiL [Mr. Galla- .
tin] had assened there was as weiffhty a responsi-
bility on the one side as on the other. This, Mr.
D. said, he altogether denied. All mast admit
that the Pbesioekt and Senate would at least
share it with those member* who riioold vote tat
carrying the Treaty into eS'ect, and they would
hare to Justify them, in addition to the important
objeete of die settlement of difference^ tke com-
pensation fbr losses, die possession ot the posts,
Ac, the idea of [digfated faidi. But I&ey who
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGBESS.
H.orR.]
Exeeutim of SritUh Treaty.
[Anu^l7S&
should Toie ainiiut the neccnary DrOTuioa in tlial
House, would [hereby take u^onUiemselTesftloDe
all the coDteqaeDces of the rejection. Could they
le*D for support upon eTen the ten dineDtiog Se-
Diton'? No! For the iDBtniment when imdeT
eoDsideratioD of the Senate was aa iuchoaie act.
No faith was then pledged, it* merits alone were
the subject of conBidtfration, and it might then
hare been rejected without wounding in the least
degree the national honor. Could they lean upon
those citizens, numerous,^ they were, who early
expressed disapprobation 1 No ! For this was
.generally done to arrest or to prereni ratification,
uid now since it was ratified, tlie oppocition of far
the greater part of this description was withdrawn
and the oames of very inany of them were sign-
ed to the numerous petitions laying upon the ta-
ble, praying that the Treaty might be carried
into effect. They were, iu short, about to take
upon themselves a weightier responsibility than
lud erer before been erconntered by any majori-
ty since the formation of the GoTcrnmenL Nor
would they free the mselres from this responsibili-
ty if they should first refuse and afterwards re-
solve to appropriate. To reject the apfjropriatioD
by a Tote, though it were to continue only
for a moment, would be to infiict such a deadly
wound upon the Constitution and honor of this
country, as no subsequent vote or conduct could
erer heal — they were considerations far too sacred
thus to be sported with, and he earnestly en-
treated gentlemen to consider well the importance
of the first step they were about to take, which if
wrong could never effectually be trodden back.
Mr. D. concluded with observing that, although
he was not pleased with many parts of the Trea-
ty— althougn he had never felt any strong predi-
lection for an iniimaie conneiioD with Britain —
although he had never seen their eneronchmeats
on the rights, nor their depredations upon the pro-
perly of American citizens withanindulgenleye,
or in the temper of tame submission, and although
he had long ceased to entertain any respect lor the
negotiator, vet he should vote for the resolution,
because he loved his country, and to that love,
would sacrifice every tesentment, every prejudice,
creiy personal consideration. He should vole to
carry the Treaty into effect with good faith, be-
cause he sinuerety believed that Uie interests of
his fellow-citizens would be much more promoted
by that, than by [he opposite line of conducL
He bad saidj"witb. good faith," and he hoped
in thus repeating the expression he should not
jive offence to the Committee, nor to the member
from Pennsylvania, at whose instance those words
were stricken out of the resolution. They were
however, words of solemn import, and although
that member declared he did not understand them,
yet they were well underitood by the people of
the United Statess They weie not ignorant of
thesolemn obligations thereby imposed upon thero,
and their Representatives. They knew that their
fcitb when pledged could never be broken, with-
out injuring their interests. They -would judge
when it was fairly pledged. They would
know when it was wantonly violated, and they
would detanaine whether they would penait a
violation to be made with impunity.
Hr. Cbhibtie said, the first time he raad the
Treaty he believed it to be a bad bargain ; he eoa-
tinueo to think so, though he didnot think it preg-
nant with all the evils which had been ascrib^
., carried into effect, something like tlu
tale of "Rawhead and Bloodybones," to frighten
children. But, though he thought the Treaty a
bad one, his constiiuents were desirous it should
be carried into effect, and he found himself bound
to lay aside his own opinion, and actaccording to
their wilL He should therefore vote for carrying
it into effecL
The (juestion was then put on the lesolntioii,
which is in substance as TmIows :
Retolved, That it is expedient to nuke the ne-
cessary appropriations for carrying the Treaty
with Great Briti^n into effect.
The House divided, forty-nine for the resolati<Mi,
forty-nine against it
It remained for the Chairman, Mr. Mobler-
BEBO to decide.
He said, he did not fed satisfied with the reso-
lution as it now stood ; he should, however, vote
for it, that it might go to the House and there be
modified.
The resolution was consequently agreed to,and
reported to the House.
[The following statement will show the true
sanse of the House as to the ejtpedieocy of car-
rying the British Treaty into effect :
Forty-nine voted for this expediency.
Forty-nine against it.
The Chairman, Mr. MnBLEKBBKO, to give an
opportunity further to consider the ^esalatioI^
voted for it.
Mr.pATTON from Delaware was. ill. and was ne-
cessarily absent. It is, however, well understood,
tiiat he is opposed to the Treat?.
Mr. Tarmuh was accldentsUy absent. He is
no friend to the Treaty.
Messrs. Fbebuan, Sbebbdrnk, and Van
CoRTLAHDT are absent on leave.
Mr. Ddvall has resigned] and his snceessoi haa
not yet taken his seat.
From which it is evident that there is an actu-
al majority of the House against the expediency
of cartyiog the Treaty into execution.]
When the resolution was reported to the Houa^
the question on it was called for, and the yeas and
Mr. OiLBa wished some modification to be made
in the resolution before them, or an additional one
introduced so as to express the sense of the Hoose
upon the Treaty ; he said it was observable that
several gentlemen voted for the present resolution
who thought the Treaty a bad one. He was not
prepared at present witn a proper resolution. The
reason why he th&ught some qualification neces-
sary was, Uial as a part of the Treaty was only to
continoe in effect for two years, and at the end of
that time a fresh negotiation would );ay>baUy take
place, if the sense of that House upon the Treaty
.dbyGoogle
1391
HISTOBT OF CONORBSS.
H.opR.]
ETeeuHon ef BrituA TVeatj/.
mu known to the PiBSiDBirr, it mi^t, in some
d^ree operate vith him in k renewnl of thmt put
of the Tnaty.
Mi. Jackboi* wished, as he discorered Mine of
the m«inbera of the Home were U present abaent,
and aa the jtu and am were to be taken upon
the qnection, that a call of the House shonld be
made preTions to the taking of it. He nid, he
should Tote against the Treat^.and should beaUe
to KiTe satis&ctory leasons to his constituents for
M> aoing i he, wished therefore, that on this impor'
tant decision, the name of ererr member should
appear on the list of yeas and nays. He hoped;
tDeiefore, the qnestion would be postponed for the
Mr. Maoor also wished the question to be post-
poned. He said he had doabb yet on his mind,
respecting the constmciion of the 9th article, rela-
tive to the holding of lands, and if the constmc-
tion which some gentlemen thought it would bear
^ras the true constructioa, this question would be
ofgrealer importance to the State of North Caro
lina than the Declara lion of Independence itself.
He shonld speak within bounds if he wns to say
one half of the lands in that State would be affect-
ed by that construction.
Mr. Holland and Mr. Oillebpig also express-
ed their doubts on this head.
Mr. SwAMWicE hoped the question would be put
oS till Monday ; in the mean time gentlemen
might have ao opportunity of making up their
minds on ihe subject ao a% to harmonize tc^ther.
Mr. S. Smith said, it would be imprudent and
improper to force the decision of the question at
present. He hoped it would not be insisted upon,
Mr. WiLLiAUB said, any delay in their decision
would add to the loss already sustained, by the
farmers aod merchants in the sale of agricultural
production. Fot the sake of accommodation he
would, however, consent to a poilpoaement ot the
question till to-morrow.
Mr. Tbacv hoped the question might be post-
poned, if gentlemen wished it, till to-morrow or
Monday.
Mr. HiLLHODBE hoped the question would be
postponed till Monday, when he hoped more una-
nimity would prevail in the decision.
Messrs. Bodbke, Chbibtib, and Cooper, wish-
ed [be adjournment to be till to-morrow only.
Thequestion was put and carried for to-mortow.
Mr. OiLLEBPiE then moved that a call of the
House be made for to-morrow at 12 o'clock ; which
was agreed to.
Satubdat, April 30.
A UU for continning in force an sot in the State
'land, appointing a Health Officer for the
Maryland, appointing a 1
rt ol Baltimore, was read
1 third ti
The House took up the eonsideraiion of the
amendments yesterday made in the Committee of
the Whole in the bill for the Military " ' '" '
m9)t; which.beingairreedto.it was i
be engrossed for a third reading.
ing theprsMmt war, snd ti
A&>S aba in the effioMTO
EIBCDTION or BHirWH TEBA7T. .
The House then took up the resolution Teeta>
day passed in a Cgmmittee of the Whole, for
canying into effect the Treaty lalely negotiated
with Oreat Britain ; when
Mr. Dbarbobn said, as it appeared that a ma-
jorilT of that HonK was in favor 'of carrying in-
to effect the British Treaty, notwithstanding sev-
eral of those gentlemen who had declared their
intention of voting for it, had declared they
thought it a bad Treaty, and as he w^ed to see
the opinion the House entertained of the Treaty
entered upon their Jounals, he took the liberty of
iiroponng an amendment to the resolution m the
bllowing words :
"JZcMfcaJl That, ilduragfa in Ae opfadou of diH House
die Tts*^ is highht ott^actiouable, snd may prora injn-
lions to Oe United StidM, yet, oonsidaTing sfl Ae cir>
relating ttiento, and putieolaily, that the
"-■ -a oontinne m fcree only dui-
« yesM ttMTeUter, and eon-
!■ that may be tak-
lee )rfthe vidalione
ueotnl ri^ls, in regard to oar ves-
sels and seamen, thenfbie, ftc"
Mr. CoiT hoped the yeas and nays would he
taken upon the question ; which was agreed to. .
Mr. OoouBDB hoped the House would not agree
to the resolution; he. for one, would never agree
Mr. SwANWicK hoped the amendment would be
agreed to; for whatever some gentlemen's opin-
ion might be with respect to the propriety of car-
rying Uie Treaty into effect, very few thought it
a good Treaty. Au amendment, therefore, declar-
ing the motives which actuated that House in
passing the resolution for carrying the Treaty in-
to effect was very desirable, it would induce some
gentlemen to vote for it, who would otherwise
vote Bgeinst it and it ought not to excite objee-
lion. He appealed to the recollection of gentle-
men, the arguments which had been used to en-
force the necessity of the appropriations, which
laid great stress upon the shortness of time whieh
the most objectionable part of the Treaty was to
be in force. He hoped, therefore, these arguments
would not be objeeted to in the form of a resolu-
tion.
There might, indeed, be gentlem^ who thought
the Treaty perfect in everj' part, a very paragon;
these, of course, would object to this amendment,
and wotild vote against it. It mif^ht be said this
amendment wnuld convey an indirect censure on
the other branches of Oovemment ; but he did
not think so. That the Treaty was hif;hly objec-
tionable was shown by the decision of the Com-
mittee of the Whole yesterday, when the Chair-
man, with the hope of some modifiearion taking
Slace in the' resolution, decided the vote in its
ivor. He hoped the propoeed modification would
not, therefore, be objectM to. There was another
important observation, which was the coufidenoe
expressed in the PBEanftNT'B taking meaenres to
nrevent future spoliations of property and im-
pressment of seament. Mr. B. said, if the amend-
ed byGoOglc
IA43
mawastr or comcww.
1«B4
g-OFR.]
^ BritiA Trtmly.
ulopiedi it ntigitt lw4 bpi Aoallr i
ty, which hi ' - ■ ■
k he otherwise ihould
TOW for the TWty,
«otdo.
Mr. WiLUAMfl hoped that other ^Btlenten
'Might be sUowcd to be conueteiit id (hetr rote ma
well as the gentlomBn laai up. He voted yester-
^>f in the majority for the resolution in its pre-
■ent form, and he did not wish to Tote for it in
Mijr othnr. Whjr did not gentlemen yesterday
more their modifioalion? To pass the modifi-
eadoQ to-day wmild be tmdoing what was done
yesterdajr.
Mr. HiLLBODBE said, when he prepared the re-
•olntios on the table, he thought he had done it in
Mich cenenl terms that erery gentleman might
rote for it. without expressing & seDliment c
trary to wnat he enleilained respecting the Ti
tv. The amendnieDt proposed, he thought very
ODJectionable. It appeared u if it was isteoded
to force gsnilemen to rola againai carrying the
Treaty into effect rather than vote for the Treaty.
For hu owB part, he could tiot vote for it, as it
wouM be in direotcontradictian to the ■entimeuis
which be had before expreHed. He thought can-
dor itself cotild not cxpwt gen^nen who approv-
ed of the Treaty to rote for the amendmMiL *'
was also a rule to avoid ezpreasing particnlar t
liments in reaolutioaa of this kiod. One oar
the proposition, if it was brought fotwara sepa-
rately, would be assented to generally, respectmg
the confidence placed in the Pbebidgkt, with re-
•{pect to future spoliations and impresimentK of sen-
meit. In this proposition, it was said, the Treaty
was injurious ; he did not beUere it was so. Ho be-
lieved it would be beneficial to the United States,
h would not only be agreeing to an opinion which
was contrary to the sentiments of- gentlemeik, but
it would b« passing a censure on the other bnuioh-
es of Govemmeot. Gentlemen were not reqoired
to wa.\ it was a good Treaty, and he hoped no oue
would be forced^ to say it was a but one.
[The Spbakxr informed the House that it was
then twelve o'clock, and as thev had yesterday or-
dered that there should be a call of the House to-
day at that hour, he should direct the Clerk to
make the call. It was accordingly done. -Ueasrs.
Bbint, H^npiB, and Patton were abeent The
two foimer came to the House Mon after the call,
and, on making apologies, were excused. Mr.
PA-noH was indiifKwed.J
Idr. Qnaae aaid he should vote for the resola'
' tion in its present state. Hedid so, not beeausehe
thought the Treaty a good one, but because he
beliered ike interest of the United States would
be promoted by ""V'ng the
tions, and beeaose be wKsapi
aaqimnes might arise from defeating it than from
earnring it into effect.
mt. HooBB considwed himself as called upon
to choose between two evils. He considered the
Treaty to be bad. On the other hsn<L he was ap-
prehensive that evils might aris& it it was itot
earned into effect, ont of the control of that House.
He had resolved not to V(rie tot the resolution on
the table ; but he felt unwilling to take upon him-
self the responsibility of rejeetiag the Treaty,
Senate. In deciding upon t ^ .
posed, he wished the sense of the House lo be
taken ; and if he considered that a single iMUvi-
dual would be influenced no voie against the mbo-
lutioD who would otherwise have voted for O, he
should wish ihem to be seuanled. It was hu
opinion the Treaty was a bad one, and he believ-
ed that the Treaty mi^ht go into eOect by a ci
siderable majority, as it would tend to leseen the
iriiiation which l»o been raised respecting iL
If a joajoiity of the House thought the Treaty
a bad one, they had a ri^ht to uy so, and let the
responsibility rest where it ought to resL
Mi.SiTORBAVBSsaid, the gentleman who intro-
duced this resolution said he did it with a view to
accommodation. If so, the movet and soppt^ters
of it would not wish to Lay geniiemen undn m
obiigaltou of doing what was disagreeable to them.
Those gentlemen were willing, it seamed, to vote
for a resoLutioo for carrying the Treaty into rf-
fect, hut wished at ihe same time to divest ihem-
selves of responsibility. Mr. S. said he bad no
objection to their expressing their own opinions;
they were not his. Therefore, if a fair repcesent-
ation of opinion was to be given, the two propo-
siiions should be separated. With respect to that
part of the resolution expressing hopes in fumre
DegotiatioD, he bad no objection, but to the other
he could not agree. On this subject he was so
decided, that he avowed he would rather lose the
Treaty than that the sentiments ia the amend-
ment should go out as his act He hoped gentle-
men would copseni to let them vote as they
thought right. Let ^ntlemen throw their ideas
into a distinct proposiliou, the responsibility would
then be rightly placed; their constituents would
be informed of their opinions, the honor of the na-
tion would be saved, and the divisions which had
diBtracted their country would be healed.
Mr. Deabborh said, in offering the amendmem
which be had proposed, he had no inteoEion of tak-
ing any thing like an unfair advantage, or of pro-
ducing what might be thought uncandid or un-
fair. His own sentimeifts retalive to the Treaty
were such as would prevent his consenting to do
any thing to carry it into effect, unless with such
a provision as he bad brought forward. It ap-
peared to him of such a nature, that he i ~
be nothing improper in taking the opinion ol the
House reUtive to the tUag itself. Iiit might be
presumed that there were but few gentlemen in
that House who thought the Treaty a good one,
he, indeed, thought there wtn none of nmt oiun-
ion^ until then, though some gaulemea bad praia-
ed It in their speeches, but which he had roereiy
considered as adding weight to their ar^iDeats,
he believed soeh an amendment was desirable.
As be, therefore, took it for granted that a con-
siderable majority of the House were of the same
opiiiion with himself, he saw no impropriety in
having that opinion ez|»uwd. The propoailKas
;dbvG00gle
19S6
leSTORT OF €ONCHRfiSS.
mm
APSI^1798.]
Exttutiaa ef Britiik TVcoty.
would not mwtfBrexrith. any bill which mighi be
biougbt in. Bud (entleman would have ihe ducre-
tioa lo Tote ^oi il oi Dot. If a majority of the
House thought differeatly from him, and ctose to
negatiTe the amendmeut, he should be latisfied.
Ualil he beacd somelbing further on the busi'
nets, to otuiviuce him of the impropnety of doing
so, he should wish to see a decision of the House
upon the pioposition as he had ofieted iL
Ht. Habpbr said he was of the number who
(houghl the meaaaie of passing the resolution on
the table a very eipedienl one ; bat whilst this
was his opinioQ, he knew there weie many, both
within and without their walls, of a different opio-
ioik. He had no objeelion to sentlemeo's express-
ing their opinioD& bnt he wi^ed also to be at li-
berty to express his. He should, therefore, pro-
pose that the mover shquLd farm his resolution as
a preamble. This would answer the purpoee of
the gentleman ttotu Vir^nia, [Mr. Moobb.]
He said, when it was so formed, erery one
would have an opportunity of voting for it, and,
if B^atived, the resolution wonld stand as before.
He hoped] therefore, the proposal would be agreed
to.
Mr. Dbahborn said he couaidered his motion
in the nature of a preamble ; and he had no ob-
jection to any alieratiob that wonld make il more
properly so.
Mr. KiTTBBA appealed to the caniJor of the gen-
tleman who brought forward the amendment, with
revpect to the p'opriety of making his proposition
& dislinet one. He thongbt it wotild be extremely
improper to pass a resomtion whieh should say,
" We pass this law. ihongh we bdieve it to be a
very bad one." He thought it also directly eharg-
isg anoihei branch of the Government with im-
proper conduc^
Mr. Nicholas had no objection to the amend'
ment being inserted by way of preamble. He
urfced the propriety of the opinions of members
bemg fairly taEeo on this important business.
Mr. GsGQo wished to offer an amendment, as a
substitute to that before the Committee. It was,
in snb^unce, as follows : " Setolved, That under a
consideration of existing circumstances, without
reference to the merits or demeriu of the Treaty,
and in confidence that measures will be taken by
the Executive to maintain our neutral rights, it
is expedient," ttc.
This was declared out of order until the amend-
ment was decided on.
Mr. VEIIABI.S had no objection to the proposi-
tions being taken sepatately, as gentlemen would
be then left at liberty to vote as tlier pleased. He
' eMtceived there were gentlemen who would vole
for the propooition with the ameodmentj who
' would not vote for it without it. He did not
' ktww that anjr amendment would reconcile the
' resolution to him ; for, though he should vote for the
f amoidment, ha would not Dind himself to vote for
' earrying into effect the Treaty.
I Ur. MuBKAT said, if this meaanre was pursued,
i the Treaty would be defeated. The amendment
i prapoaed, implied that the friends of the Treaty
with odium, or lose the Treaty 1 These steps, he
said, all led lo one issue — a rejection of the Trea-
ty. Thegentleman from Virginia last np, had de-
clared that, though he should vote for the amend-
ment,he would not be bound to vote for carrying
the Treaty into efieet. He believed most of those
gentlemen who would vote for the amendment,
would vote against the original resolution ; and
that it was introduced as a barrier betwixt the
Treaty and those who were frieiidlv to it. He
would agree lo or reject the original resolution ;
for be, for one, would declare be would not vote
for the resolution so loaded. If the Treaty w^sto
be so carried into effect, it would poison its vitals.
The Treaty was the law of the laud ; it abo held
up a r^lalioD between two nations. It was not
merely the delivery of the posts, or compensation
for spoliations, that the Treaty embraced ; such a
resolution would spread a general alloy of bad
opinion, which would eventually bring the two
nations to the swocd. The Treaty, so loaded,
would not have the desired effect; for, instead of
allaying the spirit of enmity between the two
countries, il would serve lo keep it alive. It was
the inteiest of boih countries to be at peace, and
to have a good understanding with each other.
Were the amendment propraed to be adopted, it
would keep up ihat animosity which tiad been
raised against the PaaaiDENT lor having executed
the Treaty. Small were his means, said Mr. M.,
of settling disputes with foreign nations. With-
out Navy, without Army — nothing but plain rea-
son with which to meet a powerful Court—
[Mr. Macon wished to know of the Spbakhb
whether Mr. M. was in order? The Spbakbb an-
swered in the affirmative.]
Mr. MoBKAT said he had not spoken on the sub-
ject before. He was stating that the PaBanwHT
was armed only with reason ; he was stripped of
all the symbols of power, and if the Treaty before
them was carried mto effect, with such a clog as
the amendmeol propmed, be would be debilitated
indeed. Their Executive had, in his opinion, done
Seat things, and what wonld have covered any
uropean Minister with, untarnished kurela, by
means of raason and policy ; for, however wick-
edly Courts act. they <»lcDlale upon the force of
the Powers witn whom they treat. When a Min-
ister goes to negotiate, they inquire into the naval
and military force of his country, their appropria-
tions for the army and navy, &J:.. Ac. The En-
voy of the United States would m a blank upon
such an occasion. What was their interest, then ?
It wastogiveenergy totheirOovernment. Should
they then pass the law in such a manner as al-
most to warrant the people in resisting il 1 The
only thing which remained for them to do, was,
not only to carry the Treaty inlo effect, but to
carry it into effect with good taiih. The object
was not merely the posts — it was a conciliation of
produce the greatest advantage ; whereas, if they
were to agree to the amendmeut propoaed, so co-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.OPR.J
EMCutum of Britith TVeofy.
[ApmI^ 1796.
reted with odiam, it would weaken the power of
the Executire, ftlreadr too feeble.
UJ. S. Smith said he had aereT seen any cause
of gloom. He Dever doabted that the members
ofuttt House would come to rigbc conclusions.
Tbey did right yealerday. and he waa oot afraid
of their doing wrong t[>-day. Id their decision
yesterday, the Chairman haa doubts. He decided
in favor of the resolution, in hope« of its undergo-
ing some modification — that modification was
now brought forward. It did not entirelr please
him ; bat lie thought it might be so amended as to
please every one. He moved that the words "and
may prove injurious to the United States," be
struck out Consented to.
Mr. MuBLEKBEBQ said, when he gave his vote
yeBterday, he did it in the hope of a modification
of the resoIatioD taking- place in the House. A
modification was now oroi^bt forward^ and he
was ready to rote for some' such modification.
Whilst he made this declaration, he must add, that
he was willing also to vote for the original reso-
lution. He wished the sense of the House to he
taken upon the two propositions separately.
Mr. Dearborn sonsenied to the propositions
being taken separately.
Mr. B. Smith moved 'to strike ont the word
" highly," so as to read objectionable, instead of
"highly objectionable."
The sense of the House was taken, when there
were 48 for the striking out, and 48 against it.
The Sprakeb gave his vote in the affirmative.
Mr. Sedowick said, he had not troubled the
House since the resolution was first brought for-
ward. He came prepared, on a particular day, to
have taken an eiiensive view of the subject; to
hare attempted to show that the Treaty 'could be
defended on its merits ; that, on the most cool de-
liberation, he. found the Treaty not only nnobjee-
tionable, but to contain more advantages than any,
than all the Treaties ever formed by this country.
He then resignM to another gentleman the right
he had of addressing the Committee, and he had
DOW altogether abandoned his intention of sup-
porting by argument his opinions, and he did not
iniepd (if it would be in order, which it would
ntitj to go into the discussion at present. He
visned not to consume the time of the House, be-
eaase, if the Treaty was to go into effect, it was
high time it should be done ; it was also high time
that the people of this country should know its
fate. He had intended to have attempted to prove
that this Treaty drew the- differences subsisting
between the two countries to a happy conclusion ;
that, besides redressing the injuries of which they
had a right to complain, it was of a nature bene-
ficial to the essential interests of the United
States; but, if he had thought differently, he
would not have agreed to the proposition now
brought forward. Whqt was the intention of the
mover? He told them it was for harmony; it
was to reconcile the opinions of gentlemen with
ibeir vote ; it was for unanimity. He asked that
^Dtlemeo, and those who supported the proposi-
* ' r tUey POiiM pf' -'.I'lly ro'-'-ei c ; fi?i
the iauguu^e hel<
l( tiiere could
be so complete a departure from their priiici[4«*
as to agree to that amendment 1 Wh«t was the
consequence? Were they to make harmony by
declaring war 1 By declaring the other brmnches
ofthe CKirerHment to have ratified an ofajectiw-
able instrument 7 Was it possible that either hai>
mony in the other branches of Oovemment, or in
the people, should be advanced br a declsratin
su^h as this? And where was tne occasion Tat
it? From th« promulgation of this olmoxiou
Treaty to the present time, had not the {Hesses
teemed with publications cm this subject ? Sinee
the debates had taken place, every gentleman had
brought forward his objections at large. The pa-
pers of this city had published the argiments Ak
and against the question. The whole lay be&re
an intelligent public, and, so for as remcta per-
sonal responsibility, the peopl« will decide be-
tween the contrary opinions. He bcagad gentle-
men to recollect that the PaBaiDEirr tad aont no
more than he was authorized to do by the people
of this country. Had he.nota right to negotiate?
A negotiaiioD took place ; the effects of it had been
submitted to that body, to whom the people di-
rected it should be submitted. The Senate bad
advised the ratification, and the P«Baii»NT had
ratified and promulged it. Had they exceeded
their powers? Certainly not. Wbat, iben, was
the consequence of the declaration now proposed?
He asked gentlemen who were disposed to advo-
cate the proposition before them, to consider them
as doing an act which ihej were authorized lo
perform — a Constitutional act, for which they
were appointed. If they passed the present reto-
luiion, what language would be strong enough to
reprobate the censure which would be cast upon
the other branches of Government? Had the
PsEainEKT and Senate done more ; and if no more
than their duty, who had given them the authori-
ty to comment upon theii acts ? The proposed
amendment declared that they had done the thing
that was wrong. Would they hear, ought they to
bear this 1 They ought not to bear it.
He requested that gentlemen would reverse the
case. Suppose the .House had, in parsnance of
the authority delegated to them by the Canstitn-
tioo, done an act confessedly withm the limits of
that authority, (as it was agreed was the ease in
the present instance in the conduct of the Prbsi-
DBNT and Senate,) and any other branch of the
Oovemment, and particularly the other branch d
the Legislature, should undertake to comment on
such acts of the House, to declare to their con-
stituents and to the world that our decisions were
injurions or (d>jectionable ? The seatimenta
which roch conduct, on the part of the Sotate,
would excite in the House, would be stroag, una-
nimous, and every gentleman then woiua feel
them to be just. The rights of the Senate, in
this instance, were the same: they were eqoally
independent, and neither the injury nor tbe re-
sentment would be lesser. He hoped, on temper-
ate reflection, a majority would not invade tfaOM
ri^fs in another department, which, as their
ow!i, il'ey wou'd and oup-hr to defend.
In tills view of the subject, ivhen nu good e^
;dbvGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
AFHihl796.]
ExtctUion of Britith TVetOy.
[H.OPR.
ms proposed, why ma the declaration to be
mftde? Was it to Veep stive the misuDderataad-
ing which had already taken place between the
diSerent breaches of Oovemmeat 1 Certainly
that waa not a desirable Ihiog^ To say these
laws were made from circumstaiices of imperious
oeceasity, as had beeaohs^rved by bia friend fiom
FeonsyWania, [Mr. Kitteha,] was not the best
mode of procuring submission and respect to
them. No ioatance could be produced in which
such a conduct had been adopted, and be lioped it
would not now be sanctioDecC
Mf. Ki-rcHELL said, he should rote against ibe
proposition now brought forward, because he
thought it wrong to hoM up an idea which would
have a tendency to weaken the GoTernmeat. He
looked upon it as injudoas. The people would
judse upon the Treaty from the instiutneot itself
ana what bad been said of it. They ought never
to alarm the people unnecessarily. It was not
from any fear of roing to war, or any other -ap-
prebenstoQ but woat he had mentioned, which
caused this opposition in biiu.
Mr. Gallatin said, if the propositions could
be divided, no gentleman could reH^onably object
to the sense of the House being taken upon them.
' Mr. Pabkeb said, he had not yet spoken upon
this business. He would now say, he disapproved
of the amendment, and should not vole for it. He
thought the Treaty a bad one, and would not
agree to rote for it bv means of any modification.
Mr. Heister said, he should vote for the
amendment, because, if the Treaty went into
operation, he should wish the reasons which in-
duced the House to agree to it to appear on the
Journals. When, however, the resolution for car-
rying the Treaty into efiTect was put he should
rote against it.
The motion was then put on the preamble, and
decided in the negative, as follows: Yeas 49,
Y^tt. — Theodarua Bijley, Abraham Baldwin, Da-
vid Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomss Bloont, Richard
Brent, litfopaej Buifgea, Samuel J. Cmbell, Gabriel
Christie, John Clopton, Isaac Coles, Henry Deaibom,
Sauael Bula, Jewe Franklin, Albert Gallatin, WilUun
B. GilM, Jame* Gillespie, Chriib^lMr Greenup, An-
drew Gregg, William Barn Orove, Wade Hanipton,
Carter B. Hani*>a, John Ualhoin, Jonathan N. H«^
vene, Danid Heiiier, Jame* Halland, GeMge Jaekwut,
EdiranI Livingatan, MiUhew Lo^e, William LTman,
Salnael MuJa;, Nathaniel Maeon, James Madison,
John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlen-
berg, Anthony New, Jolm Nicholas, Alaiuider D. Orr,
John Page, Francis PreMon, Robert Rutherford, Israel
Smith, John Swanwick, Abnlom Tatom, FbiUp Tan
Cortlandt, Joaepb B. Vamnm, Abraham Tellable, and
Richard Winn.
Nati. — Fiibcr Amea, Benjamin Bonnie, Theophilui
Bradbury, Nathan Bmn, Duiiel Buck, "liiomaa Clai-
borne, Joshua Coit, William Cooper, Jeremieh Crabb,
George Dent, Abiel Foet«r, Dwigbl Foster, Eiekiel Gil-
bert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glen, Benjamin Goodhue,
Channce; Goodrich, Roger Griswold, George Hancock,
Robert Gioodloe Haipei, Thomas Hartley, John Heath,
Thomas Hendema, James Hillhoiue, William Hind-
man, AaroD Kitdiell, John Wilkea Kitteta, Qeoige
4Ul Con.— 48
Leonard, Bamnel Lyman, Fraodi Malbone, William
Vane Mnmy, Jonah Pariur, John Seed, John Ricb-
aids, Theodore Sedgwick, Bamnel Sitgreavea, Jeremiah
Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith, Samuel Smith,
William Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Zepbaniah Swift,
George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson,
Uriah Tracy, John E. Tan Allen, Peleg Wadsworth,
and John Williama.
Prom this list it appears that the question was
lost by one vole. The Clerk, however, through
mistake, reported the votes to be equal, viz: 49
for and 49 against the question, and the Speaker
gave bis vote in the negative, but the above was
afterwards found to be the true statement.
Mr. W. Bmii;h was glad the motion was nega-
tived. He did not wisn either blame or praise to
be cast Ufwn the Treaty by the resolution passed
to carry it into effect. He would, therefore, more
to add the following words to the original resola-
tion : " Without reference to the merits of the
Treaty."
Mr. Giles opposed this amendment. He said,
it would he an indirect mode of passing a cen-
sure upon the House for having undertaken to
judge of the i^erits of the Treaty. He did not
know whether it struck the ^ntleman in the
same way, but he would agree it was improper to
pass a censure upon the House. He hoped, there-
fore, the motion would either be withdrawn or
voted against.
The motion was withdrawn.
Mr. 3wA.NwioK said, had the amendment whieh
had been proposed been adopted instead of being
rejected, he miEht have waived his objections to
the Treaty, and have voted for carrying it into
effect : but when he was called upon to give a
vole upon the unquallBed resolution, however he
might differ in sentiment from some of his friends.
he should be under the necessity of voting against
it. He knew the question was important. The
gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. Amep.] in
Eiffli wrought colors, had represented il in all its
fulness. But, after reviewing his mind, he had
not been able to see this instrument in thai light
which could induce him to give his vote for it.
He hoped no impropriety of motive would be a»-
Grilled to any gentleman on that floor — he had no
doubt every one acted as his feelings told him
was right ; and, on this eventfU Question, in
which they must differ, be hoped tliey shoald
have the candor to put the difference to a proper
account. His interest would have led him io
vote for the Treaty, as he had much property, in
common with his fellow-citizens, on the ocean,
and his ships were upon his own risk, and losses
would of course be heavier to him than to most
other merchants J hut he could not, consistently
with his judgment, which was imperious upon
this occasion, vote for the Treat);, though he
might have done it if the resolution baa been
qualified.
Mr. Holland went over the reasons that wonld
induce him to vote against the Treaty ; which
are detailed at length in his speech urmn the
merits of the Treaty. He said, that if tne con-
struction of the 9th article were to extend to the
.dbyGoogle
imi
HESTORY OF CONOKBas.
rK.}
Exeauiat qf BritM, Troatf.
lands in North Cardina, late hoti Qnavi\ia't,»t
had be«D supposed by some gendonea, tfae claim
iravld certainlf be renisted br fofce.
Mr. Wink said as it waa*tiii opinioa and the
opioiDD of the generality of his conalitacstt that
ne Treaty was a bad oae, he should vote agaiiwt it.
The question was then taken b; yeas and nays,
and determined in the affirmatire — yeas 51, nays
48, as follows
Yttt. — Fidm Atam, Thaodonu Bailey, Benjamda
Bonins, Tktophihu Biadbnry, Duiial Back, Gabriel
duiatia, JoAna Coil, Wilham Coopn, Jammiah Cnbb,
Qungt Dant, Al]ul Foain, Dwqfat Foatar, Ei^id
GiUwrt, NichoUi Gilman, Heui; Giea, Brn '
Ooodbna, Chauneey Goodrich, Andrew Qnu,
bertGoocUoe Hupar, _
deraon, Jamei HillhouH, Williani Hindman, AaniD
Kitchall, John Wilkas Kittata, GeargB Leonard, Elatouel
Lyman, Fiancu Malbone, Frnleiick A- MnhlenbeTB,
Wm. Vani Murray, John Reed, JiAa Richaida, Theo-
dora Sadgwiek, funnel BitgraaTei, Jeremiah Smith,
Nathanid Smith, Inac Smith, Samuel Smith, William
Bmhh, Ze^anlah Swift, Geo. Thatcher, Rkhard Thorn-
aa. Mart ThomMon, Uriah Ttot, John E. Van Al-
; leli,niilipTaiiCartlandt,FelegWadiwoTtii, and John
tniliaini.
WxTt, — Abraham Baldwiii, DavidBaid, Lemuel Ben-
I ton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bijan,
! DempMy Burgei, Samuel J. Cabell, Thomas Claibome,
John Clopton, Isaac Coles, Heniy DesrtKini, Samuel
: Eaile, JeiM FiankUn, Albert Gallatin, William B.
' AUaa, Jamea GiDearae, CbnM.-pbsT Greenup, Wade
BaaplDn,CaiteTB. Haniaoa, John Hadiom,Jona^an
M. Hanna, John Heath, Daniel Haiiter, Jamea Hot-
bad, OaOTfe Jacbon, Edwaxl LJTingalon, Matthew
Ladca, Williaia Lyoaan, Samoal Madaj, Nathaniri
Haocm, Jaowa MadMon, Jidm Hilladga, Andrew Mooce,
AuHrany New, John Nicholw, Alaiandar D. Orr, Jidm
P^a, Jouah Parker, FfaBcii Preatoo, Robert Rather-
fcrd. larael Smith, Thomas Sprjgg, Jtdm Swanwick,
Absalom Tntsm, Joaaph B. Varnom, Abraham Vena-
ble, and Richard Winn>
Ordered. Tint a Ull or bills be broiurht in pvr-
aaani to ttte said retolstioD, and tbatHr. Hili/-
aoireE, Mr. BtoswicK, and Ur. QaLLaTtK, do pre-
pare and bring in the aama.
[REcariTDLATioH.
For declaiing the Treaty hig^y objectiooable 48
AMinat this dee laratioe - - - 48
The SfBAKm decided in the negatire.
Por declaring the Treaty objectjonalile - 49
Aminst the declaration : some because they
did not consider it objeciionable; others be-
cause they feared making the declaration
would be injurious, and others because, so
opposed to the Treaty, as to object to alt
compromise - - - - - 49
The Speaker decided in the negative.
For carrying into effect the Treaty: soiae be-
cause a good one, others because beat to exe-
cute il under existing circumstaaces - 51
Against carrying it into effect, because had in
Itself, and noiwith.-iCanding exii^in^r circum-
Abeent on this questioa: Mecsi?. SaBucRMi
and FKEEMaM, on leave ; Mr. DnvaLi^ resigned;
Mr. Patton, by illneas: Mr. Fimvi^y, Bocideot-
ally.]
Hon DAY, May 3.
The bill making further prorbioii relative to
the rerenue cutters, was received from the Se-
nate, with some amendmeiktB, which were gone
ifaroogh and agreed to.
The reports of the Committee of Conuaeree
and Manttfactures on sundry petitions relative to
the establishment of new ports of delivery and
entry, were agreed to. By this report it is pro-
posed that Ipswich, Little Egg Harbor, Havre de
Once, Newbury, Berkley, and Taunton, be made
ports of delivery ; ibat the district of Hudson
should be confined to the city of Hudson alone;
and that those places heretofore annexed to i^
shouid be re-anneied to New York ; that the dis-
trict of Cedar Point should be called Nanjemoy;
and that of Sherburne changed to Nantucket.
The resolutions were referred to the committee
who made the report, to bring in hills accordingly.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the repoK upon the petition of Jo-
nathan Hastings, deputy postmaster of Boston,
praying for recompense for his extra services in
receiving and despatching the English ntail for
[wo years. It ynt recommended tliat he should
have two hundred dollars allowed, which waa
agreed to, and a bill ordered to be brought in.
Mr. SwAHWicK presented a petition and memo-
rial from Richard Oernaa &, Co., of Philadelphia,
praying that the bill proposed to be passed to re-
peal the act allowing a drawback on exported
snuff might not go into a law, as they should suf-
fer greatly by such a repeal, havittg tnade very
considerable contracts abroad, which ibev should
be under the necessitv of completing. The me-
morial was referred to the Committee of the
Whole, to whom the bill on that subject is re-
committed.
Mr. Qflssa said, as ha believed geathmoi
would wiah their aessioa to eome m an end aa
soon sa the public business would permit, be
should Mbmit a resoifitioa which would bring
the tnbieot under considemtiMi. He {Moposed
one to the followiBe e%et ; which was agreed to,
and referred to a aeieet committee :
.KsMtei^That a committee ba appointed en tha
part of this Boon, to be joined by a ooBuaiKee lo be
appoJAted on the part of the Senate, to oonader and
report what buainse* lunaini ncowaiy to be dune dar-
ing the preMQt aeBUon, and at whet time it will ba
proper to adjanm the nme."
[This resolution was subsequently agreed to by
the Senate, and a committee appointed on its
part.]
Mr. Ors, chairman of the committee to whom
as referred the bill from the Senate authorizing
b-ne:er Zane to locate certain lands Norlh-
est of the river Ohio, reported the hiUwiibout
.dbyGoogle
msToar op oongkesb.
May, 1790.]
ReimburMment of Dvtut—Hiwebadt m Sm^.
[H.OFB.
I Commiuoe of the
ameDdment. Refciied
Whole.
The bill to uouuin and fix the Militaif £»•
taUiahnwot of the Uniied State*, wu read a
third time, the blaoki filled up, and paned. A
division took place on tbequesiioD whethei theie
ahould be (»ie oi two troop* of Light Dragooni.
Two troops were delermioed upon — 10 to 24.
Mr. HiLLBOUSB, chairmaD of the committee
appointed to bring m a bill for makipg appiopria-
Iions for defrafiog the expenses wbien may arise
in carrf ing into enect the Treaty lately concluded
betwixt the United Siaiei and Great Britain, re-
ported a biU ; which was twice read, commilled
10 a Committee of the Whole, gone tluou^h, and
ordered to be engmned for a third reading to-
morrow.
Mr. Jackbok declared hia intention of calling
the jreaa and nay « upon the third reading of the
bill.
The Houae resolved itielf into a Committoe of
the Whole on the bill affording relief to disiillen
in certain cases, which wai agreed to, went
through the House, and wti o^ered to be ot-
grossed for a third reading to-morrow.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on a report of the Committee of Com-
merce and Manufactures on the petition of Wil-
liam Boche A. SoQj praying the relnra of an ex-
cess of duties which they had paid on ressels,
which had been charged as foreign vessels, on
account of their having been several years em-
ployed in the whale fishery in Prance. The re-
port of the committee was in favor of the petition-
ers ; but it was disasreed to.
HEIUBURSEMBNT OF DUTIES.
been paid on twenty bales of goods which had
been 'damaged by the aretsetting of a schooner,
which was conveying them from a French ship-
of-war. which lay at a distance of eighteen miles
from the port, on aceoiuit of her drawing more
water than the river contained. The report was
in favor of the petitioner, and wa* agreed to, but
not without considerable debate. It was opposed
oo the ground of the vessel's having completed
her voyage ; that, after an entry was made at the
eutitom-hoose. ao allowance for damage could be
made ; that tni* ease was the same with claims
ivhich had hitherto been resisted for ^oods which
bad been destroyed by fire, or otherwise, after the
duties were secured. On the other hand, it was
contended that the Te«el had not completed h^r
voyage, and that the owners were as much enti-
tlea, m case* of insurance, for damages done in a
river, as for those done at sea ; that the entry hav-
ing been made at the custom-house arose from
the necessity of talttng up the goods in lighters,
owing to the large siie of the vessel. It was even
urgeo by Mr. 8. Smith, that the petitioner wai
not only eolitledin this case, bat if a bale of good)
were to fall overboard, in unloading at a wharf,
uod l:i'. ri:hy rc'-i'iired dama^i;. an abtile»ieiil of
iht^ duties uuglit to be made, as it was always un-
derstood the duties were not to lie npcot (be owr-
chant, but upon' the consumer.
The report on the petition of Philip Finney,
owner of some fishing vessels, praying for the
payment of a bounty which he bad been deprived
of for want of formality, was against the petl-
tiooer. Agreed to.
The report on the petition of Samuel Brown, of -
the same natare with the last, was in favor of the
petitioner, but it was disagreed U
Whole, except in the case of the last petition,
which was disagreed to by the casting vote of the
Spbakeb, and the report of the Committee of
Commerce and Manufactures was agreed to by
the same casting vote.
The resolutions were referred to the same oon^
mittee to report a bill oi bills accordingly.
DRAWBACK ON BNDFF.
Mr. OooDHDE called up the reoort respecting
the repeal of the drawback alloweil on all export-
ed snuff. This occasioned considerable debate.
It was urged that there was a necessity for the re-
peal, as the Treasury were daily paying immense
sums in drawbacks } and that as it was not likely
they should yaai any new law upon the subject
this session, it was necessary to repeal th<! draw^
back. This was objected to. as by such a repeal,
the staple commodity of tne Southern States
would be taxed on exportation ; and that, instead
of repealing the drawback, the law itself should be
Mr. NicHOLAB moved a resolutioa directing the
.ommittee of Commerce and Manufaotnves to
make a report on the several petitions which had
been referred to tbem, praymg for a repeal of
the duties of snuQ'; but, alter some Lttle debate,
a motion was made to adjourn, and the HoDae
adjourned without making any oispoaiticm of the
resolution.
Tdesoay, May 3.
Mr. HADieoN, chairman of the committee ap-
pointed to inquii-e into the number of lots of land,
and the quantity of acres, reserved for the future
disposition of Congress, in the sales made to the
Ohio Company and others, made a report, which
was twice read and referred to a Coinmittee of
the Whole.
The bill providing for the relief of the owners
of stills in certain eases, was read a third time,
and passed.
Mr. a. SviTH, chairman of the committee to
whom was referred the amendments of the Se-
nate to the bill for providing relief and protection
to American seamen, repotted, that the commit-
tee were of opinion that the House should disa-
gree to the amendments, and appoint a Committee
of Conference with the Senate. The House took
up the report, agreed Co it, and a Committee of
Conference was appointed.
A peiition was pres.;nted and read from John
Nicholson, of Philadelphia, praying that an liddi-
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HISTORT OF CONGBESS.
H-opR.]
ExeaOioa of Briti^ TVeofy.
fUAT, 1796.
dmat duty should be pUced on certain Uiidi of
^Ms imDorted into the United States.
Mr. Thatcher moTed that the Committee of
the Whole', to whom was referred the report of a
■elect committee respecting Post Offices and Post
Roads might be discharged, on ibe ground that
more time might be girea to ancertain whether
certain proposed alteraiions in the roads would
be adraotageous or not. This motion was nega-
tived, BDd the House resolred itself into a
Committee of the Whole on the consideration
of the repo-t ; and, alter makins some progress
therein, the Committee rose, and had leave to sit
agkin.
A bill relative to the making of a road from
WiscasseL in Maine, to aavannah, in Georgia;
and a bill for compensating Jonathan Hastings,
were read.
Mr. W. Smith, Cbairman of the Committee of
Ways and Means, reported the bill as amended,
in consequences of tne inquiry made of the Di-
teetors of the Bank for the payroeni of the debt
diie to the fiink of the United States, together
with a report respecting that inquiry ; which was
read a second time, and ordered to be referred to
k Committee of the Whole.
The following is the answer of the Bank to
the inquiry of thp Committee, whether the Bank
required payment of the whole five millions said
to be due, or whether they would be satisfied with
a part, and let a part remain as heretofore:
"The committee appointed to confer with the Ci
mitle* of W»j« and Means on the subject of conH
ing, to > remote period, the loans made to the United
States, hanng reported :
"The Bourdcook into considention the mort es
tial points thst had relation to the present auhject, .
Ihe^reat increase in the price of all alienable proper^,
which requires a corresponding addition of circukting
medinm to represent il; the necessity of plwang this
jiutitntion in ■ more TMpectable situation, in pomt of
available fiinds, which will enable it lo promote more
genaraUj the inlerMla of oommerce and manubctures,
uid afford the means of bciiitating the financial opera-
tions of the Government, by temponuy loans, wbenerei
the fiscal adminiettatioB may require such a iesont«e,
as well *• the more immediate adTantagea of Che stock-
holders ami cUKtomers of the Bank, mtimately con-
nected with the active employment of a large ipede
capital: Wherenpon,
"Raohed, That the United States be requested to
extinguish the loans that are already due to the Bank,
as well as to make provision for those which may be-
eonia payable m the eourae of the present year,
THOMAS WILLING, Prtndtnt.
Baaa or tbb UniTaa Statis, April SI, 1798,
TREATY WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
The bill making approjjriaiions towards defray-
ing the expenses of carrying into effect the Trea-
ty lately concluded between (he Uniud ^tes and
Great Britain, was read a third time, the blanks
filled np, and passed.
The blank for the sura of money to be appro-
priated for carrying the act into eflect, was fiUed
up with $80,808 i tTiat for payment of each of the
Commissioners in London, with $6,667 50; and
that for those residiDg in the United States, with
$1,445 each.
Mr. FmnLET having been absent when the two
questions on the Btiti^ Treaty were taken in the
Committee of the Whole and in the House, now,
when the bill for carrying it into e^ect was alionl
to be passed, he said, having been under an ur-
gent necessity to be absent ftom the House for a
short time during the silting of Saturday, when
(he question was taken for makins the laws ne-
eessary for carryins the Treaty wiHi Britain into
effect, and t>eing thus prevenced from having his
name entered on the Journals, which, though it
would have made no ciiange m the state of the
vote, he wished to hare done — he desired now lo
express the sentiments by which be would hare
been governed. Urgent as was his call to leave
the House, he would have dispensed wilh il if be
had suspected the discnssioa would have been
solution recorded on the Journals expr
the sense of a decided majority of that House,
and he believed of the people of the United
States, very genetaJly, respectmg the character of
the Treaty. If that bad been done, he had made
up his mind to have given it no further opposi-
tion i bu^ from some gentlemen disapproving of
[he Treaty so highly that they would not vote in
favor of any question that was calculated to give
il efficacy ; and, from others, who though they
had discovered a marked disapprobation of il, yet
did not choose to record ihaC disapprobation on
the Journals, this resolution was not carried by a
majority of votes ; therefore, that he might not
be responsible for the consequences of the Treaty.
he would vote against the bill before the House
for carrying it into operation, and very briefly as-
sign his reason for doing so.
He acknowledged that there were imperious
circum.stances which urged the House to carry
the Treaty into effect. The enormous spolia-
tions committed by the British on our trade^
which were expected to be reimbursed in conso-
quence of the Operation of the Treaty, powerfully
addressed our interest, and this, with an a[^e-
hension of the increase of depredations on our
trade if the Treaty did not go into effect, which
depredations and the oulrageotiii impreauncni of
our seamen, however, are still continued, and the
agitation which has been excited in the public
mind, had determined a number of members lo
vote for carrying the Treaty into effect, who have
expressed a high decree of difapprobation of the
instrument. He said, that he fell the &le erf* these
imperious circumstances, and they had deter-
mined him to waive his objections arising from
the want of reciprocity, security against continued
hostilities, or other defects of the Treaty, if it
been perseveringly advocated on princi-
ples abhorrent lo oui Government, and which, if
admitted, effected a change of its principles eqoil
He said, be had examined the Treaty in con-
txion with the principles on which it was advo-
cated, with the most unprejudiced deliberation of
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1897
mSTOHT OF CONGRESS.
Extaitum of Britidt Tnaty.
[H.OFR.
which he was cipnble, and could not jnitify him-
self ID ssnctiooiDg an exercise of powers foonded
I specifically
o dangerous a latitude of
knowledged a transfer of the po'
Tested in Congress, without Us
eonaent
He said, that the power of regulating com-
merce with foreign nations was as explicitly Test-
ed in Congress, as the powers of appropriating
money, declaring war, leTyins taxes, Ac., and by
the principles on which the Treaty is advocated,
the negotiating power may exercise these or any
other or all the Legislative powers of Congress,
or transfer them to be held in concurrence be-
tween the negotiating power and foreign nations,
without the concurrence of Congress, with which
these powers are specifically vested and expressly
guarded.
He added, that (he eDnstructios on which the
Treaty was 8Up)to;ted, tIz : that the Treaty-
making power mu:ht exercise any or all of the
powers Tested in CongreEs, as far as they related
to foreign nations, was not supported by the Con-
stitution, but destruclive of it; declarations of war
and all things connected with them, have as ne-
cessary a relation to foreign nations as the regulat-
ing of commerce hai. and the levying taxes and
appreciating money for carrying such Treaties
into effect have as much relation to foreign na-
tioDs as the regulations of commerce, as they
cannot be carried into effect without the exercise
of these powers ; oonseqnently, on the principles
on which the Treaty is snppoTled, the President,
with the consent of^ the Senate, in its EzeculiTe
capacity, may declare war, levy and appropriate
money, and exercise every other LegislatiTe pow-
er Tested in Congress, by only connecting the ex-
ercise of them with the Treaty form. He raid,
this was not sanctioned by the words of the Con-
atitutiou ; it is no where said that the negotiating
powers should exerciseanvor all the powers Test-
ed in Confess by the only means of interesting
foreign iMtions in the exercise of them by Treaty.
Such ■ fauitude of construction cannot be admit-
ted, because it tubjeeia all the LegislatiTe autho-
rity to the discretion o( the £xecutiTe and foreign
nations.
He said, the only expressions on which this
new construction rested was the declaration that
the Phebidsht and Senate shall make Treaties ;
bnt the declaration in the Constitution that Con-
gress, oonsistins of a Senate and House of Re-
presentatiTes, shall make all laws ; yet, notwith-
standing the positiveness of the word "make,"
what they do make is not a law until it is ap-
proved and sJKned br the PREBiDEirr. Admit
the word " male" to naTe the same meaning in
the one case as in the other, and the difficulty is
remored. The construction for which he con-
tended {ffeserred the Constitutional powers in
their proper departments, and where the negotiat-
ing power thinks it proper to treat on Legisla-
tire tubiects. Let the concurrence of Congtess
be obtained, as is osnal in all free OoTemmenti,
and the Constitution ispreserred-, but on the con-
struction emtcsded tot by tlM adTOcates for the
Treaty, its principles were so essentially changed
that he felt himself constrained to vole against
the bill for carrying a Treaty into effect which
embraced such powers and wassupported by such
principles. The poper of sequestrating debts he
did not at this time object To, on account of oor
TCculiar circumstances with relation to Britain.
Sequestration stood connected with war, as it was
of u»e only as a means of preventiog war or car-
rying it on with advantage r therefore, the formal
power of declaring war may, on the same princi-
ples, be exercised by the Executive ; and war is
more frequently engaged in Europe by Treaties
than by any other method.
Our Constimiion undoubtedly intended to pre-
vent the exercise of this power by Treaties, but
It has as explicitly restrained the power of regu-
lating commerce.
He said, he wished to give his testimony by
having hia nay on the Journals ; but, as it was hu
misfortune to be out when the yeas and nave
were called on the same question, and not the
fault of the House, it would be improper for him
to urge a repetition of the call merely on his own
account, bnt would be |^d if any other member
wonid call them that he might have an opportu<
nitv to give his nay. Whether the names were
called or not, he said he would Tote against the
bill.
Mr. Jaocbon said, he had yesterday declared
bis intention of calling for the yeas and nays upon
the passing of the bllT; but. as it bad since occur-
red to him, that it might be thought this Would
be carrying; opposition too &r, be would decline
persisting in his intention. The yeas and nays
were, therefore, not taken.
Wbdnbbdat, May 4.
Mr. OooDHUB, Chairman of the Committee of
Gorometee and Uanufactures, reported a bill for
the relief of Samuel Brown ; another for the re-
lief of Moses Myers {another for the erection of a
light-house on Cape Cod ; and one for the estab-
liahment of certain new ports of entry and deli-
very; which were sererally twice read, and or-
dered to be engrossed for a third reading.
Mr. G. also made a report on the petitions of
certain custom-house officers, recommending that
they should lie oTer tilt the next session.
Agreed to.
Mr- Nicholas, Chairman of the Committee ap-
pointed to confer with a committee fnmi the Se-
nate, with respect to the business which remained
necessary to be finished before the session ended,
and when it would be proper to adjourn the same
reported it as the recommendation of that com-
mittee that the session should be adjourned on the
aOth of the present month. He also reported a
list of business which was entitled to a preference.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the report of the committee on the
subject of Post Offices and Post Roads ; which,
haTing ffone throngb, and made several amend-
ments, the Honse took up the etnuidention at
.dbyGoogle
HISTOHY OF CONOBKSS.
[.ofR.]
AdMit$ian of TermoBee.
{>iAT, 1796.
them, BDd the report wu referred to ■ select com-
mittee to bring in a bill or bills.
Mr. SiT«iREAvES, Chairman of the Committee
appointed to cooudei upon the petition of certain
atloraejs lespectinE the holding of District Courts
at Yorktown and Philadelphia, reported a recom-
mendation that that part of the act which directs
the sessions to be held altematelf at Philadelphia
and Toihtown, be. repealed, &«., and some other
regulations made. T^e report was agreed to, and
& bill directed to be brought in.
The House resolred itself into a Committee of
the Whole upon the report of the committee to
whom was referred the Message of the Pkbsident
respecting the forming the Territory South of the
Tiver Ohio into a new State, by the name of Ten-
nessee; and several documents relative thereto
having been read, the Committee rose, and had
leare to sit again.
A message was received from the Senate, in-
forming the House that tbe Senate had agreed to
the several bills for carrying into effect the four
Treaties lately concluded. Two triflinjg amend-
ments were made in that for carrying into effect
tbe Treaty with Spain; which were agreed to.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Wfac^e on the bill allowing a certain
eompensatiou for horses kilted to batue ; which
having gone through, the House took it up, and
•idei^ It to be engroMed for a third leading
Thdhbdat, May 5.
The Speiebr informed the HoQse that he had
teceived a letter from the Governor of Maryland^
informing the House that an election far a mem-
ber of CoDzress, in the place of Mr. Ddvall, re-
tigned, hacT taken place ; Which communication
was read. The gentleman electtd is RioHAno
Spkioo, Jr.
A repent of the AttOTney Oeneml, relative
ikC dontracta of John (^eve* Symmes, for eertain
lanite in the NorttiwviteRt Tetvitory, wvi twiee
read, and ord«Bd to be eommittad ba a Commiv
toa of the Whole.
The following biUa wer» read Ae third time
and pasKd, viz : for campen.Mting Jonathan Hast-
ings for extra servieaa; for th« relief ef 8amti<^
Brawn ; for the relief of Moms Mvere ; for au-
Aoiizing a li^^t^ousa on Gape Coa ; for allow-
ing oompeniatiHi for hones killed in balde; for
establishmg several new ports of entry and de-
liTery.
Mr. SiTflREAVBa reported a'bill for repealing
much of the aot a* directs that the DiMnetConrta
of PenDsylvaoia shall be held alternately at Phil»>
Jelphia and Yorktowci which wai twice read.
ana ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.
Mr. QooiwnB, Chairman of the Conunittee of
Commerce and Manulactates, made a report on
me memorial of Srlvaous ElMme, TiM Oonml
C Amsterdam, for the t«imbnr«einent af ttro hun-
oied and six dollars, expended in the relief of the
fiiaster and crew of the ship Washii^an, whtctt
Was wrecked pn the ooaat of Holland, in N«T«b-
Wr last i and also Ufon 'SUi petitlan ftom
State of Delaware, praying that provision might
be made to prevent the stealing of negroes and
malatioea. On the first case, the report was in
favor of the memorialists; it was twice read, and
bill (»dered to be brotigbt in. Uptm the latter,
law was recommended to be passed, uid the
report was committed to a Cottmittee of the
Whole.
The House resolved itself into a Cominktee of
the Whole on the bill making provision for the
payment of certain debts due to the Bank of the
United Stales; which having gone ihroogh, the
Committee rose, took it up, aod it was ordmd to
be engrossed for a third reading.
ADMISSION OF TENNESSEE.
The Honse then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of the Whole on tbe Message of the Pbebi-
OEHT, relative to the Tennessee oonntry. The
report of the select eommittee was rend, as fol-
Kuohed, That, by the authenticated {
aecompsnying the Message bom the Prendcnt of the
United States Ut this Hoose, on the 8th day of the pre-
sent month, and by the ordinance of Congress bearing
date the 13th of July, ITST, and bythe law of the Unl-
tei Btatea pessed on the 3)Kh of Mrr, )7M, it ^ipean
that the dtneni of that part of the United Stales ittoA
has been eaOed the Territoiy of the Dnited 8tMM Sonft
of the river OU», attd wUch is now fbrmed into a SlsAe,
mider k RspnUiean fbna of Oovenunsnt, by Ae ni
of Tennessee, ate antidsd to d the ri|hte and n ' "
to wUeh the aA«ta of odisr Btates in the Iji
attlitled under the CoastiMlien <tf the IJuled Slalsm
and that tbe Stale of Tennsasee is hersby ded««d to ha
oneofthesixtami United Stales of AsMska."
Mr. W. BidTn raH and said be wna opposed
IP the report. He tbobght tbe aeleot commttM
had not attended to soae importtni *riaeipl«
which rasnlted ftom an exunhu^eo w the Mb-
jeet. Beveml qnestions aiose in his mind, on a«
sidering it : Isi. What were die t^ts of the pen*
pie of the Territory Soslfa of Ae ObJaMsMnred
to them by compact widt the Unilaa 8la«esf —
3d. By what antbority i»as the eenett to be taken
in order to ascertain tbe requisite nnnbet tS bn
habitants to entitle them to a participation m the
Pederal eempaef? Sd. Had the cbmos baen
fairly Uken 1
Isi. The righiB of the peo[te of tbe Territciy
South of the Ohio were fomtded on the act «
Congress of ApriL 1700, acoeptii^ the ocseion rf
North Carolina ; the deed of eeasian, ns reeilid i*
that aot, ascertained the ri^ta of tbe inbatiiaats
of tbe ceded TctritoiT. The ffaurtk seeiion of
tbe etesion sttpolateid that "the Tertitotr »o u*dn<
shall be laid out and formed into a Sbmc m Stntea,"
eonmining a snitaUe extent of territory ; the in-
habitants of which (that ii^ of which State) shaM
enjoy all titO privilegea set ibrth in the nvdinane*
(rf CongVBss ot JnlT, 1787, for the gwveaiaatM of
tbe Tertitorv Northwest of the Ohio. That oidi-
nanee W«s tberefere to be ooasldered Ba tke eba^
ter of the Territory ) in dmt were to be fboad ihi
rigbis «f its inhabitants, and their cl^ia to a pw
ti«ipation in the aoanciU of At D*i«B.
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fflSTOmr OP CONGRESS.
lam
[H. or H.
Territory Northwest
parposes of temporary goTerHment, b« one dU-
trict ; subject, however, to be diTided into two
districts, as fature cticumtlaBces may, in the
opinion of Congress, mAke it expedient.
The ordinance then pforides that when there
are five thooMod fnse male inhabitaots in that
Territory, the inhabitanta shall be entitled to a
Legislature, still howeTer remaining subject to
the K<>TerDment and control of Congress. It then
oeisTorth:
" That, in order to provide ibi the eatablidiment of
States and penaanent govemmeat in the said Territory,
and for then admiMKin intolhi Federal Conndl* on an
equal footingwith the original States, at m early apniod
■a may be consistent irith the general intereat, it is de-
clared that th« following artides shall be considered as
artielee of compael between the ori^iul State* and the
pei^ and aialea which may be fomed Aerein, ihall
foiOTO' remain a part of the Gonfederan' of the United
States, aabject to Ike aitialea ^ ConMeialion, and t«
audi alterations as diaU be oanatitQiionally made, and to
aU the M«s and ordinanosa of Ae Vnhad States."
" Abt. S. Titere 4iaU be formedin the said Territory
not kaa thui three nor more than Sre Stabss ; and It han-
ayer any of the said Statea shall have u^ dumsand free
inhalMtuilB therein, suoh Stale shall be -<'nit*r^. by its
dalagates, into the Congies* of (he United Stales, on an
XI footing with the oiiginal States, in idl resjwcta
lever, and shall be at liberty to form a permanent
CoQBtttution and State Ooremment."
The act of Congress of May, 1790, establishing
a Ghtvemment for the ceded Territory South of
the Ohio, declares that the said Territory, for ihe
Surpoaei of temporary gorei-Qment, shau be oae
iatrict, the miiabitasts of whkh shall enjoy all
the DfiTilagea aet forth in the ordinance of the
late Congress for the goTerament of the Territory
Northwest of the Ohio ; and that the government
of ihe Territory South of the Ohio •ball besimilar
to that wiiieh is now ezcreised ia the Territory
Northwest of the Ohio.
Mr. B. Mid, from a review of tboa^ acts and
crdiaanees, tha foUowlu dtduclioas seemed elaap.
Ir to rasalt: that the iahabitaitts of the Tatrltory
Northweat or Soath of the Ohio could not olalm
an adauseloa into the Fadaial Cottaeila aatil the
TirriioiT was pvevionaJT famed intooBeornore
Stalea. fle«aaalT.ttaaiCDngTe*awaBah»aoom[M'
teat to fora tbc Territory iato one or toore Biaie*.
Thi« eonelnsioti, he tfaongtit, obvioniiy flowed
from the tofme of the eompact, " States shall be
feraied in the said Teriitory ;" and wheaever any
of the nid Stem shall have sixty thonsaed free
iahabilaats therein, snek State shall be admitted,
*e. The ptivikwa of adraission into Ihe Ubhri,
and the nmber ofnty thonnad fiaa Inhabitants,
have rriierence te the Territory only in it* eanaci*
tyaiaStua; they are only appHcable to a SUUe
or State* «revio«*ly formed by Connesi. The
int step taen to be taken was fbr Congrese to
detemine whathti the TerrlMry South rf the
OUe ibovld be fermad imo one or more States,
ndteflitheboandarrefiach Binie or States.
U iMa elanr, Mr. 9. laid, ikec CMgran migfat
subdivide that Territory into two or more Btaies;
this was evident, both from the terms of the com-
pact in the ordinance of 1787, which declares
"that States shall be formed in the said Territory,*
and from the act of cession of 1790, which declares
that "the Territory so ceded shall be laid ant and
formed into a State or States, eontainmga suitable
extent of territory." It was no less clear that the
□umber of sixty thousand free inhabitants had no
reference to the Territory, in its present character
as a Territory under the eovemment of Congress,
but as a State, previously formed by Conzreu.
AllowiDR that there were sixty thousand infiabit-
in the Soothem Tenitwy, Congress might,
undoubtedly, by dividing it into two States, leave
less than siily thouMndiahabitants in either, and
consequently deprive them of any claim whatever
— an admission into the Union at this time.
Both tbe ordinance and act of cession contem-
plated, first, a temporary, and after a certain pe-
riod, a permanent Oovemment ; the temporary
Qovemment was to be adapted to its character as
a Territory of the United Slates, the permanent
Oovernment was intended to apply to it when
formed into a State.
2dly. By what authority is the census to be
Ukeni
The Constitution of the United Slates vests ia
CoDffress the power to make all needfel rules and
regnletions respecting the territory of the United
Stales.
The Legislatare of the Territory have, by thfr
ordinance wliich is their charter, authority to
make lavSj in all eases, for the good government
of the distiKt, not repngnant to tlie ^mcliJes and
articles established in the ordinance.
Tha taking a census, the result of wliieti was to
determine ivbetber the Territory was to remain
subject to the Oovernment of the United Stales
or be an independent State and aditiitled into the
Union, oould never hsve been considered as a com-
moa act of legislation for the government of the
distriot ; it was an extraordinary ca«e. which pe-
wdiarly repaired the interposition of Congress.
Their L^blative power related only to ihelt
temal oonceTOs, and was incompetent to this
great and rxtemtd object. But if his reasoniiw
on the former point was correct, the enumerati^
of tfae iirtalMleiris was premature and of no effect;
it oonld have no operation unlit Congress had
formed a State, and designated its boundaries.
3dly. Hed the census been Hli]j taken ?
Mr. 8. thoiight there were circamsfanceB t»
wartnnt an opinion that the census was not »nc&
a one as onght to be relied on. A comparison ot
the act of Congress of 1790, for t^ing the ennme-
ratioD of the inliabilaats of the United Slates, with
tbe act of the Southwestern Territory, would
Aow that although the tatter was generally copied
froni the former, yet that it potnlnny derialed from
it in eretj circumstanee vniieb tvould luve a ten-
dency to swell the number of inhahitanls. The
Ml or Consreas spoke of "the inhabitants wilAia
the respective districts." The act of the Teiri-
wry sptteof*'peoidewllhiii Ihe respective cotm-
•ei.''^ Where the one m,f, "persons realdeot.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H-ofR.]
OIat, 1796.
wittuD," the other says, " peo{de within ;" thus
carefully omiltiog the woida " inhabitaots," " re-
sident." The act of Congress says, " that every
person whose usual place of abode shall be in anv
family on the first Monday in Aue]ust next, shall
be letnmed as of such family." The act of the
Territory lays, "every person whose abode shall
be in any faniily within the lime limited by the
«ct, shall be returned as of such family." The
one says, " the name of every person who shall be
an inhabitant of any dietrici shall be ioserieil,"
Sua. The other says, " every person who shall be
in any county al the time of the ennmeialion
without any settled place of residence, shall," &c.
By the act of Coitgress, the returns are directed to
be posted up, to guard against frauds. By the act
of tne Territory i)o such caution is observed.
From the peculiar period in which the census
was taken, viz : from toe 15th September to 15th
November, the period of the ereatest emigration
through the territory of Kentucky audCumlKt land,
from tne circtmistance of the Sheriffs' being allow-
ed a dollar for every 300 persons they returned,
from the citcamstaoce of the number reiurned
beioK just sufficient to give them two members,
aikdiromthelaw bettkg so framed as toauthorize the
enumeration not only of all transient persons and
etraageis, but also of the inbabilAots and travel-
en, several times over; it was not an uncharitable
conclusion that the enumeration was not so cor-
rect as to be admitted by Congress on so solemn
an occasion.
Mr. S. said he had looked into the Constitution
of this new State, and he could not help observ-
ing that it carried with it the same marks of baste
and inaccuracy as the rest of the proceedings. In
•everal parts it was repugnant to the ordinance of
1787, and to the Constituuon of the Uniied Sutes.
It vested the Legislature with all powen necessary
fbr the L^islature of a free State, without any ex-
ception of the stipulations contained in the ordi-
Lance, which in several imporrant points control
and restrict the States to be formed in the Terri-
tories in their Legislative acts ; and it is evident
that no limitations were intended to the power of
the Legislature, because in speaking of the Ex-
ecutive power, such a limitation is insetted. Art.
2, section 5, says " the Governor shall be command-
er-in-chief of the army and navy of this State, and
of the militia, except when they shall be called
into the service of tne United States i" theoee it
followed that the Legislative power was meant to
be onqualified Ey any exception. The arlictea
which made all lands within the Territory equally
liable to taxation, which declared that no fine shall
be laid on a citizen of this Stale exceeding fifty
dollars, unless assessed by a jury, and which de-
clared that no article manufactured of the produce
of the Territory should be subject to taxation, and
that respecting the navigation of the Mississippi —
all seemed to clash with some of the stipulations
in the otdinauce and with the Constitutional rights
of Congress ; and though there could be do doubt
that the ordinance and the Constitution of dte
United States were paramount to the Constitution
of Tennessee, yet the articles in the ^tter which
had been alluded to, might five rise hereafter, if
now silently acquiesced in by Congress, to cu»>
agreeable discussions.
There were several other points in this Consti-
tution which he thought objectionable ; he would
only, however, notice two which occurred, Damely,
the right asserted to instruct their Representatives,
and their declaration, " that no person who denies
the being of God,'oi a future stale of rewards and
punishments, shall hold any office in the civil
department of the Stale," thus admitting such
persons to hold military <^ces. In making these
comments, he did not mean to call in question in
the least tne right of the people of the Territory
to frame their own Constitution and form of Go-
vernment, but lo show that thb Constitution
ongres^ mvi _.._ _...
111 ajme embarrassment, and that the peoi^ of the
Territory would receive no injury by a delaj of
the busiiiess,and by a revision of the CoitstilutioB,
which was suseeptibl« of material improremeut
Iitdeed, in his opinion, the whole fansiueM was pre-
mature, and he could not suppress hi* deelaratioa
that the United States had not been on this occa-
sion treated with that consideration and respect
to which they were entitled.'
He was notwithstanding willing, if the people
of the Territory were desirous ol being admitted
into the Union, as a separate State, to facilitate
such admission, provided it were done in a Con-
stitutional maimer. It was a matter in which
the whole Union were interested, as well as the
people of the Territory; it was of eonaideraUe
moment to the Uniied States, that a propoaitioo
which admitted a new State to the eqoM ri^ts
in one important branch of Government in tbe
afiairsof tbe nation should be serioufly conaidned
and grounded on clear Constitutionat right In
order to conforin the present applicatioa tosoch
right, he thought the following course ought to
be pursned: Ist Tbat Congress shotdd declare
tbe Territory south of the Ohio a Stai^ for the
purpose of {iemian«R( Ghivemment, and desgnate
Its boundaries. 2dly. That Congress should then
pass a law, directing the enumeration of the free
inhabitants. 3dly. That on finding the Territory
to contain 60,000 free inhsbitants, such Sute shall
be admitted into the Union. Mr. S. then read
certain propositions to that effect, which he ii^
formed the Committee he should propose, if the
— ^rt of the select committee should be rejected.
e concluded with remarking, that, in a few
years, other States would be rising up in the
Western wildernees, and claiming Ueir ri^l (o
admission, and therefore the precedmt now 10 be
established, was of very conuderable importance.
Mr. Habpbb was of opinion, that this was one
of those subjects on which the Houae ahoold not
exercise too rigid a scrut ny. The queattoo was,
whether or not the Territory Soythweat of the
river Ohio should be admitted into the Uaion ai
a State. The people of that connUy, as appeared
from the papers before the Comaaittea, now wish
to relinquish their Territorial QoTemmeiU, and
beeome a part of the Unio». He bdieyad, that
.dbyGoogle
1505
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
May, 1786.J
Admiuicn of TVnnMtee.
tH.orR.
in all qoestioDs relalire to the fonnalioa of Gov-
einmpots, the wuh of ibe people ought to be grati-
fied. He believed, that whenever it should ap-
pear to be the wish of the United Slates, or of
any considerable portion of them, to be goreriied
in such or ^ach a manoer. their ioclioatioD shouU
be attended to. Upon Inis principle, he shoiad
always be favorxbly inolined towards aoy propo-
sition whose object was the dirisioa of Stales, or
to erect new States, as the people themselves, who
were to be affected by sucn measures, might ap-
pear to desire. For, if they were not really bene-
fited by the charge, they would, at lea^t. think
they were, and their inclinations should De con-
soiled as well as their interests, where it conld be
done without injury to the public.
It appeared to him doubtful whether the people
of the Bonthwestem Territory had a right to
erect themaetve*, by their own act, into a State :
but admitting this to be doublful, he thought
there could be no doubt that the House ought to
com^^ with tbeii wishes, in this particular, by
supplying the defect in their powers. He was de-
sirous, therefore, of seeinr come measure adopted,
which should recognise tSat people as a State oi
the Uaioa. With respect to oacertaiaiog the ex-
act namber of their inhabitants, for the purpose
of determining bow many Represenialives they
woold become entitled to, he vras of opinion a
census should be taken for that purpose, under
the authority of Coogress. He titonght their
wishes ought to be our guide in the question,
whether they (hould become a State, but when,
after being erected into a State, they claim a
right to a certain number ol members in the na-
tiontl representation, this becomes a public con-
cern, and the right ought to be ascertamed under
the laws of Congress, and by the roles established
for apportionins representation among the other
Btates of the Union, It was clear, that no indi-
vidual State had a right to take a census by its
own lawa, and to ascertain the number of its own
RepreaentatiTes, and surely this new Stale could
not claim greater privileges than the old ones.
It farther appeared doubtful, whether, even ad-
mitting the right of a State to take its own ceo-
sni, a fair ooe could be lakea under ihe law of
Tenneaee for that purpose. He was very far
fnm charging the people of that Territory with
OBv improper deaign, but their law certainly was
liable to ^reat abuae ; and when the numbers un-
der this imperfect law were barely sufficient to
entitle them to two members, he should think it
very donblfal, whether they ottgbt to be allowed
that number till the right wu ascertained ia some
lets exceptionable mode.
Upon the whole, their existence as a State w«*
one branch of the question, and the number of
inhabitants, and consequent number of Repre-
sentatives in that House, was another. The two
pointB were perfectly differeat, and to be settled
on differeat priaciplet. A« to their existing as %
Slate, he woud, to almost all cosea, adopt it as a
nle, to comply with a iriah of the people them-
Mlva. They, and not we, were to be affected by
<Im rognbilkm. Even ahowld any small inooare-
nience result from this admission to the other
parts of the Union, there was reason, he ihotigbt,
why thai inconvenience should be submittea to,
rather than irritate the people of this Territory,
hy rejecting their application under the present
circumstances ; but be saw no such inconvenience:
to admit them into the Union, he thought, would
add to its strength and resources; would increase
the public happiness and prosperity. He would,
therefore, advise that the State of Tennessee
should be acknowledged as a member of the
Union, and that a law should be passed for taking
a census of its inhabitants before the next session
of Congress, so as to ascettain the number. of
members to which it would be entitled in that
Mr. Sedowice conceived that the' mode of ad-
mitting, and the piinciplesupon which the Soutb-
western Territory were to De admitted into die
Union, were matters to be decided upon by the
Legislature of the United States. The claim of
that Territory to become a State of the Union,
was the first instance of the kind whiob had come
before them, and it was of importance to decide
lighily, as it was establishing a principle to be
acted upon hereafter. This Territory claimed to
be admitted in consequence of certain aeU, of an
authority over which the United States had no
control. This Territory claims, without your
agency and without ^our consem, to be admitted
as a State of the Union, and a representaticxi in
one branch of your Government equal to the
Slate of Virginia, and into this branch of the Le-
gislature, according to the census taken by her
own autborily. If such a claim can be mad^
there must be good authority for it. Till this
Dooming, he had not thought upon the subject;
but be had formed an opinion from the facts
which he bad looked into.
The first article on this subject waa the ordi-
nance of the old Government respectingthe North-
western Territory; by which it appeared that so
soon as there were 5,000 inhabitants, they were to
have a Qovernment of their own, and to form
their own Legislature, and that Legislature was
to send a Representative to that House on certain
conditions. It went to state certain principles,
which principles should be viewed and attended
The fifth article, the only one of cuDsiderable
importance, stated that the Territory should be
formed into not less than three, nor more than
five States. It goes on to say, that the boundary
shall be fixed, and that whenever any of the States
shall have 60,000 free inhabitantsi then they shall
be admitted into the Union on an eqiul footing
ich the original States. Who,accordiiig to this,
was to do the act which should furnitih the evi-
dence by which the claim should he tried, to come
in and act as an independent member of the
Union 1 If the Territory or Colony itself should
do it, then it was in her power, independent of all
the other States, to assert her claim to be a mem-
ber of the Union.
The ordinance provided also, that there shooU
neither be slaves not slavery tolerated in that
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF COKGRE68.
1908
H.OPR.]
AdutittioH of Temne—u.
fUAV, irOB-
Territory; (mt hi- fonnd there were slaves to a
Teiy considerable number there. The Dext pro-
eeediog idatire to this bosiness was, the set of
Congress of May 6, 1796; enacting that the Ter-
ritory Southwest of the nver Ohio should be one,
and should have a Governor and Council at>-
polnted. It seems that antecedent to their claim-
ing a riffht to become a State of the Union, they
should be declared a Stale by Conffress; becaase
without this declaration it would De difficalt to
say whether Ae Territory should be one or more
Stales. '
In the act of cession of North Carolina of this
Territory, a oamber of conditions were made ne-
cessary before the cession was to take place. One
condition was, that the Territory so ceded, shoald
be laid out and formed into a State or States.
Who was to do this? Congress.
He wonld obserTe, that this Territory might
exist in one or two States withont the cawicity nf
being admitted into the United States. Because
that division and co^rzance b^ the United Slates
lonsi precede the time of their elaimitig admis-
don to the same privileges and rank with the
other States. He therefore conceived it irapossi-
Me that this Territory, at any period antecedent
to the United States, declaring it a State or States,
should possess a right to become so. Congress
was to decide, and having made this decision, they
were then to become a member or members of
the Union, eqaally with the original States. Con-
eress woald^ of course, refer to the cession of
north Carolina to determine whether the Terri-
toiv should be divided or not; and if to be divi'
ded, into how many States 1 and if diis had been
done, then to ascertain the number of inTiabiiints,
and thereby determine whether they were enti-
tled or not to become a State or States of the
Union. The whole proceeding was to succeed
the decision of the Legislature of the United
States, and if this decision did not take place, they
Were not entitled.
The number of the people in the Territory to
Mititte them to become a State or States, must
be of hihabitutts. Bat he thongfat the obserra-
tions made by the gentleman from SonHi Caro-
lina [Mr. W. BbiithI with respect to the eenstis
which had been taken, were worthy of notice.
He did not impute bad intentiona to the persons
concerned ; bat frauds might take place, at le&st
mistakes wonld, in the plan adopted for taking
the censns. During the time this census wm
taken, was the season in which there waa the
greatest fiow of emigration into that cotmtrv ;
■nd, instead of directing the inhabitants, ther di-
rect the people, widiin the Territory, to be taken;
■nd instead of confining the censns to be taken on
■ certain day, they gsre it a lititode of two
months, BO tint the same loen might be taken in
■eVeml diSbrent eoonties; Indeed, k man mlsht
be taken upon every acre of laad in the Union.
Re did not sajr there were uy tmftit means naed;
be hoped there were not ; but the mode adt^ted
was certainly liable to objection. It was neces-
sary that everything in ttis bosinei* shotiM be
pmeelly tair, as the greatest abttses might here-
after be committed on the gromid of an improper
precedent. Why, if the people in this Territory
want to come into the Union, do they not eom[dy
with the necessary means 7 If they were to be
admitted on their present claim, it would not be
fMm your authority, but 9tom their own. We
aft to give them the same power and. ehancter
vrith the original Stales, because they ay tfaey
are entitled to that rank.
Mr. 8. asked whether this w«s right vA pro-
per, and whether the interest of the United
States wonld be safe, if they were to adopt smch «
practice? There were many vast tracts of le^
ritory belonging to the Union, aod many Stale*
might heredter be erected j and as it had already
been determined (hat a small State should liave
as great a representation as a latse one in one
branch of Oovemment, it behooved them to be
carefbl in admitting mrts of dieit Territory into
their Union, until they had due proof of their
being in every respect entitled. Neither oo^t
the request of a few persons lo be attended to ob
this head before a Stele w«s admitted ; it shooU
appear evident that the peofde in genenl wished
to change their suta, otherwise, whilst they wen
attending to the wishes of a few, they mi^t be
aeting oontrarv to those of the many.
Mr. 8. concluded by swing, that be hxd never
read ihe Constttntion of^ Tenwssee. no* coaai-
dered the sut^t HB that morning ; but thoi^ht
they ought not to depart from prmoi^ beeaoH
luestM to do so.
Madisom said, that no anwer was »ece»>
stry to the arnmeats of Ihe gentlemuB Ust i^
nor to thoee of the gentleman from Booth Can-
lina vrtio preceded him. If they provvd lay Aiaa,
[hey wonM go agannt themselves. He wooH
make a few observatian* on this (object, and a
few would be sufficient.
The gentleman {kka SAUth Cardina aeemed lo
think tlwt the ordinanoe by whkh this State
ihonld be adorilted into the UnioD, revuiivd that
the Territwy riKraU Sm he MbwwHdgMi m s
Bute, and then have the inbabiuatt rf it as snek
numbered mder the aMhonty of Oonmsa. He
thought this woaM be spinning aBaer URad Aam
was neceasary. and would give the |Mopk reaMB
to suppose, that the Oeneial Ch>vemm«et was
disMsed to keep them in their present oonditiim
as long as possible. If Ae Legialaian of tka
United States should he conviMcd that the Ter-
ritory OMtaiaed a lolleiefit nimbar of inhala-
tanes to ratitle them to admission into the UtwMt.
it was matter <it S»m only how the caisae had
been taken, or wheAer the Territory bad bacn
previously acknowledged as a Stale » Ceacicsa,
or not. The bet of pomilntion was me oaly «e-
cessary one. And woui no evidence mtiify ga»-
tlemea bat snob as they lh«ms«lvea shall duaetl
He shotdd have thoight that the pasai'
Aw Itw purpose, by iSe Provlaiaaal G
waaaaftasto the resdlt. !%« Ovn
appotated by CongrcsB, aari riia Iww haying Ua
ameat, and being axaeoted oAder hia diractMa.
gve the mwsvre Ae aaihoriir of the Uaiied
atss. Tbaivayyearad to him Bo jqsi yotmi
gofalnr
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
1310
Mat, r?96.]
Admitaitm of TenneMee.
for supposing the eenstts had not been fairly taken.
He would toake one obserTKtion, vhieb it ap-
peared to him iboald haTe some weight. If there
were (he atipniated number of inhabitants, that
Territory could not be denied it* claim of be-
coming B State of the Union without a violation
of right ; but, if the inhabitants requested it, and
Congreio pleased to admit them before ihey had
their full complement, the error could not be of
Another important eonsiderstion. The in-
habilanis of that district of country were at pre-
sent in a degraded situation; they were deprived
of ■ right eMentittl to ireemen — the right of be-
ing represeined in Congress. Laws were made
without iheir consent, or by their consent in port
onlr. An exterior power had authority over
their laws; an exterior authority appointed their
BxeentiTe. which was not analogons to the other
parts of ibe United SibIpj, nnd not justified by
anytbing hnt an obrions and imperious necessity.
He did not mean by this to censure the regula-
tions of their Provisional Government; but he
thought where there was doubt, Congress ou^ht
to lesn towards a decision which should give
equal rights to every part of the American people.
If there should he anr inHccntacy in adraitting
Atta into the Union before they posscsMd the
Ml number of inhabitants, it was only a fugitive
donsideration ; the great emigrations which take
TjJace to that country will soon -correct the error.
Bat he did not believe there could be any doubt
an the subject. He thought the evidence was suf-
fleieni and «alisfaetory. He would not go into
detail on the subject; for if the matter appeared
to the Committee as it appeared to him, they
wonid think there was no necessity fot it.
Mr. NiCBOLia. like the gentlemen who had
■poken against the admission of Tennessee, said
he would consider the rights of that country; that
he did not wish them to receive a favor of Con-
gress, nor did he think they had occasion to ask
ottt is their rights extended to everything they
wished, ff those gentlemeu would examine the
subject with him, they would find that they had
■t first only skimmed rt.
Ttaee objections have been made to the claims
«f thst country, which he would consider in order.
The int was, tiiat CcngreiQ must have deter-
nrined whether it should contain one or more
States before thev could assume the right of self-
gOTgrliment, or be admitted into the Union.—
Th9 second, that, after such determination, Con-
gnm must have ascertained, by a census, taken
twder its own authority that the Stale laid offhy
Ann, contained aixtv thousand fVee inhabitants.
I» the hst place, it is contended, that, if the Le-
gMatureor tfaateour
eLumermtion, the one
If h Wis considered that Uiete people claiiAed
ij the contract to become a part of the Union, it
will be tho^ht extremely imprabable that either
of the two first should hare oeeo considered as
Ac sreaninff of the contract. To atlpulate for
betiefita, atraat the same time to leave to the party
from whom ihey are extorted, the liberty to do,
do, what is necessary to give those h«ne-
put the attainment in great
hazard. If, for instance, the determination a
there being one or more States might be at any
'■ " made, it is competent for Congress to post-
pone such determination, and when they do de-
termine, they may divide the country m such
a manner as to preclude their inhabitants forever
from self-government or representation here. If
it depends alone on Congress to make the enu-
meration, they may delay this also, at their own
wiU, and defeat the rights of the other party.
To secure the objects the contract had in view,
it appears to be necessary, then, that some limita-
tion of time should be pot to the power of Con-
gress to divide that country into more States than
one ; and that, tar the sake of both parties, there
sfaonld be a mixed anthmity whieti should be
competent to do the acts necessary' for investing
that country with the stipulated rights. Neither
party could rely on the other doing it justice, it
the power was to be in the hands of one, there-
ftne it was extremely desirable that a power eom-
Sised of both interests should have tnis control,
aving made these observations, let us look into
the contract and the Oovemment of the country
for these requisites, and there it will be found that
diey inconiestably appear. The 11th article in
the act of cession of North Carolina is in these
l^t the tertjtcry ■» ceded, shall be laid out snd
ned hito ■ Stale or States, containing a snitsfale ex-
t of territory, the inhabilanU of wUcA, ihall enjoy
■U dte mivilege*, iMitelhs, and DdvantaKes. set Ibrth in
Ike ornaanM of the lata CongreM for nte govemiaMtt
of the WMtemTerriMy of Oe United eutei; thatlito
'benever the OoBgNH of the VaMBd SiMe* riidf
to be odkialr twwnimd t* *e Emntttve ati-
CongrsM ibsU,«tdM s ._, „
QM>t of the wd Tanitoiy, whkh they Aall to.
a mannn ■imilu to that which tbsy rappert in Um tsv
litwy West of the Ohtoi dull protect Um inhaliUBiiH
against snemiM, and ■hall never bar or deprive then of
any prinked, which the people of Um tertiloij WnI
of the Ohio enjoy," Ac
Here, then, it is clear, that the distiibatkn into
__ke or more Slates must have been made imraa
diately after the ceuioB. That the MiiH^titHMiiDr
the benefit of tempoiuy GovemmeBt are for tba
inhabitants of one or more States tberebr nukkiM
the dirision cotemporaneons with the TviittmA '
Government, and that imless a diviaioa was made .
in the cummencement of the temporary QoterB>
ment, it never could be made. If the contract
itselfhad not been so explicit, theTeftnacelothe
condilioa of the Territory Weat of the river Ohis
would require it ; for the disuibutiM! tX that Tot-
ritory, BO fiur a* it depended oa CoHgrsBs, ww
made in their said aot respecting that eoDntrT.
The spirit of the contract, the contnet itself, uk
its ktier and refereace to the state of anetber csaa-
try. required the diviaion to have been imioMlt-
ately loade, if at all ; and, if it has not been done,
;d by Go Ogle
BISTORT OF C0N0RE8S.
Admiuion of Tetme—ee.
[Mat, 1796.
It b a wairer of the right, and the coaotry muit
lemaia as ii is.
As to tbe power which is competent to make
the enumerBiion of the country, loere can be as
little doubt, on attending to the subject, accatdiog
to the ordinaoue referred to in tbe act of cession.
Theii Qorernment wa:i composed of a Gorernoc,
chosen by tbe PHEBtDEHT or the United States,
a Lesislalire Council, also of his appoiotioeDt, and
the Representatives of the people. To them, as
three distinct branches of legislation, was coa&ded
the government of tbe Territory, and no act could
be made without the concurrence of all three.
The ordinaoce does not say who shall ascertain
thefactpf there being sixty thousand free inhablt-
anis, but declares that, wbea that was the case,
they shall be entitled to form a (Government for
themselves, and be admitted into the Union. The
8uealioiii8,by whom the fact shouldbeascertaioed?
'a scheme was to be formed for an impartial exe-
cution of this contract, human ingenuity could not
deTise one more proper than that of their Qovern-
ment. The Governor and Council, under the
control of the United States — the people repre-
sented by auolher body. If tbe contract was to be
made anew, could any person object to l»ring
the power in question in tlieir haaas t With such
s composition, why should this be taken out of
their Legislative operations? It is to be remark-
ed, that when they are to entitle themselves to
representation in conseouence of having five thou-
sand free males, the oroinance requires that proof
should be made to the Governor. In the last stage
of their population, it prescribes nomode,naturany
supposing that it would devolve on the jJegislatuie
oithe country. It is certainly both reasonable
and a safe deposits of the power.
Tlie la w for taking the census has itself been the
fbaadatiou of objection i pMhapaitmightbeques-
tioiied how for we have a revision of (he law made
with consent of tbe Oorernment throveh another
channel, but it will afford good ground for refusing
iriiat they demand of as. It must naturally have
been productive of misrepresentation, to be lia-
Ue to objection. It is not to be presumed that a
fraudulent disposition would have discovered it
in the law. The execution of it afforded much
safer means of deceiving us. It is not to be be-
lieved that the law meant v^hat is imputed to it,
but there can be no doubt but the excess over the
requisite number is sufficient allowance for the
QoDJectured effect. At any rate, we hare a. dis-
cretion to admit them before they ^t to any cer-
tain state of population ; and considering the eir-
enmstances in which they will be thrown I have
no doubt, said he, but that they ought not now to
be admitted.
Hr. Blount^ said, he did not think it necessary
to reoly to the arguments of the gentlemen from
SonibCarolinaor Massachusetts, except what rela-
tad to the law directing tbe census to be taken. The
word "peojde" was used, as a more deBnite term
than inhabitant, because the inhabitants of that
country are almost always traveling. He would
sltow it to be possible that persons might be taken
in more tlum one place, bnt he believed that had
not been the case. It frequently happened that
BTsoDs waited several weeks at some idaee in
olston settlement,in order to get a com^ny suf-
ficient to pass the wilderness, and, if time had
not been given.many of those persons would have
been taken. If these things were taken into view,
it would be seen that the design was not, as had
been unfairly represented, to take persons in dif-
ferent parts of tbe Territory, but that aU the peo-
ple might be enumerated.
The genilemaii from South Carolina said they
had been very fortunate as to the number, so as
just to be entitled to two Reprcseuiatives ; but
that gentleman must know that the number of
free persons was upwards of sixty-six thotisand,
add thereto cbree-fifttuof upwards often thousand
slaves, which would make the whole number enti-
tled to a representation of seventy-two tbcasand.
Mr. B. said be did not think it necessary at that
stage of the business to make further observatioBs
upon the subject
Mr. HiLLHOCBE said, he was not hostile to these
people beicK admitted as a Stale of the UnitHi.
He wished they might be admitted. He should
wish, however, to have their boundary so settled
that there mlgnt hereafter be do dispute on that
head. He had oo idea of incorporating lands
within this State to which we had no right. We
ought not, he said, to extend this Territory any
further than the Indian line, and, when the title
of the Indians became extinct, as far as the Mis-
sissippi and North Carolina boundary; but he did
not wish to admit them as a State until their lim-
its were fixed. He said they had no right to find
fault with their Constitution, if it did not inter-
fere with the Government of the United States.
He did not think they should be divided; bat he
did not think there was any occasion for baste.
He thought they would have no room to com-
plain if tley were to admit them into the UnioD
as soon as their boundary could l>e settled. Some
information upon the subject was necessary: —
Northwestern and Southwestern TerriMlriei wore
100 indefinite expressions for assigning bonndarks.
Mr. FBANELin said, the boundary was well as-
certained. The State of North Carolina was dob
boundary, and in the act passed this session reb>
trade and intercourse with the Indian
tribes, the Indian boundary was settled. No one
would wish to so beyond the Indian lines, if they
did they would be liable to a forfeiture of their
lands. The boundaries were as well ascertained
as they could be, until a mathematiciaa should go
and mark them out specifically. They bad not
lost sight of it in the reserves in North Caroliiuu
It was there said all the unappropriated lands
should be reserved to tbe Uniiea States.
The Commitleerose, and hadlcave to sit again.
Fbidav, May 6.
RiCHARc Sphioo, Jr., from Maryland, took his
seat in the House, in the place of Mr. Duvaij, r-
signed.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mat, 1796.]
AdmUtirm of Tetmettee.
[H.o
A bill for the relief of Sylraaus Bourne was
twice read, and ordered to be eogrossed for a third
reading.
The bill making pro7isian for certain Debts of
the UDitedStates, was read a third lime and passed.
The blanks for the sum which the PRESinENT
was entitled to borrow on an irredeemable Loan
for a number of years, was filled up with Qve
millions.
The bill for repealing that rart of the act rela-
tive to the District Courts of Penosylyania being
held alternately at Philadelphia and Yorktown.
was read a third time and passed.
The House proceeded to consider the report of
the committee to whom was committed the bill,
sent from the Senate, entitled "An act to amend
an act, entitled 'An act to promote the progress of
Useful Arts, and to repeal the act heretofore made
for that purpose r" Wnereupon,
Ordered, That the said bill, tivelber with the
report thereupon, be recommit ted to Mr. Gris-
WOLD, Mr. Paob, Mr. Havbkb, Mr. Mdbrav, and
Mr. Bradbury ; that they do examine the matter
thereof, and report the same, with their opinion
thereupon, to tne House.
Mr. S. SuiTR laid a resolution, to the following
effect, upon the table :
" Setohed, That then ba allowed and paid, for the
Tear 1796, to the Beentariea of the Tieannr; and War
Deputmeiita, the Treasurer, Comptroller, Auditor, R»-
^ter, Puneynr, and Attorney Genenl, per cent.
on their reepactive aalariei, in addition thereto."
ADMISSION OF TENNESSEE.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole, on the report of the committee to
whom was referred the Message of the President,
relatiTe to the Territory of the United Slates
South of the river Ohio.
Mr. RoTHERFOBD hoped the Committee would
concur in the report. He had no idea of contining
that Territorv to the strict legal line. He did not
wish to cavil with this brave, generous people.
He would have them taken out of leading-strings,
as they were now able to stand alone ; it was time
to take them by the hand, and to say, we are glad
to see yon, stand on your own feel. We shoald
notj he said, be too nice about their taming out
tlteir toes, or other trifles; they will soon march
liutily alonff. They had complied with every re-
quisite for becoming a Stale of the Union — they
wished to form an additional star in the political
hemisphere of the United States — they have erect-
ed a Slate GoTernmeiit, and wish to come into
the Union, and to resist their claim would be out
of character. He hoped it would be agreed to.
Mr. Datton said, he disapproved of the report
of the committee, and of the terms in which the
resolution they had recommended for the adoption
of the House was expressed. He could never give
bis assent to any proposition which expressly ~
at their own mete will and pleasnre, and without
the declared consent of Congress, erect tbem-
aetves into a separate and independent State. Yet
this seemed to be the spirit of the report nndel
consideration, and what was still worse, it wen^
as he understood,^ renounce any right in Con-
gress even to deliberate whether they should be-
come a member of the Union. He was by no
means desirous of opposioeihe wishes of this vain*
able and enterprising people who inhabit the Soutb-
weatern Territory, nor of unnecessarily impeding
the efTorls they were making to throw off the Ter-
ritorial jurisdiction, and establish a system of Qo-
vernment for themselves; bnt being aware that
the steps now about to be taken would be regarded
and pursued hereafter as a urecedent, he conceived
it important that they should, in this first instance
of the sort that had presented itself, proceed cir-
cumspectly and rightly. He was wiAine to pass
a law in the present session which should at the
same lime provide for erecting and forming them
into a State, and for admitting them, as such into
the Union. They should thereby effeclually pro-
mole the views of the people of Tennessee, m a
mode which, by avoiditie the violation of any jtist
political principle, would entirely reconcile and
render consistent the interest of that district of
country and of the several United, States.
Mr. t>. acknowledged that he sliould have been
much belter satisfied if be had found all the people
comprehended within the Territorial line petition-
ing tor ibis measure, and if he had seen ingrafted
in their Constitution ihe conditions and restric-
tions contained in th^ ordinance upon which they
found the right they were claiming ; but he knew
thai unanimity was in no instance to be expected
amongst a people so numeroos and scattered ; and
he was convinced that they were bound by the
conditions and limitations he allnded to, without
ao acknowledgment and repetition of them in their
Mr. Deabborn said, as to the census relative to
representation, it appeared doubtful, that, because
thai Territory had now 66,000 inhabitants, they
were entitled lo two Representatives, as the other
Slates of the Union were represented according
to the number of inhabitants tney contained in the
year 1790. It might be doubtful whether they
should be entitled to an advantage which was not
allowed to other States. It had oeen his opinion
(and he saw no reasons lo change) that if this
Tenitory was admitted into the Union, it was not
entitled to more than one Representative; and
therefore it was not necessary to make another
census. As to passing a previons lawreecwnisiDg
the Territory as a State before it was admitted
into the Union, he did not think it necessary. They
say they are now a State, and surely Congrevs
would not say- to them, You shall not be a State,
or dictate lo them what sort ofa Coosiitntion they
shall have, provided it be Republican. The me-
thod taken for ascertaining their number of inhab-
itants, he thought, could not be objected to. He
saw no reason to prevent them from accepting the
Territory as a Stale of the Union : what number
of Representatives they were entitled to, would
turn upon another point.
As lo the boundary, it was a question of some
consequence howfar the district of a State should
.dbyGoogle
HiSTOjiT OF C(»«G»ra88.
B-ofR.]
AdmuMwn of Tamettw.
P>Ut, 1796.
extend. He betieved it would be proper to exclude
all that pari of the Teiriiory within the Indian
bouadary, and od that account it might be neces-
twjy to pass an act for the purpose. Bui he did
pot think it necessary (o scrutinize into the busi-
Sew so closely as some gentlemen seenied to ima'
S'ae. From the census, It appeared they had
im 60,000 to 70,000 inhabiuuts. They had taken
upon tnemselTes to form a State — had formed a
CoDstituiion, and declared ihey were a State ; and
it would not became Congress, on light grouod, to
■ay they were not a Slate. Besides, he could not
see the propriety of adopting any measure which
might tend to irritate (hem. Tbey formed an ex-
tensive frontier — were very far detached from the
Atlantic Slates. We should rather, he said, think
of conciliating than irritating ihem; and, though
they may not have precisely adhered to ine exact
line of propriety, in erery particular, it was ihe
duty of that House to receive them as a State of
the Union.
Mr. BuicNT said ibe House should hare deter-
mined upon this question long since, as the Go-
Ternraeot of T (leasee had a month ago gone iolo
operation. The people there bad chosen not only
their Stale officers, but their Senators, and per-
haps their Representalires. to come to Congress.
The Qorernor had, from time to time, informed
the Pbesideht op the Uhiteo Sta.teb of every
step taken towards the proposed change of govern-
ment. In July, he seni him a copy of the taw
dircctinx ibe census to be taken ; in November,
when the census was completed, he sent him a
copy of it, and a copv of his Proclunalion requir-
ing the people to elect members of Convention
for the purpose of forming a Constitution and Stale
Government ; and on the 19th of February he sent
him a copy of the Constitution, with notice that
on the 28lh of March, when the General Assem-
bly of the Stale of Tennessee would meet to act
on the Con«tilution, the temporary Government
would cease ; and this last information was, to his
knowledge, received on the 28tb of February —
forty days before it wascommunicated by thePng-
81D£NT to Congress, and eleven days aAer it must
gone mto operation.
What would be the consequence, said Mr. B.,
of refusing at this time, and under these circum-
stances, to receive this State into the Union 7 Did
gentlemen wish to re-establish a leinporary Ter-
ritorial Government there? If tbeydid,he believed
their wish would not easily be accomplished; for
the people.there believed, that in changing their
Government, ihey only exercised a right which
had been secured to ibem by a sacred compact;
and under that belief, ihey will be disposed to
defend it. That right was, in his opinion, recog-
nised by the Government of ihe United States,
when Mr. Wqcte was permitted to take his seat
in that House as the Representative of the Terri-
tory ; and from tbat circumslance ihev had reason
lo expect that 67,000 inhabitants would have enti-
tled them, without scruple, to be a member of the
Union. If the census was not a just one, or if
(here had been any fraud used in taking it, an
impeachment would lie against ibe Governor, wIul
upon his responsibility as an officer of the Umiied
States, Muctioned ihe law for taking it,aDd acted
under it after it was taken.
However the Committee might determine as to
the sufficiency of the census to ground a ratio of
representation upon, he thought it could not be
doubted but it was sufficient to prove a right to
form a Canstitution and State Governioenl, and
to claim admission as a Stale into the Union.
Mr. W. Lthan said the subject presented itself
in two points of view — as it related to (he Terri-
tory being admitted as a State into the Union, or
as giving them a rigbl to send members to Con-
gress. In his opinion, according to (he ordinance
of Congress, (hey had a clear right to be admitted
"•-■- ■-■- ihe Union ; for it was there said.
tbat when thev had 60.000 inhabitants, they should
' ' ' ' > mode is pointed out how it shall
but the Governor being expre:>sly
;n(illed.
%o'
mentioned in the case where 5,000 inhabitants
were to entitle them to a temporary Government,
be thougbt there could be no doubt but the same
way was to be observed with respect to their quali-
fication for becoming oneof the Statesof the Union,
This fact, he said, came futly ascertained, and
being go, there could be no doubt therigbt was
clear. It was a right, indeed, which Ihey could
not deny, and^ as a matter of expediency, it was
not worth while lo oppose it. He saw no reason
why ibey should call in question the proceeding
or the purity of the Government of that Terri-
tory, so as to doubt their return.
As to any particular expression in the resolu-
tioD, be ban no objection to have it altered i hut
he thought the resolution before them, or Rome-
thing like it, should be agreed to^ The new Go-
vernment was put into execution, and it would
produce ill eSects to oppose it. No evil woold
fromagreein " '
! great evils;
Mi. Daytom said tbat he preferred the fonua-
tion of the Southwestern Territory into one State,
to a division of it into two, and he therefore did
not agree with chose gentlemen who had advo-
cated the latter idea. The people had requested to
be united into one Slate, and he was for comply-
ing with their request, and for taking them attheu
word, rather than by subdividing to give them ■
double representation in the Senate. He would
not be understood as having said that he consi-
dered the census they bad caused to be taken a
proper one upon which to found the true raiioof
representation, but only as sufficient evidences to
justify Congress in passiui; the act which he ftfy-
posed, especially as (bey might be formed into a
State, even though their numbers did not amount
to 60.000. It would be necessary to direct by a
Legislative provision, and under similar resiric
tions and regulations to those prescribed for the
Slates on a like occasion, (he taking of a new
census, which may be done in season (o enable
(heir Representative (o take a seat at the next ses-
sion. He held in his hand a resoluticm whidi
.dbyGoogle
H»TORT OF CON6BS88.
1319
Mat, 1798.}
seemed to him auM pmyi for the CommiitM.t
adopt) and which he mm, in
], in the following word«,
" Baolved, Tint proririoQ ought to be made hj Uw
for erectijig' bdiI fonain^ into me State &t diiUict of
coun try called ' [he Tsnitorfaf^e United St«les8oiith
of ^B rivei Ohio,' uul Sn admitting it into the Union
u a member tl^nuf."
If this should be adopted b; the Committee of
the Whole, and aereed to in the House, a bill could
imroediately be Drought in and passed, without
delay, through the House of Representatives, and
probably through the Senate ; but the report under
coDiidentioD wa£ of a barren nature, rather calcu-
lated to be entered and to steep upon the Journals
than to produce any operative act, or to require
the concurrence of the Senate. Mr. D. said he
could not consent to go further than he had stated,
much leas admit that by tbeii own single aet they
h^d become a separate sovereignty; lor if such a
[vjuciplewas sanctioned, it was impossible to fore-
see all the consequences, and extent uf them. If
they were, as had Wen repre»ented,at this moment
on independent State, they might ofler or refuse
at pleaiuie to become a parly to this Confederacy,
or they might, in oBering lo eater into the Union,
aonez to £e offer such terms and conditions as
should give them advantages over the other States,
and they might even treat and ally thfemtelves
with any foreign Power. Although such an hos-
tile or meoacmg measure was not to be apprC'
hended on the part of a people so regardful of cneir
true inteieats as those in question were, yet what
security could there be for the prevalence of an
eauallyeood disiMsitidn through the whole extent
01 the other Territory in which ten new States had
bees contemplated, and in a part of which resided
many whose attacbment to another Government
was well known? The rule they were now about
to establish must operate in future as a guide, and
it needed no effort to believe that this coimtry
would on some future occasion, and that perhaps
not distant, lament the adoption of the prmciples
coDtained in the report.
Mr. Sedowiok concurred in opinion with the
geotleman from New Jersey, [Mr. Davtoh ;] and
if any gentleman understood nin to vy that he
did not wi^ the State of Tesnessee to be admit-
ted into the Union, it must have been on error,
for he had no such desire. But be was still per-
suaded that it was naver intended that that Ter-
ritory should have the power of settliw the way
by which ibey were to become one orthe inde-
pendent States.
What had been said by a gentleman from Vir-
ginia, [Mr. Ma m bom, J of their being in a degraded
situation, because controlled by laws which were
made by persons independent of them, would not
only apply to 60,000, but to six persons. The
faestioQ was whether they were in a situation
in which they could claim to be a State? If they
Were, they ourht to be admitied ; if not, they
ought not to be admitted. If the idea of the
gentleman from New Jersey was adopted, they
might be admitted at an early period. He had no
intended that these people should decide upon their
'Own situation, they ounht to do it in the way ob-
served in cases directed by the Constitution. Mr.S.
proposed two resolutions — one for laying out
territory into a State or States, and another for
directingacensUBof the inhabitants to be taken.
It appeared to bim tbit this was the way in
which the subject should be considered : they
should determine whether the Territory should be
in one or two States, and before Representatirea
were sent to Congresu, a census would be taken
by authority of Congress. Words could not, he
thought, have rendered more explicit the intention
of the contracting parties than the words of the
comiwcc; and all this might be done in time for
Representative to be sent to the next session of
Mr. Macon said the chief differences in the
opinions of ffentlemen arose upon a subject which
was not before the Committee, viz : the number
of Representatives to which this new State was
entitled in that House. The question before (he
Committee was on admitting lae Territory to be
a State of the Union. There appeared to him
only two things a« neceesary to be inquired into:
First, Was the new Oovemment Republican? It
appeared to him to be so. And, secondly, Were
there 60,000 inhabitaaU in the Territory 1 It ap-
peared to him there were ; and, if so, their admis-
sion as a Stale should not be considered as a gift,
but as a right. Their temporary Oovemmeut (by
only a Governor appointed by the Eie
of the General Qovernmenl, but also a Legislative
Council. To admit this Territory as a member
of the Union, appeared lobim as a matter of course.-
It also seemed as if the Executive was of that 0[na-
ion. The PBasmBNT having been duly informed
from lime to time with the ];»occediags of that
Territory towards being admitted into the Union,
if be hail thought theyliad been doing wrong, he
would have set them right. It was also his opin-
the way the present bad been taken. He thought
the subject aJT navigation was settled by the C^-
slttUtioD of the United Sutes i fhe waters in that
country would be under the same regulations with
all other waters in the Union, nor did he think
there was any thing in the Constitution of Ten-
oesaeewhichhadacontrary tendenoy. Itappeared
clearly to him that everything had been fairly
done.and that they bad a right toclaimanadmis-
uon as a member of the Union.
Mr. BALnwiN said, had he belonged to the Ter-
ritory South of the Ohio, he should probably have
been for pursning a different mode of conducting
this busioets, from that which it seems they have
thought proper to adopt. He should have thought
it desirable, a year or two ago, to have obtained
from Congress an act pointing out the mode of
takioK the census, and ascertaining the events on
which they were entitled to become a State. He
said Congress ought also, of their own B<;cord, to
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONOKESS.
1320
JdmtMton oj Tetautaee.
H-ofR.]
[Mat, 179&
have taken up that subject, and made those provi-
sions, though noi requested by the Territory ; and
it bad always been with surprise he had observed
that the first act for forming tbat Territory did not
contain those proTisions. He thoucbt, as to the
principle in this case there could be no doubt.
Whenever the event happened of their having
60,000 inhabitants, as pointed out by law, their right
to be a State toolt place. It was to depend entirely
on tbat contingency; 'when tbat was provedvto
hare taken place, tbey could not be debarred.
There having been no mode previously^ pointed
out for ascertaining this fact, only makes it more
difQcult for the Territory and for Congress to be
satisfied ofthe fact of their actually having so many
inhabitants, bat does not affect their rigbt. He
tbooghc it best for the Hou«e to proceed to exam-
ine their census and the evidence which they bad
thought proper to collect. and bring forward in their
own way. He was ready to allow tbat, for him-
self, be shotild eiamioe it more scrupulously than
he should have done, had it been taken under a
law of CoDgress. But he bad not understood many
objections had yet been made to it. Perhaps, on
further examination, it will be found fnlly satis-
bctory ; if so, they must be admitted to be a State
as a matter of right. They might have waited
longer, and attempted to have formed two States :
they have made their election of the other alter-
native. He thought it wise for Goneress to avail
itself of this opportunity of holding tnem to what
they have chosen, and thus prevent future difficul-
ties and misunderstandings.
As to the objection that there are several thingn
in the Constitution of Tennessee inconsistent with
the Constitution of the United States, and with
the ordinance for establishing the Territory, it is
well known that the Constitution of the United
States, and the compact under which the Territo-
ry was settled, will be paramouni, they can there-
fore bave no effect.
Mr. W. Smith raid he was glad to find the ob-
servations which he made yesterday in nome mea-
sure sanctioned to-day. He then recanitulated his
leading arguments. Tt was said yesterday by a gen-
tleman from Virginia, [Mr. MAnieoN,] that whilst
the people of the Territory remained m their Co-
lonial iiituatioa, they were in a state of degrada-
tion ; but, he would aak, at whose request tbey
became sot Look at their request in the year
1790, as expressed in the cession act. And yet, in
the course of a few years, without consulting Con-
gress, in consequence of a census taken by their
own authority, they proceed to erect themselves
into a Slate, create a new Government, and claim
to be admitted into the Union as matter of right.
Under tbeir former Cbvernment their memoer
was admitted to that House ; yet, whilst he holds
his seat under that Oovemment, tbey have ap-
pointed other members to represent them under
their new Government. The most regular way
would certainly have been to have transmitted
their request to Congress to be formed into a State.
Congress would then have passed a law for taking
a census, have fixed when the Territorial system
should ceaseand the StateGovemment commence.
He thought the buainew was of considerable
consequence, and he was sorry it was taken a^ in
so thin a House. There woula certainly arise m a
few years other new States in the Western coun-
try yet uninhabited, which might occasion con-
siderable difficulties. They mi^t make a ceasas
and say they had 60,000 inhabitants, when ihey
had not half that number. He did not wish to
keep tbe inhabitants ofthe Southwestern Territo-
ry out of the Union, bat he wished them to be ad-
mitted in a Constitutional mode.
Mr. Gallati!) was of opinion tbat tbe people
ofthe Southwestern Territory became ipertjffete
a State the moment tbey amounted to 60,000 fret
inhabitants, and that it crecame tbe duty of Con-
gress, as part of the origmal compact, to recog-
nise them as such, and to admit them into the
Union whenever tney had satisfactory proof of
the fact.
It was objected that, previons (o the proof
of that fact being given, it was necessary that
Congress should have laid out and formed that
Territory into one or more States, and that the
Sroof of tbeir number should have been given un-
er diicciion and by order of Congress, the peo-
ple not being competent to give the proof them-
Both those objections supposes a conslruclion
of the original compact between the people ol
of Congress of 1787,) which was inadmissible;
for it rendered that compact binding upon one par-
ty and nut upon the other. It is supposed thai
that ordinance, whose object it was to establisb
the principles of a free Oovemment, and to ascei-
tain a certainty of admission into tbe Union, hail
declared that the time when those people were to
enjoy that Government, and were to be admiited
as a member of the Union, depended not oo tbe
contingency of their having 60,000 free inhabi-
tsnts, but on certain previous acts of Congress —
in other words, on the sole will of Congress.
Either you must acknowledge that their admis-
sion depends solely bn the condition of the com-
Eel being fulfilled, to wit : their haviag the onm-
r required ; or you declare that it rests upon bq-
other act, which may be done or refnsed by the
other patty ; that Congress have the power, by
neglecting to lay them out into one or more States,
or by refusing to pass a law to take a census, io
keep them forever in their ColtMiial state. Nor
did the strictest interpretation of that contract
justify the construction given by tbe gentleman
from South Carolina ; for the only meaniog that
could consistently be given to the words, ''lay out
and form into one or more Statc^" was, that Con-
gress bad power to fix the boundaries of the Ter-
ritory or Territories tbat were to become & Stat'
or States. They could bave declared that thai
Territory should be one or two States; but if
they had neglected to do it, their omiasion could
not be plead against the inhabitants of Tennessee.
The power given by that claure to Congress was
merely to fix boundaries, and to choose tvbethet
there should be more than one Slate ; but if thej
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HISTOHY OF C0NGBES8,
Miv, ITSHi.]
Admiinon of Tenntmte.
[H.QPR.
had nol aiade use or thai power, there moat be
one Biate, aod its bouodsries were Hxedby theact
of cession, au ibst nothing reaHitiied Dotr fur Con-
gress to operate upon.
Triere wa:< noibiog in the ordinance of 1787
which forbade thepeoplegtTiagpriwfof theiruum-
ber, without any previous act of Goreromtrnt Oo
the contrary, in a case of b similar nature
the present, \o determine whether there were 5,000
free males, and whelhei, of course, the Territory
was entitled to a Colonial Legislature^ it was de-
clared that as soon asproof should be given of that
fact to the Governor, they should be entitled to
their new form of Government ; which exprfsiion
left to the people a full power to give the proof
tbemselvex. Me could hive wished, indeed, that
the c nsus had been taken under a law of Cun-
gres,^; but it must be remembered that the law of
the Territory ol Tennesiiee, under which the pre-
sent census had been takrn, was acquiesced in by
the Grovernment of the Union ; for upon that law
boib the Governor and Legislative Council of the
Territory, both chosen by the General Qovern-
ment, had a negative j in other words, that law
was our act as well as the act of the people of
Tennessee; for it had passed by the joint consent
of their and out Representatives. At all events,
the neglect of Congress in not passing a law
could not, in this case, nor in that of laying out
boundaries, be urged OS an argument against the
admission of those people, unless, indeed, we meant
to assume ihe imperious language ol a Mother
Country to her Colonies, iniiiean of that of the
Representatives of a ffee people to their fellow-
citizens.
The objections made to the Constitution ofTeu-
nessee were, if possible, still more frivolous. It
was said, that the omi:>sion in that inslrumeot oj
certain restrictions upon themselras, which made
part of the original compact of the ordinance of
1787. was a breach of i^al compucl. With as
mucn propriety could it be said ttiat the omission
m the CuDsiiiuliun of South Carolina, Pennsylva-
nia, Delaware, or Georgia, (all of which were so
formed after the adoption of the Federul Consti-
tution,) of those clauses of the Cooslilutioa of the
United Slates which imposed restrictions upon
the several States, was a breach of that Constitu-
tion; as if, in the latter ease, the Constitution of
the united Slates, and in the first, the Constitu-
tion and the ordinance of 1787, were lea? binding
because not inserted in the individual Constitution,
in the municipal law of the State.
The only question which, in his opinion, de-
served consideration was, whether the proof siven
to them that there were sixty thousand ioEabii-
ants, was satisfactory. It appeared tu him that
thcrewas3clau-'<ein theaettor taking the census,
relative in transient persons, which diHered from
that under which the census of the States had been
taken, and which was liable to abuse. As that
law, however, was acquiesced in by ourselves, the
question wa^, whether it had been actually nbusedj
whether there had been any fr^ud eoinniilted in
takioK the census. On ihislhevhad not a shadow of
proutT The census bore onits faceevery appearai
4lll Cox.— 43
■epre
>rcc
of fairness, and the number of inhabitants therein
returned so far exceeded sixty thoiuand, as fully
to compensate for any possible error or abase re-
sutiiDgfrDm the clans? he had alluded to. An-
other question, nol then before them, would aftei-
wards occur, relative to the number of Repre-
sentatives that State should be entitled to. He
would not now decide whether, in order to fix that
^iresenlaiion, a new census, under the direction
Congiess, would be necessary. This, however,
was not the question before them, and on the pre-
sent one be would vote in favor of the report of
the committee.
Mr. Blodht said, there was an absolute neces-
sity for Ihe clause which the gentleman last up
objected tu. Persons were daily coming to thai
Territory in great numbers. If the census had
been required to be taken in one day all the people
who had come into the Territory with intention
tu reside permanently there, could by no meana
have been numbered. It was not intended logLve
the officers power to take persons in more place*
than one, nor did he believe it bad been done. He
undertook to explain yesterday the reason why so
loDg a lime was given, but he seemed not to havs
been understood, which was, the difficulties at-
tending the pas.-<age of the wilJerness.
The eeuileman from Sjuth Carolina [Mr.
uith] had said, that his arguments of yesterday
id been to-day admitted. 11' the genllernan had
nposed that he had admitted them, be wan mis-
ken. That he might not continue under the
intake, he would inform him, that what he had
lied arEumenis, were, in his opinion, mere i^uib-
es, such as could only have been expectt'd Irmn
County Court lawyer, at the bar of a County
Court,
Mr. CoiT said, that as be had not heard it sug*
gested from any quarter that it would be eipedi-
eni to divide the Territory into two States, he did
not think it important to inquire into the powers
of Congress in that respect. It is declared b^ the
ordinance for the government of the Territory,
thai when there should be sixty thousand inhabit-
ants in any one of ibe Slates there they should be
admitted into the Union. If, then, it is not in con-
templation to divide the Territory into two States,
lonsidered that the right to be admiited wa«
iplete as soon as there was iiie requisite num-
ber within the whole Territory. But it appeared
to him, that on examining the census and the law
under which it was taken, they could not be con-
sidered as furnishing proof tliai there was that
number there. He did not pretend losaf that any
fraud had been committed in tbe execution of ihe
ul thelawitselfwaswholly defective. The
man might have been counted in sjeveral
counties, nay, in every county in the Territory,
and that without any fraud, but in strict compli-
ance with the law ; iwo montfaH having been al-
lowed for taking the enumeration, and it being
joined on the SheriETo of the several counties
include in their enumeration all persons wiibia
eir respective districts within that period.
The gentleman from North Carolina [Mr.
BlouhtJ seemed to imagine that it would liave
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HISTORT OF CONGRESB.
H.orR.]
boeo impraeticBble to have followed k mode simi-
|u to the ooe pointed out in the enumerslion htw
of tike United States, bnt he could not >ee the rea-
SOD. [He read the law.]
That affixed a panieuIaT day to which the end-
meration had reuitioD, tfaoUfch a. period of several
iBontha was allowed for taking it in. What had
iDducedthepeopleiniheSoutb western Territory to
adopt a different plan he could not ray ; but it was
omtaioly liable to abuse^ and the most faithful ex-
ecotion of it would furnish no proof of (heir num-
bers; be therefore conceived tnat the cenaua was
not to be relied on.
It appeared to bim. that the only question was,
whether they had such proof as it was reasonable
for Coni^ess to require, of the number of inhabit-
tDtsI Tbe ordinance said nothing about the
manner in which the proof should be made out.
The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Oalla-
Tih] bad referred to another part of the ordinance
to esiahlish a rule for this case. The ordinance
in the case alluded to, where proof was to be made
to the Gkivernor of a certain fact, had left it to
him to determine what proof was sufficient, and
he thooght most clearly, in this case, the proof
must be to the satisfaction of Cons^ss, to whom
it was to be made, and that it would be absurd to
suppose ibem bound to accept as satisfactory such
{a^f as the people in tbe Southwest Territory
were pleased to give.
Mr. SiTaBBAVES said, he felt every disposition
fhvorably to meet the wishes of the people of the
Southwestern Territory, and for a reason which
had been given, viz : tbat, as they were our fellow-
^tizeDR, it was desirable they should equally par-
ticipate with us in all tbe advantages of the Oene-
ral Qovernment, and sufler no longer than was
necessary the comparative humiliation of a Colo-
nial or Territorial adminiatration ; but, from ob-
TtoDS eonaiderations, he thought Jl highly impoit-
■nt that they should be admitted to the enjoyment
of these advantages only in conformity with the
promise made to them, and on the terms of tbe
compact entered into jointly b^ the United States
and by them. Two constructions of this compact
had been contended for; one,ihat aosoon as sixty
tkouaand free inhabitants should be collected with-
in the Territory, they should be entitled to a place
in tbe Union, asan independent State; theother, that
Ctmgresi should first lay off the Territory into one
or more State^ according to a just discretion, deSn-
ing the same ny bounds and limits; and that the
admission ot such States, thus defined, should take
place as their population respeetivel^r amounted
to the number of free inhabitants mentioned; that
is, that the sixty thoumnd inhabitants could not
claim admission into the Union, unless their num-
ber was comprised within a State whose Territo-
rial limits had been previously ascertained by an
act of the United States. He inclined to this lat-
ter construction, because it was conformable to
the letter, and, as he understood it, to the spirit of
the inMrument. By the act of cession of the State
of North Carolina, accepted by Congress, it is
provided that the ceded Territory should be laid
off into one or more Si4tes. an^ ibnt the people of
the Territory should be entitled to all the }>rivi-
leges secured to the inhabitants of the Territo^
Northwest of the Ohio, by the ordinance of 1737.
The extent of their privileges, therefoie. is to be
determined by this ordinance, which may he called
their charter. They have no other or greater
privileges than the inhabitants of the Nortnwest-
ern Territory; and it cannot be pretended that
these would be entitled to admission into tbe
Union as one State, so soon as their whole nnm-
ber shall amount to sixty thousaiid, because tbe
ordinance itself divides that country into three
separate and distinct States, each of which must
contain sixty thousand free inhabitants before it
can claim to be received. The actual circam-
stances and situatiomof the Southwestern Terri-
tory evinced the reasonableness and propriety of
this construction ; it is composed of two settle-
ments the Holston and tbe Mero districts, sepa-
rated from eaoh other by the Cumberland Moun-
tain and a wilderness of two hundred miles in
width, which has always been inhabited by the
Indians, and the soil and jurisdiction of which
hare been actually ceded to them by the United
States, by late Treaties; and by an examinatiofi
of the documents on the table it would appear, that
when, agreeably to the act of the Territorial Le-
gislature, the officers who took the census put to the
people of the Territory the question whether they
were desirous of admission into the Union 1 the in-
habitants of the Western or Mero district almost
universally answered in the negative. He would
not undertake positively to prontiunce on the inex-
pediency of forming the whole country into one
State; hut, under tbe circumstances which he had
stated, and until they should he satisfactorily ex-
plained to his mind, it did appear to him tbat the
interest and the wishes of that people required a
division of tbe Territory. It looked somewhat
absurd to connect under one permanent Ooveni-
ment, people serrated from each other by natural
barriers, by a distance of two hundred miles, and
bya foreign jurisdiction. They had been eoli^ by
gentlemen who knew the fact, that daring tbe
period of Indian hostility, the people emigrating
to the Mero district were obliged to stop five or
six weeks at the Eastern boundary of the wilder-
ness, until they could collect in companies or
caravans of sufficient number and force to pass in
safety ; the time of hostility may again return,
and even a state of peace with Indians is not a
state of such tranquility or security as to preclode
tbe necessity of caution and vigilance on the fron-
tiers. The people of the Western district seem
sensible of the inconvenience of an arrangement
so unnatural as tbe one proposed, and so lar as
their wishes can be collected from the documents
before the committee, iheydesire as yet to preserve
their connexion with us in its present mode, and
remain under the Territorial Oovernment.
But it had been said by bis colleague, [Mr.
Gallatin] that if this construction was the true
one, it was in tbe power of Congress forever to
keep ibis people out of the Union ; thatby neglect-
'-- or refusing to lay off tbe Territory into a
e or States, they might forever preclude its
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HISTORY OF COfNtmfiSS.
233^
Mat, 1796.]
Admution of Temuute.
[H.0
iahiibitants from admission into the QDvemmant,
let their numbere be erer solaige. Mr. B. on his
part, admitted, that if this abjection was fouDded,
It OQgbt to hare weioibt ; but nothing, he conceiv-
ed oonid b« mote ralucioits. la all compacts be-
tween a nation and a part of its citizens, ihe
physical power, it is true, resides with the nation,
and there is no other security for the other con-
tracting (tarty but the obligations of good faith
and the integrity of the GoreramenL In this
view, his colLeague'a objection would apply to
every possible contract to wbich the nation should
be a party ; even on his own construction of the
iulruioeni, a resolution or act of Coogress, of
some kind, is supposed to be necessary before the
people of the Southwestern Territory can be ad-
mitted to a share of the national representation j
by_ withbolding this act, be it what it may, Ihe
privilege could be defeated J and thus the objec-
tion may be retorted on the gentleman who uses
it. But admitting the obligation of tbe Govern-
ment to perform its engagements with fidelity,
and its disposition to do so, no such objection can
¥'0w out of a. fair construction of the compact,
he ordinance of 1787, and the act of 1790, hoth
direct that a State ot Siatesshall belaid off. This
mode of expression imposes an essential obliga-
tion on the United Slates; it does not leave them
authority to refuse; it gives a discretion only as
to the time and manner of laying off the coun-
try ; this discretion must necessarily be vested
somewhere, and it is placed where it cannot be
supposed that it will be abused.
There is, in truth, no such intention to delay,
on the part of the (ro^emment, whatever shall be
Decesasry to meet and to gratify the just wishes of
(he people of the Territory; the only dispute is
as to the mode of doing the business and of col-
lecting the evidence of the necessary facts. It is
one question whether the Qovernment or the
United States shall ascertain the existence of the
Kerequisites by a process of ita.own, executed un-
r its own authority, or whether it shall take
upon credit Ihe evidence furnished by the Terri-
torial Qovernmentl It is admitted on all hands,
that, to justify the claim of those people as a mat-
ter of right, 60,000 free inhabitants must inhabit
the Territory ; is there then satiibctorr proof that
there is thisnnmberaf inhabitants? It had been
contended by his colleague [Mr. GallatirJ that
the proof ought to be satisfactory, becanse it had
been ascertained by the same authority which, a»
to a purpose supposed to be analogous, had bean
pr«aeribed by the ordinance itself. By the provi-
sions of that insiTumeat, the adminstration of the
Teriitoiy was to be itrictly Colonial, by the Qo-
varnor and Judges, until there should be wittiinit
5,000 free male inhabitants of full age ; at which
period, the people were authorized to choose a
Territorial Legislature, and the proof of the ne-
cessary number was to be made to the Governor
of the Territory. Heocc it i« inferred, that proof
made to the Governor, and to his satisfaction,
irhich is suOicieai fur one change in the Govem-
mi'nt, ought to he held auflicient fur the other
uhuiigt* contemplated by the same ordinance. This<
inference, be contended, was inconect. 'the ef-
fect produced by the first change, acts <»ily upon
the people of the Territory ; it regulates only the
mode 01 enacting their internal municipal rMfula-
tiODs; it is an affair in which the United matea
have no interest, and no concern ; it was therefors
erfectly just that^he tvidence of the fact should
ascertained by the people who alone were to
be affected by it ; but to the consequences of the
second alteration in the Qovernment, tbe United
States are also a party, and a party essentially and
importantly interested. When the inhabitants of
that Territory claim an equal share in the admin-
istration of the Gienctal G«vernmeiii, it is certain-
ly reasonable that tbe General Government should
be satisfied, by means known to its Constitution,
of iheevidenceon which this claim is founded. Ac-
cordingly, ft repetition of the expression relied on
is carefully avoided in that part of the ordinance
which relates to the admission of the Territory
into the Union; this diSerence was certainly not
without a meaning ; and the true inference is that,
in the last case it was intended the census should
torial Government ; the census in tbe original
States is taken at the periods prescribed by the
Constitution, by the authority and by the oniceri
of the United States, and there can be no reason
for distinguishing the case of the Southwestern
Territory, or entitllog them to a representation
upon easier or more favorable terms.
But it had been contended by a gentleman from
Virginia, [Mr. Nicholab] that as the act f<» the
govetnment of this Territory did not divide it in-
ore Slates than one, as was done in the ordt-
e for the government of the Northwestern
Territory, it resulted that Congress had made their
election, had exercised the discretion given to the
United States by the act of cession, and by declin-
ing to lay it off mto several States nad established
' t Bs one. This conclusion could not be justified,
iiher by the words of the act.or by the example m;
the ordmance. The act is avowedly and express^
ly made for the purpose of temporary Qovern-
ment only ; and it was a fact of which the gentle-
man from Virginia needed not to be told by him,
that the division of the Northwestern Territory
by the ordinance of 1787, was aa yet incomplete,
and that its operation as to this purpose depend-
ed altogether on an act to be done, but not yet
, by the State which that eentleman repie*
d, to wit: a partial repeal oT their act of ce»-
Mr. S. said, he could not see where the
doubt resided. The cession of this Southwest-
n Territory, made by North Carolina and *c-
:pted by Congre^, directs, aa he had before ob-
rved, that the ceded country should be laid off
. one or more States. He asked if this had been
done? If It had not been done, did it not remain
to be done 1 The course was extremely clear ; a
State must he formed; and afterwards when tlMt
Slate shall contain 60,000 free inhabitants, and.
this fact shall be properly ascertained, it ihall be
received into the Union, and not before.
He did nut lliink thni [>■/ contending tor these
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. or R.I
principles, he ahoald materially delar >he grarifi-
eitioii of th^ wishei of tbesr people. He eeriain-
Ir dill not wi»h ii. Bat we are treading (m new
f round, and it ought to be cautiously explored.
1 admitting this country to a share in the Qea-
eral OoTernmeDt, we are formiog a precedent for
' inaiiy future cases, sod which may be hereafter
of the most important effect u*the national inier-
e*tii and hippiness ; it therefore brhoored ihrm
well to coDsidet' the snbjecl. By adopting the
mode su»ested by the gentleman from new Jer-
aey [Mr.DAyTonJortomething likeit, this Slate
miglit still be ominized iu time for a reprewnta-
tioD in the next Congress ; no onlrage would be
done to tbe provisions of the ordioance, and the
haiard of establishing a dangeroDS precedent
Woold be avoided.
Mr. Macon said, he shonld be as onwiilintr to
agree to the doctrine of the gentleman from New
Jersey, [Mr. Dattok] as be was anwitling to
agree io his. As to the people of this Territory
tttachiog ihemselres to any other nation, he
abould not have thought it could have been sag'
^sted. There was no more likelihood of their go-
ing over to any other GioTernment, than there
was of any other State doing the same thing.
Mr. Gallatin said, how ine resolution on the
table, or the doctrine he had asserted, supported
the idea that that Territory would have a right to
separate from the Union, he could not see, and be
■hould be glad to be informed. So far from it, his
opinion was that it' they were a State, they were
ai The same lime a member of tbe Union ; that
ibey could not exist an a State wiihout being one
of the United Slates. The only difference of opin-
ion was whether an act of Congre^ was necessa-
ry previous to their being recognised as such; and
il any doctrine could lead to the conclusion of the
Speaker, it was that of those genilemen who
thought that Congress muHt form them into a
Slate, sevpral monihs before they were admitted
into the Union. In that intermediary situation.
whilst declared a State and nm one of the United
Statei, they might, perhaps, claim, aa an indepen-
deui blaie, a righi to reject an aUmiiision in the
Union. But those consequencescould only flowfrom
the doctrine he was combatting ; the principle he
was supporting was that no previous act was ne-
cessary, that there could not be two acts upon the
subject ; but that one and the same act must re-
cognise them as a Slate and admit them in the
Mr. Harpeh said, it was for the roost part wise
to avoid tbe discussion of strict right, wnere con-
•iderations of expediency might furnish sufficient
grounds of decision. There were dou bis existing
as to the riehl of (he people of this Territory to
be admitted into the Union. He hud himself en-
tertained doubts on that subject, and he had heard
noihiog by which they could be removed. If
then, it should be found, that on principle; of ex-
pediency the House ought to gratify their wish ui
becominra State, why cnianele iiself in the di^-
eusaionof a djflicull and perplexing question of
■triciriirhtT He wished to avuiJ it, and to that
and, was desirous thai the reaoluiion proposed by
the gentleman from New Jersey should be adopt-
ed. That resolotion wotild attain the object, with-
out deciding any principle. When he had the
honor of addressiug the Committee before on Ihb
iubjecf, he had given it as his cpintun that the
people of this Trrriiory ought to be admitted in-
to the Union, not because ibey had a right lo it,
for that was doubtful, bat because tfaey wished iL
He was still of tbe nme opinion. As to tbe evi-
dence which they produced of tbeir numbers, he
still thought it liable to doubt ; and, while il wu
allowed on all hands that they had taken this evi-
dence without the least intention of giving rouoi
for abuse, yet, it being evident that abuse might
exist, it onght to be guarded againsL
In the law proposed to be passed, every regula-
tion necessary for estabtishing the principles on
which Slates should hereafter be admitted into
the Union, might be included. By this method
all difficulties might be avoided. and the reasonable
wishes of the people in that part of the country
might be gratified, without a violation of any
principle, or tbe discussion of any doubtful qaes-
tion. He should, therefore, vole against the reso-
lution of the select committee, in order, if it were
rejected, to Introduce that proposed by the gcnilc-
man from New Jersey, which be thought calcula-
ted to attain, in a les> exceptionable and more d'-
feclual manner, the same desirable end.
Mr.BLODifT hoped tbe original resolutiim would
not be rejected for the sake of the gentleman from
New Jersey^. He did not wish to give gp tbe
right to which these people were entitled ; though
perhaps the law might not pass the Senate.
Mr. Harper objected to the mention of the Se-
nate, H9 to what was likely to be done there. He
boped they should adopt the resolution of the
gentleman from New Jersey.
Tlie questioi wa» then taken on the original
resolution reported by the select commitie , and
carried by 41 to 35.
The Coramiitee rose and the House took op the
consideration, when Mr. Eitchell proposed n
resolution in (he place of that which bad been
agreed to in a Committee of the Whole, as he
thought some law rhonld be passed by CoofrreM
recognising the Territory as a State, nefore they
were admitted into the Union. It was nentived;
and the original resolution wataereed to by 43 to
30, tu follows:
YaAS.— ^Theodonu Bsiiey, Atnafaam BaMwin, Da-
vid Bud, Leuoel Benhm, Tbooua Blonnt, RkJteid
Brent, Nathui Biyan, Danpaey Boigca, Thaam C3ai-
bonie, John CloplMi, JsTKniah Crabb, Wiiliani nnd-
ley, Jmw FtanUin, Albeit Oallaliii, William B. Gilea,
James (jiUespia, Andrew Ongg, Wade Hampton,
liobert Goodloe Hwper, Carter B. HuriMtn, Jonathan
N. Havens, Daniel Heiiter, Jsmca Holluid, (ieorKc
jKckion, Matthen Locke, Williun Lyaian, SsniDel Ma-
day, A'sthanicI Macon, James Madismi, Andrew Moere,
Naik. — Benjamin Boame, Theophilu* Biadbnryi
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13^9
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
Mat. 17W.]
Inertaae of Salariri.
fH.oi-R.
Oabriel Chnitie, Joihua Coil, Geor;- Dent, Abid F<w-
ter, Dtrigbt Foster, Eukid ffilbxTt, Haaij Oleu,
ChiDncej Goodrich, Ro-cr Gmwold, Tbomu Hartiej,
Tbomu Hmdenon, Junes HUlhoiua, Wto. JHindman,
Aaran Kitcfaell. Gem^ Lronird. Saniael l.ymui.Fran-
eia Mtibone, Theoitora 8«dgwtck, Samuel SilgiMvca,
JeKmiab Smilh, Nathaniel telth, liaac SmiSi, Wil-
Inm Smith, GoorBe Thalcher, Uriah Tiain, John E.
Van AUen, P«le|: Widnrorlh, and John WiUiama.
Saturday, May 7.
EB^rewDted resol
lion from HuDlmgdoQ couaty.
Treaty. Biime deoate Cook place upon the pro-
piieiy of receiving ihe molutioDfi, on account ot
their being said lo contain a cennure on ihe pro-
ceeding uf that HoDsej they were read, the wnse
of the House wa> taken, anil they were rejected.
The petition was then laid upon the [able.
The bill for the relief of SyUanua Bourne w»e
read a (bird time and psiMed.
A bill to regulate cornpeoaalion to clerki, anil a
bill lo regulale quarantiae, were twice read and
referred lo a Commillee of the Whole.
Mr. 8. Smith laid a resolution upon (he table,
putting all nations upon ihe same footing, with
rpspeet to the Helling of resseb and goods within
tfae porta of the Uniied States, by recommending
it to be enacted, loat DO nation shall be allowed
in futnre lo seii their piizea within the United
Stales.
A messase was received from the Senate with
the bill authorizing the sale oflaods Northwest of
the river Ohio, with several amendments thereto.
The amendments were read and relerieJ to a se-
lect committee.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole upon the bill for kying certain duties
on carriages and for repealing a former act for the
same purpose, which being gone through, the
House tooK it up, and it was ordered to be engross-
ed fur a third reading.
Mr. SiTGRCAVES, from (he committee to whom
was referred the memorial of certain creditors of
Ihe French Republic, re'-idiog in Philadelphia,
reported that they found the ejicnt of the claims
of the memorialists sufGcienl to entitle thecn to
the interference of CiJngress; hut. as the sessiou
was drawing to a cloae, the select committee
wished to be discharged from further considera-
tion of Ihe raem'orial, and that it might be refer-
red to the Secretary of State, to report thereon,
at the next session of Congress. The report was
twice read and agreed- to.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole, on the hill for authoriziag Ebenezer
Zane ro locate certain lands Northwest of the
river Ohio. After some debate thereon, in order
to give lime for making some inquiries on the
aubjecl, the Cominiuee rose, and bad leave to ait
again.
MoifDAT, May 9.
Mr. W. Lyman, from tbecommittee kppoiated
to take into cuosideratioa the aituatioD of fortifi-
cations and harbors &c., of the United Slates,
mate a report; which was twice read and referred
to a Commitlee of the Whole.
Mr. Mdbbat presented a petition from Harri-
son and Sterrett of Philadelphia, in behalf of
James Swan, of Boston, respecting a bill of ex-
change for 120,000 dollars, drawn on Dellar, Swan
aad Co., of Par.s, which bad been transmitted by
the Secretary of ibe Treasurv.at Philadelphia, to
Mr. Monroe, ihe American Minisier at Paris, who
was to transmit the amount when received to ihe
banker of the United Slates at Amsterdam, which
sum had been duly paid to Mr.Monroe, but which
(he Secretary of lie Trea.-ury here refused to pay,
uniil he had information of the amount being re-
ceived at Amsterdam ; the memorialists pray re-
lief of Congress. The petition was referred 10
the Commillee of Claims.
The bill layibg certain duties on -^arriageii, and
for repealing the former act for that purpose was
read a third lime, the blanks filled up, and pass-
ed. [Coaches which beforepaid ten dollars a year
are advanced to dfieen; chariots, from eight to
twelve ; coaches with Moneis, ""rbm six to nine ;
coaches without paooefs, (a dew;r;ption not in Ihe
lormer law.) j>ix dollars; curricles, chairs, Ac-
advanced from two to three dollara; Iwo-wheeled
carriages, of an inferior kind, advanced from one
to two dollars a year.]
Mr. Bourne reported a bill for altering ihe
Circuit Courts in Vermont and Rhode Island;
which was Iwice read, and ordered lo be engross-
ed for a third reading.
Mr. OooDHiiE made a report respecting an in-
crease of ihe i^lary of ihe Accountant Qeneral ;
which was laid upon the table.
fflCREASE OP SALABIEB.
Mr. S. SuiTH called up the resolution laid upon
the ubie, respectine an increase of salaries of cer-
tain public officers Tor the year 1796.
Mr. Maook objected to passing this resolution
at the present time. If it was necessary the sala-
ries should be advanced.it should be done in a
full House. He believed the officers uf the Fed-
eral Government were better paid than the offi-
cers of the State Governments. Ha should wish
the subject to be postponed until ibe next session
of Congress.
Mr. S. Smith thought it was necessary lo at-
tend to ihe subject at preseol. He staled what
the salaries were at present. The Secretary of
State and the Secretary of the Treasury bad each
$3,500; the Secretary of War $3,000; theComp-
troller $3,650 i the Auditor, Treasurer, and Com-
misaioner ot Revenue, each $3,400; ihe Register
$2.000 ; the Attorney Oeoeral $1,900 ; and the
Purveyor $2,000. Oeotlcmea must know that
the advance of house-tent and living werti vast-
ly increased since the settlement of th« above
salaries. Any of these officers must pay from
$600 to $t,0DO for rent alone; they knew preitf
well what the expense of living was el present in
Philadelphia, tcai must see that ii was impoaaibl*
that their officers coald live upon the above aoma.
If they hare no foriunes of their own, they mmt
;dbvG00gle
^331
HISTOBT OF CONGB^^B.
19S9
B.orR.]
' hcreoie of Salariea.
[Mat, 1796.
_ 1, tfiose who do not think the salaries
cient may resiga, and others coutd begot. He
iMliered persons might be got to supply the places
of any gentlemen who mi^ht resign; but, before
they Dad been long in their situations, ihey would
find the eipeose of living so much ^ealer than
they expected, that they would find it neeessary
to resign. None of the public officers were per-
mitted to engage in any business except the At-
tomev Qeneral, and the duties of bis office almoc
wholly employed him.
He was acquaintad with the expenses of livinj
at Baltimore. He found hia expenses eiceede<
anything contemplated to the highest officer bj
this bill, and he was not an estrayagant man
Gentlemen accustomed to Kve on their own farms
were not judges 6T the expense of living in a city.
Was it not degradinz, he said, that their officers,
who were in tne habit of receiving civilities from
citizens and foreigners, had it not in their power
to return them ?
^ete was not an officer who could afford to
keep a horse out of his salary. He felt it neces-
iaryto apologize to those gentlemen for thus speak-
ing; bat every one must see what he asserted
was true. He hoped we would not expect that
Entlemen, whilst doing the business of the pub-
, should spend their private fortunes. When
the price of living sbotild be lowered, the advance
which, was now proposed upon tneir salaries
ironld discontinue, or it would be observed that
the bill was for the present year only. The
sentleman from North Carolina objected to the
DDsinest being taken op at the present late period
of Ae session. He must recollect that something
of the sort had been brought forward at its com-
mencement, without Hiecew. The necessity of
the advance must b« so ajiparent, that he trusted
dim vrould be an unanimous vote upim the oc-
ISi. Nicholas waa not against advancing the
salaries of their ofBcert, if necessary; but if he
thought it necessary, he would bef^in with those
officers who received the least, with men who
had equal labor, but who did not receive half the
money. He had had some experience of the price
of Ilvme in Philadelphia, and from what he had
, been able to do with six dollars a day, he thought
a family might live genteelly and comfortably on
ten. If these, then, were extremely expensive
times, and ten dollars a day would maintain a fa-
mily, why increase the salaries of those officers
who had already that sum 1 As to a temporary
or permanent advance, he looked upon it as the
nine thing ; for, a salary once being given, was
anflleieitt reason for continuing it. He voted
■gainst the fbrmer proposition tor the same pur-
IHMe, and he shotild vote against this.
■ Mr- W. Ltbcan said, if the resolution went no
tetter than its proposed object, it would not have
been worth taking up the time of the House to
kppoae ft; but it must be obvious, that if the reso-
t^qoB shindd pass, it held out an invitaiim to
airary officer in pabllc employ, from the highest
M the lowest ^rade, to come forward for addition-
t^l compensation. TJieir application might be
supported with the same reasons and argument —
the enhanced price of living, or ihe reduced value
of tooney. They were inifiscriminaielj aj^ca-
ble to every part of the Untied Slates. Were
gentlemen really to loeet ihe question upon thb
extensive ground, andio say that every officer of
QovernmenI, whether civil or military, shoulid
have an addttiooaJ allowaace? He presumed not.
It was true, he said, that articles of living were
much enhanced in their price, but this was only
a temporary effect incidental to the war in Europe,
which would probably terminate in a little time,
and the effect would cease with its cause. The
members of the Legislatu re, the present session, fix-
ing their own compensation, had not been influ-
enced by any temporary considerations ; there had
not been even awish expressed by one membei that
their payshould be raised ;somegentlemen, indeed,
had signified desires it might be reduced from six to
four dollars a day. Alter this disinierested exam-
ple themselves, the House could, with a good
grace, refuse to raise the salaries of their officers.
If some of them made sacrifices to the public, the
members ofthe Legislaiare did the same. If it
was patriotic in one case, it was equally so in ihe
other ; but whether it was necessary to make
higher compensation or uot, the question ought
not to be lalien up partially, bi)t generally ; for
no geqtleman had suggested that the ratio here-
tofore established, was improper and inadequate;
not one argument had been offered from that
source. Mr. L>, therefore, hoped the reaolntion
would not be agreed to. It appeared to him to
partake too much of local aifection and regard,
and too little of the generality of consideration
with which a Legislative body should always be
actuated. He was prepared for it with his n«^-
live, and trusted that, tf it should pass the House,
it would not be equally successful, on a further
revision of the subject, in the Senate.
Mr. GoODKOB said, they ought not to compare
the' officers of Government with themselves ; be-
cause they make sacrifices of their iodirtdual in-
terests for the public good, it was no rule their
officers should do so. There was a certain de-
See of honor and patriotism which was dearer to
em than any pecuniary pay; but their officers
otigbt to be paid the full vslue of their services.
They might drive them out of office, and he douht>
ed not they misht find others to fill them; hut if
they did not offer sufficient compensations to theii
officers to invite persons of ability from distant
parts ofthe Union, their offices would all of them
be filled with Philadelphia us. Not one of their
officers could do more than barely live, so that if
any of them have families they will not be able
to save anything for their children. This held
out poor encouragement to men of talents to en-
gage themselves in the service ofthe public.
Mr. Heath spoke in favor ofthe resolution.
Mr.'QiLEa said, he should vote for the resola-
tion, not because our Government would be de-
stroyed if the salaries of oiir officers were not ad-
vanced ; he believed our Goreromenl stood npoi
a moch firmer basis than gentlemen would hnre
.dbyGoogle
1834
HISTORY OF CONGB£SS.
Mat, 1796.]
Increaie of Saiariet.
[H.orB.
it supposed. He thought tikis erf of disscdution
of GoTernmeat was carried lo a ridiculous height.
He should vote for the resolution, because there
had been « considerable increase in the price of
liring, and because be supposed when the sums
irere orisinailv given, they were not more than
leasoBHble. He should, therefore, for that simple
reason, rote for it. Not because any pirticnlar
gentleman intended to resign if his salary was
not advanced} because, if any of their (dScer«
chose to resign, he doubted not they should
be able to supply their place with men of equal
Talue. He did not tike ihe form of the resolu-
tion. He did noi like the per cenuiio rate. It
"Was his opinion lhe'prapo>ition was not just. He
thought the Atlomey Qeoeral, for instance, had
not sufficient salary. It was true, he was allowed
to practice, but his office allowed him hot little
leisure for other business, and his duties wece
.continually on the increase. He wished, there-
fore, thai a specific sum should be given to ciich
Mr. GALL.1.T1K said, the reason aUeged for
the proposed increase in salaries, waK the in-
creassd expense ot living in this city. If this was
true with respect to the officers here mentioned,
it was true with respect to all. Then why was
the provision made for these pariiculaf oSiceis,
»od not for others] They were all equally enti'
tied to the advance, unless it was said the o^ers
were in establishments less expensive. He moved
as amendment to this effect: "and all the offi-
cers of Government whose duties ^eqaiis them
to live in PhiUdelphia."
Mr. S. Smith said, when he submitted the re-
solution to the conaideration of the House, he had
the same views with the gentleman Wt up, and
he believed he bad included every one. The Ac-
countant General was meant to be provided for
■pecially. Hedid not know of any other public offi-
cer but the Postmastw GeneraL The salaries of
the clerks had been raised from time to time.
Mr. Muaa^T said, he did not know but that the
officers of Qovernmeot in large cities geuerally,
had occasion for an advance in their salaries;
yet, certainly there weie many considerations re-
■pecttng the Heads of DeparUnenti, who were
oUiged to reside her^ that did not apidy to iofe-
tioc officeo io other u^e citiea. The Heads of
DepartmeatB are to be Qonsid^ed, a* they really
are, an administrative jjart of the Government.
Much, he thought, of the respectability of Goveru-
tnent Itself depended upon the manner, mode of
life, and general deportuent of those who admin-
istered it. The world ww not a philosopher, it
regulated much of its respect by exterior ap
pcaraDces, and to insure that to a certain degree,
It wai uecenary to citable the great officeiBtttad-
misistraticin to appear with reqieetability in the
-wwU's eje, without forciAg them to rain tiieia-
■elvea by intrenchaMDti unon their pdvate tor-
ttmca, at the period whea, by the IthtHnon* duties
impowd, as wall as b]r l^gal testninta, they are
prerentM from engaging in other aiodMofin-
diulry. When you en|pig« for labor, for ttUots,
■a4 iategrifi** W*t ]r«iJhsal4 jwy (t>c wages
of labor without sTudgtug. But, in fact, there is
not a Head of a Depariment who could not, by a.
devotion of his talents and weight of reputation
in privUe industry, imure to his family dtaiblff
the income thai the scanty spirit of Government
allots him. It may be asked, why do they ac-
cept 1 A generous ambition to do great servicea
was a passion to which, he believe^ we were in-
debted for the acceptance of aoy high office under
OUT Goremment. This was a passion natural to-
better minds. This House should take care that
tbis passion should not ruin those who feel it, and
exert it in the public cause. To permit this, would
be a sort of seduction. The United States hare
at present able and honest men in the administr^-
tion; such, and such only, ought to be kept there;
but they should fiad it a situation which, as fa-
thers o/ families, it should not be imprudent to
keep. For his part, he .thought it almost impoa-
sible to attract talents and integrity into a O9-
vernment like ours, at too high a pecuniary price.
They ought to be invited, not repelled.
Mr. Macon consideredau agreement to the pro-
position before them, as the beginning gf an ad-
vance of salaries of Governmental officers from
one end of the Continent to the other. As the
House had refused to go into this business when
brought before them early in the session, he hoped
they would now do so. If such a regulation was
E roper at any time, it was then proper. Nor did
e think there was any more reason to advanot
the salaries of their offices in Philadelphia than .
there was for the advancmeat of salaries in everf
large city in the Union.
Mr. GiLBt was inclined to favor the resolution
uader discusaioD ; but if the vote was to be taken
upon the principles of the gentleman last up, he
should oppoee it. He did oot think the high wa-
ges ofjheofficersof our Government was to make,
it respectable ; for, if it was to be respeoiaUe in
Eroporiion as it was expensive, it was far behind-
and when compared with the Govcrnmeuts of
Europej therefore, if expensive salariea could
alone make make our Government reapectaUe,
be believedwehad better for«so that reapectability.
There was another principle which ha olijecled
to, that they were to make provision for the chil-
dren of their officers. He wished to vote for the
resolution upon the principle of justice, and npmi
DO other ; but if the reapectabtlity of our Oovena-
meiu, or fortimes for the children of onr officer*
were to be considered, he should Vole against it.
He was not willing to give more for Ihe transact-
ing of any business than it was really wcxth. To
what extent would such a doctrine go 1 'Hie ar-
Bimeot would be just aa |[ood next yearas ihiai
0 gentleman woiUd be sallied with a amaU d^
gree of reepectabiliiy. He wished, if anrincreaaa
of salary were to tan place, it sbtwld oe on th«
ground of the increased yrice of prorisioM.
was a difference betwixt lAcers redding in Nmr
York, Bostwi, Baltimote, Ac, and thoH r^ndii^
at Ihe seat of Oovenunent The former mM
with their fiioada,but the latter had ^oiiwi thtir,
homM and Mitgaeted themaclVM to a ntj ttpw
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
<.]
hcreoMt nf Salan'e*.
[Mil
«ire liviDK in Philadelphia. He thought (here
'was a wide difference between them.
Mr. Macon said, if the doctrine of the gentle-
naa %as true, it would only relare to part of ihe
ofGcerB.
Mr, S. Smith said, eren ths weigh-ioasier in
Baltimore had a higher salarf than any officer in
the Federal Oovernraem.
The arnendroent was Qesatired.
The Postmaster QeueraTwab moTcd to be ad-
t tbe words per
Mr. CoHisTiB was in fsTor of the motioD. He
did not think the salaries equally apportioned.
Mr. FiNDLET did not know that they had now
time to go into the subject of equaliziiig the sala-
lies of their officers. He ehould, however, be for
fltrikjnc' out the per ceuiage. He nould huve
^eir officers paid well but not exiravagantly.
Mr. SwAHwicK was rather in faTor of the reso-
lution; yet, as this was to be only a temporary
consideration, he would submit it to gentlemeo
>rtiether it would not be better to preserve the
plan of so much per cent, on the present salaries.
He thought it would have Icks the appearance of
permanency. They were not about to go into an
inquiry how far the salary of each officer was ap-
portioned to his lerTices, but merely to make an
allowance for the present year on account of the
adnnced price of living ; and he thought, on that
acconnt, the per centum plan the best.
Mr. HfiRTLET said the gentleman from North
Carolina [Mr. Macon] bad asserted it was indif-
ferent to him from what part of tbe Union per-
aons came who filled the offices uf CJIoiernmeDU
He wished every gentleman could sny so. When
the salaries of the offices were settled, tbe men
who were tu fill them were not koowo. and there-
fore, they were settled according to what they
were really thought to be worth; out, if they tooK
the mode proposed by the gentleman from Vir-
ginia, it would be next to impossible to avoid fa-
Torilism, besides that, a review of ait the salaries
would require lime. In appointing their officers,
the Pbebident bad been as impartial as possible;
ke had endeavored to select them ft'om every part
of the Union; but if the salaries were not in-
creased, persons who reside in Philadelpbia, and
have their friends about them, must be chosen
and if so, he hoped gentlemen would nut com
tlain that tbe Slate of Pennsylvania was tot
ighly favored. He hoped the resulntioa would
be retained in its present form.
Mr. Venasle said, he should be opposed to the
pet centum plan ; for the salaries being at preneni
out of DTOportion, it would increase that differ-
eaee wnich was already too great. If it was
merely an increase on account of tbe incre
price of living, let a speciBc sam be added to
salary for the present year, and the salary w
then stand at Betbre. He could not rote for the
per ceitt. advance, but would support an equitable
addition.
Ur. nHRiBTiB spoke to tbe same effect.
Hr. BiToaaATiB wished the per centam to be
k out, to vote foribe general principle of an
nee, and afterwards determine upon the best
method of doing it; it was of importance that
the ririoripte should be settled.
Tne motion wis put and carried.
Mr. SiTGREATEB Continued his observations.
He said, if there wns any one principle apon
which his mind reposed its.'lf with more than
ordinary certainty of conviction, it was, that the
real interest of the country, and the truest econo-
my consisted in the allownnce ol, not merely ade-
quate compensations to their public officers. He
certainly hoped, therefore, tlial the reKolulion
would jirevail. If the members had felt scruples
about advancing their own wages — and he bad no
hesitation in saying, he did not think they had
allowed themselves enough, nor did he wish to
shrink from the responsibility attached to this
opinion — he hoped they would not suffer this
delicaev, which, when applied to themselves,
might be amiable, to influence their decisions on
the compensation!! oi others, or operate to prevent
a reasonable addition to the established salaries of
tbe other departments.
It had been said, that the respectabiliy of Gov-
ernment was not all connected with, or dependant
on The allowance made fur the services of its offi-
cers. He could not concur in this sentiment. He
believed that no Governraenl could be respectable
which was not respectably administered ; and the
re.'^pectabilitv of the admrnistrntion certainly de-
pended on the employment of men of cimpelent
talents and information; these could not ne ob-
tained bnl by holding out encouragement to tem]H
them to engage in the public service. If genlle-
men ''an derive more income from pursuits of
private cccopations, they wi)l be induced by the
most powerful motive of burvan conduct to give
such a direction to their industry and abilities;
there was something in the honor of public sta-
tions, gratifying.it is true, to ambitious miods;
and which will nave its estimation with men of
a certain disposition ; but this honor may be rated
loo high ; and care should he taken, lesi, hr creat-
ing too great difference between the emoluments
of public, and the gain of private life, men of
superior acquirements should be discouraged frtmt
devoting them to the service of their cuantrr.
These observations, he thought, were peculiarly
applicable to the persons rei^uisite to nil bisfaer
departments. He did noMhrnb the pay of these
officers should be measured by the mere labor of
their employments; but should be proportioned
to the knowledge, the skill necessary for thead-
ministration of such important trusts; and above
all, to the responsibility of their official situation.
All things considered, and in order to allure men
of talents to the public serriee, he hoped these
sentiments would he generally concurred in; they
were his, and he desired to bear hii testimony ai
solemnly as the occasion would pennit.
Mr. W. Shttb said, that as long ago a.t the
year 1787, when tbe expense of living ma not
half as high as at present, and when the finance)
of Qovernment were considerably deranged, ai>d
Congress thought it neee«iry to make n serioai
lyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Mat, 1796.]
Inereeue of Salariet.
reduclioii of expense wherever it could be done,
yet thejr would find, that the snlary of the Secre-
tary of' the depattmeot for Foreign Affairs was
the same as now. [Mr. S. read hh ejtract from
the J.JurnaU of 1787 jo corroborate his assertion.]
Thisi
o show the neceitsity
elfauffici
It present.
Mr. FiNPLET said, there was a difficulty, if
they did nut eitend the adTsace to all their offi-
cers, where to draw the Lne.
The question on the resolution was put and car-
ried, there being fiftr-Sve memben in laror of it.
The Committee inen rose, and the House took
Dp the consideratioib of the resolution.
Mr. Locke thought this tesoluiioo would have
a rery bad tendency, and would be unfavorably
received by the people. He was opposed to it,
and should wish the sense of (he House to be
taken upon it by the yeas and nays.
The iquestion for which being put was carried.
Mr. GiLLEBPiB observed, that it was alleged
that this addition to the salaries of their officers
was Dwin^ to the advance which had laheu place
in the price of living, since their salaries were
filfed. If it were so, he ihonght the purveyor of
Public Supplies should be struck out, as that offi-
cer had not been long appointed. He made a
motion to that effect, which was negatived.
The yeas and nays were then taken on the reso-
lution, which passed — yeas 51, nays 34 — in the
following form;
« Baolotd, That tlitTa b« aUowsd and pud, fte the
year LT9S, to tbs SecntviM of 8(al«, Ttbuqij
Wu Departmental Treimier, OonpUdJer, Auditor,
ItegiBtor, CammiHioner of Revenue, Purveyor, AI1d(>
nej Oeneral, and Poetmuttir General, , ii
tion to theii reepective ealuiea."
The yeas and nays being demanded by one-fifth
of the members present, were as follow
Taia. — FiilirT Anne, Ahtahun Baldwin, Benjamin
Bourne, Theophilus Bradbory, G^riel Chhitie, Jothna
Coit, Williin Cooper, Jeremiah Cnbb, Geoige Dent,
William Fmdler, Abiel Forter, Bnight Foatei, Eie-
kiel (Hbeit, William B. Gilea, Nicholas Gilman, Henry
Oten, Benjamin Goodhue, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger
Orinrold, Witliim B. Onve, Cuter B. HuTiMn, Tho.
mu Hartlej, John Heath, James Hillhoiue, William
Hindnlaii, John Wilkea Kittera, Oeoige Leonard, 8a-
tnuel Lyman. Fenins Madiaon, Franeii Malbona, John
MilMg*! Andrew Moore, WiDiani Vans Mnmy, Alei-
aiid«r D, Orv, John Pig*, John Reed, Robert Rutberfbid,
SamMl Bitgieavaa, Jenmiah Smilh, Nathaniel Smith,
iMae Smith, BanMl Smid^ Wflluun Bmith, Tbomaa
Sprigg, John Swanwtek, a«Mge TbatdMr, Uriah Tracy,
John E. Van Alkm, AbnhMn Venable, Pdeg Wid»
worth, and John WiUiama.
Nat*. — Theodora* Bulay, Lmnel BantaD, Thomai
Bknint, Nalkan Biyan, DaunMy Boffea, Sunnri J,
~ ■ ■ ■" n»^ .J"" CtopUw, iMae Cole*,
Cabell. ThMiaa Uttbom*, J<
, ,-- ni», Andraw Gregfc Wade
Hampton, Qtagt HaiMOck. J«hii Balhom, Jmathaa
N. Havew "■"■"-
_. Ha*eBa,I>aJuelHei>lM,ThomaiHaBdeMNi, Ji .
Holland, Oeorfe Jackson. Aaron Kitdkall, Matthew
' Lock*, William Ljnan, Samnel MaelH, ^ '
f Maooo, Anlhony N«w, John mcholaa, Freni
waj> then appointed to bring in a
A communication from the Treasury Di-part-
enl was received, enclosing the Treasurer's ac-
counts of receipts and expenditures in the War
Department for the quarter ending in March last,
which was read and ordered to be printed.
Mr. W. Smith said, as it wa^ near the hour qf
adjournment, he should move that the House re-
solve itself into a Committee of the Whole on a
secret communication from the Prebiobnt rela-
ti»e to the Treaty with Algiera; which had be-
fore been narlly considered, and Che galleries were
accordingly cleared.
Tuesday, May 10.
Mr. S. Smith reported a bill for making an ad-
dition (0 Ibe salaries of certain public officers for
the year 1796; which was twice read and ordered
to be committed to a Committee of the Whole to-
morrow.
A communication was reeeived from the At-
torney Qeneral. encloiiug a report upon the peti-
tion of sundry inhabitants of St. Clair, agaiaiit
the oppressive conduct of Judge TuroLT, which
recommended a certain mode of prosecution.
The report and other papers were referred to a
select committee.
The bill altering the time of holding the Cir-
cult Courts of Rhode Island and Vermbat, was
read a third time and passed.
Mr. Tract from tne Committee of Claims,
made a report upon the petition of certain Stock-
bridge Indians for compensation (or services dur-
ing the war with Great Britain, which was
against the peiiiioners. Agreed in.
He also niade a report on (he petition of John
Montgomery and Thomas Smith, executora of
the late General Richard Butler, who was killed
in a battle with [be Indiana on the 4th November,
1791, and left behind him a widow and children ;
the report was in favor of the petitioners, and re-
commended the act of June 7, 1794. to be ex-
tended to this claim. Mr. T. observed, that this
case had been before determined upon on a peti-
tion from the widow Butler; that a bill had passed
that Home, but had been negatived in the Se-
nate. He doubted not, therefore, the report would
be agreed to. It was ord.-red to he referred to&
Committee of the Whole.
Mr. SwANWicK presented a petition from sun-
dry officers in the late war, holdiog military war-
rants, praying thai land might be afipropriaied,
upon which 1u locate their warrants in place of
that e^ded to the lodiaas bv Treaty. It was re-
ferred to the committee wno had the manage-
ment of that business.
The House resolved itself into a Cnmmiitee of
the Whole, on the bill authorizing Ebenezer Zans
to locate certain lands Northwest of the river
grossed for a third reading.
.dbyGoogle
1^39
HISTORY OF CONOBBSS.
H.opft.]
Treaty vnih AlgUra—SaU of Priza.
The Committee of the Whole, to whom w«s
referred the bill retatiTe to military lands, tras
diMharged^ and the bill wai recommitted to i se-
lect committee.
SALE OF PSIZES.
Mr- S. Smith wiibed the Hoiue to take up the
resolutioQ, which had been laid upon the table on
Saturday, relatire to the tale of prizes in (he
ports of the United States. It was accordingly
taken up. Mi. S. said, his inteatioa it) brinf^g
ftftward this resolution was to put all nations
Qpon the same footing with respect to selliag of
Sizes in their porn. By our Treaty with Great
-itain, prizes taken trom that Power by the
French were prohibited from being sold m our
ports; and in our Treaty with France, a similar
stipulation was made with respect to French ve»-
•eb taken by the English ; out in case a war
should take place between Great Britain and
Spain, there was at present no regnlatioa to pre-
Tenl Great Britain from brineinK Spanish prizes
into our ports. By the lawmiicn he proposed he
) deny the priril^e of sellinK prizes i
s to all nations, as the best way of : '
ins clear of offence to any, and thereby pre
'■- ■ ■ 'ate. After some little.
our ports K
OUT nentiHlity inriolati
sition,on thegronnd of its being a measure
present called for, but might be entered into when
inch a war as was anticipated should take place ;
that it was gLTiog an advantage without recipro'
city; and that the French, having heretofore liad
the privily of selling her prizes to our ports, the
■to^Mge of that ptinlage might give offence to
them— 4t passed by a large majority, and a coid-
mitlM was a[^nted to toing in a bill.
A bill was tiibaeqDBiitly reported, which was
lead the first and second lime, and eammitled to
a Conmiittae of the Whole.
Mr. W. Smith, from the committee to whom
was referred the amendments of the Senate to
the hill for the mIc of lauds Not<hirest of the
tirer Ohio, made a report, leeommending the
amoidments to be agreed to, and prc^iosin^ some
additional on at. Theywereorderadtobeprmtad.
TSEATT WITH ALQIEBa
1
usU 1 --
Whole House on ihe report of the Committee of
Ways and Means, of the eighteenth ultimo, rela-
tive to a Airther prorision for foreign intercourse ;"
and eanw to ttie following reaolutions, wltich
were sererally twice read, and agreed to by the
House:
1. Aesohwi That Ibe mm of two hundred and
sixty ttuMunnd dollan be appropriated, in order to
esrry into effect any Treaty already made, and
enable Ihe PmiatDSNT to effect any Treaty or
Traatica with any of the Barbery Butes.
St. Reaaived, That dollars be appropriated
for foreign intereonrse, in addition to the sam of
forty thoBsand didlars, annually appropriated for
Aat purpose.
& Aeeotoed, That Ae sum of four thonsand
ftva hnndred and thirty-nine dollars and lix cents,
be BpprD[)riated to reimburse the sums advanced
by Captains Colvill and Bnrnhsm, for tbeu ran-
som from captivity in Algiers.
Ordered, That a bill or biUs be brought in, to
coDtinae 10 furce the act, entitled "An act pro-
viding the means of intercourse between tbe Uai-
ted States and foreign nations," and, also, ptirsn-
ant to the resolutiuos aforesaid ; and that Mr.
William Smith, Mr. Qallatib, and Mr. Hii-L-
HouBC, do prepare and bring in the same.
WxDNBanAT, May 11.
The bill authorizing Sbenezer Zane to locate
certain lands in the Noithwettem Territory, wms
read a third time and passed.
Mr. Tract made a report on the petition of the
widow ol tbe late Colonel Oeor^ Gibsun, which,
being of the same nature with that of the widow
Butler, lately before the House, was reported upon
in the same way.and ordered to lie until (he form-
er case was decided upon.
Mr. Nicholas moved that the bill for the sale
of land Nivthwest of the river Ohio, with the
amendments from the Senate, and the leporl of
the select committee thereon, migbt be takes npj
which was accordingly done ; and, beinc gone
through with one or two amendments u Sttle
consequence, the amendments of the Senate were
agreed to.
TBy this bill, as now amended, the small lots of
160 acres each are done away,aad tbe least quan-
tity now to be sold is 640 aores. An ameadment
was projpoaed to reinsert a claose for tbe purpose
of restoring the small lots, bat was los^ iheie being
31 for it and 33 against it.]
SALE OF PUZBa
' The House resolved itself into a CoDunittee of
the Whole upon the bill to prevent the sale of
prizes in our ports.
Mr. Oallatin moved to add a elanse, to limit
the doration of the law for two ^ears. and from
thetiee to tbe end of the next session of Caogress.
Mr. 8. Smith wished to amend Ihe motioa by
striking out " two" and inwriins " tbiec"
Tbe motion fpt inserting " tEree" was |m ^ad
negatived.
Ur. SrroBEAVBB hoped the aiaendment would
not prevail. If he understood tbe inteatioB of this
bill, it was to prevent the necesci^ of naaking
EtijHiUtions in tine of wmi. At the czpimtioB 3
this law it was poasiUe the paniea naighi be at
war. The idea was to eaUhlii*. Auiitg n scasoa
of peace, a law with saapect to tbe sale of jmn,
which could give tdenea to no Powiar; but, at the
expiration of the proposed limit, we might be in
the Muation we wish to aveid.
Mr. NicHOiAa said, if the bill was atMMled to it
would be seen that thai objeotioM w
If the act eaplrcs, aitd w* think p
it, would it be introteeing a new pnneipiei
Svraly not, it will have been in (mention three
yean, aad, thereftite, eonid not be oonaideteJ
as new.
Ur. Urav^r ^ad no objeftitm^ in eomiq<» aett
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HISTORY OF CONGWESS.
134?
MiT, 1798.]
Sofa of Prizes.
of the LegiaUlure, to introduce a clause oriiraita-
tioD ; but in acts where great principles are laid
down, as ia this, whidi establishes a rule of action
eqaal to every coantry in a slate of war, whilEt
we ate in a state of ueutralilr, he thought it per-
fectly unnecessary to limit tbe bill. It wouJa al-
ways be in our power to repeal the law; but,
holding out an idea that at the end of two years
the regulation might die, he thought wrong.
There was no experiment necessary with respect
to this law; foi: beins right now, it woula be
light forever. But to nola out an idea that the
measure was merely temporary, might induce a
foreign Power to make use of artifices to preretit
a re-enacting- of the law.
Mr. SiTOREATESsaid, he did not feet conviiiced
by what had fallen from the gentleman from Vir-
gmia. If, when the law expired a fresh law was
passed, it would be considered as a neutral nation
changing the situation of two nations at war, so
as to gire one a preferpnce to anothei. It would
at least be considered as an unfayorable thing, if
Spain should be at war with France or England,
wnen this taw expires; not to renew it would
place her on a worse footing than the other Pow-
ers, and to put her on the same ground with
France and England, we must make a new taW.
It was true it would not be a new principle, but
it would change her situation, and might be cause
of offence to the other nation at war.
Mr. S WAIT WICK coDceiTed that every argument
in support of the bill was in favor of a limitation
of its duration. It was founded upon the proba-
bility of war betwixt England and Bpain. If
these two Powers did go to war he apprehended
it would be within two years, or not alL But
SDtlemen say the principle is a permanent one.
e was of a different opinion r it might be a very
wrong principle at si^me times, though good now.
To maxe the law permanent was ^ing too far.
He bad another ana still stronger objection to the
law being passed without limitation — he should
make no stipulation in bvor of any country with-
out reciprocity. If this privilege was allowed to
Spain, we ought to be guarantied to have a like
stipulation in our favor.
Mr. 8. said, he did not see aujr neceasity for the
bill at all, but he should waive his objections to it.
He tbou^t there were strong reasons, however,
for limiting its duration, in order to obtain suit-
able returns from other foreign Powers.
Mr. OAI.I.ATIH said, it was welt underatood that
the Law of Nations was entirely silent with re-
■pect to the sale of prizes in neutral ports. It
was one of those things relative to belhlgerent
Powers, which wis more the subject of a TreaiT
than of law. Amongst all our Treaties with
foreign nations only one of them contemi^ted
this object, viz : the Treaty with Great Britain,
which forbids expressly all her vessels taken
prizes from being sold in our seaports. This be-
lt^ established, we wish to put other nations, with
inom we have not treated on the subject, on the
■atne footing with Great Britain. We had not
at preamt any provision with the Dutch on the
n^ect, so that Great Britain oiiffat bring into
out ports Dutch prizes, and the Executive could
not with propriety renise them the privilege of
selling tbem. On account of- the situation of
other Powers, especially Spain, it was right, in
this instance, to do by law what in most caset
would be batter done by Treaty; but the very
reasons which induced him to wish for the law,
induced him to make the amendment. The
Treaty with Great Britain was to expire two
vears after the present -war; and, if the present
law was not made to expire aboot the same time,
it would put it out of the power of the Prebidbnt
to negotiate a new Treaty upon the best terms
possiUe; for Great Britain, holding by law that
advantage, would feel no inducement to grant an
equivalent in order to obtain it.
Mr. WiLLi&UB was in (avor of the limitation ;
for, though a good measure to-day, it might not
be so a few years hence. No difficulty could
arise from the limitation; and, if it did not an-
swer, it was much better to let the bill die of it-
self than to repeal it.
The motion on the amendment was put and
carried- The Committee then rose, the House
took np the consideration of the amendment.
agreed to it; and ordered the bill to be engrosser
for a third reading.
Mr. S. Smith called np,and the House went
into a Committee of the Whole on the resolution
which he had laid upon the table to prevent the
sale of prizes in the ports of tbe United States.
He -wished, he said, to pat all nations upon the
same footins in this respect. The French had
been in the nabit of bringing their prizes into the
ports of the United States. Under the Treaty
with that nation fand as the Law of Nations did
not forbid their sale) the Pbbsideht had indulged
them in the practice of selling their prizes.. The
French, therelore, having had this privilege, the
British, if no new law was passed to the contrary,
v^ould expect to be indulged in the same way:
and, should a war break cut bet-ween England
and Spain, (which was no improbable thing from
the present situation of Europe,) and the English
should brin^ into the ports of the United States
Spanish prizes, it might give offence to B^in, as
that nation could not do the same, it bemg con-
trary to a stipulation in the late Treaty with
Great Britain. The British bringing Spanish
prizes into our ports, Mr. S, said, would have an-
other bad effect — they would enlist our saQors on
board their vessels, and by that means greatly en-
hance the wages of seamen, ali^y too high.
The motion was put and carrH; the Commit-
tee rose and reported the resolfl^p ; the House
took it up, when Mr. Macon dtiserTed, it would
he impolitic to pass the law proposed. Had they
not already allowed the French to tell prizes in
our ports, and would it not be a breach of our
Treaty with them now to put a stop to the prac-
tice ? He thought it would be better to leave the
Mj. W. Smith said, the Executive did not con-
sider it as repugnant to tbe I^w of Nations to
allow the French to sell their prizes in our part&
and, therefore, he Itad tolentea the practice. But
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orRJ
Sate oj Prize*.
it was 8D iDJuriouB practice ; il creaied a tenden-
cy to war and a desire of privateering in their
seamen, when [hey were witnesR (o ibe spoils ac-
quired by uiheri. No nation could claim it of
right ; and we had a right by taw to prohibit itj
snd very twQefieial effects would, in his opiniun,
■rise from such a resiriclion.
Mr. SwAKwicK thought the resolution very im-
portant. It Was interfering with » principle ^en-
ilemeo were not aware of. It was a very delicate
■ubject. Sweden and some other countries hare
found an advantage in allowing prizes to he itold
in their ports. It «a!< doubtful with him whether
the incoDvenieoces would not be greater than the
conveniences arising from the pioposed measure.
It had the appearance of wilbarawingan advan-
tage from France, which the Prebioent had
heretofore allowed them to enjoy. If the late
Treaty wilb Britain takes the power away from
France, let it be left on that ground. He supposed
the Pbebident did nut grant the priril^e with-
out well considering toe matter. What were
DOW the reasons for withdratviog it he could not
aay. The gentleman from Maryland had men-
tioned a war with Spaiu. If such a war were to
take place the Liie»sure now proposed might he
adopted \ but, in the mean time, as the pBEeiDEXT
had conducted the business heretofore, he was
willing it should be still left with htm. The
measure might be a right one, but it .was taken
up in a sudden manner, and he had not lime to
make up hii mind on the subject. He thought
DO argument of what might pussibly happen. at
some future time ought to influence them in the
present decision.
With respect to entisling our people to go on
board privateers, if prizes <^ere suOered to be
brought in, he beliered the high wages given by
the merchants to seamen would prevent them
from voluntarily goin^ on board sbips-of-wat j be-
sides, [bey would be liable to be treated as pirates.
He, therefore, did not apprehend much evil from
this; but he apprehended much evil and no ad-
vantage from this resolution. His great objection
■gainst it was, because it was an interference
with Executive business, and that its operation
would be chiefly agaiont Prance. The British
take few prizes. It would neither favor the in-
terests of France nor Spain, but it would favor
alone Qreat Britain. Upon the whole, as the
pRcaiDENT had allowed France the privilege of
selling her prize; in our ports, be was not willing
- to do any thin^n his own part to withdraw it.
Mr. a. Smj^.— This subject was introduced
two years ago. Thitin were very different from
what they are Dow. The French were allowed
to Hell their prizes i:i our ports under the Laws of
Nations. By our Treaty with France, prizes
taken from that nation were forbidden to be sold
in our pons; and, by our Treaty with Britain,
the same thing is stipulated with respect to the
British vessels. Therefore, neither of those two
nations can complain ; but Wore any new Euro-
pean war ukes place we wish to put all nations
upon the same footing in this respect.
He was surprised to have heard ideas so anti- >
jal from the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania, [Mr. Swahwick!] who said he was unUer
DO apprphension from British priraieers engaging
our sailors: whereas our sailors, having early em-
barked in privateers^ was well known to be oae of
t:ie causes of the high prices of wages. British
impressroenls was another cause. The sailorm of
the Danes and Swedes remain at nearly the same
rates a* usual ; and he would say if Spanish and
Portuguese prizes were to be admitted to be sold
in our porta, the wages of sailors would advaace
to fifty dollars a month. That gentleman had
studied and spoken upon the Treaty, yet he did
not seem perfectly to understand iL He said, our
seamen would not be likely to enter on hoard
privateers, because, if they did, ibey would be
con^iidereJ as pirates. Mr. S. read the article, in
which the words are : " If any subject or eilizen,
itx.., shall accept any foreign commission or let-
ters of marque for armiitg any vessel, ^., if
taken, shall be considered as a pirate." Did sail-
ors, he asked, come under this description 1 But,
if ibey did, show them a orospect of ex iruordi na-
ry gain, and nothing could stop them from en-
The peace of this country, Mr. S. said, would
better be preserved if a plan of this kind was
adopted. In other countries, it was true, prizes
werd permitted to be sold or not, as it appeared \a
be their interest. It was our mierest lu beep our-
selves separate from the quarrels of Europemn
nations, which scarce ever ceased, and to be at
peace with aU the world.
Was it one of the cau.ses of Admiral Murray's
being on our coast that- French prizes were suffer-
ed to he brought into our ports and sold, from
whose ships our property had suffered more injury
than all the prizes which could be sold in our
ports would do us service 1 The measure was
perfectly neutral, and could give no nation reason
to complain.
Mr. SwANwiCK agreed with the gentleman
from Connecticut, [Mr. Hillbousc.J that we
ought not to act uader fear of dispi easing any
foreign nation, when doiotf what appeared right
and proper; and wished, also, with [lie geuilemaji
from Maryland last up, to be at peace with all the
world. Upon these principles there would not
be a discordant sentiment in ibat House.
If this advantage was given up to Spain, that
prizes taken from her should not be sold in our
pons, we ought to have a Hliputatiui on het part,
that m case we were at war out vessels should
not be sold in her ports. With regard to the ex-
istinff state of things by Treaty, neither France
can bring British, nor Britain French prizes into
our DOTts, so that we need not be afraid of our sail-
ors being tempted to enter on board privateers,
few or none of tbeue appearing here. But few
Rrizes had been brought into our porta, and as
;w instances of American sailors going a pri-
vateering. He believed British impressioents of
our seamen and the general rise in price of almost
every thing, bad been the chief cause of the pre-
sent hizh wages. He could tell the gentleman
from Maryland that there was an article in tha
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
MAY.1796.J
fH.opR.
late Treitf which more probably contiaued Ad-
miral Murray on our coast ihsn the InteroPpting
of French prizes — be meaot the article wbicH
sanclioDpd the taking of oar vessels coming from
French ports, on suspicion of their hario^ cae-
my's property on board. Nearly every vesael of
this kind the British cruisers net with are taken
and Kent ioto Bermuda, where the original suspi-
cion is made proof strong as Holy Writ, and the
TJrtuoas Judge has no scruplen in condemnii^
nearly as fast as the vessels are brought in. He
believed this was the whole history of Admiral
Murray's cruise. He was daily in the habit of
rapturing our vessels and ^oods. If his views
were to intercept French prizes, he would not be
about the mouth of the Delaware and off New
York, Bs prizes have been mostly carried into the
more Southern ports, on account of their nearer
situation to the West Indies.
Gentlemen seemed to tbinklhislawwould favor
Spain, Portugal, and Holland. If
bad no re ■ " '
ing regnh
e«juiva1ent returns of benefit for what w
ther we should give to Spain the same advaniase
by law, which Great Britain and France hadljy
Treaty. He had no doubt if we did this, Spain
would have the magnanimity to make a similar
reeulalion in our favor.
Mr. MtDiaoH believed that if a war were to
break out between Great Britain and Spain, we
should then bn as free to make such a regulation
as we are during the war at present; and if so,
he did not see the necessity of going into snch a
He thought there was some weight in the argu-
ment of the gentleman from PennsylvaniH, [Mr.
SwAMWicK.] that if this was an advantage given
to S|iain, we ought to hare something in return ;
and though she might, from a principFeof ma^a-
nimity, grant us a similar regulation, it would be
more certain to have it secured by Treaty. As
he did not see the necessity for this measure, he
did not like a Legislative iaierfereoee of any sort,
under present circumstances. The Executive was
charged with the application of the Law of Na-
tions, and was responsible on that subject : the Le-
sbtaiurewere to define them. This would induce
hesitation at least. He had not thought much on
the subject ; but he believed there was nothing in
the present case that could require the interfer-
ence of Congress, in a manner to B.v»ume a respon-
sibility belonging to the Executive Department.
Mr. W. SurTB said, the gentleman from Vir-
ginia [Mr. Maoison] supposed that it would be
full time enough to make the regulation now pro-
posed, when a war might breakout between Great
Britain and Spain ; but he would ask that gentle-
man whdt was to be done if such a war should
break out in the reeem of Congress, and British
vessel* ofwarw^rc 10 brinx in Spanish prizes?
The pREeiOENT having heretofore permitted the
French to bring in and sell their prizes, could not,
withuat B violation of neutiality, refuse the ume
privilege to the British, as there would be no law
against the nractiee. With respect to the Lawof
Nations authorizing the sale of prizes, there was a
remark in FatUl which seemed to incline to th«
opinion that the sale of prizes was not inconsistent
with neutral duties. He thought we ought to giva
no advantage to one belligerent Power over anu*
ther ; and Uierefore,to give any belligerent Power
ir f -
uld
.d therefore it was, that two years ago, b«
advocated a bill which passed the Senate, but waa
rejected in this House by a small majority.
There was not hinfc in tbeLawof Nations which
gave the British a right to sell prizes Jn our poriii,
nor was there anything in the late Treaty which
either sanctioned or prohibited the privilege. The
French had been allowed lo do it, but it was stated
by Mr. Jefferson, the Secretary of State, to be a
mere indulgence ; yet, having been once granted,
the PBBBtDERT waa scrupulous about wiinholdinc -
the privilege, except required so to ao by law. If
a war were to take place between Great Britain
and Spain, not being restricted by law, the Pke-
siuEHT would feel himself required to sraot the
same privilege to Great Britain which he Bad here-
tofore allowed to France.
With respect to the observation that we ought
to have something in retorn from Spain, he had
little doubt but she would grant to us a reciprocal
regulation; if, however, she should not, the law
could at any time be repealed. He hoped, there-
fore, the session would not close before snch a law
was passed.
Mr. EiTTERA said the regulation would be an
advantage to this country, and not to Spain'. la-
stead of the sate of prizes bein? advantageous, they
were a great evil ; for. independent of other eon-
siderations, it was injurious to fair and regular
commerce, because the goods coming in, unexpect-
ed ly, overstocked the market, and put things out
of their regular courae.
Mr. GALLATIN was in favor of the resolution,
and he conceived ihe present was the best time for
passing snch a law. If the regulation were to take
place while a war subsisted between Great Britain
and Spain, it might be a cause of offence to Great
Britain, as operating against her ; bi|t, at present,
no nation could object to the passing of such a law.
With respect to the idea suggested that we sboDld
stipulate a return of favor trom Spain, he must
confess he was not afraid .of obtaining a similar
regulation from her. It must, however,be obserred,
that, BO far as related to Great Britain, though we
had stipulated by Treaty that her ves«els takeit
prizes should not be sold in our portK, yet that
Treaty was only to continue in force for two years
after the present war, and the law now under
consideration fras not limited in its duration j he
therefore wished an amendment to be introduced
limiting the law to the same period with the ezitt-
ence of the Treaty, (hat when the PaBaiOENT had
■gain occasion lo negotiate, he might obtain some-
thing in return from Great Britain.
Mr. W. Sjiitb thought there waa force in ihe
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HISTORY OF COWGHESS.
hOenud AeiwRue — QuarumtuK.
[M*T,1796.
._ _ 0 formed.
The resolulioQ was asreed to, and a
Itjtpointed to bring in a bill.
INTERNAL REVBNUBK
On the motion of Mr. W. Smith, the House
ieiolred itself into a Committee of the Whole,
the report of the Committee of Ways and Means
on the provision requisite for improvine the inter.
nal revenues of the United States, and for more
effectually securing the collection of the same ;
.when a considerable debate took place on the first
nticle, which is in the following wrnds r
" Betohed, Th^t it will be expedient to , kboliih tli
lax on fpirita distilled ihim malehaU of the growth (
produce of the United Statea, >1 kdt other place than
dtr, town, or viUige, or at any diftfllerr in ■ dty, (owi
ar Tillage, at which there ihall be one or more itilli ;
which einglj, if onl^otie, or together, if man than one,
dMi!lbe<rf'laaoa|weitythan fiMlr hundred falloni; and
to collect Ihii biMch of the revenue hom a tax on the
e^adQ of (he tWm."
In the course of this debate, a motion was madt
to strike out all the words after "produce of the
United Slates," and another for striking the article
out altogether.
In support of the first motion, it was esserted
Ikal the lax itself was unequal and vexatious, fay
laying a duty upon one nar ' '' "' " '"
mich disiilled spirits rro:
rt of the United States
witich disiilled spirits irom gnin, while others
who brewed porter or beer of iheir grain paid no
duty. And in support of the la«t motion,
asserted that the present mode of collectmg the
tax was easier to distillers, and more ptodtable to
the revenue, than it woulil be by the new: plan.
At lengihfa motionwae made for the Committee
to rise, for the purpose of getting rid of the con-
aidenttion. The Commiitee accordingly rose,
reported, and asked leave to sit again. Some op-
poiitioa was made, and leave was obtained by a
majority of one only— being 3G for it and 35
against it.
A motion was then made and carried, 39 to 37,
to discharge the Committee of the Whole from a
farther consideration of the first article.
On motion of Mr. NicHOLAa, the House took
up the report of a select commiitee for augroent-
iiig the salary of the Accountant of the War De-
partment; which being agreed to, a committee
was appointed to bring in a bill.
ON QUARANTINE.
Onmotionof Mr. S. Shits, the House resolved
itself into a Committee of ihe Whole, on the bill
rwulattng Quarantine; when—
Mr. Hbister objected to the principle of the bill.
It proposed to take the power from individual
States to regulate what respected the health of
their citizens, and lo place it m the Par
THE Unitbb States. He thought thi
would be attended with great inco
Many of the States lay very listant from the seat
of Government, and before information could be
given to the PResinBttT of the apprehension of
any pestilence bfinij introrlocert, and '..s aiinv^T.
received, the disease might be introduced into th«
counlry, and great havoc mode amongst our citi-
zens. It appeared to him that the Qovernment of
each individual State was better calculated to
regulate quarantine than ihe General Goremment,
because upon the spot. And if the power was to
be transferred from the Pbebidekt to the CoUeci-
ors at each port, (and that he conceived must be
the case,) it would put a vast deal too much power
inio their hands. He hoped, therefore, the bill
would not be agreed to.
Mr. S. Smith said that each individual Sute
had or might have its own health laws, but [be
performing of quarantine was in the direction ol
the General Government: it was a commercial
regulation. The Pbeh[di:mt ought to be empo^*
ered to dfaignate the place where vessels should
perform quarantine — to enforce the performance —
and to determine at what time of the year it should
commence and end. li ought, he said, to com-
mence at the present lime.
Mr. KiTTEBA understood that each iudepeodaii
State had a right to legislate on this subject (or
itself; and if they had noreguiatioos on the subject
it was because they had not felt the want of them.
He believed that each State had understood its
own concerns belter than the General Qorent-
mcni, and therefore the regulation might be safely
le[^ with tbem.
Mr. S. Smith denied that there was any author-
ity in the State Qovernments to reeulate quaran-
tine. They could not command the officer of a
fort to use force to prevent a vessel from entering
their'port. The auliiority over him was in the
General Government.
r. MiLLEDOB spoke against the law. He said
the State from which he came was in the habit of
regulatiiigqUBrantine,and that it would beattended
ivithmanyinconveniencesif the power was to be
placed in the General Government. To the Slate
which he represented, on account gf its distance,
it would be patlicularly objectionable.
The Committee rose without making any amend-
ments in the bill, and the House took it up.
Mr. Giles said that self-preservatioD jusuGed
every State in taking means to prevent the intio-
ductioaof diseases among itsciiizens. He thought
the hilt unnecessary.
Mr. W. Smith said the Constitution did not give
the State Governments the power of stopping
vessels from coming into their ports-
'"r. HcieTEK moved to strike out the first sec-
He said it appeared to him as if it would be
taking the power of regulating quarantine from
the State Govern men Island placing it in the bands
of the Collectors at diSerent ports ; and at he be-
lieved the Collectors were interested in proportion
to the quantity of goods imported, the bnlth of
our citizens and the interest ofihe Collectors would
be placed in opposition to each other. He hoped
the first section would be struck ouL
'. KiTTERA and Mr. Swanwice were in favor
of striking oot the first section,
The time of adjournment being arrived, tbe
House adJL.urncd without taking ibc question on
.^lr. IlLIHI'tK'o luotit;!). I
.dbyGOOgle
flISTOHY OF CONGRESS.
1350
May,J796.J
QtwranliM Begtdatumg.
Trussdav, May 13.
, The bill for preTcnting th« sale of prtae* in the
porta of the Uniled State* was read a third time
and nused.
The committee to whom was reeommitted a bill
from the Senate improyiDg the act relatiTe to the
eocouragemeDt of Uwful Ant, together with a
leporlof the committee to whixn the said bill wax
reietred, made a leport ; which wat oidered to lie
upon the taUe.
A eommunicatioD was received from the Trea-
sury Departmeal, eacloMBg a statement of the
exiwili of the Uoited Btatei for the year 1795;
which was ordered to be printed.
Mr. W. Smitb reported a bill regolatiog grants
of lands appropriated for military Berviees, and .
for the society of United Brethren, for propaga-
ting the QoBpel j one for laliitfyiiig the claims of
the Bxecaiora <a the late Bsron Stenben ) and
aoolber for mdtifte further proTisioa for the
pensea atteoding the iniercourse with foreigo-
tione, and to ooDtirtue in ioree as act proriding
for the ezpeneea attending the in lercouree between
the United States and foreign nations. These
three bills were twice read, and ordered to be
committed to a Committee of the Whole; the
two flnt on Saturday, the last on Monday.
Mr. NioHoute reported a bill for altering the
cDQipenutioR of the Accoonlant of the War De-
partment, which was twice read, and ordered
be committed to a Committee of the Whole i
morrow.
Mr. Thatohbh reported a bill in addition to the
■et establishing Post Offices and Post Roads with-
in the Uniled States ; which was twice read, and
referred to a Committee of the Wixde on Monday.
Mr. CoiT, from the Committee to whom was
referred the petition of John Edgar, and others,
of the NorthwesteTD Territory, praying to be per-
mitted to introduce slares into thai Territwy
from othbr States, reported agaioat the petitioners ;
but with respect to their claim for certain lands,
"-— ' '- •'^eii &Tor. Th — -
e on the table.
ON QUARANTINE,
The House went into Committee aa the bill
relative to Q,tiamntinei and the motion of Mi
Heister to strike ont the first section being under
consideration, Hz: —
•• Be U matted, ^ ThetDia Prendnntof thcrnilad
Htstea be, and is hereby, sutliDriied to direct st what place
or station in the lidniljorthe respectiTe ports ofenti?
witbin the ITnttad Htsteg, uid for what duration and
perticnlar periods of time, veiitels arriving from toniga
fotta and places maybe directed to periiinn quarantine."
Mr. BoDRNB hoped the motion would not be
aKreed ta He thought it a necessary regulation.
No incouTenience, it was true, had oc;aired in the
Stale he represented, but be beiieTed they were
liable to inconTcniences from the want of such a
Uw as this. By the aid of cualom-house officers,
who had concurred with the State: they had been
able to effect every necessary regulation ; but, if
III. .^p oflii-'^-s Iind refiK-d their aid, tliey could not
hLie stopped ve^els with infectious diseaseafrum
coming intoport—tt being of the nature ofacotD-
mercial regulation, to wluch, by the Conatitutioo,
Congress alone were competent. Without the
Srst clause, there would be a radical defect in the
bill.
Mr. SwAHWiCK raid, if the section was struck
out, the bill would have every desirable effect. AU
that was complained of, was, that the authority of
any individual State could not compel vessels to
perform quarantine ; but if the PnnsiDEHT gave
aireclioDs to the officers of the United States at
every pott to aid the State Governments in this
respec^ every effect would be obtained. The first
section of the bill went aalj to direct the time
duriog which quarantine should be performed, and
at what particular place, which would certainly
be best netermined by the State Qovernments.
Indeed, most of them having already fixed on places
for the purpose, and erected suitable buildings for
the sicE, for purifying goods, d^., it would be
attended with very great mconvenience if a differ-
ent place was to be nied upon by the United States.
Itwaa said, the right of regulating quarantine did
not reside in the Slates Governments ; he believed
it did,and that the individual States bad conceived
so, was evident from the expense which some of
them had been at in erecting buildings, dec., for
the purpose. He particularly alluded to the pro-
visions made for this purpose by the State of Penn-
sylvania on the Delaware.
Mr. SiTOSEAVEB would ask his colleague [Mr.
Swan wick] to point out the inconveniences which
would arise from passing the law in its present
state? It was true, the State of Pennsylvsnia had
made some reeutations on the subject of quaran-
tine ; but, without the aid of the United States,
they could not cany them into effect. They may
direct, by their Governor and Board of Health,
□uaranlines to be performed, but they could not
■orce any vessels to observe theirJirections, with-
out the aid of the General Government. Some
States had, on this subject, n'j institutions at all;
and where it existed, it was reasonable to suppose
that they would be properly respected by the
Pbesident in the arrangements he should make
under a law like the present At any rate, no in-
convenience need be apprehended from an exer-
cise of concurrent jurisdictions. If a State should
direct one term of quarantine to be performed, and
the Phebident another, the longest term which
must comprise both, will be submitted to. But the
strongest and best reason for a law, such as the one
proposed, is, that it is matter of very prions doubt
whether, upon this subject, tlie States bad any au-
thority at all, and whether all such power is not
veslea by the Constitution in the Congress, under
their general authority to regulate commerce and
navigation. He inclined to the last opinion, and
believed, upon examiDation, it would appear to be
well founded. On the whole, the provision con-
templated might produce good effects, and could
not oe followed by any evil consequences; and,
therefore, he should vote for it.
Mr. MiLLEDQE spoke in favor of striking out the
st section, and of the power of regulalins quar-
itinc btiug in the Stated Governments. Snvan-
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
H.opR.]
Quarantine Regulalunu.
D&fa. in Georgia, he »aiil, was □□« ihousaad miles
fVom thes«Bt ol Giorernment, and from iheir siiu-
«iioD with reapect lo the West Indies, they were
rery Hubjrcr to ihe evil of vesseb comtn^ in from
thcDce wiib diseases; and, if ibfy were to wait
UDiil iDformalion could be given to (he Prebi-
DENT of tbeir wish to have quaraaliiie performed,
and an answer received, tbegreatentravngesinight,
in the nieaa time, take place from pestilentiatdis-
eases. The Stale of Georgia bad a long law od
the subject, and bad always been in theliabit of
regulatmg quarantine, witDout consulting the Ge-
neral Government.
Mr. BonBHB spoke a(;|ain in favor of the bill.
It had been objected against the bill, that the State
might order quarantine ro be tHrfoimed for one
length of time, and the General Government an-
other. That difficulty would be got over by ob-
serving the longest period.
Mr. Giles said, ibere appeared (o him several
inconveniences altendine the bill. The gentle-
man last tipiiad stated, tbal if a len^r time was
ordered for quarantine lo be performed by either
Ihe Slate or General Government, it should be
obeyed in preference to the shorter. He believed
this would not prove satisfactory. Bui how did
gentlemen propose lo gel orei the difficulty of
difiVrenI places being appointed by the two Go-
ver^menlA? If, said he, the States bad already
filed upon limes and places of performing quar-
antine, he thought it necessary for ihe Oentrel
Government lo interfere in altering Ihem. He
thought that bolb time and place should be fixed
bv the Slate; but if it were Ihe bu>iness of the
General Goveinmenl, it was Legisialive and not
Eiecative business, it was said, some of the
Slates bad no regulations with respect to quaran-
tine; but, if they bad nol, when they found a ne-
ceosiiy fur them, they would have ihem. It had
been ^aid, that every useful purpose woald be an-
swered by the last clause ; why, then, retain the
first, against which there are !0 many strong ob-
jeelious 1 He hoped it would be struck out,
Mr. EiTTERi asked if a State should think it
necessary to change the place of performing quar-
aniine, whether the Pbebident could always
have notice of the change in time, so as to make
his regulations accordin^y? He believed not.
This would be one of the inconveniences wbicb
would arise from the first clause. He thought
the second would answer every desirable purpow.
Mr. S, Smith B«id, that gentlemen who oppos-
ed the present bill, insisted upon the authority to
regulate quarantine being in the State Gorern-
menis. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr.
SwiiNwicK] said that each State had its builmngs
for ibe puriKwe. This was not a fact. Some ol
the Stales bad no regulations on the subject. At
Baltimore, they had built an hospital four miles
from the port, but the State had no auihoriiy to
stop vessels at it. He asked the gentleman from
Georgia [Mr. MiLLEncs] whether there wan any
SdWi-r iu that State which could stop a vesftel ui
is from going into Savannah, though she had
sickness on board 7 He denied that it had. She
wilt sail into port in defiance of their State Ibwn.
egulation, and, therefore,
the business of the General Garernment. Ur. S.
said, be brought in this bill, tbat the regulation*
respecting quarantine might be authorized by the
profter authority. It could not be suppocvd that
the PitEsiDEKT would alter the places alreadv
fixed npoD by the individual States^ without sack
good reasons as would convince taem of its ne-
cessity. To suppose the contrary, .was an ub-
Irortby auspicioa that the Eiecottve would abmc
his power. There were Sutes wbiefa bad no
laws upon the subject. Maryland had > law
which had been sanctioned by a law of the Ge-
neral Goverameot, and hud been reaewed this
session.
Mr. WtiJ.t&M8 observed, that the geaileoiaa
last tip had said that r^ulatioas respecting qttar-
antine were commercial regulations, and, there-
fore, vested in the General GoTemment. The
Stale of New York bad never found kny difficnl-
ly in causing vessels to stop at a certain place
to perform quarantine. Philadelphia and new
York had had occasion to make alterations with
respect to the proper places of stopping ; and tbey
were certainly the best judges as lo the propriety
of those alterations. It appeared to him thai the
second clause would answer the purpose wanted.
Nol that be was by any means iealons of the
power of thepHESiDENT; but be believed it woold
be best for the Slates lo hare the power ol di-
recting the time and place of performing quaran-
tine, as (hey could more imaediaiely carry their
regulations into effect. The second clause iJireeU
ihat the officers of the <jieneral Govemioent shall
aid the Stale GovemmeoU, which ia all that is
necessary.
Mr. W. Lthan thouglil the individoal States
had the sole control over the regulaliomi nf quar-
antine. It was by no means a commercial regu-
lation, but a regulation which respected the health
of our fellow-cilizens. In the town of Boiion the
small-pox was considered as a pestilential disease,
and they certainly had a right lo make their re-
gulations accordingly. He knew tbe United Siatea
could prohibit the importation of goods, hot he
did not think it tnn in the power of the United
Slates to prevent the landing of persoits. He be-
lieved the bill was unnecessary, and that Individ-
ual Slates had a right to make such legulstions
as were necessary fur the preservatioa of tbe
health of their citizens.
Mr. HiULBoDBE said, if gentlemen had been a*
near infectious disorders as he had been, they
would have been convinced of the necessity m
making i<ome such regulations as were now pro-
posed. He wa& nol surprised that gentlemen who
lived several hundred miles from tbe Uiore did
not feel anxious about the matter. He ihonght it
was an object which merited the attentioo of Con-
grens. He knew there were local regulations is
many ol the Slates relative to this subject, which
he did nol wish lo destroy. Gentlemen night a>
wtll say lhat the individual Slates bad the power
01 prukibiiiug commerce as of regulating quaran-
tine ; brcause, if they had the power to stop a
vessel fur one mouth, they might stop it for twelve
L
abjGoOgIc
SBTORT 07 C(mOSESB.
QMRMtttM Rtg%Uatiami
[H.0
mMtba. Tbis isiq^t iaterfere wiA reguUtioBB
TedpecttDg our iTade,aDd break oui Treaties. At
'"- - "i time, be EtUowed that ibe Statet were
tbe best judge* of tim« and place. Mr. H. pi
ptxed two ■roendments. One w««, that the Pa
aiDUiT sliotild make regulation* wbere indiTidaal
Slates had not ^ready dooe ii ; the spcond was,
to make it thedutyof offieers of the United States
to agaiM the State GorerDmeaCs to carry iaio ef-
fect their ■eveml bwi, until Congres* smU make
TUti»Ds to the Bontnry.
r. GaLiUtiii said, he did not agree in the
least with the gentleman from Uvflaat), [Mr. S.
BmitbJ that Ine power of regulatiag qnaraatiae
W8I exeluaiTely in the United Suiea. He con-
ceived the fttly elaoM in the Gontitutioa which
eonld at nil countenance- «ueh an idea, was the
■rtiole relaiire to cvinmerce. But, be said, the
rsgulatioD of quarantine had nothing to do with
comnierec. It was a regnlaiion of laienwl po-
lice. ]i -was to ^preterve (he health of a certain
[dace, by preventing the iatroduction id pestilen-
tial diseases, by creveniiog persoas coojiair from
coootrieB where they were preraleoL Whether
■tieh pernODs came by land or ty water, whether for
eommerce or For ^asure, was of no importance.
Thev were all matters of police.
The individual Sutes had thought ihemselves
eompetanl to prevent the introduction of slaves
cAniag by sea, although that also might be called
a commercial regnlation, which they nad no right
to intaifere with. And if a vessel bdonging to
the gentleman from Maryland was to come to 4he
ports of BaliimDre or Philadelphia with a cargo
of negroes, he believed ibe State Qoremmeni at
either place would be equal to the preventing of
him from landing and disposing of them, though
be would say it was an article of commenie.
The State Oovernmeots bad also something to
do with the internal regulations of their ports.
Tbat of Philadelphia wa« under the directHm of
Wardens and of State laws. He bad no o^ee-
lion to the United States asbisting the individual
Siatas in enfureing ihcir quarantine regulaiions,
but he had an objection to their atserliBg that
tbef had the sole ngfat of making rteulatioas on
that bead, or of making health laws tor the iitdi-
vidua 1 States. He knew that whan the L^psla-
tui«s of difierenl States had legislated on the rvb-
ject, kbey had thaught it an important btwich of
their dnty.
Tbe words proposed to be introdoead bf the
gantlcmao fromConneeliaut, ■' until Congresasball
make regulations to the contrary," eactaed to My
ibat the bealib laws of the eevenl Stales were to
eoDliaue only during the pleasure of Congress ;
but, if the assisiaoce of the United Smtes was
only neeenary. the amandment of his colleague
[Mr. Hbibter] would answer the purpoae.
Mr. S. Smith raid, the seDileman from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. UALLATitr] differed in opinion from
him with respect to the Stales having the power
to sfup vessels coming into their ports. It was
irae, inat the laws of the States of Maryland and
Penasylvania prohibited the importation of slaves;
but a vessel might bring in any quantity of ne-
4th Con.— 44
groes, providad, on landing, they w«ie not aold.
It had been said that the <k)verDor of Penosylm-
nia had slopped vessels from entering this port,
which were suspected of haring diseases on board.
That was, he said, before the foit was ceded to
tbe Union. He had not the power now to do it.
That such authority had been snbipitied m was
true and proper, but be had no legal right to stop
any vessel
The individual Btaiet may make health laws,
but they want the power to carry them into exe-
oation ; they are good for nothing without such
power. That the State of Penasylvania had
passed a health law; and carried it into ^ect, was
no proof against his assertion. The law whioh
he had now brought ft»wajrd was meant to gire
full eflect to the State laws. He had ao objec-
titxk to the amuidment of the gentleman from
Connecticut.
Mr. W. LvHAM observed, that the gentleman
fiom Marjrland [Mr. Bmitb|) did not m^e the
proper distinction, ftuarantme was not a coffi-
ntercial regulation, it was a regnlatitm for the p>«-
servatinn of health. If commerce was incidmt-
ally afiected, it ought so to be, when the object
was the preservation of health and life. The
United States, it was true, could prevent the im-
portation of any goods^ whether infected or no^
iHit it did not thence follow that they could per-
mit the landing of infections goods contrary In
the laws of any State. The several Statespos-
sessed tbe sole power over this subject, l^ey
were tbe besi judgei of ibe due exercise of it.
The right to preserve healib and life was inalien-
able. The bill was not only unnecaseary and im-
proper, but itwaseniojudicions interference with
the internal police of the Slates ; neither would
the amendment whit^h had been offered by the
gentlenun from Connecticut [Mr. HiLLHOuan]
ameliorate ihe billi iiwonld still be interfering
not competent thereto at present, the gentleman
might remooMiate to their I^egislainre, and no
doubt could exist but be would he suit^ly listen-
ed to. As to tbe argument that Statea neglected
to moke ranlMions, it paored that they aupposed
them supednoas. Whilst they fatbcnr to do ai^
thing, it was proof that nothing onghl to be dose.
The Siatea wet* th^ best jnd^a, and had lite srie
power to determine.
Mr. Etmna said, hi* ohieetion* to the bill
would b* removed by the amoiimcnta of Ihe gen-
tleman from Connectknt. The dnlv point in
which they seemed to differ wa^ waethar the
PBEaioENT or THE Umitbd STATts, or the Qo-
vemmenl of each iDdividuai State, was best able
to make the wisest regulations ] If the first sec-
tion passed, the PnEaiDENT would most probably
adopt the regulations of Ihe difierenl States; and,
by Ibe second, tbe officers at the United Stales
are commanded to aid in tbe execution of the
Slate laws.
Mr. H&ATB was for striking out the first claoae,
and was against the bill altogether.
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRKBS.
1356
H.opR.]
t^wnMtdu Afgvloftow.
[Hat, ITSe.
Mr. HiLLBOUBB laid, the-firat ekuse might be
■truck oDt It was onij necenarf where do [eo-
lation was made. It wu Mid that a regulation
of quarantiae had Dothiag to do with trade; but
if a Slate, in order to preTeot the iutroduclion of
certain goods from a certain eonntrf , ware to order
a quarantine of twelve months to be performed,
would it not be destruetire of commerce? It cer-
moly would i and if a State had the power of
■topping a vessel one month, she can extend it to
twelve, ifiihe pleaiies.
Mr. Oibss said, he did not know which States
legislated upon it; but if they had not done n,
they could do it- The gentlroiaD from Maryland
[Mr. Smith] had said, to -rejnilate quarantine was
a commeKial regulation. They were leaiJaiing,
not upon commerce, but opoo preyenting the in-
troduclioD of peatilential disorders. Were these
objects of commerce? [f a Slate stopa a ship,
shcidoes not stop it on account of the goods it
coDtaiD:i. but because it contains an infectious dis-
order, wnicb, if it were considered Bsaa article of
comiperce, certainly ought, at least, to be a con-
trsband article. He did not believe there was
any necessity for interference; but, if there was
any want oi ability to enforce obedience to the
laws of the Stale, he had no objection to furnish
it, and that would be done by the proposition of
the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Heistem.I
Mr. SwAKWicK nid, if it were to be admitted
that the Oeneral Oovemment was to take upon
it the regulation of health, he would ask whether
the first section of the present bill contained any
regulation of this loit ? The State of Fenusylva-
nia, he said, had been at great expense in erect-
ing necessary buildings ior the reception of per-
sons and goods infected with diseases. It was to
be lamented that gentlemen had not before fouad
•out that this was the business of the Oeneral Qo-
Tornment, for it had been a very expensive under-
taking to the State of Pennsylvania to provide
the necessary buildings for carrying their qaaran-
tine and health laws into ezecaiioa, and they
wonld gladly have turned it over to the United
States. He thoiurht the utility of this business
lamining in the State Oovemroents was evident,
C<«imercial regulations were placed in the Oene-
■nl OoTeromeitt to prevent one State having ad-
vantages ovar another with respect to commerce;
but with respect to health, everv Stale was cer-
tainly the bMt judge, and the claim waa imperi-
Du ; and, if it were under the power of the Oft-
jiernl Government, and OoTemment was to ne-
glect to take the necessary meaaares, the Slate
would itselt lake them. Daring the late sickness
at New York it was tfaongbl Gecessary to appoint
special committees to aid the State Government
in this city.
Thegentleman from Maryland had asked if a
Stare Oovernmenl could stop a vessel from enter-
ing any of its ports? If not, they had been in*
frroging on the laws for several years. The Go-
vernment of New York and Pennsylvania were in
.1.- ^1 haul of preventing skips from enter-
ing their pnrts^ until ther had bi
with respect to theit healthiness.
Gentlemen had talked about their abode being
near or distant from sea-sports. He eonld see no
use in such observations. It was certainly of Bnt
consequence to guard die health of their citixm
by every possible means. He said, at this port,
they had laws respecting wardens; there w«salso
in the different Slates inspection laws, which in
some degree affected commerce, bnt were not the
kind of regulations prohibited by the Ckmstita-
lion ; these did not interfere with the rights of
Congress to recnlate commerce.
Gentlemen had bronglM another snbject into
view, which he could not see any good reason for
doing; they bad charged membenopposed to tbis
law with being unreasonably jeelonscj the power
of the Executive. Sardy, to i»event the land-
ing of diseased persons or infected goods, eo<dd
not hsve any relation xo a jealonsy ofthat power.
This subject was too often introduced, when, he
believed, there was 00 real occasion for it j tbongh
he hoped they neva should be wanting in ento-
laining any justifiable jealonsy of the eztensioa
of any of the powers of Qovernnenl, if thcK
should be conceived to hav« been improperly ex-
ercised, but he knew of nothing of this kind at
^vesent
Mr. W. Shitb said, if this question was coo-
fined to a mere question of acquiescence in Ae
State laws, there might be a propriety in the
Federal Oovemment overlot^ng tboae laws; bat
it was essentially connected with the powers of
Congress on an important subject He had been
surpri)^ to hear gentlemen assert, that this sob-
ject was not of ■ commercial nature. The gen-
tleman from Virgmia [Mr. Gileb] had said, dis-
eases were not articles of importation, or if they
were, they were contraband ; bat the ^ntleman
most know that importations of all kinds were
undenhe regulation of Congress, and eontnbands
as much as any other. Consider how eudemieal
diseases, imported, affect the United States U
large. They do not merely affect the citf where
first imported, but they obstruct the commerce of
all others; they not only embarrassed the com-
merce, but ininred the revenues of the United
Slates. Another point of view in which it had
an effect : The laws r^ulating the collection <d
the impost, were eounietacted and obairaeled by
the laws regulating quarantine ; and wunld an;
gentleman say, that a State L^isbture had the
power to contravene the act of the Federal Go-
vernment, to obetmct all the laws by which it eot
lects its revenues? It bad been said, thai this
subject could be better considered in each indiTi-
duu Sute than we could possiblv settle it Wbo
" " ■ Are we
their arguments on former occasions, wlien speak-
are we? (exclaimed Mr. S.) Are we a Comgn
Government? Gentlemen had already forgotten
ing of the power <^ the House ; they could then do
anything and everything, and the people looked
up to them alone for protection. If tne subject
was vested in the General Government, it was
their business to protect the health of tneir fd-
low-eilisens, as much as their properly ; '
;dbvGoogle
HISTOBT OF CONOI^aS.
Hat, 1798.]
QuaranftRe Mggubiiwu.
[H-opR.
if ihe perforniance of quanmtiDe wms neglected,
■uch neglect natDTaUf teoded to affect the lires
■I well as ibe rerroue and commerce of the citi-
lent ihroughoDt the United States. He. ibere-
foTS, thougnt it ■ nihjeci perfectly wiiliiD the
Fe4enl jurisdictioD; and as there were States
which had no la-ir upon the subject, and u theit
Legislatures had now generalty risen, the passing
of this law would preTSDt the Deceasitjr of resort-
ing lo terolutionary committees of their citizens.
Their refusing to legislate upon this occasioa
would be inviting the people to do the business
by committees. The fentfeman from Pennayt-
of that State. He thought they had some Tery
exceptionable laws, in particular their poll-tax on
persons coming br water into their State. He
thought it would be deviating from the spirit of
the Constitution.
Mr. PAeE said, he should vote for striking out
the first section. He should even wish to vote
BgaioBt the bill itself, as it was an attempt to ex-
tend the power of the Executive unnecessarily.
We rai^ht as well underLake lo form a system of
Clice I»r every city in the Union. The State
'gislsLures could not be interested in opposing
the landing of goods any mare than Congress, and
therefore would not be disposed to do it. except
when tbeir health would be endangered b^ it;
but if Ixe were to put in competition the interest
rights of Natnie, he should certainly adhere -to
the latter at the expense of the former. The
master of the vessel who refused to stop at the
port of Baltimore, agreeably to the ordert of the
officers of the State Qovernment, might have
been prosecuted at common law. If gentlemen
had no otiier object in view besides the presetra-
tiou uf the health of their citizens, they ought to
be satisfied with the second clause, which went to
the directing of the offioers of the United States
to aid the State Qovernments in obliging vessels
to perform the necessary quarantine. The first
clause had only a tendency to extend the preroga-
tive of the Pbesidbht.
Mr. BoDBNE said, gentlemen supposed it to be
the duty of the Prebident to co-operate with
the individual State Oovernments with respect to
the performance uT quantntiue; but he believed
the State* would ihinhitan inwroper bterference,
except he were aulhorixed by uw. It was a duly
of Ihe PaBBiDEiTT, expressljr enjoined by the Con-
stitQtion, to execute the laws of the Union, but it
wan not to execute the Uws of the State. The
genttenMn last up had observed, that self-preserva-
tion required that every State should attend toils
own health ; hut it must be allowed without
some check in the United States thai the com-
merce and rereuues of the United Stales were lia-
ble to be materially affected by the regulations
relative to quarantines; for, if the State Oovern-
ments were once allowed to have the power of
stopping vessels to perform quaraoiiae, thev might
prohibit the commerce of any country at pleasure;
the vessels from any particular country might be .
stopped for so long a time, or totally prohibited!
so B3 to ruin the commerce with sucn country)
on pretence of the vessds containing diseased cat-
tle, or other infection. It would be said, that this
would be an abuse of the power which could not
be expected ; hut, if the States had the power
they could exercise it as they pleased. If they
had the power of regulating quarantine, they
could not carry it into effect, without the aid of
the United Stales, who alone possess the power of
resnlating navigation and commerce. And he
believed no damages could be recovered (as the
gentleman from Virginia supposed) against any
master of a vessel who had refused to obey the
laws of anjr State with respect to the performance
of quarantine, unless the authority of the United
Stales should interpose, by making some lednl
provision for their being carried into effect, so ar
as they may relate lo commerce and navigation.
Mr. HoLLANO said, that in an inquiry into the
subject, wheiher the General QuTernment or
State Legislatures were the best judges of ttie
measures necessary to be taken for the preMrva-
tion of the health of the several Slates, it would
occur, that the extent of conntry being no great,
it would be difficult to say what regulation wouU
be best suited to all the ports of the Union; fbr,
what would be salutary and proper for one, might
be improper for annlher. Prom this circumstance,
it would teem, that each State should have the
power to pass its uwn laws on this bead ; and if
so, the first clause should be struck out To prs-
serve one's health was an article of self-defence.
Every individual bhould take his own meastuea
to preserve his own health, and each Stateshould
judge of thi best way of doing it for its own dia-
iricL He had no objection to the calling in of
the aid of the Oeneral Government to the execu-
tion of the State law, but not to regulate the tinu
and place of performing quarantine. This waa
contemplated in the second resolution, and th«
first was therefore unnecessary. The Constito-
tion being silent with respect to health lawa, he
supposed the passing of them was Isft to the
States themselves. Those who yet have no lawa
on this subject, will make them when neceanry.
The question, in his opinion, was by no meuia ■
commercial one. The genileraan from Maryland
being a commercial man, may be excused from
considering it as one, as he readily conrats moal
tbiogs into a commercial view.
Mr. BaBNTwasin favor of striking out the firat
clause of the bill under consideration, not from
any jealoui>y of the Executive, but because the
Constitution did not authorize such an interfe-
rence. If the doctrines of the gentlemen from
Maryland and South Carolina were true, they
would swallow up all the authority of the Stats
Governments. They had suggested, that if tiM
Slate Legislatures had the power, ihey might naa
it so as to injure the General Government. Ha
would ask, whether ihis woold prove that they
did not possess the power? If thev possessed tha
power, and exercised it so as to injure the inte-
rests of the United States, the Constitution of tba
Union, he believed, would point out a remedy.
.dbyGoogle
tss»
HISTORT OF C(»(CIBES8.
hUsmal Aercnue — Fortifieationt.
[Hat, 1796.
I T^ ventlenMUi from Bouth Carolina bad Mid
I that if tM Stale OoTeTuments were posaeised of
ifaia poffer, they mifht impair tbe rsTenne of the
! Onited States, and that, therefore^ being eminected
Willi ooDunerce, the refula'tingiH quarantine must
! beia thepowerofthe GeaenlOjvernmeDL He
I would ask, whether the different Stales had not
I Ae power of regulating the inoculation for tbe
HnaA-poz? Yet this might be so ordered as to
I mtteet the trade and commerce of that coontr;.
and yet no one wtuild saf tbey bad not the power
, of doii^ this. If ilie construction now contended
I tor was carried to its eKtent, there would be no
hoands to it. The States bad always been con-
■idarcd m possesBiDg the power of regulating qua-
nuHiae. Bach was the opinion at the time of
kdi^tiBg the Constitution, and, under this impres-
MOB, tbe States had passed laws m tbe subject ;
•or did be believe, that necessity, expediency, or
•olicT, required that the power should be changed.
U tfais was the caae, the question could only be
Wou^t focwanl tor the purpose of establishing a
Constitutional principle, which be should cer-
tainly oppose.
Tbe question, for striking out the first section,
was put and carried — 16 to 33 ; and ibe bill was
ordered to be engroned for a third reading.
IHTERJJAL REVENUE.
Mr. W. Shitb moTed that the House sbonld
again reaolve iisdf into a Committee of the Whole
on the report of tbe Committee of Ways and
Ueans, on the subject of Tevenue, which, alter a
notion being made and negatived for discharging
tke Committee of the Whole from a further cou-
(idcration of the report, the Mouse formed itself
Into a Committee of the Whole aceordiagty, and
rfter some little debate, five of the remaining re-
Nlutioos were agreed to, and the sixth, relative
(a allowiog collectors a certain mileage for tra-
veling, was disagreed to. The following are the
lesolu^oBs :
" Badvtd, That the officers of the revsnne ought
to be ndwrned by Uw to require of the dty dktiUaTs,
Uid Ae leflnen of sugar, the verification on oath, of
Vuitt books, once a qnuler, and that it ought to be
■ab the constantdn^ of each distiUers and raflnns,
toaihibtt Ihair boc^ if nqnired.
" M&tkid, That a time ooght to be limited, within
which the enwcter of mirits distUled within the United
States shaU be entitled to s diawbadc ; and thai tAe
llrafcitflst m^ht to be granttd, unieu utiere tht ^por-
tati«» itfiifm tht diltnct or State viho't the tame art
JitiUied, or tie next aiffoimng dittriet or State.
" Setolved, That it would be aipedient to modify the
act imposing duliea on licenses to retailers of liquors,
«o as the MUd retailers should pay in proportion to the
amount of ules, so &t u to divide them into four
" Setohed, That it would be expedient, after dsniand
made of sny tax (eicept on goods imported) and a ne-
gteet or lerasai to pay, to anthorin * collection thereof
" Retolved, That provinon ought lo be made fbr al-
lowing Aawback upon spirits exported (via KiHSBppi)
in vsiSBli of lea> than thirty tons.
" Jcaafasd; That itwoold bc<apedient,aner detnand
made of any aidk tax, aad a neglect oc nAubI to pay,
to dow the officer onpl^ed to ooUect the vma, a cb-
tain mileage br his liavet ont to ooUeet such tax, a*n
and above the DoumixioD which he may be entitled lo
by law." Tltit raelutioii was duagmd to,
Tbe House then took up the resolntion«, when,
on motion of Mr. Oallatik. the latter part of the
second renolotion (printed in italic) was agreod
to be struck out — 43 to 23; and they were re-
ferred to the Committee of Ways and Heuu to
report a bill or bills aeaordlngty.
Frid
r. Hay 13.
Mr. LrviROSTOM presented a memorial l^m
Alexander Maoomb and William Bd^r, stating
that they purchased, in the year 1787, 8S.OO0 acres
of land from the United States, for 80,000 AA-
lars ; that they paid the first insUlment of 39,069
'dollars, but that, afterwards, beiog vnfortanate in
a voyage to China, tbev were nnable to make
sDod the succeeding instalments; ibev now. thetc-
fore, pray, that their origimi purcnaee may be
completed, or that they may be allowed such a
proportion of land as they are entitled to from the
money they hare paid. Referred to the Com-
mittee of Claims.
The bill relative toquarantine was read a third
time, and passed.
Tbe bill tor erecting a light-house on Cape
Cod was received from the Senate with one
amendment; which was agreed to.
On motion of Mr. Nicholab. the Committee
of the Whole, to whom was referred the bill for
taking ofi* the drawback on snuff imported, was
discharged, and the hill was recommitted to a se-
lect committee.
FORTIFICATIONS.
On motion of Mr. W. LrHAN the House re-
solved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the report of the cotnmiltee appointed to take
into consideration the state of the forliGeaiions of
our harbors, the measDres which hare been pur-
sued for obtaining proper sites for arseoala. and'
for replenishing our magaeines with mititary
stores, and to report what further meamm are
necessary respecting the same. Tbe report was
in the fotlowiog words:
"That it "^ - ■"--
War.refcm
the BxecDtiKs tot obtoming ptV *■!>■
inals, and for leplenidus oar laagsiiims wiA
miblary stores ; but that Ibe remit tbcTMif is not ascer-
tained ; the ptogresa, bowaver, is raeh •• to wanant a
b«Jia( that ttte com)deta aceoniplislunent of ttuMe ob-
jects will soon be edbctsd. It >■, tharefbre, the opinion
of tbe Conmittee, that no further LegialalJTe pniTiuin
' live thereto is Docessar; at this time.
From the riew of the preeent stale of the fortifica-
B of our harbors, exhibited in the report of the Secre-
tary of War, the Committee are induced to bdiere,
that soDe filrthel' expenditures will be expedient lo per-
fect and ■Bcnre Bie works already constntcted ; otlier-
wiM, in some instances, they rai^t be uselew, aod in
many, would probably be exposed to very sudden de-
~iy sod destruction ; nevertheless, it does not mfifaar to
,db,Googlc
fflSTORY OF CONGRESS.
iset
Mat, 1796.]
Fortyicalioiu.
[H.M1U
t extend (1m pfonnoiu
mitlee, there ■ppeen to be a Tfij conmdenble «um,
lii : $23,877 G6) of the ibnuei ■pptoprialioiu now un-
expended.
" These ODDcliidotu of the Conunittee ere toimed
witbmit lebience to the fbrtific&tioiiB in the haibor of
New York. At that [dace, the work* ha.ye been laid
out apon a pliui Teiy exteniive, cnostiiicted with dniK-
ble materiAli, and piincipailj ooder the ditecdon of the
Ooremmeiit, and at the eipeiue of that State. Al-
though it does not appear to have been coatemplated
tra t^ United Stale* to fortify anj haibor >o exten-
orelj, and in & manner w expensive, it may, noMith-
atandiDg, be deserving their attention to coniidet how
k die undertaking ia entitled to their encoui«geiqeut
and nppoTt. The Committee, thereibre, beg leave to
•abmit tne (bllawing resolntion :
■■ A«M>ft«d,ThBtthenmiof doDai* be appiopiia-
t»d and paid out of an j moneyi in the Treaiiury ol the
United States, not otherwise appiopriated, for Ue pni-
Mr. W. Lthan, the chainnui of the select
committee, said it was uanecetsaiy to say tuy-
thiog of that part of tlie report which related to
procuring sites for arsenals, and fuTQishiiig —
magazines with military stores^ as the House _
■eswd the iaformatioa on wluch the commillee
founded their opinion. From the report of the
Secretary of War, they fouad that all the lortifi-
catioDs which had been deemed necessary by the
Executire, were nearly completed, or that there
was a suin already appropriated Eufficient tocom-
pleta ihena. except those in the harbor of New
York, of which the SecreUry of Wat had an im-
perfect knowledge, owing to the works at ttiat
place having been constructed mostly at the ex-
pense, and under the direction of the Oorenunent
of that State. The committee finding, however,
that the works at New York required attention,
in order to prevent them from going to decay,
tliey thought it proper same assistance should be
afforded,and therefore determined upon the reso-
lution which they had reported, and hoped it
would meet with the concurrence of the Houe~
Ur. W. SHiTb did not know that they were
a aituation lo attend to the fortifications at pre-
aeni; if they were, he thought the harbor of
Charleston stood in as much need of attention —
any other. He shotild, therefore, move, tb
CuarlestoD should be added to New York, in t
resolution.
Mr. Williams said, that it appeared from the
leport of the Secretary of War, that 18,000 dol-
lars had already bees appropriated to Clurleston ;
be trusted, therefore, Uere could be no imme-
diate necessity for a further sum for that port.
The city of New York was in such a siluatiixi
two years ago, when a war vaa expected, the Le-
gislature of that Slate, finding the United States
mie not likely to undertake to fortify their port,
Ibemselves voted 200,000 dollars for thai purpose,
asd for the defence of the fiontien of that State.
IS of New York had
given very eonsiderable ansistance towarda tJM
effecting the plan. All the United States bad
affordedto them for these works, were 17,522 4ol-
Wben Kentlemen remembered that ifl tbe
city of New York was paid the last year fooj'
fifteenths of the whole revenue of the United
States, this must be acknowledged to be a mete
trifte towards putting that port mto a situatioa of
__l: 5_r .. : jj ^j^ enemy.
of the Bngineer em-
ployed upon the fortifications at New York,
amounting to the sum of 101,968 dollars, whic^
would be yet required to complete the whole of
the works upon the three islands. He uadentood
from the Secretary of War, who bad been witb
the Committee, that after all the demanda wne
satisfied, there would be about 12,500 doUan
remaining. This sum, Mr. W. said, he believad
would put their works in such a state as at least
would prevent them from being injured by tbe
' Iter. The Legislatuia of the State
ithout making any appropriation, bat
lef^ tbe business to the United States. This be-
ing the case, he hoped tbe Committee wcmld aaa-
seut to vote the sum be bad mentioned for tke
purpose of at least preventing the works fron go-
— to decay.
S. Smith said, he observed that nearly
;%
Charleston. The gentlemen from Charleston m
New York wanted further advances, and be si
posed others would be wanting tbe same. ]
should more to have Baltimore noticed, and he
doubted not it would pass around to all the sea-
u>rtB. He had, however, no Dbieclion to aid the
State of New York, and would agree that they
should apply 100,000 dollars of the debt thef
owed to tbe General Government for tbii pur-
Mr. Datton (the Speaker) said, he watdd MOt
agree even to the proposition of tbe gentleDaan
from Maryland. He could not agree to any aiua
beinff voted for the fortifications at New York,
untila cession was made of the property to the
Ooveniment of the United States.
Mr. QiLBsaT said, if gentlemen meant to show
that there was a bona^^oe debt dne from the State
of New York to tbe General Qorerument, be
would meet them upon that ground ; bnt he wna
sorry it was now brought forward. New York
had herself done a great deal towards fortifying
her harbor ; she only expected from the United
States what she was entitled to in common with
the other States. He hoped, therefore, the reao-
lution of the Committee would be agreed to.
A motion was made for the Committee ta rise,
in order to postpone tbe business.
Mr. LiviNOBTON said, be should be against the
Committee's rising, ana he could not help bcidg
surprised at tbe motion, and the reason assigned
for IL They were assembled there, he said, to
legislate for the whole Uiuted States; k* feh
himself nol only a Beprasentative of New Vo^
but of the Continent m generaL He looknd to
Ute iAiereat of the whole. Ha bagmi, thwifcwt
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
1364
H.or.R.]
Fbrtxficatiim*.
prci[Haetjr 0
the man who Mlrocated the c&uae of apsTticulai
port ironld not be charged with paTdatttf .
The questiOD before the Commiiiee was. the
ietv of TotiDg a sDm of moaef far the d^
of a Tery material port in the Union. Qen-
n who recollect the situation of the city of
New York in the late war, will know the imj
mnce of having that port well defended. M
proloDged the late warso much as the enemy be-
ing in powessioD of that poitl What would pro-
long another war, if it were unfortunately to take
place, so much as the possession of that port ? I»
It no^ then, said he, of importance to have it well
defeodedl Certainly. It is improbable (hat it will
ever be attacked by land forces alone, the most
May method of attacking it is by a fleet ; but when
ooee possessed, it becomes difficult to dislodge an
enemy from it.
He did not agree with his colleagues that the
United States sbould only vote a sum which
should be sufficient to preserve the works from de-
cay i he thought they ought lo vote a sum to com-
plete them. It was a duly which the United
States owe to themiielTes, not to the State of New
York, to fortify that port azainst the albck of an
enemy. He was sorry to near brought forward
the Blate of New York and the United Stales ;
but the money wanted to finish the works in ques-
ted
1, was not for New York onl^r, but for the Ui
States at large, as it was their interest to i
feud that city from the at tack of an enemy.
Gentlemen belicTe that, all our foreign arrange-
ments being settled, there is no occasion for pay-
ing attention at present to fortifying of harbors.
He would obserre, that onr relation to foreign na-
tions tru of a very uncertain nature, and that
nothii^ would show our prudence more than by
Uteodiog to the security of our harbors in this
tune- of peace ; for, if the business was postponed,
■nd any foreisn Power should disrenrd tne ta-
credoesB of a Treaty, New York might be taken
possession of without resistance.
Since the tnnaactions of New York had been
called in question, be believed they micht speak
ot Aem with honor. What State, besides it, had
given (300.000, and ' almost the labor of the whole
city, towards completing the fortifications of their
hubott Thb he thought no trifling exertion;
and though it may be said it wms for their own
defence, it was likewise for the defence of the
United Slates.
With respect to the wants of any other port,
they had no eslimales at present brought forward.
An estimate was before itieCommittee from New
Yorfcand, therefore, he hoped it would be agreed
to. When estimates should be brooght forward
for other ports, he would vote for them, if it were
judsed proper or necessarv to fortify such ports.
Hr. Oattoh (the Speaker) could not forbear
to express his opinion that the importance of the
fotttfcalion of the three islands, viz : Oovemor's,
iUli^s,aDd Bedioe's Islands, had been very mneh
exaggerated by the gentlemen from New York.
..He really believed it to be a loss of Ubor aad ex-
pease to fortify them with a view to defeud the
my'a fleet in case of war. Thev who should rely
upon that defence) would fatally deceive them-
*ff,V,
city against the approach and attacks of an ene-
. » *hat
selves, for nothing was to him more certain than
that with a leading breeze and favoiable tide,
ships-of-war would pass those islands however
well fortified, supplied, and garrisoned, and wouJd
laugh at their impotent eSorts to sink or even
check them. He was ready to admit that they
would be useful in aiding the city to protect itself
againnt contagious diseases or riotafi'equently pro-
duced by the crews of armed vessels lying too
neat the town. In enforcing regulations for per-
forming quaraatioe or embargoes, or for the ut-
chorage of vessels at convenient distances, they
would undoubtedly be advantageously instrument-
al, but when gentlemen spok£ of them as afibrding
complete defensive protection to the city, and
drew from ihpnce an argument in favor of a far-
ther expenditure of more than one hundred thou-
sand dollars, be conceived it his duty to slate to
the Committee his determination to oppose such
rather waste of money,aad his reasons,
rasof opinion that if ever New York
was to be defended by land batteries against a
fleet, it must be done at the Narrows, ana at vast
expense by fortifications on Staten and Long Is-
lands, ana upon an artificial island to be made be-
tween the two, which although very possible,
would be a very difiSeult and cosily work. He al-
so declared that even if it were practicable lo de-
fend the city effectually by fortifying the three
islands, he nevertheless would never rote one shil-
ling more to be applied to that purpose until a ces-
sion of jurisdiction was made to the United StaUi^
as had been done by New Jersey in one instance,
and by other States in frequent instances.
Mr. W. Lth AN said, he had had information
from men on the subject who were as well ac-
quainted with the nature of fortifications as the
gentleman from New Jersey, ll was their opii»T
ion that the harbor of New York could be fortified
by the means now taken. The Committee, how-
ever, did not go into the subject. Tbej conndei-
ed only the sums expended, the sums necessary to
put the works into a safe state, so as not to be in-
jured by the weather. They were cooviaced of
the importance of the place, and that it was a
vulnerable part of the Union; nor did they con-
ceive that because the citizens of New York
lived in the most vulnerable place in the Union,
they were to defend themselves. It appeared to
them that New York bad not received its foil
'is which had been
the harbors of the
United Slates.
It was said, no assistance ought to be given to
these works because a cession was not roade of
them to the General Government. Such e.
he saidAad been made but in few iostaaees, iti
except Delaware.
In the last session of Congress, it was said that
cession was not necessary. It was said par>
chase was sufficient, and they had accepted of a
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
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Arft/icaliont.
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He hoped those gvotlenun who did not belopg
to New York would aee the justice of this claim
■nd aoppori it. With mpect to tlie debts owing by
New York to the Union, when the question should
come before them, (which it certainly was not
now) he should give his opinion upon it.
Mi. Swahwice was of opinion with the gentle-
man from New York [Mr. Livikoston] that it
ma Iheii datv to legislate for the whole; but it
was rety evident, he thought, from the conduct
of that gentleniGui himself, that they could not al-
together diyesi themseUes of the feelings of locai-
ily. Neither did he think it necessary that they
should do to. It was perhaps an adrantage to the
whole, that every man had a propensity to do that
which would beat correspond with the interests
of hit constituents ; for, oy this means, the whole
Union would have a fair chance of bemg equally
seiTed, since it was equally represealed.
Mr. S. Slid, he was (renerally in favor of forti-
fying our harbors; because, woilst we discard all
ideasof fleets, we ouj^ht to attend to our iateroal
defence, without which, we should be too much
exposed to the attacks of an eaemy. But he mast
confess, he joined in opinion with those who wish-
ed to extend them on a large and competent scale.
He was told Peoasylvaoia required some additions
to her works. She had made a grant of Mud Is-
' land Fort to the Union, not doubting but itn pro-
per preservation would warmly engage the con-
■ideration of Government.
HewouldcalltotherecollectioDof thegentleman
from New York [Mr. Livimoston] what he had
md on the subject of piers. He was against the
IMawafe being partiaLy attended to. When 1
eamefOTwaid with respect to piers, said Mr. 8.,
il was because they were wanted. That gentle-
man now came forward to ask for attention to the
fortifications of New York, because they were
wsnted. One of the greatest advantages which
lh« city of New York had over PhiladelphiB,
w«> the facility with which its harbor could be
entered at all seasons ; but the danger to which it
was expoaedin timeof war, wasa balance against
the advaatages it had in time of peace.
Mr. S. said, as he trusted the gentleman Would
not oppoee the erection of piers in the Delaware
whan necessary, he would not appose the requir-
ed asMstance to the fortiflcations at New York.
He thought the Hotise could not be employed
better than in keeping up such means of defence
«■ w« had in our power.
Ur. LivtitasTOM said, he did not choose to dis-
pnle the military knowledge of the gentleman
from New Jersey [Mr. Dattor] but he had some
ooafidence in the knowledge of t tie PRBSioaNT of
turn Unites Statbs with respect to fortifications.
It could not be with a reference to the enforcing
tf a performance of quanmtiae, which a single
fUn might effeot, that he had approved of tne
plan ot the fortifications which had been pursued
for the defence of New York. The Legislature
of New York, with the best advice they could
procura oa the eabject, had expended $300,000, the
Lraialatnre of the United States had granted |i7-
Sa^ toward* their plan, and it bad bmi approved
by the PaBsiositT; yet thegentleman from New
Jersey seemed to speak as if he were the sole
judge of what was the best defence for New York.
He Dimself was no engineer; but he had convers-
ed with engineers on the subject, and had been
told that the plan was a good one.
One word as to the cession. It was said New
York had not made any cession of these fortiSca--
tions to the Union, and, therefore, they were noi
bound to pve any assistance towards tbeij com-
pletion. In what situation, he asked, would the'
State of New York have been, had they made
this cession'? They would have made a cession
to the United Slates of the grounds on which the
fortifications stand, and then the United States
would have refused to appropriate the moneys
necessary tocomplete them. So they must have
sat with their hands folded, without assistance.
He thought the State of New York had done
wisely, at least to keep posseRsion of the property
in their own hands. When the United States
were disposed to complete the works, a cession,
he doubted not, would willingly be made, but not
till then.
His friend from Pennsylvania [Mr. Bwanwick]
had recurred to his obeervations with respect to
the erection of piers in the Delaware. li^ then
and now thought them a local advaQtase to Phil-
adelphia, which ought to be done at their owA ex-
pense, as much so as docks, or any other conveni-
ence for shippincj but what he requested was a
difierent thing. The people of New York, at the
time of forming the new Constitution, had been
much opposed to adopting it on account of some
firiaciples ingrafted into it about which they had
earful aiipreliensioiu. Every consideration was
urged to induce them to accept of it. Alluring
prospects were held out to them to accept of great
advantages that must result in consequence of the
adoption of it, and, sinee they had accepted it, he
called upun the other States to afiord them that
protection which they had a right to expect
The gentleman from Pennsylvania had told
him that, in expectation of bis volinir for the piers
wanted in the Delaware, he shoold support the
present motion ; he wished for this, but he could
not agree to aoeept it on such conditions. He did
not think the erection of piers in the Delaware
within the purview of the United States ; but. what
he asked for was, assistance in the completion of
works to defendone of the first cities in the Union.
Mr. Williams trusted, when gentlemen consid-
ered the great expense which had attended the
fortification of the harbor of New York, they
would at least consent to grant snch a sum to their
support, as would at least preserve them from de-
cay.
The law had authorized the Pbesidbmt to erect
such fortifications in the different ports of the
Union as he should judge proper. The whole sum
of money which had been appropriated for the
purpose was expended, within $23,S77 ; but eig^t
or ten thousand of these are yet due, so that there
remain only from thirteen to fifteen thousand dol-
lars ffludisposed of. The Committee had made uk
estitnate with respect to the fortiflcatioiu at New
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HISTOKT OF CONCffiKSS.
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Fbrt^eaHam.
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York which would nearly come to that uiui, by
wiiich the works would tie preseived from decar.
And Burelf , said Mr. W., the United Steites woold
not wish that «11 the money which hid been ex-
pended and the immense labor which the inhabi-
tants of that city bad Tolaalarily contributed
■honld be lost, for the want of a little timely assiit-
ance. He thought the State of New York had
a ConttiiutioDaf deniaDd upon the Union for as-
sUtance. [Here Mr. W. cited that part of the Con-
stitution which says Con^ets shall provide for
tlteoommondefencemd general welfare, &c.] He
would ask. what had been done for New York in
retmm for the yast Mvenoes which were collected
&om itf Very Kttle, indeed. Notwithstanding
. what had been said by the gentleman from New
Jersey, be believed tlie fortiGcationH, when com-
pleted, would be a cood defence for New York-
He was formerly of the same opinion with that
gentleman ; bat, from the information he had re-
ceived on the subject, and, from a view of the
works, he belicTM the city would be well fortifi-
ed, when they were finished. Nothing but a large
fleet could affect them \ and in that case, be l»-
Uevad ike Narrows was tk< only place at which
the city could be saccessfally defended.
It was not a trifling ihing^ he conceived, to the
UBiwd St«ies, to have the city of New York well
■eetired ; for if they recurred to the public ae-
couate, it would be foui^, that since the com-
neoeemMtt of the Government in 1788, in that
iHty bad been received one fourth of tbe revenue
of the whole United Sutes. Was this citv, then,
not worthy of some attention 1 It certainly was)
for it must be aaeotuited one of the first cities io
the Uftiou, and in proporiion to its prosperity
would the revenue of the Union increase. He
hoped, therefore, there would be no objection to
an appropriation ol the sum he bad mentioned,
irf."
e tbe works from destruction ;
an appro
in orter ^
by doing this, it wontd not only add to ihi
■ng the revenue of the United States, but also
operate as an encouragement to tbe extension of
tSatcity; policyas well as interest justified the
amropriation.
Mr. S. Shitb did not expect this subject would
have occu|>ied so much time as had already been
ooDsnoMd in it He agreed that they should con-
aider themselvei as members of the whole Union;
but that members were concerned chiefly for the
ports in their own States, was pretty evident from
tbe present qoestion. Three or four members had
already been up to speak for improve me nts in the
port* they repiesent, and he doubted not they
•hould have others making similar applications.
He did not meau to reflect upon gentlemen for
thus acting. He felt the same impulse.
The Becretary of War reported that Oov etnor's
Island was complete ; but, when he turned to
Baltimore, he found nothing done. Though he
had a great respect for the Union, yet he must re-
apect the situation of his constituents where every
Tha gentleman from New York, [Mr. LivtNo-
•Ttm] aeamed iodiapoaed to set off a part of tbe
debt due from that State to the Union, by expend-
ing it on tbe fortificHtions. He ousht not to take
ofienee at this. If the State of MarylaiMl bad
been indebted to tbe Union $150,000, he should
have been glad lo have set off a part of it ia «
similar way. He would, however, much rather
all the States would pay their debts. They should
then have four millions in hand which tney bad
not. The gentleman bad spoken of the sacri6e«a
made by the Slate of New York in coming int»
(he Union. Tbe blood and treasnre of every Bute.
had been liberally expended in obtainiag their in-
dependence, and it was for the common intereat
that they should unite in preserviug and complet-
ing it. The State of New York was in a riefa
and flouiisfaiDg state ; she had no taxes ; aitd yet.
when he mentioned the paying of a juat debt the
gentleman took offence.
Mr. S. said, he agreed perfecllr with the gen-
tleman from New Jersey, [Mr. Dattoh] that tbe
defence would be futile; &o mnek so. ikat kc
would venture to sav tbat'any fleet whisb wovld
ever come to attacx that port, would have no
dread of these fortifications. HJi objceticn was
to their taking up the thing at all at utis late part
of tbe session ; but to take it up early in tke next
sexsioD.
Mr. WiLLiAHB said, there was a mistake in tbe
report of the Secretary crfWar respecting Gover-
nor's Island. It was not half fioidied. It wwU
take (40,060j to complete it. He had taken paina
to get the mistake explained, by procuriim the es-
timate from the CommisEiooera, and Engineei
employed on the fortification, whieh he bad r^iA.
Mr. Haveks aaid, that when the subject of for-
tify lag the port and harbor of New York vnsvB-
der the consideration of the LegislaUre ol that
Slate, it was supposed that the birbor could not
be put in a complete state of defence against a
large maritime torce imless forlifications wem t»
be erected at the Narrows, actording to the plan
whieh had been suggeeted by the gentlemaa frooi
New Jersey, [Mr. DAyroM,} and whieh eeold set
be efiected, unless an artifieial island were to b«
made on a shoal on one side of the channel, on
which a large fori and battery must be ctetted,
and auoiber fort and battery opposite to it, on th«
shore of Slateu Island ; but it was estimated tbat
such a mode of defence could not be com|detcd at
a less expense than two millions and a hal£ or
perhaps three millions of dollars; it was therefore
out of tbe quesiioD, so far as it respected tbe re-
sources of the Slate. But notwithstanding Ais,
tbe Legislature conceived that il would be a psiH-
otic exertion on their part, so far as reepeeud ib«
United Stales, as well as necessarr on the pciaeir
pie of self-defence, for them to apply the rewnreea
of Ihe Stale to tbe erection of fortiWckwa in ibe
any sudden attacks of any considerable foree by
sea. And this meaaure appeared the more iadis-
pensably necessary, when it was found that the
GovemtnCBt of the United Slates bad gnaied ao
small a sum for the defence of the port, aaalcaily
proved that they were eUher nnaUe or r - ""-
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F\fHificatiow.
[H-wB.
to coniribaie the lums that meii necessarj[ to pot
the port aod harbor in a sita&ticAi that might b«
oalled B Etate of defence. The plan whicD had
been adopted of erecting' fonifieatioDs on nnh of
the three islands in the harbor, he beliered, was
the bnt that coald hare been devised, under all
^e existing cireumBtaoces ; he therefore differed
in opinion with the f^ntleman frran New Jersey,
[Mt.Dattom,] with reipecltoihe ndvantage that
mnst resnlt from complethiK these foriiBcationa.
ud conceived that the gentleman had expreasea
himself in loo strong terras, when he bad said
that these forti&catioas conld be of Utile use ex-
cept to eoinpel vessels to ride quarantine. He
said that be had viewed these fortifications him-
self, and had conversed with engineers and per-
30BS of military skill on the sabjeet. and believed
thai when (hey were competed tSey would be
equal to iha defence of the city against a eonnder-
able force b y sea, and was inclined to thiak that a
force of four or five &hip9-of-t he-line would not
venture to attack the city, when they mtist neces-
-sarily pass and repass or lie before fortifications
so constructed as to fire red-hot shot in a variety
of directions, from cannon placed on a new Iciod
of carriages, which elevated them above the
With respect to what had been said by aome
JBDtlemen, that a complete eession of the juiis-
ietion of the gronnds or islands on which the for-
tifications have been erected ought first to bfe made
ta the United States, before tbev expend any mo-
ney to complete them, be shook! only answer as
his colleague [Mr. LiviHasTON] had already done,
that it "was not at all probable, nor cotild it rea-
sonably be expected, that the Legislature of the
State of New York wonld make a ceesion of the
jarisdictijn of tho«e places to the United States,
fectual measures to complete the fortification!
sneh a atanner as to make it appear probable that
they irould prove an effectoal protection to the
city of New York against any sudden attack by
Some gentlemen had said, that the sums which
had been expended by the State in erecting those
fortifications ought to be set off aninsi the debt
which was said to be due from the State to the
IJnited State* ; to this he should only reply, that
those gentlemen had, on a former occasion, been
T«lunte«r! in undertaking to pay the debts of the
State of New York, when they assumed the debts
of the Kevera! States. The State of New York
had never requested them to undertake to pay the
debts of the State ; they had the means m their
poirer of discharging those debts themselves, and
would probably have done it, had not the United
States interfered and Toluatanly taken this burden
upon themselves. The greater part of this debt
Mid to be due to the United States had been
tracted in that way, and gentlemen should r>
leet -when they nid things which implied that the
«ODdDet of the State was censurable because they
had bM yet laanifarted a dispositioti ta pay "-■'
debt, tluit they had, on ■ former oecaston, I
rs in l»iaging the United Stated into thi*
predicament. It had been at^nowledged, in the
coarse of thb debate, that when public moneys
were intended to be distributed for this or similar
purposes it was a thing that was always to be
expected that local prejudices would prevail, and
that gentlemen woold naturally wish that a largo
portion of the public moiKys snould be expended
m defending that particular port or part of tha
''' ' from which he might happen to come,
.._..t this was therefore a tbiBc that wns to ba
expected from the members ftomme State of New
York ; bat, if it was acknowledged that local pr»-
judices of this kind would have an influence is
the representation of the United States, there was
equal reason to presnme that similar prejudieea
would prevail in the representation of the State
of New York, and that therefore it could not rea-
sonably be expected that the Legislature of that
State could be easily induced to expend further
sums of mMiey in completing these lortificationa;
and he believed he could say, with truth, that tha
members who came fivm parts of the State !«•
mote from the city of New York, had been widi
difficnlty prevailed upon to vote in favor of ex-
pending the sums of money that had already been
laid out on these fbrtifieatione, and therefore it
could not be presumed that they would vote bt
the expenditure of further sums for that purpose.
He believed, therefore, that the United States had
now a choice before them, either to agree to die
report of the committee and expend the anm of
money stated by them as necessary to preserve
these fortificmlioDB from decaying, or lose all tha
advantage which must result to the United Stales
from the large sums of money which had been
already expended by the State of New York ia
erecting them. The sum proposed was certainly
not a laive one, and he hoped that the other pnla
of the United States would consider the denaca
of the city of New York of so much importance,
as to induce them to expend the moneys whlaD
had been reported by the committee as neceasary
for that purpose. ^
Mr. Hehdhrson moved that the Committea
mi^t rise. They had not time to coosider tha
subject at present, so as to do what was necessarf
in every part of the Union ; ai>d as there appeared
to be little danger likely to arise from a postpone-
ment of the business, he hoped it would he poet*
The motion for the Committee to rise iras piH
and carried.
Mr. KrroBBLL moved that the Committn be
discharged frcnn a further eonsideraiion of the
Mr. LiviNOB-roM hoped the yeas and naysTanld
be taken upon that question. It was extraordi-
nary, he said, that when a port was lying in the
defeooeless state in which New York lav, a giant
of money should be reeved, because laere nwye
other ports in the Union which wanted also, bn
from which no estimates had been received.
Mr. HiLLflODSG said be bad no objeetisn to th«
Eas and nays beinc taken. The eubjwt ahouU
re bean braughttbrwardnare early intheaea-
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F\irt^catimi».
[Hat, 179C.
■ioD, and then it migbt hsre been attended to.
He was willinc to gire bU aid in protecting the
eit; of New York. He felt interested in it; but
be saw DO neceiaitr for plunffios into the buainen
at ODce^ He ihodld vote for aischarging the Com-
mittee. Tbeie were yet aevenieen thousand dot-
IftTs of the appropriated money remaining onez-
panded, which, if the PaseiDBNT pleased, he could
apol; to that object.
Mr. LivuforroN believed there was not that
ram nnexpeoded.
Mr. GiLsaBT hoped the Committee woald have
lenre to sit again. A small appropriation, he said.
wai only wanted to secure all the money that baa
bitfaerlo beeit expended upon the forlificatioiu.
This was not to be withheld because it wa* im-
proper to Kiant it, but because other ports required
attention also. It was the intereat, and be con-
ndered it to be the duty, of the Union, to secure
the mcmey which had already been expended. It
had been said, the lortificatiooB would be of uu
■erriec. He was sorry this had not been dis-
covered sooner. He understood ihe^ were uoder-
takm under the direction of the United Sutei.
Mr. W. Smith said he should rote for the Com-
mittee's having leave to sit a^in ; not for the
Mme reason as the gentleman from New York.
but because he wished some attention to be paiu
to the fortificatioiu of Charleston. He wished
thia, first, because be thought there was i
nrgrat occasiou to attend to Uie fottiGcations there
than at New York; secondly, because the State
of New York owed the United States a large debt;
and thirdly, because that State was immensely
lich. They owed a balance, which bad been as-
certained by a eonunission, sanctioned by their
delegates, on the 1st of January^ 1790, of more tboo
two miltions of dollars. The mterest on this sum
ms upwards of on* hundred thousand dollars aa-
Boally, and there was now due for interest alone
upwairds of six hundred thousand dollars. So
that the sum necessary for the completion of their
fortifications migbt very well be set off against
this interest. He found, from a statement of their
finances, thai this Slate had upwards of two mil-
lions of dollars of funded debt, besides large sums
in their treasury, and that they bad do taxes ; and,
whilst they had large treasures, and no taxes, he
did not see why they should be attended to in pre-
ference to other Blaies. He thought it hod the
least claim to be favored by the Oeaeral GkiverD-
ment of any State in the Union. South Carolina,
he said, had already advanced twenty thousand
dollars out of her treasury towards their works,
and the State of South Carolina was by no means
in the same flouri^ng condition as New York;
they were obliged to pay taxes, and they owed
eoitaid«nble debts.
Mr. LiTiKoaToii did not suppose that this ques-
tion was to be tried by the meriu of diflerent
State*. It bad been said, by dte member from
Bcmth CanOina, [Mr. W. SmithJ that the State
of New York came with an ill grace to ask &von.
What I (exclaimed Mr. L.) alter expending two
himdred thousand dollar* out of titetr own trensu-
ij, OD the fortiftcations «r their haibtw, shall the
State of New York be said to be uking a bvor.
when they ask for a uooll sum of the General
OovemmcDt to keep the workf from deetrociioBl
This was a request to avoid which genlleinen
found themselves under a necessity to go intoi
business with which it had not cettainly any coo-
nexioD. Tbe gentleman from South CarcJiaa
thought himself JDstified in asking for sappori to
the works at Charleston, because they ow^ no-
thing to tbe Oeneral GovernmcDt. He did Dot
think this a place for recrimination ; if he did, be
should not fiod himself wanting in materials. He
could look upim the three millions of debt from
which South Carolioa had been exooeraied — he
could look upon the desertion of New York wbeo
it most wanted assistance in the time of the war —
and he could have added that this verr State had
since been charged with a debt whicn bad been
acctunulated by the delioqueDcy of other States.
This was DOt tbe object, or he could easily enlaige.
All that the Sute of New York at present ssked
was, a few thousand dollars, to prevent their works
from going to ruin. GSentlemen talked of their
wants for their respective ports; let them bring
forward their claims. He should be disposed to
vote for the assistance wanted by the gentleman
from South Carolina. He did not know what was
necessary, but, wheo he did, he truated he should
be williiu; to grant such a sum as mighi be want-
ing. It bad been asked, why this biutness Itad
been delayed ? It would be foond that the sub-
ject was taken up early in the ssHioo, but that it
bad been reiardea by varions causes, which eould
not be avoided.
Mr. WiLLiAxa said, the committee had been
appointed early in the session, they had bad ntaa^
objects in view, and for two or three weeks theu
chairman was ill. The gentleman from Sovth On-
rolina had said, that because New York owed a debt
to the Union, they bad no claim ttpon tbe UoiMi;
another gen tleman, from Maryla nd, [Hr. S. SmtthJ
had observed that they would give New York rre-
dit for what she expended ; but. Mr. W. ohserred,
these obaervaticHts might he well spared, e^wcinlly
when they considered the great aerifiee New
York had made by giving up such vast revenue —
that their capital, and six counties adjacent to it,
was in tbe hands of the enemy during the w»t —
that one-third of the ciu of New York was borat
by tbe enemy, also tbe fine town of Esopos — their
frontiers overrun, and the buildings destroyed —
and that not one county in the whole State es-
caped from the rava^ of tbe enemy. And, not-
withstanding all this, it is said New Ytn^k is m.
debtor State. Why 1 Because a retroepective net
had passed for the settlement of the aeeounta be-
tween the United States and individual Suie^
varying from the compact under the Confedem-
tion, and adopting a prmci|de which could not be
Citified, to Wit: estimating according to the auiB>
iorinhabitaats,«evenyearsafler Ihewar, vbcn
the number was increased douid& nitd with those
from creditor States, which, if they had not le-
mored, would have beeo eotited to reeeive, inrtead
"' "iTing i and alsoy the CommiasioDera makiag
inarmue for ameles ftimiahed by tb« Ststt
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Mir,1796.J
of New To^ It pricea fixed by the limitation
of that Sute, irhen for the like articles and de-
livered at the same time with ihoie of another
State, for which other States were allowed ten
times as much as the Stale of New York. Mr.
W. would be ready lb proTe they owed nothing,
He should be glad to meet gentlemen on that
gionnd, when be would show that the debt was
upon a foundation which eould not stand.
The gentleman from South Carolina said, the
State of New York was rich, and therefore they
had no claim upon the Union. If they were rich,
they ought to be encouraged. If the States were
not rich, it was the fault of their members. Th(
inhabitants of the State of New York were an in-
dustrious people, who took lime by the forelock,
but, because tney had a few coppers in their pock-
ets, was that a reason why they should be taken
from them 7 He gloried ihal their State was rich,
and if other Slates were equally indiulrious, they
would be equally rich-
Mr. W. LvHAN spoke in faror of the Coratuit-
tee's having leave to sit again.
Mr. BouKNB observed, that the gentleman from
New York said it was absolutely necessary that
something should be done lo prevent their works
from going to destruction, aad that if nothing was
now appropriated that must be the ease. He be-
lieved tnerewas a considerable sum of the money
appropriated which remained nosipended, and
the President, if he believed It necessary, would
doubtless suffer it to be expen;ded on the works at
New York.
Mr. HiLLBoDBB said, there was twenty-three
thousand dollars unexpended, which would be
more than enough for New York.
The Committee now rose, and on motion being
made for the Cdmmittee to have leave to sit
■gain, Mr. Livingbtom called for the yeas and
uys, which were taken, and stood — yeas 14, nays
64— as follows:
TiAs.— Tbaodonu Bailey, Wiffiam Coopa, Eiekiel
Bilbeit, Hmry den, John Hathoni, jMiallMn N. H>-
•ens, Edward IdnagKUia, William Ljman, Frtnds
HaltKme, William Bmilh, Uriah Tiaejr, John E. Van
Allen, Philip Van Cntlandt, and John WiHiaoM.
Nati.— AbfahaiB BaMwin, David Bard, Thomas
Blount, Baaiami> Bonme, Theophihio Bradbniy, Bidi-
trd Brent, Nadtan 617011, Dampaev BnrgM) Suntid J.
CabeU, Tboaiia CtaOonie, John Chiton, Jodioa C«lt,
Jeremiah Ciabb, Ooorm Dtnt, Samnal Earia, WilKau
Findley, AU«t Foster, Dwight Faatir, Jose FnnkKn,
Albeit Gdilatin, William B. Otie*, Janwi Oilleqpia,
ChaniMSj OooMch, Andrew Qtvgg, Bog«i Oriswold,
William B. Gime, Ocoi^ Hanood:, Bobnrt Goodloe
Btrper, Carter B. HarriMm, Thmnaa HaMlev, John
Hsath, Thonui Hendanon, Jaaica Hfllhoiwa, William
Hindman, Jamaa Holland, Aann Kitdwll, John Wilkes
Kitten, Oeorge Leonaid, Matthew Locks, Bomoal Ly<
man, fiamnd Madav, Nathaniel Maoon, John Htllodte,
Andrew Moota, WiUiam Vans Marray, Anthony Now,
John Nicbcdaa, Joatoh Parker, Frandi Preaton, Jtriin
J<4in Bwaawk^ ZaphaiUBli Swift, Abaakn
Owafe Thatdm, RiAard Tbomaa, "-'- "^
P^H Wafantth, and JOtbui Wim
Spnm.ji'-.
an Talom,
The Committee of the Whole was then dis-
charged from the further consideration of the
report.
Mr. Tracy, from the Committee of Claim^
made a report on the petition of the widow of
Ooieral Greene, which stated that Messrs. Harri-
son and Blackford,, merchants, of Qreat Britain,
had obtained a final decree, in the Court of Equity,
of Charleston, against the heirs of Qtueral Qreene,
for a som of more than 7,000 pounds sterling, as
surety for the house of Hunter, Banks, and Co.;
that thiS'SQrety being given for the necessary pro-
visions of tne Southern Army, when it was in the
most distressed condition, at a time when he had
no other alternative than to risk his private for-
disband the Army, his widow prs'
payment from Congress. The report, wnic
for
favor of the petitioner, was twice read, and re-
ferred to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
On a motion for postponement of the reference,
on the ground of some doubts on the subject, a
number of observations to<A place, bat the motion
being withdrawn, the report was referred as
Mr. Gallatin called up two resolutions, to the
following effect, laid upon the table by the Com-
mittee 01 Ways and Means some days ago:
" Saoletd, That dollars be pmrided for the pay-
ment of Toriona incidental demands, oeeasioniid bybrida
of perKMiB for crime* and ofleneei during the late insnr-
rection, not heretofore previdad for.
■' Soaked, That an additional compensation ought
to be made Sir the seivicaa of moi^wls, jnrota, and
witneiaea, in the Conrta of the Unitad States dnring
that period;"
Which were agreed to, and a bill or bills or-
dered to be brought in.
Mr. S. Smith wished the House to resolve itself
to a Committee of the Whole on a bill which
__iginated in the Senate, to regulate the compen-
sauon of clerks ; which was aecordingly done.
The Committee rose, without making amend-
ments. The House took it up; when Mr. W.
Smith proposed to add : " That there be allowed
for the year 1796, to the principal and other clerks
in the office of the Secretary of the Senate and
Clerk of the House of Representatives doUara
each, in addition to lo their compensation." The
amendment was agreed to, and the bil'
be read a third time to-n
CONTESTED BLBOTION.
Mr. Vbkabli, from the Gonunitiee of Elec*
tion*, mode a further repent respecting the elec-
' ' in of Ibrael Shitb, stating the namber of votea
the towna of Hancock and Kingston, and that
waa by accident that the warrants of eleetim
.. ire not sent to tkoae places. Ordered to lie on
the table.
SATUKDav, May It-
Mr. NioBOLaa, from the committee to whom
was referred the btU from the Senate relative ta
the relief of pBraonaimpriaoned for debt, made a
raport of aome mbwucdU to the bill, iriiich
e bill ordered to
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HISTORY OF CONGBESa
137«
H.OFR.J
Weigktt mtd Utaturta.
were ordered to be referred to a Committee of
the Whole on MoDday.
The bill from the Senate for regulalii^ the
compensatioD of clerks, was read a third time ;
bat on molion of Mr. Eitcuell, who said he
COMPENSATION TO PUBLIC OFFICERS.
The House resolred itself into a. Committee of
the Whole on tiie bill making an additional al-
lowsnce to certain public officers for the year 1796,
which it went through, with an ameudmeac, in-
cluding amengEt the officers who»e salaries are
C posed to be advanced for the present year, the
Telarr of the Senate and tne Clerk of the
House of Representa tires. This amendment met
with some hitle oppooition, on the ffrouud that
these officers were not obliged to reside in Phila-
delphia the whole yeaj^ but the contrary appear-
ing to be the case, it was agreed to. The House
took up the amendment, agreed to it, and the bill
was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.
PIERB IN THE DELAWARE, &c
The Committee of Cummerce and Manufac
ttire*, to whom was referred the report of the Se-
cretary of the Treasury on the memorial of sun-
dry merchants of Philadelphia, praying for the
erection of an additional pier io the river Dela-
ware, and that an inquiry might be made what
was necesaary to be done for the security of ^
■els entering other ports of the United Stales,
ported a recommendation that the business should
lie over till the next session of Congreca.
The Committee did the same also with respect
to a resolution referred to them, to make inquiry
whether any, and, if any. what, alteration was ne-
cessary in the laws r<^ulatiag commerce and na-
vigation.
eOKVET OF THE 80UTHERN C0A8T.
The Committee of Commerce made a report on
the petition of Parker, Hopkins, and Meers, and a
report heretofore made, that they find the surreys
and charts of the sea-coast, made by them, ex-
tremely imperfect and incorvct ; and, considering
the great importance of an accurate survey of the
coast, the committee hare eilended their riewson
the subject, and Tecommend that the PKEeiDENT
beellowed a certsinsQm, to enable him to get such
a surrey aocomplished. The report was read a
second time, but its further consideration was post-
poned to the Isl of December next.
UGHT.HOUSES, B£ACONS, &c
A bill was reported to continue in force for a
limited time the aotf therein mentioned, ris : one
for supporting light-houses, beacons, bno^r*, public
piers, Sk., and another respecting penalties under
. the rerenue laws ; which was twice read, and or-
dered to be referred to a Committee of the Whole
00 Monday.
Abo, a bill making an appropnation to saUsfy
certain demanda incurred in trials for crimes and
lei during the late msnrMotion, and for al-
B*dditiMal -— '— — '^-'
LAND FOR MILITABT SEBTICES.
The House resolved itself into a Comraittee ai
the Whole, on the bill regulating the grants of
land appropriated for military services, and far
the Society of the United Brethren for propa-
satiog the Gospel among the heathen. Afta
having ^ipent some time Uierein, and made some
few amendments, the CoTimiitpe rose, and tht
further consideration of the subject was postpon-
ed till Monday.
WEIGHTS AND MEASUBE8.
The House formed itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the following- report of the com.
mittee to whom were referred so much of the re-
port of the Secretary of State, ofthe 13th <^Jdy,
1790, and the Message of the Phksidekt orrHi
Ufttbd States, of January 8, 1795. as relate ts
Weights and Measures. The committee report—
« That they havs cxaminKl into the ■algect icfand
to them, and are of oinnion that the fbUDwing- pia»
piM oaght to be asmmed in r^niating the atmiiar^ ■'
Wei^ta sad Mtwnma in the United State* :
" 1. That all msuDiH at nir&ee, edacity, ^
weight, ought to be legnlated by nssaures in knirtb.
" S. That the nnil of meaanna in la«tli, and Ik
nnit of weightB to be adopted as atandar^ od^ wa
to vary in any vary lenaible degree from th pte«Bt
foot now in uee, and the preamt poond anNrdapoa
" 3. That the ol^ectioiw against atmtmti AaaduiK
on account of their being arbitrary, and riw^a liaUe
In be injured oi lost, make it a mattar iroithy IIm at-
tanlion of an enlightened Legi^tore to lefci *a waai
certun measure in length derived from en dhUmid
principte in nature, mote eapsciaDy if it can be mule M
appear that reference may be hi!d to waA a meaaoiE.
with sufficient certainty of uiuformity, in the molt tt
diflerent experiments, and witbont mndi tiax^ troabi!^
or expense, to making them.
" In order to carry into effect the Crat and secaod <f
theee principlea, reference need only lo ba bad la ■ veiy
levanable ooneqiondance which i> aatif to eziat ba-
tween tba aroiidupois pound and the Eagliali atattdari
foot; it haling been aacertained (bat one 'V-^iani
ouucH avaiTdapola, <tf tain water, will fill a enUc fM
of Engliah standard mcaame with great an
the pMtdnllun rod, ytttialing saoonda of n
hath hithetia bean diaoorared ; by whieli a
let|gtb may be aaaeitained, diSsnng van is
t axpefimenls;
mglhtobe ado[
in the United State* may thereixa at all li
gnlaled. The eommiltaa an there&re of tba ^«aa
diat OB* SI Boia esptnaiaats m^t to be made in il
lity of niiladei{dua, to Mniicahi the leng[tb ofthe p*
Mnm rod, vibrating seoonik of mean lima; and \k'
aAei sndi length shall be obtained, the pccacot fc
oBght tbfaa oampand with it; and if it apniwii iW »
beat am evaa prapeMioB ta it, thek sinii » atsa^
ibot aught to bi
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HISTORY OF CONGRBSa
Mat, 1798.]
Weig'lUt and Meantru.
CH.orB.
lian (o it, md wUeh will not vaiy, in mj **"-■'''■ de-
gTw,framdialmiflbDftbefootiiowiiioMi mnd Hul,
■An iDch ■ itaiidud foot ihall be obUined, MM or more
BiperinMnU ought to be made to twcertmn the weight
of B cube of imin •rater, wlikh litaSi be equal ti> the
oae-lhouNndlh part of a cube whoae sde ahall be the
ifbrenid itaadetd foot ; and that nxlmn times the
weight of such a cube of water oaghl to be the anit of
waighta or pound* BToirdupoia ; and that after thia
Df weight! or pound ihall be to aacertained, eiperimenli
~ ' '. to be made lo aacertain the weight* of inch di-
m of thU onit
nient for the pnipoM ck weighing all lubatanee* that
require eiaetneas in the weigbt, mch a* the predona
melab, and the hke, and in meiiog these, the four fcA-
(owjpg aethoda of dividing the ponnd hate been eon-
lemplated bj the committee :
"The divinon ef the poaod, in a dedmal ntio, nntU
it ihall he divided into 1,000 p*tH and ^ divjalon of
each of these into airren paita, which wUt divide the
ponnd into T.OOG parta.
" S. The division of the pouid, in a decimBl ratio,
the snallesl weigbt in common ase to be the ten
Iboosandth put.
" 3- The division of the onnee into 18 parta, and each
of these again into M, which will divide the poundinto
Ml3 parts.
" 4. The division of the onnce, in a decimal ratio ;
ihe least weight in common lue to be the one thou-
■uidth part, whic^ will divide the- pound into 16,000
"The least weight in the first of theM
be the present troy grain, and the remaining will beu-
the Ibllowing prcportiona to it : that i>, the second vrill
be to the pieaent tro; grain aa 7 ia to 10 i the third aa
7,000 to 6,eiS-, the fourthasTto 16. Of these respec-
tive diviaiona, the committee are of opinion that the
■altea lo decimal srithmetie, and in die lAst divisions,
before mentioned, will prodnce weigbia less than Ihe
pesent troy grain, and which mnsl, therelbra, be aoffi-
oently exsct for niial purposes. The oommittee have
eoDceived it nnneeesssry to ctona to any particular de-
■eraiination about the divinona of the feota, or req ''
ing the contents of the gallon and bushel, ontil it i
be determined whether axpertaents shall be made rela-
lire to thia aubject ; and they would therefore aubmit
Ihe following reaolutuns :
" AcMfaed, That tlw President of the United Bute*
shall bo aulhorixed to employ anch persona, of suffi-
cient mathstnalical and philoaophical skill, as he shall
think most proper, for the purpoae of making Ihe
lowing experimenta, the reauh of which shall be
ported to Congress at Ihdi nest session :
"1. To ascertain the length efapanduhimrtid of iiwn,
of a cylindrical form, whose ^ametershaU not exceed the
one hundred and twentieth part of its length, which shall
perform ita vibrations in one second at mean time, in
an arc not exceeding four degnea, and in the Ittitode
of the city of Philadelphia, at any place between the ri-
ctra Delaware and Schuylkill, and at a known height
above the level of common high water in the river Del-
aware, and in a known lemperalure of the atmosphere,
according to Fahrenheit's thennamrter, both tobeaaeei^
tsined when the eipeiinent shall be made ; and after
ita length shall be aieettained, by one or more npert-
aenta for that purpose, a standard foot, lo be the nnit
ofall measures in length for the United 8tales,Aall b«
derived ftooi it, whidi shall ha equal to, or shall nM
ssnsibly vary fiwi, As pieaent foot now in use, taA
which diall bear an even pi^Kirtion lo Ihe length of sntll
pendulum rod.
" S. To ascertain the weight of a cube of rain walaTt
of a known degree of heat, accoidiDg lo Fahranheit'l
thenoonieter, to be ascertained at the time when the ez-
peomeut ihall be made, which shall be equal in quan-
tity lo the one-lhousandlh part of a cube whose side
■hall be equal to the standard foot ascertained by the
pendulum rod, in manner as above directed ; which
weight of water, when so obtained, ahalt be the stand-
ard ounce avcHjfdupMi; sixteen of which shall make
Ae pound avoirdupois ; and the pound, when so de-
termined on, shall be Ihe unit wnghl fbr the Uniud
Sutea.
" 8. To asoertain the respective weighta of the fol-
lowing divistona of Aa pound and the oimoe:
" 1. The division of the poimd, in a jI^^wH latii.
onto 1,000 parts ; and the least of these again into 7
" 8. The divisioa of the pound, in a dacimd ralit,
unto 10,000 parte.
■' 3. The division of the ounce into IS parts, and each
of Iheae into 24 parts.
" 4. The division of tht ounce, in a deeimal ratio,
" BaolMd, That a sum not exceeding
doUara ought to be appropriated for the pnipose irf de-
fraying the expense* that may ariae in making the
foregoing experimenta."
Mr. KiTCBBLL said, that the beat way of doing
thia busioesa would be to refer the whole to Mr.
Ritteuhonse, and Let those members who wished
to uaderstBoid the subject go to school to him.
Mr. HAVBNe Mid, he should be sorry to confess
himself so altogether isnoraot as the gentlemftn
from New Jersey [Mr. KitcrbllJ had profe»s«d
himself to be, concerning this or any other subject
about which it was necessary for htm to decide.
as a member of a Legislative body. If he had
foand himself so totally Dninformed as the gen-
tleman had professed himself to be, he should,
certainly enaeavor to inform himself as well as
he could before he was called upon to vote anon
the question. The subject of Weights and Mea-
sures was certainlv a matter of in]]Mrtance to the
United States, and an uniformity in them much
to be desired ; partieularlY in some of the mt»-
~~tes of capacity, «s, for instance, in the busttel,
which there was coasideraUe variety in Ike
different Stales. This want of miformlty, be
, was not confined lo the United Btates ontf,
bat was a anbjeet of complaint amonr the na-
""~ 1 of Europe. In Engfland, in narticnlar. tbeve
been vanous slaiidBTds eatsbMsbed at dilep-
ent times by different acts of Parliament, whiek
must have produeed considerable embaiiassmwit
' much uncertainty on the snbjecl, as wouUt
, , ar evident to airy one who would take die
trouble <^ examining the report of the late Secre-
tary of State on this subject. The select com-
mittee, in forming the repciri then nnderconaidera-
tion, he said, liad endeavored to avoid those diffi-
culties, which they supposed had heretofore pre-
vented the introduction of uaifortniiy in our
Weighta and Mnauraa, on the principlw 00Dlsii»>
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1379
HISTOBY OF CONGRESS.
B.ofR.1
IfeigMU and MeoMnre*.
[Mat,17W.
ed io that report. It had been propoaed. in tbu
r^ort, thai an expeiim«ni ibould be made
latiiaae of 45 or 38 degrees, "
pendulum rod, a <
1 should be ihe standard foi
United States. The expense allendin^ such an
experiment, the committee had conceived, was
the princiinl reason T/^hy the proposal had not
been adopted, and, to avoid ibiik they liad propos-
ed that such an experiment should be made
the city of Philadelphia, under circumstances that
would produce the same uniformity, and would
therefore answer the same purpose to the tJnited
States. The committee had conversed with a
Knileman, [Mr. Rittenhouse,] whom it was pro-
ble the PaBaioENT would employ on snch an
occasion, concetuiog the probable amount of the
expenie that would attena the making such expe-
rimeDta as they had recommended in their report,
and were infonned by him that it might not ex-
eeed five hundred dollars, but that one thousand
dollars might be considered as amply sufficient
The commitice had, therefore, inserted that sum
in their report, as the highest that would be pro-
bably wanted for the purpose. It was a thing
well known to persons ivho had paid any atten-
tion to subjects of thb nature, that a cubic vessel
whose side was equal in length to the English
foot, would hold one thousand ounces avoirdupois
of rain water; (he committee had, therefore, re-
commended an experiment of that kind to be
made, in order to ascertain the wciglit of the
avoirdupois pound, which they proposed to adopt
as thestandard,and tohiy aside tne use of the troy
pound. Thill was agreeable to a report of a former
committee of the Senate upon Ihe subject, and he
had never heard any person make any objection
to such a regulation. In short, the committee had
studiously endeavored to remove every solid ob-
jection which micbt be brought against directing
experiments to be made that would asce: '
standards derived from such principles in ni
as would produce the uniformity desired. It had
been their intention to deviate no farther from
the present prevailing habits of the people than
was absolutely necessary to produce uniformity,
the great object which ought to be had in view ;
they had no idea of introducing any unnecessary
novelties in the Weights and Measures of the
United Slates; they only wished such experi-
meot* to be imide as apoeared necessary, in order
to obtain a uatarat stanaard; these they proposed
to be made in the summer ensuing, and, al the
itext session, Congress niight again take the sub-
ject into consideration, ana, after knowing the re-
mit of these experiments, might reguute the
•tandaidi by them in inch manner as slioold then
ftpnear most eligible.
tdr. CooPEB rose and said, ludicrously, that
whilst the report was reading, it put him in mind
of the following lines, which he had read in the
Detrted ViUt^:
" While words of team«d length and thnnflerinf sonod,
Amu'd the gMUiKnurtiesrang'daronDd;
And still Ih^ na'd, and still the wnndar fraw.
That aDa.MMirhMKl co«ld ttxrj all be knaw."
Hr. Paob wished these gentlemoi iriw s|N>fce
upon this subject would speak as it became legis-
lators; and those who did not nnderstand the
principles nf the repon would do well to be silent.
He did not himself boast of any superior know-
ledge on this subjeci ; but, as he had be«n put
upon the committee, he should wish to say there
was great propriety in altempling to obtain the
end which the select committee bad in view ;
and he hoped the Committee of the Whole House
would have no need to go to school to Mr. Rit-
tenhouse, as had been prat>oaed by the gentleman
from New Jersey, [Mr. Kitchell,] unless they
disposed to ridicule what they did not
comprehend than to receive information on the
subject. He would not, indeed, atiemnt to leach
gentlemen who knew noihine of the orst priaci-
ples of calculation i perhaps Mr. Rittenhouse him-
self could not do this.
The English and French nations Mr. P. nid.
had for some time been engaged in the pDrsuit of
ertain mode by which to regulate and make
iform their Weights and Measures. The Frcadi
had gone on in the business, and attained a stand-
ard, which they had forwarded to the United
States. The Senate, he said, had made a re-
port on the subject. The committee had consider-
ed both.
Mr. P. said, he would first show that a stand-
,rd was wanting. There were now in use the
11, the yard, the British foot, and so oa, and a
great variety among the several standards a{ the
loot. The size of the bushel, likewise, varied in
different parts of the country. To fix a standanj
by which to r^tilate Weights and Measures, you
must have recourse to some unalterable length in
nature. It was well known that the leue£ of a
pendulum rod which will performits TibfatiMU
m a second of mean time, would always be l:he
same in the same latitude and tempeianire of ike
air. And when that length is tmee known, the
standard can at all times he regulated 1^ it. The
French had proceeded in anothw manner (o ob-
tain an invariable length, derived from a certain
principle in nature; they had measured the length
of an arc of the merlaian, and from that they had
led the length ofthe ten-roillionih part of
one-quarter of the meridian of Ihe earth, and had
adopted this length as their standard. We have
no^ said Mr. P., proposed an undertaking so great
and expensive as to measure any portioa ol the
earth's meridian. All that we propose is, an ex-
periment which will ascertain tnelenglhofapen- .
dulnm rod vibrating seconds of mean time. Wc
request this at this time, said he, becansewe han
in this city at present three or fonr genilemei
who are doubtless equal, if not superior, to any a
the world for performing an experimrat of ihi)
kind, and who will no doubt undertake it ; *M
for the credit of the United States, and for tk
benefit of the country at large, he hoped the ex-
periment would he made this Summer.
Gentlemen who thougbt the report so verr
mysterious, could not see how this businen w»
to b« effected by this experiment ; he would then-
fore inftwm them, tha^ by it wotdd be aacertaiMi '
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BISTORT OF C0N6R£SS.
1388
Mat, 1796.J
Weigif and Meanra.
[H.OFR.
a certain atanduil in leogtb, whteb at |»e««nt ex-
ists no where.
There would be but little difference betwixt the
present fcwl and the etandard foot to be establiih-
ed. It waa a, fortunate circomatance for tcience
that il had been well ascertained that the English
foot was equal to the lide of a cubed vessel which
would contain 1,000 onnces avoirdupois of rain
water: and, after knowing the weight of a cubic
foot of rain water, yoa map easily regulate by it
the uait of weigh is, which may afterwards be sub-
divided decimally, or in such manner as shall be
most couvenicDt for weighing coin, or any other
substance requiring less exactness in ibe weight ;
baihewoald notbetoo particular on a subject of
this kind, lest some geatlemen should by and by
call upon him to explain what be meant by vulgar
fractions and decimal fractious.
He ihoQKht it was of imitortance to ascertain,
nhilst we nave men of genius amongst us, the
standard proposed, and not have to send to the 45th
degree of latitude, nor undertake to meaoure any
number of deerees of the meridian, as the French
had done. These would be eipensive things. All
they asked for was $1,000, and he trusted the en-
lightened world would say tl,0OO were never bet-
ter expended.
He hoped the resolution would be agreed to.
Mr. S. SaiiTH said, he did not pretend loiuder-
itand anylbiiig of philowithy or uaiheroatks ; but
it was BO desirable that tne aahjeet shosld be Bn-
deriaken, that he was willing to agree to the reso-
lati(»i authorizing the Pkb8]dbnt to employ suit-
able ^Tsons to make the experiment in question.
Nothmg was mote worthy of their attention than
the obtaining of uniform Weights and Measnres.
All commercial men felt heavily the disadvan-
ta<es arising from the present inequalilv. He hop-
edtbe report would therefore be agreed to.
Mr. SwANWicK agreed with the gentleman last
up. No fact was better ascerlainedthan thegreat
uncertainty of Weights and Measures. He had
known various insianties in which disputes had
■lisen for wbdI of some certain standard W which
to regulate Weights and Measures ; and frequent'
ly the pajrinenl of a whole cargo disputed on ac-
count of a diflerence in the sizes of bushels. He
could not say whether the plan now proposed was
the best that could be adopted ; but he thought
the experiment ought to be tried. Every bodv
was Teadv to acknowledge the evil existed, thoiigo
few could say which was the best means of curing
He thought the report a very ingenious
geikious observationi which had fallen from the
gentlemen from Virginia and New York on the
Mr. Havens said, (hat when he was last up, he
had not gone into sneb a consideration of the sub-
ject as might makeit necessary to introduce many
observations of a mathematical or philosophical
nature. He had endeavored to avoid such adis-
eosiion, lest it should he disagreeable, or might
appear ridiculous to some sentlemen who had
nerer attended to snbjecd of that natoie ; bnt, to
gendemen that this was a subject of im-
portance, and required some Legislative regula-'
tion,and that it ought not to be considered in a
ludicrous point of tight, as some gentlemen aeem-
ed to consider it, he would take the liberty of
reading a part of the report of the late Secretary
of State respecting the grebt varteiy of standard
bushels which had been established at various
times in Qreat Britain. [He then read that part
of the report which stales a great variety in the
bushels of Qreat Britain.] From that country,
said Mr. H.,we derive our measures, and this baa
frodueed different bushels in tbe different States,
ut he believed the Winchester bushel was the
most prevalent ; for these coasideralions, he Irtist-
ed it would be considered as worth while to ex-
pend the sum proposed in the report of the com-
mittee, in order to make the several expehments
which had been proposed, and that no gentleman
would consider it in a ludicrous or trivial point of
liebt.
Mr. FiNDLBv said, he should vote for agreeing
to the report. He believed they were bound by
the Constitution to regulate Weights and Mea-
sures. This being the case, why should they put
ofi^ftom time to time, what the comitry stood so
much in need of? It was not righL because every
one was not a competent judge of the propriety
of this report, that it should be rejected. He was
obliged himself sometimes to decide on thin^
which he did not perfectly comprehend; this
would not prevent him from voting for an experi-
ment which, though not clear to aim, might be
of the greatest advantage to the United Slates,
and perhaps to the wond at large. He was so
far a judge of the business as to befiere the experi-
meutwasnecessary,and that it couldbedme. He
hoped the report would be agreed to.
Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) said, the subject of
Weights and Measures was very important, and
to no country more so than to the United States,
a* every State had its different Weights and Mea-
sures, which caused the greatest uncertainty in
all commercial transactions in which they weie
concerned.
Mr. D. owned his philosophical and mathemati-
cal knowledge was not sufficient to form a cor-
rect judgment of the report before them ; but he
conceived il tobea very ingenious teport,ai)d one
which did the committee great honor, and ior
which the House was much indebted. He thooght
they ought to do what the committee recommend-
ed. It would be money well expended. He haf»-
ed there would not be found a inajoritv of that
Committee who wotild think diflerenUy. He
hoped the busbess would not be treated with !••
vity, but that they should be disposed to trent it
with that attention and candor which it deserved.
The subject was of consequence, and na it had
been stated that there were men now in Fhila-
delphia who woul4 be very able to execute th*
S reposed experiment, he trusted ihe^ should a^
na an opportunity of its being eSbcted, by grant-
ing the money required.
Hr: WiLUAMasaid, that OS lhe)[ were abonlfe-
gakuing the coin of the cooBtry, il was rerp d»
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HISTOST OF CO!fGflaB&
H.OFR.]
ampeiuatitm to Public 0^cei«— JcWMtunt War DepartvtaU.
■iraUe lo bar* thb experimeiit carried into eflfecl
at thia time. ETCry txie, be said, mnit acknow-
ledge the ^eat iacoDvenieace* which at pttrsent
aroM fiom ihe great uncsiuioty of Weights and
Ueasurei, and ne trusted the report would be
■greed to, that a fair chance may be given to
raect a cure of tbe evil which all acknowledged
Mr. BiLvwiH waa io favor of the report. He
had no idea of going much into the subject. The
esperimeDt propoied, he raid, was ooly one itep.
Whether we should deviate much from our pre-
MDt bushel and foot would be a question alter-
ward* to be decided. Wheo they met, ai the
nest session, the result of the experimcDl would
be laid before ihem, and the comparison could be
Bade. If this step was not taken, they might go
on fiom time to time talking on the subject, wi^-
oat coming anf nearer to the point in question.
It was an experiment which could tmly hazard
tbe loss of five or six huudred dollars ; because, it,
when Ihe experimeut was made, it wa» not thought
The question was put and agreed to. The
Committee rose, aad a bill was ordered to be
brought in. A bill was afterwards brought in and
paased with little opposition ; but the Seuate (pro-
bably from the lalenesi of the session) postpon-
ed the considnatioQ of the subject to the next
■ecsioo.
Monday, May 16.
Mr. Habrisok reported a bill for ascertaining
the uniform principle for rejfulating Weights and
Heaanres; which was twice read, and ordered to
be committed to a Committee of the Whirie to-
ft, hiil b
1 force for a limited li
a all
der the rerenue law^ was read a second tune, and
ordered to be committed to a Committee of tbe
Whole to-morrow.
COMPENSATION TO PUBLIC OmCEKS.
The bill making additional allowaDcea to cer-
tain public officers for the year 1796, was read a
tUrd time, when the blanks were filled up. Tlie
first which was to contain the addiiienat son to
be iilowed to Ihe Secretaries at State, Trraswy,
■sd Wat De^artmeDts, Treasum, Comptroller,
Aaditor, RcgMer, CammtasioBer of lUreniu,
Parrejror, AttonieT Qeneral, and Postmaster Oet>-
eml, was proposed to be fitted with the several
•ums of tt.OOO, $800, «760, $700, $600, $500, and
J^OO. After some discussion, a division was
aahen on the firvt sum. whicit was negadved, bc-
iagonly 19 Sot it. Tnc seose ot the Coinmitiee
ms next taken i^mhi tSOO, which was aegaiived,
46 to 31. Then upon tTdO and t700. which were
tost by the same divisions. And a division was
then taken on $600. and carried, 40 lo 58. The
next Uank, which was to contain the additional
allowance to he made to the Assistant Postmas-
> be filled up wiU $600, there being, on
■ ■ - -■ ■■ ' 'K&ed
1 preaent.
n favor of it, which wte decb
a<£vi
tobea
iL whM
■f he Committee rose and reported the bilL and
the House look up tbe coosideratioa, and, being
agreed to, Mr. Jackbok moved to hare the yeas
and nays taken upon the pasMge of the bill- They
wete accordingly taken, and stood yeas 49, naj^
30, asfoUows:
Yaii^-Abniham BsUwin, David Baid, Bemaais
Bonma, Thssphilni Bradbmy, Sidiaid Bnot, Oslirid
Christia, WiUiam CoopBr.OedQaDait, BamiMlEade,
William Fiodlw, Al»d Porter, Eiehtd GAoit, Wil-
mu Hartley, Jaoalhan N. Haretu, John BaaUi, lao
HiUhouse, William Hiudman, Johu Wilkea Kitten,
Ednaid LivingstoTV, Sunoel Lyman, Fianda MaUnau,
J<^m MUledge, John Page, Jonah Parker, Frand* Pres-
ton, John Reed, Robert Ralheifbrd, Samoet Sitgreavo,
Nathaniel Smith, Samuel Smith, WiUiam Saiidu Rid-
■id Sprig'g, Jr., Thomas Sprigg, Jtdm Swanwt^ Ze-
phaniah Swift, Richard Thomas, Mirk TbompHia,
Uriah Tracy, John E. Van AUea, Philip Van Cort-
luidt, Pflleg Wadswoith, John WiBiama, and Ricturd
Wlmi.
NxTS. — Theodonu Bsilej, Nathan Biyui, DnI^l-
wy BUTgw, Samnel J. Cabell, John Ck^taw, Jodios
Coit, laaac Calea, Jomv PianUin, Albert GsUum,
James Gillsspie, Chrisb^har OEScnap, Andrew Ungg,
Wade Usmptcm, Oecn^ Hancock, Joha Hathon,
Daniel Haister, Thoatas HcndeiMa, Jann Holland,
Geotge Jackaon, Aaron KitcbeU, Hsltbew Locka, Saai-
uel Maday, Nathaniel Macon, Andnw Hooie, Aa-
thonj New, John Nicholas, John Ridwtds, Isad
Smith, Alwilaai Tatom, and George Tbatcbci.
CfflANTS FOR MILITARY 8BBV1CB8.
The House then took up tbe consideratian of
the bill regulating the grants ol land appropriated
for military services, and for the Society of Unit-
ed Brethren for propagating the Gospel among
tbe heathen ; when, after a few ameoameors, tbe
Srincipai of which were, that the tracts should be
ivided into townships of five, instead of six miles
square ; that such officers and soldiers oC the late
army as had located their warrants within the
seven ranges, and had made improvement there-
on before a certain time, should be suffered to re-
main undisturbed thereon; and a ehtate reserving
the free navigation of all the rivera, the bill was
ordered for a third reading to-morrow.
ACCOUNTANT WAB DEPA&THENT.
The House resolved itself into a OKniniitee tt
the Whole on Ihe bill for augmentioff the salariei
of the Accountant GleDenil of the War Depart-
laenl, when, having agreed to fill up the Uank
containing the amount of the salary, in the Com-
mittee, alter some debate, the sense of the Coca-
miitee was taken upon $S,OOD, $1,700, and $1,600.
The flrtt snm was nc^lived without a division ;
$1,700 was negatived, 35 to 31 ; and the last snai
(which was an increase of $4flp on the old salary}
was carried, 36 to 32.
Mr. TaaoT proposed an a^«ndtiient whidi
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i»et
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
1386
Mat, IWe.)
hnpHmnment far DdiL
[H. orR.
C
for ihe preaeDt year, on acconnl of the ilnmess of
Hrlng. (HTeeeblr to the Bdrancement of other of-
lirets.) This occasioned BOine deb«te. It was
powd to fill up this blank with »5(n and t400 ;
at length the aenM of the Committee was
taken upon the smeodment itself, wiihont anv
snm being named ; vrtiich waa negatived, 40 to 24.
The CoRiinittee then rose, and the HoDse took
np the business, when Mr. N. Smitb proposed to
do awaf with the permaiMDt salary altogether,
and allow the Accountant 0500 fot the present
¥«r only, on aecocnit of the deamess of liring.
he amendment did not obtain, and the bill was
ordered for a third reading to-monov.
BKmUl 8P0UAT10HB.
Hr. W. Shith movpd lliai the House ahoald
resolre itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the state of the Union on the memorial of sundry
merchants of Charleston, praying for a loan or
other aid from Congress on account of British
spoliations.
This was objeeied to by Messrs. SwAitwtcK,
VenABLM. and others. They did not see with
what propriety ^nllemen who had so warmly
advocateathe British Treaty, and said it would
famish ample compensation for all such spolia-
tions, could come forward and ask Congress to af-
ford relief in such cases. It was said to be unne-
cessary to take up the time of the House on such
business ; and the ComToictee of the Whole was
discbat^d from the consideration of it, and the
petition ordered to lie on the table.
On motion of Mr. Williams, the House resolv-
ed itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
bill for regulating Post Offices and Post Roads,
which having gone through and amended, the
Committee rose end the House adjourned.
TcESOAt, May 17.
The biO regvlatiBg graau of land fbt military
NTTiees, dfcc^ waa road a third tine and paswa.
Tke blank mentioiiing the tlmeof reaistering war-
Tanb was filled up witk mim laoDtbs; that eon-
taiaisg ike tine altar whieh do loeatioaa will be
allvwed, waa filled op with Janaarr, 1800; and
that for eontainDg iha diae at wfakb perwns ^all
hai* leaided on bsda alaeady looatad by militair
warrants, to entitle tfaen W remaia thereoB, waa
BUed widt Ajnil H, ITM, (ibe d>r cm which the
ant bora date, aUswiag Uapt. Kiieaberif tn locate
oerttia lands on Ike tame principl^)
The biU alleriMtiM eompcnsadOB of the Ao-
•oanrant (rfthe 1^^ Departmeat was read a third
time and jMsMd.
A bill from the Senate was read proridingpaas-
pona br idiipe and TMaeU of the United State*.
A meMaec from tke Scaate iBformed the
Honta ihat U»e Senate hare pasaed the UU, enti-
tled "An act makioK prorision for the payment
efoertaindebiattf the United EUates," wuh aave-
ral aon^dmeati, to which they doaii* the etmcar-
ranceoftbe Hooae.
41b Com.— 4«
Mr. Tbact, from the Committee of Claims,
made a report on the bill from the Senate, pro
Tiding recompenM for clerk^ &c.,who resided in
Philadelphia during the yellow ferer, to which
they pniiiosed to add scTeral names.
They also reported on the petition of Aleiandei
Fowler, praying to locate certain warrants on un-
occupied lands in the Northwestern Territory.
This report was against the netltiooeT. Both the
reports were twice read, ana referred to a Com-
mittee of the Whole to-morrnv.
Mr. BoDRKR reported a bill supplementary to
BD act laying duties on snnff.
Mr. W. Smitb also reported a bill empoweriiig
the Secretary of the Treasury to lease the salt
springs of the United States northwest of the
rirer Ohio. Both the above bills were twice read,
and ordered to be referred to Committees of thfl
Whole to-morrow.
POST OFFICES AND POST HOADS.
The House took ap tke amendmeDts yeaterday
made in Committee of the Whole in the bitV n-
gnlating Post Offices and Post Roads, and haTiiig
through the same and a few other riiert-
the bill, it was ordered to be eagroaaed
dreading, f '"'" >-_._. —
motion made by Mr.
clause which oblig
NicaoLsoN to strike oi
iliges printen to dry all their
newspapers which go by pott, and to pnt them op
in strong covers, ft was said by Measrs. Nicsob-
IN and SwANwioE that thia provision wooM pat
in the power of post offices to stop the circula-
tion of newspapers alttweiher, by refining to ae-
cept them, on the ground of their not being anffi-
ciently dry, or in covers sufficiently slvonff ; bat,
on the other hand, it waa awued by Messis.
Tbatobeb and HAKpan that the former pan ef
the measure 'was at least destraUe, and that It
could not be supposed that the PoMmaster pen-
eral woiJd onnecetsaTily obstruel the eircnlMicB
of newspapers, and that, if he did, he wookd be li-
able to puniahment.
The ameDdmeBt was negatived ; wbcn
Mr. TaATotiJtB moved to aiaike out the wordi
directing papers to be encloaed in atrcngcoven^
add a clauae, direoting that all iMWspapm,
/ partieular post office, should be enefesei
a mail by tbenuetvea, and directed tonaidoffioe,
andskovld not be apeaed until they arrive at their
plaoe of destination. Thisamendmeai waa agned
to, aad the bill ra ordered for a third reading.
DAT OP ADJOUBWMEWT.
Hr. OiLca thought it was time tofixuponsoBa
early period of adjournnient. Most gentleiB^
he believed, felt aniions to be awaj. He theie-
fore proposed a resolution to the following eSMt,
whicb was ordered to lie on the table :
"RtMohtd, That the PraaMntef the Bmalaiadlba
Speskv of tiia Honao at BepraaentatiTgi be aathsriasd
to doao the preaeitt 10000, bj acyounuMBt ef bath
Houses, <m Ssturday the 31st initanL"
IMPBiaONMBNT FOB DEBT.
The House went into a Committee of th*
Whole on thcreportof aeommilleeto whomwa*
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HISTOKT OF C(»HC»iB88.
H.orR.]
htvpruottment for Debt.
referred the bill from tbe Senate for the relief of
persons imprisoned for debt. The committee re-
commend toe second section of the bill to be struck
ovi, end > clause to be added to this bill, which
should conform the laws of tbe United States,
with respect to persons imprisoned for debt, to
those of the sereral States in which actions should
be bronebc.
Mr. NicHOLAB. Chairman of the Committee,
said it WHS desirsole, in hi* opinion, that the sec-
tion which they bad reported should be agreed to,
because, when the puaishment in the State, where
an sction might be determined, was heavier or
lighter than that of tbe United States, it occa-
aioned anpteaMnt comparisons. He thonsht it
was of importance that thef should not mtke the
laws of tte General GoTernment. in this case,
more severe than those of tbe Stales. In tbe
, State from which he came, a man waa liberated
by the Stale laws, upon giving up his property ;
but it was not the case with respect to the laws of
the United Sutes rehitiDR 10 debtors. He wished
all poasible huminiLy to be shown to unfortunate
debtors, and it was desirable that an uniformity
of practice should be established throughout the
United States ; but, as there was not now time for
(Oing fully into tbe subject, he believed the plan
proposed would be the best they could at present
adopt. At this time, he said, an arbitrary forei^
creditor might confine a citizen ot the United
Stsies as long as he pleased ; he wished this un-
reasonable power to be done away.
Mr. CoiT objected to this new section. There
would be some difficulty in learning what the in-
•olveut laws were in the different Slates. In the
State from which he came, he said, they had
inaolvent law. A man imprisoned in tnat Stale
would, therefore, have no remedy. The measure
struck him as objectionable on this ground.
Mr. N. Smith said, he was upon the committee
lowborn this bill had been referred. The diffi-
culty mentioned by bis colleague [Mr. Coit] had
occurred lo bim. It struck him their laws were
insolvent laws. He must own he was not so fa-
rorably impressed with the plan proposed as M>me
other gentlemen were, thougb there were manv
considerations which would induce him lo wish
for some regulations of this kind. The Commit-
tee had asrced that this report should be laid be-
fitte tbe House, where it was expected it would
meet with discussion, and be adopted, or not, as
should appear besL He bad his doubts on the
subject ; to introduce the laws of the different
States into this law, without knowing what their
laws were, did not strike him very agreeably. He
wished gentlemen from the different States vould
stale what their laws were. If his ideas of the
laws of Connecticut were incorrect, he wished
them to be set right. The Committee had not
much time to consider the subject ; but something
being necessary to be done, ihey had agreed lo
make the report they had made.
Mr. W. Ltmir said, the bill was not particular
enough with respect to the amount ; it should
specify some expreis ?um. By the bill, as ttcame
from the StoBie, a creditor was permitted (o keep
man in prison, ihoo^ be hftd no ptopeity ml
all,' as long as his enmity towards him wwiU ^-
mit him. This was a principle by do means jm-
tifiable. Proaccuion in ihe Fedenl Coorla wen
mostly foreigners who had (he power of impriaoo-
ing our citizens for life, for the crime, perhaps, of
being un^>rfunafa. In the Stateof Massaehosetu^
he said, they had formerly a law upon a similar
Erinctple, but it had been abolished, and K new
iw had been enacted upon more lenient princi-
ples, which had been found very acceptable. He
should vote for the report of the committee.
Mr. MuHBAT wished lo know bow far the pro-
vision would go. Lo tbe State of Maryland, the
Jroperty of persons who took advantage of tbe
tw, was not afterwards liable. He did not much
like the connexion made betwixt the laws of the
several Staiesand the United Slates. Heiho^hl
a uniform system for the whole Union wonU be
far preferable.
Mr. H&TEN8 said that, in Ihe Stale of New
York, they had various laws in force for the relief
of debtors, founded on different principles ; by one
of them, tne debtor was discharged from his debts
after giving up his property for the payment of
his creditors, provided thaisucb a numoerof tbem
as held three-fourths of his debts would consent
to his discharge in thai way. By another law,
the debtor was to be liberated from imprisonment
on giving ud his propertv, but was not discbar^
from his deols, and would be liable to execuUcHi
for the payment of (hem to be levied on any vo-
perly that he misht afterwards acquire ; they Dad
also adopted a third principle, which was, that a
person having a family, and not being a freehtdd-
er, should not be imprisoned for a debt less than
(en pounds in that currency. He doubted how
(he proposed clause would operate in all ihcat
different cases.
Mr. NicBOLAS observed, that, with respect U
'the two bst in-
extend lo bank-
rupts ; it was meant to subslilute a man's property
for his body — not where a man was dischiqea
by two-thirds of his creditors, but where be was
to give up his body. The gentleman from Con-
necticut [Mr. N. Smitb] had stated the bwiBeas
very fairly { but he did not think it was taking
Ihe Sute laws in the dark, as there were gentte-
men present from every port of the Union, who
might reasonably be supposed lo be acquainted
wim their laws on this snoieel.
Mr. Bkadbiidy had no oDJectioua to nmending
the bill from the Senate ; but, he nid the Uw ooght
to be uniform to all the debtors of the Untied
States. Some of the States differed conaidenbly
in their regulatioiw on this subject, and tfaenfim
he did not think it right to conform the lawa of the
United States to all their different practices.
Mr. N. Smitb and Mr. BRanacRY — each of them
proposed an amendment, which were aATeed to.
Mr. DarroH f the Speaker) approved the object
of the bill, which was to render the situation and
confinement of debtors less rigorona and omren-
ive, bat he wished a uniform plan to be adopted,
which should operate equally ihroogboat all lk«
New York, it would apply t
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HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
19$0
Mat, 1796.3
Dtbt.
[H.orR.
Slates. Ah the retier proposed for debton has
immediate reference to the State lawi. the treat-
mCDt of ibe same destiriplion of debtors' neld andei
processea from the Courts of the United States,
would be Terv different in differeol States. Id
New Jersey, lor instance, tbef had no existing
iDsolvent law, and, therefore, if the amendmentG
reported by the select committee to the bill from
the Senate were adopted, a debtor confined in that
State would be left without any, the most distant,
hope of relief, and must perish m jail, if be could
not pay the debt He owned that it would meli-
orate the condilion of this unfortunate class of
beines, where the State laws were iheo in force,
to woich the regulations could attach and apply,
bnt wikere that was not the case, as in New Jer-
sey, fod in two or three other Stales, (heir pros-
pMts would be more hopeless ; for no subsequent
act of the Stale could bring them within the bene-
fits of the law of the United Stales.
Mr. D. eaid, it appeared ps if gentlemen were
inclining to adopt the Committee's amendments,
not because ther altogether liked them, but
merely because tfiey thought them preferable to
the Senate's bill ; he, however, thoogbt it more
practicable, by means of amend roents, to conform
the latter than the former to the opinion of a ma-
s would not object to the provision,
adopted nt prpseni. In the State which he repre-
sented, there were cases of persons having been
for a long lime imprisoned by foreign creditors.
This provision proposed to give such debtors the
same privileges which they would be entitled to,
if they had t«en prosecuted under the Slate laws.
He bad now letters which informed him of per-
sons being imprisoned for debt, for whom no re^
lief could be aSbrded. A man put into prison by
a British creditor, (betwixt htm and whom there
mizht be supposed to be some degree of animosi-
ty,) might, by the bill, as sent from the Senate,
tte kept ID close confinement without relief; whilst
the citizens of the same State would not bare the
same power over any of their debtors. This ^ro-
visiua went to put i»oth upon the same footing.
He hoped it would be agreed to, because, if disa-
greed to, DO other law could be got through thia
session.
Mr. NioBOLAB would submit it to the gentleman
frotn New Jersey, fl/lr. Davton,] and others,
whether the aiiuatioa of the States would be al-
tered by this lawi They certainly would not. It
went lo conform the law of the United Statei
those of the States, and Dot those of the States to
that of the United States. He would as^, "
was not most important that there should be
forinity in the pains, in like cases, in the States
aod United States ? Or was it right that foreign-
ers should have greater power over our citizens
than they have over one another 7 He betiered
the only way of reconciling the State and General
GovemmeDts was the one proposed.
Mr. Jeremiau S.mitd said, il had been itated
UN am objcrtioo lo the anieDdnieni, that it
taking the State laws in the dark— taking a vari-
ety ol laws which they did not understand. He
confessed he was unacquainted with the insolrest
laws of any at the btates, except MasMchusetli
and New Hampshire. There were several Statu
whose kwE he knew little or nothingof. Perhaps,
some of them might favor the debtor to the injiuy
of the creditor. Until he knew what Jhey ware,
he felt a difiScuIly to assent to them. He had
another objection to the ameadmeni — be sup-
posed it would not only be adopting the law* at
predentin existence in the Stales, nut also such
as should hereafter be made on the subject of in-
solvency.
With respect to the obserTations of the sentle-
an from Virginia. [Mr. Nicholas.] on the sub-
ject of debtors and creditors under the laws of the
United States and individual States, he allowed
thev had some weight ; but, notwithstanding, he
declared himself unwilling lo trust the States to
make insolvent laws for the United Slates. In
Vermont, he knew they made insolvent laws for
every particular case, and, consequently, if this
amendmcDt passed, the United Stales must be
ruled by their irregular proceedings. He did not
wish to subject foreigners to the decisioa o! such
uncertain laws.
[r. Venablb did not know what was the prac-
of other States, but, in the Slate from which
;ame, it would put foreigners only upon tbo
same rooting with others. He bad not understood
that the amendmeni would apply to laws to ba '
hereafter made ; if it had that meaning at present,
be should wish it lo undergo an alteration, other-
wise the Stales might make laws injurious to the
interests of the United States. Oentleinen pre- ,
sent, be said, were acquiinted with all the State
If there was any case tn which it would
'rong to adopt any Slate law in existence, it
ought tolie expressed by those who were acquaint-
ed with the circumstance. They ought, he said,
either to make a general bankrupt law, or adopt
some temporary measure. He thought iheamend-
ment should be adopted.
Mr. R. Sprigo, Jr.. snoke in favor of the amend-
ment. He thought il the best provisioD that could
be made at this late period of the session.
Mr. CoiT said, il was extraordinary to him, that
when a law was proposed to continue in force an
old taw, that so very material an alteration should
be proposed to be made in it. He believed incon-
venience had been experienced uitder the old law,
and this was nearly a copy of it.
He was somewhat bacaward, he said, in slating
his ideas on the subject, because their law ideas
were in some degree trammelled by the practica
they had been accustomed lo. The old Mw waa
agreeable to the practice which he had been ac-
customed to ; it had been complained of aa bear-
ing too hard upon the debtors. Much was said
about the hardship of imprisoning debtors. There
was certainly no propriety in imprisoning a debt-
or, except fat fraud } no one would be of a con-
trary opinion. If a man owed a debt, bis person
could be identified, but his property could not. '
Any duress you can perform, but attempt lo lay
odbyGoogJe
I9tl
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
idH
H.»lt.]
Experue »f fhrtign fntereouite
rM*T,irM.
yoBT hands npon propertf, aai trerjlbiag ia un-
oeitaiD. Were it, therefore^ onlr a guard against
fiiuid. it wa* a desirable thine that a man's per-
■OD Bhonld be laid troM of. A debtor can be im-
priMmeJ at the expense of the creditor. This
powei, he owned, might be abused, from the tio-
Ignt or base dJBptMtlioD of a creditor, but such in-
■taoMS would rarely occur. He scarcely ever
knew an instance of the kiod. If, when a credit-
or threw his debtor ioto prison, he was extremely
•nrafted 'nd revengeful, after he had pa d the ex'
penaes of his debtor BOfneiime in priwn, he soon
eooled. From this circumstance alone, there was
little thance of a creditor keeping in prison a
debtor for a rery long time. As this law had
been practised opon for three years, wilhoni much
inconrenience, he was of opinion ttiey bad better
' The qoestioD on the amendment was pst, and
earned — 43 to 36.
Mr. NioBOLAs moved an amen dni en t, which was
•freed to, to allow all prisoners for debt the free
Bie of their prison yards.
The Committee rose, and the House took up
the consideration of the amendraeoLi, which i
agreed to, and some additional ones made in
House. The bill afterwards passed, but the Se-
nate returned itwithadisagreement to the amend'
Stent, and, on a conference being held, the House
irf RepresenlatiTes gave up their amendment on
accounl of the admission of an ameliorating pro-
Wednesday, May 18.
, The bill protiding pa^'sports for ships and ves-
sels of the United States was read a second time,
and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
The amendments of the Senate to the bill enti-
tled au act for making provision for the payment
of certain debts of the United Stales, were read,
tod ordered to be committed to a Committee ol
the Whole to-morrow.
Mr. Giles hoped the House wonid consent tc
take up the resolaiion, which he yesterday laid
Upon the table, relative to u close of the prewnt
•easion. He had conferred with some gentlemen
of the Senate npon the subject, and il was their
opinion, if Wednesday, the 25ta instant, was in-
•erted, instead oT Saturday, the 21st, all the busi-
ncBs of importance might be got through. He
proposed, therefore, to make that alteration. The
resolution was agreed to.
POST OFFICES AND POST. ROADS.
As the bill in addition to an act to establish
Post Offices and Post Roads in the United St
was about to be read a third time, Mr. Mdhrat
proposed to recommit the bill, in order to strike
out a clvuse vhich woald considerahly sffect the
moruing papers of this city, as it required that
they should he dried before they were sent by
pott, wbirh (as it would be next to impossible to
do it' before seven o'clock in the morning, the
lime at which the papers were to be put into the
yoit office) would have the effect of keeping
those papers from their readers a day longer, and
by this means give an advantage to the evening
Kpers, which might copy whatever was Taluable
im a morning paper, and stand upon the same
ground with it when they gel to the places to
which they were destined. This motion occa-
sioned some debate. It was supported by Messrs.
McRBA7, Giles, and Macok, and opposed by
Messrs. Harper, Thatcues, Williams, E.it-
TCRA, and Jacesoh, partly on account ot the ei-
pedieuey of the clause lor the purp<ne of pre-
serving the papers, and partly that no lime might
be lost, and by that means endanger the passage
of the bill (which contains regulations f6r many
new post roads) this session.
The motion was at length negatived, 40 to 31,
and the bill was a-ad a third time and passed. It
was afterwards sent to the Senate, and, in the
coarse of the silting, returned from thence, with
informatjou that they had postponed the consider-
_.; — -r :. .;ii . sejsjon of Congress.
alion of it till a
HILITARr APPROPRUnONa
Mr. W. SMtTB, from the Committee of Wars
and Meatis. made a report on a resolution to the
following effect:
" RetolKd, That there be ai^ropriated, for the
year 1796, for the Military Establishment, in-
cluding the sum already appropriated, dol-
lars; tor the Naval Department, dollars;
and for military pensions dollars, pursuant
to the estimate herewith reported."
The estimate alluded to was made by the Secre-
tary of War^as a sobstiluic for one made last De-
cember; the sum necessary for the Military De-
partment, was estimated at 1,441,209 dollars ; (at
military pensions, 111,259, and for the Naval De-
partment, 113,035 ; making, in the whole, 1,665,193
dollars.
The report, with the papers accompanying it.
was ordered to be referred to a Committee ot
the Whole on Friday.
WEIGHTS AND MGASlTREa
On motion of Mr. Harrison, the House went
into a Committee of the Whole on the hill regu-
lating Weights and Measures, when Mr. CoiT
moved to strike out the first section, and spoke
against tbn proposed plan a!t(%ether. Mr. Ha-
vens and Mr. SwANWicK defended it. The mo-
lion for striking out was negatived, and the bills
agreed to without amendment. It was ordered to
be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.
EXPENSES OP FOREIGN INTEftCOnSSB.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the bill makine provision for pny-
ing the eipenss attending intercourse \»ith fo-
reign natioof, and for continuing in force an act
providing means of intercourse between the Uni-
led States and forei^ nations, for a limited time.
Mr. Gallatin san! he did not know with ifhai
sum the blank should be filled. There was a va-
of which they had no esiimate.
obiervcd that it was very uocer-
ttfin what would he wanted under this bead.
"3,.wx;
,db,Googlc
1990
HBTORY OP CONGlUaSS.
Uat. 1796.1
Ejcpente sf F\)iragn htereourt*.
rH.apR.
There w»s the agencf of Mr. Bajraid, who was
now in Loadon on public bntiaeu, and much
would depend upon his expendiiureK. There were
at present 10 or 50,000 dollars unexpended of
turns appropriated for foreign iniercourse; but it
was coDtemplaied by this bill to appropriate that
Mm a different waf . He would therefore move
to fill the blank with a turn equal to that, yiz :
40^ dollars.
Mr. QA1.LATIN did oat see anjr reason for so
(bis blank was to be filled was merely for
dinsry or contiDceni expenses, which could not
be equal to ibe wnole amouot of ordinary foreign
eipendilure. Und?r the head of Ihe general fo-
reign intercourse, were included all toe foreign
ministers. The sura now to be added related to
their particular situation. The miesion of Mr.
Bayard, he believed, was the principal ; at least
he did not know of any other. He moTed lo fill
tbe blank with 10,000.
Mr. Giua wiabed tbe gentleman who moved
to fill the blank with iO.OOO dollars, would give
the Committee some idea how that sum would
be likely to be eipeoded. If it was .only wanted
on account of the mission of Mr. Bayard, he hoped
10,000 would be enough.
Mr. Sw4KKiCK thought it might be ea«ily con-
geired how 40,000 doUais would be expended.
Mr. Bayard was employed to prosecute the claims
flf the merchants of this country who bad suffered
bf British spoliations; and every one who had
the Least idea of Ihe expensiveness of English law
courts and lawyers, would readily conceive that
40,000 dollars would soon be expended in that
WEV. This wan another ctmsequence of British
•poliatioas 1
The queNtion on forty thousand beinq lost —
Hr. W. Smith moved to fill the blank with
30,000. He said it was itjipoBsible io ascertain
with precision what sum would be wanted. The
MBtleman from Pennsylvania fMr. Swahwiok]
had stated that the expenses attending the reco-
Tery of the amount of spoliations would be very
considerable. He did not think it was right to
embarrass the Executive by voting too small a
sum ; there might be an inconvenience io this,
there would be none in voting a larger sum ; be-
cause, if it wa:f not wanted, ^ey were certam the
Fbesiobkt would not expend it.
Mr. Vbkable did not know upon what princi-
ple this money was asked for the paymentof law-
suits which might attend the recovery of the
amount of spoliations committed by the British
upoft the property of our merchants. He did not
hnow whether it woold be proper to pay the ex-
pense of any such luits; of those which were
brought on ladefensible ground, it certainly was
BM. If there was any law to direct them on this
occasion^ he should be glad to know iL
Ut. 8. Smith said, there was another eypetise
which hod not been meotioned. An agent had
beep teat to the West Indies to obtain evidence
«i M to enable Mr. Bayard to appear in the Bri-
Iwh courts with proper doctmieoCB. Whan the.
subject was fijst proposed, he did not nnderslaod
it;liut hebelieTed it was the intention i^ Oo-
vernment to pay the expenses of the law>suita for
recovering the amount of the spoliations eoin-
mitted upon the property of American merchant*.
And this, he said, was no more than just ; for, if
every merchant was imiri the necessity of pro-
secuting bis own suit, Ihe expense would be enot-
mous i but having an agent on the spot who
would attend to the whole, the expense would
be greatly lessened. Besides, as their ptopertf
had been illegally taken rron> them, it was the
duty of Ooveinment to see them redremed. It
was with this viev^ he believed, that an agent
had been sent to London, and if, said he, we
cripple him by granting too Ltde money to de-
fray his necessary expense^ he might as well
have been kept at home. He shnnla be in fitvor
of 130,000.
Mr. Williams said, they were treading on niea
ground. Whilst he would have justice done Io
our merchants, by baring a sufficient sum ap-
propriated, he would not have too great a sum
proviiled, which might be paid for asserting
claims for which there was no ground. If, for
instance, he said, a vessel were fitted ont with
eontraband goods, and was taken by the British,
if the owner of that vessel were to commence a
suit, which he could not support, to recover his
property, would it be right that the expense of
sucti a trial should be paid out of the Treasury of
the Uoiled States? Ceruinly not. And if they
were to pay the expense of all laits, all who had
[he lea;t chance of substantiating their eUioL
would be forward in bringing their suits ; and, it
the lawyers learnt a very Urge sum was b^u*-
firiated for the purpose of paying them, be be-
ieved, however large they were to make it, it
would all be swallowed up. He thought |80,0B0
too much, but be would agree lo that sum.
Mr. SwANWioK thought the gentleman ttom
New York [Mr, WiLLUMa] need not be nadot
any appceheniiion that the United Stales would
pay the expense of any illegal claims. The Oo-
vernmental a^eut would doubtless refuse to pro-
secute any claim that was dubious. It could not
be suspected that money would be expended for
such a purpose; but a considerable number of
vessels had undergone a kind of mock trial in
Bermuda, and were condemned, for whieh it was
necessary to seek restitution, as well as for those
carried into Great Britain or elsewhere ; but if
citizens were obliged to prosecute their own
claims ai their own expense, the expense wonU,
in some eases, come to more than the property
it-ielf. And why should Government do this, it
may be asked J It was, said Ur. S., b^^caus* the
mercbaais bad a claim upon the protection of the
Uaiied States. They had been exposed to great
losses which they had sat quietly under, reposing
upon Gove rumen t to obtam them redress; m{
from the knowledge he had of the expense of lav
in England, he did not think $30,000 wonU ie
sufficient to defray the expense to be incurred;
and if they should not appropriate a Mifficicnt saiB
for the ptupwe, the UMrriiaiili wonid not get a^
.dbyGoogle
BISTORT OF CONGRESS.
H-opR.]
Expetue of Foreign /nUreourte,
[M*T, 1796.
tiitfaetion, bul would, perbaps, hflieafler call upoo
that House for reimbunemenl.
Mr. NicHOL&a wished to Dse caution on this
fubjecL If gentlemen woatd say how much was
wanted, bd4 fot what, he could Jud^ of the pro-
priety of the expense ; bat, without some esti-
mate, he could not sav that 910,000 or any other
■nm was sufficient. He believed it was not the
proper time to consider whether the object was a
proper one. when they were about to fill up ihe
Uank. Tnere mijhi be some objections to the
manner of expending (his money, but he was not
prepared to make ibem. He belieTed it was
Uicidental to the EzecutiTe business. The Kub-
ject wu nncertain; but, as he wished for an
agreement, be proposed to fill up the blank with
t»,000.
Mr. KiTTEBi was in favor ofilling the blank
with t30,000; not that he thought the United
StatPS was bound to make good the losites of our
merchants. He believed fhat gentlemen need
-not be alarmed about Toting too much money on
this occasion, as he did not think another Bnroy
Eztraordibaty would be sent to Oreat Britain,
and if it was not wanted it would not be ex-
pended.
Mr. QiLES said, it was the worst reason that
could be girea lor Toting a large sum of money,
to say, if It was not wanted it would not be ex-
pended. If this argument were to hare anjr
weight, it would gotogire the Executive unli-
mited power orer the Treasury. If it Ci'uld not
be aid what the exact amount of the sum now
■aked for was necessary, he supposed some esti-
mate might be made, so that they should not be
onder the necessity of giving a Tote ad tUnfum.
It appeared to him that the proper Legislative
discretion was to come as near as possible to what
was necessary. With respect Vi the reimburse-
ment of the losses of oat merchants, that was not
the question before them. They had made an
(ieclioD, they had chosen to rely upon Great Bri-
tain for redress. He did not believe they would
-getall they expected, but he wished the experi-
ment to be fairly tried. He did not know that the
United States ought to defray the expenses of
trials in legal as well as illegal condemnations.
It appeared singular that the United Stales sboald
be called upon lo pay the expense of either. If
the Treaty meant anyibinE, it meint to make
complete recompense, and, therefore, a large sum
eoold not be necessaTV. He was willing to
for a proper sum, but he would never agree t
low the Kzecutive uncontrolled power ovei
Treasury. He was one who was not acquainted
with the object of the mission of Mr. Bayard, and,
therefore, could not say what sum was proper '~
be appropriated on this occasion.
Mr. W. Lthan did not understand what we
.the duties of Mr. Bayard in London. He did n
!think the United States ought to ny Ibe expens
attending the law suits io&iituted to recover tl
property of our merchants. He conceived that
onr merchants would first apply to the British
Conns of Admiralty for redress, and that if ibey
fiuM theie, they irouM make application t< "
Commissioners. If they failed in obtaining re-
dress, it was said ibey would ultimately come
upon the United States. This was not the time,
be said, to determiue that question. He eonia
not discover the use of this agent. Individuals
who had lost their property, might employ whom
they pleased to recover it ;^ but were the United
Suies to pay the expense 1 He thought not. It
appeared toliim that the agency of this person
was no longer necessary. However, if^ there
could be any information given to show the se-
cessily, and what expense was necessary to be in-
curred, he could determine ; but, at present, he
Mr. Venable said, that bis objections to the
bill did not arise from the amount of money, but
because there was no provision made by law
which directed such expenses to be home by Go-
vernment as are now contemplated. It was a
new subject, which must be determined upon by
Congress; for it would not come in under the
heaaof foreien intercourse. Had it been deter-
mined, be asked, by the Legislature that the pro-
posed expense of prosecutions should be paid by
Oovemmenti It had not. If en individual had
his vessel and cargo uojnstly taken bv the British,
he would recover, as he supposed, both the amoimt
of his soods and cost of prosecuting his claim.
This bad always been the case ; but, if the United
States were to pay the expenses of these law-
suits, it ousht to be provided for by law. If the
expense of the agency alone could be brought
forward, he wouM vote for it but he could not
consent to vote for money, the expenditure of
which was not authorized by an act of the Legis-
Mr. S. Burra believed gentlemen had fotgot-
ten the situation of the United States three years
ago. The British Court had issued an order di-
recting the property of neutral Powers to be car-
ried into their ports. In consequence of which
order a great number of out vessels were carried
into their ports; the masters of which returned
home without making any appeal. For each of
the owners to prosecute his own appeal, would
be an expense equal, perhaps, to his whole loss,
as he had known a single law-xnii in London cost
1,200 guineas ; besides, it was a national question,
and Oovernmeut had propertv interfered to re-
lieve OUT citizens from loss. An asent had been
sent to London for the purpose. He would do
the business at comparatir^y a small csjiense.
The United States, he said, .owed their citizens
protection ; and if they did not grant it to them,
those who suffered losses should be allowed to
make reprisals. When they voted to fill the
blank before them with t30,000. tbey did not ny
it was to be expended. The Executive would
certainly not spend more than necessity required.
He hoped, therefore, that the Uank would be GIM
with that sum.
Mr. OiLEB said, be never was called upon to
decide 00 any question where he had so little in-
formation as in the present case. Thcr were
withooi law, i>nd without estimate from the pro-
per department Ghntlemen conld not say thoae
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
BAay, 1796.]
Expente of fbreign hOereaate.
who wtre an willing to vote foi t30,000in the dark,
were opposed to the meKsnre; but tbey would not
give $30,000, because thejr could not see a neces-
sity for more than $10,000. He wu of opinion the
latter sum would be aufficieoi. aa it waa probable
the expense of the agent, aa far aa it was goae,
waa paid. They had no account of the expendi-
ture of $200,000 taken from the million appropri-
ated for purchaaing a peace with Algiers ; and he
conld not conceive that more than $10,000 would
be realljr wanted, if, ta be suppoaed, the expenses
already incurred by Mr. Bayard were paid. If
the Executive should say more was wanting, he
would have no objection to vote for it ; but until
■ they bad documents on which to form some judg-
ment of what was wanted, he waa not willing to
rote for the sum propoKd. In most other caaea,
when agents were employed, they had some idea
of the duties of his office, but in this ease he was
an utter stranger to them.
Mr. SwANWicK wished b; could join gentle-
men in ihinkiog that there was no occssion for
their agent in London. They need only take up
any ofonr morning papera, and they will nee the
practice of taking our ships and men is still con-
tinued. With respect to the expense which may
attend this agency, the gentleman from Virginia
("Mr. Giles] must know that even in jhia coun-
try law is expensive, bat much more so in Qrcat
BritatD. It is, said he, a part of their revenue,
the sums raised by means of stamp; being im-
mense. $10,000. which had been tneniioned, he
TFBS confident, would by no means be adequate.
He was afraid $30,000 would fall short. He was
afiraid it would require two or three times that
sam before the business waa completed.
Mr. W. Smith said, gentlemen had expressed
a surprise that no estimate had been received
from the Executive. There was nothing sur-
prising in it. There were, he said, $45,000 m the
Treasury, wbii-h were reserved by the Executive
for these extraordinary expenses; but this bill
contemplated the taking of that sum away and
applying it to other purposes ; the House must,
therefore, replace that anm with aome other re-
BOOrcea. Oentiemen knew that there would be
the expense attending Mr. .Bayard's agency in
London, and that of an agent to the West Indies,
which must be considerable; they muat also
know that, in time of war, neutral nati
be put to extra expenses in their foreign inter-
conrse, which were not incurred in rime of peace.
Was it right to refose the Executive $20,000 or
$30,000 for this nnrposel He did not think tbe
pRBainBHT had done anything to warrant this un-
reasonable distrust
Mr. WiLUAUs said, he was at a loss what to
vote for. The gentleman from Maryland [Mr.
S. Smitb] had said they had commenced the bu-
siness, and were bound to continue it. He thought
if they had Legun to do an improper ihin^, the
sooner they got (juit of it the better. He wished
the expenses which were to be borne to be desig-
nated. The sum proposed might not be enough,
or it might be three times loo much. Whenever
appropriations were made, It was always azpect-
ed that the House should have some sort of ea-
timale upon which to act. He thought the gen-
tleman from Virginia [Mr. GilesJ said rightly,
when he observed no one knew in what this
money was to be expended. If said Mr. W., it ia
to go for law-Nuits, it ought to be so di.'signated.
Mr. Giles could not help remarking upon what
had fallen from the gentleman from South Caro-
lina, [Mr. W. Smitb.] His information had sa-
tisfied him that the expenses of Mr. Bayard were
mid hitherto. That gentlenian had said (hat
$45,000 remained of a former appropriation, but
had been taken away. It would he noticed that
the sum now appropriated waa not the whole snm
allotted for foreign correspondence, but en addi-'
tional sum, Tbey had already appropriated
$40,000 and if they now appropriated $30,000
more, it would make $70,000. He supposed, at
the time the $40,000 were appropriated, that aum
was to cover the whole of the foreign expenditure.
But now they were called upon for $30,000 more
to defray the expenses of an agency to London.
He could not ibmk one-third ofihe money would
be wanted for this purpose, and, therefore, would
confine hi? vote to that sum.
Mr. S. Smitb waa not at all surprised that gen-
tlemen who were so much averse to the Treaty,
should wish the blank to be filled with $10,000
only, because this would destroy the means oi ob-
taining the proposed redress. It woald destroy
the Treaty; but, that tbe gentleman from New
York, [Mr. Williahb,] who made a speech oS
two hours long in favor of the Treaty, should lean
to Bueh an opinion, he was astonished. Suits, ha
said, must first be instituted in the British Courts,
which, if they did not appropriate money to pay
for, could not be carried on, and the redress
Goposed by the Treaty to the merchants of the
nited States would be defeated. If the gen-
tleman from New York, tiierefore, wished to
defeat tlie intention of the Treaty, ne would vote
against the sum proposed ; if not, he wonid vote
for it.
Mr. Williams trusted that every man who
voted for carrying tbe Britiah Treaty into effect,
did so because he thought it for the interest of the
United States. It did not appear to him that the
present question bad anytbmg to do with the
Treat);, Since tbe Treaty was adopted, he did
not wish to hear anything more about it. He
trusted he should be found a good citizen, and do
all in bis power to carry it into effect
Mr. Gallatin said, the present wb* by no
means a Treaty question. There was no connex-
ion between Mi. Bayard's mission and the Trea-
ty— he was appointed before the Treaty was rati-
fied. The gentleman from Maryland [Mr. S.
Smith,] did not attend to the arguments of the
gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. GiLGeJ He did
not object to Mr. Bayard's mission. He wished
only to have some spaiificatioQ for which $30,000
were wanted. If the object of the mission was
known, and some estimate was before ihem, they
should he willing to appropriate wbateverappear-
ed to be necessary, ir they appropriated so large
a sum as that propoaed, it mignt be applied to ol>-
;dbvGoogle
1399
mSTOBT OF CCtfiOKRag.
i4m
H.o>R.]
Expetue ^ fbre^ biUrtaurt.
jects jastifiable by, and wilbin tbe genenl expres-
Bion of, the law, and yet different from those in-
tended by the Le^slature. viz : of defrafing the
ctpense of law-nuits. They had formerly, he
nid, appropriated a millioa of dollar? for foreign
fntercounie, which had been expended according
to law, but tbe whole of which was not spent ac-
cording to the intention of those who voted fot it
Bo it might be in this caj;e ; and, though the Pre-
t of the United Slates, provided it wu for
the general purpose of foreign intercourse: yet,
M they were called upon to make a grant of pub-
lic money, it was necessary to have some esti-
mate by which to regulate ine amount ; but bav-
iog no such estimate, no demand for money, i(
was perfectly right to flU the blank with the
smaller snm proposed: if more be wanted, it will
(rf course be asked. Ai>d here he would observe,
upon what had fallen from the centlemao from
Boutfa Carolina, [Mr. W. Smith.I He sai'l that
there remained a balance of {45,000 of a former
spvropriatioD, which they propwwd to transfer to
Mother object. This sum, he raid, wu the ba^
lance remaining from the appropriationf made
two years ago. Tbe effect of the law carried
this sum to another fund ; it went to the surplus
flmd, and, therefore, could not hare been appro-
priated to the object now under consideration.
Mr. NicBOLAB beliered nobody would be influ-
enced to vote against tbe blank beingfiUed with
$30,000, because he voted against the Treaty ; be
riioald vote for it on that ground. He did not
wish to take any of the faults or failures of the
Treaty upon himself, and, therefore, he would
appropriate 'irbatever was asked for as necessary
to enable gentlemen to make tbe best of it. He
believed if they did not now appropriate tbe sum
feqoired, the^ could not hinder the President,
from getting it, as they had already appropristed
t40,000for foreign correspondence. He should
' give his vole, therefore, for the largest sum men-
tioned.
Mr. Tract would a$k the gentleman from
Pennsylvania [Mr. ai.LL&T[Nl why he would
•rote for 10,000 dollars 1 Hedid not know that it
would be wanted. They had not any statement,
Bor could they biive any of the money which
would be necessary. What, said he, i.t our ex-
ternal siiaftiion 7 and what will it be whilst the
war in Europe coniiiioes f He wished to know
where the money was to be found necessary to
S.y all the expenses which would necesMiily be
curred in keeping up their foreign relations 1
Gentlemen were wilting chat the Executive
should take a great deaf upon himself, have a
great deal of responsibility, and they were very
leadjr to And fault when every thius was nol
done to their wishes, but when called upon for
the money neceasary for the occasion, it was re-
Aued because no estimate was raadej because
the expenses were contingent, and could not be
calculated. $30,000 might be enough, or it might
BOt. He deeirej gentlemen to look on the affairs
vi Europe ; until the mx there should cease, he
said, the expenses of our foreigit eorr«apoBdence
would necessarily be large. To give ttie Frbu-
nxHT ample means was the best way of prevent-
ing the impressment of our seamen, and the inw-
ries committed upon our commerce ; but, if Uie
neccfsary means were withheld, all the aiuhori-
ties would be crippled, and we should abroad be
laughed at.
Mr. LiTiKOBTON said, meaning, as be did, to
vole against filing up the blank with tSOJUO,
he would give the reasons which influeaced his
vote. If this appropriation had been ask.:d for to
Ely the expense of new foreign agent^ he would
ave given it his support) but he coula not agree
to give money for the purpose assigned; for, if.
the President were to pay the expetiin of the
suits which were to be instituted for obtaining re-
dress for prizes illegally taken from oar citixcn^
he should be authorized to do so by law. And if
they agreed to appropriate the sum reanired for
foreign intercourse, the President could not ex-
pend the money in the way mentioned ; for what
connexion, said he, had the expense of such law-
suits with foreign idiercourse 7 It was said the
United States were to indemnify our tnercluuils
from loss ; but this could not be done by a. gene-
ral appropriation for the expenses of foreign in-
tercourse; it must be done, he said, by ■ fipeeiaj
appropriation fot the purpose ; yet this might as
well be done under this apptopriation an to n|
tbe law-suits under it. He should, therefor^
vote against this additional appropriation, except
it could be shown to be necessary for the addi-
tional salaries of agents. He was not certaia
that these considerations would have weight
with others, but they had weight upon his nund,
and, unless more mfotmallon was given apon
the subject, he should vote against the sum pro-
posed.
Mr. SwANWicK vraa of opinion that tbe proi^
cntiag of tbe appeals of our merchants to recovot
'''"'" property illegally taken from them, might
very properly be paid out of the sums appropria-
ted for foreign expenditure. His friend fiotattew
York [Mr. Livinobton] had said, that i( the Pu-
ainesT undertook to pay the expense of these law-
suits, without any direct authority, he mi^hl alto
go on to indemnify our merchants lor then losses
aliogelberj but that genitemao must allow that
[his could not be done, unless a sum sufficiently
large was appropriated for tbe purpose. Undoubt-
edly, if a sum large enough was granted, he might
apply it for that purpose, because it would be
known, at the time it was granted, that it most be
appropriated to something of the kicd. Haw
was this relevant to the present case ? Can the
President satisfy the losses of our merchants
out of thirty thousand dollars? Certainlr ata;
and he thought it only reasonable that tna ex-
pense of tbe suits instituted to recover the losses
of our merchants should be paid by Governmeal,
otherwise the recovery would in many eases be
too heavy for an individual to bear. And if they
were to appropriate too small a sum fot this ptu-
pose, would not tbe merchants come to that House
and say, "because yon did not allow a
.dbyGoogle
1401
HHTCmT OF CONOIUSSS.
Mat, 1796.]
JS^jrjMMc tf S^i^fii
[H-oflL
^ u fotreKitutioiil" Hb hoped bo one wouli .
mflueoced in his vole oa this oecwion bf his dii
like to tbe Treaty ; ilul question bad nothiBg to
do with the preiwat. Mr. S. concluded with ob-
strTiDs;, tbal be bad no oalculations on the tub'
ject; bui, as he bad before said, be knew ibe
cxpeoiJreBets of British courts of law, and he
wonJered that tbe law eentlemea in that Houm,
who knew verjr well Mie price of law, sboidd
think ibe turn too large. r
Mr Havemb said, that it appeared to bimaTery
improper way of doing buaioeas, to inelttde, under
the general exprewion of ''foraign intercourse,'' as
it was expressed in the bill, lueh a great Tariety
of Mibjecu, very diSereot in tbeir nature, about
which it might be suppmed neceesarr to expend
some portion of the public moneTa. He thought
that when tbe Houaa was called upon to make
apnriipri aliens of the publie 'moneys, they ougbl
at least to hare before tbem *ucb a weciiic detail
of the several particalan about which it was sup-
posed necesaary that public mosey ahoutd be ex-
pended, aa would e«able them to judge of the
aeceesity or propriety .of making the expenditure.
He wished to bare the clause so amended aa to
enunemie the perticulat objects of expeitditure
wjiich had been mentioned by tboae.who advo-
cated it as it thea stood. He then moved that the
clause should be ao amended as to ny, that the
money should be appropriated for tbe purpose of
defraying the expenses that would arise in prose-
cuting certain suits in the Courts of Great Britain,
oa Bcaount of lite apoliations that had been com-
mitted on the American commerce, and for other
conliageut expenses, tuatead of saying generally
for the purposeij of "foreign interoourse."
Ut. NicnoLas seconded the motion-
Mr. Giles hoped they should not agree lo the
amABdmeot. It would support tbe idea tbnt they
were to make indemnitcaiion for all the spolia-
tions which iiie British had committed upon the
Caperty of ouc mercbsnts; ■ |winciple he should
very unwillingtosanoiion. He wasof opinion
that not one farlbiag of tbe money now appropri-
ated would be expended in that way. Tne view
he had of the businesa was, that the money was
wanted to answer any conliazency which might
arise from the present state of Europe. He was
for baring the merchants so on in tbeir own way,
and to get all tbey could from the British. Con-
sidering ibe ^position as aSbrding an additional
sum for keeping up foreign intercourse, he would
consent to fill up the blank with (30,000, which
would make the sum already granted (60,000,
but with no indirect view of interfering with the
claims irf'oar merchanta.
Mr. Dayton was decidedly against the amend-
ment and preferred the bill, aa it would read with-
out it. The relief of American seamen was with
him one of the objects as well as the affordii^ of
aid to the mercbaats, who were sufiering, or muihl
hereafter anSer from the depredations of English
eruiaera. To afford aid in prosecuting tbe appeal:
ef Un mercfaanta, did not, he aaid, Iw any mean:
sanction th« printiifile tiuit the Unitail Ekaiea were
bound and prepared to nuka good tbeir btaea, if
they were not aaiialied by the Britiah. T« that
princirie be should never egrve.
Mr. LivmesTOEi explained.
Mr. Vbhablr said, by the amaidmeDi proposed
tbe ihiikK was farought to issue. Gentlemen ware
agreed that this money was wanted for a certain
purpoae, but when that purpose wat brought fcv-
ward and inserted in the bill, they were opposed
to the meeting of it. It was said, if they made
provision for the payment of the expeaac of law-
suits, tbey must also make provision for (be pav-
meut of the spoliations themselves^ But sbovU
be said in that House that ibey would not pay
the expetiac of these law-suits, and yet expeet the
Pbesidbnt to do this % Could it be supposed tbM
the Phhbidbkt would do au act which the Leg^
lature would not do ? If >30,000 were wanted for
the usual foreign expenditure, he would vote for
it, but not for an object which tbe House seemed
unwilling to saMiion.
Mr. W. Smith objected to tbe Motiaa^ betag
in order.
Mi. Havbks aatd, that he had Mit propoaed tbe
amendment to the clauae ODd« conaideruion h*>
cause that he approved of the principle of payiBf
for the apoliaiiona that bad been commbte4 mi
American coi|uner«e, under all exialiog eiieiun-
stanees, but merely thai gentlemen might rote for
the appropriations of the public money, on tlw
S round or for the reasons which tbey thema^vea
ad aaaigaed in favor of the elanae when cxpreaa-
edtaamore general way, under the idea of fbfeigD
intercouraaj and be was auiprised to Ind any
gentleman oppoaed to au amendment wbiob ea-
pressed tbe very icaaons which he binaelf bad
urged in lavor of the clanse when espraased ■■ a
more general way. He did not thioa that they
ought to avoid the making specific appropriatiow,
under color of such general expressions; he wafi
besides this, of opinion that it would not be oeat-
ing the pBEBinBHT well to pnt him in such a aitii-
atiun as to make it necessary for him to deat^aate
all the particular objeott of publie ei^eadtlON,
when tbey were not detailed in the law itself. If
gentlemen intended that the PacaiBaNT sbotibl
expend the money about the law-suita in qnea-
tion, they ougbc tosay lo'in tbe law, and take tbe
responsibility of the measure upon themaeJvca.
After the clause was amended in the way that be
had proposed, tbey oould then decide with more
proprietv ou the clause itself.
Mr. WiLLiAna was opposed to the amendnacat
because he did not wish to pay the expenses, at
least, of all the law-saits in queatioa. The |m-
ileiDan from Maryland [Mr. S- Shitb] bad mia-
taken him. He did not oppose the svm beeaoae
he was unwilling to grant tbe neceaaary appropri-
atioDs, but because the object towhieh (he aieoay
was to be applied was not mentioned.
Mr. Maooh moved to atrike out tbe whole act- .
tion. He thotight they had nothing Id do lyith
Ibe recovery ofdamagea for the apoliaiiona of the
Briliib, for which this moucy seemed to be waa^
ed. He thought they were as much bound to pqr
the spoliMisaa thamaelves a* the law^aitaj u do
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF C(HJGHESS.
fl.OF.R.J
Esepaue ef Foreign btUreouiwe.
[MiT, irss.
dtH would be makiog all persons, od land, a kind
of underwriters for adveoturers at sea.
Mr. QiLBERT could uot see any reaton for ob-
iectioff to fill tbe blank with thirty thousand dol-
lan. If they were to caatiaue there erer so long,
(hey could not say for what thii money was want-
ed. It must go ior contingencies. He hoped the
section would not be struck oat. It was the busi-
ness of the EiecuciTC to direct the expenditure of
the money, andof that House to appropriate moaev
to enable him to do it. The object of his col-
lea^e fMr. Havens] was to specify the object (o
which the money should be applied ; to direct the
PaMiDBNT how he should manage foreign inter-
conise. Where he found this doctrine, he could
not say ; the Constitution knew Done such. He
believed they should make the appropriation. He
would not say it should be for this or that pur-
pose, but leave it to tlie Fbesideht to expend it
lu the ^ay which appeared to him most proper,
Mr. D&VTOH could not suffer the qoestian to be
taken before be said a few words in answer to the
.tleroan from North Carolina, who seemed to
ink that the money now to be appropriated
to be eipended oolv in disch~ " '" """ "
of law-suits. The
subjected to indirect censure, because immediate
teUef had not been obtained for impressed Ameri-
can seamen, when the means of doing it were not
afforded him by the Legislature. If agents should
be a^inted pursuant to the bill that had passed
the House of Represeoiaiires, an appropriation
woold nevertheless be necessary, in order to ena-
ble and induce the Consols to co-operate with
them in so hamane and important a work. Every
. s:
one moat know that, during the present war, ex-
traordinary expense most necessarily be incurred
in the maintenance of tranquility and oentralily,
and in the preservation of foreign intercourse and
good understanding.
In cases of the seizure of the property of Ame-
rican citizens, contrary to the Law of Nations,
where a represeotation or remonstrance must be
made from this Qovemmeni to that of the offend-
ing party, it would be necessary to send abroad in
order to obtain extracts from Court records, or
other proof^ to establish the fact of a violation ;
yet this could not be done without expense, and
was but one of the very many instances which
might occur to require expenditures of money,
and where the want of it would prove exceedingly
detrimental to their general interests. It they
dionid refuse to make the necessary appropriation
they could not justly blame the Executive if the
moat effectual measures were not taken and per-
' severed in, to promote the interests of this coun-
try as an independent nation.
Mr. MiLCON said they had passed a bill relative
to seamen, which was now in the Senate. This
money had nothing to do with that bill. The
genilemaa from New Jersey had told them or this
expense before, but gentlemen in graeral expected
. and, aaid he, if we interfere in tbeae
soita, may not our citizens My, in any ease which
■a unsuecearfal, "if you liad let us manage our own
luits, we could have recovered our losseBl" Both
the seamen and the treaty, said Mr. H., are pro-
vided for, and if money enough was not voted for
those purposes, he would vote for more, and there-
fore saw no necessity for meotioning them there-
Mr. OiLES said, he should not have risen again
had it not been for what had fallen from tfaegen-
tleman from New Jersey [Mr. Davton.] Wnat-
ever might be tbougbl of ibe penury of thai
House, he thought they had voted very large
sums for foreign intercourse. They had appro-
priated a million of dollars for purchasing a peace
with Algiers; but two hundred thousand dollars
of that sum had been taken for foreign intercourse,
he believed, with great propriety. However, as
they had appropriated so amply all that had been
asked for, he thought there was no ground tot
charging them with not appropriating sufficiently.
He should vote against striking out this clause;
but. in doing this, lie would not be understood to
luihorize the President to expend this mcmey in
aw-suits. If he had done it at all. be hoped lie
lad BO done it as not to make the United States
ultimately answerable for the losses of our mer-
chants. He was willing to vote for twenty tho«-
sand dollars, which he thought enough ; and as
they had no information from the Frebideht on
the subject of these law-suits, he hoped the money
would not be expended upon them.
Mr. Williams said a few words against striking
out the clause, and against appropriatinr the
money for the payment of law-suits^ He fioped
it would not be so used.
The motion for striking out was pal and nega-
tived.
The question was about to be |mt for filling die
blank with thirty thousund dollars ; when
Mr. Oallatlk said, the gentleman from New
Jersey had mentioned the expeoiiecf semiiDgaii
agent to the West Indies. He found, by referring
to the Secretary of the Treasury's ■ecountx, that
the expense of Mr. Higginson's agency baA been
charged to the contingent expenses u Qovem-
ment, and not to the head of ureign inteicoorse.
He found that by far the greater propoitioe of the
yearly appropriation of (30,000, for contiagent ex-
penses of Government, had, in the year 1794^been
expended for that object or for foreign inter-
course; there being but a sum of one hundred
and eighty dollars applied that year to contin-
gent expenses of anouer nature. He read the
statement of receipts and expenditures. Hence,
raid he, two things appear : first, thai the expenses
attending agency to the West Indies have usually
been charzed to the account of contingent ex-
penses, and will of course be provided for when
we make the usual appropriation for that pur-
pose ; and secondly, that it would be useless to
appropriate $SO,OOU for the contingent expenwt
of Government, were it not for the object of foreign
intercourse ; that that appropriation is in fact an
appropriation for foreign intercourse; and that tbc
sum with which ihey were going to fill the hiank
would be, in fact in addition, not to the S4O,0D(
already appropriated, but to a sum of ^60,000,
wfaiok might eventually and eommtmly wu
.dbyGoogle
HIBTOBT OP CONGRESS.
Mat, 1796.]
Ship*' Paatporta—DtOi/ on Sm^.
pi.ora.
•pplied to defray tbe ezpeosu of foreign inter'
coorae.
The question being put for $30,000, it wbb oe-
gatired— 40 to 36.
Hr. W. Smith then moTed $25,000. He aaid
there would be no more ineooTenience from
rotiug a large aum than a aniall, one, aa if it was
not wanted, it would not be expended. With
retpect to tne $40,000 already appropriated, ke
believed it was wholly eipeoded la salaries, and
(25,000 might be wanted for contiBgenl ezpentes.
The qoealion was. put and lost — 36 to 37.
The gueatiaD was iben put and carried on
$30,000, Dy a large majority.
Thdkbdat, May 19.
The bill for proyiding relief for persons impris-
ODed for debt was read a third lime and passed.
The bill directing certain experiments to be
made to ascertain an uniform principle to rpgnlate
Weights end Measures, was read a third time and
passed.
The amendments by the Senate to a bill in ad-
dition to an act supplementary to an act for pro-
Ttding more efleetnaly for the collection af duties
I be committed to a Committee of the Whole
Mr. W. Smith, from the Committee of Wayi
and Means, to whom were referred the bill from
the Senate resulating tbe compensation of clerks,
reported the bul, with one amendment; which was
read.
A message was received from the Senate,
their amendment* to the bill for laying duties on
, carriages fur the cooTeyance of persons; which
were twice read, and referred to a select i
mittee.
SHIPS' PASSPORTS.
The bill for providing passports for ships and
ressels of tbe United Stales, which orii^naled in
the Senate, was about to be read the third time
when
Mr. S. Smith said, he believed there was a
clause in the bill originating rcTcnne, (as it di-
rected aums to be paid for passports,^ which was
an encroacfameat upon the ^wers or that House,
who only bad a right to onainaCe revetiae laws.
He believed the Senate had done it without in-
tention, and he did not wish to enter into any
contest with them on the subject, but to postpone
the cunsideration of the bill.
Other gentlemen thought it would be better to
reject tbe bill, and originate a new one ; which
coarse, af^er some observations, was adopted.
The' bill was accordiogly read a third time, and
rejected unanimouslv.
Mr. W. Smith said, that as they had rejected
the bill providing passports, as improper to have
originated in the Senate, be would move. " That
the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures
be iiutrucled to bring in a bill for nroviding pass-
ports for ships and vesaels of the United States."
Agn^ to.
EXPENSES OF FOREIGN INTERCOURSE.
The bill making farther provision for defraying
the expenses of interconrse with foreign na t ions,Bnd
to continue in force an act providing means of in-
tercourse between the United Slates and foreign
nations, was read a third time ; and afta a few
observations on the time which ii should remain
the coarse of which it was observed,
by Mr. Oileb, that he hoped the time was not
far distant when they should have less to do with
foreign nations than they had at present—its con-
tinuance was confined lo one year, and from .
thence to the end of the next session of Congress.
The blank for the sum of money appropriated
was filled up, according to the estimate from the
proper Department, with $324,539 06. The bill
waa then passed.
ROAD FROM MAINE TO GEORGIA.
Mr. Madison moved that Ihr, House should
resolve itself into a Committee of ihe Whole on
the bill enabling the PBEaiDEiiT to cause to be
examined, and, where necessary, suiveyed, the
post roads from Wiscasset in Maine, to Savannah
10 Georgia, and to report the expense that would
attend the transmission of the mail thereon. Tbe
House refolved itself into a Committee of the
Whole accordingly, when, after two amendmenta,
viz : adding the city of Waabington to the other
towns mentioned, and inserting Portland instead
of Wiscassel, and filling up the blaok appropri-
ating a sum of money tor the purpose, with fire
thousand dollars, the Committee roie and re-
ported the hill. The House took up the amend-
ments, agreed to them, and the hill was ordered
for a third reading to-morrow.
DUTT ON 8NDFF.
Mr. S. Smith having made a motion lo go into
a Committee of tbe Whole on the bill supf^
mentary to the act, entitled " An act to alter and
amend the act laying certain duties upon snuff
and refined sugar," —
Mr. SwAitwicK presented a second petition from
Richard Oienon &, Co., expressive of the injury
they should receive by the alteration which was
proposed to be made in the drawback to be allowed
on snuff exported, and prayins. amongst other
things that t^e intended act might not have force
until April 1, 1797, in order that they might fulfil
their present enngements with foreign countries.
The House then went into Committee of the
Whole on that subject; when
Mr. BoDBNG, from the Committee of Comoteree
and Manufactures, said that they bad been favored
with information from various quaiters, and be
trusted the present bill would meet tbe wishes of
manufacturers, and produce considerable revenue.
The first clause, he said, provided for mills being
entered for a year or less, the want of such a pro-
vision haviog destroyed many manufactories, who,
for various reasons, did not keep their milts going
the whole year. They had also inserted a clanaa
to remit the duly in tbe case of destruction by flte,
or otherwise, at the instance of manufacturan.
With respect to the drawback, it had been found
.dbyGoogle
BBSTOBV OF CQNGBBS&
14m
vB.]
»af <m Sm^.
DMeMary either to take itawarBltoselbeJiOrcoD-
fidenbly to reduce it. The; bad cboMV tbe lat-
ter way of remedf ing the eviL Mr. B. said, it
appeared from tbe report of maDufactarers of dif-
ferent kinds of soufi, that, if the duty contioued
«B at present, it would oiierate very unequally.
«Dd that manufacturerB of wet tobacco otigbt uot
U pay more than one-thiid of the duty paid by
tbiMe who laaiiufaetured it dry. The bill was
Don/oKaed to this priociplA, «ad teemed to be
■greed to, both by awnuiacturei* of wet and dried
lobacoo.
Ur. CUi'i'^'riii wished, before he made any ob-
•ervationt on tbe sutject, the feoilenian last up
would give the Committee more iutbrmation rela-
lire to Enuff manufactured wet and dry, and whe-
ther it was not calculated, that, when it waa manu-
faclured wet, lesa wa^ doqe in the wme time, and
of a better quality, than when mauufhctured dry,
and whether that ntaanfactured wet did not Belt
mX a hiffher price than that manufactured dry.
Mr. BoDxm Mtid, he wa« not very well
faainted with the manufacture of snufi'. He would
Mad the petition, which he bad in hit hand, on
Aat subject; by which it would appear that three
limes ttie number -of mortars was necessary for
tbe manuftcturing of wet, that were necessary in
Bwnufaeturin^ dry tobacco.
Mr. Oallatim believed tbe snuff man nlactu red
wet, was of a belter quality, and would sell for
more money than that manofaetured dry. It was
well understood that the law, as it now stood, io-
■Kftd of beittf prodiKtive, was a bill of cost, more
b«ing paid iu drawbacks than was rec^iTed for
duty. This arose, chiefly, from the ezportationi
of one manufacturer, who, it seemed, manufac'
tured a larger qgautity than was supposed to be
possible when the bill passed. He aid not know
whether this arose from the snuflT manufactured
by him beiog of an inferior quality, or whether it
was from the introduction of new machinery into
the manufactory. Yet, he believed, that, shape
the bill as they pleased, no rerenue would ever be
drawn from snuff.
At present, to remedy one grievance, another
was introduced, which would be as disadvanta-
MOUB as the drawback, by giving leave to a manu-
beturer making snuff wet to pay only one-third
«f tbe duty paid by those who manufactured it
dry. He knew no way of discovering whether
•nuff had been manufactured from wet or dry ma-
terials. Tbis provision was meant to apply to a
manufacturer who made snuff of a superior quali-
ty to any other person, but he was informed it
would equally apply to one who made very large
quantities of a quality which sold cheaper at mar-
ket, so that he would only pay one.tnird of the
duty paid by other manufacturers, although he
made more- He believed he misht depend upi
the information he had received, though it w
not from the person himself.
edr, though it was
■offle mantiraciurers, but certainly
fcr othara. He would beg leave to r
read au official
Eper, aent to tbeGomnittec of Ways aad Utau
the Secretary of the Treasury, from James
iller, oollector of revMiue at Newcastln, staling
that a Eunff-mill in that neighborhood, (of which
Mr. Jtmes, of Philadelphia, wai the owacr,) made
1,100 poondsofaanff a week, worked moDtki
in the year, and paid (1,130 duly ; wbksb rcdaead
tbedutytotbreeceDtsperpouDd. This, he said, wai
the only official paper they had respeciing Beoieh
SBuff If a duty of three cenu per pound wa* paid
upon Scotch sanff, a drawback to thu aiawtal
ought alsD to be given. At the ave tima, if thi^
werv to reduce the drawback to three cents, it
would be vastly too much to be allowed to tla
other manu&cturer above alluded to. If this last
could, as was asserted, mauiiiaelDre 500,000 poonds
a year, and he paid for his mill $3,200, ii luoeed
the duly of his snuff to less than one cent. Henee
arose great difficulty la laying do^ a cystein for
eollactiog this tax. It was so "" '" "' " '
Committee of Commerce and 1
1 was recommiUi
altoKclhi
> luidbe<
brought ia. A drawback oartainly ought t
allowed in proportion to the money paid. Mr. Q.
said he had collected some infonnaiioa on the
quantity eiporied before the tax was established.
He found the exports, by the custom-bouse booing
had increased from 12,000 to 37,000 ponnda a yaar
in three years. From taformatiWiBe onderttood
that the quantity thus entered on tbe custon-
house hooka was not more than one-third pan
of tbe whole exported, because a part of the sanff
manufactured in this country was sent to the
Sloglisb West India Islands, which cooU not gc^
except unuggted. He might state the yearly ex-
ports before the tax, at 100,000 pouDils *. year.
Any step taken to lay so excise upon this maav-
faclure, without a drawback, was, in his opiaioa,
unjust and impolitic. Tobacco was as much a
staple of America as wheat ; and to lay a duty on
the exportation oftobacco manufactured iota siiuA|
(for au excise, without allowing a drawbu^ wm
a duty on exportation,) appeared to him a* im-
proper as to lay a duly on tbe exportation of wheat
manufactured into flour. As to tbe idea of snuff
beiiig a luxury, tobacco used for ^mc^ing or chew-
ing was equally so, and, in point of justice, there
could be no difference between them.
Mr. Q. read a letter from the Commissioner of
the Revenue to the Committee of Ways and
Means, in order to prove thereat difficulty which
lay in the way of making ibis tax equal, just aod
to preveut fraud. One of the instancy of fiaad.
was the using small hand-milla which wtaie worked
without the least noii^- ^e wished the law iwai
repealed, since it was veialious and nnprofitaUe;
the whole tax not jtroducing more than $12,000 a
year, if all was paid; and if no drawbacks were
allowed, and costing, perhaps, $30,000, it draw-
backs were continued.
bill was under conaideration, and aome-
thing seemed necessary to be done, be would ooly
propose such amendments as he thought would
r the bill.
.'a amendment was, that, instead <^ allow-
.dbyGoogle
mSTOBT OF GONOBE8S.
H&r, 17M.]
Dtitf Ml 0m0^.
,[H.a»II.
ing « eetUiD drawback on aanfil the drawback
■honU T«rf , and afasvld be pei ceuL on the
tmIub of ibe snnfi^ aceonling to its qualitjr.
Hr. G. withdrew, afterwards, this amendment,
in mder to make room for another which went to
repealing, altogether, th* law, and which was
Ur. 8. Bhith hoped the amendment would not
preratL It would bejroing more in the dark than
they had y«t gone. The tax had atwayt appeared
to him an inaignifieaat one. If the nnUemao
from Pennsylvania had peraavered in his Bnt in-
tentioD of proposing a repeal of Ihe tax, he would
hare joined hun in it ; for, he said, it had been a
nnking fund, instead d" an advaata^ to the Unit-
ad States Indeed, one manufacturer had raised
a Tery large bounty, indeed, from it, who now
came forward to pray the Houae not to repeal it,
aa it would rain him. The deeper, he said, ihey
went into a tax on manufaeturca. the more diffi-
culties would be experienced, witnoal haring tje
effect lo raise any revenue.
Mr. Vbnablb said, the more thia subject was
knked into, the moreeTident it appeared that no-
thing eonid be done in the matter at this Uie pe-
riod of the session. In order lo try the aense of
the Committee on Ihe occasion, he should more
tostrike out the first section. Gentlemen appeared
to be fond of this system of taxing manufactures,
and seemed desirous ot cootinniog to haraMi the
people with further expririments which, he waa
eoDhdent, would not be more successful than the
past. As the tax stood at present, it was a loss,
mstead of a gain, to the United States. Gentle-
men said this tax could not be repealed, until it
was replaced by another ; bat, he said, if nothiqg
was received from it, there was no neceMiiy tor
proriding a substitute for il ; bnt.'on the contrary,
to repeal it, would be to do away a coostant drain
upon the Treasury. He would, therefore, either
repeal the law altogether, or suspend it until next
Mr. SwANWicK was of opinion, with the gentle-
man from Virginia, [Mr. VaH*BLB,l that the act
ought lo be repealed, belieTins Ibat it would never
inoduce anything but uneasiness and dissatlrf'ae'
lion in whatever way the tax might be cdlecied.
A proposition was now made to reduce the draw-
back of sis cents to one. How eoatd gmtlemen
raconoile this with ihe law imposing th« duty.
Undoubtedly, said Mr. 8., there was a good deal
of tont in the argiraieat of a mannfaeturer who
eomjjaued of the instability of onr taws on this
oceaaian; for,npon asoppoaitionof aeontinnance
of ihia law, he had enlarged his manufactorv ; but
now, all at once, the drawback was propoaeu to be
radned from six cents to oneeeat per pound. He
hoped Ihe motion wonld he agreed to, because he
believed to repeal the law would erentnally be
the least loss to the Union.
Mr. W. Smith said, that gentlemen would not
accomplish their object by striking oat the first
Kction. Il went to modify the tax in a wav which,
he believed, would be gejierally acceptable to the
tnannfocturers. If the first section was struck out
the tax would still exist ; wad, he aupposed, no
gentleman would think it possible to reperi At
snuff tax this session, without violating the pabtth
engagements. Indeed, if tbpy were to agree toaoeh
a repeal, without a substitute, the PaHiDEirr and
Senate would probably Dotconcur. The duties a riv-
ing from snuff and refined sngar were appropriated,
by an extatiag law, to the payment ofa loan which
had been made, and the faith of the United States
was pledged to make good any deficieacy. He
conpeiveJ it was not a sufficient reaMn for repeal-
ing the law, becauM it did ant produce as much
aa was expected from it. An argument of this
sort would go to the repeal of every other duty.
He thought, when a tax was pledged which wu
nut productive, it should either be so modified aa
to become so, or a new one suheiituted in Itt
place. If the tax on snoffwae not productive, and
which was given lor repealing this tax. might b«
api^ied to sugar, and to the excise on spirits ; and,
by (his meana, instead of adhering to any ayatem
for increaaing the revenue, they would fritter
away the existing rerennes. Same members were
perpetually complainios about the increasing «t
the debt. It was certaiaTy desirable not to increaao
it ; but, if they were to gt> on this way, an increaae
of debt was inevitable. But they say ibis tax pro-
ducer DOlhitig, because it is not properly modifi-
ed— lee it, then, be properly modined. The manu-
facturers ihemaeires do not generally wish the
tax repeated ; they wish only to have it regulated
in the manner proposed fay the bill.
Individual manufacturers, Mr. S. said, bad n*
claim upon the United Slates for any loaa they
sustain aa account of any necessary change*
— ...eir rerenoe laws ; the manufacturers of snuff
themselves, in a pamphlet written in their behalf,
had exposed the mactices made use of lo deceive
Ooremment in the bosine-* of drawbacks. [Mr.
B. read some eitrecl* from the pamphlet] He
thought that, as the revenue had not been ao pro-
ductive as it might be, they oua4)t to endeavor to
make it so. Hefaelieved the mode proposed wouM
have that effect. He would rather do away tha
drawback altogether, than repeal the law ; bn
some geatlemen had thought thh would bo fw-
lating a principle of the Constitulion, hj byiog *
tax on exports; he ««>, therefore, willmg M pot
il at one cent. If it were the object of genllemen
to destroy die bill, ibey had better let it posa to th«
thirdTFading.andthenncgatjveitspasaing. Wbe«
the tax WBs first laid, it waa laid upon the potind j
bat, on Ihe manufactureia' complaiDiiig of great
ineonvenience, in order to aeeommedale tbem,
Rnother law was passed, changing the mode «
ctdleeting the tax. by laying it on the mortar. This
did not satisfy some of them, and he believed,
however. If a tax was laid, there would be soma
complaint against iL It was in the nature of laxea
lo be ineonTenieni and unfdeasant; but, beeausa
a clause in the bill before tfaem was not perfectly
agreeable togenilemen.wasifaatareason for giving
upthedntyaltogetbcr. If the nwDufiteiuren pr*-
IS
,db,Googlc
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
141S
H.orR.j
Dutf m awtff.
fHAT, 1796.
ftned retunirng to tbe original mode of paring
the <luty by the pouod, he Dad do objection to iL
Mr. Smitb was of opinion, there wbr no article
* more proper subject ft» taxation ilxan snuff.
It was taid, why not eziead the tax to tobacco?
He would inform them thai (he report of the
Committee of Ways and Mean* originally stood
■o, but tobacco had been struck out. It might be
remembered, thai snuff imported, formerly paid a
coosideiable duty ; but to favor out own manu-
bctures, the duly bad been increased on foreign
muff so high ae to amouat to a prohibition, and,
unless it produced a reveuue in this way by ex-
cise, none would be deriTed from snuff; and he
eouldnot see why they should lay a duty on brown
augar and spirits, and not on snuff, which was
certainly a mere luxury, and an article of caprice.
He did not know a more fit article of taxation,
and, if the prohibition at foreign snuff was to be
Qonlinued, he thought the eiciie ought also to be
continued. Hewas of opinion that lo alter the law
a* now jiroposed, would improve ine reTenae, and
gire satitfaciion'to the manufacturers in general.
With respect lo the particular manufucturer itho
was to be disappaioMd by this alteralion of the
law, if he suffered toss he should be sorry for him ;
but they were not to consider hia interest alone in
preference to that of the United Stales. That
manufaclurer could not have considered the law
as passed merely as a bounty to him ; if he did,
the Legislature certainly thought otherwise ; ihe?
thougUl of raising from forty to fifty thDUsaatl dol-
lars ■ year from ibe tax, and ihij would have been
nised if the duly had been fairly collected at six
cents per pound. The sums laid upon the mor-
tars, as an equivalent to tbe six cents were taken
from Mr, Leiper, one of the manufacturers, by
himself, and now he was dissatisfied. He hoped
they would pass the bill, and continue the draw-
back at one cent; but, if it was proper that Mr.
GemOD, or any other person, shotud Uke tlW.OOO
from tbe Treasury for drawback*, ii would be
proper to agree to the motion.
Mr. SwAHWicK said, no gentleman wished more
to preserve the public faith inviolate Ihan he ; but
he was sure that the genllemao who was so zea-
lous for the public faith, as it related to the doing
away of this law altogether, did not pay so much
respect to it, as it related to the manufacturer who
would be injured by Ibis new law. The present
law, he said, was passed in 1795, and was to con-
tinae in force till the year 1801 ; it allowed six
oents per pound drawbtick on exportation. In
eouaeqneoce, a certain manufacturer had tamed
his whole attention lo the ezportalion business,
and had drawn large sums of money from the
Treasury; but now, when he had enhtig^ his
works, relying upon a continuance of the act tilt
the time meotioued, the drawback was proposed
to be reduced from six cents to one cent. There
was arleast instability, if not injustice, in this. In
other countries, he knew, when a change in their
imposts took place, there was always some time
given before the new act look pUce. If senile-
men expected any revenue woulu be raised b^ this
new bill, he believed they would be disappointed.
He believed it was a tax which would neva be
beoeficial. Whatever bill they might pms*. be be-
lieved no revenue would be prodneed, but that tbe
tax would continue to be vexatious.
Gentlemen h^ said that snuff was a fit article
from which to raise a revenue ; but, he believed,
whatever methods were taken to tax it, they would
prove ineffectual, and would only encourage fraud
and vice. Since the esiablishmmt of the tax, il
had been a continued vexation lothe GovemmeiU
and to the people, and the new law had always
been worse than the old one ; and, if the lair bow
proposed were to pass, he doubted not there would,
next session, be occasion again to change it. Boi
the gentleman from South Carolina said, wbf doi
substitute this tax with another, if it was to be
repealed 1 He had always considered of a sabali-.
tute. He bad no doubt there was a modeaf rais-
ing more money than was raised at present by
excire laws, without com plaint; the mode be meant
was by a national lottery, which would be a tax
collected with ease, and was a practice which had
been adopted by all nations. He thought it wuold
be an unexceptionable source of revenue. There
were various other means of raising reveniie, aad
why should they be hobbling along with ibis tax
on snuff, which, in fact, proved a tax upon tbe
Government itself.
Tbe gentleman from South Carolina said, thu
if this House were to repeal this tax, the Pbcm-
OEHT and Senate would not concur. He eoiiM see
no reason for such an assertion as this. He wish-
ed the tax to be repealed ; but, however, if gestle-
men chose to m on with another experiment, he
must submit ; out, in that case, be Doped some
time would be allowed for the change taking
place, as he did not think it should be momentarily
effected.
Mr. W. Lymah hoped the motioo woald pre-
vail to strike out the first section; as he was of
opinion they might lose money by a tax oo sauB^
but be believed they should get none. He always
thought the tax an improper ooe ; and be beJiered
no rcntleman contemplated a tax upon this article
without a drawback, as this would be contrary to
ihe Cunstituiion. If no other consideration would
influence them to do away this lax^ motives of
policy ought to do it. One-lisif, if not tnree-fourtlu
of the snuff consumed throughout the koowa
world was the produce of America. It was tr«e
wisdom, therefore, to endeavor to export it in its
manufactured state, and by that means draw the
moaef which is paid for that process in other
parts into the United Stales. l!' they were to Jet
this manufacture alone, he believed, this would
soon become the ease ; and surely, for a few thou-
sand dollars a year, it was not worth their while
to risk the defeat of so great an object. When he
contemplated the draw^ck to be allowed on the
exportation of this article, it always appeared to
him impossible so (o regulate it as to prevent ii
from beioK eluded. They had had some experi-
ment of ihe unproductiveness of this tax, and
other ronn tries might hold out instructions to us
on the subject. He believed ooartiolc upon whi>h
Ae taxing hand of Great Briutic ivas Iaiit,eIuJ^
;dbvG00gle
1413
mSTORT OF COI^GBESB.
Dutg en anuff.
[H.OPR.
its gnnp more ihaa tiiis Brticle of taatt. It *
from the article. The State from which he came
IumI made atlempta to tu lauffaDd tobacco; aod
whilit the lax tem&iaed, theremanotasesaii '
the Legi^ture pasted without alteration, ti
length they aboliahed iL It waa considered by
their Govemmeat as an eligible ailicle of taxa-
lion, Bod geotlemen were uowilting, as at prsseDt
to relinquish it ; but at length they uw the wis-
dom of doiog so. He trusted that House would
follow their example ; for, he abserred, if ihey
were to adopt ihe slao proposed io the bill before
them, they should oe Bctiog it) the dark, by
knowiug hLiW it would operate, aod they had
bDBJDess to make laws at raDdam.
With respect to repealing the law, he believed
it would be more prtmtable to do thai, than to suf-
fer it to operate as ii now did ; some manufactu-
rers, be believed, would suffer from this, but that
was not a consideration for (bem. The tax was
laid for the purpose of producing rerenue ; if it
failed in this, and the failure did not appear to be
remediable, there mrely could bo no sood reason
assigned wliy they should continue to narass one
part of their citizens for the sole purpose of en-
riching others. As to what had been said about
replacing this tax with another, before it was
abolished, as it confessedly prtiduced nothing,
there was no necessity tor a sobstituce for it. He
ihotighl there weremany objects of Taxation more
ikir and equal than this. Mr. L. was of opinion
with the genilemau from Feonsylvaaia, that lot-
teries was a good way of raisiug revenue.
Mr. BooBHE did not expect a motion would
have been brought forward to repeal this law ; if
it bad been brougbt forward earlier in the session,
some other tax might have been substituted in its
place. Genitemeosay thetax ought to he repeal-
ed, because it would always be un]>roductiie. If,
indeed, they were convinced pr this, it would be
good ground fbr a repeal; but, he asked, if a fair
experiment had been made with ill He said
there had not. Many manufacturers cea.>ed their
business, when the tax was first laid, and it was
changed. The present law had been eqaally in-
jurious to small manufaclurcrs, for waot ot au-
thorizing their mills to be entered for a less time
than H year. Under this sort of experiment it
-was that gentlemen wished the tax to m repealed.
'Vtrby, asked he, cannot revenue be raised in this
country, from this article, as welt as in other
comitrm? Had not this Goremment as much
energy t Was it not equally capable of carrying
K law of ibis sort into efiect f He believed it was,
and thai tbe bill now proposed, would remedy the
^riewtees complainea of.
Pew of the manufacturers, he said, had asked
for a repeal of ihe law. Nona except iq Pennsyt-
rania, nolwiihstatiding they had petiiionn from
Htao^ of the Stales ; all that wa* asked for wai a
naodtfcBtion of the law. Whatever objections
tbere might be te different parts of the bill, tbey
might be obviated in passing through it, if gentle-
mca were not deiettoiaed to do away the tax al-
togethu.
Gentlemen had said, that if the drawback waa
reduced or discontinued, it was a breach of fkith
with certain manufacturers. He thought the ob-
jections were equally strong against a repeal of
the law. The chief^objeotioD* were against the
disproporiiou of Ihe drawback, and not against
the duty itself. He hoped, therefore, the first sec-
tion would not be struck out ; but, that Ihe bill be-
fore the Committee would be candidly gone
through. He believed wilh the gentleman from
South Oarolioa, that to repeal the law, would be
a violation of public faiui, and they could not
consistently do it without substituting another tax
for the one repealed.
When a law was unproductive, tbe proper way
was to modify it and nol repeat it, until due ex-
periment had been had of its bein^ an improper
tax. He did not think the experiment had yet
been fairly tried.
Mr. VanaBLB waa surprised to hear from the
gentleman from South Carolina that tbe United
States were obliged to keep atax in force, though '
ever so unproductive, until it was substituted by
another. As nothing was produced by the tax,
no reasonable objection, on theground of revenue,
could be broughi against its repeal. He objeotea
10 the duty and drawback in tbe bill beforo them
United Stales, as much as if a duty of a dollar
perlnrrel was laid upon flour, and a drawback of
ihreequarlers of adoilar was to be allowed on
exportation. There would then .evidently remain
one quarter of a dollar duty on all flour exported.
The gentleman from South Carolina bad read
an extract from a book which proved tliat whera-
ver such taxes were laid, they were evaded by
the cunning of those whose interest it was to de-
ceive Government. He believed this was true,
and that it would always eontinae to be so. and
therefore the sooner the law wa* repealed tho
better.
Mr. FiKDLET said, the question was rather' an
unusual thing. It was not whether ihey should
makcalaw, but whether they would go into an
experiment. He had no objection to toe experi-
ment's tieiog made, but be believed it woutd
prove like the rest. There were difficulties on
every side. If the drawback was entirely taken
otL, an article in the Constitution was broken;
and if any were allowed, it leeined too much for
some manofactarers. His colleague had given
instaneei in which the tax was ended. Indeed,
he thought the impediments were so great ^a not
Io induce a continuance of the lax.
Mr. Qallatih had not intended to have trou-
bled the Committee again on this subject, had it
not lieen for what had fallen from the gentleman
from Souih Carolina, on the subject of puldic
faith. But he could not see how any faith could
be violated by repealing a tax whtoh produead
nothing, as had lieen shown with respect to the
lax on snuff. But supposing the tax to have been
productive and that from its being repeated there
was a deficiency in the revenue, would it affeot
the interest of the public debt? Certainly not.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORT OF CONGSBBI.
1418
LorB.]
JMy M Am^-
[HiT.lTM.
That mmt be paid ; had if there wm anr deficiea-
07 ia the receipt! of the rerenue it would fell
Bpon the cnrrent ezpeoeef, and Dot npoa the in-
wreat of the public debt. Bat this was not all.
To whfit purpose was the amouat of this appco-
priaied 1 It was to be applied, with four other
tans, to ihe year 1801, to par the interest and
prinnpal d the Algetioe millioD loae. The Se-
erettry of the Treasury had said the ruterest of
thit loan was fully secured ; bni, the taxes were
not prodoctite esouch to reimburse thepiiticipal.
Frdm. this report, a hill had been passed to borrow
five millions for the purpose of paying the bank
this millioD, together with the antic ipatious which
hkd been aoTsnced upoa the rerenue.
The whole aisumeat, therefore, of public faith,
fell to the grooDd. It had nothing to operate upon.
The gentleman from Rhode Isloud [Mr. BovftNG]
had said, that an objection to the drawback was
bM an ot^ection to the bill. It was aa obieetion
to tbe whole fdan. If, said Mr. O. you aliow a
drawback larger than the duty, it was better to
have no law. If the only remedy was either to
aHow DO drawback at all, or to repeal (he law, an
oMection to the first plan was an objection to the
whale system of taxins sDuff.
Mr. Daytoh (the Speaker) intended to have
obwrred some time ago that if a repeal of this
tax or excise Was the object of gentlemen, the
proposed motion could tjot hare the eSect ; be-
catwe if alt the five sections were struck out, the
bill would be complete with the sixth section re-
mainiDg; therefore, the present proceedings were
wholly irregular, the sen^e of the Committee
coald not be taken with respect to a repeal of the
bw, but upon the bill before them, to amend it.
Mr. NicBOLjia believed they had the power of
determiniDg what they woald do in ibis business.
If striking out the first seeiion would not have
the wirited-for effect, they might strike out all the
antioDs one after auother. By atriking out the
first section, he believed the sense of the Com-
mittee would be determined.
The qaestion being pnt for smUDg OM &e first
Mction, it was oarriMi, 40 to 3S.
The Cmnmittee row, rraorted the bill, and ask-
od leave (0 sit again, which was refused, 41 to 32.
Mr. VatiAaLB then laid b resotution on the table,
Ptpotnt a Committee to bring in a bill for rc-
iBg the act imposing m duty on snuff; but the
day fbTtowing it was ^reed that instead of repeal-
iB|[ the act, it should be suspended only till acxt
stemonof CoDgresa,and that the Secretary of the
TwaMry shouGl to fh« mean tioM prepare a plan
?BiDAT, May 30.
The bill cooeeming the post road fhim Port-
hod i* HMoe to SavaBDah m Georgia, was read
a ihi(4 ttnM and paased.
A message was received from the Senate in-
farming the Honse that they had reacdved that the
Mil for the relief of Hoses Myers, should not pass ;
aad that they had passed tke bill altering (be com'
peDSatioD of (he Aeeonatant of the WarDcfart-
ment, with amendments.
The House look np the coasideiation of the
amendments, which were, that iastead oftl.flOD
$1,800 should be the future salary of the Ac-
countant, and ihaljhe should send end receive all
letters by post, free of eipense.
Afler a few lAservations on motion t4 Mr.
Heath, the yeas and nays were taken upon the
first amendment and stood, yeas 19^ nays 50, a*
follows :
Vkis. — Messrs. Theodoras Bailev.BenjsniinBeiinie,
WiUisoi Cooper, Jesse fVsnUin, Bsekiel Gilbert, Wil-
lism B. Oilea, Nicbolu OOnun, Henty Gtea, Thnms
Hartley, Nathsniel Mscon, William Tans Morrsj,
SsioubI BitgreaTis^ Willism Smith, John Swsnirki,
Zephui^ Swift, Absaimn Tatom, George rhstdier,
John £. Van AUaa, and Jefan WiUisBB.
Nirs.— Abraham Baldwin, Thcmw BIodiH, The-
oridlu* Bradbmy, Nathaa Bryaa, Dempaey BniKe^
Oabriel Christie, Joshua Coil, Isaac C^es, Gsorga
Dent, Samaei Esrki, WyHam FiBcHey, Abisl Festw,
DwighlFostisr, AlbertOaUadn.JamesQ"' ' '"
Boger Grkwald, '
Csrter B. HariMOD, Jno. Hathoin, Jonatka H. Ha>«M,
John Heath, Daniel Haister, Thaaus Handenoa, Wil-
liam Hindmsn, James Hellaad, Geoiga Jsc^hb,
Aaron KitcheU, Samne) Lyman, William Lymao, Saoi-
uel Madsj, Francis Mslbons, Andrew Hoon, Fnd-
eiick Augustus Muhleidieig, Anthony New, Joha
Nicholas, JosiBh Puker, John Rsed, John Ktchanb,
Nathaniel Smith, Israel Smith, Richard Spiigc, Jr.,
Thomis Sprigg, Richard Thomas, Uriah Tiacy, Abra-
ham Venable, and Richard Wina.
This amcDdiDcnt being neguired, the other was
put and carried.
Mr. W. Smith, from the Committee of CUim&
reported a bill providiag for the more efiecluaf
collection of certain internal revenues of the
Uaited State^ also, a bill limiting the time allow-
ed for a drawback oA the exportation of dumesiic
distilled spirits, and allowing a drawback <w spirits
exported in vessels of less burden than (tuny
tons by the Mississippi.
These bills were twice read ; the formeT order-
ed to be committed to a Committeeof the Wbote
on Monday, and the latter ordered to be engioaa-
ed fur a third reading 'to-morrtnr.
Mr. Tbitcheb proposed a resolutim to the fol-
lowing effect, intended to fix an earlier period for
the meeting of the next session of Congress.
lUtahed, That a Omnmjttee be appoitaj to le-
biU Ibr allsriag the tinw of the oazt miitiin 4C
portsbiUlb
CongrcM."
This resoltilion waa otcatiTed, 43 to 30.
Mr. Giles called up Uie rssoloiian yeamtoy
laid upoB the table, to appoint a Cam^tue 10
bring la a bill to repeal the daty on anoff, wluek
beioff agreed to be taken ap, he propnsed to auifee
out toe words " onght to be repeaM," sad 10 in-
sert "ought to be suspended until the end ofcthe
next session of CoDgress." He had 00 ottfectiM
to the law being repealed, bvjl he believed ataay
other gentlemeo wished it to ht*e a fmthei ez^
riment, and he had no objection to liave t^mmm-
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M*V| 1700.J
Military EitabliihmeiU.
ia\gei. The moiion waa agrtei to, mad ieferr«d
to a cooifQil'.ee to bring in s, bill.
On moiian of Mr. Tbact, a resolnlion to the
folluwing eSecl was also agreed to :
" Saohtd, Th«t the SMntaty of the Ttewnrj be
direcled to pnpan eod Uy betbra Cong>««i at their
ueit eeMioD, e mode fin coUeeting a tax on uiifi"
Mr. BoCBNE, fTom the Committee of Commerce
and Maaufactutea, reported a bill Tor providing
passports for ship! and vessels of the United Stales,
which was read twice and ordered to be referred
lo a Commiltee of the Whole to-motrow.
Mr. W. Shitb moved a resolution to the fol-
lowing effect :
« Renahed, That a Conunittee te ajipo^ted to bring
in a bill antboriiinK the PaiiiDiflT oi tbi Ukitkd
8tjt» la laj ami regulate embaigoM during ^ "~
cm of CaDgren."
The resolulioD was agreed to, 36 to 29.
Mr. BoDRKB, from the Commiltee of Com-
merce and Manufactures, reported a bill for sus-
peoding the dulf onsDuff, which was twice read
mnd orJered to be engrossed for a third reading to-
morrow.
A message was received from the Senata iq-
furmiog the House that they had receded from
their amendment lo the hill altering the compFn-
sation of the Accountant of the War Department;
and thai they had pnssed the act for a^erlaining
and fixing the Military Esiablishment of the Uni-
ted Staif s. with amendments, aiso an act concern-
ing the Mint; to which they requested the con-
cur rence of that House.
WIDOW OF GEN. GREENE.
Aftera number of observations upon the pro-
prieif of doing so, the House resolved itself mio
a Coroniiltee ol'i.'ie Whole, Mr. Swift in the chair,
on the re|>ori of ihe Commiltee of Claims on the
petition of Catharine Qreene, widow of the late
General Greene. Some very lon^ documents on
this subject were read, and considerable debate
bad oa the merits of the claim ; hut the usual hour
of aiijOurninent being past, and the reading of
other papers bein^ called for, the Commiltee row-
had leave to sit again, and the Hua:je adjourned,
Sato BOAT, May 21.
Mr- New, from ihe commiltee to whom were
referred the amendments of the Senate to the bill
laying a duty on carriages, made a report to agree
to the amendments. These amendments do not
make any material change in the bill. The re-
aod Manufacturex, reported a bill to authorize ibi
PB'SeinBNT to lay, regulate, and revoke embargoes
during the recess of Congress. It was read twice
and ordered to be referred to a Committee of the
Whole on Monday.
The bill 10 suspend part of an act to alter and
amend an act for laying certain duties upon snuff
aitd refined sugar, was read a third time and
paoaed. Also, the bill limiting the time for allow-
4th Co». — 46
ance of drawbacks on the eiporlation of domeatic
distilled spirits, and for allowing a <lrawback uB
such spirits as shall be exported in versels of leal
than 30 tons nurden by the Mississippi.
The bill from tbe Senate respectmg the Hint,
was read twice and referred to the Mint Commit-
The disagreement of the Senate to the amend- ,
m«nt to the bill for the relief of persons impri-
soned for debLWBS read. The amendment pro-
Eosed by the House was to put the laws of the
Toiled States, with referenceto debtors, upon the
same footing with the laws in the State, where
~ ~ y action might be brought. On motion for
committee of conference, to be appointed t(»
insist on the amendments, it was carried, 36
24.
The Committee of the Whole, to whom was
referred the amendments of the Senate to the
hill in addition to an act, entitled an act supple-
mentary to the act, entitled an act to provide more
effectually for the collections of duties on goods.
wares, and merchandise imported into the United
Slates, and on the tonnage of ships or vessels, was
charged, and the hill, with the amendments,
) relerred to the Committee of Commerce
andMaoutHciures.
Mr. W. SuiTB, from the Committee of Ways
nod Means, lo whom was referred the amend-
ments of the Senate to the bill regulating the
compensation of clerks, made a report thereon ;
which was agreed lo, read the third time, and
Mr. MADiaoN, from the commiltee to whom
ras referred the bill from the Seuate respecting
the Mint, reported the bill with an amendment
limiting Us Oration to two years, and from thence
LO the end of the next session of Congress. The
report was ordered to be committed to a Commil-
tee of the Whole to-day. The House, therefore,
resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole,
and agreed to the bill and amendment; the House
then took it BO, and ordered it to be read the third
time on Monday.
MILITABY ESTABLISHMENT.
The amendments of tbe Senate to the bill fix-
ing the Military Establishment were read. They
went to the retaining the whole number of li^hi
dragoons and the Major General, and direotiog
that men should be enlisted for five instead m
three years. The amendment respecting the dra-
goons being under coittideralion —
Mr. B*i.nwiEi informed the Houae that tbe
amount of the antendmeats of tbe Senate waa
this, to'keep up 320 dragoons instead of 53, and Uk
retain tbe Major General. It appeared to him
thai ihe House, having determined upon thesis
subjects already, would be at no loss lo form an
opinioo upon these ameodmeots.
Mr. WiLLiAMB hoped ihai'lhe amendment from
the Senate would not be agreed to. This House
had taken great pains to mature the bill, and he
was of opinion that the number of troops agreed
to was sufficient for a Peace Establishment. No
gentleman had observed to the contrary ; any addi-
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i*ao
MUitaty EttMithmtiU.
[Mat, 1796.
Keal ezpeosM alresdjr accrueo by the laie war,
I be a mean of TeCainiqgiD the Arm]' useful citi-
teni, who would be otherwise etoployed in pur-
saiti of much more beaefit to the Uailed States.
Let vs reflecl oa the appro priati on i made this
•ession, aod compare them with the situation of
our Treasarjr. In the Letter from the Becreurjr
of the Treasury to the Chairmaa of the Commit-
tee of Ways and Means. It is slated that there
will be a deficiency in the course of ihe current
year, to meet the probable necessary appropria-
tions, the sum of one million three hundred and
ten thouisnd six hundred and fire dollars and
thirty cents, which sum must be oblaioed from
loans or Ofw reTenuef. Thus situated, ought we
to keep up an Army which is not wanted-T He
hoped ihey would not. Were (hey wanted, he
would endeavor to provide means for iheir sup-
poTl ; hut. as he conceired thev were not, he did
not see the propriety of ezpeuaine monej^, taken
OD losD, which must be done if nis motion did
not succeed.
Hr. W. Lthar hoped the anteDdment would
be disoert^d to.
Mr. 8. Smith *aid, (he Senate seemed t^ con-
templale these light dragoons, on account of the
officers, who were to do duty on horse or foot, as
necessity required. From ibis idea, be would
■uzgesi the prc^iety of agreeing to the amend-
ment.
Mr. EiTTEBA said, tbe Army would be placed so
widely from each other, that the horse would
prove very useful.
Mr. OiLKB had no i''ea of keeping up tbe horse
for the sake of the officers.
Mr. Gilbert was in favor of retaining the
whole number of horses.
Oo motion of Mr. Willi&us, the yeas and
nays were taken, and the amendmeut was nega-
tived, 58 to 32, as follown:
Tus^--Bcajiiiiim Boame, TlMophilu* Biadbnr;,
Wilkes iatUn,0aan«lXr«Mn, Fnod* Mslbone, Wit-
Kan ' Vans Miuray, Sunuel BilgnaTsa, Nsthtuiel
Smith. Isuc Smilb, Ssmusl Smith, Geotfs Thslcher,
Urish Trary, and Peleg Wadsworth.
Min — Theodorus Boiler, Abrabain BsUwin, David
Sard, Tbomss Blonn*, Richard Brent, Nathan Bi^sn,
DempsCT Bmy, Gabtiel Christie, Thomas CIsiboms,
Imoc OdIoi, Jemniah Ctobb, George Dent, Bsmuel
Baria, WilUau Pindlej, Abi«1 Foster, Jens FnnUin,
Mbeit Oanalin,'WiUi«ii B. Giles, NicbtJos Oilman.
Choistaphtr Oraansp, Andrew Orrgg, William Bany
OnsB, Uade BaBpkm, Oeoige Bt^oA, Robert Oood-
Im JlBtpar.iOaitB B. Harrisan, John Holhom, J«tia-
Ihaa iN. HansoB, John Hioth, Thonaa Hmdenon,
laum Holland, Qaoige iockastt, Aami KiidiaU, Bfot-
< ilmv Locke, WilUan Lyman, Saaaal Moday, Na-
lluniri Madon, Jahn HiUedge, Andivtr Moon, Fred-
•rick A. Muhlenberg, Anthony Hew, John Nicholas,
Joaioh Parksr, John Retd, John Richards, Robert Rn-
thrrfbrd, Jeremiah Smith, Richard Bprigg, jr., Thomas
BfiigS, John Swsnwick, Z^bonUh Swift, Absalom
Talom, Richard Thomas, John B. Von Allen, Philip
Van Cortlandt, Ahnham VonaUs, John Williaai*, and
Richard Wum.
The coDsideratioB oS the propriety arretaining
the Major General was next taken up
Mr. nioHouB could not conceive any oae for
Qeoeialii. He believed if the Setiate bad struck
out ^e Ceneial they s^at then, the amendment
would have been n good one.
Mr. Gii-ES hoped they ehoold not agree to the
amendment. It would be a commencement of
sinecures in the Military Depwiroent. There
would be Generals without men to commniid. Me
believed the bill, as sent from that House, con-
tained its. full proportion of officers.
Mr. 8. Bmitb was in favor of the amendment
He said the expense would be no great things
and the present R^ajor General wotild be very
necessary in taking possession of tbe posts. Per-
haps, at tnis time, it was essential to keep this man
in command, as if he were discharged, it might
create a derangement in our Army which might
be fatal. The command of three thousand men,
it was true, was too trifling for a Major GeoeiaL
But, perhaps, as this General bad been ibe victo-
rious means of procuring us peace with the In-
dians, immediately to discharge faim, would ap-
pear like ingratitude, if not injustice.
Mr. RoTHERFORn concurred in opinion with
the gentleman last up.
Mr. W. LvHAN said, they were not now called
upon to reward the services of Major O^eiml
Wayne, but to provide proper cAcers for their
Army. If the gentleman from Maryland fMr. S.
Shi-tuI were to bring forward a measure of that
kind, thev should know bow to decide upon it
Nor did ne think the argument for making the
office of a Major General, because the posts were
to be received, had much weight. Any oiha
officer would receive them as well as a Major
General.
Mr. GiLEB said, he had no per^nal objection*
to the present commander of oui Arroy ; but he
considered the present proposition such a breach
of principle as he could not agree to. Ji was the
mBiiog of BD office for a man ; as the gentleman
from Maryland seemed to think the taking pod-
session of the posts the principal busioess to be
performed by him. If the services of this gentle-
man was necessary on thai occasion, he wouU
much rather pass a bill to mske him a Commis-
sioner for that purpose. All the argumenlK in
favor of a Majiv General were in favor of tbe
roan, and not of the propriety of the office.
Mr. Murray said, tbe gentleman last up most
know that the g^tleman who had eo soccasfuIlT
commanded our Western Army, was now in the
service of the United States^ yet be would insinu-
ate that there was an intention of creating a new
office. There was no disposition in those who
wished to retain this meritorious man in service
to create cew offices. They were now abont to
make a reffular Military Establishment j hereto-
fore it had rather been a nominal one. There
bad been hitherto a Major General at the head of
our corps, and he thought it would be M«per to
continue tbe command. There appearea to kia
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Military Etttd4M,nenl.
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a gnat deal of danger from the iDstabilitT of theii
pt-oceediiigs, aa insubility ofcea charged upon a
boTernmeal like oura. He would not attribute
ebb to aay other motire than luch as we^e too
apt to enter into large deliberative bodies. Was
it right that when a man had led our armies to
riclory, and reiuraed, that he should be imme-
dialely stripped of hts commission 1 He thought
noL It was said that this was done, because the
Army was reduced j but he believed it was now
as large as when General Wayne obtained his
riclory by it, for it was not then more than three
thousand men ; and yet, because they wished tu
retain tbis man ia the service of the United States,
they were told that they were creating new offi-
ces for which there was no necessity.
Mr. NiDflOLAs said, with respect to the iusta-
bility of their measures, he was ready ta take his
own share of it as well as that of the gentleman
last upj for he never found him vary from —
thought the conduct of gentlemen eztraordinarv.
At one time they were to make our Establisb-
meot as lar^e as possible, and when more favora-
ble circumstances appeared, they were not (o re-
duce iL Where were the benefits of peace^ if
they were still to keep up our wiir establish-
ments 7 Qentlemes tell you that the Army wouM
be as large now as before the reduction, yet the
same gentlemen weie opposed to its being reduced
to the Dumber dow contemplated. This appeared
something like iuconsistency. Mr. N. said, if
they did not seize every favorable opportunity of
lessening the expenses of Qovernment. be believed
their coostiiueois would have gooJ reason to
complain of their want of attention to their duty.
Mr. Macoh said, they ought to legislate on this
Mibject as if there were no Army in existence.
They had do permanent Establishment, as their
mea were discharged at the end of every three
year«> He belierea our present commander was
a very respectable officer, but he could not vote
for a Major OenenI id the Establishment, which
he thought unnecessary, because he thoaght him
a de«erving man.
Mr. BoDRHB believed it was not necessary to
hare any appropriate number of men for a Major
General to command. It had ottea been thought
that a Major Qeneral was necessary. He believed
they bad thought so on foroier occasions. If any
necessity should arii^e for the mititia to be called
out to aid the Army, such an officer would be
highly necessary. He did not think it would be
true economy to reject him.
Mr. Qali^atin said it was oot ^euing to give
a vote which was in some degree of a personal
oatuie like the present. He was iinaequainled
with the geotlpmaa who now held the office of
Major Qeneral in our Army, and, therefore, t
nnoer no personal influence, and his opinion
the Biibject was formed upoa the information of
thoee in whose judgment on military affairs, he
must ueeessarily conSde, as it was a subject he
did oat undersiaad. It was supposed that a Ma-
jor Qeneral was necessary for a War ElstaUish-
ment, but not for a Peace Extablishment. He
drew this cooclusioQ from that grade ceasing with
(he war in 1783, and beiag again introdured in
1791, when the Indian irar had commenced, aod
he understood it was more connected with the
nature of the service than the number of men.
The gentleman from Maryland [Mr. Smith] said
that the nature of the service of iuis Summer, re-
quired the service of Geoeial Wayne; but as the
act they were about to pass would oot lakn place
till the 31st of October, as it was the opiaion of
all gentlemen of military koowled(re, that there
was no necessity for retaining a Majo" General
in our reduced Army E:.tBbTishment after the
posts had been taken possession of, and as the
whole Summer appeared sufficient fur that ser-
vice, he would vole against the amendment.
Mr. Hartley thought it best to have a Major
General. The expense was but small, and in case
of the militia being called out (as was meniiooed
by the gentleman from Rhode Island) a Major
General would be neeessary; besides, to reject
him, would have the appearance of forcing thia
man out of office in an ungenerous manner.
On motion of Mr. Bailet, the yeas and nays
were then taken, and the Senates amendment
was lost, 49 to 31, as follows :
yiAi.^ — Fishei AiBM, BenjamiD BoDme, ThMptuJna
Bradbu);, JocbuK Coit, William Coopat, Dnight Fo^
lei, Ezakiel Gilboit, Henry Glen, Chauncey Goodrich,
Aiidraw Greca, Roger Grnwold, Geoi^e Hancock, Ro-
bert Goodloe Harper, Thomu Hsitlej, William Hind- '
man, John Wilkei Kitten, Bamuel Lyman, Fionda
Malbone, John Millodge, Frederick A. MuhleobMg,
muel Smith, William Smith, John Snawick, OMTga
Thatcher, Bichaid Tbamss, Uriah Tracy, John H.
Van AI1«n, and Psleg Wadsworth.
Niii.— TtHodonu Bailqy, Abraham Baldwin, Lb-
mnel Benton, Thomu Blount, Richard Brant, Nalhaa
Biyan, Dempasy Burgas, Suinel J. Caball, Qabriel
Chrislia, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles, JeKmiak
Cnthb, Oeotge Dent, Samuel Eaile, William Findley,
Abiel Fostm-, JesM Franklin, Albeit Gallatki, William
B. (riles, ChiblophBr Greennp, WUliam B. Grove,
Wade Hampton, Carter B. Harrieon, John Hathonii
Jonathan N. Havens, John Heath, Thomas Henderson,
Jamei Holland, George Jsckson, Aeron Kitchell, Mat-
thew Locke, WilUani Lyman, Samuel Meelay, Na-.
thaniel Macon, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Joaiah Parker, John Rithorttf, Nalhankl
Smith, larael Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., Tbomaa
Spngg, Zephsnieh Swift, Abaalom J^tou, Philip Van
CorU ndt, Alxaban VenaUe, Jolm Williams, and B*>
i^iard Winn-
The amendment proposing that men should be
enlisted for five, instead of three years, came aezt
uadercoosideration,
Mr. Macon hoped they should adhere to theii
usual practice.
Mr. 8. Smith thought, if the mode of enlisting
men for five years, proposed by the Senate, was
superior to that of enlisting them for three, whieh
he thought it was, there was no reason against
adopting it
Mr. GiLBS hoped they should not agree to tht
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fflSTORT OF CONGRESS.
Widmg 4^ General Greene.
amendineDE, as they had fonad no iDcoimnieDce
from itie customar^ pnctice ; betidei tbe gentle-
nwD from Marvlaod [Mr. MdmratJ would be
■(•ill cha^in^ them with instabihl)'.
Mr. Hakfeb hoped the f^n tie man la«t up would
■how hit iDiubJlitr on thii ocrasioD by joininc
lliem ID lappariiDs the preieot RTDeodment. He
believed it would l>e better to enlist men for Btc
years tlian for three i for when ihey were enliiced
for three year* only, very shortly after they had
learnt their trade, they were discharged. He be-
tieved a mat. would enlist for five Fears ■■ soon
as for three, aad therefore it would be a very ad-
vantageous alieraliun in our present system.
Mr. JjiCKBON said, if it h«s in order, he would
move to strike out Jiee and insert three. He was
COa&Jeot better men would he got fur three years
than could be got for five. If men were to be en-
listed for the tatter period, he belieied thejr should
for soldiers only the scum of the couolrjr.
Mid he was well acquainted with the busi<
ness. and he knew that when men were enlisted
for one year only, belter men were got than since
tbey had been enlisted for three years.
Mr. 8. Smitb said, he also liad had »me expe-
rience in the business of enlistlnc men; and he
had no doubt good men would be got for 6re
years as soon as for three. That men out of tbe
Western country should wish to have men en-
listed for a short period, he was not surprised, be-
cause, when therr service was completed, the farm-
ers got them for laborers; hut if men were en-
listed for five yenrt, Iney would g^t lets frequent
drauzhts of useful bands from this part of the
country. For this reason he was in favor of the
s:
Mr. HENDGRaoN ntd, if men could be got on
Ibesame terms for five years as for three, it would
reduce two Gfthii of the iMunty moaejr paid at
prewnt by ibe United Stales.
Ths amendment, to insert three instead of fire,
was negatived. 40 to 31; and then the Senate's
■fflendmcnt was put aud carried.
AMERICAN SEAMEN.
Mr. Suite, from the committee appointed to
confer with a committee from tbe Senate, on tbe
subject of their amendments to the bill for tbe
relief and protection of American seamen, re-
ported that the eommiitee appointed on the part
of that House had receded from their dinagree-
mrat to the amendmenta of ibe Senate, except
in one instance. The report was agreed to. In-
•tead of having eertiticates issued to three dencrtp-
tion* of American citizen*, viz : natives, foreign-
ers who .were in this country in 17SiJ, and those
who have obtained their citizenship since, they
are all to be iucluded under the head of Ameri-
WIDOW OF GEN. GREENE.
Mr. HEiiDEitsoR said, he was very desirous of
obtaining all the information possible before he
wai called upon to give a vote on the claim of the
widow of General tSreene. He was more de-
airooa of this, as he bad received no information
I the s
a ihat
House, t _ _ .
the subject. A letter havins been men-
liooed yesterday to be in the office ot the Seeie-
tary at War. which he understood would throw
light upon the subject, he moved a resdattoa,
calling upon the Secretary of War to furnish Ibe
letter in question.
This motion occasioned some debate, in which
iras naid the letter alludeJ to was a private let-
ter from Mr. Burnett to Oeneral Knot, tbe lite
Secretary of War, and that it was therefore moA
probably not in the War Office. The motion
was agreed to-
MoNoaT, May 23.
The bill respecting the Mint was read a third
t'me and passed.
WIDOW OF OEN. QREENB.
The House went into Committee of the Whole
on the petition of Cjiharine Greene, widow of
the late General Oreeoe, for indemnity agtinit
tbe demands of Harris and Blachford, of Landoo,
certaii'. bond which
had been given to them by General Greene, as
was said on account of the United States. Tbe
following was the report of the Committee of
who have nbtained a judgment againat [be e
the lite Qeneral Green*, for « large anm, in ohim-
qurnn of hia being securi^ to the said Hans uid
Blachford, for the debt of John Banks & Co_ whidi
debt, she stales, was incarnid for. and in hefaalTof the
Unilfid States; and that Oenetsl Greene gave aenritf
tat DO other purpose than (o ferward tbe ialere^ M
tbe public.
" On a ainct inveatigBtian of this daim, At Com-
mittee find, thai in the Fall of 17SS, Gesisal GnwM
was BBthoriled bj the Departmenl of War la abuia
rapplicB et clothing Sat tbe Boutbem Aimj, Ihea aiukr
his eommand; and, not Umg alter, ha conbMMd with
John Banks, a paitaer m the houae of Hontn, Baaka
dt Co., for anch suppUes.
" Id Febmary, 1783, Oeneral Graeae, uuda snihon-
tv of the Buperintendent of Finance, cooCiaetBd with
the aame Jolui Banks, to funiiah such pntviaiaDa a* die
aame Amiy were in want of ; both of which contncti
met the approbation of his employers.
" Both these contracts reqoiied greater funds than
tbs eontraclOTS could cororaand, and die laal, which
was to supply rationt for the Army, was near being de-
feated, becaase tbe creditors — for supptios on lbs iwmer
their means to fa\Gi the laat. In this ntnalian. Gen.
Greene had before him the alternative of laroiDg thv
Army loose npoa the inhsUtants, to plnndei for thdr
addition l« the •eonrity of JtAn Banks & Co., U* at
bond to Harris and Bladiiiird, to secore an ev^doai
psjmeni li>r article* which bad gone U the ass of tks
United Stater in clothing the Army.
" John Banks reeeiTed of the United States tbe
wboleaum of the contract, but diverted the meai^ Eroa
.dbyGoogle
i4i»
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
HSfl
Ua>.I7«6.|
Widow uj Geuerrd Gmru.
Stt pnpcT channol, ud l«A Oenanl OraeDe Uabla to
ftj the turn HCDrgd b; the bond mcntiuned Hboic, toil
tuDlberto Menn. ?lewcnnien ■nil ColleL S*Tik«.<ic
Co. becsDie baiiknipti, anU.sojn after, Bnaha died.
" TliB Comniittee find th&t Cienersl Greeuo, u soon
H be wu tpjaiaed of an; ponble duiger which might
■eerDS to him, took meutirei to procure Kinie wcuritjii
bBt hii Btl«inpts were ineSedaal u to ■ complete '
demnily. It appean he effected Mmifl nymenta, and
'itBioed partld indemnity, but wm left finaUr expoMd
a laigv eUin of tlemn. NewMmen end Collet, and
thi* boDd about which the p
" Against tlia claitD of Newcomen attd Collet. Can-
gnaahave indamnided the eatate of Oaneial Gmne, I7
an act paaaad April I7lh, 1799.
" Tbia act haa aened •■ a precedent to the Conunit-
tae, in decidiog on the preaent petition, ai there are
the auM naaona eiiating for the intaiiueiice of Go-
lemnteDt now aa then ; to which oiaj now be added
the weight of precedenL
" For farther paniculan at to the ineiila of the
claim, the Comnultee aak Ustg to refer the House to a
report of the Secretary ofthe Treasury, made to Cougreai
OB thia subject, the S6tli December, 1701, and which is
Wewith laid befbre tbem. The bond g^Tcn by Gen.
Greene to Harris and Blaehford Ibr J. Banka A Co., la
dated Bth April, 1TB8, fcr the earn of £18,473, 19s. 7d.
South Carolina cnireney. Tbia aum, by a variety of
BOfotiations and payments, haa been conslderabiy re-
dnced ; the Committee have not been able to aaeertain
with precisioa the aom now due, bat suppose it to be
betwaan aleioa and twelve thousand poanda.
"The Commltteeareoropinim thai Uenonl Greene
f»i« thia bond with the eole and hMiontde motire of
•erring, to his Dtowst abili^, the then preeaing intereat
of tbo United States: and that Lbe salvation of the
Southern Amy, and ennceae of oar arme in that part of
the Unioo, in a great measure dMcnded apon this
timely intuiierence of his private ciedit.
" Tbey think the honor and Jnatice of Qovemmeot
is pledged to indemniff the estate of General Greene,
u^ by paiying the aiun due to Hairis and Blachfbrd,
■ava s deserving Eunily from indigence and ruin. Thej
therefbrs report, ibr the cooaideration of the House, the
lUIawing resolution,
" RtaoliMl, That the United Statea ought lo indem-
ni^ tl*o estate of the Ute OborbI Greene, for the aum
due on a bond, given bj the aatd General Greene to
BsTTia and Btachford, boaring date April B, 1783, for
the nun of £18,473, ISe. 7d., South Carolina currefK^,
a> enra^ for John Banks & Co. ; Provided, That it
■hall eippesr, upon due investigation, bj the oSceia of
the Treeaurj, that Ihe said General Greene, in hie lite
tima, or his eiecuton aince hia decease, have not al-
nwdv been indemnified, for the mntente of the aaid
bond: And prvtidtd, That the eaid etecatora ahall
tD^« over to the Comptroller of the Treasury, and his
■ocoaBeoia, for the United StaMe, alt mortgagee, bonds,
lamw Ills, or other coonter securities whatsoever, if
■nch there are, which were obtained by General Greene
in hie lifo-tiBie, liom the aaid Banks dt Co., or either
of them, on account of hie being surety for them
afiiiiieiiii ; to be sned for in the name of the said eiei
Ion, for the oaa of the Uaited Stales : And the officen
of the Treasury are hereby anllMrixed Is liquidate and
•atUci the sum due to the eatate of Ihe eud General
Greene, to indemnify the eame as aibresaid, according
' g of thisrssolutiaiii and
to pay soch som as nwjMfeand daeonthesaid bottd,
?al ,i[ the Treasury ir 0.0 United States, lo the said
^utoti, ID be accounted lor by them, as part of tha
After some debate on this sahject, in the eouna
of which lbe Sfbaier md. in hie place, ■ Letter
he bad received Troni the Secreury of the War
Departiii'>Dt, in cDiwequeDce att resolution naued
UD Satartlay, calling for a letier which had been
written \iy the late Colanel Buraeit to the late
Secrftary uf War, declariDg that no nuch letter
coatd be found in the War OSice ; and Mr. CoiT
poke at CDQ^iderable length against the cUim—
lE length the quesiioD was put and carried in
rarorofihe report, there being 61 members in the
iffirmatire. The Committee then roie, and the
House took up the eunaidpration, when, on motion
of Mr. Blount, who said he bad intended v6
have made some obwrratioos on this subject, but
finding the mnjoriljr m> large in favor of the re-
, he eould not believe what he chould Mf
lid have way effect, the yeas and nays wera
taken aod stood, yeas 56, nays 36, as fullowi:
Tsie^— Fisber Ames, Abraham Baldwin, David
Bard, Lemuel Benton, Beniemin Bourne, Tbeophiliu
Bradbury, Bichud Brent, Dempsey Binges, Thomas
Claiborne, William Cooper, Jeremiah Crmbb, Abiel
Paster, Xhrigbt Foster, Eiekiel Gilbert, William B.
Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Heniy Olen, Chauncey
Goodrich. Christopher Greenup, Robert Goodloe Har-
GT, Caitei B. Harriaon, John Hathom, Jonathan N.
evens, John Heath. Daniel Heister, William Hind-
man, George Jackson, John Wilkea Kitlera, Samuel
Lyman, William Lyman, Prands Malboae, John Mik
ledge, Frederick A. Mnhlenbeig, WiUiam Tau Mnr-
laj, Anthony New, John NichoUe, John Reed, Robert
Rutherford, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Soaith, ^
reel Smith, lasac Smith, Samuel Smith, William Smith,
Richard Sprigg, jr.. John Svanwlck, Zephanioh Swift,
George Th^^rr, Richard Thomas, Mark Tbompaon,
Uriah Tracy, John E, Van Allen, Philip Van Cort-
landt, Abraham Tenable, Peleg Wadsworth, and John
Nits.— Thomas Blount, Nathan Brvan, Samuel J.
Cabell, Gabriel Christie, Joshua Coit, Iaa«e Coles,
George Dent, Samuel Earia, Jesse Franklin, Albrrt Gal-
latin, James Gillespie, Rogni Griinvold, Wm. B. Grove,
Wade Hampton, George Hancock, Thomas HenJenon,
Jamea Hollind. Aaron Kitchell, Matthew Locke, Sam-
uel Maclay. Nsthsntel Macon, Andrew Moore,Nathan*
iel Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Abaalom Tatum, and Rich-
ard Winn.
The reaolution was referred to the Committe*
of Claims, to report a bill.
[The facts, ai slated in the course of debate.
wereasfoUowe:
A little tirde before the evaeaatioD of Charles-
ton by the English, in the ^all of the year 1783, %
a number of meirhanls who had settled there, un-
der British authority, were under the necessity
of ieaving the city. Thus oituated, these mer-
chants were willing to dispose of their goods in
a way that would secure their mor.ey. and ena-
ble them to Uave the country immediaielr. John
Baohs knowing of this, and being, it is said. « man
of a spcculatire dj*(iMitioii, detennined t« anil
.dbyGoogle
i4ftT
HisrORr OP ooiTiGrftfiSB.
f4jtt
r. 1796. J
Mmtarf EitablMfrieTa.
IB.ofR.
hitmeit of (hii offer. He thpttfore went ii
Charlrbion, at a timp yrhva Qeoeral Greene was
If iDg noi far from its walls, and ibere made t
conlracl with Messrs. Harns & Blachford foi
goods to the amount of £50.000. which were deti
Tcred 10 him ander the firm of Manter. Banks, &.
Ca Alter Baoks had madp ibis narchase, he ea-
tered iaio contract with Oenerat Oreene to supply
tlie Army withclothes. Some time after thai
cODtracI had taken place, the Army wait in want
of {irortsions, and ihe supplies were cut off, and
abont to fail, when Banks came forward and made
a contract tosupply the Army with proTisions;
hot the fnnda whicb w^re to enable bim to fulRt
this eoDtraet, were in the goods lie had lately
bouehl, and an interferrnce of his partners and
ereoitora took place. The creditors were afraid
if these ^oods were disposed of for that purpose,
their security would be lessened, snd his partners
were not willing that he should convert their jcinc
property to his own particular benefit — for they,
It seems, were to have noibing to do with the
I)roTision contract. To surmouol these difficul-
ties, t«curtty was required. The rreditors of
Banks would be satisfied, if security was giveq.
Id this state of ihingi;, Geuera! Greene becanle
aecurity for Banks, in his first purchase. Baukt
afterwards received the whole sum of the con-
tract, but diverted the money from it* proper
channel, and left Oeaeral Greene liable to pay
the sum secured by the bond to Harris A. Blach-
ford.
The qnexlion in the Committee was, whethi
'^leraf Greene entered into this security ''
sole view of obtaining provisions fo
with
Army in a time of dlstres.^, or whether he had
some concern or partnership in the transaction.
The following particulars wtre mentioned, to
|lroTe that the aecuritv was given for no other
purpose than that of oolaining food for bis men.
The fim purcba^ of Banks was made in Sep-
tember, 1782; the evacuation of Charleston took
place in December following. Banks's clothing
contract was made a few days previous to the
evacuation ; bis proposal for the provision con-
tract was made aboui the same lime, but not actu-
ally entered inio till the IBlh of February, 1783,
and not completed tilt General Greene's security
was given, on the 8lh of April. On the 7th of
Mav, General Greene got a counter aecurity. It
could not he seen, as was observed, for what pur-
pose General Greene entered into this contract,
if it were not for the relief of his Armv. Had
General Greene been a partner, would ne have
required security of Bants six months after the
contract, when business was going on extremely
well — when Banks was in good credit, and ma-
king money, and when no doubt could be enter-
tained of himi It was insisted he would not;
bat, having no connexion with him, be ifaoughl it
prudent to obtain a counter security.
., On the other hand, various sugeeBtions were
thrown out which liad somewhat of a auspicious
•fpearatice — such as General Greene's forcing
kia tnen to buy olothing, &«., of Banks, at an ex
twUiaKt price, reports in th« Army, • letter laid
to be written by the Isle Colottel Burnett, whe,it
appears, was a partner of Xohn Banks, intimating
that General Greene war a parmer in the concern,
though his name was never mentioned iu ii ; bat
nothmg like proof appeared to the Committee
upon which Co ground any reliance. Indeed, S
Gieiieral Greene had any concern with Bank^ it
seemed to be a matter which could not be proved,
as, in General Greejie's life-time, he broi^fbi an
action against Mr. Ferry, one of the partners with
Banks, which was tried at ChaTleatcm, when e«e
rylhing in Mr. Perry'scnuse depended on prarmg
Qenenil Oteene a partoer ; but he Jsilcd in doing
it, and having failed, it was said to be pretty
strong presumptive evidence that it cmM not m
prOTM ; because Mr. Ferry mii^t have brota^t
a cross bill aminst General Grreene, an4 oblige
him to declare on otith that he was in no way in-
terested in the suit, which he did not think it pro-
Tfae report of the Committee was at lelunh
agreed to, as belore stated, and a bill ordered to
be brought in, which subsequently pasied. By
this decision, between £11,000 and £12JW0Hef
line: will be paid out of the Treasury of the Uni-
teo States to the executori of General Greene.
The yeas and. nays, on the paaaing of tke U^
stood, SS to S4.}
COLLECTION OP' DDTIEa
The committee to whom was referred tbe btB
in addition to an act. ■opplementar^ lo an act,
providins for the eolitction of dunes oa gowb
imported^ together with the amettdmeirta of iht
Senate thereto, reported, that the first amendriien
(intended to prevent mireoncerifion,) abovH K
agreed to, but that the three new sectioni^ nht'
iog to the establishment of districts for tne ed-
leetionof dntieioit goods imported bj^tke rivet
Mississippi and the Northern boundary of the
United States, should be disamed to, ami recoof
mended that the Secretary oflhe TretsnryabotfM
be authorized td report a plan for the c^tMSB-
raenl of districts for the collection of chffn on
goods so imported by way of the HisMriwpi, nd
on the Northern bonudary of the Unite* Bla««.
The rvperl was twice read, the HoOm took to af^
and agreed to it.
MILITASV ESTABUSBMENT.&c
A message was received from Ibe Senate in-
forming the House that they had disagreed to tbt
amen ments which they had made to the bill lor
compensation of clerks, and insisted on tbeir own
amendment.
AUo, tbat they insisted on their nnendB«Ma t«
the bill provi iog for the Military BstafalialtMeaEt
of^he UDiled States.
motion, the Trcdoaidcfatian of ibe aaaiA-
Ele did net think that the dffferebce W-
tweeb the two Houms mneieflt n> risk tke hMs oT
the bin. If it were l6st, the oM Bstsbnttholnit
WouM tvinain in force, and that contained iSt
aofcrtttice of ib« fienMeVamendiiieilt.
;dbvG00gle
Ui4
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
]'43d
Hat, 1766.]
MiUtaty EttablUhmmt—DebU ef fAe Vrattd State*.
[H.orR.
Mr. Bailbt hoped th« yeas and Days woold be
taken do ibe first amendmeDt
Mr. Nicholas did not beljere with the gentle-
man from Sjutb Carolina, [Mr. W. SmitbJ that
ir tbe present bill vas lost, they should be undei
the necessity of recuraiD^ to the old Establish-
ment. He Knew it ires in the power of either
branch of the Garemroent to bring down the
Military Establishment to what they pleased. On
tbisground, he should be for making the EEta-
blishoient special.
Mr. Harrison was of the same opinion, and
was determined to adhere to it.
The question was then lakeli by yeas and nays,
on receding from their proposition of retaining
only two troops of caralry, and negatived, 51 to
25.
Mr. Giles then moved to insist upon their disa-
greement to the Senate's ameDdment, which was
Mr. W. Smith hoped the Hoase woald recede
from their proposition of leaving out the Major
Qeneral. He reminded the genireman from Vir-
ginia [Mr. Nicholab] that,T)y withholding the
appropriations for the Army, as the gentleman
auggested, they would bring themselves into a
disagreeable situation. To pass such a law as
would not be agreed to in the Senate, and to re-
fuse, rather than have the old Bsiabli^hmeni, to
appropriate altogether, would cause (he Army tu
be di.snanded. He hoped, therefore, they would
not, by adhering, bring themselves into such a dis-
agreeable dilemma.
Mr. W. Lyman said, if they were driven into
the situation mentioned by the gentleman last up,
it would be the Senate who forced them into it.
A judicial arrangement had been settled in that
House, approved by every professional man, and
he trusted they should adhere to it; and if the
Senate did not choose to acqoiesce, they might
abide the conseciuence.
Mr. Gallatin looked upon the question, whe-
ther they should have a Major General or a Briga-
dier General, as unimportant in itself; but, ne
thought, the ground upon which the gentle-
man from South . Carolina supported the pro-
raiety of agreeing 10 the amendment of the
Benste was somewhat new, and would have
no weight with him on the occasion. The
Constitution said that every two years the
approorialions for the Army should cease. If.
therefore, any disagreement between the Senate
and that House were to end without a law, it
would rest upon those who disagreed, because a
less sum was appropriated than they wished to
take the consetjuence of. We have a right, said
he, to appropriate what we please ; and if the Se-
nate say — you must appronriate so much— we
could refuse to do it. He did not think it was
parliamentary to say what the Senate Wonld do
Upon any occasion. To say the Senate would not
do this, or thai, was, in his opinioD, a threat which
might have been s^ted. [Mr. Smitb denied his
having said so.] He had no doubt but the Senate
woulddo their duly^ and if ihey could not obtain
u luge an appropnatioD. and as U^ an Army
as they wished, they would agree to noch a leaser
one as we might consent to, as they had rather
have 3,000 men than none.
Mr. Giles said, he ihouzht diSerentty from the
gentleman last up. He objected to the amend-
ment because it created a sinecore office for M'
particular person. It was pot contended that the
troops intended to be kept Up required a Major
General to command thtm. but that a Major
General might be wanted for oiher purposes.
When this service was to be performed, he' said,
a person might be appointed to do it; but, be-
cause there was a pariicutar person fitted for the'
business, gentlemen seemed determined to creatti'
him an office. This would be establishing a mosT
ruinous principle, vii: that offices mighi be crea-
ted for persona, without necessity ; and he hoped'
that the House would not suffer any circumstan-
ces of a temporary nature to infiueuce them to'
adopt such a principle.
It had been said, the other dny, that there war
no weiahi in the argument that they were ma-
king offices for men, but He believed it was so. It
was contemplated by the Consiitaiioti, that every
two years the Army should cease. They were
DOW upon a Peace Establishment — the last was a
War Establishment; and if a Major General was
not necessary, he hoped they should not agree to'
have one. There was nothing in which public
liodies had erred more than in departing from ge-
neral princinles.
With respect to appropriations, he had no'
donbt hut they had the power to appropriate'
what they thought necessary for the Army, and'
no more. If the Senate wished to have a larger
Army, they could not oblige them to appropriate'
for ii.
Mr. Cooper spoke of the importance of huving
an officer at the head of their Army attached' to
tbe Constitution of our country.
Mr. Williams said, wh 'u the bill was Bnt
brought forward, this matter was fully discuSKcd.
A number of military gentlemen gave it as their
opinion that a Major GKueral wa:< not necessary ;'
their opinion was convincing to him, and he could
not agree to hare a Major General, when a Bri-
gadier General was sufficient.
The question for receding from this proposition
of the House, and agreeing to that ot the Senate.
as taken by yeas and nays, and negatived, 37
It was then agreed to insist and a committee of
conference was appointed. Subsequently the Se-
nate receded from their lirst amendment respect-
ing the cavalry, and the House agreed lo retain
the Major General, on condition that ihe act con-
tinned in force only till the 4tb of March next.
DEBTS OP THB UNITED STATES.
On motion of Mr. W. Smith, the House resolv-
id itself into a Committee of ihe Whole on the
amendments of the Senate to the bill providing
for the payment of certain debts of the United
States^ which instead of selling the whole of the
five mr1lionof»tock to be created at six per ce; t. at
^r, aatboiizea the Commisdonera to aelt it tot
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
rR.]
Dtbf of the UniUd Sialu.
[Mav, 1796.
what it will bring in the mirket, aat. 3\ko to aell
the two million of Bank itock belongiuK to the
United States, if more adrantageom to the Go-
vern meat.
Mr. S. hoped they would disagree to this
■mendmeot. It embraced two ideas. The bill,
U sent from that Houk, he said, proviJed that the
Commissioneta of the Sinking FuDd should not
■ell any part of the stock created under par. li
was thought at the time the meanures was intro-
duced, uat it would hare been saleable at par, and
if the business had been brousbt to a conclusion
earlier in the session '" - ■--
of upon those terms:,
afBson, and other circumstances, it could not now
Srohably be disposed of at that price. The Bank
ndins this to be the case, had written a letter to
that effect to the Secretary of the Treasury, which
had been sent to the Senate, and from the Senate
to this House, and lay now on their table. The
Senate, in consequence, by the amcndmeni under
consideration, authorized the Commissioners of
the Sinking Fund to oell any pan of the stock to
he created, under par, so that the whole fire mil'
lions might be so sold, and al^o to sell the two mil-
lions of Bank stock held by the United States, if
it should be found to be'mor^ advantageous to the
United States to do so.
He objected, he said, to that part of the amend-
ment in particular, which gave the Commission-
en tbe power of selling the Bank stock, because
there were two lawn in force which expressly hy-
pothecated to the Bank and to the public credi-
tors the dividends arising thereon j and he ob-
jected to the other part, because it gave the Com-
missioners power to sell the whok fire millions
under par, which might prore injurious to the
public credit. He should have no objection, he
■aid, to allow them to sell apart, two millions, for
instauce, under par, if it should be found abso-
lutely necessary. [Mr. 8. read the two acts which
mortgaged tbe Baok stock.]
By the^e laws, he said, it appeared, as erident
fts words could make it, that the public fail^ was
pledged that the Bank stock should remain as a
security and pledge for these purposes. It might,
indeed, be a question, if other tunds of adequate
value were to be substituted, whether this fund
might not be taken away ; but that point was not
necessary to be settled at present, bwause the Se-
nate did not propose to replace it with any other
fund- So much in respect lo the national faith ;
but even if that was not pledged, it was still an
impolitic thing to give the Commissioners of the
Sinking Funa the puwer to sell the Bank slock,
erable sum, and he doubicd
ter increase. Bank stock at present, as well as all
others, wasrery low; it did not sell for more than
27 per ceLt. premium. To sell this stock,
this price, would be a greater loss than to sell ibe
■ii per cenL stock at eighteen shillings. Ti
bringany quantity of this stock into market wouli
tisoliave the certain effect of reducing t'.e price
considerably. As « mere question of interest,
therefore, it was bad policy toKll the Bank stock;
but he did not rest bis oppotitiou uptn this, be-
cause he thought the other ground sufficiently
strone, and that to pass the bill as it came from
tbe Sejiate would be a direct violation of the pub-
lic faith.
Mr. Gallatin called for a division of the ques-
tion. He should disasiree lo that part which an-
rhorized the selling ortbe six per cent, stock un-
der par, as there was no worse financial re^nla-
lion than that of suffering irredeemable Gorem-
ment stock at legal interest to be sold below par.
He said ibey ought not to bind themselres to pay
an additional interest fur twenty-three years. No
doubt, since the money was wanted, and most be
had, it must be got on the best terms they were
able to get it, hut if it could not he obtained ex-
cept by paying more than sis per cent., the sIo<A
created ought to be redeemable at pleasure; be-
cause the present scarcity of money could not be
supposed lo last long, and it would be proper (o
have it in their power to avail themselres (H any
fall of interest which might in the mean time take
place. He should, therefore, more for a divi-
sion of the amendment, in order that -the sense
of the House might he taken on the parts sepa-
rately.
Mr. Harper hoped the question would be divi-
ded, and that they should disagree to that part of
the Senate's amendment, directing that the six
per cent, stock might be sold under par, as he bad
always understood that tbe stock, wing made ir-
redeemable for twenty-three years, would at least
cause it lu sell at par. If it would not do that, he
thought it would do belter to have the slock re-
deemable at pleasure.
Mr. SwAKwicK said, that this was one of tbe
most extraordinary auesttoDs which ever came
before that House. Nor could it fail lo asioLi&h
their consliluenis, when they heard and under-
stood that the finances of the United States, which
had always been represented as in the moft flou-
rishing circumstances, were iu such a state as to
oblige them to borrow monev at a bigger interest
than six percent.,Bnd that whilst they were boast-
ing of their prosperity and the flourishioi slate of
the Union, a motion was made to strike ooi a
clause in a bill which prohibited tbe filing of
six per cent, stock bt a less price than par. Mr.
S. said, they had been fnssing a number of bills
this session, all empowering the borrowing of mo-
ney at six per cent., yet they were now about to
auiborize the Commissioners of the Sinking
Fund to sell Government six per cent, slock un-
der par, and for any price they could get. We
mignt tell our constituents, said he, that we were
e lying six per cent, iatetest, while la fact we may
e paying twenty per cent. Was there ever so
ruinous a system proposed to any enlightened
country? Whether the slock was redeemable or
irredeemable, made no difference an to the princi-
ple. He, however, should never consent that a
stock irredeemable for Iwenly-ihree years, and
bearing sis per cent interest, should l>e suld un-
der par. What was the difference betwixt selling
six per cent, stock under par, and paying a bigber
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
U«T, 17M.1
Debit of Ihe VniUd Statu.
LH.orR.
intemt lii«n aix per cent, for moneif ? There was
reaJly DO difference. Sbtll we. Mid he, deceire
ourselfes hy a financial •yNtera that would ruin
aof cDuntrjrl It aslonulied him how il could en'
ter into the mind of any man. He asked what
would be the alarm of the erediion uf the puhlir.
when ihry heard that tix per ccnl. Htock wbh x.a
be created by the Governnir'nt and »uld uuder
pari la England, whoae example, he »aid, tney
seemed to be too closely roliowing in many things,
when money was wanted tbey did not create a
stock, and aDtbomE it to be sold under par, but v-
sorled lo a public competiiion I'or the loan, and
propowb were rfceired from any moneyed men
who choae to come forward. And, even in the
preaent year, Mr. Pilt had borrowed money at
four and a half per cent., whilst the United Stales
were about to pay nearly double, tboush tbai na-
lioo was at war, and this in a state of profound
Sace. If, instead of creating a stock, and author-
ing it lo be sold in the way proposed, a foir
competition had been opened for the loan, every
iodiridual would have had an equal chance, and
monejr would have been got on the best terms.
Individuals would speculate upon the probability
of a continuance of peace, and merchsnis wonid
make propositions upon what lerms they would
take )L Though tbe Bank wanted money, he
supposed they would not insist upon being paid
down at once, and selling the stock on credit, pay-
able by instalments, tbey migbl kII it at least at
par. But what would be the operation of the
Dill withauf the provision to prevent stock be-
ing sold under par? Why, the Bank or individu-
als mi^ht conliine to take the whole stock to
themselves at any rate they could get the Com-
mixiiioners of the Sinking Fund to agree to. He
hoped the Committee would never agree lo such
a proposition.
Mr. 8. wished the ensuing Congress would
come together with other views than those of mo-
ney-borrowing. Almost all their acts this ses.sion
had ended with a clause for borrowing money. If
Iheir present embarrassment produced that effect,
it would be a salutary one. He did not know how
the Committee of Ways and Means had conduct-
ed their operations, but when he saw these things
he wax astonished. Wheu this measure was first
brought forwarri, the Chairman of the Commit-
tee of Ways and Means said ihe Bank would take
the stock at par, and that if any thins more was
got for it, it was to go to the credit or ihe United
Slates ; but now tbe M>ale was turned, and noth-
ing but a wle even below par was contemplated.
The selling of this stock in Ihe manner propns-
ed. bad, to him, an alarming appearance, and he
believed, when known in Europe, it would be
scarcely credited. He thouKht it would give a
shock to public credit ; for if tbey were to create
atock for five millions of dollars, and sell il at any
price il would fetch, tbey might at any lime coin
stock, and sell it at their pleasure, and throw such
quantities into the market as to make a mere pa-
per currency of the business, liable to depreciate
lo an incalenlable eitent.
Upon the whole, be was glad the qnestioit was
divided, to as to enable gentlemen to rote sepa-
rately on the merits of each parL
He would make a few observations respecting
Bank stock. What a singular appearance! To
own one-finh part of tbe capital of the Bank of
Ibe United Stales without bein^ able Vi pay oni
debts 10 tbera, CTtie Chairman reminaed Mr.
S. tnat he was not in order, informing nini ihnt
the Bank^tock wa^ not then under consideration.J
Mr. S. said, he should then reserve his observa-
tions on that head until that part of the subject
came before tbem.
Mr< 8- concluded his observations by aayiog
that he thought the Bank ought not to require
payment in a moment j tbey could not, in theii
dealings with merchants, say so to them by re-
quiring the whole commercial body in a moment
to extinguish their engagements, nor ought they
to the p;:blic. This six per cent, stock could be
sold at par, he was pretty sure, by giving a little
lime; the Bank ought to consent to give this.
They had been accustomed to borrow money in
Europe, hut now they were to borrow it in the
United Slates. He thought Ibe business might
yet be done iu London, and it was somewhat uiH
fortunate that it had not been determined am
sooner. But as there was at present an appear-
ance of peace in Europe, the stock would certain-
ly increase in value, if that event should take
place.
Mr. NtcaoLAs said, he did not wish to lake np
much time of the Committee. At present, the
law made fhe Dfibi redeemable till the year 1619.
The amendment proposed to strike out the provi-
sion which was to prevent the slock being sold
under par. It was extraordinary that ihey should
sell this stock under par, though it bore an interest
of six percent.
Mr. N. went into a calculation to prove how
much the United States wo-ild lose by the depre-
ciation of the stock, suppOKing it lo sell at different
prices, and said they had better pay ten per cent.,
and have the Debt redeemable at pleasure, than
dispose of it in the way proposed, as in two or three
jfears tbe debts might perhaps be paid off. He was
lor striking out the clause which proposed to sell
tbe six per cent, stock under par, as to sell it in
that way would be procurins; mone^ in the dear-
est possible mode. It was their business, he said,
to get money on the best terms. Il was his opin-
ion the Baok should be paid off, and at the preaent
lime; nor did he lament much ihe embarrassment
into which they were driven to pay their debts.
He thought they stood in need ol some warning
of thiK sort, in order to check their hand in bot-
rowmg ; and it was only by such experiments that
they should be persiaded that il was necessary to
meet all their expenses by Godinff proper resources.
Situated as tbey were, he should iKink it best lo
sell the Baok stuck first, as likely to go at tbe best
price. By doing this, no [lublic engagement would
be broken, as baa been insinuated by ine gentleman
from S)Utb Carolina, [Mr. W. SuiTH.l If the
sale of the Bank stock was not sufficient, "he should
consent that the CommiMioners of the Sinking
Fund should sell as much of the six pet cent stock
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HBTOirr OF CONGRESS.
I4M
H. OP R.J
Debti of the Unittd Sthta.
[MtT, I7M
■s would satisfy the Bank, at the best price tb«y
eouM get.
Mr. 8. Smith taid, he felt for the pecniiarity of
(heir ititUBtioa. H would not say thai be was pre-
pared to go into the subject at present. How was
the Debt, be asked, accumulated 7 tt was firht by
•DticipatioDS, OD account of the credit given to
merchants of four, six, ome, and twelve months,
which the Treasury could not wait for. Oovern-
meut was then obliged to borrow from those who
would lend the iDouey. The Bank of tbe United
StaleE lent GbvcTDment rhe money in anticipa-
tions of the revenue; and the revenue, but for un-
foreseen circumstances, would have been equal to
the expenses of Gorernmeol ; but the Western
insurrection bad cost the United States 1,200,000
dollars, and there was the Peace with Atgi irs. of
1,000,000 dollars. This money was also borrowed
brihe Bank. It could not have been borrowed in
Europe. Would the Bank of Pennsylvania hnve
lent Hi Would the Bank be hud assisted the
establishment of at Baltimore havel'ntir? He
believed not. There was also an instalment ol'tbe
Dutch DebL These tteveral nums were intended
to be met by a new Loan; but the revolucion
which bad taken place in Holland prevented a
new Loan from being negotiated in Gurnpe. What
then was to be done? The Bank of tbe United
States stood pledged for 6^200,000 dollars for Go-
vernment. Should we, said he, keep this money
from them? He hoped not. He thought tbe
Bank bad been of great utility to Oovemment, and
it ODghl not to be abused. He did not wish to du
anything to injure the Bank ; for if it was injured,
Others would teel the bjury also.
The Bank, he said, had placed themselves i
siMh a situation as it was unwise in them to do.
Will you then not assist them, because you must
pay eight per cent for money 1 Qovernmeniowed
the Bank tbe money, and they had desired pay-
ment. Could we then, said he, or could any mer-
chant' of credit who bad a oote due, »ay to the
Bank, We cannot pay you at prerent, because we
must pay eight or ten per cent, for money 7 If a
merchant were to put off payment on surh sround,
be would immediately lose his credit, aniTget no
more diacounts at tbe Bank. Ho«-. said Mr. 8.,
could it be expect^ to borrow money al eijiht per
cent., when two or three per c»nii per month was
Mid for discounlinia: thelKst bonds of merchants 7
Yet we say we wifl not pay eight per cent.
Mr. B. said, he thought proper to make these
observations, though he was not for the amend-
ment of tbe Senate, nor could he agree with the
fntleman from Penasylvania, [Mr. Swanwick.]
hat gentleman thought to lell stock under par
wotild greatly alarm our creditors. He could see
no ground for alarm to them at all in this busi-
nesa; but be thought tbe gentleman's doctrine
Was calculated to injure the Bank. It went to
this: It is true we owe yon money, but we will
sell nothing at a low to pay you. You may put
SDUrselves to what inconveniences you please,
at we can suffbr none. He did not tfaiok this
nght, ibough he ditl not approve of the amend-
meat of the BeBauu
Mr. SwANWiCK said, 'be gentleman htit uphad
spoken as if he bad felt less desire to pay the Bank
of the United States— less anxions to discharge
our public engagements — less anxious to do jBc-
tice — than that gentleman. He wished to know
bow lie could imjiutesncb sentiments to him from
what he had said. The argument was aimplr
whether they should strike out the clause which
confined the stock from beine sold under par.
! was nothing like a rerusal to pay: tbeqav
ion was, which was tbe best way of paying?
^here were some of the geotleman'n
<,for the sake of public inibrmation, he thought
it necessary to notice. How conld it b« expected,
said he, that Qovernment could borrow money at
eight per cent, when merchants paid two or three
P'-r cent, per nionlb (or discounliog good bands or
notes? Did not that gentlemaii know the ditTer-
ence betwixt ppblic stock bearing an interest irf"
NIX per cent. and merchants' bonds or notes? Tbe
actual market price of the two would show rbai
difference. There was always mooe^ in the
market to boy stocks, when there was freqaeiitly
little or none to iliM:ount bood.s or notcb. Stock
was purchased to remit to Europe on sprcnlation.
The dry goods we import are odea faid fur in this
way.
The gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. W.
Shtth] had said the slock would have been di»-
posed of at par, had it been brought forward ear-
lier in the session— that dry-good merchants wonii
have bought in for remittances. He doubted not
the Bank might now, by giving a credit of two,
four, and six months, sell the stock for ten per
cent, profit, above what it gave for it,if purchaUd
under par. But if the United Siatei were to go
on borrowing from lime to time, and then sell
their stock at any rate to jny the Bank, individosb
might make 10 or 20 per cent, profit upon sack
loans, whicb would open a fine trade for tbeiii,btit
a very rumous one lor the public. They wonld
have nothing to do but to lend Government again,
and at a proper time come forward and denttad
the money. New emissions of stock must then be
made and sold in the usual way, and GoTeinment'
revolve is this coniinoal circle.
When the gentleman from Maryland pit. 8.
Smith] staled the causes of the Debt, be was
correct. They oAly differed in this: Instead of
burrowing, he wa.s in favor of laying taxes imme-
diately after a debi was incurred to pay it. For,
said he, what will be the consequence of the pre-
sent practice? They were told the Bank wai
pledged foi 6 300,(100 dollars for the United States,
and It might gu on to 20,000,000. When you pay
these 5,0(KI.O0O, you du not exiingoish any pan at
the Debt. " No, yoU will probably increase it
1,000,000. Instead of bi-ing sold for 17*. 6(li\it1te
pound, as had been supnosed. it might aell for 20
per cent, below par. Where was tnis market to
be made? Why, the Bank ot iodividuals might
lakf the whole in one line, either directly or iodi-
rectly. One of the worst cbargiv brought aninst
Mr. Pitt, was. that he bad made a private Lioaa
without inviting public competition. He vrtMM
ask if this si^ per cent, was to be offered for nie
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uiii
ais^ftt of coNGifiess.
u»i
DthtM of the UhiUd atta».
[H.<
at public Mcliont If they were, ever? man who
bad moaey might became a bidder at the rerdue ;
or.irtbe Bank would give a small latitude of time
in the peymeDt, it would make an immeniiedifi'-ir-
The geoilemHO from Maryland said, the Bank
did only the rame wiih Oovernmeitt that it did
with fberchants when their notes were due. But
did noi that gentleman know how one note was
replaced, by aootherl The Bank thua accommo'
dale the merchaata ; but to GuTernm>'Dt they aay,
Pay na the dtiht, at wbaierer loss you do it, imme-
diaiFJy. They have bcTer i^id ko to the whole
body of merchants collectlrely. which alone could
resemble the C8!>e in point. And while so much
was said about the serrice which the Bank had
done to the Utiiled Slates, had the GoTernment
' done nothing for the Badk ? Wan the act of char-
ter of noHprvice toil? Were not fortunes made
by it 7 Did they derive no advaniage from the
depoaiteH made, and from the circulation givpn to
their paper, by the Oovernmeat? Did the Bank
lend the money fur the Al^erine peace in cash,
or wan it not in stocky by which the public lost ten
Er cent, on the capital? Sjch repeated losses,
said, would be like the constant dropping of
water upon a stone — would wear it out at last-
He was sorry to d ffer in opinion with the ^n-
tleman from Maryland, but they never differed
more than upon the present question, when the
Kntleman sujiposed public ciedti wonld not suffer
this operation. He would ask the gentleman
if he had bought stock la.-!t night at 17f.6(I.in the
pound, and Ave millions of new stock was unex-
pectedly to he created tivday, and sold, whether
It would not alarm him, as liKely to dimintih the
current value?
Where, he asked, besides, were the new funds
for public creditors to rely on? The Debt was
increasing on all sides, but the revenue sioof} still.
He was neither for giving a law to the Bank, nor
for receiving one from il. He was for nayitig
them, btii in such a mode as was calculated to do
it with sufficient promptness, and without «d great
I0S.S to the public.
Mr. Ki'rTERA UtiA they were all agreed, and
therefnre he could see no gronnd for debate.
Mr. Qti,LATiif said, that though they seemed to
6e agreed in iheir di.sagreement to the amendment
of the S.'nate, they appeared to have different ends
in view. Thev owed the Bank of the United
Slates a sum or money, which they had expected
the stock agreed to be created would discbarge ;
but they were now informed it would not pay the
whole, as the stock would not sel! at par. The
Senate, therefore, proposed that the kiock should
be sold for the best price which could be ijot for it.
The gentleman from Maryland {Mr. S. BhithI
agreed that the Debt muit he pjiJ. yet disagreed
with the S<nate, and seemed to suppose that the
Bank would be contented to receive two-and-a-
half millions at present.
Mr. Q. said, he nad all along wished to pay the
Bank, if they demandfd juyment ; and, in order
to know to a certainty, (fur they had then no offi-
cial paper before them,) be had brought forward
a resolution to make an inquiry of the Bank whe-
ther they required payment of the whole five mil-
lions. In answer to which inquiry, the Directora
had declared thev must be paid, and had requested
that the whole Debt might he extinguished. It
must be observed, however that, in fact, it was not
to pay the Debt of the Bank that they wanted
money, but to pay the expenses of Government ;
for the probable receipts of the present year were
■Jiii, It nua pjv^wu Luui Lue i.'ommiBMUuem 01 lae
Sinking Fund should borrow money to discharge
that De t, so as to relieve the current revenues,
that they might be applied to pay the current ex-
penses of Government. And, however painful it
was to give more than six per cent, for monej,
they must do it, if it could not be got for lea*, id
order to satisfy the demands of their creditor.
Mr. CT, then asked for the reading of the lettei
from the Bank. It was read.
A t this point, the Committee roae,Bod had leave
Mr. Tbact, from the Committee of Claima^
reported a bill to indemnify the estate of tbe late
Major General QreeDe for a certain bond given in
the late war; which was twice read and ordered
to be committed to a Committee of the Wh<j«
to-morrow. Adjourned.
Tmanftr, May 34.
Mr. Nicholas, from the committee appointed
to confer with a committee of tbe Senate on tl|«
Hubject of their amendments to the bill from tbe
Senate for the relief of persona imprisoned foi
debt, reported that it was the opinion of ttie joini
committee that tbe House d" Representaiivas
sboald recede from (heir amendments^ and ih^
the hill should pass with certain other ameadp
A message was leceived from the Senate in*
forming tbe House that they bad receded fromlheii
amendments to the hill respecting the e: *
tbe bill for ibe relief and protection of AmeriesB
seamen ; and that they had resolved that the bill
authorizing the Pbesident to cau-se to be surveyed
tbe post road from Portland in Maine, to Satan-
nab in Georgia, do not pass. The Senate innet
on their disagreement to the amendment of tbia
House to the bill sent from the Senate, entitled
'' An act to regulate tbe compensation of clerk^"
and to which this House has iiuisted. Tbe Senate
also agree to tbe conference desired by this House
on the subject-matter ol the amendments depend-
ing between the two Houses to the hill, entitled
'An act to ascertain and fix the Military Estab*
lisbment of tbe United States." and have appowled
managers at the same on their part.
DE:BTS op THE UNITED 6TATBB.
The order of tbe day was then entered vim
on the bill providing for ceitiin debts of lb*
United Sutes, and the Hoihc formed iUetf iM*
a Committee of the Whole on the btuiDea^
Hr. W. Smith proposed to strike out iJie 8e^
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
lj.orR.|
UebU t^ the Uttiltd Stale:
fMnr. 179B.
nate'iiBinpDdmFnt, authoriziDg ibe Commi^ioners
of the Sinkiog Fund to sell the Bank stock and
lo introduce the sale of six per cent, slock under
par to twomillioD*.
This ainendm«Tit was objected to ax not in or-
der, and a pretty long debute took place, cbiefly
on a point of order, vbich was at length necidetl
1^ the Hpeaker, in his place, jtoinling out a modf
of procedure, which would fjire an opportunity
for the sense of the Curamittee to be rairly taken,
which was by nlr iking out certain words, so as to
admit of any words oeing added which might be
Mr. Oai.latin said^ the araendment proposed
by the Senate authorized the Com mini oners ol
the SinkiDg Fund to sell the Bank stock helong-
ing to the HJniled States. He had do objection
to giro this power to the CummistioDers of the
Sinking Fund, nor did he think it would be at-
tended with any riolation of public faith. There
were two laws which the gentleman from South
Carolina [Mr. W. Smrm] had supposed would
be Tiotated— the first of these was the axt which
bad appropriated the moneys receired fur divi-
dend on the Bank stock, the property of the Unit-
ed States, to the payment of interest on certain
lo«ns obtained from the Bank. To remove any
objection on that head It would be sufficient tu
make a new appropriation, to wit: of the funds
relieved by the payment of that debt (which it
was p^opo^ed to discharge with the proceeds of a
•ale of the Bank shares) to the payment of the
interest of the loans alluded to, and he meant to
move BD amendment to that purpose. Indeed, it
mu»t strike every memberof the CommiUee that,
as they were creating no new debt, there could
be no increase of interest. But another objection
was made, *iz: that, by the act establishing the
Sinking Fund, they had pledged not only the
amount of certain funds, but they had also pledged
the funds themselves in such a manner as not to
bave ■ power to cfaanire those funds and substitute
others lo their place. In order to show wbere
ibis doctrine would lead, he observed thol not only
Oink dividends, but the proceeds of the impost
and excise duties were made, by that act. compo-
nent parts of the Sinking Fund. If, said he, we
eannot substitute another fund of equal amount
to the difideads of Bank stock, neither can we
■dbslitute other funds instead of the revenue ac-
cruing from impost and excise, and, therefore, we
cannot repeal, modify, or alter ib the least any of
the existinj^ duties on imported merchandise or
distilled spirit*. It goes to say these duties are
oat of opr power, so that we can neither dimin-
ish Dor increase t.iero ; and the moment any al-
teration should he proposed in any of those acts,
the gentleman from South Carolina wonld say,
"This is a violation of public faith, for these
duties are pledged to certain purpuses." He be-
lievtd no member of that House could seriously
aay that the Legislature who passed this law had
erer any sncb int ntion as this. The creditors of
tiM public would certainly have no reason to
«Mtplain if fniMls to the same amount were
giren; and, in this ease, there was in fact only si
change of form, for th< atoouni of debt was not
changed.
The policy of selling Batik stock was objected
to by some genilenien, others approved of it
Whether it was sold or not, would nut depend up-
•m them, i.ut upon the Conimis^iunera of the
Sinking Fund, who were to sell it only if they
■ bought ii more advantageous to the United
Stales than (o sell the six per cent, stock. And
he thought there could be no risk in leaving this
power with tho^ gentlemen.
But whether it was desirable to keep their
shares in the Bank of the United States was an-
other question. If genilenen thought it would
be advantageous to keep them, be should be glad
if they would inform the Committee in what
those advanta^s consisted, and then they should
be enabled to judge for themselves. On a former
occasion, when the question was before them, be
had given it as his opinion that no good could
■rise to Oovernment Irom the connezioa. He
wished it might be recollected that he did not
say a single syllable against the Bank, but ac-
knowledged that they had done service to the
Oovernment by lending them money upon occa-
sions of emergency. Until he was assured that
they demanded payment of the wbole five mU-
lions, it was true he was against funding that
sum, because he knew ii was the worst possible
time to borrow money ; but now tbey have said
tbey must have it, he was willing and desiroua it
should be paid them, notwithstanding that he
could not help observing at that time that he did
not think it was perfeclTygood treatmeni to come
forward at such a time and demand, not a part,
but the whole of the money advanced from time
time in anticipation of the revenues of the United
States. He thought, in doing this, they showed
less indulgence to Giovernment than they did to
ibeir customers in general, who obtained from
time to time what answered to our loans ; and he
believed the Bank war Dot in the habit of with-
drawing at once the whole amount of the dis-
counts they had been used to make for any of
their good customers. To Ooverament they had
not shown the same kind treatmeat — tbey had
demanded the whole of their debt. He was laid
now they had changed their tntnd, and would
take less than the r.rhole. The letter which had
been read to them did not, however, speak of a
part but the whole. He wan convinced the Bank
wanted money, and he was willing to pay ihem
what they wanted: but .lince they were asking
at once the whole amount ol what was due ihem,
for his own part he saw no advantage Go^eio-
meni had from being a stockholder of the Bank.
As for the future, Mr. Q. said, if the Bank had
money to lend, they would lend it to Guv erament.
when they could spare it, but, when scarce, they
would ask for it back. They coold not have re-
quested payment at a worse time than now, al-
though Oovernment were a stockholder, and,
therefore, they would lose nothing by ^ling
their shares.
Mr. HABPEBwasin bopestfais discussion would
have been gone through without any c
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HISTOnT OP CONGRESS.
MiT, 1796.]
Debit o/* the IMled Statet.
14H
{H^orK
iD^ ibrowD upon ihe
philippic uainat iis Di
donf, and, Delievioff tli
D of the BsDit, or
; but thia had been
, elieviog tbe charges unfoODded aod
undeserved, he would make a few obserTatioas
Tipon them ; but Smt be would proceed to con-
■Ider the ameodment itnelf.
Tbe questioa was in which way ihej ihould
pay the Bank? There were three modes of pay-
ing the debts: 1. To tell their praperl]r in the
Baok; 2. To lell the six per cent, atock uoder
par; 3. To create a slock which would sell al
)Hr, but which would bear a higher interest than
sir per cent. He would uol stop to consider the
com pars I ire merits of these modes, he helieved
they depended on nice caleutatioo. Thev Dad to
decide betwixt two priociples, viz : whether they
would sell their Bank stock or tbe six percent,
stock to be creHl,edT It had been said the conduct
of the Bank had been such as to warrant their
breakiog the connexion between that insiituiion
and Government.
What, be asked, had been ihiv bad conduct of
the Baokl Was it because it had lent two-thirds
of its capital, and now requested to be paid t
Was it because tbe Bank refused to lend its whole
funds at six per ceot.7 Or was it because the
Back was not able to make advances beyond Iwo-
tbirds of ilx capital? He would a-k if an indiri-
dnal had lent two-tbirds of his capital and ad-
vances bad been iocreased from time to lime,
and at length jiressed upon his debtor for a part
of his debt, whether this conduct would have
beenbiameablel
Mr. Gallatin said, he did not blame the Bank
for asking for a part, but for insistiug upon the
whole of the debt.
Mr. Hasper observed, it was taid that tbe
Bank called upon Government fur the wbide
amooat, because they were willing lo receive five
millions in part oi 46200,000. In what way Jo
they ask thieT Do thev say, pay us the money 1
No i ibey saj; they willbe conleuted if two mil-
lions were paid imoiediaiely. This would relieve
their present wants; and, for the other three mil-
lions, they will sell it at par, or if sold for more,
they wilt put it 10 theeredilof the Uniteit States.
Was this conduct to be blamed, or ought it to
give afienc<^^1 It was said, that when ihey had
money to spare, when ibejr had no u»e for it, tbejr
lent it to the United States. But he believed this
was not true; he believed the Baok had never
refused to lend Qovemment money till ibey had
lent them six-tenths of their whole capital, to its
CTeat loss and inconveaience. He thousht the
Tank was a very valuable connexion for Qovern-
jt the Directors of the Bank and the Ci
mitiee of Inquiry ; but be believed the Directors
did not express theraselven in those peremptory
terms which had been made use of by (he gentle-
man from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Gallatin!] He
believed their language was, " If you do not pay
usweihall suffer. Wedonoldemaod tbe money;
we must, however, have a part or we shall be
much injured; bu^ if you wish as to give yoo
assistnnce in Allure you must give os a consMer-
Me part. We do not wish, however, that tba
Government should be embarrassed on our ac-
count." And, if this was their language, they
were not certainly to blanii^.
Whether the debt should be paid by onv kind
of slock or another, he would leave to be discuss>
ed by other gentlemen. He believed his col-
league's plan was best. He thought it belter to
selfsiock under par than to pay a larger interest
than six per cent.
Mr. CsBiariG called for the reading of the ait-
swer of the Batik Directors to tbe inquiry made
of them by a committee from that House re-
specting certain moneys due to the Baok of tbe
Uoited States. He called for the reading of this
paper, as he believed it would completely answer
every thing which had been said by the gentle-
man last up. With respect to the amendment of
the Senate, he should certainly vole ajrniisl it.
[Tbe paper wf Bread. See a?tfe, page 1295.] And
Mr. C. declared it was an answer to all the argu-
United Siaies, considered either as a body politic
or as individuals, had acted perfectly fair and pa>
triolic. He believed thev consulted Ibeiruwn in-
lereslj as all personit it business would do ; but,
Dotnriihsianding this opinion of the Bank, he
should he for filing the i-hares which Govern-
meot -eld in it, because he thought theii situation
They had been told, that if they sold these
shares Ihe public faith would be violated ; but he
believed ihey were not so little infurmed as not
to know that they had a ri^ht to pay their credit-
ors by what means they pleased. If their credit*
orsgot their money, na inquiry would he made
from whence it came. But they were told this
fund was pled^eJ solely for a particular purpose ;
but, he snid, since that lime the resources of tbe
United States were mucb increased. It was, in-
deed, also true that the expenses of Qovemment
weie increased, but the whole of our resources
were pledged to our pnbiic creditors. The ex-
penses of Qovemment were only defrayed out of
them, and the residue went to pay the interest
and principal of the Public Debt; and, as the ex-
penses of Government increased, new resources
must be found. If was the spirit, and not the
letter of the law, Mr. L. said, which was to be
re".pected. Did the public creditors want more
security than tbe resources of the United States
afforded 1 He believed they were perfectly cat-
isSed.
If tbe,sii per cent, stock could be &old at par,
then the Bank slock would not be sold ; bat if
that stock will not bring par price.the Commif-
siooers of the Sinking Fund will be at liberty to
sell the Bank Ftock to answer the present de-
mand made by the Btink upon (kivernmetiL
When this floating debt shall have been paid Ihe
United States would be liberated from it. As 10
the idea of violating public faith, if theyreferred
to the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury,
it would be foiiad he admitted the right of divert-
ed byGoOglc
^M9
BISTORT QF CC^H^^VW-
l^H
lf>rlL}
Debit a/tlu VhiUd Stottf.
plAT.lTatt.
by Ainda if necesiitjr reqn'red it. He b^i do
^pabl aboat the principle, and wai glad to see
nnilemeo disposed to resort to this resource.
!lAt- SwAKWtcK said, a great deal or eitraaeous
Butter wax ioiraduced into the preseot debate
aJtiMt ihe Baok- The simple idea was that they
Saf a debt, to pay, and tbey wished to pay it in
the best way. No one would doubt they ou^hi
to prefer gain to los». It was an embarra»siDg
citcumstaoce that the Gove rn me nt appeared debt-
or and creditor at the same time; Tor, if they
were borrowiog money.of the Bank, they mighi
be told that it was afainst their interest lo have
mnch of the money of tbe Bank at six per cent.,
a* more could be made of it by discounting to
merchants, and, therefore, their dividends would
be larger. This system of being debtor and cre-
ditor at the same time inrolved difficulties which
could only be understood by men who paid parti-
cular ati en tiou to thesubject; and, except gentle-
mepoo the Committee of Ways and Means, he be-
lieved few men in that House were completely ac-
quainted wilD the state of thepublicfinaDces. For
what gentleman on that floor, he asked, expected
to be called upon this session lo pay $5,000,000,
and that under par; and, indeed, when the bill
firtl passed that House, there was no idea of that
kind entertained.
It was said to be a Tiolatioo of public faith to
sell the Bank Ktock at all, and the genlltman from
South CarolinafMr. W.Shitb] complained that
there was no restriction laid upon the Commis-
aiouers of the Sinking Fund. He believed it was
DO violation of public faith to sell the Bank stock ;
if it were, he believed the Senate, who might be
supposed to have as nice a sense of public faith
as that g.'Dtlemaa, would not have proposed such
a measure; yet they had proposed ii, and he
thought it wiis bonoiable to them tbal they had
With respect to the operation the selling of the
Bank stock would have to prevent future accom-
modation being given to Government by the
Bank, he thought thev had no reason to believi
there would be any difference in that respect. Hi
was of opinion they would not object to lendiog
the Government money as usual; but, if they
should refuse to lend Government money as here-
tofore be should congratulate the United Stats
npon the occasion ; because (as he had fretguently
ODserved) the too great facility in borrowing mo-
ney was the ruin of all Qovernments, and be-
cause a Gavernmeot was never so truly respect-
able as when its revenues were fully equal lo its
demands. He himself was not one of the Com
mittee of Way* and Means; if be had been upon
that committee he might have suggested some
ideas that would have wen of service, it was m
that committee that all the resources of the
country originated. Nothing had been done this
lessiou for the revenue. They had brought for-
ward, it was true, a system of taxation on stamps.
jhpt it had been suffered to sleep in oblivion. The
important business which they had before them
relative to foreign Treaties, was perhaps a suOi-
cient apolc^y in part for this; but he hoped, du-
ring the tecesB, gentlemen would eoosidei upon
what was beat to be done op the subject of uxa-
lion, as theyfound, by the Heport of the Secie-
tary of the Treasury, that our eipenses this year
would probably exceed a million and a ball our
receipts.
Mr. W. Smith said, as far as the remarks of the
gentleman last up teiaied to the advanlagn of
selling Bank stock over six per cent, slock, he
shouid not for the present notice them, but, as
ihey related to jmbfic credit, they were entitled
to some notice. He did not observe that any gen-
tleman had shown that the public faith was not
pledged. [He again referred to the laws which
pledged it!] The Mntlemen from Penm^ylrania
[Mr. Gallatin] endravored to get over Ihe diffi-
culty by saying it was the amount of the fundi,
and not the funds themselves, which were appro-
priated; but, if he referred to the words of the
act, he would find (hat the funds them»elves wer«
specifically pledged to the payment of the Bank,
and the redemption of the Public DebL What,
then, will be Ihe consequence, said Mr. S.I Yoo
lake away the mortgia^e of ifie Bank slock, and
give the creditors nothing in return. He would
atik that gentleman if he bad a valuable specific
--y from another person, and that person
say to him, thoui
I, though .
iledgedto
were l6 take that pledge for another purpose, and
;h I have taken nway the fund
^ to you, slill my estate in Ecneial
..ill be good security for your dcbl, wbelher he
would be satisGedT He certaioly would not. If
Ihe Bank slock were taken away the creditor
would have lo rely only upon the surplus of the
revenue afier all other prior appropriation.^ were
satisfied ; and, if there should be no surplus, then
..jthJDff Kuhstiiuted. Wa
violation of tl
The divider
°s»ly and solemnly v
of the Sinking Fund for the di^cha^ge
of the Public Debt, and the public faith pledged
that ihty sbuuld ni remain tilt the whole debt
was redeemed. How did ihe geailemsn get over
ihial He said he would provide as much more
out of the unappropriated tevennes atiVma from
imports, but there might be none. Beside^Mr. S,
said, Government had plei'ged specifically the
dividend.i of the Bank stock, and it was a viola-
tion of public failb lo withdraw a rprcilic pledge
for an uncertain and precarious fund. He con-
ceived, therefore, no satisfactory answer had been
given to bis (>bjetlions,aod that unless genilemea
came forward and produced a specific subsiitnie
of equal value, thesp dividends could nor be taken
away without violating the public faith.
Mr. B. had hoped ih'' gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania [Mr. Gallatin] would not have chafed
the Bank of the United States with ver^iility.
when he himself had so frequently changed hi*
opinion fa this subject. That genlfeman was op-
posed to paying off the five millions required by
the Bank, and ^poke two hours to show the pro-
priety of raying only $1,200,000, upon the ground
that the Bank ought lo continue their aiiticip*-
lions of Ihe |3,8Cn^OO0. He immediauly afier-
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IH9
HKTTOST 0? CONGSHeS.
ftlt^ff
H^r.VtM.}
JMbfi ijf tie United SUU^.
ward! caou foiward with a motum tQ appoint a
Qomioittee to inquire wVether the Bank demanded
^e mooe^, because, if itiey demanded it, be
muld have them paid tbe wbole. He was now
oppotiog the sale of the stock under par, if neces-
nry, wnich the Bank required. Yet, toough he
was himself so inconsistent, be was readjr to
blame the Bank for the s&me kind of conducL
The Bank, Mr. 8. said, bad always advanced
mDoey liberallf to QoTernmenl, whenever it was
wanted. Fi»e railHobs were now due. They now
saj to Government. " We cannot go on any fur-
ther, except jrou pay a part of what you owe us ;
we wish (o have tbe whole, but a part i.* iadispeo-
sabljr necessary." To raise a part of this money
immediately, il had been proposed to sell two
millions of the biz per cent stock under par, if
AEcesssry ; this the gentleman was opposed to,
■nd, as a substitute, the Bank stock which Qovero-
meot held, was proposed to be sold at any pricej
amoHj; other rea->on3, to dissolve tbe cooneiion
between the Bank and the United States. He
did not expect objections to the conoezion be-
tweeo tbe Oorernment end tbe Bank of the Unit-
ed States from a ^ntleman who thought so well
of and bad patronised tbe connexion between the
State of Pennsylvania and tbe Bank of that State.
He could not tee any difference betwixt the two
cases, it was well known that the S^aleof Penn-
glvaaia held considerable property in the Slate
ank. The funds of thm Sute were in a very
flourishing coiidition,aDd it was thought,' by souiti.
to be partly owing to that circumstance. But,
GDtlemen say, the Bank of the United Slates had
haved improperly, and, therefore, they would
have no further conoeiion with it. It had been
for many yearafasbioaable to abuse the Bank. He
bimsetr had formerly held some shares in it ; be
had been a Director { but he had long ago sold bia
•hares, and resigned bis.swt at a Director, and
would have no more to do with the institution,
because it was deemed by fomesoheinousacrime;
but. when he knew that the Bank had rendered
nseful and arreat services to the United Slates,
at a crisis when, but for the timely assisiaoce.
the prompt aid of the Bank, the Government
might have been prostrated, be could not eoosist-
enlly with hisduiy. and_witfi his feelings ufgrali'
tude, complain, wbeo they informed Governoient
tber could advance no more uatii apart at least
of the debt was reimbursed.
When the gentleman from Pentisylvaaia said
that the Bank had demanded ibe money in suob
terms as, " We will be paid, we mast be paid," he
put into the mouths of the Directors a disrespect-
ful language, with which they had never insulted
ib« QorernmeDi. They had done no more than
barely state their situation. He saw no ua
thus perverting their language, unless it wen
signed tu prejudice the House against them. He
wished ^ntleineo would review the conduct of
this institution towards Government. What was
their conduct when an insurrection had broken
out in the eountry.and when tbe Oovernmeni had
not tbe means of suppressing it} Did not the
B^k enable Qovemment tontiaeafotceby which
He knew the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. I
Gallatin] thought differently; that geotleman .
had said tbe Army wan not necessary on that occa- I
siun ; but Congress had approved of tbe meastue, ,
and, moreover, had authorized the PaBaiDGHT to
keep an Army stationed in the country. This was
no proof that the Pbbbideht was not deemed jus-
tifiable in baring marcned the Army, and he qould
not have done it without the aid of the Bank.
What was the conduet of the Bank with respect
to the Aigerine negotiation 1 They lent (800,000
towards Die million' loan. Indeed, they had ^ne
on lending to Government, until tney had injured
themselves by it ; they had done it to their wrong.
They had been obliged, by their excessive ad-
vances to Government, to abridge their diicovnt^
whiuh had disntisfied their but customers, and
raised them up many enemies. He, therefore,
thought them perfeetir justifiable in requirinj;
payment of what wa* due to them, and tlMt any
animadversion upon their oooducl was tUtogether
unjustifiable.
Mr. 8. concluded with observing, that no sad»-
factory answer bad been given to his argument of
the public Caith being violated, and that he woulA
much rather both the Bank and the Oovernmeni
should suffer greater inconvenience than that a
violation of their plighted faiih should ever take
place. Tbe geotlemao from Pennsylvania wemetl
to shelter himself under the conduct of the Seoato,
but be must own that thi!> proposition of theirs
had somewhat diminished his confidence in that
branch of the Gbvemmeat.
Mr. VcNABLE hoped the amendment would be
retained, as it would give the Commissioners of
the Sinking Fund a greater latitude than they
otherwise would have, as they had disagreed to
the other amendments of the Senate. As to the
condaci of the Bank, he thought the treatment
they had shown to Government was not that kind
of treatment which they showed to other custom-
ers, and any man being so treated would break .
his connexion with it ; for he waa told that bank-
ers never discontinued the whole of their dis-
counts to merchants ; and he believed that a treat-
ment like that which had been used with respect
to Government, might destroy the most respecta-
ble merchant in Philadelphia.
When inquiry was made whether the Bank re-
quired the whole of the five millions, or whether
a part would answer their present purpose, tbejr
answered they roust have the whole; but now
Sentlemen say that two and a half millions will
o for their immediate purpose. This seented as
if they were conscious of baring done wrong in
demanding the whole. He believed if they were
to pay the Bank five millions to-day, ihey would
lead Government half of it to-morrow. It w»
their business to lend money. Why did gentle>
men tell them that the Bank was always doing
Gh>vernraent favors 1 The United Statea lost
tdOfiK upon the $600,000 which they bad lent
them on account of the Aigerine peace, and in
paying them in six per cent, stock under par they
.dbyGoogle
il"4'4»
HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
]44e
H. OP R.]
Dditt of the UiUUd Stati*.
[U*T, 1796.
might lose as macb more. He hoped ihe Bink
Mock woulJ be sold.
Mr. S. SxiTB hoped the question would be taken
on the ameDdraent of the Senate. If he under-
•tood that ameodmentj it weal to ^tre unlimited
power t-i the Gommi.vioaeraorthe Sinking Fund
to sell the Bank slock, whilst they were prohibited
from selling the six per rent slock under par.
Same gentlemen, indeed, seemed willing to sell it
St any price. Qenllemen said BOf other bank
would lend QoTernment money ; he believed this
would be fouD ) an error. He knew several banks
whose constitutioa forbade tlie leading of iheir
money to Qovernmear; and others, he believed,
would refute on other ground. It was not a verj
pleasant circumitance to a bank to hare iheir
names brought up in that House, as being diittess-
ed for want of money. What did the Bank of
the United Sutes ask 1 They asked the payment
of money which was due. But gentlemen had
•aid merchants could replace notes when due, by
other note*. They did not seem to understand
tbii business. If he, as a merchant, had a note
due, he could not pay it by another niite. This
vu an unfaLr calculaiion. If the credit of a mer-
chant waa bad indeed, a bank might perhaps lend
bim a part of the mooey.from a wish to lake him
out of the bank in the best maaner they could.
By their large advances to Qovernnteni the Bank
had been obliged to strike off one-third of [heir
customers, who had been obliged lo go to the
broker^ and pay three per cent, for discounts.
Gentlemen had laid that the Bank had de-
manded the whole anm of &ve millions. They
had said, it was true, they would be glad to have
it, thut they might accommodate their customers.
Whence, be asked, was the profit of banks de-
rived? From their credit, from the deposites
made with themj which enaoled them to discount
largely and to make large dividends. But he, as
t merchant, finding the Bank pinched for money,
and that he could not get well served with dis-
counts, took his deposltes away. And where would
he then go 7 To the Bank ol Pennaylvania. He
did not mean to say that this was the wish of
gentlemen from Pennsylvania, but if d.posites
were taken from this Bank, they would go to that
Bank, or the Bank of North America. If thiu
were not the case, the Bank of the United Slates
would divide twelve, instead of eight per cent.
He had said so much from his koowledire of the
direction of banks. He believed, if they had said
(0 the Bank that they would pay two millions at
present, and desired the rest to hare remained,
they would have taken it. He hoped ther should
not sell the Bank stock, bat sell two millions of
the six per cent, itock, at the best price which
could be got for it.
Mr. SiTOBBjivEa laid, he had heard for the first
lime, to-day, that it was ill tisage for a creditor
to ask for bis money. There was no doubt
about the moneyS being due, and all seemed in-
clined to pay it } the only difficulty was in what
way it should be paid One of the methods pro-
powd was, to sell the Bank stock. He wns not
(atiified that it wonld be for their interest to do this,
if they were at liberty to do it. He believed, in
that case, he (honld be in favor of aellin^ the six
percent stock; but the most important objrctioa
was (as had been stated hy the gentleman f-om
Sjuth Carolina, Mr. W. Smitb) lb«t thew fan^
were pledged by law for a pirtieular purpose. He
did not rise to reply to the observations of his col-
league, as they had been coninletely answered by
the gentleman from Sonth CarDliiiB,.lK]t lojfire
it asliis opinion that the dividends arising uom
the Bank Mock were expressly approprUted, and
could not be diverted on any aceounL
Mr. Oallatih did not intend to have (ronbled
the Committee again, but he found it aecessary
to notice some observations which had be«a
made. He meant not to run over all tbe argu-
ments which had been used ; he would only ad-
vert to the que;4tJon whether, setting aside the
policy of the measure, they had a rizht to acU the
Bank stock or not? He would not go to the report
of the Secretary of the Treasury for the cooatme-
tion of an act, but recur lo the act itself. He
read the act. nnd adveninz to (hat clause which
pledged the faith of the United States '^ that the
moneys or funds therein ennmerated ahali invio-
lably remain appropriated," &c., he iosisted that
the meaning oi the act was to pledge a certain
amount of money, and not a certain fnnd. It was
not said that the whole fund should be appropri-
ated to such a purpose, but so much only as was
necessary to di.'charge such and soch debtik It
was, therefore, the money arising from such a
source and not the thing itself which was mewiL
He did not believe it was the inieniiunof the Le-
gislature to mortg,)ge the funds; it was meant
that the money arising from such a source, to such
an amount, should be appropriated for Mich a pur-
pose; and ihatifone ^um wds taken away, another
mu:<t be provided. He therefore believed it was
fully in their power lo appropriate the Bank
slock to whatever purpose they pleased. And
when they did it, it woulif become their duty to
appropriatea sum equal to the amoont of the divi-
dend which arose from the Bank sioci^ to the
purpose for which it was heretofore appropriated.
It waa not form, but substance, to which they
were to att«nd. Their contract with the creditora
was, that the money was to be paid ; and so hjag
as they were paid, they would have no remvon lo
complam. In fact, there was no real want of ibe
appropriation, except for the payment of the inte-
rest of the loan ; yet, for fear of any mistake on
the subject, he had no objection to laclode both.
And if public failb was not violated by tbe tale of
Bank itock, he saw no reason which ought to pre*
vent them from selling of it.
One of the geotlemen from Sooth CaroUna [Mr.
SifiTBJ seemed ta think there was an adrantsge
to Government in their being stockholders, and
had cbai^d him, Mr. Q., with ineonBistency. Ai
to Ihe conduct of the Bank, it was literally as be
had reported it ; nor had he Iieen inconsistenl wilfc
himself. In the first place, they had a oill tofuikd
five millions. He objected to it, becaasr the Baak
had not then demanded ih«t s-im. When he wu
acensed of a breach of bith, in not pajring ikat
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HISTOBT OF csoircaiEsft
14««
ii«,»9e.]
WaTOu UHlai AoAK
[HL<
uoneir, he brmigfat fonrerd a MMlotMB t^ iaqui-
n, Bs he bad Mfore Msied. In answer to this
IM Bank hud pasted tbe rasolatioD now oa their
tBMe, Mhipg for the whole of the OMMiey, and he
than had wiibdtaWv hii oppotltion. The bill had
acoordiitsly passed this Honse. To say that the
Bank had required immediate payment for the
wfaok. was not ntattdr of eonversaiion. It was
offiekiiy eommonieated. He wished to know,
when we asked oar creditor whether b« wontd
MOiinue a part of his loans, and the answer waa
that be reqnested the Whole debt to be esiiogaish-
ed, whether that was not a potitive aDswer*^ In
giTJng this answer they oonsnlied their own in-
terest, acxl that atone. Mr. O. said he bad alraidj
been Uamed for speaking his teatiments on this
aeeasiou, ami be mi|rbt be blamed again. What
did the gentleman from Houth Carolina [Mr.
SitrTKl oean wbea he said he did not expect to
hnr the Bank UamH for loaning Oovernment
money for the purpose of nppressing the insur-
lection? He did not blame them ror anything
eacept for refusing to continue a part of the antici-
nations on loan, when they were ooBi^eious the
United Stales had a right to their indulgence,
from the adrantage^they drew from GoTernment,
and frofla the temporary embarrassments in which
they were thrown by the sudden and uneipected
demand of the whole. It seemed he was not mis-
taken, for. though opt officially, it now appeared,
from gentlemeu who pretended to know the wishes
aC the Bank, tint iher were willing to reeeire a
part only. He wished they had done ibis at first.
II was, however, in conformity to the answer re-
ceived from them that the bill was now framed.
If tbey bad since varied tbeir determioation, no
one but themselves were to be» chained with
inconsistency.
Mr. G. added, that according to the ideas he had
mentioned, he woqld more an amendment to the
amendment of the Senate, in cheee words :
"And snch at Qui nvennes of :he United Btstn
hareMfixe appt«|mated fbr the nyment of intersat on
■och debts (ss shall bs paid witti the moneys proceed- .
ing from the sateof Bu« slock) ahBll be, and me seine'
is hereby, pledged and appn^iristBd towsrds paying tiwi
intenat anatke insubneawof dM ptiiioipal which shall
hsreaitei become due en lb* loui of two nillian of d^
Ure ahlained from Ito Bank of the United States, for
the puipoaeofMyn^thoshuMofBsiiltsMckfaalaai^
ing to the UniWd State*, and diMcaedb^tUseeotioa to
be eold."
Mr. W., Smith observed, ihM by telling the
Bank ilock, they would apply money to ose object
vrbieh was expressly approptlalcd by law to an-
Dthar. [Ur. 9. rntd the clause of the act.] It wai
taking away a fimd which prodneed a certain
and cotMiderable income, and replacing it with
soroething very nnoertain. It was giving a claim
upon the general revenues, after all the expenses
of Oavemment were paid, and if there thoald be
no surplDs there wonld be no snbsiitnte. For his
part, he did not believe there wonU be any
aurrios.
The gentleman from PennsylTania [Mr. Gal-
Lia-rix] bad said he sfaotild not go to the Report of
■etary <n (he Trwasirry to learn the «
of the law. Let him, then, look tnto
the Seereiarv a
struction of the law. Let him', then. look tnto t&j|
Jonrnrie of the House : it would l>e foond lb«f
a qofistion had been solemnly debated whether
this food should not be so tied up as not to be ap*
proprtated to any other nurpose, and theyeaa aoA
nays taken upon it, and decided m the affirmative.
With respect to what had been said about thi
willingness d the Bank to receive two miUhnil
for the present, he believed genflemen had m^
taken the meanii^ of the Directors. He betieTttf
two millions Were wanted for immediate relief}
but that the Bank were content that the remain-
der shoald not be sold under pat. Their wish wa^
undoubtedly, to have the whole five millions paid,
but knowing the great disadvantage to which it
might pDi Government, they were wHling to re-
ceive only that sum for the present.
Mr. Nicholas controverted the opinion of tli<l
gentleman lait up. with respect to tie dividendt
Bein^ pledged in ifie way he mentioned, and wat
confident there was no good ground for objecimg
to the sale of the Bank stock on that pretence.
The question was pat and carried on the amend-
ment, and (hen the Senate's amendment was
agrera to as amended.
The Committee then rose and reported the
amendments, and the Hoose adjourned.
WiDNBSDAT, May 25.
On motion, the report of the committee appotat-
ed to confer with the Senate on the subject m their
disagreement with respect to the amendments pro-
posed to the bill for the relief of pptvons imprisoned
for debt, was taken up and agreed to. [At the biU
now stands, the plan of aecommodating the laws
of the United States to the State in which aa
action should be brought is done away, and an
uniform plan is adopted tfaioughaut the Union,
wfaich allows no man to be imprisoned for deb^
who surrenders his property ana swears or affirm*
be is not worth mare thav thirty dollan. Bj
leaving thia sum it is jneant that a laan shonld
not be deprtred of his tools, Ac., so as to render
hitn onable to e«m his t'utore living.]
The House reaolved itself into a Commttiee of
the Whole to indeianify the eatate of the tat*
Major Oeneral OrceDe, from tbe payment of m
eertaia brad, far ^11,397, which wai said to bv
giren an accottnl of Government After a few
ofaeerratiaas, it waa i^reed to^ read a third tloM,
and patted.
DEBTS OF THE UNITED 8TATE8.
bill providiw for the payment of certain debts of
the United States.
Mr. W. SHfTB said, he wished to propose Mi
amendmenL They had agreed to the proviaioii
of the bill, he said, by wfaich the Commissionera
of the Sinking Fund were prevented from selling
the six per cent, stock under par : but no provisioa
had beoi made to prevent Bank stock from being
sold for lest than its Talue, whiijh waa 133} pea
.dbyGoogle
HisTOBT OF cosamaB.
I4S9
«■-'»■]
fpntf Bat,ai the bill uawBtood,tb« CommiMJon*
era jsight McriGce the interett* of tha Uoited
States by Klliog ihe Back atock Bt a inoch lower
pfice. Indeed, there appeared an iacoDsitleucf
pD (he face of the bill bf limiling the sale at par
in one case, and not in the other. If they were
determined the aiz per ceoL stock should not go
nnder par, they oiu;iiC also to determioe that ibe
Bank slock should not be sold under its valoe.
Be had made some obserTaiioos yesterday, he
Bid, upoD the Tiolation of the public faith, by sell-
ing the Baok slock; but, if toe House were de-
termined not to listen to ibose argumeDts, he trust-
ed they would atceod to the pecuniary tnteresis ol
the country. At present, he said, the Bank slock
fielded an income of eight per cent., and he was
conGdeoL if they were to make provision for the
Eymeni of their debt to the Bank, it would pro-
ce ten or tweWe per cent. Was it then proper,
he asked. wa« it prudent, to proceed to sell this
(toct at tne price which he feared it would sell
Mil For he considered that, bringing twoniil-
lioriB of this stock into market at once, would
lower the price considerably. In order, therefore,
to guard the interests of the United Stales, ana
for the rake of appearing consistent, he should
moTe an amendment to llie following effect, to
follow afler that of the Senate
" Frxnidtd, lltat (t ^loidd not be lawM for the nid
Commiwiooers to sell UI7 than or disres ol Bank
■loek aX a baa ra.e or price than 33^ per cent, advance
Mr. SwANwicK said, it was obvious, at first sight,
That an amazins distinction was made between
the stockofiheUoiied Stales and the Bank stock.
In one case the stock was proposed to be sold
' underpar, andin theotber, tobelimiledat
S!T cent, above par. If the gentleman from South
aroliea had proposed (hat Bank slock should not
be sold under par or the firat cost, he should wil-
lingly have agreed to it ; bat, when he fixes it al
S3 per eenl. premiun^ he calculates upon the pro-
file of the Bank which were liable to {^reai uncer-
tainty. What did this stock cost the Dnjted BtatesT
It coet pu. What the dividends might be. de-
pended upon various cinnttmtBnces. The obi
was to wy our debts. Two miUians of doll
mint be nad; but if the six percent, be limited at
Cr, and Bank stock be not allowed to be sold foi
a than 33 per cent above par, it would be sup-
poeed, perhaps, they had no Intention to pa^ the
Bank at all. In that case, (hey might experience
all the difficulties which the gentleman from
South Carolina, yesterday, pointed out, if the &tock
should not tell. It must be observed that, in mak-
ing payment to the Bank, the public must be a
loser, because the stocks were low. The question
was, in which they should be the greatest losers,
whether in selling OoTemmeni slock or Bank
Moekl He thought it would be less injury for the
Bank stock to sell low, than the six per cents,
should sell under per, as he conceived no princi-
ple so injurious to a nation as the selling of its
own stock under par ; when once such a principle
obtains in the Governmeal, there is bo koowuw
where it will stop.
IMbU oj Uu UitHai ataUt.
He did not think it necessary to limit the price
of Bank stock. He believed the present piiea
was 27 per cent, above par. He did not, tnere-
fore, think the price vroiild be materially affected
by the sale of the Government sharea, aa it wss
more in demand, proportionably, than any other
kind of stock.
When the Bank of the United States nw the
mode of payment determined np<Hi for them, he
vras of opinion that, rather than lose the Chtvemr
ment u a partner in the Bank, they would take
the stock at par, which could be done without low
to them, as he was persuaded -1 bey could get that
price for iL allowing time in the payment.
He had been charsed, he said, with an >fip«»r-
ance of jealousy, with respect to the Commusion-
ers of the Sinking Fuud ; but he would as soon
commit the Bank stock to their care as (he othet
stock, because he was sure no sale could take
place under par. The United States micht boy
in again Bank stock when they choae, and there-
fore, when he considered the whole, he could not
help concluding that it would be most advisable
10 sell the Bank stock ; and he was iigatast limit-
ing the Commissioners of the Sinking Pnnd to
any particular rate of advance upon ic His argu-
ments, he said, were founded on his zeal for pub-
lic credit, and ne was desirous that nothing sbanld
!o out of that House which should have a tea-
ency to injure it.
Mr. 8. Smith Mid, the gentleman laat np had a
very uofortuDBte mode of supporting pubiie credit.
He believed he had mistaken the amendment as
well as the bill. The amendment was, that the
Bank stock should not be fold for less (han 33 per
cent, above par. He had said, that it would be
injurious to tti%intereats of the United States that
six per cent, stock should sell under par, and this
provision went to prevent a stock which produced
eight per cent, from being sold under par. Mr. 8,
insisted that it would be a great disadvaniage to
the United States la sell the Bank sIoek,as, when
this money shall have been paid, ihe stock would
produce at least ten per cent.
Mr. Williams thought the fnce of the Bank
stock should be limiteoas well as the nx per cent,
&tock. He believed there would he no Bank stock
sold, as the Directors would wish the conueiiaii
to remain ; and if not sold, it mattered not whe-
ther the price was fixed at 33 or any other sum.
If much of either kind of stock was logo into the
market at once, it would lower the price ; and if
it went much under per it would be iojorious la
Qovemment — so mucn as was told under par be-
ing a clear loss to Qovernment If the amend-
ment of the sentleman from Sooth Carolna took
place, the whole would work tiM[ether <» a fait
Erineiiile ; bu(, if the whole Bank stock wwa
rought into the market at once, it would low«i
the. price. If, however, the Bank could not do
without their money, a question would arise whe-
ther thev should do iustice to the Bank, if the
stock dia not sell at tne price fixed. It wna ye*-
lerdajr said, that it was neceaaary the Bsnk^ooU
be paid; whether the demand arose from their
really wanting the money, ut tram « prine^e of
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HISTORT OF tX)NGRESS.
Hat, 17S6.}
DebU of tht UmUd States.
[H.orR.
gnD. he kdew doL He thongiit the amendment
would put the bill inlo a prefemble sitaattou to
that iawbich it was withogt it. Tbia put the
matter od a fait aod hoaorable footing, aou if the
Bank wished to coatinae the conaexioD with Oo-
TerDmeat, oa heretofore, its Directors would see
the neeesaity of disposiog of the six per cent stock
bill altogether. It appeared to him that, &ii]ce the
Bank must be paid) some sacrifice must be made,
and the queatioa was, which will be the least 1 If
the whole five miilioiu of aiz per cent, stock was
brought into the market at once, he shoald not
reckon upon its selliogr for more than serealeen
ihiUings. Gentlemen did not calculate the loss
which would be sustained b; this ; but thejr cal-
culated the loss on the sale of Bank stock. He
mid, if Bank stock was sold at twenty per cent.
above par, it would be a considerable gain ; and
was there not much difference betwixt doing this,
and suffering the loss which must tie sustained by
selling the other?
QeoilemeD seemed to think the Bank had done
Government a great favor by admitting it as a
pattner for two millians — bat he believed the char-
ter was worth the whole money to the Bank, and
therefore the favor lay on the other side. If this
amendmeot took place, the Bank stock would not
be sold ; and some new project most be hit upon.
As it stood at pre<iei>t, part of the Bank stock and
^it of the six percent, btock might have been sold,
any price wa« fixed upon the Bank stock, let it
be a market price ; the one now proposed was
known to be considerably abore it. If they meant
to pay the debt, he t>elieved they must sell Bank
stock under thepreseDtrace,or new stock blelow^r.
Mr. W. LvHAN 4aid, he had no hostility against
the Bank — he believed, as be said yesterday, they
were not blameable for doing what they had done.
They had said they could not do without the mo-
ney ; we must, therefore, said he, take measures
to pay them ; for they had a right to demand, and
it waa our duty to pay. But, added he, we are to
consult our own interest about the way in whicb
we will pay them. If this amendment took place,
thtef would get nothing. Would they '
be satisfied 1 No. This amendment, he said,
..ntended to defeat the amendment of yesterday.
Wtiich, he asked, was the best? He was at no
lo» to determine. He thought the plan which
propawd the sate of the Bank stock, without limi-
tation of price, was the best. If he was a stock-
holder in the Bank of the United States, a gen-
tleman had said, he would get out of it as soon as
possiblei and ilit was the interest of individnals
to ^et oat of it, it was not less the interest of the
United Slates to do so. This was an additional
motivefor selling that stock. He believed Banks
irere very useful to commerce ; but he feared
them as dangerous engines of Government, and
wUhed to get rid of the connexion. There was
■19 fear of the price falling, as the present holders
would purehase, inorder tokeepaptheprice,and
Ui«r should sell their shares to adraaUfe.
Mr. BointNB said, if he believed with the gen-'
tleman last up, that the Bank was a dangeioai
engine of Gbvernment, he should wish to sell the
Bink stock; but he did not believe this. On the
contrary, he was of opinion that this connexion
had been very useful to Qovernmeut; nor did ha
believe that gentleman could point out any Go-
vernment which had been carried on without a
similar connexion. The only question was, whe-
ther it was the interest of the United States to
authorize the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund
to sell this stock without limitation. He iKiieved
it would not. It was his opinion that it would be
more to (he interest of the United States to sell
the new stock even under par, than to sell the
Bank stock at the price propcned. Why, then,
should they not.fix some price?
Mr. Gallatin said, he knew nothing of what
the Senate would do,' nor was he afraid of the
Bank with respectto the Government, The Bank
might have an influence over individuals, but he
was not afraid df its influencing Government
The amendment proposed to-day involved two
questions, viz : — whetner it was proper to limit
the sale of Bank stock to its real value ; and, if
'proper, to determine what is that real value?
Upon the first question, the gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. VeitABLs] had certainly put it upon
true ground. The object of the mover of the pre-
sent amendment might tie to prevent the Bank
stock Irom selling tow ; but he believed its eflect
would be to prevent its tieing sold at all ; and by
doins so, deleat the purpose of the bill, and the
Bank would remain unpaid ; for the mover him-
self said, lliat if they give power to' the Commi»-
bring 87 percent, advance, wtiicn
price at market? And if, in the opinion of that
gentleman, the very act to bring them to market,
was to sink them below S7, how could he expect
that a single one could be sold at 33 ?
It had been represented to them that the six per
cent, stock would not bring par ; if it would have
done so all would have been well, but the Bank
had written a tetter, declaring ttiat it would not,
and, therefore, that the mode proposed for their
relief would not liave the effect When this letter
was produced, what was then done ? An amend-
ment was introduced to sell two and a half mil-
lions of the six per cent stock at any price wlticb
could be obtained ; but, on receivino- informatioa
from a gentleman who seemed to be acquainted
with the wishes of the Bank, [Mr, S.auiTB,] that
two and a hitlf millions wouliT satisfy them for the
present, the amendment bad been withdrawn, as,
in case the six percent did not bring par, the Bank
stock would jiroduce the sum mentioned ; keeping
the same object in view all along, viz :— the pay-
ing of the Bank whatever they demand, and in
the way most beneficial to the United States. If
the amendment was agreed to, it would defeat the
bill, for the provision to sell the Bankstock contem-
plated that caae where the new-created atuek
;dbvG00gle
i4sa
HISTQBT OF CGKeOOm,
OMtitfthe Vtmttd i
oooU not being pnr ; ud if it so happ^^d Bank
Mock woold be low in propoitioa, and, by th*
amemlmeDt, could nol be said. On tbe eontrarr,
the indefinite jtotret to Bell that stock would tend
to raJM the price of the six per cbiil
He thoof^t this perfectly clear, and he took
(Hily what gentlemen had themselves (aid. If the
two millions of Bank stock was btooffht to mar-
ket, it would have an effect to lower its prioe,and
it would become the interest, not only of the Di-
rectoTs ol the Bank, bat of all persons holding
Block to preveat such an operation. How could
this be done 7 By purchasing six per cent, at par.
Take off that inducement, said he, and yon take
off the inducement which all itockholaers and
moDeyed men would hare to purchase mz per
cent, stock.
Bni, if they were to fix the price below which
the Bank stock should not be sold, they ought not
to fix it at 33; upon the moTer's own principles, it
was not worth it. In Gxiog the price luus, he
calculated upon 6 per cent, stock aelling at par,
and Bank stock prodncing eight per cent., being
worth in proportion to the increase of interest;
tmi thb wa* not a jost calculation. It was trae,
the additional interest made the stock more valu-
aUe, but not in that proportion. That rule of cal-
culating value of stock by the rate of interest
would apply only lo a perpetual and irredeemable
' annuity. On the principle of the gentleman, six
per cent. Ftock should be worth twice as mucb as
three per cent. Bank stock might be considered
as an annuity redeemable at the expiration of its
charter, at tbe end of fifteen years.
If tbe six per cent, stock, irredeemable for twen-
ty-three years, was not worth more than par, an
e^ht per cent, stock, irredeemable for fifteen years,
was not worth 133 per cent.
He should be against the amendment, because
DO evil t;ould arise from the bill remaining in its
p^seni form, as he had confidence enough in the
Commissioners of the Sinking Fund that they
would not sacrifice the interests of the United
Stales by selling the Bank slock on lower terms
dian the market price, except tbe Bank was in a
sitnaliODtbatrequired.aQd would justify it; whilst,
oa the other hand, should the amendment preTail
and the Bank siDcK not bring 33 per oent.aaranee,
tbey would have no means of aaordiog- the Bank
that relief which they bad demanded.
Mr. CoiT hoped this discussion would nol con-
aoioe Koeh mora time. He thonght the propoeed
MDendment would make the bill uniformly bad,
«ttd4be end of tbe bill would be frustrated.
Mr. OiL.Ee (aid, ke was agabst this prapostlion,
becBiIsc it would prevent the sale of the Bank
stock. Mr. Q. said, he bad always been an ene-
my to the iosiitution from its commencement,
■JM be grew more and more so. He was not ac-
ttiated by motives which he was afraid to arow.
He apprehended evil from the institution to the
' Qovemment ; and he thought gentlemen needed
only to take a view of the conoexion between the
Baak and Oovernment for the last six months, to
be convinced of its being a daitgeroas political en-
gine. Ha thought, alao, that it waa a union of
moaeyed interasti^ whieb Wnded lo prevent llR
neo^e from having oac common interest. Indaed.
He tnought it uocoustiiatiooal.
Mr. Giles waa of opiaioii, that if tha prcasHl
proposition was agreed to, it woold drfeat the ob-
ject of the bill. A* tbe bill stood ai preteat, it
would be tbe intereat of stockholden who wtidre4
a continuance of the connexion betwixt the Oo-
remment and the Bank to remain, toadvanoe the
price of the six per cant stock, so ai to do away
the necemty of lelling any part of the BanB
stock.
He was not one of those, Mr, O. md, wto
thonght the Bank bad treated the Ooremmenl
rudely ; he believed they bad treated ibeai po-
litely. He believed they would eontiaae lo de
so, beeanse he looked upon the Bank as tbe usurer,
and the United Slates as the ipendtfarifi ; and,
whenever tbe Oovernment became larvdy ia their
debt, and involved in difficulty, the Bank woaM
come forward, and say — "Yon ow« the mooef,
and yau must pay it."
He wished, therefore, to see the connexion be-
Iwlit the Government and the Bank diseotved;
for he believed every predietion of its evil tenden-
cy bad been fully veKfied. He would rather sell
the Bank stock at a loss, than create new stoek;
and be saw no diSermce, with respect to ita le-
gality, betwixt selling the Bank stock and om
back lands, or any other property bdtMgiog to
the United Stales.
Gentlemen must have seen thai they must
either goon borrowing money, or delermiBe to ky
tsxes. He believed some permanent fund mast
be laid hold of. He was glad they could no longer
borrow money in Hollind ; and, be believed, the
present embarrassment would evenitially be tne-
ful to the United States. Tbe petty excise taxea
which ther had been enga^d in briasing fof
ward, would never be sufficient to answer rfaetr
purpose ; it was neeessary, therefore, to torn th«r
attention to some object of taxation which wenU
prove more productive, and do now wbai wisdofn
ought to have told them to have done kmg ago.
Mr. W. Suits said, whether ot not tbe Bank
had acted the part of s tisnrer, was lobe inrr-
miued; but, were tbe Hoofe iii disagree lo the
present amendnteat, he believed they vnmld ba
justly charged with beiog speDdthviAs.
The gentleman last up, and some others, had
said the Commissiooers woald doubtless aeli the
Bank stock for the market |Kiee. BbI tfaeae geo-
tlemen had no confidence in the Conmiviaavra
□a the former tjuestion. He believed the six per
centuia stock waU sell for niaet«ea sbilfa'nga,
which would only be a loss of five per cent B«it
whalvras likely to be the lossfm the Bank sieekY
H^ believed it profaaUe that there wuuld be a loas
of 33 per cent., for he did not think, when the two
inillioDs should be brought into Ike maitot, it
wonld sell above par ; besides which, they shooM
lose by the sale of it a probable increase of ia-
come of sixty or eighty ibonsand dollars a ye«r.
Was this circumstance not to be attended toT
Were they to ran this risk, because they had an
antipathy to the Bank} He hoped sot.
;dbvG00gle
»««T
fflSTORT OF eOBieBESB.
»OT,i7a8-]
DekU ^ Ma Uidttd .State.
[H.OFIL
OutUawD wue iacottaiaimt with thenuelres.
The; ssf the ameadment wilt not hftrethecfieet,
because oaoaeyed bmd will come forward and pre-
T«nt tbe Baok abkies from being told. How did
gaalieiaea reconcile ihete opinioiH 7 At one mo-
meat, they wisb liie Bank stock to tie wld i in the
QeKC, tber wy) it will not be «>ld.
But, w.Hiid thit be the effect % On the contrarr,
he beliered moDcyeil men would be glad of the
low price, for the putpcMe of specula (imi, for they
would be the purcbaMra. It ibe Bank were to
lUge payment, there were moDefed men in tbe
oooatr;, who would buy up tbe stock, and make
lortunes by it But, says the eeoilemaD from
PoBOBylrania, [Ur. Skanwiok.] Ibe United States
migtit hereaftei buy (ben in agaip— so, that gen-
tleman would have the Qoreioraaat turn speau-
btors.
Another gnrioni axgauent. It waa said the
Qperation of thia amendiaeol would be, there
would he no ptovieion for iIm Bank at alL Then,
vbat had they been doing T If Lbe
WSE to prevent iboHle of the Bank stock, it would
leave ihe six per cauL in the (atne situation in
whtcb it went from that House to the Senate, and
that was thought, by those gentlemen, a rery am-
ple prorision. They appeared, by this assertion,
to defeat tbeit own ar^umenti.
He had already said that, if the six per cent,
eook sold for nineteen ahilliikgs, thei« would be a
ts of only five per cent; but if the Bank atodt
■old at par. there would be a lots of 33. Qenile-
aun aay, (be pnaeat price was only W •■, he had
Bo objeoiioi^ to the prMe being left btwtk, -- "-
mj >w market prieej but. to anthoriie the
wasMMMm to brio^ tbe wbole to market, without
limitation, was giving an antkoriiy which they
Might Dol to give. Oeotlemea said, the| bad con-
fldcnoe in the CommiaiioMra ; but, ir they will
not eonKde in them in one ea*^ why in the irtber 1
Hehoaed the amendment would be agreod to, that
tbe biA might not pan with ao gtaring an
aisiency on the face of it,
Tbe question was ihea pdl sad negatived, 47
1033.
Hr. W. SiHTH then moved te inasrt, " not under
the market price."
Ur. WiLLUHB said it appeared to him tbaL
without the ameodmeat, the Commissioners of
(Jm Sinking Fond mi^ht bhog the whole into thi
maritet at imea, and by that means sink the price
ao much a* aot only to ooeasion considerable loss
%a the United States, bat to iBdividaatswboinight
bft obliged to «eU iWr shans- But gentlemen
^d, if tbeamnadmeat took place, it would defeat
Senate. With respect lo the oUcctions which
fWtlemen had to the bill, he believed this wis
»ot tbe foundatioa o( them. The genilemaa from
Tiqinia [Ur. GiusJ bad said, ha waa always an
enemy to tbe conneiioa beiwcan the Bank aid
^Ntnmeat a* unaonatiluiicaai, but be believed
llw LwMktnre had detevmined otberwise.
Ur. W. laid, ha wobU iiw a moment takes view
flfMiaffiun> AjwatorCvoapettfaif waremdar
every obligation to the Bank for motiey; and,
while the war continued in Europe, thev did not
know how soon they might have Dceasion agaia
to apply to the Bank for aRiistance. If any im-
foreseen circums lance* should take place, which
would have the effect to stop the source of ^our
revenue, ought we, said he, to do anything whick
would arrest the whole power of Oovernmenc ia
«h a easel He hoped the ameodm^t would
I wreed to.
"i&t. SwANWioE said, th« object of this bill was
to pay the Bank— to give them fresh elasticity;
But genilemen say, shall the United States bring
5 ODD shares of Bank stock inlo the market at once.
laough in the other ease ihey shonld bring, iostua
if two millions, five millions of dollars six pec
;ent. stock for sale 1 And was Bank^stoek only to
be r^arded 1 It waa astonithtog to see some geik*
tiemen extremely anxious about the credit orih«
Bank stock, and perfectly easy about tbe credit <^
the United States.
They were in difficulty. They must pay two
illioQs. Their own stock wlU not sell at par,
and it would surely be better to sacrifice a Utlif
on the advanced price of the Bank stock, than ta
do the most alarming and awful tbin^ imagine
ble, viz: injure tbe credit of the United Staler
by h(^i^ up an idea of ooiniag new stock, ana
selling il trttdn (be par prioe.
The gentleman from Sonth Carollaa aaid ibat
Ik bad no objeetion lo tbe insertion of " preoeiit
maiket prieej" Insiftad of "38 per cent." Thtt
would not be proper^ becaose the price might po9^
siUy vary, even while tbe bill Was passbg, and It
would be difficult to say What the present pticft
Mr. Macoh moved to strike oot the word " pre-
sent." It appeared to him that they had better
sail the Bank siock which they held, tinin ereata
new stock and sellil; for he believed, as stoeka
were now low, that if five millions of six per cents,
were now brought into the Inarket, iliev would
not sell tor more than from IS*, to 17a. 6d.
Mr. S. Smitb moved to strike out the whole of
the ptesentamendment. and insert " S3 pet cent."
Mr. W. Smith said, ne had no great objection.
He believed tbe present maiket price was about 27.
The gentlemAi from Pennsylvania had said he
had conversed with some of the Bank Directors,
and that they had no nbjectian to the Bank stock
being sold. He did not know bow that was, bnt
he believed many gentlemen wonld be pleased If
the whole of that stock should be brouglu into the
market, that the price falling, they raigbt have an
orawrtunity of speculating ; bnt. as fuardians of
the pnblic interest, he trusted tney should eonst-
der what was the best for the United States.
Mr, Harfbr hoped this ameDdment would oot
be agrMd to. As they bad rejected the only true
eriterioo of the value of Bank slock, viz; ^ he
wonld leave the sale unmtrained, as they had
agreed that, if tbe six per cent, stock eoold not ba
sold at par, this shDold be soM. He thoogh'. both
the detaTraiaatiooa wrong, b« he believed the '
present ameadmmt woald not make the matter
better, but woaaa.
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1459
HIST(Hrr OF CONGRESS.
,14«0
[.orR.J
Oniqietuatiim to Mankait, fe.
[M»,1796.
Ur. H. said h« had before lamenied that iikhould
hare been thouttbt neceusTV to loake philippics
uaJDBt the BsdE. The gentleman from Virginia
nSi. Qilbh] had told them that he baled the Baok.
Ttuy all knew that fire jenn ago. He called that
inslitutioD " An anion ot moneyed interest !□ keep
down the public opinion." He did not know wbal
be mfRDi by this. He did not believe that ibe
Bank could nierenl that House or 'Jhe GoTern-
ment from doing what they thought it proper to do.
The question was taken by yea> and nays on
the amendment, and negatived, 46 to 33. The
8onaIe'i amendmeDt was then cattied, 45 to 35.
HORTHWBSTERM TERRITORY.
The following Message was teceived fiom the
Prebidhht op tbe Ukited 8tat£8 :
Oml&nun of ihe Senate, and
of at Hoot of R^raaUaHvt* -
Ills msamra now in operation foi taking powesmon
of the ports of DeticHt and Michilimaekinu, render it
pn^MC that prorldon Aonld be made for extending to
these pkeea. and injotben alike drcuinstanoed, the dvil
•ndioritj of lh« NoT&weatera Teiribiij. To do this
will TcquiM an expense, to de&aj which the ordinuy
Mlariea of the Qonaaot and Secntaiy of that Teirita-
■7 appaai to be iiHompalent
"TU temiax of a new county or new conntiea, and
tte aniointnient of the Tarioiu oScen, which the jost
oei^e of Uowiunent mnst Tequire, will oblige the
Goranot and Seoeteij to liut IhoM plaeea, and ' ~
sent of the Vnhed States. Congreas will eoniidar
what prariiion will in this cue be proper.
O. WASHINGTON.
UnTBD Btatis, Maji 36, 1796.
The Message wu read, and ordered to be re-
Arred to Mr. SrranEATB^j Mr. Qreekup, and Mr.
Rudl
COHFBNBATION TO MARSHALS, dec
The Houte went intoa Commiitee of the Whole
on the bill making additional compensation to
Marshals, Jurors, Wilneasea, &k., in the trials of
persons concerned in the late insurrection. After
■ome observations on the subject — in which it was
^owed the pay now gireo to such person's was
iki too low, but that there could be no good reason
given for extending the provision to the lute trials
en account of the insurreetion more than others —
the principle was at length agreed to, and a sum of
^,000 (Bccording to the estimate of the Secre-
Uryof tbe Treasury) appropriated.
Mr. W. Smitb read a letter which he had re-
BO duties could be collected j that the Qovernor
himself refused to nay, and that tbe people sheltered
themselves under his example. He proposed, there-
fore, that a clause should be added to this bill — as
he doubted whether tbe report which had just been
lead refipectiiig tbe District Attorneys would be
got tbiougb this sessioB — allowing the Attorney
lor that district a compcnsatioQ which should
induce him to prosecute the busincM.
After n little debate on the Eobject — in wineh
Mr. Thatcbbb said it wb> in vain to pay any At-
torney to recover duties in that Slate, unee there
was not an honett man amongil them, in r«speci
to their duties, and Mr. Gbkkiidp, from that State,
bad repLed to him, defending the conduct of the
Governor and people of that State, and Uaming
the revenue officers, the additional seeticn ma
agreed to, 37 to 27.
The Committee rose and reported.
A message was received from the Senate iit-
forming the Honae that they bad disagreed to the
resolutKU to adjoaro the two Hoiuea on the fiSA
The am^idmeiils of tbe Senate to the bill alter-
ing the time of holding the District Court* of Vvt-
mont and Rhode Lilaod were agreed to.
The committee to whom was referred the Hea-
sage of the Phbsidbht respeoting an Allowance to
District Attorneys, r.;ported, and rvcommraded
sums from $150 to tSdO a year to be allowed to
tbem.in addition to their fees. The report— after
some objtctionn on the g'onnd of putti^ the eoor
•ideration off till next session — was rea^a a second
time, and ordered to be referred to a Committee
of the Whole to-morrow.
Tbdbsdat, May 26.
Mr. Tract reported abill for tbe relief of Johs
Sears; which was twice re*d, and ordered to be
committed ton Committee of the Whole to-day.
Ames»gefrom theSenateinformed the Home
that the Senate insisted upon their disairTvemeM
to the bill altering the compensation of Clerk*. A
Commiitee of C^ference wa* appointed o« the
sabieei uf disagreement.
On motion of Mr. 8. Bmitb, the House fottaed
itself into a Commiitee of the Whole on the UI
providing passports for the ships and resseb of
the United Slates; which was agreed to wichoBt
amendment, and ordered to be engrossed for a third
readingto-morrow.
TbeHouMwentintoaCDmrnitteeaflke Whtde
on the bill to continue in force tie acta thcTein
mentioned, which they made one unendincnt in,
and then rose. The House agreed to iL and or-
dered tbe bill to be engrossed for a third reading
to-day ; which it afierwardareeeiTed, and passed.
The House also considered, in Committee, die
n the term
of the lease was filled with three yeata. The
House asreed lO it. It was ordered to bare ita
third reading to-day ; which it bad, and passed.
A mesaage was received from the Senate io-
forming the House that they disagreed to theii
amendment in the bill providing for the payment
of certain Debts of the United &tes, and deaircd
a conference thereon. A Committee oS Goaier-
encfl was accordingly appointed.
The House took up the amendments yeatrrday
made in Committee of the Whole on the bill for
laliafying coiaio demaads occasioned by the tncb
during the late iasametifln, for pronding addi-
;dbvG00gle
14lt
EOKTOHT OF CONGRESS.
146»
Hat, 1786.}
Extra allmBanett to Oeriit, fc
[H.0
tioBBl pay Co Harahsla, Jurors, and WitDe«ie«,mnd
to «llow a Turther ca mpetuatiou u the Diairici
AiIOFuef of Kentucky. They were agreed lo.aud
the bill was ordered to be engroBsed and re«a th«
third time to-day. It was afterwards read the
third time and passed.
iBy this bill, an additional allowance of a dollar
ay is made to MarabaU, wbo bad before Ore
doll^; of one-and-a-half dollar to Grand and Petit
Juror*, who had before only fifty cents ; fifty cents
to witnesses, who were before paid agreeably to
the practice of each State; and two hundred dol-
lars were allowed, in addition to his fees, to the
District Attorney of Kentucity.]
EXTRA ALLOWANCE TO CLERKS.
Mr. SwAttwrcK denied the analogy of the two
cases. When a soldier enlisted into the Army be
knew he had risks to ran — his business was to
meet with danger ; but these clerks entered into
the service of Qovernment with no such view^
aod might have Qed, as their superiors did, when
the danger appeared. War and pestilence, he
said, could not be compared together. r
The Committee rose, and reported the bill thus
Dended ; when Mr. Bouhkb made a motion to
Itostpone the further consideration of the subject
till Uie first Monday in December, on the ground
of giring further time for considering the subject,
and because he thought some relief should be gir-
~- 10 those persoDB who were at preseni struck
of the bill. Mr. Swimwicb opposed th^ as he
said the widows were in want of relief, and b»-
cause a future bill might be brought in to afford
compensation to the clerks wbo had been happy
enough to survive the calamity. The postpone-
ment was, howeyer, carried by a large majority.
After some debate upon the propriety of post-
poning tbe subject till next .wssion, the House
went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill
making an extra allowance to certain clerks of
puUie offices, and the widows of such as are de-
ceased,'who remained in Philadelphia during the
ydlow fever, tt^ther with the report of the Com-
mittee of Claims thereon, to whom the bill had
been referred.
The report stated that the objects of the present
bill divided themselves into three classes, viz : the
widows of such clerks as died in the calamity;
snch as remained to transact business which was
necessary to b« done, and could not be transacted
at any other time; and such as remained to do
business which, though of some imjportonce, might
have been done afterwatda. With respect to the
first, the committee had no doubt as to the justice
of their claim: with respect to the latter two
classes, they were at a loss how to discriminate
between them, and therefore had reported in favor
of the whole. And yet they were aware :
be introducing a principle that would extend itself
to Now York, Baltimore, Norfolk, and New Ha-
ven, which had been visited by a similar calamity,
and consequently bring forward a considerabl
number ofclHimanls. The persons included i
this bill were betwiit 60 and 70 ; and though $100
dollars each was only proposed to be allowed, it
wonld nahe a considerable sum in the whole.
Mr. Swahwick advocated, with all his force,
tbe cause of these men wbo bad remained, he
said, at their stations when their superiors fled
from the pestilence which threatened them, and
which swept a number of the clerks away, whose
widows and orphans were now left to lament their
temerity. Mr. RcTHEaroBD also plead their
cause. Mr. Heatb and Mr. S. Smith opposed
the bill, as establishing too broad a principle,
whilst tney bad been obliged to turn a deaf ear to
tbe diatreised widows and orphans of soldiers, and
that, as these persons had no real claim upon
them, they ought to be just before they were gen-
erous. Ac length, od motion of Mr. Coit, the
first section of the bill was agreed to be struck
out, 36 to 25, and the other parti of the bill so al-
tered OS to include the widows of such persons as
died during the fever. Mr. S. Shitb approved of. States, and providing for
this measure, as being analc^us to tne relief [Aree inbabitaots thereof;'' to '
granted to wotinded sorters oi their widows ; but I tbe concurrence of this Hooie.
HILITART E8TABU8HHENT.
Mr, 8. Shitb, from the committee appointed
to confer with the Senate on the subject of iheit
disagreement with respect to the bill concerning
the Military Establishment, made a report. The
Senate have receded from their amendment in re-
spect to having tbe usual complement of dragoon*
instead of two companies, and the House M R«-
ptesentatives have agreed to their amendment fof
retaining the Major Qeneral, with a provision
that this act shall continoe in force only till tha
4th March next, (tbe day on which the next se*-
sioo of Congress closes.)
JOHN CLEVE8 SYMMES. ,
The House formed itself into a Committee of
the Whole on tbe letter and report of the At-
torney Qeneral on the petition of John Cleve*
Symmes and his accociatesj with respect toacon-
tract made by them with the Government of the
United States in 1792. By this contract, a mile
s^nare at or near the mouth of the Great Miami
river was reserved to the use of the United State*
forthepuTDOse of erecting thereon Fort Washing^
ton, ^wnichissaidnow to bean improper siCuatio^
Srovided a law was passed within two years from
eptember 30, 1794, authorizing the PiiGsitiEirr
OF THE United BTiTsa to locate the same.
A resolution to ihaieffect was therefore brought
forward and agreed to. Mr. Henderson Cropo»-
ed two resolutions, which would have led to aii
examination of the merits of the contract, whicl^
beins of an intricate nature, was objected to, at
this late period of the session. The Committee
therefore rose, reported the resolotion, and a com-
mittee was appointed to bring in a bill.
A message from the Senate informed the House
that the Senate have passed a bill, entilled"A^
act layiiw out into one State the territory cei'i^'
by the State of North Carolina to the Ur^Ji^
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VmtOm OF C0H8IIMR
H.Qr.B.]
Ag^fvr fhrtign fjqwniUwM, ^
lUA.T,t
Tke kill proTidiBC pwipona (or dupi and tm-
•cl* of ibe UiiiUd Sutea vu read a third tine
•ad pMKd.
On motion of Mr. GHmivna, the HonM nmU-
pi iuelf into a CommictFe of the Whole c« the
^t for the relief of Jotui Sean ; whieh wa* Bgreed
to. It va* ordered to be engrauad for a ihird
rradiog to-day ; wliicb it afterwardi rweived, nod
Vaa paMed.
The Houie aUo eauidered, in Coramitlee, lb«
bill to iati>fr the claim of Banm Steuben ; wbiob,
Vio; agreed to, wai ordered to be anffroated for
]r tburd reading to-mofrow.
ADMISHOIT OFTEmrEBBBB.
A bjtl from tbe Senate for layioff out into one
ptate the whole territorf Soolh oi the Ohio, ce-
fled by North Carolina lo the Uoiied States, wai
•Bad Ibe first time.
Mr. Maooit moved to reject tbit bill, at being
fredtealed on directly opposite groaod from that
OB which that Umue had come to a nwlution to
admit the Southwestern Territory as a Slate into
Mm VkIoi. This called forth considerable debate.
hat oereral of those who were averae to tbe bill
•ipreinDg a wiah that the bill might have a sec-
Ma readi^, in order to bedispowa of, the motion
flf Mjeetment was put and lost ; wben, on motion
•rUr. Giles, tbe bill, together with the Mesxage
«f th« PKRMDntT relalire to this subject, and tbe
COMPENSATION Of Cl^BKS.
Mr. W. Bnitb, from -the committee appointed
ti> confer with the Seaate on tbe lubjeci of their
disagreeraeni ou the hill regulating toe compen-
.Mlion of clerks, reported that the committee on
tiu part of that House had receded froTa their
Kmendment, (which wat to allow one huDdre4
4olUrs a year 10 such of the clerks in the office of
the Secretary of the Senate and Clerk of the
boute of Representative! as were employed the
jrboU year.) The House agreed to the teporL
AGENT FOS FOREIGN EXPENDITDRE8.
Mi. W. SiuTB said, that the Commiitea of
Ways and Means bad diiecied him to lepon the
following resolution for the couideiation of the
^ouse:
appinntmeDt of an Agant
Wnd the foreign expendiluna of the United Sutca, if
4he Pnadeat ofthe United StatM ibsU find it uscMn-
itf to employ inch Agent or ConuaiMOiMi."
This motian occasloiied coosiderable debate. It
-ans auerted in support of it, that the Secretary of
Ibe Treasury had stated that such an agent was
.OMessary to transact our money concerns in Hol-
ekod, which was at present done by merchants re-
..saliDg there, who bad an interest opposite to that
■-^f.tbe dniied States. It was, on the contrary,
'Orgedi^hat if such an agent were sent to Holland,
Jm wqnld atill have to employ merchants to trans-
act a biuiww wkh wbicfa be w«b MM^ ■■»»-
quaioted j that it wooU be tbe iaterest of aach a
Power as much as it was to the iotereri of the
Dutch merchaitla to keep up the formgn debt,
(contrarj; lo the wish of tbe Qoremmrat, wbe
were desirous of changing their foreign to domea
tic debt,) because, when tt i*mt dooe away, hia of-
fice would cease ; and that crar Hinistiv at the
Hague might as well transact the bnaaea ntb
tbe mercbanU at Amitertiam as any pencm aaol
for that express purpoM.
The motion was negadTCd ; and then Hr. Ma-
con moved that the further cotuideiatioB of this
question should be postponed till tbe first of D»-
cembenneil; which was carried, yeas 4(^ nays
35, as follows :
yiu.r-Tkaadetns Bailay, Abnhaa BaUirta, I.em-
aal BentOB, Nathan Bitm, SauBri J. CiML Tha-
■Da* ClailHmM, Isaac Oc^ Janaaiah Cntah, Bamoi
Eatle, W^liau Fin^, Jesse PrsoUm, Wil^ B.
oat*, Jann Gilla^u*. Aiubmr Gt^g. WilhMi B.
Grove, Wade Hamptiui, Robert Goodloe HaiiMi, Jaba
Hathom, JonBthsn N. Havens, John Heath, Dsnial
Heistei, Janea Holland, Auon KUcheU, Hatthea
Locke, Samuel Maday, Nathaniel MaocHi, John MA-
iedfe, Andrew Mnora, AntbcMiy New, John Nidiola^
Prands Prerton, John Richaida, In'mel Smith, RtiJwid
Elprigg, Jr., John Svaawick, Zephaniah Swift, AbH-
Imn Tatom, Abraham VeeaUe, John WilliaiDa, and
Richard Winn.
NsTB— 'Thomas Blount, Benjemiii Boutna, thoOfU-
Ids Bndbaiy, RkhanI Bient, Jeebns Coit, Wm.Caepo',
OeoTia Dent, Abial Foater, Dwigfat Foster, ABwtl GaBa-
Ma, WiHkm Hindinn, John WiOaa KiaeM.ianMa
WiltiBBi Vaae Hunay, J<du Bead, a
Nathsnkl Snitlh, Isaac Saiith, WOlian SniAi Tba-
ma> Sprigg, George Thatehw, Rieba^ ThooM^ Mad
ThampMMi, Uriah Tiac^, John £. Van Mkn, Wv
Van Carlluidt, and Pel<« Wadaworth.
MILITARY, AND NAVAL APPROPEUT10N8.
On motion of Mr. W. Smith, the Honae re-
solved ittetf into a Committee of (be Whole on
the report of the Committee of Ways and Ueaoa
relative to appropriations for the KOiiarj and
Naval Establishments, and for the paymutt of
Military Pensions, and came to tbe following re-
" Saokitd, That there ooght lo be ajppiiifnalad to
tbe year 1 796, for the Militaiv £itabliahra<mt, iadudJag
the aum already ^ipropriaUid by law, daring Ifaa fca-
sent year, (pilars ; for ^ Naval Dcputncnb
doUaiSi and fi>r the Milita^ Pennon^
Tbe House agreed to tbe fenaluitm, aad tlw
Commiitee of Waysand Means were dinaied t«
bring in a bill accordingly.
OONTE8TBI> ELECTION.
The House took up the consideration nf tke im-
port of the Committee of Eleciioos oo tbe paa-
tion of Matthew LroHiComplaiiiingof an aadae
eleclioD and return of UaASi. Smite ; asd tbe
chairmui 9f tbe cgmmiltee o&iiog a v '
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litfS
HicTtmY or CeNOia3S8.
1466
OMt tf tk* UnlMf Akttw.
fH.o
D tbe HooM dMlkruw ihc ■laetioD rvid, oi^ mo-
kN), tbe deciaioii erf tb« Howe wm poUponed till
AHT DARDIirs H0R8e.
On motion of Mr. Claibobrh, the House form-
>d itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
■eport of the Committee of Claims oa the peti-
:ion of Amy Dardin, who prayed for compeaya-
lioD for a rery valuable horse which had heen
mpTeased during the war. The report was a^insi
lie petitioneT, on the ground of the act of Iimita-
fion barriti^ the claim. The case appeared a hard
me, as a undow and orphans were m want of the
oooney; and several members having suggested
that application bad been made before the act of
limitation took place, jiroof of which could be sub-
stantiated, the Commillee' rose, and the papers
were re-cummitted to the Committee of Claims.
BATmiDiT, May 28.
The bill for wtisfyiag the claim «f tbe repce-
■entatires of the late Bajon Steubep wu read the
third time and passed.
Mr. SiTBaEATEs r^rted a bill to anlhoiize the
Pbbsideht of TaxUHiTBD Statu >o cause to
be located one mile sauare of land at oi near tiie
mouth of the Great Miami titbt, teaerved out of
tbe grant of John Cleres Symmes; which was
twice lead, and ordered to be engrossed for a
third readiiig to-day, vhicb it aAstwardn reeeived
uul passed.
Mr. W. Smith, fi ^
and Means, reported a bill making prarision for
tbe Military and Naval Kilablishment*, and for
other purposeaj which wu twica reful, and order-
ed to be committed to a Commictcfi of the Wbole
A Message was receired in writing from the
pBESiDSifT informing the Houm liiat a further
appropriation was necessary for tbe au^iort of
foreign correspondence. An estimate accompa-
nied tbe Message, by which it appeared that up-
wards of %iZSMi would be wanlod, in addition lo
what had already been appropriated. The Mes-
*^e was read, and tcfeiied to the Committee
ofWays and Means.
A message was Teceived from the Soate i
forming the House that the Senate had come
a resolution to anthorize the President of the Se-
nate and the Speaker of tbe Houu of Represent-
atires to close the present session on Wedneaday
next, the first of Jane.
CONTBBTED BUOnON.
Tbe report of ibe CommiMee of Hleetions, to
whoaa was reeommit'ed the petition of MaTrnsw
Lvoa, eomplaiaiiig «f an undue eleetion and re-
lara erf laaaSL Shith, for the State of Vermont,
1 Ntolnti<« to the adoption of the
g Hr. BMiTn not to be entitled to
kis wat, wee takea np fi>r eoosiderattoa. The sit-
tia^ menbcr spoke at eonaideraUe length on the
*at|(et, giriat bis reaaons why the election should
Mt be MI aside, and Mr. Bwiir replied, explain-
ing ibe motive* wbfah had tnflueBoed the decisi<»i
rf *e C— ine» of Uteiicww
that this BUbjecl be postpone
till Monday to take up the matters in dispute be-
twixt the Senate and that House, which wan
agreed to.
DEBTS, 0? THE UNITED STATEp.
Mr. Galuitim, from tbe commillee appointed
I eonier with the Senate on their disagreement
req>ecttng the bill providing for reriaia Debts of
the Doited States, reported that the committed
on the part of that House had agreed that a mme-
ty of the six pet cent, stock to be created shonld
be sold under par, if necessity required it.
Mr-SwAHWioc said, he was ever disposed loagiee
with the Senate, when he oould do it with propria-
ty; bat he never woaldconientlomnetionaprin-
ciple which should auihorize Ihc Helling of ilx
per oenL Qovemraent atock al less than par. The
report of the CommiUee allowed the Commission-
ers of the Sinkii^ Pond to sell two and a-balf
millions of that stock under par, and, therefore, he
could not vote for it. And, as he believed it was
a moot imperiBat question, he hoped hei4iDuld be
indulged by the yeas and nays being taken upon it-
Mr. Gtleb said, he should vote against concur-
ring in this report. The provision, he ^id, foi
sellinff the Bank stock, was merely nominal, for
he did not think it would be sold. It had been
said that two miHions would satisfy the Bank for
the present ; if this was so, (and it bad been ser-
etat times asserted on that floor) tbe Commission-
ers being empowered to sell one half of the six
per cent, stock helow par, there would be no ne-
cessity for having recourse to the Bank stock.
There was another reason which had bean
strongly urged by the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania, viz : that if the six per cent was not allow-
ed to be sold under par, it would bo the intereat of
moneyed men to purchase it, rather than suffer the
Bank stock to be sold. He thought the accom-
modation an unwise one, and should therefore
vote against it. He was of opinion, That, rather
than have sold the Bank stock, there would have
been means found of disposing of the six pet cent
at par.
Mr Qallatin said, so far as his own feelii^
went, it was with great reluctance that he agreed
to this regulation. It was proper their situation
should be understood. They owed to the Bank
of the United States, to the Bank at New York,
and to Holland, five millions of dollars, for which
no provision was iqade. It was necessary, there-
fore, there should be an effective power given U>
borrow this money. He bad hoped the Bank
would not have required the whole of the money.
This he had before saidj but, whilst they insisted
upon theirmoney.it was the duty of Government
lo pay them. It was not only theu duty to pay the
Bank, but that institution would, at all events, be
raid ; for the revenue of 179S, which came in the
Treasury during the present year, was ajreadf
appropriated for that purpose, and the Secretary
of the Treasury woufd be under the necessity M
payinir them out of that fund, if provision be net
made m ■ different way. It had been said tbe
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HISTORT OF CONOHSSB.
I.arR.J
OdtU of the United SUatei.
[Mat, 1796.
3ank ww willins to reeeiT« a part or the moDey
only at preseat ; out of this they had no official
ioforauLion. The Committee appoiDted to cdd-
fer witb the Senate; hare uken some paios to iD-
qaire into this lubject, and a gentleman in the
Senate (who he believed, was a Director of the
Baak,) had informed them, that provided the
Back stock waa not sold the Bank wonld be satis-
fied with two and a-half millions at present ; but,
if it were to be sold, they must have the whole
amotuit paid them. This waa the condition ; and,
not thinking it right to agree to anv condition of
that sort, they iiad made provision for paying the
whole, viz: one half by the Bank stock and the
other half by the six per cent, stock, under a sup-
position that the Bank stock will at least sell for
<Hie hundred and twenly-five. This, he said, was
the ground upon which the compromise took
place. They thougbt it heiter to do this than agree
(D sell half of the six per cent, stock ubder par,
and take out the claose which authorized the sell-
iog of the Bank stock, as they thought that pow-
er vestid in the Commissionerii might be a. means
of eetling the full price for the six per cent, stock.
U this accommodation had not taken place,
Mr. Q. said, the -bill would have been lost, and the
Bank must have been paid with the revenues
which would he wanted for paying the current
expenses. Whatever diSereace of opinion there
might beamoogsl them, they must agree in *^"
e thought it best to come to thi
condiliob. It would be a lesson to them, in fu-
tore, he trosled, to raise a revenue equal to their
wants. Upon the whole, he did nocbelieve they
could make any belter condition witb the Senate.
They had agreed to it, and be hoped it would be
adopted.
Mr. Nicholas said, he had objections to telling
the sis per cent, stock under par ; but, his ubiec-
tioDS were in some degree lessened by one naif
the quantity created being only sold at that price.
and that the remainder of the debt due to thii'
Bank was to be paid by a sale of the Bnnk stock ,
as this would have an operation to keep up the
price of the other stock.
But how did they stand 1 The Senate and that
House were parties to My a third party. We can-
not, said he, say to the Bank we will not pay you,
except you will be paid in a certain manner. We
must pay them in a manner to whicb they cannot
object. They had, therefore, been obliged to agree
to the present accommodatioo.
He snould wish that the United States should
Hecareanot bow much they suffered, that they
might be induced to leave tHetr present trifling sys-
tem of taxation, and have recourse to one that
could be relied upon. He saw no alternative but
toagree to the present report. That House was at
Yariance with the Senate, and if they tost the bill,
they might get a worse, lor the Committee from
the Senate wished to get rid of their own amend-
ment. It was the opinion of the Senate that the
Bank stock ought not to be sold, but that the six
of a majority of that Hooae that the Bank Mode
ihoald be sold, and only ao much of the othar as
would sell at par. However, some agreemoii was
sary, and the present was the b^t thej could
>. He should, therefore, vote tar agreeing to
the report, though he disliked the mode lo be
adopted in payin? this debt.
Mr.N. declared he bad no enmity to the Bank;
his whole object was to raise money on the best
As to their connexion with the Bank, if
.. ot a good one. it was not the fault of the
Bank. Government, he said, was under obliga-
tions to the Bank ; he thougbt the L^'slature on-
ly to blame for having agreed to the connexion.
Mr. CoiT said, ance they were fite mitlions in
debt, it was necessary it should be paid. Gentle-
men who were opposed to this mode should pro-
pose another, which ibey thought bet irr. If tocT
owe five millions, two millions of Bank slock will
not par it, it was necessary therefore to sell a
pari 01 the six per cent, stock. Bat the objection
was that that stock wXsto be sold under par. But
if it would not sell at par, and the debt most be
paid, and it was our duty to pay it, vhat remedy
was there? He saw none.
Mr. W. Smith said, he wt>s not displeased widi
the present discussion, because he bad no doubt
that -gentlemen who lamented so pathetically onr
bein^ in debt, wonldfeel themselves under an ob-
ligation to bring forward and support tame effec^
nal measures at Ibe next sessfon for Taiaing more
efficient revenues, and for discharging our debts.
it did not follow, he said, because the six pet
cent stock was permitted to be aold below par, if
necessity required it, that it would be aold under
par. He hoped it would not Aod he said, if
they were, on this occasion, under the oecrisity
of selling this stock under per, be saw no reason
for so much squeamishness ; tbey had fieqnently
purchased their own stock under par.
Oenllemen had, on a former occasim, fWi no
apprehension of the Commissioners of r&e Sink-
ing Fund selling the Bank stock for less than its
vuue, and they need not fear thattlie six per cent,
stock would be sacrificed.
He thought the bill a good one now, were it not
for the clause about the Bank stock being ia it. He
wished the conferees had sirock it out.
Mr. SwANWicK said, if he thought as the goi-
tleman last up appeared to do, that the eitablub-
meot of the princmle of selling Qovemmeni stock
under par, would nave no injurioae effect upon
public credit, be shonld not be ao firmly onMsed
to itj but, because be thought the quesboa big
witb alarming danger to tbu country, ht riumln
continue his opposition to the mcasaie. What
was the system eattlbliahed 7 They paned a nan-
ber of laws, authorizing money to be bonowed ai
six per cent, and autborizing the Bank to lead oe
those terms ; but when the iBank is to be paid tber
come forward, and offer for sale nock beari^ n
interest of six per cent, at any price under pi-
What a dangerous principle thia as to any ehnct
of obtaining rerenUefor tne Qormunixmt i JHoi-
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1469
HISTOBT OF CONORfiSS.
1470
Hat, 179&J
DtbU ^ tAe {/njletj SUiUi.
[H.i>rB
ben wodM alinr> pus loan biUa with great ea«e ;
bat ir the; were to ta; taxes they would look
more sharply aioand them. No one teemed to
think with so much dread od boirowingas on tax-
But it was taid, we were obliged to give this
power to .pay our debb ; but, would any Ion sub-
tained at present discourage Government from
again goine on with the same system 1 The ease
with which money wasiiarrowed, he feared from
the neglect of some and indolence of others,
would retard taxation. U would be in Tain that
the gentleman from South Carolina called upon
genUemen to bring forward systems of taxation,
or brought them forward himself, whilst borrow-
Ttras encouraged, and so much in v<wue.
id the Bank require fire millions ? He believ-
ed not They had been told on this floor thatthey
would have been nlisfied with two millions.
When he was sa little squeamish about Bank
stock, it was because he knew il must and would
be sold above par and of course to a profit.
By the insertion of the clause for selliug two-
and-a-half millions of nix per cent, stock under
par ihey made the selling of Bank stock unneces-
sary. And what an enormous power dit) they
propose to give the Commissioners of the Sinking
Fund 7 He was not jealous, he bad no reason to
be so; but suppose ihtaslock was sold at 16 or 17*.
in the pound, what would be the consequence ?
The gentleman from South GaroUna pretended to
make a limitation with respect to Bsnk stock, bat
now notfain(( was said of limitait<m, as to the Uni-
ted States SIX per cent, stock that might be sold
Much had been said abonl eomity and friend-
•hip for the Bank. He shoald aay aothing on
that head. The qnestioo was, whether dteyahnuld
give aaoction to a new principle in fiuioce ; to
this power of passing six per cenL stock through
the milll If It sho^d be bo deterti>iaed, bemnst
submit, though be should think thenwasare a
very bad one.
Mr. KiTcHBLL asked, if there was no way of
modifying the expression "shall be sold tioder
GtV He did not like the manner of it, though he
lieved he must vote in favor of it , bat he wish-
ed the phmseolt^ somewhat altered.
Mr. Haveks said, that he should have consider-
ed the compromiM which had been proposed by
the Committee of Cooferenee between that House
and the Senate, a* less exceptionable, if it had
been agreed that one-half of the mtmeys which
were to be raised for the payment of the debt due
to the Bank, had been propwed to be raised b^ sell-
ing the stock intended to be created by the bill for
what it would bring in the market, and the other
halt by the sale of Bank slock to oe disposed of
'in the same manner ; but the compromise which
bad been agreed u^n by the Committee, eontem-
eLted no such thmg; they had agreed that one-
If of the six per cent, only should not' be sold
under par, and ihe other half was to be sold for
vhatever it would bring. Tbi^ he considered as
a total relinquisbmeot of the olyect irhich was
conteiQplafed by tbe anaemlment of the Satata,
wfaieb was to tell the Bank stock. Two mitlions
and a half of six per cenL stock were, by ibia
proposed modification of tbe bosiness, to bis
brought into market and sold for what it would
bring ; and, if this were to be done, be doubled
much whether it would sell for more than 16«. is
the pound. This he considered as a very great
loss lo the public, which ought, if possible, to ba
avoided. He did not think that the irredeemabi-
tity of tbe stock, which had been one of the pnv
posed conditions upon which it had been created,
could be considered as addiiv much to its present
value ; an irredeemable qnaHiy annexed lo stock
could be supposed to add much to its value only
in such c ire um'stB aces as where there was plenty
of mmey to be borrowed, and, comparatively
speaking, but few persons to borrow iL This waa
not the case at present, as must be evident, whn
the Qovernment was driven to tbe aeeessity of
giving an extravagant premium for money, by
sellioK their stock under par. For these reasona,
he did not believe that soereat a quantity of stock
offered for sale at once, would bring more than what
he bad mentioned. He had made a computation,
by which it appeared, that if the Bank stock were
to bcsold for no more than £114 per cent which
was much above par, it would be equally advanta-
geous as if thesii per cent, stock were lo be sold
al seventeen shillings in the pound, admitting the
Esent value of Bank slock was .£133 1-3 as had
n stated. He was persuaded that the Bank
stock would sell for more in proportion than six
per cent stock, because individuals would be iOf
clined to purchase it, by reason of its giving them
a better credit at the Bank, and enaoling them,
theiefore,<o bMrow money there with more facil-
ity. This must, therefore, keep up the price of
Bank stock above the six per cent, stock, and to
sell it musc, therefore, be a more adrantageona
mode of discharging the debts of the Government
It did not appear to him, that the reasons which
had been given by those who were opposed to Uw
Bank stock, were well-'ouoded. It had been said,
that this stock was very valuable. If it was, Utea
there would be less loss in selling it. He coold
not persuade himself to believe that it would ba
any disadvantage to tbe Govemmenl, if they wen
not to be stockholders in any Bank; he did not
doabt but that the Government would be enablod
at all times to obiaia loans, by tbe way of antici-
pation of its revenues, or on any other condition,
from the Bank of tbe United Sutes, or from any
other Bank with whom it might be thought pro-
per to deposite the public moneys^ on the g>ro(utd
of its general t-redit, without havina recoune to
the scheme of bein^ always stoefholden in a
Bank to procure credit. Tbe reasons which madl
it advantageousfor individuals to hold stock iita
Bank in order to obtain credit, did not apply (o tbt
Government, as was evident from tbe ease tbaa
under cuuideration. Il had been likewise lu^ai
as a reason why we should agree to the proposed
compromise with the Senate, that they wooU BOt
agree to any other modification of the bill ; in an-
swer to that he should only My, that tbe >ama
argomaat qti'^t be urged m tos Senato with ■#
;dbvG00gle
«ifi
KSTOKr OF CONGRSfia
1413
H-wlL]
iWl« of Ute IMted Atate.
[Mav, tTBt
amch pniprielf to induce them (o agm to tbe
opmion of ifae House of ReprCMDtaiiTet, m it
•ould be urged there to induce riiem to agree lo
the opinion of ibe Senate ; on a qsestioa of com-
jnomiM the reaioBtDg BkUHt apply equally lo both
Houes. He «aid, he had hererofore auppOMd,
4hat there esistedaome ui^[eiit necesnity for the
Ebllc to make eoDiiderabk Mcrifices, in order to
eharge this debt; but he now adopted R differ-
«ni opinioD, and what had operated wetf power-
Inllf upon hia miiid to ineliDe him to tfau cban^
ot •eutimeol w«s, th« motion which had been
■Mie by the genileman from South CBroliua [Mr.
W. ShitbI whra be had propOM^ that the Bauk
Mack tbonfd not be wM far leM than £133 1-3 per
cent. He preanmed that gentleman spoke the
IwigVBge oreouttltvd th« tnterMU of toe Bank
fa naakioff itet motion, and that, iberefore, the
Bulk «>ud not cougider tbesMclves u stendingin
■ny mat ne«d of the money, if they were tu]will-
aWBt tbe Mock of tfce Oorerament should be
, unleu at co bigh a price, when tbe nODey
a ariaiog i
IS lo be apjdied to diteharri
■■Di oua ID (oem. It appeared evident 10 ^:ni,
ftoK thai drouBiatanee, that tbe Baak must view
it ae IsM diMdrantageooB lo them to continue
ik«ir credit to the Goremment for some time, than
to have the OovMnmcnt sto«k sold in order to
discharge the debt ; he tberrfore concluded, that
tf the biU were to be lost, aad the subjeet were to
be again taken up at the aext senioa of Congress,
itwonld bca matteratteoded wittino public in-
«ODreai«noe. For theae reuons, he should there-'
fcre Totc amiBM tbe report of the Committee.
Hr W. Xth AM said, it appeared to him. that
if thit bill pawed, giving pt>w«r to the CtomtiDiiion-
ars of the Ajnking Fund to tell one half the six
^r «Mit. stock at what tfa«y oould gel, the Bank,
wbo wanMd the whole five Taillioni, would first
lak* the on* half at per, and then purchase the
otkarei a low pnce, as being more thao an over-
Mat^ for any eompeiilerwhomighteomeagHiitst
ihem, so that no part <tf the Bank stock would be
•old. As to the obBervattons of gentlemen who
aiad th^ were bound to pay tbe money, since the
Sank required it he woold ask whether, if they
4mre obliged to pay the money, they were oMired
•lao to part with their judgments, because the Se-
■Me did ac* choose to accede to ibe plan Ibey htd
<giwd upon 1 The doelrtDe of beinc obliged lo
4* a thing, heeauee the Senate would not do so
Ud ao, was too often araerted in that House. For
kis part, when he wa« conriiiced he was right, he
WMild neTer reeede from his opinion. He would
4lsi«gBTd the proaeediiigs of the Senate ; and,
If tbey would not do what was rigfal, they muel
k» MMweraUe f« the consequences. He was
•Bk«»«d of such arguments as these. He believ-
vd'tke Bnale woirid agree, if tbey were to adhere
Wtheir amcBdmenls. He beliered that if ifaer
ftwMed the Bank stotA to be sold, and as much
at riM other as could be sold st par, ample provis-
ia» would be marfe j he therefore, abenld not agree
«i-the Brcwnt bill. A gcnileaian fron Virginia.
(Mr. H«0BoL4e] bad said, he abonld rote for it
<Ba«kaUiMntteM«f ourMlyt if 4t ««« ntri for
with this riew, he heliered the and woM tie «■•
tainKi, because he believed the Unileri Siaiea
would tuCei great loss from a paym^i of tbji
bind.
Mr. W. SutTB woutd not have risen again, if
he had not thought the gentleman last up had
misunderstood the business. He bad said, it was
in the power of the Bank to take the Mock at
twelve shillings in the pound. On the contrary,
Ur. S. said, tbe Bank conld not take any pan of
the Mock nnder par. Thenr were restricted br their
charter from bnyiM Mock, and tUa bill only gave
them the power to lead tbe wbi^ of tbe fire mil-
lioM, and to subacribe it, hut it muM be at par.
Tbe geotleman's idea of adhering lo bis own
opinion, would do very well in a GorernaieBt of
only one branch, bat was not mitcd w a Gavern-
mant of two, wfaaiever the other b«Bcfa 4*d, he
says be wom abide by his opinitm. Buppoae the
genileaMB knew for a certainty that tbe doctrine
which he supported would not ne agrcvd lo ia Ibe
Senate. One branch irf the <3overDateot miijkt
insist upon its opinioa, and tbe other upoa tbnrs,
and nothing wonld ever be done. Tbe ftah, is
this ease, would lie npon both, for waat of an ae-
commodaling spirit. The geMlemaa said the
tmendneatpropoaed woaM prevent ikcBanknoek
from being told ; if it would produce that (Act,
be abouM tiocerely rejoice.
It was not. Mr. B. said, as the sentlcBa) frooi
New York [Mr. Havbnb] had stated it, became
he was better acquainted with tbe wkfae* of the
Bank than other gendemen, that be proposed At
ameadmant he alluded to. It was not beeaaae be
knew more of tbe disposition of the Dirccton
than other gefltlemen; bat he mntowB, be wonld
rather sell the six per eenl. stock uader par, tbaa
■ell the Bank stoek at the preaem pnee. The
gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Swaifwiccl
thought it would be more adTaaiageoo* to aeU
Bank Mock under par than six per ctut. bat be
was of a Jar difierent opinion for Ibe reasons be
had before detailed. He hoped the repoN waoM
be agreed to.
tS.,
carried— yeas 45, nays S5, a
Till. — Fisher Ames, Beinamin Bourne, Tbeodl&oi
BradbniT, Joriina Uoit, Wilbsni Comer, Oeai|e Dent,
SsbiimI Karie, Abtvl roster, DwigblPwtcr. Albert Gsl-
Jsfen Both, Dsoml Heistai, 1 _
Uan BiaAnn, Avon KiicbaU,Mui Wakaa KiUwi,
Saaari Ljaaaa, Juasa Hadiwn, FiaMot MaBaaiv
John MiUedte, Fnloiok A. MabUafavK. Wm. Vtm
Mniraj, Jehn Na^nlas, Joba Read. J<An BiAud^
SsJDud 8itBnav«a, Jeramiah Snilh, NatUwd Snui^
laiac Smitli, William Smith, Thomas i^paB. Znha-
niah Swift, Geo. Thatchtr. Maik Huut^aoa, Ufiak
TrscT, John E. Tan Allen, Philip TsnCon)aiute,Pcl4
WubwDrtb, and Jobn WiUiama.
N.rs^ThoodDrus BatJey. Abraham BaMwia, Da^il
Bard, IifltnusI Benton, Tbomu Blount, Richard Bitnb
Nalhin Brjvi, Sunual J. Csbell, Oabrial ChiuW
'HKuntsClaiiiome, Isaac Celea, Jeremiah Crabb, Wil-
bm Pindtn, Joaas FVarddia. wIBiaiD B. CN)«, Jama
tiuisufhar Oraaanp, WiUua Bai^ Srsw,
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m$
ffifflMWr OF OONCmBBK
t<M
Uifr,i7yen
Aivtiitim q< 7>iitf— .
tH^wB.
JuwaHeUud, Q^angt Jadwn, MatAn* Looka. Wil>
UuQ Iijm^B, Suniul H«ckT, Nathuiiel Maoon, Ad-
diew Moore, AntboDr New, Robert RQlherfbiU, Urael
SmUh, Riohiid Sprigt, ion^ John Swanwiek, Abraham
Tenable, aD<]-Ricluunl Wiim.
ADMIBBION or TBNNBSSEB.
Mr. GiUBH. from iha committee to whom was
referred the ^11 from the Senate for erectiQg thr
Territacf South of the Ohio into one Stale, and
for diMctingaoenioi to betaken; aUo, thereaolu-
tioB of the HoUH of lUpresepiatires in &vot
of admiliiDg that Terriiory as a State into (he
Union, and the Message from the Pbebidbnt on
the tame subject, mue a report This report
wem to change the principle of the bill from the
Senate, and. consequently, occasioned considerable
debate. The House of Bepresenmtires contend
that the proceedings of these people had been so
lar r^nlar, as to autborise the admission of ihem
as a ^le into the Union ; but, by the bill sent
from tbe Senate, it was proposed to lay out the
Territory iato a State, and order a census to be
taken, before they could be admitted. Tbis rer
port of the committee conformed the bill to the
opinion heretofore expressed in tbe House, The
report was supported by Messrs. Giles, NicflO-
UkB, Madison, Gallatin, Vek«blb, W. Lvh&n,
and Holland. and apposed by Messrs. W. Shitb,
SiTOHKAvBs, Thatcbeh, Coit, and Habpkr.
On motion of Mr. W. Shitb, the yeas and nay*
were taken three times upon this subject : first,
upon the first amendment, which went to alter
the principle of the bill, hy admitting the State
ijjio the Union, instead of directing a census to be
taken for tbe purpose. The yeas were 46, nays
30, as follows:
Tiu. — Tbeodonis Baiky, Abraham Baldwin, David
Bwd, Lemnsl Benton, Thomas Blonnt, Bkfasrd Bient,
Nathan Brfan, Samuel J. Cabell, Thomas Clatb*me,
Isaao Coles, Jeremiah Ctabti, Samael Eaile, WilHam
Findk;, Jcwe Franklin. Albert Gallatin, William B.
QilM, Jani«« Qilleawe, Chhstopher Graent^, William
B. OroTa, Wad* Hanpton, Geotga Hancock, Cartar
B. Haniaon, John Hathom, Jonathan N. Havens,
John Heath, Dsuiel Hairier, Jamea Holland, . Oaorge
Jackson, MiHhew Locke, William Lyman, Samnd
Maela;, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Mil-
knel Soiitfa, Ridiaid Sprin, jon.
John Swwnridi, AlMlom Tatom, Philip Van'Otnt^
landt, Abraham TanaUe, and BiidiBrd Winn.
Nat*. — Ben^in Botnna, "nMopbihiB Bradbmy,
Jodm Gwl, WilUsm Cotraer, Geo^ Bent, Abiel
Foster, Dwight Foatoi, BiekiBi Gilbert, NUboIsc Oil-
man, Bmrj (Hen, Channct7 GoodriA, Rosar Gri»-
wold, Robert Ooodlee Harper, Wllhan Hindraan,
John WiUua Kittara, Samuel Ltumu), Franda Mat
bone, WillialD Vans Murray, Samnal Sitgreaves, Jero-
mUli Bmiih, Nathaniel Smith, baac Smith, WilliaBi
Smith, Zepfaanish Swift, Oeoige 'RuttcheT, Msik
ThompaoD, Uriah Tracy, John £. Van Allen, Pelsg
Wadswoith, and John WiUismi.
Th« next amendment was the introductinn of a
elaaae necognising tho light of that SlaM to sand
one RcpreaeatatiTe i
I tlMt Honae, until the
ext census all orer tha
, and that the lews t)( tbe United Stales
should ha*e the same force in the State of Ten-
nessee as in all other parts of the Uaiw.
Mr. Macom mored to strike out one Repre-
sentative and insert two Representatives, to which
he thought they were entitled.
Tbis was opposed on all sides, as giring an ad^
vantage to this Stale over all other^ whose reprtt'
senlation was fixed in the year 1790. The yAM
and nays were taken, when all the membert iff
the Honse wei« in the negattTV except M«MTa.
FnAMici.iiT^QimiMv,H(iti.Aini, Uaoor, and Bn
TBBRroan, and the motion was, therefore, k)Mt
62 to 5.
Mr. W. Smith called for a division cf the qM*«
tion, and that part relative to the State being en^
titled to one Representative, being put, it wm
carried by the reas and oaya being taken, 41 to
29; the House being divided in the same wayM
upon the first amendment, except that Hestrs.
Baldwin, Brent, Colbs, Oilubpi^ HancooI^
Hbatb, and Wink, who voted in the t&nutirt
on the former question, and Mr. Boiir««, wtto
voted in the negative, were, on. this divisioD, oat
of the House.
Tbe other part of this Maendraeat wM canted
unanimously, and the bill was ordered to be «w
grossed for a third reading on Monday.
MoNDAT, May 30.
On motion of Mr. W. Ltkan, the resolution of
the Senate, commuaicated to toe Hoase on Sa'-
lurday, relative to the adjournment of the two
Houses on Wednesday next, whs taken up, and
agreed to, and a committee appointed to Join it
'-ee from the Senate to notify the Piii»H
THE United States that the two Honsffs
intended to adjourn on Wednesday next.
The bill entitled an act for the admission of the -
State of Teonessee into the Union, was read the
third time and passed.
NEXT MEETING OF CONGRESa
Mr. BoDBHs observed, that a motion had alre»i
dy been made, and negatived by a small majority
for appointing a committee to bring in a bill fax
altermg the time of meeting of the nest sessioii
of Congress. He believed the business which
would call the attention of the House iii iheipf
next session, could not b« got ihroagh betwixt ihf.
first Monday in Decemherand the third of March,
parlicularly as they sliould then have to deter-
mine upon uome eSectual mode of taxation, in ot;
der to meet the necessary expenses of Govern-
ment. He, therefore, proposed to the House the
following resolution :
" Sttolttd, That a oommittse be appoialad te r«|K«|
a bill Cir sJtning tlu time of neetini of the aait star
This resolution was opposed by Messrs. NiOBV
LAe, Madison, and Maoon, and advoeated bf
Messrs. Bourne, W. Smith, Thatobh, Wibr
LiAMB, Claibobhk, and RnrBSBFOBD. Il wu
cearicd, there being lfii*&Tor ttfit.
;dbvG00gle
14T5
msnroRT of gonoress.
H-ofR.]
MiHtofy md Nawd Apfrt/priatioM.
[UAT.iTse.
A bill wai «nertrardt reported, twice read, and
ordered to be engroucd for a third reading (o-daf.
Il ailerwards received iu third reading, and pau'
ed. The time of meeting for the next sestion wai
tixed on the first of November.
ADDirroNAL APPR0PEIATI0N8.
Mr, W. Smith, from the Commiitee of Ways
and Means, to whom waa referred the Message of
thePBESiDEHT relative lo additional appropria-
tions necessary for foreign correspondence, report-
ad (he following resolution :
" Sttoked, That ■ fqither rain of VafiM be appio-
■riaMd bt the axpensta ot fbiaign interoonrsv bi the
jaar)7»e."
Also, a bill making further appropriations for
&e year 1796. Tbebill and resolution were read
a second time, and cMnmitted to a Committee of
tha Whole to-day.
lin.ITARY AND NAVAL APPROPRIATIONS.
The House went into a Comiiiittee of the
Whole on the bill providing appropriations for the
Military and Naval Establishments; when.
On motioD of Mr. W. Smith, the blank for the
iom for the payment of the Army waa fiUei) with
•873,666.
lb. W. Smith jmipoeed to fill up the next
Uaak, for the subsistence of the offieen of the Ar-
my with $68,480.
Hr. Qallatin said, he was not ready to vole
for this object. It had been usual lo appropriate
the aubsiitence of the officers and noa-commis-
sioned officers and privates all in one sum. He did
not know what were the separate calculations.
Mr. W. Smitb believed that it had been usual
to put the two sabjects together heretofore, but
the Secretary of Yttt had suggested the proprie-
ty-of placing them under different heads. It wai
IhereRiTe done.
Hr. Oallatim said, when he objected to thii
|iUn of putting the two objects together, it wai
not merely on account of the arrangement, but
becanse he did not know the amount calculated
for the different descriptions. He knew, howi
the rations were calculated at 30 cents.
would move to flit tbe blank with 20 cents, which
would be two-thirds of the amount proposed. He
would give his reasons for thus filling the blank.
It would be fouad, by a eommnoicatioa front the
Elecretary of the Treasury at the commencement
of the session, that, in the estimate for the Mili'
ry department, rations were charsed 15 ce
each, making the whole subsiitence for 6,000 a
$307:061; notwithstanding the nomind Army
BsteUiahmeat had been reduced one-biLir, the
total amount of expense was eslioiated as high as
before. The items upon which an increase had
feMD made, were subwstence, hospital, ordnance,
and qtiartermaster's departments, and protection
of frontiers. It would be found that, in the second
ealimale of tbe Secretary, lately made, rations
were estimated at 30 cents each, which made the
whole amount of subsistence $437,708.
Thia difference in tbe estimate led the Com-
Mittc* of Ways and Heass to an iaq niry into th«
business, because, as the nominal establishment
wa» decreased from 6,000 to 3,000 men, they had
hoped there would have been some decrease of
expense also. They received for answer, that
rations could not be contracted at Detroit for lest
than 30 cents each ; but though this, by tbe con-
tract, was the price of rations at thai poat, they .
could nolsuppose they would cost the same at the
other posts. It also appeared, from (he iiifbrma-
tion received from the Secretary of the Treasury,
that the contract which had been made, waa upon
these terms — to fnraiah rations either at Detroit
at 30 cents, or at Pittobnrg at 11 cents, the place
oi delivery being at the option tA OovernmenL
It would be seen thai there was a difference be-
lt those two prices of 19 cents ; and he would
whether any gentleman in that House be-
lieved that it would cost 19 cents per ration to
titmsport them from Pittsbu^ to I>etroii1 He
did not think that transportation would, oo so
average, cost S cents. The distance by land was
not 200 miles; and water carriage wcnld reduce
it 10 30.
Il was his opinion, therefore, that they aaght
not to make this appropriation. It was irue,
there was an increase in tbe price of provisions
in the Western country, but it was not less true
that the rations must be delivered at the prices
contracted for. If the gentlemen on the com-
........ ,. ^^^ ^
ed by the gentleman from South CnroliiiB. And
this was calculating the whole as delivered at
Detroit, thoueh it was well knowa many of then
would be delivered much nearer. He believed
the expense of transportation to Detroit woald
be less than to most of the posts now occupied by
the Army between the Ohio and the Lakes. Tel,
under the idea ol their being delivered at the
posts now occupied by the Army, the ratroos bad
been estimated at 15 cents; bat now they were
told they will be charged SOcents. The informa-
lion he had given was correct, and^ tbatfon, he
should move to fill the blank relttire to the sob-
sisience of the officers, with 45,606 in the place
of $68,480.
Whilst he was up, he would mention another
reason. It would apply, also, to the rations of
non-commissioned officers and soldiery ooc-thiid
part of the estimated Bm<^t of which will be
proper lo be deducted, if iiis motion was carried.
He should not have been anxious about this mat-
ter, but for one thing. He would lemiod the
Committee of a letter which had beea irriliea bj
the Becreurv of tbe TreasuTv 10 the Conaitiee
of Ways ana Means, in which it will «|^ear that
although tbey bad made specific appr*»tiatioiH
for eacn head of expense relative to tbe Uilitaiy
Establiahmcnt, yet,those appropriationshadbKB
considered as a general grant for that departme oL
[Mr. O. read the letter alluded to.] l^e conse-
quence of this was, he said, that if more wv
granted for any parlicolar purpose than was se-
ceswrjr, the surplus might be expended for acf
other Item in the Military BstabtislinaeDt ; tbei*-
fote, when $7(^000 were voted for the Indiui de
.dbyGoogle
HV
mSTOBT OP CONGRKSS.
i4rt
MiUtarj) and Naval Appnpriatioiu.
[H. or a.
Crtoiect, il the Bxeeutive wauud to Wplf s
met lum for tbit purpose, they thjoght thejr
haaa ri^bt to approprifile to it anf «xce*s of ap-
propriaiJOQ berond the expenditure for subsist-
CDce, or anf otner 6f the itBoii for which more
might hare been roted than wai oeceasarr; ao
that there was no check to the expenditure, ex-
cept the aggregate amount of all the moneys ap-
Sropriated ibi the Military Establishment, and,
>r that reason, he hoped his motion would be
Mr. W. Buira aaidr if agreeioK to this motion
would sATB the money, it would deserve atten-
tion } but, if they were to make the appropriation
10 small as to embarrass Gbvernment, it would
be much worse than if they were to vote for a little
too much. There would be a certain nnmber of
men who must be fed^and he thought they might
rely upon the Adminiatratioa's not giving mote
for rations than wns Decessary. Bat, if the sum
TOled was too small, what would be the conse-
quence 1 The rations must be eot, be the P^'^^
what they may ; the men must be fed. DilBcul'
ties would arise if the fund appropriated should
prove inadequate. He did not see that there
would be any real saving by reducing the sum
appropriated.'
11 was true, Mr. S. said, that, in the first
mate, the rations were estimated at 16 c(
hut, in the report of the 18th of May, they are
estimated at 30 cents. In ecmsequence of this
difference, the Committee of Ways and Means
had a conference with the Secretary of War and
the Secretary of the Treasury on the subject, and
they stated that 30 cents per ration would be as
Iowa price as they could M delivered for at De-
troit ; if the Gommitlee think differently, or that
those officers had some improper object in view
in raising the sum beyond what was necessary,
they will reduce it. He took this item from the
Secretary of War, and as he received it, he pro-
posed it. He was not, himself, acqnainted with
the price of rations either at Pittsbnrg or Detroit.
He belirred tbe^ must, to a certain degree, dft-
pend upon the officers in the detiartinentsTor such
matters of detail, who would not, he trusted,
wantonly require too much; if they were not to
appropriate enough, the money mast still be ex-
pended, if wanted ; he did not see Ihe neoeasiiy
of cramping the ExeculiTe in all its operations ;
becBuse, if there should be any abuse of the pub-
lic trust, by prodigal expendiiores or otherwise,
thoce who were guilty of mal-practicea would be
always liable to aeteeiion and punishment.
Mr. BouBna hoped the blank would be filled
op with the sum propoaed by the gentleman from
Elouth Carolina. It had been stated that ratioiu
might be purchaaad at Pittsbnrg for 11 cents, but
ihvf could not bo bought for less than 30 at De-
troit, and he thought they could not calculate up-
on any other price than that, as it was uncertain
whether or not the contract would be fulfilled ;
uid if it failed, and the Seeretary of the Trea-
sury was obliged to purchase at Detroit, if they
calculated the ratioiis at 20 cents only, he would
bm be able to parvluwe the neecMary pronsians
for their men; hut if, m the contrary, 30 cents
were agreed to, there would be enough in anr
case, and if the ration could be bon^l for 30
"tits, he did not fear that the money would be
upended unneceisanly.
Mr. Vbhablb said he should not feel himself
justified in appropriating more than was nece*-
sary for the object before' them ; for, if they
were not to be guided by a proper estimate, they
might as well at once give an unlimited pcfwer
on the Treasury. All the expenses could not be
entimatcd to be made at Detroit If one-third <^
our men were kept at Detroit, he should think
it a large number. Why then fix the price as if
the whole Army was to be kept there 1 And,
even in that case, 20 cents would be a large ap-
propiiaiioo. Why, then, embarrass themselves
by making a larger appropriation than was neces-
sary? The Army would be extended on the
whole frontier, and at some places rations would
be bought cbe]iper than si Pittsbarg. '
Mr. Datton (the Speaker) observed, that the
gentleman from Pensylvania [Mr. QallatimJ aa-
sumedas undeniable, and estanlisbed as the foun-
dation of bis argumenu and objeeiiotw, what he
did not only not admit, but absolutely denied,
viz: that the rations of proTisioDs would cost the
United States more when delivered at Detroit,
than at any other post. He believed there wen
two or three others at which the price would be
higher than at Detroit, and mentioned Michili-
macinac in particular. The gentlemen who
were for reducing this item of appropriation, had
referred to the contract which had been made
some time since, and had, at the same time, ac-
knowledged the extraordinary advance m the
price of the necessaries of life, eren in the inte-
rior of the country. The latter event, said Mr. ■
D., was of a nature to excite much fear that the
contract would be thrown beck upon the United
Stales, owing to the inability it would create in
the iadividuala to fulfil it, and ought, therefore, to
prompt Congress to guard against such an exi-
gency, by a more ample provision than would
otherwise have been requisite.
The member from Pennsylvania had expressed
much wonder that the appropriations were not
reduced in exact proportion to the reduction of
the Military Establish menu Did not that mem-
ber know that by the middle of the ensuing
month the streams become so low as to rendu
impracticable a transportation by w^ter, and com-
peT them to resort to that by means of paek-
horses 1 Was he not aware of the amaxiag dit
ference in point of expense between a water and
a land transportation, and siiU more so, where, as
in the latter case, horses only, and no eatriagei
could be used?
This inconvenience and expense would have
been avoided, if Congress had passed thelaw.and
made a provision, as they might very wdl pave
done in the earlier port of tne session, in time
to enable them to take advantage of the swetliog
of the rivers, occasioned by theBpting rains; but
it was now too late, and the expense of laud
transportalioD must thenfine be ptovided A>r,aad
;dbvG00gle
Mft
nsTOHir OF coMQioaiK
ILwH.]
Mmtarr aid NJKnt'ApfmpfmkHt,
^tbrt,rr9^
e rsKf ftff beTODd thai of any
fiwm«r y«t*. There was anoiher Dnuaual and
atmardiDarf wmrcc of iacrnue of ezpendilurKi
in the UilitairdeMttmantwtaicfaBeeiiieiltohitiL
Hr. D. Baid, lo be not at all attCDded to. The
tnoapoflatioii to the posts of tbat henvier kind
of otdiMDCe which was ealcolated for g:aiTiMnB,
together irith Miiabte KRiiniffiitioD, implemetm.
and BtoKB. eTcry oae must koow that the field ar-
tiUeiy attached to a moriee Army was Dot proper
foe a garriaoD ; and thai iT it would even amwer,
the DiwberwidquaBtitr with the Army waarer;
Su loo ouilL Owing te the inoieued labor, ex-
Wtiou transpottatioii, and charges of different
liia^ ID taking pOBMoion of the posts, and in
Biarehikg the troop* lo their diSerent and disiaoi
deetuations. be bad fomeen that the appropria-
tioDB fot the Department of War could not, in
this ]war, be dimioiabed in pn^rtion to the dimi-
Btilica of (he Milinu'T Es(ahli*bmenL
Hr. W. SuiTB eaid there was one fact whieh
ke foTBol lo mention. The Secretarr of the
Treaaurv intermed the Coamittse of Ways and
lleasB Ual the o0Btr»etOT' would leee money by
■he ooDlracI to deliver the rationa at 11 cents at
Pitieborg, and it wm possible, thetetoie, that
it B^ght not be folfilled. Oenilemen sty— why
pronde the money if it be not wanted? They
teemed to mistake the businen; the money waN
te be twrrowed, and if not wanted, it would not
be taken. No iD<Te would be expended becatue
iherc mas more than suffii^ent appropriated.
There would he nomoney lying unemployed in the
Trcatury.
Mr. Q&Li^TiH believed the gentleman from
South Garolioa [Mr. aMim] wonld not deny
that his information -nras correct. The contract
in* HMde Id deliver the raiiooe either at Pitts-
burg or Detroit, at the optiiMi of UoverDRipat.
To calculate the whole nnmber of rations at 30
B«D|«, w«s considering the whole Anny at De-
troit-, and. tfaoBgh it be true, that there be oae
poet more distant than Detroit, yet, the Renter
Mmber were ftr newer, and consrauently, where
provieions would Ik got cheeper. Therefore, con-
ai4eriag the priee at Detroit to be the gneral
fiiea, VM Rawing too mnoh. This, he believed,
iMsld not be ooatroverled.
Let w than eumine, wd he, what will be the
■riee al Detroit. The prices at Pitubntg, they
kad seeM ma 11 cent*. He had fully attended
t» mlml tin ^■■■'^■■■^a ^'^"'^ ^'^ Jersey [Mr.
Djlvtoh] had snggeiled, that eenversnee cooM
Bot always be hadby mter, uid therefore it vn*
ibM he *Hwfred 9 e«iito for cODveyaoee, for ibe
tttioH wmikl ttot ceet mote than 8 ceMs etoh by
Mr. O. said there could be only one objection
•o the aUowaace of 30 cents per r»iion, which
was, the poMiUiity that the contract which had
been iMde night not befalSlled. But, be said,
if they were to make appropriattons on eeniin-
nneiee ot this sort, he did not know how far
they mig4it go ; (key might suppose other events
to tftke place, wkict^ at present, could not he fore-
■in. Ha Ibiwtte « ooiUnut solemnly made
might be depevrfed upon. B«^ ifuythwdf ddt
sort was to be provided for, it sbouM t>e oimc mt-
de* the he«d <n coittiDgeime^ and not i«der Ae i
present head.
He was not afnUd, he said, of th« offlccn at
the Treasury giving 90 cents fbr nithns wbicfc
could be got fbr 20; and if the mene^ tkey wrc
about to appropriate was to be eonsidered *s ■
specific approprtaiiOD fbr that purpose, ha riioDld
Lbiok leaf of il. He should have no objection M
allow 25 or 30 cents per ration ; bat, when the
Secretary of the Treasury t^d Aem that all
these appropriations were general gnnia, nod thM,
therefore, if there were ^00,000 loo much onder
this bead, it might be appropriated to any Mher
object mentioned in the bill.
He asked what control they bad over the ap>
propriations for the On arte rtn aster's depart'
ment, Indian department, or proteetion of fnw-
tiets, bat by iimiilng the sum. which could not
be done if they were to appropriate too lavishly
for otber objects, became the ove^pliu migM
tie applied to any of [heee. It waa on that ae~
count, pritwipelly, that he wished to confine tbe
present appropriation to what waa Decenary.
Hr. NioBoi^s said, he should be glad to know
what was the price of rations in the Atlantic
States. One half of the Establishment wonld be
upon ibe Eastern waters, and, tfaerFfore, the
ney necessary lo tte appropriated 'woutd depod,
in some degree, upon the price of rations there.
He thought 30 cents would Dea fall avmige price
for the whole.
Mr. Hateks said, tbst if they were to fix At
price too high, it might prodnee a eocnbinatioD
anonsst the eoniractors to advance the price — as
he beheved there was a greater likelihood of com-
brtMliOB than competition amongst tbem. He
knew this was no reason why tbey Aetild fix ibe
price tea hnr, but he thought it waa a caosidera-
tion which diotiU lead then to vote for the pnv
position of the gentleman from Penneylvania.
Th« Original motion was put, and negatived, 3*
to 31 i and ifaen Mr. G«li_itiii's to SI tbe lOaak,
with 946,606, was put, and cartM.
Mr. W. Smitr moved to fill the next talanh, for
the B^wstmce of non-eon mivioiied offieen tai
privates, wi ih •366,288, whkh wu caloiflatiBg the
ratioiM at 30 cents each.
The question tnspot, and ne^tivvd, 33 to X.
Mr. QALLA-mi thes racnwi to have the Uonl
filled with |Mfl,18S; which wma c^lriaUng the
rations at 30 ecH> eaeh.
Mr. DaTTOK ho»ed that the ssm mmed wonM
not be agreed la-, tf' it were, he beKevad thai the
soldiets of the A rmy wovld not b« subsislad^ H*
was satisfied that gentlemen wbo proposed and
advoeated so seanly and inadeqaote sraoshad the
same views as be had; b« he was, nevevtbeleo,
convinocd, thit so far fmm pronotm^ eeeaumy,
they would everrtnally produce proftwioB.
He had before swid, that in conseqaeBce of the
late great rise of provisions, a.fulfi1ment of the
eoutract,made with certain individuals, cmld not
confidently be relied upon. He knew, tut in the
eoae at fatloM^ the OovansMDC ooald ]
lyGoogle
BMSIIOKf OF €QN)QaBSa
14tl
MAt, HMJ
iiilflttry <Mw* tfiwi iliywpriaMai.
[£L<wB.
and TMOTir d>nwfeB from tha Motrachns ; hut,
vbtbt the proKculion wai going oo, the Army
naiMt Mt, sad tk« pnUic mnat sniHitr them with
food Bt tnj price. Who would mt, that aa
the apdr of the ocouion,, the public ageiitit
thw rnddenlr sent ftHt, could parchue la-
lioBt Bl orncv Pitltburg, at 11, 13, or eren 13
oentsT What member cotild, with his present
■ofonnatioa, caloolate and state the prices which
would be a^ed, and must be girea, for horses to
carry the burdens when the public call should be
thaa preaatng, and people might kaow and take
adraat^ ^ the oeceasity 1 Who at them could
fitrma just ju^ment of the expenses for boat and
betteaox building, iriten tbef should reach the
Lakes, whsre no timber was prepared, nor hands
Mttled aiid established to build iWn 1
In short, be nid, a new scene was opening to
their view, in which they had not the oenefit of
aiperieace and ot previous experiment. Some
gentlemen seemed to take it for granted that the
corps of artillery, and mott of the infantry, would
be stationed and inbsisled in (he Atlantic Slates ;
tHit be rather supposed that foor-fifths of the in-
&ntry, and iwo-lhirds of ihe artillery, would be
diuiened throughout the ezceotive frontier posts,
and not long allowed to sleep and eat on the
Eastern side of (he mount&ins.
It had been hicted, in the coarse of the debate,
(bat the appropriations should be more specific as
to the immediate object, but, in his opinion, an al-
teration of that kiua might operate a
::n
prialioa so strictly to the article itself, that
provisions or teats of the Army should be de-
stroyed by flood or by fire, they could not be re-
placed, but the Army must remain without any
covering, eren though there should be a sufficient
■urplus or saving from other articles?
It was a bappy circumstance, that, in all snob
cases, there was a liberty of discretion given to
make use of tbe surpltia arising from any other
appropriations under the same general head, to
supplr such an^tpected wants. Although (he
calculation made b^ the gentleman from Peon-
aylvania was manifestly incorrect, he believed
that no member could draw and present an accU'
rate estimate of the stuns which would be wanted
for this service, aod therefore they were lel^ to
eonjeeiore only. Tbey ought, tberefpre, to make
a liberal appropriatioD, becaase no mote would
be used tban was wanted, and not one cent more
would be unnecessarily expended) but, on the
other band, if it should prove inadeqtiate, the
Army mast abandon their posts, and march back
into tbe country where provisions were produced,
to obtain them more certainly and cheaplr. This
woald not only not be desirable, but would be dis-
graceful.
Mr. D&TTOH eonetnded with saying, that bedid
not Irish to appropriate lavisbly, bat his sole aim
WKM lo avoid any of iboae serious conseiiDeiicea
which would inevitably flow from an ill-judged
parsimony ; and he should sit down and console
hi meelf, under any event, with the reflection, that
he had discharged hi»duty.
4tb Com.— 48
Ut. W. Bhith moved to fill the OaA with
•360,000, which wa* oarried, 84 lo 31.
Ob motion of Mr. W. Snitr, the bkak for fat-
age was filled with tl6,&9S, and that for clothing
was filled with ipOjOQO, withont debate. He pro>
posed to fill the blank for providing horses fbi ca-
valry, witb |7,G00 ; when
Mr. Blodjit observed, that he thongbl it uiui»'
cessary to provide for the purahase of bones,
when they had resolved upon tednoiug tha nimibat
-' troops.
Mr. QAU.&'nii said he would just uotioe, fkmt
when the full number of horses werekqpl np,thB
appropriations for elotkinc were the sauMasnav,
■ booe for b<nMs werolesa. The fonaer esli-
wasta,«»forhoraMt now, t7,&00 ; «o thai
lore tbey reduoe the Army, the gteaicr wu
Mr. Macon btlieved there were asmasy horses
>w in the service as would oom{^tetwo eois-
panies, and they could not, with any firapriety,
calculaie upon one-half dying. He moved tv
strike out the item altogether.
The motion was put and negatiTed.33toS6.
Mr. Havenb said, he did not vole lor striking
out tiie item altogether, as he supposed some
money would be wanted, but could not thhik so
much as had been mentioned was necessary.
The motion for 97JW0 was put and earned, U
to 31.
On motion of Mr. W. Smith, the blank fn
bounty was filled with $10,000, and that for Hos-
pital department with |30,000, without objec-
tion. He also proposed to fill the blank lar the
Ordnance department with $48,907, when
Mr. OsLLATiN said, that this sum was (11,000
more than the former estimate ; $1,000 of wbioh
was owing to an increase of rent. Tbe other ad-
ditional item of $10,000 was for con tingeit expan-
ses I but, as they had a distinct head ibr coniia-
gent expenses, he tbotigbt that the contisfencies
woald be best, all a! them, placed under that
head. He therefore moved to have the blank
fiUed with $38,907.
Mt.WiLUAiie prcqjosed $40,000, which was
Mr. W. SMrra proposed to fill the blank far.ltv
Indian department with $70,000.
Mr. Qali^tim said, it would be reeoUootad that
they had already made two approprialioas under
this head ; the oae tat estahliabing trading-houses
with tite Indian tribes, .the other for carrying into
effect several Treaties. On intjuiry what rea-
son there was for this appropriation, he cotiU
only find one, viz: that a Treaty was expected
to be held in Qeorgi^ at which 3,000 Indiana
were to be present. He had supposed thia ex-
pense was to hare been borne by Ueoi^iia, but it .
was alleged that a pvt of it would fall on the
United Stales.
The motion was put and negatived, 33 to 26;
when
Mr. W. Sm-rH proposed $60,000. He would
mention, that the Secretary of War bad been
called upon to give a reason why so large a
sum should be a^ropriatedi when thejr were
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1483
HISTORY OF GONGRBSS.
H.orR.]
ARUiary and NaocU Appropriatiau.
[Mm, 1796.
told of the Treaty which the fientletnaii from
PeDDsylTBnuL had mentioaed, and thai it would
be accessary to have a large store for ihe purpose
of feeding and clothing the IndiaQB who at-
tended it. The motion waa then put end carried,
31 to 28.
Mr. W. Smith moved to fill the blank for the
Ouartermastet's department with $250,000.
Mr. Oallatik said, it would be remembered,
that in the estimate at the opening of the session,
this item was calculated at |200,0Q0. The rea-
son given for thit advance, wsg, that the expense
of remoTiog stores, ordnance, Ac., to new posts,
would be very considerable; but, it would be re-
ccdlected, that ^200.000 only were appropriated
for that purpose in the time of war, wnen the Ar-
my was liable to be removed very^ often. The
present estimate was for a Peace Establishment,
when their men, once removed to the new posts,
would be stationed ; and the appropriation, in-
Mead of Tor 6.000 men, was now only for 3,000.
He moved to insert t200,000, instead of $350,000.
Mr. Blount said, he supposed the taking pos-
session of the posts was contemplated when the
first estimate was made. It was then known the
British bad stipulated to surrender them on the
1st of June.
Mr. W. Smith said, it was not certain when
the first estimate was made, whether thai House
would have ratified the Treaty ; and, if not n
fied, the posts would not have been got. The
creased calculation was owing to the expense
in transporting ordnance, stores, Sk., to the
posts.
Mr. Isaac Smith i^aid, it would require i
cannon for one of those posts, than were required
by all the Army.
Mr. Blodkt said, they liad had sufficient proof
to lead them to believe, that the PaEsiuisNT did
not think that House had the power mentioned by
the gentleman from South Carolina, and, there-
fore, he doubted not but the first estimate was
made with reference to the expense of taking
possession of Ihe posts.
The motion for £250,000 was put and nega-
tived, 31 to 26 i when $200,000 was pnt and car-
tied.
Mr. W- Smith moved to fill the blank for con-
lin^Qcies of the War Department with $30,000 ;
which was carried without opposition. He
then proposed to fill the blank for the defence
and protection of the frontiers with $150,000,
Mr. OALLATm said, he certainly wished the
frontier to be protectea, but he could not think so
large a sum necessary for that purpose. The sum
last yearappropriated was $130,000; andnowwe
had peace with the Indians, which was secured
not only by a Treaty with (hem, but by Treaties
with Great Britain and Spain, he could not 'ac-
count for an increased expense.
The motion for $150,000 was pnt and nega-
tived; $130,000 was then proposed and carried, 34
to 33.
Mr. W. Smith proposed to fill the next blank,
for the completion of the fortifications, Ac., at
Wert Point, with $80,000.
Mr. NicBOLAB inquired if there was any lawoa
this head?
Mr. W. Shitb said, there was an act to author- .
ize a provision for this purpose, but that act had '
expired. He believed, however, it might properly
come in there. This expense, he was told, was
necessary to make the posts tenable, and that if
no money was expended, the fortifications would
be lost. He believed this item might propeiiy
be considered as a part of the Military Establiah-
Mr. Nicholas said, he did not object tor the prO'
Sriety of the expense, but to the manner of intro-
ucing it- It would apply to New York as wdl
as West Point. He considered the admission of
West Point as the admission of a principle lo
which all the surplus appropriations might be ap-
plied. All the fortifications, he said, were in the
power of the Executive ; but, as they bad had a
Committee appointed on the business, whose re-
port they had considered, he thought tkey shoold
act consistently. He therefore moved lo strike
out the clause.
Mr. WitxiAUB hoped this item would not be
struck out, and that tne Fbssioent would be en-
abled to extend aid to the fortifications at New
York ; if not, the works would go to dec».
Mr. Van Cortl.andt said, that fortiocatioiis
ought to be attended to, and that he should vote
for them.
Mr. Giles hoped the motion woold prevail
There had been a Committee most of the session;
to consider the subject of fortifications. If these'
fortifications stood in need of repair, the Pacsi-
DGNT should have given the information to that
Committee. He thought the item improper in
the present bill.
Mr. Gallatin believed the gentlemen from
Virginia were mistaken. The Committee which
had been appointed was to consider the fortifica-
tions of our harbors only. The works at West
Point were of a difierent description, and the es-
timate included not only the completing of the
fortifications, but th,e building and repairs of bar-
racks and stores which bad been destrc^ed. The
present item could not extend to fartiacatioas in
general, as had been appteheoded ; for. ihotigh
the Secretary of the Department does not con&ne
the money appropriated to one object — to that
particular purpose— yet, he cannot expend it ca
any object which was not contained in the act of
appropriation. He moved to add, " magazines,
storehouses, and, barracks." Agreed to, aad also
the sum.
Mr. W. Smith then moved to fill the Uank
for the fortification of forts and harbcKs with
$50,000.
Mr. Gallatin said, this item he should nuive
to strike out. A committee had been appolated.
and Itad reported on this subject, and thatit vrasno:
necessary to attend to it at present, as there was
a surplus of $23,000 unexpended. If they ^vere to
agree to the present sum, it would be appropiia-
ting an additional sum of $50 000 for the same
object; he hoped, tberetore, tnat it would be
itrock out.
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
148«
BaAir,I796.]
Military and Naval Appropriatunu.
[H.OFR.
Mr. W. LiTMAH was in faTor of striking it out.
Mr. Williams hoped it would be agreed to, on
the gronud of the uecessily of some ailention be-
ins paid to ihe works at New York,
Mr. Daytok was in TaTot of strikiog out this
item altogether, as there really was not monef to
spare for objects not esspoiial. If any particular
harbor had been, or could be mentioned, the Com-
mittee might better be enabled to judge whether
it would M fit, at this time, pressed as Ihey were
for resources, to make an appropriation for forti-
fyioK it, aad bow much. But, as he knew of none,
and oeheved there were do such, he should cer-
tainly be opposed to appropriating a single ahil-
ling for this puipoae. He meant not Co say,
that there were not ports in the United States
which might be advantageously fortified, but
odI^, that this country was not yel in a siiaaiion
to justify their encountering sncb an eipeose, es-
pecially as it did not appear to be immediately
necessary.
The motion for striking outwss put, and car-
Mr. W. Sm:th moved to fill the blank for
the pay of officers, seamen, and marines, with
♦113,025. ^
Mr. Nicholas hoped this item would be struck
out. It was certainly an expense for which there
was no occasion. He did not wish to see men
raised wben they could be of no service. Tbe
frigates, he said, could not be fit for service be^
fore tbe uezi aesjion. He hoped, tlierefoie, no
opposition would be made to the xtriking out of
the clause.
Mr. W. Smitb said, they had authorized by
law the building of three frigates, and it was wish-
ed that they should go into service the present
year. If the whole sum was not appropriated,
there would certainly be a necessity for a part
of it.
Mr, Nicholas moved to strike out the item as
it stood, and insert, '' the pay of the captains of
three frigates,"
Mr. AIacon believed these were the only offi-
cers at present appointed.
Mr. Havens wished gentlemen to say why
these captains should be paid at all. He believed
that building of- ships was not ttieir business, and
that these places were at present mere sioecures.
He should, therefore, vote against the amend-
ment.
Mr. W. Smith said, it would be niicessary to
add subsiateoce as well as pay of three captains,
and moved to 611 the blank with five thousand dol-
lars ; which, after a few observations, was agreed
[Q.
On motion of Mr. W. Smith, the blank for
military pensions was filled, without opposition,
with til 4,259.
The Committee then rose and the House ei
ed upon the consideration of the amendments
which had been made, when all were agreed to,
except that relative to the subsistence of the non-
commi.'.sioned officers aad privates.
Mr. Gam,ati:< moved to strikeout three hun-
dred and sixty thousand dollars (which had been
agreed to in a Committee of the Whole) and to
insert two hundred and forty six thousand, tme
hundred and eighty eight dollars, the amount of
— tions al twenty cents each.
After a few observations the motion was put,
when there appeared for it, 32, against it, 31, wben
the Speaker declared it not carried.
It was then moved to insert three hundred thou-
sand dollars, instead of three hundred and sixty
thousand dollars, and it was carried, 36 to 33.
Mr, Gallatik moved to strike out the words
"empowering the Prbbidbht to borrow the^e-
cessary money," &c., and to insert six hundred
thousand dollars. He mentioned his reason. They
had provided for the payment of all the anticipa-
tions which bad been obtained from the Bank and
he wished to have some check on that head in fu-
ture. By an official letter, it appeared, that there
was a deficiency of one million, three hundred
thousand dollars betwixt the receipts and expen-
ditures of the present year, four hundred thousand
dollars of which sum, to wit : tbe instalment due
to Holland had been provided for by the late bill
for p«yingthe Bank, which reduced the deficiency
to nine hundred thousand dollars; ihev had also
given power to borrow three hondrea thousand
dollars for tbe purpose of foreign intercourse; this
would bring down the sum to sis buiidred thoB-
saod dollars. The words which he moved to be
struck out had always been used heretofore, be-
cause the anticipations had heretofore been con-
tinued from year to year; but now, having pro-
vided for them, it was not necessary to give any
further power to borrow ilian for the deficiency
above mentioned. He would observe that tlM
Commissioners of the Sinking Fund bad alr«ady
power, in case the revenues came in too slowly,
tottorrow every vear one million of dollars. He
hoped the amendment would therefore take place.
Mr. W. Smith did not believe it absolutely ne-
cessary to retain Ihe whole ; he was therefore not
anxious about it. As the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. GallatinJ had slated there was an
apparent deficiency of one million, three hundred
ibousand dollars ; thai is, the probable expendi-
tures would fall short of the probable receipts bv
that sum ; four hundred thousand dollars had al-
ready been provided for by the bill for the pay-
ment of certain debts of the United States ; the
deficiency was, therefore, reduced to nine hundred
thousand dollars. They had authorized a loan in
the bill for providing for foreign inlerconrs^ for
three hundred and twenty thousand dollars, which
deducted from the sum last mentioned, would re-
duce it to five hundred and eighty thousand dol-
lars ; but there was a further sum of twenty-three
thousand, five hundred dollars to be appropriated
for foreign intercourse, which must either be add-
ed, or a loan singly authorized for it ; h« tboo^t
it nest, in order to include coatingencies, to make
it six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Mr. Gallatik had no objection to six hundrad
and fifty thousand dollars; which was agreed to.
Tbe bill was then ordered tobe engrinwd for a
third reading to-day.
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H.orR.]
Exptiut (/ F\>rtigit IniercouTwe.
StJKDBT BILLS.
Tha SoMte'iuaeBdmeKts to thebiU for proyid-
iig paatpoTU foi ahipi and TOMela of llie United
Biatet, were taken ap and ureed to.
The ameidniciita of the Seoate lo the bill for
Mvpending the tax on uiuff irere takm up and
dingreed to, there being only eighiem ^ikmen
in imtot erf' tbem. They went to a Teriral of the
tax, and. instead of allowiog hx cents pet potmd
diawbacK, to allow one halfcent per pound.
The aniendinentsof the Senate to t^e bill regu-
I lUing thogranta of land appropriateJ fur military
I acrrica. &e~ were token up. They were, on rao-
I don, referred to a lelect committee, who afler-
midi made a report, recommending it to the
HiHue to agree to all the amendments, except the
I bat. The smmdmeriia agreed to went to change
Ae plot of laad appropriated. The amendment
dingrced to, waa one which went to the striking
0Bt of the elaOM allowing thoK officers and
toldlers who have already located their warrants
In a certain district of country, to remain upon
the land so located and improved.
• Hr. VB{tABU,from the committee appointed to
ooDfer with the Senate, on the sabject of dis«Etee-
ment between the two Houses on tbe bill for
suspendiDg the tax on snuff, reported that the Se-
nate bad receded from their aiaeod meats.
The amendments of the Senate to tbe bill for
defrayiogi the expenses of trials duriog the late
iasurrectioD, for regulating the allowance lo wit-
Benes, jurors, dtc., were read and agreed to. The
Senate struck out the marshal, and the clause
relative to the district attorney of Kentucky, and
Mraok one dollar out for an additional allowance
per day to witnesaea, and inserled fifty cents.
The amendments of the Senate to the bill limit-
ing the time for allowing a drawback on domes-
tic spirits, &Ct were agreed to.
' The disngreemeuc of the Senate to a part of
bill for admitting the State of Tenneasee into the
Union, was read. The House insisted upon their
amendment, and a committee of conference was
appoJBted.
FOHEIQN INTERCOURSE.
■ On motion of Mr. W. Switb, the House went
into a Committee of the Whole oa the bill mak'
iag farther appropriations for foreign intercourse
for tbe year 1796, in consequence of a Message
raoeived from the FaEaioEHT, with an estimate,
which, amongst other things, contained the ex-
pense of replttciog two Minuters Resident at Ma-
-orid and Lubon by two Ministers Plenipotentiary,
when he moved an additional section to this ef-
feet:
" That there be further appropriated towards
defraying the expenses of foreign intercourse, a
•um not exceeding S3,OO0 dollars, in addition to
the sums already appropriated."
Mr. Nicnoi^a wished to know the use of this
additional expense. He did uot know why we
should send different ministerial eharactersabroad
from those we have at present. He kjew of no
oecesstiy for ibis increased expense, and he did
not think it eould be justified. Perhaps he was
wrong in objecting to it ; but it appeared lo lum
an unnecessary expense, and therefore an impto-
Mr.'W. Smith said, he had no other infoima-
tion than that contained in the Mes^ee of the
Pbesioeut, which bj on the table. This Mes-
sage bad been referred to the Committee of Wap
and Means, and they bad brought in a report la
conformity to that Message. Ifgenttemen were
satisfied that the Pbesidemt bad not the power to
advance the grade of oar foreign Ministers as ap-
peared to him ^necessary, they would probably
withhold tbe appropriation. But he believed no
gentleman could tay what was necessary in this
respect, as well as the PnEaioEHT himself.
Mr Qallatim had no doobt but the PREaioENT
had the power of appoiuiiog Ministers, Ajnbas-
aadors, &c,, and tbey had no control over that
power but that of appropriBtion, which wai ■
gocd security against the abuse bf the power, as
withoutan appropriation, such appointmeo Is could
not be carried into effect ; and it was proper, be-
fore they made an additional appropriaticn of
IS/KM) dollars, which would become an snaual
expense for an additional grade of two Minister)^
that tbev abouti know that there was some rea-
son for the advance. He thought tbe eenilemen
who had hitherto resided at ^reieu Courts had
done their business very well, and ne sa-w no rea-
son for this additional expense.
Mr. Habper believed the Minister we now bad
at London was a Minister Plenipotentiary; and
whatever we might think of the distii^ciions be-
tween Ministers Plenipotentiary andMinisters Re-
sident, however childish and unimportant it might
appear to us, in the Courts of Europe it was a
thing of consequence that Ministers of a proper
grade were sent to them. The Courts of Madrid
and Lisbon doubtless thought tbemselresasmuch
entitled (o respect from this country as the Court
of London. Their Ministers Resident, he believed,
were not treated with on any important bnsiness;
when a Treaty waa to be negotiated, men of
higher nak must be sent to them. The Presi-
dent waa therefore the proper jedge of what was
against the clauae moved by Mr. Smith ; t>ut on
that gentleman's requiring the Committee to be
counted, it was found there was not a quoiuai;
the members without the bar being called in, and
the matter beiug again stated, there apmrared 28
for the clause, and 28 against it; the Cbaitmaa
decided in the aSnoative.
The Committee then rose and reported the bill;
and two motions being made, tbe one for taking
up the consideration oTtbe amendment, and the
Other for adjournment, the latter prevailed.
TuESOAY, May 31.
The bill for making appropriations for the sap-
port of the Military and Naval Estabiiithixients fw
1796. was read the third time and passed.
The Senate informed the House, by their Se-
cretary, that they bad resolved that the bill aa-
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msTOKr OF coupmsss.
1W
liAv^im]
Exjumte of Fm*ign fntercoisne.
[Ho
thoTJzii^ the Secreiary of State to lease cerlaia
salt springs io the Norlhweaiern Territory do not
pass; that the bill auihorizinK aD ezperinieDt !□
obiBtn ao unilbroi ptiociple (or the rerulatiag of
Weights aod Measures be postpooed tiU next ses-
sioD ; aad that they recede itom their ameDdmenta
to the hill for adniidiDe the State of Tennessee
into the Union.
A bill from the Senate providing for a raore
Eoeral promulgation of the laws of the United
ates, aad the repealing a former act, was read
and referred to a select committee.
. On the motion of Mr. W. Smitb, the House
resolved itself into a Commiltee of the Whole
on the bill authorizing the Frgsideht or the
United St&teb to lay, regulate, and revoke em-
bargoes during the recess of Congress ; which
was agreed to, and ordered to be engrossed for a
third reading.
SALE OF PRIZB&
An amendment of the Senate to the bill for
Ererenting the sale of prize* in the ports of the
Inited Stales, was read. It was to insert wcnrds
of this efieet at the end of the first section, "pro-
Tiding that nothing in this law shall operate
asainst any existing Treaty." The consideralioti
of this amendment was not gone into, but a mo-
lion was made by Mr. YevkBht, and supported
by Messrs. Mauison, Qiliutih, Qilbb, SwAit-
wicK, NioBOLAS, and W. Ltham, to postpone the
consideration of this bill till the 1st of November
next, on the ground that the meas^ire was not ne-
cessary ; that the cause assignel for it, the proha-
faility of a war between Qreat Britain and Spain
wasnoi likely to happen, and that, as it approached
very nearly to an encroachment upon eijsiiog
Treaties, it might gi've offence to some of Ihebel-
ligerant Powers with whom ihey desired 10 be on
good terms. The postponement was opposed by
Messrs. Bourhe, SiTORBAVEa, W. Smith, and
OiLBBRT. insisting that the bill was a necessary
and prudent measure, in order to provide against
the contiogeQcy abovementioned, and having al-
ready dctenaioed to pass the bill, the ameadment
from the Senate making no difference in the prin-
ciple, they trusted the House would not be so ver-
satile as now to poiitnoDe it. It was, however,
agreed to be postponed ; the yeas and nays being
taK«n, on motion of Mr. W. Shith, stood yeas
40, nays 34, as follow:
niel Heifler, Jamei Holland, George Jaekaon, Wil-
iiaiii Lyman, Sainael Maelay, Jamea Madison, John
Hilledge, Andrew Hoore. Frederick A. Mnhkenberg,
Anthony New, John Nkholas, John Richsida, Robert
Rntheribrd, Israel tjmith, Richard Spri^, ir^ John
Swanwick, Abniom Tatom, Philip Van Cortkndt,
^hiaham VeflabU, and Richard Winn.
Kaii, — Fisher Aam, Benjamin Bonma, Gabriel
ChriMie, Joshua Coit, Williun Cooper, Jeremiah Ciabb,
George Dent, Ablel Fa«lEi-, Dwigbt Foster, EtMA
^beit, Nieboiss Gihoan, Henij Glen, CYmtmeej
Goodrich, Roo^r Gt^wold, Wdliain B. Grove, Tbenaa
Henderson, William Hindman, Samiiel I^ymin, N»
thanial Macon, FtaaciB Halbeiie, Jcdin Read, Sannd
Sitgreaves, Jenaniah Aaith, Nathaniel Smith, laaao
Bnith, William Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Ze^ianlak
Swift, George That<dHr, Kchard Thiaaaa, Mark U^inn^
acm, Uriah Tiacy, iohn S. Van Alien, and Jidw Wa-
LAND FOR MILITAHT SERVICES.
The Senate, by message, informed the House
that thev insisted upon their amendment to the
of conference; but afier
tions, a motion was niade to recede, and carried,
33 to 87.
The Senate's amendments to the bill for the re-
lief of distillers in certain cases, were read ajid
agreed to.
FOREIGN INTERCOURSE.
.The House took up the bill makingfurther pro-
vision for foreign intercourse ; when the clause
reported from the Committee of the Whole,
founded upon the pBEBinENT's Message, being
under consideration —
Mr. W. Shitb said, that objections had been
made to (he advancing their Ministers Resident
to the grade of Ministers Plenipotentiary at Ma-
drid and Lisbon ; the sums requisite in coiue-'
quence thereof, and 20,000 dollars proposed to be
appropriated for the expenses likely to be incarred
in obtaiuiog redress for the spoliaiiCDS commliied
upon the property of our merchants, formed the
objectionable items in the estimate. The objec-
tions urged yesterday, were chiefly, however,
against the advanced grade of the Ministers. To
obtain the Treaty with Spain, there had been a
Minister Plenipotentiary sent to that coUntry;
having made a Treaty with Spain, it would ap-
pear extraordinary to send there io future only a
Minister Resident. He believed it was impossi-
ble to preserve perfect harmony with that natloD,
after sending Ministers Pleuipoieniiar^ to Lon-
don and Paris, unless a Minister of similar grade
were sent there also. Indeed, he saw no reason
which would apply to the former, that would not
equally apply Io the latter. With respect to Por-
tugal, some of the gentlemen in opposition had
been very loud in that House, two years tgfi. In
praise of that country, on account of the friend-
ship shown us at that period ; he believed it wu
of importance to cultivate a good understanding
with Portugal and if only a Minii^ter Resident
were sent there, whilst Ministers Plenipotentiary
were sent to the other European Powers, she
would probably consider herself as slighted. He
was of opinioD that a Commercial Treaty with
Portugal would be an advantageous thing to thta
coanlry ; but, were it only on account of her cotf
genial interests with ns m respect to the Alge-
rlnes, it was desirable to keep on the beat teritli
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
Expense qf Foreign Iniereourte.
[Mm, 1796.
with her. He Ihoughl, therefore, tbu proposition
onght to be adoplM. The Execuiire wis cer-
tainly the best judge of what was pioper upon
mch occasiofu, and the Houie ought to have con-
fidence in bis discretion and judgmeot. He had
Mnt an estimate to the House, it bad been re-
Arred to the Committee of Ways and Means,
Utej bad reported in favor of it, and he hoped the
proposition would be agreed to. He concluded
vita calling for the yeas and nays.
BAt. Macon obserred, that the gentleman who
jtutsal down hid said, that Spain had refused to
treat with this country until a Minister Plenipo-
tentiary was sent there. He should be glad to
know where he had the infotmatioo, as ne had
not before heard of it.
Mi. W. Smith replied, that he had his informa-
tion from papers on the table, which were open
for the inspection of all who chose to take the
tiouble of examiniog them.
Mr. Macon said, the business had hitherto been
done by Ministers Resident, and he had heard no
eomplaints; he thought, therefore, that now when
we were involved in debt for the unavoidable ex-
penses of Oovernment. they ought not to go into
measurea which would increase those expense!) in
every quarter. He was glad that the yeas and
oays had been called for.
Mr. FiNnLEV said, he had voted against this
measure in a Committee of the Whole, and he
thought be was right in doing so; but he now
was of opinion, that, except thai House had in-
formation sufficient to convince them the appro-
Biation was unnecessary, they ought to grant it.
e wished as much as any one to save the money
of the public} but he believed our Government
was, in some degree, obliged to conform to Euro-
pean practices. If we had Ministers Plenipoten-
tiary at one Court, he did not know where to
diaw the line. He believed they should do best
in leaving the Executive to settle this matter.
Mr. Thatcher said, if he understood the busi-
ness, the Executive had appointed two or three
Ministers Plenipotentiary to reside at foreign
Courts, where before we had only Ministers Re-
aident. The reasoning of gentlemen who ob-
jected to this was, that the business had been as
well done by Ministers Resident as it could be
done by Ministers Plenipotentiary, and, therefore,
that these Ministers of a higher grade should not
be sent, because it would cost 18 or 30,000 dollars
a year more. Ckotlemen had said, peremptorily,
that there was no occasion for this expense ; and
if the pBEBinENT had appointed them, they woiild
not pay ihem. He thought this language impro-
per, because he believed such considerations were
wholly of an Executive nature.
Mr. QiLEs said, he should vote against the ap-
propriation. He was willing to allow that the
T^ht was with the Executive to appoint Ambas-
iMors, Ministers, &c. That right liad been exer-
cised, and that House must exercise its rights
alao, by judging of the propriety of all appropria-
tions which they were called upon to make. He
was against all intimate connexion between this
country and foreign Powers. He had always
voted, and should continue to vote, fbr every mea-
sure which would have a tendency to keep na
more retired from European nations ; but if this
business of sending Ministers was encouraged, it
would be the means gf involving ns in European
politics. The true policy of Americans ma to live
to themselves. He would never, therefore, in-
crease any taste which might seem to be advanc-
ing for sending diplomatic characters to Barope.
He thought the present a singular demand. Some
days ago, they had been called upon for an appro-
[>riation for foreign intercourse, without any es-
timate of what was necessarv, and they had ap<
propriated 20,000 dollars. 'The Pkesidekt now
told them they had not gone deep enongh into
the public purse; that they must grant him,
123,000 more. If the estimate had come forward
sooner, he would have given it the consideration
which it required; but,comingasit did. he should
Mr. BoDHNE did not think the question before
Ihem was, whether diplomatic agents should be
sent to Europe or noti the only question was,
whether, or not, the House would appropriate the
money necessary to enable the Executive to re-
place certain Resident Ministers by Minlsten
Plenipotentiary t The pREaiDBNT tvas of opinion
that this was neeeesary to be done; and was it
necessary that he should send to that House all
the papers from wbich he formed his opinion?
He believed no one would insist upon this. The
PRESinENT was the Constitutional agent for this
Eurpose; nor did he believe the framers of the
'onstitution ever conceived that that House
should interfere in the direction of what foreign
Ministers were proper to be appointed.
The gentleman last up had stated that no esti-
mate had been made before the present ; be be-
lieved there was an estimate early in the session.
It was true that it was not specific. When the
appropriation was made the other day for 20,000
dollars, more was refused, because there was do
estimate; the Executive had now sent an esti-
mate, and shall we refuse to accede-to it? This
conduct appeared to him most unprecedented and
extraordinary
Mr. Oallatw was very far front agredng witb.
the gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. BoaRnE^
that to discuss the propriety, of sending a certain
description of Ministers to any country, was un-
constitutional. He believed, before they con-
sented to the expenditure of moner, they should
know that it was necessary; but tbat gentleman
seemed to be of opinion, that, because the Passi-
OENT OF THE UNiTEn STATES asked it, it most be
right. He knew there was a clause in the Con-
stitution which gave the Phesidbnt power to ap-
point Ambassadors, Ministers, dbc., by and with
the advice of the Senate; nor did he care mucb
about the construction given to this clause, pro-
vided that House was permitted to enjoy its n^t
of judginsof the propriety of all grants of money.
He hoped no gentleman wished to deprive theni
of that power.
He believed the House did not seek for the pre-
sent question. A demand was made upon them
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1493
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
M*T, 1796.]
Expente tf Foreign Mercoufe.
[H.OFR.
for money for cerlaio purpose!^ snd they con-
ceived they h»A a right to inqaiie into the neces-
sinr of this additioaal expense. They had appro-
priated the usual sum of 40,000 dollars for fi>-
reign intercourae ; they had done more ; on ac-
count of the present sitoation of Europe, ibey had
appropriated an additional 20,000 doUars. And
now they were called upon for 23,000 dollars
more. He knew if they did not gire it, it could
not be expended. The gentleman from Rhode
Island was mistaken Trhen he said an ealimate
had before been given in; they had received no
estimate before the present; the estimate having
been sent to them, tney had a ri^bt to discuss it.
It naturally brought the question before them,
whether it was necessary to replace our Resident
Ministers with MioisteiE Plenipotentiary, and in
voting on this question, he should vote according
to the information which he had on the subject,
and not ss his colleague [Mr. Fimdlby] proposed,
according to the informaiioc he had not.
The only argument brought forward to support
that we could not have a Treaty with Spain with-
out a MiDi:jter Plenipotentiary. But, be would
ask, whether negotiations were not eutered into
b^ Ministers resident, who were clothed only
with the character of Commissioners ; and whe-
ther the Treaty was not concluded by B Minister
Plenipolenliary to another Court, who went to
Spain for that specific purpose, not with a perma-
nent character, but as an Envov Extraordtnaryl
But it seemed we were to have a Minister Ple-
nipotentiary in Spain, because we have treated
with them, and one in Portugal, because we want
to treat with them. He would ask, what Minister
we were to have in Holland, with whom we had
a Treaty and extensive connexions? It would
appear by (he papers on the table that our present
resident Minister at Lisbon [Mr. Hamphreysl
was to be Minister Plenipotentiary at Madrid
with an addition of $4,500 salary and $4,500 for
outfits; that our present resident Minister at the
Hague [Mr. Adams] was to be Minister Plenipo-
tentiary at Lisbon, with also an addition of $4,500
■alary and $4,900 for outfits i and that there was
no provision whatever in the estimate for any
Minister eiihrr resident or plenipotentiary in Hol-
land. Of bU those things, however, the Frebi
DENT was the Ik ' ' ' ' ■ ■
have mentioned
to them brought thi
that we could not, appropriate more than $60,000
for our diplomatic depaitmenL A deficiency of
$900,000 being officially communicated to them
by the Secretary of the Treasury, they must know
that every sum they voted was an addition to oai
debt. However useful the appointment of Min-
•—'■i Plenipotentiary, he did not feel its nMessity,
r as to justify his giving his vote in ftvor of
an increase of the Public Debt
Mr. HoLLANn said, he could see no necessity
for appropriating this money; and, not seeing the
ssity, he should not vote for it,
r. W. Smith agreed with the gentleman from
Pennsylvania, [Mr. Giliatin,] that they had
power to refuse this money; yet, imdoubtedly,
when the PREsmBnT informed toe Legislature
that such a sum was wanted for similar purposes,
it was the dnty of the House to grant it, tmless
there were very strong reasons indeed to induce
a contrary conduct. The pentleman from Peim-
sylvania nad confessed he had no information on
the subject, yet he would vote against granting
the money. Mr. S. thought the conclusion ^
the colleague of that gentleman [Mr. FiNnLsv]
more just, who said he should vote for it because
he had not information sufficient to convince him
of one thin^, however, that House bad a right to
ige, to wit: (he expense. It may be use? ' "
id Mloisteis Plenipotentiary to those
Courts; but, unless he Qad information which he
had not, and felt what he .did not feel, that it was
necessaty to send them, he must be ^verned in
his vote by the knowledge the House had of the
situation of out finances. Taking that inio con-
sideration, the numerous objects of useful expen-
diture, the many necessary calls for money, and,
above all, the acknowledged deficiency of $900,000
for the current expenses of the present year, he
was clearly of opinion that we ought not — nay.
The gentleman last ap had not positively said
that these Ministers Plenipotentiary were unne-
cessary, but that the Executive had sent no in-
formation to prove that they were necessary. It
was true the Executive had not sent to them the
correspondence which had passed upon the sub-
ject, which had induced him to form the opinion
of taeir necessity. Was it expected he should
have done sol He supposed this kind of inform-
ation was not to be expected ; they must, there-
fore, take it for granted that the Prebident, who
had all the requisite information, was the best
judge of the propriety of the measure ; and with-
out very strong evidence of the contrary, he did
not see bow they conld be justified in withhold-
ing the grant.
The gentleman from Ti^inia [Mr. Giles] had
said it was our wisest policy to Hve retired from
foreign nations. This might have been properly
said al the time they were appropriating money
for foreign intercourse generally; but that ques-
tion had been determined. We had already de-
termined to maintain our foreign connexions, and
now the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Gal-
latin] and the President were at issue as to the
proper grade of Ministers to be employed — the
only question was on the best mode gf carrying
on out foreign relations.
With respect to the estimate, he must again
observe, that there had been a sum of $45,000 at
the disposal of the Executive, which was appli-
cable to the purposes of foreign intercourse, and,
therefore, might have been appropriated towards
this advanced grade of Ministers. Instead of this
sum of $46,000, which was diverted to another
purpose, the House had only given the Elxecutive,
by the act passed, $30^000 ; so that it was neces-
sary for him lo reqmre the additional sum of
I $83,500, A gentleman had observed that it waa .
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1401
fstsraax op cc^ioiinBS.
P-ofR.]
Bj^Moae ef Fortigu bUtnmtrta.
fMa,17a^
not owing to onr not baTing Mioislers Pleoipo-
Ealiary at (he Conn of Spain, but because they
id not the title of Commiuioneis that that Court
lefuwd IQ treat with them. But this waa a mis-
t^^. It appeared from the coiretpoDdence of
the CoiomuBiooen themselres that Spain had
takes nmbnge because a Miaislei Pleuipotenliarp
was not aeai there, utd in ecoseqaeocc of that
Mr. Pmekney was aent with that rank and as Ed-
TOjr Bitraonliaaty. The gendeman had Mid
that the Minittcr residml ai the Hague was to be
temoTed ai Mioisier Pienipoteatiarf to Lbbon.
But what was there objectionable in thai 1 Might
not the PitBfliDBirr, if he thought the residence
of a Minister at the Hague not immediately ne-
cessary^ Bfid, if he wanted to send ime to Lisbon,
to inquire whether the Court of Portugal was
disposed to make a Commercial Treaty with u&,
take him from thence and send him to Lisbon f
MotiTes of economy might lead to Ibis arrange-
ment, which , perhaps, was oQlyatemporaryone.He
oelie*ed it was not necessary that the Fbebidbnt
ahould lay the facts which had induced him to do
fhis before that House. If gentlemen wished to
^re*enl the Pbbsidemt from sending such Min-
isjters (o foreign coantrtes as he deemed most ad-
visable, they would act accordingly, and refuse
fke present appropriation; but, ior himself, be
was sausfied that in order to administer this Qot-
wnment on its true principles, and to enable the
Eiecuiire to conduct our toreign relations in the
manner moat beneficial to the country, it was
right and proper for the House to entertain a li-
beral confidence in him, and not to withhold the
tnoneys required for those objects, unless the re-
fu'-al <
stronger r
pound:
rc
inted br
than hod been advanced.
Mr. Tracy said, that this qaealton presented
itself to him in a peculiar point of view. When
they granted $20,000 some days ago for foreign
eorrespuodence, great complBints were then made
that taere was no estimate before them, and a
larger sum was refused on that ground ; but now,
when the PRBfliDEST bad sent them an estimate,
it was objected to. Was it the business of that
House, be inquired, to lake up such things by
, shillings, and pence 1 He thought it was
enaemaii from Virginia [Mr. Giles]
wished to restrict our foreign correspondence,
though be knew that was a power placed in the
.Executive. He belieTed if the Executive thought
it was necessary to send a hundred Ministers to
Europe, and called upon that House for appro-
priations, it was necessary and proper they ahould
make theih.
information on the subject to say such
ministers were not necessary, and, therefore, he
jhould vote for them; and he thought any man,
who thought he was a cotnpeteat judge of this
husinesn, must hare a great degree of arrogance.
If the Executive, indeed, were to show an un-
warraotable extravagance in the exercise of his
power, ihev might certainly put a check upon
aim; hut did any one ever suppose that thay
conld determine whethef a MioiMer ReMfauot
a Minister Plenipoientiary should be empkiTed in
any Court of Europel Such a thing cooM bM
and ought not to be done.
Mr. BwAMWiOK thought the only diSeaky «u
where they should get the money. Whrn Um
bill appropriating money for foreign iniefeootse
was passed, money was directed to be borrowed
at six per cent. ; nut now be supposed monef
could not be got at that rate, unee ibejr had
agreed that six per ceot. stock might be •old m-
Mr. TatTCHBR believed the qneadon wa« not
bow tagctmoney,but theapfvoprintitwaf HMBef
for a particular object, wbicn was qnits n diflen-
eat subject. If a sum of money were dae,and
they ought to appropriate for it, it wni WA A^
the time to inqiiue where it was to conae from.
Another time was proper for discnaui^ that ma»
tion. Mr. T. saw no more right that that acnm
had to withhold the itresent approprtatioaa than
ihev bad to withhold the nlanes of the Judges.
At least it struck him in this point of view. If
be was wrong he ahould stand corrected.
Mr. Tbnablb in<f Hired if there wss not 930,000
in the present esUmate on account of Ur. Bay-
ard's agencjr u Londoni [He was informed there
was.] It did not eppear to him that they wcm
appropriating for Ministers, but for an object
which did not come under the head of fijron in-
tercourse, viz: for the expense of paying BriliA
law-suits on account of sp<diation* on the proper-
ty of our merchants. He, therefore, feU niatself
at perfect liberty to refuse his assent to the appro-
Siation ; nor did bethink it arrogance to m en.
e thought there was too great a dtspositian in
this Qoverument to increase expense, and he fcll
himself justified in using his eadearofs 10 f»
Mr. Hbatb spoke in favor of the appropriitiaa.
The question was taken by yeas and nays, and
parried — 39 to 25, as follows :
Tkas'— Fiishei Anes, Bst^aatin Boom^ KkAsMl
Brent, Dempsej Bulges, WiUiua Coopw, Otergt Osat,
WiUiun Findley, Abiel Poster, Dwifbt FoMei, BmUsI
Gilbert, Nicholas Oilmsn, Heniy Glen, Channeer Osod-
rieh, Roger Gnnrold, Willian B. Groie, John H«sih>
Thomas Hendenon, William Hindnui, Sasnad Ly-
man, Francis Malbone, Frederick A. Muhlanbog.'Wn.
Vans Momy, Fimncis Preston, John Read,' Jofan Bidt-
ards, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jaiemiah Smith, Hslbaiuri
Smitb, Iraac Smith, William Sroitb, Zephuiiah Swifl,
Georfte Thatcher, Richard Tbomaa, Mark Thompsoo,
Uriah Tracy, John E. Van Allen, PhiUp Van Cmt>-
landt, Peleg Widnworth, and John WUIiudb.
Nais. — Lemuel Beotiin, Nathan Bryan. J oA^ Cril,
Samuel Earle, Albert Gallatin, Jamea Gillee)aci, Wads
Bampton. Carter B. Hsrrison, Ji4in Hathom, Jooalhan
N. Hsvelw, Daniel Heiat«r, James HoUand, Qtaift
Jackson, Matthew Locke, Sunuel Maday, Nadkaaiel
Macon, John MiQsdge, AnibeDj New,.J(4ui Nidtalai^
ImntA Smith, Riidurd Sprigf, jna., Tbomaa Spnat
Absalom Tatmn, AbnhMn Venabla, and Itichaid Wina.
CONTESTED ELECTrON.
The House again resumed the conaidoration af
the report of the Conunitiec of Eleeiiona, to
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HISTCHkT OF CONGnBSB.
■faiMTMl
Oontttted Eltxiwt, fc.
[H. orB.
whoik w«» recommittsd tha peatuw or Matthbw
Ltoh, compUiDin^ of an andQe ekctioii and re-
Wra of lasABL Suith to scrrc u a member of
ibat Hogse. The report (which had twice before
been under omrideration, bat no cooclusioB come
to tipcn it) was in the following words :
" That it ippcin by the depoiitioD of the Town-
Clei* of HinnHik, that thraa wen Mventeen penona
in the uid town who were enliiled to vote ; twelie of
whom tre italed to have been admitted in that town,
and Ave in other towns.
" That, b; B like depoMtiaii of Ae Clerk of Kingt-
toQ, it appeals diat time were in thai town nineteen
"Thtf, it^diMt not l^)pear Oat tin
wiOheld from the eaid towns by the Sbeiifl' ftvoa an;
finndnlent iutontion, but the tuiom — -— iJ— •-" —
to the town of Kingston i and the
Wt to tiM town of Haneoek, becaoae the SBMitff be-
Lsrad the; bad not lotsd at the firrt meelin<."
And when the report was first under considera-
tion it Was amendeo by adding n testdution to the
TollowiDg effect:
* Thai, •■ Ibere appears to have boon ■ luffident
nnmber of qnaliGcd TOlers in the town* or Hancock
and Kuigaton to haTS changed the itateoftbe election,
Se»olvtd, That Israel Bmith was not duly elected, and
b not entitled to his seat in this Hotue."
Thih report occasioned considerable debate,
was defended by Messrs. Harper, SiTOflEAvEa,
W. Smith, and N. Suits, principally en their
being Totes sufGcienl in the above two towns to
have changed the election if they had voted fai
the petitionee, and on the necessity of eslabtish-
ing It a^ a principle in elections that every town
should have notice of an election. It yns on-
posed by Messrs. Venable, (the Chairman of (Be
Committee of Elections,) Gal latim. Nicbolab,
Giles. W. Lvmah, and Findlev. They admii-
led the possibility but denied the probability that
the 36 votes in thess two towns would have
changed the fate of the election. They said (here
was every reaiion to believe the contrary ; that
Mr. Smith had a majority of 21 voles ; tbat 15
of the votes in Hancocit and Kingston had voted
for Mr. Smitb at the former election ; that Mr.
Lton, with all his endeavors to procnre ihem,
had only brought forward a petition from twenty
of these persons, who declared they would have
voted for him, which, if they had done, and
had voted for Mi. Smith, iie (Mr. 8.) would still
have had ■ majority ot one vote. But there were
affidavits from seven of these voters, declaring they
Votild have voted for the sitting member ; seven
others of them refiiHed to take any part in the
dispute; and two ef the voters were absent at
the time of the election, and oodM ddI have voted
either way.
The vole was at length taken on motion ofMr-
W. Smitb, and stood, yeas 28, naysll, as follows:
TkAi. — Bei^aminBonrae,JoehnaCMiiG«w(eDeot,
Samnet Earie, Abicl Fatter, Dwight Foater, EmUoI
CKIbart, Henry Glen,.Chaunc«y Goodrich, Rogw Gris-
wold, Bobert Goodloa Harper, Wni< Uindman, Aaiva
Kitchen, Matthew Locke, Samael Lpniu, John Read,
Baainel Bilgreaves, Jeiemiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith,
Inae Smith, William Smith, Zepbaniab Bwiit, Geotf*
Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark ThompKin, UriA
Ti«eT, John E. Tan ADen, and Peleg Wadmrorth.
KiiB. — Theodonia Bailey, Abraham Baldwhi, D»>
^A Bard, Lemnei Benton, Thomal Blount, Nathan
Bryan, Dcmpsey Burges, Qabriel Chiittie, Thomas
ClSirbome, fsasc Coles, Williun Findley, Albert G^
latin, William B. Oile., James CKllesme, Nicholas 03-
man, Christophet Graenap, Wade Hunpton, Oeoi^
H«iiM»ek, John Hathom, Jonathan N. Havens, John
Heatfi, Daniel Heiiler, James Holtsn^' Oeorge Jack-
son, Willism Lyman, Bamnet Haela;, Nathaniel Ma-
oon, James Madison, John MiDedge, Andrew Moore,
Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Anthony New, Francis fnt-
tan, John Riebattk, Robort Rntherfiwd, BidiaTd Sprigg,
jnn^ Thomas Smira, John Swanwiti, Abniiua T»
lorn, Philip Van CorUandt, and Abiaham VenaUe.
The question being thus decided in favor of llw
iting member, Mr. W. Ltkan proposed t'
lowing resolution; which was adopted:
the fol-
Jtei>hed, That Ibrael Smitb is entitled to ft
seat in this House a« one of the RepresentativM
from the State of Vermont.
IHPBEB8MENT OF AMBBICAN SEAMEN.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter
which he bad received from ten American etp-
tains, DOW tying with their vessels at Jamaicft,
lomplainiog of the illegal impressment of their
eamen by British ships of war, on which tfaef
ire kept tike slaves, and subjected to infectiou
diseases, with which the vessels of war are now
ted ; and stating that, until their men are set
at liberty, thw cannot return home. The^ prey
for the interference of Government, since it had
considered the case of their brethren in Algiei^
whose situation was not worse than theirs. The
letter and papers accompanying it were refeind
to the Secretary of State.
Wkdhbbdat, Jhne 1.
The bill authorizing the Pbebident or thk
Uwitbd States lo lay, regulate, and revoke em-
bargoes, during the ensuing recess of Congrefli,
was read the tbird time and passed.
PROMULGATION OP THE LAWS.
Mr. Tbact, from the committee to whom wan
referred the bill from the Senate, to amend an act
for the more general promulgntion of the laws of
the United Stales, reportid, that they found on
iuquiry ihat the Secretary of State had contracted
for the prinlins! of the laws, a circumstance, they
supposed, with which the Senate were not ac-
quainted ; and it was their opinion that a speedy
promulgation of the laws would overbalance the
objcclioQ of the Senate for wishing the printing
of the laws 10 be postponed till after the next ses-
sion; the reasons which induced this were, tboy
understood because the next session would cfifii'
plete four Congresses and two Presidencies.
The report was agreed io,aad the bill ww n«*
the third time, aud injected.
.dbyGoogle
HISTORY OP CONGRESS.
1500
H.OFR.]
State of the Ptntmcei.
(JuMB, 1798;
CALL FOB INFORMATION.
Mr. QALLi.TiR moved a resolution to the fol-
lowing effect, which was agreed to :
" Ruoltttd, ThM the SecreMry of the Tstasaij be
directed to Iiy before Ibis Hoiue, nithin the fini week
of the next TCwion of CongreBi, > alatemeut of the
miaaxjn expended for the Military Eatsbluhment bn
each caleD-'ar jeu, &om (he eBtabUahmeiit of the pres-
ent Goremmeat to ihe latof Jbdubtj, 1796,distiiiguUh-
ijog the ■turn eTDfltidsd tmder eftch head for which ipe-
dfie appropriktiona were made ; and bIbo a atalement
of the ezpeD«e attending the eipedition of the militia
to the Weatem couDtiea of PennsylTania, nnder the
acTeral heada for which apedfic appiopriationa were
STATE OF THE FINANCES.
Mr. W. Shith rose and said, it would be recol-
lected that when the bill for pacing the debt to
the Bank ms under consideration, a (gentleman
from PcnnsflTBoia JMr. Qallitin] had gon<' into
a mJDUie examination of the finances of the Unit-
ed States, from which he had eodeaTored toprove
tliai there had been an inciease of the Public
Debt, of fire millions of dollars, under the present
GoTernment. Mr. S. said, that he bad come to
the House the next day prepared to reply to the
gentleman's Btatements, when to his great sur-
prise, the House determined to postpone the coo-
sidenilion of the Baak bill, and take up the subject
of the Treaty. A few days after, the gentleman
from Pennsylvania withdrew altogether his oppo-
sition to the Bank bill, and thus Mr. S. was de-
prived of an opportunity of refuting the statements
which had been introduced. This statement had
since been published, and as it appeared to him to
contain important errors, tending to mislead, he
could not, consistently with his duty, suffer the
•ession tq close without pointing them out. He
had for iiome time past watched for a suitable
opportunity to effect this purpose, but had been
prevented dv the great pressure of public busi-
ness. As (bis was the last day of the session,
and there was now an interval' unemployed, he
would propose a call on the Treasury Department
for information, to be laid before the House at the
next session, on the points iu cpnlest, and would
proceed to some observations calculated (o detect
the errors into which the eentleman from Penn-
■vtvania had fallen, and at toe same time to evince
tne proprietv of agreeing to the proposition which
was now suWitted.
Mr. B. here read his resolution, as follows:
" Een^ved, That the Seeretftty of the Treasury be
dtroctad to report to this Houu, the next wMioD of
Congieaa, a statement oratatamenta exhibiting —
I, TliB amount of the Foreign and Domeatic Debt of
the Cnitad States, including ike tununed Debt, on the
111 of Jannar;, 1790, and 1791, reapectively.
S. The amount of the aaid Debta on the lat of Jann*
ai7,i7»6.
3. The amount of the anlidpatioiii at lb« cloae of
«adi year, ftom the year 1791 to (he year 1796, in-
dnaive.
4, The amount of the arndfle Debb IncuiTed by the
kl« Oovamment and p«id at the Treaaurr of the pie-
balanee* ofttmaanU tnkiek originaUd under Iki lole
Gmemmeit, prior the lit January, 179<t.
e. The amount of Oebti eitiogiuihed by the epv»
tioD ofthe SinkinK Fund to the dose of the year ITftfit
dittinguuktTi^ the mne plattdnndtr eoA of tkelieadt
of ajipTopriaivtif jor that purpete.
6. An ealimBto of tlie nuDB expected to be recewed
from (he bonds whidi accmed frmn duliea an impost^
to the dose ofthe year 1796, after dAncting the dnw-
backa and expenaea of collection."
SThe words in the above resolution printed in
ic, were words introduced on motion of Mr.
Gallatin.]
Mr. Smitb, after propoaing the above resolation,
said he would first point out what appeared to him
to be the errors into which the membei from
Pennsylvania had fallen, and then exhibit a coc'
rect atatement of the financial sitoatiou of the
United States.
[Here Mr. a»nTH waa interrupted by Mr. Vm-
NABLE, who inquired of the Speaebr, whether
this view of their finances was in order at this
time. The Speaker declared Mi. 8. in order
white he was producing reasons for introducing
the resolution on the table.]
Mr. SuiTB continued, and obserTed, that even
if he had been somewhat out of order, as he was
endeavoring to correct an erroneous and deploia-
of their financial situation which
prosperity of this country -wonld have
thought of interrupting and preventing him from
so doing; on such an occasion he should have
expected to have been heard by every person of
that description not only with patience, but with
Mr. Vkhable said, he had no wish lo prevent
the ^ntleman from detection error, but he did not
thinl a long discussion on this subject was well-
timed on the last day ofthe session.
Mr. Smith proceeded. The gentleman from
Pennsylvania, in order to make out an increase of
debt of five millions, under Ihe present Gorera-
ment, had assumed tne following gmund, viz :
lit. He Btateitheexceaaof the expendi-
tare at Ihe end of 1794, beyond the
revenue at - - ?a,7<»,D00 00
Atuwer. The Loans received wtm •■ ■ —
From Foreign Loana 9607,960 78
Domestic Louis ^400^000 00
4,007,960 TB
Lea-ring xAti he aQrlee an exee
But the fUkiwing anma o" -
the Fnblia Debt were p
he takaa no notke, vii :
Inatahnenta French Debt 463,760 00
Dntdi Ddrt, due lat of
jQDe, 1T94 - ■ 400,000 00
Domeatic Debt purchaasd 186,889 91
PaymeotB to Ibreign offl>
ceis • - 44,763 36
.dbyGoogle
mSTORT OF CONGRESS.
State of the Fmanea.
[H.ofR.
The real elcea was, therefiire, (inetead
or 93.700,000, u BUMd br Mr. O.)
only - ■ - ■ - Sl,7S3,fllS 6t
9dli/. H« aUtea ui mccms in thi yeu
1795, of . . . 91,600,000 00
Arutoer. The Loani receJTcd in 1790
w«re u flfUowi, indudmg AlgcriiM
DomMtic Louu - $3,300,000
Foreign Loiiia, 96,484
The DoTUMtic Louu repaid
in 1T9& amoimled to - 1,800,000
The inKtalmenU of French
Debt paid thin vear - 4fi3,'T&0
Dutch Debt, due June, 1796 400,000
The reimburaemeot of nz
per cent, atock - - 660,000
3db. He
n increase of Debt,
I intereet which accrued on the
Foreign Debt during the jem 1790 • 600,000 00
And that which accrued on the Dchdos-
tic Debt in the same year - '. 900/KW 00
Antujtr. Bothlhewdebtawereincurred
snder the farmer Ooremnient : (he
Funding act did not para till 4th An-
guat, 1790: the act Ibi railing an
adequate revenue did not para till 10th
August, 1 790 ; those revenuee could
not come into the Tresaurj till the
enauing yev. How, then, could the
interert of 1790 be paid 1 It ia ab-
mrd to call that interact an increaae
of debt under tlie present Oorenunanl;
it waa a part of the debt contracted
under the idd QoTenunent. Thia
item ii therefore to be expunged.
A/hit/. He laHl; itatea, ■■ an increan of
debtj under tbo preaeot Gorecnmen^
the intcnat aocruing on the araamed
debt, during the jaaia 1790 and 1791,
Atutotr, I. Tbfi Funding act paraed 4th Angua^ 1790.
It waa impnarihie to make tbe neeeaaary arrangementa
in time to fund the Stale delita, before tha end of the
year 1791.
t. The act providing the requiaitethnda for the aaaumed
ddiladid not para till 8d ef March, 1701, and thoae
fboda Muld not come into the Traaanry before the
year 179S : but,
S. Tbi* inteieat waadwrgad to du Statea, in the rattle-
meotof aeoounta betweeu the United Statra and Uie
aareial Statea. Being Iherefbre inlweat, which fiwwd
part of a debt oootraeted btfcta tbe exiatmee of the
preaent Ooieniniait, iriudi could not peanM^ be dia-
chaiged during the jeua 1700 and 1701, and whkh
wia charged to the Btatea bj tbe CommiaaiaDen, it
cannot fimn an item of increaae of debt under the ^»
aent GorenimeDt.
Bea^itulation of Erron.
Itt Error. Eicera aUUed by Mr. G.
in 1794 .... 93,700,000 00
IUdexceaa,on^ - - - l,733,eiS 53
7,8S6 00
3J Error. Eicraa aUted b? Mr.
in 1796 -
Beal eiceaa only '-
DifieroDoe
The increaae of debt by the anticipstiDiu
of 1704 and I79S, was only ^,106,-
380 63 ; iiiiteid of (4,300,000, aa
it^edbyMi. 0. Tbe two ficat items
of his statement are therefeie enooeoua
by the anm of - - ' - 3,093,710 48
3d Error. Improper charge of the inte-
rest on Foreign and Dom^c Debt
lor 1790 . - - - 1,400,000 00
tth Error. Impnqier charge of the inte-
reat on the anumed Debt of 1790 and
ITOl .... 1,060,000 00
nMr. C
. «4)M8,71I 4S
To the above iDay be added, a material mis-
atatement, in respect to the Sinking Fund. He
credits the OoTerament with onlj' the sum of
t957,770 65; because, as he savs, that sum nlcme
■tnn applied out of the actual resources of the
United States to the purchase of the debt ; but he
ought to hare fairly staled that, by the judicioua
anplicationof that suiii,a very considerable amotint
of debt had been redeemed. The stock standing
to the credit of the Commissioned of the Sinking
Fund on the ISth day of December, 1795, arising;
from purchases, amounted to $2,307,661. Fari^
this beinp purchased with moneys drawn from
loans, it IS impossible to say with exact precision
what portion has arisen from actual domestic re-
sources ; but it must be considerable, because it
appears that only the sum of $523,925 has been
purchased with moneys drawn from loaDs. This
constituting only a smslt part of the amount actu-
ally purchased of the debt, it follows, that about
the sum of $1,700,000 must have been redeemed
by the aforesaid sum of $957,770 65, and the in-,
terest accruing thereon. It must be remembered
that, as it was impossible to pay the interest of
the Domestic and Forei^ Debt for the year 1790,
the Funding act not baring passed tilt 4th August
of that year, the tale Secretary of the Treasury,
Mr. Hamilton, recommended the judicious ntan
which Congress adopted, of constitnting a Sincing
Fund with tbe surplus revenue cif that year,
amounting to the before-mentioned sum. The
application of that sum in purchases produced two
rerybeneBcialeffects: the Oovemmeot were ena-
.dbyGoogle
um
HISTORY OF C(»VQB^8t}.
H.orR.]
State ^ the /Tnoncn.
|JPHB,1796.
bled 10 buy up the debt considerably under par,
«ad, by purchasing, gradually raised Ibe ralue to
par, wnicb was an adTBDiage to the community.
It appears, frooi the report of the Commissioners,
that a great part of the sum redeemed was obtain-
ed considerably below par, and that in the course
of four or five years the sum of jgStjTO 65 has
jnelded the sum of tli'^OO^'^i i" funded stock.
\he greatest part of which either now bvars or will
shortly bear ati interest of 6 per cent. Now, as the
geotleman from PeunsylTBoia Lad thought proper
to charge the present Qovernment with the inte-
rest accruing on the Domestic aad Foreign Debt
during the year 1790, ai an increase of debt, it
would have been but fair in him, according to his
pwn mode of statement, to give the Government
credit for the whole sum produced by the well-
timed application of the surplus revenue of that
_._ _ .. _i which that
ylus may fairly be estimated to have produced
that surplus Itself, may be charged to the gen-
tiemao from Pennsylvania as an omission, and
another error, amounting 10 about ^750,000 00
Which, added to the before noticed
wrora,of - - - - 4,513,711 00
makes an aggrefple of ejiora Moi
misatatemenia, of - - 5J893,711 00
Abogt e^ual to the sum at whicb he states thi
increase of debt.
But, even taking his statement respecting thi
excesses of ezpendiiures, as just and correct in all
its parts, and what does it amouit tol Why,
that from the year 1793 to 1796, the expei
tave exceeded tha income by thi *
n of ^,80i
J aaai
a of gt,200,000, expended in sappressing the
Western insurrection, the iosa of revenue for five
years in the Western counties by combinatioDs
against the officers of the revenue, (which occa-
uoned that insurrection,) and the turther suras
expended in stationing troops in those counties to
prevent another insurrection, and we shall nearly
talance the gentleman's account
Taking, however, the sutheolic statement, at
coUectedfrom official documents, it appeared that
the excess was, instead of (2,800,000, only t706,-
147 39, notwithstanding the very great and ex-
traordinary expenses the GoveroiDenl had incur-
led since the end of 1793, in suppressing the
iDsurredion, in negotiations to preserve our neu-
trality, in negotiations with the Mediterranean
Powers, in the foriificalions of our liarbors, sup-
plying our arsenals, building frigates, and carrying
on very expensive operations on the frontiers
against the lodians. And against this small ex-
ceas, was to be set (^ a considerable part of tbe
.proceeds of the Sinking Fund, and the gain which
the GoTernmeni had made by the acquisition of
Bank stock, calculated at half a million of dollars;
and the Government had, moreover, coranaenced
the redemption of the debt, and had paid offi on
die 1st of January, 1796, 1560,000, on the princi-
pal of the six per cent, stock.
^. S. abaarved, that there was aaothtr item '
which ought to be carried to the credit of the
by the debtor States in consequence of the settle-
ment of accounts between the several Slates and
the United States.
This sum amounted, oit the Slat December,
1789, to $3,517,584. Add the interest theieon ta
1st January last, at 4 per cent., (tbe rite of inte-
reat allowed by tbe United States to the crcdilor
Sutes on their balances,) $844^18. Total on Isl
January last, $4,361,802.
As the UniCpd States have aKamed asd fandel
that sum to the creditor States, in behalf of, and
as guarantees of the debtor States it may proper-
ly be considered as a just claim against nie bltet,
and he hoped measures wonld betakatstiheiKit
session to place this business on some footing ot
adjustment, which would indemnify the United
States for these advance&without being material-
ly inconvenient to the deblo- "•-'—
Mr. S. said, that having pointed oni what ap-
^red to him to be the errors of the EentlemaaH
itatemeot, be should proceed to ezhinit his own
of the real situation of our finances.
The question whether ^e Debt of the United
Stales had increased or diminished uoder the ad-
minisiraiion of the present Federal Goveromcii^
would, he said, be fairly answered by the follow-
ing Matements, which exhibited a comparative
view of those Debts as they existed on the 1st
day of January, 179;L, and on the 1st day (^ Jan-
uary, 1796:
lit. The Pnblic Debt on tbe Gnt day ai lamamij,
I791,coiuiiied of OwibllowiaK puticalan:
Tbe Debt due to Ftanoe - . . 98JW1.7U H
The Debt due in AmBlardam ■ - S^l,6» 01
The Debt dne to Spahi ■ - ■ UOas* M
The Debt due to foreign officere - • aaj,STt 81
The Domeatic Debt conlncted b; tbe
late Oovenunsni, or the Debt ■liang
from conrideiaiioDa pior to the fie-
■eot ConBlilutwn of the L'nlted Bialas,
inclading the Assumed DetK, and ftaie
balances due the Stslee, amouted to H^M^H X7
To discharge tbe pecuniair obligationa
of the United States on the IMoT Jan-
uary, 17B1, including the Assunied
Deb^ there would therefore have been
- ■n^i;m ii
3d. Of the PuUie Debt on the 1 at of Janoaiy, ITM
The Foreign Debt, incMding the in-
stalment nhirh bU dne on the 1st of
June, 179fi, ww - - - - «IS,100A(W »
The capital of the S.per cenL Mock am
the 80Ui September, ITM - - SS^10,ab« «
The Deferred Debt on the 30lh 8ep-
1796 .... 14,^61.934 41
The S per cenL stock - ■ 1B,KS^ *>
[Inc(tidlti« new $4,000,060 for b«-
ianoa* to (xeditor Stales and now dtw
to the Uaitad States by the daUot
SiaM.J
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i5b^
Hi9TX)Rt t*P CONGRESS.
JVMB, 179S.1
Stale ^ (A< FinaiuM.
fH.OFR.
1^ B I'S pa onit «xk -
Tha i 1-t p«r Mnt itock ■ ■ ■
Tb* 0nftioded Debt - . . •
liis Domeatic Louu hidof tkaBanka
Add B •nm anffideiitftiU^lanunbiiiM
tta I>«bla doe to foreign offlcan be-
Tond what had benk applied prior to
Jaanaiy 1, I7S8
Total DeM on the lit Jaunarr, ITH,
including the niini placed to (be
credit of Ae CommiMianen of Aa
linking Ptmd, and oertain rtin-
bataenaant*, whieh ate hoMaftav d»-
1,848,»M M)
176,000 00
1,3«S,837 97
lie Bom first nentioiied being de-
dnctod bom 9W,SH,U9 7», bains
the apparent amoonl of IMit dna
«n the lot JaniuuT, 1798, aifaatite
an ittcraaaa of IMtt amonnlinf lo -
•8,096,145 W
Bnt against thti apparent incraaae of
Debt the following ■nm* are to be
oppoead, via:
Tha atoii actual!]! pnrchaiad, redaea-
ed, and vaatad in the Sinking Fond (3,708^1 09
Tha inalalment of the Foreign Debt,
whidi fall dtw in June, ITOS, and
now paid ..... 400,000 00
Tha ilock of the Bank of the United
Statea held 67 the United Slatca, va-
lued onlj at par - - - - 1,000,000 00
nieinatalmant of the 8 MrcenLatock
mdeemed on tha laat day of Decem-
ber, 1795 660,000 00
Debts of the late Government paid in
■pede at the Treaam; prioi to Jan-
UB17, 1794 446,860 66
There remained, at the doae of 179B,
bond* for dntiea on imports, whidi
would be collected and paid into &e
TreaauTj, clear of all dcdnctioiis, at
leaat 4,000,000 00
Amounting, in tha whole, to - 10,109,S4S H
Which ram ii the ezoen of Ae taeana
which hai« bean aajnired b; the
ptaaant QoTemmetit berond Aa pay-
nent of interest, and all comnt ei-
vrerj idea ofan arcumidabanof the
arants bj the Mlewing
Tha iMORttitiMi
ExpsDaeaof ibrmga negotiations
Biudiiif offiigataaand '
•1,900,000 00
1,000,000 DO
600,000 00
Hr. B. thought he ilras (hnefore warranted in
sajiing, that, instead of an mcreaae of debt of fiTtt
miUioD!*, there was, not withsiao ding all the difll-
caliies sad obstructions which the QoTenimeDt
, an excess in favor of the GoT-
millions. However, he did not
wish to real this stateioent upon his own anthorir
t7 ; he was willlDg to confess (hat he might b« at
mach biased by nis atlaehment to the Oovem-
meiit lo represent things in loo tavorable a point
of view as others might be xd exhibit them under
their most UDfhvoreble aspect. He had, thereforOi
brought forward the resolution which he had read,
in order thar the Honse n ' '
be in possession of the f
interesting a subject.
Mr. Oallatik said, thai fes the ml^ect whitib
had given rise to his ibrmer observBiions on tha
■tale of our finauces, bad been repeatedly befoi*
the Honse since that time, the remarks made Iff
the gentleman From South Carolina having, upon
those debates, been omitted by him, now, on tke
very day of adjournment, came certainly unoi-
pected. He had not fay him a single paper or doc-
ument he could applf to, and he must therefore
suSer several of theobseirationsof Ihat^Dtleman
to pass without an inrestigalion of their accura-
cy. Yet, as be must necessarily make a reply im-
mediately, it being the only opportunity he could
have during the session he would proceed, unpta-
pared as he was, ashelnoughtthai he had it fully
in his power, from the very statemeDti inst made
by the gentleman, to show that tttat gentleman had
not disproved a single fact that he hadhimsellad'
vanced on that subject, and that the real differ-
ence between them would be found to he solely
on matters of opinion.
He would premise what he had to say. by ob-
serving that the gentleman from South Carolitw
held in bis hand bis [Mr. a.'s]slBtement,asprint-
ed in the newspapers, that hehad had limeenongh
to reflect on the subject, and had himself eh obBd
the moment of his attack ; that, therefore, prepat-
ed as he was, he must have had it in his power to
detect the grounds of error of Mr. Q.'s statement,
ifany ; yet that eentleman, instead of disproTins
in a direct way that statement, bad only attacked-
ihe results, by introducing new statements, coiH
stracced on different prinoiplesj and which it wxa
difficult, if not impossible, to invesiigale upon «
moment's warning.
The two first items In Mr.O.'s sutement whidi
the gentlemaii ^om South Carolina represent'
ed as erroneous, were the excess of expenditure
beyond the receipts before the rear 1795, and
daring that year. The mode which Mr. O. bad
adopted on that head was this: He bad takeo
on one hand the aggregate of all the sums receir-
ed in the Treasury from out ownresources,rejeet-
ing all that wan procured by loans, either foreign
or domestic ; ana, on Ihe other hand, the a^regats
of all the sums paid for current expend it ores and
interest on the Public Debt rejecting all that waa
applied to the payment of the principal of any
.dbyGoogle
HISlXHtT OF CONGRESS.
H. or K.]
Stole oj the
[JowE. 1796.
•zpenditures, ihua stated, exceed ei] our receipts, the
deficieacf muit h&ve been supplied by borrgwiug
money, by loaaa, by aa increase of debl ; whilst
•Jiy redemption, puteha&e, or payment of ibe Pub-
lic Debt, which might have takeo place in the
mean time, mutt neeessatily hare ultimately been
paid out of moneys borrowed^ out of other loans,
and was of course only a sbifiing of debt, since
they could not have been paid oi^t of the receipts
in the Treasury from domestic resources, these
being less than, and, therefore, altoselber absorb-
ed by, the current expendicuies. The genlleman
from South Carolina had not attempted to contro-
vert the principle upon which that statement was
groundea ; ana, in order to show that it was erro-
neous in its details, he should have proved, either
that Mr. O. had not included the whole of the mo-
neys received into the Treasury, or that be had in-
serted, under the head of expenditures, objects
wlkich related to the payment of the principal of
a debt. That gentleman had done neither; but
That had be attested to show '? Firstly, he bad
asserted that Mr. G. had made an error of $976,000'
in hli account of the excess of expenditures be-
yond revenues to the end of the year 1794. In
order to prove it, he bad. by subtracting the whole
amount of the <lebt purchased or paid during the
yeat-1794, from the whole amount of the moneys
borrowed during the same year, (a mode upon
which Mr. G. said he would forbear observing for
the present,) slated the real excess of expenditures
over receipts, for that year, to be $1,723,000, aad
the difference between that sum and $3,700,1)00,
which Mr. Smith asserted had been stated by
Mr. Q. as the excess of expenditures to the end
of 1794, (being the aforesaid sum of $976,000,)
that gentleman called the first error of Mr. G.
Supposing both the statement and the assertion
of the gentleman from South Caiolina to be cor-
rect, the conclusion drawn by him was most ex-
traordinary. He attempted to show that the ex-
cess of expenditures beyond the receipts, from the
establishment of the present Government to the
end of the year 1794, was less thftn $2,700,000, by
proving that that excess, during the year 1791
was only $1,723,000 '. The only part of his own
[Mr. G.'s] statement which could be invalidated
by that position would be the balance which he
bad represented as deficient for the year 1794;
but the gentleman, by recurring to the statement
in his own hand, would see that Mr. G.'s result for
that year alone, the sum which he bad called the
excess of expenditures over receipts for that year.
was only $1,480,000 — that is to say, less by near'
$230,0Q0 than the gentleman made it himself.
But in fact, the member from South Garohna had
not attended to Mr. G.'s statement ; if he had, he
would have seen that Mr. G. had slated the excess
of expenditures beyond receipts, from the estab-
lishment of the present Government to the end of
1794, after deducting the moneys applied to the
redemption of the debt, at only $1,350,1)00, and
not at $2,700,000, and that, of course, the whole
of his observations upon that item fell to the
ground.
The next item, the excess of expenditures over
receipts for the year 179S, he had stated as more
than one million, probably $1,500,000. and in the
printed statement which tbe gentleman from
South Carolina had in his hand, it was ultimately
estimated at $1,400,000. That gentleman stated
that excess as being only $380,0(HI, and he had at-
tempted to prove it by subtractine the moneys ap-
plied to the payment of the PubEc Debt for that
year, from the moneys borrowed in the same pe-
riod. Although Mr. G- could not recur at once to
documents in order to controvert that statement,
he would point out three material errors therein:
1st. The gentleman from South Carolina stated
the two per cent paid on the 1st January last, on
the six per cent, stock, at $560,000, instead of
$516,000. 2d. He stated the amount paid on the
principal of the French Debt at $453,000, whilst
that was the whole amount paid on account of
both principal and interest ; and if so much had
been paid to France, part of the interest due to
Holland must have been paid out moneys in Hol-
land arising from Foreign Loans, and had so far
diminished our balance in cash in the hands of
our bankets there. 3dly. He hod neglected to
mention that the balance in cash in the Treasury
on the 1st January, 1795, was about $1,150,000.
and on the last day of the same year did not much
exceed $500,000. The error* arising Tram those
three items added lo the deficiency stated by the
gentleman from South Carolina, ($380,000,)
made an aggregate of about $1,350,000, which
came very near to his own estimate of the defi-
ciency lor that year.
Mr. G. added, that the comparative view of the
Public Debts on the 1st days of January. 1791
aod 1796, as given by the gentleman from South
Carolina himself, corroborated his own estimate
of the excess of expenditures over receipts on the
1st January, 1796. It was impossible for him la
controvert the accuracy of that statement, which
he had just heard read, and he must, for the pre-
sent, take it for granted ; although he might ob-
serve, Istly, that the amount of Domestic Debt
stated by that gentleman at $64,825,000 oa the 1st
of January, 1791, was the very sum staled by the
Secretary of the Treasury as its amount on the
1st of January, 1795. 2dly. That he had staled as
a set-off, $2,700,000 vested in the Sinking Faad^
which was $400,000 mure ihan the nominal
amount of Public Debt slated by that gentleman
to have been redeemed by purchases, and that, al-
though he could not disprove, yet he muchdoubt-
ed whether that item of $400,000 was admissiUe.
But, waiving every objection to the staiemeni, iti
result was, that on the 1st January, 1796, ih^te
was an appareatincreaseof Debt of about $^100,-
000. against which should be set off a variety of
itetns amounting to $6,100,000, and aoeoUected
bonds (which would make part of the receipts of
the years 1796 and 1797) to the amount of $4,000-
OOO, leaving, in the opinion of thegentieman from
South Carolina, an excess, not of moneys in hand
but of means acquired by the GovemmenL oi
about $2,000,000. If the bonds, which made h
part of the receipts prior to 1796, and which, thctc-
foie, Mr. G. bad not admitted as a set-«fll w»re
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HISTORT OF CONGRESS.
JC1W.179&3
1 oftU
[H^orR.
taken from that smoDnl, it left a deficiency of
$2,000,OOC, on the ver? principles of the gentle-
man from South Carolina. He had bimseu stat-
ed that deSciescy at $2,760,00(1, and of course the
onlf difference between them was (760,000, which
arose from hit havine given credit to QoTern-
ment, in the account oT purchases of Public Debt,
onl^ fof the moneys applied. to that purpose,
whilst that geatlenun had set down the whole of
the nominal amonnt pttrchased. This difference
had been stated by the gentleman himself at
$750,000 ; and having thus shown, bjr that gentle-
man's own statements, that this item constituted
the whole difference between them, so far as re-
lated to the eicess of expenditures beyond receipts
to ihe end of 1795, he would now proceed to the
examination of that item.
The purchases of Public Slock by the Commis-
missioners of the Sinking Fund, were made with
moneys arising from three sources, to wit : mo-
neys received tram Foreign Loans, surplus of re-
venue of 1790, and moneys arising from the inte-
rest accruing on the stock purchased and redeem-
ed. The nominal amoOnt of stock of every de-
scription, (six and three pet cent, and deferred,)
paiehased from all three sources, was staled by
the gentleman from South Carolina at $2,307 ,000{
from which he had deducted the amount purchas-
ed wilh moneys arising from Forei^ Loans, and
had staled the balance purchased with our domes-
tic resources at tli700,000. The difference be-
tween that sum and $957,000. (surplus of revenue
of 1790, a-pplied to purchases,) which last sum Mr.
B. had said to be the onlf amount credited by Mr.
G. 10 Goverament, constituted the difference stat-
ed by that gentleman as an ettor of $750,000 in
Mr. Q.'s statement. «
Mr. G., in answer, observed, that in the first
place, the gentleman from South Carolina had
not attended to the whole of his statement j for,
although he hod, io his account of expenditures
and receipts, taken notice only of the said sum of
$957,000, he had, in his recapitulation, reduced
his esdmate of the increase of Debt from $5,300,-
000 to Sre millions, allovring, as he had expresslv
stated, the $300,000 for sundries he had neglected,
and especially for the proceeds of the interest of
the Sinking Fund. Then he had given full ere-
dit for the moneys arising from that interest,
amounting to about $225,000, which, added to the
$957,000 abovementioned, made an aggregate of
$1,180,000, for whick he had credited Govern-
ment, being the total amount of moneys arising
from domestic resources applied to purchases,
which aggregate subtracteo from the sum of
$1,700,000, stated by the gentleman from South
Carolina as the nominal amount of stock pur-
chased, left B difference of only $520,000, instead
of $750,000. This difference of $520,000 was not,
however, a difference as to fact, but only as to
opinion i foi they both agreed that only 11,180,-
000 had been applied to purchases, and that
$1,700,000 had been purchased ; and the onlv-ques-
tion iras, which of the two sums should be cre-
dited. The geotleioaa from South Carolina in-
sisted that the whole . uonunal amount should be
set down, Istly, because, as he iosintiated, (he rea-
son why it was larger than the amount of moneys
actually applied to purchases, was the judicioui
application of the money and the low price at
which stock had been purchased ; and, 3dlv, be-
cause Mr. Q. had charged Government with th«
whole amount of interest which had accrued on
the debt during the year 1790. In answer to tha
first assertion, Mr. G. observed, that the true
cause why the nominal amount of stock purchas-
ed was larger than the moneys expended in pur-
chase*, was, that more than two-thirds of the sam
redeemed, (by domestic resources,) more than
$1,200,000 consisted of three per cent, and defer-
red stock i and he would leave it to the candor of
the House to decide whether, that beine the fact,
that sum should be set down at its nominal value,
or whether it was not a fairer way to value it at
what it had cost 1 It would be, Io be sure, a most
extraordinary argument to borrow one million of
dollars at six per cent, to purchase with that mil-
lion two millions of three pet cent, stock, and
then to boast that the debt was decreased by on«
million of dollars. Mr. G.added, that il was per-
fectly fair in him, on the principles of his own
smtemenl, (where he had charged Government
with the interest which accrued during 1790,) to
hare credited the amount only of moneys expend
ed in puiehastDg stock, instead of the nominal
amount purchased ; for, although he had charged
the whole amount of interest accruing dunng
1790, he had valued the whole three per cents.
and Deferred Debt created bv the non-payment of
said interest, at only one-hall of its nominal value;
and having gone on that principle in his charses,
it was perfectly consistent to preserve it in his
credits. Indeed, if he was to make a new state-
ment, upon the principle of the geotlenum from
South Carolina, of setting down the nominal
amount, instead of the real value, of every species
of Debt, either created or redeemed, a larger in-
crease of Debt would appear as the result ; Tor the
amount of three per cent, and deferred stock cre-
ated by non-payment of interest, during 1790 and '
1791, was much larger than the amount of the
same descriptions of Debt purchased by the Com-
missioners of the Sinking Fund.
To the next item, estimated by Mr. G. at 1,400,-
OOO dollars, and arising from the interest whicn
accrued during the year 1790 on the Domestic
Debt, and created an equal amount of Debt in
three per cent, slock, and from the interest for the
same year on the Foreign Debt, which was dis-
charged out of new loans, there was no objection
made by the eentleman from South Carolina as to
fact ; but be had given it as his opinion that it was
not fair to set that sum as an iacrease of Debt,be-
cause the funding system having begun to operate
only after the year 1790 the United States couid
not pay that interest. Such an argument misht
have applied, had Mr, G. blamed Goverumeut lor
not PHyiOK it; but as he had' only slated (he fact ;
to object the inability of the Government did not
invalidate, but, on the contrarv, was an admission
of his own assertion. It must De remembered that
, it was in answer to what he conceived a fella-
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mSTORf OF CiXHinBSiSk
ISU
a eftiul
fjpii»,1796.
PnUic Debt lince ihe estBbliafameDt of the pr«-
«Mit GOTeroment, that he hsd simplf stated wbat
WM our eituation od th« lat of Jaauaiy, 1790,
(thmt IB to say, ten months aftei the establiaibment
of tfaft QorernmeDt,) and what it wai six years
after, on the ist of January, 1706, it was clear that
in doing it, he eoold not anntbilsie ihe year 1790,
and that the interest accruing during the year, if
not p»id at all, or if mid out of the new loans,
must hare coDstituted an iocreHse of Debt, which
did not the less exist, because the United States
had been UDsble to ny it. The obseTTatlons of
the gientleman from Bonch Carolina, on this head,
amounted only to this: that, in order to take a
fhh riew of the opewtions of this Qovemment,
We thonld consider it as having begun only in the
year 1791 — that is to say, n«ar two vears after its
eommencemeot. But Mr. G., at the rame time
that he had left out the year 1789, which he con-
Mired to have been employed in preparing a re-
Tcnue for the followilig rears, could not leave out
tiso the year 1790, and that for a very palpable
reason. The revenue system was in full opera-
tion during that year, and had given a surplus of
reranue for that very year amounting to about
1,400,000 dollars, out of which 957,000 dollars, as
before stated, had been ajiplied to a redemption of
the principal of the Debt. He had given credit for
that sum m his statement, and the gentleman from
flonth Carolina would hare been very clamorous
if he had not, and it would have been absucd in
-him, whilst he was crediting that surplus of reve-
nae applied to a redemption of the Debt, and show-
ing, therefore, a decrease of Debt, not to charge
the increase of Debt which was taking place at
the same time,J)y the interest accruing during
that very year. ~ The United Slates might' hare
rtied that surplus, either to the payment of
principal or of the interest of the Debt j they
had, judiciously in his opinion, chosen the first ;
, but the natural coaseqnentse was, that the laat
remained unpaid, and became as fair an item of
Debt increased as the first was an item of Debt
redeemed.
The same observations would apply, still moi^
fbrcibly, to (he last item, which he had estimated
at 1,050,000 dollars, arising from non-payment of
the interest accrued during the years 1790 and
1791 on the same assumed Debt ; which was fund-,
ed, part as six per cent., part as three per cent., and
part as deferred stock ; he said more forcibly, be-
c«Dse one-batf of that interest had accrued during
the year 1791, which year was not objected to bf
the gentleman from Soulb CarolinB himself. But
that gentleman had, on this head, taken most ex.
traoidinary ground, indeed. Was not that gea-
tleman aware that he [Mr, O,] bad taken that
riew of the subject which was most favorable to
the opinion that the Debt had decreased T and
that, if compelled to lake a difiereni view, his con-
clusions would show a far greater increase of the
Public Debt during the existence of the present
Qorernment. That gentleman objected to that
Item, bccauM that intmst, although it bad become
a part of the Debt oT the United Slates, had ben
eharsedtothe inJividaal States. T«q>eetlr«lf, Vf
the CommissioDcrs who settled ifaesr aecoaMi;
Upon this Mr. G. obserred :
' That the gentleman conM not paritirely aa-
lin the fact ; for, atthongh the Comminiooet*
' directed by law to charge to the individual
Sutes the Debts respectively asmned foreacli by
the Union, and although it might be inferred froB
theuee that they most charge alao ibe iateresl to
Ihe 31st December, 17Dl,{wbteh made part of the
itock created by the ainumption,) yet it was only
an inference; and, b^ a sufawqaeni law thoM
Commissioners were directed to enarge each Slate
with all advances which had been or mighl be
made to it by the United States, with ini«reit
thereon only to the last dtr of December, 1788^
All thaicouldbesaid, was, tnat the two laws were
contradictory with each other, in what maBBO'
the Commissioners had reconciled or explaiiit^
them ihey did not know; but certain it was, that
if they had charged the Slates with the whole
assumption, including the interest to the 31«i cf
December, 1791, as they bad credited the Slate*
for their adrances only with iotereEt to the 31*t
December, 17B9, the balRnces struck lo each Bute,
although in conformity to law, were all trf" then
S. That, if thai interest h>d been aeinally charged
to the respective Sttftes, it must certainly havt
changed all the balances ; but how it had finallr
operated, and whether it had made those faalaneea
larger or less, that gentleman could not leJI.
3. That, whatever effect that charge might bare
produced on the balances of each Slate, it bad oM,
abstractedly, made any change in regard lo the
^Jnited States; for, be tlie balances wbal Ihey may.
the aggregate amount of those due by debtor States
must nece.ssarily have been equal to those doe to
creditor States! so that the observations of tht
gentleman were perfectly irrelevant.
But chat was not all. The asaoroptHM of tbc
State Debts might be considered under two poiau
of view. Those Debts might, in tbe first pbiM,
be contemplated as Debts dne by tbe Unioa.
In that light, they were only viewed as Debts
it, therefore, it
by the Union or by the individnal Sta'tea. la thai
light, ihey stood unconnected with the settlement
of accounts of tbe State*; and it was ax such thai
Mr. G. had considered them. He had ekaaea (d
do it, becanse he had avoided taking any fronad
which might have the appearance t^an otimtiaa
to the principles of the Funding System. In that
point ot view — il ben« a certain fact thai ibe in-
terest to ihe end of 1791 had not been paid to Ibe
creditors, either by tbe Slates or by tbe Union.
but that tt bad been funded by tbe last — it becaine
a proper item to be stated as an increase of DebL
But if that assumption was. upon the principle of
the gentleman of Sonib Carolina, lo be considered
as connected with and operating on the selileaieBt
of the accounts of the individual States; if the
Debts thus assumed were to be v)ew<.-d, not asa
Debt uf ^e Union, but as Dabia nf the Stataa,
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HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
JnBB, 1796.]
^aie of the Finance:
[RopR.
charg:ed to them by the Union, then ever^ part of
that lusumption which h&d not been repaid by the
Sutes, must be contemplated aa an increase of
the Public Debt of the Union ; and it was not the
partial effect pfoduced by a specific charge, but the
whole effect produced by the assumptton itself, on
the final settlement of the accounts of the several
States, which must be taken into consideration.
They well knew the amount of the Debt incurred
by4he mode which had been adopted, of asaumin^
before the accounts were settled— about eighteen
millions anda half assumed, and three millions and
a half funded to the creditor States for the balances
due them — made an aggregate of near twenty-two
millions of dollars, against which they had nothing
but three millions and a half, to be recovered from
the debtor Slates. It remained to examine what
would have been the final balances due to and by
the several States, if no assumption had taken
place. Although .the booki: of the Commissioners
were not opened to their inspection, yet they had
Bufficient data to make the calculation. Mr, G.
said he had made it, and found that the aggregate
amount of the balances which would have been
found due to the creditor States, (and of course
due by the debtor States, if no assumption had
taken place,) would have been very tittle more
than eight millions of dollars. From whence it
resulted, that, sunposing the balances due by the
debtor States to ne lost in both cases, the increase
of Debt arising from the assumption was fourteen
millions of dolurs — it being the difference between
twcntv-cwo millions which had actually been
funded, and eight millions which would have been
funded for balances due to the creditor States, if
no assumption had taken place ; that, supposing
the balances due by the debtor States to be reco-
vered in both cases, the increase of Debt arising
from the assumption was the amount assumed,
exclusively of the balanc<;s. to wit, near eighteen
millions and a half of dollars ; thatj supposing the
balances due by the debtor States to be lost, and
that, in case no assumption had taken place before
the settlement of accounts, the United States had,
after selllement, in order to equalize the loss aris-
IDg to the crediltir States from the debtor States
not paying their balances, assumed four millions
and a halrm addition to the eight millions balances
funded to the creditor States — theatfgregate(mak-
ing twelve-and-a-half millions of dollars) would
■till have been less, by a sum of nine millioos and
B half, than the twenty-two millions which had
been inaded according to the plan which had been
adopted. Thus, a statement made on (he princi-
ples upon which the objection of the geDtleman
from South Carolina did rest, would present, on
the moFt favorable position, an increase of more
than nine millions of dollaiv for the assumptioD
atone.
Mr. a. said that not only he had forborne mak-
ing his calculation on that principle, but that he
had not even presented another view of the tame
■ubjt'ut, whicn, although not so correct, in an
abstract point of view, was more 'simple and
practically true. The amount of Debts accoally
assumed and funded for States who had turned out
4tll Con. — 4S
s of dol-
10 be debtor States exceeded it
brs. That sum was an increase of Debt arising
solely from the operations of GoTernment, and
which would be eventually lost unless recovered
from those debtor States — an event which was not
contemplated by manv. And here, he would ob-
serve, that the remaras made by the gentleman
from South Carolina on the subject of the reco-
very of those balances, if he meant to convey an
idea that they should constitute an item to the
credit of the United States, were altogether falla-
ci JUB ; for they could be set off only against the
balances fnoded to the creditor States ; and these
had not been charged, either by that genileman'a
or by his own statement, as an increase of Debt
under the present Govern meat.
Mr. O. concluded by observing, that, haviiw
fully demonstrated that the gentleman from Soitu
Carolina, so far from having disproved any of the
hcts stated by him, had on the contrary supported
them by his own statements ; and having submit-
ted to the House his reasons in support of those
points on which they differed as matters of opin-
ion, he would rot object to the resolutions moved
by that gentleman, although there was not a single
document he asked for which was not already
in thi possession of the House, and althoogh the
sole object of the call on the Treasury Depart-
ment was to procnre statements in that shape and
for those periods only which were best calculated
to favor the gentleman's opinions, and to give
some support to his systems. For the statements
to be given, in conformity to those resolutions,
would present a view neither of the interest ac-
crued on the Domestic and Foreign Debt during
the year 1790, nor of the interest accrued on the
Assumed Debt during the years 1790 and 1791,
nor of the expenditures, as compared with receipts,
which were exactly the three points upon which
they differed.
Mr. W. Smith admitted that there watone point,
and only oae,in which beandthegentlemanagreed;
that was, in vindicatiog the Administration from
every blame for this supposed increase of debt. Ha
was glad to find the gentleman so ready now to
acknowledge that the Administration had done
everything in their power, with the means in their
hanus, and that if any blame did attach, it was on
Congress, for not providing more resources. As
the gMMhman disclaimed an intention of censnr-
Sthe Administration, Mr. S. was at a loss to
over the ihotives for his statements. Id everr
other respect, the gentleman and himself differed
altc^ther. There were four items respecting
which they differed essentially, the result froni
which was, that the gentleman's statement pro-
duced an increase of Debt of five millions and hia
exhibited an increase of means of two millions.
1. The first item related to the amount of anti-
cipations or expenditures beyond the receipla at
the end of 1794. Those aijtici nations must have
arisen from Loans; in order, tnerefore, to ascer-
tain the amount, it was necessaiv to slate the whole
amount of Loans to that period, and then deduct
the amount of Debts paid thereout ■, the balanca
constituted the true amount of anticipationa. By
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1515
HISTORY OF CONGRESS.
H. OF. R.J
SimdTy Bttriitesi — Adjoummtni.
this piocess, it was demonstrable that the true
uuounl at the end of 1794 whs only 1,733,615,
instead of 2,700,000, as staled by the geailemaD.
2. The second item related to the amount of
excess of aalicipatioDs during the year 1795. By
pursuiDg the same process, this appeared to be only
382,674, instead or 1,500,000, as stated by the gen-
tleman.
3. The third item aiose from a different view
taken by them as to the interest accruing on the
Domestic and Foreign Debt durine the year 1790.
This amounted to 1,400^000. On this point, it was
to be remarked^ (in addition to his former obserTa'
tioDs,) that while the genileman charged this item
as an increase of Debt, under the present Govern-
ment, he had omitted to credit the Treasury with
the sum actually produced by the surplus revenue
! of that year. That surplus, instead of being ap-
! plied to the discharge of the interest of the Foreign
j and Domestic Debt for 1790, was more profita-
: bly employed in buving up, considerably under
I par, the principal of the Domestic Debt. If, there-
I tore, it was right in the gentleman to charge that
' interest as an increase of Debt, it was equally so
to credit the Government with the whole sum pro-
duced by the fund, which was diverted from the
payment of that inteiesL This sum was about
1,700,000, but the gentleman had only credited the
Treasury for 957,000.
4. The last item was the interest of the Assumed
Debt for 1790 and 1791. It was admitted that this
was a charge against the Slates. Whether the
United States would ultimately recover from the
debtor States the whole of the balances due, was
a question not necessary then to be discu
could not, however, be a question whether a part
would not be recovered. These balances, and the
interest due thereon, at onlv four per cent., amount-
ed to upwards of four millions. Supposing that
only 25 per cent should be recovered^ il would be
a sufficient set-off against this item of (1,050,000
in the gentleman's statement of the increase of
Debt.
Mr. S. expressed his satisfaction that he had had
an opportunity, before the recess, of exhibiting a
more agreeable view of the finances than had been
done by the member from Pennsylvania, who had
taken uncommon pains to present a very melan-
choly one indeed. Mr. S. concluded wit^ observ-
ing, that, when he contemplated the very hMvr
unforeseen expenses incurred since the year 1791,
hj the necessary efforts for ^otection, and by un-
avoidable negotiations, the Western insurrection,
the long and persevermg obstructions to the col-
lection of the excise, and the aversion in that
Bouse to an augmentation of the revenues, be was
astonished, as well as delighted, to find that the
6nances were in so flourishing a situation, and that
the Goveraoienl had got along so well.
[In Mr. Smith's Statement of the Finances,
prmted at the foot of page 918, ante, the item,
'' Paid of Unfunded Debt. |5,O0O,0OO," should read
$500,000; and the corresponding alterations should
be made in adding tip the sums, so as to make the
balance beyond ordinary expenditures (13,900,000,
instead of il8,400,000.]
BUNDRT BUSINESS.
Mr. SwiNwioK proposed the following resoln-
lion, which was agreed to:
" iUtohed, That tha SecretKy of (h« Traonry be
directed to lij before this House a stalament of tba
drawback huT on the sundry dutiable articlea exported
from the United Sutei in the yean 1793, 17M, ud
179S, compared wiUi the amount of the dotiei colleetcd
on the BUue reapecttvely."
Mc SiTOHEAVEs, from the committee to whom
was referred the Message of the Prcbidbivt re-
specting the posts of Detroit and Michilimackinac,
reported that he had not been able to get the neces-
sary information to make a report ; therefore, be
moved that the committee might be dischai^ed;
which was accordingly done.
The Senate, by their Secretary, informed the
House that they had resolved that the bill for alter-
ing the time of holding the next session of Con-
gress do not pass.
The amendments of the Senate to the bill for
making appropriations for the Military and Naval
Establishments for the year 1796 were read and
agreed to. One of the amendments was to reduce
the sum for the purchase of horses from S7,500 to
|3,750 ; another was to reduce the sum for the de-
fence and protection of the frontiers from $130,000
to $100,000 ; the other was to conform the whole
amount to these amendments — tnakine it, instead
of $1,352,623, $1,318,773.
The Senate's amendments to the bill indemni-
fying the estate of Major General Greene from a
certain bond, were agreed to without debate.
Sundry resolutions were proposed and agreed to^
making additional allowances to the Serseani-«i-
Arms, Clerks, and Doorkeepers of the House for
the present session.
The House then adjourned till fire o'clock this
evening.
■VBNIHO BEBBION.
The Senate informed die Housf, by thnv Secre-
tary, that they had resolved that the Inll anthoiiz-
ingthe Prbsidbnt optbb Unitbp Statbb to lay,
r^fllate, and revoke embargoes, dnriog the ensil-
ing recess of Cimgress, do not reeelTc its third
reading to-day.
Mr. J. Smith, from the committee appointed to
wait UjKm (ha PiiBBtDERT op thb UMrrcn States,
to notjXy him of the intention of both Homes to
adjourn on this day, reported bis approfaarioa
thereof.
The burifleas before the Home being fiaished, m
easage was sent to the Senate, to inform ihem
that the House was ready to adjourn. Wbereapon,
after waiting some time to receiire any answer ibat
might be sent thereto, without receiving any —
The Spbaxbr adjoamed the House natil tke
first Monday in December next.
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INDEX
TO THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE FIRST SESSION OP THE
FOURTH CONGRESS.
Accountuit of the Woi DepaitmBiU, >
the Hniue altering tha coiiqwnwtiiai a(
read and tefened - - - - •
reid thinj tinM and paved . - - ■
Aota, raport mi Uum which will ei]nK bifi>ra the
SENATE.
Pai*.
referred t(
raporied with amendment and paaaed
AdjoarDmeat, resolutiaD tor, reeaiTed for o
rcaolaliou filing a time for - - -
ofthewMon
Appn^nations, a bill making, for the nppoit of
OoremmBnt for the year 17S0, raocived
OTdered to lliiid reading
nad twice and committed ■
reported and Meed
hill making, ibr eaiTTing into efihel the Trea-
ty with Ureal Bribdn, iccimd for
repMUd and paaaed • -
biU makiiv; additional, far te year I7M, th-
read the third tima and paMed - - -
Altonwy Qeoend? report fi^ reapeettiif Sonft-
weMeni landa, i«ad and referred
TBp«rtertlteeemn)itlee . . . .
rnoft ordered to be vinlfld . ^ ^
owUeniiitNl thoWpartroMd -
BbDch, Jidin, petition of, pr^inK grant of ape-
Bourne, SjWaniu, tall far AeraUafo^n
Brown, Sunoel, bill fai the relief ot, reeemd fat
81
rdbmd to eommittae - - -
reported and rejected .... 86
Bnoneea, onfini^ed, aMumittea appointed tam>
pmt on the, of lari ■otrioa - - ' M
report of the committee - - - • SS
joint committee appointed l« MfOrt on Aat
oeceaaary to be dons Iha panwut aaarion - 7T
report of the oommitlee > - ■ . TV
aids
reported
farther ammded bjr the Hoaae ...
amftkdmBnt eonciu'red in . ■> -
Chaplain, ^pointiiMat of -
Ciicait Oonrta, UH far alterins the aeMotN o^ in
TMfDotf Md Rhod* Hud, taeeitcd far
ported and referred to a fecial a
amended by the Houae
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INDEX TO PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.
If
Qttkih tlw Houn reoedca &om the ■nundment -
1^ ">«H"g an eitn allDwance to certun, uid
proTiding for tha widows of csftun deoeaa-
ed, nporled ------
bill read taccmd time and poa^ioiMd -
lead third time and puaed - - - -
CrirO, Charlet, late * priwnar at Algio^ pMition
o(, rafemsd to » cominiltee ...
CongiMi, hill to alter the time for Qm next meet-
ing ot, received for oMiconence
reported thai it da not paai ■ - .
Cooita of the United Slatea, a bill for increaang
the compeontiOD of tlie manhali, jurora,
At; dt, receiTed Cir coDcoiruiea -
leferred to comtnittes ....
npoited and paaml - . . - -
D.
Drill, a bill ibr the nlief of petaom imptiMiMid
(br, reported ------
itmd tliird time and paved . - - .
ameoded by tlieHoaee - - . .
Senate diaagree to all the anKmdmenta, ex-
cept the firat - - . . .
conmittee of conforenee ajifxrintad
amendments ci'ncorred in -
IMlta of the Uniled Btatca. a bill malting proTiiioii
for the pajment of certain, recated Ibrcoa-
enrreiiee ,..---
rriiirred to committee • ■ - - ■
amendmeDti reported and in part adapted •
bill lecommittcd . - - . .
Inrlher amended . . . . -
diaagreement of the House to toiae of the
aiuendments - ■ - ^ - - . :
Qommittee of confereoce appomted - I
report of the committee - - . . ]
District Attomej's, s bill to provide for the compoi-
salion of, reported - - . . .
read second t me and smended ...
postponed to next sesaon - - - -
District Courts, bill to continue die act fiH' ascer-
taining the foe* in, in certain casei, reoeJT-
■nMnded and passed - - - . .
Domestic Debt, a bill for Airther exlenmon of the
time for reoelTing on loan the, raoeiied for
ooncnmnce -■--■-
. i—rf
Drawback, a Inll limiting the time for allowing a,
on domestic sfHrita, receiTed for ctaicDirenoe - 1
refinred to a committee ... , ]
reported and passed - - . . . 1
E.
BOsmirth, Oliver, hii acoeptaaea of the ai^ioint-
ment of Chief Justice - . - .
. a bill antborning the Pmident to lay,
regulate, &"., during the reces^ receirad
for eoncuTrence - - - - - ]
bQl repotted without smerdment, and motion
for third resiling nagatiTed - - - 1
F.
French flag, resolutions relatini to the presentation
oT, to the United Stales, oflersd and da-
Prmch fl^, ftuther eonaderstion thereof - - 30
resolntiffii informing the President of the plea-
sore of the Saute St the receipt of tbia eri-
dence of the frieodly diipeeitiiMi itf the
Frtneh Republio . . - . ■ M
O.
Oallerii^ leeolDtioli permitting the Benate, to be
opened, subject to obi tain reatrictione - 11
Goods, wares, di«., an additional bill to ptsride
for the collection of the dnt « on imported,
arid for other ptuposea, iMeiied for concnr-
reforred to committee - - . - 81
atnendments reported . - - - B8
amendments adc^iled - - - - - M
biUpeaaed - S7
House disagree to the anKodmeDt* - - lOS
the Senate recede . - . . . IM
Great Miami riTer, • bin rehtire to a ooImb por-
tion of land tiear the month of Oie, receiv-
ed and reEnred ----- IIS
reported and loat - - - - - 114
GrecDG, General Nathsnie], a hi
dfot
Hsstings, Jonsthan, bill for allowing extra coot-
penntion to, received for cancarrenoe
referred to committee - - - ■ ■
amendmmt reported - - . . .
billrejecl«l -...-.
floiws killed in battle, bill' sUowing s compom-
tion to officers for, received for eonaurence
referred to cammitlee - - - - -
reported without amendment - - .
the bill paaaed ----..
Howell, John, petition of, praying that nsvems
officers maj be placed upon the Kill Naval
Eattblidiment, read and nfcmd -
I.
Indians, a ImU making proviaton lor lliii jinijii—
of trea^ and trade with, repoMsitnai^ and
ordered to second rrading . . -
read secood time snd referred . - -
reported without anjcndrntnt and laid on the
table ----- - .
a bill for establidung tradtng-honaes with, re-
ceived for Gtmcitrrence - - - .
read third time and commiUed - - -
amendinents reported . . , -
biJ puaed as immided - - . .
disagmment of the House to ooe of Am
amoDdments ■ - - - -
insisted on by the Seosto - - - -
committee of conference appointed
report of the committee adopted - - .
s bill to ragnlate trade and ii '
received for tkncurra
referred to eomimttee
rq>ort(d wiihout ai
report adopted -
bill passed
Intareoune with foreign nations, aUIl n
ther provision fiir, a»d ta
mer act, received for ct
.dbyGoogle
INDEX TO PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.
report adopkd -
lackwm, OwigeE-.a biUfinUieidief og nociT-
i»ien«d to MmmiUet - . . .
npoited and raieeted . .' - _
Jonn, Samuel, tad otbsra, petition of, in behalf of
emigruita from Wr1e(, laid on the taUa -
Jndkial Uourta, abUItoraptnt pait erf' tbe act for
establiihiiunt a(, leceiTed for c<Hiciinenoe
ordenMl to ■ third reading ...
bUer from the Oowtraoi, and mnaa-
rial from RepiMentaliiw of - - .
refoTbd to a cooiiDittee . - . _
rq>ort of the committee regd ...
eoDuAeralitm t^the report - . M, 06,
report adopted --..._
rendntioQ requeuing the Tko Prarident to
trat^nuit a copy of the report to tha Gorer-
a bilL aUowing forther compenaatiou to the
U. B, Attome; in Um Dirtriet OS, recmred
reporCed and paawd ....
Sing, Charley petitioD of, and othen, placing ea-
taMiriunent of an offlce li» the licanala^
&e. of vbimIs, read and refenod
King, RuChi, hii aceeptaace of the appOiDtiBaiit m
Miniater to England ....
L.
Ltwi of the Uniled Statei, report of the committae
q>pMnled to tnqaire what lawa would ex.
pile baibre the nait meeting of Congran .
a bill for the mora gsneral promnlgation o(
nad Grat and aeentd time ...
read third time and paiw^ ....
iMftty ThorwaatCo,,
laid oTk the Utile
in act of the
referred tc „„„,™.,
Loring, loael, bill for relief o^ racMred for con-
currence, read, and refeired -
teported wiAout amendment and pM«d
Hwyland, a bill to eontint
couaent of Congrei
State o^ racMTed fore.
read Uie tbird time and paivd .
MmiMra of CongnM^ a bUl icg aUoning compen-
Mliao to, raenrad lor concnrrcmce -
poetponed ......
read third time and paaMd - . .
HatchanU, memorial of aandiy, aikijig compenn-
tioD tor de]Kedationa committed by Srit^
croinri, read and laid on the table -
Heange fiom the PiaMdent, in relation to, andac-
eompanjing the French fl^ preaenled to
the United Statea s«
in lelation to the Public BuildiiigB - - 38
in reUlion to the reduction of the weight of
copper coins .... .40
truumitung a letter in reladoa to the deaigiu
of certain parums in regard to ttie Chero-
kee landa •-...- u
traniraiiling a cc^ of the Trea^ with Great
Britain ...... 4g
fitanamilting a M^ofthe Trea^wiA Al-
gie™ ---.-..60
in relation to the peaoe with Algun - - 61
tranamitling the trwulatiwi of a lelta- from
the Preach Miniater
mitdn^a copjr of the Treaty widt Spain
lalion to the Teniloiy SoothwMt of the
tianamitting a leltar from Attorn^ Ganval -
rejecting the axtcttaion of the tiril aolhoritr
of the Horthweatani Tenitoty - . i.
in relation to tha eipraaes in aoj^oit <d tat-
bill for the relitf a( received
- 58
• BO
Military Eitafaliahment, bill making partial appro-
priation* for tha Bupport of th^ lecaJTed
lepotled with amendmanta .
dingreament of H. R. to amendmmli
committee of conlerenca ^pointed
certain modiScatioiu reported ...
raport adapted and the bill amotded accord.
'ng'y
Mihtaiy and Naval Eatabliihment, a bill making
appropriiitionB for the support o^ receirad
id to
I third ti
,.
reported with amendmi
and pnaeed - . . -119
Military aervicea, a bill regulating grants of linil
for, reccired for concuireoce ... 90
reporteJ with amandmenla - . - - 108
PM»ed - - 118
Hint, a bill for the regulation of the^ and for the
puniabment of couaterfeitem, reported - 68
recommitted ..-..- 7((
a new bill reported . - - . . 97
p»«od - . . . . _ 100
amended by H. R - . - . .108
amenilnienta concurred in - - . - lOS
Myew, Mows, a bUl fi>r the relief o( teoNved kt
coDcunence - - - - . SI
,db,Googlc
INDEX TO FSOCEEDUCGS in the 8BRATE.
• bill mppkiaaitai; U
«, npoiUd -
NtiduriKiii, J
, John, petition □( prajing i certain
datj on gliM, laid on the t«bl*
Nolth Cuolina, till making oertHin proriaioni in
TBgard to the Circuit Conit for tbe Dis-
trict c^ (aMcd - . - - -
O.
Offlem, B tali to prarida br the wi4owi and or-
phana of eeitain, who died from woniidi,
leceiTed for cc
taUr^eded
Offican and loUien, a bill Aw Iha nlief of oertdn,
woosded in Iha leTTice of U. B., received
for omemnBoa, and rafemd to conunitlee
Rportadwilhavt amatdnNnl, mad thiid Ums
Ootbwir, a bin to lafalate pnMMffingi in eaeea
oif^ npovted, read fint and meoad time,
r, fiir diipa and tbmcIi of
^Tfomi I
rqicated with ai
ioa Lia^ a biU directing the Seczebij of
War to plMB certain veraeiu on Iba. re-
bill paaaed with amendioanta . . -
one of the unendments diaagreed to bj H.
R-, boat wfaidt tbe Beoata recadM -
Port Officea eod Port Road*, & bill in addition to
Ula act for eitabtiihing the, ncatTod Iqi
llu^ &(Hn Portland to
OKnuag Ou
hi* replj to the addran of the Senate -
ident'a Meaaage. (See Huiagi')
V^Ki, a bOl to percnt Iha aale o( brought into
pMti of the D. 8. by foreign lenela, re-
ceived br concnmnoe - - . .
refeired to committee . . - .
reported and amended - - - .
PnUic Credit, a blD in addition to the ac
port 0^ received for eonciuience
nrarred to conmiillea
teported and read third time
Becoaa, reaolulicai for aj ,
to notifr the Presdsat of Dw intended, m-
ceiTed and concorred in • 1 14
Berenne Cnttsra, a bill making farther pntrimmt
idative to, MOBiTed fbr eoacnRcncD - - 74
- - . . . , 76
Spimg^ a bill to en^ower the Seoelaijof
the Tr»M»ry to kwe the, in die Tenikcr
NoTdiwe*tofdie(Nuo, TeoeiTad fir coDcni-
raported, and motion tx the third luaitii^^ ne-
galiwd
Siyre, Stephen, menMrial o( prennted, lead, and
MO, a bill fbr the reliif and
laidMt the table
report agreed to, and the bill anwdii a
ingly ...---
flaaia, I<An, bill for n^ti, recHTad far o
r^orted and reieoMd
Silta, J. R., petition at, pnaenled, read, and laid
OD the table ------
a tall for the relkf (rf, receired for cmon-
aUildng Fund, repent of ^ ComnuMOMn ef Ae,
laid bcfim flu Senate . - . -
Snuff and raflaed aogar, a bill to amend the act
laying dntiea on, recdTed fbr a
referred - - - - -
mdsed to a third reading -
Honae RyaaaatatiTM diaag
oommittee of conference ^ipoinln)
report of tbe committee ad<^(ed > - -
Society afUmled Brelhnii,abillregalatiivgiaDti
of lasd* appmpriatad fbr tht^ receired far
eonenncQc^ read, and reftned
UMndmetiti reported - . - -
fotlher aoMnded . . - - -
a the iMt •
.dbyGOOgle
INDEX TO PBOCEEDinOS IN THE SENATE-
Somanall, William, and otbeiv, manorial o^ n>d
anid referred la the Becretaij of Btalc
Speed), the Freradent'i, read - . - -
conmuttee appointed to prepare an anawer
t^ott of the committee . - . -
OPDAderatiia ti the report . - - .
repmt agreed la .....
Jt\Aj of ths Preaidant ....
I^eiiben, Baron, a bill for latiB^iiig the claim at
* ' e late, leeeived for con-
Kfwtlwi and njected .--.-:
Stewart, Waltra, and otben, memorial horn, read
and referred -.---.
Stilla^ a bill pnindiiig relief to the ownera q4 tb-
■eooDd readio
amendmanla rqMvted, and tall paaaed -
Strother, Senjamiii, a tall for the relief o^ raotired
for craennance, read, and referred to eom-
lepoTted and paaaed . . > - .
T.
THaweQ, Henry, elected PnmieatpnUm. (rfthe
Senate
Twmnwee. report of the a
raftned the Meaaag
tire to the admianon o^ into the Unim -
!biMiid«ntion of the report - - - _
finAet cofwdecalioD poa^ened . . -
eonajderatiou of the report remnned, and ami'
dry motioiia made to ■■^fM«^ it -
K^rtadopted ......
eommittee ai^iointed to hring In a bill in ae-
cordanoB therewith - . - . -
bill fanMght in -
fundi; moliona to amend it - - -
afflfiwp* ""^ rt— *^ - - - . .
Tenitnnr Nordiwcat of the Ohio, a bill praridiiig
Mr die aala (rf" landi in Um, leoeiTad G^ con-
rafcrred to eommiKee '. . - •
ordered to tUtdreadhig . . . -
Mneoded and paaaed . . - • -
smaiuhnBnta racaTed for ctmeorraioe -
eooearred in, wiA one exception, iikd OMumit-
tee ^ Mnferenc« i^pwnted - > •
Hooae RepieaentatiTea lacede from the anmd-
ment diMgread to by (he Senate
Treaamj Department, commonicationB raocned
fhun the Secretary of the ...
leaolntioii diractii^ the Secretary o^ to piqiare
and r^ort, annually, retunia <^ unporta
■ndezporti .-.-..
Tnatka, a ball making appioprialiMia for Ihe ex-
p«nBea of a Treaty with cotain Indian
. tciboi^ received for umcoiTence
committed .---.-
reported and paMed • ■ . ■ .
a bill making appr^rialiatt* fbi die Tn»l^
with AJgieia, recet*ed ....
reported and paned .....
with Spain, received - . ■■
reported, and paaaed with amendment!
Tttginia, bill declaring the conaent of Congreaa to
•n act of the State o^ for the mppoit of a
Marine Hoi^tal, read and refated -
War Dcfwrtment, eonununicalion receired from
the, contHning certain «tatemenla -
raulation calling upon Secietaiy o^ £a a
atatemeat of die Military force embayed
in the western coontka of Fmn^Irania -
Secrelary'i aiwwer receiTed ...
Wa^ngton City, a bill anlhoiiing a loan for the
n^iorted without amendment ...
conaidcratirai of the report, and aondry mo-
tiona relative thereto ' - ^-
Inll ordered to third reading ...
Wmgtila and Heaanre^ a hill directing certain ta-
perinMnta to bemadefbrtfaeptupoMof ob- .
tatning a anibrm itandaid <% reoand fi>r
relened to committee .....
fiinher conMderstion of the bill poa^Kmed to
White, Right Reverend Biahi^ ^)p<unted Ch^
Wbil^ Anthony Wallon, memorial o^ read and
reconaidHttion rftbebiU ....
poatponed to next aeavon ....
Widows and Orphaui^ a bill fin rcdief of oerti^
Teaa and Naja, o
don ot the letter IriHn the QomntB' of
Kentucky -.--..
on die queedon of adopting the report of the
eomoiittee in regard to aaid latter
on the molian to amend the bill for rt£ef and
piotectiMi li
a loan for the City
.d by Go Ogle
INDEX TO PEOCEfiDmCB IN THE SENATE.
u and Nays, <hi nindiy motioni lelaliTe to Bud
InU 76, 77, 78
on ths pamge of the bill - - - 7S
oa an unendmuit to the bill to r^olala intn-
conne willi tba Iiiiliui bibei - - - SB
ontkepMngeofwid bill - - - -' 89
on amoiidiDfati to the bill making proTiaon
fbrpayiiKititafcettaindebUofUiutodButM 91
on the punge ofthebill- - -SB
M) ainraidnicnti to ttMnprattfthe comininu
nmectiiiganewSuteSoatliirMtoftlksOhio 91
umd NaTi^ on the adoption of the nport
on Ibe uDdndmoiti of HouM BeptMentatiTca
to the bill foi relirf of peiwmi imisieoaed
for debt
on amendmaits to the bill lajinRont into one
Btate the tenitoy ceded bj be Sule of
Noith Carolina • • - - ' - 1
on the pawage of the bill - . - -
Ml the reaolution to admit the Soiaton torn
.dbyGoogle
INDEX
TO THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE
FOURTH CONGRESS.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
Pige.
AocomiiHrt of the War Dapwlmea^ iMototiau
re^oetiiig dw, prtaanted ... Sfl7
nfemd SB9.BT0
bill fin •Itering the a^nfenmtioa ol, npnted 1349
utMndmcat propoMd - .... 1848
■mmidmnit nifatiTed, ind the UU pwnd . ISiS
■mfliided bj the BeiwM - • • - U16
SBasiB receJe fiinn Ike mmcadawnt - - t417
AdditiDD*] Rerenae, apart from die Cammitlee of
y/tjt and M«uu raepectmg the meamna
necvMeij fbrniang - - 781
drtMe on the rapott 841
leeolationB nporled b; the eiHiiinitlaa, • 8H
AMitm in reply to the Prende&f ■ Speech, dnA
of, repoited IM
ncominitted ...... 144
reported end igreed to - - - - 148
onnmittee appnnted lo wait on the Prari-
dent ihenwilh 148
deli>ei7 of the Addnna .... Ifi4
PrMdant'a reply Ibento ... - IDS
AdjonmiiMnt, reaolnlion reifecliag Um appdnt.
DMnt of a committee to leport a jpoper time
for ISM
nftort of the eommitlee . - ■ - 1S98
raaolutioQ Bring ■ time far, laid an the labia 138S
■llentioQ of the time fixed fin ... I3S1
Senate diniree to the reaolution . - - 1400
reedution (iom the Senate, fixing a time tor,
receJTed for ocsKoirance . ... I486
coacurred in - - - - - - 1474
Admiaaioii of Tennaaea. (See Tianeuee. )
Agent for foieign eipendituica, reaoluliaii reaped-
ins the expediency of appoioting an, re-
fiorted --.-..- 1403
consideration thereof poatponad .
Algien, a copy of the Treaty with, laid on the
UblB
taken up-
committal to Committee of the Wbde
tiill makiag appropriatioiu to defray the ei-
penKa <^ the Treaty, preiented . - 1II9&
KU poMHi IMO
American SeameD, bill for the relief o^ preaeiited
B^d committed - , . . .
debate on the biU - - - . SOS to SSO
motion to recommit negatired, and the bill
amended by the Senate ....
Senate amendmeota referred to a aded oom-
mittee 1114
committee of conlnence appointed . . 12M
report of tbe rrrmmittrie .... 1433
Pagn.
^aeriean Seamen, a letter and londry papen tda-
tire to impreasment at, tefned lo the Se-
cretary ofStale - - . . . 1408
Anwa, Mr., remaiki of^ on. the bill '■"''"■[j prori.
aion for a Naial Armamenl ... 881
on the reaolntioii for carrying into cdect the
Trenly with Oraat Britain 1S89 to ISOS
AmMerdam, report on the petition of tbe Vice
Corned at 1890
Af^^niatiraia, report o^ fn Uie year eeraotecti
hondred and ninety-vz, read and rrfareJ
to Committee of the Whole - - . SSO
oonunittee appolalad to bring in a bill pnira-
anttbareto -' S49
bin reportad and debated . - - S68 to SOS
itaracatiw
lefiay expcmna of majiat
into (Act the late Tnaliea between United
Statea and Spain, '"H with certain ^'^r**
tribea, paned 1084
bill iMl±ig addUmal, for the year 1796, ra-
portad 147K
debated 1487, 1490
AReaiBgea of Army pay, debate in Ooinmittaa of
the Whole on the saljeot of - . - S9S
AttonMys, United StaM^, letter from Dw Attw-
aej General relatire to the compenMlian
- ■ ■ ItST
1480
Balier'a Iiland, (Mtaaaehuaetta,) bill antboiiiiDg
the enctiMi of a light-hooee on, pnaenled 799
paaeed Blfi
Baldwin, Mr., temarka of; on the Tiea^ with
Great Britain ftSS
COTreqMHidence of, with General Gnnn - 780
remarka of, respectiog Mr. Frelinghoyaen - 790
on the rqiort of the Committee of Prln-
legea 798
Bank oftbeirniled Btste<,bill making proriiiou for
the debt due, preernted and referred - . BBS
debate on the bill - - . . 9U, 910
a reaolution for appointment of a committee
to inquire whether the Bank will be wil -
linjt lo continue the loatu heretofore made
to Goremmen^ laid on the t^e - - 9B1
reaolution Uken up, agreed tt^ and the com-
mittee ^poinl^ ..... 1004
bill miking prortaian for tiie debt due the
Bank, racomanitled - . . . |I40
1195
.dbyGoogle
INDEX TO DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE.
Pige.
Bank of the United Statet, inswer of llie Bank
to the mqnirj of the committee befOTe
mentumed ----- - 1S96
bill for the paynwDt of the debt doe the Benk,
ordered to thiid reading - - ■ • laOO
U1I pueed 1813
Bankliiptc;, committee ^)pointed to bring in « bill
to ertabliih on nnifonn sjrMem of -
bill btooght in . . . . -
Baibaiy States, reeolmion mHking mppTopriatiDnB
forcanpogintoefbctTreatiea with the • I33B
Bard, David, report of the Committee of Blectioni
in the nae o^ laid on the table - - 78&
Baaaett, BnrwaU, petition o^ comiriuning of the
nndne election of John Clopton, refsired
Biith-^j, WaihingtonV modion to a^ionni in
htmor of, negiitiTad . . - -
Bhnm^ Mr., reeolatkiM oj, ratpacting the Trerty-
making power and c*Uh b; the Hooae upon
the SiecDtiTo for infbnnatioa
Boaidic^ J. Marie de, petition o^ prearaitad andieid
refand to Committee of Ctaiiu
Boiinw,Mr.,anitteTrea^withOreacBiitain -
on taiatioa ......
on the Naval Armament bil]_ ...
OB the naolntjm for carrying into eftct the
Tnaty with Great Britain • - - 1
Biaachof Privilegt^ certunpapcninnlatiDD toa
caee (< laid <hi the table - - . '
rafttred to the Committee on' PdTilegea
rt of the o(
raportof ibe
nt, Mr., nanaifca i>( oa (he tall t» anttuiria* a
loanfinibeoMirflbeCi^ofWaahington 838
Britirit Tnaty, petitiaiii, tor and against canying
the Trea^ into eflbct, preaented and lefei-
led - - - 1114, llTl, 1298 1104
rtatwiMnt riunring the true aenae of the
HoDae aa to the axpedieiKT «f canyingthe
Treaty into eilect t2S0
(8«B, alao, Onat Britain.)
Bade, Daniel, depoailioa o4 in the caae of Robert
HandaU SOS
Bock, Mr., ramaika a( on the Tiea^ with Great
Britain 430, TOS
Btuioeaa, canouttee appointed to r^ort on the
nnfiui^edbuaineaBof the laataeMion - 130
report read and laid on the table ' - - 133
tatenup 167
Butler, Gen. Richard, report on the petitian of
the eiecntora of the late, reJened to Com-
mittee of the Whole .... 1388
Pag».
Canadian Refngeee, i«p«t on the petitiati of cti-
tain, conndered ----- 8t7
C^e Cod, bill for erection of a li^O-bonae on,
reported ------ 1X98
paaaed 1»»
Cairiagee, committee appointed to re|iart what al-
Ittll for laying certain dutiea on, and rqiaal-
ing the former act, preamted - - - 7W
paaaed 1330
unended by the Senate . . - - 140S
Challenge. (See BraiiA of Pneiiegt.)
Cben^ee Treaty, certain resolations idalive to the
l»nil. ceded t»lbe Infiaoaby ll|^ laid on
thetabls 93»
Chriatie, Gabriel, decUration of; in the cm> of
Randall and Whitney - - . - 3t0
nit Conrta, bill making cotain pnmaiona r»-
^MCtin^ in N. Carolina, read the Ihind.tiiiM BOt
bill altering the time for holding, in Vamellt
and Shode Uaod, i^ntted, read twice aai
Cleit of the Howe, i..
Olarfcs, leeotntion for appointment of ■
i^oitof tbeei
biUfbTtheiaUefofce
farrod
tall frmn the Senate regoUtiiig th« conf«
ticn at, noeirad for oerunmenca
nfaied lo Coomittee of the Whd« -
refaied to Committee of Ways and Hea
It r^wiled - - - -
lallp
committee of nrr,lwamnrr, appointtd
r^MTtif the committee ...
emuideiation of the bill nlknring extra oc
- 1339
- I3T6
- I4W
. 1418
. 14M
- 1460
■ 14«S
bill poB^mned to nsxt bcmoi
Clopton, John,, petition cotntdain
ot, preaented end
of Electiona -
hisaeat
the Tieaty with Gnat
«&4
Cott, Mr., rema^ o^
on die UllbrreliBfandprolectian to Ameri-
can K«men ... - 8DS 8U
on the Mil lo aulhorin a loan for the oie of
the Ci^ of Waahington - - - BSS
on the reaolntion for carrying the Tiea^ with
Greet Britain into eflect - 114*
Comnurce and Hami&etuna, Committea oC *^
pointed - - - - .-.*•*•
reiiiilutitHi inatnictingtheooauiulleatoinqnira
and npoitwbataltatBliaiiBareitecewat^iii
tiie lawi rdaling to commerce and ■«■■-
getion, referred ----- MT
aaid inquiry postponed to the tMOt arariBW • 1375
,db,Googlc
INDEX TO DEBATES AIO) PSOCEEDINQ8 IN THE BODSB.
xnu
the table
tiken up and debalad
en, resolution to liter tbfl
meeting of, lu^tiveil - - . -
baequent leeolotion fbi aarDe puipoie adopt-
UIl Gxing the time for next meetiiig o^ te-
ported and paned - - - - - I<
Mjectad b; tbe Satiate > - - - IJ
Cmlested Election. (See BicW<£t, JbAn; Lgm,
Maiihew,- Battett, BunotS,- and Vamtin,
J.B.)
Ctoteited Blectiona, rMolntioD req;>ectuig a mode
of taking evidence ia caaei of^ referred to
Committee of JGlections - - - I
Co<9er, Mr., remaiki o^ on the Treatj with
Great B'ntain I
on tbe r«aplutton toe canTiug tbe Ti««^ into
eSeet K
Cox, Z., and othen. petition c/C, praying ■ grant of
money to etioble Ibem lo carry on inter-
eourw with certain Indian Tribea, referred
P-f-.
DiMUMSpJiit^TeprntoftbeeannuttaedweOD - B«S
rMolutiiKi agraed to, and committee appoint-
ed to bring in a bill accordingly - - 1 1 IS
bill pieiented .'...- 1140
piWid ISH
Diatrict Coarta of PennaylTania, bill for repealing
aputoftbeactrelatiTe to the, reported 1399
paned - 1813
■meatic Debt, a tnll for farther cateDdin^ the
time fill receiring on loan the DonuMic
Deb^ raporied aod commilled - - 308
motion reapecting tbe mode of paying inlar-
eittbereoa -.--.. 808
ramuderatianaftbebiJl ... - 807
tall ordered to third lea^ng ... 810
paaaed 311
Dottaldaon, Andrew,
preaaed into the Britiah
from read and refeired -
currod in
puaed I'
Senate amendmenta agreed to . - . 1
CtMom-honae officen^ conaideralion of tbe patitioD
of sundiy, deferred to next aaanon . - I
D.
Dirden, Amy, petition o^ fraying eompenaalion
for a yalnable hone unpiesaed during the
WW, reaommitled . . - ■ - \
Daytoit, Jonathm, elected Speaker -
lanaAao^ oa the lulject of direct taxe*
on the leeolntian tot carrring into effect die
'Treaty with GtttfBritJn - - 1
Debt, bill from the Senate fbr relief of per-
aona impciaoned for, received - - -
tareportad . - • . t
. >d, ii diagreed to tn dw
Senate, and tbe Hooae of Sepa. recede -
UlpaMd
Mnunittee of confereitea appointed
T^oit of the committee agreed to - -
IMrta <rf tbe United Biatea, tal! making proviiion
for the payment of certain, amended by tbe
Senate
coniideration of the amendments 1430 ti
Ibrther debate thereon ....
tee of conference appcHDtad
m the report of the eommiEtee -
eodto ....
r, debate relative to the cmction o
Direct Tuea, debate on the auljed of
■. 138C
1 1488
- i4eo
referred to Commitles on Commerce and Han.
I Letter
. 79B
- 1»7
bill limiting the time allowed (br.
- \%U
nputcd - 1418
raaolntion Ealling npon the SecRtey «f tb«
Tteaiary for a atatenent of the drawbw^
paid on laiidrTdnliabtearticleaaqiatted ia
tbe yean 1798, 1794, and 1795, agiMd to IfilS
Dnmon, Ji^ B., rwort on the petiliui (tf - US
has leave to withdraw it - - . - SS9
Dnvall, Gatvifd, (Hd.) roagnation of - - SOS
E.
Electiotu, oommitlee of, appointed . • - 137
reaolutian ^ving certain powen to tbe earn.
miUee, reported and paaaed ... 166
Embargoes, reaolulioD for appointment of ■ eom-
mitlee to report a bill to autboiiie the Pm-
aidnt to lay and r^nlate ambargoca dur-
ing the reeeaa of Congrea, agreed to, and
dielill tqwrted 1417
bill ordered to be engrotd ... I4W
paaad 1438
Bansle resolve (hat it do not faat to the third
reading .--._- 151A
Enndled bitl^ committee appMnled to ezamine . 388
Exdse law^ reaolutions reapeding, Isid on Ske
taUe 398
Bxecntion of Treatlei, debate respecting the, 940, 3S1,
97S
- 1490
Findley, Mr., remaAso^ im Ihs resolutiaa fbr esr-
lying into cAct the Trea^ with Great
Britain . . 1106, 1114, 13H
Foreign c□rreq^ondMM4^ Heasige from the Praai'
dent on ibe anlject of an additional appro-
priation for aoiqiort of, i«ferred to Commit-
tee of Ways and Means .... 1466
report of the committee . * - . 1476
debate theretm ...... 1487
.dbyGoogle
nrDEX TO DEBATES AND PBOCBEDIKfiS IN THE HOUSE.
FortiCiMtiaiu, military rtona, lie, TosolatiaD fin ■
committee to take into coniidention the
■tatc 0^ agreed to, ao^ committee appninlad
letter from the Secretary of War on tbe anb-
jectof, refcried to a comn '
report on the mbject of
connderation of the report
Committee of tlie Whole iliachargeil fiojn fiir-
ther conaideralion of the report
FtNter, Hr. Dnight, remt^ o^ on the readU'
(ion fur carrying iutoafied the Treaty with
Great Britain . . - . .
Fteaniali, Mr., rema^ o^ on Oie Trsa^ with
Great Britain _ - - -
Frelinghuymi, Mr., letter fivm, to Mr. Baldirin
to the Speaker of the Honae
to the chairman of Committae of Frivilegea
Fnnch flag, preaenution (if the, to the Govern-
ment of tha United Statee
■ddreaa of the French Miniiler -
annrar of the Freaident of the United
D the
OtUitin, Mr., nmarki of, o
tbe
393
nlandofficea • - 413
on Ihe Treaty with Gi'at Brituu, ■ 437, 471
cm the bill fiw protection of American aeamen 606
on direct una - - - - 846
on the tin supplementary to the actio proride
a HaTal Armament . . - . 86S
on the bill to r(^[ulate inlereouraewith Itie In-
dian tribes aos
on the bill msking pravieion for the d^ due
the United Hulea Bink - - -931
on the reaolutioQ for canying into afbcl the
TrtnlywithG eat Britain - - -1183
on the ital« of the financfB - - . ISog
Gilbert, Mr , remarta o^ on tbe Trea^wilh Great
Britain 676
oa tha reaolution forcanyiog the Tna^ into
eflect H03
Gilaa, Mr., depoaiUon o^
remarks of, on the Treaty inth Great Bri-
tain 600, 60!
on tbe bill for protection of Amoriom aeamen 809
on tile resiiluliDn for nnylog the Treaty with
Great BriUin imoeSect - - - - 1035
Ooodhne, Mr,, remaiks of, on tbe resolution for
cairying the Trea^ with Griet Britain
intoe&ct ...... IDOS
Goodrich, Mr, remark* o', od the Tre>^ with
717
Goodwin, Uanie], report on the pctjiian of, taken
npand iliacDHsed - . ■ -
Qaremment offices, motion for sppoinbnent c
cotamitteeto in qui e and report what alli
tinns are necvnery in the, laid on the table 308
Great BTilain. debate on he resolution for carrying
Into effect the I'reory with, 969,076, 1004, 1025,
lOBO, 1005, 1116, lUfi, IITI, 1S03, 1SS8,
naolution of Mr. Madaj, respecting the ii
eiped ency, at preaent, of pas-ing the lawa
nersaaarj for carrying Tr«ity into efiect •
1364
Great Btilain, Hr. Haclay'l iMiJntion rtfatingto
the Trealy with, rebmd to tbe Committae
of the Vi\uA» 974
itatMienl ihowing the unsa of Oie Hooae aa
to IIiB erpediency of carrying the Tieaty
into effect IMO
reaolu'ioii for carrying the Trtatf into efled^
pa Willi in fnmmiftnf of the Whole, and re-
ported to the Houn . . - . 1380
proposed amendmaDt (0 the tesolulion ddwted. 139S
rejection of the amendment ... IHS
yeaa artd nays on adoption of the reeolotiiiii,
and Maiemeit showing the tme sense <f
the House relstire thereto ... mi
a mil to d^«y the aipeiuee of tarrying tbe
TVeaty into effect, reported, read twic^ ^^
and ordered io be engriaaed - . - ISfS
paiKd IMS
Gi«ene, Goi. Nadtanid, report on the petitica of
the widow a( ihe late, referred to Commit-
tee of the Whole 1374
atatemrait of facts relative to the daimof - i4M
a bill to indemnify the eatate o^ lepixled • 1438
passed ....... 1450
Senate amendmenti agreed to ... 161S
Griiwdd, Mr,, i«matks of, cd the teaojalion tat
carrying the Treaty with GremI Britain into
effect 1178
Giinn, Mr. , correspoodoice of with Mr. Baldwin 7M
letter from tg Ibe Speaker - - - 789
Gnyei, Frederick, report on the petition of, mHag
pecuniary aid to enable him to prooecate hia
lesBitches lelatifa to the discorery of the
longitude, read, and leave granted him to
withdraw hia popen . - - - 388
Horpar, Mr., remarks o^ on
American seamen . . - . noi, a
on tbe Treaty with Great Britain - 467, 7
on the bill for protection of Americui aeoMn 8
on tbe ajsteni of direct taxation - - - 8
Hartley, Mr. , rem*^ d^ on the Treaty with Gntf
Britain 4
Hata, pelitiona from certain manufacturers a( jnf'
ing an additional daty on imparled, pn-
■ented and relerred - - ■ - SE
Havena,Mr., remorkacf, on ttie Trea^ wilhGieal
Britain ...... 4
Health officer, bill rqHiTted to continna in fiRoean
act for the apptuntmant of an health offiear
Baltimore ... - . . 11
billpi
Heath, Mr.-, remarka o^ on the Tre«^ with GiMt
Britain - - - - . - '
on tbe resolution for canying tbe Treaty into
el^ct ~ \
Hendoreon, Mr., remarks of, on the reacdulion for
carrying into eflect the l^eaty with Great
Hitlhouae, Mr., on tbe bill to regulate interooone
with the Indian tiibei - - - .
on the bill making proiision for tha <Iebt doe
the Bank of the United States ...
Hogan, Edward, poTition o^ requesting to be ad-
mitted ai StGuographer to thii House, pr«-
HoUand, Mr., remarka oC (m lbs Trea^ willt
Great Britain . . - . .
,db,Googlc
INDEX TO DEBATES AMD PBOCREDmOfl IN THE HOUSE.
XXll
MoOtai, Mr., nnnAi U,
lyiog tile Treat; into eOect
on tbe bill to legulate '
' 1139
■m IdUed in battle, raadntioD for making com-
penMtion to ofiican for, igrsed to, and a
bill for that pmpaae pnasnWi] ' - 1115, II4D
IriUpiaed 1SS9
T»>itian«, eoaunittee qipmnted to bring in a bill for
eatiUiihing trading-houacB with ths
rtfurt of ths mmmittse .... 170 j
debtts in CammiltM on the bill - - •
KjIcheQ, Mr. , ramarki on the nxdntion for cairj-
iog the Treat; with Great Briliin into
sfbct 1173
KiUera, Mr., remitka of^ on tba raiolQtion for
(wrjint the Treaty with Qraat Britain
iutoBflect ...... list
biUpeMd
Senate amendnwpta received
amendmeDta disgreed to -
a new bill pnaeoted - - - .
Senate amendmenli conudered -
•cane aftheamendmenla agreed to, andn
intercoune with
bill recommitted
fiiither debate on the
bill ordentd to be «ii
lull for eanying into eflec
lain, preasDied
ordered to be 111^1111 11
Indian com, naohition lor prevaoting the exporta-
tion o^ laid on the table
taken np, amended, and referred to a eoni'
mittee of fifteen . - - - .
n^rt of the committee read and adapted
biterconiae with foreign nationa, eotamittuB ap-
pointed to bring in a bill to cootinne the
act making proriiion tor - - , 1S40
bUln
1349
dsbiled 1S9S to 1<06
piBicd .-...., 1400
Jntanal Rarenne, cooaidtration of the rrport tf
the Committee of Waja and Meana on the
anlgectof 1347
finthnconiiderBtion of the report. - - 1869
bill ts provide for the moreeSiMDa] ccdieetian
o^rcfortad UlS
Innlid Feaiooea, npixt reapaetiag certaiD, con-
■ - - - 484
- «!»
d ordered to be angrosed
KidiMf^nng, reeolution for the pmeotion o^ pfa-
eented and agreed to • - • - 1036
Kitdidl, Mr., rama^ ot, an the Treaty with
Great Britain - - - - - SSS
on hii reaolniioni relaliTe to dte Trea^-
making power ..... 760
367
coniiderationrf the bill - 338,334,338,346
bill amtnded S4B
debated - • - - SCO, 40S, 408, 418
bill reeomnutted - . . . . 4SS
new bill reported 803
cmadared ...... BBS
Lafoyette, General, naolntioa leapecting the aon
a( laid on (be tible - - - - 4>S
leaolotjan taken ap, agreed to, and acommit-
toe qipoinled punnant thereto - . 788
report of ihe oommittae .... IMS
a letter from ibe a n of - - . IMS
Lawa of the United iStalei, reaolutimt relaliTe to.
tetabli
144
the mora general promulga-
tion of, rdorred to a cotomittee - - 1 489
repmt of the cnmmit'ee . . - - 1498
Senate biU rejednl 1498
Light-honaea, dux, hill oontinae in force Ihe act
for aupport of, 'eportod - - - - 1 375
LiTingaton, Mr., rematVa o^ on the impreoament
(^American aeaBien . . - 382, 387
on the Treat; with Great Britain - 41li, 638
CD the bill for Ihe relief of American leamea 803
Loon, reaotution relatlTe to the tew for receiving
Babacriptiona to the laat Government, laid
on taWe .-.-.. 148
debate on the bill lo authorize a loan for the
of Ihe Ci^ of Waahington
bill f
Loring, Tiraal, repwt on the petition 0^ read
report agreed to - - . . -
bill for relief of, preaentad, read twice, and
840
318
ordered to be engroaed - . - . ;
read third tim^ and paiaed - - - '.
Lynan, Mr. 8., lemarks o^ on the Treaty with
Great Britain I
on Ihe reaolnlkm for carrying the Treaty into
eflect ' 1
Lyman, Mr. W., remarka at, tm the Treaty with
Great Britain '
Lyon, Matthew, petition ot, complaining of the
nndne election of larael Smith, rdened to
the Committee of Elediona - - - 1
report of the committee . - - - ;
debate on the report • - 316.330,836,1
a flavor of the pretanaioru of^ pr»-
Electiona SSI
eeoaideralion of Ihe report of the Committee
of Electiona on the pclilion of, poa^wned - 1404
connleration naumed and again poa^wned - I46S
eoniidfration of Iha report reaaiiHd . - 1496
Mr. Hmith declared entitled to bia ant - 1498
. (See dao Smiti, hrad.)
.dbyGOOgle
INDEX TO KBBATIS AJtO PHOCBBDINGfl IW THE HOOBG.
ZHT
M. J>>g«.
Ibcomb ic Edgar, Means., menuritt o( telened
to tha Committee on Claiim ■ . - 1860
MuiuoD, Mr., remaAi ot, tm the unprMment of
AmciiieaD aeameii - - ■ - - SS9
on Northntatem Land Office* ... 414
on the Treatf with Great Britain - - 437
on the Menage of the Preodeul in annmr to
a reaolutiDn of the Houae calliDg <i>r cer-
tain papers relatrre to die late Trtatj inth
Great Britain ----- 778
on the iHli ropplementaiy to the act to pro>
Tide a Nan] Armament - - S77, 86B
on the bill to regulate inlovourae witti the In-
fiuitiiba 89e
OD the reaolulkni forearrTinglheTrwIir'rith
Gr«al Brilab into eOect - - - - 976
on the admiadon of Tennaaaen - - - laos
HaBa, reaolutim reapecting Iha irregolarit; of the
Sootbeni, agrsed to - - . - 413
Hnn^ reaolnliMi to anlhorin the Pmadent to
iMiae • anrtc^ of At post-road from Maine
to Geoisia, laid an (he taUe - - ■ 397
tAan up and debated - - . . si4
committee appointed to bring in a Mil purm-
ant fliereto -■---. gjo
action on the bill in Committee of the Whole 1406
Inll puaed - 11|&
Nanhala, jaron, Ac, conaideration of the bill
nuking addltitnial compaualion to - - 1469
bill pasacd
Ifarjland, Ull declaring the eoiuent of Congreas
to 8 certain act of the Btate o^ preaanted,
and passed -...-.
■ amended b; the Senate - - .. .
MtnaebtiBetts, resolution declaring the consent of
Congress to an act of the Stale of, im-
posing tonnage duty on certain veaaela
bid for aid pnrpoae read twice, and referred
to Committee of [hs Whole -
Members of Congreaa, bill relatlTe to the compen-
sBEi<m o^ presented - . . .
conaideraCioa of the HIl .....
, bill recomnntted - . . . . 3^7
sandi7 motions to amend the bill
ordered to be engrossed - - - ..
I«»d
amended by tbe Benate - - _ _
Message from the President, accompanTing a letter
fivm tbe French Miniater, on the preaenta-
tion to the United States of the French
«^
respecting a pmnanent seat of QoTemment - 38S
ti(nsaiit£]g an offidal statement of eipendi-
in relation to Ae copper cob of the Uniled
transmitting acta of certain Statts
tranamitCng a letter from QoremoT Blonnt
rdatS*E to the design of liertain persons to
take poesesalon of the Cbsrokee lands
(nOMiildng the ratifiestian of the Treaty
MdiOrHt Britain- - . . _
in ■nsmt to the reeolation calling fbr a copy
ef the instmctions to the MlnlMer who ne-
gotiated Ow Tre^j with Great BritaiD . 760
CoWmnninatlng a copy of die Treaty wiih
roik <niHk>
Measage from the PreiidGn^ transmitting the trana-
lation of a letter fiom the French Hinialer
to the Scoetary of Slate, with the answer
thereto BOl
eonunonicafiog a wpj of be Trea^ with
Spain Ml
communicating a copy of the Constilotion
and fona of Government of the Stale of
Tennenee - HS
req)ecling tbe extension of the civil anthoiity
of the Northwestern Territory to the posts
of Detroit and Michilimackinsc - • U&9
Mililaiy appropriations, report on the Mibject o^
relerred to the Committee of ibe Whale • 1391
resolution reported by the Committee of the
Whole H«4
tsll making, reported .... 1466
debate therran ...... 1476
bill ordered to be eagrossed ... 1486
passed 1488
Senate smendmcnts agreed to - - - 1616
Military Eatsblidiment, resolution reported msking
a partial appropriatiDn for the, for the year
seventeen hundred and niueQ-sii - - 394
committee ippianted to bring in a bill puira-
ant to said resolutioD ^ - - - 3H
bill read firat and second time - - - 409
ordered to be engroffied ... - 416
paved 4M
T^ort respecting the alto-atiotu riecessary to
be nude in the present - - - .801
OHindenilion of the report - . . - 906
■ bill mdered to be brought in - - - 9lt
a bill for filing the, presented, tesd twice,
and referred to commiltee ... lOtS
bill amended - tSM
pasaed 1S93
amended by tbe Scoate - - - -1117
debate on the amendtucota - - - - I41S
amendment retaining the whole numbef of
lig^t dragoons negatived - . - 1411
amendment retaining the Major General ne-
getired 1**3
amendment extending the term of enlistment
agreed to M«
Senate insist on thai amendmenti - - '4SS
amendments roconiiderad - - - . \4t8
report of the committee of confarenoe ap-
pointed on the amendmcnla ... I4Gt
resolntioD calling upon the Seoetaiy of the
Treasury for a statement of the moncTsei.
pended on account of^ each year, from the
comnienoement of the Ooretnntant to Jan-
nary 1st, 1796, adopted ... 1489
Mililvy aerrice^ resolution relafire to amara fat,
Tsferrsd to Committee on ClaiiM . - US
bill reported regulating grants of lands *f-
pn^tedibr ..... IMS
Ull atwnded - I»r6
fiirlher amended and ordenj to a fluid rtad-
ing ISSt
paasd 1386
Senate auMndmsnls refined to a adsd (aii>-
mltlee, one agreed to, and one disagreed to 1W7
Senate inaiat upon their amendment and tho
Hoose recede fimn their dissgreemoBt - I4S0
Militia, IhU for orgaoivng the, reported . MC
Min^ P*P>rs relative to, received, read, atA or-
Jarad to be printed ' - - - IM
.dbyGOOgle
INDEX TO DEBATES AND PB0CEEDING8 IN THE HOOBE.
Hiol, oftitDBte of the eipenMa of ^ - . ■ H>
Hct Goneeroiiig the, rectived for concorrence HIT
referred to the Mint Committee - - -1418
Mnended'bj the Hooee . . - . IllS
peieed U«
Moore, Ht., remuka a^ on the ranlutiiin for car-
lying Treat; wilh Great Britun into effect IISI
Niimy, Mr., remark* o( in the cese of Roodall
* Whitney
hi> terttmoDy in the cl
SOI
remarks of, on the Treaty with Great Britun 664
on the bill for protection of American aeamen - 804
on the bill to sathoriie s loan for tbe nee of
the City of Washington ' - - - 884
Hyen, Moaes, report on the petition o( praying
reimbunenieDt of duties - . . - 1309
bin foi relief of, reported ■ - - - IMS
pued 1»8
rejected by the Senate .... 1415
H.
Natal AmuiDent, reeolutiona relative to the, laid
on tbe table 184, 3)8
Offieen and Soldien, Mil for idief ofcertaiD, tM^
twice and comEnitled - ■ . -
M'dered to be engroaaed . . . > :
psBed
Ohio Landi, resolution irf' Mr. HeiiddMa in rel*.
tionto , . I
referred to committee . - - • 1
report of tbe eommittee - - - - 1
Dntlawiy. debate on the UU from the Senate to re-
gulate proceadingi in - - - -
reaolntuvn authorizing tiie Preadent to nu'
peiid procaediDgi under the act to provide a
resolution calling on the Secretary of War fi>r
a itat«meDt of the aum» eipcoded on ae*
count of the - - - - - '
a bill supplementary to the act to provide a,
recet'ved for concurrence - - I
conndecation of the toll - - - 8B9 to I
motion to strike out the first clause negatived t
an iddilional cIsoh proposed and debated ' I
bill amended, and oideted to third reading - I
Negroes, resolotiou reqp«cting.the kidnappiag of^
preaonted, and agreed to - - - II
Newcaatle, (Delaware,) memorial from inhalntants
otreferred to Uie Secretary of the Treasury I
Newspapers, order tor fumialiing meoibera with -
New York, memorial of sundry dtiiens of, ask-
ing indenmification for propsi^ taken by
Britiih icssels, preeented . . -
an address from certain merchants and under'
wrilen <^, cmnplaining of Briti^ depreda-
tions, presented . . - - -
Nicholas. Mr., remarks of, on flie Treaty with
Great BriUin
on the bill to autboriie a loan ibr the use of
the City of Washington • . - I
•on the bill nippleinentary to the act to pro-
Tide a Naval Armament - - - I
on theresoluliatifbr carrying the Treatf with
Great Britain into eaad ' - 1004 to II
on tbe admiMion of Tennesase - - - II
Nordtweatem Lands, atDmdmenls of Ou Senate to
kallanthotiring tlMsaleot raadandra&irred 11
Nnthvestarn Tetrilary, yetilka* from certain per-
sons nqneaiing landa '- — '- — * '- ■"--
Cotnmitlee oTCluma
felitiim raUthe lo oertaiD
permisHMi to impMt daTaa into tl
tory, read and refemd -
rvpoci on said petition
Message of the President relative to the ei-
lensiui of the civil aniliOTi^ of the Teni-
ritr of the Teni-
tfL4iilmi*^kinftw 1
Page, Mr., remarks o4 on the Treaty with Great
Britain .-__-_ C56
on reaolation tbr carrying Treaty intoefiect - 1D97
PaAer, Mr., remarka of] on the bill supplementary
to the act to provide a Naval Armament - 875
Passports, lull &om die Senate for providing, for
ships and vessels of the United States, re«d I38fi
Senate ImU reseeled, and Committee of Com-
meree and Mannfactarea InstmOad to biiiig
in a new bill 140S
new bill reported - . . - . 1417
is ordered to be engroesed .... 14B0
pused I4M
Senate amendments agreed to ... 1487
Fay of the Army, a committee q>p(Hnted to inqtiin
whether the tsw respeeting the pay of the
JVim; bag been complied with - . - 8O0
report of the committee ... - 808
Penal Code, discuiaian on a reaolation reepecCing
the 186
Pension List, bill euthoriang tbe Secretaiy of War
to place certain persons on the, presented - 786
passed 798
Petit, Charles, memoiiBlo^ laid on the table - 188
Ports of Entry and Delivery, repiMs bam the Com-
merce and Maaufsdans on sundry peti-
tions respecting the eetablishmsnt of • ISH
bill for the establishment ot, reported - - 1S98
Post Office, committee appointed to inquire and
rrpoit what sllerationi are ueeeaasry in the
Poet Office Uw ISO
report of the committee . - . - 8G6
report referred to a select committM - - I3B8
a HU in addition to the act for the establish-
ment 0^ reported 1340
bill amended 138&
amendments cotisideied, and the Inll ordered
to be engroaed 1886
motion to recommit negatived, and the bill
passed 1892
Sraale postpone tbe considentioa of the bill
to tbe next session ISSS
Post Road, resolntiDn reflecting a survey of the
post road from Maine lo Georgia laid on
the table S97
taken up and debated - . . . 314
committee ^pobled to bring in a trill poran-
ant thereto ----- . 816
action on the bill in Committee of the Whole 1406
bill passed 1416
Pnridaa^ ccKnmittce appointed to wait on him,
and request certain papers relative (o the
Treaty lately eoncluded with Great Britain 801
report of the committee .... BOl
emunitlee appointed to wait og him, and in-
fcmhinafthaialendedai^ogiiinwat - 1474
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INDEX TO DEBATES AND PBOCEEOmCW Ilf THE HOUBE.
PreakUn^ eranmitlM ^^xiuied to wait on h
rapoTt of the commitlee
Preadsnl'i Metitge. (8m Meitage. )
PnMon, Mr, i«naria o^ on the rMoludon fn-c
rjing tha Ti«&t; with Gt«at Britain i
- I3SS
Ptbm, rcBolntionnlstiTe t« the Mb o( within the
United Statea, bf tomga vomitUi, laid on
the table - - 13SS
taken up, bill leported pnreaanE thereto, read
twice, and committed . - - - 1339
debate OD tlie bill 1340
bill paaed IMS
conaidentioD of the Senate's amendmeala to
' the bill poatponed to the next aeaeion - IU9
FoUic Credit, a bill, in addition to the act m«
proTudoD for the rapport of, praMiled
PnUicDebt, reportoftbe Comiiiittee of Weya and
Meaas, sad sundir leaolutions Tcapecting
thc^ nsd twice and committed
lemlulionB amended, and a bill parraant
tbeieta ordered to be bion^t in • - , :
QnacantiDe, resolution to aulhariza tha President
to direct quarantine to be perfnimed on all
Tsssnla frran ford^ countries, arriving in
the porta of the United States, refened to
the Committee of Commerce and Mann-
fwsturea - 133B
bill for the regolation of, read twice and com-
mitted 1839
lebill
debate on the n
section of the bill - - - -
motion carried, and the bill ordered to be ei
1347
Randall, Robert, case of, introduced - - . 166
^^irehended b; ordei of (he House • ' - 160
committee sppoi'.ted to report a proper mode
of proceeding in the case ... 170
report ofthe commitlee .... 171
appear! before the House .... 173
further consideration ofthe case ... 170
a letter from, staling hia inabili^ to ptocnra
eonnsel at present ■ - - . . lU
farther conaiilenlion of the case - - ISS to IBS
r^Kirt ofthe committee amended and agreed (a IM
written eridence in th« case ... soo
trial before the House .... so6
speech of bis cootuel in hi* defoioe - 319 to SIS
repriioanded and reiMnmitted to custody till
farther orders ..... jso
petition from, pfKjiiv his relesss, jnaented - SST
petitiira granted ..... S44
Recdpts and Expenditore^ sammai; statement of 994
Beed, Mr., remarks 0^ on the Treaty with Omt
Britain 609
Ssimbnraement of Dalit*, report on the sabject of 1S03
Regjaters of Slips, nporta on the petitions of sun-
dry merchant^ praying r^ef from duties
incurred In conaeqnence of their registera
haTtng become invalid .... 316
a bill for their reHcf presented, read twice, and
of Committee of Fririlegea in the caae of
' MeasBS. Gudq and Frelir^nyaen •
on the subject of die non ezportsti<Hi of laead-
stufii
ou the petition of Catherine Oreeoe • - I'
Reports, motion for reprinting, for the use of man-
bars^ sll the reports from the Heads of De-
Senate amendment* agmd to - • • 1
Ridtards, John, petitioD of fUiming s sest in the
HoDie, re&ired to Committee of ElectioDS
report of the committSB . ... I
debate on the nipoit .--.-'
npOTt recommitted .....
committee report thai he was duly elected, snd
report laid on the table ....
an abstract of the nport . . . -
qualifies and takea hu seat ....
Boad fiom Maine to Georgia, bill toeoableOePra-
sident to cause tobe examined and saneyed
the post road from Wiscaisel to SaTannah,
amended and reported to the House - - I
bill passed . - - . . . 1
Rulherfbrd, Mr, remarks of; on the Treaty with
Ornat Britain ... . . .
on the resolntion En carrying the Trea^ into
Salaries, reaolntioa for the increaae et the slaries
of certam pnblic officcra, laid on the taUe - 1313
taken np and debated .... 1330
adopted 1337
bill purauBOtlher^o preaented and coBunitled 1488
amraded --....- ISTS
blanks in the UU filled np ■ - - -1383
bill passed 13M
Salt Springs ofthe United Stataa, bill euthniiii^
(he Seoetaiy of the Treasury to leaae cer-
tain, r^orted ..... iMt
rqected by the Senate . - . .
Seamen. (Bee Amerieaa Seanun.)
Seara, John, cue of .....
Seat of Goramment, Preaidenl's Message reqiect-
iag the, referred to a sdect committee
constderationof the report . - - .
resolution aothoriBng the Pnodent to borrow
morwy Ibr comi^edng the paUic bailAiiga
at the •
Sedgwick, Hr., testimony at, in the case of Robert
Randall
his written tttstiinrmj in the case ...
remarks of, on the Trea^ with Great Britain
on the bill supplenmlaiy to the bill to provide
aNartl '
1488
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XX.1X
INDSX TO DRBATES AND PROCEEDINGS IN THE H0U8B.
P«ge.
Badgw ck. Mr . ramirlu of, on Ihs Ull lo regnlale
■Dteicouns wLlh the IndidD thba - BOO
on the li'ill makins proriiiiaa for a pait of Ihe
debt due the Dank nf the United Sum - SIB
BaTga>at«t ■imi, appoinlmont of ' - - 1ST
•undi7 rew'utioiiB miking ■ddUiontI allow-
sncBi b> the Ssrifcant •i-umv cleHui &^t
propLHsH and jklop^r^ . , - - 1&16
Ship* and Veve'a. (Sre Piufmrlt.)
Kl«, J. K , report on the petilion at, read - - 31 1
report agreed 'o ^ ^ . - -> 813
biit rorthDiBliefof.pinBnla], read tirice, and
lilted
ordered lo be eiigiwed . - - -
read a third lime and panod - . -
BuAing Fund, report of the Commiinonen of tbe,
read and orilered til be printed -
Sitjrea*e^ Mr , reoiarka of; on the bill aolhor-
iiing a loan for the uie of the citjr of Waih-
ingtoD 837. 886
on tlMi adnuMOQ of Tonneuee - - -
Bhm, pBiilion requeaUng permiiaion to imp(Ht
alaie into the NorthweaternTenitoi;l>oin
the olber '■lalei, read and refened '
•dferae repntt on the petition - . . 1348
Bautti, larael, peittian comp'^ning of Ihe undoa
dedioa id, nbired to the CosumltM of
Bleotion* - - - - - -
lepoit of the
and laCnred •
fiuther report reapeetipg dM nlHelinw o( lud
on the table - - . . . • 1374
rapoTt ccMiMduied and pmtponed - I4S4, 1468
oonaidBialhni of the repoit naonad ' • 14BS
naolubon dee^aring bin uiliiled lo hia aea^
propoaed and adopMd . - . . I4B8
Baoilh, Mr. W., tealimoaj of, id the eaaaof Ro-
Pen-
Smith, laaac, ranurfca o^ on (be Trea^ wUk
Great Britain ..... 6SB
Ml the aaolntion for caujing the Tceitf into
(Act 1167
Bnnff, peljticn complaining of the preeent exdae
law regarding manu&clu red anu^ read and
. lefernd ...... ISO
other petiliooa on aame anbject, read and n-
fiirred 171, 338
bill fur diacoDlinuing the drawbada on the
eipoitalioti of, prcaenled ... 1337
politionagainitlhabill, prcaenled - -1298
the bill raeommitted lo a aelect committee - I3S0
bill lapilementarrto the act laying dutie* on,
reported 1388
debate oo the hilt . . 1406 to 141S
reaolution calling on the Secretary of the
Traanirj lo report a mode for collecting the
taion, agnedio 1417
bill fin nupending the dnty on, isportad, read
twice, ord red to be engroaaed, and paMad 1417
Benateairendmentidiaagind to ' . 1487
Bocietj of United Brethren, a bill regulating granta
Inland Tor Ihe, rapoited, nad twice, and
ommitted 867, 184*
Boldiara in the late
Boathem coait, memorial relatlTe to die anrraj o^
lead and refened ■ - . - -
t of tt
170
800
inlheTraa^iaithG Britain 438,480
Ml ua maaBuraa neoaaaty £k laiaing addi'
lional rerenne - . - - . 841
on Ihe LhII auppleinontaiy to Ihe ast to pro-
*idaa Naval Arnuonnt • - STB, UST, 680
oareaolulioD for the Mlmiaaion of TennBHie 1300
on thea:aleorihBBnancea- - • -1498
litb, Mr. a., ramarka at on hia reaolotmn
reapec ing the law* of the United
femarka of, o
re to commerce and navigation - 368
onlhe'J'reaty with Great Brit. in - . 631
on Ihe bill Bupple:iiantBr; lo ihe ad to pnnida
a Naval Armament - . . .874
on the moluliun for carrying the Twal; with
Groat Britain into eSaot - - . ' - 1 103
auith, Mr. ti., remarfca o^ on the Treaty with
Gmt Biitain ..... 4S3
in of^maiiion lo the motion tor going into
eonaJeiation orihe Prajidrnl'a Meaaaga in
■mwer ti> a call of Ihe Houae for oenain
papera retatira to the Trea^ ... 760
on the raaolation lor cHijing the TimIj into
•Beet 1>64
Bnilh, Jeremiah, rama^a o^ oA Uw TVaa^ with
(ireat Britain ..... fiS8
4lh Con 49^
report poatponad to next
Bpaliw eopy of the Treaty with, reoeived and i»-
faned to a Committee of Ihe Whole - SSI
bill for earrjing into elbct the Trea^ widi,
pmented end committed ... lOtt
bill ordered to M engiooed ... 1084
pa>el lOttS
ker, elected - 188
Speeeh (Preaiilent'ii,) moliao ftr preparing a n-
apedfal reply lo - - - - . 1S8
apeedi referred to Conmltlae of the Whole- IM
raaolutiona reapeeliag it, raported and de-
bated 131, 183, IM
Bpolialionac
181
Btanding Rulaa and Orden, commitb
a[qiointed lo
repnt of the commiltea
debate on the rqwrt . . . - . ai«
Committuof iha Whole diacharged fnin far-
ther pniceediaga on the report - - 888
atenben, Baron, bill for aatia^ii^ the daima of
hi* eiecntora, repotted • - . . IH8
ordered to bo engraoaad .... 1468
pewd 1488
Slodbridge Indiana, adverae iqieit on Iba pelitiwi
crfoeitain ISia
StiMhnr, Uenjamin, nport on the petition of, and
bill ordered la be brooght i
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IRBEX TO DEBATBS AND PBOCEEDING8 M THB H01H»^
UmAI Aita, Smala bill far proni'tinn o^ npat
of comituttm lud on the table - - 3U
Intt and repoit tberaon rwyni**— ' - ISIS
nport Imid OB the table • - 13«l
ipfa B., pethioru otumflvuag of die
ODdne election of, pneonted - - • :
reftrred to Commi'tee of ElectinDe
erideiHa in IberaaerelnTEd to ibe commfUee
ooomiittce eik imtnielionB relative to the le-
craring of erideDee with respect to hii ilec-
npart ofthe
leneAs o( od the Tiea^ ntih Goal Britain 41B
on the bill to authwbe a loen to the City of
on tluTatem of direct taiatioD - - - 8H
«D tbe bill iDjiylMiiaileip to Ihe act to )■»•
■ • " ■ ' - 8ft9, am, SB?
TiMl? with Onal Britaia - .9X1^11
eW^ Hr., a« the neolotion tar eanwbc iMo ^
fat Ibe Tnatr with Giaet Biiteia - - II
gyme^ Jcbm Clares leeolnlioD lety eeting a fa—t
•f land poR^iawd by, laid OQ die laUa • 4
iiiiMiiitiii nfiniTTniy-iir-f-nr'^'g'^T
M^aetMaieW* .... 788
neolntkn reaptetbig die taobmst nmit «alh>
bDd raeerrad oat (tf the grant «f '
1*89
UBS
I46fi
atio>, drtiete <M Iha ed^ i« - . -
neeee^ PmideD^a Maa«ge, mnwlMiaf >
c^ of the CooMitniiin mi Sana tt On-
841
893
-uaok jsis
.. .. , iwMMUDittee,Bt
r lading
TemlnrT Sooth of the OUo, veeeiMd te
eoDcarratee HBS
MI) and docnimnta rrialiTe thento refined
•elect oommittea 14tS
report of Hw oommitteB .... |4n
bill for admitliiig the Stete into the Dsioa,
paaeed 1474
BenUe diaigraa to part of tbe bill, mO, on the
Hoow inauling, a committee of eonfenaee
i^poialed IMT
BaiateraiMdo 1489
Tileomb, Colonel B., report on the paliliM o(
leidonOeUUe IW
taken ap, conodered, and laare granlad hiB
to wUidnw hie pepare • - . • 180
IVmj, Ht., remaiki o( on ibe Tnttty tridl Oiaat
Britain fit
on the hill for pioteotian of American teemea 807
<Mi the neolatioa for oRTing Ike Treat; with
Great ^ntein into cdect ... 1913
nMSie^Teeotntian relative to dwexaentiaB of ow-
detate on the nsololien . . 148,991,!
1h«a^. (See BHtith "Rtaty, jMpen, Am! Bri-
tain, Spain, and IntSaat.)
OmAiI Arte, Senete bill fo poMMtioii g( lead
801
nfKMt of the c(
proceeding* thereon - - ■ . . :
TaMet^ Teealalion* inMmcting Conimiltae ib
Commvoe and MannEKtana to inqoiieand
nport on meeiuree nurrewTy for die mbtj
and protection of TcawJe c£ Iha Ulkitad
lepMoflham
of the Whole
eeneMamio* of 'he report -
liH tar eeeertaining a anil
Mfa'aliog, reported
Mider-d to be engroeMd
WbMney, (:hariei,naciiitiandireelingdiea>
Kof 1S9
- 178
. ITt
of prooreding in the Eeae of •
v^ott of the eiaomittn
•DnwlfTMion of the eaao -
hie dcfaw« befete ttw Hoom
liinhcr oonulention . f the can - 188, MO, S>t
leeeluiontodjadtargebimfrom enetedj - SM
S)3
letter and ptnitioci fion, laid so the lahla
(See aleo Grttae, Gaurot.)
.dbyGoogle
INDEX TO DEBATES AND PBOCEEDINC8 IH THE HOUSE.
XXXIT
Widow* Htd orpluni, raralatioa nportad by the
CoDunittee oT Glwma, for sxteDding th«
beneSt of the ad cif Jam 7, 17M, to Um
widowi uid childrmi of offiooi wbo died of
wouoda rsraiied in the Unilad StatM mT'
Ticedncg Mirch 4, 1789 . . - i
bill panuant thsreto pranoted md paasd -
WiUiaoM, Mr., remarkB of, oa tba Trea'y with
Gremt Biitiin .....
on Ibo rsaolntioa far onjing tha Tna^ into
a tho bill lopplBmanta] to the aot to prorida
Praajdent for a ecqijr of the
Hm Mioutar who aagodalad the l«le Tnaty
with Oreat Btitun ....
on Mr. Biount'a reaolntioiu - - 78t, 788
on the pMNgs of ihabiU Ibrlba nlMand pra-
Uii liiiii iif rtiiiiiiimi ■■iimii ...
oti tba bUI to aniborin a loan for tba imb «f
Hw Citj'of WaAington
Ml the motkn to atrika o«t the Otat ehnaa at
tbe bill aopplanMatar; to the act to frorida
• If and Armaiaaal - - - . SM
id Nan oi
■gerfuidbill - - BBS
ig reaolulion relaliie to
tha eipBi]iea(7 of canying into cAwt th«
Tratj with Great Britain - - 138S
m the adoption of wd rfaolution ' - ISO!
on the rewlutkin relalira to tha admiMOU of
. Tennamn 18SS
on the roolDtian fw inneaibg the nlaiiea of
certain public olficaia - - . - - ISS7
m the motion foi gran^g lea** for Commit-
tee of the Whole to nl again apon the n-
port relotiie to the stale of the fortification^
mililarj alorea, &c. .... 1879
on the l»ll making additional allowaucea to
eertaiii public officers ... - I88i
at the 8an«lo to the Ml ibr altering the
eeinpaDMtianof theAeeoanlantaf the War
Departmco^ UlS
on an ameodraent to the bill foi tha adiDi>>
aJonofTwuMMaa UTS
jiiizo ynn
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